wholesome severity reconciled with christian liberty, or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience here you have the question stated, the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved and also confirmed from scripture and the testimonies of divines, yea of whole churches : the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent, the compassionate samaritane, m.s. to a.s. &c., examined : eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter : and in conclusion a parænetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather than toleration. gillespie, george, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing g ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; :e , no ) wholesome severity reconciled with christian liberty, or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience here you have the question stated, the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved and also confirmed from scripture and the testimonies of divines, yea of whole churches : the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent, the compassionate samaritane, m.s. to a.s. &c., examined : eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter : and in conclusion a parænetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather than toleration. gillespie, george, - . [ ], p. printed for christopher meredith ..., london : . attributed to george gillespie. cf. blc. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng williams, roger, ?- . -- bloody tenent yet more bloody. walwyn, william, - . -- compassionate samaritane. liberty of conscience. freedom of religion -- england. a r (wing g ). civilwar no vvholsome severity reconciled with christian liberty. or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience. he gillespie, george f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vvholsome severity reconciled with christian liberty . or , the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience . here you have the question stated , the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved , and also confirmed from scripture , and the testimonies of divines , yea of whole churches : the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent , the compassionate samaritane , m. s. to a. s. &c. examined . eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter . and in conclusion a paraenetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather then toleration . imprimatur . ia. cranford . decemb. . . august . contra primam gaudentii epist. c. . absit autem ut ista persecutio dicenda sit hominum , cum sit potius pro hominibus liberandis persecutio vitiorum , qualem facit aegris etiam diligentia medicorum . idem contra epist. parmen. lib. . cap. . prius enim preb●●● se non esse haereticos vel schismaticos , ●●…m demum de indignis poenis suis lividam emittant vocem , &c. nos corporum persecutores vocant , se animarum interfectores non vocant . london , printed for christopher meredith , and are to be sold at the signe of the crane in pauls churchyard . . to the christian and courteous reader . it cannot be unknown to any , except such as are ignorant of satans devices , and altogether strangers to the histories of former times , that when ▪ the church commeth out of idolatry , and out of bitter servitude and grievous pressures of conscience , all her storms are not over her head , but she begins to be assaulted and afflicted more then before with heresies , schismes , and home-bred disturbances . which through the manifold wisdome and over-ruling dispensation of god , who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will , is englands lot this day , that this may be to those in whom the lord hath no pleasure , a stone of stumbling , and a rock of offence , that they may goe and fall backward , and be broken ; & snared , and taken : that others , who are approved , may be made manifest ; yea , that many may be purified , and tried , and made white ; and that in the issue god may have the greater glory in making a soveraign remedy out of poysonfull ingredients , and his people may say , blessed be the lord god of israel who only doth wondrous things . but now will the sectaries be contented ( as christs witnesses in former times were ) to be examined and judged according to the word of god , and if they be found to be what they are accused to be , then to suffer accordingly ? nay , if so , they fear they shall run too great a hazard . therefore they cry out for toleration and liberty of conscience , hereby going about not only themselves to fish in troubled waters , but to improve at once the manifold advantages of sympathising with the principles of the most part of men amongst us ; for as it is a common plea and bond of union among all hereticks and sectaries , how many soever their divisions and subdivisions be among themselves ; yea , they give ( in this ) the right hand of fellowship to the prelaticall ▪ and malignant party , for they also put in for liberty of conscience : and as carnall and prophane men desire nothing more then that they may not be compelled to any religious duty , but permitted to doe what seem good in their own eies . so liberty of conscience is a sweet and taking word among the lesse discerning sort of godly people , newly come out of the house of bondage , out of the popish and prelaticall tyranny ; i say the lesse discerning sort , because those of the godly who have their senses exercised to discern good and evill , know that liberty of heresie and schisme is no part of the liberty of conscience which christ hath purchased to us at so dear a rate . but is there no golden hook and taking bait for the magistrate ? yes sure ; for his part he is told that he may punish any breach of peace or civill justice , or a trespasse against the state and against civill authority , but yet not put forth his power against any man for heresie or schisme , being matters of religion and of conscience . as if both polititians and divines had been in a great error when they said that the end and use of magistracy is to make bonum hominem , as well as bonum civem , a good man as well as a good commonwealths man . shall i adde further , that all who wish well to the publike from principles either of religion or policy , want not here their own tentations , perswading to a toleration of sectaries , in regard of the necessity of an union against the common adversary , and the great hazard , if not certain ruine , of the cause , by our own ruptures ? vnder these fair colours and handsome pretexts doe sectaries infuse their poyson , i mean their pernicious , god-provoking , truth-defacing , church ruinating , & state-shaking toleration . the plain english of the question is this : whether the christian magistrate be keeper of both tables : whether he ought to suppresse his own enemies , but not gods enemies , and preserve his own ordinances , but not christs ordinances frō violation . whether the troublers of israel may be troubled . whether the wilde boars and beasts of the forest must have leave to break down the hedges of the lords vineyard ; and whether ravening wolves in sheeps clothing must be permitted to converse freely in the flock of christ . whether after the black devil of idolatry and tyranny is trod under our feet , a white devill of heresie and schisme , under the name of tender consciences , must be admitted to walk up and down among us . whether not only pious and peaceable men , ( whom i shall never consent to persecute ) but those also who are as a pestilence ▪ or a gangrene in the body of christ , men of corrupt minds and turbulent spirits , who draw factions after them , make a breach and rent in israel , resist the truth and reformation of religion , spread abroad all the ways they can their pernicious errors , and by no other means can be reduced ; whether those also ought to be spared and let alone . i have endeavoured in this following discourse to vindicate the lawfull , yea necessary use of the coercive power of the christian magistrate in suppressing and punishing hereticks and sectaries , according as the degree of their offence and of the churches danger shal require : which when i had done , there came to my hands a book called the storming of antichrist . indeed , the recruting of antichrist , and the storming of zion , ( if so be that i may anabaptize an anabaptists book ) take one passage for instance , pa. . and for papists , saith he , though they are least to be borne of all others , because of the uncertainty of their keeping faith with hereticks , as they call us , and because they may be absolved of securements that can arise from the just solemn oaths , and because of their cruelty against the protestants in divers countries where they get the upper hand , and because they are profest idolaters , yet may they be born with ( as i suppose with submission to better judgments ) in protestant government , in point of religion , because we have no command to root out any for conscience , &c. why then ? is this to storm antichrist ? or is it not rather a storming of this party , in the prevailing whereof god will have far more glory then in the prevailing of the popish and prelaticall party , as himself speaketh , pa. . and if he will storm , sure some of his ladders are too short . if any one rail against christ ( saith he , p. . ) or deny the scriptures to be his word , or affirm the epistles to be only letters written to particular churches , and no rule for us , and so unsettle our faith , this i take may be punished by the magistrate , because all or most nations in the world doe it . that all the nations ▪ in the world doe punish for these things , i am yet to learn : and those that doe , doe they not also punish men for other ways of unsetling the grounds of faith besides these ? the declining of some of the epistles as being letters written upon particular occasions , and no rule for us , is an error which hath been pretended to be no lesse conscientious then those errors which now he will have indulged . lastly , if he would needs storm , why would be not make some new breach ? i find no materiall arguments in him for liberty of conscience , but what i found before in the bloudy tenent , the compassionate samaritane , and m. s. to a. s. so that my ensuing answers to them shall serve his turn . and now reader buy the truth , and sell it not . search for knowledge as for hid treasures . if thou readest with a unprejudiced mind , i dare promise thee through gods blessing a satisfied mind . the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience . concerning this question there are three opinions ; two extreams , and one in the middle . so it is resolved not only by d. voctius , in his late disputations de libertate conscientiae , but long before by calvin , in his refutation of the errours of servetus , where he disputeth this very question , whether christian judges may lawfully punish hereticks . the first opinion is that of the papists , who hold it to be not only no sin , but good service to god , to extirpate by fire and sword , all that are adversaries to , or opposers of the church and catholick religion . upon this ground gregorius de valentia tells us there were . of the albigenses burnt under pope innocentius the third ; and in the councell of constance were burnt john hus and hierome of prague . suarez de triplice virtute , tract. . disp. . sect. . layeth downe these assertions . . that all hereticks who after sufficient instruction and admonition , still persist in their error , are to be without mercy put to death . . that all impenitent hereticks , though they professe to be catholicks , being convict of heresie , are to be put to death . . that relapsing hereticks , though penitent , are to be put to death without mercy . . that it is most probable , that heresiarchs , dogmatists , or the authors of an heresie , though truly penitent , yet are not to be received to favour , but delivered to the civil sword . . that a heretick who hath not relapsed , if before sentence past against him , he convert of his owne accord , he is not to bee punished with death , but with some smaller punishment , such as perpetuall imprisonment , or the like . ibid. tract. . disp. . sect. . hee saith , that schismaticks may be punished with almost all the punishments of hereticks . azor. institut . moral . tom. . lib. . cap. . vtrique verò , tum relapsi , tum alii , quando pertinaces sunt , vivi igne exuruntur : si verò pertinaces non sint , prius strangulari solent , & postea comburi . see the like , becan . summa part . . tract. . quaest. . & . turrian . in am ● disp. . dub . . some of them also maintaine the compelling of infidels to be baptized , as scotus in lib. . sent. dist. . quaest. . and they who follow him . the second opinion doth fall short , as farre as the former doth exceed : that is , that the magistrate ought not to inflict any punishment , nor put forth any coercive power uppon hereticks or sectaries , but on the contrary grant them liberty and toleration . this was the opinion of the donatists , against which augustine hath written both much and well , in divers places : though himselfe was once in the same error , till he did take the matter into his second and better thoughts , as is evident by his retractations , lib. . cap. . & epist. . in the same error are the socinians and arminians . see peltii harmonia , artic. . nic. bodecher . sociniano . remonstrantismus . cap. . see also grotii apologeticus , cap. . pag. . theoph. nicolaid . refut . tractat. de ecclesia , cap. . p. . the very same is maintained in some bookes printed amongst our selves in this yeare of confusion : viz. the bloudy tenent : liberty of conscience : the compassionate samaritan : john the baptist : and by mr. goodwin in his ●eomaxia , pag. . and in his innocencies triumph , pag. . in which places he denyeth that the magistrate , and particularly that the two houses of parliament may impose any thing pertaining to the service and worship of god under mulcts or penalties . so m. s. to a. s. pag. . . . &c. disputeth against the coercive power of the magistrate to suppresse heresies and sects . this power the presbyterians doe ascribe to the magistrate , as i shall shew by and by : therefore i still averre , that m. goodwin in denying and opposing this power , doth herein ( as in divers other particulars ) ascribe much lesse to the magistrate then the presbyterians doe : which overthroweth that insinuation of the five apologists pag. . the third opinion is , that the magistrate may and ought to exercise his coercive power , in suppressing and punishing hereticks and sectaries , lesse or more , according as the nature and degree of the error , schisme , obstinacy , and danger of seducing others , doth require . this as it was the judgement of the orthodox ancients , ( vide optati opera , edit. albaspin . pag. . . ) so it is followed by our soundest protestant writers ; most largely by beza against bellius and monfortius , in a peculiar treatise de haereticis à magistratu puniendis . and though gerhard , * brochmand , and other lutheran writers , make a controversie where they need not , alledging that the calvinists ( so nicknamed ) hold as the papists doe , that all hereticks without distinction are to be put to death : the truth is , they themselves say as much as either calvin or beza , or any other whom they take for adversaries in this question , that is , that hereticks are to be punished by mulcts , imprisonments , banishments , and if they be grosse idolaters or blasphemers , and seducers of others , then to be put to death . what is it else that calvin teacheth , when he distinguisheth three kindes of errors : some to be tolerated with a spirit of meeknesse , and such as ought not to separate betwixt brethren : others not to be tolerated , but to be suppressed with a certaine degree of severity : a third sort so abominable and pestiferous , that they are to be cut off by the highest punishments ? and lest it be thought that this is but the opinion of some few , that the magistrate ought thus by a strong hand , and by civill punishments suppresse hereticks and sectaries : let it be observed what is held forth and professed concerning this businesse , by the reformed churches in their publicke confessions of faith . in the latter confession of helvetia , cap. . it is said that the magistrate ought to root out lies and all superstition , with all impiety and idolatry . and after ; let him suppresse stubborne hereticks . in the french confession , art . . therefore he hath also delivered the sword into the hands of the magistrates , to wit , that offences may be repressed , not only those which are committed against the second table , but also against the first . in the belgick confession , art . . therefore hath he armed the magistrate with the sword for punishing them that doe evill , and for defending such as doe well . moreover it is their duty not only to be carefull and watchfull for the preservation of the civill government , but also to defend the holy ministery , and to abolish and overthrow all idolatry , and counterfeit worship of god . beza de haeret , à magistr. . puniend , tells us in the beginning , that the ministers of helvetia had declared themselves to be of the same judgement , in a booke published of that argument . and toward the end he citeth the saxon confession , luther , melancthon , brentius , bucerus , wolfangus capito , and bullinger . the synod of dort , ses . . in their sentence against the remonstrants doth not only interdict them of all their ecclesiasticall and academicall functions , but also beseech the states generall by the secular power further to suppresse and restrain them . the arguments whereby this third or middle opinion is confirmed ( that we may not build upon humane authority ) are these . first , the law , deut. . , , , . concerning the stoning and killing of him , who shall secretly intice people , saying , let us go after other gods . if it be said , that this law did bind the jews only , and is not morall nor perpetuall . i answer , jacobus acontius , though he be of another opinion concerning this question then i am , yet he candidly and freely confesseth , that he seeth nothing in that law , which doth not belong to the new testament , as well as the old ; for saith he , the reason and ground of the law , the use and end of it , is morall and perpetuall , ver. . all israel shall hear and fear , and shall doe no more any such wickednesse , as this is among you . but yet , saith acontius , this law doth not concern hereticks , who beleeve and teach errors concerning the true god or his worship ; but only apostates who fall away to other gods : * in this i shall not much contend with him ; only thus far , if apostates are to be stoned and killed according to that law , then surely seducing hereticks are also to receive their measure and proportion of punishment ; the morall equity of the law requireth thus much at least , that if we compare heresy and apostasy together , look how much lesse the evill of sin is in heresy , so much and no more is to be remitted of the evill of punishment , especially the danger of contagion and seducement , being as much or rather more in heresy then in apostasy ; yea , that which is called heresy being oftentimes a reall following after other gods . but the law , deut. . for punishing with death ▪ as well whole cities as particular persons , for falling away to other gods , is not the only law for punishing even capitally grosse sins against the first table . see exod. . . he that sacrificeth unto any god , save unto the lord only , he shall be utterly destroyed , exod. . . every one that defileth the sabbath , shall surely be put to death , levit. ● . . and he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , he shall surely be put to death , deut. . , , ▪ . if there be found among you within any of thy gates , which the lord thy god giveth thee , man or woman , that hath wro●ght wickednesse in the sight of the lord thy god , in transgressing his covenant , and hath gone and served other gods and worshipped them , &c. thou shalt bring forth that man or that woman unto thy gates , even that man or that woman , and shalt stone them with stones till they die . it will be asked , but how doth it appear that these or any other judiciall laws of moses doe at all appertain to us , as rules to guide us in like cases ? i shall wish him who scrupleth this , to read piscator his appendix to his observations upon the , , . chapters of exodus , where he excellently disputeth this question , whether the christian magistrate be bound to observe the judicial laws of moses , as well as the jewish magistrate was . he answereth by the common distinction , he is obliged to those things in the judiciall law which are unchangeable , & common to all nations : but not to those things which are mutable , or proper to the jewish republike . but then he explaineth this distinction , that by things mutable , and proper to the jews , he understandeth the emancipation of an hebrew servant or handmaid in the seventh year , a mans marying his brothers wife and raising up seed to his brother , the forgiving of debts at the jubilee , marying with one of the same tribe , and if there be any other like to these ; also ceremoniall trespasses , as touching a dead body , &c. but things immutable , and common to all nations are the laws concerning morall trespasses , sins against the morall law , as murther , adultery , theft , enticing away from god , blasphemy , striking of parents . now that the christian magistrate is bound to observe these judiciall lawes of moses which appoint the punishments of sins against the morall law , he proveth by these reasons . . if it were not so , then it is free and arbitrary to the magistrate to appoint what punishments himself pleaseth . but this is not arbitrary to him , for he is the minister of god , rom. . . and the judgement is the lords , deut. . . chron. . . and if the magistrate be keeper of both tables , he must keep them in such manner as god hath delivered them to him . . christs words , mat. . . think not that i am come to destroy the law or the prophets , i am not come to destroy , but to fulfill , are comprehensive of the judiciall law , it being a part of the law of moses ; now he could not fulfill the judiciall law , except either by his practice , or by teaching others still to observe it ; not by his own practice , for he would not condemn the adulteresse , joh. . . nor divide the inheritance , luke . , . therefore it must be by his doctrine for our observing it . . if christ in his sermon , mat. . would teach that the morall law belongeth to us christians , in so much as he vindicateth it from the false glosses of the scribes & pharisees ; then he meant to hold forth the judiciall law concerning morall trespasses as belonging to us also : for he vindicateth and interpreteth the judiciall law , as well as the morall , mat. . . an eye for an eye , &c. . if god would have the morall law transmitted from the jewish people to the christian people ; then he would also have the judiciall law transmitted from the jewish magistrate to the christian magistrate : there being the same reason of immutability in the punishments , which is in the offences ; idolatry and adultery displeaseth god now as much as then ; and theft displeaseth god now no more then before . . whatsoever things were written af●retime , were written for our learning , rom. . . and what shall the christian magistrate learn from those judiciall laws , but the will of god to be his rule in like cases ? the ceremoniall law was written for our learning , that we might know the fulfilling of all those types , but the judiciall law was not typicall . . doe all to the glory of god , cor. . . mat. . . how shall christian magistrates glorifie god more then by observing gods own laws , as most just , and such as they cannot make better ? . whatsoever is not of faith is sin , rom. . . now when the christian magistrate punisheth sins against the morall law , if he doe this in faith and in assurance of pleasing god , he must have his assurance from the word of god , for faith can build upon no other foundation : it is the word which must assure the conscience , god hath commanded such a thing , therefore it is my duty to doe it , god hath not forbidden such a thing , therefore i am free to doe it . but the will of god concerning civill justice and punishments is no where so fully and cleerly revealed as in the judiciall law of moses . this therefore must be the surest prop and stay to the conscience of the christian magistrate . these are not my reasons ( if it be not a word or two added by way of explaining and strengthning ) but the substance of piscators reasons : unto which i adde , . though we have clear and full scriptures in the new testament for abolishing the ceremoniall law yet we no where reade in all the new testament of the abolishing of the judicial law , so far as it did concern the punishing of sins against the morall law , of which heresy and seducing of souls is one , and a great one . once god did reveal his will for punishing those sins by such and such punishments . he who will hold that the christian magistrate is not bound to inflict such punishments for such sins , is bound to prove that those former lawes of god are abolished , and to shew some scripture for it . . that iudiciall law for having two or three witnesses in judgement , deut. . . heb. . . is transferred even with an obligation to us christians , and it concerneth all judgement , as well ecclesiasticall as civill , mat. . . cor. . . and some other particulars might be instanced in ▪ which are pressed and enforced from the iudiciall law , by some who yet mind not the obligation of it . to conclude therefore this point , though other judiciall or forensecall laws concerning the punishments of sins against the morall law , may , yea , must be allowed of in christian republikes and kingdomes ; provided always , they be not contrary or contradictory to gods own iudiciall laws : yet i fear not to hold with junius , de politia mosis cap. . that he who was punishable by death under that iudiciall law , is punishable by death still ; and he who was not punished by death then , is not to be punished by death now ; and so much for the first argument from the law of god . a second argument we have from divers laudable examples in the old testament ; moses drew the sword against idolaters , exod. . . the children of israel resolved to go out to war against the reubenites and gadites , when they understood that they were building another altar . jos. . . elijah commanded to slay the priests of baal , kings . . in asa his time there was a covenant for putting to death such as would not seek the lord god of their fathers , chro. . . iehu slew the priests of ahab , and the worshippers of baal , kings . . . first , searching and making sure that there were none of the servants of the lord among them , ver. . iosiah sacrificed the priests of samaria upon their own altars , kings . . nebuchadnezzar , though an heathē , being convinced that there was no god like the god of israel , made a decree , that whosoever speaketh blasphemy , or uttereth any error against god , shall be cut in pieces , and their houses made a dunghill , dan. . . as for those whose errors and corruptions in religion were not so great , there was some ( though not the highest ) severity used against them : moses was so angry with the people that were seduced into idolatry , that he burnt the ●alf which they had worshipped , and ground it to powder , and strewed it upon the water , and made the children of israel to drinke of it , exod. . . thereby teaching them ( as hierome and others give the reason ) to abhorre that idolatry , while their idoll did passe from them among their own excrements . asa did remove his mother maachah from being queen , because of an idoll which she had made in a grove , kings . . josiah caused all that were present in jerusalem and benjamin to stand to the covenant . chron. . . which could not be without either threatning or inflicting punishment upon the transgressors ; there being many at that time disaffected to the reformation . o but saith m. s. to a. s. pag. , . idolatry and idolaters were the adaequate object of that coercive power in matters of religion , whereof we reade in the old testament . nor doe we read that ever the iewish kings or magistrates attempted any thing against sectaries or schismaticks . i answer , . the object of that coercive power of josiah , chron. . . was generally the matter of the covenant , that is , the taking away not only of idolatry , but of all abominations , and a walking after the lord , and keeping of his testimonies , and statutes , and commandments , ver. . . nehemiah did drive away the son of eliashib the high priest , not for idolatry , but for marying the daughter of sanballat , and thereby defiling the covenant of the priesthood , nehem. . , . ezra made the chief priests , the levites , and all israel to enter into a covenant and to swear , that they would put away the strange wives , and that it should be done according to the law , ezra . . . and whosoever would not come to ierusalem for this thing , was not only himself excommunicated from the church , but all his goods forfeited . v. . artaxerxes decreed punishment for all who should oppose the law of god , and the building of the temple : wherein he is so far approved , as that ezra blesseth god for it , ezra . , . whosoever will not doe the law of thy god , and the law of the king , let judgement be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or unto banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or imprisonment , &c. which doth not concern idolatry only , but generally the laws of god , v. . set magistrates and iudges which may judge all the people , all such as know the laws of thy god . he who wrote liberty of conscience . p. . . is so far confounded with this laudable decree of artaxerxes , that he can say no more to it , but that it was the commandment of god , not an invention of men which artaxerxes did thus impose , which is as much as we desire . but . sects and schismes are to be punished as well , though not as much as heresy and idolatry . there are degrees of faults , and accordingly degrees of punishments . augustine wrote an epistle to bonifacius upon this occasion , to shew that the donatists had nothing to doe with the arrians , and so were not to be punished with such rigour and severity ; yet he adviseth that moderate mulcts and punishments may be laid upon them , & that their bishops or ministers may be banished . in his epist. he intercedeth most earnestly with the proconsul of africk , that he might not put to death the donatists , but represse them some other ways . we have also a scripture example for punishing sectaries who are not hereticks . it is agreed among interpreters , there were in iudah two sorts of high places , some on which god was worshipped , others on which idols were worshipped , & it is most manifest from chro. . . and from the reconciling of chro. . . with ch. . . . the one sort was the high places of idolatry , the other , the high places of wil-worship ; yet the priests of the latter , as well as of the former , were punished by iosiah , as tostatus proveth from kings . and the text it self is clear , for he put to death the priests of sama●ia , who had sacrificed in the high places of idolatry , vers. . but as for those who sacrificed in the high places of wil-worship , because they sacrificed to the lord only ( as the word is , chron. . . ) therefore iosiah did not put them to death , only he caused them to goe out of all the cities of judah , and to cease from the priests office , so that they durst not come up to the altar of the lord at jerusalem , only they were permitted to eat of the unleavened bread among their brethren , ver. , . which is parallel to that law , ezek. . ver ▪ , , , , . a prophecy concerning the christian temple , and the times of the new testament , wch reacheth a blow to another silly & short-sighted evasion , used both in the bloudy tenent , and in m. s. to a. s. that all this coercive power exercised in the old testament was typicall , & therefore not imitable now in the new testament . whereunto i further reply , . the reason of all that coercive severity was morall and perpetuall , as was shewed before from deut. . . next , why did they not prove that it was typicall ? shall we take their fancy for a certainty ? they have neither scripture nor interpreters for it . . they confound the judiciall lawes of moses with the ceremoniall , making the judicatories and justice typicall no lesse then the ceremonies . . they doe utterly overthrow the investiture of christian princes and magistrates with any power at all in matters of religion , from the old testament . so that one may not argue thus : the godly kings of judah did remove the monuments of idolatry and superstition , therefore so should the christian magistrate doe . the most arrant malignant may answer in the words of mr. williams , chap. . that the civill power or state of israel , so farre as it attended upon the spirituall , was meerly figurative : or in the words of m. s. pag. . there are two reasons very considerable why the kings of judah might be invested by god with a larger power in matters of religion , then kings or magistrates under the gospel have any ground or warrant to claime from them . first , they were types of christ ( but by the way how doth he prove that asa , jehu , and josiah were types of christ ? ) which no king under heaven at this day is . secondly , not the people onely , but the very land over which they ruled were typicall . . the punishment of persons was a part of their reformation , as well as the destruction of monuments , and why must we follow their example in the one , more then the other ? if we smart under both their diseases , we must apply both their remedies , or neither . the third argument is drawne from the new testament . the magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine , for he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath on him that doth evill , rom. . . but i assume ; hereticks and sectaries doe evill , yea much evill , especially when they draw many others after them in their pernicious wayes . it was the observation of one of the greatest politicians of this kingdome , that heresies and schismes are of all others the greatest scandalls : yea more then corruption of manners . one of his reasons is , because every sect of them hath a diverse posture or cringe by themselves , which cannot but move derision in worldlings , and depraved politicks , who are apt to contemne holy things . i know it will be answered , if any sectary make a breach of peace , or disturb the state , then indeed the magistrate ought to redresse it by a coercive power . so john the baptist , pag. . so mr. williams , chap. . answereth , rom. . . is not meant of evill against the christian estate , but of evill against the civill state . m. s. pag. . . tells us that he is not for the toleration of sects and schismes , except only upon this supposition , that the professors or maintainers of them be otherwise peaceable in the state , and every wayes subject to the lawes and lawfull power of the civill magistrate . i answer , the experience of former times may make us so wise as to foresee that heresie and schisme tendeth to the breach of the civill peace , and to a rupture in the state as well as in the church . what commotions did the arrians make in all the easterne parts ? the macedonians in greece ? the donatists in africke ? how did the anabaptists raise and foment the bloudy warre of the boores in germany , wherein were killed above men ? tantum relligio potuit suadere malorum . how satanicall was julians designe to bring the christians to nought , by granting liberty of conscience to all the hereticks and sectaries that were among them ? but suppose the commonwealth to runne no hazard by the toleration of heresies and schismes , i answer further , . the text , rom. . . speaketh generally , and we must not distinguish where the scripture doth not distinguish . . those that are in authority are to take such courses and so to rule , that we may not onely lead a quiet and peaceable life , but further that it be in all godlinesse and honesty , tim. . . the magistrate is keeper of both tables , and is to punish the violation of the first table , as well as of the second . . willany man , saith angustine , who is in his right wit , say to kings , doe not care by whom the church of god in your kingdome be maintained or opposed : it doth not concerne you in your kingdome , who will be religious , who sacrilegious : to whom notwithstanding it cannot bee said , it doth not concerne you in your kingdome , who be chaste , who whorish , &c. is the soules keeping faith and truth to god a lighter matter , then that of a woman to a man ? he confesseth in the same epistle , that he and some other african divines were sometime of that opinion , that the emperour should not at all punish the donatists for their heresie or error , but such of them only as should be found to commit any riot or breach of peace , especially the furious and violent circumcellions . but afterward he confesseth that the emperour had as good reason to represse their pernicious error , as their furious violence . a fourth argument is drawne from the names which the scripture giveth to hereticks and sectaries , holding forth the extreame danger of tolerating and letting them alone . they are called ravening wolves , matth. . . and grievous wolves not sparing the flocke , act. . . theeves and robbers , john . . their word eateth as a canker , tim. . . and is as a little leaven leavening the whole lumpe , gal. . . they are troublers of israel , act. . . gal. . . shall the troublers of the state be punished , and the troublers of israel go free ? shal physitians cut off the member that hath a gangrene in it , because it indangereth the whole body , and shall the great state physitians suffer the gangrene to spread in the church ? shall mens bodies , goods , and purses , be so farre cared for , that theeves and robbers must not be suffered , but justice done upon them ; and shall those have immunity who steale away soules from christ , and rob us of the pearle of truth ? nay shall the poore sheepe be so much looked to , that the wolfe must not be spared ; and shall we suffer the soule-destroying wolves to enter , yea abide peaceably among the dear-bought flock of jesus christ ? other arguments might be added , but let these suffice at this present . i come next to answer all the materiall objections which i have either read or heard ( to my best remembrance ) alledged against this coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion . first , the parable of the tares is objected : christ will not have the tares to be pluckt up , but to grow together with the wheat untill the harvest , mat. . . . in this argument mr. williams in his bloudy tenent putteth a great deale of confidence . but i am as confident to discover the strength of it to be lesse then nothing . for first he taketh the tares to be meant neither of hypocrites in the church , whether discovered or undiscovered ; nor yet of those who are scandalous offenders in their life and conversation , but only of antichristian idolaters and false worshippers : which is a most false interpretation . christ himselfe expoundeth it generally , vers. . the good seed are the children of the king dome : but the tares are the children of the wicked one . and vers. . the tares are expounded to be all that offend , and which doe iniquity . this being the cleare meaning , it will follow undeniably , that if the magistrate must spare those who are meant by tares in the parable , then he must spare and let alone all scandalous offenders , murtherers , adulterers , drunkards , theeves , &c. when any such are discovered in the visible church . but this cannot be the meaning of the tares in the parable , saith mr. williams , chap. . that wicked livers , opposite to the children of god , should be understood . for then , saith he , when christ saith , let the tares alone , he should contradict other ordinances for the punishment of evill doers by the magistrate . but this is a base begging of the question : for he well knew that those against whom he disputes hold that his exposition of the parable contradicteth the ordinance of god for punishing idolaters and hereticks , the question being whether this be not an ordinance as well as the punishment of scandalous livers . besides , if the tares be antichristian idolaters , and they must not be pluckt up , but suffered to grow till the harvest , as he expoundeth , this contradicteth other scriptures , which say that the sword must be drawne against antichristian idolaters , and they thereby cut off , revel. . . and . . but i proceed to a second answer . if by tares i should suppose only to be meant idolaters , hereticks , and false worshippers ( which is a glosse contrary to the text , as i have demonstrate ) yet their argument will not conclude the forbearing or sparing of such , except onely in such cases , and so farre as the true worshippers of god cannot be certainly and infallibly dignosced from the false worshippers , as the wheat from the tares : as jehu would not destroy the worshippers of baal , till he was sure that none of the servants of the lord were among them , king. . . the reason why the tares are not to be pluckt up , is , lest while ye gather up the tares , ye root up also the wheat with them , vers. . now when a man is sure that he plucks up nothing but tares , or rather thornes , without the least danger to the wheat , how doth the parable strike against his so doing ? if m. s. will not beleeve me , let him beleeve himselfe , pag. . for my part , saith he , when the civill magistrate shall be farre enough out of this danger of fighting against god , i have nothing to say against his fighting with superstition , heresie , schisme , &c. thirdly , what if i shape yet another answer to the argument out of mr. williams owne words ? chap. . i acknowledge , saith he , this command [ let them alone ] was expresly spoken to the messengers or ministers of the gospel , who have not civill power or authority in their hand , and therefore not to the civill magistrate , king or governour . now therefore what a blockish argument is it , to reason from this parable against the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion ? if there must be a forbearance of any severity , we must forbeare church censures and excommunication a way of rooting out the tares , which mr. williams himselfe justifieth as much as we doe . fourthly , and if the utter extirpation and plucking up of hereticks by capitall punishments , should be understood to be forbidden in the parable , ( as it is not ) yet the stopping of their mouths , the dissipating and suppressing of them , some other coercive way , is not forbidden , as chrysostome noteth upon the place , whom euthymius and theophylactus doe follow in this , allowing of coercive , though not capitall punishments . fifthly , calvin , beza , and our best interpreters , take the scope and intent of that parable , not to be against the immoderate severity of magistrates , but against the immoderate zeal of those who imagine to have the church rid of all scandalous and wicked persons , as wheat without tares , corn without chaffe , a flock of sheep without goats , which hath been the fancy of novatians , donatists and anabaptists . the parable therefore intimates unto us ( as bucerus upon the place expoundeth it ) that when the magistrate hath done all his duty in exercising his coercive power , yet to the worlds end there will be ( in the church a mixture of good and bad . so that it is the universall and perfect purging of the church , which is put off to the last judgement , not the punishment of particular persons . neither doe the servants in the parable aske whether they should pluck up this or that visible tare , but whether they should goe and make the whole field rid of them ; which field is the generall visible church sowed with the ●eed of the gospel ; and so much for that argument . another negative argument is this . such a coercive power in matters of religion , maketh men hypocrites and seven times more the children of hell . christs ordinances put upon a whole city , or a nation , may more civilize and moralize , but never christianize them ; saith m●williams , chap. . i answer , this argument doth utterly condemn josiahs reformation as sinfull , for the caused all judah to stand to the covenant , as we heard before from chron. . . yet iudah became thereby more hypocriticall . treacherous iudah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart , but fainedly , saith the lord , speaking of those very days of iosiah , ier. . . . . this argument maketh also against the punishment of adulteries , murthers , thefts , robberies , &c. for unlesse filthy lust , hatred , and covetousnesse in the heart be mortified , and men convert freely and sincerely , the reducing of them to a morall conversation maketh them hypocrites , and neerer hell then before . . there are two sorts of christs ordinances : some for the communion of saints : others , for the conversion of sinners : it is far from our thoughts to admit , much lesse to compell , a whole city , or nation promiscuously , to the use of the former . but yet converting or reducing ordinances may and ought to put upon all whom they concern . the means must be used and mens hearts left to god . object . . this doctrine of the magistrates coercive power , maketh many to stumble at the presbyterian reformation , as a bloudy reformation , as a building of zion with bloud , and ierusalem with iniquity , mic. . . answ . . we have not so learned christ , we abominate the popish and prelaticall tyranny . we know that the servant of the lord must not strive ; but be gentle unto all men , apt to teach , patient : in meeknesse instructing those that oppose themselves , if god peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth , tim. . , . yet he who said so , could also say , i would they were even cut off which trouble you , gal. . . it is my souls desire that the secular coercive power may be put forth upon those only who can by no other means be reclaimed , & who can be no longer spared without a visible rupture in the church , and the manifest danger of seducing and misleading many souls . a presbytery is not so ill a neighbour , that no man who hath the least differing opinion may live beside it . but . this objection doth as much strike against the new england government , as against the government of the neighbouring reformed churches . for in new england there hath been severity enough ( to say no worse ) used against hereticks and schismaticks . and here i must appeal the consciences of those who now plead so much for liberty of conscience and toleration in this kingdome , were they able to root out the presbyterians and their way , & could find civil authority inclinable to put forth the coercive power against it , whether in that case would they not say , that the magistrate may represse it by strong hand , if it cannot be otherwise repressed . it is not without cause that i put this quere to them ; for m. s. pag. . ( a passage before cited ) doth allow of the magistrates fighting against a doctrine or way which is indeed superstition , heresy , or schisme , and only pretendeth to be from god , when it is indeed from men . also that pamphlet called as you were , p. . tels us that it was neither gamaliels meaning nor mr goodwins meaning , that every way pretending to be from god must be let alone , but that only we are to refrain & let alone , till we are certain that we are out of danger of fighting against god , while we endeavour to overthrow it . now i assume , there are some who plead for liberty of conscience , who professe that they are certain and fully assured , upon demonstrative proofs , that the presbyteriall way is not from god , nor according to the mind of jesus christ ( which is hinted to us both in the pamphlet last cited p. , . & in {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} pag. . ) therefore according to their principles they must allow of the putting forth of the civil coercive power against the presbyteriall way . and if so , what a grand imposture is this ? what a deceiving of the world ? what a mocking of the parliament and of the kingdome ? to plead generally for liberty of conscience , when they intend only liberty to themselves , not to others that are opposite to them . which appeareth yet further by the compassionate samaritane , pag. . he saith that no man is to be punished or discountenanced by authority for his opinion , unlesse it be dangerous to the state , pag. , . he discourseth against the opinion of presbyterians as most dangerous to the state . therefore he would have the presbyterians discountenanced and punished by authority , and intendeth liberty only to the separatists , anabaptists , and the like . i have done with three objections , but i have three words more to speak with the compassionate samaritane , i● answer to his three arguments for liberty of conscience , in which though all the strength of his discourse doth lie , i hope to make him ashamed of them , if he can at all blush . his first argument is this , whatsoever a mans reason doth conclude to be true or false , to be agreeable or disagreeable to gods word , that same to that man is his opinion or judgement , and so man is by his own reason necessitated to be of that mind he is : now where there is a necessity , there ought to be no punishment , for punishment is the recompence of voluntary actions , therefore no man ought to be punished for his judgement . answ . . the question is not whether a man ought to be punished for his judgement , but whether a man ought to be punished for such professions or practises in religion , as are found to be pernicious , hurtfull , and destructive , to the glory of god , the truth of the gospell , the ordinances of christ , the reformation of religion , the peace of the church . i know he will be ready still to set on foot his argument , for that a mans judgement and reason doth so necessitate and conclude him that he cannot chuse but professe and practice as he doth . therefore i adde . this argument of his striketh against the justice of the parliament done or to be done upon malignants , for as much as their judgement bindeth them , and their reason doth necessitate them to judge and speak and act as they doe . . it striketh at the very justice of god upon reprobate and unbeleeving men , for as much as they cannot receive the things of god , cor. . . cannot hear the words of christ , joh. . . cannot receive the spirit of truth , ioh. . . but . the formall solution is this ; there is a grosse fallacy in the argument , for we must distinguish necessity , there is a naturall necessity , which takes away the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and a morall necessity , which takes away the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of a mans being of another judgement or way . again , there is an absolute necessity , and a hypotheticall necessity . now the necessity of a hereticks judging thus , because his reason concludeth him thus , is not a morall necessity or obligation upon him , as if it were not lawfull to him to judge or doe otherwise , ( nay he ought and is bound by the word of god to judge otherwise , and doe otherwise ) but it is a naturall necessity , ( i meane of sinfull nature ) and that not simple and absolute , neither , but hypotheticall only , and upon this supposition that he hath not yet opened his eyes to receive more light , nor set his heart singly and in the feare of god to seeke more light . so that the plaine english of this samaritan argument is this : though gods word bindeth a man to such a duty , yet if his owne erroneous , perverse and corrupt judgement conclude him so farre that his opinion cannot agree with the word of god , and himselfe cannot be brought to the practice of that necessary duty ; such a man ought not to be punished . or as if one should argue thus : he that hath borrowed from me a thousand pound , hath by his owne sault disabled himselfe to pay it : therefore i may not call him to an account for it . but let us see whether this samaritan be happier in his second argument . which is this : it 's knowne that the fathers , generall councels , nationall assemblies , synods and parliaments in their times have beene most grossely mistaken : and though the present times be wiser then the former , &c. yet since there remaines a possibility of error , notwithstanding never so great presumptions to the contrary , one sort of men are not to compell another , since this hazard is run thereby , that he who is in an error may be the constrainer of him who is in the truth . answ . . farewell parliaments , if this argument hold good . the parliament may fine no man , imprison no man , banish no man : they may compell no man to assessements , taxes , excise , billeting of souldiers &c. and why forsooth ? because they may not presume of an infallible and unerring spirit , but may erre , and have erred as well as other men . he argueth from the hazard of compulsion , it may fall out that he who is in the truth may be constrained and persecuted . true : it may fall out so ; and the lord save us that we never be accessary to the persecuting of any who is in the truth , for so it may be againe through mens corruption and abuse of the magistrates power , ( so the best things may be abused . ) but the liberty of conscience which he pleadeth for , runs a farre greater hazard , even the hazard of not only shaking but overturning truth , and peace , and religion , and ordinances , and church , and soules , and all . to the ruine of all these , and to a thousand mischiefes , this kinde of liberty prepareth a broad way , and openeth a wide doore ; and it is better , as he said , to live where nothing is lawfull , then where every thing is lawfull . . it followes not that because parliaments may not presume of an unerring spirit , therefore they cannot be certaine that they are in the truth concerning this or that particular , so that they may confidently compell men to it , without feare of fighting against god . the acknowledgement of a possibility of error , and that we know but in part as long as we are in this world , may well consist with mens fulnesse of perswasion from the light of gods word , concerning this or that truth to be beleeved , or duty to be done . i make haste to his third argument . to compell me , saith he , against my conscience , is to compell me against what i beleeve to be true , and so against my faith ; now whatsoever is not of faith is sinne : to compell me therefore against my conscience , is to compell me to doe that which is sinfull . and , againe i am counselled by the apostle to be perswaded in my owne minde of the truth of that way wherein i serve the lord , &c. answ . . this also shaketh loose parliamentary authority ; though the gentleman who wrote these arguments pretendeth to stand for it , as much as any other . his argument will conclude ( if it concludeth at all ) that the parliament may not compell malignants , disaffected persons , rebels , to any thing which they are not perswaded in their own minds to be right . it is against my conscience , wil the antiparliamentary malignant say , to contribute to the war , to acknowledge this for a parliament , as long as the king doth not acknowledg it ; to reveal such a design , or to confesse this or that plot against the parliament , whē i am examined ; therefore i shal sin if i do so , for whatsoever is not of faith is sinne , and the parliament shall compell me to sinne , if they compell me to doe so . for though the thing may be in it selfe good , yet if it doe not appeare to be so to my conscience , the practice thereof in me is sinfull , which therefore i ought not to bee compelled unto , saith the samaritan . if hee say his argument is only concerning matters of religion , i answer , whatever his intention be in offering the argument , the very nature and force of the argument it selfe driveth universally against the compelling of a man to any thing whatsoever which is against his owne conscience , except he will say that it is a sinne to serve god against my cons●ience , but it is no sinne to serve the parliament against my conscience . saith not the apostle , whatsoever is not of faith is sinne : and , he that doubteth is damned ? but . when the apostle saith so , he doth not exclude all manner of doubting , as the casuists well observe , but only practicall doubts : for a man may have his conscience morally and practically certaine , so that he may doe such a thing lawfully , and with confidence that he is doing the will of god , and yet withall he may be perhaps fluctuating in some speculative doubts concerning that very thing . for instance : a christian may come to the lords table with so much faith ( i meane not now the faith of the person which justifieth before god , but the faith of that action ) as maketh his comming lawfull , though his thoughts be exercised with some doubts concerning the truth of his repentance and faith . a souldier may in faith goe out to warre , being assured that what he doth he may doe without sinne , but yet he hath happily his owne speculative doubts concerning the nature , causes , and ends of the warre . a man may with freedome and perswasion of minde ( so farre as concerneth his practice ) submit to presbyteriall government , who yet perhaps hath not throughly satisfied himselfe concerning the grounds and warrants which it hath from the word of god . the samaritan will reply ( it may be ) that he hath no faith at all concerning the practice it selfe , and that he may not be compelled to doe any thing against his conscience , for that were to compell him to sinne . to take off this , i adde . if the thing be indifferent , i confesse no man is to be compelled to it against his conscience , for this hath beene the tyranny of papists and prelats , to compell men against their conscience to certaine rites which themselves acknowledged to be meerly indifferent , setting aside obedience to authority in such things , which ( say they ) is not indifferent . but if the word of god either directly or by necessary consequence , make the thing necessary , and such as we cannot leave undone without sinne and breach of duty ; if there be such an obligation from the word , then may a man bee compelled to it , though against his conscience . but then you will say , i am brought into a necessity of sinning , for if i obey not , i refuse a duty ; if i obey , i doe it against my conscience . answ. this necessity is not absolute , but hypotheticall , is not perse , but per accidens , so long as a man retaineth the error of his conscience , which he ought to cast away . you will say againe , supposing that my conscience cannot be satisfied , nor made of another opinion then now i am of , whether in this case , and so long as it standeth thus with me , may authority compell me to obey against my conscience , and so to sinne ? or whether ought they not rather permit me not to obey , because my conscience forbiddeth me . answ. the thing being necessary , as hath been said , it is pars tutior , yea , tutissima , that a man be compelled to it , though it be against his erring and ill informed conscience . i know so long as he hath such an erring conscience he cannot but sin in obeying . but the sin of not obeying is greater and heavier : for this is a sin in the fact it self ; that a sin in the manner of doing only , being not done in faith : this is a sin of it selfe , that is a sin only by accident : this is a sin materially ; that is a sinne only interpretatively to him , because he thinks so : this is a sin for the substance ; that a sin for the circumstance : this cannot be made to be no sin , for the nature of the duty cannot be altered ; that may cease to be a sin , for the mans conscience may through gods mercy and blessing upon the means , be better informed . so that there can be no doubt but this is every way a greater sin then that , and consequently more to be avoided . and thus i have dispatched the samaritane who did undertake to pour oyl into the wounds of the separation . medice cura teipsum . the next thing comes in my way , is an argument brought for liberty of conscience , from gamaliels speech in favour of the apostles , act. . , . refrain from these men & let them alone : for if this counsell or this work be of men , it will come to nought . but if it be of god ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found even to fight against god . the strength of his argumentation did lie in this d●lemma ; this doctrine or way is either of men , or of god . if it be of men , you shall not need to represse it , for it will come to nought of it self , which he proves by two historicall instances of judas and theudas . if it be of god , it is in vain to strive against it , for it must prevail , and the counsell of heaven must stand . therefore be what it will be , there is no danger to let it alone . but on the other side , if ye goe about to represse it , ye runne the hazard both of fighting against god , and of provoking the displeasure as well of the romanes who have not permitted unto you the liberty of capitall punishments , as of the people of the jews who magnifie these men and their way . this is the whole substance , sense , and scope of that speech of gamaliel in the councell . hence did some argue for a toleration to servetus and other hereticks . and though this their way was then discovered to be their folly , yet their posterity approve their sayings . the same argument is used in that pamphlet called liberty of conscience , p. , . upon the same foundation doth mr goodwin build in his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and the paraenetick for christian liberty , pag. . and . supposing the credit and authority of gamaliels speech , for matter of truth to be one and the same with other scriptures , and that there is nothing in all that speech but what is fully consonant with the word of god , unquestionably so acknowledged . so mr goodwin affirmeth , p. . and after him one p. p. which is by interpretation , poor pamphleter , fals in the same ditch ; he might well call it as you were , for he makes that party to be never a jot more in the right . first of all he will contend with us that protestant interpreters doe commend gamaliels speech , and justify m●goodwins doctrine . sure i am , calvin takes gamaliel to be a godlesse polititian , and a neutralist , and his speech to have a great error in it . so saith pelargus upon the place . but to save me a labour in looking upon other interpreters , because the poor pamphleter appealeth first to piscator and beza , and afterwards to gualther , ( as mr goodwin did before him ) let him be judged by these and no other . p●scator saith plainly , that gamaliels speech was not right , while he saith , if this counsell or this work be of men , it will come to nought , his meaning being that therefore they should let it alone . beza thinks gamaliel spake not from love to the apostles , but from fear of the romanes . gualther thinks it a most pernicious tenent which some build upon this place , concerning the toleration of heresies and errors . yea , beza de haereticis à magistratu puniendis , citeth and approveth calvins judgement , condemning gamaliel for neutrality , and his speech of error . these learned divines have so well opened and cleared the point , that there is no place left for what the poore pampleter hath said , yet two things more i must take notice of in him . he saith it was not for any fear of the jews or romanes that gamaliel gave this advice . not for fear of the people of the jews , for that would be but at the apostles apprehension , not execution . what non-sense is here ? the people were angry at laying hands on the apostles , but there was no fear of their wrath if the apostles should be killed . not for fear of the romanes wrath , which , saith he , they often regarded not , as acts . . a place which confuteth himself , for when the jews would have killed paul , claudius lysias came with an army and rescued him : a danger which we must think the wisdome of gamali●l & the councell could better foresee , then that rude and furious multitude , which would have killed paul . next he will not yeeld so much as that gamaliel did doubt whether the apostles doctrine were from god or not , and that he made it an uncertain case . in this sir you have faced about , sure you are not as you were , for mr goodwin himself ΘΕΟΜΑΞΙΑ , pag. . saith , that gamaliel in point of judgement or conscience , was still but where he was , doubtfull and in suspence with himself about the businesse . well , but why hath he now denyed that gamaliel made it a doubtfull and uncertain case ? he might , saith he , and in all likelyhood did thus expresse himself for fear or policy : so did hushai strangely for an honest heart in that case of davids , in his counsell to absalon , sam. . yet hushai made a round lie , even against his knowledge . look about you my masters , know whom ye trust ; here 's a generation of men , pretending to a more perfect and saint-like reformation then others , but yet they think it no fault to lie and dissemble for good ends . nay that 's not all , pag. . answering to an objection made against those who doe commend and magnifie themselves , for greater gifts and graces then other men have ; he tels us it is no fault for a man not only to compare , but preferre himself to another , and that on purpose to heighten his own estimation . which how sweetly it agrees with pauls doctrine , phil. . . in lowlinesse of mind let each esteem other better then themselves ; let every sober and moderate spirit judge . how now , poor pamphleter ? is it not enough for you to defend a lying tongue , but you will needs defend pride too ? those are two ( i am sure ) of the seven things which are abomination to the lord , prov. . , . and here i leave the poor pamphleter with this black mark upon him ; i will not proceed to answer a fool in his foolishnesse , lest i be like unto him ; thus far i have answered , lest he be wise in his own eyes . only i adde one thing more in answer to that argument for liberty of conscience , from acts . , . suppose gamaliels principles to be good , and this speech to be of truth and authority , ( which i have proved it is not ) yet it is not applicable to the toleration of hereticks and sectaries now , that case of the apostles being extraordinary , and great miracles wrought by them , to the conviction of their most malignant opposites , act. . . some it may be will object further from isa. . . a place objected in the paraenetick , pag. . they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountaine . and luke . . and when his disciples james and john saw this , they said , lord wilt thou that we command fire to come downe from heaven , and consume them , even as elias did ? but he turned and rebuked them , and said , ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of , for the sonne of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . a place objected by nicolaides refut . tract. de eccl. cap. . answ. that prophecy concerning the christian church , isa. . . is not to be understood generally , as the word soundeth , for then adulterers , murtherers , &c. are not to be hurt and destroyed by the christian magistrate . the meaning therefore is , that those who have formerly been as lions & wolves to the poor lambs of christ , shall either be renewed and changed in their nature , or ( which is more probable ) shal be so restrained and overawed by the power and providence of god , that it shal not be in their power to hurt or destroy any of the saints for the truth or the gospels sake . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , neither shall they bee able to destroy any : so the septuagints . god shall so preserve and protect his church , that she shall be like a lamb among wolves , or like a kid among leopards , or like a childe putting his hand on the cockatrice den , and yet shall not be hurt nor destroyed thereby . and as this prophecie guardeth and protecteth none but those who are in gods holy mountaine , professors and lovers of the gospel , and the ordinances of jesus christ : so our lord christs rebuke , luke . , . striketh not against any just and necessary severity , but against a private vindictive spirit , and carnall blinde zeale : it being the purpose of christ , then , most of all other times , not to exercise violence , ( as tyrants doe in conquering new dominions ) but to conquer and subdue soules by his doctrine and miracles , with a spirit of meeknesse , especially having to doe with the samaritans , or any other who had never yet knowne nor received the gospel . even those who say most for a coercive power to be put forth against heretickes and schismaticks , doe not allow of the compelling of infidels , pagans , or jewes , by externall punishments to receive the gospel . but now after all this debate upon the question in hand , and after all these arguments for the affirmative and for the negative , some will happily desire and expect some further modification and explanation of the matter in certain positive conclusions or distinguishing assertions . for whose satisfaction i say , first , there are five sorts of toleration proceeding from five different principles . . of indifferency . . of policy . . of pretended conscience and equity . . of necessity . . of charity . the first is when the magistrate is a nullifidian , neutralist , and adiaphorist , esteeming as gallio did , questions of the law and of the ordinances of christ , to be of words & names , or things which he careth not for , acts . , . the second is when the magistrate tolerateth hereticks and sectaries for his own profit , or some such interest of policy , such as maketh the pope to tolerate the jews in italy , yea in rome it self , where they have their synagogues , circumcision and liturgies , because his profit by them is greater then by the very courtizans ; yea , besides their certain tribute , he doth sometimes impose on them a subsidy of ten thousand crownes extraordinary for some service of the state , as europae speculum , pag. , . hath represented to us . and whether the states of the united provinces do not grant tolerations upon the like interests of their own profit , i leave it to the judgement of their own consciences . the third is the toleration pleaded for here , by mr williams , the compassionate samaritane , &c. as if justice , equity , duty , and conscience should make the magistrate forbear all coercive power in matters of religion . all these three i utterly condemn , and the former arguments doe strongly militate against them . the fourth kinde of toleration , arising from necessity which hath no law , may well be mourned for as an affliction , it cannot be condemned as the magistrates fault . even a david may have cause to complain that the sons of zerviah are too strong for him . in such cases as these , our divines have given a relief to the conscience of the christian magistrate , purging him of the guilt of this kind of toleration ; provided always , that he hath endeavoured so farre as he can to extirpate heresies , and to establish the true religion only . which hath nothing to doe with that principle now defended , that the magistrate though he may never so easily , yet he ought not nor cannot without sin exercise a coercive power in matter of religion . the fifth and last is that kind of toleration whereby the magistrate when it is in the power of his hand to punish and extirpate , yet having to doe with such of whom there is good hope either of reducing them by convincing their judgments , or of uniting them to the church by a safe accommodation of differences , he granteth them a supersedeas ; or though there be no such grounds of hope concerning them , yet while he might crush them with the foot of power , in christian pity and moderation , he forbeareth so far as may not be destructive to the peace and right government of the church , using his coercive power with such mixture of mercy as createth no mischief to the rest of the church . i speak not only of bearing with those who are weak in the faith , rom. . . but of sparing even those who have perverted the faith , so far as the word of god and rules of christian moderation would have severity tempered with mercy : that is ( as hath been said ) so far as is not destructive to the churches peace , nor shaketh the foundations of the established form of church government , and no further : these last two kinds of toleration are allowed ; the first three are wholy condemned . my second distinction is concerning the punishments inflicted by the magistrate upon hereticks . they are either exterminative , or medicinall . such as blaspheme god or jesus christ , or who fall away themselves and seduce others to idolatry , ought to be utterly cut off according to the law of god . but as for other hereticks , they are to be chastened with medicinall punishments as mulcts , imprisonments , banishment , by which through gods blessing they may be humbled , ashamed , and reduced . not that i think the proper end of civill and coercive punishments to be the conversion and salvation of the delinquent , ( which is the end of church censures & of excommunication it self ) but that the right method of proceeding doth require that the magistrate inflict the smaller punishments first , that there may be place for the offenders bringing forth of fruits worthy of repentance , and he may be at least reduced to externall order and obedience , being perswaded by the terror of civill power , which may and doth ( when blessed of god ) prove a preparation to free obedience , as the needle is to the thread , or the law to the gospell , servile fear to filiall fear : and that the magistrate step not up to the highest justice till other punishments have proved ineffectuall : which made constantine punish the hereticks of his time not with death , but with banishment , as is manifest by the proem of the councell of nice . in such cases it may be said to the heretick of the magistrate ▪ he is the minister of god to thee for good , more good i am sure , then if the golden reins of civill justice should be loosed , and he suffered to doe what he list . therefore augustine likeneth this coercive punishing of hereticks to sarah her dealing roughly with hagar , for her good and humiliation . i conclude , connivence and indulgence to hereticks is a cruell mercy : correction is a mercifull severity , and a wholesome medicine , as well to themselves as to the church . thirdly , we must distinguish betwixt the coercive power of the magistrare in matters of religion , and the abuse of that power ; when we justifie the power , we justifie not the abuse of it ; and when we condemn the abuse , we must not therefore condemn the power . acontius stratag. stat. li . . pag. . buildeth much upon this notion , let a man imagine that his lot is fallen in those times when the truth is persecuted by authority , when the magistrate justifieth the wicked and condemneth the godly , ( which hath been the more ordinary condition of the church ) and then let him accordingly shape the resolution of the question concerning the magistrates punishing of hereticks . will not a man think ( saith he ) it had been better that hereticks had not been punished , then that upon pretence of coercive power against hereticks , the edge of the civill sword be turned towards the preachers and professors of the truth ? but notwithstanding of all this , truth must be truth , and justice must be justice , abuse it who will . parliaments and synods have been many times enemies to the truth , and have abused their power in matters of religion : must we therefore deny the power of parliaments and synods ? or must we cast off any ordinance of god because of the abuse of it ? if the thing were indifferent , the abuse might take away the use : not so , when the thing is necessary . i adde ( which is well observed by calvin ) when jeremiah was accused and arraigned as worthy to die , his defence is not this , you ought not to vindicate religion with the sword , nor put any man to death for the cause of conscience , but this is it , know ye for a certain , that if ye put me to death , ye shall surely bring innocent bloud upon your selves , and upon this city , and upon the inhabitants thereof : for of a truth the lord hath sent me unto you to speak all these words in your ears , jer. . . neither did ever the apostles ( though often persecuted ) plead the unlawfulnesse of persecuting men for heresie , but they pleaded the goodnesse of their cause , and that they were no hereticks . fourthly , i distinguish betwixt bare opinions or speculations , and scandalous or pernicious practices , as mr burton doth in his vindication of the independent churches , pag. . you must distinguish , saith he , betwixt mens consciences and their practises . the conscience simply considered in it self is for god , the lord of the conscience alone to judge , as before . but for a mans practises ( of which alone man can take cognizance ) if they be against any of gods commandements of the the first or second table ; that appertains to the civill magistrate to punish , who is for this cause called custos utriusque tabulae , the keeper of both tables : for this he citeth rom. . , . and addeth . so as we see here what is the object of civill power , to wit actions good or bad , not bare opinions , not thoughts , not conscience , but actions . and this is his answer to the interrogatory concerning the lawfull coercive power of civill magistrates in suppressing heresies . in which he handsomely yeeldeth the point , for who doth advise the parliament to punish men for their thoughts , or bare opinions , or for conscience simply considered in it self ? it is for preaching , printing , spreading of dangerous opinions , for schismaticall , pernicious and scandalous practises , for drawing factions among the people contrary to the covenant , for resisting the reformation of religion , for lying and railing against the covenant , the parliament , the assembly of divines , or against the reformed churches . fifthly , we must distinguish the persons who are in the error , whether heresiarchs and ring-leaders , or whether followers only , and such as do actiagere ; whether schismatizing , or schismatized ; whether more weake , or more wilfull ; whether seducers , or seduced ; whether pious , or prophane , or pharisaicall ; whether peaceable , moderate , calme , docile , or turbulent , factious , fierce , railing , obstinate , incorrigible . so that when the thing is brought from the thesis to the hypothesis , there is very much to be trusted to the prudence , circumspection , and observation of those who are in authority , to set apart those for punishment who resist reformation , as jannes and jambres did resist moses , tim. . . and are said to trouble the churches , act. . gal. . . & . . and to trouble them more or lesse , as they are more or lesse troublers of israel . let not the magistrate feare to say to every achan , why hast thou troubled us ? the lord shall trouble thee this day , jos. . . other seduced ones the magistrate is to command sub poena , and cause them stand to the covenant of god , as iosiah did , if they cannot be perswaded to doe it willingly . if the magistrate miscarry in a misapplication of his coercive power , let him answer to god and his conscience for his error . it is not in my thoughts either to plead for or allow of the persecuting of pious and peaceable men . sixtly , as the reformation and preservation of religion differ much from the propagation of religion : so the coercive power put forth in the suppressing of heresie or schisme , is a thing of another nature then the compelling of infidels by the sword to receive the gospell . let the pope , and the spaniard , and mahomet propagate religion by the sword ; that is not it i plead for . none of the gentiles was of old compelled to be circumcised , but being circumcised he might be compelled to keepe the law of moses . also if strangers of the gentiles were sojourning or trading in the land of israel , they might be compelled to abstaine from the publicke and scandalous breaking of the morall law , nehem. . . . exod. . . which things did belong to the preservation , not to the propagation of religion . seventhly , to establish by a law the toleration , liberty and immunity of such a sect or way , so as all that will may joyne in it , is a thing of most dangerous consequence . but to permit such or so many persons of a sect to enjoy the liberty of their owne consciences and practices , with such limitations as shall be found necessary , is a tolerable toleration , i meane a thing though not to be wished , yet to be allowed . the romans in their heathenish way did put a difference betwixt these two : when they abolished the bacchanalian festivity and discharged it , they granted no toleration to such as pleased still to observe it : only they were content that some few upon leave first obtained from the senate , and upon certaine conditions , might be permitted to continue their owne practice , as to their part . eightly , there is also a great difference betwixt toleration and accommodation . by accommodation i understand an agreement of dissenters with the rest of the church in practicall conclusions , so that if any difference be , it is in their principles , not in their practices , and so not obvious , apparent and scandalous to people . i had rather goe two miles in an accommodation , ( yea as many as the word of god will suffer me ) then one mile in a toleration . for in that way there is no schisme , no rent in israel , but the lord one , and his name one . in this way there is temple against temple , and altar against altar , manasseh against ephraim , and ephraim against manasseh , and they both against judah : a mi●esy from which the lord deliver us . i doe not deny but if a safe and happy accommodation be impossible , such a toleration as i have formerly spoken of , is not to be disallowed . but the accommodation is a more excellent way , and that which is to be rather embraced , yea endeavoured for and followed after , according to the apostles rule , phil. . , . ( which isidorus pelusiota did long since observe to be the best and happiest way of putting an end to divisions and dissentions in the church ) let us therefore as many as be perfect be thus minded : and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded , god shall reveale even this unto you . neverthelesse whereto we have already attained , let us walke by the same rule , let us minde the same thing . if it be said , quorsum haec ? what doe i conclude from all this ? it is to leave this confirmed and sealed truth in the bosome of the high court of parliament , and of all inferiour magistrates according to their place and interest , under them , that it is their duty , without respect of persons , to endeavour the extirpation of heresie and schisme , and what soever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine , and the power of godlinesse , left they partake in other mens sinnes , and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues ; and that the lord may be one , and his name one in the three kingdomes : and to endeavour the discovery of all such as have beene or shall be evill instruments , by hindring the reformation of religion , or making any faction or partice amongst the people , contrary to the solemne league and covenant , that they may be brought to publick triall , and receive condigne punishment , &c. which as they had great reason to sweare and covenant , so now they have greater reason to performe accordingly ; and as it is in it selfe a duty , and we tyed to it by the oath of god , and his vowes that are upon us , as ●●rai●ly as ever the sacrifice to the hornes of the altar : so we are to take speciall notice of the unhappy consequents which follow upon our slacknesse , slownesse and sl●●thfulnesse , in fulfilling that sacred oath , viz. the hindring of uniformity , the continuing and increasing of a rup●ure both in church and state , the re●arding of reformation , the spreading and multiplying of heresies and sects , while every one doth what is right in his owne eyes ; the great scandall given both to enemies and friends : to enemies , who are made to thinke worse of our covenant , because we doe not performe it : the review of the covenant , printed at oxford , upbraideth us with this : that heresie and schisme was never more suffered , and lesse suppressed in london , then since we sware to endeavour the extirpation of the same : to friends also , who are mightily stumbled by our promising so much , and performing so little in this kinde : which the wallachian classis in their late letter to the reverend assembly of divines at westminster ( printed before apollonius his booke ) doth sadly and seriously lay to our consciences . a paraenetick . before i end , i have a word of exhortation for the five apologists , and such others as shall ( i trust ) agree with the churches of both kingdomes , not only in one confession of faith , but in one directorie of worship . me thinks i heare them calling to me to say on . et tu mi fili ? said caesar . and must you also brethren , give a wound to the body of christ ? doe not , o doe not involve your selves in the plea of toleration with the separatists and anabaptists . do not partake in their separation , lest you partake in their suppression . let us heare no more paraeneticks for toleration , or liberty of conscience : but as many as you will for a just and mercifull accommodation : a thing mentioned by that author , pa. . but not sought after . if you be the sonnes of peace , you shall be characterized by this shibboleth , you will call for accommodation , not for toleration ; for one way , not for two . let there be no strife betweene us and you , for we be brethren : and is not the canaanite and the perizzite yet in the land ? o let it not be told in gath , nor published in the streets of ashkelon , let it not be said , that there can be no unity in the church without prelacy . brethren i charge you by the roes and by the hind●s of the field , that ye awake not nor stirre up jesus christ till he please ; for his rest is sweet and glorious with his welbeloved . it shall bee no griefe of heart to you afterward , that you have pleased others as well as your selves , and have stretched your principles for an accommodation in church government , as well as in worship , and that for the churches peace and edification ; and that the eares of our common enemies may tingle , when it shall be said , the churches of christ in england have rest , and are edified , and walking in the feare of the lord , and in the joy of the holy ghost are multiplyed . alas , how shall our divisions and contentions hinder the preaching and learning of christ , and the edifying one another in love ! is christ divided ? saith the apostle . there is but one christ , yea the head and the body makes one christ , so that you cannot divide the body without dividing christ . is there so much as a seame in all christs garment ? is it not woven throughout from the top to the bottome ? will you have one halfe of israel to follow tibni , and another halfe to follow omri ? o brethren , we shall be one in heaven , let us packe up differences in this place of our pilgrimage , the best way wee can . nay , we will not despaire of unity in this world . hath not god promised to give us one heart and one way ? and that ephraim shall not envy judah , and judah shall not vexe ephraim , but they shall flee upon the shoulders of the philistims toward the east , they shall spoile them of the east together ? hath not the mediator ( whom the father heareth alwayes ) prayed that all his may be one ? brethren , it is not impossible , pray for it , endeavour it , presse hard toward the marke of accommodation . how much better is it that you be one with the other reformed churches , though somewhat straitned and bound up , then to bee divided though at full liberty and elbow-roome ? better is a dry morsell and quietnesse therewith , then a house full of sacrifices with strife . doth not the solemne league and covenant binde you sincerely , really , and constantly to endeavour the nearest ( marke nearest ) uniformi●y and conjunction in religion : and that you shall not suffer your selves directly or indirectly to be withdrawne from this blessed union and conjunction . i know there is a spirit of jealousie walking up and downe . o beware of groundlesse feares and apprehensions . iudge not , lest you be judged . iudge not according to appearance , but judge righteous judgement . many false rumours and surmises there have beene concerning the presbyterian principles , practices , designes , expertus l●quor . i am perswaded if there were but a right understanding one of anothers intentions , the accommodation i speak of would not bee difficult . brethren , if you will not hearken to wholsome counsell , you shall be the more inexcusable . i have in my eye that law of god , thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart : thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sinne upon him . faithfull are the wounds of a friend . therefore love the truth and peace . yea , seeke peace and pursue it . consider what i say . the lord guide your feet in the way of peace . and o that god would put it in your hearts to cry downe toleration , and to cry up accommodation ! amen , amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- see the review of the covenant . notes for div a e- in am ▪ ● disp. . quaest. . punct. . . * brochmand . de magist. polit. cap . quaest. . dub . fatemur idololatras istos crassos , qui a●●os seducunt , ●●●dendos esse . et in●●a . haereticos qui è territorio principis exire jussi , detrectant obsequium , ac pacē publicam turbant , vita plecti posse , damus faciles . et infra . haereticos tanquam falsarios , castigandos & pu●endos esse censemus , sed non morte , verùm carcere , exilio , excommunicatime . vide cal●in . refut . error . mich. serv●ti , pag. . inter opusc. scimus tres esse errorum gradus : & quibusdam fatemur dandam esse veniam , aliis modicam castigationem suffic●re , ut tantum manifesta impietas capital . suppl●cio plectatur . fideles saepius paulus ●ortatur ut se invicem tolerent , quamvis aliqua sit inter eos dissensio : nempe siqua levis superstitio & inscitia simplicium men●es occupat ; ut ●am patientia corrigere potiùs studeant , quàm intemperanter ad vindictam e●●erveant . secundum errorum genus , etsi castigationem meretur , mediocr●● tamen adhibenda est severi●as : tantum ne indulgentiâ alatur eorum improbitas & contumacia qui fidei unitatem scindere cuperent . sed ubi à s●is fundamentis convellitur religio , detestandae in deum blasphemiae proferuntur , impiis & pestiferis dogmatibus in ●x●tium rapiuntur animae ; denique ubi palam defectio ab uni●o deo , purâque doctrinâ tentatur , ad extremum illud remedium descendere necesse est , ne mo tale venenum longius s●rpat . this treatise is approved by bulling●r in an epistle to calvin . vide calv. epist. p. . where he addeth : dudum d. vrbanus regius un● cum omn●bus luneburgen . ecclesiae ministris , edito etiam l●bro germanico , ostendit jure divine & humano coerceri haereticos . concerning moderation he saith after : scio tibi nec crudele essè ingenium , nec te ullam atrocitatem approbare : quis n●sciat etiam hîc modum adhibendum esse ? at quomodo serveto lernae haerese●n & pertinacissimo homini parci potuerit , non video . when monfortius had stated the question thus : sunt quidam qui volunt omnes hereticos , hoc est , ab ipsis dissent entes , interfici , &c. beza answereth him : ergo si potest , vel unum nominet qui a●t omnes haereticos censuerit interficiendos , aut ita sibi placuerit ut alios omnes diversum sentientes pro haereticis habuer●t . stratag. satan . lib. . pa. , . sed sunt qui tantum usque ad christum viguisse ●am legē putent , &c. et poenam illam corporalem aeternae damnationis typum fuisse , &c. quae quidem conjectura a●eo mihi non inepta visa est , ut quamobrem rejici possit non inve●irem ; nisi ei●●atin in lege posita refragaretur . est en●m in lege : vt omnis israel audiens timea● , neque 〈◊〉 ▪ ac quicquam admittat ej●smodi . quae certe ratio perpetuo v●get . * pelargus in deuter. qui blasphemi sunt , qui ecclesiam & rempub. aperte t●●●bant , qu se 〈◊〉 sunt m●ritas incurr●●● poeras : cae●●●● corrige●di sunt , modisque alas 〈◊〉 , ex●mplo theodosii & justiniani imperatorum , apud socratem lib. . c. . theodosius {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} u●be ej●cit . tom. . ep. . see bacous essayes pag. , . epist. . nonnull ●●fratribus videbatur , in quibus & ego eram , quam vis donatistarum rabies usquequaque saeviret , non esse petendū ab imperatoribus , ut ipsam haeresim juberent omnino non esse , paenam constituendo eis qui in illa esse voluissent : sed boc potius constitueren● , ut eorum furiosas violentias non paterentur . notwithstanding he acknowledgeth a great mercy of god in inclining the emperors heart another way . hive ergo factum est ut imperator religiosus & pius perlatis in notitiam suam talibus causis , mallet piissimis legibus illius impietatis errorem omnino corrigere , et eos qui contra christum christi sign● portarent , ad unitate●● catholicam terrendo & coerceudo redigere , quàm saeviendi tantummodo auferre licentiam , & errandi ac percundi relinquere . calv. re●ut . error . mich. serveti . porro crudelis est ista quam laudant clementia , oves exponere in praedam ut lupi● parcatur . et infra . quid enim absurdius est , quam furta severè puniat judex , sacrilegiis licentiam dare ? quam suum cuique honorem salvii tueatur , lacerandā impiis exponere dei gloriā ? tossanus in locun . sunt qui hoc loco abutuntur ut probent non esse sumend em supplicium de baereticis . cart. wright . hist. christi ex . evaig . lib. . p. . sed hoc 〈◊〉 haereticorum patroni ad clientum s●or● in●unitatem aserendum abut●ntur . quibus vel ex hoc ipso loco resistitur . et primum quidem quoniam hoc loco de to â improborum universitate extirpanda agitur . nihil igitur impedit quominus quidam ex improborum turbâ del bati , supplicio trad●ntur . quo ●nisi●ita sit , quo fundamento verbi dei fares , homicidae , pr●ditores , & c●nsimiles ●orte mulct●n●r ? nam si salva hujus parabolae doctrina , ●i in crucem agi aut capite truncari possint , nedum baer●tici multo magis mortis poenâ plectantu● . si enim peritura bona & hanc vitam ●ripi●n●●s , &c. si principie majestatem v●olans , &c. n●dum , &c. deinde modo ita evellantur ut triticum non n●à eradicetur , bonâ cum parabob●● veniâ , ex●mi posse liquet . 〈◊〉 writing upon this par●b●e moveth this do●b● : si proh●be●ur eradicati● , 〈…〉 ad messem●enenda est pati●●is , quomodo ej●c●eadi su●t quidam de med●o nostrum ? i 'le answereth inter triticum et zizania qued nos appellamus la●ium , quamdiu bed a est & nondum culmus venit ad spicam grandis simil●tudo est , & i● d●sce●endo aut nulla aut perdiss●●● dista●ia . praemanet ergo dom●nus , ne ubi quid ambiguum est , cito s●●entiom proferamus , sed deo jud●ci terminum reservemus . th●s doth augustine argue against the donati●…s who pleaded so much for liberty of consc●…ce to themselves , and yet gave no liberty of conscience to others where they were able to hinder it . c●nt●aluer . petil. ● . . c. . noli●rgo●d . ce . c , absit ▪ absit à nostra cōsciertia , ut ad n●stram fidē aliquem compell●mus facitis enimubi potestis ; ubi autem non facitis , non potestis , sive legii sive invid●ae timore , sive resistentium multitudine . an es de cons● . l●b. . cap. . agere saepe lc●t , man●nte dub●tatione speculativa . calv. refut . error . m. serveti . gamalielis authoritas perperam abillis adducitur , &c. gamaliel amb●g●ns quid rectu● sit , quasi caecus in tenebras , neque buc n●que illuc se con●er●e audet : sed saspendi● senteatiam . in erim ex veris p●incipiis malam conseque●tiam clicit , nihil adbiben lum esse co●sisi● , quia deus quod suum est tuebitur : quod autem ab hominibus est , p●ssum ibit , &c. putidius est quam ut refu●ati●ne ind●g●a● , quod quidam ex prophanorum ho●…mnum dictis colligu●… , si de cultu dei & legis doctrina hab●tur quaestio , non esse crimen morte aut vinculis dignum . p●●●rgus in act. . sic in causae qualitate s●spensus haeret ; nec proba●e ●n●c improbare potest apostolicam doctrinam . et infra . ex judicio hominis in foro prudentis , n●utiquam theologice conclud●ndam , quod à paenis & correctionibus sit cessandu● , quia deus ad scandala tolle ida & m●la prorsus eradicanda ipse sufficiat . magistratus enim officium ex rom. v. . & aliunde notum est . piscat. non suit rectum ( gamaliclis consilium ) ratione illius connexi , si●est ex hominibus consilium sic eopu ho , disse●●tur● q●atcaus voluit collegas inde college e , ●●mig●tur esseipsis clahorandum ut opus illud dissolvant . nam etsi novationes bumano consilio & aulac●●â sasceptae , tandem dissolvnn●ur : tamen officium magistratus est , operam dare ut illas compes●ant & prohibeant , & ejusmodi novatores pro merito pumant , sed prae●u●te legitima c●gn tione causae . beza , noncertè quod evangelio faveret ( gamalicl ) nisi discipuli sui sauli fait dissimilis , ( infra . . ) sed quod homo esset moderatus & vereretur ne caedem apost●hrum contra roma●orum authoritatem factam , gravius aliquid sequertur . gualiher . perniciosissimi dogmatis occasionem hinc venantur , quo nullius conatus quantumvis improbes , nullius etiam err●res quantumvis impios & blasphemos vi coercenlos esse c●amant . vnde aliud sequi non potest quam universae disciplinae ●um politicae tum ecclesiasticae cen●ulsio : frustra enim geret magistratus gladium . kekerman . curs . philos. disp. . probl. . doth agree to these words of the jesuit becan●s . ta●●tsi princeps aut magistratus catholicus omnibus modis impedire debeat , libertaetem rel●gionis , ●t dictum est : si tamen i●l facere non pessit sine graviori incommodo boni publici , potest eam tolerare tanquam minus malum , ad evitandum majus , quod ●alioqui sequetur . polan . com . in dan. . . magistratum christimum d●cet veram rel●gionem , &c. in 〈◊〉 repub. constit●ere , & quidem solam , &c. incidunt lamen nonnunquam tempora quibus optimi reges ac magistratus , pa●is publicae retinendae causi , vita●darumque intestinarum seditionum necessitate a●ducti , c●gun●r exemplo peritorum 〈…〉 veluti tempestati cedere , & superstitiosos errantesque f●rre : ut potius aliqua & respub. & rel●gio habeatur quam nulla . both these writers doe purposely frame this answer to the question concerning toleration . calv. be●ut . error . mich. servet● . 〈◊〉 hic tene●●a est prudentia & moderatio , ne vel pro causa 〈◊〉 tamul●u 〈◊〉 esserveant principes , vel immani sevit a●d sanguinum 〈◊〉 imrua● . 〈…〉 . &c. sed timor dei , aequitas & prudentia judicis intelliget ex circumstantis quomodo punienda 〈◊〉 sedactoribus & seductis 〈…〉 & pervicax rebellio , 〈…〉 & minime 〈…〉 . magisilla persequebatur saram superbiende , quàm illam 〈…〉 : illa enim dominae 〈…〉 i●juriam , ista impen●bat superbiae disciplina . ep . beza de haeret. à magistr. . puniend. . tacco quod toties adversus 〈◊〉 istas & circumcell●●nes augustinus testatur experientia ipsa ●doctus , pl●rosque ●o esse inge●io ut nulla re magis quàm severitate in efficio contincantur : a●●ò ut quod initio poenae formidine vitae unt , id ipsum postea libenter fugiant , & asperitatem illam sibi saluberrimam faisse tes●entur . bullinger . ubi supra . dum enim fides falsa in animo sepulta latet , no● inficit quenquam nisi infidelem , puniri●● potest infidelis : ubi autem fid●s laten erumpit in blasphemias , ac deum palam ●●cerat & proximos quosque infi●it , coercendus est blasphemus & seductor , ne malum latius serpat . the papists fall very farre shor● in distinguishing the persons , and proportioning the panishments . for instance see tannerus theal . schol tom. . disp. . quaest. . dub . . n. . hac poena ( mortis ) ubi recepta est , affici , tumon nes r●lapsos , etiamsi couverti denuo veli●t , tum omnes post admonitione pert●nace● , etiamsi nunquam relapsi sint . a●● veroqui nec re●apsi sunt , nec in pertinac●a perseverunt , nec ali●s perverterunt , licet in r●gore mortem nihilominus promereantur , ordinariè tamen mortis poena assici non s●len● , sed carceris perpetui . as for that punishment commonly called irregularity , he will have it to fall not only upon the hereticke himselfe but upon his sonnes and nephewes . ib. n. . t. livius decad . l●b. . p. . edit. basil . . datum deinde consulibus negotium est , ut omnia bacchana●ia romae p●imum , deinde per to●am italiam derac . e●t : extra quau si qua ibi vetusla●ara , aut sig aum c●nsecratu● esset ; in reliquum deinde s. c. c●u●um est , ne qua bacchanalia romae , neve in ital a essent . si qui●tale sacrum s●l●nne & necessarium duceret , nec sine religione & piacul●se id omittere pisse apud prae●orem urbanum profi●er●tur : praetor senatum consuleret si ci permissum esset , cum ●n senatu centum non minus esse●t , ita id sacrum faceret , dum ne plus quinque sacrificio inttressent . judicent conscientiae vestrae , quomodo omne haeresium genus inultum permitti , multifaria schismatum scmina impunè spargi , & prophana er●orum dogmata passim in vulgus proferri possint i●●llacivitate , quae tam expresso , sancto & severo juramento sese coram d●o devinxit , ad omnes errores , h●rese , schismata è domo d●i ejicienda . gen. . , . cant. . . act. . ● . jer. . ● . ezech. . . isa. . . . joh. . . pro. . mat. . . joh. . . lev. . . pro. . . zech. . . pet. . . a second letter to a dissenter, upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence lobb, stephen, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a second letter to a dissenter, upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence lobb, stephen, d. . halifax, george savile, marquis of, - , attributed name. [ ], p. printed for john harris, at the harrow against the church in the poultrey, london : . by stephen lobb. sometimes also attributed to george savile, marquis of halifax. reproduction of the original at the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- england -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . great britain -- history -- james ii, - -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a second letter to a dissenter , upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence . london : printed for iohn harris , at the harrow against the church in the poultrey . . a second letter to a dissenter , &c. we are subject to nothing more than forgetfulness of blessings , unthankfulness for mercies , or to abuse or misuse them . when israel was delivered from egyptian slavery , they sang gods praise , but soon forgot his great goodness to them ; in their distress they cried unto god , but when he delivered them from their oppressors and oppressions , they kicked against him ; when beyond their faith or hope they were freed from their captive state in babylon , most of them contemned that mercy , and chose to continue under servitude , and only a few embraced that liberty . i hope none of you will be found to imitate them in that ungrateful obstinacy . that the obligations god by his late merciful providence of the like kind hath laid upon you , and the sence thereof , and of the blessing you have received by his majesties most gracious declaration , may remain upon you , and that you may consider what your sufferings were , and what you are delivered from , this seasonable advice is given to you , by one of your own number , that now is , and for about forty years hath been , a member of a congregational church , and purposeth so to continue unto his death . your deliverance was from the jaws of destruction ; you are brought from slavery , to a state of liberty ; the shackles of conscience , and bolts of your prisons , are knocked off , and you left free to worship god in truth , without fear ; your houses are no more rifled , nor your goods plundered , seized , or sold , nor your persons , wives , children , relations , and friends , crowded into nasty goals , on the perjuries and false informations of the dregs of the people , such who by debaucheries violated all bonds of conscience , and whose trade it was to spoil you ; men as compassionate as ravenous wolves , to whose insatiate avarice there were no bounds . you were not suffered to plead your own cause , ( the press being shut against you ) a favour heathens always allowed ; you were forced to bear all injuries , though innocent : if you complained , it increased your punishment ; if silent , you were sullen ; condemned , fined , and imprisoned , without being heard , or knowing your accusers , and that too many times for supposed crimes you were not guilty of ; ruined , banished , and destroyed , because you were unwilling to be damned for violating your consciences ; your worshipping of god as you judged according to his own appointment , was accounted a greater iniquity than adultery , perjury , atheism , or blasphemy . these were easily expiated ; but no attonement for non - conformity , or for not coming to church ; though in many parishes in and about london , the churches would not hold one third part of the parishioners . these proceedings were accounted legal , and your not conforming reckoned obstinacy , and such as deserved no pity ; nothing would evince the contrary , or that conscience was concerned therein ; loss of all the comforts of this life would not do it , and further evidence you could not give . this was your state and condition , as to your sufferings and persecutions , from which your deliverance was extraordinary and unexpected ; whereby you are at once engaged under many obligations , which if you fail to answer , will lie as a brand of infamy upon you . . you are therefore to bless and adore god , for this his great goodness and deliverance , the effect only of his merciful bounty , to whom the praise is due , and to be exprest in a godly , peaceable , meek , circumspect , humble , and fruitful conversation , that will bring glory , not only to his name and truth , but also to your profession , and establish in the consciences of your oppressors a conviction , that without any cause they unjustly persecuted you ; be not therefore wanting herein , least you provoke the lord thereby again to take this blessing from you . . thankfully to acknowledge the kings benignity and compassion ; his grace was free , and that too after many great provocations ; nor were there wanting those that so misrepresented his majesty , ( which you too readily credited ) as if he had been another nero , or caligula , that nothing but blood and cruelty was in his nature and designed by him ; and at the same time you were represented as his most implacable and irreconcileable enemies , drest up in bears skins to be baited ; and yet under these circumstances , without petition or intreaty , of his own innate goodness and clemency , he both pardoned , and freed you from merciless oppressors , and from those cruel laws , the engins made use of to debauch your consciences , deprieve you of your communion with god , and to make your lives bitter ; a more seasonable mercy could not be given , and if you are wanting in thankfulness , love , and subjection to his majesty , you will justly be branded as the most ungratefull and perfidious . . 't is incumbent on you also as men and christians , to use your utmost endeavours by all lawful ways and means to extirpate all those laws and tests , that deprieve you of this freedom , or lay any restraint on conscience in matters of religion , you accounted it your duty ( as daniel did ) to break these laws , when their keenest edge was turned against you , judging it better to obey god then men ; and shall there now be the least hesitation in your minds , as to the vacating of them ? can you desire again to be in bondage , even whilst your wounds are bleeding fresh , and your backs soar with the lashes you received from them ? will not all men brand your folly , that when you have an opportunity to be free , and nothing but your own remiss inadvertancy can continue or renew your bondage , you should be wanting to your selves herein ? who will then pity you , if your bonds are again repeated ; and can you expect otherwise , so long as these laws and tests are in force , for they have not lost their sting , nor your persecutors their malice , prejudice , and revenge ; are they not the children of their fathers , that formerly drove thousands into the american wilderness for their consciences ? are your sufferings the first persecution by these laws ? what then means the many petitions and apologies against them , made by dissenters in each kings reign since they were first enacted ? were there no ministers silenced , nor persons executed , banished , or imprisoned before your days ? and if so , by what laws ? and who were the authors or actors therein ? and will you suppose they will do so no more ? and that too when those very men whose pleasure was in your ruine , do still rage like a bear bereaved of her whelps , and curse you with bitter execrations , because restrained from their cruelty , and deprieved of their felicity , which with their debauchery , issued in your destruction , whose wrath is so boyled into envie , that they cannot forbear their threats , but set their tongues on mischief , even to the most undecent expressions of his majesty himself , for his fatherly compassions to you . . consider that when his majesties declaration of indulgence could no longer be prevented , but was published , how many stratagems and contrivances were used , and endeavours to deprieve you of the blessing and mercy thereof ; those that first addrest his majesty with thanks for his grace and clemency therein , were ( to deter others from the like ) stigmatized as the unworthiest of men , betrayers of the liberties of the nation ; as if to accept liberty on the kings declaration , was to destroy all law and property at once , when yet nothing was done therein but what all ages have recognized , as his majesties most undoubted right ( which also in a little time will beyond contradiction be made most apparent ) as to his power in dispensing with all these laws and tests . when these endeavours failed , and many followed that good example of addressing his majesty with thanks for his declaration , and openly met in their congregations to bless god for their liberty , and worshipped him according to their consciences ; praying most heartily for all blessings for his majesty : then it was more than whispered , that there were snakes in the grass ; their indulgence would be like the morning-dew ; it was but a scaffold to be taken down so soon as the building of popery was errected . the provoked church of england would turn their rods into scorpions to all that accepted this liberty , of whom lists were taken : that it was not their disposition to persecute , but they were necessitated thereunto , to comply with the government , and so could not help it ; that they would do so no more ; that it was not safe to take away the penal laws and tests , for thereby the papists would be let into parliament , and would make what laws they pleased to ruine the church of england , the bull-work of the protestant religion ; that those restraints and penalties being removed , a great part of the nation would turn roman catholicks , and could serve in all employments with impunity ; and idoliters would be tollerated , &c. for propagating these jealousies , specious and invective reasons were drawn up and dispersed ; with a report , that priests and jesuits preached in your meetings ( without instancing where or when , or the names of such preachers ) ; supposing these endeavours might again be successful as they had been in preventing the dissenters petitioning his majesty for their liberty ; and in king charles the il's time , to the rejecting his declaration of indulgence ; which gave him such provocation , as that it became an occasion of his withdrawing his tenderness and clemency to dissenters , in that they were not true and steady to their interest , and not be trusted , but consented to be as a cats paw to gratifie the humour and designs of those that sought their ruine . . all these suggestions , insinuations , and aspersion are manifestly groundless and absurd ; for if these laws and tests be taken away , what then can abridge your liberties ? men may ( as you must expect they will ) be angry but they cannot hurt you : the snake in the grass , viz. a spirit of persecution , may hiss , but not bite . the building will endure and stand as firm as a rock , and the protestant religion not shaken ; all ( but such as delight in mischief and oppression ) will rejoyce : see the blessing and benefit of liberty of conscience ! the peace and concord , the increase of trade , and prosperity to the whole nation . that the foundation of the government it self will as soon be taken , as your liberty infringed ; so that you need not fear the rage of any , or their threats of scorpions . what danger can there be of papists , or any other in parliament , when all interests will be engaged against such as shall attempt to invade this liberty ? besides , who shall elect such great numbers of papists , and where will they be chosen ? if it be supposed that they may sit by undue returns ; that may also be prevented by the very act of parliament that repeals those tests and penal statutes , and such security provided for therein , as that it shall not be in the power of any to infringe the liberties of the nation , or of any sort of people therein ; and that too by more justifiable and safer methods than those tests and penal statutes that have been the burthen and oppression of the nation ; shutting out of parliament and all places of trust , not only the papists , but also all others , which are not a few , that cannot conform to the ceremonies of the church of england ; and is it your interest to be shut out of all trusts , and rendered useless ( however otherwise quallified ) or that all honours , places , and profits , should be distributed only amongst one sort of men , many of whom have been your oppressors , and are not a little provoked at your liberty , and such as please themselves with the hopes of revenge ? the allegation , that their persecuting was to comply with the government , and that they could not help it , is manifestly absurd to all that knew his late majesties temper , who , did he brow-beat for his clemency , was he passive , 't was to please the men of the church of england ; did he at any time give directions for it , 't was at the pressing instance of their many-repeated irretating addresses , and false representations made of the dissenters . and his present majesty on his first access to his government , proposed the indulgence granted by his gracious declaration , in which he was opposed by the men of that perswasion and practice : however , they were not necessitated thereunto , but acted therein freely , either out of principle , or against conscience ; and in neither case are they again to be trusted : for the same men will re-act the same thing on the like occasion , if those laws and tests continue in force . . that liberty of conscience should bring in popery , is a paradox not to be understood by any thinking man. if popery be the effect of preaching the gospel , let popery come in : and if the learning and piety of the church of england , with their dignities , honours , livings , and fat of the land , will not preserve it , and maintain those bulworks , without tests and penal statutes , her canons of crueltie and destruction domineering over other mens consciences , and inslaving the nation to their pride and avarice , let that church fall , and no more pretend to be such an impregnable fortress . . that the papists should be so increased by taking away the tests and penalties of the law in matters of religion , is not very probable , since hope of preferment , and the princes favour , doth not now so prevail with many , though men of that perswasion serve in their employments with impunity ; but if it should have such effect , yet the church of england are no losers , since thereby they are only freed of such as would never be serviceable to them nor their interest , and at best but deceitful friends , a noxious humour in the body , fit to be purged out . . by tolerating idolaters , i suppose is intended the roman catholicks , who now dwell amongst us , have by law equal right with others to protection and their birth-rights , bound by common interest , as english-men , to desire , wish , and endeavour the welfare of the nation : and after all this , must their throats be cut , or they banished , because of their different sentiments in matters of religion ? will not such usage justifie the persecution of protestants in other countries , since there is no more difference betwixt a papist and a protestant , than there is betwixt a protestant and a papist ? we cannot here practise and justifie it our selves , and yet condemn the same thing as wicked and cruel in others ; nor can any suppose any popish opinion worse than the jews execrations and blasphemies of our saviour , and yet there 's no scruple of tolerating them : they are at worst but tares , and by christs directions such are to grow with the wheat , until the harvest ; besides , it 's the angels , not men , that must weed them out . . be true therefore to your own interest ; spare neither root nor branch of those tests nor penal statutes , they are and always have been snares , in which only consciencious men , such as scrupled impositions and humane inventions in the worship of god , have been catched ; when atheists , and men of debauched consciences , have not been bound by them . the uniformity in religion inforced by them , hath ruined many thousands . let them do no more such mischief , since the church of christ needs no such auxiliaries for its preservation ; and truth is stronger than error , without such coertion : therefore let not designing surmises and insinuations of dangers , where there are none , amuse your heads , nor weaken your hands . remember , that had nehemiah been discouraged by the like threats and surmises of sambullat and tobiah , he had never freed they jews from their oppression , nor provided for their safety , by finishing his building of the walks and city of ierusalem . there remains one suggestion more , which is commonly prest as unanswerable , viz. that considering the king's principles , 't is folly to suppose he granted his indulgence to dissenters out of kindness , 't was only to make tools of them ; nor can they trust his word , since 't is a maxim amongst the roman catholicks , that faith 's not to be kept with hereticks ; and such they account all protestants and dissenters . this will require a more distinct answer than was given to any other suggestion ; and therefore i shall be more particular therein . admitting this to be the case , yet his majesties indulgence is such a blessing , as calls for thankfulness to god and to the king ; for thereby you have your present liberty and freedom from all the slavery and oppression before-mentioned : a reprieve to a condemned man , present ease from accute pains of stone of gout , are mercies for which men are thankful to god , and the instrument by which they obtain such favors and blessings ( and surely your liberty is not of less value . ) will a condemned man reject his reprieve , because it 's not yet a full pardon , or any one a present relief , on supposition that the stone or gout may months after return upon him ? this is the worst that can be imagin'd of your case , as to your present liberty . but suppose his majesty granted this indulgence out of design , and not out of love to you , yet your condition thereby is not worse than it was ; you are sure , by woful experience , that your persecutors hated you , and causelesly sought your ruine , the other can do no more ; or is it less grievous to be ruined by cruel merciless protestant persecutors , than 't is by papists ? nor is this suggestion made out of kindness or friendship , but of hatred , mischief , and design , viz. that since they can no longer turn the edge of those penal laws against you to your ruine , they create fears and jealousies , to the end that thereby you may become so useless and ungrateful , as to turn the king's favour into displeasure ; and if this can be done , they have gained their point effectually , with an opportunity , according to their threats , to turn their rods into scorpions . do not too easily credit this suggestion ; yet make a good and profitable use of it , make the best construction , and take it as real , and carry it to his majesty : accordingly be not wanting in your thankfulness , love and dutiful subjection and obedience to him , that so his majesty may have a full satisfaction that his favours are not bestowed on an ungrateful and obstinate people . and let this suggestion become an incitation to more circumspection : hereby you will disappoint the designs of your enemies , and so prevail on his majesty , that if it could be supposed that he was not yet real to you , he would become so ; for he is not impenitrable , nor is he uncapable of understanding his own interest : and if he finds you men useful and serviceable to a common interest , and fit to be trusted , you need not fear being made tools of . but since the suggestion is made , if there 's any truth therein , it becomes absolutely necessary , according to the advice already given , to take your first opportunity to root out those penal statutes and tests ; that so they may be no more the instruments of destruction , either in the hand of the king , or any other that desires your ruine ; until then , you are ruined by law ; and your persecutors justified therein : but when these laws and tests are abrogated , they will be as cautious therein , as they are in the breach of any other law , as to theft or murther . so that your security and liberty is to be established in , and by the vacating these laws and tests . for that part of the suggestion , that there 's no trust to be put in the king's word , since faith is not to be kept with heriticks : you have much more than his majesty's bare word for your liberty ; hath he not by his declaration removed your fears , and to his own satisfaction , thereby errect his throne in your hearts ? what else means his gracious acceptance of the many addresses of thanks presented to him , for his gracious declaration ; and his condescending , obliging , and gracious answers thereunto ; his dismissing out of his service ( how useful soever ) such as would not by any means be reconciled thereunto ; and trusting and imploying those that are for establishing by law , this liberty ; and encouraging all to concur with him therein ; he desires and designs you should not onely have his word , but a magna charta for security of liberty of conscience , as well as you have for your properties ? if his majesty did not intend as real , and as high a security for your liberty , as he can give ; he hath acted most impolitickly : what need was there then of publishing , in his declaration , the grounds and reasons on which he granted his indulgence ? which are so weighty , and such as will abide the severest test. hath he not thereby exposed himself , his honour , and glory , to the highest sensure and obliquie , both at home and in all nations , if he violates his word ? hath he not laid the greatest obligations on himself , to assure the whole world that he will be true and steady thereunto ? what need else was there of publishing those reasons , since a bare indulgence without them , might have served a turn ? or what reason is there for his frequent solemn promises to make it good ? why else is it a pleasing and delightful subject to him to be commonly talking and discoursing of , and of the benefits and blessings that will accrue thereby to the nation ? these things , if not real , are inconsistent with a prudent politick prince , and below the common sentiments of an ordinary man. before we can imagine his majesty is not fully resolved to make good his declaration , we must suppose him to be a man that hath no zeal for , nor sense of his religion , nor for the men of his own perswasion : and this cannot be supposed by any that knows him , and how constant he is at his devotions , and how he adventured three kingdoms for his religion , when wind and tide ran most violently against him : would he but have dissembled his religion , or quitted it or his party , he might have been the darling of those times ; but he chose to run the greatest risks and dangers , rather than not to appear what he was . and shall we , after this , imagine he will have no regard to his word , nor provide for the safety of his party , which else so soon as he dies , must be exposed to the uttermost ruine , and to the rage and fury of these laws and tests . we have also besides his majesties word , the highest security he can give for our liberties ; we have not onely the particulars before mentioned , but also with his word , we have his interest , which will not lye : so that if his word were of no force , yet he is bound by interest to make it good . doth not his majesty know , that the dissenters are not a sort of treacherous cowardly men ; where 's the instance that any of them ever betrayed their trust , or refused any service they undertook , or were called unto , how perilous so ever ? are they droans that live by the sweat of other mens brows ; or rather , are they not painful and industrious , addicted to trade and manufactories ? is not a great part of the trade of the nation managed by them , whereby the poor are imployed , his majesties customs and revenues increased ? nor are they an inconsiderable number of his majesties subjects ; so that to part with them , he must part with a great part of his strength and treasure , in which his glory and security consists : which happily was no small consideration with his majesty , when he published his declaration . and this remains as an additional security unto his majesties word ; and so much the rather , because he hath aspiring neighbours who will readily embrace all opportunities of increasing their numbers , especially such as bring wealth , trade , and manufactories with them : of which they were in hopes , and so blew the coals of our late persecution , until his majesty happily extinguished them by his healing declaration , and thereby called home many that on great incouragements were setling amongst them . though some of the roman catholicks have asserted that maxim , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ; yet god forbid there should not be a man of truth found amongst them ; or that the opinion of some should be charged on all : what principle or party of men , can then be trusted ? are all the church of england cruel merciless persecutors , because some of them are so ( and that not a few of them neither ) ? are they all socinians ? and yet they are greatly belyed if there are not some such amongst them . are they all debauched , or guilty of adultery , atheism , blasphemy , and murther ? and yet there are such to be found in that church . besides , his majesty is not onely willing , but most desirous to put it beyond his power to break the word and faith of his declaration : what can he do ( or is not ready and willing to do ) to give farther satisfaction herein ? let any man rationally propound it , and let his majesty refuse the same , before this , or such like surmises be credited . is he not willing and desirous that an equal liberty to all should grow up with , and be twisted in his government ? doth he not establish his throne on that basis ? hath he made any limitations or restrictions therein , to exclude any for their religious sentiments ? hath he ever solicited any man to change his opinion and become roman catholique , to increase his party ? who , or where is the instance of this kind ? hath he ever brow-beaten any man for his opinion ? and i am confident he will most readily concur with his parliament on the largest and comprehensivest terms for securing this liberty : and then it will not be in his , nor any other man's power to break this faith , any more than it is to subvert the government it self : shall all men be trusted on their bare word ; and shall his majesties solemn repeated word and promise ( that ought to be accounted sacred ) be no security , thô real instances , strong and most weighty obligations are conjoyned therewith . where is that person of any note or figure in the world , that would be so used for his kindness and benignity ? the persons that make these , and such like suggestions , are unworthy of his majesties goodness ; nor are there any but ignorant , wicked , and malitious men that will give them entertainment . you have other work incumbent on you , viz. since you have now full liberty to worship god without any imposition on your consciences , make conscience to be found in the constant practice of his worship ; live not in the neglect thereof , for that 's a contempt of the mercy god hath given you : was the truth and religious worship , worth the adventuring all you had for ? 't is not of less value because it now comes to you at a cheaper rate : do not turn scepticks , nor grow remiss in religion ; that 's the way to loose the blessing of your mercies ; but whilst you have seasons and opportunities , make conscience to improve them diligently . hearken not to any councels , nor give way to any passions that tend to stir up quarrels , contentions , or divisions ; this will deprive you of this liberty , or of its blessing , to the gratifying of the devil and your adversaries ; who for carrying on such designs , will take on them new shapes , and deal by you , as the samaritans did with the iews ; cover their designed malice with a cloak of pretended charity and friendship ; your strength is in concord , and whilst you mind a common interest , your enemies cannot hurt you . let not an imposing spirit or principle be found amongst you ; for that 's a persecution in its kind , as well as mulcts , prisons , and blood , but bear with , and forbear each other , notwithstanding differences in judgments , or incitations to the contrary ; this is the spirit of christ , and of his gospel , to which you ought to be reconciled ; for you profess to walk by christ's rule , to do to others , as you would be done by ; and not to censure and judge others for differing sentiments ; which will always be , until we come to the same degree and measure of knowledge ; a state not to be expected on this side heaven : till then let charity ( which is the bond of your perfection here ) knit you together in the pursuit of holiness and concord . remembring always , that the bond of conscience binds all other men as well as yours binds you : and if it were grievous to you to be opprest herein by enemies ; can it be easie to another to be in any respect so opprest by you , that ought to be friends ? will you contradict your own professed principles , to gratifie your enemies and your lusts ; and grieve your friends to the prejudice of your own interests ? when haply the matters contended for , may be some obstruse notions , not determinable by the ablest and most learned . consider that since conscience ( though erronious ) binds both to principles and practice ; and acting contrary thereunto , is sinful : it s not possible that one man's conscience can be affected or polluted simply by another man's principle or practice ; otherwise to avoid sin , we must sin against our own consciences , or by our dictates , force other mens consciences ; or sin wilfully to avoid the supposed guilt of another man's : let therefore that noble principle be maintained , and not in the least infringed . . consider that an imposing spirit , under which we lately groaned , is the very spawn and spirit of antichrist , the sourse of all impiety and cruelty ; to which appertains the iniquity and guilt of all the bloud of the prophets , apostles , martyrs , and millions of christ's servants ; what wars , confusions , and disolations hath this spirit always made in the world ? robing it of its peace and tranquility , bringing glorious churches into confusion , wasting and impoverishing mighty monarchs and kingdoms ; when , on the contrary , poor and contemptible states , by cherishing this principle of liberty of conscience , have continued their peace , and grown to greatness of power and wealth . shall we , that have wofully experienced the verity hereof , approve the contrary , or in any measure contract this guilt ? is that lawful , commendable , or a vertue in you , which is hateful , wicked , and abominable in others ? do not justifie your adversaries in all their cruelties and inhumanities , by making and imposing your understanding and practice as a guide or measure for other men ; for thereby every one becomes a dictator , for what 's lawful for one , is lawful for every man. do not therefore , on pretence of conscience , multiply nor streighten the terms of communion , nor make new articles of faith and communion ; let those christ hath left in his word suffice , lest out of blind zeal you turn , and keep out of the way , those that christ would have gathered and cherished . . finally , do not studie revenge , for that appertains to god ; let not your spirits boil up into prejudice against those that have injured you ; give no opprobrious provoking expressions , that 's uncomly for christians ; remember your lord and master reviled not again , but meekly and patiently endured the contradiction of sinners ; walk as you have him for your example ; pray for your persecutors , as christ did ; forgive your wrongs ; walk holily to god , and righteously to men ; live up to your profession : hereby you will stop the mouth of envy , and possess the blessing of this day of your liberty , and god will continue your tranquility . amen . postscript . it 's not my province , to enquire into the times , occasions , or reasons , on which the penal laws and tests were made , nor whether they are not ( especially the tests ) against gods word , the indispencible , immutable , and moral law of god , common right , iustice , equity , and law of the land ( though this will be enquired into , and published ; ) only this is most apparent , that by the act by which the test is established , the sacrament ( the most sacred gospel ordinance of christ ) is profanely made subservient to carnal and secular ends and purposes , and designed to incapasitate his majesty from having any servant about him ( how useful or necessary soever ) but such as either in reality or hypocrisie conforms to the ceremonies of the church of england ; or to reward any other for any service , though it should be the preservation of his life , crown , or kingdom ; or to employ them in any service , how fit or important soever : whereby , in effect , he is rendered to be king only of some part of his subjects , and haply not of the greatest part of them neither ; nor can he advise in council , for his own preservation , or common good and safety of his kingdom , with any other sort of men , nor dispense the iustice of the nation by any other hands ; whereby also it 's in their power , at any time , without comptrole , to impose what terms and inconveniencies they please on the king and kingdom , and to make both his majesty and all others truckle to them . on this consideration , many are content to part with all the penal laws , but struggle for the test , as knowing that it capacitates them at any time to revive again those laws , or to make worse , if worse can be made , and to subject all men to what state and condition they please : therefore never account the nation free , but subjected to an iron yoke , and your selves to be lashed with scorpions for your consciences , until these tests and penal statutes are abrogated , and thereby both his majesty and every body else absolutely freed from them . the end . the french king's decree against protestants, prohibiting them the exercise of their religion, &c. to which is added a brief and true account of the cruel persecution and inhumane oppressions of those of the reformed religion to make them abjure and apostatize : together with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to, and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburgh ... : also a letter from father la chese ... to father petre ... / newly translated from the french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the french king's decree against protestants, prohibiting them the exercise of their religion, &c. to which is added a brief and true account of the cruel persecution and inhumane oppressions of those of the reformed religion to make them abjure and apostatize : together with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to, and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburgh ... : also a letter from father la chese ... to father petre ... / newly translated from the french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. friedrich wilhelm, elector of brandenburg, - . la chaise, françois d'aix de, - . louis xiv, king of france, - . p. printed for the author and sold by the booksellers of london and westminster, london : . revocation of the edict of nantes, dated october , . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng henry -- iv, -- king of france, - . france. -- edit de nantes. protestants -- france -- early works to . freedom of religion -- france -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the french king's decree against protestants , prohibiting them the exercise of their religion , &c. to which is added a brief and true account of the cruel persecvtion and inhumane oppressions of those of the reformed religion , to make them abjure and apostatize . together with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to . and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburgh in favour of those of the reformed religion , who shall think fit to settle themselves in any of his dominions . also a letter from father la chese , confessor to the french king , to father petre , jesuit and great almoner to the king of england , upon the method or rule he must observe with his majesty , for the conversion of his protestant subjects in england , &c. newly translated from the french. licensed , january . / . london , printed for the author , and sold by the booksellers of london and westminster , . a decree of the king , prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom , wherein he recalls and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry iv , his grandfather , given at nantes , full of most gracious concessions to protestants . lewes , by the grace of god , king of france and of navarre , to all present and to come , greeting . king henry the great , our grand-father of glorious memory , desiring to prevent , that the peace which he had procured for his subjects , after the great losses they had sustained , by the long continuance of civil and foreign wars , might not be disturbed by occasion of the pretended reformed religion , as it had been during the reign of the kings , his predecessors ; had , by his edict given at nantes , in the month of april , . regulated the conduct which was to be observed , with respect to those of the said religion , the places where they might publickly exercise the same , appointed extraordinary judges to administer justice to them : and lastly , also by several distinct articles , provided for every thing , which he judged needful for the maintenance of peace and tranquility in his kingdom , and to diminish the aversion which was between those of the one and other religion : and this , to the end that he might be in a better condition for the taking some effectual course ( which he was resolved to do ) to re-unite those again to the church , who upon so slight occasions had withdrawn themselves from it . and forasmuch as this intention of the king , our said grand-father , could not be effected , by reason of his sudden and precipitated death ; and that the execution of the foresaid edict was interrupted during the minority of the late king , our most honored lord and father , of glorious memory , by reason of some new enterprizes of those of the pretended reformed religion , whereby they gave occasion for their being deprived of several advantages , which had been granted to them , by the aforesaid edict : notwithstanding , the king , our said late lord and father , according to his wonted clemency , granted them another edict at nismes , in the month of july , by means of which the peace and quiet of the kingdom being now again re established , the said late king , being animated with the same spirit and zeal for religion , as the king our said grand-father was , resolved to make good use of this tranquility , by endeavouring to put this pious design in execution : but wars abroad , coming on a few years after , so that from the year . to the truce which was concluded with the princes of europe , in . the kingdom having been only for some short intervals altogether free from troubles , it was not possible to do any other thing for the advantage of religion , save only to diminish the number of places permitted for the exercise of the pretended reformed religion , as well by the interdiction of those which were found erected , in prejudice to the disposal made in the said edict , as by suppressing the mixt chambers of judicature , which were composed of an equal number of papists and protestants ; the erecting of which was only done by provision , and to serve the present exigency . whereas therefore , at length , it hath pleased god to grant , that our subjects enjoying a perfect peace , and we our selves being no longer taken up with the cares of protecting them against our enemies , are now in a condition to make good use of the said truce , which we have on purpose facilitated , in order to the applying our selves entirely to the searching out of means , which might successfully effect and accomplish the design of the kings , our said grand-father and father , and which also hath been * our intention ever since we came to the crown ; we see at present , ( not without a just acknowledgment of what we owe to god on that account ) that our endeavours have attained the end we propos'd to our selves for as much as the greater and better part of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , have already embraced the catholick ; and since by means thereof the execution of the edict of nantes , and of all other ordinances in favour of the said pretended reformed religion , is become useless , we judge that we can do nothing better towards the entire effacing of the memory of those troubles confusions , and mischief , which the progress of that false religion have been the cause of in our kingdom , and which have given occasion to the said edict , and to so many other edicts and declarations which went before it , or were made since with reference thereto , than by a total revocation of the said edict of nantes , and the particular articles and concessions granted therein , and whatsoever else hath been enacted since , in favour of the said religion . i. we make known , that we , for these and other reasons usthereto moving , and of our certain knowledge , full power and authority royal , have by the present perpetual and irrevocable edict , suppressed and annulled , do suppress and annul the edict of the king , our said grand-father , given at nantes , in april . in its whole extent , together with the particular articles ratified may . next following , and letters patent granted thereupon ; as likewise the edict given at nismes , in july . declaring them null and void , as if they had never been enacted ; together with all the concessions granted in them , as well as other declarations , edicts and arrests , to those of the pretended reformed religion , of what nature soever they may be , which shall all continue as if they never had been . and in pursuance hereof , we will , and it is our pleasure , that all the churches of those of the pretended reformed religion , scituate in our kingdom , countries , lands , and dominions belonging to us , be forth with demolish'd . ii. we forbid our subjects of the pretended reformed religion , to assemble themselves , for time to come , in order to the exercise of their religion in any place or house , under what pretext soever , whether the said places have been granted by the crown , or permitted by the judges of particular places ; any arrests of our council , for authorizing and establishing of the said places for exercise , notwithstanding . iii. we likewise prohibit all lords , of what condition soever they may be , to have any publick exercise in their houses and fiess , of what quality soever the said fiess may be , upon penalty to all our said subjects , who shall have the said exercises performed in their houses or otherwise , of confiscation of body and goods . iv. we do strictly charge and command all ministers of the said pretended reformed religion , who are not willing to be converted , and to embrace the catholick , apostolick and roman religion , to depart out of our kingdom and countries under our obedience , days after the publication hereof , so as not to continue there beyond the said term , or within the same , to preach , exhort , or perform any other ministerial function , upon pain of being sent to the galleys . v. our will and pleasure is , that those ministers who shall be converted , do continue to enjoy during their lives , and their widows after their decease , as long as they continue so , the same exemptions from payments and quartering of souldiers , which they did enjoy during the time of their exercise of the ministerial function . moreover , we will cause to be paid to the said ministers , during their lives , a pension , which by a third part shall exceed the appointed allowance to them as ministers ; the half of which pension shall be continued to their wives , after their decease , as long as they shall continue in the state of widow-hood . vi. and in case any of the said ministers shall be willing to become advocates , or to take the degree of doctors in law , we will and understand that they be dispensed with , as to the three years of study , which are prescribed by our declarations , as requisite , in order to the taking of the said degree ; and that , after they have pass'd the ordinary examinations , they be forthwith received as doctors , paying only the moiety of those dues , which are usually paid upon that account in every university . vii . we prohibit any particular schools for instructing the children of those of the pretended reformed religion ; and in general , all other things whatsoever , which may import a concession , of what kind soever , in favour of the said religion . viii . and as to the children which shall for the future be born of those of the said pretended reformed religion , our will and pleasure is , that henceforward they be baptized by the curates of our parishes ; strictly charging their respective fathers and mothers to take care they be sent to church in order thereto , upon forfeiture of livres , or more , as it shall happen futhermore , our will is , that the said children be afterwards educated and brought up in the catholick apostolick and roman religion , and give an express charge to all our justices , to take care the same be performed accordingly . ix . and for a mark of our clemency towards those of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , who have retired themselves out of our kingdom , countries and territories , before the publication of this our present edict , our will and meaning is , that in case they return thither again , within the time of four months , from the time of the publication hereof , they may , and it shall be lawful for them , to re-enter upon the possession of their goods and estates , and enjoy the same in like manner , as they might have done , in case they had always continued upon the place . and on the contrary , that the goods of all those , who within the said time of four months , shall not return into our kingdom , countries , or territories under our obedience , which they have forsaken , remain and be confiscated in pursuance of our declaration of the th . of august last . x. we most expresly and strictly forbid all our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , them , their wives or children , to depart out of our said kingdom , countries , territories under our obedience , or to transport thence their goods or effects , upon penalty of the gally , for men , and confiscation of body and goods for women . xi . our will and meaning is , that the declaration made against those who shall relapse , be executed upon them according to their form and tenor. ☞ moreover , those of the said pretended reformed religion , in the mean time , till it shall please god to enlighten them , as well as others , may abide in the several respective cities and places of our kingdoms , countries , and territories under our obedience , and there continue their commerce , and enjoy their goods and estates , without being any way molested upon account of the said pretended reformed religion ; upon condition nevertheless , as aforementioned , that they do not use any publick religious exercise , nor assemble themselves upon the account of prayer or worship of the said religion , of what kind soever the same may be , upon forfeiture above specified of body and goods . accordingly , we will and command our trusty and beloved counsellors , the people holding our courts of aids at paris , bayliffs , chief justices , provosts , and other our justices and officers to whom it appertains , and to their lieutenants , that they cause to be read , published , and registred , this our present edict in their courts and jurisdictions , even in vacation time , and the same keep punctually without contrevening or suffering the same to be contrevened ; for such is our will and pleasure . and to the end to make it a thing firm and stable , we have caused our seal to be put to the same . given at fountainbleau , in the month of october , in the year of grace , and of our reign the xliii . signed lewes . le tellier . visa . this signifies the lord chancellors perusal . sealed with the great seal of green-wax , upon a red and green string of silk . registred and published , the king's attorney general requiring it , in order to their being executed according to form and tenor ; and the copies being examined and compared , sent to the several courts of justice , bailywicks , and sheriffs courts of each district , to be there entred and registred in like manner ; and charge given to the deputies of the said attorney general , to take care to see the same executed , and put in force ; and to certifie the court thereof . at paris , in the court of vacations , the th , of october . signed de la baune . a letter of the french king to the elector of brandenburgh , sept. . . brother , i would not have discoursed the matter you write to me about , on the behalf of my subjects of the pretended reformed religion , with any other prince , besides your self : but to shew you the particular esteem i have for you , i shall begin with telling you , that some persons , disaffected to my service , have spread seditious pamphlets among strangers ; as if the acts and edicts that were pass'd ▪ in favour of my said subjects of the pretended reformed religion , by the kings my predecessors , and confirm'd by my self , were not kept and executed in my dominions ; which would have been contrary to my intentions : for i take care that they be maintained in all the priviledges , which have been granted them , and be as kindly us'd as my other subjects . to this i am engaged both by my royal word , and in acknowledgment of the proofs they have given me of their loyalty , during the late troubles , in which they took up arms for my service , and did vigorously oppose , and successfully overthrow the ill designs which a rebellious party were contriving within my own dominions , against my authority royal. i pray god , &c. brother , &c. a short account of the violent proceedings , and unheard of cruelties , which have been exercised upon those of montauban , and which continue to be put in practice in other places , against those of the reformed religion in france , for to make them renounce their religion . on saturday the / ●th of august , . the intendant of the upper guienne , who resides at montauban , having summoned the principal protestants of the said city to come before him , represented unto them , that they could not be ignorant , that the absolute will and pleasure of the king was , to tolerate but one religion in his kingdom , viz. the roman catholick religion ; and therefore wished them readily to comply with the same : and in order thereto , advised them to assemble themselves , and consider what resolution they would take . to this resolution some answer'd , that there was no need of their assembling themselves upon that account ; for a smuch as every one of them in particular , were to try and examine themselves , and be alwaies in a readiness to give a reason of the faith which was in them . the next day the intendant again commanded them to meet together in the town house , which , he ordered , should be left free for them from noon till six of the clock in the evening : where meeting accordingly , they unanimously resolved as they had lived , so to persist till death in their religion : which resolution of theirs there were some deputed by them to declare to the intendant ; who presenting themselves before him , he who was appointed spokesman , began to address himself to the intendant in these words : my lord , we are not unacquainted , how we are menaced with the greatest violence . — hold there , said the intendant ( interrupting him ) no violence . after this the protestant continued ; but whatever force or violence may be put upon us , — here the intendant interrupting him again , said , i forbid you to use any such words : upon which second interruption , he contented himself to assure him in few words , that they were all resolved to live and die in their religion . the day after , the battalion of la ferre , consisting of companies entred the city , and were followed by many more . the testants all this while dreaming of no other design they had against them , but that of ruining their estates , and impoverishing them , had already taken some measures how to bear the said tryal ; they had made a common purse , for the relief of such who should be most burthen'd with quartering ; and were come to a resolution to possess what they had in common : but , alas ! how far these poor souls were mistaken in their accounts , and how different the treatment they received from the dragoons was , from what they had expected , i shall now relate to you . first therefore , in order to their executing the design and project they had formed against them , they made the souldiers take up their quarters in one certain place of the city ; but withal , appointed several corp de guards to cut off the communication which one part of the city might have with the other , and possess'd themselves of the gates , that none might make their escape . things being thus ordered , the troopers souldiers and dragoons began to practise all manner of hostilities , and cruelties , wherewith the devil can inspire the most in human and reprobate minds : they mar●'d and defac'd their houshold ▪ stuff , broke their looking-glasses , and other like utensils and ornaments ; they let their wine run about their cellars , cast abroad and spoil'd their corn , and other alimentary provisions : and as for those things which they could not break and dash to pieces , as the furniture of beds , hangings , tapistry , linnen , wearing apparel , plate , and things of the like nature ; these they carried to the market-place , where the jesuits bought them of the souldiers , and encouraged roman catholicks to do the like . they did not stick to sell the very houses of such , who were most resolute and constant in their profession . it is supposed , according to a moderate calculation , that in the time of four or five daies , the protestants of that city were the poorer by a million of money , than they were before the entring of these missionaries . there were souldiers , who demanded four hundred crowns apiece of their hosts for spending-money ; and many protestants were forced to pay down ten pistols to each souldier , upon the some account . in the mean time , the outrages they committed upon their persons were most detestable and barbarous ; i shall only here set down some few , of which i have been particularly inform'd . a certain taylor called bearnois , was bound and drag'd by the souldiers to the corp de guard , where they boxed and buffetted him all night , all which blows and indignities he suffered with the greatest constancy imaginable . the troopers who quartered with monsieur solignac made his dining room a stable for their horses , tho the furniture of it was valued at livres , and forc'd him to turn the broach till his arm was near burnt , by their continual casting of wood upon the fire . a passenger as he went through the said city saw some souldiers beating a poor man even to death , for to force him to go to mass , whilst the constant martyr to his last breath , cryed , he would never do it , and only requested they would dispatch and make an end of him . the barons of caussade and de la motte , whose constancy and piety might have inspired courage and resolution to the rest of the citizens , were sent away to cahors . monsieur d' alliez , one of the prime gentlemen of montanban , being a venerable old man , found so ill ▪ treatment at their hands , as it 's thought he will scarcely escape with life . monsieur ▪ de garrison , who was one of the most considerable men of that city , and an intimate friend of the intendant , went and cast himself at his feet , imploring his protection , and conjuring him to rid him of his souldiers , that he might have no force put upon his conscience ; adding , that in recompence of the favour he beg'd of him , he would willingly give him all he had , which was to the value of about a million of livres ; but by all his entreaties and proffers , he could not in the least prevail with the intendant ; who gave order , that for a terror to the meaner sort , he should be worse used than the rest , by dragging him along the streets . the method they most commonly made use of , for to make them abjure their religion , and which could not be the product of any thing but hell , was this ; some of the most strong and vigorous souldiers , took their hosts , or other persons of the house , and walk'd them up and down in some chamber , continually tickling them and tossing them like a ball from one to another , without giving them the least intermission , and keeping them in this condition for three daies and nights together , without meat , drink , or sleep : when they were so wearied and fainting , that they could no longer stand upon their legs , they laid them on a bed , continuing as before to tickle and torment them ; after some time , when they thought them somewhat recovered , they made them rise , and walked them up and down as before , sometimes tickling , and other times lashing them with rods , to keep them from sleeping . as soon as one party of these barbarous tormenters were tyred and wearied out , they were relieved by others of their companions , who coming fresh to the work , with greater vigour and violence reiterated the same course . by this infernal invention ( which they had formerly made use of , with success ; in bearn and other places many went dictracted , and others became mopish and stupid , and remain so . those who made their escape , were fain to abandon their estates , yea , their wives , children , and aged relations , to the mercy of these barbarous , and more than savage troops . the same cruelties were acted at negreplisse , a city near to montauban ; where these bloody emissaries committed unparallel'd outrages . isaac favin , a citizen of that place , was hung up by his arm-pits , and tormented a whole night , by pinching and tearing off his flesh with pincers ; though by all this they were not able to shake his constancy in the least . the wife of one rouffion , a joyner , being violently dragg'd by the souldiers along the streets , for to force her to hear mass , dyed of this cruel and inhumane treatment , as soon as she reach'd the church porch . amongst other their devilish inventions , this was one : they made a great fire round about a boy of about ten years of age ; who continually , with hands and eyes lifted up to heaven , cryed , my god , help me ; and when they saw the lad resolved to dye so , rather than renounce his religion , they snatch'd him from the fire , when he was at the very point of being burnt . the cities of caussade , realville , st. anthonin , and other towns and places in the upper guinne , met with the same entertainment , as well as bergerac , and many other places of perigord , and of the lower guinne ; which had a like share of these cruel and inhumane usages . the forementioned troops marched at last to castres , to commit the same insolencies and barbarities there also : and it is not to be doubted , but that they will continue , and carry on the same course of cruelties , where ever they go ; if god , in pity and compassion to his people , do not restrain them . it is to be feared , ( for it seems but too probable ) that this dreadful persecution in conjunction with those artifices the papists make use of to disguise their religion , and to perswade protestants , that they shall be suffered to worship god as formerly , will make many to comply with them , or at least make their mouths give their hearts the lye , in hopes of being by this means put into a condition to make their escapes , and returning to that profession , which their weakness hath made them deny . but , alas ! this is not all ; for those poor wretches , whom by these devilish ways of theirs , they have made to blaspheme and abjure their religion , as if this were not enough , must now become the persecutors and tormentors of their own wives and children , for to oblige and force them to renounce also ; for they are threatned , that if within three days time they do not make their whole family recant in like manner , those rough apostles ( the dragoons ) shall be fain to take further pains with them , in order to the perfecting of their conversion . and who after all this can have the least doubt , but that these unhappy dragoons are the very emissaries of hell , whose very last efforts and death struglings these seem to be ? this relation hath given a short view of some of those sufferings , the reformed have undergone , but not of all : it is certain , that in divers places they have tryed to wear out their patience , and overcome their constancy by applying red-hot irons to the hands and feet of men , and to the breasts of women . at nantes they hung up several women and maids by their feet , and others by their arm-pits , and that stark naked , thus exposing them to publick view , which assuredly is the most cruel and exquisite suffering can befall that sex ; because in this case their shamefac'dness and modesty is most sensibly touched , which is the most tender part of their soul. they have bound mothers that gave suck unto posts , and let their little infants lye languishing in their sight , without being suffered to suckle them for several days , and all this while left them crying , moaning , and gasping for life , and even dying for hunger & thirst , that by this means they might vanquish the constancy of their tender-hearted mothers , swearing to them they would never permit they should give them suck till they promised to renounce their profession of the gospel . they have taken children of four or five years of age , and kept them from meat and drink for some time , and when they have heen ready to faint away and give up the ghost , they have brought them before their parents , and horribly asseverated , that except they would turn , they must prepare themselves to see their children languish and dye in their presence . some they have bound before a great fire , and being half roasted , have after let them go : they beat men and women outragiously ; they drag them along the streets , and torment them day and night . the ordinary way they took , was to give them no rest ; for the souldiers do continually relieve one another for to drag , beat , torment and toss up and down these miserable wretches , without intermission . if it happen that any by their patience and constancy do stand it out , and triumph over all the rage and fury of those dragoons , they go to their commander and acquaint him , they have done all they could , but yet without the desired success ; who in a barbarous and surly tone , answers them ; you must return upon them , and do worse than you have done ; the king commands it ; either they must turn , or i must burst and perish in the attempt . these are the pleasant flowry paths , by which the papists allure protestants to return to the bosome of their church . but some it may be will object ; you make a great noise about a small matter , all protestants have not been exposed to these cruelties , but only some few obstinate persons : well , i will suppose so , but yet the horror of those torments inflicted on some , hath so fill'd the imagination of these miserable wretches , that the very thoughts of them hath made them comply ; it is indeed a weakness of which we are ashamed for their sakes , and from whence we hope god will raise them again , in his due time ; yet thus much we may alledge for their excuse , that never was any persecution , upon pretence of religion , carried on to that pitch , and with that politick malice and cruelty that this hath been ; and therefore , of all those which ever the church of christ groan'd under , none can can be compar'd with it . true indeed it is , that in former ages it hath been common to burn the faithful under the name of hereticks ; but how few were there exposed to that cruel kind of death , in comparison of those who escaped the executioners hands ? but , behold here a great people at once oppress'd , destroy'd , and ruin'd by a vast army of prodigious butchers , and few or none escaping . former , yea late times have given us some instances of massacres ; but these were only violent tempests , and sudden hurricanes , which lasted but a night , or , at the most , a few daies , and they who suffered in them were soon out of their pains , and the far greater number escaped the dint of them : but how much more dreadful is the present condition of the protestants in france ? and to the end we may take a true view and right measures of it , let us consider , that nothing can be conceived more terrible , than a state of war ; but what war to be compared with this ? they see a whole army of butcherly cannibals entring their houses , bateering , breaking , burning , and destroying whatever comes to hand ; swearing , cursing and blaspheming like devils ; beating to excess , offering all manner of indignities and violence ; diverting themselves , and striving to out-vy each other in inventing new methods of pain and torment ; not to be appeased with money , or good chear ; foaming and roaring like ravenous raging lyons ; and presenting death , at every moment ; and that which is worse than all this , driving people to distraction , and senseless stupidity , by those devilish inventions we have given you an instance of in the relation of mentauban . moreover , this persecution hath one characteristical note more ; which , without any exaggeration , will give it the precedence in history for cruelty , above all those which the church of god ever suffered under nero , maximinus , or dieclesian ; which is , the severe prohibition of departing the kingdom , upon pain of confiscation of goods , of the gally , of the lash , and perpetual imprisonment . all the sea-ports are kept with that exactness , as if it were to hinder the escape of traytors , and common enemies : all the prisons of sea-port-towns are cramm'd with these miserable fugitives , men women , boys , and girls ; who there are condemned to the worst of punishments , for having had a desire to save themselves from this dreadful persecution , and deluging calamity . this is the thing which is unparallel'd ; and of which we find no instance : this is that superlative excess of cruelty , which we shall not find in the list of all the violent and bloody proceedings of the duke of alva : he massacred , he beheaded , he butchered ; but at least , he did not prohibit those that could , to make their escape . in the last hungarian persecution , nothing was required of the protestants , but only that their ministers should banish themselves , and abandon and renounce the conduct of their flocks ; and because they were unwilling to obey these orders , therefore it is they have groan'd under so long , and so terrible a persecution , as they have done , but this hungarian persecution is not to be compared with that we are speaking of ; for the fury of that tempest discharged it self upon the ministers only ; no armies were imploy'd , to force the people to change their religion , by a thousand several waies of torment ; much less did it ever enter the thoughts of the emperors councel , to shut up all the protestants in hungary , in order to the destroying of all those who would not abjure their religion ; which yet is the very condition of so many wretched persons in france , who beg it as the highest favour at the hands of their merciless enemies , to have leave to go and beg their bread in a foreign country ; being willing to leave their goods , and all other outward conveniencies , behind them , for to lead a poor , miserable , languishing life in any place , where only they may be suffered to dye in their religion . and is it not from all this most ●●parent , that those monsters who have inspired the king with th●●● designs , have refin'd the mystery of persecuting to the utmost , and advanc'd it to its highest pitch of perfection ? o great god! who from thy heavenly throne doest behold all the outrages done to thy people , haste thee to help us ! great god , whose compassions are infinite , suffer thy self to be touched with our extream desolation ! if men be insensible of the calamities we suffer , if they be deaf to our cries , not regarding our grones and supplications ; yet let thy bowels , o lord , be moved , and affect thee in our behalf . glorious god , for whose names sake we suffer all these things , who knowest our innocence and weakness , as well as the fury and rage of our adversaries , the small support and help we find in the world : behold , we perish , if thy pity doth not rouze thee up for our relief . it is thou art our rock , our god , our father , our deliverer : we do not place our confidence in any , but thee alone : let us not be confounded , because we put our trust in thee . haste thee to our help ; make no long tarrying , o lord , our god , and our redeemer ! a letter sent from bourdeaux , giving an account of the persecution of those of the protestant religion in france . sir , what you have heard concerning the persecution of those that are of our religion , in the land of bearne , guinne , and berigord , is but too true ; and i can assure you , that they who have given you that account , have been so far from amplifying the matter , that they have only acquainted you with some few particulars ; yet am i not so much surprized at the difficulty you find to perswade your self , that the things of which your friends inform you , are true : in cases of this nature , so amazingly unexpected , we are apt often to distrust our own eyes ; and i profess to you , that though all places round about us echo the report of our ruine and destruction , yet i can scarcely perswade my self it is so indeed , because i cannot comprehend it . it is no matter of surprize , or amazement , to see the church of christ afflicted upon earth , forasmuch as she is a stranger here , as well as her captain , lord and husband , the holy and everlasting blessed jesus was ; and must , like him , by the same way of cross and suffering , return to her own country , which is above . it is no matter of astonishment , to find her from time to time suffering the worst of usage , and most cruel persecutions ; all ages have seen her exposed to such tryals as these , which are so necessary for the testing of her faith , and so fit a matter of her future glory . neither is it any great wonder , if , amidst these sore tryals , vast numbers of those who made profession of the gospel , do now renounce and forsake it : we know that all have not faith ; and it is more than probable , that they who do not follow christ , but because they thrive by it , and for the loaves , will cease to be of his retinue , when he is about to oblige them to bear his cross , and deny themselves . but that which seems inconceivable to me , is , that our enemies should pitch upon such strange ways and methods to destroy us , as they have done , and that , in so doing , they should meet with a success so prodigious and doleful . i shall as briefly as i can endeavour to give you an account of so much as i have understood of it . all those thundring declarations , and destructive arrests , which continually were sued for , and obtain'd against us , and which were executed with the extremity of rigour , were scarce able to move any one of us . the forbidding of our publick exercises , the demolishing of our churches , and the severe injunction that not so much as two or three of us should dare to assemble , in order to any thing of divine worship , had no other effect upon the far greater part of us , than to inflame our zeal , instead of abating it ; obliging us to pray to god with greater fervor and devotion in our closets , and to meditate of his word with greater application and attention . and neither the great wants , to which we were reduced by being depriv'd of our offices and imploys , and all other means of living , and by those insupportable charges with which they strove to over-whelm us , as well by taxes , as the quartering of souldiers ( both which were as heavy as could be laid upon us ) nor the continual trouble we were put to by criminal or other matters of law , which at the suit of one or other were still laid to our charge , tho upon the most frivolous and unjust pretences imaginable ; i say , all these were not able to wear out our patience , which was hardned against all calam●ties : insomuch as the design of forcing us to abandon the truth of the gospel , would infallibly have been ship-wrack'd , if no other means had been taken in hand for this purpose . but , alas ! our enemies were too ingenious , to be bank'd so ; and had taken out ruine too much to heart , not to study for means effectual and proper to bring-about their desires : they call'd to mind what prodigious success a new kind of persecution had had of late years in pocton , aunix , and xaintonge , which the intendants of those places had bethought themselves of ; and they made no difficulty to have recourse to the same , as to a means infallible , and not to be doubted of . i must tell you , sir , that we had not the least thought that ever such violent methods as these , would have been pitched upon , as the means of our conversion : we were always of opinion , that none but dennuieux's , and marillacs , could be fit instruments for such like enterprizes ; neither could we ever have imagin'd , that generals of armies , who account it a shame and reproach to attack and take some paultry town or village , should ever debase themselves to besiege old men , women , and children in their own houses ; or that ever souldiers , who think themselves ennobled by their swords , should degrade themselves so far , as to take up the trade of butchers and hangmen , by tormenting poor innocents , and inflicting all sorts of punishments upon them . moreover , we were the less in expectation of any such thing , because at the self-same time they treated us in this manner . they would needs perswade us , that the king's councel had disapproved the design : and indeed , it seem'd very probably to us , that all reasons , whether taken from humanity , piety , or interest , would have made them disavow and condemn a project so inhumane and barbarous : yet now , by experience , we find it but too true , that our enemies are so far from rejecting the said design , that they carry it on with an unparell'd zeal and application , without giving themselves any further trouble to effectuate their desires , than that of doing these two things . the first of which was , to lull us asleep , and to take away from us all matter of suspition of the mischief they were hatching against us ; which they did by permitting some of our publick exercises of religion , by giving way to our building of some churches , by settling ministers in divers places to baptize our children , and by publishing several arrests and declarations , which did intimate to us , that we had reason to hope we should yet subsist for some years : such was that declaration , by which all ministers were ordered to change their churches every three years . the other was , to secure all the sea-ports of the kingdom , so as none might make their escape , which was done by renewing the antient prohibitions of departing the kingdom without leave , but with the addition of far more severe penalties . after these precautions thus taken , they thought themselves no longer oblig'd to keep any measures , but immediately lift up the hand , to give the last blow for our ruine . the intendents had order to represent to us , that the king was resolved to suffer no other religion in his kingdom besides his own , and to command us all in his name , readily to embrace the same , without allowing us any longer respite to consider what we had to do , than a few days , nay , hours ; threatning us , that if we continued obstinate , they would force us to it by the extremity of rigour ; and presently executing these their menaces , by filling our houses with souldiers , to whom we were to be left for a prey ; and who , not content with entirely ruining of us , should besides exercise upon our persons all the violence and cruelty they could possibly devise : and all this to overcome our constancy and perseverance . four months are now past and gone , since they began to make use of this strange and horrible way of converting people , worthy of , and well becoming its inventors . the country of bearne was first set upon , as being one of the most considerable out-parts of the kingdom , to the end that this mischievous enterprize gaining strength in its passage , might soon after over-whelm , and as it were deluge all the other provinces in the same sea of the uttermost calamity . monsieur foucaut the intendant , went himself in person to all the places where we were in any numbers , and commanded all the inhabitants that were of the protestant religion , under the penalty of great amercements , to assemble themselves in those places he appointed to them ; where being accordingly met together , he charged them in the kings name to change their religion , allowing them only a day or two to dispose themselves for it : he told them , the great numbers of souldiers were at hand , to compel those that should refuse to yield a ready obedience ; and this threatning of his being immediately followed by the effect , as lightning is by thunder , he fill'd the houses of all those who abode constant in their resolution to live and die faithful to their lord and master , jesus christ , with souldiers ; and commands those insolent troops ( flesh'd with blood and slaughter ) to give them the worst treatment they could possibly devise . i shall not undertake , sir , to give you a particular account of those excesses and out-rages , these enraged brutals committed in executing the orders they were charged with ; the relation would prove too tedious and doleful : it shall suffice me to tell you , that they did not forget any thing that was inhuman , barbarous , or cruel , without having regard to any condition , sex or age ; they pull'd down and , demolished their houses ; they spoil'd , dash'd to pieces , and burnt their best moveables and houshold-stuff ; they bruised and beat to death venerable old men ; they dragg'd honourable matrons to mass , without the least pity or respect ; they bound and fetter'd innocent persons , as if they had been the most infamous and profligate villains ; they hung them up by their feet , till they saw them ready to give up the ghost ; they took red-hot fire-shovels , and held them close to their bare heads , and actually applied them to other parts of their bodies ; they immur'd them within four walls , where they let them perish for hunger and thirst : and the constancy wherewith they suffer'd all these torments , having had no other effect , but that of augmenting the rage of these furies , they never ceased inventing new waies of pain and torture , till their inhumanity at length had got the victory , and triumphed over the patience and faith of these miserable wretches . insomuch , that of all those many numerous assemblies , we had in that province , as that of pan , d'arthes , d'novarre , &c. there are scarcely left a small number , who either continue constant in despite of all these cruelties , or else have made their escape into spain , holland , england , or elsewhere , leaving their goods and families for the prey to these merciless and cruel men. success having thus far answered their expectation , they resolved to lose no time ; but vigorously prosecuting their work , they immediately turned their thoughts and arms towards montaubam ▪ where the intendant having summoned the citizens to appear before him , bespeaks them much of the same language , as was used to those of bearne ; whereunto they having returned about the same answer , he orders . men to enter the city , and makes them take up their quarters , as at bearne , only in the houses of protestants ; with express command to treat them in like manner , as they had done those of bearne : and these inhuman wretches were so diligent and active in executing these pitiless orders , that of or . soul , of which that church did consist , not above or families are escaped ; who , in a doleful and forlorn condition , wander up and down the woods , and hide themselves in thickets . the ruin of this important place , drew after it the desolation of all the churches about it ; which were all enveloped in the same common calamity , as those of realmont , bourniquel , negreplisse , &c. yet was not the condition of the churches in the upper guienne more sad and calamitous , than that of those of the lower guienne , and of perigord ; which this horrible deluge hath likewise over-whelm'd . monsieur bouslers , and the intendant , having shared the country between them ; monsieur de bousters taking for his part agenois , tonnein , clerac , with the adjoyning places ; and the intendant having taken upon him to reduce fleis , monravel , genssac , cartillon , coutras , libourne , &c. the troops which they commanded , in the mean time , carrying desolation to all the places they passed through , filling them with mourning and despair , and scattering terror and amazement amongst all those to whom they approached . there were at the same time companies at st. foy , at nerac , and as many in proportion in all other parts : so that all places being fill'd i th these troops , accustom'd to licentiousness and pillage , there is not any one of the said places , where they have not left most dreadful marks of their rage and cruelty ; having at last , by means of their exquisite tortures , made all those of our religion submit themselves to the communion of rome . but forasmuch as bergerat was most signally famous for the long trials it had most gloriously endured , and that our enemies were very sensible of what advantage it would be , to the carrying on of their design , to make themselves masters there also , at any price whatsoever ; they accordingly fail'd not to attempt the same with more resolution and obstinacy , than any of the forementioned places . this little town had already , for three years together , with admirable patience and constancy , endured a thousand ill treatments , and exactions from souldiers , who had pick'd them to the very bones : for besides that , it was almost a continual passage for souldiers ; there were no less than eighteen troops of horse had their winter quarters there ; who yet in all that time had only gain'd three converts , and they such too as were maintain'd by the alms of the church . but to return : the design being form'd to reduce this city , two troops of horse are immediately ordered thither , to observe the inhabitants , and soon after companies of foot enter the town : monsieur bouflers and the intendant of the province , with the bishops of agen and perigueux , and some other persons of quality , tender themselves there at the same time , and send for of the chiefest citizens to appear before them ; telling them , that the kings express will and pleasure was , they should all go to mass ; and that in case of disobedience , they had order to compel them to it : to which the citizens unanimosly answered , that their estates were at the dispose of his majesty , but that god alone was lord of their consciences ; and that they were resolved to suffer to the utmost , rather than do any thing contrary to the motions of it . whereupon they were told , that if they were so resolved , they had nought else to do but to prepare themselves to receive the punishment their obstinacy and disobedience did deserve ; and immediately companies more of infantry and cavalry enter the city ( which , together with the companies before-mentioned , were all quartered with protestants ) with express command not to spare any thing they had , and to exercise all manner of violence upon the persons of those that entertain'd them , until they should have extorted a promise from them , to do whatsoever was commanded them . these orders then being thus executed , according to the desires of those who had given them , and these miserable victims of a barbarous military fury , being reduc'd to the most deplorable and desolate condition ; they are again sent for to the town-house , and once more pressed to change their religion ; and they answering with tears in their eyes , and with all the respect , humility , and submission imginable , that the matter required of them , was the only thing they could not do , the extreamest rigor and severity is denounc'd against them ; and they presently made good their words , by sending more companies into the city , which made up the full number of an hundred ; who encouraging themselves from their numbers , and flying like enraged wolves upon these innocent sheep , did rend and worry them in such a manner , as the sole relation cannot but strike with horror and amazement . whole companies were ordered to quarter with one citizen ; and persons whose whole estate did not amount to . livres , were taxed at the rate of . livres a day : when their money is gone , they sell their houshold-stuff , and sell that for two pence , which hath cost . livres ; they bind and fetter father , mother , wife and children : four souldiers continually stand at the door , to hinder any from coming in to succour or comfort them : they keep them in this condition , two , three , four , five , and six days , without either meat , drink , or sleep : on one hand the child cries , with the languishing accent of one ready to dye , ah my father ! ah my mother ! what shall i do ? i must dye , i can endure no longer : the wife on the other hand cries ; alas ! my heart fails me , i faint , i dye ! whilst their cruel tormentors are so far from being touch'd with compassion , that from thence they take occasion to press them afresh , and to renew their torments , frighting them with their hellish menaces , accompanied with most execrable oaths and curses ; crying , dog , bougre , what , will not thou be converted ? wilt not thou be obedient ? dog , bougre , thou must be converted , we are sent on purpose to convert thee : and the clergy , who are witnesses of all these cruelties , ( with which they feast their eyes ) and of all their infamous and abominable words , ( which ought to cover them with horror and confusion ) make only a matter of sport and laughter of it . thus these miserable wretches , being neither suffered to live nor to dye , ( for when they see them fainting away , they force them to take so much as to keep body and soul together ) and seeing no other way for them to be delivered out of this hell , in which they are continually tormented , are fain at last to stoop under the unsupportable burthen of these extremities : so that excepting only a few who saved themselves by a timely flight , preferring their religion before all temporal possessions , all the rest have been constrained to go to mass . neither is the country any more exempt from these calamities , than towns and cities ; nor those of the nobility and gentry , than citizens . they send whole companies of souldiers into gentlemens houses , who treat them in the most outragious and violent manner conceivable ; insomuch that not a soul can hope to escape , except it may be some few , who like the believers of old , wander in desarts , and lodge in dens , and caves of the earth . futhermore , i can assure you , that never was any greater consternation , than that which we are in here at present ; the army , we hear , is come very near us , and the intendant is just now arrived in this city ; the greater part of the most considerable merchants are either already gone , or casting about how best to make their escape , abandoning their houses and estates to their enemies ; and there are not wanting some cowardly spirits , who , to avoid the mischief they are preparing for us , have already promised to do whatsoever is required of them . in a word , nothing is seen or heard in these parts but consternation , weeping and lamentation ; there being scarce a person of our religion , who hath not his heart pierced with the bitterest sorrows , and whose countenance hath not the lively picture of death imprinted on it : and surely , if our enemies triumph in all this , their triumph cannot likely be of any long continuance . i confess , i cannot perswade my self to entertain so good an opinion of them , as to think that ever they will be ashamed of these their doings , so diametrically opposite to the spirit of the gospel ; for i know the gospel , in their accounts , passeth for a fable : but this i dare averr , that this method of theirs will infallibly lay waste the kingdom , which according to all appearance , is never like to recover of it ; and so in time , they themselves will be made as sensible of these miseries , as others now are . commerce is already in a manner wholly extinct , and there will need little less than a miracle to recover it to its former state. what protestant merchants will henceforward be willing to engage themselves in trade , either with persons without faith ; and who have so cowardly betray'd their religion and conscience , or with the outragious and barbarous persecuters of the religion , which they profess ? and who by these courses declare openly and frankly , that it is their principle , not to think themselves oblig'd to keep their word with hereticks . and who are those , of what religion soever , that will negotiate with a state exhausted by taxes and subsidies , by persecutions , by barrenness and dearth of several years continuance ; full of a despairing people , and which infallibly will e're long be full of those that are proscrib'd , and be bathing in its own blood. and these miserable wretches , who have been deceived by those who have told them , that it would never be impos'd upon them to abjure their religion , and who are stupified by the extremity of their sufferings , and the terror of their bloody and cruel enemies , are wrapt up in so deep an astonishment , as doth not permit them to be fully sensible of their fall : but as soon as they shall recover themselves , and remember , that they could not embrace the communion of rome , without absolutely renouncing the holy religion they professed ; and when they shall make a full reflection upon the unhappy change they have been forced to make ; then their consciences being awakened , and continually reproaching their faint-heartedness , will rend them with sorrow and remorse , and inflict torments upon them , equal to those the damned endure in hell ; and will make them endavour to be delivered from this anguish , and to find rest in the constant profession of that truth , which they have unhappily betray'd . and on the other-side ; their enemies will be loath to take the lye at this time of the day ; and therefore will endeavor , through fear of punishments , to oblige them to stay in that abyss of horror , into which they have precipitated them : but because all the sufferings they can possibly threaten them with , will be no ways considerable , when compared with those tortures their consciences have already inflicted upon them , and where with they threaten them in case of a relapse , they will be constrained to drag them to the place of execution , or else seek to rid themselves of them all at once , by a general massacre , which many good souls have so so long desired . i hope , sir , you will not be wanting in your most earnest prayers to beg of god , that he would be pleased to take pity of these miserable wretches ; and make the heart of our sovereign to relent towards us ; that he would convert those , who in their blindness think they do him service , by putting us to death ; that he would cause his voice to be heard by them from heaven , as to st. paul ; saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? and make the rest the examples of his exemplary justice : finally , that he would grant , that all those who have denied him , being touched with a true repentance , may , with st. peter , go out , and weep bitterly . i am , sir , yours , &c. an extract of a letter , containing some more instances of the cruel and barbarous vsage of the protestants in france . but this , sir , is not the thing which troubles me most , at this time ; there 's another cause of my grief , which is but too just , and even pierceth my heart with sorrow ; and that is , the cruel persecution , which the poor protestants of france do suffer , amongst whom i have so many near and dear relations : the torments they are put to , are almost incredible ; and the heavenly courage , wherewith some of them are strengthned by their great captain and leader , to undergo them , is no less amazing and wonderful : i shall give for instance one or two of these champions , that by them you may judge of the rest . a young woman was brought before the council , in order to oblige her to abjure the truth of the gospel ; which she boldly and manfully refusing , was commanded back again to prison ; where they shaved her head , and sing'd off the hair of her privities ; and having stript her stark-naked , in this manner led her through the streets of the city ; where many a blow was given her , and stones flung at her . after this , they set her up to the neck in a tub full of water ; where after she had been for a while , they took her out , and put upon her a shift dipt in wine , which as it dry'd , and fluck to her sore and bruised body , they snatch'd off again ; and then had another ready , dipt in wine to clap upon her : this they repeated six several times ; and when by this inhumane usage , her body was become very raw and tender , they demanded of her , whether she did not now find her self disposed to embrace the catholick faith ? for so they are pleased to term their religion : but she , being strengthned by the spirit and love of him , for whose names sake she suffered all these extremities , undauntedly answer'd ; that she had before declared her resolution to them , which she would never alter ; and that , though they had her body in their power , she was resolved not to yield her soul to them ; but keep it pure and undefiled for her heavenly lover ; as knowing , that a little while would put an end to all her sufferings , and give a beginning to her enjoyment of everlasting bliss : which words of hers , adding fuel of their rage , who now despaired of making her a convert , they took and fastned her by her feet , to something that served the turn of a gibbet , and there let her hang in that ignominious posture , with her head downwards till she expired . the other person i would instance in , and whom i pity the more , because ( for ought i know ) he may yet survive , and still continue under the tormentor's hands , is an old man ; who having , for a great while , been kept close prisoner ( upon the same account as the former ) in a deep dungeon , where his companions were darkness and horror , and filthy creeping things , was brought before his judges , with vermin and snails crawling upon his mouldred garment ; who seeing him in that loathsom condition , said to him : how now old man , does not your heart begin to relent ? and are not you willing to abjure your heresie ? to which he answer'd : as for heresie , i profess none ; but if by that word you mean my religion , you may assure your selves , that as i have thus long lived , so , i hope , and am resolved by the grace of god , to die in it : with which answer they being little pleased , but furiously incensed , bespoke him in a rougher tone : dost thou not see , that the worms are about to devour thee ? well , since thou art so resolved , we will send thee back again , to the loathsom place from whence thou camest , that they may make an end of thee , and consume thy obdurate heart : to which he reply'd , with the words of the holy patient job ; novi postquam vermes confoderint ( corpus ) istud , in carne mea me vissurum esse deum . i know that after worms have eaten this body , that in my flesh i shall see god. and having so said , he was sent back to his loathsom dark abode ; where if he be still , i pray god to give him patience and strength to hold out to the end , that so he may obtain the crown of life . i should be too tedious , in giving you all the particulars of their cruelty , and of the sufferings of the protestants ; yet i cannot well forbear acquainting you with what lately i am most credibly inform'd of ; which take as follows : some dragoons , who were quartered with a person , who they could by no means oblige to renounce his religion ; upon a time , when they had well fill'd themselves with wine , and broke their glasses at every health they drank ; and so fill'd the floor , where they were , with the fragments ; and by often walking over , and treading upon them , reduced them to lesser pieces and fractions : and being now in a merry humour , they must needs go to dance ; and told their host , that he must be one of the company ; but withal , that he must first pull off his stockins and shooes , that the might move the more nimbly : in a word , they forc'd him to dance with them bare-footed , upon the sharp points of glass ; which when they had continued so long as they were able to keep him on his legs , they laid him down on a bed ; and a while after stript him stark naked , and rolled his body from one end of the room to the other , upon the sharp glass , as beforementioned ; which having done , till his skin was stuck full of the said little fragments , they returned him again to his bed , and sent for a chyturgeon , to take out all the said pieces of glass out of his body ; which you may easily conceive , could not be done without frequent incisions , and horrible and most extream pain . another person being likewise troubled with the unwelcom company of these dragoons , and having suffered extreamly at their hands , without the expected success of his conversion ; one of them on a time looking earnestly upon him , told him , that he disfigured himself , with letting his beard grow so long : but he answering , that they were the cause of it , who would not let him stir out of door , for to go to the barber : the dragoon reply'd , i can do that for you as well as the barber ; and with that told him , he must needs try his skill upon him : and so fell to work ; but instead of shaving him , flea'd all the skin off his face . one of his companions coming in at the cry of this poor sufferer , and seeing what he had done , seemingly blam'd him for it , and said , he was a bungler ; and then to his host , come , your hair wants cutting too , and you shall see , i will do it much better than he hath shav'd you : and thereupon begins , in a most cruel manner , to pluck the hair , skin , and all , off his head , and flea'd that as the other had done his chin. thus making a sport and merriment of the extream suffering of these miserable wretches . by these inhuman , and more than barbarous means it is , that they endeavour to overcome the most resolved patience , and to drive people to despair and faint-heartedness , by their devilish inventions . they refuse to give them death , which they desire ; and only keep them alive to torment them , so long till they have vanquish'd their perseverance ; for the names of martyrs , and rebels , are equally odious to their enemies , who tell them , the king will have obedient subjects , but neither martyrs nor rebels ; and that they have received orders to convert them , but not to kill them . sir , i beg your pardon , for having so long entertain'd you with these more than tragical passages ; and that you would not be wanting to recommend the condition of these poor , destitute , afflicted , and tortured persons , to the bowels of compassion of our heavenly father , that he would be pleased not to suffer them to be tempted above what he shall give them grace to bear : which is the hearty prayer of , your faithful friend , t. g. since the first publishing of this , some further particulars ( representing the horror of this persecution ) are come to hand ; which take as follow : they have put persons into monasteries , in little narrow holes , where they could not stretch their bodies at length ; there feeding them with bread and water , and whipping them every day , till they did recant : they plunged others into wells , and there kept them till they promised to do what was desired of them : they stript some naked , and stuck their bodies full of pins : they tyed fathers and husbands to the bed-posts , forcing their wives and daughters before their eyes : in some places , the ravishing of women was openly and generally permitted : they pluck'd off the nails and toes of others : they burnt their feet , and blew up men and women with bellows , till they were ready to burst . in a word , they exercised all manner of cruelties they could invent ; and in so doing ; spared neither sex , age nor quality . the profession of the catholick , apostolick , and roman faith , which the revolting protestants in france are to subscribe and swear to . in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , amen . i believe and confess with a firm faith , all and every thing and things contained in the creed , which is used by the holy church of rome , viz. i receive and embrace most sincerely the apostolick and ecclesiastical traditions , and other observances of the said church . in like manner , i receive the scriptures , but in the same sense as the said mother church hath , and doth now understand and expound the same ; for whom and to whom it only doth belong to judge of the interpretation of the sacred scriptures : and i will never take them , nor understand them otherwise , than according to the unanimous consent of the fathers . i profess , that there be truly and properly seven sacraments of the new law , instituted by our lord jesus christ , and necessary for the salvation of mankind , altho' not equally needful for every one , viz. baptism , confirmation , the eucharist , penance , extream unction , orders and marriage ; and that they do confer grace ; and that baptism and orders may not be reiterated , without sacriledge : i receive and admit also the ceremonies received & approved by the catholick church , in the solemn administration of the forementioned sacraments . i receive and embrace all and every thing , and things , which have been determined concerning original sin and justification by the holy council of trent . i likewise profess , that in the mass there is offered up to god , a true , proper , and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and dead ; and that in the holy sacrament of the eucharist , there is truly , really , and substantially , the body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of the lord jesus christ ; and that in it there is made a change of the whole substance of the bread into his body , and of the whole substance of the wine into his blood ; which change the catholick church calls transubstantiation . i confess also , that under one only of these two elements , whole christ , and the true sacrament is received . i constantly believe and affirm , that there is a purgatory ; and that the souls there detained , are relieved by the suffrages of the faithful . in like manner , i believe that the saints reigning in glory with jesus christ , are to be worshipped and invocated by us , and that they offer up prayers to god for us , and that their reliques ought to be honoured . moreover , i do most stedfastly avow , that the images of jesus christ , of the blessed virgin , the mother of god , and of other saints , ought to be kept and retained , and that due honour and veneration must be yielded unto them . also i do affirm , that the power of indulgences was left to the church by christ jesus , and that the use thereof is very beneficial to christians . i do acknowledge the holy catholick , apostolick , and roman church , to be the mother and mistress of all other churches ; and i profess and swear true obedience to the pope of rome , successor of the blessed st. peter , prince of the apostles , and vicar of jesus christ . in like manner , i own and profess , without doubting , all other things left defined and declared by the holy canons and general councils , especially by the most holy council of trent ; and withal , i do condemn , reject , and hold for accursed , all things that are contrary thereto ; and all those heresies which have been condemned , rejected , and accursed by the church . and then swearing upon the book of the gospel , the party recanting , must say : i promise , vow , and swear , and most constantly prosess , by gods assistance , to keep intirely and inviolably , unto death , this self-same catholick and apostolick faith , out of which no person can be saved ; and this i do most truly and willingly profess , and that i will to the utmost of my power endeavour that it may be maintain'd and upheld as far as any ways belong to my charge ; so help me god , and the holy virgin. the certificate which the party recanting , is to leave with the priest , when he makes his abjuration . in. n. of the parish of n. do certifie all whom it may concern , that having acknowledged the falseness of the pretended reformed , and the truth of the catholick religion , of my own free will , without any compulsion , i have accordingly made profession of the said catholick roman religion in the church of n. in the hands of n. n. in testimony of the truth whereof , i have signed this act in the presence of the witnesses whose names are under written , this — day of the month of the — year of the reign of our soveraign lord the king , and of our redemption . — a declaration of the elector of brandenburg , in favour of the french protestants , who shall settle themselves in any of his dominions . we frederick william , by the grace of god. marquess of brandenburg , arch-chamberlain , and prince elector of the holy empire ; duke of prussia , magdeburg , juilliers , cleves , bergen , stettin , pomerania ; of the cassubes , vandals , and silesia ; of crosne , and jagerndorff ; burg-grave of noremberg ; prince of halberstadt , minde , and camin ; earl of hohenzollern , of the mark and ravensberg ; lord of ravenstein , lawneburg , and butow , do declare and make known to all to whom these presents shall come . that whereas the persecutions and rigorous proceedings which have been carried on for some time in france , against those of the reformed religion , have forced many families to leave that kingdom , and to seek for a settlement elsewhere , in strange and foreign countries ; we have been willing , being touched with that just compassion , we are bound to have for those who suffer for the gospel , and the purity of that faith we profess , together with them , by this present declaration , signed with our own hand , to offer , to the said protestants , a sure and free retreat in all the countries and provinces under our dominion ; and withal , to declare the several rights , immunities , and priviledges , which we are willing they shall enjoy there , in order to the relieving and easing them , in some measure , of the burthen of those calamities , wherewith it hath pleased the divine providence to afflict so considerable a part of his church . i. to the end , that all those who shall resolve to settle themselves in any of our dominions , may with the more ease and convenience transport themselves thither , we have given order to our envoy extraordinary with the states-general of the vnited provinces , sieur diest , and to our commissary in the city of amsterdam , sieur romswinkel , at our charge , to furnish all those of the said religion ( who shall address themselves unto them ) with what vessels and provisions they shall stand in need of , for the transportation of themselves , their goods and families , from holland to the city of hamburg : where then our councellor and resident for the circle of the lower saxony , sieur guerick , shall furnish them with all conveniences they may stand in need of , to convey them further , to whatsoever city or province they shall think fit to pitch upon , for the place of their abode . ii. those who shall come from the parts of france about sedan , as from champagne , lorain , burgundy , or from any of the southern provinces of that kingdom , and who think it not convenient to pass through holland , may betake themselves to the city of frankfort upon maine ; and there address themselves to sieur merain , our councellor and agent in the said city , or in the city of cologne to sieur lely , our agent , to whom we have also given command to furnish them with money , pasports , and boats , in order to the carrying them down the river rhine , to our dutchy of cleves and mark : or in case they shall desire to go further up in our dominions , our said ministers and officers shall furnish them with address , and conveniences , for to arrive at those several respective places . iii. and forasmuch as the said our provinces are stored with all sorts of conveniences , and commodities , not only for the necessity of living , but also for manufactures , commerce , and trade by sea , and by land , those who are willing to settle themselves in any of our said provinces , may choose such place , as they please , in the country of cleve , mark , ravensberg and minde , or in those of magdeburg , halberstadt , brandenburg , pomerania , and prussia . and forasmuch as we conceive , that in our electoral marquisate , the cities of stendel , werbe , rathenow , brandenburg , and frankfort ; and in the country of magdeburg , the cities of magdeburg , halle , and calbe ; and in prussia , the city of koningsberg will be most commodious , as well for the great abundance of all necessaries of life , which may be had there at cheap rates , as for the convenience of trade and traffick ; we have given charge , that as soon as any of the said french protestants shall arrive in any of the said cities , they shall be kindly received and agreed with about all those things , which shall be thought needful for their settlement . and for the rest , leaving them at their full liberty to dispose of themselves in whatsoever city or province they shall judge most commodious , and best suiting with their occasions . iv. all the goods , houshold-stuff , merchandize , and commodities , which they shall bring along with them , shall not be liable to any custom or impost ; but shall be wholly exempt from all charges and impositions , of what name or nature soever they may be . v. and in case that in any of the cities , towns , or villages where the said persons of the reformed religion do intend to settle themselves , there be found any ruinous and decay'd houses , or such as stand empty , and which the proprietors are not in a condition to repair , we will cause the same to be assigned to them , the said french protestants , as their propriety , and to their heits for ever ; and shall content the present proprietors , according to the value of the said houses ; and shall wholly free the same from all charges , to which the same might stand ingaged , whether by mortgage , debts , or any other way whatsoever . furthermore , our will is , that they be furnished with timber , quick lime , stones , bricks , and other materials they may stand in need of , for the repairing of whatsoever is decay'd or ruinous in any of the said houses ; which shall , for six years , be exempt from all sorts of impositions , free-quarter , and all other charges whatsoever : neither shall the said french , during the time of six years , be lyable to any payments whatsoever , but what are chatgeable upon things of daily consumption . vi. in cities or elsewhere , where convenient places shall be found for to build houses , those of the reformed religion , who shall make their retreat into our dominions , shall be fully authorized and impowered to take possession of the same , for themselves and their heirs after them , together with all the gardens , fields , and pasture-grounds belonging to the same , without being oblig'd to pay any of the dues and charges , with which the said places , or their dependances may be incumbred . moreover , for the facilitating their building in any of the said places , we will cause them to be furnished with all the materials they shall stand in need of ; and will over and above allow them ten years of exemption , during which they shall not be lyable to any other charges or payments , besides the dues charged upon things of daily spending . and furthermore , forasmuch as our intent is , to make their settlement in our dominions the most easie and commodious for them that may be ; we have given command to our magistrates and other officers in the said provinces , to make enquiry , in every city , for houses that are to be lett , into which it shall be free for the said french to enter , and take up their lodging as soon as they shall arrive ; and do promise to pay for them and their families for four years , the rent of the said houses , provided that they engage themselves , within the said term , to build in such places as shall be assigned for them , in manner , and upon condition as aforesaid . vii . as soon as they shall have taken up their habitation in any city or town of our dominions , they shall immediately be made free of the place , as also of that particular corporation , which by their trade of profession they belong to ; and shall enjoy the self-same rights and priviledges , which the citizens , burgesses , and freemen of the said places or corporations do enjoy , and that without being obliged to pay any thing for the said freedom , and without being lyable to the law of escheatage , or any other of what nature soever they may be , which in other countries are in force against strangers ; but shall be look'd upon , and treated upon all accounts , in the same manner , as our own natural subjects . viii . all those who are willing to undertake and establish any manufactures , whether of cloth , stuffs , hats , or any other whatsoever , shall not only be furnished with all the priviledges , patents , and franchises , which they can wish for , or desire ; but moreover we will take care that they be assisted with moneys , and such other provisions and necessaries as shall be thought fit to promote and make their undertaking successful . ix . to country-men and others , who are willing to settle themselves in the country , we will cause a certain extent of ground to be allotted for them to till and cultivate , and give orders for their being assisted and furnished with all things necessary for their subsistance , at the beginning of their settlement ; in like manner as we have done to a considerable number of swiss families , who are come to dwell in our dominions . x. and as for any business of law , or matter of difference which may arise amongst those of the reformed religion . we do grant and allow that in those cities where any considerable number of french families shall be settled , they be authorized to choose one from amongst themselves , who shall have full power to decide the said differences in a friendly way , without any formality of law whatsoever : and in case any differences shall arise between the germans and the said french , that then the said differences shall be decided joyntly by the magistrate of the place , and by the person whom the french shall have chosen for that purpose , from amongst themselves . and the same shall be done when the differences of frenchmen , amongst themselves , cannot be accommodated in the forementioned friendly way , by the person thereto by them elected . xi . in every city , where any numbers of french shall settle themselves , we will maintain a minister , and appoint a convenient place for the publick exercise of religion in the french tongue , according to the custom , and with the same ceremonies which are in use amongst the reformed in france . xii . and forasmuch as such of the nobility of france , who , heretofore , have put themselves under our protection , and entred into our service , do actually enjoy the same honours , dignities , and immunities with those of the country ; and that there are many found amongst them , who have been raised to the chief places and charges of our court , and command over our forces ; we are ready and willing to continue the same favour to those of the said nobility , who for time to come shall settle themselves in our dominions , by bestowing upon them the several charges honours and dignities , they shall be found fitted for . and in case they shall purchase any mannors or lordships , they shall possess the same with all the rights , prerogatives and immunities , which the nobility of our own dominions do of right enjoy . xiii . all these priviledges and advantages forementioned shall not only be extended to those french of the reformed religion , who shall arrive in our dominions ( in order to their settling there ) after the same date of this declaration ; but also to those , who before the date hereof , have settled themselves in our countries , provided they have been forced to leave france upon account of their religion ; they of the romish profession being wholly excluded from any part or share therein . xiv . in every one of our provinces , dutchies , and principalities , we shall appoint and establish certain commissioners , to whom the french of the reformed religion , may have recourse and address themselves upon all occasions of need ; and this not only at the beginning of their settlement , but also afterwards . and all governours and magistrates of our provinces and territories , shall have order by vertue of these presents , as well as by other particular commands , we shall from time to time issue forth , to take the said persons of the reformed religion into their protection , and to maintain them in all the priviledges here before mentioned , and not suffer the least hurt or injury to be done unto them , but rather all manner of favour , aid and assistance . given at postdam , octob. . . frederick william . a letter from father la chese , confessor to the french king , to father pe●re , jesuit , and great almoner to the king of england , upon the method or rule he must observe with his majesty , for the conversion of his protestant subjects . most reverend father , when i compare the method of the french court ( which declares against all heresies ) with the policy of other princes , who had the same design in former ages ; i find so great a difference that all that passes now adaies in the king's council is an impenetrable mistery : and the eyes of all europe are opened , to see what happens ; but cannot discover the cause . when francis i. and henry ii. his son undertook to ruin the reformation , they had to struggle with a party which was but beginning and weak , and destitute of help ; and consequently easier to be overcome . in the time of francis ii. and charles ix . a family was seen advanc'd to the throne by the ruin of the protestants , who were for the house of bourbon . in this last reign many massacres hapned , and several millions of hereticks have been sacrificed , but it answer'd otherwaies : and his majesty has show'd ( by the peace and mild waies he uses ) that he abhors shedding of blood ; from which you must perswade his britannie majesty , who naturally is inclin'd to roughness , and a kind of boldness , which will make him hazard all , if he does not politickly manage it ; as i hinted in my last , when i mentioned my lord chancellor . most reverend father , to satisfie the desire i have to shew you by my letters the choice you ought to make of such persons fit to stir up , i will in few words ( since you desire it ) inform you of the genius of the people of our court , of their inclinations , and which of them we make use of ; that by a parallel which you will make , between them and your english lords , you may learn to know them . therefore i shall begin with the chief : i mean our great monarch . it is certain that he is naturally good , and loves not to do evil , unless desir'd to do it . this being so , i may say , he never would have undertaken the conversion of his subjects , without the clergy of france , and without our societies correspondence abroad . he is a prince enlightned ; who very well observes , that what we put him upon , is contrary to his interest , and that nothing is more opposite to his great designs , and his glory ; he aiming to be the terror of all europe . the vast number of malecontents he has caused in his kingdom , forces him in time of peace to keep three times more forces , than his ancestors did in the greatest domestick and foreign wars : which cannot be done , without a prodigious expence . the peoples fears also begin to lessen , as to his aspiring to an universal monarchy : and they may assure themselves he has left those thoughts ! nothing being more opposite to his designs , than the method we enjoyn him . his candor , bounty , and toleration , to the hereticks , would undoubtedly have open'd the doors of the low countries , palatinate , and all other states on the rhine , and even of switzerland : whereas things are at present so alter'd , that we see the hollanders free from any fear of danger ; the switzers and city of geneva , resolv'd to lose the last drop of their blood in their defence ; besides some diversion we may expect from the empire , in case we cannot hinder a peace with the turks ; which ought to hasten his britannick majesty , while he can be assured of succors from the most christian king. sir , his majesties brother is alwaies the same , i mean , takes no notice of what passes at court. it has sometimes happen'd , the king's brothers have acted so , as to be noted in the state ; but this we may be assur'd will never do any thing to stain the glory of his submission and obedience : and is willing to lend a helping hand for the destruction of the hereticks ; which appears by the instances he makes to his majesty , who now has promised him to cause his troops to enter into the palatinate the next month. the dauphin is passionately given up to hunting , and little regards the conversion of souls ; and it does not seem easie to make him penetrate into business of moment ; and therefore we do not care to consult him which way , and how , the hereticks ought to be treated . he openly laughs at us , and slights all the designs , of which the king his father makes great account . the dauphiness is extreamly witty ; and is without doubt uneasie to shew it in other matters besides complements of conversation . she has given me a letter for the queen of england ; wherein after her expression of the part she bears on the news of her majesties being with child , she gives her several advices about the conversion of her subjects . most reverend father , she is undoubtedly born a great enemy to the protestants ; and has promoted all she could with his majesty , in all that has been done , to hasten their ruin ; especially having been bred in a court of our society , and of a house whose hatred against the protestant religion is heraditary ; because she has been raised up by the ruine of the german protestant princes , especially that of the palatinate . but the king having caused her to come to make heirs to the crown , she answers expectation to the utmost . monsieur louvois is a man who very much observes his duty , which he performs to admiration ; and to whom we must acknowledge france owes part of the glory it has hitherto gained , both in regard of its conquests , as also the conversion of hereticks ; to which latter i may say , he has contributed as much as the king : he has already shewed himself fierce , wrathful , and hardhearted , in his actions towards them ; though he is not naturally inclin'd to cruelty , nor to harrass the people . his brother the archbishop of rheins , has ways which do not much differ from those of his soul ; and all the difference i find between is , that the archbishop loves his own glory , as much os monsieur de louvois loves that of his majesty . he is his own idol ; and give him but incense , and you may obtain any thing . honour is welcome to him , let it come which way it will. the least thing provokes this prelate ; and he will not yield any thing deregetary to his paternity . he will seem learned ; he will seem a great theologian , and will seem to be a good bishop , and to have a great care of his diocess ; and would heretofore seem a great preacher . i have hinted in my last ; the reasons why i cannot altogether like him ; which are needless to repeat . the archbishop of paris is always the same ; i mean , a gallant man ; whose present conversation is charming , and loves his pleasures ; but cannot bear any thing that grieves or gives trouble ; though he is always a great enemy of the jansenists , which he lately intimated to cardinal camus . he is always with me in the council of conscience , and agrees very well with our society ; laying mostly to heart the conversion of the protestants of the three kingdoms . he also makes very good observations , and designs to give some advice to your reverence , which i shall convey to you . i do sometimes impart to him , what you write to me , my lord kingston has embrac'd our good party : i was present when he abjur'd in the church of st. denys ; i will give you the circumstances some other time . you promised to send me the names of all heretick officers who are in his majesties troops ; that much imports me ; and you shall not want good catholick officers to fill up their places . i have drawn a list of them who are to pass into england ; and his most christian majesty approves thereof : pray observe what i hinted to you in my last , on the subject of the visits , which our fathers must give to the chief lords , members of the next parliament ; those reverend fathers , who are to perform that duty , must be middle-aged , with a lively countenance , and fit to perswade . i also advised you in some of my other letters , how the bishop of oxford ought to behave himself , by writing incessantly , and to insinuate into the people the putting down the test ; and at the same time cal● the storm , which the letter of pensionary fagel has raised . and his majesty must continue to make vigorous prohibitions to all booksellers in london , not to print any answers : as well to put a stop to the insolency of heretick authors ; as also to hinder the people from reading them . in short , you intimate to me , that his majesty will follow our advice : it 's the quickest way , and i cannot find a better , or fitter , to dispossess his subjects from such impressions as they have received . his majesty must also , by the same declaration , profess in conscience , that ( if complyed with ) he will not only keep his word , to maintain and protect the church of england ; but will also confirm his promises by such laws , as the protestants shall be contented with . this is the true politick way ; for by his granting all , they cannot but consent to something . his most christian majesty has with great success experienced this maxim : and though he had not to struggle with penal laws and tests , yet he found it convenient to make large promises , by many declarations ; for , since we must dissemble , you must endeavour all you can to perswade the king , it is the only method to effect his designs . i did also in my last , give you a hint of its importance , as well as the ways you must take to insinuate your selves dextrously with the king , to gain his good will. i know not whether you have observed what passed in england some years since , i will recite it , because examples instruct much . one of our assisting fathers of that kingdom ( which was father parsons ) having written a book against the succession of the king of scots , to the realm of england : father creighton , who was also of our society , and upheld by many of our party , defended the cause of that king , in a book intituled , the reasons of the king of scots , against the book of father parsons : and though they seem'd divided , yet they understood one another very well ; this being prcticed by order of our general , to the end , that if the house of scotland were excluded , they might shew him who had the government , the book of father parsons ; and on the other hand , if the king hapned to be restored to the throne , they might obtain the good will , by shewing him the works of father creighton : so that which way soever the medal turn'd , it still prov'd to the advantage of our society . not to digress from our subject , i must desire you to read the english book of father parsons , intituled , the reform of england ; where , after his blaming of cardinal pole , and ●ade some observations of faults in the council of trent , he finally concludes , that suppose england should return ( as we hope ) to the catholick faith in this reign , he would reduce it to the state of the primitive church : and to that end all the ecclesiastical revenue ought to be used in common , and the management thereof committed to the care of seven wise men , drawn out of our society , to be disposed of by them as they should think fit . moreover , he would have all the religious orders forbidden on religious penalties , not to return into the three kingdoms , without leave of those seven wise men : to the end , it might be granted only to such as live on alms. these reflections seem to me very judicious , and very suitable to the present state of england . the same father parsons adds , that when england is reduced to the true faith , the pope must not expect , at least for five years , to reap any benefit of the ecclesiastical revenue ; but must leave the whole in the hands of those seven wise men ; who will manage the same to the benefit and advancement of the church . the court goes this day for marli , to take the divertisements which are there prepared : i hope to accompany the king , and will entertain him about all business ; and accordingly as he likes what you hint to me in your letter , i shall give you notice . i have acquainted him with his britannic majesties design , of building a citadel near white-hall ; monsieur vauban , our engineer was present : after some discourse on the importance of the subject , his majesty told monsieur vauban , that he thought it convenient he should make a model of the design , and that he should on purpose go over into england , to see the ground . i have done all i could to suspend the designs of our great monarch , who is alwaies angry against the holy father : both parties are stubborn : the kings natural inclination is , to have all yield to him ; and the popes resolution is unalterable . all our fathers most humbly salute your reverence . father reine ville acts wonderfully about nismes amongst the new converts ; who still meet , notwithstanding the danger they expose themselves to . i daily expect news from the frontiers of the empire , which i shall impart to your reverence , and am with the greatest respect , paris , march , . . yours , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ☞ a letter of several french ministers fled into germany upon the account of the persecution in france to such of their brethren in england as approved the kings declaration touching liberty of conscience : translated from the original in french. jurieu, pierre, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter of several french ministers fled into germany upon the account of the persecution in france to such of their brethren in england as approved the kings declaration touching liberty of conscience : translated from the original in french. jurieu, pierre, - . wake, william, - . p. s.n., [london : ] reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. attributed to pierre jurieu. cf. nuc pre- . translation of work by william wake. cf. nuc pre- . caption title. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- france. protestants -- france. freedom of religion -- france -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter of several french ministers fled into germany upon the account of the persecution in france , to such of their brethren in england as approved the kings declaration touching liberty of conscience . translated from the original in french. altho in our present dispersion , most dear and honoured brethren , it has pleased the providence of god to conduct us into places very distant from one another . yet that union which ought always to continue betwixt us , obliges us to declare our sense to one another with a christian and brotherly freedom upon all occasions , that may present themselves to us so to do . 't is this makes us hope that you will not take it amiss of us , if at this time we deliver our opinion to you touching the affairs of england in matters of religion , and with reference to that conduct which you have observed therein . we ought not to conceal it from you , that the greatest part of the protestants of europe have been extremely scandalized to understand , that certain among you , after the example of many of the dissenters , have addressed to the king of england , upon the account of his declaration , by which he has granted liberty of conscience to the non-conformists : and that some others who had already ranked themselves under the episcopal communion , nevertheless published the said declaration in their churches ; and this at a time when almost all the bishops themselves with so much firmness and courage refused to do it . if we may be permitted to tell you freely what our opinion is concerning the conduct of the bishops and of the dissenters in this conjuncture , we shall make no difficulty to pronounce in favour of the former . we look upon it that they have exceedingly well answered the duty of their charge , whilst despising their own private interest , they have so worthily supported that of the protestant religion : whereas the others , for want of considering these things as they ought to have done , have given up the interest of their religion to their own particular advantages . it is not out of any complement to the bishops , much less out of any enmity to the dissenters , that we make such different judgments concerning them . we know well enough how to commend or blame , what seems to us to deserve our praise or our censure both in the one and in the other . we do not at all approve the conduct of the bishops towards the dissenters under the last reign . and altho we do not any more approve that of the dissenters in separating from their communion , yet we do confess they had some reason in the bottom for it ; and that the ceremonies which they have refused to submit to are the remains of popery , which we could rather wish might have been entirely abolished . in this unhappy schism which has so long time rent the church of england ; we look upon it , that both parties have been equally defective in their charity . on the one side , the dissenters ought by no means to have separated themselves for the form of ecclesiastical government , nor for ceremonies which do not at all concern the fundamentals of religion . on the other side , the bishops should have had a greater condescension to the weakness of their brethren : and without doubt they would have acted in a manner more agreeable to the spirit of the gospel , if instead of treating them with so much rigor as they did , they had left them the liberty of serving god according to their conscience , till it should have pleased him to re-unite all under the same discipline . however the conformity of opinion between the dissenters and us , ought to have prejudiced us in their favour , had we been capable of partiality on this occasion . there is also another thing which might have disposed us to judge less favourably of the bishops than of them , and that is the yoke which they have imposed upon the french ministers , by obliging them to receive a second ordination before they could be permitted to exercise their ministry in the church of england , as if the ordination they had received in france had not been sufficient . but we must do justice to all the world , and bear witness to the truth . we have already said , and we must again repeat it , it seems to us that on this last occasion the bishops have discharged their duty , and are most worthy of praise , whereas the dissenters on the contrary are extreamly to be ●●●●ned . and we will presently offer our reasons wherefore we judge so of the one , and of the other . in the mean time , most dear brethren , give us leave freely to tell you , that if our brethren the dissenters of england , who have addressed to the king , are to be blamed , ( as we verily believe they are ) you certainly are much more to be condemned . the hardships under which they had lived for many years without churches , without pastors , without assemblies , made them think the liberty of conscience which was offered to them , a great ease . their spirits , soured and prejudiced by the ill treatments they had received from the church of england , had not freedom enough to let them see that the present which was made them was empoison'd . and therefore upon the sudden they received it with joy , and thought themselves obliged to testifie their acknowledgment of it . but for you who never had any part in the divisions of the church of england , and who by consequence were in a state to judge more soundly of things , how is it that you should not have perceived the poison that was hid under the liberty of conscience offered to them ? or if you did not perceive it of your selves , how is it that the generous refusal of the bishops , tho' at the peril of their liberty and estates , to publish the declaration in their diocesses , should not at least have open'd your eyes ? how have those venerable prelates now highly justified themselves from the reproach that was laid upon them of being popishly affected , and of persecuting the dissenters only , but of a secret hatred to the reformation ? how well have they made it appear that these were only calumnies invented by their enemies to render them odious to the protestants , and that their hearts were truly fix'd to the reformed religion , and animated with a zeal worthy primitive bishops ? could you see those faithful servants of god , disobey the order of their soveraign , expose themselves thereby to his disgrace , suffer imprisonment , and prepare themselves to suffer any thing , rather then betray their consciences and their religion , without admiring their constancy , and being touched with their examples ? but above all , could you resolve by your conduct to condemn that of those generous confessors ? is this the acknowledgment which you ought to have made to them for that charity , with which they had received and comforted you in your exile ? is this to answer the glorious quality of confessors , of which you so much vaunt your selves ? is this the act of faithful ministers of christ ? give us leave to tell you , most dear brethren , your proceedings in this affair appear so very strange to us , that we cannot imagine how you were capable of so doing . it seems to us to have even effaced all the glory you had attained by your sufferings , to reproach your ministry and to be unworthy of true and reformed christians . this is no rash judgment which we pass ; and to convince you that it is not , we beseech you only to examine these things with us without prejudice and interest . the declaration of which we speak is designed for two purposes : the one , the re-establishment of popery . the other , the extinction of the reformed religion in england . the former of these designs appears openly in it . the second is more concealed ; 't is a mystery of iniquity , covered over with a specious appearance ; and of which the trace must be concealed till the time of manifestation comes . we will say nothing of a third design , which is , of the oppression of the liberties of england for the establishment of an absolute authority , but shall leave it to the polititians to make their reflexions upon it . as for us , if we sometimes touch upon it , it shall be only with reference to religion : we will apply our selves chiefly to the two other designs which they proposed to themselves who made that declaration . it cannot be deny'd but that by this declaration , there is liberty of conscience granted indifferently to the papists and to the dissenters . it comprehends both the one and the other under the name of nonconformists . and we may with confidence affirm , that they were the papists especially whom the king had in his eye when he gave this declaration . and howsoever he may pretend to have been touched with the oppressions which the dissenters had suffered ; yet that his principal design was to re-establish popery . behold here already a very great evil , and such as all true protestants are obliged with their utmost power to oppose . what , shall we see popery , that abominable religion , that prodigious heap of filthiness and impurity , re-establish it self , with all its honours , in kingdoms from which the reformation had happily banished it ? and shall there be found in those kingdoms protestants who not only stand still without making any opposition to it , but e'en favour its re-establishment , and openly give it their approbation ? who could have thought that the dissenters of england , men who have always testified so great an aversion to the roman religion ; and who have no other pretence to separate from the bishops , than that they have in part retained in their government and ceremonies the exteriors of that religion , should now themselves joyn to bring it intirely in ? but above all , who could have believed that the french ministers , who after having experimented all the fury of popery in france , were at last banished , rather than that they would subscribe to its errors and abuses : and for this very cause fled into england , that they might there more freely profess the protestant religion , should now contribute to re-establish popery in their new country , where they had been received by their brethren with so singular a charity ? would you indeed , gentlemen , see england once more submitted to the tyranny of the pope , whose yoke it so happily threw off in the last age ? would you there see all those monstrous doctrins , all those superstitions , and that horrible idolatry which reigned there before the reformation , domineer once more in it ? would you that the people should again hear the pulpits and the churches sounding out the doctrins of purgatory , of indulgences , of the sacrifice of the mass , &c. and see the images and reliques of the saints carried solemnly in procession , with a god formed by the hand of men ? and that in fine , they should again publickly adore those vain idols ? we are confident there is not a good protestant in the world that would not startle but at the thought of it . but this is not yet all . the declaration of which we speak does not only re-establish popery with all its abominations , but does moreover tend to the ruine of the reformation in england . a man need not to have any great sagacity to be convinced of this . and that as much as it seems to establish for ever the protestant religion in that kingdom , it does on the contrary destroy the very foundations of it . the ground upon which the reformation is founded in england , are the laws which have been made at several times for the settlement of it , and to abolish either the tyranny of the pope , or the popish religion altogether . and as these laws have been made by the king and parliament together , so that the king has not the power to repeal them without a parliament , they secure the protestant religion against the enterprises of such kings as should ever think to destroy it . but now if this declaration be executed , we are no more to make any account of those solemn laws which have been passed in favour of the reformation , they become of no value , and the protestant religion is intirely left to the king's pleasure . this is what will clearly appear from what we are about to say . the king not having been able to obtain of the last parliament to consent to a repeal of the laws which had been made against the nonconformists , dissolved the parliament it self . not long after , without attending a new one , he did that alone by his declaration which the parliament would not do conjunctly with him . he granted a full liberty of conscience to the nonconformists ; he freed them from the penalties which had been appointed against them , and dispensed with the oaths to which the laws obliged all those who were admitted to any charges , whether in the soldiery , or in administration of justice , or of the government . in pursuance of these declarations he threw the protestants out of all places of any great importance to clap in papists in their room , and goes on without ceasing to the intire establishment of popery . who does not see , that if the protestants approve these declarations , and themselves authorise such enterprises , the king will not stop here , but that this will be only one step to carry him much further ? what can be said when he shall do the same thing with reference to those laws which exclude the papists out of the parliament , that he has done to those which shut them out of all charges and imploys , and forbad them the exercise of their religion ? does not the approbation of such declarations , as it overthrows these last , carry with it before hand the approbation of those which shall one day overthrow the former ? and if the king shall once give himself the authority to bring papists into the parliament , who shall hinder him from using solicitations , promises , threatnings , and a thousand other the like means to make up a popish parliament ? and who shall hinder him with the concurrence of that parliament to repeal all the antient laws that had been passed against popery , and make new ones against the protestants ? these are without doubt the natural consequences of what the king at this time aims at . these are the fruits which one ought to expect from it , if instead of approving as some have done his enterprises against the laws , they do not on the contrary with all imaginable vigor oppose them . reflect a little on what we have here said , and you will consess that we have reason to commend the conduct of the bishops who refused to publish the declaration ; and to condemn those dissenters who have made their addresses of thanks for it . it is true that the dissenters are to be pitied , and that they have been treated hardly enough , and we do not think it at all strange , that they so earnestly sigh after liberty of conscience . it is natural for men under oppression to seek for relief : and liberty of conscience considered only in it self , is it may be the thing of all the world the most precious and most desirable . would to god we were able to procure it for them by any lawful means , and without such ill consequences , tho' it were at the peril of our lives ! but we conjure them to consider how pernicious that liberty of conscience is which is offer'd to them , as we have just now shewn . on the one side , it is inseparably linked with the establishment of popery ; and on the other , it cannot be accepted without approving a terrible breach which his majesty thereby makes upon the laws , and which would be the ruine of the reformation in his kingdoms , were not some remedy brought to it . and where is the protestant who would buy liberty of conscience at so dear a rate , and not rather choose to continue deprived of it all his life ? should the private interest of our brethren the dissenters blind them in such a manner , that they have no regard to the general interest of the church ? should they for enjoying a liberty of conscience so ill assured , shut their eyes to all other considerations ? how much better would it be for them to re-unite themselves to the bishops , with whom they differ only in some points of discipline ; but especially at this time , when their conduct ought to have entirely defaced those unjust suspicions which they had conceived against them ? but if they could not so readily dispose themselves to such a re-union , would it not be better for them to resolve still to continue without liberty of conscience , and expect some more favourable time when they may by lawful means attain it , than to open themselves a gate to popery , and to concur with it to the ruine of the protestant religion ? you will , it may be , tell us , that it looks ill in us , who so much complain , that we have been deprived of liberty of conscience in france , to find fault with the king of england for granting it to his subjects : and that it is the least that can be allowed to a sovereign , to allow him the right to permit the exercise of his own religion in his own kingdoms , and to make use of the service of such of his subjects as himself shall think fit , by putting them into charges and employs . you will add , that his majesty does not go about neither to abrogate the antient laws , nor to make new ones . all he does being only to dispense with the observation of certain laws in such of his subjects as he thinks fit , and for as long time as he pleases ; and that the right of dispensing with , and suspending of laws , is a right inseparably ty'd to his person : that for the rest , the protestant religion does not run the least risque . there are laws to shut the papists out of parliament , and these laws can neither be dispensed with , nor suspended : so that the parliament partaking with the king in the legislative power , and continuing still protestant , there is no cause to fear , that any thing should be done contrary to the protestant religion . besides , what probability is there , that a king , who appears so great an enemy to oppression in matters of conscience and religion , should ever have a thought , tho he had the power himself , to oppress in this very matter the greatest part of his subjects , and take from them that liberty of conscience which he now grants to them , and which he promises so inviolably to observe for the time to come ? these are all the objections that can with any appearance of reason be made against what we have before said . they may all be reduced to five , which we shall examine in their order . and we doubt not but we shall easily make it appear , that they are all but meer illusions . . we do justly complain , that they have taken from us our liberty of conscience in france , because it was done contrary to the laws . and one may as justly complain , that the k of england does labour to re-establish popery in his country , because he cannot do it but contrary to the laws . our liberties in france were founded upon solemn laws , upon perpetual , irrevocable , and sacred edicts ; and which could not be recalled , without violating at once the public faith , the royal word , and the sacredness of an oath . and popery has been banished out of england by laws made by king and parliament , and which cannot be repealed but by the authority of king and parliament together ; so that therefore there is just cause to complain , that the king should go about to overthrow them himself alone by his declaration . . it is not true that a sovereign has always the right to permit the exercise of his own religion in his dominions , and to make use of the service of such of his subjects as he himself shall think fit , that is to say , by putting of them into charges and employs : and in particular , he has not this right , when the laws of his country are contrary thereunto , as they are in the case before us . every king is obliged to observe the fundamental laws of his kingdom . and the king of england , as well as his subjects , ought to observe the laws which have been established by king and parliament together . . for the third , the distinction between the abrogation of a law , and the dispensing with and suspending of it cannot here be of any use ; whether the king abrogates the laws which have been made against popery , or whether without saying expresly that he does abrogate them ; he overthrows them by his declarations , under pretence of dispensing with , or suspending of them ; it is still in effect the same thing . and to what purpose is it that the laws are not abrogated , if in the mean time all sorts of charges are given to papists , and popery it self be re-established contrary to the tenor of the laws ? the truth is , if the king has such a power as this , if this be a right necessarily tied to his person , 't is in vain that the parliament does partake with him in the legislature . this authority of the parliament is but a meer name , a shadow , a phantome , a chimera , and no more . the king is still the absolute master , because he can alone , and without his parliament , render useless by his declarations the laws which the parliament shall have the most solemnly established together with him . we confess the king has right of dispensing in certain cases , as if the concern be what belongs to his private interest , he may without doubt whenever he pleases depart from his own rights ; 't is a liberty which no body will pretend to contest with him . but he has not the power to dispense to the prejudice of the rights of the people , nor by consequence put the property , the liberty , and the lives of his protestant subjects into the hands of papists . . what we have now said in answer to the third objection , will be more clear from the answer we are to give to the fourth . they would perswade the protestants that their religion is in safety , because on the one side the king cannot make laws without the parliament ; and that on the other , there being laws which exclude papists out of the two houses , it must necessarily follow , that the parliament shall continue to be protestant . but if the king has the power to break throught the laws , under the pretence of dispensing with and suspending of them , what security shall the protestants have that he will not dispense with the papists , the observation of those laws which do exclude them out of the parliament , as well as he has dispensed with those that should have kept them out of charges and imployments ? what security shall they have that he will not at any time hereafter suspend the execution of the former , as he has already suspended the execution of the latter ? which being so , what should hinder us from seeing in a little time a popish parliament , who together with the king shall pass laws contrary to the protestant religion ? what difference can be shewn between the one and the other of these laws , that the one should be liable to be dispensed with and suspended , and the other not ? were they not both established by the king and parliament ? were not both the one and the other made for the security of the protestant religion , and of those who profess it ? are not the rights of the people concerned in the one , as well as in the other ? and whosoever suffers and approves the king in the violation of these rights in some things , does he not thereby authorise him to violate them in all ? if the king has power to put the liberty and property and lives of his protestant subjects at the mercy of the papists , by placing them in charges contrary to the law , why should he not have the power to raise the same papists to the authority of legislators by declaring them capable of sitting in parliament , seeing that is but contrary to law ? do not deceive your selves , the laws are the barrier which bound the authority of the king , and if his barrier be once broken , he will extend his authority as far as he pleases . and it will be impossible for you after that to set any bounds to it . . in fine , he must be very little acquainted with the spirit of popery , who imagines that it will be content to re-establish it self in england , without aiming to destroy the protestant religion . give it but time and opportunity to fortifie it self , and you may then expect to see what it is . in all places where it has got the power in its hands , it will not only rule , but rule alone , and not suffer any other religion besides it self ; and imploys the sword and fire to extirpate that which it calls heresie . were not this a truth confirmed by infinite examples both ancient and modern , which every one knows who has read any thing of history , it would be too much evidenced by the cruelties which it has so lately exercised against the churches of hungary , of france , and of the valleys of piemont . and men ought not to be lulled asleep by the pretence of an inclination which the king of england would be thought to have for liberty of conscience ; nor by the promises which he makes to preserve it to all his subjects without distinction . every one knows that perfidiousness and breach of faith are characters of popery no less essential to it than cruelty . can you doubt of this , gentlemen ? you who so lately came from making a sad experiment of it ? how often did our king promise us to preserve us in our priviledges ? how many declarations , how many edicts did he set out to that purpose ? how many oaths were taken to confirm those edicts ? did not this very king lewis xiv . himself solemnly promise by several edicts and declarations to maintain us in all the liberties which were granted to us by the edict of nantes ? and yet after all , what scruple was there made to violate so many laws , so many promises , and so many oaths ? the protestants of england have themselves also sometimes likewise experimented the same infidelity : and not to alledge here any other example , let us desire them to remember only the reign of queen mary , what promises she made at her coming to the crown , not to make any change of religion ; and yet what bloody laws she afterwards passed to extinguish the reformation as soon as she saw her self fast in the throne ? and with what inhumanity she spilt the blood of her most faithful subjects to accomplish that design ? after such an instance as this , a man must be very credulous indeed , and willing to deceive himself , that will put too much confidence in the promises of the king that now reigns . do we not know , that there are neither promises nor oaths which the pope does not pretend to have power to dispense with in those whom he employs for the extirpation of heresie ? and do we not also know , that it is one of the great maxims of popery , a maxim authorized both by the doctrin and practice of the council of constance , that they are not obliged to keep any faith with hereticks . we ought not to believe that king james ii. a prince who has so much zeal for popery , should be govern'd by any other maxims than those of his religion . and whosoever will take the pains to examine his conduct both before and since his coming to the crown , will find that he has more than once put 'em in practice . and this , gentlemen , we suppose may be sufficient to convince all reasonable persons , that there is nothing more pernicious than that declaration which you have approved ; whether by publishing it , as some of you have done , or by addressing to the king to thank him for it . when you shall have reflected upon these things , you will without doubt your selves confess , that you have suffered your selves to be amused with some imaginary advantages which you hope to make by this declaration . in the mean time , most dear brethren , you will pardon us , if we have chanced to have let any thing slip that is not agreeable to you . we had no design to give the least offence either to you , or to our brethren the dissenters of england . if we have spoken our thoughts freely of your conduct and of theirs , we have at least spoken with no less liberty of that of the bishops . and god is our witness , that we have said nothing of the one or the other , but in the sincerity of our heart , and out of a desire to contribute somewhat to his glory , and the good of his church . we are , most honoured brethren , your most humble , most obedient , and most affectionate brethren in jesus christ , n.n. the plea of the harmless oppressed, against the cruel oppressor approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the plea of the harmless oppressed, against the cruel oppressor halifax, george savile, marquis of, - . a letter to a dissenter. p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. "replying to halifax's a letter to a dissenter"--nuc pre- imprints. "includes (p. - ) text of declaration against dissenters by devonshire court of quarter sessions ( )"--nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the plea of the harmless oppressed , against the cruel oppressor . with allowance . this kingdom having suffered great miseries and calamities for several ages and generations past , and of late have been in a shaking unstable state and condition , by reason of the great animosities and divisions amongst the inhabitants ●hereof , and especially touching matters meerly concerning the worship of god , which alone belongs to the great god to appoint and order , whose prerogative alone it is to rule in the consciences of men ; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin , and the scriptures ●a●th , let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind : and now such is the dark depraved state of man-kind , that tho his understanding be so darkned , and his mind thus blinded by the prince of darkness , who rules in the hearts of the children of men , that he is always aspiring , and meddling with those matters that god hath reserved alone to himself , viz. to prescribe rules , and make orders for the worship of god ; tho the lord hath threatned , that because their fear to him is taught by mens precepts , he will proceed to do a marvellous work , and a wonder , for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish , &c. jer. . , . notwithstanding tho men generally in this kingdom profess scripture to be their rule , yet with what violence and cruelty hath the contrary been practised ? what laws have been made under severe penalties , to force people to this or that religion , whether they have faith in it or no ? or whether it be the true religion or no ? for tho some that have been violent in forcing , yet concludes there is no infallibility , and so as some have been thus wicked in forcing , others weak in conforming having been thus put on the rack either to suffer the loss of all that 's near and dear to them in this world , or make shipwrack of faith or a good conscience , and of everlasting life in the world ▪ to come ; but others have been so stedfast and resolved , so as not to wound or d●file their conscience , what sufferings both in prisons and spoyling of goods have such undergone , this present generation may afford pregnant and plentiful examples . and now on serious consideration of those violent practices , in forcing in matters of religion , and generally by men of no true religion , the forcing of many contrary to their consciences , to preserve their outward interest , and ruining , others , who chose rather to lose their outward concerns , to preserve their conscience ; whether this hath not been one of the greatest causes of those great revolutions , devastations ▪ and overturnings that have happened in these latter days , let the wise in heart judg . and then what can better tend to the stability , peace and union of the kingdom , then the removing the causes aforesaid ? viz. those laws by which many conscientious people have been destroyed , and others divided in their hearts one from another , and set one against another ; and indeed even the worse of men let loose to serve the devil ▪ & conscientious people prohibited to serve god in the way they were fully perswaded god required of them . and the lord having now put it into the heart of our king to relieve many under those great oppressions , and to propose a way for a future settlement , as by his princely d●claration is exprest , in which he hath exceeded all his ancestors that went before him ; of what w●ight is it for all his loyal subj●cts to joyn hea●t and hand with him in this blessed work , so much tending to the glory of almighty god , the honour of the king ▪ and the peace and tranquility of this kingdom ? and now there being a generation of men that appears greatly in opposition to this work , so happily begun , contrary to the expectations of many , which as the heart of the king is upright before the lord , the everlasting god will stand by him therein , and frustrate all the councels of those that oppose him , which generally are such whose interest is greatly concerned therein , who may greatly pretend worship , as sometimes demetrius the silver-smith did when his crast was in danger . and now there being several able pens that have writ on this subject , to assert the rights of liberty of conscience , and answer the great objection to the contrary , viz. tha● if these laws and tests be taken away , the great danger that may ensue thereby , even the flowing in of popery like a flood . which objection , tho it have been su●●iciently answered , yet it was before me to cast in my mite , and offer a few lines on this account , having taken notice of a certain pamphlet entit●led , a letter to a di●senter , and some passages therein ; it s not my purpose to answer particulars , it being sufficiently done by other hands : the drift of that paper seems to shew the da●ger of repealing the tests , as if there we●e no other way to keep out popery , whose principles and practice have been so dangerous and cruel , insinuating as if all the promises of free liberty in the kings declaration were but pretences to bring in a greater bondage , and that those address●s to him were ●irst drawn for that purpose ; and indeed , as if t●e king in his d●claration were not sincere but falacious ; also intimating how safe it may be for the church of england to be continued in power , & what indulgence she may give , saying , p. . if you had to do with thos● ridged prelates , who made it a matter of con●ience to give you the least indulgence , &c. but kept you at an uncharitable distance , and ev●n ●o your more reasonable scruples continued ●●iff and inexorable . for answer , what kept out popery before the test was made ? it being but about ●ifteen years old , and whether it may not be kept out for the future without the test as well as before ? it seems to me that ways sufficient have been proposed . and as for the kings sincerity in his declaration for liberty of conscience , what could he have done more then he hath done to assure his subjects of his reallity therein , and that they may confide in him accordingly ? but these fears seems to arise from groundless jealousies , rather the just cause , and evil suspition usually proceeding from an evil disposition , that would uphold its own interest more then the publick good , and would have a liberty to keep others in bondage . and as to what the church of england may do to give indulgence , and that if you had to do with those ridged prelates , &c. some of their former practices and resolves may sufficiently manifest , whereof some instances may be given ; i may give two , first the orders of the quarter sessions in the county of devon , three of them in print coming to my hand , the first , the tenth of ianuary . the second , the twenty fifth of april . and the third , the second of october . to all of them is annexed the great app●obation and commendation of the bishop of exon , with his order for all the clergy in his diocess to publish the same the ●ext sunday after tendred to them : i think it too large to expose them all in print , but i think it convenient to print the last of them , and i shall mention particulars of their resolves in the former , with some observations thereon , and then l●ave i● to the moderate to judg . but before i go on with this , it coming to my mind what the author of the letter saith , viz. it is not ●o long , since as to be forgott●n , that the maxim was , that it is impossible for a di●sen●er not to be a reb●l . i may give a few words in answer hereunto . it seems this to be the maxim of the church of england , i s●ppose none questions but that the bishop , justices and grand ●ury o● the county of devon , were church of england men. and in their pre●ace to the ●irst order , of the tenth of ianuary . they thus express themselves , viz. forasmuch as religion is the foundation of civil government , and while faction and schism is allowed and permitted in the church , we can never expect peace and quiet in the state ; and observing at this time ( as we have by sad experience heretofore ) that those that dissent from us , in our established religion , of what perswasion soever , tho at seeming variance and difference among themselves , yet they agree in their wicked attemps upon the government , and their traiterous plots and designs against the kings sacred person — and therefore do unanimously resolve effectually to put the laws in execution against all dissenters , whether papists or sectaries . and so by this its manifest that its their maxim ; and ●o you may see what quarter the dissenters are like to have from the church of england . and in their order of the second of october . they thus express themselves , we have been so abundantly convinc'd of the seditious and rebellious practises of the sectaries and phanaticks , who through the course of an hundred years , since we were first infected with 'em , have scarce afforded this unhappy kingdom any interval of rest from their horrid treasons , as that we must esteem 'em , not only the open enemies of our established government , but to all the common principles of society and humanity it self ; wherefore that we may prevent their horrid conspiracies for time to come , we resolve to put the severest of the laws ( which we find too easie and gentle , unless enlivened by a vigorous execution ) in force against ' em . now observe , o how horrible zealous and charitable are these church men of england ! it seems nothing but a vigorous execution of those laws will serve their turn , and what these laws are may be seen in a book , lately put forth , called draconica , which one whereof at least is death without conformity : are these the old friends that the author of the letter talks of ? we may well say , from such friends , good lord d●liver us ; far better venture to cast our selves on the new : may we not justly reason a● the fo●r leperous men did , that were without the gate of samaria , . kings . , . that if they staid there they must dye , and the like if they went into the city , and then resolved to fall into the hoste of the assyrians , &c. and what is our case better in relation to ●ur old friends ? for by these lawes , here is nothing but loss of all visible enjoyments , for the conventicle act will soon fetch all that away , and the thirty fifth of elizabeth takes life and all , a●d no ranso● to be accepted , but the shipwrack of a good conscience , and so everlasting life ; a dear purchase indeed . and as for the former wars in this land , may not the ground of them , in a great measure , be imputed to the violent persecution of church of england men against people for their consciences ; and as for the late rebellion , were none ingaged therein but such as these men call sectaries and phanaticks ? it s well known to the contrary ; was not monmouth a church of england man ? and the lord gray a church of england man ? and other eminent men who suffered , and the most part of those that were co●demned on that account were such as did frequent the fervice of the church of england ; so that the church of england men are ●ot the only men free of th●t which is charged upon dissenters . and in their order of the tenth of ianuary they say we order and agree that all church-wardens and overseers for the poor , that shall give and allow any relief to any that are able of body , and do not repair every sunday to their parish church , and there abide soberly and orderly during the whole time of divine service , no such contribution in the passing their act shall be allowed . what law there is for this i know not ; some wise church men of some eminency have declared their opinion otherwise , but it seems by this devenshire law , the poor must come to church or starve , and the bishop highly app●oves this order , and saith they that signed it ( which were twenty eight justices of the peace ) have approved themselves , good subjects to his majesty , true sons of the church of england , and good patri●ts of their country ; the lord will have mercy , and not sacrifice , but these men will have sacrifice without mercy . and in their order of the twenty fifth of april . they say t●at no person shall be permitted to keep ale-houses , but such as repair to church , and produce a certificate that they have at least twice in the year last past , received the sacrament of the lords supper , according to the usage of the church to england . observe , it seems right or wrong they must recei●e it , or not sell ale , tho they eat and drink their own damnation ; it s the usage of the church of england , but i find no such usage in the church of christ ; and now consider here is sacrifice required , but no mercy to body nor soul. and in the same order they say . and we would have all those schismatical factious people , who upbraid us with the countenancing debauchery & ludeness , to look back upon the late times , and they will find it was their schism and rebellion ( and which was prologued with such an entry as this too ) which at first weakened , and at last brake down the banks of government , and let in upon us a deluge of pro●ainness and irreligion : these men would seem greatly to be agains● profainness and irreligion , and zealous for worsh●ps and services ; have they forgot , that within the memory of some yet alive , how there was a book for recreation to be used on the sunday for dancing and other sports , was this to suppress or incourage profainness and irreligion , and by whom was that book set forth , and ordered to be read in all parish churches in the kingdom , and several ministers suspended for refusing to r●ad it ? and when the church of england ( after a time of interruption ) came again into her seat , what a flood of wickedness followed , so that the king was then pleased to give forth a declaration against it , expressing that h● was ashamed of their drinking of healths , and other looseness , or to that effect . and now these men would throw all the dirt they can upon dissenters , and wipe their mouthes , as if the church of england were the only spotless assembly ; there 's an eye open that sees them , and how consciencious sober men have suffered by them , many of the goals in this kingdom are witnesses thereof ; many others particulars may be taken notice of , in these orders worthy of observation , wherein that spirit is manifested , that under the profession of zeal for god , the honour of the king , and the preservation of the established religion ( as they say ) have persecuted and ruined many so●er co●scious , and industrious families and people ; and the bishop highly applauds these orders , and gives order for the reading of them by the clergy of his diocess , in their parish churches , and subscribes to it tho. exon. and because the author of the said letter to dissenters saith , if you had now to do with those ridged prelates , &c. i will give one instance more as before hinted , of a prelate now , or very lately in being . a certain prelate acting as a justice of the peace , with some other justices , convicted a meeting of dissenters , twelve miles from their homes , on the oathes of two credible witnesses , as they say ( one of which not long after was convicted for perjury , and stood in the pillory for the same ) seven of these dissenters coming before the said prelate , or bishop , and because it was so far from their homes , borrowed each of them a horse or mare to ride ; being fined three pounds a piece , they were all kept prisoners in the bishops palace , until about seven at night , it being in february , and in the mean time all their horses taken away ( tho not their own , nor either of the owners at the meeting ) and sold or conveyed them away ; the horses were worth thirty two pounds ten shillings , the owner of one of them redeemed his mare for seven pound ; and it being alledged that the seven horses were not sufficient to pay the fine , they ordered them to be had to an inn , and strip of their cloaths , it being dark , about seven at night : one of the dissenters , when they were come into the street , said , they would not go into an inn , but if they would strip them , they should do it in the street , and there made a stand ; and a concourse of people coming about them , and they declaring their unchristian dealing with them , the executioners were almost ashamed , and left the prisoners , the townsmen standing by them , and promised not one cloath should be taken from them , and so they returned with the loss of the seven horses . now what the author of the letter accounts ridgedness is a question , if these actions do not render these men ridged prelates , let men of moderation judg ; many other particulars of cruelty may be instanced , that men of civility and humanity would even blush to hear of , acted by force of those laws ( utterly contrary to christianity and humanity ) by church of england-men upon the dissenters , which these devonshire men in one of their orders do account the open enemies to all the common principles of society and humanity it self ; and now let the right●ous just god judge between us , if principles may be judged by a●tio●s , who are the greatest enemies to common principles of society and humanity ? and if these church men do intend what they say , what conscientious man can ●●joy a being amongst them , wi●hout conformit● to their o●ders ? they further say in thei● order of the twenty fifth of april . having found the good effects of the order and res●lutions agreed on last sessions , for the putting the laws in execution against diss●nters , it having wrought so great a reformation , and ( in those parts where it was observed ) reduced most of those wandering people into the bosom of their mother church , which they had undutifully forsaken , w● are incouraged and resolved chearfully to proceed in the method we have begun . but the everlasting almighty god hath beheld you , and heard the cry of many poor widows and fatherless , who have been crush'd by your oppressive laws , and cruel ex●●c●tioners , a●d put a stop to your carriere , and at present put a limit to your power for his name sake and elects sake . but now let me a little inquire into the good effect of your orders and resolutions , & the great reformation wro●ght ●h●re 〈◊〉 ; you sa● , you have reduced many wandering people in●o the bos●●●f their mother church , &c. your m●aning is , they co●e to 〈◊〉 , but are they converted conscientio●sl● to come there , 〈…〉 come only for fear of your ●ruel ●n●ent●ons to put th● 〈◊〉 excecu●ion upon them ? doubtless on the l●●ter acco●nt , 〈…〉 they are but proselites or hypocrite● , seems s●ch members 〈◊〉 wel with your church , but wha● bene●●● or ●ewa●d are ●ou l●ke to have from god or man , thus to make p●o●●lites or h●pocrites ? how many poor souls hav● you , by your cruel laws , an● excecutione●s , made to violate their consciences , and make shipwrack of faith ? i think the present thinness of your assem●li●s may by this time convince you that you made but hypocrites i●st●ad of converts ; consider seriously , was it ever the practice or order of christ or his apostles thus to force people to the wo●ship which he set up , and they practiced ? was it not thei● way to convince by a holy and humble life and conversation , and sound doctrine ? if you object , there were then no christian magistrates ; i answer , if christ iesus had seen need of them , for his work , he could have called and converted them , but his way was to intreat and perswade by love , and not to compel by force . and now , o that you had hearts , to understand , eyes to see , and ears to hear , for the violence and oppression done by you to many of the lords people , and repent of your doings , for god hath heard the cry of the oppressed , and is risen for their deliverance , and do not strive to uphold those laws which god will remove , and be still and quiet , least you be found fighters against god , and the lord break you to pieces . for what ever your imaginations are , that god , that hath the hearts of kings in his hand , hath put it into the heart of our king , to relieve many of the lords oppressed people , & break the yoak of the oppressor , and the lord will stand by him in this work , and overthrow the attempts , and confound the counsels of them that oppose him ; many hath been the eminent deliverances and preservations the lord hath afforded him , and who knows but that he hath reserved and brought him to the crown for this very purpose ; for the work is the lord● that he hath begun , & its very acceptable to him , and what peace and quietness ●ath his subjects enjoyed under his government ? only some that disturb themselves with their own fears , because such disappointments are come upon them , so that they are ready to fret & curse their god and their king , isa. . . and nothing will satisfie such , but ●uch lib●rty to themselves , by which they may keep others in bondage . i say unto such , take heed how you meddle with gods prerogative , his rule in the consciences of people , he ha●h long born with you on that account , and your time is now to r●pent of what you have done , and not strive ●o keep up that power which god will destroy ; and be content to enjoy equal liberty with your fellow su●je●ts , and let ●hose l●ws and te●ts , by which people hath be●n thus long e●slaved , be taken awa● , and that such a magna charta may be made , so that i● may never be i● the power of any person or persons whatsoever to tyranize or bear rule over the conscience of any , or ruin or oppress them in their persons or estates on that account ; but let every one walk in the way of his god , and worship him as god shall perswade him in his conscience , and then sit down quietly under his own vine , micah . . but it s the great artifice of that spirit , that would usurp authority over the conscience , to perswade people , that if the test be taken away , then popery will come in . the test is but about fifteen years old , and what hath kept it out before the test , as is said before , our god is a god of justice and mercy , and he requires it of men , and let it be done to all , and trust god with the event ; do not people thus reasoning manifest their forgetfulness of god ? as indeed they have in making and severely excecuting those laws , to the ruin of many conscientious people . and now i cannot well omit to observe the spirit and temper of the author of the lett●r to dissenters , what insinuations he uses ; sometimes as if the church of england were blamed for compliance , and accounted trimmers for enduring dissenters , and then how safe is it to keep to them , and many insinuations against the king , as his dispencing power , ( tho to save many of his subjects from ruin ) and as if all he did were to advance his own prerogative , with many insinuations tending to alienate the hearts of his subjects from him , and then with a spirit of high arrogancy speaks proudly , saying , what-ever may be told you at this very hour , and in the heat and glare of your present sun-shine , the church of england can in a moment bring clouds again , and turn the royal thunder upon your heads , blow you off the stage with a breath , if she would give but a smile , or a kind word , the least glimps of her compliance would throw you back into the state of sufferings , &c. now indeed , if we measure the church of england by this letter and the devonshire order , and resolves , we were of all people most miserable , however we are not affrighted at high words , psa. . . the lord shall cut off all flattering lips , and the tongue that speaks proud things , but he farther saith , the church of england , with all her faults , chuses rather to bear the weight of power thenly under the burthen of h●r being criminal : it seems she would be accounted innocent with all the voiolence , and cruelty , ruin and spoyl , she and her purjured informers , and envious priests hath done upon many honest consciencious men , but the just god will reckon with her for all ; and i cannot yet believe that she is so formidable , that the king or we have need of her smiles , or fear the want of them , what vertue they may be of to us we know not , the informers and such like have had them as yet , and indeed there must be a great change in her , or us if ever they fall to our lot ; however we have lived under her cruel frowns , and are yet alive , tho she f●owns at that too , when god shall fulfil that which he hath spoken by the mouth of the prophet , is● . . . then let such beware , and therefore its good for them not to be high minded , but fear : the author sâith , it cannot be said that she is unprovoked : books and letters comes out every day ; it seems it is but by books and letters , &c. it is not by goals , and spoyling of goods , and ruining of widdows and fatherless , as she hath provoked god , and many of his people , and will she now be offended that she can do so no longer . why should she not be contented to enjoy equal liberty with others . god forbid that any of us should do to her as she hath done to us , and that for our consciences towards god ; but if the lord will do it , who or what can hinder it , but her timely and unfained repentance . and now my dear country-men that are dissenters , by those papers before mentioned , you may see what is the minde of those church men , and therefore as the lord puts an oppertunity into your hands for future liberty , be diligent to inprove it , and use the best endeavors for the removing those laws and tests by which so many have cruelly suffered ; and trust god , who will bring to pass his great work , and if he have raised up and preserved the king for that purpass , and endued him with wisdom and courage for that end , le ts trust him also in his gracious declaration , and often repeated resolutions for that purpose , and pray unto god for the prosperity of this work in his hands , and not believe , the vain insinuations of such who profess much loyalty to him , while he is serving their ends , but in the disappointments thereof , becomes his secret enemies . and if any inquire who , and wha● i am , they may assure themselves that i am a dissente● from the church of england , and have so been m●r● then forty years ; and be assured also , that i am not a roman cath●lick , but o●e ●hat desires the good of all men , and that none may ●uffer for conscience sake , and do pray for the king and 〈◊〉 ha● are in authority under him , that we all may lead ou●●ives in a●l godliness ●nd honesty , and that as the lord hath begun this grea● work by him , so he may live to see the same pe●fected , and that he may have his reward from god accordingly , and we all a peaceable government under him , that god may have the glory of all for ever . i am of the pure religion , which is to visit fatherless and widdows in their affliction , and keep unspotted of the world. devon ss . ad general . quarterial session . pacis dom. regis tent . apud castr. exon. in & pro comitat. praed . secundo die octobris , anno regni dom. nostri caroli secundi dei gratia angliae , scotiae , franciae , & hiberniae regis , fidei defensor , &c. tricessimo quinto , annoque dom. . we have been so abundantly convinced of the seditious and rebellious practices of the sactaries and phanaticks , who through the course of above one hundred years since we were first infe●ted with 'em , have scarce afforded this unhappy kingdom any interval of rest from their horrid treasons , as that we must esteem 'em , not only the open enemies of our established government , but to all the common principles of society and humanity it self . wherefore , that we may prevent their horrid conspiracies for the time to come , and secure ( as much as in us lies ) our most gracious king and the government from the fury and malice of 'em , we resolve to put the severest of the lawes ( which we find too easie and gentle , unless enlivened by a vigorous execution ) inforce against ' em . . we agree and resolve , in every division of this country , to require sufficient sureties for the good abearing and peaceable behaviour of all such as we may justly suspect , or that we can receive any credible information against , that they have been at any conventicles & unlawful meetings , or at any factious or seditious clubs ; or that have by any discourses discovered themselves to be dis-affected to the present established government , either in church or state ; or that have been the authors or publishers of any seditious libels ; or that shall not in all things duely conform themselves to the present established government . . because we have a sort of false men , and more persidious than professed phanaticks , who either wanting courage to appear in their own shape , or the better to bring about their treasonable designs , privately associate with , and encourage the seditious clubs of the sectaries , and with them plot heartily against the government ; and yet , that they may pass unsuspected , sometime appear in the church with a false shew of conformity , only to save their money , and the better to serve their faction : that we may ( if possible ) distinguish and know all such dangerous enemies , we will strictly require all church-wardens and constables , at all our monthly meetings , to give us a full account of all such as do not every sunday resort to their own parish churches , and are not at the beginning of divine service , and do not behave themselves orderly and soberly there , observing all such desent ceremonies as the laws enjoyn : and that they likewise present unto us the names of all such as have not received the holy sacrament of the lords supper in their own parish churches thrice in the year . . being fully satisfied , as well by the clear evidence of the late horrid plot , as by our own long and sad experience , that the non-conformist preachers are the authors and fomenters of this pestilent faction , and the implacable enemies of the established government , and to whom the late execrable treasons , which have had such dismal effects in this kingdom , are principally to be imputed , and who by their present obstinate refusing to take and subscribe an oath and declaration , that they do not hold it lawful to take up arms against the king , and that they will not endeavour any alteration of government either in church or state ; do necessarily enforce us to conclude , that they are still ready to engage thems●lves , ( if not actually engaged ) in some rebellious conspiracy against the king , and to invade and subve●t his government : wherefore ●e resolve in every parish of this county , to leave strict warrants in the hands of all constabl●s , for the seizing of such persons . and as an encouragement to all officers and others , that shall be instrum●ntal in the apprehending of any of them , so as they may be brought to justice , we will give and allow forty shillings , as a reward , fo● every non-conformist preacher that shall be so secured . and we resolve to prosecute them , and all other such dangerous enemies of the gover●ment , and common a●senters from ●hurch , and frequenters of conventicles , according to the d●rections of a law made in the five and t●i●tie●h ●ear of the r●ign of queen elizabeth , entituled , an act for the keeping her majesties subjects in due obedience . lastly . that we may never fo●get the infinite mercies of almighty god , in the la●e w●nderful del●verance of our gracious king , and his dearest brother , and all his loyal subjects , ( who were designed for a massacre ) from the horrid conspiracy of the ●hanaticks , and their accomplices ; and that we may perpetuate as well our own thankfulness , as their infamy , that the generations to come may know their treachery , and avoid and never trust men of such principles more ; and also that we our selves may perform our publick duty to almighty god , before we enter upon the publick service of our country : we order , resolve , and agree , with advice an● oncurrence of the right reverend father in god our much honored and worthy lord bishop to give and bestow for the beautifying of the chappel in the castle of exon , and for the erecting of decent seats there , ten pounds : and we will likewise give and continue six pounds to be paid yearly to any one of the church of exon , whom the said lord bishop shall appoint , to read the divine service with the prayers lately appointed for the day of thanksgiving on the ninth of september last , and to preach a sermon exhorting to obedience , in the said chappel , on the first day of every general quarter-sessions of the peace held in the said ●astle , to ●egin precisely at eight of the clock in the morning . and may the mercies of heaven ( which are infinite ) always protect our religious and gracious king , his dearest brother , and every branch of that royal family ; and may all the treasonable conspiracies of those rebellious schismaticks be always thus happily prevented . hugo vaughan , cler. pacis com. proed . that the ●●ntinued care of his majesties iustices of the peace for the county of devon , for the safety of his majesties sa●r●d person , the preservation of the publick peace , and advancement of true religion , may be fuller known , and have a better effect ; i do hereby order and require all the clergy of my diocess within the county of devon , deliberately to publish this order , the next sunday after it shall be tendred to them . tho. exon. postscript . i intended brevity in this paper , for should i have set my self to answer all particulars in the said letter and devonshire orders , it might amount even to a volume , to set forth the secret treachery & false insinuations against the king in the letter , and cruel intentions and resolutions in the devonshire orders , before mentioned . however , i thought meet that the last of th●se orders may be with what is before expressed exposed to publick view , that all may see the nature of that spirit , which hath exercised such cruelty on innocent people , and what their resolutions further were , if the lord for his elect sake , had not raised up , and put it into the heart of the king to shorten the days of their power ; and against all the jealousies and fears suggested , that this present liberty and freedom is but to make way for further bondage and slavery , that so they may uphold those cruel laws and tests , for a future opertunity to exercise their former tyranny , and is it condemnable in the church of rome , and justifiable in the church of england . it s left to the serious consideration of all that loves true freedom rather then cruel bondage , whether it be not far better to accept and trust the king , for the liberty and freedom promise● in his princely declaration , and since often confirmed by expressing the reality and sincerity of his resolutions therein , the● labour to uphold those laws and tests that may inable those church of england men to prosecute their cruel intentions and resolutions in those orders express'd , which tho but the orders a●d resolutions of the bishop , justices and grand jury of one county , yet without much straining may be taken for the general resolutions of the church of england , whose practice hath spoken forth as much . yet one thing more coming to my view , i leave to be consider●d , the author of the letter saith , the church of rome doth not only dislike the allowing of liberty , but byits principles it cannot do it . i answer , is not the principles of the church of england , and some others not far different , tho dissenting fro● them , the same ? their practices have evin●ed it . however the king hath not only declared it to be his principle , that conscience ought not to be forc't , and that all men ought to enjey the liberty of their conscience ; but hath performed the same accordingly . and when the former king charles the second had give● out a declaration to that purpose , what opposition did the church of england make against it , pretending a dislike of the manner of it , but never offered to do in a way which they might account legal ; but rather crush'd it in the bud , plainly manifesting their principles to be such , that none should enjoy that liberty but themselves ; and now are greatly offended that the king that now is hath done it ; so that its evident , it should never be done if they could help it : and now whether it be not best for the dissenters to chuse the new friends before the old ; but they say , this will not hold , its good to hold it while we can , and if it be taken away we are but where we were before , some in goals till death set them at libe●ty , and others goods spoyled by the worst of men , being let loose for that purpose , and no guard for them , unless purchased with the loss of a good conscience . i further answer , suppose the principles of the church of rome be such , the church of england is the same ; but can nei●her of these be converted from such principles ? they are not likely while they account them just and good : now that the church of england do so account them their sentiments in the devonshire orders do manifest , and their resolves to prosecute them accordingly , and what else can be expected should hinder ●h●m , for they will have their sa●rifice , tho without mercy to the poor widdows and fatherless ; for if they will not come to church and stay their all the tim● of their divine service , they must have no relief by thei● devonshire law , and so here 's li●●le hope of the conversion of the church of e●gland from this p●inciple , and therefore its good that thos● laws may be taken away that gives th●m p●wer to put them in practice . and now wh●●her that the king , if his principles were such as these men su●ge●t , ( but himself otherwise affirms ) whether there be not a possibility that he may be converted ? was not paul while saul a persecutor , yet by the lor●s power converted ? king manasseth the like . and now whether there is not as much hope of this kings conversion as the church of england's , if not from his religion , yet from this principle , which yet he hath declared is not his principle , and by his practice hath put a limit to the same , and proposed a way to cut o●f its power forever , and settle f●eedom , & liberty of conscience , so that it shall not be in the power of after ages to alter it ; and so let 's try whether the king intends as he says , and let a parliament when called be ready to joyn with him therein ; and i doubt not but the everlasting ●lmighty god will add a blessing unto a work so acceptable to him . and therefore let me conclude with this , the lord bless and prosper the king in this work he hath begun , and discover all the secret conspiracies , councells and contrivings of all that design to oppose or hinder the same , and crown him with everlasting life in the world to come . page . line . for the read then . p. . l. . f. persecution , r. prosecutio● l. . f. act , r. accompt . p. . l. . f. to , r. of . a perswasive to moderation to church dissenters , in prudence and conscience humbly submitted to the king and his great councel . by one of the humblest and most dutiful of his dissenting subjects . remarks upon a pamphlet stiled , a letter to a dissenter , &c. in another letter to the same dissenter . vox cleri pro rege : or the rights of the imperial soveraignty of the crown of england vindicated . in reply to a late pamphlet pretending to answer a book , entituled the iudgment and doctrine of the clergy of the church of england concerning the king prerogative in dispencing with penal laws . in a letter to a friend . advice to freeholders and other electors of members to serve in parliament . in relation to the penal laws and tests . in a letter to a friend in the country . reasons for the repeal of the tests . in a letter to a friend in the country . old popery as good as new. or the unreasonableness of the church of england in some of her doctrines and practices , and the reasonableness of liberty of conscience . in a letter from a private gentleman in the country to his friend a clergy-man in the city . the great and popular objection against the repeal of the penal laws and tests , briefly stated and considered . pax redux , or the christian reconciler . in three parts . being a project for re-uniting all christians into one sole communion . done out of french into english , by philip ayres esq. three letters tending to demonstrate how the security of this nation against all future persecution for religion , lys in the abolishment of the present penal laws and tests , and in the establishment of a new law for universal liberty of conscience . a rational catechism : or , an instructive conference between a father and a son. by the author of the three letters all sold at the three keys , in nags-head-court , in grace-church-street , over-against the conduit . persecution for religion judg'd and condemned in a discourse between an antichristian and a christian : proving by the law of god and of the land, and by king james his many testimonies, that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testifie his allegiance by the oath appointed by law. helveys, thomas, ?- ? approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) persecution for religion judg'd and condemned in a discourse between an antichristian and a christian : proving by the law of god and of the land, and by king james his many testimonies, that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testifie his allegiance by the oath appointed by law. helveys, thomas, ?- ? [ ], - p. printed in the years and and now reprinted for the establishing some and convincing others, [london] : . "helveys, thomas, ?- ?" appears in manuscript on verso of t.p. proving also that the spiritual power in england is the image of the spiritual cruel power of rome, or that beast mentioned, rev. , manifesting the fearful estate of those who subject to such powers, that tyrannize over the conscience: and shewing the unlawfulness of flying, because of the trouble men see or fear is coming upon them. to which is added an humble supplication to the kings majesty ... " epistle dedicatory signed : "ana-baptists." to "an humble supplication to the kings majesty" is added "wherein (among other things) is proved, . that the learned usually erre and resist truth. . that persecution is against the law of jesus christ. . against the profession and practice of famous princes. . condemened by ancient and later writers. . freedom in religion not hurtful to any common-wealth, and it depriveth not kings of any power given them of god." reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. anabaptists -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion persecution for religion judg'd and condemn'd : in a discoure , between an antichristian and a crhistian . proving by the law of god and of the land , and by king james his many testimonies , that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion , so he testifie his allegiance by the oath appointed by law. proving also , that the spiritual power in england , is the image of the spiritual cruel power of rome , or that beast mentioned , rev. . manifesting the fearful estate of those who subject to such powers , that tyrannize over the conscience : and shewing the unlawfulness of flying , because of the trouble men see or fear is coming upon them . to which is added , an humble supplication to the kings majesty ; wherein ( among other things ) is proved , . that the learned usually erre and resist the truth . . that persecution is against the law of jesus christ . . against the profession and practice of famous princes . . condemned by ancient and later writers . . freedom in religion not hurtful to any common-wealth , and it depriveth not kings of any power given them of god. cor. . . for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal , but mighty through god , to the pulling down of strong holds . printed in the years , . and . and now reprinted for the establishing some , and convincing others , . to all that truly wish jerusalem's prosperity and babylons destruction ; wisdom and understanding be multiplyed upon you . in these dayes , if ever , that is true which the wiseman said , eccl. . . there is no end in making many books , and much reading is a weariness to the flesh : yet considering how heinous it is in the sight of the lord to force men and women by cruel persecutions , to bring their bodies to a worship whereunto they cannot bring their spirits ; we thought it our duty for gods glory , and the reformation thereof in this our own nation , to publish this little writing following , wherein is manifestly proved by the law of god , the law of our land , and his majesties own divers testimonies , that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion , be it true of false , so he testifie his faithful allegiance to the king. what shall men do striving about matters of religion till this be ended ? for , if this be a truth , that the kings of the earth have power from god to compel by persecution all their subjects to believe as they believe , then wicked is it to resist , and the persecutions of such is justly upon them , and the magistrates that execute the same are clear from their blood , and it is upon their own heads : but if the kings of the earth have not power from god to compel by persecution any of their subjects to believe as they believe ( seeing faith is the work of god ) then no lesse wicked is it in the sight of god to disobey , and the persecutions of such are upon the magistrates , and the blood of the persecuted cryeth unto the lord , and will be required at the magistrates hands . wherefore in all humility , reverence and loyalty we do humbly desire of our sovereign lord the king , and all gods ministers under him , as judges , justices of peace , &c. by whom this persecution is executed , themselves to consider , not whether herein they please lord bishops , but whether they please the lord jesus christ , who after a little while shall judge all judges according to their works , without respect of persons , and therefore are commanded to kiss the son lest he be angry , and they perish in the way , psal . . our humble desire is , that they would consider what is testified in the scriptures ; that the kings of the earth shall give their power unto the beast , till the words of god be fulfilled ; then shall they take their power from her . if it be granted ( as it is ) that the kings of this nation formerly have given their power unto that romish beast , it shall evidently appear that our lord the king , and all magistrates under him , do give their power to the same beast , though the beast be in another shape : for , as that spiritual power or beast of rome sets up a worship ( as they pretend ) for god , and force all thereto by cruel persecutions , the kings of the earth giving their power thereunto ; so this spiritual power , or beast of england , sets up a worship ( as they pretend ) for god , and force all thereto by cruel persecutions , the kings majesty giving his power hereunto . oh that all that are in authority would but consider by the word of god ( which shall judge them at the last day ) what they do , when they force men against their souls and consciences to dissemble to believe as they believe , or as the king and state believe , they would withdraw their hands and hearts therefrom , and never do as they have done , partly through inconsideration , and partly to please lord bishops being in favour with the king. it cannot but with high thankfulness to god , and to the king , be acknowledged of all , that the kings majesty is no blood-thirsty man , for if he were , bodily destruction should be the portion of all that fear god , and endeavour to walk in his wayes , as may be seen in the primitive time of this spiritual power , or beast of england , after that k. henry the eight had cast off the romist beast and since ( so far as leave hath been granted them ) by hanging , burning , banishing , imprisoning , and what not , as the particulars might be named . yet our most humble desire of our lord the king , is , that he would not give his power to force his faithful subjects to dissemble to believe as he believes , in the least measure of persecution ; though it is no small persecution to lye many years in filthy prisons , in hunger , cold , idleness , divided from wife , family , calling , left in continual miseries and temptations , so as death would be to many less persecution ; seeing his majesty confesseth , that to change the mind must be the work of god. and of the lord bishops we desire , that they would a little leave off persecuting those that cannot believe as they , till they have proved that god is well-pleased therewith , and the souls of such as submit are in safety from condemnation ; let them prove this , and we protest we will for ever submit unto them , and so will thousands : and therefore if there be any spark of grace in them , let them set themselves to give satisfaction either by word or writing , or both . but if they will not , but continue their cruel-courses as they have done , let them yet remember that they must come to judgment , and have their abominations set in order before them , and be torn in pieces when none shall deliver them . and whereas they have no other colour of ground out of the scriptures , than that they have canonized a law , viz. that whosoever shall affirm that the kings majesty hath not the same power over the church that the godly kings of israel had under the law , &c. let him be excommunicate ipso facto . the unsoundness of which ground is manifested in this dialogue following , wherein is shewed their palpable ignorance , in that they know not the mystery of god ; and therefore have they made this canon in flattery to the king , only to support their pride and cruelty : for , if the kingdom or land of israel , or canaan now under the gospel , be an earthly kingdom or land , or israel now a worldly or fleshly israel , as both were under the law , then we would confess there should be an earthly king thereof : but if the kingdom of israel now be not earthly , but heavenly , joh. . . and the israelites now not of this world , joh. . . then the king thereof is not of this world , as they are not of this world , joh. . . and if these spiritual lords confess that christ is king now of the land and people of israel , but yet he hath left our lord the king his deputy , to make such laws and lords over the church as pleaseth him ; the word of the lord is against them , there is but one lord , ( cor. . . ) and one law-giver ( jam. . . ) over his church . nay , his majesty himself is against them , who saith , there is no earthly monarch over the church , whose word must be a law. and saith further , christ is his churches monarch , and the holy ghost his deputy , alledging luk. . . the kings of the gentiles bear rule one over another , &c. but it shall not be so among you . saying further , christ when he ascended , left not peter with them to direct them in all truth , but promised to send the holy ghost to them for that end , &c. if any will be rebellious against the word of the lord herein , yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king. oh that any thing would prevail with them to make them leave off these cruel courses , of persecuting poor souls that desire truly to fear god , and are most faithful subjects to the king , and desire also the salvation of the souls of these their cruel persecrutors , who do seek their utter undoing by all the fore-named persecutions , only because they cannot of faith offer up such worship to god as these spiritual lords command ; and the rather let them leave off persecuting , seeing the kings majesty acknowledgeth , it is a sure rule in divinity , that god loves not to plant his church by violence and bloodshed . and if it be a law for all christians , that in indifferent things one must not offend another , but the strong to forbear rather than offend his weak brother ; otherwise he wounds the weak conscience , and sins against christ , cor. . then how much less hath any man power to be lord over the weak conscience , forcing it to practise that it hath not faith in , bringing it thereby unto sin , and unto condemnation , rom. . we do unfainedly acknowledge the authority of earthly magistrates , god's blessed ordinance , and that all earthly authority and command appeartains unto them ; let them command what they will , we must obey , either to do or suffer upon pain of gods displeasure , besides their punishment : but all men must let god alone with his right , which is to be lord and law-giver to the soul , and not command obedience for god where he commandeth none . and this is onely that which we dare not but maintain upon the peril of our souls , which is greater than bodily affliction : and only for the maintenance of christs right herein , do false prophets and deceivers ( who by that craft are cloathed in fine apparrel , and fare deliciously every day ) labour to make us odious in the ears and eyes of prince and people , knowing well that if they had not power by persecution to force men to dissemble to believe as they , their kingdom and gain would soon come to nought ; the wickedness of which course is discovered in this writing following . for the manner , being dialogue-wise , we thought it the fittest in two respects : first , for the understanding of the simple , to whom especially gods mysteries appertain , more than to the wise and prudent of the world . secondly , because all the objections that we have met with , might be set down , and the plainlyer answered . and because we have faith and assurance that many will see and acknowledge the unlawfulness of tyrannizing over the conscience , by persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject , we have also though it meet to manifest the fearful estate of such subjection , that they may deliver their souls , if they will be saved : and also have set down the beginning of that old and good way , that john baptist , christ jesus and his apostles have left unto all that will be saved unto the end of the world . beseeching that almighty worker , that he would work in the hearts and consciences of men , that they may enquire for it , and that out of the scriptures , and walk therein ; then shall they find rest unto their souls , although afflictions to their bodies . oh it is time for the lord to work , for they have destroyed his law , and have set up in many nations such worship for god as best pleaseth them that are in authority , and have power to persecute the contrary-minded . let all gods people cry , how long lord ? when wilt thou come to destroy antichrists cruel kingdom , and establish christs meek and peaceable kingdom ? as thou hast begun , even come lord jesus by the spirit of thy mouth , and the brightness of thy coming , even come quickly . amen . by christs unworthy witnesses , his majesties faithful subjects : commonly ( but most falsly ) called ana-baptists . persecution for religion judg'd and condemn'd : in a discourse between an antichristian & a christian . antichristian . vvhy come you not to church ? christian . vvhat should i do there ? antich . worship god. chr. i must worship god as he requireth , and not as any mortal man requireth . ant. true , but the worship that we require you to offer up , is the worship god requireth . ch. if it be so , i will with all willingness assent unto it ; but my conscience must be satisfied thereof by the word of truth , that i may have faith in it , otherwise it is my grievous sin , rom. . . for i may not believe it so to be , because you affirm it . ant. well , you must go to church , otherwise you are disobedient to the law , and will fall under punishment . ch. but still remember that you would have me worship god as you pretend , therefore let us agree what worship god requireth : christ saith , joh. . . god is a spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in spirit and truth . here we see what worship god requireth , viz. that we worship him with our souls and spirits , and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word : and therefore for your book-worship , if it were according to truth , ( from the which it is as far as light is from darkness ) yet if i cannot offer it up with my spirit , it is not acceptable to god , but most abominable . ant. well , you must come to church . ch. i pray let me ask you a question , do you seek the glory of god , and the salvation of my soul herein , or your own obedience ? ant. i seek the glory of god , and the salvation of your soul , and not my own obedience . ch. then manifest it not by words only , but by deeds and truth ; which if you do , you will not threaten me with punishment to cause me to come , but with meekness and patience satisfie my conscience by the word of truth , ( for this is the duty of the minister of christ , tim. . . ) that i may come with a willing mind , so shall i be accepted , cor. . . psal . . . for if by threatning me with punishment , as imprisonment , banishment , or death , you cause me to bring my body , and not my spirit or soul , so shall i come near to the lord with my lips , when my heart shall be far from him , which he accounteth vain worship and hypocrisie , mat. . ant. i perceive what you aim at , you would have none brought to church , but such as come willingly of themselves , so should every man worship god as himself pleaseth . ch. your conclusion i aim not at ; for i acknowledge , that as there is but one god , so there is but one way of worshipping him , out of the which way , whosoever is , and repenteth not thereof , shall pay a dear price ; and therefore it standeth all men upon , not to please themselves in worshipping of him . but you perceive aright that i aim at this , that none should be compelled to worship god , but such as come willingly ; for i will ( by gods assistance ) prove most evidently by the scriptures , that none ought , nor can be compelled to worship god to acceptance , by any worldly means whatsoever . ant. prove that . ch. well , i prove what i have affirmed , thus : first , heb. . . without faith it is impossible to please god ; and , rom . . whatsoever is not of faith , is sin . these two scriptures prove most evidently , that whatsoever i have not faith in , in worshipping god , although it were undoubtedly true , i may not offer it up to god , for it is displeasing to him , and it is a sin against him : as also it appeareth plainly by him , that came unto the kings supper , and wanted his wedding garment , matth. . ant. it is the kings law that you must go to church , and therefore you must be obedient . ch. the intent of the kings law is not so , as appeareth both by the statute for the oath of allegiance , and also by his majesties own words , manifested in his apologie for the oath of allegiance , as is hereafter more fully declared . for , if the intent of the law were to make me come to church to worship god , and not of faith , the intent of the law were to compel me to sin , which his majesty requireth not . ant. i deny not but whatsoever is not of faith is sin ; but we would have you come to church to worship god in faith. ch. it is not so : you regard not whether i have faith or no ; for if you did , you would not urge the kings law against me , which is but a carnal weapon , and cannot beget faith , and therefore is no sure ground of faith. for , in my obedience to god , i must not presume above that that is written , cor. . . for , the word of god is the only ground of faith , rom. . . and therefore if you would have me come in faith , you would only urge the law of the king of kings against me . ant. have not all the learned of the land considered of these things , and set them down ? are such simple men as you likely to see more than all these ? ch. i demand of you whether they be not all subject to erre , as all men are ; and therefore i must try their spirits , whether they erre or no , joh. . . for i may not hold , either that they cannot erre , or that if i find them to erre , i must obey them notwithstanding ; do you not herein teach me that popish and accursed doctrine , that you inveigh so much against in the papists , that i must believe as the learned of the land believe ? ant. i do not hold that they cannot erre . ch. yes , you hold either that they cannot erre , or , if they do erre , i must obey them ; for , if i do not obey them , you threaten me with punishment . ant. nay , but i hold , that they being learned do not erre , and therefore you must obey them . ch. then this is your argument , the learned do not erre , and therefore must be obeyed . the bishops and the rest of that rank are learned , and do not erre , and therefore they must be obeyed . another argument as vain as they may be collected from this ground : the learned do not erre , and therefore must be obeyed . the pope and the rest of that rank are learned , ( yea , as learned as yours ) and do not erre , and therefore they must be obeyed . the one is as true as the other , but both abominable . if you prove , that they that want this learning , must not meddle with the wayes of god but as these learned men teach them , then indeed you say something ; but if you cannot , as most certain it is you cannot , ( for the word of god is against you herein ) then for shame to god and men leave oft your cruel persecuting ; for why do you persecute men that cannot in faith submit to your direction concerning the wayes of god , upon which consisteth their salvation , if they walk in the true way of faith with the love thereof , and their condemnation if they walk in a by-path ? ant. then i perceive if a man can plead that he hath not faith in any thing which the king commands , he need not to be obedient . ch. would god all men could see your dealing herein . this is your usual course when your mouth is stopped by the power of gods word that you know not what to answer , then you run to the kings command , and so make your matters good , like unto your predecessors the wicked scribes and pharisees , who when our lord and master had stopped their mouthes that they had no word of answer , then they sought to make him a trespasser against caesar ; but i have learned in some weak measure , that as there is a caesar unto whom in conscience i must be obedient , so there is another king , one jesus , that is king of kings ; unto whom if you will not be obedient , in giving unto god that which is gods , he will tear you in pieces , when there shall be none that can deliver you , and cast you into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone for evermore , where there shall be no rest day nor night ; and therefore agree with this your adversary quickly , whilst you are in the way with him . the power and authority of the king is earthly , and god hath commanded me to submit to every ordinance of man , pet. . , . and therefore i have faith to submit to what ordinance of man soever the king commands , if it be an humane ordinance , and not against the manifest word of god , let him require what he will , i must in conscience obey him , with my body , goods , and all that i have : but my soul , wherewith i am to worship god , that belongeth to another king , whose kingdom is not of this world , joh. . . whose people must come willingly , psal . . . whose weapons are not carnal , but spiritual , cor. . , &c. ant. is this all the authority that you will give to the king ? ch. vvhat authority can any mortal man require more , than of body , goods , life , and all that appertaineth to the outward man ? the heart god requireth , prov. . . he commanded to give unto caesar the things that are caesars , and to himself the things that are his , luk. . . now if all the outward man be caesars , and the inward man too , so that he must be obeyed is his own matters , and in god's matters also , then tell us what shall be given to god ? if you , or any man , will give him more power or authority than i give him , then you give him more than his majesty requireth , as shall be shewed . ant. we do not say that the king can compel the soul , but only the outward man. ch. if he cannot compel my soul , he cannot compel me to worship god , for god cannot be worshipped without the soul , joh. . . if you say he may compel me to offer up a worship only with my body , ( for the spirit you confess he cannot compel ) to whom is that worship ? not to god. then consider you who they worship that are thus compelled , ( say you by the king. ) let it well be here observed , that you make the king a commander of such worship as is not to god , contrary to his majesties own mind , manifest in his writings . but this you do , not to advance gods glory , nor the kings honour , but your own cursed kingdom of darkness , which you hold by flattery and falshood . for , if this compelled worship ( which is not to god ) were taken away , then your kingdom would fall to hell , from whence it came ; and therefore all men may here see it is supported only by wickedness . ant. i confess the kings authority is earthly , but he is head over the church under christ . ch. god forbid that any mortal man should so equalize himself with christ , who alone is head of his church , as the husband is of the wife , eph. . . and hath left no vice-gerent in that his office , for he is never absent from his church , mat. . amd . . all that any mortal man can be , is to be a subject of his kingdom ; for there is but one lord , cor. . . and one law-giver , jam. . . and that this is so , his majesty confirmeth by his own testimony , in his apology for the oath of allegiance , pag. , . but as i well allow of the hyrarchy of the church for distinction of orders , ( for so i understand it ) so i utterly deny that there is any earthly monarch thereof , whose word must be a law , and who cannot erre in his sentence by an infallibility of spirit : because earthly kingdoms must have earthly monarchs , it doth not follow that the church must have a visible monarch top : for the world hath not one earthly temporal monarch ; christ is his churches monarch , and the holy ghost his deputy . the kings of the gentiles reign over them , but ye shall not be so , luk. . . christ did not promise before his ascension to leave peter with them , to direct and instruct them in all things ; but he promised to send the holy ghost unto them for that end . these are his highness own words , whereby it evidently appeareth his majesty challengeth no supremacy over the church , but laboureth to overthrow that abominable exaltation of that man of sin in the romish profession ; for christ hath given no supremacy in , or over his church to any mortal man , but expresly commanded the contrary , as that place of luke , mentioned by his majesty , plainly declareth . his highness is supream head and governour over all his subjects bodies and goods within his dominions , and therein i detest and abhor all forreign powers whatsoever . but now for the thing in controversie betwixt you and me , of compelling men by persecutions to do service to god ( as is pretended ) wherein they have not faith : it shall be manifest not to be of god , in that christ jesus himself , the only lord and law-giver to the soul , neither had any such power and authority , neither taught any such thing to his disciples , but the contrary . first , mat. . , . all power is given me in heaven and in earth ; go therefore and teach all nations . and cor. . . the weapons of our warfare are not carnal , but mighty through god , to cast down strong holds , &c. here we see christ hath no worldly power , nor worldly weapons . secondly , he practised and taught the contrary . when the samaritans would not receive him going to jerusalem , luke . his disciples would have had fire come down from heaven and devoured them , but christ rebuked them , and said , ye know not of what spirit ye are of : for the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . and the apostle by the spirit of christ , tim. . . commandeth the servants of the lord , not to strive ; but to be gentle towards all men , apt to teach , suffering the evil-men patiently ; instructing them with meekness that are contrary-minded ; proving , if god at any time will give them repentance , that they may know the truth , and come to amendment out of the devils snare , &c. these scriptures need no explanation for this most evident truth . ant. well , yet notwithstanding all this , it is manifest in the scriptures , by the example of the apostle peter smiting ananias and saphira to death , act. . and of the apostle paul striking elymas the sorcerer blind , act. . . and also by delivering hymeneus and alexander unto satan for the destruction of the flesh ; that punishment upon the body may be used , and the flesh destroyed : for if it were lawful for them to smite to death , and the like , though by extraordinary means , then it must be lawful for us by ordinary means , since extraordinary means now fail : if you say it be not lawful for us , then you must say it was not lawful for them , and that were to accuse them of laying a false foundation , which none fearing god will affirm . ch. i dare not once admit of such a thought , as to disallow the truth of that foundation which the apostles , as skilfull master-builders , have laid : but for your argument of peters extraordinary smiting of ananias and saphira , he neither laid hand upon them , nor threatned them by word , only declared what should befall them from god ; and therefore serveth nothing to your purpose . also that of paul to elymas , he laid no hands upon him , but only declared the lords hand upon him , and the judgment that should follow . if you can so pronounce , and it so come to pass upon any , do it , and then it may be you may be accounted master-builders , and layers of a new foundation , or another gospel . and for the apostle paul his delivering hymeneus and alexander unto satan , tim. . . it was not by any temporal sword or power , but even by the power of our lord jesus christ , in his name , by the sword of the spirit , cor. . . and this was not extraordinary , but ordinary , to continue in all churches to the end ; and not to destroy the outward man , as you teach and practise , but to destroy those lustful affections which dwell in the flesh , that so the flesh being mortified , the spirit may be quickned , and the soul saved in the day of the lord jesus . and whereas you say , that as they did it by extraordinary means so you may do it by ordirary means : if you would use only those weapons which christ commanded his disciples to use in this business , which are not carnal , we would agree with you herein ; but if your ordinary means be such as christ never had , nor any of his disciples , then it is a means of your own devising , for christ hath all means whatsoever for bringing men to the obedience of the truth . ant. doth not christ in the parable teach , that he compelled all to come in ? ch. i demand of you , wherewith doth he compel them ? he hath no carnal weapons : doth he not compel them by his word , which is his two-edged sword ? heb. . . rev. . . doth he smite the earth with any other weapons than by the breath of his lips ? isa . . ant. well then , you see then compulsion may be used . ch. yes , i confess to you such compulsion as much as you will , if when you have done you will walk in his steps , who when the gaderens prayed him to depart , he left them , and taught his disciples where they should preach the word of god , if they would not receive them , that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witness against them , mat. . . which accordingly they practised , act. . . and . . &c. he never taught them to pull the contrary-minded out of their houses , and put them in prisons , to the undoing of them , their wives and children : this was saul's course when he was a blasphemer and persecutor , &c. act. . , &c. christ taught his disciples to wait if at any time god would give the contrary-minded repentance , and not to prevent their repentance by seeking their blood . indifferent man. i have heard you all this while , and by that i have heard , i see evidently that none ought to be compelled by any worldly means to worship god , neither can any be accepted in such worship , in that it is spiritual worship that he accepteth . ch. blessed be the lord that you see it , i would not you only , but all men did see that the sword of the magistrate , and all afflictions proceeding therefrom , are only upon the outward man , and connot convert a soul from going astray , not beget faith ; for , faith comes by hearing the word of god , rom. . . and therefore is no instrument in this work . all that the magistrate can do , is to compel me to bring my body ; for , except there be a willing mind , which no man can see , there is no acceptance with god ; and therefore it is not gods glory , nor my acceptance with him they seek by forcing me , but meerly their own obedience , to god's great dishonour , and the destruction of my soul , if i should so do . but if it would suffice them to bring my body to that they call their church , and require of me no worship : i will go when they will , only not when their false worship is performed . for i abhor the accursed doctrine of the familists herein . indif . it is a lamentable thing to consider how many thousands in this nation there be , that for fear of trouble submit to things in religion which they disapprove of . ch. oh! whose eyes do not gush out with tears in the confideration thereof ? seeing in all that god is highly displeased and all those are under the judgments of god everlastingly , if they repent not . ant. if it were as you would have it , that all religions should be suffered , how dangerous would it be to the kings person and state ? what treacheries and treasons would be plotted ? indif . indeed that is a thing greatly to be suspected : but if permission of all religions could be cleared in that , there is no question but it might prevail with the king and state. ch. if it be not cleared of that , then let all men abhor it . it is the commandment of him , who is the god , not of confusion , but of peace and order , and therefore to be obeyed , mat. . . let the good and bad grow together unto the end of the world ; suffering the contrary-minded patiently , proving , if god at any time will give them repentance that they may acknowledge the truth , &c. first , for all those that seek and practise in themselves reformation in religion , satan himself cannot task them with the least jot of treachery : and for the papists , may it not justly be suspected that one chief cause of all their treasons hath been because of all the compulsions that have been used against their consciences , in compelling them to the worship practised in publick , according to the law of this land ; which being taken away , there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable ; as we see it verified in divers other nations , where no such compulsion is used : for , if they might have freedom in their religion , unto their faithful allegiance to the king , the fear of the kings laws , and their own prosperity and peace , would make them live more inoffensively in that respect . indif . only the papists are dangerous , in that some of them hold , that the kings and princes that be excommunicated by the pope , may be deposed or murdered by their subjects , or any other . ch. for that damnable and accursed doctrine , as we abhor it with our souls , so we desire all other may : and therefore all the laws that can be made for the prevention of such execrable practices are most necessary . but now i desire all men to see , that the bishops and we justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the pope and his associates , that princes should be murdered by their subjects for contrary-mindedness in religion , yet they teach the king to murder his subjects for the self-same thing , viz. for being contrary-minded to them in their religion . so likewise , as that accursed doctrine is to be abhorred in the papists , who teach subjects not to be obedient to their princes that are excommunicated by the pope : even so is that accursed doctrine of the bishops to be abhorred , who teach princes not to protect their subjects that are excommunicated by them , in not affording them either law or justice , nor to bear testimony in any court , do not the bishops herein justifie this accursed doctrine and practice in the papists ? ant. there is a great difference in the persons , for the one are princes , the other subjects ; and subjects must be obedient . ch. most true it is ; but is it not also true , that princes must afford all their subjects justice and equity , although they be as heathens and publicans ? for , if princes be freed from doing right and justice , and protecting their subjects that be excommunicated , why are not subjects also freed from subjection and allegiance to their princes , being excommunicated , if excommunication be christ's law to all alike that will be saved , without respect of persons . and also , is not that law of christ herein to be observed , that whatsoevr ye would men should do unto you , even so do ye unto them , mat. . . and therefore , as princes would that all their subjects should be faithfull and obedient unto them ; so ought princes to be just and equal to all their subjects , in maintaining them in every just and equal cause between man and man : for , for this cause ( not for religion ) saith the apostle , the saints at rome payed tribute to caesar their heathen prince , who was against them in religion . shall they not escape damnation for this accursed doctrine and practice , and think ye you shall ? thou that judgest another , judgest thou not thy self ? by this it may appear , as also by exceeding many other doctrines and practices , how near you are to that bloody spiritual power , what pretences to the contrary soever you make . ant. it were a lamentable thing if that bloody religion should be practised again in this nation . ch. i acknowledge it a bloody religion , but god hath cast down the power thereof in this kingdom , blessed be his name : but i would you could see your own cruel bloody religion ; but that god of his mercy hath restrained it by the kings majesty ( who thirsteth not after blood ) how many , only for seeking reformation in religion , have been put to death by your power in the dayes of qu. elizabeth ? and how many , both then and since , have been consumed to death in prisons ? yea , since that cruel spiritual power hath been set up , hath not hanging , burning , exile , imprisonments , and all manner of contempt been used , and all for religion ? ( although some for grievous errours ) and yet you see not this to be a bloody religion . further , you cry out of their bloody cruelty ; the reason is , because you will not be of their religion ; and when you have done , your selves are most bloody and cruel ( so far as is in your power ) because we , and all men will not not be of your religion . ant. if men hold errors , and will not obey the truth , do they not sin against god , and deserve punishment ? ch. yes , such deserve punishment , but god hath appointed their punishment , and the time thereof . their punishment , rom. . , . to them that are contentions , and disobey the truth , and obey unrighteousness , shall be indignation and wrath , tribulation and anguish shall be upon the soul of every one that doth evil , mark . . he that will not believe , shall be damned , thes . . . in flaming fire , rendring vengeance unto them that know not god , and obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ ; which shall be punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the lord , and the glory of his power . the time thereof is mentioned in the last recited place , ver . . when the lord jesus shall shew himself from heaven with his mighty angels . and rom. . . the day of wrath. and ver . . at that day when god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ . and mat. . , . at the end of this world the son of man shall send forth his angels , and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend , and them that do iniquity , and shall cast them into a furnace of fire , &c. here is shewed the punisher , the punishment , and the time thereof . this punisher hath commanded you to wait for their repentance ( by his own example ) which is in his hands to give them ; and not to cut them off , and send them to hell , as you teach and practise , which is contrary to god , who is patient towards mockers , which walk after their own lusts , pet. . . because he would have no man to perish , but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance . but you ( contrary to him ) use all means you can to cut men off that they might perish , in that you seek to destroy their bodies whilst they remain in their errors . ant. i confess that god commandeth ( matth. . ) that the good and bad must grow together unto the end of the world , but that is in the church . ch. well , if that be the true exposition , i pray you why do you then excommunicate any out of your church , contrary to your own acknowledgment ? and here let all men take notice , that by this exposition you overthrow your own excommunication quite , and accuse christ for giving a rule , mat. . and the apostle paul , and the church of corinth for practising that rule , cor. . in casting out of the church : for you say , all must grow together to the end in the church : but the exposition of the law-giver himself is against you , that the field is the world , ver . . yet in that you confess that the wicked and the godly must be let alone in the church unto the end , then much more in the world unto the end : for , if the wicked pollute not the church , sure , it is they pollute not the world. this then you are commanded unto ver . , . nay , gather them not , let them grow together unto the end of the world. ant. let them come to church , and they shall grow together unto the end . ch. indeed i think so . hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and ungodly men be ; so they come to your church , you will not destroy them , though they remain in their abominable lusts : but if they will not come to your church , let them be wheat or tares , you will gather them , and ( as much as in you is ) send them to burning . herein all men may see , as i said before , that you seek your own glory and obedience , and not gods , and so exalt your selves above god , thess . . indif . well , i bless god , i see this as clearly as the sun shining in his brightness , that it is to fight against god to compel any , contrary to their consciences , to perform any service unto him , in that there are so many places of scripture commanding the contrary . ch. the whole new testament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of christ and his disciples , teach no such thing as compelling men by persecutions and afflictions to obey the gospel , but the direct contrary , viz. to suffer at the hands of the wicked ; when they were persecuted for righteousness sake , to suffer it ; when the unbelievers and wicked curse them , to bless , and pray for their repentance , and that god would forgive them , and never lay these sins to their charge , as our saviour , luke . . stephen , act. . . and the rest did . and for a conclusion of this point , that your faith may be full herein , consider , that we are to wait for the jews conversion , and not to destroy them . indif . it is true , that might give all men satisfaction in these things . ch. oh yes , if men had any regard of god or his word , they would never deal more in this thing : the lord , we see , rom. . hath promised , that when the fulness of the gentiles is come in , the jews shall be converted . now if the jews , who are such fearful blasphemers of christ and his gospel , that contemn him and his testament with all despite , if their conversion must be waited for , that they may not be destroyed from off the face of the earth , then who may not see ( if they shut not their eyes ) that the conversion of all is to be waited for ? and , that no man for blaspheming christ and his gospel may be destroyed , or afflicted by imprisonments , death , or any calamity whatsoever . indif . it is not to be gain-sayed with any shew of truth . i would god the kings majesty would consider of this point , seeing that the cruel bishops , by using his power , commit such sin against god in this thing , both in persecuting them that cannot in faith yeeld , and also in forcing them that do yeeld , contrary to their consciences , to sin against god , and to perish , if they repent not . ch. i am perswaded , that if his highness did but once well weigh and consider it , he would never suffer such high iniquity to be committed against god , contrary to his express commandment , and all to be done by the king's power , for nothing have they else to bear them out . the lord perswade the hearts of his majesty and his posterity unto it , seeing his throne is established by him , that he and his posterity may sit and reign over these nations and kingdoms , till jesus christ the commander of these things , come in his glory to recompence every man according to his works , without respect of persons . ant. if wicked malefactors should be let alone to the end of the world , then where is the magistrates sword ? it is of no force if evil men may not be cut off . ch. i acknowledge unfeignedly , that god hath given to magistrates a sword to cut off wicked men , and to reward the well-doers , rom. . but this ministry is a worldly ministry , their sword is a worldly sword , their punishments can extend no further than the outward man ; they can but kill the body , luke . . and therefore this ministry and sword is appointed only to punish the breach of worldly ordinances , which is all that god hath given to any mortal man to punish . the king may make laws for the safety and good of his person , state , and subjects , against the which whosoever is disloyal or disobedient , he may dispose of them at his pleasure ; the lord hath given him this sword and authority , fore-seeing in his eternal wisdom , that if this his ordinance of magistracy were not , there would be no living for men in the world , and especially for the godly ; and therefore the godly have particular cause to glorifie god for this his blessed ordinance of magistracy , and to regard it with all reverence , but now , the breach of christs laws , of the which we all this while speak , which is the thing only i stand upon ; his kingdom is spiritual , his laws spiritual , the transgressions spiritual , the punishment spiritual ; everlasting death of soul ; his sword spiritual : no carnal or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdom , nor to punish the transgressors of the laws of this kingdom : the law-giver himself hath commanded that the transgressors of these laws should be let alone until the harvest ; because he knows , they that are now tares , may hereafter come to repentance , and become wheat : they that are now blasphemers , persecutors and oppressors , as paul was , may by the power of gods word become faithful , and a faithful witness , as he was : they that are now fornicators , &c. as some of the corinthians once were , cor. . . may hereafter become washed , clensed , and sanctified , as they were : they that are now no people , nor under mercy , as the saints sometimes were , pet. . . may hereafter become the people of god , and obtain mercy , as they did : all come not at the first hour , some come not till the eleventh hour ; if those that come not till the last hour should be destroyed , because they came not at the first hour , then should they never come , but be prevented . ant. were not blasphemers put to death in time of the law ? lev. . , &c. ch. yes , an israelite blaspheming the lord , or doing any thing presumptuously , which was blasphemy , numb . . . no sacrifice was to be offered for him : but would you from hence have the kings majesty put all his subjects to death that contemn the truth of christ ? if yea , see what will follow . all papists ought to be put to death , who are direct blasphemers , rev. . , . when the vial of gods wrath was poured upon the throne of the beast , ( which all england confess is meant the popish power ) they blasphemed the god of heaven , &c. all the jews , that speak many things blasphemously against christ , ought to be put to death : yea , of what profession soever he be , doing any thing presumptuously against christ , ought to be put to death by your affirmation ; no sacrifice to be offered , no repentance to be admitted , dye he must under two or three witnesses . but that this is most false , christ and his apostles in his testament do manifestly declare , as is before shewed . was not paul a blasphemer ? yet received to mercy . but this the holy ghost teacheth from blasphemy under the law , heb. . . he that despised moses law , died without mercy , under two or three witnesses : of how much sorer punishment suppose ye , shall he be thought worthy , that treadeth under foot the son of god , and counteth the blood of the testament as an unholy thing , wherewith he was sanctified , and doth despite to the spirit of grace ? speaking of such as had received and acknowledged the truth , ver . . this is now the due proportion , an israelite according to the flesh , in the time of the law presumptuously sinning against gods commandment , by his command must die by the worldly sword , no sacrifice was to be offered for him : so in the new testament , or time of the gospel , a spiritual israelite according to the faith , contemptuously or despitefully sinning against christs commands , which he hath formerly acknowledged , despiting and contemning them , by his command must die by the spiritual sword , no repentance to be admitted , seeing he crucifieth again to himself the son of god , and makes a mock of him , heb. . . david and peter came not within this compass ; though they sinned of knowledge , yet they did it not contemptuously or despitefully , but through frailty . if an israelite under the law did ought through ignorance , as numb . . or through frailty , as levit. . there was sacrifice for him : so under the gospel , an israelite doing ought through ignorance , or through frailty , as peter and barnabas , with the rest of the jews , mentioned gal. . or the incestuous person , cor. . there is repentance for him . this is it that confounds all true religion ; that because it was so in the time of the law , therefore it may be so in the time of the gospel : by which reason men might set up as truly the whole law , as some part , and utterly abolish christ . i pray you seriously consider what is here said . ant. hath not the king the same power that the kings of israel had , who compelled men to the observation of the law of god ? ch. first , i answer you : that the kings of israel had never power from god to set up any thing in or for the the service of god , but that only which was commanded by god , deut. . . no , not so much as the manner of any law , numb . . . and . . and therefore this will not serve your purpose , that kings may set up within their dominions such spiritual lords and laws for the serving of god ; no , nor the manner thereof , as may best please themselves , under what pretence soever ; thereby making god for his worship subject to their pleasures . and his majesty acknowledgeth that christs church after the establishing of it by miracles in the primitive time , was ever after to be governed within the limits of his revealed will. speech at parliam . anno . secondly , the kings of israel might compel men to the sacrifices and ordinances of the old testament , all which were carnal , and purged not the conscience , heb. . , . as circumcision , the passeover , &c. but no mortal man , whatsoever he be , can compel any man to offer the sacrifices of the new testament , which are spiritual , and purge the conscience , except he can beget faith in him , and convert his soul . the ordinances of the old testament were to be performed by the posterity of abraham according to the flesh , that thereby they might be taught christ : but the ordinances of the new testament are to be performed only by the posterity of abraham according to faith , that have learned christ , and have put on christ , and so having him , all things else appertain unto them . but one thing i demand of you , who now is king of israel ? ant. i confess christ is king of israel . ch. yes , christ alone is king of israel , that sits upon davids throne , and therefore mark the true proportion : in the time of the old testament the kings of israel had power from god to compel all to the ordinances of god , or to cut them off by their sword from the earthly land of canaan , and the promises thereof : so in the new testament the king of israel , christ jesus , hath power from the father to compel all to the ordinances of god , or to cut them off by his sword from the heavenly land of canaan , and the promises thereof . the kings of israel only had this power under the law , and the king of israel only hath this power under the gospel : and therefore whosoever will challenge this power under the gospel , he must be the king of israel in the time of the gospel , which is peculiar only to jesus christ , unto whom all power in heaven and earth is given . and let it be here well observed , that by this opinion of yours you make the kingdom and ordinances of israel under the law , and the kingdom & ordinances of israel under the gospel all one ; directly contrary to the whole scripture : for the kingdom and ordinances of israel under the law were of this world , but the kingdom and ordinances of israel under the gospel are not of this world , as christ the king thereof himself testifieth , john . and therefore you setting up a worldly king over this heavenly kingdom and ordinances , you and all of your profession declare your selves to be of that worldly kingdom , and so to look for that heavenly and spiritual king yet to come in the flesh ; being of the number of those that deny him to be come in the flesh , and so are deceivers and antichrists , whatsoever you say to the contrary . ant. well , yet i cannot see , but that as the kings of israel had power from god to compel all their subjects to the worship then appointed ; so the king , being a christian king , hath power to compel his subjects to the worship now appointed . ch. you may see , if you shut not your eyes , that what power the kings of israel had under the law in matters of religion , christ jesus the king of israel hath under the gospel : but i pray let me ask you this question , you say the kings majesty hath this power as he is a christian king : my question is , whether it appertain unto him as he is a king , or as he is a christian ? ant. neither simply as he is a king , nor as he is a christian , but joyntly as he is compleat in them both : for i grant that no heathen king hath power to compel in matters of religion , but a christian king hath . ch. then you confess that if a christian king may be deprived of his christianity , ( for of his kingdom or kingly power , or any part thereof , i affirm he may not be deprived ) he hath lost this power you plead for , in compelling men in matters of religion : what say you to this ? ant. i confess if he may be deprived of his christianity , he hath not this power i plead for . ch. then i demand this question , whether every christian , without respect of persons , ought not to be subject to christs laws for his salvation ? ant. yes , it cannot be denyed . ch. christ hath given his censure , excommunication , for the salvation of every christian , that he that will not hear the church , is to be as a heathen and a publican ; that is , hath lost all right and title in christ , and in his church , till he repent . now i know it cannot be denyed , but every christian whatsoever is subject to sin , and so to excommunication , to be as an heathen , &c. if you say , that kings either are not subject to sin , and to impenitency therein , and so not to this censure of christ , of excommunication for their impenitent sin ; then consider what you make them , and god you make a lyer . if you grant ( as you cannot deny ) that kings as well as others , are subject to impenitent sin , and so to excommunication for the same ; then they being deprived of their christianity , by your own confession , they are deprived of power to compel in matters of religion , the which , if it were any part of their kingly power , they might be deprived of a part of their kingly power by being excommunicated . consider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein . ant. doth not the prophet say , that kings shall be nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers to the church ? and also it is said , that kings shall hate the whore , make her desolate , eat her flesh , and burn it with fire . where we see , that kings that have power and authority , shall destroy antichrists kingdom , and nourish and cherish christs kingdom . ch. most true it is , the lord hath spoken it , and therefore it ought to be a great comfort to gods people : but what is this to the purpose in hand , namely , that kings may persecute the contrary-minded . the words of the prophet isaiah prove , that kings and queens that have formerly persecuted and destroyed the church , their hearts shall be turned by the power of gods word , to be lovers and preservers of the church . and the other place , rev. . . proves , that kings shall make that whore desolate , &c. not by their temporal authority or sword ( as some say , that make more shew of religion than you do , although themselves be now persecuted , yet , if kings were of their minds , would be as cruel as you , for they maintain the same thing ) but by the spirit of the lords mouth , and the brightness of his coming , thess . . . for this kingdom of antichrist shall be destroyed without hand , dan. . . only by the everlasting gospel , the true armour indeed , wherewith the witnesses fight against the antichrist . as the kings majesty , acknowledgeth , apol. pag. . ant. you are so stiff against using of outward weapons in church matters , did not our saviour make a whip of small cords , and whip the buyers and sellers out of the temple ? and why may not we follow his example ? ch. in this and many other actions of christ our saviour , we are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law ; as in the action of the passover , and sending him that was clensed of his leprosie , to offer to the priest the gift that moses commanded ; in which things we are not to imitate him ; for by him the ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished , and the everlasting gospel established , in the which we are to walk : and it were more than foolish to reason thus : christ whipped wicked men out of gods temple made with hands , with whips made of cord ; therfore we may whip wicked men out of gods temple made without hands , with whips made of cord . there is a wholsom doctrine to be collected from the type to the truth , as thus : christ drove out wicked men out of the temple made with hands , by a carnal or worldly whip ; so christ ( by his people ) must drive wicked men out of the temple made without hands , by a spiritual whip , even his word , which is called a whip or rod. rev. . and psal . . . so is excommunication , cor. . . ant. if freedom of religion should be granted , there would be such divisions as would breed sedition and innovasion in the state. ch. thus when your shews out of the scripture are answered , then you run to conceits and imaginations , of sedition , innovasion , and the like , thinking thereby to disswade princes , and all that are in authority therefrom , knowing else your kingdom of iniquity would fall . but that it may appear to all that you deal deceitfully herein , let us consider first the scriptures ; secondly , behold the success , of suffering of religion free in other countries . and first , christ our saviour ( who is that prince of peace , isa . . . not of sedition ) hath taught , mat. , and luk. . that he came not to send peace on the earth , but debate ; to divide five in one house , two against three , and three against two ; the father against the son , &c. and a mans enemies shall be they of his own houshold : and his desire is , that the fire of such sedition should be kindled . where we see , this prince of peace putteth difference in religion by preaching his gospel , which some receive as the savour of life unto them ; others refuse it , and so become enemies unto the truth , and witnesses thereof , as they did to christ jesus himself and his disciples , and as you do to me and others . secondly , behold the nations where freedom of religion is permitted , and you may see there are not more flourishing and prosperous nations under the heavens than they are . indif . the convocation of bishops , and the rest , have made a canon , that whosoever shall affirm that the kings majesty hath not the same power in causes ecclesiastical under the gospel , that the godly kings of israel had under the law , let him be excommunicated , ipso facto . ch. yes , they have so . in the beginning of his majesties reign , when they had gotten him sure unto them , of the which they so much doubted , as with my own ears i heard some of their chief followers say , when his highness was coming into england : now must steeples down , and we shall have no more high commission ! ( with a lamentation they spake it ) then they made this canon ; because their consciences are convinced , that they stand only by his power , and if his hand be turned , their spiritual power of darkness falleth to the pit of darkness , from whence it came , and whither it must go , though there be never so much means used for the supporting of it ; for the strong lord hath spoken it , revel . . as for their sending men to hell ( as they suppose ) with their ipso facto excommunications ; if they had no stronger weapons for the supportting of their kingdom , it would stand but a short space . if israel now were of this world , as it was under the law , then they said something ; but if it be not of this world , as it is not , john . . then the king of israel is not of this world ; for when this king came , the worldly israel knew him not . indif . i see evidently , that all are but cavels , and that no mortal man can make any man offer sacrifices under the new testament , until he be a believer and converted ; for he must be in christ before he may offer sacrifices ; for in christ only the father accepteth us . but what say you , have they not power to compel men to come to the place where the word is publickly taught , that they may be converted ? ch. well , then you see that the example of the kings of israel ( who had power to compel them to sacrifice , or to cut them off ) applyed to earthly princes , is gone , as a meer doctrine of man , and not of god. and for compelling men to hear , that they may be converted ; we can learn of no better than of him , who if we hear not we shall have a dreadfull recompence . he had all power in heaven and in earth for converting souls given unto him , and sent his disciples , as his father sent him , joh. . . charging them that when they should come into a city , &c. if they would not receive them nor their word , to shake off the dust of their feet for a witness against them , saying , it should be easier for sodom and gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city or house . and so the apostles went from city to city accordingly . here were no temples made with hands , nor worldly power to compel all to come unto them to hear the word of the lord , but they were commanded to go from city to city , and from house to house . indif . in those dayes the magistrates were vnbelievers , but the question is where magistrates are believers . ch. christ had all power needful for that work : if magistracy were a power needful for that work , then christ had not all power ; magistracy is gods blessed ordinance in its right place , but let not us be wiser than god to devise him a means for the publishing of his gospel , which he that had all power had not , nor hath commanded . magistracy is a power of this world ; the kingdom , power , subjects and means of publishing the gospel are not of this world . ant. a goodly thing indeed that men must go about the country to preach . ch. in your estimation it is base and contemptible ; your pomp and pride will not bear this ; it is more easie for you to hunt after promotion till you come to the highest , in getting to be chief bishop of bishops within these dominions , and then cometh your fall , full low , if you repent not : but the wisdom of god hath appointed the chiefest officers of christs kingdom , even the apostles , thus basely to go up and down to and fro to preach the gospel ; yea , that worthy apostle paul preached this gospel night and day with many tears openly and throughout every house , act. . indif . but if this be thus , as for my own part i am fully perswaded it is , then i see the high commission cannot stand ; for , as i take it , it is only for causes ecclesiastical . ch. so far as it is over church-matters , it is most unlawful : for the commission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the laws of christs church is given to christ the monarch thereof , a part whereof he hath left to his disciples , which is no worldly commission or power , but only the power of the lord jesus , the uttermost of which commission is excommunication , cor. . ant. the high commission is from the king , and dare you once call it into question ? ch. if i do take any authority from the kings majesty , let me be judged worthy my desert ; but if i defend the authority of christ jesus over mens souls , which appertaineth to no mortal man whatsoever , then know you , that whosoever would rob him of that honour , which is not of this world , he will tread them under foot : earthly authority belongeth to earthly kings , but spiritual authority belongeth to that one spiritual king , who is king of kings . ant. well , all your pleading will not serve your turn , either you must come to church , or else go to prison . ch. i have shewed you by the law of christ that your course is most wicked , to compel any by persecution to perform any service to god ( as you pretend . ) now i desire also to shew you , that the statute law of the land requireth only civil obedience , and his majesties writings , maintaining the oath of allegiance , testifie the same . the law of the land requireth , that whosoever cometh not to church , or receiveth not the sacraments , the oath of allegiance is to be tendred to them , which , that it may be manifest to all , that not only i , but all that profess the faith with me , are most willing to subscribe unto it in faithfulness and truth , i have thought good to express it . the words of the oath , anno , jacobi regis . i a. b , do truly and sincerely acknowledge , profess and testifie , and declare in my conscience before god and the world , that our sovereign lord king james is lawful king of this realm , and of all other his majesties dominions and countries ; and than the pope neither of himself , nor by any other authority of the church or sea of rome , or by any other means with any other , hath any power or authority to depose the king , or to dispose of any his majesties kingdoms or dominions , or to authorize any forreign prince to invade or annoy him or his countries , or to discharge any of his subjects of their allegiance and obedience to his majesty ; or to give licence or leave to any of them to bear arms , raise tumults , or to offer any violonce or hurt to his majesties royal person , state or government , or any of his majesties subjects within his majesties dominions . also i do swear from my heart , that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence of excommunication , or deprivation made or granted , or to be made or granted by the pope or his successors , or by any authority derived , or pretended to be derived from him or his sea , against the said king , his heirs or successors , or any absolution of the said subjects from their obedience , i will bear faith and true allegiance to his majesty , his heirs and successors , and him and them will defend to the uttermost of my power against all conspiracies and attempts whatsoever which shall be made against his or their persons , their crown and dignity , by reason or colour of any such sentence or declaration or otherwise , and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make known unto his majesty , his heirs and successors , all treasons and traiterous conspiracies , which i shall know or hear of , to be against him or any of them . and i do further swear , that i do from my heart abhor , detest and abjure , as impious and heretical , this damnable doctrine and position , that princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the pope , may be deposed or murdered by their subjects , or any other whatsoever . and i do believe , and in conscience am resolved , that neither the pope , nor any person whatsoever , hath power to absolve me of this oath , or any part thereof , which i acknowledge by good and full authority to be lawfully ministred to me , and do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary . and all these things i do plainly and sincerely acknowledge and swear , according to these express words by me spoken , and according to the plain and common sense and understanding of the same words , without any equivocation , or mental evasion , or secret reservation whatsoever . and i do make this recognition and acknowledgment heartily , willingly and truly , upon the true faith of a christian . so help me god. ant. this oath was intended for the papists , and not for you . ch. it is not so : for his majesty at the last session of parliam . anna , saith thus ; some doubts have been conceived anent the using of the oath of allegiance ; and that part of the act that ordains the taking thereof is thought so obscure , that no man can tell who ought to be pressed therewith , &c. and therefore if there be any scruple touching the ministring thereof , i would wish it now to be cleared , &c. and thereupon this statute was made , anno . regni regis iacobi , &c. chap. . towards the latter end . and if any person or persons whatsoever of , or above the age of eighteen years , do now stand , or at any time hereafter shall stand , and be presented , indicted , and convicted for not coming to church , or receiving the lords supper , according to the laws and statutes of this realm , before the ordinary , or any other having power to take such presentments or indictments ; or if the minister , petty constable or church-wardens , or any two of them , shall at any time hereafter complain to any justice of peace near adjoyning the place where any person complained of shall dwell , and the said justice shall find cause of suspition ; that then any one justice of peace , within whose commission or power any such person or persons shall at any time hereafter be , or to whom complaint shall be made , shall upon notice thereof require such person or persons to take the said oath . and that if any person or persons being of the age of eighteen years or above , shall refuse to take the said oath , duly tendered unto him or her , according to the true intent and meaning of this statute , that then the persons authorized by this law to give the said oath , shall and may commit the said offender to the common jayl , &c. where we see , that if any take the said oath at their first apprehension , they are not to be committed , or if they , being committed , take the said oath at the next open court , they are be set at liberty ; if they will not take the said oath , to be in a premunire , as is at large in the statute declared , and as is daily practised with papists and others . ant. the kings majesty requireth your allegiance to be testified by your coming to church . ch. i pray let me demand this question ; doth the king require my coming to church to worship and serve god , or to worship and serve the king ? if to worship and serve the king , i am ready to obey ; if to worship and serve god , which none can do but of conscience , the king himself saith he never intended to lay any thing to the charge of any for the cause of conscience ; and this coming to church being a cause of conscience , if not he , why do you lay any thing to my charge for the same ? and therefore you wrong his majesty in thus affirming ; for his highness requireth only my faithful allegiance to be testified by the aforesaid oath , and therefore hath ordained it , as i shall shew by his highness own testimony . if i should come to church , and not in conscience , but for other respects , as many papists and other hypocrites do , to god it were most abominable ; and what faithfulness can be hoped for in such towards , his majesties person and state ? can any godly wise man think that he that playeth the dissembling hypocrite with god , that he will do less with men , and will not work any villany , if it were in his power ? and therefore herein you compelling me by tyranny , to bring my body whereunto my spirit cannot be brought , you compel me to hypocrisie with god and man : for if my heart were not faithfull in sincerity to his majesties crown and dignity , as i take god to witness ( before whom i must be condemned or justified ) it is , these courses would rather harden my heart to work villany than otherwise . now for his majesties many testimonies in his writings , they are worthy to be recorded with thankfulness to the highest for guiding his heart and pen to write such things . in his apology for the oath of allegiance pag , he saith ( speaking of such papists as took the oath of allegiance ) and i gave a good proof that i intended no persecution against them for conscience cause , but only desired to be secured of them for evil obedience , which for conscience cause they were bound to perform . and pag. . ( speaking of blackwel the arch-priest ) he saith , i never intended to lay any thing to the said arch-priests charge ( as i have never done to any ) for cause of conscience . and pag. . he saith , first , for the cause of their punishment , i do constantly maintain that which i said in my apology , that no man , either in my time , or in the late queens , ever dyed here for his conscience : for , let him be never so devout a papist ; nay , though he profess the same never so constantly , his life is in no danger by the law , if he break not out into some outward act expresly against the words of the law ; or plot not some dangerous or unlawful practice or attempt , &c. where we may see in short what is the whole sum that he requireth . and in his majesties speech at the last session of parliament , anno dom. . where he saith he sheweth his subjects his heart , he saith thus ; i never found , that blood , and too much severity , did good in matters of religion : for , besides , it is a sure rule in divinity , that god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloodshed , natural reason may even perswade us , and daily experience proves it true , that when men are severely persecuted for religion , the gallantness of many mens spirits , and the wilfulness of their humours , rather than the justness of their cause makes them take a pride boldly to endure any torments , or death it self , to gain thereby the reputation of martyrdom , though but in a false shadow . a most undoubted truth ; which if be , ( as most manifest it is by the testimony of the holy ghost throughout christs testament , as before is proved ) then how cursed are all the rank of you that continually break this sure rule of god , thus confidently acknowledge by his majesty , planting your church by violence and bloodshed , forcing many thousands against their consciences to be of your church , and to receive your sacraments , by all the persecutions that would follow if they do not yeeld ; and those that fear god more than men , and dare not yeeld , casting them into noisom prisons , amongst most wicked blasphemers of god , to the wounding of their souls , dividing them from their wives , children and families , and from their callings , some an hundred miles and more , utterly consuming that substance they have , which sustaineth the blood of them , their wives and children ; seldom or never affording them release , but either by yeelding to you against their consciences , or else by consuming their bodies to death in prison , banishment , or the like , leaving them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery , by parting them and their wives , and to all manner of evil , in taking them from their callivgs , and so leaving them in continual idleness . is gods church thus planted ? or , do christs disciples thus plant ? indif . oh i see this spiritual power is little inforiour cruelty to the romish spiritual power : i pray how , or when was this set up . ch. henry the eight casting off pope clement the seventh , and so the popes power , anno , set up this spiritual power under him . see acts and mon. pag. , &c. indif . i pray you shew the likeness between these two spiritual powers . ch. i will do my best endeavour , which is but small . first , the romish spiritual power doth make laws to the conscience , and compel all thereunto by excommunication , imprisonment , banishment , death , and the like . this spiritual power doth the like , upon the like penalties , as all know . the romish power doth give titles to his ministers , which are the titles of god and christ , as spiritual lords , great bishop , and many more . this spiritual power doth the like , as all know . the romish power doth set up lords over their brethren in spiritual things , unto whom they command honour , and great livings to be given , great pomp and pride . this power doth the like , as all know . i shall not need to speak of this , in that all books are full , and all consciences ( except those that are seared with hot irons ) convinced hereof . let but mr. fox , or any others , who have described the spiritual power rome , let but their description thereof be compared with this spiritual power , in all their laws , courts , titles , pomp , pride and cruelty , and you shall see them very little differ , except in their cruelties , which ( glory be to god ) the kings majesty , who thirsteth not after blood , hath something restrained ; although it is most grievous cruelty to lye divers years in most noisom and filthy prisons , and continual temptations of want , their estates overthrown , and never coming out ( many of them ) till death ; let it be well weighed , and it is little inferiour to the cruel sudden death in times of the romish power in this nation . indif . it is very apparant it is that image or similitude of that beast spoken of , revel . . ch. oh yes , for there is no such image of the popish power under the heavens as this . well , our comfort is , the strong lord hath said , the kings of the earth ( by whose power both the beast and his image is supported ) shall take their power from her , then shall she stand naked and desolate : and to this purpose his majesty hath a worthy exhortation to all princes , &c. in his apologie , pag. . the words are these : for as she did fly but with feathers , borrowing as well her titles of greatness , and forms of honouring her from you , as also enjoying all her temporal livings by your liberalities : so if every man do but take his own again , she will stand up naked &c. oh that the words of god might be accepted of his majesty , set down by the holy ghost , rom. . thou that teachest another , teachest thou not thy self ? for , if he would take but his own , their titles of greatness , and forms of honouring them , and their temporal livings , this spiritual power would stand very naked and desolate . indif . well , the hears of kings are in the hands of the lord , and he can turn them as the rivers of waters : but i desire your advice for my own estate : i know every one must bear their own burden , i have a long time remained subject to this spiritual power , partly through ignorance , and partly through fear . ch. i will first declare into you the judgments of god against such as submit thereunto , that so from an utter abhorring thereof you may come out , never to return thither again . secondly , i will do the best i can to shew you the way the lord requireth you to walk in , and that only out of his word . the judgments are so fearful as i tremble to think of them , greater than which is not manifested in the whole book of god , rev. . , , , and the third angel followed them , saying with a loud voice , if any man worship the beast and his image , and receive his mark in his forehead , or on his hand , the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of god , yea , of the pure wine that is poured into the cup of his wrath ; he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy angels , and before the lamb. and the smoak of their torments shall ascend evermore , and they shall have no rest day nor night , which worship the beast and his image , and whosoever receiveth the print of his name . indif . i confess these judgments are to be trembled at ; but how do you apply them properly to such as worship in these assemblies ? ch. for the satisfaction of all consciences herein , that it may appear plainly , not to be gain-said , let us consider the words of wisdom , set down in order as they lye . and first , what is meant by worship . ly , what is meant by the beast . ly , what his image is . ly , what his mark is . and lastly , what is meant by forehead or hand . and first , for whorship . it is plentifully manifested in the scriptures , that it is service , subjection , or obedience to such things as are commanded by god , or others , as mat . . exod. . . deut. . . and therefore his servants we are whom we obey , rom. . . and as the lord saith , if i be your master , where is my fear ? if a father , where is mine honour or worship ? mal. . . secondly , by beast , the scripture speaketh sometimes of cruel men in power and authority ; as dan. . . luke . , . tim. . . sometimes of a blasphemous spiritual power exercised by men , received of the dragon exalting it self above god , making war with the saints , and overcoming them ; and that hath power over every kindred , and tongue , and nation , so that all that dwell upon the earth worship him , &c. and this is the beast here spoken of , even that spiritual power of jurisdiction of rome , which first wrought in a mystery , and by degrees was exalted , till at last it was exalted to this cruel beast , described revel . . , &c. which beast openeth his mouth to blasphemy against god , saying and practizing , that the commandments that god hath given for his service , are not to be regarded , but instead thereof , setteth up commands of his own , unto which whosoever will not be subject , excommunication and all cruelty , even unto death , will ensue , yea even with gunpowder ere it fail : and for this his cruelty he is called a beast . thirdly , by image is meant any form , shape similitude , or resemblance of the thing spoken of , as deut. . , , &c. exod. . . so that wheresoever such a spiritual power is , as this above described , there is the beasts image , as in england : the like power or beast to the first , is not to be found under the heavens , in exaltation and cruelty . fourthly , by mark , is meant profession or practice , whereby we are know from others , as mat. . . joh. . . joh. . . as badges of marks do put difference between this mans and that mans , in cattel or servants , as by such a mans mark we know these are his sheep , and by such a mans badg we know this man belongeth to such a great man : so they are said to have put on christ , that have received his baptism , gal. . . even as a servant is known by putting on his livery . lastly , forehead or hand ; the holy ghost useth that phrase from the old testament , where gods people were commanded , not only to lay up his commands in their hearts and in their souls , but to bind them for a sign upon their hands , that they might be as frontlets between their eyes , deut. . . and . , . the wisdom of god therein teaching , that the forehead and hand are the apparantest parts of the body , to the view of all men : so that to receive the mark in the forehead or hand , is to make manifest profession of him we obey . the sum of all which is , that whosoever openly professeth obedience and subjection to that spiritual cruel power of rome , the beast , or to that spiritual cruel power of england , his image , ( wheresoever they or either of them are exalted ) such a one , and such persons shall drink of the wine of gods wrath , and be tormented in fire and brimstone , and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore . indif . your description of the beast the papists will deny , so will the english lord bishops and their followess , deny your description of his image ; but thousands will grant both : and some will deny both , as the familists , who say , that religion standeth not in outward things , and therefore they will submit to any outward service , and they that do not so , but suffer persecution ( say they ) are justly persecuted . ch. those enemies to the cross of christ are most of them not worth information , because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin after enlightning , having forsaken the way wherein they walked , because they would not bear christs cross ; but in that some simple souls may be seduced by them , let us a little in general compare their opinion with the scriptures . true it is , that religion standeth not only in outward things , for god requireth the heart , and truth in the inward parts : but that god requireth not our subjection ( upon fearful punishments ) to those outward ordinances which he requireth , is a doctrine of devils , as i shall prove . and first , for the outward ordinances of the old testament , which were meerly shadows , and now are beggerly rudiments , gal. . . what indignation the lord had towards them that transgressed . nadab and abihu offering strange fire , which the lord hath not commanded , a fire went out from the lord and destroyed them , levit. . , . the men of bethshemesh looking into the outward ark , which god had forbidden , the lord slew fifty thousand and threescore and ten of them , sam. . . vzza , of a good intent , leaning his shoulder to the same outward ark , which god forbad , the lord slew him , i chr. — . vzziah the king oftering up outward incense , ( which god commanded to be done only by the priests , numb . . , . ) the lord smore him with leprosie until his death , chron. . corah and his company , what fearful judgments came upon them ( though he a levite ) for presuming to meddle with the priests office , the earth opening and swallowing them up , numb . . king saul likewise offering up incense ( in time of need as he thought ) the lord rent his kingdom from him , sam. . as also for his disobedience afterwards , touching the fat of the amalecks cattel , sam. . how often was the wrath of the lord poured down upon them israelites , because of their transgression of his outward ordinances , in place , person , and things ? for it was a law , lev. . , . that who so brought not his sacrifice to the place , viz. to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , but offered it up other where , blood should be imputed to that man , and he should be cut off from among his people : yea , such sacrifices were esteemed of god , as offered to devils , ver . . and the lord caused them to pronounce , ( deut. . . ) cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law , to do them : and all the people must say , so be it . was god thus jealous of moses's ordinances , and is he less jealous of christs ? must he dye that despiseth moses law , and shall he escape that despiseth christs , upon what pretence soever ? and christ saith , it becometh him , and all his , to fulfil all righteousness in outward ordinances , as washing with water , mat. . . and , whosoever saith , he knoweth god , and keepeth not his commandments , ( which are outward , aswell as inward ) he is a lyar , job . . . and whosoever breaks the least commandment , and teacheth men so , he shall be , called the least in the kingdom of heaven , mat. . . and whosoever will not hear that prophet ( christ jesus ) in all things that he shall say unto them , shall be destroyed out of his people , acts . , . the affections of the soul are to be manifested by the actions of the body , according to gods word , and all other good intents or affections are abominable . we may not , neither can we worship god with our spirits , and the devil with our bodies ; for , we are bought with a price , and therefore must not be the servants of men ; but must glorifie god with our bodies , and with our spirits , for they are his , cor. . . and . . and this may suffice to satisfie any concerning the overthrow of this cursed conceit , knowing also that christ and his apostles , and all his disciples to the end of the world , might , and may live peaceably enough from persecution , if this doctrine might be observed , viz. submission with our bodies to any outward service . the lord discover such hypocrites . indif . i bless god , i have learned of the apostle , cor. . . to say nothing against the truth , but for the truth , and therefore when i see things are evidently manifested by the scriptures , am desirous to submit , and not to cavil . but you know it is pleaded , they have the word and sacraments in the english assemblies . ch. i confess they have the scriptures , in the which gods mysteries are contained , which are locked up from them , and revealed to his saints , col. . . which they wofully pervert to their own destruction : they have also imitations of gods ordinances , as water , bread , and wine , and other things , which they use after their own inventions ; which things make them boast so much of their christianity , and of their church , which makes them reason thus : we are gods people , for we have the word and sacraments . the philistims might better have reasoned , sam. . who had the true ark of god amongst them ; ( these have but a shew ) we are gods people , for we have gods ark and holy oracles amongst us . but i think they had no great cause to rejoyce thereof in the end : no more shall these have in the end , when god recompenceth all that withhold the truth in unrighteousness . gods dealing is not now as it was of old , he now reserveth punishment to the last day , he is patient , and would have men repent : but they despise his bountifulness and long-suffering , preaching peace when there is no peace . indif . it cannot be denied , but that the ministers preach many excellent truths , and do bring people to much reformation in many things . ch. true , it cannot be denied . for , if the devil should come in his own likeness , men would resist him ; but because he transformeth himself into an angel of light , therefore he deceiveth . so his ministers , if they should teach all lyes , man would not be deceived by them , nor plead for them ; but because they teach many truths , people receive them . but first , for whatsoever they teach , they neither could nor should teach publickly , their mouths should be stopped , if they received not that their power to teach such truths from those the dragon sends ; and therefore none can receive those truths from them , but they receive the devil by whose power they teach : for , as our saviour saith , mat. . . he that receiveth you , receiveth me ; and he that receiveth me , receiveth him that sent me . so , he that receiveth those the beast sends , receiveth the beast ; and he that receiveth the beast , receiveth him that sent him , that is the devil . further. did not that southsayer balaam teach excellent truths ? numb . & chapters . yea , the southsayers of the philistims the like , sam. . yea , those in the gospel preach in christs name , mat. . . as many moe testimonies might be manifested . and secondly , for their bringing of people to reformation , and therein doing great works . did not the southsayers , before recited , sam. . shew the princes their sin in detaining gods ark , and the judgments against them for the same , exhorting them to send it away , and not to harden their hearts , as pharoah and the egyptians hardned their hearts ? and was not reformation wrought hereby ? and did not they that preached in christs name cast out devils , and do many and great works ? of whom our saviour testifieth , he never acknowledged them . but let us a little consider wherein the reformation consistech , procured by their preaching , in drunkenness , whoredom , swearing , &c. moral duties , which things whosoever is not reformed in , shall never see gods kingdom ; yet which things many of the philosophers ( that knew not god ) abounded in , as they that know the stories cannot deny . but do they teach their hearers to hate vain inventions , and love god's law ? in a general manner of teaching they may , but if it come to particular practice , you shall see what they will do . do they teach any to submit to that one law-giver , christ jesus , for the guidance of his church , and not to antichrists abominations ? no , they will tell you , you must sigh and groan , till the magistrate will reform ; for you are a private person , and must be subject : and if the powerful working of gods word and spirit prevail in you , to let you see , that the magistrates not reforming will not excuse you at the day of account , but that that soul that committeth abomination shall dye , and that rather than you will worship the beast or his image , you will suffer with christ peaceably , separating your self from such open prophanation as neither can nor will be reformed ; endeavouring to square your self both in your entrance , and walking in christs way , unto that golden rule that he hath left for direction : then the best of all those preachers and reformers will be hot and bitter , labouring with all the turning of devices to turn you , and withhold you from reformation : and if they cannot prevail hereby , then publish you in their priviledged pulpits , where none may answer them , you are a schismatick , brownist , anabaptist , and what not ? to make the multitude abhor your doings , and not to follow you therein ; and some of them ( if not all ) under a colour , procure your imprisonment and trouble by their canonized lords , or some of their hellish pursevants . and such preachers of reformation are the best of them all . indif . oh how have we been besotted in these things for want of true knowledge and understanding from the scriptures ! how have i and others satisfied our selves with these things , in that our estate was happy , perswading our selves thereof ! when alas , our fear towards god was taught by the inventions of men ; but the reason thereof was , we judged our selves by our own perswasions , and not by gods word . ch. i pray you let not that seem strange unto you , that people should perswade themselves of their good estate with god , when it is not so . the israelites , gods people , thought their estate good many times , when alas it was otherwise , as the prophets declared unto them ; yea , our saviour testifieth , that they boasted of god being their father , when they not so much as knew him , joh. . . yea , when they were of their father the devil , ver . . the five foolish virgins thought their condition good enough , and that they should have been let in , but it was otherwise , luke . the wicked thought they did god service that killed christs disciples , joh. . , mans heart is deceitful , jer. . . who are more confident of their good estate with god than the papists , notwithstanding all their gross abominations ? even so have you and i ( god pardon us ) thought beyond all , that we were in a good estate , having such zealous teachers , that teach so many excellent truths under the title of christs ministers , till we came to examine them , as the church of ephesus did , rev. . then we found them to have no other ministry than that they received from the beast and his image , which the dragon gave , rev. . indif . are all , without exception , in this fearful estate to be case into the lake , that burneth with fire and brimstone ? ch. all that submit , obey , or worship the beast without exception ; for there is no respect of persons with god. so saith the lord , if any man worship , &c. these worshippers under the beast's image may be divided into two sorts : first , those that ignorantly perswade themselves that all that is practised is good and acceptable to god : secondly , those that see and acknowledge many things to be evil , which they would gladly have removed ; but because they cannot without the crosss of christ , partly for that , and partly by the perswasion of their prophets ( that the things are not fundamental , and the like pretences ) all submit , and teach men so . indif . some affirm , there be thousands in england that never worshipped the beast , &c. but be careful to keep the commandments of god , and faith of jesus . ch. such are not under these judgments ; but if their meaning be of any that submit to these ordinances appointed for these assemblies , such teachers preach peace when there is none , strengthen the wicked that they cannot return from their wicked way , by promising them life , whose reward shall be according to the reward of such false prophets , ezek. . . and chap. . . because they follow their own spirit , and have not received it from the lord : for thus saith the lord , such shall drink of the wine of the wrath of god. indif . it is also affirmed by some , that in respect of personal graces , some of the professors ( as they are called ) are the children of god , and may be communicated with privately , though in respect of their church actions they are members of antichrists body , to whom are judgments of god appertaineth . ch. this opinion proceedeth not from gods word , but from man's vain heart , by the suggestion of the devil : which , that it may evidently appear , let us a little consider of it . in truth it is to say , that in one respect they have gods promises appertaining to them : in another respect they have gods most fearful torments ( pronounced against that beast , and that false prophet , rev. . . ) appertaining to them : in one respect they are gods people , serving him their master : in another respect the devils people , serving him their master : in one respect they shall be saved , in another respect they shall be damned . but what false doctrine this is , gods holy word doth discover . our saviour saith , no man can serve two masters ; ye cannot serve god and riches , mat. . . and can any serve christ and the beast , god and the dragon ? when christ shall come at the last day to give to every man according to his works , will he say to any one , in respect of thy personal graces i will save thee , come thou blessed , ( as he will say to all his children : ) but in respect of thy being a member of antichrists body , i will damn thee , go thou cursed , as he will to all that worship or obey the beast ? will not christ jesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to every one ? and that according to this word , joh. . . so as god in his righteousness will either justifie or condemn every man : so hath he taught us to know , that no fountain can make salt water and sweet , jam. . . and therefore , that by mens fruits we should know and judge them to be not both good and evil trees at one time , as this opinion teacheth , but either good , or evil : alwayes taking heed , we justifie not the wicked , nor condemn the innocent , both which are abominable to the lord : and for any communion whatsoever with them ; what fellowship hath christ with antichrist , the righteous with the wicked , the servants of the lamb , with the servants of the beast ? but i leave this for further answer to thse , who although they are nearer to this man that hath published this opinion than i am , yet hath ( according to truth ) confessed in writing , that there is nothing to be expected from christ , by any member of the church of england , but a pouring out of his eternal wrath upon them . mr. de-cluse . advertis . pag. . indif . well , i praise god , i am much informed in these things ; yet one thing more i will desire your answer unto : the case standeth thus with me : in these things i am betwixt faith and doubting ; though the rather i believe these things you say are true , and that i may never go to these assemblies again without sin ; but i am not so perswaded thereof , that i dare suffer for it : what if i should ( not having faith to suffer ) for fear of persecution , go to their worship again ? ch. it were your most fearful sin , which i prove thus ; and i pray you observe it well : you must do it , either as being verily perswaded you do well , and then all this beginning of light in you should be extinguished , and so your estate is with the worst , if not worse : or else you must do it , doubting whether you do well or no : for i hope you will not say , you do it knowing you do evil . if you do it doubting , the lord saith , it is sin , rom. . . which i hope you will acknowledge , and not approve your self to do well in sinning , and then god is merciful to forgive your sin , either this or any other , joh. . . but if you say , you sin not therein , doing it doubtingly , you make god a lyar , who saith , it is sin , and your sin remaineth . indif . what if i should many times go through weakness ? ch. if you unfainedly repent , being through weakness , there is mercy with god , though it should be seventy times seven times in a day , mat , . , . but we had need to take heed of our repentance . the apostle saith , where there is godly sorrow for sin , what care it worketh in you , yea , what indignation , &c. cor. . and custom in sin is dangerous , we had need to take heed we be not hardned through the deceitfulness of sin , heb. . . indif . then you hold , that if any man approve himself in sinning , his sin remaineth . ch. if any man sin , and say he hath not sinned , there is no truth in him , joh. . . and god will enter into judgment with him , jer. . . indif . then absolutely i see , that if any man worship the beast , or his image , &c. as before you have shewed , he neither hath faith nor fear of god in him , what shew of godliness soever he maketh . but what say you , may not a man that separateth from all uncleanness , though he yet see not the way of christ in his ordinances , may not such a man be saved ? ch. yes , upon this condition , that he believe in jesus christ for his only righteousness , and be willing and ready to hear and obey his ordinances ; an example hereof we have in cornelius , acts . but if any will not hear that prophet ( christ jesus ) in all things whatsoever he shall say unto them , they shall be destroyed out of his people , acts . , . indif . what do you mean by will not hear ? ch. that when any part of the way of god is manifested to them , they despise and contemn it , or carelesly neglect it ; otherwise men may not receive some of christs truth , and yet not be said , that they will not receive it . indif . next after forsaking the wayes of wickedness , and imbracing christ for our righteousness , what must we do ? ch. christs whole testament teacheth this , and no other way , after repentence from dead works , and faith towards god , to be baptized with water , matth. . . acts . . and . , . and . . and a cloud of witnesses , calling these the beginnings of christ , and foundation , heb. . , &c. indif . may none be admitted to the church to partake in the ordinances , except they be baptized ? ch. if any teach otherwise , he presumeth above what is written , cor. . . and therefore ought to be held accursed , gal. . , . for there was never true church , since christ was manifested in the flesh , joyned together of unbaptized persons , though some have vainly published the contrary . indif . true , i think that cannot be denyed , where the persons were never baptized ; but now the members of the church of rome , from whence the baptism of the church of england cometh , are baptized , therefore why need they again be baptized ? ch. if they be baptized with christs baptism , i will acknowledge they need not again be baptized : but that the baptism of the church of rome is christs baptism , that can never be proved ; for christ requireth that only his disciple should baptize his disciple , and into his body : none of which is in romes baptism : for christs adversaries wash with water , those that are not christs disciples , into the body , not of christ , but of antichrist . indif . i confess that the church of rome , and members thereof , are the church and members of antichrist , but they use the water and words in their baptism that christ appointed . ch. what then ? is it therefore christs baptism ? the conjurers used the same words that the apostles did , acts . , &c. we adjure you by the name of jesus , &c. yet abominable was their action . also , psal . . unto the wicked said god , what hast thou to do with my ordinances , or to take my word in thy mouth , &c. also the papists use the same words in their church , that christ hath appointed to be used in his , as also in their ministry , is it therefore christs church and ministry ? they use also the same words , and washing with water , in baptizing their bells , that they use in baptizing their infants , is it therefore christs baptism ? if answer be made , bells are not to be baptized . i answer , no more are the seed of wicked persecutors , by our opposits own confession . if this were any thing , you should see what would follow : the baptism of rome is christs baptism , because they use water and these words ; so if any use water and these words , as the jews , or any other of christs adversaries ( as the papists are ) then there is christs baptism . consider this , and see what truth there is in it . indif . though the baptism of the church of rome should be naught , yet the baptism of the church of england may be good , in that there be many thousands that were never baptized in the church of rome . ch. i answer , that the first beginning of the church of england was made of the members of the church of rome , as is apparant in the dayes of king henry the eight , and afterwards in the beginning of queen elizabeths reign , after qu. maries death , and so continueth unto this day ; and the long continuance of it , makes it not approvable . and the papists themselves bid the protestants prove if they have , or hold any other baptism , church , or ministry , than that they have from them , and shew it , and they will recant . besides , the baptism now practised in the church of england , is no better , no otherwise than that of rome : for the church of rome baptizeth all the infants of the most wicked that are in her dominions ; and so the church of england baptizeth all the infants of the most wicked that are in the kings majesties dominions ; and of this timber are both these churches built ; and therefore we may truly say , as is the mother , so is the daughter . and as they are in their first building , so they are in most of their laws , lords , law-makers , courts , and thousands of their abominations , insomuch that it is plain enough , the latter is the very image of the first ; unto which , whosoever submitteth , or obeyeth , or maintaineth their baptism , or any other of their humane trash , he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone for evermore , and shall never have rest day nor night , rev. . and therefore in gods fear cast away that cursed action of washing , where was neither christs disciple administring , nor his disciple upon whom it was adminstred , nor christs body or church baptized into : and obey christs voice , in becoming his disciple , and to his church , that you may be baptized by his disciple , and be made a member of his body or church . this only is christs baptism , and of him acknowledged , and ought to be of all his disciples , and the contrary to be held accursed , and in no sort maintained or kept . indif . it is objected , that we must cast away that which is mans ordinance , and retain that which is gods ordinance , namely , washing , and water , and words . ch. i deny that any thing in that action was gods ordinance or appointment : what truth is there in this , to say , that because god appointeth water , and washing , and words in his baptism , therefore howsoever water , and washing and these words are used , that is christs ordinance ? i confess , water , and washing , and words are gods ordinance , being used as he hath commanded , the which i acknowledge must be held ; but this use of them , or action fore-spoken of being not the use of them , or action appointed of god ( as the adversaries confess ) is to be cast away as execrable . indif . further , it is objected , they repent of that which is evil , and retain that which is good . ch. for the better discovering of this deceit , let us consider what is the evil they confess and that they repent of : say they , an unlawfull person performed an unlawful action upon an unlawful person , this is the evil . now this is the question , whether this action , thus unlawfully performed may be kept , and yet repented of ? the scripture teacheth , that not only confessing , but forsaking sin ; in repentance , pra. . . can a thief that hath stolen goods , repent thereof to acceptance with god , and not make restitution to the party wronged ? being in his power , or having ability to restore ; i would know how this will be maintained ? for the one is a greater theft than the other . indif . it is further objected , that jeroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their idolatrous estate , yet such as were circumcised in that estate , were not afterwards circumcised when they came to repentance . ch. it is their forgery so to object : for , either they had right to circumcision , being true israelites , although in transgression , or else none had right to circumcision in the world , no not judah : for , what can be said , but that because the ten tribes were in rebellion against god , therefore they had no right to circumcision ? may not the same be said in as high a measure of judah ? was israels sin half so great as judahs ? if it be said , that israel forsook the place of gods worship , the temple ; so did judah too , worshipping under every green tree , and grove , and high place : whatsoever can be said of the one , as much may be said of the other . this is a meer deceitful forgery , raised up by satan in the hearts of his false prophets , to deceive themselves , and them that shall perish , if they repent not , in that they receive not the love of the truth , but believe these lyes , and have pleasure therein ; concluding from this false ground , that because the israelites in transgression were circumcised , and after coming to repentance were not circumcised again : so egyptians , sodomites and babylonians , never having been israelites , baptized in the synagogues of satan , are not to be rebaptised ( as they call it ) there being no comparison betwixt the persons ; the one being true israelites according to the flesh , gods people , to whom by gods appointment circumcision appertained , & who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it ; and the other true babylonians , gods adversaries , unto whom god threatneth his judgements , for taking his ordinances in their mouthes or hands . indif . i see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the persons in circumcision and baptism ; for the one were the persons appointed of god to be circumcised , which circumcision taught them the forsaking of their wickedness , and bound them to the observation of the law , gal. . . and they had no cause to repent of that their action : the other are not the persons appointed of god to be baptized , but sinned in that their action , and must repent thereof , by your opposits own confession . but if this be granted , this question ariseth , who shall then baptize after antichrists exaltation ? ch. for answer to this : there are three wayes professed in the world ; one by the papists , and their several successors , professing succession from the pope and his ministers : another by the familists and scattered flock , that none may intermeddle therewith lawfully , till their extraordinary men come : another , we and others affirm , that any disciple of christ , in what part of the world soever , coming to the lords way , he by the word and spirit of god preaching that way unto others , and converting , he may and ought also to baptise them . the two former i shall through the help of god confute , and confirm the latter by the scriptures . first , to the papists and all their several successors , some standing for all by succession from rome , some for more , some for less , some for nothing but baptism , being of our judgement for the appointing of their ministry . to them all i answer with the words of the lord , psa . . . what have antichrists ministers to do to take gods word in their mouths , or to declare his ordinances , seeing they hate to be reformed , and have cast gods word behind their backs ? if they have nothing to do with his word and ordinances , then not with ministry and baptism . besides , god hath forbidden that the adversaries of him , his temple , and them that dwell in heaven , should build , according to that of nehem. . . the god of heaven he will prosper us , and we his servants will rise up and build ; but as for you , you have no portion , nor right , nor memorial in jerusalem . secondly , to that fantastical sect i answer ; it is their dream and false vision to look for extraordinary men , for god hath not spoken it : for if an angel from hevven should come and preach otherwise than those extraordinary men the apostles have preached , which none else could preach , and which is written in christs testament , we are to hold them accursed , gal. . , . which truth none need go into heaven to seek , but every one that searcheth the scriptures may find by the direction of the holy ghost , which god hath promised to all that obey him , acts . and ask it , mat. . . indif . now i pray you let me hear your confirmation of your practice . ch. as it was in the second building of the material temple , after the captivity of babylon in caldea ; so , according to the true proportion , it is to be in the second building of the spiritual temple after the captivity of spiritual babylon . now this is to be observed in the former , that every israelite , with whom the lord was , and whose spirit the lord stirred up , was commanded to go and build , ezra . , . though some were more excellent in the business than others . so now , every spiritual israelite with whom the lord is , and whose spirit the lord stirreth up , are commanded to go and build , and the lord will prosper them in rising up and building , though some be more excellent in the business than others ; the beginning of which spiritual building , is , first to beget men anew by the immortal seed to gods word , so making them living stones , and thereupon to comple them together a spiritual house unto god , pet. . upon the confession of their faith by baptism , as the scriptures of the new testament every where teach , as before is shewed . indif . it is confessed of many , that any that have gifis may preach , and convert , but not baptize . ch. such our saviour accounteth hypocrites , and reproveth , mat. . that held it was lawful to swear by the temple , but not by the gold on the temple ; by the altar , but not by the offering on the altar : to whom he saith , wether is greater , the gold , or the temple that sanctifieth the gold ? the offering , or the altar that sanctifieth the offering ? so may i say , whether is greater , the water and washing , or the word that sanctifies the water ? indif . what other example have you in the scriptures , that an unbaptized person may baptize ? ch. if there were no other than that afore-mentioned , it were sufficient . an israelite circumcised in flesh , god stirring up his heart , was to build the temple made with hands , from the first stone to the last ; so an israelite circumcised in heart , god stirring him up , is to build the temple made without hands , from the first stone to the last , beginning with , go , preach and baptize , teaching to observe all that god commands , as christ teacheth his disciples to the end of the world . but further , we have the particular example of john baptist , who being unbaptised , preached , converted , and baptised . indif . but john baptist was an extraordinary man , it will be objected , for god spake to him extraordinarily . ch. what then , is not his practice written for our instruction ? god hath spoken at several times after sundry manners , heb. . , &c. yet all to one end . as for this of john baptist , the same god that spake to john baptist in the wilderness his word , the same god speaketh to us in his scriptures the same word he spake to john ; and therefore seeing the lord hath spoken , who shall not preach and practise according to his word ? seeing now god speaketh to no particular persons ; for whatsoever things were written afore time , were written for every mans instruction , rom. . . indif . many famous men , as mr. perkins and others confess , that if a turk should come to the knowledge of the truth in turkey , he might preach the same to others , and converting them , baptize them , though unbaptized himself . ch. true , but this mystery of iniquity so prevaileth , perswading many that they are christians , because they had baptism in their infancy , when it appertained not to them , that they think their case is better than the turks , though alas , it is much worse ; for it shall be easier for the turks than for them , if gods vvord be true . are not all jews and gentiles in one estate by nature ? and is there more than one way of coming to christ for them both , namely , to be the sons of god by faith , and to put on christ by baptism ? gal. . , . who hath set up his new way , christ or antichrist ? indif . many of those called brownists do confess , that they are reasonably perswaded , that antichristians coming to the truth may be baptized ; and they would not differ with you concerning that , but that you deny infants baptism ; what say you , may not the infants of the faithful be baptized ? ch. no , except god have appointed it . indif . you know it is granted , that there is neither plain command nor example for it in christs testament , but from the consequence of circumcision , in that covenant that god made with abraham and his seed , gen. . and other places agreeing therewith . ch. let us endeavour to put an end to this , if it may be in short . i demand of you , what covenant the lord meanthe here ? it must be granted , he meaneth , either the covenant of the land of canaan , with all the promises thereof ; or the covenant of christs coming of his lyons concerning the flesh ; or else the covenant of life and salvation by christ : one of these three it must needs be . let me have your answer , or any mans hereto . indif . the first and second cannot be pleaded , therefore it must be the third , namely , life and salvation by christ . ch. vvell , then i demand , have the fleshly children of the faithfull more priviledge to life and salvation than the faithful themselves ? indif . no , i think it cannot be said . ch. vvell , then i affirm that the faithful have right to this covenant of life and salvation only upon their repentance and faith , and not otherwise ; and so have their children , and not otherwise ; except you will say they have greater priviledge thatn the faithful ; or else , that they have life and salvation by their parents faith ; or else , that they have right and title to it , whether they repent and believe or no. if any say they have right and title to it by gods promise . i answer , god hath promised life and salvation by christ to none that are under condemnation , but only by repentance and faith : let any shew the contrary if they be able . if any say , as some foolishly have done , being urged , that it is the covenant of the visible church : what covenant is that but the covenant of life and salvation made to the faithfull , christ body and church ? and therefore , seeing they are so confounded herein , some teaching one thing , and some another ; some that infants have neither faith nor repentance , but by vertue of the covenant made to their parents : others teach , that repentance and faith is to be performed of every one that is to be baptised , and that infants may repent and believe by their sureties till they come to age themselves : seeing , i say , they are thus confounded herein , having nothing in christs perfect testament , only some shew of a forged consequence , and also that they agree not amongst themselves ; let us take heed of prophaning the lords holy ordinance , administring it where he hath not commanded . many other things might be said , but this may suffice , seeing much is already written , and more may be ere long , knowing they have nothing to say but their several conceits . indif . i praise god you have given me great satisfaction in these things ; what must we do after our baptism ? ch. as the saints our predecessors did , they that glady received the word , were baptized , and they continued in the apstles doctrine , fellowships , breaking of bread , and prayers , acts . walking in fear towards god , and in love in word and deed one towards another , according to the blessed rules in christs testament ; and also justly and unblamably towards all men , that they may cause their conversation aswell as their doctrine to shine before men , that men may see their good works , and glorifie their father which is in heaven ; without the which conversation all profession is nothing . indif . it is a great stumbling-block to many , that divers who profess religion , walk corruptly in their conversation , it is a great cause that the wicked open their mouthes against gods truth . ch. alas , it is most lamentable ! but gods people must know , it hath been and will be so unto the end of the world : and therefore christ jesus hath appointed means for the redressing thereof in his church , mat. . and cor. , &c. and we may not justifie or condemn any religion whatsoever by mens personal walkings . may we say , the religion of the philosophers was good because of their moral vertues ? or , that the religion that judah and david professed was evil , because of judahs incest , and davids adultery and murder , gen. . & . sam. . or the religion of christ evil , because that one that professed it , fell into incest , i cor. . gods people had need to take heed of sinning , whereby to cause the adversaries to blaspheme , for the which god may make them examples to all succeeding ages . ind. i give you hearty thanks for your pains with me in these things , and i trust i shall not let them slip , but remember them all may life , and put them in practice . ch. the glory and thanks thereof only belongeth to god , for to him it is due ; but this i desire you to consider , that the knowing of the will of god , without practising of it , doth us rather hurt than good ; the scripture saith , not the knowers , but the doers are justified , rom. . . jam. . . and , he that knows his masters will and doth it not , shall be beaten with many stripes . many there be in this nation ( with grief of soul i speak it ) that acknowledge and confess the truth , but praclise it not , for some respects or other ; the lord perswade all your hearts to the speedy practice thereof , and that by many examples that are left unto you . david that man of god saith , i made haste , and delayed not to keep thy commandments , psal . . . the disciples , mat. . immediately without tarrying followed christ . the three thousand , the same day they were informed , obeyed the lord , and were baptized , acts . the samaritans , acts . . assoon as they believed were baptized , both men and women . the eunuch likewise , ver . . the jaylor , lydia , paul , and a cloud of witnesses , communing not with flesh and blood , but obeyed the lord assoon as they believed . here was no staying to hear what this , and that learned man could say against it , as now a dayes , but as they were confidently perswaded thereof , they obeyed . and so i am assured it shall be by little and little , as the kingdom of the beast diminisheth . indif . i hope i shall testifie to all , my speedy walking in the steps of these holy men ; but one thing there is yet which bath much troubled me and others , and in my judgment hat much hindred the growth of godliness in this kingdom , and that is , that many , so soon as they see or fear trouble will ensue , they flie into another nation who cannot see their conversation , and there by deprive many poor ignorant souls in their own nation , of their information , and of their conversation amongst them . ch. oh! that hath been the overthrow of religion in this land , the best able and greater part being gone , and leaving behind them some few , who by the others departure have had their afflictions and contempt increased , which hath been the cause of many falling back and of the adversaries exalting : but they will tell us , we are not to judge things by the effects , therefore we must prove that their flight unlawful , or we say nothing . and frist whereas it is said by some of these flyers , that many of the people of god fled into forreign countries , and that god gave approbation thereof , as moses , david , our saviour christ in his infancy , and other , thinking hereby to justifie this their flight . i answer , god preserved moses and the rest in their flight , till the time was come that he imployed them in his service , then in no case he would suffer them to flie ; as when moses manifested his exceeding backwardness to the lords work , in helping his people out of bondage , using many excuses , the lord was very angry with him , exod. . — . and whither out saviour flie when the time came that he was to shew himself to israel ? luk. . . if any of these men can prove the lord requireth no work at their hands to be done for his glory , and the salvation of thousands of ignorant souls in their own nation , let them stay in foreign countries . but i trust gods people have learned , not to say , the time is not yet come that babel should be destroyed , and the lords house builded , but that the time is come to build the lords house , and not to dwell in ceiled houses , hag. . or any way to seek our outward promotion ; which if it be granted , that the time is come , not only to come out of babel , but to destroy her , all these objections are nothing ; except they prove , that when god called any of his people to his work , they left it for fear of trouble . this doctrine was not approved of god when the time came that his adversaries were to be rooted out , and that his people had gotten some victory . the rubenites and the gadites could have been content to have remained to their most peace and commodity , num . but moses said unto them , shall your brethren go to war , and ye tarry here ? where fore now discourage ye the hearts of the children of israel , &c. sharply reproving them , as an increase of sinful men , risen upon their fathers steads still to augment the fierce wrath of the lord ; and moses would not be satisfied until they had promised that they would go with their brethren to the lords work , and would not return to their houses till they had accomplished the same . and the angel of the lord doth say , curse ye meroz , curse the inhabitants thereof , because they came not to the help of the lord , to help the lord againsst the mighty , judg. . . also , because the men of jabesh gilead came not up to the lord , to help their brethren against the wicked men of gibeath , all the men were destroyed , and all the women that had lien by men , judg. . , no excuse whatsoever could serve . did god thus respect his work and people then , as all must put to their helping hand , and none must withdraw their shoulder lest others were discouraged ; and is there no regard to be had thereof now , but any occasion , as fear of a little imprisonments , or the like , may excuse any , both from the lords work , and the help of their brethren , that for want of their society and comfort are exceedingly weakned , if not overcome ? if answer be made , they perform their duty in both , that they do the lords work ; the pastor feeding his flock , and the people walking in fellowship one towards another . i demand , doth the lord require no more work of them ? doth he not require that they should help to cast down babel ? if reply be made , they do it by their books . i answer , that may be done , and their lights shine by their mouthes and conversations also among the wicked , which is the greatest means of converting them , and destroying antichrists kingdom : they overcame ( not by flying away , but ) by the blood of the lamb , and by the word of their testimony , and they loved not their lives unto the death , rev. . . gods people are the lights of the world , a city set on a hill , a candle set on the candlestick , giving light to all that come in , mat. and therefore must shine by their persons , more than by their books . and great help and encouragement would it be to gods people in affliction of imprisonment and the like , to have their brethrens presernce to administer to their souls or bodies , and for which cause christ will say , i was in prison , and ye visited me ; in distress , and ye comforted me ; and unto those that do not so according to their ability , go ye cursed , mat. . if men had greater love to gods commands , or the salvation of thousands of ignorant souls in our nation , that for want of instruction perish , than to a little temporal affliction , they would never publish nor practise as they do in this thing . thus have i in short shewed you my poor ability in these things . and for all other things we hold ; as the lawfulness of magistracy , gods blessed ordinance : and christ our saviour taking his flesh of the virgin mary , by the wonderful work of the holy ghost , &c. you may see them in our confession in print , published four years ago . indif . many that be called anabaptists hold the contrary , and many other strange things . ch. we cannot but lament for it ; so did many in christs churches in the primitive times hold strange opinions ; as some of the corinths denyed the resurrection ; and in many of the seven churches were grievous things , which the lord by his servants warned them of , upon pain of his displeasure and removing of his presence from them ; nevertheless , others professing the same general cause of christ , were commended . indif . well , you will yet be called anabaptists , because you deny baptism to infants . ch. so were christians before us called sects : and so they may iohn baptist , jesus christ himself , and his apostles anabaptists ; for we profess and practise no otherwise herein , than they , namely , the baptizing of such as confess with the mouth the belief of the heart . and if they be anabaptists that deny baptism where god hath appointed it , they , and not we are anabaptists . but the lord give them repentance , that their sins may be put away , and never laid to their charge , even for his christs sake . amen . an humble supplication to the kings majesty ; as it was presented , . to the high and mighty king , james , by the grace of god , king of great brittain , france , and ireland . to the right excellent and noble prince , charles , prince of wales , &c. to all the right hanorable nobility , grave and honorable judges , and to all other the right worshipful gentry , of all estates and degrees , assembled in this present parliament . right high and mighty , right excellent & noble , right honourable , and right worshipful ; as the consideration of that divine commandment of the king of kings ( let supplications , prayers , intercessions , and giving of thanks be made for kings , and for all that are in authority , that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life , in all godliness and honesty ) doth cause in us a daily practice thereof in our secret chambers for you all , as in duty we are bound , of which the searcher of all hearts beareth us witness ; so let it be pleasing unto your majesty ; and the rest in authority , that we make humble supplications and prayers to you , for such our bodily miseries and wants as are upon us ; in that it is in your power to redress them ; and especially at this present in this high meeting , assembled for the publick weal of all your loyal subjects . our miseries are long and lingring imprisonments for many years in divers counties of england , in which many have dyed and left behind them widows and many small children : taking away our goods , and others the like , of which we can make good probation ; not for any disloyalty to your majesty , nor hurt to any mortal man , ( our adversaries themselves being judges ) but only because we dare not assent unto , and practise in the worship of god , such things as we have not faith in , because it is sin against the most high , heb. . . rom. . . as your majesty well observeth in these words : it is a good and safe rule in theology , that in matters of the worship of god , quod dubitas , ne fereris , according to pauls rule , rom. . . let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind . medit. on lo. prayer . if we were in error herein , these courses of afflicting our bodies for conscience cause , are not of christ , but of antichrist , as hereafter is most plainly shewed ; and if no church be the rule of faith , but only the holy scriptures ; as the learned protestants do truly confess , and that therefore the doctrine of the church of rome ( that all must believe as the church believes , and so practise , or else be cruelly persecuted ) be most ungodly , as it is : then how can they avoid the like censure that practise the same thing , contrary to their own judgement ? for the learned protestants do say , it is high cruelty for the papists to constrain them to practise those things in gods worship which they have not faith in , nay , which they know to be evil , with imprisonment , fire and faggot : and therefore why may not we say , it is great cruelty for the learned prorestants to constrain us to practise such things in gods worship , which we have not faith in ? nay , which we certainly know to be evil , with lingring imprisonment , loss of goods , and what other cruelties they can procure against us of your majesty and the civil state. if your learned say , they have the truth , and we are in errour ; that resteth to be tryed by the true touchstone , the holy scriptures . if they be our judges , the verdict must needs go against us . if their sayings be a safe rule for us to be saved by , we will rest upon them ; and then why may not the saying of the papists be sure also , and they be the protestants judges ? and so bring us all to believe as the church believes . the iniquity of which we have discovered as briefty as we could ; beseeching your majesty and all that are in authority , to hear us . it concerneth our eternal salvation , or condemnation , and is therefore of great importance ; for what can a man give for the ranfom of his soul ? oh he pleased to remember the saying of that great and good man job , chap. . i delivered the poor that cryed , and the fatherless , and him that had none to help him : the blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me , and i caused the widows heart to rejoyce . i was a father to the poor , and when i knew not the cause , i sought it out diligently . i brake also the jaws of the unrighteous man , and pluckt the prey out of his teeth . our prayers are , and shall be for you day and night , to that god of glory , by whom you reign and are advanced , that he will pat it into your hearts to let these things enter into your thoughts , and then we doubt not ( the evidence of them being such ) that you will be moved to repeal and make void all those cruel laws ( which we most humbly beseech ) which persecute poor men only for matters of conscience ; not that we any way desire for our selves or others , any the least liberty from the strict observation of any civil , temporal , or humane law , made or to be made , for the preservation of your majesties person , crown , state or dignity ; for , all that give not to caesar that which is his , let them bear their burden : but we only desire , that god might have that which is his , which is the heart and soul in that worship that he requireth , over which there is but one lord , eph. . . and one law-giver , who is able to save it , or to destroy it , jam . , which no mortal man can do . it is not in your power to compel the heart ; you may compel men to be hypocrites , as a great many are , who are false-hearted both towards god and the state ; which is sin both in you and them . the vileness of persecuting the body of any man only for cause of conscience , is against the word of god and law of christ : it is against the profession of your majesty ; against the profession and practice of famous princes ; the antient and later approved writers witness against it ; so do the puritans ; yea , the establishers of it , the papists themselves inveigh against it : so that god and all men do detest it , as is herein shewed . and therefore in most humble manner , we do beseech your majesty , your highness , your honours , your worships , to consider of it , and do as god directeth you in his word , that cannot lye ; let the wheat and tares grow together in the world until the harvest , matth. . and so in humble manner we proceed . chap. i. the rule of faith is the doctrine of the holy ghost contained in the sacred scriptures , and not any church , council , prince or potentate , nor any mortal man whatsoever . proved , by the scriptures themselves , which are the writings of moses and the prophers , the evangelists and apostles ; these are a sufficient rule alone to try all faith and religion by : our reasons are , . they are inspired of god , and are able to make us wise unto salvation , and perfect to every good work , . tim. . , &c. . because these writings are written , that we might have certainly of the things whereof we are instructed , luke . . that our joy might be full , joh. . . and that we might believe , and in believing might have life , john . . . we are commanded not to presame ( or be wise ) above what is written , cor. . . for , with this weapon christ put to flight the devil , mat. . . and taught his disciples , luke . , . and paul taught christ jesus , acts . . the godly are commended for searching the scriptures , acts . . all are commanded to search them , john . . and they that will not believe these writings , will not believe christs words , john . . nor one that should come from the dead , luke . . if any ask how we know all , or any of these scriptures to be inspired of god ? we answer , the ear ( saith job . ) discerneth words , and the mouth tasteth meat for it self ; and as the eye discerneth the light of the sun , so doth our spirit discern these scriptures to be inspired of god , and that for these reasons : . in regard of the majesty , wisdom and grace of them from all other writings ; for there is a great glory in these scriptures , as in the making of this wonderful world , which is most evidently discerned , heb. . . . by their teachings , which excel all humane teachings , leading us from satan , from this world and our selves , to god , to holiness , faith , love , fear , obedience , humility . . the true events of them , or fulfilling of the prophesies contained in them . . the consent and agreement of all the parts of them , the like whereof cannot be shewed of so many several writers since the world began . . the admirable preservation thereof against time and tyrants ; all which could not extinguish them . . the devil and his instruments rage against those that practise the doctrines contained in them . . the conversion of thousands to god , by the power of their doctrine . . the vengeance that hath come upon such as have not obeyed them . . the acknowledgment of them by the very professed adversaries thereof . . the miracles confirming them from heaven . . the fight of a saviour to man is only by and from them . and lastly , the simplicity of the writers and plainness of the writings ; for god hath chosen the mean , contemptible and despised , to manifest unto the world his mysteries , cor. . these are sufficient to perswade , that those holy writings are inspired of god , and so able to make wise unto salvation , and perfect to every good work , these scriptures contain the law and testimony ; and if any church , council , prince or potentate speak not according to this word , it is because there is not light in them , isa . . . and we are commanded to hold them accursed , gal. . , . for , whosoever shall adde unto these things , god shall adde the plagues written herein ; and whosoever shall take away from these things , god shall take his name out of the book of life , and out of the holy city , and from those things that are written , revel , . much by us shall not need to be written on this subject , the thing is so evident , and so generally acknowledged , at least in words , ( excepting the papists , with whom we have not here to do ) only we will adde some humane testimonies . whites way to the church , dedicated to two bishops , pag. . the learned protestants affirm and prove , that it is the doctrine of the church of england , artic. chap. that the scripture comprehended in the old and new testament , is the rule of faith so far , that whatsoever is not read therein , or cannot be proved thereby , is not to be accepted as any point of faith , or needful to be followed ; but by it all doctrines taught , and the churches practice must be examined , and that rejected which is contrary to it , under what title or pretence soever it come unto us . and further they say , p. . that the pope , or any mortal man should be the rule that must resolve in questions and controversies of faith , is an unreasonable position , void of all indifferency ; when common sense teacheth , that he that is a party , cannot be judge . and again , pag. . — which is the church is controversal , which is the scriptures is not ; therefore let that be the rule which is out of doubt . and again , the scriptures contain the principles of our faith , and shall we not believe them ? or , cannot we know them infallibly of themselves , without we let in the authority of the church ? this , and much more , the learned protestants have written , and sufficiently confirms , that no church nor man whatsoever may be the judge , rule or umpier in matters of faith , but only the holy scriptures ; and whosoever teacheth and practiseth otherwise , they must hold and maintain the papists , creed , or colliers faith , which the protestants so much in words detest , pag. . and mention our of staphilus his apology , thus : the collier being at the point of death , and tempted of the devil what his faith was ? answered : i believe , and dye in the faith of christs church : being again demanded what the faith of christs church was ? that faith ( said he ) that i believe in . thus the devil getting no other answer , was overcome and put to flight . by this paith of the collier every unlearned man may try the spirits of men , whether they be of god or no : by this faith he may resist the devil , and judge the true interpretation from the false , and discern the catholick from the heretical minister , the true doctrine from the forged . if the answer of the collier , and the papists conclusion upon it be not sound , but detestable , as the protestants confess , and cry wo unto the papists for the same , and that justly ; then is it no less detestable in the protestants or any other to require , or any to yeeld so far in religion and faith , that upon such a temptation he hath no better answer to make than as the collier , to say , i believe and dye in the faith of the church ; or of the prince , or of the learned ; for , being demanded what that faith is ? if he be not able to prove it by gods word , contained in the scriptures , it is no better nor other than the answer of the collier , the faith that i believe in . oh how many millions of souls in this nation , not papists but protestants , live and dye , and have never other faith than this , whereunto they are constrained and compelled by persecution , without either faith or knowledge . chap. . the interpreter of this rule is the scriptures , and spirit of god in whomsoever . the next thing , as the immediate question from this former , is , who must interpret this rule , because , as is objected , there are many dark places in it ( pet. ) hard to be understood . unto which we answer : the two witnesses of god shall be the onely interpreters therof ; which are , the word of god contained in the same scriptures , and the spirit of god , so are they called , joh. . , . act. . . first , for the scriptures themselves , though some doctrines in some places be dark and obscure , as peter speaketh , yet the self-same doctrines in other places are plain and manifest : for , all the words of the lord are plain to him that will understand , and streight to them that would find knowledge , pro. . . and knowledge is easie to him that will understand , prov. . . secondly , the spirit of god ; so saith the apostle , john . . it is the spirit that beareth witness : for the spirit is truth . and john . . but the comforter , which is the holy ghost , whom the father will send in my name , he shall teach you all things , and bring all things to your remembrance which i have told you . and joh , . . howbeit when he is come , which is the spirit of truth , he will lead you into all truth ; for he shall not speak of himself , but whatsoever he shall hear , shall he speak , and he will shew you of things to come . and cor. . . for the spirit searcheth all things , even the deep things of god. and ver . . for the things of god knoweth no man , but the spirit of god. and joh. . . but the anointing that ye have received of him , dwelleth in you , and ye need not that any man teach you , but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things , and it is true , and is no lye ; and even as it hath taught you , you shall abide in him. and joh. . . hereby we know that he abideth in us , even by the spirit that he hath given us . and cor. . . for to one is given by the spirit , the word of wisdom ; and to another the word of knowledge , by the same spirit . the scriptures be so plain in this , that the greatest adversaries thereof do acknowledge the truth of it : only herein lyeth the difficulty , who it is that hath this spirit of god to interpret the scriptures , which is this sure rule ? which in the next place is to be handled . chap. . that the spirit of god , to understand and interpret the scriptures , is given to all and every particular person , that fear and obey god , of what degree soever they be ; and not to the wicked . proved , psal . . . what man is he that feareth the lord , him will he teach the way that he shall chuse . and ver . the secret of the lord is revealed to them that fear him , and his covenant to give them understanding . and psal . . . who is wise that he may observe these things , he shall understand the loving-kindness of the lord. and dan , . . none of the wicked shall have understanding ; but the wise shall understand . for god will do nothing , but he revealeth his secrets to his servants , amos . . and psal . . , &c. i have had more understanding than all my teachers , and than all the antients ; because i kept thy precepts . for he that keepeth the law is a child of understanding , prov. . . and joh. . . if ye love me , keep my commandments , and i will pray the father , and he shall give you the spirit of truth . and ver . . if any man love me , he will keep my word , and my father and i will come unto him , and will dwell with him . and john . . if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god or no. and acts . . yea , and the holy ghost whom god hath given to all that obey him. and luke . . i will give you ( my disciples that obey me , and suffer for my sake ) a mouth , and wisdom , &c. and luke . . the holy ghost shall teach you what ye shall say : for , mat. . . it is not you that speak , but the spirit of my father that speaketh in you . and mark . . to you ( my followers ) is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of god ; but not to them that are without : for , the mystery of the gospel is made manifest to the saints , col. . . the church and saints of god have revealed unto them by the spirit , the things that eye hath not seen , &c. cor. . , . and they have received the spirit of god , that they might know the things that are given them of god. but the natural man perceiveth not the things of the spirit of god , for they are foolishness to him ; neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned : but he that is spiritual , discerneth all things , &c. ver . . hence is most plain to whom the spirit of god is given , even to every particular saint of god. and it is no private spirit , but even : the publick , spirit of god which is in him , which enableth him to understand , and so to declare the things given him of god , pet. . . that is a private spirit that is not of god , though it be in multitudes ; but the spirit of god , though but in one saint , is not private . gods spirit is not private , for it is not comprehended only within one place , person , or time , as mans is , but it is universal and eternal ; so is not mans : therefore mans is private , though they be many ; gods is publick , though but in one person . chap. . those that fear and obey god , and so have the spirit of god to search out and know the mind of god in the scriptures , are commonly and for the most part , the simple , poor , despised , &c. proved , mat. . . our saviour faith , the poor receive the gospel . and v. . i thank thee father , because thou hast opened these things unto babes ; it is so , o father , because thy good pleasure was such . and jam. . . hearken my beloved brethren , hath not god chosen the poor of this world , that they should be rich in faith , and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised ? &c. and cor. . , &c. brethren , you see your calling , that god hath chosen the foolish of this world , the weak of this world , the vile of this world and dispised , and which are not . gods dealing is , to give unto the simple sharpness of wit , and to the child knowledge and discretion , prov. . . the sprit bloweth where it listeth , john . . and is not tyed to the learned . poor persecuted micaiah had the truth against four hundred of king ahabs prophets , king. . so had jeremiah against all the priests and prophets of israel . the lord of life himself in his fleshly being , what was he but a man full of sorrows , in his birth laid in a cratch , because there was no room for him in the inne , luk , . . a carpenter by trade , mar. . . having not a hole to rest his head in , mat. . . and in his death contemned and dispised . his apostles in like manner , what were they but mean men , fishermen , tentmakers , and such like , having no certain dwelling-place , cor. . . which the worldly-wise scribes and pharises took notice of , and reproachfully said , joh. . . do any of the rulers , or of the pharisees believe in him ? but this people that know not the law are accursed , ver . . the truth of this is as plain as may be , that the scriptures being the rule of faith , perfect and absolute , and that the plainness of them is such , as by the spirit of god they may be easily understood of those that fear and obey god , but of none else , and that such are most commonly the poor and dispised ; for , if any man want wisdom ( be he never so simple ) let him ask of god , and he will give him , jam. . . which is also confirmed by humane testimonies . the protestants confess , whit. pag. . that in the primative church the doctrines and several points of religion , were known and discovered by the most mean of the people , and the bishops exhorted them thereunto , &c. also , pag. . that this rule is of that nature , that it is able to direct any man be he never so simple , yea , the most unlearned alive may conceive and understand it sufficiently for his salvation . and they relate the sayings of the ancient in this thing , pag. . first , clemens alexandrinus : the word is not hid from any , it is a common light that shineth unto all , there is no obscurity in it ; hear you it , you that be far off , and you that be nigh . next him , austin ; god hath bowed down the scriptures to the capacity of babes and sucklings , that when proud men will not speak to their capacity , yet himself might . after him , chrysostom ; the scriptures are easie to understand , and exposed to the capacity of every servant , and plowman , and widow , and boy , and him that is most unwise . therefore god penned the scriptures by the hands of publicans , fishermen , tentmakers , shepherds , neat-herds , and unlearned men , that none of the simple people might have any excuse to keep them from reading , and that so they might be easie to be understood of all men ; the artificer , the housholder and widow woman , and him that is most unlearned : yea , the apostles and prophets , as schoolmasters to all the world , made their writings plain and evident to all men , so that every man of himself , only by reading them , might learn the things spoken therein . next , justin martyr saith : hear the words of the scripture , which be so easie that it needs no exposition but only to be rehearsed . and this the protestants say was the perpetual and constant judgment of the antient church , &c. and further , pag. . he alledgeth theodoret who writ of his times , you shall every-where see these points of our faith to be known and understood , not only by such as are teachers in the church , but even of coblers , and smiths , and websters , and all kind of artificers ; yea , all our women , not they only which are book-learned , but they also that get their living with their needle ; yea , maid-servants and waiting-women ; and not citizens only , but husbandmen of the country are very skilful in these things : you may hear among us ditchers , and neat-herds , and wood-setters discoursing of the trinity and the creation , &c. the like is reported by others . and , say the protestants , his doctrine that was president in the trent-conspiracy , that a distaff was fitter for women than a bible , was not yet hatched , &c. oh it were well if the contempt of these pious practices were paled only within the romish profession , and were not practised in and among those that profess themselves to be separated there-from : as what is more frequent in the mouthes of many protestants , yea the bishops themselves , than these and such like words ; must every base fellow , cobler , taylor , weaver , &c. meddle with the exposition or discoursing of the scriptures , which appertains to none but to the learned ? yea , do they not forbid their own ministers to expound or discourse of the scriptures ? read their canon , which is ; no person whatsoever , not examined and approved by the bishop of the diocess , or not licensed , as is aforesaid , for a sufficient and convenient preacher , shall take upon him to expound in his own cure , or elsewhere , any scripture , or matter , or doctrine ; but shall only study to reade plainly and aptly ( without glozing or adding ) the homilies already set forth , or hereafter to be published by lawful authority , &c. so that not only jesus christ and his apostles ( who are alive in their doctrine , though not in their persons ) are forbidden all exposition of the holy scriptures , or matter , or doctrine , not being licensed by the bishops , but also their own ministers , who have sworn canonical obedience to them . yet when they are put to answer the papists , who practise the same thing , they take up both scriptures and antient writers to confute it . chap. . the learned in humane learning , do commonly and for the most part erre , and know not the truth , but persecute it and the professors of it ; and therefore are no further to be followed than we see them agree with truth . the next thing in order is , seeing the lord revealeth his secrets to the humble , though wanting humane learning , that we now prove on the contrary ; that god usually and for the most part hideth his secrets from the learned , and suffereth them to erre and resist the truth , yea so far , as to persecute it and the professors of it . and first , let us begin with the learned heathen , who were behind none in humane learning : the wise-men of egypt , how did they resist the glorious and powerful truth of god delivered by moses ? yea , they resisted it with such signs and lying wonders , that the heart of pharaoh and all his people were hardned against it , exod. . , , . and . . and what was the cause of babels destruction , but their trusting in the learned ? isa . . . thou art wearyed in the multitude of thy counself , &c. and isa . . . i destroy the tokens of thy southsayers , and make them that conjecture fools , and turn the wisemen backward , and make their knowledge follishness . the things of gods dealing none of the learned of egypt or babel could interpret , but joseph and daniel . next come to the learned priests and prophets of the jews , whose lips should have preserved knowledge , and at whose mouth the people should have sought the law : but saith the lord , mal. . , . they are gone out of the way , they have caused many to fall by the law , &c. also isa . . stay your selves and wonder ; they are blind , and make you blind ; they are drunken , but not with wine ; they stagger , but not with strong drink : for the lord hath convered you with a spirit of slumber , and hath shut up your eyes , the prophets , and your chief seers , &c : therefore the lord said , because this people come near to me with their mouth , and honour me with their lips , but have removed their heart far from me , and their fear towards me was taught by the precepts of men : therefore , behold , i will again do a marvallous work in this people , a marvellous work and a wonder ; for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish , and the understanding of the prudent shall be hid , &c. and isa . . , &c. their watchmen are all blind , they have no knowledge , &c. and these shepherds cannot understand , for they all look to their own way , every one for his own advantage , and for his own purpose . also jer. . , &c. the wise-men are ashamed ; they are afraid and taken : lo , they have rejected the word of the lord , and what wisdom is in them , &c. and jer. . , &c. and . . my people have been as lost sheep , their shepherds have caused them to go astray , and have turned them away to the mountains , &c. and micah . night shall be unto them for a vision , and darkness for a divination : the sun shall go down over the prophets , and the day shall be dark over them , &c. for they have no answer of god : they build up zion with blood , and jerusalem with iniquity , &c. and zeph. . . her prophets are light and wicked persons ; her priests have polluted the sanctuary , they have wrested the law. and in the time of our saviour , how had they made the commandments of god of no authority by their traditions , mat. . . and act. . . the rulers of jerusalem ( the high-priests , scribes and pharisees ) knew not christ , nor yet the words of the prophets , which they heard read every sabbath , but fulfilled them in condemning him . and our saviour saith , mat. . i thank thee father , lord of heaven and earth , because thou hast hid these things from the wise and men of understanding . and none of the pharisees nor rulers believed on him , joh , . . and cor. . . where is the wise ? where is the scribe ? where is the disputer of this world ? hath not god made the wisdom of this world follishness ? and ver . . not many wise men after the flesh , not many mighty , not many noble are called , &c. and for the learned since the time of our saviour ; the council of ephesus were where bishops : of seleucia where were bps , related by the protestants : how grievously did they erre , in decreeing the detestable error of arrianism ? who is ignorant ( knowing the histories ) that from time to time , both particular popes and general councils , have grosly erred in many things ? only one we will mention , passing by trent and others ; the council lateren we mean ( pope innocent , . ) which for universality was behind none , where were present patriarchs , archbishops metropolitans bishops , abbot , conventual priors , the legats of the greck and roman empire , besides the ambassadors and orators of the kings of jerusalem , france , spain , england , and cyprus . in this council it was decreed , that all hereticks , and so many as do in any point resist the catholick faith , should be condemned , &c. and also that the secular powers , of what degree soever they be , shall be compelled openly to swear for the defence of the faith , that they will to the uttermost of their power root out and destroy in all their kingdoms , all such persons as the catholick church hath condemned for hereticks : and if they do not , they shall be excommunicated . and if they do not reform within one whole year , then the pope may denounce all their subjects absolved , and utterly delivered from shewing or owing any fidelity or obedience towards them . again , that the pope may give that land , to be occupied and enjoyed of the catholicks to possess it , ( all hereticks being rooted out ) quietly and without any contradiction . tho. beacon in his reliques of rome , printed . and the protestands confess , that this imperfection hath hung so fast upon all councils and churches , that nazianzen saith , he never saw any council have a good end . thus are here sufficient testimonies proved from scriptures and experience , that the learned may , and have usually erred ; and therefore the holy scriptures often warn us , to beware of false prophets , for many are gone out into the world , mat. . and joh. . and will not your majesty , your highness , your honours , your worships , be pleased to consider of these things ? but will your selves submit the guidance of your souls to the learned spirituality , ( as they are called ) without due examination by the scriptures ? which if you will stil do , we can but bewail with the sorrows of our hearts ; and not so only , but will you with your power which god hath given you to use well , compel and constrain your subjects and underlings , to believe as the learned believe , not suffering us to reade or search the scriptures ? which if you abhor , as being the romish practice ; will you do that which is worse , letting us reade the scriptures , whereby we may know the will of our heavenly master , and have our consciences enlightned and convinced ; but not suffer us to practise that we learn and know ? whereby our sin and condemnation is made greater than the blind papists , as is proved , luke . . and not only so , but will you cons●●ain us to captivate our consciences , and practise in that , which in our ●●●ls we know to be evil , and contrary to the manifest law of the lord , and that only because the learned have so decreed , ( whom you acknowledge are subject to erre aswell as others ) or else lye in perpetual imprisonment , and be otherwise grievously persecuted ? may it please you to observe , that the church of rome seeth and acknowledgeth in words , that jesus christ is come in the flesh , and hath abolished the priesthood of aaron , and the legal sacrifieces ; but the jews see it not to this day , nay , the high-priests , scribes and pharisees saw it not , but for the publishing thereof persecuted christ the lord , and his apostles , unto the death ; calling their doctrine heresie , and them seditious enemies to caesar , &c. for the which we all justly condemn them for their wickedness , so often as we reade the holy history . and the church of england seeth and acknowledgeth divers damnable doctrines of the church of rome ; this among many , that the scriptures are not the only rule of faith , but that men ought to be constrained to believe as the church believes . the protestants see the iniquity of this , because they see and acknowledge all churches are subject to erre . but the learned papists see it not , but have decreed , that whosoever resisteth in any point shall be judged as an heretick , and suffer fire and faggot : and every temporal magistrate that doth not root such hereticks out of their dominions , shall be excommunicated ; and if he do not reform , he shall be expelled his earthly possessions , and his subjects freed from owing any fidelity or obedience towards him , &c. for the which height of iniquity , the protestants and we justly cry out against them for all the innocent blood that they have shed . and we see most manifestly , that what soever is not of faith is sin , rom. . . and without faith it is impossible to please god , heb. . . and therefore that no mortal man may make a law to the conscience , and force unto it by persecutions , and consequently may not compel unto any religion where faith is wanting , as hereafter more largely we prove . but the learned of this land see it not ( or rather will not practise it ) but for our not submitting herein , procure your temporal sword to persecute us , by casting us in prisons , where many of us have remained divers years in lingring imprisonment , deprived of all earthly comforts , as wives , children callings , &c. without hope of release , till our god ( for the practice of whose commandments we are thus persecuted ) perswade the hearts of your-majesty , your highness , your honours , your worships , to take pitty upon us , our poor wives and children , or his heavenly majesty release us by death . will not succeeding ages cry out against the cruelty of the learned protestants herein , aswell as they cry out against the cruelty of the learned jews and papists ? yes , we are assured they will , as many millions do in other nations at this day . the scriptures declare , the cause of the jews blindness was , not the obscurity of the scriptures , but that they winked with their eyes , lest they should see that which would deprive them of their honours and profits , as joh. . . and because , their fear towards god was taught by mens precepts , and because they looked to their own way , and to their own advantage , and had rejected the word of the lord ; and because they builded their zion with blood , and jerusalem with iniquity , and sought their own honour , and not gods , as before is proved . so the cause of the blindness of the learned papists , in denying the scriptures the only rule of faith , is not the obscurity of the scriptures , but their winding with their eyes , lest they should see that , that would bring them from their honours and profits , and all the forenamed in the jews . and also as the protestants well observe , whit. pag. . first , that they might make themselves judges in their own cause ; for who seeth not that if the church be the rule of faith , and their be the church , which way the verdict will go ? next , for that the greatest points of their religion have no foundation on the scriptures , &c. so that take away the scriptures , and establish their religion ; but establish the scriptures , and their religion vanisheth ; and that mother of whoredoms that glorified her self as a queen , rev. . shall be consumed ; and her merchants that were waxed rich through her pleasures and profits , shall wail and weep , the which they now seeing , shut their eyes , lest they should see that which would bring them from these honours , profits and pleasures . in like manner it may easily be judged by every indifferent man , that the cause why the learned of this land will not see , or at least practise , ( that seeing there is but one lord , eph. . . and one law-giver over the conscience , jam. . . therefore no man ought to be compelled by persecution , to a worship wherein he hath not faith ) is not the obscurity of the scriptures , but their winking with their eyes , lest they should see that that would take away their honours and profits ? for , if bribes blind the eyes of the wise , deut. . . then honours and profits much more : for , who seeth not , if none should be compelled by persecution to worship god in spirit and truth ( such only worship him , and none but such are required to worship him , joh. . . ) that these learned would lose their honours & profits , in being lords and law-makers over the conscience & souls of men : although your majesty might lawfully give them what temporal honours and profits your highness liked of . these are the true causes of the blindness of the learned : for so christ saith , : how can ye believe when ye seek honour one of another , and seek not the honour that cometh from god alone ? joh. . . and how can men but be blind in gods mysteries , when they look to their own way , for their own advantage , and for their own purpose ; for , having rejected the word of the lord , what wisdom is in them ? they have no answer of god , that build up their sion ( for so they account their churches and professions ) with blood , and jerusalem with iniquity , as before is proved . if these learned could free us from the lords wrath ; or , if they might answer for us , and we be free ; it were safe for us to submit our selves , and captivate our judgments and practice to them ; but seeing they cannot so much as deliver their own souls , and that if the blind lead the blind , both must fall into the ditch , mat. . . and , every one must give account of himself to god , and be judged by his own works done in the flesh , and that the soul that sinneth shall dye , we dare not follow any mortal man in matters of salvation further than we know him to agree with the meaning of god in the scriptures . paul the holy apostle of jesus christ , taught , that we should follow him no otherwise than he followed christ , cor. . . yea , christ himself sent men to the scriptures to try his doctrine . the apostles suffered their doctrine to be tryed , and commend them that try it . and the protestants confess , whit. pag. . this doctrine was never misliked , till a church rose up , whose silver being dross , and whose milk , poyson , could not endure the tryal : which being true , that we may try , why may we not also judge and practise according as gods spirit shall direct us in our tryal ? if a man should drink poison , and know it to be poison , were he not in a worse estate than he that should drink it ignorantly not knowing thereof ? even a murderer of himself in the highest degree : so he that drinketh spiritual poison , knowing it , ( for according unto mens faith it is unto them ) he is in a worse estate , and a murderer of his own soul in the highest degree . and therefore that church , or those learned , that will suffer their doctrine to be tryed , and yet constrain men to receive and practise it , when upon examination their consciences are convinced of the falshood thereof , are worse , and do more highly sin , than they that constrain a blind conscience , though both be evil . we despise not learning , nor learned men , but do reverence it and them , according to their worthiness ; only when it is advanced into the seat of god , and that given to it which appertaineth unto the holy ghost , which is to lead into all truth , than ought all , as ezekiah did unto the brazen serpent , detest it and contemn it . chap. , persecution for cause of conscience , is against the doctrine of jesus christ , king of kings . . christ commanded that the tares and wheat ( which are those that walk in the truth , and those that walk in falshood ) should be let alone in the world , and not plucked up until the harvest , which is the end of the world , mat. . , , &c. . the same commandeth , mat. . . that they that are blindly led on in false religion , and are offended with him for teaching true religion , should be let alone , referring their punishment unto their falling into the ditch . . again , luke . , . he reproved his disciples ( who would have had fire come down from heaven and devoured those samaritans that would not receive him ) in these words , ye know not of what spirit ye are : the son of man is not come to destroymens lives , but to save them . . paul the apostle of our lord teacheth , tim. . . that the servant of the lord must not strive , but must be gentle towards all men , suffering the evil men , instructing them with meekness that are contrary-minded ; proving if god at any time will give them repentance , that they may acknowledge the truth , and come to amendment out of the snare of the devil , &c. . according to these aforesaid commandments , the holy prophets foretold , that when the law of moses concerning worship should cease , and christs kingdom be established , then all carnal weapons should cease , isa . . . micah . , . they shall break their swords into mattocks , and their spears into sithes , &c. and isa . . . then shall none hurt nor destroy in all the mountain of my holiness , &c. and when he came , the same he taught and practised as begore , so did his apostles after him ; for the weapons of his warfare are not carnal , &c. cor. . . but he charged strictly , that his disciples should be so far from persecuting those that would not be of their religion , that when they were persecuted they should pray , mat. . when they were cursed , they should bless : the reason is , because they that are now tares may hereafter become wheat : tehy who are now blind , may hereafter see ; they that now resist him , may hereafter receive him ; they that are now in the devils snare , in adversness to the truth , may hereafter come to repentance ; they that are now blasphemers , persecutors & oppressors , as paul was , may in time become faithful as he ; they that are now idolaters , as the corinths once were , cor. . . may hereafter become true worshippers as they ; they that are now no people of god , nor under mercy , as the saints sometimes were , pet. . . may hereafter become the people of god , and obtain mercy as they . some come not till the eleventh hour , mat. . . if those that come not till the last hour should be destroyed because they came not at the first , then should they never come , but be prevented . and why do men call themselves christians , and do not the things christ would ? chap. . persecution for cause of conscience , is against the profession and practice of famous princes . first , we beseech your majesty we may relate your own worthy sayings , in your majesties speech at parliament , . your highness saith , it is a sure rule in divinity , that god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloodshed , &c. and in your highness apol. pag. . speaking of such papists as took the oath , thus : i gave a good proof that i intended no persecution against them for conscience cause , but only desired to secured for civil obedience , which for conscience cause they were bound to perform . and pag. . speaking of blackwel the arch-priest , your majesty saith , it was never my intention to lay any thing to the said arch-priests charge , as i have never done to any for cause of conscience , &c. and in your highness expos . on revel . . printed , and after . your majesty truly writeth thus : sixtly , the compassing of the saints , and besieging of the beloved city , declareth unto us a certain note of a false church to be persecution ; for they come to seek the faithful , the faithful are those that are sought : the wicked are the besiegers , the faithful be besieged . secondly , the saying of stephen king of poland : i am king of men , not of consciences ; a commander of bodies , not of souls , &c. thirdly , the king of bohemia hath thus written : and notwithstanding the success of the later time , wherein sundry opinions have been hatched about the subject of religion , may make one clearly discern with his eye , and ( as it were ) touch with his finger , that according to the verity of holy scripture , and a maxime heretofore held and maintained by the ancient doctors of the church , that mens consciences ought in no sort to be violated , urged or constrained ; and whensoever men have attempted any thing by this violent course , whether openly or by secret means , the issue hath been pernicious , and the cause of great and wonderful innovasions in the principallest and mightiest kingdoms and countries of all christendom , &c. and further his majesty saith , so that once more we do protest before god and the whole world , that from this time forward we are firmly resolved , not to persecute or molest , or suffer to be persecuted or molested any person whosoever for matter of religion , no not they that profess themselves to be of the roman church , neither to trouble or disturb them in the exercise of their religion , so they live conformable to the laws of the states , &c. and for the practice of this , where is persecution for cause of conscience , except in england , and where popery reigns ? and not there neither in all places , as appeareth by france , poland , and other places ; nay , it is not practised among the heathen that acknowledge not the true god , as the turk , persian and others . chap. . persecution for cause of conscience , is condemned by the ancient and later writers , yea , by puritans and papists . hillary against anxentius , saith thus : the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted ; and lamentable it is to see the great folly of these times , and to sigh at the foolish opinion of this world , in that men think by humane aid to help god , and with worldly pomp and power to undertake to defend the christian church . i ask of you bishops , what help used the apostles in the publishing of the gospel ? with the aid of what power did they preach christ , and converted the heathen from their idolatry to god ? when they were imprisoned and lay in chains , did they praise and give thanks to god for any dignities , graces and favours received from the court ? or , do you think that paul went about with regal mandates , or kingly authority to gather and establish the church of christ ? sought he protection from nero vespatian ? &c. the apostles wrought with their hands for their own maintenance , travelling by land and water from town to city to preach christ ; yea , the more they were forbidden , the more they taught and preached christ . but now alas , humane help must assist and protect the faith , and give the same countenance ; to , and by vain and worldly honours do men seek to defend the church of christ , as if he by his power were unable to perform it . the same , against the arians : the church now which formerly by enduring misery and imprisonment , was known to be a true church , doth now terrific others , by imprisonment , banishment , and misery , and boasteth that she is highly esteemed of the world ; whereas the true church cannot but be hated of the same . tertul. ad scapul . it agreeth both with humane equity and natural reason , that every man worship god uncompelled , and believe what he will ; for , another mans religion or blief neither hurteth nor profiteth any man : neither beseemeth it any religion , to compel another to be of their religion , which willingly and freely should be imbraced , and not by constraint : for asmuch as the offerings were required of those that freely and with a good will offered , and not from the contrary . jerom. in proaem lib. . in jeremiam . heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit ; let us strike through with the arrows of the spirit all sons and disciples of misled hereticks , that is with testimonies of holy scriptures : the slaughter of hereticks is by the word of god. brentius on cor. . no man hath power to make ( or give ) laws to christians , whereby to bind their consciences : for willingly , freely , and uncompelled , with a ready desire and chearful mind must those that come , run unto christ . luther in his book of the civil magistrate . the laws of the civil government extends no further than over the body or goods , and to that which is external : for , over the soul god will not suffer any man to rule , only he himself will rule there : therefore wheresoever the civil magistrate doth undertake to give laws unto the soul and consciences of men , he usurpeth that government to himself which appertaineth to god , &c. the same upon king. . in building of the temple there was no sound of iron heard , to signifie that christ will have in his church a free and willing people , not compelled and constrained by laws and statutes . again , he saith upon luke . it is not the true catholick church which is defended by the seculare arm or humane power , but the false and feigned church ; which although it carries the name of a church , yet it denyes the power thereof . and upon psal . . he saith , for the true church of christ knoweth not brachium seculare , which the bishops now a dayes chiefly use . again , in postil . dom. . post . epiph. he saith , let not christians be commanded , but exhorted ; for he that will not willingly do that whereunto he is friendly exhorted , he is no christian : therefore those that do compel them that are not willing , shew thereby that they are not christian preachers , but worldly beadles . again , upon pet. . he saith , if the civil magistrate would command me to believe thus or thus , i should answer him after this manner ; lord , or sir , look you to your civil or worldly government , your power extends not so far , to command any thing in gods kingdom , therefore herein i may not hear you : for if you cannot suffer that any man should usurp authority where you have to command , how do you think that god should suffer you to thrust him from his seat , and to seat your self therein ? the puritans , as appeareth in their answer to admonit . to parl. pag. . that papists nor others , neither constrainedly nor customally communicate in the mysteries of salvation . also in their supplication , printed , , pag. , &c. much they write for toleration . lastly , the papists , the inventers of persecution ; in a wicked book lately set forth , thus they write : moreover , the means which almighty god appointed his officers to use in the conversion of kingdoms and people , was , humility , patience , charity , &c. saying , behold , i send you as sheep in the midst of wolves , mat. . . he did not say , i send you as wolves among sheep , to kill , imprison , spoil and devour those unto whom they were sent . again , ver . . he saith , they to whom i send you will deliver you up in councils , and in their synagogues they will scourge you ; and to presidents and to kings shall you be led for my sake : he doth not say , you whom i send shall deliver the people ( whom you ought to convert ) into councils , and put them in prisons , and lead them to presidents and tribunal seats , and make their religion felony and treason . again , he saith , ver . . when ye enter into the house , salute it , saying , peace be to this house : he doth not say , you shall send pursevants to sansack and spoyl the house . again , lie saith , joh. . the good pastor giveth his life for his sheep ; the thief cometh not , but to steal , kill and destroy : he doth not say , the thief giveth his life for his sheep , and the good pastor cometh not but to steal , kill and destroy , &c. so that we holding our peace , our adversaries themselves speak for us , or rather for the truth . chap. . it is no prejudice to the commonwealth if freedom of religion were suffered , but would make it flourish . be pleased not to hearken to mens leasings , but to what god and experience teacheth in this thing : abraham abode among the canaanites a long-time , yet contrary to them in religion , gen. . , and . . again , he sojourned in gerar , and king abimelech gave him leave to abide in his land , gen. , & . , . isaac also dwelt in the same land , yet contrary in religion , gen. . jacob lived twenty years in one house with his uncle laban , yet differed in religion , gen. . the people of israel were years in that famous land of egypt , and afterwards years in babylon , all which times they differed in religion from the states ; exod. . and chron. . come to the time of christ , where israel was under the romans , where lived divers sects of religions , as herodians , scribes and pharifees , saduces , libertines , theudaeans , samaritans , besides the common religion of the jews , christ and his apostles , all which differed from the common religion of the state , which ( is like ) was the worship of diana , which almost the whole world then worshipped , act. . . all these lived under the government of caesar , being nothing-hurtfull to the state and commonwealth ; for they gave unto caesar that which was his ; and for religion to god , he left them to themselves , as having no dominion therein . and when the enemies of the truth raised up any tumults , the wisdom of the magistrates most wisely appeased them , as acts . , &c. and . , &c. again , be pleased to look into the neighbour nations who tolerate religion , how their wealths and states are governed ; many sorts of religions are in their dominions , yet no trouble of state , no treason , no hinderance at all of any good , but much prosperities brought unto their countries , they having all one harmony in matters of state , giving unto caesar his due , and for religion they suffer one another . if any object the troubles of france , germany , &c. we answer : they are such as have been procured by the learned , but most bloody jesuites , who seek to establish their religion by blood , for subversion of whom your wisdoms are wise to deal in : yet be pleased not to let faithful subjects be punished for their wickedness : but let most severe laws be made for the maintenance of civil and humane peace and welfare , as to your majesty and others shall seem expedient . and if it be well observed , it is the learned that raised up all the bloody wars among the princes of the earth . chap. . king are not deprived of any power given them of god , when they maintain freedom for cause of conscience . we know the learned do perswade that kings have power from god to maintain the worship and service of god , as they have power to maintain right and justice between man and man ; for christian kings ( say they ) have the same power , that the kings of israel had under the law. for answer to which , first , let it be observed , the kings of israel had never power from god to make new laws , or set up new worships which gods word required not ; nor to set high priests , or spiritual lords for the performance of the services , other than such as god by moses expresly had commanded ; and therefore the power of the kings of israel will warrant to kings to make or confirm canons , set up new worships , and appoint spiritual lords and law givers to the conscience , and persecute all that submit not to them , . let it be well observed , only the kings of israel had this power , but no other kings , whose commonwealths did flourish to them and their seeds after them to many generations : and it must be granted that he that is king of israel now , which is jesus christ , ( the truth of those typical kings of israel ) he hath the power according to the proportion ; the temporal kings had temporal power to compel all to the observation of those carnal or temporal commandments , heb. . . and . . so christ the spiritual king , hath spiritual power to compel all to the observation of his spiritual commandments ; for when he came , himself said , joh. . . the hour cometh , and now is , when the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit and in truth ; for the father requireth even such to worship him . if christ be only king of israel , that sits upon davids throne for ever , as he is , acts . . far be it from any king to take christs seat from him . the wisdom of god foresaw , that seeing the misteries of the gospel are such spiritual things , as no natural men ( though they be princes of this world ) can know them ; he left not kings and princes to be lords and judges thereof , seeing they are subject to erre , but he left that power to his beloved son , who could not erre ; and the son left his only deputy the holy ghost , and no moral man whatsoever , as your highness worthily acknowledgeth , in apol. pag. . i utterly deny that there is any earthly monarch over the church whose word must be a law , and who cannot erre by an infallibility of spirit . because earthly kingdoms must have earthly monarchs , it doth not follow the church must have a visible monarch too . christ is the churches monarch , and the holy ghost his deputy . the kings of the gentiles reign over them ; but you shall not be so , &c. luke . christ when he ascended left not peter with them to direct them into all truth , but premised to send the holy ghost unto them for that end , &c. further , these learned alledge the commandments , exod. . . deut. . and deut. . where israel are commanded to destroy all the inhabitants of the land , lest they intice them to serve their gods ; and to slay all false prophets , &c. these they collect from the time of the law , for in the time of the gospel they have nothing to alledge ; for , rom. . maketh nothing for their purpose , caesar being a heathen king. for answer unto the places of moses : first , the sins of this people the canaanites were full , and the lord would destroy them , and give their possessions unto the israelites ; but the sins of the refusers of christ , are not full until the end , or last hour , as before is proved . . the children of israel had a special commandment from the lord to destroy them ; but the kings of the nations have no command at all to destroy the bodies of the contrary-minded ; nay , they are expresly forbidden it , mat. . . . the canaanites would have rebelled against israel , and have des ; troyed them ; but the contrary-minded will not rebell against their kings , but give unto them the things that belong unto them ; not so much for fear , as of conscience : and of this the god of gods is witness . . the heads and rulers of israel could command and compel the people to observe those carnal rites and ordinances of the law ; even as christ the head and ruler of israel can compel to the observations of his spiritual ordinances of the gospel ; but the heads of the nations cannot compel their subjects to believe the gospel ; for faith is the gift of god ; which faith if they want , all they do in gods worship is sin , rom. . . heb. . . therefore they cannot compel any to worship , because they cannot give them faith ; for which cause the lord in wisdom saw it not meet to charge kings with a duty which they cannot perform , god will never require it at their hands ; the blood of the faithless and unbelieving shall be on their own heads ; he that will not believe shall be damned , mark . . again , seeing it is true , as your majesty well observeth in your highness speech at parl. . that the judicials of moses were only fit for that time , and those persons : and also it is confessed , the law for adultery , theft , and the like , is not now to be executed according to the judicials of moses , nor directions for the magistrates of the earth to walk by ; why should these be any directions for them , seing also our savior and his apostles have taught the contrary , as before hath been proved ? if all false prophets should be now executed , according to deut. . the kings of the earth would not onely be deprived of many of their subjects ; but the cities of their habitation , with all the inhabitants of the cities , must be destroyed with the edge of the sword ; the cattel thereof , and all the spoyl thereof must be brought into the midst of the city , and the city and all therein by burnt with fire , be made a heap of stones for ever , and never be built again : which god forbid such execration should ever be seen . and if these judicials of moses be not now directions for the kings of nations , we reade not in all the book of god , any directions given to kings to rule in matters of conscience and spiritual worship to god : but often we reade that the kings of the nations shall give their power to the beast , and fight against the lamb , rev. . . and . , , , , . and . , . and . . as lamentable experience hath plainly taught it . thus all men may see there is only deceit in these learned mens comparisons of the kings of israel in the law , with the kings of nations in time of the gospel , in matters of religion . much might be written to prove , that kings are not deprived of their power by permitting of freedom of religion , but are rather deprived thereof by using compulsion to the contrary-minded , and do sin grievously , in causing them to sin for want of faith ; but this may suffice , the almighty blessing it with his blessing , which we humbly-beseech him for his christs sake , for his own glory sake , for the prosperity and welfare of these kingdoms , and for the comfort of your faithful and true-hearted subjects , that are now distressed by long and lingring imprisonments and otherwise ; who of conscience give unto caesar the things which are his , which is , to be lord and law-giver to the bodies of his subjects , and all belonging to their outward-man , for the preservation of himself , and his good subjects , and for the punishment of the evil ; in which preservation , the church of christ hath a special part , when their outward peace is thereby preserved from the fury of all adversaries ; in which respect princes are called nursing fathers , as many are at this day , blessed be our lord. oh be pleased to consider , why you should persecute us for humbly beseeching you in the words of the king of kings , mat. . . to give unto god the things which are gods ; which is , to be lord and law-giver to the soul in that spiritual worship and service which he requireth : if you will take away this from god , what is it that is gods ? far be it from you to desire to sit in the consciences of men , to be law-giver and judge therein . this is antichrists practice , perswading the kings of the earth to give him their power to compel all hereunto : but whosoever submitteth , shall drink of gods fierce wrath revel . . , . you may make and mend your own laws , and be judge and punisher of the transgressors , thereof ; but you cannot make or mend gods laws , they are perfect already , psal . . . you may not adde nor diminish , deut. . . rev. . , . nor be judge , nor monarch of his church , that is christs right ; he left neither you , nor any mortal man his deputy , but only the holy ghost , as your highness acknowledgeth , and whosoever erreth from the truth , his judgment is set down , thess . . , &c. rom. . , &c. and the time thereof , matth. . . and . , &c. rom. . . this is the sum of our humble petition , that your majesty would be pleased , not to persecute your faithful subjects ( who are obedient to you in all civil worship and service ) for walking in the practice of what gods word requireth of us , for his spiritual worship , as we have faith ; knowing ( as your majesty truly writeth in your medit. on mat. . pag. . in these words ) we can use no spiritual worship or prayer , that can be available to us without faith. this is the sum of our most humble petition , thus manifoldly proved to be just . o lord god of glory , raise up in this high assembly , the heart of some nehemiah , of some ebed-melech , that may open their mouthes ( for the dumb , that cannot speak for themselves ) in a truth so apparant as this is , lest it be said , as isa . . , and when he saw that there was no man , he wondred that none would offer himself ; therefore his arm did save it , and his righteousness it self did sustain it . and now we cease not to pray for the king , and his son , and his seed , and this whol high and honourable assembly , now and alwayes , calling the all-seeing god to witness , that we are your majesties loyal subjects not for fear only , but for conscience sake . unjustly called , ana-baptists pax vobis, or, gospel and liberty against ancient and modern papists / by a preacher of the word. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) pax vobis, or, gospel and liberty against ancient and modern papists / by a preacher of the word. brown, s. j. gordon, john, - . griffith, evan, a.m., minister of alderly. the fifth edition corrected and amended. [ ], p. s.n.], [s.l. : . other editions read: by e.g. a preacher of the word. variously attributed to evan griffith, s.j. brown, and john clement gordon. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed 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and xml conversion pax vobis : or , gospel and liberty : against ancient and modern papists . by a preacher of the word . the fifth edition , corrected and amended . stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ hath made us free , and be not entangl'd again with the yoke of bondage , ( popery . ) gal. c. . v. . printed , anno dom. . the preface to the children of the reformation . be not concerned to know whose hand it is which holds the link , but follow the light it gives : reach your hand to receive this treatise , which marks the shore , where the ark of our reformation , shatter'd by a deluge of troubles , may rest ; which is a holy liberty to all and each person to believe or not believe , act or not act as he pleases , with a safe conscience , according to the principles of our reformation . we generally lament the convulsions which shake our church and state , through the diversity of opinions , professed by our several congregations ; some remedies have been applied to bring us to peace and conformity ; but all have proved ineffectual ; some of our doctors judge nothing can cure our disease , but a general council or supream authority , to whose sentence we should all submit ; but this , besides that it is popish , to grant any human power for to oblige our consciences against our judgments in matters of religion , is but an imaginary remedy for a real evil : for , it 's not in the reformation as in popery ; in this there is a supream authority for to convene the pastors of divers kingdoms to a general council , in our reformation there is none ; popery believes it's councils and popes infallible ; and therefore they cannot but acquiesce , because an infallible sentence leaves no doubt of the truth ; but in the reformation , all councils and human authority are fallible ; and consequently their decisions may be doubted of , and we are never certain of the truth . others judge , the remedy of our disease can be no other , but pills of persecution penal laws , acts of parliament , ordinances of synods , forcing men to conformity ; but this has proved not only destructive to the peace of the church but has shockt the very foundation of our reformation : for if we must believe under severe penalties what the state and ecclesiastical authority will have us believe ; then scripture must be no more our rule of faith , but the state and church ; which tells me what i must believe ; and we must be deprived of the right and power of interpreting scripture and believing it in the sense we think to be true ; and yet our whole reformation is cemented and was first raised upon this holy liberty ; that every one should read scripture , interpret it ; and believe whatever he thought was the true sense of it ; without any compulsion or constraint for to believe either church ▪ state , vniversity , or doctors , if we did not judge by scripture his doctrine was true . if prudence had as great a share in our conduct , as passion , we should regulate our future by the effects of our past actions ; and if we will cast an eye back to the transactions of later years , we shall find this compulsion of mens consciences has produced but confusion in our church , and fatal disturbances in our state ; contrarywise , never did our reformation enjoy more peace , shin'd with more lustre , and held its course with more happiness , than when none was molested for his profession , but every one had liberty to believe and teach , what dectrine and sense each one thought to be the most conformable to scripture . consider the infancy of the reformation , when god raised luther to repair the ruines of the church ; how of a sudden it spred it self in germany , france , holland , poland , scotland , and england , and by what means ? was it not by taking away all constraint of mens consciences ( used then only in the popish church , ) our blessed reformers taking to themselves and giving to others a holy liberty for to teach and believe whatever they judged to be the doctrine and true sense of scripture , tho it should be against the received opinion of the councils , church , vniversities and doctors ? look into the reign of edward the vi. then did our reformation flourish in england ; and was miraculously propagated by the liberty of martin , bucer , cranmer , ochinus , peter martyr , and others in teaching calvinism , lutheranism , zuinglianism , by scripture as every one understood it : descend to the reign of queen mary , then the light of the gospel was ecclipsed , because the flock was again popishly compelled to believe , not what they judged by scripture to be true ; but what the pope and church judged was such : come down a step lower to queen elizabeth's time , then the flock recovering that holy liberty for to believe what each one thought was the doctrine of scripture , the reformation gained ground ; our several congregations lived peaceably ; for tho protestancy was establisht the religion of the land , others were not oppressed ; nor their liberty constrained by compulsions : step down a degree lower to king james his time ; the reformation held its course as prosperously as in queen elisabeth's time , because mens consciences were not oppressed ; all reformed brethren had full liberty to believe as they pleased ; the protestancy was the religion of the king : look down a stop lower to king charles the first 's reign ; his majesty carried with a godly zeal of restraining the diversity of opinions , begot by the liberty enjoyed in his predecessors times , would by new laws and ordinances force the flock to an vniformity of doctrine ; but our zealous brethren the presbyterians , impatient of any constraint in affairs of religion , and pleading for the evangelical liberty of our reformation , for to believe nothing , nor use any rites or ceremonies , but as each one judged by scripture to be convenient ; they covenanted against his majesty and bishops ; and the storm grew to that height , that both church and state were drown'd almost in the blood of our reformed brethren : lastly , look upon our realm as it is at present , the symptoms of disatisfactions which you may read and hear in coffee-houses , in publick and private conversations ; the sparkles of jealousies , which appear in our land ; the cabals against our government ; the animosity of divided parties ; the murmur and complaints of all ; what 's all this but the smoke of that hidden fire of zeal , wherewith protestants would force presbyterians by penal laws , to profess their tenets , presbyterians exclaim against protestancy as against popery ; quakers judge both to be limbs of satan ; anabaptists look on all three , as children of perdition ; and no congregation would give liberty for to profess any tenets but its own ; in so much that if you consider all well , each of our congregations , are as severe tyrants over our judgments and consciences , as popery was , and our reformation comes to be in effect but an exchange of one italian pope , for many english ones : for as in popery , we must submit our judgments to the pope and church of rome , or be esteemed putrid rotten members , and be shut out of heavens gates ; and suffer inquisitions , persecutions , excommunications , and what not , so among us , you must believe scripture as interpreted by the church of england , or you are condemned by them , you must believe scripture as interpreted by the presbyterians , or you are accursed by them you must believe as anabaptists do , or you are damn'd by them ; and not one congregation among us , but would root all the others out of the world , if it could ; and we do not fear that danger whereof st. paul , gal. . . warns us , if we bite and devour one another , let 's take heed , we be not consumed one of another ; giving us likewise a wholsom advice in the same place , how to prevent this evil ; stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ has made us free , and be not intangled again with the yoke of bondage : the world did groan under this heavy yoke in popery ; wherein our rule of faith , was scripture as interpreted by the pope and church : scripture was kept from the hand of the flock : no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it , but what the pope , church , and fathers did approve : our reason , our judgments , our consciences were slaves under this yoke , until that god raised our glorious and blessed reformers luther , calvin , zuinglius , beza and others : who took a holy liberty , and gave us all liberty for to read and interpret scripture : to believe no doctrine , but what we judged to be true scripture : to believe any sense of it , which we judged to be true , tho contrary to all the world : they took for their rule of faith scripture , and nothing else but scripture , as each one of them understood it ; this same rule of faith they left to us , and a holy freedom and liberty of our judgments and consciences , that any man of sound judgment may hold and believe whatever sense of it , he thinks to be true . this therefore is the scope and end of my following treatise ; that , whereas our rule of faith , as i will prove by the unanimous consent of our whole reformed church , is scripture or gods written word , as interpreted by each person of sound judgment ; that whereas by the principles of our reformation , no man is to be constrained to believe any doctrine against his judgment and conscience : ( otherwise why were not we left in popery ) it is impious , tyrannical , and quite against the spirit of the reformation , to force us by acts of parliament , decrees of synods , invectives , and persecutions of indiscreet brethren , to embrace this or that religion ; that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he pleases ; if you think bigamy to be the doctrine of scripture : if you think by scripture there is one nature , and four persons in god ; if you think transubstantiation to be true ; if you judge by god's words there 's neither purgatory nor hell ; finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture , you are bound as a true reformed child , to believe it ; that it is quite against the spirit of reformation to censure , oppose or blame the doctrine or tenets of any congregation , or of any doctor of the reformed church ; because that any doctrine professed by any christian-congregation , whatever ( the popish excepted ) or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the reformation , since the beginning of it , until this day , is as truly and really the doctrine of the reformation , as the figurative presence or kings supremacy is . consequently protestants are deservedly to be check'd for persecuting quakers ; quakers , for murmuring against presbyterians : these for their invectives against anabaptists and socinians : all are very good ; and you may lawfully , according to the principles of our reformation , believe them , or deny them . this evangelical liberty of believing any thing , which we judg to be the sense of scripture , though all the rest of the world should judge it to be a blasphemy , is the most distinctive sign of the reformation from popery : for papists are the children of agar the slave ; they live in bondage and constraint to believe any doctrine , which the pope and church proposes to them ; and if a learned man , or vniversity should judge it to be contrary to scripture , he must submit his judgment to that of the pope , or be condemn'd as an heretick : in our reformation we are the children of sarah the free ; our rule of faith is scripture as each person of sound judgment in the church understands ; if we do not like the doctrine of the pope , church or council , we may gainsay them all , and hold our own sense of scripture : we enjoy the prerogative of rational creatures we are lead by our own reason , which god has given us for our conduct , and are not like beasts , constrained to follow that of others . we follow the rule given us by s. paul , rom. . he who eats , let him not despise him who does not eat ; and who does not eat , let him not despise him who does eat ; for god hath received him : that 's to say , he who believes , let him not check him who does not believe , as he does : and he who does not believe , let him not blame him who does believe : but let each one believe , or not belive as he thinks best in the lord : this holy liberty and freedom is the spirit of god , for , where the spirit of god is , there is liberty , cor. . says the great apostle : the lord inspire to our parliament , that now sits upon a perfect and new settlement of government and religion , to follow the footsteps of our first renowned reformers : to enact that there may be no other rule of faith , but that which we received from our reformers , and which is laid down for us in the , articles of the church of england : that is , scripture , as each one best understands it , without regarding the judgment , sense , or interpretation of any but the pure word of god , as we understand it : and to enact penal laws against any so bold and uncharitable as to censure or blame the tenets of any congregation , be it lutheranism , presbytery , arianism , judaism , or paganism : or any doctrine whatever , that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and doctrine of scripture . three things make me hope , that this treatise will be welcome to the well inclined and pious reader of our reformed church : first , that there is not one author quoted in this book , but our own doctors , learned and godly children of the reformation ; and this i observe , that my reader may know there 's not a jot of any doctrine here but what is of the reformati●n ; and also advertise our writers and school-men , how much they discredit our reform'd church , by making so much use of popish doctors and books in their writings ; as if we had not great and learned men of our own ; if we look into our bishops and ministers libraries , we shall meet with books either of confessedly papists , or strongly suspected of popery ; and you shall hardly meet in any of them , the works of luther , calvin , beza , or any of our own authors , if you do not meet some comedies , or romances : if you read our modern writers , you shall find their books to be stuft with arguments stolen from strapleton , peron , bellarmin , and other popish doctors , whereas they ought to take their doctrine from luther , calvin , and our other first reformers , apostles raised by gods heavenly spirit : oracles by whose mouths and pens he delivered the pure and orthodox doctrine of the gospel ; heavenly fountains , from which we ought to drink the doctrine of the reformation : therefore , i have made a particular study , for the comfort of my reader , not to profane this treatise with any quotation of any popish writers , none but our own doctors . secondly my reader will be pleased with this treatise , because i do not oblige him to believe the contents of it : if he mislikes any doctrine couched in this book , let him not believe it ; what i pretend is , to maintain his liberty for to believe , or not believe what he pleases , and that none can say black is his eye , for believing whatever he judges to be the sence of scripture ; let all others think of it what they will ; for our rule of faith , as i will prove , being scripture as each person understands it , who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you understand scripture to say ? some doctrines there are in this book delivered by luther , calvin , zuinglius , beza , and others ; which our church of england , and some others do call blasphemies , and scandalous tenets ; and their irreverence and arrogance it run so far , as to condemn those blessed men , for teaching such tenets , and say , that they swerved from the truth ; and had their frailties , insomuch , that many of us are ashamed to own those great men to have been our reformers and leaders : this is an impiety altogether insupportable , it cannot be suffered with patience , that such apostolical men , who were undeniably our first masters of the reformation , should be so vilified and abused : therefore i do prove , that there 's no doctrine delivered by them , but is to be esteemed and called the doctrine of the reformation : and can be according to the principles of the reformed church , believed and taught by any reformed child : for what is our rule of faith in the reformation , but scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it ? consequently what is the doctrine of the reformation , but what any person of sound judgment understands to be of scripture ? whatever doctrine therefore luther , calvin , or others judged to be of scripture , how can you deny it to be the doctrine of the reformation , or blame them for teaching and believing it ? if you do not like ; the most , you can in justice do , is not to believe it : but you cannot justly say it 's not the doctrine of the reformation , because it 's scripture as understood by persons of good judgment : nor can you in justice blame them , or any other for believing it , if they like it : for must not we believe , what we judge in our consciences to be the doctrine of scripture ? lastly , my reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this treatise : as much as we are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our modern writers , whose aim and scope in the books they give out , seem to be nothing else but to say somewhat , whereby they may be thought to be no papists , and nothing is less found in their writings , than the pure and orthodox doctrine of the reformation : and what is to be bemoaned , that you 'll hardly see in the houses or hands of the flock the works of luther , calvin , or our other first reformers , they are hid from us , to keep us in ignorance of the true reformed doctrine , and we see but bramhall , tillotson , taylor , stillingfleet , thorndike , and such others , whose doctrine is neither popery , nor of the reformation , but a new compound of both ; they do so mangle the questions controverted with their scholastical subtilities and distinctions , as if they were ashamed to own openly our tenets , and did endeavour to get the opinion of moderate sober men with the papists , by drawing as near as their interest can permit them to their doctrine . ask them if we be obliged to believe the doctrine and sense of scripture , delivered by a general council ; our first reformers resolved roundly that we are not : nay luther says expresly we are bound to gainsay , and work against the decrees of any council : but our modern doctors answer with a pretty distinction , there 's a a civil obligation , quoth one , but no obligation in conscience . there 's an obligation in conscience , says another , provided you do not believe they are infallible : you may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively , says another , but not subjectively : they are infallible in fundamental points , says another , but not in inferior truths . another will come yet , and say they are absolutely infallible in all articles , and thus by little and little the papists gain ground against us , and the lustre of our reformation is clouded by the cowardliness , or insincerity , or hypocrisie of our modern teachers . kings . how long halt ye between two opinions ? if the lord be god , follow him : but if baal , then follow him . luther , calvin , beza , and our other first reformers were raised by god to teach us the purity of the gospel : let us not be ashamed to follow their doctrine : to speak , preach , and believe as they did : therefore , i do propose the doctrine in this treatise in its native colours , that if you like it , you may believe it , and if any be so bold as to say , you believe false or scandalous doctrine , you must answer ; it 's the doctrine of the reformation , because it 's scripture as understood by persons of judgment , and the greatest oracles we had : and if you do not like it , you may deny it , but beware never to blame or check any other for believing it : this is the holy liberty of the gospel and of our primitive reformation . first dialogue . ismael . i have read your preface and principles , and methinks you drive to establish a new religion ; for that unlimited liberty , which you assert for to believe or not believe , whatever we please with a safe conscience , is not allowed by any of our reformed congregations ; and it were to be wish'd , you should rather stick to some one of the congregations now established , than to erect a new one , for we have but too many already . isaac . the lord forbid i should think or speak otherwise than as becometh a true child of the reformation : if you will oblige me to believe scripture as interpreted by the lutheran church ( the like i say of any other congregation ) and deny the tenets of all others , what difference betwixt me and a papist in the election of my religion ? for the papists religion must be no other , but scripture as interpreted by the pope and councils ; my religion must be scripture as interpreted by the lutheran church , and no other ; my judgment and conscience therefore is as much constrained as that of the papist and our separation from popery will come to be but an exchange of one slavery for another ; in that , our judgments and counsciences were slaves to the pope and councils ; in this , we are slaves to the lutheran church : we became a reformation by shaking off the yoke of popery from our judgments , and leaving them free for to believe scripture as with the assistance of gods spirit , each one best understands it ; and if we will continue a reformation , we must not submit again our judgments to any other , but retain that blessed liberty we recovered for to believe the tenets of any congregation . i confess this liberty is not allowed by any one particular congregation , as you observe ; out you must also grant me , that it 's allowed and taken by the whole body of the reformation , for in this whole body , as it comprehends protestants , lutherans , presbyterians , &c. one congregation believes what the other denies , and in any of them a man may live with a safe conscience ( which you will not deny ; ) therefore any man has full liberty for to believe or deny with a safe conscience the tenets of any congregation : hence it follows , ( and to my grief i speak it , ) that no particular congregation , be it of england , france or germany , has the true spirit of the reformation , in doting so much upon their particular tenets , as to think they cannot be as well denied , as believed ; and in looking upon them with so passionate eyes , as to censure check and force others to believe them : you shall see by this discourse , that the true spirit of the reformation is not in any one particular congregation separately taken from the rest ; for each particular congregation constrains as much as it can , all people to believe its own tenets : protestancy would have us all to be protestants , and would root lutherans out of the world as well as popery ; lutherans would , if they could , draw all to their own net ; presbytery esteems it self to be the best of all , and would crush protestancy if it could : this then is the spirit of each particular congregation , a limiting , confining spirit to some particular tenets , with an exclusion of all others ; but look on the whole body of our reformation , as it includes all reformed congregations distinct from popery ; there is a holy extension of spirit and liberty for to be either lutherans , presbyterians , protestants , and any thing but popery ; and whatever any congregation may say of another , but all unanimously agree that the spirit of the lord is in the whole body of the reformation ; since therefore that in this whole body , there is a latitude and liberty for to profess divers and opposite tenets , and that each tenet is believed by one , and denied by others ; we must grant that this holy liberty for to believe or deny any tenets we please , is the true spirit of our holy reformation . it 's not therefore to be wish'd , as you do , that i should stick to any one particular congregation or tenet ; for such a restriction is meer popery ; and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our congregation , is profane and popish : no , it 's a blessing of the lord upon our reformation , for which we shall never sufficiently thank him , that we see it divided into so many godly branches . in the house of my father , said christ , there are many mansions , john . . ismael . by your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change religions as often as we please , and be to day a protestant , to morrow a lutheran , next day a presbyterian , and so run over all . isaac . i know you will be startl'd at my answer , for i am not ignorant that all men apprehended it to be absurd to change and run over so many religions ; but truth must be declared , though it may seem a scandal to the jews , and a folly to the gentiles : it s therefore the doctrine of the reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day protestants , to morrow lutherans ; in france hugonots , in hungary antitrinitarians , in poland socinians ; and in london of any religion but popery . ismael . for shame you foully impose upon the reformation ; there 's not any congregation that teaches such a scandalous and absurd doctrine . isaac . by your favour , i love the reformation as the apple of my eye , and will never yield to any in my zeal for its honour and doctrine ; i am so far from imposing upon it , that i will evidence your error in denying this to be its doctrine ; and it will appear that whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change religions as time and occasion requires , must renounce the best and fundamental principles of our reformation , and must impiously condemn the practice of our first reformers . ismael . how will you make it out that this doctrine is grounded upon the the fundamental principles of our reformation ; whereas there is not one congregation of ours , but abhors it ? isaac . sir , you may well perceive by the tenor of my discourse , that i am piously and charitably jealous with each particular congregation , and that my drift is to shew that each of them , none excepted , swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid principles of the reformation , as will further appear in this discourse . it 's uncontestedly true that the rule of faith of the reformation is scripture , as the humble of heart , assisted with the spirit of the lord , understand it ; for lutherans will never admit their rule of faith to be scripture , as interpreted by the church of england , but as interpreted by themselves ; nor will england admit scripture to be the rule of faith , as it is interpreted by the presbyterians , but as interpreted by the church of england : so that the doctrine of each congregation is but scripture , as interpreted by them , and whereas all these congregations joyntly compose the whole body of the reformation , and each congregation is truly a member of the reformation the doctrine of the reformation comes to be scripture , as each congregation , and person of sound judgment in the reformation , ( says the church of england in her articles ) interprets it . this being an uncontrouled truth , what man of ever so sound judgment , but may read to day scripture , as interpreted by the lutheran church , and judge in his conscience that interpretation and doctrine to be true ; consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that religion : soon after he may meet calvin's books , and charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses upon scripture , he may judge in his conscience , he is to be preferr'd before luther , and so may lawfully forsake lutheranism for calvinism ; then again he hits upon scripture as interpreted by the church of england , whose doctrine ravishes him with that decency of ceremonies , that majesty of her liturgy , that harmony of her hierarchy , he is convinc'd it's better than calvinism , and embraces it : then again , he reads the works of arius , and convinc'd by the energy of his arguments and texts of scripture produced by him , may alter his judgment , and become an arian ▪ wherein can you say does this man transgres●…against the doctrine or principles of the reformation ? does he forsake the reformation , because he forsakes lutherism for calvinism ? no sure ; for calvinism is as much of the reformation as the other : is not protestancy as much the doctrine of the reformation as presbytery ? tho' he changes therefore one for the other , he still holds the doctrine of the reformation : is not the doctrine of the reformation scripture , not as protestants only or presbyterians only interpret it , but as any congregation , or man of sound judgment holds it ? it is therefore evident that according to the doctrine and principles of the reformation , he may with a safe conscience change religions , and be to day of one , to morrow of another , until he runs all over . point me out any congregation ( the obstinate papists excepted , ) who will dare say , i cannot live with a safe conscience in any other congregation but in it self ; all other congregations will laught at it ; why then may not i lawfully forsake any congregation , and pass to another ? and be in england a protestant , in germany a lutheran , in hungary an antitrinitarian or socinian . ismael . it 's against the grain of mans reason to believe that we can with a safe conscience change religions , as you say ; if you be a protestant , and you judge it to be the true religion , you are bound to stick to it , and never to change it . isaac . if i did discourse with a papist , i would not wonder he should say it 's against the grain of mans reason to believe it lawful ; but i admire that a child of the reformation , be he of what congregation he will , should be so ignorant of his principles , as to say a man cannot change religions when he pleases : nor do i undertake to prove against the papist , that this is lawful but i undertake to prove it lawful against any reformed child , or force him to deny the principles of the reformation . is it against reason that a man may read to day scripture , and the lutherans interpretation upon it , and like it very well ; and that he should in this case embrace that religion ? is it against the grain of mans reason that this same man should next year afterwards hit upon calvin's works upon scripture , and after better consideration , think his doctrine to surpass that of luther ; and could not he then ( being obliged to chuse the best , ) forsake lutheranism and stick to calvinism ? and is it against mans reason that he in following years may meet other books of arians , socinians , &c. and do the like ? have not we many examples of this in our best and most renowned reformers ? did not ochinus that great light ( says b. bale ) in whose presence england was happy , reading scripture , judge the reforformation to be better than popery , and of a capuchin fryar became a reformed , after some years reading scripture , he judged judaism to be better than the reformation , and became a jew : did not martin bucer , one of our first reformers of england , and composers of our liturgy , reading scripture judge lutheranism to be better than popery , and of a dominican fryar , became a lutheran ? soon after reading scripture , he judged zuinglianism to be better than lutheranism , and became a zuinglian ; not long after he became a lutheran again as he confesses a and forsook lutheranism the second time , and returned again to zuinglianism , as sklusser says , ( b ) did not cranmer one of our first reformers also of england , and composers of the . articles , a wise and religious man profess popery in henry the viii's time , and compose a book in defence of real presence ; then in edward the vi's time upon better consideration he professed zuinglianism , and writ a book against real presence ; then again in queen mary's reign being sentenc'd to death , he declared for popery , but seeing his recantation would not preserve his life , he renounced popery and died a zuinglian . i could tire your patience in reading , and mind in relating the number of our prime and most renowned , as well first reformers . as learned doctors , who without any scruple , changed several times their religions : nor in the principles of our reformation ought they to be blamed : for whereas our rule of faith is scripture as with the assistance of gods spirit we understand it , who doubts but we may to day judge sincerely luther's sense of it to be true , to morrow we may read with more attention and judge arius his sense to be true ; next day that of calvin , and so of the rest : i do not think but that we have in england many abettors of this doctrine : alas ! how many bishops , deans and rich parsons do we know , and have we known who were zealous presbyterians , and declared enemies of protestancy in our gracious soveraign's exile ; and no sooner was he restored , and had bishopricks and ecclesiastical dignities to be given , but they became stiff protestants . observe the difference betwixt the papists and us , if of a papist you become of any other congregation , the popish church excommunicates you , thou art lookt upon as an heretick , and apostate ; a stray'd sheep ; they will not admit you to their communion , or liturgy ; nay , could they well avoid you , they would never admit you to their company ; and why ? because they are fondly perswaded their own is the only true religion , and all others to be synagogues of satan ; and if any of us will become a papist , he must first abjure his former profession : but if of a protestant , you should become a presbyterian , a lutheran , quaker , or of any other of our societies , you are never looked upon to be a jot the worse for it ; we are not a whit scandalized at such changes , which we daily see ; and it is an unspeakable blessing , with what accord , unity and charity , you may see at our liturgy and communion , the protestant , presbyterian , anabaptist , socinian and hugonot , all praising the lord in one congregation in our church , none bid out of the church , none excommunicated , no previous abjuration required of their former tenets ; and there 's nothing more frequent among us than to go to the protestant liturgy in the morning , in the evening to the prebyterian , especially if our interest or convenience requires it : can there be a more convincing proof that we esteem it all alike what religion and tenets we profess ? let a lutheran go to france ; alas ! he will never stick to go to the hugonots meeting and service ; let a protestant go to germany , he will go as cheerfully to the lutheran church , as in england to the protestant : let a hugonot or presbyterian go to hungary , or poland , he is welcome to the antitrinitarians , and socinians ; and when any of them returns home he will be as before . ismael . but can you prove this doctrine by the testimony of any of our synods ? did any teach that we may with a safe conscience change our religion as you say ? isaac . yes , i can : the synod of charenton in france , held about the year expresly says , that for your salvation it 's all alike whether you be a calvinist , lutheran , or of any other congregation of the reformed ; because , says this venerable synod , they all agree in fundamental points , and the lutherans have nothing of superstition or idolatry in their manner of divine worship . change then as often as you list ; be a lutheran , be a presbyterian , be an anabaptist ; by the mouth of this synod you are assured you 'll never miss to hit right . and i pray , can any synod of our times have more authority in point of doctrine then luther our first reformer , a man extraordinarily raised by god , ( says the synod of charenton , ) and replenisht with his spirit for to repair the ruins of his church ? he teaches c the elevation of the sacrament is idolatry , yet he did practise it , and commanded it should be practised in the church of wittemberg to spite the devil carolstadius : giving you to understand that for just reasons , you may teach now one religion , now another . zuinglius also , whose vertue and learning is known to the world , says , d that god inspired him to preach what doctrin was suitable to the times ; which as it often changes , you may often change your doctrin : and consider you if it be not therefore that christ our lord says his yoke is easie , and his burden is light , ( that is religion ) because we can withdraw our necks from it , as time and just reasons requires . ismael . could you give me any synod of the church of england which delivers this doctrin , you would go near hand to convince me ; for , that some particular doctors should have taught or practised it , does not prove it to be the doctrine of the reformation . isaac . and what a greater authority has a synod of england , for to prove a doctrin to be of the reformation , than a synod of france which i have produced ? or than luther and zuinglius our first reformers , inspired by god , to teach us the purity of the gospel ? was it not from luther and zuinglius , that england received the doctrin of the reformation ? and if england be so bold as to say they erred in this , what assurance can we have , but that they erred in the rest ? but since nothing will please you but a synod of england , you shall have not one , but many . can there be any synod in england of so great authority as our wise and prudent parliaments ? read our chronicles and you 'll find , that in a few years time , they changed and established different religions by publick acts of parliament : in henry the viii 's reign they voted for popery , and made acts and statutes against the reformation ; in edward the vi 's time they banisht popery and voted for zuinglianism ; in queen mary's they pull'd down this , and set up popery again ; in queen elizabeth's , they decryed this , and set up not zuinglianism , but protestancy ; in the midst of her reign , they polisht this , and added some new perfections to it ; in king james and succeeding kings times protestancy is of a different stamp from that of queen elizabeth's : hear dove in his exhort . to the english recusants , an. . pag. . henry the . had his liturgy which was very good : edward the . condemned it , and brought in another composed by peter martyr and bucer : in elizabeth 's time , that was condemned , and another approved ; and in the middle of her reign , her liturgy was also misliked , and a new one introduced ; we are so wanton that nothing will content us but novelties . ismael . dove does not commend this doctrin , for he calls that frequent exchange of religion wantonness , and love of novelty . isaac . it 's no great matter what he says of it ; my drift is but to convince you that this is the doctrine , and practice of the best member of our reformation ; even of england , and if you be convinc'd it 's the doctrine of the reformation , you cannot deny but that it is good doctrine . if dove calls it wantonness , s. paul , ephes . . . coloss . . . and rom. . . commends it , and exhorts us to put off the old man with its deeds , ( that 's popery with its ceremonies , ) and put on the new man , ( that 's the reformation ) where there 's neither greek nor jew , circumcision , nor vncircumcision , barbarian , or scythian , bound or free , but christ is all , and in all : that 's to say ; where there 's no distinction of protestants or presbyterians , socinians , or arians ; it 's all one which religion you profess . ismael . but is there no tenet of religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold ? isaac . yes there is , and no more but one : we are bound to have faith in jesus christ , the son of god , and the saviour of the world. this is the substance of christian religion ; be an arian , be a presbyterian a socinian or what you please , be also plung'd to your ears in wickedness of life , and manners , so you have faith in jesus christ , son of god , and redeemer of the world , and live in charity , you will be a member of the true church , and be saved . do not imagine this is any new doctrine invented by me ; search the vulgar sort of our reformed brethren , you shall get thousands of this opinion in our realm ; search the books of our learned doctors , you shall find it in them also . doctor morton , in his much applauded book , dedicated to queen elizabeth , for which he deserved a bishoprick , e says : the arian church is to be esteemed a true church , because they hold the true substance of christian religion , which is faith in jesus christ , son of god , and redeemer of the world : and again in the same place . sect. . whose title , is , hereticks are members of the church , he says , whosoever believes in jesus christ , though by wickedness of life , or heresie in doctrine , they should err in doctrine , they are still true members of the church . therefore our learned f fox , g doctor field , and illiricus , say the greek church , notwithstanding their error in denying the procession of the holy ghost from the son , are holy members of the true church , because they have faith in jesus christ . ismael . sure you will not say this doctrine is of the reformation or can be safely believed ? isaac . i do admire how you can doubt of it , and that it may be believed : for what is the doctrine of the reformation but as we have said in our principles , scripture as interpreted by any man of sound judgment in the church ? and were not doctor morton , fox , field , and illiricus , men of sound judgment , eminent learning and godliness ? if therefore this be scripture as interpreted by them , how can you deny it to be the doctrine of the reformation ? ismael . and what jesus christ are we obliged to believe in ? for jesus christ , as believed by the arians , socinians , luther and calvin , is far different from jesus christ , as commonly believed by the protestants , and popish church ; we believe in jesus christ the son of god , of one and the same substance and nature with the father ; they believe in a jesus christ son of god , but of a distinct and different nature and substance of the father . isaac . pish ! that 's but a nicety ; believe what you please , and what you understand by scripture to be true , and have charity . ismael . i confess you have puzled , but yet not wholly convinced me ; were i but perswaded that what you have discoursed , is truly the doctrin of the reformation , i would cheerfully embrace it , and i will be better informed by your self , but not tire your patience : we will meet again and pursue our discourse upon this subject . second dialogue . ismael . reflecting in my sollitude upon your last discourse , i find it bottom'd upon a false principle , for you suppose that whatever doctrin is of luther , calvin , or any of your learned doctors , synods , parliaments , or congregations , is the doctrin of the reformation , and may without any more proof or scruple , be believed by any reformed child ; who but sees this is ridiculous , to fasten the doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular doctor , or congregation upon the whole body ? this is the uncharitable and unreasonable art of the papists who keep a great coil , with some exorbitant opinions of luther and calvin , and would perswade their proselites , they are the tenets of the reformation ; whereas the reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the pope does : and they do not poor people observe how many absurd and scandalous doctrines we meet in their casuists and divines , which when we reproach them with , they answer , it 's not the doctrin of their church , but of some particular doctors ; as if we might not with as much justice as they , answer the same . isaac . your reflection is good , and my discourse will fall to the ground , if i do not prove that principle , which will be no hard task : let us imagine we are here a full synod of protestants , presbyterians , hugonots , lutherans , antitrinitarians , anabaptists , quakers , and of all and each of our congregations ; our reformation is not any of these congregations , with an exclusion of the rest , but all of them joyntly ; for whatsoever congregation would say it self alone is the reformation , and no other , would be hiss'd at by the rest ; and justly , because that our reformation imports two points essentially . first , a profession of christianity , according to the rule of the word of god , and a detestation or abjuration of popish errors ; and none of these congregations but does both . ismael . i know some of these , pharisee-like , despise others , and look upon them not as reformed , but as putrid members ; but the lord forbid i should be so void of charity ; i see no just chalenge any can have to the title of reformation , which all have not . isaac . let us ask this synod by what rule of faith does the reformation walk ? what must a man believe for to be a true reformed ? protestants will say , that scripture and apostolical tradition ; but protestants say of papists and presbytarians and anabaptists say of protestants , that many humane inventions are obtruded upon us as apostolical traditions : that we have no way , to discern the one from the other , and consequently tradition , as being an unknown thing unto us , cannot be our rule ; others will say , that scripture , and the indubitable consequences out of it , is our rule , all will grant this ; but then enters the controversy , if the consequences of lutherans be such , and if the consequences of presbyterians be indubitable out of scripture , and each congregation will say , that their peculiar tenets are indubitable consequences out of scripture , and the rest must allow it to be true , or deny such a congregation to be of the reformation ; others will say that scripture , and the four first general councils with the apostles , and athanasius's creed are our rule of faith ; but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first , than the subsequent councils , nor athanasius's creed , more than that of trent , nor will the quakers , socinians , and others value the apostles creed . but there is none of all the assembly , who will not admit scripture , that 's the pure written word of god , to be a sacred and full rule of faith , because it 's replenished with divine light , and all heavenly instruction necessary for our salvation : and such as add , as a part of our rule of faith , the apostles or athanasius's creed , or the four first general councils , they will confess that all they contain , is expressed in gods written word , and are but a plainer , or more distinct expression or declaration of the contents of scripture . ismael . truly i must grant you this , that i have been often present at several discourses of protestants with papists , and never could i hear a protestant make councils , tradition , or any thing else , the test of their discourse , but only scripture ; not but that i could hear them say and pretend in their discourses , that apostolical tradition , and the four first councils were for them against popery ; but still their main strength and ultimate refuge was scripture ; for whenever they harp upon that string of tradition and councels , the papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to scripture , than which there is no plus ultra . i have been also often at several discourses betwixt protestant , presbyterians , and our brethren of other congregations , i have observed that the protestant , for to defend his liturgy , rights and ceremonies of the church of england , and her episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by scripture alone , and plac'd his main strength against them in tradition , primitive councils , and ancient fathers , all which the other rejected and reproached the protestant with popery , for making use of that weapon ; that if they would stick to those principles as their rule of faith , they must admit many tenets of popery , which they disavow , that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and rule of faith : and i find by all i could ever well understand , that 's the general apprehension , and belief of all the reformation , that scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe ; and is our sole and only rule of faith ; and that our recourse to tradition , councils , fathers , &c. are but shifts of some of our doctors , who being non-plust in their particular engagements , and sophistries , patch the incoherency of their discourses with these rags of popery . isaac . i commend your ingenuity , but not that heat which transports you to check our doctors , for their glosses and particular doctrines upon scripture , which , as the manna relished of all sorts of victuals , which the eater fancied , admits several sences according to the different spirits , and measure of light that god gives to the reader , and it is undoubtedly the spirit of the reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best , and not to check others following this or that as they please : lutherans , protestants , presbyterians , &c. have all for their rule of faith , scripture , which each of them interprets in a different sense ; luther for the real , [ protestants for the figurative ] presence ; protestants for episcopacy ; presbyterians against it , and so of others : and tho' each esteems his own sence to be the best , yet none is so bold as to say that others may not be saved in their own sence of it , or deny them to be true children of the reformation ; nay , that venerable synod of charenton , as i quoted above , has declared , that the lutherans , tho' opposite to them in their chief tenets , are their beloved brethren , and have nothing idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of divine worship : the fundamental reason of all this is , that our rule of faith , is but scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it . ismael . i grant all your discourse as to this particular ; for it 's certain , lutherans will not admit scripture as interpreted by pretestants , but as interpreted by themselves ; and so of each other congregation . isaac . if you admit our rule is scripture , as each understands it ; then you must grant that our doctrine of the reformation , is whatever doctrine each person of sound judgment understands to be of scripture ; and from this , it appears plainly that my principle whereat you boggl'd is true ; that whatever doctrine is professed by any of our congregations , synods , parliaments , doctors , or particular doctor of our reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the doctrine of our reformation ; which principle being true , my discourse of yesterday is undeniable , that you may change religion as often as you please , and remain still a true reformed child . ismael . but you have said , that not only the doctrine of each congregation and synod , is the doctrine of the reformation : but also whatever any one particular doctor teaches , and this seems to be very absurd . isaac . it 's not so absurd , as it 's true ; i 'll prove by the principles of our reformed church , by the testimonies of our most learned and best doctors and reformers , and by reason and experience , that the doctrine of any particular doctor among us , has as much right to be called and esteemed the doctrine of the reformation , as protestancy , presbytery , or lutheranism , for what is lutheranism , but the judgment of luther a particular doctor against the whole church of rome ? what is calvanism , but what calvin a particular doctor judged to be the sence of scripture against that same church ? what is quakerism , but honest naylor's godly and pious sentiments upon scripture ? it 's undeniably the principle of our reformed church , that our rule of faith is scripture as interpreted , not only by synods or congregations , but by any person of sound judgment in the church . no congregation or synod is to us a rule of faith , because all are ●…llible ; but gods written word , as each one understands it ; and if we do not like the sence of it delivered by any council , synod , or congregation , we may safely deny it . therefore our great calvin , a says , and proves with great energy of scripture and reason , that we are not obliged to the decisions and doctrine of any council , synod , or congregation , if after having examined scripture , we do find their interpretation and sense of it , is conformable to the word of god. let synods and congregations say what they will , if any particular doctor thinks his own private sence of it to be better , he may stick to it against them all , and be a good true child of the reformation ; as arminius in holland did withstand the synods of dordrecht and delfe ; as luther and calvin did against rome . i will be free , says our unparallel'd proto-apostle luther , b i will not submit my self to the authority of councils , church , doctors , vniversities , or fathers , but will teach and preach whatever i think to be true . did ever any apostle speak with more courage ? and the blessed man acted with no less ; he knew full well the whole stream of antiquity , doctors , fathers and councils were against him , as he confesses himself , and did not care a rush for them all : lay aside , says he , call arms of orthodox antiquity , of schools of divinity , authority of fathers , councils , popes , and consent of ages ; we receive nothing but scripture ; but so that we must have the authority of interpreting it . nor was it only luther and calvin spoke thus , but all our first blessed reformers ; and why ? because our rule of faith is scripture , not as interpreted by the church of england , ( france will not admit it , ) nor as interpreted by the quakers , ( the anabaptists , and independants will not hear it ) nor as interpreted by luther , ( calvin rejects it ) nor as interprèted by calvin , ( thorndike and bramhall will not yield to it , ) nor will stillingfleet stand to their interpretation ; nor others to that of stillingfleet . finally our rule of faith is scripture , not as interpreted by any , but as each congregation , synod , particular doctor , or man of sound judgment interprets it , and consequently whatever doctrine any man of sound judgment judges to be of scripture , is to be esteem'd the doctrine of the reformation ; and you may safely believe it , if you like it , and remain still as truly a reformed child , as the proudest protestant of england . ismael . can you prove that our rule of faith is scripture , as any particular doctor or person of sound judgment understands it ? isaac . behold how convincingly : first we have heard luther , quoted but now , say , we receive nothing but scripture , but so as that we must have the authority for to interpret it : hear him again ; d the governours and pastors have power to teach , but the sheep must give their judgment , whether they propose the voice of christ , or of strangers . and again , e christ has taken from the bishops , councils , and pastors , the right of judging of doctrine ; and given it to all christians in general ; and the rule is scripture as each one will think fit to interpret it . and consequently to this , we have heard him say above , i will be free and will not submit to doctors , councils or pastors but will teach whatever i think to be true . barlow , f the apostles have given to each particular , the right and power of interpreting , and judging by his inward spirit what is true ; it is needless that either man , or angel , pope , or council , should instruct you , the spirit working in the heart and scripture are to each particular person most assured interpreters . blison , bishop of winchester , says the same , g the people must be discerners and judges of what is taught . our religion has no other rule of faith ( says our french reformation by the mouth of du moulin , h drelincourt , and the holy synod of charenton , but the written word of god , as interpreted by us . lastly , says the church of england . we have no other rule of faith , but scripture as each person of sound judgment in the church understands it , and what is proved by it : and again in the catholick doctrine of the church of england , pag. . which is but an exposition of articles . our rule of faith is but scripture , as each person of sound judgment in the church understands it : authority is given to the church , and to each person of sound judgment in it , to judge in controversies of faith , and this is not the the private judgment of our church , but also of our brethren of foreign countries . ismael . i confess , not only these , but many other doctors abet your discourse , and the general vogue of our reformation , is for scripture as each one understands it ; but alas ! you see well , that we can never settle any religion , or church , by such a rule of faith. isaac . you can never settle any but this , that every man may without let or hinderance , believe what be pleases ; and why should not this be a good religion ? if scripture as each one understands it be not our rule of faith ; if we must be constrained to believe scripture not as we understand it , but as it is understood by this or that congregation ; what difference betwixt us and papists ? they must believe scripture as interpreted by the pope and councils ; have ever so much light from god , be ever so wise and witty , you must depose your own judgment , and submit to that of the pope , council , and popish church : to this pass we are come also ; we must believe the kings supremacy , episcopacy , figurative presence , tho perhaps we do not judge by scripture it to be true doctrine ; we are constrained by penal laws , and and acts of parliament to believe them , as papists by their inquisition ; and why ? because the church of england understands by scripture , it 's true ; and if you reply you do not interpret scripture so , you 'll not be heard ; you must submit and believe against your judgment ; and what 's this but plain popish tyranny over mens consciences ? did luther and calvin forsake the pope and councils , for to submit their judgments to any other ? no , but to follow scripture as each one of them understood it : and tho' luther was a man raised by god , and replenish'd with his spirit to repair the ruins of the church , yet calvin did no more submit to him , than luther did to the pope ; nor did zuinglius submit to calvin , but followed his own sense of scripture , nor did oeclampadius submit to zuinglius ; but every one searched the scripture , believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a reformation of popery ; if therefore we will continue a reformation , and walk by the spirit of our blessed reformers ; we must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of scripture . we must believe whatever we think to be true , and have no other rule of faith but scripture , as each one understands it . ismael . and what then ? what do you infer from this discourse ? isaac . this consequence , that whereas no true child of the reformation , be he of what congregation he will , can justly deny our rule of faith to be scripture , as any person of sound judgment interprets it ; it follows unavoidably that the doctrine of the reformation is , whatever any person of judgment interprets to be the true sense of scripture , and whatever luther , calvin , beza , or any other of sound judgment in the reformation , since its first rise until this day , taught to be the true sence of scripture , is to be called and esteemed the doctrine of the reformation , tho' to this or that congregation , it may seem to be wicked and scandalous doctrine . and now let me answer to an objection you made against this principle in our entrance to this discourse : you objected that many popish doctors and casuists , delivered scandalous and base doctrines , which the papists will not admit to be the doctrin of their church , tho' delivered by popish doctors ; and thence you pretended , that the particular sentiments of private doctors of the reformation are not to be called the doctrin of our church . but be pleased to observe the difference betwixt popery and our reformation the rule of , faith in popery is scripture , as interpreted by the pope and council , or their church ; they will admit no other ; consequently no doctrin is to be called popery , but what is judged by the pope and his church , or council , to be the sense of scripture ; and if any doctor or university holds any sense contrary to theirs , it is to be called the doctrin of that particular person and not the doctrin of the popish church , because their rule of faith is not scripture , as interpreted by their pope and council . but whereas our rule of faith in the reformation is scripture , as each person of sound judgment interprets it ; whatever doctrin , or sense , is said by any man to be of scripture , is justly to be called the doctrine of the reformation : for example , melancthon , a man of sound judgmen , great learning , and of an upright conscience , taught bigamy to be the doctrine of scripture ; beza taught the lords supper might be administer'd a in any kind of victuals , as well as in bread and wine : calvin taught that christ despaired on the cross , and suffer'd the pains of hell after his death : why then , let all the bishops and universities of england condemn this doctrine ; let all the synods of france and germany decry it , the doctrine will be still of the reformation , because it 's scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment . ismael . the heat of your discourse has tired you , and my memory is sufficiently loaden with what you have said ; let me digest it in my private retirement and we will meet again . isaac . content , carry with you these three points which i have proved convincingly ; first , our rule of faith is scripture , not as interpreted by this or that , but by any man of sound judgment ; secondly , it follows hence that the doctrine of the reformation must be , and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment says is the sense of scripture : thirdly , it follows we may change religions as often as we please . third dialogue . ismael . i remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points , and i find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason : you 'll never perswade it , tho' you pleaded for it with great energy ; what if a silly woman , cobler , or other tradesmen , read scripture , and give their sense of it , that , forsooth , must be called the doctrine of the reformation ? and it shall be lawful for them to believe it , against the doctrine of the whole church . isaac . do not limit gods infinite goodness , by measuring his mercies towards his creatures with your narrow apprehensions : take notice , he says , he has chosen the weak and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones : * i confess unto you father , that you have hid these things from the wise and prudent , and hast revealed them to the little ones . and there he choose poor simple fishermen to his apostles : i know it 's the practice of papists , and from them your church of england borrows it , to despise the ministery of women , tradesmen , and illiterate people , in preaching , teaching , and interpreting scripture ; but st. paul tells us , ** the word of god is not bound ; that 's to say , is not entail'd on the learned , rich , or great ones ; the ‖ wind bloweth where it listeth : our bishops and ministers would make a monopoly of the word of god , and have themselves to be the only retailers of it ; for to have some plausible title for to enjoy great rents , and shear the flock . but we have seen , as well among the quakers , as in other congregations , silly women and tradesmen , replenish'd with gods spirit , preach and expound the great mysteries of our religion with as much of good success and edification of the auditory , a●… any penny-book man in england . ismael . it seems you approve the ministry o● women and silly tradesmen , for preaching and teaching the flock ; and if so , you 'll overthrow our hierarchy of bishops and ministers . isaac . it matters not so much for you to know what i approve or condemn ; but to know what the doctrine of the reformation is ; it 's this ; that none can teach , preach , administer sacraments , or exercise , ecclesiastical function , if he be not in holy orders , bishop , minister , or deacon ; for the church of england teache● it , and you may believe it if you please . you may also deny it and say , any woman or tradesman has as much power for to preach and administer the sacraments , as the richest bishop in england : this also is the doctrine of the reformation as well as the former , because quakers , presbyterians , brownists , anabaptists , &c. believe and teach it , and they are men of as sound judgments , and as good reformers as protestants ; nay , the most learned of our reformers , teach and commend the power of women for to exercise spiritual functions , and administer the sacraments : a saumaise , peter martyr , and b zuinglius , expresly defend the priesthood as well of women as of men : and c luther proves it efficaciously ; the first office of a priest says he , is to preach ; this is common to all , even women ; the the second is to baptize : which is also common to women ; the third is to consecrate their bread and wine , and this also is common to all as well as to men : and in the absence of a priest , a woman may absolve from sins as well as the pope , because the words of christ , whatever ye shall untye on earth , shall be untyed in heaven , were said to all christians . and when so eminent men had not said it , reason and scripture convinces it ; reason , because that our rule of faith being scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it , many women undoubtedly are of sound judgment , and why should not their interpretation of scripture pass for the doctrine of the reformation , as well as that of our bishops and ministers ? scripture , because we read , the samaritan woman was the first who preached the messias to the city of samaria , and christ commanded mary magdalen to go to preach his resurrection to his disciples ; and we know by our cronicles , that our glorious queen elizabeth of blessed memory , did not only govern the state , but was a great apostoless in church affairs . ismael . to what purpose then , have we bishops and ministers , who enjoy so vast revenues , if any man or woman can preach and administer the sacraments as well as they ? isaac . you may believe , bishops and ministers are very needful for the service of the church ; for they being commonly learned witty men , and having wives , they come to instruct their wives so well , that the good women come in a short time to be as learned as their husbands , and as nimble and quick in the ecclesiastical ministeries , as they if they were permitted to exercise them ; as some authors of credit relate unto us , that a gentleman of constance , writ to his friend in a village , ( about three leagues distant from that city , ) whose inhabitants were for the most part of our lutheran reformation ; the good pastor exhorted his flock to prepare for easter communion , that none should presume to come to the holy table , but should first confess and receive absolution of his sins : easter holy days being come , such a multitude flock'd to confession , that the pastor could not satisfie the devotion of so great a croud ; he called his wife to help him , for to hear confessions , and give absolutions , in which ministery the good lady did labour with great satisfaction of the penitents ; but neither the pastor , nor his vertuous consort being able to dispatch so great a multitude , he called his maid servant , who did work in the holy ministery with as much expedition as her master . but for all this , the church of scotland , france , and all england ( protestants excepted , ) will tell you that bishops and ministers are not needful , nay that they are very prejudicious to the reformation and state ; to the reformation , because this hierarchy with the bishops court , surplices , corner caps , and other trumperies , puts the flock in mind of popery , whereof it 's a perfect resemblance ; and whilst the papists see our change from them , comes to be almost no more but to substitute new priests and bishops in their own place for to manage more conscienciously the rents and revenues which they profanely abused , and that those rents and revenues are still in the hands of an ecclesiastical hierarchy , they live in hopes of recovering them some day , when our bishops and ministers will come to be as bad stewards of them as they were , and that the flock will be weary of them and call back the antient possessors : it 's therefore perhaps the emissaries of the pope do incessantly blow in our ears , how ill our ecclesiastical revenues are bestowed , for to maintain wives and children , pomp and vanity of bishops and ministers , no less than in popery . to the state , they seem to be prejudicious , whereas any but a bishop or minister , would think , it would be more advantagious to the common-wealth , that the king should have those revenues for to maintain his fleet and army , and ease thereby the subjects of subsidies and taxes , than that a handful of bishops and ministers should have them ? specially when others can preach and teach as well as they , for nothing , but the pleasure of being heard . ismael . but do not you see it would be a sacrilege , that the king should deprive the clergy of their church revenues ? isaac . and do not you know , that almost all our congregations do hold our clergy to be no true clergy , but as meer laymen as you or i ? they admit no clergy or episcopal character , but elders chosen by the congregation . and if they be no true clergy , they have no right to the church revenues , and it 's no sacrilege to deprive them of them . the popish clergy in henry the viii's time , had visibly a greater right to them , than ours now have . for neither the king himself nor any other did doubt of their right ; and now most of our congregations do absolutely deny any right in our clergy to those rents , because they are no clergy . ye● none will be so bold , as to accuse henry the viii of sacrilege , for having taken the church-living from them , for to put them to better use . and why should we dare say , our king would commit any , for depriving our clergy of those rents ? believe he can lawfully do it , or believe he cannot , you 'll be still a good child of the reformation . believe what you please . ismael . this is a ticklish point , let 's leave it to the consideration of our wise and prudent parliament , and be pleased to answer to my doubt . how can we live in peace and tranquility in religion , if our rule of faith be scripture as each one understands it . i remember a discourse started in the house of lords , not many years ago , by his grace the duke of buckingham ; he desired to know , what it was to be a protestant ; wherein did protestancy properly consist ? the bishops , who were present looked one upon another , and whether they feared the difficulty of the question , or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear another speak first , they stood silent for a while ; at last the ice was broken by one , others followed , but hardly any two agreed ; and all that the duke could gather out of their several answers , was , that our rule of faith , was scripture as each one understood it , and protestancy nothing but scripture , as interpreted by the parliament and church of england ▪ whereupon he concluded , we have been these hundred years very busie for to settle religion , and for ought i perceive , we are as unsettled n●w as at the beginning : and truly he had great reason , for religion and faith is nothing else , but that sense of scripture , which each person of sound judgment understands ; and as it 's impossible we should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the text , so it 's impossible we shall ever be settled and agree in religion . isaac . the reason of our unsettlement hitherto , and at present , is the violent efforts , what by persecutions , acts of parliaments , and other oppressions : what by invectives , intrigues , and cabals of the church of engand , to draw all to be protestants ; of the presbyterians , to make us deny episcopacy ; and of each other congregation to force us to their respective tenets : and whilst this constraint and severity is used against mens consciences , it 's in vain to expect peace or settlement in our reformed church : but let us follow the rule of faith , let each one believe as in his conscience he best understands scripture : let us all believe what we please , and be permitted so to do , and we shall without doubt enjoy perfect peace and tranquillity : believe you figurative presence , if you will ; let the lutheran believe his real presence , if he likes it , and let me believe no presence at all , if i judge there 's none ? why will not you permit me to follow that rule of faith , which the whole reformation , even the church of england gives me in her articles , scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ? to say , we can never have settlement in religion , whilst this arbitrary interpretation of scripture is permitted , is to speak like a papist : this the pope and papists said to our first blessed reformers , and the popish church says this day to us , that we ought to submit our judgments to the church and councils ; that we ought not to believe what sense we think to be true , but what the pope and councils propose unto us ; and if luther , and our other reformers did not do ill in following their own sense and interpretation of scripture against all the world , why do you blame me , or any other for following their example . ismael . when you speak of our reformation and congregations , i hear you reckon the arians , socinians , and antitrinitarians , among them ; sure you do not believe they , or such like ancient condemned hereticks , were of the reformation ; for we protestants do believe the mystery of the trinity against them , and will never own them to be our brethren . isaac . and do not you believe episcopacy against the presbyterians , some canonical books against the lutherans , supremacy against the quakers , and infants baptism against the anabaptists ; and yet you own them as your brethren and godly congregations of the reformation ; or if you will deny them , they will also scorn you , and say they are more of the reformation than you are ? and why will you not own the arians , &c. as your brethren , tho' you believe the trinity against them ? you say they are old condemn'd hereticks ; and does this language become a child of the reformed church ? by whom were they condemn'd ? was it not by the popish church ? which also condemns us , and says we are as much hereticks as they ; and as we ought not to be so called , and judge the pope and councils sentence against us , to be bold , uncharitable , and unjust ; so we must say of the arians , pelagians , and others condemn'd by them . you say protestants will never own them to be their brethren ; god forbid the protestant church should be so uncharitable to their fellow christians , and so unjust to themselves . b. morton , ( as i cited in my first dialogue , ) as learned a man as the church of england bred , says the arian church is a true church , and will say no less of the others : but what need we the testimony of any , for what reason so convincingly proves ; they who walk by one and the same rule of faith , are of one and the same religion ; therefore lutherans , protestants , presbyterians and independants , do esteem themselves to be of the same faith and religion , because they all have the same rule , which is scripture , as each congregation understands it : also , notwithstanding the difference and variety of congregations in popery , they hold all but one faith , as they say ; because they have all but one rule of their belief , which is their infallible pope and church : but it 's evident that those which you call antient condemn'd hereticks , have one and the same rule of faith with our reformation ; for ours is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it , without any obligation of holding the sense of it delivered by pope , church , councils , or any other ; therefore our first blessed reformers did not care what sense of it the church or pope did hold , when they began to preach the purity of the gospel , but each of them interpreted it as he thought sit in the lord , and so purged the church of many errours : this is the very self same rule of faith , which arians , pelagians , nestorians , and others , peremptorily condemned by rome as hereticks , did follow and walk by : each of them read and interpreted scripture , preached and believed what sense of it they thought to be true , tho' they knew it was against the doctrine of the church , looking on scripture alone as their rule of faith , without any regard of the pope , church , councils or fathers : the church of rome , proud and impatient of any opposition , condemned them as hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her ; for taking scripture as they understood it , and not as the church and councils understood it , for their r●●● of faith ; and if this be a crime , we are as guilty as they ; we are equally ●… ocent or innocent ; we are both hereticks , or none is ; we are therefore concern'd in their honour , and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the common enemy , which is the pope . they were reformers of the church in their times , as we are in ours ; and whereas they have the same rule of faith , so they have the same religion with the reformation . ismael . then you will say , arianism is the doctrine of the reformation , and we may lawfully believe it . isaac . i say , god's unity in nature and trinity in persons , is the doctrine of the reformation , because the protestant , lutheran , and hugonot church judge by scripture , it is true ; and if you judge also by scripture , it is the true doctrine , you may believe it : i say also , if you judge by scripture , this mystery is not true , you may safely deny it acccording to the principles of the reformation , and be still as good a member of the reformed church , as they who believe it ; for whoever believes what he judges by scripture to be true , is a true reformed : and , that the denial of the trinity is as much the doctrine of the reformation , as the belief of it ; it appears not only because it was the doctrine of the arians , who , as i proved , are truly of the reformed church ; but because it was taught by the greatest lights of our church : d calvin says the text. my father is greater than i , must be understood of christ , not only as he is man , but also as he is god. and that the council of nice did abuse the text : e my father and i are one , for to prove the vnity of both in nature ; whereas it only signifies their vnity by conformity of wills. again he says , epist . . ad polon . in tract . theol. pag. . that prayer , holy trinity , one god have mercy of us , is brabarous , and does not please me . and adds , f the son has his own substance distinct from the father . his disciple g danaeus , says , it 's a foolish insipid prayer : and our great apostle luther , ( who as fox witnesseth , was the chariot and conductor of israel , and a man extraordinarily raised and replenish'd with gods spirit , to teach the purity of the gospel , ) caused that prayer to be blotted out of the litanies , h that word trinity , says he , sounds coldly ; my soul hates that word humousion , and the arian did well in not admitting it . lastly , ochinus that great oracle of england , impugns this mystery with a strong discourse : i we are not obliged to believe , says he , more than the saints of the ancient testament , otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs , but they were not obliged to believe this mystery , therefore we are not obliged . examin , i pray , the works of these eminent doctors , where i quote them ; consider if they be not , not only men of sound judgment , but men extraordinarily raised by god , ( says the synod of charenton ; ) the chariots and conductors of israel , says fox : men to be reverenc'd after christ , says our doctor ●owel , and apostolical oracles sent to teach us the purity of the gospel , and conclude , it 's an undeniable verity , that this is the doctrine of the reformation , whereas it's scripture as interpreted by such men : oh! but england , france , and scotland , believe this mystery ; well ! and what then ? that proves that the mystery is also the doctrine of the reformation , because whatever any man of sound judgment thinks to be scripture , it 's the doctrine ; but is england or france alone the whole reformation ? are not luther , calvin , danaeus , ochinus as well of the reformation , and men of as sound judgment as they ? since therefore they understand , by scripture there 's no trinity , it 's the doctrine of the reformation also that there 's none : believe it or deny it , which you like best , and you 'll be still of the reformed church . isaac . by the principle you run upon you say any may blasphemy is the doctrin of the reformation , for there 's hardly any so execrable , but some dr. of ours has delivered and taught it . ismael . the principle i run upon is this , scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it , is our rule of faith : judge you , if that be not a good principle in our reformed church , whereas this is the rule of faith given us by the articles , and generally by all our doctors , as i proved in my first dialogue : this being our rule of faith and reformed doctrine , it 's evident , that whatever doctrine is judged by any person of sound judgment to be contained in scripture , is the doctrine of our reformation : some persons of sound judgment say the real presence is expressed by scripture , this therefore is the doctrine of the reformation ; others say only figurative presence is taught in scripture , this also is the doctrine of the reformation ; some , understand by scripture , there is a mystery of the blessed trinity , this therefore is the doctrine of the reformation : others understand there 's no such mystery , this also is the doctrine of the reformation : so that whether you believe or deny this or any other tenet controverted , you 'll still hold the doctrine of the reformation . ismael . calvin k says , christ pray'd unadvisedly , the eve of his passion ; that he uttered words whereof he was afterward sorry : that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides , that overwhelm'd with desparation , he desisted from invoking god , which was to renounce all hopes of salvation : and says he , l if you object it 's absurd and scandalous to affirm christ despair i answer , this desparation proceeded from him as he was man , not as he was god. and this is not only the doctrine of calvin , but of brentius , m marlotus , n jacobus minister ( quoted by bilson ) and of beza . will you say this is the doctrine of the reformation , or that we can without scruple believe it ? also calvin says , o that christ's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem us , but that after having despaired on the cross , he suffered the death of his soul ; that 's to say , that his soul after his corporal death , suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell. and says he in the same place , they are but ignorant , doltish , brutish , men , who will deny it . luther also teaches the same doctrine : p as he suffered with exceeding pains , the death of the body ; so it seems he suffered afterward the death of the soul in hell : epinus q a learned lutheran says , christ descended into hell for thee , and suffered not only corporal death , but the death and fire of hell. mr. fulk and perkins avow this is also the express doctrine of illiricus , latimer and lossius . also luther r most impiously affirms , that not the human nature of christ dyed for us , but also his divine nature : see luther's words quoted at large by zuinglius , ſ and hospinian ; t if you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed , you will render your christianity suspected ; and if you say , that they are the doctrine of the reformation , or that they may be believed according to the principles of the reformation , you will make the reformation , and its principles to be hated by any good christian . isaac . if i walk by the rule of faith of the reformation , i 'll prove my self a true reformed child ; and if i prove my self to be a reformed child , my christianity cannot be justly suspected . what tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals , but has been judged by those eminent doctors of our reformation to be express scripture , or conformable to scripture ; and since our rule of faith is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it , and since the doctrine of our reformation is but whatever any such person of sound judgment , judges to be expressed in , or proved by scripture , it 's evident that all those tenets are undeniably the doctrine of the reformation : i say then , and will say , without any offence to my christianity , or blemish to our reformed church , that those tenets are the doctrin of the reformation and may be as safely believed by any child of it , as figurative presence , supremacy , or two sacraments : and let not any bigot pretend to frighten me from this doctrine by calling it blasphemy and impiety ; no , it 's scripture , as interpreted by our renowned reformed doctors , therefore it 's no blasphemy : let any man convince me , that our rule of faith must not be scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it ; and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the doctrine of the reformation ; but whilst that principle and rule of faith stands unshaken , nothing that is taught by any person of judgment to be the doctrine of scripture , but it is to be called our doctrine , and may be safely believed . you say , that whoever has any love for christianity , will hate the reformation and its principles , if they give liberty for to believe such blasphemies : but , can any mother be more indulgent to her child , than the reformation is to us ? such as think those tenets to be blasphemies , the reformation gives them leave not to believe them : and if any judges by scripture , that they are not blasphemies , but pure doctrine , as luther , calvin , and others did , they have liberty for to believe them . he who denies them , cannot in charity check them who believe them , nor can they who believe them , check those who deny them , whereas each follow the rule of faith , and believe what they judge by scripture to be true . and if you or your church of england cry out blasphemy , blasphemy , against all that you judge to be false , why do not you cry blasphemy against presbyterians , lutherans , and other congregations , from whom you dissent ? and what difference betwixt you and ●he church of rome ? the folly of this is to call heresy and blasphemy all that is not her own doctrine ! and all that your church of england mislikes , must be fanaticism , blaphemy , and impiety ? must our rule of faith be scripture , as the church of england understands it , and not otherwise ? presbyterians , and lutherans , will never allow it : if therefore our rule of faith be scripture , as each person understands it ; any person of sound judgment in the reformation , may without scruple believe what he understands to be the doctrine of scripture . fourth dialogue . ismael . you still insist upon that principle , that our rule of faith is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it , and from that principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of piety and religion . isaac . that principle is not invented by me , it 's of our holy reformation ; if i did discourse with a papist i would prove the principle to be true , and gods express word ; but since i discourse with a reformed child , i suppose , i need not spend my time in proving it ; this principle then , being an unquestionable truth in our reformation , no reformed child must be so irreverent and bold as to say , that any doctrine which clearly and unavoidably follows out of it , is blasphemous or impious , for that would be to condemn our principle by which we walk : ex vero non sequitur nisi veram : from a true principle nothing can follow but true doctrine . can you deny but this was the rule of faith , and principle of our first blessed reformers , and of the church of england , mentioned in her articles ? if therefore they judged , and if any other judges by that rule and principle , that those tenets which you call impious and blasphemous , to be true doctrine , they cannot be blamed for believing them . ismael . i confess our first reformers did speak so , but i say such errors and impious doctrines cannot without irreverence be called the doctrine of the reformation , and cannot without impiety be believed , because our reformation at present condemns and detests those blasphemies , for we must grant that our reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of doctrine , god began it by luther , calvin , zuinglius , and others : those great men had their frailties , they did overlash in some things , and what they said amiss , gods heavenly spirit inspired to the church from time to time to correct it , and has at length brought our church to that purity of doctrine , and fulness of perfection which now it enjoys . nothing is to be called now the doctrine of the reformation , but what is now believed by our congregations , and none of them believes those execrable tenets you related . isaac . you wrong the reformation very much , in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning , it 's rather to be thought , that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing years with new perfections , and correcting the first draught of it by our first reformers , has been a corruption of it with some mixture of popish errors and superstitions : for all religious congregations and pretenders to piety , are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection , and in progress of years they decline and decay from their primitive spirit into errors and corruption of manners : religious congregations are not like arts and sciences , which by time and experience receive new perfections ; but like chimnies , which grow daily blacker by continual smoke and fire : witness the jewish church and law in its beginning , flourishing and holy , but corrupted in progress of time , by traditions of men and superstitions of pharisees : witness also the law of the gospel in those happy times of the apostles , holy and pure , but corrupted after some years by errors of popery : if we be to seek for the pure and orthodox doctrine of the primitive church , ought not we to be said by the apostles , men raised extraordinarily by god , and replenished with his spirit to teach us the gospel ? and if we be to seek for the pure and orthodox doctrine of the reformation , ought not we to be sway'd rather by luther , calvin , melancthon , zuinglius , beza , and our other first reformers , than by a few ministers and bishops of england , who tho' they be wise and pious men , yet they are not of that stamp as the others . and if our present congregations presume to correct them , and say they overlash'd in their doctrine ; will not the papists say , if they have been such scandalous masters , and false teachers , why did you receive their reformation ? and as they erred so grosly in such prime articles of christianity , why do you fear and suspect they have also erred in the rest ? secondly , the papists will say , if as they reformed us , you reform them , then you must expect and permit that others may reform you , and forsake your doctrine as you forsake theirs . ismael . i wish you could make out , that the reformation was in its full . perfection in its beginning ; had you read some writers of ours , perhaps you would judge otherwise ; a musculus , ●… learned lutheran , writes thus ; thus it is with ●s at present , that if any be desirous to see a great rabble of knaves , turbulent spirits , deceitful persons , cozeners , and debauch'd men , let him go to a city , where the gospel is purely preached , and he shall find them by multitudes ; for it 's more manifest than the by light , that never were there more unbridled and ●nruly people among the turks and infidels than the professors of the reformed gospel . b luther himself says as much ; the world grows daily worse and men are now more covetous , revengeful , and licentiius than they were in popery . mr. stubs c says , no less ; after my travels round about all england , i found the people in most parts proud , malicious , ambitious and careless of good works . mr. richard gefery , in his sermon at st. paul's cross , printed anno . i may freely speak what i have plainly seen that in flanders never was there more drunkenness , in italy more wantonness , in jury more hypocrisie , turky more impiety , in tartary more iniquity , than is practised generally in england , and particularly in london . certainly our reformation at present deserves a better character ; never did the ale-houses and taverns complain more heavily of want of trading , which is a proof of our sobriety ; the churches which we see a building in london , is a good testimony of piety ; and we are so far from any smack of hypocrisie , that you shall not see in all london the least appearance of vertue , so hiddenly it's kept from mortal eyes , but what you may meet in our honest quakers . isaac . i confess our congregations as now they are , are very good both in doctrine and manners ; but i say also , that the doctrine and manners of our reformation , at its first beginning was as pure , as holy , and as true as now it is , or ever it will be . nay , supposing and granted , their manners and doctrine were so corrupt as those doctors mention ; i say that amidst all those vices , their life was as holy , innocent , blameless and pure as yours is now . and that you may be convinc'd of this truth , know that calvin expresly teaches . d we believe the sins of the faithful , ( he means of the reformation ) are but venial sins ; not but that they deserve death , but because there is no damnation for the children of grace in asmuch as their sins are not imputed to them ; and again e he says , we can assure our selves , we can no more be damn'd for any sins , then jesus christ himself . luther f is of the same opinion , as nothing but faith doth justifie us , so nothing but incredulity is a sin. again , g no sin is so great that it can condemn a man , such as are damn'd , are damn'd only for their incredulity whitaker , h no sin can hurt a men who has faith. the same is taught by wotton , fulk , tindal , and beza . it 's therefore the doctrine of scripture , as interpreted by these persons of great and sound judgment , that incests , murthers , intemperance , or whatever else you call a sin , ( incredulity excepted , ) either is no sin at all , or but venial sins , which do no harm , nor cannot damn the children of the reformation ; if therefore our brethren lived in the beginning of the reformation , as those authors relate , they lived according to scripture , as interpreted to them by men of sound judgment , and this being our rule of faith and manners , they did not ill , but very well in following it . ismael . they were men of the reformation , it 's true , who taught these errors , and dissolutition of life and good manners ; insomuch , they swerved from the spirits holiness and purity of the reformation , and must not be believed nor commended . look upon the reformation as now it is , and you will not find any such scandalous doctrine , or corruption of manners . isaac . they were not only men of the reformation , but the greatest oracles of it , which you will not match with any of our prese●●… congregations , and it 's not pardonable in any reformed child to say , such oracles , extraordinarily raised by god to teach the purity of the gospel , should have taught either errors in doctrine , or dissolution of manners . they taugh● what in their consciences they understood by scripture to be true ; if you will not be so it revent as to say , that they were knaves , who spoke and taught against their consciences and knowledge . therefore they taught the doctrine of the reformation , purely and truly ▪ the consequence is evident : for what is the doctrine of the reformation , but what wise , learned men of sound judgment think and understand by scripture to be true ? why is figurative presence the doctrine of the reformation though denied by lutherans , ( who are reformed also , ) but because wise , learned men judge by scripture as they understand it , it 's the true doctrine ? or can you give me any other rule of faith by which we may know what doctrine is of the reformation , and what not , but scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ? or what rule can you give for to know what is good or evil to be done , but scripture as understood by such persons ? if therefore luther , calvin , and the other doctors i quoted , judge by scripture that doctrine and manner of life to be true and good , why may not we say it 's the doctrine of the reformation ? if you or the church of england or scotland judge that doctrine to be false , and that manner of life to be a dissolution and corruption of manners : why ? you are men of sound judgment , you understand scripture so ; that will be the doctrine also of the reformation , you may believe it : but you must not deny that luther and calvin's doctrine also is of the reformation , because they were men of as sound judgment as you . you transgress hainously against modesty , in saying those sacred organs of god swerved from the spirit and holiness of the reformation ; which having no other rule of faith but scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it ; its spirit and holiness consists in framing our life and doctrine to that rule , as our blessed reformers and reformation in its beginning did , believing those tenets , which you call errours and blasphemy , and living that life which you call dissolution and corruption of manners , because they judge by scripture as they understood it , that doctrine and manner of life was true , innocent and good ; and if you like it as they did , you may believe and live as they did , and be a good child of the reformation : consider i pray all the works and doctrine of luther , ( the like i say of our other first reformers ) the three parts of his doctrine is against popery , and they say all are heresies and blasphemies ; the rest is contrary to the church of england , and she says , this is also errors and blasphemy , so you conspire with the papists , to destroy the credit of our first and best reformer and betwixt you both , you unplume him of all his feathers , and leave him not a bit of good doctrine . but i will stand to the spirit , and principles of the reformation , and congregations , as now they are , since that you do so much boast of its purity and great perfections ; and i will prove that doctrine and manner of life , may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its principles : for if the spirit of the reformation be at present among us , we must not be forced , as in popery , to believe against our proper judgments , what others believe by scripture to be true and holy , but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such ; because even now at present , our rule of faith is scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it , and this is the same rule which luther and the reformation in it's beginning had : this holy liberty is the best jewel , the greatest perfection , and most glorious prerogative the reformation has : if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture that he can marry ten wives at a time ; that he can kill his own son as abraham intended ; that he may commit incest with his own daughter , as lot did ; that there is no sin but incredulity , as luther believed ; nor any mystery of the trinity of persons in one nature , as calvin believed , with what justice can the church of england say a man does not believe , and live as becometh a reformed child , or that his doctrine and life is scandalous ; whereas he lives and believes as he understands by scripture , he may or ought to do , which is the rule of faith of the reformation , even of the church of england ? the church of england says , the lutheran doctrin of the real presence is not the doctrin of scripture ; that the presbyterian doctrin against episcopacy , is not the doctrin of scripture ; that the anabaptist doctrin against infants baptism , is not of scripture ; and yet you permit them all to live in peace ; you confess they are true children of the reformation , though dissenters from you ; why ? because they follow scripture as they understand it , and this is our rule of faith ? and why will not you say , the belief and life of that other man is also of the reformation , though it may seem absurd to you ; since he believes and lives as he judges by scripture he may ? it follows therefore plainly , that this is the doctrine of the reformation . ismael . i confess our rule of faith in the reformation , is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it : but you cannot doubt but that it 's needful to moderate and curb this liberty , or it may run too far : for if every man be licenced to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according to scripture ; as there is no doctrine so execrable but some ignorant reader may hit upon a text , which ill understood , may seem to favour it ; so there will be none but may be believed , and called the doctrine of the reformation : for example , beza i teaches , ( and says it 's also the doctrine of calvin , sumaize and geneve , ) that the lords supper may be lawfully administred in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine , in eggs , flesh , fish , &c. where there is no bread and wine , says he , we may duly celebrate , if instead of them we use what we usually eat and drink . and again in the same place , if there be no water at hand , and that baptism cannot be with edification deferred i would baptize in any other liquor . isaac . and why should not it be lawful to any reformed to believe this , whereas it's scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment ? but i do not in any wise like that opinion of yours , and of the church of england , that it 's convenient to limit and curb men's judgments , lest they may run too far : this is the policy of rome , they will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of scripture , alledging forsooth , for inconveniency , the multitude of absurd doctrines which the world would swarm with , if such a liberty were allowed : no , no , far be it from any true reformed child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret scripture , and believe what they judge by it to be true : and if what they judge to be true ▪ should seem to you false and scandalous , do not you believe it , but let them believe it , and they will be of the reformation , because they follow our rule of faith. ismael . k luther l melancthon , m musculus , n ochinus , o beza , and others , teach the lawfulness of bigamy or multiplicity of wives , and prove it with the example of abraham , isaac , and jacob : and ochinus expounding the text of st. paul , it behoveth a bishop to be a man of one wife : the prohibition , says he , is not to be understood so , that a bishop should have but one wife at a time , for certainly he may have many ; but st. pauls meaning is , that he ought not to have too many wives at a time , that 's to say , ten or twenty . isaac . and will you deny this to be the doctrine of the reformation , whereas it's scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment ? ismael . the synod of geneve , p and the q ecclesiastical discipline of france , printed at saumure , has decreed , that a wife whose husband is a long time absent , may have him called by the publick cryer , and if within a competent time he does not appear , without any further enquiry , the ministers may licence her to marry any other ; or marry her himself . isaac . i say all women may practice this doctrine without scruple or shame , whereas it's scripture , as interpreted by that thrice holy synod ; but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages , for fear their wives may take other husbands in their absence . ismael . luther r teaches it's lawful to a wife , if her husband does not please her , to call her man-servant , or her neighbour ; which doctrine they say is come to the ears of our london sisters ; and he gives the like liberty to the hubands , if their wives be pettish and humoursom . if the husband , says he , cannot correct the humoursomness of his wife , he may imagine she is dead , and may marry another , because it 's not in the power of a man to live without a woman , nor in hers to live without a man. isaac . this is scripture as interpreted by luther , and consequently must not be denied to be the doctrine of the reformation ; nor can any of our reformation be justly punish'd or blam'd for practising it , if he judges by scripture it be true , ( as luther did ) for this is out rule of faith. but luther never gave this liberty , but upon condition , that the husband or wife should first make their complaint before a magistrate , for to have a redress of their injury and discontent ; but this condition seems too . combersome to the modesty of our sisters ; they do not submit to it , but do themselves justice without any address to the magistrate . i know also , that not only luther , but ſ bucer , t melancthon , u ochinus , x musculus and calvin , y do teach that a man who finds his wife in adultery may cast her off by divorce , and marry another ; and our french synods have ordered this doctrine to be put in their ecclesiastical discipline , so that it 's the doctrine of scripture as interpreted by these persons of sound judgment , and consequently of the reformation : you may therefore believe and practise it ; our sisters , particularly our ministers wives were much alarm'd at this doctrine , and say it 's a damnable heresie ; believe it as you please . ismael . does not luther say it's impossible a z young man of years can live without a woman ; or a young maid of years without a man ; whereby all parents may believe their daughters of that age are defil'd if not preferr'd in due time : sure you will not say , this is the doctrine of the reformation . isaac . and who doubts but that it 's the reformed doctrine : scripture as interpreted by so sound a judgment ; the contrary doctrine is also of the reformation , and you may believe it , because our glorious queen elizabeth dyed a virgin ; and it 's credibly reported some few fellows of oxford and cambridge live continently . ismael . but what do you think of a child christen'd in popery by a monk or a fryar , ought he to be christen'd again in our reformation ? and what if a popish priest , or fryar , did become of our reformed church , can he lawfully marry , whereas be made a vow of chastity ? isaac . as to the first query , it 's the doctrin of the reformation , declared by many french synods , and recorded in their ecclesiastical discipline , that he must be christen'd again , because the first baptism was null : it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , declared by the church of england , and many synods of france , that the first baptism is sufficient and valid : believe which you please . it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , that infants baptism is not at all needful ( nay nor lawful say the anabaptists ) so says calvin , a zuinglius , beza , and many others ; it 's likewise the doctrin of our articles b , and our holy synod of london c , that infants baptism is lawful and needful . believe which you like best ; both are of the reformation . as to the second query , it 's the doctrin of the reformation that priests and fryars are obliged to the vow of chastity which they made in popery , and cannot marry , this is the doctrin of many of our brethren , and particularly of d hooker , e marloratus , budellus and f couel , who say the papists vows of poverty , obedience and chastity are commendable and ought to be kept . you may also believe this is wicked doctrin , and that they may take wives notwithstanding their vow of chastity , as well as benefices notwithstanding their vow of poverty : believe which you please , both doctrines are of the reformation ; but the best is to say they can marry , for if marriage and benefices were denied them , no priest or fryar would ever embrace our reformed doctrin : we know our great zuinglius himself would not at all preach the gospel unto the switzers , until that he presented a petition for himself and his companions ( all priests and fryars ) extant yet in his tom. pag. . and obtained the contents of it , which was to have wives . nor can we doubt this to be the best doctrin , whereas luther , beza , and almost all our reformers , were priests and fryars , and the first step they gave in the reformation was to marry : the papists and some weak brethren were much scandalized at luther's marriage , and erasmus his raillery upon it was much solemnized ; luther yesterday a monk , to day a husband , and next day a father , because that honest kate boren , his virtuous bride , was happily delivered of a lovely boy eight days after he married her : but the servant of god did not regret the action , which proves that he judged by scripture it was very lawful . fifth dialogue . ismael . you know i have been born and bred in our holy reformation , and a church of england man ; you tell me i may believe this or that , and whatever i please , i would gladly settle once for ever , and resolve what i may , and ought to believe , and not to be every day carried away with every wind of doctrin : let me , to that purpose propose unto you , and hear your resolution of some doubts . what do you think , have not we a church on earth establisht by christ , wherein we are to live and serve him , and believe her doctrin ? isaac . i will give you no other instruction nor answer but the pure doctrin of the reformation , which when you have heard , you may determine as you like best , what religion to embrace ; but know this , that after you have determin'd with your self to believe this or that , you may with a very safe conscience alter that resolution next day after , and believe the quite contrary to what you resolve to believe , if upon better consideration you think the contrary to be true ; this is the liberty of the holy reformation , as i proved in my first dialogue . as to your present doubt i answer , it 's the doctrin of the reformation , that it was jesus christ the son of god who establisht the church , you may believe it therefore : it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , that it was not jesus christ the son of god who establisht the church : that this is the doctrin of our reformation it 's apparent , for it's scripture as interpreted by ochinus a man of sound judgment , whom all italy could not match , says calvin ; in whose presence england was happy , and unhappy in his absence , says b. bale : ochinus speaks thus , a considering how the church was establisht by christ and washt with his blood ; and considering again how it was utterly overthrown by papacy ; i concluded that he who establisht it , could not be christ the son of god , because he wanted providence ; and upon this reflection , he renounced christ and became a jew . and no man can say but that he acted and behaved himself like a true child of the reformation in so doing , for he followed scripture as he understood it ; and as he was a true reformed child in forsaking popery , because he understood by scripture , that the reformation was better ; so since he understood by reading scripture more , that judaism was better than the reformation , he acted like a good reformed , in chusing that which he understood by scripture to be the best ; this is the reformations rule of faith ; do you , if you please , as he did , and you 'll be as good a reformed as he . and if you chuse to believe that there is a church establisht on earth by christ , you must beware never to believe or perswade your self that we are bound to believe her doctrin , or live in her , if you do not judge by scripture that she teaches the doctrin of christ : this is the most essential point of popery , an obligation of submitting our judgments to the church , and believing her doctrin without any more examining , and in this the church of england is much like the popish church , which by acts of parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her doctrin , rites and ceremonies : no , god has given us scripture for our rule of faith , as we forsook the popish church , because we discovered by scripture her many errours in doctrin ; so we are not bound to believe the doctrin of any other church , but as we find by scripture her doctrin is true . do , and speak as luther to . edit . jen. in resolut . i will be free , and will not submit to the authority of councils , popes , church or vniversity ; to the contrary i will confidently teach whatever i judge to be true ; whether it be catholick doctrin or heretical ; condemned or approved . ismael . must i not believe that the doctrin of jesus christ , delivered to his apostles and the church is true doctrin ? isaac . the reformation teaches , it is , and you may safely believe it : you may as safely believe it is not , in the principles of the reformation ; because it teaches that christ err'd in doctrin and manners : vere pharisaei erant viri valde boni , says luther , ; b and christus minime debuit eos taxare : and calvin says , c it 's a folly to think he was not ignorant in many things ; lastly , david georgius d ( a man of god and of a holy life says osiander ) writes , if the doctrin of christ and his apostles had been true and perfect , the church which they planted had continued , but now it is manifest that antichrist has subverted it , as it 's manifest in papacy : therefore it was false and imperfect . see these words quoted in the history of david george , printed by the divines of basil , at antwerp . anno. both doctrines are scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment ; a child of the reformation , may believe which he will. ismael . is it not the doctrin of the reformation that the apostles were infallible in their doctrin ? much more must we believe that jesus christ was so . isaac . yes it is ; you may believe it : and it 's also the doctrin of the reformation that they were not infallible , neither in their written or unwritten doctrin , so many of our most renowned doctors speak , and whatever any men of sound judgment judge to be true by scripture , is the doctrin of the reformation : zuinglius , e one of the greatest oracles of our church says , it 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible authority in the gospels or epistles of the apostles ; beza , not inferiour to zuinglius , blotted out of st. john the history of the woman adulteress , judging it a fable ; clebitius f affirms , that luke's relation of christ's passion is not true , because it does not agree with that of matthew and mark , and more credit is to be to two , than to one . g calvin says , peter consented to , and added to the schism of the church , to the overthrow of christian liberty , and christ's grace . h whitaker says , it 's evident that after the descent of the holy gospel , the whole church , even the apostles , erred ; and peter erred in doctrin and manners . i luther says peter lived and taught extra verbum dei ; and brentius k his disciple say , that peter and barnabas together with the church of jerusalem erred after receiving the holy ghost . if our rule of faith be scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it , undoubtedly this must be the doctrin of the reformation , and may be believed by any reformed , since it's scripture interpreted by such renowned men . ismael . this is most wicked doctrin , i 'll never believe it , isaac . if you think by scripture it 's wicked , do not : follow your rule of faith , scripture as you understand it ; but if any other understands by scripture ▪ ( as those authors did ) that the doctrin is good , give him leave to believe it ; he 'll but follow his rule of faith , scripture as he understands it . ismael . i would gladly know which are the true canonical books of scripture . isaac . the reformation teaches , and you may believe with the church of england , that st. paul's epistle to the hebrews , those of james and jude : the . of st. peter ; the . and . of st. john , are true canonical scripture ; the reformation also teaches they are not canonical , because lutherans deny them ; believe which you like best . but if you 'll live in peace , and out of all strife with protestants , lutherans , and others , who dispute , if this or that be canonical scripture ; your readiest and speediest way will be , to say there 's no true canonical scripture ; scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious books : if you say this is not the doctrin of the reformation , read hossias de expresse verbo dei , & lib. de har. where he relates this to be the doctrin of the swinfeldians , as good reformers as the best of us : they say , that we are not to regard any instruction from man or book , but gods immediate inspiration , which speaks secretly to our hearts ; for which they alledge those comfortable words of the prophet , i will hear what my lord my god speaks in me : for say they , the book which we call scripture , is a creature , and we must not seek for light and instruction from any creature , but from god the father of lights . this is scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment ; any child of the reformation may believe it . ismael . i thought to settle my mind in my choice of some religion , and you go the way to beat me from all , for if you renverse the authority of scripture , what warrant shall we have for any religion ? god forbid the reformation should deny the true canon , or the infallible truth of scripture ; and let all the world say the contrary , i will constantly aver and believe it's gods infallible word . isaac . how can you say i beat you from all religion , when i directly perswade you to follow the rule of faith of our reformation , scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ; let this be your religion , if you will be a true reformed ; whatever you judge in your conscience to be true , let the church of england , or france , or any other say and believe what they will , you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true ; and this is the religion of the reformation . ismael . i would gladly know , if it be lawful to chop or change the text ? isaac . it 's the doctrine of the reformation that you cannot , because god has forbid to add to , or take away from his word : and therefore we condemn the papists for their tradition , obtruded upon the flock as the word of god : it 's also the doctrine of the reformation , and the practice of our best reformers , when the text does not speak clear enough , that for to refute popery and establish our own doctrine , we may add or diminish a word or two ; which is not to change the word of god , but to make it speak more expresly : as when luther had a mind to prach justification by faith alone , finding the text said but , man is justified by faith , he added the word alone and made the text very clear against popery , which formerly was somewhat obscure : zuinglius being to teach the figurative presence of christ in the sacrament , found the text , this is my body , to be too pat against his doctrine and instead of is , put in this signifieth . the church of england being to preach the kings spiritual supremacy , could not convince the obstinate papist by the original text , which said pet. . submit your selves unto every humane creature for the lord's sake , whether it be the king as excelling , or to , &c. but in king edwards time they altered one word , and made the text thus , submit your selves to every ordinance of man , whether it be to the king , as being the chief head , and the following impressions of the bible , in the year . and . say , to the king as supreame . and so the true doctrine is clearly convinc'd out of scripture , as also the lawfulness of priests marriage ; for the text before the reformation said cor. . have we not power to lead about a woman sister ; and now our bibles say , have we not power to lead about a wife being our sister : hence it 's evident according to the doctrine and practice of our reformation , that when you have a mind to establish a doctrine which you judge to be true , you may change the text and make it speak to your sense and meaning , provided you judge your sense to be true . ismael . what do you think of justifying faith ? does faith alone justify us ? isaac . it 's the doctrine of the reformation , that without charity it cannot , because st. paul says cor. . if i have faith so as to move mountains , and no charity , i am nothing . it 's also the doctrine of the reformation , that it is impious and wicked to say , faith alone without charity does not justify ; this is scipture as interpreted by luther a man of sound judgment : l who say , quoth luther , that faith alone though perfect it be , cannot justify without charity , say impiously and wicked , because faith alone , without any good works doth justifie . believe which doctrine you please , both are of the reformation . ismael . luther was insolent in checking the doctrine of st. paul. isaac . probably he did not reflect that it was the doctrine of the apostle , and if you will have it to be a check of st. paul luther m will answer for himself , be it , says he , that the church , augustine or other doctors , also peter and paul , nay , and an angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as i teach , yet my doctrine is such , that it seteth forth gods glory ; i know i teach no humane , but divine doctrine . it 's the doctrine of the reformation , that faith alone , without any good works , and notwithstanding all sins you are guilty of , doth justifie you : this is scripture , as interpreted by luther , who says , nothing can damn you but incredulity , as nothing but faith can save you ; of whitaker , wotton , fulk , and beza , whose words i related in our precedent dialogue which i believe you remember , and i need not repeat . it 's also the doctrine of the reformation , that good works are meritorious of grace and glory ; n hooker and harmonia confess . o say it 's the doctrine of scripture ; and what any person of sound judgment judges to be the doctrine of scripture , he may believe it , for this is our rule of faith. it 's likewise the doctrine generally of all our church , that good works are not at all meritorious : tindall ( called by fox p , a man of god , and a constant martyr ) judges this to be so true , that in his treatise de mammona iniquitatis , he says , christ himself did not by all his good works merit the glory : and tho' the scripture says expresly he did , calvin q affirms , that it 's a foolish curiosity to examine , and a rash proposition to say christ did merit . it 's the doctrine of the reformation , that tho' good works be not meritorious , nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation , yet they are absolutely needful for both , in as much as that true faith cannot be without good works , because they are the marks and signs of a living faith , by whch alone we are saved ; this is the judgment of the church of england expressed in the and articles of the , and of melancthon in locis commun . de bonis operibus , and you may believe it : you may also believe , and it 's the doctrine of the reformation , that good works are so far from being needful , that they are prejudicious and hurtful to our salvation , and the best way to be saved , is to do no good work at all ; this is scripture as interpreted by illiricus , flacius , amsdorsius , quoted in act. colloq . aldeburg . pag. . and . and luther r was so deeply perswaded of this truth , tho that christ said , if thou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven , keep the commandment : luther says , it 's an obstacle to our salvation to keep them : where it is said , quoth he , that faith in christ doth indeed justify us , but that it is necessary also to keep the commandments , there christ is denyed , and faith abolish'd , because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed if the commandments . and again , ſ says he , if faith be accompanied with good works , it 's no true faith ; that it may justify it must be alone without any good works . this is scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound men ; and consequently the doctrine of the reformation ; and who doubts but that any doctrine of the reformation may be believed . hence forward , when you hear the preacher exhort you to good works , you may believe him if you please , and have a mind to spend your monys , because he preaches the doctrine of the reformation ; or you may laugh at him , and believe not a word he says , because he preaches against the doctrine of the reformation . ismael . these are dangerous and scandalous tenets , destructive of piety and christianity ; and let luther and those authors you quoted , say what they please , the reformation , nor no honest man will ever believe such abominable doctrine . isaac . i do not say that the children of the reformation are obliged to believe them : they may believe as you do , that all are wicked tenets : but if luther and the others cited , judge in their conscience these tenets to be the doctrine of scriptures , and if peter , john or james , like their interpretation , i say they may according to the principles of our reformation believe them , and be as truly reformed children as you ; for our rule of faith is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it ; and in believing those tenets , because they judge them to be the doctrine of scripture they stick fast to , and follow our rule of faith : why is figurative presence and the kings supremacy , the doctrine of the reformation , tho' denied by papists , lutherans , and presbyterians ; but because the protestants judg it's the doctrine of scripture : if therefore those great authors i quoted , and any other with them , judge those tenets to be the doctrine of scripture , they can be justly called the doctrine of the reformation : must protestants be forced against their judgments to deny real presence , and supremacy , because lutherans say it's wicked doctrine . and why must luther , illiricus , flaccius , and others be forced to deny those tenets , tho' protestants or papists judge them to be damnable ? let each one believe what he thinks to be the doctrine of scripture , and he will still be a true reformed child . ismael does not our reformation teach that 't is possible to all men , assisted with god's grace , to keep the commandments ? isaac . this is the doctrine of the church of england , and consequently of the reformation : it 's also the doctrine of the reformation delivered out of scripture , as interpreted by luther , calvin , willet , and several others , that it 's impossible to any man assisted with what grace soever to keep the commandments . none has ever yet , says our great calvin , t and god has decreed none shall ever keep the commandments : again , u the law and commandments were given us , to no other end , but that we should be damn'd by them ; inasmuch , that it is impossible for vs to do what they command . the same doctrine is taught by luther , in several places of his works , by willet x and by our brethren the gomarists of holland , and many of our french synods . believe which you please both doctrines are of the reformation . it 's also the doctrine of luther and calvin , that god does not cast men into hell because their sins deserve it , nor save men because they merit it , but meerly because he will have it for he crowns those who have not deserved it ; says luther , y and he punishes those who have not deserved it ; 't is gods wrath and severity to damn the one , 't is gods grace and mercy to save the other . calvin also , z men are damn'd for no other cause , but because god will have it so ; he is the cause and author of their damnation ; their damnation is decreed by god when when they are in their mothers womb , because he will have it so ; this is also the belief of our gomarists in holland , of many french churches , and of several learned calvinists ; though the church of england denies this doctrine , none will dare say it is not the doctrine of the reformation , because it is scripture as interpreted by such eminent men of our church . ismael . i will never believe such execrable doctrines , nor will i ever be of any congregation which believes them . isaac . i do not advise you to believe them ; but to give others leave to believe them , if they think them to be the doctrine of scripture ; as luther , calvin , willet , gomarists , and others do : you must not , if you be a true reformed child hinder any man from believing , nor be displeased with him for believing what he judges in his conscience to be the doctrine of scripture , for this is our rule of faith. will not you be of the congregation and religion of those , who follow scripture as their rule of faith , and believe what they judge in their conscience to be the doctrine of scripture ? ismael . yes i will , and am of such a congregation , for this is the rule of faith of the reformation . isaac . why then , you must be of the same congregation with the gomarists , luther , calvin , and the others , who believe those which you call execrable doctrines , because they follow scripture as they understand ; and believe those doctrines , because they judge them to be of scriture : you both follow the same rule , one goes one way , and the other another , and both are of the reformation . the church of england understands by scripture , that god is not the author nor cause of sin , that he does not force us to sin ; who doubts but that this is therefore the doctrine of the reformation ? but calvin , brentius , beza , and several others understand by scripture , that god is the cause and author which forces our will to sin ; that man , and the devil , are but gods instruments to commit it : that murthers , incests , blasphemies , &c. are the works of god , that he makes us commit them : and who doubts but this also is the doctrine of the reformation , being scripture as interpreted , by such eminent and sound judgment ? god , says calvin , a directs , moves , inclines and forces the will of man to sin ; insomuch that the power and efficacy of working , is wholly in him ; man , nay , and satan when he impells us , being only gods instruments which he uses for to make us sin. zuinglius , willet , beza , teach the same . sixth dialogue . ismael . i am weary of hearing such horrid blasphemies ; my heart trembles to hear you say , that such abominable tenets may be believed according to our rule of faith and principles of the reformation : i beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff : i conceive very well that mens judgments and consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny , this or that tenet , because the pope , or his infallible , forsooth , church , will have it so . isaac . and must they be constrain'd to deny or believe , because the fallible church of england or france will have it so ? ismael . no , i do not say they must , have patience , and hear me speak a while : i say that scripture must be our rule of faith , and not any pope , or church , or congregation ; and that we are not to be forced by any to believe , but what we understand to be true by scripture ; and that if we judge by scripture , any doctrine to be false , and contrary to gods word , we must not be forced to believe it : but we must not abuse this liberty ; that we should have liberty for to believe or deny supremacy , figurative presence , communion in one or both kinds , and such other inferiour truths controverted among christians ; and that each congregation may in such articles , believe as it understands by scripture to be true , may pass , and it 's practised in our reformed churches ; but that we should run so far , as to have liberty by our rule of faith to believe or deny the fundamental and chief articles of christianity , as the trinity , incarnation , divinity of christ , amp ; c. that liberty ought not to be given : our reformation very wisely and piously permits the lutherans to believe one thing , the presbyterians another , the protestants another , and so of the rest : and all are true reformed children , because each of them believes as they judge by scripture to be true : but the reformation has never given , nor never will give liberty to interpret scripture against the fundamental article of christianity : we must be moderate , and keep our rambling fancies within compass , and if any should judge and interpret scripture in favour of any scandalous and abominable tenets against christianity and good manners , he must be checked and not commended . this moderation the church of england uses , and will never permit to the contrary . isaac . i perceive a great deal of popish blood to run in your veins , and that if you and your church of england , were in power at the beginning of our reformation , we should never have had a luther , calvin , beza , or such other noble and renowned reformers . by what i gather from your discourse , i do not see the breadth of an inch's difference betwixt the church of rome , and you and your church of england , for the church of rome will not stick to grant , that gods word alone is her rule of faith , but so that none must believe any sense of it , but as she believes it , nor interpret any text , but receive her interpretation of it . the church of england has scripture for her rule of faith , and gives us liberty for to interpret , understand , and believe some text of it , as each one thinks best ; and so permits presbyterians to deny episcopacy , lutherans to deny figurative presence , &c. and confesses they are all her brethren of the reformation , but she will give no liberty at all for to interpret other texts , but all must understand them as she does , or all must hereticks and damn'd men ? no , that text my father , and i are one , must be interpreted to signifie the unity in nature of the father and son , as the church of england believes , none must interpret it otherwise : so that the difference betwixt the popish church and that of england , is , the first gives us no liberty at all , the second gives us some liberty , the first robs us of all ; the second but the one half . the rule of faith in popery is scripture as interpreted by the pope and councils ; the rule of faith in england ; as to some articles is scripture as interpreted by the church of england ; and as to other articles , scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it , and thus protestants are but half papists , and half reformed , and both these ingredients will never make a good compound . let any unbyass'd and impartial man judge if the church of england proceeds justly in this : for if our rule of faith be scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it , as she mentions in her . articles ; and as the whole reformation believes , if we are not to be constrained , to believe any church , council , or mans sense of scripture , if we do not judge by the word of god it 's true , by what authority , rule or reason , can the church of england give me liberty to understand and believe some texts as i please , and deny me liberty for to understand and believe others , as i judge by scripture they ought to be understood ? i pray observe well this discourse ; here are luther , calvin , beza , zuinglius , and our other first reformers ; they interpret some texts against the doctrine of rome , and others against the doctrine of the church of england . they are praised for the first , and esteemed apostolical reformers , because without any regard of what the church of rome said , they freely taught and believed what they judged by scripture to be true ; why must not they be praised and esteemed true reformers also , for not regarding what the church of england or any other says , but teach the impossibility of gods commandments , the sufficiency of faith alone , and all those other tenets which you so much mislike , since they judge by scripture that to be the true doctrine ? are they bound to submit their judgments to the church of england , more than to that of rome ? ismael . but in those tenets they do not only contradict the church of england , but all christian churches and congregations ; for all will say those are wicked and scandalous . doctrines . isaac . and if they judge by scripture that those tenets are not such , but found and good doctrine , may not they believe them , tho' all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them ? is not scripture our rule of faith , and are we to regard what any church or all churches say , further than we find by scripture that they say well ? but being these tenets , which you call horrid blasphemies displease you , i 'll change my discourse ; and because i see you are popishly inclin'd , i will shew you how by the principles of our reformation , you can be as good a papist as the pope ; one principle , excepted , wherein you must dissent from the church of rome , if you intend to remain a true reformed child . ismael . you promise too much , and more than i desire to know , i don't desire to have any communication with the pope ; i know by the writings of our authors what kind of beast he is . isaac . by your favour , you may believe the popes are worthy , honest , and godly men : many doctors of our reformation , and our travellers to the court of rome give this testimony of them . you may also believe , that popes and cardinals are knaves and atheists , who look on scripture as a romance , and deny the incarnation of christ , for calvin says l so , and would never have said it , if it had not been true : but beware not to speak so in rome , or they 'll lodge you where honest taylor the quaker was ; nor in spain , or they 'll stop your mouth with an inquisition faggot . ismael . i care not what the pope or cardinals are ; but i would gladly know , what religion and congregation you are of , for whereas you are my immediate instructer , it behoves me to know what religion you have . isaac . as to my religion , i doubt not but that my readers will be divided in their judgments of me ; if a papist reads me , he 'll swear i am an atheist ; but i hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his pope : if a protestant , he 'll say i am a papist , and that my drift is to cast dirt upon his church ; the honest quaker will say , i am a profane man ; others perhaps will say , i am of no religion , but a despiser of all ; and our congregations are so uncharitable that likely none will accept of me , because i say all religions are very good : a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his neighbours , and that each one must have all the world to be naught but himself : this then is my religion , to suffer persecution for justice and truth ; to render good for evil , to bless those who curse me , and speak well of all congregations , whilst they speak all evil against me : reflect well upon what i discoursed hitherto , and you will find , i am as great a lover of the reformation as they who may think me it's enemy : and read my following discourse , and you will find i love popery as well as the reformation : the spirit of god makes no exceptions of persons . ismael . you promised to prove by the principles of the reformation , that we may believe all the tenets of popery , and remain still of the reformation : how can this be ? isaac . you remember i excepted one principle of popery , wherein you must necessarily dissent from them : and if you deny this one principle , you may believe all their other tenets as well as the pope , and be as good a child of the reformation as luther . ismael . what principle is this , which you seem to make the only destinctive sign of a reformed , from a papist ? isaac . listen a while : a papist is not a papist because he believes purgatory , transubstantiation , indulgences , and the rest of popish tenets , but because he believes them upon the testimony of the pope and church , because they assure him they are revealed truths : if a papist did say , i believe these tenets , because i my self do judge by scripture , that they are revealed , and not because the pope and church say they are , he would be no papist . the papist believes the mystery of the trinity , the incarnation and passion of christ , the protestant believes the same mysteries , yet the one is a papist and no protestant , the other is a protestant and no papist . and why ? because the papist believes them upon the testimony of the pope and church ; the protestant believes them upon the testimony of gods written word . believe then whatever you please of popery , provided you believe it ; because you judge by scripture it 's true , and not because the pope or the church says it ; you 'll never be a papist but a perfect reformed . ismael . if this discourse be solid , you may hedge in all the articles of popery into our reformation . isaac . if you peruse the works of our reformed doctors , you 'll hardly find any article of popery , but has been judged by many , or some of our best reformed doctors , to be the true doctrine of scripture ; and whereas any doctrin which any person of sound judgment understands by scripture to be the true , may be justly called the doctrin of the reformation ; it follows that hardly is there any article of popery , for which we see so many persecutions against subjects , and such troubles in our parliaments , but is truly the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . shew me some examples of this . isaac . the veneration of relicks and saints dead bones , is generally believed by us to be meer popery and superstition , therefore we made no store of luther and calvins bones , tho we know them to be as great saints as any in the popish church : but veneration of relicks and saints bones , is the doctrin of our reformation ; for whatever is set down and commended by our common-prayer-book , must be undoubtedly esteemed our reformed doctrin and practice , and our common-prayer-book , aprinted since our kings happy restauration , in it's kalendar sets down a day to the translation of s. edward king of saxons body in the month of june , and dedicates another to the translation of the bodies of st. martin and swithin , in the month of july . the veneration and use of the sign of the cross , is flat popery in the judgment of all our congregations ; yet any reformed child may laudably and piously use it ; whereas our common-prayer book in the administration of baptism , commands the minister to use it , saying , we sign him with the sign of the cross , in token that hereafter he shall not be ashamed , to confess the faith of christ crucified , and manfully to fight under his bannar against sin , the world and the devil . and in our kalender , printed since his majesties restauration , it 's called the holy cross . our congregations generally believe , it 's popery to keep holy-days ( except the sabbath day ) and saints days ; to fast in lent , vigils commanded , ember-days , and fridays ; and all this is recommended to us in our common-payer book , and the minister is commanded , in the administration of the lords supper , to publish the holy-days of the week , and exhort us to fast ; and surely , he is not commanded to teach , or exhort us to any thing , but to the doctrin of the reformation : it 's true , the students of our colledges of oxford and cambridge , are much troubled with scruples in this point : these pauperes de lugduno , are compelled to fast all fridays throughout the year ; and it 's not hunger that makes them complain , but tenderness of conscience , because they fear it's popery . it 's a popish errour , we say to believe that pennance , or our penal works of fasting , alms-deeds , or corporal austerities , can avail and help for the remission of our sins , and satisfying gods justice : no , we say , penal works serve for nothing , all is done by repentance ; that 's to say , by sorrow of heart for having offended god. this is the doctrin of danaeus , willit , junius and calvin , who says , francis , dominick , bernard , antony , and the rest of popish monks and fryers , are in hell for their austerities and penal works for all that , you may very well believe ; and it 's the doctrin of the reformation , that pennance and penal works , do avail for the remission of our sin , and are very profitable to the soul ; for , our common-prayer book in the commination against sinners , says thus , in the primitive church , there was a godly discipline , that at the beginning of lent , such as were notorious sinners , were put to open pennance , and punish'd in this world , that their souls may be saved in the day of the lord. and our common-prayer books wishes that this discipline were restored again ; and surely it does not wish that popery were restored ; therefore it 's no popery to say that pennance , or penal works , do satisfie for our sins in this world , and avail to save us in the other . ismael . i know many of our congregation mislike much our common-prayer book , for these popish-tenets ; but what do you say of the grand errours of popery ? can a man be a true child of the reformation , and yet believe the popes supremacy ? deny the kings supremacy ; believe transubstantiation and communion in one kind ; are these tenets the doctrin of the reformation , or consistent with its principles ? isaac . the kings supremacy is undoubtedly the doctrin of the reformation , because it 's judged by the church of england to be of scripture , yet not only the quakers , presbyterians , anabaptists , and other congregations , judge it 's not of scripture , but as erroneous a tenet as that of the popes supremacy ; calvin . amos , says , they were unadvised people and blasphemers , who raised king henry the vii . so far as to call him the head of the church ; but also that no civil magistrate can be the head of any particular church , is the doctrin of the centuriators , cent . sept . pag. . of cartwright , viretus , kemnitius , and many others ; who doubts then but that in the principles and doctrin of the reformation , you may deny the kings supremacy , tho' the church of england believes it . the popes supremacy is the doctrin of popery , who doubts it ? but it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , for many of our eminent doctors have judged it to be the doctrine of scripture , as whitgift a who cites calvin and musculus for this opinion ; but it 's needful we relate some of their express words , i do not deny , says luther , b but the bishop of rome , is , has been , and ought to be first of all ; i believe , he is above all other bishops , it 's not lawful to deny his supremacy : melancthon c says no less , that the bishop of rome is above all the church , that it is his office to govern , to judge in controversies , to watch over the priests , to keep all nations in conformity and unity of doctrin : somaisius , d the pope of rome has been without controversie the first metropolitan in italy , and not only in italy , nor only in the west , but in all the world , the other metropolitans have been chief in their respective districts , but the pope of rome has been metropolitan and primate , not only of some particular diocess , but of all , grotius e has expresly the same doctrin , and proves this supremacy belongs to the pope de jure divino . i pray consider if these doctors be not men of sound judgment , and of eminent learning and credit in our reformation , and if our doctrin be scripture as such men understand it , consider , i say , with what justice can this doctrin be called popery more than reformed doctrin . as for transubstantiation , it contains two difficulties ; first , if the body of christ be really in the sacrament ; and this real presence , the lutherans defend to be the doctrin of scripture , as well as the papists , why then should it be called popish , more than reformed doctrin ? the second is , if the substance of bread be in the sacrament together with christ's body : lutherans say it is , papists say it is not , but that there is a transubstantiation , or change of the whole substance of bread , into the body of christ ; but hear what luther f says of this that we call popish doctrin ; i give all persons liberty to believe in this point , what they please , without hazard of their salvation , either that the bread is in the sacrament of the altar , or that it is not ? would luther have given this liberty if transubstantiation had not been the doctrin of the reformation as well as any other ? calvin also and beza h affirm , that luthers doctrin of the co-existence of christ's . body and the bread , is more absurd than the popish doctrin of the existence of the body alone ; if therefore we be true reformed , and safely believe the doctrin of luther , which is the most absurd ; much more will we be of the reformation , by believing that of the papists which is less . communion in one kind , is the doctrin of the reformation , no less than communion in both ; for besides that luther says , i they sin not g against christ who use one kind only , seeing christ has not commanded to use both ; and again , k though it were an excellent thing to use both kinds in the sacrament ; and christ has commanded nothing in this as necessary , yet it were better to follow peace and unity , than to contest about the kinds , but also melancthon l who in the opinion of luther surpasses all the fathers of the church , expresly teaches the same doctrin : and the church of england statute i. edward vi. command , that the sacrament be commonly administr'd in both kinds , if necessity does not require otherwise ; mark , he says , but commonly , and that for some necessity it may be received in one ; lastly , the sufficiency of one kind in the sacrament , is plainly set down by our reformed church of france , in her ecclesiastical discipline , printed at saumur , chap. . art. . the minister must give the bread in the supper to them , who cannot drink the cup , provided it be not for contempt . and the reason is because there are many who cannot endure the taste of wine ; wherefore it often happens among them , that some persons , do take the bread alone ; and truly if some of our ministers in england , do not give better wine than they are accustomed , who very irreverently serve that holy table with naughty trash , it 's much to be feared , that our flock will also petition to be dispenc'd with in the cup ; because there are some of so delicate palats , that they cannot endure the taste of bad wine . now , you may admire the injustice of the papists in condemning our reformed doctrin and doctors as hereticks , whereas those tenets are believed by many of us , as well as by them ; and the groundless severity of our congregations in exclaiming against that doctrin ; it being the doctrin of the reformation , whereas so many eminent men of our own , judge it to be of scripture . ismael . whereas i see people persecuted by the church of england for these tenets , i can hardly be perswaded they are the doctrin of the reformation : at our next meeting we will persue this discourse , the bell rings for morning prayers , a dieu . seventh dialogue . isaac . you come from church , as i guess by the common-prayer book i see in your hand , i pray let me see the kalender of it , if it be a la mode nouvelle , which was made by the church of england , since his majesties restauration . ismael . why ? have you met any thing in it , which shocks you ? isaac . shock me ? no doctrin or practice of any congregation , or man of sound judgment of our church can shock me ; you know , i plead for liberty to believe and practise as each one judges by scripture to be true and good . but i observe in your kalender , you have a day consecrated to st. ann in the month of july ; i would gladly know , what ann this is , which the church of england honours so much ? ismael . it 's ann the mother of the virgin mary . isaac . it 's possible ? i thought it was ann bolein the mother of our virgin elizabeth : i am sure the church of england , is more obliged to her , than to the other : but as you have put here the mother of the virgin mary , why did not you put in also elizabeth mother of the great baptist ; and the angel gabriel , as well as michael ? ismael , i know not indeed . isaac . nor do i know , if it be not , because that elizabeth and gabriel made the popish ave maria , as scripture relates ; but can you tell , as the church of england put in your kalender , st. george , st. andrew and st. david patrons of england , scotland and wales ; why did not she put in st. patrick patron of ireland ? ismael . i can't tell , what may be the reason , think you ? isaac . i know not , if it be not that he forfeited his place for his purgatory ; for tho the others were as deep in popery as he , ( if we believe the papists ) but the parliament pass'd an act of indemnity for england , scotland and wales , after the kings return to his kingdoms ; and thereby the sin of popery was forgiven to their patrons , and no act of indemnity was past for ireland , whereby patrick is still guilty ; if it be not , that the seven champions of christendom tell us st. patrick was st. george his footman , and it was not thought good manners , to put him in the same rank with his master . ismael . for shame , if not for pitty , forbear . i cannot endure to fully sacred things with profane ralleries ; the kalender is a holy institution of the church , and ought to be reverenc'd . isaac . and so is episcopacy , surplices , bells , organs , and corner caps ; yet i hope you will give presbyterians , anabaptists , quakers , &c. leave to laugh at them , and be still as good children of the reformation as you : if you esteem them to be sacred and holy , reverence and honour them , i commend you for it , if others judge otherwise let them follow their humour ; each one as he fancies , says the fellow kissing his com ; this is the holy liberty of the reformation , scripture as each one understands it . ismael . let us return to our last discourse ; how is it possible , that those tenets of popery , ●…ould be the doctrin of the reformation , where●● we see the church of england so severely per●●ecute the professors of them ? isaac . do you think a doctrin is not of the reformation , because it 's denyed by the church of england ? or because she persecutes the pro●essors of it ? do not they persecute all non-confor●ists , as well as popery ? persecution is no proof of a doctrin to be bad ; it 's but the effect of a blind zeal armed with power : for to know cer●ainly if a doctrin be of the reformation , you must try it by our test or rule of faith , which is the written word of god , and whatever any man of sound judgment , of a sincere and humble heart judges to be contained in scripture , or ●n indubitable consequence out of it ; that man , may believe that doctrin , let all others judge of it as they list , and by so believing will be a true child of the reformation ; wherefore since that the church of france , that of england in edward the vi 's time , luther , melancthon , grotius , and the other authors i quoted , do judge transubstantiation , popes supremacy , and communion in one kind to be the doctrin of scripture ; we must call it the doctrin of the reformation ; and if you judge as they did , you may believe the doctrin and be still of the reformation , as well as they . ismael . can you shew me any other tenet of popery , which you can call the doctrin of the reformation . isaac . alas ! you can hardly shew me any tenet of popery , but what is it's doctrin ; what doctrin more popish than that of confession and absolution from sins ? yet it 's as truly the doctrin of the reformation , as figurative presence : for not only a lobechius , b altamerus , c sacerius , and d melancthon says , it 's a sacrament : but the church of england in our common-prayer book , declares that priests have not only the power of declaring their sins to be forgiven to the penitents , but also the power of forgiving them ; and sets down the form of absolution , which the minister is to use , our lord jesus christ , who left power to the church to absolve all sinners which truly repent , of his mercy forgive thee and thine offences ; and i by his authority committed unto me , do absolve thee from all thy sins ; the minister of the diocess of of lincoln in their survey of the book of common prayers , checkt this doctrine as popery and petitioned to have it blotted out ; but could not prevail ; whereby we are given to understand , it 's the doctrine of the reformation . it 's popery , we say to call extream uuction , confirmation , and holy order of priest-hood , sacraments : and who can justly deny all this to be the doctrine of the re-formation ? for calvin e says , i confess , the disciples of christ did use ex●ream vnction as a sacrament ; i am not , says he , of the opinion of those , who judge it was only a me●●cine for corporal diseases : calvin f also , and with him our common prayer book and all our divines say , a sacrament is nothing else , but a visible sign of the invisible grace we receive by ●t ; and they say with g pouel , h hooker and others , that this definition fits exactly confirmation , wherefore the ministers of the diocess of lincoln checkt the common prayer book , for giving the definition of a sacrament to confirmation . i melancthon , k bilsom , l hooker and m calvin expresly teach , that the order of priesthood , is a sacrament . and when men of so eminent judgment of our reformation teach this to be the doctrine of scripture , who doubts but that it is of the reformation . ismael . by this , you destroy the doctrine of the reformation of two sacraments only . is . destroy it ? god forbid : because the church of england says , there are but two sacraments , i say it 's the doctrin of the reformation , there are but two , and because so many eminent men judge by scripture there are more , i say it 's the doctrin of the reformation there are more ▪ that 's to say six , baptism , confirmation , eucharist , pennance , extream unction and holy order : and very likely our bishops and ministers ▪ for their wives sake , will not stick to grant that matrimony also is a sacrament . ismael . but can you say , that prayers to saints and images , prayer for the dead , and purgatory , are not meer popery , and in no wise the the doctrine of reformation ? isaac . without doubt , those tenets are popery but all the world knows , the lutherans use images in their churches and pray before them ; and the holy synod of charenton has declared , as was said in our first dialogue , that the lutherans have nothing of superstition or idolatry in their manner of divine worship ; this is also the doctrine n of jacobus , andreas , o brachmanus , p kemnitius , luther and brentius quoted by beza , q and why should not a doctrine , judged by such eminent men to be of scripture , be called the doctrin of the reformation ? prayers for the dead and purgatory is popery confessedly ; but alas ! it is taught expresly by vrbans , regius , r bucer , ſ zuinglius , t melancthon , u luther , x the common-prayer book in king edward's time printed . and many others of our learned doctors , and what can you call more properly the doctrine of the reformation , than what such men teach to be the doctrine of scripture ? and though our brethren , quakers , anabaptists , presbyterians and protestants judge prayers to angels and saints to be nothing else but popery : yet our common-prayer book has the same collect or prayer to angels in st. michael's day , that the popish mass book has , and desires that the angels may succour and defend us on earth ; and prayers to , and intercession of saints is taught by luther , y bilneus and latimer quoted by fox , z and consequently it 's the doctrine of the reformation . ismael . if all these popish articles may be safely believed by the reformation , and be the doctrine of our reformed church , as well as of popery ; what difference then betwixt us and popery ; or why are we call'd a reformation of popery , or why did we separate from them ? isaac . i have told you already , that our difference from popery , is not , because we must deny what they believe , for we believe as well as they the unity and trinity of god , the incarnation of his son , &c. but in this , that the papists believe , because the pope and church says , this is true revealed doctrine , but we believe not because any church , pope , or doctor says so , but because we our selves judge by scripture it is so ; for if a papist did say , i do not believe this is a revealed truth , because the pope and church says it is , but because i find by scripture it is ; he would be no papist ; believe then whatever doctrine you will , either popery , judaism , protestancy , arianism , or what else you please , provided you judge by scripture it is true , and that you believe it , not because this or that church , congregations or doctors believe it , but because your self judges it to be true , you 'l be a true child of the reformation : and this is the reason why we are called a reformation and why we separated from them , because they would have us take for our rule of faith scripture as interpreted by them , and believe not what we judge to be the doctrine of scripture , but what they judge ; and this is also the reason why presbyterians are jealous with the church of england ; why anabaptis●s forsake presbyterians ; why these are forsaken by quakers , because each one would have the world judge as they do , and persecute and trouble one another , which is quite against the spirit of the reformation , for whereas our rule of faith is no church , congregation , or man , but scripture as each one understands it ; it follows that by our principles every one must he permitted to believe whatever he pleases , and by so doing , he will be a true child of the reformation . ismael . the church of england , nor any of our congregations , will never believe any of those popist tenets . isaac . the time may come that they may believe them all , and be still as good reformers as now they are ? for if the pope and his church should to morrow deny and excommunicate those tenets , which now they so steadfastly believe , ( and i hope they will some day , ) then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all reformed children , to believe them all , as much as now they deny them : and let us pretend what other reasons we please , but it 's very certain that the strongest reason we can have to deny those articles , is because the pope and his church believes them , and consequently , if the popish church would but deny them , we might and ought to believe them , you will think this a paradox ; but listen to our apostolical and divine luther : a if a general council , says he , did permit priests to marry , it would be a singular marke of piety , and sign of godliness , in that case to take concubines , rather than to marry in conformity to the decree of the council , i would in that case command priests not to marry under pain of damnation . and again he says , b if the council should decree communion in both kinds ; in contempt of the council , i would take one only or none . see these words of luther , quoted by our learned hospinian , c and jewel , d and see it 's not only my doctrine but of great luther , that in case the pope and council deny all the tenets they now believe ; we may , and it will be a pious godly action to believe them , and make as many acts of parliament for them , as now we have against them . but what 's the matter ? methinks you become pale , something troubles you , speak , what is it ? ismael . it 's the horror i conceive against your discourse , my countenance cannot be in a calm , when my mind is in such a storm and confusion : pursue no more , you said enough that i should curse the day i have ever seen you , or heard that which you call holy liberty , which is but a prostitution of consciences a prophanation of all that is sacred , and an open gap to all impiety in doctrine and manners : but i hope the lord has given me that profound respect and attach to our holy reformation , that i shall not be beaten from it by all your engines , able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weak brother , for who would live a moment in it , if such impious tenets , such scandalous and blasphemous doctrines were of it , or were unavoidable sequels out of its principles : no , no the principles of the reformed church are sound and orthodox , and no doctrine can follow from them , but what 's pure and true . isaac . let me tell you i have as tender a love for the reformation as you : and i will maintain the holy liberty i assert , cannot justly be called a prostitution of consciences ; for , you dare not deny but this is an orthodox and sound principle , that our rule of faith is scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ; that it is lawful for each person of sound judgment to read it , to give his judgment of the true sense of it , and to believe and hold that sense of it , which he thinks in his conscience to be true ; is there any prostitution of consciences in this doctrin ? or is it not the doctrin of our reformation ? ismael . all this is true , the prostitution of consciences lyes not there , but in the scandalous and blasphemous tenets , which you pretend that follow out of the rule of faith. isaac . but you wrong the reformation in calling such tenets blasphemies and scandals : for since our rule of faith is scripture , as each person of sound judgment understands it ; if this rule of faith be good and sound , if it be religious and holy , any doctrin that is conformable to this rule , must be good , sound , religious and holy ; this being our rule of faith and manners , it 's clearer than day light , that all and each other tenet which i rehearsed in all my former discourses , are conformable to our rule of faith ; for our rule is scripture as each man of sound judgment understands it . our doctrin therefore must be , what any person of sound judgment understands to be the doctrin of scripture : this is an evident sequel out of that principle , and whereas there is not one tenet of all those which i rehearsed , whether they concern doctrin or manners ; but was judged by the doctors , which i cited for it , to be the doctrine of scripture ; it follows unavoidably , that there is not one tenet of them but is the doctrin of the reformation : therefore you must be forced to either of these two ; either to say that our rule of faith , by which such doctrines are warranted , is naught , wicked and scandalous , and leads to a prostitution of consciences and manners ; or that all those tenets , are good , sound , pious , and no prostitution or corruption of our consciences : for , pick and chuse out the doctrin which you think to be the most wicked and scandalous of all those i rehearsed ; you cannot deny , but that it was taught by the author i quoted for it and judged by him , to be the doctrin of scripture . and if no doctor hitherto had believed it , you or i , or some other person of sound judgment , may judge it to be the doctrine of scripture ; either of both , then you must be constrained to grant . or that the doctrin of the reformation , is not what each person of sound judgment understands to be the doctrin and sense of scripture , which is as much as to say , that our rule of faith must not be scripture as we understand it , but that we must believe against our own judgment and conscience , what others say is the doctrin and sense of scripture : or you must grant that all and each of those tenets i rehearsed , is the doctrin of the reformation , tho you , or this or that man may judge them to be blasphemies and scandals . ismael . i confess our rule of faith in the reformation is scripture as each person understands it ; for all our reformed churches , with the church of england , in her articles , do give us this rule of faith. i confess consequently out of this principle , that we must not believe what doctrin or sense of scripture others judge to be true and orthodox , if we do not our selves judge it to be such , for we must not be forced to believe , against our judgments : lastly , i confess we may safely believe , whatsoever doctrins we seriously judge to be the doctrin of scripture , but provided , that such a tenet or doctrin be not plainly against scripture , and be not plain and down-right impiety and blasphemy . isaac . and in case you , or the church of england , rome , france , or germany , judge a doctrin to be blasphemous and against scripture , and luther , or calvin , or i , or another , judge it is good doctrin and conformable to scripture , to which judgment must i stand ? must i believe yours against my conscience and knowledge ? or must not i believe my own ? is it not the principle and practice of our reformation , that i must believe what i judge in my conscience to be scripture , and not what others judge , if they judge the contrary ? when luther began the reformation , did not almost all christians and the whole church believe purgatory and prayers to saints to be the doctrine of scripture ? and did not he very commendably deny it against them all , because he judged by scripture it was not ? will a presbyterian believe episcopacy , because the church of england says it 's the doctrine of scripture ? no , but deny it because himself judges it is not . ismael . it 's true , each one may lawfully believe what himself judges to be the doctrine of scripture , provided he be a godly , well intentioned man , humble and meek in spirit : provided secondly that what he understands to be the sence and doctrine of scripture , be not absurd and impious in the judgment of all the rest of the faithful : for let a man be ever so learned and godly ; if he gives an interpretation of scripture which is denied by all the church , he must not be followed . isaac . your first proviso is very good , and i hope you will meet no doctor of all those i quoted for those tenets , which you call blasphemies , who was not a learned , godly , humble , and well intentioned man , who will be so bold as to deny it of luther , calvin , beza zuinglius , & c. ? your second proviso is not just , and in it you overthrow the whole reformation ; and our rule of faith ; for this being as you granted ; scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ; whatever interpretation or sense any man of sound judgment understands to be of scripture , he may safely and piously believe it , tho' all the rest of the world should judge it to be impious and blasphemous , otherwise our rule of faith , must not be scrip●ure as we understand it , but as it is understood by others : and whereas no tenet of all those i rehearsed , but was judged to be the sense and doctrin of scripture , by some of those eminent doctors i quoted , it follows they might have safely believed them ; and if you or i judge as they did , we may also believe as they did , and be still of the reformation . ismael . it 's wicked and pernicious to say any particular person may believe his own private sense and interpretation of scripture , if it be judged by all others to be naught ; and therefore the church of england prudently and wisely puts a stop and bridle to the extravagant and rambling imaginations of particular persons ; they must conform themselves , and believe but what the church judges may be safely believed . isaac . pray , sir , since when is it commendable to constrain mens judgments to believe , not what each one thinks best , but what the church thinks may be safely believed , was this commendable in the beginning of our reformation , when our blessed reformers began to teach their private judgments against the church then establish'd ? if it was , then the church of rome is to be commended , for persecuting and excommunicating our first reformers ; and this was not , nor is not commendable in the church of rome , why is it commendable in the church of england ? this is a piece of popery , whereof the church of england is guilty , and for which all our congregations are jealous of her : be it known to you , our other congregations , lutherans , calvinists , anabaptists , &c. are as truly and godly children of the reformation as the church of england ; and they will not submit to that popish tyranny , nor suffer any curb to their judgments , but will have our rule of faith to be but scripture , and each one to understand , and believe it , as he thinks best in the lord. ismael . i confess other congregations will admit no such curb , nor bridle to their judgments , but follow scripture as they understand it ; but the church of england has a reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by primitive ages , fathers and councils , and that we prefer before the private interpretations of particular persons . isaac . and just so saith the popish church to luther and our blessed reformers , and if that had been well done , we should have had neither protestancy nor any other reformation : but you confess at least , that the rule of faith in all other congregations , is but scripture , as each person understands it , and each person may consequently believe his own sence of it , and deny the sence of any other if he does not like it : then you must confess , that in all other congregations , except the church of england , any reformed child may believe any sense and doctrine which any person of sound judgment judges to be scripture , if himself likes it , though all the rest of the world may think it naught ; and whereas you cannot deny , but that all and each doctor quoted by me for those tenets , which you call blasphemies , were sound and able judgments ; you must confess that it is a necessary sequel out of their rule of faith , that in all other congregations they may piously and safely believe all those tenets , and be still true children of the reformation . ismael . i confess , if they speak coherently and stand to their principles , they may believe them safely ; but as i hate those blasphemous tenets , labbor and detest also that principle and rule of faith of other congregations , from which such tenets are unavoidable sequels . isaac . good ismael , you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed , and you are quite astray from the doctrin of the reformation . you have often granted me , that our rule of faith is scripture , not as this or that congregation , doctor , or church , but as each person of sound judgment understands it ; and now you tell me you hate and detest that rule , because that out of it , there follow strange and blasphemous tenets ? you say , the sence and interpretation of the primitive ages , church and fathers must be preferred before the interpretation of any private person , or congregation , and what think you of our whole reformation , and particularly of our articles of the church of england , which allow no other rule of faith , but scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it ? what say you of luther , calvin , beza , and the rest of our first reformers , who preferred their own private sence and interpretation of scripture , before that of the whole church ? what say you to the presbyterians , who prefer their own sense and interpretation of the bible , before that of the church of england ? what say you of all the congregations of the reformed church , each one of which , holds its sense and doctrin of scripture , different from all the rest ? i grant , there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the text , given by the primitive church and fathers ; but if a doctor , or man of sound judgment , replenisht with gods spirit , reads scripture with an humble heart , and pure intention , and judges by it , that bigamy is lawful ; that there is no mystery of three persons in one divine nature ; that christ despaired on the cross , &c. tho these doctrines be quite against the judgments of fathers , church , and councils , he may believe them , and be still a true reformed child , because he follows our rule of faith ; if he must deny these articles , because others decry them ; then he must go against his own judgment and conscience , for to conform himself to them , and his rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment understands it ; but as the primitive ages , church , and councils understand it ; and this is popery . ismael . prethee , friend isaac , let 's give over : all that your discourse drives at , by what i can perceive , is either to beat me from the reformation , by shewing me the absurdity of its rule of faith ; or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous tenets , necessary sequels out of that rule : i am a child of the reformation , and never will be otherwise . isaac . the lord , who is the searcher of hearts knows , you mis-conster my intentions : how can you say i intend to beat you from the reformation ? do not i insist and perswade you to stick fast to its rule of faith , and acknowledge no other but scripture , as you understand it ? how can you say , i oblige you to believe false and scandalous tenets ? to the contrary , i advise you not to believe them , if you judge by scripture they are false and scandalous : what my discourse drives at , that you should not censure , blame or call any doctrin blasphemous , scandalous , false , or heretical , ( popery excepted , ) for , though you judge by scripture it is not true ; another will judge it to be the true sense and doctrin of the text ; and if he does , he may with a safe conscience believe it , and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it ; if you do not like that doctrin , do not believe it ; but let the other believe as he judges by scripture he may , and let every tub stand on its own bottom . ismael . once more i beseech you give over ; i will not discourse any more with you . isaac , nay , dear ismael , i see you are troubled , and i will not leave you in that perplexity : be pleased to listen to three points i will propose unto you , and you 'll not miss to find satisfaction in either of them . ismael . let 's hear them . isaac . will you believe scripture , as it is interpreted , and in that sense which , the church , councils , and fathers propound unto you ? ismael . i will not be obliged to that , for i may judge by scripture that sence and interpretation of it , to be false and erroneous , and i will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience ; that is popery . isaac . that 's well , in so much you follow the footstepts of luther , calvin , and our first reformers , who would not believe what the church believed in their time , nor regarded what the papists alledged out of the councils and fathers against them , because they held themselves obliged to believe scripture as they understood it , and not as it was understood by others : will you then believe scripture in that sense and interpretation which your self judges to be true , though the church , councils , and all other congregations judge it to be false and erroneous , and give the like liberty to all others . ismael . that 's dangerous ; for it would follow that any man might believe without check or blame , the greatest blasphemies , imaginable , if he judges them to be the sense of the text. isaac . why then , since that the first does not please you , for fear of constraining your judgment papist-like , and the second displeases you , for the scope it gives for to believe any thing , or nothing ; your best way is to lay scripture aside , whereas christ has forgot , or neglected to appoint us some assured means for to know what sense of it he would have us believe . ismael . and what religion shall i profess if i lay scripture aside ? isaac . the same which you have by scripture ; that 's to say , whatever you judge to be the true worship of god : be sure to profess a reverence for scripture and seem to believe it 's the word of god , least you may scandalize weak brethren ; pretend always that your sentiments are grounded upon the text , but betwixt you and god believe whatever you think to be true , worship god as you judge he is to be worshipp'd , and that 's the way to live in peace : do you think but that those noble spirits which they call the wits of england , have a good religion ? in publick they speak reverently of the bible , but we know what they have , and do declare in their private discourses , that it is but a romance , or meer fiction : do you think but that there was a religion in england before it saw gregory ' emissarys , austin and his monks ? what need therefore of a bible for to have religion ? were not the swinfeldians a religious congregation , and of the reformation too , yet they cared not for scripture , but grounded their belief upon gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart ? ismael . if i were not well acquainted with you , and had not very convincing proofs , and signal testimonies of your piety , solid religiosity , and chistianity , i would judge you by this last piece of your discourse , to be an impious atheist or pagan : and i wonder that so good a christian , as i know you to be , should speak so irreverently of the bible , and so much in commendation of paganism as you do : there was indeed a religion in england before they knew what scripture was ; but that religion was paganism , which austin and his companions happily banisht from our land. isaac . happily ? do you call an exchange of paganism for popery ( introduced by austin ) a happiness ? is it nor generally believed in our reformation , and most strongly proved of late , by that incomparable wit and pen-man , doctor stillingfleet , that popery has as much of idolatry as paganism : our land therefore had in paganism as good a religion as it received by austin in popery : does not this our noble champion , and most of the scribes of the church of england teach , that popery is a saving religion , that we may be saved in the church of rome ? if popery ( notwithstanding it be idolatry as they say ) be a saving religion , how can they deny but that paganism is also a saving religion , what need had our fore-fathers therefore to abandon paganism ? why was it not left in the land ? ismael . whatever may be said of popery , it cannot be denyed , but that christianity is better than paganism : the expulsion therefore of paganism by austin , was a happiness , because by it christianity was introduced , and establisht in our kingdom . isaac . alas , ismael ! if england had been as well informed of the merit of paganism , when first christianity was preached , it had never exchanged the one for the other . ismael . what , not paganism , , which adored a multitude of gods , for christianity which adores but one ? not paganism , which adored jupiter , saturn , venus , &c. who were devils and evil spirits ; or wicked men , who caused themselves to be adored , for christianity , which adores the only true , immortal and eternal deity ? isaac . you speak with the vulgar sort , and believe , as you have been instructed by your ancestors : i confess , the apostles , and ancient doctors of christianity do teach , that the gods of the gentiles were devils or evil spirits ; i confess also , all the christian world since the first preaching of the gospel , was so perswaded , grounded upon scripture , which in several places says , the gods of the gentiles were devils , grounded upon the doctrine of the apostles , and their successors the fathers of the church , and the world being perswaded by the apostles , by the doctors , fathers , and preachers of christianity , that the gods which the pagans adored were but devils , which by soceries , and marvellous works deceived mankind , and made themselves to be adored as gods , all men were ashamed to adore but devils , forsook paganism and embraced christianity . and all was but a meer policy of popery , to cast so much dirt and calumny upon paganism , and make its gods but devils for to introduce and establish christianity ; doctor stillingfleet in his charge of idolatry against the church of rome , pag. . and . says plainly , that the pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of ; pag. . says that jupiter adored by the pagans ; was so far from being an arch-devil , in the opinion of st. paul , that he was the true god , blessed for evermore : that the pagans adored but one supream and omnipotent god which they called jupiter , and which they did believe to be neither a devil , nor a man , but a true , and the first and chiefest of the gods ; and that the rest of the gods , which they adored , they looked upon them as upon inferiour deities , and gave them no other adoration , but such as the papists give to their saints . if therefore the pagans adored the true god under the name of jupiter , and the other gods but as inferior deities , as the papists do their saints ; was it not unjustly done by the ancient fathers and teachers of christianity to have imposed upon the world , and made us believe the pagans adored but devils and evil spirits ? have not the pagans right and justice on their side , for to plead before our wise and religious parliament , that paganism may be restored , or at least tolerated , and jupiter , with the rest of the gods may be adored , as formerly they were ? first because paganism is no more idolatry than popery , as doctor stillingfleet , master burnet , and other reformed writers prove convincingly ; secondly , because that paganism having been banish'd out of our land upon the false information of our first teachers , that it was an adoration of devils , or evil spirits , and wicked debaucht men , who by counterfeited wonders , and cheats , gained the peoples adoration ; since that doctor stillingfleet , mr. burnet , and other reformed writers , will make it out , that the pagans adored no devils , but one true , omnipotent , supreme god , blessed for evermore , which they called jupiter , and the rest of the gods as inferior deities , as papists do their saints , and will prove that the pagans were charged by the first d. doctors of christianity , and by all our ancestors , with more than they were guilty of , why should not paganism be restored again to the land , and heard to speak for its self , and dr. stillingfleet and his zealous companions be licenc'd to plead for them , and for holy jupiter , so foully mis-represented by antiquity , as to be believed an arch-devil , whom dr. stillingfleet will prove to have been , a true god blessed for ever more ? ismael . the more i discourse with you , the more i am perplexed in mind i bid you adue , and do confess i carry with me from your discourse a dislike of what i have been hitherto , an unsettlement in my perswasion , and a compassion of the poor pagans , so unjustly banish'd from our nation , if what doctor stillingfleet says , be true , he is a learned , religious , and diligent searcher into scripture ; the ancient d. drs. and fathers of the church reading scripture , judged and taught , that jupiter was a devil , as well as the rest of the gods which the gentiles adored ; dr. stillingfleet and other reformed d. drs. reading scripture , judge he was no devil , but the the true god blessed for ever more ; any child of the reformation may believe either of both , and put jupiter into our litanies , as well as jesus christ , and offer sacrifice to him as formerly our ancestors did ; for whatever any man of sound judgment judges to be the doctrine of scripture , may be safely believed , and is the doctrine of the reformation : as for my part i see our wise parliament sits now upon a new settlement of government and religion , and i will not resolve upon any religion , until i see what it concludes . if dr. stillingfleet be so zealous as to put in a good word for paganism before that religious assembly , he may find abbetors , and as the parliament cherishes dr. oates for the extirpation of popery , so it may cherish dr. stillingfleet for the introduction of paganism , and the erecting of temples and altars for holy jupiter his true and evermore blessed god ; and if he be successful in this undertaking , as for exchanging presbytery for protestancy , he was promoted to the deanery of st. paul , so by changing christianity for paganism , he may expect to be his holy jupiters high priest , in london capitol , and reign with him everlastingly in the other life , in case he believes there is another . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a epist . ad noremb . & in comment . in jo. . & . matt. theol. calvin . l. . fol. . c in parva confes . germ. fol. . & in colloq . fol. . d to. . fol. . e the kingdom of isra . pag. . f acts & mon. pag. . lib. . c. . g catal. estium . pag. . & . a l. . instit . c. . b to. . e. lit jen. resolut . d in colloq . mensal . fol. . e to. . wittem . fol. , . f in defens . art. reliq . protest . pag. . g in his true differ . par . . pag. . h bouclier de la foy. * matt. . ** tim. . ‖ jo. . a in lib. ad corin. c . b in explan . art. . c to. . de minist . eccles . instit . fol. . & lib. de cap. babyl . c. de ordin . & lib. de abroganda missa . d in harm . in matth. c. . vers . . & in admonad . po●●… . in tract . theolog. pag. . e comment . super joan. c. . f in act. seiueti pag. . g l. con . cenebrat . h in postil . major . in ennarat . evang . domin . trinit . i lib. . dial. . k harm . in evang. mat. c. . vers . . and c. . vers . . & lib. . instit . c. . sect . . & . l in luk. par . . hom . . and in joan. hom . . m in march. c. . n recogn . pag. . o lib. . inst . c. . fact . . and seq . p to. wettemp . in sp . . q in ps . . r in confes . majori de coena dni . ſ to. . in respon . ad confes . luth. fol. . t in histor . sacram. par . . fol. . a dom. . adventus , & liber . de proph. christi . b in postil . super evangel . dom. . advent . & dom. . post trinit . c motives to good works in the epist. dedic . d lib. . inst. c. . sect. . e lib. . c. . sect. . f in locis commun . classe . . . g to. . wittem . de capr . babyl . fol. . h de eccl. cont . bellarm conf . . quaest . . i epist . . . & . k to. . wittem . serm . de matrim . & in . ad corin. l consil . theol. par . pag. . & . m in epist . pau ad phil. & in . ad tim. . n lib . dial. . o lib de repud . & divort. pag. . p canon . generales genuen . . q chap. . art . r to. . wittem . serm . de matrim . ſ to. . wittemb . serm . de matrim . t in scriptis anglic. de reg. chr. l. . c. . & in matth. c. . u in consil . theol. par . . pag. . s . & . x dial. . & . in epist . s. paul. ad tim. . y l. . inst . c. . sect . . discip . eccl. c. . z serm. de murim . a lib. . inst . c. . sect . . & . b act. . c can. . d lib. . eccles . polit. pag. . e in tim. c. . f in defens . hookeri art . . a in praefat. dialog . b serm. de . artic. in summa summarum . c in harm . super luc. c. . d epitom . cent. . par . . e tom. . cont . catabapt . fol. , f victoria verit . arg : ▪ g in cap. . ad gal. h de eccles . cont . bellarm. cont . . c. . i to. . wettem . an . . in epist. ad gal. c. . k in apol. cof . c. de concil . l in cap. . ad gal. & serm . aug. pag. . m in epist . ad gal. c. . & . & tom. . wittemb . an . . fol. . n lib. . de eccl. polit. sect . . o pag. . & . p acts and mon. pag. . q lib. . inst . c. . sect . . r in comment in cap. . ad gal. ſ to. . proposit . . t lib. . instit c. . . u harm . evang. in luc. c. , verse . x in synop. papismi pag. . y lib. de servo . arbit . cont . erasm . z lib. . instit . c. . sect . . & . &c. . sect . . & cap. . . a lib. . inst . c. . sect . . & lib. . c. . sect . . & lib. . c. . sect . lo. . de deprovid . c. . in synops . pag. . in manifest . stratag . papist . l . inst . c. . sect. . a in defens . &c. pag. . . & . b in respons . tredecem . propos . c in epist. ad card. belay episc . pariens . d in tract . euchar. ad . p. sarmunm . e in annot. super novum testam . cap. . matth. & sape alibi . f to. . edit . jonah . l. de cap. babyl . h lib. de caena domini . i lib ▪ de cap. babyl . c. de euchar. g almonit . . ad . westph . defens . oxthod . fit . k epist. ad bahemos in declarat . euch. & in serm . de euch. l in concil . theol. ad march. elect. de usu utriusque speciei pag. . a in disput . theol. pag. . b in concilliat . loc . scrip. loco . . c in locis commun . to. . de potest eccl. d in apol. conses . aug. art . . & lib. pag. . e in p. . epist . jac. v. . f lib. . inst . c. . sect . . g in modest . examin . h in eccl. polit. l. . sect . . i in locis commun . tit . de numero . sacram. k in perpet . regem . pag. . l in eccl. polit. lib. . sect . . m lib. . inst . c. . n epit. colloq . montisbel . o in centaur . exercit. theol. pag. . p exampar . . q in respond . ad acta colloq . montisbel . par . . in prefas . r in locis commun . c. . & . ſ inscrip . angl. pag. . t to . in eupian . a●t . . & ar● . . u in apolog. confess aug. x to . wittem . in resol . de indul. concl . . epist . ad spalat . z acts & mon. pag. . & . a to. germ. fol. . b de formula missa & to. . germ. c in histor . s● . part . . fol. . d in replis ad hardingum . a fannaticks addresse humbly presented to the king and his peers, and also to his people in their representative, the commons house of parliament ... discovering to them, the innocency of his actings in the midst of the late revolutions of governments in this nation ... / by henry adis ... adis, henry. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a fannaticks addresse humbly presented to the king and his peers, and also to his people in their representative, the commons house of parliament ... discovering to them, the innocency of his actings in the midst of the late revolutions of governments in this nation ... / by henry adis ... adis, henry. p. printed for the author ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- england. religion and politics -- england. freedom of religion -- england -- history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a fannaticks addresse humbly presented to the king and his peers , and also to his people in their representative , the commons house of parliament , assembled and sitting at westminster : discovering to them , the innocency of his actings in the midst of the late revolutions of governments in this nation ; with the resolves of them that walk with him , and the qualifications of those they intend to have communion withal . by henry adis , a baptized believer , undergoing the name of a free-willer ; and also most ignomineously by the tongue of infamy , called a fannatick , or a mad man. phil. . . let your moderation be known to all men , the lord is at hand . london , printed for the author , an upholdster , living in princes-street , near covent-garden , . a fannaticks addresse humbly presented to the king and his peers , and also to his people in their representative , the commons house of parliament , assembled and sitting at westminster , &c. for as much , as several that lately took upon them the places of trust , government and authority in these nations , under a pretence of making such a reformation in church and state , as was agreeable both to the law of god , and the best reformed churches ; and yet their ends in all this , the event did clearly evidence , was nothing either more or less , but to advance and set up self , and self-interests ; the which that they might the better , and with the more self-security effect , they proclaimed liberty of conscience , that so they might gain a party to stand for and by them , if necessity required ; in which time of freedome , a small party . ( the searcher of all hear●s right well knoweth ) enjoyed our liberties under them , with an utter detestation both to their acts of violence , oppression , and self-servings , with our continual bearing our testimony against them , in those actions , as it fell in our way , both in discourses and teachings ; but more publickly in my books , printed and published in the year , . called , the symptomes of ruin , or , the sword and famine , the attendants of oppr●ssion ; as also in that book , intituled , a cup for the city and her adherents ; and in that poem , called , a spie for justice , sent out of the tower chamber of the fleet ; in all which it will evidently appear , that for mine own part i could not own , nor in the least allow of their violence nor oppression : and the better to clear to the whole nation , our innocency and the cleanness of our hands , as to all manner of acts of violence , and oppression , i caused . declarations to be printed and published , the th . day of the th . month , vulgarly called january , in the year . which is also joyned to the latter end of my fannaticks mite , cast into the kings treasurie ; in which i declared my judgement , and the judgement of that small company that were in society with me , both concerning fighting , swearing , and government , and our obedience to magistracy , and magistrates , and our present disrelish to them then in being , as in the , and . lines of the said declaration , ( if recourse thereunto had ) is evident : and yet notwithstanding , my self with two more of the said declarers , in this late imprisonment , about the late insurrection , and also upon refusing to ingage to the king by an oath , we have been cruelly imprisoned , in the gate-house dungeon , and two of us also most abusively ( with others ) were printed as traytors , although the thought of those , and such like acts of violence , and bloodshed , are even an abhorring to our souls . and seeing we have the word of the king passed to us , for our protection under him , in our liberties in our meetings , to discharge our duty to our god , and each to other , in that way that god hath manifested himself unto us in his revealed will , the holy scriptures of truth , so long as we on our parts without acts of violence , hostility , plottings , contrivings , or underminings , shall behave our selves peaceably and quietly under him . and seeing we on our parts , have never in the least forfeited our priviledges , by any thing that we have either acted , or in the least intended , and yet our peaceable and quiet meetings , have been beset with rude and debauched souldiers , rending and swearing , attended with the rude rabble ; and that since our late inlargement by the kings coronation favour ; and all this for speaking in the name of jesus of nazareth , a man approved of god , acts . . he that is pretendedly owned of you all , and contended for by you all ; and yet such is the inveteracy of the spirits of some , that they are eagerly fighting against those that in the singleness of their souls serve this jesus in the footsteps of the flock of god gone before ; of whom , because the king , the nobility , and the generality of the commonnalty of this land of our nativity , are misinformed of some of us , and that we with some , are of the judgement , that killing is no murther ; intend to lay a punishment upon us ; for the guilt and opinions of some , whom we as little own , as they that are ready to inflict the punishment ; i have therefore thought good once more to set pen to paper , and in plainness of speech , to give the king and his people , and you their representative , a fresh discovery of the intents of our hearts , and the bent of our spirits , in the singleness of our souls , in the sight and presence of him , who is the searcher of all hearts , that sin ▪ revenging god who is of a more purer eye , then to approve off , or to behold iniquity with approbation thereunto . i shall therefore declare our judgements as to the present governour , and government , and our opinion touching government simply so considered ; and then i hope daniel like , neither the king , his people , nor you their representative , shall find any just cause against us , save in the matters of our god ; in which ( the lord assisting us ) we shall resolve in gods way to go on in , and if therein we perish , we perish . and therefore first of all , i shall let you know , that we do own government , and that we both do and shall resolve to be obedient to governours , because they be ordained of god , according to rom. . , . and therefore on our parts we dare not resist them , but shall according to vers . . render unto them tribute , custom , fear and honour : and for as much as we have seen the hand of him who changeth the times and seasons , who removeth kings and setteth up kings , dan. . , . dan. , , . sam. . , . sam. . . to be great in this change in setting up charles the second ; we do therefore own him to be the lawful king of these three nations of england , scotland and ireland ; and to whom we shall willingly submit in all civil things , that we do find to be agreeable to the mind of god , revealed in that directory , his holy scriptures of truth ; and if at anytime he shall require from us any thing that we cannot in conscience actually obey him in , we shall not in the least resist him violently , nor by force of arms oppose him , but shall patiently suffer under him the penalties for our not obeying him ; and as we own him , so we shall receive , own and obey actively or passively , all others his civil magistrates , set up and sent by him , for the punishment of evil doers , and the praise of them that do well , according to pet. . , . and this we shall do in the singleness of our souls , without evasions , equivocations , or mental reservations . secondly , as we do own magistracy to be of god ; so we cannot look upon our selves to be concerned in the affairs of this , or any other nation , so as to have to do with government , as to our own particulars , although we were indowed with such qualications and estates , as might render us capable thereof ; because we look upon our selves to be a people chosen out of the world , and such as shall be hated of the world , joh. . . and for the sake and name of christ shall be haled before kings , rulers , governonrs , magistrates , and councils of this world , as he himself hath foretold us , mat. . , . mark . . for all that will live godly in christ jesus shall suffer persecution , tim. . . and therefore we look upon it to be our duties , to behave our selves as pilgrimes and strangers on earth , as the flock of god gone before us did , and were , heb. . . pet. . . and to sit loose to the things of this world , and to use the world as if we used it not , and as not abusing it , cor. . , . but that our moderation therein and in all things , may be known to all men ; because the lord is at hand , phil. . . and not martha-like to be too much cumbred with the things of this world , but with mary , to look after that one thing necessary , and to choose that good part which shall not be taken from us , luke . , . and as we are risen with christ , so to seek those things which are above , where christ sitteth at the right ha●d of the father , col. . . and so to lay up for our selves treasures in heaven , where neither rust nor moth do corrupt , and where thieves cannot break thorow , nor steal , mat. . . thirdly , we shall and do own the parliament of england , convened and gathered together by the kings writs , to be the lawful and onely lawful assembly of the nation , for the confirming , establishing , making and repealing of laws and statutes , for the better well-being of the nation in civil things ; but we cannot find from the word of god , any warrant for the greatest of men or councils , either civil or ecclesiastical , to alter or abrogate any of the laws of god made by that great council of heaven ; or to prescribe any other kind or manner of worship , then what the great jehovah in his magna charta , the holy scriptures of truth , hath established , rratified and confirmed , by miracles , signs , and wonders , and divers gifts of the holy ghost , according to his own will , heb. . . and in which the flock of god gone before us acted , who continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread and prayer , acts . . to which directory onely , we both do must and shall conform to and none other . and if by the hands of the rude multitude , by your continued tolleration , or otherwise by your appointments , we shall therein or therefore perish , we perish . yet i cannot but by the way let you know , that for some time past i have observed and taken special notice , that when parliaments have gone about that work , of setling and ordering of matters concerning the worship and service of god , their designes have suddenly been blasted , their councils confounded , and their enemies forreign or domestick , increased ; by which means they have been forced to leave that work , or else by the hands of those that called them , or by the armies force they have been violently dispersed . and now i shall really inform you of our resolutions herein , and shall declare , that if this great assembly shall go on to intermedle with the regulating of our consciences , as to the worship and service of our god , or give it into the hands of the church-men of england so to do , we shall not by force of armes , nor the least violence oppose them , nor comply with any that shall oppose them ; neither shall we resolve to conform to them in the least , in what is inconsistent with the laws of our god , left us in scripture record : but under our penalties , for our refusals , we shall with israel of old , groan under such egyptian bondage ; and we question not , but that the captain of our salvation , in his own due time , by a mighty hand , and a stretched out arm , will release and relieve us , to the comfort of his poor oppressed suffering ones , and to the confusion of his , and his peoples enemies ; and with israel of old , we shall resolve to stand still and behold the salvation of our god , which he will work for us , let our sufferings be under ( you , or them ) what they will , for our not actually obeying mans traditions . fourthly , we look upon it to be our bounden duty notwithstanding , though we suffer for it by the hands of men , yet to follow the direction of king jesus the captain of our salvation , who himself was made perfect through sufferings , heb. . . who , that his own flock might the better avoid that great danger of forswearing , either by ignorance , forgetfulness , mistakings , or by reason of fear , favour or affection , he perswadeth them not to swear at all , mat. . . who also telleth us , mat. . . t●● except our righteousness , shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees , we shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven ; and therefore , in vers. . he requireth , that our yea should be yea , and our nay nay ; and he addeth this as a reason , for saith he , whatsoever is more then this cometh of evil , or of that evil one : as much as if he should have said , when you either assert or deny a thing , you shall do it with such singleness of heart , and such sincerity of soul , being in me , or in my way order or worship , as that you shall not cause the name of god , nor his gospel to be blasphemed or evil spoken off , by reason of your deceitful denyals or affirmings , but that you speak the truth in me , who a● made of my father unto you , both wisdom , righteousness , sanctification , and redemption ; and so am become to you the lord your righteousness , iere. . . who as i judge , doth not tye us distinctly to the circumstance of the termes , yea and nay , but to the substance of the verity or truth of the thing asserted , although the termes may differ , as do his own , who saith , verily verily , i say unto you , john . . who also useth the same expression above twenty times in that gospel by saint john , the which verily , verily , had it been an evil , or if it had come of that evil one , and he himself speaking it had been his evil , to have tied us from it , as an evil , and yet acted it himself ; and so he would have layed himself under a guilt , the which to say , i really believe is no less then blasphemy : so that he tieth us , as i judge , not to the circumstance of the words , but to the substance of the matter , and that without swearing , in saying , swear not at all : so that though we cannot swear to king charles , yet we can and shall be freely willing to promise to king charles , what we can safely and upon a scripture account promise . and as we are not our selves free to plot , contrive , nor by force of armes to undermine him , nor his government ; so to prevent the shedding of blood , and the breach of the peace of the three nations , we shall and will be ready and willing to discover all plots , conspiracies , or any thing that by force of arms we shall know of against him , to some justices of the peace , or other his ministers , within . hours after the knowledge of such plot or force intended ; and shall resolve ( the lord assisting us ) to be as true and faithful in our yeas and nays , whether promisary or testimonial , to king charles and his subjects , of what rank or quality soever they be , as our brethren of holland are to their states , and to their fellow citizens and townsmen ; and we hope our performances therein will be found far more real , then the multitudes either are or have been , who have been ready to swear for his to day , and against it to morrow , whose own interests generally cause their mouthes to open , in such swearings and forswearings , more then conscience ; the which we dare not do , lest we be found transgressing the law of our saviour , and his faithful servant , who say , swear not , and swear not at all , mat. . . jam. . . fifthly , we look upon it to be our duties , to be a peaceable , a quiet , a harmless , and an innocent people , and to keep our selves from all manner of acts of war , uiolence , and hostility ; because to kill , inslave , bring under , ruine , or destroy our friends , were most inhumane ; and to do so to our enemies , we dare not , because our law-giver by his faithful servant , rom. . . &c. requireth us to recompence to no man evil for evil ; but that we provide things honest in the fight of all men ; and that if possible , as much as in us lyeth , we should live peaceably with all men ; who requireth us not to avenge our selves but rather to give place unto wrath ; because it is written , vengeance is mine , and i will repay it , saith the lord : therefore saith he , if thine enemy hunger , feed him , if he thirst , give him drink ; for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head ; and be not overcome with evil , but overcome evil with good : yea , and so saith our saviour himself , mat. . . but i say unto you , love your enemies , blesse them that curse you , do good to them that hate you , and pray for them that despitefully use you ; that you may be ( or that you may evidence your selves to be ) the children of your father , which is in heaven ; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil , and on the good , and his rain to fall on the just , and on the unjust : for if you love them which love you , what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans the same ? and if ye salute your brethren onely , what do ye more then others ? do not even the publicans the same ? be ye therefore perfect , even as your father which is in heaven is perfect . and we look upon it to be our duties to follow our lord and master , who left himself a pattern for us to follow , who saith , mat. . . learn of me , for i am lowly and meek , and ye shall find rest for your souls ; who , saith the apostle , pet. . . . when he was reviled , reviled not again , when he suffered , he threatned not ; but committed himself to him who judgeth righteously . much more might be said to their particular , the which for brevity sake i shall omit ; and shall thus affirm , that for this cause , and such requirements as these are , we dare not have to do with weapons of war , nor that the acts of violence in any case be found in our hands , no not for the best things , and to advance or promote either the gospel or kingdom of christ by any such way or means , we dare not in the least have so much as a thought , but look upon it to be our duties patiently to wait and earnestly , according to that other requirement of christ , to pray , that his kingdom may come , that so his will may be done on earth as it is in heaven , mat. . . and as we have declared in the said declaration , in . that we could not hold society with , nor own those that were in the same faith and order with us , and from whom we then stood at a distance , that acted with the carnal weapon , weapons of war , and acts of hostility then ; so still , we look upon it to be our bounden duty so to do , because it is so frequently forbidden in scripture , and also because it bringeth such an odium upon the truth , and also upon the peaceable pe●ple of god that are in gospel order , and walk close to the appointments of christ in all his ordinances , and in church-fellowship , as it is at this day : and therefore we cannot have to do with any such as do so act , or that look upon it to be their liberties , or priviledges so to act ; and shall have as little to do with them now as then , or with any one that hath so acted , unless they shall freely relinquish the same , and shall acknowledge their failing and evil in their so acting , whether it be either against , or for king charles the first , or king charles the second ; it being so cleerly made out to us , and also to several of them that formerly so acted from the holy scriptures , to be contrary to the qualifications of a gospel disciple , to have to do with the weapons of war , or the sword of slaughter , whose weapon onely ought to be the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god , to cut down , kill and slay , wound and bring under every imagination , and every high thought , that exalteth it self against the knowledge of jesus christ ; and to bring every soul to the obedience of christ , in all his lawes , statutes , ordinances , and appointments : in order whereunto , sixthly , we look upon it to be agreeble to the pure will and mind of god , th●t there be a free toleration for men and women to worship god , without either constraint or restraint ; and that no acts of violence be used against them therein , to force the conscience of any , no not of the meanest of the sons and daughters of men , of what perswasion or judgement soever they be of ; because jesus christ out of that exceeding love of the father , was sent to lay down his life for the sins of the world , john . . and to be a redemption for that first transgression , heb. . . under the guilt of which all the whole bulk of mankinde that ever were , are , or ever shall be , by imputation , do lie under ; and from the punishment of which by jesus christ they shall all be released , and restored , rom. . . and not onely so , but they are also by jesus christ , that second adam , brought into a capacity to have that salvation that is in christ jesus , with eternal glory , tim. . . whose work was to come to seek and to save that which was lost , as he himself saith , luke , . and therefore he gave out his universal commission , the benefit whereof extendeth to all ; and therefore to be preached to all , mat. . . mark . . and we having this universal gospel to preach , to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself by jesus christ , not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed unto us the ministry of reconciliation ; now then we are ambassadours for christ , as though god did beseech you by us ; we pray you ( yea ) ( you great tall cedars of england ) [ we pray ] you in christ stead be ye reconciled unto god , cor. . , . and have a care i beseech you in the fear of the great jehovah , that ye neither slight our message , as you tender the good of your own souls to eternity ; neither be ye , i pray you , as those pharisees , and hypocrites , against whom a wo was pronounced by our master king jesus , mat. . . who shut up the kingdom of heaven against men , who neither desired to go in themselves , nor suffered those that were entring to go in : o i beseech you have a care of this , for men are backward enough of themselves , and should you but seem to hinder them , haply their disobedience may be put upon your score ; and he that is found forwards now to hinder , will be found most guilty at that day , when christ shall dispence to every man according as his work shall be , cor. . . o i beseech you once again , yea and again i intreat you , have a care every one of you , as you tender your own good to eternity , that you hinder none , though never so rich , nor never so poor ; for god is no respecter of persons , but in every nation , he that feareth him and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him , acts . . hinder none , be they never so young , nor never so old ; for our housholder the master of our family , jesus christ who is a son over his own house , comes to some early in the morning , mat. . , &c. even whilst they are tender & young , even so soon as they come to reason and understanding , god by the incomings of his holy spirits , comes to hire them into his vineyard ; to some he comes at the third hour , in their youth , to others at the sixth hour in their manhood , to others at the ninth hour in their declining age ; and to some again at the th . hour , even in their old age : o then i say again , i beseech you have a care , that none be hindred of their entrance into the vineyard of christ , of no age or sex whatsoever ; for he may be loytring in the market place of the world this day , that may be hired into the vineyard of jesus christ to morrow ; for christ of a persecuting saul , may suddenly make a preaching paul , one voice from heaven can do it ; through mercy i know it by good experience , and therefore i am the boulder to assert it ; and that provoketh me the more earnestly , to beg again and again , that no violence be used , because the housholder , mat. . . is said to hire , not to frighten , nor beat , force , or constrain , but to hire labourers , to go into his vineyard , telling them what they shall have for their pains , if they will labour when they are there ; and as i told the king in my fannaticks mite , in page the ninth of the last impression , that a gospel minister was not as a general in an army , to frighten , beat , or fight men into faith ; but as an embassadour , to perswade and invite , and gently treat with , and to intreat into the way of god ; the one being gospel or evangelical , but the way of force being diabolical and of the devil , and proceedeth from the fruits of the flesh ; a part whereof i told the mayor of london , in christian love to his soul , the danger thereof , in my alarm given to him in his quarters , in page . in which some of them are clearly laid down , and how they will exclude a soul from heavens glory . again , it is required , that all things be tryed , and that which is good be held fast ; but how shall there be a trying of all things , if there be a constraint onely to one ? for how can there be a choice , where the tryi●g any but one is restrained ? the which restraint confounds the choice . again , if those of the episcopal government , do look upon toleration or libertie of conscience , simply so considered , to be a sin , then i query if it be not an evil to tolerate any ? and whether that evil is not then more aggravated , if they shall tolerate that opinion or religion that they would have us swear against , because they say it is idolatrous and sinful ? and whether there is not a farther aggravation , if the worser be allowed , and the better be suppressed ? and whether they will not evidence themselves to be such , as judge not as god judgeth , if they shall tolerate the great , the rich and mighty , and suppresse the mean , the poor and the low ? when god respecteth not persons , but in every nation , he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him . and therefore i would earnestly beg every one , ( the bent of whose spirit carryeth him that way ) according to the requirement of the apostle , to try their spirits whether they are of god or not , joh. . . and to examine their wisdom in this case of persecution , whether it be that wisdom that is from above , which is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , and easie to be intreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality , without hypocrisie , jam , . . whether it be without partiality ? whether they would be willing to be served so themselves ? whether if they have at any time undergone persecution for conscience sake , and have not cryed out against it as abominable , as the roman catholicks and episcopals have done , in that grand usurper oliver cromwels dayes , and the general baptists , confident i am , should have done , had he longer continued ; even as they with others now do , and as that people of the presbyterian perswasion suddenly ( unless my judgement greatly fail me ) will do , if this horrid rome-bred persecu●ing spirit , still be predominant in england ; which is contrary to the true spirit of god , whose fruit is love , joy , peace , long suffering , gentleness , goodness , meekhess , and temperance ; against which there is no law : no law of god , although there be now some lawes of man intended to be made against them : o that this were taking upon your spirits , that now sit at the stern ! was not your loyalty to king charles the first , and king charles the second , a great cause of your hardships , most of you ? how fared it with you , you that were continually in england ? was not those that bo●e sway in england your continual tormentors , your fear and dayly dread ? and those that were away , did not they feel the smart of it ? did you not all both abroad and at home , cry out of oppression , cruelty and tyranny ? did you cry out of them , and think you that others , will not cry out of you , if you be found such actors to others ? was it evil in them to use you so , for your loyalty to king charles ? and can you be so cruel to those that are loyal to king jesus , and never acted any thing against king charles the first , nor king charles the second , or against the meanest of you , nor ever took part with them that did ? did the hand of god follow them for their cruel and unjust actings to you and the king , as most of you do say it did ? and can you be the same to others for their loyalty to him who hath righted you of them , and brought you : your own again ; and that against some of them too , that never got the worth of one ●ar●●ing by all their pillagings , plunderings , or sales , neither of goods nor lands ? can you be contented to enjoy your own ? and are you not willing that those that never harmed you , should enjoy theirs ? are you glad that you are brought into the land of your nativity again ? and would you now most cruelly justle others out ? are you now setting up that worship , that you judge to be agreeable to the mind of god ? and will you now force others to forsake what they are perswaded to ? oh! t●at you would but consider , what your own oppressions were , and who you are now about to oppress ; let not your fury , nor revenge fall heavy upon the innocent ; why should iniquity and injustice be found in your hands ? oh! consider with your selves apart , and discourse it each with other seriously ▪ what such a judgment , as i in the singleness of my soul have laid before you , can , or ever did do you harm ; who never did any acts of violence for , nor against you or the king ; nor ever shall resolve to do ; who have not gone with a defensive weapon so much as to defend my self with , above this fifteen years ; and am of the same judgment with our brethren of holland , whose innocent and harmless behaviour , confident i am , many of you in that time of your absence from this land of your nativity , are well acquainted with ; the which i am confident the strictest of you have no just exception against , either for endeavouring to undermine government , or to pull down governours , or by fraud or force , to have to do with any mans possession , goods , or estate ; who am willing to do by another , as i would have another do by me , and am as willing another should live as my self ; whose indeavour in all my teachings , have been to perswade persons to forsake and avoid all acts of violence and oppression , and to cleave to god with purpose of heart , and to perswade those that have owned god in his own way , to continue stedfast in the same , and to prove faithful to him , whose lawes teach the best loyalty to our earthly princes , and purest love to all , yea to our very enemies ; who with single-heartedness to all , and without either fawning or flattery , have and shall still resolve to tell every one , with whom i have to do , the worst of their condition , and shew them the danger they are in , by reason of their misactings ; with an earnest desire that in order to their eternal well-being , they would refuse the evil and choose the good. and so i have at this time done with you , the great council of the nation , and if for my plainness of speech either as to the matter or manner of it , you shall become mine enemy , because i deal so plainly with you , i shall let you know , that notwithstanding , i shall in the singleness of my soul pray for you , and for your convertion , not in the least indeavouring , or plotting your confusion . and now i shall earnestly desire both the king , his people , and you their representative , to judge with equity our innocent cause , that so when you shall your selves be summoned at that great session , before that great tribunal and righteous judge , who shall give to every man according as his work shall be , that then you be found innocent and without blame , as to your actings against the peaceable ones of christs flock , whose sentence , of either , come , ye blessed , inherit the kingdom ; or , go ye cursed into everlasting fire , will be of an eternal extent , and that upon the account of mens actings to his people , either for doing them good , or for refusing to do them that good they might have done them ; who looketh upon what is either neglected or done to them , to be done unto himself : and hence it is , that he uttered that from heaven , saying , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? i am jesus whom thou persecutest , acts . , . and after the same manner will be his sentence at that great day of account , even , go ye cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the devil and his angels ; for when i was hungry ye fed me not , and naked , ye clothed me not , sick and in prison , and ye visited me not ; for inasmuch as ye did it not to one of these little ones , ye did it not unto me . o then i beseech thee , whoever thou be , that art of a persecuting spirit ; i say again i would beg thee seriously to consider , o persecuting spirit , that if the lord christ , will thus severely punish the neglecting the doing good to his people , when hungry , naked , sick , and imprisoned ; what then will be the portion of those that cause them to come into such difficulties and straits , as imprisonments , hungrings , nakedness , and sickness ; and cause them to be thrown as it were on heapes , one upon another , as some of the baptists lately have been in one room some . foot broad , and . foot long in new gate ? and much after the same way in several other gaols and prisons in the nation ; enough to breed infections and diseases , had not the god whom we serve appeared mightily in our behalfes . and seeing the eternal sentence , will be so severe against such violent actors , in love to their souls i cannot choose but give them a timely caution , and in their behalfes with that servant of the lord , deut. . . cry out and say , o that they were wise , that they would understand this , that they would consider their latter end. and now let not the king , his peers , nor his people , be angry , and i will speak but this once more in the behalf of my self , and all that are of the separation , of what judgement soever , that so if possible i may be instrumental , that the peace of the nation be preserved , and kept ; and this i shall humbly beg , that if you are not willing that we should serve our god , in that way which we have received , but that we shall be taken into custody for our so doing ; that then you would commissionate some peace officers for that work to have to do with us ; and that we be not left to the mercy of the rude multitude , nor the violent laws of the mercenary souldiers , whose actings towards the peaceable , have been very rude and inhumane , in london and westminster ; where at one meeting , they wounded one man so dangerously on his — arm , that it is greatly feared , he will lose the use of one of his hands . at another meeting-place ▪ they rudely came and drank up the wine that was provided by that congregation , to celebrate that holy ordinance of communicating at the table of the lord. at another meeting-place , the congregation being generally dispersed before they came , in revenge whereof the souldiery set on the rude multitude , to break in pieces the table that they used to make use of to celebrate the lords supper upon . at another meeting-place , they rudely behaved themselves , violen●●y casting some of them head-long down the stairs , but the stairs being winding , and some people upon them , the force of the falls ( through mercy ) being thereby broken , there was not much harm done as to the people , the greatest harm that was done , was by one of the souldiers to himself ; for he set that up then upon his own score , the which ( unrepented off ) will exclude him heavens glory , if the saying of our apostle be true , in cor. . . who would not have men to be deceived , for saith he , neither fornicators , nor idolaters , nor adulterers , nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with man-kinde , nor thieves , nor covetous , &c. shall inherit the kingdom of god : and such was one of them , as i am informed , by one who saith , that at the very interim of time charged him with it , in the face of the congregation ; and if such acts of deceit should be winked at and allowed , we should be in as bad a condition , as when our houses were searched , upon the late insurrection , when , who would , came and forced into houses , and took and bore away what they pleased , to the great hinderance of some , as can be clearly evidenced : and when our pockets were searched in the main guard , and our knives and other things taken from us , and never restored to us again : and if such acts of violence be not restrained , our peaceable and well governed land , in a short time may ( it is to be feared ) become acheldama . and therefore in the behalf of my self , and all others , whose light it is to walk in a separated way , if by your appointments , we shall be taken into custody for our peaceable meeting together , in the service of our god ; i shall humbly beg , that we may have the priviledges of free-born englishmen , and that which the worst of offenders enjoy ; who though the lawes both of god and man , will condemn to the shamefullest death , yet they are apprehended by peace-officers , and peaceably preserved from the hands of violence and cruelty , till they be legally charged , adjudged and condemned ; the which security , if this great assembly shall vouchsafe us , and that the nation be forbidden to make any tumultuous insurrections , contrary to the peace of the nation , and that they forbear to commit any acts of violence upon us , either in our peaceable assemblings together , or apart at our habitations , or elsewhere , till further order from the assembly ; the which if this national assembly shall vouchsafe us the privilede of , we shall in all humility and thankfulness acknowledge it : but if not , yet it shall be our great care in our meetings , to perform our duties in obedience to our god , and to follow that christian advice of his servant , in tim. . . to make prayers , supplications , intercessions , and giving of thanks for all men , for kings , and all that are in authority ; that under them we may lead a peaceable and quiet life in all godliness and honesty ; because it is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour : and this shall be the resolution of him , whose onely end and aim is the glory of god , the good of the king , the well-being of his people , and the eternal benefit of all your souls ; who in the singleness of heart , in the sight of the all-seeing god , shall subscribe himself , a friend to your souls , in order to your eternal well-being , in the behalf of himself , and those he hath communion withal . henry adis. the end . to the parliament of the common-wealth of england who are in place of authority to do justice, and in present power to ease the oppressed nation from its bonds : councel and advice unto you / from a friend that seeks after truth and righteousness from you ... burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the parliament of the common-wealth of england who are in place of authority to do justice, and in present power to ease the oppressed nation from its bonds : councel and advice unto you / from a friend that seeks after truth and righteousness from you ... burrough, edward, - . p. s.n., [london? : ?] caption title. signed and dated at end: lon. of mon., . edward burrough. reproduction of original in the huntington library. eng society of friends -- apologetic works. church and state -- england. freedom of religion -- england. a r (wing b ). civilwar no to the parliament of the common-wealth of england, who are in place of authority to do justice, and in present power to ease the oppressed n burrough, edward c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the parliament of the common-wealth of england , who are in place of authority to do justice , and in present power to ease the oppressed nation from its bonds . councel and advice unto you , from a friend that seeks after truth and righteousness from you , and alwayes faithfully desires the nations good , and that the government thereof may be established upon a just and equal and right foundation , that the lord god may possess his right , and all men their right in our land , and that men of truth and sound judgement , may be set to judge the people in outward things , and the exercise of good conscience in faith and worship left unto god , that blessings and mercies , true freedom , peace and vnity , may run down as a stream in the land of our nativity , and that all the contrary may be cast out , and removed far away from us , and for this cause , these things following do i propound unto you , that you may read and consider , to the end that righteousness alone may be established in the nation , both in the foundation and practice of government . for as much as this nation , the land of our native inheritance ( as we are members of it ) hath long been held under great bondage and captivity , and the free-born people have born the heavy yokes of tyranny and oppression , both in respect of the foundation of government , and also in respect of practice thereof ; for not onely the practice , but also the very foundation of government , and the choosing of governours also hath been out of course , and not rightly laid , nor established in righteousness , by reason of that darkness that hath been over all people , in the dayes of the reign of antichrist , whose kingdome and government hath been in dominion in all nations , ever since the falling away from the faith , once delivered to the apostles , and then came the earth to be subjected under the tyranny and oppression of that fourth beast , dan. . and while thus it hath been in our nation that our kings have attained to the throne of government hereditarily , and by succession of birth , and our parliaments and rulers have attained to the place of judgement over us , by such a way of traditional choise , as hath been the custom in our forefathers dayes ( that knew no better , being in the dayes of apostacy & great ignorance themselves ) and thus it hath continued for many ages , whereby the inhabitants have been alwayes suffering under , and lyable to great oppressions & vexations , being subjected under such a government , falling as aforesaid , from parents to children , after the manner of the heathen nations , and being subjected to such laws , made and executed by men , not truly called and ordained of god thereunto , insomuch that nothing hath been perceived nor intended by men of the hand of the lord , and of his good spirit in the calling of our kings , and choosing of our rulers ; but these things have com'd to pass and been after the traditions of men , and not after the order and councel of the lord god ; and our nation hath been under the bonds of slavery in this respect , even because men have governed that ought not : and while the great and rich men hath been set to rule over the poor , and while men for earthly honour , and for riches sake in birth and breeding , have claimed to be princes over us successively , and to be chosen our rulers according to custom , without respect to their vertue and goodness , and without true calling from the lord , or any certain testimony from him , and thus it hath continued for many ages ; because of which the free born people hath deeply suffered the cruel oppressions of proud and ambitious and self-seeking men , who hath long ruled for themselves , and not for the lord , and have com'd into the place of authority over us , otherwise then by appointment and right calling from the lord , as i have said ; and thus the government of our nation hath been out of course , and not as the lord requireth it , even until this day , while great darkness hath remained upon the hearts of the people , which hath so blinded them , that they have not known their own bondage , nor yet how to be redeemed into perfect liberty , while they have subjected themselves ( through ignorance ) to be ruled by such men as had no right from god to that place of rule and government . but now in as much as the lord god our deliverer hath begun to appear for the freedom of the nations , and hath shewed us the captivity and bondage which our forefathers have lived under , and we our selves been subject and lyable too , by reason of the government standing in a single person successively , and we being forced to live under the authority of such men as had no right from god thereunto , as i have said ; and now our eyes are opened to behold better things , and we are in good expectations , that the lord will suddenly so appear , as to free us from future oppressions in this respect , for we look for a new earth , as well as for a new heaven , according to the lords promise to us , which is to be fulfilled in these latter dayes ; and that we shall have judges as at the first , and councellors as at the beginning , and that all our bonds of oppression shall be broken , that have lain upon us by unjust men , who have made laws , and executed them for us , without true calling to such a work ; and the lord alone will appear to be the king and judge and law-giver over all , and will commit the giving forth and execution of good laws into the power of faithful and just men ordained of god , who will judge for him altogether , and not for man , neither will be perverted by earthly honour and riches , but will regard the cause of the poor , and the afflicted ; and these things we are waiting for , to be brought to pass in their season , and the hand of the lord will accomplish it , if not by you , then even contrary to you . wherefore i am moved in spirit , and in love to you and to this nation , to lay it before you , and to desire it of you ( in whose hands the liberties of this nation yet remaineth ) that you will so prepare and allow the foundation of government in this nation , that the lord may be the chooser of our rulers , to give and to execute righteous laws for us , and that men that fears god and hates covetousness and every evil way , that just men and righteous men , men of truth and uprightness , men of humility and soberness , men that are constant to good principles , and such whom the lord hath blessed with the spirit of sound judgement , and with understanding , who may truly discern of causes and equally judge thereof , men that are for the just freedom of all , and for the general good of all , and men that in all things will seek the glory of the lord , be they rich or poor , high or low in birth or breeding ; yet let such be rulers among us , and judge this nation , that all that do well may have praise and be justified , and all that do evil may be afraid , and punished ; and hereby shall the whole nation be refreshed and comforted with the mercies of the lord , and his name shall be the greatest among us , and truth and righteousness should run down , when justice sits in the throne ; and not men for greatness sake , in titles or birth , or otherwise , chosen in tradition , and not by appointment of god , but men for vertues sake , and not for earthly honour which perisheth , not covetous nor ambitious men , not proud and vain-glorious men , not such as seeks the honour from below , that respects vain titles & flatteries of men , not such as will seek themselves , and be perverted by gifts , not such as are persecutors for a good conscience sake , that are zealous , but not according to knowledge , not wilful and heady men , not unconstant and changeable men , not traitors that have turned for self-advantage , and will change with the times to any way of government for earthly honour , for such will judge for man and not for god , not ignorant men that wants the spirit of sound judgement , nor such as are prophane and without the fear of god ; nor such as these , be they rich or great , let not such be our governours nor judge over us , to make laws and execute them for us in our nation ; let all such men be cast out from among you , and disenabled by certain just restrictions from ever receiving trust or authority over us ; for while such men have been in power and sate in the throne , justice and true judgement have been perverted , and our land hath groaned under oppre●sions , and the inhabitants mourned for very grief of heart , because of the abounding of injustice and cruelty through their rulers ; and the lord hath been vexed with them , while ini●uity hath sate upon the throne , and wilfulness judged the people , and mercy been wanting , and just judgement neglected , and the whole land hath laid desolate because hereof ; and therefore i call unto you on the lords behalf , make way and prepare for righteousness to sit as judge , & that men alone , that fears god , and are ordained of him thereunto , of what profession or birth soever they be , men of truth and justness , that have the spirit of a good understanding , and are called of god , may have authority in our nation , to give laws and execute them for us , such being brought into a capacity by you to be chosen , for to such men appointed of god , and fitted for that end , and truly called of him , being qualified as aforesaid , do we give the authority and power in our nation , to judge and to govern in the things pertaining to this world , and over us as we are members of this nation , and over the outward man , and in the things between man and man , even to be a terrour to such as are without the fear of god , and to punish such by just laws without ; as breaks the law of god within , though to the lord god alone , we give the authority and power over us to rule us and to judge us in that relation , as we are members of his kingdom , and over our inward man , and in the things pertaining to our consciences in all things related to his worship , and service , and faith , and practices in religion . and for as much as in the late dayes of darkness , through the unjust practice of government in the hands of uncalled and ungodly men , the exercise of our consciences hath been violated , by men not ordained of god , who have not known the perfect station , nor cause and end of civil government , nor how to rule and govern over us as men , and over our outward man ( which is onely the end of outward rule and government ) but have assumed unjustly the seat and throne of christ jesus , and have ruled over our consciences , and oppressed our inward man with false judgement imposed upon us , through limitting of us from and compelling of us to such or such a way of worship and religion , even contrary to the spirit of god , taking upon them without any call from god at all , but as vsurpers , to be judges in matters of faith , and doctrines , and worships , which pertains unto the one god , and not unto men ; and unto the spirit of christ we give the exercise of our consciences in our duty to god in all things pertaining to worship and faith towards him , and not unto you nor any man upon the earth ; but i say because the civil magistrate hath judged where he ought not in matters pertaining to god onely , and not to him , and so hath abused his power , and exceeded the measure and line of his authority , hereby have we been wofully oppressed in our consciences , and for the very pure exercise thereof , have we been accounted great offenders and even righteousness hath been punished , as a haynious crime , and the most innocent as great transgressors , even while the civil magistrate hath compelled to , and limmitted from such wayes of worships and practices of religion , and so been as lord over our consciences ; we have been an oppressed people , and killed all the day long , and our oppressions because hereof , hath reached unto heaven , and entred into the ears of the lord , and hath overturned , and confounded powers and authorities , men and lawes , even because of this thing , ( to wit , oppression of good conscience ) which may be to you examples for good , who cannot give his glory to any other , neither the exercise of his peoples consciences ▪ to any , saving his own spirit , that onely leads into all truth in worship and practice ; wherefore it is upon me to lay it before you ( even you as the first asserters of , and contenders for englands liberty ) and whom the lord hath honoured in beginning to remove tyranny and oppression , and reaching after our long lost liberties ) that you will learn wisdom from the god of heaven to be ordered to his glory , and to order others in righteousness , that you may escape the pits and snares that many are fallen into , in such pathes of oppre●sing tender conscience . and particularly that you will leave unto god alone the exercise of peoples consciences in faith and worship ; and clearly devide and distinguish between rule and government over the people of this nation as they are men , and members of the nation , and as members of the kingdom of christ , and worshipers of god in spirit ; and that you will put a difference between the civil government of our nation , in the things pertaining to mens bodies and estates , and their outward carriages as men one towards another and between church government and the things related to the worship and service of god , and in faith and practices of religion towards him , in which relation , we give the government over us to christ as i have said , for he alone is true judge concerning faith and worship and religon , and men are but to judge over men in those things that pertains to this world , and over the outward man ; and therefore i lay it before you that the foundation of government in our nation may be so allowed , confirmed and established by you , as that the civil magistrate may be prescribed by you , the very length and breadth , the heigth and depth of his authority and trust ; and that the exercise and liberty of our consciences in the worship and service of god may not be intrusted with him to judge over us in matters of faith & doctrines & worships , but that he may be wholly excluded , from medling in that case , and from imposing any thing upon our consciences in that relation ; and may not have the power to limit us from , or compell us to any such or such way of worship and religion , church and ministry , but that he may be secluded from judgement over us , in all things pertaining to the kingdom of christ iesus , and that our liberties and exercises in his worship and church and ministry may not be at all intrusted with any man , nor left to the judgement of the civil magistrate ; for christ alone by his good spirit , is supream judge , over our inward man , in all things pertaining to worship , faith , church and ministry . wherefore i call unto , and do advise you on the lords behalf ; let conscience go free , and leave it to the exercise of the spirit of god onely , do not limit the lord , nor prescribe him a way , how he must be believed in and worshipped ; for that belongs unto him and not unto you nor any man ; therefore i demand of you as our perfect right that you suffer the government of our nation to be so established , as that god may have his right ( to wit ) the full government in all things pertaining to his own kingdom ; and the civil magistrate may be secluded from judgement over us , in all things concerning and appertaining to the worship of our god , and faith towards him ; and also that all unrighteous lawes and decrees , yet remaining in the ●and , founded in the dark night of apostacy , and practiced in cruelty , whereby the exercise of good conscience hath been persecuted , and the innocent made as offenders , may be speedily repealed and made void , that henceforth for ever tender conscience may be freed , and the exercise thereof given to god alone , that he may judge and rule in his own kingdom , and just men may rule and judge in the things pertaining to the outward man , and over such as transgresseth the law of god within them , and hereby should blessings and peace , and loving kindness , and tender mercies from the lord spring forth in glory amongst us , and the nation would be refreshed from all its sorrowes , and eased from all its oppressions , and all righteous men would reioyce , and give glory to god , and ages to come , should speak well of you , if that the foundation of government be so setled by you , as that every man may enjoy his right one from another , and be defended therein ; and god the creator of all may possesse his right from all , and be suffered to be the onely exerciser of his people in his worship , that he may have what is due and belongs to him from you and all people , & such a government would be blessed for ever ; and if you fulfill this my advice you may be happy , but if you do not , but wil be oppressors of conscience by unjust laws , then the lord will bring distruction upon you , and overthrow your power ; and liberty will he bring some other way to his chosen heritage , in whom his soul delighteth ; therefore take this my councel , even as you hope to prosper , for this i know from the lord , upon the rejecting or receiving hereof dependeth your standing or your fall , your renown , or perpetual reproach , even your blessing or your curse , and the time is at hand that many shall confesse the lord gave good counsel unto you , by his servant lon. . of . mon. . edward bvrrovgh . the end . the english ballance weighing the reasons of englands present conjunction with france against the dutch vvith some observes upon his majesties declaration of liberty to tender consciences. mcward, robert, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the english ballance weighing the reasons of englands present conjunction with france against the dutch vvith some observes upon his majesties declaration of liberty to tender consciences. mcward, robert, ?- . p. s.n.] [london? : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- sovereign ( - : charles ii). -- his majesties declaration to his loving subjects march th, . dutch war, - . freedom of religion -- england. great britain -- history -- charles ii, - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the english ballance , weighing the reasons , of englands present conjunction with france , against the dutch. with some observes upon his majesties declaration , of liberty to tender consciences . prov . : v. . every purpose is established by counsel , and with good advice make war. prov . : v. . for by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war , and in multitude of counsellours , there is safety . printed in the year mdclxxii . the english ballance , weighing the reasons of englands present conjunction with france against the dutch. with some observes upon his majesties declaration , of liberty to tender consciences . the present aspect of affairs , being obviously such , as not onely amuseth all , but really concerneth the greatest part of the christian world , and my own proper interest ( not more from pure incapacity , then , real choice and inclination ) being most precisely confined , to that of religion , and reason , i presume , that if by a few sober reflexions , i break that common silence of my nation ( which seems to proceed rather from a deep amazement , then any other consideration ) i shall not therefore incurre the censure of singularity ; but if the fate of truth , shall neverthelesse expose me to the hatred of any , all i wish them , is , as little prejudice from their mistake , as i intend of particular advantage by the following representation . the subject then that moves me to this undertaking , is , briefly , the allarume of war , that soundeth every where , the tendency of the french. armes , against the united netherlands , and the apparent conjunction of the king of england , with the french , in this their invasion . what may be the pretenses of the french , just or unjust , since conjecture ( of all things most dareing ) hath not hitherto adventured upon the discovery , it were in vaine for me to attempt the research : it is known , that the estats most interessed , did addresse their inquirie unto the french king , who certainly knoweth best , and that upon the fairest account , viz. all just and reasonable satisfaction , and yet , had no other returne , save a slender notice , of their acknowledgement of the favours received from his antcestors , with a structure , upon their omission of his owne good deeds ( no doubt the dividing of the english fleet by beauforts imaginary assistance ) and then , a hint at late innovations in trade , visibly declining reason , by ane insinuat reference , to a neutral arbitration , without so much as a condescendence upon the subject , notwithstanding of the satisfaction offered ; concluding , with a scrupulous formalizing at the estats desire , to be cleared , about their evidently well grounded apprehensions , of his majesties extraordinary preparations , as if it were boorish incivility , to demand reason abroad , from a prince that makes his will to satisfy at home ; so that the king of france his tendernesse to abuse truth , and unwillingnesse to derogat from the confidence of his great power , by searching after a colourable pretext , where there is none to be found , appeares to be the most favourable account , that his procedour will admit of : it 's true , the advance of his romish superstition doth occurre , as a very probable incentive , but , as both justice doth repugne , and policy disswade from declaring it to be the cause , of this apprehended war ; so , i confesse the manifest decay , and neglect of religion , every where , this day in the earth , with his majesties not our addiction to his passions , and interests above all other ingagements , do rather incline me to think , that it is the insolent tyranny of these imperious lusts , pride and avarice , that doth thus derobe a great prince , of his solid glories , and pleasures , and in lieu thereof , with pain and hazard to himself , and injury to his neighbours , render him a slave to the motions of his insatiable appetit : but , though the candor i am resolved to use in this discourse , doth make me thus figure to my self , the french king's incitements ; yet , i am very far from thinking , that the matter of religion is no more interessed in this war , then intended : to knit the consequences of war , and victory , either to the declared causes , or influencing reasons of the undertakers , is , an error , that both reason and the experience of all ages doth abundantly disprove ; but why should i here make any profusion of reason , where common sense may be so convictive ? can popish armes prevail , and not establish popish superstition ? can this popish superstition have power , and not both prosper and persecute ? these are consequences so natural , and evident , that it were superfluous , either to challenge one instance dissonant , from the thousands , that confirme them , or to reminde what , and how successefully , the present french king hath ( what by force , and what by policy ) practised , in his own dominions : or lastly , to adde , that as the genius of popery , hath ever been most bent , to seek to reenter where it hath been ejected ; so it cannot but in this invasion be animat , by a great accession of vigour , in the hope , thereby to triumph in the conquest of the main fort , and bulwarke of the protestant interest : and verily these things are of themselves so obvious , that i almost blame their conduct , ( if onely designed for clearing of this point ) who of late have caused print , a letter to the estats , from their resident in vienna , acquainting them with the king of france his intentions , as by him communicat to the elector of mentz , viz. to daunton the pride of the estats general , and compel them to the restitution of ecclesiastick lands , and goods , and that assurance hereof , is long since given to the pope ; as if the manifest hazard of the protestant religion , from the french armes , and their approaches , and its infallible prejudice in their successe , not onely as to this restitution , but the subversion of its truth and purity , did need the accession of such a conjectural proof ? but it is indeed to be regrated , that such at present , should be the reguardlesse indifferency , in the matter of religion , of the neighbouring protestant princes and estats , that neither the undeniable evidences of all appearances , nor all the arguments whereby they may be seconded , seem sufficient , to awake them , from this dangerous slumber : the time was , when religion , as the most precious concerne , was also , the most endearing bond , of mutual alliance ; so that whereever it happened to be attacqued , neither distance , nor separation of other interests , did exempt , or excuse , from the common defence ; but men have long since , both in their hearts , and lives , cast it downe , from its excellency , and if there it hath lost its power , and influence , no wonder , that it be little operative on publick transactions : whether for this cause , the lord be now arisen to contend , first , with these united provinces , and thereafter with all the churches , is no doubt a question , which every man hath reason to move with trembling ; my hearts desire is , that as god by his dispensations , is threatning to punish , aswel by the lose of temporalities , sinfully overvalued , and abused , as by the removeal of his gospel , unworthily undervalued , and dispised ; so , his people may thence be warned , and instructed above all things , to seek his face , and peace , and thereby to engage him , to stand on their side , both on his own , and their behalfe , then shall the lord who waits to be gracious , exalt himself , that he may have mercy upon them , and joine his judgement to the justice of their cause , to scatter the proud & put downe the mighty , that men may see and say , surely there is a god that judgeth righteoush in the earth . but is it possible that matters standing thus , betwixt the french and dutch , and religion being so much concerned , in the event , the king of england should incline , to take part with the french , so manifestly contrair to righteousnesse and religion , yea to his faith , honour , and interest ? and really all these ( the maine , if not the onely determinations among rational men ) doe so directly oppose , and disswade this strange resolution , that , i sincerely professe , it is only from the surprise , and distrust of my reason , and not in the least from any purpose , to amaze men into my sentiments , that my wonder doth expresse itself , in this interrogation ; which , if any man doe still judge , to be an anticipation ; let him only forebeare what he censures ; and i hope , be shall be quickly satisfied . that i may therefore proceed clearly in this odd rancountre of affairs : although i doe heartily wish , that my supposition may never exist ; yet , seing it is the ground of the ensueing discourse , he who doubts its probability , may consider the following passages . first , the king of england his refusal upon the estats their just and reasonable demand , to give assurance for the performing of his part of the triple alliance . next , the known ordinary discourse of his court , pretending high provocations . . sir george downing , his late embassie , with the unusewall reserve by him practised , in the exposing of his demands , his sudden recall , and his refusing to receive the stats their answer , unto the memoire he had given in , about the flage . the straine of his majesties returne to this answer , when thereafter presented to him , whereby he plainly intimats his displeasure thereat , signifying that though he be willing to observe the triple alliance , yet he doth not judge himself thereby obliged , to suffer them to doe what they please , to his prejudice , nor to wrong their neighbours , in the matter of trade : asserting peremptorily , his soveraignity in the seas , and withal , demanding their positive answer , whether they will punish van gent for his not striking to his flage : and lastly the extraordinary correspondence entertained , betwixt the courts of england , and france , with their late treaty : the several millions of money it hath brought from france to england , & the designed expedition of the duke of monmouth , with some thousands of auxiliaries , into the french campaigne ; which passages being joined to the great and fervid sea preparations , wherein england is now bussied , doe in my opinion , sufficiently resolve , that the dutch are the marke whereat they are levelled , whether justly or unjustly comes next to be handled ? and certainly , if they have no other motive or end , then the french assistance , whatever injustice may be , in their causelesse invasion , or whatever detriment religion may suffer by their successe , doe fall upon the king of england , as an assistant , with higher aggravations , then can be fairly named , before that i doe first propose , and examine , the proper provocations , that he pretends : that , therefore reason and truth , may have their full exercise , and right , my endeavour shall be , to give an impartial and sincere , account of all , that fame or report hath hitherto communicat on this subject . that the king of england hath of a long time acclaimed , the soveraignity of the brittish seas , and therein also been universally acknowledged , by the formality of striking , is notour over all : and , as it is not my duety , willfully to diminish or impugne the former , so , the latter is expressely agreed to , by the dutch , in the last treaty of peace : but the difference at present , arising from this head , seems to be twofold , the first in matter of fact , viz. that the king of england accuseth the dutch , of an injurious affront , both against his right , and the late treaty , in as much as their fleet , under van gent's conduct , did of late , refuse to strike sail , to one of his jachts , bearing his flage . to which the dutch answer , that the kings right being drawn unto the treaty , for its better confirmation , it must thence take all its measures , and it being thereby only provided , that all dutch ships , shall strike to the king's men of war , in the british seas , as the cleare termes of the treaty in the art : thereof , and the quality of the jacht , being onely a pleasure boat , and no man of war , doe furnish a defence for what is past ; so , by their answer above mentioned to sir george downings memoire , they offer , that if his maj. will observe the triple alliance , they will still agree , that all dutch ships shall strike to his ships of war ; but the king not herewith satisfied , desires the estats , to be positive , whether or not they will inflict punishment on van gent ? as we have heard : the other branch of this difference toucheth the point of right , the king of england asserting peremptorily , in his above mentioned answer to the estats , his dominion , and soveraignity over the narrow seas , and the dutches , hitherto silently forebearing , either to debate , or consent to the claime : the next ground of provocation discoursed of , in the king of englands court ( for as yet it hath proceeded no further ) is the making & publishing amongst the dutch of certain scandalous pictures , and pamphlets , to the king's dishonour , whereof some , at least one , viz. the picture dedicat , and affixed by the towne of dort , in the stadt-house , to the honour of cornelius de wit , in memorie of his attacque at chattam , bearing the draught of the thing , with certain lines of elogy subjoined , ( all no doubt contrived with the lustre of advantages sutable to the designe ) licensed by authority , and the rest onely of privat authors , but publickely permitted , and of this kinde ( as is reported at court ) a pourtrait of the king of england , surrounded by some ladies of pleasure , bussied in picking his pockets , is most noticed , and talked of : the third pretense for war , intimat by the king of england's last answer , above spoken of , wherein he saith , that though he be willing to stand to the triple alliance ; yet , he is not thereby obliged , to suffer , either things prejudicial to his own honour , or them , to doe what injuries to their neighbours in matter of trade , that they think fit ; which last passage , is no doubt to be understood of the same innovations in trade , complained upon , by the king of france , his letter , as we have said : but what these are , is alike obscure in both , and remain's yet to be explained . this being the summe of what i have learned , of the king of england's provocation : their import , and merit , is in the next place to be weighed : to discourse then first the alledged incivility of van ghent ; i know , it would be thought ridiculous , for me to endeavour , to accommodat this mistake , by these gospel rules of simplicity , meeknesse , and divine goodnesse , to offer to square the actings of princes , and stats , in such emergents , by that deference , forebearance , and readinesse to pardon , held forth ; in its high and heavenly precepts , in prejudice of their grosse , and vain politicks , would be in the construction of these delicat spirits , and refined witts , ( which deceive themselves and others , to the foolish admiration , and esteeme of things of no moment , ) to trample upon the tender point of honour , and dissolve the noble frame of interest : neither shall i at this time further urge , the difference pretended by the dutch , betwixt a man of war and a jacht ; impartialitie must certainly graunt , that the refusing to strike to this vessel , ( if in the brittish seas ) which ten yeers agoe the dutch had not scrupled to honour as a man of war , and not much above a hundred yeers , might possibly have served for their admiral , could onely have flowed from their late successe , and elevation ; but as it is aboundantly evident , that , nothing save a fatal misfortune , could engage either party , to forme a quarrel upon this only occasion , and that without the influence , of far different considerations , the king of england would not therein , have shewed himself so uneasie ; so , it must be acknowledged , that in so light an offence , not destitut , at least of a colourable excuse , the dutch their offer of good performance , for the time to come , is as much as in reason , can be expected : the next point that occurres , is , the king of england's soveraignity , over the brittish seas , whereof at present he appeares to be very jealous , and questionlesse if his majesty doe not content himself , with the formality of striking , as his sole prerogative , but holds it only for a marke of due recognisance , asserting withal , his soveraignity indefinitly , as to all effects , that such a title may import ; it 's value , doth not more deserve his jealousie , then it's consequences may justly , excit all , to inquire into his pretenses . i shall not here table the debate , an mare sit liberum an clausum , the reasons of those learned men , who have managed it , pro and con : doe , in my opinion , very happily compose it , in this reconciliation : that , as the nature , and end of the seas , doe plainly appeare , incapable of dominion , so , in as far as they are destined , and doe serve , for common use , the expresse or presumptive consent of one people , may qualify , restrict , or renounce the same , in favours of another ; and , thus we see , that wherever dominion over particular seas , are acclaimed , their effects are not onely precisely limited , but almost every where different , so , to one is given thereby the sole benefit of fishing , to another a certain tribut , to a third the power of jurisdiction , and so forth to every one , as restrictedly to the condition of his right , as to its respective bounds , either of which , if the owner should happen to transgresse , his dominion would be in so far , reput , an insignificant plea ; so that this maritime dominion , not being of the nature of terrene propriety , of it self absolute , unto all intents , ( unlesse diminished by law or the owners concession ) but meerly , a certain priviledge , or servitude , established by consent , in that which of it self , is , as the air , reserved for common use , it 's evident , that the consent , and possession , which constitut the right , doe in like manner define it's extent : and that upon the pretext of some particularities conceded , to arrogat an unlimited soveraignity , would , both in reason , and in the event , prove an insupportable usurpation . hence it is , that for all england's glorieing , in this , our dignity , and for all the power , ( wherewith no doubt , we both did acquire , and doe continue it ) yet , it hath not to this day , been further recognosced , even in the channel , ( it 's principal seat and subject , and where it hath alwayes affected it's maine parad : for as to the other brittish seas , which are onely , the neerest circumambient parts of the wide ocean , the law of nations doth onely attribut to england its common priviledge ) then by the bare ceremony of the first salute ; neither in the last treaty , wherein the king of england was greatly concerned , and no lesse solicitous to cleare this title , was there any thing else agreed unto , as i have already marked ; and without all peradventure , if his majesty in the conceit of his dominion , should once offer to exert it , though but in very ordinary effects , such as the assuming of jurisdiction , or imposing of tribute , whereof the sound and adriatick do exhibit cleare precedents ; he would soone be made to understand his error , not onely by the reclaming dissent , but also , by the vigourous opposition of all his neighbours : i might insist to disprove this pretense of an indefinit dominion , from the far more rational judgement , of the ancient romans , who not only reckoned the sea with the air , inter ea quae sunt nullius ; but , though by reason of the encircling of their vast empire , they might have acclaimed , even the whole mediterranean sea , jure diverticuli , & in many parts thereof , had indeed several powers , and priviledges ; yet , were they so far from captating this vaine and groundlesse title , that one of the greatest emperours , begins a rescript , with relation to this same subject , in these words , ego quidem munai dominus , lex vero maris : thereby manifestly holding forth , that , as he judged it incapable of dominion , so it 's unstable nature , and common destination , could only be regulat , as to humane concernes , in so far , as law , and consequently , condition or consent , did determine : from all which , i conclude , that as the dutch , doe fully satisfie , all that in justice , the king of england can demand , by their offering to strike , conforme to the last treatie , and have good reason to repugne , either to his indefinit soveraignity , or any further preheminence , for which nothing anterior to the said last treaty , can in reason be obtruded ; so , his pressing them further , in this affair , is , both captious , and unjust , and he might upon as good grounds , refuse them the liberty , of a free passage in the channel , as exspect of them a consent , to adominion , which if not cautioned , by a particular explication , might assuredly be thereto extended . the second ground of offence mentioned , is , that of the scandalous pictures and pamphlets : but as every sober person , may justly apprehend , that , that prudence , which often adviseth a connivent dissembling , of things of this nature , at home , will far more restraine , any such contentious inquiries , as may advance unto a challenge abroad ; so , in case it should here prove too feeble , for the provocation pretended , it is evident , that only such of those pictures , and pamphlets , as are indeed injuriously reproachful , and are licensed , or openly countenanced by the stats , their authority , can warrant the king of england's charge ; by which rule if any man please to examine , the above mentioned condescendence , he must of necessity rest satisfied , that on the one hand , the picture dedicat to de witt , being onely a true , and honourable representation , rej gestae , containing nothing more , then the most ordinary , and easie reward , and encouragement of heroick atcheivements , and consequently free of all shaddow of reproach , and on the other hand , that picture of his maj. with his paramours , being at most ( if any such thing was at all ) a wanton privateer timeously enough suppressed , when noticed , and so not chargeable upon authority , until once questioned , do no wayes amount to a sufficient verification ; whether there be any other pictures , or what there may be in those pamphlets , i must confesse , that for my own part , all the matter of this article doth appeare to me so light , and slender , that my curiosity hath not hitherto been tempted to an inquiry : this onely i am assured of , that if injuries of this kinde may be compensat , by a counter-charge , the dutch may quickly ballance this account , the english disdain of the dutch is an infinit theme : it 's true , either its excesse , or some other cause , hath hindered it , to shew it self , in the ingenuousnesse of pictures , and the like phansies ; but he who judgeth this , to be a want , may easily finde it supplied by ane immense overplus of pride , and contumelie , in their discourses , and descriptions of that people , both old and late : one thing i may further adde upon this subject , that for that picture instanced of the king of england , and the ladies , even interest and policy seeme to absolve the estats of any advice to the painter , or other accession unto it . the . ground of provocation , intimat by the king of englands last letter to the estats , is , that his majesty thinks himself not bound to suffer the dutch , to do what injuries they please to their neighbours , in matter of trade , which if we consider , with a respect to the king's acknowledgement , of the triple alliance , and with this onely import , as if he did not judge himself thereby bound , to concurre with , and assist the dutch , in their injustice , is no doubt fair & righteous , & when made out , cannot but excuse him , to abandon the dutch , in any such unequal controversy , they may fall into with the french , or any other ; although , whether it may , in like manner , warrant him , to passe froma neutrality , and take part with their adversaries , when there appeares no ingagement of his own proper interest , may still remaine a question : but seing the circumstances , and whole straine of that letter , togither with it's coincidence with the king of france , his complaint of the dutch innovations , doe visibly hold forth , a quit other tendency , in the expression , and in plain english , that his majesty presuming upon his soveraignity of the seas , or some other ground , known to himself , would have the dutch to submit to his arbitration ; upon whatsoever difference , the french may alledge : such an officious interposing , without so much as the pretext , either of a solid title , or real occasion , is palpably void of all colour of right ; so , that in effect , the challenge here couched , in place of a declaration of a just offence , doth only exhibit , to the construction of ingenuitie , his majesties compliance , with the french resentments , and his resolution , to second their armes just or injust , and procure their satisfaction : as to the innovations , or injuries in trade , generally hinted at , when their majesties , are both so reserved , who can be expresse ? the increase of the dutch in this matter , is indeed very extraordinary , both to the prejudice and envie of all their neighbours ; but , seing it is so assured , that all the dutch their advantages in trade , are the pure effects , of their own greater industry , and sobrietie , that neither of the kings have as yet , thought it fit to acquaint the world , with the particulars of their complaint , it is cleare that these murmurings , so like to the repineings of profuse debauches , equally covering and lazie , to the proportion of their immense riot , against men of vertue , and diligence , can never amount to a justifiable quarrel : i know , injuries in the remote parts of africk and asia , have been discoursed of , and in special , that the dutch doe there , either secretly instigat , or by compact , oblige the natives , to exclude all others , and principally the english , from commerce in their bounds , ( and this was also the great pretext of the last war ) but , whither this be only an invention , simulating to come from far , the better to cover it's groundlesse contriveance at home , or , that the dutch by a more happy , and dexterous addresse , in these many lawful wayes , and methods , that may be practised , doe indeed prevail , and carry the affection and trade of these countreys , to the neglect and dammage of other adventurers , i am not inquisitive ? onely , as there hath not hither to been given , any satisfieing information , in matter of fact ; so , i am very confident , that if artifice , and covetousnesse , were sufficient , to compasse such a priviledge , neither english nor french , in these parts , had been at this day , short of those , at whom they thus unreasonably grudge : i need not here much notice , the grievance talked of , by some , against the dutch , for their excessive transportation of gold and silver , to the east indies : that the thing is an abuse in it self , draining europe , of it's best substance , to the languishing of trade , and arts , and the occasioning of many miseries , and that in such a measure , as even the treasures of america , which europe hath lately devoured , are not to be known , but , it 's leannesse rather greater , then before , and for no better returne , then that , of spiceries , drugges and other the like superfluities , is , too too visible : neither can it be denied , that the dutch , their east indie company , who suck our much of the substance of europe , as the english their company doth impoverish all england , are , deepest in the transgression ; but , seing , beside what may be alledged , from the absolute power , and liberty , competent to every prince or state , in these matters , the restraining of this evil , is so far from being the ground of the controversie , that on the contrair , the contest , is much animat , by the envie at , and desire of the same pernicious profit , it is evident , that the king of england's plea is nothing thereby bettered . having thus weighed and rejected the king of englands proper pretenses , i am sorry , that such a soul conclusion , doth so fairly present , viz. that , his majesties present concurrence with the french , against the dutch is , not onely a manifest partaking with them , in their injustice , and violence , but accompanied , with such circumstances , as doe render the accessory , an hundred fold more guilty then the pall : which that i may more distinctly explicat , i shall breifly reduce , what remains , to the heads proposed , viz. that this assistance , of the king of england , is aggravat on his part , from no lesse opposition , then that of religion , faith , honour , and interest : the dearest and highest of all concernes . and first for religion , it is evident , that it's disswasion , cannot be called in question , by any , who doe not doubt his majestie to be a protestant ; for , seing the truth and protestant cause , are unavoidably threatened , by the french successe , what rational man can think , that a protestant prince should second them , in the interprise ? and really , the connexion of these things , is so obvious , that , it cannot but be grievous , to all his majesties wel wishers , to heare , and understand , how , that his present proceedings , have so much every where brought his affection to this interest , under debate : i need not here mention , the specious title , that he assumes , of defender of the faith , it's engagements , hitherto , have proved so insignificant , that such as before did hesitat , doe now begin to say openly , that his resentment of gratitude , toward the sea of rome , that conferred it , do in effect seem to preponderat all it 's reall import , and that henry the eighth his scribling against luther , which procured him from the pope this title of the faith's defender , was not in any proportion , that way so considerable ; as charles the second his present arming against the dutch , may very justly entitle him , with all true protestants , to be the faith's betrayer : whether he will hold on the paralel , and disappoint all appearances and their feares , as the same henry did the pope his author , the event will testify , and that he may , is my hearty desire ? the next head that prohibits this apprehended assistance , is , that of faith , and in this togither with the more common assurances of humanity , christianity , and protestanisme , doe conspire the special engagements , both of the late treaty , and triple alliance , whereby , the king of england , and the estats , are expressely bound to keep true , firme , and inviolable peace , and neerer , and stricter alliance , and union , from that day foreward , &c. all which , if he should now breake , strangers may indeed exceedingly wonder : i say strangers , for as for us , his subjects , sad experience hath aboundantly instructed us , that all our part in this matter , is , to wish , that where neither religion nor faith have availed , yet at least common honesty , and good fame may be prevalent . the third disswasive that offers , against this concurrence , is honour : and certainly , where religion and faith doe claime so great a part , honour cannot but have a very large share ; but because these succumbeing , no doubt their concomitant will evanish , as a shaddow , it doth therefore present , upon a distinct ground , and pleads from its own peculiar merit . that the english nation sometimes masters , and ever equal to the french , should not now , be degraded unto a base and mercenary subserviency , it vvould be of moment , vvith a generous person , to suspend , even a real , let be , a groundlesse provocation , rather then to resent it , snakeingly , against his partie , under another's disadvantage ; but , neither can policy be exacted to these rules , nor doth the present case stand upon such a punctilio : our substance and power , with the noble ascendent , that the genius of this nation , hath alwayes had , over that of the french , do upon more solid grounds , equally disdaine , both the switzers service , & munsters hire , and that the king of england , should become a pensionary of the french king , is a novelty , that hath hitherto had no precedent : but it may be said , that however we may thus calculat , on the one side ; yet on the other , if we remember the bussinesse of chattam , and the dutch their late exaltation , these cannot but chock every true english heart , and to such at least , as are tenderly sensible of this delicat point of honour , excuse us , to embrace any occasion , whereby we may soonest , and best , retrive that of our nation , unto it's former splendor : i graunt indeed , that , that affair of chattam , was a high affront , turning in effect england's glory , & the worlds terror , unto the contempt & scorne of a feeble defence , and in our estimation , delivering , what was as neptun's throne , to be dragged in triumph , by poor distressed fishers ; so , as i suppose , that it may be truly affirmed , as the fairest account of his majesties displeasure , that his resentment of the chattam-attacque , is at the root of all : which as on the one hand , it hath been notably improved by the french caresses , wherewith it is known , that they have plied , both his majesty , and his favourits , at all points : so , in all probability , the envy of the dutch prosperity , the irritation of van ghent's goe-by , and the opportunity of the french invasion , with the temptation of their money , have heightened all other grounds of misunderstanding , and advanced the indignation unto this present menacing posture : and thus i confesse things may stand , on the king of england's part : but , seing the surprise of chattam , was on the dutch their part , a fair act of hostility , rather advanced , then obscured , by the treaty , begun with the warning of an expresse proviso , of no cessation , it cannot but be graunted , that all these circumstances of his majesties disgrace , did onely redound , and accumulate , to the dutch their honour ; so , that now , after the thing is voided by an ensueing peace , and so long after , to meditat the revenge of that , which we had neither the providence , nor courage , in it's season to have prevented , nor perhaps durst yet notice , if the conjunction of the french , did not thereto prompt ; besids it's injustice , is an impotency , more shameful , then the cause that provocks it : nay when i reflect upon the dutch , their then successe , togither with that pusillanimitie , and distresse , that appeared in our court , and that confusion and consternation , which at that time , did seise not onely london , but the whole nation , and withal consider , how little the dutch did presse these advantages , either by an irruption into that feareful breach , continuance of the war , or shewing themselves more uneasie , in the dependent treaty , i cannot but judge , that the dutch their so singular moderation , and disposition to peace , when england was in its lowest state , ought to be a most powerful mitigation , and utterly to efface all rancour against a people as generous in their carriage , and condescensions , as valarous in their atcheivements : as for the goe-by given by the dutch vice-admiral and fleet to a pitieful pleasure-boat , it is allready examined . the fourth and last head , that opposeth the king of england's resolution , against the dutch , is , that of interest : and this indeed is so much the more to be pondered , that not onely for the most part , it hath the greatest sway in humane affairs , but in this present bussinesse is in effect , the cheife inducement , wherewith many of this nation flatter themselves , and would delude others ; for , seing , that the dutch , are the only people , who can compet with the english in naval forces , and that of late , they have in a manner rendred themselves masters , of the whole trade of the world , to the prejudice of england , and all others , and thereby doe alone hold the ballance , against us ; it , must of necessity be graunted , that the dominion will prove england's exaltation : and as to the feare of too much aggrandizing france's naval strength ( for as to their power by land , while england retains the command of the seas , it is not to be reguarded ) it is aboundantly excluded , both by the assurance we have , of the dutch their readinesse to accept of peace , at our pleasure , and of the french their remedilesse want of seamen , and their nurseries , wherewith england is so richly stored : but , though this reasoning , doth appeare plausible , yet , how quickly is it dashed , by this one short , and obvious supposition , what if the english fleet be beaten ? which as the righteousnesse , and omnipotent power of the great god , the lord of hosts , the injustice of our cause , and the dreadful wickednesse of the land , the judgements of plague , sword , fire , and wasting consumption , which we have already felt , without repentance , his majesties motto jer. . . which hitherto hath not failed , and the injury offered unto the dutch , with their inclination to peace , and forced necessity to war , doe render many degrees more probable ; so i am sure , that the known distractions , and greivances of the nation , oppressed , by both court and parliament , and yet these two divided one against the other , the strange difficulties , and courses taken , in the out-rigge of the present fleet , perverting right , and starving trade , by the stop of the exchecquer , and trampling upon the nations honour and interest , by that base and dangerous supply from france , doe thence portend most sad and funest consequences , and these , so much the more assured , and terrible , that they seem infallibly to depend , not on the disasterous successe of a long war , but on the very simple miscarriage of the first rancountre , and if thereby all the flatteries of our vaine hopes , be not infinitly overballanced , let all sober men judge . but not alwayes to ominat the worst , admit we doe overcome at first , doth not our late experience , sufficiently teach us , that we by our courage , may gaine fights , and yet by reason of want of stock , lose and be inferiour in the war : next , when we are superior in the war , where are our solid advantages , and who can finde out , and establish that midds , whereby , neither the french on the one hand , shall reap too great benefit , by the dutch their ruine , and so be rendered a more powerful competitor ; nor the dutch , on the other , recover all their former habitudes , and successe in trade ; seing in effect , both their present increase , and our decay , are from causes altogither inward , as we may heare ? thirdly , doe we willfully shut our eyes ; and will we not understand , that the french , first with the dutch , and now with us , will againe tack about to the dutch , in case , that we do prevaile : and this leads me to wonder , at the emptinesse and insignificancy of the consideration , opposed to the just feares of the french their rising greatnesse : if the late extraordinary beginnings of their sea forces , do not convincingly assure , a sutable advance ; yet , their kings first joining with the dutch , to quash and weaken the english , and now turning to the english , to suppresse the dutch , may palpably discover his designe , either to be himself master of both , or at least , to suffer neither of them , to overtop him : now as to the nurseries we boast of , the thames , our far more happy side of the channel , new-castle trade , and forraigne plantations , are no doubt brave conveniencies ; and yet a man may well think , that the french , their many sea ports , and rivers , great trade , and also plantations , with their money that answers all things , may in short time , become more then equal : while spain had the ascendent , the maxime for the english and dutch , was , in the embleme of two bottles , swimming together , with their motto : si concutimur , frangimur : that it should be antiquat , upon the french their far more formidable prevalency , i wish the event do not too late discover the error : o how happy might the english be , if but wise , to advert , how that their recovery of trade , strength and riches , could not possibly misse , by a far more easie expedient , and that in brief ( for i may not enlarge ) consisting , in the simple reforme of three things , viz. first , of our excesse , in respect of the dutch frugality , who by their sobriety and hard fare both by sea and land , do evidently facilitat both manufacture , and transport , to the underselling of all others , and the great advancement of their gaine . of the luxury of our court , vvhereby thousands , specialy of the youth , are debauched , from all vertue , and those summes , vvhich might be a great accession , to the trading stock of the nation , turned out of that channel , to the maintenance of prodigality , and that beggarly villanous traine , vvherevvith they are attended : and , of our church & clergy , by vvhose jealous persecutions , irreligious neglect of their office , & sacrilegious consumption of their benefices , and church livings , so many sober persons , have been , and still are , ruined , or discouraged , so much vice and idlenesse continually fomented , and so great a treasure of money improfitably imployed , and wasted . but though the words of wisdome are all in righteousnesse ; yet , knowledge is onely easie to him that hath understanding . i might here further adde , how far more glorious and profitable it would be , for the king of england , in this conjuncture , to show himself protector of the protestant cause , and thereby , not onely gaine the more cordial and intense affection , of all his subjects , and the esteem and honour of all the reformed nations , and churches ; but more powerfully binde the dutch , to all his reasonable demands , to containe himself in peace , and let his subjects , so much the more plentifully gather it 's sweet fruits , while others in their miserable contendings , doe neglect them : and lastly , to hold the ballance , and in its season absolutely umpire it , amongst all his neighbours , when wearied , and broken by wars , to the restoring of peace , setling of right , and the high advancement of the interest of the english nation : but who is so blinde as he who will not see ? his majesty is abandoned to his humors , and the solidity of the english nation , that hath ever had a very sound discerning and noble misreguard of the airienesse , & instability of the french , is at present , exposed , by the cheat of their complements , to the worst designe of their policy . the dutch , to gratifie the king of england , have , of late , advanced the prince of orange , and he who questioneth the ingrediency of this motive , i am sure , may quickly be satisfied , by an easie reflexion , upon the late prince his odd extravagancies , and what ensued ; this prince his relation to the king of england , with the influences , that thence may be feared , and the tempting occasion , that the continuance of such a command , after the wars , may give ; yet , is not this like to prove a diversion : it is further certain , that the generality of his majesties subjects , both from the conviction of the reasons above exposed , the increase of grievances , which they begin to feel , and the visible insolency , whereunto a restlesse popish party , in our own bowels , are already encouraged , doe , from their heart , equally detest the french conjunction , and dislike this breach with the dutch : but neither is this a more promising disswasive , so that after all the serutiny i have made , in this affair , i must professe , that by such a combination of most important , and evident disswasives , my thoughts , in the apprehensions of this fatal war , are quite run up to this one , for a rest , that the thing if it fall out , is from the lord , and what he hath determined will quickly appeare . it remains now , for conclusion , that i at least name the duetie , to which all this discourse hath so full and fair a tendency , and that all the lovers of truth , his majesties , and england's wel-being , would be earnest with god , to turn the king from this evil course , and direct him , unto better counsels , is , i am sure a warrantable , seasonable , and loyal part ; but if god in his holy providence shall permit him to proceed , his authority , cannot warrant our obedience , unto such a sinful concurrence : i know , that of late , that apostolick position , it is better to obey god then man , hath been much decried , as fanatick , and seditious , and that for me to insist on such an exhortation , would be derided , by many , as vain and ridiculous canting : but , however men receive it , i am sure with the apostle paul , that the judgment of god , is according to truth , against them which commit such things , to render tribulation and anguish , unto every soul of man that doeth evil , to the subject as wel as unto the prince , and that with god there is no respect of persons : neither is the insufficiency of this plea , of the authority of princes , in opposition to the law of god , yet to be determined ; ephraim but walked willingly after the commandment , yet was he therefore oppressed , and broken in judgement . the time was , in england , when men , rather then to betray their civil liberty , to the will of arbitrarie orders , did chuse to suffer the imprisonment of their persons , and ruine of their whole estats , when , they might have redeemed both , by a very small voluntary payment : shall we then now , so far degenerat , as not only to give our moneyes , and estats , but surrender , and sacrifice our blood , lives , and souls to the carrying on of an unjust war , against both religion , and righteousnesse ? god forbid : now if it be asked , what then should we do ? i am no furious fanatick , my answer is plain and safe , onely sin not , by any direct accession to this unrighteous war , and if ye therefore be put to suffer , remember , that , blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousnesse sake , for their's is the kingdome of heaven , and he is also faithful who will not suffer us to be tempted , above what we are able : but if men say , nay , but we will obey our prince , be avenged upon these insolents , recover our honour , and restore our trade ; let them be doing , and be strong for the battel , god may make them fall before the enemie , for he hath power to helpe the injured , and to cast downe the proud : once more , therefore , be warned , and remember , and feare , lest if ye still doe wickedly , ye be consumed both ye and your king. postscript . after i had digested the foregoing discourse , i confesse the evident improbability , of the king of england's grounds , did make me subsist in the conviction , that , either i had superfluously laboured , to prevent a vaine feare , or at least , might expect , some far more weighty reasons , then any i have mentioned ; but behold , a new surprisal both to me , and all that heare of it . the dutch menaced by the french kings power , and forces , are not only willing to comply with all reason , for the establishing of a good understanding with the king of england , and the obtaining of his favour ; but , by a new embassie and very obliging proposals , are courting him , if he cannot keep faith , and the late alliance , at least , to the safe and advantagious part , of a fair neutrality ; when on a sudden , his men of war , are sent out , and in open hostility , set upon the dutch merchants , returning thorow the channel , looking for no such thing , but on the contrair , wholly amazed at the rancountre , and there sink , and take what they are able : now , when , or where was ever the like heard ? that the king of england , a king , and a great king , a man in appearance , and a christian by title , and a protestant by profession , should not only , contrair to all the manifest reasons above adduced , combine to assist the french , and popish armes , against an oppressed protestant state , desirous of nothing more then peace , and quiet : but become himself the first invader , and that in plaine piratick violence , without any preceeding denunciation of war. i shall not now repeat any thing that i have said , nor in effect add much , in a matter so palpable to the meanest discerning , it is certainly a matter of sad regrat , to see both our court thus wheedled by french illusions , and againe the nation forced , and driven , by the courts influences , to become the principal party , in a war , wherein , their assistance was more then was expected , and hounded out , to the first attacque ; whereas their instigators resolutions , were not published : if ordinary reason did not suffice , to governe our passion , yet a man may well think , that at least our experience , and knowledge of the french their politick and safe procedoure , in their last assistance promised to the dutch , might have restrained this precipitation , which i am sure , is so absurd , and ridiculous ; that if the french should also hover ( though that is not now to be supposed ) and suspend for this yeer their invasion , in the pleasant observation , of the happy successe of their designes , in the mutual contentions , and ruines of the two nations , in whose overthrow , they must apprehend their advantage to ly ; nay , in the end , should lend their hand , to setup the dutch ( if brought under ) for continuing the war , it would undoubtedly prove , as much their advantage as recreation . but suppose we would on any termes fight the dutch , are we indeed so blind with rage , as to have omitted the premising of a publick declaration , which in such a case , the law , and custome of all nations , and ages , doth manifestly require ? or if the equity of this promulgation , founded in that cleare rule , omnia prius experiri quam armis sapientem decet : and confirmed , both by reason , and the law of god , deut : . , could not move , yet , should not the positive necessity of this formality , as to the honour and effects , at least , of a solemne vvar , and for hindering the soveraigne of the seas from becoming the archest of pyrats , have prevailed upon us ? i graunt , it had been a difficult task , to have said any thing handsomely , let be reasonably , on such a subject ; and yet , on the other part , i am confident , that if some remains of natural shame , had not opposed an expresse confession of our folly , and vvickednesse , vve vvould rather have ventured upon the vvorlds lighter censure , then incurred their detasting horrour . but vvhy do i inlarge ? or vvhat do i exspect by reasoning ? nay , quid vota furentem , &c. that the dutch their small lose , through this treachery , is infinitly compensed , by the gaine it brings , of all other nations favour , and an accession of as much more confidence in god , and firme courage , as the king of england hath added of dishonour to his violence , is too too evident : how much more it may excit my countrey men to the dueties , whereunto i have exhorted , i leave it to the perswasion of the thing it self , which needeth no words either to illustrat , or enforce it . ambrose tells us of the primitive times , julianus imperator apostata , babuit sub sa christianos milites , quibus cum dicebat , producite actem pro defensiane ret publicae , obediebant ; cum autem eis dicoret producite arma , in christianos , tunc agnosceb●● imperatorem coeli : which passage , doth here so exactly quadrat , as i am assured , that every one , who reveres the same great god , must acknowledge its force . but our god is in the heaven , he will do whatsoever he pleaseth . a more particular reviewe of his majesties declarations for his war with the dutch , and indulgence to tender consciences . observing in the postscript to my former , that the king of england had taken up armes , i thought , that there i had also laid down my pen ; but since it hath at length , pleased his majesty to appeare in print , in a declaration of war , against the stats general , &c. and likewise in an other of indulgence to all his loving subjects ; their relation to my former discourse , hath likewise inclined me , to a summar reviewe of both : and because the war is now certain and formed , i suppose it may conduce , to a more satisfying understanding of the whole , that by way of preface i briefly resume it's progresse , unto the present period . there are not yet many moneths past , since the dutch , of a long time threatned by the french king , his preparations , and approaches , did solicite the king of england to their aid conforme to their alliance , which though by reason of former resentments , and late displeasures , was indeed hopelesse ; yet , most men thought , that the singular benefit of peace , in the midst of our neighbours wars , the greater likelyhood of the dutch their condescendence , and submission , in the hope of reliefe , then in desperat hostilitie , with the assured satisfaction , either of an easie revenge , upon the dutch , continueing refractory , by the hand of the french , or of the advantageous glory of umpireing it betwixt both , would undoubtedly determin us , to subsist , in an attentive , and well prepared neutrality ; but the french their addresse , and advance , prevailing upon our inconstant passions , and debauched penury we proceed , notwithstanding of the genius , inclination , and interest of the nation , and the dissvvasion both of reason and religion , to ballance to the french assistance ; vvhich vvas the occasion of my first discourse : and neither in this shevving more fixednesse , the precipitancy of error and fury still driveing , vve on a sudden , in the very time , that the dutch had sent an extraordinary ambassadour to propose their utmost condescensions , for appeasing us , vvithout any promulgation of vvar , fall upon the merchant ships , returning , & striking to us , in the channel , destroying and taking all we could , as i have remarked in my foregoing postscript , and thereafter we emitt the declaration of war , which cometh now to be examined : wherein ( suppressing the date , as being ashamed to confesse our anterior piratick violence ) his majesty , beginning with the attestation , of his own zeal , for the quiet of christendome , hopeth , that the world will beleeve , that it is inevitable necessity , forceth him to armes : i shall not question the truth of his majesties confidence , in this insinuation ; though i heartily wish , that he could have appealed to some more known , and credible proof : he tells us indeed , that after his restauration : ( which was in the yeer ) his first work was to establish peace with his neighbours , and to conclude a strict league with the dutch : but as this was at best , nothing more then a convenient formality , in such ane exigent ; so , we know too well the horrible subversions , and persecutions , wherein , contrair to his solemne oaths , and promises , both old and late , he was at that time exercised in , at home , to conclude from this his short and necessary abstaining from forraigne disturbances , that reguard which he pretends for christendomes quiet . as for his sudden rupture with the dutch , in the yeer , he foreseeth the objection , and would lay it upon the parliament , moved thereto , by the dutch their injuries , and oppressions , and justifieth it , by his preceeding endeavours , of a reasonable accommodation ; but will the world receive this naked affirmation , when as it neither then had , nor is it ever like to have , a distinct , let be a satisfying account , of that matter ? and even england is convinced , that nothing save a maligne envy , influenced , by the sinistruous designes , of a corrupt minister , and a vaine royal company , did pousse us on , to that extravagance , and with what tendernesse of christendom's peace , we in the prosecution thereof , hired the bishop of munster , to a land invasion , needeth not my pen to make it be remembred : as for the shameful , and disastruous event of that war , i should not have mentioned it , the dutch their braving it , upon our coasts , in the end of the yeer routing our whole fleet , in , sole masters of the sea , infesting our ports ( to the very beseiging of the nation ) firing therein our best ships , and leading our charles in triumph , in the , are things too sad , and recent , for a true english man , to think on , without confusion and blushing . but seing his majesty is pleased , to say , that his victories , and the dutch losses , were memorable enough , to put them in mind of being more faithful : i cannot but regrat , that the nations , from such a reference , should have such ample ground , both to condemne us , upon our owne allegations , aud flout us , for our vaine effrontry : but to let passe this pitiful transition , we are in the next place told , that the last peace was no sooner made , but the tutch returned to their use of breaking articles and supplaenting our trade : as for instance foresooth , the stats were particularly engaged , by an article of the treaty at breda , to send commissioners to london for regulating of the east-indie trade ; but they were so far from it , that on the contrary , our ambassadours were by them slighted , and no forebearance of farmer wrongs obtained . a man might have thought , that such ane open challenge of perfidy , and fraud , would certainly be followed , by a weighty and liquid condescendence , and that in place of the accidental misgive of a meeting , not peremptorily appointed , instance might at lest have been made , in some on or other , of those wrongs complained of , specially , seing , that his majesty , in the bussinesse of surenam , is very positive , and in another lesse material particular , even to the noticing of pictures and meddals : but the truth is , there are no wrongs , that we could alledge ; all our old pretensions , though in this declaration , several times remembred , were buried in oblivion , by an expresse article of the last treatie ; and since that time , none have occurred : besids , it is so notour , that all the dutch their advantages , in point of trade , which we terme wrongs , do proceed directly , on their part , from their sobriety , and industry , and on england's part , from our idlenesse , and luxury , that men should be ashamed , by such groundlesse accusations , to discover their invidious murmurings : what further remains here , in matter of fact , the stats will , no doubt , fully cleare it : one thing i may adde , that , as the printed articles referred unto , do onely beare , that both parties were content , that commissioners on both sides , should meet , as soon , as might be , after the peace , for the regulating of commerce , and navigation , and do neither mention london , for the place , nor the east-indie trade , for the subject ; so it may easily be supposed , that for any other appointment , of this nature , that might have been made , the stats have either been alwayes , willing to keep , or were at present , able to excuse the delay , & ready to observe any new appointment , upon demand . from this his maj. goes on , to accuse them , of another breach , in the west-indies , about the restitution of surenam ; and truely , he is in this so expresse , and plaine , that as his passing from it , to more uncertain alleagances , and on these rather stating the present controversie , gives me a shreud suspicion ; so , the businesse consisting mostly in fact ; i intirely referre it , to the stats , their answer : who , i am sure , will thereto returne a direct , and undeniable contradiction . but it 's no wonder ( saith his maj. ) that they venture at these outrages upon our subjects , in remote parts ; when they dare be so bold , with our royall person , and the honour of this nation , so neer us as in their own countrey ( boorish animals , in the conceit of their popular soveraignity , forgetting the respect due to soveraignes ! ) and there almost every-where setting forth abusive pictures , and historical meddals , and pillars some of which , have been exposed , by command of the stats themselves even when we were united with them , in counsel , for the support , of the triple alliance i have been already , so full upon this objection , that here i need add nothing ; let the matter be thorrowly searched , and i am persvvaded it vvill be found far more disgracefull , in this unvvorthy , and impotent resentment , then , in all the malice of our adversaries ; & as this complexed quarrel , doth unquestionably resolve it self , either in the contemptible luxuriancy , of petulant witts , which the stats did never daigne to notice ; or the warrantable commemoration , of laudible atchivements , which they may very justly own ; so , certainly , the most noble redresse for the future were , manfully to remove the occasion , or at least despise the scorne , which our feminine weaknesse , hitherto , hath so plentifully furnished : and hence is it , that , although his majesty doth judge , that this alone , were cause sufficient of his displeasure , and his subjects resentment ; yet , not being ignorant of the advantages given , and knowing well , that englands glory , was of late , so highly advanced , under a sober and solid government , ( though both usurped , and odious ) as that the alterations , which now expose us to contempt , cannot be made any just ground for engageing us , into this war , he doth not rest upon it ; but ( saith he ) we are urged by neerer considerations , and the safety of our trade , the preservation of our subjects abroad , and the hollanders dareing to affront us , almost within our ports , are the things which move our just indignation , against them : and as to the first two grounds , though , his majesty doth adduce nothing , not before answered , to demurre my progresse ; yet , when i consider , the mortal repugnancy of war to trade , and safety , the sensible grievance , and retardment that the former hath already suffered , by the late stop , on the exchecquer , occasioned by our preparations , and the many other burdens , losses and distractions ; wherewith , war is necessarily attended ; i cannot enough admire , by what artifice , our present methods , can promote our designes : i reguard not justice , or injustice ; if even by killing , we could hope to possesse , it would in some measure , satisfie ; but in this event , the french , so manifestly present , as i am forced to say , that unlesse his majesty intend , as the plague doth , to encrease our trade , and riches , by diminishing the number of the proprietors , and minde our preservation , by hideing us , in the grave , and deepths , lest we should live to see our selves miserable , i see no other possible issue , of these his specious incitements : but , their dareing to effront his maj. is , the thing , we can least digest : the right of the flage , was one of the first prerogatives , of our royal antcestors , and ought to be the last , from which , this kingdome , should ever depart ; it was never questioned , & it was expressely acknowledged , in the treatie at breda , and yet , this last summer , it was not onely violated , by their commands at sea , and that violation afterward justified at the hague , but it was also represented , by them , in most courts , as ridiculous for us , to demand : although , i have said so much already , on this subject , as is sufficient , to free the dutch from all breach of treaty , and more then enough , to make it evident , to sober impartiality , that the offence is rather fansied , and imaginary , on the part of the complainer , then really given , by the party complained of ; yet , since his majesty will needs fill the world , with a noise , about this nothing , that the cry of the injustice of the war , may not be heard , and will by the force of imagination , magnify it , to the height , and quality , of such an insufferable injury , as if it alone ( if not expiat with the blood of the offender ) were more then sufficient , to drive him to the sad and inevitable necessity , of covering the ocean with ships , to the emptying of the nations treasure , & dying the sea with the blood of his subjects , to wipe off the staine of this affront ; i am necessitat to take up ballance again , and weigh the just import of this provocation : nor doe i preoccupy the judgment of any , if i premitt this , to what upon the most accurat , and impartial search , i have found , that , whosoever weighs this deed , in the ballance of sound reason , must be forced to say , that nothing save implacabile malice , could have seduced any , to have laid it , in whole , or in part , as a foundation , on which , the weight of such a war , was to be laid : if any judge otherwise , let him , for satisfying himself , consider these things : first , that , whatever past in this rancountre , betwixt his majesties pleasure-boat , and the dutch fleet , was so far from being done almost within his majesties ports ( as is affirmed ) that , it was not within the brittish seas , the place , to which alone , the treaty tieth expressely , the dutch , to this formality of striking to our men of war ; for , at this time , the dutch fleet , were riding at anchor , upon their own coast , which never yet was , nor can be called , the brittish seas : where now is there ground for accusation , let be revenge ? hence secondly , though our court , would represent the dutch , to the world , as such morose clownes , who deserve to have their head cut off , for not capping to a pitieful picture of a man of war ; yet i am almost surprised , at the generous excesse of civility , which appeared in the obliging carriage , of that gallant gentleman , mijn heer van ghent , who not onely saluted the english lady , whom he knew to be aboard that boat , with a volley of great guns , but went also aboard , to complement her ; so that it might well be questioned , whether , he being a person of such trust and command , they had greater cause of quarrelling him , at the hague , for having done too much , or complaining of him at whitehal , for having done too little ? what english man , may not blush , to think , that the dutch , are not onely like to carry away the trade from us , by their industry and sobriety , but to outstrip our courteours also , in courtship and civility ? will we in our fretfulnesse , needs pick quarrels , where humanity would prompt and instigat us , to the revenge of gratitude ? and this leads me to a third viz. that the world may rather wonder , that the king of england , did not expresse his gratitude to the dutch , for being at so vast a charge , as to equippe , and put to sea , a fleet , sufficient to guard , against any attempts from the french , ( he being by the triple alliance , equally engaged with them , to have prepared , and put forth , in order to that defence , a considerable number of men of war ) then , thus without cause , to quarrel , and meditat revenge : must the dutch have no other thanks , for bearing the burden alone , without putting us to bear our proportion ; shall they have no other interest but blowes , for having laid out such vast summes , without urging us , to doe , what in honour we could not deny to be duety ? is it not matter of blushing , that his majesty , should so expose himself , together with the nation , to the upbraidings , of a sober people , and the world 's just censure of high ingratitude . but why do insist ? though his majesty with a great pomp , and parad of words , would precipitat the world , into the beliefe of his being , in this particular , injured by the dutch , adhibiting the utmost of artifice , to give it , the appearance of an injury , i hope , upon the consideration of what formerly was said , and is now adduced , i may assert , without all hesitaton , that his majesties right of the flage , as acknowledged , in the treaty , hath neither been questioned , nor violated by the dutch , far lesse represented , in the manner mentioned : all the bussinesse is , that one of his majesties pleasure-boats , passing through the dutch fleet , lying at anchor , upon their own coast , had not that honour payd to her , which the dutch , are onely obliged , to render , to his majesties men of war , in the brittish seas : which account if it be indeed so true , and unanswerable , as to have moved neighbouring courts , to laugh at the peevishnesse , of our offence , and doth novv amaze the vvorld at the rage and violence , whereunto it hath transported us , are the dutch therefore to be accused ? no , no , his majesty himself judgeth otherwise , and therefore , he subjoins , an ungrateful insolence , that they should contend with us , about the dominion of the seas , who even in the reigne of our royal father , thought it , an obligation , to be permitted to fish in them , by taking of licenses , and for a tribut : and here lyes the great discovery , the right of the flage is all , that is drectly pretended ; but , dominion of the narrow seas , under the colour of a sophistical equipollency , is the thing mainely intended : i shall not repeat what i have above adduced , for distinguishing , this prerogative , from the dominion aimed at , and explicating this whole matter ; but as his majesties covert insinuation , doth aboundantly verify , even his own diffidence , of his absurd and insupportable claime ; so , if we go about , thus to renverse nature , and subvert humane liberty , the dutch are the first ; but neither the greatest , nor the last enemy , which we are to apprehend : as to the license to fish , here instanced ; since i cannot set down what is truth , in matter of fact , considering the confidence , wherewith it is asserted , without a reflexion , which i by choice forbeare , i leave that to the stats their vindication : but , suppose it had been sought , and graunted , within that space of distance , from our coast , which the positive law of nations , and consent of mankinde , hath in a manner every where appropriat , to the countreyes respectively adjacent , it signifieth nothing to his majestie 's purpose : what is then the dutch their ingratitude , and insolence , that provoks his majesty , to an exclamation ? let all men judge : it 's said , they owe their being and wealth to our protection and valour : but , as all the world knowes , that , as interest is the loadstone of policy , and policy the onely director of state transactions ; so , i think , i need not amuse my self , to shew , either , how that the english in former times , did not supererogat , in any higher degree of charity , toward the dutch , above the perswasion of their own advantage , or that in all probability , the dutch would be yet more ready to repay us , if we should be reduced to the same distresse , and circumstances , which is gratitud's just retribution . to these things , his majesty addes , that , notwithstanding all these provocations , he patiently expected satisfaction , not being willing to expose the peace of christendome , for his own particular resentments , whilst , the tutch ceased not , to provoke the most christian king ( though a small elogy , yet an unbecoming title , from the faith's defender ) against us , of which , they thought , themselves so secure , that for above a twelvemonth , their ministers , have here threatned us with it : now , for the commendation which his majesty affects , i remit it unto the impartial judgement of the same provocations , and patience , whence he would derive it ; but as to what ensues , are we so vaine of , and intoxicat with , our french , or most christian alliance , that we have lost our senses ? or hath the world seen with their eyes , for above these two yeers , the french and dutch in hostile preparations , and mutual defiance ? and on the other hand , the french and english , in continual complements , and embraces , and yet , are they all deluded ? and the stats the most dull sots , or empty politicians imaginable ? if ingenuity would permit , i sometime incline to think , that it must be the dutch representations at our court , of the danger of discord , and the advantage which the french may thereby gain , that is here so strangely misconstrued , and abused ; but why should i straine ? i beleeve verily , the words are like their author , wholly unaccountable the next passage telleth us , of his majesties last ambassadour , and how to his pressing memorials , he could receive no answer , untill he had declared his revocation , and then , they offered a paper to this effect , that in this conjuncture , they would condescend to strike , if we would assist them against the french ; but upon condition , it should be no precedent , in their prejudice : and as to this embassie , though i might easily bring to minde , the difference , about the method of proposals , the ambassadour tabling onely his demand about the flage , and the stats upon the rational consideration , of the then appearances , desireous to hear all , that he had to require , before they would give answer , and thence excuse , the stats their delay ; and though i could also exhibit , such an account of the paper of return , as might aboundantly cleare , that , as the dutch , did onely qualify their offer , of a new engagement to strike ( which they had all reason to do , having , as it 's like they will , in it's season , make manifest , stretched their condescension , the more to fixe if possible , the king of england to a stedfastnesse beyond what could have been wrung from the termes of that treaty at breda ) with the condition of our reciprocal performance , of the alliance , so it was this novel sea dominion , and not the formality of striking , against which , they did precaution , for the future ; yet , it being a matter of pure fact , i chuse rather to leave it , to the stats their proper vindication , then further to dive in it . in the last place , his majesty , telleth us , that , the dutch did lately send an extraordinary ambassadour , to him , who in a most extraordinary manner , hath given him to understand , that he can offer no satisfaction , until he have sent back to his masters : but seing the surprize of his majesties late hostile attacque of the dutch merchants , before any intimation of war , and just when this their ambassadour , was making ready , to expose his offers , was in effect such , as might have made him , not onely to stop a commencing , but to break off , a very far advanced treaty , is it not strange , to see , a great prince , shut up his declaration , emitted for publick satisfaction , with so little reguard to all mens knowledge , and apprehensions , and as it would seem for the pedantick affectation of a running repetition , scorn the world , with a dissimulation that hath no pretext ? but i know the stats are in case , to give such a reply , and to cleare up all those matters of fact , alledged by him , to justify his present engagement , ( and represented to all men , as such insolencies , and injurious effronts , which have constrained him , over the belly of his own inclination , to engage in this war ) that will be so plain , and perfect a contradiction , to all his pretended reasons , as will not onely prove , that there was never a more just defensive war on their part , nor unrighteous invasion upon his , but by a naked representation of truth will amaze the world , at the confidence , where with these things are asserted , and put it with all sober persons , beyond debate , that their is a mistery of iniquity , lurking at the bottome , and masked under these pretenses . these being his majesties reasons for our war , that they do nothing relieve his resolution , of that verdict i have given upon them , specialy , in respect of their contrariety to righteousnesse , & religion , is undeniably manifest ; but because his intentions as to the latter may now be more clearly observed , in that second declaration of indulgence , above mentioned , i shall in like manner shortly peruse it . and that his majesty , in the remembrance , of the rigours and persecutions , wherewith the sober and godly . in his dominions , have hitherto been sore vexed , may not onely in time be admonished , to feare the inconveniencies , which may thence necessarily arise , and provide a remedy , by a fair indulgence , but also , in the serious conviction of the evil of his wayes , and just apprehensions of divine wrath , thorowly converted , to breake of his sins by righteousnesse , and his iniquities by shewing mercy to the oppressed , is certainly , not more the desire of all his faithful subjects , then it would infallibly prove , the lengthening of his tranquillity : but , seing in place of any thing of this nature , the declaration under our hand , hath quit another tendency , and both from the intimation of all circumstances , sufficiently laid out in my first discourse , and from it's whole composure appeares , to be nothing else , then a cunning device , to secure his majesty , from the dislike of good men in this sinful combination , against the protestant interest abroad , and in the mean time , to foment and promote the popish party and cause at home , until , that , in the righteous judgment of god , if we foresee it not , truth should again be benighted , by the darknesse of popish superstition , and all it's lovers , exposed to that tyranny , the most pernicious poison of ease , which we have here presented , under the no lesse plausible tentation of the gospel's liberty , doth without question , so much the rather oblige all concerned , to a more intent , and accurat disquisition : which , that i may the better performe , it is in the first place to be noted , that , albeit the conception of this paper , doth generally include all sorts , of non-conformists , and recusants , and that the liberty therein graunted to popish recusants , seems to be much more restricted ; yet , if we may subject his majesties inclinations ( or rather plain intimations ) to the judgement of reason , all appearances do evince , that , whereas to protestants , they are the meer constraints of policy , unto papists they are indeed the spontaneous motions , of a propense favour ; for , seing our present engagement against the dutch , the nature of an indulgence , an involuntary dispense against standing lawes , and his majesties plain profession , do obviously hold forth , that the license , is in effect , extorted , by extrinsick pressures , it 's extension unto the popish party , who thereunto do adde no moment , doth aboundantly argue it , in this reguard , to be an act of free choise : i need not here remember , how much , this hath alwayes been his majesties byasse , what cherishing connivance , papists have quietly enjoyed , to the great increase of their numbers , and insolence , since the yeer whilst other non-conformists , have been tossed , with continual vexations ; it hath not been the least ingredient in the bitternesse of these grieveances ; neither are there many yeers , since he emitted , in their favour a proclamation , of such ample grace , that even his present most obsequious parliament , did , by an unanimous addresse , interpose for it's revocation ; so , that , things being evenly weighed , viz. his majesties unsatisfiable displeasure at , and causelesse jealousy of , the protestant non-conformists , with his constant good opinion , and affection , witnessed to those of the roman communion , his present groundlesse wars against the protestant stars , and sinful , and foolish conjunction with the french , not more regrated by the better sort , then rejoyced in , by the other , the comprehending of all in the same indulgence , may , not onely perswade the inequality of favour by me remarked , but further very rationally induce , to beleeve , that the more apparent latitude , conceded to protestan : dissenters , is , onely the better to cover , the real advancement of the popish interest , the principal designe of this contriveance , and therefore in conformity to these grounds , if my reflexions shall be also different , seeming to straiten on the one hand , and to enlarge on the other , discovering the protestant to be onely tempted , and snared , and the papist favoured , and honoured , i hope , the palpable agreement of this procedoure , to his majesties own intentions , will easily defend me , from the censure of malice or calumny , for preface then , his majesty with the fame truth and confidence , wherewith we have heard him assert , his zeal for quiet in his declaration of war , commenceth this his indulgence against the truth , by telling us , that his care and endeavours , for the preservation of the rights , and interests of the church , hath been sufficiently manifested to the world , by the whole course of his government : o unhappy care , that hath wrought such dismal alterations ! the true rights , and interests of the church of god , are , the purity of his worship , and ordinances , the protection of his ministers , & the advancement of true godlinesse : now , that in exchange , for any measure of these blessings ; which , we formerly enjoyed , since his majesties return , we have onely seen , god's worship corrupted , into vaine imposed formalities , and the vilest of the people , made priests , in their place , and wickednesse exalted , by the most avouched perjury , & profanity , that ever was known amongst men , is a truth , under the sense whereof , every serious soul doth groan ; but in effect , his majesty hath been , and is still , so entirely bended , to advance against the lord , proud supremacy , and set up in the church , a wicked prelacy , a debauched elergy , and superstitious liturgy , thereby to moddel , and subject , all the concerns of religion , to his own lusts , and humours , as i am confident , that all the lovers of truth , in lieu of being abused , by this pretended care , will onely reguard it , as a seasonable warning , to take the more diligent heed , to the snare that may be , and is couched , in all it's proposals : thus , for a demonstration , he subjoins , the frequent coercions he hath used , upon dissenters , and for composing differences , in matters of religion : and whether this be more concludent on his majesty's , or on my behalfe , i leave it to the impartial discerner : however , we may well observe , that since his majesty , even in his gracious humour , thinks his care of the church , principally commendable , by his former severities , which after the manner of the primitive persecutions , are at present onely intermitted , from feare , and policy , when these restraints are over , we cannot but expect , that he will resume his wonted methods , and that , with all the irritation , wherewith his inward fretting at a forced liberty , may probably impresse him : but ( saith he ) it being evident , that there is very little fruit of these forcible courses ( a fair conviction , if well followed ) we think our selves obliged to make use of our supremacy : and truely if he were seriously minding reformation , and thereto applying his royal power , which can never be more properly , nor gloriously imployed , we should the lesse scruple , the error , though he should mistakingly ascribe , the extraordinary call of the present pressing exigence , to the warrant , of a pretended perpetual prerogative : but , seing we may here manifestly perceive , that , that power , which at first , did onely acclaime the clergies civil dependence , and then after , becoming vaine of the reformation , wherein it was honoured , did excresce , & exceede to the ordering of church-rites , & goverment , under the notion of externals , doth at present presume to license , and authorise , all rome's superstition ; do we not discover , the wickednesse of that usurpation , which pretends , to as absolute a dispose , in matters of religion , as was ever arrogat , over worldly propriety ? thus wee see the scepter wristed out of the hand of his christ , and swayed in a perfect opposition to him , & designed subserviency to his grand enemy the anti-christ , which as it ought to make our eye affect our heart , while we see that scripture fulfilled in our eyes , that the kings of the earth , shall give their power unto the beast , and make war with the lamb ; so it concerns his majesty , while he invadeth the mediators scepter , to remember , that he hath also a rod of iron in his hand , to secure his scepter and avenge himself of such , as do not strike to him , in recognisance of his absolute supremacy . in the next place , his majesty addeth his motives , viz. that he issues out this declaration , aswel for the quieting of the minds , of his good subjects , in these points , inviteing of strangers , in this conjunsture , and the encouragement of all , to follow their callings , as also , for preventing the danger of seditious conventicles . blessed is the man , whose minde is staid , trusting in the lord , for there is nothing here sincere , what quietnesse , from such a self-destroying assurance ? i do not mention it's mutability , though all men know , that the first meeting of the parliament , would remonstrat all this grace to nothing , but , vvhen to the establishing of ever jealous , and persecuting prelacy , the licensing of pernicious plotting popery is adjoyned , certainly , if we be lulled asleep , with such a charme , we deserve , the sleep of death , which , it 's poison menaces : as for the inviting of strangers , french caterpillars we may indeed expect , and swarmes of romish locusts ; but to others , who might have found some allurement in this liberty , hovv much is it to be feared , that our violence shall prove more disgustful then the motive attractive : and as for trades encouragement , can any man be so infatuat , as to beleeve , that , that vvhich in it's onely season of peace , could never have vveight , should novv be truely minded , by such , vvho have so little cared to involve us , in the confusions , and burdens of vvar ? what a golden indulgence must it be , that vvill yet erect our trade , under all these pressures ? but , his majesty doth indeed fear seditious conventicles , and may be something worse , nam mala mens , malus animus : and although i neither knovv , nor designe to increase his grounds ; yet , in my affectionat desire for his vvelfare , i earnestly vvish , he vvould remember , that in all ages , a prince , his ovvn inconstancy , and oppression , have proved his greatest adversaries , & are most to be feared , and that they are indeed so fatal and funest , that neither force , nor policy could ever yet vvard of their mischiefe , for he is above them vvho gives the blovv . but i have too long retarded his majesties benevolence , vvhich in the first place declares his expresse resolution , meaning and intent , to be ( so that we may blame our selves if vve be mistaken ) that , the church of england be preserved entire in its doctrine , discipline and goverment , as now it stands established by law , and that this be taken , to be , as it is , the basis , rule , and standart ( vvhat place he assignes to the scriptures of truth i knovv not ) of the general , and publick worship of god , and further , that the conformable clergy , enjoy their revenues , and that no person , be capable of any benefice , who is not exactly conformable : i need not enlarge , upon the import of this passage ; what the church of england here meant , is , and hath done , wee all know , if any man think , that these roots of bitternesse , prelacy , and superstition remaining , they will not again spring up , into all that persecution , vvhereof some may novv fancy themselves to be discharged , he is but ill acquainted , either with their nature , or practises : he who desireth to be informed , may consult experience , which will aboundantly satisfy , hovv much better , and more free accommodations , have , thereby been disturbed , and frustrat : hovvever , there is one part of this royal resolution , vvhich i cordially close vvith if candidly meant , and that is , that , the doctrine of this church , may be effectually preserved , i may not here stay , to explain my reasons ; but , he vvho shall be pleased , to peruse our old homilies , and compare them , vvith that doctrine , vvhich doth novv very much boast itself , both in pulpit , and print , he vvill quickly understand , our former profession , to be so sadly depraved , vvith socinian , popish , and arminian errors , that , this alone , vvere enough , to bring upon us , all our feares : as for the exclusion of all persons , not exactly comformable , from benefices , although it be without doubt a mighty diminution of the favour of a just indulgence , since it depriveth both of the encouragement and conveniency due , to the ministers of the gospel ; yet the master of these labourers , having pledged his alsufficiency for their supply , and the church of god having alvvayes , been truely richest when poorest , i confesse , it is a matter whereon i shall not spend my complaints , however it be just matter of his repentance . in the next place ( saith his majesty ) wee do declare our will that the execution of all manner of penal lawes , in matters ecclesiastical , against whatsoever sort of non-conformists , or recusants , be immediatly suspended , and they are hereby suspended , &c. and this is the great jubile , a proclaimed liberty , to atheists , socinians , papists , jesuits , seminary priests , arminians , sects of all sorts , and the grossest hereticks , to contemne religion , commit idolatry , impugne truth , blaspheme , seduce , and destroy souls , uncontroulled : it 's true the conscientious non-conformist , hath also his part , in this exemption ; but , as god did send forth his gospel , into the world in weakenesse , and foolishnesse , destitut of all humane advantages , and onely , by his owne grace and presence , did sustaine , and advance it , against all the opposition , that the malice , or violence , potentats , authorities , or powers of the earth , could devise , or execute against it , to the effect , that neither our faith , nor his truth , should stand , in the help of man , but in the power of him , who hath promised , to be with us , unto the end of the world ; so , i am perswaded , that no man fearing and beleeving , the same lord god , will judge , all the favour that men can shew , valuable at this rate : i graunt , the excesse of this indulgence , doth not so corrupt the just relief , that tender consciences may finde in it , as , to hinder them , to partake lawfully of it's benefit ; but sure i am , if my censure be right and true , as certainly it is , men should be so far , from being deceived , by the flattery of carnal ease , either to embrace , or acknowledge it , as a favour , or pursue it , by any active compliance requisit for it's accomplishment , that on the contrairy , they should look upon the act in it self as a high provocation , against god , a feareful exposing , and opposing of his truth , and under the colour of a pitiful enlargement , and reliefe to tender consciences , a real and designed betraying , of the protestant interest . but his majesty proceeds to declare , that to the effect , there may be no pretense , for the continuing of conventicles , he shall from time to time , allow , a sufficient number of places , as they shall be desired , in all parts , for the use of non-conformists ; but for a correction , it is his expresse will , and pleasure , that none presume to meet , in any place , untill , such place , be allowed , and the teacher of that congregation approved , by him : and lest , any should apprehend difficulty , in obtaining , this allowance , and approbation , he further declareth , that the same shall extend , to all sorts of non-conformists , except popish-recusants , to whom , he will in no wayes , allow publick places , but onely indulge them , as to the common exemption , from penal lawes , and the exercise of their worship , in their privat houses onely . this being the summe of his majesties concession , over and above , the release of penal staruts , it were as ill nature , and worse manners , to offer to criticize upon my princes bounty , as it were folly , to be fain of nothing : and therefore , i shall onely , candidly represent , such things , as do obviously occurre , and cannot be hid : and , . it is evident , that there is nothing as yet graunted , but onely a purpose declared , which being in it self alterable , and in the present case , in order to the innocent non-conformist assuredly elicit , by our forraigne wars , and domestick feares , of what endurance it is like to prove , may easily be resolved : secondly , it is obvious , that the effect of this indulgence , is presently to cut of from , and deprive all the faithful ministers , and people , of the benefit of meeting , either in the places where they have hitherto met , or in their privat houses , for the pure worship of god , ( for these are the expresse words of the declaration ; to the effect , there may be no continuing of conventicles , &c. and afterwards , it is our expresse will and pleasure that none presume to meet in any place , &c. ) until these meetings , be cast in this new mould , and , if the truely tender and conscientious non-conformist's , dare not for the feare of god foresake , the assembling of themselves together , nor discontinue their meeting , for worship , till the court be at leisure , or think it convenient , to make that assignement , or if they should scruple this conveyance , as no doubt , a faithful minister , will be far , from an active compliance , with such an enacted abomination , then , such have nothing to expect , but the utmost of severity ; and thus wee see , these bowels , and the tender mercies of this declaration , are unmasked cruelty : thirdly , the places are to be desired of and first allowed by his majesty , and , that this allowance , may be lawfully sought , upon the grounds of that duety of protection , and assistance , which his majesty oweth to the gospel , without pleading this dissolute indulgence , i make it no queston : but , on the other hand , that this , first , maketh all still depend upon his absolute pleasure , both as to number and continuance , is no lesse evident : yea secondly , this very thing , is enough , to make the whole insignificant : for , many , especialy those non-conformists , who are persons of estate , or quality , will be unwilling to be thus exposed to the view of the court , as a dissentient party , reachable by law , and moreover , the people , perceiving the increase of popery , and what countenance and encouragemenr , they have from authority , whereby they are become insolent , and terrible to the people , may begin , to be jealous , that this course is onely taken , to the end they may when met together , the more easily be swallovved up at once , by those popish cannibals ; the things vvhich are past , and the things vvhich are dayly practised , may creat a shrewd suspicion amongst the people , of such a designe , upon which considerations , the assignement of a place by the court , is very like , to affright men , from following ordinances , or frequenting worship in those places : but , fourthly , the teacher must also first be approved by his majesty ; and that all the liberty here promised , if it vvere ten times more , vvere too dearly purchased , by this surrender , every one that knovveth the sufficiency , and necessity of our lord 's mission , will easily acknowledge ; i graunt , that , every minister should presume , and be very sensible of his majesties approbation , & as it were rudenesse professedly to undervalue it , so the power that he hath , over our bodies , may in many cases render it absolutely necessary ; but , what is all this , to the previous expresse approbation , here required ? certainly , if our lord's authority , be a minister's compleat warrant , and the duety it layes on , such , as may in many cases oblige him , to beare his master's name , before kings and princes , for a testimony against them ; the subjection of the ministry , that the compliance with this condition , doth import , is , a manifest impingement , against both : i might in the fifth place observe , the extension of this concession , every whit as large , as the foregoing exemption , except in order to papists , and whereby all the blasphemies , and extravagancies of all other errors , are , not onely tollerat , but offered to be encouraged , but the thing being so obvious , it were superfluous , to offer , to make it more plain . sixtly , this indulgence is thus further restricted , and cautioned . if any shall ( saith his majesty ) presume to abuse this liberty and shall preach seditiously or to the derogation of the doctrine , discipline or government of the established church , &c. wee do hereby givs them warning and declare we will proceed against them with all imaginable severity . i shall not stand to observe , how there is more here , then an insinuation , that the preacher , in order to his being approved by his majesty , must previously engage to this forebearance : it s but all reason , that he who giveth the commission , should also give the instructions , set bounds , and limits , to it 's excercise , and define the sphere of it's activity , according as his majesty , ( that the world may the better understand , the just extent , and native import , of that headship , vvhich he arrogats over the church of england ) in his letter to the arch bishop of york , prescribeth , what doctrines are to be taught , what not : if we will be preachers created by the court , and emissaries of this supremacy , we must be court-parasits and court-pleasers too ; but , then let us remember , that wee cease to be the servants of jesus christ : but the thing i mainly marke here , is , that by this artifice , they are sure , either to make the indulged betray the cause of christ , by an unfaithful silence , or expose themselves to what the all of that imaginable severity , wherewith they are menaced , will amount unto : it 's true , the same politick considerations , which have moved them , for quieting of the minds of the people , to mock them , with this shadow , maytye them up also , for a season , from executing , this all imaginable severity against such , who will be found guilty , of abusing this favour ; yet , considering , how the places must be all of publick appointment , the preachers and people also known , and that those places must be patent , and free to all persons , viz. amongst the rest , to a knot of informers , who will no doubt be designed , for each place , faithful men , who will acquit themselves , as the ambassadours of jesus christ , and so carry , in the exercise of their ministry , as they may have , their master's approbation , of wel done good and faithful servants , may exspect , as the court is at leisure , and have freed their hands of other work , that they will make such then , after they have sleeped under the deceitful shadow of this indulgence , while the court being liberat from feare of any trouble from them , was concurring with those who were destroying the protestant interest abroad , buy this indulgence , at an after . reckoning , with the lose , if not of life , and liberty ; yet of estate ; for his may. will be judge , of what is seditious preaching , and praying , &c. hence , if a faithful minister , pray for the united provinces , now unjustly invaded , by a popish prince , that they may not be destroyed , and that he may not give up , the beloved of his soul , the reformed church there , into the hand of such an enemy , who would again turn these provinces , into a land of graven images , if also , he should disswade all who heare him from such a sinful conjunction , and regrat before the lord , as every faithful protestant hath cause , that english-men , professors of the same faith , should be employed , as instruments , to destroy the faith they ought to defend , and that our hands , should be made use of , to shed our brethrens blood , with whom , yea for whom , we should rather die , in the defence of the reformed religion , and if he should weep himself , and excit the people to weep , because his majesty is seduced , into this conspiracy , and abandoned to such pernicious counsels , and courses . as at this time , and in this juncture , to concurre with a popish party , against a protestant state , the now visible bulwark , of the reformed interest , not onely without any just provocation , on their part ; but contrary to all engagements and obligations on his : and moreover , if in stead of an unfaithful silence , a minister should seek , to deliver his own soul , by regrating , that his majesty , is not onely left , to break his covenant with the most high god , in reestablishing abjured prelacy , and superstition ; but also , in countenancing , and promoving of popery and idolatry ; which as no godly man , who considers the times , and what the israel of god ought to do , dare forebeare for himself ; so he dare not , though he should die , for doing so , forebeare , to perswade , beseech , and obtest , the people of the lord , to pray with all manner of prayer and supplication , that the great god , would appear , to confound the counsels and crush the undertakings , of all the men , and monarchs of this conspiracy , against his great interest , and precious people : if , i say , a minister of jesus christ , should preach , exhort , and pray to this purpose , would his majesty hold him innocent ? or forebeare to lay hold , on the first opportunity , of dealing with him , as a seditious person , yea a traitour ? and adjudge also all who had been his hearers , as guilty at least of misprison of treason ? the case is so cleare , as it discovers plainly , the whole of this indulgence , to be rather a court-trape , to catch , extinguish , and crush the faithful remnant , then the least ease , or reliefe , to such as dare not , for feare of the almighty , foresake the truth , and prostitut the precious ordinances , of christ , to the lust of an exotick lord , or dare not shut their eyes , and be silent , when they see courses taken , declarative , to conviction , of a formed designe , to establish the abomination of popery , and destroy the reformed religion , at home and abroad . the last thing , that remaineth , is , the exception of roman catholicks , from this allowance , of publick places ; but lest this should grieve them , the former discharge of penal lawes , is not onely repeated , in their favours ; but , they are further expressely , indulged , the excercise of their worship viz their idolatrous mass , and all their other impious superstitions , in their privat houses , and that without any limitation of number or other restriction : i cannot here stand , to expresse , all my just regrat ; the mass again restored in england , should no doubt be as much our deep affliction , as it is the papists exultation : as for their astriction to privat houses , i say first , why is not the like favour graunted , to the truly godly and conscientious-non-conformist , who may very justly scruple to sue for the favour of this indulgence , because of it's conveyance , and upon other momentuous enough considerations ? shall he who dare not for feare of making himself guilty , of lese majesty against jesus christ , by accepting a favour , which in its conveyance , establisheth , in the person of the indulger , a supremacy onely competent to the son of god , be lesse capable of this favour , then he who denys this supremacy , to be competent to his majesty , and holds it to be proper , to that child of perdition , the anti-christ ? yea , he is not so capable of our favour , as our catholick subjects are : i am sorry for it , but why ? what 's the matter ? his majesty gives you the reason , of the inequality of this distribution ; because forsooth , they are seditious conventicles , and therefore , liberty to worship god in privat houses , must not be permitted to them ; but their is no feare of sedit●on from papists , ( good men ! ) we understand one another better , then to feare any harme from such bosome friends : well , it may be so ; but , it 's time , when the popish party , are thus professedly , the darling of the court , and all it's conclusions , are so exactly calculat , to the meridian of that interest , for the poor protestants , to remember , the yet recent massacre of ireland , lest , brittain drink of the same cup , and become the stage , whereon , this same funest tragedy , or a more bloody one , be acted over again : secondly the papists are confined to privat houses ; that is to say , whitehal , st fames , somerset-house , and the greatest , and most capacious palaces in england , while , the poor non-conformists , may not make use of their own houses , and are not like in hast , to build upon the lubrick base of this indulgence , other houses : thirdly , that this restriction is no incumberance to the papists , is aboundantly cleare ; nay , if we advert , to man's strange curiosity , especially after error , the attraction of this privacy , may in all likelyhood , prove more advantagious to their interest , then , if their godlesse , and ridiculous mummery , were set up to open view , and derision , in publick churches : seing therefore , that the papists recommended by no necessary , or convenient reason have , ( notwithstanding of their grosse errors and superstitions , with the many important and ancient lawes that stand against them being considered ) obtained , the greatest benefit by this indulgence , whether the favour designed for them , be not it 's , principal motive , and aime , i leave it to every man's discerning ? now what our present conjunction with the french , in an unrighteous war , against the protestant stats abroad , with this licensing of idolatry , and encouraging the popish faction at home , may produce ; the lord in his mercy prevent : and as i have plainly laid out , the insincerity , insufficiency , and uncertainty of this indulgence , in behalfe of conscientious non conformists ; so , i am very hopeful , that neither the present allurement , of carnal ease , nor the deceitiul confidence , of simulat favours , shall ever make them abandon , that solicitous care , and zealous concerne , they ought alwayes to beare , in their hearts , and be ready to witnesse , when thereto called , for the glory of god , and interests of truth and righteousnesse , both at home and abroad . having thus particularly considered , and weighed the import , of both these his majestie 's declarations , and having found nothing in the one , which upon a sober search , may justify this war , ( whereinto we are precipitat ; nor in the other , that can quiet , or satisfy the truely conscientious non-conformist ; but on the contrair , much in both , which may fill the mind , of all the fearers of god , with terrour at the apprehensions , of what shall be , the dismal and dreadful consequences , of such an undertaking , against our confederats , and such uncandid dealing with god , i designed in this review to have subsisted . but yet i hope , every true-hearted english-man , will beare with me , if , while i see the interest of the english nation , dragged at the french heels , and sold to a base subserviency to their aspiring greatness , i take liberty once more , to evince and insist upon what in my first paper i touched more brieflly viz. the perfect opposition , which this conjunction with the french , hath , unto the welbeing and true interest of the nation : let it therefore be supposed , that the english fleet should beat the dutch , quit off the sea , and at the same time , the king of france with his numerous and potent army , assisted with his majestie 's thousands under the command of his son , should invade , destroy , lay wast , and make desolat , all the places of the united provinces , whereever he cometh , and the dutch by this defeat at sea , and invasion by land be brought , to such confusion and perplexity , that they shall neither be in case to set presently to sea again , nor able to encountre this potent enemy by land , ( which is the thing designed and desired , and that , to which all the vigorous endeavours of these confederat kings are directed ) well , let us make this supposition , that their designes are thus far accomplished ( though , graunt not o lord the desire of the wicked , further not their wicked device , least they exalt themselves , ought to be , and no question is , the desire of all , who love our lord jesus christ in sincerity through the earth ) and that the dutch in stead of being able to deal any longer or debate with these kings , by open force of armes , be reduced to the necessity in this exigent , of making the best , and most advantageous peace they can : is it to be imagined , they will betake themselves to the king of england , and come under his shadow and protection for shelter , from the french fury ? it 's true , amongst the rest of our fooleries , whereby we embolden our selves , in this engagement , this is laid down for one , which we judge will not fail us , viz. that we can alwayes make peace with the dutch , when we have driven them to desperat distresse , at pleasure ; but they are wiser men , then to court us any longer for kindenesse : for , first , the experience they have had of the impossibility of fixing us , or making us stand firme to our engagements , and treaties , will utterly alienat , discourage , and disswade from this , where there is a choice : secondly , his majestie 's having laid down this for a principle , and the endeavours which have been , to instil it in the minds of such , who could be impressed by court-suggestions , that , if england would floorish , holland must , if not utterly destroyed , yet be reduced to a state of slavery , and bondage , nothing inferiour unto the spanish yoke , ( for the dominion which we affect over the seas , would be stretched to a length , that would knovv no bounds , or limits , but our ovvn lust and our courteours avarice ; and what encouragement , they may have to come under the shadow of men of these principles , wise men may judge ? ) thirdly the cry of his majesties oppressed subjects at home , and the consideration , how the court hath sucked out and swallowed up the substance of the nation , and drained , all it's treasures , and yet are still lean ( for all they have devoured , hath onely made them more insatiable ) will make the dutch , judge very rationaly , unlesse they vvere able , to turn rocks , seas , and sand into gold , they could never by giving , satiat the appetit of the english court : and vvhile they see , contrair to all honour and true interest , how , a stop is at least put upon the exchecquer , which was the onely thing remaining , to preserve the credit of the nation , and leave merchants in some case to trade , they cannot but easily foresee that such will make no bones to suck out all the marrow , and then gnaw the bones , of these provinces : and to all these add , in the fourth place , how they must needs look upon the king of england , as the principal author , and unhappy instrument , of all these imminent and incumbent calamities , and may very rationaly conclude , if he had not in this juncture , conspired against them , with the french king , that either , the king of france , would not have undertaken the war , or if he had , that they in an ordinary providence , could have defended themselves , and their just liberties , against all his force : when i say , they must needs look upon the king of england , as the spring & source , of all that calamity they feel , or feare , and perceive his propensnesse , to ruinethem , and how that , contrary to all covenants , treaties , rational offers of satisfaction , even to pretended injuries , condescensions , & stretches beyond the just exigent , and tenor of any treaty , or transaction , yea & obligations heaped upon him , in advancing the prince of orange , ( which , as it was made the great argument , to determine those , who were a little reluctant , to consent to his advancement ; so , it made the most rational infallibly conclude , his assistance , upon that advancement , against the french attempts ) how , i say , that notwithstanding of all these bonds , of honour , interest , faith , religion , righteousnesse ; and obligations , he could not so much , as be gained , to an easy neutrality ; but , as if , the utter ruine of the dutch , and their extirpation , or reduction , from a stare of liberty , to a state of bondage , had the closest of connexions , with his satisfaction , he , to the prostituting of his honour , leads the way , to the french king , and as if malice and blinde fury , were the sole conducter in this affair , draweth the first sword , and forgetting to consult his own fame , with a pyratick violence , anterior to all intimation of war , falleth upon the dutch merchant-ships : as these things put together , with many more of the like nature , must make the dutch conclude him , the most enraged adversary , and implacable enemy ; so , it must of necessity , alienat their mind from him above all mortals : and now upon the forementioned supposition , ( which i hope shall never exist ) that they must put themselves under the potection of one of these two , they will certainly be ballanced , towards the french alliance , as the more placable enemy , the more sure , and advantagious friend : and as it is more then probable to wise men , that the king of france hath conduced the king of england , to such an unworthy breach of alliance , upon this very designe , to drive the dutch , if possible , to this sad necessity ; so it is equally obvious , how the french king endeavoureth by all means , so to influence the conclusions of the english cabal , & manage the advantage he hath thereby over the king of england , as may render him most hateful to the dutch : for having prevailed with him , first , to draw him to this shameful breach of treaty with them , he driveth him thereafter to make such a detastable attempt upon their merchant-ships ; and observing likewise how in his declaration for war against the dutch ( wherein also he will have the king of england to preceed , that he may know the better how to forme his so , as may best subserve his designe ) he alledgeth many injuries , and pretendeth to such a dominion over the seas , as is subversive of the liberty of the dutch , and utterly inconsistent with the prosperity of the provinces , because destructive of their trade ; he then emitteth his declaration of war , wherein there is nothing mentioned or adduced for a cause , save a french floorish , for his honour : yea he giveth the dutch to understand , that he doth not envy their greatness , nor designe the prejudice of their provinces ; nay on the contrair , that he hath a favour for them , and how all his quarrel is confined to some particular persons in the goverment , against whom he hath a displeasure : and perceiving withal , how the king of england hath not onely made himself the common detestation of the dutch , by this late act of manifest pyracy but as if no bonds , no treaties , neither reguard to his own reput or renown in the world , could be of sufficient weight and value to tye him up from doing them all the injuries , which his power maketh possible ; he addeth to the former violence , the injustice of seising upon and detaining all the merchant-ships , which were in his ports at the eruption of this war , expressely contrair to the termes of the art. of that treaty at breda : the french king ( i say ) perceiving this , that he may commend his fidelity , clemency , and friendship to the dutch ( as he doth his honour to the world ) above the king of england's , as he hath done no act of hostility against them anterior to his declaration ; so he graunteth them six moneths time , to remove all their merchant-ships and goods out of his dominions , without lose or molestation : by all which he seemeth to intimat to the dutch that he is neither so ingrained not implacable an enemy against them as the king of england , yea there is a tacit invitation couched , even in his denunciation of war , to accost him for kindenesse , with hope of acceptation , ( and well may he , for hereby he maks himself master of both , and doth more certainly triumph over the king of england , and ecclipse the glory of that nation , then over the dutch , and so hitteth the marke he aimed at indeed , viz. the french honour ) now as the preferablenesse of the french alliance , things standing thus , will be demonstrable to the dutch from their own interest , and advantage , for by this means , though , they may lose somewhat of their former lustre ; yet they will easily see , that it is the interest of the king of france , to have them a floorishing people , when they are so much his ; so , on the other hand , will any doubt , but all reason of state and policy , will make the french ready to listen to a proposal of accommodation from the stats , and abandon the english , as having now served himself sufficiently of them , when they have sweat out floods of english blood and treasure , to rowe his french majesty to his port : for , first , he knoweth very well , though he have at present debauched the penurious and profligat court of england , into this conjunction vvith him , against the dutch ; that , yet , the spirit of the english nation can never be debased into the same compliance , with his designes ; the prudent part , yea the generality of the nation , retaining still , their noble ascendent over the french , and that antipathy unto them , that , though the court party are sunk below men , and cease to be patriots , ( not careing for the reput , and honour of their nation , whose renown , together with their own fame , they have shipwrack't ) yet , at this very instant , they would , if at all necessitat to have a war , notwithstanding of all the artifice and endeavours of the court , to enflame them into a rage against the dutch , with much more cheerfulnesse , alacrity , and readinesse of minde , draw their sword against the french in defence of the dutch , then be dragged by the court , to so unrighteous , and dishonourable a war , against their friends and brethren : the certain knowledge i say , that the king of france hath , that this is the genius , and pulse of the english nation , to abhorre as death , the holding of the french stirrop ; yea , the rational grounds he may have , to perswade beyond debate , that if these very men , whom he hath charmed , by his aurum potabile , into an oblivion of their own honour and nation's interest , be once awaked out of this golden dreame , ( which doth not imply a contradiction but they may ) they will abandon , with a blush at their own basenesse , his interest , and by an after strenuous opposition , seek to wipe off the staine , of so base a compliance , and be avenged upon him for their two eyes , will make him ready , to close with the dutch , being , together with the world , convinced , that , he hath in this , obtained the utmost of advantage , he could have proposed or promised to himself , by engaging , or rather seducing the court of england , unto his assistance , and judging , as he hath reason , that he is hereby sufficiently repayed , for all the french millions , which that court , hath swallowed up : secondly , as this will make him readily listen , to a proposal from the dutch , so , it will make him willingly condescend , to give them easy , and honourable conditions , ( though i hope god shall prevent such a dishonour to them ) yea , he will argue himself , into a necessity , ( contrair to the particular insolent domineering humour of the french ) to maintain them , if not in the same degree of honour , liberty , and lustre , yet , in their full strength ; it being obvious , that by having engaged them to him , he hath fairely paved his way , to an easy conquest , of this part of the world : the spanish netherlands , will fall into his hands , nor will the emperour be able , to make head against him : spain also must follow their fate ; and poor england , having spent their strength and treasure , to advance him to this greatnesse , must bow their neck , to the french yoke : what is then become of our foolish supposition , that there was no cause for england to feare the french greatnesse ? why ? france ( saith the court ) having no nursery of sea-men , we will maintain our dominion of the seas , non will cope , or compet with us , if once we had the hollander , under hatches ; and while we retain our dominion by sea , it were ridiculous to feare , the french by land : but alas , have the french , so blinded the court , with the dust of their gold , that they cannot see , one inch , before their nose ? do they not easily foresee , the misery and bondage , they are bringing upon the nation , and how , they are selling the honour , and liberty of their countrey , to it 's inveterat enemies ? well , the french have not a nursery of sea-men , comparable to the english : be it so , but , when the english by their unrighteousnesse , folly , and inconsideration , have driven the dutch to the necessity of becoming one with the french , have they then no nursery ? england knoweth , to it 's cost , that holland hath : and if ever france be in case , to reckon them his ( which , as death , is to be deprecat ) then , the king of england must resolve henceforth , to quit all his pretensions to the flage , and be at a point in this , that his men of war must strike , to the french pleasure boats : the nation at home , must tremble , at the french greatnesse , their walls the shiping of england , will not then hold him out , he being now in case , to force his passage , thorow them : our forraigne plantations must signify as much to us , as the french and dutch in a conjunction , will permit , either something , or nothing : our honour , and renown , which we have had amongst other nations , must be buried in the gulfe of contempt , and lye expiring without hope of a recovery , under the french insolence : who will then compassionat the poor english nation ? nay , who will not say , that it is a righteous thing with god , since , we who would needs in a blind rage , run upon our friends to ruine them , without cause , should be insnared , in the worke of our own hands , and tumbled head-long in the ditch , which we had digged for others ? who amongst the nations will pity us ? or if our distresse should move compassion , who dare offer to help us ? oh poor england , how do thy rulers , post thee to thy ruine ? we have fallen once under the hand of the dutch , and our disgrace , hath accresced to their glory ; but now , we must fall , into the hand of the french , & instead of wearing the flowre de luce , in our scutcheon , the king of france must have our lyon , and vnicorne in his : and thus have we debased our selves and entailed bondage upon the posterity : and , if the dutch were a people given to revenge , what ever griefe and regrat , their dependance upon france might be to them , yet , they would not onely have this satisfaction , to see those enslaved , who had designed their bondage , and whose hands had been made use of in wreathing the yoke about their neck ; but , see themselves chiefly made use of , and maintained by the french , to force the english to serve him : and withal the dutch should see themselves , freed from the slavish feare of the king of england's vaine pretensions to the dominion of the sea , and set at liberty , to follow their trade without trouble ; and as the trade , would then be cerainly taken from england , in these parts ; so it would be at the french & dutch their option , whether to rase , and root out , name and thing of all english plantations abroad . though , these be things to be entertained in their possibility , by all the lovers , of religion , righteousnesse , and the nation , with horrour , and detestation , and i pray and hope shall never have any being , beyond what a supposition may give them ; yet , he must blind his eyes , and abandon his reason , who will deny the nativenesse of the connexion , betwixt the worst of all these supposed miseries , and mischiefs , and the king of england's engaging , in this war , with the french , against the dutch : the ruine of the protestant interest , this day , through the world : the ruine of the liberty , honour , trade , precious and deare concerns , of the english nation ; the ruine , of the prince of orange his interest , yea the ruine , disgrace , and perpetual infamy , of the actors themselves , is wraped up in , and connected with , this shamefull war : have we not now by our deep politicks , bravely bowled away the honour of the nation , vvhile the french , both give ground , and byasse ? these are our nevv unhappy politicks , they tend to this , and may end here , if the lord in mercy do not interpose , to prevent it : so , that , though men vvere turned meer gallio's , as to the interest of christ , and religion in the world , yea turned enemies thereto ; yet , no man representing things to himself as they are , and vveighing these tumultuous transactions , in the ballance of reason , or considering their obvious tendency and import ; if he retain the spirit of a true english-man , if he consult the honour of his nation , if he truely love his majesty , and wish the stability of his throne , but must , not onely look upon himself , as obliged to withdraw , from all concurrence in this war ; but interpose in his station , to deliver king and court , lapsed into this moral madnesse , from the occecation of this fury , whereby , in their indeliberation and rage , they are pulling ruine upon themselves and the nation , by drawing the sword . i know very well , in all i have said upon this head of interest , i shall , be looked upon as grossely mistaken in my hypothesis ; because , what i account interest and the thing to be chiefly reguarded , and earnestly contended for , hath not a being at all in the albe of our new politicks : nay , something is substitut in it's place , as inconsistent with , so natively destructive of it : and therefore all these disswasives deduced from the head of interest as i have stated it , must with the hypothesis evanish as of no consideration or weight , to disswade from our present enterprise . it will be readily graunted by all , that if the old interest of england , viz. the preservation of religion , in it's reformation , whereto by the good hand of our god upon us we had attained , the safety and good of the people , the ancient splendor and glory of the nation , the just freedome and liberty of parliaments , the desireable harmony betwixt his majesty and them , to the doing of all things ( especially things of such moment , as a war , wherein there is an association with an old enemy to the english nation and interest , and an engagement against our ancient friends , deprecating , with all the submissenesse which became a state , our displeasure , and entreating in a most obliging manner our covenanted assistance , against an enemy , by vvhom , if he conquer them , we are crushed , our posterity also & all our precious interests are exposed unto the danger of utter ruine ) with joint consent and mutual satisfaction , whereby the cheerful concurrence of all his majesty's subjects is assured , by which means also , he himself is beloved and honoured at home , feared and reguarded by the nations abroad , the security , satisfaction , trade & treasure of the nation , is ensured & promoted , &c. if interest be considered as comprehensive of , & constitut by these & the like ; then no doubt , it must be yeelded , that the considerations evincing the manifest opposition of the present engagement to all these , have a sufficiency of weight , to disswade from a further progresse in this unhappily begun war , yea perswade a retreat ; which were certainly a more glorious victory , because demonstrative to the world , that our lusts and passions had not the ascendent of our reason , then if our sword were bathed and our hands embrewed in the blood of these against whom it is now drawn and stretched out ; yea this were a more certain way , to a safe victory over them ( i mean an overcoming them with kindenesse to a cheerful condescendence unto , and a ready compliance with all our just demands ) then ever we can expect , as the issue of so unrighteous and irreligious a war. but if somewhat else be substitut in the place of that , which the vvisest have hitherto judged the interest of the nation , i must graunt , i have missed the marke at vvhich i aimed , and confesse , that my considerations are not apposite dissvvasives , from vvhat is novv driven . but vvhat can this be ? some may think the thing aimed at , vvhich with it's seeming desireablenesse hath dazeled us into this distraction , hath by our procedour so obviously discovered it self , that it can no longer escape observation : it 's plain his maj. aimeth at being absolute and designeth to rule the nation , independently from the advice of parliaments , which are now looked upon , rather as an encumberance to him , in the exercise of his royal goverment , and an ecclipse of that glory , which he judgeth competent for a prince , then any real support to his royal authority and greatnesse : in plain english , the french goverment is affected by our english court , which we suppose can never be sufficiently illustrious , while there must be such an unbecoming dependence upon parliaments , for pitiful subsidies and summes to be raised by their order , to maintain our royal grandure : this which hath been so insupportable a yoke , upon the neck of our royal ancestors , whereby they have been bound to the good behaviour , tyed up , restrained , yea often , to gratify their subjects humor , in order to the gaining their consent for a subsidy , have been necessitat , and compelled to crosse their own royal inclination , and commit a rape upon their pleasure ; this yoke , we say , must once for all be burst and broken , and this badge of limited soveraignity , be buried in the final discharge of such parliaments : the dispose of the treasure aswel as the militia of the nation , must be in our own hand , then , and not before , will we be in case , as becometh , to live in royal splendor , to give suteable rewards for signal services , without being obnoxious to have account asked of us , or the question put , how we spend our treasure ; to keep under and crush petulant insolents at home , and chastise proud enemies abroad : in a word , stat pro ratione voluntas in state affairs , as we have arrogat it , in church , matters ( which is the more wicked and most dareing attempt of the two ) is the great interest , and that which we will and must have : this is the darling and diana of the court , to which all the other true interests of the english nation must be sacrificed . if so , the scheme i graunt is changed : but is it credible , that infatuation itself , can fixe us in this resolution ? truely the universe of reason doth reclaime : the desperatnesse of such an enterprise hath made wise men shut their eyes , upon all probabilities of it's intendment , and stop their eares , at all reports and suggestions which were assertive of the court 's hatching such a cockatrice , as calumnies ; since reason did repugne and abhorre it , as the greatest deviation from it's conduct , and most desperat course , in the undertaker , imaginable ; but yet men cannot alwayes shut their eyes , he vvho stoppeth his eare at the reports of another , cannot with the same facility , abandon or give the defiance to his own reason . it is not necessar for my present purpose , to make a perfect enumeration of all things , which may perswade and put beyond debate , that this is the court aim ; but if it must needs be graunted , by what hath been said , that there is a cleare and undeniable opposition , betwixt engaging in this war with the french , against the dutch , and all the true interests of england , sacred and civil ; then our precipitation into this engagement , giveth a shrewd suspicion , that vve are onely prevailed vvith , and overcome by this consideration , to assist the french against the dutch ; that we as a requital , onely commensurable to that service , may have the french assistance , sor rasing the foundations of england's liberty , and substituting our ovvn lust , in the place of it's magna charta : this designe hath made all essayes for peace on the dutch their part insignificant , and hath persvvaded above all other considerations , unto this association vvith the french : and truely the things vvhich at first vvere onely groaned under , as acts of male-administration , vvithout the suspicion of a further designe , then vvhat the impetuousnesse of our lusts , cileing the eyes of our reason , drove us to , will novv vvhen reflected upon , and collated vvith present practices and future appearances , amase men at the maligne aspect they have upon england's liberty . i need not involve my self into the labyrinth , of recollecting all things in the court's procedour and practice , since his majesties return , unto this present day ; or compare them vvith this project , and consider the nativenesse of their tendency to the production of this monster . let his maj. carriage , in reference to his parliament be a little inquired into , and see , if it vvill not put the thing beyond debate . at his first entry ; the parliament which called him home , must be dissolved , and in lieu of another reward for that great service , they are dismissed with this complement , viz. his may ; will have them known and honoured to posterity , by the name , of , beati pacifici : well then , englands blessed parliaments have their period and exeunt , at his may : entry to his royal goverment : what then cometh next ? ( it 's fit to be silent , where experience speaketh that , which if it were told in it's most sober dresse , might argue the speaker to be prompted by malice ) but what could be the cause of this dissolution ? it 's obvious enough ; for whatever excesse of loyalty appeared in hastening home his majesty , and installing him in the goverment , without sufficient security for religion and liberty , ( an error in the first concoction ) yet there were many amongst them , who being good patriots , and worthy statsemen , could never have been overcome , to a compliance with such a designe , nor to the countenancing of our other extravagancies ; and therefore as an unfit tool for our work they must be laid aside , and a new one called . the court in the mean time perceiving , how vaine expectations of halcion-dayes , had besorted the nation , into a deep inconsideration of what did belong to it's peace and prosperity , and observing , how there were none now to peep or move the wing , against the court current ; but whatsoever the king did , either pleased all the people , or the more prudent were under a necessity in this universal distraction , to dissemble their displeasure , and suffer , without saying or doing any thing to the contrair , dangerous encroachments and breaches to be made upon their liberty , though the purport of these was manifest ; forgetting the old maxime obsta principiis , &c. the court i say perceiving this to be the temper , or rather giddinesse of the nation , do not stick at breach of priviledge , in the election of members for the following parliament , which was so palpable and grosse , as of the bulk , when gathered together , it might well have been said , that in stead of our old renowned parliaments without a parallel in the world , for free-spirited noble patriots , we had got a court-juncto , and the privileges of the peo-people , and interest of the nation , put in the hand of those , who would be prodigal & profuse , to a boundlessenesse , as of the estate and treasure of the kingdome , so of it 's more valuable liberty & precious concernes : now i shall be loath , to trace them in their wilde deviations and odd extravagancies ; but the nation must behold with the teare in their eye , ( & it may be , some of the instruments of their miserie , being cured of their former frenzy , & awaked out of their lethargy , by the cryes of the oppressed , & the noise of the ruine of the nation , in vvhose rubbish they themselves are like to be buried , as a recompence of vvhat they are guilty of , against the honour and interest of their countrey , sigh out their had we wist ) their liberties and estats in the hand of such , as resolve to run to all the excesses , to which the court-riot will drive them : there , is without more debat , a surrender of the militia to his may : and though they seem to retain the key of the nation 's treasure ; yet it is not so much to lock it up , and keep it in the possession of the just proprietors , as in effect so to squise the kingdome , as if the sole purpose of their convocation had been , to fall upon inventions and finde out middes , how to extract all the spirits of the nation , and leave it a caput mortuum , wherein they shewed themselves such masters of art , that no man can remember , how they drained the kingdome , to the drieing up of it's substance , and what vast summes were collected and extorted , vvithout judging the determination difficult , vvhither their monstruous folly in giving , or the court 's prodigious and incredible profusenesse , in lavishing out , vvasting and throvving avvay that treasure , be matter of most amasement ? hovvever , as this is sure , if england had been invaded by a forreigne enemy , they might at a lovver rate , have bought themselves into a state of liberty , from the conquerours bondage , then vvhat hath been exacted of them , for no other purpose , but to make their bonds strong ; so this is also certain , that if the summes collected for the court , vvere computed , and the total compared , vvith their present pinching penury , it vvould together vvith the nation , astonish the vvorld , hovv such a treasure , in so short time could have been dilapidat ; unlesse on purpose shoveled in the sea , or svvept avvay by an invisible curse : but the thing vvhich i mainly marke here , is , the connexion this carreer of parliament hath , vvith the advance of our projected absolutnesse : the nation finding themselves thus exacted upon , and betrayed to the court's avarice by the guardians of their liberty , do universally hate the parliament , as betrayers of their trust , & sacrificers of their interest , to an insatiable lust : thus , that vvhich used to be the darling of the people , is become the common detestation of the nation ; vvhich the court perceiving , and knovving hovv this did hasten their designe to it's maturity , having set them a going , keep them in motion : the generality being by these means grieved and vexed , some fevv , vvho shared the spoil , onely excepted ; and the more prudent and religious part of the nation , vvho could have digested vvith more patience , the losse of their estats , must , to complet their misery , finde themselves by these mischiefs , vvhich vvere framed into lavvs , deprived of purely dispensed ordinances , and robbed of their faithful ministers , reformation overturned , vaine abjured prelacy , vvith all it's concomitant plagues reintroduced , thousands of faithful ministers , driven in one day , from feeding the flocks of christ , they and their people exposed , to the implacable malice of the court , & debauched clergy , vvhereby the parliament drew upon themselves , as the enacters & decre'ers of such abominations and cruelties , the hatred of all the lovers of religion and righteousnesse : this being brought to passe , some court-trappans , are prompted , to deal vvith the fanaticks ( as they called them ) of several perswasions , some must passe for great friends to the presbiterians , others to the independents , &c. and the work of these is , to represent his majesty , as very propitious and favourable to men of tender consciences , and that what he did , was not so much from an innate propensenesse to persecut good men , as from a forced and necessitat compliance , with his more rigid and implacable parliament , from whom , unlesse he went alongs with them , in passing such acts as they were pleased to make , and give way at least to the execution of them , he could not expect that they would appeare zealous and foreward in the supply of his wants : yea , his majesty was represented as so reluctant to execut these severe laws with rigour , that he was in hasard , by an excesse of lenity , and indulgence , not onely to fall under a mistake with his parliament , prejudicial to his affairs ; but by the same means , to expose his own , and their authority to contempt ; and that these things might not appeare , what they were , indeed pure fictions ; some of the leading men of these parties , are admitted to kisse his majesties hand , and have something with a smile suggested to them , whereby they went avvay , giddy and intoxicat with vaine expectations . now it is , our good and gracious king , but our evil and cruel parliament : thus the sujects , in stead of being render , as of old , of parliaments , begin not onely to be little solicitous , what contempt the court cast upon them ; but can behold with satisfaction , these trampled upon , who had trode under foot the honour of the nation : now men begin to think and say , it were better for us , to be under , and beare with the infirmities of one king , who is placable and exorable , then under the maligne influence of such a conglobat constellation of tyrants , from the scorchings of whose rigours and rage , the shadow of our prince , even when he interposeth , is not a sufficient shelter . the court with much satisfaction observe these male-contents and murmurings , as exactly quadrating with their designe , and laugh amongst themselves , to see the poor people terrified and tremble , at the meeting together of our parliament , as of a company , who had conspired their ruine and bondage : well , after they have served the court , in pillaging the kingdome , and brought it to poverty ( which carrieth alongst withit , a basenesse and lownesse of spirit ) and have in a few yeers , squandred away and sucked out , for satiating the court , more of it's substance and treasure , then had been bestowed upon all the kings , which have reigned in england these hundred yeers ( beside the manifold miseries , which during this time , befel the nation , by pestilence , sword , fire , inundations , the decay of trade , &c. ) are not onely hated by the nation , as the vulture which hath torne out it's bowels , gnawed it's noble parts , and having ( by dishing up their countrey into a consume , for curing the court of it 's desperatly incurable leannesse ) turned the whole into a complete skeleton ; but also despised by the court , when they can set nothing before them , to satiat their appetit , but the drie bones of adistressed nation , drained of all it's marrow & moisture , are , without the peoples regret , prorogued with a frovvne . yet such vvas the knovvn penury of the court , as every one began to think , since the extremity of their vvant called for a present supply , that necessity vvould ( because they could not call them together before the time appointed ) force his may : to dissolve them , and emit vvrits for calling a nevv parliament , when , behold on a sudden , to the amasement of all men ( excepting such vvho vvere privy to the mystery ) there is a nevv prorogation , in all it's circumstances ( vvhich for brevity i passe ) so declarative of our designe , that the parliament it self , by vvhose means the nation vvas novv reduced to this miserable condition ; must at length avvake , and see themselves laid aside , as a broken vessel , vvherein , he vvho formed them , had no more pleasure ; and together vvith them , vve have a fairvvell to parliaments : in a vvord , our designe must at last set up it's head , and discover it self , things are come to their just maturity : novv vvise men see , that a vvar vvith the dutch , and a conjunction with the french , as the sole and proper expedient , to finish what is brought to such ripenesse , is inevitable : if the millions , for vvhich vve are become stipendiary to the king of france , vvill not serve the turn , we will both give the nation , a foretast of vvhat vve intend for them , by shutting the exchequer ; and vvhen parliaments can do no more , make a trial , vvhat the unaccustomed vveight of absolute soveraignity can squise from them ; and also furnish our selves , with a sufficiency , for carrying on our designe : if a project of absolute foveraignity be not fairly deduceable from these courses , and if his majesty be not engaged beyond a retreat to hold on , vvhen he hath run so great a length , as he knoweth even this parliament ( how much more a new one ) would declare against , condemne , seek how to redresse what is past , and effectually prevent such exorbitancies for the future , let wise men judge . but suppose the designe be , from these and many such things , demonstrable beyond denyal , do not the difficulties , yea moral impossibilities , which seem to lie in the way of it's accomplishment , perswade to a surcease , phohibit the attempt , and secure the nation from the feare of so fatal-like an enterprise ? sure , the funest consequences of windeing up soveraignity a pegge too highe , are too fresh and recent , to be quite foregotten ; and can these be remembred , without foreseing what is like to follovv upon our graspeing at , an every vvay absolute soveraignity ( little different from a turkish tyranny ) over a free-spirited people , generously emulous above all other kingdomes , of the glory of a free nation , vvhich hath been worthily contended for , and nobly maintained by our antcestors ? it can neither be hid from his majesty , nor the men of this contriveance , hovv this cannot be fixed upon and followed , without resolving , not onely to involve the nation once more in a bloody war ; but to delete and extinguish all true english-men , without leaving a man , who retaineth , as more valueable then his life the noble disposition of the nation , unpatient of tyrranny , because above slavery : yea , suppose the french king should , in lieu of our gallant souldiers now sent , or rather basely sold to support this tyranny , and subserve his further designes , after we had destroyed our ovvn subjects , send us over thousands of his french paisants , born under this yoke , to be a seed of bastard-english slaves , he is not sure but the nature of the soile and clime might change their quality : but laying aside the desperatnesse of this designe , and the considerations of the cruelties it would drive us to , before vve vvere so setled , that we vvere beyond feare of being shaken , doth nothing of danger to the contriver , appeare in the undertaking ? the men of this counsel , cannot be ignorant , that if a war be raised upon this head , it must end in the perfect and final overthrow of one of the parties ( and are they invulnerable ? ) especialy , considering , that the subjects are now made sensible , how vain it is any more to trust court-oaths , covenants , or any assurance of the like nature , which will , or can be given , and that not onely because of a practical breach of faith ; but because , it is become a court maxime , and a principle in our new politicks , that no oath , covenant , or promise , given by , or elicit from his maj. by his subjects , in a time of war betwixt them , bindeth him longer , then he is in case , with his own safety , to tell them , it was rebellion to require it , and to make them know , and finde he is able to break it ; yea it may be , to make all strong , and free him from the guilt of perjury for doing so , nulla fides cum haereticis , may be made use of in it's season . but these things seem to be digested with us , and as they have been of no weight or merit , to disswade from the contriveance ; so , if they should demurre us in the execution of our purpose , it would argue an irresolution , pusillanimity and lownesse of spirit , whereof we resolve not to be guilty : rubiconem trajecimus , jacta est alea , the stravving of our vvay vvith the dead bodies of such insolents , as dare mutter their dissatisfaction , or more manifesty seek to marre , or set themselves to oppose this glorious designe , of pure absolutenesse , is resolved upon , and if vve be necessitat to open our vvay vvith the sword , to this domination , vve are sufficiently provided , and in case for it ; so that on all accounts vve may promise our selves , either no opposition , or so vveak , as vvill rather encourage ( having thereby some colour of justice to cut off at once & for ever , such , vvho dare attempt to crosse our royal inclinations ) then , be able to advance their opposition , to a making of our enterprise difficult , let be desperat : what should dissvvade or divert , where there is nothing of resistance to be feared ? for first , the clergy of the nation having prostitut their conscience , to serve ourlust , that , without more bebate , our royal pleasure is to them the law , even in things sacred , and knowing their dependence upon us , in esse and operari , they will be so far from crossing our pleasure in civils , that we have ensured their assistance , in enslaving the nation ; and as they have benummed their conscience , into an acquiescence to our will , in the matters of god ; so we can easily command them , in despite of reason and religion , to palliat , whatever of rage may be in the prosecution of our designe , with some colour of either necessity or justice . as for the fanaticks , the division which julian the apostat endeavoured to creat and keep up amongst christians , ne unanimem timeret plebem , is , an easy work for us : their own mutual animosities , jealousies , diffidence and strivings , give us rather matter of encouragment , then feare : but besids , we have under colour of grace and favour , drawn off , some leading fanaticks , to accept of our pardon , whereby , as the multitude of their old followers , have not the same confidence , to communicat counsels with them , about creating us any disturbance ; so , the persons thus decoyed , have more reguard to their own safety ( knowing how easily we can novv reach them ) then either to speake , or suffer themselves to be spoke to , in these matters : and for the generality of the fanaticks , our late indulgence will so far attain it's end , as to charme them into a sopor , whereof we are put out of doubt , by these solemne acknowledgements , which have been made , and thanks vvhich have been given us , for such an expression of our royal bounty , and clemency ; ( poor dreamers ! ) & vvithal , for a perfect security , from the counter-vvorkings of the fevv more restlesse and implacable sort of fanaticks , vve have , by the ministrie of some of the same spirit and temper , ( for this very purpose , on our part , admitted to our favour ) made sure , that nothing shall be hatched amongst them , vvhich shall not be heard by us , so , as vve may crush it ere it can crawl out of it's shell ; seing the persons admitted to this grace , must maintain the credit they have got , by giving us notice , at least when enquired at , of all they knovv ; and as each of these ( being persons of different persvvasions , and because of their old and late grudgings and jarrings , easily emoulous of one another's court ) will endeavour , to recommend himself unto us , as most worthy of our favour , by striving , who shall bring over most of his party , professedly to accept of our pardon , when we are at leisure to give it ; so , they will be careful to commend , and make themselves considerable by their intelligence ; for which end , we not onely allow them to entertain their old familiarity , and known intimacy with their party ; but we maintain and keep them in case , to have each his instruments , by whom , he may be fully informed , of whatever passeth amongst his old associats : and the jealousy , that each of these two principal agents , hath , that either his court and credit with us , will fall lower , then the other's , if he mantain it not with an equality of service ; or that the other might , in order to the making of himself most considerable , reveal some things , not onely of his own party , that dependeth more directly upon him ; but of what were a doing or designing also , in the party , and amongst the intimats of the other , will make both very open hearted , in discovering the utmost of what they know : as this , i say , will be the procedour of these persons ; so the certain knowledge hereof , will create such distrust and diffidence amongst the more prudent of the fanaticks , as will cut of all communication of counsels upon this head ; since they will be jealous , that there may be , in the most select number , some , whose service in discovering what ever passeth , is ensured to either , or both of the tvvo , vvhom vvee vvould never daigne to see , if it vvere not , that with their eyes we might see into the bosomes of their fraternity . as for the ancient nobility and gentry of the nation , most of them being old or worne out , who would have counted it more honourable to have died in the quarrel , then to have survived the liberty of their countrey , which must be now swallowed up in our absolut soveraignity , and the few who remain , seing the disease desperat , are more like , in their despondency , to chuse , to sigh out the rest of their miserable dayes , in such a lot , as our absolutenesse will carve out for them ; then expose selves to certain ruin by appearing to oppose , when there is neither hope nor humane probability of putting a stop to this new setlement : and for the young nobility and gentry , can grapes be gathered off thistles ? we have not onely secured our selves from their opposition , but ensured their assistance : for care hath been taken , to traine them up , and habituat them , beyond a retreat , to all manner of lewdnesse and licentiousnesse of life ; so that morality , is the matter of their scorne , hatred and detestation , as high and unheard of flagitious practices , are the matter of their boasting : now can it be expected , that such who count it a glory to be delivered from the bonds ( or as they judge it the bondage ) of morality , will strugle for the liberty of their nation , and contend for the preservation of religion , especialy knowing , that if the nation were again , what it once was , they would either be constrained , to relinquish these wicked courses , to which they have devoted themselves ; or be looked upon , and carried towards , as the filth and offscouring ; of the generation , onely fit for the dunghill ? no , we are sure of these beyond hesitation : as our play-houses have been accademies for satan , wherein this young generation of gallants , have commenced his disciples , and mancipat their souls to his yoke , blessing themselves in this subjection , as true liberty ; so , they have laid aside and lost by the same means , all sense of true honour , vertue , and love for the prosperity & real privileges of their countrey . now giving and graunting , there are a considerable number of persons , neither tainted with vice , nor wholly laid aside by the former considerations , whom we can never gaine to a compliance with our designe : yet , we are sure they will not move nor dare to appeare , to prevent or oppose us , in the prosecution of our purpose : seing they know , that upon the least surmise or whispering of this nature , we would pretend a present necessity to go to armes , and they are not ignorant , how by our providence and foresight , for securing the successe of this undertaking , we have put our selves in a capacity , to sacrifice to the designe of our absolutenesse , the lives of all who will run the risck of opposing it . and this leadeth me to speake a little to the care that hath been had , and the courses which have been taken , to secure the end , before an open entry was made in the way leading to it : first , all places of trust and power , are put in the hands of such persons , as will by choice and obligation be true to our interest ; knowing , that we cannot succumb in the enterprise , but they must sink and be crushed with us : secondly , we are not onely sure of the assistance of all our loyal and faithful subjects , our bosome confidents , the roman catholicks , but as they are beyond beleef numerous , by the courses we have taken to encourage them ; so they are provided , and in such readinesse to rise , that vvith difficulty they are kept back ; and the assurance they have of our being true to our designation , viz defender of their faith , and to our ghostly father's interest , who signalised his son's fidelity , with this title , maketh them as intirely ours , as they know us to be theirs : thirdly , our new magazine at windsore castle , our faithful and loyal subject that irish papist , vvhom we have made real governour of the tower ( for sr. john robinson , is an insignificant nominal ; but the lesse significant , the better , when joined with a second , designed for sole significancy ) our new fort at gravesend ( built upon another pretense ) will all serve to keep the city , ( if it be thought fit to save it from being burnt the second time ) the head of all the insurrection , or trouble we feare , either quiet , or vve vvill be in case to liberat our selves of our feares , by cutting it off ; and to guard effectually , against a may be of a miscarriage in this enterprise , we have made sure the power of france , whereby we will be easily able , to over-power , what might prove too difficult for us , to overcome by our selves : the great predominant consideration , which hath contrair the perswasion of all the old interest of england , determined us to a conjunction with them , in this war against the dutch ; whose landing we have secured in our cheife cinque ports ; and now the mystery of plimouth fortification is unridled : their setting foot on english ground is made easy ? not onely , because they have our english fleet to convey them , and one of the chief strengths of england to receive them ; but under colour of guarding the coasts against our dutch enemies ; we have raised so many forces , as will serve to welcome our french friends , and they together , will give an opportunity for the rest , who are impatient of a delay , to draw to a head ; so that , what with the number of atheists and papists vve have already vvithin our selves , and vvhat by their daily encrease ( for vve expect a flovving in upon england , as a torrent , the scum of the popish vermine , out of all nations abroad , in ansvver to our invitation of strangers , especialy , seing , vvhat vve have hinted of liberty and protection to the popish religion , in that our declaration , vvill be very vvell understood by our sagacious friends abroad , as it is at home knovvn to be a plain declaration of our purpose , to setle popery , as the publick profession of the nation ; from vvhich , nothing hath hitherto vvithheld us , but vvant of power ) we are sure ( i say ) with these not onely to make our selves formidable , to all who would oppose us ; but also to be able , to cover almost in one day , the very face of the nation , and cut in peeces at once , all whom we suspect , to be guilty of an inclination contrair to our royal pleasure ; and vve are sure , the execution of our commands , shall be in the hand of such , who with a tygerish keenesse , vvill execute our vvill : what then can appeare able to stand in the vvay , or put us to a difficulty , in effectuating our purpose ? i knovv the more prudent in the nation , vvill readily apprehend , vvhen they consider , vvhat a vast treasure the court hath devoured , and hovv they have so habituat themselves to this prodigious profusenesse , as they may assoon cease to be , as cease to change their way ; and when withall they perceive , how , vvhile they are such , that all vvayes of satiating this boundlesse appetit are impossible ( for parliaments can do noe more ; yea this very parliament , if called together for that purpose , hovv probable is it that in stead of a nevv stretch to give more , not onely the disgraceful receiving of the french millions but the court 's medling with the treasure of the nation , and destroying it's trade and credit , by that stop , without a precedent , put upon the exchecquer , vvould be resented by them ) that the court is engaged and resolved to lay them aside , and usurp for the future , a pure absolutenesse : they have created to themselves this necessity : for it is not imaginable that a vvay novv can be found out , besids this desperat expedient , hovv both his majesties debts shall be payed , and the court maintained , as it hath been these yeers past ; ( though vvith much lesse lustre , then the illustrious courts of england , famous formerly through the world , for their magnificent plenty , sumptuous entertainment , and numerous retinue ; vvhen the revenue of the crovvn vvas scarce the halfe of vvhat it novv is : neither were these kings treasures empty ; so that the vastnesse of our present yeerly revenue , beyond what former kings had , with the incredible summes , which have , partly been given , partly exacted and squised from the people , the penury of the court , while it's bill of fare is abridged almost to a basenesse , make men stand agast and inquire at the wayes , how this treasure is spent ? whether it be hoorded up , as some suspect , or by the vvhirle-vvinde of an invisible curse svveeped avvay vvhich many beleeve ) if any remaine still obstinatly incredulous , notvvithstanding of vvhat is said to discover this to be the designe , and hovv , vvhat vve are novv doing , is , in order to the bringing of our purpose to passe , all the evil i wish him , is , that the court to vvhom he hath so much charity , do not cure him of this distemper , by destroying his ovvn , together vvith the nations interest . there is one thing vvhich maketh all that 's said , for convincing incredulity it self of this court designe , not onely passe for a groundlesse conjecture , but for the malicious product of some fantastick , & a bold forgery of a petulant male content viz. that suppose his maj. if he knew how handsomely to accomplish it , were passionatly desirous to lay aside parliaments ; yet considering what assistance he behoved to have , in dissolving that happy frame of government , under which the nation hath floorished so long , to the envy & terror of all it's enemies ; yet his maj. cannot but foresee , how that by making use of such a mean , in stead of attaining the proposed absolutenesse , the crown doth really fall from his head , and he precipitats himself into the ditch of a most base and abominable servitude : for since the instruments chiefly to be made use of , for carrying on this desperat designe , must be the roman catholicks at home and abroad ; their fidelity and assistance cannot be assured at a lower rate , or upon any other termes , then by setling the romish idolatry as the publick profession of the nation ; and if so , then his maj. in stead of an absolut soveraigne , becometh rom's tributary , holding his crown precariously of the pope : nor can his maj. be ignorant how he is not to expect , to be in the same condition of servitude with other popish princes ; england being more purely the popes patrimony then other kingdomes , peters pence must be payed in recognisance of his superiority , whereby king & kingdome is debased to hell : this one obvious consideration i say , hath made wise men ( though never the wiser for that ) judge it impossible , that ever the designe of absolutenesse , could transport his maj. into such a mistake , as to accomplish his end by this midds , there being so close and cleare a connexion betwixt turning the nation into a province , the prince into the pop's deputy or substitut , & setling of popery as the profession of the nation : it 's true all persons of understanding in the nation , did with surprise & amasement behold how papists were encouraged and countenanced , how their profession seemed to qualify them for places of trust , and commend them to our favour ; nay good men behold with grief and horrour , how the favours heaped upon the irish rebells did amount to the height , of more then an interpretative owning , of that horrid massacre in ireland , whereby the guilt of so much innocent blood is brought upon the throne , and his may. exposed also by this , to share , in all the wrath and vengance , which shall fall upon the head of of the shedders of that blood , as a return to the cry of the souls under the alter , from him who not onely maketh inquisition for blood , but in whose eyes the death of his saints , is so precious , that he engageth to give them blood to drink , who have shed their's ; yea it hath added astonishment to their horrour , to see popery so publickly professed in ireland , that the popes primat is as publick there , as his majesties ; nor are their scooles lesse patent , or their meetings for their idolatrous worship lesse publick ; but whither , what hath been lately done in england , doth lessen or highten the amasement , is a question : every one thought he had so much reason to disbeleeve a designe of setling popery , that the nation was abused into a supine negligence & deep security , even while they looked on & saw it excresce , to the contemning of law , & overtoping of all other intersts ; insomuch that men for feare ( forsooth ) of losing the repute of wise and prudent , fooled themselves for company , either into a sameness of apprehension , with such masters of reason , as judged this enterprise , on the court's part , the height of folly , and the jealousy of it in others , a shallownesse of apprehension at best ; or dissimulation of their feares , vvhich hath been plagued vvith a vvretched reguardlessenesse , hovv it vvent vvith the interest of christ ; and if novv and then they vvere pulled by the eare , and bid look about them , ere it vvas too late , by such as compared the courses taken , to propagat that abomination , and promove the popish interest at home , vvith his majesty's carriage vvhen abroad , hovv he remained inexorable notvvithstanding of all entreaties , nor could he , by the most ardent and earnest beseechings of the protestants , be overcome to a compliance with their desires , of being present at their worship , frequenting in the mean time the mass , in paris , brussels , cullen , &c. which with other things , was the ground of that assurance we had from abroad , that his maj. had renounced the protestant religion , the papist's boasting everywhere very openly that his maj. was turned catholick , and making use of it as an argument to prevail with others , whom they endeavoured to seduce into the same abomination : the protestants vvere grieved and sad at the certain persvvasion and foresight of vvhat would follow , ( though we were fooled into a fearelessenesse ) to the prejudice of the reformed religion , upon his majesties restitution ; yet they would reason themselves into an obstinatnesse in their first opinion , and though they neither did , nor could deny his majesties carriage abroad , to have been such , nor yet shut their eyes upon what they saw acted at home ; they would still , graunting all their monitors premisses , which , being matters of fact , were manifest by their own evidence and light beyond a denyal , reject their inference , and upbraid for the brutishnesse of such a feare , seing such a setlement of popery , was inconsistent vvith policy , and utterly destructive of his majesties interest ; supposing that whatever favours he heaped upon these unhappy men , would not excresce to the prejudice of that , but be confined within the limits , vvhich his own honour , ( to say nothing of what the oath of god required of him ) and the liberty of the nation , should have set to his liberality , yea for confirming themselves in this their tenaciousnesse , they would both give and graunt ( but without ground ; for he who will be false to the true and living god , vvill readily be true to a false ; because this is inflicted as a part of their punishment , yea a dreadful part and plague it is upon such as make apostasy , that they should be mad upon idols ) that his maj. in his exile and distresse ; might not onely , in order to the engaging of the popish party , to endeavour his restitution , and secure a maintenance to him while abroad , frequent their mass , and openly decline the protestant assemblies and worship , but had besids , given the pope all possible assurances , of enslaving the nation to idolatry , upon his restitution , and in the highest and most ample formality , had renounced the protestant religion ( being indulged for the interim , upon a politick designe , and in order to the more safe and certain performance of his promise , to retain in his family the english service book ; whereof one said well , that it was an ill said mass ) giving , i say , and graunting all this , yet the evidence his maj hath given , that with him it is a light matter to break covenants , oaths and most solemne engagements , whereby his own soul , together with the souls of the whole nation , vvere most explicitly and formaly bound to the most high , as alteri parti contrahenti , under the pain of his dreadful displeasure , when the adherence unto , or the performance of these vovves , seemed to interfere with his other designes , or were apprehended ( o sad mistak , vvhere the error exposeth to the ire of him , who cuteth of the spirit of princes , and is terrible to the kings of the earth ) to be inconsistent , with his other interests ; this i say , gave them ground to over-perswade themselves ; and because they would have had it so , flatter themselves into the beleefe ; that such promises would not be looked upon as obligatory , when they were discovered to be so manifestly destructive , not onely of all the deare and precious concerns of his subjects , but , to conviction , a total ecclipse of royal majesty ; being really the debasing of his person , and prostitution of his imperial crown , to be trampled upon , and trode under foot by that romish beast . but if i can do no more , for awaking such to weep over , what their security , and the dreamings of the nation , make now almost humanitus impossible to prevent ; ( onely with god all things are possible ) i would desire them , in the first place , to consider , that for kings to be blindfolded and hurried headlong into this slavery , is nothing else , but what we have expressely foretold by the h. ghost ; and is it any thing else in him , to follow the drove of those , who , in like manner , have over the belly of the same perswasions to the contrair , shut up themselves in this house of bondage , and subjected their consent to the dominion of this beast , this mistresse of witchcrafts , who entiseth the kings of the earth , to commit fornication with her , and having made them drunk vvith the cup of her abominations , vvhich she propineth them , they submit their neck , to take on her yoke , & give their power , to maintain her grandure , in opposition to jesus christ , whose servants are slaine by their svvord , to gratify & satiat the cruelty of this scarlet coloured vvhore drunk vvith the blood of the saints and martyrs ? yea the kings of the earth , are so bevvitched into a complacency with her fetters , & intoxicat vvith her cup , to that height of madnesse , that they vvill vveep & cry , alas , alas , at the sight of her smoak & burning ( soon may he and the rest of the kings of the earth see it , & vomit out at their eyes , the satisfaction they have taken , in sheding the blood of the saints ; if nothing else will be a curbe to their rage , against the lord and his servants , & cure them of this madnesse , he is the lord who will hasten it in it's time , and make her & them finde , that the lord who judgeth both , and avengeth the blood of his servants , is strong , when he taketh vengance , and meeteth them not like a man ) but secondly , i judge , as to us , it would be more prudence and religion too , to be lesse confident in our politicks , not onely because of the expresse prediction of this infatuation ; but when we consider , what ground there is of feare , that his majesty , in the righteous judgement of god , be abandoned to the advance and setlement of this abomination , contrair to his own and the nation's interest ; these revoults from , these insurrections and rebellions against , the most high , these deliberat and shamefull breaches of solemne covenants , and sacred vovves , whereof he hath made himself and his dominion guilty , may rather make us wonder , if the lord do not leave him to follovv these courses , then to see him given up unto them : is it not a righteous thing vvith god , since he hath broken his covenant with the most high , wherein as he was bound to nothing , but to walk with god in his kingly capacity , and rule for him ; so in the same covenant , his subjects in a just subordination to the lord & his christ , were solemnely engaged to obey him , to be religiously tender of his honour and interests , and himself , together with the world , knoweth , that it is to this oath of god , whereby his subjects found themselves obliged in conscience , to endeavour his restauration , that he oweth his crown and peaceable restitution : i say , is it not a righteous thing with god , since he hath broken such a covenant , whereof he hath reaped so much advantage , to leave him to such courses , and the making of such confederacies , as shall make the world see , feare and tremble , at the revelation of his judgments , because of a broken covenant . it were as superfluous for me , to offer the nation an account , of the manner and methods followed , in breaking this covenant , as it might seem to savour of a malicious designe , if matter of fact were represented , with some of those most obvious aggravations , which made the sinfulnesse of it reach heaven , and is like to cause god remember this iniquity : but sure each soul , who hath not sinned away all conscience , of the sacred obligatorinesse of oaths and covenants , especially these , made , not onely before the most high as a judge , but vvith him , as with the party contracting , cannot remember , with what solemnity , this covenant was entered into , and vvith vvhat insolence , rage and spight , it hath been throvvn in the fire , and trampled upon , and made treasonable for any to assert it's obligation ; and hovv , to this day , vvhosoever dare not for feare of the almighty , do the same abominable thing , which his soul hateth , maketh himself an offender , and exposeth his person to the lash of the mischiefs , framed into a law , against the asserters of this obligation ; ( o daring insolence against god , and base ingratitude against men , thus to destroy the men , who were the sole instruments of restoring his majesty ! ) but , as he must perceive , the contrivers and framers of these lawes , abandoned of god , to vvalk in the vvayes and imaginations of their own evil heart , so he needeth not wonder , if persons so judicialy left , to courses , destructive of their eternal welbeing , and the onely valuable interest of their soul , be also in the righteous judgement of the lord , left to such courses , as are truely destructive of their temporal interests ; the not receiving of the love of the truth , especialy the opposing and persecuting it , may not onely be punished , with a being given up of god to strong delusions , to beleeve a lye , that they may be damned ; but also to a being given up to strong delusions , to beleeve a lye about all their worldly interests and concerns : o that it might be given unto his maj. as his mercy , which were a favour , every way preferable to the empire of the universe , and as the mercy of this poor nation , to remember his ovvn evil vvayes , and to turn to the living god , that so he might turn avvay from the fiercenesse of his anger , and then establish his throne , upon the solid base of religion and righteousnesse . thirdly , let such over-wise politicians , awake out of this dreame , to consider , not onely , the facility of this establishment , but hovv it is so really and upon the matter already setled , while vve sleep ; that the prevention , of a formal establishment , seemeth onely in his power , who laughs the wicked out of their project 's , and bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought ; to say nothing of the unmasked confidence , and plain peremptorinesse , wherewith the popish party amongst our selves , have , of a long time , boasted in terminis , hovv their plot was so laid , that it could not misgive ; nor of their insultings abroad , upon the same grounds of assurance : let it be considered , first , to what number , strength and power , the popish party amongst us , is arrived , partly by the secret encouragement , partly by the open countenance they have had , since his majesties return : as for their power and prevalency at court , the current of affairs is demonstrative , that they are the only cabal , who spirit and animat all our motions ; for it had been impossible else , ever to have engaged and involved us , in this war against the dutch , in whose designed overthrow , the destruction of the protestant interest is intended : and as to there number , besids the swarmes of those locusts which cover the face of our court and city , and overspread the whole land , and that inundation , which , like a torrent , floweth in upon us from forraigne parts , as if rome had opened it's sluce , to drown us with that deludge , or rather the dragon had cast these waters out of his mouth , to cause the woman thereby to be carryed avvay , and svvallovved up , vvhich lately had brought forth , the man child of such a reformation : is it not found by experience ( for regis ad exemplum totus componitur orbis ) that , not a fevv persons , of quality , are gone over and seduced into the romish perswasion , of whom , no such thing was feared or apprehended ; insomuch that he who is not tainted himself with this wicked contagion , beginneth to doubt , what person of quality , may be concluded , to be realy fixed in an opposition to this wickednesse ; there seemeth to be nothing , but a fit opportunity , vvanting , to make an incredible discovery of persons , vvho yet think it convenient , to goe under the name and disguise of protestants : and as men vvho knovv the romish principles , and hovv ordinary it is for them , to tranforme themselves into every shape , that , while appearing like angels of light , they may with lesse observation , and more certainty , carry on their work , and establish their kingdom of darknesse , may very rationaly judge that they are numerously lurking , under the garbe even of the manifold and various perswasions , which seem , in their principles & practices , most remote from , and opposit to popery ; ( i need not mention , how they svvarme amongst , and are served by our episcopal clergy ) so it is very vvell knovvn , in vvhat numbers , they have hid themselves , and hatched their vvickednesse , under the dottage and disguise of quakerisme ; insomuch , that sober and discerning men , from the consideration of these mens priciples , their desperat enmity , especialy at the stanch protestants , and more eminently godly non-conformists , together with the good understanding , which is between the leading persons of that party , and the court , do rationaly inferre , if ever there be an opportunity for these men , to discover what they are at bottome , the bulck of them , will be found , vvith the utmost of irrational and brutish fury , to adjoine themselves to the popish party , or rather discover , hovv being already their 's in heart , they onely judged it most convenient to dissemble , and lurk under this shape , till vvith most advantage to popish idolatry , and danger to the protestant interest , they might appeare , in the true shape of the locusts , vvho are like horses prepared unto the battel , rev. , , , , . having for their king and captain abaddon or apollyon . . but then as their number , may give the facility to this setlement , an obvious probability ; so it is more assured from their posture , and present readinesse for action , and warlick capacity for puting all the mischief that is in their heart , in execution , and with a rage peculiar to the dragon's followers , runing dovvn whatever would offer to stand in their way , or oppose this setlement . i need not here repeat that which is already hinted , what of our visible military strength , is in their hand , and how our forts , forces , armouries , magazines , with all manner of warlick-provisions , seem to be destined and devouted to that service : but have not wise men , with feare and amazement , observed , how , that since his majesties return , the popish nobility , gentry , yea to the most ordinary of the common people of that persvvasion , from the one end of the nation , to the other , have , being prompted and put on by these restlesse ring-leaders , the priests and jesuits , been preparing their slaughter weapons ; so that he vvho considereth their present capacity and posture , cannot escape this conviction ; that there was never in england , so numerous , and so well appointed an army , lying ready at a call , as there is , at this day , of papists , whose blind rage against god and his truth , will prompt them to the height of cruelty , against all ranks , sexes and ages ; hence are these dayly boastings at home , of apprehended impossibility of the misgiving of this setlement , and these insultings abroad , at it's certainty , the papists not standing to say , that novv , they see no rub in their way , if the united provinces were once ruined . secondly , the difficulty of accomplishing this their wicked designe , will evanish , if these two be further considered ; first , how the persons of quality in the nation , are utterly debauched , ( for , alas , they who are chief , are chief in all abominations and unexampled impieties ) especialy the young nobility , and gentry ; secondly , what a constant and known transition there is , from atheisme & all profanity , to popery , the mother and nurse of all abominations in practice : he , i say , vvho considereth these things , vvill be so far from expecting an effectual opposition , to the setlement of popery , from a generation , vvho seem rather , to have been brought forth and educat in the stewes of rome , then borne vvithin the pale of the visible reformed church , that he vvill conclude , a liberty to live as in the suburbs of hell , vvill make them vvithout difficulty , professe themselves the childreen of that mother , vvhom they do so perfectly resemble : will these , vvho can glory in being beasts , and boast themselves of their prodigious wickednesse , these , who in the whole of their way , carry , as if they had nothing in them , above the swine , having buried in that dunghil and pudle of sensitive delights , wherein they wallow , the consideration of their immortal souls , contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints , or resist unto blood , striving against this wickednesse , even when under the countenance and encouragement of authority ? if any will persist , in his obstinat incredulity , when his majesty's indulgence is ( after all the other favours he hath heaped upon them ) extended , to the seting up of their idolatrous worship , throughout his dominions , that the introducing of popery is not designed , and that there is nothing , in this our conjunction vvith the french king , against the protestant stats , declarative of this purpose , or continue impersvvadible of a possibility to compasse it , he is like to be knokt in the head , for a cure of this distemper , and may be certainly concluded , by puting far away the thoughts of such a day , to be given up , that he may be swept away , in this dreame , to a spirit of deep sleep and delusion : if we be men , and have not so mancipat our reason , that no reasoning will be prevalent to bring us to our right minde , we cannot deny a conclusion , inferred upon such premisses : but withal ; if we be christians , and add to all the above adduced evidences , that both this is upon the heart of adversaries , and a competency also , yea overplus of power in their hand , to effectuat it , the consideration of our sin , and wrath presaging security ; we may with trembling , entertain ourselves , with these thoughts and fears , that god , in his righteous judgement , because of our abuse of his glorious gospel , and impenitence , under most cleare and crying calls to repent , and receive instruction , lest his soul be seperat from us , be about the taking away of his kingdome from us , and giving it to a nation , which will bring forth the fruits thereof , and render them to him in their season ; and because we have not loved to walk in the truth , he deprive us of that truth , and in taking away his candlestick , write our sin , and his displeasure upon our punishment : and here , i cannot forbeare to tell , how with feare and anxiety , i have heard some of our good ministers , tush at the expressions of their brethrens feare of a designe to setle popery , as if the thing were a pure impossibility ; but i judge , they did so , rather because they would have it so , and partly from a peece of inadvertency ; then from the due & serious weighing , both of what we have done to deserve it , and what the adversaries , are designeing and doing ; for , if these were represented to us , as nothing should be found , in the dispenfations of god , so nothing in the disposition of his own people , or of his and their adversaries , which would not presage sad things , yea minister matter of terrour , at the thoughts of this very thing . but without insisting , by a superfluous deduction or enumeration of particulars , further to demonstrat these things which are past all peradventure , with them , vvho vvill be at the pains to reflect on vvhat is past , and set , or suffer themselves to understand , the genuin sense and true import , of vvhat they novv heare & see acted , i shall ( as the thing aimed at in the whole of this discouse ) shut up all in a word or two , with a more direct reference to what i humbly judge , to be the duety of all the persons in the nation , who desire to be approved of god in such a day of triall , temptation , rebuke and blasphemy : and first , do not these things , my brethren , say , that now it is high time to awake out of sleep : let therefore the consideration of what we see acted and aimed at , at home , and the joint tendency of the tumults and combinations abroad , drive us out of our dreaming security , to consider in great seriousnesse , what danger the work of god amongst our selves , and throughout the world , is in ; shall we sleep as do others , while his precious interests and people are in such hasard ? shall the lords voice be crying to the city , to the countrey , to the nation , to all the churches of christ in the earth , and shall not we be so wise , to see his name , and understand the language of this his terrible rod , held over our head , and the designe of him who appointeth it ? it 's high time to awake , when we are liketo sleep the sleep of death , if we sleep long . secondly , it is not every inquiry into the emergents of the present day , or observation of the sad posture of affairs , that will prove us to be men of understanding who know the time ; if we could dive into the depth of all our enemies secreets , and make a perfect discovery of all their desperat designes ; yet unlesse we consider the things , which are like to overwhelme us in their procuring cause , unlesse we set our selves to search out the accursed thing that is with us , and what are the national , yea personal provocations of his sons and his daughters , for which he is like to give up the dearlie beloved of his soul , into the hand of his enemies , and into the hand of such as hate them with cruel hatred , all is lost labour . it would draw me to a length beyond my designe , to reckon up in order our provocations , or represent them with their high and hainous aggravations , time would fail for such an undertaking ; who is sufficient for this thing ? we may , with great certainty , say , upon a very overly search , that our wickednesse is great , and our trasgressions infinit ; it 's well for us , they want this of simple infinitnesse , that they can be swallovved up of infinit mercy : but there seemeth to be some special provocation , comprehensive of all the rest , pointed at by these manifold and multiplied dreadful calamities , under vvhich this poor nation hath been crushed , and by all these more formidable things , vvhereby , utter destruction of our persons , posterity , and of all our interests , both sacred and civil , is further threatned ; this is the thing , for which he is mainly contending , and this is that dangerous enemy , that domestick enemy the destroyer of the church and nation , after which our inquiry should be : and having discovered this enemy , if we would have peace with god , even that peace which passeth understanding , peace in life and death , peace in our borders , and on the israel of god , we are not to let him , when found , go in peace ; a revenge here , vvith the height of hatred and indignation , is not onely lavvful , but in order to the preservation of soul and body , church and kingdome , religion and liberty , simply necessar , and indispensibly duety ; if vve do not search this out , he vvill seek out our vvickednesse till he finde none , and then vvoe unto us ; or having found it , if vve make light of the matter , then we engage him to let us know , that it is a bitter and an evil thing that we have forsaken the lord our god , and that his feare hath not been before us ; if we would have his eye spare , our's must not : but what may this provocation be ? i must professe my self helped in this inquiry , by calling to minde , what an eminently faithful minister of jesus christ said , preaching at a fast upon our anniversary day , kept for the burning of london ; after he had insisted upon many sins , which might be pointed at by such a remarkable stroak ; but , said he , the strangenesse and stupendiousnesse of this judgement , seemeth to point at some one sin , which is by the head and shoulders taler then all the rest , ajudgement , the like whereof was never in the nation , seemeth , to point at a provocation , never before in all it's circumstances , nationally committed ; what can this be ? truely , said he , we need go no further to finde it out , here it is ; god burnt , or permitted in his anger this city to be burnt , because in it , by an order of king and parliament , ( horresco referens , be astonished o heavens at this ) that solemne covenant , entered into with the most high god , about things which had the most cleare connexion with his glory , and direct tendency to the advancement of the kingdome of his son , in the nation , and in the souls of men , wherein also the temporal , aswel as the eternal welfare , of each and all the persons contracting vvith the lord god , ( as his maj. vvho ovveth his crovvn and establishment to it , may say ) vvas provided for , and secured ; even this covenant vvas burnt in our city , by the hand of the common hangman ; this , said he , is a punishment in it's greatnesse and strangenesse , some way proportioned to the sin pointed at , whereby it vvas procured : he spake like a seer , and one who had the minde of christ , that said it : o that all ministers of the nation , spake the same things , at least on those dayes , appointed for weeping between the porch and the alter ; and that all the professing people of the nation , who have come under the bond of this covenant , might , in order to a right mourning before the lord , be like minded ! however , in this discovery i subsist : it was fit ; it was an act of holy righteousnesse in the judge of all the world , that the nations abroad , who had heard of the burning of this covenant , and had observed , how , in this , our rage against god , his vvork , way and people , had reached unto heaven ; by which act also , he being the great and glorious party contracted with , we gave him , with all imaginable fury and formality , the defiance , should also heare , hovv , this glorious lord god , thus dispightfully and dareingly provocked , had burnt that city , and sent as it vvere fire dovvn from heaven upon it , to consume the place , vvhere such a prodigious vvickednesse had been committed . truely , my brethren , it concerneth all of us , in this day of his contendings with us , and in this yeer of controversies , to call to minde a broken covenant , and a burnt covenant , vvhereby , vve , our king , our parliament , and the vvhole nation , stood unalterably engaged , to make our selves happy in holinesse , in vvorshiping the living god , according to his ovvn vvill , and in walking before him , in our particular stations and relations , like the vvorshipers of the true god : vvhose main designe in the world should be , the adorning of his doctrin , and shewing forth his vertues in all things : this covenant , i say , which bound us to our own blessednesse , in binding us to the good behaviour towards him , was broken , and these cords were cast away from us , this pale , whereby we were onely hedged up , from falling into everlasting burnings , was plucked up : now brittain , novv england lay it to thy heart , for this , the hand of the great god hath smitten , for this thing , it is still stretched out : will we not take warning ? will we harden our selves against him , & prosper ? may not the things , which have overtaken us already , make us know , that it is a feareful thing , to fall into the hands of the living god ? oh , inconsideration hath hardened us into impenitency , and ripened us for judgement ! will nothing awake us , till the terrors of god take hold on us as vvatter , and a sudden tempest of indignation , steal us avvay in the night ? it vvill be too late then , to think of fleeing out of his hand , when he hath begun , to cast upon us , and not spare , when he hath vvhet his glittering svvord , and his hand hath taken hold of vengeance : dreadful may the expectation of our hearts be , in the consideration of the things , vvhich , for this wickednesse , are coming , if repentance prevent it not ; our not having mourned for this abomination , our siting to this day , with vvhole hearts , beside the matter of so much sorrovv , may make us meditat terrour least he tear in pieces & there be none to deliver . let us consider , what judgements and plagues follovved upon the avouched and enacted breach of this covenant , that vve may know , hovv he hath contended , and will contend for this , if vve return not : in the first place , there is no man , who is not under the plague of spiritual occecation ; nay , no man vvho retaineth so much of morality , as will distinguish him from a beast , but if he vvill consider the practice and conversation of the men , vvho framed this mischiefe into a lavv , yea and of all vvho rejoyced in that day , and said , aha , so would vvee have it , this is the day we looked for , we have found , vve have seen it ; but it must extort this testimony from him , in despight of all palliatings , and covering vvith those coverings , vvhich are not of his spirit ; that since that day and time , never vvas there a race of men , never vvas there a generation , more remarkeably given up of god , to vvalk in the wayes of their ovvn heart , & that is hell-ward ; as there were never men , who have more manifestly declared their sin as sodom , or have been lesse solicitous to hide it ; so there was never a nation , never princes , never people , who might have been more justly expostulat with , in the same terms , that his people of old were upbraded for their wickednesse , is. . . hear the word of the lord ye rulers of sodom , give ear unto the law of our god ye people of gomorrah : as never people did cast off , so blessed and honourable a yoke , with so much malice and dispight ; so never was there nation or generation , who did more advisedly and deliberatly take on satans yoke , seting themselves to vvork wickednesse in the sight of the lord ; insomuch , that we are become a by-word , a hissing , & an abhorrence , as the very border of wickednesse , for our prodigious , & unheard of impieties , to the nations about us : oh , whither , since the day of our breach of faith with god , have we caused our shame to goe ? we have spoken and done evil as we could , and as if we had raked hell , to find out new methods of sinning , we have surpast the deeds of the heathen ; and as we had been onely delivered , to doe all these abominations ; so vvith a displayed banner , have vve fought against god , glorying in wallowing in the very kennel of hell , boasting of vvearing satan's black colours , and thinking it onely manhood and gallantry , to fight under his banner : let the records of former times be searched into , and let the practice of this generation , be compared with the greatest , and most universal vvickednesse , vvhich at other times had overspread the nation , and i am confident impartiality must say , that since the day of our solemne revoult from our svvorn subjection to the most high , satan hath been let loose more manifestly , to open as it vvere the very sluce of hell to the drovvning of the land , vvith a deluge of profanity , even after that the knovvledge of the glory of the lord , especialy upon our entering in that blessed covenant vvith him , had covered the land , in a good measure , as the vvatters cover the sea : from that day forevvard , alas , did the lord poure out his plagues , upon the hearts of the men of that conspiracy ; so that he who did run , might have read this engraven upon their practice , that as they did not like to retain god in their knowledge ; so god had given them over to a reprobat minde , to doe those things , vvhich are not convenient , being filled vvith all unrighteousnesse , fornication , &c. after they had broken covenant vvith him , they added , this iniquity of burning it , to that sin , proceeding from evil to worse , which had more of displeasure in it , then if they had , upon passing this law , been stricken dead with a thunder bolt from heaven ; for this was to be left , to act so , and doe that wickednesse , vvhich being considered in it's complexe , and with all it's circumstances , had never been done under the whole heaven before , let be in the nation ; ( i graunt the the like was acted in our neighbour nation of scotland , where the causes of wrath were burnt , containing an acknowledgment , of sin for the breach of this covenant ; but as this was an act of the same abused power ; so it was of a piece , with this monstruous impiety ) so that i may very rationaly doubt , if ever there was , a more solemne and acceptable sacrifice offered unto satan , upon the earth , then to have the nations engagement with god , so opprobriously cast into a fire : i know , all the ten plagues of egypt , to a gracious heart , who looketh upon sin as the worst of evils , if they had together fallen on the nation would not be remembred in one day , with this cleare and undeniable evidence of the displeasure of the lord ; that the nation should be left to commit such a wickednesse ; satan who had fled seven wayes before the fire of that zeal , which was found amongst the people of the lord , in the day when they entered into this covenant with him , & tooke on them these vowes , knew well , that now a throne would be erected to him , & that he should without controul , exerce a soveraignity in the nation , & we have seen it so : hovv , alas , hath he since that day , exerced as a prince a dominion ? & how hath that spirit , wrought in the childreen of disobedience ? but secondly , because the generality did not observe , this dreadful evidence of his displeasure ; and were not sensibly affected vvith the vvrath , that vvas vvitnessed against men , by leaving them to post in the vvayes of perdition , and run according to the drivings of satan ; he tooke other vvayes , to make the most stupid of the nation sensible of his anger from that day ; to say nothing ( vvhich yet speaketh the thing so distinctly , that idiots may understand it ) of disapointment of our hopes , and blasting of our big expectations ; for vve dreamed of nothing , but , upon his majesties return , that vve should be the head , and all other nations the tail , that vve should then floorish in trade , and increase in treasure and strength , to the suppressing and overawing of all , who would offer to compet with us ; now in stead of this expectation , wherein we blessed ourselves , and whereof we boasted , as if already arrived at our hoped for harbour , our substance is consumed , there is a moth in our estat , he bloweth upon what we had , and bloweth it away , we lose our flesh and fatnesse , our mirth is turned into mourning , and our organ into the voice of them that weep , the whole nation filled with murmuring and complaints of penury , and , which is a prodigy , the very court that eat up all , cryeth out , my leannesse my leannesse : to passe these things , i say , without insisting upon them ; let us , by a few crying evidences , remember , how god remembred this iniquity , and visited us for this sin , with judgement : and because , england had never nationaly so dared him to his face , as in his own sight , in the sight of angels and men , to burn that obligation by a decree ; wherein , the nation had obliged themselves to be his , to be no more their own , to be no more at the dispose of others , but in a due subordination to him as supreme ; he giveth order , to a destroying angel , to fall upon that city , where this wickednesse was decreed and perpetrat , and then the chief actors must flee for it , and seek another seat and city ; i need say no more of this , but as never prince , never parliament , neither the nation or city , had been guilty of such outrage , and rebellion against the lord , so never did plague rage in the same manner , nor did the destroying angel get a command to put up his sword , till such heaps , were laid upon heaps , and so many thousands upon thousands ; that all who heard thereof , behoved to observe , and say , never was there such a plague in england ; and , if resolved into it's true cause , we must say , righteous art thou o lord god injudging thus , we are worthy , for never was there such a provocation in england . one vvoe is past , and behold another vvoe cometh quickly ? an evil spirit from the lord , entereth into our counsels , & precipitateth us into a vvar vvith the dutch , soliciting a peace vvith us ; ( i forebeare to mention , the unrighteousnesse of it , vvhich vvas a greater plague upon the contrivers and actors , then all that followed upon it , though the shame and losse , will make a great total ) in the beginning of this war , we were plagued with so much successe , as made us encourage our selves in this evil matter , victrix causa diis placuit thought we ; and yet in that little seeming succcesse we had , any discerning person might have observed , how the hand of the lord god of hosts , was gone forth against us ; for , though our enemies did flee , yet as being deprived by the lord , of both counsel and courage , we did not follow , vvhen we had them , even for the taking up ; so that if our effrontry make us boast , of this bout as a victory , we may , with blushing , remember the greater shame , that the lord poured upon us , in depriving us of the spirit of conduct , that we knew not , how to improve the advantage over a beaten enemy ; so that the lord by this successe , did seem onely to lift us up , that he might , with the greater shame , noise and observation , throw us down ; and truely , whoever remembereth that action and day , may confidently affirme , that the lord fought for holland and against england , seing he so observably interposed as a rere-vvard : but before this angel have done his vvork , that vve might have a nevv proof of the displeasure of the almighty , and that he might make the world see , hovv he himself , and not men , did cast us dovvn ; he sendeth a fire into our chiefe city , before this war be ended , vvhere vve had burnt that covenant ; ( i passe all consideration of the immediat instruments ; let us give and graunt , it was done upon designe , even this , maketh the judgement demonstrative , with a witnesse , of his wrath and indignation ) and as this fire , seemed to take wings , or be carried from house to house , and street to street , by a destroying angel ; so those , who were employed to quench it , ( o it 's ill quenching , where he kindleth , except with teares ) were deprived of all wisdome , and discretion ; or rather , as if in the righteous judgement of the lord , they had designedly set themselves to obstruct the quenching of it , and so it burnt till the bulk of the city was turned into ashes ; that as the nations abroad , had heard of our rage in burning that covenant , so they might hear of an act of holy revenge , and be witnesses to the righteousnesse of his judgement , in giving us fire for fire ; and as the like fury , had never been witnessed against the lord before , so he had never kindled the like fire in the nation before ; nay , nor almost the like in the world , since the burning of jerusalem ; and truely the parallel , between the judgements , may put us in minde of a parity , betwixt the provocations ; as the crucifying of the son of god , and putting him to an open shame , burnt the city of that bold abomination ; so the crucifying of him again , in shedding the blood of his servants , and puting him to such a shame , in burning a covenant made with him , ( which is an unheard-of indignity , amongst princes and stats , even when after the violation of leagues , they fall in open hostility ) kindled this fire , consumed the city of our solemnities , and buried it into it's ashes . but for all this , as we do not turn away from the evil of our way ; but in stead of stoping , and taking notice of the hand , that is gone forth against us , we continue in puting forth our hand to iniquity ; we become more insatiable in sinning , rushing foreward in our course , as the horse doth to the battel ; every bit and bridle , that 's put in our mouth , is too weak to hold us ; so his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still . the angel who had drawn the sword , in stead of puting it up , seemed onely to have been furbishing it , while the flame was consuming our city : as we were become a frovvard generation , childreen in vvhom was no faith ; so he continueth , in his righteousnesse , to heap mischiefs upon us , & to spend his arrowes upon us : we goe on with the war ; now , that god , who deprived us of wisdome hovv to improve our former victory , first , leaveth us in the pride and haughtinesse of our heart , to the folly and infatuation , of dividing our fleet , and then he mustereth the host of the battel that cometh against us ; and so vve are foiled and put to flee , before that enemy , of vvhom vve had said , vve had no other regret , but because engaged against an enemy , unvvorthy of our spirit and courage ; novv are the dutch their prisons filled vvith english prisoners : but vvhy doe i insist ? the close of the vvar , is the confusion of england , and a perfect ecclipse of it's glory , our english vvalls are broken dovvn and burnt , vvherein the hand of him vvho judged us , vvas so visible , that the actors themselves doe not mention it othervvise , then as the doing of the lord , vvhich vvas mervellous in their eyes : novv is our court confounded and distracted , because the lord , against vvhom they had sinned vvith so high a hand , made bare his holy arm , in the sight of the nations , by fighting against them ; novv is the nation , in an universal consternation novv is london seised vvith a panick feare , to that height as it had been easy for the enemy , to have burnt the remainders of our city , that had escaped the former fire : and vvhereas , vve vvould have a vvar , on any terms , vvith our peacable neighbours ; novv vve must post avvay our order , to accept of a peace on any termes , and ( vvhich is remarkable ) be forced to passe from those pretensions , on vvhich vve had founded the equity of our vvar ; thus are vve stript of our glory ; and the crovvn , vvhich vve had vvorn for many yeers , in the sight of the nations , falleth from our head ; ( alas , that vve should have forgotten to have said , woe unto us that we have sinned ) england vvho had upheld these provinces , against the pride of the spanish tyrranny , england vvho had conquered france , and at the same time , vvere victorious over the scotch their confederats , must novv finde the nation perfectly besieged , by them , vvhom , in our pride , vve thought not a people ; our ships burnt , in the most secure harbours of england , and vve necessitat , when under the feet of these whom vve had despised , to accept of a peace ; which they might have made us condescend unto upon lesse honourable termes : which things befell us , that when the present generation shall consider , and the succeeding ages inquire , into the cause of this disaster , and aske the question , how vve vvere so vvonderfully brought down ; it may be answered , because in stead of keeping the covenant with their god , they burnt it , therefore , that they might read their sin and rage in their judgement , ( or , if they would not , others might ) as he had formerly burnt their city , now he burnt their ships , not in the sea , but vvithin their harbours ; and thus he called the nations to be vvitnesses , to the heat of his displeasure , in burying our glory : as their was never such a sin before committed in the land , we were never thus put to shame , and spit upon , in the sight of the nations ; our being made base & contemptible , in the eyes of them , vvho honoured us , and had us in estimation , must be refounded upon our bold sining against the most high god ; and our trampling upon his honour and interest , vvith such evidences of contempt , hath made us be greatly despised amongst the nations , and caused him , against whom we had lifted up our selves , trample us under foot , as the mire of the streets : well , wee must now beare our shame , and finde our selves sunk in the gulfe of ignominy , whereby the lord was in a manner , trying us , if vve would turn from the evil of our way : but , alas , that , which was the observe of the holy ghost upon ahaz , was manifestly verified upon us ; so that it might have been , with the same evidence and certainty , said ; this is that court , this is that kingdome , who being rebuked so remarkably , did , in stead of accepting the punishment of their sin , trespasse yet more and more against the lord. in this interval , wherein we seemed to have tranquillity from enemies without , the plague upon our heart , is more evident , by the evil that was in our hand : vve had some quiet it 's true , ( vvherein he gave us space to repent , and accept of the punishment of our sins ) but it vvas not so much a true peace , as the dravving back of the hand of the great god , that he might fetch the sorer blovv ; for in stead of humbling our selves under the mighty hand of god ; as if vve did meditat revenge against heaven , vve not onely continued in our former unchristian practices ; but , vvhat our imperial crown had lost of it's lustre , vve think to make it up , by appending the mediator's crown to it ; and therefore , though we fall before others , yet we will , as we began , continue to fight against god ; and in this interval of peace from forraigne enemies ; as we had burnt the bond of our subjection to jesus christ , so in prosecution of the same quarrel , we advance our supremacy , to the degrading and exautorating of him , by whom kings reigne ; and carry with that height of insolence , as if we had , not onely resolved , to out-do all , that ever led the way to us , in this opposition to christ as king in zion ; but further , to give the defiance to all , that ever should come after us , to make a law , vvhich being considered in it's most plain and obvious meaning , can , without straining , speak this more explicitly ; that , this man , this one jesus , who calleth himself a king , shall not reigne over us , we have no king but caesar : we stated the question de finibus imperii mediatoris , and decided in our ovvn favour , once for all ; making a decree , to take the house of god in possession to our selves ; yea , and as if , vve intended to eternize our enmity and opposition to the son of god ; vve , together vvith the imperial crovvn of the nation , transmit a legal right to our successors , to the crovvn and scepter of jesus christ ; as if it vvere a satisfaction for us , to lie dovvn in the grave , vvith an assurance , that his crovvn should not floorish upon his ovvn head ; by vvhich one act , all our former insolencies were reacted , vvith this addition ; that , vvhatever vve please to do in the house of the god of heaven hereafter , must be legal : and thus , the church hath got an exotick head , and vve have filled up the measure of our iniquity : o that it might please the father of mercies , to give repentance to his majesty & the nation , and to preserve both from reaping that harvest of grief and desperat sorrow , vvhich such a seed-time presageth : in the mean time , the consumption , of the nation , is visible in it's countenance , it 's soul and substance is consumed ; ( as vvas excellently laid openin that first & second discourse of my lord lucas , before the house of lords , in whom alone the ancient gallant spirit of the english nation did shew it self and shine forth , & who , by that heroick act , hath erected to himself a monument , in the heart of all true english-men , & proposed himself as a worthy paterne of imitation , to all who affect the glory of being true patriots ) yet , while the nation is in this low and languishing condition , vve are ploting and contriving a new war against the dutch , and therefore vve pick quarrels vvith them , to give our own designes some colour of justice , having resolved upon the vvar , let them offer , what rational satisfaction they can ; yet , as if the lord , from heaven would openly rebuke these secret mischievous contriveances and works of darknesse ; he in a manner giveth a commission , to that very element , the stage on which we designe to act this wickednesse , to fall upon us , sink our ships at sea , sweep away a considerable part of our remaining substance , and svvallovv up our land ; and as upon pestilence , fire and svvord , this had been vvritten , by the finger of the righteous judge of all the earth , never the like before seen in england ; so of this tempest , this turnado and inundation ( vvhereby the sea vvas become difficult and dangerous for passage , in reguard of broken ships , filled also vvith the sad spectacle of drovvned men , driving to and fro in it , the land overflovved , houses , beasts and men , having one common burial place ) it was also said , never , did the lord witnesse at once , so much of his displeasure against the nation , by any sea-storme ; hereby particularly pointing at and plaguing the kingdome , both for our breach of covenant vvith the most high , and our former , and again resolved upon breach of covenant vvith our neighbours , as also our foolish pretension , to an absolut dominion of the sea , to vvhich vve could set no bounds ; if that by taking notice of the displeasure of the living god against our iniquous contriveances vve might be stopped in this unhappy carreer ; but all in vain , forevvard we vvill goe . and the thing that maketh the anger of the lord , more manifest against us , and our french confederat's , in this dispensation , was , that remarkable passage of providence ; vvhile much havock vvas at the same time , made upon the french coast , aswel as upon ours , the dutch fleet , against which we were making most fervid preparations , did ride all the time safe at anchor , as it were in the centre betwixt the two , without any lose ; god thereby in a manner manifesting , that he had taken these , whom we , in designe and endeavour , had devouted to destruction , into his own immediat protection ; a happy omen ; and who knoweth , but it is a speaking prognostick , of what he intendeth , further to doe for them and by them , to the frustration , and disappointment of our projects & preparations ; & how , because we would not behold the majesty of the lord , nor see , when his hand was listed up , nor listen to the voice of such a dreadfully menacing disswasive , he mindeth to make us see , and put us to shame , for our envy at his people , and cause the world take notice of it , when he maketh the fire of his enemies to devour us . now , my friends and brethren , my designe in this deduction , and the assignement of it's cause , is not to lodge the provocation alone with the court , and leave it at their door , as if we were innocent , and in case to plead guiltlesse ; no , for besid's that we have made it our ovvn , for not mourning as we ought , for this horrid abomination , our shareing so deeply in the punishment , pointeth at , & proveth us to be , deeply guilty in the provocation : that vve may therefore , by repentence , prevent the vvoeful day , & by remembring vvhence vve have fallen , renew first love , and return to first vvorks , before he remove the candlestick , vvhich is the terrible judgement , vvherevvith vve are this day threatened ; let us consider , hovv justly he may proceed , to the utmost of holy severity , and observe , vvhat of spotlesse equity , hath been manifested , in all the smoakings of his vvrath against us , in all these blovves of his hand , whereby our beauty is consumed ; let us think , hovv guilty vve are , for not having been stedfast in his covenant , and for not performing our vowes to the most high , before he make a full end , and smite us so , that affliction shall not spring up the second time : as it is neither possible for me , to enumerat all those wayes , how we have made our selves guilty , of a contempt and dreadful misreguard of that oath of god , whereby vve were so expressely , so solemnly & indispensibly engaged in our several places and stations , to walk before him to all pleasing , minding and advancing , above all earthly concerns , reformation and religion , witnessing and shewing forth it's power , in our conversation , that , the nation might have been called by that name , jehovah shammah , that so the reproach of egypt ( the untendernesse , i mean , and profanity , which was amongst the multitude , kept under superstitious ignorance for a great part , before our late reformation ) might have been rolled away from us ; nor to accent and sharpen these challenges , with their just aggravations and edge , that they may cut us at the heart , and make us cry out ; men and brethren , what shall we do , to be delivered from the approaching destruction and impendent ruine , whereto , we and our posterity , for the breach of our covenant , and backslidings , are exposed ? so , i do purposely passe and forbeare it ; lest i should seem to exprobrat these to one party as more guiltie , while i passe by another as more innocent ; but i am sure while all are charged with this guilt , every gracious heart will suspect himself , and say , master is it i ? and he is like to be found deepest in the transgression before god , who is most ready to make light of the matter , and with a supine misreguard of his own backslidings and gods anger , dare in stead of puting his mouth in the dust as guilty before him , wipe it , and say , what have i done ? let us not onely witnesse our repentance by a personal reformation ; but by a serious minding in our place and station , the reviving of his work : let us set ourselves to weep over the dust and stones of zion : let us give him no rest , till he return and build his house , and fill it with his own glorious presence , making thereby our gates salvation and our walls praise : god seemeth by all the dispensations of the day , to put us , without more debat or delay , to chuse whether we will bleed or weep ? and if we be sparing of our teares , justice is like to be prodigal of our blood : if our eye do not trickle down without intermission , at the sight of the desolations of the sanctuary , and at the danger and distresse of all the churches of christ , till the lord look down and behold from heaven , he is threatening to bring distresse upon us , that we shall walk like blind-men , both because of our sining against the lord , and our security ; and to pour out our blood as the dust and our flesh as the dung : do we not see the church and nation ready to be devoured , by the fire of his jealousy ? do we not perceive the men with the slaughter weapon in their hand ? why then do we delay to gather our selves together ? why do vve not retire within our selves , that we may return to the most high with rops about our neck , as sentenced persons , upon the sight of the plague of our own heart , & the iniquities that are in our hand , but particularly our woeful departings from , and breaches of covenant with our god , before the decree bring forth , before the day passe as the chaff , before the fierce anger of the lord come upon us ? as a none such hath been written over the head of these judgements , which are already come ; so we may certainly conclude , that a none such , to make the ears of all that heare it tingle , and strike their hearts with amazement and terrour , at the report thereof , shall be written upon the wrath and woes , that he will bring upon us for these breaches if not mourned over : if the lord employ the french , irish and english papists , which stand ready girt with their sword upon their thigh , breathing out cruelty , and thirsting after blood , to be the executioners of his displeasure , for a despised gospel , and to avenge the quarrel of a broken covenant , and punish us , as our congregations have heard , for our impenitencies and unperswadablenesse by all that hath yet come upon us , so to make our prayer before the lord our god , that we might turn from our iniquity and understand his truth ; then may we conclude , that the nation shall be made a golgotha , a place of dead mens skuls , and that not onely the massacre of paris , alva's murther and blood-shed in the low-countreys , the murthers and villanies committed in the valleys of piedmont , with all the marian bloodshed & persecution in our own nation , but even that more bloody and barbarous massacre of ireland , shall either be quit forgotten , or mentioned as light things , vvhen compared with the havocks , bloods , murthers , fire and faggot , whereby to the satiating the malice , fury , and revenge of her that must be drunk with the blood of the saints , and to the blunting of the edge of her instrument's rage , keen to the utmost of cruelty , the land shall be laid wast and made utterly desolat : if we still sleep on , after he hath done so much to awake us , after so many voices of word and rod , after he hath been saying unto us , shall i not visit for these things ? shall not my soul be avenged upon such a generation as this ? then there is no hope but that we shall be made a generation of his wrath ; nor is there another expectation , but that he will accomplish his anger , and cause his fury to rest upon us , and be comforted : o for grace to awake & prevent this woeful day , before he cause darknesse , and before our feet stumble upon the dark mountains ! let us therefore while it is called to day , beware of hardning our hearts ; let us consider one another , and every man himself , to provok unto the excercise of repentance , let us think on our backslidings , and breaches of covenant , that we may return unto the lord our god , before he cause his anger to fall upon us : let us hast while there is a may be of hope , while there is yet a , who knoweth , if the lord will return , and repent , and turn away from his fierce anger , and think upon the church , the nation , our selves and posterity , that we perish not . the last thing wherewith i shall shut up this discourse , is , to remind you my brethren , of what i formerly hinted , viz : that from the consideration of the manifest unrighteousnesse of this war , not so much against the dutch , as against the lord god , in concurring with , and assisting the sworn enemies of the reformed religion ; yea and against our selves , our liberties , and our posterity , by strengthening the hands of the most stated adversary in the world to the prosperity of the english nation , we may not onely be humbled , that our court should be left of the lord to these wicked contrivances , religion and libertydestroying courses , and that so many of our brethren , should be dragged as slaves , to assist in this religion-overturning covenant-breaking war ; but , that as we would not by an association with the workers of these iniquities , and a participation in their sin , share in the remarkable punishments , and terrible plagues , whereby the righteous lord will certainly be avenged , for this breach of faith and alliance , for this conspiracy against the reformed religion ; so , we would withdraw and flee from , if we would not fall into the hands of a provoked god , all concurrence in carrying on this war , directly or indirectly : neither let us think to please god , or be approved of him , if we acquiesce in a simple forbearance , to contribut our assistance thereto ; nay somewhat else then such a neutrality is called for , in a day , when , all things being considered , there seemeth to be the most formally pitched battel , between hrist and anti-christ , that hath been in many generations : we are called under the hafard of being reput and reckoned enemies to christ and his cause ( for when he is crying so formally at this time , who is on my side who ? all that are not with him shall be esteemed enemies unto him ) while some of our brethren in the simplicity of their heart , not knowing any thing , are insnared and seduced into this quarrel , and moe are deprived of their liberty , dragged as slaves , and pressed to go fight , and sacrifice their lives to the court , and french interest , in prejudice of all these precious things and interests , which make life desirable , and in the preservation whereof , it is glory to die : i say while it is thus , we are called to pour out our hearts together and apart on the behalfe of our distressed , shamefully by us deserted , yea betrayed protestant brethren , that the lord god of hosts , would make bare his strong arm and stand up for their help : we are not onely debtors to them , when we can contribut nothing else to their assistance , while they must jeopard their lives , in contending against the mighty enemies of the lord and his people , for all the supply and help we can make them , by our assiduous and most importune beggings and beseechings of god , for their safety and preservation , upon the account of the reformed religion , vvhich , if they be foiled and put to the worse , must also fall with them , as to it 's visible profession ; but also upon the account of the true liberty and reall interest of england ; let the things already mentioned , to demonstrat this , upon our supposed successe against them , be considered , and it will make the matter so evident , that i am sure , as he cannot be a christian or one who wisheth the preservation of the church , and coming of the kingdome of the son of god in the world , since there hath not been for many ages , a people , whose civil interest was so twisted and enterwoven , with the great interest of christ through the earth , in opposition to antichrist ; so i am upon rational grounds perswaded , that he cannnot have the heart of a true english-man , he cannot be a true lover of the real good , liberty and honour of our nation , who doth not wish well unto , and is not earnestly solicitous for the safety of the united provinces in this juncture : alas ! shall our brethren the dutch , goe down into the valley to fight with the enemy , and be engaged , not onely upon the account of their own liberty , their civil interests , and the reformed religion ; but also most evidently by an undenyable consequence , for the liberty of england , and the preservation of the same things amongst us ? and will not we goe up to the mount , & weep upon god to stand by them ? shall they shed their blood by sea and land , for that truth and doctrine , which is according to godlinesse , that should be deare to us beyond and above our lives ? and shall not we offer them the assistance , of our utmost intercessions ? what could we say to god ? or how could we satisfy our own conscience , in so cleare and crying an exigent , if we should , as nothing concerned in the quarrel , or it's consequences , forbeare to do this ? how will we make it appeare , that we prefer jerusalem to our chief joy , and are lovers of righteousnesse , on whose side soever it is found , or are really desirous to do all that is in our power , to prevent the bondage of the nation , and preserve our selves and our posterity , from being sold slaves to forraigne enemies and the exorbitant lust of our own court , if now , when there is no other work for us to do , we make it not our work , to lift up our heart with our hands unto god in the heavens , praying and pleading by all manner of prayer and supplication , either to reclaime our rulers , from these unrighteous and violent courses ; or to preserve our oppressed brethren , and appeare their protector , when deserted of all humane help ? we would take heed how we lay our selves aside from this innocent and christian concurrence . i doubt nothing but as the lord will write in most legible characters , and witnesse either sooner or later , high and hore displeasure , against all the contrivers of this war , and willing contributers of their assistance to it , and reckon them , vvho , if it vvere but by their vvords and vvishes , vvitnesse their concurrence , and shevv themselves enemies to our oppressed protestant friends , though they neither be guilty of that theiving basensse of caping , or a more formal conjunction this abominable war , adversaries to the reformed religion , through the world , and enemies to all righteousnesse amongst men , so , i am equally perswaded , they shall make themselves guilty of a detestable neutrality , and incurre the curse of not helping the lord against the mighty , vvho do not implore his aid for our oppressed brethren , and stirre not up themselves to pray , that he would appeare to plead a cause that is so much his own : let not the vain fancy of affection to the honour of the nation , when to the height of basenesse engaged in a vvar , or lothnesse to see our countrey-men put to shame , even vvhen it is impossible to appeare in this engagement and cover our shame , de murre or foreslovv us in this duety : it 's true , our nation ought to be deare unto us , the lives and honour of our countrey-men precious in our sight ; but we should be so much protestants , so much christians , as to acquiesce rather , that vve , our posterity , our name , and nation should be delete & perish from under the heavens of the lord , before the reformed religion , that great interest of christ in the world , by our successe be destroyed , or his declarative glory suffer an ecclipse . nay let us consult either reason or religion , and then , the thing which seemeth to demurre or dissvvade , will certainly drive us to the duety that is pressed : let us love our lord jesus christ so well , let us love the honour , prosperity and welfare of our nation so well , let us love the reput and renown of our countrey-men so well , as to pray , that his kingdome may come , and that the designes of these who in this engagement , are engaged against us , and our precious interests , may be defeat , and that their hands may not be able to performe their enterprise , and there is no more driven at or desired ; for , if the sword that is now drawn against the dutch , return victorious and drunk with their blood , it will not be put up , till the yoke be wreathed about our neck , and it have shed the blood of such , who are not so much beasts , as with a tamenesse to take it on ; and if we be deprived of , and out-live the lose of our onely treasure , religion and liberty , where then is the blessednesse we spoke of ? where then is the glory of our nation whereof we boasted ? happy is the man , who knoweth the times , and what israel hath to do , while it is the plague of many , that they are as asses couching under the burden : once for all , let us feare , and stand aloof from , yea in our place and station withstand , all these sinful combinations with such , as have turned aside unto their crooked vvayes , and designe and endeavour vvith so much vigour , the overturning of his vvork , lest god lead us forth vvith the vvorkers of iniquity : it 's true , he must have a church , and his interest must be preserved ; for the gates of hell cannot prevail against it ; yet if vve either join vvith these consederats against him , or forbeare to witnesse our desire of his abiding with us , by pleading with him , for the preservation of his low , his abandoned , born down , yea and betrayed interests ; deliverance shall come another way , for he is the god of salvations , against whom in this conjunction , we have lifted up the head and stretched out the hand ; but we , our interest , and whatsoever is deare and desirable to men , shall be destroyed and perish : but my brethren , as i hope for better things of you , yea for all things , vvhich may prove you to be lovers of our lord jesus christ in sincerity , of the churches abroad and of our nation 's interest , honour and liberty , though i thus speak ; so , i desire to beleeve , that not onely that poor people against whom our court , with the french are engaged ( the second part of herod and pilat's history ) shall be preserved , though they may be brought lovv ; but that the destruction of the poor remnant amongst our selves , vvhich ( that the actors may at once take away religion and liberty together with our lives ) is intended , shall be prevented ; for strong is the lord god who judgeth the enemies of his people and pleadeth the causes of their soul : let us therefore wait on him , and continue with him in these tentations , carrying in the duties of the present day , and amidst all the dangers which accompany , a faithful acquiting of our selves in our masters service , as knowing , that the adversaries of the lord shall be broken in pieces , out of heaven shall he thunder upon them : the lord shall judge the ends of the earth , he shall give strength unto his king ( the coming of whose kingdome , is now so much opposed by these kings , and destruction of whose subjects and people , is so manifestly designed and furiously driven by them ) and exalt the horne of his anointed , when he hath provided carpenters , to fray the horns of these , who rejoyce in a thing of nought , and have taken unto them horns , by their own strength , to push the inheritance of the lord : faxit deus et festinet , and then we have the desire of our hearts . finis . reader , though thou mayest sometime finde in perusing this paper , a letter redundant , as ane for an , or it may be the same letter twice , or a letter wanting , as of for off , lest , for least , or one letter sometime for another , as these for those , which will not make thee misse the sense , yet these few small following lapses thou mayest thus correct . p. . l. . ingenuousnesse . r. ingeniousnesse . p. . l. . sea . r. see p. . l. . do insist . r. do i insist . p. . l. . sujects . r. subjects . p. . l. . phohibit . r. prohibit . p. . l. ult . bebate . r. debate . p. . l. . del . of . ibid. l : . alter . r. altar . p. . l. . priciples . r. principles . p. . l. ult . furbishing . r. fourbishing . p. . l. . remembring . r. remembering . p. . l. . conjunction this . r. conjunction in this a plain record, or declaration shewing the origin, root and race of persecutors together with the nature, practice and end of that generation ... so their reward will be according to their work / [by] h.f. h. f. (henry fell) approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing f estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a plain record, or declaration shewing the origin, root and race of persecutors together with the nature, practice and end of that generation ... so their reward will be according to their work / [by] h.f. h. f. (henry fell) [i.e. ] p. printed for robert wilson, london : . numerous errors in pagination. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- england. persecution -- england. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - megan marion sampled and proofread - megan marion text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a plain record or declaration , shewing the original root and race of persecutors ; together with the nature , practice and end of that generation , in all ages past since the beginning ; as we may read in the scriptures of truth , from genesis to the revelation . but more particularly thus : the devil ( who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning , and the original of all sin ) is the father of all persecutors and persecution , which is the birth born after the flesh , which the egyptian woman ( the bond woman ) is the mother of , who is cast out with her son from being heir , whose end is destruction . christ jesus , the truth , the peace , the power of god ( which destroyes the devil , the original of all sin and unrighteousness ) he is the original and everlasting father of all the righteous , which is the birth born after the spirit : whose mother is jerusalem from above , which is free with her children , who are the righteous ( which are persecuted ) who will not persecute nor hate but love enemies . now these are abel's generation , who was a righteous man , whose sacrifice was accepted of god : him cain slew , who was wicked . and so all haters , murderers , persecutors about religion , worship and sacrifice , from the beginning even until this day , they are of cain's generation ( the persecvtor ) whose sacrifices god hath no respect unto , their hands are full of blood ; though they profess all the scriptures of truth , they are persecutors of the just ; and so their reward will be according to their work. h. f. gal. . he that is born after the fesh , persecutes him that is born after the spirit . london , printed for robert wilson , in martins le grand , . a plain record or declaration shewing the original root and race of persecutors ; together with the nature , practice and end of that generation , &c. never did any prosper who were persecutors of the righteous ; for when the devil went out of the truth , then did he snare and tempt others out of the truth , and their habitation : and being so , the state was lost , which was in the begining , wherein all things were blessed and good. and the devil , the original of all sin , is the father of persecutors and persecution , who is out of the truth in the whole world ( which was always blind ) that lyes in wickedness , from which foundation of the world hath the lamb been slain , the just have suffered and been persecuted , by them that have obeyed the devil , the author and original of all sin ; who hath entered into their minds , and defiled their minds , so that they have disobeyed the good in them , the just in them ; which is the cause of all the persecution in christendom , and all the persecution & ignorance in the whole world. and people disobeying the good that is in them , and the just ; and so obeying the bad in them , they are aliens in their minds and strangers to the life of god , and covenant of promise , and strangers to the image and likeness of god , the image of the devil being within them , and yet undefaced , and unsubdued . this is the cause of the enmity in the whole vvorld , and the cause of the enmity in them that do profess the scriptures ( both jews and christians ) being aliens from the life which they were in , which spake them forth , in which there is no unity , and subjection unto god , and to one another . so the devil was the first persecutor , the enemy of mankind , who is the power of death , the author of sin , which brings it forth ; which christ the truth , and prince of life destroys , for he ends all persecution . cain the second persecutor , who persecuted righteous abel , though he was a governour and built a city , god said , he was a vagabond and fugitive , and his brother's blood stopped the earth from yeelding its full strength . so that a persecutor corrupteth the earth , and all that be persecutors are of cain , vagabonds , to whom belongs the woe ; though they be never so great in the earth , the woe is to them if they be persecutors . the old world persecuted noah , righteous noah , with whom was god's covenant , who was a preacher of righteousness ; and god overthrew the old world for their filthiness , and wickedness , and ungodliness , who grieved him , ( and had corrupted the earth , and filled it with violence ) who were drowned ; and righteous noah in the ark was saved with eight persons : so there was the end of those persecutors . the sodomites were struck blind by the angel of the lord , who assaulted lot's house in sodom , and afterwards the lord consumed their city with fire . the caldeans were persecutors of faithful abraham , from among whom god brought him ; who denied his acquaintance , relations , and friends , and nation , and country , worship and fathers house , and went into a strange land to dwell ; and afterwards abraham's seed were strangers in the land of egypt , who by the egyptians were four hundred years afflicted and persecuted , but the lord did overthrow the egyptians in the red sea , and so destroyed those persecutors . ishmael the son of hagar , the bond-woman , did mock and persecute isaac , the son of sarah the free-woman , who was cast out of abraham's family , that he should not inherit with the righteous , because he was a persecutor . esau was a persecutor of jacob who fled from his face ; and he despised his birth-right , for a messe of pottage , and morsel of bread. and esau the persecutor because he hated his brother , therefore the lord said , i have hated esau , and laid his mountain desolate ( and jacob have i loved , who was blesseded of god ) and there is an end of that persecutor . nimrod and cain were two old hereticks , the one persecuted abel ; and the other was called the mighty hunter before the lord , who did begin to build babel , which god confounded ; and declared cain to be a vagabond ; so a persecutor is a vagabond and a fugitive . ioseph's brethren persecuted him , and sold him into egypt ; and pottiphar's wife slandered righteous joseph , yet neverthelesse the lord made him to prosper , and cleared his innocency . joseph's brethren were made to bow in the day of their poverty to their brother , whom they had sold and persecuted . pharaoh the king , that old persecutor , because he would not let the children of israel go , that they might worship god the lord destroyed him . and the egyptians persecuted the children of israel , though to them joseph had been a blessing , and they killed their children , and oppressed them by sore labour and taxes ; therefore the lord overthrew those persecutors , and drowned them in the sea ; and delivered his persecuted and oppressed people , by a mighty hand and outstretched arm ; so that there was an end of those oppressors and persecutors . and the children of israel persecuted moses , and were ready to stone him in the wilderness , and rebelled against him , and neither regarded his word , nor the lord , wherefore the lord said , they should not enter into his rest ; whose carcasses fell in the wilderness , and perished as pharaoh did in the sea with his host ; who regarded not the word of the lord , nor of moses , that bid him get him out of his sight . and so there was the end of those persecutors . sampson was betrayed by his dallilah and persecuted by the philistines , but the lord brought an end to his persecutors . therefore beware all ye that trust not in the living god , least you lose your strength , and be betrayed by your dallilah's . balaam was a persecutor , who loved the wages of unrighteousness , a deceive and a dissembler , in whose way many go ; but mark their ways and his , ( that go against the righteous seed ) the end was destruction , who went against the righteous seed , and life ; and there was the end of that persecutor . saul persecuted david when the evil spirit came upon him , and the spirit of the lord departed from him , and pursued him up and down , and hunted him like a partridge and a fly , but the lord overthrew that persecutor . absalom persecuted his father david , and sought after his life , to get the kingdom to himself ; and ahithophel was his counsellor , whose counsel god confounded and brought to nought , and the lord overthrew both him and absalom ; and so they fell into the pit which they had digged , and there was the end of those persecutors , sam. , . chapters . shimei one of saul's family , was a persecutor , who cursed king david , and flung stones at him , and cried out , come out thou bloody man , and thou man of belial , &c. sam. . , . now though david did pardon shimei , that he did not take away his life ; yet mark what came after , solomon his son caused him to be slain . see king. . . and there was an end of that persecutor . ioash the king , and his counsellors were persecutors , as ye may read ( chron. . ) what became of them , and what was their end that persecuted the prophets of the lord , and slew zechariah a prophet of god ( whom the king commanded to be stoned to death in the court of the house of the lord ) who in love warned them for their souls eternal good ; but to reproach they turned it , and made a mock of the prophets , and slighted the messengers of god ; and accounted of the spiritual men as mad-men , and called the prophets fools : but the uprightest of them is as sharp as a thorn-hedge , and the best of them as a bryar : among whom many of the prophets trembled , shook and quaked in sackcloath and ashes , and shewed several signs ; and if they came piping , or if they came with repentance to them , they did not regard : therefore the lord left them over to their own hearts lusts , to perish in their gain-sayings , as corah , dathan and abiram did , whom the earth opened , and swallowed up quick , numb . . therefore consider all ye persecutors upon the earth , and remember your examples that be gone before ; read the scriptures of truth , and see in whose paths and steps ye walk : for they who love enemies ( as christ commanded ) and keep brotherly love and fellowship , and esteem well of all men , they can hurt no creature upon the earth . the righteous hath alwayes suffered ( in the whole world ) and hath been persecuted unto death , upon the account that they have been the tares , the false prophets , and the deceivers : for which doing christ gave them no example , nor any command for all the persecution that hath been since the dayes of the apostles . though in the law they were not to spare their nearest relations , wife , brother or sister , that drew them from the law of god , and went to set up another god ; if he were a blasphemer or a false prophet , they were not to be spared , but to be put to death by the law of god : which law of god ( christ being put to death ) ended ; and he saith , love enemies . for the jews said ( who persecuted christ ) they had a law , by which , if any man said he was the son of god , was to dye , and to be put to death : therefore the people might say , as they say now , they were but subject to the higher powers . but mark the end of those blasphemers that persecuted the son of god to death , the prince of life . and mark the end of those persecutors that persecute christ where he is manifested in his members ; that visited not them in prison , and came not to them when they were sick , and cloathed them , not and fed them not : such he saith must go into everlasting punishment ; much more them that cast into prison shall receive the reward of persecutors . the children of israel were persecuted by the heathen , whom the lord overthrew . haman persecuted mordecai and the jews , and would have had them all put to death , and mordecai hanged ; because he feared god , and could not bow to proud haman . so the same thing that should have been done unto mordecai , befel haman , and so there was an end of that persecutor . ahab the king persecuted micaiah the prophet , and commanded that he should be cast into prison , and fed with bread and water , till he returned from the battel at ramoth-gilead , because he could not flatter him , and speak well of him , as the false prophets , the prophets of baal did ; so ahab the king was slain in the battel , and did not return in peace , according to micaiah's words . and there was an end of that persecutor . ieroboam the king , his hand withered which he put forth against the man of god , who cryed against the altar in bethel , and their idolatry there . see king. . rechab and baanah the sons of rimmon , did persecute and slay ishbosheth the son of saul , ( a righteous person ) in his own house upon his bed , and cut off his head , and brought it to king david , and looked for a reward ( for this their murder ) saying to david , they had killed his enemy , and avenged him upon saul and his seed . but david commanded his young-men , and they slew them , both rechab and baanah , and cut off their heads ; and that was their reward for their persecuting and killing a righteous person . iob's friends persecuted him , and reviled him : and see the end of them , that job was constrained to offer sacrifice for them , and make intercession to god for them , see job . and though people reade in the scriptures daily , yet they do not consider . the iews persecuted david ( who was of the royal seed ) of whom david said , let their children become vagabonds : and so they were , according to his prophecy ( and are at this day ) and their eyes blinded , and they bow down their backs alwayes . so be all the vagabonds and blood-shedders , whose eyes are blinded & backs bowed down , that be out of the life and power , which the jews went out of , and cain ; and so do all the christians ( so called ) and all people upon the earth , whose eyes are blinded , and they gone from the life of god in themselves . these let in the devil , the murderer and lyar , that went forth of the truth ; and so goes from the principle of life and dominion . these are the vagabonds and the persecutors , though they be never so rich in the earth , great kings , princes , or emperors , yet have not a habitation in god. a persecutor , his eye is blinded , his ear is stopped to the spirit of god in himself ; so wanders from the habitation in god : so a vagabond , he will corrupt the earth , and stain the earth , and fill it with violence . a fugitive that spills the blood of the innocent , he causeth the earth not to yeeld her strength . so here is the author of poverty and beggars , by whom the just and innocent alwayes suffer , against whom is god's wo ; and that is the end of all persecutors . iezebel and ahab were both persecutors of the prophets of the lord , and killers of them ; who painted her face , and thought to have been received and esteemed by her painting : but mark the end of those persecutors , whose blood the dogs licked ; in whose dayes the prophets wandered up and down in sheep-skins and goat-skins , and were in caves and dens of the earth , and were fed in them . and elisha the prophet in these dayes was fed by the ravens . therefore consider ye that delight in persecution , do not devise evil on your beds , flatter not your selves in your own eyes , lest your iniquities do become so loathsome and so hatefull , that you come to no change ; for shame will bring forth confusion and a fountain of lyes . plot not against the just , nor gnash not your teeth against them : cease from anger and wrath ; be patient , and fret not against the innocent , and the righteous . do you not reade of the great persecution , in the second psalm , the rage of the heathen , who imagined vain things . the kings of the earth took counsel together with the rulers ; against the lord , and against his anointed . will not the lord vex them in his wrath and sore displeasure , and laugh them to scorn because of their folly and madness ; and set his king upon his holy hill ? and so frustrate the ends all of the persecutors . the children of israel when they transgressed the law of god , they persecuted his prophet jeremiah , they put him in the stocks and in the dungeon ; who was persecuted by priests and princes ; and the lord suffered them to be carried away captive into babylon , and to put out their king's eyes , and to destroy his sons ; who in the day of their prosperity in their life-time hearkened to their priests , false prophets , and teachers , that smoothed them up , and cryed peace to them in their iniquities , and would not regard the prophets of the lord , but persecuted them ; and there was the end of those persecutors . and the children of israel , their princes and priests persecuted isaiah the prophet , and the children that were with him , were for signs and for wonders to both the houses of israel before their captivity : yet they would not regard neither signs , nor wonders , nor prophets , who afterwards were carried away captive : and there was the end of those persecutors . pashur the son of immer the priest ( who was also chief governor of the house of the lord ) did smite jeremiah , and put him in the stocks ; therefore did the lord tell him by the prophet jeremiah , that his name should not be pashur , but the lord had called him magor-missabib ; for the lord would make him a terror to himself and all his friends ; and they should fall by the sword of their enemies ; and that he should be carried captive to babylon , and dye there : and that was the end of that persecutor . and again , when jeremiah had spoken the words , which the lord had commanded him to speak to the children of israel , then the priests and the prophets , and all the people took him , saying , thou shalt surely dye ; because he prophesied in the name of the lord , and told them of the destruction of the temple . see jerem. chap. . in the children of israels captivity there had been persecutors of the prophets : ezekiel told them , their shepherds , teachers and prophets had caused them to erre , and had made havock of the people , and sold them for handfuls of barley , and pieces of bread ; and eaten the fat , and cloathed themselves with the wool : the lord would redeem them from their mouthes , whom he saith , are like foxes in the desart , which worry and devour the lambs , and they were made a prey upon who departed from iniquity . so let them see ( who regard not the lord nor his prophets ) the fruits of their persecution . daniel in the captivity of the children of israel , let them see their sins and their transgressions , who regarded neither the lord nor his prophets . and daniel was persecuted for praying to god , and cast into the lyons den. mark , did not god bring his persecutors into the den of lyons , who tore them to pieces , and daniel was delivered ? and the three children were persecuted for not worshipping nebuchadnezzar's golden image , and were cast into the fiery furnace , whom god delivered , and made their very persecutors to confesse that they were the servants of the most high god ; and those who cast them into the fiery furnace were slain ; which was a testimony against their cruelty and persecution . amos the herdsman , who was a prophet of the lord , was persecuted at the kings chappel , who told them the songs of their temple should be turned into howling . and they said that amos had conspired against the king , and bid him get him into the land of judah and prophesie . and amos told them of vyals and instruments of musick , and of their drinking wine in bowls , and how they stretched themselves upon costly beds , and of the seat of violence , and how they swallowed up the needy , and caused the poor to fall , and that they did not remember the afflictions of joseph , amos , , . chapters . but mark what the lord saith of them : are ye not as the children of the ethiopians unto me o israel , saith the lord ; and i will set mine eyes upon them for evil and not for good , &c. micah prophesied in the captivity , and let them see how their judges , their princes , heads and rulers of israel , who hate the good , and love the evil : who pluck off their skin from off them , and their flesh from their bones ; who also eat the flesh of my people , and flay their skin from off them , and they break their bones and chop them in pieces , as for the pot , and as flesh for the caldron . and thus saith the lord concerning the prophets that make the people to erre ; who bite with their teeth ; and cry peace , and he that putteth not into their mouthes , they even prepare war against him . therefore the lord told the priests and prophets , that they should not have a vision , and that they should not divine , and the sun should go down over the prophets , and the day should be dark over them . and their seers should be ashamed , and their diviners confounded , and sion for their sakes shouuld be plowed as a field , and jerusalem laid on heaps ; and this was their reward from the lord for their wickedness & persecution , who divined for money , and taught for hire , and judged for gifts & rewards ; they had no answer from god ; and this was the fruit of their persecution and persecutors , formality and blindness , whom the prophets had foretold how they had served god with their lips , but their hearts were removed far from him ; and how they would sacrifice , and offer , and cry the temple of the lord , and yet live in their abominations : which offerings and sacrifice god had no respect to more than cain's , whose hands were full of blood : and told them , their oblations , and sacrifices were no more to him , than to blesse an idol , and he that offered a sacrifice as he that cut off a doggs neck , or slew a man ; for they were persecutors . nahum , ioel , haggi , zachary , let the children of israel , ( the jews ) see their transgression ; and see how the judgements of the lord came upon them for their transgressions and persecution . the edomites who were the children of esau were persecutors of jacob and his seed , as ye may read in the prophecy of obadia , where the lord saith to edom , the pride of thine heart hath deceived thee , thou that dwellest in the clifts of the rocks , whose habitation is high , that saiest in thy heart , who shall bring me down to the ground ? how are the things of esau searched out ? how are his hidden things brought to light ? the mighty men of teman shall be dismayed , to the end that every one of mount esau may be cut off by slaughter . for thy violence against thy brother iacob , shame shall cover thee , and thou shalt be cut off for ever . shall not i in that day destroy the wise men out of edom , and the understanding out of mount esau ? because thou stoodest on the other side in the day that the strangers carried away israel captive , and forreigners entered into his gates , and cast lots upon jerusalem : even thou wast as one of them . but thou shouldest not have looked on thy brother in that day when he became a stranger , neither shouldest thou have rejoyced over the children of judah , in the day of their destruction , nor have spoken proudly in the day of their distresse , nor shouldest thou have entred into their gates , nor looked on their affliction , in the day of their calamity , nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity , nor shouldest thou have stood in the crosse way , to cut off those of his that did escape , nor delivered those that did remain . therefore as thou hast done , it shall be done unto thee , thy reward shall return upon thine own head , and thou shalt be as though thou hadst not been . so there was an end of edom the persecutor . herod persecuted john baptist to death , and caused his head to be cut off : he being voluptuous , and delighted in his daughters dancing , gave her in stead of the one half of his kingdom , the head of the just john baptist . but mark the end of that persecutor ; was he not eaten to death with worms ? and marke what became of him that persecuted , and proceeded against james , and killed him with a sword , and persecuted peter , and persecuted and killed the innocent children at bethlehem , in madness when they could not find the child jesus , who fled from the persecuting tyrant into egypt . and the pharisees told christ that he should go from thence , for herod would kill him : who answered and said , go , tell that fox , behold i cast out devils , and will heal still , to day and to morrow , and the third day i shall be perfected . and he took up a lamentation over jerusalem , and said , oh jerusalem , jerusalem , which killest the prophets and stonest them that were sent to thee , how often would i have gathered thy children , as a hen doth her chickens , and ye would not ? therefore is your house left unto you desolate , &c. there was the reward of their persecution . the iewes persecuted christ , who came of them according to the flesh , and mocked , and scoffed at him , and despised him , and blasphemed and said , he had a devil , and buffeted him , and smote him with a reed , and spit in his face , and crowned him with thorns , among whom at his birth he had no place but in the manger , in the stable . but mark the end of these persecutors , priests , professors and rulers . did not the lord bring the heathen upon them according to christs prophecy , and destroyed their citys and temple , and scattered them over all nations , and many of them were carryed captives into egypt . there is the end of all persecuting professors in the mouth and lipps without life and power . paul was a persecutor , and a yeelder to persecution , ( when steven was stoned , the witnesses layd down their cloaths at sauls feet ) to whom the lord shewed mercy : which in most of his epistles he confesseth , and his unworthinesse , that he should find mercy , seeing he persecuted . oh ye persecutors , consider therefore , and remember what a great thing it is to find mercy , as paul did , who confessed it to his very last , as you may read in his epistle to timothy . the iews persecuted steven to death , who was full of the holy ghost : but the jews who resisted it ( as their forefathers did ) they professed the words given forth by the holy ghost ; but mind their end : were they not destroyed when jerusalem was compassed about with armies , and was layd on heaps , and not one stone of the temple left upon another that should not be thrown down ? christ said , that his disciples should be persecuted from city to city , and scourged , and halled out of the synagogues , and carried before rulers , and cast into prison for his name sake ; which was fulfilled upon them according to christ's words . and he said , a day of vengeance should come , and told them they had persecuted zacharias , and killed him between the temple and the altar , and that the temple should be thrown down . and the true christians in the primitive times were no persecutors , but lovers of enemies , and tender of all men ; this was their doctrine and practice ; which is beyond jews , and heathens , and hypocritical christians , that are apostatized both from the life , doctrine , and practice of christ and the apostles in the primitive times . and the council threatned james and john , and beat them , and commanded them not to speak any more in the name of jesus . john gave forth the revelations , and was persecuted , and banished , and he prophesied of the beast , the false poophet , the dragon , and the false church should persecute , kill and destroy , and drink the blood of the saints and martyrs , and make war with the remnant of the seed of the woman ; and then establish the beasts worship , the dragons false church , wherein all nations should drink her cup , and so go on , until their sins should reach to heaven , and come into remembrance before god. and that god would in the end plague the whore , and burn her flesh with fire ; and take the beast and false prophet , the old dragon , and cast them alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone : and all that drink of the whores cup , and worship the beast , shall be tormented , and drink the cup of the indignation of the lord god almighty : and here is the end of those wicked persecutors . iudas the persecutor who betrayed his master , and kissed him , and sold him to the priests ( for thirty pieces of silver ) who thirsted after his blood , the blood of the innocent : but mark his end , with his company , with their swords and staves , he hanged himself . the iews persecuted paul up and down from place to place , after he came to receive the mercy ; which many now receive his words , but persecute his life : and after that he came to exercise his conscience , to keep it void of offence towards god and towards man ; then they did account paul an heretick , and a mover of sedition , and a pestilent fellow , and one who turned the world up-side down , and was accounted not fit to live upon the earth , when many of the jews and proselytes that feared god , followed paul and barnabas , who exhorted them to continue in the grace of god : but when the rest of the jews saw the people , they were full of envy , and spake against paul , and railed on them . and they stirred up certain devout women , and chief men of the city , and raised persecution against paul and barnabas , and expelled them out of their coasts : but they shook off the dust of their feet , as a witness against these persecutors . forty of the jews bound themselves with an oath , and conspired together with the priests and council , to kill paul ; but were prevented by the chief captain . again , when the jews saw paul in the temple , they moved all the people , and laid hands on him , crying , men of israel , help : this is the man that teacheth all men every-where , against the people and the law , and this place . moreover , he hath brought grecians into the temple , and hath polluted this holy place . then all the city was moved , and the people ran together , and they took paul , and drew him out of the temple to kill him , but were prevented by the chief captain , who rescued him out of their hands ; and they cryed against him , away with such a fellow from the earth , for it is not meet that he should live . so paul found more favour from the romans , who were heathen , than from his own nation , who were jews , and the greatest professors then in the world. and ananias the high-priest , and the elders , and tertullus the orator , accused paul unto felix the governour , and told him , that they had found paul a pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition among all the jews throughout the world , and a chief maintainer of the sect of the nazarites , and would have polluted the temple : and afterwards the high-priests , and the chief of the jews appeared before festus against paul , and would have had him sent him to jerusalem ; and they laid wait by the way to have killed him . but ye may read what was the end of all these bloody persecutors , who drew nigh unto god with their lips , and with their mouthes honoured him , but removed their hearts far off from him . so the lip-servers , will-worshippers will persecute now ( as the jews did of old ) but they that worship god in spirit and in truth ( which the devil is out of ) cannot persecute ; for they can love enemies , and bless those that curse them , and pray for them that persecute them , and do good for evil ; so these are the true christians and followers of christ . the word of the lord god to you all . let no one persecute about church , worship , religion , maintenance and ministry , that profess themselves to be christians : for christ gives no such command nor example , but to love enemies ; for he rebuked his disciples , who would have had fire come down from heaven on them who would not receive them , and were contrary-minded to them ( as the prophet had done : ) therefore christ , who fulfilled the law and the prophets , rebuked their zeal , and told them , he came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them . therefore ye that are persecutors and destroyers of mens lives , ye are not in christ's mind , life nor doctrine ; nor the spiritual men that wrestle with spiritual weapons : but you are carnal , of which ( as i said before ) the devil was the author , and the beginner of : and the lamb and the saints , and the bride and his wife shall have the victory ; the first and the last shall reign , wherein alpha and omega shall be known ( over the persecutors ) the begining and the end ; the lamb of god's kingdom ; the first and the last . so now in these last days the prophets of the lord have warned the turk , warned the pope , and warned most of the kings in christendom , of their persecution ; whose field lies like a field of blood , who staines the earth with it , that the inhabiters of it are vagabonds , like cain that killed the righteous ; so that the earth doth not yeeld her full strength : therefore are there so many beggars , desolate people in poverty among them . peter and jude prophesied , and saw a persecuting cain ( that would kill about religion ) was getting up among the christians before their decease , which would be preachers or teachers ; who were by the apostles judged . john in the revelations saw iezebel that would be a prophet and a teacher among the churches , which iezebel was a persecuter and a drinker of the blood of the saints and prophets ; whom john rebuked , and such as set her up and followed her . therefore , o consider ! have not persecutors been set up by a law since the apostles dayes , and the doctrine of christ trampled under foot , which teacheth to love enemies , and overcome evil with good ? and have you not read in heb. . how they persecuted the saints , and spoiled the saints goods ; and how they wandered in sheep-skins and goat-skins , of whom the world was not worthy ; who lived in dens and caves of the earth . and again he saith , i saw the beast and the kings of the earth , and their armies gathered together , to make war against him that sate upon the white horse , who was cloathed with a vesture dipt in blood ( the lord jesus christ ) whose name was called the word of god ; and against his army ( the saints that were with him ) and the beast was taken , and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him , with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast , and them that worshipped his image . these both were cast alive into the lake of fire , burning with brimstone . and the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the white horse , which proceeded out of his mouth : and all the fowls of the aire were filled with their flesh . and this was the end of those persecutors . the ministers of unrighteousness , and false apostles , and messengers of satan , and his ministers were the persecutors of the righteous like their father the devil , and walked in his steps ; as ye may read in the corinthians , but their end was according to their works . the antichrists and wolves which got the sheeps clothing , who were the deceivers , these were the persecutors and worriers of the lambs of christ ; as we may read , matth. . . and you may see the jews that killed the lord jesus christ , and persecuted the church : now these persecutors pleased not god , who afterwards overthrew them , thes . . and it was said unto saul , saul why persecutest thou me ? i am jesus whom thou persecutest , it is in vain for thee , &c. when that saul was going with his packet of letters ( from the high priest and scribes ) to persecute the saints . and paul afterwards confessed , that he was a persecutor of the church , when as touching the righteousness of the law , he was blameless , which law did command carnal weapons , mark that : and so he thought he had done god good service in persecuting those that were contrary minded : but yet saith he , through the grace of god i found mercy , because i did it ignorantly , phil. . david was often persecuted of his enemies without a cause , and he said , they persecuted the poor and needy . and he prayed unto the lord to deliver him from them that persecuted him , and to stop the way of them that persecuted him , psal . . the true christians ( who follow christ ) cannot revile them that persecute them ; according to christ's doctrine , matth. . but the persecutors never follow christ in their persecution , for his doctrine is to pray for them that do persecute . and christ told his disciples , that they should be persecuted from city to city . and those persecutors are such as are born after the flesh ; and are the makers of sects . and the wisdom of god saith , behold i send you prophets and apostles , and some of them they shall persecute and kill , that all the blood that have been shed from the foundation of the vvorld may be required of this generation . of that persecuting birth born of the flesh , that cannot love enemies . and christ saith , if they persecute me , they will also persecute you that keep my sayings . and they will not keep your sayings , that do not keep christ's , ( who saith , love enemies . ) and therefore are we persecuted , because we keep christ's sayings and commands , who is the redeemer and saviour , who saith , swear not at all , &c. steven told the jews when they did persecute and stone him to death , that they always resisted the holy ghost , and that their fathers had been persecutors of the prophets . and paul after he was converted , told the jews and heathens , how he had been exceeding mad against the christians , and had persecuted that vvay , christ the light ; and now he was sent to turn people from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god. and how he had persecuted the church of god , and thought he did god good service ; and was exceeding envious against them , and injurious ? a fanatick spirit . yet afterwards he saith , that he himself was persecuted but not forsaken , for the lord was with him ; when he exercised himself to keep his conscience void of offence towards god , and towards man ; then those persecuted him , and were against him and forsook him , who before were for him ; but the lord did not forsake him , but was with him , cor. . now here is the two births , paul was persecuted when he was born of the spirit , but when he was of the flesh he was a persecutor . now they that will live godly in christ jesus , must suffer persecution by the ungodly , who are , and ever were the persecutors , and unprofitable talkers , tim. . and the apostle saith , he was in necessities , and in persecution , and affliction , and endured stripes , hunger and nakedness : and again he saith , neither persecution , nor famine , nor tribulation , nor distresse , should separate them from the love of god : and for christ's sake they were killed all the day long , and were accounted as sheep for the slaughter , and through christ they were more than conquerors over all those persecutors . so he that is born of the spirit is to suffer persecution by the birth born after the flesh : and not again to persecute , and jeremiah saith , who was persecuted of the jews : all their persecutors ovetook them ( when god brought the heathen upon them ) which were swifter than an eagle from heaven : and this came upon jeremiah's persecutors , who prayed to the lord to revenge him of his persecutors , jer. . and the apostle speaks of some that had been accounted christians amongst them that were doggs : that after a time turned again and lickt up the vomit , ( as many do now , and these doggs were greedy and hungry persecutors , and devourers , that lick up their own vomit ) and will not feed upon the bread that comes down from heaven , christ jesus . and some that went under the name of christians , after that they were washed did run into the mire again . so consider this ye who are not heirs of god and elect before the world began , see if ye be not of the doggs and swine renting , and tearing , and in the mire , and licking up your own vomit . and the vvoman , the true church , was persecuted , which brought forth the man child . sea rev. . and the first-born , who is born after the flesh , persecuted him that was born after the spirit , gal. . for he that is born after the flesh is a persecutor , though he may professe all the scriptures , church-worship , and ministry , yet he is a persecutor . queen mary persecuted the tender vines and budds , and plants as they sprang up ; whose end and dayes the lord shortned : and woeful and miserable was the end of many of those bishops and bloody tyrants , which in her dayes were the greatest persecutors . as ye may read in foxe's monuments . and also , we warned the long-parliament of their persecution , who heard not , nor regarded the prophets of the lord ; who at the last were turned out as unfit for his use . we warned oliver protector , in whose dominions there was persecution almost in every place , who would not here and consider as he ought to have done ; and so his days also were shortned . we warned other parliaments of their persecution , and to stop and limit persecutors . we warned richard cromwel of persecution and persecutors , to stop and limit them . we warned the committee of safety ( so called ) of the plagues and judgements of god that were coming upon their heads : and of the blood of the innocent in the nation that lay shed , by persecutors , in goals , prisons , and houses of correction ; and mens lives and estates were taken from them by men in tyranny and persecution ; yet great talking and professing of god and christ with the lipps , but out of his life and doctrine . last of all we have warned charles the king who hath his day , and all his officers and magistrates under him , by whom many of the innocent are cast into goals , lying on straw in dungeons , some whereof are sick and weak , and some dead , and wives and children , and necessary things denyed them : therefore consider these things for this is the day now of your tryal . all you that do persecute about religion , church , vvorship , ministry , sacrifice and offerings , are no more respected of god than cain was , neither hath god any more regard to your services than he had to his . h. f. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pet. . . gen. . gen. . pet. . . numb . . mich. . . mat. . king. . sam. psa . . . ezek. . dan. . mich. . act. . luk. . act. . acts , . chap. act. . . luk. . john . act. . . a treatise of civil power in ecclesiastical causes shewing that it is not lawfull for any power on earth to compell in matters of religion / the author, j.m. milton, john, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing m ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing m estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a treatise of civil power in ecclesiastical causes shewing that it is not lawfull for any power on earth to compell in matters of religion / the author, j.m. milton, john, - . [ ], p. printed by tho. newcomb, london : . address "to the parliament of the commonwealth of england" signed: john milton. first ed. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in huntington library. eng church and state. freedom of religion. a r (wing m ). civilwar no a treatise of civil power in ecclesiastical causes: shewing that it is not lawfull for any power on earth to compell in matters of religion. milton, john b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a treatise of civil power in ecclesiastical causes shewing that it is not lawfull for any power on earth to compell in matters of religion . the author j. m. london , printed by tho. newcomb anno . to the parlament of the commonwealth of england with the dominions therof . i have prepar'd supream councel , against the much expected time of your sitting , this treatise ; which , though to all christian magistrates equally belonging , and therfore to have bin written in the common language of christendom , natural dutie and affection hath confin'd , and dedicated first to my own nation : and in a season wherin the timely reading therof , to the easier accomplishment of your great work , may save you much labor and interruption : of two parts usually propos'd , civil and ecclesiastical , recommending civil only to your proper care , ecclesiastical to them only from whom it takes both that name and nature . yet not for this cause only do i require or trust to finde acceptance , but in a twofold respect besides : first as bringing cleer evidence of scripture and protestant maxims to the parlament of england , who in all thir late acts , upon occasion , have professd to assert only the true protestant christian religion , as it is containd in the holy scriptures : next , in regard that your power being but for a time , and having in your selves a christian libertie of your own , which at one time or other may be oppressd , therof truly sensible , it will concern you while you are in power , so to regard other mens consciences , as you would your own should be regarded in the power of others ; and to consider that any law against conscience is alike in force against any conscience , and so may one way or other justly redound upon your selves . one advantage i make no doubt of , that i shall write to many eminent persons of your number , alreadie perfet and resolvd in this important article of christianitie . some of whom i remember to have heard often for several years , at a councel next in autoritie to your own , so well joining religion with civil prudence , and yet so well distinguishing the different power of either , and this not only voting , but frequently reasoning why it should be so , that if any there present had bin before of an opinion contrary , he might doubtless have departed thence a convert in that point , and have confessd , that then both commonwealth and religion will at length , if ever , flourish in christendom , when either they who govern discern between civil and religious , or they only who so discern shall be admitted to govern . till then nothing but troubles , persecutions , commotions can be expected ; the inward decay of true religion among our selves , and the utter overthrow at last by a common enemy . of civil libertie i have written heretofore by the appointment , and not without the approbation of civil power : of christian liberty i write now ; which others long since having don with all freedom under heathen emperors , i should do wrong to suspect , that i now shall with less under christian governors , and such especially as profess openly thir defence of christian libertie ; although i write this not otherwise appointed or induc'd then by an inward perswasion of the christian dutie which i may usefully discharge herin to the common lord and master of us all , and the certain hope of his approbation , first and chiefest to be sought : in the hand of whose providence i remain , praying all success and good event on your publick councels to the defence of true religion and our civil rights . john milton . a treatise of civil power in ecclesiastical causes . two things there be which have bin ever found working much mischief to the church of god , and the advancement of truth ; force on the one side restraining , and hire on the other side corrupting the teachers thereof . few ages have bin since the ascension of our saviour , wherin the one of these two , or both together have not prevaild . it can be at no time therfore unseasonable to speak of these things ; since by them the church is either in continual detriment and oppression , or in continual danger . the former shall be at this time my argument ; the latter as i shall finde god disposing me , and opportunity inviting . what i argue , shall be drawn from the scripture only ; and therin from true fundamental principles of the gospel ; to all knowing christians undeniable . and if the governors of this common-wealth since the rooting out of prelats have made least use of force in religion , and most have favord christian liberty of any in this iland before them since the first preaching of the gospel , for which we are not to forget our thanks to god , and their due praise , they may , i doubt not , in this treatise finde that which not only will confirm them to defend still the christian liberty which we enjoy , but will incite them also to enlarge it , if in aught they yet straiten it . to them who perhaps herafter , less experienc'd in religion , may come to govern or give us laws , this or other such , if they please , may be a timely instruction : however to the truth it will be at all times no unneedfull testimonie ; at least some discharge of that general dutie which no christian but according to what he hath receivd , knows is requir'd of him if he have aught more conducing to the advancement of religion then what is usually endeavourd , freely to impart it . it will require no great labor of exposition to unfold what is here meant by matters of religion ; being as soon apprehended as defin'd , such things as belong chiefly to the knowledge and service of god : and are either above the reach and light of nature without revelation from above , and therfore liable to be variously understood by humane reason , or such things as are enjoind or forbidden by divine precept , which els by the light of reason would seem indifferent to be don or not don ; and so likewise must needs appeer to everie man as the precept is understood . whence i here mean by conscience or religion , that full perswasion whereby we are assur'd that our beleef and practise , as far as we are able to apprehend and probably make appeer , is according to the will of god & his holy spirit within us , which we ought to follow much rather then any law of man , as not only his word every where bids us , but the very dictate of reason tells us . act. . . whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken to you more then to god , judge ye . that for beleef or practise in religion according to this conscientious perswasion no man ought be punishd or molested by any outward force on earth whatsoever , i distrust not , through gods implor'd assistance , to make plane by these following arguments . first it cannot be deni'd , being the main foundation of our protestant religion , that we of these ages , having no other divine rule or autoritie from without us warrantable to one another as a common ground but the holy scripture , and no other within us but the illumination of the holy spirit so interpreting that scripture as warrantable only to our selves and to such whose consciences we can so perswade , can have no other ground in matters of religion but only from the scriptures . and these being not possible to be understood without this divine illumination , which no man can know at all times to be in himself , much less to be at any time for certain in any other , it follows cleerly , that no man or body of men in these times can be the infallible judges or determiners in matters of religion to any other mens consciences but thir own . and therfore those beroeans are commended , act. . , who after the preaching even of s. paul , searchd the scriptures daily , whether those things were so . nor did they more then what god himself in many places commands us by the same apostle , to search , to try , to judge of these things our selves : and gives us reason also , gal. . , . let every man prove his own work , and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone , and not in another : for every man shall bear his own burden . if then we count it so ignorant and irreligious in the papist to think himself dischargd in gods account , beleeving only as the church beleevs , how much greater condemnation will it be to the protestant his condemner , to think himself justified , beleeving only as the state beleevs ? with good cause therfore it is the general consent of all sound protestant writers , that neither traditions , councels nor canons of any visibie church , much less edicts of any magistrate or civil session , but the scripture only can be the final judge or rule in matters of religion , and that only in the conscience of every christian to himself . which protestation made by the first publick reformers of our religion against the imperial edicts of charls the fifth , imposing church-traditions without scripture , gave first beginning to the name of protestant ; and with that name hath ever bin receivd this doctrine , which preferrs the scripture before the church , and acknowledges none but the scripture sole interpreter of it self to the conscience . for if the church be not sufficient to be implicitly beleevd , as we hold it is not , what can there els be nam'd of more autoritie then the church but the conscience ; then which god only is greater , ioh. . ? but if any man shall pretend , that the scripture judges to his conscience for other men , he makes himself greater not only then the church , but also then the scripture , then the consciences of other men ; a presumption too high for any mortal ; since every true christian able to give a reason of his faith , hath the word of god before him , the promisd holy spirit , and the minde of christ within him , cor. . ; a much better and safer guide of conscience , which as far as concerns himself he may far more certainly know then any outward rule impos'd upon him by others whom he inwardly neither knows nor can know ; at least knows nothing of them more sure then this one thing , that they cannot be his judges in religion . cor. . . the spiritual man judgeth all things , but he himself is judgd of no man . chiefly for this cause do all true protestants account the pope antichrist , for that he assumes to himself this infallibilitie over both the conscience and the scripture ; siting in the temple of god , as it were opposite to god , and exalting himself above all that is called god , or is worshipd , thess. . . that is to say not only above all judges and magistrates , who though they be calld gods , are far beneath infallible , but also above god himself , by giving law both to the scripture , to the conscience , and to the spirit it self of god within us . when as we finde , iames . , there is one lawgiver , who is able to save and to destroy : who art thou that judgest another ? that christ is the only lawgiver of his church and that it is here meant in religious matters , no well grounded christian will deny . thus also s. paul , rom. . . who art thou that judgest the servant of another ? to his own lord he standeth or falleth : but he shall stand ; for god is able to make him stand . as therfore of one beyond expression bold and presumptuous , both these apostles demand , who art thou that presum'st to impose other law or judgment in religion then the only lawgiver and judge christ , who only can save and can destroy , gives to the conscience ? and the forecited place to the thessalonians by compar'd effects resolvs us , that be he or they who or wherever they be or can be , they are of far less autoritie then the church , whom in these things as protestants they receive not , and yet no less antichrist in this main point of antichristianism , no less a pope or popedom then he at rome , if not much more ; by setting up supream interpreters of scripture either those doctors whom they follow , or , which is far worse , themselves as a civil papacie assuming unaccountable supremacie to themselves not in civil only but ecclesiastical causes . seeing then that in matters of religion , as hath been prov'd , none can judge or determin here on earth , no not church-governors themselves against the consciences of other beleevers , my inference is , or rather not mine but our saviours own , that in those matters they neither can command nor use constraint ; lest they run rashly on a pernicious consequence , forewarnd in that parable mat. . from the to the verse : least while ye gather up the tares , ye root up also the wheat with them . let both grow together until the harvest : and in the time of harvest i will say to the reapers , gather ye together first the tares &c. whereby he declares that this work neither his own ministers nor any els can discerningly anough or judgingly perform without his own immediat direction , in his own fit season ; and that they ought till then not to attempt it . which is further confirmd cor. . . not that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy . if apostles had no dominion or constraining power over faith or conscience , much less have ordinary ministers . pet. . , . feed the flock of god not by constraint &c. neither as being lords over gods heritage . but some will object , that this overthrows all church-discipline , all censure of errors , if no man can determin . my answer is , that what they hear is plane scripture ; which forbids not church-sentence or determining , but as it ends in violence upon the conscience unconvinc'd . let who so will interpret or determin , so it be according to true church-discipline ; which is exercis'd on them only who have willingly joind themselves in that covnant of union , and proceeds only to a separation from the rest , proceeds never to any corporal inforcement or forfeture of monie ; which in spiritual things are the two arms of antichrist , not of the true church ; the one being an inquisition , the other no better then a temporal indulgence of sin for monie , whether by the church exacted or by the magistrate ; both the one and the other a temporal satisfaction for what christ hath satisfied eternally ; a popish commuting of penaltie , corporal for spiritual ; a satisfaction to man especially to the magistrate , for what and to whom we owe none : these and more are the injustices of force and fining in religion , besides what i most insist on , the violation of gods express commandment in the gospel , as hath bin shewn . thus then if church-governors cannot use force in religion , though but for this reason , because they cannot infallibly determin to the conscience without convincement , much less have civil magistrates autoritie to use force where they can much less judge ; unless they mean only to be the civil executioners of them who have no civil power to give them such commission , no nor yet ecclesiastical to any force or violence in religion . to summe up all in brief , if we must beleeve as the magistrate appoints , why not rather as the church ? if not as either without convincement , how can force be lawfull ? but some are ready to cry out , what shall then be don to blasphemie ? them i would first exhort not thus to terrifie and pose the people with a greek word : but to teach them better what it is ; being a most usual and common word in that language to signifie any slander , any malitious or evil speaking , whether against god or man or any thing to good belonging : blasphemie or evil speaking against god malitiously , is far from conscience in religion ; according to that of marc . . there is none who doth a powerfull work in my name , and can likely speak evil of me . if this suffice not , i referre them to that prudent and well deliberated act august . ; where the parlament defines blasphemie against god , as far as it is a crime belonging to civil judicature , pleniùs ac meliùs chrysippo & crantore ; in plane english more warily , more judiciously , more orthodoxally then twice thir number of divines have don in many a prolix volume : although in all likelihood they whose whole studie and profession these things are should be most intelligent and authentic therin , as they are for the most part , yet neither they nor these unnerring always or infallible . but we shall not carrie it thus ; another greek apparition stands in our way , heresie and heretic ; in like manner also rail'd at to the people as in a tongue unknown . they should first interpret to them , that heresie , by what it signifies in that language , is no word of evil note ; meaning only the choise or following of any opinion good or bad in religion or any other learning : and thus not only in heathen authors , but in the new testament it self without censure or blame . acts . . certain of the heresie of the pharises which beleevd . and . . after the exactest heresie of our religion i livd a pharise . in which sense presbyterian or independent may without reproach be calld a heresie . where it is mentiond with blame , it seems to differ little from schism cor. . , . i hear that there be schisms among you &c. for there must also heresies be among you though some who write of heresie after their own heads , would make it far worse then schism ; when as on the contrarie , schism signifies division , and in the worst sense ; heresie , choise only of one opinion before another , which may bee without discord . in apostolic times therfore ere the scripture was written , heresie was a doctrin maintaind against the doctrin by them deliverd : which in these times can be no otherwise defin'd then a doctrin maintaind against the light , which we now only have , of the scripture . seeing therfore that no man , no synod , no session of men , though calld the church , can judge definitively the sense of scripture to another mans conscience , which is well known to be a general maxim of the protestant religion , it follows planely , that he who holds in religion that beleef or those opinions which to his conscience and utmost understanding appeer with most evidence or probabilitie in the scripture , though to others he seem erroneous , can no more be justly censur'd for a heretic then his censurers ; who do but the same thing themselves while they censure him for so doing . for ask them , or any protestant , which hath most autoritie , the church or the scripture ? they will answer , doubtless , that the scripture : and what hath most autoritie , that no doubt but they will confess is to be followd . he then who to his best apprehension follows the scripture , though against any point of doctrine by the whole church receivd , is not the heretic ; but he who follows the church against his conscience and perswasion grounded on the scripture . to make this yet more undeniable , i shall only borrow a plane similie , the same which our own writers , when they would demonstrate planest that we rightly preferre the scripture before the church , use frequently against the papist in this manner . as the samaritans beleevd christ , first for the womans word , but next and much rather for his own , so we the scripture ; first on the churches word , but afterwards and much more for its own , as the word of god ; yea the church it self we beleeve then for the scripture . the inference of it self follows : if by the protestant doctrine we beleeve the scripture not for the churches saying , but for its own as the word of god , then ought we to beleeve what in our conscience we apprehend the scripture to say , though the visible church with all her doctors gainsay ; and being taught to beleeve them only for the scripture , they who so do are not heretics , but the best protestants : and by their opinions , whatever they be , can hurt no protestant , whose rule is not to receive them but from the scripture : which to interpret convincingly to his own conscience none is able but himself guided by the holy spirit ; and not so guided , none then he to himself can be a worse deceiver . to protestants therfore whose common rule and touchstone is the scripture , nothing can with more conscience , more equitie , nothing more protestantly can be permitted then a free and lawful debate at all times by writing , conference or disputation of what opinion soever , disputable by scripture : concluding , that no man in religion is properly a heretic at this day , but he who maintains traditions or opinions not probable by scripture ; who , for aught i know , is the papist only ; he the only heretic , who counts all heretics but himself . such as these , indeed , were capitally punishd by the law of moses , as the only true heretics , idolaters , plane and open deserters of god and his known law : but in the gospel such are punishd by excommunion only . tit. . . an heretic , after the first and second admonition , reject . but they who think not this heavie anough and understand not that dreadfull aw and spiritual efficacie which the apostle hath expressd so highly to be in church-discipline , cor. . of which anon , and think weakly that the church of god cannot long subsist but in a bodilie fear , for want of other prooff will needs wrest that place of s. paul rom. . to set up civil inquisition , and give power to the magistrate both of civil judgment and punishment in causes ecclesiastical . but let us see with what strength of argument . let every soul be subject to the higher powers . first , how prove they that the apostle means other powers then such as they to whom he writes were then under ; who medld not at all in ecclesiastical causes , unless as tyrants and persecuters ; and from them , i hope , they will not derive either the right of magistrates to judge in spiritual things , or the dutie of such our obedience . how prove they next , that he intitles them here to spiritual causes , from whom he witheld , as much as in him lay , the judging of civil ; cor. . , &c. if he himself appeald to cesar , it was to judge his innocence , not his religion . for rulers are not a terror to good works , but to the evil . then are they not a terror to conscience , which is the rule or judge of good works grounded on the scripture . but heresie , they say , is reck'nd among evil works gal. . : as if all evil works were to be punishd by the magistrate ; wherof this place , thir own citation , reck'ns up besides heresie a sufficient number to confute them ; uncleanness , wantonness , enmitie , strife , emulations , animosities , contentions , envyings ; all which are far more manifest to be judgd by him then heresie , as they define it ; and yet i suppose they will not subject these evil works nor many more such like to his cognisance and punishment . wilt thou then not be affraid of the power ? do that which is good and thou shalt have praise of the same . this shews that religious matters are not here meant ; wherin from the power here spoken of they could have no praise . for he is the minister of god to thee for good . true ; but in that office and to that end and by those means which in this place must be cleerly found , if from this place they intend to argue . and how for thy good by forcing , oppressing and insnaring thy conscience ? many are the ministers of god , and thir offices no less different then many ; none more different then state and church-government . who seeks to govern both must needs be worse then any lord prelat or church-pluralist : for he in his own facultie and profession , the other not in his own and for the most part not throughly understood makes himself supream lord or pope of the church as far as his civil jurisdiction stretches , and all the ministers of god therin , his ministers , or his curates rather in the function onely , not in the government : while he himself assumes to rule by civil power things to be rul'd only by spiritual : when as this very chapter v. appointing him his peculiar office , which requires utmost attendance , forbids him this worse then church-plurality from that full and waightie charge , wherin alone he is the minister of god , attending continually on this very thing . to little purpose will they here instance moses , who did all by immediate divine direction , no nor yet asa , iehosaphat , or iosia , who both might when they pleasd receive answer from god , and had a commonwealth by him deliverd them , incorporated with a national church exercis'd more in bodily then in spiritual worship , so as that the church might be calld a commonwealth and the whole commonwealth a church : nothing of which can be said of christianitie , deliverd without the help of magistrates , yea in the midst of thir opposition ; how little then with any reference to them or mention of them , save onely of our obedience to thir civil laws , as they countnance good and deterr evil : which is the proper work of the magistrate , following in the same verse , and shews distinctly wherin he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath on him that doth evil . but we must first know who it is that doth evil : the heretic they say among the first . let it be known then certainly who is a heretic : and that he who holds opinions in religion professdly from tradition or his own inventions and not from scipture but rather against it , is the only heretic ; and yet though such , not alwaies punishable by the magistrate , unless he do evil against a a civil law , properly so calld , hath been already prov'd without need of repetition . but if thou do that which is evil , be affraid . to do by scripture and the gospel according to conscience is not to do evil ; if we therof ought not to be affraid , he ought not by his judging to give cause . causes therfore of religion are not here meant . for he beareth not the sword in vain . yes altogether in vain , if it smite he knows not what ; if that for heresie which not the church it self , much less he , can determine absolutely to be so ; if truth for error , being himself so often fallible , he bears the sword not in vain only , but unjustly and to evil . be subject not only for wrath , but for conscience sake : how for conscience sake against conscience ? by all these reasons it appeers planely that the apostle in this place gives no judgment or coercive power to magistrates , neither to those then nor these now in matters of religion ; and exhorts us no otherwise then he exhorted those romans . it hath now twice befaln me to assert , through gods assistance , this most wrested and vexd place of scripture ; heretofore against salmasius and regal tyranie over the state ; now against erastus and state-tyranie over the church . if from such uncertain or rather such improbable grounds as these they endue magistracie with spiritual judgment , they may as well invest him in the same spiritual kinde with power of utmost punishment , excommunication ; and then turn spiritual into corporal , as no worse authors did then chrysostom , ierom and austin , whom erasmus and others in thir notes on the new testament have cited to interpret that cutting off which s. paul wishd to them who had brought back the galatians to circumcision , no less then the amercement of thir whole virilitie ; and grotius addes that this concising punishment of circumcisers became a penal law therupon among the visigothes : a dangerous example of beginning in the spirit to end so in the flesh : wheras that cutting off much likelier seems meant a cutting off from the church , not unusually so termd in scripture , and a zealous imprecation , not a command . but i have mentiond this passage to shew how absurd they often prove who have not learnd to distinguish rightly between civil power and ecclesiastical . how many persecutions then , imprisonments , banishments , penalties and stripes ; how much bloodshed have the forcers of conscience to answer for , and protestants rather then papists ! for the papist , judging by his principles , punishes them who beleeve not as the church beleevs though against the scripture : but the protestant , teaching every one to beleeve the scripture though against the church , counts heretical and persecutes , against his own principles , them who in any particular so beleeve as he in general teaches them ; them who most honor and beleeve divine scripture , but not against it any humane interpretation though universal ; them who interpret scripture only to themselves , which by his own position none but they to themselves can interpret ; them who use the scripture no otherwise by his own doctrine to thir edification , then he himself uses it to thir punishing : and so whom his doctrine acknowledges a true beleever , his discipline persecutes as a heretic . the papist exacts our beleef as to the church due above scripture ; and by the church , which is the whole people of god , understands the pope , the general councels prelatical only and the surnam'd fathers : but the forcing protestant though he deny such beleef to any church whatsoever , yet takes it to himself and his teachers , of far less autoritie then to be calld the church and above scripture beleevd : which renders his practise both contrarie to his beleef , and far worse then that beleef which he condemns in the papist . by all which well considerd , the more he professes to be a true protestant , the more he hath to answer for his persecuting then a papist . no protestant therfore of what sect soever following scripture only , which is the common sect wherin they all agree , and the granted rule of everie mans conscience to himself , ought , by the common doctrine of protestants , to be forc'd or molested for religion . but as for poperie and idolatrie , why they also may not hence plead to be tolerated , i have much less to say . their religion the more considerd , the less can be acknowledgd a religion ; but a roman principalitie rather , endevouring to keep up her old universal dominion under a new name and meer shaddow of a catholic religion ; being indeed more rightly nam'd a catholic heresie against the scripture ; supported mainly by a civil , and , except in rome , by a forein power : justly therfore to be suspected , not tolerated by the magistrate of another countrey . besides , of an implicit faith , which they profess , the conscience also becoms implicit ; and so by voluntarie servitude to mans law , forfets her christian libertie . who then can plead for such a conscience , as being implicitly enthrald to man instead of god , almost becoms no conscience , as the will not free , becoms no will . nevertheless if they ought not to be tolerated , it is for just reason of state more then of religion ; which they who force , though professing to be protestants , deserve as little to be tolerated themselves , being no less guiltie of poperie in the most popish point . lastly , for idolatrie , who knows it not to be evidently against all scripture both of the old and new testament , and therfore a true heresie , or rather an impietie ; wherin a right conscience can have naught to do ; and the works therof so manifest , that a magistrate can hardly err in prohibiting and quite removing at least the publick and scandalous use therof . from the riddance of these objections i proceed yet to another reason why it is unlawfull for the civil magistrate to use force in matters of religion ; which is , because to judge in those things , though we should grant him able , which is prov'd he is not , yet as a civil magistrate he hath no right . christ hath a government of his own , sufficient of it self to all his ends and purposes in governing his church ; but much different from that of the civil magistrate ; and the difference in this verie thing principally consists , that it governs not by outward force , and that for two reasons . first because it deals only with the inward man and his actions , which are all spiritual and to outward force not lyable : secondly to shew us the divine excellence of his spiritual kingdom , able without worldly force to subdue all the powers and kingdoms of this world , which are upheld by outward force only . that the inward man is nothing els but the inward part of man , his understanding and his will , and that his actions thence proceeding , yet not simply thence but from the work of divine grace upon them , are the whole matter of religion under the gospel , will appeer planely by considering what that religion is ; whence we shall perceive yet more planely that it cannot be forc'd . what euangelic religion is , is told in two words , faith and charitie ; or beleef and practise . that both these flow either the one from the understanding , the other from the will , or both jointly from both , once indeed naturally free , but now only as they are regenerat and wrought on by divine grace , is . in part evident to common sense and principles unquestiond , the rest by scripture : concerning our beleef , mat. . . flesh and blood hath not reveald it unto thee , but my father which is in heaven : concerning our practise , as it is religious and not meerly civil , gal. . , and other places declare it to be the fruit of the spirit only . nay our whole practical dutie in religion is containd in charitie , or the love of god and our neighbour , no way to be forc'd , yet the fulfilling of the whole law ; that is to say , our whole practise in religion . if then both our beleef and practise , which comprehend our whole religion , flow from the faculties of the inward man , free and unconstrainable of themselves by nature , and our practise not only from faculties endu'd with freedom , but from love and charitie besides , incapable of force , and all these things by transgression lost , but renewd and regenerated in us by the power and gift of god alone , how can such religion as this admit of force from man , or force be any way appli'd to such religion , especially under the free offer of grace in the gospel , but it must forthwith frustrate and make of no effect both the religion and the gospel ? and that to compell outward profession , which they will say perhaps ought to be compelld though inward religion cannot , is to compell hypocrisie not to advance religion , shall yet , though of it self cleer anough , be ere the conclusion further manifest . the other reason why christ rejects outward force in the goverment of his church , is , as i said before , to shew us the divine excellence of his spiritual kingdom , able without worldly force to subdue all the powers and kingdoms of this world , which are upheld by outward force only : by which to uphold religion otherwise then to defend the religious from outward violence , is no service to christ or his kingdom , but rather a disparagement , and degrades it from a divine and spiritual kingdom to a kingdom of this world : which he denies it to be , because it needs not force to confirm it : ioh. . . if my kingdom were of this world , then would my servants fight , that i should not be deliverd to the iewes . this proves the kingdom of christ not governd by outward force ; as being none of this world , whose kingdoms are maintaind all by force onely : and yet disproves not that a christian common-wealth may defend it self against outward force in the cause of religion as well as in any other ; though christ himself , coming purposely to dye for us , would not be so defended . cor. . . god hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty . then surely he hath not chosen the force of this world to subdue conscience and conscientious men , who in this world are counted weakest ; but rather conscience , as being weakest , to subdue and regulate force , his adversarie , not his aide or instrument in governing the church . cor. . , , , . for though we walk in the flesh , we do not warre after the flesh : for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal ; but mightie through god to the pulling down of strong holds ; casting down imaginations and everie high thing that exalts it self against the knowledge of god ; and bringing into captivitie everie thought to the obedience of christ : and having in a readiness to aveng all disobedience . it is evident by the first and second verses of this chapter , that the apostle here speaks of that spiritual power by which christ governs his church , how all sufficient it is , how powerful to reach the conscience and the inward man with whom it chiefly deals and whom no power els can deal with . in comparison of which as it is here thus magnificently describ'd , how uneffectual and weak is outward force with all her boistrous tooles , to the shame of those christians and especially those churchmen , who to the exercising of church discipline never cease calling on the civil magistrate to interpose his fleshlie force ; an argument that all true ministerial and spiritual power is dead within them : who think the gospel , which both began and spread over the whole world for above three hundred years under heathen and persecuting emperors , cannot stand or continue , supported by the same divine presence and protection to the worlds end , much easier under the defensive favor onely of a christian magistrate , unless it be enacted and settled , as they call it , by the state , a statute or a state-religion : and understand not that the church it self cannot , much less the state , settle or impose one tittle of religion upon our obedience implicit , but can only recommend or propound it to our free and conscientious examination : unless they mean to set the state higher then the church in religion , and with a grosse contradiction give to the state in thir settling petition that command of our implicit beleef , which they deny in thir setled confession both to the state and to the church . let them cease then to importune and interrupt the magistrate from attending to his own charge in civil and moral things , the settling of things just , things honest , the defence of things religious settled by the churches within themselves ; and the repressing of thir contraries determinable by the common light of nature ; which is not to constrain or to repress religion , probable by scripture , but the violaters and persecuters therof : of all which things he hath anough and more then anough to do , left yet undon ; for which the land groans and justice goes to wrack the while : let him also forbear force where he hath no right to judge ; for the conscience is not his province : least a worse woe arrive him , for worse offending , then was denounc'd by our saviour matt. . . against the pharises : ye have forc'd the conscience , which was not to be forc'd ; but judgment and mercy ye have not executed : this ye should have don , and the other let alone . and since it is the councel and set purpose of god in the gospel by spiritual means which are counted weak , to overcom all power which resists him ; let them not go about to do that by worldly strength which he hath decreed to do by those means which the world counts weakness , least they be again obnoxious to that saying which in another place is also written of the pharises , luke . . that they frustrated the councel of god . the main plea is , and urgd with much vehemence to thir imitation , that the kings of iuda , as i touchd before , and especially iosia both judgd and us'd force in religion . chr. . . he made all that were present in israel to serve the lord thir god : an argument , if it be well weighed , worse then that us'd by the false prophet shemaia to the high priest , that in imitation of iehojada he ought to put ieremie in the stocks , ier. . , , &c. for which he receivd his due denouncement from god . but to this besides i return a three-fold answer : first , that the state of religion under the gospel is far differing from what it was under the law : then was the state of rigor , childhood , bondage and works , to all which force was not unbefitting ; now is the state of grace , manhood , freedom and faith ; to all which belongs willingness and reason , not force : the law was then written on tables of stone , and to be performd according to the letter , willingly or unwillingly ; ( the gospel , our new covnant , upon the heart of every beleever , to be interpreted only by the sense of charitie and inward perswasion : the law had no distinct government or governors of church and commonwealth , but the priests and levites judg'd in all causes not ecclesiastical only but civil , deut. . , &c. which under the gospel is forbidden to all church-ministers , as a thing which christ thir master in his ministerie disclam'd luke . ; as a thing beneathe them cor. . ; and by many of our statutes , as to them who have a peculiar and far differing government of thir own . if not , why different the governors ? why not church-ministers in state-affairs , as well as state-ministers in church-affairs ? if church and state shall be made one flesh again as under the law , let it be withall considerd , that god who then joind them hath now severd them ; that which , he so ordaining , was then a lawfull conjunction , to such on either side as join again what he hath severd , would be nothing now but thir own presumptuous fornication . secondly , the kings of iuda and those magistrates under the law might have recours , as i said before , to divine inspiration ; which our magistrates under the gospel have not , more then to the same spirit , which those whom they force have oft times in greater measure then themselves : and so , instead of forcing the christian , they force the holy ghost ; and , against that wise forewarning of gamaliel , fight against god . thirdly , those kings and magistrates us'd force in such things only as were undoubtedly known and forbidden in the law of moses , idolatrie and direct apostacie from that national and strict enjoind worship of god ; wherof the corporal punishment was by himself expressly set down : but magistrates under the gospel , our free , elective and rational worship , are most commonly busiest to force those things which in the gospel are either left free , nay somtimes abolishd when by them compelld , or els controverted equally by writers on both sides , and somtimes with odds on that side which is against them . by which means they either punish that which they ought to favor and protect , or that with corporal punishment and of thir own inventing , which not they but the church hath receivd command to chastise with a spiritual rod only . yet some are so eager in thir zeal of forcing , that they refuse not to descend at length to the utmost shift of that parabolical prooff luke . , &c. compell them to come in . therfore magistrates may compell in religion . as if a parable were to be straind through every word or phrase , and not expounded by the general scope therof : which is no other here then the earnest expression of gods displeasure on those recusant jewes , and his purpose to preferre the gentiles on any terms before them ; expressd here by the word compell . but how compells he ? doubtless no otherwise then he draws , without which no man can come to him , ioh. . : and that is by the inward perswasive motions of his spirit and by his ministers ; not by the outward compulsions of a magistrate or his officers . the true people of christ , as is foretold psal. . , are a willing people in the day of his power . then much more now when he rules all things by outward weakness , that both his inward power and their sinceritie may the more appeer . god loveth a chearfull giver : then certainly is not pleasd with an unchearfull worshiper ; as the verie words declare of his euangelical invitations . esa. . . ho , everie one that thirsteth , come . ioh. . . if any man thirst . rev. . . i counsel thee . and . . whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely . and in that grand commission of preaching to invite all nations marc . , as the reward of them who come , so the penaltie of them who come not is only spiritual . but they bring now some reason with thir force , which must not pass unanswerd ; that the church of thyatira was blam'd rev. . for suffering the false prophetess to teach and to seduce . i answer , that seducement is to be hinderd by fit and proper means ordaind in church-discipline ; by instant and powerfull demonstration to the contrarie ; by opposing truth to error , no unequal match ; truth the strong to error the weak though slie and shifting . force is no honest confutation ; but uneffectual , and for the most part unsuccessfull , oft times fatal to them who use it : sound doctrine diligently and duely taught , is of herself both sufficient , and of herself ( if some secret judgment of god hinder not ) alwaies prevalent against seducers . this the thyatirians had neglected , suffering , against church-discipline , that woman to teach and seduce among them : civil force they had not then in thir power ; being the christian part only of that citie , and then especially under one of those ten great persecutions , wherof this the second was raisd by domitian : force therfore in these matters could not be requir'd of them , who were then under force themselves . i have shewn that the civil power hath neither right nor can do right by forcing religious things : i will now shew the wrong it doth ; by violating the fundamental privilege of the gospel , the new-birthright of everie true beleever , christian libertie . cor. . . where the spirit of the lord is , there is libertie . gal. . . ierusalem which is above , is free ; which is the mother of us all . and . we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free . it will be sufficient in this place to say no more of christian libertie , then that it sets us free not only from the bondage of those ceremonies , but also from the forcible imposition of those circumstances , place and time in the worship of god : which though by him commanded in the old law , yet in respect of that veritie and freedom which is euangelical , s. paul comprehends both kindes alike , that is to say , both ceremonie and circumstance , under one and the same contemtuous name of weak and beggarly rudiments , gal. . . , . col. . . with : conformable to what our saviour himself taught iohn . , . neither in this mountain nor yet at ierusalem . in spirit and in truth : for the father seeketh such to worship him . that is to say , not only sincere of heart , for such he sought ever , but also , as the words here chiefly import , not compelld to place , and by the same reason , not to any set time ; as his apostle by the same spirit hath taught us rom. . , &c. one man esteemeth one day above another , another &c. gal. . . ye observe dayes , and moonths &c. coloss. . . these and other such places of scripture the best and learnedest reformed writers have thought evident anough to instruct us in our freedom not only from ceremonies but from those circumstances also , though impos'd with a confident perswasion of moralitie in them , which they hold impossible to be in place or time . by what warrant then our opinions and practises herin are of late turnd quite against all other protestants , and that which is to them orthodoxal , to us become scandalous and punishable by statute , i wish were once again better considerd ; if we mean not to proclame a schism in this point from the best and most reformed churches abroad . they who would seem more knowing , confess that these things are indifferent , but for that very cause by the magistrate may be commanded . as if god of his special grace in the gospel had to this end freed us from his own commandments in these things , that our freedom should subject us to a more greevous yoke , the commandments of men . as well may the magistrate call that common or unclean which god hath cleansd , forbidden to s. peter acts . ; as well may he loos'n that which god hath strait'nd , or strait'n that which god hath loos'nd , as he may injoin those things in religion which god hath left free , and lay on that yoke which god hath taken off . for he hath not only given us this gift as a special privilege and excellence of the free gospel above the servile law , but strictly , also hath commanded us to keep it and enjoy it . gal. . . you are calld to libertie . cor. . . be not made the servants of men . gal. . . stand fast therfore in the libertie wherwith christ hath made us free ; and be not intangl'd again with the yoke of bondage . neither is this a meer command , but for the most part in these forecited places accompanied with the verie waightiest and inmost reasons of christian religion : rom. . , . for to this end christ both dy'd and rose and reviv'd , that he might be lord both of the dead and living . but why dost thou judge thy brother ? &c. how presum'st thou to be his lord , to be whose only lord , at least in these things , christ both dy'd and rose and livd again ? we shall all stand before the judgment seat of christ . why then dost thou not only judge , but persecute in these things for which we are to be accountable to the tribunal of christ only , our lord and lawgiver ? cor. . . ye are bought with a price ; be not made the servants of men . some trivial price belike , and for some frivolous pretences paid in their opinion , if bought and by him redeemd who is god from what was once the service of god , we shall be enthrald again and forc'd by men to what now is but the service of men . gal. . , with . . we are not children of the bondwoman &c. stand fast therfore &c. col. . . beware least any man spoil you , &c. after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ . solid reasons wherof are continu'd through the whole chapter . v. . ye are complete in him , which is the head of all principalitie and power . not completed therfore or made the more religious by those ordinances of civil power , from which christ thi● head hath dischargd us ; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances , that was against us , which was contrarie to us ; and took it out of the way , nailing it to his cross , v. : blotting out ordinances written by god himself , much more those so boldly written over again by men . ordinances which were against us , that is , against our frailtie , much more those which are against our conscience . let no man therfore judge you in respect of &c. v. . gal. . , &c. even so we , when we were children , were in bondage under the rudiments of the world : but when the fullness of time was come , god sent forth his son &c. to redeem them that were under the law , that we might receive the adoption of sons &c. wherfore thou art no more a servant , but a son &c. but now &c. how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly rudiments , wherunto ye desire again to be in bondage ? ye observe dayes &c. hence it planely appeers , that if we be not free we are not sons , but still servants unadopted ; and if we turn again to those weak and beggarly rudiments , we are not free ; yea though willingly and with a misguided conscience we desire to be in bondage to them ; how much more then if unwillingly and against our conscience ? ill was our condition chang'd from legal to euangelical , and small advantage gotten by the gospel , if for the spirit of adoption to freedom , promisd us , we receive again the spirit of bondage to fear ; if our fear which was then servile towards god only , must be now servile in religion towards men : strange also and preposterous fear , if when and wherin it hath attaind by the redemption of our saviour to be filial only towards god , it must be now servile towards the magistrate . who by subjecting us to his punishment in these things , brings back into religion that law of terror and satisfaction , belonging now only to civil crimes ; and thereby in effect abolishes the gospel by establishing again the law to a far worse yoke of servitude upon us then before . it will therfore not misbecome the meanest christian to put in minde christian magistrates , and so much the more freely by how much the more they desire to be thought christian ( for they will be thereby , as they ought to be in these things , the more our brethren and the less our lords ) that they meddle not rashly with christian libertie , the birthright and outward testimonie of our adoption : least while they little think it , nay think they do god service , they themselves like the sons of that bondwoman be found persecuting them who are freeborne of the spirit ; and by a sacrilege of not the least aggravation bereaving them of that sacred libertie which our saviour with his own blood purchas'd for them . a fourth reason why the magistrate ought not to use force in religion , i bring from the consideration of all those ends which he can likely pretend to the interposing of his force therin : and those hardly can be other then first the glorie of god ; next either the spiritual good of them whom he forces , or the temporal punishment of their scandal to others . as for the promoting of gods glory , none , i think , will say that his glorie ought to be promoted in religious things by unwarrantable means , much less by means contrarie to what he hath commanded . that outward force is such , and that gods glory in the whole administration of the gospel according to his own will and councel ought to be fulfilld by weakness , at least so refuted , not by force ; or if by force , inward and spiritual , not outward and corporeal , is already prov'd at large . that outward force cannot tend to the good of him who is forc'd in religion , is unquestionable . for in religion whatever we do under the gospel , we ought to be therof perswaded without scruple ; and are justified by the faith we have , not by the work we do . rom. . . let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind . the other reason which follows necessarily , is obvious gal. . , and in many other places of st. paul , as the groundwork and foundation of the whole gospel , that we are justified by the faith of christ , and not by the works of the law . if not by the works of gods law , how then by the injunctions of mans law ? surely force cannot work perswasion , which is faith ; cannot therfore justifie nor pacifie the conscience ; and that which justifies not in the gospel , condemns ; is not only not good , but sinfull to do . rom. . . whatsoever is not of faith , is sin . it concerns the magistrate then to take heed how he forces in religion conscientious men 〈◊〉 least by compelling them to do that wherof they cannot be perswaded , that wherin they cannot finde themselves justified , but by thir own consciences condemnd , instead of aiming at thir spiritual good , he force them to do evil ; and while he thinks himself asa , iosia , nehemia , he be found ieroboam , who causd israel to sin ; and thereby draw upon his own head all those sins and shipwracks of implicit faith and conformitie , which he hath forc'd , and all the wounds given to those little ones , whom to offend he will finde worse one day then that violent drowning mentioned matt. . . lastly as a preface to force , it is the usual pretence , that although tender consciences shall be tolerated , yet scandals thereby given shall not be unpunishd , prophane and licentious men shall not be encourag'd to neglect the performance of religious and holy duties by color of any law giving libertie to tender consciences . by which contrivance the way lies ready open to them heerafter who may be so minded , to take away by little and little , that liberty which christ and his gospel , not any magistrate , hath right to give : though this kinde of his giving be but to give with one hand and take away with the other , which is a deluding not a giving . as for scandals , if any man be offended at the conscientious liberty of another , it is a taken scandal not a given . to heal one conscience we must not wound another : and men must be exhorted to beware of scandals in christian libertie , not forc'd by the magistrate ; least while he goes about to take away the scandal , which is uncertain whether given or taken , he take away our liberty , which is the certain and the sacred gift of god , neither to be touchd by him , nor to be parted with by us . none more cautious of giving scandal then st. paul . yet while he made himself servant to all , that he might gain the more , he made himself so of his own accord , was not made so by outward force , testifying at the same time that he was free from all men , cor. . : and therafter exhorts us also gal. . . ye were calld to libertie &c. but by love serve one another : then not by force . as for that fear least prophane and licentious men should be encourag'd to omit the performance of religious and holy duties , how can that care belong to the civil magistrate , especially to his force ? for if prophane and licentious persons must not neglect the performance of religious and holy duties , it implies , that such duties they can perform ; which no protestant will affirm . they who mean the outward performance , may so explane it ; and it will then appeer yet more planely , that such performance of religious and holy duties especialy by prophane and licentious persons , is a dishonoring rather then a worshiping of god ; and not only by him not requir'd but detested : prov. . . the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination : how much more when he bringeth it with a wicked minde ? to compell therfore the prophane to things holy in his prophaneness , is all one under the gospel , as to have compelld the unclean to sacrifise in his uncleanness under the law . and i adde withall , that to compell the licentious in his licentiousness , and the conscientious against his conscience , coms all to one ; tends not to the honor of god , but to the multiplying and the aggravating of sin to them both . we read not that christ ever exercis'd force but once ; and that was to drive prophane ones out of his temple , not to force them in : and if thir beeing there was an offence , we finde by many other scriptures that thir praying there was an abomination : and yet to the jewish law that nation , as a servant , was oblig'd ; but to the gospel each person is left voluntarie , calld only , as a son , by the preaching of the word ; not to be driven in by edicts and force of arms . for if by the apostle , rom. . , we are beseechd as brethren by the mercies of god to present our bodies a living sacrifice , holy , acceptable to god , which is our reasonable service or worship , then is no man to be forc'd by the compulsive laws of men to present his body a dead sacrifice , and so under the gospel most unholy and unacceptable , because it is his unreasonable service , that is to say , not only unwilling but unconscionable , but if prophane and licentious persons may not omit the performance of holy duties , why may they not partake of holy things ? why are they prohibited the lords supper ; since both the one and the other action may be outward ; and outward performance of dutie may attain at least an outward participation of benefit ? the church denying them that communion of grace and thanksgiving , as it justly doth , why doth the magistrate compell them to the union of performing that which they neither truly can , being themselves unholy , and to do seemingly is both hatefull to god , and perhaps no less dangerous to perform holie duties irreligiously then to receive holy signes or sacraments unworthily . all prophane and licentious men , so known , can be considerd but either so without the church as never yet within it , or departed thence of thir own accord , or excommunicate : if never yet within the church , whom the apostle , and so consequently the church have naught to do to judge , as he professes cor. . , them by what autoritie doth the magistrate judge , or , which is worse , compell in relation to the church ? if departed of his own accord , like that lost sheep luke . , &c. the true church either with her own or any borrowd force worries him not in again , but rather in all charitable manner sends after him ; and if she finde him , layes him gently on her shoulders ; bears him , yea bears his burdens ; his errors , his infirmities any way tolerable , so fulfilling the law of christ , gal. . : if excommunicate , whom the church hath bid go out , in whose name doth the magistrate compell to go in ? the church indeed hinders none from hearing in her publick congregation , for the doors are open to all : nor excommunicates to destruction , but , as much as in her lies , to a final saving . her meaning therfore must needs bee , that as her driving out brings on no outward penaltie , so no outward force or penaltie of an improper and only a destructive power should drive in again her infectious sheep ; therfore sent out because infectious , and not driven in but with the danger not only of the whole and sound , but also of his own utter perishing . since force neither instructs in religion nor begets repentance or amendment of life , but , on the contrarie , hardness of heart , formalitie , hypocrisie , and , as i said before , everie way increase of sin ; more and more alienates the minde from a violent religion expelling out and compelling in , and reduces it to a condition like that which the britains complain of in our storie , driven to and fro between the picts and the sea . if after excommunion he be found intractable , incurable , and will not hear the church , he becoms as one never yet within her pale , a heathen or a publican , mat. . ; not further to be judgd , no not by the magistrate , unless for civil causes ; but left to the final sentence of that judge , whose coming shall be in flames of fire ; that maran athaà , cor. . ; then which to him so left nothing can be more dreadful and ofttimes to him particularly nothing more speedie , that is to say , the lord cometh : in the mean while deliverd up to satan , cor. . . tim. . . that is , from the fould of christ and kingdom of grace to the world again which is the kingdom of satan ; and as he was receivd from darkness to light , and from the power of satan to god acts . , so now deliverd up again from light to darkness , and from god to the power of satan ; yet so as is in both places manifested , to the intent of saving him , brought sooner to contrition by spiritual then by any corporal severitie . but grant it belonging any way to the magistrate , that prophane and licentious persons omit not the performance of holy duties , which in them were odious to god even under the law , much more now under the gospel , yet ought his care both as a magistrate and a christian , to be much more that conscience be not inwardly violated , then that licence in these things be made outwardly conformable : since his part is undoubtedly as a christian , which puts him upon this office much more then as a magistrate , in all respects to have more care of the conscientious then of the prophane ; and not for their sakes to take away ( while they ptetend to give ) or to diminish the rightfull libertie of religious consciences . on these four scriptural reasons as on a firm square this truth , the right of christian and euangelic liberty , will stand immoveable against all those pretended consequences of license and confusion , which for the most part men most licentious and confus'd themselves , or such as whose severitie would be wiser then divine wisdom , are ever aptest to object against the waies of god : as if god without them when he gave us this libertie , knew not of the worst which these men in thir arrogance pretend will follow : yet knowing all their worst , he gave us this liberty as by him judgd best . as to those magistrates who think it their work to settle religion , and those ministers or others , who so oft call upon them to do so , i trust , that having well considerd what hath bin here argu'd , neither they will continue in that intention , nor these in that expectation from them : when they shall finde that the settlement of religion belongs only to each particular church by perswasive and spiritual means within it self , and that the defence only of the church belongs to the magistrate . had he once learnt not further to concern himself with church affairs , half his labor might be spar'd , and the commonwealth better tended . to which end , that which i premis'd in the beginning , and in due place treated of more at large , i desire now concluding , that they would consider seriously what religion is : and they will find it to be in summe , both our beleef and our practise depending upon god only . that there can be no place then left for the magistrate or his force in the settlement of religion , by appointing either what we shall beleeve in divine things or practise in religious ( neither of which things are in the power of man either to perform himself or to enable others ) i perswade me in the christian ingenuitie of all religious men , the more they examin seriously , the more they will finde cleerly to be true : and finde how false and deceivable that common saying is , which is so much reli'd upon , that the christian magistrate is custos utriusque tabulae , keeper of both tables ; unless is meant by keeper the defender only : neither can that maxim be maintaind by any prooff or argument which hath not in this discours first or last bin refuted . for the two tables , or ten commandements , teach our dutie to god and our neighbour from the love of both ; ( give magistrates no autoritie to force either : they seek that from the judicial law ; though on false grounds , especially in the first table , as i have shewn ; and both in first and second execute that autoritie for the most part not according to gods judicial laws but thir own . as for civil crimes and of the outward man , which all are not , no not of those against the second table , as that of coveting ; in them what power they have , they had from the beginning , long before moses or the two tables were in being . and whether they be not now as little in being to be kept by any christian as they are two legal tables , remanes yet as undecided , as it is sure they never were yet deliverd to the keeping of any christian magistrate . but of these things perhaps more some other time ; what may serve the present hath bin above discourst sufficiently out of the scriptures : and to those produc'd might be added testimonies , examples , experiences of all succeeding ages to these times asserting this doctrine : but having herin the scripture so copious and so plane , we have all that can be properly calld true strength and nerve ; the rest would be but pomp and incumbrance . pomp and ostentation of reading is admir'd among the vulgar : but doubtless in matters of religion he is learnedest who is planest . the brevitie i use , not exceeding a small manual , will not therfore , i suppose , be thought the less considerable , unless with them perhaps who think that great books only can determin great matters . i rather chose the common rule , not to make much ado where less may serve . which in controversies and those especially of religion , would make them less tedious , and by consequence read ofter , by many more , and with more benefit . the end . the prisoners vindication with a sober expostulation and reprehension of persecutors / by john gratton. gratton, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the prisoners vindication with a sober expostulation and reprehension of persecutors / by john gratton. gratton, john, - . p. printed and sold by andrew sowle, london : . reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- apologetic works. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the prisoners uindication with a sober expostulation and reprehension of persecutors . by iohn gratton . what mean ye , that ye beat my people to pieces , and grind the faces of the poor , saith the lord god of hosts ? isa. . . lord , how long shall the wicked triumph ? how long shall they utter and speak hard things ? they break in pieces thy people , o lord , and afflict thy heritage ; they slay the widdow and the stranger , and murder the fatherless , psal. . , , , . london : printed and sold by andrew sowle , at the crooked-billet in holloway-lane , near shoreditch , . to all persecutors , both by words and actions . a few words for the clearing of my self , and the truth i profess in real love ; from him that seeks the good of all mankind in general , having real love to all , especially the houshould of faith , who are redeemed to god , out of the vncleanness of the world , who are in scorn called quakers . upon the th day of the th moneth , ( called august ) . i being at backewell about my trading ( it being a fair ) was by two or three bailiffs arrested , by virtue of a writ of excommunicato capiendo , for not coming to the parish church ( so called ) and not appearing at the spiritual court , though i had appeared several times , and had offered to the parish priest , that if he could make it appear , that i was in an error , by clear scripture , i would take him for my friend ; and further , that if he could make it appear from clear scripture , that it was my duty in the sight of god , to come to the parish church and conform to them , that i would do it ; but did not find it his business to seek to inform me at that time , or any other , being not so charitable as to bid me come another time and he would discourse with me : but being after this never cited to the court again , was upon the day aforesaid taken and sent to darby goal ( a very strange way to convince me of any error , if i be in any ) where i remain a prisoner . after i was sent to prison , many false charges were flung after me , to render me and truth odious to the country-people , who were ready to wonder why they should send such a peaceable man to prison ; and i was by my persecutors so highly accused to be an heretick , a factious fellow , the ringleader of a factious people , yea , a blasphemer , an enemy to caesar , and a dangerous fellow , and a spreader of dangerous principles , and what not ? and all to make the people think hardly of me , and believe , if they could , against their belief , that i was some dangerous man , insomuch , that they said , i was not fit to live , especially not fit to be loose in a country ; for by keeping me in prison , they had hopes to scatter the rest : at the hearing of these strange and malicious false calumnies , i was not a little grieved , not for my self , but others , who i heard , were ready to think hardly of me , because such reports had gained some credit with some , that were thought both wise and sober ; they believed them , because others believed them ; those others believed them , because my persecutors ( who are looked upon by most to be spiritual men ) reported them amongst these black-mouth'd uncharitable men . i could not have one to come at me to shew me my reported sad condition , but in prison i must lie , come what will come of wife and children ; so that then my wife went , with two friends more , to the arch-deacon , ( so called ) and shewed him the unreasonableness of my suffering , and the need of my liberty ; but his words were great charges , as aforesaid , though he never discoursed me about religion in his life ; its true , he also said , that he would come to me , and discourse me , and if i was in the right , and he in the wrong , i should come out of prison , and he would go in for me ; but he yet fails to make his words good ; and i do declare to all that may see these lines , that if i cannot make it appear , that he is wrong and i right , i then will be content to stay where i am ; only i would be judged by unprejudiced men to the truth , and such as are not partial , nor make no outward gain of the scriptures : many others have desired my enlargement , some by letters , and some have gone in person , but all fails , except i will conform , and pay the charges they have been at in laying me in prison ; which thing i cannot , or dare not do ; for , first , i believe i ought not to conform to the worship that now by the priests of this nation is maintained by their preaching and practice ; i do not mean by their purses ; for both they and it cost the people dear . dly , i believe , that though it be after the way which they call heresie , yet that the worship i now own , is the true worship of god , and do find by good and great experience , that the lord god of heaven and earth , who is a spirit doth approve and own it so to be ; for the worship i own and believe is the true worship of god , is that spoken of in iohn . , . they that worship god aright , worship and serve him in spirit and in truth ; and saith our saviour , the father seeketh such to worship him . dly , seeing our lord christ jesus , did set up , appoint and command this worship , therefore i believe i ought not to leave it , and run to another worship , that is no where commanded , either by christ , or any of his apostles , thinking thereby to save my estate , and to live at liberty in the world , and enjoy those natural rights and priviledges i am free-born heir to , which i see the drunkard , swearer , curser and proud wicked person is not deprived of , though he be so wicked . lastly , seeing i do those things i believe i ought to do , and have not given any just occasion of offence , or done wrong to any man , therefore can i not own my self in a fault , and give moneys for a pardon to them , that while they are pardoning others , are therein committing the highest sins they can approach unto ; for if i have sinned it is against god , and to him i look for mercy ; but in this i am not by him accused or judged as a sinner , but owned and justified by him , and can say , its god that justifies me , who shall condemn me ? now should i come to my persecutors , and own my self an offendor , and buy their absolution , and conform to their invented ceremonies , then should i by so doing give god's spirit and my own heart and conscience the lye ; from which i hope without offence i may take liberty to say , good lord preserve me . but seeing i must have no better treatment from my persecutors than a prison , which indeed hath alwayes been the way of argument that the false prophets in all ages have taken , with things of the like nature , as fines , whips , lyons dens , firey furnaces , faggots , and such like . i desire they will be pleased to suffer me to treat them a little with a few arguments , which are in my mind , and when i have done , i shall leave them to do , as it shall please god to suffer them , as to me , and desire they may consider and consult their own profit eternally , and not forget , that e'er long both them and i must appear before the judgment seat of christ , to give an account of the deeds done in the body , whether they be good or evil . and first , i enquire of you , that persecute me and others , whether , if it was so , as you say falsly it is , that i was a heretick , a factious fellow , &c. what command , precept or example you have from christ or his apostles , to lay me in prison , seeing i am a peaceable man , and just in my dealing , & pays to caesar his due , as many that know me will witness ? but instead of a command for persecution , doth not our lord christ prohibit it several times ? it may be you will say , it s no persecution that 's done in this kind to an erronious person , &c. though may be , for all that he is so called by you , who call light darkness , and darkness light , is a true christian , and servant of jesus christ , but by his persecutors adjudged to be otherwise , and said , and thought to be that he is not , which indeed is my case at present ; yet i say again , doth not christ prohibit all manner of violence , cruelty , imposition , and the like , when he bids his followers , to love their enemies , not persecute their friends ; and whatsoever they would that men should do unto them , to do so unto men , saying , this is the law and the prophets ; and said , with what measure you mete , it shall be measured to you again ? is this obeying christ's command , in laying men in prison ? for you would not be so done unto for your faithless faith , and worthless worship ; and though you profess to love god , yet while you in works deny him , i shall not much heed your profession ; for he is a true lover of him that keeps his commandments , it will be so found one day , when those that pretended to preach & prophesie in his name , and in his name cast out devils , shall be bidden , depart from him , workers of iniquity : and if those that preach in his name , and prophesie in his name , and in his name cast out devils , be sent away from him , because they , for all that , were workers of iniquity , what do you think will be the portion of those that come in the name of man , and preach and prophesie in man's name , and by man's authority only are held up ; and instead of casting devils out , tell people , they must live in sin all the dayes of their lives , & make people content to let the devil keep the house , hurry them on into iniquity , transgression and sin all the dayes of their lives ; and for all this , tell those very people , that they are christians , and though they do those things they ought not , and leave undone those things they ought , and are miserable offenders , in whom there is no health ; yet while they put into the priest's mouth , are owned as a dear brother and sister , and so called when they are buried by him , though may be they have killed themselves by a drunken-bout : oh! how dreadful will the end of these things be ! it s a grief to my spirit to think of it . but farther , did not christ command that both tares and wheat should grow together ? and doth not these two words , wheat and tares comprehend all mankind ? what can you make for your practices here ? if i be a tare , you should let me alone till the day of the harvest ; for what hast thou to do , saith the apostle , with another man's servant , to his own master he stands or falls . and christ jesus shewed a reason also , why he would have men to let them alone , and both grow together ; for , saith he , lest while you pluck up the tares , ye root out the wheat also : which clearly shews that men may be mistaken , especially those that have not an infallible spirit ; for its the spirit of god that 's infallible , which searcheth and makes all things manifest , even the deep things of god. and we have had sufficient experience , that under pretence of plucking up the tares , which is contrary to christ's command , the devil hath laboured with all his might , to root the wheat out of the world ; and though christ saith , he came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them , yet the devil came to kill & destroy mens lives , not to save them : but we find christ rebuked his disciples , when they would have had fire from heaven , and told them , they knew not what spirit they were of ; my kingdom is not of this world : he did not come to be lord & king in an outward manner , and make men yield to him by outward force , for if so , then would his servants fight ; but he came to set up his kingdom within in the hearts of men ; so that it was promised by the lord , that he would give him for a covenant to the people , and would create new hearts in them , and write his law in them , and put his fear in their inward parts , and be their god. so when christ came , he said to them , the kingdom of heaven is within you ; and said the prophet , he shall sit as a refiners fire , and fullers sope , to purifie the heart , that it may offer an offering in righteousness . it s true , the apostles in their weakness , forbad those that they found casting out devils in his name , because they did not follow him ; but did christ approve of it ? nay , he rebuked them , saying , he that gathers with me , scatters not : he that is not against me , is for me . methinks this might be taken notice of by you priests , that persecute me and others ; you have seen some of your drunken hearers become very sober men , after they have come to hear the quakers ( as you call us ) preach ; some of your swearers , cursing , proud , prophane hearers become very careful livers , both in words and deeds ; and what ! doth this grieve you ? methinks you should think such men as these , that prevail so upon peoples hearts to be good men , men of your side , if you be for god , and should , like christ , who you call your lord and master , rather rebuke such as forbid us , than forbid us your selves ; and when like peter and iohn , we dare not but speak the things we hear and see , and are commanded , not then to take us and put us in prison ; and so stop up the mouthes of them god hath opened , and be angry with them , though they do what they do freely , and look for no part of your great revenues neither : remember , you do not desire to be so done by ; and also its worth your notice taking , that those our saviour christ whipt out of the temple , were buyers and sellers : what would you think , if such must be whipt out of your steeple-houses now , and such only be admitted to preach as would do it freely in them ? but though he did whip such out , as aforesaid , yet we never read that he whipt any in ; or that if any would not come to that place , that then he imprisoned them , or fined them , or the like ; no , he was a shepherd , tender and loving unto them ; if one went astray , his way to fetch them in hath been , and is ever by his gentle calls unto them , and reproving , rebuking and checking of them in their hearts by his spirit , and following of them with his righteous judgments in their inward man : so that for want of true peace with god , many have returned again to him , who shews them wherein they offend , and when they return , there is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents , than ninety nine just persons that need no repentance . iust persons , [ mark that ] these are none of your church of miserable offenders : but let me ask you , is not faith the gift of god ? and that which is not of faith is sin , is it not ? if so , then i ask , what you had gained if you could make a man chuse rather to conform to your worship , ( yours i call it ) contrary to his faith and conscience , than lose his enjoyments of wife , children , liberty and estate , any more then a hypocrite , one that seemed to be that he is not ? nay , may i not say any better than a plain heretick ; for i take him to be a heretick that is condemned of himself , that allows himself to do that he condemns himself for . and truly , this way of persecuting men for their faith and conscience , is the only way to bring them to become hypocrites and hereticks , and is the way such men have gone in , to hold up their idolatry and superstition in all ages , witness baals prophets ; and the old serpent knows it well enough ; therefore it was said in the revelations , that the devil should cast some of you into prison : some of whom ? some of the servants and faithful witnesses of jesus , who would not , could not worship the beast . but further , suppose i wanted faith and a right understanding of the things that belong to my everlasting peace , do you think that a prison will be a means to bring me into the true faith ? can the prison walls rectifie my understanding , or give me faith and wisdom ? did ever christ command the use of a prison or fine , or any thing of that nature , to men that would not hear him , nor believe him ? what ground have you for this ? shew us your foundation for these actions , and bring command , precept or example for them from christ or his servants , and then i shall think better of you ; but if not , let me tell you , one day you may find your portion to be what the prophet said , wo to him that spoils , and is not spoiled . therefore i could gladly desire , even in pity to your own souls , that you would consider your doings ; not that i am so much grieved for my own suffering for truth 's sake , no , though my poor wife and children are near and dear to me , yet blessed be the lord , i have faith in god concerning them , and believe he will take care for them and me too , and can trust the lord upon all accounts , blessed be his name forever ; though it is hard , and will be so found one day to you , that part me from them , to be stript from them for my obedience to god , and laid in prison , and by you reported to be one of the worst of men : oh! this hath been the old way and manner of old the serpent and his instruments have taken with the servants of jesus christ , witness paul's accusers and persecutors ; we , said they , have found this man a pestilent fellow , a mover of sedition , a ring-leader of the sect of the nazareans , &c. and the great rabbies of those dayes , the scribes , phrisees , high priests and rulers , that persecuted our great lord and master jesus christ , accused him to be an enemy to caesar , a blasphemer , and a deceiver , &c. and you that are my persecutors , are you not much like these men aforesaid , who persecuted christ and his apostles , and cryed to the rulers for help , in your proceedings against me ? and though some of you never saw me as i know of , and none of you ever came to discourse me , or see wherein i was mistaken , as to my faith and principles ; yet you can fling it out , that i am a dangerous person , and a deceiver , and runs up and down the country to delude people : oh! these your lyes and false charges will one day be remembred , except you repent , which i desire you may . and as i said before , consider your doings , and see who you run parallel with ; you are but men , you may be mistaken , seeing you are not led by an infallible spirit , and therefore cannot be sure your selves are in the right ; but you go by conjectures , and rest upon the judgment of ancient fathers , reverend divines , heathen authors , or your own conceivings , or the like , and are uncertain , and leave the people unsatisfied , and so manifest your selves to be such as are not sent with the lord's message , received from god himself , as by all your uncertain beating the air is manifest to every one whose eyes the lord hath opened : so that here is great danger , if i should leave christ the true light and teacher of men , who now appears by his pure spirit in my heart , and shews me the things that do belong to my peace , and follow you , that i should then be led to act both in principle and practice , and do those things i ought not , and leave undone those things i ought to do ; and then i could not escape being a miserable sinner and offender , in whom there is no health . now suppose i should , contrary to my faith and knowledge , come to you , and live and dye in error , for fear of being here kept in prison , and brought to poverty in the world , which , blessed be the lord , i value not in comparison of my peace with him , the god of peace , and think to plead with god , and say , i did what i did in submission to man's will , who said , they were the ministers of christ , and was forced to it by the chief priests of our country , and must either submit to their wills , or lie in prison , my goods spoiled , my wife and children impoverished ; so that i did what i did only to save my estate , and have my liberty , &c. or else i would not have done it , for it was against my faith and conscience , and because of the fear of man : will this excuse me ? if not , then i ask you , can you excuse me to god , and assure me of it , that if i will conform to your worship , and give you monies for a pardon of my true obedience to god in disobedience to you ? for so indeed the case lieth ; if not , that you cannot excuse me , if you should or could force me to sin against god , then why should not i , who am a peaceable man , and wrongs no man , but loves all men , have my liberty to live , as i dare dye ? seeing i must answer for my self , and stand or fall to my own master , what have you to do to judge me , who am the lord's servant ? and if not , must stand or fall to him i serve : or how dare you smite your fellow servants , and fling them in prison that have done you no wrong , nor owe you nothing but love , when he that put in his fellow servant in prison , that owed him a hundred pence , was so severly judged of his lord , who had forgiven him a greater debt ? and has taught to use those words in prayer , forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive them that trespass against us : and would you not have god answer your own desires ? consider these things , and learn to do as you would be done unto ; for with the same measure you mete , it shall be measured unto you again : and remember what our saviour layeth down as great offences at the last day to those on the left hand , go you cursed into everlasting torment with the devil and his angels ; or , depart from me , ye workers of iniquity , i know you not ; for i was an hungry , and you gave me no meat ; thirsty , and you gave me no drink ; naked , and you cloathed me not ; sick , and in prison , and you visited me not . and when they answered , when saw we thee an hungry , thirsty , naked , &c. and did not minister unto thee ? he told them , inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these that believe in me , you did it not to me . by which its clear , he takes that which is done to his followers as done to himself ; for indeed it is for his sake , who teaches us to live righteously , soberly and godlily in this present evil world ; and because we obey him , and keep his commands , therefore are we hated of all men for his name 's sake ; but the wicked are not thus treated by you , the swearer , lyar , drunkard , proud person , &c. are set at liberty , and in these dayes the men in fashion : but if it be so great an offence not to visit the servants of christ , when in distress ; what will it be to those that layeth them in prison , and keep them there , which is a means to bring them into nakedness , hunger , thirst and sickness ? was it not said , that it was better a mill-stone was hanged about his nick , and he cast into the sea , that offended one of those little ones that believed in christ , than he should have done so ? if so , then what will his portion be that not only offends them , but persecutes them , imprisons them , spoils their goods , belyes and slanders their person , and misrepresents them to the world , takes the righteousness of the righteous from him , and strips him from dear wife and children , and causeth them to suffer also ; though it s said , cursed is he that parts man and wife . oh! what excuse can you make at the last day for these things ! how unlike are you to him , that is good to all men , and laid down his life a ransom for all , and doth cause his sun to shine upon all , and his rain to descend upon all , and his grace that brings salvation appears in all , and strives with all . and this also you might consider , that it hath never been the practice of any prophet or apostle , or servant of jesus christ , to persecute any man for conscience sake , or for his faith ; but on the contrary , it hath ever been the practice of the false prophets , that run on in the way of balaam , for gifts and rewards , greedy dogs that can never have enough , blind guides , that love darkness , and hate the light , serpents that have perfect enmity against the children of god ; and so are enemies to christ jesus , babylon's merchants , who come in the power of the beast , these in all ages persecute the lambs followers , and hate the appearance of him , where-ever it is ; so that the apostle saith , he that 's born after the flesh , persecutes him that 's born after the spirit : even so it is now , and hath been in all ages ever since cain's time , who slew his brother abel , because abel's works were righteous , and his own were evil : so cain was the first persecutor , and the lord was displeased with , and avenged the blood of abel upon him in righteousness . now i might mention many after cain , that were persecutors , as the sodomites , who said concerning lot , this one fellow came in to sojourn , and he will needs be a iudge ; because he entertained the angels of the lord , they pressed sore upon him ; but the lord delivered him , whose righteous soul was grieved with the filthy conversation of the wicked sodomites , and brought down his righteous judgments upon their heads in a dreadful manner : and the aegyptians , who refused to let israel have liberty to go and serve the lord , persecuted them very sore ; but the lord wrought their deliverance , and rendered unto pharaoh and his people according to their deeds , as you may read at large in exodus . likewise iezabel that persecuted them that would not worship baal , god almighty brought down his heavy judgments upon her , and the false prophets of baal that fed at her table . remember proud haman that was full of indignation against mordecai , because he stood not up nor moved for him ; and how hot he was in his mind to have mordecai and all the iews young and old , destroyed and killed in one day , charging them to the king , ( to whom they were very good subjects , as appeared by mordecai , who discovered the treason of two of the king's chamberlains , keepers of the door , who sought to lay hands on the king ) that there were a certain people scattered and dispersed among the people in all the provines of his kingdom ; and their laws , saith he , are divers from all people , neither keep they the king's laws ; therefore it is not , saith he , for the kings profit to suffer them ; though we do not hear , but they were all peaceable , and hurt no man , only in matters of worship and conscience they differed from the people of the land , that could bow to proud haman , who digged a pit for another , and fell into it himself , and was taken in the net which he spread for others ; glory unto god forever , whose eyes are over the righteous , and his ears open to their prayers . remember it was pashur , the son of imer the priest , that smote ieremiah the prophet , and put him in the stocks , ier. . . for what ? for obeying the lord. also , in chap. . when he spoke the word of the lord in the hearing of the priests , and of the prophets and people , then the priests and the prophets and all the people took him , saying , thou shalt shurely dye ; and the priests and prophets spoke unto the princes , and to all the people , saying , this man is worthy to dye , for he hath prophesied against this city : what priests and prophets were these ? such as could flatter , dissemble and lye , and turn to any thing the people fancied to make themselves rich ; see chap. . . &c. these were they that lay in wait , that set snares and traps , and catched men , whose houses were full of deceit , therefore they are become great and waxen rich ; they are waxen fat , they shine , they overpass the deeds of the wicked , they judge not the cause of the fatherless , yet they prosper ; and the right of the needy do they not judge ; but the prophets prophesie falsly , and the priests bear rule by their means , and my people love to have it so ; and what will you do in the end ? shall i not visit for these things , saith the lord ? shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this ? a wonderful and a horrible thing is committed in the land , &c. the false prophets , and the great rich fat priests bear rule , &c. yea , from the least of them , even to the greatest of them , every one is given to covetousness ; and from the prophet , even to the priest , every one dealeth falsly : they have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly , saying , peace , peace , when there is no peace , ier. . . & . , . and because ieremiah prophesied truly to them what the lord commanded , he was put in prison , chap. . . and . . and . . yea , into a dungeon , where his feet stuck fast in the mire , but the lord preserved him , and wrought his deliverance . and shall i forget to mention shadrach , meshach and abednego , who would not obey the kings law concerning worship , whom god preserved in the hot firey furnace , but those that cast them in were slain with the flame : likewise daniel , who ceased not to pray , and give thanks before his god three times a day , when the king had given out a law to the contrary , and the lord delivered him out of the lyons den , and those that accused him and informed against him were cast into the lyons den , with their wives and children , and the lyons had mastery over them , and brake all their bones in pieces , or ever they came at the bottom of the den. so its clear thorow all the old testament , that the words of the apostle are true , he that is born after the flesh always persecuted him that was born after the spirit ; and so it is still ; for iohn baptist and our saviour had no better entertainment than the prophets had had before them ; for as christ tells us by way of parable in matth ▪ . when the lord had sent his servants to those husband-men , unto whom he let out his vineyard , and they beat some , killed some , and stoned some ; last of all he sent his son , and him they took and slew also ; and to this day are the high-priests and rulers slaying , crucifying and murdering the holy one and the just , in his apostles and servants , in whom he appears , telling the world , this light within , which shines in the hearts and consciences of men , is a deceiver , a delusion of satan , a dark lathorne , and what not ? though it is only this that discovers the thoughts and intents of the heart , and makes all things manifest of what sort it is ; so that the apostle saith , this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world , but men love darkness rather than light , because their deeds are evil ; for every one that doth evil hateth the light , neither cometh to the light , lest his deeds should be reproved ; but he that doth truth cometh to the light , that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in god. this is very clear , light and darkness cannot agree ; so that it hath ever been the works of darkness that the light hath condemned , and judged and made manifest to be evil ; and therefore the old serpent brings his false accusations of the light , & calls it deceit , &c. and is the deceiver himself , and yet will not abide to hear truth spoken of himself ; no more will his children who are acted by him , & in whose hearts he reigns , and fills them full of pride , covetousness , envy , hatred and malice , cruelty and filthiness ; so out of their hearts proceed these things ; and they cry to the rulers for help against those that preach the gospel boldly and freely ; as they did by stephen , ( so they are doing still , or would do , had they power ) when they gnashed on him with their teeth , cast him out of the city , and stoned him , having charged him falsly , that he spake blasphemous words , &c. these have their blind saul's to run them errands , to whom they give power to take them bound that are walkers i● the light , whether they be men or women ; these command the ignorant and unlearned men ( as peter and iohn were ) that preach boldly in the name of jesus , that they preach no more in that name : but we must obey god rather than man , and cannot but speak the things that we have seen & heard . now when the apostles could not but preach the things they had heard and seen , and continued in the power of god , working mightily , to the healing of the sick , and such as were vexed with unclean spirits , then the high priest , and those that were with him , were filled with indignation , and laid their hands on the apostles , and put them into the common prison ; but the lord brought them out , and sent them into the temple early on the next morning , where they taught as the lord commanded them ; and there went an informer to the high priest , the captain of the temple , and the chief priests , and told them , that the men they had put in prison , were standing in the temple , and teaching the people ; then went the captain with the officers , and brought peter and iohn before the council , and the high priest said , did not we straitly command you , that you should not teach in this name , & c ? then peter & the other apostle answered , we ought to obey god rather than man , acts . ( read it . ) how like those priests and officers are these in our days ? and how plainly walk these in the steps of those , and practise the like things against those that walk in the spirit and practice of the apostles ? and how clear is it , that in all ages it was those that were born after the flesh , that persecuted those that were born after the spirit ? to whom it s given , not only to believe , but to suffer for his sake ; not to persecute any for his sake , no , nor for reflecting him neither ; but its evident the persecutors are such as seek to please men , not god ; this is clear from herod , who after he had killed iohn the baptist , grew more vile , and stretched out his hands to vex certain of the church , after christ was mightily manifested in his apostles ; and he killed iames , the brother of iohn , with the sword ; and because he saw it pleased the iews , he proceeded further to take peter , and apprehended him , and put him in prison , but the lord sent his angel , and delivered him out of prison , and from the hands of proud herod , whom the angel of the lord smote , and he gave up the ghost , and was eaten of worms , because he gave not god the glory . this also is clear from pilate , who knew ( its said ) that for envy they had delivered him ; yet it s also said by mark , that pilate being willing to content the people , released unto them barabbas , and delivered jesus , ( when he had scourged him ) to be crucified . paul also met with the same spirit , when the iews saw him in the temple at ierusalem , and stirred up all the people , and laid hands on him , and cryed out , this is the man that teacheth all men every where against the people , and the law , and this place ; and they went about to kill him , but he was delivered out of their hands by lysias the chief captain , and sent him to felix , where he was accused by tertullus , ( the high priest ananias being present ) to be a pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition amongst all the jews throughout the world , and a ringleader of the sect of the nazareans , & that he had gone about to prophane the temple : paul makes his defence before felix , and felix perceived the matter , discoursed paul afterwards , and the power of god reaching him , he trembled , yet was so bent for to get monyes ; for it s said , he hoped that money would have been given him of paul , that he might loose him , sent for him the oftner and communed with him ; yet when festus came into felix 's room , felix willing to shew the jews a pleasure , left paul bound : festus being come into the province , the high priest & the chief of the jews informed him against paul. after that paul was brought before the judgment-seat , where the iews laid many and grievous complaints against paul , which they could not prove , paul answered for himself ; but festus willing to do the iews a pleasure , answered , paul , wilt thou go up to jerusalem , and there be judged ? for that the iews desired , and thought to lay wait in the way to kill him ; but paul appealed to caesar , and afterward declared before agrippa , and bernice his wife , and festus , how he had been a persecutor of the church himself , and went to damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests ; & how the lord met with him by the way , saying , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks , &c. see here how hot in their spirits these professing iews were , and in their blind zeal how cruel they were in their hearts , and how the rulers looked more at their own interest , to keep in favour with the people , than to do justly to them who were maliciously and falsly accused to them ; and how clear is it that they have always been a generation of cain's children , that quenched the spirit of god , and set at nought all his counsel , which persecuted them that were born of it , and lived in it , and were never persecutors of any for conscience sake ? so that persecution is an evident sign of perdition , where-ever it appears , and suffering for christ an evident sign of salvation , and that of god ; and therefore many have taken joyfully the spoiling of their goods , & rejoyced they were thought worthy to suffer for his sake ; and though they have walked about in goat-skins and sheep-skins , and have been destitute , afflicted and tormented , yet it s said , the world was not worthy of them ; and they plainly declare , that they seek a better country , a city that hath a foundation , whose builder and maker is god : and though they go through great tribulation , yet they have their robes wished , and made white in the blood of the lamb , and follow the lamb whither soever he goeth , having an eye to him that is invisible , and respect to the recompence of reward ; for the lord takes that which is done to them as done to himself , and therefore said he , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? oh! that you would consider these things , you that can cry to the rulers for help against those that cannot hurt you , and persecute them that are your greatest friends , and all mens : cease your cruelties , and yield obedience to the commands of him , who is lord of all , and hath bidden you do as you would be done by , and commanded you to love all men , and do good to all men , and to hurt no man , injure no man , defraud no man , &c. for we read not of any that were servants of jesus christ , that ever persecuted any for conscience sake ; for conscience is god's throne in man , and he only hath power over it , and it is no less than usurpation to offer to impose upon it . you pretend to be protestants , and that that name first came up by protesting against imposition ; and what , is it now to be practised ? they condemned it , and so doth god and good men through all ages . and it is hard that men cannot live under the government , except they submit their consciences to every edict , and ask you what religion they must be of ; though it s well known , we are peaceable men , and also sober , just , neighbourly and friendly as any men in the nation ; neither do we make spoil of the creation , either in meat , drink or apparel : and so , why shall not we have liberty to live as we dare dye ? truly it is very unchristian dealing , either to compel us to believe against our belief , or else to imprison us and spoil our goods for practising what we believe , when it is not in the least contrary to the moral law of god : methinks you might afford us better entertainment ; the apostle exhorts to entertain strangers ; for so did the good men of old , and so entertained angels unawares sometimes . and what , shall i say you do not know us , who you in scorn call quakers ? for if you did , i hope you would not persecute us ; and though you do not know us , yet as strangers you might afford us better entertainment than you do ; all we desire of you , is but liberty to serve our god according to his mind , without being persecuted for it . remember what edom did of old , they refused to let israel pass quietly through their land , on the king's high-way , though they would have eaten their own bread , and not have been injurous to any man ; edom refused to let his brother israel go . and is not this like our case ? we eat no man's bread for nought ; we covet no mans silver , gold or apparel ; we injure no man , hurt no man , defraud no man ; we love all men , and do good to all men ; and all we desire , is to pass quietly through the world unto the kingdom of promise : and we heartily desire you did know us , and then you would know your selves better ; and however , one day you will know us , and be ashamed that your entertainment of the true servants of jesus christ , hath been fines , spoiling of goods , imprisonments , beatings , stonings , false accusations , slanders and lyes , calling us cheats , hereticks , false prophets , and what not ? this is , and hath been our entertainment amongst you , and is mine at this day in prison , because i cannot , dare not play hypocrite , and go contrary to my faith : but you will say , may be , that my faith is not true faith , but i believe an error . i answer ; you cannot prove your charges against us from clear scripture , which saith , that it is not only given unto us to believe , but also to suffer for his sake we believe in : but it no where saith , it s given us also to make others suffer that do not believe . and suppose i did want a right understanding and true faith , ( i say again ) do you think that a prison will help me ? can a prison give faith ? can prison walls rectifie mens understandings ? lay aside these carnal crutches , and bring spiritual weapons ; truth is sufficient to plead its own cause ; and faith is the gift of god : it s only base cain's salfe worship that forceth : he that will not worship the beast , or receive his mark in his forehead , or in his hand , must be killed , or no man must buy or sell with him at least : so error and enmity , envy and cruelty alwayes go together ; but the truth is received for its own worth ; and it s the manner and nature of true faith to work by love ; pure religion and true , is loving god above all , and our neighbours as our selves ; and in this love we should visit the fatherless and widdows , and not make widdows and fatherless ( in a sence ) by casting the father and husband in prison ; this is not to keep unspotted from the world ; for it s said , the world should hate us , ( who are true followers of christ ) and persecute us , and excommunicate us out of their synagogues , and say all manner of evil falsly against us ; yea , our saviour tells us , they shall bring us before kings and rulers for a testimony against them : but christ jesus no where bids his disciples excommunicate those out of their places of worship that would not believe , nor bring them before kings and rulers , or cry to rulers for to put them in prison , fine them , and spoil their goods ; its true , he bids them shake the dust off their feet for a testimony against them that would not receive their testimonies ; but when they would have had fire from heaven to have destroyed those that did not receive him , christ rebuked them , and said , ye know not what manner of spirit you are of ; the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them : it s true , he tells them , the rulers of the gentiles exercise lordship over them , and their great ones exercise authority upon them ; but , saith christ , it shall not be so amongst you , &c. remember what he compared the angry scribes and pharisees to , who took offence at both iohn baptist and himself , and indeed almost all that god sent amongst them ; saith he , they are like unto children sitting in the market-place , and calling one to another , and saying , we have piped unto you , and you have not dan●ed ; we have mourned unto you , and you have not lamented , &c. and is not this like you ? who are still so childish to be angry with us , because we do not dance after your pipe , nor lament after your mourning ; why will you not do as you would be done by ? you would not take it well to be forc'd to conform to us , would you ? then i ask you , why will you not be merciful , ( as christ commands you ) as your father ( saith he ) is merciful , who is kind ( saith he ) to the vnthankful , and to the evil ? let your fruits declare you to be branches of the true vine , and children of god : have you forgot what 's said of the man that fell among thieves , as he went from ierusalem to iericho ? the thieves stripped him , and wounded him , and left him half dead ; now the priest passed by , and the levite looked on him also , passed by and left him ; but the good samaritan took pity on him when he came by , and bound up his wounds , poured in oyl and wine , and set him on his own beast , and brought him to an inn , and took care of him ; and ( saith christ ) go thou and do likewise . alack ! how many lie wounded in sin and iniquity , and naked of all that 's good ! and must none take pity of them ? what! though it be a man of another city or society , if he hath oyl and wine , and will lend a hand of help , and do good to the wounded , and help the naked to a garment , why should you be offended ? it was ill in the priest and levite , that would not help him themselves , and shewed a churlish , idle , easeful , selfish spirit in them , that care not what comes of men , so they can eat the fat , and clothe themselves with the fleece , and live at ease : but it would have been much worse in them if they would neither a help'd him themselves , nor suffer another to help him ; but if he did , take him and cast him in prison , spoil his goods , or put him to death . and christ saith , wo unto you scribes , pharisees and hypocrites , for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men ; for you neither go in your selves , neither suffer ye them that are entring , to go in : wo unto you scribes , pharisees , hypocrites ▪ for ye devour widdows houses , ( yes , in our dayes , leaves her not a cow to give her milk , nor a bed to lie on ) and for a pretence ( saith he ) make long prayers ; therefore you shall receive the greater condemnation : wo unto you blind guides , who lay heavy burdens , and grievous to born upon men , but will not touch them with one of your fingers : but ( saith christ ) they walk in long robes , love the uppermost rooms at feasts , and the chief places in the synagogues , and greetings in the markets , and to be called of men rabbi , master ; but ( saith he to his disciples ) be not ye called master , for one is your master , even christ , and all you are brethren . but perhaps you may say , we are not your brethren . well , suppose we were not , you ought to love us , if we were your enemies ; but if we be not your brethren , why do you take tythes from us ? for it was never known that the children of israel took tythes of any , but only their brethren ; see heb. . . however , you ought to do all things in charity ; for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of god : it s said , mercy rejoyceth against iudgment ; for he shall have iudgment without mercy that hath shewed no mercy ; for if ye have bitter envying & strife in your hearts , glory not , you are no better than vnbelievers ; therefore lye not against the truth : for , saith the apostle , this wisdom descendeth not from above , but is earthly , sensual , devilish : for where envy and strife is , there is confusion , and every evil work ; but the wisdom that is from above , is pure , peaceable , gentle and easie to be intreated ; full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality , and without hypocrisie ; and the fruits of righteousness is sown in peace in them that make peace . but say you , i am a sower or mover of sedition . so said the iews by paul ; but they accused him falsly , and so do you me ; for i fear god , and love all men , and herein do i exercise my self , to have alwayes a conscience void of offence towards god and men , and as much as in me lieth , endeavour to live peaceable with all men ; and do know assuredly that i seduce no man , for the lord hath given me in his endless mercy an understanding to know him that is true : and the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , doth not lead us to seduce any , but reproves and condemns seducers and sedition , and makes all things manifest of what sort it is . but if i did , or any of us did move sedition , then it would be seen by our fruits , lives and conversations , and we should not have that presence of god with us , which we have ; and besides , you would do well to shew us wherein ; ( as the apostle did them of old ) and shew us our errors , which are not to be found in a prison , nor indeed in us , who believe and walk in the light , and are children of it . but perhaps you may say , we walk disorderly . suppose we do , what then ? if you will take the apostles advice , you should withdraw from us ; and if we observed not , or obeyed not the gospel-order , do as the apostle bids you ; for ( saith he ) if any man obey not our word by this epistle , note that man , and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed ; yet count him not as an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . [ but not one word of a prison or fine . ] no , ( saith he elsewhere ) the servant of the lord must be gentle unto all men , apt to teach , patient ; in meekness in structing those that oppose themselves , if god peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgment of the truth ; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil , who are taken captive by him at his will : oh , that you would take notice of this great piece of advice ! and further concerning those that have a form of godliness , but deny the power thereof , from such turn away , saith he . and so , you would shew your dislike of such , and disown them to be none of you ; but alas ! where is the power of godliness to be seen , if not in the sober , honest quaker , as you call us ? who dare not speak his own words , nor do his own will , but lays down all to follow the lamb , in true obedience to what he requires and commands , though for the same they suffer the loss of all outward things : and truly it is seen fulfilled , that he that will live godly in christ jesus , must suffer persecution ; and he that departs from iniquity makes himself a prey . but the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart , and of a good conscience , and faith unfeigned ; and saith he thus , warn them that are vnruly , comfort the feeble-minded ; support the weak ; be patient towards all men ; see that none render evil for evil unto any man , but ever follow that which is good , both amongst your selves , and to all men : and then what follows ? rejoyce evermore : and truly so they might with good cause , if this counsel were observed : pray without ceasing , ( saith he that spoke in charity ) in every thing give thanks , for this is the will of god in christ iesus concerning you ; quench not the spirit , despise not prophecying ; prove all things , hold fast that which is good ; abstain from all appearance of evil. oh , what tender counsel this is ! and what need have we to take notice of it here in england ! nay , he tells you elsewhere , though he speak with the tongue of men and angels , and have not charity , i am become as sounding brass , and a tinckling simbal . and though i have the gift of prophecy , and understand all mysteries , and all knowledge ; and though i have all faith , so that i could remove mountains , and have no charity , i am nothing ; and though i bestow all my goods to feed the poor ; and though i give my body to be burned , and have not charity , it profiteth me nothing : charity suffereth long , and is kind ; doth not make men suffer long , for that 's unkind . and truly the apostle is so full in this matter , that all profession or religion without charity , is nothing worth ; charity , saith he , envieth not , beareth all things : compare but this with peter's words ; add ( saith he ) to your faith virtue , to virtue knowledge , to knowledge temperance , to temperance patience , to patience godliness , and to godliness brotherly kindness , and to brotherly-kindness charity ; if these things be in you , and abound , they make you that you shall neither be barren nor vnfruitful in the knowledge of our lord iesus christ ; but he that lacketh these things , is blind , and cannot see afar off . and now , if you would judge the tree by its fruits , what can you find of these things in persecution ? and if you believe scripture , methinks you may see the very current of it runs continually against persecution , violence , oppression , cruelty , uncharitableness , and the like . perhaps you may say , it s not worthy to be called persecution that 's done to a heretick . let me answer you once more ; suppose you , that the scripture is to be taken notice of , and the precepts therein to be minded ? then see what it saith ; a man that is a heretick , after the first and second admonition , reject , knowing that him that is such , is subverted and sinneth , being condemned of himself . so here he must be admonished to obey what he knows ; for if he did not sin knowingly , he would not condemn himself : but if he persist and reject counsel , then reject him , disown him , and have no society with him , &c. [ but not one word of putting him in prison , fine him , or spoil his goods . ] but though i thus speak , be it known to you , i am no heretick , ( as you have been pleased to call me ) for i am not in the least condemned of my self for what i do , in things relating to faith and worship ; no , god is my witness , i do what i do in obedience to him , and do know him to justifie me , and comfort me in my bonds for the same ; and it is a light matter to be judged at mans day ; yet i for truths sake , was free to clear my self of your false charges . but perhaps you may still say , if i be no heretick , i am one that causes divisions and offences contrary to your doctrine . well , suppose i be ; nay , suppose i was one that caused divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine of the apostles , yet see what must be done to such ; why , saith the apostle , i beseech you brethren , mark them that cause divisions and offences , contrary to our doctrine , which ye have learned , and avoid them . avoid them , what is that ? all flee their company : but let me tell you , we are none of this sort , for we cause no divisions from the truth ; it is our travail and labour in the lord , that men may be truly joyned unto the truth , and live in it ; and it s those that serve not our lord jesus christ , but their own bellys , who by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple ; but these goods words and fair speeches the people must pay them well for too , else they must not have them : but for good works and fair conversations , those are not to be found amongst the belly-servers . but may i not here venture to say by the people called quakers , as paul did by the romans , your obedience is come abroad unto all men ; yea , and i believe god will bruise satan under our feet shortly , though he be suffered to cast some of us into prison now , for the tryal of our faith , and accuse us falsly of many things , as he did iob , and makes lyes his refuge , yet his time is short ; and god , even our god , will over all exalt his own name and truth , to the joy of all the upright-hearted . written in derby goal in the year . where i yet remain a prisoner . john gratton . matth. . . go preach , saying , the kingdom of heaven is at hand . luke . , . but into whatsoever city ye enter , and they receive you not , go your ways into the streets of the same , and say , even the dust of your city which cleaveth on us , we do wipe off against you ; notwithstanding , be ye assured of this , that the kingdom of god is come nigh unto you . the end . an apology for the church of england, with relation to the spirit of persecution for which she is accused burnet, gilbert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an apology for the church of england, with relation to the spirit of persecution for which she is accused burnet, gilbert, - . p. ; cm. s.n., [amsterdam? : ?] caption title. attributed to gilbert burnet, bishop of salisbury. cf. halkett & laing ( nd ed.). reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. church and state -- church of england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an apology for the church of england , with relation to the spirit of persecution : for which she is accused . i. one should think , that the behaviour of the english cl●rgy for some years past , and the present circumstances in which they are , should set them beyond slander , and by consequence above apologies ; yet since the malice of her enemies work against her with so much spight , and since there is no insinuation that carries so much malice in it , and that seems to have such colours of truth on it , as this of their having set on a s●vere persecution against the dissenters , of being still sowr'd with that leven , and of carrying the same implacable hatred to them , which the present reputation that they have gained , may put them in a further capacity of executing , if another revolution of affairs should again give them authority to set about it ; it seems necessary to examine it , and ●hat the rather , because some aggravate this so far , as if nothing were now to be so much dreaded as the church of england's getting out of her present distress . ii. if these imputations were charged on us only by those of the church of rome , we should not much wonder at it , for tho it argues a good degree of confidence , for any of that communion to declaim against the severities that have been put in practice among us , ●ince their little finger must be heavier than ever our loins were , and to whose scorpions our rods ought not to be compared ; yet after all , we are so much accustomed to their methods , that nothing from them can surprise us . to hear papists declare against persecution , and iesuits cry up liberty of conscienc● , are , we confess , unusual things : yet there are some degrees of shame , over which when people are once passed , all things become so familiar to them , that they can no more be put out of countenance . but it seems very strange to us , that so●e , who if they are to be believed , are strict to the severest forms and sub-divisions of the reformed religion , and that who some years ago were jealous of the smallest steps that the cour● made , when the danger was more remo●e ; and who cried out popery and persecution , when the design was so ma●●t that some well-meaning men could no● miss being deceived by the promises that were made , and the disguises that were put on ; that , i say , these very persons who were formerly so distrustful , should now when the mask is laid off , and the design is avowed , of a sudden grow to be so believing , as to throw off all distrust , and be so gulled as to betray all ; and expose us to the rage of those ▪ who must needs give some good words , till they have gone the round , and tried how effectually they can divide and deceive us , that ●o they may destroy us the more easily ; this is indeed somewhat extraordinary . they are not so ignorant as not to know , that popery cannot change its nature , and that cruelty and breach of faith to hereticks , a●e as necessary parts of that religion , as transubstantiation and the popes supremacy are ▪ if papists were not fools , they must give good words and fair promises , till by these they have so far deluded the poor credulous hereticks , that they may put themselves in a posture to execute the decrees of their church against them : and tho we accuse that religion as guilty both of cruelty and treachery , yet we do not think 'em fools : so till their party is stronger than god be thanked it is at present , they can take no other method than that they take . the church of england was the word among them some y●ars ago , liberty of conscience is the word at present ; and we have all possible reason to assure u● , that the promises for maintaining the one , will be as religiously kept as we see those are which were lately made with so great profusion of protestations , and shews of friendship for the supporting of the other . iii. it were great injustice to charge all the dissenters with the impertinencies that have appeared in many addresses of late , or ●o take our measures of them , from the impudent strains of an alsop or a care ▪ or from the more important and now more visible steps that some among them , of a higher form , are every day making ; and yet after all this , it cannot be denied but the several bodies of the dissenters have behaved themselves of late like men that understand too well the true interest of the protestant religion , and of the english government , to sacrifice the whole and themselves in conclusion to their private resentments : i hope the same justice will be allowed me in stating the matter relating to the so much decried persecution , set on by the ch. of eng. and that i may be suffered to distinguish the heats of some angry and deluded men , from the doctrine of the church ▪ and the practices that have been authorised in it ; that so i may shew , that there is no reason to infer from past errors , that we are incurable ; or that new opportunities inviting us again into the same severities , are like to prevail over us to commit the same follies over again . i will first state what i● past , with the sincerity that becomes one that would not lye for god ; that is , not afraid nor ashamed to confess faults , that will neither agrravate nor extenuate them beyond what is just ; and that yet will avoid the saying any thing that may give any cause of offence to any party in the nation . iv. i am sorry that i must confess , that all the parties among us , have shewed , that as their turn came to be uppermost , they have forgot the same principles of moderation and liberty which they all claimed when they were oppressed . if it sho●ld shew too much ill nature to examine what the presbytery did in scotland when the covenant was in dominion , or what the indepedents have done in new-england , why may not i claim the same priviledge with relation to the church of england , if severities have been committed by her while she bore rule ? yet it were as easie as it would be invidious to shew , th●t both presbyterians and independents have carried the principle of rigour in the point of conscience much higher , and have acted more implacably upon it than ever the church of england has done , even in its angriest fits ; so that none of them can much reproach another for their excesses in those matters . and as of all the religions in the world the church of rome the most persecuting , and the most bound by her principles to be unalterably cruel ; so the church of england is the least persecuting in her principles , and the least obliged to repeat any errors to which the intrigues of courts or the passions incident to all parties may have engaged her , of any national church in europe . it cannot be said to be any part of our doctrine ▪ when we came out of one of the blackest persecutions that is in history , i mean q maryes , we shewed how little we retained o● the cruelty of that church , which had provoked us so severely ; when not only no enquirie● were made into the illegal acts of fury , that were committed in that pe●secuting reign , but even the persecutors themselves lived among us at ease and in peace ; and no penal law was made ex●ept against publick exercise of that religion , till a great ma●y rebelions and treasons extorted them from us for our own preservation . this is an instance of the clemency of our church , that perhaps cannot be matched in history ▪ and why should it not be supposed , that if god should again put us in the state in which we were of late , that we should rather imitate so noble a patte●n , than return to those mistakes of which we are now ashamed ? v. it is to be considered , that upon the late kings restauration , the remembrance of the former war , the ill usage that our clergy had met with in their sequestrations , the angry resentments of the cavalier-party , who were ruined by the war , the interest of the court to have all those principle● condemned , that had occasioned it , the heat th●t all parties that have been ill used are apt to fall into upon a revolution ; but above all , the practices of those who have still blown the coals , and set us one against another , that so they might not only have a divided force to deal with , but might by turns make the divisins among us serve their ends : all these , i say , concurred to make us lose the happy opportunity that was offer'd in the year . to have healed all our divisions , and to have triumphed over all the dissenters ; not by ruining them , but by overcoming them with a spirit of love and gentleness ; which is the only vict●ry that a generous and christian temper can desi●e . in short , unhappy councils were followed , and several laws were made . but after all , it was the court-party that carried it for rougher methods : some considerble accidents , not necessary to be here mentioned , as they stopped the mouths of some that had formed a wiser project , so they gave a fatal advantage to angry and crafty men , that to our misfortune , had too great a stroak in th● conduct of our affairs at that time . this spirit of severity was heightned by the practices of the papists , who engaged the late king in december , . to give a declaration for liber●y of conscience . those who knew the secret of his religion , as they saw that it aimed at the introduction to popery , so they thought there was no way so effectual , for the keeping out of popery , as the maintaining the vniformity , and the suppressing of all designs for a toleration . but while those who managed this , used a due reserve , in not discovering the secret motive that led them to it , and others flew into seve●ity , as the principle in vogue : and thus all the slacknings of the rigour of the laws , during the first dutch war , that were set on upon the pretence of quieting the nation , and of encouraging trade , were resi●ted by the instruments of an honest minister of state , who knew as well then , as we do now , what lay still at bottom , when liberty of conscience was pretended . vi. upon that ministers disgrace , some that saw but the half of the s●cret , perceiving in the court a great inclination ●o toleration , and being willing to take measures quite different from those of the former ministry , they entred into a treaty for a comprehension of some dissenters , and the tolerating of others , and some bishops and clergymen , that were inferiour to none of the age in which they lived , for true worth and a right judgment of things , engaged so far , and with so much success into thi● project , that the matter seemed done , all thing● being concerted among some of the most considerable men of the differen● parties . but the dislike of that ministry , and the jealousie of the ill designs of the court , gave so stro●g a prejudice against this , that the proposi●ion could not be so much as hearkned unto by the house of commons : and then it appeared how much the whole popish party was alarm'd at the project : it is well known with how much detestation they speak of it to this day : tho we are now so fully satisfied of their intention● to destroy us , that the zeal which they pretended for us , in opposing that design , can no more pass upon us . vii . at last , in the year . the design for popery discovering it self , the end that the court had in favouring a toleration became more visible : and when the parliament met , that condemned the declaration for liberty of conscie●ce , the member● of the house of commons , that either were dissent●rs , or that favoured them , behaved themselves so worthily in concurring with the church of england , for stifling that toleration ▪ choosing rather to lose the benefit of it , th●n to open a breach at which pope●y should come in , that many of the members that were for ●he church of england , promised to procure them a bill o● ease for protestant dissenters . but the session was not long enough for bringing that to perfection ; and all the session● of that parliament af●er tha● , were spent in such a continual struggle between the court and countrey party , that there was never room given for calm and wise consultations : yet tho the party of the church of england did not pe●form what had been promised by some leading men to the dissenters , there was little or nothing done against them , after that , till the year . so that for about nine years together they had their meetings almost as publickly and as regularly as the church of englan● had their churches , and in all that time , whatsoever particular hardships any of them might have met with in some corners of england , it cannot be denied b●t they had the free exercise of their religion , at least in most parts . viii . in the year . things began to change their face : it is known , that upon the breaking out of the popish plot , the clergy d●d universally express a great desire for c●ming to some temper in the points of confo●mity : all so●ts and ran●s of the clergy seemed to be so well disposed towards it , that if it had met with a sutable entertainment , matters might probably have been in a greater measure composed . but the jealousie that those who managed the civil concerns of the nation in the house of commons , took off all that was done at court , or proposed by it , occasioned a fatal breach in our publick councils : in which division the clergy by their principles , and interests , and their disposition to believe well of the court were determined to be of the kings side . they thought it was a sin to mist●ust the late king● word , who assured them of his steadiness to the protestant religion so often , that they firmly depended on it : and his present majes●y gave them so many assurances of his maintaining ●till the church of england , that they believed him likewise : and so thought that the exclusion of him from the crown , was a degree of rigour to which they in conscience could not consent : upon which they were generally cried out on , as the betrayers of the nation , and of the protestant religion : those who demanded the exclusion , and some other securities , to which the bishops would not consent in parliament , looked on them a● the chief hindrance that was in their way : and the license of the press at that time was such , that many libels and some severe discourses were published against them . nor can it be denied , that many churchmen , who unde●stood not the principles of humane society , and the rules of our government , so well as other points of divinity , writ several t●eatises concerning the measures of submission , that were then as much censured , as their per●ormances since against popery have ●een deservedly admired . all this gave such a jealousie of them to the nation , that it m●st be confessed , that the spirit which was then in fermentation went very high against the church of england , as a con●ederate , at least , to popery and tyranny . nor were several of the nonconformists wanting to inflame this disli●e ; all sec●et propositions for accommodating our differences were so co●dly entertained , that they were scarce hearkned unto . the propositions which an eminent divine made even in his books writ against separation , shewed that while we maintained the war in the way of dispute , yet we were still willing to treat : ●or th● g●eat man made not those ●dv●●●es towa●ds t●em without consulting with his s●●eriours . yet we were then ●a●●lly gi●en up to a spirit of dis●ention : and t●o the parliament in . entred upon a project for healing ou● differences , in which great steps were made to the removing of all the occasions of our contest● ; the leaders of the dissenters , to the ama●ement of all pe●sons , made no account of this : and even seemed uneasie at it , of which the earl of nottingham and sir thomas clarges , that set on that bill with much zeal , can give a more particular account : all these things concurred to make those of the church of ●ngland conclude , a little too rashly , that the●r ruin was resolved on ; and then it was no wonder if the spirit of a party , the remembrance of the last war , the present prospect of danger , and above all , the great favour that was shewed them at court , threw them fatally into some angry and violent counsels ; self-preservation is very natural ▪ and it is plain , that many of them took that to be the case , so that truly spaeking , it was not so much at first a spirit of persecution , as a desire of disabling those who they believed intended to ruin them from eff●cting their designs , that set them on to all those unhappy things that followed . they were animated to all they did by the continued ear●estness of the king and duke , and of their m●nisters . that reproach of iustice , and of the p●ofession of the law , who is now so ●i●h , was singled out for no other end , but 〈◊〉 the●r common hangman over england ; o● whom the late k●ng gave t●is true character , that he had neither wit , law ▪ nor common sen●e ; b●t that he had the impud●nce of ten carted w●ores in him . another buffo●n , 〈…〉 to pl●gue the nation with three or four p●pers a week , whi●h to the reproach o● t●e age in which we live , had but too g●eat and too general an effect , for poysoning the spirits of the clergy . but those who knew how all this was managed , saw that it was not only set on , but still kept up by the court. if any of the clergy had but preached a word for moderation , he had a chiding sent him presently f●om the court , and he was from that day marked out as a disa●fected person : and when the clergy of london did very worthily refuse to give informations against their parishioner● that had not always conforme● , the design having been form'd , upon that to bring them into the spiritual courts , and excommunicate them , and make them lose their right of voting , that so the charter of london might have been delivered up when so many citizens were by such means shut out of the common-council ; we remember well how severely they were censured for this , by some that are now dead , and others that are yet alive . i will not go further into this matter : i will not deny but many o● the dissenters were put to great hardship● , in many parts of england . i cannot deny it , and i am sure i will never justifie i● . but this i will positively say , having observed it all narrowly , that he must have the brow of a iesuite , that can cast this wholly on the church of england , and free the court of it . the beginnings and the progress of it came from the court , and from the popish party : and tho perhaps every one does not ●now all the secrets of this matter , that others may have found out , yet no man was so ignorant as not to see what was the chief spring of all those irregular motions that some of us made at that time : so upon the whole matter , all that can be made out of this , is , that the pa●sions and infirmities of some of the church of england , being unhappily stirred up by the dissenters , they were fatally conducted by the popish party , to be the instruments in doing a great deal of mischief . ix . it is not to be doubted , but though some wea●er men of the clergy may perhaps still retain their little peevish animosities against the dissenters , yet the wiser and more serious heads of that great and worthy body , see now their error : they see who drove them on in it , till they hoped to have ruined them by it . and as they have appeared against popery , with as great a strength of learing , annd of firm steadiness as perhaps can be met with in all church-history , so it cannot be doubted , but their reflections on the dangers into which our divisions have thrown us , have given them truer notions with relation to a rigorous conformity : and that th● just detestation which they have expressed of the corruption● of the church of rome has led them to consider and a●hor one of the worst things in it , i mean their severity towards hereticks . and the ill ●se that they see the court ha● made of their zeal ●or supporting the crown , to justifie the subversion of our government that is now set on from some of their large and unwary expressions , will certainly make them hereafter more cautious in medling with poli●icks : the bishops have undo● their hands both disowned that wide extent of the pr●rogative , to the overturning of the law , and declared their disposition to come to a temper in the matters of conformity ; and there seems to be no doubt left of the sincerity of their intentions in that matter . their piety and vertue , and the prospect that they now have of suffering themselves , put us beyond all doubt as to their sincerity , and if ever god in his providence brings us again into a setled state , out of the storm into which our passions and folly , as well as the treach●ry of others has brought us , it cannot be imagined , that the bishops will go off from those moderate resolutions , which they have now declared ▪ and they continuing fir● to them , the weak and indiscreet pa●sions of any of the inferiour clergy , must needs vanish , when they are under the conduct of wise and worthy leaders . and i will boldly say this , that if ●he church of england , after she has got out of this storm , will return to hearken to the peevishness of some sour men , she will be abandoned bo●h of god and man , and will set both heaven and earth against her the nation sees too visibly , how dear the dispute about conformity has co●t us , to stand any more upon such punctilio's : and those in whom our deliverance is wrapt up , understand this matter too well , and judge too right of it , to imagin that ever they will be priestridden in this point ▪ so that all considerations con●ur to make us conclude , that the●e is no danger of our splitting a second time upon the same rock : and indeed , if any argument we●● wanting to complea● the certainty of this point ▪ tha wise and generous behaviour of the main body of the dissenters , in thi● present juncture , has given them so just a title to our friendship , that we must resolve to set all the world against us , if we can ever forget it ; and if we do not make them all the returns of ease and favour , when it is in our power to do it . x. it is to be hoped , that when this is laid together , it will have that effect on all sober and true protestants , as to make them forget the little angry heats that have been among us , and even to forget the injuries that have been done us : all that we do now one against another , is to shorten the work of our enemies , by destroying one another , which must in conclusion turn to all our ruin. it is a madmans revenge to des●roy our friends that we may do a pleasure to our enemies , upon their giving us some good words ; and if the diss●nters can trust to papists , after the usage that the church of england ha● met with at their hands , all the comfort that they can promise themselves , when popery begins to act it● natural part among us , and to set smithfield again in a fire , is that which befel some quakers at rome , who were first put into the inquisition , but were afterwards removed to bedlam : so tho those false brethren among the dissenters , who de●eive them at present , are certainly no changlings , but know vvell vvhat they are doing ; yet those vvho can be chated by them , may vvell claim the priviledge of a b●dlam , vvhen their folly has left them no other ret●eat . xi . i vvill not digress too far from my present pu●pose ; nor enter into a discussion of the dispensing power , vvhich vvas so effectually overthrown the other day at the kings-bench-bar , that i am sure all the authority of the b●nch it self is no more able to support it : yet some late papers in favour of it , give me occasion to add a litt●e relating to that point . it is ●rue , the assertor of the dis●ensing power , who has lately appeared wi●h allowance , pretends , that it can only be applyed to the test for publick employments ▪ for he owns , that the test for both houses of parliament is left e●tire , as not within the compass of this extent of the prerogative : but another writer , whom by his sense we must conclude an irish man , by his brow a iesuit , and by the bare designation in the title page , of iames stewarts letter , a quaker , goes a strain higher , and thinks the king is so ●bsolutely the soveraign as to the legislative part of our government , that he may dissolve even the parliament test ▪ so nimbly has he leapt from being a secretary to a rebellion , to be an advocate for tyranny . he fancies , that because no parliament can bind up another , therefore they cannot limit the preliminaries to a subsequent parliament . but upon what i● it then , that counties have but two knights , and burroughs as many ▪ that men below such a value have no vote , that sheriffs only receive writs and return elections , besides many more necessary requisites to the making a legal parliament . in short , if laws do not regulate the election and constitution of a parliament , all these things may be overthrown , and the king may cast the whole government in a new mould , as well as dissolve the obligation that is on the members of parliament for taking the test. it is true , that as soon as a parliament is legally met and constituted , it is tyed by no laws , so far as not to repeal th●m : but t●e preliminaries to a parliament are still sacred , as long as the law stands that setled them : for the members are still in the quality of ordinary subjects , and not entred upo● their share in the legislative power , till they are constituted in a parliament legally chosen and lawfully assembled , that i● , having observed all the requisites of the law. but i le●ve that impudent letter to return to the most apology that has been yet writ for the dispensing power . it yields that the king cannot abrogate laws , and pretends only that he can dispense with them : and the distinction it puts between abrogation and dispensation , is , that the one is a total repeal of the law , and that the other is only a slackning of its obligatory fo●ce , with relation to a particular man or to any body of men ; so that according to him , a simple abrogation , or a total repeal , is beyond the compass of the prerogative . i desire then that this doctrine may be applyed to the following words of the declaration ; from which the reader may infer whether these do import a simple abrogation , or no● , and by consequence , if the declaration is not illegal ; we do hereby further declare , that it is our royal will and pleasure that the oaths commonly called the oaths of supremacy and allegeance , and also the several tests and declarations — shall not at any time hereafter , be required to be taken , declared , or subscribed by any person or persons whatsoever , who is or shall be imployed in any office or place of trust , either civil or military , under us or in our government , this is plain english , and needs no commentary . that paper offers likewise an expedient for securing liberty of conscience , by which it will be set beyond even the dispensing power ; and that is , that by act of parliament all persecution may be declared to be a thing evil in it self , and then the prerogative canno● reach it . but unless this author fancies , that a parliament is that which those of the church of rome believe a general council to be , i mean infallible , i do not see that such an act would signify any thing at all . an act of parliament cannot change the nature of things which are sullen , and will not alter , because a hard wor● is clapt on th●m in an act of parliament ; nor can that m●ke that which is not evil of it self become evil of it self : for can any act of parliament make the clipping of money , or the not burying in wo●llen evil of it self ? such an act were in●eed null of it self , and would sink with its own weight ▪ even without the burden of the prerogative to press it down : and yet upon such a sandy foundation would these men have us build all our hopes and our securi●ies . another topick like this , is , that we ought to trust to the truth of our religion , and the providence and protection of god , and not to lean so much to laws and tests . all this were very pertinent , if god had not already given us human● assurances against the rage of our enemies , which we are now desired to abandon , that so we may fall an easie and cheap sacrifice to those who wait for the favourable moment to destroy us : by the same reason they may perswade us to take off all our doors , or at least all our locks and bol●s , and to sleep in this exposed condition , trusting to gods protection : the simily may appear a little too high , tho it is really short of the matter ; for we had better trust our selves to all the thieves and robbers of the town , who would be perhaps contented with a part of our goods , than to those whose designs are equally against both soul and body , and all that is dear to us . xii . i will only add another reflexion upon the renewing of the declara●ion this year , which has occasioned the present ●●orm upon the clergy . it is repeated to 〈◊〉 that so we may see ●hat the king continues firm to the promises he made la●t year . yet when men of honour have once given their word , they take it ill if any do not trust to that , but must needs have it repeated to them : in the ordinary commerce of the world , the repeating of promises over and over again , is ●ather a ground of suspition than of confidence , and if w● judge of the accompli●hment of all t●e other parts of the d●●laration , from th●t o●e ▪ which relates to ●he m●intaining of the church of england ▪ as b● law established , the proceedings again●t the fellows of magdalen colledge , gives us no reason to conclude , that this will be like the laws of the medes and persians , which alter not : all the talk of the new magna charta cannot lay us asleep ▪ when we see so little regard had to the old one . as for the security which is offe●ed us in this repeating of the kings promise● , we must crave leave to remember , that the king of france , even after he had resolved to break the edict of nantes , yet repeated in above an hundred edicts , that were real and visible violations of that edict , a clause con●irmatory of the edict of nantes , declaring that he would never violate it : and in that we may see what account is to be had of all promises made to hereticks , in matter● of religion , by any prince of the roman commu●ion , but more particularly by a prince who has put the conduct of his consciince in the hands of a iesuite . finis . a seasonable discourse shewing the unreasonableness and mischeifs [sic] of impositions in matters of religion recommended to serious consideration / by a learned pen. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a seasonable discourse shewing the unreasonableness and mischeifs [sic] of impositions in matters of religion recommended to serious consideration / by a learned pen. learned pen. p. printed and are to be sold by r. baldwin, london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- great britain. church and state -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a seasonable discourse , shewing the unreasonableness and mischeifs of impositions in matters of religion , recommended to serious consideration . by a learned pen. london , printed and are to be sold by r. baldwin . . a seasonable discourse the christian religion , as first instituted by our blessed saviour , was the greatest security to magistrates by the obedience which it taught , and was fitted to enjoy no less security under them by a practice conformable to that doctrine . for our saviour himself , not pretending to an earthly kingdom , took such case therefore to instruct his followers in the due subjection to governors ; that , while they observed his precepts , they could neither fall under any jealousy of state as an ambitious and dangerous party , nor , as malefactors upon any other account , deserve to suffer under the publick severity : so that in this only it could seem pernicious to goverment , that christanity , if rightly exercised upon its own principles , would render all magistracy useless . but although he , who was lord of all , and to whom all power was given beth in heaven and in earth , was nevertheless contented to come in the form of a servant , and to let the emperors and princes of the world alone with the use of their dominions ; he thought it good reason to retain his religion under his own cognizance , and exempt its authority from their jurisdiction . in this alone he was imperious , and did not only practise it himself against the laws and customs then received , and in the face of the magistrate ; but continually seasoned and hardned his disciples in the same confidence and obstinacy . he tells them , they shall be brought before kings and governours for his name , but sear them not , he will be with them , bear them out , and justify it against all opposition . nor that he allowed them hereby to violate their duty to the puplick , by any resistance in defiance of the magistracy ; but he instructed and animated them in their duty to god , in dispight of suffering . in this manner christanity did at first set out , and accordingly found reception . for although our blessed saviour , having fulfilled all righteousness , and the time of his ministry being compleated , did by his death set the seal to his doctrine , and shew the way toward life and immortality to such belivers as imitate his example : yet did not the heathen magistrate take the government to be concerned in point of religion , or upon that acount consent to his execution . pontious pilate , then governour of iudea , though he were a man unjust and cruel by nature , and served tiberius , the most tender , jealous and severe in point of state or prerogative , of all the roman emperors ; though he understood that great multitudes followed him , and that he was grown the head of a new sect that was never before heard of in the nation , yet did not he intermeddle . but they were the men of religion , the chief priests , scribes and elders , and the high priest caiphas . and yet , altho they accused him falsly , that he taught that tribute was not to be given to caesar , that he was a fifth monarch , and made himself a king , and ( as it is usual for some of the clergy to terrifie the inferiour magistrates out of their duty to justice , out of pretence of loyalty to the prince ) threatned pilate , that if he let that man go he was not caesar's friend ; he understanding that they did it out of envy , and that the justice and innocence of our saviour was what they could not bear with , would have adventured all their informing at court , and first have freed him , and then have exchanged him for barrabas ; saying , that he found no fault in him : but he was overborn at last by humane weakness , and poorly imagined that by washing his own hands he had expiated himself , and wiped off the guilt upon those alone who were the occasion , but , as for tiberius himself , the growth of christianity did never increase , his cares of empire at rome , nor trouble his sleep at capreae : but he both approved of the doctrine , and threatned the informers with death ; nor would he have staid there , but attempted , according to the way of their superstition , upon the intelligence from pilate , to have received christ into the number of their deities . the persecution of the apostles after his death , and martyrdom of stephen , hap'ned not by the interposing of the civil magistrate in the matter of religion , or any disturbance occasioned by their doctrines : but arose from the high priest and his emissaries , by suborned witnesses , stirring up the rabble in a brutish & riotous manner to execute their cruelty . how would the modern clergy have taken & represented it , had they lived in the time of st. iohn baptist , and seen ierusalem , iudaea , and all the region round about jordan go out to be baptized by him ! yet that herod , for any thing we read in scripture , though he wanted not his instillers , apprehended no commotion : and had not caligula banished him and his herodias together , might in all appearance have lived without any change of goverment . t was she that caused iohn's imprisonment for the conveniency of her incest . herod indeed feared him , but rather reverenced him , as a just man and an holy , observed him , and when he heard him , he did many things and heard him gladly . nor could all her subtilty have taken off his head , but that herod thought himself under the obligation of a dance and an oath , and knew not in that case they ought both to be dispensed with . but he was exceeding sorry at his death , which few princes are if men lived to their jealousie or danger . the killing of iames , and imprisonment of peter by that herod , was because he saw he pleased the people , when the priesls had once set them on madding : a complaisance to which the most innocent may be exposed , but which partake more of guile then civility or wisdom . but to find out what the disinteressed and prudent men of those days took to be the wisest and only justifiable way for the magistrate to proceed in upon matters of religion ; i cannot see any thing more pregnant than the concurrent judgment of three persons , of so different characters , and that lived so far asunder , that there can be no danger of their having corrupted one anothers understanding in favour to christianity . gamaliel , the deputy of acaia , and the town-clerk of ephesus ; the first a jewish doctor , by sect a pharisee , one of the council , and of great authority with the people , who ( when the chief priest had cast the apostles in prison , and charged them for preaching against the command he had before laid upon them ) yet gave this advice , confirming it with several fresh precedents , acts . that they should take heed to themselves what they intended to do with those men , and let them alone ; for if this counsel , saith he , or this work be of men , it will come to nought , but if it be of god you cannot overthrow it , lest ye be found fighting with god. so that his opinion grounded upon his best experience , was that the otherwise unblameable sect of christianity might safely , and ought to be left to stand or fall by god's providence under a free toleration of the magistrate . the second was gallio , acts . a roman , and deputy of achaia . the iews at corinth hurried paul before his tribunal , laying the usual charge against him , that he persuaded men to worship god contrary to the law , which gallio looked upon as so slight and without his cognizance , that altho most judges are willing to encrease the jurisdiction of their courts , he drave them away , saving paul the labour of a defence , and told them , if it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdness , reason would that he should bear with them ; but if it be a question of words and names , and of your law , look ye to it , i will be iudg of no such matters : and when he had so said , paul was released ; but the greeks that were present took barnabas , and before the judgment seat beat sosthene ; the chief ruler of the synagogue , and ringleader of the accusers . his judgment therefore was that , to punish christians meerly for their doctrine & practice , unless they were malefactors otherwise , was a thing out of the magistrates province , and altogether unreasonable . the third case was no less remarkable : for one demetrius , that was a silversmith by trade , & made shrines for diana , stirred up all the freemen of his company against paul , and indeed he stated the matter very fairly and honestly , assigning the true reason of most of these persecutions : ye know that by this craft we have our wealth , but that by paul ' s preaching that they be no gods which are made with hands , not only our craft is in danger to be set at nought , but also the temple of the great goddess and her magnificence , whom all asia and the world worship , should be despised and destroyed . and it is considerable , that even the iews , tho of a contrary religion , yet fomented , as it usually chances , this difference , and egg'd the ephesians on against the apostle and his followers . but when they had brought alexander , one of paul's companions , into the theatre , the recorder of ephesus ( more temperate and wise than some would have been in that office ) would not make an inquisition upon the matter , nor put alexander upon his trial and desence , but ( altho he himself could not have born that office without being a great dianist , as he declared too in his discourse ) he tells the people , they had brought those men which were neither robbers of churches , nor blasphemers of their goddess , ( for that judg would not condemn men by any inferences or expositions of old statutes , which long after was iulian's practice , and since imitated ) ; and therefore if demetrius and his craftsmen had any matter against them , the law was open , and it should be determined in a lawful assembly ; but that the whole city was in danger to be called in question for that vproar , there being no cause whereby they might give account of that concourse . and by this he plainly enough signified , that if paul and his companions had stoln the church plate , they might well be indicted ; but that demetrius had no more reason in law against them , than a chandler might have had , if by paul's preaching wax tapers as well as silver candlesticks had grown out of fashion . that it is matter of right and wrong , betwixt man and man , that the justice of government looks too : but that , while christianity was according to its own principle carried on quietly , it might so fall that the disturbers of it were guilty of a riot , and their great city of ephesus deserved to be fined for it . and taking this to have been so , he dismist the assembly , acts . after these testimonies which i have collected out of the history of the acts , as of greatest authority , i shall only add one or two more out of the same book , wherein paul likewise was concerned before heathen magistrates of greater eminence , acts . ananias the high priest ( these always were the men ) having countenanced and instigated the iews to a conspiracy , in which paul's life was endangered and aimed at ; lysias the chief captain of ierusalem interposes and sends him away to foelix then governor of iudaea ; signifying by letter , that he had been accused only of questions of their law , but he found nothing to be laid to his charge worthy of death or of bonds ; whereof foelix also , tho the high priest was so zealous in the prosecution , that he took a journey on purpose , and had instructed an exquisite orator tertullus to harangue paul out of his life , as a pestilent fellow , a mover of sedition , and a ring-leader of the sect of the nazarenes , not omitting even to charge lysias for rescuing him by great violence from being murdered by them , was so well satisfied of the contrary , upon full hearing , that he gave him his liberty , and a centurion for his guard , with command that none of his acquaintance should be debarred from coming and ministring to him . but being indeed to leave his government afterwards , left him in prison , partly to shew the iews and their high priest another piece of complaisant policy , which , 't is possible they paid well for , seeing the other reason was , because tho he had sent for paul the oftner , and communed with him , in hopes that he would have given him mony to be discharged , there came nothing of it . which was so base a thing in so great a minister , that the meanest justice of the peace in england would scarce have the face to do so upon the like occasion . but his successor festus , having called agrippa and bernice to hear the cause , they all three were of opinion , that it was all on the iews side calumny and impertinence , but that paul had done nothing worthy of death or of bonds , and might have been set free , but that having appealed to caesar , he must be transmitted to him in safe custody . such was the sence of those upon whom the emperors then relied for the government and security of their provinces : and so gross were their heathen understandings , that they could not yet comprehend how quietness was sedition , or the innocence of the christian worship could be subject to forfeiture or penalty . nay , when paul appeared even before nero himself , and had none to stand by him , but all forsook him : he was by that emperor acquitted , and permitted a long time to follow the work of his ministry . 't is true , that afterwards this nero had the honour to be the first of the roman emperors that persecuted christianity ; whence it is that tertullian in his apologetick saith ; we glory in having such a one the first beginner and author of our punishment , for there is none that hath read of him , but must understand some great good to have been in that doctrine , otherwise nero would not have condemned it . and thenceforward christianity for about three hundred years lay subject to persecution . for the gentile priests could not but observe a great decay in their parishes , a neglect of their sacrifices , and diminution of their profit by the daily and visible increase of that religion . and god in his wise providence had so ordered , that , as the iews already , so the heathens now having filled up their measure with iniquity , sprinkling the blood of his saints among their sacrifices , and the christians having in a severe apprentiship of so many ages learned the trade of suffering , they should at last be their own masters and admitted to their freedom . neither yet , even in those times when they lay exposed to persecution , were they without some intervals and catching seasons of tranquillity , wherein the churches had leisure to reap considerable advantage , and the clergy too might have been inured , as they had been exemplary under affliction , so to bear themselves like christians when they should arrive at a full prosperity . for as oft as there came a just heathen emperor and a lover of mankind , that either himself observed , or understood by the governours of his provinces , the innocence of their religion and practices , their readiness to pay tribute , their prayers for his goverment and person , their faithful service in his wars , but their christian valour and contumacy to death , under the most exquisite torments , for their holy profession ; he forthwith relented , he rebated the sword of the executiner , and could not find in his heart or in his power to exercise it against the exercise of that religion . it being demonstrable that a religion instituted upon justice betwixt man and man ; love to one another , yea even their enemies , obedience to the magistrate in all humane and moral matters , and in divine worship upon a constant exercise thereof , and as constant suffering in that cause , without any pretence or latitude for resistance , cannot , so long as it is true to it self in these things , fall within the magistrate's jurisdiction . but as it first was planted without the magistrates hand , and the more they plucked at it , so much the more still it flourished , so it will be to the end of the world , and whensoever governors have a mind to try for it , it will by the same means and method sooner or later spoil them , but if they have a mind to pull up that mandrake , it were advisable for them not to do it themselves , but to chuse out a dog for the imployment . i confess whensoever a christian transgresses these bounds once , he is impoundable , or like a waif and stray whom christ knows not , he falls to the lord of the mannor . but otherwise he cannot suffer , he is invulnerable by the sword of justice : only a man may swear and damn himself to kill the first honest man he meets , which hath been and is the case of all true christians worshipping god under the power and violence of their persecutors . but the truth is , that even in those times which some men now , as oft as it is for their advantage , do consecrate under the name of primitive , the christians were become guilty of their own punishment , & had it not been , as is most usual , that the more sincere professors suffered promiscuously for the sins and crimes of those that were carnal and hypocrites , their persecutors may be looked upon as having been the due administrators of god's justice . for ( not to go deeper ) if we consider but that which is reckoned the tenth persecution under dioclesian , so incorrigible were they after nine preceding , what other could be expected when , as eusebius l. . c. . sadly laments , having related how before that the christians lived in great trust and reputation in court , the bishops of each church were beloved esteemed and reverenced by all mankind , and by the presidents of the provinees , the meetings in all the cities were so many and numerous , that it was necessary and allowed them to erect in every one spacious and godly churches ; all things went on prosperousty with them , and to such an height , that no envious man could disturb them , no devil could hurt them , as long as walking yet worthy of those mercies they were under the almighty's care and protection : after that our affairs by that too much liberty , degenerated into luxury and laziness , and some prosecuted others with hatred and contumely , and almost all of us wounded our selves with the weapons of the tongue in ill language , when bishops set upon bishops , and the people that belonged to one of them , stirred sedition against the people of another ; then horrible hypocrisie and dissimulation sprung up to the utmost extremity of malice , and the iudgment of god , while yet there was liberty to meet in congregations , did sensibly and by stops being to visit us , the persecution at first discharging it self upon our brethren that were in the army . but we having no feeling of the hand of god , not endeavouring to make our peace with him , and living as if we believed that god did neither take notice of our transgressions , nor would visit us for them , we heaped up iniquity upon iniquity . and those which seemed to be our pastors , kicking under-foot the rules of piety , were inflamed among themselves with mutual contention , and while they minded nothing else but to exaggerate their quarrels , threats , emulation , hatred and enmities , and earnestly each of them pursued his particular ambition in a tyrannical manner , then indeed the lord , then i say , according to the voice of the prophet jeremy , he covered the daugheer of sion with a cloud in his anger , and cast down from heaven to earth the beauty of israel , and remembred not his footstool in the day of his anger . and so the pious historian pathetically goes on , and deplores the calamities that in sued , to the loss of all that stock of reputation , advantage , liberty and safety , which christian people had by true plety , and adhering strictly to the rules of their profession formerly acquired & injoyed , but had now forfeited , and smartly and defervedly suffered under dioclesian's persecution . and it was a severe one , the longest too that ever happened , ten years from his beginning of it , and continued by others : by which time one might have thought the church would have been sufficiently winnowed , and nothing left but the pure wheat , whereas it proved quite contrary , and the holiest and most constant of the christians being blown away by martyrdom , it seem'd by the succeeding times , as if nothing but the chaff and the tares had remained . but there was yet such a seed left ; and notwithstanding the defection of many , so internal a vertue in the religion it self , that dioclosian could no longer stand against it , and tired out in two years time , was glad to betake himself from rooting out christianity to gardening , and to sow pot-herbs at salona . and he with his partner maximiamus , resigned the empire to galerius and constantius , the excellent father of a more glorious and christian son , constantine the great , who in due season succeeded him , and by a chain of god's extraordinry providence , seemed to have been let down from heaven to be the emperor of the whole world , and as i may say , the universal apostle of christianity . it is unexpressible the vertue of that prince , his care , his indulgence , his liberality , his own example , every thing that could possibly tend to the promotion and incouragement of true religion and piety . and in order to that he thought he could not do better , neither indeed could he , then to shew a peculiar respect to the clergy and bishops , providing largely for their subsistence , had they too on their part behaved themselves worthy of their high calling , and known to make right use of the advantages of his bounty to the same ends that they were by him intended . for if the apostle , tim. . . requires that an elder , provided he rule well , be accounted worthy of double honour , especially those who labour in the word and dactrine , it excludes not a decuple or any further proportion , and indeed there cannot too high a value be set upon such a person : and god forbid too that any measure of wealth should render a clergy-man uncanonical . but alas , bishops were already grown another name and thing , than at the apostles institution ; and had so altered the property , that paul would have had much difficulty by all the marks in the tim. . to have known them . they were ill enough under persecution many of them , but that long and sharp winter under dioclesian , being seconded by so warm a summer under constantine , produced a pestilence , which as an infection that seizes sometimes only one sort of cattol , diffused it self most remarkably thorow the whole body of the clergy . from his reign the most sober historians date that new disease which was so generally propagated then , and ever since transmitted to some of their successors , that it hath given reason to enquire whether it only happened to those men as it might to others , or were not inherent to the very function . it show'd it self first in ambition , then in contention , next in imposition , and after these symptoms broke out at last like a plague-sore in open persecution . they the bishops who began to vouch themselves the successors of christ , or at least of his apostles , yet pretended to be heirs and executors of the iewish high priests , and the heathen tyrants , and were ready to prove the will. the ignorant iews and infidels understood not how to persecute , had no commission to meddle with religion , but the bishops had studied the scriptures , knew better things , and the same , which was cruelty and tyranny in the heathens , if done by a christian and ecclesiastical hand , was allowed to be church-government , and the care of a diocess . but that i may not seem to speak without book , or out-run the history , i shall return to proceed by those degrees i newly mention'd , whereby the christian religion was usurped upon , and those things became their crime which were their duties . the first was the ambition of the bishops , which had even before this , taken its rise , when in the intervals of the former persecutions the piety of the christians had laid out ample provisions for the church ; but when constantine not only restored those which had been all consiscate under dioclesian , but was every day adding some new possession , priviledge , or honour , a bishoprick became very desirable , and was not only a good work , but a good thing , especially when there was no danger of paying as it was usual , formerly their first-fruits to the emperor by martyrdom . the arts by which ambition climes , are calumny , cruelty , bribery , adulation , all applied in their proper places and seasons ; and when the man hath attained his end , he ordinarily shows himself then in his colours , in pride , opiniastry , contention , and all other requisit or incident ill qualities . and if the clergy of those times had some more dextrous and innocent way than this of managing their ambition , it is to be lamented inter artes deperditas , or lies enviously hid by some musty book-worm in his private library . but so much i find , that both before , and then , and after , they cast such crimes at one another , that a man would scarce think he were reading an history of bishops , but a legend of devils : and each took such care to blacken his adversary , that he regarded not how he smutted himself thereby , and his own order , to the laughter or horror of the by-standers . and one thing i remark particularly , that as son of a whore is the modern word of reproach among the laity , of the same use then among the clergy was heretick . there were indeed hereticks as well as there are bastards , and perhaps it was not their fault , ( neither of 'em could help it ) but the mothers or the fathers ; but they made so many hereticks in those days , that 't is hard to think they really believ'd them so , but adventur'd the name only to pick a quarrel . and one thing that makes it very suspicious , is , that in ecclesiastical history , the ringleader of any heresy is for the most part accused of having a mind to be a bishop , though it was not the way to come to it . as there was the damnable heresie of the novatians , against which constantine , notwithstanding his declaration of general indulgence at his coming in , was shortly after so incensed , that he published a most severe proclamation against them ; cognoscite jam per legem hanc quae à me sancita est , o novatiani , &c. prohibiting all their meetings , not only in publick , but in their own private houses ; and that all such p●aces where they assembled for their worship , should be rased to the ground without delay or controversy , &c. eus. . . c. . de vita constantini . now the story the bishops tell of novatus the author of that sect , euseb. . l. . c. . is in the words of cornelius the bp of rome , the very first line ; but that you may know that this brave novatus did even before that affect to be a bishop , ( a great crime in him ) that he might conceal that petulant ambition , he for a better cover to his arrogance , had got some confessors into his society , &c. and goes on calling him all to nought ; but then ( saith he ) he came with two reprobates of his own heresy into a little , the very least , shire of italy : and by their means seduced three most simple high-shoon bishops , wheedling them that they must with all speed go to rome , and there meeting with other bishops , all matters should be reconciled . and when he had got thither these three silly fellows , as i said , that were not aware of his cunning , he had prepared a company of rogues , like himself , that treated them in a private room very freely ; and having thwack'd their bellies and heads full with meat and drink , compell'd the poor drunken bishops , by an imaginary and vain imposition of hands , to make novatus also a bishop . might not one of the same order now better have conceal'd these things , had they been true ? but such was the discretion . then he tells , that one of the three returned soon after , repenting it seems next morning , and so he receiv'd him again into the church , unto the laick communion . but for the other two , he had sent successors into their places . and yet after all this ado , and the whetting of constantine , contrary to his own nature , and his own declarations against the novatians , i cannot find their heresy to have been other , than that that were the puritans of those times , and a sort of non-conformists , that could have subscribed to the six and thirty articles , but differed only in those of discipline : and upon some enormities therein separated , and ( which will always be sufficient to qualify an heretick ) they instituted bishops of their own in most places . and yet afterwards , in the time of the best homoousian emperors , a sober and strictly religious people did so constantly adhere to them , that the bishops of the church too found meet to give them fair quarter ; for as much as they differ'd not in the fundamentals , and therefore were of use to them against hereticks that were more dangerous and diametrically opposite to the religion . nay insomuch , that even the bishop of constantinople , yea of rome , notwithstanding that most tender point and interest of episcopacy , suffered the novatian bishops to walk cheek by joul with them in their own diocess ; until that , as socr. l. . c. . the roman episcopacy having , as it were , passed the boands of priesthood , slip'd into a secular principality , and thenceforward the roman bishops would not suffer their meetings with security ; but , though they commended them for their consent in the same faith with them , yet took away all their estates . but at constantinople they continued to fare better , the bishops of that church embracing the novatians , and giving them free liberty to keep their conventicles in their churches . what , and to have their bishops too , altar against altar ? a condescension , which as our nonconformists seem not to desire or think of , so the wisdom of these time ; would , i suppose , judg to be very unreasonable , but rather that it were sit to take the other course ; and that whatsoever advantage the religion might probably receive from their doctrine & party , 't is better to suppress them , and make havock both of their estates and persons . but however , the hereticks in constantine's time had the less reason to complain of ill measure , seeing it was that the bishops meted by among themselves . i pass over that controversy betwixt cecilianus the bishop of carthage , and his adherents , with another set of bishops there in africk ; upon which , constantine ordered ten of each party to appear before miltiades the bishop of rome , and others , to have it decided . yet after they had given sentence , constantine found it necessary to have a council for a review of the business , as in his letter to crestus the bishop of syracuse , euseb. l. . c. . whereas several have formerly separated from the catholick heresy , ( for that word was not yet so ill natured , but that it might sometimes be used in its proper and good sense ) ; and then relates his commission to the bishop of rome , and others ; but forasmuch as some having been careless of their own salvation , and forgetting the reverence due to that most holy heresy , ( again ) will not yet lay down their enmity , nor admit the sentence that hath bin given , obstinately affirming , that they were but a few that pronounced the sentence , and that they did it very precipitately , before they had duly enquired of the matter ; and from thence it hath happened , that both they who ought to have kept a brotherly and unanimous agreement together , do abominably and flagitionsly dissent from one another ; and such whose minds are alienated from the most holy religion , do make a mockery boih of it and them . therefore i , &c. have commanded very many bishops , out of innumerable places , to meet at arles , that what ought to have been quieted upon the former sentence pronounced , may now at least be determind , &c. and you to be one of them ; and therefore i have ordered the prefect of sicily to furnish you with one of the publick stage-coaches , and so many servants , &c. such was the use then of stage-coaches , post-horses , and councils , to the great disappointment and grievance of the many , both men and horses , and leather being hackney , hackney , jaded , and worn out upon the errand of some contentions and obstinate bishop . so went the affairs hitherto , and thus well disposed and prepared were the bishops to receive the holy ghost a second time , at the great and first general council of nice , which is so much celebrated . the occasions of calling it were two . the first a most important question , in which the wit and piety of their predecessors , and now theirs successively had been much exercised and taken up : that was upon what day they ought to keep easter ; which tho it were no point of faith that it should be kept at all , yet the very calendary of it , was controverted with the same zeal , and made as heavy ado in the church , as if both parties had been hereticks . and it is reckon'd by the church historians , as one of the chief felicities of constantine's empire , to have quieted in that council this main controversy . the second cause of the assembling them here , was indeed grown , as the bishops had order'd it , a matter of the greatest weight and consequence to the christian religion ; one arrius having , as is related ▪ to the disturbance of the church , started a most pernicious opinion in the point of the trinity . therefore from all parts of the empire , they met together at the city of nice , bishops , and better , saith eusebius a goodly company ; say others ; and the animadverter too , with that pithy remark , pag. . equal almost to the number of servants bred up in the house of abraham . the emperor had accommodated them every where with the publick posts , or laid horses all along for the convenience of their journey thither ; and all the time they were there , supplied them abundantly with all sorts of provision at his own charges . and when they were all first assembled in council , in the great hall of the imperial palace , he came in , having put on his best clothes , to make his guests welcome ; and saluted them with that profound humility , as if they all had been emperors , nor would sit down in his throne ; no , it was a very little & low stool ▪ till they had all beckoned & made signs to him to sit down . no wonder if the first council of nice run in their heads ever after , and the ambitious clergy , like those who have been long a-thirst , took so much of constantine's kindness , that they are scarce come to themselves again , after so many ages . the first thing was that he acquainted them with the causes of his summoning them thither , and in a grave and most christian discourse , exhorted them to keep the peace , or to a good agreement , as there was reason . for ( saith russin . . . c. . ) the bishops being met here from almost all parts , and as they use to do , bringing their quarrels about several matters along with them , every one of them was at the emperor , offering him petitions , laying out one anothers faults , ( for all the good advice he had given them ) and were more intent upon these things , than upon the business they were sent for . but he , considering that by these scoldings and bickerings , the main affair was frustrated , appointed a set-day by which all the bishops should bring him in whatsoever complaint they had against one another . and they being all brought , he made them that high asiatick complement ; god hath made you priests , and hath given you power to judg me , and therefore it is in you to judg me righteously ; but you cannot be judged by any men. it is god only can judg you , and therefore reserve all your quarrels to his tribunal . for you are as gods to me , and it is not convenient that a man should judg of gods , but he only of whom it is written , god standing in the congregation of the gods , and discerneth in the midst of them . and therefore setting these things aside , apply your minds , without any contention , to the concernments of god's religion . and so , without opening or reading one petition , commanded them altogether to be burnt there in his presence . an action of great charity and excellent wisdom , had but some of the words been spared . for doubtless , tho they that would have complained of their burthen , grumbled a little ; yet those that were accusable were all very well satisfied : and those expressions , you can judg me right eously , and , you cannot be judged by any man ; and , god only can judg you . you are gods to me , &c. were so extreamly sweet to most of the bishops palates , that they believ'd it , and could never think of them afterwards , but their teeth watered ; and they ruminated so long on them , that constantine's successors came too late to repent it . but now the bishops having mist of their great end of quarelling one with another , betake themselves , tho somewhat aukwardly , to business . and it is necessary to mine , that as shortly as possible for the understanding of it , i give a cursory account of alexander and arrius , with some few others that were the most interessed in that general & first great revolution of ecclesiastical affairs , since the days of the apostles . this alexander was the bishop of alexandria , and appears to have been a pious old man , but not equally prudent , nor in divine things of the most capable , nor in conducting the affairs of the church very dextrous , but he was the bishop . this character that i have given of him , i am the more confirm'd in from some passages that follow , and all of them pertinent to the matter before me . they were used , sozem. l. . c. . at alexandria , to keep yearly a solemn festival to the memory of peter , one of their former bishops , upon the same day that he suffered martyrdom , which alexander having celebrated at the church , with publick devotion , was sitting after at home , expecting some guests to dine with him , sozom. . . c. . as he was alone , and looking towards the sea-side , he saw a pretty way off , the boys upon the beach at an odd recreation , imitating it seems the rites of the church , and office of the bishops ; and was much delighted with the sight , as long as it appear'd an innocent and harmless representation : but when he observed them at last how they acted , the very administriation of the sacred mysteries , he was much troubled ; and sending for some of the chief of his clergy , caused the boys to be taken and brought before him . he asked them particularly what kind of sport they had been at , and what the words , and what the actions were that they had used in it . after their fear had hindred them a while from answering , and now they were afraid of being silent , they confess'd that a lad of their play-fellows , one athanasius , had baptized some of them that were not yet initiated to those sacred mysteries : whereupon alexander inquired the more accurately what the bishop of the game had said , and what he did to the boys he had baptized ; what they also had answered or learned from him . at last , when alexander perceived by them , that this pawn bishop had made all his removes right , and that the whole ecclesiastical order & rites had been duly observed in their interlude , he by the advice of his priests about him , approved of that mock-baptism , and determined that the boys , being once in the simpliciey of their minds dipped in the divine grace , ought not to be re-baptized , but he perfected it with the remaining mysteries , which it is only lawful for priests to administer . and then he delivered athanasius and the rest of the boys that had acted the parts of presbyters and deacons , to their parents ; calling god to witness , that they should be educated in the ministry of the church , that they might pass their lives in that calling which they had chosen by imitation . but as for athanasius , in a short while after , alexander took him to live with him , and be his secretary , having caused him to be carefully educated in the schools of the best grammarians and rhetoricians ; and he grew , in the opinion of all that spoke with him , a discreet and eloquent person , and will give occasion to be more than once mentioned again in this discourse ; i have translated this , in a manner , word for word from the author . this good-natured old bishop alexander , that was so far from anathemising , that he did not so much as whip the boys for the profanation of the sacrament against the discipline of the church , but without more doing , left them , for ought i see , at liberty , to regenerate as many more lads upon the next holy-day , as they thought convenient : he socr. l. . c. . being a man that lived an easie and gentle life , had one day called his priests , and the rest of his clergy together , and fell on philosophizing divinely among them , but something more subtily and curiously ( though i dare say he meant no harm ) than was usual , concerning the holy trinity . among the rest , one arrius , a priest too of alexandria , was there present , a man who is described to have been a good disputant ; and others add , ( the capital accusations of those times ) that he had a mind to have been a bishop , and bore a great pique at alexander , for having been preferr'd before him to the see of alexandria ; but more are silent of any such matter ; and sozom. l. . c. . saith , he was in great esteem with his bishop . but arrius , socr. l. . c. . hearing his discourse about the holy trinity , and the vnity in the trinity , conceiv'd that , as the bishop stated it , he had reason to suspect he was introducing afresh into the church , the heresie of sabellius the african , who fatebatur unum esse deum , & ita in unam essentiam trinitatem adducebat , ut assereret nullam esse vere subjectam proprietatem personis , sed nomina mutari pro eo atque usus poscant , ut nuncde illo ut patre , nunc ut filio , nunc ut spiritu sancto disseratur : and thereupon , it seems , arrius argued warmly for that opinion which was directly contrary to the african , driving the bishop from one to a second , from a second to a third seeming absurdity , which i studiously avoid the relation of ; that in all these things i may not give occasion for mens understandings to work by their memories , and propagate the same errors by the same means they were first occasion'd . but hereby arrius was himself blamed as the maintainer of those absurdities , which he affixed to the bishops opinion , as is usual in the heat and wrangle of disputation . whereas truth , for the most part , lies in the middle , but men ordinarly seek for it in the extremities . nor can i wonder that those ages were so fertile in what they called heresies , when being given to meddling with the mysteries of religion , further than humane apprehension , or divine revelation did or could lead them , some of the bishops were so ignorant and gross , but others so speculative , acute , and resining in their conceptions , that there being moreover a good fat bishoprick to boot in the case , it is rather admirable to me how all the clergy from one end to another , could escape from being , or being accounted hereticks . alexander hereupon , soz. l. . c. . instead of stilling by more prudent methods this new controversie , took doubtless with a very good intention , a course that hath seldom been successful : makes himself judg of that wherein he had first been the party , and calling to him some oothers of his clergy , would needs sit in publick , to have a solemn set disputation about the whole matter . and while arrius was at it tooth and nail against his opposers , and the arguments flew so thick , that they darkned the air , and no man could yet judg which side should have the victory ; the good bishop for his part sat hay now hay , neither could tell in his conscience of a long time , which had the better of it ; but sometimes he lean'd on one side , and then on the other , and now encouraged and commended those of one party , and presently the contrary ; but at last , by his own weight , he cast the scales against arrius . and from thenceforward , he excommunicated arrius for obstinacy ; who writing in behalf of himself and his followers to the bishop , each one stating his own , and his adversaries case , with the usual candor of such men in such matters ; the bishops too all over began to divide upon it , and after them their people . insomuch , that constantine , out of a true paternal sense and care , found necessary to send a very prudent and eminent person to alexandria , to try if he could accommodate the matter , giving him a letter to alexander and arrius : how discreet , how christian-like , i never read any thing of that nature equal to it , it is too long for me here to insert ; but i gladly recommend my reader to it , in the eus. de vitô const. c. . where he begins , i understand the foundation of the controversy to have been this , that thou alexander didst inquire of the priests concerning a passage in the scripture ; nay , didst ask them concerning a frivolous quillet of a question , what was each of their opinions : and thou arrius didst inconsiderately babble what thou neither at the beginning couldst conceive ; and if thou hadst conceived so , oughtest not to have vented , &c. but the clergy having got this once in the wind , there was no beating them off the scent . which induced constantine to think the convening of this council the only remedy to these disorders . and a woful ado he had with them , when they were met , to manage and keep them in any tolerable decorum . it seemed like an ecclesiastical cock-pit , and a man might have laid wagers either way , the two parties contending in good earnest , either for the truth or the victory ; but the more unconcern'd , like cunning betters , sate judiciously hedging , and so ordered their matter , that which side soever prevail'd , they would be sure to be the winners . they were indeed a most venerable assembly , composed of some holy , some grave , some wise , and some of them learned persons : and constantine had so charitably burnt the accusations they intended against one another , which might otherwise have depopulated and dispirited the council , that all of them may be presumed in one or other respect , to have made a great character . but i observe soz. l. . c. . that these great bishops , although they only had the decisive voices , yet thought fit to bring along with them , certain men that were cunning at an argument , to be auxiliary to them when it came to hard and tough disputation ; besides , that they had their priests and deacons ready at a dead lift , alway to assist them : so that their understandings seem'd to be sequester'd , and for their daily faith , they depended upon what their chaplains would allow them . and in that quality athanasius there waited upon alexander , being his deacon , ( for as yet it seems arch-bishops nor arch-deacons were invented ) . and it is not improbable that athanasius having so early personated the bishop , and seeing the declining age of alexander , would be careful that arrius should not step betwixt him and home upon vacancy , but did his best against him to bar up his way , as it shortly after happened ; athanasius succeeding after the council in the see of alexandria . in the mean time you may imagine hypostasis , persona , substantia , subsistentia , essentia , coessentialis , consubstantialis , ante soecula coaeternus , &c. were by so many disputants pick'd to the very bones , and those too broken afterwards , to come to the marrow of divinity . and never had constantine in his life so hard a task , as to bring them to any rational results ; meekly and patiently ( euseb. l. . c. . de vita const. ) listning to every one , taking every man's opinion , and without the acrimony with which it was delivered , helping each party where they disagreed , reconciling them by degrees when they were in the fiercest contention , conferring with them apart courteously and mildly , telling them what was his own opinion of the matter : which tho some exceptious persons may alledg to have been against the nature of a free council , yet truly , unless he had taken that course , i cannot imagine how possibly he could ever have brought them to any conclusion . and thus this first , great , general council of nice , with which the world had gone big so long , and which look'd so big upon all christendom , at last was brought in bed , and after a very hard labour , delivered of homoousios . they all subscribed to the new creed , except some seventeen , who it seems had rather to be hereticks than bishops . for now the anathema's were published , and whoever held the contrary , was to be punish'd by deprivation and banishment , all arrian books to be burned ; and whoever should be discovered to conceal any of arrius his writings , to die for it . but it fared very well with those who were not such fools as to own his opinion . all they were entertain'd by the emperor at a magnificent feast , received from his hand rich presents , and were honourably dismist , with letters recommending their great abilities and performance to the provinces , and enjoining the nicene creed to be henceforth observed . with that stroke of the pen , ( socr. l. . c. . ) for what three hundred bishops have agreed on , ( a thing indeed extraordinary ) ought not to be otherwise conceiv'd of , than as the decree of god almighty , especially seeing the holy ghost did sit upon the minds of such and so excellent men , and open'd his divine will to them . so that they went , i trow , with ample satisfaction ; and , as they could not but take the emperor for a very civil , generous , and obliging gentleman , so they thought the better of themselves from that day forward . and how budg must they look when they return back to their diocesses , having every one of 'em bin a principal limn of the oecumenical , apostolical , catholick , orthodox council ! when the catacheristical title of the church and the clergy were so appropriate to them by custom , that the christian people had relinquished or forgotten their claim ; when every hare that crossed their way homeward , was a schismatick or an heretick ; and if their horse stumbled with one of them , he incurr'd an anathema . well it was that their journeys lay so many several ways , for they were grown so cumbersom and great , that the emperor's high-way was too narrow for any two of them , and there could have been no passage without the removal of a bishop . but soon after the council was over , eusebius the bishop of nicomedia , and theognis the bishop of nice , who were already removed , both by banishment , and two others put in their places , were quickly restor'd upon their petition ; wherein they suggested the cause of their not signing to have been only , because they thought they could not with a safe conscience subscribe the anathema against arrius , appearing to them both by his writings , his discourses , and sermons , that they had been auditors of , not to be guilty of those errors . as for arrius himself , the emperor quickly wrote to him . it is now a considerable time since i wrote to your gravity to come to my tents , that you might enjoy my countenance ; so that i can scarce wonder sufficiently why you have so long delayed it : therefore now take one of the publick coaches , and make all speed to my tents ; that , having had experience of my kindness and affection to you , you may return into your own country . god preserve you , most dear sir. arrius hereupon ( with his comerade euxoius ) comes to constantine's army , and offers him a petition , with a confession of faith , that would have pass'd very well before the nicene council , and now satisfied the emperor , socr. l. . c. , & . insomuch that he writ to athanasius , now bishop of alexandria , to receive him into the church : but athanasius was of better mettle than so , and absolutely refused it . upon this constantine writ him another threatning letter : when you have understood hereby my pleasure , see that you afford free entrance into the church , to all that desire it : for if i shall understand that any who desires to be admitted into the church , should be either hindred or forbidden by you , i will send some one of my servants to remove you from your degree , and place another in your stead . yet athanasius stood it out still , tho other churches received him into communion : and the heretick novatus could not have bin more unrelenting to lapsed christians , than he was to arrius . but this , joined with other crimes , which were laid to athanasius his charge , at the council of tyre , ( though i suppose indeed they were forged ) made athanasius glad to fly for it , and remain the first time in exile . upon this whole matter , it is my impartial opinion that arrius , or whosoever else were guilty of teaching and publishing those errors whereof he was accused , deserved the utmost severity which consists with the christian religion . and so willing i have been to think well of athanasius , and ill of the other , that i have on purpose avoided the reading , as i do the naming of a book that i have heard , tells the story quite otherwise , and have only made use of the current historians of those times , who all of them tell it against the arrians . only i will confess , that as in reading a particular history at adventure , a man finds himself inclinable to favour the weaker party , especially if the conqueror appear insolent ; so have i been affected in reading these authors , which does but resemble the reasonable pity that men ordinarily have too , for those , who , though for an erroneous conscience , suffer under a christian magistrate . and as soon as i come to constantius , i shall for that reason change my compassion , and be doubly engaged on the orthodox party . but as to the whole matter of the council of nice , i must crave liberty to say , that from one end to the other , though the best of the kind , it seems to me to have been a pitiful humane business , attended with all the ill circumstances of other wordly affairs , conducted by a spirit of ambition and contention , the first , and so the greatest oecumenical blow that by christians was given to christianity . and it is not from any sharpness of humor that i discourse thus freely of things and persons , much less of orders of men otherwise venerable , but that where ought is extolled beyond reason , and to the prejudice of religion , it is necessary to depreciate it by true proportion . it is not their censure of arrianism , or the declaring of their opinion in a controverted point to the best of their understanding , ( wherein to the smalness of mine , they appear to have light upon the truth , had they likewise upon the measure ) that could have moved me to tell so long story , or bring my self within the danger and aim of any captious reader , speaking thus with great liberty of mind , but little concern for any prejudice i may receive , of things that are by some men idolized . but it is their imposition of a new article or creed upon the christian world , not being contained in express words of scripture , to be believed with divine faith , under spiritual and civil penalties , contrary to the priviledges of religion , and their making a precedent follow'd and improv'd by all succeeding ages for most cruel persecutions , that only could animate me . in digging thus for a new deduction , they undermined the fabrick of christianity , to frame a particular doctrine , they departed from the general rule of their religion ; and for their curiosity about an article concerning christ , they violated our saviour's first institution of a church , not subject to any addition in matters of faith , nor liable to compulsion , either in belief or in practice . far be it from me in the event , as it is from my intention , to derogate from the just authority of any of those creeds or confessions of faith that are receiv'd by our church upon clear agreement with the scripture : nor shall i therefore , unless some mens impertinence and indiscretion hereafter oblige me , pretend to any further knowledg of what in those particulars appear in the ancient histories . but certainly if any creed had been necessary , or at the least necessary to have been imposed , our saviour himself would not have left his church distitute in a thing of that moment . or however , after the holy ghost , upon his departure , was descended upon the apostles , and they the elders and brethren ( for so it was then ) were assembled in a legitimate council at ierusalem , it would have seemed good to the holy ghost and them to have sav'd the council of nice that labour , or at least the apostle paul , cor. . , and . who was caught up into paradise , and heard unspeakable words , which it is not lawful for any man to utter , having thereby a much better opportunity than athanasius , to know the doctrine of the trinity , would not have been wanting , through the abundance of that revelation , to form a creed for the church , sufficient to have put that business beyond controversie . especially seeing heresies were sprung up so early , and he foresaw others , and therefore does prescribe the mothod how they are to be dealt with , but no creed that i read of . shall any sort of men presume to interpret those words , which to him were unspeakable , by a gibbrish of their imposing , and force every man to cant after them , what it is not lawful for any man to utter ? christ and his apostles speak articulately enough in the scriptures , without any creed , as much as we are or ought to be capable of . and the ministry of the gospel is useful and most necessary , if it were but to press us to the reading of them , to illustrate one place by the authority of another , to inculcate those duties which are therein required , quickning us both to faith and practice , and showing within what bounds they are both circumscribed by our saviour's doctrine . and it becomes every man to be able to give a reason and account of his faith , and to be ready to do it , without officiously gratifying those who demand it only to take advantage : and the more christians can agree in one confession of faith , the better . but that we should believe ever the more for a creed , it cannot be expected . in those days , when creeds were most plenty and in fashion , and every one had them at their fingers end , 't was the bible that brought in the reformation . 't is true , a man would not stick to take two or three creeds for a need , rather than want a living ; and if a man have not a good swallow , 't is but wrapping them up in a liturgy , like a wafer , and the whole dose will go down currently ; especially if he wink at the same time , and give his assent and consent without ever looking on them . but without jesting , for the matter is too serious : every man is bound to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling , and therefore to use all helps possible for his best satisfaction ; hearing , conferring , reading , praying for the assistance of god's sprit : but when he hath done this , he is his own expositor , his own both minister and people , bishop and diocess , his own council ; and his conscience excusing or condemning him , accordingly he escapes or incurs his own internal anathema . so that when it comes once to a creed , made and imposed by other men as a matter of divine faith , the case grows very delicate ; while he cannot apprehend , tho the imposer may , that all therein is clearly contained in scripture , and may fear , being caught in the expressions , to oblige himself to a latitude or restriction , further than comports with his own sense and judgment . a christian of honour , when it comes to this once , will weigh every word , every syllable ; nay fruther , if he consider that the great business of this council of nice was but one single letter of the alphabet , about the inserting or omitting of an iota . there must be either that exactness in the form of such a creed , as i dare say , no meu in the world ever were or ever will be able to modulate : or else this scrupulous privat judgment must be admitted , or otherwise all creeds become meer instruments of equivocation or persecution . and i must confess , when i have sometimes considered with my self the dulness of the non-conformists , and the acuteness on the contrary of the episcoparians , and the conscientiousness of both ; i have thought that our church might safely wave the difference with them about ceremonies , and try it upon the creeds , which were both the more honourable way , and more suitable to the method of the ancient councils , and yet perhaps might do their business as effectually . for one that is a christian in good earnest , when a creed is imposed , will sooner eat fire , than tak it against his judgment . there have been martyrs for reason , and it was manly in them : but how much more would men be so for reason religionated and christianized ! but it is an inhumane and unchristian thing of those faith-stretchers , whosoever they be , that either put mens persons , or their consciences upon the torture , or rack them to the length of their notions : whereas the bereans are made gentlemen , and innobled by patent in the acts , because they would not credit paul himself , whose writings now make so great a part of the new testament , until they had searched the scripture daily , whether those things were so , and therefore many of them believed . and therefore , although where there are such creeds , christians may for peace and conscience-sake acquiesce while there appears nothing in them flatly contrary to the words of the scripture ; yet when they are obtruded upon a man in particular , he will look very well about him , and not take them upon any humane authority . the greatest pretence to authority , is in a council . but what then ? shall all christians therefore take their formularies of divine worship or belief upon trust , as writ in tables of stone , like the commandments , deliver'd from heaven , and to be obeyed in the instant , not considered ; because three hundred and eighteen bishops are met in abraham's great hall , of which most must be servants , and some children ; and they have resolv'd upon 't in such a manner ? no , a good christian will not , cannot atturn and indenture his conscience over , to be represented by others . it is not as in secular matters , where the states of a kingdom are deputed by their fellow subjects to transact for them , so in spiritual : or suppose it were , yet 't were necessary , as in the polish constitution , that nothing should be obligatory as long as there is one dissenter , where no temporal interests , but every mans eternity and salvation are concerned . the soul is too precious to be let out at interest upon any humane security , that does or may fail ; but it is only safe when under god's custody , in its own cabinet . but it was a general council . a special general indeed , if you consider the proportion of three hundred and eighteen to the body of the christian clergy , but much more to all christian man-kind . but it was a general free council of bishops . i do not think it possible for any council to be free , that is composed out of bishops , and where they only have the decisive voices . nor that a free council that takes away christian liberty . but that , as it was founded upon usurpation , so it terminated in imposition . but 't is meant , that it was free from all external impulsion . i confess that good meat and drink , and lodging , and mony in a man's purse , and coaches , and servants , and horses to attend them , did no violence to 'em , nor was there any false article in it . and discoursing now with one , and then another of 'em in particular , and the emperor telling them this is my opinion , i understand it thus ; and afterwards declaring his mind frequently to them in publick ; no force neither . ay , but there was a shrewd way of persuasion in it . and i would be glad to know when ever , and which free general council it was that could properly be called so ; but was indeed a meer imperial or ecclesiastical machine , no free agent , but wound up , set on going , and let down by the direction and hand of the workman . a general free council is but a word of art , and can never happen but under a fifth monarch , and that monarch too , to return from heaven . the animadverter will not allow the second general council of nice to have bin free , because it was overaw'd by an empress , and was guilty of a great fault ( which no council at liberty he saith could have committed ) the decree for worshipping of images . at this rate a christian may scuffle however for one point among them , and chuse which council he likes best . but in good earnest , i do not see but that constantine might as well at this first council of nice , have negotiated the image-worship , as to pay that superstitious adoration to the bishops , and that prostration to their creeds was an idolatry more pernicious in the consequence , to the christian faith , then that under which they so lately had suffer'd persecution . nor can a council be said to have been at liberty , which lay under so great and many obligations . but the holy ghost was present , where there were three hundred and eighteen bishops , and directed them , or three hundred . then , if i had been of their council , they should have sate at it all their lives , lest they should never see him again after they were once risen . but it concerned them to settle their quorum at last by his dictates ; otherwise no bishop could have been absent , or gone forth upon any accusation , but he let him out again : and it behov'd to be very punctual in the adjournments . 't is a ridiculous conception , and as gross as to make him of the same substance with the council . nor needs there any stronger argument of his absence , then their pretence to be actuated by him , and in doing such work . the holy spirit ! if so many of them , when they got together , acted like rational men , 't was enough in all reason , and as much as could be expected . but this was one affectation , among many others , which the bishops took up so early , of the stile , priviledges , powers , and some actions and gestures peculiar and inherent ot the apostles , which they misplaced to their own behoof and usage ; nay , and challenged other things as apostolical , that were directly contrary to the doctrine and practice of the apostles . for so , because the holy spirit did in an extraordinary manner preside among the holy apostles at that legitimate council of ierusalem , acts . they , although under an ordinary administration , would not go less whatever came on 't : nay , whereas the apostles , in the drawing up of their decree , dictated to them by the holy spirit , said therefore no more but thus : the apostles , elders , and brethren , send greeting unto the brethren of , &c. forasmuch as , &c. it seemed good to the holy ghost and us , to lay upon you no greater burthen than these necessary things ; that ye abstain from , &c. from which if ye keep your selves , you shall do well . fare ye well . this council denounces every invention of its own , ( far from the apostolical modesty , and the stile of the holy spirit ) under no less than an anathema . such was their arrogating to their inferior degrees , the stile of clergy , till custom hath so much prevailed , that we are at a loss how to speak properly , either of the name or nature of their function . whereas the clergy , in the true and apostolical sense , were only those whom they superciliously always call the laity : the word clerus being never but once used in the new testament , and in that signification , and in a very unlucky place too , pet. . . where he admonishes the priesthood , that they should not lord it , or domineer over the christian people , clerum domini , or the lord's inheritance . but having usurp'd the title , i confess they did right to assume the power . but to speak of the priesthood in that stile which they most affect , if we consider the nature too of their function , what were the clergy then , but laymen disguis'd , drest up perhaps in another habit ? did not st. paul himself , being a tent-maker , rather than be idle or burthensom to his people , work of his trade , even during his apostleship , to get his living ? but did not these , that they might neglect their holy vocation , seek to compass secular imploiments , and lay-offices ? were not very many of them , whether one respect their vices or ignorance , as well qualified as any other to be lay-men ? was it not usual , as oft as they merited it , to restore them , as in the case even of the three bishops to the lay-communion ? and whether , if they were so peculiar from others , did the imposition of the bishop's hands , or the lifting up the hands of the laity , confer more to that distinction ? and constantine , notwithstanding his complement at the burning of the bishops papers , thought he might make them , and unmake them , with the same power as he did his other lay-officers . but if the inferior degrees were the clergy , the bishops would be the church : altho that word in the scripture-sense , is proper only to a congregation of the faithful . and being by that title the only men in ecclesiastical councils , then when they were once assembled , they were the catholick church , and , having the holy spirit at their devotion , whatsoever creed they light upon , that was the catholick faith , without the believing of which , no man can be saved . by which means there rose thenceforward so constant persecutions till this day , that , had not the little invisible catholick church , and a people that always search'd and believ'd the scriptures , made a stand by their testimonies and sufferings , the creeds had destroy'd the faith , and the church had ruined the religion . for this general council of nice , and all others of the same constitution , did , and can serve to no other end or effect , than a particular order of men by their usurping a trust upon christianity , to make their own price and market of it , and deliver it up as oft as they see their own advantage . for scarce was constantine's head cold , but his son constantius , succeeding his brothers , being influenced by the bishops of the arrian party , turn'd the wrong side of christianity outward , inverted the poles of heaven , and faith ( if i may say so ) with its heels in the air , was forced to stand upon its head , and play gambols , for the divertisement and pleasure of the homoieusians . arrianism was the divinity then in mode , and he was an ignorant and ill courtier , or church-man , that could not dress , and would not make a new sute for his conscience in the fashion . and now the orthodox bishops ( it being given to those men to be obstinate for power , but flexible in faith ) began to wind about insensibly , as the heliotrope flower that keeps its ground , but wrests its neck in turning after the warm sun , from day-break to evening . they could look now upon the synod of nice with more indifference , and all that pudder that had been made there betwixt homoousius and homoiousius , &c. began to appear to them as a difference only arising from the inadequation of languages : till by degrees they were drawn over , and rather than lose their bishopricks , would join , and at last be the head-most in the persecution of their own former party . but the deacons , to be sure , that steer'd the elephants , were thorow-paced ; men to be reckon'd and relied upon in this or any other occasion , and would prick on , to render themselves capable and episcopable , upon the first vacancy . for now the arrians in grain , scorning to come behind the clownish homoousians , in an ecclesiastical civility , were resolved to give them their full of persecution . and it seem'd a piece of wit rather than malice , to pay them in their own coin , and to burlesque them in earnest , by the repetition and heightning of the same severities upon them , that they had practised upon others . had you the homoousians a creed at nice ? we will have another creed for you at ariminum , and at selucia . would you not be content with so many several projects of faith consonant to scripture , unless you might thrust the new word homoousios down our throats , and then tear it up again , to make us confess it ? tell us the word , ( 't was homoiousios ) we are now upon the guard , or else we shall run you thorow . would you anathemize , banish , imprison , execute us , and burn our books ? you shall taste of this christian fare , and as you relish it , you shall have more on 't provided . and thus it went , arrianism being triumphant , but the few sincere and stomachful bishops , adhering constantly , and with a true christian magnanimity , especially athanasius , thorow all sufferings , unto their former confessions , expiated so in some measure , what they had committed in the nicene council . sozomen , . . c. . first tells us a story of eudoxius , who succeeded macedonius , in the bishoprick of constantinople ; that in the cathedral of sancta sophia being mounted in his episcopal throne , the first time that they assembled for its dedication , in the very beginning of his sermon to the people ( those things were already come in fashion ) told them : patrem impium esse , filium autem pium ; at which then they began to bustle ; pray be quiet , saith he ; i say , patrem impium esse , quia colit neminem , filium vero pium quia colit patrem ; at which they then laughed as heartily , as before they were angry . but this i only note to this purpose , that there were some of the greatest bishops among the homoiousians , as well as the homoousians , that could not reproach one anothers simplicity , and that it was not impossible for the many to be wiser and more orthodox than the few , in divine matters . that which i cite him for as most material , is , the remark upon the imposition then of contrary creeds : which verily , saith he , was plainly the beginning of most great calamities , forasmuch as hereupon there followed a disturbance , not unlike those which we before recited over the whole empire ; and likewise a persecution equal almost to that of the heathen emperors , seized upon all of all churches . for although it seemed to some more gentle , for what concerns the torture of the body , yet to prudent persons it appeared more bitter and severe , by reason of the dishonour and ignominy . for both they who stirred up , and those that were afflicted with this persecution , were of the christian church ; and the grievance therefore was the greater and more ugly , in that the same things which are done among enemies , were executed between those of the same tribe and profession : but the holy law forbids us to carry our selves in that manner , even to those that are without , and aliens . and all this mischief sprung from making of creeds , with which the bishops , as it were at tilting , aim'd to hit one another in the eye , and throw the opposite party out of the saddle . but if it chanced that the weaker side were ready to yield , ( for what sort of men was there that could better manage , or had their consciences more at command at that time than the clergy ? ) then the arrians would use a yet longer , thicker , and sharper lance for the purpose , ( for there were never vacancies sufficient ) that they might be sure to run them down , over , and thorow , and do their business . the creed of ariminum was now too short for the design ; but , saith the historian , they affix'd further articles like labels to it , pretending to have made it better , and so sent it thorow the empire with constantius his proclamation , that whoever would not subscribe it , should be banished . nay , they would not admit their own beloved similis substantia ; but to do the work throughly , the arrians renounc'd their own creed for malice , and made it an article ; filium patri tam substantia , quam voluntate , dissimilem esse . but this is a small matter with any of them , provided thereby they may do service to the church , that is their party . so that one ( seriously speaking ) that were really orthodox , could not then defend the truth or himself , but by turning of arrian , if he would impugn the new ones ; such was the subtilty . what shall i say more ? as the arts of glass coaches and perriwigs illustrate this age , so by their trade of creed-making , then first invented , we may esteem the wisdom of constantine's , and constantius his empire . and in a short space , as is usual among tradesmen , where it appears gainful , they were so many that set up of the same profession , that they could scarce live by one another . socr. . . c. . therefore uses these words . but now that i have tandem aliquando , run through this labyrinth of so many creeds , i will gather up their number : and so reckons nine creeds more , besides that of nice , before the death of constantine , ( a blessed number . ) and i believe i could for a need , make them up a dozen , if men have a mind to buy them so . and hence it was that hilary , then bishop of poictiers , represents that state of the church pleasantly , yet sadly , since the nicene synod , saith he , we do nothing but write creeds . that while we fight about words , whilst we raise questions about novelties , while we quarrel about things doubtful , and about authors , while we contend in parties , while there is difficulty in consent , while we anathematize one another , there is none now almost that is christ's . what a change there is in the last years creed ? the first decree commands that homoousios should not be mentioned . the next does again decree and publish homoousios . the third does by indulgence excuse the word ousia , as used by the fathers in their simplicity . the fourth does not excuse , but condemn it . it is come to that at last , that nothing among us , or those before us , can remain sacred or inviolable . we decree every year of the lord , a new creed concerning god ; nay , every change of the moon our faith is alter'd . we repent of our decrees , we defend those that repent of them ; we anathematize those that we defended ; and while we either condemn other mens opinions in our own , or our own opinions in those of other men , and bite at one another , we are now all of us torn in pieces . this bishop sure was the author of the naked truth , and 't was he that implicitely condemn'd the whole catholick church , both east and west , for being too presumptuous in her definitions . it is not strange to me , that iulian , being but a reader in the christian church , should turn pagan : especially when i consider that he suceeded emperor after constantius . for it seems rather unavoidable that a man of great wit , as he was , and not having the grace of god to direct it , and show him the beauty of religion , through the deformity of its governours and teachers ; but that he must conceive a loathing and aversion for it , nor could he think that he did them any injustice , when he observed that , beside all their unchristian immorality too , they practised thus against the institutive law of their galilean , the persecution among themselves for religion . and well might he add to his other severities , that sharpness of his wit , both exposing and animadverting upon them , at another rate than any of the modern practitioners with all their study and inclination , can ever arrive at . for nothing is more punishable , contemptible , and truly ridiculous , than a christian that walks contrary to his profession : and by how much any man stands with more advantage in the church for eminency , but disobeys the laws of christ by that priviledge , he is thereby , and deserves to be the more exposed . but iulian , the last heathen emperor , by whose cruelty it seemed that god would sensibly admonish once again the christian clergy , and show them by their own smart , and an heathen-hand , the nature and odiousness of persecution , soon died , as is usual for men of that imployment , not without a remarkable stroke of gods judgement . yet they , as they were only sorry that they had lost so much time , upon his death strove as eagerly to redeem it , and forthwith fell in very naturally into their former animosities . for iovianus being chosen emperor in persia , and returning homeward , socr. . . c. . the bishops of each party , in hopes that theirs should be the imperial creed , strait took horse , and rode away with switch and spur , as if it had been for the plate , to meet him ; and he that had best heels , made himself cock-sure of winning the religion . the macedonians , who dividing from the arrians , had set up for a new heresie concerning the holy ghost , ( and they were a squadron of bishops ) petition'd him that those who held , filium patri dissimilem , might be turn'd out , and themselves put in their places : which was very honestly done , and above-board . the acacians , that were the refined arrians , but , as the author saith , had a notable faculty of addressing themselves to the inclination of whatsoever emperor , and having good inteligence that he balanced rather to the consubstantials , presented him with a very fair insinuating subscription , of a considerable number of bishops to the council of nice . but in the next emperors time they will be found to yield little reverence to their own subscription . for in matter of a creed , a note of their hand , without expressing the penalty , could not it seems bind one of their order . but all that iovianus said to the macedonians , was ; i hate contention , but i lovingly embrace and reverence those who are inclined to peace and concord . to the acacians , who had wisely given these the precedence of application , to try the truth of their intelligence , he said no more ( having resolv'd by sweetness and perswasions to quiet all their controversies ) but , that he would not molest any man whatsoever creed he follow'd , but those above others he would cherish and honour , who should show themselves most forward in bringing the church to a good agreement . he likewise call'd back all those bishops who had been banish'd by constantius , and iulian , restoring them to their sees . and he writ a letter in particular to athanasius , who upon iulian's death had enter'd again upon that of alexandria , to bid him be of good courage . and these things coming to the ears of all others , did wonderfully asswage the fierceness of those who were inflamed with faction and contention : so that , the court having declared it self of this mind , the church was in a short time in all outward appearance peaceably disposed , the emperor by this means having wholly repressed all their violence . verily , concludes the historian , the roman empire had been prosperous and happy , and both the state and the church ( he puts them too in that order ) under so good a prince , must have exceedingly flourished , had not an immature death taken him away from managing the government . for after seven months , being seized with a mortal obstruction , he departed this life . did not this historian , trow you , deserve to be handled , and is it not , now the mischief is done , to undo the charm , oecome a duty , to expose both him and iovianus ? by their ill chosen principles , what would have become of the prime and most necessary article of faith ? might not the old dormant heresies , all of them safely have revived ? but that mortal obstruction of the bishops , was not by his death ( nor is it by their own to be ) removed . they were glad he was so soon got out of their way , and god would yet further manifest : their intractable spirit , which not the persecution of the heathen emperor iulian , nor the gentleness of iovianus the christian , could allay or mitigate by their afflictions or prosperity . the divine nemesis executed justice upon them , by one anothers hand : and so hainous a crime as for a christian , a bishop to persecute , stood yet in need , as the only equal and exemplary punishment , of being reveng'd with a persecution by christians , by bishops . and whosoever shall seriously consider all along the successions of the emperors , can never have taken that satisfaction in the most judicious representations of the scene , which he may in this worthy speculation of the great order and admirable conduct of wise providence ; through the whole contexture of these exterior seeming accidents , relating to the ecclesiasticals of christianity . for to iovianus succeeded valentinian , who in a short time took his brother valens to be his companion in the empire . these two brothers did as the historian observes , socr. l. . c. . ( alike , and equally take care at the beginning , for the advantage and government of the state ) but very much disagreed , though both christians , in matters of religion : valetinianus the elder being an orthodox , but valens an arrian , and they used a different method toward the christians . for valentinian ( who chose the western part of the empire , and left the east to his brother ) as he embraced those of his own creed , so yet he did not in the least molest the arrians : but valens not only labor'd to increase the number of the arrians , but afflicted those of the contrary opinion with grievous punishments . and both of 'm , especially valens , had bishops for their purpose . the particulars of that heavy persecution under valens , any one may further satisfie himself of in the writers of those times : and yet it is observable , that within a little space while he pursued the orthodox bishops , he gave liberty to the novatians , ( who were of the same creed , but separated from them , as i have said , upon discipline , &c. ) and caused their churches , which for a while were shut up , to be opened again at constantinople . to be short , valens ( who out-lived his brother , that died of a natural death ) himself in a battel against the goths , could not escape neither the fate of a christian persecutor . for the goths having made application to him , he , saith socrates , not well fore-seeing the consequence , admitted them to inhabit in certain places of thracia , pleasing himself that he should by that means always have an army ready at hand against whatsoever enemies ; and that those foreign guards would strike them with a greater terror , more by far than the militia of his subjects . and so slighting the ancient veterane militia , which used to consist of bodies of men , raised proportionably in every province , and were stout fellows that would fight manfully ; instead of them he levied money , rating the country at so much for every souldier . but these new inmates of the emperors soon grew troublesom , as is customary , and not only infested the natives in thracia , but plunder'd even the suburbs of constantinople , there being no armed force to repress them : hereupon the whole people of the city cried out at a publick spectacle , where valens was present neglecting this matter , give us arms and we will manage this war our selves . this extreamly provok'd him , so that he forthwith made an expedition against the goths : but threatned the citizens if he return'd in safety , to be reveng'd on them both for those contumelies , and for what under the tyrant procopius , they had committed against the empire ; and that he would raze to the ground , and plow up the city . yet before his departure out of the fear of the foraign enemy , he totally ceas'd from persecuting the orthodox in constantinople . but he was kill'd in the fight , or flying into a village that the goths had set on fire , he was burnt to ashes , to the great grief of his bishops ; who , had he been victorious , might have revived the persecution . such was the end of his impetuous reign and rash counsels , both as to his government of state , in matters of peace and war , and his manage of the church by persecution . his death brings me to the succession of theodosius the great , than whom no christian emperor did more make it his business to nurse up the church , and to lull the bishops , to keep the house in quiet . but neither was it in his power to still their bawling , and scratching one another , as far as their nails ( which were yet more tender , but afterwards grew like tallons ) would give them leave . i shall not further vex the history , or the reader , in recounting the particulars ; taking no delight neither my self in so uncomfortable relations , or to reflect beyond what is necessary upon the wolfishness of those which then seemed , and ought to have been the christian pastors , but went on scattering their flocks , if not devouring ; and the shepherds smiting one another . in his reign , the second general council was called , that of constantinople , and the creed was there made , which took its name from the place : the rest of their business , any one that is further curious , may observe in the writers . but i shall close this with a short touch concerning gregory nazianzen , then living , than whom also the christian church had not in those times ( and i question whether in any succeeding ) a bishop that was more a christian , more a getleman , better appointed in all sorts of learning requisite , seasoned under iulian's persecution , and exemplary to the highest pitch of true religion , and practical piety . the eminence of these vertues , and in special of his humility ( the lowliest , but the highest of all christian qualifications ) raised him under theodosius , from the parish-like bishoprick of nazianzum , to that of constantinople , where he fill'd his place in that council . but having taken notice in what manner things were carried in that , as they had been in former councils , and that some of the bishops muttered at his promotion ; he of his own mind resigned that great bishoprick , whis was never of his desire or seeking ; and , though so highly seated in the emperors reverence and favor , so acceptable to the people , and generally to the clergy , whose unequal abilities could not pretend or justifie an envy against him ; retired back for more content , to a solitary life , to his little nazianzum . and from thence he writes that letter to his friend procopius , wherein . p. . upon his most recollected and serious reflexion on what had faln within his observation , he useth these remarkable words : i have resolved with my self ( if i may tell you the naked truth , ) never more to come into any assembly of bishops : for i never saw a good and happy end of any council , but which rather increased than remedied the mischiefs . for their obstinate contentions and ambition are unexpressible . it would require too great a volume to deduce , from the death of theodosius , the particulars that happened in the succeeding reigns about this matter . but the reader may reckon that it was as stated a quarrel betwixt the homoousians , and the homoiousians , as that between the houses of york and lancaster : and there arose now an emperor of one line , and then again of the other . but among all the bishops , there was not one morton , whose industrious brain could or would ( for some men always reap by division ) make up the fatal breach betwixt the two creeds . by this means every creed was grown up to a test , and under that pretence , the dextrous bishops step by step hooked within their verge , all the business and power that could be catched in those turbulences , where they mudled the water , and fished after . by this means they stalked on first to a spiritual kind of dominion , and from that incroached upon and into the civil jurisdiction . a bishop now grew terrible , and ( whereas a simple layman might have frighted the devil with the first words of the apostles creed , and i defie thee satan ) one creed could not protect him from a bishop , and it required a much longer , and a double and treble confession , unless himself would be delivered over to satan by an anathema . but this was only an ecclesiastical sentence at first , with which they marked out such as sinned against them , and then whoop'd and hallow'd on the civil magistrate , to hunt them down for their spiritual pleasure . they crept at first by court insinuations & flattery into the princes favor , till those generous creatures suffered themselves to be backed & ridden by them , who would take as much of a free horse as possible : but in persecution the clergy as yet , wisely interposed the magistrate betwixt themselves & the people , not caring so their end were attained , how odious they rendred him : and you may observe that for the most part hitherto , they stood crouching & shot either over the emperors back , or under his belly . but in process of time they became bolder and open-fac'd , and persecuted before the sun at mid-day . bishops grew worse , but bishopricks every day better and better . there was now no eusebius left to refuse the bishopcick of antiochia , whom therefore constantine told , that he deserv'd the bishoprick of the whole world for that modesty . they were not such fools as ammonius parates , i warrant you , in the time of theodosius . he , socr. l. . c. . being seised upon by some that would needs make him a bishop , when he could not perswade them to the contrary , cut off one of his ears , telling them that now should he himself desire to be a bishop , he was by the law of priesthood incapable : but when they observed that those things only obliged the jewish priesthood , and that the church of christ did not consider whether a priest were sound or perfect in limb of body , but only that he were intire in his manners ; they return'd to seize on him again : but when he saw them coming , he swore with a solemn oath , that if , to consecrate him a bishop , they laid violent hands upon him , he would cut out his tongue also ; whereupon they fearing he would do it , desisted . what should have been the matter , that a man so learned and holy , should have such an aversion to be promoted in his own order ; that , rather than yield to be a compelled or compelling bishop , he would inflict upon himself as severe a martyrdom , as any persecutor could have done for him ? sure he saw something more in the very constitution , than some do at present . but this indeed was an example too rigid , and neither fit to have been done , nor to be imitated , as there was no danger . for far from this they followed the precedent rather of damasus and vrsinus , which last , socr. l. c. . in valentinian ' s time , perswaded certain obscure and abject bishops ( for there were it seems of all sorts and sizes ) to create him bishop in a corner , and then ( so early ) he and damasus , who was much the better man , waged war for the bishoprick of rome , to the great scandal of the pagan writers , who made remarks for this and other things upon their christianity , and to the bloodshed and death of a multitude of the christian people . but this last i mention'd , only as a weak and imperfect essay in that time , of what it came to in the several ages after , which i am now speaking of , when the bishops were given , gave themselves over to all manner of vice , luxury , pride , ignorance , superstition , covetousness , and monopolizing of all secular imployments and authority . nothing could escape them : they meddled , troubled themselves and others , with many things , every thing , forgetting that one , only needful . insomuch that i could not avoid wondring often , that among so many churches that with paganick rites they dedicated to saint mary , i have met with none to saint martha . but above all , imposition and cruelty became inherent to them , and the power of persecution was grown so good and desirable a thing , that they thought the magistrate scarce worthy to be trusted with it longer , and a meer novice at it , and either wrested it out of his hands , or gently eased him of that and his other burdens of government . the sufferings of the laity were become the royalties of the clergy ; and , being very careful christians , the bishops that not a word of our saviour might fall to the ground , because he had foretold how men should be persecuted for his names sake , they undertook to see it done effectually in their own provinces , and out of pure zeal of doing him the more service of this kind , inlarged studiously their diocesses beyond all proportion . like nostrodamus his son , that to fulfil his father's prediction of a city in france , that should be burned ; with his own hands set it on fire . all the calamities of the christian world in those ages , may be derived from them , while they warm'd themselves at the flame ; and like lords of misrule , kept a perpetual christmas . what in the bishops name is the matter ? how it came about that christianity , which approved it self under all persecutions to the heathen emperors , and merited their favour so far , till at last it regularly succeeded to the monarchy , should under those of their own profession be more distressed ? were there some christians then too , that feared still lest men should be christians , and for whom it was necessary , not for the gospel reason that there should be heresies . let us collect a little now also in the conclusion what at first was not particulariz'd , how the reason of state and measure of government stood under the roman emperours , in aspect to them . i omit tiberius , mention'd in the beginning of this essay . trajane , after having persecuted them , and having used pliny the second in his province to that purpose , upon his relation that they lived in conformity to all law , but that which forbad their worship , and in all other things were blameless , and good men , straitly by his edict commanded that none of them should be farther enquired after . hadrian , in his edict to minutius fundanus , proconsul of asia , commands him that , if any accuse the christians , and can prove it , that they commit any thing against the state , that then he punish them according to the crime : but if any man accuse them , meerly for calumny and vexation , as christians , then i'faith let him suffer for 't , and take you care that he feel the smart of it . antoninus pius writ his edict very remarkable , if there were place to recite it , to the states of asia assembled at ephesus , wherein he takes notice of his fathers command , that unless the christians were found to act any thing against the roman empire , they should not be molested , and then commands , that if any man thereafter shall continue to trouble them , tanquam tales , as christians , for their worship , in that case , he that is the informer , should be exposed to punishment , but the accused should be free and discharged . i could not but observe that among other things in this edict , where he is speaking . it is desirable to them that they may appear , being accused , more willing to die for their god than to live : he adds , it would not be amiss to admonish you concerning the earth-quakes which have , and do now happen , that when you are afflicted at them , you would compare our affairs with theirs . they are thereby so much the more incouraged to a confidence and reliance upon god , but you all the while go on in your ignorance , and neglect both other gods , and the religion towards the immortal , and banish and persecute them unto death . which words of that emperors , fall in so naturally with what , it seems , was a common observation about earth-quakes , that i cannot but to that purpose take further notice , how also gregory nazianzen , in or. . contra gentiles , tells , besides the breakings in of the sea in several places , and many fires that happened , of the earth-quakes in particular , which he reckons as symptoms of iulian's persecution . and to this i may add , socr. l. . c. , who in the reign of valens , that notorious christian persecutor , saith , at the same time there was an earth-quake in bithynia , which turned the city of nice ( that same in which the general council was held under constantine ) and a little after there was another . but although these so happened , the minds of valens , and of eudoxius , the bishop of the arrians , were not all stirred up unto piety , and a right opinion of religion . for nevertheless they ceased not , made no end of persecuting those who in their creed dissented from them . those earth-quakes seemed to be certain indications of tumults in the church . all which put together , could not but make me reflect upon the late earth-quakes , great by how much more unusual here in england , thorow so many counties two years since , at the same time when the clergy , some of them , were so busie in their cabals , to promote this ( i would give it a modester name than ) persecution , which is now on foot against the dissenters ; at so unseasonable a time , and upon no occasion administred by them , that those who comprehend the reasons , yet cannot but wonder at the wisdom of it . yet i am not neither one of the most credulous nickers or appliers of natural events to human transanctions : but neither am i so secure as the learned dr. spencer , nor can walk along the world without having some eye to the conjunctures of god's admirable providence . neither was marcus aurelius ( that i may return to my matter ) negligent as to the particular . but he , observing , as antonnius had the earth-quakes , that in an expedition against the germans and sarmatians , his army being in despair almost for want of water , the melitine ( afterwards from the event called the thundring ) legion , which consisted of christians , kneel'd down in the very heat of their thirst and fight , praying for rain ; which posture the enemies wondring at , immediately there brake out such a thundring and lightning , as together with the christian valour , routed the adverse army , but so much rain fell therewith , as refreshed aurelius his forces , that were at the last gasp for thirst : he thence forward commanded by his letters , that upon pain of death none should inform against the christians , as tertullian in his apology for the christians witnesses . but who would have believed that even commodus , so great a tyrant otherwise , should have been so favourable as to make a law , that the informers against christians should be punished with death ? yet he did , and the informer against apollonius was by it executed . much less could a man have thought that , that prodigy of cruelty maximine , and who exercised it so severely upon the christians , should , as he did , being struck with god's hand , publish when it was too late edict after edict , in great favour of the christians . but above all , nothing could have been less expected than that , after those heathen emperors , the first christian constantine should have been seduced by the bishops , to be after them , the first occasion of persecution , so contrary to his own excellent inclination : 't was then that he spake his own mind , when he said , eus. de vitâ const. . you ought to retain within the bounds of your private thoughts of those things , which you cunningly and subtly seek out concerning most frivolous questions . and then much plainer , c. . where he saith so wisely . you are not ignorant that the philosophers all of them do agree in the profession of the same discipline , but do oftentimes differ in some part of the opinions that they dogmatize in : but yet , although they do dissent about the discipline that each several sect observeth , they nevertheless reconcile themselves again for the sake of that common profession to which they have concurred . but again compulsion in religious . matters so much every where , that it is needless to insert one passage . and he being of this disposition , and universally famous for his care and countenance of the christian religion . eusebius saith these words , while the people of god did glory and heighten it self in the doing of good things , and all fear from without was taken away , and the church was fortifi'd as i may say , on all sides by a peaceable and illustrious tranquility , then envy lying in wait against our prosperity , craftily crept in , and began first to dance in the midst of the company of bishops ; so goes on , telling the history of alexander and arrius . i have been before large enough in that relation , wherein appeared that , contrary to that great emperours pious intention , whereas envy began to dance among the bishops first , the good constantine brought them the fiddles . but it appear'd likewise how soon he was weary of the ball , and toward his latter end , as princes often do upon too late experience , would have repressed all , and returned to his natural temper . of the other christian emperours i likewise discoursed , omitting , that i might insert it in this place , how the great heathen philosopher themistius , in his consolar oration , celebrated iovianus for having given that toleration in christien religion , and thereby defeated the flattering bishops , which sort of men , saith he wittily , do not worship god , but the imperial purple . it was the same themistius , that only out of an upright natural apprehension of things , made that excellent oration afterward to valens , which is in print , exhorting him to cease persecution ; wherein he chances upon , and improves the same notion with constantines , and tells him , that he should not wonder at the dissents in cstristian religion , which were very small if compared with the multitude and crowd of opinions among the gentile philosophers ; for there were at least three hundred differences , and a very great dissention among them there was about their resolutions , unto which each several sect was as it were , necessarily bound up and obliged : and that god seemed to intend more to illustrate his own glory by that diverse and unequal variety of opinions , to the end every each one might therefore so much the more reverence his divine majesty , because it is not possible for any one accurately to know him . and this had a good effect upon valens , for the mitigating in some measure his severities against his fellow christians . so that after having cast about in this summery again , ( whereby it plainly appears , that according to natural right , and the apprehension of all sober heathen governours , christianity as a religion , was wholly exempt from the magistrates jurisdiction or laws , farther than any particular person among them immorally transgressed , as others , the common rules of human society ) i cannot but return to the question with which i begun . what was the matter ? how came it about that christianity , which approved it self under all persecutions to the heathen emperours , and merited their favour so far , till at last it regularly succeeded to the monarchy , should under those of their own profession , be more distressed ? but the answer is now much shorter and certainer , and i will adventure boldly to say , the true and single cause then was the bishops . and they were the cause against reason . for what power had the emperours by growing christians , more than those had before them ? none . what obligation were christians subject under to the magistrate more than before ? none . but the magistrates christian authority was what the apostle describ'd it while heathen ; not to be a terror to good works , but to evil . what new power had the bishops acquired , whereby they turned every pontificate into a caiaphat ? none neither , cor. . . had they been apostles . the lord had but given them authority for edification , not for destruction . they , of all other , ought to have preached to the magistrate the terrible denunciations in scripture against usurping upon , and persecuting of christians . they , of all others , ought to have laid before them the horrible examples of god's ordinary justice against those that exercised persecution . but , provided they could be the swearers of the prince , to do all due allegiance to the church , and to preserve the rights and liberties of the church , however they came by them , they would give them as much scope as he pleased , in matter of christianity , and would be the first to solicite him to break the laws of christ , and ply him with hot places of scripture , in order to all manner of oppression and persecution in civils and spirituals . so that the whole business how this unchristian tyranny came , and could entitle it self among christians , against the christian priviledges , was only the case in zech. . . . and one shall say unto him , what are these wounds in thy hands ? then he shall answer , those with which i was wounded in the house of my friends . because they were all christians , they thought forsooth they might make the bolder with them , make bolder with christ , and wound him again in the hands and feet of his members . because they were friends , they might use them more coarsly , and abuse them against all common civility , in their own house , which is a protection to strangers . and all this to the end that a bishop might sit with the prince in iunto , to consult wisely how to preserve him from those people that never meant him any harm , and to secure him from the sedition and rebellion of men that seek , nor think any thing more , but to follow their own religious christian worship . it was indeed as ridiculous a thing to the pagans to see that work , as it was afterwards in england to strangers , where papists and protestants went both to wrack at the same instant , in the same market ; and when erasmus said wittily , quid agitur in angliâ ? ( consulitur , he might have added , though not so elegantly , comburitur ) de religione . because they knew that christian worship was free by christs institution , they procured the magistrate to make laws in it concerning things necessary : as the heathen persecutor iulian introduced some bordering pagan ceremonies , and arguing with themselves in the same manner , as he did , soz. l. . c. . that if christians should obey those laws , they should be able to bring them about to something further , which they had designed . but if they would not , then they might proceed against them without any hope of pardon , as breakers of the laws of the empire , and represent them as turbulent and dangerous to the government . indeed , whatsoever the animadverter saith of the act of seditious conventicles here in england , as if it were anvill'd after another of the roman senate ; the christians of those ages had all the finest tools of persecution out of iulian's shop , and studied him then as curiously as some do now machiavel . these bishops it was , who , because the rule of christ was incomparable with the power that they assumed , and the vices they practised , had no way to render themselves necessary or tolerable to princes , but by making true piety difficult , by innovating laws to revenge themselves upon it , and by turning make-bates between prince and people , instilling dangers of which themselves were the authors . hence it is , that having awakened this jealousie once in the magistrate , against religion , they made both the secular and the ecclesiastical government so uneasie to him , that most princes began to look upon their subjects as their enemies , and to imagine a reason of state different from the interest of their people ; and therefore to weaken themselves by seeking unnecessary and grievous supports to their authority . whereas if men could have refrain'd this cunning , and from thence forcible governing of christianity , leaving it to its own simplicity and due liberty , but causing them in all other things to keep the kings and christs peace among themselves , and towards others , all the ill that could have come of it , would have been , that such kind of bishops should have prov'd less implemental ; but the good that must have thence risen to the christian magistrate and the church , then and ever after , would have been inexpressible . but this discourse having run in a manner wholly upon the imposition of creeds , may seem not to concern ( and i desire that it may not reflect upon ) our clergy , nor the controversies which have so unhappily vex'd our church ever since the reign of edward the sixth unto this day . only , if there might be something pick'd out of it towards the compromising of those differences ( which i have not from any performance of mine , the vanity to imagine ) it may have use as an argument , a majori ad minus , their disputes having risen only from that of creeds , ours from the imposition only of ceremonies , which are of much inferior consideration . faith being necessary , but ceremonies dispensable . unless our church should lay the same weight upon them , as one did . this is the time of her settlement , that there is a church at the end of every mile , that the soveraign powers spread their wings to cover and protect her , that kings and queens are her nursing fathers and nursing mothers , that she hath stately cathedrals ; there be so many arguments now to make ceremonies necessary , which may all be answered with one question that they use to ask children : where are you proud ? but i should rather hope from the wisdom and christianity of the present guides of our church , that they will ( after an age and more , after so long a time almost as those primitive bishops i have spoke of , yet suffered the novatian bishops in every diocess ) have mercy on the nation that hath been upon so slender a matter as the ceremonies and liturgy so long , so miserably harass'd . that they will have mercy upon the king , whom they know against his natural inclination , his royal intention , his many declarations , they have induced to more severities then all the reigns since the conquest will contain , if summ'd up together ; who may , as constantine among his private devotions put up one collect to the bishops , euseb. de vitâ const. . . date igitur mihi dies tranquillos & noctes curarum expertes . and it runs thus almost altogether verbatim in that historian ▪ grant , most merciful bishop and priest that i may have calm days , and nights free from care and molestation , that i may live a peaceable life in all godliness and holiness for the future by your good agreement ; which unless you vouchsafe me , i shall wast away my reign in perpetual sadness and vexation . for as long as the people of god stands divided by so unjust and pernicious a contention , how can it be that i can have any ease in my own spirit . open therefore by your good agreement the way to me , that i may continue my expedition towards the east ; and grant that i may see both you and all the rest of my people , having laid aside your animosities , rejoycing together , that we may all with one voice give lund and glory , for the common and good agreement and liberty , to god almighty for ever , amen . but if neither the people nor his majesty enter into their consideration . i hope it is no unreasonable request that they will be merciful unto themselves , and have some reverence at least for the naked truth of history , which either in their own times will meet with them , or in the next age overtake them : that they , who are some of them so old , that as confessors , they were the scars of the former troubles , others of them so young , that they are free from all the motives of revenge and hatred , should yet joyn in reviving the former persecutions upon the same pretences ; yea , even themselves in a turbulent , military , and uncanonical manner execute laws of their own procuring , and depute their inferior clergy to be the informers . i should rather hope to see not only that controversie so scandalous abolished , but that also upon so good an occasion as the author of the naked truth hath administred them , they will inspect their clergy , and cause many things to be corrected , which are far more ruinous in the consequence than the dispensing with a surplice . i shall mention some too confusedly , as they occur to my pen , at present , reserving much more for better leisure . methinks it might be of great edification , that those of them , who have ample possessions , should be in a good sense , multas inter opes inopes . that they would inspect the canons of the ancient councils , where are many excellent ones for the regulation of the clergy . i saw one , looking but among those of the same council of nice , against any bishops removing from a less bishoprick to a greater , nor that any of the inferior clergy should leave a less living for a fatter . that is methinks the most natural use of general , or any councils to make canons , as it were by-laws for the ordering of their own society ; but they ought not to take out , much less forge any patent to invade and prejudice the community . it were good that the greater church-men relyed more upon themselves , and their own direction , not building too much upon stripling chaplains , that men may not suppose the master ( as one that has a good horse , or a fleet hound ) attributes to himself the vertues of his creature . that they inspect the morals of the clergy ; the moral hereticks do the church more harm than all the non-conformists can do , or can wish it . that before they admit men to subscribe the thirty-nine articles for a benefice , they try whether they know the meaning . that they would much recommend to them the reading of the bible . 't is a very good book , and if a man read it carefully , will make him much wiser . that they would advise them to keep the sabbath : if there were no morality in the day , yet there is a great deal of prudence in the observing it . that they would instruct those that come for holy orders and livings , that it is a terrible vocation they enter upon ; but that has indeed the greatest reward . that to gain a soul is beyond all the acquists of traffick , and to convert an atheist , more glorious than all the conquests of the souldier . that betaking themselves to this spiritual warfare , they ought to disintangle from the world. that they do not ride for a benefice , as if it were for a fortune , or a mistress ; but there is more in it . that they take the ministry up not as a trade . that they make them understand as well as they can , what is the grace of god. that they do not come into the pulpit too full of fustian or logick ; a good life is a clergy-mans best syllogism , and the quaintest oratory ; and till they out-live 'm , they will never get the better of the fanaticks , nor be able to preach with demonstration of spirit , or with any effect or authority . that they be lowly minded , and no railers . but these things require a greater time , and to enumerate all that is amiss , might perhaps be as endless as to number the people ; nor are they within the ordinary sphere of my capacity . but to the judicious and serious reader , to whom i wish any thing i have said , may have given no unwelcome entertainment ; i shall only so far justifie my self , that i thought it no less concerned me to vindicate the laity from the impositions that the few would force upon them , than others to defend those impositions on behalf of the clergy . but the reverend mr. hooker in his ecclesiastical polity , says , the time will come when three words , uttered with charity and meekness , shall receive a far more blessed reward , than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit. and i shall conclude . i trust in the almighty , that with us , contentions are now at the highest float , and that the day will come ( for what cause is there of despair ) when the passions of former enmity being allaid , men shall with ten times redoubled tokens of unfainedly reconciled love , shew themselves each to other the same which joseph , and the brethren of joseph were at the time of their enterview in egypt . and upon this condition , let my book also ( yea , my self if it were needful ) be burnt by the hand of those enemies to the peace and tranquility of the religion of ●ngland . finis . to the king's most excellent majesty, the humble address of the cittizens and inhabitants that are of the presbyterian perswasion in the city of edinburgh and cannongate. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). b wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. b ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the king's most excellent majesty, the humble address of the cittizens and inhabitants that are of the presbyterian perswasion in the city of edinburgh and cannongate. england and wales. sovereign ( - : james ii) sheet ([ ] p.) printed by t.n., ; by the heir of andrew anderson ..., [london, : and re-printed at edinburgh, ] caption title. imprint from colophon. reproduction of original in: national library of scotland. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng presbyterians -- scotland -- edinburgh -- history -- th century -- sources. freedom of religion -- scotland -- history -- th century -- sources. great britain -- history -- james ii, - -- early works to . broadsides -- scotland -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the king 's most excellent majesty , the humble address of the cittizens and inhabitants that are of the presbyterian perswasion in the city of edinburgh and cannongate . may it please your most sacred majesty , we cannot find suitable expressions to evidence our most humble and grateful acknowledgments for your majesties late gracious declaration , by which we are happily delivered of many sad and grievous burthens we have long groaned under ; and ( all restraints , to our great joy , being taken off ) are allow'd the free and peaceable publick exercise of our religion , a mercy which is dearer to us than our lives and fortunes . could we open our hearts , your majesty would undoubtedly see what deep sense and true zeal for your service , so surprizing and signal a favour hath imprinted on our spirits ; for which , we reckon our selves highly obliged ( throwing our selves at your majesties feet ) to return your most excellent majesty our most humble , dutiful and hearty thanks : and we desire humbly to assure your majesty , that as the principles of the protestant religion , which according to our confession of faith we profess obligeth us all the days of our lives to that intire loyalty and duty to your majesties person and government , that no difference of religion can dissolve ; so we hope , and through gods assistance , shall still endeavour to demean ourselves is our practice , in such manner , as shall evidence to the world the truth and sincerity of our loyalty and gratitude , and make it appear , that there is no inconsist ency betwixt true loyalty and presbyterian principles . great sir ! we humbly offer our dutiful and faithful assurances , that as we have not been hitherto wanting in that great duty , which our consciences bind upon us to pray for your majesty ; so this late refreshing and unexpected favour will much more engage us in great sincerity , to continue still to offer up our desires to the god of heaven , by whom kings reign and princes decree justice , to bless your royal majesties person and government ; and after a happy and comfortable reign on earth , to crown you with an incorruptible crown of glory in heaven , which is most ardently prayed for , by , most dread soveraign , your majesties most humble , most loyal , most dutiful , and most obedient subjects . subscribed in our own names , and by order of the citizens and inhabitants of the presbyterian perswasion within your city of edinburgh and connongate . london , printed by t. n. and re-printed at edinburgh , by the heir of andrew anderson , printer to his most sacred majesty , city and colledge : . a short story of the rise, reign, and ruin of the antinomians, familists, and libertines that infected the churches of new-england and how they were confuted by the assembly of ministers there as also of the magistrates proceedings in court against them : together with god's strange remarkable judgements from heaven upon some of the chief fomenters of these opinions : and the lamentable death of mrs. hutchison : very fit for these times, here being the same errors amongst us, and acted by the same spirit : published at the instant request of sundry, by one that was an eye and ear-witness of the carriage of matters there. winthrop, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a short story of the rise, reign, and ruin of the antinomians, familists, and libertines that infected the churches of new-england and how they were confuted by the assembly of ministers there as also of the magistrates proceedings in court against them : together with god's strange remarkable judgements from heaven upon some of the chief fomenters of these opinions : and the lamentable death of mrs. hutchison : very fit for these times, here being the same errors amongst us, and acted by the same spirit : published at the instant request of sundry, by one that was an eye and ear-witness of the carriage of matters there. winthrop, john, - . weld, thomas, ?- . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed for tho. parkhurst ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john winthrop. cf. nuc pre- . formerly ascribed to thomas weld. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hutchinson, anne marbury, - . antinomianism. freedom of religion -- new england -- early works to . new england -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a short story of the rise , reign , and ruin of the antinomians , familists , and libertines that infected the churches of new-england : and how they were confuted by the assembly of ministers there : as also of the magistrates proceedings in court against them . together with god's strange remarkable judgements from heaven upon some of the chief fomenters of these opinions ; and the lamentable death of mrs. hutchison . very fit for these times ; here being the same errors amongst us , and acted by the same spirit . published at the instant request of sundry , by one that was an eye and ear-witness of the carriage of matters there . ephes. . . be no more children , tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine , by the slight of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive . beware , lest ye being led away with the error of the wicked , re fall from your own stedfastness , pet. . . london , printed for tho. parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns at the lower end of cheapside , near mercer's chappel , to the reader . i meeting with this book , newly come forth of the press , and being earnestly pressed by divers to perfect it , by laying down the order and sense of this story , ( which in the book is omitted ) though for mine own part , i was more slow unto it ; ( not as if i think it contains any thing but truth ; but ) because the names of some parties , that acted in our troubles , that have , since that time , ( i hope ) repented , and so god having pardoned their sins in heaven , i should have been loth to have revived them on earth ; but considering that their names are already in print without any act of mine , and that the necessity of the times call for it , and it 's requisite that gods great works should be made known ; i therefore , in a strait of time , ( not having had many hours , ) have drawn up this following preface , and prefixed hereunto , with some additions to the conclusion of the book . i commend thy self and this to the blessing of god. t. w. the preface . after we had escaped the cruel hands of persecuting prelates , and the dangers at sea , and had pretty well out-grown our wilderness troubles in our first plantings in new-england ; and when our common-wealth began to be founded , and our churches sweetly setled in peace , ( god abounding to us in more happy enjoyments then we could have expected : ) lest we should now grow secure , our wise god ( who seldom suffers his own , in this their wearisome pilgrimage , to be long without trouble ) sent a new storm after us , which proved the forest trial that ever befel us since we left our native soil . which was this , that some going thither from hence , full fraught with many unsound and loose opinions , after a time , began to open their packs , and freely vent their wares to any that would be their customers ; multitudes of men and women , church-members and others , having tasted of their commodities , were eager after them , and were streight infected before they were aware , and some being tainted conveyed the infection to others : and thus that plague first began amongst us , that had not the wisdom and faithfulness of him , that watcheth over his vineyard night and day , by the beams of his light and grace , cleared and purged the air , certainly we had not been able to have breathed there comfortably much longer . our discourse of them shall tend to shew , . what these opinions were . . how they spread so fast , and prevailed so suddenly . . how they did rage and reign when they had once gotten head . . how they fell and were ruined , when they were at highest . the opinions , ( some of them ) were such as these ; i say , some of them , to give but a tast , for afterwards you shall see a litter of fourscore and eleven of their brats hung up against the sun , besides many new ones of mistriss hutchinsons ; all which they hatched and dandled ; as , . that the law , and the preaching of it , is of no use at all , to drive a man to christ. . that a man is united to christ , and justified without faith : yea , from eternity . . that faith is not a receiving of christ , but a man's discerning that he hath received him already . . that a man is united to christ onely by the work of the spirit upon him , without any act of his . . that a man is never effectually christ's , till he hath assurance . . this assurance is onely from the witness of the spirit . . this witness of the spirit is meerly immediate , without any respect to the word , or any concurrence with it . . when a man hath once this witness , he never doubts more . . to question my assurance , though i fall into murther or adultery , proves that i never had true assurance . . sanctification can be no evidence of a mans good estate . . no comfort can he had from any conditional promise . . poverty in spirit ( to which christ pronounceth blessedness , mat. . . ) is onely this , to see i have no grace at all . . to see i have no grace in me , will give me comfort ; but to take comfort from sight of grace , is legal . . an hypocrite may have adam's graces that he had in innocency . . the graces of saints and hypocrites differ not . . all graces are in christ , as in the subject , and none in us , so that christ believes , christ loves , &c. . christ is the new creature . . god loves a man never the better for any holiness in him , and nevertheless , be he never so unholy . . sin in a child of god must never trouble him . . trouble in conscience for sins of commission , or for neglect of duties , shews a man to be under a covenant of vvorks . . all covenants to god expressed in works are legal works . . a christian is not bound to the law as a rule of his conversation . . a christian is not bound to pray except the spirit moves him . . a minister that hath not this ( new ) light , is not able to edifie others that have it . . the whole letter of the scripture is a covenant of works . . no christian must be prest to duties of holiness . . no christian must be exhorted to faith , love , and prayer , &c. except we know he hath the spirit . . a man may have all graces , and yet want christ. . all a believer's activity is onely to act sin . now these , most of them , being so gross , one would wonder how they should spread so fast and suddenly amongst a people so religious and well taught . for declaring of this be pleased to attend two things . . the nature of the opinions themselves , which open such a fair and easie way to heaven , that men may pass without difficulty . for , if a man need not be troubled by the law , before faith , but may step to christ so easily ; and then if his faith be no going out of himself to take christ , but only a discerning that christ is his own already , and is only an act of the spirit upon him , no act of his own done by him ; and if he , for his part , must see nothing in himself , have nothing , do nothing , only he is to stand still and wait for christ to do all for him . and then if after faith , the law no rule to walk by , no sorrow or repentance for sin ; he must not be pressed to duties , and need never pray , unless moved by the spirit : and if he falls into sin , he is never the more disliked of god , nor his condition never the worse . and for his assurance , it being given him by the spirit , he must never let it go , but abide in the height of comfort , tho' he falls into the grossest sins that he can . then their way to life was made easie , if so , no marvel so many like of it . and this is the very reason , besides the novelty of it , that this kind of doctrine takes so well here in london , and other parts of the kingdom , and that you see so many dance after this pipe , running after such and such , crowding the churches and filling the doors and windows , even such carnal and vile persons ( many of them ) as care not to hear any other godly ministers , but only their leaders . oh it pleaseth nature well to have heaven and their lusts too . . consider their slights they used in somenting their opinions , some of which i will set down : as i. they laboured much to acquaint themselves with as many , as possibly they could , that so they might have the better opportunity to communicate their new light unto them . ii. being once acquainted with them , they would strangely labour to insinuate themselves into their affections , by loving salutes , humble carriage , kind invitements , friendly visits , and so they would win upon men , and steal into their bosoms before they were aware . yea , assoon as any new-comers ( especially , men of note , worth and activity , fit instruments to advance their design ) were landed , they would be sure to welcome them , shew them all courtesie , and offer them room in their own houses , or of some of their own sect , and having gotten them into their web , they could easily poyson them by degrees ; it was rare for any man thus hooked in , to escape their leaven . iii. ( because such men as would seduce others , had need be some way eminent ) they would appear very humble , holy , and spiritual christians , and full of christ ; they would deny themselves far , speak excellently , pray with such soul-ravishing expressions and affections , that a stranger that loved goodness , could not but love and admire them , and so be the more easily drawn after them ; looking upon them as men and women as likely to know the secrets of christ , and bosom-counsels of his spirits , as any other . and this opinion of them was the more lifted up through the simplicity and weakness of their followers , who would , in admiration of them , tell others , that since the apostles time , they were perswaded , none ever received so much light from god , as such and such had done , naming their leaders . . as they would lift up themselves , so also their opinions , by guilding them over with specious terms of free-grace , glorious-light , gospel-truths , as holding forth naked christ : and this took much with simple honest hearts that loved christ , especiaily with new converts , who were lately in bondage under sin and wrath , and had newly tasted the sweetness of free-grace ; being now in their first love to christ , they were exceeding glad to embrace any thing , that might further advance christ and free grace ; and so drank them in readily . . if they met with christians that were full of doubts and fears about their conditions , ( as many tender and godly hearts there were ) they would tell them they had never taken a right course for comfort , but had gone on ( as they were led ) in a legal way of evidencing their good estate by sanctification , and gazing after qualifications in themselves , and would shew them from their own experience , that themselves for a long time , were befool'd even as they are now , in poring upon graces in themselves , and while they did so they never prospered ; but were driven to pull all that building down , and lay better and safer foundations in free-grace ; and then would tell them of this gospel-way we speak of , how they might come to such a setled peace that they might never doubt more , tho' they should see no grace at all in themselves : & so ( as it is said of the harlots dealing with the young man , pr. . . ) with much fair speech they caused them to yield , with the flattering of their lips they forced them . . they commonly labour'd to work first upon women , being ( as they conceived ) the weaker to resist ; the more flexible , tender , and ready to yield : and if once they could winde in them , they hoped by them , as by an eve , to catch their husbands also , which indeed often proved too true amongst us there . . as soon as they had thus wrought in themselves , and a good conceit of their opinions , by all these ways of subtilty , into the hearts of people ; nextly , they strongly endeavour'd with all the craft they could , to undermine the good opinion of their ministers , and their doctrine , and to work them clean out of their affections , telling them they were sorry that their teachers had so mis-bed them , and train'd them up under a covenant of works , and that themselves never having been taught of god , it is no wonder they did no better teach them the truth , and how they may sit till dooms-day under their legal sermons , and never see light ; and withal sometimes casting aspersions on their persons , and practice , as well as their doctrine , to bring them quite out of esteem with them . and this they did so effectually , that many declined the hearing of them , tho' they were members of their churches , and others that did hear , were so filled with prejudice that they profited not , but studied how to object against them , and censure their doctrine , which ( whilst they stood right ) were wont to make their hearts to melt and tremble . yea , some that had been begotten to christ by some of their faithful labours in this land , for whom they could have laid down their lives , and not being able to bear their absence , follow'd after them thither to new-england , to injoy their labours ; yet these falling acquainted with those seducers , were suddenly so alter'd in their affections towards those their spiritual fathers , that they would neither hear them , nor willingly come in their company , professing they had never received any good from them . . they would not , till they knew men well , open the whole mystery of their new religion to them , but this was ever their method , to drop a little at once into their followers as they were capable , and never would administer their physick . till they had first given good preparatives to make it work , and then stronger and stronger potions , as they found the patient able to bear . . they would in company now and then let fall some of their most plausible errors , as a bait let down to catch withal ; now if any began to nibble at the bait , they would angle still , and never give over till they had caught them ; but if any should espy the naked hook , and so see their danger , and profess against the opinions , then you should have them fairly retreat , and say , nay , mistake me not , for i do mean even as you do , you and i are both of one mind in substance , and differ only in words : by this kind of iesuitical dealing , they did not only keep their credit with them , as men that held nothing but the truth ; but gained this also , viz. that when afterwards , they should hear men taxed for holding errors , they would be ready to defend them , and say , ( out of their simplicity of heart ) such men hold nothing but truth , for i my self judged of them , as you do , but when i heard them explain themselves , they and i were both one : by this machivilian policy , these deluders wrere reputed sound in their judgments , and so were able to do the more hurt , and were longer undetected . . what men they saw eminent in the country , and of most esteem in the hearts of the people , they would be sure still , to father their opinions upon them , and say , i hold nothing but what i had from such and such a man , whereas their iudgments and expressions also were in truth far differing from theirs upon point of tryal , but if it came to pass , that they were brought face to face to make it good , ( as sometimes they have been ) they would winde out with some evasion or other , or else say , i understood him so : for it was so frequent with them to have many dark shadows and colours to cover their opinions and expressions withal , that it was a wonderful hard matter to take them tardy , or to know the bottom of what they said or sealed . . but the last and worst of all , which most suddenly diffused the venom of these opinions into the very veins and vitals of the people in the country , was mistress hutchinsons double weekly lecture , which she kept under a pretence of repeating sermons , to which resorted sundry of boston , and other towns about , to the number of fifty , sixty , or eighty at once ; where after she had repeated the sermon , she would make her comment upon it , vent her mischievous opinions as she pleased , and wreathed the scriptures to her own purpose ; where the custom was for her scholars to propound questions , and she ( gravely sitting in the chair ) did make answers thereunto . the great respect she had at first in the hearts of all , and her profitable and sober carriage of matters , for a time , made this her practice less suspected by the godly magistrates , and elders of the church there , so that it was winked at for a time , ( though afterward reproved by the assembly , and called into court but it held so long , until she had spread her leaven so far , that had not providence prevented , it had proved the canker of our peace , and ruine of our comforts . by all these means and cunning slights they used , it came about that those errors were so soon conveyed , before we were aware , not only into the church of boston , where most of these seducers lived , but also into almost all the parts of the country round about . these opinions being thus spread , and grown to their full ripeness and latitude , through the nimbleness and activity of their fomenters , began now to lift up their heads full high , to stare us in the face , and to confront all that opposed them . and that which added vigour and boldness to them was this , that now by this time they had some of all sorts , and quality , in all places to defend and patronise them ; some of the magistrates , some gentlemen , some scholars , and men of learning , some burgesses of our general court , some of our captains and souldiers , some chief men in towns , and some men eminent for religion , parts , and wit. so that wheresoever the case of the opinions came in agitation , there wanted not patrons to stand up to plead for them , and if any of the opinionists were complained of in the courts for their misdemeanors , or brought before the churches for conviction or censure , still , some or other of that party would not onely suspend , giving their vote against them , but would labour to justifie them , side with them , and protest against any sentence that should pass upon them , and so be ready , not onely to harden the delinquent against all means of conviction , but to raise a mutiny , if the major part should carry it against them ; so in town-meetings , military-trainings , and all other societies , yea , almost in every family , it was hard , if that some or other were not ready to rise up in defence of them , even as of the apple of their own eye . now , oh their boldness , pride , insolency , alienations from their old and dearest friends , the disturbances , divisions , contentions they raised amongst us , both in church and state , and in families , setting division betwixt husband and wife ! oh the sore censures against all sorts that opposed them , and the contempt they cast upon our godly magistrates , churches , ministers , and all that were set over them , when they stood in their way ! now the faithful ministers of christ must have dung cast on their faces , and be no better than legal preachers , baal's-priests , popish factors , scribes , pharisees , and opposers of christ himself . now they must be pointed at , as it were with the finger , and reproached by name , such a church officer is an ignorant man , and knows not christ ; such an one is under a covenant of works ; such a pastor is a proud man , and would make a good persecuter ; such a teacher is grossly popish ; so that through these reproaches , occasion was given to men to abhor the offerings of the lord. now , one of them in a solemn convention of ministers , dared to say to their faces , that they did not preach the covenant of free-grace , and that they themselves had not the seal of the spirit , &c. now , after our sermons were ended at our publick lectures , you might have seen half a dozen pistols discharged at the face of the preacher , ( i mean ) so many objections made by the opinionists in the open assembly against our doctrine delivered if it suited not their new fancies , to the marvellous weakning of holy truths delivered , ( what in them lay ) in the hearts of all the weaker sort ; and this done not once and away , but from day to day after our sermons ; yea , they would come when they heard a minister was upon such a point , as was like to strike at their opinions , with a purpose to oppose him to his face . now , you might have seen many of the opinionists rising up , and contemptuously turning their backs upon the faithful pastors of that church , and going forth from the assembly when he began to pray or preach . now , you might have read epistles of defiance and challenge , written to some ministers after their sermons , to cross and contradict truths by them delivered , and to maintain their own way . now , might one have frequently heard , both in court and church-meetings where they were dealt withal , about their opinions , and exorbitant carriages , such bold and menacing expressions as these . this i hold , and will hold to my death , and will maintain it with my blood . and if i cannot be heard here , i must be forced to take some other course . they said moreover what they would do against us ( biting their words in ) when such and such opportunities should be offered to them , as they daily expected . insomuch that we had great cause to have feared the extremity of danger from them , in case power had been in their hands . now , you might have heard one of them preaching a most dangerous sermon in a great assembly ; when he divided the whole country into two ranks , some ( that were of his opinion ) under a covenant of grace , and those were friends to christ ; others under a covenant of works , whom they might know by this , if they evidence their good estate by their sanctification : those were ( said he ) enemies to christ , herods , pilates , scribes and pharisees , yea , antichrists ; and advised all under a covenant of grace , to look upon them as such , and did , with great zeal , stimulate them to deal with them as they would with such : and withal alledging the story of moses that killed the egyptian , barely left it so : i mention not this or any thing , in the least degree , to reflect upon this man , or any other ; for god hath long since opened his eyes ( i hope ) but to shew what racket these opinions did make there , and will any where else where they get an head . now , might you have seen open contempt cast upon the face of the whole general court in subtile words to this very effect . that the magistrates were ahabs , amaziahs , scribes and pharisees , enemies to christ , led by satan , that old enemy of free-grace , and that it were better that a milstone were hung about their necks , and they were drowned in the sea , than they should censure one of their iudgment , which they were now about to do . another of them you might have seen so audaciously insolent , and high-flown in spirit and speech , that she bad the court of magistrates ( when they were about to censure her for her pernicious carriages ) take heed what they did to her , for she knew by an infallible revelation , that for this act which they were about to pass against her , god would ruin them , their posterity , and that whole common-wealth . by a little taste of a few passages instead of multitudes here presented , you may see what an heighth they were grown unto , in a short time ; and what a spirit of pride , insolency , contempt of authority , division , sedition , they were acted by : it was a wonder of mercy that they had not set our common-wealth and churches on a fire and consumed us all therein . they being mounted to this heighth , and carried with such a strong hand ( as you have heard , ) and seeing a spirit of pride , subtilty , malice , and contempt of all men , that were not of their minds , breathing in them ( our hearts sadded , and our spirits tyred ) we sighed and groaned to heaven , we humbled our souls by prayer and fasting that the lord would find out and bless some means and ways for the cure of this sore , and deliver his truth and our selves from this heavy bondage . which ( when his own time was come ) he hearkned unto , and in infinite mercy looked upon our sorrows , and did in a wonderful manner , beyond all expectation free us by these means following . . he stirred up all the ministers spirits in the country to preach against those errors and practices , that so much pestered the country , to inform , to confute , to rebuke , &c. thereby to cure those that were diseased already , and to give antidotes to the rest , to preserve them from infection . and tho' this ordinance went not without its appointed effect , in the latter respect , yet we found it not so effectual for the driving away of this infection , as we desired , for they ( most of them ) hardned their faces , and bent their wits how to oppose , and confirm themselves in their way . . we spent much time and strength in conference with them , sometimes in private before the elders only , sometimes in our publick congregation for all comers ; many , very many hours and half days together we spent therein to see if any means might prevail ; we gave them free leave , with all lenity and patience , to lay down what they could say for their opinions , and answered them , from point to point , and then brought clear arguments from evident scriptures against them , and put them to answer us even until they were oftentimes brought to be either silent , or driven to deny common principles , or shuffle off plain scripture ; and yet ( such was their pride and hardness of heart that ) they would not yield to the truth , but did tell us they would take time to consider of our arguments , and in the mean space meeting with some of their abetters , strengthened themselves again in their old way , that when we dealt with them next time , we found them further off than before , so that our hopes began to languish of reducing them by private means . . then we had an assembly of all the ministers and learned men in the whole country , which held for three weeks together at cambridge ( then called new-town ) mr. hooker , and mr. bulkley ( alias buckley ) being chosen moderators , or prolocutors , the magistrates sitting present all that time , as hearers , and speakers also when they saw fit : a liberty also was given to any of the country to come in and hear , ( it being appointed , in great part , for the satisfaction of the people ) and a place was appointed for all the opinionists to come in , and take liberty of speech , ( only due order observed ) as much as any of our selves had , and as freely . the first week we spent in confuting the loose opinions that we gathered up in the country , the summ of which is set down , pag. . &c. the other fortnight we spent in a plain syllogistical dispute , ( ad vulgus as much as might be ) gathered up nine of the chiefest points , ( on which the rest depended ) and disputed of them all in order , pro & con . in the forenoons we framed our arguments , and in the afternoons produced them in publick and next day the adversary gave in their answers , and produced also their arguments on the same questions ; then we answered them , and replyed also upon them the next day . these disputes are not mentioned at all in the following discourse , happily , because of the swelling of the book . god was much present with his servants , truth began to get ground , and the adverse party to be at a stand , but after discourse amongst themselves , still they hardned one another , yet the work of the assembly ( through gods blessing ) gained much on the hearers , that were indifferent , to strengthen them , and on many wavering , to settle them : the error of the opinions and wilfulness of their maintainer's , laid stark naked . . then after this mean was tried , and the magistrates saw that neither our preaching , conference , nor yet our assembly meeting did effect the cure , but that , still , after conference had together , the leaders put such life into the rest , that they all went on in their former course , not only to disturb the churches , but miserably interrupt the civil peace , and that they threw contempt both upon courts and churches , and began now to raise sedition amongst us , to the indangering of the common-wealth ; hereupon for these grounds named , ( and not for their opinions , as themselves falsely reported , and as our godly magistrates have been much traduced here in england ) for these reasons ( i say ) being civil disturbances , the magistrate convents them , ( as it plainly appears , pag. , . of this book ) and censures them ; some were disfranchised , others fined , the incurable amongst them banished . this was another mean of their subduing some of the leaders being down , and oth●…rs gone , the rest were weakned , but yet they ( for all this ) strongly held up their heads many a day after . . then god himself was pleased to step in with his casting voice , and bring in his own vote and suffrage from heaven by testifying his displeasure against their opinions and practices , as clearly as if he had pointed with his finger , in causing the two fomenting women in the time of the height of the opinions to produce out of their wombs , as before they had out of their brains , such monstrous births , as no chronicle ( i think ) hardly ever recorded the like . mistriss dier brought forth her birth of a woman child , a fish , a beast , and a fowl , all woven together in one , and without an head , as pag. , describes , to which i refer the reader . mistriss hutchison being big with child , and growing towards the time of her labour , as other women do , she brought forth not one , ( as mistris dier did ) but ( which was more strange to amazement ) thirty monstrous births or thereabouts , at once ; some of them bigger , some lesser , some of one shape , some of another ; few of any perfect shape , none at all of them ( as far as i could ever learn ) of humane shape . these things are so strange , that i am almost loth to be the reporter of them , lest i should seem to feign a new story , and not to relate an old one , but i have learned otherwise ( blessed be his name ) than to delude the world with untruths . and these things are so well known in new-england , that they have been made use of in publick , by the reverend teacher of boston , and testified by so many letters to friends here , that the things are past question . and see how the wisdom of god sitted this judgment to her sin every way , for look as she had vented mishapen opinions , so she must bring forth deformed monsters ; and as about thirty opinions in number , so many monsters ; and as those were publick , and not in a corner mentioned , so this is now come to be known and famous over all these churches , and a great part of the world. and though he that runs may read their sin in these judgments ; yet , behold the desperate and stupendious hardness of heart in these persons and their followers , who were so far from seeing the finger of god in all these dreadful passages , that they turned all from themselves upon the faithful servants of god that laboured to reclaim them , saying , this is for you , ye legalists , that your eyes might be farther blinded , by god's hand upon us , in your legal ways , and stumble and fall , and in the end break your necks into hell , if ye imbrace not the truth . now i am upon mistris hutchison's story , i will digress a little to give you a farther tast of her spirit , viz. after she was gone from us to the island , the church of boston sent unto her four of their members , ( men of a lovely and winning spirit , as most likely to prevail ) to see if they could convince and reduce her , according to thess. . . when they came first unto her , she asked from whom they came , and what was their business ? they answered , we are come in the name of the lord iesus , from the church of christ at boston , to labour to convince you of , &c — at that word she ( being filled with as much disdain in her countenance , as bitterness in her spirit ) replied , what , from the church at boston ? i know no such church , neither will i own it , call it the whore and strumpet of boston , no church of christ : so they said no more , seeing her so desperate , but returned . behold the spirit of error , to what a pass it drives a man ! this loud-speaking providence from heaven in the monsters , did much awaken many of their followers ( especially the tenderer sort ) to attend god's meaning therein ; and made them at such a stand , that they dared not slight so manifest a sign from heaven , that from that time we found many of their ears boared ( as they had good cause ) to attend to counsel , but others yet followed them . . the last stroke that slew the opinions , was the falling away of their leaders . . into more hideous and soul-destroying delusions , which rain ( indeed ) all religion , as , that the souls of men are mortal like the beasts . that there is no such thing as inherent righteousness . that these bodies of ours shall not rise again . that their own revelations of particular events were as infallible as the scripture , &c. . they also grew ( many of them ) very loose and degenerate in their practices ( for these opinions will certainly produce a filthy life by degrees ; ) as no prayer in their families , no sabbath , insufferable pride , frequ●…nt and hideous lying ; divers of them being proved guilty ; some of five , other of ten gross lies ; another falling into a lie , god smote him in the very act , that he sunk down into a deep swound , and being by hot waters recover'd , and coming to himself , said , oh god , thou mightst have struck me dead , as ananias and saphira , for i have maintained a lie . mistress hutchison and others cast out of the church for lying , and some guilty of fouler sins than all these , which i here name not . these things exceedingly amazed their followers , ( especially such as were led after them in the simplicity of their hearts , as many were ) and now they began to see that they were deluded by them . a great while they did not believe that mistress hutchison and some others did hold such things as they were taxed for , but when themselves heard her defending her twenty nine cursed opinions in boston church , and there falling into fearful lying , with an impudent fore-head in the open assembly , then they believed what before they could not , and were ashamed before god and men , that ever they were so led aside from the lord and his truth , and the godly counsel of their faithful ministers , by such an impostor as she was . now no man could lay more upon them , than they would upon themselves , in their acknowledgment . many after this came unto us , who before flew from us , with such desires as those in act. . men and brethren , what shall we do ? and did willingly take shame to themselves in the open assemblies by confessing ( some of them with many tears ) how they had given offence to the lord and his people , by departing from the truth , and being led by a spirit of error , their alienation from their brethren in their affections , and their crooked and perverse walking in contempt of authority , slighting the churches , and despising the counsel of their godly teachers . now they would freely discover the slights the adversaries had used to undermine them by , and steal away their eyes from the truth and their brethren , which before ( whilst their eyes were seal'd ) they could not see . and the fruit of this was great praise to the lord , who had thus wonderfully wrought matters about ; gladness in all our hearts and faces , and expressions of our renewed affections by receiving them again into our bosoms , and from that time untill now have walked ( according to their renewed covenants ) humbly and lovingly amongst us , holding forth truth and peace with power . but for the rest , which ( notwithstanding all these means of conviction from heaven and earth , and the example of their seduced brethrens return ) yet stood obdurate , yea more hardned ( us we had cause to fear ) than before ; we convented those of them that were members before the churches , and yet laboured once and again to convince them , not only of their errors , but also of sundry exorbitant practices which they had fallen into ; as manifest pride , contempt of authority , neglecting to hear the church , and lying , &c. but after no means prevailed , we were driven with sad hearts to give them up to satan . yet not simply for their opinions ( for which i find we have been slanderously traduced ) but the chiefest cause of their censure was their miscarriages ( as have been said ) persisted in with great obstinacy . the persons cast out of the churches , were about nine or ten , as far as i can remember ; who , for a space , continued very hard and impenitent , but afterward some of them were received into fellowship again , upon their repentance . these persons cast out , and the rest of the ring-leaders that had received sentence of banishment , with many others infected by them , that were neither censured in court , nor in churches , went all together out of our iurisdiction and precinct into an island called read-island , ( sirnamed by some , the island of errors ) and there they live to this day , most of them ; but in great strife and contention in the civil estate , and otherwise ; hatching and multiplying new opinions , and cannot agree , but are miserably divided into sundry sects and factions . but mistress hutchison being weary of the island , or rather , the island weary of her , departed from thence with all her family , her daughter , and her children , to live under the dutch , near a place called by sea-men , and in the map , hell-gate . ( and now i am come to the last act of her tragedy , a most heavy stroak upon her self and hers , as i received it very lately from a godly hand in new-england . ) there the indians set upon them , and slew her , and all her family ; her daughter , and her daughters husband , and all their children , save one that escaped ; ( her own husband being dead before ; ) a dreadful blow . some write that the indians did burn her to death with fire , her house and all the rest named that belonged to her ; but i am not able to affirm by what kind of death they slew her , but slain it seems she is , according to all reports . i never heard that the indians in those parts did ever before this , commit the like outrage upon any one family , or families ; and therefore gods hand is the more apparently seen herein , to pick out this woful woman , to make her , and those belonging to her , an unheard-of heavy example of their cruelty above others . thus the lord heard our groans to heaven , and freed us from this great and sore affliction , which first was small , like elias's cloud ; but after spread the heavens ; and hath ( through great mercy ) given the churches rest from this disturbance ever since ; that we know none that lifts up his head to disturb our sweet peace , in any of the churches of christ among us ; blessed for ever be his name . i bow my knees to the god of truth and peace , to grant these churches as full a riddance from the same , or like opinions , which do destroy his truth , and disturb their peace . a postscript . i think it fit to add a comfortable passage of news from those parts written to me very lately by a faithful hand , which as it affected mine own heart , so it may do many others , viz. that two sagamores , ( or indian princes ) with all their men , women and children , have voluntarily submitted themselves to the will and law of our god , with expressed desires to be taught the same ; and have for that end , put themselves under our government and protection , even in the same manner , as any of the english are : which morning-peep of mercy to them ( saith he ) is a great means to awaken the spirit of prayer and faith for them in all the churches . t. welde . a catalogue of such erroneous opinions as were found to have been brought into new-england , and spread under hand there , as they were condemned by an assembly of the churches , at new-town , aug. . . the errors . . in the conversion of a sinner , which is saving and gracious , the faculties of the soul , and workings thereof , in things pertaining to god , are destroyed and made to cease . the confutation . . this is contrary to the scripture , which speaketh of the faculties of the soul , ( as the understanding and the will ) not as destroyed in conversion , but as changed , luke . christ is said to have opened their understandings : ioh. . . peter is said to be led whither he would not , therefore he had a will. again , to destroy the faculties of the soul , is to destroy the immortality of the soul. error . instead of them , the holy ghost doth come and take place , and doth all the works of those natures , as the faculties of the human nature of christ do . confutation . this is contrary to scripture , which speaketh of god , as sanctifying our souls and spirits , thess. . . purging our consciences , heb. . . refreshing our memories , ioh. . . error . that the love which is said to remain , when faith and hope cease , is the holy ghost . confutation . this is contrary to the scriptures , which put an express difference between the holy ghost , and love , cor. . . and if our love were the holy ghost , we cannot be said to love god at all ; or if we did , it was , because we were personally united to the holy ghost . error , . that those that be in christ , are not under the law , and commands of the word , as the rule of life . alias , that the will of god in the word , or directions thereof , are not the rule whereunto christians are bound to conform themselves , to live thereafter . confutation , . this is contrary to the scriptures , which direct us to the law , and to the testimony , esa. . . which also speaks of christians , as not being without law to god , but under the law to christ , cor. . . error . the example of christ's life , is not a pattern according to ‑ which men ought to act , confutation . this position ( those actions of christ excepted which he did as god , or as a mediator , god and man , or on special occasions , which concern not us ) is unsound , being contrary to the scripture , wherein the example of christs life is propounded to christians , as a pattern of imitation , both by christ and his apostles , mat. . . learn of me , for i am meek , &c. cor. . . be ye followers of me , as i am of christ , ephes. . . walk in love , as christ hath loved us , pet. . . christ also suffered for us , leaving us an example , that ye should follow his steps , joh. . . he that saith he abideth in him , ought so to walk , even as he hath walked . error . the new creature , or the new man mentioned in the gospel , is not meant of grace , but of christ. confutation . the false-hood of this proposition appeareth from the scriptures , which first propound christ and the new creature , as distinct one from another , cor. . . if any man be in christ , he is a new creature . secondly , the new man is opposed to the old man , the old man is meant of lusts and vices , and not of adams person , ephes. . , . therefore the new man is meant of graces and vertues , and not of the person of christ , col. . , . thirdly , the new man is expresly said to consist in righteousness and true holiness , ephes. . . and to be renewed in knowledge , col. . . which are graces , and not christ. error . by love , corinth . . . and by the armour mentioned , ephes. . are meant christ. confutation . this position is near of kin to the former ; but , secondly , the opposite , cor. . meaneth that love which he exhorteth christians to bear one towards another , which if it were meant of christ , he might be said to exhort them to bear christ one to another , as well as to love one another . . faith and hope there mentioned , have christ for their object ; and if by love be meant christ , he had put no more in the latter word , than in the two former . . and besides , it may as well be said , faith in love , as faith in christ , and hope in love , as hope in christ , if that were the meaning . and by armour , ephes. . cannot be meant christ. first , because two parts of that armour are faith and hope , whereof the scriptures make christ the object : col. . . beholding the stedfastness of your faith in christ , cor. . . if in this life only we had hope in christ , &c. now these graces , and the object of them cannot be the same , secondly , a person armed with that armour , may be said to be a sincere , righteous , patient christian , but if by the armour be meant christ , such predication should have been destroyed , and you might more properly say , a christified christian. error . the whole letter of the scripture holds for a covenant of works . confutation . this position is unsound , and contrary to the constant tenor of the gospel , a main part of the scriptures which in the letter thereof holds not forth a covenant of works , but of grace , as appeareth , ioh. . . . tim. . . mat. . . heb. . , . . error . that god the father , son and holy ghost , may give themselves to the soul , and the soul may have true union with christ , true remission of sins , true marriage and fellowship , true sanctification from the blood of christ , and yet be an hypocrite . confutation . the word [ true ] being taken in the sense of the scriptures ; this also crosseth the doctrine of ephes. . . where righteousness and true holiness are made proper to him , that hath heard and learned the truth , as it is in jesus . error . as christ was once made flesh , so he is now first made flesh in us , ere we be carried to perfection . confutation . christ was once made flesh , ioh. . . no other incarnation is recorded , and therefore not to be believed . error . now in the covenant of works , a legalist may attain the same righteousness for truth , which adam had in innocency before the fall. confutation . he that can attain adams righteousness in sincerity , hath his sin truly mortified , but that no legalist can have , because true mortification is wrought by the covenant of grace , rom. . . sin shall not have dominion over you , for you are not under the law , but under grace . error . that there is a new birth under the covenant of works , to such a kind of righteousness , as before is mentioned , from which the soul must be again converted , before it can be made partaker of gods kingdom . confutation . this is contrary to tit. . . where the new birth is made a fruit of gods love towards man in christ ; of any new birth besides this , the scripture speaketh not . it is also contrary to cor. . where it is made the work of the spirit , ( that is , the gospel ) opposed to the letter ( that is , to the law ) to give life ; the new birth brings forth the new creature , and the new creature argueth our being in christ , cor. . . it is true indeed , gods children that are born again , must be converted again , as mat. . . but that conversion is not from that grace which they have received , but from the corruption that still remains . error . that christ works in the regenerate , as in those that are dead , and not as in those that are alive , or the regenerate after conversion are altogether dead to spiritual acts. confutation . this is contrary to rom. . . ye are alive unto god , in jesus christ , ephes. . , . he hath quickned us , pet. . . living stones , gal. . . the life that i now live . error . there is no inherent righteousness in the saints , or grace , and graces are not in the souls of believers , but in christ only . confutation . this is contrary to tim. . . the unfeigned faith that dwelt in thee , and dwelt first in thy grandmoother , pet. . . partakers of the divine nature ; which cannot be , but by inherent righteousness , tim. . . stir up the grace of god which is in thee , iohn . . of his fulness , we all receive grace for grace : but if there be no grace in us , we receive nothing from his fulness , cor. . . our inward man is renewed day by day , rom. . . with ephes. . . we are changed or renewed . error . there is no difference between the graces of hypocrites and believers , in the kinds of them . confutation . if this be true , then hypocrites are wise , humble , merciful , pure , &c. and so shall see god , mat. . . but they are called fools , mat. . . mat. . , , . neither shall they see god , mat. . . mat. . , , , . heb. . , , . the difference of the grounds , argueth the difference in the kinds of graces . error . true poverty of spirit , doth kill and take away the sight of grace . confutation . this is contrary to mark . . lord , i believe , help my unbelief : if this were so , then poverty of spirit should binder thankfulness ; and so one grace should hinder another , and the graces of the spirit should hinder the work of the spirit , and cross the end why he is given to us , cor. . . error . the spirit doth work in hypocrites , by gifts and graces , but in gods children immediately . confutation . this is contrary to nehem. . . so did i because of the fear of the lord : heb. . . noah moved with fear , prepared an ark. error . that all graces , even in the truly regenerate , are mortal and fading . confutation . this is contrary to ioh. . . they are graces which flow from a fountain which springeth up to eternal life ; and therefore not fading , ier. . , . error . that to call into question , whether god be my dear father , after or upon the commission of some hainous sins , ( as murther , incest , &c. ) doth prove a man to be in the covenant of works . confutation . it being supposed that the doubting here spoken of , is not that of final despair , or the like ; but only that the position denieth a possibility of all doubting to a man under a covenant of grace , this is contrary to scripture , which speaketh of god's people under a covenant of grace , in these or other cases , exercised with sweet doubtings and questions : david was a justifi'd man , ( for his sins were pardoned , sam. . , . ) yet his bones waxed old , through his roaring all the day long , and the heaviness of gods hand was upon him night and day , and the turning of his moisture into the drought of summer , psal. . , . and gods breaking his bones by with-holding from him the joy of his salvation , psal . shew that he was exercised with sweet doubts and questions at least , as this position speaketh of ; and the like may be gathered out of psal. . , . where the holy man asaph , mentioneth himself , being troubled when he remembred god , and that he was so troubled , he could not speak nor sleep , and expostulateth with god ; will the lord cast off for ever ? and will he be favourable no more ? and ver . , , , . these shew that he had at least sweet doubts , as the position mentioneth , and yet he was not thereby proved to be under a covenant of works ; for he doth afterward confess this to be his infirmity , vers . . and receiveth the comfort of former experiences , in former days , and his songs in the nights , and of gods former works , vers . , . , , . and he resumeth his claim of his right in god by vertue of his covenant , verse . error . to be justified by faith , is to be justified by works . confutation . if faith , in this position be considered not simply as a work , but in relation to its object , this is contrary to the scripture , that so appropriateth justification to faith ; as it denieth it to works , setting faith and works in opposition one against another in the point of justification , as rom. . . where is boasting then ? it is excluded . by what law ? by the law of works ? no , but by the law of faith ; and ver . . we conclude , that a man is justified by faith , without the works of the law , and chap. . . therefore it is by faith , that it may be by grace , compared with vers . . to him that worketh is the reward reckoned , not of grace , but of debt . error . none are to be exhorted to believe , but such whom we know to be the elect of god , or to have his spirit in them effectually . confutation . this is contrary to the scriptures , which maketh the commission which christ gave his disciples , in these words , go , preach the gospel to every creature ; he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , mark . , . where the latter words imply an exhortation to believe , and the former words direct , that this should not only be spoken to men known to be elected , or only to men effectually called , but to every creature ; the scripture also telleth us , that the apostles , in all places , called upon men to repent and believe the gospel , which they might not have done , had this position been true . error . we must not pray for gifts and graces , but only for christ. confutation . this is contrary to scripture which teacheth us to pray for wisdom , iam. . . and for every grace bestowed by vertue of the new covenant , ezek. . . as acknowledging every good gift , and every perfect giving is from above , and cometh down from the father of lights . the whole . psalm , besides innumerable texts of scripture , doth abundantly confute this , by shewing that the servants of god have been taught by the spirit of god to pray for every gift and grace needful for them , and not only for christ. error . he that hath the seal of the spirit , may certainly judge of any person , whether he be elected or no. confutation . this is contrary to deut. , . secret things belong to god ; and such is election of men not yet called . error . a man may have all graces and poverty of spirit , and yet want christ. confutation . this is contrary to mat. . . blessed are the poor in spirit : but without christ none can be blessed , ephes. . , . he that hath rightoousness and true holiness , hath learned the truth , as it is in jesus , and therefore hath christ. error . the faith that justifieth us is in christ , and never had any actual being out of christ. confutation . this is contrary to scripture , luke . . lord increase our faith , ergo , faith was in them , tim. . . faith is said to dwell in such and such persons , therefore faith was in them , isa. . . no man stirs up himself to lay hold upon thee . error . it is incompatible to the covenant of grace , to joyn faith thereunto . confutation . this is contrary to mark . . preach the gospel , he that believeth shall be saved , rom . . abraham believed , and it was accounted to him for righteousness , and abraham is a pattern to all under the covenant of grace , rom. . . error . to affirm there must be faith on mans part to receive the covenant , is to undermine christ. confutation . first , faith is requir'd on mans part to receive the covenant of grace , according to these scriptures , ioh. . . to as many as received him , even to them that believed on his name , mark . . he that believeth shall be saved . secondly , to affirm there must be faith on mans part to receive christ , is not to undermine christ , but to exalt him , according to these scriptures , ioh. . . he that believeth , hath put to his seal that god is true ; and so honours gods truth , which cannot undermine christ ; rom. . . but was strong in the faith ; giving glory to god , &c. error . an hypocrite may have these two witnesses , ioh. . . that is to say , the water and blood. confutation . no hypocrite can have these two witnesses , water and blood , that is , true justification and sanctification , for then he should be saved , according to these scriptures , rom. . . thes. . . acts , . error . if any thing may be concluded from the water and blood , it is rather damnation , than salvation . confutation . this is contrary to the scripture last mentioned . error . such as see any grace of god in themselves , before they have the assurance of gods love sealed to them , are not to be received members of churches . confutation . this is contrary to acts . , . where the eunuch saw his faith only , and yet was presently baptized ; and therefore by the same ground might be admitted . error . after the revelation of the spirit , neither devil nor sin can make the soul to doubt . confutation . this position savours of error , else asaph had not the revelation of the spirit , seeing he doubted , ( psal. . . ) whether he had not cleansed his heart in vain , and that god had forgotten to be gracious ; then also faith should be perfect , which was never found , no not in our father abraham . error . to act by vertue of , or in obedience to a command is legal . confutation . so is it also evangelical , the mystery of the gospel is said to be revealed for the obedience of faith , rom. . . also the lord jesus is said to be the author of salvation to all that obey him , heb. . . if we love christ , we are to keep his commandments , joh. . . error . we are not to pray against all sin , because the old man is in us , and must be ; and why should we pray against that which cannot be avoided ? confutation . this is contrary to thess. . . cor. . . error . the efficacy of christ's death is to kill all activity of graces in his members , that he might act all in all . confutation . this is contrary to rom. . . our old man is crucified wit●… him , that the body of sin might be destroyed , that we should not serve sin : contrary also to heb. . . that he might through death destroy him , &c. and ioh. . . whence we infer , that if christ came to destroy the body of sin , to destroy the devil , to dissolve the works of the devil , then not to kill his own graces , which are the works of his own spirit . error . all the activity of a believer , is to act to sin . confutation . contrary to rom. . . as also to gal. . . the spirit lusteth against the flesh. error . we are compleatly united to christ , before , or without any faith wrought in us by the spirit . confutation . the term [ united ] being understood of that spiritual relation of men unto christ , whereby they come to have life and right to all other blessings in christ , joh. . . he that hath the son hath life : and the term [ compleatly ] implying a presence of all those bands and ligaments and means , as are required in the word , or are any ways necessary to the making up of the union , we now conceive this assertion to be erroneous , contrary to scripture , that either expresly mentioneth faith when it speaketh of this union , ephes. . . that christ may dwell in your hearts by faith , gal. . . christ liveth in me by faith ; or ever implyeth it in those phrases that do express union ; as coming to christ , iohn . . and eating and drinking christ , vers . . compared with v. . having the son , iohn . . and receiving christ , iohn . . and marriage unto christ , ephes. . . if there be no dwelling of christ in us , no coming to him , no receiving him , no eating nor drinking him , no being married to him before and without faith ; but the former is true , therefore also the latter . error . there can be no true closing with christ in a promise that hath a qualification or condition expressed . confutation . this opinion we conceive erroneous , contrary to esay , . ho! every one that thirsteth , come ye to the waters . mat. . . come to me all ye that are weary and heavy laden . john . . if any man thirst , let him come to me and drink , revel . . . let him that is athirst come . mark . . repent and believe the gospel : if the word indefinitely be sanctified , for the begetting of faith , if the gospel it self be laid down in a conditional promise , if the apostles and prophets , and christ himself , have laid hold upon such promisea to help to union , and closing with himself , then there may be a true closing with christ , in a promise that hath a qualification or condition expressed . error . the due search and knowledge of the holy scripture , is not a safe and sure way of searching and finding christ. confutation . this is contrary to express words of scripture , joh. . . search the scriptures , for they testifie of me , act. , . to him give all the prophets witness , rom. . . the righteousness of god witnessed by the law and the prophets , esay . . to the law and to the testimony , act. . . the bereans were more noble , in that they searched the scriptures daily . if the prophets give witness to christ , if his righteousness be witnessed by law and prophets , and that they be noble that daily search the scriptures , and that christ so far alloweth their testimony of him , that the scripture saith , there is no light , but in and according to them , then the due searching and knowledge of scriptures , is a safe way to search christ ; but the former is true , and therefore also the latter . error . there is a testimony of the spirit and voice unto the soul , meerly immediate , without any respect unto , or concurrence with the word . confutation . this immediate revelation without concurrence with the word , doth not onely countenance but confirm that opinion of enthusiasme , justly refused by all the churches , as being contrary to the perfection of the scriptures , and perfection of god's wisdom therein : that which is not revealed in the scripture , ( which is objectum adaequatum fidei ) is not to be believed : but that there is any such revelation , without concurrence with the word , is no where revealed in the scripture , ergo. cor. . . presume not above that which is written . again , if there be any immediate revelation without concurrence of the word , then it cannot be tried by the word , but we are bid to try the spirits . to the law and testimony , esa. . . to try all things , thes. . . so the bereans , acts . . and the rule of trial is the word , ioh. . . error . there be distinct seasons of the workings of the several persons ; so the soul may be said to be so long under the fathers , and not the sons , and so long under the sons work , and not the spirits . confutation . this expression is not according to the pattern of wholsome words , which teacheth a joint-concurrence of all the persons , working in every work that is wrought ; so that we cannot say , the father works so long , and the son works not , because the same work at the same time is common to them both , and to all the three persons , as the father draws , ioh. . . so the son sends his spirit to convince , and thereby draws , ioh. . , . error . there is no assurance true or right , unless it be without fear and doubting . confutation . this is contrary to scripture , the penman of psal. . had true assurance , v. . and yet he had doubts and fears of god's eternal mercy , ver . , , . the best faith is imperfect , and admits infirmity , v. . cor. . , , . where there is flesh that doth fight against every grace , and act thereof , and is contrary to it , there can be no grace perfect , ergo , doubting may stand with assurance , gal. . . error . the spirit acts most in the saints , when they endeavour least . confutation . reserving the special seasons of god's preventing grace to his own pleasure ; in the ordinary constant course of his dispensation , the more we endeavour , the more assistance and help we find from him , prov. . , , . he that seeks and digs for wisdom as for treasure , shall find it , hos. . . chron. . . the lord is with you , while you are with him : if by endeavour be meant the use of lawful means and ordinances commanded by god to seek and find him in , then is it contrary to mat. . . ask , seek , knock , &c. error . no created work can be a manifest sign of god's love . confutation . if created works , flowing from union with christ , be included , it is against iohn's epistles , and many scriptures , which make keeping the commandments ; love to the brethren , &c. evidences of a good estate , so consequently of god's love . error . nothing but christ is an evidence of my good estate . confutation . if here christ manifesting himself in works of holiness , be excluded ; and nothing but christ nakedly revealing himself to faith , be made an evidence , it is against the former scriptures . error . it is no sin in a believer not to see his grace , except he be wilfully blind . confutation . this is contrary to the scripture , which makes every transgression of the law sin , though wilfulness be not annexed ; and this crosseth the work of the spirit which sheweth us the things that are given us of god ; cor. . . and crosseth also that command , cor. . . prove your faith , and therefore we ought to see it . error . the seal of the spirit is limited onely to the immediate witness of the spirit , and doth never witness to any work of grace , or to any conclusion by a syllogism . confutation . this is contrary to rom. . . to that which our spirit bears witness , to that the spirit of god bears witness , for they bear a joint witness , as the words will have it ; but our spirits bear witness to a work of grace ; namely , that believers are the children of god , ergo. error . that conditional promises are legal . confutation . contrary to ioh. . . mat. . , &c. error . we are not bound to keep a constant course of prayer in our families , or privately , unless the spirit stir us up thereunto . confutation . this is contrary to ephes. . . thess. . . error . it is poverty of spirit , when we have grace , yet to see we have no grace in our selves . confutation . the weak believer , mark . . was poor in spirit , yet saw his own faith weak , though it were . peter , when he was brought to poverty of spirit by the bitter experience of his pride , he saw the true love he had unto christ , and appealed to him therein , iohn . . paul was less than the least of all saints in his own eyes , therefore poor in spirit , yet saw the grace of god , by which he was that he was , and did what he did , and was truly nothing in his own eyes , when he had spoken of the best things he had received and done , ephes. . . if it be poverty of the spirit to see no grace in our selves , then should poverty of spirit cross the office of the spirit , which is to reveal unto us , and make us to see what god gives us , cor. . , , , . then it should make us sin , or cross the will of god , which is , that we should not be ignorant of the gracious workings of christ in us from the power of his death and resurrection , rom. . . know ye not , &c. then would it destroy a great duty of christian thankfulness , in , and for all the good things which god vouchsafeth us , thess. . . error . the soul need not to go out to christ for fresh supply , but it is acted by the spirit inhabiting . confutation . though we have the spirit acting and inhabiting us , this hinders not , but i may and need go out to christ for fresh supply of grace , john . . of whose fulness we have all received , and grace for grace ; cor. . . paul sought thrice to christ for fresh supply ; heb. . . look unto christ the author and finisher of our faith. we must look up to the hills from whence cometh our help , ephes. . . by whom all the body receiveth increase , and to the edifying of it self . error . it is legal to say , we act in the strength of christ. confutation . this is contrary to the scriptures , the gospel bids us be strong in the lord , and in the power of his might , ephes. . . and be strong in the grace that is in christ iesus , tim. . . and paul saith , i can do all things through christ that strengtheneth me , phil. . . and that was not legal strength . error . no minister can teach one that is anointed by the spirit of christ , more than he knows already , unless it be in some circumstances . confutation . this is also contrary to scripture , cor. . it is god that establisheth us with you , &c. ephes. . . and . , . the corinthians and ephesians were anointed and sealed , and yet were taught more of paul in his epistles than onely in some circumstances . error . no minister can be an instrument to convey more of christ unto another , than he by his own experience hath come unto . confutation . this is contrary to ephes. . , . the weakest minister may edifie the strongest christian which hath more experience than himself . error . a man may have true faith of dependance , and yet not be justified . confutation . this is contrary to the scripture , act. . . all believers are justified ; but they that have true faith of dependance are believers , therefore justified . error . a man is not effectually converted , till he hath full assurance . confutation . this is cross to the scripture , esa. . . wherein we see that a man may truly fear god ( therefore truly converted ) and yet walk in darkness , without clear evidence , or full assurance . error . to take delight in the holy service of god , is to go a whoring from god. confutation . no scripture commands us to go a whoring from god , but first , the scripture commands us to delight in the service of god , psal. . . serve the lord with gladness , esa. . . thou shalt call the sabbath thy delight ; ergo. secondly , god loves not such as go a whoring from him , psal. . ult . but god loves a chearful server of god , cor. . therefore such as serve him cheerfully , do not thereby go a whoring from him . error . to help my faith , and comfort my conscience in evil hours , from former experience of god's grace in me , is not a way of grace . confutation . what the saints have done , and found true comfort in , that is a way of grace ; but they did help their faith , and comfort their conscience from former evidences of god's grace in them , psal. . , , . i considered the days of old , and called to remembrance my songs in the night ; and by this raised he up his faith , as the latter part of this psalm sheweth ; and this was in evil hours , ver . , . cor. . . this is our rejoicing , that in simplicity and godly pureness , we have had our conversation ; and this was in sad hours , v. , , , , . iob . . none saith , where is god that made me , which giveth songs in the night ? here the not attending to former consolation , is counted a sinful neglect . error . a man may not be exhorted to any duty , because he hath no power to do it . confutation . this is contrary to phil. . , . work out your salvation , &c. for it is god that worketh in you both the will and the d●…ed , ephes. . . awake thou that sleepest , so cor. . ult . error . a man may not prove his election by his vocation , but his vocation by his election . confutation . this is contrary to thess. . . knowing your election , because our gospel came unto you , not in word onely , but in power , thess. . , . god hath elected you to life , through sanctification of the spirit , whereunto he hath called you by our gospel . error . all doctrines , revelations and spirits , must be tried by christ the word , rather than by the word of christ. confutation . this assertion of it extends to exclude the word ; we conceive it contrary to esa. . . iohn . . acts . . also to iohn . , . try the spirits , every spirit that confesseth that iesus christ is come in the flesh , &c. where spirits and doctrines confessing that christ is come in the flesh , are made distinct from christ. error . it is a dangerous thing to close with christ in a promise . confutation . this is contrary to ioh. . . act. . . esa. . , . mat. . . ioh. . . if christ in these places invite men to come unto him , and bids them incline and hearken , and tells them their souls shall live , and they shall drink and be refreshed by him , and by these promises incourageth them to close with him , then it is no dangerous thing to close with him in a promise , it is no danger to obey a command of god : but we are commanded to believe the gospel , mark . . the promise being a part of the gospel . error . no better is the evidence from the two witnesses of water and blood , mentioned ioh. . , , . than mount calvary , and the souldiers that shed christ's blood , and these might have drunk of it ; poor evidences . confutation . then what god hath ordained or made an evidence , is no better than what he hath not made ; then christ loseth his end in coming by water and blood , v. . then the spirit should agree no better with the witness of water and blood , then it doth with mount calvary , and the souldiers : but the spirit doth agree with the water and the blood , and not with the other , ioh. . . these three agree in one . error . a man must take no notice of his sin , nor of his repentance for his sin . confutation . this is contrary to david , whose sin was ever before him , psal. . he considered his ways ( and the evil of them ) that he might turn his feet to god's testimonies , psal. . . if we confess our sins , he is faithful and just , &c. if we say we have not sinned , we make him a liar , joh. . , . . iob took notice of sin , and of his repentance , i abhor my self and repent in dust and ashes , job . . david seeth , and saith , i am sorry for my sins , psal. . . solomon's penitent must know the plague in his heart , that is , his sin , and the punishment thereof , kings . . error . the church in admitting members , is not to look to holiness of life , or testimony of the same . confutation . this is contrary to rom. . . and the inscriptions of divers epistles , being directed to saints , and saints by calling ; and cor. . . churches of the saints , acts . the members there were said to repent before they were admitted , and cor. . the incestuous person should not then have been cast out for want of holiness , and paul could not be received into communion without testimony , act. . . error . to lay the brethren under a covenant of works , hurts not , but tends to much good , to make men look the better to their evidences . confutation . if that be done ungroundedly , it is contrary to esa. . . where woe is pronounced to such as call good evil , &c. and , ezek. . . that make such hearts sad , as the lord would not have sadded ; and it is against the rule of the covenant , cor. . besides , it may trench upon the devil's office , in accusing the brethren , and then it will be good to tell untruth , good to break house and church-communion , then good to break nearest relations , then good to bite one another , and good to offend the little ones , mat. . error . a man cannot evidence his iustification by his sanctification , but he must needs build upon his sanctification , and trust to it . confutation . first , this is contrary to iohn . , . where the holy ghost saith , that by unfeigned and hearty love we may have assurance ; and yet neither there , nor any where else , would have us trust to our sanctification ; so vers . . he that doth righteousness is righteous , as he is righteous . secondly , if poverty of spirit , which emptieth us of all confidence in our selves , may evidence a man's iustification , without trusting to it , then may sanctification without trusting to it ; but the former is true , therefore also the latter . thirdly , if it be an ordinance of god to evidence our iustification by our sanctification , then we may do this without trusting to it ; but that is apparent from pet. . . ergo. error . faith justifies an unbeliever , that is , that faith that is in christ justifieth me that have no faith in my self . confutation . this is contrary to hab. . . for if the just shall live by his faith , then that faith that justifies , is not in christ. so iohn . ult . he that believeth not , the wrath of god abideth on him : it is not another's faith will save me . error . though a man can prove a gracious work in himself , and christ to be the author of it , if thereby he will prove christ to be his , this is but a sandy foundation . confutation . this is contrary to these scriptures , iohn . . and . he that keepeth my commandments , is he that loveth me , and he that loveth me , shall be loved of my father ; and i will love him , and will shew my self unto him , john . . we know that we have passed from death to life , because we love the brethren : and john . . he that hath the son hath life : therefore he that can prove that he hath spiritual life , may assure himself that he hath christ. error . frequency , or length of holy duties , or trouble of conscience for neglect thereof , are all signs of one under a covenant of works . confutation . this is contrary to these scriptures , cor. . . be abundant always in the work of the lord : if the faithful in christ jesus be commanded to abound always in the work of the lord , that is , holy duties , then frequency in holy duties , is no sign of one under a covenant of works : but the former is true , therefore also the latter ; as also thess. . , . psal. . . evening and morning , and noon will i pray and make a noise , and he will hear me ; and elsewhere , seven times a day do i praise thee , psalm . . psal. . . so also contrary is the third branch to these scriptures , cor. . . . the corinthians were troubled in conscience , and sorrowed that they had neglected the holy duties of church-censure towards the incestuous person ; and esa. . . and . cant. . . rom. . . i do not the good i would ; which he lamenteth and complaineth of . error . the immediate revelation of my good estate , without any respect to the scriptures , is as clear to me , as the voice of god from heaven to paul. confutation . this is contrary to iohn . . he shall teach you all things , and bring all things to your remembrance , &c. whence we reason thus . if the spirit reveal nothing without concurrence of the word , then this revelation of the spirit , without respect to the word , is not clear , nor to be trusted : but the spirit doth reveal nothing , but with respect to the word , for iohn . . if the office of the spirit be to teach , and to bring to remembrance the things that christ hath taught us , esay . . whatever spirit speaks not according to this word , there is no light there . error . it is a fundamental , and soul-damning error , to make sanctification an evidence of justification . confutation . this is contrary to these scriptures , rom. . . they that walk after the spirit , are freed from condemnation , and are in christ , and so justified : so iohn . . in this are the children of god known , &c. error . christ's work of grace can no more distinguish between an hypocrite and a saint , then the rain that falls from heaven , between the just and the unjust . confutation . this proposition being general , includes all gracious works , and being so taken , is contradicted in the parable of the sower , mat. . , , . where the good ground is distinguished from the stony by this , that it brings forth fruit with patience , so hebr. . . there is something better in the saints , than those common gifts which are found in hypocrites . error . all verbal covenants , or covenants expressed in words , as church covenants , vows , &c. are covenants of works , and such as strike men off from christ. confutation first . this is contrary to scripture , esay . . one shall say , i am the lord 's , and another shall call himself by the name of the god of iacob : rom. . . with the mouth confession is made to salvation . secondly , contrary to reason , for then the covenant of grace is made a covenant of works , by the writing , reading and preaching of the same , for they are verbal expressions of the covenant on god's part , as church-covenants verbally express our closing herewith . error . the spirit giveth such full and clear evidence of my good estate , that i have no need to be tried by the fruits of sanctification , this were to light a candle to the sun. confutation . this opinion taken in this sense , that after the spirit hath testified a man's good estate , the person need not to be tried by the fruit of sanctification , is contrary to the scope of the whole first epistle of saint iohn , where variety of arguments are propounded to all believers in common , iohn . . to distinguish the persons of believers from unbelievers ; the water is annexed to the spirit and blood , iohn . . error . the devil and nature may be cause of a gracious work. confutation . the words are unsavoury , and the position unsound , for taking [ gracious ] according to the language of the scripture , gracious words , luke . . let your speech be gracious : gracious words are such as issue from the saving grace of christ's spirit in-dwelling in the soul , which neither the devil nor nature is able to produce ; for christ professeth , john . , . without me ye can do nothing : nothing truly gracious john . whatever is born of the flesh , is flesh ; and rom. . . in my flesh dwells no good , ( truly spiritual and gracious ) gen. . . every imagination of the thoughts of a man's heart is evil , and that continually : besides , the devil is that evil and wicked one , onely wickedness , an adversary to god's grace and glory ; that which is contrary to corrupt nature , and the hellish nature of satan , and above the power of both , they cannot be the causes of gracious works . error . sanctification is so far from evidencing a good estate , that it darkens it rather ; and a man may more clearly see christ , when he seeth no sanctification , than when he doth ; the darker my sanctification is , the brighter is my justification . confutation . this is contrary to the scripture of truth , which rather giveth the name of light to sanctification and holiness , and even for this use , to clear our justification , iohn . , . for the holy ghost concludes , as from a clear and infallible promise , and proposition , that if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , then doth the blood of christ cleanse us from all sin ; meaning , that then and thereby it appeareth that it is done : as by the contrary , unholiness , and unholy walking is like darkness , which obscureth all the goodly presumption , flourishes , and hopes of an unregenerate man , vers . . for this purpose , ioh. . . the water of sanctification is made a witness ; now the nature of a witness is not to darken and obscure matters in question , but to clear them ; and psal. . , , . when david saw his heart so unclean , and his spirit so altogether out of order , his justification was not then brighter , for then he should have had the joy of his salvation more full , and not so to sink , as that he begs it might be restored to him , as implying , that his joy for the present was wanting to him . error . god hath given six witnesses , three in heaven , and three in earth , to beget and build justifying faith upon . confutation . this expression answers not the pattern of wholsom words , for if this position be taken thus , god hath given all these six witnesses both to beget and also to build justifying faith upon , it is contrary to scripture , for god hath not given all these six witnesses to beget justifying faith , because the water of sanctification , which is one of the six , doth not go before justifying faith , but followeth after it , for our hearts are justified by faith , act. . . error . if a member of a church be unsatisfied with any thing in the church , if he express his offence , whether he hath used all means to convince the church or no , he ●…y depart . confutation . contrary to the rule of our saviour , matth. . if thy brother effend ▪ ( convictingly ) admonish ; whence it is evident , that in our carriage towards a private brother , we must convince him , before admonish him , much less separate from him . therefore our carriage towards the whole church must upon greater reason be with like prudence , and tenderness ; whence the argument follows thus . an offence taken before conviction , will not bear an admonition , much less separation from a brother or church ; but the offence in the question propounded is such , ergo. error . if a man think he may edifie better in another congregation , than in his own , that is ground enough to depart ordinarily , from word , seals , fastings , feastings , and all administrations in his own church , notwithstanding the offence of the church , often manifested to him for so doing . confutation . it is contrary to the condition and station of a member of the body in which he stands , cor. , . a member must not put it self from the body upon its own thoughts ; as the admission of a member was by the consent of the whole , so likewise must his dismission be . it is contrary also to the duty of a member , ephes. . . there must be an effectual working in every part for the edification of the whole , which this departure from the administration of all the holy ordinances in the church will necessarily hinder . it is contrary also to the good of the whole church , and the rule which the lord hath appointed for the preservation thereof , cor. . . god is not the author of confusion , and therefore not of this practice which will certainly bring it ; for if one member , upon these his imaginations , may depart , why may not ten , yea twenty , yea an hundred ? why may not the pastor , upon such grounds , leave his people , as well as they him , considering the tie is equal on both parts ? error . where faith is held forth by the ministery , as the condition of the covenant of grace on man's part , as also evidencing justification by sanctification , and the activity of faith , in that church there is not sufficient bread . confutation . this position seemeth to deny faith to be a condition at all , or at all active , and so if condition in this place signifie a qualification in man wrought by the holy ghost , without which the promises do not belong to men , this is contrary to scripture , for iohn . . christ is the bread of life ; and yet in the same chapter , faith is held out as a condition of the covenant by the ministery of christ himself ; and the activity of it is held forth in these words , verily i say unto you , unless ye eat the flesh , and drink the blood of the son of man , you have no life in you ; and who so eateth , &c. as for the lawfulness of evidencing justification by sanctification ( if it be understood of that sanctification which is by faith in christ ) it is contrary to the intent of the whole epistle of iohn , besides many other places of scripture , which yet hold forth bread sufficient ( if by sufficient is meant that d●…ctrin , which in its right use is wholsom and good food ) for it was written th●… their joy might be full ; yet the evidencing of justification by sanctification is expresly held forth , chap. . vers . where he saith , if we walk in the light , as christ is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of iesus christ cleanseth us from all sin : by walking in the light , in opposition to walking in darkness spoken of before , vers . . sanctification is evidently meant , and this is expresly noted to be an evidence of our good condition , when it is said , if we so walk , the blood of christ cleanseth us from all sin . error . a minister must not pray nor preach against any error , unless he declare in the open congregation , upon any members inquiry , the names of them that hold them . confutation . this is contrary to scriptures , which teach ministers to pray and preach against all errors by whomsoever they be held , when it calleth them watchmen and stewards , in whom faithfulness is required in all administrations : yet withal it enjoyneth them , if a brother sin not openly , to admonish him in secret , first between them two alone , and afterward in the presence of two or three witnesses , and after that ( and not before ) to bring the matter to the church , mat. . , , . unsavoury speeches confuted . these that follow were judged by the assembly aforesaid , as unsafe speeches . . to say that we are justified by faith , is an unsafe speech , we must say , we are iustified by christ. answer . false , for the constant language of the scripture is not unsafe ; but we are justified by faith , is the constant language of the scripture , rom. . . being justified by faith ; the righteousness of faith , rom. . , . righteousness by faith , phil. . , . . the distinct phrase of the scripture used in distinguishing legal and evangelical righteousness is no unsafe speech ; but such is this , rom. . , . israel found not righteousness , because they sought it of the law , and not of , or by faith , so rom. . , . the righteousness of faith , saith thus , &c. the apostle makes these two so directly opposite , as membra dividentia , or contrary species , that there is no danger one should be taken for another , but that it 's so safe , as that he that affirms the one denies the other : yea , in the most exact expression that ever paul made , to exclude whatsoever might be unsafe towards a man's justification , you have this phrase , yea twice in the same verse , phil. . . not having mine own righteousness , which is of the law , but that which is through the faith of christ ; and again , the righteousness which is of god by faith ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) ergo , it is no unsafe speech , yea , it must be said on the contrary from those grounds , that to say a man is justified before faith , or without faith , is unsafe , as contrary to the language of the scriptures . and for the second part , that we must say , we are justified by christ , it is true so far , as that it cannot be denied , nor is it unfound or unsafe at all so to speak , but if it mean a must of necessity always , or onely so to speak , as it is here set in opposition to the phrase of being justified by faith , then it is utterly false , for as much as the scripture leads us along in the way of other expressions ordinarily , and the apostle gives us the truth of doctrine and soundness of phrase together , rom. . . christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth . . to evidence justification by sanctification , or graces , savours of rome . answer . not so , . rome acknowledgeth not justification in our common sense , scil. by righteousness imputed . . rome denies evidencing of our justification and peace with god , and teacheth doctrine of doubting , and professeth that a man cannot know what god will do with him for life or death , unless by special revelation , which is not ordinary : but if they mean old rome , or paul's rome , to which he wrote , it 's true , that it savours of the doctrine that they received , as appeareth , rom. . . all things co-work for good ( the evil of every evil being taken away , which is a point of justification , and this is propounded under the evidence of the love of god ) to them that love him , because , rom. . , , , . the evidencing of our being in christ , freedom from condemnation and adoption , is prosecuted by arguments from sanctification , as by having the spirit , being led by the spirit , walking after the spirit , mortifying the deeds of the flesh by the spirit : and if hereto were added the doctrine of sr. iohn , so abundant this way in his first epistle ( whereof i have already made mention ) i doubt not , but it was the faith of the church of rome that then was , so that the speech is unsavoury , and casting a foul aspersion on a good thing expressed in the scriptures , but as for the point it self , that is included , we refer it to it's place , to be discussed , when it is rightly stated . . if i be holy , i am never the better accepted of god ; if i be unholy , i am never the worse ; this i am sure of , he that hath elected me must save me . answ. these words savour very ill , and relish of a careless and ungracious spirit , for howsoever we grant that our acceptation unto justification is always in and through christ the same in god's account , yet this expression imports , that though a man's conversation be never so holy and gracious , yet he can expect never the more manifestation of god's kindness and love to him , contrary to psal. . ult . to him that orders his conversation aright , i will shew the salvation of god ; and iohn . . it implies secondly , that though a man's conversation be never so vile and sensual , yet he need not fear nor expect any farther expression of god's displeasure and anger to break forth against him , or withdrawings of his favour from him , contrary to psal. . , , . where god breaks david's bones for his sin ; and ionah . . ionah was as one cast out of god's presence ; and chron. . . if you forsake him he will forsake you : and , in a word , it imports , as if god neither loved righteousness , nor hated wickedness , contrary to psal. . , . and did take no delight in the obedience of his people , contrary to psal. . . the lord delighteth in those that fear him , &c. as concerning the last clause , he that hath elected me must save me : it is true , the foundation of god's election remaineth sure , yet it is as true , that whom he chuseth , he purposeth to bring to salvation , through sanctification of the spirit , thes. . . . if christ will let me sin , let him look to it , upon his honour be it . answ. this resorts the lord's words upon himself , prov. . , . keep thine heart , &c. ponder thy paths , &c. and therefore no less blasphemous , and is contrary to the professed practice of david , psal. . . i was upright before him , and kept my self from mine iniquity : the latter clause puts the cause of god's dishonour upon himself , no less blasphemous than the former , and contrary to rom. . . where the dishonouring of god is laid upon themselves . . here is a great stir about graces , and looking to hearts , but give me christ , i seek not for graces , but for christ ; i seek not for promises , but for christ ; i seek not for sanctification , but for christ ; tell not me of meditation and duties , but tell me of christ. answ. . this speech seemeth to make a flat opposition between christ and his graces , contrary to that in joh. . . of his fulness we all received , and grace for grace ; and between christ and his promises , contrary to gal. . , . christ was made a curse , that we might receive the promise of the spirit ; and , luk. . . with . and betwixt christ and all holy duties , contrary to tit. . . and therefore hold forth expressions not agreeing to wholsome doctrine . . a living faith , that hath living fruits , may grow from the living law. answ. this whole speech is utterly cross to the sound form of words required , tim. . . hold fast the form of sound words , . that a hypocrite may have a living law , is contrary to iam. . . where the hypocrites faith is called a dead faith. . that a hypocrite may bring forth living fruit , is contrary to that , heb. . . . that all this grows from a living law , contrary to cor. . . where the law is called a killing letter , and to gal. . . if there had been a law which could have given life , &c. . i may know i am christ's , not because i do crucisie the lusts of the flesh , but because i do not crucifie them , but believe in christ that crucifieth my lusts for me . answ. . the phrase is contrary to the scripture language , gal. . . they that are christ's , have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts . . it savours of the flesh , for these three things may seem to be expressed in it . . if scripture makes not opposite , but subordinate , rom. . . i through the spirit crucifie the flesh . . that if i do not crucifie my lusts , then there is an open and free way of looking to christ , contrary to the scripture , mat. . . blessed are the pure in heart , for they shall see god , both in boldness of faith here , and fruition hereafter , tim. . . let every one that names the lord iesus , depart from iniquity . . that believing in christ may ease me from endeavouring to crucifie my lusts in my own person ; which is so gross , that it needs no more confutation than to name it . . the safe sense that may be possibly intended in such a speech , is this , if i crucifie the flesh in my own strength , it is no safe evidence of my being in christ ; but if renouncing my self , i crucifie the flesh in the strength of christ , applying his death by faith , it is a safe evidence of my being in christ : but this sense conveighed in these words , is to conveigh wholesome doctrine in an unwholsome channel , and a darkening and losing the truth in an unsavoury expression . . peter more leaned to a covenant of works than paul , paul's doctrine was more for free-grace than peters . answ. to oppose these persons and the doctrine of these two apostles of christ , who were guided by one and the same spirit in preaching and penning thereof , ( pet. . . holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost , tim. . . all scripture is given by inspiration of god ) in such a point as the covenant of works and grace , is little less than blasphemy . . if christ be my sanctification , what need i look to any thing in myself , to evidence my iustification ? answ. this position is therefore unsound , because it holds forth christ to be my sanctification , so as that i need not look to any inherent holiness in my self ; whereas christ is therefore said to be our sanctification , because he works sanctification in us , and we daily ought to grow up in him , by receiving new supply and increase of grace from his fulness , according to pet. . . grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our lord iesus christ. the proceedings of the general court holden at new-town , in the massachusets in new-england , octob. . . against mr. wheelwright , and other erroneous and seditious persons , for their disturbances of the publick peace . although the assembly of the churches had confuted and condemned most of those new opinions which were sprung up amongst us , and mr. cotton had in publick view consented with the rest , yet the leaders in those erroneous ways would not give in , but stood still to maintain their new light , which they had boasted of , and that the difference was still as wide as before , viz. as great as between heaven and hell : mr. wheelwright also continued his preaching after his former manner , and mistriss hutchison her wonted meetings and exercises , and much offence was still given by her , and others , in going out of the ordinary assemblies , when mr. wil. began any exercise ; and some of the messengers of the church of boston had contemptuously withdrawn themselves from the general assembly , with professed dislike of their proceedings , and many evidences brake forth of their discontented and turbulent spirits ; it was conceived by the magistrates , and others of the countrey , that the means which had been used proving uneffectual , the case was now desperate , and the last remedy was to be applied , and that without farther delay , lest it should be attempted too late , when fitter opportunity might be offered for their advantage , as they had boasted , and did certainly expect upon the return of some of their chief supporters , who by a special providence were now absent from them : and for this end the general court being assembled in the ordinary course , it was determined to begin with these troublers of our peace , and to suppress them by the civil authority , whereunto there was a fair occasion offered upon a seditious writing , which had been delivered into the court in march , when mr. wheel . was convict of sedition , &c. under the hands of more than threescore of them , and intituled , a remonstrance , or petition ; the contents whereof were as followeth : we whose names are under-written ( have diligently observed this honoured courts proceedings against our dear and reverend brother in christ , mr. wheel . now under censure of the court for the truth of christ ) we do humbly beseech this honourable court , to accept this remonstrance and petition of ours , in all due submission tendred to your worships . for first , whereas our beloved brother mr. wheel . is censured for contempt , by the greater part of this honoured court , we desire your worships to consider the sincere intention of our brother to promote your end in the day of fast , for whereas we do perceive your principal intention the day of fast looked chiefly at the publick peace of the churches , our reverend brother did to his best strength , and as the lord assisted him , labour to promote your end , and therefore endeavoured to draw us nearer unto christ , the head of our union , that so we might be established in peace , which we conceive to be the true way , sanctified of god , to obtain your end , and therefore deserves no such censure as we conceive . secondly , whereas our dear brother is censured of sedition , we beseech your worships to consider , that either the person condemned must be culpable of some seditious fact , or his doctrin must be seditious , or must breed sedition in the hearts of his hearers , or else we know not upon what grounds he should be censured . now to the first , we have not heard any that have witnessed against our brother for any seditious fact. secondly , neither was the doctrine it self , being no other but the very expressions of the holy ghost himself , and therefore cannot justly be branded with sedition . thirdly , if you look at the effects of his doctrine upon the hearers , it hath not stirred up sedition in us , not so much as by accident ; we have not drawn the sword , as sometimes peter did rashly , neither have we rescued our innocent brother , as sometimes the israelites did ionathan , and yet they did not seditiously . the covenant of free grace held forth by our brother , hath taught us rather to become humble suppliants to your worships , and if we should not prevail , we would rather with patience give our cheeks to the smiters . since therefore the teacher , the doctrine , and the hearers be most free from sedition ( as we conceive ) we humbly beseech you in the name of the lord iesus christ , your judge and ours , and for the honour of this court , and the proceedings thereof , that you will be pleased either to make it appear to us , and to all the world , to whom the knowledge of all these things will come , wherein the sedition lies , or else acquit our brother of such a censure . farther , we beseech you , remember the old method of satan , the ancient enemy of free grace , in all ages of the churches , who hath raised up such calumnies against the faithful prophets of god , eliah was called the troubler of israel , king. . , amos was charged for conspiracy , amos . . paul was counted a pestilent fellow , or mover of sedition , and a ring-leader of a sect , acts . . and christ himself , as well as paul , was charged to be a teacher of new doctrine , mark . . acts . . now we beseech you consider , whether that old serpent work not after his old method , even in our days . farther , we beseech you , consider the danger of medling against the prophets of god , psal. . , . for what ye do unto them , the lord jesus takes as done unto himself ; if you hurt any of his members , the head is very sensible of it : for so saith the lord of hosts , he that toucheth you , toucheth the apple of mine eye , zech. . . and better a mill-stone were hanged about our necks , and that we were cast into the sea , than that we should offend any of these little ones which believe on him , mat. . . and lastly , we beseech you consider , how you should stand in relation to us , as nursing fathers , which give us incouragement to promote our humble requests to you , or else we would say with the prophet , isa. . . look from me , that i may weep bitterly ; labour not to comfort me , &c. or as ier. . . oh that i had in the wilderness a lodging-place of a way-faring man. and thus have we made known our griefs and desires to your worships , and leave them upon record with the lord and with you , knowing that if we should receive repulse from you , with the lord we shall find grace . amongst others who had subscribed to this writing , william aspinwall was one , and being returned for one of the deputies of boston , it was propounded in the court , whether he was fit to be received a member of the court , having subscribed to the said writing , which was so much to the dishonour and contempt thereof , &c. whereupon he was demanded if he would justifie the matter contained in the said writing : which when he had peremptorily affirmed by the vote of the court he was presently dismissed : whereupon mr. cogshall , another of the deputies of boston , who had not subscribed to the said writing , being then a deputy of the court , spake very boldly to the court , and told them , that seeing they had put out mr. aspinwall for that matter , they were best make one work of all , for as for himself , though his hand were not to the petition , yet he did approve of it , and his hand was to a protestation , which was to the same effect ; whereupon the court dismissed him also , and sent word to boston to chuse two new deputies ; then mr. coddington the third deputy , moved the court ( by order from the town of boston ) that the former censure against mr. vvheelwright might be reversed , and that the order made against receiving such as should not be allowed by the magistrates might be repealed ; whereby the court perceived their obstinate resolution in maintaining this faction , and thereupon gave order he should be sent for ; and for the law , the answer was , that whereas a declaration had been made of the equity of that law , and that specially for the satisfaction of those of boston , and an answer had been published by some of them , wherein much reproach and slander had been cast upon the court , to which a reply had been made above six weeks since , but was kept in upon expectation that the late assembly would have had some good eff●…ct , in clearing the points in controversie , and reconciling the minds of the adverse party , but they continuing obstinate and irreconcileable , it was thought fit the whole proceedings about the law should be brought forth ; and accordingly the next day , the declaration , the answer , and the reply , were all brought to the court , and there openly read ; which gave such satisfaction to those which were present , as no man ought to object , and some that were of the adverse party , and had taken offence at the law , did openly acknowledge themselves fully satisfied . when the warrant came to the town of boston , they assembled together and agreed ( the greater part of them ) to send the same deputies which the court have rejected , pretending that it was their liberty , and those were the ablest men , &c. but mr. cotton coming amongst them , and perceiving their rash and contemptuous behaviour , by his wisdom diverted them from that course ; so they chose two other , but one of them they knew would be rejected , because his hand was also to the seditious writing , as it fell out , for he refusing to acknowledge his fault in it , was also dismissed , and a new warrant sent for another to be chosen , which they never made any return of , but that contempt the court let pass . when mr. wheelwright appeared , it was declared to him , that whereas he was long since convicted of sedition and contempt of authority , and time had been given him from court to court , to come to the knowledge of his offence , the court thought it now time to know how his mind stood , whether he would acknowledge his offence , or abide the sentence of the court ? his answer was to this effect , that he had committed no sedition nor contempt , he had delivered nothing but the truth of christ , and for the application of his doctrine , it was by others , and not by him , &c. to which it was answered by the court , that they had not censured his doctrine , but left it as it was ; but his application , by which he laid the magistrates , and the ministers and most of the people of god in these churches , under a covenant of works , and thereupon declared them to be enemies to christ , and antichrists , and such enemies as herod and pilate ; and the scribes and pharisees , &c. perswading the people to look at them , and deal with them as such , and that he described them so , as all men might know who he meant , as well as if he had named the parties ; for he was present in the court a little before , when both magistrates and ministers did openly profess their judgment in that point , and that they did walk in such a way of evidencing justification by sanctification , &c. as he held forth to be a covenant of works . secondly , the fruits of that sermon of mr. wheelwrights , together with the declaration of his judgment in that point both before and since , have declared it to tend to sedition : for whereas before he broached his opinions , there was a peaceable and comely order in all affairs in the churches , and civil state , &c. now the difference which he hath raised amongst men , by a false distinction of a covenant of grace and a covenant of works ; whereby one party is looked at as friends to christ , and the other as his enemies , &c. all things are turned upside down amongst us . as first , in the church , he that will not renounce his sanctification , and wait for an immediate revelation of the spirit , cannot be admitted , be he never so godly ; he that is already in the church , that will not do the same , and acknowledge this new light , and say as they say , is presently noted , and under esteemed , as favouring of a covenant of works ; thence it spreads into the families , and sets divisions between husband and wife , and other relations there , till the weaker give place to the stronger , otherwise it turns to open contention ; it is come also into civil and publick affairs , and hath bred great disturbance there , as appeared in the late expedition against the p●…quids ; for whereas in former expeditions the town of boston was as forward as any others to send of their choice members , and a greater number th●… other town●… , in the time of the former governour , now in this last service they sent not a member , but one or two whom they cared not to be rid of , and but a few others , and those of the most refuse sort , and that in such a careless manner , as gave great discouragement to the service , not one man of that side accompanying their pastor , when he was sent by the joint consent of the court , and all the elders upon that expedition , not so much as bidding him farewel ; what was the reason of this difference ? why , nothing but this , mr. wheelwright had taught them that the former governour , and some of the magistrates then were friends of christ and free-grace , but the present were enemies , &c. antichrists , persecutors : what was the reason that the former governour never stirred out , but attended by the sergeants , with halberts or carbines ; but this present governour neglected ? why , the people were taught to look at this , at an enemy to christ , &c. the same difference hath been observed in town lots , rates , and in neighbour meetings , and almost in all affairs , whereby it is apparent what disturbance the seditious application of mr. wheelwright hath wrought among us ; therefore as the apostle saith , i would they were cut off that trouble you ; and as cain , hagar and ishmael , were expressed as troublers of the families , ( which were then as common-wealths ) so justice requires , and the necessity of the peace calls for it , that such disturbers should be put out from amongst us , seeing it is one of their tenents , that it is not possible their opinions , and external peace , can stand together ; and that the difference between them and us is ( as they say ) as wide as between heaven and hell. further the court declared what means had been used , to convince him , and to reduce him into the right way , as first at the court , when he was convict of his offence , the ministers being called together , did labour by many sound arguments , both in publick and private , to convince him of his error and sin , but he contemptuously slighted whatsoever they or the magistrates said to him in that behalf ; and since that much pains had been taken with him , both by conference and writing , not only privately , but also by the late assembly of the churches , wherein his erroneous opinions , which were the ground-work of his seditious sermon were clearly confuted , and himself put to silence , yet he obstinately persisted in justification of his erroneous opinions ; and besides , there was an apology written in defence of the proceedings of the court against him , which though it were kept in for a time , in expectation of a remonstrance , which some of his party were in hand with , for justification of his sermon , yet it was long since published , and without question he hath seen it : besides , the court hath used much patience towards him from time to time , admonishing him of his danger , and waiting for his repentance , in stead whereof he hath threatned us with an appeal , and urged us to proceed : to this mr. wheelwright replyed , that he would , by the help of god , make good his doctrines , and frees them from all the arguments which had been brought against them in the late assembly , and denyed that he had seen the apology , but confessed that he might have seen it if he would . this was observed as an argument of the pride of his spirit , and wilful neglect of all the means of light in that he would not vouchsafe to read a very brief writing , and such as so much concerned him . although the cause was now ready for sentence , yet night being come , the court arose , and enjoyned him to appear the next morning . the next morning he appeared , but long after the hour appointed ; the court demanded what he had to alledge , why sentence should not proceed against him : he answered , that there was no sedition or contempt proved against him , and whereas he was charged to have set forth the magistrates and ministers , as enemies to christ , &c. he desir'd it might be shewed him in what page or leaf of his sermon , he had so said of them ; the court answer'd , that he who designs a man by such circumstances , as do note him out to common intendments , doth as much as if he named the party : when paul spake of those of the circumcision , it was as certain whom he meant , as if he named the iews ; when in bohemia they spake of differences between men , sub una & sub utraque , it was all one as to have said papists and protestants ; so of the monstrants and remonstrants : for by the means of him and his followers , all the people of god in this countrey were under the distinction of men , under the covenant of grace , and men under a covenant of works . mr. vvheelw . alledged a place in mat. ●… . where christ speaking against the scribes and pharisees , no advantage could they take against him , because he did not name them : but it was answer'd , they did not spare him for that cause , for then they would have taken their advantage at other times , when he did name them . one or two of the deputies spake in his defence , but it was to so little purpose ( being only more out of affection to the party , than true judgment of the state of the cause ) that the court had little regard of it . mr. vvheelwright being demanded if he had ought else to speak , said that there was a double fallacy in the charge laid upon him . . in that the troubles of the civil state were imputed to him , but as it was by accident , as it is usual in preaching of the gospel . . that it was not his sermon that was the cause of them , but the lord jesus christ. to which the court answer'd , that it was apparent he was the instrument of our troubles , he must prove them to be by such accident , and till then the blame must rest upon himself , for we know christ would not own them , being out of his way . after these and many other speeches had passed , the court declaring him guilty for troubling the civil peace , both for his seditious sermon , and for his corrupt and dangerous opinions , and for his contemptuous behaviour in divers courts formerly , and now obstinately maintaining and justifying his said errors and offences , and for that he refused to depart voluntarily from us , which the court had now offered him , and in a manner perswaded him unto ; seeing it was apparent unto him , from that of our saviour , matth. that we could not continue together without the ruine of the whole , he was sentenced to be disfranchised and banished our jurisdiction , and to be put in safe custody , except he should give sufficient security to depart before the end of march : upon this , he appealed to the king's majesty , but the court told him an appeal did not lie in this case , for the king having given us an authority by his grant under his great seal of england to hear and determine all causes without any reservation , we were not to admit of any such appeals for any such subordinate state , either in ireland , or scotland , or other places ; and if an appeal should lie in one case , it might be challenged in all , and then there would be no use of government among us , neither did an appeal lie from any court in any county or corporation in england , but if a party will remove his cause to any of the king 's higher courts , he must bring the king 's writ for it ; neither did he tender any appeal , nor call any witnesses , nor desired any act to be entred of it : then he was demanded if he would give security for his quiet departure ; which he refusing to do , he was committed to the custody of the marshal . the next morning he bethought himself better , and offered to give security , alledging that he did not conceive the day before , that a sentence of banishment was pronounced against him ; he also suffered to relinquish his appeal , and said he would accept of a simple banishment ; the court answer'd him , that for his appeal , he might do as he pleased , and for his departure , he should have the liberty the court had offered him , provided he should not preach in the mean time ; but that he would not yield unto ; so in the end the court gave him leave to go home , upon his promise , that if he were not departed out of this jurisdiction within fourteen days , he would render himself at the house of mr. stanton one of the magistrates , there to abide as a prisoner , till the court should dispose of him . mr. cogshall . the next who was called , was mr. iohn cogshall , one of the deacons of boston , upon his appearance the court declared that the cause why they had sent for him , was partly by occasion of his speeches and behaviour in this court the other day , and partly for some light miscarriages at other times , and that they did look at him , as one that had a principal hand in all our late disturbances of our publick peace . the first things we do charge you with , is your justifying a writing called a remonstrance or petition , but indeed a seditious libel , and that when mr. asp. was questioned by the court about it , you stood up uncalled , and justified the same , saying to this effect : that if the court meant to dismiss him for that it was best to make but one work of all , for though your self had not your hand to the petition , yet you did approve thereof , and your hand was to the protestation , which was to the same effect ; whereupon you being also dismissed , used clamorous and unbeseeming speeches , to the court at your departure , whereby we take you to be of the same mind with those who made the petition , and therefore liable to the same punishment ; upon this the petition was openly read , and liberty was granted to him to answer for himself . his first answer was , that what he then spake , he spake as a member of the court : to which it was answer'd again , that . he was no member of the court standing upon tryal whether to be allowed or rejected , at such a time as he uttered most of those speeches . . admit he were , yet it is no priviledge of a member to reproach or affront the whole court , it is licentiousness , and no liberty , when a man may speak what he list ; for he was reminded of some words he uttered at his going forth of the court , to this effect , that we had censured the truth of christ , and that it was the greatest stroak that ever was given to free-grace . to which he answer'd , that his words were mistaken ; for he said that he would pray that our eyes might be opened to see what we did , for he thought it the greatest stroak that ever was given to n. e. for he did believe that mr. wheelwright did hold forth the truth . he was further charged , that at the court , after the day of elections , he complained of injury , that the petition which was tendered , was not presently read before they went to election . to which being answer'd , that it was not then seasonable , and against the order of that day , but the court were then ready to hear it , if it were tendered ; whereupon he turned his back upon the court , and used menacing speeches to this effect . that since they could not be heard then , they would take another course . to which he answer'd ( confessing he spake over hastily at that time ) that his words were only these , then we must do what god shall direct us . he was further charged that he should say , that half the people that were in church-covenant in n. e. were under a covenant of works ; this he did not deny , but said , he proved it by the parable of the ten virgins , mat. . after these and many other speeches had passed between the court and himself ; by which it plainly appeared , that he had been a very busie instrument in occasioning of our publick disturbances , and his justifying of mr. wheelwrights sermon , and the petition or remonstrance being seditious writings , a motion was made for his banishment , but he pretended that there was nothing could be laid to his charge , but matter of different opinion , and that he knew not one example in scripture , that a man was banished for his judgment : it was answer'd , that if he had kept his judgment to himself , so as the publick peace had not been troubled or endangered by it , we should have left him to himself , for we do not challenge power over mens consciences , but when seditious speeches and practices discover such a corrupt conscience , it is our duty to use authority to reform both . but though a great part of the court did encline to a motion for his banishment ; yet because his speech and behaviour at present were more modest and submiss , than formerly they had been , and for that he excused his former intemperances by his much employment and publick businesses , it was thought fit to deliver him from that temptation , so he was only sentenced to be disfranchised , with admonition no more to occasion any disturbance of the publick peace , either by speech , or otherwise , upon pain of banishment and further censure . mr. aspin . the next who was called , was mr. william aspin , to whom the court said , that his case was in a manner the same with master cogshals , his hand was to the petition , he had justified master wheelwright's sermon , and had condemned the court , and therefore what could he say , why the court should not proceed to sentence ? for he had been present and heard what was said to master cogshall to have convinced him of his fault , and therefore it would be needless to repeat any thing . to this he answer'd , and confessed the petition , and that his heart was to it , as well as his hand ; and that that for which mr. wheelwright was censured , was for nothing but the truth of christ , and desired to know what we could lay to his charge therein . the court told him , that he being a member of this civil body , and going contrary to his relation and oath , to stop the course of justice in countenancing seditious persons and practices against the face of authority , this made him to be a seditious person . he answered , he did but prefer an humble petition , which he could not do , but he must intimate some cause why , and that mephibosheth in his petition did imply as much of davids unjust sentence against him as was in this petition . the court replyed that he was ill advised to bring that example for his justification which makes clearly against him , for mephibosheth doth not charge david with any injustice , not so much as by implication , but excuseth himself , and layeth all the blame upon his servant . then he alledged the petition of esther to abasuerus ; but neither would that serve his turn , for she petitioned for her life , &c. without charging the king with injustice . he still fled to this plea , that it is lawful for subjects to petition ; the court answered that this was no petition , but a seditious libel , the mis-naming of a thing doth not alter the nature of it : besides , they called it in the first place a remonstrance , which implies that they pretended interest , and is in the nature of it a plea , which challengeth a right of a party : besides , they give peremptory judgment in the cause , and that directly opposite to the judgment of the court ; the court declared mr. wheelwright guilty , they proclaim him innocent , the court judged his speech to be false and seditious , they affirmed it to be the truth of christ , and the very words of the holy ghost , which is apparently untrue , if not blasphemous . further in pretending their moderation , they put arguments in the peoples minds to invite them to violence , by bringing the example of peter drawing his sword , wherein they blame not his fact , but his rashness ; and that of the people rescuing ionathan , which to make the more effectual , they say that it was not seditious . lastly , it was great arrogance of any private man thus openly to advance his own judgment of the court , therefore it will appear to their posterity as a brand of infamy , upon these erroneous opinions , that those who maintained them were not censured for their judgment , but for seditious practices : he further pleaded , that no petition can be made in such a case , but something may be mistaken through misprision as trenching upon authority , the court answer'd , that if they had only petitioned the court to remit this censure , or had desired respite for further considerations , or leave to propound their doubts , there could have been no danger of being mistaken . besides there was no need of such haste in petitioning , seeing the sentence was not given , but deferring to the next court , master vvheelwright ●●j●…yned only to appear there . the court then being about to give s●…ntence , mast●… aspin desired the court to shew a rule in scripture for banishment ; the court answered as before , that hagar and ishmael were banished for disturbance : he replied that if a father give a ch●… a portion , and sent him forth , it was not b●…nishment : but it was answered , the scripture calls it a casting out , not a sending forth ; and one said further that he was a child worthy of such a portion . then the sentence of the court was for his dis-franchisemnnt and banishment , and time given him to the last of march upon security for his departure then , which he presently tendered , and so was dismissed . the court intended only to have dis-franchised him , as they had done mr. cogshall , but his behaviour was so contemptuous , and his speeches so peremptory , that occasioned a further aggravation , and it appeared afterward to be by an over-ruling hand of god , for the next day it was discovered , that he was the man that did frame the petition , and drew many to subscribe to it , and some had their names put to it without their knowledge , and in his first draught there were other passages so foul , as he was forced to put them out , and yet many had not subscribed , but upon his promise that it should not be delivered without advice of mr. cotton , which was never done . vvilliam baulston , and ed. hutchison . after these , two of the serjeants of boston were called , vvilliam baulston and ed hutchison , these both had their hands to the petition , and just●…fied the same ; vvill. baulston told the court , that he knew that if such a petition had been made in any other place in the world , there would have been no fault found with it . the other told the court , ( turning himself in a scornful manner ) that if they took away his estate , they must keep his wi●…e and children ; for which he was presently committed to the offi●…r . the court reasoned a good while with them both , but they were peremptory , and would acknowledge no failing , and because of their contemptuous sp●…eches , and for that they w●…re known to be very busie persons , and such as had offered contempt to the magistrates , for that they were not of their opinion , they were dis-franchised and fined , vvill baulston twenty pounds , ed. h●…tchison fourty pounds . the next morning ed. hutchison acknowledged his fault in his misbehaviour in the face of the court , and so was released of his imprisonment , but both were disabled from bearing any publick office. tho. marshal , dynely , and dier . rich. gridly . another day were called four more of the principal stirring men , who had subscribed to the petition , thomas marshal the ferry-man , who justified the petition so far , that he would not acknowledge any fault ; yet he answered more modestly th●…n the former , therefore he was not sined , but dis-franchised , and put out of his place . dynely , and dyer had little to say for themselves , but persisting in their justification , they were also dis-franchised : likewise rich. gridly , an honest poor man , but very apt to meddle in publick affairs , beyond his calling or skill , ( which indeed was the fault of them all , and of many others in the countrey ) mean condition , and weak parts , having nothing to say , but that he could find no fault , &c. was dis-franchised . mrs. hutchison . all these ( except mr. wheelwright ) were but young branches , sprung out of an old root , the court had now to do with the head of all this faction , ( dux faemina facti ) a woman had been the breeder and nourisher of all these distempers , one mistriss hutchison , the wife of mr. william hutchison of boston ( a very honest and peaceable man , of good estate ) and the daughter of mr. marvary , sometimes a preacher in lincolnshire , after of london , a woman of a haughty and fierce carriage , of a nimble wit and active spirit , and a very voluble tongue , more bold than a man , though in understanding and judgment , inferiour to many women . this woman had learned her skill in england , and had discovered some of her opinions in the ship , as she came over , which had caused some jealousie of her , which gave occasion of some delay of her admission , when she first desired fellowship with the church of boston , but she cunningly dissembled and coloured her opinions , as she soon got over that block , and was admitted into the church , then she began to go to work , and being a woman very helpful in the times of child-birth , and other occasions of ●…dily infirmities , and well furnished with means for those purposes , she easily insinuated her self into the affections of many , and the rather , because she was much inquisitive of them about their spiritual estates , and in discovering to them the danger they were in , by trusting to common gifts and graces , without any such witness of the spirit , as the scriptures holds out for a full evidence ; whereby many were convinced that they had gone on in a covenant of works , and were much humbled thereby , and brought to inquire more after the lord jesus christ , without whom all their gifts and graces , all their contributions , &c. would prove but legal , and would vanish : all this was well , and suited with the publick ministery , which went along in the same way , and all the faithful imbraced it , and blessed god for the good success that appeared from this discovery . but when she had thus prepared the way by such wholsome truths , then she begins to set forth her own stuff , and taught , that no sanctification was any evidence of a good estate , except their justification were first cleared up to them by the immediate witness of the spirit , and that to see any work of grace , ( either faith or repentance , &c. ) before this immediate witness , was a covenant of works : whereupon many good souls , that had been of long approved godliness , were brought to renounce all the work of grace in them , and to wait for this immediate revelation : then sprung up also that opinion of the in-dwelling of the person of the holy ghost , and of union with christ , and justification before faith , and a denying of any gifts or graces , or inherent qualifications , and that christ was all , did all , and that the soul remained always as a dead o●…gan : and other of those gross errours , which were condemned in the late assembly , and whereof divers had been quashed by the publick ministry ; but the main and bottom of all , which tended to quench all endeavour , and to bring to a dependance upon an immediate witness of the spirit , without sight of any gift or grace , this stuck fast , and prevailed so , as it began to be opposed , and she being questioned by some , who marvelled that such opinions should spread so fast , she made answer , that where-ever she came , they must and they should spread . and indeed it was a wonder upon what a sudden the whole church of boston ( some few excepted ) were become her new-converts , and infected with her opinions , and many also out of the church , and of other churches also , yea , many prophane persons became of her opinion , for it was a very easie , and acceptable way to heaven , to see nothing , to have nothing , but wait for christ to do all ; so that after she had thus prevailed , and had drawn some of eminent place and parts to her party ( whereof some profited so well , as in a few months they out-went their teacher ) then she kept open-house for all comers , and set up two lecture-days in the week , when they usually met at her house , threescore or fourscore persons ; the pretence was to repeat sermons , but when that was done , she would comment upon the doctrines , and interpret all passages at her pleasure , and expound dark places of scripture ; so as whatsoever the letter held forth ( for this was one of her tenents , that the whole scripture in the letter of it held forth nothing but a covenant of works ) she would be sure to make it serve her turn , for the confirming of her main principles , whereof this was another , that the darker our sanctification is , the clearer is our iustification ; and indeed most of her new tenents tended to slothfulness , and quench all endeavour in the creature : and now was there no speech so much in use , as of vilifying sanc●…ification , and all for advancing christ and free-grace ; and the whole pedegree of the covenant of works was set forth with all its complements , beginning at cain , if thou dost well , shalt thou not be accepted ? then it is explained and ratified at mount sinai , and delivered in the two tables , and after sprinkled with the blood of christ , exod. . and so carryed on in the letter of the scripture , till it be compleat , as the covenant of grace by the spirit , seals forgiveness of sins , one of the venters whereon christ begets children , &c. and in the end , wherefore is all this adoe , but that having a more cleanly way , to lay all that opposed her ( being near all the elders , and most of the faithful christians in this countrey ) under a covenant of works , she might with the more credit , disclose and advance her master-piece of immediate revela●…ons , under the fair pretence of the covenant of free-grace ? wherein she had not failed of her aim , to the utter subversion both of churches and civil state , if the most wise and merciful providence of the lord had not prevented it , by keeping so many of the magistrates , and elders , free from the infection : for upon the countenance which it took from some eminent persons , her opinions began to hold up their heads , in church assemblies , and in the court of justice , so as it was held a matter of offence to speak any thing against them in either assembly : thence sprang all that trouble to the pastour of boston , for his free and faithful speech in the court , though required and approved : thence took mr. wheelwright courage to inveigh in his sermon against men in a covenant of work ( as he placed them ) and to proclaim them all enemies to christ , scribes and pharisees , &c. whereas before he was wont to teach in a plain and gentle stile , and though he would sometimes glaunce upon these opinions , yet it was modestly and reservedly , not in such a peremptory and censorious manner , as he did then and after ; for they made full account the day had been theirs : but blessed be the lord , the snare is broken , and we are delivered ; and this woman , who was the root of all these troubles , stands now before the seat of justice , to be rooted out of her station , by the hand of authority guided by the finger of divine providence , as the sequel will shew . when she appeared , the court spake to her to this effect . mrs. hutchinson , you are called hither as one of those who have had a great share in the causes of our publick disturbances , partly by those erroneous opinions which you have broached and divulged amongst us , and maintaining them , partly by countenancing and incouraging such as have sowed seditions amongst us , partly by casting reproach upon the faithful ministers of this countrey , and upon their ministry , and so weaken their hands in the work of the lord , and raising prejudice against them , in the hearts of their people , and partly by maintaining weekly and publick meetings in your house , to the offence of all the countrey , and the detriment of many families , and still upholding the same , since such meetings were clearly condemned in the late general assembly . now the end of your sending for , is , that either upon sight of your errours , and other offences , you may be brought to acknowledge and reform the same , or otherwise that we may take such course with you , as you may trouble us no farther . we do desire therefore to know of you , whether you will justifie and maintain what is laid to your charge or not ? mistriss hutchinson . i am called here to answer to such things as are laid to my charge ; name one of them . court. have you countenanced , or will you justifie those seditious practises which have been censured here in this court ? hutch . do you ask me upon point of conscience ? court. no , your conscience you may keep to your self , but if in this cause you shall countenance and incourage these that thus transgress the law , you must be called in question for it , and that is not for your conscience , but for your practice . hutch . what law have they transgressed ; the law of god ? court. yes , the fifth commandment , which commands us to honour father and mother , which includes all in authority , but these seditious practices of theirs , have cast reproach and dishonour upon the fathers of the common-wealth . hutch . do i entertain , or maintain them in their actions , wherein they stand against any thing that god hath appointed ? court. yes , you have justified mr. wheelwright his sermon , for which you know he was convict of sedition , and you have likewise countenanced and encouraged those that had their hands to the petition . hutch . i deny it , i am to obey you onely in the lord. court. you cannot deny but you had your hand in the petition . hutch . put case i do fear the lord , and my parent do not , may not i entertain one that fears the lord , because my father will not let me ? i may put honour upon him as a child of god. court. that is nothing to the purpose , but we cannot stand to dispute causes with you now ; what say you to your weekly publick meetings ? can you show a warrant for them ? hutch . i will shew you how i took it up , there were such meetings in use before i came , and because i went to none of them , this was the special reason of my taking up this course , we began it but with five or six , and though it grew to more in future time , yet being tolerated at the first , i knew not why it might not continue . court. there were private meetings indeed , and are still in many places , of some few neighbours , but not so publick and frequent as yours , and are of use for increase of love , and mutual edification , but yours are of another nature , if they had been such as yours , they had been evil , and therefore no good warrant to justifie yours ; but answer by what authority or rule you uphold them . hutch . by tit. . where the elder women are to teach the younger . court. so we allow you to do , as the apostle there means , privately , and upon occasion , but that gives no warrant of such set meetings for that purpose ; and besides , you take upon you to teach many that are elder than your self , neither do you teach them that which the apostle commands , viz. to keep at home . hutch . will you please to give me a rule against it , and i will yield ? court. you must have a rule for it , or else you cannot do it in faith , yet you have a plain rule against it ; i permit not a woman to teach . hutch . that is meant of teaching men. court. if a man in distress of conscience , or other temptation , &c. should come and ask your counsel in private , might you not teach him ? hutch . yes . court. then it is clear , that it is not meant of teaching men , but of teaching in publick . hutch . it is said , i will pour out my spirit upon your daughters , and they shall prophesie , &c. if god give me a gift of prophesie , i may use it . court. first , the apostle applies that prophesie unto those extraordinary times , and the gifts of miracles and tongues , were common to many , as well as the gift of prophesie . secondly , in teaching your children , you exercise your gift of prophesie , and that within your calling . hutch . i teach not in a publick congregation ; the men of berea are commended for examining paul's doctrine : we do no more but read the notes of our teachers sermons , and then reason of them by searching the scriptures . court. you are gone from the nature of your meeting , to the kind of exercise , we will follow you in this , and shew you your offence in them , for you do not as the bereans , search the scriptures for their confirming in the truths delivered , but you open your teachers points , and declare his meaning , and correct wherein you think he hath failed , &c. and by this means you abase the honour and authority of the publick ministery , and advance your own gifts , as if he could not deliver his matter so clearly to the hearers capacity as your self . hutch . prove that , that any body doth that . court. yes , you are the woman of most note , and of best abilities , and if some other take upon them the like , it is by your teaching and example , but you shew not in all this , by what authority you take upon you to be such a publick instructer : ( after she had stood a short time , the court gave her leave to sit down , for her countenance discovered some bodily infirmity , ) hutch . here is my authority , aquila and priscilla , took upon them to instruct apollo more perfectly , yet he was a man of good parts , but they being better instructed , might teach him . court. see how your argument stan●… , priscilla with her husband took apollo home to instruct him privately , therefore mistriss hutchison , without her husband , might teach sixty or eighty . hutch . i call them not , but if they come to me , i may instruct them . court. yet you shew us not a rule . hutch . i have given you two places of scripture . court. but neither of them will suit y●…ur practice . hutch . must i shew my name written therein ? court. you must shew that which must be equivalent , seeing your ministery is publick , you would have them receive your instruction , as coming from such an ordinance . hutch . they must not take it as it comes from me , but as it comes from the lord jesus christ ; and if i took upon me a publick ministery , i should break a rule , but not in exercising a gift of prophesie , and i would see a rule to turn away them that come to me . court. it is your exercise which draws them , and by occasion thereof , many families are neglected , and much time lost , and a great damage comes to the common-wealth thereby , which we that are betrusted with , as the fathers of the common-wealth , are not to suffer . divers other speeches passed to and fro about this matter , the issue was , that not being able to bring any rule to justifie this her disordered course , she said she walked by the rule of the apostle , gal. which she called the rule of the new creature , but what rule that was , she would not , or she could not tell , neither would she consent to lay down her meetings , except authority did put them down , and then she might be subject to authority . then the court laid to her charge , the reproach she had cast upon the ministers , and ministry in this country , saying , that none of them did preach the covenant of free grace , but mr. cotton , and that they have not the seal of the spirit , and so were not able ministers of the new testament : she denied the words , but they were affirmed by divers of the ministers , being desired by the court to be present for that end . the matter was thus ; it being reported abroad , that mistriss hutchison did flight them and their ministery in their common talk , as if they did preach nothing but a covenant of works , because they pressed much for faith and love , &c. without holding forth such an immediate witness of the spirit as she pretended , they advised with master cotton about it , and a meeting was appointed at his house , and she being sent for , and demanded the reason why she had used such speeches , at first she would not acknowledge them ; but being told that they could prove them by witnesses , and perswaded to deal freely and truly therein , she said , that the fear of man was a snare , and therefore she was glad she had this opportunity to open her mind , and thereupon she told them , that there was a wide difference betwixt master cotton ' s ministery and theirs , and that they could not hold forth a covenant of free grace , because they had not the seal of the spirit , and that they were not able ministers of the new testament . it was near night , so the court brake up , and she was injoyned to appear again the next morning . when she appeared the next day , she objected , that the ministers had spoken in their own cause , and that they ought not to be informers and witnesses both , and required that they might be sworn to what they had spoken : to which the court answered , that if it were needful , an oath should be given them : but because the whole court ( in a manner man by man ) did declare themselves to be fully satisfied of the truth of their testimonies , they being or men of long approved godliness , and sincerity in their course , and for that it was also generally observed , that those of her party did look at their ministery ( for the most part ) as a way of the covenant of works , and one had been punished about half a year before , for reporting the like of them . the court did pause a while at it , whereupon she said , that she had mr. wilson ' s notes of that conference , which were otherwise than they had related : the court wi●…led her to shew them , but her answer was , she had left them at home : whereupon mr. wilson ( with the leave of the court ) said , that if she brought forth his notes , they should find written at the foot of them , that he had not written down all that was spoken , but being ofen interrupted , he had omitted divers passages ; then she appealed to mr. cotton , who being called , and desired to declare what he remembred of her speeches , said , that he remembred onely that which took impression on him , for he was much grieved that she should make such comparison between him and his brethren , but yet he took her meaning to be onely of a gradual difference , when she said , that they did not hold forth a covenant of free grace , as he did , for she likened them to christ's disciples , and their ministery , before his ascension , and before the holy ghost was come down upon them ; and when she was asked by some of them , why they could not preach a covenant of free-grace ? she made answer , because they had not the seal of the spirit : upon this the court wished her to consider , that mr. cotton did in a manner agree with the testimony of the rest of the elders : and as he remembred , onely so much as at present took most impression on him , so the rest of the elders had reason to remember some other passages , which he might not hear , or not so much observe as they whom it so nearly and properly concerned : all this would not satisfie mistriss hutchison , but she still called to have them sworn ; whereupon the court being weary of the clamour , and that all mouths might be stopped , required three of the ministers to take an oath , and thereupon they confirmed their former testimony . upon this she began to speak her mind , and to tell of the manner of god's dealing with her , and how he revealed himself to her , and made her know what she had to do : the governour perceiving whereabout she went , interrupted her , and would have kept her to the matter in hand , but seeing her very unwilling to be taken off , he permitted her to proceed . her speech was to this effect . mistriss hutchison . when i was in old england , i was much troubled at the constitution of the churches there , so far , as i was ready to have joyned to the separation , whereupon i set apart a day for humiliation by my self , to se●…k direction from god , and then did god discover unto me the unfaithfulness of the churches , and the danger of them , and that none of those ministers could preach the lord jesus aright , for he had brought to my mind , that in iohn . . every spirit that confesseth not , that iesus christ is come in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist ; i marvelled what this should mean , for i knew that neither protestants nor papists did deny that christ was come in the flesh ; and are the turks then the onely antichrists ? now i had none to open the scripture to me , but the lord , he must be the prophet , then he brought to my mind another scripture , he that denies the testament , denies the death of the testator ; from whence the lord did let me see , that every one that did not preach the new-covenant , denies the death of the testator : then it was revealed to me that the ministers of england were these antichrists , but i knew not how to bear this , i did in my heart rise up against it , then i begged of the lord that this atheism might not be in my heart : after i had begged this light , a twelve moneth together , at last he let me see how i did oppose christ jesus , and he revealed to me that place in esa. . , . and from thence shewed me the atheism of my own heart , and how i did turn in upon a covenant of works , and did oppose christ jesus ; from which time the lord did discover to me all sorts of ministers , and how they taught , and to know what voice i heard , which was the voice of moses , which of iohn baptist , and which of christ ; the voice of my beloved , from the voice of strangers ; and thenceforth i was the more careful whom i heard , for after our teacher mr. cotton , and my brother wheelwright were put down , there was none in england that i durst hear . then it pleased god to reveal himself to me in that of esa. . . though the lord give thee the bread of adversity , &c. yet thine eyes shall see thy teachers ; after this the lord carrying mr. cotton to new-england ( at which i was much troubled ) it was revealed to me , that i must go thither also , and that there i should be pers●…cuted , and suffer much trouble . i will give you another scripture , jer. . fear not iacob my servant , for i am with thee ; i will make a full end of all the nations , &c. then the lord did reveal himself to me , sitting upon a throne of justice , and all the world appearing before him , and though i must come to new england , yet i must not fear nor be dismaied . the lord brought another scripture to me , esa. . the lord spake this to me with a strong hand , and instructed me , that i should not walk in the way of this people , &c. i will give you one place more , which the lord brought to me by immediate revelations , and that doth concern you all ; it is in dan. . when the presidents and princes could find nothing against him , because he was faithful , they sought matter against him concerning the law of his god , to cast him into the lions den ; so it was revealed to me , that they should plot against me , but the lord bid me not to fear , for he that delivered daniel , and the three children , his hand was not shortened . and see this scripture fulfilled this day in mine eyes , therefore take heed what ye go about to do unto me , for you have no power over my body , neither can you do me any harm , for i am in the hands of the eternal jehovah my saviour , i am at his appointment , the bounds of my habitation are cast in heaven , no farther do i esteem of any mortal man , than creatures in his hand ; i fear none but the great jehovah , which hath foretold me of these things ; and i do verily believe that he will deliver me out of your hands , therefore take heed how you proceed against me ; for i know that for this you go about to do to me , god will ruin you and your posterity , and this whole state. when she had thus vented her mind , the court demanded of her , how she expected to be delivered , whether by miracle as daniel was ? to which she answered , yes , by miracle , as dainiel was : being farther demanded , how she did know that it was god that did reveal these things to her , and not satan ? she answered ; how did abraham know that it was the voice of god , when he commanded him to sacrifice his son ? mr. cotton being present , and desired by the court to deliver his judgment about mistriss hutchison her revelations , answered ; there be two sorts of revelations , some are without and besides scripture ; those i look at as satanical , and tending to much danger ; other are such as the apostle speaks of , ephes. . where he prayeth for a spirit of revelation to be given them , those are never dispensed but according to the word of god ; though the word revelation be uncouth , yet in scripture-sense i think it not lawful so to express it , and whenever it comes , it comes with the ministery of the word . being again desired to express himself particularly concerning her revelations , he demanded of her ( by the leave of the court ) whether by a miracle she doth mean a work beyond the power of nature , or onely above common providence ? for if ( as you say ) you expect deliverance from this court , beyond the power of nature , then i should suspect such a revelation to be false . to this she answered , you know when it comes , god doth not describe the way . mr. cotton asked her again , whether ( when she said she should be delivered ) she meant a deliverance from the sentence of the court , or from the calamity of it ? she answered , yea , from the calamity of it . mistriss hutchison having thus freely and fully discovered her self , the court and all the rest of the assembly ( except those of her own party ) did observe a special providence of god , that ( while she went about to cover such offences as were laid to her charge , by putting matters upon proof , and then quarrelling with the evidence ) her own mouth should deliver her into the power of the court , as guilty of that which all suspected her for , but were not furnished with proof sufficient to proceed against her ; for here she hath manifested , that her opinions and practice have been the cause of all our disturbances , and that she walked by such a rule as cannot stand with the peace of any state ; for such bottomless revelations , as either came without any word , or without the sense of the word , ( which was framed to humane capacity ) if they be allowed in one thing , must be admitted a rule in all things ; for they being above reason and scripture , they are not subject to control : again , she hath given a reason why she hath so much slighted the faithful ministers of christ here , why ? it was revealed to her long since in england , that all the pack of them were antichristians , so as she durst hear none of them , after mr. cotton and mr. wheelwright were once gone ; for they could not preach christ and the new-covenant ( as she affirms , ) why , but they did preach somewhat , and if they could not hold forth christ in a covenant of free-grace , then must they needs hold him forth in a covenant of works ; then are they not able ministers of the new testament , nor sealed by the spirit ; for the servants of god , who are come over into new england , do not think themselves more spiritual than other of their brethren whom they have left behind , nor that they can or do hold forth the lord jesus christ in their ministry , more truly than he was held forth in england , and seeing their ministery was a most precious sweet savour to all the saints before she came hither , it is easie to discern from what sink that ill vapour hath risen , which hath made so many of her seduced party to loath now the smell of those flowers which they were wont to find sweetness in : yet this is not all ( though it be too too vile ) she can fetch a revelation that shall reach the magistrates and the whole court , and the succeeding generations , and she hath scripture for it also ; daniel must be a type of mistriss hutchison , the lions den of the court of justice , and the presidents and princes of the reverend elders here , and all must sort to this conclusion , she must be delivered by miracle , and all we must be ruined ; see the impudent boldness of a proud dame , that athaliah-like makes havock of all that stand in the way of her ambitious spirit ; she had boasted before that her opinions must prevail , neither could she endure a stop in her way , as appeared once upon a slight occasion , when her reputation being a little touched upon mistake , yet so carried , as she could not get the party upon that advantage which she expected , she vented her impatience with so fierce speech and countenance , as one would hardly have guessed her to have been an antitype of daniel , but rather of the lions after they were let loose . the like appeared in her , when she could not have her will against her faithful pastor for his opposing her opinions , as she apprehended ; so as neither reason , nor scripture , nor the judgment and example of such as she reverenced , could appease her displeasure . so that the court did clearly discern , where the fountain was of all our distempers , and the tragedy of munster ( to such as had read it ) gave just occasion to fear the danger we were in , seeing ( by the judgment of luther writing of those troublous times ) we had not to do with so simple a devil , as managed that business , and therefore he had the less fear of him ; but satan seemed to have commission now to use his utmost cunning to undermine the kingdom of christ here ( as the same luther foretold , he would do , when he should enterprize any such innovation under the clear light of the gospel , ) so as the like hath not been known in former ages , that ever so many wise , sober , and well grounded christians , should so suddenly be seduced by the means of a woman , to stick so fast to her , even in some things wherein the whole current of scripture goeth against them , and that notwithstanding that her opinions and practice have been so gross in some particulars , as their knowledge and sincerity would not suffer them to approve , yet such interest hath she gotten in their hearts , as they seek cloaks to cover the nakedness of such deformities , as in the mean time they are ashamed to behold . the court saw now an inevitable necessity to rid her away , except we would be guilty , not onely of our own ruine , but also of the gospel : so in the end the sentence of banishment was pronounced against her , and she was committed to the marshal , till the court should dispose of her . another day , captain iohn underhill was sent for , and being charged with joyning in the said petition , acknowledged the same , professing that he could see no fault in it : being demanded a rule by which he might take so much upon him , as publickly to contradict the sentence of the court , &c. he alledged the example of ioab his rough speech to david , when he retired himself for absalom's death , and that david did not reprove him for it . to this the court answered . first , that ioab was then in the matters of his own calling , and being general of the army , had liberty , by his place , to give advice to the king in causes of that nature , but when he failed in the manner of his speech , therein he is not to be excused , and therefore not to be followed . secondly , ioab did not contradict or reprove any judicial sentence of the king , but onely an inordinate passion . thirdly , he was occasioned by an urgent necessity of the safety of the king and state. fourthly , that which he spake was in private , for the king had withdrawn himself . fifthly , it appears that david did take it as a great miscarriage , for he presently displaced him . again , in our cause , the captain was but a private man , and had no calling to deal in the affairs of the court , therefore no warrant from hence . he insisted much upon the liberty which all states do allow to military officers , for free speech , &c. and that himself had spoken sometimes as freely to count nassaw . but it was answered , we are not to look at what some do tolerate , but what is lawful , and there may be a reason of state , to connive at that disorder at some season , which may not with honour and safety be permitted at another . being farther demanded , how they came so many of them , to be so suddenly agreed in so weighty and doubtful a case ? he answered , that many of them being present when mr. wheelwright was convict of sedition , they were sore grieved at it , and suddenly rushing out of the court , a strange motion came into all their minds , so as they said ( in a manner altogether ) come let us petition ; and for his part , from that time to this , his conscience which then led him to it , will not suffer him to retract it . the court pittied him much , and were grieved at his obstinacy , that when all his arguments were taken away , he had no defence left , he would yet maintain a bad cause by the light of a deluded conscience ; and withal they took notice how these ungrounded revelations began to work , and what dangerous consequences were like to follow of them , when so many persons upon such a sudden motion had no scruple to enterprize such a seditious action , nor can be brought by any light of reason or scripture , to see their errour ; so the court ( when they saw no other remedy ) dis-franchised him , and discharged him of his place , but allowed him his quarters means . there were divers who were not present when that sudden motion , or revelation first set the petition on foot , but were drawn in after , who soon found their error , and did as freely acknowledge it , and desired to have their names put out of it , which was easily granted , and their offence , with a loving admonition , remitted . it had been observed a good time since , that some of the leaders of this faction ( by occasion of new disciples , being inquisitive about their tenents ) would let fall these answers , i have many things to tell you , but you cannot bear them now ; and there is a great light to break forth , if men do not resist it , and you shall see the bottom hereafter ; and one of them reproved the rest , telling them , that they had spoiled their cause , by being over hasty , and too open , &c. and now it began to appear , what their meaning were , for after mistriss hutchison had discovered the secret , by her speech in the court , then others opened their minds , and professedly maintained these enthusiasms as the oracles of god. and that such revelations as abraham had to kill his son , and as paul had in the ship , and when he was caught up into the third heaven , &c. were ordinary , so that mr. cotton took notice of the danger of them , and publickly confuted them in diverse sermons . among other like passages there was one that fell out at mr. wheelw . his farewel to those whom he used to preach unto at the mount. one of his own scholars told him openly , that he had preached antichristianism , and had set up a christ against a christ ; the same party maintained immediate revelations , without any word at all , saying , that the free promises were onely for those under the law , but we are to look for all our assurance by immediate revelation ; and that in the new testament there are no signs , no not our baptism , for the baptism of water is of no use to us when once we are baptized with the holy ghost : he said also , that a man might be adopted and not justified , and that every new creature is as a dead lump , not acting at all , but as christ acts in him ; and denyed all inherent righteousness ; and that the commandments were a dead letter . these things were so gross , as mr. wheelwright could not but contradict him ; yet he did it so tenderly , as might well discover his near agreement in the points , though his wisdom served him to be more reserved till a fitter season ; for that poor man being newly come on to the profession of religion , must needs learn those points of m●… . wheelw . or draw them as necessary consequents from some of his tenents : and it is frequently found to be an effect of all unsound and unsafe doctrines , that still the scholar goes a step farther than his teacher . so it hath proved in former times , luther , and no doubt many of those who did imbrace his errors , in the first edition of them , yet lived and died in the true faith of christ , but the succeeding generations ( inheriting those erroneous tenents , which they had drawn from their godly forefathers , but not their godliness ) proved hereticks and schismaticks to this day . so it hath been in the churches of rome , and others , and so we may justly fear in these churches in new-england , howsoever that many that now adhere to these familistical opinions , are indeed truly godly , and ( no doubt ) shall persevere so to the end , yet the next generation , which shall be trained up under such doctrines , will be in great danger to prove plain familists and schismaticks . this discovery of a new rule of practice by immediate revelations , and the consideration of such dangerous consequences , which have and might follow thereof , occasioned the court to disarm all such of that party , as had their hands to the petition , and some others , who had openly defended the same , except they should give satisfaction to the magistrates therein ; which some presently did , others made a great question about it , for bringing in their arms , but they were too weak to stand it out . thus it pleased the lord to hear the prayers of his afflicted people ( whose souls had wept in secret for the reproach that was cast upon the churches of the lord jesus in this countrey , by occasion of the divisions which were grown amongst us , through the vanity of some weak minds , which cannot seriously affect any thing long , except it be offered them under some renewed shape ) and by the care and endeavour of the wise and faithful ministers of the churches , assisted by the civil authority to discover this master-piece of the old-serpent , and to break the brood by scattering the leaders , under whose conduct he had prepared such ambushment , as in all reason would soon have driven christ and gospel out of new-england ( though to the ruine of the instruments themselves , as well as others ) and to the re-possessing of satan in his ancient kingdom ; it is the lord's work , and it is marvellous in our eyes . mr. wheel . is now gone to pascal , mistriss hutchison is confined in a private house , till the season of the year shall be fit for her departure , some of those whom god hath left to be most strongly deluded , are preparing to follow them , and we hope the lord will open the eyes of the rest , and perswade them to joyn again with their sometime dear and most beloved brethren , that peace and truth may again flourish in new-england , amen . after the court had thus proceeded , some of the churches dealt with such of their members as were found guilty of these erroneous and seditious practices , the church at roxbury ( after much pains and patience to reduce them ) excommunicated five or six ; and the church of boston , by the sollicitation of some of the elders of the other churches , proceeded against mistriss hutchison , the manner and issue whereof is set down in the next . at boston in new-england , upon the th day of octob. . the wife of one william dyer , sometimes a citizen and millener of london , a very proper and comely young woman , was delivered of a large woman child , it was still-born , about two months before her time , the child having life a few hours before the delivery , but so monstrous and mis-shapen , as the like hath scarce been heard of : it had no head , but a face , which stood so low upon the breast , as the ears ( which were like an apes ) grew upon the shoulders . the eyes stood far out , so did the mouth ; the nose was hooking upward , the breast and back was full of sharp prickles , like a thornback ; the navel and all the belly with the distinction of the sex , were , where the lower part of the back and hips should have been , and those back-parts were on the side the face stood . the arms and hands , with the thighs and legs , were as other childrens , but instead of toes , it had upon each foot three claws , with talons like a young fowl. upon the back , above the belly , it had two great holes , like mouths , and in each of them stuck out a piece of flesh. it had no forehead , but in the place thereof , above the eyes , four horns , whereof two were above an inch long , hard and sharp , the other two were somewhat shorter . many things were observable in the birth and discovery of this monster . . the father and mother were of the highest form of our refined familists , and very active in maintaining their party , and in reproaching some of the elders , and others , who did oppose those errors . . the midwife , one hawkins wife of st. ives , was notorious for familiarity with the devil , and now a prime familist . . this monster was concealed by three persons above five months . . the occasion of concealing it was very strange , for most of the women who were present at the womans travail , were suddenly taken with such a violent vomiting , and purging , without eating or drinking of any thing , as they were forced to go home ; others had their children taken with convulsions , ( which they had not before , nor since ) and so were sent for home , so as none were left at the time of the birth , but the midwife and two other , whereof one fell asleep . . at such time as the child died ( which was about two hours before the birth ) the bed wherein the mother lay , shook so violently , as all which were in the room perceived it . . the after-birth wherein the child was , had prickles on the inside like those on the childs brest . . the manner of the discovery was very strange also , for it was that very day mistriss hutchison was cast out of the church for her monstrous errours , and notorious falsehood ; for being commanded to depart the assembly , mistriss dyer accompanied her , which a stranger observing , asked another , what woman that was ? the other answered , it was the women who had the monster : which one of the church of boston hearing , enquired about it from one to another , and at length came to mistriss hutchison , with one of the elders of the church , to whom she revealed the truth of the thing in general onely ; this coming to the governours ear , he called another of the magistrates , and sent for the midwife , and ( in the presence of the elder , to whom mistriss hutchison had revealed it ) they examined her , who , at first , confessed , it was a monstrous birth , but concealed the horns and claws , and some other parts , till being straitly charged , and told it should be taken up , and viewed , then she confessed all : yet for farther assurance , the child was taken up , and though it were much corrupted , yet the horns and claws , and holes in the back , and some scales , &c. were found and seen of above a hundred persons . . the father of this monster , having been forth of the town about a month , and coming home just at this time , was upon the lord's day ( by an unexpected occasion ) called before the church for some of his monstrous opinions ; as that christ and the church together are the new creature ; there is no inherent righteousness in christians ; adam was not made after god's image , &c. which he openly maintained , yet with such shuffling , and equivocating , as he came under admonition , &c. a brief apology in defence of the general proceedings of the court , holden at boston the ninth day of the first moneth , . against mr. i. wheelwright a member there , by occasion of a sermon delivered there in the same congregation . forasmuch as some of the members of the court ( both of the magistrates and deputies ) did dissent from the major part , in the judgement of the cause of mr. wheelwright , and divers others have since censured the proceedings against him as unjust , or ( at best ) over hasty , for maintaining of which censures , many untruths are like to be spread abroad , whereby the most equal judges may be in danger of prejudice ; and so the honour not of the court only , but also of the trial and justice it self may be blemished : it is thought needful to make this publick declaration of all the proceedings , with the reasons and grounds thereof , so far as concerneth the clearing of the justice of the court. as for such passages as fell by occasion , and are too large to be here inserted , such as desire to know them , may receive satisfaction from three or four of boston ( being mr. wheelwright his special friends ) who took all by characters ( we doubt not ) will give a true report thereof ; as for such as have taken offence , that the cause was not first referred to the church , we desire them to consider these reasons . . this case was not matter of conscience , but of a civil nature , and therefore most proper for this court to take cognizance of , and the rather for the special contempt which had been offered to the court therein , and which the church could not judge of . . in some cases of religious nature , as manifest heresie , notorious blasphemy , &c. the civil power may proceed , ecclesia inconsulta , and that by the judgment of all the ministers . . it had been a vain thing to refer a cause to the judgment of those who had openly declared their prejudice therein , both in the court and otherwise , as by two petitions under the hands of most of them , delivered into the court on his behalf , did plainly appear . . the heat of contention and uncharitable censures which began to overspread the countrey , and that chiefly by occasion of that sermon , and the like miscarriages , did require that the civil power should speedily allay that heat , and bear witness against all seditious courses , tending to the overthrow of truth and peace amongst us , and this only by way of entrance to the matter which now followeth . in the beginning of the court , the deputies upon the fame of a sermon delivered by mr. wheelwright ( upon the first day ) which was supposed to tend to sedition , and disturbance of the publick peace , desired that he might be sent for , which the court ass●…nting unto , one of the magistrates ( his special friend ) undertook to give him notice thereof , and accordingly at the next meeting he was in the town . ready to appear , when he should be called for , which was not till two or three days after , and then he was sent for ( not by the marshal , as the usual manner is ; but ) by one of the deputies his intimate friend , upon his appearance he was made acquainted with the cause why he was sent for , viz. to satisfie the court about some passages in his sermon , which seemed to be offensive , and therewith a copy of it was produced , and he was demanded whether he would own it , whereupon he drew forth another copy which he delivered into the court , as a true copy , ( for the substance of it ) so he was dismissed very gently , and desired to be ready when he should be called for again . the next day he was again sent for by the former messenger : about this time a petition was delivered into the court , under the hands of above forty persons , being most of the church of boston , ( being none of the petitions before mentioned which were delivered after ) to this effect , that as free-men they might be admitted to be present in the court in causes of judicature , and that the court would declare whether they might proceed in cases of conscience , without referring them first to the church . to this the court answered on the backside of the petition , that they did conceive the petition was without just ground , for the first part of it , the court had never used any privacy in judicial proceedings , but in preparation thereto by way of examination of the party , &c. they might and would use their liberty , as they should see cause ; and for the other part of the petition , when any matter of conscience should come before them , they would advise what were fit to be done in it . when mr wheelwright came in , the court was private , and then they told him they had considered of his sermon , and were desirous to ask him some questions which might ●…nd to clear his meaning , about such passages therein as seemed offensive ; he demanded whether he were sent for as an innocent person , or as guilty ? it was answered neither , but as suspected only ; then he demanded who were his accusers ? it was answered , his sermon ; ( which was there in court ) being acknowledged by himself they might thereupon proceed , ex officio : at this word great exception was taken , as if the court intended the course of the high commission , &c. it was answered that the word ex officio was very safe and proper , signifying no more but the authority or duty of the court : and that there was no cause of offence , seeing th●… court did not examine him by any compulsory means , as by oath , imprisonment , or the like , but only desired him for better satisfaction to answer some questions , but he still refused , yet at last through perswasion of some of his friends , he seemed content ; the question then put to him was , whether before his sermon he did not know , that most of the ministers in this jurisdiction did teach that doctrine which he in his sermon called a covenant of works ; to this he said , he did not desire to answer , and thereupon some cryed out , that the court went about to ensnare him , and to make him to accuse himself ; and that this question was not about the matter of his sermon , &c. upon this he refused to answer any further , so he was dismissed till the afternoon ; the reason why the court demanded that question of him , was not to draw matter from himself whereupon to proceed against him , neither was there any need , for upon a conference of the ministers not long before there had been a large dispute between some of them and himself about that point of evidencing justification by sanctification ; so as the court might soon have convinced him by witnesses , if they had intended to proceed against him upon that ground . in the afternoon he was sent for again in the same manner as before , and the ministers also being in the town , and come hither to confer together for further discovery of the ground of the differences which were in the countrey about the covenant of grace , &c. they were desired to be present also at the court , to bear witness of the proceedings in the case , and to give their advice as the court ( upon occasion ) should require : so the doors being set open for all that would to come in ( and there was a great assembly ) and mr. wheelwright being willed to sit down by the ministers , his sermon was produced , and many passages thereof were read to him , which for the better understanding we have digested into this order following . he therein describeth two covenants , the covenant of grace , and the covenant of works ; the covenant of grace he described to be , when in the point of justification , and the knowledge of this our justification by faith , there is nothing revealed but christ jesus ; but if men think to be saved , because they see some works of sanctification in themselves , as hungring and thirsting , &c. this is a covenant of works ; if men have revealed to them some work of righteousness , as love to the brethren , &c. and hereupon come to be assured that they are in a good estate , this is not the assurance of faith , for faith hath christ revealed for the object , therefore if the assurance of a mans justification be by faith , as a work , it is not gospel . having thus described those who go under a covenant of works , he pronounceth them to be enemies to christ , to be antichrists , to be flesh opposed to spirit ; such as will certainly persecute those who hold forth the truth , and the ways of grace , he resembleth them to the philistines , who stop up with the earth of their own inventions , the wells of true believers ; he resembleth them also to herod , who would have killed christ so soon as he was born , and to herod and pilate who did kill christ when he came once to shew forth himself , and would have kept him eternally in the grave ; he further describeth them out of the second psalm , to be the people of god , as the iews were , and such as would take away the true christ , and put in false christs , to deceive if it were possible the very elect ; he also describeth them by that in cant. . . they make the children of grace , keepers of the vineyard , they make them travel under the burden of the covenant of works , which doth cause christ many times from them . he cometh after to an use of exhortation , wherein he stirreth up all those of his side to a spiritual combat , to prepare for battle , and come out and fight against the enemies of the lord ; ( those under a covenant of works ) he shews whom he meaneth thus to excite , alluding to david's valiant men , to baruch , deborah , iael , and all the men of israel , and bind them hereunto under the curse of meroz ; he further exhorteth them to stand upon their guard , &c. by alluding to the valiant men , who kept watch about the bed of solomon , a type of christ ; then he incourageth those of his side against such difficulties as might be objected ; as . if the enemies shall oppose the way of god , they must lay the more load upon them , and kill them with the word of the lord , and there he alludeth to those places which speak of giving the saints power over nations , binding kings in chains , and of threshing instruments with teeth , and foretels their flight by that in esa. . . they shall flee from the sword , &c. . though the enemies under a covenant of works be many and strong , ( as he confesseth they are ) yet they ought not to fear , for the battle is the lords , this he inforceth by that in iosh. . . one of you shall chase a thousand , and that of ionathan and his armour bearer . . against tenderness of heart which they might have towards such under a covenant of works , as are exceeding holy and strict in their way , he animateth his party by perswading them , that such are the greatest enemies to christ ; this he seeks to illustrate by resembling such in their zeal , to paul when he was a persecutor , and in their devotion to those who expelled paul and barnabas out of antioch . he taketh it for granted , that these holy men trust in their righteousness , and that it thrusteth out the righteousness of christ , and so concludes and foretels from ezek. . they shall die , and their righteousness is accursed , yet they transform themselves ( saith he ) into angels of light. . that his party might not fear lest he should break the rule of meekness , &c. he bringeth in the example of stephen , act. . . and the example of christ , ioh. . . and mat. . . . to those who might fear , lest this strife should cause a combustion in church and common-wealth , he answers and tells them plainly it will do so , but yet to uphold their hearts , he arms them with the prediction of christ , luk. . . and tells them that it is the desire of the saints , that that fire were kindled , and with that in esa. . . which he interprets of michael and the angels , and with that in mal. . . and by that in the revelation , the whore must be burnt . . he arms them against persecution , by exhorting them not to love their lives unto the death , but be willing to be killed like sheep , seeing it is impossible to hold forth the truth of god with external peace and quietness : this he inforceth by the example of sampson , who slew more at his death than in his life . these passages of his sermon being openly read master wheelwright did acknowledge and justifie the same , and being demanded ( either then or before ) whether by those under a covenant of works he did mean any of the ministers and other christians in those churches , he answer'd , that if he were shewed any that walked in such a way , as he had described to be a covenant of works , them he did mean. here divers speeches passed up and down , whereof there was no special notice taken , as not material to the purpose in hand . the court proceeded also to examine some witnesses about another sermon of his , whereat much offence had also been taken , and not without cause , ( as appeared to the court ) for in that he seemed to scare men , not only from legal righteousness , but even from faith and repentance , as if that also were a way of the covenant of works ; but this being matter of doctrine , the court passed it by for the present , only they ( and the ministers present , divers of them ) declared their grief to see such opinions risen in the countrey of so dangerous consequence , and so directly crossing the scope of the gospel , ( as was conceived ) and it was retorted upon him , which he in his sermon chargeth his adverse party with , ( tho' uncharitably and untruly ) when he saith they would take away the true christ , that to make good such a doctrine as he held forth ( to common intendment ) must needs call for a new christ , and a new gospel , for sure the old would not own or justifie it . then the court propounded a question to the ministers , which ( because they desired time of consideration to make answer unto ) was given them in writing upon the outside of master wheelwrights sermon in these words ; whether by that which you have heard concerning mr. wheelwrights sermon , and that which was witnessed concerning him , ye do conceive that the ministers in this country do walk in , and teach such a way of salvation , and evidencing thereof , as he describeth , and accounteth to be a covenant of works ? to this question ( being again called for into the court the next morning ) they returned an affirmative answer , in the very words of the question , adding withal , that they would not be understood , that their doctrine and master vvheelwrights about justification and salvation , and evidencing thereof , did differ in all things , but only in the point presented , and debated now in court , and that of this their answer they were ready to give reasons when the court should demand them , and that to this they consented , except their brother the teacher of boston : after this ( by leave of the court ) the ministers all spake one by one in order , some more largely , laying open by solid arguments , and notorious examples , the great dangers that the churches and civil state were fallen into , by the differences which were grown amongst us in matters of religion , offering themselves withal to imploy all their studies to effect a reconciliation , shewing also their desires that mr. vvheelwright would be with them , when they should meet for this purpose , and blaming his former strangeness as a possible occasion of these differences of judgment . others spake more briefly , but consented with the former ; and all of them ( as they had occasion to speak to mr. vvheelw . or to make mention of him ) used him with all humanity and respect ; what his carriage was towards them again , those who were present may judge , as they saw cause . the matters objected against mr. vvheel being recollected , and put to the vote , the opinion of the court was , that he had run into sedition and contempt of the civil authority , which accordingly was recorded to the same effect , and he was injoyned to appear at the next general court to abide their further sentence herein . and whereas motion was made of injoyning him silence in the mean time , the ministers were desired to deliver their advice what the court might do in such a case : their answer was , that they could not give a clear resolution of the question at the present , but for mr. vvheel . they desired that the court would rather refer him to the church of b. to deal with him for that matter ; which accordingly was done , and so he was dismissed : such of the magistrates and deputies , as had not concurred with the major part in the vote , ( some of them ) moved that the dissent might be recorded , ( but it was denyed ) as a course never used in this or any such court. afterward they tendered a protestation , which was also refused , because therein they had justifi'd mr. vvheel . as a faithful minister of the lord jesus , and condemned the court for undue proceeding ; but this was offered them , that if they would write down the words of the record , and subscribe their dissent , without laying such aspersion upon the court , it should be received . although the simple narration of these proceedings might be sufficient to justifie the court in what they have done , especially with these of this jurisdiction , who have taken notice of the passages in the general court in decem. last , yet for satisfaction of others to whom this case may be otherwise presented , by fame or misreport , we will set down some grounds and reasons thereof , some whereof were expressed in the court , and others ( tho' not publickly insisted upon , yet ) well conceived by some , as further motives to lead their judgments to do as they did . and , . it is to be observed , that the noted differences in point of religion in the churches here , are about the covenant of works , in opposition to the covenant of grace ; in clearing whereof much dispute hath been , whether sanctification be any evidence of justification . . that before mr. vvheel . came into this country ( which is not yet two years since ) there was no strife ( at least in publick observation ) about that point . . that he did know ( as himself confessed ) that divers of the ministers here were not of his judgment in those points , and that the publishing of them would cause disturbance in the country , and yet he would never confer with the ministers about them , that thereby he might have gained them to his opinion , ( if it had been the truth ) or at least have manifested some care of the publick peace , which he rather seemed to slight , when being demanded in the court a reason of such his failing , he answer'd that he ought not to consult with flesh and blood , about the publishing of that truth which he had received from god. . it was well known to him that the magistrates and deputies were very sensible of those differences , and studious of pacifying such minds as began to be warm and apt to contention about them , and for this end at the said court in december , ( where these differences and alienations of mind through rash censures , &c. were sadly complained of ) they had called in the ministers , and ( mr. wheel . being present ) had desired their advice for discovery of such dangers , as did threaten us hereby , and their help for preventing thereof ; and it was then thought needful , to appoint a solemn day of humiliation ( as for other occasions more remote , so especially ) for this which more nearly concerned us , and at this time this very point of evidencing justification by sanctification set into some debate , and mr. wheel . being present spake nothing , though he well discerned that the judgment of most of the magistrates and near all the ministers closed with the affirmative . . that upon the said fast ( mr. wheel . being desired by the church to exercise as a private brother , by way of prophecy ) when mr. cotton teaching in the afternoon out of isa. . . had shewed that it was not a fit work for a day of fast , to move strife and debate , to provoke to contention , &c. but by all means to labour pacification and reconciliation , and therein had bestowed much time , and many forcible arguments , yet mr. wheel . speaking after him , taught as is here before mentioned , wholly omitting those particular occasions which the court intended , nay rather reproving them , in teaching that the only cause of fasting , was the absence of christ , &c. and so notwithstanding the occasion of the day , mr. cottons example , the intent of the court for procuring peace , he stirred up the people to contention , and that with more than ordinary vehemency . now if any man will equally weigh the proceedings of the court and these observations together , we hope it will appear that mr. wheelwright was justly convicted of sedition and contempt of authority , and such as have not leisure or will to compare them together , may only read that which here followeth , and receive satisfaction thereby , carrying this along with them , that the acts of authority holding forth the face , and stamp of a divine sentence , should not be less regarded than the actions of any private brother , which a good man will view on all four sides before he judge them to be evil . sedition and contempt are laid to his charge . sedition doth properly signifie a going aside to make a party , and is rightly described by the poet , ( for it is lawful to fetch the meaning of words from human authority ) in magno populo cum saepe coorta est seditio saevitabque ; animis , &c. whence it it doth appear that when the minds of the people being assembled are kindled or made fierce upon some sudden occasion , so as they fall to take part one against another , this is sedition ; for when that furor , which doth arma ministrare , is once kindled , the sedition is begun , though it come not to its perfection , till faces & saxa volant : tully saith , seditionem esse dissensionem omnium inter se , cum ●…unt alii in aliud , when the people dissent in opinion and go several ways , isidore saith , seditiosus est , qui dissensionem animorum facit & discordias gignit . he that sets mens minds at difference , and begets strife : and if we look into the scripture , we shall find examples of sedition agreeing to these descriptions . the uprore mov'd by demetrius , act. . was sedition , yet he neither took up arms , nor perswaded others so to do , but only induced the minds of the people , and made them fierce against the apostles , by telling them they were enemies to diana of the ephesians . korah and his company moved a most dangerous sedition , yet they did not stir up the people to fight , only they went apart , and drew others to them against moses and aaron ; here was nothing but words , and that by a levite , who might speak by his place , but it cost more than words before it was pacified . now in our present case , did not mr. wheel . make sides when he proclaimed all to be under a covenant of works , who did not follow him ( step by step ) in his description of the covenant of grace ? did he not make himself a party on the other side , by often using these and the like words , we , us ? did he not labour to heat the minds of the people , and to make them fierce against those of that side , which he opposed ( and whereof he knew that most of the magistrates and ministers had declared themselves ) when with the greatest fervency of spirit and voice , he proclaims them antichrists , enemies , philistines , herod , pilate , persecuting jews , and stirred them up on his part to fight with them , to lay load on them , to burn them , to thresh them , and to bind them in chains and fetters , to kill them and vex their hearts , and that under the pain of the curse of meroz ? tantaene animis coelestibus irae ? would one think that any heavenly spirit could have breathed so much anger , when an angel would have given milder language to the devil himself ? and all this without vouchsafing one argument to convince these enemies of their evil way , or one word of admonition or advice to themselves , to draw them out of danger . but it is objected , that he expressed his meaning to be of a spiritual fighting and killing , &c. with the sword of the spirit only . it is granted he did so , yet his instances of illustration , or rather inforcement , were of another nature , as of moses killing the egyptian in defence of his brother ; sampson losing his life with the philistines , the fight of ionathan and his armour-bearer , and of davids worthies , baruc and iael , &c. these obtained their victories with swords and hammers , &c. and such are no spiritual weapons , so that if his intent were not to stir up to open force and arms ( neither do we suspect him of any such purpose , otherwise than by consequence ) yet his reading and experience might have told him , how dangerous it is to heat peoples affections against their opposites , a mind inflamed with indignation ( among some people ) would have been more apt to have drawn their swords by the authority of the examples he held forth for the incouragement , than to have been kept to spiritual weapons , by the restraining without cautions ; such as cannot dispute for christ with stephen , will be ready to draw their swords for him , like peter ; for furor arma ministrat , like him who when he could not by any sentence in the bible confute an heretick , could make use of the whole book to break his head ; we might hold forth instances more than enough . the wars in germany for these hundred years arose from dissentions in religion , and though in the beginning of the contention , they drew out onely the sword of the spirit , yet it was soon changed into a sword of steel ; so was it among the consederate cantons of helvetia , which were so many towns as nearly combined together , as ours here ; so was it also in the netherlands between the orthodox and the arminians ; so hath it been between the calvinists and lutherans : in every place we find that the contentions began first by disputations and sermons , and when the minds of the people were once set on fire by reproachful terms of incendiary spirits , they soon set to blows , and had always a tragical and bloody issue ; and to clear this objection , mr. wheel . professed before-hand , what he looked for , viz. that his doctrine would cause combustions even in the common-wealth , as well as in the churches , which he could not have feared if he had supposed ( as in charity he well might ) that those who were set over the people here in both states , were indeed true christians ; yea , he not only confesseth his expectation , but his earnest desire also of such combustions and disturbances , when he saith , that it is the saints desire to have the fire kindled , as if he were come among turks or papists , and not among the churches of christ , amongst whom paul laboured to quench all fire of contention , but with the corinthians , romans , and galatians , and wished that those were cut off who troubled them , setting a mark upon such as made division , and a note of a carnal mind : therefore this objection will not save him , his offence is yet without excuse , he did intend to trouble our peace , and he hath effected it ; therefore it was a contempt of that authority which required every man to study peace and truth , and therefore it was a seditious contempt , in that he stirred up others to joyn in the disturbance of that peace , which he was bound by solemn oath to preserve . but here he puts in a plea , that he did take the onely right way for peace , by holding out the lord jesus christ in the covenant of free grace , for without christ there is no peace , but get christ and we have all . to this we reply , first , we would demand of him what he accounts a holding forth a covenant of grace ? for , saving that he saith , this is a covenant of grace , that is a covenant of works , no man can discern any such thing by his proofs , for there is not any one argument in his sermon , to convince the judgment that so it is , and if we search the scripture , we find in the old testament , ier. . the covenant of grace to be this , i will write my law in their hearts , or , i will be their god , &c. and in the new testament we find , he that believes in the lord iesus christ , shall be saved , and that it is of faith , that it might be of grace ; but other covenant of grace than these , or to the same effect , are not in our bibles . again , tho' it be true , that get christ and we have all in some respect , yet we must remember him of what he said with the same breath , that truth and external peace cannot possibly stand together , how then would he have us believe , that such a holding forth christ should bring the desired peace ? this is some what like the jewish corban , i will give to god , and he shall help my parents ; or , as when a poor man stands in need of such relief , as i might give him , instead there of i pray to god to bless him , and tell him that the blessing of god maketh rich ; or , as i give a lawyer a fee to plead my cause , and to procure me justice , and when the day of hearing comes , he makes a long speech in commending the justice of the king , and perswading me to get his favour , because he is the fountain of justice ; this is to reprove the wisdom of god , by looking that the supreme and first cause should produce all effects , without the use of subordinate and nearer causes and means ; so a man should live out his full time by god's decree onely , without meat or medicine ; this plea therefore will not hold , let us hear another . it is objected , that the magistrates may not appoint a messenger of god , what he should teach : admit so much , yet he may limit him what he may not teach , if he forbid him to teach heresie or sedition , &c. he incurs as well a contempt in teaching that which he was forbidden , as sins in teaching that which is evil . besides , every truth is not seasonable at all times , christ tells his disciples , that he had many things to teach them , but they could not bear them then , joh. . . and god giveth his prophets the tongue of the learned , that they may know how to speak a word in season , isa. . . and if for every thing there be a season , then for every doctrine , eccles. . . the abolishing of the ceremonial law was a truth which the apostles were to teach , yet there was a season when paul did refrain it , acts . . and the same paul would not circumcise titus , though he did timothy , so the difference of persons and places , made a difference in the season of the doctrine : and if mr. wheelwright had looked upon the words which followed in the text , matth. . , . he might have learned , that such a sermon would as ill suit the season , as old bottles do new wine , and by that in esay before-mentioned , he might have had known the spirit of god doth teach his servants to discern of seasons , as well as of truths ; for if there be such a point in wisdom as men call discretion , sure religion ( which maketh truly wise ) doth not deprive the servants of god of the right use thereof . when paul was to deal with the sorcerer , who did oppose his doctrine , acts . he calls him the child of the devil , &c. but when he answered festus , ( who told him he was mad , and rejected his doctrine also ) he useth him gently , and with terms of honourable respect . tho' stephen calls the jews stiff-necked , and of uncircumcised hearts , &c , as knowing them to be malitious and obstinate enemies to christ , yet paul directs timothy ( being to deal with such as were not past hope , tho' they did oppose his doctrine for the present ) not to strive , but to use all gentleness , instructing them with meekness , &c. . tim. . the prophet elisha when he speaks to iehoram very roughly , as one not worthy to be looked at , yet he shews a different respect of iehosaphat , tho' he were then out of his way , and under a sin , for which he had been formerly reproved , king. . christ himself , tho' he sharply reproveth the pharisees , &c. yet he instructeth nicodemus gently , when he objected against his doctrine , and that somewhat rudely , ioh. . the apostles would not forbear to preach christ , tho' rulers forbad them . act. . yet another prophet forbare at another season at the command of king amasia , chron. . so we see that this plea of mr. vvheelwright is as weak as the former , and will not excuse him from contempt . if it be yet objected , that his sermon was not at all for contention , seeing he raised and pressed an use of brotherly love ; we grant he did so , but it was ejusdem farinae , a loaf of the same leaven with the other , for he applyeth it to those of his own party , to perswade them to hold together , and help one another against those of the other party , whom he setteth forth as their opposites , and encourageth them thereby by the example of moses , who in love to his brother killed the egyptian . a further objection hath been made against the proceedings of the court , as if mr. wheelwright had not a lawful tryal , as not being put upon a jury of freemen . but the answer to this is easie , it being well known to all such as have understanding of matters of this nature , that such courts as have power to make and abrogate laws , are tyed to no other orders , but their own , and to no other rule but truth and justice , and why thrice twelve men sitting , as judges in a court , should be more subject to partiality than twelve such called as a jury to the bar , let others judge . now if some shall gather from that which is here before mentioned , viz. that every truth is not seasonable at all times , if we shall grant that what master vvheelright delivered was truth , we must desire him to take only so much as we granted , viz. by way of supposition only ; for letting pass ( as we said ) such points as were meerly doctrinal , and not ripe for the court ( depending as yet in examination among the elders ) we may safely deny that those speeches were truths , which the court censured for contempt and sedition , for a brother may fall so far into disobedience to the gospel , as there may be cause to separate from him , and to put him to shame , and yet he is not to be accounted an enemy , thess. . therefore when mr. vvheelwright pronounced such ( taking them at the worst he could make them ) to be enemies , &c. it was not according to the truth of the gospel . again , to incense and heat mens minds against their brethren , before he had convinced or admonished them , as being in an estate of enmity , &c. is not to be termed any truth of the gospel ; so likewise to bring extraordinary examples for ordinary rules , as of iohn . . to incite his party to the like practise against such whose hearts they cannot judge of , as christ could of theirs to whom he spake , is as far from the rule prescribed to ordinary ministers , tim. . . and to all christians , gal. . . and iam. . . as that example of elijah ( by which the apostles would have called for fire from heaven upon the samaritans ) was different from the spirit whereof they were : so to resemble such among us , as profess their faith in christ only , &c. and are in church-fellowship , and walk inoffensively , submitting to all the lords ordinances in church and common-wealth , to resemble such to branded reprobates , and arch-enemies of christ , such as herod , &c. we suppose hath no warrant of truth . we might instance in other like passages , as his ordinary inciting to spiritual combats , by examples of bodily fight , and bloody victories , ( being very unsuitable ) but these may suffice to prove that all he spake was not true , and by this is the offence more aggravated , for if it were seditious only in the manner , it must needs be much worse , when the matter it self also was untrue . but if any shall yet pretend want of satisfaction , by all that hath been produced , ( for indeed it is beyond reason , how far prejudice hath prevailed to captivate some judgments , otherwise godly and wise ) and shall object further , that his doctrine , &c. were general , and so could not be intended of any particular persons , we desire such , first to remember what application mr. vvhe . made of the same in the open court , viz. that he did intend all such as walked in such a way . then again , let the c●…se be put in a reversed frame , some other had then taught , that all such as deny that sanctification ( as it is held by the other party ) is a good evidence of justification , and that say or have their assurance by faith , as a work of god in them , have it in the way of the gospel , that these were enemies to christ , &c. persecutors of the way of grace , &c. and should have stirred up others against them , with like arguments , and vehemency , as mr. vvheelwright did , there is no doubt but mr. vvheel . and others of his opinion , would soon have pointed out those who must necessarily have been intended by it ; for it is well known that some proper adjunct , or some noted circumstance may design a particular person or company , as well as names , so christ points out iudas by the sop , paul the jews , by those of the circumcision , and the antichrist , by that man of sin , &c. but we meet yet with another objection , viz. that disturbance of unity is not sedition , except it also lead to the hurt of utility . to this we answer , first , that if it tend immediately to such hurt ; we deny the truth of the proposition , ; for if in the time of famine , a man should stir up the people to fetch corn out of the houses of such as had it to spare , this were to an immediate publick good , yet it were sedition . if ieremy ( when he taught the jews , that they ought to set free their hebrew servants ) had also incited the servants to free themselves , this had not been free from sedition , yet it had not been against publick utility ; but they alledge the examples of iehojadah , who caused a disturbance , yet without sedition ; we answer , that case was very unlike to ours , for iehojadah being high priest , was also protector of the true king , and so chief governour of the civil state , and athaliah being a meet usurper , he did no other , then if a lawful king should assemble his subjects to apprehend a rebel ; and though a prince or governour may raise a party to suppress or withstand publick enemies , or other evils , yet it doth not follow , that a private man , or a minister of the gospel may do the like : we read , nehem. . . that he raised a great assembly against those who did oppress their brethren , but we read not that ezra did so , upon the disorders which he complained of , and yet that which he did , in assembling of the people , for redress , &c. was by authority and counsel of the nobles , ezr. . . . that this course of mr. wheelw . did tend directly to the great hinderance of publick utility : for when brethren shall look one at another as enemies and persecutors , &c. and when people shall look at their rulers and ministers as such , and as those who go about to take christ and salvation from them , how shall they join together in any publick service ? how shall they cohabit and trade together ? how hardly will they submit to such over-seers ? how will it hinder all affairs in courts , in towns , in families , in vessels at sea , &c. and what can more threaten the dissolution and ruine of church and common-wealth ? lastly , if it be alledged that such warlike terms are used by christ and his apostles in a spiritual sense , we deny it not , but we desire that the usual manner of their applying them may also be considered , for paul saith , cor. . so fight i , &c. i beat down my body , &c. tim. . . fight the good fight of faith , lay hold on eternal life , and pet. . . and iam. . . there is speech of the fight of our lusts , and ephes. . . he bids them put on armour , but it is to resist the devil , not flesh and blood , not to fight against their brethren , toward whom he forbids all bitterness and clamour , &c. ephes. . and when he speaks of spiritual weapons , cor. . he doth not draw them out against the persons of brethren , but against high thoughts and imaginations , &c. and if mr. wheelwright had found out any such among us , and planted his battery against them by sound arguments , he had followed our apostolick rule ; christ indeed threatneth to fight against the nicholaitans with the sword of his mouth , and if mr. wheelwright had known any such here , as certainly as christ knew those , he might have been justified by the example , otherwise not . therefore to conclude , seeing there be of those who dissent from mr. wheelwright his doctrines , who have denied themselves for the love of christ as far as he hath done , and will be ready , ( by god's grace ) to do and suffer for the sake of christ , and the honour of free-grace , as much as himself ; for such to be publickly defamed , and held forth as enemies to the lord jesus , and persecutors like herod and pilate , and the uncircumcised heathen , &c. cannot proceed from a charitable mind , nor doth it savour of an apostolick , gospel-like , brotherly spirit . mistriss hutchison being banished and confined , till the season of the year might be fit , and safe for her departure ; she thought it now needless to conceal her self any longer , neither would satan lose the opportunity of making choice of so fit an instrument , so long as any hope remained to attain his mischievous end in darkening the saving truth of the lord jesus , and disturbing the peace of his churches . therefore she began now to discover all her mind to such as came to her , so that her opinions came abroad , and began to take place among her old disciples , and now some of them raised up questions about the immortality of the soul , about the resurrection , about the morality of the sabbath , and divers others , which the elders finding to begin to appear in some of their churches , they took much pains ( both in publick and private ) to suppress ; and following the scent from one to another , the root of all was found to be in mistriss hutchison ; whereupon they resorted to her many times , labouring to convince her , but in vain ; yet they resorted to her still , to the end they might either reclaim her from her errors , or that they might bear witness against them if occasion were : for in a meeting of the magistrates and elders , about suppressing these new-sprung errors , the elders of boston had declared their readiness to deal with mistriss hutchison in a church-way , if they had sufficient testimony : for though she had maintained some of them sometimes before them , yet they thought it not so orderly to come in as witnesses ; whereupon other of the elders , and others , collecting what they had heard from her own mouth at several times , drew them into several heads , and sent them to the church of boston , whereupon the church ( with leave of the magistrates , because she was a prisoner ) sent for her to appear upon a lecture-day , being the th of the first moneth , and though she were at her ▪ own house in the town , yet she came not into the assembly till the sermon and prayer were ended , ( pretending bodily infirmity ) when she was come , one of the ruling elders called her forth before the assembly , ( which was very great from all the parts of the country ) and telling her the cause why the church had called her , read the several heads , which were as followeth . . that the souls of all men ( in regard of generation ) are mortal like the beasts , eccles. . . . that in regard of christ's purchase , they are immortal , so that christ hath purchased the souls of the wicked to eternal pain , and the souls of the elect to eternal peace . . those who are united to christ , have , in this life , new bodies , and two bodies , cor. . . she knows not how jesus christ should be united to these our fleshly bodies . . those who have union with christ , shall not rise with the same fleshly bodies , cor. . . . and that the resurrection mentioned there , and in ioh. . is not meant of the resurrection of the body , but of our union here and after this life . . that there are no created graces in the saints after their union with christ , but before there are , for christ takes them out of their hands into his own . . there are no created graces in the humane nature of christ , but he was only acted by the power of the god-head . . the image of god wherein adam was made , she could see no scripture to warrant that it consisted in holiness , but conceived it to be in that he was made like to christ's manhood . . she had no scripture to warrant that christ's manhood is now in heaven , but the body of christ is his church . . we are united to christ with the same union , that his humanity on earth was with the deity , ioh. . . . she conceived the disciples before christ his death were not converted , matth. . . . there is no evidence to be had of our good estate , either from absolute or conditional promises . . the law is no rule of life to a christian. . there is no kingdom of heaven in scripture , but only christ. . there is first engraffing into christ before union , from which a man might fall away . . the first thing god reveals to assure us is our election . . that abraham was not in a saving estate till the oh . of gen. when he offered isaac , and saving the firmness of god's election , he might have perished notwithstanding any work of grace that was wrought in him till then . . that union to christ is not by faith. . that all commands in the word are law , and are not a way of life , and the command of faith is a law , and therefore killeth ; she supposed it to be a law , from rom. . . . that there is no faith of god's elect but assurance , there is no faith of dependance but such as an hypocrite may have and fall away from , proved ioh. . for by that she said they are in christ , but christ is not in them . . that an hypocrite may have adam's righteousness and perish , and by that righteousness he is bound to the law , but in union with christ , christ comes into the man , and he retains the seed , and dieth , and then all manner of grace in himself , but all in christ. . there is no such thing as inherent righteousness . . we are not bound to the law , no not as a rule of life . . we are dead to all acts in spiritual things , and are onely acted by christ. . not being bound to the law , it is not transgression against the law to sin or break it , because our sins they are inward and spiritual , and so are exceeding sinful , and onely are against christ. . sanctification can be no evidence at all of our good estate . . that her particular revelations about future events are as infallible as any part of scripture , and that she is bound as much to believe them , as the scripture , for the same holy ghost is the author of them both . . that so far as a man is in union with christ , he can do no duties perfectly , and without the communion of the unregenerate part with the regenerate . . that such exhortations as these , to work out our salvation with fear , to make our calling and election sure , &c. are spoken onely to such , as are under a covenant of works . all which she did acknowledge she had spoken ( for a copy of them had been sent to her divers days before , and the witnesses hands subscribed , so as she saw it was in vain to deny them ) then she asked . by what rule such an elder could come to her pretending to desire light , and indeed to intrap her , to which the same elder answered , that he had been twice with her , and that he told her indeed at st. ives , that he had been troubled at some of her speeches in the court , wherein he did desire to see light for the ground and meaning of them ; but he professed in the presence of the lord , that he came not to intrap her , but in compassion to her soul , to help her out of those snares of the devil , wherein he saw she was intangled , and that before his departure from her , he did bear witness against her opinions , and against her spirit , and did leave it sadly upon her from the word of god : then presently she grew into passion against her pastor for his speech against her at the court , after the sentence was passed , which he gave a full answer unto , shewing his zeal against her errors , whereupon she asked for what error she had been banished , professing withal , that she held none of these things she was now charged with , before her imprisonment ; ( supposing that whatsoever should be found amiss , would be imputed to that ; but it was answered , as the truth was , that she was not put to durance , but onely a favourable confinement , so as all of her family , and divers others , resorted to her at their pleasure . ) but this allegation was then proved false , ( and at her next convention more fully ) for there were divers present , who did know she spake untruth . her answer being demanded to the first articles , she maintained her assertion , that the souls were mortal , &c. alledging the place in the eccles. cited in the article , and some other scriptures nothing to the purpose , she insisted much upon that in gen. . in the day thou eatest , &c. thou shalt die , she could not see how a soul could be immortally miserable , though it might be eternally miserable , neither could she distinguish between the soul and the life ; and though she were pressed by many scriptures and reasons alledged by the elders of the same , and other churches , so as she could not give any answer to them , yet she stood to her opinion , till at length a stranger being desired to speak to the point , and he opening to her the difference between the soul and the life , the first being a spiritual substance , and the other the union of that with the body ; she then confessed she saw more light than before , and so with some difficulty was brought to confess her errour in that point . wherein was to be observed , that though he spake to very good purpose , and so clearly convinced her as she could not gain-say , yet it was evident she was convinced before , but she could not give the honour of it to her own pastor or teacher , nor to any of the other elders , whom she had so much slighted . then they proceeded to the third , fourth , and fifth articles , about the body and the resurrection of the old , which she maintained according to the articles , and though she were not able to give any reasonable answer to the many places of the scripture , and other arguments which were brought to convince her , yet she still persisted in her error , giving froward speeches to some that spake to her ; as when one of the elders used this argument , that if the resurrection were onely our union with christ , then all that are united , are the children of the resurrection , and therefore are neither to marry , nor to give in marriage , and so by consequence , there ought to be community of women ; she told him , that he spake like the pharisees , who said , that christ had a devil , because that abraham was dead , and the prophets , and yet he had said , that those that eat his flesh , should never die , not taking the speech in the true meaning , so did he ( said she ) who brought that argument , for it is said there , they should be like the angels , &c. the elders of boston finding her thus obstinate , propounded to the church for an admonition to be given her , to which all the church consented , except two of her sons , who because they persisted to defend her , were under admonition also . mr. cotton gave the admonition , and first to her sons , laying it sadly upon them , that they would give such way to their natural affection , as for preserving her honour , they should make a breach upon the honour of christ , and upon their covenant with the church , and withal tear the very bowels of their soul , by hardning her in her sin : in this admonition to her , first , he remembred her of the good way she was in at her first coming , in helping to discover to divers , the false bottom they stood upon , in trusting to legal works without christ ; then he shewed her , how by falling into these gross and fundamental errors , she had lost the honour of her former service , and done more wrong to christ and his church , than formerly she had done good , and so laid her sin to her conscience with much zeal and solemnity ; he admonished her also of the height of spirit ; then he spake to the sisters of the church , and advised them to take heed of her opinions , and to with-hold all countenance and respects from her , lest they should harden her in her sin : so she was dismissed , and appointed to appear again that day sevennight . the court had ordered that she should return to roxbury again , but upon intimation that her spirit began to fall , she was permitted to remain at mr. cotton's house ( where davenport was also kept ) who before her next appearing , did both take much pains with her , and prevailed so far that she did acknowledge her error in all the articles ( except the last ) and accordingly she wrote down her answers to them all , when the day came , and she was called forth , and the articles read again to her , she delivered in her answers in writing , which were also read , and being then willing to speak to the congregation for their further satisfaction , she did acknowledge that she had greatly erred , and that god had left her to her self herein , because she had so much under-valued his ordinances , both in slighting the magistrates at the court , and also the elders of the church , and confessed that when she was at the court , she looked only at such failings as she apprehended in the magistrates proceedings , without having regard to the place they were in , and that the speeches she then used about her revelations were rash , and without ground , she desired the prayers of the church for her . thus far she went on well , and the assembly conceived hope of her repentance , but in her answers to the several articles , she gave no satisfaction , because in diverse of them she answered by circumlocutions , and seemed to lay all the faults in her expressions , which occasioned some of the elders to desire she might express her self more clearly , and for that ever she was demanded about the article , whether she were not , or had not been of that judgment , that there is no inherent righteousness in the saints , but those gifts and graces which are ascribed to them that are only in christ as the subject ? to which she answered , that she was never of that judgment , howsoever by her expressions she might seem to be so ; and this she affirmed with such confidence as bred great astonishment in many , who had known the contrary , and diverse alledged her own sayings and reasonings , both before her confinement and since , which did manifest to all that were present , that she knew that she spake untruth , for it was proved that she had alledged that in isaiah . by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justifie many ; which she had maintained to be meant of a knowledge in christ , and not in us ; so likewise that in galatians , i live by the faith of the son of god , which she said was the faith of christ , and not any faith inherent in us ; also , that she had maintained , that christ is our sanctification in the same sort that he is our justification , and that she had said , that she would not pray for grace , but for christ , and that ( when she had been pressed with diverse scriptures , which spake of washing and creating a new heart , and writing the law in the heart , &c. ) she had denyed , that they did mean any sanctification in us : there were diverse women also with whom she had dealt about the same point , who ( if their modesty had not restrained them ) would have born witness against her herein , ( as themselves after confessed ) wherefore the elders pressed her very earnestly to remember her self , and not to stand so obstinately to maintain so manifest an untruth , but she was deaf of that ear , and would not acknowledge that she had been at any time of that judgment , howsoever her expressions were ; then mr. cotton told the assembly , that whereas she had been formerly dealt with for matter of doctrine , he had ( according to the duty of his place being the teacher of that church ) proceeded against unto admonition , but now the case being altered , and she being in question for maintaining of untruth , which is matter of manners , he must leave the business to the pastor , mr. vvilson to go on with her , but withal declared his judgment in the case from that in rev. . that such as make and maintain a lye , ought to be cast out of the church ; and whereas two or three pleaded that she might first have a second admonition , according to that in titus . . he answered that that was only for such as erred in point of doctrine , but such as shall notoriously offend in matter of conversation , ought to be presently cast out , as he proved by ananias and saphira , and the incestuous corinthian ; ( and as appears by that of simon magus ) and for her own part tho' she heard this moved in her behalf , that she might have a further respite , yet she her self never desired it : so the pastor went on , and propounding it to the church , to know whether they were all agreed , that she should be cast out , and a full consent appearing ( after the usual manner ) by their silence , after a convenient pause he proceeded , and denounced the sentence of excommunication against her , and she was commanded to depart out of the assembly . in her going forth , one standing at the door , said , the lord sanctifie this unto you , to whom she made answer , the lord judgeth not as man judgeth , better to be cast out of the church than to deny christ. thus it hath pleased the lord to have compassion on his poor churches here , and to discover , this great impostor , an instrument of satan so fitted and trained to his service for interrupting the passage of his kingdom in this part of the world , and poysoning the churches here planted , as no story records the like of a woman , since that mentioned in the revelation ; it would make a large volume to lay down all passages , i will only observe some few , which were obvious to all that know her course . . her entrance . . her progress . . her downfal . . the foundation she laid , was ( or rather seemed to be ) christ and free-grace . . rule she pretended to walk by , was only the scripture . . the light to discern this rule , was only the holy ghost . . the persons she conversed with were ( for the most part ) christians in church-covenant . . her ordinary talk was about the things of the kingdom of god. . her usual conversation was in the way of righteousness and kindness . thus she entred and made up the first act of her course . . in her progress i observe , first , her success , she had in a short time insinuated her self into the hearts of much of the people ( yea of many of the most wise and godly ) who grew into so reverent an esteem of her godliness , and spiritual gifts , as they looked at her as a prophetess , raised up of god for some great work now at hand , as the calling of the jews , &c. so as she had more resort to her for counsel about matter of conscience , and clearing up mens spiritual estates , than any minister ( i might say all the elders ) in the country . secondly , pride and arrogancy of her spirit . . in framing a new way of conversation and evidencing thereof , carried along in the distinction between the covenant of works , which she would have no otherwise differenced , but by an immediate revelation of the spirit . . in despising all ( both elders and christians ) who went not her way , and laying them under a covenant of works . . in taking upon her infallibly to know the election of others , so as she would say , that if she had but one half hours talk with a man , she would tell whether he were elect or not . . her impatience of opposition , which appears in divers passages before . thirdly , her skill and cunning to devise . . in that she still pretended she was of mr. cottons judgment in all things . . in covering her errors by doubtful expressions . . in shadowing the true end , and abuse of her weekly meetings under the name of repeating mr. cottons sermons . in her method of practice to bring the conscience under a false terror , by working that an argument of a covenant of works , which no christian can have comfort without , viz. of sanctification , or qualifications , ( as she termed it . ) . in her confident profession of her own good estate , and the clearness and comfort of it , obtained in the same way of waiting for immediate revelation which she held out to others . . in her downfal there may be observed the lords faithfulness in honouring and justifying his own ordinances . . in that he made her to clear the justice of the court , by confessing the vanity of her revelations , &c. and her sin in despising his ministers . . in that the judgment and sentence of the church hath concurred with that of the court in her rejection , so that she is cast out of both as an unworthy member of either . . the justice of god in giving her up to those delusions , and to that impudency in venting and maintaining them , as should bring her under that censure which ( not long before ) she had indeavoured and expected to have brought upon some other , who opposed her proceedings . . that she who was in such esteem in the church for soundness of judgment and sincerity of heart ( but a few months before ) should now come under admonition for many foul and fundamental errors , and after be cast out for notorious lying . . that she who was wont to be so confident of her spiritual good estate , and ready ( undesired ) to hold it forth to others , ( being pressed now at her last appearance before the church to give some proof of it ) should be wholly silent in that matter . . whereas upon the sentence of the court against her , she boasted highly of her sufferings for christ , &c. it was noted by one of the elders ( who bare witness against her errors ) that the spirit of glory promised in pet. to those who suffer for well-doing , did not come upon her , but a spirit of delusion , and damnable . error , which as it had possessed her before , so it became more effectual and evident by her sufferings . . here is to be seen the presence of god in his ordinances , when they are faithfully attended according to his holy will , although not free from human infirmities : this american iesabel kept her strength and reputation , even among the people of god , till the hand of civil justice laid hold on her , and then she began evidently to decline , and the faithful to be freed from her forgeries ; and now in this last act , when she might have expected ( as most likely she did ) by her seeming repentance of her errors , and confessing her undervaluing of the ordinances of magistracy and ministry , to have redeemed her reputation in point of sincerity , and yet have made good all her former work , and kept open a back door to have returned to her vomit again , by her paraphrastical retractions , and denying any change in her judgment , yet such was the presence and blessing of god in his own ordinance , that this subtilty of satan was discovered to her utter shame and confusion , and to the setting at liberty of many godly hearts , that had been captivated by her to that day ; and that church which by her means was brought under much infamy , and near to dissolution , was hereby sweetly repaired , and a hopeful way of establishment , and her dissembled repentance clear detected , god giving her up since the sentence of excommunication , to that hardness of heart , as she is not affected with any remorse , but glories in it , and fears not the vengeance of god , which she lies under , as if god did work contrary to his own word , and loosed from heaven what his church had bound upon earth . finis . to the pope and all his magistrates and the protests here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope, signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty which will rise up in judgment against the popes and their emperours and his magistrates and most of the protestants, as here you may see in the reading of their declarations and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now, and the largeness of the heathens then, as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god : and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians then the christians, so called, are to one another : taken out of the ten persecutions. fox, george, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the pope and all his magistrates and the protests here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope, signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty which will rise up in judgment against the popes and their emperours and his magistrates and most of the protestants, as here you may see in the reading of their declarations and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now, and the largeness of the heathens then, as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god : and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians then the christians, so called, are to one another : taken out of the ten persecutions. fox, george, - . hadrian, emperor of rome, - . antoninus pius, emperor of rome, - . p. printed for thomas simmons, london : . at end: published by george fox. letters are attributed by fox to hadrian, antoninus pius, marcus aurelius, constantine, maximiam and sabinus. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- history. religious tolerance. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the pope and all his magistrates and the protestants , here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope , signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty , which will rise up in judgement against the popes and their emperours , and his magistrates , and most of the protestants , as here you may see in the reading of their declarations , and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now , and the largenesse of the heathens then , as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god , and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians , then the christians , so called , are one to another . taken out of the ten persecutions . london , printed for thomas simmons , at the sign of the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . the letter of adrian the emperor to minutius fundanus . i have received an epistle written unto me from serenus granius our right worthy and welbeloved whose office you do now execute ; therefore i think it not good to leave this matter without further advisement and circumspection to passe , least our subjects be molested , and malicious sycophants boldned and supported in their evil ; wherefore if the subjects of our provinces do bring forth any accusation before the judge against the christians , and can prove the thing they object against them , let them do the same and no more , and otherwise for the name onely , not to impeach them , nor to cry out against them ; for so , more convenient it is , that if any man will be an accuser , you to take the accusation quietly and judge upon the same ; therefore , if any shall accuse the christians , and complain of them as malefactors , doing contrary to the law , then give you judgment according to the quality of the crime ; but notwithstanding whosoever upon spight and maliciousnesse shall commence or cavil against them , see you correct and punish that man for his inordinate and malicious dealing . this was written above years before there was a pope , or universal bishop in rome . the epistle of antonius pius to the commons of asia . emperor and caesar , aurelius , antonius , augustus , arminius , pontifix maximus , tribune eleven times , consul thrice , unto the commons of asia , greeting , i am very certain that the gods have a care of this , that they which be such shall be known , and not lie hid , for they do punish them that will not worship them more than you , which so sore vex and trouble them , confirming thereby the opinion which they have conceived , and do conceive of you ; that is , to be wicked men , for this is their joy and desire , that when they are accused , rather they covet to dye for their god then to live , whereby they are victorers , and do overcome you , giving rather their lives then to be obedient to you , in doing that which you require of them ; and here it shall not be inconvenient to advertize you of the earthquakes which have and do happen among us , that when at the sight of them you tremble and are afraid , then confer your case with them , for they upon a sure confidence of their god , are bold and fearlesse , much more then you , who in all the time of this your ignorance , both do worship other gods , and neglect the religion of immortality , and such christians as worship him , them you do drive out and persecute them unto death ; of these and such like matters many presidents of our provinces did write to our father of famous memory heretofore , to whom he directed his answer again , willing them in no case to molest the christians , except they were found in some trespasse prejudicial against the empire of rome ; and to me also many there be , which write signifying their mind in like manner , to whom i have answered again to the same effect and manner as my father did ; wherefore if any hereafter shal offer any vexation or trouble to such , having no other cause , but onely for that they are such , let him that is impeached be released , and discharged free ; yea although he be found to be such ( that is a christian and let the accuser sustain the punishment , &c. this was written about years before there was a pope , on universal bishop in rome . marcus aurelius antonius , emperour to the senate and people of rome . i give you hereby to understand what i intend to do , as also what successe i have had in my wars in germany , and with how much difficulty i have victualled my camp , being compassed about with seventy and four fierce dragons , whom my scouts descried to be within nine miles of us , and pompeianus our lieutenant hath viewed , as he signified unto us by his letters ; wherefore i thought no lesse , but to be over-run , and all my bands of so great multitude , as well my vaward mainward , as rere-ward , with all my souldiers of ephrata , in whose host there were numbred of fighting men , nine hundred seventy and five thousand ; but when i saw my self not able to encounter with the enemie , i craved aid of our country gods , at whose hands i finding no comfort , and being driven of the enemy unto an exigent , i caused to be sent for those men which we call christians , who being mustered were found a good indifferent number , with whom i was in further rage then i had good cause , as afterwards i had experience , by their marvellous power , who forthwith did their endeavour , but without either weapons munition , armour , or trumpets , as men abhorring such preparations , and furniture , but onely satisfied in trust of their god , whom they carry about with them in their consciences ; it is therefore to be credited , although we call them wicked men , that they worship god in their hearts , for they falling prostrate upon the ground , prayed not onely for me , but for the host also which was with me , beseeching their god for help , in that our extremity of victuals and fresh water , for we had been now five dayes without water , and were in our enemies land , even in the midst of germany , who thus falling upon their faces made their prayer to a god unknown of me ; and there fell amongst us from heaven a most pleasant & cold showr , but amongst our enemies a great storm of hail mixt with lightning , so that immediately we perceived the invincible hand of the most mighty god to be with us ; therefore we gave those men leave to professe christianity , least perhaps by their prayer we be punished with the like , and thereby make my self the author of such hurt as shall be received by the christian profession ; and if any shall apprehend one that is a christian onely for that cause , i will that he being apprehended , without punishment , may have leave to confesse the same , so that there be no other cause objected against him , more then that he is a christian , but let his accuser be burned alive , neither will i that he confessing , and being found a christian , shall be inforced to alter the same his opinion by the governor of any of our provinces , but left to his own choice ; and this decree of mine i will to be ratified in the senate house , and command the same publiquely to be proclaimed and read in the court of trajanus ; and that further from thence it may be sent in all our provinces by the diligence of varatious governour of our city of polione ; and further we give leave to all men to use and write out this our decree , taking the same out of our copy , publiquely in the common hall set forth . this was written about years before there was a pope , or universal bishop . emperour and caesar publius licinius galienus pius fortunatus augustus , unto dionysius to pina , and to demetrian , and to all other the like bishops , the bountiful benignity of my gift . i have willed and commanded to be proclaimed through the whole world , to the intent that such which are detained in banishment for discipline sake may safely return home again from whence they came , and for the same cause i have here sent to you the example of my rescript , for you to peruse and to enjoy , so that no man be so hardly to vex or molest you , and this which you may now lawfully enjoy hath been long since by me granted , and therefore for your more warrant in the same , i have committed the exemplar hereof to the custody of aurelianus cirenius my chief steward , where you may fet the copy to see at your pleasure . this was written in the behalf of the christians about . years before there was a pope in rome . the copy of an epistle of constantinus sent to his subjects inhabiting in the east . victor constantinus maximus augustus , to our loving subjects inhabiting throughout the east parts sendeth greeting . the thing it self which in the sure and most firm law of nature is contained , doth give unto all men ( even as god hath ordained the same ) sufficient perseverance and understanding , both of such things as man ought to foresee , as also what things presently he ought to meditate , neither is there any thing therein to be doubted , of such which have their minds directed to the scope or work of perfect understanding ; so that the perfect comprehending of sound reason , and the perseverance thereof , be compared with the knowledge of god , being the true and perfect virtue ; whereof let no wise man be troubled , although be sees divers men of divers dispositions ; for wisdom which springeth of virtue , cannot abide or acquaint her self with fond idiots , unlesse that ( on the other side ) the malice of perverse litherness prolong her daies , and cause the same idiocy to survive ; wherefore assuredly the crown and price of virtue lyeth open unto all men , and the most mighty god ordereth the judgement of the same : i undoubtedly ( as manifestly as possible is ) will endeavour my self to testifie and confess unto you , all the hope which is in me ; i think verily that the emperours which before this time have lately been , even for their tiranny had the empire taken from them , and my father onely exercising and used all meekness and lenity in his affairs , calling upon god the father with great devotion and humility , hath been exalted to the same , and all the rest as men wanting their wits , and in comparison as savige beasts , rather did give themselves to like cruelty , then unto any lenity and gentleness towards their subjects , in which tiranny every one for his time being nosuled , utterly subverted the true and unfallible doctrine , and so great malice was there kindled in their breasts , that when all things were in peaceable tranquality , they made and raised most cruel and bloody intestine or civil warrs ; it is credibly informed us , that in those dayes apollo gave answers , but not by any mans mouth , but out of a certain cave and dark place , ( saying ) that he was much disquietted by those that were the just men and livers upon the earth , so that he could or would not for them declare a truth of such things as others demanded , and hereby it came to passe that such false divinations were given from the golden tables in apollo's temple , and in this thing did his prophetical priest complain of , when he took up again the hair of his head that others had contemptuously cast down ? and that the neglecting of his divination was the cause of so many evils amongst men ; but let us see what was the end hereof ; we now boldly and without all fear invocate and worship the omnipotent god. when i was a child i heard that he which then was chief emperour of rome , unhappy , yea most unhappy man , being seduced and brought into errour by his souldiers , curiously enquired who were those just men upon the earth that apollo meant , and one of his priests which was near about him , made answer that they were the christians ; this answer hereupon unto him being as delectable as honey unto the mouth , drew the sword given unto him to be revenged upon evil doers and malefactors , against the professors of the irreprehensible sanctimony and religion , and straightway he gave forth a commission ( to bloudy homicides as i may well call them ) and gave commandment to all the judges , that they should endeavour themselves with all the cunning they had , to the devising of more grievous and sharper punishment against the poor christians ; then , then i say , a man might have seen how greatly the honest professors of that religion were molested with cruelty , and daily suffered no small injuries and contumelies , and that also they suffered and sustained the same with such temperance , as though they had had no injuries done unto them at all , which temperance and patience of theirs was the cause why the furious citizens were the more mad and raging against them ; what fires , what tortures , what kind of torments were there , but they without respect either of age or sex were inforced to feel ? then did the earth without doubt her self bewail her children , and the round world which containeth all things , being sprinkled and imbrued with their bloud , made doleful lamentation for them , and the day it self provoked for to mourn was made amazed for them , but what is this to purpose ? now the very barbarous nations rejoyce for their sakes , which received and harboured them when they were afraid and fled from us , keeping them as it were in most loving and amiable captivity , and they saved not onely their lives , but also were a defence for their religion ; and now also the roman nation remembreth , and hath before their eyes this blame and spot , which the christians that were of that time worthily gave unto them , when they by them were banished ( as unfit members of their common wealth ) amongst the barbarous people ; what needeth to make further rehearsal of the mourning lamentation which the heathen people themselves throughout all the world made for the pitiful murder and slaughter of them ? after that it came to passe , that they which were authors of all these mischiefs died also , and were committed for their reward to the most filthy and horrible dungeon of hell , they being so intangled with intestine and civil wars , left alive neither name nor kinsman of their own , which thing undoubtedly had not chanced , unlesse the wicked devinations of apollo's oracles had deceived and bewitched them ; to thee therefore now i pray , oh most mighty god , that thou wilt vouchsafe to be merciful , and pardon all the east parts , and inhabitants of the same , being oppressed with calamity , and that by me thy servant thou wilt of thy goodnesse help and relieve the same ; and these things rashly crave i not at thy hands , oh lord most mighty , and holiest god of all , for i being perswaded by the onely oracles , have both begun and also finished wholesom and profitable things ; and further , by the bearing and shewing of thine ensign , have overcome a mighty and strong host , and when any necessity of the common-weal ( to my charge committed ) requireth thereunto ( following those signs and tokens of thy vertues ) i boldly go forth and fight against mine enemies ; and for this cause have i sacrificed my-soul unto thee , purified and cleansed both with thy love and fear ; yea truly , thy name do i sincerely love , and thy power do i reverence , which by many tokens and wonders hath shewed and confirmed thereby my belief and faith ; therefore will i do my endeavour , and bend my self thereunto , that i may re-edifie thy most holy house , which those wicked and ungodly emperors , have with so great ruine laid waste ; thy people do i desire to bring and establish in firm peace and tranquillity , and that for the publick utility of all the inhabitants of the earth , those which yet erre , and are out of the way , enjoy the benefit of peace and quietnesse with and amongst the number of the faithful sort , for i trust the restitution of the like society and participation may be a means to bring them also that erre into the perfect way of verity ; let no man therefore be grievous one unto another , but whatever man thinketh best , that let him do , for such as are wise ought throughly to be perswaded , that they onely mean to live holily , and as they should do , whom the spirit of god moveth to take their delight and recreation in reading his holy will ; and if others wilfully will go out of the way , cleaving to the synagogues of false doctrîne , they may at their own peril ; as for us we have the most worthy house , or congregation of gods verity , which he according to his own goodnesse and nature hath given us ; and this also we wish unto them , that with like participation and common consent , they may feel with us the same delectation of mind ; for this our religion is neither new nor newly invented , but is as old as we believe the creation of the world to be , and which god hath commanded to be celebrated with such worship as both seemed and pleased him ; but all living men are lyars , and are deceived with divers and sundry delusions ; thou o god for christ thy sons sake , suffer not this wickednesse again to root , thou hast set up a clear and burning light , that thereby as many as thou hast chosen may come unto thee , these thy miracles approved the same , it is thy power that keepeth us in innocency and fidelity , the sun and the moon run their appointed course , neither yet in ranging wise wander the stars to what place of the world they list themselves , the dayes , years , months and times keep their appointed turns , the earth abideth firm and unremovable at thy word , and the wind at the time ( by thee directed ) stormeth and bloweth , the streaming watering flouds ebb in time according as they flow , the raging sea abideth within her bounds and limits , and for that the ocean sea stretcheth out her self in equal length and breadth with the whole earth , this must needs be wrought with some marvellous workmanship of thine own hand , which thing unlesse it were at thy will made and disposed , without all doubt so great difference and partition between would ere this time have brought utter ruine and destruction both to the life of man , as to all that belongeth to man beside , which for that they have such great and huge conflicts amongst themselves , as also the invisible spirits have ; we give thee thanks o lord most mighty , god of all gods , that all mankind hath not been destroyed thereby ; surely even as greatly as thy benignity and gentleness is manifested by divers and sundry benefits bestowed upon us , so much also is the same set forth and declared in the discipline of thy eternal word to those that be heavenly wise , and apply themselves to the attainment of sincere and true vertue ; but if any such there be that little regard , or have but small respect unto the consideration thereof , let them not blame or lay a fault in others that do the same ; for that physick whereby health is obtained , is manifestly offered unto all men ; now therefore let no man go about to subvert that which experience it self doth shew ( of necessity ) to be pure and good ; let us therefore altogether use the participation of this benefit bestowed upon us , that is to say , the benefit of peace and tranquillity , setting apart all controversie , and let no man hurt or be prejudicial to his fellow for that thing wherein he thinketh himself to have done well , if by that which any man knoweth and hath experience of , he thinketh he may profit his neighbour , let him do the same , if not let him give over , and remit it till another time , for there is a great diversity betwixt the willing and the voluntary embracing of religion , and that when a man is thereunto informed , & counseled ; of these things have i made a more large discourse , than indeed the scope & mediocrity requireth , especially because i would not have my faith ( touching the verity ) to be hid , for that i hear there be some which complain the old accustomed haunting of their temples , and that the power of such darknesse is cut off and taken away , which thing surely i would take in better part , were it not that the violent rebellion of flagitious errour were so fixed in many mens hearts , whereby they thirst after the utter subversion of the common-weal and empire . this was written about years before there was a pope , or universal bishop in rome . the copy of the emperial constitution of constantinus , and licinius , for the establishing of the free worshipping of god after the christian religion . not long agone we weighing with our selves , that the liberty and freedom of religion , ought not in any case to be prohibited , but that free leave ought to be given to every man to do therein , according to his will and mind ; we have given commandment to all men to qualifie matters of religion as they themselves thought good , and that also the christians should keep the opinions and faith of their religion ; but because that many and sundry opinions by the same our first licence spring and increase through such liberty granted , we thought good manifestly to add thereunto , and make plain such things whereby perchance some of them in time to come may from such their observance be let or hindred ; when therefore by prosperous successe , i constantinus augustus ; and i linicius augustus came to mediliolanum , and there sat in council upon such things as served for the utility and profit of the common-weal , these things amongst others we thought would be beneficial to all men , yea and before all other things we purposed to establish those things wherein the true reverence and worship of god is comprehended , that is , to give unto the christians free choice to follow what religion they think good , and whereby the same sincerity and celestial grace , which is in every place received , may also be embraced and accepted of all our loving subjects ; according therefore unto this our pleasure upon good advisement and sound judgement , we have decreed , that no man so hardy be denied to chuse and follow the christian observance or religion , but that this liberty be given to every man , that he may apply his mind to what religion he thinketh meet himself , whereby god may perform upon us all his accustomed care and goodnesse ; to the intent therefore you might know that this is our pleasure , we thought it necessary this to write unto you , whereby all such errors and opinions being removed , which in our former letters being sent unto you in the behalf of the christians are contained , and which seem very undescreet and contrary to our clemency may be made frustrate and annihilate ; now therefore firmly and freely we will and command , that every man have a free liberty to observe the christian religion , and that without any grief or molestation he may be suffered to do the same . these things have we thought good to signifie unto you by as plain words as we may , that we have given to the christians , free and absolute power to keep and use their religion ; and for so much as this liberty is absolutely given of us unto them , to use and exercise their former observance , if any be disposed , it is manifest that the same helpeth much to establish the publique tranquillity of our time , every man to have license and liberty to use and chuse what kind of worshipping he list himself ; and this is done of us onely for the intent that we would have no man to be enforced to one religion more than another ; and this thing also amongst others we have provided for the christians , that they may have again the possession of such places in which heretofore they have been accustomed to make their assemblies ; so that if any have bought or purchased the same either of us or of any other , the same places without either money or other recompence forthwith and without delay we will to be restored again unto the said christians ; and if any man have obtained the same by gift from us , and shall require any recompence to be made to them in that behalf , then let the christians repair to the president , being the judge appointed for that place , that consideration may be had of those men by our benignity ; all which things we will and command that you see to be given and restored freely , and with diligence unto the society of the christians , all delay set apart ; and because the christians themselves are understood to have had not only those places wherein they were accustomed to resort together , but certain other peculiar places also , not being private to any one man , but belonging to the right of their congregation and society ; you shall see also all those to be restored unto the christians , that is to say , to every fellowship and company of them , according to the decree whereof we have made mention , all delay set apart ; provided that the order we have taken in the mean time be observed , that if any , taking no recompence , shall restore the same lands and possessions , they shall not mistrust , but be sure to be saved harmlesse by us . in all these things it shall be your part to employ your diligence in the behalf of the foresaid company of christians , wherby this our commandment may speedily be accomplished , and also in this case by our clemency the common and publick peace may be preserved ; for undoubtedly by this means , as before we have said , the good will and favour of god towards us ( whereof in many cases we have had good experience ) shall alwayes continue with us ; and to the intent that this our constitution may be notified to all men , it shall be requisite that the copy of these our letters be set up in all places , that men may read and know the same , least any should be ignorant thereof . this was written about years before there was a pope or universal bishop at rome . maximinus the emperor in the behalf of the christians . amongst other things , which for the benefit and commodity of the common-wealth we established , we commanded to reform all things according to the ancient laws and publique discipline of the romans ; and also to use this policy , that the christians , which had forsaken the religion of their forefathers , should be brought again to the right way , for such phantastical singularity was amongst them , that those things which their elders had received and allowed , they rejected and disallowed , devising every man such laws as they thought good , and observed the same , assembling in divers places great multitudes of people ; therefore when our foresaid decree was proclaimed , many there were that felt the penalty thereof , and many being troubled therefore suffered many kinds of death ; and because we see yet that there be many which persevere in the same which neither give due worship unto the celestal gods , neither receive the god of the christians , we having respect to our accustomed benignity , wherewith we are wont to shew favour unto all men , think good in this case also to extend our clemency , that the christians may be again tolerated , and appoint them places where again they may meet together , so that they do nothing contrary to publick order and discipline ; by another epistle we mean to prescribe unto the judges , what shall be convenient for them to do ; wherefore according as this our bountiful clemency deserveth , let them make intercession to god for our health , common-weal , and for themselves , that in all places the state of the common-weal may be preserved , and that they themselves may be able safely to live within their bounds . euseb . lib. . cap. ult . this was written about years before there was a pope or universal bishop in rome . sabinus the emperors chief officer wrote his pleasure in this wise . the majesty of our most gratious and soveraign lords the emperours hath lately decreed with special diligence and devotion , to induce all men to a uniform life , that they which seemed to dissent from the roman custom by a straying manner of living , should exhibit to the immortal gods their due and proper worship ; but the wilful and obstinate mind of divers so much and so continually resisted the same , that by no lawful means they might be revoked from their purpose , neither made affraid by any terror or punishment ; because therefore it so came to passe , that by this means many put themselves in peril and in jeopardy ; the majesty of our soveraign lords the emperors , according to their noble piety , considering that it was far from their princely majesties , that such things should be , whereby so many men and much people should be destroyed , gave me in charge that with diligence i should write unto you , that , if any of the christians from henceforth fortune to be taken in the exercise of their religion , that in no no wise you molest the same , neither for that cause do you judge any man worthy of punishment , for that in all this time it hath evidently appeared , that by no means they might be allured from such wilfulnesse ; it is therefore requisite that your wisdom write unto the questor , captains and constables of every city and village , that they may know it not to be lawful for them to do contrary to the prescript of this commandment , neither that they presume to attempt the same , euseb lib. . cap. this was written about three hundred and thirty years before there was a pope or chief bishop at rome . published by george fox . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e great vol. page in the third persecution , an notes for div a -e page . anno in the d. persecution . notes for div a -e page . anno in the th persecution . notes for div a -e pag. . in the eighth persecution of the . anno . euseb . lib. , cap. . notes for div a -e page . about an. in the th persecution . notes for div a -e page . about an. . in the tenth persecution . notes for div a -e pag. : in the tenth persecution . anno . notes for div a -e pag. : about anno . in the tenth persecution , six papers by gilbert burnet. burnet, gilbert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) six papers by gilbert burnet. burnet, gilbert, - . [i.e. ] p. s.n.], [s.l. : . "containing i. reasons against the repealing the acts of parliament concerning the test, humbly offer'd to the consideration of the members of both houses at their next meeting, ii. reflections of his majesties proclamation for a toleration in scotland, together with the said proclamation, iii. reflections on his majesties declaration for liberty of conscience, dated the fourth of april, , iv. an answer to a paper printed with allowance entitled a new test of the church of england's loyalty, v. remarks on the two papers writ by his late majesty king charles ii, concerning religion, vi. the citation togethar [sic] with three letters to the earl of midleton." reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- apologetic works. freedom of religion -- england. great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion six papers containing i. reasons against the repealing the acts of parliament concerning the test . humbly offer'd to the consideration of the members of both houses , at their next meeting . ii. reflections on his majesties proclamation for a toleration in scotland , together with the said proclamation . iii. reflections on his majesties declaration for liberty of conscience . dated the fourth of april , . iv. an answer to a paper printed with allowance , entitled , a new test of the church of england ' s loyalty . v. remarks on the two papers , writ by his late majesty king charles ii. concerning religion . vi. the citation , togethar with three letters to the earl of midleton . by gilbert burnet , d. d. printed in the year , . reasons against the repealing the acts of parliament concerning the test humbly offered to the consideration of the members of both houses , at their next meeting . i. if the just apprehensions of the danger of popery gave the birth to the two laws for the two tests , the one with relation to all publick employments in . and the other with relation to the constitution of our parliaments for the future in . the present time and conjuncture does not seem so proper for repealing them ; unless it can be imagined , that the danger of popery is now so much less than it was formerly , that we need be no more on our guard against it . we had a king , when these laws were enacted , who as he declared himself to be of the church of england , by receiving the sacrament four times a year in it , so in all his speeches to his parliaments , and in all his declarations to his subjects , he repeated the assurances of his firmness to the protestant religion so solemnly and frequently , that if the saying a thing often gives just reason to believe it , we had as much reason as ever people had to depend upon him : and yet for all that , it was thought necessary to fortifie those assurances with laws : and it is not easie to imagin , why we should throw away those , when we have a prince that is not only of another religion himself , but that has expressed so much steadiness in it , and so much zeal for it . that one would think we should rather now seek a further security , than throw away that which we already have . ii. our king has given such testimonies of his zeal for his religion , that we see among all his other royal qualities , there is none for which he desires and deserves to be so much admired . since even the passion of glory , of making himself the terrour of all europe , and the arbiter of christendom ( which as it is natural to all princes , so must it be most particularly so to one of his martial and noble temper ) yields to his zeal for his church ; and that he , in whom we might have hoped to see our edward the third , or our henry the fifth reviv'd ; chooses rather to merit the heightning his degree of glory in another world , than to acquire all the lawrel● and conquests that this low and vile world can give him : and that , instead of making himself a terrour to all his neighbours , he is contented with the humble glory of being a terrour to his own people ; so that instead of the great figure which this reign might make in the world , all the news of england is now only concerning the practises on some fearful mereenaries . th●se things shew , that his majesty is so possessed with his religion , that this cannot suffer us to think , that there is at present no danger from popery . iii. it does not appear , by what we see , either abroad or at home , that popery has so changed its nature , that we have less reason to be afraid of it at present , than we had in former time . it might be thought ill nature to go so far back , as to the councils of the lateran , that decreed the extirpation of hereticks , with severe sanctions on those princes that failed in their duty , of being the hangmen of the inquisitors ; or to the council of constance , that decreed , that princes were not bound to keep their faith to hereticks ; tho it must be acknowledged , that we have extraordinary memories if we can forget such things , and more extraordinary understandings if we do not make some inferences from them . i will not stand upon such inconsiderable trifles as the gunpowder-plot , or the massacre of ireland ; but i will take the liberty to reflect a little on what that church has done since those laws were made , to give us kinder and softer thoughts of them , and to make us the less apprehensive of them . we see before our eyes what they have done , and are still , doing in france ; and what seeble things edicts , coronation oaths , laws and promises , repeated over and over again , proved to be , where that religion prevails ; and louis le grand makes notso contemptible a figure in that church , or in our court , as to make us think , that his example may not he proposed as a pattern , as well as aid may be offered for an encouragement , to act the same things in england , that he is now d●ing with so much applause in france : and it may be perhaps tho rather desired from hence to put him a little in countenance , when so great a king as ours is willing to forget himself so far as to copy after him , and to depend upon him : so that as the doctriue and principles of that church must be still the same in all ages and places , since its chief pretension is , that it is infallible , it is no unreasonable thing for us to be afraid of those , who will be easily induced to burn us a little here , when they are told , that such servent zeal will save them a more lasting burning hereafter , and will perhaps quit all scores so enttirely , that they may hope scarce to endure a singeing in purgatory for all their other sins . iv. if the severest order of the church of rome , that has breathed out nothing but fire and blood since its first formation , and that is even decryed at rome it self for its violence , is in such credit here ; i do not see any inducement from thence to persuade us to look on the councils that are directed by that society , as su●h harmless and inoffensive things , that we need be no more on our guard against them . i know not why we may not apprehend as much from father petre , as the french have felt from pere de la chaise , since all the difference that is observed to be between them , is , that the english iesuite has much more fire and passion , and much less conduct and judgment than the french has . and when rome has expressed so great a jealousy of the interest that that order had in our councils , that ● . morgan , who was thought to influence our ambassadour , was ordered to leave rome , i do not see why england should look so tamely on them . no reason can be given why card. howard should be shut out of all their councils , unless it be , that the nobleness of his birth , and the gentleness of his temper , are too hard even for his religion and his purple , to be mastered by them . and it is a contradiction , that nothing but a belief capable of receiving transubstantiation can recoucile , to see men pretend to observe law , and yet to find at the same time an ambassadour from england at rome , when there are so many laws in our pook of statutes , never yet repealed , that have declared over and over again all commerce with the court and s●e of rome to be high treason v. the late famous judgment of our judges , who knowing no other way to make their names immortal , have found an effectual one to preserve ●hem from being ever forgot , seems to call for another method of proceeding . the p●esident they have set must be fatal either to them o●●ns . for if twel●e men , that get into scarlet and fu●s , have an authority to dissolve all our laws , the english government is to be hereafter lookt at with as much scorn , as it has hitherto drawn admiration . that doubtful words of laws , made so long ago , that the intention of the lawgivers is not certainly known , must be expounded by the judges , is not to be question'd ▪ but to infer from thence , that the plain words of a law so lately made , and that was so vigorously asserted by the present parliament , may be made void by a decision of theirs , after so much practice upon them , is just as reasonable a way of a●puing , as theirs is , who because the church of england acknowledges that the church has a power in matters of rites and ceremonies , will from thence conclude , that this power must go so far , that tho christ has said of the cup , drink ye all of it , we must obey the church when she decrees that we shall not drink of it : our judges for the greater part , were men that had past their lives in so much retirement , that from thence one might have hoped , that they had studied our law well , since the bar had ●alled them so seldome from their studies : and if practice is thought often hur●ful ●o speculation , as that which disorders and hurries the judgment , they who had practised so little in our law , had no byass on their understandings : and if the habit of taking money as a lawyer is a dangerous preparation for one that is to be an incorrupt judge , they should have been incorruptible , since it is not thought , that the greater part of them got ever so much money by their profession as pay'd for their furs . in short , we now see how they have , merited their preferment , and they may yet expect a further exalcation when the justice and the laws of england come to be in hands , that will be as careful to preserve them , as they have been no destroy them . but what an infamy will it lay upon the name of an english parliament , if instead of calling those betrayers of their countrey to an account , they should go by an after-game to confirm what these fellows ha●e done . vi. the late canferences with so many members of both houses , will give such an ill-natured piece of jealousy against them , that of all persons living , that are the most concern'd to take care how they give their votes , the world will believe , that threatnings and promises had as large a share in those secret conversations , as reasoning or persuasion : and it must be a more than ordinary degree of zeal and courage in them , that must take off the blot , of being sent for , and spoke to , on such a subject and such a manner . the worthy behaviour of the members in the last session , had made the nation unwilling to remember the errors committed in the first election : and it is to be hoped , that they will not give any cause for the future to call that to mind . for if a parliament , that had so many flaws in its first conception , goes to repeal laws , that we are sure were made by legal parliaments , it will put the nation on an enquiry that nothing but necessity will drive them to . for a nation may be laid asleep , and be a little cheated ; but when it is awakned , and sees its danger , it will not look on and see a rape made on its religion and liberties , without examining , from whence have these men this authority ? they will hardly find that it is of men ; and they will not believe that it is of god. but it is to be hoped , that there will be no occasion ▪ given for this angry question which is much easier made than answered . vii . if all that where now asked in favour of popery , were only some gentleness towards the papists , there were some reason to entertain the debate , when the demand were a little more modest : if men were to be attainted of treason , for being reconciled to the church of rome , or for reconciling others to it ; if priests were demanded to be hanged , for taking orders in the church of rome ; and if the two thirds of the papists estates were offered to be levied , it were a very natural thing to see them uneasy and restless : but now the matter is more barefaced ; they are not contented to live at ease , and enjoy their estates ; but they must carry all before them : and f. petre cannot be at quiet , unless he makes as great a figure in our court , as pere de la chaise does at versailles . a cessation of all severities against them , is that to which the nation would more easily submit ; but it is their behaviour that must create them the continuance of the like compassion in another reign . if a restless and a persecuting spirit were not inherent in that order , that has now the ascendant , they would have behaved themselves so decently under their present advantages ; as to have made our divines , that have charged them so heavily , look a little out of countenance : and this would have wrought more on the good nature of the nation , and the princly nobleness of the successors whom we have in view , than those arts of craft and violence , to which we see their tempers carry them even so early , before it is yet time to show themselves . the temper of the english nation , the heroical vertues of those whom we have in our eyes , but above all , our most holy religion , which instead of revenge and cruelty , inspires us with charity and mercy , even for enemies , are all such things , as may take from the gentlemen of that religion all sad apprehensions , unless they raise a storm against themselves , and provoke the iustice of the nation to such a degree , that the successors may find it necessary to be iust , even when their own inclinations would rather carry them to shew mercy . in short , they need fear nothing but what they create to themselves : so that all this stir that they keep for their own safety , looks too like the securing to themselves pardons for the crimes that they intend to commit . viii . i know it is objected as no small prejudice against these laws , that the very making of them discovered a particular malignity against his majesty , and therefore it is ill manners to speak for them . the first had perhaps an eye at his being then admiral : and the last was possibly levelled at him : though when that was discovered , he was excepted out of it by a special proviso , and as for that which past in , i hope it is not forgot , that it was enacted by that loyal parliament , that had setled both the prerogative of the crown and the rites of the church , and that had given the king more money than all the parliaments of england had ever done in all former times . a parliament that had indeed some disputes with the king , but upon the first step that he made with relation to religion or safety , they shewed how ready they were to forget all that was past : as appeared by their behaviour after the triple alliance . and in , though they had great cause given them to dislike the dutch war , especially the strange beginning of it upon the smirna fleet : and the stopping the exchequer , the declaration for toleration , and the writes for the members of the house , were matters of hard digestion ; yet no saoner did the king give them this new assurance for their religion then , though they had very great reasons given them to be jealous of the vvar , yet since the king was engaged , they gave him pounds for carrying it on ; and they thought they had no ill penniworths for their money , when they carried home with them to their countries this new security for their religion , which we are now desired to throw up , and which the reverend judges have already thrown out as a law out of date . if this had carried in it any new piece of severity , their complaints might be just ; but they are extream tender , if they are so uneasie under a law that only gives them leisure and opportunities to live at home , and the last test , which was intended only for shutting them out from a share in the legislative body , appears to be so just , that one is rather amased to find that it was so long a doing , than that it was done at last ; and since it is done , it is a great presumption on our understandings to think , that we should be willing to part with it . if it was not sooner done , it was because there was not such cause given for jealousie to work upon but what has appeared since that time and what has been printed in his majesties name , shews the world now , that the jealousies which occasion'd those laws , were not so ill grounded , as some well meaning men perhaps then believed them to be . but there are some times in which all mens eyes come to be opened . ix . i am told , some think it is very indecent to have a test for our parliaments , in which the king's religion i● accused of idolatry ; but if this reason is good in this particular , it will be full as good against several of the articles of our church , and many of the homilies . if the church and religion of this nation is so formed by law , that the king's religion is declared over and over again to be idolatrous , what help is there for it ? it is no other , than it was when his majesty was crowned , and swore to maintain our laws . i hope none will be wanting in all possible respect to his sacred person ; and as we ought to be infinitely sorry to find him engaged in a religion which we must believe idolatrous , so we are far from the ill manners of reflecting on his person , or calling him an idolator : for as every man that reports a lye , is not for that to be called a lyar ; so that tho' the ordering the intention , and the prejudice of a misperswasion are such abatements , that we will not rashly take on us to call every man of the church of rome an idolater ; yet on the other hand , we can never lay down our charge against the church of rome as guilty of idolatry , unless at the same time we part with our religion . x. others give us a strange sort of argument , to perswade us to part with the test ; they say , the king must imploy his popish subjects , for he can trust no other ; and he is so assured of their fidelity to him , that we need apprehend no danger from them . this is an old method to work on us , to let in a sort of people to the parliament and government , since the king cannot trust us , but will depend on them : so that as soon as this law is repealed , they must have all the imployments , and have the whole power of the nation lodged in their hands ; this seems a little to gross to impose , even on irish-men . the king saw for many years together , with how much zeal both the clergy , and many of the gentry appeared for his interests ; and if there is now a melancholy damp on their spirits , the king can dissipate it when he will ; and as the church of england is a body that will never rebell against him , so any sullenness under which the late administration of affairs has brought them , would soon vanish , if the king would be pleas'd to remember a little what he has so often promised , not only in publick but in pivate ; and would be contented with the exercise of his own religion , without imbroiling his whole affairs , because f. petre will have it so : and it tempts englishmen to to more than ordinary degrees of rage , against a sort of men , who it seems , can infuse in a prince , born with the highest sense of honour possible , projects to which without doing some violence to his own royal nature , he could not so much as hearken to , if his religion did not so fatally muffle him up in a blind obedience . but if we are so unhappy , that priests can so disguise matters , as to mis-lead a prince , who without their ill insluences would be the most glorious monarch of all europe , and would soon reduce the grand lauis to a much humbler fgure , yet it is not to be so much as imagined , that ever their arts can be so unhappily successful , as to impose on an english parliament , composed of protestant members . some reflections on his majesties proclamation of the twelfth of february , / for a toleration in scotland , together with the said pro-proclamation . i. the preamble of a pr●clamama●ion is fst writ in hast , and is the flourish of some wa●t●n pen : but one of such an extraordinary 〈◊〉 as this is , was probably more severely examined ; there is a new designation of his majesties authority here set forth of his absolute power , which is so often repeated , that it deserves to be a little searched into . prerogative royal and soveraign authority , are terms already received and known ; but for this absolute power , as it is a new term , so those who have coined it , may make it signifie what they will. the roman law speaks of princeps legibus solutus , and absolute in its natural signification , importing the being without all ties and restraints ; then the true meaning of this seems to be , that there is an inherent power in the king , which can neither be restrained by laws , promises , nor oaths ; for nothing less than the being free from all these , renders a power absolute . ii. if the former term seemed to stretch our allegiance , that which comes after it , is yet a step of another nature , tho one can hardly imagine what can go beyond absolute power : and it is in these words , which all our subjects are to obey without reserve . and this is the carrying obedience many sizes beyond what the grand seigneur ever yet claimed : for all princes , even the most violent pretenders to absolute power , till lewis the great 's time , have thought it enought to oblige their subjects to submit to their power , and to bear whatsoever they thought good to impose upon them ; but till the days of the late conversions by the dragoons , it was never so much as pretended , that subjects were bound to obey their prince without reserve , and to be of his religion , because he would have it so . which was the only argument that those late apostles made use of ; so it is probale this qualification of the duty of subjects was put in here , to prepare us for a terrible le roy le veut ; and in that case we are told here , that we must obey without reserve ; and when those severe orders come , the privy council , and all such as execute this proclamation , will be bound by this declaration to shew themselves more forward than any others , to obey without reserve : and those poor pretensions of conscience , religion , honour , and reason , will be then reckoned as reserves upon their obedience , which are all now shat out . iii. these being the grounds upon which this proclamation is founded , we ought not only to consider what consequences are now drawn from them , but what may be drawn from them at any time hereafter ; for if they are of force , to justify that which is inferred from them , it will be full as just to draw from the same promises an abolition of the protestant religion , of the rights of the subjects , nor only to church-lands , but to all property whatsoever . in a word , it asserts a power to be in the king , to command what he will , and an obligation in the subjects , to obey whatsoever he shall command . iv. there is also mention made in the preamble of the christian love and charity , which his majesty would have established among neighbours ; but another dash of a pen , founded on this absolute power , may declare us all hereticks ; and then in wonderful charity to us , we must be told , that we are either to obey without reserve or to be burnt without reserve . we know the charity of that church pretty well : it is indeed fervent and burning : and if we have forgot what has been done in former ages , france , savoy , and hungary , have set before our eyes very fresh instances of the charity of that religion . while those examples are so green , it is a little too imposing on us , to talk to us of christian love and charity . no doubt his majesty means sincerely , and his exactness to all his promises , chiesfly to those made since he came to the crown , will not suffer us to think an unbecoming thought of his royal-intentions ; but yet after all , tho' it seems by this proclamation , that we are bound to obey without reserve , it is hardship upon hardship to be bound to believe without reserve . v. there are a sort of people here tolerated , that will be hardly found out : and these are the moderate presbyterians : now , as some say , that there are very few of those people in scotland that deserves this character , so it is hard to tell what it amo●nts to ; and the calling any of them immoderate , cuts off all their share in this grace . moderation is a quality that lyes in the mind , and how this will be found out , i canot so readily guess . if a standard had been given of opinions or practices , then one could have known how this might have been disti●g●ished ; but as it lyes , it will not be easy to make the discrimination ; and the declaring them all immoderate , shuts them out quite . vi. another foundation laid down for repealing all laws made against the papists , is , that they were enacted in king iames the sixth's minority : with some harsh expressions , that are not to be insisted on , since they shew more the heat of the penner , than the dignity of the prince , in whose name they are given out ; but all these laws were ratifyed over and over again by king iames , when he came to be of fall age : and they have received many confirmations by king charles the first , and king charles the second , as well as by his present majesty , both when he represented his brother in the year , and since he himself came to the crown : so that whatsoever may be said concerning the first formation of those laws , they have received now for the course of a whole hundred years , thet are lapsed since king iames was of full age , so many confirmations , that if there is any thing certain in human government , we might depend upon them ; bat this new coyned absolute power must carry all before it . vii . it is also well known , that the whole settlement of the church lands and tythes , with many other things , and more particularly the establishment of the protestant religion , was likewise enacted in king iames's minority , as well as those penal laws : so that the reason now made use of , to annul the penal laws , will serve full as wel for another act of this absolute power , that shall abolish all those ; and if maximes that unhinge all the securities of human society , and all that is sacred in government , ought to be lookt on with the justest and deepest prejudices possible , one is tempted to lose the respect that is due to every thing that carr●es a●royal stamp upon it , when he sees such grounds made use of , as m●st shake all settlements whatsoever ; for if a prescription of years , and confirmations reiterated over and over again these years past , do not purge some defects in the first formation of those law , what can make us secure : but this looks so like a fetch of the french prerogative law , both in their processes with relation to the elict of nantes , and those concerning dependences at mets , that this seems to be a copy from that famous original . viii . it were too much ill nature to look into the history of the last age , to examine on what grounds those characters of pious and blessed given to the memory of q. mary are built , but since k. iames's memory has the character of glorious given to it , if the civility of the fair sex makes one unwilling to look into one , yet the other may be a little dwelt on . the peculiar glory that belongs to k. iames's memory , is , that he was a prince of great learning , and that he imployed it chiefly in writing for his religion : of the volume in folio in which we have his works , two thirds are against the churh of rome , one part of them is a commentary on the revelation , proving that the pope is antichrist ; another part of them belonged more naturally to his post dignity ; which is the warning that he gave to all the princes and states of europe , against the treasonable and bloody doctrines of the papacy . the first act he did when he came of age , was to swear in person with all his family , and afterwards with all his people of scotland , a covenant , containing an enumeration of all the points of popery , and a most solemn renunciation of them , somewhat like our parliament test : his first speech to the parliament of england was copious on this subject : and he left a legacy of a wish on such of his posterity as should go over to that religion , which in go●d manners is suppressed . it is known , k. iames was no conquerour , and that he made more use of his pen than his sword : so the glory that is peculiar to his memory must fall chiefly on his learned and immortal writings : and since there is such a veneration expressed for him , it agrees not ill with this , to wish , that his works were more studied by those who offer such incense to his glorious memory . ix . his majesty assures his people of scotland , upon a certain knowledge and long experience , that the catholicks , as they are good christians , so they are likewise dutiful subjects : but if we must believe both these equally ▪ then we must conclude severely against their being good christians ; for we are sure they can never be good subjects , not only to a heretical prince if he does not extirpate hereticks ; for their beloved council of the lateran , that decreed transubstantiation has likewise decreed , that if a prince does not extirpate hereticks out of his ●ominions , the pope must depose him , and declare his subjects absolved from their allegeance , and give his dominions to another : so that even his majesty , how much soever he may be a zealous catholick , yet cannot be assured of their fidelity to him , unless he has given them secret assurances , that he is resolved to extirpate hereticks out of his dominions ; and that all the p●omises which he now makes to these poor wretches are no other way to be kept , than the assurances which the great lewis gave to his pr●testant subjects , of his observing still the edict of nantes even after he had resolved to break it ▪ and also his last promise made in the edict , that repealed the edict of nantes , by which he gave assurances , that no violence should be used to any for their religion , in the very time that he was ordering all possible violences to be put in execution against them . x. his majesty assures us , that on all occasions the papists have shewed themselves good and faithful su●jects to him and his royal predecessors ; but how absolute soever the king's power may be , it seems his knowledge of history is not so absolute , but it may be capable of some improvement . it will be hard to find out what loyalty they shewed on the gunpowder plot , or during the whole progress of the rebellion of ireland ; if the king will either take the words of king iames of glorious memory , or k. charles the first , that was indeed of pious and blessed memory , rather than the penners of this proclamation , it will not be hard to find occasions where they were a little wanting in this their so much boasted loyalty : and we are sure , that by the principles of that religion , the king can never be assured of the fidelity of those he calls his catholick subjects , but by engaging to them to make his heretical subjects sacrifices to their rage . xi . the king declares them capable of all the offices and benefices which he shall think fit to bestow on them , and only restrains them from invading the protestant churches by force : so that here a door is plainly opened for admitting them to the exercise of their religion in protestant churches , so they do not break into them by force ; and whatsoever may be the sense of the term benefice in its antient and first signification , now it stands only for church preferments ; so that when any churches , that are at the king's gift , fall vacant , here is a plain intimation , that they are to be provided to them ; and then it is very probable , that all the laws made against such as go not to their parish churches , will be severely turned upon those that will not come to mass. xii . his majesty does in the next place , in the vertue of his absolute power , annul a great many laws , as well those that established the oaths of allegeance and supremacy , as the late test , enacted by himself in person , while he represented his brother : upon which he gave as strange an essay to the world of his absolute justice in the attainder of the late earl of argile , as he does now of his absolute power in condemning the test it self , he also repeals his own confirmation of the test , since he came to the crown , which he offered as the clearest evidence that he could give of his resolution to maintain the protestant religion , and by which he gained so much upon that parliament , that he obtained every thing from them that he desired of them ; till he came to try them in the matters of religion . this is no extraordinary evidence to assure his people , that his promises will be like the laws of the medes and perfians , which alter not ; nor will the disgrace of the commissioner that enacted that law , lay this matter wholly on him ; for the letter , that he brought , the speech that he made , and the instructions which he got , are all too well known to be so soon forgotten : and if princes will give their subjects reason to think , that they forget their promises , as soon as the turn is served for which they were made , this will be too prevailing a temptation on the subjects to mind the princes promise as little as it seems he himself does and will force them to conclude , that the truth of the prince , is not so absolute as it seems he fancies his power to be . xiii . here is not only a repealing of a great many laws , and established oaths and tests , but by the exercise of the absolute power , a new oath is imposed , which was never pretended to by the crown in any former time , and as the oath is created by this absolute power , so it seems the absolute power must be supported by this oath : since one branch of it , is an obligation to maintain his majesty and his lawful successors in the exercise of this their absolute power and authority against all deadly , which i suppose is scotch for mortals : now to impose so hard a yoke as this absolute power on the subject , seems no small stretch ; but it is a wonderful exercise of it to oblige the subjects to defend this : it had been more modest , if they had been only bound to bear it , and submit to it : but it is a terrible thing so far to extinguish all the remnants of natural liberty , or of a legal government , as to oblige the subjects by oath to maintain the exercise of this , which plainly must destroy themselves : for the short execution by the bow-strings of turkey , or by sending orders to men to return in their heads , being an exercise of this absolute power , it is a little too hard to make men swear to maintain the king in it : and if that kingdom has suffered so much by the many oaths that have been in use among them , as is marked in this proclamation , i am afraid this new oath will not much mend the matter . xiv . yet after all , there is some comfort ; his majesty assures them , he will use no violence nor force , nor any invincible necessity to any man on the account of his perswasion : it were too great a want of respect to fancy , that a time may come in which even this may be remembrad , full as well , as the promises that were made to the parliament after his majesty came to the crown : i do not i confess , apprehend that ; for i see here so great a caution used in the choice of these words , that it is plain , very great severities may very well consist with them : it is clear , that the general words of violence and force are to be determined by these last of invincible necessity , so that the king does only promise to lay no invincible necessity on his subjects ; but for all necess●ies that are not invincible , it seems thy must expect to bear a large share of them ; disgraces , want of imployments , fines and imprisonments , and even death it self are all vincible things to a man of a ●irmness of mind : so that the violences of torture , the furies of dragoo●s , and some of the methods now practised in france , perhaps may be included within this promise ; since these seem almost invincible to humane nature , if it is not fortified with an extraordinary measure of grace : but as to all other things , his majesty binds himself up from no part of the exercise of his absolute power by this promise . xv. his majesty orders this to go immediately to the great seal , without passing through the other seals : now since this is ●●unter-signed by the secretary in whose hands the signet is , there was no other step to be made but through the privy seal ; so i must own i have a g●eat curiosity of knowing his character in whose hands the privy seal is at present ; for it seems his conscience is not so very supple , as the chancellors and the secretaries are ; but it is very likely , if he does not quickly change his mind , the privy seal at least will very quickly change its keeper ; and i am sorry to hear , that the lord chancellor and the secretary have not another brother to fill this post , that so the guilt of the ruin of that nation , may lie on one si●gle family , and that there may be no others involved in it . xvi . upon the whole matter many smaller things being waved , it being extream unpleasant to find fault , where one has all possible dispositions to pay all respect ; we here in england see what we must look for . a parliament in scotland was tryed , but it proved a little stubborn ; and now absolute power comes to set all right ; so when the closetting has gone round , so that noses are counted , we may perhaps see a parliament here ; but if it chan●●s to be untoward , and not to obey without reserve , then our reverend judges will copy from scotland , and will not only tell us of the king 's imperial power , but will discover to us this new mystery of absolute power , to whch we are all bound to obey without reserve . these reflexions refer in so many places to some words in the proclamation , that it was thought necessary to set them near one another , that the reader may be able to iudge , whether he is deceived by any false quotations or not . by the king. a proclamation . iames r. james the seventh by the grace of god , king of scotland , england , france & ireland , defender of the faith , &c. to all and sundry our good subjects . whom these presents do or may concern , greeting . we have taken into our royal consideration the many and great inconveniencies which have happened to that our ancient kingdom of scotland of late years , through the different perswasions in the christian religion , and the great heats and animosities amongst the several professors thereof , to the ruin and decay of trade , wasting of lands , extinguishing of charity , contempt of the royal power ; and converting of true religion , and the fear of god , into animosities , names , fractions , and sometimes into sacrilege and treason . and being resolved as much as in us lyes , to unite the hearts and affections of our subjects , to god in religion , to us in loyalty , and to their neighbours in christian love and charity . have therefore thought fit to grant , and by gur souveraign authority , prerogative royal , and absolute power , which all our subjects are to obey without reserve ; do hereby give and grant our royal toleration ; to the several professors of the christian religion after named , with , and under the several conditions , restrictions , and limitations after-mentioned . in the first place , we allow and tolerate the moderate presbyterians , to meet in their private houses , and there to hear all such ministers , as either have , or are willing to accept of our indulgence allanerly , and none other , and that there be not any thing said or done contrary to the well and peace of our reign , seditious or treasonable , under the highest pains these crimes will import ; nor are they to presume to build meeting-houses , or to use out-houses or barns , but only to exercise in their private houses , as said is : in the mean time , it is our royal will and pleasure , that field-conventicles , and such as preach , or exercise at them , or who shall any ways assist or connive at them , shall be prosecuted according to the utmost severity of our laws made against them , seeing from these rendezvouzes of rebellion , so much disorder hath proceeded , and so much disturbance to the government , and for which after this our royal indulgence for tender consciences there is no excuse lef● . in like manner , we do hereby tolerate quakers to meet and exercise in their form , in any place or places appointed for their worship . and considering the severe and cruel laws made against roman catholicks ( therein called papists ) in the minority of our royal grand father of * glorious memory , without his consent , and contrary to the duty of good subjects , by his regents , and other enemies to their lawful soveraigns our royal great grand mother queen mary of blessed and pious memory , wherein ●nder the pretence of religion , they cloathed the worst of treasons , factions , and usurpations , and 〈◊〉 these laws , not as against the enemies of god , but their own ; which laws have still been continued of course without design of executing them , or any of them ad terrorem only , on supposition , that the papists relying on an external power , were incapable of duty , and true allegeance to their natural soveraigns , and rightful monarchs ; we of our certain knowledge , and long experience , knowing that the catholicks , as it is their principle to be good christians , so it is to be dutiful subjects ; and that they have likewise on all occasions shewn themselves good and faithful subjects to us , and our royal predecessors , by hazarding , and many of them actually losing their lives and fortunes , in their defence ( though of another religion ) and the maintenance of their authority against the violences and treasons of the most violent abettors of these laws : do therefore with advice and consent of our privy counc●l ▪ by our soveraign authority , prerogative royal , and absolute power , aforesaid , suspend , stop , and disable all laws , or acts of parliament , customs or constitutions , made or executed against any of our roman catholick subjects , in any time past , to all intents and purposes , making void all prohibitions therein mentioned , pains or penalties therein ordained to be inflicted , so that they shall in all things he as free in all respects as any of our protestant subjects whatsoever , not only to exercise their religion , but to enjoy all offices , benefices and others , which we shall think fit to bestow upon them in all time coming : nevertheless , it is our will and pleasure , and we do hereby c●mmand all catholicks at their highest pains , only to exercise their religious worship in houses or chappels ; and that they presume not to preach in the open fields , or to invade the protestant churches by force , under the pains aforesaid , to be inflicted upon the offenders respectively ; nor shall they presume to make publick processions in the high-streets of any of our royal burghs , under the pains above mentioned . and whereas the obedience and service of our good subjects is due to us by their allegiance , and our soveraignty , and that no law , custom , or constitution , difference in religion , or other impediment whatsoever , can exempt or discharge the subjects from their native obligations and duty to the crown or hinder us from protecting , and employing them , according to their several capacities , and our royal pleasure ; nor restrain us from conferring heretable rights and priviledges upon them , or vacuate or annul these rights hereable , when they are made or conferred ; and likewise considering , that some oaths are capable of being wrested ●y men of sinistrous intentions , a practice in that kingdom fatal to religion as it was to loyalty ; do therefore , with advice and consent aforesaid , ●ass , annul and discharge all oaths whatsoever , by which any of our subjects are incapac●●ated , or disabled from holding places , or offices in our said kingdom , or enjoying their hereditary rights and priviledges , discharging the same to be taken or given in any time coming , without our special warrant and consent , under the pains due to the contempt of our royal commands a●d authority . and to this effect● we do by our roya● authority aforesaid , stop , 〈◊〉 , and di●pense with all laws enjoyning the said oaths , t●sts , or any of them , particularly the first act of the first session of the first parliament of king charles the second ; the eleventh act of the foresaid session of the foresaid parliament , the sixth act of the third parliament of the said king charles ; the twenty first and twenty fifty acts of that parliament , and the thirteenth act of the first session of * our late parliament , in so far allanerly as concerns the taking the oaths or tests therein prescribed , and all others , as well not mentioned as mentioned , and that in place of them , all our good subjects , or such of them as we or our privy council shall require so to do , shall take and swear the following oath allanerly . i a. b. do acknowledge , testifie and declare , that james the seventh , by the grace of god , king of scotland , england , france and ireland , defender of the faith. &c. is rightful king and supream governour of these realms , and over all persons therein ; and that it is unlawful for subjects , on any pretence , or for any cause whatsoever , to rise in arms against him , or any commissionated by him ; and that i shall never so rise in arms , nor assist any who shall so do ; and that i shall never resist his power or authority , nor ever oppose his authority to his pers●n , as i shall answer to god ; but shall to the utmost of my power assist , defend , and maintain him , his heirs and lawful successors , in the exercise of their absolute power ▪ and authority against all deadly . so help me god. and seeing many of our good subjects have before our pleasure in these matters was made publick , incurred the guilt appointed by the acts of parliament above-mentioned , or others ; we , by our authority , and absolute power and prerogative royal above-mentioned , of our certain knowledge , and inna●e mercy , give our ample and full indemnity to all those of the roman-catholick or popish religion , for all things by them done contrary to our laws , or acts of parliament , made in any time past , relating to their religion , the worship and excercise thereof , or for being papists , jesuits , or traffickers , for hearing , or saying of mass , concealing of priests or jesuits breeding their children catholicks at home or abroad , or any other thing , rite or doctrrine , said , performed , or maintained by them , or any of them : and likewise , for holding or taking of places , employments , or offices , contrary to any law or constitution , advices given to us , or our council , actions done , or generally any thing performed or said against the known laws of that our ancient kingdom : excepting always from this our royal indemnity , all murders , assassinations , thefts , and such like other crimes , which never used to be comprehended in our general acts of indemnity . and we command and require all our judges , or others concerned , to explain this in the most ample sense and meaning acts of indemnity at any time have contained : declaring this shall be as good to every one concerned , as if they had our royal pardon and remission under our great seal of that kingdom . and likewise indemnifying our protestant subjects from all pains and penalties due for hearing or preaching in houses ; providing there be no treasonable speeches uttered in the said conventicles by them , in which case the law is only to take place against the guilty , and none other present ; pr●v●ding also that they r●veal to any of our council the guilt so committed ; as also , execpting all fines , or effects of sentences already given . and likewise indemnifying fully and freely all quakers , for their meetings and worship , in all time past , preceeding the publication of these p●esents . and we doubt not but our protestant subjects will give their assistance and concourse hereunto , on all occasions , in their respective capacities . in consideration whereof , and the ease those of our religion , and others may have hereby , and for the encouragement of our protestant bishops , and the regular clergy , and such as have hitherto lived orderly , we think fit to declare , that it never was our principle , nor will we ever suffer violence to be offered to any man's conscience , nor will we use force , or invincible nec●ssity against any man on the account of his perswasion , nor the protestant religion , but will protect our bishops and other ministers in their functions , rights and properties , and all our protestant subjects in the free exercise of their protestant religion in the churches . and that we will , and hereby promise , on our royal word , to maintain the possessors of church-lands formerly belonging to abbeys , or other churches of the catholick religion , in their f●ll and free possession and right , according to our laws and acts of parliament in that behalf in all time coming . and we will imploy indifferently all our subjects of all perswasions , so as none shall meet with any discouragement on the account of his religion , but be advanced , and esteemed by us , according to their several capacities and qualifications , so long as we find charity and unity maintained . and if any animosities shall arise , as we ho●e in god there will not , we will sl●e● the severest effects of our royal displeasure against the beginners or fomenters chereof , seeing thereby our subjects may be deprived of this general ease and satisfaction , we intend to all of them , whose happiness , prosperity , wealth and safety , is so much our royal care , that we will leave nothing undone which may procure these blessin●s for them . and lastly , to the end all our good subjects may have notice of this our royal will and pleasure , we do hereby command , our lyon king at arms , and his brethren heraulds , macers , pursevants and messengers at arms , to make timous proclamation thereof at the mercat-cross of edinburgh ; and besides the printing and publishing of this our royal proclamation , it is our express will and pleasure , that the same be past under the great seal of that our kingdom per saltum , ●* without passing any other seal or register . in order whereunto , this shall be to the directors of o●r chancellary , and their deputies for writing the same , and to our chancellor for causing our great seal aforesaid , to be appended thereunto , a sufficient warrand . given at our court at whitehall the twelfth day of febr. . and of our reign the third year . by his majesties command melfort . god save the king. a letter , containing some reflections on his majesties declaration for liberty of conscience , dated the fourth of april , . sir , . i thank you for the favour of sending me the late declaration that his majesty has granted for liberty of conscience . i confess , i longed for it with great impatience , and was surprised to find it so different from the scotch pattern ; for i imagined , that it was to be set to the second part of the same tune : nor can i see why the penners of this have su●k so much in their stile ; for i suppose the same men penned both . i expected to have seen the imperial language of absolute power , to which all the subjects are to obey without reserve ; and of the cassing , annulling , the stopping , and disabling of laws set forth in the preamble and body of this declaration ; whereas those dreadful words are not to be found here : for instead of repealing the laws , his majesty pretends by this only to suspend them ; and tho in effect this amounts to a repeal , yet it must be confessed that the words are softer . now since the absolute power , to which his maj●sty pretends in scotland , is not founded on such poor things as law ; for that would look as if it were the gift of the people ; but on the divine authority , which is supposed to be delegated to his majesty , this may be as well claimed in england as it was in scotland : and the pretentions to absolute power is so great a thing , that since his majesty thought sit once to claim it , he is little beholding to those that make him fall so much in his language ; especially since both these declarations have appeared in our gazettes ; so that ●s we see what is done in scotland , we know from hence what is in some peoples hearts , and what we may expect in england . ii. his majesty tells his people , that the perfect injoyment of their property has never been in any case invaded by him since his coming to the crown . this is indeed matter of great incouragement to all good subjects ; for it lets them see , that such invasions , as have been made on property , have been done without his majesties knowledge : so that no doubt the continuing to levy the customes and the additional excise ( which had been granted only during the late kings life , ) before the parliament could meet to renew the grant , was done without his majesties knowledge ; the many violences committed not only by soldiers , but officers , in all the parts of england , which are severe invasions on pr●perty , have been all without his majesties knowledge ; and since the first branch of property is the right that a man has to his life , the strange essay of mahometan government , that was shewed at taunton ; and the no less strange proceedings of the present lord chancellour , in his circuit after the rebellion ( which are very justly called his campagne , for it was an open act of hostility to all law ) and for which and other services of the like nature , it is believed he has had the reward of the great seal , and the executions of those who have left their colours , which being founded on no law , are no other than so many murders ; all these , i say , are as we are sure , invasions on property ; but since the king tells us , that no such invasions have been made since he came to the crown , we must conclude that all these things have fallen out without his privity . and if a standing army , in time of peace , has been ever lookt on by this nation as an attempt upon the whole property of the nation in gross , one must conclude , that even this is done without his majesties knowledge . iii. his majesty expresses his charity for us in a kind wish , that we were all members of the catholick church ; in return to which we offer up daily our most e●rnest prayers for him , that he may become a memebr of the truly catholick church : for wishes and prayers do no hurt on no side : but his majesty adds , that it has ever been his opinion , that cons●ience ought not to be constrained , nor people forced in matters of meer religion . we are very happy if this continues to be always his sense : but we are sure in this he is no obedient member of that which he means by the catholick church : for it has over and over ag●in decreed the extirpation of heriticks . it encourages princes to it , by the offer of the pardon of their sins ; it threatens them to it , by denouncing to them not only the judgments of god ; but that which is more sensible , the loss of their dominions : and it s●ems they intend to make us know that part of their doctrine even before we come to feel it , since tho some of that communion would take away the horror which the fourth council of the lateran gives us , in which these things were decreed , by denying it to be a general council , and rejecting the authority of those canons , yet the most learned of all the apostates that has fallen to them from our church , has so lately given up this plea , and has so f●rmally a●knowledged the authority of that council , and of its canons , that it seems they think they are bound to this piece of fair dealing of w●rning us before hand of our danger . it is true bellarmin says , the church does not always execute her power of deposing heretical princes , tho she always retains it : one reason that he assigns , is , because she is not at all times able to put it in execution : so the same reason may perhaps make it appear unadviseable to extirpate hereticks , because that at present it cannot be done ; but the right remains inti●e , and is put in execution in such an unrelenting manner in all places where that religion prevails , that it has a very ill grace , to see any member of that church speak in this strain : and when neither the policy of france , nor the greatness of their monarch , nor yet the interests of the empero●r joyned to the gentleness of his own temper , could withstand these bloody councils , that are indeed parts of that religion , we can see no reason to induce us to believe , that a toleration of religion is proposed with any other design but either to divide us , or to lay us asleep till it is time to give the alarm for destroying us . iv. if all the endeavonrs , that have been used in the last four reig●s , for bringing the subjects of this kingdom to a unity in religion have been ineffectual , as his majesty says ; we know to whom we owe both the first beginnings and the progress of the divisions among our selves ; the gentleness of q. elizabeth's government , and the numbers of those that adhered to the church of rome , made it scarce possible to put an end to that party during her reign , which has been ever since restless , and has had credit enough at court during the three last reigns , not only to su●p●rt it self , but to distract us , and to divert us from apprehending the danger of being swallowed up by them , by fomenting our own diff●rences , and by setting on either a toleration , or a p●rsecu●i●n , as it has happened to serve their interests it is not so very long since , that nothing was to be heard at co●rt but the supporting the church of england , and the extirpating all the nonconformists : and it were easie to name the persons , if it were decent , that had this in their mouths ; but now all is turned round again , the church of england is in disgrace ; and now the encouragement of trade , the quiet of the nation , and the freedom of conscience are again in vogue , that were such odious things but a few years ago , that the very mentioning them was enough to load any man with suspicious as backward in the king's service , while such methods are used , and the government is as in an ague , divided between hot and cold fits , no wonder if laws so unsteadily executed have fa●led of their effect . v. there is a good reserve here left for severity , when the proper opportunity to set it on presents it self : for his majesty declares himself only against the forcing of men in matters of meet religion : so that whensoever religion and p●licy come to be so interwoven , that meer religion is not the case , and that publick safety may be prete●ded then thi● declaration is to b● no mo●e claimed : so that the fastning any thing upon the protestant religion , that is inconsistent with the publick peace , will be pretended to shew that they are no persecuted for meer religion . in france , when it was resolved to extirpate the protestants , all the discourses that were written on that subject were full of the wars occasi●ned by those of the religion in the last age , tho as these was the happy occa●●ons of bringing the house of b●u●bon to the crown , they had been ended above years ago , and there had not been so much as the least tumul● raised by them these years past : so that the french who have smarted under this severity , could not be charged with the least infraction of the law : yet stories of a huddred years old were raised up to inspire into the king those apprehensions of them , which ●ave produced the terrible effects that are visible to all the world. there is another expression in this declaration , which lets us likewise see with what caution the offers of favour are now worded , that so there may be an occasion given when the time and conjuncture shall be favourable to break through them all : it is in these words , so that they take especial care that nothing be preached or taught amongst them , which may any ways tend to alienate the hearts of our people from us or our goverment . this in it self is very reasonable ; and could admit of no exception , if we had not to do with a set of men , who to our great misfortune have so much credit with his majesty , and who will be no sooner lodged in the power to which they pretend , then they will make every thing that is preached against popery pass for that which may in some manner alienate the sabjects from the king. vi. his majesty makes no doubt of tthe concurrence of his two houses of parliament , when he shall think it convenient for them to meet . the hearts of king are unsearchable , so that it is a little too presumptuous to look into his hajesties secret thoughts : but according to the judgments that we would make of other mens thoughts by their actions , one would bet●mpted to think , that his majesty made some doubt of it , since his affairs both at home and abroad could not go the worse , if it appeared that there were a perfect understanding between him and his parliament , and that his people were supporting him with fresh supplies ; and this house of commons is so much at his devotion , that all the world saw how ready they were to rant every thing that he could desire of them , till he began to lay off the mask with relation to the test , and since that time the frequent prorogations , the closetting , and the pains that has been taken to gain members , by promises made to some , and the disgraces of others , would make one a little inclined to think , that some doubt was made of their concurrence . but we must confess , that the depth of his majesties judgment is such , that we cannot fathom it , and therefore we cannot guess what his doubts or his assurances are . it is true , the words that come after unriddle the mistery a little , which are , when his majesty shall think it convenient for them to mett : for the meaning of this seems plain , that his majesty is resolved that they shall never meet , till he receive ; such assurances , in a new round of closetting that he shall be pat out of doubt concerning it . vii . i will not enter into the dispute concerning liberty of conscience , and the reasons that may be offered for it to a session of parliament ; for there is scarce any one point , that either with relation to religion , or politicks , affords a greater variety of matter for reflection : and i make no doubt to say , that there is abundance of reason to oblige parliament to review all the nal laws , either with relation to papists , or to dissenters : but i will take the boldness to add one thing , that the kings suspending of laws strikes at the root of this whole government , and subverts it quite : for if there is any thing certain with relation to english government , it is this , that the executive power of the law is entirely in the king ; and the law to fortifie him in the management of it has cloathed him with a vast prerogative ▪ and made it unlawful on any pretence wh●● oev● to resist him : whereas on the other hand , the legislative power is not so entirely in the king , but that the lords and commons have such a share in it , that no law can be either made , repealed , or which is all one suspended , but by their consent : sh● that the placing this legislative power singly in the king , is a subversion of this whole government , since the essence of all governments consists in the subjects of the legislative authority , acts of violence or injustice , committed in the executive part , are such things that all princes being subject to them , the peace of mankind were very ill secured if it were not unlawful to resist upon any pretence taken from any ill administrations , in which as the law may be doubtful , so the facts may be uncertain , and at worst the publick peace must always be more valued than any private oppressions or injuries whatsoever . but the total subversion of a government , being so contrary to the trust that is given to the prince who ought to execute it , will put men upon uneasie and dangerous inquiries : which will turn little to the advantage of those who are driving matters to such a doubtful and desperate issue . viii . if there is any thing in which the exercise of the legislative power seems indispensable , it is in those oaths of allegeance and tests , that are thought necessary to qualifie men either to be admited to enjoy the protection of the law , or to bear a share in the government ; for in these the security of the government is chiefly concerned ; and therefore the total extinction of these , as it is not only a suspension of them , but a plain repealing of them , so it is a subverting of the whole foundation of our go-government : for the regulation that king and parliament had set both for the subjects having the protection of the state by the oath of allegeance , and for a share in the places of trust by the tests , is now pluckt up by the roots ; when it is declared , that these shall not at any time hereafter be required to be taken or subscribed by any persons whatsoever : fot it is plain , that this is no suspension of the law , but a formal repeal of it , in as plain words , as can be conceived . ix . his majesty says , that the benefit of the service of all his subjects is by the law of nature inseparably an nexed to and inherent in his sacred person . it is somewhat strange , that when so many laws , that we all know are suspended , the law of nature , which is so hard to be found out , should be clted ; but the penners of this declaration had best let that law lie forgotten among the rest ; and there is a scurvy paragraph in it concerning self-preservation , that is capable of very unacceptable glosses . it is hard to tell what section of the law of nature has markt either such a form of government , or such a family for it . and if his majesty renounces his pretensions to our allegeance as founded on the laws of england ; and betakes himself to this law of nature , he will perhaps find the counsel was a little too rash ; but to make the most that can be , the law of nations or nature does indeed allow the governors of all societies a power to serve themselves of every member of it in the cases of extream danger ; but no law of nature that has been yet heard of will conclude , that if by special laws , a sort of men have been disabled from all imployments , that a prince who at his coronation swore to maintaiu those laws , may at his pleasure extinguish all these disabilities . x. at the end of the declaration , as in a postscript , his majesty assures his subjects , that he will maintain them in their properties , as well in church and abbey lands , as other lands : but the chief of all their properties being the share that they have by their representatives in the legislative power ; this declaration , which breaks thro that , is no great evidence that the rest will be maintained : and to speak plainly , when a coronation oath is so little remembred , other promises must have a proportioned degree of credit given to them : as for the abbey lands , the keeping them from the church is according to the principles of that religion sacriledge ; and that is a mortal sin , and there can no absolution be given to any who continue in it : and so this promise being an obligation to maintain men in a mortal sin , is 〈◊〉 and void of it self : ch●rch lands are also according to the doctrine of their canonists , so immediately gods right , that the pope himself is the only administrator and dispeneer , but is not the master of them ; he can indeed make a truck for god , or let them so low , that god shall be an easie landlord : but he cannot alter god ' s property , nor translate the right that is in him to sacrilegious laymen and hereticks . xi . one of the effects of this declaration , will be the setting on foot a new run of adresses over the nation : for there is nothing how impudent and base soever , of which the abject flattery of a slavish spirit is not capable . it must be confest , to the reproach of the age , that all those strains of flattery among the romans , that tacitus sets forth with so much just scorn , are modest things , compared to what this nation has produced within these seven years : only if our flattery has come short of the refinedness of the romans , it has exceeded theirs as much in its loathed fulsomne●s : the late king set out a declaration , in which he gave the most solemn assurances possible of his adhering to the church of england , and to the religion established by law , and of his resolution to have frequent parliament ; upon which the whole nation fell as it were into raptures of joy and flattery : but tho he lived four years after that , he called no parliament , notwithstanding the law for trien●ial parliaments : and the manner of his death , and the papers printed after his death in his name , having sufficiently shewed , that he was equally sincere in both those assurances that he gave , as well in that relating to religion , as in that other relating to frequent parliaments ; yet upon his death a ●ew let of addresses appeared , in which all that flattery could invent was brought forth , in the commendations of a prince , to whose memory the greatest kindness can be done , is to forget him and because his present majesty upon his coming to the throne give some very general promise of maintaining the church of england , this was magnified in so extravagant a st●ain , as if it had been a securiry greater than any that the law could give : tho by the regard that the king has both to i● and to the laws , it appears that he is resolved to maintain both equally : since then the nation has already made it srlf sufficiently ridiculous both to the present and to all succeeding ages ; it is time that at last men should grow weary , and become ashamed of their folly. xii . the nonconformists are now invited to set an example to the rest : and they who have valued themselves hitherto upon their oppositian to popery , and that have quarrelled with the church of england , for some small approaches to it , in a few ceremonies , are now solicited to rejoyce , because the laws that secure us against it , are all plucked up : since they enjoy at present and during pleasure leave to meet together . it is natural for all men to love to be set at ease , especially in the matter , of their consciences ; but it is visible , that thos who allow them this favour , do it with no other design , but that under a pretence of a general toleration , they may introduce a religion which must persecute all equally : it is likewise apparent how much they are hated , and how much they have been persecuted by the instigation of those who now court them , and who have now no game that is more promising , than the engaging them and the church of england into new quarrels : and as for the promises now ma●e to them , it cannot be supposed that they will be more l●sting than those that were made some time ago to the church of england , who had both a better title in law and greater merit upon the crown to assure them that they should be well used than these can pretend to . the nation has scarce forgiven some of the church of england the persecution into which they have suffered themselves to be cosened ; tho now that they see popery barefaced , the stand that they have made , and the vigorous opposition that they have given to it , is that which makes all men willing to forget what is past , and raises again the glory of a church that was not a little stained by the indiscretion and weakness of those , that were too apt to believe and hope , and so suffered themselves to be made a property to those who would make them a sacrifice . the sufferings of the nonconformists , and the fn●y that the popish party expressed against them , had recommended them so much to the compassions of the nation , and had given them so just a pretension to favour in a better time , that it will look like a curse of god upon them , if a few men , whom the court has gained to betray them , can have such an ill influence upon them as to make them throw away all that merit , and those compassions which their sufferings have procured them ; and to go and court those who are only seemingly kind to them , that they may destroy both them and us . they must remember that as the church of england is the only establishment that our religion , has by law ; so it is the main body of the nation , and all the sects are but small and stragling parties : and if the legal settlement of the church is dissolved , and that body is once broken , these lesser bodies will be all at mercy : and it is an easy thing to define what the mercies of those church of rome are . xiii . but tho' it must be confessed , that the nonconformists are still under some temptations ▪ to receive every thing that gives them present ease , with a little too much kindness ; since they lie exposed to many severe laws , of which they have of late felt the weight very heavily , and as they are men , and some of them as ill natured men as other people , so it is no wonder if upon t he first surprises of the declaration , they are a little delighted , to see the church of england , after all its services and submissions to the court , so much mortified by it ; so that taking all together it will not be strange if they commit some follies upon this occasion . yet on the other hand it passes all imagination , to see some of the church of england . especially those whose natures we know are so particularly sharpned in the point of persecution , chiefly when it is levelled against the dissenters , rejoyce at this declaration , and make addresses upon it . it is hard to think that they have attained to so high a a pitch of christian charity , as to thank those who do now despitefully use them , and that as an earnest that within a little while they will persecute them . this will be an original , and a master-piece in flattery , which must needs draw the last degrees of contemption such as are capable of so abject and sordid a compliance , and that not only from all the true members of the church of england , but likewise from those of the church of rome it self ; for every man is apt to esteem an enemy that is brave even in his misfortunes , as much as he despises those whose minds sink with their condition , for what is it that these men would the king ? is it because he breaks those laws that are made in their favour , and for their protection : and is now striking at the root of all legal settlement that they have for their religion ? or is it because that at the same time that the king professes a religion that condemns his supremacy , yet he is not contented with the exercise of it as it is warranted by law , but carries it so far as to erect a court contrary to the express worps of a law so lately made : that court takes care to maintain a due proportion between their constitution and all their proceedings , that so all may be of a piece , and all equally contrary to law. they have suspended one bishop , only because he w●uld not do that which was not in his power to do : for since there is no extrajudiciary authority in england , a bishop can no more proceed to a sentence of suspension against a clergy-man without a tryal , and the hearing of parties , than a judge can give a sentence in his chamber without an indictment , a tryal , or a jury , and because one of the greatest bodies of england would not break their oaths , and obey a mandate that plainly contradicted them , we see to what a pitch this is like to be carried . i will not anticipate upon this illegal court , to tell what judgments are coming ; but without carrying our jealousies ton far , one may safely conclude , that they will never depart so far from their first institution , as to have any regard , either to our religion , or our laws , or liberties , in any thing they do . if all this were acted by a owed papists , as we are sure it is projected by such , there were nothing extraordinary in it : but that which carries our indig , nation a little too far to be easily governed , is to see some pretended protestants , and a few bishops , among those that are the fatal instruments of pulling down the church of england and that those mercenaries sacrifice their religion and their church to their ambition and interests ; this has such peculiar characters of misfortune upon it , that it seems it is not enough if we perish without pity , since we fall by that hand that we have so much supported and fortified , but we must become the scorn of all the world , since we have produced such an unnatural brood , that even while they are pretending to be the sons of the church of england , are cutting their mothers throat : and not content with iudas's crime , of saying , hail master , and kissing him , while they are betraying him into the hands of othnrs ; these carry their wickedness f●rth●r , and say . hail mother , and then they themselves murthe● her . if after all this we were called on to bear this as christians , and to suffer it as subjects , if we were required in patience to possess our own souls , and to be in charity with our enemies ; and which is more , to forgive our false brethren who add trea●●ery to their hatred ; the exhortation were seasonable , and indeed a little necessary : for humane nature cannot easily take down things of such a hard digestion : but to tell us that we must make addresses , and offer thanks for all this , is to insult a little too much upon us in our sufferings : and he that can believe that a dry and cautiously worded promise of maintaining the church of england , will be religiously observed after all that we have seen , and is upon that carried so far out of his wits as to address and give thanks , and will believe still , such a man has nothing to excuse him from believing transubstaetiation it self ; for it is plain that he can bring himself to believe even when the thing is contrary to the clearest evidence that his senses can give him . si populus hic vult decipi decipiatur . postscript . these reflections were writ soon after the declaration came to my hands , but the matter of them was so tender , and the conveyance of them to the press was so uneasie , that they appear now too late to have one effect that was designed by them , which was , the diverting men from making addresses upon it ; yet if what is here proposed makes men become so far wise as to be ashamed of what they have done , and is a means to keep them from carrying their courtship further than good words , this paper will not come too late . an answer to a paper , printed with allowance , entitled , a new test of the church of englands loyalty . . the accusing the church of england of want of loyalty , or the putting it to a new test , after so fresh a one , with relation to his majesty , argues a high degree of confidence in him who undertakes it . she knew well what were the doctrines and practices of those of the roman church , with relation to hereticks ; and yet she was so true to her loyalty , that she shut her eyes on all the temptations that so just a fear could raise in her ; and she set her self to support his majesties right of succession , with so much zeal , that she thereby not only put her self in the power of her enemies ; but she has also exposed her self to the scorn of those who insult over her misfortune . she lost the affections even of many of her own children ; who thought that her zeal for an interest , which was then so much decry'd , was a little too fervent : and all those who judged severely of the proceedings , thought that the opposition which she made to the side that then went so high , had more heat than decency in it . and indeed all this was so very extraordinary , that if she was not acted by a principle of conscience , she could make no excuse for her conduct . there appeared such peculiar marks of affection and heartiness , at every time that the duke was named , whether in drinking his health , or upon graver occasions , that it seemed affected : and when the late king himself ( whose word they took that he was a protestant ) was spoke of but coldly , the very name of the duke set her children all on fire : this made many conclude , that they were ready to sacrifice all to him , for indeed their behaviour was inflamed with so much heat , that the greater part of the nation be lieved they waited for a fit opportunity to declare themselves , faith in jesus christ was not a more frequent subject of the sermons of many , than loyalty ; and the right of the succession to the crown , the heat that appeared in the pulpit , and the learning that was in their books on these subjects , and the eloquent strains that were in their addresses , were all originals , and made the world conclude , that whatever might be laid to their charge , they should never be accused of any want of loyalty , at least in this king's time , while the remembrance of so signal a service was so fresh . when his majesty came to the crown , these men did so entirely depend on the promise that he made , to maintain the church of england , that the doubting of the performance appeared to them the worst sort of infidelity . they believed , that in his majesty , the hero , and the king , would be too strong for the papists , and when any one told them , how weak a tie the faith of a catholick to hereticks must needs be , they could not hearken to this with any patience : but looked on his majesties promise as a thing so sacred , that they imploy'd their interest to carry all elections of parliament-men , for those that were recommended by the court , with so much vigour , that it laid them open to much censure . in parliament they moved for no laws to secure their religion ; but assuring themselves , that honour was the kings idol , they laid hold on it , and fancied , that a publick reliance on his word , would give them an interest in his majesty , that was generous , and more suteable to the nobleness of a princely nature than any new laws could be : so that they acquieseed in it , and gave the king a vast revenue for life : in the rebellion that followed . they shewed with what zeal they adhered to his majesty , even against a pretender that declared for them . and in the session of parliament , which came after that , they shewed their disposition to assist the king with new supplies , and were willing to excuse and indemnifie all that was past ; only they desired with all possible modesty , that the laws which his majesty had both promised , and at his coronation had sworn to maintain might be ex●cuted . here is their crime , which has raised all this out-cry ; they did not move for the ex●cution of ●evere and penal laws but were willing to let those sleep , till it might appear by the behaviour of the papists , whether they might deserve that there should be any mitigation made of them in their favour . since that time , our church-men have have been constant in mixing their zeal for their religion against popery , with a zeal for loyalty against rebellions because they think these two are very well consistent one with another . it is true , they have generally expressed an unwillingness to part with the two tests ; because they have no mind to trust the keeping of their throats to those who they believe will cut them , and they have seen nothing 〈◊〉 the conduct of the papists , either ●●thin or without the kingdom , to make them grow weary of the laws for their sakes , and the same principle of common sense , which make it so hard for them to believe transubstantiation , makes them conclude that the author of this paper , and his friends , are no other , than what they hear , and see , and know them to be . ii. one instance in which the church of england shewed her submission to the conrt , was , that as soon as the nonconformists had drawn a new storm upon themselves , by their medling in the matter of exclusion , many of her zealous members went into that prosecution of them , which the court set on foot . with more heat , than was perhaps justifiable in it self , or reasonable in those circumstances ; but how censurable soever some angry men may be , it is somewhat strane to see those of the church of rome blame us for it , which has decreed some unrelenting severities against all that differ from her , and has enacted that not only in parliaments but even in general councils . it must needs sound odly to hear the sons of a church , that must destroy all others as soon as it can compass it , yet complain of the excesses of fines and ●mprisonments , that have been of late among ●s . but if this reproach seems a little strange when it is in the mouth of a papist , it is much more provoking ▪ when it comes from any of the court. were not all the orders 〈◊〉 late severity sent from thence ? did not the judges in every circuit , and the favourite justices of peace in every sessions , imploy all their eloquence on this subject ? the directions that were given to the justices and the grand iuries were all repeated aggravations of this matter : and a little ordinary lawyer , without any other visible merit , but an outragious fury in those matters , on which he has chiefly valued himself , was of a sudden taken in his majesties special favour , and raised up to the highest posts of the law. all these things , led s●me of our obedient clergy , to look on it as a piece of their duty to the king , to encourage that severity , of which the court seemed so fond , that almost all people thought , they had set it up for a maxime , from which they would never depart . i will not pretend to excuse all that has been done of late years : but it is certain , that the most crying seve●ities have been acted by persons that were raised up to be judges and magistrates for that very end : they were instructed , tr●sted and rewarded for it , both in the last and under the p●esent reign , church-preferments were distinguished rather as recompences of this devouring zeal , than of a real merit ; and men of more mode ate tempers were not only ill lookt at , but ill used . so that it is in it self very unreasonable to throw the load of the late rigour on the church of england , without distinction : but it is worse than in good manners it is fit to call it , if this reproach comes from the court. and it is somewhat unbecoming to see that ; which was set on at one time , disowned at another ; while yet he that was the chief instrument in it is still in so high a post ; and begins now to treat the men of the church of england , with the same brutal excesses , that he bestowed so lately and so liberally on the dissenters ; as if his design were to render himself equally odious to all mankind . iii. the church of england may justly expostulate when she is treated as seditinus ; after she has rendred the highest services to the civil authority , that any church now on earth has done , she has beaten down all the principles of rebellon , with more force and learning than any body of men has yet done ; and has run the hazard of enraging her enemies , and losing her friends , even for those , from whom the more learned of her members knew well what they might expect . and since our author likes the figure of a snake in ones bosom so well ; i could tell him , that according to the apo●ogue , we took up and sheltred an interest , that was almost dead , and by that warmth gave it life , which yet now with the snake in the bosom , is like to bite us to death . we do not say , that we are the only church that has the principles of loyalty , but this we may say , that we are the church in the world that carries them the highest ; as we know a church that of all others sinks them the lowest . we do not pretend that we are inerrable in this point , but acknowledge that some of our clergy miscarried in it upon king edwards death : yet at the same time others of our communion adhered more ftedily to their loyalty in favour of q. mary , that she did to the promises that she made to them . upon this subject our aurhor by his false quotation of history , forces me to set the reader right , which if it proves to the disadvantage of his cause , his friends may thank him for it . i will not enter into so tedious a digression , as the justifying queen . elizabeths being legitimate , and the throwing the bastardy on queen mary must carry me to ; this i will only say , that it was made out , that according to the best sort of arguments , used by the church of rome , i mean the constant tradition of all ages , king henry the eighth marrying with queen catherine , was inces●uous , and by consequence q. mary was the bastard , ●●d queen elizabeth was the legitimate issue . but our author not satisfied with defaming queen elizabeth , tells us , that the church of england was no sooner set up by her , than she enacted those bloody cannibal laws , to hang , draw and quarter the priests of the living god : but since these laws disturb him so much , what does he think of the laws of burning the poor servants of the living god , because they cannot give divine wership to that which they believe to be only a piece of bread ? the representation he gives of this part of our history , is so false , that tho upon q. elizabeths coming to the crown , there were many complaints exhibited of the illegal violences that bonner and other butchers had committed , yet all these were stifled , and no penal laws were enacted against those of that religion . the popish clergy were indeed turned out ; but they were well used , and had pensions assigned them ; so ready was the queen and our church to forgive what was past , and to shew all gentleness for the future . during the first thirteen years of her reign , matter went on calmly , without any sort of severity on the account of religion . but then the restless spirit of that party , began to throw the nation into violent convulsions . the pope deposed the queen , and one of the party had the impudence to post up the bull in london ; upon this followed several rebellions , both in england and ireland , and the papists of both kingdoms entred into confederacies with the king of spain and the court of rome the preists disposed all the people that depended on them , to submit to the popes authority in that disposition , and to reject the queens ; these endeavours , besides open rebelion , produced many secret practices against her life . all these things gave the rise to the severe laws , which began not to be enacted before the twentieth year of her raign . a war was formed by the bull of deposition , between the queen and the court of rome , so it was a necessary piece of precaution , to decleare all those to be traitors who were the missionaries of that authority which had stript the queen of hers : yet those laws were not executed upon some secular priests who had the honesty to condemn the deposing doctrine . as f●r the unhappy death of the queen of scotland , it was brought on by the wicked practices of her own party , who fatally involved her in some of them ; she was but a subject here in england ; and if the queen took a more violent way , than was decent for her own security , here was no disloyalty nor rebellion in the church of england , which owed her no sort of allegeance . iv. i do not pretend that the church of england has any great cause to value her self upon her fidelity to king charles the first , tho● our author would have it pass for the only thing of which she can boast : for i confess , the cause of the church was so twi●●ed with the king`s , that interest and duty went together : tho` i will not go so far as our author , who says , that the lavs of nature dictates to every individual to fight in his own defence : this is too bold a thing to be delivered so crudely at this time . the laws of nature are perpetual , can never be cancelled by any special law : so if these gentlemen own so freely , that this is a law of nature , they had best take care not to provoke nature too much , lest she fly to the reliefe that this law may give her , unless she is restrained by the loyalty of our church our author values his party much upon their loyalty to king charles the first : but i must take the liberty to ask him of what religion were the irish rebells ; and what sort of loyalty was it , that they shewed either in the first massacre , or in the progress of that rebellion ? their messages to the pope , to the court of france , and to the duke of larrain , offering themselves to any of these , that would have undertaken to protect them , are acts of loyalty which the church of england is no ways in clined to follow : and the authentical proofs of these things are ready to be produced . nor need i add to this , the hard terms that they offered to the king , and their ill usage of those whom he imployed . i could likewise repress the insolence of this writer , by telling him of the slavish submissions thattheir party made to cromwel , both father and son . as for their adhering to king charles the first , there is a peculiar boldness in our authors a●●ert●on , who says , that they had no hope nor interest in that cause : the state of that court is not so quite forgot , but that we do well remember what credit the queen had with the king , and what hopes she gave the party ; yet they did not so entirely espouse the kings cause , but that they had likewise a flying squadron in the parliaments army , how ●oldly soever this may be denyed by our author , for this i will give him a proof , that is beyond exception , in a declaration of that kings , sent to the kingdom of scotland , baring date the of april . which is printed over and over again , and as an author that writes the history of the late wars , had assured us the clean draught of it , corrected in some places with the king 's own hand , is yet extant : so that it cannot be pretended , that this was only a bold assertion of some of the kings ministers , that might be ill affected to their party . in that declaration the king studied to possess his subjects of scotland with the justice of his cause , and among other things , to clear himself of that imputation that he had an army of papists about him , after many things said on that head , these words are added : great numbers of that religion have been with great alac●ity entertained in that rebellious army against us : and others have been seduced , to whom we had formerly denyed imployments ; as appears by the examination of many prisoners , of whom we have taken twenty and thirty at a time of one troop or company of that religion . i hope our author will not have the impudence to dispute the credit that is due to this testimony : but no discoveries , how evident soever they may be , can affect some sort of men ; that have a secret against bl●shing . v. our author exhorts us , to charge our principles of loyalty , and to take example of our catholick neighbours , how to behave our selves towards a prince , that is not of our perswasion : but would he have us learn of our ●ish neighbours , to cut our fellow subjects throats ; and rebel against our king , because he is of another religion ? for that is the freshest example that any of our catholick neighbours have set us : and therefore i do not look so far back , as to the gunpowder-plot , or the league of france in the last age. he reproabhes us for failing in our fidelity to our king. but in this matter we appeal to god , angels and men ; and in particular to his majesty : let our enemies shew any one point of our duty , in which we have failed : for as we cannot be charged for having preacht any seditious doctrine , so we are not wanting in the preaching of the duties of loyalty , even when we see what they are like to cost us . the point which he singles out is , that we have failed in that grateful return , that we owed his majesty for his promise , of maintaining our church as it is established by law ; since upon that we ought to have repealed the sanguinary laws , and the late impious tests : the former being enacted to maintain the usurpation of queen elizabeth ; and the other being contrived to exclude the present king. we have not failed to pay all the gratitude and duty that was possible , in return to his majesties promise ; which we have carried so far , that we are become the object even of our enemies scorn by it . with all humility be it said , that if his majesty had promised us a farther degree of his favour , than that of which the law had assuered us , it might have been expected , that our return should have a degree of obedience beyond that which was required by law ; so that the return of the obedience injoyned by law , answers a promise of a protection according to law : yet we carried this matter farther ; for as was set forth in the beginning of this paper , we went on in so high a pace of compliance and confidence , that we drew the censuers of the whole nation on us : nor could any jealousies or fears give us the least apprehensions , tell we were so hard pressed in matters of religion , that we conld be no longer silent ; the same apostle that taught us to honour the king , said likewise , that we must obey god rather than man. our author knows the history of our laws ill ; for besides wha has been allready said , touching the laws made by queen elizabeth , the severest of our penall laws , and that which troubles him and his friends most , was past by k. iames after the gunpowder-plot ; a provocation thut might have well justified even greater severities . but tho our author may hope to impose on an ignorant reader , who may be apt to believe implicity , what he says concerning the laws of the last age , yet it was too hold for him to assert , that the tests , which are so lately made , were contrived to exclude the present king : when there was not a thought of exclusion many years after the first was made , and the duke was accepted out of the second by a special proviso . but these gentlemen will do well never to mention the exclusion ; for every time that it is named , it will make people call to mind , the service that the church of england did in that matter , and that will carry with it a reproach of ingratitude that needs not be aggravated . he also confounds the two tests , as if that for publick imployments , contained in it a declaration of the kings being an idolater , or as he makes it , a pagan : which is not at all in it , but in the other for the members of parliament , in which there is indeed a declaration , that the church of rome is guilty of idolatry ; which is done in general terms , without applying it to his majesty , as our author does : upon this he would infer , that his majesty is not safe till the tests are taken away : but we have given such evidences of our loyalty , that we have plainly shewed this to be false , since we do openly declare , that our duty to the king is not founded on his being of this or that religion ; so that his majesty has a full security from our principles , tho the tests contiune , since there is no reason that we , who did run the hazard of being ruined by the excluders , when the tide was so strong against us , would fail his majesty now , when our interest and duty are joyned together : but if the tests are taken away , it is certain that we can have no severity any longer ; for we shall be then laid open to the violence of such restless and ill-natured men , as the author of this pap●r and his brethren are . vi. the same reason that made our saviour refuse to throw himself down from the roof of the temple , when the devil tempted him to it , in the vain confidence , that angels must be assistant to him to preserve him , holds good in our case . our saviour said , thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god. and we dare not trust our selves to the faith and to the mercies of a society , that is but too well known to the world , to pretend , that we should pull down our pales , to let in such wolves among us . god and the laws hath given us a legal security , a●d his majesty has promised to maintain us in it : and we think it argues no distrust , either of god , or the truth of our religion , to say , that we cannot by any act of our own , lay our selves open , and throw away that defenee . nor would we willingly expose his majesty to the unwearied solicitations of a sort of men , who , if we may judge of that which is to come , by that which is past , would give him no rest , if once the restraints of law were taken off , but would drive matters to those extremities , to which we see their natures carry them headlong . vii , the last paragraph is a strain worchy of that school that bred our author ; he says , his majesty may withdraw his royal protection from the church of england which was promised her , upon the account of her constant fidelity , and he brings no other proof to confirm so bold an assertion but a false axiome of that despised philosophy , in which he was bred : cessante causa tollitur effectus this is indeed such an lndignity to his majesty , that i presume to say it with all humble reverence , these are the last persons whom he ought to pardon , that have the boldnels to touch so sacred a point as the faith of a prince , which is the chief security of government , and the foundation of all the confidence that a prince can promise himself from his people , and which , once blasted , can never be recovered : equivocations may be both taught and practised with less danger by an order that has little credit to lose ; but nothing can shike thrones so much , as such treacherous maxims i must also ask our author , in what point of fidelity has our church failed so far , as to make her forfeit her title to his majesties promises ? for as he himself has stated this matter , it comes all to this . the king promised that he would maintain the church of england as established by law. upon which in gratitude he says , that the church of england was bound to throw up the chief security that she had in her establishment by law ; which is , that all who are intrusted either with the legislative or the executive parts of our government , must be of her communion ; and if the church of england is not so tame and so submissive , as to part with this , then the king is free from his promise , and may withdraw his royal protection ; though i must crave leave to tell him , that the laws gave the church of england a right to that protection , whether his majesty had promised it or not . of all the maxims in the world , there is none more hurtful to the government , in our present circumstances , than the saying , that the kings promises and the peoples fidelity ought to be reciprocal ; and that a failu●e in the one , cuts off the other : for by a very natural consequence the subject may likewise say , that their oaths of allegeance being founded on the assurance of his majesties protection , the one binds no longer than the othir is observed : and the inferences that may be drawn from hence will be very terrible , if the loyalty of the sos mueh decryed church of england , does not put a stop to them . a letter , containing some remarks on the two papers , writ by his late mai●sty king charles the second , concerning religion . sir , i thank you for the two royal papers , that you have sent me : i had heard of them before , but now we have them to well t●ested , that there is no hazard of being deceive by a false copy : you expect that in return , i should let you know , what impression they have made upon me . i pay all the reverence that is due to a crownd head , even in ashes ; to which i will never be wanting : far less am i capable of suspecting the royal attestation that accompanies them ; of the truth of which i take it for granted no man doubts ; but i must crave leave to tell you , that i am confident , the late king only copied them , and that they are not of his composing : for as they have nothing of that free air , with which he expressed himself ; so there is a contexture in them , that does not look like a prince ; and tho beginning of the first shewes it was the effect of a conversation , and was to be communicated to another : so that i am apt to think they were composed by another , and were so well relished by the late king , that he thought fit to keep them , in order to his examining them more particularly : and that he was prevailed with to copy them lest a paper of that nature might have been made a crime , if it had been found about him writen by another hand : and i could name one or two persons , who as they were able enough to compose such papers , so had power enough over his spirit to engage him to copy them , and to put themselves out of danger by restoring the original . you ought to address your self to the learned divines of our church , for an answer to such things in them as puzzle you , and not to one that has not the honour to be of that body , and that has now carried a sword for some time , and imploys the leasure that at any time he enjoyes , rather in philosophical and mathematical enquiries than in matters of controversie . there is indeed one consideration that determined me more easily to comply with your desires , which is , my having had the honour to discourse copiously of those matters with the late king himself : and he having proposed to me some of the particulars that i find in those papers , and i having said several things to him , in answer to those heads , which he offered to me only as objections , with which he seemed fu●ly satisfied , i am the more willing to communicate to you , that which i took the liberty to lay before his late majesty on several occasions : the particulars on which he insisted in discourse with me , were the uselessness of a law without a judge , and the necessity of an infallible tribunal to determine controversies to which he added , the many sects that were in england , which seemed to be a necessary consequence of the liberty that every one took to interpret the scriptures : and he often repeated that of the church of englands arguing , from the obligation to obey the church , against the sectaries , which he thought was of no force , unless they allowed more authority to the church then they seemed willing to admit , in their disputes with this church of rome . but upon the whole matter i will offer you some reflections , that will , i hope , be of as great weight with you , as they are with my self . i. all arguments that prove upon such general considerations , that there ought to be an infallible judge named by christ and clothed with his authority , signify nothing , unless it can be shewed us , in what texts of scripture that ●omination is to be found ; and till that is shewed , they are only arguments brought to prove that christ ought to have done somewhat that he has not done . so these are in effect so many arguments against christ , unless it appears that he has authorised such a judge : therefore the right way to end this dispute , is , to shew where such a constitution is a●thorised : so that the most that can be made of this is , that it amounts to a favourable presumption . ii. it is a very unreasonable thing for us to form presumptions , of what is , or ought to be , from inconveniences that do arise , in case that such things are no●●● for we may carry this so far , that it will not be easie to stop it . it seems more sutable to the infinite goodness of god , to communicate the knowledge of himself to all mankind , and to furnish every man with such assistances as will certainly prevail over him . it seems also reasonable to think , that so perfect a saviour as jesus christ was , should have shewed us a certain way , and yet confident with the free use of our faculties , of avoiding all sin : nor is it very easy to imagine , that it should be a reproach on his g●spel , if there is not an infallible preserv●tive against errour , when it is acknowledged , that there is no infallible prese●vative against sin : for it is certain , that the one damns us more infallibly , than the other . iii. since presumptions are so much insisted on , to prove what things must be appointed by christ ; it is to be considered , that it is also a reasonable presumption , that if such a court was appointed by him , it must be done in such plain terms that there can be no room to question the meaning of them : and since this is the ●●●ge upon which all other matters turn , it ought to be expressed so particularly , in whom it is vested , that there should be no occasion given to dispute , whether it is in one man or in a body ; and if in a body , whether in the majority , or in the two thirds , or in the whole body ●●animously agreeing ; in short , the chief thing in all governments being the nature a●d power of the judges , those are always distinctly specified ; and therefore if these things are not specified in the scriptures ; it is at least a strong presumption , that christ did not intend to authorise s●ch judges . iv. there were several controve●sies raised among the churches to which the apostles writ , as appears by the epistles to the romans , corinthians , ga●atians and colostians , yet the apostles ●ever make use of those passages that are pretended for this authority to put an end to these controversies ; which is a shrewd presumption , that they did not understand them in that selfe in which the church of rome does now take them . nor does st. paul in the directions that he gives to church-men in his epistles to timothy and titus , reckon this of submitting to the directions of the church for one , which he could not have omitted , if this be the tr●e meaning of those disputed passages : and yet he has not one w●rd sounding that way , which is very diffe●ent from the direction which one possessed with the present , view that the church of rome has of this ma●er must needs have given . v. there are some things very expresly taught in the n. testament , such as the rules of a good life , the vse of the sacraments , the addressing our selves to god , for mercy and grace , thro the sacrifice that christ offered for us on the cross , and the worshipping him 〈◊〉 god , the death , resurrection and ascention of iesus christ , the resurrection of our bodies and life everlasting : by which it is apparent : 〈◊〉 we are set beyond doubt in those matters ; if then there are other passages more obscure concerning other matt●rs , we must conclude , that th●● are not of that consequence , other wise they would have been a● plainly re●ealed as others are ; but above all , if the authority of the church is delivered to us in disputable terms , that is a just prejudice against it , since it is a thing of such consefluence , that ●t ought to have been revealed in a way so very clear and past all dispute . vi. if it is a presumption for particular persons to judge concerning religion , which must be still referred to the priests and other guides in sacred matters , this is a good argument to oblige all nations to continue in the established religion , whatever it may happen to be ; and above all others , it was a convincing argument in the mouths of the iews against our saviour . he pretended to be the messias , and proved it both by the prophesies that were accomplished in him , and by the miracles that he wrought : as for the prophesies , the reasons urged by the church of rome will conclude much stronger , that such dark passag●s as those of the prophets were , ought not to be interpreted by particular persons , but that the expos●ion of these must be referred to the priests and sanbedrin , it being expresly provided in their law ( deut. . ) that when controversies arose , concerning any cause that was too intricate , they were to go to the place which god should choose , and to the priests of the tribe of levi , and to the iudge in those days , and that they were to declare what was right , and to their d●cision all were obliged to submit , under pain of death : so that by this it appears , that the priests in the iewish religion were authorised in so extraordinary a manner , that i dare say , the church of rome would not wish for a more formal testimony on her behalf : as f●r our saviours miracles , these were not sufficient neither , unless his doctrine was first found to be good : since moses had expresly warned the people ( deut. . . ) that if a prophet came and taught them to follow after other gods , they were not to obey him . tho he wrought miracles to prove his mission , but were to put him to death : so a iew saying , that christ , by making himself one with his father , brought in thk worship of another god , might well pretend that he was not oblig'd to yield to the authority of our saviours miracles , without taking cognisance of his doctrine , and of the prophesies concerning the messias , and in a word , of the whole matter . so that , if these reasonings are now good against the reformation , they were as strong in the mouths of the iews against our saviour : and form hence we see , that the authority that seems to be given by moses to the priests , must be understood with some restrictions ; since we not only find the prophets , and ieremy in particular , opposing themselves to the whole body of them , but we see likewise , that for some considerable time before our saviour's d●ys not only many ill-grounded traditions had got in among them , by which the v●go● of the moral law was much enervated , but likewise they were universally possessed with a selfe notion of their messias ; so that even the apostles themselves had not quite shaken off those prejudices at the time of our saviour's ascention . so that here a church , that was still the church of god , that had the appointed means of the expiations of their sins , by their sacrifices and washings , as well as by their circumcision , was yet under great and fatal errors , from which particular persons had no way to extricate themselves , but by examining the doctrine and texts of scripture , and by judging of them according to the evidence of truth , and the force and freedom of their faculties . vii . it seems evident , that the passage ( tell the church ) belongs only to the reconciling of differences : that of binding and lo●sing , according to the use of those terms among the iews signifies only an authority that was given to the apostles , of giving precepts , by which men were to be obliged to such duties , or set at liberty from them : and ( the gates of hell not prevailing against the church ) signifies only , that the christian religion was never to come to an end , or to perish : and that of ( christs being with the apostles to the end of the world ) imports only a special conduct and protection which the church may always expect , but as the promise , i will not leave ●●ee nor forsake thee ; that belongs to every christian , does not import an infallibility : no more does the other , and for those passages concerning ( the spirit of god that searches all things ) it is plain , that in them st. paul is treating of the divine inspiration , by which the christian religion was then opened to the world , which he sets in opposition to the wisdom or philosophy of the greeks ; so that as all those passages come short of proving that for which they are alledged , it must at last be acknowledged , that they have not an evidence great enough to prove so important a truth , as some would evince by them ; since 't is a matter of such vast consequence , that the proofs for it must have an undeniable evidence . viii . in the matters of religion two things are to be considered first , the account that we must give to god , and the rewards that we expect from him : and in this every man must answer for the sincerity of his heart , in examining divine matters , and the following what ( upon the best enquiries that one could make ) appeared to be 〈◊〉 : and with relation to this , there is no need of a judge : for in that great day every one must answer to god according to the talents that he had , and all will be saved according to their sincerity ; and with relation to that judgment , there is no need of any other judge but god. a second view of religion , is as it is a body united together , and by consequence brought under some regulation : and as in all states , there are subalterne judges , in whose decisions all must at least acquiesce , tho they are not infallible , there being still a sort of an apperl to be made to the sovereign or the supream legislative body ; so the church has a subalterne jurisdiction , but as the authority of inferiour judges is still regulated , and none but the legislators themselves have an authority equal to the law ; so it is not necessary for the preservation of peace and order , that the decisions of the church should be infallible , or of equal authority with the scriptures . if judges do so manifestly abuse their authority , that they fall into rebellon and treason , the subjects are no more bound to consider them ; but are obliged to resist them , and to maintain their obedience to their soveraign ; tho in other matters their judgment must take place , till they are reversed by the sovereign . the case of religion being then this , that iesus christ is the sovereign of the church ; the assembly of the pastors is only a subalterne judge : if they manifestly oppose themselves to the screptures , which is the law of christians , particular persons may be supposed as competent iudges of that , as in civil matters they may be of the rebellion of the judges , and in that case they are bound still to maintain their obedience to jesus christ. in matters indifferent , christians are bound , for the preservation of peace & unity , to acquiesce in the decisions of the church , and in matters justly doubtful , or of small consequence , tho they are convinced that the pastors have erred , yet they are obliged to be silent , and to bear tolerable things rather than make a breach but if it is visible , that the pastors do rebel against the sovereign of the church , i mean christ , the people may put in their appeal to that great judge , and there it must lie . if the church did use this authority with due discretion , and the people followed the rules that i have named with humility and modesty , there would be no great danger of many divisions ; but this is the great secret of the providence of god , that men are still men , and both pastors and people mix their passions and interests so with matters of religion , that as there is a great deal of sin and vice still in the world , so that appears in the matters of religion as well as in other things : but the ill consequences of this ; tho they are bad enough , yet are not equal effects that ignorant superstition , and obedient zeal have produced in the world , witness the rebellions and wars lot establishing the worship of images ; the croissades against the saracens in which many millions were lost ; those against hereticks , and princes deposed by popes , which lasted for some ages ; and the massacre of paris , with the butcheries of the duke of alv●in the last age , and that of ireland in this : which are , i suppose far greater misch●●●s that any can be imagined to 〈◊〉 out of a small divers●● of opinions : and the present 〈◊〉 of this church , notwithstanding all those unhappy rents that are in it , is a much more desirable thing , than the gross ignorance and blind superstition that reigns in italy and spain at this day . ix . all these reasonings concerning the infallibility of the church signify nothing , unless we can certainly know , whither we must go for this decision : for while one party shewes us , that it must be in the pope , or is no where , and another party sayes it cannot be in the pope , because as many popes have erred , so this is a doctrine that was not known in the church for a thousand years , and that has been disputed ever since it was first asserted , we are in the right to believe both sides ; first , that if it is not in the pope , it is no where ; and than , that certainly it is not in the pope ; and it is very incongruous to say , that there is an insallible authority in the church , and that yet it is not certain where one must seek for it ; for the one ought to be as clear as the other , and it is also plain , that what primacy so ever st. peter may be supposed to have had , the scripture sayes not one word of his successors at rome ; so at l●st this is not so clear , as a matter of this consequence must have been , if christ had intended to have lodged such an authority in that see. x. it is no less incongruous to say , that this infallibility is in a general council : for it must be somewhere else , otherwise it will return only to the church by some starts , and after long intervals : and as it was not in the church , for the first years , so it has not been in the church these last years . it is plain also , that there is no regulation given in the scriptures ; concerning this great assembly , who have a right to come and vote , and what forfeit this right ▪ and what number must concur in 〈…〉 infalli●●lity of the judgment . it is certain , there was never a general council of all the pastors of the church : for those of which we have the acts , were only the councils of the roman empire , but for those churches , that were in the south of africk , or the eastern parts of asia , beyond the bounds of the roman empire , as they could not be summoned by the emperours authority , so it is certain none of them were present : unless one or two of persia at nice , which perhaps was a corner of persia belonging to the empire ; and unless it can be proved , that the pope has an absolute authority to cut off whole churches from their right of coming to councils , there has been no general council these last years in the world , ever since the bishops of rome have excommunicated all the greek churches upon such trifling reasons , that their own writers are n●w ashmed of them ; and i will ask no more of a man of a competent understanding , to satisfy him that the council of trent was no general council , acting in that freedom that became bishops , than that he will be at the pains to read card. pallavicins history of that council . xi . if it is said , that this infallibility is to be sought for in the tradition of the doctrine in all ages , and that every particular person must examine this : here is a sea before him , and instead of examining the small book of the n. testament , he is involved in a study that must cost a man an age to go thro it ; and many of the ages , thro which he carries this enquiry , are so dark , and have produced so few writers , at least so few are preserved to our dayes , that it is not possible to find out their belief . we find also traditions have varied so much that it is hard to say that there is much weight to be laid on this way of conveyance . a tradition concerning matters of fact that a●l people see 〈◊〉 less apt to fail than a tradition of points of speculation : and yet we see very ne●r the age of the apostles , contrary traditions touching the observation of easter , from which we must conclude , that either the matter of fact of one side , or the other , as it was handed down , was not true , or at least that it was not rightly understood . a tradition concerning the use of the sacraments , being a visible thing , is more likely to be exact , than a speculation concerning their nature ; and yet we find a tradition of giving infants the communion , grounded on the indispensible necessity of the sacrament , continued . years in the church . a tradition on which the christians founded their joy and hope , is less like to be changed , than a more remote speculation , and yet the first writers of the christian religion had a tradition handed down to them by those who saw the apostles , of the reign of christ for a thousand years upon earth ; and if those who had matters at second hand from the apostles , could be thus mistaken , it is more reasonable to apprehend greater errors at such a distance . a tradition concerning the book of the scriptures is more like to be exact , than the exposition of some passages in it ; and yet we find the church did unaimously bel●eve the translation of the . interpreters to have been the effect of a miraculous inspiration . till s. ierome examined this matter better , and made a new translation from the hebrew copies . but which is more 〈◊〉 all the rest , it seems plain , that the fathers before the council of nice believed the divinity of the son of god to be in some sort inferiour to that of the father , and for some ages after the council of nice , they believed them indeed both equal , but they considered these as two different beings , and only one in essence , as , three men have the same humane nature in common among them ; and that as one candle lights another , so the one flowed from another ; and after the fifth century the doctrine of one invidual essence was received . if you will be farther informed concerning this , father peta● will satisfie you as to the first period before the council of nice , and the learned dr. cudworth as to the second . in all which particulars it appears , how variable a thing tradition is . and upon the whole matter , the examining tradition thus , is still a searching among books , and here is no living judge . xii . if then ●he authority that must decide controversies , lies in the body of the pastors scattered over the world , which is the last retrenchment , here as many and as great scruples will arise , as we fo●nd in any of the former heads . two difficulties appear at first view , the one is , how can we be assured that the present pastors of the church are derived in a just succession from the apostles : there are no registers extant that prove this : so that we have nothing for it but some histories , that are so carelesly writ , that we find many mistakes in them in other matter ; and they are so differen● in the very first links of that chain , that immediately succeeded the apost●es that the utmost can be made of this is , that here is an historical religion somewhat doubtful ; but here is nothing to found our faith on : so that if a succession from the apostles tim●s , is necessary to the constitution of that church , to which we must submit our selves , we know not where to find it : besides that , the d●ctrine of the necessary of the intention of the minister to the validity of a sacrament , throws us into inextricable difficulties . i know they generally say , that by the intention they do not mean the inward acts of the minister of the sacrament , but only that it must appear by his outward deportment , that he is in earnest going about a sacrament , aud not doing a thing in j●st ; and this appeared so reasonable to me , that i was ●orry to find our divines urge it too much : till turning over the rubricks that are at the beginning of the m●ssal , i found upon the head of the intention of the minister , that if a priest has a number of hosti●● before him to be consecrated , and intends to consecrate them all , except one , in that case that vagrant exception falls upon them all : it not being affixed to any one , and it is defined that he consecrates none at all . here it is plain , that the secret acts of a priest can defeat the sacrament : so this overthrows all certainty concerning a succession : but besides all this , we are sure , that the greek churches have a much more uncontested succession than the latines : so that a succession cannot direct us . and if it is necessary to seek out the doctrines that are universally received , this is not possible for a private man to know . so that in ignorant countries , where there is little study , the people have no other certainty concerning their religion , but what they take from their curate and confessor : since they cannot examine what is generally recei●ed . so that it must be confessed that all the arguments that are brought for the necessity of a constant infallible iudge , turn against all those of the church of rome , that do not acknowledge the infallibility of the pope : for if he is not infallible , they have no other iudge , that can pretend to it . it were also easie to shew , that some doctrins have been ●s un●versally received in some ages , as they have been rejected in others ; which shews , that the doctrine of the present church is not always a sure measure . for five ages together , the doctrine of the popes power to depose heretical princes was received without the least opposition : and this cannot be doubted by any that knows what has been the state of the church since the end of the eleventh century : and yet i believe few princes would allow this , notwithstanding all the concurring authority of so many ages to fortifie it . i could carry this into a great many other instances , but i single out this because it is a point in which princes are naturally extream sensible . upon the whole matter , it can never enter into my mind , that god , who has made man a creature , that naturally enquires and reasons , and that feels as sensible a pleasure when he can give himself a good account of his actions , as one that sees , does perceive in comparison to a blind man that is led about ; and that this god that has also made religion on design to perfect this humane nature , and to raise it to the utmost height to which it can arrive , has contrived it to be dark , and to be so much beyond the penetration of our faculties , that we cannot find out his mind in those things that are necessary for our salvation : and that the scriptures , that were writ by plain men , in a very familiar stile , and addrest without any discrimination to the vulgar , should become such an unintelligible book in these ages , that we must have an infallible iudge to expound it : and when i see not only popes , but even some bodies that pass for general councils , have so expounded many passages of it , and have wrested them so visibly , that none of the modern writers of that church pretend to excuse it , i say i must freely own to you , that when i find that i need a commentory on dark passages , these will be the last persons to whom i will address my self for it . thus you see how fully i have opened my mind to you in this matter ; i have gone over a great deal of ground in as few words as is possible , because hints i know are enough for you ; i thank god , these considerations do fully satisfie me , and i will be infinitely joyed , if they have the same effect on you . i am yours . this letter came to london with the return of the first post after his late majesties papers were sent into the countrey ; some that saw it , liked it well , and wished it to have it publick , and the rather , because the writer did not so entirely confine himself to the reasons that were in those papers , but took the whole controversy to task in a little compass , and yet with a great variety of reflections . and this way of examining the whole matter , without following those papers word for word , or the finding more fault than the common concern of this cause required , seemed more agreeing to the respect that is due to the dead , and more particularly to the memory of so great a prince ; but other considerations made it not so easie nor so adviseable to procure a license for the printing this letter , it has been kept in private hands till now : those who have boasted much of the shortness of the late kings papers , and of the length of the answers that have been made to them , will not find so great a disproportion between them and this answer to them . the citation of gilbert burnet , d. d. to answer in scotland on the th . june o'd stile , for high treason : together with his answer ; and three letters , wri● by him , upon that subject , to the right honourable the earl of midletoune , his majesties secretary of state. i know the disadvantages of pleading ones innocence , especially when he is prosecuted at the suit of his natural prince , to whom he owes so profound a duty : and this has kept me so long in a respectful silence , after i had seen my name in so many gazettes , aspersed with the blackest of all crimes : but there is both a time to be silent , and a time to speak : and as hitherto i have kept my self within the bounds of the one , so i do now take the liberty which the other allows me : but i was not hitherto silent where i ought to speak ; for i have made many humble addresses to his majesty by the earl of midletoune his secretary of state ; hoping that my innocence , joyned with my must humble duty , would have broke through all those prejudices and false informations , with which my enemies had possessed his majesty against me . upon the first notice that i had of his majesties having writ to the privy-council in scotland , ordering process to be issued out against me for high-treason , i writ my first letter : in that i could enter into no particulars ; for in the advertisement that was sent me , it was said , that there was no special matter laid to my charge in the king's letter . some days after that , i received a copy of my citation , to which i presently writ an answer , and sent that with my second letter to the same noble person ; to both these letters i received no answer : but i was advertised , that some exceptions were taken at some words in my first letter , and this led me to write my third letter , for explaining and justifying those words . i have kept my self thus within all those bounds that i thought my duty set me ; and am not a little troubled , that i am now forced to speak for my self . i have delayed doing it as long as i had any reason to hope , that my justification of my self was like to produce the effect which i most humbly desired , and which i expected : but now the day of my appearance being come , in which it is probable sentence will pass against me , since i have had no intimations given me to the contrary , i hope it will not shew either the least impatience , or the want of that submission , which i have on all occasions payed to every thing that comes to me from that authority , under which god had placed me that i publish these papers for my own vindication . if it had been only in defence of my life and reputation , that i had been led to appear in such a manner , i could have more easily rest●ained my self : and have lest these to be sacrifices to the unjust rage of those , who have so far prevailed on his majesties readiness to believe them , as to drive this matter so far : but the honour of that holy religion which i profess , and the regard i bear to that sacred function to which i am dedicated , lay such obligations on me , that i am determined by them , to declare my innocence to the world , which i intend to do more copiously within a little while : but in the mean time , i hope the following papers will serve to shew how clear i am of all the matters that are laid to my charge . there is one particular , which is come to my knowledge since i writ my answer , that will yet more evidently discover my innocence : i have receiv'd certain informations from england , that both sir iohn cochran and his son , and mr. ba●ter , have declared upon many occasions , and to many persons , that they cannot imagin how they come to be cited as witnesses against me ; that they can scarce believe it can be true ; since they know nothing that can be any way to my prejudice ; and that they must clear me of all the matters objected to me in this citation , and the two witnesses , that as it seems are citkd for that article that relates to holland , have solemnly declared , that they know nothing relating to me , or to the matters specified in this citation , which one of them has signifyed to my self in a letter under his hand ; so that the falsehood of this accusation is so evident , that it serves to discover the folly , as well as the impudence of those who have contrived it . but it is yet too early to set on a persecution for matters of religion , therefore crimes against the state must be pretended , and fastned on those whom these men intend to destroy . and as foul and black scandals are invented to defame me , and put in the mouths of those who are ready to believe and report every thing that may disgrace me , without considering that they do a thing that is as unbecoming ●hem , as it is base and injust in it self , so all arts are used to destroy me ; but i trust to the protection of that great god , who sees the injustice that is done me , and who will in his own time and way vindicate my innocence : and under him i trust to the protection of the high and mighty states of holland and west-friesland . my first letter to the earl of midletoune . may it please your lordship , the affairs of these provinces belonging to your lordship's share in the ministry , leads me to make this most humble address to you , and by your lordship to his majesty . i have received advertisements from scotland , that the king has writ to the privy council , ordering me to be proceeded against for high treason against his person and government : and that pursuant to this , the king's advocate has cited me to appear there ; if any thing in this world can surprise or disorder me , this must needs do it : for as few have writ more , and preacht oftner against all so●ts of treasonable doctrines and practices than my self , so all the discoveries that have been made of late years , have been so far from aspersing me , that though there has been disposition enough to find fault with me , yet there has not been matter given so much as for an examination . it is now thirteen years since i came out of scotland : and for these last five years , i have not so much as mentioned the commonest news in any letter i have writ to any in that kingdom : i do not mention acts of indemnity , because i kn●w that i do not need the benefit of them . i went out of england by his majesties approbation : and i have stayed out of it because his majesty expres●ed his d●slike of my returning to it . i am now upon the point of marrying in this countrey , and am naturalized by the sta●es of holland : but though by this , during my stay here , my allegiance is translated from his majesty to the soveraignty of this province , yet i will never depart from the profoundest respect to his sacred person , and duty to his government : since my coming into these parts , i have not seen any one person either of scotland or england that is outlawd for treason ; and when the king took exceptions at the access i had to the prince and princess of orange , there was not any thing of this kind objected to me . so i protest unto your lordship , i do not so much as imagine upon what it is that those informations , which it seems are brough to his majesty , are founded . my lord , as i am not ashamed of any thing i have done , so i am not afraid of any thing that my enemies can do to me : i can very easily part with a small estate , and with a life of which i have been long weary ; and if my engagements in this countrey could dispence with it , i would not avoid the coming to stand my tryal : but as this cannot be expected in the state in which i am , so i humbly throw my self at his majesties feet , and beg , that he may not condem me so much as in his thoughts , till i know what is the crime t●at is objected to me , that so i may offer a most humble justification of my self to him . i shall be infinitely sorry if any iudgment that may pass on me in scotland , shall oblige me to appear in print in my own defence : for i cannot betray my own innocence so far as to suffer a thing of his : nature to pass upon me , without printing an apology for my self ; in which i will be forced to make a recital of all that share that i have had in affairs these twenty years past : and in which i must mention a vast number of particulars , that i am afraid will ●e displeasing to his majesty : and as i will look on this as one of the greatest misfortunes that can possibly befall me , so with all the duty and humility in the world , i beg i may not be driven to it . i will not presume to add one word to your lordship , nor to claim any sort of favour or protection from you . for i address my self only to your lordship as you are the kings minister for these provinces . my lord , i am with all possible respect ▪ may it please your lordship your lordships , &c. hague , may , . . the criminal letters at the instance of the lord advocate , against doctor gilbert bvrnet . james , &c. to our lovi●s , &c. herauls , pursevants , macers and messengers at arms , our sheriffs in that part conjunctly and severally specially constitute , greeting . forsame●kle as it is humbly meaned and complained to us be our right trustie and familiar councellor , sir iohn dalrymple the younger , of stair , our advocate for our interest , upon doctor gilbert burnet , that where , notwithstanding by the laws and act of parliament , and constant practique of this our kingdom , the venting of slanderous , treasonable and advised speeches and positions , and the reproaching our person , estate and government , and the r●cept●ng , supplying , aiding , assisting , intercomoning with , & doing favours to denounced rebels , or forfaulted traitors , are punishable by forfaulture of life , land and goods , and particularly by the . . . act of . p. k. ja. . it is statute ordain●d that non of our subjects , of whatsoever degaee , estate or quality , shall presume or take upon hand , privatelie or publicklie , in sermons , declamation , or familiar conferences , to utter any false , slanderous or untrue speeches , to the disdain , reproach , or contempt of us , our council or proceedings , or to the dishonour , hurt or prejudice of us , or to meddle in our affairs or estate by-gone , present , or in time coming , under the pain of death , and confiscation of moveables : and be the act p. k. ja. . it is statue and ordained , that all our subjects contain themselves in quietness and dutiful obedience to us , our government and authority , and that non of them presume nor take upon hand publicklie to declame or privatelie to speak or write any purpose of reproach or sclander against our person , estate or government , or to deprave our laws and acts of parliament , or misconstrue our proceedings , whereby any dis-like may be moved betwixt us , our nobility and loving subjects in time coming , under the pain of death ; and that thes that do in the contrair shall be repute as seditious and wicked instruments , enemies to us and the common-weel of this realm , and that the said paine of death shall be inflicted upon them with all rigour in example of others . and be the second act . sess. of the first parliament of k. ch. . we and our estates of parliament do declare , that thes positions , that it is lawful for subjects upon pretence of reformation , or any other pretence whatsomever , to enter into leagues or covenants , or to take up arms agaiust us , or thes commissionat by us , or to putt limitations upon their due obedience and allegeance , are rebellious and treasonable ; and that all persons who shall by writing , preaching or other malitious and advysed speaking , express thes treasonable intentions , shall be proceeded against and adjudged traitor● , and shall suffer forfaulter of life ▪ lands and goods , lyke as by the third act . p. of k. ja. . and . act of his second parliament , and be the . act of . p. k. james . and . act . p. k. james . and diverse and sundry other law● and acts of parliament of this our kingdome . it is declared high treason for any of our subjects to recept , supply or intercomon with declared or forfaulted traitors , or give them meat , drink , hous , harbour , or any relief or comfort , and if they do in the contra●r . they are to undergo the same pains the ●aid traitors or rebels ought to have sustained , if they had be in ap●rehended . nevertheless , it is of verity , that the said doctor gilbert burnet , shaking off all fear of god. conscience and sense of duty . allegeance ●nd loyalty to us his so●eraign and n●●ive prince , upon the safetie of whose person and maintainance of who●e soveraign authority and princely power , the happiness , stabili●●e and quyetness of our subjects do depend , 〈◊〉 most perfidiously and treasonably presumed to commit , and it guilty of the crimes above mentioned in 〈…〉 archbald campbel , sometime earl of argyle ; iames stewart , sone to sir iames stewart , sometime provost of edinburgh ; mr. robert ferguson , sometime chaplain to the late earl of shaftsbury ; thomas stewart of cultness ; willi●●n denhol● , sometime of west-sh●ls ; master robert martin , sometime clerk to our justice court ; and 〈…〉 rebells and traitors , being most justly by our high courts of parliament , and justice court , forfaulted for the crimes of treason , and fled to our kingdom of england , and to holland , flanders , geneva , and several other places . the said dr. gilbert burnet did upon the first , second , and remanent days of the moneths of ianuary , february , and remanent months of the year one thousand six hundred eighty two , one thousand six hundred eighty three , one thousand six hundred eighty four , or ianuary , february , march , or april , one thousand six hundred eighty five ; converse , correspond , and intercomon with the said archbald late earl of argyle , a forfaulted traitor , and that within the said doctor burnet his dwell●● 〈◊〉 in lincolns inn-fields , near the plew-inn in our city of london , or suburbs thereof , or some other part or pl●●e within our kingdom of england , defamed , slandered , and reproached , and advisedlie spoke to the dis●ain and reproach of our ●erson , government and authority , wrote several letters , and rece●ved answers thereto from the said forefaulted traitor when he was in holland , or elsewhere , expressely contrary to his duty and allegeance to us his soveraign lord and king. and suklik upon the first , second , and third dayes of the moneths of may , iune , iuly , august , september , october , november and december , one thousand six hundred eighty five , and upon the first , second , and third days o● the moneths of ianuary , february , and remnant moneths of the year one thousand six hundred eighty ●ex , and first , second , and third days of the moneths of ianuary , february , march , one thousand six hundred eighty seven , or ane or other of the days of ane or other of the said moneths or years ; the said doctor gilbert burnet did most treasonabile recept , supplied , aid●●d , assisted , conversed and intercomoned with , and did favour● to the said iames steward , mr. robert-ferguson , thomas stewart , william den●olin , and mr. robert martyn , forfaulted traitors and rebels in the cities of r●terdam , amsterdam , leyden , breda , geneva ; or some other part or place within the netherlands , or elsewhere ; publickly and avowedly uttered several speeches and positions , to the disdain of our person , authority and government ; continues and persists in such undutiful and treasonable practises against us and our government ( we being his soveraign lord and prince ) expreis contrair to his allegeance and duty . by committing of the whilk crimes above specifyed , or either of them , the said doctor burnet is guilty and culpable of the crime of high treason , and is art and part thereof , which being found to be one inqu●ist● he ought and should to suffer fortaulture of life , land and goods to the terror and example of others to commit the like hereafter . our will is , hearfor , and we char●e you straitlie , and command , that incontinent this our letter seen , yee pass , and in our name and autho●ie , c●mmand and charge the said doctor gilbert burnet , above complained upon , be sound of trumpet with 〈…〉 , and using other solemnitie● necessar , to come and find sufficient caution and sovertie afte● in our books , of adjournal , that he shall compeir b●fore our lords justice general . justice cl●●●k and 〈◊〉 of ●●sticiary , within the t●●baith or criminal court house of edinburgh ; the twentie sevinth day of iune next to come , in the hour of caus , ther● to underlye the law for the crimes above-mentioned , and that 〈…〉 paines contained in the new acts of parliament ; and that yee charge him personally , if he can be apprehended and falizeing thereof at his dwelling at his dwelling-house , and be open pro●●mation at the 〈…〉 of the head burgh of the shyre , stewartie , regalitie , and other jur●sction where he dwells , to come and find the said sovertie acted in maner forsaid within six dayes , if he be within this our kingdome , and if he be cut with the samyne , that ye command and charge him in maner forsaid be open proclamation at the mercat croce of edinburgh . p●er and shoar as leith , to come and find the said sovertie within threescore dayes next after he be●s charged charged be you thereto under the pain of rebellion , and putting of him to our horn whilk six and threescore dayes respectively being by past , and the said sovertie not being found , nor no intimation made by him to you of the finding thereof , that ye incontinet hereefter denounce him our rebel , and put him to our horn escheat , and in ●ring all his moveable goods and geir to our use for his contemption and disobedience . and if he come and find the said sovertie , in●imation always being made be him to you of the finding thereof , that summoned and assyse hereto not exceeding the number of 〈…〉 five persons , together with such 〈◊〉 who best know the veritie of the premises , whose names shall be given you in roll subscribed by the said complain●● . ●●k person under the pain of ane hundred merks . and that ye within fift●●n dayes after his 〈◊〉 for not sin●ing of caution , caus registrate thi● our 〈◊〉 with your execution thereof , 〈…〉 justice as ye will answer to us thereupon , the whilk to do commits to you conjunctly and severallie our full power be thir our letters delyvering them be yow duelie execute and indor●●t again tot he bearer . given under our seal at edenburgh the nyneteinth day of april , and of our reign the third year , . ex deliberatione dominorum commissionariorum iusticiarii sic subscribitur signed . apryle . tho. gordonne . the witnesses against doctor gilbert burnet are , sir iohn coohran of o●kll●ree , iohn cochran of watersyd . mr. robert vvest , lawyer , englishman . mr. zachary bourne , brewer , englishman . mr. vvilliam carstalres , preacher . robert baird , merchant in holland . mr. richard baxter , preacher . an answer to the criminal letters issued out against me . i look upon it as a particular misfortune , that i am forced to answer a citation that is made in his majesties name , which will be ever so sacred with me , that nothing but the sense of an indispensable duty could draw from me any thing that looks like a contending with that sublime character . i owe the defence of my own innocence and of my own reputation and life to my self : i owe also to all my kindred and friends , to my religion as i am a christian and a protestant , and to my profession as i am a church-man , and above all , to his majesty , as i am his born-subject , such a vindication of my loyalty and integrity , as may make it appear , that my not going to scotland , according to the tenour of this citation , does not flow from any sense of guilt or fear , but meerly from those engagements under which i am in holland . i hope my contradicting or refuting the matters of fact set forth in this citation , shall not be so maliciously perverted by any , as if i meant to reflect either on his majesty for writing to his council of scotland , ordering this citation to be made , or on his advocate for forming it , and issuing it out . but as i acknowledge , that upon the information that it seems was offer'd of those matters here laid against me , it was very reasonable for hs majesty to order justice to be done upon me ; so his advocate , in whose hands those informations it seems are now put , had all possible reason to lay them against me , as he has done ; and therefore i will not pretend to make an exception to the laws and acts of parliament , set forth in the first part of this citation ; but i will only answer the matters of fact laid to my charge ; and whatsoever i say concerning them , does only belong to my false accusers ; and therefore i hope they will not be lookt on as things in which even his majesties advocate , but much less his sacred majesty is any ways concerned . i am first accused for having seen conversed with , and held correspondence with the late earl of argyle : and to make this appear the more probable , the place is marked very critically , where i lived ; and where , as it is pretended , we met , but as it is now almost two years since the late argyle was taken and suffered ; and that a full account was had of all his secret practices , in all which i have not been once so much as mentioned , tho' it is now a year since i have lived and preacht openly in these provinces . the truth is , that for nine years before the late earl of argiles forfeiture , i had no sort of correspondence with him , nor did i ever see him since the year , after his escape out of prison i never saw him , nor writ to him , nor heard from him , nor had i any sort of commerce with him , directly nor indirectly : the circumstance of my house , and the place in which i lived , is added , to make the thing look somewhat probable : but tho' it is very easy to know where i lived , and i having dwelt in lincolns-inn-fields the space of seven years , it was no hard matter to add this particular ; yet so inconsiderate is the malice of my enemies , that even in this , it leads them out of the way ; for soon after argile's escape , and during the stay that as is believed he made in london , i had removed from lincolns-inn-fields into brook-buildings ; this makes me guess at the informer , who saw me often in the one house , but never in the other : and yet even he , who has betrayed all that ever past between us , has not impudence enough th charge me with the least disloyalty , though i concealed very few of my thoughts from him . with this of my seeing argile , the article of the scandalous and treasonable words pretended to be spoken by me to him , against his majesties person and government , falls to the ground ; it is obvious that this cannot be proved , since argile is dead : and it is not pretended that these words were uttered in the hearing of other witnesses : nor is it needful to add , that his majesty was then only a subject , so that any words spoken of him at that time cannot amount to treason : but i can appeal to all those with whom i have ever conversed , if they have ever heard me fail in the respect i owed the king : and i can easily bring many witnesses from several parts of europe , of the zeal with which i have on all occasions expressed my self on those subjects , and that none of all those hard words , that have been so freely bestowed on me , has made me forget my duty in the least . i am in the next place accused of correspondence with iames stewart , mr. robert ferguson , thomas stewart , william denholm , and mr. robert martyn , since my coming out of england , and that i have entertained and supplied them in foreign parts ; particularly in the cities of amsterdam , rotterdam , leyden , breda , geneva , or in some other parts within the netherlands . this article is so very ill laid in all its branches , that it shews my enemies have very ill informations concerning my most general acquaintance since ; tho' there are , among those that are condemned for treason , some that are of my kindred and ancient acquaintance ; they have here cast together a company of men who are all ( iames stewart only excepted ) absolutely unknown to me , whom i never saw , and with whom i never exchanged one word in my whole life , as far as i can remember ; one of them mr. robert martyn , was as i ever understood it , dead above a year before i left england , as for iames stewart , i had a general acquaintance with him twenty years ago , but have had no commerce with him now for many years , unless it was that i saw him twice by accident , and that was several years before there was any sentence past on him : my accusers know my motion ill , for i have not been in breda these twenty three years . i se●led in the hague upon my coming into holland , because i was willing to be under the observation of his majesties envoy : and i chose this place the rather , because it was known , that none of those that lay under sentences come to it . i have never gone to amsterdam or roterdam in sccret : and have never been there but upon my private affairs , and that never above a night or two at a time ; and i have been so visible all the while that i was in those places , that i thought there was no room left even for calumny . in the last place it is said , that i have publickly and avowedly uttered several speeches and positions to the disdain of his majesties person , authority and government , and that i continue and persist in those treasonable practises this is so generally afferted , that it is enough for me to say , that it is positively false : but i have yet clearer evidence to the contrary of this : i have preached a whole sermon in the hague against all treasonable doctrines and practises ; and in particular against the lawfulness of subjects rising in arms against their sovereign , upon the acc unt of religion : and i have maintained this so oft , both in publick in private , that i could , if i thought it convenient , give proofs of it that would make all my enemies be ashamed of their ●njustice and malice . the witnesses cited against me are first , sir iohn cochran , whom i have not seen above this four years last past , and with whem i have had no sort of commerce since i saw him it is almost two years since he had his pardon , so it is probable he then told all that he has ever told concerning me : and it is not likely , that the matter would have been let lie asleep all this while , if he had said any thing to my prejudice . i confess i have been long acquainted with him , i look upon him as a man of honour ; and i reckon my self so safe in his honour , and in my own innocence , that i do very freely release him from all the obligation of frindship and confidence , and with that he may declare every thing that has past between us : for then i am sure he will do me the right to own , that as oft as we talkt of some th●n●s that were complained of in scotland , i took occation to repeat my opinion , of tie duty of subjects to submit and hear all the ill administrations that might be in the government , but never to rise in armt upon that account . the next witness is his son , whom i never saw but once or twice , and with whom i n●v●r entered into any discourse , but what became a man of my profession to so young a person , exhorting him to the duties of a christian. the next two are mr. west and mr. bourn , whose faces i do not know . after them come mr. carstaires and mr. , baird . whose faces i know not neither , it seems these are the witnesses to be led against me for the article relating to the netherlands ; but as i am wholly a stranger to mr. carstaires , so i do not so much ar know if there is such a person in being as robert baird , merchant in holland . and for the last , mr. baxter , i have had no correspondence at all with him these two and twenty years ; unless it was that once or twice i have met him by accident in a v●sit in a third place , and that once about six years ago i went to discourse with him concerning a matter of history in which we differ'd ; but as all our conversation at that time was in the presence of some witnesses so it was not at all relating to matters of state. and now i have gone over all the matter that is laid against me in this citation , and have made such reflections both on the facts that are alled●ed , as and the witnesses that are named , as will i hope satisfie even my enemies themselves , of the falsehood and injustice of these informations . so that i presume so far on his majesties justice , as to expect that all the indignation which is kindled against me , will be t●r●ed upon my false 〈◊〉 . to all this i will add one thing further for my justification , tho i am fully satisfied it is that which i am not obliged to do , and which if i were in other circumstances i would not do my self ; as i would advise no other man to do it , for it is a part of that right that every man has to preserve himself by all lawful ways , that he do not accuse himself , and by consequence , that he do not purge himself by oath of matters objected to him : and i do not so well approve of the courts of inquisition , as to give countenance to a practice which was first set on foot by them , of requiring men to answer upon oath to matters objected to them . if i were not a churchman i would not do this which i am about to do ; as i declare i will never do it again , let my enemies lay to my charge what they please . but the regard i have to this sacred function to which i am dedicated , makes me now once for all . offer this solemn purgation of my seif . i attest the great god , the searcher of all things , and the iudge of all men , that all the matters of fact laid to my charge in this citation , are utterly groundless , and absolutely false . this i am ready to confirm with my corporal oath , and to receive the sacrament upon it . and now i hope i have said enough to satisfie his majesty concerning my innocence , so that i am confident he will not only discharge all further proceedings against me , upon this accusation , but that he will express his royal displeasure against my false accusers . but if the power of my enemies , and their credit with his majesty is still so great , that this matter shall be carried further , and that advantage shall be taken from my not appearing in scotland , to proceed to a sentence against me , which some brutal men now in the hague are threatning before hand , that they will execute it : i then make my most humble appeal to the great god , the king of kings , who knows my innocence , and to whom my blood will cry for vengeance , against all that may be any way concerned in the shedding of it . he will at the great day judge all men righteously , without respect of persons ; it is to him i fly , who i am sure will hear me . judge me o god , accoraing to the integrity that is in me . at the hague , may , . . gilbert burnet . my secerd letter to the earl of midletoune . may it please your lordship , the copy of the citation against me , has been sent me out of scotland , since i took the liberty to write last to your lordship ; this puts me on a second ▪ address to you , for conveying the enclosed answer , which i most humbly lay down at his majesties feet . i am confident that the falsehood of the matters objected to me , will appear so evident to his majesty , as well as to all the world besides , that he will not only order the proceedings to be quite discharged , but that he will also order some reparation to be made to me , for so publick a blemish , as even a citation for so high a crime amount●s to . i confess the many hard things that have been of late cast on me , and in particular to young and old , and forraifners as well as english men , that have been coming into these darts , make me see that my enemies have possessed his majesty with thoughts of me , that i must crave leave with all humility to say , that they are as undeserving as hard . what have i either done or said , to draw on me so heavy and so long a continued displeasure ? but my comfort lyes in the witness that i have within me , of my own innocence : so that i dare appeal to god , as i do new to his vicegerent . since this matter is now become so publick , and that my name is now so generally kn●wn ; i must not be wanting to my own innocence ; especially when not only my life and reputation are struck at , but the religion that i profess is wounded through my sides : therefore till i have put in order my m●meirs for a larger work , i f●nd it in some sort necessary to print the citation , together with this answer . but i had much rather have all this prevented , by an effect of his majesties iustice , in ordering an end to be put to this accusation , and that by some act that may be as publick as the citation it self was , which may hear his majesties being satisfied with my innocence , as to these matters ; but if i have still as melancholy an answer to this , as i have had to all the former applications i have made , i must maintain my innocence the best way i can , in which i will never forget that vast duty that i owe his majesty , whatsoeuer i may meet with iu my owu particular . if there is any thing either in the iuclosed papen , or in this letter , that seems a little too vehement , i hope the provocation that i have met with will be likewise considered ; for while my life and reputation are struck at , and while some here are threatning so high , a man must be forgiven to shew that be is not quite unsensible ; and tho my duty to the king is proof against all that can ever be done to provoke me , yet i must be suffered to treat the instruments and procurers of my disgrace , who are contriving my destruction , with the plainness that such practices draw from me . i will delay printing aay thing for a fortnight , till i see whether your lordship is like to receive any orders from his majesty relating to him , who is , may it please your lordship , your lordships , &c. hague , may. . old st. . my third letter to the earl of midletoune . may it please your lordship , i venture once more to renew my addresses to your lordship , before i print the paper that i sent you by my last of the seventeenth of may , together with the two lettes that i writ you : for i find it necessary to add this , and that it go with the rest to the press . i am told , that great advantages have been taken upon an expression in my first letterr , in which i writ , that by my naturalisation during my stay here , my allegeance was translated from his majesty to the sovereignty of this provence ; as if this alone was crime enough ; and i hear that some who have been of the profession of the law are of this mind . i indeed thought that none who had ever pretended to study law , or the general notions of entercourse among nations , could mistake in so clear a point . i caution'd my words so , as to shew that i considered this translation of my allegeance only as a temporary thing during my stay here . and can any man be so ignorant as to doubt of this ? allegeance and protection are things by their nature reciprocal : since then naturalisation gives a legal protection , there must be a return of allegeance due upon it . i do not deny the root of naturali allegeance remains , but it is certainly under a suspension , while the naturalised person enjoys the protection of the prince or state that has so receiv'd him . i know what a crime it had been if i had become naturalised to any state in war with the king : but when it was to a state that is in alliance with him , and when it was upon so just a ground as my being to be married and settled in this state , as it could be no crime in me to desire it , so i having obtained it , am not a little amased , to hear that any are so little conversant in the law of nations , as to take exception at my words . our saviout has said , that a man cannot servs two masters : and the nature of things say , that a man cannot be at the same time under two allegeanees . his majesty by naturalising the earl of feversham and many others of the french nation , knows well what a right this gives him to their allegeance , which no doubt he as well as many others have sworn , and this is a translating thesr allegeance with a witness : that lord was to have commanded the troops that were to be sent into flanders in against his natural prsnce : and yet though the laws of france are high enough upon the points of soveraignty , it was never so much as pretended that this was a crime . and it is so much the interest of all princes to assure themselves of those whom they receive into their protection by naturalising them ( since without that they should give protection to so many spies and agents for another prince ) that if i had not very good grounds to assure me , that some have pre ended to make a crime out of my words , i could not easily believe it . my lord , this is the last trouble that i will give your lordship upon this subject , for it being now a month since i made my first address to you , i must conclude , that it is resolved to carry this matter to all extremities ; and mr. d' albevilles instances against me , and the threatnings of some of his countrymen , make me conclude , that all my most humble addresses to his majesty are like to have no other effect but this , that i have done my duty in them ; so that it seems i am to be judged in scotland . i am sorry for it , because this will engage me in a defence of my self , i mean a justification of my own innocence , which i go to much against my heart : but god and man seee that i am forced to it : and no threatnings of any here with frighten me ; for i will do that which i think fit for me to do to day , though i were sure to be assassinated for it to morrow : but to he last moment of my life i will pay all duty and fidelity to his majesty . my lord , i am with a profound respect your lordships , &c. hague , iune . old st. . advertisement . when i had resolved on the printing these papers , and was waiting till the day should come to which i was cited , i received a new advertisement , that the first citation was let fall , and that i was cited of new to the th . of august , to answer to the crimes of high treason , upon the account of two heads in my first letter to the earl of midletoune : the one is . that i say that by my naturalization i am loosed from my allegeanee to his majesty ; and the other is , that i threaten his majesty with the printing and discovering of secrets that have been long hid . if after what i have hither to met with , there were room lest for new surprises , this would have been a very great one . those who have advised the king to this way of proceeding against me , shew that they consider very little the reputation of his majees justice and so i be but sacrificed , they do not care how much the king's honour suffers in it : for first , after a citation of high treason , which has made so much noise , that is let fall : which is plainly to confess , that there is no truth in all those matters that were laid to my charge ; and then , where is the justice of this way of proceeding , to summon a man to appear upon the pretence of crimes , of which they know him to be innocent ? but this new matter is of such a nature , that it is not easie for me to find words soft enough to speak of it with the decency that becomes me . this is now more the cause of the states of holland and west-friezland than it is mine . it is indeed the cause of all the sovereigns in the world , and so it is his majesties own cause , who has so often call'd the naturalised french his subjects , and by consequence they owe him an allegeance , and so here must be at least a temporary translation of their allegeance made to him from their natural prince : and either this must be the same as to those who are naturalised by the states here , or they are not a sovereign state , and by consequence this cause is theirs , and not mine ; since the crime of which i am now accused is the acknowledging my self to have become their subject during my stay here , upon their having granted me the benefit and protection of naturalisation ; so that either his majesty was much mistaken in calling the french that are naturalised , his subjects ; or it can be no crime in me to have owned my self to have become a temporary subject to the statet . and if those who have studied the roman law will reflect a little on the effects that belonged to the ( ius civitatis ) or the rights that followed on the being made a roman citizen , which are the same in all sovereign states , and that naturaluzation is with regard to a prince or state , that which adoption was by the roman law with regard to private families , they will see that my enemies do not reflect enough on the principles of law when they pretend to make me a criminal upon such an account . if i had been charged for having desired to be naturalised , i confess there had been some more colour for it : but since it is now a received practice over all europe for the subjects of one state to procure their being naturalised in another ; it is unaccountable how any can call in question that tie of allegeance that he who is naturalised owes his new masters . not have my enemies considered how much this way of proceeding against me , must si●k the credit of his majesties naturalising strangers ; for how can they expect a constant protection from him , if it is made apparent that the king does not think he has a right to their allegeance ? and into what a consternation must it throw them when they find by my case that the king looks upon them as so many traitors for becoming his subjects , and for swearing allegeance to him ? for that oath is sworn in terms that are plain and full , and that have not the qualification that i put in my words of during my stay here ; so that they are much more criminal than it can be pretended that i am . the other article is no less injurious to his majesty , since they would make a crime out of my words , that mention my fear that he may be displeased at some things that may be in the apology , that i will be obliged to make for my self , to the writing and printing of which a sentence against me will drive me . if these men who have advised this , had the regard to his majesty which they owe him , they would not have presumed to infer , that it was a threatning of his majesty when i say , that i must justifie my self : or that any history of past transactions can be a want of duty to him , this consequence of theirs intimates that his life , or the late king his brothers , cannot bear a true history , otherwise where is the threatning ? but how great a crime this is , will i hope appear to his majesty ▪ when he has the leisure to reflect upon it ; yet there may be many particulars that i must necessarily bring in , in the history that i am writing , which have such a connection with what relates to my self , that i cannot pass them by ; which yet if it could be avoided , may not be fit for publick view . now if my enemies fancy , that it is a crime for me to justifie my self , because they have piss●ssed his majesty against me , i could answer this with some famed sayings of tacitus ' s , that would disturb 'em a little ; and if in a humble groan that i make before his majesty , i mention this as a consideration that may be of some weight with him , they who can turn this expression of my duty and respect into a crime , and are successful in the attempt , have a talent for which i do not envy them , though i my self come to feel the weight of it . hague , iun. . old st. . g. burnet . religions peace or a reconciliation, between princes & peoples, & nations (by leonard busher: of the county of gloucester, of the towne of wotton, and a citticen, of the famous and most honorable citty london, and of the second right worshipfull company) supplicated (vnto the hygh and mighty king of great brittayne: etc: and to the princely and right honorable parliament) with all loyalty, humility and carefull fidelity busher, leonard. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) religions peace or a reconciliation, between princes & peoples, & nations (by leonard busher: of the county of gloucester, of the towne of wotton, and a citticen, of the famous and most honorable citty london, and of the second right worshipfull company) supplicated (vnto the hygh and mighty king of great brittayne: etc: and to the princely and right honorable parliament) with all loyalty, humility and carefull fidelity busher, leonard. [ ], , [ ] p. 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xml conversion religions peace or a reconciliation , between princes & peoples , & nations ( by leonard busher : of the county of gloucester , of the towne of wotton , and a cittieen , of the famous and most honorable citty london , and of the second right worshipfull company ) supplicated ( vnto the hygh and mighty king of great brittayne etc : and to the princely and right honorable parliament ) with all loyalty , humility and carefull fidelity . esay . . . . . . . arise , o sion , be bright for thy light is com , and the glory of the lord is risen upon thee , and the gentils shall walk in thy light , and kings at the brightnes of thy riseing vp . and the sonnes of strangers shall build vp thy wals , and their kings shall minister vnto thee : for in my wrath i smought thee , but in my mercy i had compassion on thee ▪ therefore thy gates shall bee open contynually ; neyther day nor night shall they bee shut , that men may bring vnto thee , the riches of the gentils , and that their kings may be brought vnto thee . for the nation and that kingdom that wil not serve thee , shal perish : ād those nations shal vtterly be destroyed . the sonnes also of them that afflicted thee , shal come and bow vnto thee : and al they that despised thee , shal fall downe at the soales of thy feete : and they shal call thee , the citty of the lord , zion of the holy one of israell . thou shalt also suck the milk of the gentils , and shalt suck the breasts of kings and thou shalt know that i the lord am thy saviour , and thy redeemer , the mighty one of iaacob . proverbs . . mercy and truth preserve the king , for his throne shall bee established with mercy . eccle. . . the feare of the lord causeth that the kingdom fayleth not , but the kingdom is lost by cruelty and pride . printed in amsterdam : . to the high & mighty king iames , by the grace of god , king of greate brittayne , france & yrland : and to the princely & right honorable parliamēt , leonard busher wisheth , the wisdome of salomon , the zeale of iosias , & the mercy of christ : with the salvation of your spirits in the day of the lord iesus . for as much , as your maiesty and parliament , doe stand for the maintenance of the religion wherein you are borne , and for the same , doe most zealously persequte , with fyer and sword : i haue thought it good , and also my dewty ( most royal soueraigne ) to enforme your maiesty and parliament thereof . in al humility therfore , i give you to vnderstand , that no prince or people , cā possible attaine that one true religion of the gospell , which is acceptable to god by iesus christ , meerely by birth a for christ saith except a man be borne againe , he cannot see the kingdom of god. also the apo : iames saith . b of his owne wil he begat vs by the word of truth . and the apo : peter saith . c being borne a new , not of mortal seed , but of immortal , by the word of god , who liueth & endureth for ever . therfore christ commanded this word to be preached to al nations , that thereby they may attayne the new birth . by which your maiesty and parliament may perceaue , that the one true religion of the gospel , is not attayned by natural birth : for the all princes and peoples , in all nations , shold haue that one true religion of the gospell , the which you see and grant , they all haue not , yet many of them also wil defend theyr religion ( wherein they are borne ) by fyer and sword , as if it were theyr natural and earthly inheritances : or had with fyer and sword been gotten , and therfore wil with fyer and sword maynteyne and defend it : but your maiesty and parliament , may please to vnderstand , that the scriptures doe teach , that the one true religion is gottē by a new birth , then by the word and spirit of god , and therewith also , it is onely maynteyned and defended . for the word of god is liuely , & mighty in operation , & sharper then any two edged sword , & entereth through , even vnto the deviding asunder of the soule & the spirit , & of the joynts & of the marrow , & is a discerner of the thoughts , & the intents of the heart . seeing then the one true religion of the gospell , is thus gotten : and thus defended and mainteyned , namely , by the word preached onely , let it please your maiesty and parliament , to be entreated , to revoke and repeale , those antychristian , romish and cruel lawes , that force al in our lād , both prince ād people , to receaue that religion , wherein the king or queen were borne , or that which is stablished by the law of man : and in steed thereof , enact and publish , that apostolick . christian , gentle & merciful law of christ , viz : goe teach al nations , preach the gospell to every creature , that is , christ wil haue his ministers to preach and teach the people of al nations , the things that concerne the kingdom of god , & the name of iesus mesiah , repentance & remision of sins , & to baptise in his name , such as doe beleeve . and for as much also that the false ād antychristian religion did come by the spirit of error & doctrine of devils , ād not by fyer and sword : therfore by the spirit of christ , ād doctryne of the word of god , must it be driven out of the hearts and consciences , both of prince and people , and not by fyer and sword , as the false bishops and ministers haue and doe still perswade . therfore may it please your majesty and parliament , to vnderstand that ( by fyer and sword ) to cōstraine princes and peoples , to receaue that one true religion of the gospell , is wholy against the mynde and mercifull law of christ , dangerous both to king and state , a meanes to decreace the kingdom of christ : and a meanes to increace the kingdom of antychrist , as these reasones following doe manifest : the which i humbly beseech your majesty and parliament , carefully to consider , and that according to the word of god , which shal judge every man according to his deeds : and perseqution , is a worke well pleasing to al false prophets , and bishops , but it is contrary to the minde of christ , who came not to judge & destroy mens lives , but to save them : and though som men and women beleeue not at the first howre , yet may they at the a eleventh howre if they bee not persequted to death before : and no king nor bishops can , or is able to command faith , e that is the gift of god , who worketh in vs both the wil & the deed of his owne good pleasure , set him not a day therefore , in which , if his creature heare not and beleeue not , you will imprison and burne him : paule was a blasphemer , and also a persequter / and could not be converted by the apostles and ministers of christ , yet at last was receaued to mercy , and cōverted extraordinarily by christ himself , who is very pittiful & mercyful , & would have no man to perish , but would that al men come to repentāce , but not by perseqution , but by the word of reconciliation which he hath committed to his ministers . and as kings and bishops , cannot command the winde , so they cannot command faith , & as the winde bloweth where it listeth , so is every man that is borne of the spirit . you may forcemen to church against their consciences , but they wil beleeue as they did afore , when they com there , for god giueth a blessing onely to his owne ordinance , and abhorreth antychrists : and kings are to thinck that they are men , as well as kings ād that christ hath ordeyned the same meanes of faith for kings which he hath for subjects , and that subjects are christs freemen , as wel as kings subjects , & kings that beleeve are christs servants , even as subjects are kings servants , and both are bought with a price , therefore both ought not to bee the servants of men , in matter of faith & religion : but kings shal giue a greater account at the day of judgment , then their subjects : and to judge mē now for religion , is to judge afore the tyme , ād also to sit in the judgement seate of christ , to whom onely it belongeth , yet not before the day appointed , how much lesse to kings and bishops . i read that constantyne the emperor ( called the greate ) wrought to the bishop of rome , that he would not force and constrayne any man to the faith , but onely admonish and commit the judgment to god. christes kingdom is not of this world therefore may it not be purchased , nor defended with the weapons of this world , but by his word and spirit : no other weapons hath he giuen to his church which is his spiritual kingdom . therfore christ saith : he that wil not heare the church , let him be to thee as a hethen & a publicane : he saith not bur : ban : hang : or inpriso : him , that is antichrists ordinance . and though a man be an heretick , yet ought he not to be bur : but to be rejected , after once or twise admonition , that is cast out of the church : but as in the chur : of rome people of al sorts are by perseqution forced thereinto by the bishops and ministers therof : so it is in the church of england also , which sheweth that the bs : and min : of rome and eng : are of one spirit , in gathering peopel to their faith and church , which is the spirit of satan , who knoweth wel that his kingdom ( the false church ) wold greatly decay , if perseqution were laid downe : seing himself cannot stand before the word and spirit of god , much lesse his bs : and mi : therfore he wil haue them , for a name and shew , to vse the word of god , but indeed , if the false interpretation and alledging of the scriptures wil not help , then ( saith he constrayne them by fyer and sword : or els ( if people haue liberty of consciēce ) they wil trye the spirits , which of them is of god , as the apostle joh : teacheth : and then saith he : the prince as wel as people wil try all things , & keep that which is good , and wil also prove themselves ( as the apostle paule teacheth ) whether they are in the apostoliq faith or not : and as the church of rome provoketh the magestrats to peesequte to death , such as are excōmunicated out of her , so doth the church of england provoke the magistrats to persequte to death such as she excomunicate : and as the bs. and min : of ro : wil perswade the prince and people , to heare ād read none but themselves , so doe the bs : and min : of eng : also : but the bs : ād min : of the apostoliq church doe perswade al men , to prove & trye the spirits whether they are of god , which they cannot doe , except they heare and read other mens doctrines , as wel as the bs : ād their min : neither can they if they would , so long as the bishops have power from the king and state to silence and imprison etc : al preachers , ād to burne al books , which teach not their doctines . your majesty and parliament shal vnderstand that al those that confesse freely without compulsion , that iesus is the messiah the lord , and that he came in flesh , are to be esteemed the children of god and true christians , seeing such are borne of god , and no man can say that . iesus is the lord , but by the holy ghost , therfore not to be persequted . and as abel killed not cayne , but was killed himself , ād as isaack ād iacob did not persequte ismael and esau , but was persequted of ismael and esau ( who ād caine were figuers of al persequters ) so the beleeving doe not persequte the vnbeleeving , nor the true chur : the false , but the beleeving and true chur : are ( as they have beene ) most often persequted thē selves , of whom abel , isaack and iacob were figures , whose childrē are al beleevers and free mē : that stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ hath made thē free , ād wil not be tangled with the yoke of bondage , no not with cir-cumcision , much lesse with the discipline and doctrijne of the church of rome , whose bs : are able ministers of the fyer and sword , both to prince ād people , as many historyes doe lamentably witnes , to theyr vtter infamy and overthrow . also , if the beleving should persequte the vnbeleving to death who shold remayne aliue ? then none but the beleeveing shold liue in the world , and the vnbeleeveing shold dye in theyr vnbeleeif , and so perish for ever : the lord wil not that the beleeveing shold live , to the destructiō of the vnbeleeveing , but vnto theyr conversion , edificatiō and salvation : and by persequting of prince and people to death , because they wil not heare and beleeve , is no gayning of soules vnto god , but vnto the devill : and whereas ignorant and wicked bs. may thinck to wijn soules by killing prince and people for religion , they are deceaved greatly , for therby , they loose many soules , viz : their owne and the vnbeleeving , their owne they loose , because they wilfully breake the lords commandement , that saith : thou shalt not kill , meaneing such as are corporal malefactors : and the others which dye in their vnbeleeif , they confesse themselues are eternaly lost , except they ( as som of their minist : ) hold a redemption after this life . and the bs. shold know that error and heresy cānot be killed by the fyer and sword , but by the word and spirit of god / that is the onely weapons of christs bs. and ministers , and such onely christs ministers doe vse , whose liues and conversations are so harmlesse , holy ād gentle , that therby / and by their deaths ād sufferings , they wynne many soules vnto god : wherby , they are knowen fro al false bs. and ministers , who like wolues and beares ( not like sheep and lambs ) make pray , and devour both prince and people , that are not of their kinde , if they bee able to master them . besides , may it please your majesty and parlia : to vnderstand , that the beleeveing man that hath an dnbeleeveing wyfe , and the beleeveing woman that hath an vnbeleeveing husband , cannot liue together as the scripture teachet , for the salvation of the vnbeleeveing , if they be persequted to death : indeed som therby are forced to comfesse with the mouth , that which they beleeue not in heart , and so are made true dissemblers in steed of true christians , wherby many men and womē are deceaved with dissembling husbands and wyves , as wel as the king and state are deceaved with dissembling servants and subjects : but the word of god ( if permission of conscience might be granted ) would procure vpright , puer , and vnfeyned husbands and wyves , servants and subjects , so that thereby neyther prince nor people should be deceaved , for al good shepherds wil devide and seperate , and not force , slay , and persequte , for if men and women be found hereticks , they shal be seperated from the church : but if they be vnbeleevers , they shal not be joyned vnto it , vntil they be converted by the word of god , much lesse forced : which conversion for ought we know , may be at their death , if not afore , seing the lord caleth som at the elevent hower , so wel as at the first , and not at the king and bs. pleasures . kings and magistrats are to rule tēporal affayers , by the swords of their temporal kingdoms . and bs : ād ministers are to rule spiritual affayers by the word and spirit of god , the sword of christs spirituall kingdom , and not to intermedle one with anothers authority , office , and function : and it is a greate shame for the bs. and ministers not to bee able to rule in their church , without the assistance of the king and magistrat , yea it is a greate signe they are none of christs bishops and ministers of they were , they would not be afrayd nor ashamed of their faith nor yet would they perswade princes and people to persequte and force one another to beleeve them , but would use onely the assistance of gods word and spirit , and therwith suffer their faith and doctryne , to bee examined , proved , and disputed , both by word and writing . and he is a true bishop who is vnreproveable , ād that is able to stop the mouthes of his adversaries , by gods word and spirit onely , and whose faith and discipline agreeth with the prophets , christ and his apostles , and maketh no contracictiō , but al those bishops that force princes and peoples to receaue their faith and discipline by perseqution , doe ( with iudas ) goe against christ in his members , with swords , slaues ād halberos , who seing gods word wil not help them , betake themselues with al hast and hazard , vnto the authoritie of the king and magistrate . i read that a bishop of rome would haue constrayned a turkish emperor to the christian faith , vnto whom the emperor answered : i beleeve that christ was an excellent prophet , but he did never ( so far as i vnderstand ) command that men should with the power of weapons be constrayned to beleeue his law : & verely i also , doe force no man to beleeue mahomets law. also i read that iewes , christians and turks are tollerated in constantinople , ād yet are peaceable , though so contrary the one to the other . if this bee so how much more ought christians , not to force one another to religion : ād how much more ought christians to tollerate christians , when as the turks doe tollerate them shal we be lesse merciful thē the turks ? or shal we learne the turks to persequte christians ? it is not onely vn merciful but vnnatural and abominable , yea monstrous for one christian to vex and destroy another for difference and questions of religion , and though tares haue ouergrowen the wheate , yet christ wil haue them let alone til harvest , least whyle you goe about to pluck vp the tares , you pluck vp also the wheat with them , as your predecessors haue done , who thought they had gathered vp the tares and burned them , but you see now that they haue burned the weate in steed of tares . wherfore in al humility ād christian modesty i doe affirme , that through the vnlaufull weedhooke of persecution ( which your predecessors haue used , and by your maiesty and parliament is still continued ) there is such a quantity of wheate plucked vp , and such a multitude of tares least behinde , that the wheate which remayne , cannot yet appeere , in any right vissible congregation . and now beloved soueraigne and parliament , i know that through ignorance you doe persequte , as did also your predecessor●s , amend your lives therefore , and turne , that your sinns may bee put away , when the tyme of refreshing shal come , from the presence of the lord : who before hath shewed by the mouth of his holy servant iohn , that the woman ( meaning the church ) shold fleye into the wildernes for a tyme , tymes ād half a tyme , from the presence ād persecution of the serpent : and that the wynepresse shold bee troden without the citty , vntil ●loud came out of the wynepresse , vnto the horse brydels , by the space of a thousand and sixe hundred furlongs : and thus he hath fulfilled it . now therefore i humbly beseeth you , suffer not your bishops and ministers , any longer to perswade , to force your subjects or any others , to their faith and church by perseqution , neyther suffer them therewith to defend their faith and church , against their adversaries : if they have not any thing from gods word against vs , let them yeld and submit themselves : if they thinck they have any thing against vs , let them betake themselves onely to gods word , both in word and wryteing , for the whole scripture is given by inspiration of god , to that purpose , and is profitable to teach , to reprove , to correct , and to instruct , in righteousnes , that the man of god may be absolute , being made perfect vnto al good works . with which scripture ( and not with fyer and sword ) your majestyes bishops and ministers ought to be armed and weaponed : and whosoeuer shall not heare the words of such bishops and ministers : then such bishops ād ministers are commanded by christ ( not to to imprison : burne : ban : and hang them but to shake the dust of theyr feete against them , for a witnes when they depart from them , affirming that at the day of judgment it shal bee easier for sodom and gomorrha , then for such persons : and this com : of christ , did his bishops and ministers obey as you may read . by which and by that which follow , your gratious may : and princely , and honorable parliament may perceave , the will and mynde of our lord and saviour christ vnto whose mercy i commend you , and to the word and wisdom of his grace , which is able to build further , and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctifyed amen . your faithfull and loveing subject leonard busher . not furbusher . certayne reasons against perseqution . first , because christ hath not commanded any king , bishop , or minister to persequte the people , for difference and judgment in matter of religion . secondly , because christ hath commanded his bishops and ministers to perswade prince and people to heare and beleeve the gospell , by his● word and spirit , and ( as ambassadors for him ) to beseech both prince ād people , to be reconciled vnto god , and not ( as tyrants ) to force and cōstrayne them by perseqution . thirdly , because through perseqution it wil come to passe that the ambassadors of the onely spiritual lord & king iesus , may be persequted and inprisoned , burned , haged or bānished , for deliuering the message of their gratious lord , sentearly and often , both to prince and people : which to doe , is a more heynous fact then to persequte the ambassadors of the greatest king and prince in the world : for insteed of hereticks , they shal ( as they have alredy ) burne , bannish , and hang the ambassadors of the lord iesus christ : who doth choose out whom he pleaseth , to beare his name before kings & rulers , for a testimonial to them . fourthly , because then we cannot say , we have the liberty of the gospell in our land , seing where that is , there is no perseqution for any difference in religion , nor force●ing of the conscience to beleeve the gospel , except by the word and spirit of god onely , the which doe wound and kill the ●rrors of men and not their persons . fiftly , because christ came into the world to fave sinners , ād not to destroy them , though they be blasphemers , seing the lord may convert them as he did saule ( after caled paul ) and though they have difference in religion , or wil not heare nor beleeve in christ , that they may be converted , yet ought you not to persequte them , seing christ rebuketh such and his father sent him not into the world , to condemne the world , but to saue it be ye followers therefore of christ , and not of antychrist , in gathering people to the faith. sixtly , because then you shal not walke wisely towards thē that are without as the scripture teacheth but shal offend also the iewes ▪ and al other strāgers who account it tyranny , to have their consciences forced to religion by perseqution . seaventhly , because if perseqution be not laid downe , and liberty of cōscience set vp , then cannot the iewes , nor any strangers , nor others contrary mynded be ever converted in our land : for so long as they know a forehand , that they shal be forced to beleeve against their consciences , they wil never seeke to inhabit there : by which meanes you keep them from the apostoliq saith , if the apostoliq faith bee onely taught where perseqution is . eightly , because if freedom of conscience be not set vp , and perseqution laid downe , then al the kings subjects , and al strangers inhabiting the land ( that shal beleeve the apostoliq faith ) must depart the land to som free contry , or els abide the danger of burning , bannishing , hanging and imprisoning : the first , will bee a great impoverishing and weakning of our land , besides a losse of the faithfullest subjects and freinds : the secōd wil provoke the lord to wrath , by spilling the bloud of his faithful servants , ambassadors and witnesses , and also open the mouthes of al strāgers , to speake yet more lamentably , of the cruel and bloudy perseqution of our land. ninthly , because if perseqution contynue , then the king ād state shal have ( against their wils ) many dissemblers in authority and office , both in court citty and contrye , yea no man of any degre shal know whether they are al faithful and true christiās , that are about him , ād with whō he hath to doe , seing most men wil conforme themselves , for feare of perseqution , although in their harts , they hate ād detest the religiō wherto they are forced by law , the which is very dangerous and hartful , both to king and state in tyme of temtation , from bejond the seas , and in rebellion at home : for they that are not faithful to god , in their religiō wil never bee faithful to the king and state in their alegiance , specialy being tryed by a greate reward , or by a myghty rebel : but will ( to encrase their honors and reverennues ) conforme themselves , and fome to save their honors , lands , goods and lives ) wil yeeld and submit , though against their wils , even as they have done in case of religion : for through forceing men to church by perseqution , the true hearted subjects , are forced out of the land , and out of the world , som bannished , others burned , hanged , and imprisoned to death . tenthly , because then , if there be many religions in the land ( as it is wel knowen there are ) it wil com to passe ( through the continance of perseqution ) that many religions wil be continued in the church , seeing al are forced to church , who bring their religions with them , as wel as their bodies , wherby al their devotion is against their consciences , and all the church is a confused babel , ful of every vncleane & hateful bird , even a hold of soule spirits , as the scripture speaketh : out of which the people of god are commanded to flee , least ( as of their sins ) they bee also pertakers of their plague . and the bishops ( the authors of perseqution ) are very ignorant to thinke that when they have gotten people to their church , by perseqution , that then they have gotten them to their saith and religion , the which is nothing so , for most people ( though contrary mynded ) to save life and goods wil dissemble their religion , as for example the iewes in spaine and portugale , and the papists , reformists , and others in england , but when they com hether , or to som other free citty or country ( where praised be god is liberty of the gospel ) then they shew , that before they dissembled to avoyd the cruel perseqution of our land . moreover , the bishops bewray great ignorance , whē they perswade the king and parliament , to force prince and people to church by perseqution : for if that bee the meanes to com to the church of christ , then christ hath taught vs to fle the meanes of salvatiō , seing he hath taugt vs to flee perseqution : the which the bishops and their ministers perswade to be a great meanes to bring men to the church : indeed i confesse , it is the onely meanes to bring prince and people to the false chur : and therefore christ teacheth vs to flee that meanes , least through perseqution ( which is a great temtation ) we be constrayned to go the broad way ( which is the false church ) that leadeth to destruction ; & many goe in therat : and no maxvaile , for there m●●may be any thing , except good christians : for ( besides demas the worldlying , and hymeneus the blasphemer and many other sorts of indifferent christians , excommunicants covetous and profane persons ) there are notale rebels ād traytors , yea most cruel and desperate traytors and rebels , as digby , catesby , percy , &c : whose buread and vnheard treathery wil never be forgotten , which persons , if they had not been forced to church against their consciēces , had never enterprised , such horribel and hateful treason . and the bbs : should vnderstand that it is preaching and not persequting , that getteth people to the church of christ , for the scripture saith faith is by heareing , & heareing by the word of god , and not by the sword of princes and magistrats , as they perswade and practise : and therefore the bbs : of our land are truly caled antychrists for by their beastly and bloudy perseqution , as wel as by their blasphemous titles , erroneous doctrines , and popish goverment , may they justly be termed antichrists . eleventhly , because christ forethou● , that many false christs , and false prophets shold arise , & deceave many , yea if it were possible the very elect : and the apostle paul did prophecy a departure from the faith : and peter said , there shold bee false teachers now among the people : and iohn said , the kings shold give their power & authority vnto the beast , vntil the words of god bee fulfilled , therefore if perseqution bee not laid downe , and liberty of the gospel set by , you may persequte the true christians in steed of the false , as your predecessors have done : for they are now ( like as they were then ) the smalest number : and the false christians are now ( like as they were then ) the greatest number : and perseqution is a notable marke of the false church and her bbs : and ministers : and therefore christ wold have vs flee from it , who overcame the devil ād his ministers by the word of god , and by a good meeke and gentle life , whose steps his bishops and ministers ought to follow . twelvthly , because perseqution of such as doe preach and teach christ is a great hinderance to the liberty of the gospell : for thereby , are the iewes , turks , and pagans occasioned and encouraged to persequte likewyse ▪ all — such as preach and teach christ in their dominions : for if christian kings and magistrats wil not suffer christians to preach and preach the gospel of christ freely and peaceably in their dominions , how should you expect it of the infidels ? vnto whome bs : and christian kings and magistrats ought to give a good exāple and not an evil , as to burne , bannish , hangh and imprison peaceable and godly christians , that are no traytors , nor theeves , nor fighters , nor māslayers , nor perswearers , nor drunckards , nor whoremasters , nor such like . and the king and parliament may please to permit al sorts of christians , yea iewes , turks and pagans , so long as they are peaceable ād no malefactors , as is aboue mentioned : which , if they be found to be vnder . or . . witnesses , let them be punished according to gods word : also if any be found to be willing lyers , false accusers , false ale●●dgers and quoters of the scriptures , or other mens wrytings ( as som mē willingly doe ) let them be punished according right and iustice , it is due desert ād no perseqution , but let gods word have his full ād free passage amongh them al , even to the end of their lives , in al bountifulnes , long sufferance and patience , knowing that it is ordeyned of gods ritch mercy , to lead the infidels and such as erre vnto repentance , and amendemēt , out of the snare of the devil , of whom they are taken and deceaved . thirteenthly , because perseqution for religion is to force the consciēce and to force and constrayne men and womens conciences to a religion against their wils , is to tyrānisse over the soule , as wel as over the body and herein the bishops comit a greater sin then if they force the bodyes of women ād maides against their wils : yea herein they are more cruel and greater tyrans then the turks , who though they force the bodyes of strangers , to slavery and bondage yet they let the conscience goe free , yea to christians , that are so contrary to them in religion : but these idol bishops wil force the consciences of christians , their owne natural contrymen , even vnto spiritual slavery and bondage , and herein they commit fornication both with prince and people , & have made al both smale & greate , to receave a mark in their right hand , or in their foreheads , so that no man may bye or sell , save he that will goe to church , and submit to the bishops ordinances , and name and marke of their beastly and bloudy perseqution , through which as god they sit in , and reygne over the consciences both of prince and people , which is the spiritual seat and temple of god bought at a deere price , even with the pretious bleud of their onely spirituall lord iesus messiah , the true sheepheard and bishop of their foules . and the bishops in forceingmen and womens consciences , doe there in play the antychrist so wel as the popes : and indeed there is never a bishop in the land , but is a pope , for pope in lattine is papa , and papa signifyeth father in english , al the bishops in our land are called reverend fathers , therefore al the bishops in our land ▪ are caled reverend popes , so many lord bishops , so many reverend fathers , so many reverend popes : and these are all so many antychrists , so many idols , and so many false gods o● england , how many are thy gods , whom thou doest serve ? for whose spirituall adoration the knee of evry man and woman must bowe , or els they shal be persequted : vnto whom the king ought not any longer to give his authority and pouwer , least he fulfil the scripture which saith , that kings should give their power and authority vnto the beast . fourteenthly , because the burning , bannishing , hanging and imprisoning of men and women , by protestants , for difference of religion , doe justifye the burning , bannishing and imprisoning of men and women , by the papists , for difference of religion , even as the papists doe justify the turks and pagans in such like cruelty and tyranny , wherein ●o● is the protestants more merciful then the papists , or the papists thē the turks therefore , as the papists ( when they complayne of the turks and pagans , for their bloudy perseqution ) doe therin condemne themsewes , because they are found to doe the same , yea worse , for it is greater tyranny for one christian to forse and kil one another , then for turks and pagans to kil a christian , for that is no such great wonder , seeing it is a paganish part , who have no better knowledge , but christians should have better knowledge and more merci then to play the pagās against christians : so also the protestants , when they complaine of the papists for their bloudy and beastly perseqution , doe therein condemne themselues , seing they doe the same , for which they blame others , and so are rebuked of the scripture , which saith . therefore thou are inexcusable , o thou man , whosoever thou art that blamest another , for in that thou judgest another , thou condemnest thy self , for thou that judgest doest the same things : & thinkest thou this o thou man ( that judgest them which doe such things , and thou doest the same ) that thou shalt escape the judment of god ? fifteenthly , because his majesty and parliament would not willingly themselves be forcet against their consciences , by the perseqution of the bishop of rome and his princes , so i beseech them ( according to the law , christ hath injoyned christians ) not by perseqution to force other mens consciences , against their wils by the irritation of the bishops of our land. sixteenthly , because perseqution doe cause men and women to make shipwrack of faith and good consciences , by forceing a religion vpon thē , even against their mindes and consciences , and also doe send them quike to the devil in their errors , if that be heresy for which they are hāged ād burned , which to doe , is a most vnchristian , vnnaturall , cruell and tyrannous deed , and i am suer you would not bee content to be so dealt with all your selves : but indeed the popish and idol bishops are the authors hereof against the people , as wel as of other persequtiō against the princes . for antychristiā bbs : doe draw kings ād princes hereto , against their myndes , as may appeare by edward the sixt , that godly king of famous memory , who being vrged by his bloudy bbs : , to subscribe to the burning of a womā caled ioane butcher , he answered . wil you have me to send her quick to the devil in her error ? but when his bloud thirsty bs : wouls have no nay , he said againe to bishop cranmer , i lay al the chaledg therof on you before god , and cranmer said , he had never so much to doe in al his life as to procure it , whereby i doe perceave that godly kings are drawen to battel against the saints , by antychristian bbs : and false prophets , who otherwyse would rule and reigne , more agreable to the mynde of christ . also , herby may al men perceave that the counsel and bbs : could not satisfy the kings consciēce by their perswasiō , if they could have shewed him the word of god , for burning that christian , it wold have prevailed with that godly king , and he might then of faith have consented , but his answer sheweth that he was not of their minde , for al that they had said , and therfore now , if it please you to require of your bishops warrant from the word of god for the persequting of christians , or for forceing prince and people to church , you shal find not one bishop , yea not all of them together , though assisted with their ministers , wil be able to shew warrant from gods word , whereby to perswade your consciēces therevnto : and whatsoever is not of faith is sinne , and whatsoever is not from gods word , cannot be of faith . seaventeenthly , because perseqution of christians by christians doe not onely justifye papists , and teach the iewes and pagās to persequte christians , but also doe teach the papists and others ( that know not the mynde of christ , and once get the vpperhād ) to persequte those that persequted them : yea it is a meanes , ( as we have had lamentable experiēce ) to set ( such as are forced to church against their consciences ) at deadly hatred against the king and state , and vrgeth al them to treason and rebelliō , that have not truly learned christ , who himself was persequted to death , whose harmles crosse , al true christians must take vp , ād whose gentle and humble steps they must follow ād walke in , or els they cānot be his disciples , nor sheepe of his pasture . and nether can the papists be perswaded that perseqution is a sinne , so lōg as they ād other christians are also persequted by the protestants : seing the papists doe build their perseqution on the same ground with the protestants : but both sorts of bbs : doe erre grosly , as shal be shewed ( godwilling ) when they make their defence except heerewith their consciences be convinced to yeld , as i wish they may for the salvation of their owne foules , the peace both of prince and people , and the saftye of the king and state : in the meane whyle it is to be observed , that those bbs : ād ministers which perswade the king and parliament , to burne , bannish , hang and imprison , for difference of religion are bloud-suckers and manslayers , and such ( it cannot be denyed ) caused kings and magistrats , to be their excicutioners and tormentors , in burning the martyrs in former tymes , even in the dayes of king henry the eyght . & queene mary , as the books of acts & monumēts wil witnes , if they be not burned and i aske the bbs : and their mini : if the martyrs should have obeyed the king and queene , rather thē have suffered death ? and now i must humbly and with al reverence doe beseech his maje : and parliament , advisedly to consider among themselves , whether the prince or princesse ( differing with the church now in matter of cōsciēce and religion , stablished by law in our land ( as the right noble princesse elizabeth did , in queene maryes dayes ) doe not incurre the danger ad cruelty of the law now , as that worthy princesse did then , seing that popish and cruel law standeth stil in force , in most points of religion ? and who dare trust the bbs : and ther adherēts , in such a case , the matter lyeing in their hands . let it be supposed that the princes heart should be moved by the lord to embrace the apostoliq faith & discipline , shal he be forced to beleeve as the bishops doe , against his conscience ? shal he bee constrayned to submit to their goverment and discipline against his conscience ? shal he live in vexation and perseqution , and in danger of his life , by the bishops and law stablished as the princesse elizabeth did ? yea it must bee thus with our right noble prince , except there bee partiality , yea it will bee thus with his princely person , except those popish and cruel lawes be repealed and extinguished . wherefore i meekly intreate seeing death is most certaine , though most vncertayne when , that those antychristian and popish lawes may bee dissimulled and made voyd in tyme , least wee all lament , and bewayle it , when it wil bee to late : and i pray your majesty and honors to consider , that kings and princes hearts are in the hands of the lord ( as the ryvers of waters ) to turne as he will. and the scripture saith . the ten hornes ( by which i vnderstand ten kings ) shall hate the whore and make her desolate and naked . likewyse the scripture saith to abraham the father of beleeving princes , as well as beleeving people ) also i will make thee exceeding fruitful , and will make nations of thee , yea kings shall proceed of thee . which scripture doe also overthrow the judgment of those men , that hould a christian may not bee a king nor magistrate . let such consider that the lord here speaketh of abrahams spirituall seed , and not of his naturall seed : because if it be vnderstood of his natural seed , then cannot abraham be o father of many nations , seeing all abrahams natural seed , are caled iewes , and are but one nation of the iewes , so that the covenant of god could not be performed , that said : i wil make nations of the , yea kings ●●al proceed of thee . therefore it must be vnderstood of his spiritual seed , of which may be kings and princes , that are not naturaly descended of him , as wel as people that are not naturaly descended of him / therfore beleving kings may safly walke in the steps of their father abraham , and with their swords defend their subjects against their adversaries , and redeeme their bretheren out of the jawes of al devouring beasts and bloudy persequtors , for they beare not the sword for nought . and now also i desier those subjects ( of what degre soever / that wold destroy their kings and governors for difference in religion ) to consider that therin they justifye their kings and governors , which destroy their subjects for difference of religion . for as it is sinne for kings and governors to destroy their subjects , for difference of religion , at the perswasion of their bishops . so is it sinne ( but in a higer degree ) for subjects to destroy their king and governors for difference of religion , at the perswasion of their bishops and ministers . therfore perseqution for difference in religion is a monstrous ād cruel beast , that destroyeth both prince and people , hindereth the gospell of christ , and scattereth his disciples that professe and witnes his name . but permission of conscience in difference of religion saveth both prince and people , for it is a meeke and gentle lamb , which not onely furthereth and advanceth the gospel , but also fostereth and cheris heth these that professe it , as may bee seene by the permission of the princesse elizabeth : and others that were permitted and fostered in dutchland at that time . also permission of conscience is a greate and suerband , and benefit to the king and state , as may likewise bee seene in the same princesse eliza : who if she had not beene permitted , but had suffred death , as the bloudy bishops earnestly desyred : then had not the kingdom been so suerly not yet so purely kept ād preserved for his mayesty ad his royal issue , as now it is , the lord be praysed therfore . further i beseech his right excellent maiesty and parliament to obser that perseqution , was the occasion that the apostoliq church was at first scattered and driven into the wildernis , that is desert places of the world , whether she fled to save herself from the rage and tyrannye of antichrist and his apostles and ministers , the first authors of perseqution vnder the gospell . therfore his majesty and parliament may please to consider , that so long as perseqution continue , so long will the apostoliq church continue scattered and persequted into the secret places of this world : and no mervayle , for her faith and discipline is as offensive as odyous and as vnwelcom vnto antychrist and his bishops and ministers now : as it was then , as their burning , banishin , hanging and imprisoning , doe withnes even vnto this day . and it is to be noted , that as the apostoliq faith and discipline ( in the apostles dayes , when through them true signes and wonders were wrought by the extraordinary gift and power of the holy ghost ) did let and hinder the mistery of iniquity , wrought by antychrist his apostles and ministers , by whō the lyeing signes and wonders were done , through the extraordinary spirit of satan . so now the catholiq or antichristian faith and discipline ( haveing gotten the vpperhand by her lyeing signes and wonders , and by perseqution ) doe by the same , let and hinder the mistery of godlines , wrought by christ , his apostles and ministers , by whom the true signes and wonders were done , without perseqution . and it is well worthy to bee observed , both of king , prince , and people , that the bishops ministers of antychrist cannot abide , nor endure the faith and discipline of the apostoliq church , because it willbee the overthrow of their blasphemous and spirituall lord ships , and of their antichristian and bloudy kingdome . and therefore are they so fyery hot and zealous , for the catholiq or antichristian faith and disciplyne . for by their faith they shew plainly , that they are succeeded and descended from antychrist , vvho confessed not that the messiah came in flesh : and by their discipline or goverment , they playnly shew , they are antichrists bishops and ministers , who persequte with fyer and sword , al degrees both king , prince , and people , that will not confesse their faith , and obey their discipline . and it is very plaine and easy both for king , prince and people ( if they wil not take vp religion oncredit , and content them with the religion they were borne ād brought vp in ( as doe the papists ) to discerne who they be that teach the apostoliq faith and discipline , and who they be that teach antychrists faith and disciplyne , for the holy apostle sheweth it to al men , that wil give heed therto , for he saith : dearly beloved , beleeve not evry spirit , but try the spirits , whether they are of god , for many false prophets are gone out into the world , which confesse not that iesus messiah came in flesh . hereby shal you know the spirit of god , evry spirit that cōfesseth , that iesus messiah came in flesh , is of god , and evry spirit that confesseth not , that iesus messiah came in flesh , is not of god : but this is the spirit of antychrist , whom ye have heard , how that he shold come , & now already is he in the world . the same is the antychrist that denyeth the father and the sonne , whosoever denyeth the son , the same hath not the father . the apost : meaneth such as deny iesus to be messiah , the lord that came downe from heaven , as christ and they have taught , such have not the father , but doe deny hem also , as they have taught him , and therfore christ saith : the tyme shal come , that whosoever killeth you , wil think that he doth god good service , but these things they wil doe vnto you , because they have not knowen the father nor me , the father loveth such as beleeve that i came out from god , thus faith christ : but antychrist and his ministers beleeve not this doctrine , neither doe they thus teach christ iesus the messiah . and you may please to vnderstand that of this antichrist ( or rather ( as the ●●riack ) of this false christ came the church of rome : whose bishops and ministers teach not this doctrine , ād as the mother so the daughter also , teacheth not this doctryne : but will likewyse persequte both prince and people , that shall confesse that iesus messiah came in flesh as iohn teacheth : or that the son of man ascended vp , where he was before , or that he was glorified with his father before the world was , as himself saith : or that he was the second man the lord from heaven , or that he had and hath a heavenly body , as paule teacheth : for these ād such like doctrynes doe the church of rome ād her daughters persequte with fyer ād sword being indued with the spirit of antychrist : by which antychrist his apostles and ministers , the apostoliq church was scattered and driven into the wildernes , that is desert and secret places of this world , evē by their bloudy perseqution . the which stil they continue and raise against the members and witnesses therof , who w●ere and are the martyrs , which in al ages have and doe suffer death , imprisonment , and bannishment , since the first perseqution : and we never reade , nor ever shal reade that the apostoliq church or such as have derived their faith and discipline of her , did ever persequte . therfore i humbly desier his majesty and parliamēt , with al godly carefulnes to consider , that it is not possible that the church of rome ( caled catholiq ) or those that are descended of her , and have decived their faith and discipline frō●her , ever was , or could be the apostoliq church ( caled primitive church ) or she that is descended frō her : seing the scripture saith the apostoliq church ( caled in scripture the womā ) hath a place prepared of god in the wildernes , a thousād twe hōdred and sixty dayes from the presence of such as did persequte her . now then , i beseech you cōsider , may it be possible that the church of rome ( caled in scripture a mistery , great babilon , the mother of whoredoms , & abominations of the earth , the woman that sitteth vpon a scarlot coulered beast , full of names of blasphemy , the womā arayed in purple & scarlet , & guilded with gold & pretious stones & pearles , haveing a cup of gold in her hand , ful of abominations & filtines or her fornication , the woman that is drunken with the bloud of saints , & with the bloud of the martyrs or witnesses of iesus , by her beastly perseqution ) was or could be ever the apostoliq church , or are those that are descended from her , seeing the scripture saith she hath a place in the wildernes , prepared of god , where she shold be fed a thousand two hundred & sixty dayes , from the presence of her persequtors ? if so be , you wil have the church of rome , and those that are descended from her , to be the true apostoliq church : then it wil follow that the church ( caled the woman , and did flye into the wildernes , from her persequtors ) was , and is the false antichristian church : and also it will follow that those ( which we account to be the martyrs and witnesses of iesus ) were not of the true apostoliq church , but were obstinate persōs and heretiks , even as their adversaries ( in rome , spaine , england and els where ) did persequte , adjudge and execute them far . but if you wil have the prophecy of the apostles to be true , a●● 〈◊〉 beleeve their holy writings , and also wil have the martyrs ( that have bene burned , ban : hanged ād imprisoned ) to be of the true apostoliq chur : then it will follow and that justly according and agreeable to the scriptures , that the church of rome and those that did ād doe persequte , are descended from the false antichristian church , caled a mistery , great babilō the mother of whoredoms & abominations of the eearth , &c : which was and is druncken with the bloud of saints & martyrs of iesus : seing they have her antichristian faith and lordly discipipline , and for the defence and maintenance therof , wil also burne , bannish , hang and imprison / so hot ād fiery zealous that therby they shew plainly , that they walke so just and even in the steps and paths of the mystical woman great babilon , their bloudy parent & mother : so even i say , as if they studied her lyeing and hypocritical doctrine , her deep and divelish devinity , her blasphemous , princely and dāgerous dignity , and her beastly , bloudy and deadly discipline . through the continuāce whereof , not onely the apostoliq church , is continued stil in the wildernes ād desert of this world , but also the jewes and others , both in great brittayne , and al over the world , are kept back from the knowledge of gods holy word , the onely order and ordinance christ hath appointed , for the gathering of his church together , out of al places of the world . and so long as perseqution continue , you cannot trye the spirits of the many false prophets , that are gone out into the world , as the holy apostle doth loveingly advise and admonish you . but ( like the pastists ) must be tyed onely to the spirits of your loedly bishops and their ministers , who wil have alboth king , prince and people to receave their spirits , and therefore wil not have any others to preach and print with in the land , least their lyeing doctrine and lordly discipline , be discovered and disclaimed . and in steed of disputing and wryting by the word and spirit of christ ( against their adversaries ) they wil cruelly persequte and fight against them , by fyer and sword , and spirit of antichrist , from whom they are descended and succeeded , both lynealy and of great antiquite . wherefore i humbly beseech the king and parliament , that you will betymes listen vnto the holy spirit in the mouth of the prophet , which faith bewyse now therfore yee kings , be learned ( or instructed ) yee judges of the earth , serv the lord in feare , & rejoyce in trembling , kisse the son of god least he be angry , and ye perish in the way of perseqution , when his wrath shal suddēly burne . let not therfore the kings of the earth band themselves with the bs : & ministers of antichrist , nor princes assemble themselves together against the lord and against his anointed . that is against christ and his church : seing both he and she breake your bands and cast your coardes from them . yea her seed overcometh you , by the bloud of the lamb , & by the word of their testimoni , for they love not their lives vnto death . beware then in tyme least you offend any more of these litle ones that beleeve in christ , seeing christ saith it were better to have a milstone hanged about the neck , & drowned in the depth of the sea , then so to doe . he meaneth that it were better for you to loose your lives , then any way to consent to the offence of such litle ones that beleeve in christ . see then i pray that they be not despised , burned , bannished , hanged ād imprisoned . for their angels alwayes behold the face of christs father in heaven . and remember he saith : the tree is knowen by his fruit , but persequting of christians , is an evil fruit . and that a good man out of the good treasure of his heart , bringeth foorth good things : but persequting of christiās is no good thing . and that for every ydle word men shal speak , they shal give accounts at the day of judgement : how much more for every wicked and cruel deed of perseqution , as burning , bannishing , hanging and imprisoning of those that cōfesse with the mouth , & beleeve with the heart the lord iesus , & that god raysed him from the dead : whose lawes and ordinances they are carefull to keep and obey ! christ saith that such shal bee saved , and yet you feare not to burne , bannish , hang and imprison such . but if you beleeve that god will avendge his elect , beware of persequting his servāts , that cal on his name , specialy such as witnes his truth against the abominations of antychrist . suffer not your bishops to destroy those men and women , that striue to serv god according to his wil in his word . be not your bishops executioners , in burning , bannishing , hanging , and imprisoning of harmlesse and peaceable christians : but let them enjoy fredom of the gospell and liberty of conscience : that so the apostoliq church ( which is scattered and driven into the wildernes ād desert of this world ) may be againe gathered togather , both of iewes and gentils , into visible and stablished congregations . and that the catholiq and vniversal church of antychrist may bee consumed & abolished by his word & spirit , as the holy apostle hath foretold , even the vttermost of his arival , which is the emperial & triple crowne , through the triple sea of rome . and againe i humbly entreate the king and parliamēt , to vouchsafe to heare me with patience yet a litle further : if freedom of the gospel and permission of conscience might be graunted , then would not papis● nor any others dissemble their soules , and to the greate danger , both 〈◊〉 king and state , seeing they are forced to church against their consciences : and may not popish priests and iesuits ( vnawares to the bishops ) become the bishops ministers , seeing the change of their religion , and religions habit differ so litle , ād so by degrees infect the people with more popish doctrine , as occasion shal bee ? and such men wil readely imbrace the bishops orders , and so they shall readely have the bishops favours : by which meanes , they may more easily ād speedly , ha● accesse vnto the court , and presence of the king and prince , which indeed is very dangerous , howsoever not regarded . therefore i doe ( according to my dewty ) humbly advise his majesty , not to bewtifie his cou●● and presence , with any popish stones , not with one , though it be of all●●blastor . but permission of conscience and freedom , and liberty of the gospe● will no ●ay bee dangerous to the king or state , if such like rules ● these bee observed . first , that no people tainted with treason , doe beare any office . that al sorts of people tainted with treasō , doe ( at al times frō home ) weare ab lack hat with two whire signes , the one before the other behinde in open sight . that no people , tainted with treason approach within ten myles of the court , without licence . that no people tainted with treason doe inhabit the citty of london , nor yet within ten myles thereof . that none tained with treason , doe make any assembly or congregation . that no person or persons ( in whatsoever difference , by reasoning or disputing ) doe draw any weapon , nor give any blow , stroke , or pushe , in payne and penalty , as his majesty and parliament thinck meet . that ( for the more peace and quietnes , and for the satisfyeing of the weake and simple , among so many persons , differing in religion ) it bee lawfull for every person or persons , yea iewes and papists , to write , dispute , comfer and reason , print en publish any matter touching religiō , either for or against whomsoever , alwayes provided they aledge no fathers , for proffe of any point of religiō , but onely the holy scriptures neither yet to reproch or 〈◊〉 one another , nor any other person or persons , but with al love , gentlenes , and peaceablenes , enforme one another to the glory of god , honor of the king and state , and to their owne good and credit , by which meanes , both few errors and few bookes will bee written and printed , seeing al false ministers , and most people , have litle or nothing els ( besides the fathers ) to build their religion and doctrine vpon : ( or if it be once stablished by law that none shal confirme their religion and doctrine , by the fathers , and by prisons , burning and bannishing etc : but by the holy scriptures , then error will not bee written nor disputed , except by obstinate persons , and 〈◊〉 consciences seeing the word of god will bee no shelter for any error . yea i know by experience , among the people caled brownists , that a man shall not draw them to wryte , though they bee desyred , for one of their preachers caled mast : rob : hath had a wryting of myne in his hards , above sixe moneths , and as yet i can get no answer it seemes he knoweth not how better to hide his errors , then by silence , and this willbee the case of all false bishops and ministers , who had rather be mute and dumb , then bee drawen into the light with their errors . therefore permission of conscience , and liberty of the gospel in our lād of great brittaine , wil mightily further the advancement of the apostoliq faith . and chiefly their books , whereout sufficient matter willbee drawen , for the convinceing of every perticuler religiō , which is against the religion , stablished by christ and his apostles , who by all meanes lawfull , sought the conversion and salvation , both of iewes and gentils . and they are vnconstant and faithles men , or at least very ignorant , that thinck error will ouercome and prevayle against the truth . for the abolishing of such thoughts , i desper such men to cōsider the mighty victory and prevailing of the truth , in the tyme of christ ād his apostles , which ( notwithstanding resisted and disputed against : by the most part of the priests and learned men , both of iewes and gentils ) yet ouercame and prevayled against al the errors of the high priests and great learned men , both of the iewes and gentils , and the apostle saith we cannot doe any thing against the truth , but for the truth : and seing it is the same truth , which al good men would embrace , why should we not hope the same victory by it ! did not king darius ād al the people both jewes and gentils cry out and say , that truth is greate and strongest ? why then should those that have the truth , and those that wold have the truth , be affraid of errore seing truth discovereth dark and dangerous wayes of error , though abroad in open books , even as light discovereth darke and dangerous places , though abroad in open high wayes : and as the more darke and dangerous the wayes be , the more necessary and needful will light be found of al that travaile : so the more darke and dangerous the errors be , the more needful and profitable wil truth be found , of all that would travil to heaven . but som may say objection let al this be grāted , yet it is no wisdom we think , to bring dangerous errors into the light , that so many men may stumble at them . which being not brought to light , would not bee so much as knowen to som . i answer , no more , then a rock that lyeth hid vnder water , which ( for want of bringing into the light ) many men may make shipwrack thereō and so stumble or fal neverthelesse , though it be not so much as knowen to them before . therfore as a stock in the seas ( though not so much as knowen to som ) yet ( for want of being made knowen ) many men stumble and fal theron / ād so perish both men and goods . so an error ( though not so much as known to som ) yet ( for wan● of being made known ) many men may stumble and fal theron / and so perish both bodies an● soules the which is more lamētable ▪ and as roks in the seas / the more they manifest thēself● the more furtherance in the way to the heaven . so errors in the world the more they manifest themselves , the more furtherance in the way to heaven . and you shal vnderstand that errors being brought to the light of the word of god , wil vanish as darknes before the light of a torch : evē as the chaffe before the winde cannot stand , so error before truth cannot abide : therfore it is no hinderance , but a great furtherance to haue al erroneous rocks in the haven to heaven , made knowen and published . and a greate and suer argument it is , that those bishops and ministers have not the truth , that publikly dare not dispute or wryte against error , as may be seene in the bishops and ministers in queen maryes dayes , which could not abide to have books written and printed , of that which they caled error and heresy , but caused , that if any such were written , both them and the authors to be burned , if they could com by them . therfore if permission of conscience and liberty of the gospel be not granted , and burning lawes repealed , then the bishops and ministers now may perswade and cause to be burned , both the books and the authors , that have the truth in steed of heresy and heretiks , even as their prede●ssors have done already , and so shed more innocent bloud , and also provoke the lord to further wrath against the king and state. it is not the gallosse , nor the prisons , nor burning , nor bannishing , that can defend 〈◊〉 apostoliq faith : indeed the king ād state may defend reliōs peace 〈◊〉 their sword and civil power , but not the faith , otherwise , then by the ●ord and spirit of god. the dutch princes and peeres say , that force , word , & gallosse , in matter of religion : is a good meanes to spil bloud , & make 〈◊〉 vprere in the land , but not to bring any man from one faith to another . the ●agans wil not persequte one another for religion , though ( as i read ) 〈◊〉 be aboue three thowsand sorts among them . and you know both ●ing henry and queene mary , thought themselves defenders of the ●●ith , and thaught they burned herericks and heresy , when they burned 〈◊〉 and their books , but now you see and must acknowledg , that they ●ere persequtors of the faith , insteed of defenders therof , and also that 〈◊〉 ( through the instigation of their bloudy bishops ) burned the word 〈◊〉 god , and those that professed and wrought it , insteed of heresy and ●●reticks . and thus it wil be now if the bishops and their ministers ●ay haue their wils : and therin they ( as their predecessors ) fullfill the ●ord of god , in gathering kings of the earth to the battell of the great day of ●od almighty . for they perswade kings to force their subjects , to re●●ave the faith , and to bee of the church , whereas the word of god tea●eth otherwise , saying , faith commeth by heareing , and hearein by the word 〈◊〉 god , and not by the kings sword . and christ saith : teach al nations & 〈◊〉 force al nations : and this teaching is to be vnderstood by the word ād ●●iting of the prophets and apostles of our lord and saviour christ which is the word of god. for they that wil bee of the true faith ād ●hurch , must be caled thervnto , out of the world : by the word of god , ●●every nation , and not forced and constrayned in every nation , as the ●●shop of rome , and al other false bishops and ministers have and 〈◊〉 perswade kings , emperors and magistrats . and his majesty and parliament may please to vnderstand , that so ●doe , is to quench the spirit of god , in christ bishops and ministers , and al●●● furstrate the precept of christ , which saith : preach the gospel to evry 〈◊〉 , besides , it maketh their owne office ād functiō voyd , they ought to preach & instruct , with al meeknes , them that are contrary minded , proveing if god at any tyme wil give them repentance , that they may know the truth for the ministers of the lord must not strive , but be apt to teach , gentle towards all men , suffring evil men patiently , telling kings and princes , that the weapons of christs bishops and ministers , are not carnal ( as the weapons of all false and antichristian bishops and ministers are ) but spiritual , & mighty through god , to cast downe holds , casting downe evry high thing , that is exalted against the knowledge of god , & bringing into captivity , evry thought , to the obedience of christ . also , if all within the land be forced to be of the church , as the bishops and their ministers would stil have it , thē there would be no world in the land , but al the land wold be the church , which is absurd , and contray to the scriptures , and great ignorance doe the bishops and their ministers shew , when they thinck the whole nation of people , is the church of christ , for there it cannot be said , out of greate brittayne , the lord added to the church from day to day , such as shold be saved : seeing within the land there would be none without to be added : also within that land , then would be no perseqution , seeing the church of christ doth not persequte at al , much lesse it self , but the ministers and members of that church doe persequte one another , and therefore it cannot be the spiritual kingdom and church of christ , but of antichrist , seeing it is devided against it self , and persequteth one another , and wil with her mother greate babilon , be consumed and condemned , seeing ( as she ) they burne , bannish , hang , and imprison one another which is no christian , but antychrist , an , monstrous , cruel , woulvish , and a tyranous part ano practise : for christ sent hi● ministers as lambs among wolves , & not as wolves among lambs . againe , i humbly and withal reverence doe beseech his right excellēt majesty , to give me leaue , to put him in mynd , of those things that do● concerne the glory of god , the assurance of his owne salvation , the stablishment of his throne , and the benefit both of the church of christ , and the common wealth of al his dominions . and though as iosias , he find● ( by reading in the booke of the new testament ) a great alteration of the apostoliq faith , & change of the lawes & ordinances of christ , within his dominions . yet not to be dismayed , as henry le grand , but be encouraged a● iosiah , to labor and endevor the redresse therof , according to the myn● of christ , in his new testament . and i doubt not , but as iaacob the patriarch prevayled with god & men : so shal iaacob the king prevayle both wit● god & men , especially being his chief stuard , by his new testament . through the zealous reading whereof wil be found , that antychrist the king of the catholiq faith and discipline ( caled the mistery of iniquity ) doth sit in the temple of god , even as the scripture hath foretold . 〈◊〉 it is to be noted that the scripture hath also foretold , of the consumatiō . 〈◊〉 abolition , of this antychrist , the man of sin , & his mistery of iniquity , with the● most of his arival , or hyghest top of dignity , he is come vnto ▪ and this shal be done by the spirit of the lord in the mouth of his servants . for when 〈◊〉 words of god be fulfilled , then shal the servants of the lord prevaile ( by his word and spirit ) with ten kings that shal hate , & make the whore desolate , which sitteth in the hearts and consciences of peoples , multitudes & nations , and this whore is the woman caled the great citty which reigneth over the kings of the earth , meaning the chur : of rtome , by her false faith ād disciplin , which is so fast setleds in the hearts and consciences of the kings of the earth , that they think they doe god good service , in killing and burning his servants that do speak against her faith & disciplyne , & that wil not bay any of her wares , that is her antychristian doctrines ād ordinances . but as she hath had her exaltation and arival to the heyght and dignity of the 〈◊〉 empire of rome , by the love of kings , who have given their power and authority vnto her , and who have fought for her against the saints & servants of iesus . so she shal have her consumation and abolition ( from that height and dignity ) by the hatred of kings , who againe shal take their power and authority from her , and therwith defend the peace and persons of the saints & servants of iesus : & no● for religions peace , wil use their power and authority against the bloudy perseqution of antychrist and al his bloudy bishops and ministers , ād so becom nursing fathers vnto the church of christ . and as it hath pleased god , to give his majesty peace round about , as he did vnto king cyrus , in whose dayes the material temple began to be repared ( which was a figuer of the spiritual temple ) so i pray it may please him also ( in the peaceable dayes of king iames ) to begin to repayre the spiritual temple ) the apostoliq church scattered and dryven abroad into the wildernes of this world , whose ca●ing and gathering together , must be by the preaching of the word of god , both to jewes and gentils , and not by the sword of the kings of the earth , as antychrist and his ministers have now along tyme perswaded and prevailed , wherby not onely the jewes and infidels , but also papists and other false christians , are hindred and deprived from the knowledg of the apostoliq faith . and it is be noted that david might not build gods temple , because he had spilt much blood , which sheweth , no blood ought to be spilt , for the building of the spiritual temple . . cro. . . ergo peace in religion is a good meanes to make a vnity of religion among so many christian sects and it is wel worthy consideration , that as in the tyme of the old testament , the lord would not have his offrings by constraint , but of every man whose heart gave it freely : so now in tyme of the gospel , he wil not have the people constrayned , but as many as receave the word gladly , they are to be added to the church by baptisme : and therfore christ commanded his disciples to teach al nations , & baptise them , that is to preach the word of salvatiō to evry creature , of al sorts of natiōs , that are worthy and willing to receave it . and such as shal willing and gladly receave it , he hath commanded to be baptised in the water , that is dipped for dead in the water , ād therfore the apostle saith , els what shal they do , which are baptised for dead , if the dead be not raised why are they baptised for dead ? and therfore also he saith : we are buried thē with him by baptisme &c : and it is to be wel observed , that when christ wold have preached the word of salvation to the gaderēs , he did not compel them when they refused , but finding them vnwilling to receave him and his word , he turned from them without hurting thē : also whē iames and iohn saw that som of the samaritane● refused christ ▪ they wold have commanded fyer from heaven to consume them , as elias did . but christ rebuked thē and said : ye know not of what spirit ye are : for the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . by al which , it may please his majesty and parliament , to take knowledge that christ wil haue none consumed with fyer and sword , for not heareing and not receaveing his word : and that ( howsoever it hath bene the mynde of antychrist , to destroy mens liues for religion , and therein haue not spared neither prince nor people ) yet it is not the mynde of christ , that princes should destroy their subiects , nor yet that subiects shold destroy their princes for difference in religion . and therfore why shold bishops perswade princes and people , and why shold king , prince and people be perswaded by their bishops and ministers , to be contrary mynded to christ ? verily it is a notorious ād playne token of a false faith and discipline , that is defended by fyer and sword , the power and authority of princes : and they cannot be christs bs : and preachers that perswade princes and peoples to such antychristian tyranny and cruelty . and it is very evident that those bs : and mm : which giue ouer men and women to the magistrate , to be perswaded by perseqution , doe shew clearly that their doctrine is not good , and that they want the word ād spirit of god , ād therfore flee to the magist : sword for the forceing of them to their faith and disciplyne , and as the wyne is not good which we are forced to drink , so those doctrynes are not good which we are forced to beleeue . but it may be by this tyme , al those bishops ( who vnfainedly feare god and truly love the king ) will haste and make speed to come vnto his majesty for pardon , acknowledging the truth of this booke , confesseing their ignoraace and arrogance , in the knowledge of gods word , and in compelling the people to heare the word preached , and for impri : burn : bannis : and hang : for religion : cōtrary to the minde of christ , ād also for stopping the mouthes of mē ād burning their books , that preach ād wryte contrary to their myndes ād wils , yea it may be they wil also confesse and say : oh most gratious king , we beseech your maiesty to shew vs mercy and to forgiue vs our spirituall pride and ambition , in that we haue thus long vsurped the blasphemous titles of spirituallords and lords graces , the which tytles we now to the glory of god , ād honor of the king do with vntained hearts confesse , to be due and belong onely to christ himself : and that the name and tytle of spiritual lord cannot belong to any earthly creature , no not to the king or emperor , because it is an heavenly name and tytle , how much lesse can it belōg or be due vnto vs , your maiestys vnworthy subjects and schollers . and for so much as we now vnderstand ( the lord be praysed therfore ) that the holy and heavenly name and devine tytle of spiritual lord is as much , yea as high and greate , as the name and tytle of a spiritual god , and also that it is a name aboue evry name , which god the father hath given vnto christ onely to the end , that evry knee shold bow vnto that onely and heavenly name , and that evry tongue shold confesse that iesus is the messiah , the lord , vnto the glory of god the father , that in al things christ might have the preheminence , for he alone is the head of the chuach , which is his body : the which cannot bee so long as we , or any other bishops , do hold and retayne that devine , high and super excellent name and tytle of spiritual lord : because then it cānot be said that god hath so highly exalted him , as to give him a name aboue evry name , seeing our names and tytles are also spiritual , and are caled spiritual lords so wel as the son of god , iesus the messiah . the remembrance hereof most gratious soueraigne doe make vs to tremble before god and the king . and therfore we most earnstly desire your sacred majesty , and the whole parliament , to dischardge and release vs of these fearful names and tytles ▪ that doe onely belong to the son of god , iesus the onely spiritual lord , that god hath given vnto his church . moreover , we doe ( according to the truth ) acknowledge , that if wee shold any longer retayne these devine and high names of spiritual lords and lords graces , we shold therin be intiteled , not onely with a name equal to our lord iesus , the onely begotten son of god , but also we shold be intytled with a name and tytle above your right excellent maiesty , yea above al emperors , kings ād princes of the earth the which alone we doe acknowledge to be a sufficient cause to put vs downe , and to depri●ue vs of these vsu●ped names , and blas●hemous tytles . also we doe confesse , that our pomp and state wherin we now live , is more like the bishops of the catholiq church of antychrist : then any way like vnto the bishops of the apostoliq church of christ ; vnto whom we acknowledge , we ought to bee made like , and also to be qualified with the like gifts and graces of the spirit , or els in no ●ase we can be meet bishops for the church of christ , as the apostle plainly teacheth both to tymothy and tytus &c : and we must further acknowledge and confesse , that our howses , howsholds and revenues are more fit ād meet for princes , dukes and earles , then for the bishops of christ . vvherfore ( being moved and stirred vp hereto by the feare of god ) we earnestly beseech your majesty and parliament , also to disburden vs of this great pomp and state , and of our great and princelyke howses , howshols and revenues ; that so we may be made equal ād conformable to the ministers of christ , and then we shal have both hope and cōfort of the world to come , although but litle in this , except your majesty and parliament doe grant free liberty of conscience , the which we now do also with the poore distressed christians , most humbly entreat and desire : and that for these . reasons : first , because therby the gospel of christ wil bee set free and at liberty , wherby al people both iewes and gentils wil be gathered to the apostoliq faith , church and discipline . secondly , because many of your maj : subjects , both men and women ( who now are forced to dissēble their religion , for feare of our perseqution ) wil be released and set free from their spiritual bondage ād slavery , wherin we now do hold thē against their consciences , and so they wil becom more faith ful christians to god , and more loyal subjects to your maj : then ever they were before , to the salvation of their soules and the saefty of the crowne and state. thirdly , because the poore distressed christians ( now bannished and dispersed out of their fatherland , over the face of the earth ) wil be redeemed frō greate misery and bondage , wherin now ( no doubt ) they live and abide , because they wil not be in bondage to any other spiritual lord or head , then the lord iesus messiah alone , whose faith and disciplyne they desier onely to learne and obey . fourthy , because therby great benefit and comodity wil redound , both to your majesty and to all your subjects , within your highnes dominions by the great commerce , in trade & trafiq both of iewes and al people , which now for●ant of liberty of conscience , are forced and dryven els where : and also from the revennues & liveings , which we and our glergie doe possesse , and from the courts and offiices we hold ād keep great profit and commodity wil redound , both to your highnes , and to al your kingdoms , we say more profit and commodity then we or any man is able to expresse . and therfore , we also desier al his maiestyes subjects , both greath & smale in al love ad feare of god , not to be offēded , or any way moved or grieved , when they shal see such a reformation of vs , as that famous king henry the eyght , did make of our lordly brethren the abbots and their clergye : for indeed such a reformation ought to come among vs and our glergy , seeing we are no way agreable to the new testament , of the onely spiritual lord iesus messiah , but are limbs and fellow members of that antychristian ād romish church , which in the scriptures is prophecyed to be abolished and destroyd . now therfore we pray you all let not king david say , the sons of seruiah are to strong for him , for that wil bee vnprofitable for you al. and for conclusion , we entreat his ma : and parlia : to enact ( that as our adversaries com against vs , onely with the word of god , so we go against them onely with the word of god , and not as we have done by civil authority , for so our selves may be forced to dissemble thus it may be , the lord wil perswade and work in the hearts of some of the bishops , who wil willingly resigne their antychristian tytles and popish pomp and state , with their princelike howses ād lyveings into the hands of the king , without any compulsion or constraint . but if they doe not , yet if it please god to open the kings heart , to see their antichristian and idol estate , ād the danger ād damage they cause both to the king prince and people , they wil be compelled therto , evē as their lordly brethren the abbots in king henry dayes were . and howsoever it be not regarded , or perhaps not descerned , yet in the sight of god ād his people they are greater idols , then their lordly bretheren the abbots : yea greater idols then the images of wood and stoone ( which that famous ād godly king edward , did pul downe and destroy ) for they did not imprison , nor burne , nor hang : nor yet caused to be bannished any of the kings subjects , that would not worship them , as these idol bishops doe . and out of doubt : these bishops are greater idols then the golden calfe , aaron made and offred vnto : for the calfe did not persequte nor ver , such as did not acknowledge it for their lord as the bishops doe : neyther did the calfe reygne and rule by force over the consciences of the people as these idol bishops doe . besides , the calfe was set vp in steed of moses , who brought the people out of egypt , and shewed them the wil of god , but these bbs : are set vp in steed of christ , who have brought vs out of the bondage of hel , and who sheweth vs his fathers wil in his new testament , the which these jdol bs : wil not suffer vs to obey but in steed therof wil force vs to faldown worship and obey ther father antychrists wil and old testamēt , which stinks in the nostrels of al reformed strangers that heare thereof , as wel as in ours that have taken our flight from it . therfore these spirituall lords and idol bishops ought to be pulled downe and suppressed , like the abbots their lordly brethren , though not sacrificed vnto the lord in smithfeild as the godly king iosias sacrificed the idol priests of the high places on the altars therof . and i doe verely beleeve , that if free liberty of cōscience be granted , that the spiritual kingdom of these idol bs : will in tyme fal to the ground of it self , as the jdol dagon fal before the arke for throug the knowledge of gods word , wil al godly people , with draw themselves in al peceable and godly wise , from the spiritual obedience of these spiritual lords and idol bbs : and quietly betake themselves vnto the obedience of the onely spiritual lord iesus messiah . but howsoever it be i shal be contented therewith , and so i wish al others , for we al ought to be content , if we obtayne freedom of conscience , and therefore to give god prayse cōtinualy , that hath wroght so blessed a worke in the hearts of the king and parliamēt , for whō as the scripture teacheth we ought to make supplications , prayers and intercessions , that they may com to the knowledge of the truth , and that we may lead a peaceable and quiet life in al godlines and honesty . and vnto whō we ought to give ( by the law of god ) al earthly honor feare and reverence , and willingly to paytribute and custō , tax and tol , so much and so often as it shal please his majesty and parliam : to appoint and gather , by any officer or officers whatsoever . for whom also , and for the whole common wealth of al his kingdoms , we ought to be diligent and ready to hazard and lay downe , not onely our goods , but also our lives at al tymes and occasiōs . for christ hath onely set vs free from al ecclesiastical lawes and ordinances , which himself hath not commanded in his last wil and testament . yea from the ecclesiastical lawes and commandements of the old testament , how much more hath he set vs free from the ecclesiastical lawes and ordinances of antichrist , but he hath not set vs free from the moral and iudicial law of god , for that the king is bound to execute , and we are bound to obey : and for want of the execution therof , there are in our land many whores and whorekeepers , ād many childrē murdered besides the death ād vndoeing of many persons about whores . wherfore i humbly desier that the morall and and iudicial low of god may be practised and executed , of al degrees both high and low without respect of persons , according the mynd of christ . for the lord wil have that evry man shal love him above al , and his neyghbor as himself , and christ saith , as ye would that men shold do to you , so do ye to them likewise . therfore as the king wold not have his subjects , to take away his life because he is contrary to them in religiō . so let not the king take away his subjects lives , because they are contrary to the king in religion : and as you wold not men shold force you to a religion against your consciences , so doe not you force men to a religion against their consciences . and as it is the duty of subjects to seeke the conversion of their king ād state , by the word of god , and not his and their destruction by fyer ād sword . so it is the duty of the king and state , to seek the conversion of of their subjects by the word of god , and not their destruction by fier ād sword , as the pope and his prelats doe teach : whose vassals therin both emperors and kings ( as wel as people ) have bene a long tyme : both to the destruction of thēselfs ād their subjects . for who knoweth not that prelats and preists haue perswaded subjects , to destroy their kings and princes , as wel as kings and princes to destroy their subiects : but 〈◊〉 pray thē both to take notice that the scrip : saith he that destroyeth the temple of god , him wil god destroy . let not therfore kings , princes nor subjects bee any longer perswaded to destroy one āother through the suttelty of bs : and their mi : who ( most of thē ) onely seeke the security of their owne pōp and glory , ād the stablishmēt of their spiritual thrones therin : for so long as they may confirm that , they passe not who perish , whether king , prince or people . againe therfore i humbly pray his ma : and par : to repeale and make voyd al popish lawes and canons , and to see the moral and iucial law of god , both firmly enacted , ad carefully practised after the minde of chr : and then shal christs spiritual throne be stablished in the hearts & consciences both of king , prince and people , so as the chu : christs spiritual kingdom shal increace in the knowledge of faith , and obediēce therof , with al loue , peace ād charity , one towards another . and the cōmō wealth of his ma : king : wil florish and prosper , ād also his throne be constātly stablished both to him and his heyres through out al his dominions , in a suer land of peace and love , tho●e with and towards another , to the glory of god and the cōfort of his maj : and of al his subjects , ād also to a famous ād excellent glorious paterne of govermēt , to al kingdōs , natiōs ād contries round about , as in the dayes of salomō king of israel . for if the holi lawes of gods word be practised and executed after christs wil , thē , shal neither king , prince nor people be destroyed for differēce in religion : then treason & rebelliō , as wel as burn : ban : han : and impri : for difference in religion wil cease and be laid downe , then shal not mē , womē and youth be hāged for theft : then shal not the poore lame , sik and weake ones , be stocked and whipped , neither shal the poore , stranger , fatherlesse ād widowes , be driven to beg frō place to place , neither shal the lame , sik ād weake persons suffer such misery ād be forsaken of their kinred , as now they be , thē shal not murder , whoredō and adultry be bought out for mony : then shal not the greate defraude and wrong the smale , neither the ritch oppresse the poore by usury and litle wages : then shal not men bring vp and i●herit others childrē in steed of their owne , neither shal an honest man be forced to liue with a whore in steed of an honest wife , nor yet an honest women with a whorekeeper in steed of an honest husband 〈◊〉 shal not servāt● be forced from mariage by bonds , nor yet be 〈◊〉 servitude , longer then six yeares , neither shal they be brought vp contrary to covenant , nor posted from one quarter or one yeare to another for their fredom ād in th end be forced to buy it of their masters , or els to go without it two then shal neither prince nor people be disinherited , for not being of the church : neither shal they be held lawlesse persons , though excomunicated neither shal any man dare kil them as now they may , and be quit by law neither shall any man feare to have his mouth stopt for preaching the truth , then shal no man need to flee out of his natiue contry and fatherland , for persequtions sake : then shal al mē live in peace vnder his owne vyne , lauding and praysing god honoring and obeying the king. then also wil no bloud be eaten among christians , wherby the iewes should haue just cause to stumble or be offended , neither shold any reliqs of the ceremonial law , ( as tithes and offrings etc : ) be any longer in use , wher by the jewes shold be hardned , in their vnbelief and kept from the faith of the messiah . then shal the iewes inhabit and dwel vnder his maiestys dominion , to the great profit of his realmes , and to their furtherance in the faith : the which we are bound to seeke in al loue and peace , so wel as others , to our vttermost endevor , for christ hath comanded to ●each al nations &c : and they are the first . lastly , then shal not so many mē and women be deceaved by false ministers , neither by their sermons , nor yet by their bookes , which are ful fraighted with false doctrines , ād confirmed and countenāced not onely by the kings authority ād power but also by wresting and false interpreting of the scriptures , and by aledging of popish fathers , which through the greate ignorance of the people doe greatly prevayle : but then shal be abolished through the word ād spirit of god ( his two witnesses ) in the mouth of his servants , who by ●ord ād wryting shal breed such knowledge , that none of wisdoms children shal bee deceaved , another reason , why so many good people are now deceaved , is , because we that have most truth , are most persequted . and therefore most poore , whereby we are vnable to wryte and print as ●e , wold , against the adversaries of the truth . it is hard to get our dai●y food , with the labors of our weake bodyes and feeble hands , how thē should we have to def●ay other chardges , and to write and print ? i haue through the help of god out of his word , made a scourge of smale coar●●s , wherwith antychrist and his ministers might be dryven out of the ●emple of god. also a declaratiō of certaine false translations in the new testament : but j wāt wherwith 〈◊〉 print and publish it , therfore it must rest til the lord seeith good to sup●ly it : in meane while , i humbly entreat his ma : and par : to give me ●ave to prove the bs. with one question , by which you may perceave the ●●orance of your bs : it is this , how they wil bee able to proue a resurrection from these words , i am the god of abraham , the god of prison . kings and magistrats are gods ministers and not the bishops , therfore i humbly beseech you to with ●and the bloudy mindes of your bs : that there be no more innocent christians persequted to death for religion . i read that in the netherlands aboue a hundred thowsand persons have beene put to death for religion , but now praised be god , we have no such wooful tidings preached amōg vs , the lord worke as much in our land i beseech him , that so you may no longer burne and bannish the servants of christ : for he saith they that doe these things have not knowen the father nor mee : yet i confesse you have the zeale of god , for you think you do god good service , in burning christiās that differ frō your religion . but i also confesse your zeale is not according to knowledge : for your bs : and min : being indued with vniversity and high schoole learning , devinity and doctrine , but being ignorāt of the lowly learning heavenly divinity and doctryne of christ , have and doe stil goe about to stablish their owne , and haue not yet submitted themselves , to the lowly learning devinity and doctryne of christ : and therfore like their predecessors , wil perswade you to burn : ban : etc : such christians as they hold to be in error about doctrines ano questions of faith and religion : right as if they had the power to rule , governe , and dispose the hearts and spirits of kings , princes , and people , even as they list , ād also to make them good and righteous when they wil , and to cause them to vnderstand and beleeue the gospel , even by a day and ho●er apointed , which to do , belongeth to god alone : and therfore christ saith no man cā come to me except the father draw him . and christ wil haue his ministers to preach to such as are worthy and wiling , and not as your min : who com to them , whō they hold vn worthy and finde vnwilling , and say , wil ye not com to chur : and heare , and wil ye not beleeue our doctryne ? but we wil make you , or els wee wil burne you for heretycks . thus wil they taunt meeke and holy christians who are torne like sheep among the wolves . but christs ministers wil with meeknes , instruct such as are contrary mynded , tollerating the evil men patiently , proveing if god at any tyme wil give them repentance , that they may know the truth : wher by they shew plainly , that they are christs disciples , and have that true faith , which worketh by loue , even as the apostle saith , the which i pray you to consider , that so you may both know and obay the wil of christ . now ( saith he ) abideth faith , hope and love , but the cheyfest of these , is love , for wher love is ther is no disdayne , it seeketh not her owne things , it is not provoked to anger , it suffreth al things , it hopeth al things , it indureth al things . yea the love of christ so loveth , that it wil not ver nor persequte any that cal on his name . therfore i humbly pray you to remember them that are in bonds , as though ye were bound with them , and them that are in affliction , as if ye were also afflicted in the body . and to shew them mercy , for mercy rejoyceth against judgement , but judgment mercyles , shal be to them that shew no mercy . if ye be friendly to your brethren onely what singuler thing do you , doe not the sinners the same ? be not like vnto them , but vnto your heavenly father , whose wisdom , love and mercy , i beseech him to grant you , that so you may come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved : and that we ( your majestis faithful subjects ) may lead a peaceable and quiet life ( even in our owne nation ) in al godlynes and honesty . amen . now , them that are persequted , i exhort with the words of the apostle peter . dearely beloved thinck it not strāge concerning the fiery trial that is among you to prove you , as though som strange thing were com vnto you : but rejoyce in as much as ye are pertakers of christs suffrings that when his glory shal appeere ye may ●e glad and rejoyce . if ye bee rayled vpon for the name of christ , blessed are ye for the spirit of glory ād of god resteth vpon you , which on their part is evil spokē of , but on your part is glorifyed . but let no man suffer as an evil doer , or as a murtherer or as a busy body in others matters : but i● one suffer as a christian , let him not be a shamed , but let him glorifye god in that behalf . for al the mar●rs of the apostoliq church have suffered as evil doers , and as heretiks . for the time is that judgment must begin at the howse of god : if it first begin at vs ( saith the apostle ) what shal the end be of them , that obey not the gospel of god. and if the righteous scarsly be saved , where shall the vngodly and sinner appeere ? wherfore let them that suffer according to the 〈◊〉 of god , commit their soules vnto him in weldoeing , as vnto a faithful creator . read esay . . . . . . he shal judge among the nations , ād rebuke many people , they shal break their sword into mattocks and their speares into sithes : nation shal not lift vp a sword against nation , neyther shal they learne to fight any more . the high looks of man shal be humbled , and the loftynes of man shal be abased , & the lord onely shal be exalted in that day : for the day of the lord of hosts is vpō al the proud and hauty and vpon al that is exalted , and it shal be made low . litle david overcame great goliah , yet not brought vp in warre . vnlearned peter confuted the learned preists , yet by caling a fisher man. attend , and helpe , and you shal see the wonderful works of god. for the foolishnes of god , is wiser then men , & the weaknes of god is stronger then men . and god hath chosen the foolish things of the world , to confound the wise , & things tha● are despised , hath god chosen , to bring to nought things that are . . cor. . . . finis . leonard busher . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e . cor. . . a ioh. . b jam . . ● c . petr. . . . matth. . marc. . . cor. . . ephe. . heb. . . mat. . mar. . ▪ act. . . luc . . . . act . . . . & . . 〈…〉 rev. . marc. . . mat. . rev. . luce . . . ioh. . . a matt. . . . e eph. . . . tim . . act. . 〈◊〉 . iam. . . . pet. . . . cor . . iohn . . . sam. . . . act. . . tim . . . . cor. . . . rom. . act. . ioh. . ephe. . ● . mat. . tyt. . . iohn . . cor . . . iohn . . & . io. . co . . ● gala. . galat. . ●e . . co. . ●att . . . tyt. . . . . mat. . . . act. . . re. . . re. . . . tim . . . mat. . . . marc. . act . . . ther is one furbusher a preacher in this lād . notes for div a -e . cor. . many thousand ambassadors & martyr● of christ hath bbs● caused to be slaine since ch● ascended . marc. . ▪ persequtiō destroy christians , but not errors . cor . . . tym. . . . luc. . . . persequtors rebuked of christ . . cor. . . col. . . persequtiō●lo make ●any strā●ers . ●ersequtiō●●usemani ●●ligions . 〈◊〉 the ●hurch . ● v. . . ●●eter were to have ●any reli●ōs in the ●nd , thē in ●●le churc : mat. . ▪ christ teacheth to flee persequtiō ergo it cannot possible be good . mat. . note . see . tim . . . rō . . . mat. . . thes . . ● . tym. . . peter . . rev . . . gal. . . & . . ● . . note false bbs : teach turks and pagans to persequte christians rom. . . 〈◊〉 . . . ● . cor . . false bbs : worse then turks and pagans . note falss bbs : spirituall ●ornicatiō . ● . thes . . . . cor. . . . & . cor . . . with ●ev . . & . ● . pet. . . ● . pet. . if idolaters ought to be slain then ought al those that submit & yeld spiritual obedience & reverēce vnto these bbs ) to be slaine , who then shold remaine in land alive ? rev. . . note . rō . . . . luc. . . or provocation . king edward was an enemy to persequtiō acts & mon : pag. . the christiā answer of king edward . rev . . . 〈…〉 rō . . . by digby , cates by &c : ma● . . . luc. . act. . the bbs : as the high preists , force men to obay man rather thē god. note wel . then ●ary til to morrow . rev. . gen. ● . rom. . . rom. . permissiō of cōsciēce a furtherāce to the gospel and a safly both to prsnce and people rev. . . & . . . . cor. . . . thes . . . . . tes . . . . tim . . . . . . tim . . . . . & . pe . ● . . . john . ● . . john . iud. . . . note wel . . john . . the siriah saith came in flesh . . john . . . . john . . . . . . co . . iohn . . . . & . . ▪ iohn . . . . . . . joh . . . ioh. . . & . . iohn . . . . cor. . . . . ioh. . . . cor . . . . rev. . ● . 〈◊〉 . rev. . . . . rev. . . . . note . . the. . . . . tim. . . . rev. . . . . & . . . . tim. . . & . . . pe . . . . joh . . . & . ● . . iohn . . iude . . like mother , like daughter . . tim. . rev. . ▪ . joh . . . fyer and sword , n● equal we●pons to the spirit & word . mistically psal . . ● psal . . . ● . joh . . ● rev. . ● rev. . . mat. . . mat. 〈◊〉 . ▪ . mat. . ▪ . rom. . ▪ luc. . . . txs . . ▪ i pray the lord to give such grace , the sea of rome may 〈◊〉 apace . nota frō popes submission ther is great suspi●ion . . tim. ● . . . james . . ▪ note a true signe of false bishops an ministers . iohn . . . iohn . . ▪ . cor. . ▪ . act. . . . cor. . ▪ . esd . . . . answer . another true signe of false bishops & ministers . the word of god the onely defender of the faith of christ . idol bbs : & false ministers authors of persequtiō rev. . ▪ rom. . . . mar. . ● . . tes . . . ● . tim . . , . . cor. . . . rev. . . act. . . . note act. . . a true church wil not persequte . mat. . rev . . . . cor. . . . luc. . ▪ gen. . rom. . . tym. . . tym . . rev. . . th● . . rev. . 〈◊〉 . caled the temple of god. . thesa . rev. . . . iohn . . re. . . esay . . . ezra . . . ha. . . . exod. . ● and . ▪ act. . . . mat . mar. . ▪ mat. . . . co. ● . luc. . . luc. . . . christs bs : wil not be lords over the consciences . ●he bs : do ●now in ●heir consciences ●hat this 〈◊〉 true . ●ob . . phi. . . col. . . the bs : in tytles equal to the son of god. note gods blessings il expected , vnlesse these idols bee rejected , who are exalted above al earthly gods. . tym. . tit. . . . to greate 〈◊〉 the ods , 〈◊〉 use the word , against gods word . the bs : greater idols then the abbots ●mages or goldē calfe ▪ ex. . ▪ what greater idolatri thē to obai other spiritual lords , then the lord iesus . . king . . . . . sam . . . . ty . . . ▪ rō . . . ▪ col. . . heb. . . deut. ▪ . . luc. . ● ▪ note . cor. . & . . ▪ frederich & iohn palsgraves said that vnder pretext of the holi ghosts office of correction litle els was sougt thē to reygne over the cōsciēces of the magistrats & subjects like as in the accursed popedom is cō to passe &c. note wel . iewes kepe back from the faith by perseqution . rev. . and . . . pet. . ● . it is the kings honor to search out a thing . pro. . exod. . . a cryeing sinne . iohn . . 〈◊〉 . . . . iohn . . mat. . . . ●y . . . ioh. . . cor. heb. . . iam. . . 〈◊〉 . . . ● . . tym. pet. . . pet. . . act. . ▪ antychrist and his persequtiō shal bee made low . . thes . . gal. . . cor. . . a free disputation against pretended liberty of conscience tending to resolve doubts moved by mr. john goodwin, john baptist, dr. jer. taylor, the belgick arminians, socinians, and other authors contending for lawlesse liberty, or licentious toleration of sects and heresies. / by samuel rutherfurd professor of divinity in the university of st. andrews. rutherford, samuel, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing r thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a free disputation against pretended liberty of conscience tending to resolve doubts moved by mr. john goodwin, john baptist, dr. jer. taylor, the belgick arminians, socinians, and other authors contending for lawlesse liberty, or licentious toleration of sects and heresies. / by samuel rutherfurd professor of divinity in the university of st. andrews. rutherford, samuel, ?- . [ ], , - , - , - , - , - , [ ] p. printed by r.i. for andrew crook, and are to be sold at his shop, at the signe of the green dragon in st. pauls church-yard, london : mdcil. 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pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a free disputation against pretended liberty of conscience tending to resolve doubts moved by mr. john goodwin , john baptist , dr. jer. taylor , the belgick arminians , socinians , and other authors contending for lawlesse liberty , or licentious toleration of sects and heresies . by samuel rutherfurd professor of divinity in the university of st. andrews . psalm . . . and i will walk at liberty , for i seek thy precepts . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 london , printed by r. i. for andrew crook , and are to be sold at his shop , at the signe of the green dragon in st. pauls church-yard . mdcil . to the godly and unpartiall reader . i offer ( worthy reader ) to your unpartiall and ingenuous censure these my ensuing thoughts against liberty of conscience , from which way looking to me with a face of atheisme , i call the adversaries , libertines , not intending to reach a blow to any godly man , or to wound those who out of weaknesse are captived with that error , but to breed in the hearts of the godly a detestation of that way , which in truth hath its rise from libertinisme , and savoureth rankly of wide , loose and bold atheisticall thoughts of the majesty of god , as if our conscience had a prerogative royall beside a rule ; yea ( which is prodigious ) in its simple apprehensions of god , of the mediator , of the revealed will of god , above the law of god : for . this way bringeth in aristotles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the worlds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so i thinke , and all say so , and our faith and hope must be resolved in the first principle of scepticisme . so it seems to me , for the young daughters of the minde , the simple acts of apprehending , knowing , beleeving god and divine truths are innocent , harmelesse and ill-lesse foul-works , being from under all dominion of either free-will or a divine law , and the minde , a free borne absolute princesse , can no more incur guiltinesse in its operations about an infinite sovereigne god , and his revealed will , by this lawlesse way , then the fire can in burning , the sunne it inlightning , the stone in moving downward , be arraigned of any breach of law , if toleration have place . . all certainty of beleeving , all stedfastnesse , rooting , and unmovable establishing in the truth , all life of consolations and comforts in the scriptures , all peace of heavenly confidence , all joy unspeakable and full of glory , all lively hope , all patient and submissive waiting for the fruits of the harvest , all wrestling in prayer , all gloriation in tribulation , and all triumphing in praising , all rejoycing in spirit , being bottomed on fallible opinions , on doubtfull disputations of scepticks , may be the reelings of wind-mills , fair phansies , and dream● ; for who ( say they ) is infallible : and who hath known the minde of the lord ? so as the truth must be monopolized to any one sect , or way ? who in faith or fulnesse of assurance can convince or rebuke gainsayers , hereticks , or such as bring another doctrine , and may not you the convincers and rebukers , as rather be gainsayers and hereticks , and such as bring another doctrine , as those whom you so labour to convince and rebuke ? . conscience is hereby made every mans rule , umpire , judge , bible , and his god , which if he follow , he is but at the worst , a godly , pious , holy hereticke , who feareth his conscience more then his creator , and is to be judged of you a saint . . hence conscience being deified , all rebuking , exhorting , counter-arguing , yea all the ministery of the gospel must be laid aside ; no man must judge brother idolater , or brother familst , or saints to be socinians , or men of corrupt mindes , perverse disputers , vain-janglers , wresters , rackers , or torturers of scripture , whose words eat as a canker , who subvert whole houses , who speake the visions of their owne head , and see false burdens , for all these were of old , but are now quite gone out of the world ; for who can make a window in any mans soule , and see there heart-obstinacy which only doth essentially constitute the heretick , the blasphemer , the false prophet ? but is not brotherly forbearance , christian indulgence a debt we owe to brethren , saints , and the truly godly in errours , and mind-infirmities , which by a naturall emanation or resultance get the fore-start of freewill ? to which i shall speak in these few considerations . . it is much to be desired with the prayers and suits of the children of god , that where there are two opinions , there may be one heart , that the father of spirits would unite the hearts of all the children of one father , and the heirs of one house . . papists here have exceeded in boundlesse domination and tyranny over the consciences of men : and what ever is contrary to the lawlesse decrees of their councells and popes , is an unexpiable heresie , and cannot be purged but by fire and fagot . . who ever refuse subjection of conscience to that enemy of christ , and to that woman-mistresse of witchcrafts , on whose skirts is found the blood of the martyrs of jesus , is presently an heretick , and his arguments answered with burning-quicke , this tyranny over conscience we disclaime ; yet for that ought , not the other extremity of wilde toleration to be imbraced . . we cannot thinke but all saints in this side of glory carry to heaven with them errours , mistakes , and prophesying in part , and the fairest stars and lights in this lower firmament of the church are clouded , and the benefit of the moon serves to enlighten the under garden of lillies , where christ feedeth , till the day breake , and the shadows flee away . and here brotherly indulgence and reciporation of the debt of compassionate forbearance of the infirmities one of another must have place . . yet so , as there can be no conflict of grace against grace ; nor can the taking off the foxes which destroy the vines , be contrary to the gentlenesse and meeknesse of saints in fulfilling the law of love , and bearing one anothers burdens , nor can love seated essentially in a new borne childe of the second birth be contrary to the zeale of god in withstanding to the face a saint looking awry , and walking not with a straight fo●● according to the truth of the gospel ; which way if heeded in sincerity , should breed more union of hearts , and be a greater testimony of faithfulnesse to a straying sheep , then our cruell meeknesse , and bloody gentlenesse in a pretended bearing with tender consciences under a colour of paying the debt of bastard love , while as we suffer millions to perish , through silence and mercilesse condolency with them in their sinfull depraving of the truth . farewell . yours in the lord jesus , s. r. the contents . chap. . of conscience and of its nature . the name conscience page . conscience the practicall knowledge ibid. conscience a power , not an act or habit p. . what sort of knowledge is ascribed to the conscience p. . of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . of conscience in relation to the major assumption and conclusion of a practicall sylogisme p. . the object of conscience p. . conscience to be reverenced ibid. of obligation of conscience , and the acts therefrom resulting p. . of witnessing of conscience , and self-reflection p. . the knowledge of our own state of grace , may be had by the fruits of the spirit of sanctification p. acts of conscience in relation to the conclusion p. . a conscience good or ill p. . a good conscience ibid conscience the rarest peece that god made ibid. a tender conscience p. . who ingrosse the name of tender consciences to themselves ibid. of a scrupulous conscience p. the causes of a scrupulous conscience ibid. chap. . conscience under synods , and how ; and that the conscience cannot have absolute libertie in matters of religion . how a synod compelleth p. . the conditions that libertines require to be in a synod p. . libertie to question every thing is licence ib. the church though not infallible , may determine infallible points ib. a confession , covenant , or synodicall decree , a secondarie rule of faith p. a ministeriall and publike , and a christian and private judgement and faith how they differ ibid. libertines give us sceptisme and fluctuation for faith p. there is need of interpretation and decision of synods . ib. that confessions ought to be only in expresse scripture words , is ●●●ther false principle of libertines p. ancient bonds of liberty of conscience p. the end of synods is not to remove heresies by any means good or bad , or to crush heresie so effectually as these heresies shall never 〈◊〉 heard of in the world again ibid. the necessity of synods p. pastors subject the disobedient to wrath , yet are not lords over the conscience ; ergo , neither are synods lords ●ver the conscience for that . ib. the subject of a synod not a sceptick conjecturall truth as libertines suppose p. the sence of scripture from synods beleeved truly to be infallible , though synods consist of men who are not infallible , as an 〈◊〉 pitcher doth contain gold and precious rubies and saphires in it , though there be no gold in the matter of the pitcher but only clay , cor. . . ibid. how a true decision of a synod is ever the same and not retractable p. though all truths be peremptorily decided in the word , yet is there need of a ministeriall and declarative decision of men , because teachers may deceive , and those that are taught are ignorant and dull p. men are to come to synods not as nullifidians but as ingaged for truth p. . synods may impose upon others and how ? ibid. ancient bonds or libertie of conscience stated p. the conditionall imposing of synods consisteth well with trying of all things , what libertines say on the contrary is naught ibid. conditionall imposing proveth the impose● to be no lord of the conscience . p. chap. . the church may complain of hereticks p. pastors are not out of their calling , nor apparitors , nor tale-bearers , if they complain to the magistrate of hereticks p. chap. . the state of the question of compulsion of conscience and toleration p. . opinions cannot be compelled , nor the mind or will in the elicite acts ibid. the question is , whether the magistrate may compulsorily restrain the externall act of the outward man in religion . ibid. shame and feare of rebukes , by pastors and church-censures have the same compulsorie influences on false teachers , that the fear of publike punishment by the synod hath p. . church censures are as compulsorie on the conscience , as coercing by the sword p. some externall actions of injustice flowing from meer conscience are punished justly , without any note of persecution by grant of libertines , and why not all others also ? p. ancient bonds of libertie of conscience p. discountenancing of men and negative punishing of them for their conscience is punishing of them ibid. ancient bonds p. . ibid. how religion may be compelled , how not p. one mans religion remaining in the mind and will , may hurt or benefit the man himself , not any others : but true religion , as it comes forth into acts of teaching may edifie and win others , and false religion may subvert the faith of others . ibid. the magistrate does not command religious acts as service to god , but rather forbids their contraries , as disservice to christian societies ibid. how tertullian and lactantius are to be expounded of forcing to heathen religion ibid. though we can compel none to religion it follows not that the magistrate may not punish those that seduce others to a false religion ibid. lactantius speakes of compulsion without all teaching p. those that are without the church are not to be compelled ibid. because the magistrates compulsion makes hypocrites it followeth note hee should not punish hereticks , for so he should not punish murtherers . p. the magistrate may by the sword curbe such impediments , that keep men from embracing the truth , according to augustine p. answer to doctor adam stewart ibid. impotencie of free will objected by master john goodwin , no reason why the magistrate ought not to punish seducing teachers , as of old the donatists objected . ibid. state of the question more strictly proposed p. it may as well be said because there be no expresse laws against murtherers , parricides , sorcerers , sodomites in the new testament , more then against false teachers , that therefore sorcerers are no lesse then hereticks to be tollerated . p. chap. . of fundamentals , the number of fundamentalls p. a saving disposition of faith to beleeve all truths revealed , though the man be ignorant of many , may consist with the state of saving grace ibid. three things among those that are to be beleeved . things simply necessarie . . simply profitable . . by consequence necessarie ; how the papists erre in these page some consequences necessary ibid. builders of hay and stubble on the foundation may be saved , and those that fall in murther and adultery out of infirmitie may be also saved yet there is no consequence ; ergo , the magistrate should tollerate both p. . chap. . errors in non-fundamentals obstinatly holden are punishable . obstinacie in ceremonies after full information deserveth punishment p. those that erre in non-fundamentals , may deserve to be punished ibid. to teach the necessity of circumcision , not an error formally & primarily , but by consequence fundamentall ; and the contrary truth not necessary , necessitate medii ibid. the toleration of all who erre in non fundamentals examined p. . queries proposed to m. joh. goodwin , who asserteth a catholike toleration of all religions , upon the ground of weaknes of freewill , and want of grace ? p. most arguments of libertines infer a catholike toleration in non-fundamentals , as well as in fundamentals p. what deductions the spirit makes in the soul of an elect knowing but a few fundamentals and going out of this life who knoweth ? p. . to know revealed truths of god is a commanded worship of god ? ibid. one generall confession of faith without a particular sense containing the true and orthodox meaning of the word not sufficient p. divers pious conferences betwixt us and lutherans ibid. they hate god and love blasphemies in the consequence who obstinately hold , them in the antecedent p. they may be false teachers and so punishable who erre not in fundamentals p. divers things not fundamentaly believed with certainty of faith , p. beleeving of truths revealed of god with a reserve , blasphemous , and turneth beleevers into scepticks and nullifidians p. beleeving with a reserve against the motion of the holy ghost p. beleeving with a reserve against the stabilitie of faith ibid. against the trying of all things , and spirits , inioyned by the holy ghost p. faith with a reserve against our prayers for knowledge and growing therein p. the holy ghost bids us not beleeve with a reserve p. to beleeve with a reserve contrary to our doing , and suffering for truth and faith p. two distinctions necessarie touching controverted points p. some things of their own nature not controversall , yet the deductions from them to our blind nature are controversall ibid. fundamentalls of faith most controversall to our blind nature p chap. . what opinions may be tollerated , what not . some far off errors may be tolerated p. schisme and actuall gathering of churches out of churches cannot be tolerated p. the place rom. . willing us to receive the weak , no plea for toleration p. phil. . . let us walke according to the same rule , &c. nothing for toleration . p. chap. . whether heresie be a sin or a meer error and innocencie , whether an heretick be an evill doer ? libertines make heresie a meer innocent and unpunishable error of the mind p. heresie is a sin as wel as idolatry though we could neither define heresie nor idolatry ibid. heresie proved to be an hainous sin ibid. the holy ghost contrary to libertines , supposeth undeniablie that hereticks are known , and so they are not known to god only , when he bids us beware of them , avoid them , bid them not god speed p. pertinacie may be , and is known to men p. heresie a wicked resisting of the truth , and yet not the blasphemie against the holy ghost p. libertines say that an heretick dying for his heresie hath no 〈◊〉 conscience , but a spirituall and heavenly end . p. the vain glory of the devils , martyrs who die for heresie p. spirituall stupidity and malice both together in hereticks and s●t●●s martyrs . p. some ignorance consists with the sin against the holy ghost p. chap. . of libertie of prophecying , of erroneous indictm●●● of conscience , that it is not our rule . who is an heretick to arminians , tit. . . p. none to libertines are hereticks , but such as professe a religion , which they beleeve with perswasion to be false . ibid liberty of prophesying taken in a threefold sense p. to desire false prophets to cease out of the land is no quenching of the spirit p. chap. . of indulgence in fundamentall or non-fundamentall errors . how the arminian libertines doe define an heretick p. hereticks to libertines only such as deny things knowable by the light of nature p. diversitie of opinions among them ibid. the punishing of men for publishing of fundamentall errors , and the indulgence of a toleration , yeelded to them though they teach all errors in non-fundamentals , a vain distinction , and hath no gro●●● in scripture . ibid. some murthers non-fundamentall in david which yet are consist●● with the state of salvation , should as well be tolerated , assome errors in non-fundamentals by the distinction of libertines . p. some non-fundamentals clearly in the word revealed , not to bee beleeved with a reserve , and others non-fundamentals with a reserve p. queries propounded to libertines p. why may not the magistrate lawfully spare the life of him , who 〈◊〉 of a libertine conscience meerly sacrificeth his child to god ? or why should hee punish with the sword , some acts not des●●●ctive to peace in the conscience of the punished , and not all acts of the same kind p. to compell men to ●oe against their conscience , that is , to sin , neither in old or new testament lawfull , deut. . and . p. there is the same obligation , the same formall reason ( so saith the lord ) of beleeving non-fundamentall revealed , and fundamentals , and the same necessity of divine command , not the same necessitie of means , called necessit●s medii p. chap. . of the obliging power of conscience . the state of the question touching the obligation that conscience layeth on us p. ancient bonds of libertie of conscience sect. . chap. . p. p. though the magistrate punish false teachers it followeth not , that he compells them to sin against their conscience ibid. gods way and manner of calling , is no ground why the magistrate should not punish false teachers . p. ancient bonds of liberty of conscience cap. p. . p. who is the selfe-condemned heretick , tit. . . ibid. chap. . arguments against pretended toleration . toleration hath no warrant in the word p. toleration inferreth sceptisme p. want of infallibility in the new testament , no reason for the toleration in the new testament p. toleration is against faith , hope , comfort in the scriptures p. toleration is against the ministery of the word p. rulers by the fourth commandment are to see all under them worship god p. proposals of the armie under sir thomas fairfax , . p. . ib. chap. . magistracie and perpetuall laws in the old testament warrant the civill coercing of false prophets . rulers as rulers , not as typicall rulers , punished false teachers with the sword p. typicalnesse did not priviledge all the kings of judah and israel to compell the conscience and punish false teachers as libertines say p. how typicalness priviledgeth men to such and such actions , how not p. seducers punished by bodily death p. punishing of idolaters and blasphemers of the law of nature p. how warres that are extraordinarie in the manner , and in some particular acts , may be and are in the substance of the acts , ordinarie ruler obliging us p. the law of god warranted by the law teacheth that false teachers and hereticks are to be punished with the sword p. the law of deut. . , . for punishing of idolaters p. there was no consulting with the oracle who should be put to death for his conscience in the old testament , but an ordinarie pay of trying such evill doers by judiciall proceeding and hearing of witnesses ibid. the end of punishing of false teachers with the sword is not their conversion to god ( ministers of the gospel only labour in that field ) but the not perverting of souls , and disturbing the safetie of humane societies p. sacrificing of children to molech punished with death by gods law , not as murther , but as spirituall whoredome ibid. chap. . cavils against coercive judiciall laws , for punishing false prophets in the old testament removed . laws punishing false teachers were morall , not temporary and pedegogicall p. power of fathers and masters in the fourth commandment coercive p. compelling to hypocrisie for fear of shame and reproaches , as guiltie 〈◊〉 compelling men with the sword , not to publish heresies , nor sed●●● others p. a third answer p. blasphemers and idolaters never were judged to die by consulting with the immediate oracle of god , as john goodwin imagineth , hagiomastix sect . , , , . ibid. we have as sure a word the scripture , as immediate consulting with the oracle of god p. want of infallibilitie should exclude all judges to judge , pastors to preach or write , synods to advise , because we cannot doe these with propheticall infallibilitie p. a twofold typicalnesse in the old testament , one meerly ceremoniall unreducible , another typicall , but of civill and naturall use ; the use of the latter ceaseth not , because it was sometime typicall , so is punishing of seducers p. seducers of old denied no other-waies god , then our false prophets now a-daies doe deny him p. ● not only those who offend against the principles of nature , but those that publish and hold errors against the supernaturall principles of the gospel : are to be punished by the sword p. such as sl●w their children to molech denied no more the word of god then our hereticks now doe p. there be false prophets now under the new testament as there were under the old testament . chap. . christs not rebuking toleration , and the law , deut. . vindicated . christs not expresse rebuking of the magistrates tolerating of heresies , makes not for christs approving of toleration of heresies , more then of tolerating the absolving of a murtherer at the time of the feast , or other crimes against the second table p. the laws deut. . three in number explicated , the first two were morall , the third ceremoniall for the most part p. thewars in the old testament warrant wars in the new , according to the naturall equity in them , but they bind not according to the ceremoniall and temporarie typicalness annexed to them page chap. . prophecies in the old testament especially , zach. . , , , , , . for punishing false prophets vindicated . the prophecies in the old testament especially that zach. . , , , , , . prove that false teachers under the new testament , ought to be punished with the sword p. so joh. goodwin answereth in his appendix to hagiomastix the prophesie zach. . and the house of david noteth not the jewes only excluding the gentiles ibid. master goodwins answer to zach. . p. answer of mr. goodwin p. it is not metaphoricall thrusting through that is spoken of zach. . but really inflicted death and bodily punishment ibid. chap . places in the new testament especially rom. . for punishing of false teachers vindicated . so john goodwin hagiomastix p. the ignorance of the christian magistrate in matters of religion , no ground why by his office , he ought not to know so far truth and falsehood , as to punish heresies , published and spread p. ordinary professors may know who are hereticks and who false teachers ibid. magistrates as magistrates , cannot judge all evill doers , for heathen magistrates who never heard the gospel , cannot judge gospel hereticks p. how christ taketh service of a christian magistrate p. ●● master joh. goodwin p. how master goodwin would elude the place rom. . to 〈◊〉 that false teachers are not evill doers p. ●● paul rom. . speakes of magistrates in generall , what they ought to be , not of roman magistrates as they were then ibid. roman well-doing and ill-doing not meant in this text p. chap. . the place tim. . , . for coercive power 〈◊〉 false prophets cleared the place tim. , , . explained p. ● we are to pray that magistrates as magistrates may not only 〈◊〉 but procure to us that we may live in godlinesse p. ●● rev. the ten kings as kings punish the whore , and burn her 〈◊〉 for her idolatrie p. extraordinarie punishing of hereticks , no case of the magistrates neglect , argueth that the magistrate ought to punish them p. chap. . exemption of false prophets from coercive power , is not christian libertie this libertie of conscience is not christian libertie p. a speculative conscience no more freed from the magistrate then ● practicall conscience p. ecclesiasticall censures as compulsory as the sword ibid. chap. . the parable of the wheat and the tares discussed and cleared . the scope of the parable of the tares , and the vindication thereof , p. the danger of punishing the innocent , in lieu of the guiltie , through ●●●stake , is no argument that hereticks should not be punished by 〈◊〉 magistrate p. the tares are not meant of hereticks , but of all the wicked who shall be burnt with unquenchable fire p. the parable of the tares , and of the sower , most distinct parables 〈◊〉 matter and scope p. ( let them grow ) not expounded by christ , and what it meaneth p. what is understood by tares p. ●●● heresie may be known ibid. what is meant by plucking up p. ●●● what is meant by the field , what by the wheat ibid. all the tithes of the parable must not be expounded , nor the time exactly searched into , when the tares were first 〈◊〉 p. how sins are more hai●●●● under the new testament , and 〈◊〉 god is now no lesse severe , then under the law , and a citie that will defend and protect a false prophet against justice , is to bee dealt with the same waies , as under the old testament , except that the typicalnesse is removed p. what ( let them grow ) imports p. how we are to bear permissive providences , wherein evils of sin fall out ibid. christ must mean by tares and wheat , persons , not doctrines , good and ill p. whether false teachers , if they repent must be spared , or because they may repent p. chap. . of the samaritam , and of the non-compelling of heathens , how the covenant bindeth us . the not burning of the samaritans doth prove nothing for the immunitie of hereticks from the sword p. how far we may compell other nations , or heathens to imbrace the true faith p. of the covenants obliging of us , to the religions observance thereof p. the word of god as it is in every mans conscience no rule of reformation in the covenant p. the equivocation of sectaries in swearing the covenant ibid. the author of the ancient bonds an ignorant provaricator in the covenant p. all morall compelling of hereticks , and refuting of false teachers by the word , is as unlawfull as compulsion by the sword , according to the principles of libertines p. the magistrate as the magistrate cannot send ministers but in a compulserie way p. how independents were insuared by presbyterians to take the covenant as the author saith p. how independents swore to defend the presbyterian government , and with tongue , pen , and sword , cry out at it , as tyrannicall antichristian and popish p. libertines make conscience , not the word of god their rule p. how appearing to the conscience makes not the word of god to be the obliging rule , but only as touching the right and due manner of 〈◊〉 obliged thereby . p. ● chap. . the pretended liberty of conscience is against the national league and covenant , the ordinances of the parliament of england ingaged by oath for a reformation of religion chap. . the place acts . . to wit , the counsel of gamaliel discussed , and found nothing , for libertie of conscience mr. goodwins unsound glosse touching the counsel of gamaliel , acts . p. ●● gamaliels argument proveth as strongly , that murtherers and adulterers should not be punished , as that men ought not to bee punished for their conscience p. ● the argument of gamaliel owned by adversaries , rendreth all 〈◊〉 fundamentals of the gospel uncertain , and topick sceptism●● all the most well setled beleevers p. gamaliels argument doth conclude , that we are not to oppose by arguments and scripture , any blasphemous way against the gospel immediate providence is not the rule of our actions chap. . whether punishing of seducing teachers , be inconsis●●● with the meeknes of christ , place luk. . discussed the lords not burning samaria with fire from heaven , luk. . is no colour for pretended toleration p. the case of elias calling for fire from heaven , and of the apostles , much different p. the meeknes of christ being extended to publicans , extortioners , and harlots , doth as well conclude , such ought not to be punished by the magistrate , is that false teachers ought not to be punished by him by places from the meeknesse of christ , socinians labour to prove the magistrate is to shed no blood under the new testament christs not breaking the bruised reed , would prove that hereticks are gracious persons though weak in saving grace , and lovingly cherished by christ , if the place isa . . mat. . , help the adversaries , p. christs meeknes not inconsistent with his justice ibid. rash judgement condemned , cor. . , . is nothing for pretended toleration p. that many through the corruption of their own heart , render hypocriticall obedience because of the sword , proveth nothing against the use of the sword to coerce false teachers p. ● matters of religion ●ught to be inacted by the law of princes & christian rulers , that such as contravene may be punished p. lawes of rulers in matters of religion 〈◊〉 only bind the outward man. ibid. the false teacher is to be sent to the church and pastors thereof , that he may be convinced before he be punished p. chap. . whether the rulers by their office , in ●●der to ●●nce , are to stand to the laws of moses , for punishing seducing teachers ibid. how judiciall laws oblige to punishment judiciall laws were deduced from the morall law p. true cause of war with other nations p. two kingdomes becoming one body , by a religious covenant , if it be mutuall , the one part may avenge the quarrell of the covenant on the other in case of breach p. the new altar erected by the two tribes and the half , beyond jordan , josh . . how a just cause of war ibid. christian princes laws against errors and heresies p. as constantine gave out severe laws against donatists , so did julianus the apostate restore temples to hereticks , and granted liberty of conscience to them , that so he might destroy the name & religion of christians , as is before observed , so aug. ep. . ●d donat. god only determineth punishments for sin ibid. the punishing of a seducing prophet is morall . the punishing of seducing teachers is an act of justice , obliging men ever , and every where p. false teachers in seducing others apprehend the hand of divine vengeance pursuing them , as other ill doers doe , and so it must be naturall justice in the magistrate to punish them p. the punishing of false prophets is of the law of nature ibid. idolatrie is to be punished by the judge , and that by the testimonie of job c. . who was obliged to observe no judiciall law , but only the law moral and the law of nature p. how the fathers deny the sword is to be used against men for their conscience p. church censures and rebukes for conscience infer most of all the absurdities that libertines impute to us p. that there was an immediate response of gods oracle telling who was the false teacher , is an unwarranted forgerie of libertines if heresie be innocencie , seducing hereticks ought to bee 〈◊〉 and rewarded the magistrate as a magistrate , according to prophecies in the old testament is to punish seduc●rs p. 〈◊〉 what mr. williams giveth to the magistrate in religion 〈◊〉 sufficient ibid. christian kings are no more nurse-fathers , isai . . . 〈…〉 true churches of christ , then to the synagogue of antichrist , according to the way of libertines p. 〈◊〉 the mind of divers famous authors touching the parable of the 〈◊〉 p. 〈◊〉 the parable of the tares considered p. 〈◊〉 mr. williams holdeth that the prince owes protection to all idol●trous and bloodie churches , if they he his subjects p. ● how the magistrate is to judge of heresie p. a magistrate and a christian magistrate are to be differenced , 〈◊〉 can or ought , all magistrates to judge of , or punish all hereticks p. whether peace of civill societies be sure , where there is toleration of all religions p. ● peace is commanded in the new testament , no word of 〈◊〉 of divers religions , nor precept , promise , or practise there●●●● p. 〈◊〉 no ground for abolishing of judiciall laws touching that point ibid libertines give us heathenish not christian peace under many ●●ligions p. ●● chap. . whether punishing of seducing teachers be persecution for conscience . there is a tongue persecution condemned by libertines themselves p. 〈◊〉 libertines persecute others for conscience p. 〈◊〉 libertines ought not to suffer death for any truth p. ●● the lords patience toward sinners in the old testament no arg●●●● of not coercing false prophets p. ● hope of gaining hereticks no more a ground of sparing them , then of sparing murtherers who also may be gained p. whether to be persecuted for conscience true or false he a note of 〈◊〉 true church ibid. no new commandments under the new testament p. 〈◊〉 they that suffer for blasphemie , suffer according to the will of god in peters sense by libertines way p. ● . chap. . whether our darknesse and incapacitie to bele●ve and professe , together with the darknesse and obscuritie of scripture be a sufficient ground for tolaration . our inabilitie to beleeve is no plan for toleration p. preaching of the word without the spirit as unable to work 〈◊〉 , as the sword p. heresies are knowable p. forced conscience as strong an argument against deut. . as against us p. the magistrate commandeth the outward man , and yet commandeth not carnall repentance and hypocriticall turning to god p. because we may abstain from heresie upon false grounds , it follows not that the magistrate hath not power 〈◊〉 punish heresie p. libertinisme of toleration is grounded upon the pretended obscuritie of scripture p. toleration putteth a hundred senses on the scripture , and makes many rules of faith p. john goodwin denieth that we have scriptures or any ground of faith , but that which is made of mens credit and learning p. the means of delivering of scripture to us may be falli●le , yet the scripture infull●ble ibid. reasons to prove that the scriptures our non have are the very word of god p. the knowledge of god is commanded , and the ●ind is under a law , as well as the will and affections p. the trying of the missals of gregory & ambrose was meer foolery speculative ignorance of things 〈…〉 p. the place cor. . , , . cleared and vindicated . ibid. doctor taylors mistake of heresie ibid. what vinciblenesse must be in heresie p. d. taylor maketh the opinion of purgatorie no heresie simple errors of things revealed in the 〈…〉 sins how opinions are judicable and punishable p. son-sacrificing upon a meer religious ground , is not murther punishable according to libertines way p. chap. . divers other arguments for pretended toleration answered . p. the magistrates ministerie is civill 〈◊〉 spirituall p. the laws of 〈◊〉 , cyrus , danius , the ratifying the law of god by civill punishments , were the dutie of magistrates ibid. artaxerxes made laws by the light of nature to restrain men from idolatrie page from punishing of false teachers it followes no● , that jewes and the idolatrous heathens should be killed p. 〈◊〉 differences betwixt punishing of false teachers in the old and 〈◊〉 new testament p. circular turnings from protestanisme to poperie proveth nothing against the punishing of seducers p. the objection , that the sword is a carnall way to suppresse heresie answered p. most of the objections from forcing of consciences conclude against the laws of god in the old testament , as well as against us ibid. the law deut. . levit. . &c. was not executed upon such only as sinned against the law of nature p. no need of a law , processe , judge , witness , accuser , or inquiring , in the written law of god p. ecclesiastical and civill coaction doe both worke alike upon understanding and will p. errors against supernaturall truth are not rebukeable , because not punishable , & contra p. libertie of conscience makes false prophets to be true , and such as shall dwell in the mountain of god p. 〈◊〉 four sundry considerations by which sins are censured p. the magistrate is subject to the just power of the church , 〈◊〉 church to the just power of the magistrate , neither of them 〈◊〉 abused power p. how the jews suffered heathen idolaters to dwel amongst 〈◊〉 joh. baptist would have us lesse careful of thereticall doctrines , 〈◊〉 cause we are elected to glory , then of other vile sins p. ● joh. baptist and libertines teach , that libertie of conscience the way to find out truth ibid. when the holy ghost forbids us to beleeve false christs , or to 〈◊〉 antichristian teachers , be bids us also beleeve and receive them 〈◊〉 saints , by the libertines way libertines make the judging of hereticks to be hereticks , a bold intending into the counsell of god p. libertines say god hath decreed heresies to be ibid. variety of judgements in gods matters a grief to the godly p. the punishing of heresies investeth not the magistrate in a bead●●●● over the church chap. i. of conscience and its nature . acts . . and herein doe i exercise my selfe to have 〈◊〉 a conscience void of offence toward god , and toward man this is a part of pauls apologie which hee brings out before festur the governour , he dare bring out his conscience before his accusers ; the subject of this part is conscience , in which we have , . the subject , conscience . . the qualitie of it , free of offence . . the int●●●nesse and perfection of it , in the first , table , as a religious man toward god ; as one of a sound conversation , in the duties of the second , table , toward man. . and that not a●starts , when 〈◊〉 good blood of godlinesse came on him ; but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , alwayes , at all times . . this was not a conscience to lie beside him is the wretches gold , which for many yeares feeth neither s●nne nor winde ; but it is a conscience walking in the streets , and fraction . herein , that is , in this religion and hope of the restriction , do 〈◊〉 or exercise my selfe , this field doe plow. . there is considerable grammer in the object of this exercise , i labour to have , to be a lord , a master , and anowner of a good conscience ; a conscience is one thing , and to have a conscience another thing , often the conscience hath the 〈◊〉 and lords it over him , or rather tyrannizeth over the judas , and the man hath not the conscience . and these five doe 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 , the length and breadth of a good conscience . therefore of conscience ; . of the good conscience . of conscience , a little of the name ; . of the thing . the habrewes expresse the name by the name of heart . 〈◊〉 which i grant does signifie the minde , understanding , will , and by a figure it noteth the heart , sam. . . and davids heart smote him . salomon saith to shimei , king. . . thou knowest all the evill that thy heart ( thy conscience ) is privie to . conscience is but knowledge with a witnesse : it s observed , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , conscience , a word used about . times in the new testament , is but once by the translators in the old testament , eccles . . . hence it noteth that a man hath a fellow , or ( to speake so ) a college-observer with him , and that is god who knoweth first , and perfectly the wayes and thoughts of a man , and his conscience is an under-witnesse , and an observer with god , but a dimme and blind beholder in comparison of god. . it is a knowledge not as large as that of the whole understanding facultie , but restricted , and in order onely to the mans actions , words , thoughts , the condition or state hee is 〈◊〉 , in christ , or not in christ . it so signifieth practicall knowledge that there is a verbe nifhal that signifieth to have a heart , or 〈◊〉 be practically wise , joh . . vaine man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would have a heart , or be hearted and wise ; and cont. . . thou hast taken away my heart , or , unheartned me , my sister , my 〈◊〉 . . the heart goeth also for a word that signifieth a picture , jo● . . who hath given understanding to the heart , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth curious ingtaving , wittily devised by the understanding , and it noteth an excellent picture , pleasant to see , from root that signifieth to behold , and to paint ; for all the inventions , pictures , ingraven works in the soule is in the conscience . sinners draw on their conscience and , heart many faire fancies , pictures , and ingraven peeces of devised pleasures . they use the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spirit for the conscience also . psalm . . . the lord saveth the broken in spirit . prov. . . a wounded spirit who can beare it ? for the word spirit in that language signifieth the whole soule 〈…〉 and the whole strength , marrow , courage , and 〈◊〉 of the foule , jo● . josh . . . there was no more spirit in them , because conscience is all , it is the good or best , or the evill or worst in the man , does he keepe conscience , all is safe ; doth hee lose conscienes , all is gone : it is the spirits , the rose , the onely precious thing of the soule , the body is clay and ●are , the conscience is the gold of the man. now touching conscience . i propose these , . it s nature . . it s object . . it s office . . the kinds of conscience ; and . the adjuncts of it , the libertie of conscience , and that much controverted prerogative to be free in opinions , and in religions , from bands that men can lay on it . conscience is considered by divines as a principle of our acting in order to what the lord commandeth us in she law and the gospel ; and it commeth here to be considered , in a three-fold consideration . . as conscience is in its abstract nature ; yet as it is in man only , i speak nothing of the conscience of angels , and devils . . as the conscience is good or bad ; for the conscience in adam , before the fall was in a great perfection , and the glorified spirits carrie a good conscience up to heaven with them , as the damned take to hell a peace of hell within them , an evill conscience , yet their was neither in adam , not can there be in the glorified , an evill conscience , nor any such accidentall acts of conscience , as to accuse , smite , tormen● . . conscience is considered as acting well or ill , it hath influence on the affections , to cause a feast of joy , to stirre vp to faith , hope , sadnesse &c. touching the nature of conscience . it seemeth to me to be a power of the practicall vnderstanding according to which the man is oblidged and directed to give judgment of himselfe , that is of his state and condition , and of all his actions , inclinations , thoughts , and words . it is first an understanding power , not an act or an actuall judgement . . it is nor a distinct facultie from the understanding , but the understanding as it giveth judgement , in court , of the mans state and of all his waies , as whether hee be in favour with god or no , and now whether he be in christ , or not , and of all his motions and actions within or without . but it would appeare not to be an act , because to oblidge , to direct to accus●● , are acts of the conscience , and therefore doe 〈◊〉 slow from other acts ; it is true , the thoughts , rom. . . 〈◊〉 said to ●●cuse , or ●●cuse , but by thoughts there is mea●● the conscience 〈…〉 not first thinking , and then accusing , but the conscience brething out the bad or good 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 longing and accusing , or of exercising and conforming though , and acts . all acts flow from either young powers , which they call potencie , or from stronger and more aged and indicated powers , which they call habits : things produced by motion , and motion it selfe , are the effects of the never ( saith amesing de 〈◊〉 ) cap. . 〈◊〉 . . ●●nd therefore the act of accusing may be from the conscience which is an act ; this consequence cannot stand ; the motion , and the thing produced by motion , is from the mover , true , but the act of moving is from the mover , as he actuateth his power , so is directing , accusing from the power in the practical understanding ; not from the act of understanding which is nothing in this case , but the act of accusing , and nothing can come from it self as a cause . . when the beleever or wicked men go to sleep , and put off their cloaths , they doe not put off their conscience , and though the conscience sleeps not with the man , yet doth it not in sleep , necessarily act by accusing , or excusing , and therefore remaineth as a power in man , not ever acting ; see malderus in . q. . disp . . ar . . . it s an understanding power , and belongeth to the judgement and understanding . esa . . . judge , i pray you , between me and my vineyard . it s true , some make it the inclination of the will , as henriquez , quodlih . . q. . and durandur may seeme not farre from it , . d. . some say it belongeth to both . but the will is no knowing facultie , the conscience is a knowing facultie , eccles . . . for oftentimes also thine heart knoweth that thou also hast cursed others . . there is more of reason and sound knowledge in the conscience , then in the whole understanding soule , it is a christall globe of reason , the beame , the sunne , the candle of the soule ; for to know god and the creatures , in out relative obligation to god in christ , is the rose , the blossome , the floure of knowledge , joh. . . to see god , and his beauty expressed in christ , and the comlinesse a●d incomparable glory of his amiable and lovely essence as holden forth to us in christ , is the highest reach of the conscience . i● conscience be so divine a peece , 〈◊〉 banke-full with reason and light , then the more of knowledge , the more of conscience , as the more of fire , the more he●●● , the more of the sun , the more light . then when phancie goes for conscience , as in 〈◊〉 by siasts , and new spirits gropling beside the word of god a new angel commended onely from n●wnesse , a white angel without , and a black angel within , conscience must be turned in a dreame . . noveltie can goe for conscience , our nature is quickly taken with novelty , even as a new friend , a new field , a new house , a new garden , a new garment , so a new christ , a new saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , delights us . . heresie goeth for conscience ; somes conscience phancie that to kill their children to molech , is a doctrine that entred in the heart of god , to command , jer. . , . . a conscience void of knowledge is void of goodnesse ; silence and dumbnesse is not peace ; an innocent toothlesse conscience that cannot see , nor heare , nor speake , cannot bark , farre lesse can it bite before it have teeth , such a conscience covenanteth with the sinner , let me alone , let me sleep till the smoake of the furnesse of hell waken me . if there be any sense or life , fire can bring it forthe ; a worme at the heart can bear witnesse , if it have any life . this conscience is like the service book , or like the masse , or the popish image , you but see these things , they cannot speake , nor act upon the soule . . the nature of conscience is further cleared by its office , and object ; which are the second and third particulare proposed . that we may the more distinctly speake of these , it would be cleared what sort of knowledge is ascribed to the conscience . conscience is not the simple judgement and apprehension of things , as things are knowable ; this is the speculative understanding , but it is the power to know things our selfe , and actions , in order to obey god and serve him . . but the question is , whether conscience bee a simple practicall apprehension of things , or a compounded and discoursive apprehension . to which i answere . . that as the speculative understanding knoweth many things without discourse , as to a pure head the sunne , heaven , nature of motion , and many things in its second operation and worke , as to apprehend the sunne to be an hundreth , sixtie and seven times more then the earth , yet it referreth both the first and second operations of the mind to know things by discourse , so the conscience as conscience doth apprehend in its first operation , god , christ , sinne ; and in its second operation god to be infinite , christ to be the alone choisest of saviours ; so it is consummate and perfected in a discourse or syllogisme by conscience , totally and compleatly in order to our practice and faith . as he that killeth his brother hath not life eternall . but i have killed my brother . ergo , i have not life eternall . so caine. and he that beleeveth in him who justifieth the ungodly , is justified and saved . but i beleeve in him who justifieth the ungodly . ergo , i am justified and saved . so david , paul. the knowledge of the major by it selfe is an act of conscience , as to deny and mis-beleeve the major proposition is an act of a blinded and evill conscience ; but the compleatenesse of conscience standeth in the knowledge of the whole syllogisme . hence they say , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the magezine and thesaure-house of the conscience , the habit or power that judgeth of the law of nature is the major proposition , or the principles of right or wrong written in the heart by nature , maketh the conscience in regard of the proposition to be called , lex the law. in regard of the assumption , or the second proposition . conscience is a witnesse , a spie sent from heaven to record all the facts , in whi●h assumption are included both our facts , actions , words , thoughts , inclinations , habits of sin or grace , and the mans state and condition . in regard of the conclusion or third proposition . conscience is a judge and the deputie of god ; and it is but one and the same conscience acting all the three , the acts of law , a witnesse , a judge . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the conserving power of the soule , is that facultie or power , in which are hidden and laid up the morall principles of right and wrong , known by the light of nature , and so is a part of a naturall conscience , and in it are treasured up the scripture and gospel-truths , which are known by the light of a starre of a greater magnitude , to wit , the candle shining in a divine revelation , and this is part of the inlightened and supernaturall conscience . of this intellectuall treasure-house , wee are to know these . that in the inner cabinet , the naturall habit of morall principles lodgeth , the register of the common notions left in us by nature , the ancient records and chronicles , which were in adams time , the law of nature of two volumes , one of the first table , that there is a god , that he createth and governeth all things , that there is but one god , infinitely good , most just rewarding the evill and the good ; and of the second table , as to love our parents , obey superiours , to hurt no man , the acts of humanity ; all these are written in the soule , in deep letters , yet the inke is d●mme and old , and therefore this light is like the moone swimming through watery clouds , often under a shaddow , and yet still in the firmament . caligul● , and others , under a cloud , denyed there was any god , yet when the cloud was over , the light broke out of prison , and granted , a god there must be ; strong winds doe blow out a torch in the night , and will blow in the same light againe ; and that there be other seeds , though come from a farre land , and not growing out of the ground , as the former , is cleare , for christ scattereth some gospel-truths in this chalmer , as joh. . . then cryed jesus in the temple , as he taught , saying , yee both know me , and whence i am . joh. . . but now they have both seen , and hated both me and my father . . this is a part of the conscience , because by no faculty in man , but by the conscience are these truths apprehended . . and when any in ill blood , deny such truths , as that there is a god , and parents are not to be loved , we all say such doe sin , and offer violence to their conscience . . sins against these fundamentals , cry vengeance with a more hiddeous shout , and cry , than spirituall sins that are spun with a smaller threed , for such goe nearer to put off humanity . the knowledge of the assumption is conscience as a booke or witnesse , and it is either considered as it is in habit , and keeps a record of the mans facts , or as in act , it bringeth them forth , and applyeth the law to the fact , and is called di●t●●●● , the enditement , and charge given in , this and this hash than done . now that conscience bringeth good or ill out of the 〈◊〉 that containeth memoriall , or cronicle or the mans 〈◊〉 cleare , as . the conscience can looke back and laug●●● solace it selfe at that which is well done , and bring it forth psal . . . o my soule thou hast said unto the lord , thou art 〈◊〉 lord. psal . . . i said unto the lord , thou art my god , 〈◊〉 ezekiah , like the man that cheareth himselfe with the sight of the gold in his treasure , esai . . . remember now , o lord , i beseech thee , how i have walked before thee , in truth , and with a perfect heart . or . it can looke back and purge it selfe , as david , psal . . o my god , if i have done this . job . . job . , , . chap. . , , , , , &c. . it can bring out evill deeds , as josephs brethren doe ; when they are in trouble . this distresse is come on us , for that when we saw the anguish of our brother , and he besought us , wee would not heare , gen. . . the knowledge of the conclusion is judgement , and the sentence of a judge . . for the second point of conscience which is its object ; this can be nothing but gods revealed will expressed to us either in the law of nature , or in the law written , or the gospel . doctor hamond saith , to abstaine from a thing indifferent as marriage , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as from a thing abominable or unlawfull , is by scripture and councels condemned as sinfull why ? because to marrie , or not to marrie , is indifferent . but he may remember , that papists forbid church-men to marrie , doe they forbid it , because marriage which to them is a sacrament , is an abominable and unlawfull sacrament ? i thinke no. yet all our divines say , not onely the manichaans , but also the papists are these , who teach a doctrine of devils , tim. . while they forbid marriage , though not under the notion of a thing abominable ; so the popish doctor acquitteth the papists , and condemneth protestants , who so farre agree to have the adaequate rule of conscience to be gods will reve●led in his word , that to make a religious law to forbid marriage and meates , and other things indifferent to them is a doctrine of devils , to all our divines , though they forbid them not as things unlawfull , and under the notion of things abominable . vse . if the conscience have an indictment against you from heaven , and from the word of god , which is the law-booke of the judge of all flesh ; ergo , we are to stand in awe of conscience . and looke how much goodnesse and true feare of god is in a man , as much feare of himselfe and reverence to his own conscience is within him . for . to be holden even with the charges and writs of an erring conscience is obedience to the law of nature , as we would not be willing that a scout , or a spie sent from a strange land should see our nakednesse , weaknesse , folly , securitie . when the conscience returneth , to the father of spirits , it can tell tales of men , and can libell many pollutions of the flesh and spirit acted by the man , while the conscience lodged with clay and a polluted spirit . . because conscience is something of god , a domestick little god , a keeper sent from heaven , a divine peece which is all eye , all sense , and hath the word with it , in so farre it is to be reverenced , and hath the reverenceth the king , reverenceth the ambassador , in so farre as he carrieth along the kings will , he that honoureth the lord must honour the servant . . salomon saith , prov. . . a foole despiseth his fathers reproofe , but he that regardeth it is prudent . vers . . he that hateth reproofe shall die . to receive instructions and rebukes from conscience , in so farre as they come from the word of truth is spirituall prudence , and he that turneth away his eare from his conscience , shall die . . as to submit to the word , is to submit to god , so to offer violence to a divine truth , is to wrestle with god , and by the like proportion to stoope before conscience carrying a message from god , is to submit to god , and to doe violence to the domesticke light and truth of god , is all one as to wrestle with god. . we count a tender conscience , such as was in joshuah , who did yeeld and cede to the law of god , and its threatnings , a soft heart ; then to stand out as a flint-stone or an adamant , against the warnings of an inward law must argue hardnesse of heart . . there is nothing so strong and divine as truth , a conscience that will bargaine to buy and sell truth , and will be the lord and conquerour , not the captive and taken prisoner of the gospel , bearing it selfe on upon the soule in power and majestie , hath his one foot on the borders of the sinne against the holy ghost . . it is like the man walketh not at randome , but by rule , who is not made all of stoutnesse , and ventureth not inconsiderately on actions and wayes which undoubtedly are the seeds or eternity , but feareth 〈◊〉 paedagoge and teacher in so far as the law and will of the judge of the world goeth along with him . v●e . because the word of god must be the rule of conscience , and conscience is a servant , and under-judge onely , not a lord , nor an absolute and independent soveraigne , whose voice is a law , therefore an iodolatrous and exorbitent rule of conscience is here also to be condemned . conscience is ruled by scripture , but it is not scripture , nor a canonicke book and rule of faith and conversation , it often speaketh apocriph● , and is neither god , nor pope , but can reele , and totter , and dream , ●●●scribe more to conscience then is just , and to make new and hold opinions of god , broad and venturous and daring affirmations , the very oracles of heaven , because they are the brood ( as ●s conceived ) of an equall and unbyassed conscience , is presumption , neere to atheisme ; the grossest idolatry is to make your selfe the idol : wh●reas tender consciences suffer most persecution , and are not active in daring , there is extreame pride in such as lead families and are christians in new heresies . some are extreamely sworne and devoted to conscience as conscience : humility is not daringly peremptory . many weake ones pine away in feavours of sinistrous thoughts of christ , as if his love were cold to them , esa . . . . and phancie an imaginary and a made-plea with christ ; oh he leveth any but me , and because they make an idol of the weak oracle of conscience , they make also an idol of meeke jesus christ , as if they would try , if christs love can be cold , and his blood and bowels can act any more mercy to them . the third is the office of conscience in one generall . it cometh under the name of obligation . but to come to particulars . there be two sorts of operations of conscience , some illicite and imbred , other imperate or commanded . these which be imbred are of two kinds . . such as conscience simply as conscience actethas in generall to oblige ; and in particular . . to direct ; . to discerne ; . to exci●e , dirigere , discernere , impellere ▪ others are such as issue from conscience , as good or ill ; as right , or not right ; as these in well-doing . . it approveth . . it excuseth . . it absolveth , in ill doing it disalloweth and reproveth . . it accuseth or chargeth . . it condemneth . these imperated operations of conscience , are such as conscience acteth on the affections , or commandeth the affections to act , but are not properly acts of conscience , nor of the practicall understanding ; but acts of the affections resulting from the consciences well or ill doing , as to rejoice , to grieve and check , and the like . but there be other acts that agree to conscience in order to the assumption ; others in order to the conclusion . in order to the assumption it specially doth be●re witnesse and testifie of its own acts , both that the man hath done this fact ; and . of the quallitie of it , that it is done against god , the mediator christ , free grace , the word of reconciliation ; as a faithfull witnesse must not onely depone the fact , but all the circumstances and quallities , in so farre as they come under the senses of seeing and hearing , and may aggravate the fact , and give light to the judge ; and what testimony the conscience giveth of the actions of man , the like it is to give of the state and condition , whether it be good or ill , hence these acts of recognition . as . conscience doth its duty in reflecting on it self : it tryes the mans actions and state ; hence these three words , cor. . . try , or tempt , or pierce , and dig into your selves ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , many dig holes and windows in the conscience of others who never digged a hole in their own heart , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , examine what mettall is in your selves and actions , men are unwilling to find oare or drosse in themselves ; and we are bidden , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lead witnesses , sentence and judge our selves . to these generals there is a second act , which is called , psalm . . . speake with your heart . you testifie little of the man that you never heard speake . men are frequently to converse with their heart by heart-communing , and soule quaerees ; so you find out the by as and the weight that swaies with the heart , jer. . . neither say they in their heare , let us now feare the lord our god. hos . . . they say not in their heart , that i consider all their wickednesse ▪ there is laying of the consience in its reflect act , and the actions together , hag. . . lay your heart upon your wales . it is that which david saith , psalm . . . i considered , heb. i thoughted my wayes . . there is wandring and estrangement of a man from his own heart , & when he laies his case to heart , he is said to return to his own heart . king. . . if they shall be thinke themselves , heb . if they shall return to their owne heart , or come home to their own heart , in the land of their captivitie and repent , then heare then . men are abroad in their thoughts , and seldom at home with their own heart . but of this act of witnessing of the conscience , it is of moment , to know how & by what medium , or way the conscience doth witnesse to man of his state , that he is a childe of god & in christ , whether god doth witnesse our state and condition to us , by inherent quallifications in us , because we love the brethren , because we have sincere hearts , and ayme in all things to obey god. a●er . . god speaketh by his owne works of sanctification that we are in christ , joh. . . and hereby we know that we know him , because we keepe his commandements . joh. . . we know that we have passed from death to life , because we love the brethren . now as god speaketh and revealeth his glory , god-head , power , and eternitie , by his visible works of creation , so as we may gather by certainty of faith , that god is glorious , wise , omnipotent , eternall , rom. . , , . psal . . , , , . rom. . , , , upon them grounds , when we finde in our soules the works of that spirit that raised the lord from the death , as love to the brethren , because brethren , sincere walking with god , and christs life , gal. . . we may with the certainty of faith , collect that we are the children of god ; and if the knowledge of our state in christ , from the works of sanctification be but conjecturall , and may deceive us , and not a sufficient foundation of sound peace , nor enough to make us unexcusable , that from the sicknesse of inward heart-love which i feele in my owne soule to christ , i can have no divine assurance that i am in christ , and cannot be made inexcusable in not beleeving the spirit dwelleth in me by his acting and working , then we cannot inferre gods infinite wisdome , omnipotencie , and eternity , from his works of creation , and i cannot be inexcusable , if i beleeve not gods wisdome and power from the works of creation ; is not the pertinacie of unbeleefe as damnable , when i beleeve not god acting in his spirit as sanctifying , as when i beleeve not god acting in this first workmanship of creation ? . in all the actings , motions , and walkings of the holy ghost in my soule , in the stirrings of the new birth , when the spirit of jesus maketh a noise with his feet walking , acting , moving in love , joy , peace , long-suffering , gentlenesse , goodnesse , meeknesse , temperance , which are apples and blossomes which grow on the tree of life , gal. . , . it were no sinne to me to sleepe and beleeve these were but imaginary dreames , and phancied notions , if i ware not to beleeve where these are , the soule that findeth them undenyably is in christ . . the saints comforting themselves in their godly , sincere , and blamelesse walking before god in love , knew what they spoke , and what spirit was in them , and that they walked not after the flesh , as men speake and phancie in a night dreame , not knowing whether they be in christ , or not ; these were speeches of waking men , whose wits were in action . psalm . . . lord i have loved thy habitation , and the place where thine honour dwelleth . psal . . . i am a companion of all them that feare thee ; and of them that keepe thy precepts . vers . . o how love i thy law ! it is my meditation all the day . vers . . how sweet are thy words unto my taste ! yea sweeter then honey to my mouth . vers . . thy testimonies have i taken as an heritage for ever : for they are the rejoycing of my heart . vers . . i rejoyce at thy word , as one that findeth 〈◊〉 great spoile : and the church , cant. . . i sate downe under his shaddow , and his fruit was sweet to my taste . ver . . stay me with flagons and comfort mee with apples , for i am sick of love . esay . . with my soule have i desired thee in the night : yea with my spirit within me , i will seeke thee early . and ezekiah looking to his good conscience , saith . ezech. . remember now , o lord , that i have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart . so paul , cor . . for our rejoycing is this , the testimony of our conscience , that in simplicitie and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdome , but by the grace of god we had our conversation in the world , and more abundantly to you-wards . now if the saints can thus speake with the light and perswasion of faith , before god and men , to their owne solid peace and consolation , then may they be perswaded by these fruits of the spirit , that they are branches growing in the vine christ , else all these speeches are but delusions and phancies ; and they must speake no other thing of themselves as vessels of the grace of god , then hypocrits 〈◊〉 reprobates may say of themselves ? for d. crispe , and also libertines of new england , whose doctrine subverts the faith , say , there can be no marks of saving grace from whence we can draw either comfort or peace , be it universall obedience , st●●rity , love to the brethren , but it may bee in hypocrits , in a jew following the righteousnesse of the law , rom. . . and renouncing christ . surely if works of saving grace speake another thing then hypocrites and devils may have : then first , holy walking is no ground of comfort , and a good conscience hath no more to yeeld david , job , ezechiah , paul , the apostles , and martyrs , when they suffer for christ , and his truth , and are in heavie afflictions and chaines , then it can yeeld to the viledest of men . . a man , a christian shall never finde●ny grounds of certainety of his adoption in any thing , save in the hidden decrees of election , and reprobation , and in some immediate testimony of a spirit , which may be a great doubt to many , who walke as many antinomians doe , according to the flesh . . all their rejoycing in simplicity and godly sincerity , cor. . . is emptie phancies and delusions , for they rejoyce in that in which hypocrites and reprobates may have is deepe a share as they . but that there is also some immediate testimony of the spirit , though never seperated from the fruits of the spirit , i hope to prove elsewhere . the last act of conscience is in relation to the conclusion , which is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or judgement of all ; from whence flow the acts of approving , or improving ; excusing , or accusing ; condemning , or absolving : from these as the conscience doth well or ill , arise , . joy , called a feast , in which the soule is refreshed , not the phancie . . upon a solid ground , a bottome that cannot sinke , from that which is well done . . consolution , which is a joy in tribulation . . faith , going from what the man doth well , to a generall ; to these that walke according to this rule , peace . . hope , that the lord who hath promised will doe the soule good in the latter end , these foure issue from a good conscience ; from approving and ●●●cusing , but the affections which flow from improving , and ●●cusing , and condemning , are . shame , whence the man 〈◊〉 displeased with what he hath done , this is good when it looketh onely , or most to the sinne , or ill , when most to the punishment . . sadnesse . . distrust , or unbeliefe . . feare . . dispaire . . anger , vexation , or the worme that dyeth not ; it is no wonder that a greater number of troublesome affections ●low from the one , then from the other ; evill is fecound and broody . the . which i proposed is the second circumstance of the text , which draweth in the rest , and it is a conscience 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , free of stones or blocks , that neither actively causeth my self nor others to stumble nor passively is under a reatus or guilt before god , called a good conscience , to which is opposite an evill conscience . now the conscience is good , either in regard of integrity ; a cleane , a good , a pure conscience : or secondly in regard of calmenesse and peace ; to this latter is opposed a conscience penally evill or troubled , of which no more the good conscience is either good in judging , or recta , or vera ; the contrary of this , an erring conscience , which i speake of after the other ; or good in a morall quallity . in this meaning the conscience is good , which is first sprinkled with the blood of christ from dead workes , to serve the living god. heb. . . for by christ must the guilty be purged , that there may be no more conscience of sinnes , hebr. . . this is the conscience which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , good , tim. ● . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . purged and washen , hebr. . . in regard the great spot of guiltinesse is taken away , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tim. . . cleare , pure , terse , like a christall glasse , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hebr. . . good and honest , or beautifull and faire , a good conscience is a comely , resplendent , lovely thing ; and it is a conscience in the text , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , void of stumbling ; there is a conscience that wants feet , and is lame , and halteth ; and is alwaies tripping , stumbling , falling ; to this is opposed a conscience , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . let us draw neere with a true heart , with full assurance , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being sprinkled in the heart from an evill conscience ; and to this is opposed a polluted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , conscience , tit. . . the wisdome of god in creating the world is much , and most seene in creating so rare a peece as the soule , and the most curious peece in the soule is that lumpe of divinitie the conscience , it is the likest to a chip , and 〈◊〉 of god , though it be not a part of the infinite majestie , yet it smelleth more of god then the heavens , the sunne , the starres , or all the glorious things on earth , precious stones , saphires , rubies , or herbes , roses , lilies , that the lord hath made , now wh●n the floure and crown of the whole creation , which is the spirit , is corrupted , it is the fowlest thing that is : when the angel● , the sons of the morning , fell , and their conscience the spirit of the purest and most glorious spirits was polluted with guilt , though infinite grace could have cured this rare peece , yet infinite wisdome , as it were , giving over the cause , and grace and mercie standing aloofe from the misery of angels , a saviour is denyed them , and justice worketh the farther on this noble peece , the conscience of these fallen spirits , to destroy them ; god would not stretch out one finger to repaire their conscience ; but when the conscience of man was polluted , because grace has ever runne in this channell to worke upon free choise and arbitration , to save men , not angels , and of men , these , and these , not others ; therefore the lord fell upon a rarer worke than creation , to redeeme the choisest peece of creation , to wash soules , and to restore consciences to a higher luster and beauty then they had at the first . now what ever god doth no man can doe it for him , an infinite agent cannot worke by a deputie , and among all his works none required more of god , of the artifice of grace , and mercy , wisdome , deepenesse of love , then to wash a polluted conscience , there was more of god required to mend and sodder the jewell , than to make and preserve it . the blood of bulls and goats cannot be spoken of here ; now to make conscience againe fundamentally good , there was need that the most curious art of free grace , should bee set on worke to act a greater miracle on this choisest peece , then ever was before or after ; to make the conscience good , an act of attonement and expiation to satisfie infinite justice must passe , and by shedding of , and sprinkling on the conscience the blood of god ; the conscience onely , and no other way known to men or angels , could be restored . vse . we professe that the morrall washing of the out-side of the cup hath nothing in it of a good conscience ; morrall honestie alone , can no more inherite the kingdome of heaven , then flesh and blood . . a good conscience from justification hath peace and joy . prov. . . a good conscience ; or heb. he that is good in heart is in a continuall feast . it s an allusion to the shew-bread that was set before god alwaies ; or as exod. ● . . bread of faces , that was to be before the lord continually ; called by them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perpetuall bread ; this hath no fountaine cause , but sense of reconcilliation with god. . a good conscience is a complent intire thing , as our text saith , both toward god and man ; it s not to be a morall man in the duties of the second table , and a seepticke in the duties of the first table , not in some few fundamentals , as parrones for libertie of conscience doe plead , but in the whole revealed will of god ; and therefore the good conscience consisteth in an indivisible point , as they say , the number of foure doth , if you adde one , or take one from it , you vary the essence , and make it three or five , not foure ; so paul taketh in compleatnesse in it , i have all good conscience , either all or none ; and a good conscience toward god and man ; not a conscience for the streets and the church , and not for the house , and not for the dayes hosanna , and not for eternity ; therefore they require an habit to a good conscience , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have exercised my self to have alwaies a good conscience , there is a difference between one song , and the habit of musick , and a step and a way , psal . . . order , ( not my one single step , ) but my steps ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the plurall number ; to fall on a good word by hazard , & to salute christ in the by , doth not quit from having an evill conscience ; as one wrong step , or extemporary slip , doth not render a beleever a man of an ill conscience ; the wicked world quarrell with the saints before men , because they cannot live as angels , but the true and latent cause is because they will not live as devils , and goe with them to the the same excesse of ryot . . the formalis rates of all good conscience , as conscience , conscience acteth not on by-respects , but for conscience , rom. . . wherefore yee must be subject not onely for wrath , but also for conscience sake . conscience then doth all by 〈◊〉 , and fayleth by compasse , and considereth the 〈◊〉 not of the clouds , but of the starres which 〈◊〉 regularly ; whereas the evill conscience , levit. . . is said to play the reprobate in gods testimonies . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to cast away , to loath , it is called , jer . . . reprobate mettall which no man would chuse ; there is conscience that walketh contrary to god , levit. ● . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in occursu , there is a defect of the letter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word is from a root that signifieth to meet in the way , or to rafter or plank an house , where board is joyned with board , some will joyn issue with god , as if they had heardned their heart against him , and were nothing afraid to meet him , and joyne battle with him , as if they were good enough and strong enough for god , as one rafter in a house is apt to joyne with another , there bee some froward ones , who wrestle with god. psalm . . . with the froward , with the wrestler who boweth his body , thin wilt wrestle . but a good conscience knoweth god better then so , and is a masse of heavenly light , and therefore joyned with faith unfained . tim. . . and vers . . timothy is exhorted to held faith and a good conscience , as if they failed both in one vessell : if faith sinke , a good conscience cannot swimme ▪ much more might be added of a good conscience , but our care would be to keep conscience , as we would doe a jewell of gre●● price , and as we doe a watch of gold , a meat or straw will interrupt the motion of a watch , it cannot be violently moved ; when grace and the blood of attonement oyleth the wheeles of conscience they move sweetly and equally . some times its secure or dead , or ( which is the extreamity of sleepe , as death is superlative and deepest sleepe ) feared or burnt with a hot iron ; when the man hath sinned god out of the world , first as fooles doe , psal . . . and next out of his owne conscience ▪ and such a conscience in pharoah may awake per intervalla , and goe to bed againe , and be buried at other times ; it can discourse and argue away heretically the ill day & judgment , at other times it will crow furiously , and as unseasonably as the cock , which they say hath much in it of the planet of the sunne , and therefore beginneth to sing when the sunne hath passed his declination , and beginneth to ascend , when men are in deepest sleep . there is a second division of conscience , and it is from the second acts and good disposition of conscience , and that is a tender , or a not tender conscience . the tender conscience is onely choisest of consciences , so ● ames maketh it that which is opposed to an hard heart , the worst conscience that is ; we have some choise examples of a tender conscience , king. . . because thy heart was tender , and thou wast cast downe before the face of the lord : the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to grow soft is ascribed to oyle , psalm . . . his words were softer then oyle ; it is prov. . . tender and deare ; it is ascribed to young children , or young cattell , it s a conscience that easily yeildeth and rendreth to god ; so in job chap. . who was so tender at the remembrance of gods rising up against him to visit him , that vers . . hee durst not despise the cause of his man-servant , or his maid-servant , when they contended with him , and in david , who when hee but cut off the lap of the mans garment , who sought to cut off his life , yet his heart smot him : the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to strike , or kill , or plague , frequent in the booke of e●codus , god shooke every herb of the field . god strook or plagued the first borne ; it is some times to whip or scourge , so as the marke of the stroake remaineth ; after davids striking of the lords anointed , there remained an vibex , an impression and a marke in a soft heart . who ever would ingrosse the name of a tender conscience to themselves , doe challenge the high perfection of david , josiah , job , and of that which is the floure and garland of all godlinesse , and these that are not tender in conscience in some measure ( if any will thinke they have it in the perfection , they see little in their owne heart , ) are deemed prophane , irreligious , and men of bold and daring consciences ; so wee shall , and must yeeld in a question of personall interest , that these are the onely perfectists , and tender consciences who are for tolleration of all religions , and are professed antinomians , arrians , arminians , socinians , and such like . but the ●●●y shall reveale every mans worke what it is . it cannot be denyed but the more tenderness , the more of god , and the more of conscience ; but by tendernesse is meant feare and awsomeness of sinne , so no question , there is some conscience that is made of glasse , and is easily broken , and some of iron and bra●● lay hell on it , let christ say to juda● in his face , he shall betrary his master , and hee hath a devill , yet his conscience doth not crow before day light , to waken him . but give no leave to contend for our righteousness , wee beleeve wee have found a ransome , and yet we hold that tolleration of all religions is not farre from blasphemy , and therefore to any way to monopolize the tytle of tender consciences to themselves , as a characteristical note to difference them from presbyterians , & such as dare not , out of the feare of god , and reverence to their owne conscience , in this point awing them , but judge liberty of conscience fleshie liberty , in that title , seem to hold forth no tenderness of conscience at all , except they allow us to share with them in the name of tender consciences . which name i durst no more take then to call my selfe a perfectist , or holier then my brethren , whereas its more congruous to thinke and call our selves , the chiefe of sinners . to bee bold with the scriptures , and to dispence with new dreames touching god , christ and the mysteries of the gospel , in all heresies and blasphemies that they may be tollerated , is boldnesse of conscience . . pertinacie after conviction , and then to say , wee cannot come up to the rule , when the truth is , we will not come up to the rule , is no tenderness . . a tender conscience feareth an oath , and dare not say , every man may sweare a covenant with god in his owne sense , yes , it s a jesuites conscience . . to carry on a designe under pretence of religion , with lyes , breaking of oathes , treaties , promises , is a farre other thing then tenderness . . how antinomians , who deny that the regenerate have any conscience of sinne , or that they are to confess , or bee grieved in conscience , for incests , adulteries , murthers , rapes , oppressions , or the like , or can crowd in under the lap of this veil of tender conscences , is more then the truely godly can see . . to condemn all the godly in the three kingdomes , and the churches of new england , as not tender consciences , because they professe that liberty of conscience is atheisticall licentiousnesse , seemeth to be a harder measure then these godly persons deserve , who out of some tendernesse of conscience dare not but condemne liberty of sinning against the duties of this table ; and therefore , if tolleration of all false wayes intitle men to tender consciences , because it is the opinion of same 〈◊〉 men , why should not these who are also godly and our ●● conscience hold the contrary opinion , be also called 〈◊〉 consciences ? and if this be , we shall not know who they are , who are to be tearmed tender consciences , who not . but i had rather speake a little of a scrupulous consciences ; the scripture saith , the heart of josiah was tender , but that , he wept at the reading of the law , sure it was not scrupulositie , which is alwayes a fault and disease of the conscience , as when the conscience doubts and feares for triffles , where there is no grave and weightie cause . the place sam. . . in which abigal so speaketh to david , is not to be expounded of a scrupulous , but of a justly greived conscience . this shall be no greife unto thee , nor offence of heart unto my lord , either tha● thou hast sh●d bloud causelesse , or that thou hast avenged thy selfe . heb. it shall not be staggering , or stumbling to thy heart , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to offend , stumble , fall , to remove out of the place . isa . . . r●● . abraham reads it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they have made others to stumble , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nah. . . knees smite one against another : the one knee , in affrighted men , offendeth the other , and makes the other to stumble or fall . so in a trembling conscience , sin maketh the conscience to go out of the way , and fall ; as one knee trembling , maketh another knee in a race to fall . abigal disswadeth david from s●edding innocent bloud , or avenging himselfe on nabal , because so to doe should be no griefe of conscience . it s a litote . it shall be a feast and a rejoycing of conscience , that thou hast not sinned against god. and this is to bee considered , that a greived conscience , travelling with remorse , is 〈◊〉 so farre tender , that it either absteineth , if the sinne be to be committed , or it grieveth , if it be committed , and in the truely godly fo●●citeth for reconciliation . a doubting conscience is ignorant of the thing done or to be done , and inclimeth to neither ●●des . but a scrupulous conscience inclineth to the one side , but with doubting and a trouble of minde ; as the traveller walketh , but with some pain , as if there were a little stone in his 〈◊〉 . 〈…〉 moral . l. . c. . ● . mald●rus in . 〈…〉 . ● . amesius de conscient . l. . c. . the causes of a scrupulous consciences are , gods wish and 〈◊〉 permission . . sathans working and acting on a cold , 〈◊〉 ●ad bodily complexion . . ignorance . we●●nesse of judgements . immoderates feare troubling reason . . inconstancie of the minde . . and withall some tendernesse . gregori●● said , ●●narum conscientiarum est ibi culpam agnoscere , ubi culp● non est . it is one of the most godly errors , and a sinne that smalleth of grace . papists , miserable comforters , say , a speciall way 〈◊〉 be delivered , is to sub●●● your selfe to a superiours blind command . they say , a priest was freed of his scruple , when he obeyed bernards bare word , and trusted in it ; hearing that , v●● et mea fide confisus sacrifica , goe and upon my faith sacrifice confidently . it were good to use heavenly violence against scruples phantasie will cast in , i should not pray , because god hath decree● whither i pray , or pray not , the thing i suit , shall never be , 〈◊〉 it s good to turne away the mind from threatnings ; he tempted providence , who having a weake head , will walke upon the house top . in rovings and grinding of a ●●morous mind , unbeliefe will breake one linke of gods chaine , and that broken must breake another , and that a third , till the saith of eternall election be broken . as in a wall of foure squared stones not well cemented , loose and breake out one stone , that will breake another and that other loose a third , till the whole wall must fall : weaknesse can spin out threed after threed , one doubt after another , till the poore soule be taken off the gospel-foundation of consolation . chap. ii. conscience under synods , and how ; and , that the conscience cannot have absolute libertie in matters of religion . the conscience is a tender peice , and either the best friend next to the physitian who can whol broken consciences , or the saddest enemie : if sick , it is like an aking tooth , the more you touch it , the more it paines you . the conscience of its owne nature , is a knowing power of the practicall understanding , a● therefore no ilicite acts of the foule can be compelled , nei●●er can conscience act being muzled and forced ; but this 〈…〉 but that men and devills in their conscience 〈…〉 beleeve many things in some 〈◊〉 against their will 〈…〉 out of the naturall efficacie of conscience cannot 〈◊〉 , but ●ee must beleeve that there is a god , yet where there is a trembling , there must be some reluctancie in the will and affections . juda● must beleeve his damnation was approuching , when he hanged himselfe , but against his heart . the balgick ar●i●ia●s , who contend for libertie of conscience in all wayes , apol. . 〈…〉 . say , by determinations of synods violence i● not offered to conscience , as conscience signifieth a meere internall act of the mind , immanent or byding within the mind , but as conscience signifieth an act of the mind by which any doth beleeve 〈…〉 oblieged 〈◊〉 teach others which he per 〈◊〉 himselfe to 〈…〉 so the man is compelled by a synods prescription , to dissemble what he beleeveth he ought to professe , and which he beleeveth to be false . answ . say that the decision of the synod be agreeable to the word , the lord layeth on the coaction to all ; to beleeve and accordingly professe the truth , and that by a synod as christ saith , he that heareth you heareth me : so the coaction , such as it is , must come principally from god ; instrumentally from the synod ; but it floweth from both by accident , and through mens abuse , who receive not the truth in love , but for feare of shame , least they should by the godly goe for perverters of soules , act. . that they doe hypocritically professe what they ought sincerely to beleeve and professe , may we not say many men of corrupt minds beleeved circumcision to be necessary , and yet for feare of the apostles censure that they should be judged troublers of souls , lyars and false teachers , as they are judged to bee act. . . would dissemble ? and they are no other wayes by a synodicall truth compelled to lie and dissemble by shame and falling out of the hearts of the apostles and of all the godly the one way than the other ; in that case than in this 〈◊〉 . for there be but two wayes of working on the mind to drive men to bee of another opinion , one by feare either of shame , reproach or censures civill or ecclesiasticall , another by meere teaching and instructing . now for the libertie of prophecying that arminia●s require , and so the libertie of synods , let us inquire if it be true libertie . . they require a full libertie to every man without scruple or feare of danger , to declare his mind in synods , and to examine what is controverted . answ . it is in some respect commendable that hereticks be candid and ingenuous to declare , even , what their hereticall judgement and inditement of conscience leades them to beleeve , but a full liberty to question , in the synode , whether there be a god , or no , or whether christ dyed for sinners , ought not to be , for that is lycense , and hereticall lycense : a point controverted any may question : and these , that act. . held necessitie of circumcision , might seeke resolution of their arguments and doubts , but under pretext of libertie free of feare and danger , they have not libertie to sinne ; that is , after they are or may be , ( if wilfulnesse stood not in their way ) inwardly convinced , they have not libertie obstinately to presse sophismes against the truth , for this is an undenyable principle , libertie to sinne is fleshly lycense not libertie . armin. in controversies of religion which the scripture doth not evidently decide , what can certainely be determined by the church , which ever , and in every thing which it determines , is beleeved may erre ? answ . there is nothing that the scripture hath left simple , and in it selfe controversall . act●● primo the scripture hath determined of all things conteined in it , whether fundamentals or not fundamentals ; onely in regard of our dulnesse and sinfull blindnesse some things are controverted , and therefore the church may determine from light of the word some thing that was a controversie to the fathers ignorant of the originall tongues which is now no controversie . yea the fallible church may determine infallible points . this is a principle that libertines proceed upon , that men who are not infallible may erre , and therefore can hold forth to others no infallible truth . which is most false , for prophets and apostles , nathan , samuel , david , peter being deserted of the immediately inspiring spirit did erre as well as the church and pastors now deserted of the ordinary spins can and doe erre . for ●●ll men , prophets and apostles are 〈◊〉 rom. . yet they may and doe carrie infallible truth to others 〈◊〉 blind man may hold a candle to others . . by this reason pastors can preach nothing certaine in fundamentals , though faith come by hearing , and faith is of a certaine and determinate fixed truth of god , more permanent than heaven or earth ; why , because by this reason pastors in preaching fundamentals are not infallible . . nor is this a good reason , it is beleeved the church may erre in synods , ergo , it doth erre and determines nothing that is infallible and certaine in synods ; no more then this is a good consequence , david may sinne in praying , ergo , he doth sinne in praying : a potentia ad actum non valet consequentia . armin. a confession is not a rule of faith it hath not the lowest place in the church . answ . the covenant written and sealed in nehemiahs time was a secondarie rule of faith , and a rule e'n so farre as it agreed with the law of moses , for they enter in a curse and an oath to walke in gods law , not to give their sonnes and daughters in marriage to the heathen , not to buy victuals from the heathen on the sabboth , to charge themselves to give money to maintain the service of god. nehe. . . chap. . , , . , . , . which written covenant was not scripture ; and act. . the decrees of the synod was not formally scripture , yet to bee observed as a secondary rule . for so farre arminians a doctor as a doctor beleeveth not , a doctor beleeveth as a sheepe , not as a shepheard , and his judgement of matters of faith is not publick but private and common to teachers with every one of the sheepe : and there is a like and equall power in shepheard and every one of the flock of beleeving ; and the sheepe in matters of faith are no more obleiged to stand to the judgement of the shepherd than the teachers to the judgement of the sheepe ; the teachers have a priviledge of order and honor above the sheepe , but no priviledge of law and power . then the church though she beleeve and certainly know , that she erreth not in her decisions , yea though it fall out she erre not , yet ought not to take power to her selfe to command others to beleeve that to be true which she beleeves , or to impose silence upon others , who , cannot in conscience acquiesce to what they command . answ . there is some-thing true in this ; there is a two-fold judgement , one saving , and christian common to all by which both shepheard and sheep beleeve ; and its true of this , that the sheepe are no more to stand to the judgement of shepheards , th●● the shepheards to the judgement of the sheepe in point of christian beleeving , which ( sure ) is common to both shepheard and sheepe : for the alone authoritie of god speaking in his word . and so the doctor beleeves not as a doctor but as a christian . but secondly , there is another judgement that is ministeriall , officiall , and authoritative , and this is terminated not on christian beleeving , but supposeth a ministeriall beleeving ; that what the shepheard teacheth others god revealed to him first , and is put forth in a ministeriall and officiall judging either in synods , or in publick pastorall sermons and authoritative , but ministeriall publishing the will and mind of christ . mal. . . they shall seeke the law from his mouth . heb. . . . that way the people depends upon the ministeriall judgement of synods and pastors : but it s most false that pastors depends on their ministeriall judgement who are sheepe , and that there is a like and equall power in shepheards and sheepe , and its false , that though the church beleeves she erres not , and doth not erre , yet the church may not command and in synods ministerially and with all authoritie rebuke , such a pervert soules . act. . . and that doctors may not as the heraulds and ministers of christ rebuke men sharply 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they may be sound in the faith , tit. . . for pastors and synods teach fundamentals of faith ministerially to the people , and by hearing of them is faith begotten in the hearers , and they may command , exhort , rebuke with all long suffering , . tim. . , . tim. . . stop their mouthes , tit. . . and authoritatively enjoyne them silence . act. . , , , . act. . . though they cannot by reason of an erroneous conscience or a conscience burnt with an hot iron acquiesce to the determination of a synod ; yea though they bee unruly , vaine talkers and deceivers , they must be commanded to bee silent . nor must the church and angels of the church of thyatira , ephesus , or pergamus suffer jezabell to seduce , not ●avening wolves to devoure the flock , nor their word to eate as a ca●ker ; for this judgement authoritative as it is in the head of the church ( christ ) as in the fountaine and onely law-giver , so it is ministerially onely and by way of office in the elders , as the will and mind of the king is in the inferiour judge , the ambassadour or herauld , not in the people . and the people are obleiged to obey those that are over them in the lord , who watch for their soules , as those who must give an account . but there is no ground to say the shepheards are obleiged to stand to and obey the ministeriall and officiall judgement of the people : and of this it is said , he that heareth you ( ministers of the gospel , not the people ) heareth me , he that dispiseth you dispiseth mee . and this is more then a priviledge of order and honor , which one christian hath above another in regard of eminencie of graces , gifts , and of wisdome , experience , and age , it is a priviledge of office to speake in the name of the lord , and yet it is inferiour to a priviledge of law , because the lord onely imposeth lawes upon the conscience , for it is a middle judgement lesse then legislative , supreme and absolute over the conscience , this is in none save onely in the king and head of the church , and is royall and princely ; yet is it more ( i say not more excellent , it not being saving of it selfe as in beleevers ) than a priviledge of meere honour and order , for though it lay no more bands on the conscience to obtain faith because it is holden forth by men , it having no influence on the conscience because of men , whose word is not the formall object of faith , yet hath it an officiall authoritie from pastours ( which is not meerely titularie ) so as they may ministerially and officially command obedience to their judgement as far as it agrees with the mind of christ , no farther : and when it is disobeyed may inflict censures , which private christians cannot doe , and putteth these who disobey under another guiltinesse , then if private christians did speake the same word , to wit not onely in a case of disobedience to the second command , but in a state of disobedience to the fift command formally , as not honouring father and mother where as to disobey that same word by way of counsel in the mouth of a brother , though it be the breach of the fift command also , yet not in such a manner as when we refuse to heare the messenger of the lord of hoasts ; and his judgement as a messenger of god is publique and bindes as publike to highest obedience to the fift command , but as it is a judgement of faith common to the doctor with other christians , it bindes as the minde of god holding faith in the second commandment what wee are to believe . armmians . the word of god is sufficient for the deciding of controversies , its cleare , what neede it there of decision , if men acquiesce to the decision of god as it lyes in scripture — if the word of god expresse the sense of god , or if it have need of interpretation why is there not a free interpretation left to every man●● doe we think that our words are clearer than the word of god , we doe a ●●nithic injury to the word of god , if we believe that . how much better were it , if we would nourish peace and concord leaving interpretations free to every man ? it is most sure to containe our selves within the speaking of the holy scripture , and the forme of words of the holy ghost , and that no man be troubled who shewes himself willing to containe himself within these . answ . here is a meere fluctuation and septicism even in fundamentals and the faith of them , for all interpretation of scripture is rejected , there is no destinction in fundamentals or no fundamentals , for in principles of faith , that christ is god and man , and dyed for sinners , the scripture is most plaine , and what need then of our interpretation ? then let arrians and secinnians beleeve him to be god man and to die for sinners in their sense , the familists in a contrary sense , the georgians in another contrary sense , the papists in a third , the protestants in a fourth , and so as many heads , as many faiths , every sect , and man must have some sense , else his faith is non-sense , and if he erre from the sense of the holy ghost , the scripture is no scripture , if it be believed in a sense contrary to the scripture to him who so believes ; and so his faith is no faith , but a vaine night-phancie , and seeing the word of god gives us but one faith , and one truth , and one gospel , if interpretations be left free to every man , these libertines gives us millions of faiths with millions of senses , and so no faith at all . secondly , they give us two decisions , one made by god , and another by the church contrary to gods , that has no rule but every mans private judgement and free phancie , as if the decision of controversies made by the church in synods which we suppose is not divided from that of gods , were some other thing then the decision of the holy ghost speaking in the word and declared by the church in a ministeriall way , and if it be any other than this , it is not to be received , nor a lawfull decision ministeriall of a synod , but to be rejected . thirdly , if there be no need of a decision to expone the word , because the word is clear , & if we wrong the word of god if we think our words are clearer that gods , it is true , if we had eyes to see and apprehend the minde of god in his word , without an interpretation , then all ministerie and proaching of the gospel is cried downe by this , what have any to doe to expone the first principles of the oracles of god to the hebrews c. ● or what need they teach , exhort , preach in season and out of season ? what needeth the eunuch a teacher , or cornolius peter , or saul ananias to teach them ? had they not the scriptures ? if timothie , the preachers that speake the word of the lord to the hebrews , philip , peter , ananias think their words clearer than the word of god , they doe a great injurie to the word of god ; or if they beleeved their words were clearer than the words of esaiah and the prophets ; and they did that which was not necessary , if they opened and expounded the prophets and decided controversies ; for they should have acquiesced to the decision of god as it lyeth in the scripture , and not have preached but read the prophets , and left it free to the hearers to put on the words of scripture , what interpretation and sense they thought best . fourthly , that no confessions ought to be but in expresse words of scripture , shall free all one and consequently all churches from obedience to that which peter commands . pet. . . be readie alwayes to give an answere to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you , with ●●eeknesse and fear . when stephen acts . and paul acts . were accused of heresie and speaking against moses and the semple , they made a confession of their faith not in words of scripture , but in deductions and necessary consequences drawne from scripture and applyed to themselves , and these in nehemiahs time who wrote and sealed or subscrubed a covenant , did not write and seale the expresse decalogne and ten commandements , 〈◊〉 the words of the covenant of grace . i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , but entered into a curse and into an oath to walke in gods law which was given by moses the servant of god and to observe and to doe all the commandements of the lord our god and his judgements and his statutes and that ( say they ) we would not give our daughters to the people of the land , nor take their daughters for our sons , and if the people of the land bring ware or victuals on the sabbath day to sell , that we would not buy it of them . & nehemiah c. . v. , , , , , . &c. compared with nehe. c. . v. . which words are not a confession nor covenant in expresse scripture , save that they are historically insetted in the cannon of the scripture by the holy ghost . in which sense the law and decree of nebuchadnezzar daniel . and of other heathen kings as daniell . . . ezra . . , . c. . , , , . &c. are scriptures ; but they are not the expresse words of the law , for there is nothing in the expresse law touching the sabbath , of not buying ware and victual from the heathen of the land that nehemiah speakes of , which warranteth us to enter in the like covenant , and make the like confession of faith to defend and stand to the protestant religion , and that christ was god and man , and man in one person , and that we shall not buy ware or victuals from the anabaptist and familists of england who trample on the sabbath day though these be not expresse words of scripture . it is true , libertines say men have made apologies and confessions of faith for their own defence as steven and paul but they injoyned not these by authoritie and command as a rule of faith upon others , and wrote them not as a fixed standard of the faith of others , and that warrants no church to impose a faith upon others . answ . . this will prove that as one man accused of heresie may publish a confession of his faith which may cleare his innocencie and the soundnesse of his faith to others and remove the scandall according to that of pet. . . and by the same reason , independents , libertines , familists , antinomians , anabaptists and all the sects of england , upon the same ground that the albigenses went upon , should by some confession and covenant give an account of their faith and hope with meeknesse and feare . and what particular persons are obleiged to doe that churches when they are slandered as unsound in the faith are oblieged to doe : and so i looke at a forme or confession of faith as a necessary apologie for clearing of the good name of a church defamed with heresies , and new sects , but for the imposing of this confession upon others , these others are either neighbour-churches , or their own members . as concerning neighbour-churches they have no authoritie over them . yet may they declare that familists who say christ is not come in the flesh are the spirit of the antichrist , and for these , of their own church , if they goe out from them and separate to an antichristian side , after the example of the apostles and elders they may command them to abstaine from such and such hereticall opinions , and after they have convicted them as perverters of souls , proceed to excommunication against them as refusers to consent to the forme of wholesome words : as may be prooved from math. . , , . &c. rom. . , thes . . , , . and other scriptures as reve. . , , . v. , , , , , , , . now that it is not sufficient that they be put to subscribe a confession of faith in onely scripture words is cleare , . because the jews will sweare and seale the old testament in their own sense , but their sense makes the old testament to be the word of man , not the word of god. the sadduces acknowledged the five books of moses to be the word of god , yet because they denyed the resurrection of the dead , christ argueth them math. . . ignorant both of the power of god asserted in the books of moses and of the scriptures , especially of that scripture which god spake out of the bush to moses ; i am the god of abraham , the god of isaac , &c. exod. . . yet would the sadduces have sworn and subscribed all the booke of exodus as the undoubted word of god , but when they denyed the resurrection , sure these words i am the god of abraham &c. making the covenant of grace to dye when abraham dyed , and abraham to have perished in soule and bodie as they expounded it , was not the word of god , and papists will subscribe the old and new testament and the three creeds , the nicene creed , the creed of athanasius , and that which commonly is called the apostles creed . yet as they expound the word and these creeds , we say they transforme the word of god into the doctrine of devils and most abominable idolatrie , the greatest hereticks that were , arrius , nestorius , appolliuaris , macedonius , the treithite acknowledge the scripture to be the word of god , and will sweare and subscribe the word of god and containe themselves intra sacra scripturae l●cutiones , within the words of scripure . but their faith is not the saith of the scripture , and this makes ten thousand and millions of faiths where as the word faith there is but one faith . for arrius hath one faith , apollin●ris another , nestorius another , and every heretick a faith according to the sense that he fallely puts on the scripture , and all may sweare one confession of saith in scripture-words . arminians say , no man after he hath received a decree of a synod is longer oblieged to it , nor upon any other condition , but in so farre and so long as he judgeth in his conscience that it is true . answ . this is meere scepticisme , and to make the conscience whether erroneous , or not erroneous to be a bible and a rule of faith . for though the erroneous conscience say , it is service to god to kill the innocent apostles john . . yet the sixt commandement lyes upon these murtherers with equall strength , thou shalt not kill , otherwise they are nor guilty of murther . for if a synod decree to kill peter and john , because they preach that the son of mary is the messiah , is bloody persecution : then so soone as scribes and pharisees in their erroneous conscience ( for libertimes make exceptions of no consciences , an erroneous more than another , nor erring in fundamentals more than of another ) shall judge it service to god to kill the apostles they are loosed from the sixt commandement and no longer oblieged to this ( thou shalt not murther . ) so the authour of the tractate called armini . where mens scope is any way to remove controversies , there is there no care or little at all of the trueth of god , and where the externall peace of the common-wealth is heeded precisely , there peace of conscience is of none or of little value , the truth is not there perswaded , but crushed . ans . the learned and renowned professors of leiden answer the end of synods is not by any means good or bad to remove controversies but to burie them by the power of the word . . onely externall peace separated from truth should not be intended , but conjoyned with truth and peace of conscience . . the end of synods is not effectually and actu secundo to silence hereticks and gain-sayers of the truth , nor is it christs scope in convincing the sadduces that the dead must rise math. . to perswade the truth , so as there shall never be on earth sadducie again who denies the resurrection , for in pauls and in the apostles time the sadducies still denyed the resurrection , after the synod of jerusalem acts . there arose many that said we must keep the law of ceremonies , but the end of synods is to doe what may actu prime , remoove controversies and silence hereticks by clearing scripture , and truth , but the end is not to remove obstinacy that is not the scope of synods nor of preaching , nor of the scriptures , but of all these are in the event as god blesseth them and concurreth with them : the end of synods is not to oppresse or deprive ministers , the end of despised and obstinately refused truth is such . armini . synods should not ayme at setting up their own authoritie which in matters of faith is none at all , such decisions are the heart of poperie , and makes all religion without synods to be uncertain . ans . synods should take care that no man despise their authority , as timothie is exhorted by paul but their authoritie in matters of faith is conditionall , and so not nul . . synods are necessarie ad bene esse , not absolutely , for many are saved , both persecuted churches , and believers who neuer had help of synods to cleare their faith . . but none more contend then libertines doe for a faith as uncertaine as the weather which may change with every new moone . the same also may be said of preaching and a ministerie which the lord jesus ascending on high gave for the edifying his body the church , that religion is uncertain without it . for pastors in publick should convince gainsayers and so remove heresies . tit. . , , . . tim. . , as well as synods , and libertines in their conscience know protestant synods lord over the faith of none as if they took to themselves in fallibilitie as popish synods doe . armini . since synods may erre , how then place they religion in securitie ? ans . no otherwise then doctors and pastors doe place religion in security , by teaching truth and refuting errors and yet they may erre . obj. but pastours oblidge not men to receive what they say , under paine of censures , as synods doe . answ . vnder paine of divine if not ecclesiasticall punishment , and the one is that way as binding to the conscience as the other , yea more , for it is a greater obligation for pastours to subject men to divine wrath , if they receive not what they preach , then for synods to binde them onely to ecclesiasticall censurers and yet none can say that pastours exercise tyrannie over the conscience : for the former , ergo neither can synods justly he deemed lords over the conscience for the latter . armin. very often fewer , and provinciall synods doe 〈◊〉 mine more soundly then many and occuminical synods . answ . that is by accident ; one machaiah saw more that foure hundred prophets of baal . but this objection is against the saftie that is in a multitude of counsellers and in the exc●llencie of two convened in the name of christ above one . armin. decision of synods cannot oblidge men while they know that the decision was rightly made , it is not enough to oblidge any to consent that that which is decided be true and agreeable to the word of god , of necessitie every mans private judgement must goe before , otherwise it s an implicite faith . answ . that any man should duely , and as he ought beleeve , and receive the decision of a synod , it must be both true , and 〈◊〉 must believe and know that it is true , but that it may oblidge him and doth oblidge him , whether his conscience be erroneous or no , is as true , for then this commandement ( thou shalt not kill ) ( honour thy father and thy mother ) should lay no 〈◊〉 on a man that believes it is service to god to kill the apost●● , as joh. . some doe . for no man is exempted from an obligation to obey gods law , because of his own sinfull and culpable ignorance , for we speak not now of invincible ignorance of these things which we are not oblidged to know or believe . but if our sinfull and erroneous conscience free us from actuall obligation to be tyed by a law , then our erroneous conscience freeth us from sinning against a law , and ●o from punishment , for what ever freeth a man from actuall obligation freeth him also from actuall sinning , for all sinne is a doing against a law-obligation , and if so , then are none to be led by any rule but their own conscience , the written law and gospel is not henceforth our rule any more . arminiars . the last condition of a synod is , that the subject of a synodical decision be ever left to a free examination , and to a farther free discussion and revise . the learned professours of leyden answer that which is once true and fixed in the word of god , is ever true and fixed in the word of god. the arminians reply , what is true and fixed in the word of god is ●ver so , and ought to remaine so , for the word is beyond all danger of erring . but what is believed to be fixed and fixed and ratified in a synod is not so , because it is obnoxious to errour . answ . they require that before we come to a synod where fundamentall truths are synodically determined , we be as a razed table and as cleane paper in which no thing is written , and so must we be after a synod hath determined according to the word of god , that is be still scepticks and believe nothing fixedly , and be rooted in no faith , nay not in the faith of the fundamentals that are most cleare in the word of god ; for it is unpossible that we can beleeve the clearest fundamentals , as that god created the world , and christ god-man redeemed it , but we must beleeve them by the intervening and intermediation of ●ur own sense or the churches sense ; or the sense of some godly doctour ; now because all these senses are fallible , and we see familists put one sense on fundamentals , papists another sense , and all private men may doe the like , it is not possible that any man can be rooted in any faith at all by this way , for all senses are fallible , & though the scripture giveth clear & evident senses yet such is the hereticall dulnesse of men , that reject these infallible senses as false ; and those others that by their own confession are fallible and so can neither be established by the word , nor by the interpretations of men , though senses of scripture rendered by synods be fallible in the way they come to us , because men delivering them may erre , yet being agreeable to the word , they are in themselves infallible . and so the old and new testament in the way they come to us may be fallible , because printers are not prophets but may miscarry and dreame ; but it followeth not they are not the infallible word of life in themselves , when the spirit witnesseth to us that god , divinitie , transforming glory are in these books : as a spouse knoweth the hand-writstill , lovelinesse of a letter from her husband to be certainly no counterfeit but true , though the bearer be a rogue and can deceive . secondly , this answer still supposeth that synods do give senses contrary to the word of god , and so we grant they are not onely fallible but false and erroneous ; and are to be examined of new again in that case ; but we hold , when lawfull synods convened in the name of christ doe determine according to the word of god they are to be heard as ambassadours who in christs stead teach us , and what is once true and ratified in synods in this manner is ever true and ratified as the reverend professours say and never subject to any further examination , and new discussion , so as it must be changed and retracted as false . for this is to subject the very word of god to retractation and change , because a synod did declare and truely determine it in a ministeriall way to be the word of god. for what synods determine being the undenyable word of god i● intrinsecally infallible , and can never become fallible , though fallible and sinfull men that are obnoxious to errour and mistakes doe hold it forth ministerially to others : and it is false that we are to believe that what synods determine according to the word of god , we are to believe it is fallible and lyable to errour , and may an untruth , because they so determine , for then when a synod determines , there is but one true god , the principle of faith is believed to be subject to retraction and falshood , because a synod hath determined it to be a truth . but the truth is we are to believe truths determined by synods to be infallible , and never againe lyable to retractation or discussion , because they are and were in themselves and without any synodicall determination infallible , but not for this formall medium , because , so saith the synod , but because so saith the lord , it is true , new hereticks pretending new light may arise as math. . . and call in question all fundamentalls that are determined that are cleared in former synods , but it follows not but these truths are still in themselves fixed and unmovable as the pole-star , though evil men bring them under a new synodicall examination as familists doe now raze the foundations of christianitie , yet daniel and christ are innocent though wicked men accuse them judicially as deceivers : nor is it enough that libertines say it may be the word of god and the infallible word of god which the synod determineth , but it is not so to us , we are to believe it with a reserve , because we cannot know it so to be . but i answer this concludes not onely against a synodicall determination , but against all scripture , and all propheticall and apostolicall determinations in the scripture , for that there is one god not three as the treithits dreame , is believed by some to be false , by others to be true . yet undenyably it is in it self , true that there is but one god , nor is it therefore to be believed with a reserve , because the synod hath so determined according to the word of god : and this were some answer if we should teach that men should believe , because so saith a synod . but all the mysterie is , though a synod should determine a truth an hundred times according to the word , yet if the conscience say it is no truth , the determination of a synod doth not obliedge at all ( say libertines ) because the conscience according to the minde of libertines is the nearest obleidging rule , but any thing obleidgeth not to obedience and faith as it appears either true or good to our conscience , for to kill the apostles appears lawfull , to commit adulterie and murther appeareth good to many , yet are not men obleidged to kill the apostles , or to commit adulterie . armini . if a thing be determined out of the word of god by a synod , then was that thing before determined in the word of god , and yet that must be examined in a synod which is supposed to be decyded in the word , what need is there of a synodicall examination of that which is supposed to be lyable to no errour , for so must the word of god be examined . answ . what the bereans heard the apostle paul preach act. . , . was the verie gospel determined in the scriptures of the prophets , what then needed they try the gospel or examine what is infallible in private among themselves more then in publick synods ? this argument is against the apostles rule , try all things , and try the spirits whether they be of god or not , for sure these rules warranted them to examine paul , peter and johns doctrine and spirits and finding them to be truths decyded in the word to receive them , therefore after there is a scripturall decision it doth not follow that there should not be a declarative or ministeriall decision by synods and by pastours preaching the gospel . for this doth close subvert all ministery and preaching , and all trying of the spirits , nor is it hence concluded that we examine the word of god , as if it could be false , but that we are both in private and in publicke to examine and try whether that which is proposed to us as the word of god be the word of god or no : but wee examine and suspect the credit of men , who may and can lye . secondly , but this supposeth that what ever is brought under a synodicall discussion is false or at least fallible , which is a most false principle of libertines , and that nothing which is the word of god should fall under a synodicall discussion , to be tryed which is true : thus farre the word of god as it is the word of god is not to be tried , nor determined but in reference to messengers who are but sinfull men and can deceive , and to our dulnesse and sinfull ignorance , there is need that a ministerie and synods help us with declarative and misteriall declarations untill we be where they shall not need a temple . and what libertines say , the same said anabaptists , so bu●●inger saith anabaptists taught that the evangelist should be recited without words casting it ( that is without preaching ) and that every man was free to interpret the scripture as he will , and that the interpretation of scripture is not the word of god. so that the peoples conscience and private sense is their scripture and rule of faith ; we need not then scripture , every mans sense is his rule , which yet is not so good divinity as the heathen melytus accused socrates of , and thought socrates was worthie to die , for that such as the people beleeveth to be gods , he believeth to be nothing such , but thinketh there be some new dieties : and was it a crime that socrates thought the peoples lust was no good rule in divinitie ? armini . all should be admitted to synods because religion concerneth the conscience of all , or if it be confusion to admit all to come , yet should no decision be , except first all the church be acquainted with the businesse . answ . god never appointed all and every one to lay burdene and directories or lawes upon themselves as is cleare act. . god keeps ever that order in his church of some to teach and some to be taught , of some to obey and some to be over others in the lord : that before lawes bee made that concerne the conscience , there should be a reference of all made to the people , and they acquainted with reasons from the word of god before a decision : we shall not condemn , but it is nothing against us . armini . these that come to synods ought to be ingaged to be church , or to no confession . but every way free . answ . then such as convened in a synod in the church of pergamus and thyatira should not be principled in the faith of christ and his truth against the deeds of the nicolaitanes , with whom fornication went for a thing indifferent , or against such as hold the doctrine of balaam or jezabel , they must all come as indifferent to absolve as to condemn the nicholaitanes , and the false prophetesse jezabel . but paul and barnabus came to the councell of jerusalem as members thereof , being fore engaged to condemn circumcision as not necessary to salvation , and had preached against such a necessitie and yet were not byassed voters in the assembly and by this reason if fundamentals be to be established in a synod , and the contrary errours to be refuted , when doctours come to a synod they must leave faith and soundnesse of faith at home , and come to the synod with purpose to buy and bargain there for a new faith . and let all men come thither as scepticks and nullifidians , and goe so also away believing with a reserve , that that the synod hath determined , may be a lie . but as arminians take true libertie of free-will to be an absolute power to doe ill or well , stand or fall eternally , so they judge that libertie of prophecying is a liberty to teach , and believe indifferently either lies or truth , heresies or sound doctrine , whereas libertie to doe ill in any sense is licentiousnesse , not libertie . armini . the question is not , whether a man when he judges right can erre , for who can affirme that but whither either a man or a church who judgeth rightly according to the word of god , have any law or power to command and injoyn others to receive and believe , what they have rightly judged , and that without controversie , for no man is obleidged to receive and beleive a truth , which a synod unanimously or for the most part , hath truely judged , because the synod hath so judged , or sayth so . answ . but libertines make such a question , for they affirm that a synod doth never judge so rightly , but we must believe what they judge with a reserve , and so that what they determine is false , or may the next day be false . secondly , we conceive that god hath given to some one single pastour , and farre more to a synod of pastours and doctors a power to rebuke , teach , exhort with all authoritie . tim. . . to charge tit. . . them before the lord. . tim. . . to lay on burdens and decrees act. . . c. . . and that all that heare them believe and receive as true what they speak in the name of the lord , according to that , he th●● heareth you heareth me ; he that despiseth you , despiseth me . 〈◊〉 that will not hear an ambassadour as an ambassadour speaking from his master and prince , refuseth to hear the prince that 〈◊〉 him , yet we say not that they are to be heard without controversie as they object , that is , peremptorily , absolutely as if their word were the very oracle of god , but they are to be heard , but not but after trying and searching , and not but conditionally in so farre as they carrie the minde of god along with them , so that there may be an appeal to the scripture ; & place left for examining and trying of their doctrine whether it be so or not . another libertine saith , it is in vaine said , try all things , of a synod may impose : for either the tryall relates to a particular judgement to be made , and that judgement to a practice to be confirmed , or not , if not , as good not try , if i try onely for tryals sake , and if when i have tryed , i am but where i was , to will , i must be concluded by others vote and imposition ; if yea , then to what purpose is the imposition ? for if i approve it , the imposition is needlesse , if i reject 't is fruitlesse . answ . . there is no doubt , but trying all things thess . . relates to judgement and practice , nor is it more against the ministeriall and conditionall imposition of a synod , to you to try , then it is against the imposition and commanding power of the prophets , jeremiah , or others , or the apostles , paul act . or john. joh. . . for prophets and apostles impose scripture as paul did act. . on the bereans ; but conditionally after they finde it agreeable to the scripture , and the prophets and apostles , conclude by their vote and sentence , yet better you trie as not try . for this argument is more against the bereans trying of paul who had apostolike power to impose and place the poore bereans in the place they were in before they tryed , and so as good the bereans not try pauls doctrine , as try it ; for they are concluded by pauls vote , if they miscarry in their trying and finde , though mistakingly and ignorantly ( as this gamali●l argueth ) that pauls doctrine is contrary to the scriptures , are they not concluded under unbelief in refusing the gospel and in stumbling at the stone layed on sion ? sure they are . . if you approve pauls doctrine , the imposition , or peremptory command of paul to receive it , else he will shake the dust off his feet against you and leave death at your doore , the imposition is not needlesse , but the commanding power in the ambassadour of christ , be they one as a single pastour , or many , as a synod , is not needlesse but usefull and fruitfull , and is the power of god and the savour of life in it selfe . should an ignorant man say the commanding ministeriall power of the gospel which saith , except ye beleeve ye shall die in your sins , needlesse ? when it bringeth forth fruit . suppose paul say to elimas ( as in effect he did ) if thou wilt not beleeve , and cease to pervert others from beleeving , i will smite thee with blindnesse . if this imposing had wrought faith in elimas , as by the grace of god it might , had this imposing been needlesse the man might as well say : because this tree brings forth fruit being digged and branched , and pruned , therefore digging was needlesse . but he supposeth vainly that imposing and commands issuing from synods under penalties and censures are contrary to trying all things , because imposing concludes men under censures , though they trie the decrees of synods to be unjust , but the imposing of synods is conditionall , not absolute as libertines suppose , for after synods impose , if beleevers after trying and due examining , shall finde that truely and really the decrees are beside or contrary to the word of truth , the imposing neither is a just imposing , not any imposing at all . for neither prophet , nor apostle , nor angel from heaven , nor church can lay commands upon men imposing or binding under pain of censures to that which is unsound and false or unjust or wicked : and if people shall finde their decrees truly to be so after tryall they have power to reject them . and . the last part of the argument if i reject the imposing command of a synod , it is fruitlesse , is a poore one like the wit of the authour . for if i reject these imposing commands , when just and lawfull they are fruitlesse to me , and the favour of death as the despised gospel is : but not simply fruitlesse on gods part , is the argument supposeth , except the authour with arminians dreame that god intendeth obedience in all lawfull ordinances , but he cometh short of his end in the reprobate . but ordinances are not fruitlesse to god , for they prosper ever in the errand they are sent for esay . . . cor. . . . if they render men unexcusable , they are not fruitlesse , for they cleare the justice of god. . they that have right ( saith the authour ) and power of imposing , are lords of my faith , but so are not any men , the apostles themselves assumed it not ; for by faith ye stand . take away a christians judicious fa●th , and you take away his legges , his standing under him . answ . so doe all the ignorant and heady libertines in england argue , but not one of them had a head ever to prove this consequence . for the apostles had ministeriall right to impose and command in the name of the lord under paine of censures , yet are not either prophets or apostles lords of mens faith , but ministers and mere servants : it is just as if you would say such a justice of peace imposeth , that is commandeth you obey such lawes under penalties , ergo this justice of peace takes on him to be soveraigne prince and king over these whom he thus imposingly commandeth . . this imposing takes not away judicious beleeving , all is a beggerly suiting of the question . if imposing were a commanding that wee receive absolutely what they say , be it good , or ill , without examining the argument were concludent as god himself requires abraham to kill his sonne , abraham was without examination to give absolute obedience , and this proveth god to be lord of the conscience , for knowing his word to bee his word wee are not to examine it by the scripture or law of nature , because if we know who speaks , we are not to examine what is spoken . but though we know who speaks among creatures , be it a prophet , an apostle , an angel , yet must we examine both who speaks and what is spoken . . in vaine ( saith he ) did the bereans try the apostles doctrine , and unduelie were they commended , if that doctrine were imposed upon them . answer . it follows onely in vaine did the bereans try pauls doctrine , if paul tooke gods roome and commanded the bereans to receive his gospel hand over head , whether it was agreeable to the scriptures or no : the ignorance of the nature of protestant synods and of popish synods begetteth many ignorant and foolish objections in libertines . it is true papists say , their synods but impose ministerially upon men , not as lords of mens faith , but they take away what they give . for . they will have none to examine and try the decrees of their synods , which we leave to all . . though they say they propose nothing in synods , but what is agreeable to the word of god , yet wil they be the sole , & only infallible judges of what is the word of god , what not , what is scripture , what is the word of god in the breast of the church , and they must be the onely infallible expositors of the word of god , and what is agreeable to the word of god ( or which is all one to mens traditions ) what not , and so they by consequence make themselves lords over mens faith . which the apostle paul would not doe for he said not to the bereans , when you have tryed , whither my doctrine be agreeable to the scripture , or no , yet i and the apostles are the onely sole infallible judges both of our own doctrine , and of all your tryings , and you have not so much as a private judgement left to you . chap. iii. the church may complain of hereticks . the same authour argueth against the churches instigating of the magistrate against men for matters of conscience . ministers are not armed with force and it is not fit they should saevire per alios stirre up the magistrate against others , the magistrate is the minister of god properly for wrath . but it is fit for ministers to say as christ , i came not to destroy but to save alive . answ . the authour saith the question is not of transmitting of such things to the magistrate as belong to manners , but to conscience , as if an heretick failed against no manners . yet all his arguments prove that ministers should not complaine to the magistrate of ill manners and the scandalous conversation of any , and this he instanceth from the example of christ , who joh. . would not accuse a woman of adulterie . . the magistrate is as properly the minister of god for good , for the praise of well-doing , as the minister of god for wrath , and if the church should tell the magistrate his dutie , as watchmen should doe to all under their care ezek. . , , , . magistrate or other , if the magistrate spare the life of a murtherer , the watchmen are unfaithfull , if they complaine not openly and tell the magistrate he does not his dutie , and upon the same ground , if the magistrate must coerce with the sword seducing wolves and jezabels , the pastours ought to admonish him . and its atheisticall to say the magistrate is conscious of sins against manners , and of his dutie and obligation he needs no instigation . because no magistrate be he an achab or a david , but he needs be quickened to his dutie , and will send a murtherer away , and a bloody joab whom god will have not to live , and should the prophets be called instigatores , and savientes per alios , such as destroy mens lives when they tell the magistrate he is a murtherer and guilty of innocent blood , if he suffer the bloody man to live ? or should this be called tale-telling , and the pastor thrusting of himself into a more disaffecting office to be a tale-teller an apparitour or summoner of men to the civill magistrates court , he made such a poor man be fined and wife and children be starved because he is not of his opinion . what would this authour give an atheist leave to say ? but so s●ander free preaching or free synodicall complaining to the magistrate ? such a man of our charge is damned by his own conscience and devours the flock , as arrius and manes did , such a one is a bloody murtherer , a sorcerer , the magistrate bears the sword to execute vengeance on evill doers , and yet suffer known murtherers to live and be gray-haird , are ministers , who are to warn fathers , teachers , masters , judges , kings jer. . . nations , and kingdomes of their dutie , thrusters of themselves into a disaffecting office , and apparitours and summoners of men before civil courts , because they warne the magistrate of his dutie ? is this obtruding into another office to give warning to all to be free of the blood of all men ? this is like the speech of a wicked king amaziah chro. . . to the prophet who rebuked him , for seeking after the gods of the nations . art thou made of the kings counsell ? forbear , why shouldest thou be smitten ? i therefore summon this authour to compeer before the judge of the world , and give an accompt of this doctrine , for he speaks it against the faithfull servants of god of the church of scotland , who complained to the king of idolatrous seducers and semminary priests and jesuits , of bloody murtherers , of grinders of the faces of the poore and in●orrigible scandalous offenders ; whose wretched example was a shame to the gospel and brought guilt upon the land , that he might use the sword against such evill doers ? and should ministers be apparitours and tale-tellers either against such as deserve capitall punishment for sins against the second table as well as against the first table ? woe will be to him that calls good evill , and evill good . is the necessary duty of the calling of a watchman to warne the magistrate of his bloodie omissions , ( for so the lord calls it esay . . , . esay . , , , . prov. ● . . prov. . . and exhorts to it ) an over-doing ? and a tale-bearing ? he cites also the example ( p. . . ) of christ who would not accuse the woman taken in adulterie . what doth this prove ? ergo christ would not have faithfull pastors to complaine both to god , and to preach against rulers who punish not uncorrigible adulterers ? christ would not accuse her , he would not judge her . ergo the judges under the new testament who accuse , judge and condemn adulterers , are not followers of christ ? what can an anabaptist alleadge more to prove there ought to be no magistrates under the new testament ? adulterers must be tollerated : a minister should not preach that the magistrate sins in not punishing the adulterer . christ complained not of pilates mixing the galileans blood with their sacrifice to caesar , should therefore ministers not complaine though the christian magistrate suffer such blood-shed ? of the same kinde is that wrangling , prudent fathers encourage not their children to informe of one anothers faults , because it doth not nourish love . what then ? ergo ministers should complaine to the godly magistrate of no omissions at all ? i think by this divinitie , if one brother know his brother to kill his brother , he should neither informe father nor magistrate that the murtherer may be rebuked by the father or corrected by the judge , because that may hinder love , but let this wrangler answer , whither it be more reall love to the murtherers soul to informe against him , and more glory to god , more peace to the familie ; or to be silent and let his brother run to hell , and wrath lye upon the whole land ? it is but a losse of time to refute such weak foolerie against naturall reason , far more contrary to sound divinitie , for if pastors informe against evil doers out of desire of revenge , malice or hatred , they ought not upon these grounds to rebuke any sins at all , and we condemn the doing of good duties upon evill motives and principles . chap iiii. the state of the question of compulsion of conscience , and tolleration . the question touching libertie of conscience was never by us , nor any man , save libertines , themselves and ignorant anabaptists both of old and late moved concerning internall libertie remaining within the soule , as libertie to think , understand , judge , conclude , whither the magistrate can force men , with the sword to opinions , and cudgell them out of some into other contrary judgements , in the matters of god , for the magistrate cannot take on him , yea nor the church under the paine of censures compell any to think well of christ , or ill or antichrist . yet most of the senslesse arguments of the times are drawn from the immediate subjection of the conscience to god , from the nature of conscience , religion , faith , fear , and the elicit acts of the soul which cannot be compelled , yea in this meaning , we think god can neither offer violence , to minde , understanding , will or affections of love , fear , joy , because all these clicit acts cannot slow from any principle , but the internall and vitall inclinations of the soul , though the devils be said to beleeve against their will , yet not against the inclination of the understanding or desiring facultie . all the question is concerning the imperated acts and these externall , that is not touching opinions and acts of the minde , but that which is visible and audible in these opinions , to wit , the speaking , professed holding of them , publishing , teaching , printing , and known and externall perswading of others to be of our minde . so that the question will come to this whither the magistrates sword be to regulate our words that concerns our neighbour , as that we lie not , we forsweare not , to the hurt of the life and credit of our neighbour , that we slander not , raile upon no man , farre lesse against the prince and ruler of the people , but whether the words we utter or publish of god though never such blasphemies , and lies , because they come from the conscience ( as if truths or words we speak for or against our neighbour did not slow from a conscience either good or ill ) be above or beyond all swords or coercive power of men . it is clear the question must be thus stated , for all the lawes of the old testament ( which we hold in their morall equitie to be perpetuall ) that are touching blasphemies , heresies , solicitation to worship false gods and the breach of which the godly magistrate was to punish , command or forbid onely such things as may be proved by two or three witnesses , and which husband and wife are not to conceale , and from which all israel must abstain for fear of the like punishment . deut. ● . , , , . deut. . , . levit. . , , , , . but opinions in the minde , acts of the understanding , can never be proved by witnesses and such as neither magistrate nor church can censure . then we referre to all the godly , if libertines and anabaptists deal brotherly in affirming that presbiterians , persecute them , because out of tendernesse of conscience , they cannot come up to the light and judgement of their brethren in all opinions . . there is a tolleration pollitick and civil and spirituall or ecclesiastick shame and fear in punishing heresies either by the judge or the church , whither in civil or ecclesiasticall censures , rebukes , excommunication is an evil of punishment in both , as is evident , if we compare judg. . . where it is said , there was no magistrate in the land that might put them so shame in any thing . deut. . . with these places that speaketh of spirituall censures , in the feare and shame of them as . . tim. . . receive not an accusation against an elder , but before two or three witnesses , then an elder that is scandalous may incur shame of being accused , and mat . . let him be to thee as a heathen and a publicane tim. . . them that sinne , rebuke before all , that others also may fear . so the avoiding of idolaters , and hereticks . cor. . . tit. . . ● , joh. . gal. . . brings publicke shame on them . thesse . . then looke what forcing power the shame the magistrates can put hereticks to , and what compulsory 〈◊〉 it hath on the conscience and so should not be inflicted on men for their conscience and holding of heresies , as libertines say , the same compulsorie power hath concionall rebukes of pastors or private christians , and of admonition , excommunication or the avoiding of the societie of false teachers either by the whole church or by private christians , and the arguments proving the magistrate cannot punish for conscience in his politick spheare , doe also prove that hereticks should be rebuked sharply that they may be sound in the faith , contrary to tit. . . and that we should neither admonish them nor avoid their company which is absurd ; so they be more ingenious libertines who free false teachers and hereticks from both civil and ecclesiasticall censures , than these who free them from civil and subject them to ecclesiasticall censures , for ecclesiasticall compulsion hath no more influence on the conscience by way of teaching then politick or civil , and the arguments taken from the nature of conscience is as strong to prove that the church of pergam●● , ephesus , thyatira should suffer lyars , false apostles and seducers , such as hold the doctrine of balaam and jezabel the deceiving prophetesse , who teach and professe according to their erroneous conscience contrary to rev. . , , , . as that the godly prince should suffer them : nor can it be said that church-censures are spirituall punishments and so work on the spirit , and have instructing , rebuking and exhorting going before , but the sword is a bodily punishment , and hath not instructing going before . for i answer though these two punishments differ , yet they agree that formally both are alike compulsory of the conscience , and neither of them act upon the spirit by teaching and instructing as the word doth , so as excommunication of a heretick should have instructing and convincing going before , so should also the magistrate presuppose , before he strike with the sword , that the false teacher hath been instructed and convinced , and so he doth formally punish him with the sword , for his pertinacious perverting of souls . . nor can it be replyed that men should not be punished for either opinions , or for holding opinions that slow from meer conscience , when they publish preach and print them from no principle , but meer conscience , not for gain or a morsell of bread , or for preferment in the state or armie . to this i answer , lay aside opinions and answer me this , how the judges that are for libertie of conscience are not to punish some words except they would be guilty of persecution , to wit , such as these , the trinitie is but a fiction , christ is no more god then another holy man. yea , christ was but an impostor , and yet they punish words and deeds of the same kinde that come from meere conscience . the answer must be , the former words are from meere conscience and the publishers thereof will swear they hold them as the meere inforcing light and judgement of their conscience ; but these other words and deeds which the magistrate censures , are not from meere conscience . but i beleeve these that acted in the late controverted parliament and by vertue thereof , yea and many godly men of them that are punished by the judges and many of the godly that fled for fear act from meere conscience , and will sweare they did so act according to their sworn covenant , and to prevent a new warre : and that they did it neither for gain , nor for preferment in state or armie . and if it were referred to the consciences of most of the armie why they disbanded not when the parliament commanded them , but doe by their practices treat a warre to themselves and the land ( a judgement of god of all others the saddest ) when they have none to fight against but shadows and enemies of straw and hay ; i judge they would swear that they judged the charge of the houses against their conscience , and unjust , and that they hold up warres out of meere conscience , and to vindicate the oppressed subjects and for preventing of a new warre , and not for gaine or preferment . so the question is not yet answered ; why some externall actions of words and deeds comming from meere conscience without any carnall pretext , as they will swear cannot be punished , but violence must be done to conscience , so the men persecuted , and others that doe the like and speak the like from no principle but pure conscience , without any carnall pretext , as they will sweare , are punished and yet neither violence is done to conscience nor the men persecuted , for acting according to conscience and a sworn covenant . but they justly punished : if acting from meere conscience be the formall cause why men are not to be punished , it should hold in all such acts . . they seeme to me sick in the braine , who hold that it is an act of love and charity in the magistrate to restrain 〈◊〉 , socinianisme &c. and to discountenance such seducers , and yet bring arguments against all externall 〈◊〉 in matters of religion or compulsion in generall : a discou●●●nancing and a keeping of men from places , dignities , offices is the highest compulsion of penaltie you can devise . what arguments fight against any compulsion of the magistrate positive or negative doth fight against all . if it be lawfull for the magistrate , as for all other men , to doe all hee can for the truth as some say , and the magistrates invitations , recommendation , exemplarie profession , generall tuition , excluding coercing , are all nothing but words , these agree to all christians as christians and are nothing peculiar to the magistrate , the magistrate as a magistrate cannot request , he must command as a magistrate , and all his commands if disobeyed , are in order to the sword . . the question is not whether religion can be inforced upon men by the magistrate by the dint and violence of the sword , or onely perswaded by the power of the word , wee hold with lactantius that religion cannot be compelled , nor can mercie and justice and love to our neighbour commanded in the second table be more compelled then faith in christ . hence give me leave to prove two things . . that religion and faith cannot be forced on men . . that this is a vain consequence ; religion cannot be forced but must be perswaded by the word and spirit , ergo the magistrate can use no coercive power in punishing hereticks and false teachers . for the first , we lay hold on all the arguments that prove the word preached to be the onely means of converting the soule , begetting of faith and that carnall weapons are not able , yea nor were they ever appointed of god , to doing down strong holds , nor can they make a willing people : and lactantius said well , what is left to us , if anothers lust 〈◊〉 th●t by force , which we must doe willingly ? and that of tertullian . it is of the law or right of man and of his natural power what every man worships , what he thinks he should worship , nor doth the religion of one either doe good or doe evill to another man , nor is it religion to compell religion , which ought to be received by w●ll not by force : since sacrifices ( of worship ) are required of a willing minde . in which i observe . . tertullian speaks not of the true christian religion which is now in question : but of religion in generall as it is comprehensive of both true and false religion . because he speakes of that religion which by the law of nature a man chooseth , and is humani juris & naturalis potestatis : but it is not of the law of man or naturall power , nor in flesh and bloods power to chuse the true christian religion , that election is supernaturall saith tertullian there and else where often , as also the scripture joh. . . math. . . math. . , , . religion is taken two wayes . for the inward and outward acts of religion as seen both to god and man as lactantius , tertullian and others say , so it is most true . christians ought not with force of sword , compell jews , nor jews or pagans compell christians to be of their religion , because religion is not begotten many , by perswasion of the minde , nor by forcing of the man. again religion is taken for the externall profession and acting and performances of true religion within the church or by such as professe the truth , that are obvious to the eyes of magistrates and pastors , and thus the sword is no meanes of god to force men positively to externall worship or performances . but the sword is a means n●g●tively to punish acts of false worship in those that are under the christian magistrate and professe christian religion , in so farre as these acts come out to the eyes of men and are destructive to the souls of these in a christian society ; t is even so ( & not otherwise punishable by the magistrate ; ) for he may punish omissions of hearing the doctrine of the gospel and other externall performances of worship , as as these omissions by ill example or otherwise are offensive● to the souls of these that are to lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie ; nor does it follow that the sword is a kindly means to force outward performances , for the magistrate as the magistrate does not command these outward performances as service to god , but rather forbids the omissions of them as destructine to man , for example a physician commands fasting , pastors after the example of james commands fasting when judgements are on us , the physician commands it , in so farre as eating troubles the common societie of humours , members and temper of the body , and the physician forbids eating so as he will have no more to do with the patient , if he will disobey : and so trouble the temper of the bodie , which is the onely object the physician works on . pastors command fasting to be in sincerity for afflicting and humbling the soul under the mightie hand of god. so the magistrate forbids cutting of a veine or shedding of blood as a thing troubling the peace of humane societie , yet his command is not a direct means of preventing diseases in the bodie of a subject and for healthie living . but the physician commands to cut a viene and to shed blood for health and to prevent a disease , and sinnes neither against the magistrate nor god in so doing : so doth the magistrate not directly command going to church as a worship to god , so as his commands have influence on the conscience as the pastors commands have , but he commands going to church and hearing so as the omission of hearing harts the societie whereof god hath made him a civill and politick head : in this latter sense must lactantius , tertullian and others be taken , otherwise these words , the religion of another does his neighbour neither good nor ill in rigour , are not true , the ill example of others in idolatrie brings ill upon all the church . deut. . . yea and the fierce anger of god. v. . again la●●antius saith false religion cannot be compelled , but he denyes not that christians may punish blasphemies in true religion . . he denyes we may propagate the gospel among pagans with the sword : both which points we teach . there 〈◊〉 ( saith he ) of force and injurie , because religion cannot be compelled , the business is to be tran●acted by words rather than blowes , that there may be willingnesse . let them ( enemies of the truth ) draw the sword or sharpnesse of their wi●● if their reason be good , let it be produced : we are ready to 〈◊〉 , if they teach ( nothing more cleare then that he speaks of the pagans that would force pagans worship on christians : we beleive nothing of their religion whilt they are silent , as we cannot yeeld to them while they rage against us , let them imitate us , and declare the reason of the whole matter , for we ( christians ) doe not allure , as they ( pagans ) frequently object to us , but we teach , we prove , we demonstrate : therefore none by us are kept against their will , for he is unprofitable to god who wants devotion and faith : and yet no man departs from us when the truth detains him . but saith celsus fol. . if in the time of lactantius christians killed men for their religion , no man can doubt but lactantius in these same generall words inveighs against christians who would compell men to their faith against their will , and that he abhorres the violence of ours against hereticks . answ . these are of a wide difference , to kill blasphemers , and false teachers for spreading heresies and blasphemies , and to compell them by warre , and fire and sword to be of our christian religion . as i hope to prove , for the formers lawfull , ●he later unlawfull . it s true lactantius speaks of all religion true and false , that we are to compell none with the sword to any religion , but he no where saith that the magistrates may not kill open and pernicious seducers and false teachers who pervert others , for the magistrate is not to compell yea nor to intend the conversion of a pernicious seducer , but to intend to take his head from him , for his destroying of souls . and lactantius denyes religion after it is begotten , can be defended , that is nourished and conserved in the hearts of people by the sword , but by the word and spirit . those are farre different tormenting and pietie ( saith he ) nor can violence be conjoyned with veritie , nor justice with crueltie . and again , but as in religion , so also in defending of religion they are deceived , religion is to be defended not by killing but admonishing , others read , by being killed , not by crueltie , but by patience , not by wickednesse , but by faith . but here he speaks of defending in a hostile way , by killing those that will not be of our religion , be it the pagan religion and most develish not of defending the christian professors , from the infection of wolvish seducers , by the sword of the nurse-father of the church , who is to defend good men and to execute vengeance on evill doers . for in all this lactantius speaks of such a violence as is without teaching , parati sum●s andire si doccant tacentibus certe nihil credimus . but suppose some father : were in that errour ( as augustine was , but retracted it ) though , augustine 〈◊〉 we may compell man to the faith , yet 〈◊〉 of improper compulsion , and of donatists the such as are 〈◊〉 the church , whom he thinks the magistrate on 〈◊〉 to punish , which is not a compelling of the 〈◊〉 to the sound faith , but an act of justice in punishing him for his 〈◊〉 of heresi●s to the perverting of the faith of others . upon these 〈◊〉 is cyrilius saith , moyes law is one and he kingdom of c●●●t is wholly heavenly , and spirituall , and 〈◊〉 ●efore hath spirituall 〈◊〉 and spirituall armour : and therefore a spirituall not a car●●● sword to punish the enemies of this kingdom , 〈◊〉 christian men . but he speaks of 〈◊〉 without the church ( who as i constantly 〈◊〉 ) are not with warres and the sword to be compelled to 〈◊〉 the christian religion and therefore a●deth on the 〈…〉 did fight against amorites , canaanites and 〈…〉 with 〈…〉 of iron : but he speaks not of the laws 〈…〉 . and 〈◊〉 , in which death was decreed for the false prophet within the visible church . at 〈…〉 the fathers have 〈◊〉 with unsound emperours who have tollerated , 〈◊〉 , arrians , and jews , but that is no law for us . but the other point is that though these that are without are not to be compelled to embrace the true religion it followeth nto that the magistrate should not 〈…〉 prophets , or pernicious teachers such as baals 〈◊〉 , who openly 〈◊〉 the people of god to idolatr●● . . become the magistrate cannot , 〈◊〉 ought not to compell 〈…〉 lyars , to be 〈…〉 it with their own as well as they must be such externally , no more then he can compell them to inward fear , love , faith in god , and to the externall performances 〈◊〉 . but it doth not follow that therefore the magistrate cannot command externall acts of mercie , c●●astitie , selfe-contentednesse , and should not punish murther , adulterie , theft , robberie , perjurie , for to punish these makes many hypocritically peaceable , chast , content with their own , true in their word , as well as punishing false teachers and hereticks maketh many hypocritically sound in the faith so augustine contra petilian . l. . c. . . there is no ground in scripture to say that because the canaanites erred against the duties of the first table onely , that therefore israel was to destroy them in warre . for joshua . , , . the contrarie is clear , joshua made warre with them , because god having hardened their heart they came out in battle against israel : and so the cause of the warre was not religion and their madnesse of idolatrie ( though on the lords part it was a provoking cause ) but violence in invading an harmelesse and innocent people , so ioshua and israel compelled them not to embrace the true religion , then from thence it cannot follow therefore no lawes were to be made against the false prophets and blasphemer . and if that consequence was null then , it cannot be strong now . so we say under the new testament : we cannot bring in to the faith the heathen and pagans by violence and the sword , it follows not ergo , no blasphemer within the visible church should be forced . . violence and the sword is no means to work men to subjection to christ , it follows not , ergo because the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , but spirituall cor. . . . the apostle should not say shall i come unto you with the rod or in love , or in the spirit of meeknesse . . cor. . . and therefore he should not deliver any to sathan . . nor is this a good consequence , because the fear of bodily death or punishment by the sword cannot convert , therefore it cannot terrifie men from externall blasphemie and tempting of others to false worship , for the externall man his words , solicitations , doe ill by teaching , and his actions , not the inward man or the conscience and the soule is the object the magistrate is to work on . for neither under moses more then now , could the sword convert men to the true religion . yet bodily death was to be inflicted on the seducer , then , as now deut. . . and all israell shall hear , and fear , and shall doe no more any such wickednesse as this is among you : and afflictions work the same way now rom. . . for rulers are not a terrour to good works but to the evil , wilt thou then not be afraid of the power ? doe that which is good , and thou shalt have praise of the same . there be five pull-backs that keep men even in heresie and in a false way , as may be collected out of augustines writings from which by the terrour of just lawes , they may be affrighted from seducing of others as . fear of offending men especially those of their own way ; . an hardning custome in a false way . . a wicked sluggishnesse in not searching the truth of god. . the wicked tongues of enemies that shall traduce them , if they leave heresies . . a vaine perswasion that men may be saved in any religion . see augustine epist . . & ad vincent . epist . . epist . . ad bonifacium . contra petilianum . l. . c. . lib. . contra cresconium cap. . contra guidentum . l. . c. . & lib. contra parmen . c. . contra gaudent . l. . c. . de unitate eccles . c. . epist . . and so that which the objector mr. john goodwine long agoe objected is easily answered , that the magistrate cannot in justice punish that which is unavoydable and above the power of free-will to resist , but such are all heresies and errours of the minde . for this might well have been objected against that most just law deut. . why should god command to stone to death a seducer that tempts any of his people to worship false gods , because such a man is sick but of an errour in the minde , he beleeves he does service to his god , whom he beleeves to be the true god , in so doing , and had the heathen and jews under moses more strength of free-will and more grace to resist apostacie , blasphemie , wicked opinions against the true god , then we have now under the gospel . and the lord hath expressely said deut. . . israel shall feare ( bodily death ) and doe such wickednesse no more : now this was not ceremoniall or typicall fear , but meere naturall feare sufficient to retract and withdraw men from externall acts of seducing and blaspheming , which is all that the magistrate can doe . . this is the verie objection of donatists and augustine answers truely . by this answer the magistrate should not punish murtherers and adulterers for they have not grace to resist temptation to murther , certainly the spirit of revenge , and of whoredoms must be as strong above free will as the spirit of errour and lies . achab then sinned not in beleeving the lying prophets who deceived him : and it was not in his power to resist the efficacie of lying inflicted on him for his former sins . and what sinnes the magistrate punisheth he doth punish as the formall minister of god. rom. . and so this is the pelagian , arminian and popish objection against god and free grace , as much as against us . . the wickedest seducer is punished for his externall acts of false teaching and seducing which may , and must be proved by witnesse or confessed by the delinquent , before he can justly punish him , but not for any mind-error which is obvious neither to judge nor witnesse . then the true state of the question is not whether the sword be a means of conversion of men to the true faith , nor . whither heathen by fire and sword are to be compelled to embrace the truth . nor . whither violence without instruction and arguing from light of scriptures , should be used against false teachers , nor whither the magistrate can punish the opinions of the mind , and straine internall liberty . but whither or no ought the godly and christian prince restraine & punish with the sword false teachers , publishers of hereticall and pernicious doctrines , which may be proved by witnesse , and tends to the injuring of the souls of the people of god , in a christian societie , and are dishonourable to god , and contrary to sound doctrine ; and so coerce men for externall misdemeanours flowing from a practicall conscience sinning against the second table , as well as from a speculative conscience ( to borrow these tearmes here ) when they professe and are ready to swear they performe these externalls meerely from and for conscience . for since false teachers and hereticks in regard of the spiritualnesse of their sinne are the worst of evill doers , and such as work abomination in the israel of god , and there is no particular lawes in the new testament for bodily coercing of sorcerers , adulterers , thieves , traitors , false witnesses , who but speak lies against the good name of their neighbour , not against the name of god , nor against sodomites , defilers of their bodies with beasts , perjured persons , covenant breakers , liars &c. what reason in nature can there be to punish the one , and not the other ? for it may with as good colour of reason be said , that all the lawes in the old testament , for drawing of the sword against sodomites , adulterers and such like , were typicall and temporary , and are done away now in christ , for christ will have these converted in as spirituall a way by the onely power of the word of god as the other and no where in any expresse law in the new testament doth god command to use the bloody sword against them , more then against blasphemers : and to remove these grosse sins out of christian societies by the sword is no lesse a carnall and a bodily afflictive way of dealing with their consciences , as to deal so with seducers ; and it s enough to that negative argument , that no where it is expressed as a dutie of the magistrate , under the new testament to use the sword against false teachers , nor does our saviour or the apostles rebuke the magistrate for omitting of their dutie in this . yea paul , cor. . , , . when he shewes that some of the corinthians abused their body with mankinde , were theev●s , drunkards , extortioners , he no where saith that it was the magistrates dutie to take away their head for sodomie , which certainly it was , and that by the verie law of nature , but he was gods instrument for their conversion by the power of the word , ver . . and cor. . . as he laboured to convert the galdehians who sometimes worshipped dumb idols , and the ephesians who worshipped the vaine idol diana act. . yea , nor is there any new testament law for taking away the life of a murtherer , for that of our saviours . math. . . all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword : except we say it was so a judiciall law among the jews , as it was a law of nature gen. . before there was a common wealth erected among the jews , cannot be called a new testament law , to peter and john and the disciples who were obliged at that same verie time to keepe the passeover and to be subject to all the jewish laws . chap. v. of fundamentals . a foundation ( saith pareus iren. c. ) is that which is in the lowest place of the building to beare up that which is built upon it , and without which the building cannot stand . that then must be the foundation of faith and salvation which is precisely necessary to be believed by all that are saved alardas valek gives us four fundamentals facienda & vitanda things to be done and eschewed in the decalogue . credenda , to be believed in the creed . . roganda , to be sought from god in prayer . ●surpanda things to be practised , as the sacraments . how the repenting thiese knew all these , i see not , yet a taste of some of them ye may see and with the infused life of god he was ready to believe and doe the rest . for the first he knew robberie and violence to be damned in the decalogue ▪ we are justly here , and repented . . for the second , he believed in christ as a king , the son of god and a saviour . christ was accused that he called himself the sonne of god and a king , when the man saith of christ this man hath done nothing amisse : he believes him to be the sonne of god , and the saviour who had the keyes of paradice at his girdle . . he prayes to him . lord remember me when thou comes to thy kingdome . . for externall worship or sacraments , it is like he knew little : yet he confessed christ a king when his disciples denyed him and fled , and the world persecuted him . cycillus hyerosolymitian reduceth them to two ; the knowledge of points of faith . . the doing of good works . had he added according to the new covenant it were good . calvin saith epist . i refuse not the augustine confession . cui pridem volens & libens subscripsi . sicut eam author interpretatus est . yet in the . article thereof the substantiall bodie and blood of christ is said to be really present under the spece of bread and wine . ambrose in cap. . lu. negat christum , qui non omnia qua sunt christi confitetur . it is onely thus farre true the that hath sufficient meanes of believing what the word saith may confesse all truths of christ and doth not denie christ , but as some doe not all the good they may , yet have a saving disposition to it , though either they through infirmities leave it undone , or through want of oportunitie , yet believing are saved : so these that want means of knowing and confessing all truths yet have the habit of faith to believe them , though they never actually confesse them , doe not deny christ . though irenem l. . c. . tertullian de virginibus velandis augusti . to . . de tempore sar . . and russi●●● in the exposition of the creed say that which is called the apostles creed , came from the apostles : yet there is no sufficient ground for us to believe the authentick authoritie of it . conrad , worships while he was yet ▪ sound ▪ de pausis just it & necessariis deserendi papatus . par . . dis . . the . saith of these points that are contained in the apostles creed : some things are simply necessarie for salvation , without which faith and repentance cannot be . some not so necessarie , yet profitable and of themselves saving . . other things by consequence and by accident are necessarie , not of themselves and separate from the fundamentals , the church of rome erres in the fundamentals , in the doctrine of our saviour and his offices , in the doctrine of merit , humane satisfactions , indulgences , the scriptures , the church . in the . they erre about baptisme , the lords supper , confirmation , unction , pennance , though of themselves they happily deprive not of life eternall , yet because the subject about which the matter is versed is most necessary , they are pernicious errors . these of the third sort touching creation , providence , mortification , though of themselves they might be called errours , simple ignorance , yet for the dangerous consequences , they are pernicious heresies . mr. john durie in his theological consultation maketh three sort of necessary points . . these , without the knowledge of which christ cannot be known in the covenant of grace , nor by faith retained , which are comprehended in the paction of the covenant . . saving points which secretly lurk in these necessirie points , yet by just and evident consequence may be deduced there from , though they be not in the expresse words of the covenant . . some things that are profitable , the expresse knowledge whereof conduceth to the fuller knowledge and faith of these things necessarie , yet are not such , but christ may be believed by simple soules and rested on for salvation , without such a precise forme of speaking . augusti . de trinit . l. . c. . it is one thing to know what we are to believe , another thing how , or with what certaintie we are to believe . nazianz. orat. . de theol. perinde ea qua ex scripturis colliguntur , atqui ea qua scribuntur . what is in scripture by consequence is scripture : the ignorance of the resurrection , which was in scripture to the sadduces by consequence onely was an ignorance of the scripture 〈◊〉 . . , , . and a soul condemning errour . it is a question , yea no question , to die denying the resurrection is to die without saith , happily to die ignorant of it , having never heard the gospel is not so high a sinne , but who can say such can be saved ? august . serm . . de verbis apost . si negent equalem , negant filium , si negant filium , negant christum , si negant christum , negant in carne venisse . origen l. . de peccat . c. . all christians faith stands in these two , that the first adam destroyed us , the second saves us : errours about justifying saith , and errours touching historicall faith are farre different . the foundation is christ and none but he . . the gold builded on the foundation is the doctrine of christ , and a created thing , yet simply necessary to be believed . . the hay and stubble that is builded on it must be vanities and fooleries believed , yet of themselves such as extinguish not saving faith and love , no more then sins of infirmitie are inconsistent with saving faith , then both the mans hay and stubble and his sins of infirmitie against the second table may be burnt and the man saved : but it follows not the church and magistrate should therefore not punish or censure the builders of hay and stubble upon the foundation , but should tollerate them , for a godly man , as david and peter may fall in adulterie , in treacherous murther and denyall of christ , yet it follows not that the magistrate should tollerate and not punish murther and adulterie in a christian societie , and that paul should not sharply rebuke , and if need be , farther proceed to the censure of the church : if peter either deny his lord , though out of infirmitie and fear , or if he judaize and looke awry to the gospel . chap. vi. errours in non-fundamentals obstinately holden are punishable . yee must beare one anothers infirmities , and restore these that fall with the spirit of meeknesse . gal. . . and yet not tollerate their errours , and forbear to admonish and also sha●ply rebuke them and if need be , the church and magistrate may proceed to further censures , to excommunication and the use of the sword , for justice is not contrary to meeknesse , nor one fruit of the spirit contrarie to another . he 〈◊〉 spareth the rod hateth the childe : yet should not a father be cruell to his childe , nor is his correcting contrarie to fatherly compassion , but not correcting is crueltie to and hatred of the childe : and the like we are to think of the punishments and censures of the nurse father of the church , and of the church . there be some things of doubtfull disputations that the weak in knowledge cannot conceive , and yet are to be instructed in meeknesse and received as brethren . rom. . . . but if these same weak , after sufficient instruction , when the ceremonies of moses law became deadly and unlawfull ( as they were then indifferent ) would needs be circumcised , abstain from meats , and keep the whole ceremoniall law , whatever should be said on the contrarie , and would compell others to be circumcised and pervert the souls of many even after the date of the indifferencie of these things is expired paul then is so farre from giving place for an hour or betraying christian libertie gal. . or from bearing with them that he withstandeth them to their faces , and wisheth that such as trouble others so were cut off and might bear their judgement . gal. . . . which clearly holdeth forth , what ever the meaning of these words be , that paul though these that would teach others they must be circumcised , were worthy to bear their judgement and to be punished for so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth . and it shall be a work of difficultie to prove that to be circumcised was necessary to salvation , and these that so taught act. . and gal. chap. . did teach an errour of it self fundamentall and that subverted the faith : who ever then would be circumcised fell from christ gal. . as paul saith , but that was by consequence , sure it was not an errour , in terminis fundamentall , as this , christ is not the saviour of mankinde , onely it was an errour that by consequence subverted the foundation , and was a falling from christ by consequence , and a comming again under the debt of the whole law , and of salvation by the law , which was ever impossible , and to say it was necessary to salvation , necessitate medij , so as all the galathians who received christ and the gospel and would have plucked out their eyes for paul , who died ignorant of this point ( who ever will now be circumcised is fallen from christ ) were eternally damned , and dyed out of christ is a groundlesse saying : there was a glorious church in galatia before paul wrote that epistle to them , for he wrote it upon occasion of their being seduced , who were made believe the necessitie of circumcision , and it is clear paul would not have written that of circumcision , if that errour had not been sowen among them by false teachers , if therefore such as were made beleive that had not beene bewitched to believe the necessitie of ceremonies for justification , they being in christ , should have been saved by faith , though this controversie in terminis had never come to their ears : whither are believers justified by faith onely , or must they also be circumcised and keep the law ? that they may be justified and saved . and sure many are now in our dayes ( which is more ) glorified , who never knew , but onely virtually , and implicitely , that to be circumcised , or to keep jewish dayes is not necessary to justified persons , yea sure many in britaine are saved who never knew this fundamentall truth . . act. . it is cleare that some taught the brethren , except ye be circumcised after the manner of moses , ye cannot be saved : the contrary truth is no expresse fundamentall truth , because a fundamentall truth expressely necessary is so necessary ( necessitate medij ) as without the knowledge thereof we cannot be saved . now these teachers knew that the apostles and elders and saints at at jerusalem were not circumcised so , and they knew believing gentiles were not circumcised at all , and yet they knew the apostles were not damned , they knew all children dying before the eight day were not damned , they must then hold that circumcision was onely necessary to salvation , by way of precept : and the brethren that believed and so if they had dyed in that state had undeniably been saved , were ignorant of this ; and v. . there was much disputing among believers yea among the apostles who were not ignorant of fundamentals : and undoubtedly had saving faith long before , math. . . . till james fully determined the question from the word of god. v. , , , . then it is most clear that these that erre in other points that are not fundamentals in which all christians agree may be perverters of souls and so deserve to be rebuked by the church and punished . . this opinion of so 〈◊〉 ring all , save such as erre in fundamentals , though they 〈◊〉 non fundamentals is grounded upon this , that the scripture is evidently plain and clear in fundamentals , but in other points 〈◊〉 non-fundamentals , the scripture is dark , and in regard of the darknesse and naturall ignorance of our minde which is in●●cible almost , we must forbear one another and give and take elbow-roome and latitude of indulgence , because the magistrate and church are not infallible , but both godly and learned may be on each side , so that there should be no peace nor union of hearts in christian societies , but all churches or earth must disband and be dissolved , if each should punish and censure one another for holding contrary tenets . but . mr. john goodwine who contendeth for a catholicke tolleration of all , of any religion whatsoever , whither they erre in fundamentals or non-fundamentals , and his words because nnanswerable to me against this distinction i set down i desire it be taken ( saith he ) to serious consideration , 〈◊〉 , or how farre , it is meet to punish or censure poor miserable men , for not holding or not asserting the truth of these things , which they cannot come without much labour and contention of minde , yea not without some good degree of some reason and understanding too , to judge so much as probable , nor at all to come to believe or know them certainly , but onely by an immediate and supernaturall work of the spirit of god● are 〈◊〉 to be punished , because god hath not imparted to them his spirit of grace and supernaturall illumination ? this learned and sharp witted divine ( as any i see of that way ) confirms me much that tolleration in non-fundamentals and non-tolleration in errours fundamentall , is a distinction cannot subsist , in the way that libertines in england now goe : for to know or believe supernaturall non-fundamentals as the histories of the miracles of christ the prophets and apostles requires a work of the spirit of grace and supernaturall illumination , is to know or believe fundamentalls ; why then should men be punished for holding errours in the one and not in the other ? and the conscience cannot be compelled in the one more then in the other : but with favour i desire an answer to these quaeries . quaere . . whether men deserve to be pitied and spoken of compassionately , as poore miser 〈…〉 which they 〈…〉 work of the spirit of grace , and supernaturall 〈…〉 the false prophet , deut . and elima● the perverter of the gospel deserves to be pi●ied ? query . hence whether the sinfull blindnesse of our in 〈◊〉 that makes us , because poor and miserable , 〈…〉 must not black the spotlesse justice of our lord , who yet punisheth originall mind-blindnesse in thousands of the sons of adam ? query . whether this hinteth not at 〈…〉 power of believing , and doing what we can , otherwise god cannot deny further grace , or punish that naturall impotency of not knowing or not believing ? quer. . whether the same query may not be retorted upon the justice of gods law , deut. . 〈…〉 , thus whether is it mee● that the just god should command a poo●● miserable seducing jew , who saith , let us go and worship strange gods , since this miserable impostor ▪ being a son of sin and wrath by nature , cannot come without much labour and contention of mind , yea nor without some good degree of reason to judge so much as it is probable , nor at all to believe or know certainly , that 〈◊〉 no● the true god , but the god of the jews , onely ; excluding on the world from saving means of salvation , is the onely true god , onely to be served and worshipped , but onely by an immediate and supernaturall work of the spirit of god ? are men either jews under the law , or gen●●les under the gospel , to be punished and stoned to death , because god hath not ●●parted to them his spirit of grace , and supernaturall 〈◊〉 ? quer. . is it meet to punish david ( suppose he were no king ) for adultery and treacherous murther , since without a worke of the spirit of grace , who only effectually 〈…〉 being led into temptation , he cannot eschew the 〈◊〉 into adultery and murther ? are men-adulterer● and men murtherers to be punished , because god hath not imparted ●●to them his spirit of grace , by whose actuall assistance only they can decline adultery and marther● quer. . whether did even 〈…〉 teach that the magistrate should punish with the sword poor miserable men , because they canot believe 〈◊〉 of faith by the supernaturall illumination of the spirit ? whether is 〈◊〉 the question perverted when a query is made , whether the magistrate is to punish poor men for not understanding , not 〈◊〉 not judging , not believing supernaturall truths ? we say the magistrate or his sword hath nothing to do with the elect and internal acts of the minde , of understanding , knowing , judging or believing , but onely with the externall acts of speaking , teaching , 〈◊〉 ●ishing dangerous and pernitious doctrines to the 〈◊〉 and destraction of the soules of others ? quer. . whether the magistrate does therefore force the conscience of a false teacher , because he cannot , he dare not keep up doctrines pornicious to the souls of others , but publish them , because his erroneous and evill conscience judgeth them to be saving and necessary truths , when the magistrate punisheth him , more then he forceth the conscience of a murtherer whom he punisheth , though this murtherer judged in his conscience that the man be killed did him so crying and oppressive an injury as in the court of god , deserved bodily death ; or when this man murthered his son in a sacrifice to god out of meer conscience ? quer. . whether or no this divine , who will have 〈◊〉 to be punished for erring in fundamentalls , because they believe them not , doth not say , none that teacheth there is ●● god , that jesus christ is a grand impostor , and faller 〈◊〉 the truth , and saith satha● is the only god of this world , and 〈◊〉 to be served , ought to be so much as rebuked , for without the immediate and supernaturall worke of the spirit of god , they cannot know or believe these truthe ; and are men to be rebuked and preached against , because , god hath not imparted to them his spirit of grace ? whether doth not this arguing evict all the ministery , rebukes , and exhortation , and morall extirpating of heresies by the power of the word ? quer. . whether this be not the old argument of 〈◊〉 who argued from liberty of free-will to conclude liberty of conscience ? and said forcing of free-will , if the magistrate hinder men to be a willing people to christ , is an injury done to conscience and to free-will , and to god the creat●● , of the soule ? and the same might be objected against the decree of 〈…〉 quer. . whether on 〈◊〉 are men punished , because god 〈◊〉 not bestow the spirit of grace 〈◊〉 them , by which they would flye all evill-doing , when they are punished for evill-doing . quer. . whereas this distinct argument presupposeth that the magistrate should tolerate errors in fundamentalls , and in non-fundamentalls , because of the difficulty of knowing of fundamentalls , must it not follow that men are far rather to be tolerated , 〈◊〉 ●●re in fundamentalls , 〈◊〉 such as erre in non-fundamentalls , and so the more blasphemous that seducing teachers be , as if they deny there is a god , and that nature , and chante rules all , and that christ was an imposter , the gospel a fable , the scripture a meer 〈◊〉 , the more they are to be pitied , and 〈◊〉 measure of indulgence and toleration is due to them then to such ●● are godly and erre but in lesser points , that are more easily 〈…〉 concerning usury , accidentall killing of our neighbour , or the meaning of some places of scripture , or erre in matters touching church-government or the like ? quer. . since also 〈◊〉 lay for a ground , that the magistrate is not infallible in judging of matters of religion , especially that are supernaturall , such as the mysteries of the gospell , the incarnation , sufferings and death of christ , his satisfaction for sinners , &c. and christians are not infallible in either reaching these to others , or in believing them , for their faith and practise , and therefore the magistrate ought to tolerate all these ; how then can this divine talke of a certainty of knowing and teaching , and holding of divine truthe●● for by 〈◊〉 principle of toleration , that no man hath infallibility in matters of religion , since the prophets and apostles fell asleepe , there can be no certainty of faith either in ruler or people , but all our faith in fundamentalls or non-fundamentalls , must be fallible , dubious , conjectu●●● and for such as yeeld a toleration in non-fundamentalls , but deny it in fundamentals : . they must quit all arguments used by libertin●● for toleration , from the nature of conscience , that it can not be constrained . . that they 〈◊〉 bee a willing people that follow christ . . that 〈◊〉 lord of the conscience onely . . that co●pulsion 〈◊〉 hypocrites . . that to know , maintaine , a●d 〈◊〉 truths of the gospel , is not in our power , as to kill or 〈◊〉 to kill , because acts of the understanding fall not 〈◊〉 dominion of free-will . . that the preaching of the 〈◊〉 and perswading by scripture and reason , not the sword and strong hand , is the way to propagate truth , and 〈◊〉 pate heresies . . that the laws of moses against false 〈◊〉 , were onely typicall , and perished with other 〈◊〉 , and therefore there is no warrant under the n●● testament for punishing hereticks ; all these and the like 〈◊〉 with equall strength conclude against toleration of such 〈◊〉 erre in non-fundamentalls , as well as in fundamentall 〈◊〉 in neither the one not the other , is the conscience to ●●●strained ; nor can magistrates be lords of the 〈◊〉 fundamentalls , more then in non-fundamentalls , and 〈◊〉 must be a willing people in fundamentalls , as in non-fundamentalls ; nor can the sword , but preaching of the word onely , be a means of propagating of non-fundamentalls more then of fundamentalls , when then libertines 〈◊〉 lost all these arguments , by reason of this 〈◊〉 which here hath no place , their cause must bee weake and leane . to determine what is fundamentall , what not , and the number of fundamentall points , and the least measure of knowledge of fundamentals , in which the essence of saving faith may consist , or the simple want of the knowledge of which fundamentalls , is inconsistent 〈◊〉 saving faith in minimo quod non , is more then magistrat● or church can well know . sure it borders with one of gods secrets , touching the finall state of salvation , or damnation of particular men . and it is as sure , this is a fundamentall , to belie●● that god is , that hee is a rewarder of those that seeke hi● , that there is not a name under heaven by which men may 〈◊〉 saved , but by the name of jesus that no man 〈◊〉 come to the father , but by christ , that hee that 〈◊〉 not , the wrath of god abideth on him , and he is condemned 〈◊〉 , then he was condemned and under wrath before , even from the wombe . nor is this a good argument of bellius , where christ is , what he doth , how he sits at the right hand of god , how he is one with the father , many things of the trinity , of god , predestination , angels , the state of men after this life , are points not so necessary to be known , for publicans and harlots who enter into heaven , may be ignorant of them , and though they were knowne , they make not a man better , according to that , if i had all knowledge , if i have not love , it is nothing . for . the exact knowledge of these are not so necessary , and that is all that this argument can conclude : — but the scripture saith no more , that publicans and harlots , remaining publicans and harlots , enter into the kingdome of heaven , in sensu composito , nor when it saith , the blinde see , the deafe heare , the dead are raised , the meaning should be , blinde , and deafe , remaining blinde , and deafe , doe see and heare : or the dead remaining dead in their graves , and void of life , doe live and have life ; but these that were blinde now see , when blindnesse is removed , otherwise some may take harlotry into heaven with them : and because the word of god is a seed , when this is in the heart of a dying harlot , christ came to save sinners , and to save me : how , or what way the spirit sits upon this egge and warmes it , and what births of saving truths , the spirit joyned with the spirit of a dying man , brings forth , who knowes ? the repenting thiefe knew christ to be the saviour of men , and a king , who could dispose of heaven , but what deductions the spirit made with in , who knows ? nor is it a truth that the knowledge of any revealed truths of god makes no man the better ; for it leanes on this ground , that , . the spirituall law of god commands not a conformity between the understanding power of the soule and the law , to require that the minde conceive , apprehend , and know god , and his will , as he reveales himselfe to us , which yet is included in the command of loving of god with all the heart , with all the soule , with all the strength , and so with all the minde , though that knowledge be directed to no other practice , but beliefe . . it leanes upon another false ground , that to believe ( i speake of an intellectuall assenting to divine truth● ) it being an act of the understanding , and a necessary result of knowledge doth not make a man better , which yet is most false , for beside that it is commanded , not to believe a re●●aled truth , is a sin , and renders men morally ill , and wor●● now that text that saith , cor. . though i had all knowledge , saith also , though i had all faith , yea though i gave my goods in the poore , and my body to be burnt , i am nothing ; that is , i cannot bee saved , or any other then a damned hypocrite that tinkles like gold , and is but brasse : now by this reason , to give to the poore , to believe omnipotency in miracles , should not be commanded of god. davenentius thinkes a generall confession of the catholicke church sufficient , and that betweene us and lutherans there is not required a confession in particulars controverted . but it is true lutherans and we agree in most fundamentalls , but a confession in generall fundamentals when expounded and believed practically by each side ( as it must be ) must have contrary senses to each side ; now this way the jewes and samaritans both agreed , there was one god , and that the messiah should come , and that he should tell them all things , yet one confession common to both , that each might believe and be saved was not possible , for christ saith , joh●● . the samaritans worshipped they knew not what , but salvation is of the jewes : and should christians and jewes agree in one generall confession drawne out of the old testament , that there is one god , that the messiah is , he that dyes for the sinnes of his people , that the decalogue it a perfect rule , 〈◊〉 we could not sweare and subscribe that confession , for 〈◊〉 expounded by the jewes , it could not be the doctrine of the old testament , nor any part of the word of god , but 〈◊〉 contradictory thereunto as any point of heathen divinity , for fundamentalls to some may be , and are untruths to others , even this , that the messiah christ is the saviour of the world , both iewes , and we say , but they meane one thing by messiah , we another ; so we cannot have one faith , nor one confession . i deny not , but these were pious conferences , that at lipse an . . in which there were on the one side , matthias hocus , polycarpus leiserus , henricus haffuerus ; on the other side , joan. bergius , joan. crotius , theophilus nenbergius , who went through the augustine confession and agreed in the truth , almost in all . at the agreement or concord of marpurge , an . . were luther , melanthon , osiander , brentius , stephanus agricola , who brake not the bond of peace with zwinglius , bucer , hedion , there present . at the conference of wittingberge , an . . where were present capito , bucerus , musculus , and other grave divines of higher germany ; on the other side , luther , melanthon , pomeranus , cruciger , in which luther said , brethren , if ye teach and believe that the true body and true blood of the lord is exhibited in the supper , & quod hee percept●o vere fiat , and that truely or really there is a receiving thereof , we agree as brethren ; but the truth is , there were contrary faiths touching the presence of christs body and blood in the sacrament ; and therefore i humbly conceive all such generall confessions as must be a coat to cover two contrary faiths , is but a daubing of the matter with untempered mortar ; much dealing like this was in the councell of trent , in which neither papist nor protestant was condemned , and yet the truth suffered ; i speake not this as if each side could exactly know every lith and veine of the controversie , for we prophesie but in part , but to shew i cannot but abominate truth and falsehood , patched up in one confession of faith ; for if two men should agree in such a bargaine , a covenants with b to give him a ship full of spices ; b promises to give an hundreth thousand pounds for these spices , a believes they are metaphoricall spices he gives , b believes they are the most reall and excellent spices of aegypt ; b promises a hundreth thousand pounds of field stones , a expects good , reall , and true money ; this were but mutuall jugling of one with another . it were another consideration , if both sides agreeing in this generall confession were ignorant , and did neither know nor believe any sense that were destructive to the true and sound sense of the confession , for then they might be saved by , or in one and the same faith of this general confession , whereas now the contrary senses of this confession make them now not one generall , but two particular 〈◊〉 , and contradictory faiths ; for the question is , whether the side believing the generall confession with a sense in the consequence , that destroyes the text , have any faith at all of this generall confession . for it is a question to me whether a turke hath the faith of this point , that there is a god , since he believes positively so many blasphemous fooleries of this god , as the alcharon suggesteth , and whether a papist as a papist , believes christ to be the onely one saviour of sinners , since withall he believes so many thousand gods and true christs to be at once in sundry places , and so many blasphemies against the nature , offices , and essentiall properties of christ , as the romish faith teacheth . but ye will say , it is not charity to say that papists have not the faith of the one onely saviour , seeing he would dye for that point , and for the consequences that there bee many saviours , if the monster of tran-substantiation stand , yet he neither knows nor believes the logicall consequence , nor the consequent , but hates both , to wit , if the bread bee truely and really the saviour that dyed on the crosse , ergo , how many hoasts and consecrated breads there bee , there must be as many a thousand , ten thousand christs and gods , yea he would be burnt quick before be deny this truth , there is but one onely saviour the son of mary ; then if yee hang him or 〈◊〉 him for believing transubstantiation , since he is otherwise a 〈◊〉 , pious and just man , ye hang him for the meere ignorance of a poore logicall consequence , and for no blasphemy : and the like may be said of familists , antinomians , and others , who ( as they say ) are godly men , and cannot see the logicall consequences , and absurd blasphemies that you with your wit , deduce from their doctrine , for their sou●e hates these blasphemies as much as you . ans . i say not for believing tran-substantiation only , men are to be hanged ; the question now is of bodily punishing , hanging and burning quick , are particular kinds of punishing , in which i should be as sparing as another man , but the question may draw to this , whether the laws of england & scotland be bloody and unjust , that ordains seminary priests and jesuits , whose trade it is to seduce souls to the whole body of popery , to bee hanged . i conceive they are most just lawes , and warranted by deut. . and many other scriptures , and that the king and parliaments of either kingdomes serve christ , and kisse the son in making and executing these laws . . i see nothing said against bodily punishing of such as teach transubstantiation to others : for the idolaters and seducers in the old testament believed the same way , there is one true god jehovah that brought them out of aegypt , exod. . , . jeroboam who made two gods , and jehu who was zealous for jehovah , king. . . c. . , , . king. . . , . c. . . , . and joram , king. . . acknowledged god could kill and make alive , and was just in his promises and threatnings , yet worshipped the golden calves , those who cryed the temple of the lord , must acknowledge there was but one true god , yet they burnt incense to baal , and killed their children to molech , jer. . , . , . they that asked of jehovah the ordinances of their god , and fasted to jehovah , esa . . , , , . yet inflamed themselves under every green tree , esa . . . and slew their children under the clifts of the rocks : the heathen knew god , and one god , who made the heaven and the earth , and worshipped him , though ignorantly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rom. . , . act. . . yet denyed and hated this logicall consequence that they had forsaken the lord , jer. . , . or deut. . . forgotten the rocke that begat them , ps . . . . ps . . , . that they forsooke him dayes without number ; yea they did more then god required , to keep god in their minde , and not forget him as they said , they changed him into the forme of corruptible things to be memorialls of god to them ; and the lord said , for all this , they r●fuse to know me ; they have said , it is not the lord , yea they would have dyed for it , rather then have said , there is no god that made heaven and earth . and they did erre indeed , in a consequence , against the light of nature , yet the irreligious and wicked stopping of eyes and eares at naturall consequences in matters of religion is no innocent 〈◊〉 as is cleare , esa . . . they have not knowne , nor understood ▪ for he hath shut their eyes that they cannot see , and their hearts , that they cannot understand , . and none considers in his heart , neither is there knowledge , nor understanding to say , i have but in part of it in the fire , yea also i have baked bread upon the coales thereof , i have roasted flesh and eaten it , and shall i make the residue thereof a● abomination , shall i fall downe to the flocke of a tree , . he seedeth on ashes , &c. now as israel said ever , the creator of the ends of the earth is our god , the tree is but a likenesse and resemblance of god , esa . . . esa . . , , . so they denyed this consequence , ergo , a part of your god is burnt in the fire , and with the coals of your burnt god , you bake bread , roast flesh , and warme your bodies when you are cold , and worship a lye , and an abomination , as the papists say , we adore very christ in , and under the accidents of the bread , even the same god-man , maries son , who dyed on the crosse ; yet they deny this consequence , ergo , a part of your god and saviour is baken in the oven , eaten , and cast out with the draught , and a part thereof , even of the same floore and dough is made a god by the priest , and ye say , i will b●● downe and worship the residue of that which the baker did bake , and roast , in the oven . and so yee worship a lye , and an abomination , as the old idolaters did , esa . . yet the papist will deny this consequence , that he multiplyes gods as loaves are multiplyed in an oven ; because as esaiah saith , he knoweth not , he understandeth not , god hath shut his eyes ; certainly that knowledge he denyes to the idolator , is the naturall knowledge of a naturall consequence . if ye worship a bit of an ash-tree , or a bit of bread , ergo , the halfe of your god , or the quarter thereof , is baken in an oven , ergo , there is a lye , and an abomination in your right hand ; then the deniall of logicall consequences in religion , and the teaching thereof to others , may be , and is an heresie , and punishable by the magistrate , as deut. . and exod. . so christ rebukes matth. . saduces as ignorant of the scripture , when they denyed but the consequence or a logicall connexion , as god is not the god of the dead but of the living , ergo , the dead must rise againe , and abraham must live , and his body be raised from the dead . and . the idolaters who were to dye by the law of god , exod. . deut. . denyed not the true god more then our false teachers doe now . we see no reason why none should be false teachers , but such onely as deny fundamentals , and that pertinaciously , though these by divines be called heretickes . . rom. . . paul saith , now i beseech you , brethren , marke them that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them , then as we are not to distinguish where the law and the word of god does not distinguish , so we are to count them false teachers , who lead in a faction in the church , contrary to any doctrine of truth , whether fundamentall or not fundamentall , and to avoid them as seducers . . peters errour , since he beleeved christ was come , matth. . . was not fundamentall , but consistent with faith , yet paul withstood him to the face , because he was to be blamed , and if he had pertinaciously gone on to walke not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel , since paul would not have given place by subjection to such , no not for an houre , gal. . , , , , . he should have been worthy of more then rebuke , yea of higher censure , the like we must say of barnabas and other jewes , who all sinned though in a farre inferiour degree with these , who came in privily to spye out the christian liberty of the gentiles to bring them into bondage , under the ceremoniall law . . gal. . . paul saith , if we or an angel from heaven should preach ( any other gospel ) then that which we have preached , let him be accursed ; which place , with good warrant , our divines bring against the unwritten traditions of papists , of what kinde soever they be , fundamentalls or non-fundamentalls , whether they be obtruded as necessary points of salvation or not necessary , but accidentalls , or arbitrary points , yet conducing for the better observing of necessary points , for i have proved else-where , that papists esteem their unwritten traditions , not necessary points of faith , yea many of them to be accidentals , serving onely ad mellus esse , for order and decency , yea and great doctors of them say , neither the pope nor the church can devile novum dogma fidei , a new article of faith , or a new sacrament : nor can we say that the adding of romish ceremonialls , such as consecrating of churches , baptising of bells , signe of the crosse , are fundamentall errours , and inconsistent with saving faith ; the text gal. . , . evinceth that they or some other gospel or doctrine , beside that the galathians had learned ( for paul taught the galathians many points besides fundamentall onely ) and so that the teachers of them were accursed , and so to be separated from , rebuked , withstood , censured , yea cut off as troublers of the church , gal. . . these to whom the spirit of god giveth the title due to false teachers are punishable as false teachers and heretickes , though in a lesse degree . but the holy ghost giveth the title due to false teachers to such as erre not in fundamentalls , ergo , the assumption is made good by tit. . , . the apostle willeth them to be rebuked as not sound in the faith , as those that turne others from the truth in giving 〈◊〉 to jewish fables and commandements of men , to fables and needlesse genealogies , and vaine janglings , and strivings about the law that were unprofitable and vaine : now these questions about genealogies and the law , opinions on either sides being vaine and unprofitable , and not edifying in the faith could not be fundamentall errours of themselves , and inconsistent with saving grace and salvation , but hay and stubble builded upon the foundation : yet consider what the holy ghost saith of them , tit. . . for there are many unruly and vaine talkers , and deceivers , especially they of the circumcision , . whose mouth must be stopped , who subvert whole houses , teaching things they ought not , . rebuke them sharpely that they may be sound in the faith , and to soundnesse in the faith he opposeth , v. . giving heed unto jewish fables and commandements of men that turne from the truth , tim. . . if any man teach otherwise ( then i have taught ; now pauls doctrine of widows , of elders , and not sudden accusing them , his charge to timothy not to drinke water , but a little wine , were not fundamentalls , the ignorance whereof excludeth men from salvation , ) if any man consent not to the wholesome words , even the words of the lord jesus christ , and to the doctrine which is according to godlinesse , . he is proud knowing nothing as be ought , doting about questions and strife of words , whereof commeth envy , strife , railing , evill surmisings , . perverse disputing of men of corrupt mindes , and destitute of the truth , supposing that gaine is godlinesse , from such turne away ; then doting about questions , strife of words , besides , not consenting to the words of christ and doctrine of godlines , is disputing of men of corrupt minds , from which we are to turn away . as i besought thee to abide still at ephesus , when i went into m●cedonia , that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrin . . neither give heed to fables and endlesse genealogies , which minister questions , rather then edifying , which is in faith , then to preach fables and endlesse genealogies which are not fundamentall errors , are yet another doctrine then the apostles taught , and those that so teach are to be charged to teach no such thing , and so under two or three witnesses ▪ if they wilfully continue therein ; to be accused and censured , yea and we are to avoid them , and not to receive them in our houses , nor bid them god speed , and so non-fundamentalls as questions of genealogies come in under the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of teaching 〈◊〉 doctrine . now sure questio●s of genealogies are but the hay & stubble that are builded on the foundation , which shal suffer burning , when the teacher holding the foundation christ shal be saved , yea such as teach circumcision , though with chri●t , then must teach another gospel , though not as necessary to justification , as peter and barnabas , compelled the gentiles to be circumcised ▪ though they believed that circumcision was not necessary to salvation . and it should be hard to assert the believing of the day of christ to be at hand , since the believing of it was an article of faith , the time when , or how soon , in the believing thessalonians , though they were mis-led by some false teachers , is nothing so fundamentall as that an errour touching that time must be inconsistent with saving faith , for the apostles said , these were the last dayes , and christ had told , the day and hour was known to no man , no not to the angels , yet paul insinuates as much , as they did , shake the faith of the thessal●nians , who made them believe , it was at hand . . thess . . . wee beseech you brethren by the comming of the lord jesus — that ye be not soon shaken in mind , or be troubled , neither by spirit , nor by word , nor by letter , as from us , as that the day of christ is at hand . yea , . we beleeve with certainty of faith , many things which are not fundamentals , as pet. . . but ( beloved ) be not ignorant of this one thing , that one day is with the lord as a thousand yeares , and a thousand yeares as one day . how many ( suppose we ) are in glory that dyed ignorant of this , and had not faith , or any certainty of faith of this point , that time 〈◊〉 with god no coexistence of a duration long and 〈◊〉 yet peter proposeth it to bee beleeved with certain●y of faith , and how many poynts of sacred history doth the 〈◊〉 ghost tell us heb. . of caine and abels sacrificing , 〈◊〉 abraham sojourning in a strange country , of sarabs 〈◊〉 a child in her old age , of isaacks blessing of jacob , and josephs worshipping leaning on the end of a staffe , moses being hid three months , the falling of the wals of jerich● , which we beleeve by certainty of divine faith , that are not fundamentals ? yea , and if we beleeve not whatever paul and the rest of the apostles have written , and what moses and the prophets , have said , we must take them to be false witnesses in saying , preaching , & writing what is not true , as paul 〈◊〉 , cor. . . and the apostles sayth , act. . . and we are his 〈◊〉 of these things , and so is also the holy ghost . now 〈◊〉 things referre not onely to christs death and resurrection , but to poynts not fundamentall : as namely who were the instruments of his death , even the high-priest , pharisees and cheife-priests , ver . . whom yee slew and hanged on ● tree , act. . . whom yee crucified , act. . . whom yee have crucified . now the apostles and the holy ghost were witnesses of the truth of both fundamentals and non-fundamentals , of all that jesus began to doe and teach , untill the day 〈◊〉 was taken up to heaven , as is cleare , act. . . ye shall be witnesses unto me both in jerusalem and in judea , and in samaria , and 〈◊〉 the uttermost part of the earth , luke . . ye are my witnesses of these things , that is , ver . . of all things that must be fulfilled with were written in the law of moses , and in the prophets , and in the psalmes concerning me , then the witnessing of the sacrificed , types , and particular ceremonies that shadowed out christ , of his being borne in bethlehem , mic. . of his being crucified between two transgressors , esay . of his riding 〈◊〉 jerusalem on an asse colt . zach. . of his casting out buyers 〈…〉 out of the temple , through his zeale to the house of god , psal . . of the betraying of him by judas , and 〈◊〉 historicall things that are not fundamentals , yet all th●● were a part of the apostles and the holy ghosts testimony , act. . . and to be beleeved with divine certi●ude of 〈◊〉 faith , no lesse then the articles of fundamentalls , that christ was the sonne of man , and died for our sinnes and rose for our righteousnes , except we say that the apostles are false witnesses , and make god a lyar , in saying that judas betrayed him not , and that barrabas a murtherer was not preferred to him , cor . ● . job . . . job . . . for if we give god the lye in non-fundamentals , and turne non-fundamentals into controversies and conjectures , and thinke we must beleeve fundamentals , one or two fixedly and peremptorily , and lead a good life , and so we are saved but not otherwise , but as touching non-fundamentalls , we may beleeve these with a reserve and a demurre , and may beleeve them for a day , or an houre , and deny them to morrow , and again , bee carried about with a new wind of doctrine and beleeve the third day , and deny them the fourth day , beleeve them the fift day , and deny them the sixt day , and so make a whirly-gigge of our faith , and a new faith for a new-moone , or for a halfe , and a quarter moone , as the independents , in their apology makes this a principle of their faith to beleeve these things so , as wee leave roome for a new light to cast a board again at the blowing of the wind of a new phancy ( of which we have seene more in the assembly of divines , these four years , past then we desire to see in any that professe godlinesse ) and as the holland-arminians say ( from whom new lights or old darknesses have their rise ) a faith of a thousand yeares may be the worst of all , which ( say we ) is most false , a false opinion of god , and a thousand yeare old lye , a gray-haird untruth is the worst of conjectures , but faith it neither is , nor can be called . but the late independents , and the new libertines of england do only say such a monthly faith is to be tollerated because of the darkenes of our mind in the matters of god , which yet is faith , not but a conjectural opinion . but they say , by a command of god , we must have no other faith except in some few fundamentals , and no man since adam died ( except the man christ ) ever knew or could determine how few , or how many , so our faith in fundamentals in that , totters , for they say , these precepts and commands of the holy ghost . try the spirits whither they be of god or no. try al things , hold that which is good , & the example of the noble bereans who examined pauls doctrine , by the scriptures , doth lay a divine command in them to beleeve non-fundamentals with a reserve . yea they say with the arminians , &c. that it is against liberty of prophesying , whereas liberty of lying in the name of the lord is of the devil , who hath taken liberty or rather helish licence to lye from the beginning , & they say , it is against our growing in knowl●dge , and the prayers of the saints that god would open their eyes to see the wonders of his law , and lead them into all truth , and against the prophesies that in the last days the earth shal be filled with the knowledg of the lord , the light of the moon shal be as the light of the sun , and the light of the sun , as the light of seven days , and the day star shal arise in the hearts of many , and the spirit shall be powred on all flesh , young and old , maids and children . to all which i say , either the spirit of god moves men to the faith of this ( there is no church visible on earth , but such as is constituted of beleevers , such as those of corinth , and rome , and others were , after they were planted and watered by the apostles ) or no. if no , they have not faith of it , and so it is . . no truth of god to independents , &c. for which they can suffer , but a meer opinion , then they cannot suffer for it in faith , and to beleive any truth of god because the lord so saith , is wrought only by the holy ghost , if it be wrought by the holy ghost , then it is a truth of god , and a divine truth , for the holy ghost moves no man to beleeve a lye , for a truth of god , if it be a divine truth then doth not the holy ghost will you so to beleeve it for a truth , as you must upon a new light beleeve the contrary to morrow . for i renew the argument in its full strength , touching the faith of the contradicent which you beleeved the last day , either the holy ghost must move you to beleeve that contradicent as a truth of god , or no : i● no , it is not divine faith you have of it ; if yea , then the faith of the former was the beleeving of a lye , so that you must make the holy ghost the father of beleeving a lye . . the object of divine faith a lye . this is to teach us to be carried about with every wind of doctrine , whereas faith of fundamentals or non-fundamentals is to beleeve a truth , because so saith the lord , that cannot lye , nor speake untruth , but you will men to beleeve those non-fundamental truths , so as they may bee as well lyes as divine truths . these precepts , try the spirits , try all things , enjoyne an examination of fundamentalls , as well as non-fundamentalls : and what reason have independents to say these precepts hold in non-fundamentalls onely . mr. john goodwin with better ground saith , they hold in all , for must we hold that which is good onely in non-fundamentalls ? and did not the bereans try pauls doctrine by the scripture , in the most and onely necessary fundamentall which paul preached , that jesus christ was the messiah that dyed , rose againe , act. . . and are therefore commended by the holy ghost , v. . ? above those of thessalonica , and must wee beleeve every spirit who preach fundamentall truths , or fundamentall errours , who say christ is not yet come in the flesh , upon trust ? the contrary of which john expresly enjoyneth , joh. . , , : yea we are rather to try fundamentalls , and to walke upon sure and unmoveable principles , since an errour here hazardeth our eternall salvation , and is of as great concernment as our souls are , but errours or mistakes in non-fundamentalls , though they bee sinnes , yet are consistent with saving faith , and the state of salvation . . try all things , try the spirits , must have this sense , beleeve what ever god saith , be it fundamentall or non-fundamentall , not onely after you have searched the scriptures , and sound it agreeable thereunto , as the bereans did , but though you finde it consonant to the writings of the prophets and apostles ; yet because you are not infallible , nor the spirit that leads you therein infallible , beleeve it with a reserve ( say the independents ) and with leaving place to a new light , so as you must believe it to day to be a truth of god , to morrow to be a lye , the third day a truth , the fourth day a lye , and so a circle till your doomsday come , so as you must ever beleeve and learne , never come to a settlement and establishing in the truth ; but dye trying , dye doubting , dye with a trepedation and a reserve , and dye and live a scepticke , like the philosophers that said they knew nothing , and i thinke libertines cannot but be scepticks , and there is more to bee said for the scepticisme of some , then the libertinisme of others . . would these masters argue formally , they must say what ever doctrine , we are to try before we receive it , that we may uncompelledly receive and beleeve it , after tryall that ought to bee tolerated by the magistrate in doctrine and practice , or profession sutable thereunto before men . i would assume , but whether there be a god , and but one god , and all fundamentalls or non-fundamentalls , be divine truths ; yea , and whether fornication be sin , and plurality of wives , and community of goods , and spoyling of wicked men of their wives , and their lands , and possessions , as the israelites spoyled the aegyptians , are such truths that we must try before we receive , beleeve , and accordingly beleeve and practice ; ergo , the magistrate is to tolerate fornication , plurality of wives , spoyling of men of their possessions and goods , and community of goods , but the conclusion is absurd and blasphemous , and against the law of nature ; for if there be no magistracy , nor violence to bee done to ill-doers under the new testament , neither must we defend our owne lives , nor flye , nor resist injuries , but turne up the other cheeke to him that smites the one , and if a man take your cloake , give him your coat also , according to the sense that anabaptists put on the words ; yea and cut off your hands and feet , plucke out your eyes , if they cause you to offend and shed your owne blood , which is the greatest and most unnaturall violence that is . . the sense of this ( try all , and hold that which is good ) must be , try and search the true senses of divine truths , and then having tryed and beleeved , hold the truth , and beleeve it for a day , and yeeld to the light of the just contrary to morrow , and having found a contrary light , try that the third morrow , and yeeld to another new and contrary light the third morrow . now the holy ghost must command doubting by that meanes , and doubting till we lose faith , and finde it againe , and lose it againe in a circle , and if we must try all things , and try all spirits , the bereans must try their owne trying , and their owne doubtings and beleeving , and so into infinite ; and when they finde christ to be in pauls doctrine , and that of moses and the prophets , yet must they try and doubt , and beleeve the doctrine of the prophets and apostles , and of the holy ghost , with the libertines reserve , waiting when the holy ghost shall give himselfe the lye , and say , i moved you to beleeve such a truth , and such an article of faith the last yeare , but now after a more deepe consideration , i move you to beleeve the contrary , yet so as yee leave roome to my new light . . the sense also of these ( lord enlighten mine eyes ) that i may know thee with a suller evidence not of moon-light , but of day-light , or as of seven dayes into one , bee this , lord open my eyes , and increase my knowledge , grant that thy holy spirit may bestow upon my darke soule more scepticall , conjecturall , and fluctuating knowledge to know and beleeve things with a reserve , and with a leaving of roome to beleeve the contrary to morrow of that which i beleeve to day , and the contradicent of that the third day which i shall beleeve to morrow , and so till i dye ; let me , lord , have the grace of a circular faith , running like the wheels of the wind-mill ; for the growing knowledge we seeke of god as in a way of growing ever in this life , till grace be turned into glory , pet. . . if our growth of knowledge stand , as libertines say , in a circular motion from darknesse to light , and backe againe from light to darknesse , like the motion of a beast in a horse-mill , so as i know , and learne and beleeve this topicke truth of faith to day , i unknow , i unlearn and deny it to morrow as an untruth : and againe , i take it up the third day as a truth ; then we seeke in prayer not settled and fixed knowledge , and a well-rooted faith of truths to beleeve them without a reserve , or a demurre , to sen● way the opinion i have of this non-fundamentall or fundamentall truth as a grosse mistake , and to welcome the just contrary opinion as a truth : and againe , to send it away upon a new light , &c. now this is but a mocking of god to pray for his spirit that wee may barter and change opinions with every new moone ; for our prayer for new light , is not that the holy ghost would teach us faith and opinion of truths and falsehoods in a circle ; but that god , . would give the spirit of revelation to see gospel truths with a cleare revelation of faith . . that hee would be pleased to cause that light by which we see the same ancient gospel-truths , shine more fully , with a larger measure of heavenly evidence . . that our light may so grow into the perfect day , that we see new deductions , consequences , and heavenly new fresh conclusions from the former truthe of god. but by scepticall faith , we pray that god would give us a contrary new light , to get a new faith , of truths , formerly beleeved contradicent to the word of god , and to that faith which produced joy , yea joy unspeakable and glorious , pet. . , . and glorying in tribulation , and sweetnesse of peace , rom. . , , . for this , not the light of the moone turned in the light of the sun , or of the sun , as seven dayes in one , but light turned in night darkenesse , the truth in a lye , and the spirit of truth made the father of lyes . the apostles never bid us know any truth of god with a reserve . libertines bi●lus , the apostles , and the holy ghost in them , bids us know assuredly that jesus is christ the lord , they exhort us to bee rooted and established in the faith , col. . to be fully perswaded of all , both fundamentalls , and the historicalls , of the birth , life , miracles , words , facts , death , sufferings , and buriall , resurrection , ascention , &c. of christ , as luke exhorteth theophilus , luke . , , . yea the apostle clearely heb. . exhorteth to the faith of many points concerning christ , beside the first principles of the oracles of god ; that of catecheticke points fit for babes who have not stomachs to beare stronger food , v. . . . because he rebuketh them for being dull of hearing , which is opposite to being teachers of the word of truth to others ; which must insinuate they were to have faith , and not conjecturall and fluctuating opinions of the things they were to teach . . he reproves them for that they had not their senses exercised to discerne good and ill , and that they were unskilfull in the words of righteousnesse . . he exhorteth them , chap. . . to be carried on to perfection , beyond the principles of the doctrine of christ . now to be carried to know all , except some fundamentalls and principles with a reserve and a doubting of the truth , is not to have the senses exercised to discern good and ill , nor to be skilfull in the word of truth , nor to goe on to perfection , but to stand still , as in a horse-mill , and be at the same perfection of knowledge in knowing and beleeving all , even fundamentalls , say some , or all non-fundamentalls , say other libertines , with a reserve , and a resolution to judge them all falsehood and lyes . . it argues the word of god , of obscurity and darknesse , as not being able to instruct us in all truths , and renders it as a nose of wax in all non-fundamentals , histories , narrations , &c. in which notwithstanding the scripture is as evident , plaine , simple , obvious to the lowest capacities in most points , except some few prophesies , as it is in fundamentalls , and layes a blasphemous charge on the holy ghost , as if hee had written the scriptures , upon an intention that we should have no assured and fixed knowledge , no faith but a meere probable opinion , a conjecturall , dubious apprehension of truths , with a reserve to beleeve the contrary , as if the lords purpose had beene that we should all be scepticks , and dye doubting : and how then can god in justice punish any man , for not beleeving and doing the will of our master and lord ? if it bee unpossible even by the light of the spirit to know his will in whole ( as some say ) and in the most part ( as others say ) yea it must not be our sinfull darkenesse in that wee cannot beleeve most of the matters of god , but with a reserve , but it is the will and command of god we doe so : and how shall we know the second faith contradictory to the former to be the minde of god ; and not the first , and the third , and not the second , and the fourth ; and not the third , and so to the end ? since we are to beleeve all the foure with a reserve , and all to our dying day with a reserve for the word is alike dubious now as in pauls dayes : and since the apostles charge us to beleeve and be comforted in beleeving the truths which they beleeved , not as apostles , but as christians , and as fellow-citizens with us , we must say that the apostles also beleeved with a reserve , which is blasphemous . all our practises according to fundamentals or non-fundamentals must bee in faith , that is , with a perswasion that what we doe is according to the revealed will of god , otherwise we sin , rom. . . and are condemned in all we doe . but if this faith with a reserve , be the rule of our practise , we can do nothing in faith , but with a resolve upon doubting : so what you doe , may as possibly be murther , idolatry , stealing , lying , as obedience to god , yea , you must beleeve , that what you do to day is lawfull , but yet so , as to morrowyou must beleeve upon a new light , that it is unlawfull and sin , yea , and this makes the erroneous conscience the rule of your faith , and practise , for if the holy ghost command you to beleeve such points , with the faith of a reserve , he must command you to practise , according to the present faith that he commands you to have of those truths . but the present you have , may be the beleife of a lye and a blasphemous untruth , and so the ten commandements should bee a rule to no man. but his erroneous conscience , if then he beleeve that it is such acceptable worship as god craved of abraham , that you sacrifice your sonne to god , you beleeve it with a reserve , and you are to practise it with a reserve , and oblieged to practice what you are oblieged to beleeve : but you are oblieged to beleeve with a reserve , that it is acceptable service to god to sacrifice your child to him ; for it is a non-fundamentall not clearly determined in the word , as least it is contraverted by many that goe for godly people . now if so , god shall obliege men to sin and not to sin ; to doe his revealed wil , and not to doe his revealed will , in the same commandement , which were blasphemous , now that we are to practise according to our faith of reserve . i prove by the doctrin of libertines , for they teach a man is to suffer death , and any torment , rather then that he say , there bee three persons in one god , and two natures and one person in christ , and that presbyterian government is lawfull , that the christian prince is to punish false teachers if he beleeve in his conscience , though hee is to beleeve with a reserve and doubt somely , that these are truths contrary to the word of god , then is his faith with a reserve , which may be the faith of a lye , his onely oblieging rule of his practise , according to the way of libertines . i confesse hee is rather to suffer death then to professe any doctrine contrary to the dictates even of an erroneous conscience , because he should choose afflictions rather then sin . but when we are commanded faith with a reserve , as they say , we are commanded to beleeve a lye ( which is blasphemous ) and what we are commanded to beleeve by the lord in his word , that must be an oblieging rule to our practice , and so must we be oblieged to sin ; nor can it be said to offer your child to god in a sacrifice , is against the light , and a cleare law of nature , and a fundamentall errour ; for in this dispute libertines arguments are for a toleration of all , whether they erre in fundamentalls or non-fundamentalls , nor can they determine what is of their owne naturall , are controversall and disputable to humane reason , and what not , for we either speake what are de facto actually controverted , in all the christian world , or what be those that in regard of their disproportion to humane reason , of their owne nature , may be controverted . . or we speake of those which are not controversall amongst christians , who acknowledge the old and new testament , to be the word of god , and what are not clearely determined in the word ; and touching the former , there is nothing we know not controverted in the christian world , except that there is a god ; and that is also controverted two wayes : atheists so farre winke , though nature cannot , no not in devills , and godlesse men run it selfe starke blinde , as they deny there is a god , out of malice . . they cavill at all arguments brought to prove that there must bee a god , though they be strong enough for the wit of the devill to answer . now for these that are of their owne nature controversall ( though no truths , especially truths revealed and spoken by the god of truth , are in themselves controversall , or such as can bee opposed ) yet are there two sorts of truths that are in relation to humane reason controvertable . . the principles of nature that god is , that he is infinit , omnipotent , just , mercifull , omniscient , &c. to be loved , served , obeyed , &c. that superiours and parents are to be honoured , our neighbour not to bee hurt , that wee should doe to others as we would they should doe to us , are not of themselves controversall ; but the practicall conclusions drawne from thence are controversall in regard of our darkenesse , as polygamy , community of goods , all these , whether the saints may rob and spoyle wicked men of their possessions , and kill them upon the right , and authority of saintship , are of themselves controversall in relation to our nature who acknowledge scripture to bee the word of god ; but for supernaturall truths that cannot finde lodging in the sphere , or under the shadow of naturall reason , such as the doctrine of one god in three persons of the incarnation of two natures in christ , of the imputed righteousnesse of christ , of salvation by beleeving in a crucified saviour , the resurrection of the dead ; and those that are not knowable but by supernaturall revelation , though they be the fundamentalls of the christian faith , yet are they more controversall of themselves then the most part of non-fundamentalls , as joh. goodwin does rightly observe , for nature hath more shadow of reason to cavill and plead against these , then any other truths ; if then no coercive power ought to be used against such as teach errours contrary to the word of god , and against fundamentalls , because such points are controversall , there is farre more warrant to free those from all coercive power who deny all principles of the christian faith , and turne so from the faith that they deny the word of god , the bookes of the old and new testament , to be any thing but phansied fables , because they teach things most controversall ; and so upon the grounds of libertines , one catholicke toleration is due to all ; and if any shall turn jew or mahometan , or indian or heathenish in his religion , having been a glistering star in the firmament of christianity , & should pervert the right wayes of the lord , with elimas , the magistrate hath nothing to doe to punish him , though he carry navies , and millions of soules to hell , yea , nor is he to be rebuked nor declaimed against as a childe of the devill , and an enemy to all righteousnesse , but with all meeknesse and gentlenesse to be instructed , for rebuking of him thus , is as unjust , since it is not in his power what he thinks or apprehends for truth , or what not , ( say libertines ) as to command the sun to shine at midnight . chap. vii . what opinions 〈…〉 but are there no far off 〈◊〉 at all to be 〈…〉 not learned men give divers and contrary expositions 〈◊〉 one and the same text of scripture and hath not the church suffered errours and erronious 〈◊〉 in godly 〈◊〉 men in all ages even in 〈◊〉 , 〈…〉 have not implored the sword of the 〈…〉 them , though all errours printed and preached hurt the soules of others more or lesse . answ . some errors are about things that god 〈◊〉 indifferent , for the time , 〈◊〉 opinion and 〈…〉 meate● and dayes , rom. . cor. . 〈◊〉 in these , god gives an indulgence , and bid● us so long as the date of indifferency in doreth , bea with the 〈…〉 cor. . you shall not finde that paul 〈…〉 with the unlimited practise of dayes and meates 〈…〉 and in all cases , as for the case of scandall , 〈…〉 the practise , to the scandalizing of the weake , and calleth it soul-murther , and here it in like the church may suffer sinfull ignorances , for ●s the magistrate is not to publish all externals , sinnes of inf●rmity against the second table , ●or then humaine societies must be dissolved , and 〈…〉 subsist , except there be a reciprocall ye●lding to the infirmities of men , as they are weake and 〈◊〉 ; as we must not make a man an offender for a word , though it bee a hasty and sinful word , even in a family where the lord of the house hath the power of the 〈◊〉 , and proportionally in other societies , we would heare solomon saying , eccles . . also take not heed to all words that are spoken , least thou leave thy servant curse thee . so it would appeare , that some lower errours , that are farre off , without the compasse of the ordinary discerning of man , and lye at a distance from the 〈…〉 on ( as fundametals , and gospell promises lye heard the heart of christ ) may bee dispensed with as a conjectur● , what became of the meate that christ eats after his resurrection , when he was now in the state of immortality , and some probable opinions that , neither better the holder , no● much promove or hinder the edification of others , are not much to be 〈◊〉 , save that 〈…〉 is sinfull , and happily may bee tollerated : or whether the heavens and 〈◊〉 , after the day of judgement , shall be 〈…〉 and turned to nothing , and be no 〈◊〉 or if 〈◊〉 shal be renewed , and delivered from vanity and indeed with new 〈◊〉 to stand 〈◊〉 as lasting and eternall 〈…〉 and witnesses of the glory of god ▪ 〈…〉 christs , and the redeemed in heaven in 〈…〉 live in glory to be eternall lectures , and testimonies of the glory of the lord , redeemer and sanctifier of his people ▪ 〈…〉 most probable , and the scripture may 〈◊〉 to say much some other side . for diverse expositions of one and 〈…〉 heavens and new earth , when 〈…〉 of the expositions , so farre as is revealed ●o the godly and learned , who in this life doe but know and prophesie in part , doe neither doubt the fundation , 〈…〉 truth , that is non-fundamentall , we think the opinion of both may be tollerated , even though the one of them be in it selfe an errour , and that upon the ground that church and magistrates both are to tollerate , not to punish these infirmities , against both tables , that are the necessary results of sin originall , common to all men , as men , 〈◊〉 about with them a body of sin . and the like i say another the like opinions about matters of religion , and especially matters of fact , as the virginity of mary for all her life . such opinions and practise ●●as make an evident schisme in a church , and set up two distinct churches , of different formes of government , and pretending to different institutions of christ , of which the one must by the nature of their principles labour the destruction of the other , cannot be tollerated , &c. for each pretending their fellow churches to bee of man , and so of the devill , though they should both make one true invisible church , agreeing in all fundamentals , and many other truths , yet sure the whole should be a kingdome devided against it selfe , 〈…〉 destroyeth peace much 〈…〉 the devisions of one and the 〈◊〉 church of 〈◊〉 though they pretended not to be different churches , for those that said they were of paul professed they could not be disciples of peter , but he sharpely rebuked them 〈◊〉 man , and such as devided christ , and by consequence must say , paul was crucified for them , and was their redeemer , and so , if obstinately they had proceeded 〈◊〉 that separation , paul would have none on to higher censures of the church : farre more could he not end●●e gathering of true churches out of true churches , which is the professed practise of independents : and yet both sides pretending the spirit of descerning ; could say , the spirit testifies to my soule that paul is the onely called preacher , and the other , nay but to my discerning cepha● or peter is the onely man , that i can heare or follow . and a third , nay , not any on earth , nor any ministery wil i acknowledge , but jesus christ whom the heavens must containe till the last day , 〈◊〉 my onely , onely preacher , now if a jezabel come in and say no ministry is to be heard but christ , and turne away all from hearing the word , and not suffer sergiur 〈◊〉 or any other to hear paul or any godly minister , sure jezabel should be a perverter of the right wayes of the lord , and so not 〈◊〉 suffered . as touching opinions more manifesty erronious a● justine marty● his saving of men 〈◊〉 , of they used the light of nature wel , though they were ignorant of christ , the montanisme of tertullian , and his way of damning 〈◊〉 mariage ( which the very jesuit tole●u● commiteur in joan. said he wrote contro fidem catholicam , against the catholick faith ) and augustine his condemning of all in 〈◊〉 dying without baptisme , and origen his 〈◊〉 at a so●● of purgatory after death , the greek fathers their presidence of good works , and faith as the causes of predestination , their pelag●●nisme and semi-p●lagianisme touching men● freewll beginning and meeting gods grace , especially , hard sayings of chrysostome , greg●● nyssy●●● , and others , and the 〈…〉 hieronymus , nostrum est incipere & dei 〈◊〉 〈…〉 extolling of the bishop if rome , for personall gifts , their orations of 〈…〉 to the martyrs dead ; without 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with that doubtsome condition , if there be 〈◊〉 feeling of our affaires in the dead , which was the ground worke of invocation of saints , it is a question and to be proved , whether the church and christian magistrate ( when th●● were any ) should tollerate these , for some opinions to truths are as brasse , so as we cannot put a stamp of necessity of edification on them , and some are peeces of gold and foundation stones , so other truths are neare of blood to fundamentalls , and pinnings in the wall , though not foundations , and because the want of them may hurt the 〈◊〉 they must goe as peeces of current silver . onely two or three objections must be removed ; as . rom. . they erred against a law of god ▪ who kept dayes , and abstained from mea●s , concei●ing that the conscience of gods law , did injoyne such a practises whereas there was no such law now , the apostle was perswaded there were no creatures uncleane now ; but to him , who , through error of conscience , believed they were uncleane , v. . yea the earth bring the lords , they might eat swines flesh or meats , though sacrificed to idols , without conscience of a law , cor. c. . c. . yet paul is so far from censuring such weake ones , that he bid● receive them as brethren , and not trouble them with thorny disputations . answ . paul bids receive them , ergo , he bids tollerate them all together ; it follows not , he will have them informed that there is no such divine law that presseth them , and so a morall tolleration of not refuting their error is denyed to them . . he bids receive them in a practice in it selfe , for that time , indifferent ( for cor. . . neither if they did eat , were they the better , nor if they did not eat , were they the worse ) but onely erroneous in the manner , because of the twilight and sparklings of the light of the gospell not fully promulgated to the jewes . will it follow that the jewes should be tollerated still , and perpetually to circumcise and keepe the ceremoniall law , and to teach others so to doe ? for libertines contend for a constant and perpetuall tolleration of all jewish and sinfull practises . ob. . paul speaking of ceremonies , ph. . . saith , let us therefore , as many to be perfect , be th●● minded , and if , in any thing , ye be otherwise minded , god shall reveale even this unto you . . neverthelesse whereunto we have attained , let us walke by the s●me rule , let us minde the same things . answ . this is the onely magna charta abused for liberty of conscience , which yet crosseth it , but favours it now . paul giveth two rules , neither of them are for tolleration , but against it ; the one is for the minde within , the other for the practice without : for the former , he willeth all the perfect to minde this , that is , to endeavour pauls one thing , and to be followers of him , v. . forgetting that which is behind , and pressing toward the marke , and if any be otherwise minded in the matter of circumcision , if he minde the journey toward the garland , god shall cleare his doubts to him there is nothing here for libertines , except we say , let all the godly minde to walke toward the garland , by practising circumcision , ( as if that were the way ) and by tollerating of others to practise jewish ceremonies , and if they be otherwise minded , god shall reveale their error , but in the meane time we are to suffer them to minde that , for the which paul saith , their end is destruction , their belly their god , and they are dogs and evill doers , v. . . . as for the other rule of practise , v. . if it plead for libertines , the sense must be , as far as we have obtained the minde of christ let us practise , that is , let us be circumcised , and teach and professe and publish to others , all the heresies and blasphemies that seeme to us to be true doctrine according to this rule , and let us minde the same thing , let us contend for the garland , and walking according to our conscience our onely rule , and practising unlawfull ceremonies , and publishing and professing all the heresies we can , we minde the same crowne and garland . now except walking according to the rule be restricted to carefull and diligent practising of these things in which we all agree , which must exclude a practising or publishing of doctrines controverted , and that we should abstain from practising and publishing of opinions in which we agree not , nothing can be extorted hence in favour of tolleration . our brethren say , let us gather churches out of true churches , and separate our selves from true churches , and preach familisme , antinomianisme , arrianisme , and what not ? and then we walke according to the same rule , which must be most contradictory to the 〈◊〉 of the holy ghost , and therefore libertines durst 〈◊〉 draw a formall argument for tolleration out of these or any other places , but bring us such reasons as by the nineteenth consequence comes not up to the purpose ; for by the glosse of libertines , let us walke according to the 〈◊〉 rule , must be , let us practise and walke ( for it cannot be meant ●f heart-opinions ) according to the known rule conceived by our conscience to be right ( though it may be wrong and sinfull ) and so let us be circumcised , and make a faire shew in the flesh as the false apostles did , for if some beleeved circumcision , and the law to be necessary for justification , then paul must bid them walke contrary to their light , and then the perfect had attained light to practise unlawfull jewish ceremonies . chap. viii . whether heresie be a sin , or a meer error and innocency : whether a● hereticke be an evill doer ? what is naked and meere simple heresie ( say the belgick arminians ) but a meere device ? or is heresie onely error ( say they ) which hath place in the minde of him that erreth : nor is error sufficient to constitute a thing heresie , nor if it were , is it the object or cause of any punishment , a meere error does not goe out of 〈◊〉 that erreth , he that erreth cannot be punished● the minde of man is not lyable to any command , onely god commandeth 〈◊〉 , thoughts are free from paying tribute to men , pertinacy is not of the nature of heresie , nor blasphemy ; nor if they were , can heretickes therefore be punished ? nor doth sedition make heresie punishable ; so they make heresie nothing but a name , who ( say they ) can say an hereticke is an evill doer ? evill doers confesse their evill deeds , and know them to be worthy of punishment , by the law of god and man : heretickes deny they are hereticks , or that they have any bad opinions , or that they blaspheme , they professe the contrary , that they are ready to dye an hundreth deaths rather then they should blaspheme , theeves steale , that they may steale , heretickes seduce not , that they may seduce , but that they may reduce men to a better minde and 〈◊〉 them from 〈…〉 . so 〈◊〉 oelsut also de heret●●i● 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 . f. , . asser . . but . though neither we nor libertines could define idolatry nor murther , nor adultery , yet sure the law of god condemne● idolatry , murther , adultery 〈◊〉 sins ; this is the custome of juglers and sophisters , who deny there is such a thing as robbing , or hedge-robbers , why , what 〈◊〉 hedge-robbing you cannot define it , and not one of twenty , agree with another what hedge-robbers are , therefore there is not such a thing as an hedge-robber . nor doe sorcerers confesse they are sorcerers , nor can you tell what so 〈◊〉 it ; and there is not such a thing in the world : so many 〈◊〉 . asser . . heresie is not a meere error , nor innocency , but a hainous transgression against god. . because paul , gal. . ver . , , . reckoneth heresies among the workes of ●he flesh , with idolatry , witchcraft , envy , strife , and sedition , then it is a worke of the devill , and of sinfull flesh . . that which god permitteth , that those that are approved may be made manifest in the church of christ , that must be a sinne , but such is heresie , cor. . . . grievous wolves not sparing the flocke , false prophets , and false christs , who deceive ( if it were possible ) the very elect , such as make their disciples twofold the children of the devill , theeves and robbers , who come to steale and to kill , and to drinke the blood of soules , these who subvert whole houses , and whose word eat as a gangreen , are not innocent , and simply erring men , nor is their error , simple error , but a high trangression against god , but such are heretickes , act. . , . mat. . . mat. . . joh. . , , tit. . . tim. . . . these who are deceivers and deceived , unruly , and vaine talkers , to be rebuked sharpely , that they may be sound in the faith , and these , whom we are not to receive into our houses , nor bid them god speed , least we be partakers of their evill doings , these of whom we are to be aware , lest they insnare us , and whom we are , after once or twice admonition , to reject , and from whom we are to turne away , must bee such as doe more then simply erre in minde , and their errors being so pernitious must come out of him that erreth , and subverteth whole houses , and lead 〈◊〉 women captive laden with divers lusts , and must be subject to commands of those that are in place , since they are to be sharply rebuked are not innocent , but doe grievously sinne and are punishable . but such are hereticks , tit. . , , . joh. . . tim. . . tit. . . tim. . . such as doe evill and that as false teachers , and resist the truth , at james and jambres resisted moses , and doe paul and the faithfull preachers of the gospell much evill , in perverting soules and in withstanding the gospel , as alexander the copper-smith did , who subvert whole houses , lead soules captive , deceive many , who speake words which eate the soules of many as a canker , and subvert the faith of many , though they deny they doe evill , or seduce any , or that they intend to seduce any , are evill doers , not innocent . but such are hereticks who privilie bring in damnable heresies , and make merchandize of men , with faire words , and buy and sell soules , pet. . , , , . tim. . . tim. . , . tim. . . tim. . , . these cannot bee innocent , nor free of all commands , rebukes , punishment , whom the holy ghost stiles proud , perverse disputers , men of corrupt minds , destitute of the truth , tim. . , . false christs , matth. . . deceivers , tit. . . men of corrupt mindes , reprobate concerning the faith , tim. . , . whose folly shall be made knowne to many , who are selfe condemned , as knowing ( if they would not winke and shut their eyes at noone-day ) that they deceive , and are deceived , tit. . . these and many other things in these seducing teachers doe evidence that heresie , and seducing teaching of hereticks are not a simple disease in the mind , since they are willingly ignorant , pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as such as beleeved baal to be god , and worship him , are such of whom the lord saith , jer. . . through deceit they refuse to know me , saith the lord. the holy ghost saith they doe much evill , resist the truth , buy mens soules as if they were merchants , are perverse disputers , are proud , unruly , talkers , all which showeth that their will hath an influence in their knowledge and mind . all the arguments of libertines against the definition of an heretick , tend to prove that there is not such a thing as an hereticke in the world as if a robber arraigned upon his head before a judge , would say , there is no such thing in the world as robbery , it is a meere fiction , or their reasons partinary , which we say is the formal reason and essence of heresie , is onely in the heart , and knowne to god onely , and therefore , since neither the church , nor the magistrate know the heart , we must leave it to god , all mens judgements of the heart are uncertain , and deceiving conjectures , no man of set purpose desires to doe evill , but when hee knowes he does evill , no man perswades himselfe that he erreth , when the matter is about eternall salvation , therefore it is not lawfull to charge any heretick that he acts malice against his light , charity perswadeth another thing , and who knowingly ( saith minus celsus ) and willingly sinnes against the knowne truth , his crime is not properly heresie , but the sin and blasphemy against the holy ghost for whom we are not to pray , and is a sin that shall never be pardoned , and therefore it is in vaine to accuse this man of heresie . answ . this vaine argument of foolish men is against the holy ghost , not against us , for charity then must forbid us ▪ to judge evill of our brother , or to beware of him , to avoide him , to admonish or rebuke him for heresie , for a sin knowne to god onely , or to reject him , or to refuse him lodging in our house , or to bid him god speed , for you condemn him and flee and avoyd him as an heretick , and in so doing ye take gods office on you to judge the heart , now when the holy ghost bids us admonish , rebuke , instruct with meeknesse : heretickes , if they wil not be gained , reject and avoid them , doth he not clearly hold forth that hereticks may be knowne ; when solomon saith , goe not by the doore of the whore , make no friendship with an angry●man , be not companions with theeves and robbers , doth he not insinuate , that the whore and the angry man , and the theefe may be known or would he say , the whore is onely knowne to god , and charity forbids you to judge any wom●n a whore , or any teacher , who saith he would show you the str●ight way to heaven , and the way that he himselfe walketh in , and no man perswades himselfe that he erreth when the matter is concerning his owne eternall salvation , and it is onely knowne to god whether he be an hereticke or no , yet admonish him at an heretick , and reject him and avoid his company as a heretick . this is as much as if a phisitian would say , it is impossible to any man to know , save god onely , what houses are infected with the pestilence , yet i councell you , for your health , goe not into any pest-house . it is most false that pertinacy is knowne to god only , that pertinacy that evidenceth it selfe to us , by such markes and outward evidences is knowne to us , as such a familist , a socinian leadeth silly women captive , and subverteth the faith of many , and causeth simple people to beleeve the god manifested in the flesh and crucified , is nothing but a saint-suffering , and having much of god and saving grace evidenced in him , and he is ones and twice by word and writing admonished , but he still goeth on and seduceth many , then he is so farre pertinacious , as ye may judge him an heretick , and having tryed that hee is an hereticall spirit , avoid him , and bid him not god speed , doth not paul exhort the elders of ephesus to take heede of ravening wolves that should arise and speake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perverse things to draw away disciples after them , and they should not spare the flock , act. . , . yea ; but our ab●ominable libertines come in and say , elders of ephesus , be charitable , judge them not to be grievous wolves , least ye condemn them for wolves before men , who are the redeemed sheepe of christ in the high court , it is true , they speake perverse things , as yee apprehend , but elders , are you infallible now ? when paul and the apostles are departed this life , they judge that you speake perverse things , and ye are the grievous wolves . you heare them speake new doctrines , it is true , but you know not whether they be pertinacious , pertinacy is in the heart onely , be charitable , for only god knowes the heart , say not 〈◊〉 the flocke they are ravening wolves , seducers , and that knowingly and willingly they sin against the knowne truth , no man erreth dedi●● opera of set purpose , nor perswades himselfe that he erres , when the matter is concerning eternall salvation , charity forbids you to ascribe malitiousnesse of erring to men , who erre not with their will , and you church and angell of the churches of pergamus and of thyat●ra , be charitable and judge not those that teach the doctrine of balaam , and jezabell to be false prophets , you heare their words , but god only tryeth the reignes and the heart , you know not whether they teach , what they teach , with pertinacy , all judging of the minde and heart of others are uncertaine conjectures , neither they nor any other doe give beleeving , and being perswaded , that they erre , when the matter is of such concernment as eternall salvation . . nor is the crime , the blasphemy against the holy ghost , when any doe maliciously resist the truth . . when there is not a high measure of illumination and perswasion going before , which is not in every hereticke . . when pertinacy is bent against a side and party of godly men , not so much for despite and malice against them as they are godly ; or out of despite to the spirit of grace , as out of a minde puft up with love-sicknesse , of their owne learning , and great parts , and undervaluing of a contrary faction , as they suppose , for there be divers branches of opposing the knowne truth , as from fleshly lusts , pet. . . . pet. . . from pride , tim. . , , . from avarice and love of the world , v. . pet. . . , . and yet all maliciously , that are not to be judged the sin against the holy ghost , except , it be such an opposing of the knowne truth as comes from the spirituall malicious opposing of god and his knowne truth , as the devills did ; and it may be also that some heretickes sin the sin against the holy ghost in teaching lyes in hypocrisie , as the pharisees did , who leave not off for that to be hereticks and false teachers . . where men are savingly and soundly perswaded that the businesse is a matter of salvation , they will not finally and totally erre , but that there is such a perswasion in heretickes , is utterly denyed by us ; and where there is a perswasion in great measure , but literall , and historicall , and faith thereunto answerable , that the matter is eternall salvation and damnation , that they doe not erre and lead other captives to their error , is denyed , and it is more charity of hereticks who are selfe-condemned by their owne heart , tit. . . and are willingly ignorant , pet. . . then the holy ghost allows . . yea this will make heresie and hereticks that are to the holy ghost seducers , ●a●ching wolves , subverters of the faith of others , theeves , and robbers , foxes , reprobate concerning the faith , selfe-condemned ; to be godly , zealous , innocent , erring against their will ; free of malice , and so the holy ghost must doe a great deale of injury ●o 〈◊〉 who goe for hereticks , in this characterizing them 〈◊〉 us 〈…〉 titles and characters , which no mortall man can give to them . but what surer signe can there be ( saith celsus ) of no evill conscience then that a man will spend his blood , neglect his life , drink a cup which was so horrible to christ , that it caused him sweat blood , and fall on the earth , and yet he will joyfully dye rather , ere hee quit the knowne truth , this he must doe for some end ? and is there any man who will willingly chuse eternall destruction ? nor can his and be pleasure , for he is to leave all these ; wife , children , goods ; nor honour , for an hereticke dyes a most infamous man , and full of reproaches . answ . this renders the hereticke the most innocent and righteous martyr that ever was ; for if his end be onely life eternall , and none of the three ends which lead all sinners , neither pleasure , nor profit , nor honour , joh. . . and if he ought to follow his conscience , all heresie shall be nothing but a most innocent , harmelesse , godly and zealous errour , why then doth this author say , it is such a sinne as he is selfe-condemned , that is , as he expoundeth it , though there were not a god , nor any other to condemne him , yet he is condemned of himselfe ? why doth the holy ghost bid us turne away from such a godly innocent man , who loveth the truth of christ , christ and heaven , better then father , mother , brother , sister , lands , inheritances , his owne glory and name , yea nor his owne life , sure he must be the man to whom life eternall , and a hundreth fold more is due by the promise of our saviour , matth. . , . yea he doth more then merit life eternall , he is free of selfe , any aime to pleasure , profit , honour , or any created thing , and mindes god onely as his end ; but can his end ; though never so good , justifie his heresie , or his dying for a lye ? let celsus , or any libertine , shew what end the fathers had in killing their sonnes and daughters to god ? the holy ghost saith , they sacrifice to devills , not to god , but they would not say they intended to gratifie the devill , but to serve god in giving the dearest thing they had for god ; and could their end be pleasure , profit , honour ? to looke on these , except in a spirituall fury , and mad zeal , that sathan inspired them withall , is folly , for there was no pleasure in it but sorrow , no gaine , but to lose a sweet child , but it purchased to them great glory to be said to love their lord god , above the fruit of their body , and to give the fruit of their body for the sin of their soul . religio tantum potuit suadere malorum . that they might be delivered from the torment of conscience they were under , and the fury and hellish zeale of not sparing the flesh , and losing the life for an heresie , which the hereticke knowes through the glimmering of a conscience deluded , to be a heresie , but will revenge , on a contrary sect , of a contrary opinion , desire of glory , and a name of knowledge , of a great wit , singular holinesse blind the light , and what was their end who baked bread , and warmed themselves with a part of an ash tree , and of the residue made a god and worshipped it ? it is a vaine thing to aske what rationall end a man hath in these , for god hath judicially shut his eyes and his heart , as the devill hath runne away with his naturall wit. . it is bad divinity to say there was no other cup offered to christ , but the cup of temporary death offered to all the martyrs , as if christ suffered not the wrath of god , and death , due by justice , to all the elect , whose sinnes hee bare , he must thinke basely of christ , the grace of union and of unction of whom it is said , esa . . he shall not be discouraged , who teacheth that the feare and apprehension of death temporary caused him sweat blood ; and complain , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me ? and what comfort have we in christs death , if he suffered not that which is equivalent to eternall wrath ? and if he suffered no other death then a godly martyr did , whereupon minus celsus goeth on to extoll heathens , who dyed worthily for the hope of eternity , as anaxarchus , who bad the enemies beat the bellows , not anaxarchus , when they were hammering him alive with iron hammers , and hannibal who , lest he should come into the hands of the romans , dranke the poyson which he carried under a pearle in his ring , hoping for immortality ; these and the like serve to equall the death of hanniball and jesus christ , and to make anaxarchus , hannibal , empedecies , seneca , who judas-like murthered themselves , to be freed of servitude , and upon the leane and empty hope they had of eternall life , to have dyed conscienti● non mal● , with no ill conscience ; for neither pleasure , profit , nor honour , but for the hope of life eternall , as the martyrs of the devill doe , especially servetus who dyed roaring and crying like a hopelesse beast ; as if there could be a good conscience in hannibal , or any heathen , who knew and heard nothing of a conscience sprinkled in the blood of jesus , and purged from dead workes , to serve the living god , as if heathen selfe-murtherers , who against the law of nature kill themselves , deserved no more to bee punished by the magistrat●●he minister of god , then a godly innocent hereticke burnt for blaspheming of the trinity and the sonne of god : as a despairing dog servetus dyed , and that they had officax signum conscientiae non malae , they had truly a good conscience , were free of hypocrisie , or vaine-glory , or any bad end in killing themselves , this serves as much to free the most desperate and hellish murtherer , from the sword of the minister of god as heresie : so celsus playes the atheist egregiously in setting selfe-murtherers , hannibal , seneca , empedocles , slaves of vaine-glory up at the right hand of god with christ . but if celsus would but offer a shadow of an argument , it should be thus , innocent men that dye for no worldly end , and will both willingly be killed , and kill themselves with their owne hands , for no end but to obtaine life eternall , and because they will not doe that which an erroneous conscience , stuffed with , arrogancie , pride , self-allo●ation of learning , zeal , and a name , judgeth to be sin , are not to be punished by the sword , but such are hereticks willing to be martyrs for the devill , and heathen that kill themselves to obtain eternall life ; ergo , the major is false , the assumption bloody and unjust , the conclusion blasphemous and atheisticall . . consider how celsus proveth that the heretickes that dye for heresies is not taken with vaine-glory ▪ and for a name , because a hereticke dyes infamous and filled with reproach , but make an argument of that , he that dyes for that which , in the opinion of the contrary side , is infamous and reproachfull , cannot dye for a name among men , and vaine-glory ; but he that dyes for heresie , dyes so , ergo , the major is most false , for to dye for heresie in the estimation of the heretick , and of all of his opinion , and of all , that for all after generations shall be of his opinion is no reproach , but an everlasting name to the hereticke so dying , and a name and glory with men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an opinion , and is coyned , lives and breaths in the conceit and braine of men ; we all say , lucretia , seneca , ca●o , dyed for vaine-glory , for to the romans it was glorious , yet they dyed truly and really infamous ; for christians , who know what true honour and true liberty is , say and truly thinke , they dyed infamous , and shamelesse murtherers and slaves to the people , and the aire and breath of the peoples mouth , and their empty plaudite . . nor will any man ( far lesse an hereticke ) willingly chuse the destruction of his owne soule . answ . an atheist sticks not to contradict god , prov. . . all they that hate me love death ; but false teachers and hereticks , hate wisdome and christ , deut. . . not to follow god is to hate god , he denyes the lord that bought him he is proud , destitute of the truth , a vaine and unruly talker , reprobate as concerning faith , leads captive soules , and such cannot chuse the feare of the lord. . he speaketh like an heathen ; for the will of hereticks and of all godlesse men is captive , and the will they have is to serve the devill , and though we could not tell determinately what end an hereticke hath , in dying for his heresie , it cannot prove his innocencie . yea the donatists killed themselves , and cast themselves downe head-long from an high place , they did that ( saith mr. celsus ) out of obstinacy and malice to be avenged on catholicks , and bring them under the guilt of persecuters , which was an evill conscience in them , but there can be no evill conscience in an heretick dying for his opinion , an hereticke dying for his opinion cannot have an ill conscience , he prayes to god , commends his safety to him , acknowledgeth christ his son , his redeemer and saviour , sings hymnes and praises in the midst of the flames of fire . answ . that is a conjecture that donatists and circumce●●ions killed themselves to be revenged on catholicks , augustine neither ep. . nor ep. . nor elsewhere makes mention of such an end they had , but because they beleeved it was happinesse to dye for christ ; yea though so it were , praying and praising , and crying , the temple of the lord , will he say there can be no malice in theeves , murtherers , adulterers , perjured persons , walkers after other gods , and such as kill their sonnes to the devill in top●e● , jer. . , , , . , . and in bloody persecuters , who said the lord be glorified , esa , . . and in these that thinke they doe god service , in killing the apostles of the lord , joh. . . the man speakes not like a divine but an atheist , and most that are for libertinisme , to me are atheists . . when servetus and other martyrs of the devill dye●● , we heard nothing of their singing of psalmes in the fire . paul 〈◊〉 a swearer , and a drunkard , who denies the deity of the son of god , is not one of these . but celsus ( i conceive ) thinkes the godly martyrs that the bloody mother of fornications babylon hath killed , for the testimony of jesus ; were heretickes , because they had no certainty of faith for the truths they were burnt for , because the faith of libertines is scepticisme . . heretickes may , before men , pray and acknowledge a saviour , but as the formall of heresie , so of sound faith is in the heart , and unseen to celsus , and therefore this argument is but a conjecture , and so paul , tim. . saith , those that 〈◊〉 from the faith , have but a form of godlinesse , & deny the power thereof , though heretickes acknowledge a redeemer , which yet may be questioned whether they doe all so , even those who deny the lord that bought them , yet these arguments of celsus and libertines plead for liberty of conscience , not onely to hereticks , that acknowledge a redeemer , but to all , to open blasphemers , apostates from the christian faith to judaisme and mahometisme , for should any christian turn jew ( as some have done , and pray to god , and be willing to dye for judaisme and acknowledge the messiah to come , libertines can no more make a window in this mans conscience to see his end in so doing , and know infallibly that neither pleasure , profit , nor honour led him , but meere and onely principles of religion , in regard places in the new testament cite passages of the old so farre , seemingly , to reason contrary to the scope of the prophets , then you can see to the conscience of a hereticke , and religion is to be compelled in no man , one or other , nor the sword or violence used against any ; though celsus and the belgick remonstrants thinke false teachers may rather be banished and imprisoned , le●t they pervert the faith of others . but if they yeeld any corporall restraint or violence may be used against false teachers , they fall from their cause and lose all their arguments for one degree of one violence ( though banishment be cousen germanes to death , and to some who cannot live and subsist but in england , as there are many such , far worse ) can no more be used against the conscience , then forcing of ten degrees , or tormenting deaths . but● saith celsus ) heretickes that dye for their heresie are stupid and drunken . but how can stupidity and malice be in one , ( saith he ) malice is not without certaine knowledge , stupidity deprives men of knowledge , and render them blocks , can ye find a man who willingly and wittingly makes defection from god and resists the truth against his owne conscience , and yet is so stupid that he knowes not what he doth , and can indure foolishly to dye for maintaining a lye ? answ . if the author were not stupid , hee would not declare himselfe so atheistically ignorant of spirituall stupidity ; for highest malice and a hardened and fatned heart , eyes , eares , and a heart that cannot see , heare , or perceive , and so are spiritually stupid , doe not lodge sundered one from another , esay . , , . hath this man read the word , esay . stay your selves and wonder , cry ye out , and cry , they are drunken but not with wine , they stagger , but not with strong drink . . the lord hath powred out upon you the spirit of a deep sleep , and hath closed your eyes ; the prophets and your rulers , the seers hath he covered , and yet these same were deep hypocrites , and malicious opposers of the wayes of god , enemies to , and persecuters of the true prophets sent of god : v. . and who were these but scribes & pharisees , in whom there was as much malice against christ and his disciples , as can be in the devill , or such as sin against the holy ghost ? as may be seen , matth. , , . matth. . , . matth. . , , , , , . and god powred the spirit of slumber on the jewes , rom. . . . and there was superlative malice in them against the knowne truth , act. . . . and blasphemy , act. . , , , . and yet these men in evill , and as touching litterall knowledge know well what they were doing ( though they were spiritually blocks . ) see matth. . , , . joh. . . joh. . . they privily bring in ( pet. . ) damnable heresies , they make merchandise of you with faire words , then they wanted not devillish wit enough . and tim. . . they speake lyes out of hypocrisie and the doctrine of devills , forbidding meates and marriage , there is wit , for these look like singular mortification , yet they have a conscience so stupid , as it were burnt with a hot iron . this also is grosse ignorance in libertines , that they thinke those who sinne against knowledge , and conscience and out of malice , as those that sin against the holy ghost , doe not sinne through ignorance also , which is most false , for the most malicious sin against knowledge hath an interpritative ignorance con●oyned with it , as the pharisees who sinned against the holy ghost , in crucifying christ ( some of them as is cleare , joh. . . joh. . , and else where ) yet they sinned ignorantly also , for had thy knowne , they would not have crucified the lord of glory , cor. . . chap. ix . of liberty of prophesying of erroneous inditement of conscience that it is not our rule . but we judge that hereticks admonished and convinced of their errour doe sinne on the borders , at least , of the sin against the holy ghost , in regard they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , selfe condemned , as paul saith , tit. . . a man that is an hereticke after the first and second admonition , reject . . knowing that he , that is such , is subverted , and sinneth , being condemned of himselfe . where the apostle saith , an admonished and wrought upon hereticke , who is convinced of the truth , and yet still resisteth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he is perverted , or subverted , desperately perverted , like a building throwne downe to the foundation . . he finneth , as condemned of himselfe , that is , judged and condemned by his owne conscience , and so sinneth willfully , and with a high measure of light , but hee shutteth his eyes against the light and known truth , and resisteth it . the hereticke here spoken of , tit. . . is not the man who moves such questions ( say they ) as he knowes to be vaine and light as arminians say . for as vedelius saith , he expresly speakes of an heretick . it is a question , if any bee called an hereticke in the word , because he moves such questions . . the hereticke here is subverted , and so turned off the foundation christ . but he that moveth vaine and unprofitable questions can at best , but build his hay & stubble upon the foundation christ ; now such a man may bee builded on the foundation , and saved , though the fire destroy his worke , and so he is not turned off the foundation . yea , if he wittingly and willingly move vain and light questions he cannot be saved , nor doth that follow , for his knowledg of the levity of these questions aggravates his sin , but cannot cause to amount to a sin so high as to subvert the mans faith , because he may keepe the foundation , though he hold these vaine and light opinions , for they are not in themselves destructive of the foundation . . there is no mention , nor any hint here of vaine and light questions , but of admonished heretickes , therefore eusebius l. . c. . referres it to those that deny christs divinity , to marcion and corinthus , and they say john would not stay in the stoves with cerinthus , and polycarpus his disciple would not speake with marcion , but said , i know thee to be the first borne of sathan . . it is here to be noted , that these authors also make the conscience , though erroneous even in fundamentalls , the rule of faith , if the person beleeve that he worships god according to the rule of the word , and there be some morall honesty in him , and so teach there should be a toleration of al hereticks , then no man is the heretick , but he who professeth points of truth , which he believeth to be lyes & untruth ; but so there is not an hereticke in the world , but the devill , and such as professe a false religion , before men , which in their conscience they beleeve to be false . but the apostle saith , tim. . now the spirit speaketh expresly that in the latter times men shall depart from the faith , giving beed to seducing spirits ( popish priests and familists ) and doctrine of devills , . speaking lyes in hypocrisie , having their conscience seared with an hot iron , . forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstaine from meats . now a seared conscience burnt with an hot iron may and doth teach marriage to be unlawfull to some , and doe beleeve it for a truth , that church-men should not intangle themselves with the affaires of this life , such as marriage and care of children , because pastors goe a warfare for jesus christ , yet the text saith , they that so teach are seducers , who with a seared conscience , speake lyes in hypocrisie , and so must be hereticks and worse . . no rule can be falser , and more crooked then the conscience , for if ye must be obliged to follow conscience , because it is conscience , or because right or wrong ; if you must follow conscience because conscience , yee must ever follow your conscience , though never so wrong ; for the most erroneous conscience is conscience , though the devill should immediately actuate it , yet doth not leave off to bee conscience , and to be the rule , and if so , when the conscience of some saith its good service to god to kill the apostles of our lord , because they preach the gospel , then doe persecuters nothing , but what they are in duty bound to doe , when they murther the apostles , because they preach the gospel ; for to follow the rule , which god hath appointed must be a bounden duty . and the same must follow , if the conscience as evill be the rule , for then should men serve god , in sacrificing their sonnes to god , in community and plurality of wives , when ever their conscience should dictate any such thing to be lawfull , though , in it selfe , it be most contrary to the word of god. if the conscience as good , or as the arminians seeme to say , as principled with morall honesty be our rule , then the conscience as conscience is not the rule , but as it is ruled by morall honesty , this wee cannot say , for morall honesty qualifying the conscience as a rule , is not able to render the conscience a streight and perfect rule in supernaturall duties , since it is but a naturall principle in us , and that a most corrupt one , by reason of sin , and how then should it regulate us in all the wayes of the service and worship of god ? should it ever oblige us to beleeve in him , who justifieth the ungodly ? . againe , the lord maketh the law and his revealed will in the word , the rule of all our actions , deut. . , . deut , . , . ps . . . king. . . . if that which is called liberty of prophesying be examined , it is either a liberty of beleeving , and teaching what is intrinsecally true according to the word , now this they will not say , for we deny not liberty to prophesie truth to all that are called to publish it . or secondly , it is a liberty to prophesie what is false , which is conceived to be false , that is devillish licence not liberty ; sure god hath allowed no such liberty to men to prophesie falsely , and to destroy soules , in this meaning , god hath no more allowed us liberty of prophesying false things , then liberty of killing , whoreing , robbing , or lying . or thirdly , liberty of prophesying is liberty of prophesying truths or falsehood , which yet are conceived to be truth not falsehood by those who prophesie ; nor hath god given so a liberty of prophesying , for every true liberty of prophesying , god hath given to his prophets and apostles , if it bee a lawfull gift , the use thereof is commanded and injoyned to us , as the arminians say it is in these words , thess . . , . quench not the spirit , despise not prophesying , for they say , the meaning of these words are , quench not the spirituall sense of the word which any man saith and perswadeth himselfe he hath from the spirit of god , that is , either by inspiration or suggestion of the spirit , or by the helpe of the spirit of god , in which sense the apostles seeme to take the word , thess . . . joh. . . now all the liberty of prophesying is here set upon a brazen pillar of ( so it seemes to be ) and we say ( so it seemes not to be ) but god certainly will not have nathan , david , samuel , ezechiel , in either old or new testament , to extinguish the spirit , or to despise prophesying , but god gave no liberty ; nor entered it ever in his heart to command such liberty of prophesying to his prophets of old , except we say , that god gave to nathan liberty to say to david , doe all that is in thine heart , build thou the temple , and the lord shall be with thee , which was an untruth , and that god bad samuel say of eliah , he is the lords anointed , and gave him liberty to prophesie that which was false , whereas the lord saith to ezechiel , ch . . heare the word of my mouth , and jeremiah c. . . arise and speake unto them all that i command thee ; and thereby bindes them up , and denyeth all liberty of preaching or prophesying their owne word , or their owne perswasions , even under the notion of the word of the lord , and doubtlesse when nathan exhorted david to build the temple , and samuel said , that eliah was the lords . anointed , they spake not that as their owne word , but were perswaded that god revealed himselfe to them , though both were mistaken grossely ; so christ saith to his apostles , matth. . , . goe preach , teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you ; he interditeth them upon the same reason to bring any of their owne commandements flowing from their owne spirit , under any pretence , though they thinke them right , though peter should conceive to judaize a little , gal. . was the minde of christ , and hee might preach it , and practise it , as the minde of christ , yet peter and all the apostles , matth. . are bound up ▪ they have no liberty of conscience to preach their owne ( videtur ) so it seemes ; for then should our faith be ultimately resolved into mens phansies , and ( so thinketh our reverend saltmarsh , or wil. del ) and not into the word of god. libertines say their goddesse , their diana , is strangled and fettered , and the spirit it quenched , if this liberty of prophesying be denyed to them ; but to restraine liberty of sinning and lying , is no violence done to the spirit of prophesie , but this exposition calleth the phansies of men the spirituall sense of the word of god , as familists and antinomians in england father their dreames upon the spirit of god. so pe● . stairie , who ordinarily preacheth the rovings of his own phansie , taught . oct. . before the house of commons , after the houses passed a brave ordinance for liberty of conscience and prophesying , that the house should not oppose , or resist any thing that pretended to christ . now if he spake this to the house as a parliament , he forbad to hinder a simon magus , an hymeneus , a philetus , a jezabel , a jesuite , to preach ▪ what he pleased , for jesuites pretend to iesus both name and thing , all the familists , sotinians , arrians , libertines , and false teachers , who deceive ( if it were possible ) the very elect , pretend to iesus christ , and to the anointing . if he spake to the people , they are not by the word of truth , nor all the ministers in england to refute the false teachers that pretend to christ , for to refute them , were to oppose and resist them , for if they pretend to christ , you know not since yee are not infallible , but they may be teachers , sent of god , though they bee the most errand seducers that ever spake , and so they are no wayes to be resisted , who resist the truth . ▪ quench not the spirit , must have this meaning , quench not the dreames of independents , libertines , antinomians , for they perswade themselves they have the spirit of god and minde of christ , in all they speak . but this quench not the spirit , is , cherish , entertaine the gracious motions and inspirations of the spirit in your selves , and despise not , that is , highly reverence the preaching of the gospel , separate not the spirit and the word , for it is a litote , where lesse is spoken but more intended , as esay . . ioh. . . but this glosse yeeldeth this sense . despise not the spirit , that is , beleeve what ever a godly preacher saith , be it his owne dreames and rovings to be the word of god , and reverence it , for he perswades himselfe it is so , and speaketh them as the oracles of god , though they be his owne wind-mils , and sparkles of his own vaine-glory . for this , ( not to quench , not to despise ) is undeniably to beleeve these prophesyings as the word of god ▪ how then are we to try all doctrines and spirits , if we are to take all for fi●st that comes into the net ? but since you are not infallible ( say libertines ) it is an extinguishing of the spirit to account that to be the spirit of sathan which agreeth not with your spirit , if your authority were infallible , as that of the apostles was , the answer would have some colour , though the apostles used not that authority to crush liberty of prophesying , but they commend the trying of the spirits , and since our judgement is not infallible , reason requires that we should not desire other spirits pious and good to be oppressed and suffocated . answ . we reject no spirit , because it agrees not with ours ; for our spirit is not the rule , as libertines contend , but because it swerves from the oracles of god ; if any man speake , let him speake as the oracles of god ; let us prophesie according to the proportion of faith . . this answer saith , that no man now in the christian church can try all things , doctrines , and spirits , and refuse the evil and deluding spirits , & hold fast that which is good , and beleeve the spirits , speaking from god , because it is to extinguish the spirit ( say our libertines , ) since we are not infallible apostles to judge these spirits for mad phansies that agree not with our spirit ; we say its impossible to try all things , and hold that which is good , but we must judge false spirits to bee false spirits , not because they agree not with ours ( that is the calumny of libertines ) but because they swerve from the word of truth , though we be not infallible as the apostles were , but this reason supposeth that because of want of apostolick infallibility we should try all spirits , and all doctrines , but condemn , reject , and refuse none , as spirits of the devill , for that is to extinguish the spirit , and pitch and settle our faith upon no doctrine , but like scepticks sail about the coasts of truth all our life , and dye in no beliefe at all . it is false that the apostles did not crush your liberty of prophesying , for paul , thess . . . extinguisheth those spirits who would shake the faith of the thessalonians , to make them beleeve that the day of christ was at hand , for he forbids to beleeve them , and john extinguisheth the familistical and antichristian spirits , who denied c●rist to be come in the flesh . o but ( say libertines ) these false spirits , knew what they preached to be lyes , and yet preached them as from god , and wee stand for no such liberty of prophesying , nor such spirits as these . answ . this is a conjecture , that they beleeved the day of christ was not near hand , and yet preached it was near , there is not one shaddow in the text , or colour hinteth that way : for , familists and seducers now , have not so much to say for their dreams as they had , yea , they had much to say , that made them beleeve that day was near hand , since christ had said , these were the last days , and the apostles do writ it , that new were the last times , and that the end of the world was fallen on them , and they preached al they wrote , and so it is rather like they beleeved the day of christ was near , and the antichrist in jobus time , had as much as seducers now have , to make them beleeve that christ was not come in the flesh , since the blinded jewes alleadged all the prophesies of the old testament as not fulfilled in the son of mary , and sure they had more to make them beleeve it , then gortin , saltmarsh , and other familists ( whom libertines ( i beleeve ) call a part of the godly party ) if they speake according to their conscience , can alleadge for their new , false , and fleshly visions they preach and print . though we be not infallible as the apostles were , yet reason will not say , we should not desire that pious and good spirits , that is , those that call themselves so , but are lyers , to bee extinguished . for wee are to pray that god would cause the unclean spirit , and the false prophet , libertines and others , to cease out of the land , and so faith requires , wee should try them by the word , and pray and desire they were crushed and extinguished , i mean not in their person , but as touching their false doctrine . but present your selfe ( say arminians ) before the tribunal of papists and they will condemne you of heresie , and if you alledge the spirit teacheth you , they will answer , is that the spirit which corrupt and madde reason teacheth you ? the spirit of the devill , said the spirit of christ was the spirit of beelzebub . answ . what inferre libertines hence against us ? this is to place no more power in synods but directive : sir , if it please you , this is gods will. but wee hold lawfull . synods ( which is not in the synagogue of rome or papist ) may as wel rebuke , exhort , and instruct with all authority , as timothy , or any one particular pastor , and this is more than the directive and sceptick teaching of one private libertine , teaching ( with a reserve ) convincing and condemning another in a scepticall way . but all tends to this , protestant synods convened in christs name , can say no more , but wee teach what our judgement is , it may be true , it may be false , yeeld a sceptik consent with a reserve to it , that is all , and why ? because protestant synods convened in the name of antichrist can peremptorily and tirannically condemn the truth as heresie , and say they are infallible , and their synodicall decrees are the very word of god , ergo , protestant synods , may not authoritatively command you in the name of christ to beleeve and receive their lawfull decrees conditionally , after yee finde them agreeable to the word of god , there is no consequence here . prelates condemned the truth as heresie and schisme , pharisees condemned christ as a samaritan , ergo , protestants sound in the faith cannot condemne popery , familisme , and ergo , paul cannot condemne 〈◊〉 as a perverter of the waies of righteousnesse : this is , as if you would say , a robber cannot by law jure condemne a traveller to render his purse , ergo , a judge cannot compell this traveller to pay just debt . we do not instance from the teaching of the spirit , but from the cleare word of god. chap. x. of indulgence in fundamentall , or non-fundamentall errors . but say the arminians , the question is of hereticks , not of those who dare deny the things openly decided in the scripture , but of those who call in question those things that are , or may be contraverted . there was never an heretick who called in question whether theeves , drunkards , robbers , railers , idolaters , shall enter into the kingdome of heaven , or whether god be to beloved above all things , he is not a christian , he is not an hereticke , but worse than a hereticke who denyes those things that are plain and obvious in scripture . but he that layeth a law upon others , which he must follow under pain of death , imprisonment or banishment in things belonging to liberty of prophecying , which are conjoyned with the reverence of god and the scripture , trampleth all prophesies under foot . answ . this definition of an hereticke is in quesion , there be in england who deny all scriptures as no word of god , yet are judged by libertines , not punishable by man. . all things that may be controverted , is wide . nothing but it is converted , except whether there be a god or not , and many doubt of that : there be even now , who deny jesus christ god man , the necessity of his death , his offices , the immortallity of the soule , the resurrection , last judgement , a heaven , a hell , but al to libertines are uncertaine , and the denyall of any point , not by the light of reason , but by supernaturall revelation , such as these articles , that god is one in three distinct persons , that christ is god and man in one person , that he dyed to satisfie divine justice , that we are saved by his righteousnesse imputed to us by faith , &c. is no heresie , but may consist with true godlinesse , and therefore they give instance in fundamentals which are knowne by the light of nature , as that theeves , drunkards shall not inherit the kingdome of god , that god is to bee loved above all things , now th●se are principles of naturall theology known to heathens , so that such godly men , to which libertines would yeeld an indulgence and liberty , are good moral honest civil men , who beleeve fundamentals known by the light of nature to christians and heathens equally , for civill heathens may have the sound faith of al such fundamentals , and beleeving morall and naturall fundamentals , though they know not jesus christ , or possibly never heard of him , may be saved and not be beholden to christ knowne as a saviour , so some libertines tell us , not any man is to suffer death , though he deny and malitiously oppose , all the principles of the gospell , because these are knowne no ways , but by supernaturall revelation , and the light of faith which commeth from god , but i take the ground of this to bee , because supernaturall light is above us , and not in our power , but by this reason , christ should not have rebuked the pharisees for not beleeving in him , nor the sadduces for denying the resurrection , nor should paul have smitten eli●as with blindnesse for perverting sergius paulus from the faith , for it was not in their power to know or beleeve otherwise of these gospel fundamentals that are not beleeved , but by supernaturall revelation , then they did , other libertines say , they are only hereticks or at least punishable by men , who deny fundamentals of cbristian religion , but are sparing to tell us what fundamentals , whether of law and known by the light of nature , or of gospel known onely by supernaturall revellation , so that ere they finde the hereticke , they must show you the point they deny is fundamental , and its possible that is a difficil businesse , whether it be fundamental or not , if he go for a sectarie he is a godly man , and his godlinesse shal prove the poynt is not fundamental , for this is the logick of our time , such a people are godly , therefore their opinions are against no fundamentall point , whereas this is a better consequence ; such points are fundamentall , ergo , if men twice or thrice admonished doe yet wilfully goe on to maintaine opinions manifestly contrary , they are not godly , for the apostle tel● us of doctrine according to godlinesse then must the doctrine soundly beleeved make the person godly or argue him to be so , but the man let him goe for a saint cannot make or argue the doctrine to bee the doctrine according to godlinesse , if it be not so in it self , and we are inclined , if the man be of our own tribe and sect , to defend his tenets , and not to judge them fundamental error . . we wish much an argument to prove bodily violence , or ecclesiasticall co-action may be used against men erring in points fundamentall , but not in non-fundamentals , since god delivers his mind as clearly in non-fundamentals , if not more clearely , as in fundamentals , and the authority of the lord who commands faith is as great in non-fundamentals , and our obligation to beleeve no lesse , then in the most necessary fundamentals , as therefore abstinence from adultery with bathsheba , and murthering of vriah in david , is as necessary , necessitate precepts , as the whole course of davids repentance and turning to god , yet it is not so necessary , necessitate medii , for david is a saved saint , though he absta●●● not from that adultery and murther , but without conversion from the state of sinfull nature to the way of saving grace , it is unpossible david can be saved ; so to abstain from idolatry , and to demolish the high places , and to punish those who resort to them is a godly practice , yet though 〈◊〉 commit idolatry with the golden calfe , yea and make the people naked also : and asa , though he demolish not the high places all his reigne , nor punish any for that idolatry , and did persecute the seer , yet aaron was the faithfull priest , and the anointed of god , and asa and some other kings heart , were perfect before the lord , though they fell in these sins , nor were these fundamentals , sinnes in practice , inconsistent with saving faith , more then errours and teaching of errours in non-fundamentals , to the ruine of many souls doth exclude a possibility of being in the state of saving grace , but it cannot follow , that because teaching and publishing of errours in non-fundamentals is consistent with saving grace , that therefore these non-fundamentall sinnes of murther , adultery , tolerating of idolatrous high places , persecuting of faithfull prophets , making of a golden calfe , and hallowing of it to be adored as the god that brought israel out of aegypt , are sins not to be tolerated in the truly godly , such as aaron , david , and asa , for then should they be tolerated in the wicked also , for the toleration of such in the godly , because they are not fundamental wickednesses , inconsistent with saving grace , is as destructive and more , because of their extream scandalousnesse , to all peace and safety of humaine societies , and to the duty of the godly magistrate , as these same sins in the wicked , upon the same grounds publishing of all errors non-fundamentall , the toleration of the high places are as inconsistent with peace , destructive and injurious to soules , especially in the godly , as scandalous to other false teachers , as these non-fundamentall sins . but ( say they ) the reason is not alike in non-fundamentall sinnes , that are expresly condemned by all , aarons idolatry , davids adultery , asaes persecution , no man ever defended , therefore they cannot bee tolerated by the magistrate without sin , though the acting of these sins may consist with sound faith . but most of non-fundamentalls are not clearly determined in the word , in regard of our dulnesse and naturall blindnesse , and therefore the magistrate cannot punish the non-fundamentall errours , for these which be non-fundamentall errours to some godly and learned , are non-fundamentall and seasonable truths to others , as godly and learned as they are . but to all the godly and learned , aarons idolatry , davids adultery and murther , asa's tolerating the high places , and imprisoning the seer , were sins unjustifiable , and by the light of nature such as no godly magistrate can tolerate . but i answer , if this be a good reason , why there is not the like consideration of these sins non-fundamentall , and doctrines non-fundamentall , because some doctrines non-fundamentall are seasonable truths to some godly and learned , and these same are lyes and untruths to others , as godly and learned as they ; then should also divers fundamentall errours bee tolerated as well as non-fundamentall errours , which independents , the masters of this distinction with the arminians will not say , because to some godly and learned independents , this is a fundamentall truth , that murther , and adultery , and robbery , are not to be tolerated by the magistrate , that magistracy is an ordinance of god , but to many anabaptists as godly and learned as they , it is not onely no fundamentall truth , but a fundamentall errour , under our meeke saviours reigne , there ought to bee neither sword nor speare , but instead of them , plow-shares and pruning hooks , and since libertines will not have godlinesse to be valued by soundnesse in doctrine , but by mens spirits of discerning and charity , independents are to repute familists , socinians , antinomians as godly and learned as themselves : now independents thinke that christ god-man came to satisfie the justice of god for our sinnes , and that ordinances are necessary for all in this life , yet these , and many the like familists and socinians judge fundamentall lyes , and who have any discerning , and have heard mr. john goodwin pray , and seene his writings , which i have done , will repute him as godly and learned as any independent in england : so i judge with correction ; yet he will say the godly and learned independents in england hold many points to bee fundamentall truths which he reputes to bee fundamentall untruths , as namely concerning justification by faith , that the scriptures we now have by the saith whereof we must be saved , is the word of god. mr. joh. goodwin must say these are fundamentall lyes , and many fundamentals in the late confession of ass●mbly , i know m. john goodwin in his writings , denyeth to be fundamentall truths . . it is not enough to say most of the non-fundamentalls are not determined clearely in the word , libertines we 〈◊〉 dispute withall , must say , not any non-fundamentalls are determined in the word , but all fundamentalls are clearly determined , else they must belye their distinction which independents in the apologeticke narration make almost a principle of faith ( though i hope it shall never be one to me ) that all non-fundamentals are to be beleeved without a reserve , and all fundamentalls with a reserve ; for if many non-fundamentalls are also to bee beleeved without a reserve , it would have been service to the church , they had beaten out that arminian principle a little more , and subdivided non-fundamentalls in such as are to bee beleeved with a reserve , and a demurre , and such as are to be beleeved without a reserve , then in some non-fundamen●●ll● men are not to be tolerated , and what be these . . the distinction should so beare a leg and halt , for then some fundamentalls we beleeve without a reserve , and no toleration is to bee yeelded in them , but the sword and the club must presse faith in these , and we are to beleeve but some non-fundamentalls with a reserve , not all , and indulgence is due to men in some non-fundamentalls , not in others ; but we know our brethrens frequent arguing , independencie is not fundamentalls , ergo , our brethren should tolerate it , but we deny this consequence ; yea erastianisme in its highest sphere is not fundamentall , and yet high erastianisme is persecution both of independency and presbytery , doth it follow then , it must be tolerated ? . if the magistrate cannot punish the error in non-fundamentals , because , in regard of our dulnesse , they are not clear in the word , so in regard of our dulnesse many fundamentals in the gospel are as uncleare , and that all acknowledge that aarons idolatry , and davils adultery and murther , are sins unjustifiable , and which the magistrate by the light of nature is not to tolerate , and that he is not a christian who denyes that theeves and idolaters who shall not enter into heaven , and that god is to be loved above all , is a great untruth , many anabaptists there were in bullingers time , who taught none but whores and harlots should enter into the kingdome of god , which is cousen germains to this . againe , what is theft , is as disputable , as in the case of usury , and whether the saints the just and spirituall inheritors of the earth , all things are yours ( saith paul ) doe rob and steale , if they invade the possessions , houses , monies , and lands of unregenerate and carnall man ? whether he bee a murtherer who sacrificeth his childe to god in imitation of abraham ? are as uncleare , in regard of our naturall blindnesse , as most of the non-fundamentalls : and anabaptists that are godly and learned , have as much to say from scripture for denying of fundamentals , as in many in non-fundamentals can plead , why their tenets are true , and though erroneous , yet not punishable ; and they should upon the same ground have a toleration for murtherers , robbers , theeves , that flow from meere conscience , and religious grounds , and though these practises bee destructive to peace , yet with what conscience can the magistrate punish them as destructive to peace , when it is not clearely determined in the word of god that they are destructive to true humaine peace ? for if they be lawfull , and some of them acts of worship , as the actors are in conscience perswaded they are , they cannot be destructive to peace , yea to punish them is tyranny over the conscience , say libertines . now i propose these queries , and desire libertines to answer them . . should not the magistrate punish no thefts , no robbery , no murther , but such as are thefts , robberies , and murthers , undeniably and uncontroversally to the conscience of all that are members of that society , whether anabaptists or others ? . should the magistrate abstaine from punishing of that which is false worship , for example sacrificing of a childe to god , for feare he domineere over the conscience of a christian , and so transgresse his sphere , and sit down in gods roome ( which is really murther , and shedding of innocent blood ) though it be not so to the man-slayer , but acceptable service to god , and yet punish the same false worship , as murther and destructive to peace , whereas to the actors consience , whom he desires to favour , it is not murther and not destructive to peace , does he not really and by his office as great violence , and exerciseth no lesse a domineering power over the mans conscience , then if hee should punish this as false worship ? . will , or can notionall or mentall consideration licence the magistrate to domineere over mens consciences , and exercise soule-tyranny and invade the throne of god over the conscience , when it is upon the same reasons and arguments of scripture ; as probable that the taking away of a fathers head for sacrificing his son to god , is not destructive to peace , nor any breach of the sixt commandement , as it is probable it is true and acceptable , and worship to god , and though it were false worship , it is as probable that to punish it , is a sacrilegious invading of gods place , as it is an act of justice in the magistrate ? . if the magistrate must beleeve , as the libertine , doth , doth , and teacheth him , what he will , if it were king and parliament , and all the judges in britain , if they be of the faith of libertines , what conscience have they to take away the ●ead of a father , who sacrificeth his onely childe to god , upon meere religious principles , what warrant have they before the tribunall of god to cut off his head , as a peace-breaker , rather then to spare his life as a sacrificer , and a devout , and zealous ( whether it be blinde zeal or no , the libertine magistrate hath nothing to do to judge ) worshipper of god ? whether or no hath the magistrate who in that case , killeth a● innocent man ( according to his own libertine-conscience ) greater respect to false peace in a humane society , then to true piety and innocent walking with god , which forbids him to punish any thing that is onely to the subject , he punisheth , a meere devout worshipping of god. . upon the same ground , should not the masse , and all the broad worship on earth be tolerated , since it hath farre lesse connexion with disturbance of peace , then the anabaptists children-killing worship of god ? . if the formall is ratio , the onely formall reason and cause why the magistrate is to use corporall coersion against none now under the new testament , but is to suffer every man to worship god , as he best pleaseth , because the worship of the new testament is more spirituall , the law-giver christ , a meeker mediator , then moses , and there is no warrant now to hinder any man , or lay bands and coactive violence upon christs free subjects , with force of sword , to restraine them in one worship , more then another , what reason an anabaptists offering his son a sacrifice to god , should be restrained in his sacrificing , more then in other acts of worship ? is not the man persecuted for his conscience ? is not this a carnall , and no new testament way of restraining him , when he is restrained by the sword ▪ is not the onely word of god , and no weapons that are carnall , the way of rescuing men from all false worship , and the onely way . . nor can the bloodinesse and cruelty of that worship be a sufficient ground , why the magistrate may restraine the conscience of the devout worshipper ; for who ought to sit as lord judge above the conscience of this father , and sentence the worship as destructive to peace , or the worshipper as a bloody man ? his conscience is under the new testament , and the lord his onely judge . but by the light of nature , that the father kill the sonne to god , 〈◊〉 murther , and ●ruel●y . but i answer , if it be gratefull worship to god , it is no more cruelty then to burne a beast to god , and you are to suppose that a godly anabaptist , hath warrant from god for that worship , as well for burning of beasts , and offering yearely thousands of bullocks and sheep to god , in memory of christ once already sacrificed for sinners , and that there is in it neither cruelty to beasts , nor hurt to the common-wealth , that the magistrate can restraine , for though there be no reason at all for the worship , ex natura rei , if we consider the worship it selfe , yet there is such reason to tolerate the worship , so as if the magistrate restraine , he tyranni●eth over the conscience , and a bloody conscience is a conscience as uncapable of violence , and as immediately in the new testament , subject to god onely , not to the sword , as a good conscience , then if the sword can straine no conscience as conscience ; how can it squeeze a conscience wading in bloody son-butchery more then any other conscience ? . if the magistrates punishing of any for his conscience be a violent compelling of him to sin , to worship or to forbeare worship against his conscience , how will libertines cleare magistracy in the old testament , from being intrinsecally a sinfull ordinance , for the magistrate in the old testament in stoning to death the seducing prophet , and the blasphemer must compell him to sin against his conscience , and to professe jehovah , not baal was the true god , whereas the seducer believed in his conscience the contrary , since to compell men to sin is intrinsecally sinfull , let libertines answer the query , if god ever in old or new testament could command sin , or if there was ever such a thing heard that a magistrate might by his office command men to sin , or then punish them ? . let libertines answer if arminians extend not liberty of prophesying as farre as mens lusts can carry them , in these words , but to suffer every man ( say they ) to 〈◊〉 publickly in religion every thing i● perilous . why ? for either that which 〈◊〉 asserteth is true , or false , if it be true , why admit we is not ? why doe we imprison the author thereof ? this injury reflects upon god the author of truth : if it be false , the truth shall easily overcome ●●ar , of it self it shall melt like was before the sunne , if ye offer violence 〈◊〉 it , yee strip religion of its glory , and furnish oyle to err●●● . whether is not reason as strong to refute errours fundamentall as non-fundamentall ? whether if ye offer violence to truth in fundamentalls , as well as in non-fundamentalls , yee strippe religion and truth of its glory , and furnish oyle to errour ? they goe on and tell us , wee need not ever bee in learning these that are clearely determined in the word ; for they are cleare , open , and of undoubled truths in the scripture , in other points ( not fundamentall ) a christian is ever a disciple and a searcher , not that he doth ever doubt and hesitate , but because , though for the present he neither doubt , nor hath cause of doubting , yet can he not be sure of these points , with such a certitude , which is free of all danger of errour , and therefore he is often to examine these according to the rule that cannot erre , and so it is enough before god that he may be said ever to learne , and to come to the knowledge of the truth , as far as frailty in this life can permit . answ . . there is then no stability of faith , but in two or three points , in which all papists , latherans , anti●●ni●ar●ans , arrians , socinians , libertines , familists , sabellians , nestorians , macedonians , arminians , antinomians , seekers , f●thystasts , anabaptists , &c. agree , and make one true church , beleeving what is necessary for salvation , and holding the foundation christ , and we have no divine faith of the miracles that christ wrought , that the old world perished with waters , which god speakes as clearly in the word , as he doth fundamentalls . but libertines should distinguish the formall reason of beleeving truths , which breedeth an obligation , and the necessity of beleeving , for the one onely formall reason of beleeving , both fundam●ntalls and non-fundamentalls , is thus , saith the lord. for we are as much obliged to beleeve non-fundamentalls that are cleare , as that there were eight persons saved in the arke , and the old world drowned with waters , s●dome burnt with fire , as to beleeve fundamentalls , that there is no name whereby men may be saved , but by the 〈◊〉 of jesus , for the authority of god speaking in his word and his command doth equally oblige to both , but there is no such necessity so absolute in beleeving non-fundamentalls , as in beleeving these , without the knowledge whereof , wee cannot be saved ; but it never followeth that errours in non-fundamentalls published and taught to the ruine of the soules of many , they having such a strong connexion and influence on the knowledge of fundamentalls , are to bee tolerated since our sinning here doth as equally and strongly strike against the authority and expresse command of god ( at least in most things of that kinde ) as in points fundamentall , and therefore the magistrate who is to looketo the honour of god as a christian , and peace of societies in all , is as much obliged to punish , clearly opened , non-fundamentall as fundamentall false doctrines . chap. xi . of the obliging power of conscience . libertines bewilder themselves , and the reader , both touching an erroneous conscience , and the obligation thereof , mr. williams saith , such a person ( what ever his doctrine be , true or false ) suffereth persecution for conscience ; as daniel was cast into the lions den , and many thousand christians , and the apostles were persecuted , because they durst not cease to prea●● and practise what they beleeved was by god commanded . but this is a foule mistake , daniel suffered not for conscience simply , because he practised what he beleeved to be truth , but because he practised what he truely congr●enter dei voluntati revelatae , congruously and agreeably to the revealed will of god , he beleeved , and the like is to be said of the apostles , not the conveniency , and commensurablenesse of their practise , and their conscience simply , but their beleeving , ●all modo , such a way made their sufferings to bee sufferings for righteousnesse sake ; for then must we say that paul persecuted with the tongue , the corinthians for their conscience , cor. . . awake to righteousnesse and sin not , i speake● it to your shame , for some have not the knowledge of god. those that denyed the resurrection ; through errour of conscience , said the dead shall not rise againe , for paul proves by strong arguments that the dead shall rise , and so takes away the errour of their conscience , why then puts he shame and reproach on them , and names them fooles , and void of the knowledge of god ? and such as beleeved in vaine ? it was not in their power to correct the errors of their conscience , and if they maintained , what they beleeved in conscience , was true ( as by pauls demonstrating the truth to their conscience is evident ) they were persecuted for righteousnesse , if out of meere innocent and faultlesse ignorance , they denyed the resurrection , paul should deale more gently with them , then upbraid them as fooles and epi●ures who said , let us eat , for to morrow , we shall dye , if they did all beleeve the resurrection , and yet professed the contrary , there was no need to take paines as he doth to prove it . saul killed the gibeonites out of zeale to the children of israel : it is like the blinde ignorant zeale he had , thinking the covenant that joshua made with them , did not oblige the posterity , was the cause of his murthering of them , yet he suffered not in his sons that were hanged for that blinde zeale , as righteous , and following the rule of his conscience in that . but touching an erring conscience , the question is not whether an erroneous conscience doth so tye , that we must do nothing on the contrary , nor is the question whether the nearest actually obliging rule , be conscience ; the arminians tell us , though the word of god , of it selfe , and by it selfe , have power to oblige , yet it actually obligeth no man , except it be understood , and so is beleeved to bee understood , after we use all possible diligence and prudence , for no man is obliged to follow the true sense of the word against his conscience , though it be erroneous ; but we thinke the word of god is both the farrest and nearest , and the onely obliging rule , and that the dytement of the conscience doth neither binde potentially nor actually , but is a meere 〈◊〉 , a messenger and an officiall relater of the will and mind to god , to us , and all the obliging power is from the word , 〈◊〉 the messenger of a king and judge , is not the obliging 〈◊〉 that tyes the subject , or the heraulds promulgation of the law , is no obliging rule , for promulgation of heraulds , is common both to just and to unjust lawes , and certainly unjust lawes from a just prince lay no band on the conscience or on the man , farre lesse can the promulgation as the promulgation lay any bands on the conscience , the word of a messenger and herauld is at the best but a condition , or the approximation of the obliging power to us , but all the obliging power is from the king and the judge . it is most false then , that these libertines say , that the word doth not actually oblige , except it be understood , for the understanding , information , and indycement of conscience , doth not adde any actuall obligation to the word that it had not before , it onely is a reporter , to carry both the word and the actuall obligation to the man ; the herauld promulgating the law , addes no obligation actuall or potentiall to the law that it had not before , onely it makes an union , in distance , and neare application and conjunction between the actually obliging law , and the understanding knowledge of the person , or subject , who is obliged to keep the law , though it bee true the fire cannot actually burne , but as timber is cast to it , yet the fire hath from its owne nature both potentiall and actuall burning , not from the act of casting the timber in the fire ; nor is this a concludent reason , no man is obliged follow how the true sense of the word against his conscience , though erroneous , ergo , the erroneous conscience doth oblige , or ergo , actuall obligation to obedience is not from the word , but from the conscience ; no more then this is a good consequence , no man is obliged to obey the law in it selfe , iust contrary to the promulgation of an erring and mistaking herauld , ergo , the mistaking heraulds promulgation giveth to the law actuall obligation over the subject , for it onely followeth , 〈◊〉 we are not to doe contrary to the actuall indic●ment of an erroneous conscience , but not obliged to follow the erroneous conscience , nor are we obliged to follow what our conscience saith is true and good , because , or upon this formall reason and ground , that the conscience saith so , more then we are to beleeve and practise , what the church or the conscience of others : the church , the learned and godly say , for we make not the word of the church the formal object of our faith , but ( thus saith the lord onely ) because the church is but a company of men , and so our faith should depend upon men , even though holy and speaking ingenuously what their conscience dictates as true , which is absurd , ergo , by the same reason , what one mans conscience , our owne , or others say , is not the formall object of our faith and practises , for so also our faith should depend on man , not on god. and we say the conscience at its best , is but regula regulata not , regula regulans , nor ought it to have the throne of god , for god is only regula regulans . if it were a rule , it is to bee ruled by god , and his word , yea , as we are to try all things and not beleeve with a blind faith what others say , or their conscience proposeth to themselves and us , as truth , for then we make a pope of the consciences of men , under the notion of teachers and church , so we are not to be ruled without trying , and absolutly by our owne conscience , but to try its dictates by the word of god , otherwise wee make a pope , and a god of our owne conscience . some say , as a right informed conscience obliegeth to doe what it dictates , so an erroneous conscience obliegeth to do according to its prescript . durandus and others saith , ●gat non obligat , it bindeth that yee cannot doe against it , which some call negative obligation , but non obligat , it obliegeth not as a divine rule , which is positive obligation . tannerus saith , a conscience that invincibly erreth , both bindeth , that we cannot doe against it , and obliegeth that we should not follow it . which hath truth in the matter of fact , a judge invincibly ignorant of an accused mans innocency , when two or three witnesses doe sweare hee is guilty , doth lawfully condemne the innocent man , having used all 〈◊〉 diligence to finde out the truth , and not being 〈◊〉 to find it , but this is rather error or ignorance of the fact , than an erronious conscience , for hee proceeds according to the law , with a well-informed conscience , following what the law saith , by the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every thing be established . the erroneous conscience so long as it remaineth , by the law of nature , layeth on an obligation on a man , not to doe against it , rom. . . to 〈…〉 the esteemeth any thing to be uncleane , to him it is uncleane , vers . . he that doubteth is damned , if he eat , because he eateth not of faith , for whatsoever is not of faith is sinne . so ambrose , our opinion layeth a law upon us . gammacheus saith it is a vain distinction of binding and oblieging , inter ligationem & obligationem . and that we are oblieged to follow an erroneous consciencesse long as it continueth erroneous , because here ( saith hee ) 〈◊〉 dispute not concerning that which is good , but that which is commanded , but if the conscience dictate that something is to be commanded and to bee done under paine of sinne , and yet we doe i● not , we resist conscience , and so we sin , because the obligation is no mere 〈◊〉 good onely , but rather to that which is commanded . the jesuite m●lderus saith the same ; contientiam erroneam & ligare & oblig●re , because an object materially considered is such , an object by 〈◊〉 , but it is an object per se , kindly when it is proposed by practicall ●●●son , for what is not of faith is sinne , gal. . . i testifie to 〈◊〉 one that is circumcised , that hee is debter to doe the whole law . answ . there can be no reason , why conscience , because conscience , or because wicked , more obliegeth ; then why will , because wicked will should obliege , since in every wicked conscience actually drawing men to ill , of either heresie or practise , there is something of wicked will , and though there were nothing of will , or of the affections in an erroneous conscience , yet since conscience as a knowing faculty is under the law of god , an erroneous conscience must bee a transgressing conscience , and it is a contradiction , that a faculty sinning should obliege to obedience to the law of god , in the same consideration , because it sinneth . but these schoole-●●●ties doe not obliege us , wee shall bee unwilling in any tearmes to say that god , or , which is all one , the law of nature , layeth on us an obligation to that which is sinfull , or 〈◊〉 if any thinke he is oblieged to be circumcised , sure he must thinke himselfe oblieged to eate the passeover also , and to keepe the whole ceremoniall law , but that the law of nature obliegeth him either so to thinke , and erroneously beleeve and practise , the whole ceremoniall law is another thing . it is true , a doubting conscience , that thinks hee is oblieged by the law to abstaine from eating swines flesh , is either oblieged to eate swines flesh , or not to eate , for to eate , or not eate , are opposed by way of contradiction , but there is no apparent contradiction but admiteth of some qualification , and modification , set the contradiction in an evangelicall sence , as you must , and then it shall be , there be none in the visible church , but he must either eate in faith , or not eate in faith , he must either bee circumcised in faith , and in a certaine perswasion that circumcision is acceptable to god , or hee must not bee circumcised in faith , &c. for both the law and gospell obliege to the action and to all the manner , way , and requisite circumstances of the action , to wit ; that it be done in faith , sincerely for god , in a due manner , &c. now so wee say ; hee is neither to eate simply , nor not to eate simply , but either to eate in faith , or to abstaine from eating in faith , and without an erring and doubting conscience : and we are not to do upon a supposition , that the conscience stand erroneous , nor hath the erroneous conscience any warrant at all , nor commission from the sovereigne lord of conscience , to command you to beleeve you must be circumcised , or upon the supposall of that faith to obliege you to be circumcised , more then any earthly judge hath a warrant from god to command murther or robery ; nor is it a law of nature , or of god that you must do absolutely and without trying what an erroneous conscience indites you to do , under paine of sin , nor is it a sin to resist an eroneous conscience by not doing , or suspending the action , more then it is a sin not to obey an earthly judge , when he commandeth beside , and contrary to the law of the supreame law-giver . no wonder they make a pope of conscience , who make the conscience of the pope the supream court that obliegeth all men on earth . the reason of this errour is , papists ( and libertines joyn with them in this ) dreame hat as god doth command unerringly , & indeclinably , so hte hath communicated to popes and heraulds , and to every lawful 〈◊〉 under him , and so to the conscience , that they may ●●errandly , and indeclinably also command , but they should remember when power of commanding comes out of god , the fountain of authority , now it looseth its absolute undeclinablenesse , when it is in conscience , or in any creature , and it is onely conditionall and limited in the streames , whereas it was absolute and soveraigne in the fountaine . in the case of an erroneous conscience standing in its vigorous thing , the question is , both , what is commanded , and what is good , for these two are not contrary , but agree well : for the lords command to adam ( eate not of this fruit ) is to adam the cause why the not eating is good , and the cause of the obligation to what is commanded also , but onely the obligation is ( ad modum facti , non ad factum ) to the ●●●ner of doing , that if we doe , or abstaine , we do it 〈…〉 , in faith , and perswasion without any jarring between the conscience and the object , but there is no obligation to the fact . on the regular way of doing , i am never oblieged to obey god with an erring conscience , or contrary to the inditement of an erring conscience . the material object being sin , and forbidden by the law of god , is an object by accident , even when it is proposed by practicall reason , if that reason be erroneous , and misinformed , as it is in this case , the proposing of practicall reason , doth not make that to bee good or commanded , which of it selfe was neither good nor commanded , but sinfull , it may make it good in the manner of doing , and obliege in the manner of doing , but that is not our question , but whether the practicall judgement and conscience remaining erroneous , doth both ligare , bind and obliege to the fact that is sinfull , that is denied . and though hee that is circumcised upon the supposall of a blind , erring , and jewish conscience , thinking the law of shaddowes obliegeth when the body christ is come , he is a debter to doe the whole law , and to eate the passeover , to sacrifice at jerusalem , to keepe the new-moones , &c. but how is he debter ? he is this way debter , what warrant he hath to be circumcised , he hath the same warrant to keepe the passeover , to sacrifice , that is , he hath as good reason for to doe all , or is as well obliged upon his false principles he goes on , to keep all the law of ceremonies as to be circumcised , or doe a part onely , but he is erroneously and sinfully made , by himselfe , a debter to the whole law , but god made him a debter neither to the one , nor to the other , and in gods court , though if he be circumcised , he must be circumcised this way , that is , his conscience must dictate that gods law still in force commands him so to doe , but this is but a necessity of supposition that falleth upon the manner of the doing , not upon the fact , for no law of god warranteth him to be circumcised , and no law of god makes him debter to doe all the rest of the law of ceremonies , he is obliged neither to be circumcised erroneously , nor to abstaine from circumcision erroneously , but to lay aside his erroneous conscience , and to abstaine from circumcision according to the enditement of a well informed conscience . so we easily answer that ignorant objection of phantasticall sectaries , in needlesse pamphlets and queries , smelling of non-sense and selfe-conceit , speaking they know not what : if the sword be used against errours to suppresse them , then must the magistrate command and compell men of tender consciences to sinne , and to doe against the light of their conscience ; for what is not of faith , is sinne . and the spirit himselfe waites and violates not the liberty of the reasonable soule , by superseding the faculties thereof , but approves every truth to the understanding , and moves the will without violence , with a rationall force : shall man be more zealous for god , then god is for himselfe ? god himselfe doth not force men , but call them to repentance . — if the word ( calling ) be considered , whether will it warrant any further meanes then arguments , perswasions , and intreaties ( make them as forceable us you can ) if you hold the feare of punishment over men , it must be the feare of divine punishment , &c. answ . for . wee no where teach that the sword is a meanes of converting , but the just vengeance that is inflicted by the minister of god upon false teachers , as upon other evill doers , so it is not destinated by god for spiritual gaining and reducing of hereticks that may repent , but for judiciall expiation of wrongs done to the flock and christian society . . this poore argument will conclude against all 〈◊〉 of magistrates , against murtherers , bloody traitors , for the lawes of the minister of god , the king forbids the english jesuit to stab his prince , and compells him to 〈◊〉 from king-killing , and if this jesuit abstaine from killing his sovereigne lord , and abstain not in faith , but against the light of his jesuiticall and bloody conscience , which dictates to him , that he is a protestant prince and a heretick , and he is obliged in conscience for the advancement of the catholicke cause to stabbe him , doth the supreme magistrate compell this jesuit to sin ? and doth hee force the jesuits conscience ? for to doe in faith hath place in duties of the second table , as well as in the first , and men out of conscience and in faith , and moved by the holy ghosts gracious actings are to obey all lawfull commands of the magistrate , as to pay tribute , to abstain from murther , treason , adultery , robbing and stealing , if they be subjects of tender consciences , and why then should the magistrate compell and force men to these duties which are to be done in faith , and in a spirituall manner ? for sure the spirit forces them not to doe these in faith , so the command of the magistrate moveth every christian to practise , and act of obedience to mens lawes for conscience sake , and the spirit moves the whole powers of the soul , both the understanding and the will without violence , with a rationall force , and why should the magistrate then be more zealous for god , then god is for himselfe ? and all this may be said against all lawes in the old testament , why should the magistrate compell men against their faith and conscience not to beleeve , not to practise any such seducing wayes , as to say , come let us goe serve other gods , should moses be more zealous for god , then god is for himselfe ? but the truth is , the magistrate as the magistrate doth not meddle with the conscience , not the manner of obedience to law , whether they be obeyed in faith , or against the light of conscience , that is nothing to him , he commands but the externall actions , preach no heresie , no familisme , soci●●nisme under the paine of corporall punishment ; if pastors obey this charge hypocritically , not in faith , it is their sin , not the magistrates , he neither commands thus , preach no heresie , in faith and perswasion , nor yet , in no faith , in no perswasion . and augustine tells us the donatists objected the same , god compelleth none , but hath given men freewill to obey him , contr . petil . l. . c. . epist , . ad vincention , contr. gaudenti●● . l. . c. contr. cresc . l. . c. . which i often re-minde the reader of , and the donatists also said this compulsion makes hypocrites , when they are compelled to goe to heare the word , augustine answers , although some that are compelled to beare remain hypocrites and counterfeit , yet for these , such as are sincere , should not have been left ungathered in . and for that of gods calling to repentance , he is but an ignorant senselesse man who wrote that booke . the spirit waits , ( saith hee ) and violates not liberty . if the meaning bee , the lord is long-suffering and patient , and lets men goe on in their sins , and in his owne time effectually calleth them , this is a senselesse sense , for god waits not on one out of his longanimity and forbearance , lest he should force freewill , for the freewill is ever alike impotent , rebellious and refractory , till god subdue it , if the meaning be ( as another sense it cannot have ) the spirit waites and violates not liberty , that is , the spirit waites untill freewill be in a good blood and a congruous disposition to obey , and then the spirit , for feare of forcing of it , if he should come on it undexterously to worke it against the haire ; catcheth the opportunity when he sees it is not on a straine of rebellion , and in a distemper , and then he drawes the freewill without force ; the man ( i judge ) is innocent and uncapable of this schoolheresie of late jesuits , who devise a pelagian congruous calling : and this were nothing to the purpose , and should neither have head nor feet to the matter in hand , for the spirit who can carry freewill , though most rebelliously distempered his way , is not afraid of freewills contradictorious opposing , but can in every moment subdue freewill without forcing , he never waites on , for such a matter , except there bee a time when freewill is to hard a party for the spirit to yoake withall ; or when nature or some preparatory grace makes it easier for the spirit to conquiesse , consent at one time more then another . . gods not forcing of freewill is no rule to the magistrate not to awe men to abstaine from perverting of soules for fear of the sword , for by the same reason , because gods spirit moves the saints to be subject to every ordinance of 〈◊〉 , judge , or good law , for the lords sake , and for conscience , for hee must obey this , rom. . . pet. . . and the spirit compells not in these more then in the others ; so this argument , god must worke faith , give repentance , and make a willing people , ergo , the christian magistrate cannot with his authority doe it , is all granted . this is but a very rotten rush , a straw , entbysiasts so argue , god teacheth sufficiently , ergo , the scriptu●● and ministery of men are not requisite , the discipline of the godly magistrate cannot ascend so high as to have influence on the conscience and beget faith no more then the preaching of the word by the ministers of the gospel without the 〈◊〉 , ergo , the godly magistrate cannot with the sword keepe the externall man in outward obedience to gospel-ordinances , it in no sort can can be a good consequence , nor is it good divinity to say with pelagians and arminians , that the calling of god extends no further then to arguments , perswasions , intreaties and threatnings , for the calling of god extendeth further then to so much as man can doe , in calling of sinners to repentance , but men can act upon the minde , will , and reasonable soule , by arguments , perswasions , intreaties and threatnings , for all that is done by the ministery of men . but in effectuall calling ( of which we here speake ) it is certaine , the lord infuseth a new heart , a new spirit , 〈◊〉 efficaciously to the son , which is a further and higher 〈◊〉 of omnipotencies , calling and drawing , then all the morall perswasion by arguments , intreaties , and threatnings , performable by men or angels ; so this man is either an ignorant or a grosse arminian . now from all this , it is easie to expound that character which the holy ghost putteth upon the hereticke , tit. . . he is judged or condemned of himselfe , that is , the truth is so clearely opened to him , or he may , if he did not wincke , and shut his eyes , clearely see and beleeve the truth , if he did not knowingly , prudently , and willingly resist the truth , and therefore is condemned by his owne heart . but minus celsus saith , the words carry a farre other sense , to wit , that by sinning he is the authour of his 〈◊〉 condemnation , because in chusing true religion , be thinkes he both made a right choice , when he hath chosen a false religion , being deceived by his owne judgement , he falleth into damnation , which , miserable man , he hath created to himselfe , and in which he chuseth to persist , and therefore is to be esehewed . so it is said , the jews judged themselves unworthy of eternall life , but knowingly they judged not so of themselves , but they did so behave themselves as if they made themselves unworthy of eternall life . so i beleeve the hereticke is called selfe-condemned , because he doth those things that renders himselfe worthy of damnation . so castalio , or he is selfe-condemned , that is , he is damned , though there were none to condemne him but himselfe . so erasmus . answ . he is selfe-condemned , who may be condemned by his owne conscience , though for the present the conscience be burnt with a hot iron , and the man will not permit it to summon , accuse , condemne , no lesse then hee who is actually condemned of his conscience , for it is a laudable act , and a naturall vertue of the conscience to give sentence against a heresie when it ought so to doe , as it is a vice of the conscience to be dumbe at heresies ; but if he love the truth , though he cannot actually condemne the heresie , hee is not selfe-condemned . the hereticke ( saith celsus ) is an innocent man , and is not such a man as sins against light , nor maliciously , nor with an ill conscience , nor is his end gaine , pleasure , nor an ambitious lusting after a name , hee seeth none of these are attaineable , yea , it is his desire of life eternall , and his ●eale that setteth him on worke , and rather or he dishonour god and deny the knowne truth , and sin against his conscience , he had rather chuse torment , and dye a martyr , and drinke that direfull and bitter cup of death , which was so terrible to jesus christ , that it caused him to fall to the earth , sweat blood and water . so he , fol. , , . which if it be true , an hereticke is rather an innocent angell , then a guilty man , condemned of his owne conscience . yet minus c●lsus saith here , he behaveth himselfe as one worthy of damnation , and damned , though none but himselfe condemne him , joh. . . for if our heart condemne us , god is greater then our heart and knoweth all things . it is like then , an innocent man is condemned , and his company to be eschewed as a pestilent wretched man. yet the arminians say , though discipline is to be exercised on hereticks condemned by themselves , yet are they bewitched with a great prejudice — so as heresie is a vice of nature rather then of free-will . and in another place , onely nature , by no fault of heretickes , void of grace , begetteth these errours , and not freewill despising the help of grace ; they are seduced not of their owne accord , but by necessity of nature , for they seduce not because they will seduce , but because they cannot seduce . it needs not an answer , that they say , the jews judged themselves unworthy of life eternall , not knowingly , for knowingly they did it , act. . v. . they spake against the convincing and enlightning gospel , contradicting and blaspheming . so ● . . , . for which sin against the holy ghost , paid turned from them , and preacheth the gospel to the gentiles ; yea minus celsus will have the jewes to erre innocently in that malicious fact . answ . to forbid marriage and meats , can hardly be arraigned as fundamentall errours , nor the authours such as must deny the scriptures to be the word of god , yet they are such as depart from the faith , teach doctrines of devils , speke lyes in hypocrisie , and have their conscience burnt with an hot iron ; and if hereticks be as innocent as their sin , if it be but a fault of nature , as blindnesse from the wombe , or deafnesse , not of will , but of nature , why are they to be rebuked , accused , condemned of their owne conscience ? but they little know the heart of man , who finde not malice , prejudice , pride , desire of glory , to hold up a faction , often gaine and hunger for court to lodge with errours of the minde ; and whereas libertines say we promote truth with blood , we retort it thus , they promote heresie with the sword , and deny thousands of atheists , bloody men their way , because the●● purse , the parliament , the sword , the army is on their side . chap. xii . arguments against pretended toleration . hence i proceed to argue thus against this pretended liberty . . every duty of the christian magistrate , hath warrant in the old or new testament , which exactly teacheth the duty of ruler and subject , father and children , master and servant , &c. argument . but toleration of many false wayes , and the permitting of men to speake lyes in the name of the lord , and to seduce soules , hath no warrant in the old or new testament ▪ ergo , such a toleration is no duty of the magistrate ; the major is cleare from the perfection of the word of god ; the assumption is proved by a negative argument from the scripture , it is no where written expresly , or by consequence , to be the duty of the ruler , therefore it is not his duty to tolerate or permit . if it be replyed , because it is not holden forth in scripture to be the rulers duty to punish men for their conscience , therefore it must be the rulers duty to tolerate and permit them . it is answered , the word of god is as perfect in teaching for what sinnes the ruler should not punish , as for what he should punish , the son for the fathers transgressi●● , should not be punished by the magistrate , for that i● injustice in men , and he should not punish , except the 〈◊〉 be confessed or proved by the mouth of two witnesses . the 〈◊〉 that was forc●d in the field , and had none to helpe her , 〈◊〉 free of punishment also ; and so is the man that 〈◊〉 hi● brother and hated him ●ot before . againe , if those that seduce soules be most hurtfull and pernicious to christian societies , and those that teach the way of god truely to be usefull , the ruler must not be newtrall and indifferent , as touching the use of his power toward either ; but as he is for the praise of well-doing by vertue of his office , so must he be an executer of wrath on evill-doers , especially such as hurt christian societies , whose peace and quiet living in all godlinesse and honesty he is to procure . argument ii. that which inferreth necessarily many religions , many faiths , many sundry gospels in one christian society , is not of god. but the toleration of all wayes , and many religions is such ; ergo , this toleration is not of god : the proposition is evident , because there is but one old way , jer. . . one lord , one faith , one baptisme , eph. . . one faith once delivered to the saints , jud. . one truth to be bought , prov. . . one christ , which the apostles , heard , saw , and handled with their hands , from the beginning , joh. , . one name of jesus , not any other under heaven by which we may be saved , act. . . not jehovah and malcom , zeph. . . not jehovah and baal , king. . . not the true god , and the gods of the heathen , the samaritan mixture , king. . . ( ) and this one way we are to keepe with one heart , ezek. . . with one judgement , one minde , one tongue , one shoulder , act. . . cor. . . phil. . cor. . . zeph. . . zach. . . being rooted and established in the faith , col. . . not tossed to and fro , nor carried about with every wind of doctrine , eph. . . without wavering , heb. . . for the assumption : that god hath appointed in his revealed will , that every man should serve god as best pleaseth him , and as it seemes good in his owne erronious conscience , and that every man should pervert the soule of his brother , and the magistrate should put no man to shame for it , is as good as if there were no magistrate , and that it is against his calling as a magistrate , is clear , for the holy ghost saith , that , jud. . . micah had a house of gods , and made an ephod , and a teraphim , and consecrated one of his sonnes , who became his priest , was from this , v. . in those dayes there was no king in israel , but every man did that which was right in his owne eyes ; ergo , the magistrate by his office is to take care that micah and others serve not god as it seemes good to their owne erroneous conscience , and so , that another follow not another religion , and a third , another third religion , as seems good in every mans owne eyes . . if the magistrate restraine not the high places , for which he is rebuked , as some sacrifice at jerusalem at gods command ; so the people for the most part sacrifice in the high place through the princes fault , and then there bee two religions , and upon the same sinfull indulgence they may multiply groves , and alters according to the number of their cities : and as there were false prophets among the people then , so now , who with faire words make merchandise of mens soules , who by the revealed will of god must bee tolerated to doe the like , and others the like , till religions bee multiplyed : and this wee must say , except it be affirmed that under the new testament : the corruption of our nature is not so great , through neglect of magistracy to doe what seemes good in our owne eyes under the new testament , and to runne a whoring from god to other high places as they did , and if so , neither should there be a magistracy under the new testament to restraine us in wayes of conversation touching the second table , to wit , to hedge men in from robbing and stealing , from incestuous marriages and polygamie , upon meere conscience ; for if the saints be the onely ●ust owners of the earth , as many now hold , it is no more punishable by the ruler , as robbery , that a saint take the oxe , asse , monies . possessions of his neighbour , who is a carnall and wicked man , then that he take of his owne goods for his use , when he is naked and starving , which by the law of nature hee ought to use before hee famish● , and incestuous . ma●riages are to some consciences as unpunishable now , as when cain and abel married their owne sisters ; and if conscience ought not to bee forced in one thing , neither can violence bee offered to it in any thing that unfainedly pretends to conscience . argument iii. that indulgence and forbearance of all from the ruler , which layes an undeniable ground for scepticisme , fluctuation , and doubting in matters of religion , is not of god. but such is toleration of sundry religions ; ergo , the major is thus proved : true religion suggesteth an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a perfect understanding , luke . . knowledge and perswasion of faith , rom. . . . faith by many infallible tokens , act. . . full perswasion , rom. . . tim. . . tim. . , . all riches of the full assurance of understanding , col. . . the assumption i thus prove ; because the libertines say , that speciall and principall ground of no indulgence to false prophets under the old testament , was because the prophets were infallible , god himself who onely knows the heart , designed the false teacher , and the blasphemer by immediate resolution from his owne oracle , and made it out of question whether that was heresie or no , and whether presumptuously against the light of conscience the man held , professed and taught others so to doe , and beleeve as he did : so arminian libertines : so minus celsus : so vaticanus : so jo. goodwin , and the english libertines . but now since the prophets and apostles fell asleepe , no magistrate , no synod is infallible , all men are apt to deceive , and be deceived , for whether in fundamentals or non-fundamentalls : none now can challenge propheticall or apostolicke infallibility , the synod condemning socinians , familists , as heretickes are not infallible , but may as rather be the heretickes , as those whom they condemne , for they have not monopolized the holy spirit to them-themselves , so say they , wee have no immediate oracle to determine heresie : and what we beleeve in all , except some few fundamentalls , wee are to beleeve with a reserve , leaving roome to a new contrary light say the independents ; yea but it holdeth in beleeving fundamentalls , as well as non-fundamentalls , for in neither have wee propheticall infallibility and immediate oracles , and scripture shewes wee have as great darknesse , blindnesse of minde , naturall fluctuation to beleeve nothing in supernaturall fundamentalls in the gospell , as in non-fundamentalls , but with trepidation and doubting of minde , wee no more having monopolized the spirit to us then sectaries , nor sectaries more then we , in the one then in the other , in fundamentalls , then in non-fundamentalls : what ever wee beleeve , upon this principle of reciprocall toleration , both wee and sectaries are to beleeve with a speciall reserve to change that faith with the next new moone , when contrary new light shall appeare , so are wee taught to have faith of nothing , but to bee tossed to and fro , and to bee carried about with every wind of doctrine , with wavering , not rooted , nor established , nor fully perswaded of any thing , contrary to ephes . . . hebrewes . . coloss . . . . roman . . ● . timoth. . . and this destroyes faith , and makes it a meere conjecture , and an unsettled opinion , with a fluctuation of minde , to waite the tyde of a new contrary light , and send this old faith away , and admit of another ; yet so as to lodge that new one with a moveable reserve , and so must we live and dye doubting , and meere nullifidians . argument iv. that which destroyeth all our hope , comfort of the scriptures , zeale , constancy , and rejoycing in suffering for the truth , for christ and the gospel is not to be held , nor is it from god. but toleration of sundry religions is such , ergo , the proposition is cleare for the places of scriptures placing these christian graces in beleevers , as heb. . , . pet. . . thess . . . rom. . . . rom. . . rom. . , , . eph. . . phil. . , . heb. . , . matth. . , . now toleration layes this ground as a principle , men are not to be troubled for their conscience , because they beleeve , hold , publish , and reach what they do , right or wrong , according to their conscience , be it erroneous , or not erroneous ; and their zeale , hope , perswasion , comfort , carrieth them to undergoe the reproaches of heretickes , seducers , false prophets , imprisonment , torture , death , burning quicke , rather then they would sinne against knowne truth , and offend against a conscience though erroneous , yet because the sufferers are not infallible , and it may be a lye , they beleeve , publish , and suffer for , their hope may be grounded on a lye , their comfort not bottomed on the scripture , and so false hope and comfort , their rejoycing in sufferings , and undergoing torture , and violent death , but fleeting and counterfeit joy , their zeale without knowledge , a bastard zeale , having nothing to doe with the word , and gospel-promises ; but in the bottome , as contrary to them as light is to darknesse : for what any saint or professour beleeves and publishes , hee is to beleeve and publish , and dye in it , and for it , with a faith that the contrary may bee a truth of god , and so to bee tolerated and borne with : now the hope of the hypocri●e is therefore compared to the spiders web , to a broken tree , to a blasted olive tree , his joy to a night vision , a dreame , the cracking of thornes under a pot , because both hope and joy , and all his comfort is grounded on an erroneous conscience , a lye , an imagination , not on the word of god. now so is the joy , comfort , and hope of all religions which libertines contend must be tolerated , they confesse they may bee truths , they may bee lyes , yet if they bee punished for them , they suffer persecution for righteousnesse , for christ , for truth . argument v. that which taketh away all wayes of removing heresies under the new testament , both by the sword , and refuting of gaine-sayers by the word , all rebuking , all avoyding of them , is not of god. but such is this pretended toleration , ergo , it is not of god , the major is evident of it selfe . the assumption i thus prove : therefore the magistrate should not punish heretickes , because hee cannot doe it in faith , for he not being infallible , hee cannot certainely and undeniably know that hee punisheth the man for that which is a heresie , or for that which is a truth , and so while he is plucking up tares , hee may bee plucking up wheat , and so he cannot in faith punish him , say they . but this reason strongly evinceth , according to the way of libertines , the gaine-saying hereticke is not to bee refuted , nor to bee sharpely rebuked , that he may bee sound in the faith : nor to bee avoided as selfe-condemned , contrary to titus . , , . titus . . romans . . timoth. . , . timoth. . , . matth. . , , , . cor. . , , , , &c. because what ever my christian professour doth , as well as the christian magistrate , he must doe it in faith , rom. . . otherwise 〈◊〉 sinneth . and it is no lesse sinne ( i speake not of 〈◊〉 - degree● ) to refute , judge , and condemne , rebuke and avoid a brother as a selfe-condemned hereticke , when it is not evident to the conscience of pastours , synods , or any private christians , who may refute , admonish , and rebuke heretickes by the word of god , titus . , , , titus . . rom. . . that hee is an hereticke , for they may bee reproaching and speaking against such as are sound in the faith , and wheat ; not heretickes and tares , for ought they know , who have not monopoli●ed the holy spirit to themselves onely , more then , these whom they refute , admonish , rebuke and avoid as heretickes , and so they cannot in faith more 〈◊〉 the holy ghosts charge , and rebuke heretickes , then the magistrate can in faith draw the sword against them . argument vi. the father commands the children now in the state of sinne , to learn and heare the judgements and testimonies of god , gen. . . exod. . . psal : . , , . joel . . , . and that in order to the rod and bodily punishment , prov. . . prov. . . with-hold not correction from the child , for if thou beatest him with the rod , he shall not die . . thou shalt beat him with the rod , and shalt deliver his soule from hell . damnable heresies bring swift destruction , pet. . . the fourth command is given to the father of the house , exod. . in order to son , servant , and stranger , to cause them to keep the sabbath ; which nehemiah as a father and a ruler practised by the sword , nehem. . , , , . and the like morrally , layeth bands on all magistrates and ministers , according to the power of the rod , civill or ecclesiasticall committed to them , eli a father and a judge dispised god , sam. . . in not correcting his sons , for abusing of their priestly power : his sonnes might have pretented conscience that they could not live upon the ordinary allowance for the priest , and that the law of nature might beare them out in their practises ; yea , every man is to take care that he and his house serve the lord , nor did joshua as a magistrate only , chap. . . but as a master of a house so speake , then must the prince , the parliament , the magistrates say the like , and take care according to their places as fathers of the common-wealth to doe the same . hence we thus argue , what ever coercive power to command , threaten , promise , punish , restraine , reward , god hath given to parents , masters of families , teachers , tutors , officers in war , kings and princes , is the good gift of god and a tallent to be imployed for the good of soules , and in order to observe the duty of the first table , every one in order to their station . because kings are to bring their glory and honour to the new jerusalem : it s either kingly honour and power , which is essentially coactive , or then , it is nothing but that holy rich men that bring their glory to it , rev. . . and kings shall minister to the church . it is either royall service as kings , or then no more favour is bestowed on the church , then if private men ministered to the church , esa . . ver . . and if it be not for the beautifying of the house of god at jerusalem , in obeying the law of god , and insticting death , or banishment on the refusers of obedience , as the persian monarch did , ezr. . . , , . it is not glory brought to jerusalem . but such a coercive power hath the lord given , as a talent and gift to parents , masters , teachers , tutors , officers , kings and princes : as these places evince . and thus , that which the master of a christian family may doe , that the father of the common-wealth the king in his place may doe . but the master of a family may and ought to deny , an act of humanity , or hospitality to strangers that are false teachers , who bring another gospell , john . whom he must neither lodge , nor bid god speed : because he brings another gospel ; which he otherwise owes by the law of nature to a pagan , and a man not knowne to him , heb. . , . job . . gen. . , , , . chap , , , , . the proposition is cleare upon the ground that david as an head of an house , will cut off all lyers , and wicked persons out of his house , as a godly king he will also cut off early from the church ( called the city of god ) 〈◊〉 wicked doers , psal . . for if every christian family of new england must refuse lodging to a false teacher , must not the governour and judges , who have power to command and regulate acts of hospitality , joyn their civil authority to forbid any master of an house , to lodg such a 〈◊〉 hereticke ? and what is this but the highest degree of banishment ? and if the christian magistrate who may in law dispose of innes and lodging of strangers , for the publique good , should command any to receive such a man 〈◊〉 house , should he not offer violence to the conscience of the master of the house ? and yet if the man were sound in the faith , and should onely seeme a false teacher to the master of the house , the adversaries would say , the godly ruler may command an act of the law of nature , to lodge a 〈◊〉 , who onely upon mistake , and an erronious 〈◊〉 is suspected to be an hereticke , for they say the ruler may 〈◊〉 his power in duties of the second table . it appeares that the laws of both kingdoms ordained english or scotish seminary priests , or jesuits that come to either kingdome to seduce men to the romish faith , to be hanged , to have better ground in the word of god , jo. . and which forbids any under paine of death to lodge such then the twelfth proposall for peace , that licenceth jesuits and preists and so commandeth protestants to lodge such , if they disturbe not the peace of the kingdome , though they leade millions of soules to hell . for upon this proposal , suppose al england were truly godly , the king might command the just contrary to what the apostle john exhorts , if he follow the consciences of the new army . chap. xiii . magistracy and perpetuall lawes in the old testament warrant the civill coercing of false prophets . argument vii . what the patriarkes , and godly princes of israel and judah were obliged to doe , as rulers and princes , and not as such rulers who were priviledged types of christ , that all kings and rulers under the new testament are obliged to doe . for quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what agreeth to kings as such , and to rulers as such , agreeth to all kings , and to all rulers . but patriarkes and godly princes , as rulers commanded the putting away of strange gods , as jacob , gen. . , , . did , and the worship of the true god : as abraham , gen. . he being a prince within himselfe . so repenting manasses , chron. . , . removed strange gods , and new a●ers . asa removed idolatry and queen-mother for her idolatry , chron. . renewed the covenant , and commanded that who soever should not seeke the lord god of israel , should be put to death whether small or great , whether man or women : 〈◊〉 is commanded , because he tooke away the high 〈◊〉 , and the groves , as other godly kings are blemished for not removing of them , chro. . . neverthelesse there are good things found in thee , saith the prophet , jehu . hezekiah removed the high places , the images , groves , brazen serpent , restored the passeover , worship , priests . and josiah destroyed the high places , groves , carved , and molten images , idols , and altars of baal●m , the horses dedicated to the sunne , houses of the sodomites , topheth , baals priests , chro. . now that they did this as princes , not as priviledged types of christ , and that god requires this at the hands of king charles , when god shall establish him in his throne , to take order with arrians , socinians , antitrinitarians , familists , 〈◊〉 , anabaptists , seekers , &c. is evident . . their assertion , that all the judges and kings , were types of christ , even jeroboam , jehu , ahab , and the vilest of them is said , not proved . . that typicalnesse invested all these kings with a power over the conscience , . to convert men to god with a sword of steele . . to punish idolaters , whereas they had none , if they had wanted this typicalnesse , the contrary being evident in cyrus , artaxerxes , darius . . that this typicalnesse made jeroboam , ahab , and such who sold themselves to wickednesse , infallible to judge who were true prophets , and reward them , and who were seducers , to put them to death , the contrary of which is cleare in ahab , and men of his stamp . . wee require any ground from the word that they were types of christ . . that the typicalnesse of the land made the head , the king , a type of christ , and not all the inhabitants types also . . that the typicalnesse of the land made the king head of the church , and yet he might not offer incense , but hee must be strucken with leprosie as king vzzah was . . that church and state was one . . that the king was supreme church-judge above the priests that handle the law , and over both judicatures of church and state , ( . ) that they were all prophets , and by an extraordinary typicall power removed the high places , killed baals priests ; all which phancies taken for granted lyeth between them and this , that princes now have nothing to doe with christ and religion more then indians . . that they did this as princes of common equity by the law of nature ; i prove . darius who was undeniably no type of christ to his great commendation makes a law , ezra . . i have made a decree that whosoever shall alter this word , let timber be pulled from his house , and being set up , let him bee hanged thereon , and let his house bee made a dunghill for this ; and this is commended by the holy ghost , v. . they prospered through the prophesying of haggai , &c. according to the commandement of the god of israel , and according to the commandement of cyrus and darius , and artaxerxes king of persia . and ezra chap. . artaxerxes saith v. . whosoever will not doe the law of thy god , and the law of the king ( injoyning obedience thereunto ) let judgement be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or unto banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or to imprisonment . and artaxerxes was no type of christ , yet ezra addeth in the next verse , . blessed be the lord god of our fathers , which hath put such a thing as this in the heart of the king , to beautifie the house of the lord at jerusalem . if it stand good that patrons of liberty say , he was not to blesse god for this , he had cause to mourne , that the heathen king being no type of christ , should intermeddle with that which belonged not to him , to straine the tender consciences of men , and to force religion upon them with the sword ; for chap. . v. , . this is set downe as a blessed decree which brought on an assembly , for putting away strange wives . the like is clear in the decree of darius , daniel . for worshipping the god of daniel , and of the king of niniveb , for a generall fast , jon. . and nebuchandnezar , dan. . , . . typicalnesse sometime may be ground of doing what is extraordinary , as sampson killed himselfe and his enemies , which he could not have done in ordinary , but he was in it a type of christ , who slew more in his death , ( and that most voluntary , joh. . . ) then in his life . and solomon as a type married the daughter of the king of aegypt , typifying christ , who joyned himselfe in marriage with the church of the gentiles ▪ but it is no good consequence , the kings of judah being types did punish idolaters , therefore 〈◊〉 ●●nishing of idolaters was extraordinary . for 〈…〉 the ammonites and philistimes , and so did joshua the 〈◊〉 as types of christ , who subdueth all our spirituall 〈◊〉 , and makes the gentiles his willing subjects , but it followeth not that therefore christian kings may not 〈◊〉 joshua and david in making warre with nations that come against them in battell , as these did against the people of israel , josh . . , . ps . . , , , , . for sometime the ground of typicall actions is morall , as josephs brethren bowed to him by vertue of the fifth commandement , because joseph was a prince second to the king , yet both ●ee and they were types , for these that despised and sold christ bowed to him ; sometimes the ground of typicall actions is an extraordinary impulsion , and then they binde not to imitation , as a man may not kill himselfe , that he may kill his enemies , to follow sampson ; in that extraordinary motion of the spirit , in which he was a type of christ . but if there be no more but naked typicalnesse in the kings of israel and judah in punishing idolaters , except they did it by extraordinary impulsion , which cannot be proved , it concludes nothing against us . argument viii . wee argue from examples of seducers , who have been punished with bodily death or otherwise : as at the command of moses the prince , three thousand were slaine , exod. . , , . for worshipping the golden calfe , that god might that day bestow a blessing on them , . and moses might make atonement for them , vers . . numb . . moses commands all the heads of the people to be hanged before the 〈◊〉 , that the fierce anger of the lord may be turned away from israel , because they were joyned to baal-peor , and the sacrifice of the gods of moah , , , , . phineas in his zeale turned away the 〈◊〉 of god in that he thrust through zimri in the act of uncleannesse with corby a medianitish woman . and 〈…〉 slay the priests of baal , with the sword . and paul 〈◊〉 elimas the sorcerer with blindnesse , because he laboured to pervert sergius pa●lus the deputy , from the faith , act. . , , . the sonne of the israelitish woman , whose father was an egyptian , while he did strive with a man of israell and so in passion and malice toward the man , as would appeare , cursed god , was stoned to death , and a law was made on it against the blasphemer , levit. . , , , , . which is , ver . , . whosoever curseth his god shall beare his sin , . and whosoever blasphemeth the name of the lord hee shall surely be put to death ; and all the congregation shall certainly stone him , as well the stranger as hee that is borne in the land , when her blasphemeth the name of the lord shall be put to death : there be two things here to me that proveth this was no judiciall temporary law binding israel onely . his god , holdeth forth , that nature abhorreth , and the sum of the first command written in the heart is , hee that curseth his maker whom he is to blesse , love , and serve with all his heart , should dye . this law obliegeth the stranger , and any heathen to be put to death , if hee should blaspheme god , saith it is the law of nature , and obliegeth us under the new testament as being the first and highest sin that nature crieth shame , and woe upon ; and wee are to conceive it was a lawfull warre attempted by the ten tribes to goe against the tribe of ruben , gad and the halfe of manassah , josh . . , . &c. to . because they set up a new alter to worship ( as their brethren conceived ) which if true , certainly was a cleare apostacy from the god of israel . that joshua destroyed the canaanites for their idolatry , josh . . ; . chap. , &c. i confesse will not warrant us to make warre , and destroy with the sword , all the indians , and idolaters on earth , and to compell them to worship the true god in the mediator christ , without preaching first the gospell to them ▪ nor can it warrant us to kil every ignorant blinded papist with the sword , nor can wee deny , but what elias and paul did against false teachers , was by extraordinary impulsion , because the ordinary magistrate would not , as 〈◊〉 and jezebell , and could not , through ignorance of the gospell punish perverters of the truth : but sure these examples prove corporal , and sometimes capitall , punishment ought by the magistrate to be inflicted on all blasphemers , on all ringleaders of idolatry and false worship , as exod. . they forced aaron to make the calfe , and levit. . they were heads , rulers , and cheife offenders that were hanged , the manner of the punishment may bee exemplary and determined of god , for the example of after ages , whither by death , for simple heresie in one seduced , which was no ring-leader , ( which i finde hath not been done by god , in the old or new testament ) but seducers and ring-leaders by the law , such as cease not to subvert the faith of others should dye , yet these examples clearly hold forth so much of the law of nature as bodily punishment , according to the measure of the offence is due : otherwise if christ have freed false teachers from all punishment external , or that may be thought to worke any otherwise then by meer spirituall instructing in all meeknesse , then by the liberty purchased by christ they are freed from shame and reproach , for shame and the publicknesse of suffering is an external punishment , and is another meanes , besides meek instructing , as is clear from judg. . . and from souls calling jonathan the sonne of a rebellious woman , in which he handled him shamefully , sam. . . isa . . . luk. . . yea , by this way of libertines , false teachers are not to bee rebuked , nor avoyded , that they may be ashamed , paul may not upbraid the cretians , and call them idle bellies , and lyars , that they may be sound in the faith : for that must be contrary to the liberty , wherewith christ hath made them free . and a bodily punishment may be extraordinary in regard of the manner of doing , when done by miracle , and fire brought from heaven , and in regard of the persons that inflict it , as that which phineas did being priest , and elias being a prophet , and paul being an apostle , when the magistrate will not do his part ; and yet the punishment in the 〈◊〉 and substance , may be according to an ordinary law of god that bindes us : paul strikes elimas with blindnesse ; it is no rule for ministers to do the like to false teachers ; but it is the rule for him that beares the sword , to inflict bodily punishment upon perverters of the gospell , if this 〈◊〉 not , joshua's warres with the canaanits that were according to a morall and perpetuall rule of justice , and bindes us , josh . . , . should not binde us to lawfull defensive warres in the like case , contrary to the law of nature , josh . . , . because joshua in these warres did many things extraordinarily , and killed all the cattle and women with childe , which we are not to doe . the answer of many is , these were extraordinary , ergo , they binde not us . is no answer , they were extraordinary in the manner , not in the substance and nature of the punishment , in which the course of justice warrants us , as a rule flowing from the law of nature , though the manner and extraordinary accidents are before us , as no oblieging law , upon the same ground many argue ; the apostles , who were immediately inspired , give out synodicall decrees , acts . therefore elders that are not infallible , may not give decrees according to the word of truth . yea ( say we ) neither should this be a good consequence , the prophets , and immediately inspired apostles preached and prophesied the will of god as the lord taught them . ergo , minister , now , though not immediately inspired may not preach the mind of god according to the proportion of faith , for we thinke the consequence is most strong , according to the word , wee are to follow the prophets and apostles in that , in which they followed the law of nature , which is , that every ambassador relate faithfully his princes will , though some have ordinary gifts , some extraordinary and rare gifts in relating the same embassage : so it is no good consequence , some by extraordinary warrant did punish evill doers , ergo , the ordinary magistrate hath not therefore power to punish such evill doers . argument ix . the expresse law of god , and of nature written in the heart of al , proveth that the seducer should die , deut. . if a prophet or a dreamer arise , and say , let us goe after other gods , he shall be put to death . that is no temporary law oblieging the jewes only , the text sayth . let us goe ( saith the dreamer ) after other gods is 〈◊〉 them , this ●in is against the first command , and that im●aculate principle of nature , graven in the heart of man , that there is one onely true god , and he onely to be served . it is against the love of god , ver . . the lord tryeth you whether you love the lord your god : if he be god our love is due to him . it is against the fear of god , v. . ye shall fear him : if he be god , he is omnipotent , infinitely great and dreadfull , therefore by the light of nature to be feared . and . cleaved to as the onely happinesse of men . adde to these , that it is a morall transgression , if magistracy , and lawfull revenging of violence and unjustice by the minister of god , and government against highest soule-oppression , be a naturall remedy , not a temporary positive salve ( as undoubtedly it is ) then sure he that seduces so , should dye . . he speakes aversion and turning away from god , and that is hell and the extremity of miseries . . he thrusts thee out of the way , v. . a word of violence . then . he is evill and destructive to the society of men , which the magistrate by his office should defend , v. . so shalt thou put away the evill from the midst of thee . . he seeks to thrust thee from the lord thy god , that brought thee out of the land of aegypt . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to remove from god , as from an unclean and cursed thing , and it expresseth excommunication , and then to thrust men away from the lord in covenant with us , that can save from the greatest of miseries , must be the highest of injuries , and if the lord proved a publicke avenger against the highest wrongs that can be done in a society ( as he doth ) then certainly against this . . it is a wrong that god would have all israel to feare , a wickednesse that strikes at the root of society . . and all israel shall heare and feare , and doe no more any such wickednesse as this among you . and v. . such are children of beliel , they make all things and persons cursed they come among , and bring on the land , the fierce anger of the lord , v. . the int●●●secall worke and end of the magistrate is to avenge evill doing , and so to remove the fierce anger of the lord from a land , that the people may feare and not do any such wickednesse , as is cleare , deut. . . . exod. . . . deut. . . rom. . , , . pet. . . now the false prophet is such as brings on all these evills , and therefore if magistrates stand under the new testament , and if there be such a sin now as thrusting away people from the lord who hath , in christ , delivered us from a greater bondage then that of aegypt , this must be a perpetuall law. deut. . . if there ●e found any among you within any of thy gates which the lord thy god giveth thee , man or woman , that hath wrought wickednesse in the sight of the lord in transgressing his covenant , and hath gone and served other gods and worshipped them , either the sunne or the moone , or any of the hoast of heaven , which i have not commanded . . and it be told thee , and thou hast heard of it , and the thing certaine that such abomination is wrought in israel . . then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman which hath committed that wicked thing unto thy gates , even that man and that woman , and shall stone them with stones till they dye . . at the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses , shall he that is worthy of death bee put to death . hence not simple idolaters , nor all the nations round about , nor all the papists , that are educated in idolatry , by this law shall be put to death , but such as are within the gates of israel . . in covenant with god. . it is wrought in israel , and so apostates to judaisme , to strange gods are to be punished ; so we teach not that nations are to be converted by the sword , or that the idolatry of indians , the blasphemy of jews , is a sufficient ground to make warre against them , and cut them off with the sword . . apostates turning to false gods , were by a written law judged . there is no consulting of an oracle by urim and th●●mim here , as libertines say , but just as the murtherer is to be judged under the new testament , if it be told thee , the people or the judge , and thou hast ●eard of it . v. . vnder two witnesses , hee shall be convinced . it were a vaine thing to goe and seek witnesses , and follow reports and hear-sayes , if they had an immediate oracle to informe the judge and say , here the idolatry , there the idolater , binde him and lead him away to death , ( as some patrons of liberty plead ) we read not any such conjecture . he is not persecuted for opinions , because be cannot c●me up to that measure of light in judgement that other saints attain unto , but he is put to death for an externall act of idolatry , that is seen , heard , proved by two witnesses . and for externall abomination wrought in israel , v. , . the lord never puts a judge to prove opinions , that remain within the walls of the heart , and are things of the minde , by witnesses , nor is the end of putting to death to force , beat , or cudgell him to the sound faith , with the sword , but to be avenged on hi● sin , to remove evill , to save the israel of god from infection . it is not single idolatry that is his death , but his idolatry in seducing others by word or example , he work● such abomination in israel , v. . in the church of god , which tendeth to seduce others . deut. . . i will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee , that is , christ act. . . so the holy ghost in the apostles expounds it . and he adds ver . ● . but the prophet that shall presume ( he must mean in the time of the messiah , when the true prophet shall rise ) to speak a word in my name , which i have not commanded him to speak , or that shall speak in the name of other gods , even that prophet shall die . it is a prophecy of a new testament law , because many were to come in christs name , and say , loe i am christ , as many now doe , so zach. . , , , . levit. . . whosoever of the children of israel , or of the strangers that sojourn in israel , that giveth any of his seed to molech , 〈◊〉 shall surely be put to death . this law , if it did lye upon the strangers and heathen , then ; it was not judiciall , but it must lye on us gentiles , now ; who can free us from it ? object . but he was put to death not for false worship , but for ●●rthering of his son. answ . no law of god or men , can judge that murther , which is done without hatred to the party murthered , as is clear deut. . , , . chap. . . chap. . . but here , the dearer their sons were to them , they the rather offe●ed them to their god. ● . the text gives no reason why such should be put to death for murther , but for false worship , against the first table , ver. . he defiles my sanctuary , be prophanes my holy name , ver . . the magistrate must kill such a seducer , for he commits whoredom with molech . chap. xiv . cavils against coercive judiciall laws , for punishing false prophets in the old testament removed . the first common answer made to all these , is : that these were judiciall and old testament laws , when god dealt more strict●y with the jews , and hedged them in with severer laws , penalties , and a greater measure of bondage , then now under the meek and gentle reign of the messiah . answ . more severity , and a stricter tutory to be over the church in non-age , and under pedagogie , we grant , gal. . , , . but that is in regard of ceremoniall hedges , laws , and dayes , but it is to begge the question , to say that morall transgressions are destructive , if not more , to christian societies now as then , such as blasphemy , idolatry , heresie , that were punished with the sword then , must now be more loosed from all bodily punishment in any kind , then murther , sorcery , adultery , perjury . for the comparison of a milder government under jesus , then under moses , cannot stand in fencing some moral transgressions utterly from the sword , and in leaving others lesse weighty , under as bloody punishments as ever they were . when no reason from the word of truth , can be given , why the murtherer should dye by the sword , now and then , but blasphemy , and offering the sons to molech , as the indians doe now , was then by the law of nature , a dis-worship , or a false worship , punishable in jews and heathen , but now it is not in any punishable by the sword at all . . the sword did not force the conscience of any then , more than now , nor could it cudgell an idolater , or a blasphemer , into the sound faith then , more then now , and weapons of the prophets in the old testament , as well as the apostles in the new , were not carnall but spirituall , and mighty through god. prophets , as prophets , no more used the sword against mens consciences of old , than christ , his apostles , and ministers doe now , mat. . , . and as christ saith now , preach the gospel , but kill none , use neither staffe nor sword , nor miraculous power to destroy hereticks , or burn samaria , so he said to his prophets , speake my word to israel and judah and the nations , to ninive and others , but kill none , and use the sword against none of the rebellious who will not heare , that they may bee converted . yet hee commanded the magistrate to use the sword against the seduceing prophet , nor can the libertines shew us of a ceremoniall death inflicted for the transgression of a morall law , which transgression is now made free from all bodily punishment , indeed the man that refused to raise up seed to his brother was put to shame by the law , and we are freed from both the law , and the penalty thereof , and the man that gathered sticks on the sabbath was put to death by an answer from gods mouth , but the breach of the holy sabbath instituted before the fall is no ceremoniall transgression , nor doe we thinke that every violation of the sabbath was punished by death , but that the magistrate , masters and fathers , are not to punish with bodily coercive power the transgressours of the fourth command , is most false . for what the magistrate commands the subject , the master the servant , the father the sons , and which they have warrant from the morall law to command in these relations , that they command in order to the sword and rodde , if their commandements find no other welcome but rebellion , for the power of magistrate , and master , yea , and of the father now in the state of sin is essentially coercive ; they may compell their inferiours by strong hand , either to doe or suffer the will of god , which is sufficient to prove our poynt . though it be true , some morall transgressions moses punished with death , as sabbath-breaking , it followeth not therefore the godly prince may now punish it with death , but it followes not therefore , such transgressors are made free , through christ of all bodily punishment , as libertines inferre , for though the temporarines of the punishment be only in the measure of punishment , yet not in the punishment it selfe . we desire a reason why the gentlenesse of the sonne of gods government should free the blasphemer , and the soul-murtherer , from sadder , yea from all bodily punishment , and not free him that destroyes the body also . or how all the sons of levi saw by an immediate oracle that all that had worshipped the golden calfe , exod. . had done it with such high presumption , as made that idolatry worthy of death , which otherwise was not worthy of death ; and it is cleare the charge was without exception , v. . slay every man his brother , and every man his companion , and every man his neighbour . and the like i say of all that joyned to baal-peor . and when asa compelled so many thousands both of judah and israel to sweare a covenant , and that they should be put to death , that would not seeke the lord , chro. . whether asa and all the under-judges ( for asa in his owne person could not doe it ) had a deputed dominion over the consciences to force them , and whether he consulted the oracle to know who sought not the lord , and refused the covenant out of meere weaknesse , as not being able to see how asa , who was no prophet , and a prince for eminency of conversing with god farre inferior to moses , was not a little wide , in pretended zeale , to urge the law with an oath , and no lesse then death on the refusers to seeke god and the breakers of the covenant . nor could asa see and know infallibly how out of heart-obstinacy , or how out of sinlesse , and faultlesse innocency refused the covenant . and asa could not compell men to take the covenant , and professe seeking of the lord against their judgements and consciences , which the thirteenth proposall of the army does condemne , and yet asa was free of compelling men to hypocrasy . when therefore peter strucke annanias and saphira with death ; and , paul , elimas with blindnesse ; and delivered himeneus and alexander to sathan ; and when the apostles sharply rebuked and upbraided the cretians , those who are called dogs , evill-workers , enemies to the crosse of christ , such as serve their belly , not the lord jesus ; it is as pertinent and necessary a query whether or no peter compelled others who saw annanias punished to death , paul constrained others who saw the terrible wrath of god on hymeneus , to dissemble , and to doe , and professe against the judgement of an erronious conscience and lay all their goods downe at the apostles feete against their conscience , which yet beleeved , they were against the law of nature defrauding their owne children , and to professe the faith , and not inword blaspheme and say , there is no resurrection , no christ , no heaven after this life , as familists now say , for feare that paul deliver them to sathan . and wee know professours are much affraid to goe for dogges and belly-gods in the account of such eminent godly men as the apostle paul and others , and therefore will cover themselves and professe the contrary : if therefore censures and rebukes from the eminently godly , doe create varnished hypocrits , and it is not the sin of godly rebukers , and if punishments may and doth constraine many to say , and doe , and unsay , and counterdoe in matters of religion , in judgeing according to conscience in highest judicatures , and contrary to that same conscience the next day , this which is objected against coercive power , in matters of conscience , that it creates hypocrites and straines men to doe against their judgement and so to sinne , is all accidentall to the nature of coercive and bodily restraining power . and because many keep their hands from blood and violence , and that out of deep hypocrisie since they lodge in their breast , bloody hearts , onely for feare of the princes sword , yet both the prince and his sword is innocent of that hypocrisie , then as coercive power is falsly charged with any kindly begetting of hypocrites in the duties of the second table , so is it as harmelesse in matters of religion , respecting the first table , nor did the lord in the old testament create hypocrits by straining mens consciences by bloody lawes . a third answer stands thus , those lawes were made of old against false teachers , because the jewes had the opportunity of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himself . — and except the iudge had been desperately wicked , and despised the glorious ordinance of the oracle of god , they could not doe unjustice , god being always at hand to declare unto them , what kinde of blasphemer ▪ and what kind of idolater it was that he intended by his law should be put to death . men are now fallible and the learnedest cannot tell wha●●blasphemy or idolatry it was , which was by god sentenced to death under the law , so jo. goodwin . answ . if there was such immediate consultation to make short worke of blood to the judge , we desire law or instance of the priest or prophets consulting with the mouth of god touching the prophet whether true or false , but none can be produced , sometimes the prophets by miracles cleared their calling : another way we f●nd not . this is against appeales that are cleare , deut. . in all matters of controversie , when in the highest court where a mans head , whether hee be a false prophet , or any other , was at the stake , the judges , v. . were to judge according to the sentence of the law , and they proceed upon witnesse , deut. . . god should by this declare law , proof and witnesses uselesse , for the lord from heaven condemnes the man. jeremiah , and all the prophets that were killed and stoned , never sought the benefit of the law , nor said , give us a ●ury from heaven , an oracle for to take away our head , the prophets never accuse kings or judges in persecuting the prophets , that they consulted not the oracle , ere they rejected the prophet . this had been a well settled law to try all prophets , who speake from god , and who speake the visions of their owne head , all should have passed the grand ▪ jury of an immediate oracle from heaven , and by this there should not have been a false prophet in all judea but the judge might have discovered him , but god never gives this character of an idolater , blasphemer , or a false prophet : the oracle of vrim hath blacked him as an impostor . but divers other characters the lord gave . as . if hee speake not according to the law. . if the good he foretel , never comes to passe . . if hee ●eale the wound with smooth words . . if he strengthen the armes of the wicked . when as yet god had made no standing law , he was consulted , and god gave sentence against the man that had broken the sabbath ▪ and that blasphemed ▪ but their consulting with god presupposeth by the law of nature , the magistrate should punish such , therefore the pu●●ing him in ward was a punishment , only they would have the mind of god touching the manner of his punishment , but sure this was not the ordinary and standing law . there were others as difficill and intricate controversie● , of murther , adultery ; treason , as deut. . . between blood and blood , plea , and plea , stroake , and stroake , by this reason anabaptists have a better ground to say there should be no christian magistrate under the new testament , nor any use of the sword nor sheding of blood at all , because the je●es under the old testament had the opportunity of immediate consulting with the mouth of god himselfe , we are fallible men , and the learnedest can no more tell what murther , what incest or adultery was condemned in the law of god ( for heart-hatred , which is seen to god only , doth essentially constitute murther punishable by the judge , deut. , , , . chap. . . chap. . ● . ) then they can define what blasphemy or idolatry it was which was by god sentenced to death under the law , for we are to be as wary to take a mans life and blood now under the new testament , for murther , and treason , and sorcery as they were under the old in stoning blasphemers : and we are no more infallible in the one , then they were in the other . yea , it strongly concludes , that wars are as unlawfull under the new testament , as under the old , for under the old , they consulted the mouth of god before they went to battle , we have no immediate oracles to consult , yea , when we are ingaged wee are neither to pursue the enemy nor to forbear , because we have not the immediatly inspired prophets , micah , jeremiah as they had , wee may not make a covenant with neighbouring kingdomes , the scotish army have no oracle to shew them whither they shall remove out of england , for that will be the safety of the cause of all the godly presbyterians who are now persecuted for the covenant of god , and a carying on of reformation and the standing of the covenant and treaties betweene the kingdomes , or shall they not remove till peace and truth be established in both kingdomes because if they remove , the english army may say , they undertooke the war not for religion , but to make a conqueste in england for the liberty of the subject , and sweare the covenant in a sense . the army under sir thomas fairfax may say , that they did fight all this time for liberty of conscience , against both prelaticall and presbyteriall thraldome of the consciences of the free born english , and therefore though the parliament command them to di●band , they must have liberty of conscience up , the covenant downe , and have a perpetuall standing army , &c. for in war , peace , pursuing or forbearing , in marching from one kingdome to another , in making treaties and covenants with other nations , they were to consult with the oracle and immediatly inspired prophets , the opportunity wherof we have not , and so we have no be●ter warrant for all these , for peace and war , then for killing of blasphemers , who are known to god onely by this reason , and that is no warrant at all . . this is to say , there was faith , certainty , and infallibility , clearnesse , light , and more knowledge of god under the jewes twilight , law darknesse of ceremonies , then we have , and now since oracles ceased , sceptismes , conjectures , doubtings , blinde , and loose uncertainties is all ou● faith , contrary to that the scripture saith , the jewes for all their oracles were in the darke , and now day springs from on h●gh and visi●s us , and gives light to them that sits in darknesse , luke . . , , . and now the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the lord as the sea is full of waters , esa . . . and we have a more sure word of prophesie , the scriptures , yea surer then the fathers voyce from heaven , which was an immediate oracle indeed , per. . , , ▪ , . and the least of the kingdome of god note , is greater then the baptist the greatest of prophets , matth. . . if this satisfie not , see esa . . , . jer. , , , , . esa . . . joel . , . act. . , , , . col. . , , . cor. . , , , , . . the argument that we cannot punish under the new testament , because the magistrates and ministers , and synods who condemne here●ies , errors , schismes , blasphemie , are not infallible , and they know not but they may plucke up wheat instead of tares , and take away the life of elect men who might ●ive and be converted , is of no weight , for then the iudge should not take the li●e of a murtherer , adulterer , the most bloody robber or paricide , ( the libertines , teach and practice the contrary ) ▪ for must the judge read in the lambs booke , whether the man be inrolled therein as an elect , before he passe sentence on him in a councell of warre , for fellony , robbery , poligamy , &c , . it is most strong against admonishing , rebuking and warning one another . i may condemne the innocent in these , because i am not infallible ; it is against preaching , beleeving , writing of books of divinity , making warre , peace , borrowing , lending , buying , selling , in all these i am oblieged to do upon certaine perswasion of faith , that what i doe is lawfull , else i sinne , rom. . . and the word of god the most sure oracle to us must be my rule . now i may no more venture on the least sinne , then a christian prince may condemne to death an idolater , and a blasphemer , who is a sound beleever , which is a greater sinne , if i be not cleare as if an immediate oracle were speaking from heaven , as libertines say , and the argument must bee thus , what we cannot do with as great infallibility of not erring , as the priest that immediately consulted the oracle , or the prophet immediately inspired , that we cannot do lawfully . but the christian prince under the new testament cannot with such infallibility punish idolaters , blasphemers , or any otherwise , ergo , the proposition is false , for certaine knowledge is sufficient , for the holy ghost would never bid us admonish , and after admonition avoid an hereticke , as tit. . . nor would our saviour bid us beware of men , of false teachers , and false christs , and avoid them , and believe them not , and try them by their workes , and search the scriptures , and examine their doctrine , nor would the lord bid us try the spirits , and try the antichrist , and eate not with idolaters as he doth , matth. . , , . joh. . . rem . , , . joh. . . cor. . . if he laid this ground of libertines , heart-obstinacy , only legible to god , and knowable ●s none but to infallible spirits , makes an hereticke and a false christ before men , yet you are to admonish and eschew him , this is as much , as if the lord should say , if any man have such an opinion and heart-thought never manifested to men or angel , that knew whether the number of the starres were oddes or equall , admonish such a man and avoid him , and bid him not god speed , neither receive him into your house . yea , so no minister of the gospell should preach to his flocke fundamentall gospell truths , because hee is not infallible , and hee may teach fundamentall lyes for truths . againe , the assumption is false , for the certainty a beleever hath , is thus farre infallible ( which is enough ) that he is perswaded of the truth of it , and may boldly and in faith seal it with his blood . nor should libertines suffer for such truths as they hold for truths , to wit , that the christian magistrate hath nothing to do with religion , nor is he warranted now to use the sword against false teachers ; nor presbytery is the way of christ , but socinianisme , familisme , antinomini●me , are the only true way , because they will not say they themselves are in beleeving , teaching or suffering for these truths infallible . but the danger is not so in beleeving truth or a false opinion for another , or for a true opinion , as in taking a mans life , when yee are not certainly perswaded by the law of god , hee ought to dye . answ . that is no matter of greater or lesse great danger . it is sinne in the pharisees in heart and word of month to condemne the lords disciples of breach of sabbath , when they are innocent , as to kill them for sabbath-breach when they are innocent , matth. . . the one is a greater sinne , the other lesse ; but if wee may not venture on a greater sinne of shedding innocent blood because of want of infallibility , neither is it lawfull to venture upon the least sinne , because of the want of that same infallibility , nor is an infallible and immediate oracle our onely rule in judgeing the blasphemer . suppose a man should wilfully professe there is no god , and raile against such as say there is a god , as our atheisticall age wanteth not a caliguala , and an anaxagoras , and the like now , if the parliament should punish such a limb of hell . the thirteenth proposall of the army will say the parliament forces this man to sinne , and to beleeve and professe a truth against his judgement and conscience ; and upon this ground , for wee know not infallibly such a man to be a damned atheist . the answer to annull all these lawes in the old testament is , this punishment was bodily , afflictive , carnall and so typicall and prefigurative of those greater and more spirituall evils under the gospell , to wit , of eternall damnation . as the land was a type of heaven , so to bee cut off , by death , out of that land was typicall . answer , had the jewes no spirituall censures then , as debarring from the passeover , the excluding of the uncircumcised , and uncleane from the congregation of the lord ? was not the cutting off of the murtherer out of that good land , as typicall as the cutting off of the blasphemer ? is there any bodily punishment , but it is carnall and afflictive ? i trow none . is punishment , and cutting off from the church by death typicall , because bodily ? then the avenging of 〈◊〉 doers under the new testament must be typicall , and is many hangings and headings of evill doers , as many types under the new testament . if the punishment was typical , because in such a way bodily , as exclusion from a typicall land . then , . how is not the killing of the murtherer typicall ? . give us a warrant for this , because we may not , at our pleasure , phancy types where the word gives no ground for them , otherwise we shall with anabaptists turne all the old testament : and whole scripture into types upon our owne imagination . . how shall violent death ●ypi●●e damnation and hel , that was existent then , and not a thing to come , and that because it was the cutting off of the blasphemer , not of the murtherer ? but say they were types , as crucifying and hanging on a tree was , deut. . . of christs crucifying gal. . . what ? shall it follow , that robbers and murtherers , 〈◊〉 as barra●●s , may not under the new testament be 〈◊〉 ? yea , and by this argument , nor may any bodily punishment be inflicted on robbers , more then false teachers may b●● killed or incurre any bodily punishment , for that were ( ●●y libertines ) to rip up the grave of moses , because undoubtedly crucifying was a typicall death , gal. . ▪ ● . 〈…〉 ●ut it is knowne there were two forts of typicall things in the old testament . . some that were meerly typicall and had no use but in divine worship , as sacrificing bullocks and lambs to god , other things were so typicall that they had both a naturall and civill use , at eating of manna when yee are hungry , drinking water in the wilderne●se , living in the holy land ; the former typicall things are utterly ceased , and it were impious and meere judaisme to recall them or bring in againe sacrificing of bullockes to god , but the latter things may well remaine in their naturall and civill use , though their typicall and religious use be abolished , as it were lawfull for jewes even now after christ is come and ascended , and hath put an end to all shadowes and types by the comming in the body , to eat manna , if they were in the wildernesse , and drinke water out of the rocky mountaines , if thirsty , and dwell in their owne land , if the lord should restore them to it , yet should they not judaize nor recall the types of moses , for these they should doe for a naturall and physicall , and for no religious use . now granting that stoning of blasphemers were typicall , and as typicall as hanging of robbers was , deut. . yet should it never follow that stoning of blasphemers were judaizing and unlawfull , because it hath a necessary civill use , even of common and naturall equity , that he that thus perverteth the right wayes of the lord , and seduceth others should dye the death . yea this may well infer that prophesying of lyes , blaspheming were typicall sinnes against a ceremoniall and temporary law , and so they are not now sinnes , yea because it is a falling from christ to observe jewish shadows , gal. . not to blaspheme , and not to prophesie lyes , must be sinne ; and if that be blasphemy , what more reason to remove the punishment of a sinne , as destructive to society , now as then , if the sinne cease not to bee sinne , but remaine yet a morall hainous transgression ? the fifth answer is , that the lawes of moses cannot reach the heretickes now under the gospel , . an hereticke denyes not god the creator , nor teacheth hee , let us goe after other gods ▪ which thou hast not knowne as the apostate prophet , deut. . ( . ) hee denyes not the word of god , therefore you may use it as a weapon against him , but yee can use no sword , but that of iron against apostates . . hereticks as sadduces were tollerated among the jews , but blasphemers and apostates were not . . scribes and pharisees held many dangerous opinions , yet neither they nor sadduces were expelled the city or hindered to be magistrates . . though the zeale of gods house eat up christ , and he attempted a reformation , yet he never charged church or state as unfaithfull for not proceeding against them to imprisonment and death . . these deut. . would perswade they speake by the inspiration of some deity , and that their sayings were oracles , hereticks doe not so , so io. goodwin , hagiom . answ . . the conclusion we hold is not hurt , all this saith an heretick that is not an apostate is not to be put to death . let it be so ; but wee hold by these places , that bodily punishment is to be inflicted on him , and yet the conscience is not strained , nor he persecuted . . hereticks pet. . denyes the lord that bought them , and make shipwracke of faith , and bring in damnable heresies , and bring on themselves swift destruction , they depart from the faith , speake doctrines of devills , lyes in hypocrisie , tim. . . are condemned of their own conscience , tit. . . lead the simple captive , resist the truth , as jannes and jambres did moses , are men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith , tim. . , , . which is a wilfull denying of the lord that bought them . libertines have bowells of charity to arch-hereticks , as if god had made a law of sinnes , if we are , we are not capable under the gospell , whereas it is knowne there are ( though we need not call all false teachers hereticks ) seducers that say there is not a god , nor a heaven , nor a hell . . how shall they prove that the seducer deut. . formally denyed god the creator ? to deny him as creator , and say the world was eternall as aristotle did , is not to deny god , for aristotle and all his , acknowledged there was a god , but that those dreamers denyed the very existence of god , any otherwise then as practicall atheists , and by consequence in their abominable doctrine they cannot prove , for they professe a religion and a god , when they say , let us goe and serve other gods , and these words , that thou knowest not , are the words of the holy ghost , not that these seduce●s so speake in so many syllables , but the god they drew men after , was an unknowne god ; for there is not a caligula in the world can be a speculative and heart-atheist , or if these words ( whom thou ●ast not knowne ) be the seducers , they are spoken to heighten the new god , and ex●●●● 〈◊〉 above jehovah , as not knowne by the blinde and ignora●● world ; yea and those that worshipped the golden calves at dan and bethel worshipped other gods , and turned away themselves and others from the true god , for deut. . . they provoked him to jealousie with strange god , with abomination● provoked they him to anger . . they sacrificed un●●●evills , not 〈◊〉 g●d , to gods whom they know not , to new gods that newly come up , w●om your fathers feared not , chron. . . and je●o●●am ordained himselfe priests for the high places , and for the devils , and for the calves which he had made , psal . . . they made a calfe in hor●● , and worshipped a molten image , yet they denyed not god the creator , except practically , deut. . . of the rocke that begat thee thou art unmindfull , and hast forgotten god that formed t●ee , psal . . . they forg●t god their saviour , which ●ad done great things in aegypt . yea , and those that worshipped these gods , denyed no otherwise god the creator then hereticks now doe , for both in profession ▪ asser● jehova● that made the heaven and the earth , exod. . they said of these calves , as jeroboam did ▪ v. . these be thy gods o israe● , that brought thee up out of the land of aegypt , king. . . and exod. . . aaron said to morrow shall be a feast to jehovah , then they denyed not in profession and in words the jehovah that made them , nor christ their saviour , then by signes and wonders brought them out of aegypt ; so a hereticke , or a popish idolater , denyes not god in profession , yet both worship strange gods , and the worke of mens hands , and the devill , not god , deut. . . chro. . . nor did jeroboam deny god in profession , for he acknowledged that the lord god , the true god could heale his dryed up arme , king . . and sent his wife to enquire of jehovah concerning his sicke childe , king. . , . and je●u who clave to jeroboams calves , king. . . and so by this same law of god ought to dye , as is clear in that he worshipped and served other gods , as deut. . . ps . . . compared with exod. . cleareth , for three thousand were slaine by the magistrates sword for this sin , exod. . , . yet these denyed jehovah not in formall and expresse profession , but by the genius and staine of their doctrine , and the same way the hereticke denyes the lord that bought them , these that worshipped iehovah and malcom zeph. . by this law should dye , the priests of malcom come under the law as well as the priests of baal , the priests of baal and the false prophets were slaine according to the law , and yet they professed jehovah as well as micaiah , king. . . and achab , who worshipped baal , professed he worshipped jehovah , and so did these who worshipped the samaritan strange gods and i●hovah both together , king. . nor is it of weight that some say from deut. . onely these are to be put to death who denyes god as knowne by the light of nature , not these that de●y the blessed trinity , or christ the mediator , or the principles of the gospel which are only known by the supernaturall light of faith ; and onely these that deny principles of divinity that are by natures teaching in the heart , for these sinne against natures law , and the alphabet of naturall theology . this hath no warrant in the word , the law condemnes these to dye who blaspheme or draw men away from the true god as revealed in the scriptures , which is a supernaturall revelation that flesh and blood taught not moses , but a propheticall and ●mmediately inspiring spirit , as the reason which god ins●uateth , exod. . . they have turned quickly aside out of the way that i commanded them . now the twilight and rude divinity of nature , revealed not this way as being supernaturall , yet for this turning aside were three thousand killed , v. , . and it is cleare , deut. . the dreamer shall surely bee put to death , not because he hath denyed the creat or that is knowne by the light of nature ; but v. . because he hath spoken to turne you away from the lord your god , which brought you out of the land of aegypt , and redeemed you out of the house of bondage to thrust thee out of the way which the lord thy god commanded thee to walke in . now this is not , i conceive , a naturall way , nor written in mans heart by nature , as this answer supposeth . but yet it s also a sinne against the law of nature , to deny the god who reveals himselfe in the mediator christ . and these that were put to death by this law were such as denied god revealed in christ , for christ saith , moses wrote of mee , and to christ all the law and the prophets bare witnesse . nor did these that worshiped idols and the false teachers , and such as offered their children to molech , who were surely by the law to be put to death , deny the word of god more then the heretick now : and jeremiah useth the weapon of the word of god against them , as moses was to use the sword against them , deut , . , , , . lev. . . as we read jer. . . and they have built the high places of tophee which is in the vally of the sonne of hinnon to ●urne their sonnes and their daughters in the fire , and he useth an argument from the word of god to convince them , which i commanded them not , neither entred it in my heart . libertines might say , why should jeremiah speake of a command of god , for though our hereticks under the gospell acknowledge the word of god , yet the false teachers and apostates that were to dye by the law , doe but mocke the word of god ▪ and therefore the lord should not use this argument , which i command not . but to mee is cleare , they were so farre from denying the word of god , as our antiscripturists doe , that for the offering of their sonnes to god , they alledged both abrahams example who was bidden offer isaak his onely sonne to god , and the scripture , for if we ( say they ) are to offer the best of the flock to god , and its little enough to so great 〈◊〉 lord , farre more are we to offer the dearest thing we have , to wi● our sonnes and daughters : god answers , what yee offer to mee must be commanded in my law , but it never entred into my heart to bid you offer your children to mee . now if these had both denyed god their creator , and his word , there had beene no other sword to be drawne against them but that of iron . how will libertines prove that the second sort of seducers that were to dye for seducing , deut. . , , . the brother , son daughter , or wife that lyes in the bosome denyed god the creator , there is no warrant from the text to say they dreamed dreames , and wrought wonders to seduce , or that they professed the inspiration of a new deity , yet they were to dye , and why not the hereticks , now by the same reason ? if they thrust people away from the lord that hath ransomed them from hell ? yea , these acknowledge the lord , and the law , and the lords priests and prophets , as some hereticks doe now , yet not standing to the sentence of the law that the priest shall ●each , but presumptuously rejecting it , were surely to be put to death , deut. . , , , . so he that speaks a word in the name of the lord ( so confesseth , and professeth both the lord and his word , as hereticks now do ) which the lord commanded him not to speak , or shal speak in the name of other gods , even that prophet shall dye . and did not jeremiah and vriah , the son of shemaiah and the prophets that were killed and s●oned by the jewes , professed god , and that the word of god came to them and that they had seen the visions of god , yet they were condemned as false prophets , but for prophesying destruction on israel , judah and jerusalem , and if the lord had not sent them , but they speake the visions of their owne head , they had been false prophets , as is cleare , jer. . , . jer. . , . and so justly condemned . are there not now under the new testament who deny the word of god , as many antiscripturists in england and doth not saltmarsh , del , beacon , randal and many familists and antinomians father their new lies upon the spirit , and the pretious anoynting that teacheth all things ? a●● not they like to those prophets , deut. ? have not some in france , in holland , in england made defection to judaisme and tur●isme , and turned apostates from christ ? and yet they deny not god the creator , nor the scriptures of the old testament , and by this answer they are free of all bodily punishment ? and does not peter contradict this answer of libertines , that say our hereticks are not as these deut. . pet. . . but there were false prophets also among the people , as there shall be false teachers among you ? and our saviour , mat. . . for there shall arise false christs and false prophets , and shall shew great signes and wonders : insomuch that ( if it were possible ) they should deceive the very elect . a vive representation of the state of england this day . the formall and what is essentiall to a false prophet is now in our seducers they thrust men away from god , and the way of gospell that the lord hath commanded us to walke in , ●nd that is enough . . from the practice of the iewes , when heretickes and seducers , and blinde guides were in the chair , and they tollerated themselves , we draw rather the contrary argument , ergo . we are not to follow , nor to suffer blinde guides now , who deny the resurrection , as familists and other , to lead souls into the ditch , no more then we are to follow them in corrupting the law , and extolling the traditions of men . chap. xv. christs not rebuking tolleration and the ●aw , deut. . vindicated . christs no when reproving church and state for not punishing sadduces and hereticks denying the resurrection is , . a poore argument to prove the lawfulnesse of tolerating them , . the sadduces were cheife rulers themselves ; act. . . and he that reproves a judge for murther , must in that same ; reprove him for tolerating murthers . he that said the guide leading , & the blind led , should fal in the ditch , he reproved the mis-government and wicked toleration of the rulers . nor read we that elias reproved achab for not killing baals priests , ergo , achab transgressed not the law , deut. . , , . deut. . , , . in tolerating false teachers ? nor doth god deut. . , , . reprove the rulers for not punishing the worshiping of the golden calf , or the making of it for worship , because aaron and the rulers under moses were guilty of it ; will it follow that the rulers and the sonnes of levi should tolerate it ? since the lord commanded the contrary . nor does the man of god reprove jeroboam for tollerating the people to worship the golden calves , or because he suffered the lowest of the people to intrude themselves in the priests office against the word and law of the lord , because the lesse sin was swallowed up in the greater , but it followes not , that jeroboam did the duty of a magistrate in suffering the people to go to dan and bethel to such abominable idolatry , or in suffering the basest of the people to take on●them the priests office , but the prophets reproving jeroboam's commanding of that idolatrous worship , and priests , which is a greater sinne , must by consequence condemne his not punishing of it , which is a lesse sin , so david sinned as a magistrate in suffering bathshe●a to commit adultery , and to wrong her husband , and to violate gods law , and should not onely as a magistate have hindered her , but should have put her to death for adultery , he being the supreme magistrate , and there being an expresse law of god that the adulterer , man or woman , should dye the death , levit. . . which david knew well ; yet the prophet nathan does not in expresse tearms condemne david for not putting bathsheba to death , though he faithfully reproved david , because nathan reproving david for the adultery it selfe committed in his owne person as the greater sinne , must by consequence condemne davids tollerating of bathsheba an adulteresse to live , which was a lesser sinne , and it will not follow that david a king should tollerate knowne adultery in bathsheba a subject , because nathan does no where in direct tearms ( nor any scripture elsewhere that we read ) condemne david for not punishing with the sword the adultery of bathsheba ; so nathan , g●d and other prophets no where reprove david sparing the life of joab a murtherer . when christ reproved the sadduces , for denying the resurrection , he reproves , by consequence , both church and state for tollerating the denying of the resurrection , and supposeth the tolleration of it to be against the law of god. . it is no argument at all from . a negative fact . . in such a particular scripture , to prove the lawfulnesse of tolleration . let then answer this , christ that was a faithfull preacher to state and church , no where reproveth in the gospell , the tolleration of the extortion of publicans , sodomie , murther , the absolving of a murtherer at the feast , a bloody tolleration , denying of god , blasphemy ; ergo , it was lawfull for the church and state to suffer all these . . this answer inferreth that the church should tollerate all false doctrines , and the denying of the resurrection , and that there should be no church censure , contrary to mat. yea christ does no where rebuke the pharisees , scribes and priests , because they did not , by preaching , admonish and convince their fellows the sadduces of that hereticall doctrine that the dead shall not rise , and by this there should be not onely a physicall tolleration , and a non punishing by the magistrate of all heresies , but a morall forbearing , and a no-rebuking , no preaching against false wayes , and so not onely church-censures are taken away contrary to matth. . , , . revel . . , , , , , . but it is not lawfull for ministers or teachers to write or teach against iezabel , and these that hold the doctrine of balaam , by this reason of the libertines . nor does christ command the rulers of the people to punish the false witnesses that rose against him . nor does he rebuke church or state for tollerating the publicans to extort the people , nor caesar and pilate , for oppressing the people , nor the scribes and pharisees for not preaching against herods beheading of iohn baptist , or pilates mixing the gallileans blood with the sacrifice , luke . ergo , ministers are to tollerate bloody magistrates , and not to preach against them . the sixth answer to elude these lawes is , if these lawes binde us in the new testament , then must you not adde nor diminish from the law , deut. . and so must the whole city , inhabitants and cattle , be put to the edge of the sword , and devoted to a curse , v. , , , . which ye cannot say beares any truth under the new testament , except we say that papists and their babies should be put to the edge of the sword , and their houses and land they dwell in execrable . answ . there are three different lawes , deut. . one against the seducing false prophet , to v. . a second against any seducing person , if it were brother or wife , to v. . a third , to the end of the chapter , of a city , state or society , that will defend a false teacher . now we argue not from the third law ; but there is no warrant to punish the sonne of a false prophet , idolater , heathenish or popish , or of wife , or brother that tempt us to apostacy , and to follow false gods , yea , or to hurt land , house , or cattle that belongs to them , the sonne shall not beare the sinne of the father , except god by a positive law command it . but the third law , upon which we build not our arguments , at least , as touching any ceremoniall part of it , belongs not much to us , for to gather the spoyle of such a city , and to burne it every whit , for the lord , as a cursed and devoted thing or place , is clearly ceremoniall and typicall , because now every creature of god is clean , rom. . ▪ and so are all the victualls or meats of heathens , or papists now , and good and sanctified , tim. . , . and what god hath cleansed , we are not to esteem common or prophane , act. . . and the like must we say of places , tim. . . ioh. . . zach. . . and by proportion , of all creatures , the creatures cannot now be typically cursed , and execrable as then , deut. . . . for the holy land , and every city was made by the lord typically and ceremonially holy , and a pledge of a heaven , when therefore a seducer fled to any city from the judge , if that city would partake with him in his sinne , and save him from the hand of justice , that city forfeited its typicall holinesse , and it , and all things in it , the spoyle , cattle and goods , made accursed , and to bee burnt with fire , and all the inhabitants young and old , put to the edge of the sword , and that not under the no●ion of false teachers , but as open rebells against god , his holy law ; and the judge , the minister of god , was to avenge that blasphemy , and the morall part is this ; if the army now on foot in england will against the laws of god and man protect blasphemers and false teachers , and save them from the hand of justice , and will reward , countenance , and promote seducers of soules , our humble opinion is , that they render themselves obnoxious to the sword of the magistrate . but the punishing of infants , and burning of the spoyle was a meer temporary typical law that doth not abolish us in the new testament . now libertines bring this as an argument . we cannot put to death false teachers by deut. . for then should we by that law kill their children and cattle , which consequence we deny as false and vaine . for our divines strongly argue from the morall equity , and the law of nature ●ar●anting joshua to make warre with the canaanites in the old testament , to prove the lawfulnesse of warres under the new testament upon the same morall equity , as ●osh . ● . , . those that refused to make peace with is●●●l , and came against israel in battle , against those israel might raise warre , by the law of nature in their owne defence . but such were all the canaanites except those of gib●on , josh . . v. . . and this argument holds strongly in the new testament , if any , as some anabaptists doe inferre , this is no good argument , because if the major proposition were true , then should we also kill the women and sucking children , as the lord commanded saul , touching the amalekites , sam. . and then should we destroy the cattle and burne the spoyle with fire , for joshua and israel made such a war with iericho , &c. and the rest of those cities , yea israel destroyed them utterly , and shewed them no favour , josh . . . we with good ground deny the consequence , because the warre with these seven nations was warranted by the law of nature , but the warre , tali modo , to destroy utterly young and old , cattle , and all they had , was from a ceremoniall and temporall law peculiar to the jewes , because god would have his church neither inriched by their goods , nor to make covenants , and marriages with them , or to live in one society with them , nor to see their groves , lest they should bee insnared to follow their religion and strange gods. chap. xvi . prophesies in the old testament , especially zach. . , , , . , . for punishing false prophets vindicated . we argue from the predictions and prophesies in the old testament , touching the magistrates zeale under the new testament , especially that zach. . . also i will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to cease out of the land . . and it shall come to passe that when any shall yet prophesie , then his father and his mother that begat him , shall say unto him , thou shalt not live ; for thou speakest lyes in the name of the lord : and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through , when he prophesieth . . and it shall come to passe in that day that the prophets shall bee ashamed every one of his vision , when he hath prophesied , &c. that which the prophets foretell shall commend the zeale of kings and rulers under the messiahs kingdome , must be the lawfull and necessary duty of the christian prince under the new testament . but the punishing of false teachers under the new testament is such ; ergo , the proposition is undeniable ; the assumption i prove , . the time when this zeale shall be put forth by the godly prince or ruler , is , v. . in that day when there shall be a fountaine opened to the house of david for sinne and for uncleannesse , that is , when remi●●ion in the blood of christ shall be preached by apostles , pastors and teachers , to davids house , to the church of christ , as it clearly relates to that day or time , c. . . when the lord shall destroy the enemies of jerusalem , and make the house of david , as god , and as an angel of god , v. . and when he shall poure the spirit of grace and supplication on the church , and they shall see him whom they have pierced , and crucified , and shall mourne every family apart for their sinnes . . bodily punishment is descerned , thou shall not live . . the cause is set downe , for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord. . the execution of the sentence is , his father and his mother , the godly rulers , and the dearest of his friends shall thrust him through , that is , he shall cause the law of god , deut. . , , . &c. be executed against him . the answer to this argument hath no hue or apparent coulorablenesse of truth . as . it respecteth onely the church of the jewes , why ? because , it saith , the house of david , and the inhabitants of ierusalem , . because matth. . . he saith i am not sent but to the lost sheepe of the house of israel , and this fountaine cannot reasonably be opened to the gentiles , but to the iewes , . it is for the iewes encouragement , ezr. . . and the prophets use not to speake of the gentiles , to make them equal and superior in holy priviledges to them ; for it argueth gods displeasure with the iewes : i will move them to iealousie with those that are no people . . ( the word land ) i will cut off the names of idols out of the land , indefinitly put in the old testament , notes the land of canaan , it was fulfilled under antiochus , and ended with the siege and destruction of jerusalem . ans . . it 's strange that the house of david should more note in prophecies the iews excluding the gentiles , then the house of israel , and the house of iudah should signifie the jewes only , which is apparently false ; for the house of israel , ier. , v. . v. . . the seed of israel , syon , iacob , esay . . . expounded to be the church of the new testament , with whom the everlasting covenant of grace is made , as is expounded hebr. . , , , , . when the former covenant that is faulty and made with the jewes only , and undeniably , as the fountaine is first opened and preached to the jewes , mat. . . c. . , . act. . . yet not to them only , except wee say this place , and the powring of the spirit on davids house , zach . . and the writing of the law in the inward parts , and the teaching by god , and the eternall covenant of grace is made with only the jewes excluding the gentiles , that the new heart is not promised to them , and the law not written in the heart of the gentiles , see rom. . . where it is said all israel shall be saved , and the fulnesse of the gentiles comes in , and the gentiles that beleeved not have obtained mercy , v. . . act. . . . so james , act. . . after this i will returne , and will build againe the tabernacle of david . . that the re●idue of men might seeke , and all the gentiles , &c. . it is a shame to blot paper with such divinity , that when god intends to comfort the jewes , hee is not wont to speake of the calling of the gentiles ; for it still argues his displeasure with the iewes , the just contrary is the divinity of the prophets and apostles , esay . . sing o barren . . thy seed shall inherit the gentiles , esay . . arise , shine , for thy light is come . . for the gentiles shall come into thy light , , , , , . . the names of idols will not helpe , nor the name of land , because they are old testament words ; the contrary is , prov. . . prov. . . the king by judgement establisheth the land , any land , not of iudea only , prov. . . . psal . . . that this zeale ceased with the fiege of ierusalem is said gratis , and is no more true then that the fountaine of christs blood was dryed up then , and ran no more to davids house , to iewes and gentiles ; this were to say , this fountaine is opened to the iewes only , and runs dry , when it over-flowes more abundantly . . answ . be it that civill magistrates ought to proceed , with as great zeale , against delinquents under the gospel , as eliah against baals preists and phineas against idolaters , yet it followes not they ought to put out their zeal in killing false prophets with the ●word , for this is blind zeale under the gospell , john . . act . . act. . . answ . the holy ghost commends this zeale under the gospell , when the fountaine shal be opened for davids house , his father that begat him shall thrust him through . this answer saith that this zeale , zach. . is the bloody zeale of persecuting saul , and of others , raising persecution against the gospell preached by paul and barnabas , so the answer contradicts god , who saith this zeal was truely and lawfully set , as touching the object , not being set on against the members of christ and paul , for the gospell , but against false prophets that speake lyes in the name of the lord , ver . . mr. goodwin brings an example of blind and bloody zeale against the saints and the apostles , to prove that the christian magistrate should have no zeale at all to punish false teachers under the new testament , which is just this in logicall reduction : magistrates under the new testament should not butcher the innocent , nor murther the saints , ergo , under the new testament magistrates should not take vengeance on murtherers , evil doers , and blasphemers , who preach doctrines of devills . it is as good logick as this , godly rulers should not doe unjustice and oppression , ergo , they should not do justice and right in saving the flock from grievous wolves . answ . these who are absolutely for slaying by death , and thrusting through , doe not allow , that for every error the father should kill the childe . answ . this is yet to object against the holy ghost , not against us , for the text will bear no such thing , for the prophet that is to be thrust through , is not every sonne , nor for every error . but it is . a false prophet not called to be a prophet , but one that takes on a hairy mantle to deceive , as the . v. holds forth ; and so he pretends a calling from god , when he hath none . . he prophesies not errors only but lies , that hee knowes , or may know , except he were wilfully ignorant , to be lyes . . he speaks them in the name of the lord and sayes , he hath seene the visions of god , and the word of the lord came to me , when no such thing was , but he utters his owne phancies , and hee that does these three , deserves bodily punishment , and if they bee lyes , striking at the root of the christian faith , hee deserves to dye the death . the text will not bear that his father and his mother with their owne hands shall thrust him through , without addressing themselves to the judge . but it is an allusion to the law , deut. . his father and mother shall not pity him , but cause him to be thrust through . so elias said to achab , hast thou killed and also gotten possession ? when achab with his owne hands had not killed naboth , but by his command and letter had procured that others should doe it , so sam. . . thou hast killed vriah , but it is exponed david procured that the ammonites should kill vriah , david with his owne hand did not thrust him through . the answer is , because the objector is like to be cumbred with this text he saith , ( for i repeate not what i answered before ) the best exposition , and fullest is , his father shall pierce him through , that is , shall indeavour to take him off , and deterre him from such a practice , by laying before him the sentence of the death out of the law , exod. . . . threatning , if thou goe on thou shalt not live ( with god ) but shall be condemned — he shall pierce him through with sharp and piercing words , the word of god is compared to a two edged sword , psal . . ● . &c. and ver . . there is that speaketh like the piercing of a sword , so turnovins . and the predictions in scripture are spoken as performances . jer. . i have set thee over the nations to root out , &c. that is , to foreshew or threaten rooting out , so chytraeus . they shall confute their wicked opinions , &c. answ . though turnovius expound piercing through , by preaching death from the law , and terrifying , yet since the objector weakly and groundlesly ( as we saw ) will r●strict this prophesie to the church of the jewes , and a poore short time , when this zeale endured . it must , with his leave , be meant ( in that day ) that is , in the time of the gospel , as in other places it must be taken , as ier. . . v. . ier. . . ier. . . . ioel ▪ . . zach. . . for so prophesies of christs kingdome are expounded to have their accomplishment in christs gospel-kingdome , and then the law , piercing through , and terrifying , must be in use under the gospel , which is all we crave ; therefore the objector adds to the words of the threatning ; thou shalt not live ( to wit before god , and so leaps from the threatning of the sword of the magistrate , deut. . which hee saith is the sense of the place , to the second death , and a dying before god. . but let us have an instance where piercing through , dying and wounding , is put for metaphoricall wounding with words to gratifie , the objectors erroneous sense wee cannot quit this place so , for all the text cryes for a reall piercing and killing . . it is i grant an easie way to answer places of scripture that can but bear a literall sense , to change them into metaphors , so you may give to the magistrate with some anabaptists , rom. . a metaphoricall sword , and pay him metaphoricall tribute , and give him metaphoricall obedience : what more reason to make this a morall slaying , and piercing with words , then a morall or metaphoricall idol , or a metaphoricall false prophet , a metaphoricall uncleane spirit , and passing out of the land ? these words , thou shalt not live , are words of the law , and the piercing through metaphoricall , but those words , againe ( thou speakest lies in the name of the lord ) are not metaphoricall , but containe a proper truth , such a complication is not in all the scripture . . the words in their literall sense are faire and easie , and not to bee wrested to a spirituall or borrowed sense without ground ; it much lesseneth the zeale foretold to be under the gospel , and turnes a reall zeale over into words of threatning ; the text saith the contrary , his father shall thrust him through , and this works so upon him , that others shall really leave their false prophecying , and shall say , i am no prophet , but a herdman ; now if the words be a prophecie to be fulfilled only in the jewes excluding the gentiles , as the objector saith , then is it no zeale at all , but a most sinfull and unjust dispencing with the law , and a zeale far below the law ; for the law saith , deut. . if the seducing prophet which were as neer to thee , as a brother , son , daughter , or wife in thy bosome , thou must not smooth him , and oyle him with sharpe words , and meer threatnings ; yea , but thou must act against him , v. . thine eye shall not pitie him , thou shall not spare him , neither shalt thou conceale him . . thou shalt surely kill him , thine hand shall be first upon him , to put him to death . now this cannot be a metaphoricall putting to death , but the objectors metaphoricall , and minatory piercing of him through with sharpe and piercing words , imply necessarily that yee must conceale him , and pitie him , and not kill him , nor stretch out any hand against him , first or last to hurt him , but only stretch your tongue against him , and barely threaten him , and terrifie him , but let him live : if the prophecie be extended to iew and gentile , under the gospel , which against the text the objector denies , then it argues , . that there is such a law under the gospel , else if it be an unjust law , and out of date now under the gospel , the threatning and piercing through must bewith lying words , and father must utter to the lying prophet lies to terrifie him ; and say , son if thou desist not from prophesying lies , thou shalt be thrust through with the magistrates sword , and die according to the law ; that is , i foreshew and threaten according to the law ( but it is an unjust , and an out-dated law to libertines that obliegeth not under the new testament ) that thou shalt be thrust through and die ; that is , i fore-shew and prophesie a lie , that thou ought to be put to death , and persecuted for thy conscience ; whereas no such thing ought to be now , when the law , deut. . is worne out of vigor . . it must follow that lying and false words uttered in a threatning manner must be the way to cause the false prophet to bee ashamed of his vision and prophesying falsely no more , but say , i am no prophet but an herdman . whereas the holy ghost sayth , feare of thrusting through is the cause . if it be onely a piercing meerly minatory , by threatning and rebukes , these doe not change the prophet and gaine him to the truth , as the objector would imply , for refutation in a doctrinall , and instructing , and teaching way only doth that : no rebukes no law-threatnings doe change the false prophet , for threatnings and rebukes doe suppose the seducer seeth that hee seduceth , and that he proprophesieth lyes which yet the false prophet cannot see , till hee bee convinced of the errour of his way , and rebukes will not doe that . but i would put to the objector his owne quere , is it fit to rebuke a man who can doe no other but publish lyes , because he lacketh supernatural grace , which would make him a true prophet ? these words v. . what are those wounds in thy hands ? hold forth a visible and reall piercing through of the hands , for some false doctrine hee hath preached , according to the merit of his heresie , then it must bee some other thing then a verball threate or a metaphoricall piercing through with words which are transient , and not parmanent , and visible as wounds and print of stroakes , cicatrices , in the hands : so i cannot but think the objector hath strained his light to find a violent exposition to elude the place . it s true , that da. chytreus and melanthon acknowledge a confutation of errours by words , but chytreus in the same place on this text , goeth farther , they shall confute false teachers ( saith he ) as asa removed his owne mother from worshipping of idols . but how ? chron. . . he removed her from being queen , because she had made an idol in a grove . this removing was not a morall confutation by words , but a compulsory , by royall authority , which is essentially coactive and in order to the sword . deodate , and the english divines , call it a representation of the spirit of knowledge and discretion , but they adde , and zeale in christs true church to discerne false doctrines and to oppose them , how ? by not onely refuting them by the word , but by censures of excommunication and rebukes . the objector might have read forward , ver . . one shall say , if it appeare that he hath passed through the churches discipline , because he hath been a seducer , hee shall confesse it , and give god the glory , approving of the churches severity , used for his correction . the objector , as we have heard , rejects ecclesiasticall coercing of false teachers as wel as civill . which diodate and those divines acknowledge : nor doe they exclude the magistrate as he doth ; he addeth grotius a reconciler and an apostate and calleth the number of five very late writers , the best expositers on the place of zachary . with his leave , calvin , gualther , piscator , junius , daneus , five for five , and twenty and twenty , and foure as good ( many of them esteemed better ) have written the contrary . i have not time now to levy hoasts and armies of writers . but it s the objectors best to bee silent of divines , and to quit the cause too , for he sayeth nothing to a purpose . but what socinians and sectaries joyning with serveiur , castalio , minus celsus , vaticanus , acontius , episcopius , and the belgick arminians against calvin and beza , hath said ( with favour of his learning ) twice , better if they were translated into the english tongue . nor must wee with sharpe rebukes , and piercing words , like sharpe swords pierce through hereticks : for our libertines tell us , christ spake words of hony and butter to apostate samaritans , and the servant of the lord must be gentle . then must we not speake fire and hell to the godly saints , to paul best , to tyndal that denyeth the scripture to be the word , and blasphemeth the trinity , and independents though they persecute presbyterians , nurse them if they were samaritans , are so far from piercing the familists , antinomians enthysiasts through with piercing words , that they advance them to highest places of dignity . to this prediction i adde , the prophesies * touching kings , those that are by office to bee nurse-fathers to the church , to minister to her , and lend their royall brests to bee sucked by her , and as godly kings are to praise the lord as godly kings , are to bring gifts & presents to christ , & are to be wise & serve the lord , and kisse the mediator , and to bring their royall honour to the new jerusalem , and by whom kings reigne , they and their royall sword cannot be excluded from commanding the priests , prophets and teachers to befriend the bride , and decor , and d●●● her for her lord and husband , to give wholesome milke to the children , as they would be rewarded of princes as wel doers , or punished as ill doers , and would be protected from grievous wolves , not sparing the flock , nor can they bee excluded from all royall and politicke guarding of both tables of the law ▪ as if they were but fleshly ordinances . but such are kings and princes , ergo &c. non is it my mind that kings are sub-mediators or vicars of christ mediator , as erasti●●● dream , but what ever kings do in , or about matters of religion , they do it in a politick way not as commanding the conscience , but in order to civill and temporary rewards and punishments . it s true christianity addes no new magistratical power to a king , it being only a gratious accident without which a man may be a king , yet it spiritualizeth the exercise of royall power and christianity is no accident of a christian king , but a christian king , kindly , and as a christian king , is to serve christ the lord , and to conserve with his royall dignity all gospell-ordinances in an externall politick way ; and so he owes royall service to christ , as such a king , so graced of god , and in this consideration he brings his glory to christ , and tutors the bride the lambes wi●e . justice is an accident of a man , but not of a just man. chap. xvii . places in the new testament , especially rom. . for punishing of false teachers vindicated . argument xi . those who are powers ordained of god , and a terror not to good workes but to evill ; and ministers of god for good , are revengers , and to execute wrath on evill doers , are kings and supreame , or governours sent by the king for the punishment of evill doers , and for the praise of them that doe well , are to punish all false teachers , and such as ruine the soules of others , and waste the church . but the king and all lawfull ●ulers , parliaments , or others , are such , rom. . , , , , , . pet. . . tit. . . matth. . . and false teachers are evill workers , evill doers , dogges , phil. . . they rub the ●ontagion of their evill deeds upon others , for those that receive them into their houses , and bid them god speed , are partakers of their evill deeds , joh. ver . . . then must such teachers be evill doers , they subvert whole houses . divers answers to little purpose are given to this argument . as . it is against the wisdome of god in governing the world to make magistrates judges of what is truth , and heresie , since the generallity of magistrates , yea of men are ignorant thereof , and uncapable in questions of doubtfull disputation . say that the synod were equally divided , whether presbytery or independence be the way of god , or say the major part ( which is ever the worst ) determine amisse , what shall the magistrate do ? and the evill doer , rom. . cannot be he that doth evill without limitation , or thinks evill , but pro subjecta materia . but he that doth evil , whereof ordinary magistrates , heathen or christian , are competent judges , which is manifestly of politicall consideration , as that which is contrary to the light and law of nature , as whoredome , adultery , murther , theft , unjustice , sedition , treason . answ . . this argument is against the wisdome of god in appointing magistracy , as well as against us , for there be a world of questions of doubtfull disputation , what is according or what contrary to the light and law of nature , in murther , medicine , usury , polygamy , incest , marriage , contracts , false witnesse , and these are so controverted , yea and there be matters too hard in judgement for ordinary men , between blood and blood , plea and plea , stroake and stroake , deut. . . no lesse then in matters of religion , and to erre in taking the life of a guiltlesse man in any subject , is as great misgovernment as can be , though i dare not charge god with it , as the objecter doth . . when the holy ghost forbiddeth the master of every christian family ( and there must be a far larger number of heads of families then christian magistrates ) to owne a hereticke as a guest , or to salute him , joh. . and commandeth christians not to eat with an idolator , cor. . . to reject an heretick , tit. . . to avoyd false teachers that creep into houses , tim. . , . and such as cause divisions contrary to the doctrine of the gospel , rom. . , . sure he supposeth they have knowledge to judge what is error and heresie , what is truth , otherwise he commands us to turne our backs on such , as the blinde man casts his club . may not one say , this is against the wisdome of god in the government of christian families and societies to interpose our judgement in doubtsome disputations , to judge who is the hereticke , and to be avoyded , who is the sound beleever . . the uncapability , of magistrates and most men to judge here , is the want of infallibility , such as the immediately inspired prophets had , then it s against the wisdome of god , that we try the spirits and doctrines , and beleeve them , for if the generality of men , let alone christian magistrates ▪ be uncapable of fundamentall truths , they cannot judge them to be truths , nor heresies , except they be infalibly , and immediately inspired by this argument ; it is then against the wisdome of god to bid any beleeve the gospel , but the prophets and apostles . . the magistrate being a christian , should see with his owne eyes , and judge the presbytery worthy of his politicke sanction , and though synods , divide , or erre , the error and uncertainties of men , that are accidentall to all ordinances , are no rule to magistrates on earth ; and by this reason , which hath as much force against preaching the gospell as against the christian magistrates politicall judging , when ministers are divided , and the equall halfe or the major part preach arrianisme , socinianisme , famil●●●e , &c. and the lesser number sound doctrine , the objecter needs not aske , under which of their shadows shall the magistrate repose for peace and safety ? i inlarge the question , and let the objecter answer , under which of their shadows shall all their hearers repose for faith and establishment in the truth ? and i answer , call no man rabbi , let magistrates and others receive the truth in love , and let him answer , when foure hundred prophets say to achab , goe to ramath gilead ▪ fight and prosper , and one michajah saith , goe not left thou be killed , under which shall achab repose ? shall then achab heare the voice of the lord in no prophet , because foure hundred speake lyes ? or shall not foure hundred michajahs declare the minde of god to the prince , because so many false prophets speake the contrary ? . it s true , ill-doers here must be such as magistrates generally may judge , but not all ill-doers , false prophets , or the like , magistrates as magistrates , are to judge ill-doers , but it followes not that all magistrates whether heathen or christian , are to judge all ill-doers , whether gospel-seducing teachers or murtherers , for there wanteth a condition in heathen magistrates , for the want whereof they cannot actually , and in the capacity of heathens , judge false teachers , arrians , socinians , and the like , not because they are not essentially magistrates as well as christian magistrates , but because they want the knowledge of the gospell , even as inferiour judges are as essentially judges in israel , as the priests and the great sanedrim at jerusalem , and may judge of their office between blood and blood , but if it be a controversie too hard for them between blood and blood , and the party be willing to appeale , these inferiour judges cannot actually judg that controversie , but it must go to the sanedrim , deut. . . . so a father as a father , whether heathen or christian , and a master of a family by his place ( the like i say of a husband , a tutor , a doctor in their respective places ) are by their place and relation to teach their children and servants the principles of the doctrine of the gospel , by these places , gen. . , . exod. . , . ps . . , , , . joel . . prov. , , . eph. . . tim. , . deut. . . . yet while they are heathen fathers , and heathen masters , they neither can , nor are obliged actually to teach any thing of the gospel , they never hearing of the gospel , are obleiged not to beleeve in a christ of whom they never heard , rom. . , , . and those that christ was never preached to , are not condemned for gospell-unbeliefe , joh. . . but for sinnes against the law of nature , rom. . . , , . rom. . , , , . and the like must wee say of judges whether heathen or christian , though in the state of heathenish , they never having heard of christ , freeth them from an obligation of actuall punishing gospell hereticks , yet as judges their office is to punish such , but neither heathen princes , nor heathen fathers , masters , husbands , tutors , and teachers of schooles , are obliged to an actual exercise of all and every magistraticall , fatherly , masterly , maritall , and tutory gospell-duties , toward their underlings and pupills , if they live in a countrey where they are invincibly ignorant of the gospell , if the lord by no providence send preachers of the gospell to them . and how shall they beleeve in him of whom they never heard ? and how shall they judge hereticks sinning against a gospell of which they never heard ? let no man stumble at this providence , god hath made the supreme magistrate judge of all murthers , yet may this godly prince , and the generality of men be ignorant , yea uncapable , at least most unfit to judge how a bloody physitian tooke away the ▪ life of such a childe by this vegetable , or this herbe , or this syrrope , to the end his owne sonne might be heire ; dare we say with this objecter , therefore this providence in appointing such a godly prince to be ●udge of murther , because he is not a skilled physitian , is inconsistent with the wisdome and goodnes of god in the government of the world , the like instances i may give in thousands of the like cases , in which the christian judge may be ignorant . and i cannot dissemble , but it is a hard question how the magistrate as a magistrate , doth punish gospel-hereticks , for so all magistrates , even heathen magistrates , who are invincibly ignorant of the gospel , in regard they never heard of the gospel , should be obliged to punish false-teachers , and gospel-hereticks , which seems hard ; for it is a sinne against the magistraticall duty of an indian magistrate not to punish gospel-hereticks ? answ . it follows not ; for nothing follows , but , it s a sin in an indian prince , and he — sinneth against his magistraticall office in that he punisheth not an indian false-teacher , who teacheth against the law of nature , because an indian should not worship the devill ; but the indian ruler invincibly ignorant of the gospel , sinneth not against his office as a magistrate , because he punisheth not a gospel-hereticke , for he is not obliged to every magistraticall act as a magistrate , not to those of which he is invincibly and faultlessely ignorant , as an indian husband and master invincibly ignorant of the gospel sinnes not against the duty of a husband and head of a family , though he teach not wife , children , and servants , the principles of the gospel , which a christian husband and head of a family is obliged to doe , not as a husband and head of a family simply , but as such a husband and head as heareth the gospel , and so either heareth and knoweth , or may heare these gospel principles , if he were not thereof ignorant through his owne sinfull neglect . object . but the magistrate as the magistrate punisheth gospel-heretickes , ergo , all magistrates , even heathen magistrates faile against their magistraticall duty , if they punish not gospel-heretickes , and their ignorance cannot excuse them . answ . the antecedent is not simply true , every magistrate as a magistrate sinneth against his office , if he punish not some false teachers , if convened before him and convinced . but every magistrate , as a magistrate , punisheth not every heretick against the gospell : but onely such a magistrate as heareth the gospell , punisheth such a gospell heretick . we say that magistrates by vertue of their office make lawes for no transporting of monies out of england , but you cannot inferre that if magistrates did this by their magistraticall power , then magistrates , as magistrates ; and so all magistrates of india , and all heathen magistrates ought to make lawes that no mony bee transported out of england ; it is no consequent at all , for though english magistrates make such lawes by their magistraticall power , yet they doe this as such magistrates , not as magistrates ; thousands such wee may alleadge . object . how then doth the magistrate , as the magistrate serve christ , mediator in punishing gospell hereticks , and bringing his kingly honour to the new jerusalem , and casting his crowne downe at the feete of the lambe ? answ . the magistrate , as the magistrate ( should wee speake accurately in such an intricate debate ) doth not serve christ as mediator , for then all magistrates , heathen and indian , were oblieged to serve him , as the axiome proveth . quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but the magistrate , as such a magistrate , lustred with christianity punisheth gospel hereticks , and sinneth against his magistraticall office if hee doe not so : for christianity spiritualizeth the exercise of maritall , paternall , magistraticall power , and elevates them above their common nature in christian husbands , fathers , magistrates , which it cannot do in all husbands , as husbands ; fathers , as fathers ; magistrates , as magistrates : even suppose they be heathens , quod non ni est non operatur . object . but why then may not a christian magistrate , as a christian , if not as a magistrate be a vicar of christ ? answ . . because christ as mediator ; hath no vicars , nor sub-mediators , & so the minister , or the christian magistrate as the christian magistrate , cannot be the vicar of christ . because the christian magistrate , as the christian magistrate , and even lustered with christianity , which is not in every magistrate , yet operatur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in externals and onely can as a christian magistrate proceed according as the heresie is proved by witnesse , or confessed , and obstinately maintained by the heretick , and all this is externall , and doth but externally , and in external means promove the churches spirituall good , and the mediatory kingdome , and it is such a promoving as christ may wel want , though ordinarily he cannot want pastors and teachers . quest . but doth not the mediator christ , as mediator , promove his mediatory kingdome in , and through the christian prince , as his instrument , subordinate to him as mediator ? answ . not at all , for christ useth the christian migistrate as his servant to beat the wolves from the flock , but not as king , mediator as god-man , head of the church , for christ mediator as mediator , works not by externall violence , or , by the sword , in his mediatory kingdome , joh. , . if my kingdome were of this world , mine owne would fight for mee . ergo , it is but borrowed accidentall helpe and service , that christ hath in his mediatory kingdome , from kings , he workes not as mediator by fighting . christ who is mediator qui est mediator acteth by beleeving kings , not quâ mediator as he is mediator , the sword may procure good and peace to the mystical visible body , and immunity from spirituall errors . but this is a meanes to christ as mediator in the by , and at some times , not such as is the ministery of the word , cor. . . which is spiritual not carnal : though ministers be not sub-mediators , yet christ as mediator workes and conquers in them , and by them . but i returne . to say the text speakes of evill doers , which appertaines to the cognizance of the ordinary magistrate ( if it were not as ordinary to the magistrate to be an understanding christian as another man ) is to begge the question , for we say , false teachers , wolves in sheeps skins , woorying the flock , which may be knowne by their works , as a fig●ree is known from a thistle , by its fruit , are such evill doers . the text and law distinguisheth not , and mentioneth no more murtherers then false teachers . therefore the text meanes all evill doers , that per●urbe humaine societies , as spirituall wolves and lyons that devoure the flocke , and those that thinke ill in their hearts , to all men of sound sense are punishable onely by him that knowes the heart , not by judges . to say the light , and law of nature is the judges only compasse hee must sayl by , and that hee must punish no sinnes , but such as are against the law of nature . . it pulls the booke of the law of god , yea , the bible out of the kings hand , that containes greater deepes then the law of nature can reach , contrary to the word of god , deut. . , , . deut. . . , . for the king , as the king , should have the booke of the law with him on the throne , to be his rule , deut. . . josh . . . . this rule hinders not but the king and ruler may judge ill doers so farre as the light , and law of nature will goe along with him . yet the objector will be unwilling the ruler take away the head of a seducer , that should say , and teach men with caligula , there is no god , chance made all , and rules all : we want not such blasphemous impostors as these . but ( sayth the objector ) by him that doth evill , is not meant the spreading of errors or heresies . . they had no reason to feare the magistrate spoken of here , rom. . for spreading and publishing the most orthodox truths , for they might without any danger at all from the magistrate , here spoken of , have taught that the roman idols were true gods. they had ten times more cause to be affraid of the power of publishing orthodox truths , as that there is but one god , and the roman gods are dumbe idols , or speaking devills . . that doing of evill , against which the magistrate , here spoken of , is the minister of god to execute wrath , is opposed to that subjection to higher powers . ver . . and of the same consideration with resisting of powers so sharpely reproved . vers . . then by it is only meant the doing of evill , which was prohibited by the roman lawes and edicts : and no man resistes the power who lives in an orderly subjection and obedience to all their lawes , now the romans in their lawes never forbad the publishing of errour and heresies in religion , then doing of evill in spreading of heresies , can be no resisting of the roman powers and lawes . againe that doing evil , ver . . is opposed to doing of good , ver . . vnto which there is a premise of a reward promised , even prayse from the magistrate . 〈◊〉 the doing of good , for which the apostle undertakes , they shall have prayse from the roman magistrate , was not the preaching and publishing the great and orthodox truths of christian religion , yea , they were enemies to that good doing . answ . all these leane upon a castle beyond the moone , to wit , that paul speakes , rom. . of no powers but the roman magistrate , and that hee is to bee obeyed at the onely minister of god , and then having layd this most false and vaine ground , he cryes out , o england , england make much of thy scriptures , but take heed of the glosses of thy teachers . which we may retort , but this is an impious glosse : for though paul aymed at obedience to magistrates , even to persecuting nero in things lawfull , because some then , as anabaptists now , said the gospell freed christians from subjection and obedience to lawfull magistracy . but i prove that the apostle speakes of the magistrate , such as he is by gods appoyntment , and such as hee ought to bee , whither hee bee heathen or christian , and he speakes of a magistrate in generall . now the roman emperor and senate were not such powers in all their government , lawes and edicts , as every soule should be subject unto . for they made lawes in acts of the second table , and accordingly practised them , with violence and unjustice , to joyn not only house to house ( but not being provoked by any wrong ) kingdome to kingdome , the isle of brittain , and all the people of the world , and in that every soule ( i conceive ) ought to be subject to supperiour powers . if the objector render this sense , let every soule on earth be subject to the roman emperor nero , for he is the minister of god , for thy good , that is , for the good and peaceable government of all and every one that hath soules , because hee would raise warre and tyrannically subject them all to him . we wish england to beware of such glosses . whatever people resisted the roman empire and their bloody emperor nero , and others , in all their bloody edicts against innocent christians , ( for he is the magistrate here spoken of , sayth the objector ) they receive not damnation , not doe they resist the ordinance of god. . the roman emperour and senate in their laws and edicts , were a terror to good workes , not to evill , they rewarded those that persecuted and killed christians , and those that shed the blood of innocent people that they might bee tyrannous conquerours of them ; and made them commanders in warre , and hyred them so to doe : then the roman magistrate as he actually governed , and made neither law● nor edicts against spreading of errors and heresies cannot be the magistrate here spoken of . . the objector would be put in minde of the same answer given to this place , and others of the new testament by the anabaptists , who say there is no warrant in the old testament , that christians should bee magistrates , because the use of the sword was then typicall and ceremoniall , and this , and all places of the new testament doth command conquered christians subjection to heathen magistrates , and not to raise armes against them , but warrants not christians to take on them magistracie , because heathens should not be our patterne , but the word of god. . most false it is , and a begging of the question that evill doing is contracted and hampered in here , to subjection to the higher powers , that is , to the roman laws and edicts onely ; for it is opposed to the lawfull subjection due to the parliament of england , and to the king of britaine , and to all lawfull powers as well as to roman magistrates , as is cleare ; for there is no power but of god , and the powers that be , are ordained of god ; and paul speaketh of all magistrates , christian and heathen , that are lawfull magistrates , and commandeth subjection to every power , roman and christian , in the lord. what ? are there no powers ordained of god , but roman magistrates ? then may anabaptists well say , wee owe not subjection to christian magistrates by this text , but onely to the roman magistrate , who made no lawes against spreading of heresies , and when the apostle faith , let every soule bee subject to superiour powers , shall every soule , by this text , be subject to none but the roman magistrate ? i am sure , the reformed churches , and all our writers argue , that as many as have soules , popes , prelates , and roman clergy ought to be subject , by this text , to the good lawes of the christian emperours , and that all men , none excepted , neither clergy ( as they call them ) nor others , but are obliged by this scripture , and pet. . and tit. . to give obedience and subjection to all lawfull magistrates , heathen and christian , and to their lawes , and to pay tribute , and to be judged by them , whereas papists plead exemption to churchmen , and sure , if no doing of evill be prohibited here , and deserve the just vengeance of the minister of god , but only such which was prohibited by the roman laws and edicts , then must the roman laws and edicts be as perfect as the word of god , for then the romans laws must command , reward and praise , all good that the ruler or any power ordained of god doth command , this is most false , they did not command the saving of the lives of the innocent british in this island , that never injured them , but commanded to kill them , they did not in their laws command their under-rulers , pilate and others , to protect innocent christians , to justifie and absolve jesus christ , but to condemn and murther them , though they gave all that was due to caesar , and their laws did not forbid all evill , that the judges and ministers of god are to execute wrath against , all murthering of innocent men in thousands , and most unjust and bloody warres against nations that never wronged them , and they forbad not the spreading of errors and heresies against the gospel that came to their eares , and made them that they had no cloake for their sinne , joh. . , . for paul brought the gospel to them , and it is a begging of the question that the roman emperours ought not to have made laws against spreading of heresie , and they were a terror to those that preached the gospel , and had their conversation among the gentiles blamelessely ; and so these emperours did not as the ministers of god , ought to doe , nor would the apostle undertake or be surety for nero , ( the objector undertakes for the text that in which the holy ghost will not bear him out ) that he shall give praise and reward for well-doing , all the well-doing that the text saith , the minister of god , by his office , is to reward , the roman magistrate did abhorre and persecute , if the apostle undertake those that doe well , shall have praise from the roman magistrate , if hee doe as a lawfull magistrate , then cannot the text be meant of the roman magistrate as he actually misgoverned and abused his power , for then hee was a terrour to those that preached orthodox truths , and worshipped dumbe idols , and by lawes and edicts , honoured and rewarded heathen priests that were not so good as baals chaplaines , and doth paul undertake , if the saints at rome would turne priests and servers of the roman gods , that they should doe well , and have praise from the roman magistrate ? for by the roman law , the roman rulers were to reward and praise such as did well in this sense . . nor doth paul undertake they shall have praise from the roman magistrate , if they doe well according as the roman lawes speakes of well-doing ; for then paul should undertake they should have praise from the roman magistrate for that which is evill-doing , which paul would never undertake , because killing of innocent men in unjust warres to conquer and inslave free states by the roman lawes was well-doing , and praised and rewarded by their laws as wel-doing . but this was to paul , and in it selfe evill-doing , and robbery , and makes the holy ghost to exhort to romish , and falsely so called , well-doing . chap. xviii . the place , tim. . . . for coercive power over false prophets , cleared . argument xii . that which we are to pray , we may have from the magistrate by his office , that is his office to doe , because prayers must be in faith , and grounded on the word of god. but we are to pray for kings and all that are in authority , that with the sword they would guard religion , and the church of god from wolves , false teachers , and those that think they do god service when they kill us , joh. . . that we may ( saith the apostle , tim. . . ) lead a quiet & a peaceable life in all godlinesse and honesty . nor can a magistrate procure a quiet and a peaceable life in all godlinesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and honesty as a magistrate , but by his sword , nor can he with meer words of mouth , onely exhort as a magistrate , the foxes not to destroy the vines , and wolves not to slaughter 〈◊〉 sheep , except he coerce false teachers and idolaters , because upon the occasion that micah and his mother made a molten image , and an ephod , and imposed it on their house , the holy ghost saith , judg. . , , , , . v . in those dayes there was no king in israel , but every man did that which was right in his owne eyes , hence it is cleare that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse , a naked permission from the magistrate to serve god is not enough , or that he suffer no man to do thesaints violence , but if wolves be permitted to teach what is right in their own erroneous conscience , and there be no magistrate to put them to shame , judg. . . and no king to punish them , then godlinesse , and all that concernes the first table of the law must be marred , and the intrinsecall end of the magistrate , which is a peaceable life in all godlinesse , is not attainable in an ordinary providence ; nor will it help to say , paul commandeth prayers to be made for the magistrates that were then heathen , who being ignorant of christ could conferre nothing to godlinesse , but meerly negatively , that they persecute not the godly for their conscience , nor permit others to persecute them ; for paul will have us to pray for their conversion , that they may become christian magistrates , and come to the knowledge of the truth , and then they doe more then negatively procure peace to the church ; for as magistrates now converted , they are to praise and reward , and promote to the dignity of judges , men fearing god , deut. . . yea and fearing god , as the scripture doth describe the fear of god , and so to reward christian well-doing , rom. . . & therefore christian kings as kings are to send such , & to promote them to bear rule over the people , pet. . . that so they may be 〈…〉 by the king for the punishment of evill doers , and for the praise of them that doe well . . nor is it true that paul will have us in that place , to pray onely for heathen kings , and that as heathen , ( as libertines suppose ) that wee may have negatively peace under them , they being excluded from all exercise of their magistraticall office in , or about matters of religion ; for paul commands us to pray for kings and all that are in authority ; and it is cleare , some in authority , and divers in neroes court were converted to the christian faith , phil. . . phil. . . nor is the prayer for kings to be restricted to the kings and rulers of that present age , when paul wrote that , but for all kings to be converted , and who shall beleeve and be saved ( seeing god will have all men to be saved ) that they may promote godlinesse in a politicke way by their sword . hence those that have no more to doe to procure a peaceable life in all godlinesse by their office , then heathens and pagans , or if they were not in such an office , yea those who have far lesse interest in christian religion , then if they did not beare the sword at all , can in no sort be the object of our prayers to god for the procuring of such a life in all godlinesse . but the latter is contrary to the word of truth . argument xiii . that which is foretold to be a fruit of repentance , and a casting off of the antichristian yoke , must be lawfull , and praise-worthy , but that the ten kings who made war with the lambe , and agreed for a time to give their kingdome to the beast , should now turne their swords , against babylon , under the notion of a whore , for the idolatrous worship and spirituall fornication of rome , and shall hate the whore as a whore , and shall make her desolate and naked , and shall eat her flesh , and burne her with fire , is a fruit of the repentance of the ten kings , rev. ▪ , , , , . therefore their turning of the sword against the pope , the whore of rome for their whoredomes , must be lawfull and praise-worthy ; the proposition is cleare : for if to joyne in warre with the whore against the lambe and his followers was a worke of the devill , in giving their power and kingdome to the beast , when god inclines their hearts to the contrary , and they joyne their power with the lambe against the whore , and destroy her , and make her naked , and desolate for her whoredomes , it must be a worke of the spirit of god , and a fruit of the repentance of those kings ; for when they repent and hate babylon , the holy ghost would not set downe their repentance in a worke of cruelty , and bloody persecution for consciences sake , as li●ertines define punishing idolaters to be . argument xiv . that which the servants of god doe in an extraordinary impulsion of the spirit , in the case of the sinfull neglect of the lawfull magistrate , or when there is no christian magistrate to doe it , that must be the ordinary constant duty of the magistrate , especially when that turns away wrath from the land , and is taken as acceptable service to god , as if the ordinary magistrate had done it . but the extraordinary punishing of those that violate the worship of god , and pervert the wayes of god , and the faith of others , is such , ergo , to punish such as violate the worship of god , and pervert the faith of others , must be the ordinary constant duty of the magistrate . the proposition is evident , because extraordinary acts necessary to bee done supply the want of ordinary acts , as in morall acts acceptable to god is cleare ; when the under-rulers doe not their duty , phineas is praised , that he being a priest , not a judge , slew zimri and cosbey , and phineas did acceptable service to god in so doing , num. . , , . and elias in his zeale killed the priests of baal , when achab the ordinary magistrate sinfully neglected his duty , and samuel now being no judge , killed agag , ●●go , it was the duty of saul as the ordinary magistrate to doe it . now in the new testament it is cleare the ordinary officers and porters should violently have casten out the buyers and sellers , and tables of money changers out of the temple , our saviour christ doth it i● an extraordinary way , and it was the zeale of the house of god that moved him , ps . . . job . . so armanias and sapheira lyed to the holy ghost , & defrauded the church in a matter of goods , therefore peter struck them dead , then if there had been a christian magistrate , he should have inflicted bodily punishment upon annanias and saphira ; so paul strikes eli●●● with blindnesse for attempting to pervert the faith of sergius paulus , ergo , the magistrate , if there had been any to procure a quiet life in all godlinesse to the church , should have punished elimas , and this is evident in acts of justice and sinfull omissions of men in ordinary places ; nor were these acts extraordinary in the substance of the act ( as i have observed ) but onely in regard of the efficient and manner of doing , though there be required an extraordinary impulsion in the doer , which in others in place , should be ordinary ; for acts extraordinary in the manner and exigence of providence , may be in the substance of the act ordinary duties , and to neglect them , is to sinne against a set command , if david and his followers , had refused to eat the shew-bread , because the law made it lawfull to none to eat it but priests , they had sinned against commandements of mercy , injoyned in the law of nature , nor was that an extraordinary rule , i will have mercy and not sacrifice ; when the law of nature , for the good of spirituall societies , requires that the godly magistrate drive away the wolves and lions from the flocke , we may see a positive command is not necessary . chap. xix . exemption of false prophets from coer●ive power , is not christian liberty . argument xv. that doctrine is not to be held which maketh that a part of christian liberty , which the word of god maketh no part at all thereof : for . if there be no bodily punishment to be inflicted on false teachers and blasphemers , then must christ by his blood repeal● all those law●● in the old testament ; but the scripture shewes us all our parts of christian liberty in these places of scripture , tit●● . . rom. . . thess . . . gal. . . gal. . . gal. . . act . . rom. . . rom. . ps . . . cor. . ▪ , , . rom. . . gal. . . . job . . . act. . . . heb. . . . heb. . , , , . col. . , . cor. . . . ● . 〈…〉 . rom. . . act. . . act. . . cor. . . math. , , , . maith . . . and elsewhere ▪ in all which places nothing 〈◊〉 hinted of the false teachers patent under the seale of the blood of the eternall covenant , that he is freed from the magistrates sword , though he destroy millions of soules . . where the common place of subjection due to kings and governours sent by them , pet. . . , , . is han●led , &c. freedome to sin , and consequently freedome to heresies , and teaching and spreading of false doctrines that eat as a gangreen , and is no lesse a worke of the flesh then adultery , murthers , witchcrafts , gal. . . , , , ●● judged false , liberty for a cloake of maliciousnesse , as if christi●ns were so made free by christ , as subjects were loosed from subjection to kings , and servants from being buffeted for ill-doing , pet. . . if some ill-doers , and the worst of men , even soule-murtherers be freed from punishment due to ill-doers , pet. . . and that by a writ under the hand of the mediator of the new covenant , theeves , robbers , murtherers , adulterers , which be innocent , if compared with false teachers and grievous wolves , may claim the same liberty to the flesh : for why should freedome to one sinne , and with immunity from the magistrates sword bee fathered on a charter sealed with christs blood , and not freedome to all sinnes ? . the end of christs redemption is , that we should use our freedome for no licence to the flesh , but as bought from bondage to sinne . if the conscience be immediately now under the new testament subject to god onely , and free from all commandments of ministers , church-magistrates , who are to command according to the word of god , and if notwithstanding of that , yet the practicall conscience , which should be the principall of all the morall actions of a christian in the duties of the second table , as touching the life , chastity , goods , name , and good report of our neighbour , must be forced , if subject to the lawfull commands of superiours , all men may doe to god and men , and destroy , and kill , and steale , as well as blaspheme and seduce soules , and the magistrate have nothing to doe with them , let anabaptists deny to pay tithes , or to pay souldiers for warres , kill innocent men upon the ground of immediate raptures , rob , and steale , because the just shall inherit the earth , deny and belye christ and religion before men , as familists now teach , for libertines must give a reason why christ hath freed a speculative conscience , as touching all acts of the first table from the magistrate , and his jedbrugh-slaves , but hath left as innocent a conscience , to wit , the practicall conscience as concerning the second table , which is as free in the court of the almighty , under the compulsion and bondage of the sword , and ha●● not taken in all consciences in the same charter . argument xvi . christ hath left the consciences of false teachers and hereticks under ecclesiasticall censures of admonitions , rebukes , excommunication , so as those that hold the doctrine of balaam and jez●bel , and such as call themselves apostles and are not , and grievous wolves must not be suffered , rev. . , . v. , . v. . tit. . . matth. . , , , . act. . , , . and these doe no more act upon the consciences of men by way of teaching , but by way of punishment , then the sword of the magistrate doth , and they are as compulsory as the sword for this threatning ( if yet still pervert the right wayes of the lord , and teach false doctrine , then must yee be casten out of the church , delivered to sathan , branded and shamed as ravening wolves , soxes , wasting the stocks and the vineyard ) this ( i say ) doth as much in way of compelling , as the weapon of iron and steele , yea and in the new testament , hereticks are to be no lesse compelled then under the old testament ( though libertines most ignorantly talke of compelling of consciences and forcing of men to opinion● ) for we are to reject and avoid the company of heretickes , and to put them to shame and reproach , not to eat with an idolater , nor to lodge in our houses , him that brings another gospel , tit. . . rom. . . tim. . , , , , . . cor . . . because of the publicke scandalls , by which the soules of others are infected , and their faith 〈◊〉 what soever maketh the name of god to be ●vill-spoke●● 〈◊〉 and all damnable heresies , which bring swift 〈◊〉 , and by which men make merchandise of soules , these we are charged to avoid , and these the whole church should censure , and should far more avoid . chap. xx. the parable of the wheat and the tares , discussed and cleared . now for the parable of the tares and the wheat , matth. . the author of the apologie of the belgicke arminians saith , i deny not but the parable of the tares is not meant directly of hereticks . the scope of the parable hath nothing to doe with the office of magistrates , in punishing or not punishing hereticks , but tendeth to moderate the too forward zeale of the disciples , and of all the godly that are inclined to murmure at providence that suffers wicked men to flourish and live with the godly , and that they are not cut off before the day of judgement , so doth the godly complaine and stumble at this dispensation , job . jer. . , . psal . . , , . &c. . christ forbids not simply to plucke up the tares , but onely secundum quid , in a case , when there is danger to plucke up the wheat with the tares , as in punishing a multitude or a whole society . . christ expounding the parable , passeth that part of it , best while ye plucke up the tares , yee plucke up the wheat also , and that part of the parable that christ expoundeth not , when he expoundeth all the rest , must belong nothing to the scope of the parable ; and we can conclude solidly no controverted point from every limbe , joynt , or wing of a parable ; nor was it christs scope to shew that magistrates should punish none of the children of the wicked one , because of the danger of cutting off the children of the kingdome with them , for the words may beare ( saith calvin ) then , that all punishments and censures , both civill and ecclesiasticke rebukes , and excommunication , should cease till the end of the world , and so also saith bullinger ; and the truth is , if the danger of erring in taking wheat for tares , or punishing the good and innocent , in place of the guilty , should hinder rulers to punish such as are hardly knowne to be guilty , we should not so much as rebuke one another , til the day of judgement , for there is danger in sinning , if we rebuk an innocent man in liew of a guilty mā or that the magistrate kil an innocent man inplace of a murtherer , for the danger in sinning in the least , is as good ground of abstaining from a duty , as in sining in the greatest , and therfore this new poynt of divinity , that the magistrate should punish no false prophets or seducers , but let them al grow til the day of judgment , for fear that he punish or put to death a faithfull teacher in liew of a false seducer , as luther following some of the fathers teacheth , is so farre from being in this text , that it is not a truth contained in al the old or new testament . yea , it is openly false , for then should wee not avoyd and turne away from idolaters and hereticks contrary to cor. ● . . tit. . . rom. . . but live and converse with them to the end of the world , because we may take some to bee hereticks who are no such thing , but sounde in the faith then our selves shew me a warrant for such an untruth , that wee are to doe no duties till the day of judgement , for feare of sinfull miscarriages in the manner of doing them . by the tares , christ understands all the children of the devil , ver . . and those are the tares gathered and burnt in the fire , ver . . all things that offend , and they which doe iniquity , ver . . that shall be casten into a furnace of fire , where there shal be wailing and gnashing of teeth . . and they are such as are opposed to the righteous , who shall shine 〈◊〉 the sunne in the kingdom of their father . now . the righteous that shall shine in heaven , are not the sonnd in the faith , only opposed to hereticks , except we say none shall be casten in the furnace but hereticks . . hereticks are innocent men ( say libertines ) and not doers of iniquity , as the ●ares are called , v. . . nor are hereticks the only children of the devill , ver . . and the ill seede sowne by the envious man ; and the onely seede of sathan , if the field bee the church , if wee would beleeve libertines , as it is not , but exponed by one saviour to be the world , ver . . yet the false teachers would be but the least part of the visible church , in comparison of the ignorants , the atheists , the murtherers , adulterers , and so not able to come up to compleate the visible church as a company of good and bad , that is , of hereticks and true teachers , for these would not make the quarter of the church , yet christ makes all the church of wheate and tares . since the tares are all that worke iniquity , it shall follow that the magistrate , by expresse command of god , is to suffer all the children of the wicked one , and all that worke iniquity , all adulterers , sorcerers , paricides , murtherers , perjured persons , traytors , robbers , theeves , and all evill doers punishable by the magistrate ( for sure all these as wel as hereticks , are such as offend and work in iniquity in this kingdom ) to grow and live till the end of the world , then sure the magistrate may goe hunt goats and hang up his sword . if we sift every graine of the text , we must say that the magistrate makes a doubt , lord , shall i draw the sword against bloody men and traytors ? and the pastors and church , shal we cast out the leaven that leaveneth the whole lumpe ? and how carnall must they imagine the lord to be , who first went on a way of forcing the consciences of men , and converting men by the bloody sword , & rooted out wheate & tares in the old testament , and now is become a little more just and meek , and will have the consciences of none to bee forced , but all to grow to harvest ? whereas the rulers and pastors make no such question ; but the godly wonder at a providence in god , not in magistrates , that good and il should grow together . but god rebukes mens carnall ●eale that murmure at his longanimity , that he throwes not all the wicked in hell fire , long before the harvest , and burns not chaffe ere ever it grow to blade ; and makes not harvest , ere summer be well begun . the danger that libertines phancy to be in killing hereticks , is the taking them away being elect , before they be converted , which is as strong against divine providence , that appoints the magistrate to kill the murtherer without respect of persons , not considering whether he be converted ye● or not , to doe justice is the magistrates duty , election and reprobation , are secrets that belong to the lord. nor doth min●● celsus promo●● their cause by saying , the tares must signifie false doctrine , as in the f●rmer parable ▪ an which this depends , the seed is the word of god , and christ was sent in preach the gospell , heb. . . to tell us all things , john . ● . a guide and leader of the people , the councellor , esay . . in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , col. . . christ was no law-giver , and when he speaketh of the conversations of men and their manners , that is not from his cheif office , which is to be a prophet , then ill seed must be bad doctrine . answ . reduce this to an argument and it shall runne madde . . what the seed signifies in the former parable , that it signifies here . i deny the proposition , the scopes of the parable are different . in the former the ground is the heart of men , but here the ground is the world. . in the former , christ expones the seede to be the word : here hee expones it to bee the children of the kingdome , and of the wicked one . . in the former there are not two seedes , good and ill , and two births , but rather foure , the wayside-men , the thorny-men , the rocky-men , the good and fruiteful-hearers , and here there be but two seeds , the seed of wheate and of tares . . the scope of the former is to show who heare fruitfully the gospel , who not , this hath no such scope , but to compose our rashnesse in quarrelling with god that he suffers the wicked to have the benefit of the soyle , hedge , sunne , raine , dew , with the godly , and to live untill harvest . he saith , that which was christs principall worke , the preaching of the word of the kingdome , that must be meant here by the seed , and wheate . it is a false proposition , and a connexion of hay and sand . . christ came to save the lost , to give his life a ransome for many . ergo , by this argument the good seed should hold forth the redeemed of god. . the assumption is false , to wit , that christ came to be a king , yea , and as principally to be a priest , to offer himself for the sinnes of the world , to give his life for his sheep , and goates must rather be meant by wheat and tares then any other thing . by this argument christ should propons no parables , but all must aime at good seed and doctrine , what say we then of the parable of the five talents ? the theefe in the night ? of the letting out of the vineyard to those that killed the serv●●ts , and the heire , and brought forth ill fruite ? and many other parables respecting our christian conversation , and sober and vigilant walking , rather then the doctrine of the gospell , though that bee the rule of all christian walking . and ( saith he ) by our sense , if the tares signifie all wicked men , then must all robbers and murtherers escape the bands of the magistrate , for the lord bids , let them grow till the harvest , answ . then must no blasphemer , not a julian , nor any that should teach there is no god , ●ee rooted out of the church and state , for we say pulling up is not necessary to be meant precizely of killing , but rather of any punishing . that , let them grow till the harvest , ( say we ) is neither a charge nor a command given to magistrate or church , touching censures to bee inflicted by men : for christ expones no where , let them grow , to any such meaning , libertines yeeld that sense , and calvin undeniably inferres by this all censures of magistrate or pastors are cut off and casten over till the day of judgement , both the word in rebuking or excommunicating , and so ecclesiasticall plucking up , and the sword must go and sleepe : but the sense of [ let them grow ] is , why doe ye quarrell at the wisdome and providence of the lord of the field , that he suffers the children of the devill to flourish ? and whereas the servants say , . wilt thou then that we go and ●ather them up ? it is a parable , and this part not being exponed can yeeld no new doctrine , and the most can be , is , lord give us a providence of our owne , and a power not to leave one son of that wicked one in the earth ( & we shal make a clean field to our lord ) rather then suffer them thus to suffocate and corrupt the wheat . the lords answer is , i have ordained rather then such a providence be committed to you , that the ●ares should grow till harvest ; though the lord have appointed a way how to purge leaven out of the church , cor. . . mat. ● . , . and how evill doers shal be ●ut off , rom. . though not in so strict and accurate a way as we dreame , who would not have one thistle in our lords field . yea , would not suffer one sin to be in the world ( as wee dreame ) if we could hinder it , though god seeth a permitting providence to be more glorious . but ( saith celsus ) if the lord understand by tares , thefts , adulteries , robberies , extortion , he would not have used the metaphor of tares , but of briars , thornes , nettles , hemlocks , or the like , th●● are easily discerned from wheat whereas tares are like wheat . answ . wee will not take on us to teach our saviour to speake , we answer , the lord understands , whatever wickednesse cannot be punished without ●●rt to the godly , and that hereticks and idolaters may be knowne by ordinary christians , as well as robbers and theeves , by magistrates , the holy ghost teacheth when he hiddeth us not eat with them , but reject and avoid them , and judge them accursed , gal. . . cor. . . and forbiddeth us to receive them into our house , tit. . . jo● . . now if they cannot bee discerned , he should bid us eat , converse with them ▪ lodge them ▪ blesse them , till the harvest come ▪ and also theeves and robbers are as undiscernable under the notion of theeves , so are murtherers , adulterers , plotters of treason ; for all these have such shifts and coverings , that it is hard for the judge to plucke them up , and as hard in the matter of fact , and more , then to know who are heretickes : now heresie is knowne to be a worke of the flesh , no lesse then witchcraft , but to finde out who is the hereticke and what is heresie , the holy ghost supposeth it to be feazeable , else he could not bid us avoid them , and judge them accursed , but by this exposition , because there is danger , that we judge them ▪ accursed whom god hath blessed , private christians should no more judge them cursed the● publicke magistrates , but both should lodge them in their hearts , in the state , in their houses , blesse them till the harvest . yea and minus celsus , and other libertines speake against the holy ghost , so why shall ye judge a false teacher , and a hereticke to be accursed ▪ should you reject and avoid him , and deny him lodging ▪ for he is not a thiefe , a robber , or a murtherer ▪ nor sinnes he against the light of nature , nor is he seduced by sathan , but to be pitied , yea he is innocent and godly , and so pious , that ere he sinne against the word and his owne conscience , he had rather be forsaken cast out of our houses ▪ and so not to be rebuked , contrary to tit. ● . . celsus , by plucking up must be meant killing as an her be withers , when plucked up by the roots , but when one is excommunicated , bee dyes not . answ . plucking up is a metaphor , and when an hereticke is pulled out of the gates and courts of the lords house , the church of god ▪ and casten out of the society of the godly , and cursed by them , gal. . . and they pray against him , and in faith avoid him , and ●●l fellowship with him , hee must ecclesiastically dye and wither ( if gods ordinance be not blessed to recover him ) and plucking up is as well a removing of him out of that condition and place , as any other thing . by the field , christ understands the world . celsus saith , the whole is put for the part , the world in which that seed of the word of the gospel is sowne , and that is the church , for the gospel is but heard in a small part of the world . but when did christ sow the good seed of the gospel first ? happily when christ himselfe first preached the gospel : or rather when the old impostor sathan first dece●●ed our first parents , but if so , then the serpent did not immediately after ●ow tares , for they were long agoe sowne , and the ●eed was then growne into range growing corne , and there was no need of his ●owing , but of his further manuring of it , but this seed is sowne , with every new act of preaching of the gospel : so this parable cannot agree to the parable of the draw-net , in which there be both good and ill fish ; now good and ill fish had their first breeding in the water , since the beginning : not agreeth it , for the same cause , with the parable of wheat and cha●●e , which hath ever been in the world , whereas the tares are sowne upon a new occasion of preaching the gospel . answ . there be nothing here but vain and forced conjectures , christ expounds the wheat of the children of the kingdome . celsus of the doctrine of the gospel christ makes the field the world celsus makes the field the church , and when he hath fancied these dreames , contrary to christs exposition , he goes to the time , when the gospel was first preached ; which hath nothing to doe with the text ; for when god made men good , sathan came and sowed tares , and corrupted men , and turned them into apostates from god. and ever , since the beginning in the world , there hath been a mixture of cha●●e and corne , fishes good and bad , and of the children of god and children of sathan , and the saints must let both grow till harvest , that is , they must not stumble nor murmure at god , but submit to his wisdome , who will have this mixture till the last separation of men for heaven , and the barne of the great husbandman , for hell and the furnace , in which all things that offend are casten . . for the time of sowing wheat and tares , it hath beene from the beginning since there was a field , that is a world , and the parable that speakes of sowing wheat , and the envious mans sowing of tares immediately after , is but borrowed from men , as the sleeping of a husbandman , which may as soone prove , that he that watcheth over israel doth both slumber and sleep , and that the sowing of tares , and of the sonnes of sathan in the world , is as much without the foreknowledge , counsell , and providence of god , as the husbandman is ignorant of his enemies sowing of tares in his field , when he is in a deep sleep as it may ( if all the joynts of the text be thus squeezed to blood ) it can prove that hereticks are to be tollerated , and that onely tares are sowne , when the husbandman sleeps , in regard that sathan sowes wicked men and corrupteth them , beside and against the decree and irresistible will of god , nor does the text beare that with every new sowing of wheat , there goeth the immediate sowing of heresies and tares , which though it may have a truth in it , yet it hath no ground from this text , and celsus shall never prove it , nor any libertine for him . celsus , if long agoe the city into which a false prophet fled was to be burnt with fire , cattle , and all , and if angels killed many thousands at once , why doth not god by angels now kill many , and destroy them , city and cattle ? and if sinnes under the gospel be more hainous , and god not a whit meeker to sinners under the gospel , then under the law , and if the punishment of the magistrate must grow , as the sins grow more hainous , why ? then as false prophets were but stoned of old , papists and others doe , well to burne them quicke with a slow fire , for the more light and grace we have under the gospel , the more ●ainous the sinne is , and the punishment must be more then death now , else christs death hath made god milder , not to men , but more severe , and only meeker toward the walls of the towne ; the cattle , the spoyle . answ . if a becold flye to munster , and gather a number of robbers in to him , and upon pretext of conscience kill and destroy , and if that city will joyne with him , and defend such bloody hereticks , we thinke under the new testament sadder punishment is due to him , because the sinne is more hainous , and the false prophet so flying to a city , is not onely a false prophet , but a publicke robbing murtherer . and the punishment should be greater as the lord augments punishment for greater sinnes , as is cleare , heb. . , . so should his deputy the magistrate doe , and no doubt , the lord slayeth millions of more , with the destroying angel , of both pestilence and sword now ( as manifestly never such documents of saddest divine vengeance was seen on a city in the old testament , as was to be seen in the city of jerusalem ) by the sword of titus vespasian , because they had slaine the heire christ ; but papists burning of men quicke , because they adhere to the truth of christ proves nothing , and we thinke a julian now deserves a rougher death at the hands of men then any seducer or blasphemer under the old testament , and how ever , men with their wit thinke servetus got more then heaped justice , because he was burnt for probabilities and nicities . i doubt not but men void of the zeal of god , if they had lived when the sonne of the aegyptian was stoned , and baals priests , and the idolaters , exod. . ( who both acknowledged jehovah that brought them out of aegypt , and the scriptures and ten commandements ) which then were killed , would say the same , and many did say the same very thing of these , that they say now of wicked servetus , but they but judge of sinne , and measure divine justice with their owne yard . . god was severer then , in some laws , to things , and to men also , as in commanding the cattle , and women with childe to be put to the edge of the sword , because he would both give a document of morall justice for our imitation , and of typicalnesse of justice , for our instruction ; but in the kinde of morall justice ( for all typicalnesse is now ceased ) the lord is severer under the gospell , then under the law , as is evident , mal. . , . heb. . , . luk. . , , . and no lesse jealous of his owne glory now then at that time , and his wrath rages against walls , and houses , and senselesse creatures more now then at that time , see what desolation he hath wrought in ireland , what eating of horses , of infants , and of killed souldiers , hath beene in that land , and in germany ? and what vengeance shall lye upon the stones , fields , of romish babylon ? and this shall be done by lawfull magistrates , kings , and others , rev. . , , , , . god did then deale more rigidly with a people whom hee purposed to compell to flye to christ . but that his mercy ebbes or flowes , increaseth or decreaseth with the moone , is new divinity . and it is true , god was more severe under the old testament in regard of typicall severity , commanded by god to magistrates , as to saul , to kill the amal●kites , women and sucking children , but in regard of justice inflicted by himselfe , the impression of hell is more to be seen in destroying townes that have been swallowed up by earthquake , men , women and children in extremity of famine , pestilence and bloody warres now , then under the old testament . and cleare it is , as in this parable , the lord will not have us to murmure , that the godly and wicked grow together , so he will have us to know there cannot be an exact purging of the visible church untill the day of judgement come . acontius , and celsus answer . but so hee forbids to purge the church universall , but if men shall be so diligent in purging all particular churches , what else should they doe but contravene the command of god , who forbids to plucke up the tares ? . the lord forbids the plucking up , in either universall or particular churches , because this is a generall command , let them grow till harvest . answ . we constantly deny that ( let them grow ) is a command at all , but only an inhibition to us that we quarrell not with god who suffers them to grow , and yet it follows not that magistrates and pastors sinne in doing their duty so farre to plucke them out , as the wheat be not also plucked up ; for as we are not to fret and impatiently grudge at the permissive will and providence of god , in that he permits tares to grow , so we may , without sin , both pray the contrary of that which the permissive will ordaines to be done , and labour to doe the contrary , and yet not sin , the disciples were not to grudge and fret at that decree of god , when they heard christ say , i will smite the shepheard , and the sheep of the flocke shall be scattered , yet were they to pray the contrary , as christ commanded them , that they might not be led into temptation , and that they might never fulfill that permissive will of god in being scandalized at his suffering , and in leaving and forsaking their lord and master and denying him , when it was their duty not to be scattered , and not to forsake him out of feare , but to confesse and give a testimony before men . upon the same ground magistrates and pastors should do their duty , not to suffer all the tares still to grow among the wheat , and not to permit wicked men to blaspheme , murther , betray , and destroy the saints , and the innocent among which they live , but according to their places they are to punish , and hinder and impede the growing of tares , but withall they are not impatiently to grudge and censure providence , but to let them alone , that is , to let god alone , and suffer him in that admirable disposall of affaires though wicked men be not fully purged out of church and state till harvest , and here is an argument to me that by the tares , christ must not meane corrupt doctrines , but wicked men , for it is a frigid and vaine interpretation to ascribe to our saviour , such a sense that he must suffer heresies , till the harvest , and when the harvest is come , hee must send his angells to gather heresies , and binde them in a bundle and cast them into hell , and so must he gather sound doctrines , upon the same ground , and send them to heaven , whereas the words clearly beare that they be persons that doe offend and worke inquity that the lord thus judgeth at the end of the world ; nor is the conceit of celsus of worth that by a figure he understands by tares hereticks that are horne of corrupt doctrine ; for then celsus shall first have no ground from the former parable to expound the seed to be the word , and the tares to be corrupt doctrine , for then these words a certaine s●wer went to sow seed , and as he sowed some fell by the side , must have this sense , if celsus make this parable to agree with that in the signification of the word seed , that the preacher of the gospel went forth to sow seed , that is to sow true and false teachers , and some seed , that is some false teachers fell upon the 〈◊〉 side , &c. which is non-sense . it is against the justice of god , that hereticks , since they but simply erre , and are innocent , holy , and so feare god , that they had rather suffer torment and burning quicke , and are commiseratione digni ( as say the belgick arminians , celsus , and other libertines ) should be for meer innocency and godlinesse gathered by the angels , in the harvest of the world , and casten into the fire and furnace of everlasting vengeance : i grant out of imitation of the fathers , and particularly of augustine , who retracted his opinion touching hereticks , and the coercing of them : divines use this expression , hereseon zizania , tares of heresie , but aluding to , rather then expounding the parable . celsus fol. . magistrates correcting faults , doe not purge the church of tares , but punish the hai●ous crimes of wicked men , and though ill doers repent and confesse their errour , yet the magistrates doe punish , but if hereticks abjure their false doctrine , the magistrate pardons them . answ . nor do we expound the field to be the church , with celsus , but like better to follow our saviour who expoundeth it to be the world , and so the magistrates punisheth societies . nor is it inconvenient that the churches nurse-father purge the church in a politick way , as his place may bear . it is true , some crimes as murther , the magistrates punish with death , and is to accept of no satisfaction , num. . . . because the taking away lif● it among things that cannot be repaired , but it is not universally true in all cases , that the magistrate is not to forgive , if the guilty man repent . and though we could not determin that case of conscience , whether the magistrate should punish a blasphemer and a false teacher if he repent , yet it follows not that he should not be punished who willfully goes on . and the reason why hereticks repenting , are to be pardoned by the magistrates , is , because obstinatious persisting in an heresies , makes a man an heretick punishable by death , but if a blasphemer have perverted many soules , and have presumptuously dishonoured the majesty of god , to me , it is a question if the magistrates ought to pardon him , and though he be not put to death , it is sure he ought by the magistrate to be punished , which is the thing we prove now . celsus , tares may bee turned into wheat , and converted ; if the man bee killed hee is gone and past recovery . hereticks doth no ill , but good to the wheate , hee lives , saith augustine , that either hee may repent , or that a good man may bee exercised by him . some say , variety of opinions in religion are expressions of divine wisdome . answ . a murtherer may be converted , as well as a heretick , and is nearer conversion then a man of a corrupt mind , and a heretick that is to be rejected , and no more taught and admonished , as concerning the faith , he is reprobate , tit. . . tim. . . nor doth he good to a beleever , but as a gangreene and a pest to a wholesome body . and if he doe good , and be an expression of the wisdome of god by being an heretick , why is he as chaffe casten in unquenchable fire ? as libertines expound the parable . if he should live that he may exercise the faith and patience of the saints , then should not the kings of the earth burne the flesh of the whore , nor the magistrate take vengeance on murtherers , for the faith and patience of the saints is seen in their oppressions , but no thanks to oppressors if hereticks must not be killed , why did mu●cer , becold and our anabaptists now in armes and having no enemy , kill all the godly , because they judge them wicked , should they not be letter grow till the last harvest also ? chap. xxi . of the samaritans , and of no compelling of heathens . how the covenant bindeth us . libertines alledge , luke ▪ . , , . &c. when christ by a village of the samaritans , was rejected and denied lodging , james and john say , lord , wilt thou that we command 〈◊〉 come downe from heaven , and consume them , even as 〈◊〉 did ? but christ rebuked them and said , yee know not what manner of spirit yee are of ? for the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . then are we to spare the lives of those that refuse the true and sound doctrine of the gospel , yea who oppugne it , and to admonish them ; celsus saith , this example is not proposed to compare the samaritans with hereticks , or the apostles with the ministers and the magistrate , but that the benigne and meeke engine of christ , in matters of religion , may be cleare , and that we should abhorre cruelty , in matters of religion , for if the apostles had moved the same question touching heretickes at that time , christ would have given the same answer . the holland arminians say , if christ suffered not his disciples to conceive a desire of revenge from heaven from the onely love and zeale of religion against the samaritans that denyed lodging to him , farre lesse must we beleeve that he will suffer , that in matters of religion , for meere conscience any manifest violence should be exercised ; for christ saith , the spirit that leads you is raging , vehement , fiery , the spirit of my disciples is not so . . your spirit seeks to destroy lives , out of a zeale for religion , the spirit of the son of man is for saving , not for destroying of mens lives . and this generall answer of christ forbids all cruelty in the matters of religion , saith celsus . answ . first , the libertines must prove from this , that the disciples made religion the quarrell , why they would have the samaritans burnt , and not an inhumane fact of denying against the law of nature , an act of hospitality to strangers , and that because of the envy between the jews and samaritans , christ seeming to grace jerusalem , with his presence , then the samaritans have had a high esteem of christ , & were offended that so mighty a prophet should visit their hatefull enemies this was an act of envy rather then an heterodoxy in the faith , or opposing the doctrin of the gospel . . the samaritans were yet in their idolatry and utterly ignorant of the gospel : now we had never a question with libertines , whether the first thing to be done to such as will not admit christ or his messengers within their houses ; & for the first act of refusing to hear the gospel , before they be instructed , we are to call for the magistrates sword to kill them , or for fire from heaven to destroy them ? we think no : we should thinke this no way of god to convert them ( wee plainly say ) it is not lawfull to us to goe with fire and sword , to force the indians , samaritans , or any heathen to embrace the christian faith , the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , if they be within our power , we may restraine them , . from spreading their blaspemies to hurt and seduce the soules of the people of god. . we may hinder them from reproaching god or his son christ in the hearing of the people of god ▪ as david fought against goliah , who blasph●med the 〈◊〉 god. . if they do nationall injuries , and acts of hostility , we may raise armes against them , and in these warres in case of subduing , we may intend the propagating of the gospel to them , as the master is to command and teach his servants , gen. . . deut. . , . so the victors having made the subdued people their servants , doe now acquire some masterly power over them to see them instructed in the knowledge of the true god. nor is the intention of overcomming in a lawfull warre , the more unlawfull , but rather more spirituallized by the accession of a spirituall intention to doe good to their soules , whether wee may by force take their children from them , and train them up in the christian religion , is disputable , since their condition of being subdued denudes them not of the naturall relation of fathers to sonnes , or because in so robbing them of their children , we should but spoyle them of the actuall abuse of that paternall right , which is now conveyed to runne in a right channell , to traine up young ones in a right way , whereas their parents would imploy it to a wrong end , it would seeme no violence to the soules of young ones , since nothing is done , but by gracious education and instruction . . if they joyne with us in one religious covenant , and we sweare with our lives and goods to defend one another , we may cause them stand to the oath of god they were under . as asa compelled not onely judah but those of israel that fell in to him , to stand to the oath ; for the covenant , when it is mutuall , giveth a reciprocation of rights to each kingdome over the other , for if he that makes a promise to another , much more he that sweares a covenant to another , makes over a right to the other , to plead for the fulfilling thereof , omnis qui promittit facit jus alteri , cui est facta promissio , ad requirendam promissi implectionem . this is cleare in the king● covenanting at his coronation with his people , and the people with the king , in the compacts between the master and the hired servant , between two merchant● ; if thi● were not , the nerves of all societies , and lawfull confederations between man and man , nation and nation should bee broken . . omne promissum cadit in debitum , promise becomes debt , and so doth a covenant . but before i say more of compulsion of heathen , that are without . a word to the wise of forcing within , and of the covenant , endeavouring of uniformity , not the prelaticall in ceremonies and canonicall obedience , which familists impute to the covenant , but scripturall uniformity in the same faith and forme of wholesome words , and externall worship and ordering of it , which is not indifferent , as libertines and familists , who in this are brethren against presbyterians , the authors of their breathing in england , ( but we intended good to men , not to sects ) endeavouring of nearest uniformity in the three kingdomes , which we did sweare is contrary to actuall tollerating of all sects and religions , but the sectaries endeavour the latter , and have compassed it , ergo , the sectaries are gone contrary to their oath and covenant . the proposition is evident setting up of all sects and religions by a law-tolleration , is an endeavouring , yea and actuall erecting of the widest multiformity that is , yea but the ordinance provides against antitrinitarians , socinians , papists . answ . there is no provision against them , papists will say amen to tollerate them . . there is no provision made to try socinians and papists whether they be such or no , but the old way of trying them by the law removed , and no new one established , then are they the same way tollerated , that the familists , aminomians , arminians , libertines , enthysiasts , antiscripturists , sceptists , seekers , are tollerated , who all will acquiesce to the ordinance , as i conceive , and within these few yeares would have rejoyced at lesse then the halfe of it . a certaine author hath written a treatise called ancient bonds , in which there is little antiquity , lesse 〈◊〉 , no impartiality , much ignorance , for he neither doth , nor can so much as state the question . and he faith . we are to endeavour reformation of religion in the three kingdomes not simply , but according to the word of god , the only patterne and regulation of the best reformed churches , and of us , we clip the covenant of these words . answ . the word of god ( say the familists in their petition to king james an . . ) as we understand it . so as libertines understand it , and according to their conscience , so the jewes would sweare to endeavour a reformation according to the word of god in the old testament , as they understand it , and the papists according to the word of god , as they understand it , to written and not written , and will the author dare to looke god or men in the face ▪ and say the words , according to the word of god , is according as every covenanter understands the word of god , the prelaticall man , the socinian , arrian , familist , antinomian , seeker , separatist , antiscripturist , antitrinitarian , arminian ? for all these did take the covenant ( if we speake de genere singulorum ) or did those that took the covenant speak or meane that tolleration of all these sects and reformation , and nearest uniformity can consist , or that he , and all these had this sense under-hand of these words ( according to the word of god ) that is , as socinians , libertines , familists , antinomians , &c. expound the word of god ? if so , we must justifie the jesuits equivocation , and their oaths with mentall reservation , for the sense of prelaticall men , and of those that goe for heretickes and schismatickes now as then , to wit , socinians , libertines , arrians , familists , and the rest were knowne heretickes , and schismatickes , and their socinian , arrian , familisticall , &c. sense of the word of god , was excluded in the second article of the covenant in these words , we shall — endeavour the extirpation of popery , prelacy — superstition , heresie , schisme , &c. by this jesuiticall sense , we all sweare we shall endeavour to be perjured , and to reforme each mans religion according to his owne sense of the word , and whereas in former times it was beleeved that christ was god-man . we familists sweare to reforme religion in the three kingdomes in that part , and to teach and professe , that every saint is so godded , and christed , that there is as much of the fulnesse of the godhead dwelling in every saint as in christ ; so that there be as many saints ▪ as many christs , and as many gods manifested in the flesh , as there be saints , for since liberty of conscience was then not professed , and was a point holden by no reformed church , yea not by the church of new england , the best reformed church ( as this man saith ) but detested by all , it was presupposed that the true sense of the word of god was against it , and independents who then did sweare the covenant knew our minde , and did sweare the preservation of the reformed religion in the church of scotland in doctrine , worship and discipline against the common enemy , and they knew presbyteriall government approves both of the censures of the church and of the magistrates sword against heretickes , and therefore turkes and pagans would never have sworne a covenant to endeavour uniformity in one religion according to the word of god , and after petition the parliament to set up in england the widest multiformity that sathan can devise , and say they have sworne to endeavour the nearest uniformity in religion , and yet to preach and print , and endeavour by the same covenant , and the word of god the rule of sworne reformation , the widest multiformity , and that the lord should be one , and his name one in both kingdomes , and yet that the lord be two , or ten , and his name , that is , the maners and kinds of religions be two and twenty , that gods name may be divided amongst socinians , arrians , familists , antinomians , anabaptists , seekers , antiscripturists , libertines , scepticks , enthysiasts , brownists , independents● this is worse then a popish implicit faith , which we disclaim . the other thing ( saith he ) left out , which yet referres to all , the covenant is , that hee that sweares shall by all lawfull wayes and meanes , and according to his place and calling endeavour to performe the covenant , v. . to bring the churches to uniformity , and to extirpate heresie . as for instance , it is the godly magistrates duty , their place and calling , to send forth ministers to the darke places of the land , and to set up lights to guide mens feet into the wayes of truth and peace , and reclaime them from errors : and he cannot be urged upon his calling to punish or compell gainesayers . and the minister is to doe it in his place by exhorting , rebuking , instructing , but he is to goe no further , he is not to deliver men up to judge , and be an executioner . answ . the words by all lawfull meanes and wayes , which this man puts in italian letters , and says are left out by the authour , whom he refutes , may soon be left out , for they were never in the covenant . the man will defend the covenant , and apparently hath sworne it , but i thinke he hath scarce read it , for these words are not in the covenant , let him read againe . turpe est doctori cum culpa redarnit ipsum . he sweares to bring the churches to nearest uniformity according to his place , but when this man defends the tolleration of all the sects in england , socinians , arians , familists , for he writing anno when above twenty sundry religions in england came to the streets , he excepts not one in all his treatise , but calls them all the godly party , saints , brethren , the godly , and ownes them so , in his preface and whole booke . he must grant there is no uniformity in faith , discipline , worship , by the word of god , for if all these be saints , godly , and holy brethren , they have all one faith , and are saved , but let him tell me , by the next , if he can answer , whether there is a nearest , or any uniformity in faith , worship and government , betweene presbyterians and socinians , familists , antinomians , and seekers , yet this man sweares to indeavour the nearest conjunction and uniformity amongst all the saints who are to be tollerated , but let him say , if he hath , in this case ingenuity or learning , what nearest uniformity hee knowes amongst all these , whether the covenant should not obliege a libertine to indeavour the widest contrariety and deformity of religious amongst these , and to plead for forbearance of them all as he expoundeth it . but wee are ( saith he ) to indeavour by all lawfull meanes and wayes , the nearest uniformity among the churches , and the onely lawfull way , as he thinks is not by force , but by rebuking , instructing , exhorting , and by no weapons , but onely by the word of god. but since this authour and all the nation of libertines goe upon this principle , religion is not to be compelled by force , for we are not infallible , and those whom we force as hereticks may be no hereticks , for ought we know , but as sound in the faith as our selves . then we have no faith , nor any well-grounded perswasion of the word of god , to refute them by the word ; and we refute them not of faith , but sinfully and erroniously , for they may be as sound in the faith , as we our selves , for ought wee know , and this is a strong argument against morall wayes of gaining hereticks by the power of the word , for if they may be sound in the faith , and we the hereticks , though we refute them by the word , we may be perverting the right wayes of god , and ●ight against christ , as elim●s : for eli●●s onely by morall wayes , not by force or violence laboured to pervert the faith of sergius paulus , and it is not apparent that elimas was perswaded in his conscience , that the gospel paul preached was the truth of god , and so by no meanes , lawfull or unlawfull , by force , or by the word of god , are we to indeavour uniformity , for our indeavouring is not of faith , nor from the real grounds of the word , but from meere opinions and conjectures , for it may be ( say libertines ) that all those whom wee refute as hereticks , be sound in the faith , and we , not they the hereticks , and those whom we refute , are as much oblieged in faith to refute us , as we to refute them . so i see not how libertines can use so much as morall compelling of hereticks . for . they cannot compell them with the sword to forsake their heresies , because the sword bearer being fallible knoweth them not to be heresies , they may be necessary truths for him . ergo , because the pastor is no more infallible then the magistrate , the pastor with certainty of faith cannot say , thus saith the lord. jezabel is a false prophetesse , hymaeneus and phyletus depart from the faith , for jezabel , hemaeneus and philetus may be sound in the faith , and this pastor , who refuteth them , the false heretick , for there is no peremptory and imposing decision of any of these , till the last judgement , since now the infallible prophets and apostles are dead . upon this ground , yee cannot eschew any as a heretick after twise admonishing him of his here●ie , for ye have no faith , nor divine certainty , it is an heresie that he holdeth , it m●y be you who admonish him are the heretick : only upon opinion you admonish him . , you cannot rebuke any heretick sharpely , that hee may be sound in the faith , for you are not infallible in the bestowing of the lashings of your tongue on a heretick , more then the magistrate in beating him with the sword , and your rebuking of him , may be heretical and unjust , and he the man sound in the saith . . upon the same ground you cannot admonish and instruct him in faith . nor , . call the opinion of the magistrates coercing of men with the sword for their conscience , a bloody tenet and persecution of the saints . nor , . can you in faith refuse him lodging in your house , and all your . saying in the pulpit , such a way of familisme is a way of heresie , is not resolved in , thus saith the lord , by such a preacher , but such a preacher so thinketh , possibly phancies , that the lord sayth such a way is heresie . and by the same reason what ever pastors preach , especially except it be two or three fundamentalls which all christians , papists , socinians , lutherans , protestants , familists , arminians , seekers , &c. is but the dictates of their own conscience , and so they preach , so they beleeve , and so they professe not , because god so saith , but because their conscience so dictates to them . and here is the libertines creed , me thinks christ died for sinners , the dead shall be raised , &c. and so libertines are very papists in this , and resolve our faith into the testimony of men , the conjectures of the conscience . so he goes on ; hee expounds uniformity and nearest conjunction , to be absolute conjunction and identitie . if we be agreed of the same church officers with the reformed churches , and have cast out the old vsurpers , cashiered the common-prayer booke , ceremonies , alters , crucifixes ( all which we have don by the covenant ) do we not save our covenant , though we cast not our churches into such classicall provinciall , or nationall formes . answ . nor do we plead for absolute identitie in doctrine , and worship , but indeavour it we ought . but how i pray you doth the magistrate ( for that i had almost forgot ) send ministers to rebuke , exhort and reclaime men from their errors , but not compel gainesayers ? the magistrate ( i am sure ) sent not paul and barnabas ; it was not so from the begining , in the apostilick church there were no parliament-ministers . but it may be the authour meanes a politicall civill sending of ministers to extirpate heresies . but be it so , all magistraticall sending of magistrates is a commanding of them by the sword in a compulsive way , that they goe preach against familisme , socinianisme , arrianisme . but if so , good sir remember your selfe , the magistrate , as the magistrate doth not request , and morally by the power of the word ( for he hath not any such spirituall armour , i conceive , for his warfare ) intreat , and say , good pastors , i beseech you go preach against del , randal , saltmarsh and other familists , and extirpate their heresies ; private men so send pastors , but as a magistrate he must say , i command you goe preach against these heresies , under the paine of bearing the vengeance of my sword , now if the pastors reply , good master judge , we cannot doe that , for we think familisme a new glorious discovery of spirit , and mr. saltmarsh hath beaten out of the scriptures , new sparkles of glory and flowings of free grace , familisme is no heresie . if the magistrate notwithstanding by his place and calling send these , and command them to goe and extirpate familisme , doth he not compell the consciences of these pastors he sends ? what doe ye then talke of no compelling ? for what ever the magistrate by his place doth command which is lawfull , if ministers or any other refuse to obey , he may use the sword against them . ye cannot say , if it be a matter of conscience he cannot compell them to doe it by his place : then ( say i ) by his place hee cannot command them neither . beside that , this answer is , directly against the words of the covenant , if every man in like manner . art. . be to endeavour the extirpation of popery , prelacy , heresie and schisme , in his severall places and calings , as the author saith , this referres to the whole obligation of each person respectively . then is the magistrate according to his place and calling , which is to beare the sword , to compell with the sword , the extirpation of popery , prelacy , heresie and schisme , and what hath the author gained by this glosse , which i conceive is the true glosse ? except he mean the magistrate , as the magistrate should lay aside his sword and fall to prayers , requests , obtestations , that hereticks would lay aside their errours and preach sound doctrine , but now he doth so pray and request , not according to his place , as a magistrate , but according to his vocation as a saint and a christian , which yet crosses the covenant , and makes the parliament not as the supream court of judges to take the covenant , but as so many private christians . if so , the judges are not in their respective places to take the covenant , nor endeavour the extirpation of heresie , because that is against the word of god , but then by what authority or calling did the parliament cast out old vsurpers , the prelates , casheire the service booke , ceremonies , alters and crucifixes ? either as a parliament , and so by the sword : is not here yet the prelates conscience squeezed to the blood ? is not here highest violence done to the consciences of high alter men and adorers of crucifixes ? why to them more then to famili●s ? but if this was done by reque●● , and word● of butter and oyl from the parliament and committee-men , then are ordinances of parliament but meer requests to the subjects . but it is protestatio con●raria facto . he addeth , if these words ( we shall endeavour the extirpation of schisme , and whatsoever shal be found contrary to ●ound doctrine , &c. ) be levelled onely against the congregational men , it was not fa●re to draw them into a covenant to destroy themselves . it s disservice to the state , to spoyle the state of so many godly and brave men , and seemes to be but the birth of that challenge against these men ( to bee the sanballets and tobia's of this present worke ) and is the highest breach of love . answ . it is apparent the congregationall men he meaneth are the independents , who would have their churches gathered out of true churches . who will not be called schismaticks , as if ensis and gladius were not one thing , then this author levelled these words against presbyterians , as the schismaticks , for where ever one church is rent from another true church , one of the two is the schismatick church ; sure but the author will not have independents the schismaticks , then was it faire to levell these words in the covenant against presbyterians , and draw them in a covenant to destroy both their soule and body ? the congregationall men were not drawne , but they came to another kingdome with faire words to draw presbyterians in a covenant , and said , and swore to indeavour uniformity , and yet practise this day multiformity of religions and have put to the saile , the blood of many gallant men in scotland , that so they may buy with their lives , cursed liberty of conscience . but will it not be bitternesse in the end ? . the author hints at a story that fell out in the assembly of divines where i was witnesse , mr. phi. nye having sworne to endeavour the preservation of presbyterian government in the covenant , was pleased in the face of the assembly in the hearing of that renowned generall of england , for the time , the earle of essex , and many other honourable and noble persons , to declaime against presbyteriall government , as formidable to states and free kingdomes , as of old some called jerusalem the rebellious city , and the prelates the same way burdened the generall assembly of the church of scotland , but mr. alexander henderson , a man for piety , learning , prudency and singular moderation , from zeale , not from the spirit of gall and wormewood , as the authour slanderously speaketh , said they were the words of tobiah and sanballet , to hinder the worke of reformation ; now whether that worthy man spake what hath now come to passe , let the godly divines of the assembly be judge . . we know no service to the state done by these men , but that they set up with the sword all the blasphemous and hereticall sects and religions that th. muncer or john of leydon phancied contrary to the oath of god , for they all professed they were for the covenant , many of them did sweare it , with what conscience to perfome , let crumwel and others speake , god will not be mocked , which is such disservice to the state of england as cannot but draw downe from heaven the vengeance of the lord , and the vengeance of his temple upon the land ; or was it fair when the congregationall men did hide their conclusion of liberty of conscience , would keepe that intended idoll in the bottome of their heart , and joyne in covenant with presbyterians , and sweare against multiformity of religions in words , known to be contrary to the sense of those who drew up the covenant , contrary to sense and reason , and the same words of the covenant , and now obtrude on us multiformity for uniformity . . the authour insinuates as much , as not to give them liberty of conscience , as a reward of their valorous fighting , is disservice to the state. but ingenuous workmen speake of their wages , before they ingage in the work , but to keepe up any word of liberty of conscience untill the worke bee ended , and it come to disbanding , is no fair bargaining , but rather in plaine english , either sell to us law , liberties , religion , and give them to us beside our arreares , or we must be a perpetuall standing army to governe england , and manage religion with the sword , and to set up all religions , and destroy the covenant and the protestant faith , and live upon the sweat of other mens browes . the covenant with a faire interpretation may be urged against presbyterians , and for the congregationall way , as well as otherwise . the covenant binds no man , nor number of men to state or church for their parts respectively , to any paterne or degree of reformation , conformity or uniformity with other churches , but what shall satisfactorily to them and each of their consciences , appeare to be according to the word of god ; and such a reformation doe the congregationall men desire , pray , preach , endeavovr for and after , in the pursuance of the covenant , as if there had beene no such outward covenant obliging them , would yee have men driven in droves to the sacrament still , and the pretious and the vile mixed ? and idol-shepheards suffered ? and bishops courts , and consistories continued ? had these beene beaten downe , had not we under god , as a forlorne hope first given them battell ? how can ye say , we hinder reformation ? when we are for a further and purer reformation ( your selves being judges ? ) you would ●it down on this side jordan , we would advance ? si● you quiet , if you will not helpe us , as we helped you . answ . when you of the congregationall way , that is , of the church way ( for none are churches but you , we are excommunicated , and all else but your selves ) did sweare to endeavour the preservation of the reformed religion in the church of scotland in doctrine , worship , discipline , and government , which to your consciences , and all the reformed churches is presbyterian , can the covenant be turned against presbyterians , as well as against you ? . you write and preach that the government presbyterian , is popish , antichristian , more tyrannicall then that of babel , of aegypt , so all your way , and particularly mr. burton in his conformities deformity , and your independents in the assembly , yet you did sweare to endeavour its preservation , and all the independents in both houses spake against it as tyrannicall , and have voted to clog it with erastianisme , i would beleeve erastus , if he had sworne to endeavour the preservation of it , better then your oath . i think pagans would not sweare to endeavour the preservation of any religious way which with tongue , pen , lawes , and sword , they endeavour to undoe and extirpate ▪ see if distinctions will defend it against the common enemy , and whether these words , according to the word of god expounded by you , will save you from the quarrell and wrath of god for a broken covenant ? passe over the isles , and goe to turkey , to america , and see if such a thing as this hath been ? . the covenant bindes no man ( saith he ) to any degree of reformation , but what shall satisfactorily appeare to each mans conscience to be according to the word of god. . then the reformed religion in scotland , in doctrine , worship , and government according to the word of god , appeared once satisfactorily to your conscience to be according to the word of god , for you tooke the covenant , yet ye say it is antichristian , it drives men in droves to the sacrament , it is the bishops courts and consistories continued . but yee did sweare to endeavour the preservation of their reformed religion according to the word of god the onely rule . but if it was sworne to as the reformed religion , was it not according to the word of god ? is it reformed , and not according to the word of god ? or was these words according to the word of god ; a condition , insinuating what is in the doctrine and discipline of the reformed religion of that church ? not according to the word of god , to that you did not sweare . but so if the turke should come and wage warre against papists for their religion , and a heathen people that maintaines there bee more gods then one , and that the old testament is not the word of god , should raise armes against the jewes , you might as well swear you should defend the doctrine of the church of rome , and the religion of the jewes against the turke , and those heathen people according to the word of god ; for sure these fundamentalls that jewes and papists hold in doctrine are according to the word of god , and so you did swear no otherwise to defend the reformed religion of the church of scotland then that of the church of england , before these troubles arose for that ye swore to defend in so far as it agrees with ●●e word of god , yea so ye did sweare to defend any religion of any nation you never heard of , according to the word of god , if you say , but we knew the reformed religion of the church of scotland , therefore ye might sweare to it , but yee know not all the religions of any nation you never heard of . but if so , then yee knew the reformed religion of scotland to be according to the word of god , then it appeared satisfactorily to your conscience so to be . but did their fundamentalls against familists , antiscripturists , socinians , arrians , so appeare to your conscience to be according to the word of god , and their antichristian and tyrannicall presbyteries , that are but , as you say , episcopall courts and consistories appear to be so , and that satisfactorily to your consciences ? if so , why judge ye familists , socinians , such as deny the trinity , and such as make all the saints to be christ , and godded with the indwelling fulnesse of god , to be gods manife●●ed in the flesh , to be saints , brethren , the godly party to be indulged ? then you must question the fundamentalls of the doctrine of scotland ▪ and they did not satisfactorily appeare to your conscience to be according to the word of god. and why did you simply without any limitation sweare to endeavour the preservation of the reformed religion ? you should have said , truly reformed religion of the church of scotland ; and why did you sweare simply to the doctrine , worship , discipline and government of the church according to the word of god ? when yee knew then , as now , their government was antichristian , and not according to the word of god ? and their doctrine even in fundamentalls not so sure but socinians , arrians , and the saints your brethren the familists may hold the contrary , and bee tollerated as saints , and their doctrine , though opposite in fundamentalls to ours , may be as satisfactory truths to your conscience as ours of scotland . confesse and glorifie god , you sware the covenant in a jesuiticall reserved sense , kept up in your minde , as you insinuate pag. , . and such as the words cannot beare . . there is here a new tricke put on the covenant , it bindes to no truth but what shall appeare satisfactorily to the conscience of each swearer to be according to the word of god. if a merchant promise and swear to a simple man to give him for such wares an hundred pounds , he gives him but an hundred pounds scotch , whereas the wares are to the man as dear as an hundred pounds starling , is the merchant absolved of his oath and promise , if he pay him but an hundred pounds scotch ? and say , it appeares satisfactorily to my antinomian conscience the 〈…〉 of no more value then a hundred pound scotch , and my oath and promise obligeth me to no more then satisfactorily appeareth to my conscience the onely rule of my obligation , to be according to equity and justice , and so you are fully paid with an hundred pounds scotch . so this authour absolves us from all oaths and covenants , though we sweare not to kill a captive taken in warre , and sweare to adhere to the fundamentalls that there is one god , christ is the one onely mediator , god and man , consubstantiall with the father , yet if after you have talked with sa●marsh , or put your faith in the power of the sophismes o● a cunning jesuit , he makes it satisfactorily appeare to your conscience that it is according to the word of god that the captive ●e killed , ●e is a murtherer , and there be as many mediators , as there be saints in heaven , and as many christs godded with the fulnesse of the godhead , as there be saints of the family of love , and so your oath to your fundamentalls obligeth you not ; and you are guilty of no per●ury though first you sware to the necessary truths of god , and now ye turne apostate from both faith and oath . libertines infuse such a magick in your erroneous conscience that it is your onely rule , and displaceth the law of nature from all obligation , or the word of god the onely rule of faith and manners , you are tyed no longer by the oath of god , then your weather-cock-conscience , with this new moon , hath catched a new light , you are as if there had been no such outward covenant obliging you , take it upon the word of this gamaliel , dormii securd in utramque aurem . but though it be true , nothing doth oblige , but it must appeare to be according to the word of god , that it may oblige in the right and due manner and way , yet it is most false that it obligeth , as it shall appear , or qua●●nus , because it doth appear to the conscience to be the word of god , for a quatenus ad omne valet consequentia . then every thing obligeth , as it appears to be the word of god to the conscience most erroneous , then are some obliged to murther the innocent apostles ; for it appeares satisfactorily to their conscience to be the word of god , and service to god so to doe , joh. . . and some are obliged to sacrifice their sons to god , though they did vow and covenant the contrary in baptisme , for it appeares satisfactorily to their conscience , it is according to the example of abraham , to offer their sonnes to god , except god from heaven forbid them as he did abraham . . to libertines no covenants nor oaths of the most lawfull things layes on any more obligation to performance , then if these oaths had never been made , if the erroneous conscience gainsay . . you did know the discipline of the church of scotland debars not all from the sacrament , except known unregenerate persons ; yee knew their consistories to be hatefull to the common enemies , why then did you swear to defend them against the commmon enemy , since both to your conscience and the common enemy they are contrary to the word of god. . you durst not give the first battle to bishops , scotland gave it to them , when your grandees were as low as shrubs , as feared as harts . . you hinder reformation , your independents wrought with all their power , there should be no assembly , and that no old non-conformists , such as sound and learned mr. ruthband , gracious and zealous mr. ash , and others , to bee members thereof , and would rather have had prelaticall conformists in the assembly then they . you joyne with all the sectaries , who are against covenant , government , confession of faith , and directory of worship , retarded the proceedings of the assembly ; we heard often in scotland ▪ you wished prelacie were gone , if ye knew what to put in its place , as if no government known to you could fit england but prelacy , and that of the reformed churches were not so good . . you would goe further on then we , and be over jordan , but we had rather sit downe on this side of jordan , as go over with you , for ye was not well over , when yee set up at the kings house idolatrous bowing to altars , and the abjured masse-booke , and familists , socinians , antinomians , seekers , arrians , preaching souldiers , who teach as many saints , as many christs and gods manifested in the flesh , and when these perverters of the right wayes of god were silenced by a godly preacher at london , they prayed woe with learning , it opposeth all the wayes of god ; and is that a reformation on the other side of jordan , which sends out apostles to preach that are as blinde as moles in the principles of the single catechisme , who know not whether there bee-one god , and one mediator christ , or millions of gods and christs , yet these are the onely a●ointed ones . it were good that such a reformation were over jordan , and millions of miles beyond america . chap. xxii . the pretended liberty of conscience is against the nationall league and covenant , and the ordinances of the parliament of england ingaged by oath for a reformation of religion . a midst our greatest feares , and the inlarged sorrowes of our heart , for the calamitous condition of our dear brethren in england , by reason of an unnaturall warre raised by a prelaticall , popish and malignant party , tending to the destruction of the kingdome , subversion of religion , lawes , and liberties , we exceedingly rejoyced , when the lord mighty in counsell ▪ did lay in sion the foundation of a hopefull building ▪ and stirred up the spirits of the honourable houses of parliament to declare to the commissioners of the generall assembly of the kirke of scotland their sense of church government , by archbishops , bishops , &c. to be dishonourable to god , by arrogating to themselves a pre●●minence and power which he had not given , justly offensive to the kingdome , a great impediment to the growth of religion , and promising to remove the same , desired for the obtaining of a● happy union with the church of scotland , and other reformed churches abroad , the generall assembly to send to the assembly of divines at westminster , some godly and learned divines of that church , whereby an uniformity in forme of church government might be obtained , and t●ereby a more easie passage made to the settling of one confession of faith , one liturgie or directory of publicke worship , and one catechisme , in all the three kingdomes , and when for our faith fulnesse to our brethren in sending an army to england to helpe them , the enemy had wasted our land , and we were given for lost , and filled with the cup of astonishment , of waters of gall and wormewood , in our greatest midnight darkenesse ▪ it was to us the morning dawning of the flourishing condition of the isle of britaine , when we did reap first fruits of that blessed union of both kingdomes by that nationall covenant with the lord the most high , and of the three kingdomes amongst themselves , never to bee forgotten , and when we received the directory for the publicke worship of god throughout the three kingdomes , passed in ordinance of parliament in each kingdome . but now we are stricken with amazement exceedingly , when we reape no other fruit of our expence of blood , wastation of our kingdome , attendance on this assembly four years , but in stead of the nearest uniformity of the churches of god in the three kingdomes , in religion , confession of faith , form of church government , directory for worship and catechising , a far more capacious and wide deformity in all these then there was before our taking of the covenant , yea or since christian religion came first into this island . when we see a licentious tolleration in one of the three kingdomes of all formes and wayes of serving god established by law , and no limitation nor bordering provided to hedge in the fleshly and lawlesse exorbitances of men , whose apprehensions and phancies of the one onely true god in three distinct persons , and of his revealed will in his word , are now by nature vaine , superstitious , idolatrous , blasphemous , impure , and devilish , save onely a poore , narrow , and dubious circle of some few fundamentalls that may be , and are by men of corrupt mindes changed in lyes and blasphemies . we therefore the commissioners of the kirk of scotland according to the trust committed to us , are necessitated in the name of jesus christ the onely king and head of his church , and at the commandement , and in the name of the kirke of scotland to protest , and by these presents doe protest and declare against the said pretended tolleration as followeth . such liberty , is inconsistent with , and repugnant to the word of god , deut. . , , ▪ to ver . . rom. . , , , compared with phil. . . joh. . where false teachers are c●●●ed evill doers , so ezra . , , , , , . ne●em . . . . , . . . chron. . ver . , chron. . , . , . kings . , . . , . dan. . . dan. . . tim. . . revel . . , , . zach. . , , , , , . esay . . exod. . , , , . levit. . ▪ . deut. . , , &c. exod. . , , , . numb . . , , , &c. deut. . , , to ver . . josh . . , , &c. god severely avengeth and plagueth breach of covenant , either with the lord himselfe , or men . we therefore appeale to the righteous judge of the whole earth whose dreadfull name is ingaged in this covenant . nor can wee imagine that this covenant is temporary , for we swear to continue in this blessed union all the dayes of our life zealously and constantly . nor hath the lord instamped his divine image of making just lawes upon any nomethetick power of the most free and independent kingdome on earth , so as the breach of lawfull promises , covenants , contracts , which are against the law of god , of nature , of nations , should , or can be the subject matter of any nomethetick power , for god gives no power to make unjust decrees . the pretended liberty is against the articles , matte● , and ends of the covenant , a parliamentary power interposed for the not punishing of deformity as touching many religions , must destroy the commanded nearest uniformity of the one only true religion . nor can they defend the one onely reformed religion of scotland commanding the magistrate , the minister of god to use the sword against false teachers , who give liberty to all religions . nor can the word of god bee our rule of reformation , except this rule be one , and injoyne one only true religion , and forbid tolleration of all others . there can be no way so prevailing to promote , cherish and foment heresie , and what is contrary to sound doctrine , as for publique authority by law to permit it , except wee would ( praise , and reward such fleshly wayes ) . the lord cannot be one , nor his name one in both kingdoms , when by law , multitudes of names , wayes and religions are tollerated . many religions suffered , must be contrary to the true religious liberty of christian states and churches , when men are licenced to professe slavery and bondage , to the efficacy and power of errour to beleeve , professe , and disseminate lies and blasphemies in the name of the lord. many false wayes of religions , doth in the scripture argue a change of gods , for these that are no gods , which heathens doe abhorre , jer. . , , . and a multiplying of gods , according to the number of each sect and societie , jer. . . and a manifest countenancing of scepticisme , of many gods , and of no god , since then the parliament not onely as christian men , but as a parliament , and as magistrates have sworne the covenant ; they must sweare each one of them to defend his owne religion , familisme , arrianisme , antinomianisme , which he beleeves to be the true religion , and that as a magistrate with the sword of god , and so to oppose his fellow members with his parliamentary power , how then can the parliament command others , or ingage themselves to the lord their god to indeavour the preservation of the one reformed religion in scotland , that we and our posterity may live in faith and love ( for this is many faiths professedly different ) and that the lord may delight to dwel in the midst of us , and this is many gods in the midst of us : and that we shall indeavour the extirpation of heresie , superstition , prorpanenesse — and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine ? it is not every parliament man , who by law , may be of any religion , oblieged by the oath of god to endeavour the extirpation of the true protestant religion , since to him who is a familist and antinomian , it is heresie and contrary to sound doctrine ? are not papists though known papists , to be judges , and members of parliament ? why should they be debarred for their religion ? and they must by this oath indeavour the extirpation of heresies , and hereticks , that is , of protestan●s . the foresaid licentiousnesse is contrary to the indeavour to preserve the rights , liberties of parliaments , and just power and greatnesse of the king , now both king , parliaments , and all rulers have the sword committed to them to defend the church against seducers , wolves , hereticks , false teachers : and by the sword are to stand against the violation of mercy , righteousnesse , and the peace of humaine societies ▪ and so against such , as from meere grounds of conscience serve god in sacrificing their children to god , promiscuous use of wives , a part of the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , community of goods ; robing the just owners of their inheritances and possessions , because the word saith , the meeke shall inherit the earth : lying and denying of our religion before men . for should the magistrate kil the father whose only conscience , nothatred ( which is the only essentiall ingredient , to make killing of our neighbour without lawfull authority , that murthering of our brother , which by the law of god and man , is punishable with death , deut. . , , . c. . . c. . . and the sword of the magistrate ) not any hatred ( i say ) or desire of revenge towards his sonne , whom he loves as tenderly as abraham did isaack , presseth out of meere religious obedience to god to offer his sonne to god in a sacrifice , he should not punish a murtherer , but offer violence to the conscience of his father ; since the word of god condemneth this as false worship , not as murther , yea , as superstitious adding to the word , and as wil-worship , deu. . , . jer , . , . divers religions being contrary to christ , and the one truth of the gospell , of their owne nature raise fire and sword betweene , brethren , and the mother against the daughter in law , and must be a seminary of factions , and devisions , which is distructive to the unity in our covenant micah . , . matth. . , . luke . verse . , . gen. . by which it cannot be possible we should defend one another in this common cause of religion , except a reconciliation be made betweene the seed of the woman and the serpent . and many being of divers religions , must need give themselves to a detestable indifferency and newtrality , as touching the common cause of god. since it cannot be the common cause of god , but of sathan , and of forcing conscience by persecution to them . many men , yea , it s the cause of god to many , to hate and persecute the gospell by this . by which meanes every man may resile from this blessed union and conjunction , so far must he be from zealous and constant continuing therein all the dayes of his life , for parliamentary authority frees them to imbrace any new religion , contrary to the protestant religion . and to what church , sect , or religious societie can the christian magistrate be a nurse-father by his office ? is it not to the one , onely true church of christ , that professeth the sound faith ? certaine the scripture saith , as the sonnes of strangers shall build the wals of the true church , so kings shall minister unto her , esay . . and she must sucke the brests of kings , esay . . which evinceth , that kings , as kings are by their office to doe some princely and royall acts of justice and favour for the good of the true church , and true religion : then must either the king by office be indifferent and newtrall to all other religions and sects , which must be inconsistent with his duty , as nurse-father to the church , esay . . whose part it is , that according to his place he take care that the children sucke not poyson for milke ; or he must be newtrall to all religions except to the onely true religion , though he himselfe be an arrian , or socinian , or of opinion that all religions are to be tollerated by the christian magistrate , in which regard , it would seeme , such are not capable to be magistrates in a christian society . nor can the magistrate promote reformation against all lets and impediments , no not heresie , which is a worke of the flesh ; if both he may take , and give licence to all under him to professe what ever way shall seeme good to the dictates of an erronio●s conscience . no church can indeavour , according to our covenant , for the power and purity of religion , if any jezabel , any that shall seduce and tempt the flocke or any of them to idolatry , or abominable ▪ heresies , or make defection to judaisme , to familisme , which denyeth , as the antichrist doth , that christ is come into the flesh , if they purge not out such leaven , and withdraw not from them , and deny not to them lodging , as the word of god teacheth us , revel . . . , , . tit. . . rom. : v. , . thess . . , . tim. . , , , , , , . tit. . . cor. . , , , . joh. . . nor can we give a more publicke scandall and just offence to the best reformed churches , with whom we are to endeavour the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion , then to cry against both their doctrine and constant practise in that they teach a necessity of both civill and ecclesiasticall censures against ravenous wolves who spare not the flocke , and cease not , with elimas the sorcerer , to pervert the right wayes of the lord. . and we dare appeale to the consciences of our brethren in england , when we did willingly enter in the covenant of god , to dye and live , sinke and swim , give our lives with , and for them in this common cause of god , if they did not conceive our downeright and ingenuous sense and meaning of the covenant to be against all such pretended liberty of conscie●ce , for which cause sundry of them joyning with us as friends , yet did refuse to take the covenant , or if by the liberties of the kingdomes , or the true publicke liberty , or any like word , they did understand liberty of professing socinianisme , prolacy , popery , familisme , heresie , or any thing contrary to sound doctrine ; or if they did beleeve their brethren , who in the simplicity of their hearts did rather chuse to suffer affliction with the people of god , then injoy their owne pleasures and peace for a season , or that the honourable honses had any such sense , when in the returne of the parliament of england , p. , . in their letters and declarations , they invited us to joyn in covenant to endeavour an uniformity of doctrine , worship , and discipline with them , which sen●e , if any had , ( for we shall beleeve the honourable honses , invited not us to ruine our selves , and the reformed religion with any such argument ) shall not the lord search out such double equivocation , and jugling in the sacred oath and covenant of god ? nor doth the word of god evidence to the consciences of men , that there be some few fundamentalls , in which arrians , familists , socinians , seekers , arminians , anabaptists , &c. agree , and that the magistrate is to punish such as professe and teach false doctrine in these , but in all these other points that border with these fundamentalls , both magistrates and church are to leave men to their owne conscience to waste and destroy soules as they thinke good , without any controle , except in such smooth rebukes as eli gave to his sonnes , or exposing of the word of truth to mockery , after admonition an hereticke is not to be instructed at all by the word , nor doe we , by our doctrine more make the sword of the magistrate a spirituall meanes as touching mens consciences , by which they are converted to the sound faith , as concerning the duties of the first table and doctrine of the gospel , because the magistrate punisheth false teachers , then libertines doe make it a spirituall way of converting soules from murthers , rapes , sodomies , robbery , lying , to a sound conversation , in matters of the second table , who doe hold that the magistrate beareth the sword for punishing of murtherers , adulterers , and such as faile against the second table ; for in either the sword hath no spirituall influence on the conscience , nor is it any thing an ordinance of god for converting of heretickes , but to hinder perverting of the right wayes of god , and for our externall right walking as touching the outward man in all the duties of both tables , that we hurt not one another in civill societies . this new liberty destroyes all that the parliament hath done , said , suffered ; for the hononourable houses doe professe before the everliving god , the safety of religion , laws , and liberties to be the chiefe end of all their counsells and resolutions ; also that scotland had lovingly invited them to a nearer and higher degree of union in matters of religion and church-government , which we ( say they ) most willingly embrace and intend to pursue . the honourable houses declare , they have for the just and necessary defence of the protestant religion , his majesties person , crowne , &c. taken up armes , and appointed and authorised robert earle of essex to be captaine generall . the same was the end of the kingdome of scotland . now can it be dreamed that the end of either kingdomes , united by covenant and compact in this warre , was to spend lives and fortunes , for liberty or licence to many religions ? or can any say but the intent of the houses at that time was to oppose , never to countenance , and tollerate ( as now professedly they do ) brownists , anabaptists , familists , antinomians , socinians , arrians , seekers , and libertines , who are for all religions ? should not we have had bowells of iron , if in charity , wee had not beleeved our brethrens words , oaths , pro●essions ? the honourable houses ingage the whole kingdome of england to take the covenant by their commissioners in a treaty betwixt the two kingdomes , which treaty was ratified in the parliament of england , and both kingdomes agree that no meanes was thought so expedient to accomplish and strengthen the union , as for both nations to enter into a solemne league and covenant , and a forme thereof drawne and presented to the convention of estates , and generall assembly of scotland , and the two houses of the parliament of england , and hath accordingly beene done , and received their respective approbation ; and i. proposition , it is agreed and concluded that the covenant presented to the convention of estates and generall assembly of scotland , and sent to both houses of the parliament of england to their brethren of scotland , and allowed by the committee of estates , and commissioners of the generall assembly be swor●● and subscribed by both kingdomes , 〈◊〉 most 〈◊〉 and conjunction betwixt them , for their mutuall defence , against the papist and prelaticall faction , and their adherents in both kingdomes , and for pursuance of the ends exprest in the said covenant . ii. that an army ( of the kingdome of scotland ) shall be levied forthwith , &c. which treaty is approved by each parliament respectively , and by the parliament of england , . novem . . now what ever power the parliament of england hath in relation to england to alter , make and unmake lawes as shall seem most fit to the wisdome of the houses , yet they neither have nor can have power against the law of nature and nations , to alter , retract or breake their promise , agreement , faith , and contract made with another kingdome , so that both kingdomes binde their owne hands that they cannot but command the covenant to be taken by each kingdome , not by the representative kingdome or parliament , onely but by the collective or diffusive body of both kingdomes , in regard that the 〈◊〉 not between the parliaments onely , but between the kingdomes , nor can the houses thinke it lawfull at that time to offer violence to the consciences of some , ( which some now say is to force them to doe against the present judgement and light of conscience ) and unlawfull at this time to presse others , for this is a covenant ( as one faith well ) that is never to bee forgotten by us nor our posterity . — and the parties ingaging in this league are three kingdomes , famous for the knowledge and acknowledgement of christ above all kingdomes of the world , that this covenant tyes us to defend one another , beside the words thereof , the former authour saith , god hath wisdome to discover , and strength to punish , if our hearts he not upright to our brethren in this matter . so do the houses say , our purpose is to consult with godly and learned divines , that so we may not only remove governments by archbishops , but likewise settle such a government as may be most agreeable to gods holy word , most apt to procure and preserve the peace of the church at home , and a happy union with the church of scotland , and other reformed churches abroad , and establish the same by law , in the treaty between the kingdoms , an . . the scottish army shall grant no tolleration for the popish religion . the honourable houses must intend a quite other thing then pretended liberty , when they according as they are obliged by the treaty of both kingdomes passe an ordinance that the covenant be taken throughout the kingdome of england , and dominion of wales , and their names to bee returned to the houses , who shall refuse . and an exhortation is framed by the assembly for taking the covenant , which was approved by the houses , and printed by a speciall ordinance , to wit , that no faithfull english heart be afraid to joyne with our brethren of all the three kingdomes in this solemne league , as sometime the men of israel ( although under another king ) did with the men of judah at the invitation of hezekiah , chro. . — and as ezra and nehemiah , ezra . neh. . drew all the people into a covenant without any speciall commission from the persian monarchs ( then their sovereignes ) so to doe , albeit they were not free subjects but vassals . and the two kingdoms joyntly declare that not onely papists , and popish recusants , and irish rebels that are actually in armes against the parliament , shall looke for no favour , but be punished as traytors , but also all newtralists , all the ignorant and simple that were seduced , or compelled to take armes , all of the scotish nation mis-led through private respects , all dividers between the king and his parliament , if they would expect pardon and favour , should speedily take the covenant , and joyn heartily and really in the defence of this cause . nor can the examples of ezra , nehemiah and hezekiah be good divinity then , and bad now , or the plea of not forcing the conscience be then weake , but now strong , except wee dreame that parliaments by a nemothetick power can alter divine truthes ; which wee are unwilling to beleeve of the parliament of england . such a tolleration must thwart and crosse the professed sincere intentions of the honourable houses for uniformity and the advancement of true religion , out of which there will also undoubtedly result , a most firme and stable union between the kingdomes , and contrary to that proposed end of the covenant , and of all our travels for reformation , which the assembly of divines testified at the special command of the house of commons assembled in parliament to be aimed at by both kingdomes in this defencive warre , in letters sent to the reformed churches abroad in france , helvetia , geneva . wallacria , &c. ( what a letter most contradicent to that might they now write ? ) whereas this tolleration must be the sad scandalizing and sorrow of all reformed churches in the christian world , the joy and triumph of papists , the mocking and dispising of the wayes of christ , to heathens within , to atheists round about , the sadning of all the godly , the condemning of our former wayes , as acts of apostacy from god , and rebellion and dis-loyalty to our prince . the houses also declare , if his majesty had not , denied his consent to a bill for an assembly of divines , they had long since manifested to the world their utter dislike of brownisme and anabaptisme . as also , that it is farre from their desire and intentions to let loose the reines of discipline and church government , and to let private persons , and particular congregations take up what forme of worship they please , but doe hold it requisite there should be through the whole realme , a conformity to that order which the law injoynes according to the word of god. we was invited , to bee instruments of a glorious reformation for a nearer union in church-government against the common enemy in the cause of god. the commissioners of england say , the parliament desires a nearer conjunction in forme of church-government , directory , confession and catechisme , and utter extirpation of prelacie the most effectuall and ready meanes , whereunto is now conceived to be the stricter union and league between the nations , and our assistance of england by an army . it rejoyced the hearts of the godly in the three kingdomes , when the houses passed an ordinance for the directory of publicke worship , to be used in all the three kingdomes , and layed aside the booke of common-prayers , and burdensome ceremonies upon a resolution professed to the world , according to the covenant to reforme religion according to the word of god , and the example of the best reformed churches , which was accordingly approved and ratified in the parliament of scotland , if wee then turne backe againe from that begunne uniformity , what doe wee also but pull downe and destroy what we have builded ? especially since uniformity , which we sweare to indeavour in our covenant , is cryed downe by familists , and antinomians , and all externall worship and profession of christ before men , as indifferent , and all religion retrinched into onely things of the minde and heart , upon a dreame that the written word of god is not our rule oblieging us , but an inward law in the mind beyond , all ordinances , must regulate us now under the gospell . the honourable houses in rules and directions for suspending from the lords supper , enumerating most of the fundamentals , doe by divers ordinances evidence they are by law to bee punished , who professe or teach contrary to these . and in rules for trying of ministers before they be ordained ( though thousands now are constant preachers without any ordination at all ) the minister must be one that is able to defend the orthodox doctrine contained in the scriptures ( as the scripture saith , tim. . tit. . , , . ) against all unsound and erronious opinions , especially those of the present age , such as these , of arrians , socinians , arminians , anabaptists , brownists , familists , antinomians , libertines , seekers , &c. where the houses mention the great duty lying on them , to settle matters concerning religion , and the worship of almighty god , and have continually before their eyes the covenant , which they have so solemnly taken , and in pursuance of the ends of the covenant — have removed the booke of common-prayer with all its unnecessary and burdensome ceremonies , and have established the directory in the roome thereof , and have abolished the prelaticall hierarchy by arch-bishops bishops , and instead thereof have laid the foundation of a presbyterian government in every congregation , with subordination to classical , provinciall and nationall assemblies , and of them all to the parliament . both houses of parliament , and the parliament of scotland , agree that the kings majesty take , or at least approve and ratifie the covenant , and that all the subjects of either kingdomes sweare it . what then shal become of the covenant ? shall it not be buried , if a law passe it shall be voluntary to men to take it , or not to take it . the honourable houses ordaine , that any preaching or writing , or maintaining such errours as doe subvert any articles of the true protestant religion , shall be excluded from the lords supper , and in case of refusal to compear before the eldership , or obstinate persisting in the errour shall be imprisoned by the justice of peace , till he submit to order . the houses give thankes to the commissioners of the kingdome of scotland , that the lords of privy councell do so farre respect the welfare and peace of england that they are pleased to second the desires of the generall assembly of that church for unity in religion , and uniformity in church-government in his majesties three kingdomes . we cannot thinke the honourable houses would passe an ordinance for an universall fast through all the kingdome to seeke assistance from god to suppresse heresies and errours , except the whole land be injoyned to take the name of god in vaine , if it were not the will and minde of the houses to detest liberty of conscience , especially since in the ordinance , they mention the wonderfull assistance of god since their engagement in the covenant , in which they are to endeavour sincerely , really , and constantly the reformation of religion in doctrine , discipline and worship , and the extirpation of popery , superstition , heresie , schisme , and prophanenesse , and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine , — and that they are resolved to improve the utmost of their power , that nothing be said or done against the truth , but for the truth . now by the utmost of their power they must meane their parliamentary power of the sword committed to them as the ministers of god ; for that is their utmost and highest power , otherwise all private men are to improve the utmost of their power for the truth . in the ordinance for reforming of the university of oxford , the honourable houses ordaine to punish those that take not the covenant , or oppose the execution of the ordinances of parliament concerning the discipline and directory . the honourable house of commons say , their true and reall intentions are , and endeavours shall be to settle religion in the purity thereof according to the covenant . nor can the parliament loose men from the oath of god , nor put any exposition on the covenant , other then the words naturally hold forth , nor can any one parliament obtrude any law interpretation of the covenant on the subjects different from the true sense and genuine meaning conceived by the parliament of the other kingdome , since it is not the covenant of any one single kingdome , nor can we say without mocking of god , and dallying with the oath of god , that the covenant was conceived in any such doubtsome , equivocall and two faced sense , so as each kingdome may sweare it according to their owne sense , and the one sense for , or not against the pretended liberty of conscience , the other for it . and both kingdomes esteeme the end of the warres , an abundant reward of all that we can doe or suffer in this cause , to settle religion , and we have resolved and decreed never to lay downe armes , untill truth and peace be settled in this island upon a firme foundation for the present and future generations . then what ever kingdome shall resyle from the covenant to a detestable liberty of all pretended truths , as they breake with god , so must they breake with men , seeing the two kingdomes are mutually and reciprocally ingaged to one another in the meanes and the end , and they must looke that the righteous god shall avenge breach of covenant , and such apostacie from his truth , with the saddest and heaviest of judgements that we or our fathers have heard of , the rumour whereof shall cause our eares to tingle . the honourable houses professe an union in doctrine , discipline , and worship , to be a more strong bulwarke against the bloody practises of papist , and deceitfull errors of other sectaries , and more profitable use of the ministery . other sectaries can be no other then such as swarme and abound in the army and kingdome . and this diversity of religions by tolleration utterly weakens , yea and dissolveth the blessed union betweene the kingdomes : for the houses say , religion cannot be altered in the one kingdome without the other , and the lord would not have put it in the hearts of both kingdomes , if he had beene minded to destroy us . they acknowledge that religion is the band and foundation of the safety and happinesse of both kingdomes . when therefore god suffers it to enter into our hearts to breake our covenant with god and our brethren , the lord hath a minde to disquiet the inhabitants of england , so as the fierce anger of the lord and his jealousie must smoake against them as fire . the reverend assembly of divines give their sense of this pretended liberty to be against the will and minde of god in his word . finis . chap. xxiii . the place acts . v. . to wit , the counsell of gamaliel , discussed , and found nothing for liberty of conscience . the most of the strength of master john goodwins argument , stands thus , theomachia , ser . . . this doctrine , or way , is either of men or of god ( saith gamaliel . ) if it he of men , you shall not need to represse it , for it will of it selfe come to naught ; which he proves by the instances of judas and theudas . if it be of god , it is in vaine to strive against it , for it must prevaile , and the counsell of heaven must stand ; for then ye run the hazard of fighting against god , and incurring the displeasure of the romans , by whose courtesie and meere grace you have the liberty of capitall punishments . the grounds that master goodwin layes downe , are , gamaliel at this time was a convert , and tooke on him the patrociny of the apostles . . his reasoning to abstaine from them is orthodox and sound , and from the holy ghost . . it holdeth , that when judges are not infallibly perswaded , ( as these were , not knowing the way of christ ) to coerce any religion or way never so false , is persecution , straining of free consciences , and fighting against god : i judge john goodwin hath ploughed with the heifer of vaticanus , who writes a virulent peece against caloin , and condemnes the burning of that monster . michael servetus brings the same argument . vaticanus ( some thinke it was castalio , adversus calvinum ) num. : and bellius , arg . . but . though libertines espouse and owne the argument of gamaliel , as from the holy ghost , to condemn all use of the sword against false teachers ; yet it is gamaliels rotten dialemme , not the holy ghosts . . abstaine from these men , is according to the medium or reason of gamaliel , speak no boasting words , deale not morally with the conscience , though ye by office , ought so to do , as sitting in the chaire of moses , far lesse use the sword against them . the reason is , if the doctrine be of god , it shall stand , and ye are no more to fight against god , with the tongue , than the hand , and with corrupt reason , than with a steele sword ; and if the doctrine be of men , it shall fall of will ; neither then are you to preach , nor with the arme of flesh to act against them , and the word in the greeke is , stand up from them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the syriack , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omittite eos , v. . let them alone , v. . and the intention of gamaliel , if he speak as a convert to christ , ( as goodwin and vaticanus suppose ) must import no lesse . . the argument is as strong in the matter of adultery , treason , bloody rebellion , and murder , against the lawfull magistrates power , coercing all disorders against the second table , as against religion or a way of god or of men , by which wee worship god , and therefore ( as beza sayth ) the man was no favorer of the gospell , but feared the evill that might follow upon the displeasure of the romans . and piscator and * gualther saies well , it was an evill counsell , gualther sayth , since the scope of gamaliel was onely to save the apostles from present danger , they abuse this argument , who thereby shake all discipline civill and ecclesiasticall : for the magistrate beares not the sword in vaine , and ought to extirpate heresies by his office. and calvin saith , it was a sentence unworthy of a wise man , because that which is of god shall stand , gamaliels consequence is null , that therefore the magistrate whom god armed with the sword should doe nothing against sinne . the consequence is as strong , in murthers , paricides , sedition , as in heresies whatever vaticanus says in the contrary , applying this argument only to doctrine , and to plants that our heavenly father hath not planted . for , . it is not the purpose of gamaliel to draw his doctrin to so narrow a channel as to doctrins only , as if doctrins of men only came to nought , for gamaliel alledgeth the examples of iudas and theudas the galilean , whose fault was not only false prophecying , but rebellion and sedition , for foure hundred armed men gathered to this man and obeyed him , greeke , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et abierunt post cum quasi quadringenti homines , they went after him , as their captaine in the fields . and the other judas of galile drew away much people ; now they were drawn away , in a course of tumultuary rebellion , as is clear by the two words , they obeyed him , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 syriack , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dispersi sunt , they were scattered as an armie of men , then these men were not onely false teachers , but levied men to rise against authority , as anabaptists doe after them : so shall it follow , that when men rise in bloody murthers and insurrections , we must leave them to god ; for when they rise to cut the throats of innocent people , whether that ignis fatuus the foole fire of blind zeale , or a treasonable designe raise them in armes , their way is either of men , and so god will bring it to nought , and we must sit still and suffer our selves to be murthered , contrary to the law of nature , because god will not faile to crush these novators and firebrands , or their way and courses of god , and so yet we must sit still , and all the most just defensive warres shall be unlawfull , for if we stir one foot against them , we run the hazzard of the bold blind gyants to fight against god , it is all one to the dialemme of gamaliel , whether he speakes of theudas the magician or sorcerer , as josephus antiq . lib. . cap. . and eusebius , who rose in the time that cuspius fadus governed judea , who said hee could divide jordan , and gathered his men to the banks of jordan in the fourth year of claudius ; or if it bee theudas that rose long before fadus , before the reigne of agrippa , who did reigne seven yeares under caligula and claudius , or who this iudas was , it is sure the argument will prove that magistrates are not to draw their swords against rebells , and traitors , and this subverts all policy and government civil or ecclesiastical . the argument , of gamaliel , cannot conclude that god is lesse watchful , and lesse severe to take vengeance on sorcerers , murtherers , lions and cruel tyrants , bloody and deceitful men , than against new false religions , for if the way of robbers , conspirators , armies that rise in rebellion against their masters , covenant-breakers , bee of men , god wil bring it to nought and destroy it , as he overturned the way of theudas and iudas , as is cleare . god turnes the way of the wicked upsidedown , ps . . . and the bloody and deceitfull man shall not live halfe his days , ps . . . and so shall the old lion perish for want of his prey , job . . and shall want and suffer hunger , psalm . . . ergo , iob or any magistrate should refraine from plucking the prey out of the jawes of the oppressours , contrary to iob . , . or if the way of oppressors bee of god , and if god have armed them with his power to be a scourge , rulers should not defend the fatherlesse , the widdow , and the stranger , from the pawes of the lions and murtherers , but should refrain ; why ? if gods power bee with them , we resist the power of god , we fight against god. nor is it enough that the patron of liberty , servetus and goodwin tell us in doubtsome things , such as controversies of religion , we would refraine from drawing the sword against men , for their conscience and religion , because we know not infallibly , but their way may be as well or rather the way of god , than our own , and then wee run the hazzard of fighting against god omnipotent ; and when it is dubious to us , but it may be the way of men , it is safest to leave it to god , and that we hold back our hand from offering violerce to them , for god will save our labour , and burne the hay and stubble of mens drossie inventions , and what need then is there to file the edge of the magistrates sword , in a dubious case , when we have not certaine●y of faith , that the now sectaries way is of men and sathan . answ . . pharoahs tyranny in detaining the people in bondage , notwithstanding of the wonders that the god of the hebrews wrought by moses , was as doubtsome to him to be tyranny , since his god-idol of egypt did the like wonders by the magicians , as controversies of religion are , and blindnesse in duties in the second table , when judiciall , and from the power of the prince of darknesse , is as strong and may as much make men excuseable , and shield them from the sword of god or man , as blindnesse in the duties of the first table . this answer does oyle the head , and flatter the wilfull and malicious ignorance of pharisees , who both knew christ , and whence he was , and were convinced that the gospell was from god , and that the miracles of peter and john came nothing short of the miracles of moses , in point of glory and power , and by this all the seducers , even such as sin against the holy ghost , as did these pharisees , shall bee tollerated , because wee know not infallibly , but their anti-gospell and blaspheming of god , and his son , may bee the way of god , and therefore we must refraine from lifting a tongue against them , and they know not but our gospell may be the gospel , or it may be the divinity of devills , and by this the knowledge of the elements and first fundamentalls of the gospell , to wit , that iesus died , rose againe , ascended to heaven , and through faith in his name , jewes and gentiles are saved , the only doctrine for which these apostles were persecuted , shal be mere scepticisme ; and an adventuring fluctuation ; wee must leave to god either to reward and establish , or to annihillate or crush this way of the apostles : wee must not oppose it , because no morall man with certainty of faith can oppose the most false way , though as cleare point-blanke contrary to the gospel as noon day to blacke midnight , but he must run the hazzard of either fighting against god , or invading the chaire of god , or of bringing to nought , that which god onely brings to nought , and of striking , but not in faith , him whom god will have us not to strike . but . this argument of gamaliel , and mr. goodwin , must conclude that we must not smite with the tongue , or argue by the scriptures of god against any false way . . it is dubious to us as to the pharisees , and to al christian magistrats who are infallibly in no gospel principle , and so they cannot in faith draw the sword where the certainty of faith does not lead them , for fear they fall upon gyant fighting against god , in lie● of acts of justice . but so neither should vatica●●● , m●mus , c●lsus , mr. go●dwin , nor any smite with the tongue presbyterians , socinians , antiscripturians , or fight against their way by scripture arguments , because their way may bee the way of truth , as wel as yours , and to fight against any truth of god , when ye know not , but it may be truth of god , is a fighting against god , and so al preaching , al writing against heretickes shal be a fighting against god , for it is no more lawful to fight morally then phisically against god , or his truth , and that without faith and infallibility , for to reproach any precious truth of the spirit in saints , and cal it a lye , must be to reproach god and his son christ , as to deny any truth of god before men , is to deny god and christ before men , matth. . . mark. . . luk. . . tim. . , . . this dilemma of gamaliel saith , any way or doctrine of men must be refrained from ; and nothing can be done by magistrates or ministers , nor spoken on the contrary , because god himself will have it reserved to him , that he may bring it to nought . now by this argument we are not by teaching and doctrine so much as in us lies , to hinder grievous wolves to draw disciples after them , and corrupt hearers to gather to themselves an heap of teachers , by preaching the contrary sound doctrine , contrary to acts . , , , . tim. . , , , . tit. . , , , . for . we are no more to convince , refute , and rebuke false teachers , except we could do it in faith and assurance , that their way is of men and false ( since all we do , or do not , speak , or speak not , must be in the perswasion of faith , else we sinne , rom. . , , , . ) then christian magistrates can punish them with the sword . . we can no more fight against a way of god ( for so the heretick to death under torturing professeth ) and you have no faith , on the contrary ( say libertines ) with the tongue , nor with the hand . yea , we can no more labour to suppresse what god onely , in his sole prerogative of providence , immediately working ought to suppresse , and that in a mediate providence of our own making , with preaching , refuting , watching over the flock , stopping the mouthes of gain-sayers , then we can indeavour the suppressing of it with the sword . . gamaliel intended to have the apostles , not to be medled with , either because godly men , and disciples of christ , as he was ; or because their way was dubiously , not notively and manifestly false ; if the former , then . godly men , though in an evill way , though they murther , play the traytor , rebell , commit adultery , are not to be any way censured . this is the way of anabaptisme , that sets all beleevers above and beyond the reach of the magistrates sword , and his dilemma cannot have this sense ; for if godly men , as godly men are upon this formall reason , because godly men must not be punished by the magistrate ; neither must they ever at all be punished for the acts of oppression , or murthering , or treacherous dealing , or adultery , for it is cleere in the person of david , lot , and others , that they remained godly , and saints , under those acts . . it is said , not proved , that gamaliel being a secret disciple of christ ; as nicodemi●● was , favoured the gospell , and the witnesses of it ; for the text insinuates no such thing , but that god used him as a morall moderate wise man , to save the apostles from death , for fear of politick inconveniences ; . anabaptists can have no better grounds then papists , for lorinus , salmeron , and some jesuites , thinke so ; they tell us that gamaliel was the master of paul , barnabas , and stephen , and counted among the martyrs , and that his body was found with the reliques of stephen and nicodemus , as baronius saith , clemens in his recog . li. . c. . beda saith , he was a companion of the apostles ; but occumenus and chrysostome say the contrary . . the best can be made out of his speech , is dissimulation to save the lives of the apostles ; for . he will have the councell to carry themselves to the gospell , the onely instrument of their salvation , as neutrals ; and wils them neither to try it , and believe , nor to persecute it . againe , if the councell must not dare to meddle with the apostles , because their way was dubious ; he proves that the councell , as magistrates , should not interpose their sword , but leave them to god , by a weake argument , because the romane magistrates left not theudas and iudas to god , but tooke order with them , and killed , and dissipated all their followers ; so that the contrary followes from his reason , that the councell should not leave them to god , and his immediate revenging hand ; for immediate providence cannot be the rule that the magistrate or church must follow in punishing ill doers , and in censuring scandals ; the revealed will of god must be their rule ; but let them alone , because god shall bring them to nought , by gamaliels logick , shal leave the rulers of church and state to immediate providence . . the councell had power of ecclesiastick censures , and of casting out of the synagogue , at which the romanes tooke no exception ; but this dialemme proves they should be left to god , as touching all censures , and that they should have leave to ruine their own soules , and the soules of millions , in a pernitious way , against moses his law , and the onely true way of god , as they conceived . chap. xxiv . whether punishing of seducing teachers , be inconsistent with the meeknesse of christ , place luke . . discussed . libertines cry much for the mansuetude and clemency of our saviour christ to be a skreen and shield betwixt false teachers and the sword . so arminians , apolog. c. . fo . . if christ will not permit to his disciples a desire of punishing , out of zeale and love to christ , to whom the samaritans denyed lodging , far lesse will he permit christians to punish hereticks for their conscience onely . but christ proves the former to come from a spirit not such as was in elias ; . that spirit is sharp and bitter . . tending to destroy lives , which i came to save . . not acceptable to me , in that you would destroy for religion , and this is against all cruelty for religion . so vaticanus , num. . so monfortius . so mimus cels . answ . . theophilactus saith , it is an example of blinde anger or zeale , the samaritans did sooner believe by clemency than by fire . but to consume a whole city , men , mothers , and sucking children , and many innocent people not for idolatry , there was need of an expresse law of god , and ( as hieronimus saith on the place ) the known will of god , though there was a law , deut. . of destroying a city that maintained idolaters , that tempted to follow strange gods , and kept out against all israel , and so defied israel and their god : yet we finde not the executing of such a temporary judiciall law , without asking at the mouth of god. here the fiery disciples shape a way of their owne to christ , in revenge , in asking fire from heaven . . neither here , nor in the case of elias , was idolatry or false worship the quarrel , but denying of an act of humanity to christ , to wit , not lodging of him ; and because christ would have nothing done or said against samaria , for this shall libertines ( i must use this name , because of the dangerous error ) infer upon the same grounds of christs meeknesse , that therefore pastors ought not sharply to rebuke , and magistrates may not in a well ordered city , reprove and punish such as refuse an open inne to innocent strangers , against the law of nature . for this conclusion followes as well as theirs . . elias desired not fire to come downe and burne cities , men , women , and sucking children , but fifty and fifty murtherers that came to kill him , or then to bring him to a tyrant , who against all law , sought his life , and so the case was not alike . . there is no ground in the text , that christ condemns elias as too severe , but the disciples at too vindictive ; and by this blasphemers , and obstinate open despisers of christ and the gospell , should not be punished . vaticanus saith , nu. . sect . seque if they deny god , and blaspheme the holy doctrine of christ , and detest the holy life of the godly , eos ego relinquo magistratibus puniendos . i leave them to be punished by the magistrats , not for their religion , for they have none . sed propter irreligionem , for their want of religion . so were the samaritans void of religion , and blasphemers and maligners of the gospell , and of christ , and ( as libertines say ) by this text not to be punished ; and yet the text declares them to be irreligious and prophane atheists , and so to be punishable . but it is not our minde ( saith mimus celsus ) pag. . to compare and resemble by this text samaritans to hereticks , and ministers of the word to magistrates , for that were to no purpose , but to condemne all cruelty flowing from desire of revenge , in the matter of religion . answ . if so , the argument is much weaker than it was , for we condemne cruelty and desire of revenge in the matter of justice , as well as of religion ; for libertines beg the question when they will have no bloodshed for blaspemy ; but it must be cruelty and desire of revenge ; for there can be no greater cruelty then for a christian magistrate to suffer bloody wolves to prey upon the flock , and false teachers to hunt soules , and destroy them . it was justice , not cruelty , yea mercy to the church of god , to take away the life of servo●us , who used such spirituall and diabolick cruelty to many thousand soules , whom he did pervert , and by his booke , does yet leade into perdition . . the mature object of the disciples furious and blinde zeale was not religion , but refusing of lodging most inhumanely to christ , because the samaritans did not receive him , for his face was as though he would go to jerusalem , luke . . and the samaritans so maliced and envied the jewes , that because he aimed to go to ierusalem , being so glorious a prophet , and famous for holinesse among them , they refused him lodging . then surely they had an esteeme of christ as a rare and singular prophet , and would have monopolized him , as a samaritan , and worker of miracles as their own , and envied that he should go to their enemies ; though i deny not that the samaritans had too base and irreligious thoughts of christ , yet that was not all the injury they did to christ . . the samaritans worshipping a false god , they know not what , joh. . and no salvation being in their religion , cannot be called hereticks ; and we confesse , to burn cities , because the in-dwellers are of a false religion , is no fit way to convert them to the true religion ; and because the apostles , to whom god hath not given the sword , but onely the spirituall armour of the word , cor. . . are not to use fire and sword , and that out of a vindictive spirit against samaritans , who despise christ and the gospell , it is no consequence . ergo , christian magistrates by this place , luke . must not use the sword against false teachers and apostates . . i grant , christ the mediator , and the embassadors of peace , whose office it is to save soules , are not to kill men because they are of another religion , then they are , or because they seduce souls ; nor are we to neglect what beza saith against monfortius , p. . in opus . de punien . heret . elias did from gods command , what he did ; the disciples call for fire , from a wild spirit . . it was not a proper function for the apostles , nor had they any extraordinary calling from god , as elias had . . there is one consideration of elias , who came to restore religion after great apostacy ; another of christ who came to propagate the gospell . i see not much inconvenience in the answer of swarez , they were not to use violence and threatning against the samaritans , but to shake the dust of their feet against them ; for christ and his disciples bare not the sword as magistrates . whatever arguments libertines extort from these places , which say christ is so meeke , as he shall not cry , nor strive , nor breake the bruised reede ; the ministers must be so gentle , that they must teach with meeknesse , isa . . , . tim. . . not strike , but be apt to teach , and keepe themselves to the foolishnesse of the gospell ; and onely shake the dust of their feet off against rejecters , acts . and not judge before the time , cor. . . for the sword may make a whole nation of hypocrites , isa . . but can never recover them out of the hands of sathan . i say whatever arguments they throw by the haire from these places , are but tokens of the prejudices of libertines . for . is not christ as meek to whores , publicans , the theife and robber on the crosse , persecutors , and to seducing teachers and hereticks ? and should not ministers in all gentlenesse , teach and instruct , drunkards , adulterers , murtherers ; yea , and as many as are taken captives in the snare of the devill at his will , and are in such a case , as god peradventure may give them repentance ? for of such speaketh the place tim. . , . and must not pastors be gentle , patient , apt to teach , and labour the conversion of all drunkards , whores , bloody men , as wel as hereticks ; what warrant have libertines to straiten the meeknesse of our saviour , and his embassadors in these scriptures , and confine and limit the sweet qualifications of christ to onely seducing teachers , whereas the word doth extend these to all sinners of what ever rank , that are slaves of sathan , but especially , if they be sin-sicke for christ , and bruised reeds ( such as seducing teachers , and wolves that worry the lambs , and lead silly women captives , are seldome ) and such sinners as the phisician came to cure ; whereas false teachers are all for the most part selfe righteous , sonnes of pride . now make an argument from these scriptures , and it concludeth , that it is against the meeknesse of christ that murtherers , drunkards , adulterers be punished by the sword , for since christ and his ministers are no lesse with all patience , gentlenesse , forbearance to instruct these , if at any time god shall give them repentance , and this strongly sinels of anabaptists and socinians way , who contend that the meeknesse of our saviour hath deposed the magistrate from his place of shedding any mans blood , be he never so notorious an il-doer , so saith socinius , catechesis , raccoviensis , ostorodius , smalcius , meek jesus warranteth no magistrate to take away any mens life for any fault , or to make warre , for the scripture wil have the meeknesse and mercy of christ ( if it stand in not punishing with bodily violence , evil-doers , as these men suppose ) to bee extended to all sinners of whatsoever kind . the argument hath no foot , except it so run , that which is no means of the converting of soules , christ will not have to be used , for the conversion of soules . but such is bodily violence , we grant al , for the sword avengeth , hurting of soules , but is not a meanes ordained of christ for the converting of soules , or if it doe , it is by accident as afflictions doe , as hos . . in their affliction , they will seeke mee early . if christ be merciful and meek , and wil have his ministers with gentlenesse and patience to instruct gain-saying sinners , then wil hee not have the magistrate to draw his swordand be severe against seducing teachers , d. adam stewart in his learned and solid answer to mr. goodwin of right de jure , denies the proposition , and so doe the learned professors of leyden answer arminians objecting the same , and say christ is meek to repenting sinners , but a severe judge and a revenger of ill-doers re. . . . . , , , . his garments are red & died with the blood of his enemies , he is so a lambe , as he is a lyon. . nor is the meeknesse of christ inconsistent with his justice , and righteousnesse , in commanding the nurse-fathers of his house , the rulers of the earth , that which the morral and perpetual standing law of god requireth , to wit , that they use the sword against il-doers , of all sorts and degrees ; for they stand together in the person of christ , who is a meeke king , zach. . and lowly and just , having salvation , and breaketh not the bruised reed , nor quencheth the smoaking flax , which is not meant of his forbearing the use of the sword , against grievous wolves that spareth not the flock , and wolves in the skin and cloathing of sheepe , seducing hereticks , for neither calvin , musculur , gualther , junius , scultetus , marlorat , nor any sound interpreter , protestant , lutheran or papist , save socinians and anabaptists professed parties , render any such sense , for not to breake or to quench by a figure merosis or litote , is to cherish , and deale meekly and tenderly with weak beleevers , that have something of the life of god ; and saving light of grace in them , as weake growing reeds , and smoaking flaxes , and it saith that christ doth cherish saving seeds of grace in them ●ay . . the lord god hath opened mine eare that i was not rebellious , that is , that i was very flexible and obedient to give my backe to the smiters , john . . him that commeth to me i will in no wise cast out , that is , i will make the beleevers dearly welcome , raise him up at the last day , and give him life eternall vers . . libertines then must say , heretickes and bloody wolves , are such tender weake beleevers , as weake reeds and smoaking floxes , and christ doth not only not use the sword against such tender ones , but he taketh wolves and sedncing teachers in his bosome , and nourisheth , and tenderly charisheth the principles of men of corrupt minds , destitute of the truth , but as christ is meek to weak ones , so is , isa . . . righteousnesse the girdle of his loynes , so psalm . . . shall be strike through kings in the day of his wrath . . and judge 〈◊〉 the heathen , and fill the places with the dead bodies , and wound the heads over many countries , and rev. . . in righteousnesse shall be judge and make war. considering the parties he hath to do with , he is meek toward the meek , but so as he destroyes his enemies , and burns their cities with fire , who will not have him to reign over them , mat. . . which yet i expound not to be the sword of the christian ruler , as if hee were an office-bearer in the church , but only bring it to prove how weak these allegorick places are , either for , or against the point in hand . to correct with the sword , and with the rod of men , as a father , is consistent with covenant-mercy and meeknesse , psal . . , , , as not to punish is one of divine wrath , hos . . . yea , to deliver scandalous persons to sathan , to excommunicate them , to thunder wrath against them , to pull them out of the fire by the haire ; that they may bee saved in the day of the lord , by as good reason , are against the meeknesse and gentlenesse of christ ; as the christian magistrates using of the sword against hereticks , if we speake of that , which is penal in both these , to wit , to be under infamy , reproach and shame , and cast out of the society of the godly . to judge before the day , cor . . is not to forbid al judging of hereticks , for except we judge them to be hereticks , how shall we beware of them , as christ biddeth us , mat. . . and eschew them , rom. . . and not bid them god speed , nor receive them into our houses , joh. . . and avoid them , tit. . . and farre lesse must a judicial tryal of jezabel be forbidden to the church of thiatira , rev. . . but it is rash judging of hidden things , as calvin , p. martir , bullinger , murlorat , pareus , beza , and the place expounds it selfe , for the corinthians crowned false teachers , defamed the sound teachers , which was to anticipate god , for it is the lord who brings to light the hidden thiugs of darknesse , and makes manifest the councells of the heart , and then every man shall have praise of god , so he manifestly forbiddeth peremptory judging , proper to god , and judging upon dark grounds known to god only , the words in the letter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iudge nothing before the time , are brought by anabaptists to prove that no christian should bee a judge , and so to judge a murtherer , is to usurpe the place of god : so the places , mat. . . and rom. . are brought by libert●nes and anabaptists , to prove that all judging is unlawful , whether of false teachers or malefactors , which is but an abusing of the word . the author of the bloody tenet saith , the sword maketh a nation of hipocrites , but converteth none , and he citeth , if. which speaketh no such thing ; but that god sendeth the sword of the assirians against an hipocriticall nation . that the sword maketh hipocrites , and men to professe the truth against their conscience ; not kindly , nor per●se , but through the corr●ption of mens hearts , who make themselves hipocrites , of it selfe , and per●se all israel fear the sword , and shall no more tempt others to go after other gods , deut. . . but that they do this in an hipocritical manner , is not from the innocent sword , but from this , that men feare him that can kill the body , more than they feare him that can destroy both soul and body in bell , mat. . . for upon this ground , the sword should make hipocrites , because for fear of the sword , men abstaine from bloodshed sorcery , paricide , sodomie , more then for feare of god , and shall therefore the magistrate not use the sword against paricides and sodomies ? so many are made hipocrites by hearing , and external performances , drawing neer to god with their lippes , when their hearts are farre from god , shall therefore the hearing of the word and the prosperity that followeth the gospell which begetteth believers for a time , who wither when the sun riseth , and shall power in the hands of the people of god , that maketh the enemies lye , and hypocritically submit , psal . . . be as unlawfull as the drawing of the sword against false teachers ? for all these beget hypocrites , but they do it by accident , not kindly ; and if we made the sword a meanes of conversion of sinners , as libertines falsly suppose , the argument should have some colour : or if drawing of the sword against seducers , were of it selfe indifferent , and yet by accident did make hypocrites , they might conclude against it , as we argue against humane ceremonies , in the supposition of many who suppose their indifferency . of this sort is the pamphleters objection , religion should not be inacted by the lawes of the magistrate , why ? it is inacted ( saith he ) already by an higher authority than any earthly king or magistrate ; and if it will not sway the conscience to obey , what can the lawes of men do ? can these cobwebs catch those that the lawes of god cannot catch . answ . there is a fallacy in the word catch , though he be but an innocent sophist , who propounds it ; for lawes of men to fence from outward disorders , cannot catch soules to convert them , as they are lawes of men ; nor teach we that acts and statutes of parliament , are the power of god to salvation , that is the honour of the preached gospell . but shall good lawes of artaxerxes , darius , for fearing the god of daniel , and obeying the god of gods , be trampled on , because they cannot come up to the power and excellency of gods lawes ? yet they so far catch , that lawes inacted upon paine of the sword , binde up hands and tongue from doing wickedly ; and this man argues against scripture , deut. . . and all israel shall heare and feare ( for the paine of stoning , and the sword of king or prince moses ) and shall do no more any such wickednesse as this amongst you . the man argues against the statutes of parliament , against sabbath-breaking , which yet catch some , neh. . . if you do so , i will lay hands on you , from that day forth , came they no more on the sabbath , externall obedience is given , that men dare not blaspheme christ , nor sweare , nor murder , nor whore , nor steale , though the authority of god , which is higher than any earthly kings , hath already forbidden blasphemy , swearing , killing . ergo , by this reason all lawes of men against evill doers should be cashiered , because they cannot catch soules , when as they are not ordained to catch soules , but to binde the outward man in fetters , that he prey not upon the soul , and body , and goods of his brethren ; yea , by this reason , men should not by ministeriall authority preach the gospell to catch men , for the gospell is inacted already by an higher authority than any on earth , king or pastor can preach , and will thy cob-web preaching , poore minister , catch whom the net of god will not catch ? all these men sway to the familist and enthysiasts hand , beware of them . so does the bloody tenet , the magistrate should not send the heretick to the church , to heale the heretick ; why ? like mother , like daughter , perhaps he sends an heretick to be healed by hereticks . answ . master williams cannot finde a church on earth , but a false and hereticall church to heale a seeker , familist , or anabaptist . but say it were so , should not the magistrate hezekiah exhort the priests to teach the people , and deale with the people , who think baal to be the true god , because the priests do also thinke baal perhaps the true god , which if hezekiah do , sure he is a miserable physitian , but ( saith he ) the poore heretick disputes with the church that shall deliver him over to the bloody sword , if he will not yeeld , as the lambe in the lions paw , being sure to be torne in pieces in the end . answ , this author makes ever the supposition of himselfe , as if he were infallible , we may suppose the heretick is a ravening wolfe , and that he obstinately , and as a selfe condemned man disputes ; and that the magistrate is the lambe and the minister of god , who loves not to strike with the sword ; and the question is not , whether he should yeeld reason and conscience up for feare of the sword , but whether he should abstaine from prophecying lies in the name of the lord , and should say , god sent him to contradict ieremiah , and to assure the kingdome of iudah , they shall neither see sword nor famine , jer. . notwithstanding the godly prince ( we suppose such a king then in iudah ) should assure him he should be stoned to death , if he shall thus pervert the right wayes of the lord , should not the magistrate be a terrour to all ill doers , and to such a wolfe ? there can no argument be drawne from magistrates that are lions and tygers , persecuting the saints of god for the truth , as this author alwaies vainly supposeth . chap. xxv . whether the rulers by their office , in order to peace , are to stand to the lawes of moses , for punishing seducing teachers . jvdiciall lawes may be judiciall and mosaicall , and so not obligatory to us , according to the degree and quality of punishment , such as is deut. . the destroying the city , and devoting all therein to a curse ; we may not do the like in the like degree of punishment , to all that receive and defend idolators and blasphemers in their city : and yet that some punishment by the sword , be inflicted upon such a city , is of perpetuall obligation ; because the magistrate beares the sword to take vengeance on ill doers , and so on these that are partakers of his ill deeds , who brings another gospell , ioh , v. . . though sauls destroying of the amalekites in that cause was morall , in regard they lay in wait for israel , when they came out of egypt , and so of perpetuall obligation , yet the destroying of them , sam. . is temporary , and obligeth not us ; . because that generation were their sons , not those same persons that oppressed israel , when they came out of egypt , and we may not punish the sonnes for the sinnes of their fathers with death ; therefore gods po●itive command to saul , and the reason , i remember what amalek did ( in moses his time ) therefore kill them , does not oblige us , except we had the like command . . because the slaying of man , woman , infant , and suckling , oxe and sheep , was temporary , and cannot have a perpetually obligatory ground in the law of nature or naturall justice obliging us . . where there is an injury done to god , against the law of nature , and against our brethren , in drawing them from serving the true god , and a punishment commanded by god to be inflicted once ; that punishment , or the like in substance and nature , must ever be such as obligeth us in the like cases . the learned professors in leidon say , they can see no reason but they must oblige under the new testament . i confesse when the fault is ceremoniall , though the punishment be reall , as the cutting off of an infant not circumcised , and some punishments inflicted on the leper , it is not reason the law should oblige us in the new testament , either as touching the punishment or the degree . because these punishments for typicall faults are ordained to teach , rather than to be punishments , and the magistrate by no light of nature could make lawes against unbaptised infants . . no man but sees the punishment of theft is of common morall equity , and obligeth all nations , but the manner or degree of punishment is more positive : as to punish theft by restoring foure oxen for the stealing of one oxe , doth not so oblige all nations , but some other bodily punishment , as whipping , may be used against theeves . mr. jo. weemes , vo . . ca. . of the judiciall law , the determination ( saith he ) in moses law judiciall , was divini juris , and they had greater force to binde the sonnes , than any municipall lawes have to binde subjects new , in regard they were given by god himselfe ; yet these judiciall lawes ( saith he ) commanded the outward man , whereas the morall law called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ignea lex , deu. . this fiery law pierceth the heart . gamachaeus saith , iuditials and ceremonials are immediately deduced out of the principles of the law of nature ▪ by way of a more remote and obscure conclusion . aquinas saith , by way of divine determination . but the truth is , the proposition might have some ground in the law of nature , but why . stripes , not , . not . only should be inflicted on such an evill doer , and the assumption in many judiciall lawes ▪ seeme to be an act of the meere positive will of god , therefore aquinas saith , ceremonials primo & per●●se , first and chiefly were ordained to signifie things , but iudicials secundarie did signifie things to come . and swarez saith , that judi●ials aecessarily , and by accident , did signifie things . it is true , cori●thus , 〈…〉 and ●erome saith , and the ebionits , as irenaeus saith , and the nazarer , as augustine tels us , hold that ceremoniais and judicials do yet oblige . shoolemen deny their obligation as soto , aquinas , medina , valentia , gamacheus , because the priesthood is changed . yet let not us go on with egid-coninck to say , that if it was lawfull to make war with any nation for wrongs done to men , how much more for injuries done to god ? for making of war is an act of magistracy , and so suppose some jus , some power and authority , that we have either by the law of nature , to defend our life , peace , liberties , or for avenging of such heineous in●uries done to the nation as cannot in justice be decided , but by the sword . so that sin , as sin , or as greatest sinnes , are not the just cause of war , but sinnes as most distructive to humane society , for which by the principles of the law of nature , they may be convinced of fearfull breaches ; now these that are idolators , the nations that worship god in idolatrous way , and being of a strange religion , worship a strange god , though they doe the greatest injury to god that can bee , yet in regard they being other nations as independent on us , as we are on them ; and doe it not in order to the destruction of our of our paece , liberty , and lives , we have not jus over them , nor authority to make warre with them , except god gave us a command to destroy them , nor is this a good consequence , we may by war revenge injuries done to men , erg● , far more , by war , may we revenge injuries done to god : for war is an act of revenging justice : that supposeth some authority given of god , over such a nation as we come out against in war. every just war is some way defensive , in regard every act of magistracy , is an act of defending of the peace , life , and liberty of the society , or the members thereof , and a propulsion of violence , by violence ; and this is the intrinsecal and of magistracy , to hold off unjust violence , by just and harmelesse violence ; for if the life of a murther●r be not taken away by the sword of a magistrate , he will still take the life of another man , qui semel ●alus , semper malus presumitur , ●e that is once wicked , is still presumed to be wicked , except his wickednesse be restrained , and to offend a nation or person that hath not offended us , must be unjust violence , and unlawfull war : and to make war against a nation that hath worshiped a strange god , and injured god , and not us , supposeth that we must instruct them of a wrong done to god , by teaching them , and instructing them in the true religion : for suppose they worship the workes of mens hands , and worship sathan as some indians do and so by their own conscience may be convinced , and so are inexcusable in foro dei , before gods tribunal , yet are they not so inexcusable , in foro humano , before mans tribunall , as we can make warre against them , till we informe and instruct them positively of the true religion . but they that shed our blood , and invade our peace and liberties , are by the law of nature convinced , and by demands of reparation made to them , quickly silenced , and need not to be instructed in the principles of the law of nature , which are written in their hearts . but it may be said , what if that nation will not be informed of the true religion , and will go on contumatiously to dishonour god , and reproach the true god ? shall we not upon a meer quarrell for religion , make war against them , and avenge the injuries done to god , and defend his truth , no lesse then with the sword , we defend our own lives and liberties ? i answer there is not the like reason : for god and nature have given to the strongest , a jus and authority over oppressors , to repel unjust violence , with innocent violence but that we should force the true religion on idolators , we have not the like ground , except they did attempt to obtrude their false ways upon us , and injure our soules : for there is a vast difference between a people never receiving the true religion , and a people who have imbraced , and submitted to lawes , that have inacted the profession of the true religion : those that never professed the true religion , cannot bee compelled to receive it by the sword of another nation , except they first subdue them in a just warre , and be masters of them , and they may educate the posterity of the subdued people , and discharge the duty of parents to them , and impose lawes on themselves , to cast away the idols of their fathers house , and to learn the knowledge of the true god : but they cannot make the not receiving of the true religion the ground of a war : for we read not of any such cause of war in the scripture . it is true , god did command his people to destroy the canaanites , but idolatry was not the quarrell , josh . . . there was not a nation that made pe●●● with the children of israel , save the hittites the inhabitants of gibe on all ( other ) they tooke in battell , . for it was of the lord to harden their heart , that they should come against israel in battell , that he might destroy them utterly , and that they might have no favor , but that he might destroy them as the lord commanded moses . and those that they subdued in the wildernesse , denied them harmelesse passage through their land. it is true , some popish writers , as masius , cornelius a lapide , abulensis say , if the canaanites would have sought peace , and imbraced the worship of the true god , the israelites would not have destroyed them , but the text , calvin and famous papists , as cajetanus , swarez . gamacha●s , and augustine before them , say plainly , israel made warre against them , and israel but defended themselves against the canaanites . libertines say the teaching of the gospell , mat. . and not the sword , is a means to spread the gospell , so say we , i see no warrant wee have to obtrude the gospell in the purity thereof , upon papists in france and ireland : but we may lawfully avenge the blood of the people of god on irish murtherers , who excercise extreame cruelty and tyranny over persons and the consciences of the martyrs , and the oppressed people of god amongst the papists . the question seemes harder , when these of a false religion , in regard of their neernesse , and vicinitie to a kingdome professing the true religion , when as they may infect them , or if they be in one nationall covenant , and under the oath of god , to indeavour , the extirpation of all false religions , and what is contrary to sound doctrin . it is certain , the kingdom of judah might justly have avenged the apostacy of the ten tribes from davids house , and from jerusalem where the lord had set his name , for the worshipping of the golden calves , if the lord by his prophet had not expresly forbidden them to fight against their brethren kings . and the children of israel did justly attempt warre against the two tribes and the halfe , because they erected a new altar for worship , as they conceived , which was apostacy from the covenant of god , and the true religion which they were to maintaine by the oath of joshua . , , , . and to bring the wrath of god on all the tribes as achan did , vers , , no doubt , saith calvin on the place , they were angry with an holy zeale , for sayth hee on vers . . the sword is not given to every man in his hand , but every one according to his calling ought ( by this place ) manifestly and constantly to defend the true religion . and if the wrath of god came on all the people ( saith calvin ) for the secret sinne of one man , much more the people shall not goe unpunished , if they dissemble the manifest idolatry of many . piscator saith , it was piety in the tribes that they resolve to make warre with the two tribes and the halfe , for their defection from the true god such was their zeale ( say the divines of england ) that they would rather hazzard their lives , then suffer gods true religion to bee corrupted ; for god had ordained there should bee but one place for publique service , and sacrifices , and but one altar leviticus . , . deut. . . . . . exodus . . deut. . . for they were all in covenant with one god , and this was a schisme and an apostacy from the church , ( saith diodat . ) in which alone is the true service of god and the participation of his grace , and covenant . so also the geneva notes approves the lawfullnesse of the warre , and the dutch annotations . to this accord also , asvatablus , cajetanus , cornelius a lapide , who commend this zeale , and say all the twelve tribes made but on state and one church , and tostatus saith , there was a necessity of making war with the two tribes , because the law commanded it , deut. . therefore they tooke not councell whither they should make warre , but they consulted touching the manner . so agreeth hugo cardinalis , so masius . so sorrarius . lyra saith , warre should not be undertaken , but upon a certaine and just cause , especially against friend , therefore they send messengers to the two tribes , to try the cause of the new altar . menochius , out of zeale they sent messengers to try the crime of idolatry , and to bring them to repentance , if not , to make destructive warre against them . and ferus , they were readie , if the two tribes obeyed not , armis dicernere , 〈◊〉 decide the matter by warre . would god ( saith he ) there were such zeale in us , and we see not one altar erected , but a number of superstitious altars . from this place it is cleere , when a kingdome , or two kingdomes are united together , and confederate by the oath of god in one religious covenant , they become an ecclesiastick body , so as the whole may challenge any part that maketh defection , and labour to gaine them , and if they contumaciously resist , they are with the sword to decide the matter , lest wrath from the lord breake out on the whole confederate body ; as for the sinne of one 〈◊〉 , wrath came upon all israel : nor can i well see what can be answered on the contrary , except that that warre for the new altar , was undertaken upon judiciall and temporary warrants , which do not binde us under the new testament . but this is said , not proved , that new altar was not a heap of stones ; but if it had been made upon religio●s grounds , and for the service of god , it had been no lesse than an apostacy from that true religion once delivered by god. then if the third part of scotland and england should turne apostates from the religion once sworne , after they had bound themselves in covenant : the question remaineth , what should the state and parliament doe in that case ? should they be indifferent beholders , and not use the sword against such apostates ? swarez and others , not without reason , thinkes that infidels that are not subjects , and not apostates , cannot be compelled to imbrace the true faith , even though it be sufficiently proposed to them , his reasons are , there is no lawfull power given to the church by jesus christ to compell such . . it is no tradition of the church . . those that are without cannot be judged ; but the truth is , the sword is not given to the church , as the church ; and in the spreading of the gospell , the lord forbids the use of the sword . it is true , a christian prince may deny to infidels liberty to dwell in his bounds . see weemes , vo . . expos . of the iudiciall law , cap. . and subjects may be compelled not to blaspheme christ , not to dishonour the true god with manifestly professed impieties ; for if asa made a law , chron. . that they that would not seeke the true god , should be put to death : if that be temporary and judaicall , then the christian magistrate is not as a christian magistrate , or as a nurse-father , esai . . . so much as to command any to serve christ , nor to rebuke any for blasphemies . sure this can be no part of the peaceablenesse of christs kingdome , not to rebuke sinners : but nurse-fathers and civill tutors must do something for the defence of the truth from errors ; for constantine the great closed the temples of heathen gods , to the end that heathenish idolatry might be abolished , as euschius saith ; see also ruffinus , iovianus , and nicephorus , iustinian made many lawes against idolators . before constantine the great would pardon arrius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be exacted an oath of him , that he should stand to the nicen faith , and he sware , but dissembled . so socrates ; then arrius was punishable by the emperour . so timotheus colo● , bishop of constantinople , under anastius first emperour , was an euty●hen , and cursed such as rejected the synod of chalcedon , and before the emperour cursed such as approved the synod of chalcedon ; so theod. anagnostes , petrus mongus , bishop of alexandria under zonon the emperour , was an eutichen , then againe orthodox , a little after he rejected the councell of chalcedon ; a little after in an epistle to acacius bishop of alexandria , he professed the sound faith , and denyed that he rejected the councell of chalcedon ; againe he rejects that counsell , and the sound faith ; therefore evagrius tels him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a shoe , for every foot , a turne-coat , and a time-server . ergo , such hereticks , beside that they have not been innocent and godly ( as arminians say ) they feared the sword of the magistrate . but as touching the practice of emperors , and the imperiall laws for ratifying church constitutions , there be but too many of them ; as also for gathering councels ; which proveth the coactive power of princes , kings , and emperours , over hereticks and seducing teachers . constantius , i grant , made a law , that some godly men should be tolerated , ut pa●em cum fidelibus i● qui errant ( he saith not hereticks ) pacis est quietis fruitionem gaudentes accipiant . eusebius in vita constan . and though the emperour grotian decreed , vt quam quisque vellet religionem sequerentur , that all religions should be free , he had much ad● in warres with the gothes , who wasted thracia , and was therefore carefull that ambrose should draw up a short confession , yet did he except from the toleration the manichees , the phocinians , the eunomians . but see , codice prima lege . cunctos populos de sum . trinit . martianus ibid lege . . synod chalcedo , leo imperator , cons . . c. const . . heracl●us imperator , const . . de fide justinianus novellus . c. . novell . c. . honorius , l. . c. . eccle. valentinianus , l. . de episc . cler . novell . . c. . novella . c. . &c. le. const . . novell . . c. . eusebius pamphil de vita , constan . l. . c. . surius tom . . concil . c. . p. . codic . l. . tit. de heret . lex . ● . justinian codex l. . tit. . de sum . trinit lex . surius concil . tom . . p. , . & tom . . p. , , . socra scholastic . his . l. . c. . nicepher● hist . l. . c. . contur . magdeburque col . . so for his power to conveene councels , as the nicen , by constanti , euseb . l. . c. . sozom , l. . c. . so●rat . l. . c. . ruff. l. . c. . theodor. l. . c. . the councell of tyre by constant . eusebius , de vit . cons . l. . c. . sozom. l. . c. . theodosius elder , made a law of death against the anabaptists , and banished eu●●mius socrat. l. . c. . it is true , constantinus and licinius , as eusebius tels us , l. . c. . say in a law , now therefore we freely will and command , that every man have a free liberty to observe the christian religion , and that , without any griefe or molestation , he may be suffered to do the same . but the practice of heathen emperous , is no rule . . god opened their hearts to make these lawes in favour of christians . . they had experience of the favour of god by the prayers of christians . . the heathen law in the letter would prove that none should be rebuked , or argued against , whatever religion he chose ; maximius proclaimed , that all men should use what religion they like best , eus . l. . c. . but . maximius , out of naturall pity , because he had before persecuted christians , did this . . dioclesian and maximianus tooke churches from them , he restored them ; hence followed peace till an . . the councell of constantinople , . by theodosius senior , theodoret , l. ● c. . socrates , l. . c. . the councell of ephesus , . by theodos . junior . evagrius , l. . c. . so imperator iustinus . l. . ad maenam patriarcham de monachis & monasteriis separandis & de episc . & cler . eusebius de vita cons . l. . c. . epistolam libella ad synoda constitutionem . the bishops of the second generall councell ( if there was any of them generall ) writ to the emperour theodosius , we desire your clemency , that you by your letters would confirme the decrees of the councell ( of chalcedon ) and command that it be ratified and established : which he did . see also constantius his power , prescribing to the councels of arimimon and seleucea the subject matter they should treat upon , and commanded ten of each councel to come and give him an account of their proceedings . s●zomen , l. . c. . toeodosius and valentin● command the councell of ephesus to send them some bishops to acquaint them with the causes and motives of their deliberations . relatio synodi ephesinae , quae est tom . . concil . the second councell of nice , which some call the seventh generall councell , relate the like to the emperour at constantinople , theodoret , l. . c. . zonaras , tom . . anat . there be two edicts of the emperours , valentinian and martian , confirming the councel of chalcedon , so act . . chalc. to . . conc. all which say , the emperours , de facto , commanded as magistrates , church-men to determine according to the word ; and corrected such as contravened . and though picus mirandula saith well , no man hath power of opinions so , as if hee will , he may have another opinion , which though it may beare , that opinions fall not under free-will , yet the venting of them to others , is to mirancula , a free act and punishable . we know the edict of vale●inian and martian , of capitall punishment against such as shall attempt to teach things unlawfull . let false teachers according to justinian , have no leave to live and dwel in roman bounds , saith pametius . augustine saith , hereticks kill soules , let them be afflicted in body , they bring on men death eternal , and they complaine that they suffer temporall deaths . and why ( saith augustine ) should sorcerers find the rigor of the law from emperors , and hereticks and schismaticks go free ? constantius gave out edicts against hereticks , as eusebius saith . h. . c. . and also made lawes of pecuniary fines , and mulcts against them . honorius made lawes against donatists of fining and of banishing preachers of donatisme . martianus did the like . the like saith nazianz ▪ of theodosius the great . banishment and other punishment , the emperours inflicted upon arrius , macedonius , nestorius , futiches and their followers . which the arch-bishop of spalato m●de dominis granteth ; though he sayes augustine excepteth capitall punishment , for such ( saith he ) he will not have to be inflicted for the conscience , which is a manifest depraving of the mind of augustine , who will have such punishment according to the quality of the fault inflicted on them , as upon sorcerers and murtherers . let augustine be considered in these and other places , after hee retracted his too meeke sentence , that they should not be punished at all . alexander alexandrinus said , arrius and his followers ought to bee punished with excommunication , and a curse , theodoret. lib. . c. . but for the point in hand the christian magistrate is tyed and obliged to these punishments to bee inflicted for morall offences , that the law of god hath ordained , at least in nature : i prove . that which is morrall , and cannot be determined by the wisdome and will of man , must be determined by the revealed will of god in his word ; but the punishment of a seducing prophet , that ruineth the soule of our brother , and makes him twofold more the childe of sathan than before , is morrall and cannot be determined by the wisdome and will of man : ergo , such a punishing of a seducing prophet , must be by the revealed will of god in his word . the proposition is proved . . because god only , not moses , nor any other law-giver under him , taketh on him to determin death to be the adulterers punishment , levit. . . and the same he determineth to be the punishment of willfull murther , exod. . . of smiting of the father or mother , v. . of man-stealing , vers . . of sorcery , exod. . . of beastiality . . of sacrificing to a strange god , vers . . and upon the same reason , god only , not any mortall man , must determine the punishment due to such as seduce soules to eternall perdition . for what reason can be imagined , why god can be the onely determiner of such a punishment of killing , and not for the ruining the soul and making him the childe of perdition . let not any say by this reason , to tempt to any sin , by any evill counsel ●● provocation to immoderate anger or envy , should deserve death , for every tempting to sinne is a ruining of the soul of such as we give bad counsell unto , and tempt to sin . answ . if we do so tempt them by a sinfull way , as a sinfull injuring , and railing on them , or by a wicked course , it is sure it doth deserve punishment by the magistrate ; but the act of so counselling and tempting to sin , though e●conditione operis , it be soule-ruin , yet it is not such as deserveth death . otherwayes , killing , adultery , sorcery , beastiality , tempt also to sinne and soule-ruine , besides the other injury in them , against the life and ch●stity of men . the proposition is proved , because the will of god can be the creator , and first author of nothing , but which is morrally good . for the scripture is as full in the duties of the second table touching mercy and righteousnesse , as in the duties of the first , touching piety and religion , and any thing pretended to be morrall , hath god for its authour , in either the first or the second table of the law , nor can the will of man be the author of any thing morrally good , and will-righteousnesse , is as unlawfull as will-worship , or will-piety , since the word is a perfect rule in matters of doctrine , or faith , or of life , manners and conversation , and teacheth the judge what he should doe , deut. . , , . psalm . . . psalm . . , . prov. . , , , &c. what ever by order of justice , doth concerne the life and death of our neighbour , rewarding or punishing him in name , body , goods , so as if it bee justly inflicted , it is justice ; and if unduely and undeservedly , it is unjustice , and murther : as wronging of him in his body by stripes , wounding , death ; in his liberty by prison ; in his goods , by fines ; that must be determined in the word by him that is lord of life , death , libertie , of our name and goods , otherwayes the word should not teach us when the judge sinnes , when not , when he makes just lawes , when unjust , when he exceeds in punishing , when he is deficient . i come to the assumption , the punishing of a seducing prophet is morrall . in that it is commanded to father and mother , not to pitty him , deut. . . holden forth as the zeale of god , in father and mother , under the messia●s kingdome , zach. . , , , , , . and every one is forbidden , to bid him god speed , yea , and commanded to deny him an act of humanity , and hospitality , and not receive him in his house , joh. . if we be commanded to put any shame on him , far more must the ruler bee taught of god , what shame he should put on him . for what ever under the new testament is capable of a command , is morall . and if morall , what the magistrate should doe to him can no more be determined by the will and wit of man , than it can be determined what punishment the magistrate must inflict upon the murtherer , the adulterer , the sorcerer , the sodomite ; which all the wisdom of god hath determined : in the word , otherways god hath left the magistrate in the dark , that from the word he hath no direction , when he committeth murther , or when he doth acts of justice . and that it is a morall act also to seduce soules is cleare , in that , . we are commanded to beware of such . matth. . . and avoid them , tit. . . rom. . . . that the lord condemneth them in his word , as such as make their followers the children of perdition , yea matth. . . they subvert the hearers ; their word cate as a canker , tim. . , . lead silly women captive , tim. . are deceivers , tit. . . now that god hath appointed a punishment for this of old , and hath spoken against this sinne so much in the new testament , and bidden private christians , cry shame on seducers , and fly them , and yet left the magistrate under a discharge , and inhibition to draw a sword against such : who can beleeve it ? except that inhibition given to the christian magistrate wer written in the testament of our lord. to say the new testament-dispensation is so spirituall that god wil have no remedying of seducing , but by the spirituall armor of the word , is said without ground , when the new testament-dispensation is as spirituall to gaine the sorcerer , the the●fe , the sodomite , the drunkard , the reviler , as the idolater by the spirituall a●mor of the word , act. . . cor. . , , . and by this reason the magistrate may draw the sword against no theife , sodomite , drunkard , sorcerer , contrary to rom. . , , , , , . pet. . . especially since the magistrate is not indifferent towards ill-doers , and well-doers , since hee must punish the one as a nurse-father , praise and reward the other , peter . . gaining of soules is well-doing , matthew . , . and seducing of soules is by the law of nature and nations , the worst of injuries done to men . argument , that which is perpetually morall , and one act of justice at all times and places , must oblige us christians , and the christian magistrate , as well as the jewish rulers : but to punish the seducing prophet is perpetually morall , and an act of justice at all times , and in all places , as the rewarding of such as teach truth , is a commendable act of justice , ergo , the proposition is cleare , in regard the morall law doth therefore oblige us christians , because it is morally perpetuall , and perpetually morall ; and that in all times and places ▪ as to serve god , honour our parents , not to murder , &c. is perpetually morall now , as among jewes , with us , as among the indians and tartarians : but to punish the seducing prophet is such ; . because the heretick is condemned by his owne conscience , tit. . . in believing lies ergo , farre more by his owne conscience , by leading others into that same condemnation with himselfe ; and if he apprehend the vengeance of a god-head , there must be a conscience naturally apprehending such : as we see the conscience of murtherers , and of cain , feare some revenging hand . if therefore the minister of god , the magistrate , inflict this , it must be nothing else but an act of naturall justice , which the naturall conscience doth apprehend . but what acts of justice the conscience naturally feares , must be acts of justice perpetually morall , not respecting one man or nation more than another . . all countries by an instinct , apprehend a god , and conceive their priests and prophets are to be entertained and rewarded , as egypt , gen. . . midian , f●xed , . . exod. . . judg. . . c. . . king. . . the philistims , sam. . . c. . . baal and the zidonians had their priests , king. . , , lycainia , act . . and if their rulers feed their priests , the false prophets and priests that deceive them , and mis-lead them , they must punish : so the king of babylon roasted in a fire two false prophets , jer. . , . and it is cleare , that jeremiah argues not from any judiciall law , when he saith , the prophets that speake lies in the name of the lord , shall die by the sword , c. . v. , . it was by the sword of the chaldeans , ( who had nothing but the law of nature ) that they perished ; for no judiciall law of god taught them , that he ought to die by the sword of the magistrate , who speaks lies in the name of the lord ; whereas the chaldeans knowing that jeremiah had prophecied truth , and was sent of god , they intreated him well , as the lord had fore-told , ier. . . nor can it be said , that the consequence is null , and that that cannot oblige christian magistrates , which hath no better warrant than the corrupt practises of heathens ; for they persecuted the true prophets and apostles that spake in the name of the lord ; as herod beheaded iames , acts . and apprehended peter . nero persecuted paul , and d●mitian confined iohn to the isle pathutos for the word of god. to which i answer , that the argument is not drawn simply from the practice of heathen magistrates , but from the light of nature , that teacheth all magistrates , heathen and christian , to punish publike impostors , false prophets and liers , as most pernitious enemies to the peace of all humane societies . and if the law of nature and nations dictate to all societies , that deceivers , and such as raise false reports and lies upon earthly judges , should be punished ; far more is it a principle of the law of nature , that publike lyers , and such as speake lies in the name of the lord , and deceive and seduce the soules of father and mother , king and ruler , and of all ranks of men in the society , should not be tollerated in the society . and what though emperours and kings have abused the power that god gave them for the truth , to persecute the servants of christ for the truth , it followes not , but they had just power , as the ministers of god , to punish seducing prophets , as well as other ill-doers , by the law of nature and nations . and this i take is holden forth by iob , , , , . who being under no judiciall law , obliging the jewes , but a gentile , and so in this led by the law of nature and nations , maketh idolatry and worshipping of the sunne and moone , to be an iniquity to be punished by the iudge . that this is not an iniquity to be punished by god ( as if heresie be innocency , as libertines say , it must neither be punished by god nor man ) but by the judge on earth is cleare . for . the expression , v. . varies onely in the number from that which is v. . now there iob saith of adultery 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & ipsum iniquitas iudicum . and ver . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etiam hoc iniquitas iudie is . the english divines do well observe , that adultery is a capitall crime to be punished by the iudge , gen. . . levit. . . deut. . . and they expound ver . . the same way . pagnin . est iniquites iudicanda , iudice di●na , vel iuditiaria . mercerus , exod. . , he shall give 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the iudges , isai . . . do , iudgement . shimlerus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 judges that cognos●● of causes . deut. . . our enemies being iudges , job . . inquitas dignaque iudicetur & puniatur . it is true , the lxx , expound it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the chalde paraphrase , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , est enim iniquitas maxima . but it is taken for a crime that comes before an earthly judge . so hieronimus . and exod. . . if a man strike a woman with childe , and she live , he shall give according to the sentence of the iudges . hieronimus quantum arbitri iudicaverint . the chalde paraphrase , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & dabit per sent●ntiam iudicum . lxx . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the syriak , dabit quantum decernent iudices . the samaritan , dabitque ex sententia iudicum . vatablus , job . v. . iniquitas capitali supplicio persequind● , v. . nam & ea iniquitas capitali supplicio digna . junius , iniquitas à iudicibus animadvertenda . piscator , iniquitas iudiciaria . complutentes , iniquitas judicanda . pineda in job . . iniquitas digna iudicio , iudicumque sententiâ severissima & gravissimo supplicio . all agree to this , that idolatry , according to iob , from the law of nature , deserveth canitall punishment to be inflicted by the judge . and pi●eda saith , this agreeth with the law of god. especially , deut. . . & . sanctius gathereth from job . . that adulterers in iobs time were , by the sentence of the judge burnt . now the same expression is , v. . spoken of idolatry . hence is socrates condemned to die for his false religion , as is supposed by the people . maximus condemned the priscillia●s , as hieronimus observes for heresie . nor is it much to be valued , that ier. taylor saith , that maximus was a tyrant , and put to death catholike hereticks . without choyce , it proves punishing of hereticks , as supposed of old to be warranted by law . vrsatus and stacius procured at court , law to death against priscillianists . and the niceue fathers , that arrius should be banished . nor doth spalato cite tertullian , cyprian , lactantius , hi●rome , severus , sulpitius , minutius , hilary , damascen , chrysestome , theophilact , bernard , for any other purpose ( whatever taylor say on the contrary ) but . to prove , that forcing of men to religion , is not to the way of god , which also i teach ; for the preaching of the word ; not the using of the sword , is the meanes of conversion of sinners . that killing is not to be practised on all hereticks . . that the law and the sword , are not to go without convincing of the conscience by the word of god. . that to deliver up godly men to persecuting tyranes , because of some errors , hath more scandall to cause men stumble at truth , than to make truth victorious . . that neither church nor state can judge heart-opinions , nor punish them , but only professed and taught opinions , that are both unnecessary and unsound . . that pastors have not the sword , to compell to religion . . that nations of another religion are not gained to christ by the sword ; not can we make warre against them , because they are idolators , and follow a false religion ; nor was idolatry the ground of the warre that israel raised against the ca●aanitos and other nations . to all which i adde the words of ier. taylor . the best and ablest doctors in christendome have been deceived actually in 〈◊〉 of religion , in that all sorts of christians dissent from the error● of papias , irenaeus , lactantius , iustin martyr , cyprian , firmilian , &c. ergo , by taylors sentence , we are not rest , much upon the fathers , whether they be for or against liberty of conscience . for course to be taken with pagans ( to speake by the way ) all that lactantius , l. . c. . tertulli ad scap●lam , c. . augustine , ser . . de verb. dom . c. . cont . lite ▪ petitian ▪ lib. . c. . we approve , and what famous schoolmen , 〈◊〉 , thomas , bannes , durandus , palud●●● richardus , 〈…〉 , paluda , and that of augustine ▪ s●● . . de verb dom. c. . glandiendum est paganu , ut audiant veritatem , in christianis vero secanda putredo . pagans must be allured , and not compelled by warres to the faith . because the just cause of warre must either be an open breach of nations against the law of nature ; for it must be a finne , of which a multitude may easily be , or are convinced of ; as is cleare in the a●●lekites , and all the nations who invaded israel , josh . . v. , . or then in a visible church , it must be for manifest apostacy from the covenant of god , and 〈◊〉 religion , as the new altar supposed to be erected by the two trib●● and the halfe against the only one altar commanded by god see cavarruvias in regnum paccatum part . sect . . setus in . distin . . . . art . . molina de justitia disp . , and bann●s . g. . art . . saith , that paul the third defined well , that the westerne indians being capable of life eternall , were true lords of their possessions , and could not be justly deprived thereof . to tollerate jewes openly blaspheming christ , or to receive them in the common-wealth , cannot be allowed , or to suffer them to have synagogues , in regard they blaspheme the god we are in covenant with , and doe no lesse deny him , then goliah and senacharib did , . but simply seduced jewes are to bee instructed , for there is a peculiar prophecy touching the jewes , rom. . jer. . , . that they shall bee brought in to know christ , and beleeve in him . argument , that which was a meere judiciall law , and not onely in no force now , as touching any obligation to bodily punishment from the christian magistrate , is now under the gospell , either a sin offensive to humane society or , . no sin , but innocency , as some say , or then . ● thing lndifferent . if it be a sin offensive to humane society , and the people of god , to drive them away from the lord their god , and an abomination that israel should feare to doe , in the dayes of moses and before christ came , as is cleare , deut. . , , , , , , , , . it must be so now : for since it is not a typicall , but a morall sin , it is at all times , and in all places to us , and now , and to them , and then , an abomination . ergo the argument of the holy ghost being perpet●all , that it is destructive to humane society , the lord must provide the same , or as effectuall means , for the remedying thereof . but if the christian magistrate have no place or power to represse such abominations , but isreal may seduce men after false gods , and not feare the stroke of 〈◊〉 sword , then hath the lord left the church to the lust of ●avenous wolves that destroy the flocke , and hath left these wolves to the lords immediate hand of judgement : for rebukes , church-censures are not to be used against them , upon the same ground that the sword should not be drawne against them , by the ground of libertines : for rebukes and church-censures doe . . force the conscience no lesse than the sword . . they beget hypocrites . . are as contrary to the law of meeknesse and gentlenesse of christ and his servants , who used no such way to gaine the samaritans , and other gaine-sayers , as the sword is repugnant to christs meek administration , who did not use either sword , crying , rebukes , or excommunication , against broken reeds , though both these may be used against seducers in great gentlenesse and tendernesse toward their soules , by fathers in state or church . . they are no lesse against liberty of prophecying , beleiving with a reserve to beleeve the contrary , than the sword . for how can we in the name of the lord , rebuke , threaten eterned wrath , deliveto , sathan , seducers , more than the magistrate can use the sword against them , yea , or refute their errors , in the name and authority of christ , or strike with his rod , since wee are not infallibly perswaded more than these we call seducers , for they may upon the same grounds call us seducers , threaten us with eternall wrath , and deliver us to sathan , in the same name and authority that the sound church proceedeth against them ; for neither side had the infallibility of divine authority , in a reflex knowledge , more than others , by the doctrine of libertines . . they are no lesse contrary to growing up in knowledge and new light ; for contrary reasons , and rebukes , and threatnings are as apt to expell new light , and to reduce the seducer to old darknesse , for any certainty of perswasion any of the sides have , for both may see beside their book , and dreame the moone is made of wax , by this way , and instructing of teachers that see but on this , and the yonder side of truth with e●●s of flesh , as they say , is as uneffectuall a remedy against teachers , as the sword . . since the sword and stoning , when used by the jewes , deut. . presupposeth infallibility . what warrant doe our lords of licence of conscience give us , that all the commons , and lads , and girles that lifted a stone against the seducer , had proph●ticall , infallibility : or that every wife , to whom her husband might say , let us go and follow baal and dagon , for sure the zid●nians and philistines are a people taught of god as well as we , was infallible in her knowledge and unerrable , and the husband an erring seducer according to the principles that masters of licence would lead us on : for there must be a response given to all and every one to beleeve this is the seducer , from the light of moses law , else they had no more right to stone the seducer , then the seducer to stone them . for as wee may erre in persecuting true prophets , i hope so did the people kill the prophets , and stone them that were sent , matth. . and chron. . . they mocked and misused the prophets of god , and did as foully erre in persecuting , as now we under the gospell . yet mr. goodwin gives to the jewes an infallibility of an oracle to tell them who was the man to be stoned , as a seducer . but let him answer these queries . did the oracle speak immediately to all the actors in the stoning ? i thinke no : then the oracle spake to the priest only . to pashur ; then the officers had but the word of peshur to put jeremiah in the stockes , and the people had but the priests word for stoning the man. query , were the people infallible in discerning the priest to be a true relater of the mind of god from the oracle ? how beleeved they then some lying priests who persecuted the prophets of god ? query , was the priest infallible in discerning the oracle and relating the mind of god to the people ? how then did they say , he is worthy to dye ? how did caiaphas say , what need we any more witnesse , we have heard himself blaspheme ? were not the priests deut. . ver . . to judge according to the sentence of the law of god delivered to moses ? was this an immediate oracle of infallibility , such as bellarmin , becanus , gretsorus , valentia corn. a lapide ascribe to their appollo at rome ? i thinke mr. goodwin cannot say that . if he doe , i know what to answer to the papists in that . if it was the law and the testimony , as i conceive it was , had not all the people that were to stone the seducing prophet , their way of judging the false prophet ? if they must not follow him after other gods , and if they must be actors in stoning him . and was not this fallible as well as ours under the new testament ? and therefore , because we are not infallible judging in the heart-heretick ; we must not draw the sword against him ; and i say , nor can we draw the sword of the spirit against any such ; for in the using of the sword of the spirit , in teaching , refuting , or arguing against hereticks ; we are not infallible . if this way of peoples judging , and not listening to the suggestions of a false prophet was infallible , how erred they , and slew the true prophets , and stoned them that were sent , matth. . . as well as we may ? and why may not we , notwithstanding of our fallibility and actuall erring , judge and drive away by the sword , devourers of the flock , as well as they ? . if god have left no means under the new testament , but exhorting , to suppresse the seducer , what shall be said of iohn epist . . who forbids to receive a seducer in our house , or bid him god speed . sure this is some externall forcing of the conscience , if we credit libertines ; for rather then some seducer lye in the fields in america in winter , he will say he abhors familianisme , though he hate all the sound in the faith . now is not this a greater externall power , armed against a seducer , then if the holy ghost had said , if a murtherer , a parricide , a sorcerer , a drunkard , come to your house , let him not lye in the fields , lodge him , but give him course cheare , and no bed to lye on , no fire to warme him ? yet so much is not said in expresse words , for the forcing of the conscience in the new testament . againe , for the second member , if to teach what we judge in our conscience to be truth , though most erroneous , be no sinne , but innocency , yea if ( as minus celsus said ) it be a token of a good conscience , and innocent feare of god , as libertines say , we are to judge no mans heart , and that in a matter of salvation , no man will be so devill-like as to go to hell , and leade millions of soules with him , the way being against his conscience . for ier. taylor saith , it is all one here , whether it be a reall truth the seducer holdeth and teacheth , or if he onely apprehend it to be a truth , though it be an untruth ; and he said well according to his way . now , if to teach ( i say ) what we conceive to be truth , though most false , be no sinne , but innocency , then the magistrate ought not onely not to punish it , but reward it ; and to allow stipends and maintenance to all seducers , to teach what errors they judge saving truths . and grant me these three , which cannot be denied but by grosse anabaptists , . rom. . that the magistrate is to reward well doing . . that the workeman is worthy of his wages , tim. . , . matth. . . and that a preaching ministry is necessary under the new testament , cor , . , , . , . rom. . , , . then must it follow of necessity , that the christian magistrate should maintaine and pay stipends to all preachers , whether sound , and orthodox , or heterodox , and seducing ; for if he withdraw maintenance , as a magistrate , or any other way , because he judgeth the preacher to be unsound , and a seducer , he taketh upon himselfe to punish a man for his conscience , when as he hath no infallibility ; and he doth so punish and force the conscience of the innocent pastor and people both . for he is obliged to judge , that both the sound pastor and the seducer follow their conscience ; and whatever the doctrine of either be , orthodox or heterodox , he is to judge that both followeth his innocent conscience , and in so doing , both feareth god , and doth well ; and by his office he is for the praise and reward of well doers : and suppose he judge in his conscience , that the doctrine of the seducer is error and heresie , yet is he to judge it heresie with a reserve , so as it may be to him the next moneth sound doctrine ; and therefore not to judge otherwayes of the seducer , than that he followeth the dictates of his conscience . and so as yet he doth not take on him infallibility to judge , that the seducer teacheth against the light of his conscience , and therefore is not to punish him , but reward him , and pay wages to him , as to a well doer : yea , and whatever ministers teach , since neither they are infallible in teaching the very fundamentals , nor the people that heare infallible in judging , and neither are to beleeve with the perswasion of faith ; and all are to be heard as instructors . for suppose you believe that christ is god consubstantiall with the father , yet are you to heare arrius preach , and to admit a contrary light . if arrius can make the contrary appeare to your minde , and arrius preacheth according to the light of his mind , and there is no reason why you should not be instructed by the seducer ( for you are to try his doctrine ) as well as by the sound teacher , for you have no infallible knowledge who is the seducer , or who is the sound teacher , by the principles of libertines . the third cannot be said , to wit , that it is indifferent to drive away people from the true god ; for it must either be good and praise worthy , or evill , and so punishable , against which we have sufficiently argued . argument what the magistrate is foreprophecied to be under the new testament , that he must discharge with all the power god hath given him , and that perpetually , and not by the tie of a judicial and temporary law , which binds for a time only . but the magistrate is fore-prophefied isai . . . and . . rev. . . to be a nurse-father to the church under the new testament , to keep and guard both tables of the law , and to see that pastors doe their dutie , to minister to the church by his royal power , yea when the fountain shall be opened in davids house , that is under the new testament , he shall thrust through the false prophet that speaketh lies in the name of the lord , zach. . , , , , , . kings as kings must confer some royall service to the church , over which they are nurse-fathers . but all the power that kings have , is essentially co-active , and in order to rewarding or punishing , rom. . , . therefore they must confer coactive service . piscator saith well , that the prince is called the keeper of both tables of the law by our divines , therefore he is to vindicate gods glory in both . he that hath the keeping of two pits , one more horrible and dark , another more mild and heartsome for two malefactors , a theef , and an adulterer , he must not cast the theef in such a dark dungeon as the adulterer : so if the magistrate keep both tables , he must not punish according to his own will , but according to the rule and prescript of god. nor saith the author of the bloody tenet any thing , when he tels us that the magistrate owes to the true religion ; . approbation and reverend esteem . . personall submission to the spirituall government , mat. . cor. . . protection to the subjects whether they be apart or met together . to a false religion he oweth permission , not approbation mat. . . . protection from violence to their persons and estates . answ . all this is very nothing , . approbation and submission to truth is no royall power . isaiah giveth a paternall and fatherly power to the king in church matters , when he saith , he shall be a nurse-father . now all he gives in these two former points , to wit , approbation of , and submission to truth , is no more then any tradesman or son owes to the church : so isaiah makes the king a father ; this author makes him a son subject to the church , which subjection i deny not in another consideration , but that as a nurse-father he should approve the truth , and submit thereunto , as all the members of the church , makes him both a father and a son ; a commander , and a humble submissive obeyer in the same consid●ration , which is most contradictorious and uncongruous , for he must speak of him as a ruler , or else he saith nothing . the third thing which is , protection to the true church is nothing to the purpose ; for that he owes to them as subjects , not as they are serving god in the duties of the first table , for the king by this man can neither command them nor forbid them , by his magisteriall or coactive power to serve god , or not to serve him , in the duties of the first table , and by the true church that the king owes protection to , the author meaneth not the church that is in it self sound and true , but the church that seemeth and appeareth so to the conscience of the magistrate though most erronious . now this is the church of seekers and anabaptists , but suppose the magistrate or commander in war be a familist , a grosse anabaptist ; the author will not say , that he ought to protect the church assembled to worship god , and to excommunicate and deliver to satan such as subvert the faith of many , and say the resurrection is already past , or that he ought to protect an assembly of divines that are for presbyteriall government , and the truth that calvin and our reformers delivered : these are to him antichristian synagogues ; or if he owe them protection , he ought to offer violence with his sword , to anabaptists , such as rose in germany under john becold of leydon , that out of meer principles of religion , killed all that were not of their way , and to displace , imprison , and confine presbiterians . so yet in a defensive way the magistrate must offer violence to the conscience of men , who for meer religious grounds doe labour to scatter and violently to hinder the meetings of the servants of god : for how many of the sectaries of england who are for liberty of conscience have come into churches in england , and stepped up to the pulpit , and hindered the minister the discharge of his conscience to the flock , and offered violence to the meeting of the true church ? now it is not enough to say the minister was but an antichristian service-bookman , and it was no true church whose service such sectaries interrupted ; but giving and not granting it were so , yet are libertines not to offer violence to the conscience of any church true or false , if they be true to their own principles : but this author being an anabaptist and a seeker will say neither warres nor such violence are lawfull , but if so , the magistrate then cannot with the sword protect the true church against the violence of men , who upon meer conscience disturbe their assemblies . . to libertines all churches professing true religion ( as all churches on earth , indians , and mahometanians not excepted , do ) must be true churches , for they are not to judge , but that they follow their conscience , and so the magistrate ow● protection to them , though their conscience be most erroneous , & even for such as they conceive to be true churches , they are not infallibly perswaded they are such , and so the magistrate gives no protection to them as true churches , but only as subjects , which the author tells the magistrate he owes to false churches , & so the king by this is a nurse-father , by his office and by the places isai . . . and . . to bring his glory of protection to the where of rome if they be his subjects as well as to the new jerusalem : but sure the king by these places ows father-nursing and magistratical protection to the true church not to the false , because isai . . . the place is clearly of such a church as the lord can no more forget , then a woman cannot have compassion on the fruit of her wombe , v. , . . such a church as is graven on the palmes of gods hands , v. . . whose ●●sters and destroyers shall be removed , v. . and destroyed , vers . . . which shall be inlarged , by the incomming of the gentiles , whose place shall be too narrow for multitude of sons and daughters begotten by the power of the gospel , though she was a captive removing too and fro , v. , , . . a church that shall lift up a standard to the gentiles , and nations to take in their sons and daughters to fight under christs colours , as being baptized to the same faith , vers . . a church whose spirituall government kings and queens shall obey , licking the dust before them , v. . . a people that wait for the lord , and so shall not be ashamed , v. . now to say that a false church shall have all these glorious priviledges needeth no refutation , and they must be stupid who teach that kings are made nurse-fathers by this text to antichrists kingdom , as if the lord had the beast and his followers written on the palmes of his hands , or that kings being made nurse-fathers to the true church , owe nothing to those that wait on the lord , but the common protection of subjects which they owe to limbes of antichrist , jewes , mahometans , indians , who worship the devil , if these be their subjects is a very pleasant dream and uncredible ; for the place isai . . cryes to him that runs and will read , that kings shall minister something to the true church , which they doe in no sort to the false church , and it is most evident to the judicious reader , that the sucking of the breasts of kings , v. . . and the kissing of the son , psal . . must be more then common protection to subjects that are open enemies to christ and wasters of zion ; yea it must be some protection to the church as the church , and to the laws and ordinances of god , in rewarding the well-doers , and conserving the ordinances , and the correcting of wolves , impostors , lying prophets ; for if we come to master williams his way , that the king owes protection from violence to the persons and estates of false worshippers , to those that serve devils , and because they are subjects , then those texts say no more then be glad indians , popish idolaters , mahometans , for i will make kings your nurse-fathers , and queens your nurse-mothers , and kings●shall minister unto you , and you shall suck the hreasts of kings , and kings shall bring their glory and riches to you . nor need we prove that the place isai . . speaks of the true church , read it and it s proved , v. . arise , shine , for thy light is come , and the glory of the lord is risen upon thee , &c. nor is the matter helped to say , it is a great favour , that the power of the kings who lent their ●orne to the beast , is now lent to the lambe and his followers for their comfort , for then what power bring the kings to the new jerusalem , but royal power ? and what royal power to protect the true church in their persons and estates as they doe the false ? is this the breasts of the milk of kings , and their royall power as nurse-fathers ? and that power which they bring into the new ierusalem ? when it is the same very power they brought into babel , and the same horn they lent to the beast . . the kings lent no royal and paternall power to the true church but what they lent to babel as yet , nor doe they yeeld any royall power to hold up christs throne and maintain his ordinances , or convey the sincere milk of the word , by their politick coactive power to the church , if our adversaries doctrine be received . againe , permission to the false church is proved by matth. . . let the tares grow ●ill harvest . gulielmus parisiensis part . . hact . de legibus p. . vbi ergo impii in consumptionem populi dei , vel diminutionem crescunt , ibi nullatenus ●rescere sinendi sunt , sed eradicandi ; quod si quis dixorit , quia ipsi sunt zizania , possunt esse ●riticum , quia converti possunt ad viam veritatis — sed non hoc● certum , quod autem per ▪ ipses , illi qui triticum sunt , zizania siant , hoc evidenter certum est ▪ hoc enim est ac si diceretur , ut paucis lupis in media gregis existenti●●● , gr●g●mque incessanter lacer antibus , ac devorantibus , parca●●● , quia forte deus , faciet illos , oves & agnos , — & dimitte●das p●●eas faces ardentos in medio silv a lignorum germinantium , ips●●que silv●● inc●ssanter ardentes , quia deus forsitan faciet illas arbores fructiferas , — pauc●s leprosos dimittendos esse in medio sani populi assidue contagio ipsum corrumpentes & inficientes , quia forsitan deus salvabit illos . calvin advers . servetum numb . . si praecise nobiscum agant , ex verborum formula , non tantum prohibeantur magistratus ab usu gladii , sed omnem disciplinam è medio tolli oportet . joan. à ch●kier in paraenesi ad haereticos , c. . parabolam illam non loqui de judicibus . beza de haeret . puniendis , p. . nemo patrum haeretic●s ne quidem judicandos ante extremum diem asserit . . zizaniorum appellatione intelligi arbitror non sols haereticos , sed omnes qui vitae exemplo ecclesiam offendunt , chrysost . hom . . in mat. sinite crescere , dissipate haereticorum conciliabula , ora obstruite , audacian loquendi concidite , sed ne interficite , item ibid. dogmata quidem impia arguite & anathematizate , sed hominibus ipsis parcite . how far is mr. williams bloody tenet against all the power of the ministery , or so much as rebuking hereticks , for he saith c. . p. . thirdly i have proved that the ministers or messengers of the lord jesus ought to let ( the tares or hereticks ) alone , and to let them live in the world , and neither seek by prayer nor prophecie , to pluck them up before the harvest . enthymius and theophylact follow chrysostome , puniendos , non necandes . iacobus acontius stratage . satan l. . p. . constat triticum esse pios , zizania impios — si sinendi sunt crescere , tam impii , quam pii — tolleretur omnis magistratus authoritas omnisque disciplina , & page . inter pontificios jacobus simanca parisiensis episcop ▪ in enchyridio violatae religionis ti . . p. . nu . . parabolam loqui de punitione impiorum , quando est periculum ne simul eradicetur triticum , zizania sunt omnes filii nequam , nullus igitur facinorosus puniendus , absurdum , non loquitur parabola de judicibus . phillippus gamachaeus in . q. . de infidel . q. . sinite crescere , si verum ac reale non imaginarium damnum immineat , debet tum ecclesia , debent tum christiani principes à coactione abstinere . sic suarez tom . de vir theo . dis . . se . . nu . . ( ne forte eradicetis ) sie august . l. . contra parmen ▪ cap. . c. . tannerus tom . . dis . . de fid . q. . du . . n. . ( ne forte ●radicetis ) ratio haec est communis & adequata omnis justae permissionis malorum quando etiam deus eb eandem causam mala permittit , azorius inst . par . . l . c. . per zizania haeretici intelliguntur secundum chrysostimum , augustinum , hieronimum , enthymium , theop●ylactum , sed respondet ex parabolis non semper sumi efficax argumentum , & generaliter per verba , accipi hic pravos mores & falsa dogmata . nor is it altogether to be condemned that gregorius . innocen . . paulus . clemens . command the talmudicall and cabalisticall books containing blasphemies against god to be burnt in the fire , august . ep. . ad vincen. retracteth ingeniously his opinion , that hereticks ought not to be punished , mea primitus sententia , erat , neminem ad unitatem fidei cogendum . theodore srackius in hist . anabap. c. . in notis p. . to the compelling of men to religion against their will , that which some object out of lactantius , that lactantius doth argue against such as being destitute of the word of god and sound reason , would compell by the sword only men ▪ to receive true religion . it is a token the man is scant and ebbe of proofes in scriptures , when he can prove liberty of conscience by no scripture , but one wing and tith of a parable , never expounded by christ , who yet expoundeth all the rest of the parts of the parables , and yet ( as i have said before ) the tares are not expounded by christ to bee heretickes , but ver . . the tares are the children of the wicked one , and ver . . all things that offend and doe iniquity . mr. goodwin denies that heretickes are ill doers , mr. williams saith , they do iniquity but if he would expound and apply all the tithes and joynts of the parable , then mr. williams must tell us what the sleeping of men , v. . and what the springing up of the blade is , and the bringing forth of the fruit is , v. . and how men quarrell with god , because of the prosperity of hereticks , when as scripture extends the prosperitie that stumbles men , to the most wicked , who are fat and rich , psal . . , , , . ier. . . job . , , . and what the bundles are , vers . ▪ since mr williams ( as all libertines and anabaptists are ) is bold with the word to expound tares otherwise then the word of god and our saviour christ doth , who of purpose expoundeth the ●●res to be workers of iniquity , and ill doers , now hereticks to master williams and libertines are no ill doers , but innocent men , men that fear god , such as suffer persecution for conscience , the children of light , of the promise , of the free woman , persecuted by the children of this world , and the sons of the bondwoman , as all their books say ; how doth christ make these hereticks that are named tares , such as grow and flourish till harvest , and then these innocent men that feared god are judged by god offenders in christs kingdome , workers of iniquity , cast into a furnace of fire , where there shall bee wailing and g●ashing of teeth ? to conclude why doth mr williams say the magistrate oweth protection , to the true church apart and met together , and saith not that he owes protection to the false church , the same way apart and met together ? he must secretly insinuate that the magistrate oweth some singular royall protection to the assemblies of anabaptists and seekers and the true church , which he oweth not to the church of wicked men met and assembled for worship . yet when the wicked are assembled in the valley of the sons of hinnon to burn their sons to devils , when they are met in the high places to offer and sacrifice , to the sun and the queen of heaven , and to adore the works of mens hands , even then are these men , subjects under a lawfull prince , and this prince must either in such abominable and bloodie worship , defend their persons and estates from violence , or then . master willams saith amisse . the prince must by his office serve the devil , and countenance , and defend a most wicked and bloodie service , such as son-slaughter and idolatry , and that against his conscience though he judge them a false church . . the prince , if hee withdraw his royall defence , is wanting in his office , and yet it is his conscience to neglect dutie to such . . and must force the consciences of people , in tempting them to de●ist from what they in conscience conceive to be the highest worship and expression of love , fear and reverence to god , in that he refuseth to protect them in man-slaughter , and such service to god , which they dare not venture on without his protection , least men rise up against them and destroy them . mr. williams addeth ib. p. to professe the magistrate must force the church to doe her 〈◊〉 , and yet the magistrate must 〈◊〉 judge what that dutie is , must be to play in spirituall things . answ . that the magistrate should compell godly men to keep peace , and a david ( suppose he were a subject ) not to kill , not to commit adultery under the pain of civill punishment , i suppose is not heresie , and yet i see not how the magistrate is not to judge according to the word of god , what is wilfull murder , and so deserveth death , by the law of god , what is accidentall killing and deserveth no death , but a refuge and maneprize . but the magistrate ( say liberti●es ) should not judge what is heresie , what sound doctrine , why ? because that is to be judged according to the word of god by pastors . but , that is , 〈◊〉 causa pro causa , for the king is to judge what is murther , what not , and all matters belonging to a civill judge , what is morally good and evill , and what is punishable by the sword , what not , by reading on the book of the law when he sitteth on the throne , deut. , , . but this he judgeth in order to civill punishment , and not in order to the gaining of souls , and in so far as concerns his practice , and the same way is he to judge what is heresie , what not , if this be not said , then should we play indeed in spirituall matters . q. but is not the christian ruler then as a ruler , to judge whether arrius ought to be banished , and imprisoned , who denieth the son of god to be consubstantiall with the father ? and so all rulers are to judge of heresies and gospell ▪ truths even indian and puga● magistrates , who are essentially magistrates , as well as christian rulers , for quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ans . there is a difference betwixt a ruler , and such a ruler , a christian ruler , or a heathen ruler , a ruler a● a ruler , should judge of all civill businesses , and of truths and falshood in religion , for all nations have some god , and some religion ; but a ruler as a christian ruler onely , not as a ruler ( as the notion of : 〈◊〉 a ruler doth 〈…〉 and the christian ruler ) ought 〈…〉 judge what is gospel truth , or gospel untruth , for then all 〈…〉 pagan , or what not should judge the gospel truthe though they be not obliged to believe in christ , or to know the gospel , which they never heard , rom. . , , . now this is absurd . but onely rulers as christian rulers should judge of gospel-truths ; magistrates should judge , but all magistrates as magistrates , should not judge of all businesses , and of all matters belonging to all countries ; for then an indian magistrate should judge of all the matters of france , england , scotland , which cannot be said , so a magistrate as a magistrate should judge of religion , but not all magistrates of all religions , for heathen magistrates cannot judge , nor ought not to judge whether arrianisme be heresie or not , and whether it be punishable by the sword or not , whether christ mediator hath one will , as the monothelites said , or two as the catholike protestants said , because the heathen magistrate ( as we suppose ) never heard of christ . so we say a judge of france cannot judge , as a judge , of transporting of wooll out of england , or of wax out of scotland : nor can an english judge as a judge , judge of transporting of wines out of france , or of crying down , or up the worth of monies within scotland , only the judges of france can , and ought to judge of the former , and that not as judges simply , but as ●●th judges of france , and only the judges of scotland as they are such , can judge of crying up or down monies in scotland : and upon the same ground , judges as judges are not , nor ought they as judges to determine what gospel truths are praise-worthy , in order to civill rewards , and what gospel heresies are punishable , for of these they are to determine judicially as such judges , as christian judges who are hearers of the gospel . though christianitie adde nothing to the essence of a judge as a judge , yet christianity addeth something to the being and authoritative power of such a judge , a christian , a scottish , an english judge , this remaineth then true of a judge . what a judge doth as a judge , that all judges may do , for quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but what such a judge doth as such a judge , as christian , as scottish , as english , that all judges may not , nor cannot doe : so a christian husband , father , master , as christian , is to give christian counsels and instructions to his wife , children , servant , but it followes not that all husbands , all fathers , all masters , though heathenish and pagan , though they never head of christ , are to give christian counsells and 〈…〉 to the principles of the gospel , to their wives , sons , servants ; so the christian prince , not as a prince simply , but as a christian prince is to confer his royall authority , in a politick and co-active way to promote the mediatory kingdome of christ , which all judges on earth are not to doe , for these judges only psal . . are to kisse the son , who hear the decree published , thou art my son , psal . . . for a law never pro●●●gated , neither by heart ingraving , neither by minister all publication can oblige no man , as is cleer rom. ● . . rom. , . and . . joh. ● . . matth. . ● , . yet shall it not follow that the christian judge is a sub-mediator under christ , and subordinate as a vice-gerent to the m●diator , for the christian magistrate does not promote christs kingdome , as the minister of christ , or as representing christs person , for the christian magistrate is the minister of god , and the vice-gerent of god ; now god as the soveraign lord hath a co-active power overall , the magistrate , heathen , or christian , is his vicegerent , and the christian ruler may compell with the sword all to serve the son , yet the son as mediator whose kingdome is not of this world , sends not men out to promote his kingdome with the sword , joh. , . mr. williams civill peace is pax civitatis , the peace of the citie , jer. . . pray for the peace of the citie , which peace of the citie or citizens so compacted in a civill way of union , may be intire , unbroken , safe , &c. notwithstanding so many thousands of gods people , the jewes , ●●re there in bondage , and would neither be constrained to the worship of the city of babell , nor restrained from so much of the worship of the true god , as they 〈◊〉 practise , as is plain in shadrach , mosha●● , and abedaego , daniel . in daniel c. . who would rather suffer , then de●ist from true worship , or practice fals● : so the 〈…〉 papists keep the peace of their townes and cities safe and distinct , where there is no spirituall and heavenly peace . answ . all this is to prove that there may be no breach of citie peace , or civill peace , where there are 〈◊〉 of sundry religions . but . the mans should remember , there is a christian externall peace , which 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 providence can not be kept , where there be divers religions , and sundry waies of worshipping christ , & we beleeve our saviour intendeth so much , mat. . . thinke not that i am come to send peace 〈◊〉 earth , i came not to send peace , but the sword . v. . for. i am come to set a man at variance against his father , and the daughter against h●r mother . luke . . and ye shall be be●r dyed ●oth by your parents , brethren , kinsfolks , and friends , and some of you they shall cause to be put to death . and what is the quarrell , but divers religions and waies of worship about christ ? so paul exhorteth to christian peace , ephes . . . indeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , not because of contrary religions , and many sectaries called the holy partie that are to bee tolerated in meeknesse and mutuall forbearance : but v. . because there is but one lord , one faith , one baptisme , and but one religion whether presbyteriall or independent , and since the apostles and christ in the new-testament so often recommend peace , and never once insinuate forbearance in diversitie of religion , and all the apostles and apostolike church had but one religion , toleration of many religions , not being a part of the new testament liberty where with christ hath made us free , as is the libertie from ceremonies , and righteousness by the law , that the foolish galathians affected , gal. . , , we conclude there is a law against toleration of many religions , not any repealing of that law in the new testament , but divers religions expressely forbidden as contrary to peace , and foretold to fall out as sad judgements , mat. . . mat. , , luke . . , , , . tim. . , , , . tim. . , , . . joh. . affirmanti incumbit probatio , our adversaries are obliged to give us precept , promise , or godly practice , why a morall sin forbidden and severely punished in the old testament , should yet remaine a moral sin in the new testament , and yet not be punishable by men or churches , yea solomous toleration of the idolatrous worship , kings . provoked the lord to anger , yet his wives consciences should not have been compelled to leave off the worshipping of the gods of the moabites , ammonites , by this way , rom. . . let us follow after the thing that makes for peace ( saith paul ) but toleration of many religions is contrary to peace , if one of them be the only true way , the rest are all false waies , the mixture of the two contrary seeds , the seed of the serpent , and the seed of the woman must be against peace ; and paul exhorting to union and christian peace , thinks many religions , many sects and opinions tolerated , cor. . . to be just contrary to peace . now i beseech you brethren by the name of our lord jesus christ , that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you , but that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and in the same judgement . hence he seriously dehorts from schismes and sects , whereas upon supposition of divers sects , all being godly , we should have some charitable precepts commanding men of divers religions to beare with one another ; but where is that written ? and if they dwell together peaceably , why but they may marry together , achab then in marrying the king of the zidonians daughter , failed not , and he married her wicked religion . clotildis the daughter of clodoveus married almaricus the arrian , king of the wisigots , the maid being educated in the sound faith , but procopius , l. . bell. gothorum said , there was never peace between them . as for mr. williams chaldean , and heathenish or american peace , we leave it to himself ; the peace the people of god was to pray for , jer. . was onely outward prosperity , freedome from the sword of egypt , and from other nations , that the captive church might also partake of that peace . but i hope jeremiah bad not the people of god in judea , under the babylonish captivity , follow an heathenish peace , with toleration of divers religions , or yet a religious peace , or a church peace , that standeth well with many religions , yea they are to denounce wrath against the chaldee religion , jer. . . and would he have christians all keeping such an heathenish unity and peace , as babylonians and americans have , and in the mean time tolerate all religions , christians who have one god , and one faith , and one hope are to follow more then a civill and heathenish peace . it is therefore in vaine for libertines to tell us , that abraham lived long amongst the canaanites , who were contrary to him in religion , gen. . and isaac with them , gen. . and jacob twenty years with laban an idolater , gen. . israel in egypt years , in babylon . israel under the romans with herodians , pharisees . what of all these ? the godly rulers and church , sometimes pilgrims , sometimes servants , sometimes captives , never having the sword nor power of it as magistrates to take order with false teachers , did peaceably dwell with them , ergo , godly magistrates armed with the sword , must now suffer the sheep of christ , to be worried and preyed upon by wolves ? this consequence is nothing , this is à facto adjus , and to argue from the controverted practice of heathen . chap. xxvi . whether punishing of seducing teachers be persecution for conscience . libertines lay downe for a ground , that to punish any for their conscience must be persecution ; anninians call punishing of hereticks persecution : it is proper to carnall men to persecute the children of the promise . he that is sick onely of an errour of the minde , breaks not the law of god : if the magistrate punish him for that , he is a persecuter . so also the anabaptists in bullingers time . mr. williams going after these guides saith , i acknowledge that to molest any person , jew or gentile , for either professing doctrine , or practising worship meerly religious , or spirituall , is to presecute him , and such a person ( what ever his doctrine be , true or false ) suffereth for his conscience ; and beside , a man may be persecuted , because he holdeth or practiseth what he beleeves in conscience to be truth , as daniel , and because he dare not yeeld obedience , to doctrines and worships invented by men , and so the authour of storming of the anti. and of the ancient bounds . answ . the very like the donatists objected ; so cresconius grammaticeus , quisquis christianum persequitur , christi inimicus est , whoever persecutes a christian is an enemy of christ , augus . l. . contra a cresconium c. . answereth , verum dicis , ●● non in illo persequitur , quod christi est inimicum , neque enim dominus in servo , pater in filio , maritus in conjuge cum sine utrique christiani , non debent persequi vitia cbristianae contraria veritati , an vero si non persequuntur , non rei negligentiae merito teneluntur ? it is true , saith he , he is an enemy to christ , who persecuteth a christian , if he doe not persecute in a christian , that , which is enmity to christ , yet are not the master , father , husband , not to persecute in servant , son , and wife ( if they be christians ) sinnes contrary to christian truth , and if they persecute not these sinnes , are they not justly guilty of the negligence of their brethrens soules ? so also augustine distinguisheth a two fold persecution , de unit . eccl. c. & psal . . had these men given us one letter of scripture for their bastard definition of persecution , we should not stumble to heare tongue-persecuters and raylers , and hand-persecuters say so ; but we goe from them to our saviours words , matth. . . blessed are ye , when men shall revile you , and persecute you , and say all manner of evill against you ( not for an erroneous and bloody conscience , as libertines define it ) but falsely for my sake . persecution that the scripture condemnes , is persecution , for righteousnesse ●●d truth , such as the true prophets suffered for the truth , matth. . . for christs names sake , luke . . matth. . . for the word of god , and for the testimony of jesus , rev. . . rev. . . for the testimony of the trutb , rev . . for righteousnesse , matth. . . for the gospel , mark. . . acts . . acts . . gal. . . gal. . . tim. . . mark. . . cor. . . . thess . . . tim . matth. . joh. . . joh. . . rom. . . acts . . cor . gal. . . thess . . . acts . . acts . . c. . . phil. . . and why was jeremiah persecuted ? the three children , daniel , christ , paul , peter , john , james , the martyrs , heb. . not for familisme , antinomianisine , socinianisme , anabaptisme , &c. shew us a word of old or new testament warranting you to call it persecution , to molest any for worship or practice , though most false . mr. williams saith , to malest any for their conscience is persecution , then must jeremiah be a persecuter , for he molested those with rebukes and threatnings , who out of meer conscience , killed their sons and daughters to malech . christ molested pharisees and sadduces , who out of meer conscience defended the traditions of men , false interpretations of the law , denied the resurrection ; yea the lord commanded the judges in his law , not onely to molest , but to stone to death without mercy , those who professed doctrine out of meer conscience , and practice worship upon meerly religious grounds , which tended to drive away people from the true god , and such as blasphemed god , deut. . exo. , . rom. . . . . lev. . , . deut. . . levit. . . but god never commanded in any law persecution , but hated it , and no more commanded it , then his holy laws can be unjust . . asser . there is a persecution with the tongue by words like coals of juniper , psal . . , . and like the arrows of the mighty , like a sharp razour , psal . . . job . . these ten times ye have reproached me , and are not ashamed , v. . why doe ye persecute me as god ? jobs friends never put hand on him , but by arguing him to be an hypocrite , from the mistaken doctrine of providence , as is clere , chap. , , , , , &c. yet they persecuted him , job . . they that mocked jeremiah and in arguing opposed his doctrine , and said , jer. . . where is the word of the lord , persecuted him , v. . let them be confounded that persecute me , jer. . . then said , they , come let us devise devices against jeremiah , for the law shall not perish from the priest , nor counsell from the wise , nor the word of the lord from the prophet : and they had much to say from the word , that the law was with the priests , and the word of the lord with their prophets , as well as with jeremiah , yet they resolve to persecute jeremiah , come and let us smite him with the tongue , and let us not give heed to any of his words . and the scripture tells us of the scourge of the tongue , job . . and the place cited by libertines , gal. . , . where it is said that i●hmael the son of the handmaid , persecuted isaac the son of the promise , it was not by offering any bodily violence to isaac , as we teach the christian magistrate , is to use the sword against seducers ; but as pareus , meyer , calvin , piscator , beza , luther , perkins , and all interpreters do well expound it , ishmael but mocked isaac , and said , the promises made to him were but a mock , and he would have , forsooth , the dignity of the birth-right . calvin saith , the mocking and blaspheming of christ on the crosse , he trusted in god , let him deliver him , psal . . matth. . , . was the most cruell persecution that ever befell him , heb. . . and others had triall of cruell mocking and scorning . optatus complained that the bloud of bishops was shed not by the sword , but by the tongue ; then must elias persecute baals priests , for he mocked them : and what warrant have libertines to say , that all baals priests followed that worship that they were brought up in , against their conscience , for the conscience of hereticks being burnt with an hot iron , tim. . will make them think the killing of the lords apostles is good service to god , and all the sarcasticke mockings and jearings of m. williams goodwin , the authors i cite , and of other libertines against presbyterians , the followers of calvin , the opposers of wilde and atheisticall liberty of conscience ( since they are not in fallible in maintaining toleration of all wayes , turcisme , judaisme , familisme , socinianisme , &c. ) must be persecution of all in the contrary opinion for conscience , and so while they write against persecution , they persecute all contrary arguing and refuting of such , as we conceive doe erre : and all rebuking of them , all syllogisticall collections and inferences , of the absurdities and blasphemies of their doctrine , must be smiting with the tongue and persecution . for that spoken against jeremiah , the law shall not perish from the priest , nor the word of the lord from the prophet ; having so much colour of scripture , as that also , he saved others ; ergo , if he ●e the saviour , he must save himselfe , being of the dye and hew of truth , so near of bloud to it in outward face , and to the consciences of many ; were notwithstanding grievous persecuting of jeremiah and jesus christ , then must m. williams say true , we must not by prayer or prophesie seeke to pluck up the tares till harvest . so all writing , preaching , and refuting of gainsayers , of that which we conceive to be truth , except we be infallible , and prophetically ascertai●ed we are right , and these we refute , wrong , must be persecution and smiting with the tongue . . nor doe libertines charge us more with persecution , then anabaptists did bullinger and our reformers , and the donatists did augustine , and the catholicks upon whom augustine retorted the challenge , for the true church ( saith he ) casts out agar the handmaid , is this persecution ? it is to be observed in this argument . . that none objected this but sectaries ▪ and such as were conscious to themselves of foule tenets , as anabaptists in germany , donatists in africa , papists in q●een elizabeths time ; calvin , beza , protestants never objected this , against the papists , or spanish inquisitors , the old non-conformists never pleaded against the most tyrannicall prelates for liberty of conscience , finde this in all their books . so cartwright , yea amesius though by assed with independency , speaketh against lawlesse liberty . . libertines , anabaptists , donatists , when they get the sword in their hand , of all men most cruelly presse the consciences of others , that are not in every punctilio in their minde . see the authours in the margine to prove this , none such bloudy persecuters for conscience as they . . all these arguments do strongly militate against jezabel and all hereticks , and seducing teachers , for christ hath ordained a spirituall coactive power in the church against wolves and such as say , they are jews and lie , and are the synagogue of sathan , rev. . as well as god hath ordained a civill coactive power in the state , and the one coactive power doth as much hinder christs followers to be a willing people , as the other , and presse the conscience . create hypocrisie . oppose the meeknesse of christ and his ministers . savour of persecution . estrange affections . countenance domineering over conscience as the other . nor doe we professe , coercing of sound and faithfull teachers , but onely seducing hereticks . the arminians tell us , a precept is quickly found , when we would persecute the godly for their conscience , and mr. williams cryeth , search all scriptures , records , &c. no persecuters , not the divell himself , professe to persecute the son of god , jesus as jesus , christ as christ , without a marke or covering ; so said they , had we lived in queen maries dayes , we would not have consented to such persecution . answ . this argues a silly engine , for if it hold good against us , search all scriptures , records , &c. no tyrants , no nero having the sword to punish patricides , matricides , sorceries , adulteries , sodomy , professed that they punished just men as just men , innocent men as innocent men ; what then ? shall it follow magistracy and the use of the sword is unlawfull against any , because tyrants oppresse the innocent , not as innocent , but as seditious , traiterous , cruell , bloudy men ? nor would i have mr. williams , so charitable to the devill as to thinke he will not persecute jesus as jesus . i dare not determine much upon the devills heart-reduplications , but if he be not involved in the sin against the holy ghost , and a burning malice against jesus , because he is the son of god , and the saviour of man , i know not much . however mr. williams hath reason upon his grounds to thinke that none should be persecuted for conscience , because we are all scepticks even in point of salvation and fundamentalls , and not infallibly assured of either heaven or hell , and so he is wor●e then a papist . . no men know ( all men since the prophets and apostles sell asleep , being void of infallibility ) assuredly what he believeth unto salvation , if any should deny there is a god or a providence ( as i feare there be too many practicall and judiciall atheists amongst us ) he ought not by prophecying or arguing to be plucked out of that estate , till harvest , but must with the clemency of christ ; here dears brother atheist , you are a godly pious hereticke , and have no god , but your conscience ; and dare not for feare of your conscience believe , that there is a god , and i dare not rebuke you , but be going on in your divinity ; i have as little infallible assurance there is a god , as you have , there is no god , and neither you nor i are to be punished for our consciences . . mr. williams ought for no religion venture his life to burning quicke , for he cannot dye or cast away his life but upon a conjecture , it may be there is a god , and it may be there is no god ; for how dare he breake the sixt command and hazard his life , for a truth that may be a lye ? so neither should any persecute , but in faith , that he is infallibly sure the man is a reall hereticke , neither should he be persecuted , for he is not infallible in the knowledge that he suffereth for , and so cannot suffer in faith , see for more of this , and the foregoing doctrine . cainbartus contra lypsium ; lincaeus , de libertate christiana , althusius in politicis , and celsus gives us good stuffe , it was commanded kings in the old testament to kill their enemies , but in the new testament we are to love our enemies , and doe good to them that hate us ; for edification , not for killing and destruction is church discipline ordained . ans . what this socinian author bringeth for new precepts of christ in the new testament , different from these of the old , is but wicked socinianisme as you may see in the catechisme of raccovias , socinus , osterodius , smalcius , volkelius , and the arminians , episcopius arminius , who make the loving of our enemies commanded by christ , matth. . . luke . . and by paul rom. . . not to be commanded in the old testament , which argueth their ignorance of the scriptures , prov. . . if thine enemy be hungry give him bread , prov. . . rejoyce not when thine enemies fall , exo. . if thou meet thine enemies oxe or asse going astray , thou shall surely bring it backe to him ; yea david by an old testament spirit , when his enemies were sick , psal . . , was cloathed with sack cloth and fasted , and behaved himselfe as one mourning at his mothers grave ; what david and jer●mial , did prophesie against gods enemies is fulfilled in the new testament , and paul and luke say amen to it , rom. . v. , , . acts . , . and we are to beare the like zeal , yea more against false teachers under the messias kingdome , then they did , zach. , , , , , . joh. . rom. . . rev. . , . the end of church-discipline is edification , the taking away the life of a blasphemer is the good of the society , deut. . . that all israel may heare and feare , and doe so no more , but that the christian magistrates end is spiritual , and the edification of souls , we read it not . the author of ancient bonds having forgotten divinity cryes , god waited for the old world yeers , and when this date of patience is out , i would have gathered you , &c. i sent my prophets early , but where doth the lord charge the prophet , that the magistrate did not force and compell the people ? ans . will this man let us hear logick ? the lord waited on the old world yeers ; and sent his prophets early , i dare say , many hundred yeers ; ergo , the blasphemer and the false prophet contrary to deut. . levit. . must be spared yeeres ? so ergo , wee must exercise much long suffering in the old testament while these lawes were in vigour , ( for then it must bee that the prophets jeremiah and isaiah were never charged that magistrates compelled not consciences , ) toward seducing prophets : why , but god using much long-suffering toward the old world , and israel not a world ( i j●dge ) of innocent and godly hereticks , but of men that corrupted their way , despised the prophets , hardned their faces and hearts , were murtherers , oppressors , grinders of the poor , killed their children to devils ; ergo , the magistrate should extend long-suffering for as many yeers as this man will to these ill-doers , no less then to seducing torchers , should not pastors & rulers extend long-suffering to all sorts of sinners as well as to hereticks ? but where ( answers the prophet ) doth the lord lay it to the charge of prophet or magistrate , that they did not force or compell the people , to repent , to leave their murthering , their oppressing their grinding of the face of the poor ? we teach not that the prophet ought to compell any , nor that the sword is an ordinance of god to convert oppressars , and murtherers , to turn meek and righteous judges , co-action by fire and sword in old or new testament can convert none to christ , the word and the spirit must ever doe the turn : by accident god can change the nature of the rod and fanctifie it to manasses , for to bring him to humiliation and repentance . but were these that christ would have gathered matth. . only false prophets , to whom he extended patience many hundred yeers , even from moses till his owne coming in the flesh ? ergo , we should extend to bloodie murtherers of the lords prophets , the like patience , and not kill them , for then they are past hope of being gained ? now the text means no such thing , but that christ waited long on , and sent his prophets early in the morning , to those that were theeves , isai . . murtherers , adulterers , jer. . that sl●w their children to mole●h ; by this argument the magistrate should not draw his sword against adulterers , murtherers ; and i judge the rulers were called lions and wolves , ezek. . because they extended too much cruel patience to these . but if gods patience be a rule , men must not be cut off , because there is hope of their repentance so long as they live , your own acontius saith by this reason , murtherers and adulterers should not be punished by the magistrate , for there often is more hope of publicans , harlots and murtherers that they may be the elect of god , and gained to repentance , then of self-wise , and judicially blinded pharisees : nor find we any so deserted of god and judicially blinded of god as libertines , read but the book intituled john the baptist , sure a wilderness man void of reason wrote it , the man tells chap. . disclaiming against going to low and wars ; ( which yet anabaptists and this scholler of that sect practise , whether the parliament will or no ) saith , are yee wronged in person , estate , good name , or for christs sake , which is our conscience ? our saviour and his saints have drunke the same cup. hence he citeth to no purpose scriptures but two and fourtie in number , of the persecutions to follow the lords disciples for the gospel , and that it is proper to the world to persecute , and to the saints to be persecuted , and hated for righteousnesse , and that such as are persecuted , and 〈◊〉 ●●sallow all persecuting for matters of religion , as the greatest stumbling block to the propagation of the gospel , must necessarily be the true church and 〈◊〉 of christ , none else having a capacitie ( without gods infinite mercie , and dispensation ) of being ever hewed out and squared as members sutable to such a head : contr●riorum eadem est ratio , since the true church must needs be persecuted , that must needs be a false church which persecutes the true one , for though this false church be persecuted likewise , yet in regard it cannot be both true and false , that persecuted church must needs be the only true one , which doth not persecute others , but that the argument may be compleat and full ( it had much need , for it is weak and unstable as water ) as in the mouth of two witnesses unto this evidence of reason , let me adde a scripture proofe , viz. we brethren ( true christians ) as isaac was , are the children of promise , but as he that was born after the fl●sh , persecuted him that was born after the spirit , 〈◊〉 so it is now gal. . , . yet since it is better , if the will of god be so that we suffer for w●ldoing then for evill doing , pet. howev●r these ishmalites are powerful , prosperous , prevaile against us , and have the world at will for the present , yet let us comfort our-selves that god hath chosen the dispised and poore , rich in faith , &c. we close this chapter with their doom and ours , neverthel●sse what saith the scripture , c●st out the bondwoman , for the son of the bon●woman shall not be heire with the son of the free-woman , so then , we are not children of the bondwoman , but of the free , gal. . , . so of that sort is the heedlesse quaerist to the assembly of divines . if the magistrate as a magistrate have a power from christ to punish such as he is perswaded in his conscience are erroneous and hereticall , or because he differs in religion from the magistrate , then queen mary and her parliament did well in burning the martyrs for differing from her established religion . answ . . the man as an anabaptist citeth , matth. . . . whosoever shall smite thee on the right che●k , turn to him the other . volkelius an arrand socinian cryes down lawes and judges , and all warres under the new testament , and maketh this a new commandement not warranted in the old testament , as if the hating of our enemie , and revenge , were commanded in the old , and forbidden in the new . nay ( s●ith he ) what heavenly ravished and blessed spirit will tell me what these scriptures mean , mat. . . , . as if none were heavenly and blessed spirits that knew the meaning of the scriptures but volkelius , chellius , socinus and other socinians and anabaptis●s . i answer , socinus and volkelius are these blessed spirits that can shew the meaning of these words and tender lettice for your lips . but see your socinian dream , and theirs refuted by poliander and joan. peltius , for christ in the new testament does no where contradict moses law , nor refute moses , but he refuteth the false glosses which scribes and pharisees put on moses law. for . christ never saith , it was said by moses , but i say the contrary . but it was said of old by the unlucky elders and fathers of scribes and pharisees , which these wretched doctors and their sons said , eye for eye , and thou shall not kill , and thou shall not commit adultery . as is cleare : . because loving of our enemy was forbidden by moses , and in the old testament , as in the new , as i proved before , revenge is forbidden , prov. . . deut. . . shedding of bloud is forbidden , gen. . . as well as by our saviour , matth. . . . because christ saith , matth. . . i say unto you , except your righteousnesse exceed the righteousnesse of the scribes and pharisees ( he saith not , except it exceed the righteousnesse of the law of god commanded by moses in the old testament ) yee shall not enter into the kingdome of heaven . and as christ condemneth unjust anger , so is it condemned a● murther , and accursed in the old testament , gen. . chro. . . daniel . . prov. . . gen. . . est . . . prov. . . prov. . . c. . . eccles . . . esa . . . amos . . sam. . . sam. . . prov. . . c. . . c. . . c. . . and forbidden in the sixt commandement , before christ had that sermon , matth. . and the forbidding of rash and sinfull anger , is no new commandement , but more frequently condemned in the old testament , then in the new. and the like may be proved of heartlusting , prov. . . lust not after her beauty in thine heart , gen. . . job . . jer. . . sam. . . job . , . job . . all which places , and many others in the old testament condemne lusting after a woman in the heart , no lesse then christ condemns it . . christ refuteth socinians and anabaptists , matth. . . think not i am come to destroy the law , &c. . for verily i say unto you , till heaven and earth passe one jot , or one title shall in no wise passe from the law , till all he fulfilled . but if christ oppose his new precepts to the law of moses as velkelius saith , he must utterly destroy the law of moses , and substitute a more perfect law in the place thereof . but libertines , as joh. baptist here , would have heresie forbidden in the old testament , and punishing of false prophesying commanded there . but heresie must be innocency , and righteousnesse in the new testament , and to be punished for false teaching in the old was to suffer for ill-doing ; but now in the new ( saith baptist ) to be punished for false prophesying is to suffer for well-doing , and he citeth pet. . . as if it were the will of god , that sectaries suffer for well-doing : that is , for familisme , socinianisme , antmomianisme , popery , idolatry , butchering of children to god , as some anabaptist parents have done , and for preaching doctrine that eateth as a gangrene , tim. for blaspheming and denying the resurrection of the dead , as hymeneus did ; for he that suffereth for all these , out of meer conscience , suffereth for well-doing , as peter saith , if we beleeve joh. baptist . . but how shall mr. baptist prove christ foretelling the apostles should be persecuted for the preaching of the truth of god and the gospel , that these apostles , and the anabaptists that now are , must looke in like manner to be persecuted for the gospel ; that is , for familisme , socinianisme , all the new blasphemies now on foot in england ; are all these blasphemies the gospel ? and whosoever suffer for monstrous heresies , must they suffer as the apostles did ? and must they lay claim to all the comforts that our saviour hath bequeathed in his testament , to his disciples who were to suffer for christs sake , and for righteousnesse , then surely an erronious and a blaspheming conscience must be righteousnesse ; and to suffer for blasphemy and satan , must be to suffer for righteousnesse and for christs sake , for these libertines say the assembly of divines teach blasphemies , popery , murthering of saints for conscience . so baptist , so necessity of toleration , so ancient bounds . . if such as are persecuted , and disclaime totally persecution for conscience , be the onely true church , and none but they , then these papists in england in the reign of queen elizabeth who were onely persecuted ( in your sense of the word persecution ) and wrote , and petitioned against persecution , and totally disclaimed it , are the onely true church . the like i may say of the arrians in the emperours times , against whom , most severe laws and edicts were made , which to m. baptist was direfull persecution , and yet they totally disclaimed persecution for conscience , and pleaded for toleration . so say i of the arminians in holland , who alwayes plead for liberty of prophesying , and of anabaptists , and all the sectaries in germany , when they first arose , of the familists and most rigid anabaptists in new england , and of all the vilest sects , anabaptists , antiscripturists , socinians , familists , &c. in old england . yea , we may suppose all papists , iewes , and the most abominable sects , living where there are strict lawes for the onely one true religion , to hold the opinion of totall disclaiming persecution for conscience ( for sure they are most capable of this opinion ) hence it shall follow that all these wretched hereticks shall be the only true church and body of christ . . this monopolizeth the nature and name of the true church to onely sectaries that professe they are ready to suffer for their conscience , and doe totally disclaime persecution , that is , for liberty of conscience : so this opinion shall be the only essential , not and constituent form of the true church , and shall exclude the sound faith of all fundamentalls , and the doctrine of the law and gospell . the vilest hereticks living , holding this one article of baptists faith , shall be the onely true church ; and this opinion shall unite men and societies formally to christ their head , and yet it is no matter of faith ; except libertines say , none are capable of faith and salvation , but such as hold this opinion . hence it must follow all these named calvinists , all the reformed churches , all the churches and saints in new england , all the ancient brownists , the old non-conformists , who all disclaimed toleration and licence of conscience , must not onely not be the true church , but the malignant church of such as professe that which they cal persecution ; yea and since they detest and abhor liberty of conscience as atheisticall . all these saints must be uncapable of saving faith , and necessarily damned , because being professed persecutors , and tot●●ly disclaiming toleration , they are in the judgement of this baptist , such as have no capacity ( without gods infinit● mercy and dispensation , converting them to such libertinisme ) to be hewne out and squared to such a head as christ , for contrariorum eudem est ratio . . forme an argument , mr. baptist , from your two scriptures . if to persecute for conscience be essentiall to such as are borne of the flesh , and to be persecuted for conscience be essentiall to such as are born after the spirit , then to be thus persecuted , and to disclaim totally persecution for conscience is an essentiall note of the true church . this proposition can never be proved in your sense , for to be persecuted for conscience ; that is , for a well informed conscience which is sound in the faith of articles of saving knowledge is indeed such an essentiall note , and so we yeeld all , but it is nothing for toleration , but much against it , but to be persecuted for conscience , though erroneous and holding judaisme , turcisme , arrianisme , papisme , familisme , &c. to be the true and saving way ( which is the sense of baptist ) is no wise a note of such a● are born after the spirit ; not doth any place of scripture by the thirteenth consequence prove the same ; for isaac was not persecuted by ishmael for his erroneous conscience . the text sayes no such thing , except baptist make isaac an heretick , and a false prophet : if ishmael persecuted isaac for his conscience ( which yet baptist cannot prove from scripture ) sure it was not for the hereticall conscience of isaac ; nor will it help baptist to say in the minde and conception of ishm●●l , isaac was an heretick . answ . how is that proved ? the text sayes no such thing . . we teach no such thing as that men should be punished by the magistrate , not because they are , but because they seem only to ●e heretickes , or because isaacs and saints are hereticks in our mind and conception , but because they are so indeed ; as the magistrate punisheth not justly a murtherer , because he seems in the minde and conception of the magistrate to be a murtherer , but because he is a murtherer , and is proved by faithfull witnesses to be a murtherer ; so is the heretick proved to be a heretick by the magistrate , and so convicted , that he is self-condemned ; for we never make the magistrates thoughts and his conception to be the rule of punishing an heretick , even as we are not to avoid an heretick after admonition , because he is an heretick in our conception onely , for our conception must not be the rule or formall ground of casting out any man from our society , and avoiding of him ; but we avoid him because he is an heretick in himself : nor exhorts peter any man to suffer for well-doing ; that is , for his conscience , or for his erroneous and hereticall conscience , that is but an abusing of the word of god ; for he speaks not of suffering directly for onely religion true or false , though he exclude it not , but saith , pet. . . but let none of you suffer as a murtherer , as a theefe , as an ill-doer ; and in so saying , he means that no man should ( as elimas ) suffer blindnesse , for perverting the faith of sergius paulus , and i beleeve , it will be a peece of labour for libertines to prove that such opposers of the gospel as elimas and hymeneus , who suffered as ill-doers , did yet know in their conscience the gospel to be the onely saving truth and way of god , and that against the warning of an illuminated conscience , elimas perverted the right wayes of god. however to suffer here as a well , doer by baptists way , is to suffer for an hereticall conscience defending and teaching lies in the name of the lord ▪ if so , such a well-doer if blasphemously unsound , is to be thrust through , and stabbed , as an impostor , by the lords mouth , zach. . lastly , baptist is so charitable of all saints that are not for liberty of conscience , as that he makes it their doom to be cast out as ishmael , and to have no share in christ , or in the gospel . but , baptist , if you judge us , and be not infallible , you take the lords throne upon you , and you judge us before our day , which is to you a strong argument against liberty of conscience , c. . pag. . know ye we are selfe-condemned ? and saw you gods secret book , and saw our names dashed out of the book of life , and that we are inrolled with ishmalites ? take the beam out of your own eye . chap. xxvii . whether our darknesse and incapacity to beleeve and professe , together with the darknesse and obscurity of scripture be a sufficient ground for toleration . as mr. john goodwin the lord pardon his perverting of soules ) led the way from arminian principles , who teach with socinians , that to know is not in our power , which he and they borrowed from aristotle , but wickedly understood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and arminians taught that god by an irresistible power , works illumination in the minde . so opinions not being in our power , the magistrate can have no power over men to coerce them from spreading of heresie . hence baptist , the bounder , the stormer , and other libertines , m. goodwin speaks for . that which is not in our power to doe , or not doe , and is wrought in us by supernaturall grace , and by god onely , we are not punishable by the magistrates sword , but to beleeve , to repent , to be sound in the faith , is wrought in us by supernaturall grace , and by god onely . baptist heaps together but eighteen scriptures , produced against pelagians , papists , arminians , and his brethren socinians , and old anabaptists , that no man can come to the son except the father draw him ; the naturall man understands not the things of god , &c. and i am sure he is ignorant of the conclusion ; for we professe the sword is to be drawn against no man , because he repenteth not , or beleeveth not , &c. hence baptist spitting out with other antinomians his venome against us , though no matter ( excepting the sin of it ) if he wronged not christ and his truth . for when a weak christian ( a disciple of servetus , socinus an apostate denying the lord jesus to have come in the flesh , and all the scriptures to be the word of god ) tyred of longer imprisonment and death , shall say , you say well , but how shall i prevaile with my selfe to beleeve what you say ? thus reply these miserable comforters . yeeld obedience to what is taught you , meditate on it often , desire to beleeve it , and god in time will bring you to beleeve it . then poore popery , why art thou evill spoken of ? and this is a lie ; why ? it is the spirit that teacheth us to pray , abba father . this is merit and supererogations ground-stone . answ . . what if a man void of the spirit cannot pray ; ergo , we should not advise him to pray ? is it popery to advise him so to doe ; or to pray when he wants the spirit ? sure peter taught no popery to simon magus , a man as void of the spirit as any socinian or familist , a man in the gall of bitternesse , and in the bond of iniquity , act. . . repent therefore of this thy wickednesse ( i conceive this is yeeld obedience to what is taught you , and meditate on it , and your evill wayes , and change your minde ) and pray god ( though thou hast no spirit of adoption more then a familist , who makes you beleeve hony words , or the very spirit given to his anointed ones , such as they onely ) if perhaps the thoughts of thine heart , may be forgiven thee ; and whom does the lord command , ezek. . that they would make a new heart ? i conceive such as were as unable to doe it , as to make one haire white or blacke , as the bounder saith , and this is our advice , not because we thinke they can do it without the spirit of christ , more than those that move the question , act. . . what shall we doe to be saved ? act. . . act. . . but if unconverted they may be humbled and convinced , that they are in a lost condition . and , i confesse , if antinomians will advise them to beleeve , and pray , though they have not the spirit , and to pray as they can , and beleeve as they can , and without any preparative work of the law , or sense or knowledge of sin , or sicknesse for christ , immediately and forth with , beleeve christ dyed for thee obstinate socinian , and wrote thy name in the booke of life , and beleeve thy election to life , baptist is a miserab●e comforter , and how he censureth this ; its gods absolute will and pleasure you should beleeve , and that you must necessarily beleeve upon perill of damnation● which he saith is our catechisme . i understand not , except he shew us a conditionall commandement to beleeve the gospell , and a conditionall election and reprobation , suspending gods decrees on what we are foreseen to doe , and except he deny the threatnings in the gospel which shall finde out an unbeleever , joh. . . . if the man be a weak christian or a weak beleever , when the advice of yeelding obedience , praying , desiring to beleeve is given him , appearingly he would have weak antinomians and all anointed ones loosed from all precepts , rule of obedience , and have them under no rule but the immediate impulsion of the spirit , which if it be his mind , he should have set it down , and must prove a miserable comforter in so teaching . . but are we in all these scriptures that hold forth our impotencie to beleeve , to thinke a good thought , to doe the works of righteousness , mercie , truth , chastitie , sobrietie , prescribed in the second table unable only to conceive sound opinions of god and eschew hereticall wayes , and false religions ? are we not also unable to abstain from murther , adulterie , &c. without the supernatural grace of god ? yea all these places shall prove that the ministerie of men , pastors and teachers of the word , are as unlawfull means of converting soules as the magistrates sword to beare down heresi●● o ( say they ) preaching is an ordinance of christ , and a spiritual means ordained to convert soules , the sword is nothing but a carnall humane device ! i answer it is an humane device of converting souls to shed the blood of their bodie , but it is to beg the question and not to prove it , to call it a humane device to punish ill doers , and false teachers who pervert the souls of many . . i speak to the argument , the only preaching of the word , it alone without the spirit , can no more make an hair white or black , or draw us to the son , or work repentance in sin●●rs , then the sword of the magistrate can work repentance : what can man doe ( saith the bounder ) is it not god that must give repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth ? so say i , what can preaching of man or angel doe without god , is it not god and god only who can open the heart ? therefore this is no argument against the use of the sword against false teachers , because it hath no strength against soule obstinacie to work repentance , for neither hath preaching ; but the sword hath strength and more strength against the outward man , the tongue , the pen , the profession of seducing preachers to coerce it , and to guard the flock from grievous wolves , ( for these being test●●ined , the flock is in no more danger from the conscience of the heretick , then peaceable men are in danger of the bloodie mans thoughts , hatred , heart-malice , if the magistrate tie his hands from murther and violence by the sword of god which hee beareth , rom. . ) it hath ( i say ) more force in its way , then the preaching of the word hath , in regard hereticks , men of corrupt minds , fear● men , and the sword of the magistrate , more then god ; and the threatnings of the word ; as murtherers and adulterers abstain from disturbing the peace of humane societie , more for fear of the laws of men , then for god. i grant the excessive fear is from the corruption of nature , for oderunt peccare mali formidine poenae , yet this argues that the sword is ordained of god to order the outward man in a peaceable way , both in state and church ; for lay down this ground which libertines do ; that god hath appointed no law nor rule to men of corrupt minds , to those that subvert whole houses , but their own erroneous consciences , grievous wolves may doe in the flock to waste , destroy , and pervert the flock as they please . but they are ( say libertines ) no wolves , but the lambs of christ , the anointed ones , whom presbyterians so call , and the presbiterians are the wolves , who so domineer over the consciences . i answer , this is a manifest perverting of the state of the question , and to leap from the proposition to the assumption ; for we dispute only upon the supposition , that there be wolves and seducers in a christian societie ( but who they be , presbyterian , or others , is another question ) whether or not the christian magistrate should for his part leave them to themselves , and suffer them to preach , print what blasphemies they list , and their erroneous conscience dictates to them for truths . but neither the christian magistrate not being infallible , nay nor any church on earth can judge who is the heretick , who the saint , and therefore should take on him to judge none at all to be hereticks , but should suffer tares and wheat to grow till harvest , for fear he pluck up the wheat in lieu of tares , and persecute saints under colour of justice . hence i argue in the contrary demonstratively , that liberty of conscience is unlawfull , and not of god. whatever way layeth down a principle most false and contrary to the word of god , is not of god , but must be unlawfull , but the pretended liberty of conscience is such , ergo , &c. the proposition needs no probation , that must be false that by strong consequence follows from a false principle . i prove the assumption , the prime and first principle of libertie of conscience now under the new testament is , that hereticks and seducing teachers are therefore unpunishable by the sword , because they are unknowable : the formall and that which constituteth an heretick an heretick , is in the heart , to wit , heart-contumacie , legible and obvious only to him that knows all , say the belgicks , arminians , and therefore they can neither be judged nor punished ; observe by the way , the church of thyatira must be then unjustly rebuked for suffering jezabel to seduce , and this exempteth all false teachers from church-censures , yea from rebukes , for who dares rebuke men for f●●s knowable to the almightie only who knows the heart ? . we are expressely commanded ( say libertines ) to suffer the tares , that is , hereticks to grow till harvest , because we cannot know tares from wheat , and we run the hazard ( saith iohn goodwin ) of fighting against god , and fighting against saints , and god in them ( saith saltmarsh ) when we punish hereticks . . we have not that infallible spirit , and those prophets who cannot erre , and can infallibly tel us who is the heretick , who not . . there is a great variety , and such contrarietie of judging ( say they ) what is heresie , what not , that what is heresie to one , is saving truth to another , who is as worthy to be beleeved as he ; ergo , we are all in the mist , and in a sea of uncertainties in judging who is the heretick , who the saint . . heresie is innocencie ; ergo , there is no such fault reproveable or punishable in the world , say they . but this principle that the seducer is not knowable in the new testament , is most false and contrary to scripture . . he whom the holy ghost bids as try , and not beleeve , till we try , he is knowable , but every teacher true or false , the holy ghost bids us try , thes . . . joh. . . and for this are the bercans commended , because they tryed paul and his doctrine by the scriptures , acts . . ergo , if paul had been an heretick and a false teacher , he might have been found out . . such an one as the lord forewarns us to beware of ▪ and avoid , such an one is knowable . but the lord bids us beware of false prophets and seducers , and bids us avoid them and beleeve them not , matth. . . remore of false prophets , marth . . . if any man say to you , loe here is christ , or loe there , beleeve it not : why if he teach me where christ is , if i heare not him , i refuse to hear christ , matth. . , . ergo the false christ is knowable , tit. . . an hereticke avoid , &c. when solomon saith , make not friendship with an angry man , is not the formality of anger in the heart ? if any should reply to solomon , god onely knows who is the angry man , who is the patient and meek man , therefore we will make friendship withall men , or with no man. should any say , there is no such 〈◊〉 knowable , should he not contradict the holy ghost ? so must we say , there is not such a man knowable to a mortall man as a false prophet , or an heretick ; and therefore paul doth but mocke the philippians , who were not infallible , when he writeth to them thus , beware of dogs ; and john when he saith , if any man bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house . might not libertines say , god commandeth us to run the hazard of incroaching upon gods chaire , for who but he who knows the heart can tell who is the heretick , who not : when the lord rebukes association with theeves , robbers , slanderers , prov. . , . ps . . , holdeth he not forth that the theif , the robber , and the slanderer are knowable ? . these whom the lord rebukes , because they judge not jezabel and deceiving teachers , may know jezabel and deceiving teachers ; but the lord rebukes the church of thyatira for this , revel . . . and all other churches in them . . those that faithfull elders are to beware of , and to watch against , are knowable ; but the faithfull elders of ephesus are to watch against the incomming of grievous wolves , act. . , , . . those that the holy ghost doth forewarn the saints of , that they may be rooted in the truth , and armed against them , those are knowable . but christ for●told his people that some would come in his name , and professe so much , who yet come in their owne name . paul foretels of some who shall speake lyes in hypocrisie , and teach doctrines of devills , tim. ● ▪ and peter , pet. . , , . tele of some bringing in privily damnable heresies , doth the lord bid us judge in charity all these tares to be wheat , and their heresies truths , because we are not infallible ? and doth he foretell of such coggers and jugglers , and yet presupposeth none on earth shall be able to know them ? and if any man say familists , socinians , &c. are these men , they runne the hazard of reproaching god , notwithstanding the lord foretold us of them , and set marks upon their brows yeares agoe ? or if any now say there is a false teacher , or an heretick breathing on earth , they must either give themselves out to be infallible , and so must either be grand impostors , or then apostles and prophets living againe . and this same argument from our impotency to beleeve , was as strong in the old testament against the equity of such laws as god made against false prophets , deut. . levit. . for it was as unjust for god to command to put to death men , the frame and imaginations of whose heart , were onely evill from their youth , then , as now , because they beleeved not , and could not repent , and abstaine from prophesying in baal , and speaking lyes in the name of the lord , since hearts were no more naturally able without the grace of god to repent and beleeve under the old testament , then under the new. and upon the same reason they tell us , god must have a willing people , psal . . and obedience compelled by the sword , is no obedience at all , and far lesse is it religions obedience . to which i answer : and did not the lord require a willing people then in the old testament as now ? . did god ever accept of faith and repentance extorted through feare of a direfull sword ? . does the lord accept of compelled and forced abstinence from murther , patricide , adultery ▪ as obedience , because undeniably the sword of the magistrate doth avenge murther , adultery , parricide , rom. . m. williams a carnall weapon , a sword does produce a carnall repentant , a 〈◊〉 , an outside , as uniformity things a 〈◊〉 , what an unregenerate man does is sin , preaching , sin-preaching , breaking of bread , no betterthen the oblation of swines bloud ; ergo , the magistrate must compell men to sin , if he force the conscience by the sword. answ . the sword produceth no repentance at all , for externall repentance is no repentance either in name or thing , the lord commandeth indeed externall repentance , but precepts are not given to the outward man , as to the adequate and proper object of the commandement of god ; the magistrate indeed forbiddeth speaking of blasphemy , and teaching of lyes in the name of the lord ; but he forbiddeth not teaching of lyes , or abstinence from blaspheming in a spirituall , but in a carnall co-active by force of the sword , and externall way , because he cannot punish the spirituall and internall wayes , and manner of externall obedience , and therefore he cannot under paine of bodily censure , command and forbid these wayes of obedience , so the magistrate forbiddeth murther , but god , not the magistrate forbiddeth murther , or commandeth abstinence from killing , out of mercy and love to our neighbour ; for the magistrate cannot punish heart-hatred of our neighbour , or rash anger , but in so far as it comes out to his senses , in striking , maiming , or opprobrious speeches ; and these he can forbid , and censure and punish . so we say the magistrate is but a peece , or a bit of an ordinance ( though both lawfull and necessary , rom. . for our good ) to reform the outside , & to work outward reformation , and when he commandeth the outward man , and saith , sweare not , blaspheme not , speake not lies in the name of the lord , kill not , steale not under the paine of feeling the stroke of the sword : he commands not sinning , for though he forbid onely externall abstinence from sins that troubles the outward man , without any spirituall and internall right way of abstaining , he commands not sin and hypocrisie , perse , and kindly , and properly . . because the magistrate , as the magistrate should , and ought , as the minister of god , give commandements to the outward man , under paine of corporall punishment , not to the soule , or to the inward man. . because that externall obedience , not to kill , not to steale , not to speake lies , is good , lawfull externall obedience , to man , and profitable in the state , for the end that god hath appointed it , which is the peaceable conversing one with another , that same abstinence from killing in an unrenewed man , who abstaineth not from killing for fear of god , and love to his brethren , is a sinfull abstinence , and carnall repentance , by accident , and in relation to the law of god ; but the magistrate neither commandeth abstinence from killing , from an inward spirituall principle , nor forbiddeth he the contrary : he commandeth not abstinence from false doctrine out of the love that the messenger ows to him who purchased the flock with his bloud ; nor forbiddeth he such abstinence , but onely he commandeth abstinence from speaking lies to the people of god. . if we distinguish obedience , there is first a necessary and good , and lawfull obedience . . there is an obedience compleat and intire , and full , and sincere . outward obedience , which the magistrate commandeth , is good and lawfull , and necessary obedience , and is , in the kinde of externall and necessary obedience ( i mean ) necessary for its end , the safety of the society , not hypocriticall , unlawfull or sinfull . in this notion onely , it is commanded by the magistrate , and the omission of it unlawfull , and punishable , by the sword of the deputy , and minister of god ; but if we speake of an obedience compleat , full , and sincere ; which is required from the whole man , in order to the law of god. then the outward obedience that the magistrate demandeth is not compleat , intire , nor sincere , but in relation to the law of god , which requireth intire obedience from the whole man , soule and body , it is not full , not intire , not sincere obedience , but an outside of obedience but in this sense the magistrate doth not demand obedience to the law of god , for he hath to doe with the outward man onely , and as a magistrate hath nothing to doe with , the soule , and conscience : so than , though the magistrate command to preach sound doctrine , forbid to preach lies in the name of the lord , yet he commandeth not hypocrisie and sin ; for this argument may as well prove the magistrate should neither forbid nor punish murther , nor command abstinence from murther to an unrenewed man , for an unrenewed man cannot but abstaine from murther in a sinfull way , and his abstinence from murther in order to the spirituall law of god , is no better then the oblation of swines bloud , and the cutting off of a dogs head to god , esa . . , . as is all externall obedience of either tables of the law , first , or second , without faith , and spirituall inward morall principles , and heart-obedience , and mr. williams cannot answer this argument , but by the principles of anabaptists , familists , and enthysiasts , who say all outward ordinances , ministery , preaching sacraments , yea preachers and magistrates , who command outward obedience to god are unlawfull , now under the new testament . so mr. dell denies all reformation , but heart-reformation . other reformation beside this in the heart , i know none , and gospel-reformation onely mindeth the reformation of the heart ; then away with preaching , laws , the sword , synods . gospel-reformation ( saith he ) is inward , layes hold upon the heart , soule , and inner man , and changes and renewes that , doth not much busie it selfe about outward formes , or externall conformity , but onely mindes the conformity of the heart ; for when the heart is right with god , the outward formes cannot be amisse . christ saith touching the worship of the new testament , god is a spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in spirit and truth ; he speakes not one word of any outward formes , so that , god in the gospel-reformation aimes at nothing but the heart . so the father of the familists , impure h. nicholas . if i could give all my goods to the poor , &c. if i have not love , it is not any thing to me ; that is , whosoever hath not christ , he is without god , and without righteousnesse in this world , i mean the being like christ , which is conceived through the power of the holy ghost , and not any ceremoniall christ , which one man speaketh to another , or promiseth to another , through his ceremoniall service ; which he , out of his prudency , according to his fleshly minde setteth up : o no , the worke or begetting of god commeth not so ●lenderly to passe as men now at this time teach each other out of their unregenerate spirit ; he meaneth by men now at this time , protestants who conjoyne pauls planting , and the watering of apollos , with the working of the spirit , whereas this impostor taketh him to the latter , and railes against the former , as a ceremoniall and fleshly christ . see more of this in del , theologia germanica , rise and reigne of antinomians , bullinger , calvin , towne , the antino●ian sal●marsh . upon this ground , samuel gortyn , right down , denies all magistracy , learning , books , libraries , lawes , and he hath reason so to do , for magistracy , because it is a carnall ordinance , cannot produce inward and spirituall repentance , therefore magistrates upon the same ground cannot coerce nor punish hereticks , since heresie is a spirituall evill , which cannot be remedied by a sword of steal , for god onely can enlighten the minde . . if therefore this argument be good , neither can the externall preaching of the word be a lawfull ordinance , for god onely gives repentance ; the preaching of the word without the spirit , can but produce a carnall repentance , and the bounder may cry downe all preaching of the word , if he but change the word magistrate , into the word preacher , or ambassadour , for this course of preaching by men , may lay a stumbling ( i speake in his words ) in every mans way , to prophane the things of god , by doing them out of obedience to men , ( that are but earthen vessels ) not to god. if he say , that is by accident , because men , look to men , as men , and not to god , whose word men carry . so say i , mens abstaining from doing violence and murther , which the magistrate forbids , may infer god , hath given no power to the magistrate to forbid murther and adultery ; for men may so prophane the sixt command , and abstaine from murther because the magistrate forbids it , not because god forbids it in the sixt commandement . and the preaching of the word may be art downe errours , so long as a man sound in the faith preacher● but when there ariseth a corrupt teacher , a ●●ara●h , that knew not joseph , errours shall walke on every side , and that not by permission , but by ▪ commandement . now this is the reasonlesse reason of the 〈◊〉 , against the coercive power of magistrates , these men argue ever , from the abused power of a magistrate , and from persecution , to prov● hereticks ought not to be punished , as if punishing of false teachers were persecution , which they can never prove . but to goe on , that cannot be the way of god which necessarily inferreth the darkeness , inevidence , and inextricable difficultie of understanding the scriptures . but such is the way of libertie of conscience ; ergo. the proposition is clear , for if god hath not sufficiently cleared the way to heaven , but left a testament that men may expound to be the pathway to life eternall , and the just contrary a pathway to life eternall , then shall men know certainly no safe way to life eternall , and the scriptures shall not make men inexcusable , contrary to hos . . . and . . psal . . , , , . ezek. . , . luke . , , . joh. . . and . . tim. . , . psal . . . prov. . , , . deut. . , . matth. . , , . . . papists shall be in better case then we , for though they say that the scriptures are darke and obscure , and admit of themselves divers and contrary senses , so that we cannot bottome our faith on them , yet the juridical interpretation of the church is to men a ground of faith , and that is the ground of faith which the church giveth , as the only true sense of scripture . the assumption is clear , because libertines suppose that the sense of scripture can be undeniably known to none : what is to one saint a ground of faith , the just contradicent to another is a ground of faith , and what sense to one saint is an article of saving faith , to another is a damnable heresie ; and both are to be tolerated , neither corrected nor punished , for since neither are infallible , neither can deserve rebukes or rods , nor punishment civill or ecclesiasticall ; because knowing of the word of god in scripture is not in our freewill , but natural , and whatsoever sense the word offers to the understanding true or false , the man cannot be guilty in receiving the false sense , because he is not punishable therefore , as libertines argue ; and what then should hinder but jewes may be saved in their sense of the old testament , who yet deny christ to be come in the flesh ? nor are they to bee rebuked , far lesse to be punished by god or man therefore , because cor. . in reading of the old testament a vaile is over their heart , and if it be injustice in the magistrate to punish men for errors which they cannot eschew ; can the righteous judge of the world punish them therefore ? ergo , in such errors they are innocent and sin not , and if this bee said , what should hinder others to be saved by beleeving the contrary sense of the old testament ? and the like may be said of the new testament ; and so all hereticks and sectaries receiving the scriptures , as pharisees , sadduces , herodians , papists , socinians , &c. shall be saved every man in his own religion , and the sense of this , eschew an heretick , to a saint must be , eschew the company of an heretick ; to another saint it is , adhere to , and converse with the same saint , for he is no heretick but sound in the saith , and it falsely supposed to be an heretick , and the scripture upon this ground hath two contradictorie senses , which being beleeved and practised , must save , and revealeth two contradictorie wills of god , and every man may take scripture as his minde apprehends it ; and whereas the scripture makes it self the judge and determiner of all questions and controversies in religion : this way leaves all questions to every mans conscience , to the conscience of a jew , of a turk , of an american , of a papist , the old testament as expounded by a jew is his conscience , the old and new testament as the popish church expound it , is their rule of faith , and the scripture lifting up christ , and casting down christ , and speaking with a hundred divers and contrary tongues , is every mans obliging rule ; and because there is no man infallible in taking up the right sense of the scripture , if yee controll the jew , or put him off his sense of the old testament , which yeelds him this faith , maries son is a false lying prophet , the apostles and all the martyrs are but cousening impostors , yea domineer over the conscience and force his faith , because yee are not infallible , ye may not condemn the way of any , for yee know not but they be the wheat , and you the t●res , for ought that scripture saith on either side : never man in this life is sure of his faith and salvation from scripture , and since the jew may be wheat , if ye would go to raze his faith , you go to pluck up the wheat before the harvest , and suppose we and all the jewes were converted to the christian faith , and if we conceive pauls prophecie concerning them rom. ● to be fulfilled , they shall be converted , yet . we are not infallible , but live upon our fancies and conjectures , touching the meaning of rom. . say libertines . . suppose the fulness of the gentiles be converted to christ , and we among them , and all the jewes , and that in our daies the earth be filled with the knowledge of the lord , and that all the sons of zion be taught of god , and that the wildernesse blossome as a rose , and the light of the moon be as the light of the sun , and the light of the sun be seven-fold , as the light of seven daies , and that all the glorious prophecies in isaiah , zechariah , and the rest be fulfilled in our daies , yet by the doctrine of libertines , all these are but to us , for any certaintie we have , night fancies and dreames of crazie and feaver-sick heads : for master john goodwin , undeniably the learnedst and most godly man of that way , hath said in a marginall note , of men for piety and learning , i cannot admire enough . the vindicators call the denying of scriptures to be the word of god a damnable heresie , and we have no certainty that the scriptures of the old and new testament which we now have , either the english translation , or the originall of hebrew and greek copies are the word of god. so then holding the scriptures to be the word of god in either of these two senses , or significations of the words ( either translations , or originall ) can with no tolerable pretext or colour be called a foundation of christian religion , unlesse their foundations be made of the credit , learning and authoritie of men . because there is need to wonder , by the way , at this , let the reader observe , that libertines resolve all our faith , and so the certaintie of our salvation on paper and inke ; and mr. john goodwin will allow us no foundation of faith , but such as is made of grammers and characters , and if the scripture be wrong pointed , or the printer drunke , or if the translation slip , then our faith is go●e : whereas the meanes of conveying the things beleeved may be fallible , as writing , printing , translating , speaking , are all fallible meanes of conveying the truth of old and new testament to us , and yet the word of god in that which is delivered to us is infallible , . for let the printer be fallible , . the translation fallible . . the grammer fallible . . the man that readeth the word or publisheth it fallible , yet this hindreth not but the truth it self contained in the written word of god is infallible ; i suppose four men who shall shew to a wife her husband among ten thousands , all four fallible and may mistake , yet when they have brought the husband to the wife , it cannot follow that the wife doth not certainly and as infallibly know her own husband by his tongue , voice , countenance , proportion of body and statute , as one can know another without any danger of mistake : so it comes to the eares of a man born blind , joh. . there is a prophet called iesus the son of marie , who will infallibly and indeclinably restore sight to this blind man , yet the fame and report by which this is carried to the mans notice and knowledge is fallible , all men standing truly , that which the lord reporteth of them , liars , and such as can be deceived , yet it is no consequence that iesus doth restore the man to his sight in a way subject to miscarrying , and declinably , and upon a fallible hazard , so as he may goe as blind from iesus as he came to him : now in the carrying of the doctrine of the prophets and apostles to our knowledge , through printers , translators , grammer , pens , and tongues of men from so many ages , all which are fallible , we are to look to an unerring and undeclinable providence , conveying the testament of christ , which in it self is infallible and begs no truth , no authoritie either from the church as papists dreame , or from grammer , characters , printer , or translator , all these being adventitious , and yesterday accidents to the nature of the word of god , and when mr. goodwin resolves all our faith into a foundation of christian religion ( if i may call it religon ) made of the credit , learning and authority of men , he would have mens learning and authoritie either the word of god , or the essence and nature thereof , which is as good as to include the garments and cloathes of man , in the nature and definition of a man , and build our faith upon a paper foundation , but our faith is not bottomed or resolved upon these fallible meanes . but what arguments have bellarmine , stapleton , gr●●serus , becam●s , 〈◊〉 , valentia , the councel of tr●nt , and other papists to make good that the church of sound catholikes ( who if they could fill their chaire ) are of more authoritie then printers or particular men , translators of the scripture ? for they lead us from the written word as mr. goodwin doth , and say the church giveth authoritie to the word of god , and resolve our faith upon the testimonie of the church ( saith tann●rus ) as the infallible rule of faith , on the authority of the church ( saith bellarmine ) quoad explicationem & quoad nos , in regard of our beleeving on god , not simply revealing , but so and so revealing ( saith stapleton ) by his church &c. so as we know not that god hath revealed his truth , but by , and for the infallible proposal of the church saith gregorius de valentia ) on the authoritie of the first veritie , god revealing himselfe as the principle and first cause of faith ( saith ioan. de lugo ) and malderus ) and on the authoritie of the church as they are men eminent for miracles , as in that which is first beleeved ut in primo creditum , and the only infallible rule of faith , say suarez , aegid , connick , lod. maeratius , and. duvallius , fr. silvius , lod. caspensis ? all which speak fairer for the credit of faith in words , then mr. iohn goodwin , who raiseth our faith no higher then the english grammer , the printer , the learning and authoritie of men . . we beleive that christ is god man , not for the authoritie of men , and so of the rest of the articles of our faith , because christ saith iohn . . ye sent unto iohn , and he bare witness to the truth . v. . but i receive not testimony from men , on which word chrysostome saith . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i need not ( saith our saviour ) the testimonie of men , 〈◊〉 i am god , but because ye give more heed unto iohn , and beleeve him to be most worthy of all of credit , and ye come to him as a prophet , i speak this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who will then receive mr goodwins testimonie , who gives us nothing for faith but fluctuation of opinion , and some topick grounds from mens credit , learning and authoritie , that the scripture is the word of god , and turnes all our faith into fancie . . the scripture resolves our faith on , thus saith the lord , the only authoritie that all the prophets alledge , and paul , thes . . . for this cause also thanke we god without ceasing because when yea received the word of god which ye heard of us , ye received it not as the word of man ( made of mens credit and learning ( as mr. goodwin saith ) but ( as it is in truth ) the word of god. . weak , dry , and saplesse should be our faith , all our patience and consolations of the scriptures , rom. . . all our hope on the word of god , ps . , , , , . all our certainty of faith , if it were so as mr. goodwin averreth . but we have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a more sure word of prophesie , surer then that which was heard on the mount for our direction , and the establishing of our faith , pet. . . joh. . . search the scriptures , for they bear witnesse of me ; let them be judge between the jews and me , whether i be the son of god or no , for they beare witnesse of me : now if we have no better warrant , that the books of the old and new testament , that we now have , to wit , the originall of hebrew and greek and translations are the word of god , then that which is made of the credit of the authority and learning of men , then must all our comfort of beleeving be grounded upon this mans , and this mans grammar and skill , in hebrew , greek , latine , english , a●d he is not infallible in any of these . and must our lively hope be bottomed on mens credit and learning ? then for any thing we know on the contrary , we have but dreams , opinions , and at best , mans word , for the word of god , and how is the word of prophesie a more sure word ; for these were written and translated prophesies , of which peter speaketh ; mr. goodwin and libertines , who put heaven and christ , and the lively hope of our inheritance , to the conjectures of doubting scepticks could well reply to peter , the word of prophesie cannot be sure ; for we have no certainty that the scriptures of the prophets , of the old and new testament , which we have either hebrew or greek copies of , are the word of god , but undoubtedly christ appealeth to the scriptures as to the onely judge of that controversie , between him and the jewes , whether the son of mary was the eternall son of god , and the saviour of the world , he supposed the written scriptures which came through the hands of fallible printers and translatours , and were copies at the second , if not at the twentieth hand from the first copy of moses and the prophets , and so were written by sinfull men , who might have miswritten and corrupted the scripture , yet to be a judge and a rule of faith , and fit to determine that controversie and all others , and a judge de facto , and actually preserved by a divine hand from errours , mistakes and corruptions , else christ might , in that , appealed to a lying judge , and a corrupt and uncertaine witnesse ; and though there be errours of number , genealogies , &c. of writing in the scripture , as written or printed , yet we hold providence watcheth so over it , that in the body of articles of faith , and necessary truths , we are certaine with the certainty of faith , it is that same very word of god , having the same speciall operations of enlightning the eyes , converting the soule , making wise the simple , as being lively , sharper then a two-edged sword , full of divinity , life , majesty , power , simplicity , wisdome , certainty , &c. which the prophets of old , and the writings of the evangelists , and apostles had . m. goodwins argument makes as much against christ , and the apostles , as against us , for they could never in all their sermons and writings so frequently , bottome and found the faith on 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is written in the prophets , as david saith , as isaiah saith , and hosea , as daniel saith , as moses and samuel , and all the prophets beare witnesse , if they had had no other certainty , that the writings of the prophets , that came to their hands , was the very word of god , but the credit , learning and authority of men , as mr. goodwin saith , for sure christ and the apostles , and evangel●sts , had not the authentick and first copies of moses and the prophets , but only copies written by men , who might mistake , printers and translators not being then , more then now , immediately inspired prophets , but fallibly men , and obnoxious to failings , mistakes and ignorance of ancient hebraismes , and force of words ; and if ye remove an un●rring providence , who doubts but men might adde a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or substract , and so vitiate the fountaine sense ? and omit points , change consonants , which in the hebrew and greek , both might quite alter the sense : nor can any say , christ and the apostles being infallible , could well cite the prophets , without a mistake , though the copies might have been vitiate and corrupt . . because the very citing of these testimonies by christ and his apostles , made them scripture , and so of infallible authority ; but our citing of them , ( since both , printers and translatours are not immediately inspired , and we also might erre ) cannot adopt them into canonicall and authentick scripture , such as was first written by the immediately inspired prophets . i shall answer , that first , this objection presumeth , that christ and the apostles might , and did finde errours , and mis-printings even in written scripture , which might reduce the church in after ages to an invincible ignorance in matters of faith , and yet they gave no notice to the church thereof ; or if there was no errour , de facto , then for so many hundred yeares , yet there are now substantiall errours , and so soule , that it may be , we have no word of god , at all , amongst us , and god hath no church , no beleever on earth , but we must all take the word of printers and translatours , which is meerly the word of man : and what is become of all the martyrs , that suffered by the bloudy woman babel ? they dyed for meer conjectures and opinions , for they had not the first originall copies of moses , and the prophets , yea stephen the first martyr , who according to all our copies act. . addeth five to moses his soules , that went downe to egypt , in that glorious sermon that he hath before his death , when he sealed the truth with his bloud , and dyed gloriously , and said , lord jesus receive my spirit , dyed but upon the faith of mens fallible skill in grammer , printing and writing , for he citeth the writings of moses to his enemies that stoned him , according to the copies that they then had ; who would quickly have controlled him , if he had cited false copies , and stephens owne testimony was contraverted , and therefore except we say , that stephen and christ , and the apostles , cited the testimonies of the prophets as they were then obvious to the eyes and reading of both the people of god , and the enemies , and that not simply , as their owne words which they spake as immediately inspired , but as the testimony of the prophets , according to the then written copies , we must say they spake not ingeniously the truth of god , for it was against truth , candour , ingenuity , to christ and the apostles to say , as it is written in your law , jo. . . and so often it is written , if they would not have the hearers to receive , with certainty of faith . and full assurance free from all doubting , and feare of humaue fallibility , that what they cited as written , was undoubtedly the same very truth of god , and no other , which moses and the prophets spoke and wrote ; and if they would not have them to read , search , and beleeve these same scriptures , and to conceive that they drew arguments in the new testament to prove and confirme their doctrine , from that which was written by moses and the prophets in the old testament , and would not have them to beleeve them , onely because new testament writers immediately inspired , had so said . . if god will have us to try and examine all spirits , all doctrines , by the scriptures written , then are we certainly assured , that the books we now have , of the old and new testament , are the very word of god , though we cannot , by any possibility , have the first and originall authentick copies of moses and the prophets and apostles ; because . god would not bid us try , and then leave us no rule to try withall , but our owne naturall light , which must lead us into darknesse . . the visible church should not be guilty of unbeleefe , if the written word were not among us , or then christ and his apostles speaking to us , as is cleare , joh. . . rom. . , . matth. . , . the assumption is cleare by the commended practise of the bereans , who tryed pauls doctrine , by the scriptures , act. . see rivetus , whitaker , calvin . . by the command of god , thess . . . joh. . . try all things , try the spirits . . john would not call those blessed who read and hear , rev. . . nor would paul recommend reading to timothy , and continuance in the doctrine of the scriptures , and so extoll the necessity and utility of the scripture , and the indwelling of the word of god in us , as he doth , tim. . . tim. , , . col. . . nor could the things written by john c. . . by moses and the prophets , luke . , , . be holden forth as sufficient to bring soules to heaven , and to cause them eschew hell , if it were true , that we have no certainty that the scriptures of the old and new testament are the very word of god , but such as is made of mens credit and learning . . yea and so , what god spake immediately to abraham , moses , and the prophets , could not be infallibly and by certainty of faith to them the word of god ; for if god spake to them in a language intelligible , they had no certainty of faith , that the words that came from god , did signifie thus and thus ; for sure , god , by immediate inspiration , taught them not grammar , and significations of words , and those that read the law written by gods finger on two tables of stone , those who heard moses and the prophets preach in their mother-tongue even the jewes , who read the originall first hebrew copy of moses and the prophets , must have had no warrant , that , that was the word of god , but the authority of father , mother , and nurses , who first taught them their mother-tongue , for sure the prophets were not school-masters to teach them hebrew ; so by this learning there was never since the world was , any certainty of faith , but such conjecturall humane and fallible opinions in all the matters of god , as is resolved ultimately ( saith mr. goodwin ) into mens fallible and topicke authority and skill of grammar , and all divine faith is perished out of the earth : nay there never could be any divine faith on earth , except god by a supernaturall power taught men first grammar , and then to beleeve , for which we have no warrant , so all our faith must bee dreams . and since mr. goodwin acknowledgeth a supernaturall power of the spirit of grace to beleeve ; what else doth this spirit cause us beleeve , but lyes ? or at best phancies resolved into humane credit ? which may be false for any certainty of knowledge that libertines allow us ? yea confident i am ( saith mr. goodwin ) that the wisest and most learned of them , are not able clearly or demonstratively , to informe the magistrate and judge , what blasphamy , and what idolatry it was , which was , by god , sentenced to death under the law. but so mr. goodwin in accusing our darknesse , and in freeing the magistrate of a duty he ow● to god and the church , layeth obscurity on the scripture , as papists doe , though for another end : and i am as confident there was some soro●●y , some wilfull murther , some incest , some plea 〈…〉 and bloud , stroak and stroak , some adultery sentenced by god to be punished by the sword , that mr. jo. goodwin is not able clearly and demonstratively to informe the magistrate of . and by this argument , murther , sorcery , incest , and adultery , ought not to be punished by the sword . can mr. jo. goodwin demonstratively informe us , what be the false prophets , matth. . the grievous wolves , act. . the heretick , tit. . . that we are not to beleeve , but to avoid ? and by this argument we must not beware of them , nor avoid them , since they are unknowable . dr. jer. taylor layeth downe the same ground for tolerating papists , socinians , familists , and all the dreaming prophets on earth , because of the difficulty there is of expounding scripture , and all the means and wayes of comming to the true sense thereof , are fallible . there is variety of reading , various interpunction , a parenthesis , a letter , an acce●● may much alter the sense . answ . may not reading , interpunction , a parenthesis , a letter , an acc●m , alter the sense of all fundamentalls in the decalogue ? of the principles of the gospel ? and turne the scripture in all points ( which mr. doctour restricts to some few darker places , whose senses are off the way to heaven , and lesse necessary ) in a field of problemes , and turne all beleeving into digladiations of wits ? all ou● comforts of the scriptures into the reelings of a wind-mill , and pha●cies of seven moons at once in the firmament ? this is to put our faith and the first fruits of the spirit , and heaven and hell to the presse . but though printers and pens of men may erre , it followeth not that heresies should be tolerated , except we say , that our faith is ultimately resolved upon characters , and the faith of printers . we must say , we have not the cleare and infallible word of god , because the scripture comes to our hand , by fallible means , which is a great inconsequence , for though scribes , trans●atours , grammarians , ●rimers , may all erre , it followeth not that an erring providence of him that hath seven eyes , hath not delivered to the church , the scriptures containing the infallible truth of god. say that baruth might erre in writing the prophesie of jeremiah , it followeth not that the prophesie of jeremiah , which we have , is not the infallible word of god ; if all translatours and printers did their alone watch o●er the church , it were something , and if there were not one with seven eyes to care for the scripture . but for tradition , councells , popes , fathers , they are all fallible means , and so far forth to be beleeved , as they bring scripture with them . dr. taylor tells us of many inculpable causes of errour ; the variety of humane understanding , what is plaine to one , is ●bscure to another . grego●ies and ambroses missall were both laid upon the altar a whole night , to try which of them god would miraculously approve . by the morrow m●●tins , the missall of greg●ry was found t●rne in peeces , and throwne upon the church , and ambroses found open in a posture to be read . the miracle was expounded , that ambroses missall was to be received . dr. taylor saith , that he would expound it , that gregories missall was to be preferred , and to be spread through the world . answ . i have read of no faultlesse causes of errour , nor of any invincible errour in things that we are to beleeve and know by vertue of a divine commandement ; for this is a speciall false principle , that to know god , as he hath revealed himselfe in his word , is not commanded of god in his word . because to this david exhorteth solom●n , and shall solom●n my son know the lord , chron. . . and when the apostle bids as be renewed in the spirits of our mind , ephes . . . rom. . . and growing in knowledge is recommended , pet. . . cor. . . prov. . . and is set downe as a blessing , esa . . . exod. . . prov. . . hos . . . it s sure to know god , and his revealed will in his word must oblige us . the end of the revealed will is to know god , deut. . . . prov. . . . the first command injoyneth all worship internall , and externall , as to know god , hosea . . jer. . . jer. . . kings . . chron. . . and reason , the mind be under the law of god , as will and affections 〈◊〉 . . there is a connexion between the minde and other faculties , or affections , a corrupt minde is often conjoyned with a guilty conscience , and faith and a pure conscience go together , tim. . . tim. . ● . pet. ● . , . keep the one , and you shall the more easily keep the other , make shipwrack of faith , and a good conscience cannot swim safe to land , and the will , and rebellious affections , and lusts have influence upon the actuall and habituall blinding of the minde , in that men walking after their lusts are quickly blinded in their minde , and the judgement depraved , . pet. . . they are willingly ignorant , and so refuse to know god. . turne away their ear from the law , refuse the means of the knowing of god , and dig not for wisdome , as for silver , hate knowledge , prov. . . c. . , , , , . . blinde their owne minds and shut their eyes , esa . . . matth. . , . ezek. . . deut. . , . object . all these places do well prove that to be unwilling to know god is a sinne , but not that the simply minde-ignorance of god is sinne . answ . and why is it sin to be unwilling to know god , which the word commandeth , if not to know god be not sinfull as to be willing not to fear , not to love , not to hope in god , not to obey god , not to love our neighbour is sin , as well as not to fear , not to love god , are sins ? therefore what is truth in it selfe , and revealed to bee truth in the scripture , if it appeare an untruth to another , the cause of that is not inculpable ( as d. taylor saith ) as if the letter of the scripture tendred it selfe darke and un●●plicable to us without our fault . but the wisdome of god ( we beleeve ) in the scripture , is plaine , to those that open their eyes , otherwise heresie should not onely be no sinne , contrary to the word of god , tit. . . tim. . . . tim. . , . tim. . , , , . but an innocent apprehension of apparent truth , as there is no guiltinesse in an eye vitiated with humours mis-apprehending colours that are white ; and seeing them to be red when they are not so . and for that way of trying the two missalls , they are but doting fools , that would chuse either of them ; for the word of god may judge them both to be corrupt and superstitious , and their trying which of the two was best , by a miracle , was a foolish and phantasticall tempting of god , much like chilingsworths decyding of controversies of religion , by lotry , because scripture , reason , councells , fathers , doctors , tradition , are all insufficient , which sure is d●rogatory to the worth and perfection of scripture , which maketh the simple wise , ps . . and must shew the man that erreth , his errour , if he shut not his eyes at light . dr. taylor saith , covetousnesse is often is cause of heresie . thebulis , quia rejectus ab episcopatu ●ierosolymitano , turbare capit ecclesiam , saith egesippus in eusebius , tertullian turned montanist for missing the bishopricke of garthage , after aggrippinus , and so did montanus , for the same discontent , saith nicephorus , novatu● would have been bishop of rome ; donatus of car●●age , arri●s of alexandria , aerius of sebastia ; socrates said asterius did frequent the conventicles of the arrians , nam episcopatum nliquem ambiebat . let the errour be never so great , if it be not against an ar●●cle of the creed , if it be simple , and have no confederation with the personall iniquity of the man , the opinion is as innocent as the person ; though perhaps as false as he is ignorant , and therefore shall burne , though he himselfe escape . the man cannot by humane judgement be counted an heretick , unlesse his opinion be an open recession , from plaine demonstrative authority ( which must needs be notorious , voluntary , vincible , and criminall ) or that there be a palpable serving of an end accidentall and extrinsecall to the opi●ion , but these ends spirituall are hard to be discerned . the opinion of purgatory though false , being neither fundamentally false , nor practically impious , is no heresie . ans . . i am not so uncharitable of tertullian , as dr. taylor , for aerius he maintained no heresie , i hope , episcopacy is no article of faith . . i know no errour in the matters of god speculative , but the lord forbids it in his word . if every thing written be written for our instruction , fundamentall , or non-fundamentall as all the scripture 〈◊〉 , we are under a commandement of god , we ( i say ) who live in the visible church , are to know all , and beleeve all things written , be they fundamentall or no , for god hath written them all for us ; ergo , the ignorance of any thing written is a sin , and a breach of a command , and so 〈…〉 errour , happy are these that know and do . now under doing , i comprehend the faith of the trinity , and the most of articles , touching christ , which do practically concern me , because i sin , if i doe not both know and beleeve them , else they are written as aristotles acroamaticks the ignorance of which in an unlette●ed man ( i suppose ) is no breach of a divine command , and i conceive the ignorance of the stories in the old and new testament , of pauls leaving his cloak at troas is a sin , in all within the visible church , for that the holy ghost hath written these not for the instruction of one ; but of all who heare or may heare of them , within the visible church . . no error , except of the article of the creed is arraigned as heresie by the doctor , but he meaneth by error ignorance and mis-beleif both ; for i hope the doctors charitis will not send all to hell , many godlie there may be who have much ignorance of god , who know not , or are simply ignorant of some of the twelve articles of the creed , and of some of the ten commandements , if therefore error here doth include not beleeving , as heresie must necessarily doe , the pertinacious mis-beleeving and denying of many stories in the bible , as of the deluge , dividing of the red sea , preserving of ionah alive in the whales belly , raising of lazarus , ( if obstinacie be added ) must be no lesse heresie and an open belying of the god of truth , then the denying of an article of the creed , for the authoritie of god who commands us to know the one as well as the other , is in both despised , when we are ignorant of either . . it is to beg the question , to say that any error in the matters written to us in our lords testament , which so much concerneth both our knowledge and practise , can be simple errors and have no confederation with personall iniquity , for it is as much as if not to read our husbands love-letter from end to end , or to cause to read it , if it comes to the wives hard , were not our sin against our husband christ , whereas to be ignorant of any thing in it , and mis-beleeve , it is sinfull ignorance , and naturall blindness , so the doctor makes sin so innocent as to have no consideration with sin . . to say the opinion shall burne though himself ●●cape , is to expound the place cor. . , , , . most corruptly in a n●w glosse of the doctors own , as if hay and stubb●● that is , vaine and unprofitable opinions , that are builded upon the foundation christ , were not sinful opinions in the matters of god , when as they are hay and stubble to be b●ent . . because they are against a commandment , that every man is to take heed , how , or what he is to build on the foundation , v. . but he that builds hay and stubble obeyes not that commandement , but let every one take heed how hee buildeth thereupon . . building hay and stubble , that is , vain and fruitless opinions upon the foundation , is privatively opposed to building of gold , silver , and precious stones , vers . . but that is a work of faith , and such a work as shall abide , and have a reward , v. . . the work that shall be brought to judgement , and made manifest so , as it shall be burnt with fire , and shall be judged to bee a fruitlesse work , must be sin . but the building of 〈◊〉 and stubble upon the 〈◊〉 christ is such a work , v. , , . and that the man himself shall be saved , because that by faith he is builded upon the foundation christ , but the work burnt with fire , will no more prove that the building of hay is not sin , then that peters j●daizing , and davids adul●●ry and murther were not fins , because peter and david are saved , for the apostle there compares the apostles to builders , ( as before he compared them to 〈◊〉 , v. , , . ) and the preaching of doctrine to a building , and he makes christ the foundation of the building , and two sorts of super-structures ; good doctrine , and that is gold and silver , and vain and unedifying toyes added to the doctrine of christ , 〈◊〉 hay and stubble ; now he makes the judgement that trieth all doctrine to be fire , ( whether it be the last judgement , or fierie afflictions , it is no great matter ) our good doctrine will bide the tryall of the fire and not be consumed , and the man rewarded for his so building , and bad doctrine will be burns , and not abide the lords fire when it is tryed , for false doctrine will vanish in the day of tryall , and yeeld the sower of such doctrine no comfort , yet he himself keeping the foundation christ shall be saved , but he shall be ●eded and 〈◊〉 afflicted for his fruitlesse building , so the day seems to be the day of tryal and fiery persecution coming on all the preachers of the gospel , to try the● and their doctrine , as rev. . . the place smels nothing of p●●gato●ie fire , and the most judicious interpreters , even es●ins 〈◊〉 papist , ●●pounds i● well of the lords trying of the sons of levi , mal. . . i will not say amen to dr. taylor , that to count a man an heretick , his opinion must be a plaine upon recession from demonstrative authority , which must needs be voluntary vincible , and criminall , for the sadduces were wilfull , obstinate hereticks in denying the resurrection of the dead , a principall article of faith ; yet it is not clear that their opinion was an open recession from : demonstrative authority . the doctor will not call christs arg●ing : god is the god of dead abraham . ergo , the dead must live againe , matth. . demonstrative . we may have as much naturall blindnesse , as we can hardly see the truth of christs ascention to heaven , and comming againe to judge the quicke and dead , by demonstrative authority from scripture , yet those in the visible church , denying these articles of faith , are hereticks , though there may be degrees of voluntarinesse and obstinacy in hereticks . . that there must be vinciblenesse in all heresie is anobiguous , in the doctors sense , for by vinciblenesse , i take , he means , such vinciblenesse whereby none , by their owne industry and strength of freewill may , if they be not wanting to that grace which is denyed to none , ( as arminians say ) attaine to the light of such consequences , as hereticks wilfully deny . if this be his meaning , he is a friend to pelagius . . if he take vincible , as opposed to invincible ignorance , he popishly then saith , that the scripture offereth to us many things whereof we may be invincibly ignorant . now invincible ignorance , protestants acknowledge onely , in matters of fact , or of gospel-truths never so much as in the letter revealed , as heathens may be invincibly ignorant of christ , and their ignorance not be sinfull , as joh. . . and jacob was invincibly ignorant , in lying with leah , instead of rachel . there can be no such vinciblenesse , or invinciblenesse , in an heretick that hears the gospel , for who ever heare the gospel , and yet remaine ignorant , their ignorance is not invincible , nulla est invincibilis ignorantia juris . . the opinion of purgatory , though it were no heresie ( as the doctor saith , and bringeth no argument to prove it ) yet is not simply , a finlesse errour in such as know , or ought to know ( since the scripture is before their eyes ) that . there is no word of god to warrant it . . since the word , in the parable of lazarus , and the rich glutton , sheweth us , what abideth all men , immediately after they dye , that the bodies of all goe to the earth , and one way or other are buried , and the souls either to heaven or hell , and this he saith of all mankinde . . because all receive either their good things , or their evill , of suffering in this life . . all men are such , as if they beleeve not moses and the prophets , will not beleeve though one rise from the dead . . christ should be unperfect in this place , and in all other places , who should not tell us of a third doom , befalling some after they are dead and buried : where their bodies that were instruments of sin , as the rich gluttons tongue was of gluttony , should be tormented , for their veniall sinnes ; yea and purgatory dwells door-neighbour with covetousnesse , if the doctor remembers that soul-masses to romish masse-mongers , as well as durges , requiems , m●sses , are not a little gainfull . . nor is there any errour of things revealed by the wise lawgiver in scripture , which is meerly speculative , in order to gods end , his glory . it is no lesse derogatory to the lawgivers glory not to beleeve , a virgin shall conceive and bear a son , and , there is one god in three persons , then to kill our brother , though the former be more speculative , farther from the experiments of humane affairs ( as he speaketh ) and more difficult and remoter from humane observation , then the other . object . . errours are then ( saith he ) made sins , when they are contrary to charity , or inconsistent with a good life , or the honour of god. answ . not to beleeve what god saith , is inconsistent with his honour : for nothing intrinsecally is inconsistent with the honour of god , not the eating of the tree of knowledge , no simple act of loving , fearing , beleeving , all are inconsistent with , or agreeable to the honour of god , because he commands , or forbids them . object . . no mans person is to be charged with the odious consequences of his opinion , though the doctrine may be therefore charged , because if he did see the consequences , and then avow them , his person is chargeable with them . answ . the very opinion it selfe may be a blasphemy , by consequence , though the man see it not to be blasphemy : will the doctor say , hymeneus , and alexander , did make shipwrack of faith and blaspheme , because they said the resurrection was past ? yet paul tim. . , . chargeth the persons with blasphemy ; and can the doctor deny that hymeneus , and philetus , increased unto more ungodlinesse , and that their word did eat as a canker , in saying , that the resurrection was past ? which yet paul chargeth on them , tim. . , , . and those that taught circumcision are charged as perverters of soules , act. . yet they but perverted soules , by consequence . the like may be said of such , as paul said tell from christ , and lost all benefit in christ , if they were circumcised , gal. . . it may be they would retract the heresie , if they saw the blasphemies to follow by strong consequence , and it may be not , since they are selfe-condemned . but , sure , the lord chargeth the persons of men as making god a lyar , who beleeve not his truth , and he chargeth epicurisme , let us eat and drinke , for to morrow we shall dye , cor. . on the persons that deny the resurrection : and if the doctrine be a lye , i wonder , how these that lye of god ( since god commandeth to know , and beleeve whatever he saith in his word ) can be innocent . object . if no simple errour condemne us before the throne of god , since god is so pitifull to our crimes , that he pardons many de toto , & de integro , he will far lesse demand an account of our weaknesse ; the strongest understanding cannot pretend immunity from being deceived . answ . then though christ said , joh. . except ye beleeve , that i am b● , ye shall dye in your sins , and he that beleeveth not is condemned already : he chargeth no man guilty of unbeleefe , that heareth the gospel for simple not beleeving but then we are commanded to beleeve no truth that god speaketh , to know no truth , but onely to know it with an inclination of heart , love , and will , toward the commander , and so the minde , and understanding faculty , the noblest , and most excellent peece in the soule must be left lawlesse and free in its operations , from all hazard of guilt or sinne . . if this argument be good , sinnes of infirmities , and of weaknesse , must be no sin . idle words cannot come in reckoning in the last day , contrary to matth. . . for god forgives crimes ; ergo , he will not call us to an account for our venialls . if this conclude any thing , the strongest understanding cannot pretend immunity from being deceived ; ergo , simple ignorance of the things of god is no sin . i may argue no man can pretend to be free of sin in the inclination of the heart and originall guiltinesse , job . . ps . . . gen . . prov. . . joh. . . . eccles . . . ergo , sin is no sin , originall sin , sins of infirmities are no sins . object . no christian is to be put to death for his opinion , which doth not teach impiety or blasphemy . if it plainly and apparently brings in a crime , and himselfe doth act it , or incourage it , then the matter of fact , is punishable , according to its proportion and malignancy ; as if be preach treason , and sedition , his opinion cannot excuse , because it brings in a crime , a man is never the lesse traytor , because he beleeves it lawfull to commit treason , and a man is a murtherer , if he kill his brother unjustly , although he thinke to doe god good service in it ; matters of fact are equally judicable , whether the principle of them he from within or without ; and if a man could pretend to innocency in being seditious , blasphemous or perjured , by perswading himselfe it is lawfull , a gate were opened for all iniquity . — i deny not but certaine and knowne idolatry , or any other sort of practicall impiety , with its principiant doctrine ought to be punished , because it is no other but matter of fact , but no matter of meer opinion ; no errours that of themselves are not sins are to be persecuted by death or corporall inflictions . answ . . the doctor mocketh when he saith , no meer opinions are to be persecuted . that was never in question , a meer opinion , is a meer act of the minde within the walls of the soule , and can be knowne to no man ; for neither magistrate , nor church can judge of invisible and hidden acts of the soule , so he sayes nothing . . the simple apprehension of god to be a fourfooted beast , is by the apostle , rom. . esteemed idolatry , and a mentall changing of the glory of the incorruptible god into the glory of a corruptible creature ; and the profession thereof must then be the profession of manifest idolatry , and so punishable , yet it is a profession of a meer opinion ; but i confesse of a most idolatrous opinion , not of a fact , otherwise by this learning of libertines there can be no sin in simple apprehensions of god , though most prodigious , and monstrous , what is blasphemy , is as controverted and as unjudicable as simple errour . servetus his naming the blessed trinity a cerberus , or three-headed dog , blasphemed , say we , i thinke doctour taylor will not say so , then by his way , blasphemy must be as unjudicable as heresie , and to him the formall of it is within , in the heart . . if matters of fact be punishable according to their proportion and malignancy , then speaking lyes in the name of the lord , and teaching and professing malignant doctrine contrary to the doctrine of godlinesse , that christ thought it no robbery to be equall and consubstantiall to god , that god is one in three persons , and to teach any thing contrary to what god hath said in his word , as that there were not eight persons in the arke with neah , must be punishable , the contrary whereof the doctor saith here : for every breach of a commandement is malignancy and punishable , when it hurteth humane society especially . . can a man be the lesse hereticall , and his society the lesse detestable then , that he thinks his heresie is sound doctrine ? for thoughts cannot change the nature of actions . . to kill a man is indifferent of it self , it may be done in justice , it may be done in injustice , but if a man kill his son , and offer him to god , neither hating , nor envying , nor grudging at the safety of his son , only upon this meer opinion that he expresseth an act of love to god , above that he beareth to his son , as abraham did , then by this way he sinneth not , this son-slaughter is not murther , nor punishable , but a simple errour . for . it may be said by libertines , the act of killing is indifferent of it selfe . . if he hate not his son , and lye not in wait for him , it is no murther , deut. . . deut. . . he is not worthy of death , for as much as he hated him not in times past . nor can killing be called a vertuall hating , or essentially an hatred of our brother , for then it were impossible for a judge to kill a man , and not to hate him : as every breach of the law of god is essentially an hatred of god , and a vertuall hatred of god : for simple killing of our neighbour is not murther by gods reasoning , but killing of him in hatred , rage , anger , or desire of revenge . nor can it be said , that hating , forbidden in murther , by the law of god , includes a loving of him , and a saving of his life ; when it is in our power to save it , as it is in the fathers power , who sacrificeth his innocent son to god , to save his life . answer , i deny not but it is murther , for they teach , that a man may publish that which by consequence , destroyeth the faith of fundamentals , and so subvert the faith of others , which to do is a sin , but because the man followeth the dictment of his erroneous conscience it is no sin to the man that so teacheth , yea , he may innocently suffer persecution for his conscience , thus erroneous , yea , and dye a martyr for it . ergo , if the following of an erroneous conscience , shall make a lesse sin to be no sin but innocency , it shall make a greater sin , to wit , killing of his son to his heavenly father , no sin , and so he may lawfully do it . nor wil it suffice to say , to offer a man to god and kill him , is against the light of nature , and vincibly a sin ; what then ? if the man beleeve he is commanded to kill him , his erroneous conscience must bind , as the offering of whole burnt offerings to god , to us is a sin , against the light of nature , in regard the law of nature can no more warrant it , then it can warrant christ to offer up himself to god. but upon the supposition of libertines , it 's no murther , nor is it punishable at al , because the father may , yea , & lawfully ought to worship god according to the indictment of his conscience , whither the conscience be right , or bloody and erroneous , and yet he is not punishable for blood-shed , by their way for meerly , and simply , without any malignancy or hatred to the child ; he beleeves , he ought to preferre his maker , to his dearest childs life as well as abraham , and the conscience doth naturally , and as under no law , simply beleeve it is the like service , and worship that abraham would have gratefully performed unto god , if god in reward of that love , had not forbidden him againe to kill his sonne . and this answer presupposes also , that it is impossible for a father to have such a conscience , as may stimulate , and command to kill his son , and that in the authority , and name of god , as he erroneously , yea , and as he invincibly holdeth , as socinians , familists , papists , beleeve purgatory , merits , justification by workes , who yet are not to be punished for their conscience , according to libertines . again , there is no intrinsecall malignancy in the act of naticide ▪ or son-sacrificing , but what it hath from the lords law forbiding to kill , now those that killed their sons to molech , yea , to god , as they thought , strongly , yea , invincibly beleeved god commanded them , to do him such bodily service , as is clear from jer. . . jer. . . and that this is invincible ignorance , ( i take the word invincible in the libertines sense ) libertines grant , for in our condemning son-sacrificing , they wil say we are not infallible . yea , the understanding , being spirituall , cannot be restrained , saith dr. taylor sect. . n. . and no man can change his opinion when he will , saith he , ibid n. . and so should not be punished for it , and n. . there is nothing under god almighty , that hath power over the soule of man , so as to command a persuasion . if hee be then perswaded , that he ought to kill his son , he ought unpunishably so to do . lastly , doctor taylor yeelds the cause , when he saith that certaine known idolaters may be punished with death or corporall inflictions . for there is no idolatry so grosse , that strongly deluded consciences may not be carried invincibly ( i speake in the libertine sense ) out of meer conscience , to act . ergo , some are justly punishable for their meer conscience , and yet are not persecuted for conscience . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if a man preach treason ( saith he ) his opinion doth not excuse . if a man preach murther , and preach that christ was an impostor , that the scripture is a fable , how can his opinion excuse in a great sin , and not all sins ? chap. xxviii . divers other arguments for pretended toleration , answered . doctor taylor objects from the arminians , he that persecutes a disagreeing person , doth arm all the world to persecu●● himself , if he say he is no heretick , he is as confidently beleeved to be an heretick , as he beleeves his adversarie to be an heretick ▪ if it be said , every side must take their venture , this is to make the christian world a shambles . ans . . because sound and orthodoxe magistrates punish hereticks , they doe no more arm hereticks against them to punish them , then they arme murtherers to punish them , because no law of conscience teacheth , that a seducer is obliged to publish to others his erroneous opinion , touching mansacrificing , the unlawfulness of magistracie under the new testament , libertie of conscience , familisme , and the 〈◊〉 ▪ for then the law of nature must teach , men are obliged in conscience to sin , and pervert others . . they are obliged to beleeve that their conscience must be a rule to others ; which two the law of nature cannot teach , since it is the just law of god. if yee argue what hereticks doe unjustly , they persecute the sound in the faith , and there is reciprocation of persecution amongst false religions ; its true , the christian world is a shambles , through the corruption of mens nature . but if yee argue what christian orthodox magistrates ought to doe , they ought to punish only hereticks and seducers , but they do not justly 〈◊〉 hereticks , and those of false religions reciprocally against themselves , for by this argument those that are just magistrates , and take away the life of pirates , robbers , 〈◊〉 of other nations , doe they therefore justly arme all pirates and robbers to take away their lives ? i thinke not . obj. . where the christ or his messengers charge the magistrate to establish by his arme of flesh , and 〈…〉 worship of god , the beast indeed gets the power of the earth , rev. . bloodie tenent . answ . kisse the son o rulers psal . . the kings of the earth shall lick the dust before christ , psal . . the kings shall bring their glory to the new ierusalem ; ergo , they shall guard the law of god from violence . . the beast gets the power of kings to bear down truth , but this power of kings shall burn the whore , rev. . . and act for christ and his ordinances . . where reads ▪ mr. williams that christ and his messengers are to charge the magistrate to give libertie to wolves , boares , lions , foxes ? serve your consciences o beasts in wasting the mountain of the lords house , and in not sparing the flock , the nurse-father grants you libertie to waste the mountain of the lord. obj. . artaxerxes knew not the law of god , which he confirmed , how then could be judge it ? . in such fits and pangs of a terrifying conscience , what lawes have nebuchadnezzar , cyrus , darius , arta●erxes , put forth for the israel of god , yet were they not charged with the spirituall crowne of governing the worship of god. answ . that was their error , they knew not the law of god , but it was their dutie , that they ratified it . . those princes did their dutie as magistrates in those laws , no matter what conscience , renewed , or not renewed put them on to act , the duties in the substance of the act were lawfull , the corruption of nature ( they being unrenewed ) might vitiate the work , and put them a working to act lawfully , in the duties . saul as king did fight the battels of the lord , and led his people , and that lawfully according to the substance of the work , but god knowes his motives and end . . this ignorant man never heares of a magistraticall act to promote the worship of god in a civill way , but he dreames of a spirituall tribunall given to the magistrate , which we abhorre as much as he ; for the materiall object of the magistrates power though spirituall , rendreth not his power spirituall , as the magistrate punisheth spirituall confederacie with satan , in magitians , and sorcerers , a witch should not be suffered to live , and sodomie flowing from gods judiciall delivering men up to a reprobate mind , rom. i. . and yet the mastrates power is not spirituall , nor terminated upon the consciences of men . not is this argument of strength , that men cannot be perswaded to cast off opinions of god for feare : for . some must be saved through feare , and pulled out of the fire , jude v. . . augustine answered this argument of donatists , feare of princes laws , . compelleth men to come in and hear truth , and truth perswadeth , epist . . ad vincent . ali● dicant nos fals●s rumor●●● terribam●r 〈◊〉 , qu●● false● esse nesciremus , si non intraremus , nec intrarimus , nisi cogere●●er , gratias domino qui trepidationem nostram flagello abstulit . . fear of civill laws may draw men out of the societie of bewitching seducers , where they are ●ettered with chaines of lies , epist . . ad 〈◊〉 . quid de 〈…〉 confitentur , quod iam olim volebant esse cath●● , 〈…〉 eos habitabant , inter quos id quod v●●ebant esse non pote●●●t per infirmitatem timoris , ubi si unum verb●m pro catholica fide di●●rent , & ipsi , & domus corum funditus ever●●●entur . qu●● est tam ●●ens qui neget , istie 〈◊〉 per ●●ssa 〈…〉 tanto ●uerentur 〈◊〉 , &c. . feare of laws , as augustine saith to the donatist vincentius epist . . hath daunted wild hereticks , qui tamen ad hanc sanitatem non 〈◊〉 , nisi legum istarum , quae tibi displicent , vinculis tanquam ●●netici ligarentur . obj. . artaxerxes gave the people libertie to return to 〈◊〉 own land , assisted them with other favours , and enabled 〈◊〉 to execute laws according to their nationall state : but did god put it in the kings heart to restrain nations from their idolatrie , to constrain them to ferme the worship , build the temple , 〈◊〉 an altar ? answ . ezra . . cyrus 〈◊〉 decree , let the house of the lord be built , &c. ezra . . artaxerxes in his decree faith , whatsoever is commanded by the god of heaven , let it be diligently done for the god of heaven , &c. he restrained men from idolatry , and all disobedience to the law of god. ● . 〈…〉 whosoever will not doe the law of thy god 〈…〉 law of the king , let judgement be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or unto banishment , or unto confiscation of 〈◊〉 , or to imprisonment : ergo , this heathen king by the ●ight of nature , by a civill law established the law of god against idolaters and false prophets , which is all we crave of christian magistrates , and for this cause said ezra , blessed ●e the lord god of our fathers , who hath put such a thing in the heart of the king to beautifie the house of the lord which is at jerusalem . he interposeth the kings law to the law of god , though the law of god borrow no obligatory power or dignitie from the king , and the lord need not the sword of flesh , yet that it may get externall obedience before men , and with the externall man , it is the dutie of artaxerxes and of all kings , to adde their law of death , banishment or confiscation , &c. to the law of god , that such as refuse to doe the law of god , and seduce the people of god with lies and false doctrine may be punished , it was the defect of dutie in these kings that they compelled not the people to return . obj. . for jewes and nations that blaspheme christ must be put to the sword according to the scriptures , exod. . . levit . . . deut. . answ . it followes no way , two things hinder any to execute these laws . . they are not so under us as we have a magistratical power over them , as magistrates have the sword over ill-doers , that are subjected by divine providence to the power . . they are not convicted of blasphemie , nor instructed in the doctrine of the gospel , as they are convicted by the law of nature , that murther , and adulterie deserve punishment . obj. . in all the new testament we find not a prison appointed by jesus christ for an heretick blasphemer . answ . where are the ten commandements set down in the new testament in expresse words of scripture order ? or where speaketh christ or his apostles of prison , sword , gallows , faggot to witches , murtherers , parricides , yea or of so much as rebuking or excommunicating such by their specified sins in particular , more than of blasphemers ? yet doth he rom. . appoint prison and sword for all ill doers , and the same socinians and anabaptists object against all magistracie . obj. . the state and nationall church of the jewes sware a covenant , chron. . that whosoever would not seek the lord god of israel should be put to death whether small or great , whether man or woman . but may whole nations or kingdomes now , ( according to any title expressed by jesus christ to that purpose ( follow that patterne of israel ; and put to death all both men and women , great , and small , that according to the rules of the gospel are not born again , penitent , humble , heavenly , patient , &c. what . hypocrisie brings this ? what a prophanation of the holy name of god bringeth this ? . what masacring of people by civill wars ? answ . . i confesse the swearing of the covenant in israel , and in national churches , may hence be proved to differ . . as touching the externall worship , for their seeking of god , and ours differed , they sought god in circumcision , passeover , sacrifices , feasts , divine ceremonies , but we doe not so , . they sware the covenant , 〈◊〉 . . with blowing of trumpets , cornets , &c. we do not so . . a whole city that maintained a false prophet against the sword of justice , deut. . was destroyed , sacked , their very cattell and every thing in it accursed . wee are not obliged to deaths and punishments , every way thus ceremoniall as they : but as for the substance of the service ; the swearing of an oath , and religious covenants , being of the law of nature , and the punishing of apostates from the doctrine of the gospell , to which they have sworne ( though the gospel it selfe be farre above natures law ) must be from the law of nature lying on us ; we must by the same law be tyed , as they , not to kill all not borne again , i hope the antitipe is here of mr. williams foregoing , not of god , no word of christ , saith that christ chargeth to inflict bodily punishment on men by the sword of the magistrate , because not borne againe . nor do we thinke that by small and great , here are meant sucking children who could not sweare a covenant , for the text restricteth the covenant-breach to such as swear the covenant , and where infants are to be put to the sword by the magistrate in the old testament , as it is like , deut. . , , . and . sam. . . 〈◊〉 they are morally culpable before god , but not that wee should mistake that sort of justice ; no● to kill infants under the new testament for the sin of their parents . we thinke mr. williams arguments weake and anabaptisticall , we should not swear such a covenant 〈◊〉 why ? it were hipocrisie , and a prophaining of gods name : how doth this follow , but that wee must put none to an oath , but such as are regenerate , and wee know wil swear sincerely , and not prophaine the name of god ? none then can bee witnesses under the new testament to sweare , but such as are regenerate , where is this divinity warranted ? or if it be , because the substance of the oath is sin , in that we sweare to put to death the innocent and unrenewed ? we crave a ground for it in the word . but we know no such covenant or oath , but here if toleration of all religions stand , the parliaments of both kingdoms , grievously sin , in that they proclaime not an open liberty to the masse , to jesuits , priests , to set up altars , temples , the whole body of popish worship , and they ought to proclaime liberty to all jewes to come and dwell in britaine , erect synagogues , blaspheme christ , for this is the liberty wherewith christ hath set us free , by libertines way . obj. papists would cut our throats , jewes would destroy us and blaspheme christ . answ . no doubt they would , but libertines do ill that good may come of it , in not acting lawfull liberty for christ , though the firmament should fall , we are not to oppresse consciences , force religion ; abandon the gospell liberty and meeknesse in gaining all to christ in finding truth , &c. obj. henry the leaves england papists . henry brings all to halfe papists , halfe protestants . edward the stirres about the wheele to absolute protestanisme . mary turnes about all againe to popery . elizabeth againe sounds the trumpet , all are protestants , are not we even now making unregenerate men the subject of these nationall changes , by a nationall covenant ? answ . does not this man lay upon the national church of the jewes , a church framed by the wisdome of god , the like revolutions from jehovah to baal , and the golden calves , from baal and the golden calves backe againe to iebovah , according as david , achab , ieroboam , ie●u , afa , hezekiah , manasseh , iosiah , ammon , godly or ungodly kings came to the throne ? and god must so institute and procreat hypocrisie , prophaining of the name of god , domineering over , and compelling consciences then at now , onely subject to the lord of spirits , and his word , by a sword of steele ? whereas now , as then , hypocrits change from religion true or false , and backe againe in a circle , as times blow faire or foule , through the corruption of nature , and this is not to be fathered upon that lawfull punitive power , that god hath given to the christian ruler , to coerce wolves , and seducing teachers , which power , kings whose breasts the church should sucke , often doe abuse , to establish popery , and tyrannize over the conscience of the godly , and undo religion , but both now , and then , sophists may bring a caption , ab accidente , against any lawfull power . what if murtherers , sorcerers , drunkards , abound under unjust and loose princes , and when a just and watchfull prince comes to the throne , men out of hypocrisie return from these sins ? and again , when another unjust king reignes , they return to their vomit , is this against nationall righteousnesse and magistracy ? under all those revolutions christ had a church professing the protestant faith , under gracious kings , and sealing the same faith with their blood under persecuting tirants , so that change was never in the true invisible church , but onely in the scum and outside of the church , and the change came never from the p●●itive lawful power rightly used , but from the hollownes of the hearts of time servers , or some weake men , that denied their master in an hour of temptation , and repented again . by this argument mr. williams wil give us no visible church , but the church of anabaptists , consisting of sinlesse , regenerated , and justified men , who are beyond the courtesie of the law , free grace , and a redeemer , or pardon of 〈◊〉 ▪ obj. an arme of flesh , and 〈◊〉 of steel cannot reach to cut off the darknesse of the mind , the hardnesse and unbeleife of the heart , ( saith mr. williams ) . a woolfe ( saith dr. taylor ) may as well give lawes to the understanding , as bee whose dictates are only propounded in violence , and written in blood , and a dugge in 〈◊〉 capable of a law as a man , if there be no christ in his obedience , no● discourse in his choice , nor reason to satisfie his discourse . aman cannot ( saith the bounder ) beleeve at his own will , how much lesse at anothers ? who can reveale and infuse supernaturall nation and truth but the spirit ? answ . this strongly concludes that the understanding and wil cannot bee forced by the sword , but must move a connatural way , by the indictment of reason , and nothing followes but that the internal and elicite acts of the understanding and will , cannot be produced by external violence which we yeeld , ye say that it involves a contradiction that the elicite acts of the understanding and will , can be produced by external force , but if masters of logicke infer , ergo the magistrate cannot punish a seducer , a false prophet for teaching , what his erroneous conscience dictates to him : then we say this argument is against the holy ghost , not against us ; and blaspheming celsius , lucianus doe &c. object , the like against moses lawes as unjust and bloody , and scripture : for whatever involves a contradiction in the old testament , involves a contradiction in the new , and contra , then gods lawes in deut. . levit. . are contradictions to reason . then god forced the understanding and will in their elicit acts in the old testament as if a wolfe had given lawes , to the conscience of the false prophet , yea , so a dog was as capable of a law as the false prophet , being forced by stoning , both under the old testament , and under the new , ( stons were as hard weapons as steel swords ) to the jewes , as to us . stones were as unable to cut off the darknesse of the mind , and unbeleefe , and hardnesse of heart , of iewes , as a steele sword can prevaile with our hearts . none but the spirit of god could infuse supernaturall notions and truths into the mind , and will of a seducing prophet , among the jewes , more then of an heretick among christians , except libertines think the iewes had no need of the spirit of grace , free will was stronger of old than now . they must say a iew might have beleeved at his will , or not beleeved , and could have commanded his conscience , which we cannot doe . the law of god compelling conscience made hypocrites then , or then forced men to beleeve against their mind , and will , as well as now . carnal weapons then could have produced spirituall repentance , saith , and obedience , but steele hath lost its spirituall vertue now ; but sure though the jews administration was rough , servile , and harder , and ours under christ , milder , sweeter , and easier , gal. . . yet were these laws of moses righteous , but are not made milder , as socinians say , the will and understanding were not then compelled to obedience , but now led with perswasions , and reasons ; but since the creation of the world to this day , the understanding and will , keep ever their naturall way of working . . and that which our saviour calleth the law and the prophets , mat. . . all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them ; was the law of nature , and the morall law , and the doctrine of the prophets in the time of moses , and in the kingdome of the messiah , though libertines put a false glosse on it , for i would not that others should punish me , if i murther , steal , speake lyes in the name of the lord , though if i had authority , i should will to punish others , that are guilty of these crimes , for so they expound it ; now if wee should not will to punish others , for their conscience under the new testament ; neither should the godly magistrate in moses and davids dayes will to punish others for their conscience ; and if we should not will to rebuke and excommunicate hereticks now : neither ought the godly jewes to will to doe the same to others , because of old , men did not will to be punished with the sword , rebuked , or excommunicated for their conscience . . it was no lesse unlawfull for a judge in israel , to domineere and tyrannize over the conscience of a false prophet , a priest of baal , dagon , and to answer the arguments subverting the doctrine of moses law so shining with divinity , majesty , and the wisdome of god , with the bloody sword , and throwing of stones , then it is for the christian magistrate to labour to convert , the false prophet now , by a sword , or an axe domineering over his conscience , so rendring him a lambe , disputing and trembling under the paw of the lion. and whatever arguments libertines draw , for pretended toleration from the law of nature , making punishing for conscience contradictory to the light of nature , must inferre that the judiciall law of moses for punishing false prophets , was not onely beside , but contradictory to the law of nature , which were a wronging of the wisdome of god , and of the perfection of all his laws . nor shall it helpe the matter to say , the law of punishing the false prophet , deut. . &c. was onely to be executed on such a man ; as , . sinned against his conscience , shewing him that to say other gods , beside the god that made the heaven and the earth , were to be adored and worshipped , was repugnant to the light of nature . . and on such as the infallible oracle of god fell and blacked as a heartblasphemer , and to punish such a seducer , was not to compell understanding and will , nor to force the conscience , nor to make stoning , and the sword of steel , the carnall weapons that produce spirituall repentance , because there was foregoing conviction from the light of nature perswading the man , or which might have perswaded him that his blasphemy was against nature ; whereas ye will have the godly punished meerly by the magistrate , because he cannot command his minde and conscience , to be of the magistrates religion , which he judgeth in his conscience , to be a false , superstitious , and idolatrous way ; for this containes many uncertainties and lyes : for death was to be inflicted , not on those onely that sinned against the law of nature , but chron. . . whosoever would not seeke the lord god of israel , was put to death , small or great , man or woman ; now the seeking of the lord god of israel , was to serve him , according to the rule revealed , in the supernaturall , spirituall and holy law of god contained in moses his books . this i judge was some higher , then the law of nature . . let us put libertines to make this good , that those who said , the golden calves , were the gods that brought them out of egypt , and adored them , and were therefore put to death , exod. . ( since our divines prove from the place , that they made those calves memorative objects of jehovah onely ) did that against the light of their conscience , and the manifest law of nature . what if god had made calves and bullocks to represent god , as there were bullocks in the temple , and the sacrificed bullocks were all types of christ , who through the eternall spirit offered himselfe to god ? and what if the lord should command to adore himselfe before those bullocks , as he commanded to pray to him before the arke , and the face toward the temple ? i conceive libertines shall have to doe with the bottome of their wits , to bring arguments from the law of nature , to prove , that every false instituted worship , punished by the sword of old , was against the law of nature , and that the seducers , were convinced in their conscience it was so . . if there was an infallible oracle to backe the false prophet , why was he judged deut. . by the law then ? why must witnesses two or three , depose against him ? why must the people that stone him , or concurre to execute the sentence of death , against a city that will welcome and defend false prophets , know it by report and hear-say● deut. . . and enquire and make search , and aske diligently if the thing be truth and certaine ? v. . what need of exposition of the written law ? deut. . . what need of witnesses ? deut. . . here is shorter worke , and we must be wiser then god , libertines save all the travell , an immediate oracle from heaven is both the judge , witnesse , party , and all , and infallibly saith , this man hath prophesied falsely in the name of the lord , good people rise and stone him , judge , you need no witnesse 〈◊〉 a witnesse from heaven : what needed the priests and pharisees , trouble themselves to seek witnesses against christ ? mr. goodwin and others are of the minde , caiaphas , priest and prophet , could have given a word from heaven , whether he was a blasphemer or not . but a prophet of god being infallible , might have infallibly informed them , if the man were a false prophet . yea but what shall be done when the priest and prophet of god himselfe is called in question ? shall he aske the oracle , whether he himselfe be the false prophet or no ? . this answer layes ground , that the jewes might know the false prophet , and punish him , but under the new testament we cannot know him . but i have proved under the 〈◊〉 testament , we may sufficiently know 〈◊〉 , so as we may try him , not beleeve him , not bid him god 〈…〉 and avoid him , and rebuke and excomm●nicate him , as many libertines grant . . as the jewish judge did not domineere over the conscience , nor compell understanding , and will , because conviction , by a cleare law of god went before ; so say we upon the same ground , we hold none under the new testament to be punished by the sword for false doctrine , but he that is admonished , convicted , and selfe-condemned , tit. . . but your arguments for presbytery , and against toleration , cannot convert us ( say they . ) i answer , nor could pauls arguments that convicted sergius , convict elymas actu secundo , god must doe that , who onely hath the key of the heart ; nor could gospel-arguments that convinced many , that the resurrection was not passed , convince hymeneus , phyletus , alexander , actu secundo . therefore paul might not deliver them to sathan ? nor is excommunication , being a meer punishment , an argument to prove that the resurrection is not passed , any other way their the sword or banishment , both of them are compelling and penall arguments , the one spirituall , the other corporall , but both work co-actively as evills of punishment , and privations of comfort , neither of them give light to this conclusion . the resurrection is not past ; for these two have both alike inconsequences logicall . the church will excommunicate you ; ergo , beleeve not that the resurrection is past . and the christian magistrate will punish you ; ergo , beleeve not that the resurrection is past . there must either be other arguments to sway the conscience to the faith of this , that the resurrection is not past , then either sword or excommunication ; or these cannot worke nor settle the conscience . as christ is risen , in his body , from the dead ; ergo , his members that are sleeping in the dust must rise . god is the god of abraham , who is dead and buried ; ergo , abraham and the dead must rise againe . this i observe , to prove that those arguments of libertines , at least , for the most part , that they bring against punishing of false prophets , with the sword , doe also conclude against all church-censures , and excommunication ; and the truth is , we are not warranted to gaine the jewes , the indians , the papists over-sea to the truth , either by the sword , or by excommunicating and delivering them to sathan , for we cannot judge those that are without . but to returne to all those kinde of argumentations that libertines bring against opinions , from the nature of opinion , faith , perswasion , which are all internall acts of the minde , which neither church nor magistrate can punish ; they are nothing against our conclusion who maintain , that publishing and teaching , and professing of erroneous and false doctrines are punishable by the magistrate , for externall acts that come from meer conscience , as the sacrificing of innocent children to god , by all the arguments we hear are not punishable by the magistrate , for sure the magistrates punishing of unlawful practises coming from meer conscience , do no lesse force the conscience and domineer over it , then when he punisheth erroneous opinions , and therefore the bounder draweth the question to acts , and facts externall , as he saith , the magistrate 〈◊〉 punish polythesme , and atheists , worshipping of images , and of the breaden god , blasphemie , for these ( saith he fight against the light of nature , but if you judge only professed opinions against the light of nature , not against the gospel punishable , because we may by freewill master professed opinions against nature , but we cannot master opinions against the supernaturall truths of the gospel , these require supernaturall grace , then , good masters , why doe you rebuke 〈◊〉 against the gospel , more then you can punish them 〈◊〉 what is of its own nature unrebukeable is unpunishable 〈◊〉 , what is unpunishable , as being above our nature is unrebukeable , and falleth not under exhortation , as we cannot exhort , rebuke , or punish a stone because it descendeth , or fire because it ascendeth . but the papist saith , nay , but they fight not against the light of nature , for to adore christ under the accidents of bread is my conscience ; and indeed doctor taylor saith , you must beleeve it is his conscience , and reallities and pretences are 〈…〉 here , though he contradict himself and in another place say 〈◊〉 some blasphemies are punishable by the magistrate : but libertines are 〈◊〉 of babel , and almost as many heads , so many sundry opinions . mr. willams goes one way , mr. goodwin another , the bounder a third way . john baptist a fourth way , doctor taylor a fift way . the belgick arminians a sixt way . none of them please mr. jeresiah burroughes , nor mr. philip nye , yea and mr. sadr . simpson is as grosse as any of them , so socinians have a way of their own , anabaptists another way , seekers and familists , as saltmarsh a far different way . mr. oliver cromwell calls all religions things of the mind , vaticanus tells us , si deum negent , si blasphemant , si palam de sanct à christianorum doctrinâ maledicunt , ( quo crimine reus est ipse castalio ) si sanctam piorum vitam detestantur , eos ego relinquo magistratibus puniendos , non propter religionem , quam nullam habent , se● propter irreligionem . but the bounder and castalio must be bloodie persecuters by this . for . what the magistrate calleth truth , and godly doctrine , that these men , whom the bounder and castalio call atheists , judge in their conscience to be idolatrie and blasphimie ? and if yee kill a man because he speakes as he thinketh , yee kill him for the truth , for it is truth to speak what ●●● think for the . psalm pronounceth him blessed who speakes 〈◊〉 what is in his heart . but castalio may read righter if he please , and he is blessed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who speaketh truth not falsely from his heart , nor doth the psalmist speak of the doctrine of truth , so as he should blesse mattan and pashur or any false prophet , or the king of assyria , because he saith , no god can deliver out of the hand of that tyrant , but the god of the assyrians , for so i conceive he thinketh , when he relates what false experiences he had of that bastard god ; but he speaks of truth of facts between man and man , psal . . in speaking whereof there may be invincible and so excusable error , whereas men sin grievously in false apprehensions of gods truth , when as god reveals himself sufficiently to us in his works and word ; but thus do libertines leave the first simple apprehensions of the mind because they are naturall , not under the stroak of free-will , free from all law and guiltinesse ; so as the egyptians sin not in apprehending the godhead to be a cow , the persians to be fire , or the sun , israel to be a calfe , the philistines to be a fish ; for certain it is all idolaters who worship the god that made the heavens and the earth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ignorantly , acts . in the creature , or in the works of mens hands , should have by this way no sinfull , nor unlawfull apprehensions of god , when shamefully they apprehend the creator of the world to be a beast . . they must be blessed then and speak truth from their heart , by the exposition that vaticanus putteth upon psal . . who say that god is a cow , a calf , a fish , why ? because their erroneous conscience dictateth so to them . but why should they be punished then who blaspheme , commit idolatry ? for it is the conscience , and the meer conscience of baals priests to speake of god , and worship him as they doe , they had rather dye as not doe that which you call blasphemy ; and . it is not in their will to think what they will. . will yee compell their consciences with the sword , &c. answer your owne arguments libertines . . object . is not this babels confusion to punish corporall or civill offences , with spirituall or church censures , or spirituall offences , with corporall or temporall weapons ? bloody tenet . answ . to inflict bodily punishment for sorcery , makes not the magistrate a church-officer , as he fondly phansieth , all sinnes against god , who is a spirit , or spirituall : and by this reason the church of thyatira , should not censure the fornication of jezabel and her followers ; nor the corinthians the incestuous man with excommunication , which is a corporall offence to speake so , contrary to cor. . whereas all publicke sinnes as sinnes against god , are punished by him , with bodily and spirituall plagues , as it pleaseth him . . these same sinnes as they are scandalls , that offend the church , are punished with church-censures , . these same as they disturbe the peace of the state , doe also deserve to be punished by the sword ; though i take not on me to determine curiously whether the magistrate punisheth sins formally , under the reduplication , as they trouble the peace of the state , or as they dishonour god the highest judge , it may be there is something of both in this reduplication . . these same sinnes are rebuked by private professours , as they are stumbling blocks to them , hos . . . plead with your mother ; neither is it against the nature of perswasion to bee drawne to means of sound beleeving by mens laws , as i observed before from augustine , for feare of punishment may cause men to hear the word of truth which otherwise they would never have heard , epis . ad vincen. . alii dicant , nesciebamus sit esse veritatem , nec eam discere volebamus , sed nos ad eam eognoscendam metus fecit intentos , quo timuimus ne fortè sine ullis rerum aeternarum lucris , damno rerum eternarum feriremur , gratias domino qui negligentiam nostram stimulo terroris , excussit ut saltem soliciti quaereremus , quod securi nunquam nosse curavimus . . object . what if the magistrate in punishing heresie , differ from the church , and strike with the sword , for that which the church thinkes no heresie ? what shall the church doe then ? and what if the church judge that to be heresie , and exhort the magistrate to punish that as heresie , which the magistrate in his conscience , judgeth to be no heresie ? what shall then the magistrate doe ? answ . though there be reciprocation of subordinations , that the magistrate in an ecclesiasticke way be subject to the church power , yet not to an abused church power , and the church in a civill way be subject to the magistrates power , yet not to the magistrates power tyrannically used , but to the power that is from god , and as used for god , and common justice in the one court , and the word of god in the other , is supreme empire & judge that either must follow . . object . did not the people of israel suffer the gentiles to stay in their land , and enjoy their own religion without troubling of them ? answ . it is like they did , but if they did right in tolerating idolatry , for which the land spewed out the inhabitants , is a question . . they might . suffer them till they were first instructed , and then convinced , that religion might not be forced on them . . they could not suffer them in that land to blaspheme the god of israel , lest a common guilt should fall upon all , jos . . , , , , . . since the people were never to partake of other mens sins , they were to argue against them , and rebuke them , and endeavour the gaining of their soules . . ob. the elect cannot finally and totally fall away from grace , and perish , as the scripture saith , joh. . . &c. why then should we be so fondly jealous , lest the people of god should be carried away with every winde of doctrine , as to suppresse each opinion supposed to be erroneous , so as to run the hazard of sileucing the most saving truths , of putting to death gods dearest saints , reducing soules to such a posture , as if we be in ignorance and errour , we must be uncapable of ever comming out of either . answ . a foolish argument without head or foot . . we are to be afraid of every sinne , our lord hath bidden us beware of , though the elect cannot perish , since he that chooseth to the end , chooseth to the meanes , and to both immutably and irrevocably without shadow or change , else this argument will prove , we need not be afraid to whore , murther , oppresse , or the most hainous transgressions , for these sinnes cannot more prejudge the chosen of their state of grace , and certainty of glory , then being carried about with every wind of doctrine , and unsound opinions continued in and published to pervert others , doe argue that we are of the number of those , that are ever learning , and never come to the knowledge of the truth , tim. . . and are unstable and unlearned , perverting the scriptures to our own destruction , pet. . . given over to strong 〈◊〉 to beleeve a lye , thess . . and damned for not beleeving the truth , v. , . the heart not being stablished by grace , heb. . . like children tossed too and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the slight of men , whereby they lye in wait to deceive , not speaking , and not professing the truth in love , that so we may grow up in christ , even in him , in all things , which is 〈…〉 , eph. . , . all which prove that to be finally seduced , is a certaine marke of reprobation , as matth. . , ● . ● tim. . , , . , . and the spirit that teacheth us 〈◊〉 are not to be afraid of falling from the state of grace 〈◊〉 salvation , though we fall in such sins as the spirit of antichrist , and of curst familists , who turne the grace of god into wantonnesse , who abuse the doctrine of election of grace . . he makes god to bring us into an inevitable necessity of either being carried about with every wind of doctrine to beleeve lyes ; or then run the hazard of losing most saving truths , and of putting to death gods most dearest saints . but what warrant hath he , thus to make god the author of sinne ? or to teach that divine providence doth lead us into an inextricable perplexity and necessity of sinning , so that whether we do this , or not doe it , we must sin . . what scripture maketh the beleeving of lyes , a certain hazard of losing most saving truths ? is there no way of comming to the knowledge of the truth , and the sparing of the lives of gods most deare saints , but by beleeving truths which may be lyes , and corrupt doctrine , a word that eateth like a canker ? is there no way to come to gods harbour , but by sayling in the devills boat ? sure this is no way of gods devising , but of sathans forging . . is then cursed toleration a way to spare the bloud of the saints , and not resisting the blessed spirit in them , then we cannot punish hereticks and men of corrupt mindes , but we are in hazard to resist the saints , and kill the spirit in them ; then when the holy ghost forbids us to beleeve false christs , matth. . which is a resisting of their spirit , we know not , but he bids us beleeve the word of truth in gods dearest saints , since for any knowledge we can have , not to beleeve these false christs , it may be they are gods dearest saints , whose words we refuse to beleeve , then in one and the same commandement of christ , which is beleeve them not , he bids us beleeve their word , and resist not the spirit of truth in gods dearest saints , and when tit. . . he forbids us to keep company with an heretick , but avoid him , and joh. . receive not an impostour into your house , he bids us run the hazard of avoyding a saint , and of refusing to lodge in your house gods deare childe . . what if gods dearest saints beleeve and publish an heresie , and the doctrine of familisme , then they are to be pardoned , because they are dear saints . but let libertines answer the query , why should indulgence and toleration be yeelded to a saint that speaks lyes in the name of the lord , more then to a wicked man who also doth prophesie lyes ? if both may fall in the same heresie with the like pertinacy for a time , if we be not respecters of persons , they no lesse deserve both to be punished , then when both commit adultery and murther . . why lying of god and speaking words that eat like a gangrene , and beleeving a lye deserveth rather an indulgence in a saint , then murthering , whoring , oppressing . and why , but we may tolerate all the saints , because they are saints , as well as some sinne no lesse , yea more dangerous , then these that are not to be tolerated , for to infect the flocke with lying doctrine is more hurtfull to the church , then the example of adultery or murther in a saint , if toleration of all wayes , and liberty of professing or publishing whatever tenets or doctrines seem good to a man in his owne eyes , though to the perverting of the faith of many , be a means of finding out many precious truths , as libertines say , then hath god commanded all men to speake all kind of lies , against god , his son christ , heaven , hell , the resurrection , the last judgement , the immortalitie of the soul , though most pernicious to soules ; for god commandeth all meanes of finding out truth , for it cannot be said he commands all lawfull meanes , for libertines hold that to professe and publish what the most erroneous conscience dictates to be the truth of god , though it be black heresie , is to speak the truth as an indweller in the lords holy hill , psal . . so saith vaticanus and all the libertines who make the conscience right or erroneous , the rule of the christian mans walking , not the word of god , and in so doing the lord must by the libertines doctrine command men to speak lies in the name of the lord , and must command hereticks and saints to pervert the soules and the faith of one another , and make one another children of perdition , and not spare the flock , but devour and hunt soules , and so shall the lord command sinne . . how doth non-toleration and libertie of beleeving every spirit seeming to us to be of god , bring men in a posture of uncapabilitie of being delivered from error and ignorance ? the word never maketh a libertie to beleeve lies , a way to be delivered from error . the way to be delivered from error is to be humble and fear god and he shall teach us his waies , psal . . . . joh. . . thes . . , . baptist ibid. god will have the meanes used by every man according to his own light and knowledge that he may be fully perswaded in his own conscience , and no man knowes gods cabinet counsell . ergo , we cannot be competent judges of other mens consciences who are hereticks who not . answ . god will have the meanes used by every man according to his own light . i distinguish according to his own light and conscience , as a necessarie condition that must be in all right judging , it is most true , for he sins grievously who in judging goeth contrary to the inditement of his own conscience , and so god will have the meanes used by every man according to his own light and conscience , as his obliging rule which layeth a law and a tie upon him to beleeve and professe that is most false , for the word of god not every mans conscienceis the obliging rule of his actions as is proved . . the conclusion is most false , for though we are not to judge who are elect and who reprobate , because we are not upon gods cabinet counsell , yet do we not intrude upon gods secrets to judge who is an heretick or a false teacher , or who sound in the faith by his doctrine examined by the law and the testimonie , for how can god say , beware of the false prophet , matth. . . if it were arrogancie and an intruding upon gods cabinet counsel to judge a false prophet by his doctrine to be a false prophet ? how can we avoid an heretick more then a saint , if we may not lawfully judge an heretick to be an heretick ? obj. the holy ghost not only foresaw there would , but determines there must be heresies , and its expedient for the exercise of love , and the discoverie of truth , and the professors thereof ; are not errors as well as afflictions a part of christs discipline ? then let it have its perfect work till it be cured by its proper remedie the sword of the spirit ; it s not said there must be murtherers , as it is said there must be heresies . some seem so to be in love with new opinions as they extoll them , one , a very worthy preacher saith , variety of faces is not an affliction , but matter of much admiration to behold . so varietie of judgements simplie considered is not a grief , but a glorie to me to behold , when one spirit of grace and heavenlinesse is in them all , for i count it a glasse of gods own making wherein to behold his manifold wisedome ? answ . . there is no question but god hath wise and noble ends why he permits heresies , but we no more can orthodoxly say , that god determines heresies , then that god determines that sin must be , for heresies are sins ; now wee say not soundlie , that god determines or decrees sins shall be sine adjecto , he determines to permit sin . . god determines heresies must be , so he determines that murthers , adulteries , oppressions must be : it then shall follow the christian magistrate by this argument does tolerate murthers , oppressions , as he tolerates heresies , but the conclusion is grosse , because heresies are the churches affliction ( and so are bloods and oppressions of the saints ) shall then christian magistrates tolerate all the bloods and oppressions that the saints suffer ? . the apostle saith , heresies must bee , our saviour saith more of offences and sins in generall , matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and luke saith more , chap. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it s needfull scandalls shall come , and its impossible but scandals must fall out , then all the murthers , parricides , sorceries , rapines , for the which christ saith , there is a woe befalling the world , fall out by necessity of a divine working decree , yea the crucifying of the lord of glory came to passe , acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the determinate counsell and foreknowledge of god , acts . . but yet the magistrate is not to tolerate the shedding of innocent blood , and all the offences that fall out in the common-wealth though never so bloodie and atrocious . . varietie of judgements , was no question a grief to paul , when he so pathetically exhorteth the philippians to fulfill his joy , and remove his grief , and to be of one accord , and one mind , phil. . . cor. . . be of one mind , cor. . . i beseech you be joyned together in the same mind , and in the same judgement , heresies no question and errors in matters of god are not free , nor can there be one spirit of grace and heavenlinesse in arrius , apollinaris , nestorius , eutiches , no more then there can be one spirit of grace in sin , nor see we a glasse of gods manifold wisedome in many sundry phantastick opinions teaching god and his son christ , it is a spotted and broken glasse ; and he might say variety of sins are the expressions of gods infinite wisdome , for the scripture calls heresies works of the flesh , doctrines of devils , gangrenes , lies delusions , corruptions of the mind , perverse disputing , deceits , perverse things , dreams of their own heads , false dreams , vain and foolish things , false burdens which cannot be spoken of opinions in philosophy , and so these windmills and midnight fancies being the brats and the dunghill conceptions of mens corrupt head and heart , must be contrary to that wisedome exprest in the word , cor. . . deut. . : psal . . . and they may bee for the declaration of the wisedome of god as for the finall cause , but nothing from the wisedome of god formally , being themselves meer fooles . object . . if the magistrate be above the church and head thereof , and to judge their matters , and if he have his power from the people ( to govern the church ) will it not follow that the people as the people have originally , as men , a power to govern the church to see her doe her dutie , to reform and correct her ? answ . though the magistrate punish false teachers by the sword , he is not for that a church governour , far lesse the head of the church , no more then hee is the head of the church , because he defends them against their persecuting enemies , and by his sword procureth civill peace and protection to their assemblies , persons and estates ; for doing any thing in favour of the church doth not make cyrus , artaxerxes , darius , spiritual officers , and give them a headship over the church . . the christian magistrate having power from the peoples free election to imploy his sword for the external peace of the church , hath not therefore power of governing the church from the people . . because the civill using of the sword for the outward peace of the church , is not a governing of the church , but the civil external and corporal sheilding of them . . it no more followeth that the people as men have the ruling of the church , because they chose a godly magistrate to watch over their external peace ▪ then the people as christians can be said to have a power to preach the word and administer the sacraments or seals of the covenant , because the people as christian men choose ministers who have power from christ to preach & administer the seals , for to chuse a governor to rule over them is no act of government , no more then the wives chusing of the husband to be her head , and govern the family is an act of the headship and governing of the family ; nor doe the people in chusing a king , exercise an act of royall and kingly power over themselves by such an act of chusing ; nor doth an armie in chusing a captain general over themselves , in so doing exercise any act of a captain gerall over themselves . . neither doe the people as men , but as christian men walking by the rule of the word ( which is a catholike directorie to all men and all societies in all morall duties , psal . , , , , . ps . . , ) choose such and such christian rulers who may procure the good of the church and keepe and guard both tables of the law , for the word of god giveth direction to the people , that they should not as men or as heathens choose any sort of rulers , but godly men fearing god , and such kings as read in the book of the law when they sit upon the throne , deut. . c. . , , , , , . exod. . . nor is it true , which vaticanus replyeth to calvin , thefts , rapines , and adulteri●e are punished by the magistrate , not to make up the kingdome of christ , and to justifie men and make them godly as we say , and calvin saith , the magistrate punisheth hereticks . for where doth augustine say that the magistrate punisheth seducers to convert them to god , as if the intrinsecall end of the magistrate were to conquer a spirituall kingdom to christ ? calvin saith the just contrary in that same place , verum quidem esse fateor utque vi armatâ erectum ab initi suisse regnum christi , neque armorum praesidio stare , evangelii enim pradicatione regnare christum oportet . itaque dominus quo illustrior esset vocis sua efficacia , nudes & inormes misit apostolos , nec modo destitui veluit terrenâ potantiâ , sed totum faere mundum habere infestum , ut calestem esse evangelii victoriam omnibus constaret . obj. . but the apostles sought not laws from the emperors , by which hereticks might be compelled to imbrace the sound faith ? answ . gaudentius a donatist bishop objected the same to augustine , and augustine answers , because emperors were enemies to christian religion , therefore christians sought not their helpe . obj. . but the particulars of your directorie of worship are not in scripture , how then can the magistrate punish for not following the directorie ? answ . that there should be prayers , preaching , reading . praising of god , s●craments in the publike worship , is evident by the scripture , but for the ordering of these worships secundum prius & posterius the words of prayer ( so they bee according to the pattern of sound doctrine ) the preface of the directorie is clear , that no man is therein to be compelled , though to transgresse the holy ghosts expresse order in the celebration of the lords supper , and to break bread and eate first , and that before any of the words of institution bee mentioned , or any blessing of the elements , must be a manifest breach of the directory of jesus christ which sure holdeth forth to us a twofold ordering of acts of worship , one divine , which we must p●remptorily follow , another prudential and humane in circumstances which concern both the worship of god and civill assemblies , as time , place , persons , &c. and in the latter we are no further to be commanded in point of uniformitie then the generall rules of the word lead us ; and compulsion , where god hath no compelling commandment going before in an exact uniformitie , we utterly disclaim , nor can men , or church , or all the assemblies on earth make laws in matters of gods worship , where the supream lawgiver hath made none , and the preface of the directorie is so clear in this , that we trust we shall quickly agree with the godly and sound in judgement in this . obj. . but whether were it not better that a patent were granted to monopolize all the corn and cloath , and to have it measured out to us at mens price and pleasure ( which yet were intollerable ) as some men , and synods doe appoint and measure out to us what , and how much we shall beleeve and practice in matters of religion , and whether there be not the same reason that presbyterians and the assembly of divines at westminster , should bee appointed by us ( sectaries ) what they shall beleeve and practise in religion , as for them to do so to us , seeing we can give as good grounds , for what we beleeve and practice , as they can doe for what they would have , if not better ? answ . it were indeed better that all the corn and cloath were monopolized to be measured out at the pleasure of men , then that truth should be monopolized and measured out at the pleasure of men , speaking what pleases them without all warrant of the word of god , and alledge only mens meer authoritie or rather lust , and commanding men without trying the spirits and doctrines by the scriptures , as the bereans tryed pauls doctrine , acts . peremptorily to beleeve and practise , what they appoint under pain of the sword , this sort of monopolizing either corn or truth , our witnesse is in heaven , we detest and refuse ; but of monopolizing and appointing what truth men should beleeve , by an authoritative , ministeriall and officiall holding out of truth in the name of christ , and from the word of truth , in a way of leading the consciences by perswading from strength of light , by the law and the testimonie , and exhorting all men in the lord to try the spirits ; examine by the word , not what men , but the embassadors of christ say and teach , not from themselves , but from the will and commandment of him that sent them , then must they give an account to god , who call this monopolizing of the truth , and measuring it out at the pleasure of men , when as the preaching of the word , being instant in season , & out of season , reproving , rebuking , exhorting with all long-suffering and doctrine , tim. . . should so be a monopolizing of the truth , and a measuring of it out at the pleasure of men , in regard that christ saith matth. . . he that receiveth you , receiveth me , joh. . . and luke . . he that heareth you heareth me , and he that despiseth you , despiseth me , and he that despiseth me , despiseth him that sent me . and matth. . . whosoever shall not receive you , nor hear your words , when ye depart out of the house or citie , shake off the dust off your feet . verily i say unto you , it shall be easier for the land of sodom and gemorrah in the day of judgement then for that citie : which words are spoken of all the faithfull ministers of christ to the end of the world , matth. . , . so they speak according to the commission given them by the lord speaking in his word , whether they declare the mind of christ in a pulpit or synod . this way ministers who hear the word at gods mouth , ezek . . . and deliver the whole councell of god , acts . . and keep nothing back as faithful ambassadors and stewards ought ministerially to declare and appoint what , and how much , we shall beleeve and practise in matters of religion , but not as monopolizers . . suppose sectaries could teach the ministers of the assemblie , as well as the ministers can teach them , yet is there more reason that ministers should synodically teach then they ; for a teaching ministery is an ordinance of christ in the new testament , as is clear by these places which hold forth that christ is present with his faithfull ministers to the end of the world , joh. . , . matth. . . eph. . , , . and tim. . . . compared with matth. . . . eph. . , , , matth. . . v. . luke . . joh. . . tim. . , , , , . rom. . , , . hebr. . . and . . tit. . , . thes . . , . rev. . , . &c. and . , , &c. and howbeit the word of god as the word doth equally tye the conscience in regard of that objective obligation that it hath from god , not from men , who ever spake it , whether ministers or private christians , yet it layeth two bands on the conscience when ministers declare the will of god to people , the one is officiall , for by the fift commandement , the messengers of the lord of hosts are to be heard , reverenced , and received in their calling , otherwise we despise christ : the other is an objective obligation and a band which it layeth on the conscience , by the second commandment in regard it is the word of god not of men , thes . . . but when private christians speak the word of the lord in their station , the word from them layeth on only the latter obligation , not the former ; and it is false , that private men have as good grounds to appoint what ministers should beleeve and practise , as ministers have to appoint what they should beleeve and practice ; for private christians want the ministeriall grounds which ministers called of god have , to teach and exhort in the name of the lord. it may be private men may see more truth then ministers , when night and darknesse , in stead of vision , covereth the prophets , but hence it followeth not , that seeing and called watchmen should not ministerially appoint and hold forth by their office , what private christians should beleeve and pr●ctice in matters of religion . . libertines aim at this , the truth is monopolized to no one man , nor certain kind of men , ministers or others . what then ? ergo , it is truth what every man in his conscience beleeveth to be truth , and he that beleeveth & practiseth what in conscience he beleeveth to be truth , he beleeveth and practiseth according to the word of god , and is not to be controlled nor contradicted , nor compelled by sword or censures , for let it be most false in it self , yet it is to him truth , and if you persecute him , he suffereth for the truth , for the gospel , for righteousnes sake , and the ministers have no more to doe to labour to recall and gain him from his opinions to the truth , then he hath to labour to gain ministers from their opinion . hence i argue , what ever opinion maketh every man● dictate of his conscience the true word of god , and as many bibles , divers and contrary gospels and words of god , and contrary rules of faith and practises , as there be divers opinions , fancies , dictates , and apprehensions of conscience , is a godlesse and atheisticall way . but such is this opinion of libertie of conscience and toleration , ergo , &c. the proposition is undoubtedly true , there being but one gospel , one faith , one truth , as there is but one christ , and one lord , ephes . ▪ . and the scripture hath but one sense , that is true , and the ground of faith , otherwise this ( there is but one god to us ) should have one sense to the treit●ites , to wit , there be three gods , because three persons , it should have a contrary sense to another : to us there is but one god in nature and essence , and yet both should be the same truth to each man , as he apprehends . the ass●mption is manifest to those that will see , by the grounds of libertines , because to every man , that is the word of god which he phansieth to be the word of god ; for otherwise , the truth should be monopolized to ●ut , or some few persons , and this is the sense of the word of god , and so the very gospel and truth which this man beleeveth , and of you punish him for it , the man suffers for the 〈◊〉 for the word of god ; and if his neighbour beleeve the contrary , that is to him the word of god , and if you punish him for it , the man suffers for the word of god also , and there bee two contrary gospels , and sundry truths , and if there be two , there may be two and twentie bibles , and contrary truths , and so we have not the old , and new testament , but the letters of it , and as many senses , by this , there be of scriptures , as many bibles , and as many sundry heads and various opinions of men . hence libertie of prophecying is lawfull , and so libertie of faiths , of contrary bibles ; and from this it is , that which tendeth to unitie of faith , as one confession of faith , or uniformitie of beleef is mocked by these men , and every one that suffereth for his supposed truth , is persecuted for the word of god , and so blessed , because persecuted for the truth , and if blessed , as our saviour meaneth , matth. ● . v. , . they have a great reward in heaven , for so they expound the place , matth. . , . all men then , are saved in their own religion , and to be rooted and grounded in the truth , is common to all sect● and hereticks , and i● is to bee rooted and grounded in op●●ions such as every man shall fansie to be truth , and not to be moved from the truth , is not to bee moved from opinions , and not to be carried about with every winde of doctrine , is to adhere with pertinacie to opinions were it arrianisme , manichisme , and if so , all religions are alike safe , and all sects , saints , and all hereticks because they follow their erronious consciences are innocent , godly , grounded on truth . neither needeth mr. williams to prove that the place rom. . is meant of the duties , not of the first , but of the second table of the law , which we grant with calvin and beza ; but it followeth not , that the magistrates punishing of ill-doers , and so of seducing teachers , is excluded , for that punishing is a dutie of the second table of the law , though the object be spirituall , as sorcerie is against the first commandment , and punished as ill doing , rom. . though sorcerie be a sinne formally against the first table of the law , and why should the magistrate punish one sin against the first table , and not all , in so far , as they are against the peace , and safetie of humane societies ? finis . errata . page . line . read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . l. . them r. these . p. . l. . but of all these r. but all these . p. . l. . r. elicite acts . p. . l. . and it is false that we are to beleeve , that what synods determine according to the word of god must be fallible , lyable to error and an untruth , because they so determine . p. . in margin r. thus , the magistrate may with the sword coerce . ibid. five impediments that keep men from embracing the truth according to augustine . l. . for guidentum r. gaudentium . p. . l. . cyrillus . p. . l. penult . for worships r. vorstius . p. . for elect r. elicite . p. . l. . for or r. are . p. . l. . for this not r. this is not . p. . l. . for now r. not . p. . in margin , for i●dicari r. judicare . p. . r. religio . p. . l. . for is r. are . p. . l. . for thou r. that . p. . l. . for is r. it s . for●●ssed ●●ssed r. professe . p. . l. . for abolish r. oblige . p. . l. . for and father r. and the father . p. . in margin r. confuta●unt p. . l. for quod nou in r. quod non est . p. . marg . for no case r. in case p. ● . l. penult . r. impletionem . p. . l. . r. redarguit . p. . l. . r. protesta●ts , f●●ilists , arminians , seekers , &c. hold and beleeve must be the dictates . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gal. . . notes for div a -e the name , con●●●ence . conscience the practical knowledge . conscience a power , not an act or habit . 〈…〉 thomas . ● . a●t . . casetan . ibid. richard . . ● . . ar . . grego . de valent. . q. . punct . . vasqu . z. . disp . c. . tannet . tom . di●p . . q. dub● . what sort of knowledge is ascribed to the conscience . of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . of conscience in relation to the major assumption and conclusion of a practicall syllogisme . the object of conscience . hamond of conscience . pag. . sect. . conscience to be revere●ced . 〈…〉 of cons●●●nce , and the acts 〈…〉 . of witnessing of conscience and selfe-reflection . the knowledge of our own state of grace may be had by the fruits of the spirit of sanctification . ●olion . serm. an pag. . . &c. acts of conscience in relation to the conclusion . a conscience good or ill . a good conscience . conscience the ●arest peece that god made . a tender conscience . amesius de consci . l. . c. ● . n. . conscientiae huic malae , vel cordi diero opponit●● conscientia tenera , quae facilè afficitur verbe dei. reg. . . ut in josia . who ingrosse the name of tender consciences to themselves . of a scrupulous conscience . the causes of a scrupulous conscience . notes for div a -e how a synod compelleth . ● . remons● . apo. c. . sect . . the conditions that libertines require to be in a synod . liberty to question every thing is lycence . remonst . apo. c. . fol. . the church though not infallible may determine infallible points . apol. in pref. et in declar . in pref. a confession , covenant or synodicall de 〈◊〉 a secondarie rule of faith . remonstr . in vindic . l. . c. . fol. . note . ibid . a ministeriall and publike , and a christian and private judgment and faith , and how they differ remov . . 〈…〉 〈…〉 that confessions ought to be onely in expresse scriture words is another false principle of libertines . roman . vindi . l. . c. . . . 〈◊〉 post quam acceptavit decretum , 〈◊〉 illo ●●●tius quam ea lege , quatenis & quamdia 〈◊〉 in 〈…〉 indicat ill deff●●●rum . ancient bonds of liberty of conscience . 〈◊〉 apol c. . . the end of synods is not to remove heresie , by any means good or bad 〈◊〉 to ciuil heresie so effectually as these heresies shall never be heard of in the world againe . remon . c. . apol. . the necessitie of synods . pastors subject the disobedient to wrath yet are not lords over the conscience , ergo neither are synods lords over the conscience for that . fol. ● . error of conscience 〈◊〉 from ●●igation of obedience . apo. . f. . the subject of a synod not a sceptick conjecturall truth as libertines suppose . the sense of scripture from synods beleived truly to be infallible , though synods consist of men who are not infallible , as an earthen pitcher doth contain gold and precious rubies and saphires in it , though there be no gold in the matter of the pitcher but onely clay . . cor. . . how a true decision of a synod is ever the same and not retractable . remon . though all truths be peremptorily decyded in the word , yet is there need of a ministeriall and declarative decision of men , because teachers may deceive , and these that are taught are ignorant and dull . anabaptist : dim●ed interpretation of scriptures as 〈…〉 〈…〉 . anabaptist . l . c. . da●●aut anabaptistis scripturiram ●●terpretati●rem , recitari evangelium debere 〈◊〉 , verbi a 〈◊〉 , ut cuique liberium sit prosuo spritu hoc est prosua voluntate & ●●●dine interpreta●i . 〈◊〉 non esse verbum dei. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈…〉 . men are to come to synods not as nullifidians but as ingaged for truth . synods may impose upon others and how . ancient bonds or libertie of conscience stated . c. . sect. . p. . . the conditional imposing of synods consisteth well with trying of all things what libertines say on the contrary is nought . 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 notes for div a -e . . pastors are are not out of their calling nor apparitours nor tale-bearers if they complaine to the magistrate of hereticks and all ev●●-doers . notes for div a -e opinions cannot be compelled not the 〈◊〉 or will in the 〈…〉 ●he question is whether the 〈…〉 . shame and fear of reb●kes by pastors and church censures have the same compulsorie in 〈…〉 false teachers that the feare of publick punishment by the synod hath . church censures are as compuls●rie on the conscience , as coercing by the sword . some externall actions of unjustice s●●wing from meere conscience , are punished justly without any note of persecution , by grant of libertines , and why not all others also ? 〈…〉 bonds pag. lactan. inst . l. . c quid 〈…〉 quod 〈…〉 fieri 〈◊〉 libido 〈…〉 . tertullian ad scapul●● . humani juris & natural●s potestatis est , un●cuique quod putavertis coler● : n●● alii prodost●nt o●est alterius religio sed : nec religionis est cogere religionem , quae s●ont● 〈◊〉 debe● , non 〈◊〉 how religion may be compelled , how not . one mans religion remaining in the minde and will may hurt or benefit the man himself , not any others : but true religion as it comes forth i● to acts of teaching may coine and winne the souls of others , and false religion may subvert the faith of others . the magistrate does not command religion , acts as service to god , but rather forbids their contra●●●● as disser●●●● to christian societies . how ●ertull . and la●●ant●●s are to be expounded of forcing to heathen religion . though we can compell none to religion it follows not that the magistrate may not punish there that 〈◊〉 others to a false religion . lactan●● . . c. . non est opus vt & 〈…〉 cogi non potest , 〈◊〉 potius quam verberibu● res agenda 〈…〉 distringant ( hostes religionis christianae ) aci●m ingeniorum suert●● , si ratio corum vera est offeratur : parati sumus audire , si docea●● . tacentibus certè nihil credimus , sicut ne saevientibus quidem cedimus , imitentur nos , aut rationem rei totius exponant nos enim non illicimus ( ut ipsi objectant ) sed docemus , probamus ostendimus : itaque nemo a nobis retinetur invitus : imutilis est enim deo qui devotione ac side caret , & tamen nemo discedit ipsa veritate retinante . lactan 〈◊〉 . longè diversa sunt carnificina & pictas , nes potest aut veritas eum vi , aut justitia eum crudelitate conjungi . ibid. sed ut in ipsa religione sic defensionis genere falluntur . defendenda e●im religio est non occidendo , sed monen lo ; alij codices moriendo , non sevitia , sed patientia , non scelere , sed fide . lactant. speaks of compulsion without all teaching . these that are without the church are not to be compelled . 〈…〉 〈…〉 punish he●●●ides , so . so he should not punish murtherers . the magistrate may by the sword curb five impediments that keep men from embracing the truth , according to augustine . answer to doctour adam stewart . impotencie of free will objected by mr. john goodwine no reason why the magistrate ought not to punish seducing teachers , as of old the donatists objected . state of the question more strictly proposed . it may as wel he said , because there be no expresse laws against murtherers , parricids , sorcerers . sodomites in the new testament more then against false teachers , that therefore socerers are no lesse then hereticks to be tollerated . notes for div a -e de vivendis christianorian animus in fide illibata . tom . l. . c. . the number of fundamentals . an saving disposition of faith to beleeve all truths revealed , though the man be ignorant of many may consist with the state of saving grace . calv. epist . ad martinum shallingium an . . three things among these that are to be believed , things simply necessarie . . simply profitable . . by consequence necessary : how the papist , erre in these . joan. durens in consulta . theologica p. , . some consequences necessary . builders of hay and stubble on the foundation may be saved , and these that fall in murther and adultery out of infirmity may be also saved , yet there is no consequence ; ergo the magistrate should tollerate both . notes for div a -e obstinacie in ceremonies after full information deserveth punishment . these that err in non-fundamentals may deserve to be punished . to teach the necessity of circumcision not an error formally and primarily ; but by consequence fundamentall and the contrary truth not necessarie necessitate medij . the tolleration of all who err in non fundamentals examined . m. iohn goodwin hag●omastix sect . . pag. . queries proposed to mr. joh. goodwin , who asserteth a catholicke toleration of all religions , upon the ground of weaknesse , of free-will , and want of grace . 〈…〉 augus . 〈◊〉 dicu , relinqu●s liber● orbatrio , cur enim non in homicidiis & in stupris , & in quibuscunque 〈◊〉 facinorib●● & flagiciis libere arbitrio dimittendum to esse proclamas ? quae tamen omnia justis leg ib●● comprim● utilissimuma ●●ahiberrimu● est , dedit quidem de●● homini liberani 〈◊〉 sed nec bonam infruct : ●osam , nec malam voluit esse impunitam , li. . con. gaudenti c. . secundum est as fallatissimas vanissim●sque rationes , haberis laxatis atque dimissis , humana licentia impu●●sta pe●cata omnia relinquentur , 〈…〉 most arguments of libertines infer a catholicke toleration in non-fundamentals , as wel as 〈◊〉 fundamentals . what deductions the spirit makes in the soule of an elect , knowing but a few f●●dam , and going out of this life , thou knoweth ? to know revealed truths of god , is a commanded worship of god. one generall confession of faith , without a particular sense containing the true and orthodox meaning of the word , not sufficient . divers pious conferences betweene us and lutherans . they hate god , and love blasphemies in the consequence , who obstinately hold them in the antecedent they may bee false teachers , and so punishable , who erre not in fundamentals . divine right of church-government . tim. . . tim. . , . tim. . , , . job . , tim. . , . cor. . act. . act. . , , , . &c. divers things not fundamentally believed with certainty of faith . rom. in a 〈◊〉 . f. fides millinaria potest esse omnium pessima . beleeving of truths revealed of god with a reserve blasphemous , and concerning beleevers in scepticks and 〈◊〉 , beleev●ng w●th a reserve ●gainst the motion of the holy ghost beleeving with a reserve against the stability of faith . against the trying of all things , and spirits , injoyned by the holy ghost . faith with a reserve against our prayers for knowledge , and growing therein . the holy ghost bids us not beleeve with a reserve . to beleeve with a reserve contrary to our doing and suffering for truth in faith . two distinctions necessary touching controverted points . some things of their own nature not controversall , yet the deductions from them to our blinde nature , are controversall . fundamentalls of faith most controversall to our blinde nature . notes for div a -e some far off errors may bee tollerated . schisme and actuall gathering of churches out of churches cannot be tollerated . the place ro. . willing us to receive the weake , no plea for tolleration . the place philip. . . let us walke according to the same rule , &c. nothing 〈◊〉 tolleration . notes for div a -e remonstrant i● apologia p. . p. . 〈◊〉 & tu●a heresis 〈…〉 ●rr●r qui in merte errantis ta●●um l●cum habet ●rrer nec objectum nec causa punitionis est , error enim merus erra●tem non egreditur , ergo 〈◊〉 necoer●●ri quidem potest ▪ animus hominis imprio humano non 〈…〉 humane 〈…〉 apo. ● ● . ● liberti●es m●ke heresie a meere innocent and unpunishable error of the minde . heresie is a sin as well as idolatry , though we could neither desine heresie nor idolatry . heresie proved to be an hainous sin . remonstrance apol. . f. remon . apol. . f. . min●s celsus 〈◊〉 heretic . coer . se● . ● . f. , , , . the holy ghost contrary to libertines , supposeth unden●●●bly that hereticks are knowne , and so they are not knowne to god only , when 〈◊〉 b●ds us beware of them , avoid them , bid them not god sp●●d . pertinacie may be , & is known to men . libertines openly contradict the holy ghost in that they forbid to judge false teachers to bee grievous wolves . remonst . apol. c. . de ma●i●ioso volu●tatis actu 〈◊〉 pertina●ia que est formalis ratione h●resees 〈◊〉 nisi so●us ●o●e judicari potest humana omni● judicia de mente animoque alterius incerta sunt , conjectura fallaces nisi cum quis quod malum esse novit , facere vult nemo dedita opera erras , aut errare se sibi p●rswadet cum de ●terna salute agitur , quare fas non est invito alicui tribuere malitiam : caritas aliud swades . heresie a wicked resisting of the truth , and yet not the blasphemy against the holy ghost . liberti●es say that an hereticke dying for his heresie , hath no evill conscience , but a spirituall and heavenly end . tundite , tundita an●x●rchi follem anax●rchum enim non tundit . celsus ibid. the vain glory and malice of the devills martyrs who dye for heresie . fol. . spirituall stupidity and malice both together in hereticks and sathans martyrs . some ignorance consists with the sinne against the holy ghost . notes for div a -e re●●●n , apol . c. . , . ve lelius de ar●●n . ar●ini . p . l. . c. . n. , who is an to arminians titus . . nevi te esse primo genitum satauae . none to libertines are hereticks , but such as professe a religion which they with perswasion beleeve to be false . liberty of prophesying taken in a threefold sense the words quench not the spirit , vindicated from speaking for liberty of prophesying any thing remon . apol. c. . fo. , spiritum ne extinguite , id est , spirituales verbi dei sensus quos quis se habere a spiritu dei , id est , vel per inspirationem & suggestionem spiritus vel anxiliante spiritu dei sibi persuadet , quo sensu vocem spiritus videntur ipsi apostoli aliquando accipere , thes . . . . ioh. . . qua quam alio sensu accipi potest . r●mon ap to desire false prophets to cease out of the land , is no quenching of the spirit . remon . apo. . notes for div a -e remon . . how the arminian libertines do define an heretick . heretickes to libertines only such as deny things knowable by the light of nature diversity of opinions among them . the punishing of men forpublishing of fundamental errors and the indulgence of a toleration yeelded to them though they teach all errors in non-fundamentals a vain distinction and hath no ground in scripture . some murthers non-fundamentall ●n david , which yet are consistent with the state , salvation should as wel be tolerated as some errours in non-fundamentals , by the distinction of libertines . some non-fundamentals clearely in the 〈◊〉 revealed not to be beleeved with a reserve , and others non-fundamentals with 〈◊〉 . queries propounded to libertines . why may not the magistrate lawfully spare the life of him who out of a libertine conscience meerly sacrificeth his childe to god● or why should ●e punish with the sword some acts not destructive to peace in the con●cience of the punished , and not a● acts of the same ki●d . to compell men to do against their conscience , that is to sin neither in old or new test-lawfull . deut . deut. . ●pan● 〈◊〉 . apo c. . f. . there is the same obligation , the same formall reason ( so saith the lord ) of beleeving non-fundamentals revealed , and fundamentals , and the same necessity of divine command not the same necessity of means called , necessitas med●● . notes for div a -e bloody tenet c p. . r●monst . apo c. . nam v●rbu● dei etiamsi vin obligandi ex se & p●rse habeat , actu t●●en non obligat quenquam nisi intellectum & sic pr●ut adhibi●a omni possibili diligentia & prudentia ●●nclligendum esse creditur , re●no enim obligatur , ad verum v●rbi divini sensu ● sequ●dum contra conscientiam suam erro●●am . the state of the question touching the obligation that conscience layeth on us . tanner . jesuit● to . in . disp . . q . dub . . n. . lib. de paradiso opinio nostra nobis legem in ponit . ph● . gammacheu . in . q. . de act● . hum . c. . sect . . malderus q. . a●t , ● . dis . . ancient bonds of liberty of conscience , se . . c. . p. . though the magistrate punish false teachers it followeth not that he compels them to sinne against their conscience . augustin contr . gau●e●ti● n , l. ● c. . et si ficti aliq ●i persever●●● , non utique ●●op er ipsos 〈◊〉 fucra●t colligendi quos viden●●s ver●●e● . gods way and manner of calling , is no ground why the magistrate should not punish false teachers . ancient bonds of liberty of conscience , s . c. . p. . who is the self condemned heretick , tit. . . 〈…〉 sect . ● . . . r●monst . vi . di . l. . c. . ut heresis naturae potius quam vitium vo untatis sit . l. . c. . err●ces istos sola parit natura per nullam ipsoram culpam destituta gratia , non voluntas auxilium gratia aspernata seducuntur non sponte sua sed naturae necessitate seducunt enim non quia seducere volunt , sed quia non possunt non seducere . notes for div a -e toleration hath no warrant in the word . toleration infer●eth scepticisme . want of infallibility in the new testament , no reason for the toleration in the testament . apolo . n●trar . p. . toleration is against faith , 〈…〉 in the scriptures . toleration is against the ministery of the word . rulers by the fourth command are to see all under them worship god. proposals of the army under sir tho. fairfax . p notes for div a -e rulers , as rulers , not as tipicall rulers punished false teachers with the sword . typicalnesse did not priviledge all the kings of judah and israel to compell the conscience , and punish false teachers , as libertines say . how typicalnesse priviledgeth men to such and such actions , how not . seducers punished by bodily death . punishing of idolators and blasphemers of the law of nature . how wars that are extraordinary in the manner , and in some particular acts may be and are in the substance of the acts ordinary rules oblieg●ng us . the law of god warranted by the law teacheth that false teachers and hereticks are to be punished with the sword . the law deut. . , . for punishing of idolaters . there was no consulting with the or●cle who should be put to death for his conscience in the old testament , but an ordinary way of trying such evill do●rs by judicial proceeding and hearing of witnesses . the end of punishing of false teachers with the sword is not their conversion to god ( ministeis of the gospell onely labour in that field ) but the not perverting of soules and disturbing the safety of humain societies . sacrificing of children to molech punished with death by god● law , not as murther but as spiritual whordome . notes for div a -e laws punishing false teachers were morall , not temporary and pedagogicall ▪ power of fathers and masters in the ●ourth command coercive . compelling to hypocrisie for feare of shame and reproaches , as guilty as compelling men w●●h the sword not to publish heresies , nor seduce others . 〈…〉 . blasphemers and idolaters never were judged to dye , by consulting with the immediate oracle of god , as joh. goodwin imagineth hagiomast●x . sect. , , , . we have as 〈◊〉 a wo●● , the scripture , as immediate consulting with the oracle of god. want of infallibility should exclude all judges to judg , ●ast●rs to preach on write , synods to advise because we cannot doe these with propheticall infallibility . a twofold typicalnesse in the old testament ; one meerly ceremoniall , unreducible ; another typicall , but of civill and naturall use , the use of the latter ceaseth not , because it was sometime typicall , so is punishing of seducers . answ . . seducers of old denied no otherwise god then our false prophets now ●●ayes doe now deny h●m not only those who ●ffend against the principles of nature but those that publish and hold errors against the supernaturall principles of the gospell , are to be punished by the sword . such as slew their children to molech , denied no more the word of god then our hereticks now doe . there be false prophets now under the new testament as there were under the old testament . notes for div a -e 〈◊〉 not expresse rebukin● , of the magistrates , tolerating of heresies makes not for christs ap●●oing of toleration of heresies more then of tolerating , the absolving of a murtherer at the time of the feast , or other crimes against the second table . answ . . the lawes , deut. ● . three in number explicated , the first two were morall , the third ceremoniall for the most part . the wars in the old testament warrant wars in the new , according to the naturall equity in them , but they binde not according to the ceremoniall & temporary typicalnesse annexed to them . notes for div a -e the prophesies in the old testament , especially that zach. . , , , , , ▪ prove that false teachers under the new testament , ought to be punished with the sword so john goodwin answereth in his appendix to hagimastix . the prophecie zach. . & the house of david noteth not the iewes only excluding the gentiles . master goodwins answer to zach. . answer of mr. goodwin . it is not metaphoricall thrusting through that is spoken of zach. . but really inflicted death an●bod●ly punishment . chytaeus in zach . . 〈◊〉 doctores 〈…〉 ut asa propr●●m ma●re● removit a cu●●u ad●●orum . ●ead , propter 〈◊〉 idolorum * esa . . . esa . . . ps . . . ps . . . . ps . . . es . . . pro. . . rev. . . 〈…〉 notes for div a -e so 〈◊〉 . goodwin , hagiomastick . the ignorance of the christian magistrate in matters of religion , no ground why by his office hee ought not to know so farre truth and falshood as to punish heresies , published and spread . ordinary professors may know who are hereticks and false teachers . magistrates as magistrates cannot judge all evill do●●s , for heathen magistrates who never heard the gospel cannot judge gospel-hereticks . how christ taketh service of a christian magistrate . mr . ●o . goodwin . how m. goodwin would elude the place , rom. . to prove that false teachers are not evill doers paul rom. . speakes of magistrats in general what they ought to be not of roman magistrates as they were then . roman well-doing , and ill-doing , not meant in this text . notes for div a -e the pla●● tim. . , . explained . we are to pray that magistrates as magistrates , may not only permit , but procure to us that we may live in godlinesse . rev. the ten kings as kings punish the where , and burne her flesh for her idolatry . extraordinary punishing of hereticks , no case of the magistrates neglect , argueth that the magistrate ought to punish them . notes for div a -e this liberty of conscience is not christian liberty . a speculative conscience no more freed from the magistrate then a practicall conscience . ecclesiasticall censures as compulsory as the sword . notes for div a -e remonstrantes apo. . fol. . no● d●●●●teor parabolam hanc ( de zizani●s ) de beretici , non directe agere . the scope of the pa●●ble of the tares , and the vindication thereof . the danger of punishing the innocent in due of the guilty through mistak is no argument that hereticks should not be punished by the magistrate . the tares are not meant of hereticks but of al the wicked who shall be burnt with unquenchable fire calvinus in math. . non quemlibet rig●rem cessare sub●● christus , sed 〈…〉 . the parable of the tares , and of the sower most distinct parables in matter , and scope . let them grow not exponed by christ and what it mean●●h . what is understood by tares . heresie may be knowne . what is meant by plucking up what is meant by the field , what by the wheat . all the tithes of the parable must be not expounded , nor the time exactly searched into , when the tares were first sowne . how sins are more hainous under the new testament , & how god 〈◊〉 now no lesse s●v● 〈◊〉 under the ●aw , and a city that will defend and protect a false prophet against justice , is to be dealt with , the same wayes as under the old testament , except that the typ●calnesse is removed . what ( let them grow ) imports . how we are to beare permissive providences wherein evills of sin fall out . christ must mean by tares and wheat , persons , not doctrines , good and ill minus celsus . whether false teachers if they repent must be spared , or because they may repent . minus celsus ●o . . zizania , tr●●ico non nocent sed prosunt . augustin , omnis 〈◊〉 , au●dco 〈◊〉 ut corrigatur , aut , ut per eum bonus ex●erceatur . notes for div a -e min●● celsus de hereticcus ●ocrecudis . remonstrantes be●g●ci . apol. c. . p. . the not burning of the samaritans doth prove nothing for the immunity of hereticks from the sword . how s●re wee may compell other nations or ●eathen to imbrace the true faith . of the covenants obliging of us to the religious observance thereof . ancient bonds c. . sect . . p. . . the word of god as it is in every mans conscience no rule of reformation in the covenant . the ●quivocation of sectaries in swearing the covenant . ancient bonds p. . the author of the antient bonds an ignorant prevoricator in the covenant . al moral compel●ing of hereticks , and refuting of false●teachers by the wo●d , 〈◊〉 as unlawfull as c●●p●l●ion ●y the sw●rd , according to the principles of libertines . p. ● . . the magistrate is the magistrate cannot send ministers but 〈◊〉 a compl●sory way . p. 〈…〉 how independents were insnared by presbyterians to take the covenant as the lying author saith . pag. , . how independents sware to defend the presbyterian government , & with tong●● , pen , sword , cry out at it , as tyrannicall , antichristian , and popish . libertines make conscience , not the word of god their rule . so remo●strantes in vindici●s apol. l. . c. . , . nominem , post quam acceptavit decretum , ( this author , post quam accepta●it ●uramentum ) ten●ri illo diutius ▪ quam ea ●●ge qua●enus & qu●ndin ipse i● co 〈◊〉 sua judica illud esse ●erum . how appearing to the conscience makes not the word of god to be the obliging rule , but onely as touching the right and due manner of being obliged thereby . notes for div a -e returne to the commiss . of the gen. assemb . of scotland , an . . p. . returne of the parliament of england to the com. p. ● . anno . the pretended liberty is contrary to the nationall covenant petition to the king , inviting him to returne to his parliam . d●●laration from the paul. 〈◊〉 to the state of scotland by mr . ●ickri● . petition to the king , . 〈◊〉 . . declaration of the kingdome of scotland when they came into england in their second expedition to joyne in the cause for religion and the covenant . treaty betweene england and scotland . ordinance of both houses . die lunae . septem . appoved by the assembly of divines at westmin . ▪ septem . . mr. phillip nye his exhortation before he read the covenant which was taken by the parliament of england , and assembly a●no . dec● . . at margarets church . mr . nye p. . returne from the parliament of england to the commission . of the generall assembly anno . ordinance of lords and commons an . . feb. . ordinance of parlam . . feb. . the declaration of both kingdomes an no. . p. . p. , , , declaration to the gen. assembly aug. . letters of the assembly of divines and commissioners of the church of scotland , to the belgik , french , helvetian and other reformed churches , an . . we indeavour ( making the word our rule ) the nearest conformity to the best reformed churches and u●iformity in all the churches of the three kingdomes . decla . after the battle of kenton . remon . of the parl. decla . of the parliament of scotland , ● . nov parliaments decla . given by their commissio ▪ aug. . commission . papers to the convention of states in scotland . ord. of parl. , j●n . sal●m . spark of glory p. . . , . del ser . before the house of commons , p. , . . . ordin . octo. . ordina . march . . and an ord. aug. . ordinance of parl. march , . ordinance of parl. . nov. . propositions of peace sent to the king to newcastle an . july . and now again sep. ordinan . feb . . ordinance . feb. . ordinance . ma● . declaration of the house of commons . april . declaration of both kingdoms . returne to the commiss . of the gen. assem p. . declaration after the battle at kenton . declaration of both kingdomes an . returne from the parl. to the privy councel of scotland , . confession of faith , c. . s . . c. . s . . notes for div a -e mr. goodwins unsound glosse touching the counsell of gamaliel , acts . calvin censures both gamaliel and iohn goodwin commen . in acts . . caeterum si quis omnino rite expendat , indigna est homine prudente sententia ( gamalielis ) scio q●●dem a multis haberi pro oraculo sc . eos ( anabaptistas ) perp●ram judicare vel hinc satis clarè pate● , quod hoc modo abstinendum esse ab omnibus paenis nec amplius ullum maleficium corrigendum , verè quidem dicitur non posse ullis consilus dissolvi quod ex deo est ; quod autem ex hominibus minus fi●mum esse quam ut consistat , sed hinc perperam colligitur , cessandum , potius videndum quid deus nobis mandet . vult autem maleficia a nobis coerceri , in hunc finem instituit magistratus eosque gl●dio armavit , rom. . piscator , nam 〈…〉 ●●ones humano consilio & audacia 〈…〉 d●sso●v untur ●●men 〈◊〉 magistratus est operum dare ut alas conpescant , & prohibean , & hujusmodi novatores pro merito puniant . * gualther dubius & ambigus in sermone apparet , longe igitur alia illorum magistratuum ratio est qui v●ritates vera cognitione illuminati , illam ex officio tueri , & errores extirpare debent . vaticanus , citeth bullinger , a contrary to calvin in gamaliels arguing , but both commend the moderation of gamaliel . ●ut bullinger saith , adversus , anab. lib. . c. . nil adeo iniquum & injustum de quo dici non potest si ex deo , perficietur , si non ex deo sponte cessabit . gamaliels argument proves as strongly that murtherers and adulterers should not be punished , as that men ought not to bee punished for their conscience . the argument of gamaliel owned by adversaries readers all the fundamentalls of the gospell uncertain , and topick sc●pticisme to all the most well settled beleev●rs . gamaliels argument doth co●clu●● that w● are not to oppose ●y arguments and scriptur● , a●y blasphemous way agai●●t the gospe● . imme●iate 〈…〉 is 〈◊〉 the rule of our actions . notes for div a -e the 〈…〉 burning 〈…〉 from 〈…〉 . lu. . 〈…〉 ambro●●us 〈…〉 tibi clement●● ad 〈…〉 samaritani a quibus 〈…〉 crediderunt . hieronimus in locu . ut apostolicus sermo haberet efficientiam voluntatis est domini ; nisi enim ille jussetit frustra dicunt apostoli , ut ignis discenda● . the case of elias calling for fire from heaven , and of the apostles , luk. . much different . swarez com . de virt . theo. disp . . sect . ● . nu . . iohn baptist , or a necessity for liberty of conscience , c. ● . p. . n. . bloody tenet , c. . p. , . m. s. on iohn goodwin to . p. . antient bounds . p. . the meeknesse of christ being extended to publicans , extortioners , and harlots , doth as well conclude , such ought not to be punished by the magistrate , as that false teachers ought not to be punished by him . by places from the meeknesse of christ socinians labour to prove the magistrate is to shed ●o blood under the new testament , s●cinius defens . verae sent . de magist . polit . adver . jac. pal. bar . . so . . . sed negant ( raccovienses ) cum qui christianus effe velit , humanum sanguinem fundere posse , sive privatus sit , sive magistratum gerat par . . fo . . christianus judex in sententia ferenda , christianae aequitatis & clementiae non est obliturus . ostorodi●s inst . rol. c. . praecepta christi ( elementissimi ) non permittunt ulli homini ad amore vitam . ●malcius contra frantz dis . de ●on-oper . nec christus praecepit homicidas morte plectere , disp . de reb . c v. semper ( magistratus ) habenda est ratio legum chri●ti . catech raccoviensis de proph . mun. chi. c. fo . som● . defen . vet . sent . de magist . poht. li. . fo . . smaltius disp : dereb : eiv d. stewart his part in answ . to m. goodwin p. . censur . professores leidenst . . sec . ult . p. . christs not breaking the bruised reed , would prove that hereticks are gracious persons , though weak in saving grace , and lovingly ch ●rrished by christ , if the place is . mat. . , . helpe the adversaries . christs meeknes● not ince●sistent with his ju●tice . rash judgement condemned , cor. . . is nothing for pretended tollera●●on . that many through the corruption of their own heart render hipocriticall obedience , because of the sword , proveth nothing against the use of the sword , to coerce false teachers . antient bounds c. . p. . matters of religion ought to be inacted by the law of princes and christian rulers , that such as contravene may be punished . lawes of rulers in matters of religion , do only finde the outward man. c. &c. . & p. ● , . the false teacher is to be sent to the church and pastors thereof , that he may be convinced before he be punished . notes for div a -e how iudiciall lawes oblige to puni●●ment . profess . l●id . in syn●p . pair . theo. disp . . gamachaeus in . q. . c. . iudiciall lawes were deduced from the morall law. thomas , . q. . art . . swarez de legib . p. . c. . n. . epiphanius de heres . augustinus de haeres . . irenaeus , l . c. . augus . de her . . soto de insi●t . & jurae l. c. . aquinas ▪ q. . ar . . medina . q. . ar . . q . ar . . valentia . dis . . q punc . . gamacheus . . c. . conink de acti supe●n dis . . dub . . no. . true causes of war with other nations . m●sius cornelius a lapide . abulensis in josh . cajeta●us in josh . c. v. ● . swarez de v●r . theo. disp . . sect . . n. . gam●chaeus in , q. ●o de infid . q. . augustinus q ● . in num & in john q two kingdoms , becom●ing 〈…〉 a re●igious co●●nant if it be 〈◊〉 , the one part may ave●ge the quarrell of the 〈◊〉 on the oth●r in case of br●●ch the new altar 〈◊〉 by the tribes ●●● the halfe 〈◊〉 jordan josh . . how 〈…〉 cause of war. calvin comment . in josh . non dubium quin sancto zelo excanduerint , non omnibus quidam da●as gl●dius in manum sed pro su● quisque vocatione & officio viriliter & constanter asserere studet purum religionis statum contra omnes corruptelas . calvin ratiocinantur a minore ad majus . piscator in cor. english divines annot . on josh . . diodatie on ios . . genev● notes . dutch annotations . vat●b●us an . in josh . . cajetan com . in josh . . cornelius a lapide com . in josh . . venerunt ut dimicarent contra ●os quasi . apostatas & schismaticos . vide hic z●●um omnes enim duodecem . tribus faciebant unam rempublicam unamque ecclesiam . tostatus com . . in josh . c. . q. . necessitas autem pugnandi contra duas tribus incumbebat . lex deut. . id jubebat . consilium autem est de contingentibus de modo . hugo cardinal . com . in josh . . masius in iosh . in loc . se●rar . in loc . nicho. de lyra . menochius anno● ▪ in iosh . . v. . fer●s in declama . in iosh . c. ●● . utinam talis zelus in nobis esset & quidem non unum altare erectum videmus sed innumera . swarez de vir . the dis . . sect . . augus . epist . . ad donatistas . constantinus prior contra partem donati severissimam legem dedit , hanc imitati filii ejus talia praeceperunt quibus succedens iulianus deser●or christi & inimicus supplicantibus vestris rogatiano & pontio libertatem perditionis partis donati permisit , denique ●eddidit basilicas hereticis , quando templum daemoniis eo modo putans christianum nomen posse perire de terris , si unitati ecclesiae , de qua lapsus fuerat , invideret , & sacrilegas diffensiones liberas esse permittere● : deinde valentinianus , legite quae contra vos jufferit ▪ inde gratianus , & theodosius legite quando vultis quae de vobis constituerint , quid ergo de filiis theodosi● miramini , quasi allud de hac causa sequi debuerint quam constantini judicium per tot christianos imperatores ●●●issi●● custoditum . christian princes lawes against errors and ●●resies . eusebius in vita co●stan . c. , . & l. c. . ruffinus hist●r . p. . c. . iovian . l. . c. . nicephor . l. . c. . ruffinus , c. . , . nicephor , l. . c. . socrates , l. . ● . . theodo●us anagnostes collect . l. . the unconstancy of timotheus coton bishop of constantinople , of petr. mongus bishop of alexandria . evagr●●l . . c . pic●s mirandula in apoloq . q. . nemo sanae mentis ita opinatur . vt alio modo opinari posset , quia ita vult opinare . edictum valentiniani & martiani lex . quicunque cod. de heret . ultimo supplicio coerecantur qui illicita docere tentaverin● . pametius c. . de diversis religionibus non admittendis . augustinus , epis . . ad boni●●● occidunt animas affligantur in tempore , senipeternas mortes faciunt , & temporales se perpeti conqueruntur . august . contra epist . parmen●ani . c. . m ▪ actinius de domin●s de r●p . eccles . l. . c. . augustin . con . crescom . gra. l. . c. . desid & operib . . epist . ad marc●●●●a . epist . . as constantine g●ve out severe l●ws against d●natists , so did iulianus the apostate restore temples to heretickes , and granted liberty of conscience to them , that so he might destroy the name and religion of christians , as is before observed . so augustin . ep● . ad donatistas . god only determineth punishments for sinne . the punishing of a seducing prophet is moral . to punish the seducing teacher is an act of justice morally obliging men ever , and every where . false teachers in seducing others , apprehend th●● hand of divine vengeance pursuing them ; as other ill doers do ; and so it must be naturall iustice in the magistrate to punish them . the punishing of false prophets , is of the law of nature . idolatry is to be punished by the judge , and that by the testimony of job c. . who was obliged to observe no judicial law but only the law morall and the law of nature . english divines ●n . on job . ver . . pagninus in verbo . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mercerus ibid. lxx . chaldaica paraphras . hieronimus h●eron . transl . iob . v. . hieron . trans . exod . . biblia parisien● . & complutens . lxx . syraica versio samaritan . vatab. iob . iunius iob . piscator ibid. pineda com . in iob . . sanctius in iob . v. ● . ier. taylor libertie of prophecying sect . p. , spalato de rep. f●cles . l . c. . which booke is wanting in the ordinary coppies . tay●ors liberty of prophecying sect . p. . how the fathers deny the sword is to bee used against men for their conscience . taylor liberty of prophecying sect . . p. . church cens●res and rebukes for conscience inferi●● most of all the absurdities that libertines imp●e to us . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spernere conten●●●re . that there was an immediate response of gods oracle telling who was the false teacher , is an unwarranted forgery of libertines . if heresie bee innocency , seducing hereticks ought to be praised and rewarded . liberty of prophecying . the magistrate as a magistrate according to prophecies in the old testament is to punish seducers . bloody tenet c. . p. . what master williams giveth to the magistrate in religion is not sufficient . christian kings are no more nurse-fathers isai . . . to the true churches of christ , then to the synagogue of antichrist according to the way of libertines . the mind of divers famous authors touching the parable of the tares . mr. williams mis-interpreteth the parable of the tares . guli●l . paris●ensts on the parable of the tares . let them grow till harvest , because tares may become wheat , but that is uncertain , but it is certain that wheat may become tares , then let them grow till harvest to destroy the people of god , is as if one should say , let a few wolves continually eat and devoure the flock , because god happily shall make these wolves sheep and lambs , and let some few● burning torches devour and consume the wood , because god may make these fruitfull trees , and let some few lepers , who continually infect most contagiously remain among whole people , because god may save them . calvin advers . servetum if the words of the parable be precisely pressed , all magistrates must be interdicted of the use of the sword , ch●ker in parenes . the par●ble speaketh not of ●udges . ●eza nor none of the fathers ever said that hereticks should not be judged till the last day , chrysos● . hom . . on matth. d●ssipate the assemblies of hereticks but kill them not . jaco . acontius by the wheat are meant the godly , by the tares the ungodly , if both godly and ungodly must be ●●●ered to grow , all magistracie and authoritie of discipline should be abolished . jacobus simanca . tares are all wicked men , then no wicked men must be punished , most absurd . ga●acheus . if reall danger be imminent , the church and the christian magistrate must abstain from discipline , and the parable saith 〈…〉 so suarez . tannerus , least ye pluck up & c. ●ee gives a just and adequate reason of the permitting of evill . azorius , by tares hereticks are not understood acco●ding to the mind of chrysost . augustine , hierom● euthymius , theophylact . the parable of the tares considered . mr. williams holdeth that the prince oweth protection to all idolatrous and bloodie churches , if they be his subjects . how the magistrate is to judge of heresie . a magistrate and a christian magistrate are to be d●fferenced , nor can or ought all magistrates to judge of , or punish all hereticks . bloody tenet , cap. . p. , . whether peace of civill societies be sure , where there is toleration of all religions , and what peace christians can have in toleration . peace is commanded in the new testament , no word of toleration of divers religions , which are the seminaries of discords between the seed of the woman and the serpents seed , in all the new testament , is to be found by precept , promise , or practice , nor any ground of repealing judiciall lawes , for puni●hing seducing teachers . libertines give us heathenish , not christians peace under many religions . notes for div a -e remonst . apo. c. . p. remonst . apo. c. . p. ● . bullinge● adver . anabap. l. . c. bloudy tenet . c. . p. , . ancient bounds scripturall persecution is only for truth . asser . there is a tongue persecuting by rebukes , which is condemned by libertines in matters of religion , as well as handpersecution . opeatus mel. vitan . l. . episcopos gladio linguae jugulastis , fundentes sanguinen non corporis , sed honoris . bullinger adver anabap. l. . ● . augus . epist . magis ancilla p●rsequebitur satam superbi●n●o , qu●m ●llam sa●a co●●cendo , illa enim dominae faciebat injuriam , ista imponeb●t superb●ae discipli●m . augus . petitiano , l. . c. . noli diccre absit , absit ●conscientia nostra , ut ad nostram fidē aliq●em compellamus , facitis enim , ubi potestis , ubi autem non facitis , non p●●testis , sive legum sive 〈◊〉 timore , sive res●entium mu●●t●d ne . so were marcis presbyter victoriensis , and mareitius urgensis , per●ecuted by donatists , augus . epist . 〈◊〉 . carwright joh . on tit. . . amesius de conscien . l. . c. . an haeretici ●nt ● civil● magistratu puniendi . q. . re. r●primendos esse haereticos abomnibus plit . 〈◊〉 rom . . tim. . . n. . si vero etiam manifeste blasphemisint , & in illis blasphemus pertinaces ac praefracti , p●ssint etiam affici supplicio capitali , lex enim illa , levit. . . . quamvis non obligit christianos quatenus est lex , quatenus tamen est doctrina a deop ofecta pertinet ad christianorum directionem in ejusdem generis causis ; joannes clopenbur●●● in gangrena anabaptis . tripa● . histor . l. . c. . bullinger . l. . c. . c. . petition of famil●●● to k james an . they commend king james in counselling pr. henry to punish putitan non-conformists , and plead for liberty to themselves see survey of the spirituall antichrist , pag. . apolog. remon . bloudy tenet . c. . p. . libertines ought no● to suffer death for any truth . mimus celsus sect. fo. . mimus celsus denieth the coercing of seducers upon socinian principles . citech racco v●d : proph . mu. . c. c. . socinus in praelec . c. . com , in joh. fo . . prae●er theol. c . f. . ostorodi●s inst . chris relig. c. . c. . c. . c &c. smalcius de divi● c c . f. . contra smig●●c c. f. . volkelius . episcopius dis . de●es●l c arm deleg & evan com . the. . ancient bonds of liberty , reas . , . the lords patience towards sinners in the old testament was no argument of not coercing false prophets in that o●d testament , as the author of ancient bonds &c. supposeth . acontius de steatagematis satanae , l. . p. . 〈…〉 . hope of gaining blasphemers no more ground of sparing their life , then hope of gaining murtherers can be pretended as a ground why they should not be punished . whether to be persecuted for conscience true or false , be a proper note of the tru● church as iob. baptist , saith , cap. . necessi●y of toleration , quar. . see osterodius iustit . rel . c. . f. . smalcius praefat . re●at , frant . soci● . praelect . theol. c. . smalcius refut . lib. de satisfact . christi c. & lib , de offic . christi . jesus christus est primus ac solus praeco hujus doctrinae ac multo perfectio is quam ea quae ante christum , in popul● d●i fuit . p●liander in concertat . socinian . disp . . thes . , , . peltiush●rmon . socin . & remonst . art . . art . . volke●ius in verbis christi illis testimoni●s ( inquit ) exod. ● . . lev. . . deut . ●am legis mon●em fuisse comprobatur , ut ultio ac vindicta fuisse permiss● sta●uatur , mod● per magistratum , non autem propti● authoritate fieret . cui quid em legi christus sua verba opponens , omnem non modo privatam , sed etiam publicam vindictam abrogat , suisque praecipit ut omnes perpessiones quae alterius maxi●●ae obversione significantur , omnemque bonorum jacturam , quae pallii dimissione innu●tur , omnem denique molestiam , quae coactione ad unum milliare designatur , ita ferant , ut similem denuo injuriam subeant , potius quam illat●m , ●ive per se , five per magistratum ulciscantur . there be no new commandements of christ to love our enemies in the new testament , which were not commanded in the old , as joh. baptist saith c. . they that suffer for heresie and killing their children to molech by baptists way , so they preserve conscience , suffer for well-doing , and according to the will of god in the apostle peters sense joh. baptist preface to the reader , and c. . necessity of toleration by samuel richardson , an . . quer. . q. . and pag. , . ancient bounds p. , , . we judge not that hereticks seeming to be hereticks should be punished , but those that are hereticks indeed ought onely to be punished . joh. baptist condemns . notes for div a -e joh. baptist ▪ c. . ancient bounds reas . . p. . storming of the antichrist . c . p. . joh. goodwin . h●giomas . baptist falsely chargeth on us that we teach a man should beleeve whether his conscience say so or not , and should doe and pray without the spirit of adoption , and that for these foregoing merits of congruity god will give us faith ▪ which doctine we detest . ancient bounds preaching of the word without the spirit is as unable to work faith as the sword , and the argument from our impotencle to beleeve , is as strong against the one as against the other . the sword hath strength against only the outward m●n to cause him to abstain from seducing of souls , not against the conscience . argument . it s a false principle of toleration , none are punishable for heresie because heresie is to god only knowable , and to no mortal man. goodwins sermon theomachia . acts . . saltmarsh sparkles of glory , preface . the heretick is knowable by the scriptures . impotency of beleeving , being naturall in the old testament , as in the new , it was to the jews as good a ple● against the lords law to punish seducers as to us . reasons against forced and unwilling obedience . against forced abstinence from murther , particide , at al times in the old and new testament , do contend against gods laws of punishing seducing teachers . bloudy tenet , c. . p. . the magistrate commandeth the outward man , and yet commandeth not sin and carnall repentance how the magistrate commandeth obedience to the law of god ; to wit , in reference onely to externall peace and the halfe and outside of obedience , and yet not hypocriticall in its kind . del sermon before the house of commons , p. , . epistle to the two daughters of warwick . s . ▪ . del serm p. . theol. germa . c. . , . rise & reign er . , . er . . bulli●ger adversus anab. l. . c. . & l. . c. . calv instruct . adversus liber . c. . p. . towns assert . of grace , p. , , . s a'm●rsh free grace , , . bam. gortyn . simplicities defence p. . . ancientbounds c. . reas . . because man may abstaine from heresie and seducing , upon false grounds to wi● , the magistrates commandment and not from conscience ; it follows no more that the magistrate hath no power so to command , then that the pastor hath no power so to preach . argument . the libertinisme of toleration is grounded upon the pretended obscurity of the scriptures . the main pillar and ground of toleration , makes the scripture a nose of waxe , and puts on it a hundred senses , and makes it a rule of faith to all the false religions , of jew , papist , indian , american , who receive the letters of it . mr iohn goodwin hagiomast . sect . . p , denieth that any now living on earth hath the scriptures , or any ground of faith , but that which is made of mens credit and learning . though the meanes of delivering to us scripture be fallible , yet it neither followeth that these meanes are the foundation , on which our faith is resolved , or that the scripture it self is not infallible . tannerus disp . . de fide , c. . as . bellarm. l. . de concil . c. . stapl●ton doctrin . princip . l. . c. . ultima resolutio fidei non est in deum revelantem simpliciter , sed in deum revelantem ut sic , id est per ecclesiam &c. val. dis . . de fide q. . p. . sect . p. . col . . card. de lugo de side , spe , dis . sect . . n. . malderus de object fidei q. . art . sect . . p. . suarez de fid . disp . . de object . forma fidei sect . pag. . dis . . dub . . concl . lod. maratius tom . . tract . de fide dis . iect . . n. . duvilliusde object fidei l. . q. . lit●e . d. fr. silvius professor , duace●sis m. q. . art . lod cas●ensis capucinus curis . theol. tom post tract . . dis . s . . reasons to prove that we have divine certaintie , that the books of the old and new testament that we now have , are the word of god , contrary to mr goodwins assertion , that we have no warrant so to say , but mans credit and authority . as matth. . . matth. . , , . matth. . . matth. . . matth. . . mark. . . mark. . . luke . . luke . . . . luke . . luke . . joh. . . . joh. . . act. . . act. . act. . . act. . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . cor. . . ● cor. . . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . . rom. . . rom. . . cor. . . gal. . . . gal. . . . heb. . . pet. . . luke . . rom. . . cor. . . cor . . luke . . joh. . . rivet to . . contra . tract . . whitaker to . . de authoritate scrip. l. . c. . calvin comment in act. . hagiomast . ser. . p. . dr. taylors liberty of prophesying , sect. . p. , , &c. liberty of prophesie , sect. . p. . the knowledge of god is commanded , and the minde is under a divine law , as well as the will and the affections . the trying of the two missals of gregory and ambrose by a miracle was meer folly . liber . of prophe . sect. . p. , . the causes of heresie . all ignorance of things revealed in the word though most speculatively , are sinfull errours . the place cor. . , , . expounded and vindicated from the glosses of adversaries . dr. taylors mistake of heresie . what vinciblenesse must be in heresie . dr. taylor maketh the opinion of purgatory no heresie , and groundlesly . of errours how they are sinfull in matters revealed in gods word . liber . of proph sect. . n. . liber . of proph n. . n. . simple errours of things revealed in gods word are condemning sins . ob. . sect. . how opinions are judicable and punishable . for the father to kill the son , upon a meer religious ground , is no murther , nor punishable by libertines way notes for div a -e sect. . n. . bloodie tenet , c. . p. , . the magistrates ministry is civill , not spirituall . bloodie tenet , . . the laws of artaxerxes cyrus , darius , nebuchadnezzar , ratifying the law of god by civil punishments were their magistraticall duties . how fear of civill lawes may work men to soundnesse in the faith . bloodie tenet , page . artaxerxes made lawes by the light of nature , to restrain men from idolatry . bloody tenet , c. . p. . from punishing of false teachers it followeth not that the jewes and all the idolatrous heathen should be killed . bloodie tenet , c. . p. . bloody tenet , cap. . the considerable differences between punishing such as rebell against the first tables of the law in the old testament , and now in the new , and their swearing of a covenant and ours . obj. . bloody ten. c. ● p . circular turnings from protestanisme to popery proves nothing against punishing of seducers . obj . bloody ten. c. . p. . dr. taylor liber . of pro. sect. n. . ancient bounds c. . . p. sect . . the objection of a carnall way by swords as no fit means to suppresse heresie answered . the objection from carnall weapons , and forcing of conscience , and contradictions involved , inforcing the elicit & ●n●ernall acts of will and understanding &c. as strong against laws in the old testament as in the new. the law deu. . lev. &c. was not executed upon such onely , is sinned against the light of his conscience , and the law of nature , and upon whom the immediate response of the oracle fell , as false prophets . no need of a law-processe , judge , witnesses accusers , or inquiring in the written law of god , if an immediate oracle from heaven , designed the false prophet in the old testament . ecclesiasticall and civill coaction , do both worke alike upon understanding and will. ancient bonds , c. . page . errors against supernaturall truth are not rebukeable , because not punishable , & contra . vatica●us contra libel . calvin ●n . . vaticanus co● . libel . calvi ad not . so si interficis qua sic loquitur ut sentit intersieis propter veritatem : ●am veritas est dicere quae senrits & psal . . beatum pronunciat eum , qui vere dicit quae habet in animo . libertines make all blasphemers , all seducing prophets of baa● . & priests of heathen gods , if they speak● what a conscience 〈◊〉 with a 〈◊〉 iron doth 〈◊〉 unto them , to be true prophets , and to dwell 〈◊〉 them 〈◊〉 of the lords house , 〈◊〉 . . bloudy tenco c. . p. . in four sundry considerations sins are censured . augus epis . ad vincen the magistrate is subject to the just power of the church and the church to the just power of the magistrate ; neither of them to abused power , and the word of god in point of conscience supreme to regulate both how the jews suffered heathen idolaters to dwell amongst them . baptist c. . p. ● . . joh. baptist would have us selfe selfe carefull of being carried 〈◊〉 with false and strange doctrines , because we are elected to glory , and the chosen cannot fall away , then of other abominable sins . joh. baptist and libertines teach that liberty of conscience is a way to finde out truth . when the holy ghost forbids us to beleeve false christs , and to receive antichristian teachers into our houses , he bids us also receive them as saints and beleeve them , by the way of libertines . libertines make the judging of hereticks , to be hereticks , a bold intruding into the lords ca●●net counsell . ancient bounds , cap. . sect . . reas . p. . bloodie tenet . mr. nicholas lo●k●er , ser . . col. . preface to the reader . liber●ines say , god hath de●●red heresies to be . varietie of judgements in gods mat●e●s is a grief to paul and the godly ministers . gal. . . tim. . , . tim. . . thes . . . tim. . . rev. . . acts . . ier. . . zach. . . lam. . . necessitie of toleration , . qu. . borrowed from bloodie tenet . the punishing of heresies investeth not the magistrate in a headship over the church . the intrinsecal end of the magistrate or of his office is not the conversion of souls . august . lib. . cont . perm . cap. to quis enim tune in christum crediderat imperator qui ei pro pietate contra impietatem leges ferendo servitet quando adhuc illud propheticum esset , quare fremue●un● gentes , &c. libertines make preaching and commanding to receive and beleeve , and professe the truth , a monopolizing of the truth . a twofold obligation the word spoken or preached lay on the hearers , one objective , another ministeriall . private men have not the like warrant to prescribe what ministers should beleeve and practice , as ministers have to prescribe to private men . argum . libertie of conscience maketh every mans conscience his bible and multiplies bibles and sundry words of god , and rules of faith . all hereticks are in a safe way of salvation , according to the way of libertines . the duke of buckingham his grace's letter to the unknown author of a paper, entituled, a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration and liberty of conscience letter to the unknown author of a paper, entituled, a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration, and liberty of conscience buckingham, george villiers, duke of, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the duke of buckingham his grace's letter to the unknown author of a paper, entituled, a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration and liberty of conscience letter to the unknown author of a paper, entituled, a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration, and liberty of conscience buckingham, george villiers, duke of, - . p. printed for j.l. for luke meredith ..., london : . caption title. imprint from colophon. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng short answer to his grace the d. of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration, and liberty of conscience. liberty of conscience -- early works to . freedom of religion -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the duke of buckingham his grace's letter , to the unknown author of a paper , entituled , a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham 's paper , concerning religion , toleration , and liberty of conscience . my nameless , angry , harmless , humble servant ; i have twice read over , with a great deal of patience , a paper of yours which you call an answer to a discourse of mine ; and , to my confusion , must own , that i am not able to comprehend what part of my discourse it is you do answer ; nor in all yours , what it is you mean : but in this you are even with me ; for i perceive you do as little understand any part of what i have written , though i thought it had been in so plain a stile , that a child of six years old , might very well have done it . yet i do not take ill from you this art you have of misunderstanding plain things , since you have done the same in his majesty's promise to the church of england . the true meaning of which , ( without this misunderstanding art of yours ) would easily have appeared to be , that he would not suffer any body to injure the church of england , but he did not promise , that he would have the church of england persecute every body else . having confessed , that i cannot understand your writing ; you ought not to be offended at me , if i cannot remember it neither . and yet there is one passage in it which i shall never forget ; because it does in a most extraordinary manner delight me : it is this shrewd convincing argument of yours , which you say , had you been to treat with atheists , you would have urged to them ; that it is impossible , this world should be eternal , because then it must also be invisible . it is , i swear , a refined , quaint kind of notion ; which ( to do you justice ) i do verily believe , is entirely your own : yet for all this i cannot be absolutely convinced , that i am now the same george duke of buckingham , which i was forty years ago : and to shew you i am in earnest , i do here promise you , that if you will do for me a favor less difficult , which is , to make me the same george duke of buckingham i was but twenty years ago , i will ( as poor a man as i am ) give you a thousand guinneys for your pains ; and that is somewhat more , i am afraid , than you will ever get by your writing . you have done me the honour to call your self my humble servant , and therefore in gratitude , i shall offer you an advice , which i am confident , upon second thoughts , you will not find to be altogether unreasonable : that hereafter , before you take upon you to write french , you will be pleased to learn the language : for the word opinionatrê , which you are so infinitely charmed with in your paper , has the misfortune to be no french word : the true french word , which i suppose you would have used , is opiniatreté ; and yet i protest , i do not see how ( though you had written it right ) it would have much more graced your discourse , than if it had been expressed in english. stick therefore to your english metaphors , at which you are admirable ; and be always careful of not turning ( according to your own words ) the wine of hopes , into the vinegar of despair ; and then you cannot fail of being sufficiently applauded by every body , as you are by your grateful friend , buckingham . finis . london , printed by j. l. for luke meredith , at the king's head at the west end of st. paul's church-yard , . the history of conformity, or, a proof of the mischief of impositions from the experience of more than years collinges, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the history of conformity, or, a proof of the mischief of impositions from the experience of more than years collinges, john, - . [ ], , [i.e. ] p. printed by a. maxwell and r. roberts, london : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england -- history. dissenters, religious -- history. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the history of conformity : or a proof of the mischief of impositions , from the experience of more than one hundred years . london : printed by a. maxwell , and r. roberts , . to the reader by way of introduction . christian reader ! what was in a great measure proved before the committee of parliament in the year , that london was burned by the treachery of papists , and hath withal been suspected a long time by our wise and discerning patriots , that a plot was by them laid to subvert the government of the nation , and introduce the popish religion , hath been so fully proved by a variety of evidence before the greatest courts of judicature in england , since the first discovery of the late hellish plot , and that with this advantage ( to convince us of the villany and danger of that party ) , that they had upon it grafted a design for the hastening of the other to assassinate his most sacred majesty , and several eminent peers , and by a popish army to massacre all protestants , as none can deny it with any degree of modesty . and if any had any inclinations to it , the murther of sir edmondbury godfrey , and assassination of mr. arnold , the manifold lyes , perjuries , subornations , which have been proved against them , the device of the meal-tub plot , &c. to spoil the credit of the manifold proofs against them , have been such convictions as none hath been able to outface , unless such as have dreamed of a liberty , yea and a merit too , for , and in doing any thing for the reputation of the catholick church , as they nickname the synagogue of rome . it is as evident that the design of the popish faction was to have cast the odium of these actions upon the protestants . the odium of sir edmondbury godfreys death should have been cast upon debauches of that religion , had it not been unluckily discovered that he was murthered within the walls of sommerset house . but that of the kings death ( could they have effected it ) should have been thrown on the presbyterians , ( a name under which of late they have comprehended all dissenters . ) this should have engaged our credulous and furious men to have helped them to have destroyed the dissenters , while they should have got their catholick army in a capacity at last to have destroyed them also . this restless party having had this long in their design , no doubt wonderfully influenced some to procure such a settlement of religion upon his majesties restauration as should produce dissenters enough ; nor is it reasonable to think that all the latter severe acts against dissenters were not the fruits of their counsels , considering how conducive they were to make a great number of protestants willing for their own ease to have had an vniversal toleration , which ( though nothing is or can be more contrary to popish principles ) would admirably have served their design , giving an undisturbed liberty to their priests and jesuits ( who can never have an abode in any place without contriving the ruin of those they call hereticks ) in our own bowels to have contrived our ruin . or if this failed ( as indeed it did ) yet they knew that this way they should employ all our courts of judicature against protestants , so as they should not look after them ; and besides , raise a mighty odium and prejudice in the hearts of protestants one against another , so as whatever villany they should have effected , it would have been easie to have charged it upon dissenters , and there had been a party of protestants in name ready prepared to give credit to it . it is now evident to all who will not wilfully shut their eyes , how near they were to have accomplished their design . but god in infinite mercy hath prevented the accomplishment . after all this one would reasonably think that there should not be one protestant in england , who should not think it high time for our superiors to unite all protestants . a thing the more easie and reasonable , because it is apparent that it may be done without the least offence to god , or scandal to the generality of reformed churches ; and by the abatement only of some things which being abated , we shall be much more like all reformed churches , than we are . but against this some make a mighty outcry , ( out of what design god knoweth ) for it is a little mysterious , that those men who all along have been great pleaders for a reconciliation betwixt us and the church of rome , and the true disciples of those bishops , who to prevent the offence of that church , took upon them in the time of king charles the first to expunge passage out of the common-prayer-book , and to bring us as near as possible to them , erected altars , brought in tapers , and twenty things more ; should , now that they see the effect of those endeavours for , and favours to papists , not be willing for the reconciling of all protestants to abate those things which themselves own no where specially commanded by god ; and this too at a time when the popish bloody knives are at all our throats . especially considering that the true cause of retaining our ceremonies at the first , and forming our common-prayer-book in the method it is , was originally a desire so far to commend our worship to the papists ( whose religion lyes all in ceremonies and set-forms ) that they might be proselyted to us ; and the effects we have seen after an hundred years and upwards , is but the hardning of papists , and the alienating infinite numbers of protestants from us . i am aware that a late author in his book call'd , the vnreasonableness of separation , hath given us an account of three other reasons of the first imposition of the ceremonies upon the reformation . . a due reverence to antiquity . . to manifest the justice and equity of the reformation , by letting the papists see we did not break communion with them for things meerly indifferent . . to shew our consent with other protestant churches . but he had better have said nothing . for will some say , how have we reverenced antiquity in retaining three of their ceremonies , and leaving out twenty more of greater antiquity ( if we may believe the books we have ) than the surplice and kneeling at the sacrament , two of the three we have retained can pretend unto ? besides that , all the account we have of antiquity is from books printed within years ( for printing is very little older ) , from manuscripts , which if they bear date three hundred years after christ , must be years old when they were printed . if we stretch antiquity to years after christ , they must be years old , and all that time generally kept in the hands of the known depravers of all books that ever came in their hands where was any thing not for the purposes of their church . now what reverence is due to any such worm-eaten records of antiquity , let any men of sense judg . his second reason is as invalid ; for what need was there of our keeping two or three ceremonies to testifie we did not differ from them for meer matters of indifferency , when so many books , so many disputations , testified we differed from them because of their idolatry in many things , and their doctrine of justification by works , &c. the last is yet of all the most weak ; for how did we by it shew our consent with other protestant churches ? in the year which was the last of king edward ; in the year , which was the first of queen elizabeth , there were no protestant churches but the luther an churches , the suitzerland churches , and that of geneva , besides some in germany , which followed the reformation of suitzerland and geneva . in retaining these ceremonies we shewed a dissent to the reformed churches in suitzerland , and at geneva , and all those who followed their order , and shewed our consent only with the lutheran churches so imperfectly reformed , that in the synod at dōrt the messengers of all reformed churches there met , made a difficulty to afford them the name of protestants , though i think the name protestant better agreed to them than that of evangelici , which was the name the reformed were known by for the ten first years after the reformation began . besides , that for kneeling at the sacrament , the saxon churches retain it upon their peculiar notion , wherein they differ from all other reformed churches , viz. the corporeal presence of christ in and with that ordinance . for the retaining of some ceremonies in the saxon churches , a double account is to be given . luther and ambsdorfius were great zealots for them , partly to quiet the people , who had so lately been papists ; and it may be partly in opposition to zuinglius , and specicially to carolostadius , who had made himself the author of abolishing some , during luther's absence , when he was hid for fear of a decree at worms . melancthon ( a very learned man ) being of a more so●t ductile spirit , with justus jonas , and some others , took luther's part . carolostadius was run down ; both zuinglius and carolostadius saw that the retaining any of the popish ceremonies would have no desired effect , but rather scandalize their friends , and harden the papists ; and the taking them away afterward , would be called a refining upon a refining ; they therefore , though they bare with much some few years , yet took the first opportunity to throw them all out where they had to do . the case was much the same with us in england ; our ceremonies were retain'd upon no such pretences as were before expressed . there was no reverence in it shewed to antiquity . no consent shewed with the most or best reformed churches at that time . but our best and most eminent ministers had been papists , used their missal , practiced all their ceremonies . at that time to have receded from the papists in all things fit to have been receded from , might have been oddly lookt upon by the people . besides that the people in times of popery were much strangers to any thing of religion but ceremonies , and hearing mass ; hence ( as may be seen in the first edition of the common prayer ) many things were put in , which were left out by the bishops in the d edn. of it in k. edw. time . and had it pleased god after q. maries time to have continued us such bishops as cranmer , hooper , latimer , coverdale , &c. there is little doubt but these controversies had long since been at an end . but our bishops many of them were such moderate men as could abide here all queen maries time ; others of them were such as indeed had been beyond sea , but very zealous there to keep up the book , in the framing of which themselves had an hand ( amongst these was dr. cox ) , the same reason held as in k. edw. the . time , for humouring the people ; thus the ceremonies came at first to be established . for the forms of prayer , there was not the same reason for establishing some forms at present in that state of the church ; there could scarce have been any praying or preaching without some forms both of prayers and sermons ; there were twenty reading ministers for one who had any competent abilities either to pray or preach . but the reason was the very same for the establishing so many of the old forms , and keeping methods agreeing to none of any reformed church . i offer it to any knowing persons to judg whether ( whatever be said by some ) this was not the true reason of the first establishment ; and they were no invaluable reasons for the continuance of them for some few years until people were brought off more from their old superstitions . i find that in most places of germany at first , the reformation was gradual , some ceremonies and superstitious usages were cast out one year , some the next , some several years after the gospel was first preached in those places . but why these should be continued after twenty years , when it was seen that the continuance of them had no effect to bring in papists , but gave a great scandal to , and made a great division amongst protestants and when people were further enlightned , and their first heats for their old ways of worship were abated , is a much greater mystery ; yet we shall find that in the , , years of queen elizabeth , there was a more severe urging these things than ever before . i am loth to think any rancor against those at that time called puritans , was the original cause ; but do believe that an imployment for those who managed the ecclesiastical courts , without using their power against the papists , or moral debauchees , might be no little argument in the cause , and a design driven by the papists and atheists in the nation to that purpose . such considerations as these could never affect an english parliament so as to make a first establishment of them . but the succeeding parliaments and princes found them in possession ( that we say is nine parts of a law ) and some zealots in the church strained their wits to make them appear lawful , and so within the power of the superiour , and for many of them several good : men had not then light enough to discern their unlawfulness . ●● as there were very few that wrote to purpose on that argument ( dr. ames was almost the only man in his age . ) indeed the ceremonies , the reading the old translation of the scripture , and the apocryphal books , the subscription , that there was nothing in the common prayer book , and book of ordaining priests and deacons , but what was agreeable to gods word , were an hundred year since argued against as unlawful , as i could prove by several writings of the nonconformists of those times ( i have seen an ancient manuscript of them big enough for a just folio ) , some things were not then practised , non required to be put in ure , though they were in the queens injunctions , &c. ( some of them at least . ) in all the cases of nonconformists in queen elizabeths time , i find not a minister complaining for being inforced to receive , or to administer the sacrament to people kneeling ; i find nothing of any suffering for not bowing at the name of jesus , not ralling in the communion-table , not setting it altarwise , not reading the second service at it , with many more such things which were brought into practice by archbishop laud , bishop wren , and others . one great pretence of keeping up many of these things , was to avoid the scandal of the papists , and to intice them to our religion , &c. we have now seen the effects of this in the experience of an hundred years , which have been too sad to particularize ; it were easie to make a book of acts and monuments twice as big as mr. foxes , with the sufferings of holy and good men , upon these accounts in that time . what manner of persons the dissenters are , the experience of twenty years since his majesties restauration , hath sufficiently informed the world . what have the most fiery of their adversaries to object against them except in the matters of their god ? what kind of friend the popish party hath been , hath been also made sufficiently evident . i humbly leave it to the judgment of his most excellent maejesty and his parliament , whether seeing ( confessedly ) it may be without offence to the divine majesty , the taking away of those things which alone make the partition-wall betwixt protestants and protestants , be not as politick as pious , considering the history of conformity from the first unto this very day , which might possibly have appeared more reasonable if i would have inserted the lamentable stories of the sufferings of good men on this account , ( of which i have a plenty ) but i had rather they should be forgotten , most of the authors of them before this time have given up their account , and know whether they did good or evil ; and if any be alive , i hope all good men will say , father forgive them , for they knew not what they did . only let it be the religious care of our superiors to prevent any further complaints of this nature in our streets , for the lord most certainly heareth the crys of the innocent and oppressed . the history of conformity : or a proof of the mischief of impositions , from the experience of an hundred years . the notion of conformity with us in england , hath always signified a compliance with , and obedience to such commands of superiors in matters of doctrine , worship , and government of the church , as are no where expresly originated in the word of god , but supposed to be there left to liberty ; and being neither there commanded , nor forbidden , are presumed to be matter of superiors just commands . the power of superiors to command in things which the parties commanded do agree indifferent , was never yet disputed by the generality of nonconformists . but there being many things which superiors call indifferent , which the inferiors verily believe to be unlawful , the difference hath chiefly been about these , and still is so to this day . upon the reformation of this nation from popery in the days of k. edw. the th , in the year , ( which was edw. th ) there were articles of faith agreed on ; and in the . & edw. . cap. . & . & edw. . cap. . two acts were made referring to two common-prayer-books made in the short reign of that excellent prince . it must be known , that before this time in the time of k. hen. . there were great foundations for reformation laid , in the suppression of monasteries , taking away the popes supremacy destruction of appeals to rome , printing the bible in english ; but there was no reformation in doctrine , worship , or discipline . for the doctrine , it appeareth to have been popish by the six articles ; the first of which yet was so penned , as though it established a corporal presence of christ in the supper , yet it seemed to leave it indefinite , whether in the popish or lutheran sense , which possibly gave archbishop cranmer ( who as well as latimer and other good men at that time were lutherans ) a latitude to be an agent in lamberts condemnation . the other five articles against giving the cup to the laity , and for private masses , and monkish vows , auricular confession , and priests marriages , were perfectly popish . so as in that time no nonconformist appear'd , but as to doctrine , of which lambert the martyr was one , and so were all those that suffered upon the account of the six articles , together with multitudes who fled into other countries to avoid that persecution . the worship of those days was the mass , only some parts of it were in english . the government of the church was also in the same method ; for though three acts had been made to authorize k. h. . to call together persons to make a book of new canons ; yet for ought appeareth to us , it was not done . and possibly a due consideration , that several of our greatest reformers were lutherans at first , may satisfie us as to the first establishment of our liturgy in the method it was , and retaining of some ceremonies ; the saxon churches having before reformed in that method , keeping as much as they could both of the old prayers and ceremonies . and it is very likely that when after queen maries time the reformation came to be re-setled , some of those who had a great hand in it , were possessed of the lutheran principles , as to the corporal presence , forms and ceremonies , or at least had a very great reverence for cranmer , latimer and others ( who were then dead as martyrs ) , and chose to fix things according to their sentiments in these matters , without so due weighing things as the matter required , or having not so early a prospect of the evils which experience hath since let us see following thereupon . in the first parliament of king edw. . the first statute tells us , that before that time ( in the times of popery ) they had several forms , one used at sarum , another at bangor , &c. and the whole ministry of the nation were just come out of popery , and neither fit to pray nor preach , which was the reason both of that establishment , and also of the book of homilies , and of the original cause of that imposition on the ministry , not to preach without license . for the truth is , hardly one of an hundred of the priests newly proselyted from popery , were fit to preach at all , which made our rulers restrain preaching only to such as should be licensed . besides , that there was just reason to fear that those priests but for such a law , and such a book , would have returned to their former mass-service . to prevent which , the book was provided , , edw. . and corrected , edw. . and all ministers injoin'd by statute to read those prayers , and all the people to bear them . there was before that time no nonconformist to direct the act against , only papists . but upon the second edition of the common-prayer there appeared a considerable party , who opposed themselves to it . three years before , bishop hooper and mr. rogers had declared themselves against some rites and ceremonies but the last year of edw. . was the first time we read of any opposition to the common prayer , and the contest was quickly at an end by the coming in of q. mary . the business of church-government as to the rules of it , was left by king edward undetermined ; for he died before he had given his royal sanction to that systeme of ecclesiastical laws which was drawn up by archbishop cranmer and others , by vertue of his commission directed to them in the fifth year of his reign . in all his time no subscription was required by statute or canon ( that i can find ) established by his authority under the broad seal , either to the articles of faith , or to the book of common-prayer , &c. nor do i read of one minister silenced , or suspended upon any such account , or any people vexed for nonconformity . our prudent reformers knowing they had to do with a people who were papists the other day , in their first common prayer book varied as little as they could from the popish missal , and kept as many of the ceremonies as they conceived were consistent with any degree of reformation . in the second common-prayer-book they varied more ; but yet we are assured by dr. fuller in his church history , lib. . that the party now disaffected to the liturgy became very considerable . this was in the very beginning of the reformation , anno . queen mary succeeding , put an end to all these contests in england for the whole time of her reign , which was but five years . to avoid her persecution , multitudes fled beyond the seas , fixing some at basil , some at geneva , some at strasburgh , some at embden , some at francfort , and other places . we have no account , that i know , how those governed themselves as to religious matters , who fixed at any of those places , save only at francfort and geneva ; those at geneva followed the order of that church , so did those at francfort , using the order at geneva from june , , to mar. . , when dr. cox ( one of those who had compiled our english common prayer book , and was mightily in love with his own labours ) came over with a new party from england , and by his arts got admission into the church at francfort , and brought in the english book amongst them ; nor did this satisfie him , but he must also turn out their pastor mr. knox , and that not from his charge only , but out of francfort , procuring him ( by some of his party ) to be accused to the senate for a sermon he had two years before preached in bucking hamshire here in england , in which he had some passages reflecting upon the emperour of germany as an idolater , &c. which made some of the senate advise him to leave the city , because the imperial court was then at ausburgh ; and if this malicious party had carried an accusation against him thither , and the emperour should require the city to deliver him as a traytor to him , they could not refuse him . which made mr. knox and a considerable party of that church remove to geneva . this was the first fruits of the conformable mens kindness to poor dissenters , though at that time they were both parties voluntary exiles in a strange land for the common cause of religion . so that dr. cox , who was afterward bishop of ely ; and horne , who was afterwards made bishop of winchester ; were left in possession of that church , and there performed their devotions by the english common-prayer-book , which at that time had had but the establishment of one year before it was thrown out for the mass in england . queen elizabeth came to the crown three years after this , in the year . upon which , the banished from all parts returned , both those who had fled from king hen . persecution , for the six articles , who if any of them returned before , were driven back again ; and those who fled from queen maries persecution , from . to . these ( if we may believe bishop bancroft and dr. fuller ) having beyond sea sucked in the protestant principles for worship as well as discipline , were the fathers of nonconformity in england . but these were either many more than i could ever find registred , or else under both persecutions multitudes must lye hid in england . and indeed some make the cause of the different apprehensions in protestants at that time to lye here ; that those most favourable to conformity , and promoters of it , were such as had never been abroad , but during both those persecutions , weathered the storm in england ; and the nonconformists , such as had been abroad , and seen the worship , order and discipline of the churches in suitzerland , and germany , and at geneva . but this is not universally true ; for both dr. cox. and mr. horne were at francfurt , yet high en ough for our conformity , both during their abode there , and after their return into england . in the first year of queen elizabeth several acts passed , which revived the reformation , uniting the ecclesiastical jurisdiction to the crown , repealing queen maries act of repeal , and reviving several statutes for the reformation made in the time of hen. . and edw. . establishing vniformity of prayers . and it is to be noted , that these acts passed without the assent of one bishop : there were at this time but fourteen present , and they were all papists , and notorious dissenters from all acts of this nature . this by the way may let my reader understand the popish design of a party amongst us , for whom it is not enough that the clergy be owned as one of the three estates of the realm ( of which the king is the head ) but they will also have them to be one of the three states in parliament ; which if they be , no law can be of force that wants the consent of some of them . so that if that notion were yeilded , all our acts for reformation must be concluded nullities . it was the second year of the queen before we had a set of protestant bishops . it was her majesties interest at that time , so to govern her self , as to caray an equal hand to all protestants ; accordingly she fill'd up the bishopricks , partly with men that during the late persecutions had staid in england ; partly of such as had fled beyond the seas . . mathew parker , archbishop of canterbury — he had lived a private life in england . these , if no more , had been exiles . . edward grindall , bishop of london . . robert horne , bishop of winchester . . richard cox , bishop of ely. . edward sands , bishop of worcester . . john jewel , bishop of salisbury . . tho. beatham , b of coventry and litchfield . . john parkhurst , bishop of norwish . whether these had been beyond sea , during the persecution , i cannot tell . . rowland mecreek , bishop of bangor , . nicholas bullingham , bishop of lincoln . . thomas young , bishop of st. davids . . richard davyes , bishop of asaph . . gilbert barclay , bishop of bath and wells . . edmond guest , bishop of rochester . . william alley bishop of exeter . . edmond seamler , bishop of peterborough . . richard cheyney , bishop of glocester . . thomas young , archbishop of york . . james pilkington , bishop of durham . . john best , bishop of carlisle . . george downham , bishop of chester . the other bishopricks were either detained in the queens hands , or held in commendam . these men were all of them conformists , but some of them knew the heart of sufferers for their consciences towards god , for themselves had been such ; indeed they generally had been so , though in different degrees . this temper of these bishops gave that party much quiet for several years , who could not agree to the liturgy and ceremonies . i find a very large petition presented by multitudes to the queen , anno. . which was the third year of her reign , in three or four sheets m. s. where they complain of insufficient and scandalous ministers , of pluralists , and non-residents , and lawyers being ministers , but i find not the least complaint of any suspended , deprived , &c. yet even at the first i find mr. coverdale refusing to be restored to his bishoprick of exeter , and reverend gilpen refusing the bishoprick of carlisle . but no subscription was yet required to any thing , by any legal authority ; nor was the use of all the common-prayer-book , or an exact observance of the ceremonies , generally urged . this kept all in quiet some years : the people enjoyed the labours of their godly ministers : the ministers at that time scrupled not to use some parts of the common-prayer : the bishops did not exact their use of the more offensive parts of it , nor of the ceremonies : some particular officials were a little busie ; and some few , very few men were sufferers by them : but the body of the nonconforming ministers and people were much quiet , until not only arch-bishop parker was dead , but bishop grindall also , who succeeded him in that , who died about . about the th of the queen . in the year . dr. john whitgift came to be archbishop of canterbury . the first i read of , as to subscriptions and nonconformity , was when the subscription to the . articles , which were made by the convocation . but not confirmed by parliament until the year . ( which was the th eliz. ) and then only required to be subscribed by such as were to be admitted to livings : and ; that no further than so far as concerned matters of faith and the doctrine of the sacraments , was exacted from all ministers . after the agreement in them by the convocation , . several bishops without any authority from parliament , imposed a subscription to the whole number of them upon all ministers in their diocesces ; the refusal of which caused the sufferings of seveaal particular men . john fox being required to subscribe , pulled out his greek testament , and plainly told the archbishop , he would subscribe to nothing but that ; but yet such was the gravity of the man , such his eminency for his service to the church , that he was let alone . the famous laurence humfry , and anthony gilby , and some others appeared nanconformists . betwixt . and . also ( especially in the latter part of that time ) the bishops began to press a subscription to two articles more , the one to acknowledg the queens supremacy : that none denied , or as good as none : the other was , that the common-prayer-book , the books of homilies , and the book of ordering bishops , priests and deacons , contained in them nothing contrary to the word of god. to this day there is no book of canons confirmed by parliament that requireth any such thing : but i cannot find that there was any canon about these things , that had king edward's , or queen elizabeths assent notified under the broad seal , so as it could pretend to any legal establishment . but the bishops of that age were adventuring to establish these things upon their own authority , directly contrary to the statute . henry . which restrained them from putting any canons in use , to be made after that time , unless they first had the kings assent . the oath of supremacy was indeed established by act st . eliz. but a subscription was not . the use of the common-prayer was commanded by an act st eliz. but a subscription , that that there was nothing in it , nor in the homilies , nor in the book of ordering bishops , priests and deacons , contrary to the word of god , under a penalty of suspension or deprivation , was not . and the question so often put to them by the bishops , will you use that which you will not subscribe to , that it contains nothing repugnant to gods word ? is easily answered : there was a great part of the book ( viz. the rubricks ) that were not to be used in god's worship . nor did they use it all , but some part of it , which was not offensive to them and other good people . but altho' many suffered upon this new imposition after whitgift came to be a considerable figure in the church ; yet the great shock was after that he came ( upon the death of grindal ) to be arch-bishop of canterbury , which was about the year . and the first considerable nonconformity of ministers in england is to be dated from this time . some separation there was before this time : for bishop bancroft in his dangerous positions tells us , that within the ten or eleven first years of the queens reign , many of the people separated , meeting in woods and fields . but their numbers were not valuable , nor their persons much considerable ; they were generally as sheep without a shepherd , few or no ministers being amongst them , at least of any note or authority , to give them any great name or repute . the author of the book entituled , the unlawful practices of the prelates , which was wrote about that time , tells us , that as to protestant dissenters , the queen had a most peaceable government for the first twenty four years of her reign . towards some particular good men , some hard dealings were shewed here and there , by the instigation of some ignorant and half popish persons , for lack of judgment and knowledg . that which possibly gave occasion to this activity of the bishops , were two sorts of dissenters which they observed amongst the ministers . some who only dissented as to the common-prayer-book and ceremonies , of which number were mr. field , mr. wilcox , mr. standon , mr. boxham , mr. saintcloe , mr. clare , mr. edmonds . others that were also for the reformation of discipline , amongst whom were mr. clark , mr. travers , mr. barber , mr. gardner , mr. chestou , mr. crook , mr. egerton , who were all betrayed by one mr. johnson who was wont to meet with them , and many of them most miserably treated in the high commission upon it . a great noise was made of the election of a presbytery at wandsworth in surry , the meaning of which was no more than this . the queens and the bishops orders extending no further to the trial and fitness of communicants , than if they could say the creed , the lords prayer , and the ten commandments ( all which might be done by one so ignorant , that no minister who regarded what he did , could administer the lords supper unto ) some ministers did agree of a stricter examination , and the people made choice of ten or eleven persons to be present at that action . possibly it had been less exposed to scandal , if instead of them , two or three ministers had so joined , and the end as well obtained ; but surely this was a far lesser evil , than the admitting of all to the sacrament that could but rehearse the creed , lords prayer , and ten commandments ; there was nothing in this action , but any pious ministers who are the stewards of the mysteries of god , might answer with a safe conscience ; for of stewards it is required that they should be faithful , saith the apostle ; and i believe any bishop would have judged his steward unfaithful , if he had dealt out his master's goods contrary to his master's order . the ministers master's order is plain enough , that the holy sacrament belongs not either to ignorant or scandalous persons . all the churches of god in all ages agree this , our own church in her principles agreeth it ; yet in practice , all ministers were tyed to give the sacrament ( as in times of popery ) to all such as could but rehearse the creed , the pater noster , and the ten commandments ; and confessed in lent ; those eminent persons who were commissionated by edw. . to draw up a new body of ecclesiastical laws ( though that excellent prince lived not long enough to set his hand and seal to it , so as what they had done had no legal force ) had expresly determined , tit. de sacramentis , cap. . we will have none admitted to the table of the lord , until in the church he hath made profession of his faith . what should good ministers do in this case ? they could act but precariously ; it seems at wandsworth in surry , there was a people that voluntarily submitted to this ; what harm was this to the bishops ? but the truth is , this business of discipline came into very little debate before . after that subscription had been so fatally imposed . in several diocesses i perceive there were some circumstantial variations in the forms of subscriptions . to let my reader therefore know what it was , i will give it him as it lieth in the th canon , . when it first received any thing like a legal confirmation , which was at least . or . years after it was first devised , and full . years after it was so rigorously pressed . . art. that the queens majesty , under god , is thē supreme governour of this realm , and of all other her highnesses dominions , and territories , as well in all spiritual or ecclesiastical things or causes , as temporal ; and that no forreign prince , person , state or potentate , hath , or ought to have any jurisdiction , power , superiority , or preheminence , or authority , ecclesiastical or spiritual , within her majesties realms , dominions or countries . . art. that he alloweth the book of articles , agreed on by the archbishops and bishops of both provinces , and the whole clergy , in the convocation holden at london , . and that he acknowledgeth all and every the articles therein , being in number . besides the ratification , to be agreeable to the word of god. . art. that the book of common-prayer , and of ordering bishops , priests and deacons , containeth in it nothing contrary to the word of god , and that it may lawfully be used . and that he himself will use the form in the said book , prescribed in publick prayer and administration of the sacraments , and no other . this engine was first formed by the archbishop whitgift , and was one of those . proposals he offered to the queen , for the setling of the church ( a copy of which in m. s. with two answers to them , i have read , ) some little difference there was in the arch-bishops form : his first article was , . art. that the authority which is given her majesty , in causes ecclesiastical , by the laws of the land , is lawful , and according to the word of god. the second article was his third , andran thus : . art. that he allowed the book of articles of religion , agreed on by the archbishops and bishops of both provinces , and the whole clergy in the convocation holden at london . and set forth by her majesties authority , and that he agreeth the articles therein contained , to be agreeable to the word of god. . art. ( which was the archbishops second ) was word for word the same . this motion of the archbishops put the queen upon adding force to the imposition , which indeed had been by some bishops began before , but now in most diocesses it was rigorously pressed . the issue of this is told us by the author of the unlawful practices of prelates in these words : whatsoever was required in civil causes , either that concerned her majesty ; or the state , was by the ministers embraced wholly and freely in ecclesiastical causes also , whatsoever concerned doctrine , or otherwise , was expresly required by statute for subscription . thus far at the first all men with protestation offered , but to yeild to this thing , so strange and new , without any law in streighter sort than ever was required . that all things were agreeable to gods word , and not against it ; not only tollerable but allowable , both in the book of common prayer , and in the book of ordering bishops , priests and deacons . this was refused , divers of the ministers were suspended , multitudes were thrust out how many godly , able , painful ministers were outed all over england , i cannot tell , but ex ungue leonem , i have seen a m. s. which gives an account of the names of sixty odd in suffolk , twenty one in lincolnshire , sixty four in norfolk , thirty eight in essex ; which though they seem comparatively few , yet are a great many when we consider that in essex , at that time , there was an account given of . ministers that never preach'd , only read prayers and homilies , and . more , pluralists , non residents , or persons most notoriously debaucht . this was the first fruit of that archbishops preferment , and a fair offer at the rooting out of the reformed religion as soon as planted , which never did , nor ever will live and flourish in any place , under the conduct of an ignorant , debauched , unpreaching ministry ; such a ministry , much better serving popish than protestant purposes . what the ministers that were suspended , or deprived did , to prevent their misery ; or to get this severity a little mitigated and allayed at this time , in the years , , . i shall inform the world from the worthy author of the book aforementioned , wrote at that very time , and often quoted by bishop bancroft . his words are these : the cause was general , means were made , ministers presented doubts , protestations , supplications ; they were repulsed , reviled , threatned ; the ministers did indure , sustained with a good conscience ; but their miserable flocks were subject to all disorders , spoils , havock : good men mourned , evil men prevailed , license possessed all places , nothing was reserved whole to civil and modest life . these things gentlemen of all sorts took to heart , they lamented their own estate , and the estate of the people , they pitied their ministers , their wives and children ; gods cause moved them , the honour of the gospel drew them , yea the safety of her majesty in these dangerous times compelled them , their own offices of justice , which by the word was so well aided , and which without it they could not steer in a storm of so great confusion , drew them to sue in all humble sort to the archbishop , testifying the wholesome doctrine , together with the honest life of their pastors , declaring the breaches , waste and wrecks of their country , the present evil , the dangers to come ; finally craving , that in regard of the souls of the people , and their own , he would accept such a subscription as the law expresly appointed [ . eliz. c. . ] and restore the poor men both to their preaching and livings . this second means prevail'd with him [ archbishbp whitgift ] no more than the first . the third was attempted . this refuge was to the honourable senate of her majesties privy-council . there it was in like manner sought , and declared , the proceedings before used with the archbishop . the inconveniency by this new dealing sprang up in the church and commonwealth , was shewed , and witnessed by subscribed hands . these supplications , with letters of favour were sent to the archbishop , in the behalf of preachers ; did he yet any thing relent ? surely no , nay , i would he had not been more indurate . six or eight months were thus spent , the country devoid of preaching , the calamities of some shires increased , testimonies , informations , multiplied . at the length , such were the complaints , that her majesties most honourable council dealt very feelingly in the case lest any should traduce that book as giving a false account , i could out of a ms. in my hands , fill a competent volume with copies of supplications of this nature . it shall suffice to give an instance or two . . of the ministers applications to archbishop whitgift . . the peoples , and several gentlemens applications and supplications to the archbishop ; then . to the council . letters from noblemen and privy-councellors to the archbishop , &c. that of the ministers of the diocess of ely , is one of the shortest , i shall therefore transcribe that for a specimen of applications to the archbishop . whereas two canonical admonitions upon our obedience , are already past ( most r●verend father in god ) and suspension ready to proceed against us for not subscribing to some things we know not , and others that we greatly doubt of : we having received good hope upon our own knowledg of your lordships wonted hatred of sin , and love of true religion and godliness , are bold to offer our humble supplication unto you , as well to shew our obedience to all superiority over us in the lord , as also to crave your lordships lawful favour for larger space of time to be granted to us , considering how carefully we have used our ministry to the building of the church , endeavouring with all our hearts to keep the good peace thereof , which we daily pray for : wherefore if it shall please your lordship to deal so graciously with us , as either to free us from all subscriptions , saving to her majesties authority , and the articles of the christian religion , which the law requireth ; or to give us so long time , as divers treatises may be perused by us , that either we may be satisfied in our persuasions to subscribe , or ( if there be no remedy ) quietly to give place to the peace of the church . in the mean time we judg them not that have subscribed , as we desire not to be judged in this our staying . thus if it shall please almighty god to move your lordship to take compassion on our troubled consciences , that we may feel our burden lighter by your good favour , we shall praise god for the same , and shew our thank fulness to your lordship , which we pray god to preserve and keep to the good and benefit of his church , and to your own comfort . . march . your graces most humble , robert garret bowter . martin . henry dickenson . mat. chapman . edw. brain . christopher jackson . thomas brain . many supplications of this nature were in that and in the two following years presented to the archbishop , to particular bishops of diocesses , &c. which i forbear to transcribe , the matter being much the same . these not finding their due effect , the gentlemen of several counties petitioned the archbishop . i could insert several copies ; i shall only insert that of the gentlemen in cambridgshire to the archbishop , bearing date the . of april , . may it please your lordship , that under your good favour we whose 〈…〉 en ●●y be acceptable suitors on the behalf of divers godly ministers with in this county of cambridg , whose names are set down in a schedule herewith sent unto you , concerning the manner of subscribing to the articles lately published , the execution whereof towards our ministers , we fear would be to the displacing of them , as some are already ; whereby we think great inconvenience must follow in these parts , by reason that both the sufficiency and good conversation of these already placed , with the good success and blessing on their labours , is evidently known unto us , and we are persuaded that they continue their places by bond in conscience , for that hitherto we have not heard of any contentiousness in religion , or disquietness and disorder in any of them or their people : wherefore altho in your wise and fatherly care , your desire is to make choice of a good supply if these fail ; yet if it should seem good unto your wisdom , we should acknowledg our selves much bound unto your lordship in the continuance of these men , being known unto us already ; the other hereafter to come being unknown what they shall be ; and so much the rather , because of the bare livings which some of them have , whereby it is to be feared it will be no easie matter to place sufficient men in their stead . thus trusting , and nothing doubting but that they may find your honourable favour so far forth as you may grant , not contrary to the law of this realm ; and most humbly beseeching , that we may enjoy them in their rooms as long as any others in other places , whereof we and they hope so much the more , for that it pleased god once to make your lordship a special member in this county for a time , whereby as you gave and bestowed a great cause of love , so you reaped much good will ; which as it remaineth in us and them to stand you in any stead to our powers , so we trust that we and they shall find this latter fruit of it , to our great comfort and benefit : and thus we humbly take our leave . your graces assured , john cutts . fr. hind . john hutton . fitzralph chamblein . thomas wendy . thomas chickly . anthony cage . some others there were of this nature ; but it seemed ●●●h by what followed , and also by what the author of the book aforementioned saith , that the archbishops ear was deaf to all supplications of this nature , and has resolved to carry his subscription through . the poor ministers in this distress , together also with the gentlemen of several counties , and the people of several places , addressed themselves by petition to the queen , and to particular lords of the council , then to the queen and the whole council . particularly , dunmow in essex sent a supplication to my lord rich. the parishioners of aldermary in london , to the earl of leicester . the ministers of the diocess of peterborough , to another lord. many addressed to the whole council , viz. the gentlemen of norfolk , the ministers in norfolk , the ministers of essex , the ministers of lincolnshire . essex , oxfordshire , the isle of ely , and many other counties and places . i have by me all the copies ; i shall only transcribe that of the ministers of lincolnshire . the supplication of the ministers of lincolnshire to the lords of the council . forasmuch ( right honourable ) as the lord of heaven and earth hath substituted your honours next under her majesty , to procure passage to his gospel , beauty to his church , and glory to his kingdom ; in which business of the lord , to the great joy of all those which pray heartily for the peace of jerusalem , hitherto you have happily proceeded : we whose names are underwritten , whom the same lord hath in mercy placed over some of his people here in lincolnshire , as pastors and preachers to feed them with the word of truth , do humbly beseech your honours to regard the pitiful and woful estate of our congregations and people in these parts , which being destitute of our ministry by the means of a subscription generally and strictly urged now of late by the bishops officers , do mourn and lament . it is well known to all your lordships , that an absolute subscription is required throughout the whole province of canterbury to three articles . the first concerning her majesties supreme authority . the second to the book of common-prayer , with that of consecrating bishops , and ordering priests and deacons . the third concerning the book of articles . as touching the first , we offer our sevles to a full subscription , as always heretofore we have done ; as also to the articles of religion [ i presume here must be meant , as in the rest generally is exprest , so far as they concern matters of faith , and the doctrine of the sacraments , ] and cannot be accepted herein , without an absolute subscribing to the other , unto which we dare not condescend , being as yet many of us not fully acquainted with the book of confecrating bishops , and ordering priests and deacons ; and all of us unresolved , and unsatisfied in our consciences , in many points of the common-prayer . may it please your lordships also , favourably to consider , that in refusing an absolute subscription , we do it not out of any arrogance , or singularity , but only for that we have no sufficient resolution , which we have earnestly desired of some doubts , about divers weighty matters , and points in the same book ; which requests of ours , sith we could not obtain , we desired , that at the least in our subscription , we might make exceptions of the things whereof we doubted , which they have utterly denied us , for which causes ( right honourable ! ) we fearing to subscribe so absolutely as we were urged , we are all suspended from executing the function of our ministry amongst our people , to the great danger of their souls , and danger of losing the fruit of our former poor labours , which we have by gods grace imployed upon them : wherefore we humbly crave of your honours ( our cause being , as we are perswaded , the lords own cause , and his churches ) that it may be considered : and that since we can neither be impeached of false doctrine , nor of contempt of her majesties laws , nor of refusing of the exercising of the book of common-prayer in our charges , nor of breeding contention and sedition in the church : and again , that papists , her majesties enemies , with atheists , to the corrupting of religion in doctrine and manners , do daily multiply and increase , we may be restored to our flocks and people , in such sort , as with all peace of conscience we may go forward with the lords work in building up his house in several places . thomas fulkeck . hugh tuke . john daniel . richard allen. anthony hunt. reinold grome . thomas tripler . shepheard . henry nelson . mat. tomson . thomas bradly . joseph gibson . james worship . charles bingam . john munning . humfrid travers . john pryer . john summerscales . john wintle . richard holdsworth . richard kellet . these are enough for specimens of several sorts of supplications . there were others more particularly directed to the queen , and to some great persons , all much to the same sense . this last means had some little effect : of which the author of the book called the unlawful practices of prelates , giveth us this account , c. . hence became the subscription to be somewhat more tolerable , and further time was granted unto divers in divers countreys , and retaining that which pertained to the civil state , and in the ecclesiastical that which concerned doctrine , with protestation to use the book of common-prayer , the archbishop suffered himself to be entreated to require no more of many . to this many were drawn : the peace of the church , the compassion of their flocks , the weariness of turmoils , brought many to it , that yet did it , some with tears , some with so great heaviness of conscience long after , as they were never quiet till their dying day . so great a desire of unity was in sundry men that stood herein . others satisfying themselves with a protestation of an holy and godly resolution by the archbishop , and other of the bishops , in certain points ( as they supposed ) by the example of certain learned men in the like case , did not refuse to subscribe , as the ministers of sussex , and such like . again , some other special men were admitted in divers places with more favour , as the ministers of leicestershire , buckinghamshire , and somt other places , and some such others ( chiefly such whose authority would have brought discredit to their too too severe proceedings ) without any subscription at all . hence , of the multitude that held out , at first seemed not so great ( tho in truth in respect of the men , and the times , they were too too many ) and their subscription laid with their sundry exceptions in a manner no subscription at all . but with the credit of these , shewing only the subscriptions in one paper , and retaining their protestation in another , many were drawn also as unawares birds into the net , by the chirping of birds first taken . from the colour of these last forms of subscriptions , sprang bruits , as tho all things were well in the orders and liturgy of the church of england ; all things subscribed unto ; that all had yielded ; that whosoever mouths were open , had subscribed . but how far these differ frow that which was at first tendered , i suppose no man is ignorant . as again , how little difference there is between the latter , and that which all men did freely and frankly offer at the first . nothing that did pertain to her excellent majesty was struck at ; nothing that concerned doctrine , or the substance of our faith . nothing that in the statutes was set down touching subscription . the most that was excepted against at first , and that generally , were the ceremonies , the reading the apocryphal books , the ill translation of the scriptures used , the rubricks , very many things in the book of ordaining bishops , priests , and deacons , and several passages in the prayers . the number was not many , who refused to use a set-form of prayer to be constantly used in their ministry . it was but twenty five years since the whole nation came out of popery , where they knew nothing else ; and it could not be expected that in that time should be a discovery of all that was truly blameable in worship , or government of the church . yet there were some that in those days refused this . bishop bancroft in his dangerous positions , p. tells us , that mr. field in a letter to mr. asker , . ap. . tells him : i preach every sabbath-day , ( if no other that cometh by chance doth supply the place ) having nothing to do at all with the former book of common-prayer , &c. this was the first division of godly ministers into such as were purely nonconformists . . conforming nonconformists . the latter were the greater number , who had subscribed to use the common-prayer , but not to read it fully and in all parts ; and this with protestations , that their subscriptions should not oblige them to do any thing contrary to the word of god , &c. there were several forms of it . twenty ministers of the diocess of chichester thus subscribed , with exception to all the rubricks , the book of ordination , and i know not how many limitations . here the great and infinite wisdom of god was seen , governing the failers of his servants to his own wise ends and glory . by this means a preaching ministry was preserved in england , which had the bishop kept to his first severity , and all the ministers that at first refused , absolutely persisted in their refusal , had before the reformation was . years old , been destroyed throughout england , at least the greatest part of it . but ( saith our saviour ) he that will save his life shall lose it . very many of these good men were afterwards suspended , deprived , indited , imprisoned , wearied out of their lives by troubles in the high commission ; though not for not subscribing ( for which was no law ) yet for not wearing the surplice , not using the cross in baptism , not keeping holydays , not reading all the prayers , or some such like things . thus was our state from . till . when king james came to the crown . hitherto i have shewed my reader the first impositions in england , and the woful mischief wrought by them , not only to multitudes of particular families , but to the interest of the gospel and reformation in general . i shall now proceed to a second period , which will take up the whole time of king james his reign , from . to . whitgift was in the beginning archbishop , and bancroft bishop of london . their writings sufficiently testifie how zealous both of them were against nonconformists . the convocation this year established the three articles ( which years before had made such a confusion ) by a canon ; it is their canon : which canons were confirmed by king james , but never since brought to a parliament , or confirmed by them . i am not concerned to enquire how valid they are as laws obligatory to the subject , till confirmed by parliament ( that belongeth to lawyers to argue , and dependeth upon the kings prerogative , and the terms used in the act of hen. . ) i am only concerned to note how conformity improved upon these canons , and also what the effect of these new impositions was . for the first , let the canons themselves speak . subscription to the three articles was now enjoined by canon . bowing at the name of jesus was enjoined can . bidding of prayer , by another canon , with a multitude of other things too long to be here recited ; for which i refer my reader to the book of canons . the first fruit of this was a petition with a thousand ministers hands , presentad to the king , . saith dr. fuller . indeed dr. fuller saith , the hands were but . i believe he taketh his intelligence from the abridgment of that book , which the ministers of lincoln diocess , delivered to his majesty , . december , . i find them there mentioned to be . out of . counties . dr. fuller saith , . which are but half the counties of england and wales , hardly so much . their numbers are thus countd . oxfordshire . stafordshire . dorsetshire . nottinghamshire . surry . norfolk . wiltshire . buckinghamshire . sussex . leicestershire . essex . cheshire . bedsordshire . somersetshire . darbyshire . lancashire . kent . london . lincolnshire . warwickshire . devon and cornwall . northampton . suffolk . these make : here are none reckoned of any county in wales , nor any of yorkshire , barkshire , and many others . i know no reason any hath to doubt , but that there were a . hands to this petition ; the petitioners in the body of their petition say , they were more than a thousand , and they would not have told a lye to a king , which so little labour as counting them would have proved to be such . but the matter of the petition is very considerable , to let my reader know both to what height impositions were grown . years since , and what oppositions they met with from our fore-fathers . dr. fuller in his church-history assures us , he has got the true copy , i will therefore transcribe it from him , as i find it in the th book , p. . most gracious and dread soveraign ! seeing it hath pleased the divine majesty , to the great comfort of all good christians , to advance your highness , according to your just title , to the peaceable government of this church , and common-wealth of england : we , the ministers of the gospel in this land , neither as factious men , affecting a popular parity in the church , nor as schismaticks , aiming at the dissolution of the state ecclesiastical , but as the faithful servants of christ , and loyal subjects to your majesty , desiring , and longing for a redress of divers abuses of the church , could do no less in our obedience to god , service to your majesty , love to his church , than acquaint your majesty with our particular griefs , for as your princely pen writeth t● the king , as a good physician , must first know what peccant humours his patient naturally is most subject unto , before he can begin his cure : and although divers of us that s●● for reformation , subscribe to the book , some upon protestation , some upon exposition given them , some with condition , rather than the church should have been deprived of their labour and ministry ; yet now we to the number of more than a thousand of your majesties subjects and ministers , all groaning as under a common burden of humane rites and ceremonies do with one joint consent humble our selves at your majesties feet , to be cased and relieved in this behalf . our humble suit then unto your majesty is , that these offences following , some of them may be removed , some amended , some qualified . . in the church service , that the cross in baptism , interrogatories ministred to infants , confirmation ( as superfluous ) may be taken away , baptism not to be administred by women , and so explained . the cap and surplice not urged . that examination may go before the communion . that it may be administred with a sermon . that divers terms of priests , absolution , and some others used , with the ring in marriage , and other such like in the book , might be corrected . the longsomeness of service abridged . church-songs and musick moderated to better edification . that the lords day be not profaned . the rest upon holidays not so strictly urged . that there may be an vniformity of doctrine prescribed , no popish opinion any more taught or defended . no ministers charged to teach the people to bow at the name of jesus . that the canonical scriptures only be read in the church . . concerning church ministers : that none hereafter be admited into the ministry but able and sufficient men , and those to preach diligently , and especially upon the lords day . that such as be already entred , and cannot preach , may either be removed , and some charitable course taken for their relief , or else to be forced according to the value of their livings to maintain preachers . that non-residency be not permitted . that king edwards statute for the lawfulness of ministers marriages may be revived . that ministers be not urged to subscribe , but according to the law , to the articles of religion , and the kings supremacy only . . for church-livings , and maintenance : that bishops leave their commendams , some holding prebends , some parsonages , some vicarages with their bishopricks . that double beneficed men be not suffered to hold , some two , some three benefices with cure , and some two three or four dignities besides . that impropriations annexed to bishopricks and colledges , be demised only to preachers incumbent , for the old rent . that the impropriations of lay-mens fees may be charged with a sixth or seventh part of the worth to the maintenance of the ●reaching ministers . . for church-discipline : that the discipline and excommunication may be administred according to christs institution , or at the least that enormities may be redressed , as namely , that excommunication come not forth under the names of chancellors , lay-persons , officials , &c. that men be not excommunicated for trifles , twelve peny matters , that none be ecommunicated without consent of his pastor . that the officers be not suffered to extort unreasonable fees . that none having jurisdiction or registers places , put out the same to farm . that divers popish canons as for restraint of marriage at certain times be reversed . that the longsomeness of suits in ecclesiastical courts which hang sometimes , , , , , years , may be restrained . that the oath ex officio , by which men are forced to accuse themselves , be more sparingly used . that licenses for marriage without banes asked , be more cautiously granted . these with such other abuses yet remaining , and practised in the church of england , we are able to shew to be not agreeable to the scriptures , if it shall please your highness further to hear us , or more at large to be informed , or by conference amongst the learned to be resolved . and yet we doubt not but that your majesty without further process , of whose christian judgment we have received so good a taste already , is able of your self to judg of the equity of this cause ; god we trust hath appointed your highness our physician to heal these diseases ; and we say with mordecai to esther , who knoweth but you are come to the kingdom for such a time ? thus your majesty shall do that which we are perswaded shall be acceptable to god , honourable to your majesty in all succeeding ages , profitable to his church , which shall be thereby increased , comfortable to your ministers , which shall be no more suspended , silenced , disgraced , imprisoned for mens traditions ; and prejudicial unto none , but those who seek their own credit , quiet and profit in the world . thus with all dutiful submission referring our selves to your majesties pleasure for your gracious answer , as god shall direct you , we most humbly recommend your highness to the divine majesty , whom we beseech for christ his sake to do herein what shall be for his glory , the good of his church , and your endless comfort . your majesties most humble subjects , the ministers of the gospel , who desire not a disorderly innovation , but a due and godly reformation . how his majesty resented this petition , is variously reported . but sure it is ( saith fuller ) it ran the gantlop through all the prelatical party , every one giving it a lash , some with their pens , more with their tongues , and the dumb ministers as they term it found their speech most vocal against it . how many the number of those was who joined in this , and several other petitions at the same time , and were suspended , deprived , imprisoned , &c. i cannot tell ; but a great division arose , which held during the archbishop bancrofts time . bishop abbot who succeeded him in the archbishoprick of canterbury , was much calmer . several books were wrote at this time against the nonconformist , by mr. hutton , mr. rogers , dr. lovel , and dr. spark , ( who had himself been a dissenter ) ; but in the year , & , they were learnedly answered by a book of three parts , call'd , a defence of the ministers reasons for refusal of subscription . the first part was concerning the holy scriptures ; the ill translation of several texts . the second concerning the holy scriptures and apocrypha . the third was about kneeling at the sacrament . several able ministers left the nation , many others with their families were undone in it . thus conformity stood till the time of king charles the first ; some bishops being more , some less rigid in pressing the canons . but when archbishop laud came to be archbishop of canterbury , ( who succeeded abbot ) he made a new edition of impositions , to which he required conformity , saying second service at the table , setting that at the east end of the church altarwise , commanding the communion . table to be railed in , and all people to come up thither to receive the communion kneeling ; enforcing the bowing at the name of jesus . forbidding lectures , and afternoon-sermons . pressing the book of sports on the lords day . not injoining but commending bowing toward the east-end , &c. and twenty more things . what havock hese things made , is yet within the memory of many ; and what disturbance bishop wren made in suffolk , and other places , as several other bishops that were his creatures did in other diocesses , many alive know ; multitudes of ministers were again deprived and suspended . many undone in the high commission . at last in the convocation , an oath with &c. was devised , which had perfected the business in rooting out all puritan preachers , had not a parliament came and spoil'd that design . scarce any is ignorant what numbers of godly ministers and people left the nation upon this account , betwixt . and . so many as to make one of the noblest colonies at this day in the world ( that , i mean , of new-england ) besides those who fled into holland and ireland . many staid at home , and were miserably treated by courts . some lived privately , others in some quiet parts of the nation kept their station . how little the conformable interest gained by this ( though that party ruined multitudes of godly people and their families ) quickly appeared in the year . when the parliament began to espouse their cause , and give them liberty . the number of ministers , favouring nonconformity , presently appeared far greater than ever before ; so as their adversaries had a little satisfied their lusts , and malice , but not in the least promoved their cause . the people were more imbitter'd against them , and more enamoured upon painful godly ministers . and the bishops restraint of preaching , did but inflame people with the desire of it . several noblemen and worthy gentlemen in all parts of england began to be awakened , as may appear by many of their excellent speeches in the beginning of the parliament . they plainly saw , that through these extravagant actings , we lost many of our eminent ministers , multitudes of our most sober people were removed into other countries . the trade of the nation was altered , much of it carried elsewhere ; the people in many places turned ignorant brutes for want of preaching ; many turned papists , many doctrines of popery were published , colledges were fixed for romish priests , and nuns fixed , &c. a plot laid by them against the king and nation ; they judged it high time to put an end to those practices , which had caused those disorders ; and had this advantage to do it , because their conformity , whether old or new , had no further statutable authority , than was given it by the act of conformity , eliz. and the stat. eliz. c. . about the articles of faith. upon his majesties happy restauration , anno . all promised themselves a freedom from these evils which had troubled the church very near . years , from the eliz. to the year . though indeed in no great degree from the th to the th of eliz. but for about . years of queen elizabeths reign , and the whole time of king james his reign ( which was . years ) , and . years of king charles his reign , these impositions were the cause almost of all the evils under which this nation groaned . we had reason to promise our selves this immunity from his majesties declaration at bredah , and his first declaration about ecclesiastical affairs , in the year . whether the wisdom of his majesty , or that party of the house of commons , who then opposed the passing of it into an act , were greater , let the experience now of twenty years more determine , which for the most part have been years of confusion and disorder ; as to matters of religion . that failing , impositions were augmented . upon this last attempt for settlement , ministers were not only left to the bishops power to have exacted upon them , . a subscription to the . articles in the th canon . . the oath of canonical obedience , which though ancient , as established by canons in times of popery , yet we read not of , all the time of queen eliz. but . they must be ordained by bishops , though before ordained according to the ordination of all other reformed churches ( which in queen eliz. time , the statute eliz. cap. . dispensed with , and made needless . . they must assent and consent to all and every thing in the common-prayer , as now printed . . they must declare , renounce , and abjure : all this over and above , being tyed to the personal reading of the common-prayer , and use of the ceremonies , &c. the effect was , the laying aside of more than . ministers . besides the congregations which depended on these good mens ministry ; the number of quakers , who had no ministers , and of pastors of congregational churches , who had no livings , but were maintained by their people , together with the people that depended on them , and the antipaedobaptists , were not small , who all had an equal , if , not a greater prejudice to the common-prayer-book and ceremonies , &c. what could by any wise men be expected , but what we have seen , that in all places people should gather into separate congregations ? could it be expected , that such a vast number of ministers , not half of which had any thing to live on but their labours to maintain themselves , wives and families , should quietly have sate still and never preached ( if they could have imagined , that this humane law could have discharged them from any previous obligation to god ) , especially being importuned by the people whom god had committed to them ? if any had such fancies , they were very wild ones . in publick temples they must not preach ; what remained , but their own or others hired houses . what would be the event of this , was quickly seen , and an act provided against conventicles , making the punishment , fines , imprisonment , banishment , &c. what a stir this made , is sufficiently known . this commenced . and being a temporary act , determined , or . soon after this , . passed the act prohibiting noncon . ministers to inhabit in corporations . and the act about conventicles being expired , another act was made , which took place , anno . how many sober ministers and people in eight years time had been undone , by proceedings against them in the ecclesiastical courts , indictments at sessions and assizes , and by putting the first act against conventicles in execution , is sufficiently known , and too large , and sad a story to relate . the new act against conventicles ( and such a one as never before passed a parliament of england with respect to magna charta , and the fundamental liberties of the subject ) passed about . ministers and people were again prosecuted to incredible degrees , almost in all places , until his majesty gave a writ of ease by his declaration of indulgence , . that lasted but two years ; and in . the storm began again , as fierce as ever , but gradually abated till the year . about which time the parliament began to have a scent of a plot to bring in popery ; indeed they scented it first in . our worthy patriots from that time stood upon their watch , something they discerned to be in hand , and that the project was deeply laid , but on what persons to charge it they knew not , and were wholly in the dark as to the methods and particulars of it , till god , in the year . inclined dr. oates to do that ( never to be forgotten ) service to his country , at one time saving the life of his soveraign , the government of the nation , and the protestant religion , from a total extirpation , and all good protestants from a massacre . the eyes of all sober persons are at length opened to see , that an vnion of protestants is necessary . the question is , which way it shall be effected ? for my own part , i should say , any way , by which it is practicable . there are but two that can fall within the comprehension of any man of sense . . the first is by continuance of the impositions on ministers and people , rooting out all private meetings , enforcing people to come to hear the common-prayer , and to conform to the ceremonies , and hear their parish-ministers , and receive the sacrament with them . . the second is by taking off these impositione , which all agree to be of things not in their own nature necessary , but such as the magistrate may if he pleaseth relax . for the first method to unite us , it is a strange one , it aims only at uniting by destroying ; and purchases such a church-vnity as the papists boast of , who by destroying of hundred thousands of righteous men , at last made all of one mind in appearance . the experience of more then years hath taught us , that multitudes are neither to be argued , nor cudgelled into their conformity . the multitude of nonconformists hath increased all a long , in stead of abateing , even from the first beginning of the difference at francfurt , to this day ; and he is very ignorant that knoweth not , that since the fire of london , they have been almost doubled to what they were before . nor hath the warmth of many clergymen of late , in decrying the plot , or lessening it , and indeavouring to make people believe it was a nonconformist plot , a little contributed to let the world know what they are , and would be at . would any have these impositions still inforced ? what can they pursue , but the old design of reconciling us and the church of rome , in which the papists will listen to them , till they have ripen'd a design to cut their throats , as well as other mens ; but those are mightily ignorant of popish principles , that can so much as fancy a possibility of reconciliation with them , so long as we maintain the kings supremacy , or a married clergy ; so that in truth a reconciliation to the church of rome , is a thing not to be thought on by a married clergyman , ( unless he be weary of his wife and children ) nor by a loyal subject that understands sense . the vnion must therefore be effected by taking off these impositions , which now for an hundred years have produced so ill effects in this nation . it is easy to see how great the good of this would be . we should all then be known by the single name of protestants , and be hearty as one man in opposition to all popish designs . our civil , and ecolesiastical courts might possibly then be at leisure to execute the power with which they are betrusted , against papists and profane persons . sober and industrious men would be encouraged to push out in trading to their utmost . there would be no complaining in our streets for want of the ordinances of god so administred , as that concientious people might freely partake of them , without so much as a fancy that might make them call out , death is in the pot , and sit at the lords feasts without so much as a jealousy of a divine sword hanging over their heads , spoiling their spiritual appetite . in short , it would restore us to one of the greatest pieces of christian liberty , to serve the lord without fear , either of offending god whom they know in matters of worship to be a jealous god , or of being undone in their temporal concerns for the exercise of a tender conscience towards god. all good men should rejoice under the shadow of the king and parliament , and unite their prayers with chearfulness for both . what would be the evil of it ? the foundations of archbishop whitgift , and archbishop laud , and my lord chancellor hide ( the buildings upon which , hath hitherto been kept up with no less guard than the trouble of all the courts of judicature in england ) would be something shaken , and our foundations laid upon the word of god , which surely is far better ; the credit of some men , who have laid all the stress of religion upon a common-prayer-book and some ceremonies , would be thought a little impaired ; the magistrate should do nothing displeasing to god , who never required the imposition of these things at his hands : and doubtless hath been highly displeased at a great deal of force used , which hath not been good for the enforcing of them . it is , as i have said before , more than an hundred years since these impositions have been the cause of so much evil in these nations , and that not only to particular families and persons , but even to the whole nation . though our civil wars were bottomed upon questions and grievances of a civil nature : yet it is hardly imaginable the common people should have been so inflamed , had they not before been wounded in so tender a part as that of their consciences towards god. by reason of these contests , papists have been connived at , and gained a great deal of reputation , so much ( that till within these years ) it was dangerous for protestants to vie with them , for loyalty or religion . we see the issue , while they have been thus neglected , yea credited , they have been hatching the most hellish plot that was ever heard of , hardly to be parallel'd by any story . the plot hath in the bowels of it been discovered so full of blood , and cruelty and ingratude , to his most sacred majesty ; and in the defence of themselves from the imputation of it , they have been found guilty of so many lies , so much perjury and subornation , so much ungodliness and unrighteousness , that they cannot but see their catholick cause is wounded under the fifth rib , and their pretended religion not like to recover its reputation , until there be none left of this geration . they have nothing to do , but to wait a time when they may fight out their way with some probable hope of prevailing . it is certainly now high time to restore all protestants ( be their persuasions what they will ) to a just liberty in the things of god , than the want of which nothing can more dispirit good men in their duty as to a common watchfulness and defence ; for what spirit can be in them who know they shall be ruin'd by one hand or another ? i surther offer it to the consideration of our grave senators , who come up from the several parts of the nation , and must best know the complexion of it , whether those who are most against the taking of these impositions , be not ( i do not say all , but forty for one ) the persons whom several proclamations of his majesty , and several votes of two parliaments declaring it , and the several judgments upon some of the traytors given by our courts of justice , have not been able to convince , that there is any popish plot ; but in all their converse they have made it their business to deny , or lessen the plot , to defame and vilify the kings evidence , to impose upon people that it was a plot of the nonconformists , to make the dying words of the jesuits creditable . in short , by all manner of ways to turn the whole popish plot into ridicule . i do know some few ( very few others ) zealous for these impositions , have born a testimony against the papists , and freely declare their judgments about the plot , to the sense of the king , the parliament and the judges ; but as to the generality , let observation be made , and judgment accordingly given . if it be found to be that party , they are fit only to be regarded by those who pray for the good success of that execrable design , to which the continuance of these things , and a vigorous proceeding accordingly against nonconformists , will as potently conduce , as it is possible any thing should . from this short , and true account of the rise , and growth , and effects of these impositions , a good account may be given of a late authors history of separation , the smalness of it at first , and the further increase and improvements of it , which indeed did much vary , according as impositions varied , and multiplyed . those congregations which he calls separate congregations , were from the first of reformation ; but the numbers of them , and of the persons in them , was much increased after . when whitgift first brought in subscriptions to articles , and imposed them universally ; and increased yet more in . and further in bishop lauds time , and were greatest in : when the greatest number of ministers was thrown out and forbidden to preach in any publick temples . till that time nonconformist ministers might preach publickly , and most of them did so in the years , . to : which is the true reason that in those years there were so few private meetings , the people could in publick temples hear their ministers as lecturers , yet in those times there were private meetings ; and notwithstanding all the fury some bishops used , i remember bishop hall in a speech made to the parliament or . complain'd of an hundred such meetings to be in london alone . nor is it any wonder if in near forty years time , good people have gained a little more light in matters of worship and discipline , and discerned the unlawfulness of some things in both , which were not at that time discerned . the questions relating to both , have been more ventilated since the year . than ever they were before , since the reformation . so as a telling of the world , how few dissenters were at first , and in how few things they dissented , is very insignificant to any purpose but the loading of present dissenters with an odium from those ignorant and passionate persons who do not understand , that they had not half so much reason to dissent then , as they have had since , and now have ; and that the present conformity required of ministers , is twice more than was formerly required . and for the people , their nonconformity in a greater degree must also be attributed to the further light they have gained as to matters of worship and discipline , the true nature and order of churches , together with the outing of their pastors , they being no such notions as all can swallow , that the forbidding godly ministers to preach by an humane law , dissolves the pastoral relation of pastors to their churches . or , that all within the bounds of a parish , are obliged to be members of the church in that place ; or are therefore so , because they dwell within the bounds of such places . some observe , that most men have some opportunities in their life-time offered them by the providence of god , which if they lay hold of , they make them happy in the good things of this life . the like fate possibly attends nations . we had one opportunity offered us in q elizabeths time , when reformation might have been settled without these ingrateful impositions . this was lost through the fiery zeal of the then archbishp , and brought us into near years troubles . we had a second in the beginning of king james his time ; but the same man , and his successor archbishop bancroft &c. again hindred our seeing what concerned our peace . we had a third opportunity upon his majesties restauration ; by whose means it was then hindred , all know . we have since met with years trouble more , or very nigh . we have a fourth before us at this time , upon the discovery of this execrable popish plot. when god calleth us under the penalty of all that is dear unto us , to seek peace amongst our selves , ( for our saviour hath told us , a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand ) . all other proposals for union , but the abating those impositions which divide us , are meer idle toys and vanities . good men cannot love peace so well , as to purchase it by submission to things which they judge sinful . if we should lose this also , i shall only say , the interpretation be to those that hate us , and to the enemies of our god. we may look for good , but no good will come . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e see the troubles at francfort , p. , . this makes it evident , that the conference at hampton-court , this year , was not in the name of all nonconformists , but only the personal act of or men noncon . toleration discuss'd, in two dialogues i. betwixt a conformist, and a non-conformist ... ii. betwixt a presbyterian, and an independent ... l'estrange, roger, sir, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) toleration discuss'd, in two dialogues i. betwixt a conformist, and a non-conformist ... ii. betwixt a presbyterian, and an independent ... l'estrange, roger, sir, - . [ ], p. printed by e.c. and a.c. for henry brome ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, newyork. table of contents: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- england. toleration. freedom of religion -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion toleration discuss'd ; in two dialogues . i. betwixt a conformist , and a non-conformist ; laying open the impiety , and danger of a general liberty . ii. betwixt a presbyterian , and an independent ; concluding , upon an impartial examination of their respective practises , and opinions , in favour of the independent . vaevobis , hypocritae ! london , printed by e. c. and a. c. for henry brome at the gun in ludgate-street , at the west end of st. paul's . . to the reader . the contents . section i. universal toleration too wide , and unlawful . page sect . ii. limited toleration too narrow , and disobliging to the excluded party . sect . iii. no toleration to be admitted , but with the allowance of the chief magistrate . sect . iv. the bounds of toleration . and the error of making fundamentals and non fundamentals to be the measure of it . sect . v. the common arguments for toleration , examined . sect . vi. toleration undermines the law , and causes confusion both in church , and state. page sect . vii . the non-conformist's plea for toleration , upon reason of state . sect . viii . the non-conformist's plea for toleration , from the merits of the party . sect . ix . the non-conformist's plea for toleration , from the innocence , and modesty of their opinions and practises . sect . x. the non-conformists demand a toleration , which is neither intelligible in the whole , nor practicable so far as it may be understood . sect . xi . the non-conformists demand a toleration , for no body knows whom , or what . sect . xii . the conjunct importunity of the non-conformists for a toleration , is not grounded upon matter of conscience . sect . xiii . the conjunct importunity of the non-conformists for a toleration , is a manifest confederacy . sect . xiv . the non-conformists joynt-pretenses for a toleration , overthrown , by the evidence of their joynt-arguments , professions , and practises against it . sect . xv. the non-conformists joynt complaints of hard measure , and persecution , confronted with their own joynt-proceedings . sect . xvi . the non-conformists tell us , that liberty of conscience is the common interest of this kingdom ; but reason and experience tell us the contrary . sect . xvii . this kingdom has been still the worse for indulging the non-conformists , and the party never the better . which evinces , that uniformity is the true interest of this government , and not toleration . sect . xviii . the party of scrupulous , and conscientious non-conformists , is neither numerous , nor dangerous . pag. sect . xix . the non-conformists appeal , from the government , and discipline of the church of england , to the judgment , and practise of the reformed churches beyond the seas ; examined , and submitted to censure . sect . xx. the non-confotmists exceptions to our publique way of worship , found guilty of great impiety , and error . sect . xxi . whatsoever god hath left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . sect . xxii . no end of controversie , without a final and unaccomptable judge , from whose sentence there shall be no appeal . sect . xxiii . the three great judges of mankind , are god , magistrates , and conscience . sect . xxiv . the church of england charges the non-conformists with schism , and the non-conformists charge those of the church with scandal . the matter is taken into debate . page toleration discuss'd , betwixt a presbyterian , and an independent . sect . xxv . an enquiry , upon a short , and impartial survey of the rise , progress , and issue of the war , raised by the two houses in . whether were more criminal , the presbyterians , or the independents . sect . xxvi . what party soever demands a toleration , and yet mainteins , that it is destructive both of church , and state , to grant one , is an enemy to both . sect . xxvii . in case of a toleration , or indulgence to be granted , whether has the fairer preten se to it ; the classical way of the presbyterians , or the congregational way of the independents ; in respect of their form of government ? page sect . xxviii . whether may be better tolerated in this kingdom , the presbyterians , or the independents ; in respect of their principles , and ordinary proceedings ? debated , first , with relation to his majesties person , and authority . sect . xxix . the question of toleration , betwixt presbytery , and independency ; debated , with regard to the foundation , and execution of the law . sect . xxx . the question of toleration , betwixt presbytery , and independency , debated , with a regard to the rights , liberties , and advantages of the people . toleration discuss'd , by way of dialogue betwixt a conformist , and a non-conformist . conformist . liberty of conscience , or , no liberty of conscience , is the question . what is conscience ? non-conformist . conscience is a iudicium hominis de semetipso , prout subjicitur iudicio dei. b the judgment that a man makes of himself and his actions , with reference to the future judgment of god. or otherwise , c it is an ability in the understanding of man , by a reflex act to judge of himself in all he does , as to his acceptance , or rejection with god. rutherford makes it to be d a power of the practical understanding , according to which the man is obliged and directed to give judgment of himself ; that is , of his state and condition , and of all his actions , inclinations , thoughts , and words . c. if this be conscience , then liberty of conscience is a liberty of a man's iudging of himself , and his actions , with reference to the future iudgment of god. n. c. right : but then he is bound likewise to practise according to that judgment , and to worship god according to the light and understanding which he hath , of what is that worship which is acceptable with him , in matter and manner , and not otherwise . c. so that your liberty of conscience is now come to liberty of practise . indeed i could wish that the advocates for liberty would be a little more candid in this business . they take wonderful pains ( many of them ) to prove , that conscience cannot be forc'd ; it is out of the reach of humane power ; god never appointed any iudge of it ; shall any man pretend to make me believe , that which i cannot believe ? ( and the like ) pressing the argument , as if that were the very pinch of the case , which is just nothing at all to the point in controversie . it is obvious to common reason , that this suggestion cannot but create very dangerous and unquiet thoughts in the people : for if they be denied liberty of conscience ( in the plain and honest english of it ) they suffer under the most barbarous , and ridiculous persecution , that ever yet appear'd upon the face of the earth . but on the other side , if their claim be stretch't to liberty of practise , it seems not only unreasonable , but utterly inconsistent , both with christianity it self , and the publique peace . section i. universal toleration too wide , and unlawful . c. liberty of conscience ( as you have stated it ) is an universal toleration for people to say and do what they please , under the warrant and pretext of conscience . n. c. that is to say , in matters properly the subject of conscience , with reference to the future judgment of god. c. by this rule , pagans are to be tolerated as well as christians : for they have consciences as well as we : they are convinc'd , that there is a god ; and that that god ought to be worship't ; and may plead for the same freedom , in the way and manner of their proceeding . n. c. but paganism is not within the pale of the question . c. why then , no more is conscience . if you say , they are in the wrong , and so debar them the exercise of their opinion , because of the error of it , your exception lies to the error , n●…t to the conscience ; and may be turn'd upon your selves : for they say as much of you ; and have as much right to condemn you , as you them : neither have you any more right to be judges in your own case , then they in theirs . n. c. well , but we have a law to iudge our selves by . c. and so have they too : for , they without a law , do by nature the things contained in the law , and are a law unto themselves . n. c. but how can that law-have any regard to the future judgment of god , when they deny the immortality of the soul : c. there is a future iudgment of god in this life , as well as in the next : and the conscience that hath no light at all of another world , is not yet without apprehensions of divine vengeance in this. raro antecedentem scelestum deseruit pede poena claudo . you 'l be as much to seek now , if you restrain your argument to christianity ; for you must either prove , that there are no erroneous consciences among christinas ; or , that error of conscience is no sin ; or else , that sin may be tolerated . n. c. there is no doubt but there are erroneous consciences ; and it is as clear that sin is not to be tolerated : but i do not take every error of conscience to be a sin ( understand me of consciences labouring under an invincible ignorance . ) c. it is very true , that as to the formality of sin , which is the obliquity of the will , an error of conscience under an invincible ignorance is no sin : but sin materially considered , is the transgression of the divine law ; and conscience it self becomes sinful , when it dictates against that law. n. c. can there be any sin without assent ; or any assent without knowledge ; or any knowledge in a case of invincible ignorance ? the transgression of the law implies the knowledg of it , or at least the possibility of knowing it ; without which , it has not the nature of a law , as to me . [ the conditions requisite to a rule are these : it must be certain ; and it must be known . if it be not certain , it is no rule ; if it be not known , it is no rule to us. ] i had not known sin , but by the law ( says the text ) and in another place , where there is no law , there is no transgression . from whence the deduction is clear , that sin is not barely the transgression of a law , but the transgression of a known law ; the inconformity of the will to the understanding . c. the perversness of the will being a sin , does not hinder the enormity of the iudgment to be so too . [ until the law , sin was in the world ; but sin is not imputed , when there is no law. ] in few words , the word of god is the rule of truth , and all disproportion to that rule is error : god's revealed will is the measure of righteousness ; and all disproportion to that measure is sin. now the question is not , whether imputed , or no ; but , whether a sin , or no : and you cannot make error of conscience to be no sin , without making the word of god to be no rule . n. c. i do not deny , but it is a sin as to the law ; but it is none as to the person ; it is none constructively , with him that accepts the will for the deed. c. can you imagine that any condition in the delinquent can operate upon the force and equity of the law ? because god spares the offender , shall man therefore tolerate the offence ? david was pronounced a man after god's own heart ; shall authority therefore grant a license to murder and adultery ? n. c. what is david's case to ours ? you instance in sins of presumpt●…on , and the question is touching sins of ignorance . c. i was a blasphemer , a persecutor , and injurious ( says st. paul ) but i obtain'd mercy ( he does not say approbation ) because i did it in ignorance and unbeleif . again , the magistrate has a conscience , as well as the subject . it may be ignorance in him that commits the sin , and yet presumption in him that suffers it . briefly , in pleading for all opinions , you plead for all heresies , and for the establishment of wickedness by a law. what swarms of anabaptists , brownists , familists , antinomians , anti-scripturists , anti-trinitarians , enthusiasts ( and what not ? ) have started up even in our days , under the protection of liberty of conscience ? what blasphemous and desperate opinions , to the subversion both of faith and government ! where 's the authority of the scriptures , and the reverence of religion , when every man shall make a bible of his conscience , divide the holy ghost against it self , and dash one text upon another ? he that has a mind to rake further in this puddle , let him read edwards his gangraena , bayly's disswasive , paget's haeresiography , &c. to pass now from opinions , to practices . the liberty you challenge , opens a door to all sorts of villany and outrage imaginable ; to rapine , murder , rebellion , king-killing . n. c. as if any man that has a conscience of his own , or knows what conscience is , could give entertainment to so fond an imagination , as to suppose , that god at the last day will approve of murders , seditions , and the like evils : since what is evil in it self , and against the light of nature , there is no direction unto it , no approbation of it from conscience in the least . c. but what will this amount to ? when , first , every man's word shall be taken for his own conscience : and secondly , that conscience pleaded in defence of his actions . that which you stile murther , and sedition , he 'll tell you is only a gospel-reformation , the destroying of the hittites and the amorites , &c. so that you are never the better for tying a man up to the light of nature in his actions , if you leave him at liberty in his creed : for there is not that impiety in the world , but he 'll give you a text for it . the adversaries of god , that refuse to enter into a holy covenant with the lord , and submit themselves to christ's scepter , may be sequestred and plundered , without the imputation of rapine ; for it is written , the meek shall inherit the earth : and it is no more then god's people the israelites did to the egyptians . nay , if they be refractary , they may be put to death too , without murder , [ those mine enemies , which would not that i should reign over them , bring hither , and slay them before me . ] if any man has a spight at the church , it is but calling it antichristian , and mr. case shall give him a commission to take this agag , and hew it in pieces before the lord. taking up arms against the government , is helping the lord against the mighty . and king-killing it self , is justified by the example of ehud to eglon. n. c. but do you believe any man so mad , as to take these extravagances for impulses of conscience ? c. or rather , is not he madder that doubts it ? considering the evidences we have both from story and experience , and the very authority of scripture it self , in favour of believing it . does not our saviour foretell us of false christs , and false prophets , that shall arise and deceive many ; yea , if it were possible , the very elect ? parties are engag'd in all sorts of abomination , under the masque of conscience . those of the league in flanders , . under maximilian , bound themselves by oath , to cast off the yoke of government , and to kill and slay all opposers ; but with such regard to religion ( i warrant ye ) that every member of that confederacy was to say five ave maryes and pater nosters daily , for a blessing upon the undertaking . the holy league at peronne , under henry the third of france , was for the glory of god too , and the preservation of the king : what horrible effects it produced , i need not tell you . sleydan reckons upon fifty thousand slain in one summer , in the boores rebellion in germany , . and charges the tumult upon seditious preachers , whereof muncer was chief . i shall not need to mind you of the damned villanies that were acted by muncer , phifer , ( beold , or ) iohn of leyden , rottman , knipperdolling , kippenbroke , iohn matthias , and the rest of that gang , under the imposture of inspiration , and conscience : their sacking and burning of towns , rapes , and massacres : and all this under the pretense of god's command , and the direction of his holy spirit . nay , so strongly was the deluded multitude possest with the doctrine and ways of their false prophets , that the muncerians , upon the charge of the landtzgrave of hesse , stood stone still , without striking a blow ; calling upon the holy ghost to their succour ( as muncer had promised them ) till they were all routed and cut off . was it not a holy father , and the prior of the convent ( one of the heads of the league ) that confirm'd clement in his purpose of murthering harry the third of france ? for his encouragement , they assur'd him , that if he out-liv'd the fact , he should be a cardinal ; if he dy'd , a saint . what was it again that originally disposed this monster to that cursed act ? stimolato dalle predicationi , che giournallmente sentiva fare contra henrico di valois , nominato il persecutore della fede , & il tyranno . seditious sermons against the king , as a persecutor of the faith , and a tyrant . see in the same author , the confession of iohn castle , concerning his attempt upon harry the great . he had been brought up in the jesuites school , and instructed , that it was not only lawful , but meritorious , to destroy harry of bourbon , that revolted heretique , and persecutor of the holy church . [ esaminato con le solite forme , confesso liberamente , &c. ] what was it that animated ravillac to his hellish practise upon that brave prince ? but ( by his own confession ) a discourse of mariana's , de rege , & regis institutione . it was a divine instinct too , that mov'd balthasar gerard to murther the prince of aurange . [ divino tantùm instinctu , id à se patratum constanter affirmabat , diu tortus . ] to conclude now with that fresh and execrable instance here at home , upon the person of the late king : it was the pulpit that started the quarrel ; the pulpit that enflam'd it ; the pulpit that christen'd it god's cause ; the pulpit that conjur'd the people into a covenant to defend it ; the pulpit that blasted the king , that pursu'd him , that prest the putting of him to death ; and the pulpit that applauded it when it was done . and how was all this effected ? ( i beseech ye ) but by imposing upon the weak and inconsiderate multitude , errors for truths ; by perverting of scriptures ; and by these arts , moulding the passions and the consciences of the people to the interest of a tumultuary design . these are the fruits of the toleration you demand . reflect soberly upon what has been said ; and tell me , do you think such a toleration either fit for you to ask , or for authority to grant ? n. c. the truth is , in this latitude there may be great inconveniences : and yet methinks , 't is pitty ( in cases of some honest mistakes ) that a good man should be punished for not being a wise man. c. and were it not a greater pitty , do ye think , for a state to keep no check upon crafty knaves , for fear of disobliging some well-meaning fools ? as to the sparing of the man , i wish it could be done , even where it were impious to give quarter to the opinion : but how shall we separate the errour from the person , so as to make a general law take notice of it ? it were irreligious to tolerate both , and it seems to me impossible to sever them . if you your self now can either prove the former to be lawful ( that is , to do evil , that good may come of it ) or the latter to be practicable , i 'le agree with you for a general toleration : if not , i hope you 'l joyn with me against it . n. c. i am not for a toleration ( as i told you ) against the light of nature ; nor would i have any pretense of conscience admitted , that leads to the destruction of the magistrate , and the disturbance of the government . c. that is to say , you will content your self with a limited toleration : which , i fear , upon the debate , will prove as much too narrow for you , as the other was too wide . sect . ii. limited toleration too narrow , and disobliging to the excluded party . c. by a limited toleration we may understand a legal grant of freedom and immunity , in matters of religion , to persons of such and such perswasions , and to no others . n. c. or , if you please , an exemption from the lash of the act of uniformity . c. you say something , if this would do the work. but to dissolve a solemn law , for the satisfaction of some particulars , and at last leave the people worse then we found them , were certainly a gross oversight . however , what 's your quarrel to it ? n. c. i think it a great cruelty to confine a multitude of differing judgments to the same rule , and to punish a consciencious people for those disagreements , which they can neither avoid , nor relinquish . c. why will you practise that cruelty your selves then , which you condemn in others ? for limited toleration , is an act of uniformity to those that are excluded . they that are within the comprehension , will be well enough : but what will become of them that are left out ? who have consciences as well as their fellows , and as good a title to an indulgence , as those that are taken in . upon a fair view of the matter , you can neither admit all , without offence to your conscience ; nor leave out any , without a cheque to your argument . n. c. and yet i am perswaded a limited toleration would give abundant satisfaction . c. suppose you had it , and your self one of the rejected party : are not you as well now , without any toleration at all , as you would be then , without receiving any benefit by it ? n. c. to deal freely , i would not willingly be excluded . c. and is not that every man's case , as well as yours ? a limited toleration must exclude some , and why not you , as well as another ? or indeed , why should not all be tolerated , as well as any ? they can no more abandon their opinions , then you yours : and your ways are just the same grievances to them , which ( if you may be credited ) ours are to you. so that most undeniably , the plea of the nonconformists upon the point of conscience , is all alike : and since none of them have more right to an indulgence , one then another , why should any party of them expect more favour ; to the exclusion and disobligation of the rest ? n. c. but are not some opinions more tolerable then others ? do you put no difference betwixt truth and errour ? betwixt points fundamental and non-fundamental ? betwixt the very basis of christianity , and the superstructure ? in fine , betwixt such principles as affect order and publique agreement , and others that flow naturally into loosness and confusion ? c. without dispute , some opinions and principles are more allowable then others : but where lieth the right of allowing , or rejrcting ? let this be first examined , and then we 'l advise upon the opinions , and principles themselves , what may be allow'd , and what not. sect . iii. no toleration to be admitted but with the allowance of the chief magistrate . c. we are agreed , first , that an universal toleration ( implying a license to all sorts of wickedness ) is not upon any terms to be admitted . secondly , that a limited toleration ( being a grant of favour to some , and exclusive of others ) must needs lay a disobligation upon the excluded party . the next point will be , where to place the power of permitting , or refusing ; and from thence we shall pass to an inquiry into the bounds and limits of such a toleration as may be warrantable : which being once settled , we are to see how far the pretenses and qualifications of the parties concern'd will suit with those measures . n. c. grant us but an indulgence to dissenters of sound faith , and good life ; we ask no more . let nothing be imposed upon us that is grievous to our consciences on the one hand , and we shall never desire a toleration of any thing that is justly offensive to church or state on the other . c. but what if the dissenters shall call that sound doctrine , which the church defines heresie ? what if the subject shall account that imposition grievous , which the magistrate thinks n●…cessary ? or , that liberty consciencious , which the governour esteems unlawful ? who shall over-rule ? if the subject , it follows then , that the magistrate is obliged to toler●…te whatsoever the subject shall judge himself obliged to do : and this carries us back into a general toleration . if the magistrate over-rule , your plea of conscience is out of doors : and it is at his choice , what sorts of dissenters to indulge ; and , whether any , or none , at his pleasure . n. c. the world , you know , is as much divided about the power of the civil magistrate in matters of religion , as about any other part ( perchance ) of our debate . c. we shall discourse that more at large elsewhere . but however , as to this particular , let us come to a present settlement , that we may clear our way as we go . if you make the people judges of what is fit to be tolerated , first , ( as i said before ) you are upon the old rock of universal toleration ; for ( right or wrong ) every man will stick to the freedom of his own way . secondly , you lay the foundation of a quarrel never to be reconciled . you shall have as many factions , as men ; as many religions , as fancies ; and every dissenter shall be both a party , and a iudge . to imagine an agreement betwixt the magistrate and the multitude , by the common consent of both ; were to suppose an accommodation betwixt heaven and hell , betwixt light and darkness ; which are every jot as capable of it , as several of the differences now before us . and for an umpire in the case , you can pretend to none . n. c. pardon me : we have the word of god to repair to , in what concerns sound faith ; and the light of nature for our guide , in the duties of good life . c. this is to ●…e that which was the ground of the first controversie , the umpire of the second . for what is the original of all our grand disagreements , but ( as st. augustine has it ) ●…onae scripturae male-intellectae ; good scriptures ill understood ? and we are never the nearer an accord for the reading of them , without another moderator to set us right in the meaning of them. neither is the light of nature any more exempt from false glosses and misconstructions , then the bible . upon the whole matter , you see the absurdities and inconveniences that follow upon placing the judgment and direction of ordering these matters of difference , any where else then in the magistrate : whose duty and interest it is , both as a christian and as a ruler , to put an end to these impious contentions , by such rules and establishments as may secure the foundations both of religion and government . n c. this would do well , if men were agreed upon those rules : but several men , we see , have uarious apprehensions of the self same thing ; and that which one man takes for a rule , another counts an error . c. you are at your ●…niversal toleration again : but pray mark the consequences of this way of reasoning : be●…ause the multitude cannot agree upon a rule , there shall be none at all . pursue this argument , and there shall be no lair , no religion , no scripture , no truth , left in the world. because men differ , which is the true religion . they disagree about the doctrine of the bible . that which is truth to one man , is heresie to another . and never was there any law that pleased all people . authority says , worship thus , or so : the libertine cries , no , 't is a confinement of the spirit ; an invention of man ; a making of that necessary which god left free ; a scandal to tender consciences , &c. and here is authority concluded as to the manner of worship . so for the time. how do they know when christ was born , crucified , or raised from the dead . the churches fasting-days they make their iubile's . videas hodie quosdam ( says calvin ) quibus sua libertas non videtur consistere , nisi per esum carnium die veneris in ejus possessionem venerint . we have many now adays , that would look upon their liberty as good as forfeited , if they should not maintain their title to it , by eating flesh on fasting-days . 't is the same thing as to the place . command them to church , they will tell you , there is no inherent holiness in the walls : the hearts of the saints are the temples of the lord : is not god to be found in a parlour , as well as in a steeple-house ? finally , what have they to say for all this , but that this is one man's judgment , that another's ? this or that may be indifferent to you , but not to me . to conclude , what one man urges , all may ; and in all cases , as well as in any : which has brought us once again to an indeterminable liberty ; the last resort of all the champions of your cause , if they be followed home . now if you can assign any other arbitrator of this matter then the civil power , do it : if you cannot , let us proceed . n. c. go forward then . sect . iv. th●… bounds of toleration . and the error of making fundamentals and non-fundamentals to be the measure of it . c. in the question of toleration ( says a learned prelate ) the foundation of faith , good life , and government is to be secured : wherein is comprised a provision and care , that we may live as christians toward god , as members of a community toward one another , and as loyal subjects toward our sovereign . if you 'l take this for the standard of your toleration , we have no more to do , but to apply matters in controversie to the rules of christianity , good manners , and government ; and to entertein or reject all pretensions , thereafter as we find them agreeable , or repugnant , to religion , morality , and society . n. c. uery well stated truly , i think . c. all the danger is , the falling to pieces again , when we come to bring this and that to the test. for if we differ at last upon the application of particular points , and actions , to the general heads of faith , and government already laid down and agreed upon , we shall yet lose our selves in uncertainty , and confusion . n. c. there will be no fear of that , if we tye up our selves to fundamentals . c. what do you mean by fundamentals ? n. c. there are fundamentals of faith , that bind us as we are christians ; and there are fundamentals of practice , that oblige us as we are members of a community . from these fundamentals there lies no appeal to conscience . in other matters ( which we look upon as non-fundamental ) we think it reasonable to desire a toleration . c. this distinction has a fair appearance ; but there is no trusting to it . first , it proposes a thing neither practicable , nor reasonable ; which is , the uniting of all people under one common bond of fundamentals . what possibility is there of attaining such an agreement , among so many insuperable diversities of judgment , as reign in mankind ? insomuch , that what is a fundamental truth to one , is a fundamental error to another ; and every man is ready to abide the faggot for his own opinion . it is also very unreasonable to exact it . god almighty does not require the same fundamentals from all men alike ; but much from him to whom much is given , and little from him , to whom little : and from all , according to their differing degrees , and measures , of grace , and knowledg . you will likewise find your self under great uncertainty about the stating of your fundamentals : for divers circumstances , of little , or no value in themselves , become fundamental in respect of their consequences . as for instance ; that christ died for sinners , i presume shall be one article of your faith : but whether upon mount calvary , or some other part of the neighbourhood , seems of no great moment , as to the main of our salvation . and yet he that denies , that our saviour suffer'd upon mount calvary , puts as great an affront upon the veracity of the holy ghost in the gospel , as he which denies that he suffer'd upon the cross. n. c. i give it for granted , that from some , more is required ; from others , less : in proportion to their differing gifts and graces . but then there are some principles , so essential to christianity , and so clear in themselves , as to admit of no dispute . c. saving that grand foundation of our faith , that iesus christ is come in the flesh ; and that whosoever confesses , that iesus christ is the son of god , god dwelleth in him , and he in god. ( saving ( i say ) that radical principle , which if we disbelieve , we are no longer christians ) there is scarce one point that has not been subjected to a controversie . if you reduce your fundamentals to this scantling , your creed will lie in a very narrow compass : but your toleration will be large enough , if you are at liberty for the rest . touching the clearness of them , i do not comprehend it : for supernatural truths hold no proportion at all with the ordinary motions of humane reason . if they be so clear , tell us , what they are ; where we shall look for them ; and how we shall know them when we have found them . n c. where should we look for the foundation of our faith , but in the new-testament of jesus christ ? c. but still we do not all read the bible with the same spectacles . to draw to an issue ; generals conclude nothing , so long as we are left at freedom to wrangle about particulars ; and you will find much surer footing upon the foundations of establish'd law , then upon the whimseys of popular speculation . to my thinking , the doctrine and discipline of the church of england , as it is settled by acts of parliament , with other legal constitutions , for the peace , and order of the government , are every whit as competent a provision for the good of the publique , as your new fundamentals . n. c. the point is not ( as you seem to understand it ) a competition between our fundamentals of notion , and yours of law : but an inquiry concerning the limits of a iustistable toleration . c. very good : and you refer us to your distinction of fundamentals and non-fundamentals , as to a rule , how far we are at liberty , and wherein we are bounded . but this will not do the work ; and i have spent the more words about it , because i find this distinction the ordinary retreat of your party . the truth of it is , there 's not one of a hundred of you , but takes this question by the wrong handle . you make it a question of conscience , and religion , what may be tolerated , and what not : whereas the thing falls properly under a consideration of state. in matters not to be tolerated ( as in articles of religion ) the magistrate is positively bound up ; in other cases , he may chuse , whether he will tolerate , or restrain ; that is to say , with a perpetual regard to the q●…iet , and security of the publique . where particulars may be relieved , without inconvenience to communities , it is well : but otherwise , private consciences weigh little in the scale against political societies : and toleration is only so far allowable , as it complies with the necessities , and ends of government . n. c. that is to say ( according to your first resolution ) the foundation of faith , good life , and government is to be secured : whe●…ein i am content to close with you ; though there are some , that believe the right of toleration may be defended without any restrictions . c. for discourse sake , pray try , what you can make on 't , either with , or without . sect . v. the common arguments for toleration , examined . n. c. no man under the gospel ought to be compell'd to believe anything ; and if not to believe , then not to practise . c. rutherford says well to this point : that the magistrate is not to force men positively to external worship ; but negatively , to punish acts of false worship , and omissions of external performances of worship , as of ill example to others : not commanding outward performances , as service to god ; but forbidding omissions of them , as destructive to m●…n . n. c. it is a strange absurdity to force men , against their own light , to be guided by others , unless we are sure , we cannot mistake . c. but were it not a stranger absurdity , to leave every man at liberty to set up a new light of his own ; and then to subject the united light of the nation ( which is the law ) to the scatter'd lights of private persons ? n. c. but does not one man see that sometimes , which a thousand may miss ? c. and because this is possible , is the odds therefore upon one against a thousand ? or if so , why may not the church be in the right against the people , as well as any particular of the people , against the church , and the rest ? this is most certain , that of a thousand differing opinions , there can be but one right : and a toleration upon your supposal , is sure to set up nine hundred ninety nine errors : which is the ready way to bring people to cutting of throats for opinions . n. c. if a magistrate may punish all that his conscience says are in the wrong , then all persecutors are in the right . c. men are not punish't for their consciences , but for their actions : and if a magistrate may not restrain liberty of action , then all rebellions are in the right . n. c. the magistrate is appointed to see that executed which christ hath appointed in religion ; and punctually ty'd up , neither to add , nor to diminish , either in the matter , or in the manner . the manner christ hath appointed , being as positively obliging as the matter . c. if it be the magistrate's duty to see christ's appointments in religion executed , in matter , and manner , without adding , or diminishing : first , you must allow him to be a competent judge of what christ hath appointed ; ( for otherwise his commission directs him to do he knows no : what. ) secondly , according to your argument , there is but one way of worship , warrantable ; which puts a bar unto any sort of toleration whatsoever . n. c. if the magistrate has any power over the consciences of his people , how came he by it ? for he that hath no other , then the light of nature , hath as much power , as if he were christian ; and by becoming christian hath no addition of power to what he had before . c. it is true , that christianity ( as you put the case ) does not confer upon the magistrate any new power ; but it lays upon him an additional obligation of duty . while his conscience was pagan , he took his measures only from humane prudence , and the light of nature . but upon his conversion , he falls under the dictate of a conscience that is further , and otherwise enlighten'd : and b●…comes answerable , as well for the establishing , securing , and promoting of christianity , as for the political conservation of his people , and government . n. c. persecution may make hypocrites , but not converts . c. you may say the same thing of the law , in other cases . that makes many men honest in appearance , for fear of punishment ; that are yet rotten at heart . nay , i am further perswaded , that where severity makes one hypocrite , it cures a hundred . for so long as there is either profit , or credit to be got , by th●… disguise of religion , all men of corrupt principles , and designs will flow into the party . but when that temptation to hypocrisie shall be removed ; and that they find nothing to be gotten by the imposture , but punishment , and disgrace , they will soon betake themselves to a more regular station in the government . many a counterfeit cripple has been cured with a dog-whip . n. c. are heresies to be extirpated , and truth to be propagated by the sword , or by the word ? c. if it be the penalty you oppose ; where the word will not do , you your selves fly to censures , and excommunications , which are punishments , as well as corporal , and pecuniary inflictions ; and as little instructive . but you are upon a mistake : the civil power does not so much pretend to the recovery of those that are out of the way , as to the saving of the rest : nor does it properly punish any man , as an heretic , but as a seducer . do you but let the king's subjects alone , and he 'l never trouble himself to impose upon your consciences . if it reaches not wickedness in the heart , it provides yet against the infection of it , and the scandal ; by keeping the hands , and tongues of licentious people in order . n. c. i do not deny , but that a rigorous law may have some profitable influence upon the looser sort : yet still it falls heavy upon the innocent , as well as upon the guilty . to know , believe , or profess are not in our power : and shall a man be punish't for want of grace , or understanding ? c. though it is not in our power to know , and believe , as we please ; yet to forbear publishing of our thoughts , and acting in relation to them , is unquestionably in our power . neither is any man to be punish't for want of grace , or understanding : but yet it will be ill , if those defects may pass for an excuse . all manner of impiety should then go scot-free : for without doubt , let fools be priviledged , and all knaves shall pretend ignorance . n. c. no man can call iesus the christ , but by the holy ghost : will you punish any man for not having the holy ghost ? c. no man that hath the holy ghost , will deny iesus to be the christ : will you punish any man for denying iesus to be christ ; that is to say , for not having the holy ghost ? n. c. he that acts against his conscience , sins . c. and so does he that acts by it , if in error . n. c. every man is true to god , that is true to his conscience , though it be erroneous . c. will it not then follow , that a man may worship the sun , or the moon , and yet be true to god , if that worship be according to his conscience ? to clear this point ; some consciences are erroneous upon the score of invincible ignorance ; and that insuperable frailty is a fair excuse : but some consciences again are erroneous for want of due care , search , and enquiry ; others , out of pertinacy : and there is no plea to be admitted for these consciences . n. c. how do you know , but you may persecute god , in the conscience of a true believer , as st. paul did , before his conversion ? c. if i may turn your own reason against your self , i may do it , and yet be true to god ; if in so doing , i am true to my conscience . but still you confound conscience , and practise ; whereas the civil magistrate pretends to no sort of authority , or dominion over the conscience . and your objection is of as little force any other way : for the magistrate is no more infallible in one case , then in another ; and may as well dread the persecuting of god , in the conscience of a murderer , or any other criminal , as in that of an heretick . n. c. i think we have enough : but it may be , this toleration will please us better in the exercise , then it does in the speculation . c. what hinders then , but we may try it that way too ? sect . vi. toleration undermines the law , and causes confusion both in church and state. n. c. why may not a toleration do as well here , as in france ? c. how do you mean ? would you have his majesty of great-britain , tolerate roman-catholicks here , as his most christian majesty does protestants in france ? n. c. you speak as if none were to be tolerated but papists . c. not i truly : but so it must be , if you 'l have your toleration after the french fashion . can you shew me that any non-conforming roman catholicks are tolerated there ? nay ; or that those of the religion do subdivide , or break communion among themselves ? such an instance might stand you in some stead . n. c. but is it not more , to tolerate a forreign r●…ligion , then to indulge your own ? to permit freedom of worship to those you repute hereticks , then to relate a little towards your orthodox friends ? c. the question is not , in matter of religion , whether to favour sound faith , or heresie ; but in reason of state , whether is more advisable , to tolerate the exercise of quite a different religion ; or a separation from the church-order establish't . alas ! in several religions ( and especially where the professors are divided by mutual prejudice , and principles of strong opposition , ( as in this case too much they are ) there 's no great fear of gathering , and engaging parties , to the disturbance of the publick peace . there is a great gulf ( as he says ) betwixt them . and men do not usually start from one extreme to another , at a leap ; but to tolerate one church within another , is to authorize a dissolution of the government both ecclesiastical , and civil . and the defection is the more dangerous , because it is almost insensible . as many as will leave you , may ; and every dissenter is double : one lost , to the government ; another gain'd , to the schism : which will quickly bring down authority to the mercy of the people . in fine , by toleration , a kingdom is divided against ie self , and c●…nnot stand . n. c. when you have taken breath , do me the favour to make out what you say . c. the demand of a toleration , is in it self , the condemnation of an establish't law ; and not without hard reflexions neither , both upon the equity , and prudence of the law makers . so that , at first dash , here is the law unhing'd : for if any one law may le question'd by the multitude , the consequence reaches to all the rest. n. c. we do not question , either the prudence of the law-makers ; or the general equity of the constitution . only where god hath not given us consciences suitable to the rule , we humbly desire such a rule , as may comply with our consciences . c. would you have a law that shall comply with all consciences ? god almighty himself never made a law that pleased all people . n. c. it would be well then , that you should bring all men to the same mind , before you force them to the same rule . c. but it would be ill , if there should be no rule at all , till we had found out one that all people should say amen to . n. c. we do not ask the vacating of a law , but the widening of it . c. why then you ask a worse thing ; for it were much better for the publique , totally to vacate a good law , then to suffer a contempt , even upon a bad one. if the reason of such or such a law be gone , repeal the law. but to let the obligation fall , and the law stand , seems to be a soloecism in government . you should consider , that laws are not made for particulars ; but framed with a regard to the community : and they ought to stand firm , and inexorable . if once they come to hearken to popular expostulations , and to side with by-interests , the reverence of government is shaken . n. c. but where 's the danger of receding from that inexorable strictness ? c. here it lies . it implies an assent , both to the equity of the complaint , and to the reason of the opinion in question : ( if not also a submission to importunity , and clamor . ) and among many ill consequences , it draws this after it , for one. if any one sort of people may be allow'd to challenge any one law ; all other sorts have an equal right of complaining against all , or any of the rest. so that a toleration , thus extorted , does not only unsettle the law ; but ministers argument to the pretense of popular reformation . to say nothing of the credit it gives to the disobedient , and discouragement to those that keep their stations : beside what may be reflected upon the magistrate , for instability of counsels . another exception may be this : how shall we distinguish betwixt faction , and conscience ? if it prove to be the former , a toleration does the business to their hand . nay , suppose it the latter ; and that , hitherto , there is nothing but pure conscience in the case ; what security have we , that it shall not yet embroil us in mutiny , and sedition ? will not the tolerated party become a sanctuary for all the turbulent spirits in the nation ? shall they not have their meetings , and consultations , without controul ? and when they shall see the law prostituted to the lusts of the multitude ; the order of the government dissolved ; and the government it self left naked , and supportless ; what can we expect shall be the end of these things , but misery , and confusion ? nor is it all , that a toleration is of manifest hazard to us : but it is that too , without any sort of benefit in return . shall we be the quieter for it ? no. one grant shall become a president for another ; and so shall one importunity for another , till we are brought in the end , either to a general license ; or to a general tumult . ( no matter which ) the rejected party will be sure to mind you , that they are as good subjects , and have as good claims as others , that are tolerated ; upon which disobliging score , there falls an odium , and envy upon the government . i think a man shall not need the spirit of prophesie , to foretel these events . for a toleration does naturally evirtuate the law , and lead to a total dissolution of ecclesiastical order ; and consequently , to a confusion , both in church , and state. n. c. i do not find my self much press'd by any thing now offer'd : if a toleration unhinges the law , 't is but making the law a little wider , and then that block is removed . and so is the fear likewise of bringing present importunities into president : for all tolerable liberties may be comprehended within that latitude . and as to the matter of imposing faction for conscience , such a probiston secures you , as well , as the act for uniformity . c. i have spoken as much as needs to this point : if you think you have any right to a toleration , make it out ; and approve your selves for a generation of people , to whom , the king may with honour , and safety , extend a bounty . sect . vii . the non-conformist's plea for toleration , upon reason of state . c. the ordinary motives to indulgence , are these three . . reason of state. . the merits of the party . . the innocence , and modesty of their practises , and opinions . what have you to say now for a toleration upon reason of state ? n. c. the non-conformists are the king's subjects ; and what 's a king without his people ? c. by birth , and obligation , they are the king's subjects ; but if they be not so in practise , and obedience , they have no longer any title to the benefit of his protection ; and such subjects are the worst of enemies . n. c. you will not deny them however to be a numerous party ; and a people of conduct , and unity : which puts the government under some kind of prudential necessity , to oblige so considerable an interest . c. if they be consequently dangerous , because they are numerous ; the greater the number is , the greater is the hazard : and therefore because they are many already , and will encrease if they be suffer'd , they are not to be tolerated . n. c. but men will be much more peaceable when they are indulged , then when they are persecuted . c. now i am perswaded , that the multitude will be much quieter without a power to do mischief , then with it . but what is your opinion of the honesty of the party ? n. c. i do seriously believe the non-conformists to be an honest , consciencious sort of people . c. but they must be knaves , to make good your argument : for if they be honest , they 'l be quiet without a toleration : if they be dishonest , they 'l be dangerous with it . consider again ; if there be any hazard , it lies not in the number , but in the confederacy . a million of men without agreement , are but as one single person . now they must consult , before they can agree ; and they must meet , before they can consult . so that barely to hinder the assembling of these multitudes , frustrates the danger of them. whereas , on the other side , to tolerate separate meetings , is to countenance a combination . n. c. mistake me not ; i do not say , 't is likely they will be troublesome , in respect of their temper , and iudgments ; but that they are considerable enough to be so , in regard of their quality and number . c. whether do you take to be the greater number ; those that singly wish to be discharg'd from the act of uniformety ; or those that would have no law at all ? those that are troubled because they may not worship according to their fancy : or those that are displeased because they cannot live , and rule according to their appetite ? the truytor would have one law discharg'd : the schismatick , another : the idolater , a third : the sacrilegious person , a fourth : the profane swearer , a fifth : the false swearer , a sixth : the murderer , a seventh : the seducer , an eighth : and in sine ; not one of a thousand , but had rather command , then obey . shall the king therefore dissolve the law , because there are so many criminals ? that were to raise an argument against authority , from the very reason of its constitution . shall the people be left to do what they list , because a world of them have a mind to do what they should not ? shall his majesty give up his government , for fear of some millions ( perchance ) in his dominions , that had rather be kings , then subjects ? less forcible , beyond question , is the necessity of the king 's granting a toleration , ( if you reckon upon numbers ) then that of renouncing his sovereignty . for doubtless , where there is one man that is truly scrupulous , there are hundreds of avaricious , ambitious , and otherwise irreligious persons . n. c. tell me , i beseech you ; do not you believe that there are more n●…n-conformists now , then there were at the beginning of the late war ? c. yes , i do verily believe , three to one. n. c. why then 't is at least three to one against you : for at that time , the third part of this number was the predominant interest of the nation . c. that does not follow ; for you may remember , that at the beginning of the late war , the party were masters of the tower , the navy , of all considerable forts , towns , and magazins : they had a great part of the crown and church revenues under their command , and london at their beck : beside the plunder of malignants , and the bountiful contributions of the well-affected . scotland was already confederate with them in one rebellion ; and they had made sure of another in ireland ( by persecuting the earl of strafford , who was the only person capable of keeping them quiet . ) which they further assisted , by a gross opposition of his majesties proposals , and resolutions to suppress it . [ see the king's speech of decemb. . . and the following petition concerning the same . ] finally , for the better countenance of their usurpations , the house of commons was drawn down into a close committee , and the votes of that iunto were impos'd upon the nation as the acts of a regular , and complete authority . this was their condition formerly ; but blessed be god , it is not so at present . the three kingdoms are now at peace ; and we have a parliament that is no friend to the faction . the king is possest of a considerable guard , which his royal father wanted . the militia is in safe hands . his majesty is likewise possest of his regal power , and revenue : and his capital city firm in its obedience : to all which may be added , that although divers particulars are as wealthy as pillage , and pardon , can make them ; yet they want a common stock to carry on a common cause . the thimbles , and the bedkins fail ; and the comfortable in-comes of a irish adventures ; b moneys and plate upon the propositions ; c confiscated estates ; d twentieth parts ; and e weekly assessments ; and a hundred other pecuniary stratagems are departed from them . if it be so , that these people have none of these advantages now remaining , by virtue whereof , they did so much mischief before ; what necessity of tolerating for fear of disobliging them ? n. c. however ; it is not for your credit , to say , these people want conduct , by whom your selves have been worsted . c. the men that worsted us , were a sort of people , that voted down bishops on the wrong side of the parliament-house door ; that cry'd , they would have no more porter's lodge at whitehall ; and told his sacred majesty in a publique declaration [ august . . ] that the pretence that his person was there in danger , was a suggestion as false as the father of lies could invent . — that seiz'd the tower , the navy , the king's towns , forts , magazins , friends , and revenues : that levy'd war against , and imprison'd his sacred person ; usurped his sovereign authority ; imbrued their hands in his royal blood ; and in the very pulpit , animated , and avowed the unexampled murder . if these be the people which you plead for , under the notion of non-conformists , never trouble your selves to go nine mile about , for a toleration : but come roundly up to the point , and desire his majesty to deliver up his crown . if it be otherwise , you have overshot your self in your challenge ; and it does not appear , that you are the numerous , politick , and united party we took you for . if the non-conformists were the principal conducters in that design , they are not honest enough to be trusted ; and i see no reason of state , to dispose the king to gratifie the murderers of his father . if they were not so , it was none of their conduct that did the work. n. c. if societies , and professions , shall be made answerable for the failings of particulars , all communities , and fellowships will be found blameable alike ; for there is no order , or way , without corrupt pretenders to 't : and it is not enough to say , there were non-conformists in the party unless you probe , that what those non-conformists did , was acted upon a principle , common to dissenters and that they did it , as non-conformists . ; ; c. this is a defence , instead of an answer ; as if i had now charg'd the combination upon the non-conformists , when i only ask , if they were the managers of it , or no ? this , you neither confess , nor deny ; and there let it rest : since the dilemma lies indifferently against you , whether they were , or not . ( as does already appear ) touching the unity you boast of , ( i must confess ) it is as eminent against your superiours , as your disagreements are among your selves . and take all together , i see nothing made out as yet , to prove , that the kingdom is likely to be either the better for granting a toleration , or the worse for refusing it . moreover , we are not unacquainted with your false musters . nine presbyteries , of fifty , made up one of your general assemblies . and upon the conference at hampton-court , in . of above nine thousand ministers , there were but forty nine upon the r●…ll , that stood out , and were deposed : such a noise ( says spotswood ) will a few disturbers cause , in any society where they are tolerated . but what if a man should allow the non-conformists to be as valuable as you represent them ? it is but a kind of pagan argument , to urge the worshipping of them ( as the indians do the devil ) for fear they should hurt us . n. c. they that have a power to do hurt , have commonly a power to do good and no doubt of it , the non-conformists , under the obligation of an indulgence , would shew themselves as serviceable to the common good , as any sort of people whatsoever . ; c. what they will do , is uncertain ; what they have done , is upon record , in characters of blood. give me but one instance , even since the reformation , where england , or scotland was ever the better for them ( any otherwise , then by god's extraordinary working of good out of evil , and take the cause . n. c. i would it were put upon that issue . sect . viii . the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the merits of the party . c. what has your party merited from the publique , that an exception to a general rule should be granted in your favour ? n. c. many of us ventur'd all , to save the life of the late king. c. and yet ye ventur'd more to take it away : for ye did but talk for the one ; and ye fought for the other . n. c. we ever abominated the thought of murdering him . c. you should have abominated the money too , for which ye sold him. n. c. who sold him ? c. the presbyterians sold him ; and the independents were the purchasers . n. c. did not the presbyterians uote his majesties concessions a ground for a ●…reaty ? c. yes ; but it was upon conditions , worse then death it self . they deliver'd him up too , when they might have preserved him : and they stickled for him , when they knew they could do him no good. n. c. what end could they have in that ? c. the very same end in — , which they had in — : to make a party by it , and set up a presbyterian interest in the king's name . n. c. all the world knows , that we were so much afflicted for his sacred majesties distress , that we had many solemn days of humiliation for it . c. so ye had for his successes ( when time was ) for fear he should get the better of ye : and you had your days of thanksgiving too , for his disasters . n. c. pray'e let me ask you one question now : who brought in this king ? c. they that would not suffer you to keep him out : that party , which , by a restless , and incessant loyalty , hindred your establishment . n. c. and what do you think of the secluded members ? c. we 'l speak to that point in another place . but can you tell me what was the ground of the quarrel ? i suppose i need not tell you what was the event of it . n. c. religion , and liberty . c. of which side were the tender consciences ? for the king ; or against him ? n. c. we were ever for the king ; witness our petitions , declarations , and , in a most signal manner , our solemn league and covenant . c. now i thought you had been against him : because you took away his revenue , authority , and life : unless you mean that you were for him in your words , as you were against him in your actions . n. c. there were many of us , that lov'd the king as well as any of those about him. c. according to the covenant ( that is . ) and does not your party love this king , as well as they did the last ? i do not think but you love the bishops too . n. c. truly when they are out of their fooleries , i have no quarrel to the men. but what makes you couple the crown , and the mitre still ? as if no man could be a good subject , that is disaffected to prelacy . c. why truly , i think you can h●…rdly shew me any one non-conformist that ever struck stroke for the king ; or any true son of the episcopal order of the church , that ever bore arms against him. n. c. are not you your self satisfied , that even cromwel himself , and divers of his principal officers , when the late king was at hampton-court , had deliberations , and intentions to save him ? and that there were thousands in the army , that had no unkindness for his majesty ? c. i do absolutely believe , both the one , and the other ; and that the folly , and heedlesness of the common-souldier contributed , in a high measure , to the general fate : nay , that his late majesty was oppress'd , even by those , that thought they fought for him , before they understood what they did . but yet let me commend to your observation , that these relenting intervals in the heads of the army , did manifestly vary , according to the pulse of their affairs . which evinces , that it was a deliberation , upon the matter of convenience , rather then upon a point of conscience . but thus far however we are agreed ; that many of the non-conformists were engaged ; whether upon ignorance , interest , or faction , take your choice . that is to say , upon which of these three you will found the merits of your party . we are next to enquire , how far your principles , and actions , will comport with the duties of society , and the ends of government . sect . ix . the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the innocence , and modesty of their opinions and practises . c. in the question of government , and obedience , there are many points , wherein the non-conformists agree : many more , wherein they differ : and not a few , wherein they are altogether fluctuant , and uncertain . we have nothing to do ( in this place ) with their disagreements , or uncertainties ; save only in those matters wherein they are united by common consent : and to determine what those are , will be a new difficulty ; unless you tell us before-hand , what authorities we may depend upon . your principles must be known , or they cannot be examined . wherefore , pray'e direct us where we may find them . n. c. why truly in the history of the reformation ; for this controversie has been on foot from the very beginning of it , to this day . c. if you speak of the reformation beyond the seas , i do not find any thing there , that comes neer our purpose . here is , first , pretended , a reformation of a reformation ; secondly , a conjunction of several parties , and perswasions , at utter enmity one with another , in a confederacy against the order of the government : whereas in the great turn of affairs abroad , i see little more then a defection from the church of rome ; and people setling themselves in some other way , as well as they could . muncer's party in germany , had ( i confess ) some resemblance of the tumults here in england , that usher'd in the late war ; both for the medly , and for the rabble . in scotland indeed , there was a contest , for the reforming of a reformation ; and it went high . but it was only a struggle , for the geneva-discipline : which humour was brought over to us too , and driven on , for a while , under q elizabeth , with much contumacy , and bitterness . but our case ( in short ) was never known in the christian world , till the late troubles ; and thither it is , that we must resort for satisfaction to our present enquiry . now whether you 'l be tried by the declarations , votes , orders , and ordinances of that pretended parliament that carry'd on the quarrel ; or by the undeniable doctrines , and positions of your own divines ; ( and those the very idols of your party ) is left at your election . n. c. as for the parliament , let them answer for themselves : we had no hand in their proceedings . and for our ministers , they were but men , and may have their failings as well as other people . if you would know our principles ; we are for worshipping according to the light of our consciences , for obeying god rather then man ; and for yielding all due obedience to the civil magistrate . c. all this comes to nothing . for you may make that light what you please ; and qualifie that due obedience as you list . what does all this evasion , and obscurity signifie ; but that there is somewhat in the bottom , more then you are willing to own ? there are a sort of people , that tell us , the war raised in — , in the name of king and parliament , was lawful . and that the soveraignty was lodg'd in the two houses , ( nay in the people ) in case of necessity . that kings are but the peoples trustees ; their power , fiduciary ; and the duty of subjects only conditional . that princes may be depos'd ; nay , and put to death , in case of tyranny : and that their persons may be resisted , but not their authority . that the king is singulis major , universis minor : and that the people may enter into covenant , for the reformation of religion , without the consent of the chief magistrate ; nay , against his authority ; and propagate religion by the sword. they make their appeals , from the literal construction of law , to the equitable ; from the law written , to the law of nature , and necessity . a man might ply you with fresh instances upon this subject , till to morrow morning ; but here we 'l stop : and pray'e speak your opinion now , of granting a toleration , to a party that professes , and teaches , these principles ; and acts accordingly . n. c. what is all this to the non-conformists ? who are already come to an agreement ; that , in the question of toleration , the foundation of faith , good life , and government , is to be secured . c. very good. so that what party soever shall be found guilty of the positions aforesaid , and of actions answerable thereunto , cannot reasonably pretend to a toleration , from the innocency of their opinions and practises . now to particulars . the positions of divers eminent non-conformists . i. the war raised by the two houses in the name of king and parliament , . was lawful . [ i cannot see , that i was mistaken in the main cause , nor dare i repent of it , nor forbear the same , if it were to do again , in the same state of things . — and my iudgment tells me , that if i should do otherwise , i should be guilty of treason , or disloyalty , against the soveraign power of the land. pag. . a king , abusing his power , to the overthrow of religion , laws , and liberties , may be controuled , and opposed . this may serve to justifie the proceedings of this kingdom against the late king , who in a hostile way set himself to overthrow religion , parliaments , laws , and liberties . p. . the righteousness of the parliament's cause , is as clear , as the sun at noon-day . and , like the law of god it self , in these excellent qualifications of it ; that it is holy , just , and good. p. . ii. the lords , and commons are the supreme power ; nay the people , in case of necessity . parliaments may judge of publique necessity , without the king ; ( if deserted by the king ) and are to be accompted , by virtue of representation , as the whole body of the state. p. . whensoever a king , or other superior authority , creates an inferior ; they invest it with a legitimacy of magistratical power to punish themselves also , in case they prove evil-doers . p. . england is a mixt monarchy , and governed by the major part of the three estates assembled in parliament . p. . the houses are not only requisite to the acting of the power of making laws ; but co-ordinate with his majesty , in the very power of acting . p. . when as a part of the legislative power resides in the two houses ; as also a power to redress grievances , and to call into question all ministers of state , and justice , and all subjects , of whatsoever degree , in case of delinquency ; it may be thought , that a part of the supreme power doth reside in them , though they have not the honorary title : and this part of the supreme power , is indeed capable of doing wrong : yet how it might be guilty of rebellion , is more difficult to conceive . p. . the delegates of the people , in the house of commons , and the commissioners on the king's behalf , in the house of peers , concurring ; do very far bind the king , if not wholly . p. . and when these cannot agree , but break , one from another , the commons in parliament assembled , are ex officio , the keepers of the liberties of the nation , and righteous possessors , and defenders of it , against all usurpers , and usurpations whatsoever . p. . iii. kings are but the peoples trustees ; their power , fiduciary ; and the duty of subjects , conditional . [ the king , is but the servant of the people ; and his royalty is only a virtual emanation from them ; and in them , radically , as in the first subject . ] so rutherford , parker , goodwin , bridges , milton , &c. the people can give no other power , then such as god has given them : and god has never given a moral power to do evil. all fiduciary power , abused , may be repealed ; and parliamentary power is no other : which , if it be abused , the people may repeal it ; and resist them ; annulling their commissions ; rescinding their acts ; and denuding them of their fiduciary power : even as the king himself may be denuded of the same power by the three estates . p. . princes derive their power , and prerogative from the people ; and have their investitures , meerly for the peoples benefit . p. . it is the king's duty to pass all such laws , as both houses shall judge good for the kingdom : upon a supposition , that they are good , which by them are judg'd such . if the prince fail in his promise , the people are exempt frm their obedience ; the contract is made void , and the right of obligation is of no force . — it is therefore permitted to the officers of a kingdom , either all , or some good number of them , to suppress a tyrant . p. , . iv. princes may be deposed , and put to death , in case of tyranny . every worthy man , in parliament , may , for the publique good , be thought a fit peer , and judge of the king. p. . where there is no opportunity for the interposure of other judges , the law of nature , and the law of nations allow every man to judge in his own gase . p. . if a prince wants such understanding , goodness , or power , as the people judge necessary to the ends of government ; in the first place ; he is capable of the name , but not of the government . in the second ; he deposes himself . in the third ; the want of power , deposes him . theses , , . it is lawful for any , who have the power , to call to accompt , a tyrant , or wicked king ; and after due conviction , to depose , and put him to death , if the ordinary magistrate have neglected , or deny'd to do it . it is not impossible , for a king , regis personam exuere ; in a natural , or moral madness or frenzy to turn tyrant , yea beast , waiving his royal place , violently , extrajudicially , extramagisterially to assault his subjects , as saul did david . in this case , men think nature doth dictate it ; and scripture doth justifie a man , se defendendo vim vi repellere . p. . the real soveraignty among us , was in king , lords , and commons ; and if the king raise war against such a parliament : the king may not only be resisted , but ceaseth to be a king. thesis . the lord rent the kingdom from saul , for sparing one agag ; and for want of thorough extirpation of all the accurs●…d things , he lost both thanks for what he had done , and kingdom also . p. . let no law hinder ye : if law be to be broken , it is for a crown ; and therefore , for religion . — ye are set over kingdoms , to root out , pull down , destroy , and throw down : do it quickly , do it thorougly . by what rule of conscience , or god , is a state bound to sacrifice religion , laws , and liberties , rather then endure , that the princes life should come into any possibilities of hazard , by defending them , against those that in his name are bent to su●…due them ? if he will needs thrust himself upon the hazard , when he needs not , whose fault is that ? there never was a greater harmony of the laws of nature , reason , prudence , and necessity , to warrant any act , then may be found , and discern'd in that act of justice on the late king. p. . touching the righteousness of the sentence past upon the king ; doubtless never was any person under heaven , sentenc'd with death , upon more equitable , and just grounds . p. . praised be god , who hath delivered us from the impositions of prelatical innovacions , altar-genu-flections , and cringings , with crossings , and all that popish trash and trumpery . and truly ( i speak no more then what i have often thought , and said ) the removal of those insupportable burdens , countervails for the blood and creasure shed and spent in these late distractions ▪ nor did i ever as yet hear of any godly men that desired , were it possible , to purchase their friends , or money again , at so dear a ra●…e , as with the return of these : to have those soul-burdening , antichristian yokes re-imposed upon us. and if any such there be , i am sure , that d●…sire is no part of their godliness ; and i profess my self , in that , to be none of the number . p. . v. the persons of princes may be resisted , though not their authority . the man who is king , may be resisted , but not the royal office : the king in concreto , but not the king in abstracto . p. . [ he may be resisted in a pitch't battel , and with swords , and guns . . that is ; his private will may be resisted , not his legal will. . neither is he in the field , as a king , but as ●…n unjust invader , and grassator . . if he chance to be slain , 't is but an accident ; and who can help it ? . he is guilty of his own death ; or let them answer for 't that brought him thither , the contrary party is innocent . . ] the king's authority is with the two houses , though the person of charles stuart be not there . his capacity was at westminster , when his body was upon the scaffold at whitehall , &c. p. . vi. the king is singulis major , universis minor . the king is in dignity inferior to the people . p. . the soveraign power is eminently ; fontaliter ; originally , and radically in the people . . detrahere indigno magistratum etsi privati non debeant , populus tamen universus quin possit , nemo , opinor , dubitabit . it is not for private persons to depose a wicked governour : but that the universality of the people may lawfully do it , i think no body questions . fixum ratúmque habeatur , populi semper esse debere supremam majestatem . p. . vii . the people may enter into a covenant for reformation , without the consent of the chief magistrate . there is much sin in making a covenant on sinful grounds , and there is more sin in keeping it ; but when the preservation of true religion , and the vindication of just liberties meet in the ground , ye may swear , and not repent ; yea , if ye swear , ye must not repent . p. . not only is that covenant which god hath made with us , founded in the blood of christ ; but that also , which we make with god. p. . the breach of the national covenant is a greater sin , then a sin against a commandment , or against an ordinance . . — a sin of so high a nature , that god cannot in honour but be avenged upon 't . . viii . religion may be propagated by the sword . the question in england is , whether christ , or anti-christ , shall be lord , or king ? go on therefore couragiously : never can ye lay out your blood in such a quarrel . christ shed all his blood to save you from hell. venture all yours , to set him upon his throne p. . cursed be he that withholdeth his sword from blood ; that spares , when god saith strike ; that suffers those to escape , whom god has appointed to destruction . p. . in the of numbers , you shall read that there were two silver trumpets ; and as there were priests appointed for the convocation of their assemblies , so there were priests to sound the silver trumpets to proclaim the war. and likewise in the of deuteronomy , you shall find there , that when the children of israel would go out to war , the sons of levi ( one of the priests ) was to make a speech to encourage them . and certainly , if this were the way of god in the old testament ; certainly , much more in such a cause as this , in which cause , religion is so entwin'd , and indeed so enterlac'd , that religion , and this cause , are like hippocrates his twins , they must live , and dye together . you have vowed in this covenant to assist the forces raised by the parliament , according to your power , and vocation ; and not to assist the forces raised by the king , neither directly , nor indirectly . p. . now let me exhort you , not only to chuse to serve god , and to serve his church , and his cause , in this most iust defensive war , &c. . in vain shall you in your fasts , with josua , ly on your faces , unless you lay your achans on their backs ; in vain are the high praises of god in your mouthes , without a two-edged sword in your hands . p. . the execution of iudgment is the lords work , and they shall be cursed that do it negligently ; and cursed shall they be that keep back their sword from blood in this cause . you know the story of gods message unto ahab , for letting benhadad go upon composition . p. . whensoever you shall behold the hand of god , in the fall of babylon , say ; ●…rue ; here is a babylonish priest crying out , alas ! alas ! my living ; i have wife and children to maintein . i : but all this is to perform the iudgment of the lord. p. . though as little ones , they call for pitty , yet as babylonish , they call for iustice , even to blood. ix . there lies an appeal from the letter of the law , to the equity of it : and from the law written , to the law of nature . the commander going against the equity of the law , gives liberty to the commanded , to refuse obedience to the letter of it . there is a court of necessity , no less then a court of justice ; and the fundamental laws must then speak : and it is with a people , in this extremity , as if they had no ruler . p. . the people have given the politique power to the king ; and the natural power they reserve to themselves . . all humane laws and constitutions are made with knees , to bend to the law of nature and necessity . p. . here is more then enough said already ; and to go on as far as the matter would carry us , there would be no end on 't . you are now at ●…berty , either to deny these to be the positions of the non-con●… ; or to justifie the positions themselves ; or to lay down your plea for toleration , upon the innocency of their principles . n. c. i am no friend to these positions : neither can i yet quit my clai●… , unless you make it out , that these are the principles of the party , which i take to be only the errours of individuals . c. shew me the party , and let me alone to prove these to be their principles . but if you will not acknowledge a party , they are ( as you say ) but the errours of individuals ; though all the non-conformists in the three kingdoms should own them under their hands . you call your selves non-confermists , and so were they , that both began , and carried on the late war. great apprehensions they had of the designs of the popish party . [ so have you . ] mightily offended they were at the immoderate power of the bishops . [ you again . ] petitioners for the taking away such oppressions in religion , church government , and discipline , as had been brought in , and fomented by them . [ your very picture still . ] and for uniting all such together , as joyn in the same fundamental truths against the papists : ●…hy removing some oppressions , and unnecessary ceremonies , by which , divers weak consciences have been scrupled , and seem to be divided from the rest . [ the very platform of your comprehension . ] thus far you march hand in hand : i need not tell you what followed upon 't ; but your parts are so much alike , that it looks as if we were now again upon the first seene of the same tragedy . for a conclusion , conformity , or in-conformity , seem'd at first to be the sum of the question ; and the discipline of the church was made the ground of the quarrel . the ru●…ing party in the pretended parliament , were non-conformists ; the army , non-conformists ; the pre●…ended assembly of divines were non conformists ; the city-ministers , and lecturers , non-conformists ; and by the sol●…mn league and covenant , every man that took it , was to be a non-conformist , upon pain of damnation . now take your choice , ( since non-conformists you are ) whether you 'l range your selves under the parliament ; your army ; your assembly ; your city-ministers ; or your solemn league and covenant : and let me bear the blame , if i make it not as clear as the day , that the principles charg'd upon you , are the principles of your party . as to your practises , they haue been suitable to your positions ; and all those violences have been exercised upon the government , that were first dictated in the pulpit . the lawfulness of popular insurrections ; of deposing , and putting kings to death , under the cloak of reformation , has been vented as the doctrine of iesus christ , even by the oracles of your cause : nay ; and several of them ( at present ) eager asserters of the equity of a toleration . and what has been the fruit of these unchristian-lectures ; but the subversion both of church , and state : and the murder of a pio●… , and gracious prince , under pretence of doing god and the kingdom good service ? n. c. these are actions ( i confess ) not to be warranted . but yet my charity perswades me , that a great part of the mischief they did , proceeded rather from necessity , then inclination . c. will ye see then what they did afterward , when they were at liberty to do what they listed ? they had no sooner murdered the father , but immediately a they made it death to proclaim the son. b they abolish't kingly government . c sold the crown-lands . d declared it treason to deny the supremacy of the commons . e nulled all honours and titles granted by the king since — . f made scotland one commonwealth with england , &c. have they now kept any better touch with the liberty and property of the subjects ? let their proceedings witness for them ; a as their tax upon the fifth and twentieth part. b excise upon flesh , victuals , and salt. c a new excise upon allom , copperas , monmouth-caps , hops , saffron , starch , &c. d a loan of l. s. d. for supply of the scots . e an assessment for the maint●…nance of the army . f the house of peers abolish't ; and a monethly tax of l. for the army . g a monthly tax of l. h an imposition upon coal . i a monthly assessment of l. not to clog the discourse with over many particulars : we 'l see next , what they have done , toward the moderating of the power of bishops , and the removal of unnecessary ceremoni●…s . k the arch-bishop of canterbury suspend●…d , and his t●…mporalties sequestred . l monuments of superstition demolish't ; ( that is , in short , an ordinance for sacriledge ) m the book of common-prayer laid aside , and the directory commanded instead of it . n arch-bishops and bishops abolish't , and their lands settled in trustees . o their lands exposed to sale. p festivals abolish't . q deans and chapters , &c. abolish't : and their lands to be sold. this is your way , of moderating the power of bishops , and of removing unnecessary ceremonies . and this is the history ( in little ) of the opinions , and practises of your party : drawn from matter of fact ; provable to a syllable ; and deliver'd without any amplification of the matter . n c. ill things have been done , there 's no question on 't ; but they have been done by ill men : and 't is not a toleration of faction that we pretend to , but a toleration of conscience . c , which toleration ( upon farther search ) will be found to be a meer utopian project , or w●…rse . sect . x. the non-conformists demand a toleration , which is neither intelligible in the whole , nor practicable , so far as it may be understood . c. it makes a great noise in the world , the out-cry of the non-conformists , for toleration , indalgence , liberty of conscience , comprehension , &c. let them but set it down in a clear , practicable , and intelligible proposition , and i dare say , they shall have it for the asking . n. c. we do propound , that reformed christianity may be settled in its due latitude . c. by reformed christianity , i suppose you intend the protestant religion : but your due latitude is of a suspicious intimation . do not you remember a declaration of the two houses ( april . . ) for a due , and necessary reformation of the government , and liturgy of the church : and nothing to be taken away , either in the one , or in the other , but what should be found evil , and justly offensive ; or , at the least , unnecessary , and burdensom ? this due reformation ended ( as you may remember ) in a total extirpation of both liturgy and government : and we see nothing to the contrary , but your due latitude may signifie the very same thing with their due reformation . pray be a little clearer . n. c. then to put all out of doubt ; i would , in the first place , have an establish't order : secondly ; a limited toleration : thirdly , a discreet connivence . the parties comprehended in the establishment , to be of importance in the publique interest ; and of principles congruous to such stated order in the church , as the stability of the commonwealth requires . i would have the toleration , to extend to those that are of sound belief , and go●…d life ; yet have taken in some principles of church-government less congruous to national settlem●…nt . and for connivence ; it is to be remitted to discretion . c. what is all this now , but an universal toleration , in a disguise ? some to be comprehended within the establishment ; others to be tolerated ; and the rest to be connived at . again ; your establishment is to be of a latitude , to take in several sorts of dissenters , under such and such qualifications . they must be of importance in the publique interest ; and of principles congruous to such stated order in the church , as the stability of the commonwealth requires . ask the dissenters themselves concerning their own qualifications , and they 'l tell you . that they are all of them , of important interests , and of congruou●… principles : so that this way , you are still upon an universal toleration . but on the other side , if you consult authority about your comprehension , the preface to the act for uniformity will tell you , that the establishment is as wide already as the peace of the nation will well bear . if you 'l acquiesce in this iudgment , the case is determined to our hand : if you appeal from it , you cast your selves out of the pale of your own project , because of your principles incongruous to the reason of government . n. c. but it appears to us , that the stated order of the church may be widen'd , without any check to the stability of government . c. and what will this avail you , if it appears otherwise to the governours themselves ? if they may be iudges , the strife is at an end ; but if you think to help your selves by translating the iudgment to the people ; after that day , let us never expect any other law , then the dictate of the rabble . it removes the very foundations of the government , and carries us headlong into anarchy , and confusion , without redemption . if a man should ask you now , about your importance in publique interest ; first ; as to the interest it self , whether you mean an interest of raising men , and moneys ; or what other ? next ; as to the degree , and measure of your importance ; how many regiments of the one , and how many millions of the other , makes up that importance ? would you not take time for an answer ? and then , we are as much at a loss about your [ such stated order in the church as the stability of the common-wealth requires ] you give us no satisfaction at all , wherein the stability of the commonwealth consists ; or what stated order in the church that stability requires : but here is a kind of a moot-point cast in , betwixt authority , and the people , which of the two shall determine , upon that congruity , and convenience . your limited toleration too stands or falls upon the same bottem , with your comprehension : that is to say , who shall iudge of the sound belief , and good life , of the pretendents to that indulgence . as to your connivence , you say nothing of it your self ; and i shall reflect as little upon it . let me only observe upon the whole ; that if you had really a mind to set us right , methinks , you should not trifle us with these ambiguities , and amusements : but rather endeavour by some pertinent , intelligible , and practicable proposition , to bring us to a better understanding . say , what injunctions you would have abated ; name the parties you would recommend for their importance of interests , congruity of principles , sound faith , and good life . teach us how to know these qualities , where to look for them , and who shall iudge of them. let it be made out , that the present sollicitors for tender consciences , are duly authorized , and commission'd to act as the trustees of the respective parties . do this ; and matters may be brought yet to a comfortable issue : but so long as you place the conditions of your indulgence out of the reach of ordinary proof , and indeed , of humane knowledg , every man that is excluded , shall dispute his title to the comprehension , without any possibility of being confuted ; to the scandal of religion , and to the perpetual trouble , both of king , and people . n. c. to set forth the propounded latitude , in the particular limits thereof , were presumptuous , both in reference to superiors , and to the party concerned in it . c. as if it were not a greater presumption , to alienate the affections of the people from their superiors , by reflectings upon the iniquity of the government , then by the tender of some rational medium of accord , to dispose the hearts of superiors to a compliance with the prayers , and necessities of the people . but there is more in these generalities , and r●…serves then the multitude are well aware of ; and i am afraid , it will be as hard a matter , to bring you to an agreement about the p●…rticular parties to be tol●…rated , as about the model it self . sect . xi . the non-conformists demand a toleration , for no body knows whom , or what . c. the non-conformists are the party that desire a toleration ; pray let me ask ye , what are their opinions ? what are their names ? for , i presume , you will not expect a toleration , for no body knows what , or whom . are they all of a mind ? if they were tolerated themselves , would they tolerate one another ? are they come to any resolution upon articles ? are they agreed upon any model of accommodation ? do they know what they would be at ? or is it in the wit of man , to contrive a common expedient to oblige them ? n. c. there 's no body says , that they are all of a mind ; or that it is p●…ssible to please them all ; or reasonable to end●…avour it . there are divers among them , whose principles will never endure any order either in church , or state. but what is the sober part the worse for these extravagants ? those , i mean , who are ready to iustifie themselves ; even according to the strictness of your own measures . c. if you are for such a toleration , as shall exclude the wild , and ungovernable sects of dissenters ; how comes it , that , in your writings , and argumentations , you still plead the general cause of non-conformists , without any exception , or distinction ? n. c. you are not to fasten a charge of this quality upon us ; that have already submitted our selves , not only to the moderation of a limited indulgence , but to your own conditions also , under that very limitation . c. this you have done , i must confess , in general terms ; but still i say , as to particulars , your discourses are of such a frame and biass , as to give credit , and encouragement , to every sect of the whole party . n. c. i am of a perswasion , but not of a party : and whatsoever my perswasion be , it is moderate , catholick , and pacifick . c. and so is every man's , if his own word may be taken for his own perswasion . but why a●…e ye so nic●… , and cautious , in the owning of a particular way , and profession ; and yet so frank , and open , in a clamor for the whole party ? you complain that you are persecuted , and yet obstruct the means of your own relief . some , ye say , are to be indulged ; others , not. how shall authority distinguish of which number you your selves are ; so long as you remain under this concealment ? are you for the presbyterians ? n. c. i am not ashamed of their company , that are commonly called by that name : yet i have no ple●…sure in such n●…mes of distinction . neither my design , nor my principles , engage me to maintein the presbyterial government . c. are you in●…endent then ? n. c. neither . but yet i am ( as i told you ) for tolerating th●…se of sound faith , and good life , that have taken up s●…me principles of church-government l●…ss congruous to national settlement . c. what do you think of the anabaptists , brownists , quakers , & c ? n c. why truly , so it is , that prudent , and pious men may be of exceeding narrow principles , about church-order , and fellowship : toward whom , christian charity pleadeth for indulgence ; and , we hope , political prudence doth not gainsay it . c. so that you are for all parties , but not of any . which gen●…rality gives to understand , that your business , is rather a confederacy , then a scruple . n. c. make that good if you can . sect . xii . the conjunct importunity of the non-conformists for a toleration , is not grounded upon matter of conscience . n. c. you are the first person certainly that ever undertook to make proof of a conscience . c. and yet our saviour tells us , ( in this very case of hypocrisie ) that the tree may be known by its fruits : but however ; the best way of proving a thing feasible , is the doing of it . the non-conformists refuse communion with the church : what is it they boggle at ? n. c. a they do esteem the ceremonies an excess in the worship of god. pag. . b [ and dissent from the present establishment of religion , only in things relating to outward order , and worship . pa. c about the choice of some peculiar ways of worship . pa. . d but as to the english reformation , established by law , they heartily embrace it , and assent to the doctrine of faith conteined in the articles of the church of england . pa. . e they have no new faith to declare : no new doctrine to teach ; no private opinions to divulge ; no point , or truth to profess , which hath not been declared , taught , divulged , and esteem●…d , as the common doctrine of the church of england , ever since the reformation . pa. . f they come up to a full agreement , in all material things , with them , from whom they dissent . pa. . c. if they agree in all material things , it follows , that they divide about matters inconsiderable ; and break the order , peace , and unity of the church for trifles . ( things indifferent , and relating to outward order , and worship . ) n. c. in prescribed forms , and rites of religion , the conscience will interpose , and concern it self ; and cannot resign it self to the dictates of men , in the points of divine worship . and those injunctions , which to the imposers , are indifferent ; in the consciences of the dissenters , are unlawful . and what humane authority can warrant any one to put in practice , an unlawful , or suspected action ? pa. . c. if this be , really , conscience ; you will be found as cautious in venturing , deliberately , upon a suspected action , in all other cases , as you are in this. but what if it shall appear , that this fit of tenderness only takes you , when you are to pay an obedience to the law ; and that you are as bold as lions , when you come to oppose it ? will you not allow us to think it possible , that there may be somewhat more , in the importunities , and pretences of the non-conformists , then matter of conscience ? 't is a suspected action to kneel at the sacrament ; but none , to hold up your hands at the covenant . you make a conscience of disclaiming the obligation of that covenant , in order to the security of the government : but none at all , of leaguing your selves in a conspiracy , for the subversion of it . where was your tenderness , in suspected cases , when , to encourage rapine , sacriledge , and rebellion , was the common business of your counsels , and pulpits ? when it was safer to deny the trinity , then to refuse the covenant . when the same persons , that started at a ceremony , made no scruple at all , of engaging the kingdom in blood ; and laying violent hands upon their sovereign . is not this , streining at a gnat , and swallowing a camel ? n. c. the non-conformists , i know , are charged with principles , that detract from kingly power ; and tend to advance popular faction . it is true , they have been eager asserters of legal liberties . pag. . but these are things gone and past , and nothing to our present purpose . the wise man says , he that repeateth a matter , separateth very friends . a looking back to former discords , mars the most hopeful redi●…egration . acts of indemnity , are acts of oblivion also , and must be so observed . pa. . c. the non-conformists ( the sole actors in the late war ) were only eager asserters ( it seems ) of legal liberties : you do not deal so gingerly with the bishops , in the point of ceremonies , as to let them come off , with the character of eager assertors of legal authorities . so that herein also , your consciences stumble at straws , and leap over blocks . now , whereas you will have it , that a reflection upon former discords , is a violation of the act of indemnity ; and impertinent to our purpose : my answer is ; first , that i do not revive the memory of former discords as a reproach ; but i make use of some instances out of former passages , to make good my assertion : that your conjunct imp●…rtunity for a toleration , is not grounded upon conscience . and to shew you , that your practises , and professions grin one upon another . for conscience is all of a pi●…ce ; not tender , and delicate on the one side , and callous , and unfeeling , on the other . secondly , suppose we should make a little bold with the act of oblivion : i think we have as much right to do it , as you have to fall foul upon the act of uniformity . unless you conceive , that the mercy you have received by one law , gives you a privilege of invading all the rest . as to authority ; it is one and the same in both ; and if there were any place for complaint against the equity of a legal establishment , it would lie much fairer against the act of indemnity . on the behalf of the royallists , ( that have ruined their estates and families in the defence of the law ; and yet after all , are thereby condemned to sit down in silence , and despair ) then against the act of uniformity , on the behalf of the non-conformists ; who by the one law , are secured in the profits of their late disobedience ; and by the other , are taken into the arms of the church , according to the ancient , and common rule , with the rest of his majesties protestant subjects : the same rule , i say ; saying where it is moderated with abatements , and allowances , in favour of pretended scruples . n. c. whereas you make the non-conformists the sole actors in our late confusions , you run your self upon a great mistake : for — it hath been manifested to the world , by such as undertook to iustifie it , when authority should require , [ that the year before the king's death , a select number of iesui●…s being sent from their whole party in england , consulted both the faculty of sorbonne , and the pope's council at rome , touching the lawfulness and expediency , of promoting the change of government , by making away the king , whom they despaired to turn from his hereste : it was debated , and concluded , in both places , that for the advancement of the catholick cause , it was lawful , and expedient to carry on that alteration of state. this determination was effectually pursued by many iesuits , that came over , and acted their parts in several disguises . pag. . c. if this be true , and proveable ; ( as you affirm it is ) you cannot do the protestant cause a more important service , then to make it out to the parliament : who ( you know ) have judg'd the mat●…er worthy of their search , and have appointed a committee to receive informations . pa. . nay , which is more , you are a betrayer of the cause if you do it not . the whole party in england , do you say ? prove out this , and you kill the whole popish party at a blow . this was the year before the king's death , it seems : whas not that within the retrospect of the act of indemnity ? if so , tell me i beseech you , why may not we take the same freedom with the non-conformists , that you do with the papists ? n. c. we shall never have done , if you lash out thus upon digressions . pray keep to the question . c. as close as you please . what if a man should shew you a considerable number , of the eminent , and active instruments in the late war , to be now in the head of the present outcry for toleration ? ( take this into your supposition too , that these very persons promoted our troubles , this very way ; and proceeded from the reformation of discipline , to the dissolution of government ) are we bound in charity to take all their pretensions of scruple for real tenderness of conscience ? n. c. beyond all question ; unless you can either evidence their errour to be unpardonable , or the men themselves , impenitent . c. why then let amesius determine betwixt us. [ peccata illa , quae publicè fuerunt nota , debent etiam confessione publicâ damnari ; quià ad quos malum ipsum exempli contagione pervenerat , ad eos etiam poenitentiae , ac emendationis documentum , si fieri possit , delet transmitti . ] publique sins require publique confession ; to the end , that as many as were mis●…ed by the example , may be set right again by the retraction , and repentance . this conclusion pronounces all those of the old stamp , that abused the people formerly , under colour of conscience ; and are now at work again , upon the same pretext , without a publique recantation , to be in a state of impenitency : and gives us reasonably to presume , that if their consciences can swallow , and digest a rebellion , there is no great danger of their being choak'd with a ceremony . another thing is this ; you do not plead for particular iudgments ; ( in which case , a plea of conscience may be allowed ) but every man urges the equity ( in effect ) of a toleration for all the rest. in which number , you your selves do , severally , and jointly , acknowledge , that there are a great many people of insociable and intolerable principles ; such as in conscience are not to be admitted . and yet herein also , you profess to be guided by impulses of tenderness , and piety ; although in opposition to the whole course of your former declarations , and proceedings , that rise up in judgment against you. n. c. if you grant , that there may be a plea for particulars , i shall not much trouble my self about generals . c. that point shall come on in due time . but let us look a little further yet , into the general cause ; for if it be not conscience , it is confederacy . sect . xiii . the conjunct importunity of the non-conformists for a toleration , is a manifest confederacy . c. this appears , first , from the method of their proceedings ; secondly , from the natural prospect , and tendency of that method ; thirdly , from the nature , and quality of their demands , and arguments ; fourthly ; from the way , and manner of their addresses , and applications ; lastly ; from their agreement in matters of dangero●…s consequence upon the peace of the government . as to their method ; the non-conformists of this age ●…read in the very steps of their predecessors : and this you may observe throughout the whole history of them ; even from the first time that ever the pretence of popular reformation set foot in his majesties dominions unto this instant . this is not a place for a deduction of particulars at length ; but a touch from point to point , will not be much amiss . wherefore , if you please , give me a brief accompt of the non-conformists . first , what kind of people they are ; secondly , what it is they would have ; thirdly , what will the kingdom be the better for granting their desires ? fourthly , what are their grievances , as the case stands with them at present ? fifthly , what are they for number , and resolution ? n. c. they are a people zealous of religion , pa. . an intelligent , sober sort of m●…n , and numerous among all ranks , p. . * peaceable , and useful in the commonwealth ; sound in the faith ; men of conscience ; evident opposers of all errors pernicious to the souls of men , and of an evil aspect upon the publique peace . c. very good : and were not the conspirators that seiz'd king iames , at ruthnen , ( . ) as much as all this amounts to ? if you will believe either themselves , or the assembly at edinburgh in their behalf . the reforming non-conformists under queen elizabeth were unreprovable before all men ; her majesties most loyal subjects , and god's faithful servants : [ most worthy , faithful , and peinful ministers ; modest , watchful , knowing in the scriptures , and of honest conversation ; ( learned , and godly ; says the admonitioner , pa. . and martin senior calls them , the strength of our land , and the sinew of her majesties government . the scotch covenanters , in . out-did all this , for zeal to his majesties person , and authority : the true religion , liberties , and laws of the kingdom . and the two houses at westminster , in . come not behind . them , in their professions , for the defence , and maintenance of the true religion ; the king's person , honour , and estate , and the iust rights , and li●…erties of the subject . here 's your character : now to your d●…mands , what is it you would have ? n. c. a a reformation of church-government , liturgy , and ceremonies . b a bearing with weak consciences : c and a relaxation of the prescribed uniformity . c. and this you will find to have been the constant pretence of the non-conformists , if you consult their story , from one end to the other . [ not to let loose the golden reins of discipline , and government in the church ; but to unburthen the consciences of men , of needless , and superstitious ceremonies , suppress innovations , and settle a preaching ministry , &c. put the case now , that you had your asking ; what would the kingdom be the better for it ? n. c. it will be the better for the king , church , nobility , and gentry . [ and there is no nation under heaven , wherein such an indulgence , or toleration as is desired , would be more welcome , us●…ful , acceptable ; or more subservient to tranquillity , trade , wealth , and peace . c. reformation no enemy to her maj●…sty and the state , is the very title of a desperate libel , printed . against both. and the humble motioner tells you , that it is for the advantage of the queen , clergy , nobility , and commonalty ; that the wealth and honour of the realm will be encreased by it , &c. this was the stile too of our reformers , in . the securing of the publique peace , safety and happiness of the realm ; and the laying the foundation , of more honour , and happiness , to his majesty , then ever was enjoy'd by any of his royal predecessors . — now speak your grievances . n. c. we are excommunicated , outlawed , imprison'd . our families starved , and begg●…r'd . p. . proceeded against with outward punishments , pecuniary , and corporal , nay death it self . p. . [ and all this while trade languishes , rents fall , money scarce . p. . never a greater separation ; never a more general dissatisfaction . p. . c. pray'e say : was it ever better , since non-conformists came into the world ? was not king iames , a favourer of the enemies of god's truth , and of dissolute persons ? a discountenancer of godly ministers ? a promise-breaker to the church ; and a perverter of the laws ; insomuch that no man could be assured of his lands , and life ? was it any better even under the celebrated government of queen elizabeth ? a there were citations , degradings , and deprivations . b some in the marshalsey ; some in the white-lion ; some in the gate●…house at westminster ; others in the counter , or in the clinke , or in bride-well , or in newgate . [ how many good mens deaths have the bishops been the cause of ? how many have they driven to leave the ministry , and live by physique ? or to leave their countrey ? [ poor men have been miserably handled , with revilings , deprivations , imprisonments , banishments : and out of this realm , they have all the best reformed churches through christendom against them . [ if this persecution be not provided for , great trouble will come of it . how your party demean'd themselves toward the late king , of blessed memory , in the matter of calumny , and reproach , you may read at large in that grand , and infamous libel ; the remonstrance of the state of the kingdom , decemb. . . but after all this ; what are these people , for number , and resolution , that make such a clutter ? n. c. thousands of the upright of the land. petition for peace , pag. . ] multitudes ▪ dissent , and resolve to continue so doing ; whatever they suffer for it . pa. . and to forego the u●…most of their earthly concernments , rather then to live and die in an open rebellion to the commanding light of god in their consciences . — to ruine men in their substantials of body , and life , for ceremonies ; is a severity , which englishmen will not , long time , by any means , give countenance unto . pa. . [ to execute extremity upon an intelligent , sober , and peaceable sort of men , so numerous among all ranks , may prove exceeding difficult , unless it be executed by such instruments as may strik ●…errour into the whole nation . p. . c. was not queen elizabeth told of thousands , and hundreds of thousands , that sighed for the holy discipline ? and that since neither parliament , nor convocation-house would take it into consideration , they might blame themselves , if it came in by such means , as would make all their hearts ake ? the truth will prevail ( says the demonstrator ) in spight of your teeth , and all the adversaries of it . the most unnatural , ca●…eless , and horrible rebellion , that this , or ( perhaps ) any other age in the world hath been acqu●…nted with ( to borrow the words of his late majesty ) was profaced with a petition in the name of all the men , women , children , and servants , of edinburgh , against the service-book : and another , in the name of the noblemen , gentry , ministers , and burgesses , against the service-book , and book of canons ; ●…rotesting afterwards , that if any inconvenience should fall out , by reason of pressing those-innovations , it was not to be imputed to them , that sought all things to be reformed by order . this commotion in scotland , led the way to our succeeding broils in england ; which were promoted by the like artifices . great numbers of his majesties subjects , opprest by fines , imprisonments , stig●…atizings ; and many thousands of tradesmen , and artificers , empoverish't by a generality , and multiplicity of vexations . [ great numbers of learned , and pious ministers suspended , deprived , and degraded . in fine , from pamphlets , they advanced to petitions ; from petitions , to tumults ; and from thence , into a formal state of war. n. c. so that from this agreement in method , you will pretend to infer a conformity of design . c. from this agreement in method ; and from the natural tendency of this method , i think a man may honestly conclude , it can be nothing else : and i doubt not , but upon a sober examination of the matter , i shall find you of the same opinion . the most sacred of all bonds is that of government , next to that of religion ; and the reverence which we owe to humane authority , is only inferior to that which we owe to god himself . this being duly weighed , and that the lesser obligation must give place to the greater . ( as for instance ) reason of state , to matter of religion , and humane laws to the law divine : what has any man more to do , for the embroyling of a nation , but first to puzzle the peoples heads with doubts , and scruples , about their respective duties to god , and man ; and then , to possess them , that this , or that political constitution , has no foundation in the holy scriptures ? to bid them stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made them free , galat. . . and finally , to engage the name of god , and the credit of religion in the quarrel ? n. c. and do not you your self believe it better to obey god , then man ? c. yes ; but i think it best of all to obey both : to obey god , for himself , in spirituals ; and man , for god's sake , in temporals , as he is god's commissioner . but tell me ; are you not convinced , that the most likely way in the world to stir up subjects against their prince , is to proclaim the iniquity of his laws , and then to preach damnation upon obedience ? n. c. what if it be ? does it follow , because religion may be made a cloak for a rebellion , that , therefore , it is never to be pleaded for a reformation ? c. truly i have seldom known a conscientio●… reformation , accompanied with the circumstances of our case . here is , first , a character of the non-conformists , drawn by their own hand ; and set off with such flourishes of purity , and perfection , as if the scribes and pharisees themselves had sit for their picture . in the second place , you demand , partly , a reformation ; partly , a toleration : and in the third , you assure us , that all england shall be the better for 't . ( of these two points hereafter . ) in the fourth , you enlarge upon your grievances ; and instead of applying to the government , on the behalf of the people , you are clearly upon the strein of appeal to the people from the rigour of the government . your text is liberty of conscience ; but the stress of your discourse lies upon the liberty of the subject : the decay of trade , scarcity of money , fall of rents , the substantials of body , and life , imprisonment , &c. upon the whole ; your writings want nothing but form , of a direct indictment of king and parliament for persecution , and tyranny ; and would very well bear the translation of their being led on by the instigation of the devil , not having the fear of the lord before their eyes . if you can defend this manner of proceeding , pray do it . n. c. what can be of greater concernment to governours ; then to discern , and consider the state of their people , as it is indeed ? and why may it not be minded of subjects , and spoken of , without any hint , or thought of ●…ebellion ? pag. . c. but what can be of greater mischief to governours , then under colour of remonstrating to them , the state of their people , at the same time , to disaffect the people , by an odious accompt of the errors , misfortunes , and calamities of the government ? governours are not to be told their faults in the market-place ; neither are ministers of the gospel , by your own rules , to be admitted for privy-counsellors . this is spoken as to the good office of your information . as to the intention of it , i am not so bold , as to judge your thoughts : but if you had any drift at all in it , and consider'd what you did , i do not see , how you can acquit your self of evil meaning . suppose the whole invective true ; and that you suffer for righteousness . ( to make the fairest of it ) what effect do you expect these discourses may have upon the people ? and waat upon the magistrate ? will not every man conclude , that the english are the wretched'st slaves upon the face of the earth ? neither liberty of religion , nor of person , for any man that makes a conscience of his ways : the whole nation , groaning under beggery , and bondage . now see what effects these impressions may reasonably produce ; and those effects are a●… reasonably to be taken for the scope of your intention . turn now to the magistrate , and say ; what proportion do you find betwixt these rude disobligations upon the government , and the returns of grace , and favour you desire so earnestly from it ? on the other side ; if your report be false , your design appears still to be the same ; only with the aggravations , of more animosity , and malice in pursuance of it . but true , or false , it is nothing at all to the business of toleration , but a palpable transition from matter of conscience , to matter of state. this is the course , in general , of our advocates for toleration ; and by the desperate sallies , they make , from religion , to government , in their pamphlets , a man may guess what it is they would be at in their pulpits . n. c. oppression makes a wiseman mad ; and 't is not generous to descant upon every thing , that is bolted in heat , and passion , as if it were a formed discourse , upon deliberation , and counsel . c. but is it not a strange thing ( my good friend ) for so many men to be mad at a time ; and to be mad the same way too ? if you will have it , that they mean just nothing at all , i am content ; but if they mean any thing , and all agree in the same meaning ; it can be nothing else but a confederacy . the next point makes it yet more evident ; that is to say , the marshalling of their numbers , and their thousands ; the boast of their interest , in all parties , and of the difficulty to suppress them : the proclamation of their resolution to live and die in defence of their opinions , with an innu●…ndo of the magistrates meddling with them at their peril . what can be the end of this rhodomontade ; but to startle the government , on the one side , and to animate the multitude , on the other ? it is no argument at all for an indulgence , that they are many , powerful , and resolute ; but point blank against it : unless they can approve themselves to be regular , governable , and honest . to sum up all ; here are faults found in the government ; and the people tamper'd into a dislike of it ; so that here 's a disposition to a change , wrought already . no sooner is the multitude perswaded of the necessity of a reformation ; but behold the manner of it ; it must be either by a thorough-alteration , a comprehension , a toleration , or a connivence . and for the principal undertakers , you may put your lives in their hands ; for ( if they do not slander themselves ) they are as godly , an intelligent sort of people , as a man shall see in a summers day . now , for the introducing of this reformation , there is no way , but to set up the word of god , against the law of the land : by the un-bishopping of timothy , and titus ; and giving the people a sight of the iewish sanhed●…m , and gamaliel's dilemma , through a pair of reforming spectacles ; by which , they discover the divine right of presbytery , with one eye ; and that of universal toleration with the other ; and so become one in the common cause of maintaining gospel worship , against humane inventions . the next care is , to gratifie the common people ; for there 's nothing to be done , till they come ; and there is no reason in the world , that the poor wretches should venture soul , life , and estate , gratis ! this is effected , by the doctrine of liberty of conscience . for grant but every man a right , of acting , according to the dictate of his conscience , and he has consequently , a liberty of doing whatsoever he shall pretend to be according to that dictate ; and of refusing to do , whatsoever he shall say is against it : by which invention , the laws of the kingdom are subjected to the pretended consciences of the people ; and the multitude are made the iudges of the controversie . now comes in the ioynt-struggle of the non-conformists for a toleration . this , if it may be obtain'd , puts them in a capacity of doing the rest , themselves . but in case of opposition , their last resort is to a muster of their forces ; a computation of their strength , and interests ; which is the very same thing , as if they should say , in so many syllables ; gentlemen ; you see the parliament does not regard us : we have a good cause , and hands enow to do the work , in spight of their hearts : ●…p and be doing . after this ; there wants nothing , but the word , the sword of the lord , and of gideon , to crown the enterprize . if this be not a conspiracy , tell me what is. n. c. you say , it is ; and we deny it . c. there are strong presumptions also of a confederacy , to be gathered from the nature , and quality of your demands . you desire a comprehension , a toleration ; but then you place the conditions of it , out of the reach of ordinary proof , and indeed , of humane cognizance . ( as is shew'd already ) so that no body knows , who are to be comprehended , and who left out . this looks , as if your business were rather to enflame the difference , then to compose it . and then , when you are prest to name , and specifie the parties you plead for ; ( since by your own confession , several are to be excluded ) you fly still to the generalities , of important interests , and congruous principles , and so leave the matter utterly uncapable of any clear , and logical result ; unless you will allow governours the inspection of their subjects hearts : or teach us how to reduce wild , and uncertain notions , under the prospect of a steady law. but the reason of your dealing thus in the dark , i suppose may be this : your design is to be carry'd on under the countenance of the common cause , wherein , all those persons are united against the government , that would otherwise spend their animosities , one upon another , and break into a thousand pieces among themselves . now for you to declare for any one party , were virtually , to declare against all the rest , and dissolve the combination . touching the manner of their addresses , i shall only add , ( to what is past ) that they are invectives , against those that cannot relieve them , without any formal application to those that can : and tend naturally to the tumultuating of the people , without any colour of contributing to their ben●…fit . of their agreement in matters of dangerous consequence , enough is spoken already , to put it past all contradiction , that their conjunct importunity for a toleration , is a manifest confederacy . wherefore let us now proceed from the drift , and design of their pretensions , to the morality , and reason of them. sect . xiv . the non-conformists joynt pretences for a toleration , overthrown , by the evidence of their joynt-arguments , professions , and practises against it . c. do as you would be done by , is the precept , both of gospel , and nature . with what face then , can you ask a toleration from that government , which of all others , your selves refused to tolerate ? from that prince , to whose blessed father ( in the depth of his agonies ) you cruelly deny'd the use , and service of his own chaplains ? [ a greater ●…igour , and barbarity , then is ever used by christians to the me●…nest prisoners , and greatest malefactors . but they that envy my being a king , are loth i should be a h●…istian while they seek to deprive me of all things else , they are afraid i should save my soul. ; these are the words or that pious prince in his last extremity . n. c. that rigour was the barbarism of a faction , not the principles of the party . c. hear your party speak then . [ it is much , that our brethren should separate from the church ; but that they should endeavour to get a warrant , to authorize their separation from it , and to have liberty ( by drawing members out of it ) to weaken , and diminish it , till , ( so far as lies in them ) they have brought it to nothing ; this we think to be plainly unlawfuf . toleration would be the putting the sword in a madman's hand ; a proclaiming liberty to the wolves , to come into christ's flock to prey upon his lambs . extirpate all achans , with babylonish garments , orders , ceremonies , gestures ; let them be rooted out from among us. you of the honourable house , up ; for the matter belongs to you. we , even all the godly ministers of the countrey , will be with you. toleration makes the scripture a nose of wax : a rule of faith to all religions . liberty of conscience , and toleration of all , or any religion , is so prodigious an impiety , that this religious parli●…ment cannot but abhor the very naming of it . such a toleration is utterly repugnant to , and inconsistent with the solemn league and covenant for reformation . it is unreasonable ( says the defender of the london ministers letter to the assembly ) that independents should desire that toleration of presbyters , which they would not give to presbyters . for with what face can i destre a courtesse from him , to whom i do onenly prosess , 〈◊〉 would deny the same courtesse ? does not this hold as well for us , as it did for you ? n. c. you must not impose the iudgments of particular persons upon us , as instances of publique authority . c. what do ye think then of your national covenant ? was that an act of authority ? wherein you bind your selves by an oath , to settle an uniform presbytery , to the exclusion of all other forms of church-order , or government what soever ; ( under the notion of schism ) and of prel●…cy by name ? are your consciences for toleration now , that were so much against it then ? nay ; there are many among you , that ●…eckon your selves under an obligation , to pursue the ends of that covenant , even to this very day : and do you think it reasonable , for a government to grant privileges , and advantages of power , and credit , to a party , that owns it self under an oath of confederacy to endeavour the extirpation of it ? n. c. you mean i suppose of church-government . c. i mean of both church , and state. was it not the test of the king's enemies , as well as of the bishops ? was it not made death without mercy , for any man , having taken the solemn league and covenant , to adhere to his majesty ? the league and covenant ( says rutherford ) was the first foundation of the ruine of the malignant party in england . and whoever refuses to disclaim it , must be rationally understood , still to drive on the intent of it . so that to tolerate the non-conformists , is to tolerate the sworn adversaries , both of royal , and episcopal authority : nay , to tolerate those that have sworn to persist in that opposition , all the days of their lives ; over and above the tolerating of those upon pretence of conscience for a toleration , that deny to tolerate all other people , upon as strong a pretence of conscience against it . where was this spirit of moderation toward the weak brethren , in the total suppression of the book of common prayer ; and the imposing of the directory , to be o●…served in all the churches within this kingdom ? [ no ruling elders , but such as have taken the national covenant . no electors of elders neither , ( by the ordinance of march . . ) but such as have taken the national covenant . [ no ordination , without a testimonial of having taken the covenant of the three kingdoms . none to be admitted , or entertained in the universities , without taking the solemn league and covenant , and the negative oath ; and upon conditions of submission , and conformity to the discipline , and directory . nay further : you will find in the four bills , and propositions sent to his majesty in the isle of wight , ( march . ) when the two parties , presbyterian , and independent were upon so hard a tugg ; that the presbyterian government , and directory seem'd to be resolv'd upon in one line , and unsettled again , in the very next . by a provision : that no persons whatsoever should be liable to any question , or penalty , for non conformity to the form of government , and divine service appointed in the ordinances ; ( then in force ) but be at liberty to meet for the worship of god ; so as nothing might be done to the disturbance of the peace of the kingdom . yet in this crisis of affairs ; they could clap in another stabbing proviso against us , upon the neck of that : i. e. that this indulgence shall not extend to tolerate the use of the book of common-prayer , in any place whatsoever . and at this rate , you treated the episcopal party , throughout the whole course of your power . n. c. and good cause for it . were not they the most likely of all others to disappoint our settlement ? c. agreed . but as to the matter of conscience ; did you well , or ill in 't ? or rather , was there any thing of conscience in the case ? n. c. certainly it was very fit for the civil power to look to it self : and the power ecclesiastical was no less concern'd to exact a consormity to the laws , and ordinances of christ. c. how can you say this , and consider what you say , without blushing ? if you did well , in refusing to tolerate the episcopal way , because you thought it not right ; the reason is as strong for our way , that have the same opinion of yours . if you did well on the other side , out of a political regard to the publique peace , so do we now , upon that very sc●…re . so that you must either confess , that you did ill , then , in refusing a toleration to us ; or otherwise allow , that authority does well , now , in not permitting it to you. n. c. there might be some plea for a little strictness more then ordinary , in the heat of an eager , and publique contention : but methinks a persecution in cold blood , does not savour of the spirit of our profession . sect . xv. the non-conformists joyntcomplaints of hard measure , and persecution , confronted with their own joynt-proceedings . c. what is it that you call hard measure , and persecution ? n. c. your unmerciful impositions , upon tender consciences , by subscriptions , declarations , &c. there are few nations under the heavens of god ( as far as i can learn ) that have more able , holy , faithful , laborious , and truly peaceable preachers of the gospel , ( proportionably ) then those that are now cast out in england , and are like in england , scotland , and ireland to be cast out , if the old conformity be still urged . ours is not a wicked , prophane , drunken ministry . c. that is , by interpretation : god we thank thee , that we are not as other men are . — nor even as these publicans . but to the matter . these people that you speak of , are set aside for not obeying the law : but what do you think of those , that were turn'd out of their livings , because they would not oppose it ? and they were dispossest too , by some of the present complainants themselves : who first came in at the window , and now are turn'd out at the door . no less then a hundred and fifteen were ejected here in london , within the bills of mortality ( besides paul's and westminster ) and the rest of the kingdom throughout , was purged after that proportion . nor was it thought enough to sequester , unless they starv'd them too ; for they were not allow'd to take the employment , either of school-masters , or chaplains , but under heavy penalties . in south wales , the gospel was as well persecuted , as the ministry : the churches shut up , and the people let loose to the lusts and corruptions of unbridled nature . the only pretence of iustification that the reformers had , was that unchristian , and unmanly libel , white' 's centuries of scandalous ministers ; wherein , without any respect , either to truth , or modesty , they have exposed so many reverend names , to infamy , and dishonour , for the better colour of their own sacrilegious usurpations . but take this along with you , that loyalty in those days past for a punishable , and notorious scandal . n. c. these were acts of policy , and let statesmen answer for them . but to have men cast out of the church , because they will not subscribe , and declare , contrary to their consciences , is doubtless a most unconscionable severity . c. and what is it in the subsciption ( i beseech you ) that you stumble at ? as to the acknowledgment of his majesties supremacy , i suppose , you would not be thought to stick at that . and in matters of doctrine , you make profession to joyn with us : so that about the lawfulness of using the book of common-prayer , and your own submission to the use of it , is the only question . your exceptions likewise to the declarations seem to be very weakly grounded , unless you make a scruple of declaring your selves for the uniformity of the church , or for the peace of the civil government : in which cases you cannot fairly pretend to be trusted in either . but not to extravagate . you are against the imposing of subscriptions , and declarations , you say . n. c. i am against the very imposition it self , upon any terms ; but when they are prest upon grievous penalties ; they are utterly intolerable . c. and yet when the common-prayer was abolish't , there was a penalty , of five pound , for the first offence ; ten for the second ; and a years imprisonment , without bail or mainprize , for the third offence , upon any man that should use it . so that here was an interdiction of our way of worship upon a penalty ; and no notice taken of invading the liberty of our consciences . by the same ordinance , of august . . was also commanded the exercise and order of the directory ; and that upon a forfeiture too : with a penalty , from five pound to fifty , upon any man , that should preach , write , or print any thing to the derogation of it . now here was rigor , you see , on both sides : but no clamor , upon the matter of conscience in this case neither . how many of our ministers were poyson'd in peter-house , and other prisons , either for worshipping according to their consciences , or refusing to act against them ! no man was admitted to his composition without swearing ; no man to live in the parliaments quarters without swearing . neither were we only debarr'd the common rights of subjects , and the benefits of society : but the comforts of religion were denied us ; and an anathema pronounced upon us for our fidelity . the general assembly in scotland ordain'd , that known compliers with the rebells , and such as procured protections from the enemy ; or kept correspondence , or intelligence with him , should be suspended from the lo●…d's supper , till they manifested their repentance before the congregation . [ ●…illespy's useful cases of conscience , pag. , . ] his late majesty , in his large declaration of the affairs of scotland , pag. . tells you , that men were beaten , turn'd out of their livings , reviled , excommunicated , process'd , for not subscribing the covenant . and again , pa. . that there was an oath given at a communion at f●…fe , not to take the king's covenant , nor any other , but their own . now , hear the commissioners of the general assembly , iuly . . his majestie 's concessions , and offers , from the isle of wight , are to be by the parliament declared unsatisfactory ; unless his majesty give assurance by solemn oath , under his hand , and seal , for settling religion according to the covenant ; before his r●…stitution to his royal power , but that i am loth to overcharge you , i could give you the history of the spiritting several persons of honour for slaves ; the sale of three or four score gentlemen to the barbadoes ; beside plunders , decimations , and infinite other outrages , both publique , and private . give me leave to mind you now a little●… of some few of your general provisions for the destruction of the king's party , and the extirpation of that family , and government to which providence has once again subjected you . a an ordinance for sequestration of delinquents estates . b delinquents disabled to bear any office , or have any vote in election of any major , &c. here 's estate , and legal freedom gone already : now follows banishment from one place , and confinement to another . c delinquents must be removed from london and westminster , and confined within five m●…es of their own dwelling . d correspondency with charles stuart , or his par●…y , prohibited , under pain of high treason ; and e death to any man , that shall attempt the revival of his glaim , or that shall be aiding , assisting , comforting , or abetting , unto any person endeavouring to set up the title of any of the issue●… of the late king. where were the able , holy , faithful , laborious , and truly peaceable preachers of the gospel , with the tender consciences you talk of , when these things were a doing ? truly , neither better nor worse , then up to the very ears , a great many of them , in the main action . some , preaching up the conscience of the war ; others , wheedling the city out of their money to maintain it ; and calling for more blood in prosecution of it . till in the conclusion , the king , and the government , fell in the quarrel : and the pulpits all this while at hand , to patronize the reformation . n. c. this ripping up of old stories , does but widen the breach , without doing any good at all . c. if you would not hear of these things again , you should not do them again . n. c. then it seems the whole must suffer for some particulars . c. no , not so . but neither must the whole go scot-free for some particulars . would you have me open my door to a troop of thieves , because there are four or five honest men in the company ? that there are divers conscientious , and well-minded men among the non-conformists , i make no question . but i am yet positive in this , that the non-conformists ; in conjunction , are in a direct conspiracy ; and that when they come once to agree in a publique complaint , it is no longer conscience , but faction . this by the by. — now to the matter before us ; i have given you a breviate of your own proceedings , in the very case of your present complaints . lay your hand upon your heart , and bethink your self , who are the persecutors . n. c. let the persecution rest where it will ; i am fully perswaded , that there is no settling of this kingdom in a state of security , peace , and plenty , without an indulgence , or toleration . sect . xvi . the non-conformists tell us , that liberty of conscience is the common interest of this kingdom : but reason , and experience tell us the contrary . c. that we may not spend our selves in repetition , cavil , or confusion ; take notice , that 't is the general cause of the non conformists , which is coming under d●…bate . for that toleration which the whole party desires , must needs be a toleration of the whole party : and that i oppose ; in confidence , that i have reason , and experience on my side . we have spoken already , as to the unlawfulness ; and somewhat likewise ; to the dangerous consequences of it : together with the unruly opinions , and practices of several of the pretenders to it . we are now to look a little further into it , with a more immediate regard to the common interest of the kingdom , which we may place in the concernments of religion , government , peace , and plenty . to begin with religion : i do not understand , how that which delights in unity , shall be advantaged by division , and fraction . n. c. as if there could be no unity of doctrine , without uniformity of discipline . the precept is ; one lord , one faith , one baptism : and not one way , one form of worship . c. i might tell you , that it is of ancient , and unreprovable practice ; for every national church to appoint its own platform of service , and ceremonies ; and to require obedience , and conformity to that model , and to those rites respectively , from all its members . but this i shall not insist upon . there is no precept ( you say ) for any one way , or form. but can you shew me , that an uniformity of service , and rituals is any where forbidden ? n. c. not in particular : but in the general prohibition of all uncommanded worship , pag. . c. the matter in short is this. either we have a rule in the gospel for the manner of our worship ; or we have none . if there be no way of commanded worship , left us , by christ , and his apostles ; and all uncommanded worship be ( as you say ) forbidden , there must be no appointed worship at all ; and then , every man is at liberty , not only to worship after what manner he pleases , but ( effectually ) to chuse , whether he 'l worship , or no : which brings in all sorts of heresies , and blasphemies ; and countenances even atheism it self . now , on the other hand ; if there be any particular manner of worship prescribed in the word of god ; from that particular manner , we must not presume to vary , by a toleration of any other way then that ; or of more , then one. besides , that it undermines the foundation of all communities , to deny the civil authority a right of interposing in such cases , as are neither commanded , nor forbidden , by god. let us next consider the probable effects of a toleration , in respect of the parties pretending to it . which are , either presbyterian ; or ( in a sense of contradistinction ) independent . the former are for a subordination in churches . the other for an independency : ( according to their denomination ) these are for gather'd congregations ; the other , for parochial . i will not trouble you with the argumentative part of the differences betwixt them ; about the subordination , or co-ordination of churches ; the redundance , or defect of church-officers ; the receptacle of the power of the keys , and the like : but nakedly , and briefly , shew you the kindness they have for one another ; the regards they have for christian charity , in the menage of the quarrel ; and then leave you your self to judge , what may be the event of such a toleration , as to religion . the sectaries ( says edwards in his gangraena ) agree with iulian the apostate , p. . ] they are libertines , and atheists , p. . ] unclean , incestuous , p. . ] drunkards , p. . ] sabbath-breakers , deceivers , p. . ] guilty of gross lying , slandering , iuggling , falsifying their words and promises : excessive pride , and boasting , p. . ] insufferable insolences , horrible affronts to authority , p. . ] there never was a more hypocritical , false , dissembling , cunning generation in england , then many of the grandees of those sectaries . — they encourage , protect , and cry up for saints , sons of belial , and the vilest of men , p. . gangraena's second part , . — see now the other party doe as much for the presbyterians . the presbyterian government is anti-christian , tyrannical , lordly , cruel , a worse bondage then under the prel●…tes ; a bondage under task-masters , as the israelites in aegypt : a presumptu●…us , irregular consistory , which hath no ground in the word of god. barrow , p. . ] a vexatious , briery , thorny , persecuting pre●…ytery . [ pulpit incendiary , p. . ] f●…rmidable to states , and free kingdoms . [ mr. nye . ] the assembly is antichristian , romis●… , 〈◊〉 , the plague ▪ s , and p●…sts of the kingdom ; baal's priests . [ gangraena's second part , . ] the seed of god in this nation has had two capital enemies , the romish papacy , and the scotch presbytery . [ sterry's england's deliverance , p. . ] an anabaptist said , that he hoped to see heaven and earth on fire , before presbytery should be settled ; [ edwards his gangraena . ] barrow calls the consistorians , dangerous , and pestilent seducers ; ravening wolves , which come to us in sheeps cloathing . ] this is enough to shew you the mutual , and implacable enmity , and opposition of the two grand parties , which , you are now perswading your self , might be gratified , by a common indulgence . let me further mind you , that the strife ended not there neither , but proceeded to blood : and that , so soon , as they had master'd the government , in a combination , under the masque of reformation , and conscience ; they parted interests , and upon the very same pretext , engaged in a second war ; and fell foul , one upon the other . wherein they sufficiently manifested to the world , that they fought , not for forms , and ceremonies ; but for booty , and dominion . no less to the scandal of the religion of england , then to the ruine of the monarchy . n. c. you are not to stop my mouth with instances of tumults , and factions , in a peaceable plea for religion , and conscience . c. do not you know , that toleration is as good , as an issue in a government ? all the vicious humours in the whole body flow that way . but suppose it conscience ; are the dissenters ever to be reconciled ? shall we not have nem , and monstrous opinions propagated daily ? and will it not be every man's business , to advance the credit , and authority of his own party ? where is the bond of peace , in this exercise , and latitude of dissention ? the unity of the church , in this multiplicity of professions ? which is the true religion , among so many divided , and contradictory pretenses to it ? or rather ; is there any religion at all , where there is neither christian charity , stability of principles , reverence , or agreement , in god's worship ? n. c. i hope you will not deny the protestant interest to be the interest of the true religion : and undoubtedly , the bringing of the protestants into an union among themselves , is the advantage of every protestant state , ] and of protestancy it self . c. past all dispute ; and an uniformity of worship brings them into that union ; which is never to be attained , while the world endures , by a liberty of conscience . how was the protestant interest ( i beseech you ) united in the late dissolution of government ; when every man did that which was right in his own eyes ? examine the story well , and you will find reason to believe , that the church of rome has gain'd more upon us , since that unsettlement of ecclesiastical order , then perchance from the first hour of the reformation , even unto that very day . for liberty of conscience , did no less bring a civil war upon the protestant religion , then the pretended liberty of the subject did upon the state. it turned every man's hand against his brother . every man had a religi●…n to himself , and every man's conscience ( as i told you ) was his bible ; and we are still to presume , that like causes will produce like effects . it is also remarquable , that the lowdest , and boldest declamers against the orders of the church , proved likewise , the most pragmatical , and audacious invaders of the civil peace ; the antecedent schism serving only for a prologue to the ensuing sedition . n. c. this arraignment of their supposed principles , about government , may haply proceed upon mistake . there is reason to think , that the many late disputes , about prerogative , and liberty , are controversiae ortae , non primae ; that they had their rise from something else , which lies at the bottom . c. this is but peradventure i , peradventure no. for if a man may haply be in a mistake , he may haply too be in the right . i will grant ye likewise , that the disputes about prerogative , and liberty , had their rise from somewhat else , which lay at the bottom . that is to say ; it was not purity of religion , reformation of the liturgie , retrenching the exorbitant power of bishops , or scruple of conscience , ( as pretended ) that wrought the subversion of church , and state ; but it was the design , which lay at the bottom , of carrying on the great work of overturning the government , under countenance of that plausible imposture , and disguise . n. c. inclinations , and interests , more then speculative opinions , will be found to have born the sway , and caused those active motions , on the one hand , and the other . these dogmata , or problems about obedience , and government , do but little , where mens affections , and concernments do not give them spirit , and uigor . c. it is most certain , that problems draw no blood ; and we do not read , that ever any man's throat was cut , with a speculation , or a syllogism ; but yet , inclinations , and interests ( you allow ) may do much , towards mischief : so that , i have what i desire , if i am but able to make it out , that liberty of conscience will , most indubitably , beget strong inclinations in the people , to shake off the yoke of government ; and that they will not want specious appearances of interest so to do. first ; the servants of iesus christ ( as the non-conformists peculiarly stile themselves ) have this advantage of the subjects of temporal princes ; that they serve the better master : and the dignity of their spiritual profession supersedes the duty of their political allegeance . ( so often , as they shall think good , to stand upon that privilege ) by virtue of which prerogative , they do not only claim an exemption from the obligation , and reach of humane laws ; but a commission also , and authority , to reform those laws , ( in case of error , and corruption ) according to the standard of the gospel . now to this principle , and doctrine , do but add liberty of conscience ; and the people have law , and magistracy at their mercy already . for first ; they reckon themselves no further answerable either to the one , or to the other , then as they find them warranted in , and grounded upon the word of god. and secondly ; they may chuse whether or no , they will find any law , or magistrate , whatsoever , to be so warranted , or grounded ; and consequently , whether there shall be any government , or no. one man's conscience cannot allow this , or that injunction to be according to god's word : it may be lawful to another , but it is not so to him ; and hee calls for indulgence , and moderation . another man's conscience swears by the most high god , that it is point-blank against it ; and nothing will serve him , but utter extirpation . and whatsoever they call conscience , must pass for current . every man is to govern himself by his own opinion ; not by another bodies . it is no longer liberty of conscience , if a man shall be run down , and concluded , by prescription , authority , consent of fathers , scripture , reason , and the like , without being convinc'd . n. c. i thought you would have shewed me in what manner , or by what means liberty of conscience comes to turn the hearts , and interests of subjects against their superiors , as you said you would . c. a little patience , and i 'le be as good as my word . it has brought us to this pass , already , you see , that it has cast the government upon the good nature of the multitude , and made it purely dependent upon the breath of the people , whether it shall stand , or fall. so that ( in short ) the matter in question , falls under these two considerations . first ; whether a people , left to themselves , either to be under the restrient of laws , or not , will not rather agree to cast off a government , then to defend it . secondly ; whether they will not , likewise , find a very fair appearance of interest , and advantage , in so doing . the former , i think , will easily be granted , by any man that does but advise either with the common practises of the world , or with humane frailty : taking the world , either in individuals , or in parties . what says the artificer , the tradesman , the farmer ? why should we be put upon extremities of hard labour , course fare , rising early , and going to bed late ? ( and all little enough to keep our families from starving ) any more then such , and such ; that lie wallowing in ease , abundance , luxury , and riot ? but this we may thank the law for ; that has appropriated those possessions to particulars , which god almighty gave us in common . why should we be the drudges of the kingdom ? ( says the day-labourer ) the law is their enemy too , because it keeps them in awe , that they dare not steal . it is the same case , with traytors , felons , vagabonds , and all criminals . and so it is with factions , and associated parties ; we might set up this government , or this church ; and we , t'other , ( say they ) if it were not for those accursed laws , that make it death to endeavour such an alteration . this is a true , and naked accompt of the peoples thoughts , and reasonings , in the point of liberty , and obedience : and a sufficient proof of their inclination ( not against this , or that ; but ) against any establishment : it being the main end of government , to secure the community against the encroachments , and attempts of particulars : though to the very great damage , and ruine , ( many times ) of private persons , and parties . if you be satisfied now , that the people do not naturally love government , you need not doubt but they will judge it their interest to remove it : every male-content , enterteining himself with hopes of mending his condition upon the change. but alas ! this is not an undertaking for single persons , small parties , or petty factions , by themselves apart ; but some common medium must be found out , for the uniting of them all ; which , indeed , is amply provided for , in the project of liberty of conscience : and does not only facilitate the work , by drawing the disaffected into a body ; but it does also countenance , and encourage it , by authorising the separation . n. c. but to me , it seems , on the contrary , that an indulgence would set the peoples minds at liberty from fears and contrivances , for the avoidance of impendent dangers ; and encourage them to engage the utmost of their endeavours and abilities , in the businesses of peace , and security . ] c. as to the security , and peace of the publique , if enough be not already said , you may repair to the history of our late broils , for the rest : where you will also find the condition of particulars , to have been every jote as distracted , and unquiet ( in proportion ) as that of the government . you are to expect schisms in corporations , companies , families ; as well as in religious congregations : divisions , as well betwixt parents , and children ; masters , and servants ; as betwixt rulers , and subjects : feuds betwixt man , and wife ; betwixt brethren , kinred , friends ; and all these differences , variously influenced , according to the benignity , or malignity of their divided opinions . nor will it be any wonder , ( upon admittance of this liberty ) to have as many religions in a house , as persons : where the husband draws one way , the wife , another ; and the rest of the family have their ways by themselves , too . and this goes on , ( to the utter extermination of order , duty , and quiet ) till they have throughly wearied themselves , with tossing , and tumbling from one sect , or profession , to another . and then , when they are at their wits end , they commonly take up in the church of rome , with an implicite faith , in the conclusion . now if what i have said , may be of force sufficient to prove , that liberty of conscience , is destructive , both of religion , and government ; and of the peace of the kingdom , as well private , as publique . i cannot see how it should advance us , ( as is earnestly suggested ) in the business of trade , and plenty . n. c. we shall never have a flourishing trade without it : because the pressure in these things falls generally more upon the trading sort of men , then any in the nation . we may see it in the great city , and in all corporations : it makes many give over trading , and retire ; it makes others remove into holland , and other forreign parts ; as it did heretofore from norwich , to the irrecoverable prejudice of our cloathing trade , upon the like occasion ; and it certainly prevents all protestant strangers to come to live , and trade among us . c. the pressure ( you say ) falls most upon traders : i answer , that you begin with a non constat ; for the thing it self does not appear . and then , you make traders more scrupulous then the rest of the nation , who are not generally understood to be more conscientious ; as having divers temptations in the way of their employments , to strein a point of conscience now and then ; and they are but men , as well as their neighbours . if your observation be right ; we may thank the nonconforming ministers , who have had the handling of them . your urging , that want of liberty makes many give over trading , and retire , does not agree with their observation , that place their wonder on the other side , that so many hold ; considering the circumstances of a long , and expensive war with the french , and dutch. ( the most expensive that ever this kingdom undertook ) and two of the most dreadful , and destroying iudgments that ever almighty god laid upon this nation , i. e. pestilence , and fire , one upon the neck of another . you object , the removal of others into holland , as formerly . indeed it is not for the credit of your cause to mind us of those that formerly left us . take the peins to read bayly's disswasive , pa. . and there you shall see what work they made in holland : even such , that peters himself was scandalized at it ; quitted his congregation , and went to new-england . bridg , sympson , and ward , renounc'd their english ordination , and took ordination again from the people . the people , after this , deposed mr. ward ; and the schism betwixt sympson's church , and bridg his , was so fierce , that their ministers were fain to quit their stations ; and the dutch magistrate forc'd to interpose the civil authority to quiet them . in new england , their humour , and behaviour not much better ( according to the report of the same author , pag. , . ) of forty thousand souls , not a third part would be of any church ; and such heresies started , as a man would tremble to recite . if only such as these forsake us , the land has a good riddance . further ; if it was to the prejudice of our cloathing trade , ( this separation ) who can help it ? it was their fault to betray the interest of their country , by teaching the mystery to forreigners ; but no blame at all can be reflected upon the government , for refusing toleration to such lawless , and unruly libertines . now , as to the hindring of protestant strangers from coming over to us , and trading with us , it is a clear mistake , to imagine the church of england to be such a bugbear to those of the reformation abroad , as is pretended . ( which shall hereafter be made appear ) it is not the act of uniformity that hinders strangers , but the want of an act of endenisation ; which , perchance , the wisdom of future times will find convenient , for the supply , and repair of that depopulation which is brought upon us by our colonies . but to come to an issue . how was it with trade , when conscience took the full swinge ? it brought on a war ; and so it must again , or a standing army to prevent it . how many families were ruin'd , on the one side , with pure benevolence to the cause , in contributions , and enterteinments to the devourers of widows houses , and the captivaters of silly women ? and on the other side , as many were undone with taxes , and plunder . how went trading on , when all business was neglected , but gallopping up and down to lectures , to hear news , and sedition ? when prentices robb'd their masters , and took sanctuary in the service ? when publique faith was a tradesmans best security ; and the whole nation held life , and estate , at the good pleasure of a close committee ? n. c. let liberty of conscience be once fitly given , and the root of all mens hopes , and pretensions , that desire publique mischief , is pull'd up . c. fitly , will be well indeed ; but ( with your favour ) what is the meaning of fitly ? how shall we agree upon the dos ? unless you intend , that the magistrate is to continue giving , till the subject shall leave asking . and that must be : for , if ever he thinks of holding his hand sooner , he had better have done nothing . n. c. but what colour will there be for any further exception ? c. the very same they have now . new scruples will bolt new demands : and beside ; i should be glad if you would furnish me with any one instance , where the non-conformists were ever the better for indulgence . sect . xvii . this kingdom has been still the worse for indulging the non-conformists , and the party never the better . which evinces , that uniformity is the true interest of this government , and not toleration . c. upon queen elizabeth's coming to the crown , those non-conformists , that fled , in queen mary's days , and separating from the english congregation at francfort , went off to geneva , came back again for england : and with their libels , clamours , private consultations , and meetings , gave trouble enough to the government for the ten first years of her majesties reign ; who was , at that time , so beset , with the roman catholiques , on the one hand ; and the puritans , on the other , that she thought it well , upon that pinch , to save her self , without exercising rigor , and severity upon either party . this impunity gave them the confidence , a while after , to declare themselves for the geneva discipline , and ( in the fourteenth of her reign ) by an audacious pamphlet ( under the title of an admonition ) to press the parliament to a reformation . the principal abetters of this libel were discover'd , and clapt up ; and soon after , out comes a second admonition ; telling the parliament , in plain english , that , if authority would not , they must set it up themselves . and it was not long , ere they were as good as their words , by erecting several formal presbyteries up and down the kingdom . ( as appeared , upon undeniable proof , and confession of parties to the combination ) they had their synods ; their classical , and provincial conferences ; pronounc'd their decrees : concurring in the main against bishops , ceremonies , and common prayer . they had their agents throughout the kingdom , upon a strict survey of the value of every benefice ; the number of parishioners ; their quality , manner of life , and conversation . their book of discipline was long upon the anvile ; but at length , ( about . ) it was finished , communicated , and subscribed : with a promise , to observe it themselves , and to use all lawful , and convenient means to further , and advance it . in conclusion ; the whole matter came to be detected ; cartwright , snape , and several of the ringleaders , were examin'd , and committed : whereupon , coppinger , arthington , hacket , wigginton , &c. entred into a conspiracy for their deliverance ; and to have the blood of every man that should dare to give his vote against them , in the star-chamber ; nay , to depose the queen her self , in case of her refusal to promote the reformation . and all this , not without the privity , and tacit approbation of the most considerable ministers of the party . this was the blessed fruit of lenity , and forbearance under queen elizabeth ; the law iustled out by a faction ; a plot upon the life of the queen , and counsel , carried on , under colour of religion , and reformation . n. c. still i perceive , you pick out the foulest cases , and instances you can lay hold on , to match with ours . c. is it not rather your misfortune , to write after the foulest copies ? but to the business : what would you say , if his majesty now in being , had queen elizabeth's game to play ? apprehensions of his life , from iesuits , both protestant , and papist ? the whole generation of the non-conformists united against his person , and government , as well in iudgment , as in faction ? ( which are here divided into a thousand disagreements ) you would ( beyond all peradventure ) give the government for lost , without an immediate recourse to an act of indulgence , and accommodation , to preserve it . but the policy of those times made choice rather of another course ; some were imprison'd ; others , put to death ; according to the demerit of the offence . n. c. are you for punishing inconformity with death then ? c. no , by no means ; hacket , you know , was not put to death for inconformity , but for treason . and pray let me give you a brief of his story , as cambden delivers it . he was born at oundle in northamptonshire ; a poor , insolent , ill-natured , and illiterate fellow . he married a widow , spent her fortune in riot ; and when he had nothing else to trust to , betook himself to the imposture of religion , and an affectation of the geneva discipline : so far ingratiating himself with several of the prime zealots of that profession , that they did him the honour to make him of their council , in their grand design , ( to the execution whereof , he also pretended an extraordinary call , and commission from above ) he was ( in conclusion ) apprehended , charged with treason , found guilty , condemn'd , and executed . now to shew you the devil himself , in the shape of an angel of light , this hacket , as he was upon the hurdle , in the way to his execution , never left calling upon almighty god , with hideous outcries : and now behold ( says he ) the heavens are open , and the son of the most high coming down to deliver me . when he was come to the place of execution , he prosecuted his blaspemies , with more horrid , and furious exclamations : [ heavenly , and almighty god ; thou that art the alpha , and omega ; lord of lords , and king of kings ; thou eternal god ; that knowest me to be the true jehovah , that thou hast sent ; shew some miracle from heaven , for the conversion of these infidels ; and save me from my enemies ; or if thou dost not , i 'le set the heavens on fire , and with these very hands cast thee out of thy throne . i should have scrupled the bare recital of these blasphemies , were it not for the desire i have , to possess you with a due consideration of those execrable abuses , that are frequently imposed upon the world , under the visor of religion . the condition of the kingdom was doubtless very sad , that had such turbulent spirits to deal withal ; and yet we find , that by one severe law ( of the th of the queen's reign ) her majesty gave her self , and her people , quiet , as to that particular , for the whole remainder of her life . the penalties ( as i remember ) were these ▪ imprisonment without bail or main-prize , for being present at unla●…ul conve●…ricles ; the offender to be discharged , if within three months he made his open submission , and acknowledgment , in the form by the said statute appointed . but in case of recusancy to conform within that time , he was required to abjure the realm . and in case of refusing to abjure ; or of not departing within a limited lime ; or of returning without licence , to be proceeded against as a felon , without benefit of clergy . n. c. and yet you see , for all your new-modelling of corporations ; prohibiting of conventicles , removing non-conformists five miles from the place of their usual supports , and influences : nevertheless , the state ecclesiastical hath advanced little in the esteem , acceptance , or acquiescence of the people . c. this is very true ; and if other laws for the prevention of capital crimes , were no better executed , then that for uniformity , your argument would lie as fair every jot , for the toleration of murder , as it does now for schism . but however , it succeeded well with queen elizabeth ; and not worse with king iames , as appears by the story . his majesty ( under twelve years old ) took the government of scotland into his hand . the year following , the ministers presented a form of church-policy , to the parliament then sitting ; and upon the debate , matters were agreed , as far as possible , without prejudice to the king's authority , and the liberty of the subject : and these points were either referr'd to further consideration , or pass'd over in silence . the assembly took snuff at this d●…latory way of proceeding , and , without more adoe , pass'd a vote , for doing their own business , without asking the parliament leave . they began with the arch-bishop of glasgow : and presently fell upon the whole order , requiring them to renounce their temporal titles , their civil iurisdiction ; to decline their votes in parliament , and to submit themselves to a retrenchment of their episcopal revenues . their next step , was the demolishing of the cathedral at glasgow : but when the quarriers were just entring upon the work , the tradesmen of the town , in an uproar , threaten'd the undertake●…s , and so they quitted it : but not without a complaint to the council , of the insolence of the mutineers ; which came to this issue , his majesty justifi'd the tradesmen , and forbad the ministers any further meddling in the destroying of churches . and this was all the cheque they had for so lewd an outrage . in , the king wrote to the ministers , not to prejudge the decisions of the parliament , then approaching , by the conclusions of their assembly ; and to forbear the practice of any innovations , till their meeting . whereupon , instead of complying , they proceeded to a positive resolution of adhering to their former conclusions ; question'd the arch-bishop of st. andrews , for giving his voice in parliament ; and soon after , by an act of assembly , they commanded the bishops , under pain of excommunication , not to exercise the office of pastors , in any sort whatsoever , without licence from the general assembly ; and further directing , the patrimony of the church to be so disposed of , as they should judg reasonable at their next convention : thus , by degrees , growing bolder and bolder , upon forbearance . the particulars of their usurpations would be too tedious ; i could otherwise tell you of their iustification of the treasonous seizure of the king at ruthuen ; their propositions , and compleints in , with the king 's gentle return ; their covenants , and seditious practices , even to the encouraging ; and avowing of open rebellion . and still the more plyant , and easie his majesty was , the more contumacious , and untractable were these people . in the end ; what with the tumult at edinburgh , in ; and the ministers band of confederacy , immediately upon it ; the king was forced upon a resolution of rigor , and severity ; and ( as spotswood observes ) he received little or no opposition thereafter . at his majesties entry upon the government of england , the ceremonies of his first reception , and inauguration were scarce over , but he was assaulted with petitions , and importunities about the reformation of the government , and liturgie of the church : in the name of thousands of godly , learned , and conscientious men , that could not conform : whereupon , a proclamation was issued for a conference to be held at hampton-court , in ianuary , . so many bishops , and deans appointed for the church ; and for the petitioners , there appeared , dr. reynolds , dr. sparkes , mr. knewstubb , and mr. chadderton . the points in controversie , were particularly , and solemnly debated ; and in the end , such satisfaction given even to the plaintiffs themselves , that they all promis'd obedience ; and dr. sparkes became , afterward , an advocate for the orders of the church , and wrote a treatise for conformity . knewstubb indeed boggled a little , and desired to know , how far an ordinance of the church was binding , without offence to christian liberty ? upon which general question , the king turn'd short , and answer'd him ; le roy●…s ' avisera : let us have no more of those questions , how far you are bound to obey , what the church has once ordeined : but conform at your peril . while the business was fresh , they made a faint pretense of appealing to another conference : but upon second thoughts , they let it totally fall , and never gave the king any further trouble upon that subject . thus far , you see , the government has been preserv'd by strictness of order , and uniformity . we come now to those fatalities of tenderness , and relaxation that destroy'd us . n. c. you never consider , that the non-conformists are more numerous , and powerful now then formerly they were , by many degrees : and that the dissenters cause has got ground upon the church-interest , ever since . but follow your discourse . c. in the first of the late king ; was exhibited , in parliament , a petition , ( among other matters ) for the propagation of the gospel , and the restoring of silenc'd ministers ; to which , his majesty , return'd a gracious , and yielding answer , which produc'd a remonstrance of miscarriages in government ; insomuch , that his majesty was forced to dissolve that parliament . in the second year of his reign ; he call'd another parliament , which pursu'd the same method , and went a little higher then the former : so that the king was fain to dissolve that too . in the year following ; the king call'd another ; and upon their meeting , went somewhat a quicker way to work with them : minding them , in a short , and pertinent speech , of their past failings ; advising them to steer a more peaceable course for the future , and not to put him upon extremities , to provide for the safety of his people . this change of stile , and resolution , in his majesty , drew immediately from the commons , a grant of five subsidies . the king was too generous , and candid to take that present for a bait ; and relapsing into his former temper of charity , and softness , was presently accosted with the petition of right ; which , after some difficulty , and demur , his majesty passes : and after this , followed a petition , remonstrance , and protestation , which put an end also to that convention . look now a little into the scotch affairs , and observe the growth of the non-conformists demands , from one thing to another ; till in the end , by virtue of what the king granted them , they possest themselves of all the rest. in their tumults ( says his majesty ) they complein'd only of the service book . in their petition exhibited to the counsel ; they complein'd of the service-book , and canons . in their covenant they complein of , and abjure the five articles of perth . ( although establish't , first by a general assembly , and then by parliament ) after this , they complein of the high commission ; and then , of prelates sitting in civil judicatories . hereupon , his majesty commissions marquis hamilton , with full power , and authority , to conclude , and determine all such things as should be found for the good , quietness , and peace of that kingdom : directing him also to take the mildest course that might be , for the calming of those commotions . and what effect had this peaceable inclination of his majesty , upon the covenanters , but to blow them up into more seditious , and bolder practises , against the king's authority , and the publique peace ? they pursue their demands , and clamour for a free general assembly , and a parliament . his majesty gives them all their askings : indicts a free general assembly , and a parliament ; disch●…rges the service-book , the canons ; high-commission ; the ur●…ing of the five articles of perth : commands the subscribing of the confession of faith , and the band thereto annexed ; in the very form which they pretended to impose ; and offers them an act of indemnity for what was past . in all which condescentions , the king's patience , and mercy only served to heighten , and confirm those men in their undertaking , and to expose his royal dignity , to contempt . in the conclusion , the king had so far gratified their importunities , that they had nothing left to quarrel upon , but his majesties refusal to abolish episcopacy , and to admit the authority of their lay-elders . from hence , they brake out into open rebellion ; and ( when the king had them directly at his mercy ) upon the interview of the two armies near berwick , such was his tenderness , that upon their supplication for a treaty , he trusted them again , and concluded a pacification ; whereof the covenanters observ'd not so much as one article . upon his return to london , his majesty ( as is elswhere observed ) passes the triennial bill ; abolishes the star-chamber , and high commission court : passes an act for the continuance of the parliament . not to insist upon the several other concessions , concerning ship-money , forests , and stannary courts ; tunnage and poundage , knighthood , &c. now in requital of these benefits , the faction claps up , and prosecutes his majesties friends ; prefers , and enlarges his enemies ; rewards the scots ; entertains their commissioners ; votes them their dear brethren , for invading us ; calls in all books , and proclamations against them . they take away the bishops votes ; impose a protestation upon the people ; take away the earl of strafford's life ; charge twelve of the bishops with treason ; declare the king's proclamations to be false , scandalous , and illegal ; keep his majesty out of his own towns ; and seize his arms , and ammunition . they present him with nineteen propositions for the resignation of his royal authority . they vote a general , and raise an army against him . they usurp the power of the militia , and give the king battel ; levy moneys ; and declare the queen guilty of treason . after all these usurpations upon the civil power , they are put to 't to bring the cause of religion once again upon the stage : they enter into a covenant ; and call in the scots again ; they abolish the common-prayer ; secure the person of the king ; share the revenues of the church , and crown . they sequester , banish , and imprison his majesties adherents ; and in the conclusion , sell , depose , and murder their soveraign . this was the fruit of that pious , and unfortunate prince his clemency , and indulgence . now to bring the instance home to the present times : what could be more pious , gracious , or obliging , then his majesties declaration concerning ecclesiastical affairs , in favour of the non-conformists ? all that was possible for the king to do , in consistence with conscience , honour , and the peace of his dominions , his majesty has therein given them a frank assurance of . ( with their lives , and estates , over and above , in the act of oblivion ) and are they one jote the quieter for all this ? no , but the worse : for no sooner was the king's tenderness , in that particular , made publique , but the generality ( even of those that had lately entred into a regular , and dutiful compliance with the orders of the church ) started into a new revolt : which proves sufficiently , the benefit , and necessity of a strict rule , and the hazzard of a toleration : for rather then abide the penalty of the act , they could conform ; but upon the least glimpse of a dispensation , they rel●…pse into a schism . neither do i find , that they were less troublesom , before the act of uniformity , when they preach'd at randome , then they have been since ; nor , to say the truth , that they have much more cause of compleint , now , then they had then. for what are they the worse , for a penalty , that is never executed ? but if you will have a true measure of their moderation , and good nature : i pray'e take notice of their proceedings upon his majesties commission , for the review of the book of common-prayer . we will appoint ( says his majesty , in his declaration concerning ecclesiastical affairs ) an equal number of learned divines of both perswasions , to review the * same , and to make such alterations as shall be thought most necessary . so that the alterations were to be agreed upon by both parties , and found likewise to be necessary . now instead of alterations , joyntly agreed upon , they publish a complete liturgy of their own ; indeed a new directory ; but under the title of the reformation of the liturgie . ( which in all their books , signifies abolition ) give me the favour , next , to observe upon some of their necessary alterations . they have turn'd wedded wife , into married . doest thou believe ? into do you believe ? all this i stedfastly believe , into all this i unfeignedly believe . these are some of the important scruples , that are cast into the balance , against the unity of the church , and the peace of the kingdom . what is this , but to make sport with authority , and conscience ? laws must be suspended ; princes , vilified and importun'd ; because , forsooth , the godly party may not be govern'd by laws of their own making : nay , by words of their own chusing too ; so that we are like to have a schism , for syllables , as well as for ceremonies . for what is the difference betwixt wedded , and married , but that the one wears the stamp of the law-makers , and the other , of the law-menders ? is it not now evident , that they are the worse for good usage ? and that they have ever been so ? you see the effects of keeping to a rule , in queen elizabeth , and king iames : and we have since felt , to our cost , the effects of a relaxation : which abundantly satisfies me , that uniformity is the true interest of this government , and not toleration . n. c. uniformity is the interest of this kingdom , as it is of any other , where there is any fair possibility of procuring it . but the principles of dissent have taken such root in this land , that you may as well think of depopulating the nation , as of uniting it , upon the points in question . c. but i am otherwise perswaded ; and that the party of non-conformists is not so considerable , as you make it . sect . xviii . the party of scrupulous , and conscientious non-conformists , is neither numerous , nor dangerous . c. i am apt to believe that party is not so numerous as you represent it , for many reasons , first ; i take english mens consciences , and their neighbours , to be much of a make : and i do not find the subject of our controversie , to be made matter of conscience , by any other sort of christians whatsoever , out of his majesties dominions . n. c. 't is well we have good authority to the contrary . the preface to the directory assures us , that the liturgy used in the church of england , hath proved an offence , not only to the godly at home ; but also to the reformed churches abroad . and smectymnuus tells the parliament , ( pag. . ) that there is such a vast difference between it , and the liturgies of all other reformed churches as that it keeps them at a distance from us . c. we 'l talk of that anon ; and in the mean time ( with your good leave ) pursue what we have now before us . another thing that peswades me the conscientious number of dissenters cannot be very great , is this. the law has made an ample provision for their relief : leaving every houshold , with four more , at liberty to worship according to their own way . so that the laity has no pretense of compleint ; especially , those that plead for the ordination of their own ministers , and maintein , that seven persons make a full , ministerial , and completely organiz'd church . a man might make an exception to your accompt too , upon the score of old reckonings ; for you have ever had the faculty of multiplication . your thousands at hampton-court , came to a matter of nine and forty : and we remember very well , your old way of personating petitions , from multitudes of the godly , and well-affected , in both city , and country ; when , effectually , the poor innocent papers never travell'd farther , then from the close committee , to the lobby . n. c. if you will not credit report , believe your eyes . do you not find our meetings thronged , and many of your churches empty ? c. somewhat , of both , i must confess : but yet i am likewise inform'd , that you shew divers of these meetings , as peters did his rings , and bodkins , at several places , several times over and over , to make a noise , ond increase the reputation of your party . to contract the discourse . there is a loud clamour , and the ministers make it . and these too , that stickle in the cause , none of the most conscientious neither , unless they have a gospel we never heard of ; to iustifie disobedience in themselves ; the provoking of it in others ; the disturbing of the publique peace , and the sowing of dissention betwixt prince , and people : which is manifestly the scope of their writings , and designs . n. c. that undertaking goes somewhat too far , to pronounce upon their designs . do you pretend to know their hearts then ? c. yes ; and with very good authority , if a man may be allow'd to judge what reasonable men aim at , from deliberate words , and actions , that lead naturally , to such and such certain ends. and this humour ( i tell ye ) of aspersing the government , and teizing the multitude , runs through all their papers . i durst appeal to your own soul , whether you your self can imagine , that a twentieth part of the present plaintiffs in matter of conscience , are truly acted , and possest with that scrupulosity they pretend to . alas ! alas ! you talk of conscience : 't is not what every man thinks , or says , that is presently conscience . we are impos'd upon , by phansie , artifice , or delusion . some deceive themselves , and others cousen us. in one word ; whatsoever is not of conscience , in this medly , is faction : and undoubtedly , the conscientious party has but a slender share in the mixture . as that party is not numerous , so neither is it dangerous : upon a principle of honesty , and religion . no man of conscience , can either desire to embroyl the kingdom , or expect to be the better for 't . but still have a care how ye take every thing for gold , that glisters . conscience was the subject of the last quarrel ; religion , the pretext ; popery the bug-bear ; and the issue of it was dreadful . consider with your selves ; you have many of the same persons to lead you on ; and they have the very same matter too , to work upon . you meant no hurt to the last king , you say ; and yet you ruin'd him : you may perchance intend as little harm to this , and yet do him as much . and what amends is it , when the government is laid again in dust , and desolation , to cry , you were overseen ? if you had thought it should ever have come to this , you would have cut off your hands , or tongues ; and i know not what . look back ; and tremble at the course you are now upon ; for you are , questionless , in the very track of the late rebellion . and one may , without breach of charity , conclude , that no man that was an active instrument in the last war , can acquit himself of a most prodigious impiety , and ingratitude , in reviving , and prosecuting the same interest , and method now against the son , by which , he notoriously contributed toward the death of the father . sect . xix . the non-conformists appeal , from the government , and discipline of the church of england , to the judgment , and practise of the reformed churches beyond the seas ; examined , and submitted to censure . c. it is observable , that throughout the whole quarrel against the orders , and government of the church of england , the non-conformists still fly for countenance to the iudgment of the reformed churches , abroad : and so likewise in the question of toleration , they insist much upon the practise , and tenderness of other churches : as if the ecclesiastical state of this kingdom , were as singular , for tyranny , and corruption , as , in truth , the litigants themselves are for contumacy , and disobedience . in the answer of the two houses to the scots declaration , ●… . this government , by arch-bishops , bishops , &c. is declared to be evil , justly offensive , and burdensom to the kingdom ; a great impediment to the reformation , and growth of religion : and resolved it is , that it shall be taken away : with a regard to the introducing of another government , more apt to procure an union , with the church of scotland , and other reformed churches abroad . and the ministers , in the petition for peace , sing the same note too : if men ( say they ) must be cast out of the church , and ministry , because they are not wiser then the pastors of most of the reformed churches , &c. as who should say ; the church of england is the only protestant church in the christian world , that pretends to this way of proceeding ; and the protestants abroad , are all of the non-conformists side . let this matter be fairly examin'd , i beseech you , and we shall quickly see where the fault lies . in the first place ; what is the judgment of the reformed churches abroad , touching the english episcopacy ? n. c. you may read their , iudgments in their practises ; or 't is but looking into the reformation , in france , holland , and the neighbourhood , and you may resolve your self , in that point . c. truly i find nothing at all to your advantage , which way soever i look ; luther himself distinguishes betwixt popish tyrants , and true bishops , and professes to condemn them as popish , not as bishops . the authors of the augustane confession profess ; that they would willingly preserve the ecclesiastical , and canonical politie , if the bishops would cease to tyrannize over their churches . bucer declares himself wholly , for bishops , and metropolitans : and melancthon to luther ; you would not imagine ( says he ) how some people are nettled , to see church-polity restor'd : as if it were the romish sovereignty again . ita de regno suo , non de evangelio , dimicant socii nostri . as if the quarrel were dominion , not religion . calvin acknowledges , that the ancient government , by arch-bishops , and bishops ; and the nicene constitution of patriarchs , was for orders sake , and good government . and delivers himself to cardinal sadolet , with an anathema upon the opposers of that hierarchy , which submits it self to jesus christ. zanchie ( the compiler of the gallican confession ) observes a change of name , rather then of office , throughout most of the german churches : as super-intendents , and general-super intendents , in the place of bishops , and arch-bishops : acknowledging that by the consent of histories , counsels , and the ancient fathers , those orders have been generally allowed by all christian societies . where they are in exercise , let them continue ; and where , by the iniquity of the times , they have been abolish'd , they ought to be restor'd . beza ( the rigid successor of calvin ) in excuse to the arch-bishop of canterbury , for meddling beyond his sphere : — we do not charge ( says he ) all arch-bishops , and bishops , with tyranny . — the church of england hath offorded many learned men , and many glorious martyrs of that function . if that authority be there still , may a perpetual blessing go along with it . this , in the name of the whole church of geneva , and addressed , to the primate of all england . totius angliae primati . saravia , arguing for the hierarchy out of the apostles canons , beza returns him this answer . this is no more , then what we wish might be restor'd to all churches . [ quid aliud hic statuitur , quam quod in omnibus locis , ecclesiis restitutum cupimus ? the three kingdoms of swede , denmark , and norway ( as mr. durell observes ) retein the order still , of bishops , and arch-bishops . in the protestant cantons of switzerland , there is also a subordination of ministers . and so in the palatinate ; in hessen ; the duke of brandenburgh's territories ; anhalt , bremen , poland , lithuania , &c. come we now into france , holland , and geneva . and first hear mr. du bosc of the reformed church of caen. well-ordered episcopacy hath most important , and considerable utilities , which cannot be found in the presbyterian discipline . mr. gaches , one of the ministers of charenton . the best men in our churches ( says he ) have honour'd the prelates of england . — the name of schism may do more harm to the church in one year ; then the exc●…ss of episcopal authority can do in an age. and again : sin hath brought in the necessity of government ; and the failings of ministers make the order of bishops necessary . mr. le moyn , of rouen , pronounces it to be want of prudence , and charity , if any seek the ruine of bishops . [ i trust that his majesty will be sure to re-establish the authority of the english church , and use his power for a perfect re-union of all the reformed churches ; which that be may effect , his majesty must preserve his bishops . i hold it impossible ( says mr. gayon of bourdeaux ) that england can ever be quiet , and flourish , but under the episcopal government . in holland , bogermannus , ( the president of the synod at dort ) upon a suggestion from the bishop of landaff , how fit a remedy episcopacy would be for the suppression of heresies , and schism , made this reply ; domine , non sumus adeò foelices ] we are not so happy , my lord. and for geneva , we have the voices of the principals of that church also , for the authority , and advantage of episcopal government . so that if you be no better seconded against our ceremonies , then you are against our bishops , you have the whole stream of protestant divines against you . this is according to what i have formerly had occasion to deliver , upon this subject . n. c. we do dissent , upon just reasons , from the ecclessastical hierarchy , 〈◊〉 prelacy , ( disclaimed in covenant ) as it was stated , and exercised in these kingdoms ; yet do 〈◊〉 , nor ever did renounce the true , ancient , primitive episcopacy , as it was balanced , or menaged by a due commixtion of presbyters therewith . c. we are not here to debate the qualifications , and limits of the episcopacy you pretend to : but to proceed , having made it appear , that the hierarchy , which , ( under colour of reduction , or commixtion ) you formerly rooted out , and are now again undermining ; is that very hierarchy , which you have now heard reverenced , and recommended by so many venerable testimonies . or , if after all this , you can but produce one publick act of any protestant church , beyond the seas , in favour of your claim , do it ; and save your party the credit , of not being single , and particular in your schism . what have you next to say against our ceremonies ? n. c. all the best reformed churches of christ , ( who only are competent iudges in this case , and to whose iudgment , and example , we ought rather to conform our selves , in ceremonies , then to the synagague of anti-christ ) do esteem those ceremonies , needless , inexpedient , and fit to be abolished : how the churches of other countries approve of them , may appear sufficiently by this , that they have banished the use of them out of their assemblies . c. are they only needless , inexpedient , and fit to be abolish'd then ? i thought you would have found them absolutely unlawful , idolatrous , and upon pein of damnation , not to be reteined . according to this measure , what will become of the whole frame of our government , if it shall take you in the head , to say the same thing of every law , and constitution of the land ? ceremonies will not down with you , because they are needless , inexpedient , &c. i beseech you , shew me the needfulness of killing , and plundring , or the expedience of dissolving publique laws , and depopulating kingdoms : and yet these are matters you can swallow , even without chewing . needless ? and inexpedient ? so●…ly , i beseech you ; you are for teaching your governours more wit , as well as more religion , and conscience . n. c. ●…eep to your text i pray'e ; for we are not now upon the lawfulness of the english ceremonies ; but upon an enquiry , what enterteinment they receive in the judgment , and practise of other reformed churches : without engaging our selves in any other consideration of their reason , and convenience . i say , they are banish'd out of their assemblies , and you are at liberty ( if you can ) to prove the contrary . c. let us first see how far we agree upon the allowance of any ceremonies at all , and where to place the right , and authority of imposing them . the church of england thinks it convenient , that every country should use such ceremonies as they shall think best , to the setting forth of god's honour , and glory , &c. which is according to the sense of other reformed churches , as appears by their several confessions . with us agrees , first , the church of helvetia . [ churches have always used their liberty in rites , as being things indifferent . which we also do at this day . that of bohemia likewise : [ humane traditions . and ceremonies , brought in by a good custom , are with an uniform consent to be reteined in the ecclesiastical assemblies of christian people , at the common service of god. the gallican ; [ every place may have their peculiar constitutions , as it shall seem meet for them . the belgique ; [ we receive those laws that are fit , either to cherish or maintein concord , or to keep us in the obedience of god. that of auspurgh ; [ ecclesiastical rites , which are ordein'd by man's authority , and tend to quietness , and good order in the church , are to be observed . that of saxony ; [ for order sake , there must be some decent , and seemly ceremonies . that of swethland ; sueh traditions of men , as agree with the scriptures , and were ordeined for good manners . and the profit of men , are worthily to be accounted rather of god then of man. n. c. the question is not , about an agreement in ceremonies that may be exercised without offence , either to god , or man ; ( according to your instances ) but about their liking , or dislike , of those in practise among us : as the surplice ; kneeling at the communion ; the cross in baptism , and the like . c. as to the surplice ; mr. durell tells you , that the churches that conform to the confession of augsburgh , have the very same ceremonies with the church of england : and surplices in many places . and further ; that a national assembly at charenton , anno . hath declared , that there is neither idolatry , nor superstition in that worship . the protestant ministers also in bohemia , lithuania , prussia , make no scruple at all of preaching in surplices , whensoever they are called upon to preach where surplices are used . nay , calvin himself , does not approve of hooper ' s violent inconformity in that point . [ de pileo , & veste linea , maluissem ( ut illa etiam non probem ) non usque adeo ipsum pugnare : idque nuper suadebam . and let mr. baxter pin the basket. some decent garment is necessary ; either the magistrate , or minister himself , or the associated pastors must determine what . if the magistrate or synod tie all to one habit , ( suppose it indeoent ) yet this is but an imprudent use of power , and the thing it self being lawful , i would obey , and use that garment . n. c. you only make mention , where it has been used , and permitted ; but you take no notice where it has been rejected . and then the personal authorities you cite , in favour of it , declare their iudgments to be still against it . c. but only so against it , as not to allow of a separation , upon that scruple . now whereas you object the refusal , or rejection of it , elsewhere : it does not follow , that every church disallows , what it does not practise : and it shall content me , to find the practise of so many churches for us , and none , against us . as to kneeling at the communion ; the bohemian churches use that posture , and so do the churches of poland . with whom , the french , and dutch do so far agree , as in hoc ritu , suam cuique ecclesiae libertatatem salvam relinquere . to leave every church at its own freedom , in that particular . ] mr. baxter in his five disputations , does also profess , that rather then disturb the peace of the church , he would kneel too ; how hardly soever he may think of the imposition . so that in the case of kneeling , likewise , we have several of the reformed churches that joyn with us in the practise of it , and not so much as any one of them , that appears in our condemnation . touching the use of the cross in baptism ; ( beside the undeniable antiquity of the custom ) you may hear from mr. durell , that the reformed churches of the confession of augsburgh , do for the most part , use it ; and that at paris , many children of the church of charenton , have been baptized in the chappels of the english embassadours there , according to the rites of the church of england . and moreover , that only the nonconforming english , and scotch oppose it . i could enlarge my self , upon very good authority , to the justification of our way of worship , throughout , in every particular of your exceptions ; but i will rather chuse to encounter all your objections at once ; by proving , that the protestant churches , abroad , have as great a reverence for the authority , rites , and ceremonies of the church of england , in the whole frame of the constitution , as they have a kindness for the several parts of it , which they do severally exercise among themselves . i must still be beholden to the industry of the reverend durell , who has much obliged us with a clear , and methodical manifestation of the agreement of the church of england , ( as it is now established by the act of uniformity ) with other reformed churches beyond the seas . sir iohn colladon ( one of his majesties physicians in ordinary ) had the honour to congratulate his majesties restauration , from the city and church of geneva , and from the protestant cantons in switzerland . upon his departure , he put this quaere to the rulers of the said church ; whether he might lawfully joyn with the church of england , in publique worship , and receive the holy sacrament according to the usual rites thereof ? it was answer'd , that he might ; and that it was not to be question'd . here is also , a whole french reformed congregation , that hath conformed to the rites , and ceremonies of the church of england , to the great satisfaction of the divines of rouen , paris , geneva , bourdeaux , &c. and since the establishment of this church , divers ministers have come over , from geneva , france , germany , poland , lithuania , piemont ; students , elders , private persons : and none of them ever yet refused , either to assist , or to conform . mr. de laune , minister of the wallons church at norwich ; and mr. calendrin , one of the ministers of the dutch church in london , have divers times officiated in english congregations , according to the book of common prayer of the church of england ] without any scandal , either given or taken . nay , so far are they from disowning us , that the french divines hold them for schismatiques , and punishable , that refuse communion with us . * bucer thanks god with all his soul , to see the english ceremonies so pure . n. c. and have they , i beseech you , their set forms ? their peremptory impositions ? their declarations , and subscriptions ? c. yes , yes : all this , and more . for set forms , methinks you should rather tell me any one reformed church that wants a set form , then put me to the trouble of naming all that have . calvin , and beza are positive for them . geneva , much more severe for the observance of them , then we are here ; inconformity there , is cause of banishment for a year : and the gallican church makes it a matter of excommunication . in geneva ; calvin establish'd his discipline by an oath , both upon people , and pastors , to observe that form for ever after . the ministers take an oath of canonical obedience , in hungary ; and the french divines are not admitted , without subscription . there 's no imposing upon publique laws , with private scruples : no bandying allow'd , betwixt conscience , and authority : he that will not submit to the orders of a community , away with him . ( says calvin ) it is not enough to take cheque at the constitutions of the church , under colour of a weak conscience ( or so pretended ) but you must be fully satisfied , that the constitution is wicked in it self . nay , calvin carries it further . suppose it really ministers matter of offence ; ( says he ) that will not serve to vacate the obligation , unless it be also found to be simply , and in it self repugnant to the word of god. [ quia tamen verbo dei perse non repugnat , concedi potest . to provide against evil consequences , is the magistrates duty , not the subjects . n. c. the worship of god , is in it self pure , and perfect , and decent , without having any such ceremonies affixed thereunto ; [ and many faithful servants of the lord , knowing his word to be a perfect rule of faith , and worship , have ever been exceeding fearful of uarying from his will , and of the danger of displeasing him , by additions , or detractions , in such duties . c. you will hardly find any honest president for this nicety . ( calvin would have given it a worse name ) testatum velim ( says he ) me non de ceremoniis litigare , quae decoro tantum , & ordini serviant : vel etiam symbola sunt , & incitamenta ejus quam deo deferimus reverentiae . he declares himself , you see , not only for ceremonies , of order , and decency ; but for ceremonies of significancy , and incitement to reverence and devotion . and in another place , ergone ( inquies ) nihil ceremoniarum rudioribus dabitur , ad juvandam eorum imperitiam ? id ego non dico ; omnino enim utile illis esse sentio , hoc genus adminiculi . ] will you allow of no ceremonies then at all , ( you 'l say ) for the instruction of the vulgar ? you do not hear me say so ; for i am clearly of opinion ; that they are of very great use , and service to the people . upon the main ; the english non-conformists , ( as mr. durell well observes ) are a sort of people by themselves : and non-conformists , at geneva , and francfort , as well as at canterbury , or london . n. c. but still , methinks , whatever our consciences are as to the way of publick worship , we might yet be indulged with an allowance of ●…erving god among our selves . why should a toleration do worse here , then in holland ? c. i might answer you with another question . why should a commonwealth do worse here , then in holland ? or why should a standing army do worse here , then in holland ? beside ; if you look narrowly into it , you will find the dissenters from the settlement there , to be rather strangers , then natives . english , french , high-dutch , that flowed in to them upon the general revolt from the church of rome : lutherans , and anabaptists , out of germany ; calvinists out of france ; separatists , and semiseparatists out of england , in the days of queen mary , and independents , since ; all which were entertein'd , more out of regard to policy , then conscience ; their business being at that time to shake off the yoke of spain , and change the government : to which end , these several parties contributed effectually , by preparing the people for the alteration intended ; and inuring them to new principles , both of religion , and state. and yet you are not to understand theirs to be a perfect toleration neither . for you see , they would not , upon any terms , allow that freedom to the arminians , which they did to others ; but conven'd a synod , and exterminated the sect. the reason was , they had a jealousie of the arminians , for barnevelt's sake , the head of that party . you are to take notice also of the great difference betwixt the interest , and condition , of our ministers , and theirs . our clergy have a freehold in their benefices for term of life ; and if they be factiously disposed , they may evade the law , and do a mischief , without making a forfeiture . whereas theirs preach upon good behaviour ; live upon the states pay ; and upon the least colour of offence , may be turn'd off at pleasure . i need not tell you what havock , peters , bridges , sympson , ward , made in holland : but what they did abroad , the same thing they would have done at home , if they had been tolerated . n. c. what do ye think of poland then ? c. i think , that story speaks little to your advantage : take it either in respect of their frequent seditions , or in regard of their prodigious , and heretical opinions : and yet they live under the strongest obligation in nature to keep them quiet ; the tartar , and other powerful neighbours , lying hard upon them ; which makes their case to be rather an agreement against a common enemy , then among themselves . n. c. now take all at the worst ; it is but athanasius against the world , and the world against athanasius . number and truth , are not always of a side . c. and yet your multitudes make up a great part of your argument . this however let me speak for you ; there has no industry been wanting to propagate your profession . in the year . the scotch discipline was presented to the synod at dort , for their approbation : but they would not meddle with it . anno . upon the reprinting ( at geneva ) of a collection of the several confessions of faith , received in all the reformed churches of europe ; under the title of , corpus , & syntag●…a confessionum fidei , &c. it was moved that the thirty nine articles of the church of england , might be left out , and the assembly mens confession , put in the place : but the motion was totally rejected ; the thirty nine articles inserted , and not a word of the directory . they had no better luck with their covenant neither , then with their discipline . [ the ministers , and others of the consistory at charenton , and of other reformed churches in france ; as also the professours , ministers , and consistory of geneva , and of other neighbouring reformed churches in those parts , were so scandalized with this prodigious covenant , as that they were afraid of nothing more , then this , that it would bring an indeleble scandal upon the reformed churches , and alienate the minds of all the princes of christendom , from ever enterteining a good thought of their religion . the venerable assembly of english divines , and scotch commissioners ( as they stiled themselves ) sent the copy of their covenant , and a solemn invitation to seventeen reformed churches beyond the seas to ioyn with them . their letter should have been latin ; but so it was , that they left it a measuring cast , whether they were the better christians , casuists , subjects , or grammarians . their skill was most employ'd , in exhorting the french protestants to follow their example , and cast off the yoke of antichrist ; ( that is to say , of obedience ) and in calumniating their sovereign , as a confederate with the popish interest , to destroy the protestancy . which design , was only to be obviated , by a holy league . this was the drift of the address ; but we never heard syllable of the answer . there needs no more be said to prove the judgment of the reformed churches strong , and unanimous against you ; and you had best make a trial , if you can supply by reason , and argument , what you want in countenance , and authority . sect . xx. the non-conformists exceptions to o●… publique way of worship , found guilty of great impiety , and errour . c. what are your exceptions to our way of worship ? are they general ; or particular ? is it th●… imposition it self , or the thing imposed , that displeases you ? n. c. why truly both. the one takes away my christian liberty ; and the other , the liberty of my conscience . the greatest part of my trouble , i●… the act of uniformity . c. is it the model , or the uniformity you stick at ? n. c. both alike ; for neither is the particular act fram'd to my satisfaction ; nor is it possible that any one form of worship should suit all iudgments . c. will toleration suite all iudgments , any better then uniformity ? but , i perceive , you do not accompt the sanction of any one form whatsoever to be lawful . n. c. indeed i do not think it lawful for a magistrate to enjoyn any thing upon a penalty , which a private person may not conscienciously obey him in ; nor do i think it warrantable , for a man to obey any humane command , against the dictate of his conscience . c. put this together now . first , it is not possible that any one form of worship should suit all judgments : and then , it is not lawful to enjoyn any thing upon a penalty , which does not suit all judgments . what is this , but a meer trifling of government ; to suppose a law , without an obligation ? again ; if the magistrate cannot impose , neither can he tolerate ; unless you 'l suppose him a more competent judge of four conscience , then of his own : for you allow him to understand what he may tolerate , and deny him the knowledge of what he may impose . so that either he has no power , or no reason to favour you : no power , as you state his capacity ; and no reason , as you disclaim his authority . but you were saying , that the imposition , takes away your christian liberty . as how , i beseech ye ? n. c. in making those things necessary , which christ left free. for wherein does christian liberty more concern it self , then in the free use 〈◊〉 indifferent , or the forbear●…nce of doubtful things , which we are bound entirely 〈◊〉 preserve ; and whereof , by your ecclesiastical injunctions , we stand depriv'd ? c. if the king be ty'd up , in matte●… that are either commanded , or forbidden ; and the people left at liberty , in things indifferent : i would fain know what authority has to work upon . but thi●… point will fall in of it self by and by : though enough be said already , to prove your position utterly destructive of order , and society . for there is but good , bad , and indifferent , in nature : what we are bound to do ; what we are bound not to do ; and what we may either do , or let alone . ( that is to say , without the interposal of some incidental obligation to determi●… that indifference ) the asserters of this doctrine , fetch their warrant for it , out of st. paul 〈◊〉 the galatians . . stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free. upon this text they ground their exemption . but here they prudently st●… too ; for the context would have spoil'd all : and they might as well have argu'd against the efficacy of christ's death , from the latter part of the second verse , as for christian immunity , ( in the latitude they understand it ) from the former part of the first . the apostle goes on in these words ; and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage . 〈◊〉 behold ; i paul say unto you , that if ye be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . for i testifie again to every man that is circumcised , that he is a debtor to do the whole law. the case , briefly , was this. by the coming of our blessed saviour , the iewish ceremonies were abolish'd : some that had a mind to continue them , and keep the people still under the yoke of the law , stood for the doctrine of the circumcision . ( which was here the very matter in q●…estion ) the apostle cautions the galatians against it ; and not to be entangled again with the bondage of the law. which amounts only to a discharge from the bondage of that law to which they were before subjected ; without extending that liberty , to the prejudging of authoritative laws , and impositions for the time to come . as if the apostle had preached one thing to the galatians , and the contrary to the romans , obedience , at pleasure , in one place ; and obedience under pein of damnation , in another . in the second , and third verses , st. paul ( you see ) clears , and presses it further . as if he had said ; be circumcised at your peril . for that single point of the law , makes you answerable for the performance of every title of it . we are not ( says calvin ) ( perperam ad peliticum ordinem ) perversly to apply the doctrine of spiritual liberty , to political order , as if christians were to be ever the less subject to external government by humane laws , because their consciences are set at liberty before god. nay , says he , in another place ; si ecclesiae incolumitati benè prospectum volumus ] the church can never be safe , without st. paul's decency and order . but in regard of the diversity of customs ; and the variety of mens minds , and opinions ; it is not possible to secure any polity , without the authority of certain laws ; or to preserve any order , without some stated form. now so far am i from condemning any laws conducing to this end , [ ut his ablatis , dissolvi suis nervis ecclesias , totasque deformari , & dissipari contendamus ] that i look upon the removal of them , as the dissolution of the very sinews of the church , and expect nothing after it , but deformity , and dissipation . nor is it to be imagin'd , that all things should be done decently , and in order , ( after the apostles precept ) but by the mediation of certain rules , and observations , which may serve as so many bonds for the regulation of that decency , and order . always provided , that those ceremonies be not imposed as necessary to salvation , or essential to god's worship . from your plea for christian liberty , ( which is a proposition , in it self , destructive of all communities ) let us now move to your next exception , in the matter of scruple : wich i am afraid will be found no less intolerable in religion , then the other was in government ; and dangerous enough in both. it would take a man an age to run through all the quirks , and niceties of the question ; and to trace every particular , in dispute , from the original of its practice , or institution . and beside ; it were but actum agere ; for the lawfulness , and the antiquity of bishops , liturgies , and ceremonies , with all the minutes , sion : i am perswaded , it would pose the ●…est conveyancers in this kingdom , to draw up a deed of trust , to that purpose , without a flaw in 't . that is to say : a commission from the diffusive body of the people , must be directed to such and such ministers , as commissioners for tender consciences . from heaven it never came neither , i do verily believe . for most certainly christ , and his apostles , never issued out any commission , for the distracting of consciences , and societies . we read indeed of confirming the weak , but not a syllable , of staggering them . and for the extraordinary ways , of vision , and revelation , they are not so much as mention'd . n. c. if you would have given me leave , i should have told you , e'en now , that they are warranted by a sense , and impression of conscience , in the discharge of their pastoral duty : which obliges them , [ to watch over their flock ; to preserve them from errours , heresies , divisions ; to defend the truth , confute gainsayers , and seducers , instruct the ignorant , excite the negligent , encourage the despondent , comfort the afflicted , confirm the weak , rebuke , and admonish the disorderly , and scandalous . c. here 's much against you , and no●…●…ne word in your favour . instead of preserving their flocks from heresies , and divisions , your pastors demand a down-right toleration of them . and instead of encouraging the despondent , comforting the afflicted , and confirming the weak ; they tell the distressed , ( for their comfort ) that if they do any thing with doubting , they shall be damn'd ; and never go further , to deliver them from those doubts ; but there they very fairly leave them , surrounded with in●…xtricable scruples ; and their very souls , broken , and confounded with agony , and horrour . whether they do well , or ill , now be you your self the iudge . my opinion is , that they have as little to say for the conscience of their proceedings , as any way else . first , their very preaching , and writing , ( by reason of their legal incapacity ) is a transgression of the law. secondly , in the matter it self , they are to blame ; for it is of very evil consequence , both upon the publique , and upon particulars . to sa●… nothing of their undertaking for other mens consciences , which is a privilege belonging only to god himself . that they do ill , in disobeying the law , and in troubling the government , i suppose you will not deny ; and yet am i perswaded , that the very foundation of their plea for separation , and dissent , is the greatest part of the mischief . we have laws ecclesi●…l , for the ordering of the church ; and you refuse to obey them ▪ for what reason , i beseech you ? n. c. the best guide in the case of impositions , and obedience , i take to be the word of god and our doubtings sure are very reasonable , concerning god's worship ▪ where the scripture gives no direction . shew us where they are comma●…ded in the gospel , and we are ready to obey them . ; c. the scripture is the rule of our faith , not of our outward actions , and practise . 〈◊〉 whatsoever , to make up the doctrine of man's salvation , is added , as in supply of the scriptures insufficiency , we reject it . but does it therefore follow , that all things lawful to be done , are comprehended in the scripture ? admit . this , and god in delivering scripture to his church , should clear have abrogated amongst them , the law of nature , which is , an infallible knowledge imprinted in the minds of all the children of men , directing us in the choice of good and evil , in the daily affairs of this life . admit this ; and what shall the scripture be , but a snare , and a torment to weak consciences , filling them with infinite perplexities , scrupulosities , doubts insoluble , and extreme despairs . not●… that the scripture it self doth cause any such thing , but the necessities of this life , urging men to do that which the light of nature , common discretion , and judgment of it self directeth men unto : on the other side , this doctrine teaching them that so to do , wire to sin against their souls ; and that they put forth their hands to iniquity , whatsoever they go about , and have not first the sacred scripture of god for their direction . how can it chuse but bring the simple a thousand times to their wit●… end ? how can it chuse but v●…x and amaze them ; to be obliged in every action of common life , to find out some sentence of scripture , clearly , and infallibly setting forth , what we ought to do ? admit this , and it shall not be with masters , as it was with him in the gospel ; but servants being commanded to go , shall stand still , till they have their errand warranted unto them by scriptures . thus far the learned hooker : in agreement with mr. calvin , ( the oracle of the other party ) in his chapter of christian liberty , who writes to this effect . let every man have a care not to make things indifferent , matters of religion ; for nothing can be more necessary then the right understanding of that liberty ; without which , we shall never have any peace of conscience , and there will be no end of superstition . [ quae si aberit , nulla conscientiis nostris futura est quies ; nullus superstitionum finis ] he that scruples the lawfulness of eating , or drinking delicacies , will by degrees , let his scruple fall to meats and drinks l●…ss delicats , and so from one thing , to another , lower , and lower ; ( and all this while , in a perpetual anxiety of conscience ) till he comes at last to satisfie himself , that what he takes , both for quantity , and quality , is but just sufficient to entertein the absolute necessities of nature . he must have a text for every thing he does ; and not step over a straw , without consulting scripture first : and every common action is made a case of conscience . from this miserable perplexity of mind , what can be expected , but despair , and confusion ? hanging , drowning , cutting of throats , and all the wretched extremities of violence , which those poor creatures exercise upon themselves , as their last retreat , to avoid the fury of a tormenting conscience . this is the fruit of the doctrine of christian liberty ; a dangerous , and an impious position ; and can have no other aim , ( in truth , scarce any other issue ) than the vacating of humane laws ; and the extermination of all principles of duty , and subjection out of the hearts of the people . but to be as short as may be , you see the effects of your scruples ; pray'e speak a little to the grounds of them . what exceptions have you to our common prayer ? and see if you do not from one end to the other , fall foul upon your arguments . n. c. it is devised by men. c. so are your ministers prayers ; and ●…l prayers whatsoever , scripture-forms excepted . n. c. it is imposed upon the minister , and people , of necessity . c. the imposition of the directory was yet more general , strict , and peremptory . there was no dispensation for a family , and four more , which , as it might be improv'd , takes in well nigh the whole kingdom . n. c. but your common prayer is stinted , both in matter , and words , to be used without variation : and so was not the directory . c. why may not the church impose a stinted form upon the minister , as well as the minister , ( if he so pleases ) upon the people ? for if the minister be left at liberty either to keep to one form , or to vary , at his own election , the congregation is at his mercy , whether they shall have a stinted form , or no. smectymnuus is so gracious as to allow of a stinted form , himself ; in case the minister shall be found insufficient to discharge the duty of prayer in a conceived way : but then it is to be imposed on him as a punishment : to use set forms , and no other . so that it is not the unlawfulness it seems , of a set form , nor the imposition , but the inexpedience you stumble at : and the world is at a fine pass sure , when the parliament of england shall not presume to make laws , without asking the si●…c'd ministers opinions first , about the expedience of them . the directory , as to the matter of it , is as well a stinting of the spirit , as the common prayer . for in the sulstance , and scope of the prayer , the minister is limited ; only for the wording of it , he is at his own freedom : and if he may but turn almighty and most merciful father , into omnipotent and most gracious lord god , the peace is concluded . otherwise we are to look for nothing but fire and sword : lives , laws , and liberties , must be hazzarded i●… the quarrel . n. c. do you make no difference between imposing set forms , upon a few insufficient ministers , and upon a multitude of others , in common , that have the gift of prayer ? c. no , none at all , as to the exemption of any man from the general rule . beside ; what security can any man give , that he shall continue in the right exercise of his reason ? put case your gifted minister should be taken with some distemper that seizes the brain , and disorders , ( or but clouds ) his understanding : nay , let it be only some faint , drowsie indisposition of body , or heaviness of mind ; what becomes of the assembly , under so languid , spiritless , ( and perchance extravagant ) a dispensation ? further : the right , and the reason too , of imposing upon one minister , extends to all. again : if a set form may be admitted , where the minister is not good at extempore ; what becomes of your argument , i beseech ye , for the consciences of the congregation ? unless you understand the weakness of the minister to be a dispensation for the scruples of the people ; in which case , it may be lawful for the king and parliament to impose a service-book . and yet again : over and above the vanity , and the arrogance of the undertaking ; do me but the favour to consider , what an irreverence , what a prophanation of gods holy worship , and ordinances , must needs ensue upon it . the desk is turn'd into an oratory , as well for the tryal of gifts , and faculties , as for the exercise of them : and half the business the congregation has at church , is to hear men talk to god almighty , upon their probation : which is done too , ( god knows it , even at the best ) not without great imperfections , and failings ; witness their [ affectations , emptiness , impertinency , rudeness , con fusion , flatness , levity , o●…scurity , vain , and ridiculous repetitions , their sensl●…ss , and oft-times blasphemous expressions : ] which are but helps at a plunge , either to gain time for the recovery of their lost matter , or to stop gaps , and fill up broken sentences . now where 's the life , and power ( as you call it ) of devotion , all this while ; when the whole man is taken up , ( and all little enough too ) about words , and periods ; and the ministers chief care diverted from the saving of souls , to the saving of his own credit ? hence proceeds that agreement of tone , and emphasis , in all their exclamations , acted passions , and vain repetitions , with now and then a groan drawn out to a most doleful length for a parenthesis . for they are all sick of the same disease , and these interjections give them a little breath , and respit , for recollection . now in this loss of sense , ●…nd order , how is it possible for the affections of the congregation , to keep company with the minister in all his wandrings , doubtings , and circumlocutions ? the one half of their intention is spent in divining ( before-hand ) what he drives at ; and the other , in unriddling his meaning , when he has deliver'd it . whereas in set-forms , both minister and people are freed from these distractions , and totally intent upon the duty of the worship : and there is a greater harmony , and union of affections , when they pray all at the same time , in the same words , and for the same thing . i might insist upon the inconvenience of leaving ministers at liberty , for fear of disturbing the publique : and tell you over and over , that in our stinted forms we do but joyn in the common privilege of other churches : but more then enough is spoken already . let me hear now what you have to say against our ceremonies . n. c. whereas kneeling is imposed , in the act of receiving the lord's supper , we desire that none may be troubled for receiving it standing , or sitting . c. you have quitted your hold , i perceive , of scriptural direction , and president . for neither standing , nor sitting was the tricliniary posture . but why not kneeling , as well as either sitting , or standing ? n. c. because it is a novelty ; contrary to the decrees , and practise of the church , for many hundred years after the apostles . and it has been forbidden by general councils . and it is not good also to shew a needless countenance of adoring the bread of god. c. can you shew me that kneeling at the lord's supper has been forbidden , where kneeling at other parts of publique worship has been allow'd ? now you your selves allow of , and practise kneeling in other cases , which is every jote as contrary to the ancient custom , as our kneeling at the sacrament . but we must not kneel , you say , for fear of countenanceing the adoration of the breaden god. to which i answer , that first , the doctrine of our church speaks directly to the contrary . secondly , the rubrick directs kneeling at the confession ; and the people continue kneeling , at the receiving . n. c. but with your favour , the rubrick does afresh enjoyn kneeling : and order the communion to be delivered into the peoples hands kneeling . c. right . and now take your choice , whether we shall rather run the hazzard of being suspected to adore the breed , because we receive it after the english gesture of worshipping , which is kneeling ; or incur the same censure , by changing posture , and taking it after the ancient way of worshipping , which is standing ? if you can make appear , that where the custom was to worship standing , they received , kneeling ; you say something toward the perswading of us that worship kneeling , to receive stànding . your exceptions throughout , are much of a quality ; negatively imposing upon authority , because you will not be positively bound up your selves . for , you shall not do this , or that , is an imposition , as well as you shall . another humour you have gotten , of scrupling at ceremonies , because they are made as necessary to salvation , as the word it self , and the sacraments . ( this is the suggestion of the petition for peace , pa. . ) whereas it has been , and still it is the constant care of the imposers themselves , by an express solemnity of explanation , to satisfie the whole world to the contrary . give us leave only for one word more , and that out of calvin's institutions , concerning scandal ; ( lib. . cap. . ) which you make one part of your compleint . there is ( says he ) a scandal given , and taken . the one is the scandal of the weak ; the other , of the pharisees ; who out of a p●…rverse malignity of spirit , turn every thing to the worse . there is no yielding to this sort of men ; no enduring , no hearing of them : [ qui quum in mille impietatis formas duces se praebent , sic sibi agendum fingunt , ne proximo sint offendiculo . who , under colour of tenderness in the matter of scandal , make no conscience at all of a thousand gross impieties . this is his iudgment , and our case : and there is no remedy , but by concluding upon a final , and unaccomptable iudge . sect . xxi . whatsoever god hath left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . c. as reasonable nature consists of soul , and body ; so is the authority that governs it , divine , and humane : god , eminently over all , and princes ministerially , under him , and as his substitutes . the dominion of our souls , god reserves peculiarly to himself , committing that of our bodies to the care of the magistrate . now if power be a divine ordinance , so consequently is subjection ; for to imagine the one , without the other , were to destroy the reason of relatives . a strict , and accurate disquisition of this matter , would save us much trouble that arises about the bounds , and limits of our duty ; how far religion binds us , and how far allegeance . that they are severable , we are not to doubt , since truth it self has said it . give unto caesar the things that are caesar ' s ; and unto god , the things that are god's . but that they are only so severable , as never to become inconsistent , is founded upon the same immovable rock ; let every soul be subject , &c. a precept , of a perpetual , and universal operation , and limited neither to time , place , not persons . n. c. your deduction of government , and subjection , from divine institution , is well enough ; and that we are to obey the magistrate for god's sake , and in subordination to god , is easily prov'd , and granted : but i hear nothing yet of the particular bounds , and terms of humane iurisdiction ; what 't is belongs to god , and what to caesar. c. and that , i confess , is the pinch of the question : for one duty comes up so close to the other , that 't is not for every common eye to pass between them . effectually , they touch ; but in what point , is of a nice decision . the nearest way to the knowledge of our duty , is to apply it to the laws , and powers of the authority : for a man must first know the rule , before he can observe it . we are then to consider , that the almighty wisdom has invested kings with an unlimimited power of commanding , or forbidding , in all matters , which god himself has not either commanded , or forbidden : which proposition resolves it self into this conclusion . whatsoever god has left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . n. c. does not that opinion destroy christian liberty ? c. no : but the denial of it destroys magistracy . if kings have not this power , they have none at all : and it implies a contradiction , to suppose any authority in nature without it . n. c. but may not a prince tye himself up , in a thing otherwise indifferent ? c. i speak of power according to the institution , not of power limited by p●…ction . n. c. may not the same thing be indifferent to one , and not to another ? c. very good : and will not every thing imaginable . appear non-indifferent to some or other ; if nothing may be commanded , but what upon such a phansie may be disobey'd ? n. c. pardon me : i do not speak of matters of civil concern , but of matters of religion . c. that 's all a case ; for you cannot instance in any one civil action , that may not be made relative to religion . but we are now upon the extent of humane power . that there is such a power , and that , authoriz'd too by god himself , you have already granted . let me but understand now , upon what subject shall that power be exercis'd ; if you exclude things indifferent ? one man may have a real scruple , and all the rest , pretend one . who shall distinguish ? so that the rule holding from one to all , the sacred authority of the prince becomes dependent upon the pleasure of the subject ; and the validity of a divine , and unchangeable ordinance , is subjected to the mutable iudgment , and construction of the people . n. c. and you expect , the magistrate should as well have the authority of iudging what 's indifferent , as of restreining it . c. you may be sure i do ; for i am but where i was , if i make you the judge . is it not all one , as to the magistrate , whether you refuse , upon pretense that the thing is not indifferent , or upon pretense , that he cannot restrein a thing indifferent ? the crime indeed is differing in the subject : for the one way , 't is an usurpation of authority ; and the other way , 't is a denial of it . n. c. why then it seems , i am to believe every thing indifferent , which the magistrate tells me is so , be it never so wicked . c. no ; there you are bound up , by a superiour law. n. c. have you so soon forgot your self ? you would not allow me to be a iudge , just now ; and here , you make me one . c. right . to your self , you are one , but not to the publique ; you are a judge of your own thought , but not of the law. n. c. and does not this way of arguing as much endanger authority , as the other ? for all may iudge thus , as well as one. c. 't is possible they may . nay we 'l suppose an imposition foul enough to move them all to do so ; and yet there 's a large difference : for diversity of iudgment does not shake the foundation of authority ; and a man may disobey a sinful command , with great reverence to the power that imposes it . n c. you were saying e'en now , that my duty to god , and to the king , could never be inconsistent . how shall i behave my self , i pray'e , if the king command one thing , and god another ? i cannot observe the law , without violence to my conscience , nor discharge my conscience , without offence to the law. what course shall i take , to avoid enterfering ? c. demea●… your self as a christian , toward the law of god , one the one hand , and as a subject , toward the ordinance of god , on the other : as considering , that you are discharg'd of your obedience in that particular , but not of your subjection in the general . n. c. put case the supreme magistrate , should by a law , establish a false worship . c. he 's nevertheless your prince , and even in this complication , you may acquit your self both to god , and to caesar. though the worship be amiss , the magistrate is yet to be reverenc'd ; and you are to divide the one from the other ; in such manner , as still both to fear god , and honour the king. this loyal , and religious separation of our duties , will set us right in the main controversie . where do ye find that kings reign , upon condition of ruling righteously ? or that we owe them less , after misgovernment , then we did before ? n. c. but do you say , we are bound to honour an idolatrous prince ? this is not according to the doctrine of many of our grave divines . c. they are never the better divines for that doctrine . the prince , i tell ye , you are bound to honour , though not as an idolater . shall the vice , or errour of the person , degrade the order ? by that rule , the world must continue without a government , till we can find men without failings . n. c. so that , when it makes for your turn , you can allow ( i see ) of distinguishing betwixt the person , and the office . c. betwixt the frailty of the one , and the sacredness of the other , i do : for kings command , as gods , though they iudge , as men. but i do no more approve of dividing the person of a prince , from his authority , then of dividing his soul from his body . n. c. and i beseech you , what is that , which you call authority ? c. it is the will , and power of a multitude , deliver'd up by common consent , to some one person , or more , for the good , and safety of the whole : and this representative acts for all. now on the other side , the disposition of such , or such a number of persons , into an order of commanding , and obeying , is that which we call a society . n. c. what is the duty of the supreme magistrate ? c. to procure the welfare of the people ; or , according to the apostle , he is the minister of god , for a comfort to those that do well , and for a terrour to evil doers . n. c. how far are his laws binding upon his subjects ? c. so far , as they that parted with their power , had a right over themselves . n. c. whence was the original of power ? and what form of government was first ; regal , or popular ? c. power was ordein'd of god , but specifi'd by man : and beyond doubt , the first form of government was monarchique . n. c. but i should rather think the popular form was first : for how could there be a king , without a people ? c : so was the son before the father , you may say , for how could there be a father without a son ? but the q●…estion is ; first : was the world ever without a government , since the creation of m●…n ? secondly ; whether was there first in the world , one man , or more ? but we are not here upon the form of government , but upon the latitude of humane iurisdiction ; be the sovereignty where it will. and my assertion is , that it extends to whatsoever god has left indifferent . if you deny this , you overthrow all government . n. c , and what are you the better , if i should grant it ; unless we could all come to an agreement , about what is indifferent , and what not ? c. which must be procured by the allowance of some iudicial authority to dec●…de it . sect . xxii . no end of controversie , without a final and unaccomptable judge , from whose sentence there shall be no appeal . c. when subjects come once to dispute laws , the war is already declar'd against the government . for it is not the equity or iniquity of the matter of the law , that is the question ; but the authority of the law-maker ; under the countenance indeed of somewhat that might be mended in the law it self . and the business comes immediately to this issue ; whether the king , or the people , shall determine , in what concerns the good of the community ? that is to say ; whether the government shall stand , or fall ? whether or no we shall submit our selves quietly to be over-ruled in all controversies , by a definitive sentence of law ; ( according to the end , and intention of government , in its first institution ) or otherwise , by receding from that common , peaceable , and impartial arbitrator of all our differences ; from our faith given ; our oaths , and contracts : throw our selves back again into a state of nature , and dissolution ; and for want of a moderator , leave all our disagreements to be decided by the sword ? ( the certain event of all popular appeals , from laws , to multitudes ) this was tbe ruine of us , in our late confusions . the faction , you saw , could do nothing , upon the suggestions of right , or wrong ; convenience , or inconvenience ; till they came to make themselves the iudges of it : and no sooner were they possest of that pretension , but all went presently head-long to destruction . from questioning the legal power of the king , they proceeded to the exercise of an arbitrary power , themselves : from asserting the subjects liberties , to the invading of them : and from the reformation of abuses , to the extirpation of the government . the two houses led the dance , and outed the king ; the commons did as much for the lords ; and the people , as much for the commons : which comes to no more , then what was reasonably to be expected , upon turning the course of publick affairs into a wrong channel ; and subjecting the indisputable rights of sovereign authority , to the censures , and expostulations of the rabble . n. c. what are those indisputable rights , i beseech ye ? c. i reckon ( among others ) the power of making laws ; and likewise of enforcing the execution of them ; without admitting any sort of demur , or contradiction : for let the people break in once upon any one law , and they will hardly quit their hold , till they have worm'd out , or unsettled all the rest. in short ; i do esteem it a matter of absolute necessity , to the peace , and the very beeing of all government , to have some unaccomptable iudge ; some unquestionable expedient of law , or authority , for the ending of controversies : the determination to be final , and decisive : no appealing from it , and no contending beyond it . n. c. what not in case of errour ? i could be well enough content with a iudge ; and with indispu●…able laws , if you could but assure me of infallible law-makers . but i should be sorry to see a roman-infallibility set up in england . c. so that rather then a fallible iudge , you will have none at all . you could be content with a iudge , you say ; but then that iudge must be questionable , in case of errour ; so that another iudge is to judge him ; and the very iudge of this iudge , is himself questionable ; and so is his iudge , and his iudges iudge ; ( in infinitum ) in case of errour : which case of errour may be alledg'd , wheresoever there is no infallibility ; and if there be no infallibility in nature , then by your rule , there can be no iudge in nature . n. c. i do not say but a man may iudge certainly in some cases , though not infallibly in all : and all i ask , is only a free exercise of my iudgment at discretion , without being ty'd up to an implicit resignation . there is but a right , and a wrong ; and the one i must embrace , and reject the other . how shall i know this from that , without enquiry ? and what am i the better for that enquiry , if when i have learn'd my duty , i am debarr'd the liberty to practise it ? c. you turn the question , from the necessity of a judg , to his infallibility . 't is all one to me , whether you make him infallible , or credible , or what you make him , or where you place him ; provided that he be acknowledg'd necessary , and unac●…omptable . that he is necessary , i presume you will easily afford me : for there can be no peace without him , every man being at liberty to wrangle , where no man is authoris'd to take up the strife . but would you have him unaccomptable , or no ? n. c. what greater encouragement is there in the world , to tyranny , then the opinion of an unaccomptable sovereignty ? c. what is it rather ( you should have said ) that excites sedition , and depopulates kingdoms , so much as the contrary ? and doubtless , the fiercest tyranny is much more supportable , then the mildest rebellion . n. c. truly , as to the convenience of a definitive sentence . i should be glad to see it ; without the hazzard of a d●…finitive injustice . c. you mistake your self , if you oppose a possible injury on the one side , to a certain wrangle ; and confusion on the other . if infallibility you cannot find , why may not the fairest probability content you ? n. c. but would you have that probability govern by unquestionable , and authoritative conclusions ? c. by any means ; you do nothing else : for where controversies are inevitable , and concord ( if it may be had ) necessary ; what can be more reasonable , then to chuse the most competent iudge of the matter in controversie , for the concluding umpire of the controversie it self ? n. c. but a man may iudge probably in one case , and improbably in another : suppose the determination to be manifest errour , or injustice ; would you have the same submission paid to it , as if it were equity , and truth ? c. yes : to the determination , though not to the errour : you are to stand to the authority of the sentence , without contesting the equity of it : for right , or wrong , 't is a decision . the principal scope , and sure end of a reference , is peace : the hopeful event , and issue of it , is righteous iudgment . is it not well then , to be sure of the one , and in so fair a likelihood of the other ? put it to the worst ; you are not bound to be of the iudge his opinion , but to be over-rul'd by his authority : neither do you undertake that he shall judge critically , as to the subject of the question ; but that he shall judge effectually , as to the purpose of the reference . n. c. this resignation may do well , in cases of ●…ivil interest : but it will hardly hold in matters of conscience . who shall pretend to iudge of my conscience , beside god , and my self ? c. the scripture , which is the rule of all consciences , shall be the iudge of yours . but the question is not , what the conscience is , but what it ought to be : not what your private iudgment says , but what the scripture means ; and the thing i strive for , is a judge of that : a iudge of the rule of faith ; which i take to be all out as necessary , as a iudge of a political law. you cannot but allow , that there are diversities of opinions , as well in religion , as concerning secular affairs : and such is our corruption , that we draw poyson , even from the fountain of life ; and the word of god it self , is made the warrant of all crimes , and the foundation of all heresies . look behind ye , and you may see a prince murther'd by his subjects : authority beheaded by a pretended law , and all this defended by a text. the church devour'd by a divided ministry ; the government overturn'd by a solemn league and covenant to support it : an arbitrary power introduc'd by the patrons of liberty : the lord's prayer cashier'd , to make way for the motions of the holy ghost ; and charity it self extinguish'd for the advancement of the gospel . we have liv'd to see as many heresies , as congregations ; and a consistorian scrutiny , prest beyond the rigour of a spanish inquisition . we have seen some that a abhor idols , committing sacrilege : christ's kingdom cry'd up , till his b divinity is deny'd . strictness of life inculcated , till the very rule of it c ( the decalogue it self ) is rejected : and blasphemy hunted out of the tavern , into the pulpit . in fine ; what sin , and misery have we not known , and felt , since under the form of liberty of conscience , this freedom of a private spirit came in vogue ? nor are we ever to expect better from it , till all men shall conspire to do the same thing , where every man is left to his own gust , to do what he pleases . and whence flows all this mischief , and confusion , but from a license of wandring from the rule ? methinks these practises should put you , and your cause out of countenance . n. c. i am no advocate for anarchy , though no friend to uniformity : and i know 't is with non conformists , as with other people there are good and bad of all sorts . but to go with the moderate : would you have all mens consciences gobern'd by the same rule ? ; c. better particulars suffer for incompliance with the publique , then the publique suffer for complying with particulars . uniformity is the ciment of both christian , and civil societies : take that away , and the parts drop from the body ; one piece falls from another . the magistrate ( for orders sake ) requires uniformity ; you , and your associates oppose it , upon a plea of conscience . the question is ; whether he shall over-rule your opinions , or you over-rule his authority ? this dispute begets a war , for want of a iudge ; and to prevent that consequence , i offer that a iudge is necessary . or put it thus : you , and i differ ; and possibly we are both in the wrong ; but most certainly we are not both in the right ; and yet neither of us but thinks well enough of his own opinion . what 's to be done in this case ? shall we wrangle eternally ? n. c. no , we 'l rather put the matter to arbitration . c. well ; but the arbiter himself is fallible ; and may mistake too : or let him have the wisdom of an angel , he cannot please us both : for that which seems right to the one , will appear wrong to the other . shall we stand to his award whatever it be ? if not , take into your thought these consequences . you refuse to submit , because it is wrong ; and i may refuse , by the same reason , though it be right : ( for , every man's reason is of equal force , where there is no common , and representative reason to bind all. ) so that by your reckoning , every man is in the right to himself , and in the wrong to all the world besides : ( for i perswade my self , that nature never produc'd two persons , in all points , of the same judgment . ) now , if you can neither deny confusion to be the natural effect of this liberty of iudgment ; nor the want of a regulating , and decretory sentence , to be the cause of this confusion , i hope you 'l grant me the necessity of an unaccomptable iudge . n. c. is not the word of god a sufficient iudge ? c. no : that 's no iudge , but [ a rule for christians to iudge by ] and the great danger lies upon the meaning of that rule . witness those swarms of heresies , that have over-spread this land , since the bible has been deliver'd up to the interpretation of private spirits . n. c. you say well , if you could direct me to a iudge that we might all rely upon . c. and you say something too , if you could make appear , that none at all is better then the best we have : or that popular errours , numberless , and inevitable , ( with the dissolution of societies to boot ) are to be preferr'd to the few , and only possible failings of authority , attended however with peace , and agreement . the question , briefly , is this. whether will you rather have ; one fallible iudge , or a million of damnable heresies ? n. c. truly , as you have reduc'd it , to a certainty of peace the one way , and to as great a certainty of discord , the other ; to a certainty of many errours , without a iudg , and to a bare possibility of some few , with one : i think a final iudge may be convenient , if not necessary . c. if you find it so in the church , sure you will not dispute it in the state ; especially against an experience too , the most forcible of all reasons . we were never troubled with constructive necessities ; with cavils about the receptacle of power , and the limits of obedience : with distinctions betwixt the political , and the natural right of the people ; the legal , and the personal will of the prince ; and betwixt the equity , and the letter of the law : till judgment was forc'd from its proper course , and the decision of political controversies , committed to the frivolous , and tumultuary arbitrations of the people . n. c. nay , i am as much for a iudge , as you ; but not for one iudge to all purposes : nor indeed , for any iudge so absolute as you would have him . c. i tell ye again , a iudge , and no absolute iudge , is no judge : and you shall as soon find the end of a circle , as of a controversie , by such a iudge . nor is it yet my intention , that one iudge should serve for all purposes . n. c. divide your matter then , and assign to every iudicable point its proper iudge . c. you have reason ; for truly i do not take the magistrate to be any more a iudge of my conscience , then i am of his. n. c. no doubt of it ; and it were an encroachment upon the prerogative of god himself , for the magistrate to challenge it . c. how comes it now , that we , that accord so well in the end , should differ so much in the way to 't ? but i hope the clearing of the next point will set all right : for after the acknowledgment of the general necessity of a iudge , we have nothing further to do , but to agree upon the iudge , and so submit . sect . xxiii . the three great judges of mankind , are god , magistrates , and conscience . some things we do as men ; other things , as men in society ; and some again , as christians . in the first place , we are acted by the law of individuals ; which law , in the second place , is subjected to that of government ; and both these laws are , in the third place , subordinate to that of religion ; i. e. the law of god's revealed will. so that the three great iudges of mankind are , god , magistrates , and conscience . man as consisting of soul , and body , may be again subdivided within himself . take him in his lower capacity , and he is sway'd by the general law of animal nature , but in his divine part , you will find him govern'd by the nobler law of refined reason ; which reason , in some cases , we call prudence , and in others , conscience , according as it is variously exercised . the things which we do purely as men , ( abstracted from any ingredients of policy , or regulated religion ) are either natural actions , prudential , or moral . of the first sort , are those actions to which we are prompted by a natural impulse , in order to the conservation of life , and being . of the third sort , are such actions as we perform in obedience to moral principles . ( which are no other , then the divine will , as it is couched under the dictate of humane reason ) and betwixt these two , lies the region of middle actions : that is , of such actions , as although not of simple , and strict necessity , either to life , or virtue , are notwithstanding useful , and commodious , for the guidance , and comfort of the one , and for the practice of the other . the accurate disquisition of this interest clears the main difficulty of the question ; for nothing has embroyl'd us more , then the mistaken rights , and privileges of individuals : which mistakes being once made manifest , by laying open the subordination of several claims , and powers , every man may take a distinct view of his own province . n. c. if you will proceed regularly , you are to state these subordinations as you go . c. agreed ; and we are now upon the right of individuals : in which naked simplicity of considering man , without any regard to the ordinary motions of providence , in the order , and regiment of the world , we shall yet find a natural subordination within himself , and the law of sense , under the dominion of the law of reason , in the same subj●…ct . these are the laws which the apostle calls the law of his members , and the law of his will. the former law ( and the less excellent ) is the law sensitive ; which is no other , then the law of self-preservation . ( the supreme law of animal beings , as it is of rationals the lowest ) this law sensitive , is no other than the manifestation of god in the creature : for what sense does , nature does ; and what nature does , god does . n. c. but what is that power all this while , which you call nature ? c. it is the ordinary working of god in all his creatures ; by virtue of which divine impression , and influence , every thing is moved to seek the utmost perfection whereof it is capable . as for the purpose ; the perfection of man is the congruity of his actions with his reason ; which is nothing else , but that which we call virtue . the perfection of beasts lies a degree lower : for they are only mov'd by a sensual impulse , towards what is convenient for them ; and when they have it , they rest. n. c. when people are gravell'd , they fly to their impulses , and occu●…t qualities . where lies the difference ; i beseech you , between their impulse , and our choice ? c. their impulse carries them on through a sensitive search , not any d●…liberative discourse ; and there is no e●…ection neither at last : but only the simple prosecution of a determinate appetite , without imagining any proportion betwixt the means , and the end. n. c. but still we find , that there is a proportion : and the motion appears to us according to the method of reason : and a very orderly proceeding from a question , to a resolution . c. is it reason , think ye , that makes a dog follow his nose , and hunt for meat , when he is hungry ? or will you call it choice , if he leaves a turfe for a bone ? now if you ask how this comes about : he is guided by instinct toward the end ; and sense carries him thorough the means . n. c. but why should the same process of means , and the same application of causes , be ascribed only to instinct , in brutes , and to reason , in man ? c. you are to take notice , that all natur●…l operations are regular , and ordinate , by what means soever performed : but it does not follow , because the method is according to reason , that therefore the instrument must be reasonable . but to mind what we are upon . the law of self-preservation , is a law common to beasts with men ; but not of equal force , and obligation : for their sovereign interest is life ; ours is virtue : and therefore your late argument for defensive arms , under pretense of that extremity , was but a brutish plea : for if the consideration of virtue be not above that of life , where lies the advantage of our reason ? n. c. but when the death is certain , and the virtue doubtful , who shall decide the point ? c. in a case abstracted from the ties , and duties of religion , and government , every man's reason sits as iudge upon his own life . as for instance ; you are in the hands of thieves , and only this choice offer'd you , either to take a false oath , or to lose your life . your conscience tells you , that you must rather perish , then forswear your self : but if you can preserve your self , without violence to a superiour duty , you are your own murderer if you do not . thus far i think we are safe , and i suppose agreed , that every individual is to govern himself by his natural conscience . but when the several particulars come to be bundled up in one community , the case is otherwise . n. c. i am sorry to hear you say that . why should not every man be govern'd by his own conscience , as well in consort , as in solitude , as well in company , as by himself ? or will you have it , that our duty to god ceases in the act of becoming subjects to a civil power ? c. as to your conscience , you are as free now , as you were before : but your body is no longer your own , after you are once enrolled a member of a society . and here 's the difference ; you were your own servant before , and now you are the king 's . ( for what is government , but the wisedom , resolve , and force of every particular , gather'd into one under standing , will , and body ? ) and this comes up to what i have already deliverd , that , whatsoever god has left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . n. c. but who shall be iudge of what 's indifferent ? c. let that be examined the very next thing we do . you are already satisfied , that an auth●…rized iudge is absolutely necessary , in order to the pe●…ce of church , and state , and to the ending of all publique differences : but we are not yet resolv'd about our iudges ; or if we were , yet in regard they are but men , and so may erre , [ infallibility being departed with christ and his apostles ; in lieu of which living , and infallible guides , god has in providence given us a plain , and infallible rule ] we are now to make enquiry , how far a private judge may be allow'd to oppose , or differ from a publique , in case of a reluctant conscience , and in some sort to iudge his iudge ? n. c. you say very well ; for place the ultimate decision where you will , it is ( as you said before ) an infallible determination as to the strife ; but not so , as to the truth ; and comes at last to this , that every man ( in some degree ) re-judges his iudge . if i be fully convinc't , either , that the command is sinful in it self , or the opinion wicked ; i am neither to obey the one , nor to embrace the other ; as being tied up by a general obligation of rather obeying , and believing god , then man. nay more ; if in obedience to the magistrate , i commit a sin against god , and do it ignorantly too , that very act in ignorance is crimin●…l : ( if i had the means of being better inform'd : ) for no humane respect c●…n justifie an offence against god. now if i am bound to do nothing that is ill ; i am likewise bound , before i do any thing , to satisfie my self , whether it be ill , or no : for otherwise , i may follow a false religion for a true , and be damned in the end , for not minding what i did . this do i take for proof sufficient , that no man is so implicitely obliged to rely upon other mens eyes , as totally to abandon the direction of his own ; or so unconditionally to swear obedience to other mens laws , and perswasions , as to hold no intelligence at all with that sacred law , and faithful counsell●…r which he carries in his own b●…som . c. i am so far from advising you to reneunce your reason , that , on the contrary , i would have you absolutely guided , and concluded by it ; and only to obey for quiet sake , so far as you can possibly obey in conscience . n. c. what if a single person hit that truth , which a general council misses ? which will you have him follow ; truth , or authority ? c. i would have him follow truth with his soul , and authority with his body . but it is not for so remote a possibility as this is , to bring the fansies and imaginations of a private spirit into a competition with resolutions of law , and yet for the possibility sake , we 'l take the very supposition likewise into consideration , and word the whole matter as plainly as we can . the church says , ye may do ; and the law says , you must do , that which your conscience says , you ought not to do. how will you reconcile your duty , and your conscience , in this case ? n. c. uery well : for i think it my duty to obey my conscience , upon this principle , that conscience is god's substitute over individuals . c. keep to that , and answer me once again ; is not the civil magistrate god's substitute too ? if he be , how comes your conscience to take place of his authority ? they are both commission'd alike , and consequently , both to be obey'd alike : which is impossible , where their commands are inconsistent . n. c. the magistrate is a publique minister , and his commission does not reach to particular consciences . c. and on the other side , you are a private person , and there is as little reason for your opinion to operate upon a publique law. so that if i mistake you not , we are upon accord thus far ; that every particular is to look to one , and the king to the whole . now if you would deal as candidly with me , about the ecclesiastical power , as you have done in the civil , we might make short work of this question . i hope you will not deny that the church is as well a authorized to teach , and instruct in all the external acts of worship , as b the magistrate is to compel to those external acts. n. c. there is no doubt , c the church ( as the church ) has a ministerial power ( ex officio ) to define controversies , according to the word of god ; and that d a syn●…d lawfully conven'd , is a limited , ministerial , and bounded visible iudge , and to be believed in , so far as they fellow christ , the peremptory and supreme iudge , speaking in his own word . c. this will not do our business yet ; for to say , that a synod is to be believed in , so far as it follows christ , seems to make those the iudges of that act , that are to be concluded by it ; and leaves the credit of the authority , dependent upon the conscience , fancy , or humour of the believer . for 't is but any man's saying , that the synod does not follow christ , and that he trusts in it so far as it does follow him. and this is enough to keep the controversie afoot , without any hope of decision . n. c. we are indeed to believe truths determined by synods , to be infallible , and never again liable to retraction , or discussion ; not because [ so says the synod , ] but because [ so says the lord. ] c. still you are short ; for 't is not in our power to dis●…elieve what we acknowledge to be a truth : but that which is truth at the fountain , may be corrupted in the passage ; or at least appear so to me , and what then ? n. c. it must be look't upon as an errour of the conscience ; which is no discharge at all of your obedience : from which errour you are to be reclaimed , either by instruction , or censure . for the people are obliged to obey those that are over them in the lord , who watch for their souls , as those who must give an accompt ; ] and not oblig'd to stand to , and obey the ministerial and official iudgment of the people . he that heareth you ( ministers of the gospel , not the people ) heareth me ; and he that despiseth you , despiseth me. c. why should not we two shake hands now , and join in the act for uniformity ? you cannot say , that it wants any thing of the full complement of a binding law ; either in regard of the civil , or of the ecclesiastical authority . here is first , the iudgment of the church duely conven'd , touching the meetness , and conveniency of the rites , and forms therein conteined . you have next , the royal sanction , approving , and authorizing those rites , and forms ; and requiring your exact obedience to them . now so it is , that you can neither decline the authority of your iudges , nor the acknowledgment of your duties ; what is it then that hinders your obedience ? n. c. that which to me is more then all the world , it goes against my conscience . c. only that point then , and we have done with this subject . we have already concluded , that god is the iudge of the world ; that the church is the iudge of what properly concerns religion ; that the civil magistrate is iudge of what belongs to publique order , and peace ; and that every man's conscience is the iudge of what concerns his own soul. the remaining difficulty is this ; how i am to behave my self in a case , where the law bids me do one thing , and my conscience , another . to take a true estimate of this matter , we are first to ballance the two interests , that meet in competition ; the one , for the law , and the other , against it . there is , in favour , and for the execution of the law ( meaning that of uniformity ) . the personal conscience , and . the political conscience of the king. there is moreover , for the equity of it , the solemn and deliberate iudgment of the church ; which is , effectually , the publique conscience ; and lastly , for the observance of it , there is the duty of the subject , which , if it be withdrawn , does not only invalidate this particular act , but it loosens the sinews of sovereign authority ; and which is more , it destroys even a divine ordinance ; for take away obedience , and government lapses into confusion . now for the counterpoise ; against this law , and thus supported , appears your naked conscience . nay , that 's the fairest on 't ; it may be worse , and in truth , any thing that 's ill , under that name . n. c. but what 's the world to me , in the scale against my soul ? c. you have great reason sure , and 't is no more then every man may challenge : that is , to stand , or fall , to his own conscience : is that your principle ? n. c. yes , out of doubt ; 't is mine , and yours , and any man's that's honest. c. well ; hold ye a little ▪ your conscience will not down with this law ; and this law will as little down with your conscience . weigh now the good against the bad ; what if it stands ? what if it yields ? make the case worse then it is ; as bad as bad may be , in your own favour . you cannot comply with the law ; and the law will not stoop to you. what follows upon it ? n. c. the ruine of many godly people , that desire to worship god , according to his word . c. that plea wrought little upon you from us ; but let that pass . what sort of ruine do you mean ? ruine of liberty , or estate ? ( for this law draws no blood ) state your misfortunes , i beseech ye . n. c. no man must hold a benefice , or teach a school , but upon terms of such subscription , or acknowledgment , as many an honest man would rather die then consent to : so that we are distrest , not only for our selves , as being deprived of the comfort of all spiritual , and heavenly freedoms ; but our poor infants are exposed to be undone , wanting the means of a religious education . c. if this be all , never trouble your selves ; for many an honest man has out-liv'd more then this comes to . in short ; there 's a huge clamour ; but ( god knows ) with little reason . some particulars will possibly suffer for want of a toleration : and who are they ; but the profest opposers of the law ? and on the other side , all the friends of the government will suffer by it . if you would see the event of granting what you ask , turn but your face toward — , and then blush , and repent . besides ; you 're not aware , that in contesting with the law , you quarrel with your self : there' 's your own vote against you ; and all this muttering , is no other then your factious will , wrangling with your political consent . and yet i say , stick to your conscience : let us now put the case of a real distance , betwixt this act , and your conscience . how will you divide your duty ? n. c. i 'le follow your advice , and stick to my conscience . c. now change hands , and make your self the supreme magistrate . he has a double conscience ; one that concerns himself , the other , his people . what his majesties personal iudgment is , has been declared abundantly ; what his prudential iudgment may dispose him to , lies in his royal brest . but be that as heaven shall order it . here 's the partition of your rights : the king's prerogative has nothing to do with your conscience ; and your conscience has as little to do with his majesties prerogative . the king is accomptable to god for the welfare of his people ; and you are only accomptable to god for the good of your little particular . if you cannot obey the law , do not : but abide the penalty . if the sovereign cannot relax the law , he 's as free to execute it . your conscience requires liberty , and your governour 's conscience requires order . now why you should expect , that your sovereign should bring down his conscience to yours , when you find upon experiment , that you cannot perswade your own to come up to his , is to me a mystery . to conclude , keep your self , within your sphere ; and where you cannot consent , as a christian , submit , as a subject ; that we may at last hope for some respite from the calamities of sedition , and schism . n. c. and why not scandal , and profaneness too ? for the edge of your severity might be directed to much better purpose that way . sect . xxiv . the church of england charges the non-conformists with schism , and the non-conformists charge those of the church with scandal . the matter is taken into debate . n. c. your position is , that no toleration is to be admitted , to the hazzard of religion , good life , and government . keep to that standard , and you will find that the conformists have as little pretense to a toleration as their neighbours : and that the notorious scandal on the one side , outweighs the objected schism on the other . c. this will scarce hold , if you come to be try'd by your own laws : which make it a matter of scandal , by writing , preaching , or otherwise , to publish a disaffection to the present government . but explain your self . n. c. by scandal , i mean habitual prophaneness , sensuality , dissolution of manners , &c. as by schism , i suppose you intend our incompliances with your church-discipline . weigh these two now , one against the other , and do you your self hold the balance . set up your tavern-clubs against our conventicles oppose your combinations against god himself , to our plots against the government . for you must not take it ill , if i tell ye , that atheism is become the sport , and salt of your most celebrated enterteinments . and when you have dash'd the bible out of countenance , with the story of the three grand impostors , or some such lashing piece of drollery , the questioning of god's over-ruling wisdom , by solemn arguments , and the placing of fortune in the throne of providence , is that which commonly crowns your conversations . ; c. you should not charge personal crimes upon a party , unless you can prove them to be rationally consequent to the tenets , and actings of that party . now if you can shew me any affinity betwixt our principles , and these impieties , you say something : but if you cannot , the dust of your argument puts out your own eyes . i do not wonder , i must confess , to see a nation over-run with atheism , that has been so many years under your tuition : or to find the brat of a conventicle laid at the church-door . n. c. may not we charge personal extravagancies upon your party , as well as you do upon ours ? c. yes : if you can prove the same agreement against us , betwixt the faults of the one , and the principles of the other , which we are able to justifie against you. the episcopal party , you know , stood for the king ; and it is undeniable , that the king , and church had the same cause , and fate . it is as unquestionable on the other side , that the non-conformists destroy'd both the one , and the other : not by accident neither , but by a form'd , and excogitated design , wrap'd up , and couch'd in the very mystery , and foundation of the schism : your separation from a communion with the church , resolving naturally into a combination against the entire frame of the government ; till in the end , by the help of a peinful , and well-effected ministry , the generality of the people were preach'd into this division , [ i. e. ] those that could not reach the cheat , were taught to scruple at every thing ; and those that went along with it , to make a conscience of nothing . and this is it , that has brought us to be so pester'd with enthusiasts , and atheists . n. c. but let me tell ye again , the atheists are of the other party . c. and let me enform you too , that your proceedings have made atheists , more ways then one. first : the meer quality of your cause has made atheism the interest of a great many of your partakers ; who , to put off the thought of a divine vengeance attending them , if there be a god , endeavour ( for their own quiet ) to perswade themselves that there is no god at all . secondly : the work has been carried on under the masque of holiness ; and the most desperate atheist is nothing else but a crusted hypocrite . i speak of your religious atheist , who has this odds of the profane , and scoffing wretch , that he abuses god to his face , and in his own house . the great atheists , indeed , are hypocrites ( says sir francis bacon ) which are ever bandling holy things , but without feeling ; so as they must needs be cauteriz'd in the end. it is remarquable ( as i have elsewhere recommended to your observation ) that in the holy scripture there are not so many woes pronounc'd , nor so many cautions inculcated , against any sort of people , as against hypocrites . you shall there find , that god has given the grace of repentance to persecutors , idolaters , murtherers , adulterers , &c. but i am mistaken if the whole bible yields any one instance of a converted hypocrite . thirdly : you have done more in your practises , toward the vindication of atheism , then all that ever went before ye : and he that overlooks our story , from , to , will find matter , not only to stagger a weak christian , but to put a wiseman to a second thought , and make him exclaim with the prophet ; [ lo , these are the ungodly , these prosper in the world , and these have riches in possession . then have i cleansed my heart in vain , and washed my hands in innocency , to see the same men , swearing to day , with their hands lifted up unto the lord , in a holy covenant , to defend , and preserve his majesties person : and a while after , with the same consecrated lips , blessing that cursed vote , that manifestly led to his destruction . ( the vote of non-addresses ) to see ministers , like so many pulpit-weather-cocks , shifting from party to party , till they have run through every point of the compass : swearing , and counter-swearing : and when the city was split into more factions , then parishes , still to maintein , that the whole schism was acted by the holy ghost . to find the pulpit trading only in dark , and oraculous delusions , instead of plain , and saving truths ; and the pretended messengers of peace , turn'd agents for blood : to hear , and see all this , and more , and the cause prosper too , what could the invention of man add more to this temptation to apostacy ? lastly ; your necessitated toleration , ( necessitated , i say ; for you could never have crush'd the government without it ) started so many lewd opinions , that it was some degree of modesty , for fear of a worse choice , e'en to be of no religion at all : and without dispute , many people finding it left to indifferent , of what religion they were , became themselves as indifferent , whether they were of any , or no. so that the scandal which you would spitefully fasten upon the persons of some of our party , is found to be radical , and constitutional , in the very elements of yours . neither is it all , that your imputation is misplaced ; but i am afraid you 'l find your self in another mistake . which of the two , do you account the more tolerable ; scandal , or schism ? n. c. if by schism you mean a refusal to joyn with that church , where i cannot communicate without sin ; and if by scandal , you intend such actions as are of evil example , and minister occasion to our neighbour , of falling : i think 't is easily determin'd , that the one is not to be suffer'd , and the other not to be condemn'd . c. i do not speak of this or that sort , or degree of schism , and scandal ; but in the just latitude , both of the one , and the other . that is to say , ( without more circumstance ) which do you take for the more tolerable mischief of the two ? n. c. truly , betwixt a perverse separati●…n , and a notori●…us scandal , i think the choice is hard ; but i rather incline against the scandal . c. now , if ye will believe sir francis bacon , schism is both ; [ heresies , and schisms ( says he ) are of all others , the greatest scandals ; yea more then corruption of manners . ] consider it , as it stands in opposition to unity . ( which is the bond both of religion , and society ) what can be more scandalous , then that which renders religion , ridiculous ? and that 's the effect of schism . to see so many sects , grinning one upon another , and yet all pretending to the same one , and infallible spirit . beside , that schism seldome or never goes alone ; and in truth , it is but sedition , in a disguise : for we find , that our scrupulous dissenters , can with much ease , and unity , agree in a war , though not in a ceremony . n. c. and may there not be conspiracies in scandal , as well as in schism ? there , with an evident design to bring contempt upon religion : whereas here , we find at least a colour , and pretense to uphold it . further ; the sins which i accompt scandalous , are many of them lebell'd at the prerogative of god himself ; and in short , the question is not , properly , and simply , betwixt schism , and scandal ; but betwixt schism , and all other sins whatsoever , that may be propagated by conversation , ( for that 's the latitude of scandal . ) again , let me observe from your own mouth , that heresies are scandals : and several heresies you know , both by the laws of god , and man , are punish'd with death : he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , shall be put to death . from whence you may gather some difference sure , betwixt the heinousness of the on ; and of the other . c. you will proceed by a very uncertain rule , to measure the sin by the punishment : for political laws regard rather publique conveniences , then particular cases of conscience . a man shall lose his life for picking a pocket , and but hazzard his ears for a false oath . but if you 'l refer the matter to the iust , and infallible iudge of all the wo●…ld , to god himself ; look but into that dreadful judgment upon the schism of korah . korah , dathan , &c. rose against moses , with two hun●…red and fifty captains of the assembly , famous in the congregation , and said unto them , ye take too much upon you , since all the congregation is holy , even every one of them , and the lord is among them . wherefore then lift ye your selves above the congregation of the lord ? [ and what follow'd ? ] the earth open'd her mouth , and swallow'd them up with their families , and all the men that were with korah , &c. a fire came out from the lord , and consumed the two hundred ●…nd fifty men that offer'd the incense . this set the multitude a muttering against moses , and aaron ; saying , ye have killed the people of the lord. see now , what came of this muttering too : fourteen thousand seven hundred of them were consumed by a plague . you have here , not only a dreadful instance of god's wrath against schism ; but against a schism also , carry'd on , in the stile of our present non-conformists : two hundred and fifty captains of the assembly , famous in the congregation ; which our english translation renders , an intelligent , sober sort of men , numerous among all ranks , &c. these rose against moses , and aaron , and said unto them , ye take too much upon you. the congregation is holy , and the lord is among them. wherefore do ye lift your selves above the congregation of the lord ? what is this , but the language of our age , the common objection against the bishops , for lording it over god's heritage . the consequences i leave before you . n. c. give me leave now to pass an observation upon your whole discourse . you seem to have been very punctual , and methodical in the distribution of the parts of it . a toleration , or no toleration , was the question . an universal toleration you found too wide ; a limited toleration too narrow ; and yet after all this , your opinion was , that a toleration under such and such modifications , and restrictions might be admitted : upon which terms , i was content to come to an issue with you. now , since this lender of a compliance , you have not proceeded , methinks , with that candour which i expected from you. but the main stress of your argument lies against the whole party of the non-conformists ; and ( in effect ) against any toleration at all : with little or no regard to those accommodable points , that might have brought the matter in difference to some sort of composure . c. it is very true , that i am utterly against tolerating the whole party , as a thing of certain inconvenience , to religion , and government ; and to the ruine , no less of your selves , then of the publique . will presbytery ever satisfie , the independents conscience ? or will liberty any better suit with the presbyterians ? and yet you could both of you joyn with the directory , against the common prayer ; with the authority of the pretended assembly , against that of the church ; wherein you have given proof to the world , that you were not united upon any consideration of conscience , but with a design upon a common booty . ye overturn'd the government , divided the spoil , enrich't your selves , embroiled every thing , and settled nothing . and yet in those days there was no act of uniformity to hinder you . this is enough to make evident , that the non-conformists are intolerable , in conjunction : but if you think fit to make a tryal , how far any sort of them may agree with our standard of toleration , apart , plead you the cause of the presbyterians , and let your brother independent here , ( that has been a witness to our whole debate ) take up the cudgels for his own party ; not forgetting , that in the question of toleration , the foundation of faith , good life , and government is to be secur'd . n. c. according to what latitude are we to understand that which you call the foundation of faith ? c. according to the latitude of the apostles creed ; wherein are conteined all the articles of simple faith , which are necessary to be explicitly believed . ] and whatsoever was found by them , to be necessary , and sufficient to salvation , continues so still , and ought to be so received , and acknowledged by us : without insisting upon deductions , and consequences , as points of prime , and fundamental necessity ; though occasionally , and obliquely , they become necessary too . this is the word of faith which we preach , that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord iesus , and shalt believe in thy heart , that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . here 's the foundation of faith : and in that of good life , respect is to be had to morality , that nothing be tolerated to the encouragement of loosness , sensuality , and dissolution of manners . as there is an absolute necessity of providing against doctrines and opinions of this quality ; so i think there will be no great difficulty , either of discovering , or of suppressing them : for they are of a condition so notorious , that they ly open to all people : and then so odious they are , by reason of the gross impiety , and scandal ; that they have no friends upon the face of the earth , ( for their own sakes , i mean ) but the profest enemies christianity , and nature . ( it is another case , when they are made use of in subserviency to a faction . ) so that you may save your selves the trouble of catechising your brethren upon these two points , and rather spend your time upon the remaining caution , for securing the government : which will be much more to our purpose ; for the matter we are now upon , is a question , rather of policy , then of religion . toleration discuss'd , betwixt a presbyterian , and an independent . sect . xxv . an enquiry , upon a short , and impartial survey of the rise , progress , and issue of the war , raised by the two houses in . whether were more criminal , the presbyterians , or the independents . presb. in all our arguments , and pleas for toleration , we are still hit in the teeth , ( as in bar to our demands ) with dangerous practises , and opinions the murther of the late king the over-turning of the government and that we have a mind to serve the son , as we did the father . now forasmuch as the fact is undeniable and truly the exception but reasonable , as to those that did it ; we are first to clear our selves of that execrable fact ; wherein i am content to become an undertaker for the presbyterians ) and to speak afterward , to the iustification of our principles , and opinions . ; ; ; ; indep . give me leave then to plead the cause of the independents ; and to observe to you , in the first place , that the scotch non-conformists under king iames were totally presbyterian : and so were the english puritans under queen elizabeth . presb. were the anabaptists , familists , and brownists , that started up in those days , presbyterians ? indep . some dutch anabaptists came over indeed in ; but one proclamation scatter'd them immediately . and then for the familists , and brownists , you speak of ; alas ! they gave the executioner more trouble then the government , and were supprest as soon as detected . but the formal , and united confederacy was still presbyterian ; and you must overthrow all the memorials , and records of those times to gainsay it . briesly ; if you look forward , you will find the presbyterians again under king iames , at hampton court ; the presbyterians again , in the several parliaments under king charles the first ; and so the same hand still , to the beginning of the scottish broils in . which was but the midwifry of the plot , they had been so long a hammering . presb. you make nothing , it seems , of the turbulent independents , that went away to new england , holland , and other parts beyond the seas , with all the clamour , and ●…ancour imaginable against the government . indep . not to justifie them in their clamour ; i must yet recommend their departure , as a fair testimony that they withdrew upon conscience . for by this secession , they put themselves out of condition to carry on a faction : whereas the presbyterians , that had a further design in prospect , stood their ground , watch'd their advantages , and gain'd their end. presb. all this is but talk , without proof . indep . it will be granted , i suppose , that the scottish tumults in . and the r●…bel ion upon the neck of them , in were advanc'd upon a presbyterian accompt : and consequently , that those were of the same leven , that voted them good subjects , and money for their peins , and adopted them their dear brethren , for so doing . were not the principals of the faction in the long parliament , every man of them presbyterian ? were not the army , and ass●…mbly , presbyterian ; and all their votes , actions , and conclusions influenc'd accordingly ? who were they that invited the scots into england the second time ; ( nov . ●… . ) that imposed the covenant ; prosecuted the war , under the countenance of it ; and made it the test of discrimination , betwixt the malignant , and well affected parties : that settled the directory , nay the presbytery it self ? were not these , presbyterians ? who were they , but presbyterians , that stripp't the king of his regalities , and revenues ; commission'd an army against him ; fought him , pursu'd him ; and in fine , brought him to utter ruine ? presb. you will find the late king of another opinion , in his grand declaration , of aug. . . where he complains of the tumultuous assemblies of brownists , anabaptists , and other sectaries . indep . but still you will find in the same page , that these very people were animated , and countenanced , by presbyterians ; and acted , as the creatures , and servants , of that interest . presb. can you say that the english , or scottish preshyters did ever go about to dissolve monarchy ? indep . yes : and i do aver , that the nineteen propositions of iune . . were as much a dissolution of kingly government , as the very act it self ( of march . . ) for abolishing it . and the uxbridge propositions were to the same purpose . presb. you know very well , that after the new-modelling of the army , the presbyterians were able to do nothing ; and this was a good while before the king went to the scots . indep . let us see then how the presbyterians behaved themselves , after his majesty cast himself into the protection of the scotch army before newark , in may , . notice was immediately given of it , to the two houses , by the commissioners of the army ; importing their adherence to the covenant , and treaty ; and that they had no fore-knowledge of his majesties coming . the english army presently march'd with horse , and 〈◊〉 , toward newark ; and our brethren fairly retreated with the prey in the foot toward newcastle . after this , both parties stood at gaze for several months ; but not without a world of tedious papers , betwixt the scotch commissioners , and the two houses , touching their ioynt right in disposing of the person of the king. but in the conclusion , the presbyterians compounded the controversie for the sum of l in may they took their sovereign into their protection ; in the december following , they sold him ; and in february they deliver'd him up ; and all this , according to their covenant . presb. they must needs deliver him up , when they could keep him no longer . indep . they had at that time the city of london to friend ; a balancing vote in the house of commons ; a considerable mixture in the army ; scotland behind them ; ( entire , if ever the kings interest came in play ) and at least ten thousand men in a body . ( the royal party over and above . ) so that here was no visible force to over-awe them : and lowdon himself acknowledged as much , at a conference ( octob. . . ) if any such course shall be taken ( says he ) or any demand made for rendring of his person , which cannot stand with his honour , and safety ; or which cannot consist with our duty , allegeance , and covenant ; nor with the honour of that army , to whom ( in time of his extreme danger ) he had his recourse for safety : it cannot be expected that we can be capable of so base an act : and if ( to shun this , and avoid occasion of quarrelling between the kingdoms ) he shall go to scotland , and resent his expulsion out of england ; and crave the assistance of that kingdom for recovery of his right to this crown : he may in a short time , raise such forces in scotland , and ireland , as with the assistance of forreign princes , these kingdoms may be made a field of blood , &c. by this , it appears evidently , that they were under no necessity of delivering the king : and you may now see their opinion of the action it self . [ if it be contrary ( say the scotch commissioners ) to the law , and common practise of nations , to deliv●…r up the meanest subject fled to them , though it be for the greatest crimes ; how much more would the world abroad condemn our army , for a base , dishonourable act , if they should deliver up their head , and sovereign , ( having cast himself into their hands ) to be disposed of at the arbitr●…ment of another nation ! presb. but yet you saw that they condition'd for his honour , freedom , and safety . indep . that 's a shuffle : for upon such terms did they render him , that they might have cast a sheep into a herd of wolves , with as much confidence , and likelihood of safety . you are here to distinguish the f●…ction of scotland , from the nation : no country affording greater instances of honour , and loyalty . nay , i have heard ( even on this occasion ) that upon the kings earnest desire to go for scotland , it was carried in the negative but by two voices . presb. can you imagine , that if they had apprehended any danger to his r●…yal person , they would not have ventur'd their libes a thousand time●… over , to have sav'd him ? indep . no , no : but on the contrary ; they foresaw the danger , debated it ; and yet expos'd him : nay , which is still worse , they reserv'd him for it . were not his majesties friends kept from him , by a strict order , at newcastle ? was he not spied , and guarded , for fear of an escape ? and upon information , that he intended one , was not a narrower watch set over him ? that they foresaw the danger , is confest by the chancellor himself . lest we should walk in the dark , ( says he ) upon obscurity of ambiguous words , i shall desire , that the word of disposing of the kings person , may be rightly understood . for dolus versatur in universalibus . for to dispose of the person of the king , as both houses , or both kingdoms shall think fit , may in some sense be to depose , or worse . and in a speech to his majesty , he goes yet further . if your majesty ( says he ) shall refuse to assent to the propositions ; ( which god forbid ) you will lose all your friends , lose the city , and the country ; and all england will joyn against you as one man : and ( when all hope of reconciliation is past ) it is to be feared they will process , and depose you , and set up another government . upon your majesties refusing the propositions , both kingdoms will be constreined ( for their mutual safety ) to agree , and settle religion , and peace without you : which ( to our unspeakable grief ) will ruine your majesty , and your posterity . and if your majesty reject our faithful advice , and lose england by your wilfulness , your majesty will not be permitted to come and ruine scotland . pres●… . these propositions , i suppose were of absolute necessity to the well-being of the publique ; they would never have been brought in competition else with the kings freedom , life , and d●…gnity ) . indep . the king was first , to iustifie the pr●…ceedings of the two houses , and to deliver up to death , beggery , and infamy his whole party . . to settle the militia of england , and ireland , in the hands of the parliament , for twenty years ; giving them authority to raise men , and moneys . . to make v●…id all honours since ; and no peers admitted for the future , to sit ●…nd vote in parliament , but by consen●… of both houses : who were likewise to dispose of all great places , and offices of honour , in england , and ireland . . his majesty was to swear , and sign the covenant , and command the taking of it throughout the three kingdoms ; abolishing episcopacy , and settling religion as both houses should agree . upon his majesties refusal to sign these propositions , the scotch declaration of ian. . . tells us , that there would be a ioynt course taken by both kingdoms concerning the disposal of his majesties person . — with respect had to the safety , and preservation of his royal person , in the preservation , and defence of the true religion , and liberties of the kingdoms — according to the covenant . and according to the covenant , his majesties person was disposed of . presb. and do you believe that the two houses would have used the king any better , if he had gone to them ? they made it treason immediately , and death without mercy , for any man to harbour , and conceal the kings person ; upon a supposition , that his majesty was then in london . this was the fourth of may ; and on the sixth , the commons uoted him to warwick castle ▪ which was unvoted again upon the ninth . in ●…une , the kings going to the scots , was uoted a design to prolong the war. and this was as much the action of the independents , as the other was of the presbyterians . indep . pardon me there , i beseech ye . you see by the voting back and forward , that the house of commons was upon a hard tug , but the scottish party was totally presbyterian . but will you hear the kirk speak for it self , after the putting of the king into english hands ? they exhort their covenanted brethren , ( the assembly at westminster ) to hold fast their solemn league and covenant : to entertein a brotherhood , and unity between the nations , ( feb. . . ) ( but not a syllable of the king ) again , ( iune . . ) the general assembly of the kirk , presses the two houses to a speedy establishment of the presbytery : ( but not a word again of his majesty . ) and in truth , their silence is a favour , considering how they order him , when they speak of him : as you may observe in a resolve of theirs , upon a question debated at edinburgh . if the king be excluded from government in england , for not granting the propositions concerning religion , and the covenant ; and for not giving a satisfactory answer to the remanent propositions : whether in that case it be lawful for this kingdom to assist him , for the recovery of the government , or whether it be not lawful ? being put to it , we cannot but answer , in regard of the engagement of this kingdom , by covenant , and treaty , negative . resolved upon the question , . that the kingdom of scotland , shall be governed as it hath been these last five years ; all means being used , that the king might take the covenant , and pass the propositions . . that the taking of the scots covenant , and passing some of the propositions , doth not give warrant to assist him against england . . that upon bare taking the national covenant , we may not receive him . . that the clause in the covenant , for defence of the kings person , is to be understood , in defence , and safety of the kingdoms . . that the king shall not execute any power in the kingdom of scotland , until such time that he hath granted the propositions concerning religion , and the covenant ; and given a satisfactory answer to both kingdoms in the rest of the propositions , presented to him by both kingdoms at newcastle . . that if his majesty refuse to pass the propositions , he shall be disposed of according to the covenant , and treaty . . that the union be firmly kept between the kingdoms , according to the covenant , and the treaties . here 's presbyterian loyalty : if the king would have consented to give up his crown ; blast his conscience ; betray his trust , and sacrifice his friends ; he might perchance have been allow'd the pageantry of a court , and some mock-properties of royalty : but upon other terms , the kirk you see gives him no quarter . the king is now under the care of his new governours ; holdenby is his prison ; the question is matter of church-government ; and his majesty is prest to an alteration . some two months are spent in the fruitless desires , and expectations of his chaplains , for his advice , and comfort : and any two ( of twelve in nomination ) would satisfie his majesty . but that could not be ; ( they said ) no , not a common-prayer-book for his own private use. these were the presbyterians still . upon the fourth of iune . co●…not ioyce , with a party of horse took the king from holdenby ; under colour of preventing other secret designs upon the person of his majesty . the next day , at a rendezvouz near newmarket , was read , and signed the armies engagement : compleining of the two houses , and in particular , of a vote they had past for disbanding the army . ( where note , that the houses were still presbyterian ) the sum of their engagement was : that they would disband , upon full satisfaction received , and not without it . this liberty was menag'd all this while , with much formality of duty , and respect : the houses at every turn advertis'd concerning the king's motions : and ( iune the th ) consulted how further to dispose of his majesty . some three days after , the army drew toward london , and alarm'd the city : ( contrary to an express order of the houses , the very day before ) a months pay was their errand , and to save carriage , they made a step from royston to st. albans to receive it . on iune the , out comes a terrible representation , with desires from the army , against all arbitrary powers , and interests whatsoever : pleading the presbyterian presidents , and the principles of the two houses in their iustification . the parliament ( say they ) hath declar'd it no resisting of magistracy , to side with the iust principles , and law of nature , and nations , ( being that law upon which we have assisted you ) and that the souldiery may lawfully hold the hands of the general , who will turn his cannon upon his army , on purpose to destroy them . they demanded , the purging of the houses ; and retrenching the power of committees ; an accompt for publique moneys ; a period of the present session , and limits for the future , &c. it could not chuse but gall the two houses , to see their throats cut with their own weapons : but still they kept up their greatness of pretense , and stile ; and by an order as imperative as ever , they commanded the placing of his majesty at richmond ; in order to a treaty , forsooth , for a safe , and well-grounded peace , but the army had another game to play ; however , what the presbyterians would have done upon that occasion , may be seen in what they did afterward , at the isle of wight , in his majesties last distress , and extremity . presb. you are willing , i find , to pass over the barbarism of the independents toward his majesty , while they had him at h●…mpton-court but there is enough yet behind , to make that faction odious to all eternity . ; indep . truly no : but i would not spin out a debate to the length of a history . as to the barbarisms you speak of , let his majesty himself be heard . colonel whaley , i have been so civilly used by you , and major huntington , that i cannot but by this parting farewell , acknowledge it under my hand . nov. . . and again ; from carisbrook castle to the general , nov. . . the free liberty which you willingly afforded us to have of the use of our own chaplains , makes us at this time not only to acknowledge your former civilities , but , &c. so that his majesties condition appears to have been somewhat more easie at hampton-court , then before it was at holdenby . nay , most certain it is , that the presbyterians , even at that very time , did the deadly thing that brought the king to the seaffold . presb. how could that be ; when the two houses , by purging , and modelling , were subjected absolutely to the devotion of the army ? indep . thus they did it . his majesty was at that time , upon fair terms with cromwel , and ireton ; and not without large hopes of a final accommodation . ( the author of the history of independency , ( pa. . ) is positive , as to their treating with the king ) while this was in agitation , the presbyterians were at work on the other hand , to break the king's confidence in the army ; by imputations of treachery , and levity : to divert his majesty to the seeking of relief elswhere ; with particular undertakings of great matters from scotland , and the city of london . this way of tampering might very well put the king to a stand : which cromwel no sooner perceived , but he immediately betook himself to a course of extremity : irritated ( over and above , as is credibly affirmed ) by an advise foom argyle , in confirmation of his jealousie . his majesties next remove was to the isle of wight : where , for ceremonies sake , he was presented with four bills ; and upon his refusal to pass them , followed the vote of non-addresses . in passing these bills , his majesty had not only divested himself , and his successors , of all sovereignty ; but subjected his people to the basest , and most absolute tyranny that ever was excrcis'd upon mortals . presb. you will not call this the act of the presbyterians , i hope . indep . no , i will not : but yet i must tell you , that the presbyterians , upon this juncture , did every jote as much as this amounts to . so soon as the parliament of scotland was thoroughly inform'd of the distress , and danger of the king's condition , the matter was presently debated ; and a resolution taken to raise an army for his majesties relief . in which proceeding , they were violently opposed by the genral assembly , without any regard at all to the king's life , at that time in q●…estion . see the humble desires of the commissioners of the general assembly to the parliament , pag. . ( we desire that his majesties late concessions , and offers concerning religion , as they have been by the church , so may be by the parliament declared unsatisfactory . ( march . . ) and afterward : ( ian. . . ) that his majesties late concessions , and offers concerning religion , may by your lordships , directly , and positively , be declared unsatisfactory to this present parliament . and that there shall be no engagement for restoring his majesty to one of his houses , with honour , freedom , and safety , before security , and assurance be had from his majesty , by his solemn oath , under his hand , and seal , that ●…e shall for himself , and his successors , consent , and agree to acts of parliament , enjoyning the league and covenant , and fully establishing presbyterian government , directory of worship , and confession of faith in all his majesties dominions : and that his majesty shall never make opposition to any of these , or endeavour any change thereof . this is rivetted with a mischief . and pray'e shew me now the material difference , between precluding his majesty by a vote of no address , or by a resolution of no agreement : his honour , and conscience being equally at stake on either side . to give you the sum of all in short . the presbyterians began the war ; pursu'd it ; made the king a prisoner ; sold him ; and in the depth of his calamity , presented him with templation , instead of comfort . no composition would be heard of , but the forfeiture of his soul , for the saving of his life . presb. but the independents however , crown'd the wickedness with his blood. indep . suppose it so : they did only execute the sentence , but the presbyterians pronounc'd it . neither did they execute it , as independents ; or under colour of any impulse of religion , or conscience , but upon civil , and political pretexts . he was adjudged to be put to death as a tyrant , traytor , murtherer , and publique enemy : not for refusing to enter into a church-covenant , or establish liberty of conscience ; but upon a pestilent motive of diabolical policy , and state. whereas , the presbyterians persecuted him as presbyterians ; and depriv'd him of his royal support , dignity , friends , freedom , ( in effect ) life and all , because he would not renounce his reason , and conscience , in favour of their government . and i am verily perswaded , that you will have as little to say for your principles , as for your actions . sect . xxvi . what party soever demands a toleration , and yet mainteins , that it is destructive both of church , and state , to grant one , is an enemy to both . indep . as to the point in question ; it lies naturally before us to speak first to the thing , in it self ; and we may afterward consider it in the consequences . in the desire of a toleration , the independents ask no more then they would be ready to allow ; i wish the presbyterians could say the like . presb. in the large sense of allowing all sorts of libertines , and heretiques , as the late independent government did , i do confess you have out-done the presbyterians . indep . and yet those very libertines , and heretiques , were your white-boys , and favourites , so long as they serv'd your ends. they had none of this language from you , when they tumulted against bishops , and common-prayer ; ceremonies , and popish lords . while they were the instruments of your ambition , they were the godly , well-affected party : so that heretiques , it seems , will down well enough with your politiques , though not with your consciences : provided they will content themselves to be damn'd , and let the presbyterians alone to govern. presb. the independents made sweet work in holland , did they not ? and where was your spirit of toleration , and forbearance , i beseech you , in new-england ? indep . you cannot say that we gave any trouble in holland to the state ; or that we fell foul there upon different iudgments . in new-england , 't is true , we excluded the gortonists , familists , seekers , antinomians , anabaptists ; and subjected them to the censure of the civil power , as people of dangerous principles , in respect both of good life , and government . which proceeding of our●… methinks might serve to disabuse those that call independency the genus generalissimum of all errours , heresies , blasphemies , and schisms : and take the church way of new-england , for that sort of independency . they did also exclude papacy , and prelacy ; the latter , perchance , more out of regard to a temporary convenience , then upon any rooted principle of implacable severity . and i perswade my self , the episcopal party will witness thus much on our behalfs ; that as to the freedom of their meetings , and way of worship , in the late revolutions , they had much better quarter from the independents , then ever they had from the presbyterians : there was no persecuting of men for covenants , and directories : so that thus far , the independents have made their professions of liberty good , by their practise . presb. and are not the classical presbyterians as much for a lawful liberty , as the congregationals ? [ l●…t there be a toleration in religion , excepting to blasphemy , treason , or gross errours . ] bear with the weak ; tolerate the tolerable , and for the intolerable , we beg not your toleration . ●…ere's the sense and destre of the presbyterian divines that were commission'd about the review of the service-book . indep . this is only a new song , to an old tune . the presbyterians have just the same need of the independents at this day , that they had some nine and twenty years ago . the author of the discourse of religion has many good remarques upon the papists , that may be very well applied to the presbyterians ; and this for one. [ things past ( says he ) may afford prognostiques of things to come . so that we are to gather what you intend now , from what you did , after saying the same things before . or if you had rather come to a tryal , upon the evidence of your own manifestos , and declarations , then upon the history of your practises ; i shall make use of no other testimony against you . the presbyterians press the demand of a toleration , as a very reasonable request ; and yet they themselves have pronounc'd judgment against it , as a thing against conscience , destructive of publique order both in church , and state , and of the peace of common society . toleration ( says mr. edwards ) cannot be condescended to , without a breach of oath , and covenant . [ it is the depth of satan , this design of a toleration . he does not move for a toleration of heresies , and gross errours ; but an allowance of a latitude in some lesser differences with peaceableness . this is candidus ille diabolus , that white devil , &c. the london ministers letter to the assembly , in . declares it repugnant to the solemn league and covenant . the commissioners of the kirk of scotland , do protest , and declare against it , as inconsistent with , and repugnant to the word of god. as to the influence of a toleration upon church , and state ; mr. edwards tells us , that the party tolerated will never rest working , till they get the upper hand , and suppress the other . rutherford is positive , that such opinions , and practises as make an evident schism in a church , and set up two distinct churches , of different forms , and government , are not to be tolerated . for by their principles they labour , each the destruction of the other ; and this toleration destroys peace , and unity . again , the london ministers are of opinion , that it will produce causless , and unjust revolts from the ministry , and congregations . the peoples minds will be troubled , and in danger to be subverted . heart-burnings will be fomented , and perpetuated to posterity . the godly , peinful , and orthodox ministers will be discouraged , and despis'd . the life and power of godliness will be eaten up by frivolous disputes , and ianglings . and the whole church of england , in short time , will be swallowed up with distraction , and confusion . the kingdom will be wofully weakned also , by scandals , and divisions : the power of the magistrate will not be only weakned , but utterly overthrown , by the anti-magistratical principles , and practises of the independents : and the whole course of religion in private families , will be interrupted , and undermined . not to multiply authorities more then necessary , this has been the strein of all your proceedings : imperiously , and inexorably strict , and rigorous in imposing upon others ; and as shamelesly importune , and clamorous for liberty to your selves . but what have i more to do , then to pass sentence upon you , out of your own mouths ? you cannot in conscience desire a toleration , if you understand it to be against conscience to grant it . and the very asking of that which you believe would draw a destruction upon church and state , is ground enough for a strong presumption that you intend it . presb. that which was a reasonable cause of refusal , from the presbyterians to the independents , will not hold good from the church of england to the presbyterians : either in respect of the stability of our government , or of the sobriety of our principles . sect . xxvii . in case of a toleration , or indulgence to be granted , whether has the fairer pretense to it ; the classical way of the presbyterians , or the congregational way of the independents ; in respect of their form of government . indep . the presbyterians ( you say ) are rather to be tolerated then the independents , in regard of the stability of their government , and the sobriety of their principles , to speak in this place to the matter of their government ; i think your argument is very ill grounded . for in deliberations of this nature , the cautions that occur to all magistrates are chiefly these two. first , in case of an indulgence , that it may be placed upon a party , which in probability , would not disturb the publique if they could ; but secondly , to make sure however , ( for fear of the worst ) that they shall not be able to do it , if they would . so that whether a stable , and united , or a loose , and distracted interest may with more security be indulged , is the question . presb. you may as well ask , whether order , or confusion be more tolerable in a government . indep . that order which is necessary in the government it self , is dangerous in the enemies of it . but deliver your exceptions to the toleration of those which you call independents , in regard of their way of government . presb. you have already , in a good part , sav'd me that labour . but a man shall not need to go further for an exception , then to the very denomination of them ; which imports an exemption from all iurisdiction , both eclesiastical , and civil . indep . but what will become of that exception , when i shall tell you , that those people are no more independent , then the presbyterians ? [ we depend upon the magistrate for civil government , and protection ; and upon christ , and his word , for the rule of our administrations . nay , we insist upon it , that the congregational way , is the only true , original presbytery , which is peculiar to every particular church of christ. but if you call us independent , as in distinction to subordinate , we are not only ready , as such independents , to defend our selves ; but by virtue of that very independency , we pretend to claim an advantage over the presbyterians . presb. i could tell ye of your church-covenants , and defensive leagues , against the commands of authority . indep . but i could speak homer to you , of your national leagues and covenants ; which all the world knows , are the grand engines to disjoynt communities , and remove the foundations of government . and i do not much wonder at it , where the act of a general assembly , influences the consciences of a whole nation . as to any covenants , and leagues against the magistrate ; neither do the independents practise them , nor would they stand them in any stead , if they had a mind to play the villeins ; for want of an orderly dependence , to unite , and to oblige them . presb. and for that reason , you imagine , the independents may be better tolerated , then the presbyterians . indep . truly for that main reason , with twenty great ones more in the belly of it . it were a wild thing for a man to apprehend any danger to a government , from a faction that is divided , and distracted within it self ; and without any common tye of agreement to unite it . and this do i take to be the condition of the independents , ( which for discourse sake , we will suppose to be a faction . ) their congregations are generally small ; the members of them , gather'd up here and there , and so scattered , and intermix'd with people of other perswasions , that they have neither opportunity , nor encouragement to joyn in a conspiracy . besides that in respect of their church-parity , they want that ordinary medium of superiority , and subjection , to link them together in a combination , upon the point of common interest . another difficulty will arise from the affections of the pastors themselves ; who are not without their touches of disgust , and emulation , to see themselves either out-vied , or deserted : the one , by fuller congregations ; and the other , by the removal of their members from one church to another . presb. if i am not mistaken , you have provided against the inconvenience of breaking in one upon another ; by an obligation at your entrance into any church , not to forsake it without leave . but proceed . indep . there remains yet behind , another obstacle , equal to all the rest : which is ; that the independents have no men that are eminent for popularity , interest , great fortunes , and abilities , to head them . now how it is possible for a party under all these disadvantages , to work any mischief to the state , i am not wise enough to imagine . if you object , that the late independent government had many persons at the helm , that were qualified with these circumstances . i must answer you , that whatever they were , they did not set up originally for independency . presb. so that upon the result , to save your party from appearing dangerous , you have made it contemptible . and your argument would have run very well in these words . the independents may better be tolerated then the presbyterians : for no body that has either brains , or reputation , will own independency . indep . as an interest ( you should have said ) whereupon to work any change of government . ( and this would have been point-blank to the question , and your period never the worse for 't . ) now if my reason be good on the behalf of the independents , that they may be tolerated without any risque to the commonwealth , upon the considerations before mentioned : it will hold as good against the presbyterians ; because of the very contrary circumstances in their government , and case . that is to say , they are at great agreement in the orderly reduction , and connexion of their polity ; and they have commonly found great friends to uphold them in their pretenses . my first exception to presbytery is , that it is a national church-government . and methinks two national church-governments in the same kingdom , looks like a sharing of the sovereignty , and the setting up of christs vicar against gods vice gerent . and what will the people say in the matter , but either that the government thinks them in the right , or else that 't is affraid of them ? the former supposition draws the simple into the party upon conscience ; and the latter engages the crafty upon interest . to take it now in the constitutive parts of it ; the scale of the presbytery rises thus : from parochial inspection , to classical ; from classical to provincial ; and from provincial , to national : which extensive latitude , and comprehension , does plainly discover , that there was a design of sole , and sovereign dominion in the very institution of the discipline . to say nothing in this place of the absolute , and independent authority claimed , and exercised by the general assembly ; i shall only observe this to you : that they have the best security in the world , for their subjects obedience to all their acts , and conclusions whatsoever . for life , fortune , soul , and all lies at stake : they fine , punish , degrade , excommunicate at pleasure . and this is the true reason , that from time to time , the presbyterial discipline has had the countenance of so many popular advocates , and abetters . for certainly , it is the best foundation for an alteration of state , that ever was yet laid upon the face of the earth ; and their work is three quarters done to their hand , in the very disposition of the model . only one observation more , and i have done . and that is , the provident commixture of laity , and clergy in all their counsels ; these to attaque the church , the other , the state ; by which means , they may the more commodiously carry on schism , and sedition in their proper seasons : and leave a door of preferment , and advantage , open to all comers . i will not say yet , that it is absolutely impossible for a protestant monarchy , and this double refin'd presbytery to prosper in the same soil : but if i had money in my pocket , i would not give any prince in christendom above eighteen months purchase for his crown , that should put it to the venture . for he has nothing in the world to trust to , but miracles : the gratitude , faith , good nature , and pure integrity of the party . sect . xxviii . whether may be better tolerated in this kingdom , the presbyterians , or the independents ; in respect of their principles , and ordinary proceedings . debated , first , with relation to his majesties person , and authority . indep . the government of england is monarchique ; but so attemper'd with legal provisions ▪ for the comfort , and benefit of the people , that every englishman has his interest in the preservation of the law ; as that which intitles him to the free enjoyment of his life and fortune : so that we are to frame our discourse with a regard to his majesties person , and royal authority ; the foundation , and execution of the law ; the rights , and just liberties of the people : utterly excluding from the limits of our toleration , all power or pretense whatsoever , that shall presume to usurp upon any of these particulars . now to begin with the first . what do you find in the independent way , that may endanger his majesty , either in his person , or in his prerogative ? presb. the princes of germany would answer you , that your proceedings are sangu●…nary , and violent : not only against your actual opposers , but against the very ordinance of magistracy it self . indep . what are the furies of the anabaptists to us , that have declared against them , as well as you ? but if you can fasten upon those of the congregational way , any antimonarchical opinions , or practises , which are either wrap't up in the bowell of that profession , or naturally issuing from thence : and make good your assertion , by proving what you say , to have been the formal act of any one of our churches by it self , or more of them in combination , i will never open my mouth after it , in a plea for the independents . presb. it were a hard matter indeed to fasten any thing upon the principles ●…f a party , that professes to have no principles , but still refers it self to the guidance of a further light. indep . and yet you can blame us for our principles , though by your own confession , you know not what they are . now for the reserve of acting according to a further light ; it is exprest , in the ordinary form of our church covenant , that it is to be reach'd unto us out of the word ; which most assuredly will not lead us into any evil. if this be all you have to say against the independents , i would gladly hear what defence you are able to make for the presbyterians : either simply , and in themselves ; or else comparatively with any other sort of people . nay , i should not much care if you took the iesuits themselves for your foil . presb. how can you say this ? considering , [ that thundring of excommunication , which has sounded in all ages , since the beginning of the papal reign , against kings , emperours , &c. and these practises iustified by their decretals , and canons ; divines of greatest authority , and some of their councils : ascribing to the pope a power of deposing princes that are heretical●… or favourers of heretiques . the iesuits doctrine of king-killing hath made them odious , &c. indep . do you tell us of papalexcommunications , justified by canons , divines , councils ; deposing of kings for heresie ; and the iesuits doctrine of king-killing , & c ? the disciple should speak reverently of his master : for i assure you , a iesuits cloak sits exceedingly well upon the shoulders of a presbyterian . to discipline , must all the states within the realm be subject , as well the rulers , a●… the ruled . ( according to the discipline of the kirk of scotland , printed in london , . the person of the magistrate ought to be subject to the kirk , spiritually , and in ecclesiastical government : submitting himself to the discipline of the kirk , if he transgress in matters of conscience , and religion . beza , buchanan , ( and in truth , the whole brotherhood ) are for the excommunication of princes . so that there 's presbyterial excommunication you see , as well as papal . and in case of superstition , and idolatry , the presbyter can depose too , as well as the pope , in case of heresie . was not the queen-regent in scotland ( . ) deposed , upon the encouragement , and with the approbation of willock , knox , and their fellows ? as not doing her duty to the subjects ; and as a vehement mainteiner of superstition , and idolatry ? did not the commissioners of the kirk ( in . ) threaten an open protestation against king iames , and his council , in case of either pardoning , or restoring the popish lords that were at that time under banishment ? as to the iesuits doctrine of king-killing ; we are able not only to match , but to out-doe it , out of the school of the consistory . there is no doubt but the iesuits are guilty of delivering doctrine that naturally leads to king-killing conclusions . but do ye find that ever they said in plain terms ; it is lawful for subjects to take up arms against their sovereign , in case of religion ; or that ever they publiquely applauded the murther of a prince , after the fact was committed ? certainly , in this particular , the consistorian copy goes beyond the papal original . upon a dangerous uproar that was raised by the ministers , in edinburgh , ( . ) the king by proclamation , discharged all iudicatories from sitting there . whereupon the ministers prest a bond of association , upon the noblemen , and barons ; and sent a letter ( drawn by robert bruce , and walter balcanquel ) to the lord hamilton to head them : for by the motion of god's spirit , and animated by the word , the people had gone to arms , in defence of the church , &c. not to trouble you with a rabble of unnecessary instances : in the ninth section , there has been said more than enough upon this subject already . you shall now see the veneration they have for the persons of princes . gibson , in the pulpit , denounced that curse against king iames , that fell upon ieroboam : that he should die childless , and be the last of the race . ( an. . ) which words , by the assembly , ( with much a do , and after declining the question , were found to be scandalous . david blake preached , that all kings were the devils barns , and his majesty had detected the treachery of his heart . for which he was cited before king and council , and appeal'd to the presbytery , who by their commissioners moved his majesty for a surcease of the process , with a charge , in case of refusal , to protest against the proceedings of the counsel . quasi pulpita ( sayes cambden ) a regum authoritate essent exempta . as if pulpits were priviledged from the authority of princes . iohn welch , at the high church in edinburgh , preached , that the king was possest with a devil , and that the people might rise lawfully , and take the sword out of his hand . but what is all this , in comparison with the license of the late times here at home , when the two houses , and assembly were daily entertained with sermons and pamphlets of this quality , for which the authors had their thanks , and imprimanturs ? but i shall rather confine my self now , to the arbitrary excesses of the scottish presbytery , as the model of the covenanted and blessed reformation . to come now to their usurpation upon the civil power . king iames was surpriz'd at ruthuen ( . ) under pretext of religion , and kept months a prisoner . this act was publiquely justified by the assembly at edinburgh , as done for the preservation of the kings person and religion . in the case of andrew melvil : it was insisted upon , that treason in the pulpit , fell under the cognition of the presbytery , and that neither king nor counsel , primâ instantiâ , ought to meddle with it . but it is a much easier matter to find what a prince may not do , ( under the inspection of a presbytery ) then what he may . he must not a receive an embassader , nor b pardon an offender , without the approbation of the kirk . nor so much as chuse his own guards ; c court-officers , or counsellers , nor issue out any proclamations or decrees . they are to direct him d what forfeitures to take , and how to dispose of them : when to arme , and whom to trust. if the king has a a mind to feast an embassader , they presenly indict a fast e ; and curse the magistrates almost to excommunication , for not observing it . nay so little power had king iames with these people , that f when his mother was under a sentence of death , he could not get them so much as to pray for her , that god would illuminate her with the light of his truth , and save her from the apparent danger she was in . on the other side ; they claim to themselves the power of warr , and peace ; of calling and dissolving assemblies ; and whensoever they shall think fit to say , that the good of the church ; the glory of god ; or any spiritual end is concerned , they make no scruple in the world , of levying armes , men , monies ; seizing of castles , and forts ; issuing out of warrants for members of parliament . a they impose oaths and covenants against the king himself ; b encounter proclamations with anti protests ; c rescind acts of counsels , &c. and what 's the colour for all this haughtiness and state ? the ministers ( forsooth ) are christs deputies ; and their acts are christ's ordinances ; whereas iudges , counsellers , and parliaments are but the king's substitutes , and their laws only humane . presb. you are not any more to conclude against the presbyterial government , from the president of some factious assemblies , than against the constitution of parliaments , from the president of some seditious compositions and elections . indep . neither do i charge these imposing usurpations upon the confederacy of a cabal , or a faction , but upon the original scope , and mystery of the discipline ; for i find them rooted in the very foundation of their policy . their pragmatical intermedling in civil affairs , and matters of state , is warranted by their book of government ; where it is said , that the minister handleth external things , only for conscience cause : now i would fa●…n know that notion which may not some way or other , be made relative to conscience . for limiting the magistrate in the exercise of his power , they have this plea ; that though the ministers do not exerce the civil iurisdiction , they teach the magistrate how it should be exercised , according to the word . so that the prince is put to schoole to the masterships of his parish , to learn every point and circumstance of his duty . now for the absolute , and boundless iurisdiction of their general assemblies : they tell us , not only that the kirk is to appoint times and places convenient for their meeting ; but that as well magistrates , as inferiours , are to be subiect to the iudgment of the same ; in ecclesiastical causes , without any reclamations or appeal , to any iudge civil or ecclesiastical . is not this a dethroning of majesty , to set princes , and peasants upon the same level in point of subjection to their resolutions and decrees ? presb. not at all ; for the magistrate is to assist , and maintein the discipline of the kirk ; and punish them civilly that will not obey the censure of the same . indep . in truth it is a goodly office , you have allotted the chief magistrate ; to set him cheek by iowle with the beadle of the parish : you are to direct the punishment , and he is to execute it . but what if he should prove refractary , and dispute yo●…r authority ? in case of contumacy , he is as liable to censure ( you say ) as another person . and then you have no more to do , but to resort to your ordinary method of calling in the noblemen , barons , gentlemen , burgesses , and commons to your assistance against him . let me now marque to you , two passages in your discipline , that make two shrewd discoveries . [ a minister ( you say ) must not frequent , and commonly haunt the court , unless either sent by the kirk , or called upon by authority for his counsel , and iudgment in civil affairs . and afterwards , you say , that , ministers may and should assist their princes , when required , in all things agreeable to the word ; whether it be in counsel , or pariament , or otherwise . provided , that through flattery of princes , they hurt not the publique state of the church . whence it appears ; first , that simple presbyters may do well enough in parliaments , or councils ; though bishops are excluded : were it not secondly , for the danger of creating a kindness betwixt the king , and the kirk ; which in consequence would frustrate the main design . for the prime end of this church policy is the overtopping and subjecting of the secular power : and it was wisely done to temper the very foundation of it with principles of opposition to the order , and well being of civil government . sect . xxix . the question of toleration , ●…etwixt presbytery , and independency ; debated , with regard to the foundation , and execution of the law . presb. what if you had put the question betwixt a peaceable , and obedient sort of people , and a generation of men that cannot live out of contention . indep . the m●…n of contention , i suppose you would have me understand to be the independents . what 's the quarrel to them upon the matter now before us ? presb. only this : that they are intolerable in any government . how many plots have they had upon this kingdom , since his majesties return ? there was venner's rising ; a conspiracy in the north ; another in ireland . indep , and all this while , y●…u forget the rebellion in scotland , which was professedly presbyterian ; beside that , these disorders which you speak of , were nothing at all to the independents : but ( one way or other ) these instances are to no purpose without some authoritative allowance ; and pray'e let us agree upon it , that only the conclusions of the kirk , on the one hand , and of the church on the other , may be insisted upon , as the acts of either party . presb. i do not find that the independent churches ▪ come to any resolutions at all . indep . you have the less to say then against their principles ; and i wish the indep●…ents could say the same thing for the presbyterians . how far , i beseech you , are humane laws binding ? presb. ●…o far forth as they are agreeable to the word of god. indep . and who shall determine what laws and constitutions are agreeable to god's word ? presb. the church lawfully constitute ; which all godly princes , and magistrates ought to hear , and to obey their voice , and reverence the majesty of the son of god speaking in them . indep . i need not ask what church that is ; for iohn m●…rellius was excommunicate , for mainteyning in a certain treatise , that tell the church , did not belong to the consist●…ry , and the book was burnt . but to the poynt . if the word of god be the rule for humane laws ; and the presbytery , the sole expounders of the word of god ; the law of the nation is at the mercy of the kirk already : for 't is but saying , that this or that law is not agreeable to the word of god , and there 's an end on 't . presb. the kirk has power to abrogate and abolish all statutes , a●… ordinances concerning ecclesiastical matter●… , that are found n●…ysome , and unpro●…table , and agree not with the ●…ime , or are abused by the people . indep . if the kirk has this power , the pope himself pretends to nothing beyond it . are not your determinations as pere●…ptory ; and your orders as imperious ? but i am speaking here , as to the latitude of your pretended iurisdiction . you may abrogate all statutes ( you say ) concerning ecclesiastical matters . and i say , on the other side , that you may upon that ground , abrogate all the statutes in the christian world : for i defie the whole race of mankind , to shew me any one law extant , or the very supposition of a law possible ▪ which may not some way or other ▪ be said to concern ecclesiastical matters . presb. you take no notice , how this power is clogg'd with limitations . if they be found unprofitable , unseasonable , or to be abused by the people . indep . very good : and if the kirk shall think fit to find them so or so ; pray'e what remedy ? b●…t their own avowed actions , and declarations , are the best comments upon their own principles . under king iames in scotland , nothing was more ordinary , then over-ruling acts of parliament by the acts of the assembly : did they not erect a counsel of the church in edenborough , . and take upon them to convene , examine , and censure at pleasure such as they suspected to hold any correspondence with certein excommunicate lords ? did they not also appoint to meet in armes , at the tryal of them ? nor did they think it enough , to rescind ▪ or supersede acts of parli●…ment and general ass●…mblies : but people must be qu●…stion'd too for yielding obedience to acts of parliament , and of general counsels under colour of unjust laws . wee 'l close this particular with the judgment of the commissioners of the general assembly of scotland , of may . . the authority of parliament is one thing ; an act of parliament another thing . we do still acknowledg their authority , when we obey not this or that act. and whatsoever be the treason of impugning the authority of parliamen●… , it can be no treason to obey god rather then man : neither did the general assembly of glasgow , . and such as were active for the covenant at that time , commit any treason , when they impugned episcopacy , and p●…rch articles , although ratify'd , and strengthen'd by acts of parliament , and standing laws then unrepealed . presb. when we have once gotten power into our hands , we are all too apt to abuse it . but i cannot yet perswade my self that the root of these practises is to be found in their principles . their books of discipline are publick ; and no government would ever entertein it , if there were such danger in it . indep . how was the covenant entertein'd ? or who would have dream'd of any harm in a league for the preservation and defence of the king's majestie 's person and authority ? and yet the presbyterian interpretation , and salvo of subordinating his majesties safety and preservation , to the defence of the true religion ( immediately following ) and the kirks assuming to themselves the judgment of that religion , brought both king and church to destruction . nor can you choose but observe the holy discipline , and covenant , to be both of a stile , and both of a design : their claim concerning ecclesiastical matters , hooks in all laws ; and in the defence of the true religion , they usurp an authority over all magistrates . this discipline ( at the best ) is but a worm at the root of civil government : wheresoever it comes , the secular power hangs the head , and droops upon it , and never thrives after . but to sovereign princes , a man might say of it , as god said to adam , of the apple : in the day you eat thereof , you shall dye the death . now as it is manifestly destructive of law in the very foundations of it , to carry an appeal from all temporal governours and constitutions , to the scepter and sentence of christ , sitting upon his tribunal in the presbytery ( the language of beza himself ) so likewise have they their preparatory artifices for obstructing the execution of law , and for the weakening , and distracting of a government before they enter upon the great work of dissolving it . and this is effected by the trojan horse ( as one calls it ) of their excommunication , that carries all the instruments and engines of publique ruine , and confusion in the belly of it . by virtue of this device , they do not only impose upon all ministers , and courts of justice ; but they may , when they please ( as hooker observes ) send out their writs of surcease ; and fetch in the whole business of westminster-hall , to the bar of the consistory . or at the fairest , ( according to beza's distinction ) if they allow the civil iudg to try the fact ( as mere civile ) yet de iure controverso , ecclesiasticum syn●…drium constat respondisse : the church was to determine in matter of law , and the civil magistrate after that , to pronounce sentence , according to that decision . briefly , beza gives the presbytery the same power under the gospel , which was exercised by the synagogue under the law. but now to the point of your excommunication ; and to shew you in what manner it is apply'd , to hinder the execution of law ; and to obstruct civil iustice. by one clause of your discipline , you may abrogate what laws you please , concerning ecclesiastical matters : and by another ; the minister is authorized to handle external things , for conscience cause : so that your authorit●… is without controul in ecclesiastical matters ; and so is your liberty of handling civil matters as ecclesiastical . upon which bottom was founded an assertion not long since mainteined at the savoy , i. e. that the command of a most lawful act is sinful , if that act commanded may prove to any one a sin per accidens , now if the kirk shall think fit to abrogate a law ( as nothing more frequent ) whoever shall presume to execute that law , is sure to be excommunicate : and the supreme magistrate himself is no less lyable to church censure , for not executing that sentence , then the inferior magistrate was for his original disobedience . the bishop of st. andrews ( in ) was excommunicate for advising king iames to a declaration against certein fugitive ministers that were denounced rebels ; and contriving the statutes of ( . ) touching the kings authority in ecclesiastical causes . knox is for excommunication in all crimes , that are capital by the law of god ; and in effect , for the churches tryal of the very fact. it was not for nothing that the two houses held the assembly so long in play , upon this point ; and in despight of all importunities to the contrary , kept the staffe still in their own hands ; and reserved to themselves the ultimate appeal , in cases of excommunication . presb , was it not rather the work of the independents ? who ( to say the truth ) were as much against any settlement at all as against that ; and against the very convening of the assembly it self . indep . and they had done the state a good office , if they had totally hindred it . but this is beside our business . we have said enough as to the dangerous influence of presbytery , upon the security of his majesty and the law. it remains now to be considered , with a respect to the rights , and liberties of the people . sect . xxx . the question of toleration , betwixt presbytery , and independency , debated , with a regard to the rights , liberties , and advantages of the people . indep . you see how it is with kings , parliaments , and laws , under the dominion of presbytery . we are now to look into the condition of the nobility , gentry , commonalty , and of the presbyterial clergy it self , under that discipline : which will best appear , by a view of the powers which the presbytery claims , and exercises . but let me commend one note to you as previous to that examination . this party has constantly screw'd it self into the world , by an oath of mutual defence : which oath they apply as well to the ruine and extirpation of their opponents , as to their own preservation ; by making it a test of good affection to that interest ; and excluding all people whatsoever from any office , or benefit ecclesiastical , or civil , without subscribing it . you cannot deny but this oath in the very institution of it , is a violence both upon law , and conscience ; and consequently , that the imposition falls heaviest upon those that make an honourable , and religious scruple of their actions . so that here is already exposed the most considerable part of the nation , for the subject of their displeasure ; with their lives , liberties , and fortunes at mercy ; as you will find upon a further consideration of their usurped authority , and iurisdiction . presb. leave this way of general discourse , and come to particular instances . where is it , that you find this exorbitant power that you talk of ? indep . in the very declaration of the commission of the general assembly of scotland , . page . [ the duties of the second table as well as of the first : as namely , the duties between king , and subject ; parents , and children ; husbands , and wives ; masters , and servants , and the like ; being conteined in , and to be taught and cleared from the word of god , are in that respect , and so far as concerneth the point of conscience , a subject of ministerial doctrine , and in difficult cases , a subject of cognizance and iudgment to the assembly of the kirk . the dispute here was about the assemblies authority , in the question of war or peace . is not this at one blow to destroy the order of all relations , political , natural , and moral ? princes must not presume to make war or peace ; to enact laws , or abrogate ; to spare or punish , without ecclesiastical licence . the subject must go to the masters of the parish , to know whether , he shall obey authority , or resist it . and after the same manner it fares with parents , and children ; husbands , and wives ; masters , and servants ; so that there is not any person , either publique , or private ; or any action , or office , of regard to community , family , or alliance , that scapes their pragmatical scrutiny , and inspection . presb. so far as these duties are matter of conscience , there is no doubt , but they are of ecclesiastical cognisance ; and further then so , they make no pretension . indep . but you must give me leave to tell you then , that their consciences are larger then other peoples . the old nonconformist ( as au expedient for the settling ecclesiastical affairs ( page . ) proposes the setting up of work-houses for the poor ; the carrying on of the fishing trade ; the taking off of protections ; that none may be imprison'd but according to law : and the abatement of taxes . the assembly at glasgow . passed an act concerning salmon fishing , and another about salt pans . and all this i warrant ye , so far as they concerned point of conscience . but if you would see , what the consistory calls conscience , in the full extent , we must repair for satisfaction , to their direction , and practises in the matter of conscience , and excommunication . the kirk proceeds to excommunication in all capital crimes , where the offender that deserv'd to dye , is suffer'd to live . and in cases of fornication , drunkenness , swearing , cursing , sab●…ath-breaking , wanton words , contempt of the orders of the church ; oppression of the poor ; deceipt in buying and selling , by wrong mete and measure . presb. well ; and what hurt 's in all this ? indep . none at all : but let me proceed . they censure also excess in apparel , meat , or drink , uncomely gestures ; contentiousnes , without reasonable cause ; chiding , brawling , vainwords ; every fault that tendeth to the hurt of a man's neighbour , or to the hindrance of the glory of god : whether by force , or fraud ; word , or deed ; manifestly , or secretly ; purposely , or ignorantly : and the judgment of the whole is left to the discretion of the church . so that your very thoughts are not free . [ the spiritual ruler ( says the book of discipline ) iudgeth both inward affections , and external actions in respect of conscience , by the word of god. upon which ground they take upon them to censure the very suspicion of avarice , and pride : superfluity or riotousness , in chear or rayment . but upon dancers , robin hoods , and all games that brings loss , they have no mercy . these particulars are extracted to a syllable out of the most authentical records they have to shew for the warrant of the scottish discipline - ( our blessed model . ) but many people perchance will make it a matter of nothing to be excommunicate upon a supposition that the anathema is the uttermost spite of the censure . they never dream of car●…ings , iogges , pillories , shaving their beards , and cutting half the hair of their heads . banishments , pecuniary mu●…cts , close imprisonments , and all sorts of studied defamations . nay , if any man refuse to subscribe their confession of faith , rule of government , and manner of worship , he is forthwith excommunicate ; and upon remonstrance of a commissioner from the presbytery to the civil iudg , a warrant granted , commanding him to conform by a day certein , or to be outlawed . if he conform not within that time , his estate move able is forfeited ; and if not within a year and a day , he loses his whole revenue for his life . after this , at the further instance of the churches commissioner , out go letters of caption , for apprehending of his person , and committing him as a rebel . and if he be not to be found ; these are follow'd with letters of inter-communing , forbidding all men either personally to confer with him , or by letter , or interposed person to correspond with him , upon pein of the inter-communers being iudged and reputed a rebel of the same guiltiness . as to the general rule of excommunication ; no person ( wife and family excepted ) is to have any communication with the excommunicate ; be it in eating or drinking ; buying or selling ; yea in saluting or talking with him : unless at commandment or license of the ministry for his conversion . his children begotten and born after that sentence not to be admitted to baptism , till of age to require it ; unless the mother or some special friends , members of the kirk , offer and present the child , damning the iniquity and contempt of the impenitent . there are that do not allow husbands to accompany with their wives in the state of excommuni cation . now upon what has been deliver'd , let any man consider the unchristian rigor of this disciplinary inquisition ; not only in the actual tyranny of it , but in the more miserable consequences . first as it scandalizes the gospel , and makes the death of christ seem to be no effect , by imposing upon us such conditions of salvation , as if the blessed angels should descend , and indue humane shapes , they were not able to perform . for it is not what christ and his apostles say , that will do a man's business here , without the urim and thummim of the parochial session , and the defects of the written word , are to be supplyed by unwritten traditions out of the repository of the presbyterial cabale . in this case it is that we are to have recourse to the apostles precept ; of standing fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , and not to be intangled again in the yoke of bondage . ( a yoke much more intolerable then that of the law ; ) for the iews had their lesson before their eyes , and knew what they were to do . but here , it matters not what either scripture or conscience says , without the subsequent concurrence of the presbytery : to whose supreme , and infallible judgment ( and not to our own ) we are to stand or fall either to heaven , or hell. the rigor of this discipline is m●…st un-christian also , as it crucifies weak consciences with needless , infinite , and incurable scruples ; with scruples that haunt , dog , and torment us in the most necessary , and ordinary actions of humane life . at the church ; at the table ; at the market ; at home , and abroad . at all times , in all places , and upon all occasions , in our words , thoughts , and deeds . as to excess in eating . it is censurable either in the quantity , or in the quality . so that in the first place the eldership is to provide one common gage for the stomachs of the whole parish , for fear of a mouthful too much . and in the second p●…ace , it is made a matter of salvation , or damnation , whether a man eats beef , or venison . and so , for excess in apparel . one inch more , then to cover your shame , is a sup●…rfluity ; and one peny more , in the pound , then the allowance of the presbytery , is made as much as a man's soul is worth . it is the same thing for vain words . a nurse shall not dare to still her child but with a psalm ; and you must not presume so much as to ask what a clock it is , without a text ; to prove that the question tends to edification . but the hardest case of all is , that of suspicion . the very suspicion of avarice , or pride , you say , makes a man lyable to censure . this , methinks , is very severe , for a man to be delivered over to sathan , because the brotherhood suspects him to be proud , or covetous ; whether he be so , or no. presb. 't is to be presumed , that the church will proceed according to a iudgment of charity , and discretion . indep . did not the kirk excommunicate the whole multitude for a robin-hood ? nay at st. iohnstons , they cursed not only the men , that should take part with the king , but the very horses , and spears . ( here 's an excommunication by way of advance ) upon the action of duke hamilton in . the whole party were excommunicate ( even after the defeat : ( as appears by the scotch act for renewing the covenant . ) in some cases again , they are as tender and cautelous . andrew hunter ( a prime stickler for the discipline ) attended bothwel as his chaplain , in a rebellion , . but king iames could not prevail with the assembly to excommunicate him for it ; ( though no doubt was made of the fact ) nay , on the contrary , they would not be quiet , till they had got bothwell's pardon . and upon gowry's attempt ( in the year . ) his majesty required the ministers of edenburgh to give god thanks in their churches for his deliverance , and they refused it . but to the point we were upon . as nothing can be more contrary to the temper and dictate of the holy gospel then the claim of this arbitrary and censorious iurisdiction : it seems to me to stand in an equal degree of opposition to the rules of society , humanity , and reason . the king is upon his good behaviour to the elders , and deacons ( who are iudges of others manners ) as well as the meanest man in the parish . he is indeed ( as is observ'd by the author of presbytery displayd ) the chief member of the general assembly ; but they allow him no negative voice ; and if he has the fortune to be out-voted , he must cause the sentence to be executed , whatever it be , under pein of censure , and consequently of deprivation . of acts of parliament , and inferiour magistrates , enough is spoken already . as to the state of the nobility , and gentry , they are either conformists to the government , or dissenters ; and must take their lot in it , to be either sovereigns , or slaves : ( for that 's the distribution of it . ) upon the mayn these domini dominantium challenge by their commission to be no respecters of persons ; and so lay upon all sorts , and conditions of men in general at their good pleasure certein common impositions , importing their servility , and subjection , and whose livery they wear . i must not omit one peculiar obligation , the nobility , and gentry have to these their gracious masters : which is the easing them of their patronages , and presentations to benefices , because these things fl●…wed from the pope , and the corruption of the canon law only , and are contrary to the word of god , and the peoples liberty of electing their own ministers . [ for ( say they ) this is altogether to be avoided , that any man be violently intruded , or thrust in upon any congregation . but this liberty , with all care , must be reserved to every several church , to have their votes , and suffrages in election of their ministers . observe now , i beseech you , the peoples liberty , in this choice . violent intrusion we call it not , when the counsel of the church , in the fear of god , and for the salvation of the people , ●…ffereth unto them a sufficient man , to instruct them . if his doctrine be found wholesome , and able to instruct the simple , and if the church justly can reprehend nothing in his life , doctrine , nor ut●…erance , then we judg the church unreasonable , if they refuse him , whom the church did offer ; and they should be compelled by the censure of the counsel , and church , to receive the person appointed . here 's liberty upon compulsion ; and it is most palpable , that your whole design is the interest of a party . now to the men of ordinary business , and traffick . the presbytery will put an end to all their disputes , about free trade , priviledges , and matter of commerce , with a wet finger . did they not by an act of assembly at dundy . prohibit the scots trading with any of the king of spains dominions , under pein of excommunication ? and his majesty refusing to comply with them , ( at the iustance of the spanish merchants ) did they not proceed to censure the merchants ? so that there shall be no trading , but where they please : and no markets neither but upon their good liking too . did they not by their proper authority discharge the munday-market in edinburgh ? but the shoo-makers indeed were too hard for the elders this bout , and told them plainly , they would turn out all their ministers by head and shoulders first , before they parted with their market . upon which menace they were quiet . the author of presbytery display'd , gives you some instances of the presbyteries interposal , in actions of debt , and menacing landlords , and creditors , with excommunication , unless they laid down the precess : upon pretense forsooth , that though it was in a civil cause , it had yet a spiritual prospect : withdrew people from their callings , and hindred the progress of the gospel . and this is no more , then any man will reasonably expect , that looks but with half an eye upon the very frame , and provision of the discipline . is not he a mad man , that thinks to recover a debt at common law , against any member , or members friend of the presbytery , when ' ●…is but flying to the canon of the consistory , to silence the dispute , and telling him , that he is contentious without a reasonable cause ? cannot the church put an end to strife among brethren , as well as the civil magistrate ? it is a matter of evil example , and tends to the hurt of our neighbour . if the creditor be obstinate , and will not take good counsel , out flyes an excommunication against him , for refusing to obey the orders of the church . i would now fain understand , what it is that sets so many of the ministers a gog upon this platform ; for certeinly , they are of all mortals the most contemptible : ( the iunto , and some few of the select ones excepted . ) their discipline divides the church patrimony into four parts one for the pa stor ; another for the elders , deacons , and other kirk-officers ; their doctors , and schools . a third for charitable uses : and the rest for repairing of churches , and other incidental charges . so that the clergy is strip'd already of . parts of of their legal maintenance , and then for the poor pittance that is left ; so much as will keep life and soul together , they are allow'd in meal , and mault ; and totally dependent upon the mercy of the church for the rest . and yet for this pittiful stipend , they are to be call'd to accompt how they spend it ; and their wives , and children , to be thrown at last upon the charge of the parish . in their preaching , they are limited by the direction , and design of their leaders : only tenants at will in their cures ; and lyable to be removed , suspended , or deposed at pleasure . this arbitrary dominion , together with the shameful condition of their bondage , has proved so great a discouragement to the ministry , that they have found themselves forc'd to press ministers into the service , as they would do souldiers . and where they find men of abilities for their purpose , the civil magistrate is call'd upon , to compel them to the ministry . nay rather than fail , the nobility and gentry must bring up their children , to the service , and good liking of the kirk , under pein of church-censure . a jurisdiction exercised according to the latitude of this discipline , one would think , might satisfie any reasonable sort of people . but alas ! if they do not as much exceed their own bounds , in their practise , as they exceed all other models in their pretensions , they reckon it as good as nothing . they can cite people out of a remote iurisdiction . deprive whole presbyterys for dissent . ( kings declaration , page ) call nine presbyters of fifty , a general assembly . ( spotswood , p. . ) demolish churches ( . ) and dispose of the patrimony ( . ) and what not ? more needs not be said , as to the empire they exercise over king , lords , and commons , severally , and in divers respects : we come now to their usurpations upon the common rights , and priviledges of mankind . chiding ( as i told you ) they have drawn within the compass of ecclesiastical censure . so that masters shall not reprove their servants , nor parents their children ; without leave of the eldership , ( to the utter dissolution of the order and discipline of private families . ) nay , they have taken in brawling too , and made every billingsgate quarrel , every brabble betwixt a butter-whore and an oysterwench , a subject of consistorial cognizance . under the censure of lewd customs are comprized all sorts of publique sports , exercises , and recreations , that have been long in use ; upon the worshipful pretense ( forsooth ) that they had their original from the times of paganism , or popery : as comedies , interludes , wrastlings , foot-ball-play , may-games , whitson-ales , morrice-dances , bear-baitings ; nay the poor rosemary , and bayes , and christmas-pye , is made an abomination . presb. and are not the independents as much against these fooleries as the presbyterians ? indep . no , we take our own freedom , to forbear what we dislike our selves ; and allow other people their liberty , to practise what pleases them . but to proceed . all games that bring loss are prohibited , tennis , bowles , billiards ; not so much as a game at stool-ball for a tansy , or a cross and pyle for the odd penny of a reckoning , upon pein of damnation . — shortly , boys shall not play at span-counter , or blow-point , but shall pay tell to some presbyter . — what do you think now of uncomely gestures ? that a man shall be given to the devil , for lolling upon his elbow , or set●…ing on his back-side , in the presence of the deacon of the parish . and the like for excess in eating , or apparel . every bit we put into our mouths , and every rag we put upon our backs , becomes a snare to us. it may be either too much , or too costly : and what reformation soever the kirk shall think fit to order , either in our clothes , or dyet , must be observ'd , with the same degree of submission , and obedience , as if the matter in question were an article of our creed . their censure of vain words is yet more rigorous , and reaches for ought we know , to the honestest endearments , and familiarities of friendship , and conversation , even to the exclusion of common decency , and civility . but let our words be what they will , we are still dependent upon the good pleasure of the eldership , whether they will pronounce them vain , or edifying . but why should a man expect to scape for words , where thought it self is censurable ? suspicion of avarice , pride , &c. ( as you have heard ) he that sues to recover a debt , shall be suspected of avarice . he that refuses to crouch like the asse under the burthen , shall be suspected of pride . and for a man and a woman to be only seen together , shall be ground enough for a suspicion of incontinency . nay , they shall be cited , interrogated , close-committed , and put to bread and water upon it ; and compell'd to swear in propriam turpitudinem . after all this , and that no proof appears , and that they purge themselves upon oath : it shall be yet enacted by the assembly , that if ever these two shall be seen again in company together , unless at church , or market , they shall be taken pro confesso for guilty . a whole volume ( says the author of presbytery display'd ) might be written of young women by these courses , disgraced , and defamed : of many families divided , and scatter'd ; whereas before there was never any jealousie betwixt the man and the wife . presb. these are objections rather of passion , and extravagance , then of argument . indep . they are no other then such conclusions , as the premisses will very well bear . presb. i have heard indeed of several wild , and sensless scruples charg'd upon the independents : as that they have made it a matter of religion to piss abed , and ride hobby-horses , because it is said , except ye become as little children , ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven , matth. . . indep . pray give me leave to requite you with three or four presbyterian scruples : out of bancrofts survey of the pretended holy discipline , page . move mr. cartwright , and some other our reverend brethren to deliver their iudgments , whether all laying out of hair be forbidden to all women : especicially at their repair to the publick meetings of the church ? a question riseth in my mind , whether one that professeth christ truly , may , according to the same profession , delight in , and use hawking , and hun●…ing ; so no unchristian behaviour otherwise be joyned therewith . let me know your iudgment particularly : whether it be in any respect tolerable for women , that profess religion , and the reformation , to wear dublets , little hats with ●…eathers : great gowns after the french , and outlandish fashion : great ruffes , and hair , either cu●…led , or frisled , or set out upon wires , and such like devices . i would be glad to have your iudgment in the fourth commandment : whether the strict prohibition of not kindling fire on the sabbath , be of the substance of the moral precept . in the same author you will find a catalogue of pleasant names too . the lord is near. more tryal . reformation . discipline . ioy again . sufficient . from above . free gifts . more fruit. dust. and in the next page , he tells you of one snape that proceeded toward the baptizing of a child , till they came to name it , richard , and then brake off , for fear it would not have prov'd a christian , if he had so baptized it . i cannot pass from these phantastical absurdities in your practises , without some reflection upon those in your constitution , to say nothing of your disagreements among your selves , about your officers , and discipline . what can be more ridiculous than to authorize a cobler to correct majesty , mechanicks to determine in points of faith ? are not your elders joyn'd in commission with your ministers , for the examination of the person that offers himself to the ministry , in all the chief points in controvorsie betwixt us and the papists , anabaptists , arrians , & c ? are not the elders , and deacons fit persons ( think ye ) to be made iudges of theological niceties ; and to admonish , and reprove a minister , that propones not faithful doctrine ? has not your general assembly , rather the face of a council of state , then of a counsel of the church ? ( and in truth the business too . ) behold the composition ( i beseech ye ) of the pretended assembly at glasgow , . seven earls , ten lords , forty gentlemen , and one and fifty burgesses , to determine of faith , and church censures . now to take a brief view of the whole . what greater slavery in the world , can be imagined , then to live in subjection to a government ; where you shall have , neither freedom of conscience , law , person , or fortune ? where you shall not speak , look , move , eat , drink , dress your self ; nay , not so much as entertein a thought , but at your peril ? and to be in this bondage too unto the meanest , and most insolent of your fellows ? for none but such will ever engage themselves in the exercise of so inhumane a tyranny . and for a further aggravation of the shame , and guilt of the faction : let me desire you , but to cast an eye upon their proceedings , under king iames in scotland , and here under queen elizabeth ; where you shall find that they were never so impetuous , and bold , as when they found the king , and the state in distress , upon the apprehension of forreign dangers . and so for the queen , upon the business of eighty eight : whereas the independents never so confined themselves to the prosecution of their private interests , as to hazard the betraying of their countrey to forreigners : and particularly , in the late engagements at sea , against the french , and dutch , many of them have given signal testimony , and proof of their fidelity , and valour . i should not have engross'd this whole discourse to my self , but in persuance of a point , wherein you have confest before-hand , that you had nothing further to oppose : that is to say , concerning the principles of the parties in question . neither is any thing i have hitherto deliver'd , to be taken as a challenge , and claim of a toleration , of such a quality , as to enter into a competition with the peace and security , of the publique : but this i pr●…mise my self , that if it shall appear reasonable to authority , to allow of any relaxation , the independents plea , upon all considerations of common equity , and safety , will stand good against that of the presbyterians , from whose triple-crown'd consistory ; that lords it over souls , bodies , and estates ; over kings , nobles , and commons ; over laws , magistrates , and all sorts , and ranks of men , and interests ; that turns gospel into law ; communities into deserts ; men into beasts ; good lord deliver us . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a amesius de consci . b indulg . & toler . p. . c liberty of conscience upon its true and proper grounds , p . d free disputation , p. . indulg . & toler . p. . rom. . . laud against fisher , p. . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . tim. . . indulg . & toler . p. , . mat. . . luke . . * in his book of the covenant . mat. . sleydan's comment . l. . davila delle guer. civ . di fran. l. . ibid. lib. . strada de bello belgieo , l. . liberty of consc. upon its true and proper grounds , p. . disc. of relig. preface . institur . de libertate christiana . joh. . . ●… . lib. of consc. p. . lib. of consc. p. . li●… . of consc. p. . lib. of consc. p. , . lib. of consc. p. . lib. of consc. p. . ex. coll. p. . . a ex. coll. p . b p. . c p. . d p. . e p . ex. coll. p. . p. . spotswood . hist. scotl. p. . ibid. p mr. baxter's holy common-wealth . printed . robert douglass his serm. preach't at scoone , ian. . . printed . i. goodwin's anti-cavalerism . the observator . right and might well met , anno . parliament , physick . ahab's fall. interest of england in the matter of religion . . the peoples cause stated . an. . lex rex . an. . ius populi . declarat . touching the bills march . . vi●…dicia contra tyrannos . printed . tenure of kings . . goodwin's defence of the king's sentence . mr. baxter's holy common-wealth . tenure of kings . . a survey of the grand case . printed . mr. baxter's holy common-wealth . mr. faircloth before the commons . mr. sympson . scripture and reason for defensive arms. . english 〈◊〉 ●…he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●…nce of ●…'s ●…ce . 〈◊〉 good●… . 〈◊〉 poli●… of p. in●… . lex rex . mr. war'●… analysis of the covenant . english translation . lex rex . de monarchin absolutâ . mr. cary●… at taking the covenant . . the phaenix . e. c. marshall's sacred panegy●…ique . mr. case before the commons . . mr. cala●…'s sp●…ech at guild-hall . . mr. cala●…y's n●…bleman's p●… . mr. herle before the house of lords . . mr. strickland on a thanksgiving . . m. bridges ▪ on revel . . . ex. coll. p. . an. . lex r●…x . ibid. right and might . ex. coll. pa . ibid. i●…d . scobell act●… . &c. a part . p. . b p. . c p. . d p. . e p. . f p. . a scobell acts , &c. p. . b p. . c p. . d p. . e p. . f p. . pat . g p. . h p. . i p. . k p. . l p. . m p. . n p. . o p. . p p. . q part . p. . disc. of relig. title pag. ex. coll. p. . disc. of relig. par. . p. . disc. of relig. par. . p. . disc. of relig. par. . p. . d●…sc . of relig. par. . p. . disc. of relig par. . p. . disc. of relig. par. . p. . ibid. a disc. of relig. pars . b peace offering . c indulg . & toler . d disc. of relig. pars . e peace offering . f indul. & toler . disc of r●…lig . pars . disc. of relig. pars . ibid. disc. of relig. pa●…s . disc. of relig. pars . de conscientiâ , lib. 〈◊〉 . cap. . disc. of relig. pars . * indulg . & toler . p. . sp●…swoods hist. scotl. p , . petition to the queen , p. . gilby . king 's large declar . p. . ex. coll. 〈◊〉 p. . a two papers of proposals , pa. . b petition for peace , p. . c d●…sc . of relig. preface . ex. col. . disc. of relig. indulg . & toler . p. . ex. coll. pa . ibid. . in●…ulg . & tolr . disc. of relig. s●…otswoods h●…st . scotl. p. . a petition to her majesty , p. . b second admon●… . p. . ibid. p. . first admonit . p. . second admonit . p . ex. c●…ll . p. . indulg . & tolerat . disc. of relig. pars . large declaration , p. . ibid. p , , . ibid. p. . ex coll. p. . ibid. p . matth. . v. , . disc. of relig. acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. . london ministers letter to the assembly , ian. ▪ . harmony of the lancashire ministers . p. . mr. faircloth , on iosh. . ●… . rutherford's free disp. p. . bayly's dissw●…sive epist ded. . sion-house to the assembly , . anti-toleration , p. . ☞ the ki●…ks testimony against toleration p. . acts and ordinances , part . p . ibid. . ibid. . pa. , . ☞ petition for peace , p. . , mr. calamy , of the ark , p. . a scob. acts , pars . p . b p. . c pars . p. . d p. . e p. . disc. of relig. pars . liberty of consc. p. . disc. of relig par. . p. . dise . of relig. par. . p. . indulg . & toler . p. liberty of consc. p. ●… . 〈◊〉 . liberty of conscience , p. . cambden ' s eliz. . cambden ' s eliz. . ibid. d●…sc . of relig. par. . p. . ann●… king 's large dec. p. . large declar . p. . ib. p. . * the liturgy . ex. coll. p. . p. . apol. conf. p. . de reform . advers . eccles . p. . beza cont . sarav . p. . view of the government , p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. ibid. . ibid. . ibid. . ibid. . petition for peace , p. . the old non-con formist , p. . cap . cap. . art. . art. . art. . art. . cap. . view of the government , p. . ibid. p. . . ep. bullingero , fol. baxter's five disputations , disp . . cap. . sect . . view of the government , p. . view of the gover. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. . ib. , . * scripta anglican . p. . hooker's eccles. pol. preface . two papers of proposals , p. , . institut . lib. . ca. . sect . . spotswoods hist. scotl. p. . mr. durells view of the government , p. . the late kingslarge declarat . p. . calv. inst. li. . ca. . sect . . ibid. lib . ca. . sect . . petit. for peace , p. . hooker's eccl. pol. li. . sect . . ibid. ibid. calv. inst. ca. . sect . tryal of the engl. liturgy . p. . ibid. p. . page . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. . proposals to his majesty , p. . ibid. p. . a rom. . . b by the familists . c by the antinomians . chillingworths safe way . p. rom. . . chillingworth's safe way , &c. p. . a rut●…erford's due right of presbyt . p. . b ibid. p. . c ibid. p. . d ibid. p. . rutherf . free disp. p. . ibid. p. . scobel's acts , part . p. . essay of atheism . psalm . v. . essay of unity of religion . numb . . numb . . . vers. . verse . verse . verse . verse . disc. of relig. p chillingworth's safe way , &c. p. . rom. . notes for div a -e ex. coll. p. . ex coll. p. . interest of engl. p. . ex. coll. p. . scobel's acts , part . pa. . answer to the vote of sept. . . ☞ ☞ ibid. p. . old non-conf . p. . petit. for peace , p. . par. . p. . gangraena part . p. . ibid. . ☞ rutherf . free disp. p. . gangraena , p. . free disp. p. . cotton's way , p. . burton's vind. p. disc of relig. part . p . ibid. p. . scotch discipline , p. . ibid. p. . p. . hist. of reform . printed . p. . spotsw . hist. p. ibid. p. . ☞ spotsw . hist. pa. . ibid. . ibid. : ibid. ibid. . ibid. . ibid. . a ibid. . b . c . d . e . f . king 's large declaration , p. . a ibid. . b . c pag. . scotch discipline p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p . ibid. p. . ibid. . ibid. . ad . book of disc. p. . d . book of disc. p. 〈◊〉 . s●…tsw . hist. p. . ib. p. kings large declaration , p. . declar. of the commission . p . and . spotsw hist. p. . page . . presbytery display'd . p. . ibid. p . book of discipline . p. . ibid. p . spotsw . hist. p. . unchristian rigor . excess in eating censurable . apparel . vain words . suspicion of pride . spotsw . history . p. . ibid. . book of discipline . p. bo●…k of discipl . p. . book of discipl . p. . ibid. p. . spotsw . hist. p●… . . ibid. . p. . book of disc. p. . book of discipl . p. . ibid. . ibid. p. ibid. p. . ibid. p. . presb. display'd . p. . pig to field , . ed. brow. to field . walker to field . cholm to field . dangerous positions , p. . book of discipl . p. . ibid. . kings large declaration , p. . ☞ some sober and weighty reasons against prosecuting protestant dissenters for difference of opinion in matters of religion humbly offered to the consideration of all in authority. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) some sober and weighty reasons against prosecuting protestant dissenters for difference of opinion in matters of religion humbly offered to the consideration of all in authority. penn, william, - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by g. larkin ..., london : . caption title. attributed by wing and nuc pre- imprints to penn. imprint from colophon. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. liberty of conscience -- england. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion some sober and weighty reasons against prosecuting protestant dissenters , for difference of opinion in matters of religion . humbly offered to the consideration of all in authority . . reas . because the great and mighty god , who is king of kings and lord of lords , hath not imposed matters of religion upon the consciences of men and women by any outward force : god hath not appointed death , nor bannishment , nor imprisonment , nor loss of goods , as a means to bring persons to conform to the way of his worship ; but god hath given his word , and favoured the world with such as can preach it , whose work is to invite , intreat , perswade ; and not in a lordly way to domineer over the consciences of men and women , whether they be rich or poor . . reason , because all sorts of mankind are fallable in some divine matters , even in all countreys ; the princes , the priests , and the people , are yet short of infallabillity in many matters of divinity ; yea the most eminent ministers of the gospel in the primitive time confessed they saw but in part , and they knew but in part ; and said to their fellow christians , that they would not lord or domineer over them , but be helpers of their joy. . reason , because all sorts of persons do desire this as a great good for themselves , even those that are for distressing of , and imposing upon others , would not be so dealt with themselves , but would account it hard measure , yea cruelty , to be forced to such things in religion as are against their consciences , or else to suffer in their purse or persons . as for instance , the episcopal protestant would doom it great persecution to be punished if he would not turn presbyterian , independant , baptist , or quaker ; and why then should the episcopal protestant take pleasure in punishing of , and so force any of the others to be of his mind ? and therefore great and good reason it is to walk by that blessed rule christ hath given , do unto others as you would they should do unto you , and what you would not others should do unto you , do not to them . . reason , because forcing the conscience is the ready way to make men hypocrites ; for if persons conform to any way of worship unwillingly , they cannot serve god acceptably , though the matter and form of worship be never so right , because the heart of the worshippers is not right , the service being performed by by mans compulsion ; god requireth that his service should be performed with a perfect heart , and with a willing mind ; but he that conforms by compulsion , in stead of being gods servant , he is but mans slave : and the conformity is to man , and not to god. . reason , because his majesty did sollemnly promise liberty of conscience in matters of religion , when he was at breda , just upon his restauration to his throne and kingdoms , in april . in these words : we do declare a liberty to tender consciences and that no man shall be disquieted , or called in question for differences of opinion in matters of religion , which doe not disturb the peace of the kingdom ; & that we shall be ready to consent to such an act of parliament as upon mature deliberation shall be offered to us , for the full granting that indulgence . . reason , because the prosecuting the protestant dessenters for matters of conscience , is a great disquieting of the minds of great numbers of his majesties good subjects , and a great hinderance to the trade of the kingdom , the dissenters being a great part of the trading people of this kingdom ; and some thing of this his majesty was gratiously pleased to take into his princely consideration , when he put forth his indulging declaration , by the advice of his privy councel , in march , . after a violent prosecution of that act against conventicles , in these very words : but it being evident by the sad experience of twelve years , that there is very little fruit of all those . forceable courses : we think our self obliged to make use of that supream power in ecclesiastical matters , which is not only inherent in us but hath been declared and recognized to be so by several statutes and acts of parliament ; and therefore we do now accordingly issue this our declaration , as well for the quieting of the minds of our good subjects in these points , for inviting of strangers in this conjuncture to come and liue under us , and for the better incouragement of all to a cheerful following of their trade and callings , from whence we hope by the blessing of god to have many good and happy advantages to our government . . reason , because the lords and commons assembled in parliament , sence those declarations have upon mature deliberation considered the ill consequences of prosecuting the protestant dissenters by the penal laws , and have shewed their willingness to a toleration , and prohibiting of a prosecution of protestants for matters of conscience . . reason , because the french protestants , who are the dissenters from the established worship of that kingdom , are gratiously received by the king , and kindly received and succoured by the people of england , and the french king is highly blamed for persecuting his peaceable subjects ; and therefore much more reason that protestants should not persecute one another , for it is to do the same things that is condemned in others : therefore let the words of the apostle paul be well considered , rom. . . thou art inexcusable , o man , whoever thou art , that judgest another , thou condemnest thy self , for thou that judgest doest the same things thy self ; verse . and thinkest thou , o man , that judgest them which do such things , and doest the same , that thou shalt escape the judgment of god ? . reason , there is a good and great agreement between the conforming , and non-conforming protestants , in the chief things of the protestant religion : as for instance ; . both parties believe in the holy trinity , viz. the father , son , and holy ghost : . that jesus christ is very god and very man , and the only saviour of sinners : . that salvation doth depend upon the miraculous birth , the holy life , the painful death , the wonderful resurection , the joyful ascention , the constant intercession , and the second coming of jesus christ : . both parties believe that the worship of god , and the conversations of men , ought to be according to the holy scriptures , and not according to the inventions of any sort of mankind : . both parties do deny all mediators but only jesus christ , and abhor praying to deceased saints : . both parties deny a purgatory , and do believe and profess a heaven of eternal joy for the godly , and a hell of eternal woe for the wicked . all these things more largely and plainly are made manifest in confessions of faith , printed by the dissenting protestants as well as by the conforming protestants . now the matters wherein they differ from each other being smaller then the former things , and yet such as each partty cannot conform unto without wronging their conscience , and so sinning against god , therefore they ought not to be forced . . reason , because persecution for matters of conscience is a breach of the good rules of humanity , and common civility among all sorts of men , which is carefully observed in smaller matters : as for instance , among the many creatures of god that are food for mens bodies , some things that are very pleasing and comfortable food for some men , the same things are very destructive to the health of other men ; now in this case there is such civility among all sorts of men that they hate and scorn to force one anothers stomacks , looking upon it to be an inhumane practise ; and therefore do friendly , say to each other , pray eat that which will best go down , and agree with your stomack . now for as much as conscience is greater then stomack , and the hurt of the soul greater then the hurt of the body , how much more should persons , especially protestants , be thus friendly one to another in matters of conscience ? . reason , because all protestants ought to behave themselves towards each other as brethren , there being so good and great agreement between them in the chief things of religion ; especially they being all in a like danger of the bloody papists , who if ever the government should fall into their bloody hands , ( which god of his mercy prevent ) then the same miseries that may befal the protestant dissenters , will certainly befal the conforming protestants ; if they prove true to their protestant principles , they will all be deemed hereticks , and must suffer as much in their estates and persons ; and therefore instead of persecuting one another , they should love each other , and pray for each other , and say as abraham said to lot , let there be no strife between me and thee , for we are brethren : and more especially because the popish cannonite and perrizite are now too much in the land. . reason , because the protestant dissenters do not belong to any forraign power , but do abhor , detest , and protest against all forreign power or jurisdiction over the king , the kingdom , or any of his majesties subjects ; neither are they covetous of preferment in church or state , but willingly leave that to his majesties wisdom , and desire only that they may live a peaceable life in all godliness and honesty under authority , as gods word doth direct . london : printed by g. larkin , in scalding-alley in the poultry , . a sermon against persecution preached march , , being the th sunday in lent (on gal. : , part of the epistle for that day) and the time when the brief for the persecuted protestants in france was read in the parish church of shapwicke ... / by sa. bolde ... bold, s. 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon against persecution preached march , , being the th sunday in lent (on gal. : , part of the epistle for that day) and the time when the brief for the persecuted protestants in france was read in the parish church of shapwicke ... / by sa. bolde ... bold, s. (samuel), - . [ ], p. published by richard janeway, london : . reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- galatians iv, -- sermons. freedom of religion -- great britain -- sermons. persecution -- sermons. sermons, english. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon against persecution . preached march . . being the th . sunday in lent ( on gal. . . part of the epistle for that day ) and the time when the brief for the persecuted protestants in france was read in the parish church of shapwicke . and now published to the consideration of violent and headstrong men , as well as to put a stop to false reports . by sa. bolde , vicar of shapwicke in dorcetshire . london , printed , and published by richard janeway . to the reader . reader , it hath bin my constant course for some months , to preach every sunday either on the whole epistle for the day , or some part of it . and finding i was commanded in the brief for the persecuted protestants in france , ( which was brought me in the week before the th . sunday in lent ) to publish it the next sunday ; i found there was no need to alter my wonted course , in order to my pitching on a subject which might suit with that occasion . the famous dr. patrick in his epistle dedicatory before his sermon preached before the lord major , &c. the st . sunday after trinity . ascribes his being directed to the subject he then preached on , not so much to his own prudence , as a kind of divine providence ; because having observed this same course that year , he did not on that occasion go out of his way to meet with a sitting argument . whether people will put the same construction on this discourse or not , i neither know nor care . but i think i may truly say , i have discoursed on this text , with a freedom which becomes a christian , and particularly a true son of the church of england . it may he some who pretend to the church , will take exception at this sermon , for there are some so shallow , and of so short discourse , they cannot understand how a man can except against their violent proceedings against some dissenters , and yet he himself a thorough conformist . indeed it is not of any moment what such may either say or think , but yet to give them some satisfaction , if they ever happen to be favoured with any sober and lucid intervals , i will amongst the many instances i might mention for this end , offer these few to their consideration . . i could never yet understand that conformity did oblige any man to lay aside all bowels of compassion . nay i am sure , to convince and satisfy men with reason , and by humility , gentleness , and meekness is most christian , and tends most to the honour of particular persons , and whole churches . how much of fierceness and violence there is in any party , especially if countenanced by the principles of that perswasion , so much there is of some infernal and devilish mixture in it . . those who do generally decry and prosecute dissenters with greatest passion and virulence , are greatest strangers unto them . they usually know no more of them , than they learn from some false and scandalous observator or other . . they are commonly ignorant of the state of the controversy betwixt us , and the dissenters . the true reason , why judicious and thinking conformists do use those particular ceremonies which are enjoyned , is because they are satisfied they come under the general rule given by the apostle , viz. that all things be done decently and in order . and the reason why they observe no other rites and ceremonies , ( whil'st it must be acknowledged there are others every whit as orderly and decently in themselves as these ) is because , these alone are enjoyned by an authority , they are perswaded , has power to interpose in these things . and now if others do not break the general rule given by the apostle , but apprehend that a freedom from impositions in these things , is one part of the liberty they are commanded to stand fast in , why should we quarrel with , and prosecute them ? especially whil'st they acknowledg that it pertains to authority to take notice of them who are indecent , and disorderly in their worship . is it not enough that we may act according to our own more minute perswasion , and have the countenance and incour agement of those in power , but we must ruine and oppress them who will not truckle to our fancies ? . i have had the opportunity to be acquainted both with conformists , and nonconformists . and as i acknowledg i have great cause to bless god for the worthy labors , and exemplary lives of very many in the church of england , so i ought to give others their due . and this i must say , that those of the dissenters whom i have bin acquainted with , have bin men of great learning , exemplary piety , strict devotion , and extraordinary loyalty . men who have bin diligent attenders on god in his publick ordinances , eminently religious in their families , who have had a great regard to conscience in all the parts of their conversation with men. they have neither bin haunters of taverns , nor obscene and loose in their discourse , nor have they bin guilty of sitting days and nights at cards and dice . indeed they have bin persons that could not be justly blamed for any thing , but that they had straighter notions concerning humane impositions in the service of god , than we conformists have . and a very learned gentleman had upon consideration given a very just and good reason of this . he expresseth himself in these words . i think this their scrupulosity may be of god , and that some men are by him framed to it , that he hath provided it as a bar and obstacle in the natures and complexions of some devout men , against any innovations whatsoever , that dangerous ones may not steal upon the church , for the better maintaining the simplicity and purity of christian religion and worship . if after all this , any remain unsatisfied , they may seek satisfaction where they please 〈…〉 . sa. bolde . a sermon against persecution , &c. galatians . verse . but as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit , even so it is now . there were some even in the apostles days , who laboured what they could to hinder the progress of the gospel , by preaching up the necessity of the jewish law. these having insinuated themselves into the churches of galatia , had infected many of those christians , with their poysonous and false doctrines : for though they did not openly declare themselves enemies to the gospel , yet they did supplant it as to its power and efficacy , by alledging its insufficiency alone , and the necessity of their being circumcised , and embracing those old rules god had anciently inforced under the former dispensation . they knew if they could leaven and corrupt them with these principles , they did at first so speciously display , it would not be long before they should entirely undermine that foundation the apostles had laid amongst them . for however innocent their pretences might seem at first , it is clearest paul perceived the consequence would be dangerous . christ will not profit you at all , gal. . . for this cause it is he doth labour with them so earnestly , and useth such variety of arguments to secure them from giving place any further , to those false and pernicious teachers , and to convince them of their errour and fault , in giving way unto them at all . amongst other arguments he urgeth the different state men are in when under the gospel , from that they were in when under the law : and that the law was primarily designed only to prepare and fit men for the gospel , but not to continue in the same place and power after , as before ; no more than he that being arrived to ripe and full years , is bound to continue under their tutorage , who had the care of him in his minority , gal. . . he afterwards proceeds to argue with them from the nature of that law they are so desirous to be under , v. . and then explains himself by a similitude of abraham's two sons ; shewing there is as great a difference between those who are under a gospel state , and them that are under the law , as between that son which was his natural child , and that which was conferred on him by the special promise and powerful interposition of god's particular blessing . and thus he takes occasion to reflect on the great alteration that was wrought amongst them , since they did histen to , and entertain these false and deceiving apostles . and does , as it were , tell them , it was no wonder they should thus vary , and that they should now approve ways of severity towards christ's apostles and followers , seeing they did receive and adhere to them , that were directly contrary to christ's ministers and servants . compare gal. . , . whith this . v. it is no more than what hath fallen out in all ages of the world. the servants of sathan and enemies of true godlyness , have always bin for persecuting the faithful and obedient children of god. and it seems by this epistle , to be the especial and peculiar character of them that are irreligiously and immoderately hot and zealous about ceremonies , to be the greatest persecutors of those who are most pious and conscientious . look through all the scriptures , nay look through all the ages of the church , you shall generally find that those who were most for the persecution of others on the account of some indifferences relating to religion , were very wicked superstitious men : men that were inordinately zealous for , and fond of some outward ceremonies . now if a fondness for any ceremonies would maintain and justify mens persecution of others , who cannot approve their fopperies , one would think these teachers who were crept in amonst the galathians should be excused , because they prest only those things that had formerly bin of divine appointment . for , he that came to take away the insupportable yoke of jewish ceremonies , certainly did never intend to gall the necks of his disciples with another instead of it . but here we see how dangerous it is to give our selves too great a liberty in admiring any bare external and accidental appendage to religion . sathan doth suddenly strike in on such occasions , and doth so powerfully affect mens minds with some strange apprehensions , of the beauty , excellency , usefulness , and necessity of these things , they are quite taken off from minding the inward part and soul of religion . and by this means they come to lay out all their zeal about these trifling and worthless parts , they even starve their own souls , by a constant feasting on these meer husks , and do what they can to destroy others souls , at least their bodies , by persecuting them , if they will not conceive and believe as well of these things , as they do . it is a very shrewd sign , and token that a man is a wicked unregenerate man if he be of a fierce and persecuting temper ; if he be prone to endeavour to ruine and trouble , or further the vexation and disturbance of serious pious people , only because they cannot be as ceremonious as he is . he that was born after the flesh , &c. the words do immediately relate to the sons of abraham , ismael is he that was born after the flesh , viz. in a meer natural ordinary way . now , as he did persecute , and mock , and deride , and insult over isaack , who was born after the spirit , viz. who was the son of the promise , and in order to whose birth , there was the exerting a divine power in the accomplishing of that promise which was made to abraham , when both he and sarah were past hopes , and naturally uncapable of having children , so it is now , viz. even so , those in these days , who are of the seed of abraham , that pretend they have him for their father , and are outwardly jews , or that pretend themselves so out of servile compliance , do persecute them that are born after the spirit ; that is , those who are the children of the promise , the seed of abraham , truly so called in a religious sence , who succeed him in his faith. the jews did very much boast of , and lay an extraordinary stress on their being the seed of abraham ; they placed most of their religion on this , and thought it a sufficient plea for themselves on all occasions , and an effectual security from those judgments that were sometimes threatned against them ; and therefore we find the holy men in scripture often labouring to convince them what a sandy foundation they did build upon , mat. . . john . . rom. . , , . it is indeed a great mercy to be born of pious and religious parents ; those parents that have a great familiarity and interest with god , have usually a great treasury and portion of blessings laid up with god for their posterity . exod. . . but people may lay too great a stress on this outward priviledge . and if children do not labour to walk in the steps of religious and gracious parents , but depend wholly on their predecessors holyness , they will be fearfully mistaken at last . he that was born after the flesh , &c. he that is a loose , wicked , unregenerate , carnal person , is for persecuting and undoing him that is born after the spirit , him that is serious , holy , strict , and conscientious ; thus it has bin , and thus it is . i will sum up all into this proposition . wicked , unregenerate men , always have bin , and still are for persecuting holy , religious , spiritual men. look through all the books both of old and new testament , nay look through all history , and you will still find , where ever you meet with persecution , that it was carried on by the devil's agents , by wicked , lewd men , against holy and righteous men. observe the characters every where of informers and persecutors , and see if they have not bin branded with some notorious and hateful wickedness . indeed men can scarce arrive to such a height of wickedness , as this is , till they have by the habitual exercise of other crimes , feared their consciences , and are become so insensible , that all the commendable notions and sentiments that do usually accompany mankind , are lost and eradicated out of their brests . consider these few instances of persecutors as they now occur , and then see whether all others be not of the same complexion . what an obdurate caitiff and villain was cain that slew his own brother , because more holy , and consequently better accepted with god than he was ? what a vile character is ismael all along represented under to us ? were not they drunkards that were against david , and made songs of him ? what were the false prophets that set themselves against micaiah ? were they not such as did prophecy lies ? who were those that were for the burning of the three children ? and for the casting of daniel into the lions den ? were they not all flattering and abominable idolaters ? what was judas that betrayed christ , that informed the high priests and scribes against his master the son of god ? was he not a covetous mercenary son of perdition ? what were those that swore , and gave evidence against christ ? were they not a couple of perjured miscreants ? and if you search and inquire , you will find all informers against , and persecutors of the just and holy to be of the same stamp . are not the informers and persecutors of our days like unto those that were before them ? is it not evident to all that they are notorious for perjury , falsness , drunkenness , whoredom , prophane and common swearing ? are there any more regardless of the lord's day , more irreligious and obscene in their discourse , more vile . contemptible and base in the eye and opinion of every honest , pious , good , or sober person ? are there any so unjust , so false , so exorbitantly vicious , lewd , and debauch'd as they ? now christ and religion do not allow of persecutions , of troubling and vexing , of ruining and undoing of any men for little indifferences much less for truth and holyness . they are for advancing and propagating holyness and peace , and love , and condescention . is . . , . christ came not to destroy but to save mens lives ; and sharply rebukes his disciples when they would have call'd for fire from heaven to destroy the samaritans : it is a sure token men are enemies to christ and religion , when they are of a persecuting spirit . it hath always bin the great character and glory of the christian religion , that where ever it came , it did promote and further quietness and peace , and love , and brotherly kindness ; and did banish wrath and fury , and malice , and every hateful and hurtful disposition and inclination . it was always thus , till popery got some power in the world , and then more barbarous villanies , and outragious cruelties were perpetrated under this name , than were known to the world before . and if it be carefully observed , you shall find that in all ages , those who have bin most for cruel methods against them that differ from them , have had most of the spirit of popery in them ; and it is deplorably apparent that now in our days , they who appear most vigorous and active in prosecuting those protestants who differ from others in some accidental matters , have a great affection for popery , and are hastening towards rome as fast as they can . that the following part of my discourse may be as plain and easy to you as possible , i will reduce what i design to say on this subject , to these following heads . . i will tell you what persecution is . . name more particularly the characters of them that are persecutors . . shew you whence it is that wicked men are so violently set against the godly . . i will make some brief application of the whole . i am first of all to tell you what persecution is . and it is an endeavouring to trouble , molest , disturb , kill , or any way hurt and injure another person on some religious account . every prosecution of a person , is not properly persecution , but only when it is grounded on some religious affair . a man may be guilty of sin in prosecuting another upon civil accounts , but this sin comes under another denomination , as oppression , injustice , unpeacable brangling , &c. now persecution is much what the same in religion , that oppression is in civils . when men will not suffer others to enjoy that liberty , and those rights in religion , which either nature or revelation do allow them ; but will be severe against them , if in every accidental matter , they will not be just of their mind . when men do hale others to tribunals , and procure them either to be punished in their bodies , or in their estates ; or to be deprived of their lives , or civil liberties , because they either perform some duty god has expresly commanded , in a way they do not approve , or because they will not consent to , embrace , and comply with those determinations they have just reason to believe are sinful . whilst men are not openly wicked , but tho not free from common infirmities , which do unavoidably accompany humane nature in this frail estate , yet free from gross and scandalous sins , whilst they deny not any doctrine of christianity , nor divulge any tenet to the prejudice of christianity , nor do any way endeavour to disturb the peace of the government under which they live ; they have a right to a peacable and quiet residence , and ought to be free from any molestation , tho they cannot in every accidental thing attain to the same latitude with others . whoever goes about to disturb and injure , or contract on such as these , fines , or other punishments , because they cannot receive and comply with those super numerary conceits some do too much please themselves with , and press with too much warmth on others , are too lyable to this heavy charge of persecution . and if we only consider what it is they are so concerned for , we may see too much reason , to conclude they have no great portion of commendable properties . wherefore i will now proceed to the second point , which is to account to you some of their characters more particularly , or to shew you what kind of people persecutors generally are . they are commonly observed to be the worst , the most brutish , and degenerate part of mankind . consult others , read histories , or consider what you may learn from your own observation ; you will find them to come generally under some very scandalous , and offensive characters . they are usually taken to be the very pest of society . it is almost as dangerous to live amongst them , as amongst the wild and savage beasts of the desert . they are a sort of tygers and lions , the most ravenous beasts of prey with humane visages . were the pythagorian notion of the transmigration of souls received , the whole world would then conclude them nothing but humane carcases acted with wolvish breath . more particularly they have some or all of these characters and qualities attending them . . they are men of a very superstitious , blind and ignorant zeal . and there is no one thing that makes men more formidable and troublesom , than undue and mistaken zeal . it is like fire when it meets with gunpowder and other combustible matter . it devours all before it , and its flames become unquenchable . superstitious bigots place religion in things , that are at best but bare humane inventions , many times , pure diabolical suggestions ; and then sathan to ingulfe them further , doth so excite and irritate them , they contend and strive for these things as if heaven , soul , and eternity were all at stake ; hence it is , they represent all that are not of their way and mind , as the greatest criminals and malefactors . no sooner do men place religion where god placeth none , but sathan obtains a great power and influence over them , and at last hurries them headlong into strange and wild extravagancies in the defence , and for the propagation of those points . these are usually the most fierce and barbarous of all other people . for it is usually observed that superstitious men are very fearful , and that the greatest cowards are most revengful and cruel , if they can obtain an advantage . paul's blind zeal made him a persecutor : he did it ignorantly . and our saviour tells us of some that would kill and murder men , and flatter themselves with a perswasion that they were therein doing god and religion good service . . they are men of insufferable pride and malice , there is an absolute necessity , that some degree of that popish conceit of infallibility should prevail in all that are persecutors , to reconcile themselves to their own practices ; for who can be so absurd and foolish , as to endeavour to ruine others , because they will not believe or practise what they themselves do acknowledg , they are not so certain concerning , but that it is possible they may be in an errour and mistake ? those who are persecutors do expect all should yield to them , and take them for oracles , and if they be not thus received , they think the affront is too great to be endured , and therefore must be revenged . malice and revenge hath generally a very great influence on all persecutions . your persecutors are usually people , of a haughty , curst , and poisonous nature , they love to be doing evil : their delight is to hurt and offend them , with whom god is pleased . they are canker'd and ill natured , and never pleased but when they have an opportunity to intrap , and make the innocent fall . they cannot bear contradiction . zedekiah was so impatient of contradiction , he no sooner hears micaiah bring a different messsage from his , and discover how a lying spirit was in the mouths of the other prophets , but he falls upon micaiah , and buffets him . . they are men of desperate and broken fortunes , or else great worshippers of mammon . they do commonly take up informing , and swearing , and persecuting as a trade to live by . they scarce know how to subsist but by preying on the wealth , and estates and goods , of those honest , sober , religious people they do inform and swear against . men that are so lazy they cannot work , so luxurious they have not where withal to maintain their lusts , and of so ill and blasted a fame and reputation , none dares trust them . these are indeed a fit sort of people to persecute the righteous : they cannot live unless some or other fall by their means . there are two sorts of most abominable and wicked ways , men have found out to maintain themselves , and feed their lusts by : the one is robbing on the high-way , and the other is informing against , and persecuting the righteous . now those that apply to the latter way , are the most infamous of the two ; for as they are wicked enough , to commit as great villanies as the other dares , so they have not courage to adventure on such dangerous courses , and to expose themselves to so much hazard for a livelyhood as the other do . they think it easier to swear , than hector and afright men out of what they have . the wise man seems to give a very lively description of these people in prov. . , . they sleep not except they have done mischief , and their sleep is taken away , unless they cause some to fall , for they eat the bread of wickedness , and drink the wine of violence . if there be any persecutors whose fortunes are not altogether so despicable and small , they are such as make a mammon their god ; the hopes of getting wealth doth very powerfully irritate them to what they do : was it not thirty pieces of silver that made judas betray his master ? what is the reason sinners do excite one another to wait for blood , and to lurk privily for the innocent without cause ? is it not because they hope they shall find all precious substance , and shall fill their houses with spoil ? . they are extreamly profligate and scandalous in their lives . men that are very loose , prophane , and every way debauched : such as are common swearers , drunkards , whoremongers , and professed enemies to every thing that is serious , holy , and good. men that have prostituted themselves to every lust and wickedness , that have no more of religion than an outward name , being atheists in their hearts , and many times so in their profession . such as think there is no happiness but what agrees with epicurus's conceit , making their belly their god , and minding nothing but the things of this world. your ordinary forsworn , and perjur'd wretches , are the people that do most commonly seek a livelyhood by being suborn'd to swear against them that fear the lord. they that never scruple to tear the name of god in pieces , and to affront their maker on every turn , by taking his name in vain , who emboss every word they speak , with some dreadful oath or other , who dare impudently swear a hundred oaths in an hour , without any provocation , these are the fittest men to inform and swear against , and endeavour their ruine , who have a religious and truly conscientious regard to the name of god , and every thing on which he hath stampt his image . no wonder such as these , should solemnly devore and prostitute their souls to hell , by swearing even falsly against others , when they have the temptation and incouragement of getting wealth and riches , since they are so accustomed to affront their maker , they think they never speak gentilely , unless they set their most high god at utmost defiance , and do in words at length challenge him to damn them . he that sets himself apart to sathan's service by indulging to all the lusts of the flesh , that can boast of his drunkenness , and uncleanness , of his frequent excesses , and every days debauch , that can unconcernedly , or rather with triumph speak of his hopes and desires of being damn'd for ever , that defiles the air he speaks in , and offends all he comes amongst with his prodigious oaths , and execrations : this man is ready prepared if an occasion do offer it self , or can by any means be obtained , to swear a conscientious , religious man out of his right , and himself into it . that man that will ordinarily indanger his soul , and swear for nothing , will much more do so , be it right or wrong , when he hath the temptation of wealth , and it may be the applause and commendation of great men for his incouragement . having given this account of the two first particulars . i shall now inquire whence it is that wicked men are such bitter and inveterate enemies against the godly ? constant experience is an undenyable proof of the truth of it , for no age hath passed , but the worst men have bin contriving and endeavouring to do the righteous some displeasure . we need not consult histories , to confirm what i am now treating of , for we may every where take notice of the deplorable truth and certainty of it amongst our selves . but from amongst the many instances which might be mentioned as having some influence in and concurring to this , i will only name these few . . there is a desperate and deadly enmity against godlyness , and so against good men , rooted deeply in the nature of wicked men. ever since we lost the image of god , we are by nature the children of wrath , not only as we are subject and lyable to the wrath and displeasure of god , but as we are of a wrathful , furious , and unreconcilable temper . we are naturally enemies not only to god , but to one another also . and it is to be ascribed principally , rather wholly , to the wise conduct and providence of god , that all men are not constantly up in arms , and always endeavouring the utter extirpation one of another . but this enmity is especially set against all goodness . when man lost holyness , he became a most violent adversary to it . as you observe when a man hath tasted of the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come , if he apostatize , he becomes the most virulent and implacable enemy to it . so it is with man naturally since the fall. the devils that were such pure and holy angels , are now the greatest haters of holyness . wicked men are of a curst , envious , malicious temper , they are of a persecuting nature , and have a great deal of savageness in their temper ; they are against holyness , as being contrary to their nature , and thus become so violent against good men. look at any creature , you will find it hath an aversion to those things , which are of a contrary nature , and if there be any thing of wildness , and cruelty , and savageness intermixed , then it is extraordinary violent against those which are of the contrary nature . but those things which have not such a savageness intermixt , they only testify their aversion by a peacible withdrawing themselves , not at all endeavouring the destruction or hurt of the other . this is very apparent in the wolf and the lamb : they delight not in the society one of another , but the lamb , though of so contrary a nature to the wolf , doth not seek the life or hurt of the wolf ; but the wolf is not satisfied but with the total destruction of the lamb. nor is this only because the wolf doth usually prey and feed on such creatures , for then when the hunger were satisfied , that rapacious and fierce temper would cease . that creature which is of a fierce and ravenous nature , will destroy and kill not only out of necessity , but also for sport and recreation . thus wicked men they are of a contrary nature to the godly , and have much wildness and ravenousness intermixed . they cannot sleep unless they make some to fall ; and therefore they are resembled to and set forth by those creatures which are wholy set upon destroying the harmless and innocent . they lye lurking privily in their den , that they may catch the righteous . if you ask what the reason is that the righteous and holy do not persecute the wicked , as well as the wicked do them , the nature of each being equally contrary to each other ? i answer , the roughness and severity of good mens natures is taken away by that sanctifying and altering grace which is bestowed on them , and for which they are so much hated by the other . the new nature conferred on them , hath the harmlesness of the dove accompanying it . a sanctified nature so far as under the power and influence of sanctification , hath no hatred , nor envy , nor malice , nor any other quality that is hurtful . it dares not hate or hurt an enemy . and the true reason why ungodly men do no more hurt to the righteous , is because god restrains them ; he puts his hook into their nose , and his bridle into their lips , and checks them . contrariety causeth their aversion to the godly , but it is that fierceness which is intermixed , which causeth the violence of the persecution ; as you see tygers , wolves , lions , and bears , do persue , and kill , and devour sheep , lambs , and other innocent and profitable creatures , and as hawks and kites do fly after and prey on turtle doves and pigeons , so do wicked outragious ungodly men persecute and trouble the just and holy. . their natural enmity is very much increased and excited into act by very unjust prejudices , which they imbibe and entertain with delight . a wicked persecuting person rejoyceth to hear of any thing , which tends to the defamation , and disrepute of one that is truly religious . he labors to spread and divulge it abroad , and aggravates every mistake , and almost unavoidable infirmity , representing it as an hideous and unpardonable crime . nay he usually attributes the faults of some particular persons to the whole profession . thus the very name of a pious man is odious and insupportable to him ; and he talks as virulently against , and desires as vehemently the utter destruction of every one , how harmless , good , and innocent soever , who comes under such a denomination , as against the vilest miscreant and criminal in the world , tho he never knew or heard of any hurt by the one , or any good by the other . it may not be amiss to take notice now of a sin , that prevails exceedingly at this time amongst our selves ; which is , that we have disputed our selves into so much wrath , such an aversness and enmity to one another , that dissenters , and those who pretend to the church , can scarce indure the names of one another , unless some disgraceful and reproachful term be annexed . too many of them are become such fierce adversaries one against another , that they have not only abandoned themselves from the eminent exercise of that charity and mutual forbearance , common christianity doth very much inforce , but they do with too much appetite listen and inquire after , and instead of mourning for , do rejoyce and almost triumph in the faults which particular persons on either side are chargible with ; and which is yet a greater fault , they are too frequent in applying the guilt beyond its due extent . by this means do those who are corrupt , carnal , and sensual on each side , labor to increase our animosities , and make our divisions wider and more unhealable . but it is most of all deplorable , that the malignity and poison of this course , seems to diffuse and spread it self amongst them who have given undeniable and prodigious evidences of extraordinary learning , and sometimes of very great and deservedly imitable moderation and equanimity : which discovers that when people do apply themselves to advance any party with undue warmth , they forget to observe that decorum , they have formerly commended to the world , and are too easily induced to use the meanest arts in depressing the cause they oppose . it is certainly very unbecoming and unworthy of men of great learning , holyness , and gravity to indeavour to defame all that are of the contrary perswasion , by suggesting to the world evil surmises and opinions concerning all in general , by reporting infamous stories which concern only some few in particular : for besides the injury they themselves do by this means to those that are innocent ; they both countenance the unjust methods the worst of men do use in decrying those they are against , and they furnish them with materials to carry on their design . this hath bin an ancient method , people have used to revenge themselves on the innocent . report say they , and we will report . do but either start any one story that is real , with relation to some particulars , or fraim and coin a story that will appear plausible , and let it once take air , and we will soon help to transmit it further , and by this means we shall take our revenge on them . but what a dreadful blow would be given to chrisianity in the opinion of its professed enemies , should all parties labor to rake together the foul and enormous offences of particular persons amongst those they do oppose , and then publish them to the world , as what the whole party doth either approve , or may justly be charged with ? there is no doubt but this church ( tho it's government and constitution be so pure , justifiable , and consonant to apostolical practice ) would suffer very much , should but the almost ordinary mis-carriages of a great number who pretend to the clergy be exposed to publick view ; with an account of the incouragement they meet with , or at least how free they are from threats and molestations , whilst others who lead better lives , and are more constant and diligent preachers , and do express on all occasions more of that charity and forbearance towards all men , which christianity doth so much commend and inforce , are frowned upon , and left open to the rage and fury of besotted frantick and debauch'd bigots . there is no defence against unjust prejudice . . they apprehend , that the strict and holy lives of religious men do very much reproach their lewd and vicious courses . at least they find that their pure and holy doctrines do occasion them anguish and unquietness , disturbance and trouble in the perpetrating of their beloved wickednesses . why could not herodias suffer john baptist to keep his head any longer ? it was because she could not live quietly in her uncleanness with her husbands brother , whilst he was still preaching to herod , that it was not lawful for him to have her . indeed there is not any thing doth more effectually discover the horrid loathsomness of wicked mens lusts and practices , than the chast , holy , and strict conversations of pious men . and therefore they are so much against them , even because their doctrines and lives do so much reprove their wicked works of darkness . . holy men are carrying on a different work from that which ungodly lew'd men are designing and acting . they are servants to different masters , and therefore it is not to be expected they should accord very well . the good man's work doth defeat and ruin the sinners , and therefore he is against him , and doth persecute him all he can , because he belongs not to his company , but is labouring to destroy his masters kingdom , and overthrow what he esteems his own greatest interest . if ye were of the world the world would love his own , but because ye are not of the world , but i have chosen you out of the world , therefore the world hateth you . . this proceeds many times from a very strong and powerful impulse of satan . as wicked men are his slaves and doing his work , so he doth irritate and excite in a special manner to this very instance of persecuting the godly . the devil thinks he has most work done when the greatest number of righteous men fall : and he concludes that if he could by his instruments absolutely suppress the righteous , he should reign and triumph in the world without any opposition . the devil rules in the hearts of the children of disobedience . and it is worth our observation , that immediately before judas went to the high-priest , &c. to inform against and betray his master , it is said the devil entred into him : so that one main instance , whence it is that wicked people do persecute the righteous , is because the devil is in them . the devil doth as truly possess , act , and govern them that persecute the righteous , as he did those that were called demoniacks , when our saviour was upon earth . and tho he do not cause them now to tear and rent , and torture themselves , as they did then , yet he has a more dreadful influence on their souls , and indangers them much more as to their spiritual and final estate . i am now in the last place to apply what has been discoursed concerning persecution ; and will do it in a few words . . for the support and incouragement of the righteous , when persecuted and in distress . take care that the reproaches and violences of the ungodly do not afright you from your uprightness , nor shake your stedfastness . those storms and rufling winds , their threats and menaces , should not break or overthrow you , but should rather have the same influence on you , that blasts and tempests have on firm and thriving trees , whilst they break and overturn those that are rotten and weak , they do only cause the other to take deeper and faster root . this is no more than what you must expect , and what every good man ought daily to prepare for . he that is resolved for heaven must go through many tribulations ; you are warned of such treatment before-hand . our saviour has dealt so plainly with all his followers in this particular , that it is one great part of a christians work to live alway in expectation of those things that so he may not be surprized when they come . we have our every days cross to wait for , and must be willing to take it up , and bear it away with cheerfulness , when ever it comes . we have not the clearest and most unquestionable evidences of the truth , at least the power of christianity in and over us , till we can cheerfully part with and resign up all , yea with triumph bear away reproaches , and fears , and false accusations , till we can lay down our very lives rejoycingly for christ , his gospel , and religion , if occasion be . and if god sees fit to bring you to the tryal ; it is that you may have the stronger assurance of your unfeigned love to him , and unconquerable interest in him . and that you may display the efficacy and beauty of religion unto the world in the most undeniable and constraining instances . the persecutions of the first christians gained christianity a great repute , and made such an entrance for it into the world , as could never be stopt up or hindred , till sloth , carnality , and superstitious conceits had corrupted the minds and lives of it's professors , and this happ'ned after they were burthened and over loaded , with honours , ease , preferments , and a multitude of unnecessary , and superfluous outward accommodations . the saints and people of god have met with the same treatment in all ages . this has been their lot and portion , when they have lived amongst wicked loose people . and we generally find that they took great satisfaction in it . our blessed saviour was used thus himself . how was he reviled , scorned , reproach't , falsely accused , spit upon , buffetted , whipt , and at last disgracefully crucified , by a degenerate inhumane people ? you see the greatest and most absolute innocence is not safe , from the malicious rage , and violence of ungodly men . the apostles presently after , were served in the same manner . and when they were scourged , to render them a publick scorn and reproach they went away rejoycing , that they were counted worthy to be thus used for christ . it is one part of the vocation you are called to , to suffer for christ : phil. . . the more that wicked men do load you with contumelious language , and oppressive fines and mulcts , or do inflict on you corporal punishments and torments , the more they do to raise you to the likeness of the blessed jesus . and indeed it is not the least matter of rejoycing , that they who persecute you , are only such as are born after the flesh . your enemies , are they that are enemies to god and christ ; worldly , sensual , devillish men , who glory in their shame , who make their belly their god , who are enemies to the cross of christ , and whose end is destruction . it is a much greater disgrace , to be respected and spoken well of , by such as these , than to have them always spitting out their venom , and darting forth their forked tongues and stinge against you : they will speak well of none but such as are infested with their disease . they that are the spawn of satun , will undoubtedly have ill will to the children of god. but what a rejoycing is it , that by this very means , you are so particularly assured of a most glorious recompence : besides the inexpressible consolation , god will secretly communicate at present , he has provided , and in a special manner promised incomprehensible felicities hereafter . mar. . , , . pet. . . but then you must be sure that what you suffer for , be the cause of christ . let it be true and real religion , conscience indeed , and not any groundless phancy , unreasonable humor , or unaccountable resolution and stubborness you suffer for . especially beware that none of you suffer as a murderer , or as a thief , or as an evildoer , or as a busie body in other mens matters . these are the faults and characters of persecutors themselves , and for these things men ought to suffer . see that your consciences be clear and well informed . take care to understand the thing you contend for . weigh your opinions and your practices in the ballance of the sanctnary . be sure your cause be good , and then if you are persecuted and do suffer , come under what denomination you will , and let your persecutors be who they will , of how great power and authority so ever , i dare and will pray that peace may be upon you , and upon the whole israel of god. it is the cause that makes the martyr , tho it is not alway the cause that makes the persecutor . ly . let this caution you , that you be not guilty of this sin. it will be found at last , a very dreadful thing to be a persecutor ; for by this means you become fighters against god. and dare ye resolutely provoke the lord to jealousie , are ye stronger than he ? did ever any set themselves against god and prosper ? the lord jesus doth take what is done to his followers and disciples , as done to himself . and he will terribly avenge himself of the adversaries and destroyers of his people . you cannot hurt the people of god , but you offend and pierce god himself in the apple of his eye . and will not god ( think you ) avenge his own elect which cry day and night into him ? i tell you be with avenge them speedily . it were better for you , you had never been born or that some fatal , and miserable stroke had ended your lives , as soon as you saw the light , than that you should live to be persecutors . mat. . . have not persecutors alway come to some fearful end ? if you would not pull down divine vengeance on your own heads , if you would not make your selves and your posterity infamous to all generations , by inheriting the most dreadful curses on your bodies , your estates , and all your interests and concerns , if you would not be the general abhorrence of mankind , if you would not rot away peice-meal whilst you are alive , if you would not be your own unpitied executioners , if you would not be filled with horror and consternation by reason of a wounding , terrifying and accusing conscience , if you would not purchase to your selves the hottest climate and region in the infernal pit , but can be content with an ordinary damnation , if you have no desire to be the worst , the most miserable , the most contemptible , of all that shall inherit everlasting burnings , take heed of this sin. the devil never feasts so deliciously , as when served with persecutors and informers . how variously and strangely has god testified his displeasure and wrath against persecutors ? whole volumes might be filled with bare relations . those judgments have been inflicted on them , to make them a scorn an abhorrence , and a warning to posterity , which were never known , or heard of in the world , till they were punish't and made infamous by them . and if you be persecutors god has the same , and greater plagues and judgments in store for you . i know there are few who apply themselves to this course , but they flatter themselves , and endeavour to satisfie others , with some or other false and pretended excuses . but alas what will these avail you , whilst they are so thin and hollow not only the all-seeing-god , but the ordinary sort of people can see thorough them ? unless the cause be too black and horrid to obtain the patronage of hell , or the actors be sordid and scandalous enough to make the devil ashamed of them , he will furnish with some pretence to palliate and gloss the fact. but it is not enough that you have something to plead and say in your own defence amongst men , unless it be what will be warranted and approved by the judge of all , for if you could so varnish the severity you use to others , as to obtain the favorable opinion of the generality of men concerning it , what will this avail you , if when you appear before the great tribunal , you be found amongst persecutors ? all false colours , and meretricious paint will then disappear . now to secure you from this danger , it will be needful to have a constant regard to these two rules . . have nothing to do with hurting , or contracting damages on any serious , upright , conscientious christian . be not accessory for a world to the ruine , or needless prejudice of any one , who stands fast in the faith of christ . those who agree with us in all the substantials of religion , and add no dangerous or destructive tenet to these , who are holy , sober , chast , temperate , righteous , compassionate and merciful , and who no way indeavour to disturb the publick peace , but are vigorous protestants , and resolute opposers of the common enemies of our religion , and civil rights , they ought ( especially considering our present circumstances ) to be so far from being persecuted and oppressed , as to have all the incouragement and countenance that pious christians , and loyal subjects can claim and deserve . do not hurt , persecute , or revile any , whom you have reason to believe the lord jesus will own , approve and honour . will christ ever thank men at the great day for keeping such out form communion with his church , whom he will vouchsafe not only crowns of glory to , but it may be aureolae too , if there be any such thing there ? it had been well for pilate , if he had hearkened to that seasonable message , have thou nothing to do with that just man. . take heed of , and avoid the very appearances of this sin. keep at as great a distance from it , as possible . do not cherish in your minds , any thing that may ingage , or incline to it . cast away all unjust prejudices , mortifie wrath and anger : and shut your ears against them that would incense you against those , you differ from , by reporting false and malicious stories of them . supposing it could not properly be called persecution to prosecute , and be severe with people about those things , which you are satisfied in your own minds , god has not concern'd himself about , either by commanding or forbidding them , yet your ruining or making others suffer extremely for these things , whilst they have other apprehensions either of the nature or use of them , will unavoidably look too like persecution ( i think ) for a serious compassionate christian to tolerate himself in . this seems not to have any of that meekness , condescention , and forbearance our religion doth so expressly and so vehemently inforce . nay your addicting your selves to such courses will indanger the indearing of a rough , sowre , and unpeaceable temper to you . and it may be it will at last hurry you , into such exorbitances , as you did not at first either design , or think of ; nay which will amount to inexcusable and down-right persecution . this will certainly make way for your entertaining very unjust prejudices against others . it will lay you lyable to greater transports in your passions . it will expose you to more and stronger temptations , than you are at first aware of , it will lay you open to the wiles of satan , that cunning adversary , and great destroyer of the godly . nay it is probable enough , that when those christian sentiments and resolves , you do at present retain , are a little worn off , and by disuse become feeble , the very desire and ambition of acquaintance with men of power and repute , who are enemies to protestants as such , may ingage you in those practices , which both your deceitful hearts and the better hopes of others , made you believe you should for ever detest . satan very seldom attempts to draw any man to direct persecution at first ; he only leads them at first to the out-skirts , and fleshes them by degrees . but when he has once brought men to take pleasure in seeing others suffer , tho not for real religion , the sweetness of blood , or the satisfaction of getting wealth , or the honour of being caressed by great men , will indanger to qualifie them to undertake with unconcernedness and triumph the most barbarous and inhumane persections imaginable . men know not where they shall stop , if once they give way to satan , or their own corrupt inclinations in matters of this nature . people do sometimes act those things under the alteration of their outward estate and condition , and become so extremely savage and cruel as they could not before imagine , which they could not endure to think of without the highest concernment and indignation . kings . , . but notwithstanding all this , you may express your , love to , and zeal for the church , its service , and its ceremonies , sufficiently other ways . i disswade not from any methods , which do any way tend to the honour of our church , or to the making of real proselytes : but only from those which indanger its reputation , and are not at all suitable to the matter and occasion of our differences . i would perswade you to be as faithful as possible to the church and its interests , but not to express your zeal in so confused and preposterous away , as will be destructive to humane society , or indanger your washing your hands in the blood of innocents : use all the scripture , and rational arguments you can , to winn upon , and overcome , and convince them that dissent , but beware of extremity and violence . how ridiculous and absurd is it , to hear men talk very gravely at sometimes , that the church hath no weapons but tears and prayers , and yet presently to see the same men using rods , and swords , and axes in the churches behalf ? when the church is in danger of being clouded , eclypsed , and overcome , and supprest by popery , then it is unlawful to endeavour to help ourselves , we must only lie prostrate , and try if we can wash away our sorrow with our tears , or at most , content our selves with lord help us . but when we consider them we have got an ascendency over , it becomes glorious ( and indeed is more than christian ) to swagger and triumph , and tread upon men of the same regligion with our selves , only because they differ from us in some unhappy circumstances . when the church doth stand upon its proper basis , and shines in its native beauty and lustre , there will be no hurting in god's holy mountain . that method which hath most of lenity , forbearance , love , and meekness , doth best comport with the nature and design of christianity , and most answers that temper , our saviour and his apostles commended to the world , both by their practices and precepts . luke . . tim. . . ly . let me say a few words to you that are persecutors , you that are vilifying and reproaching , fining , and distraining on , murdering and tearing in pieces the members of jesus christ , if you have any shadow of humanity yet remaining , be perswaded to refletect on what you do , consider what your condition is , if you are not become cruel like the ostriches in the wildernese : if your consciences be not feared with a hot iron : if you do not believe that your impieties are a sure and impregnable safeguard and defence against all the thuander-bolts of god's vengeance , if you think they do not make you as impenetrable by the arrows of the almighty , as the scales of the leviathan , render him by the arrows which are commonly cast at him , then deliberate a while , and think seriously , whether one time or other , you shall not be ashamed of , and sorry for what you now perpetrate ? if you believe there is any truth , or any honesty , or any things that are pure , or just , or lowly , or of good report , or if there be any virtue , then consider how contrary to , and inconsistent with all these , persecution is . persecution is a sin that destroys common humanity : it makes you much more fit to be banish'd from all reasonable society , to abide in the wilderness and desert , with the ravenous devouring monsters you resemble , than to be permitted to prey on those , who are as humble as the child , as meek and innocent as the dove . you that are informers and persecutors , be you who you will , of what name , size , quality soever , you are of the worst extraction of all other creatures . ye are of your father the devil , and the lusts of your father , ye will do ; he was a murderer from the beginning , and abode not in the truth , because there is no truth in him. and if you believe not this , you may read the reason of your unbelief in the next verse . because i tell you the truth , ye believe me not . you are at present the reproach of humane race . judgments and curses of the greatest size do await you here , and are ready to be poured out upon you , to make you instances of astonishing vengeance , an abhorrence to all the world , and an insupportable bur than unto your selves . nor is this your whole portion , for more than ordinary wrath , those torments , and horrors , which have peculiar , and most envenomed mixtures in them , are prepared and kept in store , to make your eternity . more amazing and dreadful , than that which will for ever be the punishment of other sinners if depart from me ye cursed , into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels , be the mildest sentence which shall be pronounced on them , who have only with-held their charity , and not administred to the necessities of christ's members ; what a terrible damnation must you expect , who have both hardened your selves against all their tears , and complaints , their groans and entreaties , and added affliction to their affliction ? what will be your doom when christ shall come to be glorified in his saints , and shall charge you in particular with pulling the food out of the mouths , and cloaths from the backs of his dearest children , yea with eating their very flesh , and drinking their blood ? with taking from them their means for subsistence , rifling their houses , devouring their goods , wasting their estates , and haling them to goals and prisons ? you that persecute the righteous , that you may maintain your lusts , and gratify your luxurious appetites and desires , with their wealth and estates , there is a dreadful hand of vengeance ready to appear against you . for all your huffing and hectoring , your swearing and damning , your carouzing and quaffing , your healthing and whoring , for all your seeming jollity and mirth , your countenances will change , paleness shall seize your faces , astonishment and fear your minds : you are at present but acting afresh belshazzar's folly and wickedness : you are drinking the blood of innocents instead of wine , you are feasting your selves with the substance of the righteous . the vessels you use , are purchased with the lives and estates of the just and upright . for these things god will not refrain , but will certainly be avenged of such wickedness . when the divine hand doth write your doom ( as certainly it will ) then will your countenance be changeed , and your thoughts troubled , the joints of your loins will be loosed , and your knees will smite one against another . your making your selves drunk with wine , and your being compassed about with great men and nobles , with your wives and concubines , will not preserve you from these effects . what will you say for your own vindication , when the lord jesus shall appear in all his glory , and particularly charge you , with hurting , defaming , impoverishing , starving , fining , and murthering this and that friend , servant or child of his ? for all your confident domineering at present , tho you look and talk now , as if you would frown , and threaten , and swear them , and all that are advocates for them into goals , nay in to their graves , and were it possible lower than that ; a time is hastening when shame and confusion will cover your faces , and an ignominious silence shall betray your guilt . a day is now approaching when you will think it a kind of happiness , if you might slink privately into the places of eternal torment , and so escape the solemn reprimand and condemnation you must have for this sin in particular , before all the world. i know there are several things you insist on , to justify your selves in what you do . but alas , they are such poor , and thin , and slight excuses , they will be so far from yielding you any relief in the judgment-day , that had you any shame , or grace , and modesty , you would blush to name them at present . and that you may not any longer cheat your selves with a vain pretence , that you have enough to justify you in what you do ; i will briefly name what you principally trust to , and then shew you how foolish and impertinent such excuses be . there are three things generally insisted on by informers , and persecutors for their own vindication : they are these . . they say they do no more than what the law doth countenance them in . . the persons they prosecute are dangerous , seditious , rebellious people . . what they do , is out of love to , and zeal for the church . these things are commonly alledged , and people do depend on them as sufficient and unanswerable . but how unjust these pretences be , when pleaded by foreign persecutors of the protestants , i hope all are satisfied who do heartily approve the reformation . now the prosecution of dissenting protestants amongst our selves , is generally defended by the same arguments . and tho i acknowledge there is a great difference in the things , on the account of which the protestants are prosecuted here , and in other palces , yet all those abatements being allowed for , the generality of our fierce and furious prosecutors cannot be excused from guilt by these instances . this will appear more clearly if we consider the particulars pleaded distinctly , and by themselves . first , you say you do no more than the law alloweth . to this i answer in these following particulars . . you do generally understand the law as little as any other people . and often times when the law is on a mans side , as to the matter of what he does , it is against him in the method he observes . this is undeniably evident in the prosecution of the protestants in france . . those who have had as good opportunities as any others , to find out the intention and meaning of the laws , do put another interpretation on them than you do . and therefore you had need to have strong assurance you are in the right , before you adventure on those courses you cannot justify , but by such a pretence as in general , is a very blind and imperfect excuse . for instance , if the law condemns seditious preaching , and you will prosecute and undo a man only for preaching , and not prove any thing of sedition , you are certainly so far from having the law to justify you , that this general plea will not excuse you to a conscience that is in any measure sensible of ordinary obligations . . the prosecution of these laws hath bin declared inconvenient and hurtful to the protestant religion , by them who understand the nature , the tendency , and the obligation of these laws , as well , or better than any of the violent and outragious prosecutors of them . and tho this cannot repeal or make null the laws , yet the publick opinion of so great , honourable , and august an assembly , should have so much influence , as to check the inordinate zeal some are too apt to lay out in their unnecessary informations and presentments . . if you must needs express your zeal for established laws , there are others which you may understand more easily , and the transgressing of which will be more obvious to you , and in the pursuance of which , you may do the church and the kingdom good service , viz. those laws which are made against swearing , drunkenness , prophaning the lord's day &c. have not those laws which are inforced by god as well as men , as great a power and authority over you , as those which are only humane sanctions ? your talking of the law is of no weight , whilst you your selves do resolutely transgress every day , those laws which are of greater and more general life . ly . but you say in the second place , that those you prosecute are dangerous , seditious , and rebellious people . if you can prove this charge against them , in gods name go on and never spare them . but is it not very unjust to say they are rebellious , and not prove any thing of this nature against them ? why do you not inform against them under this notion , and then prove it substantially against them ? but to talk thus , and when all comes to be inquired into , it is nothing but for serving god , when it may be , you were serving the devil , and your lusts in a tavern or brothel house , is the most villianous wickedness imaginable . is not this to write after the most extravagant instance we have in the french persecutors ? nay is it not to out-do what is reported of the intendant of rochefort who suppressed a protestant minister , when the deponent could say no more , but that tho there was nothing to be found fault with in his words , yet he perceived his thoughts were not innocent ? besides many of those you prosecute , have given great demonstrations of their loyalty , having suffered more in the late times of usurpation , for the king , than many , if not all of you have , and contributing much more to the bringing of him back to his crown , and other just rights . those who never did more for the king , than make themselves drunk with drinking his health , are not fit to compare in point of loyalty with them that lost their estates , and hazarded their lives for him . and many of the most considerable dissenters , did even then , when it was not so safe to do it , as it is now , openly declare against it ( i. e. the murder of the late king ) both in their sermons and writings . this is what in justice cannot be denyed them , and many of them were no less active and industrious , and were indeed highly instrumental in the bringing home of his majesty that now reigns . ly . you pretend that all you do is out of love to , and zeal for the church . to which i offer these following considerations , which may discover how false this pretence is . . you are not qualified to do the church any service . the church suffers more by the ungodliness , and debauchedness of your lives , than by any one thing whatsoever . all the dissenters in the nation cannot prejudice the church half so much , as you drunken , swearing , prophane informers and persecuters do . indeed the church would be much better without you , than with you . and could she proceed against you in some of those ways , you would have her use against others , she would do herself great right , and very much commend that purity , and holyness and strictness , which would greatly adorn her , and which is by your means very much obscured . can any thing reflect more upon a church , than to have those men countenanced in prosecuting others , who do themselves discover no real love to god or religion , and of whom no good can be said by others , nay who have nothing to say in their own vindication , but that when they are in the height of their debauches , when they are drunk and prophane enough to be the reproach and abhorrence of all society , they do then pretend to admire and applaud the church , and to decry , and rail at , and swear against dissenters ? you do the church an unspeakable injury , you prejudice her almost beyond repair , by pretending either love for , or alliance unto her . for by this means you do what you are able to represent her to strangers , as the only receptacle of , and sanctuary for the most infamous criminals and villains . it is no credit to any woman , be she never so chast , sober , and honest , that the greatest debauches , and lewdest miscreants are incouraged for her service , and claim her patronage . and that which renders you still more unfit for this service . you intrude your selves into , is , that you would make the church consist only of such as your selves , and dare impudently decry all the sober , moderate , and pious conformists , with the same virulence you set your selves against them you call nonconformists . so that were it in your power , you would turn the church into a meer stew , or alehouse , or school of sin and debauchery . there are , god knows , too too many debauchees in the nation , who would be thought great champions for the king and the church , but do infinite prejudice to both , by the mad and frantick expressions of their zeal , who do mighty honour to fanaticism , by charging all with it , that run not with them to the same excess of riot . as to all those who pretend to be of our communion , and yet live scandalous lives , and think that their owning themselves for the sons of the church , will make atonement for their immoralities , it is to be fear'd they have done us more hurt , then ever they will do us good . and unless they would reforme , it may perhaps be wished that we were rid of them . let them declare themselves fanaticks , papists , any thing rather than members of the church of england . it would perhaps be more desirable to live in a mean , low , afflicted condition without such company , than to govern the world with it . . this is an old hypocritical pretence with which the enemies of god and religion have usually cover'd their wicked persecutions and barbarous cruelties . this cannot secure you from vengeance . god incourages his people to hope that he would appear for them , and against such as should make this pretence for their persecuting them . hear the word of the lord ye that tremble at his word , your brethren that hated you , that cast you out for my names sake , said , let the lord be glorified , but he shall appear to your joy , and they shall be ashamed . they pretended what they did against them that trembled at the word of the lord , was for the church , and that god might be glorified , but yet god would bring them to shame for their hypocrisie . i am afraid there are many who talk high for the church , who would be glad to see her welter in her own blood , or consumed to ashes with those flames they hope to kindle by their own furious , or intemperate zeal . people who are wicked enough notwithstanding their loud crys for the church , to set her on fire themselves , and then like nero , triumph , and dance , and sing , when they behold her devouring flames , and utter devastation . as some in the late times did very wickedly face rebellion with the name of religion , so it is to be fear'd some in these days do cloak popery , revenge , and hatred to all piety , with the name of the church . all that swear by the name of the lord , and make mention for the god of israel , do not do it in . truth nor in righteousness . . your not prosecuting them , who play and drink , or walk & loiter away the lords day , and other times they should alot for the publick service & worship of god , does plainly demonstrate it is not any hearty concernment for religion , or the honour of the church of england , which ingages you in these methods , but rather an invincible detestation to holiness and truth as such . could you with the like impurity , shut up our church doors , and revile our liturgy , and cast contempt on our bishops , and all the other serious and hearty officers of our church , who oppose and contradict you in your lusts and wickedness , it is not much to be doubted , but you would be as severe and tyrannous this way , as you be the other . if you have such love to the church , why are you so mild and favourable , and gentle towards the papists , who are as great enemies to the state as to the church ? why are you not for getting those laws executed which are in force , against field and street walkers , and those that haunt ale-houses , and taverns , and who are playing at cards , or dice , when they should be at church ? and those who are rattling about in their coaches , or other ways conveying themselves from one place to another , on the lords day , and in time of divine service , to perform some idle and sacrilegious visits ? . the methods you use are no way becoming the church . they will never do the church any service . force and violence will never satisfie mens judgments . they will not extirpate those unjust prejudices , people have suckt in against our church , but will rather confirm them . these courses will not fairly remove mens scruples . suppose you should force many to come within the doors of our churches , by harsh and severe proceedings , what is our church the better for this ? can you , together with outward compulsion , infuse into their minds an affectionate love to , and unfeigned approbation of our service and worship ? if not , you may make our church fuller of hypocrites than she was before , but not fuller of real and cordial proselytes ; you may turn the places for our publick worship into prisons , if you please , but you cannot by these mean's make the dissenters a willing people in the day of your power . the members of the church must be volunteers , and not press'd men . such as are forced will never do acceptable service . they will embrace the first opportunity to relinquish and bespatter us . it has hitherto been the certain property and character of heterodox , heretical , popish , and anti-christian churches and people , to persecute and oppress others , or to use violent , fierce , and ruining courses to advance themselves and their interests . and it was the way of the pure christian church , anciently , and since the reformation , to use no methods with their enemies , but what were full of reason , scripture , meekness , and christian forbearance . the learned bishop of st. asaph , does determine the question , who are the church of god ? or who are the enemies of it ? by bringing it to this issue . that they who are most given to hate and destroy others , especially those who differ from them in religion , they are not the church of god , or at least they are so far corrupt in that particular . these courses do not agree and suit with the temper and constitution of our church . and therefore i am afraid they who use these methods , or countenance and incourage them who appear boistrous in them , are either ignorant of , and strangers to our constitution , or implacable enemies to our church . instead of doing the church any service , they seem to study to do her all the mischief they can , under a contrary pretence . it is not the genius of our church , she hath no doctrine that teacheth persecution , she hath not practised it , as others , when they were in authority , i thank god for it , and i hope she will alway continue in that temper , which being added to the other marks of a true christian church , may assure no that she is a church according to the mind of christ . it was one thing that did not a little commend the protestant religion to the world , that after it's establishment in these nations , tho popery gained power again in these kingdoms , and influenced it's professors to treat the protestants with all the cruelty and outrage that religion doth inspire men with , or direct them to , yet when in queen elizabeths reign popery was cashier'd , and the protestants had the power and laws on their side , they used no violence , fury , or revenge at all ; tho living in the midst of them , whose dearest friends and relations they had murdered , and tho protestants could say there goes he that burnt my father , or he that murdered my brother , or that brought them to that cruel death , tho the queen her self could say who they were that in her sisters time , dealt most insolently and barbarously with her , yet when she came to be their queen , for ten years , she touched not a hair of any of their heads . notwithstanding bonner had in the preceding reign been a most bloody and barbarous persecutor of the protestants , and had often in his persecution of them exceeded what the law allowed , yet this was not revenged upon him , no , so far were the reformers from doing any thing that might look like revenge that he was suffered to go about in safety , and was not made a sacrifice to the revenge of those who had lost their next friends by his means . it was peace , and love , and mercy , and condescention and meekness , which brought repute to this church formerly , and adorned it in it's most flourishing state : and why should you now change it's ancient methods , if your love to it , be the same , and your zeal as regular , as was that of our first and best reformers ? ly . in the fourth place this discovers what ill offices they do ( whether they be of the clergy , or in other places of power ) who are continually exciting people to inform against all dissenters , without making any difference . peoples spirits are apparently over-heated already . they are cast into too violent a ferment ; and therefore rather then use any means to exasperate their passions more , we ought all in our places , to do what we can , to cool these hearts , and reduce men to more calm , and gentle tempers . especially should this be the care and study of them , who pretend they have a right to that character , of being ambassadours , and heraulds of peace . your loud declamations , your passionate and envenomed instigations , and your founding alarms from the pulpit against dissenters in general ; will not please , nor gratifie nor benefit any , but the sensual , debauch't part of your auditors . this will endanger the creating ill apprehensions of the way you pretend to , in the minds of the soberer and more harmless sort . such kind of preaching will be interpreted , but like clapping your hands , and lowing on the dogs , which instead of bringing people into the church , will be apt to drive them out of the church-yard . st. paul directs us to a more christian method , and such an one as will , if generally , faithfully , and diligently observed ( and we are qualified to make use of it ) make thousands of more real proselytes to our church , than common informations , fines , and other punishments will make , tim. . . . ly . this calls for your prayers for , and your commiseration , and pity , and what other help and assistance you are able to administer to them that are persecuted . you have this day heard that your neighbour-protestants are in a very afflicted and calamitous estate . this calls for your pity , your prayers , your help , and what relief you can afford them . you know not how soon your own condition may be the same with theirs , if you will resolutely adhere to your religion , and dare not deny christ and his gospel ; you are at present safe , you injoy the protestant religion peaceably , but you have no assurance , this prosperous and shining day will continue long . now if you would find help , and relief from others , when destitute , afflicted , and persecuted , have some regard to , and let your bowels yern over your persecuted neighbours , in this their day of affliction . nature , religion , christianity , all that is good and excellent intreat , and importune your charity . can you deny these sufferers ? can you withhold any thing from christ , imploring and beseeching your commiseration in these his afflicted , persecuted members ? can you eat and drink , and feast your selves , and be merry , and have no concern for christ's wandring , naked , indigent , distressed servants and followers ? ye that put far away the evil day , and cause the seat of violence to come near , that lye upon beds of ivory , and stretch themselves upon their couches , and eat the lambs out of the flock , and the calves out of the midst of the stall , that chant to the sound of the viol , and invent to themselves instruments of musick like david , that drink wine in bowls , and anoint themselves with the chief ointments , but they are not grieved for the affliction of joseph . therefore now shall they go captive , with the first that go captive , and the banquet of them that stretched themselves , shall be removed . but that you may be more duely affected with their condition , i will lay before you the same account , which is given of it , by the most impartial , learned , and celebrated historian of this age . the account is this . those born in the communion of the church of rome are required not to change their religion , which was left free before . schools and colledges are suppressed in most places . the churches which the protestants had in the country or small towns , are generally raised , and all religious meetings in private houses are forbidden . the synods and colloquies of their clergy are fordidden except a popish commissioner is present , the singing of psalms is prohibited . when they are sick , they are forced to admit the popish magistrates to come with witnesses to exhort them to change their religion : no midwives are permitted to practise but papists , that so they may baptise their children , upon which it may be afterwards pretended , if they continue protestants , that they are reliapsed , because they were baptised by a papist , and the punishment of this is terrible . no minister , elder , or deacon may go and visit their flocks , to confirm them in their relgion , when they are wavering in it ; accusations are brought upon the sleightest pretences against the ministers or others that are noted for their zeal in the cause of religion , upon which orders for their imprisonment are easily given out , and they are either forced to fly , or are ruined by a long imprisonment . and the intendants of the provinces oppress them most unmercifully , with design , as may be easily guessed , to drive them into a rebellion , that so a pretence may be given to destroy them all at once . no protestants can be admitted to any charge or employment , how mean soever it be . nor may they be received to any trading or mechanical corporation . and to take from them all confidence , or credit in trade , if any protestant merchant turns papist he cannot be sued for his accounts , or debts , for three years thereafter . and these orders are much heavier in the manner in which they are executed . the present proceedings in poictu shew what the rest are to look for , the mercenary agents of mr. pelisson prevailed so far on the weaknesses and necessities of many , as to draw them to adjure their religion , but not a few of these soon after repenting of that base bargain , by which for a few crowns , they had sold their souls , and openly expressing their horror for it , were clapt in prison , where they lye still in great misery , only their numbers are such that it seems it is not thought fit to proceed to extremities against so many at once . but the intendant of that province , mr. de marilliac , whether directed by secret orders , or set on by the fierceness of his own temper , or by his confessors is not known , is resolved to take a severe revenge of the rest of that religion , for the sake of those unhappy relapses , and has treated them not as peaceable and obedient subjects , but as open rebels , and declared enemies . their goods and their houses are robbed , and their persons violently assaulted , and all that , is done by the intendants order . the soldiers under his command are lodged only in the houses of those of the religion , where they do not only ruin their hosts , by the excessive charge they put them to , and by the contributions they exact from them , but use all the means they can think of to frighten them out of their religion ; tho the horrid oaths and blasphemies they break out daily in , are but ill arguments to perswade men to turn . if they refuse to go to mass they cudgel them , they drag the women by the hair of the head , with ropes about their necks , they torture some with their screws , they bind men of eighty years of age , and abuse their children before their eyes . and such of the souldiers as are not guilty of those cruelties , yet spoil and rob their goods , and sell them publickly , they threaten them often with death , if they will not change , having naked swords in their hands , or holding pistols to their breasts . and if all these means are ineffectual , then they carry them in sheets to churches , and fling holy water on them , and tell them now they are made catholicks , and if they return again to their heresy , they threaten them , they will accuse them as relapsers . and when house-keepers are by these means quite ruined , yet they must not give up their houses , tho they can keep them no longer , but are fined livers if they quit them . and that which has always bin the priviledge of the miserable , is now denyed them , for when they come to complain of these violences to the intendant , he without hearing them , or observing the common forms of justice , sends them presently to prison , and keeps them still there , without framing any process against them , and not content with all this , tho it is scarce to be imagined what can come after it , or rise beyond it ; when he heard that complaints were made of these outrages to the king , he sent upon that , his officers to may of their houses , to force them to sign a denial of the truth of these violences , which they had suffered . and that which aggravates their misery , and therefore renders them more deserving of our commiseration and help , is , that they are a people , who have done extraordinary services for the crown , and could never yet be charged with any undutiful demeanour to the government . and they have the same rights and priviledges with the other subjects , assured to them by as firm edicts , and binding laws , as any by which that nation is govern'd : and yet purely on the account of their religion , without the guilt or charge of any fault , and in direct contradiction to those laws which were made , and often confirmed for their security , are they now persecuted to the degree before mentioned . this shews that neither the best services , the greatest innocence , the highest merits , nor the most sacred and solemn tyes , ingagements or laws can secure a protestant people from being treated as the vilest criminals and rebels , when under the power , influence and authority of a popish bigotted prince : ly , which in the last place calls us all to prepare our selves for persecution . what clouds do hang over us ? what storms do threaten us ! we are none of us ignorant of the attempts which have bin made , and are still carrying on , to supplant and overthrow the protestant religion , and to bring in popery amongst us , as an overflowing stream . and that which greatly threatens our loss of the gospel , and those ordinances we have long enjoyed , is both the great and general increase of wickedness and debauchery amongst us , and that too many of those who have pretended to desire and endeavour our security and reformation , have set up for atheism , or at least have declared themselves enemies to the scripture , the deity of christ , the publick ministry , and all ordinances . and it is not much different whether we have our bibles , our services , and publick administrations in latin , or whether we have none at all . these things do witness against us , and unless we do throughout the nation , set upon a serious and vigorous reformation , we may expect our candlestick will be removed ; and that we shall either be stript of all our present enjoyments , or at most but inherit the name of them . and if such days do come , then all who will live godly , must certainly suffer persecution . nor do i at all doubt , but if either popery , or atheism , or both , have in these nations , the countenance and incouragement of a prince , the very same men who are now violent against protestants , and pious people , will then with greater fury persecute , oppress and destroy all that will either own and worship god , or reprove themselves avowed protestants . let us therefore study the scripture diligently , be thoroughly informed in the christian faith , get our hearts raised to an unconquerable admiration and love of the blessed jesus . let us take heed of placing too much confidence on a natural resolution , or humane strength . let us learn to resign up our selves entirely unto christ ; and pray daily that we may not fear any of those things which we shall suffer , but that we may be so strengthened and assisted by the spirit of grace , that we may approve our selves faithful unto death . thus we may attain to inherit a crown of glory , which god of his infinite mercy bring every one of us unto , for the merits sake of jesus christ , our blessed and only saviour , and redeemer , to whom with the father , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e mr. hunt's appendix to his argument for bps. right in judging in capital causes in parliam . p. . notes for div a -e dr. stillings . pref . to irenic . doct. st . ly . john . . . king. . . prov. . . . ly . heb. . . . jer. . . mat. . . john . . eph. . . luk. , . ly . pet. . . cor. . . zech. . . luk. . . . dr. stilling . irenic . praef . mat. . . js . . . lam. . . tim. . . john . . vers . . dan. . vers . . vers . . st . vid. dr. burnet's pref. to his hist . of the rights of princ. &c. vid. res . of house of comm. jan. . . which seems very consonant with our soveraign . judgm . when at braeda . answ . present state of protest . in france , p. . dr. burnets fast serm. on of jan. p. . ly . dr. fowler 's assize serm. . p. . dr. sharp's serm. before the house of commons april . . . is . . . is . . . serm. before the house of lords , novemb . th . . p. . id. p. . id. p. . dr. burnets hist . refor . part . d. p. . ly . ly . amos . . to the . v. dr. burnet's praef . to his hist . of the rights of princes in the disposing of * ecclesiastical benefices , &c. p. . &c. vid. present state of the protestants in france , and the policy of the clergy of fran. to destroy the protestants of that kingdom . id. p. . id. p. . ly . toleration discuss'd by roger l'estrange. l'estrange, roger, sir, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) toleration discuss'd by roger l'estrange. l'estrange, roger, sir, - . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- england. toleration. freedom of religion -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , geo. stradling . s. t. p. rev. in christo pat. d. gilb. episc. lond. à sac. domest . aed . sab. 〈◊〉 . . . toleration discuss'd . by roger l'estrange . ferre quam sortem patiuntur omnes , nemo recuset . sen. troas . london , printed for henry brome at the gun in ivie-lane , . the praeface . i am not so vain , as to expect , that any man will be either the better , or the wiser , for what i write ; and yet , when i consider , that god himself , is pleas'd with free-will offerings ( though ne're the richer for them ) i make that thought my measure : and how incapable-soever of doing the publique a service , i think my self ; yet honestly oblig'd to offer it a duty ; and this poor little is my all. the subject i treat of , is , toleration ; wherein ( with modesty ) i have not ventur'd beyond my reach : for , upon the ventilation of the question , it seems to mee , that it is one of the hardest things in the world , for the non-conformists to say what they would have ; and one of the easiest ( on the other side ) to overthrow all they can say . to give the reader a clear , distinct , and impartial prospect of the matter , i have layd the debate before him in colloquy ; and under the names of conformity , zeal , and scruple , are represented the three grand partyes , orthodox , presbyterian , and independent . that which first put mee upon this theme , was the great and irregular earnestness , that was not long stnce employ'd , toward the procurement of a toleration . concerning which , i found my self at a double loss : first , touching the proposition it self ; and secondly , about the manner of promoting it . as to the former , me'thought toleration in gross , was of something a mysterious latitude ; but upon the taking it in pieces , i perceive , that nothing can be plainer than the meaning of it ; and the truth is , it means [ not to be understood ] that they may be sure to make something on 't , whether it hitts or misses . the one way , they may do what they please ; and the other way , there 's a ground for a compleynt . a second thing that surpriz'd me not a little , was the manner of introducing it ; for , it was usher'd in by all the querulous wayes of compleynt and aggravation , imaginable : which i presume , they would have forborn , had they but been acquainted with the iustices opinions ( in the d of king james ) upon that very point . it was demanded by chancellor ellesmere , whether it were an offence punishable , and what punishment they deserved , who framed petitions , and collected a multitude of hands thereto , to prefer to the king , in a publique cause , as the puritans had done , with an intimation to the king , that if he deny'd their suit , many thousands of his subjects would be discontented ? whereto all the iustices answer'd , that it was an offence finable at discretion , and very near to treason and felony , in the punishment , for they tended to the raising of sedition , rebellion , and discontent among the people . upon the rejection of their suit , the business was husht , till of late ; when the revival of their pretensions , together with the dispersing of divers virulent libells , mov'd me to gather up my thoughts , which i here submit to the fate of my other weaknesses . i might say twenty things , to excuse the slips of my distracted leisures ; but i shall rather recommend what 's worth the reading , than trifle away a complement for that which is not . i caus'd a little tract lately to be re-printed , under the title of presbytery display'd : who was the author of it , i know not ; but it is certainly , a iudicious , and well-order'd draught of their government ; and may serve to stop any presbyterian's mouth that opens for a toleration , which how formidable - soever it may appear in a petition , is certainly a most pitifull thing in an argument . the contents are to be found at the end of the book . toleration discuss'd . introduction . zeal and conformity , and to them scruple . zeal . good morrow to ye , conformity . conform . welcome , zeal . is this your eight a clock ? as sure as i live , a presbyterian forfeits his charter that keeps touch with a son of the church . zeal . 't is late i confess , but i could not possibly get away sooner . conf. and i beseech ye ( if a body may ask ) what mighty business hinder'd ye ? zeal . guess . conf. why then , my head to a nut-shell , thou hast either been breathing thy girles at some prohibited lecture ; or getting hands against the act for uniformity . go to , speak truth , what made you and your ladies so early abroad this morning ? ( for i saw ye at the back-gate as soon as ye could well find the way to it ) zeal . suppose i should tell ye , that we went to a religious meeting . conf. then would i tell you again that 't is well your wife is my kinswoman . ze. what 's your conceit for that ? conf. i should suspect she might be tempted else to make your head ake : for those assemblies which you call religious meetings ; what are they , but close appointments , where the men meet to cuckold authority : and the women ( if they please ) to do as much for their husbands ? without fooling , i look upon conventicling , but as a graver kind of catter-wawling ; and in fine , 't is not good to wont our selves to stoln pleasures . ze. you will be bitter . conf. no no , i will not . raillery apart , your wife 's a very good lass. but where have you been in earnest ? ze. to tell you the very truth , i have been , with my wife and my daughter , to ioy mr. calamy of his enlargement . conf. bless me ! is he at liberty then ? ze. yes , he is at liberty . do ye wonder at it ? conf. no , not much . but , prethee why was he clapt up ? ze. for preaching . is not that crime enough ? conf. that 's according as the sermon is ; for so as a man may order the matter in a pulpit , i think he may with a better conscience deliver poyson in the sacrament ; for the one does but destroy the body , t'other the soul. this , poysons only the congregation ; that , the whole kingdome . ze. i sent ye his sermon last night , have ye overlookt it ? conf. yes : and i have weigh'd every syllable in 't . ze. well , and how do ye find it ? conf. only a plague-plaister , that 's made publique for the good of his majesties liege-people . find it say ye ? if ever i live to be king of utopia , i 'le hang him up that prints the fellow on 't within my dominions . zeal . and what shall become of him that preaches it , i beseech ye ? conf. perhaps i 'le spare him for his industry ; for a presbyterian that preaches sedition , do's but labour in 's calling . ze. come leave your lashing , and tell me soberly ; what hurt do you find in 't ? conf. that hurt that brought the late king to the scaffold . and ( in a word ) which will unsettle the best establisht government in the world , with a very small encouragement ; that hurt do i find in 't . ze. truly , my eyes can discover no such matter . conf. it may be you 'll see better with my spectacles . but where 's your brother-scruple ? he was not with you at mr. calamy's , i hope . ze. no , ye know hee 's of another way ; i think hee 'll call upon me here by and by ; for we are to go into the city together about business . conf. what ever the matter is , i have a strange itch to day to know your business . prethee is't a secret ? ze. 't is a secret , to you , if you don't know 't . but what if i should long as much now to know what 't is that makes you so inquisitive ? conf. i 'de save your longing ; nay , and for fear of the worst , i 'le prevent it . they say that you and your brother are gathering hands to a petition against the act for uniformity . ze. put case we were , what then ? conf. in the day that you offer that petition , will i and my friends prefer another against the act of indempnity . ze. sure ye do not take it for the same case . have you read the kings late declaration of december ? conf. yes ; and i see nothing there , but that his majesty finds himself oblig'd to preserve both alike . ze. do ye remember what he says concerning his promises from breda ? conf. oh very well ; and i would advise you as a friend not to mind him too much of them : for first , his majesty has done his part in consenting to the mature and deliberate offers of his parliament . . you have ( many of ye ) fail'd of yours in not complying with the conditions of his royal mercy . but to the point i am to speak with you about . ze. do so , what is 't ? look ye ; here 's scruple come already . conf. so much the better , for i have somewhat to say to ye both. come , scruple , i think i may thank your brother here for this visit. scrup. truly if it were thankworthy , so you might ; for i am only come to call him away about business into the city . conf. nay never talk of business into the city before dinner ; for , to my knowledge , the afternoon is time enough for your business . scrup. in good truth , we are engag'd upon an appointment . conf. i know ye are , and that 's the reason i desir'd to speak with your brother this morning . you two are to be at town-ditch this morning , if it be possible ; or however , sometime to day . is 't not so ? ze. pray'e where have you your intelligence ? conf. i have a certain familiar that tells tales out of school . come , come , resolve upon the afternoon , 't is but reprieving bishops a matter of two hours longer . ze. well , since you 'll have it so , it shall be so : but let me tell ye , your devil deceives ye ; for we have no design at all upon episcopacy . conf. y'intend to petition the parliament ; do ye not ? ze. it may be we do . conf. in good time ; and what 's the scope of your petition ? ze. that we may be left at liberty to worship god according to our consciences . conf. have you well consider'd what will be the fruit of granting that liberty ? ze. it will exalt the kings honour , establish the peace of the nation , promote all honest interests ; and satisfie all good men. conf. make that good , and ye shall have my hand to your petition . scrup. and if we do not make it good , wee 'll renounce our claim . conf. come gentlemen , there 's a fire in my study , and we have two hours good to dinner . let 's make use of our time. sect . i. liberty of conscience stated . conf. if i do not mistake ye , my masters , the thing ye contend for is a toleration . scrup. it is so . ze. and that we may not be enjoyn'd ( upon a penalty ) to do that which we think we ought not to do . conf. your pardon , my friend ; that 's not the question , i do not ask ye what ye would not have , but what ye would : not what y' are against , but what y' are for. i know well enough that the act for uniformity displeases ye ; but i would fain know when that 's gon , what will please ye , that we may not destroy a law to no purpose . ze. allow us but a freedome to worship god , according to the rule of his own word , and that freedom shall content us . scrup. in short , the thing we desire is liberty of conscience . conf. liberty of conscience ? what mortal can pretend to take it from ye ? ze. do's not the act for uniformity debar us of it ? conf. not at all ; your actions indeed are limited , but your thoughts are free ; what do's this or that garment , or gesture concern the conscience ? ze. but if i believe it unlawfull to worship thus , or so : whatsoever is not of faith , is sin : conf. at this rate , for ought that i know , ye may believe it unlawfull to worship at all : for ye may as well except to every mode which is not commanded , as to that which is. ( but we are upon the merits of the cause , before we state the question . ) liberty of conscience ( according to my books ) is a liberty of iudging , not of acting ; but i perceive the liberty which you claym , is a liberty of practice . ze. no matter for the word , so long as we agree upon the meaning . conf. nay , by your favour , zeal , we are not as yet agreed upon either ; for that which you seem to ask in one sense , you resolve to take in another : that is , ye ask leave to think what ye will , and ye take leave to do what ye will ; so that the liberty you demand , is rather matter of state , then of religion : and to ask , that ye may govern your selves by your own consciences , is the same thing with asking to be no longer govern'd by the kings laws . scrup. cannot liberty of conscience then consist with civil obedience ? conf. yes , liberty of conscience may , but not liberty of action ; if liberty of conscience will content ye , disclaim liberty of practice ; but if ye must needs have liberty of practice , speak out , and do not call it liberty of conscience . scrup. give it what name you please ; the liberty i desire , is a liberty towards god in matters of religion ▪ conf. but what do ye mean by those matters of religion ? zeal . whatsoever has the honour of god for it's direct and immediate end , under which head , may be comprised [ ceremonies properly sacred and significant by humane institution ] [ religious mystical habits ] [ canonical subscription , ] [ holy-dayes ] — and in fine , such inventions of worship as are not warranted by gods word . conf. so that upon the whole matter , the liberty you demand , is a liberty of practice , in such matters of religion , as have the honour of god for their direct and immediate end. all which , in one word , amounts to a toleration , and so much for the state of the question . sect . ii. universal toleration unlawfull . conf. if a toleration you would have , it must be either absolute , and generall , or limited and partial . scrup. let it be generall then , for doubtless if a man be oblig'd to worship , it supposes him free to do 't in such manner as he finds himself bound to do 't . conf. this argument of yours takes in pagans , as well as christians , for they have consciences as well as wee , and they are convinc'd that there is a god , and that that god ought to be worship'd ; so that to grant a general license , is to tolerate paganisme . zeal . but paganisme is not within the pale of the question . conf. why then no more is conscience ; for if you exclude pagans , upon what accompt is 't ? they perswade themselves they are in the right , you think them in the wrong , and because of the error of their way , deny them the exercise of their opinions ; so that your exception lyes to the error , not to the conscience . scrup. but their consciences are erroneous . conf. they are so , if you may be iudges of them , and so are yours too , when you come to be iudg'd by us. now tell me , what right have you to be judges in your own case , any more then they in theirs ? ze. we have a law to judge our selves by . conf. and , they , even without a law , do by nature the things contained in the law , and are a law to themselves : but to look nearer home , 't is it seems among christians only , that you would have a generall toleration ; and that in my opinion helps ye not much ; for to uphold your claim , you must either maintain that there are no erroneous consciences among christians , or that errour of conscience is no sin , or else that sin may be tolerated . scrup. that there are erroneous consciences , and that sin is not to be tolerated , i grant ye ; but i do not take every error of conscience to be a sin ( understand me , of consciences labouring under an invincible ignorance . ) conf. 't is very true , the formality of sin is the obliquity of the will ; but sin , materially consider'd , is the transgression of the divine law : and conscience it self becomes sinfull , when it dictates against that law. scrup. can there be any sin without consent ? or any consent without knowledge ? or any knowledge in a case of invincible ignorance ? the transgression of the law implies the knowledge of it , or at least the possibility of knowing it ; without which , it has not the nature of a law , as to mee . [ the conditions requisite to a rule , are these , it must be certain ; and it must be known : if it be not certain , 't is no rule ; if it be not known , 't is no rule to us. ] i had not known sin ( sayes the apostle ) but by the law ; and in another place , [ where there is no law , there is no transgression : ] from whence the deduction is clear , that sin is not barely the transgression of a law , but the transgression of a known law ; the inconformity of the will to the understanding . conf. the perversness of the will being a sin ▪ does not hinder the enormity of the judgment to be so too , [ untill the law ( says your own st. paul ) sin was in the world , but sin is not imputed when there is no law. ] briefly ; the word of god is the rule of truth , and all disproportion to that rule is errour ; god's revealed will is the measure of righteousness , and all disproportion to that measure is sin . now the question is not , whether imputed or not , but whether a sin or no ? and you cannot make errour of conscience to be no sin , without making the word of god to be no rule . scrup. i do not deny , but it is a fin as to the law ; but it is none as to the person : it is none constructively , with him that accepts the will for the deed. conf. can you imagine , that any condition in the delinquent can operate upon the force , and equity of the law ? because god spares the offender , shall man therefore tolerate the offence ? david was pronounc'd a man after god's own heart ; shall authority therefore grant a license to murther and adultery ? scrup. what 's david's case to ours ? you instance in sins of presumption , and the question is touching sins of ignorance . conf. your patience , i beseech you : it may be ignorance in him that commits the sin , and yet presumption in him that suffers it : you cannot comprehend it , perhaps ; but the magistrate does ; and wherein you doubt , authority is certain : i could lead you now by a thred , from the toleration of all opinions , to the toleration of all practices ; and shew you the execrable effects of giving way to the impulses of deluded conscience ; but what needs that , when two words will dispatch this controversie ? in pleading for all opinions , you plead for all heresies , and for the establishment of wickedness by a law. do ye think such a toleration as this , either fit for you to ask , or for authority to grant ? ze. but is it not pity , ( considering our duty is obedience , and not wisedom ) that a good man should be punished for not being a wise man ? conf. and do not you think we should have fine work , if a state were bound to make no provision against crafty knaves , for fear of dis-obliging honest fools : you 'l set no trapps for foxes , for fear of catching your lambs ; and hunt no wolves for fear some of your currs should stumble upon a sheep . in short , the honest will obey good laws , and let not the unwise pretend to mend them . as to the sparing of the man , ( even where 't were impious to give quarter to the opinion ) i wish it could be done ; but how shall we separate the errour from the person ; so as to make a general law take notice of it ? to tolerate both were irreligious , and it seems to mee impossible to sever them . if you your self now can either prove the former to be lawfull , ( that is , to do evil , that good may come of it ) or the latter to be practicable , i 'le agree with you for a general toleration : if otherwise , i hope you 'l joyn with me , against it . ze. the truth is , i am not yet resolv'd to burn for this opinion ; but what do ye think of a limited , or partial toleration ? conf. i fear , you 'l find that , as much too narrow for your conscience , as the other is too wide : but wee 'l try't however . sect . iii. limited toleration does not answer liberty of conscience . conf. wee are already agreed , that a toleration of all opinions , is a toleration of all wickedness , and consequently unlawfull . come now to your limited , or partial toleration , which i take to be a legal grant of freedom , or immunity , to such or such a sect , or way , and to no other . will a toleration of this latitude content ye ? scrup. i see no other choyce . conf. would ye have it granted in favour of the conscience that desires it , or in allowance of the tolerated opinion ? scrup. with an eye to both ; that nothing , which is grievous may be impos'd on the one hand , nor any thing which is unlawfull tolerated on the other . conf. but what if the subject shall accompt that imposition grievous which the magistrate thinks necessary ? or that liberty conscientious which the magistrate believes unlawful ? whether of the two shall over-rule ? if the subject , then is the magistrate oblig'd to tolerate whatsoever the subject shall think himself oblig'd to doe ; and this carries us back into a general toleration ; if the magistrate over-rule , ( as certainly 't is his right , for no man can be properly said to suffer , what he has not a power to hinder ) your plea of conscience , is out of doors . scrup. by your leave , conformity ; i would not have either of them govern absolutely and severally in the case ▪ for if the magistrate be left to himself , he may either set up a false religion , or suppress the right , at pleasure ; and the people by themselves , may as well mistake as the magistrate : whereas together , the one looks to the other . but tell me , i beseech ye , would you have no toleration at all ? conf. upon my word , scruple ; no man is a greater friend to toleration then i am , if i could but hit upon such a measure as agrees with piety , and political convenience : with such a model as would probably answer the end you seem to aim at : but to dissolve a solemn law for the satisfaction of some particulars , and at last to leave the people more unsatisfi'd then ye found them , were a course ( i think ) not very suitable to the ordinary method either of government , or of discretion ; and that i fear would be the event of satisfying your desires in this particular . pray'e try your skill , if you can contrive it otherwise , and say what 't is would please ye . ze. an exemption from the lash of the act of uniformity . conf. well! what 's your quarrel to 't ? ze. i think it a great cruelty to confine a multitude of differing iudgments to the same rule , and to punish a conscientious people for those disagreements which they can neither reconcile , nor relinquish . conf. why do ye then press that cruelty your selves , which you condemn in others . for your limited toleration is an act of uniformity to those that are excluded . they that are taken in will possibly be well enough pleased ; but you never think of those that are left out : whereas you are to consider that they that are out , have consciences as well as those that are in ; and those that are in , have no more priviledge , then they that are out . so that , upon a fair view of the matter , you can neither admit all , nor leave out any , without a check either to your conscience or to your argument . for put case , the king should grant ye a limited toleration ; would that quiet ye ? ze. yes , beyond doubt it would . conf. imagine it then , and your self one of the rejected party . are not you as well , now , without any toleration at all ; as you will be then without the benefit of it ? scrup. to deal freely , i would not willingly be excluded . conf. and is not that every mans case as well as yours ? a limited toleration must exclude some ; and why not you , as well as another ? what prerogative have you above your fellows ? or why should not all be tolerated as well as any ? they can no more abandon their opinions , then you yours , and your waies are to them , just the same grievances ; which ( if ye may be credited ) ours are to you. scrup. but are not some opinions more tolerable then others ? do ye put no difference betwixt points fundamentally necessary , and but accidentally so ? betwixt the very basis of christianity , and the superstructure ? conf. ye persue a shadow . who shall define , which are fundamentals , and which not ? if both parties , ( according to your former hint ) there 's only a confusion of law , and subjection , without any clear , or certain result . if the diffusive body of the people , your limited dispensation , runs into an indeterminable liberty . if the supreme magistrate , your claim of conscience falls to nothing , so that , step where ye will , you 'll find no footing upon this bottom . now to the fundamentals you speak of ; bate but that grand foundation of our faith , that iesus christ is come in the flesh ; and that whosoever confesses that iesus christ is the son of god , god dwelleth in him , and hee in god. — abating ( i say ) that radical principle ( which if we disbelieve , we are no longer christians ) there 's scarce one point that has not been subjected to a controversie . in a word , the reason of your proposal requires either an universal toleration , or none at all : unless you can find out an expedient to oblige all by gratifying some . i do not press this , as an utter enemy to all indulgence ; but i would not have it extorted by importunity and struggling ; nor granted in such a manner as to look liker a composition then a favour . if you should ask me indeed whether a prince , upon special grace , and meer motion , may not grant a toleration of some certain opinions ; 't is past dispute , he may ; but the same freedome granted upon a popular claim , is quite another thing , and neither safe , nor lawful . scrup. pray'e make me understand the difference . conf. 't is only this ; if it be the subject's due , 't is none of the king 's : so that the people are supreme , the one way , and the prince the other . now whether it be either safe for a prince to submit his regality to the claim of the people ; or lawful for him , to devest himself of that authority , wherewith god has entrusted him ; lay this under your pillow , and advise upon 't . sect . iv. the non-conformists plea for toleration upon reason of state. conf. since you are not able to make out your claim to a toleration , from the equity of the thing ; nay , since it appears ( on the contrary ) that all indulgences of that quality are totally dependent upon the will , and iudgment of the magistrate ; you should do well do leave complaining , as if the government did ye an injury , ( where effectually you have no right at all ) and rather labour fairly to possess the world , that you are a sort of people to whom the king may with honour and safety extend a bounty . the ordinary inducements to indulgence , are these three . . reason of state , wherein is propos'd either the gaining of an advantage , or the shunning of an inconvenience . . the singular merits of the party : and here , gratitude takes place . . the innocence , and modesty , of their practises and opinions : which is a strong motive ; when particulars may be oblig'd without any hazard to the publique . to begin with the first . what reason of state can you now produce that may move his majesty to grant the non-conformists a toleration ? scrup. if you had put the contrary question , y 'had pos'd me : are not the non-conformists the kings subjects ? and what 's a king without his people ? conf. the non-conformists are , by birth , and obligation , the kings subjects , but they are not so in practice , and obedience . they renounce the law , and in so doing , they cast themselves out of the pale of subjection . ze. i suppose you will not deny them however to be a numerous party , and some experience you have had likewise of their conduct , unity , and resolution ; which moves me to look upon his majesty , as ( in some measure ) under a prudential necessity of obliging so considerable an interest . conf. so far am i from admitting any political necessity of yielding , that , to my judgment , the necessity appears strong , and clear against it . ze. wee 'll waive the general question , if you please , and speak to the convenience of this iuncture . are not the non-conformists numerous ? conf. upon the poll , they are so ; and more now too , then they were when his majesty came in ; and so long as they are suffer'd , 't is to be expected they shall encrease daily . but you say , they are numerous : if they be , consequently dangerous ; the greater the number is , the greater is the hazard ; and therefore , because they are many already , and will be more , if they be suffer'd , they are not to be tolerated . ze. but will not people be much more peaceable , when they are oblig'd , than when they are persecuted ? conf. believe me , matters are at an ill pass , when the prince lies at the mercy of the people ; and certainly the multitude will be much quieter without a power to do mischief , then with it . but why do ye say , persecuted ? they persecute the law , and then you cry the law persecutes them. i would you 'd deal frankly with me : what is ( really ) your opinion of the honesty of your party ? ze. i do seriously believe the non-conformists to be an honest , conscientious sort of people . conf. but they must be knaves to make your argument good : for , if they be honest , they 'll be quiet without a toleration . if they be dishonest , they 'll be dangerous with it . consider again ; if there be any hazard , wherein does it consist ? not in the multitude , but in the confoederacy . a million of men without agreement , are but as one single person . now they must consult , before they can agree ; and they must meet before they can consult ▪ so that , barely to hinder the assembling of these multitudes , defeats the danger of them . whereas , on the other side , to permit separate meetings , is to tolerate a combination . ze. right ; but those meetings and consultations are pass'd already ; for sure the non-conformists have been long enough acquainted to understand one another . conf. so much the more need to look after them ; and the less cause to tolerate them : and for their agreement in a general disaffection ; that signifies little , without the means of joyning in a particular plot. again ; as 't is an advantage on the one side , that the faction know one another ; so is it an equal advantage on the other side , that the king knows the faction : which renders his majesty at any time master of it ; when his royal wisdome shall direct him to suppress the heads of it . ze. mistake me not . i do not say 't is likely they will be troublesome , in respect of their judgments ; but that it is possible for them to be so , in regard of their number . conf. he that fears all possibilities , lives in a cold sweat. but i beseech ye , whether do you take to be the greater number ? those that singly wish to be discharg'd from the act of uniformity ; or those that would have no law at all ? those that are troubled because they may not worship according to their phansie ; or those that are displeas'd because they cannot live and rule , according to their appetite ? the traytor would have one law discharg'd ; the schismatique another ; the idolater a third ; the sacrilegious person a fourth ; the drunkard a fifth ; the conventicler a sixt ; the prophane swearer a seventh ; the false-swearer an eighth ; the murtherer a ninth ; the seducer a tenth : and in fine ; not one of a thousand , but had rather command , then obey . shall the king therefore dissolve the law , because there are so many criminals ? that were to raise an argument against authority , from the very reason of its constitution . shall the people be left to do what they list , because a great many of them , would do what they should not ? shall his majesty give up his government , for fear of some millions possibly in his dominions , that had rather be kings than subjects . less forcible , beyond question , is the necessity of the kings granting a toleration , than that of renouncing his sovereignty ; for , doubtless , where there 's one man that is truly scrupulous , there are a hundred avaritious , ambitious , and , in fine , irreligious persons . zeal . i think we may better decide this question from experiment , and matter of fact , than by speculative reasonings . look back to the beginning of the late warr , and tell me ; do not you believe that there are more non-conformists now , then there were then ? conf. yes , i do verily believe that there are three , now , for one , then. ze. why then , the odds are three to one against you : for the third part of this number , was then the predominant interest of the nation . conf. i could allow you even treble that number too , and the reason of my assertion would yet bear it , upon the greater odds of strength betwixt the faction then , and now . as for instance : at the beginning of the late warr , they were masters of the tower , the navy ; of all considerable towns , forts , and magazines : they had a great part of the crown , and church-revenues under their command , and london at their beck ; beside the plunder of malignants , and the bountiful contributions of the well-affected . scotland was already confoederate with them , in one rebellion ; and they had made sure of another in ireland , ( by persecuting , and with-holding the only person capable to keep them quiet : the earl of strafford ) which broyle they further assisted , by manifest opposals of his majesty's resolutions to suppress it . [ see the kings speech of decem . . , and the following petition concerning the same ] finally ; for the better countenance of their usurpations , they had drawn down the representative of the people into a close-committee , and the arbitrary votes of this seditious conventicle , passed with the vulgar , for the acts of a regular , and complete authority . this was the condition of the non-conformists power formerly , but ( blessed be god ) they are not at present so formidable . the three kingdomes are now at peace ; and we have a parliament that 's no friend to the faction . the king is possest of a considerable guard , which his royal father wanted : and the sword is in the wrong hand for their business . his majesty is master likewise of his rights , both of power , and revenue ; and his capital-city stands right in its obedience . to all which may be added , that although several particulars of the party are as rich , as pillage and pardon can make them ; yet they want a common stock to carry on a common cause : the thimbles , and the bodkins fail ; and the comfortable in-comes of [ a ] irish adventures ; [ b ] moneys and plate upon the propositions ; [ c ] confiscated estates ; [ d ] twentieth parts ; and [ e ] weekly assessments ; and a hundred other pecuniary stratagems ( for the ease of the subject ) are departed from them . if it be so , that these people have none of those advantages now remaining ; by virtue whereof they did so much mischief before ; what necessity can any mortal imagine of tolerating these naked , and supportless creatures , for fear of dis-obliging them ? ze. are they more naked and supportless , now , than they were before the long parliament ? does it follow that they have no power , because they do not exercise it ? certainly , if they be more in number now , than they were then , those abilities that rais'd them formerly , may secure them at . present , from being thought contemptible . conf. 't is true , before our late troubles they were as they are now ( for matter of power ) and out of that nothing they made themselves considerable : yet still i cleave to my opinion , that the same abilities will not now produce the same effects ; for the world will not be twice cousen'd with the same trick ; and as the case stands , there is as little danger from their conduct , as from their number . zeal . this is a little strange , me thinks , to grant the means , and deny the end. the two first principles of power ( men and moneys ) you have allow'd them ; and it is not for your credit to say that these people want conduct , by whom you your selves have been worsted . if you have found them considerable upon experience , do not make them so despicable in your argument . conf. have a care , friend : for the men that worsted us , were a sort of people , that voted down bishops on the wrong side of the parliament door ; that cry'd , they would have no more porters-lodge at white-hall ; and told his sacred majesty in a publique declaration [ aug. . . ] that the pretence that his person was there in danger , was a suggestion as false as the father of lies could invent — that seiz'd the tower , the navy , the kings towns , forts , magazines , friends and revenues ; that levied war against , and imprison'd his sacred person , usurp'd his soveraign authority ; embrew'd their hands in his royal bloud , and , in the very pulpit , animated and avow'd the unexampled murder . these were the men that worsted us , and these are the people which you plead for , under the mask of non-conformists . your patience yet a little further . the non-conformists are many , beyond question , ( for the whole seditious party lurks under that denomination ) but so long as they are neither in order , nor in office , they are not valuable . they are wealthy too ; but so long as that wealth lies in particular coffers , there 's not much fear of it , as to the publique . now let them be as wise as you imagine them , that policy which over-threw the late king , signifies nothing to the hazzard of this : nay more , that which was then , policy , would be now , direct folly. ze. this is but discourse : my opinion is , that if they had the same will , and purpose to do mischief which you suppose they have , they do not want conduct to their number , to make the necessity of complying with this interest , to appear evident , past contradiction . conf. now touching their conduct . they must either do the same thing over again , or steer another course : and their method is too notorious to succeed the one way , as their persons are too well known to do any good the other . scrup. i do not well understand what you mean by their method ; for wisdom , i suppose , does not confine her self to any certain and prescript manner of working ; but shapes the method to the occasion . conf. i am neither totally with you , nor against you , in this poynt : for as in the menage of publique affairs , there is much left to habitual prudence , and discretion , without need of directing every little circumstance , or tracing every line ; so are there certain general rules ; certain dispositive means , which all wise men conclude to be of absolute necessity to such certain ends. scrup. the question in hand is this ; whether the nonconformists be not an intelligent , as : well as a numerous and wealthy party ? and how far reason of state may prevail for the toleration of a sort of people in so many respects considerable ? pray speak to this. conf. if they be very wise , and very many , they had need be very honest too , there may be danger else ; for if they be not honest , 't is unsafe , and consequently imprudent to indulge them . i think , the best measure both of their honesty , and wisdom , may be taken from the rise , and menage of the late warr : wherein , i must confess , there wanted neither craft in the packing of the cards , nor conduct in the playing of them . but what if i should ask you now , who were the prime conductors in that enterprize ? if you say , the non-conformists ; then they are not honest enough to be trusted ; ( would you have the king gratifie the murtherers of his father ? ) if you say otherwise ; then 't was not their conduct that did the work , and they are not wise enough to be fear'd . in short , ( to give them their due , and no more . ) that which destroy'd us then , was the conjuncture of the most perfidious of subjects , with the most pious and charitable of princes : the king , in fine , was ruin'd by his own goodnesse . first , without the pacification at berwick , in . the rebellion had been blasted in the bud ; and secondly , his majestye's signing of the bill for the perpetual parliament , put the english in a capacity of seconding their scottish brethren . these were the two capital concessions that kill'd the royal interest ; the latter whereof , his majesty ( of ever blessed memory ) reflects upon , as [ no sin of his will , though an errour of too charitable a iudgement , ] and confesses that , [ he did not thereby intend to shut himself out of dores , as some men had then requited him. ] there was likewise a fatal concurrence of sedition and popular ignorance , to facilitate the design . alas ! the late king was oppress'd even by those that thought they fought for him , before ever they knew what they did ; and the folly of the common souldier contributed no less to the general fate , then the skill and malice of their leaders . ( beside some unhappy why-not's and mistakes in the kings armyes , which are not at all pertinent to our discourse . ) ze. admitting what you say , still it was some degree of conduct to procure those grants , and to improve those means . conf. alas ! if iudas his betraying his master with a kisse ; if the enflaming of the people by false , and scurrilous invectives against their soveraign ; — if the erecting of a prerogative conventicle by the force of tumults , and then giving it the name of a parliament ; — if the calling of god to attest the sanction of perjury and treason ; or if to engage the people by a sacramental vow to defend the king , and then hang them up for adhering to him ; — if this ( i say ) be conduct : let no man presume to dispute their title to 't . but if by conduct , you intend a course of honourable wisdom , you 'l hardly find any foot-steps of that conduct , throughout the whole transaction ▪ yet let this pass for conduct , and let the men that govern'd the design , be allow'd for politicians ; still i maintain , that this party , though endu'd with the wisdom of angels , cannot in this iuncture ; no not in this age , pretend again to be considerable . ze. that 's sooner said , then prov'd . conf. truly , i think not much ; in regard that both their wayes , and their persons are too well known , to be either suffer'd , or credited . in order to the late warr , the party had two games to play ; for they were to make an interest both with the king , and with the people , wherein their master-piece was shew'd imprevailing with both king , and people , to contribute to their own undoing ; to which end , they first , acquainted themselves with his majesties dearest inclinations ; and next , with the niceties , and distresses of his government , and fortune : of which discovery they made such use , as enabled them to overturn the order both of church and state , and to perfect their long-projected reformation : for the late king 's predominant affection being piety , and compassion , and his most dangerous distress being want of money , the politicks of the faction appear'd in nothing more , than in working upon his majestye's goodness , and necessities . their practices upon the people were chiefly employ'd upon the two things , which of all others they do the least understand , and the most furiously pursue , to wit , religion and liberty ; wherein the ministers were the prime instruments , and alaham ( in the words of the excellent lord brook ) was their instructor . preach you with fiery tongue , distinguish might ; tyrants from kings , duties in question bring 'twixt god and man ; where power infinite compar'd , makes finite power a scornfull thing . safely so craft may with the truth give light , to iudge of crowns without enammelling ; and bring contempt upon the monarchs state ; where straight unhallowed power hath peoples hate . glaunce at prerogatives indefinite , tax customs , warrs , and lawes all gathering ; censure kings faults , their spies , and favourites , holiness hath a priviledge to sting . men be not wise ; bitterness from zeal of spirit , is hardly iudg'd ; the envy of a king makes people like reproof of majesty . where god seems great in priests audacity — and when mens minds thus tun'd and tempted are to change , with arguments 'gainst present times , then hope awakes , and man's ambition climes . this was the artifice , by which the faction skrew'd themselves formerly into an interest ; but alas , what would the same thing over again avail them now ? when his majesty ha's but to look behind him upon the sad fate of his royal father , to secure himself against all possibility of another imposture . and for the multitude , they must be worse than brutes , in case of any new attempt , ever to engage against this king , upon any man's credit , that had his hand in the death of the last ; so that we are both wiser and surer at present , then we were twenty years agoe , upon a double accompt ; first , the calamityes of the last warr are still fresh in our remembrance , and i do not find the people generally so sanctifi'd by their . experience , but they had rather lye still for their real profit , then fight it over again for the sound of religion . secondly , we are pre-acquainted with the most likely instruments and pretences of raising any new troubles . as for the unity ye boast of , 't is very true ; that the non-conformists agreed against the publique , till they found it impossible for them any longer to agree among themselves ; and there 's the utmost of their unity . their resolution indeed i cannot deny but it comes up to that in th' epigram , that , he that dares be damn'd , dares more than fight . scrup. wee shall do our cause an injury to press too farr upon reason of state in matter of religion . conf. indeed , i think you 'l find it a hard task , to make it out to any man of reason , that the kingdom will be either the better for granting you a toleration , or the worse for refusing it : but 't is to be hop'd that your merits will plead better for you then your politicks . sect . v. the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the merits of the party . conf. what ha's your party ( gentlemen ) merited from the publique , that an exception to a general rule , should be granted in your favour ? name your services . ze. wee ventur'd all to save the life of the late king. conf. and yet ye ventur'd more to take it away : for , ye did but talk for the one , and ye fought for the other . ze. we ever abominated the thought of murthering him . conf. you should have abominated the money too , for which ye sold him . scrup. did wee sell him ? conf. no , you were the purchasers . ze. did not the presbyterians vote his majesties concessions a ground for a treaty ? conf. yes : but withall they held him up to conditions worse than death it self ; and , in short , they deliver'd him up , when they might have preserv'd him ; and they stickled for him , when they knew they could do him no good. ze. what design could they have in that ? conf. they might have the same design in - . which they had in - . for ought that i know . to make a party by 't ; and set up a presbyterian interest in the kings name . ze. all the world knowes , that we were so much afflicted for his sacred majesties distress , that we had many solemn dayes of humiliation for it . conf. so ye had for his successes , for fear he should get the better of ye ; and you had your dayes of thanksgiving too , for his dysasters . ze. what do ye think of preston-fight ? was that a iuggle too ? conf. i think ye should do well to let that action sleep , for the honour of the kirk : for though the cavaliers found it great earnest , 't is shrewdly suspected that there was foul play among the brethren . ze. pray'e let mee ask you one question : who brought in this king ? conf. they that would not suffer . you to keep him out : that party that by a restless , and incessant loyalty , hinder'd your establishments . ze. and what do ye think of the sccluded members ? conf. i think , a new choyce would have done the kings business every jot as well ; and matters were then at that pass , that one of the two was unavoydable . in fine , 't is allow'd at all hands , that the prime single instrument of his majestyes restauration was the duke of albemarle . but if you come to partyes , the very fact appears against ye : for , though all possible industry was employ'd to make the next choyce totally presbyterian , by disabling all such persons , and their sons , as ( in effect ) had serv'd the king since - . without manifesting their repentance for it since ; yet , so strong was the general vote of the people , for the kings true interest , and against all factions , that all endeavour was too little to leaven the next convention , as was design'd . if ye have no more to say for the merits of your party , wee 'l pass on to the merits of your cause : ze. do so , and wee 'l give you the hearing . sect . vi. the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the innocence of their practices and opinions . conf. concerning the innocency of your practices and opinions , must be our next enquiry ; and how farr your actions and principles comport with the duties of society , and with the ends of government . if authority find them regular and modest , it will be a fair motive to his majesty to grant ye an indulgence , upon so fair a presumption that you will not abuse it . ze. and we shall willingly cast our selves upon that tryal . conf. go to then . but i must ask ye some untoward questions by the way . what 's your opinion ( gentlemen ) of the warr rais'd in — . was it a rebellion , or no ? ze. 't is a point we dare not meddle with . conf. nay , then you falter ; for if you thought it one , you 'ld answer me ; and if ye think it none , you 'd think the same thing , over again , to be none too . suffice it , that in fact there was a warr , and such a warr as no honest english man can reflect upon , but with grief , shame , horrour , and indignation : can ye tell me what was the ground of the quarrel ? ze. i think you were in the right your self , when ye said , it was religion and liberty . conf. i suppose , i shall not need to tell ye the event of it ; but of which side were the tender consciences , for the king , or against him ? ze. we were ever for the king : witness our petitions , declarations , and in a most signal manner , our solemn league and covenant . conf. now i thought ye had been against him , because ye seiz'd his revenues , levy'd a war , hunted and imprison'd his person , and at last took away his life . but the truth on 't is , ye were both : ye were for him in your words , and against him in your actions . ze. there were many in our party that lov'd the king as well as any of you that were about him. conf. that is , according to your covenant : and i do not think but that your party loves this king just as they did the last . scrup. i would his majesty had no worse enemies . conf. and i say , god send him better friends . you love the bishops too i hope , do ye not ? scrup. truly when they are out of their fooleries , i have no quarrel to the men. ze. and to deal plainly , i am not yet convinc'd of their lordships prerogative ; nor that there 's any inherent holiness in a cope or a surplice . but why do you couple the crown and the miter so , as if no man could be a good subject , that 's disaffected to prelacy . conf. to be free with ye , that 's my opinion , and i 'm the stiffer in 't , because i think you can hardly shew me , any one non-conformist , that upon a voluntary and clear accompt ever struck stroke for the king ; nor any true son of the episcopal order of the church , that ever bore arms against him. ze. what will you forfeit if i shew you hundreds ? conf. either my head , or the cause , which you please . ze. what do ye think of the papists then ▪ ( but it may be you and they are all one , and so you w'ont reckon them for non-conformists ) conf. to say the truth , we were all one in loyalty to his majesty , and to your eternal reproach be it spoken , [ that the papists should have a greater sense of their allegeance than many protestant professors ] ze. nay i believe a machiavellian jesuit shall ha'your good word , sooner then a conscientious puritan . conf. truly no ; for a presbyterian papist , and a presbyterian puritan are both alike to mee ; and i confess , i had rather be preserv'd by a man of another religion , than ha' my throat out by one of my own. but , my good brother of the consistory , no slipping your neck out of the col ar : i was speaking of the non-conformists ; by which term is properly meant , such persons as refuse to obey the orders of the church , whereof they acknowledge themselves to be members ; so that the point in debate , has no coherence at all with your digression . to mind you of it , the question 's this : whether or no the practises of the non-conformists have been such , as may probably dispose his majesty towards the granting of a toleration . and now to hold you to the question [ by whom was the war in scotland begun ? ] by the non-conformists . ze. by whom i beseech ye was the rebellion in ireland begun ? conf. by the presbyterian papists , but it was provok'd , and pre-dispos'd by the presbyterian puritans ; [ so that , next to the sin of those , who begun that rebellion , theirs must needs be , who either hindred the speedy suppressing of it , by domestique dissentions , or diverted the aids , or exasperated the rebels , to the most desperate resolutions and actions , by threatning all extremities , not only to the known heads and chief incendiaries ; but even to the whole community of that nation , resolving to destroy root and branch , men , women , and children ; without any regard to those usual pleas for mercy , which conquerours , not wholly barbarous , are wont to hear from their own breasts , in behalf of those , whose oppressive fears , rather than their malice , engag'd them ; or whose imbecillity for sex and age was such , as they could neither lift up a hand against them , nor distinguish between their right hand and their left . ] these are the words of that evangelical prince , that dy'd a martyr for that religion , and liberty , which he was calumniated to have betray'd . by whom i beseech ye , was he persecuted , divested of all his regalities , assaulted , immur'd , depos'd , and murder'd , but by your party , gentlemen ? by whom , was episcopacy destroy'd , root and branch ; the law trampled upon ; our churches prophan'd ; monarchy subverted ; the free-born people of england pillag'd , and enslav'd ; the nation engag'd in bloud and beggery ; but by the non-conformists ? ze. why do ye charge those exorbitancies upon the whole party , that were the crimes only of some particular and ambitious men ? do you believe , that it should ever have gone so far , if we two could have hinder'd it ? conf. no , indeed do i not ; and i do believe that there were thousands in the party that intended it as little as your selves . now , me thinks , this experience should deterre ye , from the project you are at this instant upon ; especially considering that you are upon the very steps that led to the late rebellion . the method , was petitioning ; the argument , was liberty of conscience ; and the pretext , religion ▪ popery , was the bug-bear ; and the multitude , were the umpires of the controversie . ▪ nay , you have the very same persons to lead ye on ; and they , the very same matter to work upon . bethink your selves ; ye meant no hurt ( ye say ) to the last king , and yet ye ruin'd him : ye may perchance intend as little harm to this king , and yet do him as much . not that the matter is in your power ; but i would not have it in your will , and endeavour . but enough is said touching the innocency of your practices : that of your opinions , follows ; and i am mistaken , if your principles prove not altogether as intolerable as your practices ( by intolerable , i mean , inconsistent with the publique peace ) ze. sure you 'll send me to my catechism again . conf. nay , marque me ; i will make it so clear to ye , that you your selves shall confess , that sedition flowes as naturally from your ordinary , and receiv'd opinions , as corrupt waters from a poyson'd fountain ; and not as an accident neither , attendant upon your separation , but as a form'd and excogitated design , wrapt up , and coucht in the very mystery of your profession . ze. ' wou'd you 'd be pleas'd to unvail the mystery you speak of . conf. in obedience , i 'll endeavour it . the most sacred of all bonds , is that of government , next to that of religion ; and the reverence which we owe to humane authority , is only inferiour to that which we owe to god himself . yet , such is the deprav'd state of nature , that every man is touch'd with an ambition ( more or less ) to gain to himself some share in the command of the whole : and from hence proceed those struglings of particular persons , which we so frequently meet with in opposition to the general lawes , and ends of order and society . so soon as this private humour has emprov'd , and ripen'd it self into a design , the first maxim which appears in favour of it , is this ; that the less obligation must give way to the greater ; as ( for instance ) reason of state must give place to matter of religion , and humane lawes to the law divine : which being duly weigh'd , what has any man more to do in order to the embroyling of a nation , but to perswade the people that this or that political law has no foundation in the word of god ; to bid them stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ has made them free : and finally to engage the name of god , and the voyce of religion in the quarrel ? ze. and do not you your self believe it better to obey god then man ? conf. yes , but i think it best of all to obey both : to obey god , for himself , in spirituals ; and man for god's sake in temporals , as he is god's commissioner . but let me proceed . are not you convinc'd , that the most likely way in the world to stir up subjects against their prince , is to proclaim the iniquity of his laws ? to tell them ( in effect ) that they 'll be damn'd , if they obey ; and ( in a word ) to make the rabble judges of their governours ? ze. well , but what 's this to us , or our opinions ? conf. i wish it were not ; but to couch the whole in a little , shew me , if you can , where ever your opinions yet gain'd footing in the world without violence , and bloud : shew me again , any one sermon or discourse ( authoris'd by a non-conformist ) from . to this instant , that presses obedience to the magistrate , unless where the faction was uppermost ; which shrew'dly intimates , that your principles are inconsistent with your duties , and that the very grounds of your government are destructive of any other . ze. make that appear if you can . conf. i will so , and i think we shall not need to travail out of his majesty's dominions to prove it . come , zeal ; you 're of the classical way ; and you , scruple , of the independent ; produce your doctors ; ( but let them be the pillars of your cause ) such persons , as upon whose judgment , and integrity , you 'll venture the sum of the dispute . ze. soft and fair , i beseech ye ; what is 't you undertake to do ? conf. i do undertake to prove that the opinions of the non-conformists , ( to say no worse ) will very hardly admit a toleration : and , now , by whom will ye be try'd ? ze. what do ye think of rutherford ? conf. i suppose you mean the divinity-professour of st. andrews . ( iohn goodwin , i remember , calls him , the chariot of presbytery , and the horsemen thereof ) in truth you have pitch'd upon the atlas of your cause . but hear the rabbi in his own words , [ a ] the power of the - king is but fiduciary . [ b ] the soveraign power is eminently , fontal●ter , originally , and radically in the people . [ c ] the king is in dignity inferiour to the people . [ d ] there is a court of necessity , no less than a court of iustice , and the fundamental laws must then speak ; and it is with the people , in this extremity , as if they had no ruler . ze. well : but rutherford is but one man , i believe you 'll find gillespy of another opinion . conf. assure your self , friend mine , they all sing the same song [ e ] [ let not the pretence of peace and unity cool your fervour , or make you spare to oppose your selves unto these idle and idolized ceremonies , against which we dispute ] for [ f ] whensoever you may omit that which princes enjoyn , without violating the law of charity , you are not holden to obey them , for the majesty of princely authority . are not these sons of zeal worthy of encouragement , think ye ? you 'll say perhaps , gillespy is but one man neither . come , come , i could shew ye hundreds of them ; and if you 'll but read spottswood's history of the church of scotland , and his late majesty's large declaration , printed in . ye shall need go no further for satisfaction . to pass over the desperate opinions and contrivances of particulars ; as willock , knox , melvil , gibson , &c. let us look a little into their more solemn actions , and read the temper of the kirk in their general assemblies . . an assembly is independant , either from king or parliament in matters ecclesiastical . . an assembly may abrogate an act of parliament , if it any way reflect upon the business of the church . . it is lawful for subjects to make a covenant and combination without the king , and to enter into a bond of mutual defence against him. . the major part of the kingdome ( especially being met in a representative assembly ) may do any thing which they take to be conducing to the glory of god , and to the good of the church ; not only without the royal authority , but expresly against it . were 't not a thousand pitties now , to refuse this tender sort of christians a toleration ? ze. nay ; in good truth , i never lik't the extreme rigour of the scottish discipline . conf. and yet 't was that you leagu'd and covenanted to make your pattern ; but where do you expect to mend your self , under that form of government ? ze. truly , i take our english divines of that iudgment to be very pious , moderate persons . conf. never a barrel better herring ; that is , if they come once to dip into the controversie . ze. do not you take mr. — for a very sober well-weigh'd person ? conf. take you the measure of him , from his own hand . [ if a people bound by oath shall dispossess their prince , and chuse , and covenant with another ; they may be oblig'd by the latter , notwithstanding their former covenant . ] the real soveraignty among us , was , in king , lords and commons ; and if the king raise war against such a parliament , in that case , the king may not only be resisted , but ceaseth to be a king. hear now the file-leader of smectymnuus . [ the quection in england , is whether christ or antichrist shall be lord , or king : go on therefore couragiously : never can ye lay out your bloud in such a quarrel ; christ shed all his bloud to save you from hell , venture all yours to set him upon his throne . ( that is to say , down with episcopacy , and up with presbytery ) this is the language of one of your seraphique doctors ; and the sermon both preach'd by command , and printed by order . take notice of his auditory too : no less then the two houses , general , lord-mayor , assembly , and scotch commissioners , ian. . . scrup. you will not deny mr. john goodwyn ( i hope ) to be a reverend divine . conf. at the rate of your divinity , indeed i cannot deny it , touching the righteousness of the sentence passed upon the king ; doubtless ( says he ) never was there any person under heaven sentenc'd with death upon more equitable , and just grounds , in respect of guilt and demerit . mr. ienkins is of the same opinion , and so is parker , milton ; and , in fine , the whole tribe of medling non-conformists are of the same leven . now , to shew ye that this agreement comes not by chance , you are to observe , that whatsoever is first expos'd and blown abroad ( by the hirelings of the faction ) from the press , and pulpit , is still seconded ( at least , if the people relish it ) with the approbation of the counsel : so that the main use of sermons , and pamphlets , is only to dispose the multitude for votes , and ordinances . if you doubt this ; do but compare the doctrines of the one , with the practices of the other ; and you must be blind , not to discern that they act by consent , and intelligence . in case of false-worship ( says the pulpit ) and ( says the press ) in case of tyranny , defensive arms are lawful . if the people swallow this ; the next news ye hear , is a vote for putting that position in practice . resolved upon the question that the king ( seduced by wicked counsel ) intends to make war , &c. [ may . . ] resolved upon the question , that an army shall be forthwith raised , &c. [ iuly . . ze. will ye make the parliament then , and the synod , confederate with the rabble ? conf. tush , tush ; turbam , tam chlamydatos , quàm coronam voco . i speak of a faction , not of an anthority ; i do not meddle with parliaments : yet since you have such a kindness for the very names these people acted under , let me offer ye a word or two to consider upon , touching that thing , which you call a synod . first , the men were neither legally conven'd , nor did they act in the name of all the clergy of england : so that no matter what they did , as to the validity of any thing they could pretend to do . secondly , what was their employment , but to advise upon the cleanliest way of shifting the government , and to do as much for the bishops , as the house did for his majesty ? will ye have the truth on 't ? they clear'd their conscience abundantly to both. first ; in their letter to reformed churches abroad , they charge the king as the patron of the irish rebellion [ pa. . ] and , in short , throughout the whole tenor of it as the most insupportable tyrant in nature . secondly , let that ( not only unchristian but inhumane ) collection of white 's scandalous ministers bear witness against them. wherein , without any respect either to truth , or modesty , they have expos'd so many reverend names to infamy , and dishonour , for the better colour of their own wickedness in robbing them of their livings . i have here laid before you , the merits , practices , and opinions of the party you plead for . if i have told ye truth , think on 't ; if otherwise , disprove it . ze. i will not deny , but ill things have been done : shall all therefore be condemn'd , for the faults of some ? conf. and i will not deny neither , but there are good people in the mixture ; shall all therefore be indulg'd for the honesty of some ? try your skill , my masters ; and if you can contrive such an expedient , as may relieve particulars , without hazzard , or dammage to the whole , ye shall have my vote for such a toleration . but before ye propound it , give me leave to offer ye such other reasons of my own , against it , as have not been yet touch'd upon , and then you are at liberty to speak to all at once . sect . vii . toleration , causes confusion both in church and state. conf. gentlemen , to come quick to the business ; my exceptions to your proposal of toleration , shall be reduc'd to four heads : my first exception arises from the very nature of the thing it self ; my second , from this iuncture of time wherein it is desired ; my third , from the consideration of the partyes that desire it ; and my last exception , proceeds from the reverence i bear to the authority that is to grant it . now , if you please , wee 'l begin with the first , and pass to the rest in order . my first argument against toleration , is this : it is ( in those that press it ) a tacit condemnation of an establisht law , and not without some reflection upon the supreme authority it self . if there was reason for the making of it , there is yet more for the observing of it ; by how much an universal obedience is more profitable to the publique , than any particular constitution . scrup. it would be well , if you would bring all people to the same mind , before ye force them to the same rule . conf. but it would be ill if you should admit of no rule at all , till you had found out one , that all the world should be pleas'd with . scrup. we do not ask the vacating of a law , but the relaxing of it . conf. why then , you ask a worse thing ; for it were much better for the publique , utterly to vacate a good law , then to suffer the withdrawing of that reverence which is due even to a bad one . if the reason of such or such a law be gone , repeal the law ; but to let the obligation fall , and the law stand , is , not only to introduce , but to proclaim a disorder in the government . the law , in fine , is , an act of publique , and impartial justice , not made for this , or that particular , but for a common good. my second exception to tolcration , is , because it implyes a kind of assent ( let me not say submission ) both to the equity of the subjects complaint , and to the reason of the tolerated opinion , which , in some degree , seems to authorise a separation . now let it be once admitted , that any one law may be question'd by the multitude ; the consequence reaches to all the rest : let it be admitted , either , that any one sort of people may be allowed to challenge any one law , all other opinions have the same right of compleyning . scrup. but we do not question either the prudence of the law-makers , or the general equity of the constitution ; only where god has not given us consciences suitable to the rule , we do humbly begg of his majesty to bestow upon us a rule that may comply with our consciences . conf. would you have a law made that shall comply with all consciences ? ye demand an impossibility . god himself never made a law that pleased all people . oh! but the imposition under a penalty troubles ye . take a-away the sanction , and what signifies the law ? well , but you would be exempt i perceive from the general obligation ; so would every man else , and then there 's no law at all : in short , ye cannot say what ye would have . would ye have a particular indulgence ? where 's the equity of it as to those that are excluded ? will ye have it generall ? where 's the conscience of it , when all heresies are entertain'd . you should consider , that lawes are fram'd with a regard to the community ; and they ought to stand firm and inexorable : if once they come to hearken to particular clamours , and to side with particular interests , the reverence of government is shaken . ze. you have speculated here some airy inconveniences ; but where 's the real hazard of receding from that inexorable strictness ? ( as you call it . ) conf. first , the magistrate makes himself of a party with those that he tolerates , against those that he rejects , which drawes an envy upon the government . secondly , the tolerated party becomes a sanctuary for all the seditious persons in the kingdom . it was well said of one ( whom i esteem more for his wit than his honesty ) speaking of a thin house of commons ; it looks ( says he ) like a parish church that borders upon a conventicle . and the very truth of it is , a schismatical lecturer , is as bad as a rosted dogg in a dove-house , he tolls away all the pigeons i' th countrey . not that the people throng to him for the excellency of the man , or of the way , but they meet to proclaim themselves masters of the law , and to count how many thousand souls there are , even in this sinfull nation , that will not bow the knee to baal . let them go on , and within a while , the king perhaps shall sue to them , for the same toleration they now begg from him , and go without it ; that is , unless his majesty has better luck then his father ( which god send him , for he has several of the very same persons to deal withall . ) another objection may be this ; if there be any reason for granting a toleration , 't is probable the reason will be stronger for continuing it ; so that , in time , the people shall challenge that as a right , which they now only demand as a favour ; and the next motion is into a popular reformation . let me add to what i have said , that a toleration does not only evirtuate the law , but it naturally produces a total dissolution of ecclesiastical order , and consequently begets a confusion both in church and state. ze. you speak as if there were no such thing as a toleration in nature . conf. of that in place convenient . sect . viii . the danger of toleration in this iuncture . conf. i need not tell ye ( gentlemen ) that i am no great friend to toleration at any time : but i must confess to ye , that at this time i like it worse then i have done at any other . scrup. when , to my thinking , there never was more need of it , nor more hope of the fruit of it , then is at this instant . are not the people ready to tumult for want of it ? conf. indeed a very proper reason why they should have it , that they may be encouraged to tumult again , for what they have a mind to next . how long do you believe that government would stand , where the multitude should take notice that their rulers are afraid of them ? are they ready to tumult ? then they are not conscientious ; and if it be not conscience that moves them , 't is sedition . scrup. i 'm very confident , an indulgence would quiet them . conf. can you remember the steps of the last warr , and be of that opinion ? what was it but that which was given to quiet the faction that enabled them to take all the rest ? to give you a fresh instance ; what could be more pious , gracious , or obliging , then his majesties late declaration , in favour of the non-conformists ? all that was possible for the king to doe , in consistence with conscience , honour , and the peace of his dominions , his majesty has there frankly assur'd them of : and what 's the effect of all ? are they one jot the quieter for 't ? no , but the worse ; for no sooner was his majesties tenderness ( in that particular ) made publique , but the generality ( even of those that had lately entred into a regular and dutifull complyance with the orders of the church ) started into a new revolt ; which demonstrates , that the true ground of their separation is not conscience , but faction , and proves sufficiently the benefit , and necessity , of a strict rule , and the hazard of a relaxation : for you see , that rather then abide the penalty of the act , they could conform ; but upon the least glimpse of an indulgence , they relapse into a schism . come , brother zeal ; your friend of — shall pin the basket. that sermon of his that you wote of , ( at least if his it be , and several impressions of it have pass'd as his , without any contradiction ) that sermon do i take to be one of the lewdest requitals of the kings mercy and goodness that ever — but no more , hee 's a son of the kirk . take him first , as a person whom his majesty has pardon'd , although a leading , and pragmatical instrument toward the ruine of his royal father . consider him secondly , as one that has been taken nibbling at sedition , since his majesty's return before now , and yet been wink'd at . thirdly , take notice of the very point of time he has chosen for his purpose . his contempt meets the kings mercy just in the face , and his majesty's arms are no sooner open to receive him , then he takes that very nick of opportunity to stabb him in . ze. and all this amplifying , and passion , for preaching , forsooth , without a licence . conf. the least thing in my thought , i assure ye ; for i speak to the dangerous scope and application of his sermon , without any concern at all whether he did well , or ill , as to the act of uniformity . ze. i will not justifie his prudence , but in my conscience the man never meant any hurt , either to this king , or to his father , i should abhorre him , if i thought he did . conf. wee 'l handle that point at leasure : but to bring what we are now upon , to a period . i look upon mr. calamy as the mouth of the party , and ye see with what a seditious confidence they own his actions , and avow his disobedience : so that from mr. calamy's single case , we are to take the measure of the main question : and now i ask ye ; whether , or no , do you hold it convenient to dispense with a law , in favour of that party , which at the same time both challenges , and defies that law , and despises that mercy ? ze. when you have made out the fact , as you have layd it , i 'le tell ye my opinion . conf. again , we are perpetually alarm'd with plotts , ye see ; now what better means then a toleration , to draw the conspirators into a body ? in truth ; to gratifie a party that thus outfaces authority , and to do it too in the very crisis of the contest , is a policy that i can't reach the bottom of . this thred might be drawn finer ; but i have something to say concerning the party , as well as the time. sect . ix . arguments against toleration , in respect of the party that desires it ; with , animadversions upon a certain pamphlet , entituled , a sermon preached at aldermanbury-church , decemb. . . &c. conf. we are now entring into a large field , gentlemen , and that we may not lose our selves , let us move orderly toward the question . your party desires a toleration , is 't not so ? scrup. it is so . conf. and what is your party , i beseech ye ? where do they dwell ? what are their names ? their opinions , &c. — for to tolerate , no body knowes whom , or what , would be a little with the largest , i think ; would it not ? scrup. truly i think it would . but to answer your queynt question ; our party is a certain number of godly and conscientious men , that desire a freedom to worship god in their own way . conf. but now you must tell me your way too . scrup. our way must be such a way as is agreeable to gods word . conf. do ye mean , that it must be expressly mark'd out , and commanded there ; or will it serve the turn , if it be only not prohibited ? ze. god forbid , that any sober christian should imagine that our saviour left his church without a rule , and certainly the lord's discipline is the best pattern , so that we are to stick to the ordinance of jesus christ , without adding or diminishing . conf. scruple , what say you to this ? for if it be so , there is but one way of worshipping , lawfull ; and consequently , but one way tolerable . scrup. in truth , i am content to venture my soul among those that serve the lord according to the light that he has given them . conf. so that i perceive 't is utterly impossible to please ye both ; for you are for several wayes , and your brother zeal but for one. how comes it now that you two , that can never agree betwixt your selves , should yet joyn in a petition against us ? scrup. we agree in this , that neither of us would be limited . conf. do not you find your self foul now upon the old rock of universal toleration again ? i would , you 'd be but so honest once , as to yield , when y' are convinc'd . can you either name those opinions , which you would have indulg'd ; or can you expect a toleration for all opinions at a venture ? scrup. provided they be not contrary to gods word . conf. but who shall be iudg of that ? if each individual , you must admit right and wrong , promiscuously , for no man will condemn himself ; if authority , you are concluded by an ecclesiastical law. have a care now of your old distinction of fundamentals , and non-fundamentals , for then your very foundation fails ye , and ye renounce the most plausible part of your plea , to wit , your title of conscience . a word now to your brother . you are for the holy discipline , zeal ; for that way , and for no other . ze. we are for that way which is prescrib'd in the word . conf. of which way , either the people or the governours must be the judges . if you say the people , the independent has the better of ye ; if the governours , you must submit to the resolutions of the church : in fine , if ye cannot say what ye would have , never complain that ye cannot obtain what ye ask ; and that 's my first reason against tolerating the non-conformists . they are a sort of people that would have they know not what . in which , particular experience bears witness against them : for , what have they done since — . but overturn'd the government , divided the spoyl , enrich'd themselves , embroyl'd every thing , and setled nothing ? and yet my masters there was no act of uniformity to hinder ye . ze. you cannot imagine sure that all these hurli-burlies and confusions , were design'd . conf. not all perhaps , for i believe ye thought to do your business with less trouble : but that the subversion of the government was design'd is plain , and certain ; and truly that it is now design'd over again , is scarce less evident : upon which special consideration , i ground my second exception . scrup. but that would be hard , to ruine so many people of god for an uncharitable surmise . conf. go to scruple ; if that be not the scope of your monstrous earnestness for a toleration , pray'e tell me what is ? if ye have no end at all in 't , 't is frivolous ; if this be your end , 't is impious ; if ye have any other end , make it appear . scrup. 't will satisfie our consciences . conf. heaven and earth shall be sooner brought together then your two consciences ; will the establishment of presbytery satisfie your conscience , or the allowance of liberty satisfie your brothers ? if it be the uniformity ye dislike ; how come ye to joyn with the directory , against the common-prayer ; with that of the assembly , against that of the church ? in short , your disagreements among your selves , are almost as notorious as your conjunction against us , and ye have given proof to the world , that it is not possible for any thing else to unite you , but a common booty ; witness the contentious papers and disputes , betwixt calamy , and burton , edwards , and goodwin , and others , not to be number'd , concerning the very point of toleration . [ the desires of the independents for a toleration ( say the london-ministers ) are unreasonable , and unequal , and many mischiefs will follow upon 't both to church and common-wealth . ] now on the other side , hear what sterry sayes , [ lord thou hast done graciously , and wonderfully , in saving us from the bloudy design of the egyptian papacy : but this last mercy by which thou hast sav'd us from the black plotts , and bloudy powers of the northern presbytery , has excell'd them all. ] rutherford tells ye that [ such opinions and practices , as make an evident schisme in a church , and set up two distinct churches , of different forms , and government , &c. cannot be tolerated . ] milton again , will have the presbyterians to be [ ministers of sedition , not ministers of the gospel . ] with what face now can those people appear to claim a toleration from the publique , whose principles are so cross , that they cannot afford it one to another ? scrup. well , but supposing these unhappy clashings among themselves , how does that prove them in confoederacy against the publique ? conf. their very agreement against the government , and in nothing else , makes it evident enough : but if you 'd have it clearer , look thorough their proceedings . in a petition that accompanyed their black remonstrance of dec. . — . you may find the points chiefly insisted upon to be these . the honour of the king , the liberty , and property of the subject ; the moderating of the bishops power ; and the removal of some unnecessary ceremonies , for the ease of tender consciences : nay , so far were they from any purpose or desire , to let loose the golden reins of discipline and government in the church , that they held it requisite to maintain a conformity throughout the kingdom , to that order , which the lawes enjoyn'd ; and took it very unkindly that the malignant party should infuse into the people , that they meant to abolish all church-government ; and leave every man to his own fancy , for the service and worship of god , absolving him of that obedience which he owes under god unto his majesty , whom they knew to be entrusted with the ecclesiastical law , as well as with the temporal , &c. — they confess indeed their intention of reducing within bounds that exorbitant power which the prelates had assum'd unto themselves so contrary both to the word of god , and to the lawes of the land. to which end they pass'd the bill for removing them from their temporal power and employments , that so the better they might with meekness apply themselves to the discharge of their functions . will ye now see the correspondence betwixt these gentlemens words , and their actions ? and first concerning the honour of the king ; wherein this word shall suffice , that they omitted nothing , in order to the destroying both of his soul , body , and reputation , which either craft , violence , or calumny could contribute , and not to rob either of the two factions of their deserved fame , and interest , in the ruine of that glorious prince . i shall conclude with parkers decision of the case , the presbyterians pass'd the sentence of condemnation , and the independents executed it . ze. i shall not pretend to iustifie all their actions ; but in truth my charity perswades me , that a great part of the mischief they did , proceeded rather from necessity then inclination . conf. will yee see then what they did afterward when they were at liberty to do what they listed ? they had no sooner murther'd the father , but immediately [ a ] they made it death to proclaime the son. [ b ] they abolisht kingly government . [ c ] sold the crown lands . [ d ] declar'd it treason to deny the supremacy of the commons . [ e ] null'd all honours and titles granted by the king since . [ f ] made scotland one common-wealth with england , &c. have they now kept any better touch with the liberty and property of the subject ? let their proceedings witness for them , [ a ] as their tax upon the fifth and twentieth part. [ b ] excise upon flesh , victuals , and salt. [ c ] a new excise upon allom , copper as , monmouth-caps , hoppes , saffron , starch , &c. [ d ] a loane of l. s. d. for supply of the scots . [ e ] an assessement for the maintenance of the army . [ f ] the house of peeres abolisht , and a monthly tax of l. for the army . [ g ] a monthly tax of l. [ h ] an imposition upon coal . [ i ] a monthly assessement of l. not to clogge the discourse with overmany particulars : wee 'll see next , what they have done toward the moderating of the power of bishops , and the removal of unnecessary ceremonies ? [ k ] the archbishop of canterbury suspended , and his temporalties sequestred . [ l monuments of superstition demolisht ( that is in short an ordinance for sacriledge ) [ m ] the book of common prayer laid aside , and the directory commanded in stead of it . [ n ] archbishops and bishops abolisht , and their lands setled in trustees . [ o ] their lands expos'd to sale. [ p ] festivals abolisht . [ q ] deans and chapters &c. abolisht , and their lands to be sold. this is your way , my masters , of moderating the power of bishops , and of removing unnecessary ceremonies ; and at the same rate you have provided for tender consciences , witness your penalties [ r ] for using the book of common prayer , and your forfeitures for not using the directory . zea. conformity ; you should do better , not to rip up these old stories again . conf. and if you would not hear of them again , you should leave doing them again . zea. then it seems the whole number must suffer for the misdemeanours of particulars . conf. no ; nor the whole party scape because of some particulars neither . would you ha' me open my door to a troop of thieves , because two or three of my honest friends are in the company ? and that 's the case . besides : you must permit me to distinguish betwixt particulars and the party ; for the party of non-conformists , are in a direct confederacy against the law ; whereas there may be divers particulars , that are mov'd only upon a principle of conscience . and those that are truly conscientious , will be known by this ; their'll endeavour their own satisfaction without any importunities upon the publique : for when they come once to joyn in a complaint against the law , 't is no longer conscience , but faction . and the question is not here , concerning the integrity of certain individuals , but how far a toleration belongs to the party , without any consideration of persons . zea. let us suppose then that the party may have done amiss ; i hope 't is no sin against the holy ghost . conf. truly , with reverence to charity , i take it to be next a-kin to 't , in very many of them . for , first ; they sinn'd against an evident light , as appears from their several doublings , and contradictory proceedings . next , there was a malice , notorious ; only i hope it went no further than god's vicegerent . but i 'le comply with the utmost of your argument : you would have those indulg'd that repent . with all my heart , if that will content ye . for still upon that condition , not a soul must be admitted that refuses to abjure the covenant : and there lies the very pinch of the question . for what the covenant meant , every body knows , from the express practice , and explication of them that made it . the league and covenant ( says rutherford ) was the first foundation of the ruine of the malignant party in england . and they that impos'd it , voted it death for any man , having taken it , to serve his majesty : so that whosoever refuses to disown the covenant , must be rationally supposed still to pursue the ends of it . which ends are , the subjection of the royal authoricy to the conclave of the kirk , and ( in terminis ) the abolition of episcopacy ; ( which his majesty has solemnly vow'd , and resolv'd to preserve ) from whence it arises undeniably , that , to tolerate the non-conformists that still adhere to the covenant , is to tolerate the sworn enemies both of royal , and episcopal authority , and of the peace of the nation : and in fine , to tolerate those that have sworn to persist in that opposition all the daies of their lives . from what is already said , it appears , first , that the non-conformists are not yet agreed what they would have , and i dare engage my self to be his slave that clears the proposition , farther , then that they would have this government unsetled , and they know not what in the place on 't . secondly , it is manifest , that impossible it is to please them any longer , then while they are united in a common design upon us : for next to publique order , they are the deadliest enemies one to another , as being govern'd by inconsistent principles . thirdly , it is past dispute , that by virtue of that favour which they now aske , and under colour of those pretences which they now hold forth , they have render'd themselves the instruments of all our late miseries , and the masters of the three kingdomes . fourthly , it is not more plain what they have done , then what they are now about to do ; and , that they have the same design upon the publique , at this instant , which they had in , is past all controversie . zea. conformity , you out-run the constable . will you pretend to enter into mens thoughts ? conf. no , i will not ; but if i should see a man throwing wild-fire into a magazine ▪ and he tells me that he does it to warm his fingers ; would not you take me for an asse , if i should believe him ? no , no , my fair friends . when ye see a wise man , frequently , and deliberately , doing things that manifestly lead to evil consequences , i think a very good christian may suspect that wise man's honesty . zea. come ; no more of your high-flown notions , but out with 't in good honest english : where 's the wild-fire , and the magazine that you would give us so learnedly to understand ? conf. where is it not rather ; to any man that will but look about him , without winking ? is not that sermon think ye that you sent me last night a pretty squib to cast into a populous ▪ town , that 's preach'd half to gunpowder already ? zea. and yet ye said e'en now , there was no danger . conf. i say the same thing still ; that is , without a toleration . zea. but where 's the mischief of that sermon i beseech ye ? conf. the book lies there upon the table , and 't is marqu'd to your hand : but i 'm ▪ not ready for 't yet ; if you please , wee 'll look it over by and by ; and speak a word in the mean time to the ius talionis , to the do as you would be done by of the matter . you would be tolerated by that government , which of all others , you your selves refus'd to tolerate ; stick now to your own rule , and tell me , with what face can ye demand a toleration , or for what sort of people ? begin with your clergy ; would you have them indulg'd ? zea. yes , as they are ministers of gods word , they ought to be indulg'd . conf. that can be no plea for them that persecuted gods ministers themselves . charity indeed is a general duty , but it is an argument that belongs only to them that practise it ; for , they that never spar'd any , cannot reasonably desire to be spar'd themselves . they are in the second place not to be tolerated ; upon the point of scandal : for , [ such are declar'd scandalous , as by writing , preaching , or otherwise , publish their disaffection to the present government ] 't is their own law , gentlemen ; and upon that score of disaffection , was introduc'd the most barbarous persecution of a gospel-ministry , that ever was heard of among christians . i could instance the particulars of the havock they made in london , the two universities , and finally throughout the kingdome . particularly , in south-wales ; where they did not only persecute the ministry , but the very gospel , by shutting up their churches , and condemning the people to the dictates and corruptions of unbridl'd nature . nor was it enough to sequester , unless they starv'd them too ; for they were not permitted , to live either as school-masters or chaplains , but upon severe penalties : a committee of middlesex indeed , told mr. lance ( a reverend , and a sequester'd minister ) that he might hedge and ditch for his living ( and that was the utmost of the liberty they could afford them. ) i could tell ye of the ministers that were poyson'd in peter-house , &c. but i shall make ye sick , and weary ; asham'd i hope ye are already , to plead for a toleration of those people against the law , that were thus mercyless toward their brethren that acted and suffer'd for it . but to seal up all with an authority : gillespy tells ye , that [ the general assembly hath ordain'd , that known complyers with the rebels , and such as did procure protections from the enemy , or keep correspondence and intelligence with him , shall be suspended from the lords supper , till they manifest their repentance before the congregation ] so that ye see we were not only debarr'd the common rights of subjects , and benefits of society ; but the very comforts of our religion were taken from us , and an anathema pronounc'd upon us for our loyalty ; and yet these people think it high reason to be tolerated themselves , and have the confidence to importune it from his most sacred majesty , to whose blessed father ( and that in the depth , and bitterness of his agonies ) they cruelly deny'd the use , and service of his own chaplains . [ a greater rigour , and barbarity then is ever us'd by christians to the meanest prisoners and greatest malefactors ] but ( continues that pious prince ) [ they that envy my being a king , are loth i should be a christian ; while they seek to deprive me of all things else ; they are afraid i should save my soul. ] a word now to the obligations we have to your civil authorities , as to the freedome of our persons and estates . visit but your own acts , and be your own iudges , ( but take the crime along with ye ; obedience to god , to the king , and to the law ) not to enumerate your particular , and personal outrages , as the clapping of so many honourable persons abord , and designing then for slaves , because they would not rebel ; the barbarous treatment of betwixt three and fourscore worthy and loyal gentlemen in the business of salisbury , that were shipp'd away and sold ( by an honest man ) to the barbados . nor to insist upon it , how many honourable persons have been smother'd , and starv'd in gaoles ; how much noble bloud hath been spilt both in the field , and upon the scaffold , &c. — i shall rather confine my self to some few of your general provisions for securing the royal party , and for the extirpation both of that line , and government , to which , providence has now again subjected ye : which ( to run over them in short ) shall be these [ a ] an ordinance for sequestration of delinquents estates . [ b ] delinquents disabled to bear any office , or have any vote in election of any maior , &c. here 's , estate , and legal freedome , gone already : now follows banishment from one place , and confinement to another . [ c ] delinquents must be remov'd from london and westminster , and confin'd within five miles of their own dwelling . [ d ] correspondency with charles stuart or his party prohibited under pain of high treason ] and [ e ] death to any man that shall attempt the revival of his claim , or that shall be aiding , assisting , comforting , or abetting unto any person endevouring to set up the title of any of the issue of the late king. these were the conditions of your favours , gentlemen , and the tryals of our faith. if ye are not yet convinc'd pray'e tell me , what was the reason , that throughout the whole course of your power , ye treated the episcopal party still worse then all the rest ? zea. because they were the most likely of all others to disturb our settlement . conf. very good , and what do ye think as to matter of conscience ? did ye do well , or ill in 't ? or rather , was there any thing of conscience in the case ? zea. truly i wish much of the severity had been abated ; but certainly , as 't was very fit for the civil power to secure the peace of the nation ; so was the power ecclesiastical no less concern'd to exact a conformity to the lawes and ordinances of christ. conf. can you say this , and not blush to deny the force of your own argument ? if ye did well in refusing to tolerate the episcopal way , because ye thought it not right ; the reason is as strong on the other side , that have the same opinion concerning yours . if ye did well o' th' other side , out of a political regard to the publique peace , the same reason lies as strong against ye that way too : so that you must either confess , that you did ill then , in refusing a toleration to us , or allow that authority does well now , in not permitting it to you. do not mistake me . i am as much as any man ( to borrow his sacred majesty's words ) for [ those that cannot conform , through scruple , and tenderness of misguided conscience : and for dissenters that demean themselves peaceably and modestly under the government . and that shall appear by and by , when we come to handle that question . zea. wee 're agreed then , if that be your opinion : and pray'e let 's forward to my friends sermon now . ( a person whom i take to be within the limit of your profess'd kindness ) conf. a match ; and if you please , i 'le glosse upon him to you . lo : eli sate upon a seat by the way side , waiting : for his heart trembled for the ark of god , sam. . . there 's his text ; from whence he gathers two observations . first , when the ark of god is in danger to be lost , the people of god have thoughtful heads , and trembling hearts . ( or , to put this doctrine into a gospel-dress ) when the gospel is in danger of losing , when gospel-ordinances are in danger of being lost , and gospel-ministers in danger of losing , then the people of god have trembling heads , and careful and solicitous hearts about it . secondly , a true child of god is more troubled , and more solicitous what shall become of the ark , then what shall become of wife and children , or estate . he gives you in the next place , four reasons , why the people of god are so much troubled when the ark of god is in danger . first , for the great love they bear to the ordinances of god , and to the faithfull ministers of christ. they cannot be silent ; they cannot but tremble when they see the ark of god in danger . secondly , they are troubled , because of the interest they have in the ark. the ordinances of god are the iewels of a christian , and the treasures of a christian , and the loss of them cannot but trouble them . and iesus christ is the ioy of a christian , and therefore when christ is departing , they cannot but be much afflicted at it . thirdly , they are troubled because of their accessariness to the losing of the ark. fourthly , the people of god are troubled because of the mischiefs that come upon a nation , when the ark of god is lost. the tongue of man is not able to express the misery of that nation where the ark of god is taken . first , when the ark of god is taken , then the wayes of sion mourn , and none come to the solemn assemblies ; it was the complaint of the church , lam. . . that is matter of sadness . secondly , the ministers of christ are then driven into corners . and that is matter of heart-trembling . thirdly , the souls of many are then in danger , when the gospel is gone , your souls are in hazard : there is cause of sadness . fourthly , the enemies of god blaspheme , and are ready to say , where is your god ? then do the enemies of god triumph . fifthly , then is jesus christ trampled under foot , and the ordinances of god defiled and trampled on , and then blasphemy and atheism comes in like an armed man. zea. very good , and what can you make out of all this ; but that the loss of the gospel is a dreadfull iudgment : the very fear of losing it , a dismal apprehension ; and that all other interests are as nothing in competition with iesus christ ? conf. agreed , thus far all 's right , and as it should be ; but come now to his application . the ark of god is ( at this instant ) in danger of being lost , d' ye see ? here is no less then all at stake , the very first dash. ask him now , where the danger lies ? he answers ye , that we have lost our first love to the gospel , and to the ordinances . is not this to charge the church of england with apostacy ? hear him again ; and set his vanity against his sedition . more particularly , aldermanbury may truly fear the loss of the ark , and be unchurched ; for want of a faithfull minister to go in and out before them . that is to say , famous mr. calamy ( for that epithete he bestowes upon himself ) is remov'd , and consequently the candlestick . another thing that makes him fear the loss of the ark , is , the abundance of priests , and iesuits , that are in the midst of us , and the preaching of popery amongst us , and the proneness of people to run headlong to the garlick and onions of egypt again . but where are our old eli's now , to sit watching and trembling for fear of the ark ? where are our moses ' s , our elijah ' s ? our uriahs , &c. observe this paragraph well . here 's first , an open and express endeavour to startle the people with a fear of popery , which was the very artifice by which this very person promoted our late troubles . secondly , here 's a direct arraignment of the king , and of his ministers . where are our moses's , &c. — what is this but to say , beloved , ye see , iesus christ is departing , idolatry is breaking in upon us , and our moses ' s , our ely's , never look after it . pray'e lay it a little more to heart , your selves . you can complain ( says he ) of taxes , and decay of trading ; of this civil burden , and that civil burden : but where 's the man or woman that complains of this misery . the loss of the ark ? who lays to heart , who regards what shall become of religion ? there is a strange kind of indifferency , and lukewarmness upon most peoples spirits : so they may have their trading go on , and their civil burdens remov'd , they care not what becomes of the ark. what is this , but to bring authority to the barr , and set the subject upon the bench ? what is it , but in plain terms , to sollicit the multitude to a tumult ? for mr. calamy knowes very well , that they have no other way in the world to do him a service in this case , but by sedition . and for fear of mistakes , note , i beseech ye , with what care the good man leads them to his meaning : they can complain of taxes he sayes , but hee would have them complain for the loss of the ark ; that is , in honest english , he would have them clamour against the government of the church . the very truth is , this gentleman speaks both upon experience , and foresight ; for no man knowes better , both what it has done , and what it may do . first , as to his foresight , rebellion can never be made god's cause , but by taking the ark into the quarrel . next , to his experience . this person was one of the five that menag'd the cause of the rabble against bishops , some twenty years agoe . there was compleyning for fear of the ark too : and what ensu'd upon it , but the dissolution of the government , the scandal of religion , and the murder of the king ? he blames the people next for their lukewarmness ; pray mark me ; they have been once in arms already since the king came in . they make no scruple at all of affronting the law : they have enter'd into several plotts upon the very person of his sacred majesty , and all this , for fear of the ark , as the poor wretches miserably imagine . if this zeal be not sufficient , i wonder what temper it is that our religious salamander would perswade them to : now take the whole matter in complication , and you have first , a prohibited minister preaching publiquely in despite of a solemn law. secondly , the sermon it self is within the reach of the act for the king's safety , where it is enacted , that what person soever , shall maliciously and advisedly publish or affirm the king to be an heretick or a papist , or that he endeavours to introduce popery ; or shall maliciously and advisedly , by writing , printing , preaching ; or other speaking , express , publish , utter or declare , any words , sentences , or other thing or things , to incite or stirr up the people to hatred or dislike of the person of his maiesty , or the established government ; then every such person and persons being thereof legally convicted , shall be disabled to have or enioy , and is hereby disabled and made incapable of having , holding , enioying , or exercising any place , office , or promotion ecclesiastical , civil , or military , or any other imployment in church or state , other than that of his peerage , &c. thirdly , here 's not only a reproche cast upon the government , but an appeal offer'd to the people , for the redress of it . now to proceed ; you have him here , charging upon the peoples consciences , the sin of not being sufficiently affected with the danger that the ark of god is in . it is a sign you do not love the gospel ; if you had any love to it , you would be troubled more for the danger of the ark , then for any outward danger whatsoever . is not this , the very style and scope of — . ( i spare his former hortatives to the warr , even for the credit of the function , ) the glory of god ( he sayes ) is imbark'd in the same ship which this cause is in . again , [ when you are derided for hazarding lives and estates in this cause , you must reply , it is for god , and his religion . and what was this cause , i beseech ye , but the foulest conspiracy that ever appear'd under that masque ? ( and those are of all others , certainly , the foulest . ) religion was then in danger , it seems : that is , the presbyterian was not as yet sure in the saddle ; nor would that obstinate and implacable faction ever be quiet , till they forc'd their soveraign to confute the imposture with his bloud . we have it now from the same hand , that the ark is in danger , and what 's that but the good old cause over again , only a little vary'd in the dress ? by the ark , he has already explain'd himself to intend , the interest of the ejected clergy [ pa. . ] ; and what he means by pressing so deep a concern for the danger of it , let any sober man imagine . he tells them first , that the ark is in danger , and then conjures them , as they love the gospel , not to regard any outward danger whatsoever to save it . if this be not to invite , provoke , and warrant any violence imaginable , either upon the person of the king , or upon the authority of the law , or wherever else the multitude shall think fit to fasten the quarrel ; let me suffer the shame that belongs to him that 's guilty of such an offence . nor shall the project want hammering , for hee 's over with it again and again , [ let me beseech ye all to declare you are the people of god in deed , and in truth , by following the example of old eli , to be very solicitous for the ark of god — [ consider what a sad condition we are in , if the ark be taken ; what will your estates doe ye good , or all your concernments do ye good , if the gospel be gone ? — what is the glory of england ; what is the glory of christianity but the gospel ? if the gospel be gone , our glory is gone . — oh! when the glory is gone , who would desire to live ? he goes on , [ i am loth to tell you the story of chrysostom ; he was but one man , yet when he was banish'd constantinople , the people all petitioned for him , and said , they could as well lose the sun out of the firmament , as lose chrysostome from among them . oh the sad , and lamentable , and woful condition we are in , if the ark of god be taken ! without any force to his meaning , take his sense in few words . what will your lives , or estates avail ye , without the gospel ? petition for your chrysostome again . ( good gentleman ! as if the sole receptacle of the holy ghost were mr. calamy's night-cap ) now to what end this tends , let any man look that is not blind . no man runs the risque either of his life , or fortune , for a petition ; so that his enforcing so much , the contempt of outward dangers , and of all other concernments , in comparison with the safety of the ark , ( which is now in hazard ) cannot rationally be apply'd to an action that carries along with it no danger at all . wherefore you must of necessity , grant , that your friend either meant nothing , or worse ; and that his pressing , and disposing the multitude to so great a contempt of their lives , and fortunes , was but a tacit encouragement of them to some action that might bring those interests in question . zea. i perceive , a presbyterian is well helpt up that has you for his interpreter . conf. can you your self acquit him ? zea. i must confess , i think he might have worded it with more caution . conf. and then his horrible , unchristian , bitterness against the government , — you have seen smectymnuus i suppose . zea. yes , yes ; he is a little eager in his way . conf. come , zeal ; i 'le disabuse ye : what will you say , if i bring you to a person , that shall averre to mr. calamy's face , that since his majesty's return , he has declar'd himself not unsatisfy'd with the government , and discipline of the church of england , and that only the importunity of his parishioners diverted him from accepting a bishoprick ? you will the less wonder at this when ye consider , how absolutely he was for the church , till he found it more beneficial to be against it . zea. all that i shall say , is this ; let every man speak as he finds : and so , if you please , wee 'll leave him to take his fortune . sect . x. arguments against toleration in respect of the authority that is to grant it . conf. come gentlemen , i have yet one exception more to your toleration , and that is upon the accompt of the authority that is to grant it . from whom do ye expect it ? zea. from the parliament . conf. but what is 't you call a parliament ? for , one while the king and the two houses in co-ordination are a parliament ; and when ye have screw'd out the kings negative voyce , the lords and commons are a parliament ; and then down go the lords , and the commons alone are a parliament ; and at last , out with them too , for the fountain of dominion is in the people . this is the scale of your politicks . but to the point in hand ; you apply to the parliament , and your grievance is matter of conscience ; do ye make the civil power a judge of conscience ? zea. no , under favour , my desire that the parliament will relieve my conscience , does not consequently make it a judge of it . conf. and with your pardon too , how shall the magistrate know whether your conscience is opprest , or no , if he be no judge of it ? one of these two rules he is to proceed by ; either that of his own particular , or the general rule of all consciences . if he measure your conscience by the former , there 's no oppression in the case ; for his conscience is very well satisfy'd in that which will not down with yours . if by the latter , all other consciences would be concern'd as well as yours , in the violation of a general rule : so that evidently , your scruples are singular , and if you cannot bring them within his cognizance , you must subject them to his authority ; and first teach him to know when your conscience is troubled , before ye complain because 't is not eas'd . scrup. for that , every man tells his owne tale best , and may best be credited in that which no body knows but himself . conf. and under that colour , so many men as make no conscience at all of an imposture , shall pretend to make one of a ceremony . peruse the tragedies of our holy leagues , covenants , and reformations : what crime so execrable that has not been committed under the motto of gods cause , and patronage of conscience ? what act so horrid , that has not past for a divine impulse ; and ( if it hit ) the author of it for an inspired instrument of iustice ? nay more ; not one notorious practice of a hundred , upon the person of a prince , but under a religious vernish ; and commonly , a priest at the one end of it , and an impulse at the other . was it not a holy father and the prior of the covent ( one of the heads of the league ) that confirm'd clement in his purpose of murdering harry the third of france ? for his encouragement ; they assur'd him , that if he out-liv'd the fact , he should be a cardinal ; if he dy'd , a saint : and this was it that fixt him in his determination . what was it again , that originally dispos'd this monster to that direful villany ; but principally seditious sermons against the king as a persecuting tyrant ? [ stimolato dalle predicationi , the giornalmente sentiva fare contra henrico di valois , nomi nato il persecutore della fede , & il tiranno , &c. ] see in the same author , the confession of iohn castle , concerning his attempt upon harry the great , which was , that he had been brought up in the jesuites school , and instructed , that it was not only lawful , but meritorious to destroy harry of bourbon , that revolted heretick and persecutor of the holy church [ esaminato con le solite forme , confesso liberamento , &c. ] what was it that animated ravillac to his damn'd practice upon that brave prince , but ( by his own confession ) a discourse of mariana's , de rege , & regis institutione ? 't was a divine instinct too , that mov'd balthasar gerard to destroy the prince of aurange [ divine tantum instinctu id à se patratum constanter affirmabat , diu tortus , &c. to conclude with that fresh and horrible instance here at home ; acted upon the sacred person of the late king. what was it , but the operation of that poyson in the people , which was instill'd into them by their ministers ? how inconsistent then is the liberty of the pulpit , with the safety of the government ? and how great a madness were it to expect , that the same persons should establish this prince by virtue of the same liberty by which they ruin'd the last ? you cannot certainly but confess the hazard to his sacred majesty of granting a toleration ; take a little notice now , of the indignity in proposing it . that grace which were an ample reward even for the most meritorious services , and loyalty , do these people mutinously demand as a requital for the contrary . scrup. will ye oppose the exercise of a charity , because it may be abus'd . conf. no , but i shall oppose the encouragement of a confidence that presses to be requited for an injury : and in truth , your petition properly taken , is rather a mockery then a request . as for the purpose , what is 't ye stick at ? scrup. the act for uniformity . conf. is it the model , or the uniformity that troubles you ? scrup. why truly i except to both ; for neither is the particular act fram'd to my satisfaction , nor is it possible , that any one form of worship should suit all judgments . conf. will toleration suit all judgments any better then uniformity ? or do ye accompt the sanction of any one form whatsoever , to be lawfull ? scrup. indeed i do not think it lawfull for a magistrate to enjoyn any thing upon a penalty , which a private person may not lawfully obey him in ; nor do i think it warrantable for a man to obey any humane command against his conscience . conf. now lay together what you have said ; first , it is not possible , that any one form of worship should suit all iudgments ; and then it is not lawfull to enjoyn any thing upon a penalty , which does not suit all iudgments . what is this but a meer trifling of government , to suppose a law without an obligation ? again ; if the magistrate cannot impose , neither can he tolerate ; unless you 'l suppose him a more competent judge of your conscience , then of his own : for you allow him the cognisance of what he may tolerate , and deny him the knowledge of what he may impose . in fine , your arguments , and opinions , duely weigh'd , his majesty has either no power , or no reason to permit you a toleration ; no power , as you state his capacity , and no reason as you disclaim his supremacie . scrup. i do not oppose the coactive power of the civil magistrate , in matters of civil concernment ; but i take the case in question to be of another quality , and out of the verge of the secular iurisdiction . conf. i think it will become you then , not to importune his majesty for the dissolving of an ecclesiastical law , before you acknowledge him vested with the right of making it . ze. if you think fit ; let that point be the next question . conf. agreed ; it shall . sect . xi . the proper subject and extent of humane power . conf. as reasonable nature consists of soul , and body ; so is the authority that governs it , divine and humane ; god , eminently over all , and princes ministerially under him , and as his substitutes . the dominion of our souls god reserves peculiarly to himself , committing that of our bodyes to the care of the magistrate . now if power be a. divine ordinance , so consequently is subjection ; for , to imagine the one without the other , were to destroy the ratio of relatives . a sober disquisition of this matter , would save much trouble that arises about the bounds and limits of our duty ; how far religion binds us , and how far allegeance . that they are severable , we must not doubt , for truth it self hath said it ; give unto caesar the things that are caesar's , and unto god the things that are god's : but that they are only so severable , as never to become inconsistent , is founded upon the same immovable rock , let every soul be subject , &c. — a precept of a perpetual , and universal operation , and limited neither to time , place , nor persons . ze. your deduction of government , and subjection from divine institution , is well enough coucht , and that we are to obey the magistrate for god's sake , and in subordination to god , is easily prov'd , and granted ; but i hear nothing yet of the particular bounds and terms of humane jurisrisdiction , what 't is belongs to god , and what to caesar . conf. that i confess , is the pinch of the question ; for one duty comes up so close to the other , that 't is not for every common eye to passe between them . effectually , they touch ; but , in what point , is of a nice decision . the readyest way in my opinion , to the strict knowledge of our duty , is by the lawes and powers of the authority ; for , 't is requisite that a man know the rule , before he can observe it . wee are then to consider , that the almighty wisdom has invested kings with an unlimited power of commanding , or forbidding , in all matters which god himself has not either commanded , or forbidden ; which proposition resolves it self into this conclusion , whatsoever god has left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . scrup. does not that opinion destroy christian liberty ? conf. no : but the denyal of it destroyes magistracy . if kings have not this power , they have none at all ; and it implyes a contradiction , to suppose any authority in nature without it . scrup. but may not a prince tye himself up in a thing otherwise indifferent ? conf. i speak of power according to the institution , not of power limited by paction . scrup. may not the same thing be indifferent to one , and not so to another ? conf. granted ; and i pray'e follow it a little further . may not every thing imaginable appear non-indifferent to some or other ; if nothing can be commanded , but what upon such a phansy may be disobey'd ? scrup. pardon me , i do not speak of matters of civil concern , but of matters of religion . conf. that 's all a case ; for you cannot instance in any one civil action , that may not be made relative to religion . but stick to the mark ; we are upon the extent of humane power : that there is such a power ; and that authoris'd too by god himself , you have already granted : now tell me , upon what shall that power be exercis'd , if you exclude things indifferent ? one man may have a reall scruple ; and all the rest , pretend one ; who shall distinguish ? so that the rule holding from one , to all , the sacred authority of the prince becomes dependent upon the pleasure of the subject , and the validity of a divine and unchangeable ordinance , is subjected to the mutable judgement and construction of the people . scrup. it may be you expect the magistrate should as well have a power of judging what 's indifferent , as of restreyning it . conf. you may be sure , i do ; for otherwise i 'm where i was , if i make you the judge : is 't not all one , as to the magistrate , whether you refuse upon pretense that the thing is not indifferent , or upon pretense that he cannot restreyn a thing indifferent ? the crime indeed is differing in the subject ; for the one way 't is an usurpation of authority , and the other way , 't is a denyall of it . scrup. why then it seems , i am to believe any thing indifferent , which the magistrate tells me is so , be it never so wicked . conf. no ; there you 're bound up by a superiour law. scrup. have you forgot your self so soon ? 't was but just now , you would not allow me to be a iudge , and here you make me one. conf. right ; to your self you are , but not to the publique : a judge of your own thought , but not of the law. scrup. at your rate of arguing now from one to all ; authority , methinks , should be as much endanger'd this way , as the other ; for all may iudge thus , as well as one. conf. 't is possible they may ; nay wee 'll suppose an imposition foul enough to move them all to do so ; and yet there 's a large difference ; for , diversity of iudgment does not shake the foundation of authority ; and a man may disobey a sinful command with great reverence to the power that imposes it . scrup. you were saying even now , that my duty to god , and to the king , could never be inconsistent : pray'e , how shall i behave my self , if the prince commands one thing , and god , another ? i cannot observe the law , without violence to my conscience , nor discharge my conscience , without offence to the law ; what course shall i take to avoid enterfering ? conf. demean your self as a christian toward the law of god , on the one hand ; and as a subject , toward the ordinance of god on the other : as considering that you are discharg'd of your obedience , but not of your subjection . scrup. suppose the supreme magistrate should by a law establish a false worship . conf. hee 's still your prince , and even in this complication , you may acquit your self both to god , and caesar. divide the worship from the magistrate , and in so doing , you both fear god , and honour the king ; and it is only this loyal and religious separation of our duties , that must set us right in the main controversie . where do ye find that kings reign upon condition of ruling righteously ? or that we owe them less after misgovernment , than we did before ? scrup. but do ye say , we are bound to honour an idolatrous prince ? conf. yes , yes : the prince you are bound to honour , though not as an idolater . shall the vice or error of the person , blemish the faultless dignity of the order ? by that rule , the world must continue without a government , till we can find men without failings . scrup. so that you allow i perceive of distinguishing betwixt the person and the office. conf. betwixt the frailty of the one , and the sacredness of the other , i do : for kings command as gods , though they iudge as men : but i do no more allow of dividing the person of a prince from his authority , then of dividing his soul from his body . scrup. and , i beseech ye , what is that which you call authority ? conf. to tell ye only that it is gods ordinance , falls short , i believe , of the scope of your ▪ question . wherefore take this in surplusage . it is the will and power of a multitude , deliver'd up by common consent to one person or more , for the good and safety of the whole : and this single or plural representative acts for all. take this along with ye too . the disposition of such or such a number of persons into an order of commanding and obeying is that which we call a society . scrup. what is the duty of the supreme magistrate ? conf. to procure the welfare of the people , or , according to the apostle ; he is the minister of god , for a comfort to those that do well , and for a terrour to evill-doers . scrup. how far are his lawes binding upon his subjects ? conf. so far as they that parted with their power had a right over themselves . scrup. whence was the original of power , and what form of government was first , regal , or popular ? conf. power was ordain'd of god , but specify'd by man ; and beyond doubt , the first form of goverment was monarchique . scrup. nay , certainly the popular form was first , for how could there be a king without a people ? conf. so was the son before the father ( you 'll say ) for how could there be a father without a son. but the question is first , was the world ever without a government , since the creation of man ? secondly , whether was first in the world , one man , or more ? i see well enough what 'tis you 'd be at ; you would fain advance the popular form above the regal : which if ye could , 't were nothing to our purpose ; for we are not upon the form of government , but upon the latitude of humaene iurisdiction , be the sovereignty where it will ; and that it extends to whatsoever god has left indifferent , is my assertion . if you deny this , you overthrow all government , ( as is already prov'd ) and if you grant it , we are at liberty for the next enquiry which is concerning , sect . xii . the bounds of toleration ; with some reflections upon schism , and scandal . conf. it is already agreed , that government is a divine ordinance ; and order ( according to the reverend hooker ) is only , a manifestation of the eternal law of god. so that i think , a man may safely pronounce ( upon this allowance ) first , that what principle soever is manifestly destructive of government , or but rationally tending to confusion , cannot le of god. secondly , every man is to content himself in his station as being no farther accomptable , than for what 's committed to his charge . under these two heads will be found ( if i mistake not ) whatsoever belongs to the political part of our debate . we are here to enquire , not how far toleration may be convenient , or otherwise ; but how far warrantable and lawful : and i find it ( by a reverend , and learned prelate ) brought to this standard , [ in the question of toleration , the foundation of faith , good life , and government is to be secur'd . ] wherein is compris'd a provision and care , that we may live as christians toward god ; as members of a community toward one another ; and as loyal subjects toward our sovereign . now if you 'll admit opinions to be only so far tolerable as they consist with these duties of religion , morality , and society , we have no more to do , but to apply matters in controversie to the rules of piety , and good manners , and to the ends of government . scrup. ' t is true ; were men agreed upon those rules : but we see several men have various apprehensions of the same thing ; and that which one man takes for a rule , another counts an errour . conf. by your argument , we shall have no religion , because men differ about the right ; no bible , because men disagree about the meaning of it : no rule , in fine , at all to square our actions by , till truth , and reason shall be establisht by a popular vote . the law says worship thus , or so ; use this form , that ceremony , posture , habit , &c. — the libertine cries no , 't is a confinement of the spirit ; an invention of man ; a making of that necessary which god left free ; a scandal to tender consciences , &c. — and here 's authority concluded , as to the manner of worship . so for the time. how do they know when christ was born , or crucify'd ? nay , they have much adoe to call to mind when the late king was murder'd : but the relief of taunton , and the repulse they gave the cavaliers at lyme : this they can very well remember , and celebrate those daies of mercy with a most superstitious gravity , and form. the churches fasting-daies , they make their iubilees ; and still it happens , that their consciences and the law , run counter . 't is the same thing , as to the place ; command them to church ; they 'll tell ye , there 's no inherent holiness in the walls ; the hearts of the saints , are the temples of the lord. is not god to be found in a parlour , as well as in a steeple-house ? in fine , what 's their plea for all this ; but that , this is one mans iudgment , that , anothers : this or that may be indifferent to you , but not to mee . what 's indifference to christianity ? this sickly humour opens a door to as many controversies as there are men ; it leaves authority , naked ; and exposes the law to any mans scorn , that shall think fit to scruple his obedience . to conclude ; this lawless liberty , razes the very foundation of government ; it creates as many religions , as there are several phansies ; and , briefly , the assertors of this liberty are of the number of those that are not upon any terms to be admitted within the pale of a toleration . scrup. shall the magistrate make me act against my conscience ? conf. shall the subject make him tolerate against his ? but to proceed ; there are that place [ a ] the soveraignty in the diffusive body of the people , that hold it lawfull for the subjects to enter into leagues and covenants , not only without the soveraign's consent , but against his authority ; that call upon the people in the pulpit , [ b ] to assist the forces raised by the parliament , according to their power and vocation , and not to assist the forces raised by the king , neither directly nor indirectly : that proclaym [ c ] the breach of the national covenant , to be a greater sin , then a sin against a command'ment , or against an ordinance — a sin of so high a nature , that god cannot in honour but be aveng'd upon 't . these are a people likewise , whose principles stand in no consistence either with piety or with government ; and can as little pretend to the benefit of a toleration as the former . there are that asfirm , [ d ] reformation of religion to be the people's duty no less then the king 's : [ e ] and that the pastors of the land are oblig'd to reform themselves and religion without the king ; nay , though the king command the contrary . there are that print [ f ] the english episcopal clergy to be sons of belial ; that press the cutting of them off ; that scandalously charge them with drunkennesse , prophanesse , superstition , popishness : to the dishonour of that government which his majesty has sworn to maintain , and to the hazard of the publique peace . these also do i take to be a people , whose practices and opinions threaten a certain and swift destruction both to church and state , wherever they are tolerated . what security can a prince expect , where his mistakes are made the common theme of the pulpit , and where his regalities are subjected , to the good pleasure of his subjects . ze. you do not think it lawfull then i perceive , to tolerate the non-conformists . conf. till they renounce their seditious , and anti-monarchical wayes , i must confess i do not . ze. and which are those i beseech ye ? conf. their inconformity to the law ; their doctrine of conditional obedience : their erecting an ecclesiastical supremacy to overtop the prerogative royall ; to say no more , their declaring the magistrate accomptable to the people . scrup. conformity , you have spoken some sharp truths , and it is to be presum'd that you 'l allow the liberty you take . whether do you believe scandal to be any more tolerable , than schism ? or , are not the sons of the church ( as ye call them ) as guilty of the one , as the non-conformists are of the other . conf. scandal , my good friend , is a general term ; especially as you frequently apply it : and 't is but reason for me to ask your meaning , before i give you my answer . to say , that the sons of the church are guilty of scandal , when , eo nomine , they appear to you scandalous , is no more then to say , that the sons of the church are the sons of the church : for , the church it self , the government , and the rites of it , are all , scandalous to you. wherefore i beseech ye , be a little more particular , that i may understand what scandal you intend , and be as plain , as playn may be . scrup. nay , you shall have it then , and as plainly too as your heart can wish . your position is , that no toleration can warrantably be granted to the hazard of religion , good life , and government . according to that standard , you 'ld find , that the conformists have as little right to a toleration , as their neighbours ; and that the notorious scandal on the one side , out-weighs the pretended schism on the other . but , to make my self understood ; by scandal , i mean publique and habitual prophaneness , sensuality , dissolution of manners , &c. — as , by schism and sedition , i suppose you intend our incomplyances with your church-discipline : our preaching up the power of godliness , against the form of it , ( which you interpret to be a decrying of your ceremonies ) and our exhortings , rather to obey god than man , ( which you are apt to take for an affront to your master's prerogagative . ) 't is true ; we cannot bring up our consciences to your ceremonies , and , for refusing to doe , what we cannot iustifie the doing of , we are baptiz'd , schismatiques . this extermination of us from the publique assembly , puts us upon the necessity of private meetings ; and there we are charg'd with plotts ; and practices upon the state. take it all at the worst , it is but doing that which the whole world agrees must necessarily be done ▪ after such a manner as some people imagine we ought not to do it . so much for the schism of the non-conformists . now put the scandal of the adverse party into the other scale , and you your self shall hold the ballance . set but your tavern-clubs against our conventicles , and ( since you will have it so ) oppose our plotts against the government in the one , to your combinations against god himself in the other ; ( for atheism is become the sport , and wit ; the salt of your most celebrated enterteinments . ) in your own words , [ the eternal verity is made a fable ; religion but a scar-crow , ( the sour impression of a superstitious melancholy , ) nor , is't enough to abandon heaven , unless ye invade it too ; and in the throne of providence , set up the empire , and divinity , of fortune . when you have dash'd the bible out of countenance , with the conceit of the three grand impostors , or some such tart piece of drollery , ( and all this enterlarded with execrable , and study'd blasphemyes ) the man must be cast off , as well as the christian ; and there 's the upshot of your familiar conversations . if such people as these may be tolerated , where 's your ▪ foundation of faith , good life , and government ? conf. we are fallen , i must confess into a lewd age ; and yet truly , when i consider , that this nation has been twenty years under your tuition , 't is a greater wonder to me ; that it is not quite overspread with atheism , than to find it only teinted and infected with it . the reproche and load of this impiety , you have cast upon the episcopal party : but when we come to trace the monster to his den , i 'm afraid we shall bring the footsteps of him up to your own dore. that there are exorbitants in all perswasions , is a thing not to be doubted ; and that there are in ours as well as in others , i will not deny ; but to asperse the cause for personal misdemeanours , is , to my thinking , very disingenuous . if ye will charge personal crimes upon the accompt of a party , you should be sure to make out those crimes to be rationally consequent to the tenents , or actings , of that party . now if you can shew me any affinity betwixt our principles , and those villanyes , you say something ; but if ye cannot , the dust of your argument puts out your own eyes . scrup. you forget that you condemn your own practice ; for why may not i charge personal extravagancies upon your party , as well as you do it upon ours ? conf. only because there is not that affinity ( as i said but now ) betwixt the principles of the party , and the faults of the persons ; on the one side , which i find on the other . to make this as clear as the day , wee 'l open it thus. the episcopal party was for the king , and 't is undenyable , that the king , and the church , had both the same cause , and the same fate . the nonconformists were against the king ; and it is there as unquestionable , that they were the men that destroy'd both church , and state. so that the issue lies within this compass ; whether the soveraignty be in the king , or in the people ? if in the king , the rebellion was on your side ; if in the people , the guilt of the warr lyes upon us . now place the power where ye please ; do ye own the kings authority , or do ye disclaim it ? if ye disclaim it , why do ye petition to your inferiour ? or why should the king favour his competitours ? if ye acknowledge it , wee 'l proceed upon this grant , that the non-conformists were in a rebellion ; and prove that all the transcendent abominations which you compleyn of , are but the proper , and natural fruits , that have proceeded from that root . ze. you know there have been several popular tracts written upon this subject ; as — some-bodyes soveraign power of parliaments . rutherford's lex rex , &c. that never were answer'd yet . conf. well said old true-penny . i think the assemblyes letter to the reformed churches , was never answer'd neither . but , to be serious . there are indeed many dangerous , and seditious treatises that lye unanswer'd ( the more 's the shame , and pity . ) if no body were wiser then my self ; the sum of them all should be confuted in one just volume , and the origina's committed to the fire , for the security of the future . scrup. but you were about to tell us how rebellion begets atheism . conf. well remembred ; and i pray'e observe . there are but two sorts of people that are capable of being drawn into a rebellion , the weak and the wicked ; those that do not understand what they doe , and those that care not what they doe . the ordinary stale , is religion ; the scene of this spiritual imposture is the pulpit , and the arbitrators of the cause are the preachers ; by the benefit of which conjuncture , ( to wit ) of the weight of the matter in question ; [ religion ] with the authority appoynted to determine it ; [ god 's ministers ] it is no hard business for a peinfull and well-affected ministry ( that is , painfull , and well-affected in , and to the design ) to preach the generality of the people into this division : [ i. e. ] those that cannot reach the cheat to scruple at every thing ; and those that go along with it , to make a conscience of nothing : and hence it comes , that this kingdome is so pester'd with enthusiasts , and atheists . zea. but i tell ye again ; the atheists are on the wrong side : the atheists are against us . conf. let me enform ye then , that your proceedings have made atheists , more waies then one. first , the meer quality of your cause , has made atheism the interest of many of your partakers ; who to put off that horrour which attends them if there be a god , endeavour to perswade themselves that there is no god at all . secondly , the work has been carried on under the masque of holiness ; and the most desperate atheist , is nothing else but a crusted hypocrite . i speak of your religious atheist , who has this odds of the prophane , and scoffing wretch , that he abuses god to his face , and in his own house . the great atheists , indeed , are hypocrites ( sayes sir francis bacon ) which are ever handling holy things , but without feeling ; so as they must needs be cauteriz'd in the end. it is remarquable , ( as i have elsewhere observ'd ) that in the holy scripture there are not so many woes pronounc'd , nor so many cautions inculcated , against any sort of people as against hypocrites . you shall there find that god has given the grace of repentance to persecutors , idolaters , murtherers , adulterers , &c. but i 'm mistaken if the whole bible yields any one instance of a converted hypocrite . thirdly , let me tell ye , for the honour of your practises , that as to the defence of atheism , you have done more then all that ever went before ye ; upon that noble argument . your people were not [ a wicked , prophane , drunken ministry ( they would never have setled the ark ) but sober , pious , godly ministers , that did the feat : — a praying , and reforming people . indeed a people that would seize a brother's benefice with more reverence , then any of our prelates gives a charity . zea. be not severe , conformity . conf. then bid your brethren leave their gibbrish , and their iugling ; and wee 'll to our atheism again . answer me soberly , what if a state should grant a toleration , for all men to talk of god-almighty as they please ? scrup. a horrid , impious proposition ! conf. thou art the man , scruple ; that which you ask is more and worse ; for the liberty is the same , and the danger infinitely greater . in earnest , he that looks narrowly through our late troubles , from to . will find matter not only to stagger a weak christian , but to put a wiseman to a second thought ; and to make him exclaim with the prophet , [ lo , these are the ungodly , these prosper in the world , and these have riches in possession — then have i cleansed my heart in vain , and washed my hands in innocency . to see nye , and marshall with their hands lifted up un-the lord in a holy covenant ; swearing to day to defend and preserve the king's majesty's person , &c. and a while after with the same consecrated lips , blessing that cursed vote , that manifestly led to his destruction ( the vote of non-addresses ) which was no more then saying grace to the kings bloud . to see a gang of pulpit-weather-cocks shifting from party to party , till they have run through every point of the compass , swearing , and counter-swearing ; and when the city was split into more factions , then parishes , still to mainteyn , that the whole schism was acted by the holy-ghost . to find the pulpit in stead of plain and saving truths trading only in dark and oraculous delusions , and the pretended messengers of peace , turn'd agents for bloud — to hear and see all this , and more , and the cause prosper too . what could the wit of man add more to this temptation to apostacy ? lastly , i must impute much of that iniquity which now reigns , to your necessitated toleration : i call it necessitated , for you could never have crush't the government without it . that toleration started so many lewd opinions , that it was some degree of modesty , for fear of a worse choyce , to be of no religion at all ; and beyond question , many people finding it left so indifferent of what religion they were ; became themselves as indifferent , whether they were of any religion or no. you have forc'd me here , in my own defence , to be a little sharper then i intended ; and truly since we are in thus far , and that the schismatiques think it so mighty a matter to hit the prelatical party i' th' teeth at every turn , with the imputation of scandal ; i beseech ye tell me , which o' the two do you count the more tolerable , scandal , or schism ? scrup. if by schism you mean , a refusal to joyn with that church where i cannot communicate without sin : and if you intend by scandal , such actions as are of ill example , and administer occasion to your neighbour of falling , i think 't is easily determin'd , that the one is not to be suffer'd , and the other not to be condemn'd . conf. when i speak of schism , and scandal , let not me be understood , to speak of this or that sort , or degree of either ; but in the just latitude both of the one , and the other : that is ; without more circumstance , which do you take for the more tolerable mischief of the two ? scrup. truly betwixt a perverse-separation , and a notorious scandal , i think the choyce is hard : but i rather incline against the scandal . conf. then let me tell ye , schism is both ; and if ye will believe sir francis bacon , [ heresies and schisms , are of all others the greatest scandals ; yea more then corruption of manners . ] consider it first , as it stands in opposition to unity , ( which is the bond both of religion , and society ) what can be more scandalous then that which renders religion it self , ridiculous ? and that 's the effect of schism . to see so many several factions grinning one upon another , and yet all pretending to the same one , and infallible spirit ! to bring it homer , how great a shame and trouble is this to those that are within us ! how great a discouragement to such as are without us ; and how great a subject of rejoycing is it to those that are against us ! how many ( in fine ) has it driven from us ; and how many more has it hinder'd from coming to us ! again ; 't is seldome , ( i think i might say , never ) seen , that schism goes alone : and in effect , it is but sedition in a disguise . for we find that our scrupulous dissenters , can with great ease , and unity , agree in a war , though not in a ceremony . scrup. and may there not be conspiracies in scandal , as well as in schism ? there , with an evident design to bring contempt upon religion : whereas here , we find at least a colour , and pretence to uphold it . beside ; the sins which i accompt scandalous , are , many of them , levell'd at the prerogative of god himself ; and , in short , the question is not properly , and simply , betwixt schism , and scandal , but betwixt schism , and ail other sins whatsoever that may be propagated by conversation ; ( for that 's the latitude of scandal ) zea. again , let me observe from your own mouth , that heresies are scandals , and several heresies you know , both by the laws of god and man , are punish'd with death . he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , shall be put to death . and from hence you may gather some difference sure , betwixt the heynousness of the one , and of the other . conf. if you will measure the sin by the punishment , you 'll proceed by a very uncertain rule : for political laws regard rather publique conveniences , than particular cases of conscience . a man shall lose his life for picking a pocket , and but hazard his ears for a false oath . but if you 'll refer the matter to the just and infallible judge of all the world , ●● god himself ; look but into that dreadful judgement upon the schism of korah . korah , dathan , &c. rose against moses with two hundred and fifty captains of the assembly , famous in the congregation , and said unto them , ye take too much upon you , since all the congregation is holy , every one of them , and the lord is among them . wherefore then lift ye your selves above the congregation of the lord. [ and what follow'd ? ] the earth open'd her mouth , and swallow'd them up with their families , and all the men that were with korah , &c. a fire came out from the lord , and consum'd the two hundred and fifty men that offer'd the incense . this set the multitude a muttering against moses and aaron ; saying ye have kill'd the people of the lord. see now what came of this muttring too : fourteen thousand seven hundred of them were consum'd by a plague . zea. well! but what if you 'll understand that to be schism , which i know to be conscience ? conf. then have you the same freedome to be even with me , upon the point of scandal ; and so the controversie must be endless for want of a judge to decide it . sect . xiii . the necessity of a final , and unaccomptable judge . conf. what 's your opinion of the necessity of a iudge ? ze. i 'm clearly for a judge ; that is , for a iudge furnish'd as well with a competency of understanding to determine aright , as with a power and commission to determine . conf. a iudge supposes one competency , as well as the other ; but the determination must be final , and decisive ; no appeal from it , and no contending beyond it . ze. what not in case of errour ? i should be sorry to see a roman infallibility set up in england . conf. how you start now from the shadow of an infallible judge , into the inconvenience of none at all ! you would have a judge you say : but then , that judg must be questionable , in case of errour ; so that another judg is to judg him , and the very judg of this judg is himself questionable ; and so is his judg , and his judges judg ; - ( to the end of the chapter ) in case of errour : which case of errour may be alledg'd , wheresoever there 's no infallibility ; and if there be no infallibility in nature , then by your rule , there can be no iudg in nature . ze. i do not say but a man may iudg certainly in some cases , though not infallibly in all ; and my demand is only the free exercise of my iudgment of discretion , without being ty'd up to an implicit resignation . there is ( in short ) but a right , and a wrong ; and the one i must embrace , and reject the other . how shall i know this from that , without enquiry ? and what am i the better for that enquiry , if when i have learn'd my duty , i am debar'd the liberty to practise it ? conf. you turn the question here from the necessity of a judge , to his infallibility . 't is not a half-penny to me , whether you make him infallible , or credible , or probable ; or what you make him , or where you place him , provided that he be acknowledg'd ▪ necessary , and unaccomptable . necessary , i suppose you will not stick at : for there can be no peace without him , every man being at liberty to wrangle , where no man is authoris'd to determine . zea. what is it that either invites tyranny , or upholds it , but the opinion of an unaccomptable-sovereignty ? conf. what is it rather ( you should have said ) that excites sedition , and depopulates kingdomes , but the contrary ? and the fiercest tyranny , is much more supportable then the mildest rebellion . zea. i shall readily allow you the convenience of a definitive judgment , if you will but secure me from the danger of a definitive injustice . conf. you mistake your self , if you oppose a possible injury on the one side , to a certain strife and confusion on the other . if infallibility you cannot find , why may not the the fairest probability content you ? zea. but would you have that probability , govern by unquestionable , and authoritative conclusions ? conf. by any means ; ye do nothing , else ; for where controversies are inevitable , and concord necessary ; what can be more reasonable , than to chuse the most competent iudge of the matter in controversie , for the concluding umpire of the controversie it self ? scrup. but a man may iudge probably in one case , and improbably in another . suppose the determination to be manifest errour , or injustice ; would you have the same submission pay'd to 't , as if it were equity , and truth ? conf. yes ; to the determination , though not to the errour : you are to stand to the authority of the sentence , without contesting the equity of it : for right or wrong , 't is a decision . the principal scope , and sure end of a reference , is peace : the hopeful event , and issue of it , is , righteous judgment . is it not well then , to be sure of the one , and in so fair hopes of the other ? put it to the worst : you are not bound to be of the judge his opinion , but to be over-rul'd by his authority : neither do you undertake that he shall judge wisely as to the subject of the question , but that he shall judge effectually , as to the purpose of the reference . scrup. this resignation may do well , in cases of civil interest : but it will hardly hold in matters of conscience . who shall pretend to iudge of my conscience , beside god , and my self ? conf. the scripture , which is the rule of all consciences , shall be the iudge of yours . but the question is not , what your conscience is , but what it ought to be : not what your private judgment says , but what the scripture means : and the thing i strive for , is a judge of that ; a iudge of the rule of faith ; which i take to be all out as necessary as a iudge of a political law. you cannot but allow , that there are diversities of opinions , as well in religion , as concerning secular affairs : and such is our corruption , that we draw poyson even from the fountain of life , and the word of god it self , is made the warrant of all crimes , and the foundation of all heresies . look behind ye , and you may see a prince murther'd by his subjects , authority beheaded by a pretended law , and all this defended by a text. the church dovour'd by a divided ministry ; the government overturn'd by a solemn league and covenant , to support it . an arbitrary power introduc'd by the patrons of liberty , and charity it self extinguish'd for the advancement of the gospel . we have liv'd to see as many haeresies , as congregations ; and among those of the classical way , a consistorian sarutiny exercised beyond the rigour of a spanish inquisition . we have seen some that a abhor idols , committing sacriledge ; christ's kingdome cry'd up , till his b divinity is deny'd : strictness of life inculcated , till the very rule of it ( the c decalogue it self ) is rejected . and blasphemy hunted out of the tavern , into the pulpit . in short ; what sin , and misery have we not known , and felt , since under the form of liberty of conscience , this freedome of a private spirit came in vogue ? nor are we ever to expect better from it , till all men shall conspire to do the same thing , where every man is left to his own gust , to do what he pleases : and whence flowes all this mischief , and confusion , but from a licence of wandring from the rule ? shew the people a written law ; they 'll tell you of a law of nature ; and distinguish betwixt [ the d politique power they have given the king , and the natural power which they reserve to themselves . ] bid them reverence the king as the supreme governour : they 'll answer you , no : hee 's but the servant , and vassal of the people : his royalty is only a virtual emanation from them ; and in them radically , as in the first subject . ( according to rutherford , parker , goodwin , bridges , milton , and a hundred more ) come to the point of non-resistence , and you shall hear , that a wheresoever a king , or other supreme authority creates an inferiour , they invest it with a legitimacy of magistratical power , to punish themselves also , in case they prove evil-doers : yea , and to act any other thing , requisite for the praise and encouragement of the good. if it be demanded in what capacity the king may be resisted ? hear rutherford again b the man who is king may be resisted , but not the royal office ; the king in concreto , may be resisted ; but not the king in abstracto . ] . but in what manner may he be resisted ; and by what means . c he may be resisted in a pitch'd battel , and with swords and guns . that is ; his d private will may be resisted , not his legal will ; neither is he present in the field as a e king , but as an injust invader , and grassator . if he chance to be slain : 't is but an f accident ; and who can help it ? g hee 's guilty of his own death ; or h let them answer for 't that brought him thither . i the contrary party is innocent . but this resistence , is only justifiable ( i hope ) in magistrates , or authoritative assemblies ; as parliaments , &c. rutherford sayes nay to that . all powers must be serv'd with the same sauce , if they abuse their trust. k [ the people can give no other power , then such as god has given them ; and god has never given a moral power to do ill. ] l [ all fiduciary power , abus'd , may be repeal'd ; and parliamentary power is no other : which , if it be abus'd , the people may repeal it ; and resist them ; annulling their commissions ; rescinding their acts , and denuding them of their fiduciary power : even as the king himself may be denuded of the same power , by the three estates ] and goodwin tells us , in little ; that a all humane lawes , and constitutions , are made with knees to bend to the law of nature and necessity . well ; but suppose the prince has the good hap to scape gun-shot ; and only to become a prisoner ; you have no law to try him by , he has no peers , what course will you take with him ? milton's opinion is that b every worthy man in parliament , might , for the publique geod , be thought a fit peer , and iudge of the king ; ] and goodwin dogmatizes , that c [ where there is no opportunity , for the interposure of other iudges , the law of nature , and of nations allows every man to iudge in his own case . ] parker comes homer yet d there never was ( says he ) a greater harmony of the lawes of nature , reason , prudence , and necessity to warrant any act , then may be found , and discern'd in that act of iustice on the late king ; ] now if you 'll see a piece of treason crown'd with blasphemy , carry your eve four pages farther . e god himself had eclips'd , yea lost the brightest beam of his divine glory , that ever shin'd on this lower world , if he had not some way or other , brought that person to some eminent , and praeter-natural punishment . ] me thinks these practices should put you , and your cause out of countenance . scrup. you must understand , that though my reason lies against uniformity , yet i 'm no advocate for anarchy : and 't is with non-conformists as with other people ; there are good and bad , of all sorts . but to go with the moderate : would you have all mens consciences govern'd by the same rule , when 't is impossible to bring them all to the same mind ? conf. better , particulars suffer for incompliance with the publique , than the publique suffer for complying with particulars . uniformity is the ciment of both christian , and civil societies : take that away , and the parts drop from the body ; one piece falls from another . the magistrate , ( for order's sake ) requires uniformity ; you , and your associates oppose it upon a plea of conscience ; and the question is , whether he shall over-rule your opinions ; or you over-rule his authority ? this dispute begets a war , for want of a iudge , and to prevent that mischief , i offer that a iudge is necessary . or put it thus : you and i differ , and possibly we are both of us in the wrong ; but most certainly , we are not both in the right : and yet neither of us but thinks well enough of his own opinion . what 's to be done in this case ? shall we wrangle eternally ? scrup. no ; wee 'll rather put the matter to arbitration . conf. well! but the arbiter himself is fallible , and may mistake too ; or let him have the wisdome of an angel , he cannot please us both : for that which seems right to the one will appear wrong to the other . shall we stand to his award what ever it be ? if not ; take into your thought these consequences . you refuse to submit because 't is wrong : i may refuse , by the same reason , though it be right : ( for every man's reason is of equal force , where there is no common , and representative reason to bind all ) so that by your reckoning ; every man is in the right to himself , and in the wrong to all the world beside ; every man's hand is against his brother , and his brother 's against him. ( at least if i deceive not my self , in my perswasion , that nature never produc'd two persons , in all points , of the same judgment . ) now , if you can neither deny confusion to be the natural effect of this liberty of judgment ; nor the want of a regulating , and decretory sentence , to be the manifest cause of this confusion , i hope you 'll grant me the necessity of an unaccomptable judge . scru. is not the word of god a sufficient iudge ? conf. no ; that 's no iudge , but [ a rule for christians to iudge by ] and the great hazard lies upon the meaning of that rule . what swarms of heresies have over-spread this land , since the bible has been deliver'd up to the interpretation of private spirits ? scrup. you say well , if you could direct me to a iudge that we might all relie upon . conf. and you say something too , if you could make appear , that none at all , is better then the best we have : or that popular errours , numberless and inevitable ( with the dissolution of communities to boot ) are to be preferr'd to the few , and only possible , failings of authority , attended with peace , and agreement . but to come to the short of the question ; this is it : whether will you rather have , one fallible iudge ; or , a million of damnable heresies ? scrup. truly , as you have reduc'd it , to a certainty of peace the one way , and to as great a certainty of discord the other ; to a certainty of many errours without a iudge , and to a bare possibility of some few , with one ; i am content in this particular , to think a final iudge necessary . conf. if you find it so in the church , sure you will not dispute it in the state , especially against an experience too , the most forcible of all reasons . we were never troubled with constructive necessities ; with cavils about the receptacle of power , and the limits of obedience : with distinctions betwixt the political , and the natural right of the people ; the legal , and personal will of the prince ; and betwixt the equity and letter of the law ; till judgment was forc'd from its proper course , and channel , and the decision of right and wrong , committed to the frivolous and arbitrary determinations of the multitude . scrup. pray'e by your leave . i am as much for a iudge , as you ; but not for one judge to all purposes ; nor , i confess , for any iudge so absolute as you would have him . conf. i tell ye again ; a iudge , and no absolute judge , is no judge : and you shall as soon find the end of a circle , as of a controversie , by such a iudge . nor is it my meaning , that one iudge should serve for all purposes . scrup. will you divide your matter then , and assign to every judicable point , his proper judge ? conf. you say well ; for truly i do not take the magistrate to be any more a judge of my conscience , than i am of his. scrup. 't is very right ; and it were an encrochement upon the prerogative of god himself , for him to challenge it . conf. how comes it now , that we that agree so well i' the end , should differ so much ' i th' way to 't ? but i hope , the clearing of the next point will set us through-right : for after the setling of the iudge , we have nothing further to do but to submit ; and so wee 'll forward . sect . xiv . the three great iudges of mankind , are , god , magistrates , and conscience . conf. some things we do as men ; other things as men in society ; and some again as christians . in the first place , we are acted by the law of individuals ; which law is , in the second place , subjected to that of government ; and both these lawes are , in the third place , subordinate to that of religion ; i. e. the law of god's reveal'd will. so that the three great judges of mankind , are , god , magistrates , and conscience . man , as consisting of soul , and body , may be again subdivided within himself . take him in his lower capacity , and hee 's sway'd by the general law of animal nature ; but in his divine part , you 'll find him govern'd by the nobler law of refin'd reason : which reason , in some respects , may be call'd prudence ; and in others , conscience ; according as 't is variously exercis'd . the things which we do purely as men , ( abstracted from any ingredients of policy , or regulated religion ) are either natural actions , prudential , or moral . of the first sort , are those actions to which we are prompted by a natural impulse , in order to the conservation of life , and beeing . of the third sort , are such actions as we perform in obedience to moral principles ; ( which are no other than the divine will veil'd under the dictate of humane reason ) and betwixt these two , lies the region of middle actions ; that is , of such actions , as although not of simple and strict necessity , either to life , or virtue , are notwithstanding useful , and commodious , for the guidance , and comfort of the one , and for the practice of the other . the accurate disquisition of this interest , laies the axe to the root of the question ; for nothing has embroyl'd us more , then the mistaken rights of individuals ; which mistakes being once clear'd , by laying open the subordination of several claims , and powers , every man may take a distinct view of his own province . zea. proceed regularly n●●● , and state these subordinations as you go . conf. content ; and we are now upon the right of individuals ; in which naked simplicity of considering man ▪ without any regard to the ordinary motions of providence , in the order , and regiment of the world , we shall yet find a manifest subordination within himself , and the law of sense , under the dominion of the law of reason in the same subject . these are the laws which the apostle calls , the law of his members , and the law of his will. the former ( and the less excellent ) law , is the law sensitive ; which is no other than the law of self-preservation , ( indeed , the supreme law of animal beings , as of rationals , the lowest ; ) this law sensitive is ( effectually ) the manifestation of god , in the creature . ( for what sense does , nature does ; and what nature does , god does ) zea. but what is that power which you call nature ? conf. it is the ordinary working of god in all his creatures ; by virtue of which divine influence , every thing is mov'd to seek the utmost perfection whereof it is capable . as for the purpose . the perfection of man , is the congruity of his actions , with his reason , which is nothing else but that which we call virtue . the perfection of beasts , is a degree lower ; they are mov'd only by a sensual impulse , toward what 's convenient for them , and when they have it , they rest. scrup. i can but laugh , when people are gravell'd , to see how they run to their impulses , and occult qualities ; which is but a more learned way of saying , [ they don't know what ] pray'e spare me a word ; what difference is there betwixt their impulse , and our choyce ? conf. pre'thee be quiet , unless thou hast a mind to have a toleration for thy dog. their impulse carries them on through a sensitive search , not any deliberative discourse : and no election neither at last ; but only the simple prosecution of a determinate appetite , without imagining any proportion , betwixt the means , and the end. scrup. but still we find that there is a proportion ; and the motion appears to us , according to the method of reason , and orderly proceeding from question to resolution . conf. is it reason think ye , that makes a dog follow his nose , and hunt for meat when hee 's hungry ? or will ye call it choyce , if he leaves a turfe for a bone ? in short ; hee 's mov'd by instinct , toward the end ; and sense carries him through the means . scrup. but why should the same process of means , and the same application of causes , be ascrib'd only to instinct in brutes , and to reason in man ? conf. you must take notice , that all natural operations , are regular and ordinate , by what means soever perform'd ; but it does not follow , because the method is according to reason , that therefore the instrument must be reasonable . but to mind our business . the law of self-preservation , is a law common to beasts with men ; but not of equal force : for their sovereign interest is life , ours is virtue ; and therefore your argument for defensive arms , upon pretext of that extremity , was but a brutish plea ; for , if the consideration of virtue be not above that of life , where lies the advantage of our reason ? scrup. but when the death is certain , and the virtue doubtfull , who shall decide the question ? conf. in a case abstracted from the tyes , and duties of religion , and government ; every mans reason sits as iudge upon his own life . as for instance ; you 're in the hands of thieves ; and upon this condition , either to take a false oath , or to lose your life . your conscience tells ye , you must rather perish . but if without violence to a superiour duty , you can preserve your self , you 're your own murderer , if you do not . thus far i think wee 're safe , and i suppose agreed ; that every individual is to govern himself by his natural conscience ; but when the several particulars come to be bundled up in one community , the case is otherwise . scrup. i am sorry to hear ye say that . why should not every man be govern'd by his own conscience , as well in consort , as in solitude ? or , will ye have it , that our duty to god ceases , in the act of becoming subjects to a civil magistrate ? conf. not so quick , and you shall have it . as to your conscience , you are as free now , as you were before ; but your body is no longer your own , after you 're once admitted a member of a society ; and there 's the difference . you were your own servant before , and now you are the king 's : ( for what is government , but the wisdom , resolve , and force of every particular , gather'd into one understanding , will , and body ? ) and this comes up to what i have already deliver'd ; that , whatsoever god has left indifferent , is the subject of humane power . scrup. but who shall be judg of what 's indifferent ? conf. wee 'l scan that , the very next thing we doe . you are already satisfi'd , that an authoris'd iudg is absolutely necessary , in order to the peace of church and state ; and to the ending of all publique differences : but we are not yet agreed upon our judges , or , if we were , yet in regard our judges are but men , and so may erre , [ infallibility being departed with christ and his apostles , in lieu of which living and infallible guides , god has in providence given us a plain and infallible rule ] it may withall be taken into thought , how far a private judge may be allow'd to opine against a publique , in case of a reluctant conscience , and ( in some sort ) to judge his iudg. scrup. you say very well ; for , place the ultimate decision where you will , 't is ( as you said before ) an infallible determination as to the strife , but not so , as to the truth ; and it comes to this at last , that every man , in some degree , re-judges his judge . if i am fully convinc'd , either that the command is sinfull in it self , or the opinion wicked ; i am neither to obey the one , nor to embrace the other ; as being ty'd up by the general obligation , of rather obeying , and believing god , then man. nay more ; if in obedience to the magistrate , i commit a sin against god ; and that ignorantly too ; that very act , in ignorance , is criminal , if i had the means of being better enform'd : for certainly , no humane respect , can justifie an offence against god ; now if i am bound to do nothing that is ill , i am likewise bound , before i do anything , to satisfie my self whether it be ill or no : for otherwise , i may swallow a false religion for a true , and be damn'd at last , for not minding what i did ; which i take to be proof sufficient , that no man is so implicitly oblig'd to rely upon other mens eyes , as totally to abandon the direction of his own ; or so unconditionally to swear obedience to other mens lawes , and perswasions , as to hold no intelligence at all , with that sacred law , and faithfull counsellor , which he carryes in his own bosom . conf. forgive me , if you imagine that i would have ye renounce your reason . no , but on the contrary , i would have ye to be guided , and concluded by 't , and only to obey for quiet 's sake , so far as you can possibly obey in conscience . scrup. what if a single person hitts that truth which a general council misses ? which will you have him follow ? truth , or authority ? conf. why truly both ; truth with his soul , and authority with his body : but so remote a possibility must not presume to bolster up the thinkings of a private spirit against the resolutions of authority ; yet for the very possibility's sake , wee 'l take that supposition likewise into our care , and word the sum of the whole matter plainly thus : the church says , ye may do ; and the law says , ye must do , that which your conscience says , you ought not to do. how will you reconcile your duty , and your conscience , in this case ? scrup. very well ; for i think it my duty to obey my conscience , upon this principle , that conscience is god's substitute over individuals . conf. keep to that ; and answer me again . is not the civil magistrate god's substitute too ? if he bee , how comes your conscience to take place of his authority ? they are both commission'd alike , and consequently , they are both to bee obey'd alike ; which is impossible , where their commands are inconsistent . scrup. the magistrate is a publique minister , and his commission does not reach to particular consciences . conf. 't is very right ; and on the other side , my friend scruple is a private person , and there 's as little reason to pretend that his opinion should operate upon a publique law. so that if i mistake ye not , wee are agreed thus far , that every particular is to look to one , and the king to the whole . scrup. i do not much oppose it . conf. if your brother zeal , would deal as candidly , with me now about the ecclesiastical power , as you have done in the civill , we might make short work of this question ; and i hope he will not deny , that the church is as well [ a ] authoris'd to teach , and instruct in all the external acts of worship , as [ b ] the magistrate is to compell to those external acts. ze. there is no doubt , but [ c ] the church , [ as the church ] has a ministerial power , ex officio , to define controversies according to the word of god ; and that [ d ] a synod ▪ lawfully conven'd , is a limited , ministerial , and bounded visible judg , and to be believed in , so far as they follow christ , the peremptory and supreme judg , speaking in his own word . conf. this will not do our business yet ; for , if a synod be but to be believed in so far as it followes christ ; &c. they that ought to be concluded by that act , are left the iudges of it , and the credit of the authority , rests upon the conscience , ( or , if you please , the phansy or humour ) of the believer : and so there 's no decision . ze. [ e ] the truth is , we are to believe truths determin'd by synods , to be infallible , and never again lyable to retraction or discussion ; nor because [ so sayes the synod ] but because [ so sayes the lord ▪ ] conf. still y' are short ; for 't is not in our power to disbelieve what we acknowledge to be a truth ; but that which is truth at the fountain , may become errour in the passage ; or at least appear so to me ; and what then ? ze. it must be look'd upon as an errour of the conscience , which is no discharge at all of your obedience : from which errour , you are to be reclaym'd , either by instruction , or censure . for , the people are oblig'd to [ obey those that are over them in the lord , who watch for their souls , as those who must give an accompt ; ] and not oblig'd to stand to , and obey the ministerial , and official judgement of the people , [ he that heareth you ( ministers of the gospel , not the people ) heareth mee , and he that despiseth you , despiseth mee . ] conf. then i find we shall shake hands . you two , gentlemen , are joyntly engag'd against the act for uniformity ; and yet ye cannot say , that it wants any thing to give it the full complement of a binding law : whether ye regard either the civil , or the ecclesiastical authority . here 's first , the judgment of the church duely conven'd , touching the meetness , and convenience of the rites and forms therein conteyn'd . you have next , the royal sanction , approving , and authorising those rites , and forms , and requiring your exact obedience to them. now so it is , that you can neither decline the authority of your iudges , nor the subjection of your dutyes ; what is it then that hinders your obedience ? scrup. that which to me is more then all the world ; it goes against my conscience . conf. only that point then , and no more upon this subject . that god is the iudg of the world ; that the church is the iudg of what properly concerns religion ; that the civil magistrate is the iudg of what concerns the publique peace ; and that every mans conscience is the iudg of what concerns his own soul ; is already clear'd : the remaining difficulty is this , how i am to behave my self in a case , where the law bids me do one thing , and my conscience , another . to take a true estimate of what 's before us , we must first ballance the two interests that meet in competition . there is in favour , and for the execution of the law , ( meaning that of uniformity , ) . the personal conscience , and . the political conscience of the king. there is likewise for the equity of it , the solemn and deliberate iudgment of the church : which is , effectually , the publique conscience ; and lastly , for the observance of it ▪ there is the duty of the subject , ( which , if it be withdrawn , does not only invalidate this particular act , but it loosens the sinews of sovereign authority ; and , which is more , it destroyes even a divine ordinance ; for , take away obedience , and government lapses into confusion . ) now for the counterpoize ; against this law , and thus supported , appears your naked conscience . nay , that 's the fairest on 't , it may be worse , and in truth , any thing that 's ill , under that name . scrup. but what 's the world to mee , in the scale against my soul ? conf. you have great reason sure , and 't is no more than every man may challenge : that is , to stand , or fall , to his own conscience : is that your principle ? scrup. yes , out of doubt ; 't is mine , and yours , and his , and any man's that's honest. conf. well , hold ye a little : your conscience will not down with this law , it seems ; and this law will as little down with your conscience . weigh now the good against the bad ; what if it stands ? what if it yields ? make the case worse then 't is ; as bad as bad may be , in your own favour , you cannot comply with the law ; and the law will not stoop to you. what follows upon 't ? scrup. the ruine of many godly people that desire to worship god according to his word . conf. that plea wrought little upon you from us ; but let that pass . what sort of ruine do ye mean ? ruine of liberty ? or estate ? ( for this law draws no bloud ) state your misfortunes i beseech ye . scrup. no man must hold a benefice , or teach a school , but upon terms of such subscription , or acknowledgement , as many an honest man would rather dye , then consent to : so that we are distrest , not only for our selves , as being depriv'd of the comfort of all spiritual , and heavenly freedomes ; but our poor infants are expos'd to be undone , wanting the means of a religious education . conf. if this be all , never trouble your selves ; for many an honest man has out-liv'd more than this comes to . in short , there 's a huge clamour ; but ( god knows ) with very little reason . some particulars will possibly suffer for want of a toleration : and who are they ; but ( most of them ) the actual enemies of the king ; and all of them , the profest opposers of the law ? if you would see the event of granting what you ask ; turn but your face toward — , and then blush , and repent . do so ; and thank his majesty for your heads , without troubling him with your consciences . beside ; you 're not aware , that in contesting with the law , you quarrel with your self : there 's your own vote against ye ; and all this muttering is no other then your factious will , wrangling with your political consent . yet still i say , stick to your conscience . scrup. your raillery is ill plac'd . conf. then 't is the better for my earnest : and 't is in very , very great earnest that i speak it . wee 'll come now to the push , and , without what 's , or why 's , lay down for granted , that there is a real distance betwixt this act , and your conscience . how will you divide your duty ? scrup. i 'll follow your advice , and stick to my conscience . conf. you do the better : now , change hands ; and phansie your self the supreme magistrate . he has a double conscience . one , that concerns himself , th' other his people . what his majesty's personal iudgement is , has been declar'd abundantly ; what his prudential iudgment may dispose him to , lies in his royal brest . but be that as heaven shall order it , here 's the partition of your rights . the king's prerogative has nothing to do with your conscience , and your conscience , has as little to do with his majesty's prerogative . the king is accomptable to god for the welfare of his people , and you are only accomptable to god for the good of your little particular . if you cannot obey the law ; do not : but abide the penalty . if the sovereign cannot relax the law , he 's as free to execute it . your conscience requires liberty ; and your governour 's conscience requires order , and the very ground of your demand , is the reason of his refusal . now why you should expect that your sovereign should bring down his conscience to yours , when you find , upon experiment , that you cannot perswade your own up to his , is to me a mystery . to conclude ; keep your self within your sphere , and where you cannot consent as a christian , submit as a subject . scrup. i cannot much deny the colour of your argument , and yet me thinks there 's so much to be said too , for toleration , that i 'm affraid you 'll leave me as you found me . conf. i 'll sterve thee first ; for thou shalt eat no meat till thou' rt my convert : wherefore go on , and do thy worst . sect . xv. the toleration , which the non-conformists desire , has neither ground nor president . scrup. 't is a most horrible kind of persecution . conf. why then government 's a most horrible ord'nance . for the punishment of evil-doers , is the one half of the magistrates commission : and what 's an evil-doer , but the transgressour of a law ? scrup. but , what do ye think , when the making of one law is the transgression of another ? conf. i think , such a law is better broken then kept . but remember the iudge , my friend ; and know , that laws are made for the community , not for particulars ; and good , or bad , they 're laws still . suppose them cruel ; y 'had as good say , the king 's a tyrant , as call them so ; for the law is no other than the king 's written will. now to your persecution again ; say what ye will , y' are safe . scrup. do not you take the persecuting party to be generally in the wrong ? conf. i was of that opinion three or four year agoe . but if it be so , the persecuted have the less reason to compleyn , having so comfortable a marque of being in the right . scrup. but what can justifie the very constitution of a persecuting law ? conf. you should rather have asked , what can justifie the toleration of a troublesome people ? the law stands fixt , and immovable ; and yet upon a guard too . you attaque that , and then ye cry , that ( or the magistrate ) hurts you : which is thereabout , as if you should throw your self upon the point of a sword , and then curse the cutler . scrup. christians ' will not persecute pagans for conscience , and yet they worry one another . conf. and in some cases they may have reason : for an infidel is less dangerous to the publique than an apostate . and beside : the one is but giving quarter to a fair , and open enemy ; the other is to take a snake into your bosome . the one , in fine , denies but your opinion ; the other , your authority . pray'e take notice by the by , that which you call persecution , i translate uniformity . scrup. how shall the magistrate distinguish , whom he should punish , and whom not ? conf. better a great deal , whom he should punish , than whom he should spare . they act ; and then he brings those actions to a rule , and that shews him whether they are streight , or crooked . scrup. how do you know but you may persecute god himself , in a right conscience ? conf. i tell ye , you are not punish'd for your thoughts , but for your actions : and you 'd inferr , that because ( for ought i know ) any man may be in the right , no man must therefore be presum'd to be in the wrong ; that were to grant a sanctuary to wickedness , and to confound sin with conscience . scrup. does not god command , that the tares should be let alone till the harvest ? conf. but if that were meant of practical impieties , how should governours be a terrour to evil-doers ; when all malefactors must be let alone till the day of judgement ? scrup. alas ! alas ! severity , at best , does but make hypocrites . conf. but , by your leave , forbearance does it much more : for those that come in for fear , never went off for conscience , and so were hypocrites before : and then you never consider those infinite swarms of seditious spirits that throw themselves into the tolerated party under the veile of sanctity . in fine ; 't is much more advisable to take away the liberty of some , then to grant a liberty to all. for betwixt those that are not wise , where is great hazard of errour ; and those that are not honest , where is great danger of design ( with your leave , gentlemen ) you 'll find well nigh the computation of your party . but why do i stand fencing in a case , where all that 's good for ought , even in the favour'd party , runs nigh an equal perill ? is any honest man the better for the last war ? ( i mean , save those that are forgiven ) scrup. then you presume a war. conf. or what is equal to 't ; a standing army , upon necessity to keep them quiet . for in this town , a toleration of religion is cousin-german to a licence for rebellion : and at the best , 't is but one ill that procreates another . scrup. and can you imagine that so many restless humours , and disturb'd consciences , will ever be quiet without it ? conf. you talk of conscience . shew me a conscience , make proof of a conscience . i 'll shew ye a thousand things like consciences : but alas ! narrowly look'd into , what are they but meere phansie , artifice , or delusion ? a company of people thus divided ; the one half of them deceive us , and the other half of them deceive themselves ; for 't is not what every man thinks , that is presently conscience ; but what every body thinks , in congruity with the word of god ; and of that word , the church is the best judge . if conscience alone be sufficient , the bible is superfluous : nay if conscience , joyn'd with the bible , be sufficient , what becomes of the apostles commission ; [ go , and teach all nations ? ] we shall undertake to teach them , whom our saviour has appointed to teach us . but this is a little beside our business ; for the stress of the question , in order to a toleration , does not bear so much upon this point , whether your opinions be true or false ; as whether safe or dangerous . there are a sort of people that reason by one principle , and act by another ; that begin with liberty of conscience , and end with the liberty of the subject : if you be of that number , there 's death in the pot , and no enduring of ye . further , liberty of conscience turns naturally into liberty of government , and therefore not to be endur'd ; especially in a monarchy ; and to say truth , 't is commonly the method of embroyling kingdoms ; and but the embryo of sedition . than which , nothing lyes opener to him that will only attend these two particulars : first , in those times , when there is generally the least care of religion , you shall observe commonly , the most talk of it ; and that too , among such as least understand it . if this impulse be not acted by conscience , 't is from a worse principle , and by no means to be encourag'd ; for the mass of the people is already in a distemper ; and those out-cryes and transports for toleration , are but the convulsions of a sick government . secondly , ecclesiastical and civil affairs are so twisted and enterwoven , that what party soever clayms a right of freedom to the former , may be fairly suspected to have a design likewise upon the latter : for the threds are so enterlayd , that both interests make , effectually , but one piece ; so that the state that allowes the people a freedom to choose their religion , is reasonably to expect that they will take a freedom likewise to choose their government . scrup. but why should a toleration do worse here than in holland ? conf. i would y 'had found a better instance . but , not to dispute how they came thither ; let it suffice , that where they are , a toleration would bring us . scrup. what do ye think of poland then ? conf. i think , that story speaks little in your favour , either in respect of their frequent seditions , or in regard of their prodigious and heretical opinions ; and yet they lye under the strongest obligation in nature to keep them quiet ; the turk being their neighbour ; which makes their case to be an agreement rather against a common enemy , than among themselves . but back to holland , theirs is no perfect toleration : for , ye see , in the case of arminius ; finding barnevelt in the head of the party , ( of whose intendments , the states were at that time jealous ) they would not upon any terms allow that freedom to the arminians , which they did to others ; but conven'd a synod , and exterminated the sect. there 's a great difference too betwixt the interest , and condition , of their ministers , and ours . theirs preach but upon good-behaviour ; they live upon the states-pay ; and upon the least colour of offence , they may be turn'd off at pleasure ; whereas our clergy have a free-hold in their benefices for term of life ; and if they be factiously dispos'd , they may evade the law to do a mischief , without making a forfeiture . consider next , that their case , was in some sort your own , only a common cause kept ye united . in fine , nothing but the fear of a common enemy can withhold a libertine-nation from falling foul upon it self . if ye would see what work peters , bridges sympson , and ward , made in holland , read bayly's dissuasive , pa. . and be asham'd of owning such a party . scrup. you see the fruit then of driving men to the extremity of flying their country for religion . conf. you see rather , in what they did abroad , what they would have done at home , if they had been tolerated ; and particularly , observe their proceedings in new-england , where they acted at liberty , and govern'd themselves , by their own lawes . bayly reports ( from people upon the place ) that of forty thousand persons , three parts of four , were not admitted to be in any church . if you have a mind to know any more concerning their heresies , their cruelty , their sedition , their hypocrisie , &c. look into his dissuasive again , pa. . scrup. but ye see the french allow a toleration . conf. they do so ; but not a toleration of several sorts of roman-catholiques ; neither do those of the religion admit of any sub-division among themselves ; nay , they have been often press'd to 't , and refus'd it . step into germany next , and see the deplorable effects of this phanatical persuasion there : but above all , where ever the beauteous discipline has set her holy foot , all other iudgements suffer a daily martyrdome . to conclude , toleration was that which queen elizabeth , in all her distresses , could never be perswaded to . firm to this resolution ( says sir francis bacon ) not to suffer the state of her kingdome to be ruin'd , under pretence of conscience and religion . yet shee conniv'd so long , and the unthankful faction made such use of her favours , that shee was forc't upon the rigour of a strict uniformity , to help her self , and that preserv'd her. to say no more , the sentence of the late king was given in the pulpit , though the blow was struck upon the scaffold . zea. not by the presbyterians , i hope . scrup. truly by them , if by any . conf. well gentlemen , while you debate that point , i 'le call for dinner . sect . xvi . at whose door lyes the bloud of king charles the martyr ? zea. and why by them , if by any , i beseech ye ? was peters a presbyterian ? scrup. yes surely was he , as much as marshall was an independent . zea. go to , let us spare names , and fall to the matter . scrup. the question is , upon whom the guilt of the kings bloud lyes ? you charge it upon us ; and i , upon you. [ the presbyterians spoyl'd him as a king , before others executed him as a private man ] [ have they not hunted and persu'd him with sword , and fire ? have they not formerly deny'd to treat with him , and their now recanting ministers preach't against him , as a reprobate incurable ; an enemy to god , and his church ? marqu'd for destruction ? &c. ] [ the covenanting-ministers , with their party clearly depos'd the king , when they acknowledg'd and submitted unto a power , as superiour unto his ; levy'd war against him , as against a traytor , rebel , and enemy to the kingdome , &c. ] [ the scots had proceeded so far as to imprison the kings person , and to sequester all his royal power , which is a temporary dethroning , and deposing . ] nay hear what some of your rabbies have not stuck to say in my iustification [ the removal of prelatical innovations , altar-genuflexions and cringings , with crossings , and all that popish trash and trumpery , countervails for the bloud and treasure shed and spent in these late distractions ] ( and this was in — . ) once more and you shall take your turn . [ this may serve to justifie the proceedings of this kingdome against the late king , who in a hostile way set himself to overthrow religion , parliaments , laws , and liberties . ] zea. i could afford you two , for one , and pay you in your own coyne . [ his capacity ( says parker ) was at westminster when his body was upon the scaffold at whitehall paying unto justice for his misgovernment , and tyranny ] [ think not to save your selves ( sayes one of your ministers to the commons , about a month before the king suffer'd ) think not to save your selves ( says he ) by an unrighteous saving them who are the lord's and the peoples known enemies , for certainly if ye act not like gods in this particular against men truly obnoxious to justice , they will be like devils against you — benhadad's life was once in ahab's hand , and he ventur'd god's displeasure to let him go . but see how bernhadad rewards him for it . fight neither with small nor great , but with the king of israel ] conf. come gentlemen , your dinner 's ready ; but first i charge ye , by that love ye bear to truth , and honesty ; deal freely with me ; what 's your opinion of your cause ? zea. wee 'll take time to consider of it . conf. and of your petition too , i beseech ye . go to ; i dare swear , there 's neither of ye will dye at stake for 't . scrup. but still i 'm where i was , as to the favouring of tender consciences . conf. and truly so am i ; where it is possible to separate the errour , from the person : but to permit a pullique inconvenience for the satisfaction of a private scruple , were ( upon very weak pretence ) to unhinge the law , and consequently to dissolve the government . det ille veniam facilè , cui veniâ est opus . sen. agamem . the end . the contents . introduction , pag. sect . . liberty of conscience stated , p. sect . . universal toleration unlawful , p. sect . . limited toleration , does not answer liberty of conscience , p. sect . . the non-conformists plea for toleration , upon reason of state , p. sect . . the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the merits of the party , p. sect . . the non-conformists plea for toleration , from the innocence of their practices and opinions , p. sect . . toleration causes confusion both in church and state , p. sect . . the danger of toleration in this iuncture , pag. ● sect . . arguments against toleration in respect of the party ihat desires it ; with animadversions upon a certain pamplet , entituled , a sermon preached at aldermanbury-church , decemb. . . p. sect . . arguments against toleration , in respect of the authority that is to grant it , p. sect . . the proper subject and extent of humane power , p. sect . . the bounds of toleration , with some reflections upon schism and scandal , p. sect . . the necessity of a final and unaccomptable judge , p. sect . . the three great iudges of mankind , are god , magistrates and conscience , p. sect . . the toleration , which the non-conformists desire , has neither ground , nor president , p. sect . . at whose door lies the bloud of king charles the martyr ? p. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e crooks reports pars . pa. . notes for div a -e interest of engl. pa . p. . . . . the non-conformists demand . rom. . . laud against fisher. pa. . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . joh. . , . ex. coll. p. . & . a ex. coll. p. . b p. . c p. . d p. . e p. . ex. coll. p. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . & . lord brook , alaham , pa. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . gal. . . a lex rex p. . b . c . d . e gillespy p. . engl. pop. cerem . f . kings declar. p. . p. ● . p. . p. . a sacred panegyrick . p. defence of the honourable sentence passed upon the late king. pa. . ex coll. pa. ▪ ex. coll. pa. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pa. . the non-conformists would have they know not what . letter to the assembl . ian. . . pag. . engl. deliv . pa. . fresh disput. pa. . tenure of kings pa. . ex. coll. pa. . remonstr . ex. coll. pa. . ☜ ibid. the false brother . a part. . pag. . b pag. . scobel acts , &c. c pag. . d pag. . e pag. . f pag. . a scobels acts , &c. pag. . b pag. . c pag. . d pag. . e pag. . f pag. . part . g pag. . h pag. . i pag. . k pag. . l pag. . m pag. . n pag. . o pag. . p pag. . q part. . pag. . r part. . pag. . ibid. the kirks testimony against toleration . pag. . scobell's acts pars. . pa. . useful case of conscience , pa. , & . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . ibid. a scob. acts pars. . pa. . b pa. . c pars. . pa. . d pa. . e pa. . kings declar. decemb. . . pa. . his majesty's speech to both houses , feb. . . pa. . ibid. pa. . pa. . ibid. pa. . pa. . pa. . pa. . pa. . pa. . ibid. pa. . pa. . ibid. pa. . ibid. sermon , iu● . . — . pag. , & . pa. . pa. . pa. , & . ☞ davila delle guer. civ . di f●an . lib. . ibid. lib. . strada de bello belgico lib. . the subject of humane power . eccles. polit ▪ lib. . pa. . a parker , goodwin , rutherford , milton , &c. b e. cal. noble-mans pattern , pa. . c e. c. phoenix , pa. , & . d rutherfords due right of presbyteryee , pa. . e ibid. p. . f mr. manion's smectymnuus , publisht since his majesties return , pa. . ☜ essay of atheism . e. calaus . serm. dec. . . pa. . pa. . psal. . v. . essay of unity of religion . numb . . . numb . . . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . a rom. . . b by the familists . c by the antinomians . d rutherford , lex . rex p. ● . a goodwins right and might , pa. . b lex rex pa. . c lex . rex pa. . d pa. . e pa. . f pa. . g pa. . h ibid. i ibid. k lex . rex pa. . l ibid. a right and might . b tenūre of kings , pa. . c defence of the kings sentence , p. . d english translation of the scottish declaration , pa. . e pa. . printed for francis tyton , who has published as much since the king came in . chillingsworths safe way , pa. . rom. . . chilling● . safe way , p. . a rutherfords due right of presbyt . p. . b ibid. p. . c ibid p . d ibid. p. . [ d ] ruth . free disp. pag. . ruth . free disp. pa. . resuscitatio pa. . common-wealth stated , p. . milton's tenur . p. . goodwin's defence of the king's sentence , p. . parker's scotlands holy war , p. . policy of princes , p. . robert douglass sermon in and in the phoenix , p. . english translat . p. . flesh expiring , &c. p. . an answer to a paper importing a petition of the archbishop of canterbury, and six other bishops, to his majesty, touching their not distributing and publishing the late declaration for liberty of conscience care, henry, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to a paper importing a petition of the archbishop of canterbury, and six other bishops, to his majesty, touching their not distributing and publishing the late declaration for liberty of conscience care, henry, - . p. printed by henry hills, printer to the kings most excellent majesty ..., london : . written by henry care. cf. nuc pre- . 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quam cum cognovisset pater , ait , tunica filii mei est , fera pessima comedit eum . gen. xxxvii . ver. , . with allowance . london , printed by henry hills , printer to the kings most excellent majesty , for his houshold and chappel ; and are to be sold at his printing-house on the ditch-side in black-friers . . an answer to a paper importing a petition of the archbishop of canterbury , and six other bishops , to his majesty , &c. not to amuse my reader with any reasons or excuse for this undertaking , let this suffice for both ; that several copies of this paper , instead of distributing his majesty's declaration for liberty of conscience having been privately dispers'd thro' most counties of england , i thought it every man's duty , and ( among the rest ) mine , to undeceive them who have not the same brains , but more honesty and loyalty , than those that sent it , and bestow some ink upon the tetter , that it spread no further . in order to which , and that every man may at once see the whole before him , and thereby come to the truer conclusion , i shall take my rise from the occasion of this paper , and thence proceed to the matter of it . now the occasion was thus . his majesty finding it had been the frequent endeavors of the four last reigns to reduce this kingdom to an exact conformity in religion , and how little the success had answer'd the design , but rather destroy'd trade , depopulated the country , and discourag'd strangers ; and being resolv'd to establish his government on such a foundation as might make his subjects happy , and unite them to him by inclination as well as duty , on the th of april , . issued his most gracious declaration for liberty of conscience , thereby declaring , that he will protect and maintain his archbishops , bishops , and clergy , and all other his subjects of the church of england , in the free exercise of their religion , and full enjoyment of their possessions and properties , as now established by law , without any molestation , &c. — that all execution of penal laws for matters ecclesiastical , as nonconformity , &c. shall be , and are thereby suspended . — that all his subjects have leave to meet and worship god in their own way , without disturbance . — and forasmuch as the benefit of the service of his subjects is by the law of nature inseparably annex'd to , and inherent in his royal person , and that no one for the future may be under any discouragement or disability , by reason of some oaths or tests usually administred ; that no such oaths or tests shall be hereafter required of them ; and that he would dispense with them , &c. and because several endeavors had been made , to abuse the easiness of the people , as if he might be persuaded out of what he had so solemnly declared , his majesty , as well to stop the mouth of gainsayers , as to shew his intentions were not changed since the said th of april , by a second declaration of the th of april last past , enforces and confirms the said former declaration , conjures his loving subjects to lay aside all private animosities and groundless jealousies , and to choose such members of parliament as may do their part to finish what he has begun , for the advantage of the monarchy over which god hath plac'd him , as being resolv'd to call a parliament that shall meet in november next at furthest . this declaration was forthwith printed , and by order of council required to be distributed , published , and read in the respective churches thro' the kingdom : and in that it was not enjoyn'd to be read in any the congregations thereby permitted , what greater evidence can there be of his majesty's real intentions to the church of england , when , however he suffer'd others , he own'd not yet any establish'd national church but the church of england ? upon this the ensuing paper was on the th of may following ( between the hours of nine and ten at night ) presented to his majesty by the six bishops the subscribers . to the king 's most excellent majesty . the humble petition of william archbishop of canterbury , and of divers of the suffragan bishops of the province , now present with him , in behalf of themselves , and others of their absent brethren , and of the clergy of their respective dioceses . humbly sheweth , that their great averseness they find in themselves to the distribution and publication in all their churches of your majesties late declaration for liberty of conscience , proceedeth neither from any want of duty and obedience to your majesty , our holy mother the church of england being both in her principles , and constant practices , unquestionably loyal , and having to her great honor been more than once publickly acknowledg'd to be so by your majesty ; nor yet from any want of due tenderness to dissenters : in relation to whom , they are willing to come to such a temper , as shall be thought fit , when that matter shall be consider'd and setled in parliament and convocation . but among many other considerations , from this especially , because the declaration is founded upon such a dispensing power , as has been often declar'd illegal , in parliament , and particularly in the years , , and in the beginning of your majesties reign , and is a matter of so great moment and consequence to the whole nation , both in church and state , that your petitioners cannot in prudence , honor , and conscience , so far make themselves parties to it , as the distribution of it all over the nation , and reading it , even in god's house , and in the time of his divine service must amount to , in common and reasonable construction . your petitioners therefore most humbly and earnestly beseech your majesty , that you will be graciously pleas'd not to insist upon the distribution and reading your majesties declaration . canterbury . st. asaph . bath and wells . chichester . peterborough . ely. bristol . and here also for methods sake , and before i come to the matter of it , i hold it requisite that i speak somewhat to the persons the subscribers , and the time of their presenting it . as to the first , the holy scripture styles bishops , the angels of their churches ; and by the common law of england the archibishop of canterbury is primus par angl. the bishops , lords ecclesiastical secular , — and sit in parliament jure episcopatus , which they hold per baroniam . — the statute ( pro clero ) calls them peers of the realm . — that of queen elizabeth , one of the greatest states of the realm . — they have jurisdiction in ecclesiastical causes , and are not bound to obey any mandate but the king's : and by reason of all this , presum'd to have a more than ordinary influence upon the people . our saviour calls his disciples , the salt , and light of the world. and why ? but that they should season others with their doctrin , and guide them by their example , into the way of peace . his name is , the prince of peace : his sermon on the mount was , the gospel of peace : the blessings in it , are to the poor in spirit , the meek , the merciful , the peace-makers , &c. his life was one continued practise of it ; and his last legacy to his disciples , was peace . he gave to caesar the things that were caesars ; and that tribute , which yet was the product of an absolute power , he not only paid it without disputing the authority , but commanded it to others : and tho' the imperial power after his death was of the same absoluteness , yet st. paul says not , the senate had declar'd it illegal , but calls it the ordinance of god , and enjoyns subjection to it . what the apostles in their time were , the same ever , and now challenge the governors of all churches ; next , and under kings , they are in the stead of god to the people ; and where they make a false step , what wonder if the unthinking people forget the precept , and take after the example ? they see nothing but ( sub imagine lusca ) by twilight , and conceive according to the colour of those rods are cast before them ; they hear a noise , but know not whence it cometh , or whether it goeth , and run away the cry , without so much as laying a nose to the ground for 't . what made the people set up adoniah against david's disposition of the crown to solomon ? abiathar the high priest was in the head of them . what made the nobles break the yoak ? the prophets had prophesi'd falsly , the priests applauded it with their hands , and a foolish people lov'd to have it so . or what made the jews who had so often acknowledg'd our savior , turn head against him , and crucifie him ? the chief priests , the scribes and elders had possess'd the people , that the romans would come , and take away their city . thus we see what influence great men have upon the heedless multitude ; and therefore how wary ought they to be , how they give them the least example of disobedience ; for it is seldom seen , but where the one disputes , the other cavils ; and where their leaders make but a shrug at the government , the people think it high time to be mending it : our own histories are as one example of it ; or if they run narrow , tacitus may be believ'd of his , erant in officio , qui mallent mandata . imperantium interpretari , quam exequi . there were ( saith he ) some in power , that were more for commenting , than executing the emperor's directions . nor are disputes or excuses of less danger ; for it is a kind of shaking off the yoke , and an essay of disobedience ; especially if in those disputings , they which are for the direction speak fearfully and tenderly , and those that are against it , audaciously . and if by such means a fire break out in the state , 't will want no fuel , when 't is kindled from the altar . and for the time of their presenting it , i shall consider it as it may respect the present circumstances of the kingdom , or that half scantling of time they gave his majesty to consider of their excuses . as to the former , the glut of reformers in edward the sixth's time was great , and the qualifications so indifferent , that the church of england has ever since labor'd under it , and the same elements that compounded her , half destroy'd her : for as the laws , not the doctrin , brought them first together , they no sooner found themselves streightned in the one , than they made it up with the other , and themselves somewhat in the broils , that were otherwise nothing in the peace of the state. these humors , during her , and king james's reign , lay fermenting in the body , but in his son 's broke out into a pestilence . the crown sell , the church follow'd it , and the most diligent enquirer might have sought england in her self , yet miss'd her ; till at last it pleas'd him , whose only it is to still the raging of the sea , to say to the madness of the people , huc usque , nee ultra . his late majesty king charles the second was restor'd ; and so little averse were the catholic lords to the church of england , that their votes , which otherwise might have kept them out , brought them once more into the house of peers : nor were they scarce warm in their seats , before the act of uniformity was pass'd , and driven with that violence , that it had like to have overturn'd all agen . the dissenters were not fit for employ , they had mony in their purses , and the world was wide enough : the catholic lords were less to be trusted , they cumber'd the ground , and 't was but fit they were down : there remain'd nothing but to cast out the heir , and then the inheritance would be the easier divided . and here also it pleas'd god to appear in the mount : he pluck'd him out of the deep waters , and set him on the throne of his ancestors : and as he came to the crown thro' the greatest of difficulties , he has been preserv'd in it by no less a providence . he stifl'd two serpents in the cradle of his empire , and in a three-years government conquer'd all example , in his own . and now , when our troubl'd waters had begun to settle again , what need of whistling up the winds for another storm ? when the wounds of the kingdom were almost clos'd , what charity was it to unbind them too soon , or under pretence of easing the patient , to set them bleeding afresh ? in a word , when the brands of our late rebellions lay smother'd in their almost forgotten embers , what prudence was it to rake them into another flame ? i see little of the dove in it , and am loth to say , too much of the serpent . and for that half scantling of time they gave his majesty to consider of their excuses , it seems here also , that the spirit of direction ( like baal in the kings ) was some way or other out of the way . the declaration was no new thing , it had been published the th of april , and his majesty had receiv'd the general acknowledgments of the kingdom for it ; which argu'd their satisfaction in it . the corn was in the ground , and now , if ever , was the time to sow tares ; and therefore , to prevent their choaking it , his majesty the th of april , ( which was one full year , and three weeks after ) enforces his first declaration , and commands it to be read in all churches within ten miles of london , on the th and th of may , and in all other the churches thro' the country , on the d and th of june following ; time enough ( one would think ) to have consider'd the matter , so as to have given the king some time to have advis'd . whereas on the contrary , they make no scruple of it , till the th of may , about at night , and then ( the th being a day appointed for hunting ) they present the paper before mention'd , as well knowing , that if his majesty had an inclination of countermanding his declaration , he was so straitned in time , that he could not do it , for it was to be read the day after . and what can be rationally interpreted from it , but that they had been all that while numbring the people , to see whither the party were strong enough ? and i am the rather inclin'd to it , for that since the time of the first declaration , the doctrin of non-resistance has not been so much in vogue , as it was formerly ; it would keep cold for another time , and to have pressed it now , who knows but the people might have believ'd it ? in short , nathan , zadoc , &c. had some pretence for opposing adoniah ; me thy servant , and zadoc the priest , he hath not called . so core , dathan , and abiram , were ecclesiastical princes , and thought they might have as much right to govern as moses : but when the church of england ( founded on the law of england ) acknowledges the king supreme in all causes ; themselves , infra aetatem , & in custodia domini regis ; when the king by his declaration has secur'd them in their religion , possessons and properties , and by vertue of his royal prerogative ( and for the quiet of the nation ) only indulg'd it to others , ( yet making no doubt of the parliaments concurrence in it ) is it just that their eye be evil , because the king 's is good ? or must the kingdom of heaven be confin'd to a party ? i never heard that disobedience was any qualification for it ; and therefore , if they will not enter themselves , why do they shut it against others , that would enter ? but perhaps the petition ( if yet there can be any reason for the breach of a duty ) may give us the reason of it . the title says , in behalf of themselves , and others of their absent brethren , and of the clergy of their respective dioceses . which makes good what i before hinted , that instead of distributing and publishing his majesty's declaration to be read in their respective dioceses , as in bounden duty to their supreme ordinary the king , they ought to have done ; and the clergy , in respect of their canonical obedience to them , must have obey'd under the pain of suspension , and in case of contumacy of deprivation : they had been feeling the pulse of their clergy , and finding little return from them , but speak , lord , for thy servant heareth , they concluded the flock would follow the shepherd ; and consequently , if the party were not strong enough , the multitude of the offenders might make it dispunishable ; whereas it has been seen , that a ferry-boat's taking in too many passengers , to increase the fare , has been often the occasion of sinking all together . and if the loyalty of the church of england receive any blemish by it , what can she say , but that she was wounded in the house of her friends ? for by the same reason that a metropolitan refuses the injunctions of his supreme ordinary the king , by the same reason may a diocesan refuse his metropolitan , and every inferior clergy man his diocesan ; and when the chain is once broken , you may dispose the links as you please . but the petition says , it was neither from any want of duty and obedience to his majesty . no ? then why was it not comply'd with ? shew me thy faith by thy works , saith st. james ; nor will it be possible to clear that son of disobedience , that said i go , but went not . a bishop ( as before ) is not bound to obey any mandate but the king 's ; which exception proves the rule , and that he is inexcusably oblig'd to obey the king's : for all bishops are subject to the imperial power , who is to be obey'd against the will of the bishop . mauritius the emperor ( says bishop taylor ) commanded st. gregory to hand an unlawful edict to the churches ; the bishop advis'd the prince , that what he went about was a sin , did what he could to have hinder'd it , and yet obey'd . it was the case of saul and samuel : the king desires samuel to joyn with him in the service of the lord ; he , with the liberty of a prophet , refus'd at first , but afterwards joyn'd with him : whereupon the said bishop in the same place further says , that even the vnlawful edicts of a lawful prince may be published by the clergy : how much more then those that are lawful ? and that this declaration is such , i shall shew presently , when i come to speak to their word illegal . in short , the archbishop of canterbury is ordinary of the court , and a bishop's private opinion may be warrant enough for him to speak when he is requir'd , but not to reprove a prince upon pretence of duty . our holy mother the church of england being both in her principles and constant practises unquestionably loyal . nor have they hitherto appear'd other ; and , if not religion , moral gratitude must have oblig'd them to it . all the bishoprics of england ( but sodor in man , which was instituted by pope gregory the fourth ) are of the foundation of the kings of england , and those in wales of the prince of wales : nor is it less than reason , that they look up to the hand that fed them ; or to whom more justly ought they have paid the tribute of obedience , than to him that took them from the flock , and sate them among princes ? in a word the late war was bellum episcopale ; and if king charles the first would have confirm'd the sale of church lands , he had sav'd himself : and why then do they reproach the king his son with their loyalty , when they instance the contrary in so small a trial of that obedience ; especially when , were the matter doubtful , the presumption were for obedience , and even unjust commands may be justly obey'd ? for as we fear the thing is unjust , so have we reason to fear the evil of disobedience , for we are sure that is evil ; and therefore we are to change the speculative doubt into a practical resolution , and of two doubts take the surest part , and that is to obey ; because , in such cases , reumfacit superiorem , iniquitas imperandi ; innocentem subditum , ordo serviendi : the evil ( if there be any ) is imputed to him that commands , not him that obeys , who is not his prince's judge , but servant ; and they that are under authority are to obey , not dispute ; nor shall any thing done by vertue thereof be said to be contra pacem . david commanded joab to put vriah in the head of the battle , to the end that he might fall by the enemy : joab obeys ; vriah is kill'd ; and yet not joab , who might have prevented it , but david , who commanded it , is charg'd with the murther . in a word , to pretend loyalty for a common principle , and yet make disputing and disobedience the practice of it ; what is it , but a drawing near with the mouth , when the heart is farthest from it ? the voice ( perhaps ) may be the voice of jacob , but the hands are the hands of esau . and having to her great honor been more than once publickly acknowledg'd to be so by your majesty . and do's his majesty less than acknowledge it in this declaration ? he has in the word of a king secur'd to them their religion , possessions and properties ; and why ? but to assure them , he repented not the character . and it was their interest , if not duty , to keep it up ; nay , the honor of their church depended on it , inasmuch as men value things , according to the present good or evil they do in the world ; and what advantage can that religion give us to another life , when it shall be found mischievous , or destructive to this ? they have ( i said ) the word of a king for their security ; but if they force him in his own defence , to secure against it , whom can they blame but themselves , who first made the challenge ? abiathar's service to david , was acknowledg'd by solomon , but when he once began to boggle , he forgave , but remov'd him . and our bishop bonner , tho' he got his bishoprick by thwarting the pope , yet he lost it agen by opposing the king. in a word , the holy spirit in the apocalyps , acknowledges the good works of the seven churches of asia , but bids some of them remember , whence they had fall'n , and repent , and do the first works , or he would remove their candlestick . nor yet from any want of due tenderness to dissenters . no ? why then have those penal laws been executed with so much rigor against them ? or why are they so averse from having them eas'd at present ? what brought them into this kingdom , i have touch'd before , and what turn'd them out again , and our trade with them , is demonstrable enough in the late protestants of france . i will not say but they might have been kept out at first ; but being settl'd , and embodied into a people , it may seem ill policy to remove any greater number to gratifie a lesser . it is not the nobility , or the gentry , that are the traders ; nor is it the gown that enriches more than particular persons : but the trade of the merchant , and the industry of the middle sort , that enriches a nation , and without which vena porta , let a kingdom have never so good limbs , it will have but empty veins . it was trade gave england its first credit abroad , and the manufacture at home found mater to it ; the one drein'd other kingdoms to water our own , and the other brought a ballance to it , in making the export come up to the import , and both together secur'd the dominion of the sea , and made the wealth of either indie a kind of accessary to it ; and all this carry'd on by the middle-sort of people . take our sea-ports , and the sea-man is but here and there a true church-of - england man : the merchant that employs him not much better at heart : the artisan thro' the kingdom has more than a spice of the disease ; and the body of the people not least infected with it . however , let them be quiet within themselves , and they dispute no authority ; but when they are uneasie , and mew'd up at home , what wonder if they change it for a freer air ? what makes us complain of the want of trade ? that our neighbors have gotten into our manufacture ? that our ships are not so well mann'd as formerly ? and the rents of lands fallen ? the reason is obvious : our selves have cut off our own hands . the merchant sits down with what he has , or turns builder ; the work-man carries his art with him ; the sea-man will have his opinion , as well as his pay ; and the lump of the people their consciences , or good-night landlord ! whereas , since his majesties late indulgence , trade is visibly encreased , building stops of it self , the kingdom begins to people agen , and the numerous addresses on this occasion , speak so general a satisfaction , that if such be the dawn , what may there not be expected from its full day ? and is there no equity , that the catholic also come in for a share , tho' the word dissenter seems not ( in proper speech ) to comprehend him ; for neither the law of england , or themselves , ever knew him by that name ? however , that some tenderness might be due to them , may be gather'd from the english litany . the church of england knows , the king professes the faith of rome ; and therefore when they beseech god , that it may please thee to keep and strengthen in the true worshiping of thee , in righteousness and holiness of life , they servant james our most gracious king and governor , what do they mean by it ? if after the way which some of them call idolatry , so worships he the god of his fathers , and they beseech god to keep and strengthen him in the true worshiping of him , they imply that worship to be a true worship ; and if they do not believe it , and yet use the words , how will they avoid a sin ? for whatever is not of faith , is sin. in a word , the king has made a general indulgence to all his subjects , the catholics fall under no particular exception , in it ; and therefore , the law of reason , as well as the law of the land , gives them the benefit of it . in relation to whom , they are willing to come to such a temper , as shall be thought fit , when that matter shall be consider'd and setled in parliament and convocation . what the temper hitherto has been , is but too sensible already , and what it is like to be for the future , may be guess'd by what 's past . the king ( who by the law of england is supremus in ecclesiasticis ) has thought fit , consider'd , and setled the matter ; and were a parliament now sitting , the king is sole judge , all the rest but advisers . the royal prerogative is a part of that law of the land , and by that authority , the king has setled it ; and therefore it becomes no man to be wiser than the law. nor is the advice of ignatius to his clergy forreign to it , nolite principes irritare ut acerbentur , ne ansam detis iis qui illam contra vos quaerunt . provoke not princes ( saith he ) to become bitter , lest ye hand an occasion to those that seek one against ye . but supposing it a matter only cognisable in parliament , why could not they have held till then , and in the mean time obey'd ? especially , when the king had by the same declaration , declar'd his resolution of calling a parliament in november next at farthest ; and our law says , extra parliamentum nulla petitio est grata , licet necessaria . no petition , how necessary soever , is grateful out of parliament . or how then could the convocation be concern'd in it ? for ( besides that the matter is meerly political , and singly respects the quiet of the kingdom ) if the king , who is supreme ordinary of all england , may by the ancient laws of this realm , and without parliament , make ordinances and constitutions for the government of the clergy , and deprive them for non-obedience thereunto , as has been more than once resolv'd , he may ; what have the convocation to be consulted in it ? especially when they have so often , in henry the third , edward the second , and edward the third's time , been commanded by the king 's writ , that as they love their baronies , ( which they hold of the king ) that they intermeddle with nothing that concern'd the king's laws of the land , his crown and dignity , his person , or his state , or the state of his council or kingdom : ( scituri pro certo quod si fecerint , rex inde se capiet ad baronias suas ) willing them to know for certain , that if they did , the king would seize their baronies . and by the statute of henry the eighth it is provided , that no canons or constitutions should be made , or put in execution by their authority , which were contrariant , or repugnant to the king's prerogative , the laws , customs , or statutes of the realm . in a word , the king has commanded , they have disobey'd , and by their ill example perverted others , and are yet very uncondescending ( for so the people word it ) themselves . and what would henry the eighth have done in such a case ; made use of his last argument , or thrown up the game for a few cross cards ? but among many other considerations , from this especially , because the declaration is founded upon such a dispensing power , as has been often declared illegal in parliament : and what were those considerations ? if a man should put an ill construction upon them , it may be said , their lordships never intended it ; and if they intended not to amuse the people , why did they not speak plain english , and specifie those considerations ? inasmuch as all petitions ought to contain certainty , and particularity , so as a direct answer may be given to them ; which could not be here : for whatever the king's answer might have been , somewhat more also might have been hook'd in from the words ; and alexander would have given it a short answer , ( aut ligna inferte , aut thus. ) either made it a chimney or an altar . but it seems it mov'd in sundry places , tho' the best scripture for this pretended illegality , be a declaration in parliament : their lordships instance nothing beyond their own time ; but i conceive it not impossible to bring them those of elder times , that have been so far from doubting the king's dispensing power , that they held it unquestionable . the stat. . h. . cap. . says , the king is contented to be concluded by the wise men of his realm , touching the estate of him and his realm ; saving always the king's liberty , i. e. his prerogative of varying from that law , as he should see cause . in the parliament-roll , h. . n. . the statutes against provisors are confirm'd ; and that the king shall not give any protection or grant against the execution of them : saving to the king his prerogative . and what was meant by that , may appear by a prior roll of the same year , n. . where the commons ' pray , that the statutes for the putting aliens out of the kingdom may be held and executed : the king consents , saving his prerogative , and that he dispense with such as he shall please . upon which the commons answer , that their intention was no other , and by the help of god never shall be . queen elizabeth had dispens'd with the ancient form and manner of investing and consecrating of bishops , and the parliament of the th of her reign , cap. . declares it lawful , as being done by her inherent prerogative . and when by the same prerogative or privilege , and royal authority , ( for so it is worded ) she dispens'd with the universities , &c. so popish a thing as latin prayers , and which their lordships the bishops still use in convocations , though it be directly contrary to the statute eliz. c. . for using the common-prayer in the vulgar tongue only : what is meant by it , but that the queen might lawfully dispense with that statute ? for if otherwise , there is no ecclesiastical person in the kingdom , but would have found the temporal censures too heavy for him , when it had been too late to have ask'd a parliamentary consideration , whether legal or not . and in particular in the years and , and in the beginning of your majesty's reign . as to the first of which , matter of fact stands thus : king charles the second , by his declaration from breda , had declar'd liberty for tender consciences , and that no man should be disquieted for difference in opinion in matters of religion , which did not disturb the peace of the kingdom . and in his declaration of the th of december following stood firm to it , but that no such bill had been yet offer'd him . while it thus lay , an act of indempnity , and one other of uniformity , were pass'd : the first regenerated themselves ; and the second , with the old ingredient , the growth of popery , was a probable way to exclude others . the th and th of february the commons come to some resolves against that , and dissenters ; which , with the reasons of them ( wherein yet they declare not the declaration illegal ) they present his majesty on the th in the banquetting house . the king complies ; and it was too soon after a rebellion to have done otherwise : however , if they had declar'd it illegal , it was but the single opinion of the commons , wherein the lords made no concurrence : and therefore to say , this dispensing power was in the parliament of declar'd illegal , when ( in common and reasonable construction ) a declaration in parliament is intended of both houses of parliament ; why may it not be as well urg'd , that those other votes and resolves of the commons , touching the bill of exclusion , were a legal declaration in parliament , when yet the lords swept their house of it ? then , for that other of , the king in the interval of parliament was engag'd in a war with the dutch ; and , to secure peace at home while he had war abroad , had put forth a declaration for indulgence to dissenters : the parliament meet , grant a supply of twelve hundred thirty eight thousand seven hundred and fifty thousand pounds ; and , without charging the declaration with illegality , pray his majesty to recall it . the argument prevail'd , and the king did it : which shews , that it was in the king's option not to have done it , or done it . and lastly , for that other in the beginning of his majesty's reign . that also ( without declaring it illegal ) was but some heats of the commons . there were at that time two open rebellions ; the king ( who is sole judge of the danger of the kingdom , and how to avoid it ) had granted commissions to certain persons not qualified according to the statute car. . the commons offer to bring in a bill for the indempnifying those persons : the king knew his own authority , and ended the dispute . and if any man doubts the legality of the king 's dispensing with that statute , a subsequent judgment ( in the case of sir edward hayles ) has determin'd the point ; and that the power of dispensing with penal laws , upon necessity , or urgent occasions , of which the king is sole judge , is an inseparable prerogative in the king , not given him in trust , or deriv'd from the people , but the ancient right of the crown , innate in the king , and unalterable by them . and that this has been the ancient judgment of the judges from time to time , i shall meet with the occasion of shewing it in the next paragraph . and is a matter of so great moment and consequence to the whole nation , both in church and state. and so indubitably is it , that nothing can be more : for the best of laws being but good intentions , if a prince should be ty'd up to such unalterable decrees , as in no case whatever he might vary from them , it might so happen , that what at one time was intended for the good of church and state , may at another prove the destruction of both , if not as timely prevented . the present case is a pregnant instance of it : one would have thought , that the frequent endeavors of the four last reigns , for the reducing this kingdom to an exact conformity in religion , might have answerd the design ; but ( if his majesty in his declaration had not told us his thoughts of it ) our own experience might have taught us , the effects thereof have in a manner brought the kingdom to nothing : and what should the king have done in this case ; sate still , and expected a miracle , or interpos'd his royal authority for the saving it ? the question answers it self : and if the power of dispensing with penal laws , were not inseparably and unalterably in him ; how could he have done it ? what elder parliaments have declar'd in it , i have already shewn ; and that the judges successively have gone with it , is , or may be , obvious to every man. such was the resolution of all the justices in the exchequer-chamber , r. . . and that the king might grant license , against a penal statute . and what is that , but a dispensing with it ? in like manner , by all the justices in the same place , h. . . that the king may grant a non obstante to a penal statute , tho' the statute say , such non obstante shall be meerly void ; and such was the case there . — the h. . . to the same purpose . — allow'd for good law. plowd . com. . — confirm'd by sir edward coke , coke . — and coke , . and lastly , by a judgment in his now majesty's reign , of which before . and if so necessary a part of the government , so solemnly determin'd by parliaments and judges , is fit to be slighted , or not obey'd , which amounts to the same , i leave it to every man. that your petitioners cannot in prudence , honor , and conscience , so far make themselves parties to it , as the distribution of it all over the nation , and reading it even in god's house , and in the time of his divine service , must amount to in common and reasonable construction . and on the other hand i conceive , that both in prudence , honor , and conscience , they were highly oblig'd to it : for what is prudence , but the active faculty of the mind , directing actions morally good to their immediate ends ? that this declaration is morally good appears by the purport of it ; and that is , his majesty's desire of establishing his government on such a foundation , as may make his subjects happy , and unite them to him by inclination as well as duty . and what greater prudence could there have been , than by their lordships distributing that declaration as enjoyn'd to them , and by their pastoral authority requiring it to be read in all churches , &c. to have directed it to its immediate ends , which were the establishing the government , and making the subjects happy ? or , if wisdom must come in for a share , the offices of that are election and ordination ; the choice of right means for , and ordering them aright to their end. the right means of quieting the nation was before them ; and i think it no question , whether their lordship 's not distributing it , has order'd it aright to the end . the king had enjoyn'd it to be publish'd , and wisdom in this case ( like scripture ) is not of private interpretation , but lies in him that has the power of commanding , not in him whom conscience binds to obey . in a word , if obedience in subjects is the prince's strength , and their own security , what prudence or wisdom could it be , by weakning the power of commanding , to lessen their own security ? then for honor and conscience , tho' in this place , they seem to mean the same thing , and may be both resolv'd into nil conscire sibi , — yet i 'll take them severally . and how stands it with the honor of the church of england , both in principles , and constant practises , unquestionably loyal , and to her great honor , more than once so acknowledg'd by his majesty , to start aside in this day of her trial ? both the last armagh's , usher , and bramhal ; bishop sanderson , bishop morley , &c. have all along by their doctrin , and practices , beat down that other , of resisting princes , in that the church of england held no such custom : nor have the most eminent of her clergy , dr. sherlock , dr. scott , and others , until this last uncomplying , compliance , taken any other measures . and ought not their practise now , to have made good their principles ? or that advice of the present bishop of ely to the church of england , to have been consider'd , and follow'd ? let her be thankful ( saith he ) to god , for the blessings she hath , and unto the king , under whom they will be continu'd to her ; and take heed of overturning , or undermining the fabrick , because she cannot have the room that she would choose in it . and what greater assay to it can there be , than disobedience ? inasmuch as he that thinks his prince ought not to be obey'd , will from one thing to another , come at last to think him not fit to be king. nor must the anniversary of the now bishop of chester , be past in silence . tho' the king ( saith he ) should not please , or humor us ; tho' he rend off the mantle from our bodies , ( as saul did from samuel ) nay tho' he should sentence us to death ( of which , blessed be god and the king , there is no danger ) yet if we are living members of the church of england , we must neither open our mouths , or lift our hands against him , but honor him before the elders , and people of israel . and having instanc'd in the examples of the prophets , our saviour , his disciples , and christian bishops under heathen persecutors , and demanded , whether ever the sanhedrim question'd their kings ? nor must we ( saith he ) ask our prince , why he governs us otherwise , than we please to be govern'd our selves : we must neither call him to account for his religion , nor question his policy , in civil matters ; for he is made our king by god's law , of which the law of the land is only declarative . in a word , this and the like has been the doctrin of the church of england , and when on that ground , his majesty has more than once acknowledg'd her loyalty , who in honor more oblig'd to make it good , than those that serve at her altar ? unless ( perhaps ) they coin a distinction to salve it , and that the church may be of one opinion , and the church-men of another . and then in conscience , their obligation was higher ; for besides what i said before , that the people are apter to follow example than precept , every man ( and even their lordships with the rest ) is party , and privy , to an act of parliament , and bound in conscience , to the observance of it : nor is there either bishop , or clergy-man in the church of england , who has not subscrib'd to the lawfulness of this declaration's being read in the church , during the time of divine service . as thus : every clergy-man at the time of his institution , subscribes ( in a a book kept for that purpose ) that the king's majesty under god , is the only supreme governor of this realm : and that the book of common-prayer containeth nothing in it , contrary to the word of god. now , the book of common-prayer , as it is now used in and thro' the church of england , is enacted by authority of parliament , to be read in such order and form , as is mentioned in the said book : and the rubrick , i. e. the order and form , how those prayers shall be read , is to all intents and purposes , as much enacted as the book its self ; and in that rubrick , next after the nicene creed ( in the communion service ) follow these words : then shall the curate declare ●nto the people what holy-days , or fasting-days are in the week following to be observed , &c. and nothing shall be proclaimed or published in the church , during the time of divine service , but by the minister ; nor by him anything , but what is prescribed by the rules of this book , or enjoyned by the king , or by the ordinary of the place . now when all clergy-men have subscribed , that the book of common-prayer , containeth nothing in it , contrary to the word of god ; and that the king has enjoyned , that his declaration be read in all churches , during the time of divine service ; these subscriptions of theirs ( besides the authority of king and parliament ) conclude themselves , from offering any thing against the lawfulness of reading it , as it had been enjoyn'd to them , and the rubrick , requir'd of them . and being so , what excuse can there be , why they did not read it ? or suppose that clause , or enjoyned by the king , had not been in the rubrick , ( as it was first inserted in this act of uniformity , and every man that was of the convocation of , knows by whom : ) were none of the king's declarations ever read in churches ( and that , during the time of divine service ) before that time ? i think there were , and ( amongst many others ) that of the declaration for sports , for one . or that the ordinary of the place had enjoyn'd the contrary , ought not the king , the supreme ordinary , and as their subscriptions farther acknowledge , the supreme governor of this realm under god , to have been first obey'd ? i think he ought ; for the authority of the greater , supersedes the lesser ; nor is there any power in his dominions , but what is deriv'd from him . and whatever station the king has given them in the church , it is not to be presum'd , he thereby lock'd out himself . nor must a remark of the said bishop of chester , in his sermon before mention'd , be forgotten here : the jews ( saith he ) say , that the keys of the temple were not hung at the high priest's girdle , but laid every night under solomon ' s pillow , as belonging to his charge . the moral of it holds true ; for when a prince shall have little authority in the church , it is not to be expected he should have much better in the state. and lastly , for their lordships so far making themselves parties to it , as the distribution and reading of it , &c. must amount to , in common and reasonable construction . a clergy-man's meerly reading the common prayer in his church , is no giving his assent to it , unless after his so reading it , he shall publickly , and openly , before the congregation there assembled , declare his unfeigned assent , and consent , to all and every thing contained , and prescribed in and by the said book , entituled , the book of common-prayer , &c. which necessarily implies , that neither the distributing , nor reading it , &c. can in common and reasonable construction amount , to the making the publisher , or reader of it , a party to it . the apostle says , submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake . and upon this , the bishop of hereford grounds his judgment , for the reading this declaration . the king ( saith he ) expresly commanding it to be read in all churches , without requiring him that reads it , to declare either his consent , assent , allowing , or liking it ; i would gladly know how this is contrary to the word of god ? shew it me . or , if , as it is said , this dispensing power be contrary to the laws of the land , as is declared in the parliament , and , is it contrary to the law of god ? shew it me . ( pag. , . ) or that to read any thing in the house of god , is declaring my consent to it ? ( pag. . ) no certainly ; ( pag. . ) for in the reading this declaration there is no doctrin taught , only matter of fact declared , and perchance , to try my obedience . ( pag. . ) and done out of pure obedience to my king , upon god's command , and to so good an end , as the preserving truth and peace among us . which if we lose on this occasion , they will have much to answer for who are the authors of it . ( pag. . ) besides whom , there are several other bishops of the church of england , who have obey'd his majesty's commands in it , albeit they may not have so publickly declar'd it . and having said so much to the matter of the paper , i think i may well pass the prayer of it , that his majesty will be graciously pleas'd not to insist upon the distribution , and reading that declaration . and therefore upon the whole , if this declaration had not been thought fit to have been distributed , as enjoyn'd , less ought the said paper to have been dispersed privately , and by such previous disposition , stoll'n the form of the design into the matter it was to work on : and considering the evils we had pass'd , and that the kingdom wanted a lenitive , not a corrosive , least of all ought the people on the wall to have been har'd with new jealousies : the people ( i say ) who need more a ballance than a fly , somewhat to moderate , not multiply their motion . in short , trust is the sinew of society , which is the right object of true policy ; and distrust , a disbanding of it . the king , as he has more than once acknowledg'd the church of england ' s loyalty , has as often declar'd , that he will protect , and maintain , his archbishops , bishops , and clergy , and all other his subjects of the church of england , in the free exercise of their religion , as by law established : and in the quiet , and full enjoyment of all their possessions , without any molestation or disturbance whatsoever . the king has said it , and shall he not perform it ? he has pledg'd his royal word , and shall we doubt the truth of it ? it is not with god , that he should lye ; nor with his vicegerent , that he should be chang'd . and therefore , let us ( as his majesty by this his declaration conjures us ) lay aside all private animosities , and groundless jealousies : let us fear god , and honor the king , and not discover the falsness of our own hearts , by distrusting our prince's . in a word , let every man in his station , contribute ( his mite ) to the peace , and greatness of his country : let him shew his love to god , in his obedience to his prince : and let no man , by setting up conscience against duty , run the hazard of dashing the first table against the second . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e inst . . idem . e. . c. . eliz. c. . . inst . . lord bacon's essay of subjection . glan . l. . c. . tract . l. . . ductor dub . fol. . heylin's life of a. b. laud. . id. ductor dub. . inst . . inst . , & . id. duct . dub. f. , & . coke . coke . e. . . stan. pl. cor. . inst . . epist . . inst . . crook jac. . moore . inst . . h. . c. . serj. rolle's abridg. part . ti ' . prerog . . id. tit. prerog . trin. . jac. . in b. r. his coronation sermon , pag. . his sermon on that occasion , p. , . ecclesiastical canons ●● . art. . pag. . vid. act of uniformity before every common-prayer-book . par. , . his late discourse on this occasion . a fannaticks letter sent out of the dungeon of the gate-house prison of vvestminster: to all his brethren in the three nations at liberty; and also in the several goales and dungeons therein, that are under all the principles of the doctrines of christ, heb. . i, . by henry adis, a baptized believer, undergoing the name of a free-willer; and also most ignomineously by the tongue of infamy, called a fannatick, or a mad man. adis, henry. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a fannaticks letter sent out of the dungeon of the gate-house prison of vvestminster: to all his brethren in the three nations at liberty; and also in the several goales and dungeons therein, that are under all the principles of the doctrines of christ, heb. . i, . by henry adis, a baptized believer, undergoing the name of a free-willer; and also most ignomineously by the tongue of infamy, called a fannatick, or a mad man. adis, henry. p. printed by s. dover for the author, and are to be sold at book-sellers shops, london : . annotation on thomason copy: "march. .". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng dissenters, religious -- england -- early works to . religion and politics -- england -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a fannaticks letter sent out of the dungeon of the gate-house prison of vvestminster: to all his brethren in the three nations at liberty;: adis, henry. b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a fannaticks letter sent out of the dungeon of the gate-house prison of vvestminster : to all his brethren in the three nations at liberty ; and also in the several goales and dungeons therein , that are under all the principles of the doctrines of christ , heb. . , . by henry adis , a baptized believer , undergoing the name of a free-willer ; and also most ignomineously by the tongue of infamy , called a fannatick , or a mad man . gal. . . stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith christ hath made you free , and be not entangled again with the yoak of bondage . london , printed by s. dover for the author , and are to be sold at book-sellers shops , . a fannaticks letter sent out of the dungeon of the gate-house prison of vvestminster , &c. dearly and well beloved brethren in the lord , it is the desire of my soul , that grace , mercy , truth , peace , love , gentlenesse , goodnesse , faith , meeknesse and temperance , to you be multiplyed , with all long-suffering and knowledge . brethren , when i enter into a serious consideration of what the flock of god gone before endured in their dayes , not onely by cruel mockings , deridings , and evil speakings , but also by whipings , imprisonments , buffettings , banishments , and painful deaths , patiently , chearfully , readily and willingly ; and all this that they might keep a good conscience towards god , in order to their producing his glory , and their own eternal good . i say , the serious consideration of this , is that which doth much encourage me , notwithstanding the many difficulties of this our day , to take up a resolution , to go on in my christian progresse by divine assistance , and not to look back , lest with lots wife , i become a standing monument of gods everlasting displeasure ; and therefore , these are earnestly to desire you also in gods fear , to persevere in that path , and to run swiftly towards perfection , in that race you have already made some progress in , beginning at heb. . , . and so chearfully to passe thorow this valley of tears ; for he that runneth , obtaineth not the crown unlesse he strive lawfully , tim. ▪ . let us therefore so run that we may obtain , cor. . . let us labour hard to get up sions hill , having a single eye to gods glory ; in which narrow way , you must expect the hedges to be lined on both sides , with multitudes of amalakites , shooting out their arrows , even bitter words , whose teeth are as sharp as arrows , and their tongue a sharp sword , psalm . . . who whet their tongue like a sword , and bend their bow to shoot those arrows , even bitter words , psalm . . . who are ready to say with those in jer. . . come and let us smite him with the tongue , and let us not give heed to any of his words ; to whom let me beg you in gods fear ; as you tender the honour of the gospel , and the reputation of your master ; king jesus , whom ( jew-like ) they so mock , scoff and jeer at , not to render to them evil for evil , nor reviling for reviling ; but contrariwise blesse , knowing that you are thereunto called , that ye should inherit the blessing ; for he that will love life and see good dayes , let him refrain his tongue from evil , and his lips that they speak no guile ; let him eschew evil , and do good , let him seek peace and ensue it ; for the eyes of the lord are over the righteous , and his ears are open unto their prayers ; but the face of the lord is against them that do evil ; and who is he that will harm you , if ye be followers of that which is good ? and if ye suffer for righteousnesse sake , happy are ye ; and be not affraid of their terror , neither be troubled , but sanctifie the ( lord in your hearts , and be ready alwayes to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you , with meeknesse and fear , having a good conscience ; that whereas they speak evil of you as evil doers , they may be ashamed , when they shall falsly accuse your good conversation in christ ; for it is better if the will of god be so , that ye suffer for well doing , then for evil doing ; for christ also hath suffered for sin●●●… the just for the unjust , psalm . . . &c. therefore let us look unto jesus the author and finisher of our faith , who for the joy that was set before him , endured the crosse , and despised the shame , heb. . . who is the captain of our salvation , and was made perfect through sufferings , heb. . . who was led as a lamb to the slaughter , and as a sheep before the shearer was dumb , so opened he not his mouth , acts . . for even hereunto were ye called , because christ also suffered for us , leaving us an example that ye should follow his steps , who did no sin , neither was guile found in his mouth ; who when he was reviled , reviled not again , when he suffered , he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously , pet. . , , . therefore seeing we have taken his yoak upon us , let us learn of him who is lowly and meek ; and we shall find rest for our souls , mat. . . and let us not think to be above our master , for if they have called the master of the house belzebub , how much more them of his houshold ? and if they have so done to the green tree , what will they not do to the dry tree ? it is enough for the disciple to be as his master , and the servant as his lord ; and therefore let us consider what legacy our master hath left us , who saith , that in the world we shall have tribulation ; for behold saith he , i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves , be ye therefore wise as serpents , but harmlesse as doves ; but beware of men , for they will deliver you up to the counsels , — and they will scourge you in their synagogues , and ye shall be brought before governours , and kings , for my names sake , for a testimony against them and the gentiles ; and ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake , mat. . . . . yea , the time will come , that if they shall kill you , they will think they do god good service ; and christ hath spoken these things , that we should not be offended , john . . therefore in our patience let us possesse our souls ; and blessed is he that shall not be offended in him ; for our light afflictions which are but for a moment , worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory ; whilest we look on the things which are not seen , and not on the things that are seen , for the things that are seen are temporal , but the things that are not seen , they eternal , cor. . . and although no chastening at the present seemeth joyous but grievous , yet neverthelesse afterwards it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness , unto them that are exercised thereby , heb. . . and were it not ( that to the rejoycing of my soul ) i heard that your joy is full , as well in newgate , white-lyon , maydstone , alisbury , and in all other prison-holes , as it is super-abounding in the dark gate-house dungeon with us ; i should then have desired that the hands hanging down , and the feeble knees should have been held up and strengthened ; but seeing i hear that faith is every where upon the wing , and that the omni-present god is pleased to visit us in all our prison-holes , with the incomings of his comforting spirit , even to joy unspeakable and full of glory : i shall conclude with our apostle , and say , and that upon a good account to , that by the good hand of our god upon us , i see it is given unto us in the behalf of christ , not onely to believe , but also to suffer for his name sake ; and herein we have cause to joy and rejoyce in the lord , who by the incomings of his spirit , hath supported both you and us in this tryal , so as that we can with his people of old , joy in tribulations , knowing that tribulations worketh patience , and patience experience , and experience hope , and hope maketh not ashamed , because the love of god is spread abroad in our hearts . so that we can with our apostle upon a good account say , that , though we are troubled on every side , yet not destressed , we are perplexed , yet not in despair , persecuted but not forsaken , cast down but not destroyed , alwayes bearing about in our body the dying of the lord jesus christ ; for we which live , are alwayes delivered unto death for jesus sake ; and therefore let every soul of us , in singlenesse of heart , eye gods glory in our present sufferings , and take up that good resolution of our aged and faithful brother paul , acts . . and say ( if thereto called ) that we are willing in the behalf of christ , not onely to be bound and lie in bonds , but also to die for his name sake . and this is that which is the rejoycing of my soul , that in the midst of these sufferings , both by you and us , i cannot hear of one man of our society , that is found an evil doer in what is charged upon us , as to plotting , contriving or undermining , or in any act of hostility in disturbing the peace of the nation ; for herein we can safely and upon a good account appeal to our god , the searcher of all hearts , and can with confidence and boldnesse , in the faithfulnesse of our souls , to the faces of the greatest of men , affirm and say , we are not guilty of what we are charged withal , and that we are oppressed in judgements , and are injuriously torn from our callings and families , and most barbarously penned up in prison-holes ; and my self & some others of our society , thrust into a damp , dark dirty dungeon , without either light or air , bed or bedding , first nine , and after twelve of us together , scarce able to lie down one by another ; being thus used , not for what we have done , but for what we are ; nor for what is found in our houses , as to arms or ammunition : and that you may be satisfied in a measure with the truth of what my sufferings are and have been in this juncture of time , in this our cruel leading into captivity ; i shall lay down something upon the account of report , & also upon the account of action . and as for false rumors raised upon me , i was reported to say , that i hoped to wash my hands in the kings blood ; this was raised by one hopping jane , commonly so called , a notorious drunken swearing person , whose common conversation is , to go ranting , raving and singing like a bedlam along the streets , ( to the admiration of those that know her not ) pulling and haling gentlemen as they go along the streets , to get money of them , to buy ale to drink the kings health ; and this was reported that i should say at my shop door , on wednesday morning , the ninth day of the eleventh moneth , vulgarly called january , . when i was not down my stairs in the shop all that morning , as i proved by three witnesses to the french papish fencer , that carried me away , for saying these words after he , and they that were with him , had searched my house for arms ; the which words , or any other tending to that , or any such horrid and wicked tendancy , god the searcher of all hearts knows , i never entertained so much as a thought of in the least ; and for my tongue to utter that which never came into my thoughts , seemeth to me a very strange thing , the which she her self hath since said to my wife , before some that heard her words , as to that particular , was not so . it is also further reported by others far and near , that i my self , that said wednesday night , had killed one of the constables watch-men ; when i was in custody as is aforesaid , by nine of the clock in the morning , and was that night with some forty more upon the main guard at white-hall , and was sent on thursday morning to the gate-house prison dungeon , where i now am . and further , it is commonly reported , that in my house when it was searched , there were several arms and ammunition found , with barrels of gun-powder ; and that there was a barrel of white gun-powder left at one mr. horses house in stannop-street , a coach-maker , to be conveyed to me ; when in truth i had no arms at all , nor any manner of powder ; but was so far from any such thing , as that i can boldly affirm it in the presence of god , that i have not had , nor carried so much as a defensive weapon this fifteen or sixteen years . and in . i declared against the acting with the carnal weapon , and pleaded the unlawfulnesse thereof , as by the said declaration , in the end of my fannatick's mite cast into the kings treasury , is evident . more i might say as to matter of report , but i shall forbear and let you know , that my house was searched nine several times , twice before i was taken into custody , and seven times after i was in custody , and six times of that seven in one night , and by several parties ; so that i may say as to the malice of men , i am set up as their mark to shoot at , although my actings towards them are innocent and harmless . for i know nothing on my part as a cause of it , unless in my fannaticks mite , my bearing my testimony against the abominations of the times , in saying what i say therein , as to the madness of the rude multitude ; and in the revived and daily continued acts of folly in stage-playes , and the many bitter oaths and execrations uttered by unlawful game-players , & in the abominations of dammy and debauch'd bawdy-houses , the foul detestable shame of a christian kingdom ; or in what i say in page , , . of that mite , in that use of examination to the nation , considered as a nation ; or at my down-right and single-hearted conclusion of my epistle therein to the king dedicated ; or in my after-writing to the king , in that i give him some reasons , why i could neither swear nor fight for him : if these , or any thing of this kind , causeth them thus to become mine enemy , because i tell them and him the truth ; if it be this that renders me vile in their eyes , i must let them know in the words and resolution of david , and say , if this be to be vile , i according to the ability received , shall be yet more vile . but i shall proceed to discover to you what was acted , as to searching my house , and by what manner of persons , that so you may be sensible , whither we are posting , if they were legally commissionated . the second time that my house was searched , was by one john gosling , a known papist , and servant to mr. hillyard an apothecary in long-aker , who beyond his commission ( if he had one ) carried away ( he and his party and confederacy , captain wharton and others ) near of my fannaticks mite , and got two shillings in money of me , pretending it for the souldiers . and about a week after , captain wharton and another of them , came and took forcibly out of my house , two more of my books , demanding more ; which he would have had , had there been any ready . and the next time that my house was searched , was when i was taken into custody , and that was by mounseir lawrence an italian , a papist , who keepeth a fencing school in stānnop-street . the next was by mounseir de la mane , a french-man , and a known papist , living in long-aker , a gilt-leather man . the next time , or another time , by one mr. kirbey , a cloth-drawer , in our own street ; a known papist also . and another time by anthony welch , a limping porter , living in mr. roberd's celler , in drury-lane , near russel-street ; whose horrid oaths , execrations and debauch'd actions , both to us , to mris. whitaker , richard day , and others , do bespeak him to be no better than an athiest . and as if all these actions and reports , were not enough to render me and you sufficiently odious to the view of the world , the weekly news-monger , falsly , injuriously , and most ignomineously in his weekly pamphlet , hath branded us with that most stigmatical title of traytors . to whom i would give this christian caution , that for the time to come , he take a special care of venting and inventing lies , lest the lord christ say one day to him , as once he said to some of abrahams fleshly seed , john . . ye are of your father the devil , and the works of your father ye will do ; he was a murtherer from the beginning , and abode not in the truth , because there is no truth in him ; when he speaketh a lie , he speaketh of his own , for he is a lyar , and the father of it ; and therefore i would have him further to consider the shame of it , for as the lip of truth shall be established for ever , so the lying lip is but for a moment , prov. . . and as a righteous man hateth lying , so a wicked man is loathsome , and cometh to shame , prov. . . and if we may believe the wisest of men , he telleth us , that he that hideth hatred with lying lips , and he that uttereth a slander , is a fool , prov. . . and farther , i would have him consider the great danger of it ; for first , lying lips are an abomination to the lord , but they that deal truly , are his delight , prov. . . secondly , these six things the lord hateth , yea , seven are an abomination unto him , a proud look , a lying tongue , and hands that shed innocent blood , an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations , feet that be swift in running to mischief , a false witnesse that speaketh lies , and him that soweth discord amongst brethren , proverbs . . thirdly , it will exclude him heavens glory ; for without are dogs , and sorcerers , and whoremongers , and murderers , and idolaters ; and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie , rev. . . for there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth , neither whatsoever worketh abomination , or maketh a lie , but they which are written in the lambs book of life , rev. . . but the fearful , and unbelieving , and the abominable , and murtherers , and whoremongers , and sorcerers , and idolaters , and all lyars , shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death , rev. . . but leaving the man to consider of his wicked action , in suffering his pen to run to that excesse , that causeth men to raise false reports upon the innocent ; i shall in love to his soul , earnestly desire him to set himself upon the effectual work of repentance , that so he may make his peace before he go hence and be no more ; that when time shall be no more , he may then have a well-being with him , who gives a being to all beings , in that kingdom that shall never fade away ; the which that you my brethren and i may make sure , let us work out our own salvation with fear and trembling , and let us not be slothful , but be followers of them , who thorow faith and patience , inherited the promises , heb. . . and let us be found in gods way , doing gods work , being fortified with christian courage and boldnesse , following the foot-steps of the flock of god gone before us , not at all fearing what man can do unto us ; for this is the requirement of our lord and master , mat. . . who saith , fear not him that can kill the body onely , and afterwards can do no more , but rather fear him , that after he hath killed the body , can cast both body and soul into hell , i say , fear him : and in his fear , let us be found in well-doing , endeavouring as much as in us lyeth , to see that the peace and welfare of the nation be secured ; for if every mans particular interest be involved in the general good , then it stands every particular man in hand , to study the good , peace , safety and welfare of the whole . to this end , let us take the advice of our apostle , tim. . . even as good souldiers of jesus christ , to endure hardship , and take to us the whole armor of god , that we may be able to withstand in the evil day , and having done all , to stand ; let us stand therefore , having our loyns girt about with truth , and having on the brest-plate of righteousness , and our feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace ; above all , taking the shield of faith , wherewith we shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked ; and take the helmet of salvation , and the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god , praying with all prayers and supplication for all saints , ephes. . . &c. and for all men , for kings , and all that are in authority , tim. . , . yea , for our very enemies , and all that hate us , mat. . . and of them that persecute us , let us cry out , and say , in the words of that holy martyr and brother stephen , lord , lay not this sin to their charge , acts . . and in the words of our lord and master , john . . the captain of our salvation , heb. . . our elder brother , heb. . . let us cry out and say , father forgive them , they know not what they do , luk. . . and thus being furnished with the armour of righteousnesse , on the right hand , and on the left , cor. . . let us behave our selves manfully , fighting the lords battel , even to the resisting unto blood , striving against sin , heb. . . striving together for the faith of the gospel , phil. . . not for the wealth , pomp , pleasure , pastimes , preferment , power nor dominions of the earth ; neither in the behalf of our selves nor others , no not in the behalf of our lord and master king jesus , to set him up as king ; for though i do really believe that jesus christ shall personally reign , yet his kingdom is not to be set up as some would have it ; for the seventh angel sounded , and there were great voices in heaven , saying , the kingdoms of this world , are become the kingdoms of the lord , and of his christ , and he shall reign for ever and ever , rev. . . for the stone that was cut out of the mountain without hands , that smote the image on the feet , became a great mountain , and filled the whole earth , dan. . . and this was the confidence of that holy man , job . . for saith he , i believe that my redeemer liveth , and that he shall stand at the last day upon the earth : so also saith the prophet , zech. . . for his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of olives , which is before jerusalem , on the east ; and verse . and the lord shall be king over all the earth ; in that day , there shall be one lord , and his name one ; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea , and from the river , even to the ends of the earth ; for he must reign , till he hath put all enemies under his feet ; the last enemie that shall be destroyed , is death , cor. . , . yet this kingdom shall not be set up by force of arms , neither shall his servants prepare it for him , but he for them ; for so saith he himself , john . . in my fathers house are many mansions , and i go to prepare a place for you ; and i will come to you again , and receive you to my self , that where i am , there ye may be also . and therefore he spake unto them a parable , because he was nigh to jerusalem , and because they thought that the kingdom of god should immediately appear . and a certain noble-man , went into a far countrey ; to receive for himself a kingdom , and to return , luke . , . so that he shall give the kingdom to them , if we may believe himself ; for saith he , fear not , little flock , for it is your fathers good pleasure to give you the kingdom , luke . . and i appoint unto you a kingdom , as my father hath appointed unto me , that ye may eat and drink at my table ; in my kingdom , and sit on thrones , judging the twelve tribes of israel , luke . . but we are yet in the kingdom of christs patience , and not in the kingdom of his power ; for if we may believe himself , he telleth us , john . that his kingdom is not of this world ; for this is esaus kingdom ; and so saith the lord to esdras , for when jacob and esau were born unto isaac , jacobs hand held fast the heel of esau ; for esau is the end of this world , and jacob is the beginning of that which is to come , esdras . , . and indeed this is esau , or the evil ones kingdom ; for satan is the god of this world ; and so saith our apostle , cor. . , . if our gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost , in whom the god of this world , hath blinded the minds of them that believe not , lest the glorious light of the gospel of jesus christ should shine unto them ; and so saith the devil to christ , mat. , , . when he set him upon an high mountain , and shewed him all the glory of the world , and said unto him , all this will i give thee , if thou wilt fall down and worship me . and the lord christ is so far from reproving the falshood of it , as that he saith , john . . the prince of this world cometh , but he ha●h no part in me , and john . . the prince of this world is judged . and to evidence that antipathy , that there is between these two kings kingdoms , and the subjects thereof , the apostle queries with those that had engaged for that king and kingdom , when they were fighting and quarrelling for the things of a temporal kingdom , from whence ( saith he ) comes wars and fightings among you , come they not hence even of your lusts , that war in your members ? ye lust , and have not , ye kill , and desire to have , and cannot obtain ; ye fight and war , yet ye have not , because ye ask not ; ye ask , and receive not , because ye ask amiss ; ye adulterers and adulteresses , know ye not , that the friendship of the world is emnity with god ; whosoever therefore will be a friend to the world , is an enemy to god , james . . &c. and because ye are chosen out of the world , therefore the world will hate you , yet that hatred is not to be requited with hatred again , but with love and good works , according to mat. . . so that no acts of violence or hostility , is to be found in the hands of canaans subjects , but they are patiently to wait for the coming of christ . for so perswadeth our apostle , be patient , brethren , unto the coming of the lord ; behold , the husband-man waiteth for the precious fruits of the earth , and hath long patience for it , until he receive the early and latter rain : be you also patient , stablish your hearts , for the coming of the lord draweth nigh , jam. . . and although we are redeem'd with the blood of the lamb , and are made kings and priests to god , and to christ , and shall live and reign with christ a thousand years , rev. . . . rev. . . yet we ought to have no acts of violence found in our hands to procure or set it up ; but this is the mistake between those that are so eager to set up christs kingdom by violence , and undermining of states and governments , and us that expect it , and yet can act no acts of violence : they expect him to reign spiritually in his people ; and we according to the scriptures , do look for him to come and reign personally with his : they look to have dominion , power and earthly authority by him , and to have their judges restored as at the first , and that on this side the grave ; whilest we wait for a manifestation of christ from heaven ; at which appearance we do expect , and that upon a scripture account , that those that fall asleep in the faith of jesus , shall then appear with jesus ; and that them that are then found in the actual faith of jesus , shall live together with them with jesus , thes. . . when that same jesus which was taken up into heaven , shall so come in like manner as he went into heaven , acts . . for behold , he cometh with clouds , and every eye shall see him , and they also which piersed him , rev. . . in which patient waiting of ours , we must expect , according to the saying of our apostle , that we must through many tribulations , enter into the kingdom of heaven , acts . . our lord and master was pleased to strip himself of glory , and became obedient to that ignomineous death of the cross for our sakes , to bring us to glory , and shall we then grudg for his sake , to go by the cross to inherit that glory ? o my brethren , in gods fear consider what ye do , turn not your backs upon jesus christ , but as ye have set your hand to the plow , so look not back ; for if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him , heb. . . and whosoever will deny me before men , him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven , they were his own words , mat. . . in whose mouth there was sound no guile ; who also telleth us , that the time will come , that if they kill us , they will think they shall do god good service , john . . and seeing we do at this day both see and feel so much in order to the fulfilling of this scripture , in this juncture of time , wherein iniquity doth so much abound , and that the love of many do wax cold ; let us consider in gods fear , what our work is in this our day , that so we may be sound doing gods work , in gods way , although it be to the losse of our liberty , goods , yea and life and all , rather than lose all to eternity . and therefore for my part , i shall resolve , god assisting me according to the ability received , to make use of that sword of the spirit , which is the word of god , to the hewing down of all iniquity , transgression and sin , both root and branch , as near as i can in all , ( and to speak scripture language ) from him that sitteth on the throne , to him that grindeth at the mill and draweth water : and to endeavour such a reformation in all , as that god may build up the nation , and make our land as it is now , abounding in all excesse of ryot , to be as one day it shall be said of jerusalem , even a praise of the whole earth ; and if in this i am looked upon to be vile , i shall by divine assistance , resolve to be yet more vile ; and shall first begin this work at home ; and now i speak of home , i shall begin to look home , and as the husband-man and the merchant , take the time of their best leasure to make up their inventory ; so shall i , for being haled from my lawful employments , having little else to do in my dark , dolesome , drowsie , damp dungeon , i shall see what i am worth , that so i may set my house in order whilest i have time ; for age tells me , i cannot live long , and almost every day an alarm for death is sounding in mine ears , tear me and ram me , sink me and dam me , telling me , some to my face , and others behind my back , that i am not long liv'd , and that i must suddenly prepare for death , because of my judgement , notwithstanding the kings word passed to us from breda and since , for a peaceable enjoying our meeting upon our good behaviour , the which i shall bid defiance to any man that can say , it was ever tainted ; i have therefore set pen to paper , and have added this my inventory , the which haply may seem impertinent in this place , yet i judge the conclusion may be very comfortable ; and as the husband-man and merchant , so shall i ; the husband-man making his inventory , which we will suppose thus , imprimis , hay barns empty , and hay-stack-roomes railed round , with corn barns , and graineries empty , swept and garnished , in which there is nothing of l. s. d. any considerable value . but that which will make a mends for all , is , item , in the harvest crop , abundance of hay , to the raising of stacks , and filling the hay barn and lofts ; and of wheat , rie , barlie , oats , beans and pease , to the filling the barns and graineries , having increased some thirty , some sixty , and some an hundred fould , with the multiplicity both of summer and winter fruits , both of the orchards and cherry grounds , with the abundance of wall fruits , and fragrant-flowers , sweet herbs of all kinds appearing , like the hour of plenty ; together with the sweet encrease of that little , yet profitable creature , the bee ; the which being added to the fore part of the inventory , being as aforesaid , not of l. s. d. any considerable value . doth in the whole amount to , l. s. d. a good considerable sum . and the merchant , when he maketh his inventory , he doth it at his best leasure , when the venture is out-bound ; the which we will suppose this , imprimis , two or three large vast warehouses , empty and neatly cleansed , onely in one corner two or three empty casks , with some odd pack-cloaths and cording ; and all l. s. d. not worth setting down . but item the return of the venture , a gallant , lusty stout tall ship , of a vast burthen , deeply laden , and well man'd , in-bound at the havens ▪ mouth , ready the next tide , being a spring and a fresh smart gale of wind , filling the fore sale , the top sale , the sprit sale , and the mizen , running before the wind , like the post that sides for his life , the antient flying , and the pilat for the safe convey of the vessel carefully instructing the steers-man at the helm , as occasion serves , with a star-bord , lar-bord , port , steady , loof , non-neer ; and the master gunner and his mate fiering , to the rejoycing the heart of the owner , . . . or . great guns , the sea-men and marriners with all speed , striking and furling their sails , coming to anchor , and making to shore , to liver the ship , being richly laden with the best and choisest indian trade , and being home bound , coasting from one countrey to another port , being enriched with the choisest and best commodities of those countries and havens , by which means , though the inventory , as to the former part of it , amounts to l. s. d. no great matter . yet the return of the venture so supposed , as aforesaid , doth raise the total sum to l. s. d. hundreds thousands ten thousands . thus we see the husband-mans harvest , and the merchants return after their patient waiting , makes a mends for all . therefore by the way , a word to my brethren , that are already in prison , with my self , and those that do every hour expect the same measure to be met to them ; and that not upon the account of any real mis-actings found or known , either by them or us , as by plotting , contriving or undermining the present government ; but onely and alone , because we desire and endeavour to keep the testimony of a good conscience , and to prove faithful and loyal to our head and soveraign , our supream , our king , our lord and master jesus christ , whose laws teach the best loyalty to our earthly kings , and purest love to our princes , nay to our very enemies . i say to my brethren imprisoned , and the rest yet at liberty , i shall give the advice of the spirit , recorded in james . . . be patient therefore brethren unto the coming of the lord ; behold the husband-man waiteth for the precious fruits of the earth , &c. be ye also patient , stablish your hearts , for the coming of the lord draweth nie ; and let us not be weary in well doing , for in due time we shall reap if we faint not , gal. . . the which reaping time is , that which fills up my inventory , and will make a mends for all , and raise my total sum to a considerable value ; for as i am a trades man , my estate as to temporals , amounts but to a small value ; as , imprimis , my houshold goods and wearing apparil , being very little , and very mean , and therefore of l. s. d. very little worth . item , in my shop and ware-house , what is left by the hand of oppression ; is , l. s. d. scarce worth valuing . so also as i am a christian , my condition in gross is this , not l. s. d. worth setting down . imprimis , my footsteeps watched , and my actions weighed by an unjust weight and ballance , and mete by a false measure , by which means is produced false reports , opprobious speeches , cruel mockings , scoffings , jeerings and deridings , false accusations , and evil surmisings ; and my whole trade heaven-wards , arraigned , judged and condemned as utterly lawlesse and unlawful ; and my commodities sent me from thence , counterfeit and carnal , adulterated and abominable , sinful and schismatical , wavouring and unstable , whimsical and giddy , fantastical and fannatical , formal and faithlesse , papal and prophane ; by all which it may evidently appear , that as to my present estate and condition among men , i have l. s. d. very little comfort . and to speak in the words of our apostle , if in this life onely we had hope in christ , we were of all men most miserable ; but now is christ risen from the dead , corinthians . , . and therefore , item , in the resurrection day , they that have done good , shall arise of the resurrection of life , john . . for if we have been planted into the likenesse of his death , we shall also be in the likenesse of his resurrection ; and christ being raised from the dead , dieth no more , death hath no more dominion over him , rom. . . . so also is the resurrection of the dead , it is sown in corruption , it is raised again in incorruption ; it is sown in dishonour , it is raised in glory ; it is sown in weakness ; it is raised in power ; it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body . and as we have born the image of the earthly , so also shall we bear the image of the heavenly , cor. . , , . and thus shall we be recompenced at the resurrection of the just , luk. . . this shall we have after we have lived in reproach , infamy and ignomy ; this shall we have if we worship not the beast , nor his image , neither receive his mark in our foreheads , nor in our hands ; though we have been villified and undervalued , railed at and reproached , buffetted and whipped , banished or imprinsoned ; nay , though we shall lose our lives , provided it be only for the witness of jesus , and the word of god , we shall have our part in the first resurrection : and blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection , on such the second death shall have no power ; but we shall be priests to god and to christ , and shall reign with christ a thousand years , rev. . , , . for he must reign till he hath put all enemies under his feet : and when all things shall be subdued unto him , then shall also the son himself be subject unto him , that put all things under him , that god may be all in all , cor. . , . for it is a faithful saying , that if we be dead with him , we shall also live with him ; if we suffer , we shall also reign with him , tim. . , . therefore , item in the harvest crop , abundance of plenty , for in due time we shall reap if we faint not : and whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap ; for he that soweth to the flesh , shall of the flesh reap corruption ; but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting , gal. . , , . and he that goeth on weeping , bearing precious seed , shall doubtless come again and bring his sheaves with him ; for they that sow in tears , shall reap in joy , psal. . . thus weeping may endure for a night , but joy cometh in the morning . in the morning of the resurrection , sorrow and mourning shall vanish away as the dew before the morning sun ; for god shall wipe away all tears from their eyes ; and there shall be no more death , nor sorrow , nor crying , neither shall there be any more pain , for the former things are passed away , rev. . . and the lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall lead them unto living fountains of water ; and god shall wipe away all tears from their eyes , rev. . . yea , he will swallow up death in victory , and the lord god will wipe away teares from all faces , and the reproach of his people shall be taken away from off all the earth , for the lord hath spoken it ; and it shall be said in that day , this is our god , we have waited for him , and he will save us ; this is the lord , we have waited for him , we will be glad and rejoyce in his salvation , isa. . , . for in his presence is fulness of joy , and at his right hand are pleasures for evermore , psal. . . thus our present sufferings are not worthy to be compared with that glory that shall be revealed in us , rom. . . for our light a●●●i●…ions , which are but for a moment , worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory , whilest we look at the things that are not seen , and not on the things that are seen ; for the things that are seen are temporal , but the things that are not seen they are eternal , cor. . . and now my brethren , seeing it is so , that there comes so much , and such great benefit to us by our sufferings , let us chearfully go on in gods way , continuing faithful to the death , that so we may attain the crown of life : and let us follow the lamb wheresoever he goeth , though to the cross , that so we may attain the crown , we shall be great gainers by it : and if we make that use of our sufferings that god intendeth , our faith , our patience , our joy , our love , our peace , and all will be tryed , strengthened , and much bettered . and in conclusion we shall reap the benefit of it , so as that we shall have cause to say with his servant of old , psal. . . i know o lord , that thy judgements are right , and that thou of faithfulness hast caused me to be troubled . and again , by our afflictions we shall evidence our selves to be sons and not bastards ; for whom the lord loveth he chasteneth , and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth ; if ye endure chastening , god dealeth with you as with sons ; for what son is it whom the father chasteneth not ? but if ye be without chastizements , whereof all are partakers , then are ye bastards and not sons , heb. . , , . god is now preparing a people for himself ; and as persons are to be fitted ; hewen and squared for the building of god , before they can be fit matter for his building here , as they must be lively stones before they can be duly put into his building , the church ; so he is now trying his stones for his heavenly building ; he now sitting as a refiner and purifier of silver ; and is now trying the sons of levi , and shall purge them as gold and silver ; and he that is not now found gold , silver or precious stones , will be consumed , his out-side formality will be proved to be hypocrisie : he that now hath not oyl in his vessel will walk in the dark , for profession is almost out of fashion , and he that now hath not habakkuks faith will not stand : he that now finds out a by-way to deny christ , vvill not be found worthy of him ; novv the day vvill try him ; he that vvould not leave his lust , his pride , his vanity , his hunting after his profit , will now evidence himself who he was ; for two men walking together , and a third following them as a servant , it is hard to guess whose servant he is ; but when they part , the servant will follow his own master : christ and reputation , credit or fame have in this nation walked hand in hand a long time together ; but now they are parting , it will suddenly now be evidenced whose servants professors are : and the master without all question will pay them their wages ; the lord is now dealing with his people , as once constantius dealt with his subjects : and would king charles the second have done so , he would have had far better attendants , then now he hath . in the ecclesiastical history , eusebius pamphilius in his first book of the life of constantine , in his twelfth chapter , speaketh to this purpose ; that the magistrates in every province , by the command of the former tyrannical emperors , did cruelly and grievously oppress the christians , and brought them to martyrdom , in so much that godly men were very scarce ; at which constantius , the father of constantine , was much troubled ; who when he came to succeed in the empire , and having a desire to try his courtiers ( saith the story ) he began to contrive a strong and admirable plot ; for he granted free leave to all his officers , and men of dignity , to offer sacrifices unto devils ; and yet to give their attendance in court , and keep their places ; and those that would not perform those accursed sacrifices should be banished the court and dismissed his service : whereupon his courtiers being divided into a double faction , presently discovered their minds and affections : and many were the number of idolaters ; whereupon this worthy constantius discovering his own plot , he reproved those that were fearful and desirous to keep their places , approving and commending the other for their constancy in gods cause , rejecting the idolaters as traytors to god , and not worthy of his service : for how ( said he ) can they be faithful to me their emperour , who have revolted from their god ? so that he presently banished them from his court , and made those that were approved to be constant in giving their testimony to the faith , near officers unto him for the securing of his own person , saying , that such men were to be accounted as his most familliar friends , and to be esteemed of more then great treasures . thus we have briefly characteriz'd the father of constantine by the actions of his life , by which any one may clearly discern that god gave him prosperous success in his affairs , and gave him a different heart from his predecessors : for having a long time performed many vertuous and royal actions , at length having suppressed the superstitious adoration of their heathen gods , he acknowledged the only true god , governor of all things ; and strengthned his family by keeping religious men to pray for him and his ; and spent the residue of his life with great commendations in peace and tranquility , living without troubles , or being troublesome , which the vulgar account a great happiness ; so he governed his wife , children and family very quietly and peaceably all the time of his reign ; and devoted them and himself to the service of god , so that his royal palace seemed to be a religious temple , in which there were holy and religious men , that offered up their incense of prayers for the emperours safety , even then when among the heathen it was a dangerous thing to be called a religious man , or one that served god . and all the harm i wish king charles the second is , that he were but a second constantius , that he had such a court , and such a guard , such a ministry and such a magistracy , such a nobility and such a gentry , such a yeomandry and such a peasantry ; that all from the highest to the lowest were such as truly feared god and hated covetousness , that every relation might act so faithfully towards their god , and each to other in love , peace and unity , that the god of peace might take a delight to dwell amongst us , when all abomination ( babylon like ) might be cast into the sea of forgetfulness . and seeing such a people would make so happy a prince : o friends ! let us hold fast our integrity , that so we may be a blessing to our prince here , and obtain the blessing hereafter . for they that shall be with the lamb are such as shall be found faithful , and worthy , and chosen , for they are virgins , and have not defiled themselves with women , they have not intermingled themselves with the abominations of the great whore , nor her adulterous brood . and if we will have one like the son of god , comforting and supporting , walking with and refreshing us in that hot furnace of affliction that is heating for us ; let us with shadrach , meshach , and abednego , keep close to our god , and let us not be careful to answer the desires of men , dan. . . but in all humility let us patiently suffer under them , in so doing our comfort will be great , though our sufferings be many ; yea though our lives lye at stake , and we also lose them ; yet if our saviours words be true , we shall find them ; for if we with our apostle do fight the good fight of faith , we may expect to lay hold of eternal life ; this is a faithful saying , for if we suffer with him , we shall reign with him ; but if we deny him , he will also deny us , tim. . . and therefore let us take up a resolution to follow him in this our day , in singlenesse of soul , and in our innocency , that we may be blameless and harmless ; the sons of god without rebuke in the midest of a crooked and perverse generation , among whom shine ye as lights in the world , phil. . . giving no offence in any thing that the ministry be not blamed ; but in all things approving our selves as the ministers of god in much patience , in affliction , in necessities , in distresses , in stripes , in imprisonments , in tumults , in labours , in watchings , in fasting ; by pureness , by knowledge , by long-suffering , by kindness , by the holy ghost , by love unfeigned , by the word of truth , by the power of god , by the armour of righteousness , on the right hand and on the left ; by honour and dishonour , by evil report and good report , as deceivers and yet true , as unknown and yet well known , as dying and behold we live , as chastened and not killed , as sorrowful yet alwayes rejoycing , as poor yet making many rich , as having nothing yet possessing all things , cor. . for ye see your calling brethren , how that not many wise men after the flesh , not many mighty , not many noble are called ; but god hath chosen the foolish things of the world , to confound the wise ; and god hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things that are mighty , and base things of the world , and things that are despised , hath god chosen ; yea , and things which are not , to bring to nought the things that are , that no flesh should glory in his presence . and seeing it is so , my brethren , i shall earnestly desire you in the words of our apostle , that you also who are troubled , rest patiently with us when the lord jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire , taking uengeance on them that know not god , and that obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ , who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power , when he shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired in all them that beléeve , because our testimony among you was beléeded . so that as you have cause to joy in us , so we have great cause of rejoycing in you , that we yet stand fast in one faith ; and the churches of god have cause to glory in you for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure , which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of god , that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of god , for which we also suffer , thess. . and thus , if any of us suffer as christians , let us not be ashamed , but let us glorifie god on this behalf . as for you , my brethren , that are of kent , and other places , who have all your livelihoods , and some of you all that you could be trusted for ; as you are servers in of stores and officers in ships , and seamen , and labourers in the several yards appertaining to shipping , my trouble is great for you , to hear of your deplorable and sad condition , in that officers make such use of your tenderness of conscience in that you cannot swear , so barbarously to use you , refusing to let you have supplies for the relieving your poor families ; yet be of good comfort , and roul your selves upon the all-sufficient god : for mine own part i cannot but be a fellow feeler of your sad conditions , for the case is mine own , with one that is too great for me to deal withal , and for more then i am worth ; but wait we upon god , and in his due time he will relieve us . and therefore let us comfort our selves in the lord , and here what the apostle speaks , james . . who saith , go to now ye rich men , wéep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you , your riches are corrupted , and your garments moth-eaten ; your gold and silver is corrupted , and the rust of them shall be a witness against you , and shal eat your flesh as it were fire : ye have heaped treasure together for the last dayes ; behold the hire of the labourers which have reaped down your fields , which is of you kept back by fraud , cryeth , and the cry of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the lord of the sabbath : ye have lived in pleasures on the earth , and been wanton ; ye have nourished your hearts as in the day of slaughter , ye have condemned and killed the just , and he doth not resist you : be patient therefore brethren unto the coming of the lord . and consider , that there is one in power in heaven above them ; and one in earth that is his vicegerent intrusted under him , and set up by him , to be a terrour to evil-workers , and a praise to them that do well ; who in due time may be made acquainted of it , and give a remedy in it . in the mean time , my beloved brethren , be ye steadfast , unmoveable , alwayes abounding in the work of the lord , for as much as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the lord . to conclude , i shall impart unto you my resolution freely , and shall let you know as to my present condition , though i am in a dungeon , yet i had rather be there , ( as through mercy i can say i am with a clear conscience ) then be in the kings palace with a clogged conscience ; for mine own part i with others have had tenders of liberty upon engaging as others did ; the which we dare not do least we ensnare our selves ; for now we are as to our meetings , in this condition , we have yet the word of a king for the quiet enjoyment of our meetings , the which we had from breda , and since confirmed to some of our friends by verbal expressions , as well as in the act of oblivion , and in his declaration for ecclesiastical affairs , and that upon condition ; which condition is not yet , nor ( god assisting ) never shall on our part be broken : for as we have publickly declared our selves in former times under the other powers , to be a peaceable people , and utterly against both swearing and fighting , as by my declaration annexed at the end of my fannaticks mite is apparent , the which through mercy i shall resolve rather to die , then in the least to violate ; and here some men are ready to say as once the brethren of david did to him , who queried the reason of davids forwardness in the work of god ; whose answer was , is there not a cause ? sam. . . so must i say at this day , is there not a cause ? is not the israel of god now defied by the great goliahs of our times ? therefore i must say as once jeptha did in another case , judg. . . i have opened my mouth to the lord , and i cannot go back : and when i am solicited and perswaded to betray the cause of christ , and break his lawes by complying with engagements and oathes ; i must say as once that servant of the lord said , nehem. . . should such a man as i take sanctuary ? should such a man as i betray and break the lawes and cause of christ ? i that have been evil spoken of by the separation for separating from the separation , though i have never been condemned justly by the separation for any such separation ; i say , if such a man as i , should now seek to secure my self after all my separation , i should be the most abominablest person in the world , and might justly be condemned with the world . i know that by what i have said , i must set up my self more publickly for a mark to be shot at : yet i must discharge my conscience as to what i have been , and what i am ; that so i may not be thought either better or worse than what i am : and if therein i become nothing as to my earthly being , yet i matter it not , so i keep a good conscience void of offence , both towards god , and towards man : and if in the innocency of my soul i perish , i perish : and i shall rather chuse to perish a thousand times , then in the least ( knowingly ) either to violate the least law of god , or betray the cause of christ , or do any thing that may dishonour the gospel of christ , or cause his name to be evil spoken of : and although there be such a charge ( as i hear there is given ) to have such a special eye to me ; i know not for what , unless for my good advice to the king : yet it shall neither force me to violate my conscience , nor forfeit my liberty as to our meetings ; but i shall patiently bear my imprisonment till the lord shall in his mercy release me ; hanging yet upon the kings word to be made good to me , and the rest of our peaceable judgement , who are falsly accused , and some of us unjustly imprisoned , and to the wounding of our good names as traytors . yet i say again , i shall resolve ( god assisting me ) to continue , faithfully waiting upon god in his own way , in the integrity of my soul , because better is the poor that walketh in his integrity , then he that is perverse in his lips , and is a fool , prov. . . for the integrity of the upright shall guide them , but the perversness of transgressors shall destroy them , and the righteousness of the upright shall direct his way , whilest the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness , prov. . , . and thus whilest the just man walketh in his integrity , his children are blessed after him , prov. . . the premises considered , it shall be the desire of my soul to go on waiting upon god , earnestly begging in the behalf of the king and his people , that there may be such a right understanding of things , that justice be so duely administred , as that the righteous be not as the wicked , nor the innocent as the guilty , lest the cry of the many oppressed families come up into the ears of the great and just jehovah , that sin-revenging god , who is of a more purer eye then to behold iniquity , so as to approve of it , or those that act in it . thus having given you an accompt both of my innocency and integrety , both what i am , and what ( by divine assistance ) i shall resolve to be , notwithstanding the noysomness of the place i am in , and the hardships that i , and those that are with me , do undergo therein ; our livelyhoods chiefly depending upon our daily handy labours , being torn from our callings , and families , tyed up from getting our own bread , and brought into worse then an egyptian bondage , and contrary to the law both of nature and nations ; who though we are the kings prisoners , yet we have not ( as i said before ) neither beds nor bedding , meat nor money , nay , not so much as a drop of water but what we are forced to purchase with our money ; the which if we have not , nor friends to bring them to us , we must in reason inevitably perish , the which notwithstanding , though we undergo , yet i shall resolve still to endure , rather then set my hand to folly , either to violate my conscience , by breaking the least law of god , or in the least to give my consent to the making my self guilty by paying traytors fees , which is double fees , or any fees at all , seeing i am not guilty of what i am laid in for ; but shall resolve to go on in my christian progress , as a christian ought to do ; and shall desire to wait upon god in prayer and supplication for such a right understanding of things , as that the evil doer only may be punished , & that the meetings of the peaceable people of god , according to the kings promise , may be still continued ; praying for the king and his people , although at present my professed enemies , and to remain till death , your faithful brother and fellow prisoner for christ , henry adis. from my close constraint , the kings courtesie , for my christian counsel , the gate-house dungeon ; damp and dark , void of light , darker then night ; once a den for thieves , but now a house of prayer ; my contented castle , till christ clear me . the end . an end of one controversie: being an answer or letter to master ley's large last book, called light for smoke. one of the assembly at westminster. which he writ lately against me. in which the sum of his last book, which relates to the most material passages in it, is gathered up and replied to. / by john saltmarsh, not revolted (as master ley saith) from a pastoral calling; but departed from the antichristian ministery by bishops, and now a preacher of the gospel. saltmarsh, john, d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing s thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) an end of one controversie: being an answer or letter to master ley's large last book, called light for smoke. one of the assembly at westminster. which he writ lately against me. in which the sum of his last book, which relates to the most material passages in it, is gathered up and replied to. / by john saltmarsh, not revolted (as master ley saith) from a pastoral calling; but departed from the antichristian ministery by bishops, and now a preacher of the gospel. saltmarsh, john, d. . p. printed by ruth raworth for g. calvert, at the signe of the black spread-eagle at the west-end of paul., london, : . a reply to: ley, john. light for smoke (wing l ). annotation on thomason copy: "aprill th". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng ley, john, - . -- light for smoke. church of england -- government -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . freedom of the press -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no an end of one controversie:: being an answer or letter to master ley's large last book, called light for smoke. one of the assembly at west saltmarsh, john c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an end of one controversie : being an answer or letter to master ley's large last book , called light for smoke . one of the assembly at westminster . which he writ lately against me . in which the sum of his last book , which relates to the most material passages in it , is gathered up and replied to . by john saltmarsh , not revolted ( as master ley saith ) from a pastoral calling ; but departed from the antichristian ministery by bishops , and now a preacher of the gospel . isai. . . wo be to them that put darknesse for light . acts . . some therefore cried one thing , and some another : for the assembly was confused , and the most part knew not wherefore they were come together . vers . . and when he had spoken this , he dismissed the assembly . london , printed by ruth raworth for g. calvert , at the signe of the black spread-eagle at the west-end of paul . . aprill ●● the law of nature giving a man leave to speak fairly in his owne just defence , and the law of grace requiring him to speak zealously in the defence of truth , i think it equal that this answer to mr. ley should be printed . april , . . john bachiler . the letter . sir , for the controversie in substance betwixt us , i can not think the truth i defended so weak as to need a new treatise to bear it up . i see it is otherwise with you , who dare not let your former books stand by themselves , without another to support them . it is indeed the way of the popish schools to fill the world with volumes and tomes , and rather to astonish then convince : and this is one thing hath made the world wonder after the beast . there is no end in making many books . how hath truth been carried out of sight from the reader in the labyrinth of replies and rejoynders . your self gives us an experiment in this book : for , how are you puzled to let the reader know what was yours , and what was mine at first , and what is yours again , and what was mine afterwards , and what is yours again in answer to mine , and what truth is after all this . i finde it to be the wisedom of the spirit of god , to leave the world a sufficiency of scripture and truth ; but not to write all , lest the world should not contain it . and pilate was not amisse in that : what i have written , ( says he ) i have written , when they desired him to write more . so as things being thus , i hope i shall write you as much , if not more , in one sheet and an half , as you have writ me in seventeen : for he that writes any thing of truth , more properly writes much , then he that writes against it , though in more paper . the summe of your book is this . . your epistles , which are a competent treatise of themselves , and the very cisterne of your reasoning , from whence you fill all the other pages of your book . . the parts of my treatise , with your answer , or rather much of your former reply , which in things of most weight is no refutation , but a reference to other divines , who have writ of the like subject , &c. it seems you have a common stock of learning amongst you , or an argumentative treasurie , to which you referre us with much ease ; but i cannot take this for good payment , to be put over to another man , when you are bound to pay me your self : i could turn you over thus to as able divines as you do me , to mr. tho. goodwin , mr. burton , mr. john goodwin , mr. nye , mr. tombes , mr , pryun , mr. burrough , mr. white , mr. eaton . mr. den , mr. knolls , &c. . the appendix to your book writ by a master of arts , whether your friend , or your self , for i know not whom you make the two letters c. d. to stand for ; who brings in testimonials of your abilities , learning , piety , good carriage , worth , &c. who methinks speaking so much to your praise as he doth , stands a little too neer you ; we should not seek glory one of another , our praise should be of god , not of men . thus i have contracted you , to save you some evil in the multitude of your words , now to your matter . ( ) that they should counsel me , not to cry down the government . ( ) that no presbytery parochial , &c. assumes such power as the prelatical . ( ) that if the question were rightly stated , men would be convinced , magistracie and christian liberty would be preserved . ( ) that i should restore such tythes , if unlawful , as i formerly received , because the sin till then is not remitted ( ) that i would have men believe as they list ( ) that he was wished rather to a neglect of me , then a loud conquest over me . ( ) that he had rather confute bellarmine , then my new-sprung notions . ( ) because i am against logick and forms of art , i am no right disputant . ( ) that i am an ubiquitary in my belief , because of the opinions set down in the smoke , &c. ( ) that i am an antinomian , and deals with some late divines as some with luther . ( ) that i am unstable . ( ) that i glory in the quick dispatch of my work : to which tertullian , and some old poetry , and other authors , with a story of a noble-man and a brewer , is brought . ( ) that my interposition is like to be no delay to the government . ( ) that he may be better employed then in writing : and others shall undertake me . to the first . . are you in such fears of your government , that you make friends to me to be silent ? is it so weak , that it may be cried down ? to the . is presbytery , because parochial , classical , provincial , lesse tyrannical then episcopal , because many rule in that , and in this but one ? or rather not more tyrannical , because one tyrant is not so much as many together ? evil in a community , is stronger and more diffusive then in vnity . to the . is not the question of the presbytery yet stated ? yea surely : what else hath your assembly and othersibeen doing ? is it not a power in your eldership and presbyterie , how little or large soever , over the churches and congregations ? independent upon the magistrate , coercive to all that believe not as they believe , as to heretiks and schismaticks ? and yet men are not convinced , nor is magistracy or christian liberty so preserved as you say : let both the magistrates and christians judge , who in the mean time you would be judges over . to the . for my restoring of tythes , now unlawful to me ; i have done it ; i have returned to the state my property of a full yeers arrearag : nor did i take tythes since i was in kent , but the peoples free composition from the first ; and being even convinced against that too , a yeer since , i forbore it . but take heed how you put forgivenesse of sin upon restitution ; for that is not onely popery , but like the pope you would sell pardons onely to the rich , and none to the poor ; and you would put more upon sacrifice then upon mercy . to the . nor would i have men believe as they list , as you say of me : i would onely not have men forced to believe as others list , as you or your brethren list : i would have faith wrought by the spirit of god , not by the spirits of men , who have no dominion over faith . to the . and why do you speak so of a loud conquest over me ? truth is not conquer'd , when the man is trampled on . it is not your being great , can make you a conquerer , no more then your calling by the bishops a true presbyter . to the . and for your desire rather to deal with bellarmine then me : i did not think i had been so formidable an enemy ; but i will not presume . indeed bellarmine is a more easie adversary , because he opposes the truth ; and i , though a weak one , may be more considerable , because truth defends me , rather then i the truth : for i will rather make it my champion , then my self a champion for it . and for my new-sprung notions ( as you say : ) call truth notion , or new , or what you will ; you can never call it out of its own nature or essence : and truth is gods own notion ; neither mine nor yours : and new onely to the old man , not to him who after god is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse . to the . nor am i lesse a disputant in divinity , because against forms of art and logick ( as you say . ) i may dispute in christs school , though refused in the school of tyrannus . and if you will chalenge me in any point of philosophie , i shall not refuse you there in logick or forms of art. they are forms onely for the wisedom of men , not the wisedom of god . nor dare i take my discoveries of christ from reason , nor seek the glory of him in forms so much belowe him , and fashion the creator like to the creature , who is god blessed for ever . you and i must die more to vain philosophie , to the wisedom of the greek , to the rudiments of the world . i allow learning its place anywhere in the kingdoms of the world , but not in the kingdom of god . to the . for my being a vbiquitary ( as you say ) in belief , and your proof of this from the several opinions stated in my book : can you be so unfaithful to that book i can you , who would be counted an orthodox , and a divine , thus force and compel those opiniont upon me , or not rather upon the paper onely where they are printed ? because i stated the opinions of men , am i therefore a man of all those opinions ? the best is , the world may convince you of this , and of my purpose in that : and now you are thus unfaithful in a little , i may suspect you for more . are you one of those who pretend to be in the mount with god , and to give laws for religion ? can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the father , while you trifle thus and deceive the brethren ? to the . for my being an antinomian , if to say we serve not in the oldnesse of the letter , but in the newnesse of the spirit : if to say , the law was given by moses , but grace and truth by jesus christ : if to say , we are not under the law , but under grace : if to say , we are delivered from our enemies , that we might 〈◊〉 him without fear , in holines and righteousnes : if to say , the commandment is holy , just , and good : if to say , shall we sin that grace may abound ? god forbid : if this be antinomianisme , i am one of that sort of antinomians i know no other for my part , though you have filled the world with a noise , if this be heresie , so worship we the god of our fathers ; nor have i misquoted any , but onely singled out that truth from many , in one leaf , before they spoiled it in the next , and like pilate , who asking onely what truth was , would not tarry by it , but departed . to the . and for my unstablenesse : if to be sometimes darknesse , and now light in the lord : if to put off the old man with the former lusts , and to put on the new : if to come out of babylon when the spirit calls : if to adde to faith , vertue ; to vertue , patience ; to patience , godlinesse &c. if to grow in the encreasings of god , to a fulnesse of stature in christ : if leaving things that are behinde , and pressing to things that are before , be unstablenesse , let me be always thus changing , till he who can onely change our vile bodies , fashion me like unto his own glorious body . to the . nor do i glory i hope in the quick dispatch of what i do : but do not you as well over deliberate , as i over dispatch , and glory in that ? but are you no better acquainted with the spirit , in the things of god ? are we to be ever consulting with flesh and blood ? did the disciples and brethren when they spake the word of god , tugge first amongst so many school-men ? so many fathers ? so many moderne divines ? so many commentators ? so many old poets as you do ? or rather , onely with the word and spirit , and power of christ : and for that of your poetrie , and your brewer , i desire not to shew so much of the oldman , or former corruption , as to sparkle so lightly with you . to the . for my interposing , being no delay to the government ( as you say ) why do you say then in other places , i presented you wish a former book , against mr. saltmarsh his remora : and again , mr. saltmarsh quare , to retard the establishment ? i pray now , be friends first with your self , before you bee too much an enemie to the truth , or to me ; and though i cannot stand in the way of the establishment ; i am the least in my fathers house ; i am but as the flie upon the wheel ; yet truth is mighty , and of that power , as it can weigh heavie upon your chariot-wheels , when you would be driving into the red sea of persecution , and pursuing israel . to the . whereas you say you are wished to be better imployed then in writing , they are your friends indeed that wish so , you cannot be worse imployed i am su●● then in speaking ill of your brethren , in advancing your selves , in lording it over the heritage , in tryumphing upon the vantage ground of your place , and power ; in applicating , and at the same time judging the magistrate : or in a word intreating them that they may rule , not you , or your presbyterie , but whom you allow them from your prerayterie . and for others undertaking me , as many as please , for i fear not an host , nor a multidude of pen-me● ; i see more for us then against us , i know this present presbyterie may have many pensioners ; there are such great livings of hundreds a year to spice the government ; the silver shrines had many that cried great was diana of the ephesians . mr. leys treatise . . the gradual subordination of assemblies is made good by the learned book of mr. rutherford against the congregationall independency . . the subordinate presbyteries are not churches out of churches , as yours are , not in such singularity , with free choice , more conveniencie in parishes , more for preservation of peace , more agreeable to the apostles , acts . more authorized by parliament . that tythes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledge , that they usurpe upon god and his ministers that alienate them from his worship and service . that old men are more honourable then the young , therefore called senators , elders , sages ; that dreams are more glorious then visions , because of more communion with god in the sleep , then waking , and because of many divine things revealed in dreams , and that john was old when he had his vision . that it is lawful to jest at misapplication of scripture by gods example in gen. by eliahs , by others , &c. that the other church-government comes not under such tryals of the parliament as presbyterie , but is set up without their authority . that gospel patternes are as much in the letter , as the legal , because written . that mr. prinn , dr. bastwick , mr. burton , mr. lilburne , were cruelly used by the bishops , mr. lilburne whipped from fleete-bridge to westminster , so cruelly , that the cords bruised his shoulders , and made them swel as bigg as a penny loafe ; and the warden made him be gagged , as if he would tear his jawes . answer . that the gradual subordination is made good by mr. rutherford , &c. is this reasoning or reference ? and this you have done all along , referred us either to your self , or some other to answer for you . that your presbyteries are not so singular , more free , convenient , more peaceable , more apostolical , more authorized then other churches : these are good commendations ; but had half so much been proved by the word , your government had passed before this . for that of sacriledge , and usurpation upon god in alienating tythes ; never did prelate , no nor bishop mountague plead an higher title for tythes . what sacriledge and usurpation to deny tythes ! where are you ? in the covenant or no ? is it not a parliament ordinance you take them by ? and will you set up a divine right over that now ? surely they may justly now withdraw their ordinance for tythes , and leave you to your divine right , and see what the people will pay you . to that of your commending old men and age ; i reverence age , and old men , but not the old man in them . and for dreams being more excellent then visions ; it is a curious speculation , and enough may be said for both ; yet if you take visions more spiritually , they are more glorious a way of revelation then that of dreams : but what are these dreams to yours ? surely reformation in blood , or by persecution , is but a dream of such as have slept long in prelacy . why are you so much in the defence of jeasting , and so serious in your scripture proofes so it ? take heed of strengthening corrupt nature by scripture ; god and eliah saw errors more clearly then you or i , who may assoon laugh at the scripture it self , as something beside it . and for other church governments not comming under the tryall of parliament , nor comming out by their authority , i know not any that would not 〈…〉 lay down the●… scripture order to that honourable senate , and rejoyce that they would take it up to discusse , and for not coming out under their authority ; i know none of the rest so ambitious 〈…〉 to solicite them to compell their order upon all their brethren , and all must be hereticks and schismaticks that will not , though they cannot beleeve so . for gospel patternes being as much in the letter as the legal , because written , are you such a stranger to the spirits notion of letter and spirit in the new testament ? know you not that the temple or legal worship before was said to be in the oldnesse of the letter ? know you not that gospel patternes are more seen by the spirit now then before ? and though both be written , and in letter , yet not both equally litterall , but the one more glorious in the ministration , the other l●sse . for that of the sufferers , mr. prynn , mr. burton , mr. lilburn , and mr. baestwick ; and mr. lilburne written in such capitall letters of blood , as you justly say ; and can you name these , and call for the power in your hands as you do ? can you thus remember prelates , and yet petition to be such presbyters ? can you see these yet bleeding , and desire to persecute by such a president of blood ? for salmasius his testimony , with the baptisme in the name of the lord jesus christ : and his testimony that the presbyterie is but of humane and positive right , not of divine ; he is mine , and not yours , and all your pains and quarrelling , and after quotations , cannot make him more yours , or lesse mine ; and it is no little disadvantage to you , that one so great a schollar , as your whole assembly affords any , hath thus witnessed with the truth , which so many schollars oppose . c. d. his treatise printed with master ley's book , in master ley's commendation : whether made by himself , or some other , he best knows . his title is , one of the assembly of divines at westminster . and there you might have known of what account he was among his reverend brethren he was chosen chair-man of the committée of examination of ministers , and of the committée of printing ; and one of the triers , and one of the ordainers of ministers ; next after the two doctors , chair-man . [ i remember not any of the apostles in such offices and titles . you might have known him by his patern of pietie , his book on the sabbath ; by divers sermons of his in print , his annotations on the pentateuch : and he hath much more prepared for the presse then is already printed : all which are approved by those most able to judge of judicious and learned labours . [ give them leave to speak themselves in this point . the gréek anagram made on his name when president of sion colledge ; the sun in sion ; with verses . [ if the sun be there , why no more light there then ? for his name , you would think it too venerable &c. john in the hebrew signifies grace ; and ley in spanish , the law . with some letters in his commendation , in pag. , &c. thus i have gathered up all in your book that concerns you materially , and your friend printed on the backside of yours : and for other particulars more substantial , your books and mine are both abroad ; let them speak for themselves : the readers must now judge in the spirit , what we both write in the letter ; for i intend not to puzzle the world with any more of this controversie . some truth may be seen : and what is more , is but you and i. sir , i was unwilling to set your failings before you and the world : but since you printed them once over in mistake , i thought i might print them over in a clearer letter , that you may see things for errours , which before you took for truths . conclusion . thus i have replied to your positions , not to your passions nor repreaches ; in which you are something larger than i had thought becomes an orthodox divine . and for the dirt you cast in my face , i have onely wiped it off , without casting it back on yours : i had rather let it fall in the chanel , which best becomes it . for your revilings , sleight●ngs and railings , if they trouble not your self to write , the presse to ●●●int , and the reader to reade , i promise you they trouble not me . and though i am much belowe many , yet i am in this above you , by how much he that can pardon , is greater then he that offends . i thank you for your ill ●sage you cannot do that against me which works not for my good ; for i am learning to blesse them that curse me , to pray for them that despitefully use me . and truely this advantage i shall make of your taxing me for faults which i have not , to tax my self of the many other faultes which i have indeed , which you and the world see not . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- eccles. . . joh. . . in epistles to sir william strickland●●d m. grimston , and in epist. to my self . eph. . . epist. p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . . p. . p. . p. . to . to . . . act. . . . pag. . ☜ the indispensable necessity of the knowledge of the holy scripture in order to man's eternal salvation and ignorance therein, the mother of idolatry and superstition asserted in a sermon / preached by john tillotson ... tillotson, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the indispensable necessity of the knowledge of the holy scripture in order to man's eternal salvation and ignorance therein, the mother of idolatry and superstition asserted in a sermon / preached by john tillotson ... tillotson, john, - . [ ], p. printed for will. norris ..., london : . "imprimatur, c.a. nov. . ." reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the indispensable necessity of the knowledge of the holy scripture , in order to man's eternal salvation and ignorance therein ; the mother of idolatry and superstition asserted in a sermon , preached by john tillotson d. d. and dean of canterbury . matthew . xxiii . . ●o unto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites ; for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men , and ye neither go in your selves , neither suffer ye them that are entring to go in . imprimatur , c. a. nov. . . london , ●●inted for will. norris at the maiden-head in holbourn , . price stitched three pence . matthew xxiii . . woe unto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites ; for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men ; and ye neither go in your selves , nor suffer ye them that are entring in . the scribes so often mentioned in the gospel , were the great doctors among the jews , the teachers and interpreters of the law of god. and because many of them were of the sect of the pharisees , which above all others pretended to ●kill and knowledge in the law , therefore it is our blessed saviour does so often put the scribes and pha●isees together . and these were the men of chief au●hority in the jewish church ; who equalled their ●wn unwritten word and traditions with the law ●f god : nay , our saviour tells us , they made the commandments of god of none effect by their traditions . they did in effect assume to themselves infallibility ; ●nd all that opposed and contradicted them , they brand●d with the odious name of hereticks . against these ●ur saviour denounceth this woe here in the text , woe ●nto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites , for ye shut up ●●e kingdom of heaven against men , &c. all the difficulty in the words is , what is here ●eant by shutting up the kingdom of heaven against men : ● . luke expresseth it more plainly , ye have taken away ●●e key of knowledge , ye entred not into your selves , and ●●em that were entring in , ye hindred . by putting these ●●o expressions together , we shall the more easily ●●me at the meaning of the text. ye have taken away 〈◊〉 key of knowledge , and have shut up the kingdom of ●●aven against men. this metaphor of the 〈…〉 knowledge is undoubtedly an allusion to that known custom among the jews in the admission of their doctors . for to whomsoever they gave authority to interpret the law and the prophets , they were solemnly admitted into that office by delivering to them a key and a table-book . so that by the key of knowledge is here meant the interpretation and understanding of the scriptures ; and by taking away the key of knowledge , not only that they arrogated to themselves alone the understanding of the scriptures , but likewise that they had conveyed away this key of knowledge , and as it were hid it out of the way , neither using it themselves as they ought , nor suffering others to make use of it . and thus they shut the kingdom of heaven against men : which is very fitly said of those who have lock-the door against them that were going in , and have taken away the key . by all which it appears that the plain meaning of our saviour in these metaphorical expressions is , that the scribes and teachers of the law , under a pretence of interpreting the scriptures , had perverted them and kept the true knowledge of them from the people : especially those old prophecies 〈◊〉 the old testamant which concerned the messias . an● by this means the kingdom of heaven was shut again●● men : and they not only rejected the truth themselves but by keeping men in ignorance of the true meanin● of the scriptures , they hindered many from embracin● our saviour's doctrine , and entering into the kingdo● of heaven , who were ot●erwise well enough dispose● for it . having thus explained the words , i shall from th● main scope and design of them observe to you thes● two things . i. the necessity of the knowledge of the holy scriptures in order to our eternal salvation . it is called b● our saviour the key of knowledge , that which lets me● into the kingdom of heaven . ii. the great and inexcusable fault of those who deprive the people of the knowledge of the holy scri●●tures . they shut the kingdom of heaven against me● and do what in them lies to hinder their eternal salvation ; and therefore our saviour denounceth so heavy a woe against them . i shall speak briefly to these two observations ; and then apply them to those who are principally concerned in them . . first , i observe hence the necessity of the knowledge of the holy scriptures in order to our eternal salvation . this is by our saviour called the key of knowledge , that which lets men into the kingdom of heaven . knowledge is necessary to religion : it is necessary to the being of it ; and necessary to the life and practice of it . without faith ( says the apostle ) it is impossible to please god : because faith is an act of the understanding , and does necessarily suppose some knowledge and apprehension of what we believe . to all acts of religion there is necessarily req●ired some act of the understanding ; so that without knowledge there can be no devotion in the service of god , no obedience to his laws . religion begins in the understanding , and from thence descends upon the heart and life , if ye know these things , ( says our saviour ) happy are ye if ye do them . we must first know god before we can worship him ; and understand what is his will , before we can do it . this is so very evident , that one would think there needed no discourse about it : and yet there are some in the world that cry up ignorance as the mother of devotion . and to shew that we do not wrong them in this matter , mr. rushworth in his dialogues ( a book in great vogue among the papists here in england ) does expresly reckon up ignorance among the parents of religion . and can any thing be said more absurdly and more to the disparagement of religion , than to derive the pedigree of the most excellent thing in the world ; from so obscure and ignoble an original ; and to make that which the scripture calls the beginning of wisdom , and the excellency of knowledge , to be the off-spring of ignorance , and a child of darkness ? ignorance indeed may be the cause of wonder and admiration , and the mother of folly and superstition : but surely religion is of a nobler extraction ▪ and is the issue and result of the best wisdom and knowledge ; and descends from above , from the giver of every good and perfect gift , even the father of lights . and as knowledge in general is necessary to religion , so more particularly , the knowledge of the holy scriptures is necessary to our eternal salvation . because these are the great and standing revelations of god to mankind ; wherein the nature of god and his will concerning our duty , and the terms and conditions of our eternal happiness in another world , are fully and plainly declared to us . the scriptures are the word of god ; and from whence can we learn the will of god so well as from his own mouth ? they are the great instruments of our salvation ; and should not every man be acquainted with that , which alone can perfectly instruct him what he must believe , and what he must do that h● may be saved ? this is the testimony which the scripture gives of it self , that it is able to make men wis● unto salvation ; and is it not very fit that every man should have this wisdom , and in order thereunto the free use of that book from whence this wisdom is to be learned ? secondly , i observe the great and inexcusable fault of those who keep men in ignorance of religion , and take away from them so excellent and necessary a means of divine knowledge , as the holy scriptures are ▪ this our saviour calls taking away the key of knowledge , and shutting the kingdom of heav'n against men ▪ that is , doing what in them lies to render it impossible for men to be saved . for this he denounceth a terrible woe against the teachers of the jewish church ▪ though they did not proceed so far as to deprive me● of the use of the holy scriptures , but only of the righ● knowledge and understanding of them . this alone i● a horrible impiety , to lead men into a false sense and interpretation of scripture ; but much greater to forbi● them the reading of it . this is a stop to knowledg● at the very fountain head ; and not only to lead men into errour , but to take away from them all possibility of rectifying their mistakes . and can there be a greater sacriledge , than to rob men of the word of god , the best means in the world of acquainting them with the will of god and their duty , and the way to eternal happiness ? to keep the people in ignorance of that which is necessary to save them , is to judge them unworthy of eternal life , and to declare it does not belong to them , and maliciously to contrive the eternal ruine and destruction of their souls . to lock up the scriptures and the service of god from the people in an unknown tongue , what is this but in effect to forbid men to know god , and to serve him ; to render them incapable of knowing what is the good and acceptable will of god ; of joyning in his worship , or performing any part of it , or receiving any benefit or edification from it ? and what is , if this be not , to shut the kingdom of heaven against men ? this is so outragious a cruelty to the souls of men , that it is not to be excused upon any pretence whatsoever : this is to take the surest and most effectual way in the world to destroy those for whom christ dyed , and directly to thwart the great design of god our saviour , who would have all men to be saved , and to come to the knowledge of the truth . men may miscarry with their knowledge , but they are sure to perish for the want of it . the best things in the world have their inconveniences attending them , and are liable to be abused ; but surely men are not to be ruined and damned for fear of abusing their knowledge , or for the prevention of any other inconvenience whatsoever . besides , this is to cross the very end of the scriptures , and the design of god in inspiring men to write them . can any man think that god should send this great light of his word , into the world , for the priests to hide it under a bushel ; and not rather that it should be set up to the greatest advantage for the enlightning of the world ? st. paul tells us , rom. . . that whatsoever things were written ; were written for our learning , that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope . and tim. . . that all scripture is given by the inspiration of god ; and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness . and if the scriptures were written for these ends , can any man have the face to pretend that they do not concern the people , as well as their teachers . nay st. paul expresly tells the church of rome , that they were written for their learning , however it happens , that they are not now permitted to make use of them . are the scriptures so useful and profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for instruction in righteousness ? and why may they not be used by the people for those ends for which they were given ? 't is true indeed they are fit for the mos● knowing and learned , and sufficient to make the ma● of god perfect , and throughly furnished to every good wor● ( as the apostle there tells us . ) but does this exclud● their being profitable also to the people ; who may reasonably be presumed to stand much more in nee● of all means and helps of instruction than their teachers : and though there be many difficulties and obscurities in the scriptures , enough to exercise the skill and will of the learned , yet are they not therefore eithe● useless or dangerous to the people . the ancient fathers of the church were of another mind , st. chrysostome tells us that , whatever things are necessary , are manifest in the scriptures . and st. austin , that all things ar● plain in the scripture , which concerns faith and a good life and that th●se things which are necessary to the salvation 〈◊〉 men , are not so hard to become at , but that as to those thing● which the scripture plainly contains , it speaks without disguise like a familiar friend to the hearts of the learned an● vnlearned . and upon these and such like considerations , the fathers did every where in their orations an● homilies charge and exhort the people to be conversant in the holy scriptures , to read them dayly an● diligently , and attentively . and i challenge our a●●versaries , to shew me where any of the ancient father● do discourage the people from reading the scripture● much less forbid them so to do . so that they who do it now have no cloak for their sin : and they who pretend so confidently to antiquity in other cases , are by the evidence of truth forced to acknowledge , that it is against them in this . though they have ten thousand schoolmen on their side , yet have they not one father , not the least pretence of scripture , or rag of antiquity to cover their nakedness in this point . with great reason then does our saviour denounce so heavy a woe against such teachers ; of old in the like case god by his prophets severely threatens the priests of the jewish church , for not instructing the people in the knowledge of god , hosea ▪ . . my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ; because thou hast rejected knowledge , i will also reject thee ; thou shalt be no more a priest to me : seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy god , i will also forget thy children . god , you see , lays the ruine of so many souls at their doors , and will require their blood at their hands . so many as perish for want of knowledge , and eternally miscarry by being deprived of the necessary means of salvation , their destruction shall be charged upon those who have taken away the key of knowledge , and shut the kingdom of heaven against men. and it is just with god to punish such persons not only as the occasion , but as the authors of this ruine . for who can judge otherwise , but that they who deprive men of the necessary means to any end , do purposely design to hinder them of attaining that end. and whatever may be pretended in this case ; to deprive men of the holy scriptures , and to keep them ignorant of the service of god , and yet while they do so , to make a shew of an earnest desire of their salvation , is just such a mockery , as if one of you that is a master , should tell his apprentice how much you desire he should thrive in the world , and be a rich man ; but all the while keeps him ignorant of his trade in order to his being rich ; and with the strictest care imaginable , conceals from him the best means of learning , that whereby alone he is likely to thrive and get an estate . woe unto you scribes , pharisees , and hypocrites . by what hath been discoursed upon this argument , you will easily perceive where the application is like to fall . for the woe denounced by our saviour here in the text against the scribes and pharisees , falls every whit as heavy upon the pastours and teachers of the roman church . they have taken away the key of knowledge with a witness ; not only depriving the people of the right understanding of the scriptures , but of the very use of them : as if they were afraid they should understand them , that they dare not suffer them so much , as to be acquainted with them . this tyranny that church hath exercised over those of her communion for several hundreds of years . it grew upon them indeed by degrees , for as by the inundation of barbarous nations upon the roman empire , the romans bought their language by degrees , so the governours of that church still kept up the scriptures and the service of god in the latin tongue , which at last was wholly unknown to the common people . and about the ninth and tenth centuries , when by the general consent of all their own historians , gross darkness and ignorance covered this part of the world , the pope and the priests took away the key of knowledge , and did ( as i may so say ) put it under the door for several ages ; till the reformation fetcht it out again , and rubbed off the rust of it . and i profess seriously , that hardly any thing in the world was ever to me more astonishing , than this uncharitable and cruel usage of the people in the church of rome . and i cannot tell which to wonder at most , the insolence of their governours in imposing upon men this sensless way of serving god , or the patience shall i call it , or rather stupidity of the people in enduring to be so intollerably abused . why should reasonable creatures be treated at this rude and barbarous rate ? as if they were unworthy to be acquainted with the will of god ; and as if that which every man ought to do , were not fit for every man to know : as if the common people had only bodies to be present at the service of god , but no souls ; or as if they were all distracted and out of their wits , and it were a dangerous thing to let in the lights upon them . but to speak more distinctly . there are two things we charge them withal , and which they are not able to deny . their performing the publick service of god in an unknown tongue ; and depriving the people of the use of the scriptures . and i shall first tell you what we have to say against these things , and then consider what they pretend for them . . as for their performing the service of god in a tongue unknown to the people . and i begin with st. paul , who in his first epistle to the corinthians hath a whole chapter on purpose to shew the unreasonableness of this thing , and how contrary it is to the edification of christians . his discourse is so plain and so well known , that i shall not particularly insist upon it . erasmus in his annotations upon this chapter , breaks out ( as well he might ) into admiration at the church of rome in his time . hâc in re mirum quam mutata sit ecclesiae consuetudo : it is wonderful , ( says he ) how the custom of the church is altered in this matter . st. paul had rather speak five words with vnderstanding , and so as to teach others , than ten thousand in an vnknown tongue . why does the church doubt to follow so great an authority , or rather how dares she to dissent from it ? as for the practice of the ancient church , let origen bear witness , the grecians ( saith he ) in their prayers use the greek , and the romans the latin tongue ; and so every one according to his language prayeth unto god , and praiseth him as he is able . and not only in origen's time , but for more than six hundred years , the service of god was always performed in a known tongue . and this the learned men of their own church do not deny . and cardinal caietan ( as cassander tells us ) said it was much better this custom were restored ; and being reproved for saying so , he said , he learned it from st. paul. and bellarmine himself confesseth that the armenians , aegyptians , aethiopians , russians , and others do use their own language in their liturgies at this day . but it is otherwise now in the church of rome , and hath been for several ages . and it seems they lay great stress upon it , not only as a thing of great use , but necessity . for pope gregory the seventh , forbids the prince of bohemia , to permit to the people the celebration of divine offices in the sclavonian tongue ; and commands him to oppose them herein with all his forces . it seems he thought it a cause worthy the fighting for ; and that it were much better the people should be killed , than suffered to understand their prayers . but let us reason this matter a little calmly with them . is it necessary for men to understand any thing they do in religion ? and is not prayer one of the most solemn parts of religion : and why then should not men understand their p●ayers as well as any thing else they do in religion ? is it good that people should understand their private prayers ? that ( we thank them ) they allow , and why not the publick as well ? is there less of religion in publick prayers ? is god less honoured by them ? or are we not as capable of being edified and of having our hearts and affections moved and incited by them ? where then lies the difference ? the more i consider it , the more i am at a loss what tolerable reason any man can give why people should not understand their publick devotions as well as their private . if men cannot heartily and devoutly pray alone , without understanding what they ask of god , no more ( say i ) can they heartily and devoutly join in the publick prayers which are made by the priest wi●hout understanding what they are . if it be enough for the priest to understand them , why should not the priest only be present at them ? unless the people do not meet to worship god , but only to wait upon the priest. but by saying that the priest understands 'em , it seems it is better that some body should understand them than not ; and why is not that which is good for the priest good for the p●ople . so that the true state of the controversy is , whether it be fit that the people should be edified in the service of god ; and whether it be fit that the church should order things contrary to edification ? for it is plain that the service of god in an unknown tongue , is useless and unprofitable to the people : nay , it is evidently no publick service of god when the priest only understands it . for how can they be said to be publick prayers if the people do not join in them ? and how can they join in that they do not understand ? and to what purpose are lessons of scripture read , if people are to learn nothing by them ? and how should they learn when they do not understand ? this is as if one should pretend to teach a man greek by reading him lectures every day out of an arabick and persian book , of which he understands not one syllable . as to their depriving the people of the use of the holy scriptures ; our blessed saviour exhorts the jews to search the scriptures : and st. paul chargeth the christians that the word of god should dwell richly in them . and the ancient fathers of the church do most frequently and earnestly recommend to the people the reading and study of the scriptures . how comes the case now to be so altered ? sure the word of god is not changed , that certainly abides and continues the same for ever . i shall by and by examine what the church of rome pretends in excuse of this sacriledge . in the mean time , i do not see what considerable objections can be made against the reading of the scriptures , which would not have held as well against the writing and publishing them in a language understood by the people ; as the old testament was by the jews , and the epistles of the apostles by the churches to whom they were written ; and the gospel both by jews and greeks . were there no difficulties and obscurities then in the scriptures , capable of being wrested by the unstable and unlearned ? were not people then liable to errour , and was there no danger of heresy in those times ? and yet these are their great objections against putting the scriptures into the hands of the people ; which is just like their arguing against giuing the cup to the laity from the inconveniency of their beards , least some of the consecrated wine should be spilt upon them : as if errours and beards were inconveniences lately sprung up in the world , and which mankind were not liable to in the first ages of christianity . but if there were the same dangers and inconveniences in all ages , this reason makes against the publishing of the scriptures to the people at first , as much as against permitting them the use of them now . and in truth , all these objections are against the scripture it self : and that which the church of rome would find fault with if they durst , is , that there should be any such book in the world , and that it should be in any bodies hands , learned or unlearned ; for if it be dangerous to any , none are so capable of doing mischief with it as men of wit and learning . so that at the bottom , if they would speak out , the quarrel is against the scriptures themselves . this is too evident by the counsel given to pope julius the third by the bishops met at bononia to consult about the establishment of the roman see ; where , among other things , they give this as their last advice , and as the greatest and weightiest of all , that by all means , as little of the gospel as might be , especially in the vulgar tongue , should be read to the people , and that little which was in the mass ought to be sufficient ; neither should it be permitted to any mortal to read more . for so long ( say they ) as men were contented with that little , all things went well with them , but quite otherwise since more was commonly read . and speaking of the scripture , they give this remarkable testimony and commendation of it ; this in short is that book , which above all others , hath raised those tempests and whirlwinds which we were almost carried away with . and in truth , if any one diligently considers it , and compares it with what is done in our church , he will find them very contrary to each other , and our doctrine not only to be very different from it , but repugnant to it . if this be the case , they do like the rest of the children of this world , prudently enough in their generation : can we blame them for being against the scriptures , when the scriptures are acknowledged to be so clearly against them ? but surely no body that considereth these things , would be of that church , which is brought by the undeniable evidence of the things themselves to this shameful confession , that several of their doctrines and practices are very contrary to the word of god. much more might have been said against the practice of the church of rome in these two particulars , but this is sufficient . i shall in the second place consider what is pretended for them : and indeed , what can be pretended in justification of so contumelious an affront to mankind , so great a tyranny and cruelty to the souls of men ? hath god forbidden the people to look into the scriptures ? no , quite contrary : was it the practice of the antient church to lay this restraint upon men , or to celebrate the service of god in an unknown tongue ? our adversaries themselves have not the face to pretend this . i shall truly represent the substance of what they say in these two points . as to the service of god in an unknown tongue , they say these four things for themselves . first , that the people do exercise a general devotion , and come with an intention to serve god , and that is accepted , though they do not particularly understand the prayers that are made , and the lessons that are read . but is this all that is intended in the service of god ? does not st. paul expresly require more ? that the vnderstanding of the people should be edified by the particular service that is performed : and if what is done be not particularly understood , he tells us the people are not edified , nor can say amen to the prayers and thanksgivings that are put up to god : and that any man that should come in and find people serving of god in this unprofitable and unreasonable manner , would conclude that they were mad . and if there be any general devotion in the people ▪ it is because they understand in general what they are about ; and why may they not as well understand the particular service that is performed , that so they might exercise a particular devotion . so that they are devout no further than they understand ; and consequently , as to what they do not understand , had every whit as good be absent . secondly , they say , the prayers are to god , and he understands them , and that is enough . but what harm were it , if all they that pray understood it also : or indeed , how can men pray to god without understanding what they ask of him ? is not prayer a part of the christian worship ? and is any service reasonable that is not directed by our understandings , and accompanied with our hearts and affections ? but then what say they to the lessons and exhortations of scripture , which are likewise read to the people in an unknown tongue ? are these directed to god , or to the people only ? and are they not designed by god for their instruction , and read either to that purpose , or to none ? and is it possible to instruct men by what they do not understand ? this is a new and wonderful way of teaching , by concealing from the people the things which they should learn. is it not all one , as to all purposes of edification , as if the scriptures were not read , or any thing else in the place of them ? as they many times do their legends , which the wiser sort among them do not believe when they read them . for all things are alike to them that understand none , as all things are of a colour in the dark . ignorance knows no difference of things , it is only knowledge that can distinguish . thirdly , they say that some do , at least in some measure , understand the particular prayers . if they do , that is no thanks to them : it is by accident if they are more knowing than the rest , and ●ore than the church either desires or intends . for , if they desired it , they might order their service so as every man might understand it . fourthly , they say that 't is convenient that god should be served and worshipped in the same language all the world over . convenient for them , for god , or for the people ? not for god surely , for he understands all other languages as well as latin ; and for any thing we know to the contrary , likes them as well . and certainly it cannot be so convenient for the people , because they generally understand no language but their own ; and it is very inconvenient they should not understand what they do in the service of god. but perhaps they mean , that it is convenient for the roman church to have it so ; because this will look like an argument that they are the catholick or vniversal church , when the language which was originally theirs , shall be the universal language in which all nations shall serve god ; and by this means also they may bring all nations to be of their religion , and yet make them never the wiser : and this is a very great convenience , because knowledge is a troublesome thing , and ignorance very quier and peaceable , rendring men fit to be governed , and unfit to dispute . secondly , as to their depriving the people of the scriptures , the summ of what they say may be reduced to these three heads . first , that the church can give men leave to read the scriptures ; but this not without great trouble and difficulty , there must be a license for it under the hand of the bishop or inquisitor , by the advice of the priest and confessor concerning the fitness of the person that desires this priviledge . and we may be sure they will think none fit but those of whom they have the greatest confidence and security ; and whoever presumes to do it otherwise , is to bt denied absolution ; which is as much as in them lies , to damn men for presuming to read the word of god without their leave . and whatever they may allow here in england , where they hold their people upon more slippery terms , yet this priviledge is very rarely granted where they are in full possession of their power , and have the people perfectly under their yoke . secondly , they tell us they instruct the people otherwise . this indeed were something if they did it to purpose , but generally they do it very sparingly and slightly . their sermons are commonly made up of feigned stories and miracles of saints , and exhortations to the worship of them ( and especially of the blessed virgin ) and of their images and relicks . and for the truth of this i appeal to the innumerable volumes of their sermons and postils in print ; which i suppose are none of their worst . i am sure erasmus says , that in his time , in several countries , the people did scarce once in half a year hear a profitable sermon to exhort them to true piety . indeed they allow the people some catechisms and manuals of devotion ; and yer in many of them they have the confidence and the conscience to steal away the second commandment in the face of the eighth . but to bring the matter to a point , if those helps of instruction are agreeable to the scriptures , why are they so afraid the people should read the scriptures ? if they are not , why do they deceive and delude them ? thirdly , they say , that people are apt to wrest the scriptures to their own destruction , and that the promiscuous use of them hath been the great occasion of heresies . it cannot be denied to be the condition of the very best things in the world , that they are liable to be abused ; health , light , and liberty , as well as knowledge : but must all those be therefore taken away ? this very inconvenience of peoples wresting the scriptures to their own ruine , st. peter takes notice of in his days : but he does not therefore forbid men the reading of them as his more prudent successors have done since . suppose the reading of the scriptures hath been the occasion of heresies , were there ever more than in the first ages of christianity ? and yet neither the apostles nor their successors ever prescribed this remedy . but are they in earnest ? must not men know the truth for fear of falling into errour ? because men may possibly miss their way at noon-day , must they never travel but in the night when they are sure to lose it . and when all is done , this is not true , that heresies have sprung from this cause . they have generally been broached by the learned , from whom the scriptures neither were nor could be concealed . and for this i appeal to the history and experience of all ages . i am well assured the ancient fathers were of another mind . st. chrysostome says , if men would be conversant in the scriptures , and attend to them , they would not only not fall into errors themselves , but rescue those that are deceived : and st. hierome more expresly to our purpose . thus infinite evils arise from the ignorance of the scriptures ; and that from that cause the most part of most part of heresies have come . but if what they say were true , is not this to lay the blame of all the ancient heresies uyon the ill management of things by our saviour and his apostles , and the holy fathers of the church for so many ages , and their imprudent dispensing of the scriptures to the people . this indeed is to charge the matter home ; and yet this consequence is unavoidable . for the church of rome cannot justify the piety and prudence of their present practices , without accusing all these . but the thing which they mainly rely upon as to both these practices in this . that though these things were otherwise in the apostles times , and in the ancient church , yet the church hath power to alter them according to the exigence and circumstances of times . i have purposely reserved this for the last place , because it is their last refuge ; and if this fail them they are gone . to shew the weakness of this pretence , we will , if they please , take it for granted , that the governors of the church have in no age more power , than the apostles had in theirs . now st. paul tels us , cor. . . that the authority which the apostles had given them from the lord , was only for edification , but not for destruction : and the same st. paul makes it the business of a whole chapter to shew that the performing the publick service of god and particularly praying in an unknown tongue , are contrary to edification ; from which premises the conclusion is plain , that the apostles themselves had no authority to appoint the service of god to be performed in an unknown tongue ; and surely it is arrogance for the church in any age to pretend to greater authority than the apostles had . this is the summ of what our adversaries say in justification of themselves in these points . and there is no doubt , but that men of wit and confidence will always make a shift to say something for any thing ; and some way or other blanch over the blackest and most absurd things in the world. but i leave it to the judgement of mankind , whether any thing be more unreasonable than to tell men in effect , that it is fit they should understand as little of religion as is poshble ; that god hath published a very dangerous book , with which it is not safe for the people to be familiarly acquainted ; that our blessed saviour and his apostles and the ancient christian church , for more than six hundred years , were not wise managers of religion , nor prudent dispensers of the scriptures , but like fond and foolish fathers put a knife and a sword into the hands of their children , with which they might have easily fore-seen what mischief they would do to themselves and others . and who would not chuse to be of such a church which is provided of such excellent and effectual means of ignorance , such wise and infallible methods for the prevention of knowledge in the people , and such variety of close shutters to keep out the light. i have chosen to insist upon this argument , because it is so very plain , that the most ordinary capacity may judge of this usage and dealing with the souls of men : which is so very gross that every man must needs be sensible of it ; because it toucheth men in the common rights of humane nature , which belong to them as much as the light of heaven , and the air we breath in . it requires no subtilty of wit , no skill in antiquity , to understand these controversies between us and the church of rome . for there are no fathers to be pretended on both sides in these questions : they yield we have antiquity on ours : and we refer it to the common sense of manking , which church , that of rome , or ours , hath all the right or reason in the world on her side in these debates ? and , who they are that tyrannize over christians , the governours of their church or ours ; who use the people like sons and freemen , and who like slaves ; who feed the flock of christ committed to them , and who take the childrens bread from them ? who they are , that when their children ask bread , for bread give them a stone , and for an egg a serpent ; i mean the legends of their saints instead of the holy scriptures , which are able to make men wise unto salvation : and who they are that lie most justly under the suspicion of errors and corruptions , they who bring their doctrine and practices into the open light , and are willing to have them tried by the true touchstone , the word of god ; or they who shun the light , and decline all manner of trial and examination ? and who are most likely to carry on a worldly design , they who drive a trade of such mighty gain , and advantage under pretence of religion , and make such markets of the ignorance and sins of the people ; or we whom malice it self cannot charge with serving any worldly design by any allowed doctrine or practice of our religion ? for we make no money of the mistakes of the people , nor do we fill their heads with vain fears of new places of torment to make them willing to empty their purses in a vainer hope of being delivered out of them . we do not like them pretend a mighty banck of treasure and merits in the church , which they sell to the people for ready money , giving them bills of exchange from the pope to purgatory ; when they who grant them , have no reason to believe they will avail them , or be accepted in the other world. for our parts we have no fear that our people should understand religion too well : we could wish , with moses , that all the lord's people were prophets : we should be heartily glad the people would read the holy scriptures more diligently , being sufficiently assured that it is their own fault if they learn any thing but what is good from thence : we have no doctrines or practices contrary to scripture , and consequently no occasion to keep it close from the sight of the people , or to hide any of the commandments of god from them : we leave these mean arts to those who stand in need of them . in a word , there is nothing which god hath said to men , which we desire should be concealed from them : nay , we are willing the people should examine what we teach , and bring all our doctrines to the law and to the testimony ; that if they be not according to this rule , they may neither believe them nor us . 't is only things false and adulterate which shun the light and fear the touchstone . we have that security of the truth of our religion , and of the agreeableness of it to the word of god ; that honest confidence of the goodness of our cause , that we do not forbid the people to read the best books our adversaries can write against it . and now let any impartial man judge whether this be not a better argument of a good cause , to leave men at liberty to try the grounds of their religion , than the courses which are taken in the church of rome , to awe men with an inquisition ; and , as much as is possible , to keep the common people in ignorance , not only of what their late adversaries , the protestants , but their chief and ancient adversary , the scriptures have to say against them . a man had need of more than common security of the skill and integrity of those to whom he perfectly resigns his understanding ; this is too great a trust to be reposed in humane frailty , and too strong a temptation to others to impose upon us ; to abuse our blindness , and to make their own ends of our voluntary ignorance and easie credulity . this is such a folly as if a rich man should make his physician his heir ; which is to tempt him either to destroy him or to let him dye , for his own interest . so he that trusts the care of his soul with other men , and at the same time by irrecoverable deed settles his understanding upon them , lays too great a temptation before them to seduce and damn him for their own ends . and now to reflect a little upon our selves . what cause have we to bless god who are so happily rescued from that more than aegyptian darkness and bondage , wherein this nation was detained for several ages ; who are delivered out of the hands of those cruel task-masters , who required brick without straw ; that men should be religious without competent understanding , and work out their own salvation while they denied them the means of all others the most necessary to it . who are so uncharitable as to allow us no salvation out of their church , and yet so unreasonable as to deny us the very best means of salvation when we are in it ? our forefathers thought it a mighty priviledge to have the word of god restored to them , and the publick prayers and service of god celebrated in a known tongue : let us use this inestimable priviledge with great modesty and humility ; not to the nourishing of pride and self-conceit , of division and faction ; but as the apostle exhorts , let the word of god dwell richly in you , in all wisdom ; and let the peace of god rule in your hearts , unto which ye are called in one body ; and be ye thankful . it concerns us mightily ( with which admonition i conclude ) both for the honour and support of our religion , to be at better union among our selves , and not to divide about lesser things : and so to demean our selves , as to take from our adversaries all those pretences whereby they would justify themselves , or at least extenuate the guilt of that heavy charge , which falls every whit as justly upon them as ever it did upon the scribes and pharisees , of taking away the key of knowledge , and shutting the kingdom of heaven against men ; neither going in themselves , nor suffering those that are entring to go in . finis . an edict of the french king prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom wherein he recalls and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv, his grandfather, given at nantes, full of most gracious concessions to protestants : to which is added, the french king's letter to the elector of brandenburg, containing several passages relating to the foregoing edict : as also, a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion ... : together with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to, and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg ... / translated out of french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an edict of the french king prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom wherein he recalls and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv, his grandfather, given at nantes, full of most gracious concessions to protestants : to which is added, the french king's letter to the elector of brandenburg, containing several passages relating to the foregoing edict : as also, a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion ... : together with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to, and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg ... / translated out of french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. friedrich wilhelm, elector of brandenburg, - . louis xiv, king of france, - . the second edition corrected, p. printed by g.m., [london] : . revocation of the edict of nantes, dated october , . place of publication from bm. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng henry -- iv, -- king of france, - . france. -- edit de nantes. protestants -- france -- early works to . freedom of religion -- france -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an edict of the french king , prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom . wherein he recalls , and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv. his grandfather , given at nantes ; full of most gracious concessions to protestants . to which is added , the french king's letter to the elector of brandenburg , containing several passages relating to the foregoing edict . as also , a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion , for to make them abjure and apostatize . together , with the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to . and a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg , in favour of those of the reformed religion , who shall think fit to settle themselves in any of his dominions . translated out of french. the second edition corrected , with additions . printed by g. m. anno dom. . an edict of the king , prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom . lewes , by the grace of god , king of france and of navarre , to all present and to come , greeting . king henry the great , our grand-father of glorious memory , desiring to prevent , that the peace which he had procured for his subjects , after the great losses they had sustained , by the long continuance of civil and foreign wars , might not be disturbed by occasion of the pretended reformed religion , as it had been during the reign of the kings , his predecessors ; had , by his edict given at nantes , in the month of april , . regulated the conduct which was to be observed , with respect to those of the said religion , the places where they might publickly exercise the same , appointed extraordinary judges , to administer justice to them : and lastly , also , by several distinct articles , provided for every thing , which he judged needful for the maintenance of peace and tranquility in his kingdom , and to diminish the aversion which was between those of the one and other religion : and this , to the end that he might be in a better condition for the taking some effectual course ( which he was resolved to do ) to re-unite those again to the church , who upon so slight occasions had with-drawn themselves from it . and forasmuch as this intention of the king , our said grand-father , could not be effected , by reason of his suddain and precipitated death ; and that the execution of the fore-said edict was interrupted during the minority of the late king , our most honoured lord and father , of glorious memory , by reason of some new enterprizes of those of the pretended reformed religion , whereby they gave occasion for their being deprived of several advantages , which had been granted to them , by the afore-said edict : notwithstanding , the king , our said late lord and father , according to his wonted clemency , granted them another edict at nismes , in the month of july , . by means of which the peace and quiet of the kingdom being now again re established , the said late king , being animated with the same spirit and zeal for religion , as the king our said grand-father was , resolved to make good use of this tranquility , by endeavouring to put this pious design in execution ; but wars abroad , coming on a few years after , so that from the year . to the truce which was concluded with the princes of europe , in . the kingdom having been only for some short intervals , altogether free from troubles , it was not possible to do any other thing for the advantage of religion , save only to diminish the number of places permitted for the exercise of the pretended reformed religion , as well by the interdiction of those which were found erected , in prejudice to the disposal made in the said edict , as by suppressing the mixt chambers of judicature , which were composed of an equal number of papists and protestants ; the erecting of which was only done by provision , and to serve the present exigency . whereas therefore , at length , it hath pleased god to grant , that our subjects enjoying a perfect peace , and we our selves being no longer taken up with the cares of protecting them against our enemies , are now in a condition to make good use of the said truce , which we have on purpose facilitated , in order to the applying our selves enirely to the searching out of means , which might successfully effect and accomplish the design of the kings , our said grand-father and father , and which also hath been * our intention ever since we came to the crown ; we see , at present , ( not without a just acknowledgment of what we owe to god on that account ) that our endeavours have attained the end we propos'd to our selves , forasmuch as the greater and better part of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , have already embraced the catholick ; and since , by means thereof , the execution of the edict of nantes , and of all other ordinances in favour of the said pretended reformed religion , is become useless , we judge that we can do nothing better towards the entire effacing of the memory of those troubles , confusions , and mischief , which the progress of that false religion hath been the cause of in our kingdom , and which have given occasion to the said edict , and to so many other edicts and declarations which went before it , or were made since with reference thereto , than by a total revocation of the said edict of nantes , and the particular articles and concessions granted therein , and whatsoever else hath been enacted since , in favour of the said religion . i. we make known , that we , for these and other reasons us thereto moving , and of our certain knowledge , full power and authority royal , have by the present perpetual and irrevocable edict , suppressed and annulled , do suppress and annull the edict of the king , our said grand father , given at nantes , in april in its whole extent , together with the particular articles ratified the second of may , next following , and letters patent granted thereupon ; as likewise , the edict given at nismes , in july . declaring them null and void , as if they had never been enacted ; together with all the concessions granted in them , as well as other declarations , edicts and arrests , to those of the pretended reformed religion , of what nature soever they may be , which shall all continue as if they never had been . and in pursuance hereof , we will , and it is our pleasure , that all the churches of those of the pretended reformed religion , scituate in our kingdom , countries , lands , and dominions belonging to us , be forthwith demolished . ii. we forbid our subjects of the pretended reformed religion , to assemble themselves , for time to come , in order to the exercise of their religion in any place or house , under what pretext soever , whether the said places have been granted by the crown , or permitted by the judges of particular places ; any arrests of our council , for authorizing and establishing of the said places for exercise , notwithstanding . iii. we likewise prohibit all lords , of what condition soever they may be , to have any publick exercise in their houses and fiefs , of what quality soever the said fiefs may be , upon penalty to all our said subjects , who shall have the said exercises performed in their houses or otherwise , of confiscation of body and goods . iv. we do strictly charge and command all ministers of the said pretended reformed religion , who are not willing to be converted , and to embrace the catholick apostolick and roman religion , to depart out of our kingdom and countries under our obedience , . days after the publication hereof , so as not to continue there beyond the said term , or within the same , to preach , exhort , or perform any other ministerial function , upon pain of being sent to the galleys . v. our will and pleasure is , that those ministers who shall be converted , do continue to enjoy during their lives , and their widows after their decease , as long as they continue so , the same exemptions from payments and quartering of souldiers , which they did enjoy during the time of their exercise of the ministerial function . moreover , we will cause to be paid to the said ministers , during their lives , a pension , which by a third part shall exceed the appointed allowance to them as ministers ; the half of which pension shall be continued to their wives , after their decease , as long as they shall continue in the state of widow-hood . vi. and in case any of the said ministers shall be willing to become advocates , or to take the degree of doctors in law , we will and understand that they be dispensed with , as to the three years of study , which are prescribed by our declarations , as requisite , in order to the taking of the said degree ; and that , after they have pass'd the ordinary examinations , they be forthwith received as doctors , paying only the moiety of those dues , which are usually paid upon that account in every university . vii . we prohibit any particular schools for instructing the children of those of the pretended reformed religion ; and in general , all other things whatsoever , which may import a concession , of what kind soever , in favour of the said religion . viii . and as to the children which shall for the future be born of those of the said pretended reformed religion , our will and pleasure is , that hence forward they be babtized by the curates of our parishes ; strictly charging their respective fathers and mothers to take care they be sent to church in order thereto , upon forfeiture of . livres or more , as it shall happen . furthermore , our will is , that the said children be afterwards educated and brought up in the catholick apostolick and roman religion , and give an express charge to all our justices , to take care the same be performed accordingly . ix . and for a mark of our clemency towards those of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , who have retired themselves out of our kingdom , countries , and territories , before the publication of this our present edict , our will and meaning is , that in case they return thither again , within the time of four months , from the time of the publication hereof , they may , and it shall be lawful for them , to re-enter upon the possession of their goods and estates , and enjoy the same in like manner , as they might have done , in case they had always continued upon the place . and on the contrary , that the goods of all those , who within the said time of four months , shall not return into our kingdom , countries , or territories under our obedience , which they have forsaken , remain and be confiscated in pursuance of our declaration of the th . of august last . x. we most expresly and strictly forbid all our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , them , their wives or children , to depart out of our said kingdom , countries , or territories under our obedience , or to transport thence their goods or effects , upon penalty of the gally , for men , and of confiscation of body and goods for women . xi . our will and meaning is , that the declaration made against those who shall relapse , be executed upon them according to their form and tenor. morever , those of the said pretended reformed religion , in the mean time , till it shall please god to enlighten them , as well as others , may abide in the several respective cities and places of our kingdoms , countries , and territories under our obedience , and there continue their commerce , and enjoy their goods and estates , without being any way molested upon account of the said pretended reformed religion ; upon condition nevertheless , as forementioned , that they do not use any publick religious exercise , nor assemble themselves upon the account of prayer or worship of the said religion , of what kind soever the same may be , upon forfeiture above specified of body and goods . accordingly , we will and command our trusty and beloved counsellors , the people holding our courts of aids at paris , bayliffs , chief justices , provosts , and other our justices and officers to whom it appertains , and to their lieutenants , that they cause to be read , published , and registred , this our present edict in their courts and jurisdictions , even in vacation time , and the same keep punctually , without contrevening or suffering the same to be contrevened ; for such is our will and pleasure . and to the end to make it a thing firm and stable , we have caused our seal to be put to the same . given at fountainbleau , in the month of october , in the year of grace , and of of our reign the xliii . signed lewes . visa . this signifies the lord chancellors perusal . le tellier . sealed with the great seal of green-wax , upon a red and green string of silk . registred and published , the kings attorney general requiring it ; in order to their being executed according to form and tenor ; and the copies being examined and compared , sent to the several courts of justice , bailywicks , and sheriffs courts of each district , to be there entred and registred in like manner ; and charge given to the deputies of the said attorney general , to take care to see the same executed , and put in force ; and to certifie the court thereof . at paris , in the court of vacations , t he th . of octob. . signed de la baune . a letter of the french king to the elector of brandenburg , sept. . . brother , i would not have discoursed the matter you write to me about , on the behalf of my subjects of the pretended reformed religion , with any other prince , besides your self : but to shew you the particular esteem i have for you , i shall begin with telling you , that some persons , disaffected to my service , have spread seditious pamphlets among strangers ; as if the acts and edicts that were pass'd in favour of my said subjects of the pretended reformed religion , by the kings my predecessors , and confirmed by my self , were not kept and executed in my dominions ; which would have been contrary to my intentions : for i take care that they be maintained in all the priviledges , which have been granted them , and be as kindly us'd as my other subjects . to this i am engaged both by my royal word , and in acknowledgment of the proofs they have given me of their loyalty , during the late troubles , in which they took up arms for my service , and did vigorously oppose , and successfully overthrow the ill designs which a rebellious party were contriving within my own dominions , against my authority royal. i pray god , &c. brother , &c. a short account of the violent proceedings , and unheard-of cruelties , which have been exercised upon those of montauban , and which continue to be put in practice in other places , against those of the reformed religion in france , for to make them renounce their religion . on saturday the / th . of august , . the intendant of the upper guienne , who resides at montauban , having summoned the principal protestants of the said city to come before him , represented unto them , that they could not be ignorant , that the absolute will and pleasure of the king was , to tolerate but one religion in his kingdom , viz. the roman catholick religion ; and therefore , wished them readily to comply with the same : and in order thereto , advised them to . assemble themselves , and consider what resolution they would take . to this proposal some answer'd , that there was no need of their assembling themselves upon that account ; forasmuch as every one of them in particular , were to try and examine themselves , and be always in a readiness to give a reason of the faith which was in them . the next day the intendant again commanded them to meet together in the town-house , which , he ordered , should be left free for them from noon , till six of the clock in the evening : where meeting accordingly , they unanimously resolved , as they had lived , so to persist till death in their religion : which resolution of theirs , there were some deputed by them to declare to the intendant ; who presenting themselves before him , he who was appointed spokesman , began to address himself to the intendant in these words : my lord , we are not unacquainied , how we are menaced with the greatest violence : — hold there , said the intendant ( interrupting him ) no violence . after this the protestant continued ; but whatever force or violence may be put upon us , — here the intendant interrupting him again , said , i forbid you to use any such words : upon which second interruption , he contented himself to assure him in few words , that they were all resolved to live and dye in their religion . the day after , the battallion of la fere , consisting of . companies , entred the city , and were followed by many more . the protestants all this while dreaming of no other design they had against them , but that of ruining their estates , and impoverishing them , had already taken some measures how to bear the said tryal ; they had made a common purse , for the relief of such who should be most burthen'd with quartering ; and were come to a resolution to possess what they had , in common : but , alas ! how far these poor souls were mistaken in their accounts , and how different the treatment they received from the dragoons was , from what they had expected , i shall now relate to you . first therefore , in order to their executing the design and project they had formed against them , they made the souldiers take up their quarters in one certain place of the city ; but withal , appointed several corp de guards to cut off the communication which one part of the city might have with the other , and possess'd themselves of the gates , that none might make their escape . things being thus ordered , the troopers , souldiers , and dragoons began to practise all manner of hostilities , and cruelties , where-with the devil can inspire the most inhumane and reprobate minds : they marr'd and defac'd their houshold-stuff , broke their looking-glasses , and other like utensils and ornaments ; they let the wine run about their cellars , cast abroad and spoyl'd their corn , and other alimentary provisions : and as for those things which they could not break and dash to pieces , as the furniture of beds , hangings , tapistry , linnen , wearing apparrel , plate , and things of the like nature ; these they carried to the market-place , where the jesuits bought them of the souldiers , and encouraged the roman catholicks to do the like . they did not stick to sell the very houses of such , who were most resolute and constant in their profession . it is supposed , according to a moderate calculation , that in the time of four or five days , the protestants of that city were the poorer by a million of money , than they were before the entring of these missionaries . there were souldiers , who demanded four hundred crowns apiece of their hosts for spending-money ; and many protestants were forced to pay down ten pistols to each souldier ; upon the same account . in the mean time , the outrages they committed upon their persons were most detestable and barbarous ; i shall only here set down some few , of which i have been particularly inform'd . a certain taylor called bearnois , was bound and drag'd by the souldiers to the corp de guard , where they boxed and buffetted him all night , all which blows and indignities he suffered with the greatest constancy imaginable . the troopers who quartered with monsieur solignac made his dining room a stable for their horses , tho the furniture of it was valued at livres , and forc'd him to turn the broach till his arm was near burnt , by their continual casting of wood upon the fire . a passenger as he went through the said city saw some souldiers beating a poor man even to death , for to force him to go to mass , whilst the constant martyr to his last breath , cryed , he would never do it , and only requested they would dispatch and make an end of him . the barons of caussade and de la motte , whose constancy and piety might have inspired courage and resolution to the rest of the citizens , were sent away to cahors . monsieur d'alliez , one of the prime gentlemen of montauban , being a venerable old man , sound so ill treatment at their hands , as it 's thought he will scarcely escape with life . monsieur de garrison , who was one of the most considerable men of that city , and an intimate friend of the intendant , went and cast himself at his feet , imploring his protection , and conjuring him to rid him of his souldiers , that he might have no force put upon his conscience ; adding , that in recompence of the favour he beg'd of him , he would willingly give him all he had , which was to the value of about a million of livres ; but by all his entreaties and proffers , he could not in the least prevail with the intendant ; who gave order , that for a terror to the meaner sort , he should be worse used than the rest , by dragging him along the streets . the method they most commonly made use of , for to make them abjure their religion , and which could not be the product of any thing but hell , was this ; some of the most strong and vigorous souldiers , took their hosts , or other persons of the house , and walk'd them up and down in some chamber , continually tickling them and tossing them like a ball from one to another , without giving them the least intermission , and keeping them in this condition for three days and nights together , without meat , drink , or sleep : when they were so wearied , and fainting , that they could no longer stand upon their legs , they laid them on a bed , continuing as before to tickle and torment them ; after some time , when they thought them somewhat recovered , they made them rise , and walked them up and down as before , sometimes tickling , and other times lashing them with rods , to keep them from sleeping . as soon as one party of these barbarous tormenters were tyred and wearled out , they were relieved by others of their companions , who coming fresh to the work , with greater vigour and violence reiterated the same course . by this infernal invention ( which they had formerly made use of , with success , in bearn and other places ) many went distracted , and others became mopish and stupid , and remain so . those who made their escape , were fain to abandon their estates , yea , their wives , children , and aged relations , to the mercy of these barbarous , and more than savage troops . the same cruelties were acted at negreplisse , a city near to montauban ; where these bloody emissaries committed unparallel'd outrages . isaac favin , a citizen of that place , was hung up by his arm-pits , and tormented a whole night , by pinching and tearing off his flesh with pincers ; tho by all this they were not able to shake his constancy , in the least . the wife of one rouffion , a joyner , being violently dragg'd by the souldiers along the streets , for to force her to hear mass , dyed of this cruel and inhumane treatment , as soon as she reach'd the church porch . amongst other their devilish inventions , this was one : they made a great fire round about a boy of about ten years of age ; who continually , with hands and eyes lifted up to heaven , cryed , my god , help me ; and when they saw the lad resolved to dye so , rather than renounce his religion , they snatch'd him from the fire , when he was at the very point of being burnt . the cities of caussade , realville , st. anthonin , and other towns and places in the upper , guienne , met with the same entertainment , as well as bergerac , and many other places of perigord , and of the lower guienne ; which had a like share of these cruel and inhumane usages . the forementioned troops marched at last to castres , to commit the same insolencies and barbarities there also : and it is not to be doubted , but that they will continue , and carry on the same course of cruelties , where ever they go ; if god , in pity and compassion to his people , do not restrain them . it is to be feared , ( for it seems but too probable ) that this dreadful persecution , in conjunction with those artifices the papists make use of to disguise their religion , and to perswade protestants , that they shall be suffered to worship god as formerly , will make many to comply with them , or at least make their mouths give their hearts the lye , in hopes of being by this means put into a condition to make their escapes , and returning to that profession , which their weakness hath made them deny . but , alas ! this is not all ; for those poor wretches , whom by these devilish ways of theirs , they have made to blaspheme and abjure their religion , as if this were not enough , must now become the persecutors and tormentors of their own wives and children , for to oblige and force them to renounce also ; for they are threatned , that if within three days time they do not make their whole family recant in like manner , those rough apostles ( the dragoons ) shall be fain to take further pains with them , in order to the perfecting of their conversion . and who after all this can have the least doubt , but that these unhappy dragoons are the very emissaries of hell , whose very last efforts and death struglings these seem to be ? this relation hath given a short view of some of those sufferings , the reformed have undergone , but not of all : it is certain , that in divers places they have tryed to wear out their patience , and overcome their constancy by applying red hot irons to the hands and feet of men , and to the breasts of women . at nantes they hung up several women and maids by their feet , and others by their arm-pits , and that stark-naked , thus exposing them to publick view , which assuredly is the most cruel and exquisite suffering can befall that sex ; because in this case their shamefac'dness and modesty is most sensibly touched , which is the most tender part of their soul. they have bound mothers that gave suck unto posts , and let their little infants lye languishing in their sight , without being suffered to suckle them for several days , and all this while left them crying , moaning , and gasping for life , and even dying for hunger and thirst , that by this means they might vanquish the constancy of their tender-hearted mothers , swearing to them they would never permit they should give them suck till they promised to renounce their profession of the gospel . they have taken children of four or five years of age , and kept them from meat and drink for some time , and when they have been ready to faint away and give the ghost , they have brought them before their parents , and horribly asseverated , that except they would turn , they must prepare themselves to see their children languish and dye in their presence . some they have bound before a great fire , and being half roasted , have after let them go : they beat men and women outragiously ; they drag them along the streets , and torment them day and night . the ordinary way they took , was to give them no●est ; for the souldiers do continually relieve one another for to drag , beat , torment and toss up and down these miserable wretches , without intermission . if it happen that any by their patience and constancy do stand it out , and triumph over all the rage and fury of those dragoons , they go to their commander and acquaint him , they have done all they could , but yet without the desired success ; who in a barbarous and surly tone , answers them ; you must return upon them , and do worse than you have done ; the king commands it ; either they must turn , or i must burst and perish in the attempt . these are the pleasant flowry paths , by which the papists allure protestants to return to the bosome of their church . but some it may be will object ; you make a great noise about a small matter , all protestants have not been exposed to these cruelties , but only some few obstinate persons : well , i will suppose so , but yet the horror of those torments inflicted on some , hath so fill'd the imagination of these miserable wretches , that the very thoughts of them hath made them comply ; it is indeed a weakness of which we are ashamed for their sakes , and from whence we hope god will raise them again , in his due time ; yet thus much we may alledge for their excuse , that never was any persecution , upon pretence of religion , carried on to that pitch , and with that politick malice and cruelty that this hath been ; and therefore , of all those which ever the church of christ groan'd under , none can be compar'd with it , true indeed it is , that in former ages it hath been common to burn the faithful under the name of hereticks ; but how few were there exposed to that cruel kind of death , in comparison of those who escaped the executioners hands ? but , behold here a great people at once oppress'd , destroy'd , and ruin'd by a vast army of prodigious butchers , and few or none escaping . former , yea late times have given us some instances of massacres ; but these were only violent tempests , and suddain hurricanes , which lasted but a night , or , at the most , a few days , and they who suffered in them were soon out of their pains , and the far greater number escaped the dint of them : but how much more dreadful is the present condition of the protestants in france ? and to the end we may take a true view and right measures of it , let us consider , that nothing can be conceived more terrible , than a state of war ; but what war to be compared with this ? they see a whole army of butcherly canibals entring their houses , battering , breaking , burning , and destroying whatever comes to hand ; swearing , cursing , and blaspheming like devils ; beating to excess ; offering all manner of indignities and violence ; diverting themselves , and striving to out-vie each other in inventing new methods of pain and torment ; not to be appeased with money , or good chear ; foaming and roaring like ravenous raging lyons ; and presenting death , at every moment ; and that which is worse than all this , driving people to distraction , and senseless stupidity , by those devilish inventions we have given you an instance of , in the relation of montauban . moreover , this persecution hath one characteristical note more ; which , without any exaggeration , will give it the precedence in history for cruelty , above all those which the church of god ever suffered under nero , maximinus , or dioclesian ; which is , the severe prohibition of departing the kingdom , upon pain of confiscation of goods , of the gally , of the lash , and perpetual imprisonment . all the sea-ports are kept with that exactness , as if it were to hinder the escape of traytors , and common enemies : all the prisons of sea-port-towns are cramm'd with these miserable fugitives , men , women , boys , and girls ; who there are condemned to the worst of punishments , for having had a desire to save themselves from this dreadful persecution , and deluging calamity . this is the thing which is unparallel'd , and of which we find no instance : this is thaat superlative excefs of cruelty , which we shall not find in the list of all the violent and bloody proceedings of the duke of alva : he massacred , he beheaded , he cutchered ; but at least , he did not prohibit those that could , to make their escape . in the last hungarian persecution , nothing was required of the protestants , but only that their ministers should banish themselves , and abandon and renounce the conduct of their flocks ; and because they were unwilling to obey these orders , therefore it is they have groan'd under so long , and so terrible a persecution , as they have done . but this hungarian persecution is not to be compared with that we are speaking of ; for the fury of that tempest discharged it self upon the ministers only ; no armies were imploy'd , to force the people to change their religion , by a thousand several ways of torment ; much less did it ever enter the thoughts of the emperour's councel , to shut up all the protestants in hungary ; in order to the destroying of all those who would not abjure their religion ; which yet is the very condition of so many wretched persons in france , who beg it as the highest favour at the hands of their merciless enemies , to have leave to go and beg their bread in a foreign country ; being willing to leave their goods , and all other outward conveniencies , behind them , for to lead a poor , miserable , languishing life in any place , where only they may be suffered to dye in their religion . and is it not from all this most apparent , that those monsters , who have inspired the king with these designs , have refin'd the mystery of persecuting to the utmost , and advanc'd it to its highest pitch of perfection ? o great god! who from thy heavenly throne do'st behold all the outrages done to thy people , haste thee to help us ! great god , whose compassions are infinite , suffer thy self to be touched with our extream desolation ! if men be insensible of the calamities we suffer , if they be deaf to our cries , not regarding our groans and supplications ; yet let thy bowels , o lord , be moved , and affect thee in our behalf . glorious god , for whose names sake we suffer all these things , who knowest our innocence and weakness , as well as the fury and rage of our adversaries , the small support and help we find in the world ; behold , we perish , if thy pity doth not rouze thee up for our relief . it is thou art our rock , our god , our father , our deliverer : we do not place our confidence in any , but thee alone : let us not be confounded , because we put our trust in thee . haste thee to our help ; make no long tarrying , o lord , our god , and our redeemer ! a letter sent from bourdeaux , giving an account of the persecution of those of the protestant religion in france . sir , what you have heard concerning the persecution of those that are of our religion , in the land of bearne , guienne , and perigord , is but too true : and i can assure you ; that they who have given you that account , have been so far from amplifying the matter , that they have only acquainted you with some few particulars ; yet am i not much surprized at the difficulty you find to perswade your self , that the things of which your friends inform you , are true : in cases of this nature , so amazingly unexpected , we are apt often to distrust our own eyes ; and i profess to you , that though all places round about us echo the report of our ruine and destruction , yet i can scarcely perswade my self it is so indeed , because i cannot comprehend it . it is no matter of surprize , or amazement , to see the church of christ afflicted upon earth , forasmuch as she is a stranger here , at well as her captain , lord and husband , the holy and ever-blessed jesus was ; and must , like him , by the same way of cross and suffering , return to her own country , which is above . it is no matter of astonishment , to find her from time to time suffering the worst of usage , and most cruel persecutions ; all ages have seen her exposed to such tryals as these , which are so necessary for the testing of her faith , and so fit a matter of her future glory . neither is it any great wonder , if , amidst these sore tryals , vast numbers of those who made profession of the gospel , do now renounce and forsake it : we know that all have not faith ; and it is more than probable , that they who do not follow christ , but because they thrive by it , and for the loaves , will cease to be of his retinue , when he is about to oblige them to bear his cross , and deny themselves . but that which seems inconceivable to me , is , that our enemies should pitch upon such strange ways and methods to destroy us , as they have done , and that , in so doing they should meet with a success so prodigious and doleful . i shall as briefly as i can endeavour to give you an account of so much as i have understood of it . all those thundring declarations , and destructive arrests , which continually were sued for , and obtain'd against us , and which were executed with the extremity of rigour , were scarce able to move any one of us . the forbidding of our publick exercises , the demolishing of our churches , and the severe injunction that not so much as two or three of us should dare to assemble , in order to any thing of divine worship , had no other effect upon the far greater part of us , than to inflame our zeal , instead of abating it ; obliging us to pray to god with greater fervor and devotion in our closets , and to meditate of his word with greater application and attention . and neither the great wants , to which we were reduced by being depriv'd of our offices and imploys , and all other means of living , and by those insupportable charges with which they strove to over-whelm us , as well by taxes , as the quartering of souldiers ( both which were as heavy as could be laid upon us ) nor the continual trouble we were put to by criminal or other matters of law ; which at the suit of one or other were still laid to our charge , tho upon the most frivolous and unjust pretences imaginable ; i say , all these were not able to wear out our patience , which was hardned against all calamities : insomuch as the design of forcing us to abandon the truth of the gospel , would infallibly have been ship-wrack'd , if no other means had been taken in hand for this purpose . but , alas ! our enemies were too ingenious , to be bauk'd so ; and had taken our ruine too much to heart , not to study for means effectual and proper to bring about their desires : they call'd to mind what prodigious success a new kind of persecution had had of late years in poctou , aunix , and xaintonge , which the intendants of those places had bethought themselves of ; and they made no difficulty to have recourse to the same , as to a means infallible , and not to be doubted of . i must tell you , sir , that we had not the least thought that ever such violent methods as these , would have been pitched upon , as the means of our conversion : we were always of opinion , that none but dennuieux's , and marillacs , could be fit instruments for such like enterprizes ; neither could we ever have imagin'd , that generals of armies , who account it a shame and reproach to attack and take some paultry town or village , should ever debase themselves to besiege old men , women , and children in their own houses ; or that ever souldiers , who think themselves ennobled by their swords , should degrade themselves so far , as to take up the trade of butchers and hangmen , by tormenting poor innocents , and inflicting all sorts of punishments upon them . moreover , we were the less in expectation of any such thing , because at the self-same time they treated us in this manner , they would needs perswade us , that the king's councel had disapproved the design : and indeed , it seem'd very probable to us , that all reasons , whether taken from humanity , piety , or interest , would have made them disavow and condemn a project so inhumane and barbarous : yet now , by experience , we find it but too true , that our enemies are so far from rejecting the said design , that they carry it on with an unparallel'd zeal and application , without giving themselves any further trouble to effectuate their desires , than that of doing these two things . the first of which was , to lull us asleep , and to take away from us all matter of suspition of the mischief they were hatching against us ; which they did by permitting some of our publick exercises of religion , by giving way to our building of some churches , by settling ministers in divers places to baptize our children , and by publishing several arrests and declarations , which did intimate to us , that we had reason to hope we should yet subsist for some years : such was that declaration , by which all ministers were ordered to change their churches every three years . the other was , to secure all the sea-ports of the kingdom , so as none might make their escape , which was done by renewing the antient prohibitions of departing the kingdom without leave , but with the addition of far more severe penalties . after these precautions thus taken , they thought themselves no longer oblig'd to keep any measures , but immediately lift up the hand , to give the last blow for our ruine . the intendants had order to represent to us , that the king was resolved to suffer no other religion in his kingdom besides his own , and to command us all in his name , readily to embrace the same , without allowing us any longer respite to consider what we had to do , than a few days , nay hours ; threatning us , that if we continued obstinate , they would force us to it by the extremity of rigour ; and presently executing these their menaces , by filling our houses with souldiers , to whom we were to be lest for a prey ; and who , not content with entirely ruining of us , should besides exercise upon our persons all the violence and cruelty they could possibly devise : and all this to overcome our constancy and perseverance . four months are now past and gone , since they began to make use of this strange and horrible way of converting people , worthy of , and well becoming its inventors . the country of bearne was first set upon , as being one of the most considerable out-parts of the kingdom , to the end that this mischievous enterprize gaining strength in its passage , might soon after over-whelm , and as it were deluge all the other provinces in the same sea of the uttermost calamity . monsieur foucaut the intendant , went himself in person to all the places where we were in any numbers , and commanded all the inhabitants that were of the protestant religion , under the penalty of great amercements , to assemble themselves in those places he appointed to them ; where being accordingly met together , he charged them in the kings name to change their religion , allowing them only a day or two to dispose themselves for it : he told them , that great numbers of souldiers were at hand , to compel those that should rfuse to yield a ready obedience ; and this threatning of his being immediately followed by the effect , as lightning is by thunder , he fill'd the houses of all those who abode constant in their resolution to live and dye faithful to their lord and master , jesus chrst , with souldiers ; and commands those insolent troops ( flesh'd with blood and slaughter ) to give them the worst treatment they could possibly devise . i shall not undertake , sir , to give you a particular account of those excesses , and outrages , these enraged brutals comitted in executing the orders they were charged with ; the relation would prove too tedious and doleful : it shall suffice me to tell you , that they did not forget any thing that was inhumane , barbarous , or cruel , without having regard to any condition sex or age ; they pull'd down and demolished their houses ; they spoil'd , dash'd to pieces , and burnt their best moveables and houshold stuff ; they bruised and beat to death venerable old men ; they dragg'd honourable matrons to mass , without the least pitty or respect ; they bound and fetter'd innocent persons , as if they had been the most infamous and profligate villains ; they hung them up by their feet , till they saw them ready to give up the ghost ; they took red hot fire-shovels , and held them close to their bare heads , and actually apply'd them to other parts of their bodies ; they immur'd them within four walls , where they let them perish for hunger and thirst : and the constancy wherewith they suffer'd all these torments , having had no other effect , but that of augmenting the rage of these furies , they never ceased inventing new ways of pain and torture , till their inhumanity at length had got the victory , and triumphed over the patience and faith of these miserable wretches . insomuch , that of all those many numerous assemblies , we had in that province , as that of pau , d'arthes , de novarre , &c. there are scarcely left a small number , who either continue constant in despite of all these cruelties , or else have made their escape into spain , holland , england , or elsewhere , leaving their goods and families for a prey to these merciless and cruel men. success having thus far answered their expectation , they resolved to lose no time ; but vigorously prosecuting their work , they immediately turned their thoughts and arms towards montauban ; where the intendant having summoned the citizens to appear before him , speaks them much of the same language , as was used to those of bearne ; whereunto they having returned about the same answer , he orders . men to enter the city , and makes them take up their quarters , as at bearne , only in the houses of protestants ; with express command to treat them in like manner , as they had done those of bearne : and these inhumane wretches were so diligent and active in executing these pittiless orders , that of , or . souls , of which that church did consist , not above , or . families are escaped ; who , in a doleful and forlorn condition , wander up and down the woods , and hide themselves in thickets . the ruine of this important place , drew after it the desolation of all the churches about it : which were all enveloped in the same common calamity , as those of realment , bourniquel , negreplisse , &c. yet was not the condition of the churches in the upper guienne more sad and calamitous , than that of those of the lower guienne , and of perigord ; which this horrible deluge hath likewise overwhelm'd . monsieur bouflers , and the intendant , having shared the country between them ; monsieur de bouflers taking for his part agenois , tonnein , clerac , with the adjoyning places ; and the intendant having taken upon him to reduce fleis , monravel , genssac , cartillon , coutras , libourne , &c. the troops which they commanded , in the mean time , carrying desolation to all the places they passed through , filling them with mourning and despair , and scattering terror and amazement amongst all those to whom they approached . there were at the same time . companies at saint foy , . at nerac , and as many in proportion in all other parts : so that , all places being fill'd with these troops , accustom'd to licentiousness and pillage , there is not any one of the said places , where they have not left most dreadful marks of their rage and cruelty ; having at last , by means of their exquisite tortures , made all those of our religion submit themselves to the communion of rome . but forasmuch as bergerac was most signally famous for the long tryals it had most gloriously endured , and that our enemies were very sensible of what advantage it would be , to the carrying on of their design , to make themselves masters there also , at any price whatsoever ; they accordingly fail'd not to attempt the same with more resolution and obstinacy , than any of the forementioned places . this little town had already , for three years together , with admirable patience and constancy , endured a thousand ill treatments , and exactions from souldiers , who had pick'd them to the very bones : for besides that , it was almost a continual passage for souldiers ; there were no less than . troops of horse had their winter-quarters there ; who yet in all that time had only gain'd three converts , and they such too as were maintain'd by the alms of the church . but to return : the design being form'd to reduce this city , two troops of horse are immediately ordered thither , to observe the inhabitants , and soon after companies of foot enter the town : monsieur bouflers and the intendant of the province , with the bishops of agen and perigueux , and some other persons of quality , render themselves there at the same time , and send for . of the chiefest citizens to appear before them ; telling them , that the kings express will and pleasure was , they should all go to mass ; and that in case of disobedience , they had order to compel them to it : to which the citizens unanimously answered , that their estates were at the dispose of his majesty , but that god alone was lord of their consciences ; and that they were resolved to suffer to the utmost , rather than do any thing contrary to the motions of it . whereupon they were told , that if they were so resolved , they had nought else to do but to prepare themselves to receive the punishment their obstinacy and disobedience did deserve ; and immediately . companies more , of infantry and cavalry , enter the city ( which , together with the companies beforementioned , were all quartered with protestants ) with express command not to spare any thing they had , and to exercise all manner of violence upon the persons of those that entertain'd them , until they should have extorted a promise from them , to do whatsoever was commanded them . these orders then being thus executed , according to the desires of those who had given them , and these miserable victims of a barbarous military fury , being reduc'd to the most deplorable and desolate condition ; they are again sent for to the town house , and once more pressed to change their religion ; and they answering with tears in their eyes , and with all the respect , humility , and submission imaginable , that the matter required of them , was the only thing they could not do , the extreamest rigour and severity is denounc'd against them ; and they presently made good their words , by sending . more companies into the city , which made up the full number of an hundred ; who encouraging themselves from their numbers , and flying like enraged wolves upon these innocent sheep , did rend and worry them in such a manner , as the sole relation cannot but strike with horror and amazement . whole companies were ordered to quarter with one citizen ; and persons whose whole estate did not amount to . livres , were taxed at the rate of . livres a day : when their money is gone , they sell their houshold-stuff , and sell that for two pence , which hath cost livres ; they bind and fetter father , mother , wife and children : four souldiers continually stand at the door , to hinder any from coming-in to succour or comfort them : they keep them in this condition , two , three , four , five , and six days , without either meat , drink , or sleep : on one hand the child cries , with the languishing accent of one ready to dye , ah my father ! ah my mother ! what shall i do ' i must dye , i can endure no longer : the wife on the other hand cries ; alas ! my heart fails me , i faint , i dye ! whilst their cruel tormentors are so far from being touch'd with compassion , that from thence they take occasion to press them afresh , and to renew their torments , frighting them with their hellish menaces , accompanied with most execrable oaths and curses ; crying , dog , bougre , what , wilt not thou be converted ? wilt not thou be obedient ? dog , bougre , thou must be converted , we are sent on purpose to convert thee : and the clergy , who are witnesses of all these cruelties , ( with which they feast their eyes ) and of all their infamous and abominable words , ( which ought to cover them with horror and confusion ) make only a matter of sport and laughter of it . thus these miserable wretches , being neither suffered to live or to dye , ( for when they see them fainting away , they force them to take so much as to keep body and soul together ) and seeing no other way for them to be delivered out of this hell , in which they are continually tormented , are fain at last to stoop under the unsupportable burthen of these extremities : so that , excepting only a few who saved themselves by a timely flight , preferring their religion before all temporal possessions , all the rest have been constrained to go to mass . neither is the country any more exempt from these calamities , than towns and cities ; nor those of the nobility and gentry , than citizens . they send whole companies of souldiers into gentlemens houses , who treat them in the most outragious and violent manner conceivable ; insomuch that not a soul can hope to escape , except it may be some few , who like the believers of old , wander in desarts , and lodge in dens and caves of the earth . furthermore , i can assure you , that never was any greater consternation , than that which we are in here at present ; the army , we hear is come very near us , and the intendant is just now arrived in this city ; the greater part of the most considerable merchants are either already gone , or casting about how best to make their escape , abandoning their houses and estates to their enemies ; and there are not wanting some cowardly spirits , who , to avoid the mischief they are preparing for us , have already promised to do whatsoever is required of them . in a word , nothing is seen or heard in these parts but consternation , weeping and lamentation ; there being scarce a person of our religion , who hath not his heart pierced with the bitterest sorrows , and whose countenance hath not the lively picture of death imprinted on it : and surely , if our enemies triumph in all this , their triumph cannot likely be of any long continuance . i confess , i cannot perswade my self to entertain so good an opinion of them , as to think that ever they will be ashamed of these their doings , so diametrically opposite to the spirit of the gospel ; for i know the gospel , in their accounts , passeth for a fable : but this i dare averr , that this method of theirs will infallibly lay waste the kingdome , which , according to all appearance , is never like to recover of it ; and so in time , they themselves will be made as sensible of these miseries , as others now are . commerce is already in a manner wholly extinct , and there will need little less than a miracle to recover it to its former state. what protestant merchants will henceforward be willing to engage themselves in trade , either with persons without faith ; and who have so cowardly betray'd their religion and conscience , or with the outragious and barbarous persecuters of the religion , which they profess ? and who by these courses declare openly and frankly , that it is their principle , not to think themselves oblig'd to keep their word with hereticks ? and who are those , of what religion soever , that will negotiate with a state exhausted by taxes and subsidies , by persecutions , by barrenness and dearth of several years continuance ; full of a despairing people , and which infallibly will e're long be full of those that are proscrib'd , and be bathing in its own blood. and these miserable wretches , who have been deceived by those who have told them , that it would never be impos'd upon them to abjure their religion , and who are stupified by the extremity of their sufferings , and the terror of their bloody and cruel enemies , are wrapt up in so deep an astonishment , as doth not permit them to be fully sensible of their fall : but as soon as they shall recover themselves , and remember , that they could not embrace the communion of rome , with absolutely renouncing the holy religion they professed ; and when they shall make a full reflection upon the unhappy change they have been forced to make , then their consciences being awakened , and continually reproaching their faint-heartedness , will rend them with sorrow and remorse , and inflict torments upon them , equal to those the damned endure in hell ; and will make them endeavour to be delivered from this anguish , and to find rest in the constant profession of that truth , which they have unhappily betray'd . and on the other side ; their enemies will be loath to take the lye at this time of the day ; and therefore will endeavour , through fear of punishments , to oblige them to stay in that abyss of horror , into which they have precipitated them : but because all the sufferings they can possibly threaten them with , will be no ways considerable , when compared with those tortures their consciences have already inflicted upon them , and where-with they threaten them in case of a relapse , they will be constrained to drag them to the place of execution , or else seek to rid themselves of them all at once , by a general massacre , which many good souls have so long desired . i hope , sir , you will not be wanting in your most earnest prayers to beg of god , that he would be pleased to take pity of these miserable wretches ; and make the heart of our soveraign to relent towards us ; that he would convert those , who in their blindness think they do him service , by putting us to death ; that he would cause his voice to be heard by them from heaven , as to st. paul ; saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? and make the rest the examples of his exemplary justice : finally , that he would grant , that all those who have denied him , being touched with a true repentance , may , with st. peter , go out , and weep bitterly . i am , sir , yours , &c. an extract of a letter , containing some more instances of the cruel and barbarous vsage of the protestants in france . but this , sir , is not the thing which troubles me most , at this time ; there 's another cause of my grief , which is but too just , and even pierceth my heart with sorrow ; and that is , the cruel persecution , which the poor protestants of france do suffer , amongst whom i have so many near and dear relations : the torments they are put to , are almost incredible ; and the heavenly courage , wherewith some of them are strengthned by their great captain and leader , to undergo them , is no less amazing and wonderful : i shall give for instance one or two of these champions , that by them you may judge of the rest . a young woman was brought before the council , in order to oblige her to abjure the truth of the gospel ; which she boldly and manfully refusing , was commanded back again to prison ; where they shaved her head , and sing'd off the hair of her privities ; and having stript her stark-naked , in this manner led her through the streets of the city ; where many a blow was given her , and stones flung at her . after this , they set her up to the neck in a tub full of water ; where after she had been for a while , they took her out , and put upon her a shift dipt in wine , which as it dry'd , and stuck to her sore and bruised body , they snatch'd off again ; and then had another ready , dipt in wine , to clap upon her : this they repeated six several times ; and when by this inhumane usage , her body was become very raw and tender , they demanded of her , whether she did not now find her self disposed to embrace the catholick faith ? for so they are pleased to term their religion : but she , being strengthned by the spirit and love of him , for whose names sake she suffered all these extremities , undaunted answer'd ; that she had before declared her resolution to them , which she would never alter ; and that , though they had her body in their power , she was resolved not to yield her soul to them ; but keep it pure and undefiled for her heavenly lover ; as knowing , that a little while would put an end to all her sufferings , and give a beginning to her enjoyment of everlasting bliss : which words of hers , adding fuel of their rage , who now despaired of making her a convert , they took and fastned her by her feet , to something that served the turn of a gibbet , and there let her hang in that ignominious posture , with her head downwards , till she expired . the other person i would instance in , and whom i pity the more , because ( for ought i know ) he may yet survive , and still continue under the tormentor's hands , is an old man ; who having , for a great while , been kept close prisoner ( upon the same account as the former ) in a deep dungeon , where his companions were darkness and horror , and filthy creeping things , was brought before his judges , with vermin and snails crawling upon his mouldred garment ; who seeing him in that loathsom condition , said to him : how now old man , does not your heart begin to relent ? and are not you willing to abjure your heresie ? to which he answer'd : as for heresie , i profess none ; but if by that word you mean my religion , you may assure your selves , that as i have thus long lived , so , i hope , and am resolved by the grace of god , to dye in it : with which answer they being little pleased , but furiously incensed , bespoke him in a rougher tone : do'st thou not see , that the worms are about to devour thee ? well , fince thou art so resolved , we will send thee back again , to the loathsom place from whence thou camest , that they may make an end of thee , and consume thy obdurate heart : to which he reply'd , with the words of the holy patient job ; novi postquam vermes confoderint ( corpus ) istud , in carne mea me vissurum esse deum . i know that after worms have eaten this body , that in my flesh i shall see god. and having so said , he was sent back to his loathsom dark abode ; where if he be still , i pray god to give him patience and strength to hold out to the end , that so he may obtain the crown of life . i should be too tedious , in giving you all the particulars of their cruelty , and of the sufferings of the protestants ; yet i cannot well forbear acquainting you with what lately i am most credibly inform'd of ; which take as follows : some dragoons , who were quartered with a person , who they could by no means oblige to renounce his religion ; upon a time , when they had well fill'd themselves with wine , and broke their glasses at every health they drank ; and so fill'd the floor , where they were , with the fragments ; and by often walking over , and treading upon them , reduced them to lesser pieces and fractions : and being now in a merry humour , they must needs go to dance ; and told their host , that he must be one of the company ; but withal , that he must first pull off his stockings and shoes , that he might move the more nimbly : in a word , they forc'd him to dance with them bare-footed , upon the sharp points of glass ; which when they had continued so long as they were able to keep him on his legs , they laid him down on a bed ; and a while after stript him stark naked , and rolled his body from one end of the room to the other , upon the sharp glass , as beforementioned ; which having done , till his skin was stuck full of the said little fragments , they returned him again to his bed , and sent for a chyrurgeon , to take out all the said pieces of glass out of his body ; which , you may easily conceive , could not be done without frequent incisions , and horrible and most extream pain . another person being likewise troubled with the unwelcome company of these dragoons , and having suffered extreamly at their hands , without the expected success of his conversion ; one of them on a time looking earnestly upon him , told him , that he disfigured himself , with letting his beard grow so long : but he answering , that they were the cause of it , who would not let him stir out of door , for to go to the barber : the dragoon reply'd i can do that for you as well as the barber ; and with that told him , he must needs try his skill upon him : and so fell to work ; but instead of shaving him , flea'd all the skin off his face . one of his companions coming-in at the cry of this poor sufferer , and seeing what he had done , seemingly blam'd him for it , and said , he was a bunglar ; and then to his host , come , your hair wants cutting too ; and you shall see , i will do it much better than he hath shav'd you : and thereupon begins , in a most cruel manner , to pluck the hair , skin , and all , off his head , and flea'd that as the other had done his chin. thus making a sport and merriment of the extream suffering of these miserable wretches . by these inhumane , and more than barbarous means it is , that they endeavour to overcome the most resolved patience , and to drive people to despair and faint-heartedness , by their devilish inventions . they refuse to give them death , which they desire ; and only keep them alive to torment them , so long till they have vanquish'd their perseverance ; for the names of martyrs , and rebels , are equally odious to their enemies ; who tell them , that the king will have obedient subjects , but neither martyrs nor rebels ; and that they have received orders to convert them , but not to kill them . sir , i beg your pardon , for having so long entertain'd you with these more than tragical passages ; and that you would not be wanting to recommend the condition of these poor , destitute , afflicted , and tortured persons , to the bowels of compassion of our heavenly father , that he would be pleased not to suffer them to be tempted above what he shall give them grace to bear : which is the hearty prayer of , your faithful friend , t. g. since the first publishing of this , some further particulars ( representing the horror of this persecution ) are come to hand ; which take as follow : they have put persons into monasteries , in little narrow holes , where thy could not stretch their bodies at length ; there feeding them with bread and water , and whipping them every day , till they did recant : they plunged others into wells , and there kept them till they promised to do what was desired of them : they stript some naked , and stuck their bodies full of pins : they tyed fathers and husbands to the bed-posts , forcing their wives and daughters before their eyes : in some places the ravishing of women was openly and generally permitted : they pluck'd off the nails and toes of others : they burnt their feet , and blew up men and women with bellows , till they were ready to burst . in a word , they exercised all manner of cruelties they could invent , and in so doing , spared neither sex , age nor quality . the profession of the catholick , apostolick , and roman faith , which the revolting protestants in france are to subscribe and swear to . in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , amen . i believe and confess with a firm faith , all and every thing and things contained in the creed , which is used by the holy church of rome , viz. i receive and embrace most sincerely the apostolick and ecclesiastical traditions , and other observances of the said church . in like manner , i receive the scriptures , but in the same sence as the said mother church hath , and doth now understand and expound the same ; for whom and to whom it only doth belong to judge of the interpretation of the sacred scriptures : and i will never take them , nor understand them otherwise , than according to the unanimous consent of the fathers . i profess , that there be truly and properly seven sacraments of the new law , instituted by our lord jesus christ , and necessary for the salvation of mankind , altho' not equally needful for every one , viz. baptism , confirmation , the eucharist , penance , extream unction , orders and marriage ; and that they do confer grace ; and that baptism and orders may not be reiterated , without sacriledge : i receive and admit also the ceremonies received and approved by the catholick church , in the solemn administration of the forementioned sacraments . i receive and embrace all and every thing , and things , which have been determined concerning original sin and justification by the holy council of trent . i likewise profess , that in the mass there is offered up to god , a true , proper , and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and dead ; and that in the holy sacrament of the eucharist , there is truly , really , and substantially , the body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of the lord jesus christ ; and that in it there is made a change of the whole substance of the bread into his body , and of whole substance of the wine into his blood , which change the catholick church calls transubstantiation . i confess also , that under one only of these two elements , whole christ , and the true sacrament is received . i constantly believe and affirm , that there is a purgatory ; and that the souls there detained , are relieved by the suffrages of the faithful . in like manner , i believe that the saints reigning in glory with jesus christ , are to be worshipped and invocated by us , and that they offer up prayers to god for us , and that their reliques ought to be honoured . moreover , i do most stedfastly avow , that the images of jesus christ , of the blessed virgin , the mother of god , and of other saints , ought to be kept and retained , and that due honour and veneration must be yielded unto them . also i do affirm , that the power of indulgence was left to the church by christ jesus , and that the use thereof is very beneficial to christians . i do acknowledge the holy catholick , apostolick , and roman church , to be the mother and mistress of all other churches ; and i profess and swear true obedience to the pope of rome , successor of the blessed st. peter , prince of the apostles , and vicar of jesus christ . in like manner , i own and profess , without doubting , all other things left defined and declared by the holy canons and general councils , especially by the most holy council of trent ; and withal , i do condemn , reject , and hold for accursed , all things that are contrary thereto ; and all those heresies which have been condemned , rejected , and accursed by the church . and then swearing upon the book of the gospel , the party recanting must say : i promise , vow , and swear , and most constantly profess , by gods assistance , to keep entirely and inviolably , unto death , this self-same catholick and apostolick faith , out of which no person can be saved ; and this i do most truly and willingly profess , and that i will to the utmost of my power endeavour that it may be maintain'd and upheld as far as any ways belong to my charge ; so help me god , and the holy virgin. the certificate which the party recanting is to leave with the priest , when he makes his abjuration . i n. n. of the parish of n. do certifie all whom it may concern , that having acknowledged the falseness of the pretended reformed , and the truth of the catholick religion , of my own free will , without any compulsion , i have accordingly made profession of the said catholick roman religion in the church of n. in the hands of n. n. in testimony of the truth whereof , i have signed this act in the presence of the witnesses whose names are under written , this — day of the month of the — year of the reign of our soveraign lord the king , and of our redemption — a declaration of the elector of brandenburg , in favour of the french protestants , who shall settle themselves in any of his dominions . we frederick william , by the grace of god , marquess of brandenburg , arch-chamberlain , and prince elector of the holy empire ; duke of prussia , magdeburg , juilliers , cleves , bergen , stettin , pomerania ; of the cassubes , vandals , and silesia ; of crosne , and jagerndorff ; burg-grave of noremberg ; prince of halberstadt , minde , and camin ; earl of hohenzollern , of the mark and ravensberg ; lord of ravenstein , lawneburg , and butow , do declare and make known to all to whom these presents shall come : that whereas the persecutions and rigorous proceedings which have been carried on for some time in france , against those of the reformed religion , have forced many families to leave that kingdom , and to seek for a settlement elsewhere , in strange and foreign countries ; we have been willing , being touched with that just compassion , we are bound to have for those who suffer for the gospel , and the purity of that faith we profess , together with them , by this present declaration , signed with our own hand , to offer , to the said protestants , a sure and free retreat in all the countries and provinces under our dominion ; and withal , to declare the several rights , immunities , and priviledges , which we are willing they shall enjoy there , in order to the relieving and easing them , in some measure , of the burthen of those calamities , wherewith it hath pleased the divine providence to afflict so considerable a part of his church . i. to the end , that all those who shall resolve to settle themselves in any of our dominions , may with the more ease and convenience transport themselves thither , we have given order to our envoy extraordinary with the states-general of the vnited provinces , sieur diest , and to our commissary in the city of amsterdam , sieur romswinkel , at our charge , to furnish all those of the said religion ( who shall address themselves unto them ) with what vessels and provisions they shall stand in need of , for the transportation of themselves , their goods and families , from holland to the city of hamburg : where then our councellor and resident for the circle of the lower saxony , sieur baerick , shall furnish them with all conveniencies they may stand in need of , to convey them further , to whatsoever city or province they shall think fit to pitch upon , for the place of their abode . ii. those who shall come from the parts of france about sedan , as from champagne , lorain , burgundy , or from any of the southern provinces of that kingdom , and who think it not convenient to pass through holland , may betake themselves to the city of frankfort upon maine ; and there address themselves to sieur merain , our councellor and agent in the said city , or in the city of cologne to sieur lely , our agent , to whom we have also given command to furnish them with money , pasports , and boats , in order to the carrying them down the river rhine , to our dutchy of cleves and mark : or in case they shall desire to go further up in our dominions , our said ministers and officers shall furnish them with address , and conveniencies , for to arrive at those several respective places . iii. and forasmuch as the said our provinces are stored with all sorts of conveniencies , and commodities , not only for the necessity of living , but also for manufactures , commerce , and trade by sea , and by land ; those who are willing to settle themselves in any of our said provinces , may choose such place , as they please , in the country of cleve , mark , ravensberg and minde , or in those of magdeburg , halberstadt , brandenburg , pomerania , and prussia . and forasmuch as we conceive , that in our electoral marquisate , the cities of stendel , werbe , ka●kenow , brandenburg , and frankfort ; and in the country of magdeburg , the cities of magdenburg , halle , and calbe ; and in prussia , the city of konigsberg will be most commodious , as well for the great abundance of all necessaries of life , which may be had there at cheap rates , as for the convenience of trade and traffick ; we have given charge , that as soon as any of the said french protestants shall arrive in any of the said cities , they shall be kindly received and agreed with about all those things , which shall be thought needful for their settlement . and for the rest , leaving them at their full liberty to dispose of themselves in whatsoever city or province they shall judge most commodious , and best suiting with their occasions . iv. all the goods , houshold-stuff , merchandize , and commodities , which they shall bring along with them , shall not be liable to any custom of impost ; but shall be wholly exempt from all charges and impositions , of what name or nature soever they may be . v. and in case that in any of the cities , towns , or villages , where the said persons of the reformed religion do intend to settle themselves , there be found any ruinous and decay'd houses , or such as stand empty , and which the proprietors are not in a condition to repair , we will cause the same to be assigned to them , the said french protestants , as their propriety , and to their heirs forever ; and shall content the present proprietors , according to the value of the said houses ; and shall wholly free the same from all charges , to which the same might stand engaged , whether by mortgage , debts , or any other way whatsoever . furthermore , our will is , that they be furnished with timber , quick lime , stones , bricks , and other materials they may stand in need of , for the repairing of whatsoever is decay'd or ruinous in any of the said houses ; which shall , for six years , be exempt from all sorts of impositions , free quarter , and all other charges whatsoever : neither shall the said french , during the said time of six years , be lyable to any payments whatsoever , but what are chargeable upon things of daily consumption . vi. in cities or elsewhere , where convenient places shall be found for to build houses , those of the reformed religion , who shall make their retreat into our dominions , shall be fully authorized and impowered to take possession of the same , for themselves and their heirs after them , together with all the gardens , fields , and pasture grounds belonging to the same , without being oblig'd to pay any of the dues and charges , with which the said places , or their dependance may be incumbred . moreover , for the facilitating their building in any of the said places , we will cause them to be furnished with all the materials they shall stand in need of ; and will over and above allow them ten years of exemption , during which they shall not be lyable to any other charges or payments , besides the dues charged upon things of daily spending . and furthermore , forasmuch as our intent is , to make their settlement in our dominions the most easie and commodious for them that may be ; we have given command to our magistrates and other officers in the said provinces , to make enquiry , in every city , for houses that are to be lett , into which it shall be free for the said french to enter , and take up their lodging as soon as they shall arrive ; and do promise to pay for them and their families for four years , the rent of the said houses , provided that they engage themselves , within the said term , to build in such places as shall be assigned to them , in manner , and upon condition as aforesaid . vii . as soon as they shall have taken up their habitation in any city or town of our dominions , they shall immediately be made free of the place , as also of that particular corporation , which by their trade or profession they belong to ; and shall enjoy the self-same rights and priviledges , which the citizens , burgesses , and freemen of the said places or corporations do enjoy , and that without being obliged to pay any thing for the said freedome , and without being lyable to the law of escheatage , or any other of what nature soever they may be , which in other countries are in force against strangers ; but shall be look'd upon , and treated upon all accounts , in the same manner , as our own natural subjects . viii . all those whose are willing to undertake and establish any manufactures , whether of cloth , stuffs , hats , or any other whatsoever , shall not only be furnished with all the priviledges , patents , and franchises , which they can wish for , or desire ; but moreover we will take care that they be assisted with moneys , and such other provisions and necessaries as shall be thought fit to promote and make their undertaking successful . ix . to country-men and others , who are willing to settle themselves in the countrey , we will cause a certain extent of ground to be allotted for them to till and cultivate , and give orders for their being assisted and furnished with all things necessary for their subsistence , at the beginning of their settlement ; in like manner as we have done to a considerable number of swiss-families , who are come to dwell in our dominions . x. and as for any business of law , or matter of difference which may arise amongst those of the reformed religion , we do grant and allow that in those cities where any considerable number of french-families shall be settled , they be authorized to choose one from amongst themselves , who shall have full power to decide the said differences in a friendly way , without any formality of law whatsoever : and incase any differences shall arise between the germans and the said french , that then the said differences shall be decided joyntly by the magistrate of the place , and by the person whom the french shall have chosen for that purpose , from amongst themselves . and the same shall be done when the differences of frenchmen , amongst themselves , cannot be accommodated in the forementioned friendly way , by the person thereto by them elected . xi . in every city , where any numbers of french shall settle themselves , we will maintain a minister , and appoint a convenient place for the publick exercise of religion in the french tongue , according to the custome , and with the same ceremonies which are in use amongst the reformed in france . xii . and forasmuch as such of the nobility of france , who , heretofore , have put themselves under our protection , and entred into our service , do actually enjoy the same honours , dignities , and immunities with those of the countrey ; and that there are many found amongst them , who have been raised to the chief places and charges of our court , and command over our forces ; we are ready and willing to continue the same favour to those of the said nobility , who for time to come shall settle themselves in our dominions , by bestowing upon them the several charges , honours and dignities , they shall be found fitted for . and in case they shall purchase any mannors or lordships , they shall possess the same with all the rights , prerogatives , and immunities , which the nobility of our own dominions do of right enjoy . xiii . all these priviledges and advantages forementioned shall not only be extended to those french of the reformed religion , who shall arrive in our dominions ( in order to their settling there ) after the date of this declaration ; but also to those , who before the date hereof , have settled themselves in our countries , provided they have been forced to leave france upon account of their religion ; they of the romish profession being wholly excluded from any part or share therein . xiv . in every one of our provinces , dutchies , and principalities , we shall appoint and establish certain commissioners , to whom the french of the reformed religion , may have recourse , and address themselves upon all occasions of need ; and this not only at the beginning of their settlement , but also afterwards . and all governours and magistrates of our provinces and territories , shall have order by vertue of these presents , as well as by other particular commands , we shall from time to time issue forth , to take the said persons of the reformed religion into their protection , and to maintain them in all the priviledges here before mentioned , and not suffer the least hurt or injury to be done unto them , but rather all manner of favour , aide and assistance . given at postdam , octob. . . signed , frederick william . kind reader , forasmuch as in the edict of the french king , the perpetual and irrevocable edict of nantes is recall'd and abolished ; i thought fit ( because the whole edict would be too long to be inserted here ) to give you some passages of the prefatory part of it , whereby it may appear what stress was laid on it by henry the iv. ( called the great ) grandfather to the present french king , and how much he judged the exact maintaining of it would conduce to the settlement , peace , and prosperity of his kingdom . — now it hath pleased god to give us a beginning of enjoying some rest , we think , we cannot employ our selves better , than to apply to that which may tend to the service and glory of his holy name , and to provide that he may be adored and prayed to by all our subjects ; and if 〈…〉 at h not yet pleased him to permit it to be in one and the same form of religion , that it may at the least be with one and the same intention , and with such rules , that may prevent amongst them all troubles and tumults ; and that we and this kingdom may always conserve the glorious title of most christian , and by the same means take away the cause of mischief and trouble , which may happen from the actions of religion , which of all others are most prevalent and penetrating . for this cause , acknowledging this affair to be of the greatest importance , and worthy of the best consideration , after having considered the complaints of our catholick subjects , and having also permitted to our subjects of the reformed religion , to assemble themselves by deputies for framing their complaints , and making a collection of all their remonstrances , and having thereupon conferred divers times with them , we have upon the whole judged it necessary , to give to all our said subjects one general law , clear , plain , and absolute , by which they shall be regulated in all differences , which have heretofore risen among them , or which may rise hereafter , and wherewith both the one and the other may be contented ; having had no other regard in this deliberation , than solely the zeal we have to the service of god , praying that he would henceforward grant to all our subjects a durable and established peace : and we implore and expect from his divine bounty the same protection and favour he hath always bestowed upon this kingdom from our birth , & that he would give our said subjects the grace to understand , that in observation of this our ordinance , consisteth ( next to their duty toward god and us ) the principal foundation of their vnion concord , tranquility , rest , & the re-establishment of this state in its first splendor . opulency & strength ; as on our p●●● we promise that all the parts of it shall be exactly observed , without suffering any contravention . and for these causes , having with the advice of the princes of our blood , other princes and officers of our crown , and other great and eminent persons of our council of state , well and diligently weighed and considered all this affair ; we have by this edict or statute , perpetual and irrevocable , said , declared , & ordained , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ☞ ☜ truth exalted, in a short, but sure testimony against all those religions, faiths, and vvorships that have been formed and followed in the darkness of apostacy ... by william penn the younger ... penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) truth exalted, in a short, but sure testimony against all those religions, faiths, and vvorships that have been formed and followed in the darkness of apostacy ... by william penn the younger ... penn, william, - . p. [s.n.], london : . marginal notes. this item can be found separately at reel : and together with wing c and p at reel : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- doctrines. freedom of religion -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth exalted ; in a short , but sure , testimony against all those religions , faiths , and vvorships that have been formed and followed in the darkness of apostacy . — and for that glorious light which is now risen , and shines forth in the life and doctrine of the despised quakers , as the alone good old way of life and salvation . presented to princes , priests , and people , that they may repent , believe , and obey . by william penn the younger , whom divine love constrains in a holy contempt to trample on egypts glory , not fearing the kings wrath , having beheld the magisty of him who is invisible . london , printed in the year , . to princes , priests , and people . jehovah , the everlasting power , that spans out the heavens with his span , and measures the waters in the hollow of his hand , before whom all nations , tongues and people , are less than the drop to the ocean , or the sand to the sea shoar ; who said , let all things be , and they were , and by the same word of his might , preserves them to this very day , is holy , merciful , and just ; and , as the most excellent part of the whole creation , made he man , the image of himself , by investing him with that righteous principle , and innocent life , which gave him dominion and authority over all his works , allowing him to eat of every tree , saving that of good and evil , of which if he did eat , he should certainly die . happy had it been for adam and his posterity , had he obeyed gods commands ; but transgression by disobedience getting entrance , he soon died to his innocent state , in which god created him , and became alive in the dominion sin had over him , being now as one without law , in whose fallen state all nations have been , and are , ( let their professions seem never so great , and their sacrifices never so many ) that live in the disobedient nature , and so strangers to that immortality and life eternal , the first adam became dead and darkened to by his transgression , and which the second adam raises to the knowledge and possession of , by the power of his quickning spirit ; yet where the devil ( that subtile serpent ) hath not totally extinguished the notion of a god , and the necessity of his being worshipped , it has been rather his interest than dis-service , to put the selfish part of the creature upon sacrificing , wickedly insinuating that none can be freed from sin , and that the performing of rites , duties , and ceremonies , is all god requires , and what is necessary to procure acceptance with him . thus 't was that murthering cain became a sacrificer , whose sacrifice god rejected , because offered in the fallen unrighteous and accursed nature . such also were those generations who drew near to god with their lips , and to whom he said of old , what signifies the multitudes of your sacrifices ? i am full of burnt offerings , bring no more vain oblations ; incense is an abomination unto me ; the new moons , and sabbath ; the calling of the assemblies i cannot away with , it is iniquity ; even the solemn meetings i am weary to bear them ; and when you spread forth your hands , i will bide mine eyes ; yea , when you make many prayers , i will not he●● them ; yo●r hands are full of blood : wash you , make you clean , put away the evil of your doings , &c. therefore , o ye princes , priests , and people , the sollid , necessary , and weighty question i have to ask you all in the dread & fear of the everlasting , holy , lord god almighty , ( by whose eternal spirit the sence of your present state and condition i perfectly have received ) is this . what nature , what heart , what spirit , and what ground is it in which your religions , faiths , works , words and worships stand and grow ? is it the divine , not the fallen nature ? it is the broken , not the stony heart ? is it the contrite not the formal spirit ? is it the gospel increasing good , not old adams corrupt thorney ground ? for this know , that no performances but by clean hands and a pure heart , from whence evil doings are put away , can give acceptance with the pure god. come , answer me first , you papists , whose popes for many hundred years have sat exalted in the hearts of nations , ( god's temple ) above all that is called god : what scripture ever made a pope , or gave authority to any one to lord it over the consciences of others , since christ enjoyns that christians should be brethren ? and by what warrantable tradition can be make , dispose , and depose civil empires ? whence came your creeds but from factious and corrupted councils , dyed in the blood of those who refus'd conformity ? what scriptures of the holy prophets , and apostles , or any tradition for the first three hundred years , mention a mass-book , speak of peter's chair , and a successive infallibility , or that say a wafer is corporially the flesh , blood and bones , which suffer'd without jerusalem ? and where did they adore images , consume many thousands and millions in building , carving and painting outward temples , after jerusalems ( the type ) was destroyed , whilst thousands of poor families languished through extream poverty ? when did they enjoyn baby-baptism , churching of women , marrying by priests , holy water to frighten the devil , hollowing of bells to scare evil spirits , making and worshipping of crosses , erecting of altars ? and where did they command bowings , institute musicks , appoint holy dayes , canonize saints , chaffer and merchandize about indulgences , pray for the dead , preach or write for a purgatory ? and what book or chapter in the old or new testament , mentions the degrees of popes , cardinals , arch-bishops , deans , prebeuds , jesuites , franciscans , dominicans , urselines , capuchines , benedictines , with other such like lazy nuns and fryars , for the edification of christs church ? but above all , when and where did they authorize or indulge your cruel , persecuting , whipping , racking , inquisition , murdering spirit ? whose popes , faith , church-government , and whole religion , were founded , and are maintained by inhumane bloodshed , as your own histories plainly manifest ▪ — who gave life to these things but the devil , who was a murderer from the beginning ? thus have you papists , through many generations , received for doctrine the precepts of men , who for much speaking , and sacrificing of your own inventions , expect to be heard , whilst in the lustful , wanton , ignorant , and killing nature , which has been alwayes shedding the precious blood of those whom god in every age raised to testifie against your superstitions & will-worships ; therefore woes from god almighty to that romish whore , who has corrupted the nations , and sits upon a scarlet coloured beast full of names of blasphemy , drunk with the blood of saints , and martyrs of jesus ; the hour of her desolation is nigh , and in the cup which she hath filled , shall it be fil'd unto her double ; for strong is the lord god of hosts who judgeth her . come now , you that are called protestants , however denominated or distinguished , who profess the scriptures for the rule of life and doctrine , stand your tryal by them ; and first those who are called episcopalians , who date your religion from the martyrs : that those who first protested against the darkness and gross idolatry of the popish antichrist , were directed thereto , and supported therein , by the mighty power of god , is not denyed ; and that the seals of blood they set to recommend their testimonies to posterity , are with us in high esteem , i openly affirm and declare ; but that you of the church of england have any more to do with them ( who now persecute us ) than had the jews and pharisees with abraham , moses , and the prophets , who crucified the lord of life , is as positively disowned : for as they were out of the life and spirit of those holy men , ( though building and garnishing their sepulchres , and making great profession with their words ) insomuch as that they slew those whom god sent in the same spirit to preach a farther glory , and to discover a more excellent way ; so are you out of the power and spirit your fore-fathers lived and died in , professing their words , but persecuting the same spirit in others , and crucifying it in your selves : no wonder therefore you have made so little progress since the first dawning of reformation , being not yet got out of the borders of babylons form , and altogether in her lustful , proud , persecuting and wicked nature : for have not you protestant princes condemned that in others , which you have and do allow in your selves , contrary to your fore-fathers protestations ? did you not return severe persecutions , not onely upon the heads of the roman catholicks in queen elizabeth's time , who esteemed it antichristian in them ; but even your fellow protestants , who through zeal for god declared against your back-slidings ? witness her severity , and what followed in the reigns of james , and the deceased charles , but more particularly the many thousands now of late that have been club'd , bruised , imprisoned , exiled , poisened to death by stinking dungeons , and ruined in their outward estates , contrary to laws , christian or humane : therefore well may i take up the lamentation and reproof that was of old , ye make men offenders for a word , and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate ; ye turn aside the just for a thing of nought , and lay burthens upon the backs of the righteous , whilst evil doers pass unpunished ; you store up violence in your pallaces , and many are the oppressed that are amongst you ? yet do not your priests prophesie smooth things , that sew pillows under your arms , and cry peace ? who provoke you to slay those , by executing cruel acts that should not die and preach safety to them that should not live , like greedy dogs , shepherds that cannot understand , they all look for gain from their quarters ; they teach for hire , they divine for money , and you all judge for rewards ; for all which abominations god is departed ; vision is ceased , the sun is gone down over you , and your day is turned into thick darkness ; therefore it is you deny the necessity as well as the present enjoyment of revelation to any , though without it , as christ saith , no man can know god , whom to know is life eternal ; and place the ground of divine knowledge in humane arts and sciences , that thereby you may ingross a function to your selves , and keep up your trade of yearly gain upon the poor people ; preaching sin for tearm of life , thereby rendring invalid the glorious power of the second adam , and indulging people in transgression ; though be that sins is of the devil , and without holiness none shall see god ; ministers he never sent , but were commissionated by men , void of the holy ghost , and therefore ye profit not the people 's a badge inseparable to lying prophets , who run in their own name . come and tell me now , ye of the church of england , that say the scriptures are your rule , where do they own such persecutors , false prophets , tythmongers , denyers of revelation , opposers of perfection , men-pleasers , time-servers , unprofitable teachers , ( witness the abominations of the land ) extollers of humane learning , as the only way to know god ; admirers of universities , ( signal places for idleness , looseness , prophaneness , prodigality , and gross ignorance ; ) and where do we find the prophets , apostles , and servants of the lord , to live in worldly pomp , possess hundreds and thousands a year , be called lords of their brethren , and exercise civil and spiritual jurisdiction over the bodies and souls of christians in their dayes ? whence came your forms of prayers , and church-government , from the scriptures of truth , and the practice of the primitive christians , or the mass-book , and popish canons ? where is it that mass-houses are called churches ? and what president do you find for litanies , responses , singing , queristers , organs , altars , bowings , surplices , square caps , hoods , rockets , fonts , baby-baptism , holy dayes , ( as you call them ) with much more such like dirty trash , and foul superstition ? are these your scripture doctrines , and this the spiritual worship of holy jesus , his apostles , and the antient christians ? stand up and answer me ye members of the church of england ; but are they not the off-spring of that idolatrous popish generation , amounting at best to will-worship , which is abominable to the god of heaven , who is now breaking forth in vengeance , to thunder down and consume all the fair buildings , and pleasant pictures of babylonish inventions ? therefore from you may i expect an answer to the question i ask'd the romanists , in what nature and spirit is i● , o princes , priests , and people , you hold and profess religion , and worship towards god ? is it the divine and heavenly one which is pure and perfect ? are you baptized by the holy ghost , and with fire ; crucified through the daily cross to the world ; born again , and your affections set on things above ? but alas poor souls ! are you not at , have mercy upon us miserable sinners , there is no health in us , from seven to seventy ? and as in truth it is , to the shame of religion , and destruction of humane society ; how do you abound in evil ? equalizing , if not outstripping papists & heathens ( against whom you protest in words ) in all kinds of impiety : therefore woe unto you protestants , that are mighty to drink strong drink , that give your neighbours drink , and put the bottle to them that they may be drunk ; that put far away the evil day , and cause the seat of violence to come near ; that lie upon beds of ivory , and stretch your selves upon your couches ; that eat the fat of the flock , and drink the sweet of the vine ; that anoint your selves with the chief ointments ; that chant to the sound of the viol , and invent to your selves instruments of musick , but consider not the afflictions of joseph . how sport you away your precious time , as if ye were born not to die , at least never to be judged ? o what swearing , what uncleanness , what drunkenness , what prophanation , what vanity , what pride , what expence , what patching , what painting , what lascivious intrigues , what wanton appointments , what publick unclean houses , what merry masks , what lustful insinuating treats at your playes , parks , mulberry and spring-gardens , with whatsoever else may please the lustful eye , and gratifie the wanton mind ? is not this your case and practice , ye gallants , young and old , men and women ? and by these courses , have not debts surprized your estates , poverty plenty , diseases health , debauchery chastity ? whole families ruin'd both in soul and body ; yea , such a deluge of intemperance has so overwhelmed the nations , that hard it is to light upon sobriety and virtue . well my friends , when i ruminate on these things , my heart affects mine eye , and grief overcomes my soul for yor sakes ; repent therefore , o ye protestants , or else know that for all these things god almighty will bring you to judgment ; and in the day that his indignation shall be kindled , your religion of words shall fly away , and your lord lord cryings shall be rejected , because you were strangers to the spiritual nature ( though bablers of the name ) of true christianity , and therefore shall ye perish by the sword. now as for you separatists of divers names , although i shall not disallow the zeal that once you had , yet must i on god's behalf bear my testimony concerning you ; therefore be it known unto you all , that you are teaching and receiving for doctrines the traditions of men , running and striving in your own spirits , compassing your selves with the sparks of your own fire , being not yet come to stand still and know that will done on earth which is done in heaven ; you tell people , christ jesus has suffered and satisfied for sins past , present , and to come , and though never so corrupt , vile , and polluted in themselves , yet reconciled to , and justified in the sight of god , by his personal righteousness imputed unto them , and not from a work of grace or regeneration in the creature ; therefore no wonder at your vehement cries against a state of perfect separation from sin , as being a dangerous doctrine , who preach acceptation with the holy god , whilst in an unholy state ; you generally scoff at revelation as being ceast ; most of you also abetting god to have ordained a remnant absolutely to salvation , & consequently making sin as well as torment unavoidably necessary to the major part ; whereby the glorious god of mercy is represented more infamously unjust than the worst of men ; doctrines of devils indeed , and grounds of all looseness and ranterism ; and tho pleaders , & fighters for liberty of conscience when opprest ; the greatest oppressors , when in power , not minding the end of gods loving kindness : but because of your wanton neglect , is your day darkned , and your sun set , and grovelling you are in beggarly elements , imitations and shadows of the heavenly good things , relating to the dispensation of the second covenant , hoping by your many duties to be heard , and find acceptance , whilst very strangers to the covering of gods spirit , and ignorant of him ( whom to know is life eternal ) from the revelation of his eternal spirit , and operation of his mighty power , but from the conceivings and apprehensions of other men , and books well reputed , whereby gods grace and light have lost their office of leading and teaching : and thus true counsel becomes darkned , the fountain shut , the book sealed , and you in this state strangers unto god , so that you perish for want of sound knowledge ; for i declare and testifie on the behalf of gods everlasting way to life , and against you all , that you are yet in the mans spirit , which works not gods will and righteousness , being found helpers of the mighty against that pure and unchangeable principle of light , grace and life , in which god only did , does , and will reveal and manifest himself unto the sons and daughters of men , for which cause you are yet in your ups and downs , tossed to and from , not knowing the rock of ages , and foundation of many generations , which is that only holy seed , wherein the duties and performances of all nations only can be blessed , and from whence proceeds that pure , righteous , and immortal birth , to whom is the promise of an everlasting inheritance , but are sticking in your own imaginations , and patching out a peace unto your selves from your duties , performances , and the imitations of weak times and seasons in some perishing observations , that no way relate to the nature of the pure , spiritual and internal kingdom of peace , righteousness and joy in the holy ghost ; therefore well may i say , as once of old , wee unto thee capernaum , which art exalted unto heaven ; for if the mighty works that have been done in thee , had been done in tyre , sidon , or sodom , they would have repented in dust and ashes , and would have remained unto this day . wherefore o ye zealous professors , who in the spirit of a man are striving to comprehend the mystery of god , unless ye repent and believe in that light wherewith christ hath enlightned every man , that you may obtain to the true discerning of the spirit and nature in which you live and worship , that so you may come to witness the work and will of god , it shall be more tollerable for them in the day that god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ ; god will make them of the synagogue of sathan , who say , they are christians , and are not . therefore unto you princes , priests , and people , whether papists or protestants , or any other separated way , that are in your idolatry , superstition , carnal ordinances , and will-worship ; whose faith in , and fear towards god , are grounded on other mens apprehensions , perswasions and precepts , and not from the teaching of god's holy spirit or grace ; to you all am i constrained to sound forth & proclaim , that unto us , the most despised , afflicted and forsaken by all the families of the earth , is a child born , unto us a son is given ; we call him wonderful counsellor , the mighty god , the everlasting father , the prince of peace ; of the increase of whose government there shall be no end : this is he the prophet stiles , a light unto the gentiles , and for salvation unto the ends of the earth ; unto whom john baptist bore this certain record , that he was the true light which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world ; who also gave this testimony of himself , that whosoever followed him should not abide in darkness , but have the light of life , and the blood of jesus , ( saith the beloved disciple ) shall cleanse you from all sin . this is the second adam , the quickning spirit , the lord from heaven , the new and spiritual man , the heavenly bread , the true vine ; the flesh and blood that was given for the life of the world ; the second covenant ; the law writ in the heart and spirit , put in the inward parts ; the way in which the fool cannot err ; the truth , before deceit was ; the life that 's hid in god , eternal in the heavens , glorified before the world began ; the power , the wisdom , the righteousness of god ; the plant of renown ; the royal seed that bruiseth the serpents head ; in short , that grace which hath appeared unto all men , teaching them to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live godlikely , and soberly in this present world. he stands at the door of every heart , and knocks , if by any means he may be heard and have admittance , whereby god's promise may be fulfill'd , that god will dwell with men ; and my testimony is , that a remnant have obey'd this heavenly voice , and now walk in this pure light in which god almighty is known to tabernacle with them : therefore in the fear of god eternal do i cry aloud unto you all , who are wandering in the by-paths of mens inventions , traditions and precepts , to empty your hearts and minds of those unprofitable guests , that better entertainment than a manger may be had to receive this lord of glory ; the mighty prophet all must hear or die , who searcheth the heart , tryeth the reins , and is able to tell you all that ever you did : — this is the quakers christ , and son of the living god , whom we are not ashamed to confess before men , as that glorious light , which since we have believed and walked in , according to our distinct measures , we have not onely received a perfect discovery of all the will-worships , pollutions , and vain fashions , or customs that have been brought forth by , and stands in , the dark , lustful , and apostatiz'd nature ; but as we have continued in a holy watchfulness , to observe and obey its righteous dictates ; gods mighty power we have , and do experience to subdue and redeem therefrom ; yea , that spiritual blood is sensibly felt to sprinkle and cleanse the conscience from dead works . and to you all must i declare , that by no other way did i ever receive the knowledge of the least evil , or ability to conquer it , than in this universal light , who is given for a captain and a leader out of all the by-paths and petty perswasions of men , through judgment that purifies , and the red sea of troubles , tryals , and afflictions , unto the rest which is pure and undefiled ; this is gods beloved son , hear ye him ; for i proclaim , another way there is not to eternal life and peace , than this everlasting gospel which now is preached ; for the time is come that the angel of his presence is flying through the midst of heaven , having this antient gospel to preach to them that dwell upon the earth , and are in their earthly nature , wisdom , and worships , crying with a loud voice , fear god , and give glory to him , for the hour of his judgment is come : therefore away away with all your own wayes , works and worships that are grounded upon mens command , and fallible apprehensions , whose breath is in their nostrils ; and no more do homage according to such prescriptions , but fear and dread the living lord god of heaven and earth ; for if the righteous scarcely be saved , where shall the ungodly and sinner appear ? but woe , anguish , tribulation and sorrow shall come upon every soul that remains in sin . therefore be warned ye dark and idolatrous papists , ye superstitious and loose protestants , yea zealous , yet carnal professors , to come out of all your own wayes , works , worships , nature , spirit and practice ; in silence and fear to wait in this glorious light which god almighty has displayed , and raised us contemned quakers to walk in , and testifie of , in these last ages ; that by believing therein , and circumspectly adhering thereto , you may come to experience the rising of that eternal power which overcomes and removes transgression , that hath so long separated between you and your god , hereby shall you receive sound judgment and heavenly wisdom ; — this will not destroy , but fulfil the spriptures of truth , and so shall you know the baptism that 's from above , and eat the heavenly bread , and drink the spiritual wine at christs table , in his kingdom , which the saints of old saw the coming of before they tasted of death ; for the kingdom of god is within ; — here all old things , covevenant , signs , ordinances , and whatever perisheth with the using , shall be done away ; and the everlasting unchangeable substance witnessed ; and no more shall you profess religion , or perform worship from the imagining and transgressing nature , but from a certain sence of gods own operation ; so shall your faith stand in that power the gates of hell can never prevail against : for this i once more am necessitated to declare , by vi●●ue of the sound knowledge given me of god , that whilst you are fulfilling the lusts of the flesh , and walking after your own will and imaginations , you are altogether strangers to the yoak , to the daily cross , and self-denying life , but are yet the corrupt ground , and evil tree , which bring forth evil fruits , thorns , briars , and sowr grapes ; be ye undeceived , god will not be mocked ; such as you sow , such shall you reap : — wherefore i intreat , advise , and warn you all , before the day of your visitation be shut up , in the eternal withdrawings of god's love , and revelation of his dreadful endless vengeance , o ye idolatrous , superstitious , carnal , proud , wanton , unclean , mocking and persecuting princes , priests and people , to repent ; return , return , believe and obey this light , which manifests and reproves all your evil deeds , that in it you may know your redemption from the captivity of sin effectually wrought . o tremble and quake with the prophet habakkuk , you who scoff at quakers , that you may all rest in the day of trouble . but if you shall still go on to rebel against the reproofs and instructions of this holy light , and despise and persecute the children of it ; be it known to you all , that before the brightness of its glory shall your shadows vanish , your imitations fly away , your beggerly elements melt , and you die in your sins . nor shall we be sollicitous what your intentions are concerning us , well knowing him in whom we have believed , to be much greater in us than he that is in the world , who in love hath call'd us out of it , and we doubt not will by his everlasting arm of strength defend and preserve us over all opposition , and by us exalt his name , truth , and salvation unto the ends of the earth . therefore let the winds of imagination blow , the storms of persecution beat , and the sea of raging malice foam ; yea , though the fig-tree shall not blossom , neither fruit be in the vine ; though the labour of the olive fail , and the fields yeeld not their meat ; though the flock be cut off from the fold , and there be no herd in the stalls ; though nations should combine against us , and multitudes assemble themselves to our overthrow ; — yet , be it reported to the nations , and let it be told unto the people , that we shall still confide and rejoyce in that everlasting holy god almighty , lord of hosts , and king of saints , who hath gathered us ; and therefore is by us over all things in heaven , and things on earth , blest and renown'd for ever . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e isa . . , , , mat. . rev. . , , . chap. . , . acts . , . isa . . amos . . jer. . . ezek. . , . isa . . , . mic. . , , . joh. . . john . , , , . heb. . . jer. . . act. , , , . col. . . isa . . , . amos . , , , . mat. . . isa . . . gen. . . gal. . rom. . mat. , . joh. . . rev. . . isa . . , . c. . . john . , , . c. . . john . . cor. . . john . , , isa . . . jer. . , , . john . cor. . . ezek. . . gen. . tit. . , . rev. . deut. , , . jer. . . john . . heb. . . ch . . . rev. , . pet. . luk , . job . . gal. . , . hab. . . tim. , . john . . hab. . , . the true state of christianity, truly discribed, and also discovered unto all people what it was in its beginning and purity, and what it now is in its apostacy and degeneration ... / written by ... edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the true state of christianity, truly discribed, and also discovered unto all people what it was in its beginning and purity, and what it now is in its apostacy and degeneration ... / written by ... edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for thomas simmons ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. an attack on outward forms of worship and on state interference in religious matters. eng society of friends. christianity -- controversial literature. freedom of religion. posture in worship. church and state -- great britain. a r (wing b ). civilwar no the true state of christianity, truly discribed, and also discovered unto all people. what it was in its beginning and purity, and what it n burrough, edward d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the true state of christianity , truly discribed , and also discovered unto all people . what it was in its beginning and purity , and what it now is in its apostacy and degeneration . and hereby , by true testimony is declared to the whole world ; how & wherin , in divers particulars , the christians through all the world ( so called ) now , are fallen and gone backward , and revolted from what the true christians once were . and this sheweth unto all the world , the woful state and condition , wherein them that are called christians now standeth , being departed and revolted from the spirit of christ , and from its teachings . and this is given forth , that all people may understand concerning the times , and the changing of times , and concerning what hath been , what now is , and what suddenly cometh to pass in the earth . written by a friend to the creation : a servant of the lord , edward burrough . printed for thomas simmons at the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . a table of the contents whereby all may come 〈◊〉 understand what the subject is , and the particulars which in this volumn is declared . first , concerning the name of christian , and how and when the people of god were first so called ; and also of the increase thereof through world . secondly , concerning the decrease , and degeneration of the christians , and how and when the apostacy came upon them which hath overshadowed them for many ages . thirdly , concerning wherein , and in what particulars they are fallen , and degenerated , from the life and practice of true christianity . first , in respect of being made christians , and receiving the name ( herein they differ ) and are not agreeable to what the christians once were . and secondly , in respect of the operation of the spirit of christ . thirdly , in respect of unity and fellowship . fourthly , in respect of holinesse , and purity of life and conversation . fifthly , in respect of the ministry : . in its call . . in its practises . . in its maintenance . sixthly , in respect of worship , and of that in many particulars , is shewed the degeneration of christianity . seventhly , the present state of christians ( so called ) truly measured , and compared with the state of the jews in their rebellion , and found altogether equal , and agreeable in many things . eighthly , a true testimony against all that abomination and idolatrous worship now practised amongst the christians ( so called ) with many other things , &c. to all people upon earth that are called christians , this is a faithful and true testimony concerning you . behold and hearken , give ear and listen diligently all ye people through the whole world that are called christians ; all you i say , that goes under that name , and that bears that name , and are named christians , from one end of the earth to the other , through all nations and countrys whether you are scattered , upon the face of the whole earth ; behold and take notice what the word of the lord is unto you , and what the testimony of christ is towards you all , for the line of true judgement is laid upon you , and the measuring rod is put forth to reach over you , and the servant of the lord hath viewed your state and condition , and what you were in your beginning and increase , and what you now are , in your decrease and woful apostacy , into which you are fallen and degenerated from the life of christianity . oh , let your ears be open to instruction , and regard well what i through the lord do say unto you , even all you , and every particular of you under heaven , that makes a profession of christ in words , and are known through the world by that name of christians ; hearken i say and consider , and remember from whence , and into what you are fallen , and return and repent , the lord hath with you a controversie , and he will plead with you , because of your back-slidings and revoltings , for you are gone away backward , and you are turned aside from the life of christ , and from his spirit , and are now without that which was the reason and true ground of your name , christian , and you have lost the true character of the name , and now hath onely the name without the life and power thereof , and are dead to christ and his life , and hath a name to live , but are dead , and having lost that which gave you a true title to the name of christian , you deserve no●… that name , nor to be called by the name of christ , because you are departed from his spirit ; and this is to be declared to you in the name of the lord , that you may take a view of your own estate , to the end that you may be awakened to return from whence you are degenerated . the lord had a people in all generations , unto whom he was a god , and they feared him , and served him , and worshipped him , and his name was pretious amongst them , who were his chosen people , and with whom he dwelt , and his power and presence was amongst his people that did walk with him , under what name soever they went in the world ; but the first time that ever the people of the lord were called christians , or was known by that name from other people , it was at antioch , in the time of the apostles , who were followers of christ , as you may read , acts . . and the disciples were called christians first in antioch , and before that time the people of the lord were never called christians , and this name was given to them by the heathen , because they were for christ and of his part , and did follow him , and preach him to be followed , and in all things exalted his name , and did and suffered all things for the name of christ , therefore were they named christians , and that name was true unto them , for they had upon them the express image and character of christ , and followed his spirit , and preached him unto all people for life and salvation , and that all people might come to christ and become followers of him , and therefore they were rightly named christians , to be known by that name from all other people upon earth , who were not followers of christ , who could not rightly be called christians , because they were not of his part ; and from thenceforth unto this day , all people whatsoever that believed in christ , and became followers of him , and that professed him , were called christians , from that original and foundation of the name which then was laid , also you may read acts . . v. and a●…rippa said unto paul , almost thou perswadest me to be a christian ; here again paul followed christ and preached him , and was on his part altogether , and highly extolled his name ; therefore king agrippa called him christian , and was almost perswaded to be a christian , to wit , a man for christ , to take part with him , and to be on his side , and the name interpreted , this is the signification , and all that hath this character doth truly deserve the name of christians , for they are anointed people , and this was the beginning of the christian name : and before that time , as i have said , were the people of god never called christians in any generation ; and ever since that time , through all ages , all that professed christ , and believed in him , throughout the whole world were called by the name of christians , and the name and religion of christians were honourable , and greatly beloved of god , for that people were the peculiar people , a chosen generation , as you may read , pet. . . and whilst the life of christ was manifest , and the spirit of christ did lead them and teach them in all their wayes and practices of religion , and whilst i say they retained the power and life of that , of which they had the name , the power and presence of the lord was amongst them , and above all the people of the earth were they blessed , and more then all people upon the earth besides had they the countenance of god shining amongst them , and upon them , and pure unity with god , and one with another , had they in his life , whereby they were made a terror and a fear to all nations while they stood in the councel of god , and were christians in life , and power , and practice , as well as in name , and the lord greatly increased them in number ; for as you may read through the acts of the apostles , through all the world many believed in christ , and became followers of him , and received the knowledge of him , and became anointed people , and received the name of christians , sometimes thousands at one sermon were converted to the faith of christ , and became subject to his spirit , and had his mark upon them , and all such were called christians , and the apostles went through many nations , and of the iews and greeks , and of the heathen , and all other people , some of each were converted , from that way in which they had walked , to follow christ , and they became christians , and here was the increase of christianity , and through many 〈◊〉 of the world they planted churches and assemblies of christians ; and as i said , while they stood in the councel 〈◊〉 , the name and religion , was of him greatly beloved . but now the christians are apostatized , and degenerated from the spirit of christ ; and from that which gave the●… the true name of christian , and the name is retained onely ; and the life and power lost : and now many have a name to live , but are dead ; and that is departed from , which gave the true interest and title in the name . hear this all ye christians , that life , light and power of god , which was amon●… the apostles and christians once , you are departed from , and have lost the sence and knowledge of , and hath the na●…e and not the thing , which was the reason and ground of the name : wherefore all ye through the world , that are called christians , look back to your original , look unto the apostle●… who were the first that were called christians , from who●… you had the name , and see how you are degenerated and 〈◊〉 len from the life that they were in , and though you retain the name of christians , yet you are not followers of christ , no●… taught by his spirit , and none in the dayes of the apostle●… were truly counted or called christians , but who followed the spirit of christ , and were first converted to him , and changed by his power from sin to righteousness , and from●… death to life , and such as were so , were truly called christians . but now all such as are called by that name , and 〈◊〉 not followers of the spirit of christ , nor converted to hi●… ▪ neither changed by his power from death to life , and 〈◊〉 sin to righteousness , such are in the degeneration , from 〈◊〉 life of christianity , and hath a name without the life 〈◊〉 power thereof . and now it remains to be shewed , how and when the degeneration came upon the christians , and wher●…in they are apostatized and degenerated from that life , and spirit and practice which was amongst the apostles th●…t were first called christians . the spirit of the lord spoke through the apostles , and foretold of a falling away from the truth , and from the true christian life , and paul said , acts , , . said he , grievous ●…olves shall arise and enter in , who would not spare the flock , 〈◊〉 from among themselves should men arise , speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them ; and he also said , tim. . . that some should depart from the faith , and give heed to seducing spirits ; and he also said , that it should come to pass , that people should become wicked , departing from the truth , having the form of godliness , but denying the power thereof ; and such were led away with divers lusts , and men of corrupt minds , and reprobate concerning the faith ; and the apostle ●…eter also foretold , that there should false teachers arise among the christians , who should bring in damnable heresies , and many christians should follow their pernicious wayes , by reason of which , the way of truth should be evil spoken of ; and the apostle iohn 〈◊〉 that many false prophets were gone out then , and many antichrists were then come in among the christians ; now all these doth shew and declare of a degeneration and falling away of christians from the life of christianity , and we see these prophe●…ies fulfilled , and flocks of christians are devoured from the life of christ , by devouring wolves which hath entred among them , who hath led them into pernicious wayes , and into damnable heresies , whereby the name of christianity is become reproachful among the heathens , that never were called christians ; and many thousands are departed from the true faith , from that faith which did purifie the hearts of the saints , and many of the christians have given heed to seducing spirits , and hath the form of godliness , but denyes the power thereof , and they are led of divers lusts , and are become men of corrupt minds , and are reprobate , and without the true faith ; and the apostles prophesied of the degeneration which we see fulfilled in these our dayes , and even while some of the apostles were yet living , they saw the christians apostatizing and falling away , and the spirit of the lord spoke through iohn , rev. . . to the christian churches in asia , who were already departing from the christian life , some of them was departed already from their first work , and some of them were given to the doctrine of b●…laam , and to the doctrine of the nicolaitans , which thing the lord did hate , and others of them were seduced by jezabel , and taught to commit fornication , and to eat things sacrificed unto idols , and others o●… them had a name to live , but were dead , and others of them were neither hot nor cold , and the lord said he would 〈◊〉 them out of his mouth . now here the christians were falling away you may see , and as before it had increased , so now the true christian life began to decrease , and the glory thereof became darkned through all asia : and also rev. . . . . iohn saw one beast arise out of the sea , and another out of the earth , which set up a kingdom over the whole world , and caused all people upon earth to worship the beast , & the beast hath been great in his power , and he hath ruled over the world in great dominion ; and all that would not worship him , he hath had power to kill , and hath killed them , so that the true christian life and religion , as the apostles received it and practised it , hath been extinguished for many generations , and people hath had the form of godlinesse , but denied the power , and lived under the name and profession of christianity , but hath been without the life , and this is to be considered of and diligently searched into , by all you that go under the name of christians through all the world , for unto you onely i direct my words . and now it remains to be shewed what the state of christians are at this day , and wherein particularly they are apostatized and degenerated from the true life and practize of the postles who were the f●…rst christians ; for wherin the christians now are contrary and not agreeable to the apostles , in faith , in practice , in worship , in ministry , and in the enterance into christianity , and in any other thing whatsoever . i say , wherein they are contrary , and not agreeable to the true christians of old , to wit , the apostles , therein are they degenerated and fallen from the true life of christianity , and this shall be the rule of judgement to try all you that are called christians upon the face of the earth ; wherefore awake and come forth to judgement , for the measuring rod is laid upon you all , whereby you shall be truly measured and compared with them that were the first christians upon earth ; and the heathens shall see your nakedness and your shame , and hiss at you , when they behold how wofully you are fallen from that 〈◊〉 in the purity thereof , of which you do professe the words , 〈◊〉 shall not they rise up in judgement against you ; who never had the name of christians , who are not fallen nor degressed from what they have profest in any measure , comparable to you , who now retaineth onely the name of christian 〈◊〉 are departed from the life of christ . first , concerning the entrance into christianity , and the way and means whereby people are now made christians , 〈◊〉 receives that name ; in this will your fall and degeneration appear . for the apostles and first christians upon earth , before they were christians , or were called so , they were first converted , and changed and translated from death to life , as you 〈◊〉 read , iohn . . and col. . . and they first received christ , and became followers of him , and received his spirit to teach them , and to guide them : for the apostle said , if any man have not the spirit of christ he is none of his , rom. . . to wit , no christians ; and the apostle said , as many as were the sons of god , were led by the spirit of god ; and also it was promised by christ to all that were his , the comforter should come , the spirit of truth ▪ and he should lead them into all truth ; which promise , all that were christians did receive , and they were led into all truth by the teachings of the spirit of christ , which dwelt in them ; for all that were sons , god sent the spirit of his son into their hearts , which spirit sanctified them through the obedience thereof . now these were christians , and were truly so called ; for they had the mark of christ and his image upon them , and he dwelt in their hearts by faith , ephes. . . these i say were truly called christians ; and none but such at that day of their original were called christians , or had fellowship in the christian life : nor were any looked upon by the apostles to be christians but by them that were such . but look back all ye christians upon earth , and see your ●…all , and wherein you are contrary , and not agreeable to the true christians in their first and pure estate . i say look back to your original , and see how you are apostatized from them in your entrance into your profession of christianity ; fo●… though you have the name of christians , yet you were no●… made so ▪ nor received that name by being first converted and changed , and translated from death to life , and 〈◊〉 being the children of disobedience , to be the children of god , through the work and operation of the spirit of god in you , for hereof are thousands and ten thousands of christians now wholly ignorant , and altogether without the feeling of the spirit of god , to change them , to convert them , and to translate them , but are accounted christians b●… tradition , or natural education , and because of being sprinkled with a little water upon the face , being infant●… , or by a bare confession and profession of the name of christ in words , and professing of a bare belief in the scriptures , by this way and means were you made ( and received you the name of ) christians without any real change from darkness to light , and from satan to god , as i have said . now here appeares to be a woful degeneration in the very entrance of the thing , and this is not agreeable , but rather contrary unto that way of christianity , wherein the christians in their beginning were so made and called , for then none were christians , or so called , but who through the preaching of the gospel were first converted , changed , and renewed as i have ●…aid , but now in these nations all are called christians that are sprinkled upon their faces with water by a teacher , when they are infants , or that doth but professe christ in words , though they are not guided particulerly by his spirit ; neither hath received christ to dwell in them , and to be king over them , and here again appeares a wo●…ul apostacy : for none in the beginning of christianity in the world were made christians , or so called , but who received christ , and in whom he dwelt , and was in them : as you may read , cor. . . and who were followers of him , and had his spirit in them , the comforter to teach them and to lead them into all truth , but now thousands upon thousands who hath the name of christians , have not received christ to dwell in 〈◊〉 nor to rule them , neither is he manifest in them by his spirit to teach them , and they are not led into all truth ; but lives in 〈◊〉 and unrighteousness , and are not followers of christ , 〈◊〉 followes their own hearts desires , and their own hearts lusts : and are condemned in their own consciences , and hath not received the comforter , the holy spirit , to be their guide and leader out of all unrighteousness ; and here appears a woful degeneration : and that you christians through all the world are revolted and gone backward from christianity , as it was in its original ; a lamentation may be taken up because of this woful fall into which you christians are fallen : consider of your own state , and return , and repent . again , the christians were begotten of god , and born of him , joh. . . and they were born of the word of god ▪ and of the incoruptible seed ; pet. . . and they were created in christ iesus unto good works , eph. . . and they were new creatures , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things were done away , cor. . . they had put off the body of sin and death , ●…oll . . and were the servants of right●… and free from sin , rom. . as you may read ; but now also , woful are you christians degenerated from this ; for thousands upon thousands of you are not born nor begotten of god , though you have the name of christians , neither are you born of the word of god which lives for ever , nor of the incoruptible seed , neither are created again : nor become new creatures ; nor have put off the body of sin and death , neither are the servants of righteousness , nor free from sin . but on the contrary , are the servants of sin , and free from righteousness , and are in the corruptible state , and are old creatures , and are not washed , nor purified , as the saints were , as you may read , cor. . . and here is a woful degeneration of the christians now , from what the christians were in the beginning : the christians then were new creatures ; and put off the body of sin , and were washed , and sanctified ; but the christians now , are not so , but the contrary , to wit , unwashed and unsanctified , remaining in the pollutions of the world , and are of the birth which is born of the flesh , and are in the old nature , serving sin and the lusts of their own hearts , and thus are you fallen from that which the true christians possessed ; for being compared to them , you are not agreeable but rather contrary to them in all these things ; and the lord is now come to search you and to try you ; and to all people shall you be discovered , for the lord is now risen to bring all to tryal and to judgement ; and again , herein will the apostacy of the christians appear , in respect of unity and fellowship , for the christians in their beginning while yet the life of god was not darkened amongst them , they were of one heart , and one mind , and one soul as you may read , acts the . . and the lord promised that he would give unto his people one heart and one way : and ezek the . . the lord promised to give his people one heart and a new spirit : which promise the christians received , and they that believed were of one bea rt and there was no lack amongst them , but some sold their possessions , and distributed to them that had need : and they were members of christ ▪ and he was head amongst them , and over them : and they were flesh of his flesh , and bone of his bones , eph. . . . and all the christians were of one faith , eph. . and had unity and fellowship in the life which was made manifest in them ; for they had tasted and handled , and seen , and heard , the word of life , and they had fellowship with the father , and with his son jesus christ . but all ye christians upon earth , how are you degenerated , and how great is your fall in this , for you are not of one heart and mind , nor in unity and fellowship one with another , but are of divers sorts & sects , and are run into many opinions , and devisions , and are of many ways , and minds , and hearts ; divers sorts there are of papists , and divers sorts of 〈◊〉 so called , which are all divided in opinions , and striving , and contending about faith and religion , and the worship of god , and are opposing one another , and putting one another to death , because of a difference in those things ; how great is the difference through many nations amongst christians about those things ? which sheweth that the christians are wofully fallen in respect of unity , and it is manifest such christians have not received the promise of god , as the apostles had ; for now the christians can suffer one another to lack , and to perish , and die and starve for hunger and want : 〈◊〉 in this all ye christians generally how you are fallen ; then in the beginning of christianity , no lack nor want was amongst them ; they that had much , sold it , and gave to them that had none ; but now thousands are oppressed through want , while others have too much ; some are feeding and cloathing excessively with their multitude of dishes , and changes of rayment , while others hath scarce whereon to feed , or to cover their nakedness ; and this manifesteth that you are not members of the body of christ , neither is he head in you , nor amongst you , but you are members of an harlot , and joyned to a h●…rlot , and one with a harlot , for you profess many faiths ; some say they believe christ is given to all , others believes not so ; some say they believe he died for all , others they say , they believe contrary to that ; and thus the one faith which the apostles had , the christians of this generation have lost , and they have lost the one head christ , and hath many heads , every sect hath their head , many heads among the protestants , many heads among the papists , but thus it was not in the beginning of christianity ; therefore you christians are subverted from the true life of christ ; the christians then were of one faith , but now of many ; the christians then had one head christ , but now the christians ( so called ) hath many heads ; the christians then could lay down their life one for another , and were written in the hearts of one another by the spirit of the living god ; but the christians now , are in envy one towards another , and in strife one with another ; the great men doth oppress the poor , and they go to law one with another for earthly things , and one stealing from another , and one hanging another , and murdering one another , and making slaves one of another , and robbing one another , and seeking utterly to destroy one another , and yet such hath the name of christians , amongst whom all this is acted ; but consider how woful is your fall , and how wicked is your degeneration from the life of god , and from the true christian life and unity , which was amongst them in their beginning , then they were of one heart , and of one way , but now divided , and in strife and contention about religion , and the worship of god , and also about earthly things , for which they destroy one 〈◊〉 ▪ and seek so to do ; then they could lay down their life one for another , but now they are taking the life one from another , through wickedness , a woful apostacy , and great night of darkness is upon you ; then none amongst them had lack of any thing , nor none destroyed through wasting any thing upon their lusts , but now thousands perisheth for want , while others hath too much , and are destroying it upon their lusts ; then had the christians one head christ , but now the b●…ast reigns that hath many heads ; then they were of one faith ▪ but now the christians profess many faiths ; then the christians handled , saw , heard and felt , of the word of life in the●… , and they had fellowship with the father and with the son , but now thousands of thousands of christians are without the sence , and feeling , and knowledge of the word of life in them , and walks in darkness and in ignorance , and hath no fellowship with the father nor with the son . behold , behold ye christians , how ye are fallen , and how great is your fall ! a mourning and lamentation may be taken up for you , the garment of righteousness is rent from you , and the beauty of the son of god appears not upon you : 〈◊〉 , alas , what doth it advantage you , to have the name of christians , seeing you are thus wofully degenerate from that love , unity and life , in the fellowship of god , which was among the apostles , who were the first christians , and from whom ye derived the name , but are without the life , as hereby i●… manifest to all the world . again , herein doth the apostacy of christians appear , in respect of holiness and purity of life ; for the christians were of a holy life and conversation , the apostle said , thes. . god hath not called them unto uncleanness , but unto holiness ; and as you may read , tit ▪ . the aged men were to be sober , grave , temperate , sound in the faith , in charity , in patience ; and the aged women likewise , their behaviour was to be as became holiness , and the young women were to be discreet , and chaste , and young men were to be sober minded , and servants were to be obedient to their masters , and to shew good fidelity ; for saith the apostle unto the christians , the grace of god had appeared , teaching them to live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present 〈◊〉 for that end was christ given , that he might redeem them from all iniquity , and purifie unto himself a peculiar people , zealous of good works . now here in short is a description of the true christian life and conversation , which was exhorted to , and no doubt but practiced by the christians , in the dayes when christ was manifest amongst them ; but from this practice are the christians degenerated : for , how are the aged men and women now given to covetousness , and earthly-mindedness , and are pi●…vish , and perverse , and immoderate , and in the works that are evil , shewing that they are not in the apostles doctrine , and not in the christian life , but to it are become dead , bringing forth fruits contrary to the fruits that the aged men and women brought forth in the beginning of christianity , shewing they are not of a holy life and conversation as the christians were , and ought to be ; and also how are the young men , and the young women degenerated from the true christian life , and now are given to wantonness and pleasures of the world , and the lusts which are evil ; following vanity , and pride , and vain glory , and masters , and servants being corrupt in their places , serving themselves one of another , and making a prey one upon another ; and thus all sorts of christians are fallen from the christian life , and holy conversation , and sheweth that they own not the grace of god , which hath appeared to all men to be their teacher , 〈◊〉 the true christians once did , for it is manifest that the christians now ( so called ) hath not denied all ungodliness and worldly lusts , neither doth live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world , as the christians did ; but on the contrary , how , are ye christians fallen from the pure and holy life , abounding in wickedness , and in all ungodliness ▪ how doth pride abound among christians ? how doth lying , swearing , drunkenness and whoredom , and all the works of the flesh abound ; dissimulation , back-biting , envy , wrath , and all that ever c●…n be called evil is abounding amongst ye christians so called ? this shews that your apostacy is great , from that life & conversation which the apostles and churches of christians were in , who had denied all ungodlin●…s and worldly lusts , but generally ye live in all ungodlin●…h and worldly lusts ; judge ye of this back ▪ sliding into which you are fallen ; they were taught to live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world , but ye live unrighteously and ungodly , and out of the fear of god , and the grace of god is not your teacher as it was theirs ; also you may read how much the apostles exhorted the christians to a holy life and conversation ; the apostle said , cor. . . the temple of god is holy , which temple ye are , speaking to the christians , and he said , eph. . . they were chosen in christ , that they should be holy and without blame before him , in love ; and col. . . they that had been sometimes enemies to god in their minds , were reconciled to present them holy and unblameable in his sight . and pet. . . the apostle exhorted the christians to be holy in all manner of conversation ; and phil. . . the christians witnessed that their conversations were in heaven . now herein doth the fall of christians appear , in respect of their life , and conversation , and walking ; for the christians in the apostles dayes were of a holy life , and exhorted all thereunto , but the christians now , teachers and people , are degenerate in their conversation , and lives in all unrighteousness as i have said ; and the conversation of christians now , being compared with what the christians conversation was then , it is altogether contrary , and sheweth , that though you have the name of christians , ye are not followers of christ , nor led by his spirit , but by the spirit of antichrist . oh , how wofully are you fallen you christians from the life of christ ▪ having a name to live , but are dead ; the lord god is coming against you , to break you to pieces , for you have poluted his name in that you profess to be his people in words , but in works doth deny him . oh remember , remember , from whence you are fallen , and return , least the anger of god consume you from off the earth , for your conversations greatly dishonour the true god ; oh what gluttony and drunkenness is amongst christians ? what pride and vain glory ? what cruelty , envy and murder one against another ? what whoredoms and fornication ? what cozening ? what cheating ? how doth all wickedness abound amongst you , in your lives and 〈◊〉 ; let the lord be witness , and your own consciences be witnesses against you for your abominations ; they that were true christians , who followed christ , lived not in , but were redeemed from such transgressions , but you live in them , and acts them , wherefore be ye witnesses against your selves , that ye are fallen and digressed from the true christian estate . again , herein will you christians appear to be degenerated from true christianity in respect of your ministery ; for the ministers of christ in the 〈◊〉 of christianity they were made ministers by the gift of the holy spirit , which was given to them ; for they were commanded to wait at ierusalem for the promise of the father , and they were not to go forth till they had received power from god by the gift of his holy spirit , and when that was come , they should be witnesses and ministers of christ , acts . and as they were waiting with one accord in one place , the holy ghost fell among them and filled them , and then they began to speak as the spirit gave them utterance , and they went up and down , and testified to the world of what they had heard and seen , acts . . now this was the call of christian ministers , and this was the authority by which they went forth into the world , to wit , the spirit of god poured upon them , and by authority of this onely they went up and down the world , and declared what they had handled , seen and tasted of the word of of life , iohn 〈◊〉 and as every man had received the gift , so they might minister the same one to another , pet. . . and this was the practise of the christian ministers in the beginning of christianity , concerning their call to the minist●…ry . but how is the christians here d●…generated from what the apostles were in , for by another way then this are your ministers made , not by the gift of the holy ghost received from god , neither do the christians now wait for such a thing , to go forth by authority and power thereof , but they are made ministers by natural learning , and education at school , having authority by man , and are ●…pproved of man and not of god , and a man knows who of his children he will make ministers , when they are infants , and thereupon pu●…s him to schools to learn arts and knowledge of earthly things , 〈◊〉 so long time , till he have gained so much knowledge and craft to be approved of such and such men ( and as is 〈◊〉 knowledge , and opportunity serves ; withal , having a grea●… place provided , where there is great store of maintenance ) such a man becomes a minister and a preacher to others , having never received , nor thought to receive the gi●…t of the holy ghost , neither having heard , se●…n , tasted , nor handled any thing of the word of life from g●…d in his own particular ; neither hath he received the gift of christ to be made a minister by : this sheweth greatly your degen●…ration from the true christian spirit ; none then ministers among christian●… ▪ but them who had received the gift by the holy ghost , and power from on high ; but now ministers are made and approved , and sent forth amongst christians , because of natural learning and education , without receiving the gift 〈◊〉 the holy spirit ; and the ministers of christ then spoke 〈◊〉 the spirit gave them utterance , but now ministers studies fo●… what they speak , and reads old authors to gather forth matte●… to preach to the people ; then the christian ministers heard , and tasted , and handled of the word of life in themselves ; but now the ministers hath their knowledge from book●… , and what they have heard and read without them . oh how great is your apostacy ye christians ! and in respect of your ministry , how greatly are you degenerated from the ministry which the christians once had ? be hold & consider this all ye christians upon earth , your ministry is proved not to agree , but rather to be contrary to that ministry which was amongst christians in the purity of christianity , as hereby is manifest ; and you are fallen from the ministry made by the gift of the holy ghost , to a ministry made by natural learning ; consider all ye christians how great is this fall . again , in respect of the maintenance of your ministry , your degeneration doth appear , for the ministers of christ amongst christians , as they were called by the spirit , so they were maintained in the work of their ministry by the free gift of the people , who received their ministry , and they were to give freely , and minister freely , as they had received freely , 〈◊〉 . . . cor. ▪ . the apostle preached the gospel of god 〈◊〉 , and would not make it chargeable to any ▪ . cor. . . and the ministers of christ among christians at that day , went through the world and preached freely the things that they had received from god , and they sought no mans money , nor g●…d , nor apparel , acts . . and saith the apostle , cor. . i seek not yours , but you , and that was their end altogether to bring people to god by their ministry , onely christ did allow , luke . . into whatsoever house they entred that was worthy , they might there abide , eating and drinking such things as were set before them ; and it was the apostles practice sometimes to reap carnal things , where they had sown spiritual things , and it was a small matter that they did so ; yet by a free gift they desired to reap it , and not by force and violence , did they ever obtain any thing . but concerning this ; great is the degeneration of christians in this generation , for now the ministers amongst you christians are maintained by an outward power , through compelling maintenance of tithes and other set wages , from the people , even from them that doth not receive their ministry , and they do not preach freely , but makes their preaching chargeable to whole nations , and the maintaining of christian ministers is become a burthen to whole nations , and great oppressions upon the poor ; and now the ministers seeks mens mony ; and gold ; and it doth not appear that they only seek a people to god , but on the contrary they seek peoples mony to themselves ; and it doth not sa●… the ministers now to eat & drink such things that is set before them in a house that is worthy , but they must have so much a year , and so much a sermon , and so much from every particular man of his parish be they worthy or unworthy ; to the value , of . or l. by the year ; whereby poor people are greatly oppressed ; and they will reap carnal things by force and violence ; from them to whom they sow no spiritual things ; for they are suing at law , and putting in prison , and distraining peoples goods by force and cruelty , to maintain them and their familes in pride and idleness , which things the christian ministers formerly in the dayes of the apostles never did ; but were often under great sufferings , in 〈◊〉 often , and in cold and nakedness often : labouring with their hands ; . cor. . . wherefore ye christians , behold how you are fallen and how your ministry is degenerated both in its call & in its maintenance , being diverted 〈◊〉 contrary to what the christian ministry was once ; behold i say how you are fallen : and your ministry quite subverted , from what the ministry was in the dayes of the apostles ; then the maintenance of ministers was by a free gift from them that received their ministry , and they would not make their ministry chargeable to any , but now the maintenance of ministers is by force and cruelty , and great oppression of many people , and their preaching is chargeable to many nations ; then they sought no man gold nor mony , nor sought ●…ot riches from the people , but onely sought the people to god ; but now mens m●…ney and riches are sought and taken ●…rom them by violence , without regard of seēking people , or bringing people to god ▪ then to eat and drink ( in a house that was worthy ) such thing●… as were set before them , and to reap carnal things , as meat , and drink , and necessaries , by a free gift , from them that received their ministry , thi●… was a sufficient maintenance for the christian ministers , but now so many hundred pounds by the year , to maintain themselves and their families in pride and idleness , and to reap it by compulsion and injustice from poor people ; in this manner are the christian ministers now maintained , which i●… mani●…est to be quite contrary to the practice of christian ministers in the apostles dayes . behold your fall ye christians , and how you are degenerated ; the lord is come to try you , and to search you , y●…u are weighed and are found too light , you are measured and are found wanting ; what the christians were once in their purity , you are no●… in many things , but the contrary , which sheweth that you have the name of christians 〈◊〉 ●…y tradition , but are without the life , and being paralel●…'d with the christians who truly followed christ , you are no whit equal to them in any thing , but wholly contrary in all things , shewing you follow another spirit , then they who were followers of the spirit of christ , so 〈◊〉 to the whole world , that you are degenerate out of christ the true vine , and are branches in a degenerate stock , which brings fr●…it forth through you , which honours not god , but grieves his pure spirit , and be ye witnesses against your selves , that you are fallen and degenerate from that life and practice which was amongst the apostles and christians , again , as concerning your worship , which is now practiced amongst you christians through the world ; herein also will your apostacy greatly appear , for the worship of the christians was one , and guided by one spirit , and was in the spirit and in the truth , saith christ , iohn ▪ concerning the worship of christians , god is a spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in spirit and in truth , and saith the apostle , we are the circumcision that worship god in spirit , and rejoyces in christ iesus , and hath no confidence in the flesh , phil. . . and these were christians , and also , rom ▪ . they worshipped god not in the oldness of the letter , but in the newness of the spirit , and the spirit guided them in all thing●… , and was their teacher in all their worship ; for the spirit taught them to pray , and they prayed in the spirit , and they knew not 〈◊〉 they should pray for as they ought , but the spirit made interc●…ssion for them , rom. . . and the christians were exhorted to pray in the holy ghost , jud ▪ . and the preaching of christians , it was in the spirit , and by the teachings of the spirit ; for they preached as the spirit gave them utterance , acts . and philip was led by the spirit , and the spirit of the lord moved philip to go and preach to the eunuch , acts . and the apostles went up and down , as they were moved and led by the spirit , and preached and prayed in what place , and at what time and season as the spirit moved them , and gave them utterance ; sometime in the fields , and sometime in houses , this was the practice of the christians in their preaching and praying ; and also the apostle said , i will pray with the spirit , and with understanding , and i will sing with the spirit , and with understanding ; and he exhorted the christians to 〈◊〉 in psalms and spiritual songs , singing to the lord , and making melody in their hearts to him , eph. . . n●…w this is the ●…mony concerning what the worship of christians was , its manifest that it was in the spirit , and by the teaching●… of 〈◊〉 spirit , their preaching , praying and singing , were in the 〈◊〉 ▪ taught and exercised therein by the spirit which they had received from god . but now the worship of christians at this day , is not agreeable to this , but being laid to the line of judgement , is proproved contrary ; for first the christians now are divided in their worship , and hath many forms of worship , some worshipping after one manner , and others after another , so that amongst the christians there are divers forms of worshipping , and they are striving and contending about their worship , every one praising their own form , and striving one against anothers form of worship ; and this sheweth that the christians now are not guided nor exercised by the own spirit of god , in their worship ; and this shews that the christians now are degenerated from the true worship of god in spirit , which once the christians worship stood in ; for then the worship of christians was one , and in one spirit , but now the worship of christians are many and divers , and divided one from another , and they are not in unity in their worship , but in stri●…e and division ; and herein you are apostatized from the 〈◊〉 of christianity , and its manifest that the worship of christians now , is not in the spirit and in the truth , but in vain traditions , learned in natural knowledge by people that are no●… converted unto god , and any part of the worship which is now practised amongst christians , whether amongst papists of any ●…ort , or amongst protestants of any sort ; i say every part of the worship now practised amongst christians through the world , may be taught unto , and learned of , and exercised in , by a man that knows not god , neither is in the truth , nor converted to the truth ; neither hath the spirit of god guiding nor leading of him ; and i say , that which may be done or practised by a man that is not in the spirit , nor in the truth , nor is yet converted to the knowledge of god , nor is not in any measure guided by the spirit of god , is no●… the worship of the true god which is in the spirit and truth ; but as i have said , any part of the worship now practised amongst christians , may be done and practised by a man that is 〈◊〉 of the spirit , and out of the truth , and unconverted to the knowledge of god ; and therefore the worship now practised amongst christians , is not the true worship of the true god , which is in the spirit and in the truth , and which cannot be practised without it . many more things might be said , as to prove the worship of christians n●…w , as practised by them , is not the true worship of the true god ; but this is true which i have said , that which is practised without the spirit of god , is not the true worship of god , which must be in the spirit , and cannot be practised without it ; but such is the worship of christians , for the christians now generally prayeth , some after one form , and some after another , in their own wills and times , and knoweth not the movings of the spirit of the father thereunto , nor guiding them therein , but in such a manner as they set unto themselves , or as the custom of the country instructs therein , and knows not the 〈◊〉 of the spirit of the father in them , nor knows ●…ot the praying in the holy ghost ; and as for the preaching of christians , it is not now practised as the christians of old practised it , nor by the same spirit ▪ now they study for what they speak , and gathers out of the scriptures , some having it written in a book what they will preach to the people , and this is not to preach as the spirit gives them utterance , neither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the teaching or moving of the spirit of god , but by humane art , and humane 〈◊〉 , knowing before hand , 〈◊〉 , and how much to speak , so much as they have collected in their thoughts from such a verse , and how long to preach , til a glass be run , & knows what to have for preaching ; a●…d this , and such like is the manner of the preaching now 〈◊〉 christians , which hath no savour in it of gods spiri●… ▪ o●… of the teachings or leadings of gods spirit in it , but altogether contrary , to wit , this practise savours of idolatry , and of vain traditions and superstitions . and in short , this practice of preaching amongst the christians now is not in the same manner , neither by the same spirit , nor for the same end as the preaching of the christians was in the dayes of the apostles , which sheweth that the christians now , are apostatized and greatly degenerated from what the christians were then : for again the christian ministers now doth not go as they were moved of the lord up and down from countrey to countrey to convert people to god , as the christian ministers did then : but inquires for places of great maintenance , where there is great store of tithes and set wages ; and if they can , there they settle themselves , and preaches in manner as i have said ; and this practice savours nothing of the teachings of the spirit of god , nor of the movings of that spirit , whereby the christian ministers of old were guided , which sheweth that the christiam ministers now are in the apostacy , and in the degeneration from god , and from what the christian ministers were then . and as concerning the practice of singing now amongst christians , it is not in the spirit , nor with a good understanding , but in a vain form , and tradition , and not in the spirit of the lord ; for now the christians many of them in a form sings the conditions of others ; as davids prayers , and praises , and troubles , and afflictions ; when as themselves are in a condition quite contrary to what david was , and so singeth that which unto themselves is false , as being out of that condition of which they sing , and this is not singing with the spirit , neither is it to sing spiritual songs ▪ and others of christians have another manner of singing ; 〈◊〉 which singing of christians now hath no ●…avour of the teachings of gods spirit in it , neither is it according , 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 ●…e spirit , as the singing of the christians once 〈◊〉 a woful apostacy is fallen among you , ye christians through the world , and you are fallen , you are fallen from the life of christ , and from the true practice of christianity . 〈◊〉 the first christians were in , then their praying was in the spirit , and in the holy ghost , but now without the spirit , in forms and traditions ; their preaching then was as the spirit led them , and as it gave them utterance , but now by humane learning and policy , a●… such a place for so much a y●…ar , an hour by a 〈◊〉 ▪ what they have gathered by 〈◊〉 upon 〈◊〉 m●…ns wolks ; 〈◊〉 the singing of christians was in the spirit ▪ and their whole worship was spiritual , in the spirit and in the truth , but the singing of christians now , and all their worship , is in vain traditions , exercised without the leadings and movings of the spirit of god ; then the worship of christians was one , and by one spirit , now it is divers , and in division , & in many contrary spirits . alas , oh ye christians , consider how 〈◊〉 is your fall , and how woful your degeneration , in respect of your worship , fallen greatly from the teaching of the spirit of god , in your praying , in your preaching , and in your singing , to follow humane learning , and worldly policy , and vain traditions , the customs of the country , and your own imaginations , in your praying , preaching , and singing , as i have proved unto you : oh consider how great is your apostacy from the true life of true christianity , greatly do you erre from the pure way , wherein the true christians walked , and being truly paralel'd with them , and measured with the spirit of true judgement ; you are sound not equall to them in any measure , but rather contrary altogether , shewing you are guided by another spirit then once the christians were , & that you follow another teacher then once they did , your practices doth make it manifest , which are contrary , and not according to what the practice of the christians once were , is not my judgement just upon you ? have you not lost that , and are departed from it which gave the name of christian , and so hath the name without the thing ? a profession of christianity , but no true title therein ; but having lost that which gave the true title to the name : so 〈◊〉 this is your state , and this is your condition generally ye christians through the world ; a name you have of christianity , but to the true life therof , in every particular , are you dead . and now all ye christians upon earth , behold , behold , how you are fallen and degenerated in all these things and many more , which might be named , fallen i say from the true christian life and practice , wherein the christians once were , shewing fully to all the world , that the spirit of christ doth not now guide ye christians , but another spirit , which brings forth through you other works and fruits , and of another nature then what the christians once brought forth and being compared with them , you are no whit equal , in the very way and means whereby you are made christians , you differ from them , and in all your practices , and in life and conversation you are contrary to them , and in respect of your worship and ministry , in every part thereof , are you altogether contrary unto what the christians once were ▪ yea , in your very apparel you shew a degeneration from the true life and practice in christianity ; for the apostle exhorted the christians to adorn themselves in modest apparel , with shamefac'dness and sobriety , not with broidred hair , or gold , or pearls , or costly array , tim. . . and the christians were there exhorted , that their adorning should not be the outward plaiting of the hair ▪ or of wearing of gold , or putting on of apparel . but now amongst ye christians , is a practice found quite contrary ; what vanity and excess is in your apparel , striving to excel one another in pride and vain glory , in your gold , and silver and costly array , spending the creation of god to satisfie their lust●…ul minds ; shewing another spirit then was amongst the christians of old , whose words and name ye profess , but are degenerated from the life , in things of greater and less moment . alas , alas , oh wo is me for you ! how is my spirit 〈◊〉 oppressed in the remembrance of your woful fall ? what shall ●… say unto you but this ? you are revolted and gone away backward from the way of life , and you have altogether forgotten god , and are degenerated from christ the living vine , & the anger of the lord is now greatly kindled 〈◊〉 you , to consume you , and to confound you , because you are revolted and turned aside from the pure and perfect way of god , which once was manifest amongst christians , and your back sliding and apostacy is truly compared to that of the iews , who did retain the name of the people of god , 〈◊〉 they were turned aside from his commandements , even 〈◊〉 you do retain the name of christians , though you are departed from christ ; for the iews had seen and known much of the power and presence , and hand of the lord , in many 〈◊〉 victories and deliverances , and the lord had chosen them above any other people at that day , to place his name 〈◊〉 them , and amongst them ; and yet after all that , they forgot 〈◊〉 wondrous works , and rebelled against him , and became 〈◊〉 and hard-hearted people , much more then any other besides them , and they would not be instructed , nor reclaimed by the voice of the prophets , but smote them , and slew them , and when christ their saviour came , they would not receive him , nor walk in his wayes , but crucified him , saying , they would not have that man to reign over them . and to this in every particular , are the christians now found equal , and agreeing with back-sliding israel , for much of the hand and power of the lord was the christians made partakers of , and the lord wrought great deliverances for them , when they were few in number , and under heavie yokes and bondage , through persecution and cruel dealing ▪ 〈◊〉 then the lord was with them , and increased them greatlie in number , and gave them victorie in a great measure over all their enemies ; but now are they revolted even as the iews , and have forgotten god , and greatly rebelled a●… him , and have turned his love to their lusts , abusing his loving kindness , and are become a 〈◊〉 , and a hard-hearted people as ever were the iews , and now you will not be instructed nor reclaimed from the error of your wayes , but abounds in all manner of unrighteousness , and will not 〈◊〉 to the voice of the lord , nor return to him , but are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 people , and will not return unto him from whom you are fallen , but hates the light which christ hath lightened you withal , neither will have christ to raign over you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the life as the iews did . and as the sacrifices and oblations , the sabboth-keeping of the iews , and all the works of righteousness , were abomination to the lord after they were departed from him , even their very practice of those things which god had once commanded them to perform , became a burden to the lord , and 〈◊〉 soul could not away with them , even their new moons and sabboths , his soul hated , isa. . and all their sacrifices were as if they cut off a dogs neck , and their oblations as if they offered swines blood , and their burning incense , as if they blessed an idol , isa. . i say , the very practice of the iews , after they were revolted , and become disobedient children , in those very things , which god had commanded them to do and practice , and which once the lord accepted the doing of by his people , yet after they were turned aside from the leading of his spirit , the practice of the very same works were hateful in the sight of the lord , when they performed works of righteousness to him , and yet their hearts went after their covetousness , and then , their practicing of that which god had once commanded to be done , their doing of it was idolatry , and was a burden to the lords soul , and their righteousness , and all their practices therein , were as filthy rags , even loathsom in his presence , when their fear towards him was taught by the precepts of men , and they had lost that pure fear which once was taught them of god , but they were gone from his fear , which should have kept their hearts clean ; and their hearts were defiled and polluted , and therefore not any of their performances to him could be accepted , but were altogether become an abomination . and even thus is it at this day , as concerning the sacrifices and performances of christians , being as i have said , and made manifest , departed from the lord , and from the spirit of christ ; all their prayings , and preachings , and singings , their baptisms , and breakings of bread , and even all that which you perform as unto god , as the worship of him ; is not accepted , but abomination unto him ; and his soul is ●…thened with all these things , you not being led with the spirit of christ ; and even your practicing of these things , which the saints and christians once practised , and were accepted of the lord in so doing , while they were led by the spirit of christ ▪ i say the very practice of those things now , by the christians being degenerated , is become idolatry and abomination to the lord ; and this i declare in the fear and presence of the lord , even all your praying , and preachings , and profession , all your sabboth ▪ keeping , and set dayes of humiliation , and even all your practices of religion , which you do and perform is idolatry , and a burden to the lords soul , in the state that now you stand , not being led with the spirit of christ , but being from it departed , and your works not brought forth by it , but by another spirit . and now saith the lord unto you christians , ( who are degenerated from the spirit of christ ) to what purpose is your preaching , praying and singing , they are a vexation and a burden to the righteous soul , and the lord hath no delight therein ; away with it , away with it , your profession & practices stinks in the nostrils of the lord ; all your baptisms , & your sacraments , which ye perform in a vain tradition , and not by the spirit of the lord , they are hateful in his sight , away with them , away with them , they shall crumble to the dust , and immediate desolation in one day ; the lord will break them down , and never build them up again ; your preaching by a glass for so much a sermon , or so much a year , what you have gathered out of books , and studied for from other mens words , down with it , down with it , it is an abomination to the lord ; and your ministrie which is made and sent forth at schools , and by natural learning , through the attainment of such arts and sciences , and being approved of such and such men , and sent forth to such and such a parish , to have so much money by the year for preaching what hath been studied for , and not by the gift of the holie ghost ; away with this ministrie , away with it , it s a mocking of god , and a deceiving of souls , the lord will confound it , and bring it to destruction , and your singing of the saints words in rime and meeter , and their conditions , which your selves never knew ; this is abomination to the lord , & a practice which his soul hates , away with it , the lord is risen to confound it ; away with al your worship , which is not in the spirit nor in the truth , but in vain traditions of men , practised by you in a vain form , and not in the power of god , the lord will bring it down to the ground , and re●… , and establish his own worship , which is in spirit and in truth ; and he will give , and hath given his ministrie again by the gift of the holy ghost , which hath been lost for many ages , while this night of apostacie hath overspread the world , and the lord shall no longer be worshipped in vain traditions of men , but his people shall be restored and renewed , to worship him in spirit and truth ; and the christian life shall again be brought forth , and the spirit of christ shall be the leader and teacher of his people ; and now the day of the lords visitation is again revived , for to gather his people , and to restore them again to his perfect way and worship . therefore hearken and behold ye christians , this is the testimony of the lord concerning you ; you have been fallen and degenerated from the life of righteousnesse , and from the true way and worship of the true god ; and you have long been slumberi●…g and sleeping in this long night of darkness ▪ which overshadowed you , and darkened that glorious appearance of the son of god , which once shined upon the christians , and in blindenesse and darknesse have you walked for many ages , and your worship hath been superscribed to the unknown god ; and wofully have you been wallowing in unclean paths , and you have erred , you have erred from the life of christ , and from his spirit , and you have gone from your husband , and followed other lovers , and you have been drenched in iniquity , & altogether polluted by transgression , and the state in which you now stand , is a state separated from god ; a state of great ignorance and darkness , and a state of hainous rebellion against god , whose soul and spirit is greatly oppressed & grieved because of your degeneration ; who is become more ignorant of god then the ox is of his owner , or the asse of his masters crib , and even the very same vision 〈◊〉 seen concerning you , as the prophet saw concerning israel ; therefore here oh heavens , and give ear oh earth , for the lord doth speak unto you christians ; i have nourished and brought up children , and they have rebelled against me ; and the ox knows his owners , and the asse his masters crib , but the christians doth not know , the people doth not consider . ah sinful nation , a people laden with iniquity , a seed of evel doers , children that are corrupted , that have forsaken the right way , and provoketh the living god to anger , and ye are gone away backward , the whole head is sick , the whole heart is 〈◊〉 , and from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundnesse , but your conditions are wounds and bruis●… ▪ and putrifying sores ; you are not closed , neither bound up , neither mollified with ointment , and your country is desolate and your cities is burnt with fire ; your land strangers devo●… it in your presence , and it is desolate and overthrown by strangers ; and but that the lord of hosts hath left us a small 〈◊〉 , even a seed , ye christians would have been as so●… ; if any man have an ear to hear , let him hear ; this vision is as true unto you christians throughout all the world , 〈◊〉 ever it was unto the seed of the jews ; this is your state , and this is your condition ; and thus ye stand in the sight of the lord , though in your beginning ( in the beginning of christianity i mean ) the lord brought up the christians and nourished them by his living word , and with his word hee cherished them , and they grew unto a goodly state , and were 〈◊〉 in christ ▪ col. . . and they were come to the spirits 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men made perfect , and unto mount sion the city of the living god , the heavenly ierusalem , and to an innumer able company of angels , to the general assembly and church of the first-born , which are written in heaven , and to god the iudge of all , heb. . , . . to this state were the christians nourished and brought up , in the dayes when they were first brought forth , when they were begotten and born again of the immortal word that abides for ●…ever , and they were sanctified , and purified , and made clean ; unto this were they nourished and brought up out of darknesse , and from under the shaddow of death ; but notwithstanding this , the christians now have rebelled against the lord , and doth rebel against him ; and though he hath been unto them as an owner to the ox , and as a crib to the asse , even as thus hath the lord been unto the christians , yet they know it not , neither doth the christians consider , but is indeed grown sinful , and laden with iniquity , and the seed of evil doers brings forth its fruit through christians , being become children that are corrupters , having forsaken the lord and his way , which was made manifest in the dayes of the apostles , and the lord is greatly provoked , for the christians are gone backward from what they were in their beginning , as i have fully made manifest , and this vision of the lord is unto you , all ye christians , even as a tree that is of the most precious seed , and the most noble vine that is planted in a good soil , that is digged and dressed , and grown to a goodly stature ; and bringing forth some acceptable fruit unto the good husbandman for a season ; yet this tree becomes blasted by an unwholesom air , and becomes degenerate from its vertue and property , and nature , and becomes a wilde vine , and a plant of great disgrace , ceasing to bring forth any good fruit , and becomes fruitful in all evil , and the labour of the good husbandman is ●…ost ; for while he looks for good fruit , nothing appears , but fruit of an evil taste , which is altogether loathsome unto the good husbandman . this parable is unto you christians , and this is your state , and your condition ; therefore behold what shall the lord do unto this tree ; shall he not cut it down to the ground and cast it into the purging fire , shall he not lay his ax to the root , and cause all its branches utterly to wither , and cause it to cease in being , even as it hath ceased in bringing forth fruit ? shall not the good husbandman destroy this tree with all its corrupt fruit , and shall not his own hand accomplish the purpose of his own heart ? this tree shall be fuel for this fire of his anger , he will pluck it up and not plant it again , because it is degenerated . g●…e car all ye christians to the testimony which is concerning you , you are fallen , you are fallen , and being compared to what the christians were , you are no whit equal ; but a●… diverted in all your practices , from that spirit which led the apostles and christian churches ; and your works shew another spirit then the spirit of jesus : wherefore great i●… your fall , and to be lamented , and though you have the name of christians , yet you want the life . the end . an objection . but whereas it may be objected by some and said , seeing the state of christianity is thus discovered what it was i●… its beginning and purity , and what it now is in its degeneration ; and seeing the present state of christians is thus condemned , what do i believe concerning the state of christianity to come ? what shall succeed this present degeneration ? and may it be expected that ever christianity shall be restored to that state of purity as it was in its beginning ? and whether may people expect to come into the same life again , and to know the same power , and worship , and unity , which was amongst the apostles and first christians churches ? and whether do i judge that ever the ministry can be again received by the gift of the holy spirit onely , without natural learning and languages ? and whether the same spirit is to be waited for and received ? and whether the same anointing can be known in this age , or any age to come , as it was in and among the apostles and christians , before the apostacy and degeneration . answer . to all this i answer , and do say , that the present state of christianity is woful , and to be condemned of the lord , as being degenerated from his life , power and spirit , whereby all hearts are darkened , and all minds estranged from the covenant of life and peace , and from the sence and feeling of the life of god : and now in all the wayes , and worships , and practices of christians they are fallen and degenerated from that life in which the christians once were ; and the beast hath raigned over all for many ages , and because of his power , and greatness , and dominion , who hath been able to make war with him ; he hath killed the saints , and hath subjected all nations under his power , and every nation hath received the mark of the beast , and born his image for generations , and all flesh hath s●…ggered , and hath been made drunk with the ●…up of fornication , that hath been i●… the hand of the whore who hath set upon this beast , who hath caused both small and great to worship him , and all that would not , he hath had power to kill them ; and this government hath ruled over the whole christendom , and the worship practised hath been but the worship of the beast , while people have been erred from the spirit of christ , and not guided by it onely ; and people hath been compelled to worship by laws of men , they have been compelled to sprinkle their infants , and they have been compelled to go to steeple houses , and compelled to keep a sabboth , and compelled to hire priests , and to pay them wages against their wills , and all this compelling by an outward power , hath not been the worship of god , but savoured altogether of the worship of the beast ; for you may read , rev. . , , , . how the beast caused all , both small and great to worship him , and all that would not worship him by his power , he hath had power to kill them ; and all compelling and causing to worship by an outward power , is the worship of the beast , for christ nor his apostles never caused any to worship god by an outward power ; for while christianity kept its purity and authority , they begot people to god , and to worship him , by the word of god , and by the power of the spirit ; and they did not bring any into their sect , nor to worship with them by an outward law and authority ; for that is in the government of the beast , it was he that first caused both small and great to conform to his worship , and it is his power that upholds it , and maintains it unto this day . but now the seed of god is arising , which is able to make war with the beast , and his kingdome , and his worship shall be thrown down to the ground , and all this causing and compelling to worship , causing to keep a day , and causing to hire teachers to maintain them ; and this causing to go to steeple-houses , and to maintain them , and all this causing to pay tythes , it shall all fall to the ground , and be beat down by the 〈◊〉 of god , which is a rising , and it shall be no more found among true christians , nor the beast shall not be worshipped , 〈◊〉 his authority any more of force ; for the day of the lord hath now appeared , and the light is sprung forth which hath made all things manifest , and now the difference is known between the worship of the beast , and the worship of the true god : and concerning the state of christianity to come , this i ●…new & believe , a glorious restauration thereof shall appear throughout the whole christendom , & christianity shall again be restored to its former purity , and christians shall , and may receive the same spirit , from which the christians hath been degenerated ; and the same life , the same power , and the same worship and unity shall be revived amongst christians in the restoration ; even the same that was in the beginning before the apostacy , and the glory of god shall again appeare among his people , and they shall again worship him in spirit and in truth onely , as they did before the apostacy , and all this traditionall worship , and false imitations which hath been set up since the apostles dayes , shall be overthrown and confounded ; the lord is risen and will dash down and overthrow all this idolatry now practised amongst christians . and a great shaking and counfounding shall suddenly come among christians ; for the lord will break down that which hath been builded because it is polluted ; and he will pluck ●…p that which hath been planted , because it is defiled ; and a mighty work will the lord work in the earth , the kingdoms of this world will he change into the kingdoms of christ , and christ shall reigne in and among his people , and his spirit shall be the teacher and leader of his people , and all false ●…chers will the lord confound and consume ; all these hirelings , who go for gifts and rewards , and all this manner of preaching and teaching , which are come up since the apostles dayes ; all this preaching which they study for , and by a 〈◊〉 , and for so much money a year , all this shall be tumbled down into the pit ; gods vengeance shall come upon it all , and the annoynting shall be received , and it shall dwell in people , as it did in the apostles ; and the people shall need no other teacher but as that annointing teacheth all things , and for this spirit and annointing , all that feare god may wa●… to receive it in this present age ; which spirit brings into the same unity and life , into the same worship and fellowship that was amongst christians in the beginning before the apostacy ; and this state may christians be restored to , and for this state all that fear god and love him are to wait , for this shall come to passe in the world . and as concerning the ministry , i know and do believe it may be , and is received again as the apostles and christian ministers first received it , to wit , by the eternall spirit and gift thereof , through the revelation of christ jesus in them ▪ and such may and doth preach the gospel freely , as they doe receive it freely , and without naturall learning and languages . for by that can none be made ministers of christ , nor by any thing without the gift of the holy spirit , and christs ministry shall again be received thereby ; this i believe : and all this ministry made and sent forth by naturall learning , and without the gift of the holy spirit , the lord will confound it in this age ; for this is come up since the apostles dayes , to make ministers by naturall learning , and it stands in the apostacy from the life , and spirit of christ , and its call , and work , and maintenance , savours not of the kingdome of christ , and the lord will bring it downe , and the gift of his ministry will he restore by his spirit ; and this is , and shall come to passe , and it may be waited for in this present age ; and the lord will restore his ministry as in the beginning , and his work shall be glorious ; for many there are , is , and shall be converted to god , and brought out of the degeneration , and to that shall people come which all christendom hath been apostatized from , and shall receive the same spirit , and the same annointing which was amongst the christian churches ; and life and immortality shall again be brought to light through the gospel , which hath been hid for ages while darkness hath been over the minds of people ; and i say and testifie before all the world , that christianity shall be restored to its former state ; life shall spring forth , and truth shall be increased , and faith shall waxe strong , even the same 〈◊〉 that the apostles had , which gave them victory over all the world which shall again give people the same victory ; and this shall be known in the earth : for the marriage of the lamb shall come , and all his people shall be joyned unto him , and they shall be one way , and one worship , and one teacher , and every man shall fit under christs vine , and none shall make afraid : yea , and more then a vine shall he be known ●…d more then a door , and more then a shepheard shall he be known to be to his people , and greater then a rock shall he be witnessed to be , and more then a teacher in the wildernesse . if any man have eares to hear , let him hear : more and greater is he becoming to his people , then is lawfull yet to utter : eye hath not seen , nor it hath not entred into the heart of man , but it is revealed to us by his spirit ; the joyfull day is approaching , the lambs wife is making her selfe ready , the wedding garment is putting on ; and all that which is polluted is to be done away ; and blessed is he that cometh to the marriage of the lamb , that he may become one spirit with the creator ; here is glory and rejoycing for ever , when this is known , that the wife hath not power over her owne body , but the husband , nor the husband hath power over his owne body , but the wife . where this is known , death is swallowed up of life , and 〈◊〉 is overcome of righteousnesse , and the inheritance of life eternall comes to be possessed , and death and hell is cast into the lake , and he which hath deceived , can deceive no more ; and blessed is the eye that seeth this , and the heart that understands . wherefore all ye christians upon earth , awake , awake , and put away your whoredoms , cast off your idolatries , and strip you , and make you clean of all your adultries ; drink no longer of the cup of fornications , nor eat no longer of the abominable flesh ; nor wear no longer your garments of unrighteousness , but strip ye , strip ye , make ye bare , all your old garments must be put off before you can appear before the lord . a great work will the lord work amongst you , he will ●…ake and overthrow all your altars , images , and idols which you have set up and worshipped ; the lord hath uttered 〈◊〉 voice , the beast that hath many heads , and many horns , 〈◊〉 tremble , 〈◊〉 one head and one horn onely shall be exalted , and the government shall be set up , of whose increase there shall be no end ; and people shall be brought into that , and they shall go forth no more , for who comes to this , time is no longer , and the kingdom and government is delivered to the father , and he is become all in all . and all that ever comes to know these things , must first come to the light of the lamb in them , with which every man is lightned that cometh into the world , and all that ever knows these things , must first be brought to the principle of god in them , which they have trangressed against ▪ and all that owns the light of christ , and walks in it , shall come to know these things , which to know and be in them , is eternal life . therefore all ye christians , come to the light which christ hath lightned you withal , and that will let you see the government of satan , and of sin and death , which hath been ruling in you , and the light will teach you to war against it , till it be subdued , the light will discover unto you that nature , in which the kingdom of satan bears rule , it will 〈◊〉 you see the devil , who is the prince of darkness , who is the adversary of god ; who is out of the truth , and he has dra●… all people out of the truth ; but if you love the light of christ in you , it will teach you to war against him , and against all that , that 's out of the truth ; for all that is of satans kingdom , that is out of the truth , and must be destroyed by the coming of the kingdom of christ ; whose coming is in the light , which christ hath lightned every man withal , who comes to destroy the devil , and his kingdom , and all his works ; so to the light must all minds be turned , which will reveal the kingdom of the man of sin , and consume 〈◊〉 the appearance of christ is light , and christ is the light of israel , which is as a fire , to consume all fruitless trees , which cumbers the ground , which the lord will consume by the brightness of his coming : and now is the man of sin revealed , even in the heart of christians so called , and he hath long shewed himself to be god , but now the lord will bring him down ; for antichrist has ruled for many ages , and the lord of life has been crucified in spiritual sodom ; but sodom shall be consumed by fire , and the lord will avenge himself of all his enemies , and all people and nations shall know there is a god , who executes justice and true judgement , who is a god near at hand to reward his people with everlasting life , and to give unto his enemies judgement and condemnation . the end . liberty of conscience asserted and several reasons rendred why no outward force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith and religion with several sayings collected from the speeches and writings of king james and king charles the first / john crook, samuel fisher, francis howgill, richard hubberthorne. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) liberty of conscience asserted and several reasons rendred why no outward force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith and religion with several sayings collected from the speeches and writings of king james and king charles the first / john crook, samuel fisher, francis howgill, richard hubberthorne. crook, john, - . fisher, samuel, - . howgill, francis, - . hubberthorn, richard, - . p. printed for robert wilson ..., london : . "this was delivered into the hands of the members of both houses of parliament the last day of the third month, ." reproduction of original in university of texas library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- parliament. liberty of conscience -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . religion and state -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion liberty of conscience asserted , and several reasons rendred , why no outward force , nor imposition , ought to be used in matters of faith and religion : with several sayings , collected from the speeches and writings of king james , and king charles the first . john crook samuel fisher francis howgill richard hubberthorne . acts . , . now i say unto you , refrain from these men , and let them alone : for if this counsel , or this work , be of men , it will come to nought : but if it be of god , you cannot overthrow it ; lest haply ye be found fighters against god. this was delivered into the hands of the members of both houses of parliament , the last day of the third month , . london , printed for robert wilson , in martins le grand , . liberty of conscience asserted , &c. liberty of conscience ought to be allowed in the dayes of the gospel in the free exercise of it to god-ward ( without compulsion ) in all things relating to his worship , for these reasons following . . because the general and universal royal law of christ commands it matth. . . all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them : for this is the law and prophets . that which every man would have and receive from another , he ought by christ's rule to give and allow it to another . but every man is willing to have the liberty of his own conscience , therefore ought to allow it to another . . because , no man can perswade the conscience of another , either what god is , or how he should be worshipped , but by the spirit , which god hath given to instruct man in the wayes of truth . . because , all obedience or service that is obtained by force , is for fear of wrath , and not from love , nor for conscience sake ; and therefore will but continue so long as that fear or force abides upon them . . because , that by forcing , no man can make a hypocrite to be a true believer ; but on the contrary , many may be made hypocrites . . because , that in all forced impositions upon mens consciences there is something of the wrath of man exercised , which works not the righteousness of god , bur rather begets enmity in the heart one towards another . . because , that by forcing any thing upon mens consciences , as to matters of faith and worship , many are hardened in their hearts against the things imposed ; when as otherwise , through love and gentle instructions their hearts might be perswaded to willing obedience . . because , that persecution for conscience contradicteth christ's charge , matth. . who bids , that the tares ( or false worshippers ) be suffered to grow together in the field ( or world ) till the harvest ( or end of the world. ) . because , force is contrary to the end for which it is pretended to be used ( viz. ) the preservation and safety of the wheat , which end is not answered by persecution , because the wheat is in danger to be plucked up thereby , as christ saith . . because , to force , is inconsistent with the belief of the jews conversion ( and other false worshippers ) which is prayed for by the publick teachers , and cannot be attained , if persecution for conscience be prosecuted . . because , they that impose upon mens consciences , exercise dominion over mens faith , which the apostles denyed , saying , they had not dominion over any mens faith. . because , imposition upon mens consciences necessitates them to sin , in yeelding a conformity contrary to their own faith : for whatsoever is not of a mans own faith , is sin . . because , that imposition and force wrestles with flesh and blood , and carnal weapons , which is contrary to the apostles doctrine , who said , our vveapons are not carnal , but spiritual , and mighty through god : and we wrestle not with flesh and bloud . . because , there is but one judge , law-giver and king in and over the conscience , as the saints have testified in the scriptures of truth ; and whosoever would intrude , so as to be judge and law-giver over the conscience , intrencheth upon the prerogative of christ , isa. . . james . . . because , it is prophesied in isa. . the wolf shall dwell with the lamb , and the leopard shall lye down with the kid , and there shall be no destroyer in all he holy mountain ; and therefore no imposition upon mens consciences . . because , to impose upon mens consciences for differences in faith , is contrary to the advice of the apostle , who directs people to wait upon god to be satisfied , and not to the magistrate or others , to be forced ; who saith , vvhereunto we have attained , let us walk ; and wherein any man is otherwise-minded , god shall reveal , even that unto him . . because , to force mens consciences , and to lay yoaks upon them , is to make void the blood-shed and sufferings of christ , who sits upon the throne of the conscience , and gives libeyty there ; and commands us to stand fast in that liberty , and not to be entangled through the impositions of men , or yoak of bondage , gal. . . . because in all nations the different professions and perswasions of religion , are either friends or enemies to the governours : if friends then obliged by that bond. if enemies then christ's command is to take place , who saith , love your enemies ; which if observed , persecution for conscience will be avoided . . because , toleration of different perswasions in religion was allowed in the jewish state , as not inconsistent with their safety , and that in things contrary each to other , as the sadduces , pharisees , essaeans , herodians with others . . because , the true religion cannot be preached up by force of armes , and the primitive christians detested that form of proceedings . . because , no man hath such power over the souls and consciences of other men , as to lay a necessity on them to believe that which they do not believe , or not to believe what they do believe : true faith being the gift of god. . because , if the magistrate imposeth upon the conscience , he must either do it as a magistrate , or as a christian. not as a magistrate , for then heathens ( being magistrates ) have the same power to impose ; and so , by revolutions and conquests , may come to give laws to christians , and compel them to idolatry . . not as christians , for that contradicts christ's saying , the kings of the gentiles exercise lordship over them ; but it shall not be so among you , for all ye are , brethren . . because , by the same rule and reason that the magistrate of one nation ought to impose upon , and persecute for conscience , the magistrates in all other nations ought to do the same ; and so the greatest part of mankind may come to be destroyed , there being more that dissent , than are at unity in matters of faith and religion . . because , the strength of truth , and its conquest over falsity and deceit , is best discovered by letting both have their liberty , from out 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 sion ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ou 〈…〉 ard force been less used , the prevalency of truth had been more manifest , and that wife saying , truly experienced in the world , viz. that which i● of god will stand , and that which is not will come to nothing . . because , the disciples of christ are rebuked by him for desiring the destruction of those that were contrary to him , and would not receive him : which zeal is sharply reproved in his saying , they knew not what spirit they were of . . because , to impose upon mens consciences , and to destroy their persons for difference in religion , is contrary to the end of christ's coming , who saith , he came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them . . because , people of divers religions in one nation , if not tolerated , must some of them be destroyed , or removed by banishment . if destroyed , the constancy and patience of the sufferers for their faith , moving pitty and commiseration , makes men more ready to own , than to reject their faith , and so rather multiplies , than lessens , the number of its professors . if banish'd , this renders the banished as so many enemies abroad , ready upon all occasions to disturbe the peace and tranquillity of their own native countrey . there is therefore , in order to the outward welfare of all nations , a kind of necessity for a toleration in them of all religions . . because , to impose upon mens consciences begets a hatred against the imposers in those who are imposed upon , and forc'd thereby to violate their consciences towards god in matters of worship . . because , men are commanded to be subject to the powers that are , for conscience sake , and therefore such powers ought not to persecute men for conscience sake , being that is prescribed for the rule of obedience ; the scripture saying , be ye subject not onely for wrath , but for conscience sake . . we find it asserted by king james in his speech to the parliament in the year , . who said , that it is a pure rule in divinity , that god never loves to plant his church with uiolence and blood ; and furthermore said , it was usually the condition of christians to be persecuted , but not to persecute . . and we find the samething in substance asserted again , by his ) son charles the first , in his book known by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , printed for r. royston , as followeth . page . in his prayer to god , he said , thou seest how much cruelty amongst christians is acted , under the colour of religion ; as if we could not be christians , unless me crucifie one another . pag. ● . make them at length seriously to consider , that nothing uiolent and injurious , can be religious . pag. . nor is it so proper to ●ew out religious reformations by the sword , as to pollish them by fair and equal disputations , among those that are most concer●●d in the differences , whom , not force , but reason ought to convince . sure in matters of religion , those truths gain most upon mens judgements and consciences , which are least urged with segular ui●lence , which weakens truth with prejudices . pag. . it being an office not onely of humanity , rather to use reason than force , but also of christianity to seek peace and ensue it . pag. , . in point of true conscientious tenderness , i have often declared , how little i desire my laws and scepter , should intrench on god's soveraignty , which is the onely king of mens consciences . pag. . nor do i desire any man should be farther subject unto me , than all of us may be subject unto god. concerning oaths . p. . the injoyning of oathes , upon people , must needs in things doubtful be dangerous , as in things unlawful damnable . some words of advice from charles the first , to the then prince of wales , now king of england , &c. pag. . my counsel and charge to you is , that you seriously consider the former real or objected miscariages , which might occasion my troubles , that you may avoid them , &c. beware of exasperating any factions , by the crosness and asperity of some mens passions , humors , and private opinions , imployed by you , grounded ●●●ly upon differences in lesser matters , which are but the skirts and suburbs of religion , wherein a charitable connivance , and christian toleration , often dissipates their strength , when rougher opposition fortyfies , and puts the despised and oppressed party into such combinations , as may most enable them to get a full revenge on those they count their persecutors . pag. . take heed that outward circumstances and formalities of religion devour not all . pag. . your prerogative is best shewed and exercised in remitting , rather than exacting the rigor of the laws , there being nothing worse than legal tyranny . acts . , , . gamaliel said unto them , ye men of israel , take heed unto your selves , what ye intend to do as touching these men , &c. acts . , , , , . gallio said , if it were a matter of wrong , or wicked lewdness , reason would that i should bear with you : but if it be a question of words and names , and of your law , look ye to it : for i will be no judge of such matters . the end . by his highness a proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers and other christians in their assemblies and meetings. england and wales. lord protector ( - : o. cromwell) this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing c thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) by his highness a proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers and other christians in their assemblies and meetings. england and wales. lord protector ( - : o. cromwell) cromwell, oliver, - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by henry hills and john field, printers to his highness, london : mdcliv. [ , i.e. ] dated at end: given at white-hall the : day of february . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . great britain -- religion -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no by his highness: a proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers and other christians in their assemblies and meetings. england and wales. lord protector c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion o blazon or coat of arms incorporating the commonwealth flag ( - ) p ❧ by his highness : a proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers and other christians in their assemblies and meetings . it having pleased the lord , by the manifold mercies and deliverances which he hath wrought in and for these nations of late years , and the blessings wherewith he hath blessed the endeavors of the good people thereof , in making them successful against his and their enemies , to crown vs with this , as not the least token of his favor and good will to vs , that there is a free and uninterrupted passage of the gospel running through the midst of vs , and liberty for all to hold forth and profess with sobriety , their light and knowledge therein , according as the lord in his rich grace and wisdom hath dispenced to every man , and with the same freedom to practice and exercise the faith of the gospel , and to lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty , without any interruption from the powers god hath set over this commonwealth , nay with all just and due encouragement thereto , and protection in so doing by the same ; a mercy that is the price of much blood , and till of late years denyed to this nation , as at this day it continues to be to most of the nations round about vs , and which all that fear god amongst vs ought duly to consider and be thankful for in this day , wherein god hath so graciously visited and redeemed his people ; his highness , as he reckons it a duty incumbent upon him , and shall take all possible care to preserve and continue this freedom and liberty to all persons in this commonwealth fearing god , though of differing iudgements , by protecting them in the sober and quiet exercise and profession of religion , and the sincere worship of god , against all such who shall ; by imposing upon the consciences of their brethren , or offering violence to their persons , or any other way , seek to hinder them therein ; so likewise doth he hold himself equally obliged to take care , that , on no pretence whatsoever , such freedom given should be extended by any beyond those bounds which the royal law of love and christian moderation have set us in our walking one towards another ; or that thereby occasion should be taken by any to abuse this liberty to the disturbance or disquiet of any of their brethren in the same free exercise of their faith and worship , which himself enjoies of his own . and his highness cannot but sadly lament the woful distemper that is fallen upon the spirits of many professing religion and the fear of god in these dayes , who instead of a suitable return to the lord our god for this liberty , and all our other mercies , and appearing in an answerable carriage by a spirit of tenderness and forbearance one towards another , and provoking one another to love and good works , are found in a spirit of bitterness towards their brethren , biting and devouring , hateful and hating one another , and whilest they pretend the liberty which christ hath purchased for his people , do openly and avowedly , by rude and unchristian practices , disturb both the publique and private meetings for preaching the word , and other religious exercises , and vilifie , oppose , and interrupt the publique preachers in their ministery , whereby the liberty of the gospel , the profession of religion , and the name of god , is much dishonoured and abused , and the spirits of all good men much grieved . his highness therefore , having had many informations from divers parts of this commonwealth of such practices by divers men lately risen up under the names of quakers , ranters , and others , who do daily both reproach and disturb the assemblies and congregations of christians , in their publique and private meetings , and interrupt the preachers in dispensing the word , and others in their worship , contrary to just liberty , and to the disturbance of the publique peace , doth hold himself obliged by his trust to declare his dislike of all such practices , as being contrary to the just freedome and liberties of the people , which by the laws and government of this commonwealth they ought to be protected in ; and doth hereby strictly require and command all persons whatsoever , that they forbear henceforth all such irregular and disorderly practices . and if in contempt hereof , any persons shall presume to offend as aforesaid , we shall esteem them as disturbers of the civil peace , and shall expect , and do require all officers and ministers of iustice to proceed against them accordingly . given at white-hall the . day of february . london , printed by henry hills and john field , pri●●ers to his highness , mdcliv . a seasonable disswasive from persecution humbly and modestly, yet with christian freedom and plainness of speech, offered to the consideration of all concern'd therein, on behalf generally of all that suffer for conscience sake, particularly of the people called quakers / by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a seasonable disswasive from persecution humbly and modestly, yet with christian freedom and plainness of speech, offered to the consideration of all concern'd therein, on behalf generally of all that suffer for conscience sake, particularly of the people called quakers / by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed for william skeate, london : . reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- great britain. persecution -- great britain. society of friends -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a seasonable disswasive from persecution , humbly and modestly , yet with christian freedom and plainness of speech , offered to the consideration of all concern'd therein ; on behalf generally , of all that suffer for conscience sake , particularly of the people called quakers . by ( one of them ) thomas ellwood . i will punish all that oppress them , jer. . . i will contend with him that contendeth with thee , and i will save thy children . and i will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh , and they shall be drunken with their own blood , as with sweet wine : and all flesh shall know that i the lord am thy saviour and thy redeemer , the mighty one of jacob , isa. . , . and now i say unto you , refrain from these men , and let them alone — least haply ye be found even to fight against god , acts . , . london , printed , for william skeate , and are to be sold in george-yard in lombard-street , . king charles i. in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thou seest , o god , how much cruelty among christians is acted under the colour of religion ; as if we could not be christians , unless we crucifie one another . sect. . 't is thought by many wise men , that the preposterous rigour , and unreasonable severity , which some men carried before them in england , was not the least incentive that kindled , and blew up into those horrid flames the sparks of discontent , which wanted not predisposed fuel of rebellion in ireland ; — they saw themselves apparently threatened by the covetous zeal , and uncharitable fury of some men , who think it a great argument of the truth of their religion , to endure no other but their own . ibid. they confess their known weakness , as to truth and iustice , who chuse rather to contend by arms than by argument . sect. . it argues rather those men to be conscious of their defects of reason , and convincing arguments , who call in assistance of meer force to carry on the weakness of their counsels and proposals . sect. . a disswasive from persecution , &c , persecution is a word of so harsh a sound , and so generally distasteful to english ears , that scarce any of those who are most forward and active in that work , are willing to have their actions called by that name . that none therefore , who have set an hand to that work , or whose minds are any whit inclining thereunto , may , from the dislike they have to the word [ persecution ] reject this diswasive as a thing wherein they are not concerned : i think it needful here to declare what it is i mean by persecution . by persecution , then i intend a forcing or compelling any by pains or penalties , bodily or pecuniary , to relinquish or forsake that exercise of religion , or way of worship , which they believe to be the right way of worship , and the true and acceptable exercise of religion , which god hath required of them : and to receive , embrace , conform to and perform some other exercise of religion , and way of worship , which they , who are so compelled , are either firmly perswaded is not the right , or at least have no belief that it is the right . this ( in short ) is that which i call persecution : and this is that i diswade from , whatever other name the actors of it may please themselves in calling it by . i. to begin now with the first of these , viz. the forcing or compelling any to forsake and leave that exercise of religion , or way of worship , which they believe to be the right way of worship , and the true exercise of religion , which god requireth of them : the reasons by which i shall endeavour to diswade all men from such an undertaking , are these . . you may , for ought you know , be found fighters against god : you are not , you cannot be , upon your own principles , infallibly sure , that that way of worship , which you thus endeavour to force us from , is not the true worship of god. we know it is so ? you do not know it is not so . if in the end it prove to be so , how sad will your condition be , who have thus bent your force to hinder the true worship of god , and set your selves to restrain us from performing that , which god hath required of us ! i pray consider , saul was as confident , as you can be ; and had as good ground for his confidence , as you can have : and thereupon he went smartly on for a while ( as some of you have done ) making havock of the church , entring into every house , and haling men and women , committed them to prison , acts . . i persecuted , saies he this way unto the death , binding and delivering into prisons , both men and women , chap. . . many of the saints did he shut up in prison , and when they were put to death , he gave his voice against them , chap. . . he punisht them oft in every synagogue , and compelled them to blaspheme : and being exceedingly mad against them , he persecuted them even unto strange cities , vers . . and this he verily thought with himself that he ought to do , vers . . yet all this while he was out of his thoughts ; for in all this he was wrong , and they were right whom he thus persecuted . and may it not be so with you ? why then will you run so great an hazard . . by endeavouring to force us from that way of worship , which we believe the lord hath led us into and requireth of us , you endeavour to force us to make shipwrack of faith. we have solemnly and sincerly declared unto you , that we firmly believe , and are fully perswaded and satisfied in our consciences , that god hath led us into this way of worship wherein we serve him , and that he requireth our perseverance therein . this is our faith in this particular . now so far as you endeavour by threats , by terrors , by penalties and cruelties to force any of us from this way of worship : so far you endeavour to force us to make shipwrack of faith , and of good conscience too : which if through your means any should do , the guilt thereof will lie heavy upon you . . in endeavouring by force and cruelty to restrain us from worshiping god , according as ( we are fully perswaded ) he hath taught us and doth require us , you go out of the path of the righteous , and tread in the steps of the wicked and ungodly . it was the egyptians that dealt thus with the israelites ; not the israelites that dealt so with the egyptians ; as you may read from the th . chap. of exodus to the . it was the heathen ( who knew not god ) that dealt thus with daniel ; not daniel that dealt so with them , dan. . it was the hard hearted , unbelieving jews and unconverted gentiles , that dealt thus with the apostles and primitive christians ; not the christians that dealt so with them , acts. . , . & . . & . . & . . it was the blood-thirsty papists that dealt thus with the protestants in queen maries daies . and can you bring a greater odium upon your selves , than , by imitating these , to make folks think you approve what they have done ? . that exercise of religion which you would force us from , is not simply and of it self condemned or disallowed by that law , by the severity of which you would force us from it . it is not simply and positively , every assembly or meeting for the exercise of religion in other manner than according to the liturgy , &c. that is forbidden and made punishable , by that act of the th . of charles the second against conventicles ; but such only as hath at it above four persons besides the family . any family then , ( how numerous soever ) and four persons over and above , may meet , under the favour of that act , for the exercise of religion , though in other manner than according to the liturgy , &c. which plainly shews that the law-makers did not look upon such exercise of religion to be evil simply in it self ; ( for then they would have utterly condemned and forbidden it to all , even the least numbers ) but that they presupposed a danger from the numbers resorting to such assemblies ; and therefore did not absolutely forbid the exercise , but laid a limitation upon the number of persons that might resort thereunto . now the permitting this exercise to any , is an admitting of it to be good : and the offence lies not in the exercise it self , but in the numbers resorting to it ; and that only so far as they may be thought dangerous to the publick peace . since therefore the exercise of religion which ye would drive us from , is so far from being in it self evil or unlawful , that it receives some kind of countenance even from that very law by which ye pretend to act . since also the experience ye have had of our peaceable deportment in our meetings , and of our quiet , and chearful subjection to the government we have lived under , hath sufficiently secured you from all danger from our meetings , how numerous soever : why will you afflict , molest , trouble , imprison , impoverish and ruin your countreymen , your neighbours , your acquaintance , your fellow-citizens and townsmen , your correspondents , your relations , your friends and fellow-protestants , for that which is not evil nor unlawful in it self , nor hurtful to you nor to any ! . in thus eagerly pursuing us , and disturbing our peaceable meetings , you give your selves , as well as us , a great deal of needless trouble . for , as that learned doctor in the jewish law did well observe , in the apostles case , if this counsel or this work be of men , it will come to nought . but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , acts . , . so say i to you in our case ( and i wish some one of your own , that were had , like him , in reputation among all the people , would have done this for me ) if this people and their meetings be not of god , you need not thus bestir you , you may spare your pains ; they 'll come to nought ; but if they be of god , ye cannot overthrow them . so that whether we be of god , or be not of god , your labour against us is in vain . either we shall fall without it , or stand for all it . be entreated therefore , for your own sakes , as well as for ours , to take gamaliel's counsel , refrain from these men and let them alone . . and lastly , be pleased to consider what sort of agents and instruments you are fain to make use of ( and not seldom are your selves made use of by ) to carry on this work . are not the vilest wretches , the most profligate of mankind , for the most part , the first movers in it ? where is there an informer upon this statute , who has not first been either some notorious criminal ( whom a little rote-reading , and a favourable ordinary , have saved from the gallows ) or some riotous spendthrift , whose debaucheries have brought him to a condition worse than that of beggery , viz. a rapacious desire of repairing his own self-ruined fortunes , by the unrighteous ruining of others ? and , to say nothing , in this place , of the generosity of a true english nature , which hates to be rid and commanded by such base and infamous fellows ( as not only constables , and other inferior officers , but even iustices , aldermen , yea , and mayors too , have sometimes been ) can you think it consistent with christianity , with humanity , with the honour and interest of the nation , and of your selves , that so many thousand families of your sober , honest , consciencious , industrious , and peaceable neighbours ( against whom , even envy her self can find no occasion , except as against daniel of old , dan. . . concerning the law of their god ) should be sacrificed to the bruitish and insatiable lust of such a dissolute and shameless crew , and that by you ? can you think it will embalm your memories , and sweeten your names to after ages , to have it recorded to posterity , that you were the men that rifled your neighbours houses ; that made spoil and havock of their goods , that stript them of their estates , that imprisoned their persons , that ruined their families ; and all this for no other cause , but only and alone for worshipping and serving god , in a quiet and peaceable manner , according as they believed he required them to do ? o never give cause for this epitaph to be written upon your tomb , here lies a persecutor of the people of god. ii. now for the other branch , which i mentioned , of persecution , viz. the forcing or compelling of any by pains or penalties , bodily or pecuniary , to receive , embrace , conform to and perform some exercise of religion , and way of worship , which they , who are so compelled , are either firmly perswaded is not the right , or at least have no belief that it is the right . the reasons by which i shall endeavour to diswade all men from such an undertaking , are these . . in thus imposing your way of worship upon others , you act quite contrary to christ and his apostles . the author of the christian religion , though he had all power in heaven and in earth , given unto him , yet did not make use of that power , as you do of your power , by outward severities and rigour to force people to receive , and profess the religion which he taught . but his usual saving was , he that hath ears to hear let him hear . and when two of his disciples , in their young state , and in an overwarm zeal against some that did not receive him , did once ask him leave to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them ; he sharply rebuk'd them with a [ ye know not that manner of spirit ye are of : ] and instructing them better , told them , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . and instead of thrusting himself upon those samaritans , that were not willing to receive him , he passed them by , and went to another village , luke . . to . the apostles , when the iews rejected their message , did not attempt to impose it on them ; but said , seeing you put from you , — lo , we turn to the gentiles , asts . . you read that christ whipt some out of the temple , iohn . . but ye never read that he whipt any in . why then will you steer a course so directly contrary to christ and his apostles ? . in this imposing your way of worship upon others , you follow the worst of patterns . nebuchadnezzar , king of babylon , a blasphemous , cruel and heathenish prince , whom god in an extraordinary manner did punish ; whose heart was chang'd from mans , and a beasts heart given unto him , dan. . the beast which iohn saw coming up out of the earth , that spake as a dragon , rev. . . both these imposed their worship upon others , and that under the severest penalties . but can you think it either honourable or safe for you to imitate such bruitish examples ! . inforcing people to your way of worship , who have no beleif that it is the right you cause them to sin : for whatsoever is not of faith is sin , rom. . and therefore as the apostles there argues , he that doubteth , is damned , ( that is condemned ) if he eat . and is not the argument as forcible in this case , as in that of eating ? may it not with like reason be said , he that doubteth that your way of worship is not right , is damned if he conform to it , because his conformity is not of faith ; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin . and the wages of sin ye know is death , rom. . . now if they that conform in such a doubting mind do therein sin , and thereby bring damnation ( that is condemnation ) upon themselves ; what may you expect , who by threatnings , by imprisonments , by fines , or other outward penalties , do drive them thereunto ! . enforcing people to your way of worship , who have a firm perswasion and belief that it is not the right ; you make men hypocrites and timeservers : for such as have not fortitude enough to bear the storm of persecution , and to undergo with patience the various cruelties inflicted on them ; such , through fear , may fall into temptation , and perhaps , for self-security , may comply with that , which they certainly believe is not right . and herein they sin against their knowledg , and you are the cause of this sin of theirs , by drving them unto it ; and at your hands will it be required . . by obtruding and forcing your religion upon others , you greatly disparage and undervalue it , and give men the more ground to suspect and dislike it : for men are naturally apt to question the goodnes of that commodity , which is put upon them whether they will or not . those wares that are true and good need no such waies to put them off . the christian religion , in its purest and best estate , was never thrust upon any ; nor need it . to be without it is punishment suficient ; and greater than any you can inflict : they who in the parble were invited to the great supper , luke , . and made their excses and did not come , were not fetcht in with a capias , nor fined and imprisoned till they would come ; but were utterly shut out and debarred from coming : [ i say unto you , that none of those men that were bidden shall taste of my , supper ver . . ] that was their punishment , and a grievous one too . the apostles of our lord ( as one of them declares , cor. . . ) having received the minestry of the gospel , and renounced the hidden things of dishonesty , did not walk in craftiness ( and i am sure i may safely add , they did not walk in cruelty ) nor handled the word of god deceitfully , but by manifestation of the truth commended themselves to every man's conscience in the sight of god. now i pray consider ; if you are preswaded , that that exercise of religion which you perform is the right , that that way of worship which you profess is the true , were it not fairer and more becoming those pretences , for you , as many of you as are preachers , by preaching , as many as are hearers by a pious life and godly conversation , to commend your selves ( as did the apostles ) by manifestation of the truth to every man's conscience in the sight of god ; than to manifest your indignation and envy towards those that are not of your perswasion , by committing them to goal , rifling their houses , tearing away their goods , ruining their estates , and beggering their children ? . you break that great command , which christ saies is the law and the prophets , viz. all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them , mat. . . this command ye transgress , in endeavouring to force others to your way of worship : for ye would not be so dealt with your selves . consider this well i entreat you . if you were to be compelled by imprisonment , banishment , fines , confiscations , or any other extream and rigorous proceedings , to conform your selves to that way of worship , and exercise of religion which we profess , or any others whom ye now present : would you not think it extream hard , and very unjust ? no doubt ye would , and so ye justly might . but then withal consider , that your imposing thus on others , is no less hard to them , no less unjust in you . ye have known us long , ye have had large experience of us ; ye have tried us many waies , and proved us after divers manners . and what evil can ye convict us of to this day ? have we not alwaies been a quiet , peaceable , harmless people ? when being reviled did we revile ? or when being persecuted did we not patiently suffer it ? ah what do you propose to your selves ? do ye think to root us out and destroy god's heritage ? it is impossible : the root of iesse bears us , and upon the immoveable rock are we immoveably built . o dash not your selves against it ! but if ye could destroy or ruine persons , yet is it possible that there can lodg in english breasts such more-than barbarous inhumanity , to destroy so many thousand families ! the rome-rid french and irish have gone far that way ; but english hands were never so defiled : god grant they never may . do ye think by rigorous and cruel usage to fright us out of our religion , and force us to desert our principles ? how can ye hope to accomplish such a thing , who have seen our unmoved constancy , and stedfast perseverance therein , under all the sufferings that have hitherto been inflicted on us ? have not many of us been already stript of all their outward substance ? not a bed being left them to lie on , not a stool to sit on , not a dish to eat in . is there a prison in the nation , or a dungeon in a prison , which has not been a witness of our groanings ? have we not been tried by banishment , and proved by death it self ? death in new-england , by the hand of the hangman . death in old england , by the rough hands of rude and boisterous officers and soldiers , who have given divers of our friends those blows , which in few daies have brought them to their graves . i might add to these , burning in the forehead , cutting off ears , unmerciful beatings , whippings , and cruel scourgings . but did any , or all , of these deter us from the worship of our god ? nay , hath not our chearful undergoing all these hardships , sufficiently evidenced to the world , that our religion and consciences are dearer to us ; than our estates , our liberties , our limbs or our lives ? why then will you repeat severities upon us , which have so often been tried before in vain ? can you take pleasure in putting others to pain , and delight your selves in afflicting others ? o suffer not your natures so far too degenerate from the gentleness and tenderness of true and generous english-men ! and think not the worse of us for our faithfulness to our god! he that is true to god , will be true to men also ; but he that is false and treacherous to god , how is it likely he should be true to men ? endeavour not therefore to draw us into unfaithfulness to our god : for that , to be sure , would be hurtful to us , and no way advantageous to you . neither be ye exasperated against us , from the difficulty you find in breaking our meetings , or because that when you have dragg'd us out of our meetings , and fined or imprisoned us for being there , you find us there again : but rather take it for an argument , that we sincerely love and believe our religion ; and that we find our meetings worth suffering for . for indeed , in our meettings we do meet with the lord our god , in whose presence is fulness of ioy , psal. . : the law of whose mouth is better unto us than thousands of gold and of silver , psal. . . yea , his loving kindness is better than life , psal. . . the god of israel , is he that giveth strength and power to his people ; blessed be god , psal. . . therefore harden not your selves against us , i beseech you , by miscalling our constancy , obstinacy ; our stedfastness , stubbornness ; our zeal , self-will ; our faithfulness to god , contempt of authority : but look back upon the apostles of our lord , and see if they did not just as we do . they were taken at a meeting in solomon's porch , acts. . . and sent to prison for preaching , chap. . . . next day they were brought forth and examined before the council , ver . , . and having made their defence , they were streightly , threatned , and commanded not to speak at all , nor teach in the name iesus , ver . . what answer did they make ? whether it be right ( said they ) in the sight of god , to hearken unto you more than unto god , judg ye , ver . . and presently after we read , they spake the word of god with boldness , ver . . well , they were quickly clapt up again , chap. . . . but when the council came together , and sent for them to be brought before them , and they were not to be found in the prison , ver . . . ( god having by his angel delivered them in the night , ver . . ) one came and told the council , behold , the men whom ye put in prison , are standing in the temple and teaching the people , ver . and when they had sent officers , and fetcht them again before the council , and asked them , saying , did we not straitly command you , that you should not teach in this name ? and behold ye have filled ierusalem with your doctrine , &c. ver . . their answer was , we ought to obey god rather than men , ver . . do you think the council did not take this for a disrespectful and provoking answer ? do ye think the jews did not count the apostles a stubborn , obstinate , self-willed people , that did this in despight of authority ? yet you , in words , condemn the jews and their council , and justifie the apostles in their thus acting ; and therein you do well . o let not your actions condemn what your words justifie , nor justifie what your words condemn ! for if you persecute us for the same things . which the apostles both did , and were persecuted for doing ; ye therein at once both condemn the apostles , and justifie those that persecuted them . and as they brought the guilt of innocent bloud , and thereby the wrath of god , upon themselves : even so will ye also upon your selves , if ye persist in the same course . which that ye may not do , is ( for your own sakes as well as for ours ) my earnest desire , and the end of this diswasive . the end . obiections: answered by way of dialogue wherein is proved by the law of god: by the law of our land: and by his maties many testimonies that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testifie his allegeance by the oath, appointed by law. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a stc estc s this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) obiections: answered by way of dialogue wherein is proved by the law of god: by the law of our land: and by his maties many testimonies that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testifie his allegeance by the oath, appointed by law. helwys, thomas, ?- ?, attributed name. aut murton, john, attributed name. aut [ ], p. s.n.], [the netherlands? : printed . variously attributed to thomas helwys and to john murton. imprint suggested by stc. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng oath of allegiance, -- early works to . freedom of religion -- great britain -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - megan marion sampled and proofread - megan marion text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion obiections : answered by way of dialogue , wherein is proved by the law of god : by the law of our land : and by his ma ties many testimonies that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion , so he testifie his allegeance by the oath , appointed by law. 〈◊〉 . . he shal judg amonge the nations , & re●uke many people : they shal breake their swords also into mattocks , & their speares into sithes , nation shall not lift vp a sword against nation , neither shall they learne to feight any more . 〈◊〉 . . then shall none hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountaine . ● cor. . . for the weapons of our warrfare , are not carnall , but mighty through god to cast downe holds . printed . to all that truely wish ierusalems prosperity , & babilons destruction , wisedome & vnderstanding be multiplied vpon you . in these days if ever , that is true which the wisemā said . eccl. . . there is none ēd in makeing many bookes , & much reading is a wearines to the flesh : yet considering how heynous it is in the sight of the lord to force mē ād wemē by cruell persecutiōs to bring their bodies to a worship , wherevnto they cannot bring their spirits : wee thought it our duety for gods glory & the reformation thereof in this our owne natiō to publish this litle writing following , wherein is manifestly proved by the law of god , the law of our lād , & his maties owne divers testimonies , that no mā ought to be persecuted for his religiō be it true or false , so they testifie their faithful allegiance to the king. what shal men do striveing about matters of religion til this be ended . for if this be truth that the kings of the earth have power frō god to cōpel by persecution all their subjects to beleeve as they beleeve then wicked is it to resist , ād the persecutiōs of such is iustly vpon thē , and the magistrats that execute the same are clere frō their blood , ād it is vpō their owne heads : but if the kings of the earth have not power from god to compel by persecution any of their subjects to beleeve as they beleeve ( seeing faith is the worke of god ) then no lesse wicked is it in the sight of god to disobey , and the persecutions of such are vpō the magistrats , & the blood of the persecuted crieth vnto the lord , and wil be required at the magistrats hands . wherefore in al humility , reverēce ād loyalty wee do humbly desire of our soveraign lord the k : ād al gods ministers vnder him , as iudges iustices of peace , etc. by whome this persecutiō is executed , thēselves to cōsider , not whether herein they please lord bbs : but whether they please the lord iesus christ , who after a little whyle shall judg all judges , according to their workes without respect of persons , ād therefore are comaunded to kisse the sonne least he be angrie & they p●rish in the way . psa . . our humble desire is , that they would consider what is testified in the scriptures : that , the kings of the earth shall give their power vnto the beast , til the words of god be fulfilled thē shal they take their power from hir . if it be granted ( as it is ) that the kings of this nation formerly have given their power vnto that romish beast , it shal evidently appeare , that our lord the king and al magistrats vnder him do give their power to the sāe beast though the beast be in another shape : for as that spiritual power or beast of rome sets vp a worship ( as they pretend ) for god , and force al therto by cruel persecutiōs , the kings of the earth giveing their power therevnto , so this spirituall power or beast of englād sets vp a worship ( as they pretend ) for god , and force al thereto by cruel persecutiōs , the kings ma tie giveing his power here vnto . oh that al that are in authority , would but cōsider by the word of god ( which shal judg them at the last day ) what they do , when they force men against their soules ād consciences to dissemble to beleeve as they beleeve , or as the k : and state beleeves , they would withdrawe their hands ād harts therefrom ād never do as they have done partely through inconsideration , and partely to please lord bbs : being in favour with the king. it cannot but with high thāk fulnes to god ād to the king be aknowledged of al that the kings ma tie is no blood thirsty man for if he were , bodily destruction should be the portion of al that feare god , and endeavor to walke in his waies as may be seene in the primitive time of this spirituall power or beast of england , after that king henry de . had cast of the romish beast , ād since , ( so far as leave hath bene graunted them ) by hanging , burning banishing , imprisoning , ād what not , as the particulars might bee named . yet our most humble desire of our lord the king is , that he would not give his power to force his faithful subjects , to dissemble to beleeve as he beleeves , in the least measure of persecution , though it is no smale persecution , to lye many yeares in filthy prisons , in hunger cold , jdlenes , devided from wife , family , calling , left in continual meseries ād tēptations , so as death would be to many lesse persecution , seeing his ma tie . confesseth that to change the mynd must bee the work of god. and of the lord bbs : wee desire , that they would a little leave of persecuringe those that cannot beleeve as they , til they have proved that god is welpleased therewith , and the soules of such as submit in safety from condēnation let them prove this , and wee protest we wil for ever submit vnto them , and so wil thousands : and therefore if there bee any sparke off grace in thē let thē set thēselves to give satisfaction either by word or writing or both . but if they wil not , but continue their cruel courses as they have done , let them yet remēber that they must come to judgment , and have their abhominations set in order before them , ād be torne in peeces when none shal deliver them . and whereas they have no other cullor of ground out of the scriptures , then that they have cano●●zed a law . viz : that whosoever shal affirme hat the k : ma : hath not the same power ove● the church that the godly kings of israel had vnder the law &c let him be excomunicate ipso facto . the vnsound 〈…〉 s of which ground is manifested in this dialogue followeing ▪ wherein is shewed their pal●able ignorance in that they knowe not the mi 〈…〉 iay of god , and therefore have they made this canon in flattery to the king onely to support their pride and cruelty : for if the kingdome or and of israell , or canaan now vnder the gospel be an earthly kingdome or land , or israel now a worldly or fleshly israell as both were vnder the law . then wee would confesse there should be an earthly king therof , but if the king some of israel now be not earthly but heavēly , ioh. . . and the isralites now not of this world . ioh. . . then the king thereof is not of this world , as they are not of this world . ioh . . ād if these spiritual lords cōfesse that chr : & king now of the sand ād people of israel , but yet he hath left our lord the king h●s deputy to make such lawes and lords over the church as pleaseth him : the word of the lord is against thē ●ere is but one ●ord . cor. . . & one law giver . iam. . . over his church . nay his ma : himself is against thē , who saith . there is no earthly monarch ever the church , whose word must be a law , & saith further . christ is his churches monarch , & the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk . . . the kings of the gentiles beare rule one over another . &c. but i shal not be so among you saying further . christ then he ascended , left not peter with them to direct thē in al truth , but promissed to send the holy ghost to them for that end . &c. if any wishe rebellions against the word of the lord herein , yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king . oh that any thinge would prevail with thē to make them leave of , these cruel courses of persecuting poore soules that desire truely to feare god , and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvatiō of the soules of these their cruel persecutors , who do seeke their vtter vndoeing by al the forenamed persecutions , onely because they cannot of faith offer vp such worship to god as these spirituall lords comaund , and the rather let them leave of persecutinge , seeing the kings ma tie acknowledgeth . it is a sure rule in divinitie , that god loves not to plant his church by violēce & bloodshed . and if it be a law for al christiās , that in indifferent thinges one must not offēd another , but the stronge but forbeare , rather thē offēd his weake brother , other wyse he wounds the weake conscience & sinnes against christ . . cor . thē how much lesse hath any man power to be lord over the weake conscience , forceing it to practice that it hath not faith , in bringing it thereby vnto same , and vnto condemnation . rom. . wee do vnfainedly acknowledg the authority of earthly magistrats gods blessed ordinance , and that al earthly authority and comaund apperteynes vnto thē , let them comaund what they will , wee must obey either to do or suffer vpō paine of gods displeasure , besides their punishment . but al men must let god alone with his right which is to be lord and law-giver to the soule , ād not comaund obedience for god where he comaundeth none . and this is onely that which wee dare not but maintaine , vpō the peril of our soules , which is greater then bodily afflictiō and onely for the maintenance of christs right herein , do false prophets and deceivers ( who by that craft are clothed in fyne apparel , and faire deliciously every day ) labor to make vs odious ī the ears ād eyes of prince and people , knoweing wel that if they had not power by persecution to force mē to dissemble to beleeve as they , their kingdome and paine would soone come to nought , the wickednes of which course is discovered in this writinge followeing . for the manner , being dialogue-wise , wee thought it the fittest in two respects . first , for the vnderstanding of the simple , to whome especially gods misteries apperteyne , more then to the wise and prudent of the world . secondly , because al the objections that wee have met with , might be set downe , and the playnelyer answered . and because wee have faith and assurance that many wil see and acknowledg the vnlawfulnes of tyrānyzing over the consciēce , vn persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject , wee have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection , that they may deliver their soules , if they wil be saved : and also have set downe the beginning of that old and good way , that iohn baptist , christ iesus , ād his apostles have left , vnto al that wil be saved ●nto the end of the world . beseeching that almighty worker , that he would worke in the harts and consciences of men , that they may enquire for it , and that out of the scriptures , and walke therein , thē shal they find rest vnto their soules , although afflictions to their bodies . oh 〈…〉 is time for the lord to worke , for they have destroyed his law , and have set vp in many nations such worship for god as best pleaseth thē that are in authority , and have power to persecute the contrary mynded . let all gods people cry . how long lord ? when wilt thou come to destroy antychrists cruel kingdome , and establish christs meeke and peaceable kingdome , as thou haist begun , even come lord iesus by the spirit of thy moueth , and the brighnes of thy coming , even come quickely . amen . by christs vnworthy witnesses , his majesties faithful subjects . comonly , but most falsly called annabaptists . antichristian . vvhy come you not to church ? christian . what should i do there ? a. vvorship god. c. i must worship god as he requireth , ād not as any mortal man requireth . a. true , but the worship that wee require you to offer vp , is the vvorship , god requireth . c. if it be so , i wil withal willingnes assēt vnto it , but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth , that i may have faith in it , other wise it is my grevious sai . rom. . . for i may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it . a. vvell you must go to church , othervvise you are disobedient to the law , & vvil fall vnder punishment . c. but still remember that you would have me worship god as you pretend , therefore let vs agree what worship god requireth : christ saith . ioh . . god is a spirit , & they that worship him , must worship him in spirit & truth . here wee see what worship god requireth , viz : that wee worship him with our soules and spirits , and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word : and therefore for your booke worship : if it were according to truth , ( from the which it is as far as light is from darknes ) yet if i cannot offer it vp with my spirit it is not acceptable to god , but most abhominable . a. well you must come to church c. i pray let aske you a question , do you seeke the glory of god , and the salvation of my soule herein , or your owne obedience ? a. i seeke the glory of god , and the salvation of your soule , & not my ovvne obedience . c. then manifest it , no by words onely , but by deeds and truth , which if you do , you will not threaten me punishmēt to cause me to come , but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth , ( for this is the duety of the minist . of christ . . tim. . . ) that i may come with a willing mynd , so shall i be accepted . . cor. . . psal . . . for if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment , banishment , or death , you cause me to bring my bodie , and not my spirit or soule , so shall i come neere to the lord with my lips , when my hart shall be far from him , which he accompteth vaine worship and hipocrisie . mat. . a. i perceive what you aime at , you would have none brought to church , but such as come willingly of themselves , so should every man worship god as himself pleaseth . c. your conclusion i aime not at , for i acknowledg that as there is but one god , so there is but one way of worshipping him , out of the which way , whosoever is ād repēteth not there of shal pay a deare price , and therefore it stādeth all men vpon not to please themselves in worshipping him . but you perceive aright that i aime at this , that none should bee compelled to worship god : but such as come willingly for i will ( by gods assistance ) prove most evidētly by the scriptures , that none ought nor can bee compelled to worship god to acceptance , by any worldly meanes whatsoever . a , prove that . c. wel i prove that i have affirmed , thus : first heb. . . without faith it is vnpossible to please god , and rom. . . whatsoever is not of faith is sin . these two scriptures prove most evidētly that whatsoever i have not faith in inworshiping god although it were vndoubtedly true , i may not offer it vp vnto god , for it is displeasing to him , and it is sin against him : as also it appeareth plainely by him , that came into the kings supper and wāted his wedding garment . mat. . a. it is the kings law that you must go to church , & therefore you must bee obedient . c. the intent of the kings law is not so , as appeareth both by the statute for the oath of allegiance , and also by his ma ties . owne words , manifested in his apologie for the oath of allegiance , as hereafter is more fullie declared . for if the intent of the law were to make me come to church to worship god , and not of faith , the intent of the law were to cōpell me to sin , which his ma tie . requireth not . antic . i deny not but whatsoever is not off faith is sinne , but vvee vvould have you come to church , to vvorship god of faith . c. it is not so , you regard not whether i have faith or no , for if you did , you would not vrge the kings law against me , which is but a carnal weapon , and cannot beger faith , ād there fore is no sure ground of faith . for in my obedience to god i must not presume above that that is written . . cor. . . for the vvord of god is the onely ground of faith rom. . . and therefore if you would have me come of faith , you would onely vrge the law of the king of kings against mee . a. hath not all the learned of the land considered of these things , & set thē dovvne , are such simple men as you likely to see more then all these ? c. i demaund of you whether they bee not all subject to err as all men are , and therefore i must try their spirits , whether they er or no. . joh . . . for i may not hold , either that they cannot err , or that if i find them to err i must obey them notwithstanding , do you not herein teach me that popish and accursed doctrine , that you invaigh so much against in the papists , that i must beleeve as the learned of the land beleeves . a. i do not hold that they cannot err c. yes you hold either that they cannot err , or if they do err , i must obey them , for if i do not obey them you threaten me punishment . a. nay , but i hold that they being learned do not err , & therefore you must obey them . c. then this is your argument : the learned do not err , and therefore must be obeyed . the bs : and the rest of that rāck are learned ād do not err , ād therefore they must be obeyed : another arg : as vaine as this may be collected from this ground . the learned do not err , and therefore must be obeyed . the pope and the rest of that rancke are learned , ( yea as learned as yours ) ād do not err , and therefore they must be obeyed . the one is as true as the other , but both abhominable . if you prove that they that want this learning , must not meddle with the waies of god , but as these learned men teach them , then indeed you said some thinge , but if you cannot , as most certen it is , you cannot . for the word of god is against you herein , then for shame to god and mē , leave of your cruell persecuting , for why do you persecute men that cannot of faith submit to your direction concerning the waies of god , vpon which consisteth their salvation if they walke in the true way of faith with love thereof , and their condemnation if they walke in by path . a. then i perceive if a mā can pleade that he hath not faith in any thing which the king commaunds he need not be obedient . c. would god all men could see your dealing herein , this is your vsuall course , whē your mouth is stopped by the power of gods word that you knowe not what to answere , then you runn to the kings comaund , and so make your matters good , like vnto your predecessors the wicked scribes and pharisies , who when our lord and maister had stopped their monethes that they had no word of answere , then they sought to make him a trespasser against cesar , but i have learned in some weake measure , that as there is a cesar vnto whome of conscience i must be obediēt , so there is another king , one iesus , that is king of kings , vnto whome if you will not be obedient in giveing vnto god that which is gods , he will te●r● you in peeces , when there shal bee none that can deliver you , & cast you into the lake that burneth with fire & brimstone for ever more , where th●re shal be no rest day nor night , and therefore agree with this your adversarie quickly , whilst you are in the vvay vvith him . the power ād authority of the king is earthly , and god hath comaunded me to submit to all ordinances off man. . pet. . . ● . and therefore i have faith to submit to what ordinance of man soever the king comaunds , if it bee an humane ordinance , and not against the manifest word of god , let him require what he will , i must of cōsciēce obey him , with my bodie goods and all that i have : but my soule wherewith i am to worship god , that belōgeth to another king , vvhose kingdome is not off this vvorld ioh . . vvhose people must come vvillingly . psal . . . vvhose vveapons are not carnall but spirituall . . cor. . . etc. ant. is this all the authority that you vvill give to the king ? c. what authoritie can any mortall man require more , then of bodie , goods , life , and all that apperteyneth to the outward man ? the hart god requireth . pro. . . he comaunded to give vnto cesar things that are cesars , & to himself the things that are his . lvk. . . now if al the outward man bee cesars , and the inward man too , so that he must be obeyed in his owne matters , and in gods matters also , then tell vs what shall be given to god ? if you or any mā will give him more power or authority then i give him , then you give him more then his ma tie . requireth , as shal bee shewed . a. wee do not say that the king can compell the soule , but onely the outward man. c. if he cannot compel my soule , he cannot compel me to worship god , for god cannot bee worshipped without the soule . ioh. . jf you say he may compel me to offer vp a worship onely with my bodie , ( for the spirit you confesse he cannot compell ) to whome is that worship ? not to god. then consider you who they worship that are thus compelled , ( say you by the king. ) let it well be here observed that you make the king a comaunder of such worship , as is not to god , contrary to his ma ties . owne mynd manifest in his writings . but this you do , not to advance gods glory nor the kings honor , but your owne cursed kingdome of darknes , which you hold by flattery ād falshood . for if this cōpelled worship ( which is not to god ) were takē away then your kingdome would fal to hel frō whēce it came , and therefore all men map here see it is supported onely by wickednes . a. i confesse the kings authority is earthly , but he is head over the church vnder christ . c. god forbid that any mortall man should so equallize himself with christ , who allone is head of his church , as the husband is of the vvife . ephe. . and hath left no o●e-gecent in that his office , for he is never absent frō his church . mat. . . and . . all that any mortal mā can be , is to be a subject of his kingdome , for their is but one lord. . cor. . . & one law-giver iam. . . and that this is so , his ma tie . confirmeth by his owne testimony , in his apologie for the oath of allegeance pag. . . but as i wel allowe of the hyrarchie of the church for distjuctiō of orders , ( for so i vnderstand it ) so i vtterly deny that there is any earthly monarch thereof , whose word must bee a law , and who cannot err in his sentence by an infallibility of spirit● : because earthly kingdomes must have earthly monarchs , it doth not followe that the church must have a visible monarch too : for the vvorld hath not one earthly temporall monarch , christ is his churches monarch , & the holy ghost his deputie . the kings of the gentiles reigne over them , but ye shall not be so . luk. . . christ did not promisse before his assention to leave peter with them to direct & instruct them in all thinges , but he promissed to send the holy ghost vnto them for that end . these are his highnes owne words , whereby it evidently appeareth his ma tie challengeth no supremacie over the church , but laboreth to overthrowe that abhominable exaltacion of that man of sin , in the romish professiō , for christ hath given no supremacie in or over his church , to any mortall man , but expresly commaunded the contrary as the place of luk mencioned by his ma tie . plainely declareth . his highnes is supreame head and gouvernor over all his subjects bodies and goods , within his dominions , and therein i detest and abhorr all forraigne powers whatsoever . but now for the thinge in controversie betwixt you and me , of compelling men by persecutions to do service to god ( as is pretended ) wherein they have not faith , it shal be manifest not to be of god , in that christ iesus himself , the onely lord and law-giver to the soule , neither had any such power and authority , neither taught any such thinge to his disciples , but the contrary . first mat. . . . all power is given me in heaven & in earth . go therefore & teach all nations and . cor. . . the vveapons of our war fare are not carnall , but mighty through god to cast downe holds . &c. here wee see christ hath no worldly power , nor worldly weapons . ly . he practised and taught the contrary . vvhen the samaritanes would not receive him goeing to ierusalem . luk. . his disciples would have had fire come downe from heaven & devoured them , christ rebuked them & said , ye knowe not of what spirit ye are , the son off man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . and the appostle by the spirit of christ : . tim. . . comaundeth the servants off the lord not to strive , but to bee gentle towards all men apt to teach , suffering the evil men patiently , instructing them vvith meeknes that are contrary mynded , proveing if god at any time vvil give them repentance that they may knowe the truth , & come to amendment out of the devils snare . &c. these scriptures need no explanation for this most evident truth . a. vvell yet notvvithstanding all this it is manifest in the scriptures by the example of thappostle peter smiting ananias and saphira to death . act. . & of th-appostle paul striking flymas the socerer blind . act. . and also by delivering hemineus & alexander vnto sathan for the destruction of the flesh : that punishment vpon the body may bee vsed , & the flesh destroyed : for if it were lawful for them to smite to death , & the like , though by extraordinary meanes , then it must be lawful for vs by ordinary meanes , since extraordinary meanes now failed , if you say it be not lawfull for vs , then you must say it was not lawfull for them , & that vvere to accuse them of laying a false foundation , vvhich none fearing god wil affirme . c. i dare not once admit of such a thought as to disallowe the truth off that foundation which th-●oposties as skilfull maister builders have said : but for your argument of peters extraordinary smiting of ananias and saphira , he neither laid hand vpon them nor threatned them by word , onely declared what should be san them from god , and therefore serveth no thing to your purpose , also that of paul to elimas , he laid no hands vpon him , but onely declared the lords hand vpon him , and the judgment that should followe . if you can so pronounce , and it so come to passe vpon any , do it , and then it may bee you may bee accounted maister builders , and layers of a new foundation or another gospell . and for th-appostle paul his delivering hymeneus and alexander vnto sathan . . tim. . . it was not by any temporall sword or power , but even by the power of our lord iesus christ , in his name , by the sword of the spirit . . cor. . . and this was not extraordinary , but ordinarye to continue in all churches to the end , and not to destroy the outward man , as you teach and practice , but to destroy those iustfull affections , which dwell in the flesh , that so the flesh being mortified , the spirit may bee quickned and the soule saved in the day of the lord iesus . and whereas you say that as they did it by extra-ordinary meanes so you may do it by ordinary meanes , if you would vse onely those weapons which christ commaunded his disciples to vse in this busines , which are not carnall , wee would agree with you herein . but if your ordinary meanes bee such as christ never had nor any of his disciples , then it is a meanes of your owne devisinge , for christ hath al meanes whatsoever for bringing men to the obedience of the truth . a. doth not christ in the parrable teach that he compelled all to come in ? c. i demaund of you wherewith doth he compel them ? he hath no carnall weapons , doth he not compel them by his word , vvhich is his tvvo edged svvord . heb. . revel . . . doth he smite the earth vvith any other vveapons then by the breath off his lips . esa . . . a. vvell then you see compulsion may bee vsed . c. yes , i confesse to you such compulsion as much as you will , if whē you have done you wil walke in his steps , who when the gaderens praied him to departe he left them , and taught his disciples : where they should preach the word of god , iff they would not receive them , that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witnes against them . mat. . . which accordingly they practized act. . . and . etc. he never taught them to pull the contrary mynded out of their houses ād put them in prisons , to the vndoeing of them , their wives and children : this was sauls course when he was a blasphemer and persecutor . etc. act. . . etc. christ taught his disciples to wait iff at any time god would give the contrary mynded repentance , and not to prevent their repentance by seeking their blood . indifferent man. i have heard you all this while , and by that i have heard , i see evidētly that none ought to be compelled by any worldly meanes to worship god , neither can any bee accepted in such worship , in that it is spirituall worship that he accepteth . c. blessed be the lord , that you see it , i would not you onely , but all men did see that the sword of the magistrate and al afflictions proceeding there from are onely vpon the outward man and cannot convert a soule from goeing astray , nor begett faith it comes by hearing the word of god rom. . . and therefore is no instrument in this worke . al that the magistrate can do , is to compell me to bring my bodie for except their be a willing mynd which no mā can see , their is no acceptance with god , and therefore it is not gods glory , nor my acceptāce with him they seeke by forceing me , but meerly their owne obedience to gods great dishonor ; and the distruction of my soule , if i should so do . but iff it would suffice them to bring my bodie , to that they call their church , and require of me no worship : i will go when they will , onely not when their false worship is performed . for i adhor the accursed doctrine off the familists herein . i. it is a lamentable thinge to consider how many thousands in this nation there be , that for feare of trouble submit to thinges in religion which they diseprove off . c. oh , whose eies doth not gush out with teares , in the consideration thereoff seeing in all that , god is highly displeased , ād al those vnder the judgments of god everlasting iff they repēt not . a. if it were as you would have it , that all religions should be suffered , how dāgerous vvould it bee to the kings person & state , what trecheries & treasons would bee plotted ? i. indead that is a thing greatly to be suspected : but if permission of all religions should be clered of that there is no questiō , but it might prevaile with the king and state. c. if it be not cleared of that then let al mē abhor it . first : it is the comaundement of him , who is the god not of confusion but off peace & order , and therefore to be obeyed . mat. ● . . let the good & bad grovv together vnto the end off the vvorld . suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing iff god at any time vvill give them repentance that they may acknovvledg the truth . &c. . tim. . . secondly : if the just lawes in that behalf made be but duely executed , which is , that all his subjects should protest their faithful alligeance to his ma ties . person . crowne and dignity , all that will not be obedient , let them be disposed of at his ma ties . pleasure , and you shall see no such trecheries and treasons practiced as hath bene . first for all those that seeke and practice in themselves reformation in religion , sathan himself cannot tar them with the least jott of trecherie : and for the papists may it not justly be suspected that one cheife cause of al their treasons hath bene because of al the compulsions that hath bene vsed against their consciences in compelling them to the worship practiced in publique according to the law of this land : which being taken away , there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable , as wee see it verified in divers other nations , where no such cōpulsiō is vsed , for if they might have freedome in their religion , vnto their faith full alligeāce to the king , the feare of the kings lawes , and their owne prosperity and peace , would make thē live more inoffencively in that respect . i. onely the papists are dangerous in that some of them hold , that kings ād princes that hee excomunicated by the pope , may be deposed & murthered , by their subjects or any other . c. for that damnable and accursed doctrine as wee abhor it with our soules , so wee desire al other may . and therefore all the lawes that can be made for the prevention of such exceecrable practizes are most necessarie . but now i disire all men to see , that the bishops and wee , justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the pope and his associates : that princes should bee murthered by their subjects for contrary myndednes in religion , yet they teach the king to murther his subjects for the selfe same thinge , viz : for being cōtrary mynded to them in their religion . so likewise , as that accursed doctrine , is to bee abhorred in the papists , who teach , subjects not to bee obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope : even so is that accursed doctrine of the bbs. to bee abhorred , who teach , princes not to protect their subjects that are excomunicate by them , in not affoarding thē either lawe or justice nor to beare testimony in any court. do not the bbs : herein justifie this accursed doctrine and practice in the papists ? . a. there is great difference in the persons , for th one are princes , thother subjects , & subjects must be obedient . c. most true it is , but is it not also true that princes must afforde all their subjects justice ād equitie , although they be as heathens and publicans ? for iff princes be freed from doeing right and justice and protectinge their subjects , that be excomunicate , why are not subjects also freed from subjection and allegeance to their princes being excomunicate , if , excomunication be christs lawe to all alike that wil be saved , without respect off persons . and also , is not that lawe off christ herein to be observed . that whatsoever ye would men should do to you , even so do you to them . mat. . . and therefore as princes would that all their subjects should bee faithfull and obedient vnto thē : so ought princes to be just and equall to all their subjects , in mainteyning them in every just and equall cause betwene man and man : for , for his cause ( not for religion ) saith thappostle , the saints at rome paied their tribute to cesar their heathē prince , who was against them in religion . shall they not escape damnatiō for this accursed doctrine and practice , ād thinke you you shall ? thou that judgest another , judgest them not thy self ? by this it may appeare as also by exceeding many other doctrines ād practices how neere you are to that bloody spirituall power , what pretences to the contrary soever you make . a. it vvere a lamentable thinge if that bloodie religion should bee practiced againe in this nation . c. i acknowledg it a bloodie religion , but god hath cast down the power thereof in this kingdome , blessed be his name but i would you could see your owne cruell bloodie religion , but that god of his mercy hath restrained it by the kings ma tie . who thirsteth not after blood . how many , onely for seeking reformation in religion , hath bene put to death by your power in the daies of q. eliz : ād how many , both then ād since , have bene cōsumed to death in prisons ? y●a since that cruel spiritual power hath bene ser ●p that not hanging , burning , exile , imprisonments and al manner of contempt bene vsed and al for religion , although some for grevious errors , ād yet you see not this to be a bloodie religion : further you cry out of their bloodie cruelty , the reason is because you wil not bee of their religion , and when you have done , are most blodie cruell ( so far as is in your power ) because wee and al men will not bee of your religion . a. if men hold errors & vvill not obey the truth , do they not sin against god , & deserve punishment ? c. yes , such deserve punishment , but god hath apointed their punishment , and the time thereof . their punishment rom. . . . to them that are contentious & disobey the truth , & obey vnrighteousnes shal be indignation & wrath , tribulatiō & anguish shal be vpon the soule of every one that doth evil . mark. . . he that will not beleeve shal be damned . . thes . . . in flaming fire rendring vēgeance vnto them that knowe no god , & obey not the gospell of our lord iesus christ , which shall bee punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the lord , & the glorie of his power . the time thereof , the last place recited . vers . . when the lord iesus shal shewe himself from heaven with his mightie angels : and rom. . . the day of wrath . and vers . , at that day when god shall judg the secrets of men by iesus christ ▪ and mat. ● . , at the end of this vvorld the sonne of man shall send furth his angels & they shall gather out of his kingdome al thinges that offend , & them that doe iniquitie , & shall cast them into a furnace of fire . &c. here is shewed the punisher the punishment , and the time thereoff . this punisher hath comaunded you to wait for their repentance ( by his owne example ) which is in his hands to give them , and not to cut them of and send them to hell , as you teach and practice , which is contrary to god , who is patient towards mockers which walke after ther lusts . . pet. . because he would have no mā to perish , but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance . but you ( contrary to him ) vse all the meanes you can to cut men of , that they might perish , in that you seke to destroy their bodies whilst they remaine in their errors . a. i confesse that god commaundeth mat. that the good & bad must grovv together vnto the end of the vvorld , but that is in the church . c. wel : if that be the true exposition , i pray you why do you then excomunicate any out off your churche , contrary to your owne acknowledg . and here let all men take notice that by this exposition you overthrowe your owne excomunication quite , and accuse christ for giveing a rule . mat. . and th-appostle paul , and the church of corinth for practizing that rule . ● . cor . in cas●ing out of the church . for you say all must growe together to the end in the church . but the exposition of the law-giver himselff is against you , that the ●eild is the world . vers . . yet in that you confesse that the wicked ād the godly must be l●t alone in the church vnto the end much more in the world vnto the end : for if the wicked pollute not the church , sure it is they pollute not the world . this then you are comaunded vnto vers . . . nay , gather them not let them growe together vnto the end of the world . a. let them come to church , & they shall grovve together vnto the end . c. indeed i thinke so , hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and vngodlie men be , so they come to your church , you wil not destroy thē , though they remaine in their abhominable lusts : but if they will not come to your chur : let thē be wheate or tares , you wil gather thē , and ( as much as in you is ) send them to bur●●n● . herein al mē may see , as i said before , that you seeke your owne glorie and obedience , & not gods , ād so exalt your selves above god. . thes . i. wel , i blesse god , i see this as clearly as the sunne shyning in his brightnes , that it is to feight against god to compel any contrarie to their consciences to performe any service vnto him , in that there are so many places of scripture comaunding the contrary . c : the whole new testament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of christ ād his disciples teach no such thinge as cōpelling men by persecutions ād afflictions to obey the go : pel but the direct cōtrary : viz : to suffer at the hāds of the wicked , whē they were persecuted for righteousnes sake to suffer it , when the vnbeleevers ād wicked curse them to blesse & pray for their repentance , & that god would forgive them , & never lay these sinnes to their charge , as our saviour luk. . stephen act. . . and the rest did . and for a conclusiō of this point , that your faith may bee full herein , consider that wee are to wait for the iewes conversion , and not to destroy thē . i. it is true , that might give all men satisfaction in these thinges . c. oh yes , if men had any regard of god or his word , they would never deale more in this thinge : the lord ( wee see ) rō . . hath promised , that whē the fulnes of the gentiles is come in , the jewes shal be cōverted : now if the jewes who are such fearefull blasphemers of christ ād his gospel , that contemne him and his testamēt with al dispyte , if their conversion must be waited for , ād that they may not be destroyed from the face of the earth , then who may not see ( iff they shut not their eies ) that the conversion off all is to bee waited for : and that no man for blaspheming christ ād his gospel map be destroyed or afflicted by imprisonments , death , or any calamitie whatsoever . i. it is not to be gain-saied with any shewe of truth . i would god the kings ma tie would consider of this point , seeing that the cruel bbs by vseing his power , commit such sin against god in this thinge both in persecuting thē that cannot of faith yeild , and also in foreeing them that do yeild contrary to their consciences , to sin against god , and to perish , if they repēt not . c. i am perswaded , that if his highnes did but once wel wey ād consider it he would never suffer such high iniquitie to be co●●i●ted against god contrary to his expresse comaundement , ād all to bee done by ●he kings power , for nothing have they els to beare them out . the lord perswade the harts of his ma tie and his posterity vnto it , seeing his throne is established by him , that he and his posterity may sit & raigne over these nations and kingdoms , till iesus christ the comaunder of these thinges come in his glorie to recompence every man according to his workes , without respect of persons . a. if vvicked malefactors should bee let allone to the end of the vvorld , then vvhere is the magistrats svvorde ? it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of . c. i acknowledg vnfainedly that god hath given to magistrats a sword to cut of wicked mē , and to reward the weldoers . rom. chap. but this ministery is a worldly ministery , their sword is a worldly sword , their punishments can extend no further then the outward man , they can but kil the bodie luk. . . and therefore this ministery and sword is apointed onely to punish the breach of worldly ordināces which is al that god hath given to any mortal man to punish . the king may make lawes for the safetie ād good of his person , state and subjects , against the which whosoever is disloyall or disobedient he may dispose , of at his pleasure , the lord hath given him this sword and authoritie , forseeing in his eternal wisedome , that if this his ordinance of magistracie were nor , there would be no liveing for men in the world , and especially for the godly , ād therefore the godly have particular cause to glorifie god for this his blessed ordinance of magistracie , and to regard it with all reverence . but now the breach of christs lawes , of the which wee all this while speake , which is the thinge onely i stand vpon , his kingdome is spirituall , his lawes spirituall , the transgressions spirituall , the punishment spirituall , everlasting death of soule , his sword spirituall , no carnall or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdome , nor to punish the transgressors of the lawes of this kingdome : the law-giver himself hath comaunded that the transgressors of these lawes should be set alone vntil the harvest because he knowes , they that are now tares , may hereafter come to repētance , and b●come wheat : they that are now blasphemers , persecutors , & oppressors as paul was , may , by the power of gods word become faithfull and a faithful witnes as he was : they that are now fornicators etc. as some of the corin : once were cor. . . may here after become washed clensed & sanctified as they were : they that are now to people nor vnder mercie as the saints sometimes were . . pet. . . may hereafter become the people of god & obtaine mercie as they did : all come not at the first houre , some come not till the eleaventh houre , if those that come not till the last houre should be destroyed : because they come not at the first houre , then should they never come but be prevented . a. were not blasphemers put to death in time of he lavv ? evit . . &c. c. yes , an isralite blasphemmy the lord , or doeing any thinge presumptiously , which was blasphemy . num. . . no sacrifice to bee offered for him : but would you from hence have the kings ma tie to put al his subjects to death that conteinne the truth of christ ? if yea , see what will followe . all papists ought to be put to death , who are direct blasphemers . revel . . vvhen the viall of gods wrath was powred vpon the throne of the beast : ( which all england confesse is ment the popish power ) they blasphemed the god of heaven . &c. all the iewes that speake many thinges blasphemously against christ , ought to be put to death : yea of what profession soever he bee doeing any thinge presumpteously against christ , ought to bee put to death by your affirmation , no sacrifice to bee offered , no repentance to be admitted , dye he must vnder two or three witnesses , but that this is most false , christ and his appostles in his testamēt doth manifestli declare as is before shewed : was no paul a blasphemer , yet received to mercie ? but this the holie ghost teacheth from blasphemy vnder the law . heb. . he that dispyseth moses lawe , dieth without mercie vnder two or three witnesses , of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he bee worthy that treadeth vnder foote the sonne of god , & counteth the blood off the testament as an vnholy thinge wherewith he was sanctified , & doth dispite the spirit of grace . speaking of such as had received & acknowledged the truth . vers . . this is now the due proportion , an israelite according to the flesh in the time of the law presumpteously sinninge against gods comaundemēt , by his comaund must dye , by the worldly sworde , no sacrifice to be offered for him : so in the new testament or time of the gospel a spiritual isralite according to the faith contempteously or dispitefully sinning against christs commaund he hath former acknowledged dispi●eing and contemning them , by his comaund must dye by the spirituall sword , no repentance to be admitted , seeing he crucifyeth againe to himself the sonne of god , & makes a mock of him . heb. . . david and peter came not within this compasse , though they sinned off knowledg , yet they did it not comtemteously or dispitefully , but through frailtie . if an isralite vnder the law did ought through ignorance as num. . or through frailtie as levit. . there was sacrifice for him : so vnder the gospel an isralit doeing ought through ignorāce or through frailtie as peter and barnabas with the rest of the iewes mencioned gal. . or the me●steous person . . cor. . there is repentance for him . this is it that cōfounds al true religiō . that be cause it was so in the time of the law , therefore it may be so in the time of the gospell , by which reason , men might set vp as truely the whole law as some parte , and vtterly abolish christ . i pray you seriously consider what is here said . a. hath not the king the same ●ovver that the kings of israel had who cōpelled mē to the observation of the lavv of god ? c. first i answere you : that the kings off israel had never power from god to set vp any thinge in or for the service of god , bur that onely which was comaunded by god dewt. . . no not so much as the manner of any law . num. . and . . and therefore this will not serve your purpose , that kings may set vp within their dominions such spirituall lords and lawes for the serveing of god , no nor the manner there of as may best please thēselves vnder what pretence soever , thereby makeing god for his worship subject to their pleasures . and his ma tie . acknowledgeth that christs church after the establishing of it by miracles in the primitive time , was ever after to be governed within the limits of his revealed will. speach at parl anno secondly the kings of israell might compell men to the sacrifices and ordinances of the old testament , all which were carnall and purged not the conscience heb. . . . as circumcision the passover etc : but no mortall man whatsoever he be , can compel any mā to offer the sacrifices of the new testament , which are spiritual , and purge the conscience except he can beget faith in him , and convert his soule . the ordinances of the old testament were to be performed by the posteritie of abra. according to the flesh that thereby they might be taught christ : but the ordināces of he new testamēt are to be performed , onely by the posterity of abrahā according to the faith , that have learned christ , and have put on christ , and so haveing him , all thinges els apperteyneth to them . but one thinge i demaunde of you , who now is king of israel ? a. i confesse christ is king of israel . c. yes , christ alone is king of israell , that sits vpō davids throne , and therefore mark the true proportion . in the time of the old testamēt the kings of israell had power from god to compel all to the ordinances of god , or to cut them of by their sword from the earthly land of canaan , and the promisses thereof : so in the new testament the king of israel christ iesus hath power from the father to compell all , to the ordinances of god , or to cut them of by his sword , from the heavenly land of canaan and the promisses thereof : the kings of israel onely had this power vnder the law , and the king of israell onely hath this power vnder the gospell : and therefore whosoever will challenge this power vnder the gospel , he must be the king of israel in the time of the gospell , which is particulier onely to iesus christ , vnto whome all power in heaven and in earth is given . and let it be here well observed , that by this opinion of yours you make the kingdome and ordinances of israel vnder the law , and the kingdome and ordinances of israell vnder the gospell allone , directly contrary to the whole scripture , for the kingdome and ordinances of israell vnder the lawe were of this world , but the kingdome and ordinances of israell vnder the gospell are not of this world , as christ the king thereof himself testifieth iohn . . and therefore you setting vp a worldly king over this heavenly kingdome and ordinances , you and all of your profession declare your selves to be of that worldly kingdome , and so to looke for that heavenly and spirituall king yet to come in the flesh , being of the number of those that deny him to be come in the flesh , anb so are deceivers and antichrists , whatsoever you say to the contrarie . a. well , yet i cannot see , but that as the kings of israel hath power from god to compell all their subjects , to the vvorship then appointed , so the king being a a christiā king , hath povver to compel his subjects , to the vvorship novv appointed . c. you may see , if you shur not your eies , that what power the kings of israel had vnder the law in matters of religion , christ iesus the king of israell hath vnder the gospell : but i pray you let me aske you this question . you say the kings ma tie hath this power as he is a christian king : my question is , whether it apperteyne vnto him , as he is a king , or as he is a christian ? a. neither simple as he is a kinge , nor as he is a christian , but jointly as he is compleate in them both : for i grant that no heathen kinge hath power to compell in matters of religion , but a christian king hath . c. then you confesse that of a christiā king may be deprived of his christianitie , ( for of his kingdome or kingly power , or any part thereof i affirme he may not be deprived ) he hath lost this power you plead for , in compelling men in matters of religion : what say you to this ? a. i confesse if he may be deprived of his christianitie , he hath not this povver i pleade for . c. then , i demaund this question , whether every christiā without respect of persons ought not to bee subject to christs lawes for his salvation ? a. yes , it cannot be denyed . c. christ hath given his censure excomunication , for the salvation of every christian , that he that will not heare the church , is to bee as a heathen and a publicane , that is , hath lost all right and title in christ , and in his church , till he repent , now i knowe it cāno . be denyed , but every christian whatsoever , is subject to sin , and so to excomunication to be as a heathen : etc : if you say , that kings either are not subject to sin , and to impenitency therein , and so to this cēsure of christ , of excomunication , for their impenitent sin , then consider what you make them , and god you make a lyer . if you graut ( as you cannot deny ) that kings aswell as others , are subject to impenitent sin , and so to excomunication for the same , then they being deprived of their christianity , by your owne confession , they are deprived of power to compel in matters of religion , the which if it were any part of their kingly power , they might be deprived of a part of their kingly power , by being excomunicate , consider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein . a. doth not the prophet say : that kings shal be nursing fathers & queenes nursing mothers to the church ? and also it is said that kings shal hate the vvhore , make her desolate , eate hir flesh , & burne hir vvith fire . vvhere vvee see , that kings that have power & authoritie , shal destroy antichrists kingdome , & nurrish & cherish christs kingdome . c. most true it is , the lord hath spoken it , and therefore it ought to be great comfort to gods people but what is this to the purpose in hand , namely that kings may persecute the contrary mynded , the words of the prophet esa . proves that kings ād queenes that have formerly persecuted ād destroyed the church , their harts shal be turned by the power of gods word , to be lovers and preservers of the church : ād the other place revel . . . proves that kings shal make that whore desolate , etc. not by their tēporal authority or sword ( as some say that make more shewe of religiō then you do , although thēselves be now persecuted , yet if kings were of their mynds , would be as cruell as you , for they maintaine the same thinge ) but by the spirit of the lords moueth , & the brightnes of his cominge . . thes . . . for this kingdome of antichrist shal be destroyed without hand . dan. . . onely by the everlasting gospell , the true armor indeed wherewith the witnesses feight against the antichrist . as the kings ma tie . acknowledgeth . apol. pag. . a. you are so stiffe against vseing off outvvard weapons in church matters , did not our saviour christ make a vvhipp of smale cords , & vvhipp the byers & sellers out of the temple ? and vvhy may not wee followe his example ? c. in this and many other actions of christ our saviour , wee are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law , as in the actiō of the passover , & sending him that was clensed of his leprosie to offer to the preist , the gift that moses comaunded , in which thinges wee are not to ymitate him , for by him the ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished , and the everlasting gospel established , in the which wee are to walke : and it were more then foolish to reason thus . christ whipped wicked men out of gods temple made with hands , with whips made of cord , therefore wee may whipe wicked men , out of gods temple made without hands , with whips made of cord . there is a whole some doctrine to bee collected from the tipe to the truth as thus . christ drive out wicked men out of the temple made with hands , by a carnall or worldly whipp , so christ ( by his people ) must drive wicked men out of the temple made without hands , by a spirituall whipp . evē his word , which is called a whip or rode . revel . . . and psal . . . so is excomunication . . cor. . . an. iff fredome off religion should bee granted , there vvould bee such devisions as vvould bread sedition , & inovatiō in the state. c. thus when your shewes out of the scriptures are answered , then you runne to conceits and ymaginations , of sedition , innovation and the like , thinkeing thereby to diswade princes , and ali t● , at are in authority there from , knoweing els your kingdome of iniquity would fal but that it may appeare to all that you deale deceitfully herein , let vs consider first the scriptures , secondly behold the successe , of suffering of of religion free in other counries . and first . christ our saviour , ( who is that prince of peace . esa . . . not of sedition ) hath taught . mat. . and luk. . that he came not to send peace on the earth , but debate , to devide fyve in one house , two against three , & three against two , the father against the sonne , &c. and a mans enimies shall bee they of his owne housholde . and his desire is , that the fire of such sedition , should bee kindled , where wee see , this prince of peace putteth difference in religion , by preaching his gospell , which some receive , as the savour of life vnto them : others refuse it , and so become enemies vnto the truth and witnesses thereoff , as they did to christ iesus himselfe , and his disciples , and as you do to me and others . secondly behold the nations where freedome off religion is permitted , and you may see there are not more florishinge and prosperous nations vnder the heavens then they are . i. the convocation of bishops and the rest have made a canō , that whosoever shal affirme that the kings ma tie hath not the same power in causes eccleciasticall , vnder the gospell , that the godly kings of israell had vnder the law , let him be excomunicate , ipso facto . c. yes they have so . in the beginning off his ma ties raigne when they had got him sure vnto them , of the which they so much doubted , as with my owne eares i heard some of their cheife followers say , whē his highnes was comming into england . now must steples downe , & wee shall have no more high commission . ( with lamentation they spake it ) then they made this canon , because their consciences are convinced , that they stand onely by his power , and if his hand bee turned , their spirituall power of darknes falleth to the pit of darknes , from whence it came , and whether it must go , there being never so much meanes vsed for the supporting off it , for the stronge lord hath spoken it . revel . . as for their sending men to hell ( as they suppose ) with their ipso facto excomunications , iff they had no stronger weapon for the supporting of their kingdome , it would stand but a short space . if israell now were of this world , as it was vnder the lawe , then they said somethinge : but iff it bee not of this world , as it is not . ioh. . . then the king is not off this world , for when this king came the worldly israell knewe him not . i. i see evidently , that al are but cavels , and that no mortall man can make any man offer sacrifices vnder the new testament , vntill he bee a beleever , and converted , for he must bee in christ , before he may offer sacrifices , for in chri : onely the father accepteth vs : but what say you , have they not power to compell men to come to the place where the word is publiquely taught that they may be converted ? c. wel : then you see that the example of the kings of israel ( who had power to compel thē to sacrifice , or to cut them of ) applyed to earthly princes , is gone as a meere doctrine of man , ād not of god. and for compelling mē to heare that they be converted , wee can learne of no better then of him , who if wee heare not wee shal have a dreadful recompence . he had al power in heaven and in earth for converting soules givē vn-him , and sent his disciples , as his father sent him . ioh. . . charging thē that whē they should come into a city . etc. if they would not receive them nor their word , to shake of the dust of their feet for a witnes against them , saying it should bee easier for sodom & gomorah in the day of judgmēt then for that citie or house : and so th-apostles went from city to city accordingly . here was no temples made , nor worldly power to compel al to come vnto them to heare the word off the lord , but they comaunded to goe from city to city and from house to house . i in those daies the magistrats were vnbeleevers but the question is where magistrats be beleevers . c. christ had al power needful for that worke if magistracie were a power needfull for that worke ▪ thē christ had not al power , magistracy is gods blessed ordinance in it right place , but let not vs be wiser thē god to device him a meanes for the publishinge of his gospell , which he that had all power had not , nor hath comaunded . magistracie is a power of this world : the kingdome , power , subjects , and meanes of publishing the gospell , are not of this world . a. a goodly thinge indeed that men must go about the countrie to preach . c. in your estimation it is base and contemptible , your pompe and pride will not beare this , it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion , till you come to the highest in getting to be cheife bishop of bishops within these dominions , and then cometh your fall , full lowe , iff you repent not , but the wisedome of god hath appointed the cheifest officers of christs kingdome , even the appostles , thus basely to go vp and downe , to and fro to preach his gospel , yea that worthy apostle paul preached this gospel night & day with many teares openly & throughout every house . act. . i. but if this bee thus / as for my owne parte i am fullie perswaded it is / then i see the high commission cannot stand for as i take it / it is onely for causes ecclesiasticall . c. so far as it is over church matters , it is most vnlawfull , for the comission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the lawes of christs church is given to christ the monarch thereof , a parte whereof he hath left to his disciples , which is no worldly comission or power , but onely the power of the lord iesus , the vttermost of which comission is excomunication . . cor. . a. the high commission is from the king , & dare you once call it into question . c. if i do take any authority from the kings ma tie , let me be judged worthy my desert , but if i defend the authoritie of christ iesus , over mens soules , which apperteyneth to no mortall man whatsoever , then knowe you , that whosoever would rob him of that honor , which is not of this world , he wil tread thē vnder foote : earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly kings but spirituall authoritie belongeth to that one spirituall king who is king of kings . a. well all your pleading vvill not serve your turne , either you must come to church , or els go to prison . c. i have shewed you by the law of christ that your course is most wicked , to compell any by persecution to performe any service to god , ( as you pretend . ) now i desire also to shewe you , that the statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience , and his ma ties writings mainteyning the oath of alligience testifieth the same . the law of the lād requireth that whosoever cometh not to church or receiveth not the sacraments , the oath of allegeance is to bee tendered to them , which that it may be manifest to 〈…〉 that not onely i , but al that professe the faith with me are most willing to subscribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth , i have thought good to ●presse it . the words of the oath . anno . iacobi regis . i. a. b. do truely & sincerely acknowledg , professe & testifie , & declare in my conscience before god & the world , that our soveraigne lord king iames is lawful king off this realme , & of al other his ma : dominions , & countries : and that the pope neither of himselfe nor by any other authoritie of the chu : or sea off rome , or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authoritie to depose the king , or to dispose any off his majest : kingdomes of dominions , or to authorize any forraigne prince to invade or annoy him , or his countries , or to discharge any off his subjects off their allegiance , & obedience to his majest : or to give licence or leave to any off thē to beare armes , raise tumults , or to offer any violence or hurt to this ma : royal person , state or goverment , or to any off his ma : subjects within his ma : dominions . also i do sweare from my hart , that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence off excommunication , or depravation made or granted , or to bee made or granted by the pope or his successors , or by any authority derived , or pretended to bee derived frō him or his sea , against the said king , his heires or successors , or any absolution off the said subjects from their obedience . i wil beare faith and true allegiance to his majesty , his heires and successors , and him and them wil defend to the vttermost off my power , against all conspiraces and attempts whatsoever which shal bee made against his or their persons , their crowne and dignity , by reason or cullor off any such sentence or declaration or otherwise , and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make knowne vnto his majesty , his heires and successors , all treasons and traiterous conspiraces , which i shal knowe or heare of , to be against him , or any of them . and i do further sweare , that i do from my hart abhor , detest , and abivre , as impious and hereticall , this damnable doctrine and position , that princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the pope , may be deposed , or murthered by their subjects , or any other whatsoever . and i do beleeve , and in conscience am resolved , that neither the pope nor any person whatsoever hath power to absolve me of this oath , or any part thereoff , which i acknowledg by good and full authority to be lawfully ministred vnto me , & do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary . and all these thinges i do plainely & sincerely acknowledge , and sweare according to these expresse words by me spoken , & according to the plaine & comon sense and vnderstanding off the same words , without any aequivocation , or mental evasion , or secret reservatiō whatsoever . and i do make this recognition & acknowledgment hartily , willingly & truely , vpon the true faith of a christian . so helpe me god. a. this oath was intended for the papists & not for you . c. it is not so . for his ma tie at the last session of parli : anno . saith thus . some doubts have bene conceived anent the vseing off the oath off allegeance , & that parte off the act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought so obscure , that no man can tell vvho ought to bee pressed therevvith . &c. and therefore iff there bee any cruple touching the ministering thereof , i would wish it now to be cleared . &c. and therevpon this statute was made anno . regni regis iacobi . &c. chap. . rowards the latter end . and if any person or persons whatsoever of & above thage of yeres do now stand or at any time hereafter shal stand , & be pretented , indighted , & convicted , for not coming to church , or receiving the lords supper , according to the lawes & statutes of this realme , before the ordinary , or any other haveing power to take such presentments , or indightmēts : or iff the minister , pettie constable , or churchwardēs , or any two of them , shall at any time hereafter complaine to any iustice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any person complained of shall dwell , & the said justice shal find cause of suspition , that then any one iustice of peace within whose comissiō or power any such person , or persons , shall at any time hereafter be , or to whome complaint shall bee made , shall vpon notice there off require such person or persons to take the said oath . and that if any person or persons being of thage of . yeres or above , shal refuse to take the said oath , duely tendered vnto him , or hit according to the true intēt & meaning of this statute that thē the persons authorized by this lawe to give the said oath , shall & may commit the said offender to the comon jayle &c. where wee see that if any take the said oath at their first apprehension , they are not to be comitted , or if they being comitted , take the said oath at the next open court , they are to bee set at libertie , if they will not take the said oath , to bee in premunire , as is at large in the statute declared , & as is daylie practiced with papists , & others . a. the kings majestie requireth your allegeance to be testifyed by your cōming to church . c. i pray let me demaund this questiō , doth the k : require my coming to c : to worship and serve god , or to worship and serve the k : if to worship and serve the k : i am ready to obey : if to worship and serve god , which none can do , but of conscience , the king himself saith he never intended to say any thinge to the charge if any for cause of conscience , ād this coming to church being a cause of conscience , if not he , why do you lay any thinge to my charge , for the same . and therefore you wronge his ma tie in thus affirming : for his highnes requireth onely my faithful allegeance to bee testified by the a fore said oath , and therefore hath ordeyned it , as i shal shewe by his highnes own testimony . if i should come to church , and not of consciēce , but for other respects , as many papists and other hipocrits do , to god it were most abhominable and what faithfulnes can be hoped for in such , towards his majesties person and state , can any godly wiseman thinke that he that playeth the dissembling hipocrite with god , that he will do lesse with men , and wil not worke any villany if it were i●●●● power , ād therefore herein , you compelling 〈◊〉 by tyrannie to bring my bodie , wherevnto my spirit cannot be brought , you cōpel me to hipocrisie with god and man , for if my hart were not faithfull in sincerity to his majesties crowne and dignitie , as i take god to witnes ( before whome i must be condemned or justified ) it is , these courses would rather harde my hart to worke villany then otherwise . now for his majesties many testimonys in his wrytings , they are worthy to bee recorded with thākefulnes to the highest for guiding his hart and pen to write such thinges . in his apology for the oath of alegeāce pag. . he saith . speaking of such papists as tooke the oath of allegeance . and i gave a good proofe that i intēded no persecution against them for conscience cause , but onelie desired to bee secured off them for evil obedience which for conscience cause they were bound to performe . & pag . speaking of blackwel the arch-preist he saith . i never intēded to lay any thinge to the said arch preists charge as i have never done to any , for cause of cōsciēce . & pag. . he saith . first for the cause of their punishmēt , i do constātly maintaine , that which i said in my apologie : that no man , either in my time , or in the late queens . ever died here for his conscience : for let him be never so devout a papist : nay though he professe the same never so constantly , his life is in no dāger by the lawe . if he breake not out into some outward act expreslie against the words of the law : or plot not some dangerous or vnlawfull practice or attempt . &c. where wee may 〈◊〉 short what is the whole some that he req 〈…〉 . and in his majesties speach at the last session off parliament anno domini . where he saith he sheweth his subjects his hart . he saith thus . i never found , that blood , and too much severity , did good in matters off religion , for besids : it is a sure rule in divinity that god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloodshed , natural reason man even perswade vs , and dayly experience proves it true . that when men are severely persecuted for religion , the gallantnes off many mens spirits , and the wilfulnes off their humors , rather then the justnes of their cause , makes them to take a pride bouldly to endure any torments , or death it selff , to gaine thereby the reputation off marterdome . though but in a false shadowe . a most vndoubted truth , which iff it bee ( as most manifest it is by the testimony of the holy ghost , throughout christs testament as before is proved ) then how cursed are al the ranke off you , that continewally breake this sure rule off god , thus confidently acknowledged by his majestie , planting your church by violence and bloodshed forceing many thousāds against their consciences to bee off our church , and to receive your sacraments , by all the persecutions that would followe : if they did not yeild , and those that feare god more then men , and dare not yeild , casting them into noysome prisons : amongst most wicked blasphemers off god , to the wounding off their soules : deviding them from their wives . children and families , and from their callings some an hundreth myles and more , vtterly consuming that substance they have , which sustaineth the blood of them their wives and children : seldome or never affording them release , but either by yeilding to you against their consciences , or els by con●uming their bodies to death , in prisō banishment , or the like , leaveing them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery , in parting them , & their wives , ād to al manner of evill in takeing them from their callings , ād so leaveing them in continuall idlenes . is gods church thus planted ? or do christs disciples thus plant ? i. oh i● this spirituall power is little inferior in cruelty to the romish spirituall power / i pray how or whi was this set vp . ? c. henry the . casting of pope clement the . and so the popes power anno . set vp this spirituall power vnder him : see act. and mo : pag : . etc. i. i pray you shewe the likenes betwene these two spirituall powers . c. i wil doe my best endeavor which is but smale . first , the romish spirituall power doth make lawes to the conscience , and compel al therevnto by excomunication , imprisonment , banishment , death and the like . this spiritual power doth the like , vpon the like pennalties as al knowe . the romish power doth give titles to his ministers , which are the titles off god and christ , as spiritual lords , great bishope ād many more . this spirituall power doth the like as all knowe . the romish power doth set vp lords over their brethren in spiritual thinges , vnto whome they comaund honor , and great liveings to bee given great pompe and pride . this power doth the like , as all knowe . i shall not need to speake of this , in that all bookes are full and all consciences ( excepe those that are scrared with hot irons ) convinced here off . let but maister fox , or any others who have described the spirituall power of rome , let but their discription thereof bee compared with this spirituall power in all their lawes , courts titles , pompe , pride , and crueltie , and you shal see them very little differ , except in their cruelties , which ( glory bee to god ) the kings ma tie . who thirsteth not after blood hath some thinge rear a ne● , although it is most grevious crueltie to lye divers yeres in most noysome and filthy prisons , and continewall temtatione of want , their estates overthrowne and never coming out many of them till death , let it bee well weighed , ād it is little inferior to the cruel suddaine death in times of the romish power in this nation . i. it is very apparant it is that ymage or similitude off that beast spoken of revel . c. oh yes , for their is no such image of the popish power vnder the heavens as this : wel our comfort is , the stronge lord hath said . the kings of the earth ( by whose power both the beast and his image is supported ) shal take their power from hir , then shall she stand naked and desolate , and to this purpose his majestie hath a worthie exhortation to all princes , etc. in his apologie . pag. . the words are these . for as she did flie , but with your fethers , borrowing as well hir titles of greatnes , and formes of honoring hir , from you , as also enjoying all hir temporall liveings by your liberalities , so iff every man do but take his ovvne againe , she vvill stand vp naked , &c. oh that the vvords off ggd might bee accepted off his majesty , set downe by the holy ghost rom. . thou that teachest another , teachest thou not they selff ? for iff he would take but his owne , their titles of greatnes ād formes , off honoring them , and their temporal liveings , this spiritual power would stand very naked and desolate . i. well the harts off kings are in the hands of the lord and he can turne them as the rivers off water / but i desire your advice for my owne estate : i knowe every one must be are their owne burden / i have a long time remained subiect to this spiritual power / partely through ignorance / and partely through feare . c. i wil first declare vnto you the judgmēts of god against such as submit therevnto , that so from an vtter abhorring thereof you may come out never to returne thither againe . secondly : i will do the best i can to shewe you the way the lord requireth you to walke in , and that onely out of his word . the judgments are so feareful as i tremble to thinke off them , greater then which , is not manifested in the whole booke off god , revel . . . . and the third anngell followed them , sayinge with a lowde voyce , iff any man worship the beast and his ymage , and receive his marke in his forehead , or on his hand , the same shal drinck of the wyne of the wrath of god , yea of the pure wyne that is powred into the cup of his wrath , he shal be tormented in fire and brimstone , before the holie anngels , and before the lambe . and the smoake of their torment shal ascend evermore , and they shal have no rest day nor night , which worship the beast and his jmage , and whosoever receiveth the print of his name . i. i confesse these iudgments are to be trembled at / but how do you apply them properly to such as worship in these assemblies ? c. for the satisfaction of al consciences herein that it may appeare playnly , not to be gainsaid , let vs cōsider the words of wisedome , set downe in order as they lye . and first : what is ment by worship . ly : what by the beast . ly . what his jmage is . ly . what his marke is : ād lastly what is ment by forehead or hand . and first for worship , it is plentifully manifested in the scriptures , that it is service , subjectiō or obedience , to such thinges as are comaunded by god , or others : as mat. . . exo . . dewt . . and therefore his servāts wee are whome wee obey . rom. . . and as the lord saith : iff i be your maister , where is my feare ? if a father where is myne honor or worship mal. . ly : by beast , the scripture speaketh sometimes of cruel men in power and authority , as dan. . . luk. . . . . tim. . . sometimes of a blasphemous spiritual power exercised by men , received off the dragon exalting it selfe above god , makeing war with the saints , and overcoming them , and that hath power over every kindred , and tongue , and nation , so that al that dwell vpon the earth worship him . etc. and this is the beast here spoken of , even that spirituall power or jurisdiction of rome : which first wrought in a mistery , and by degrees was exalted , till at the last it was exalted to this cruell beast discribed . revel . . . etc. which beast openeth his moueth to bla●phemy against ●od , saying and practizing , that the comaundements that god hath given for his service , are not to bee regarded , but in steed thereof setteth , vp comaunds of his owne , vnto the which whosoever will not bee subject , excommunication and all crueltie even to death will ensue , yea even with gunpowder err it faile , and for this his crueltie he is called a beast . thirdly : by image is ment any forme , shape similitude , or resemblance of the thinge spoken of , as deut. . . . etc. exo. so that where soever such a spirituall power is , as this aboue discribed , there is the beasts image , as in england , the like power or beast to the first , is not to bee found vnder the heavens , in exaltation and cruelty . fourthly : by marke , is ment profession or practice , whereby wee are knowne from others as mat. . . . iohn . iohn . . . as badges or markes do put difference , betwixt this mans and that mans , in cattel or servants , as by such a mans marke wee knowe these are his sheepe , and by such a mās badg . wee knowe this man belongeth to such a great man : so they are said to have put on christ , that have received his baptisme . gal. . . even as a servant is knowne by putting on his libery . lastly , forehead or hand , the holy ghost vseth that phraise from the old testament , where gods people were commaunded , not onely to lay vp his commaunds in their harts and in their soules , but to bind them for a signe vpon their hands . that they might bee as frontiers betweene their eyes . dewt. . . and . . . the wysedome of god therein teaching , that the forehead and hād are the apparantest parts of the body , to the view of all men : so that to receive the marke in the forehead or hand , is to make manifest profession of him wee obey . the some of all which is , that whosoever openly professeth obedience , and subjection , to that spirituall cruell power off rome , the beast , or to that spirituall cruell power off england , his image , ( wheresoever they or eyther of them are exalted ) such a one , and such persons shall drinke off the wine off gods wrath , and bee tormented in fire and brimstone , and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore . i. your discription of the beast / the papists will deny / so will the english lord bbs : and their followers deny your discription of his ymage / but thousands will grant both : and some will deny both / as the familists / who say / that religiō standeth not in outward thinges / ād therefore they wil submit to any outward service / and they that do not so / but suffex persecution ( say they ) are iustly persecuted . c. those enimies to the crosse of christ are most of them not worth enformation , because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin , after enlightninge , haveing forsaken the way wherein they walked , because they would not beare christs crosse , but in that some simple soules may be seduced by them let vs a little in generall compare their opinion with the scriptures . true it is , that religion standeth not onely in outward thinges , for god requireth the hart : and truth in the inward parts , but that god requireth not our subjection ( vpon feareful punishments ) to those outward ordinances which he requireth , is a doctrine of devils as i shall prove . and first , for the outward ordinances off the old testamēt , which were meerly shadowes , & now are beggerly rudiments gal. . . what indignation the lord had towards them that transgressed . nadab and abihu , offering straing fire , which the lord hath not comaunded , a fire went out from the lord , & devoured them , levit. . . . the men off bethsh●mosh lokeing into the outward arke which god had forbidden . num . . the lord slevve fifty thousand , & threescore and ten of them . . sam. . . ozza , of a good intent leaninge his shoulder to the same outward arke which god forbad , the lord slewe him . . chro. . .- . ozziah the king offering vp outward incense , which god comaunded onely the preist num. . . . the lord smit him with leprosye vntil his death . . chro. . corah and his company : what feareful judgments came vpon thē ( though he a levite ) for presuming to meddle with the preists office , the earth openinge and swallowing them vp . num. . king saule , likewise offering vp incense ( in time off need as he thought ) the lord rent his kingdome from him . . sā . . as also for his disobedience afterwards touchinge the fat of amelecks cattle . . sā . . how often was the wrath of the lord powred downe vpon the isralites : because off their transgression of his outward ordinances , in place , person , and thinges , for it was a low. levit. . . . that who so brought not his sacrifice to the place . viz : to the doore of the tabernacle of the congregation , but offered it vp other where , blood should be imputed to that man , & he should be cut off from among his people : yea such sacrifices were estemed off god , as offered to devils , vers . . & the lord caused them to pronounce . dewt. . . cursed be he that confirmeth not al the words of thir law . to do them . & all the people must say so be it : was god thus jealous of moses ordinances , ād is the lesse jelous of christs ? must he die that dispiseth moses law , and shal he escape that dispiseth christs ? vpon what pretence soever . and christ saith . it becometh him & all his to fulfill all righteousnes in outward ordināces as washinge with water . mat. . . & whosoever saith , he knoweth god , & keepeth not his comaundments ( which are outward , as wel as inward ) he is a lyar . . ioh. . . & whosoever breakes the least comaundment , and teacheth men so , he shal be called the least in the kingdome of heaven . mat. . . & whosoever will not heare that prophet ( chr : iesus ) in al thinges that he shal say vnto thē , shal be destroyed out off his people . act. . . . the affectiōs of the soule are to be manifested by the actions of the body , according to gods word , and al other good intēts or affections are abhominable . wee may not neither can wee , worship god with our spirits , and the devill with our bodies : for vvee are bought vvith a price , and therefore must not bee the servants off men , but must glorifie god with our bodies , & with out spirits , for they are his . . cor. . . and. . . and this mai suffice to satisfy any cōcerning the over throwe off this accursed conceit , knowing also that christ and his apostles , and all his disciples to the end of the world , might , and may live peaceably enough from persecution , if this doctrine might be observed viz : submissiō with our bodies to any outward service . the lord discover such hipocrites . i. i blesse god i have learned of thapostle . cor. . . to say nothing against the truth / but for the truth / and therefore when i see thinges are evidently manifested by the scriptures disirous to submit ād not to cavil . but you knowe it is pleaded they have the word and sacraments in the english assemblies . c. i confesse they have the scriptures , in the which gods misceries are conteyned , which is locked vp from thē , ād revealed to his saincts . col. . . which they woefully pervert to their owne destruction : they have also imitations of gods ordinances , as water , bread and wine , ād other thinges , which they use after their owne invētions , which thinges maketh them boast so much of their christianity and of their church , and which maketh them reason thus . wee are gods people , for wee have the word and sacraments . the philistimes might better have reasoned : . sā . . who had the true arke of god amongst them , these have but a shewe . wee are gods people , for wee have gods arke and holy oracles amongst vs. but i thinke they had no great cause to rejoyce there of in the ēd : no more shal these have in the end , when god recompenceth al that with hold the truth in vnrighteousnes . gods dealing is not now as it was of old , he now reserveth punishmēt to the last day , he is patiēt , and would have men repent : but they despise his bountifulnes and long suffering , preaching peace when there is no peace . i. it cannot be denyed / but that the ministers preach many excellent truths / and do bring people to much reformation in many thinges . c. true it cannot be denyed . for if the devil should come in his owne likenes , men would resist him , but because he trāsformeth himselfe into an angel of light , therefore he deceiveth . so his ministers , if they should teach al lyes , mē would not be deceived by them , nor plead for them , but because they teach many truths people receive them . but first : for whatsoever they teach , they neither could nor should teach publiquely , their moueths should be stopped , if they received not that their power to teach such truths frō those the dragon sends , ād therefore none cā receive those truths from thē , but they receive the devil by whose power they teach for as our saviour saith mat. . . he that receiveth you , receiveth me , and he that receiveth me , receiveth him that sent me . so he that receiveth those the beast sends , receiveth the beast and he that receiveth the beast , receiveth him that sent him , that is the devil . further did not that southsayer balaam , teach excellent truths ? num. . . chap. yea the southsayers of th philistines the like . . sam. . yea those in the gospell preach in christs name . mat. . , as many we testimonies might be manifested , and secondly . for their bringing off people to reformation , and therein doeing great workes , did not the southsayers before recited . . sam. . shewe the princes their sin , in deteyninge gods arke and the judgments against them for the same , exhorting them to send it away , and not to harden their harts , as pharaoh and the egiptians hardned their harts ? and was not reformation wrought hereby ? ād did not they that preached in christs name cast out devils , and do many and great workes ? of whome our saviour testifieth , he never acknowledged them . but let vs a litle consider wherein the reformation consisteth , procured by their preachinge , in drunckennes , whoredome , swearing . etc. moral dueties , which thinges whosoever is not reformed in , shal never see gods kingdome , yet which thinges many of the philosophers ( that knewe not god ) abounded in , as they that knowe the stories cannot deny . but do they teach their hearers to hate vaine inventions and love gods law ? in a generall manner of teathing they may , but iff it come to particular practice , you shal see what they will do : do they teach any to submit to that one law giver christ iesus , for the guydance of his church , and not to antichrists abhominations , no they will tell you , you must sigh and groane , till the magistrate will reforme : for you are a private person , and must bee subject : and iff the powerfull working off gods word and spirit prevaile in you , to let you see , that the magistrats not reforminge , wil not excuse you at the day off account , but that , that soule that comitteth abhomination shall dye , and that rather then you will worship the beast or his image , you will suffer with christ peaceably seperating your selfe from such opē prophanatiō as neither can , nor will be reformed , endevouring to square your selfe both in your entrance , and walking in christs way , vnto that golden read , which he hath left for direction : then the best off all these preachers and reformers , will be hot and bitter , laboring with al the turning of devices to turne you , and with hold you from reformation : and iff they cannot prevaile hereby , then publish you in their previleged pulpits , where none may answere them : you are a schismatique , brownist . annabaptist and what not , to make the multytude abhor your doeings , ād not to followe you therein , and some of them ( iff not all ) vnder a cullor , procure your imprisonment , and trouble , by their canonized lords , or some off their heilish pursevants . and such preachers of reformation are the best off them all . a. oh how have we bene besottes in these thinges for wāt of true knowledg and vnderstanding from the scriptures / how have i and others satisfyed our selves with these thinges / in that our estate was happy / perswading our selves thereoff / when alas our feare towards god was taught by the inventions of men but the reason thereof was wee iudged our selves by our owne perswations / and not by gods word . c. i pray you let not that seme straing vnto you , that people should perswade themselves of their good estate with god , when it is not so . the isralites gods people thought their estate good , many tymes , when alas at it was otherwise , as the prophets declared vnto them yea our saviour testifieth , that they boasted of god being their father , when they not so much as knewe him . ioh. . . yea when they were of their father the devil . vers . . the fyve foolish virgines though their condition good enough , and that they should have bene let in , but it was otherwise . luk. , the wicked thought they did god service that killed christs disciples . ioh. . . mans hart is deceytful . ier. . . who are more confidēt of their good estate with god then the papists , notwithstanding al their grosse abhominations ? even so have you and i ( god pardon vs ) thought beyond al , that wee were in a good estate , haveing such zealous teachers , that teach so many excellent truths vnder the title of christs ministers , til wee came to examine them , as the church of ephesus did revel , . then wee found them to hāve no other ministery then that they received frō the beast and his image , which the dragon gave . revel . . i. are all without exception in this feareful estate to bee cast into the laike that burneth with fire and brimstone ? c. al that submit , obey , or worship the beast without exception , for their is no respect of persons with god. so saith the lord : if any man worship . &c. these ( worshippers vnder the beasts image ) may bee devided into two sorts . first , those that ignorantly perswade themselves that al that is practiced is good ād acceptable to god. secondly : those that see and aknowledg many thinges to be evill which they would gladly have removed , but because they cannot without the crosse of christ , partly for that , and partly by the perswation of their prophets ( that the thinges are not fundamenttall and the like pretences ) all submit , and teach men so . i. some affirme / there be thousands in england / that never worshipped the beast etc. but be careful to kepe the comaundements of god , and faith of iesus . c. such are not vnder these judgmēts , but if there meaning be of any that submit to these ordinances appointed for these assēblies , such teachers preach peace whē there is none , strengthē the wicked , that they cannot returne from their wicked way , by promissing them life , whose reward shal be according to the reward of such false prophets . ezek. . . and chap. . . because they followe their owne spirit , and have not received it from the lord. for thus saith the lord , such shal drinck of the wine of the wrath of god. i. it is also affirmed by some / that in respect of personall ●races / some of the professors ( as they are called ) are the children of god / and may be communicated with privately / th●ugh in respect of their church actions they are members of antichrists body to whome the iudgments of god apperteyneth . c. this opinion proceedeth not from gods word , but from mans vaine hart , by the suggestion of the devil , which that it my evidently appeare , let vs a little consider of it . in truth it is to say , that in one respect they have gods promisses aperteyning to them : in another respect they have gods most fearfull tormēts ( pronounced against that beast , and that false prophet . revell . . ) apperteyning to them : in one respect they are gods people , serveing him their maister : in another respect the devils people serveing him their maister : in one respect , they shal be saved , in another respect they shal be damned : but what false doctrine this is , gods holy word doth discover . our saviour saith : no man can serve two maisters , ye cannot serve god and riches . mat. . . and can any serve christ and the beast , god and the dragon ? when christ shal come at the last day to give to every man according to his workes , wil he say to any one , in respect of thy personal graces , i will save thee , come thou blessed , ( as he wil say to all his children ) but in respect of thy being a member of antichrists body , i will damne thee , go thou cursed as he wil to al that worship or obey the beast ? wil not christ iesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to every one ? and that according to this word ioh. . so as god in his righteousnes will either justify or condemne , every man : so hath he taught vs to knowe , that no fountaine can make salt water and sweet iam. . . and therefore that by mens fruits wee should knowe and judg thē to be not both good and evill trees at one time . as this opinion teacheth , but either good or evill : alwayes takeing heed , wee justify not the wicked , nor condemne the innocent , both which are abhominable to the lord : ād for any comuniō whatsoever with them , what fellowship hath christ with antychrist , the righteous with the wicked : the servant of the lambe , with the servants of the beast ? but i leave this for further answere to those who although they are nearer to this man , that hath published this opiniō , thē i am yet hath ( according to truth ) confessed in writinge . that there is nothing to be expected frō christ , by any member of the church of england , but a pow●ing out of his eternal wrath , vpon them . mr. de-cluse . advertis . pag. . i. wel / i praise god / i am much enformed in these thinges yet one thinge more i wil desire your answere vnto . the case standeth thus with me . in these thinges i am betwixt faith and doubting / though the rather / i beleeve these thinges you say are true / and that i may never go to these assemblies againe without sin / but i am not so perswaded thereoff / that i dare suffer for it / what if i should ( not haveing faith to suffer ) for feare of persecution / go to their worship againe . c. it were your most feareful sin , which i prove thus , and i pray you observe it wel you must do it , either as being verely perswaded you do well , and then al this beginning of light in you should bee extinguished , ād so your estate is with the worst , if not worse : or els you must do it , doubting whether you do wel or no : for i hope you wil not say you do it knowing you do evil . if you do it doubting , the lord saith : it is sin . rom. . . which i hope you will acknowledg , and not approve your selfe to do wel in syning , and then god is mercifull to forgive your sinne , either this or any other . . iohn . . . but iff you say you sinne not therein doeing it doubtingly , you make god a lyar who saith : it is sin , & your sin remaineth . i. what iff i should many times go through weaknes ? c. if you vnfainedly repent , being through weaknes , there is mercy with god , though it should be seaventy times seven times in a day . mat . . . but wee had need to take heed of our repentance . th-apostle saith , where there is godly sorrowe for sin , what care it worketh in you yea what indignation . &c. . cor. . and custome in sin , is dangerous , wee had need to take heed , wee be not hardned , through the deceitfulnes of sin . heb . . i. then you how / that if any man approve himselfe in syninge / his sin remaineth . c. if any man sin , and say he hath not sinned . there is no truth in him . . ioh. . . and god vvill enter into judgment with him . ier. . . i. then absolutely i see that if any man worship the beast or his ymage / etc. as before you have shewed / he neither hath faith nor feare of god in him what shewe of godlines soever he maketh . but what say you , man not a man that seperateth from all vncleanenes / though he yet / see not the way off christ / in his ordinances may not such a man bee saved . c. yes , vpon this conditiō , that he beleeve in iesus christ for his onely righteousnes , and be willing and ready , to heare and obey his ordinances , example hereof wee have in cornelius . act. . but if anie wil not heare that prophet ( chr : iesus ) in al thinges whatsoever he shal say vnto thē shal be destroied out of his people . act. . . . a. what do you meane by wil not heare ? c. that when any parte of the waies of god is manifest to them they despise , and contemne it , or carelesly neglect it , otherwise men may not receive some of christs truth , ād yet not be said , that they wil not receive it . i. next / after forsaking the wayes of wickednes / and imbraceing christ for our righteousnes what must wee do ? c. christs whole testament teacheth this , and no other way , after repentance , from dead workes , and faith towards god , to be baptized with water . mat. . . act. . . and . . . and . . and a clowde of witnesses , calling these the beginnings of christ , and foundation . heb. . . etc. i. may none be admitted to the church / to pertake in the ordinances , except they be baptized ? if any teach otherwise , he presumeth above that which is write . . cor. . . ād therefore ought to be held accursed . gal. . . . for there was never true church , since christs manifesting in the flesh , joyned together of vnbaptized persons though some have vainely published , the contrary . i. true / i thinke that cannot be denyed / where the persōs were never baptized / but now the members of the church off rome from whence the baptisme of the church of england cometh / are baptized / therefore why need they againe be baptized . c. if they bee baptized with christs baptisme , i wil acknowledg they need not againe be baptized , but that the baptisme of the chur : of rome . is christs baptisme : that can never bee proved , for christ requireth that onely his disciple should baptise his disciple , and into his body . none of which is in romes baptisme : for christs adversaries wash with water , those that are not christs disciples , into the body , not of christ , but of antichrist . i. i confesse that the church of rome and mēbers there of are the church and members of antichrist / but they vse the water and words in their baptisme that christ appointed . c. what thē : is it therefore chr : baptisme ? the conjurers vsed the same words that thapostles did act. . . etc. wee adjure you by the name off iesus . &c. yet abhominable was their action : also psal . . vnto the wicked said god , what haist thou to do with my ordināces ? or to take my word in thy moueth , &c. also the papists vse the same words of their church , that christ hath appointed to vsed of his , as also of their ministery , is it therefore chri : church and ministery ? they vse also the same washing water , and words in baptizing their bells , that they use in their baptizing their infants , is it therefore christs baptisme ? if āswere be made , bells are not to be baptised i answere no more are the seed of wicked persecuters , by our opposites owne confession . iff this were any thinge you should see what will followe : the baptisme of rome is christs baptisme , because they use water and these words : so if any vse water and these words , as the iewes or any other of christs adversaries as the papists are , there is christs baptisme , consider this and see what truth there is in it . a. though the baptisme of the chu : of rome should bee ●ought / yet the baptisme of the church of england may bee good / in that there bee many thousands that were never baptised in the church of rome . c. i answere that the first beginning off the church of engl : was made of the mēbers of the chur : of rome , as is apparant in the dayes off king h. the . and afterwards in the beginning of q. elizabeths raigne , after q. marys death and so contynueth vnto this day , and the long contynuance of it , maketh it not aproveable : ād the papists thēselves did the protestāts prove if they have or hold any other baptisme church or ministery , then that they have from them , ād shewe it , and they wil recant . besides the baptisme now practized in the chur : of england , is no better no otherwyse then that of rome : for the chur : of rome baptizeth al the infants of the most wicked that are in hir dominions : and so the chu : of england baptizeth al the infāts of the most wicked that are in the kings ma ties dominions , and of this timber are both these churches buylt , and therefore wee may truely say : as is the mother , so is the doughter . and as they are in their first buylding , so are they in the most of their lawes , lords law-makers , courts , ād thousāds of their abhominations in so much as it is playne enough , the latter is the very image of the first , vnto which , whosoever submitteth or obeyeth , or maintenieth their baptisme , or any other of their humaine trash , he shal be tormēted in fire ād brimstone for evermore , ād shal never have rest day nor night . revel . . & therefore in gods feare cast away that cursed actiō of washing , where was neither chr : disciple administring , nor his disciple vpon whome it was administred nor christs body or church baptized into : and obey christs voice , in becomeing his disciple , ād to his church , that you may be baptized by his disciple , and be made a member of his body or church . this onely is christs baptisme , and of him acknowledged and ought to be off al his disciples , and the contrary to be held accursed , and in no sort mainteyned or kept . i. it is obiected / that we must cast away that which is mans ordinance / and reteine that which is gods ordinance / namely / washinge and water and words . c. i deny that any thinge in that action was gods ordinance or appointment , what truth is there in this : to say , that because god apointeth water , and washing , and words in his baptisme , therefore howsoever water , and washinge : and these words are vsed , that is christs ordinance . i confesse water ād washinge , ād words are gods ordinance , being vsed as he hath comaunded , the which i acknowledg must bee held : but this vse of thē , or action forespoken off being not the vse of thē , or action appointed off god ( as the adversaries confesse ) is to bee cast away as execrable . i further it is obiected they repent of that which is evil and reteyne that which is good . c. for the better discovering of this deceit , let vs consider what is the evil then cōfesse , ād that they repent of , say they , an vnlawful persō , performed an vnlawful action vpō an vnlawful person , this is the evil . now this is the questiō whether this actiō thus vnlawfully performed may be kept , and yet repented of . the scripture teacheth , that not onely confessing , but foresakeing sin , is repentance . pro. . . cā a theife that hath stolne goods , repent thereof to acceptance with god , and not make restitutiō to the party wronged ? being in his power , or haveing ability to restore , i would knowe how this wil be maintayned for the one is a greater theft thē thother . i. it is further obiected / that ieroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their ydolatrous estate / yet such as were circumcised in that estate / were not afterwards circumcised when they came to repentance . c. it is there foregery so to object , for either they had right to circūcisiō , being true isralits although in transgression , or els none had right to circumcision in the world , no not iudah : for what cā be said , but that because the ten tribes were in rebelliō against god therefore they had no right to circumcisiō : may not the same be said in as high a mesure of iudah ? was israels sin halfe so great as iudahs ? if it bee said that israel forsooke the place of gods worship the tēple , so did iudah to , worshipping vnder every grene tree , and grove , and high place : whatsoever cā be said of the one , as much may be said of thother . this is a meere deceitfull forgery raised vp by sathan , in the harts of his false prophets , to deceive thēselves , and thē that shal perish , if they repēt not , in that they receive not the love of the truth , but beleeve these lyes , and have pleasure therein , concluding frō this false ground , that because the isralites in transgression were circumcised , and after comeing to repentance were not circumcised againe : so egiptians , sodomites and babilonians , never haveing bene isralites , baptized in the synagogues of sathan , are not to be rebaptised , as they cal it , there being no comparison betwixt the persons : th one being true isralites acording to the flesh , gods people , to whome by gods appointement circumcision aperteyned , ād who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it : and thother true babiloniās gods adversarys , vnto whome god threatneth his judgments , for takeing his ordinances in their mouethes or hands . i. i see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the persons in circumcision and baptisme / for the one were the persons appointed of god to be circumcised , which circumcision taught them the forsakeing of their wicked waies / and bound them to the observation of the law . gal. . . and they had no cause to repent of that their action : thither are not the persons appointed of god to be baptized but sinned in that their action and must repent thereof by your opposites owne confession . but if this be granted / this question ariseth who shal then baptize after antichrists exaltation ? c. for answere to this : there are three waies professed in the world , one by the papists , and their several successors , professing succession frō the pope and his ministers : another by the familists and scattered flock ▪ that none may inter meddle there with lawfully ▪ til their extraordinary men come : another , wee ād others affirme that any disciple of christ in what part off the world soever commeing to the lords way , he by the word and spirit off god preaching that way vnto others , and converting / he may and ought also to baptize thē : the two former i shal through the helpe of god confute / and confirme the latter by the scriptures . first to the papists and all their severall successors ( some standing for all by succession from rome / some for more / some for lesse / some for nothing but baptisme / being of our judgment for the appointing of their ministery . to them all i answere with the words of the lord / ps . . . what hath antichrists ministers to do to take gods word in their mouths , or to declare his ordinances , seeing they hate to be reformed , and have cast gods word behind their backs . if they have nothing to doe with his word and ordinances / then not with ministery and baptisme . besides god hath foribidden that the adversaries of him / his temple / and them that dwel in heaven should build according to that of nehemia . . . the god of heaven he wil prosper us , and wee his servants wil rise vp and build , but as for you , yee have no portion nor right nor memoriall in ierusalem . . to that fantasticall sect i answer . it is their dreame and false vision / to looke for extraordinary men / for god hath not spoken it . for if an angel frō heaven should come & preach otherwise , then those extraordinary men the appostles have preached which none els could preach / & which is written in christs testament / wee are to hold them accursed gal. . . . which truth none need go into heaven to seeke , but every one that searcheth the scriptures may find by the direction of the holie ghost , which god hath promissed to all that obey him . act. , and aske it . mat. . . i now i pray you let me heare your confirmation of your practice . c as it was in the second building of the materiall tēple , after the captivitie of babylon in caldea , so according to the true porportion , it is to be in the second building of the spirituall tēple after the captivitie of spirituall babylon . now this is observed in the former that every israelite , with whome the lord was , and whose spirit , the lord stirred vp , was commaunded to go and build ezra . . . . though some were more excellēt in the busines then others . so now every spirituall israelite with whome the lord is , & whose spirit the lord stirreth vp are comaunded , to go and build , and the lord wil prosper them in riseing vp and building , though some be more excellent in the busines then others , the begining of which spirituall building , is first to beget men a new by the immortall seed of gods word , so makeing them liveing stones , & therevpon to couple them together a spirituall house vnto god . pet. . vpon the confession of their faith / by baptisme / as the scriptures of the new testament every where teach , as before is shewed . i it is confessed of many / that any that hath giftes may preach and convert but not baptize . c such our saviour accounteth hipocrites , and reproveth mat. . that held it was lawfull to sweare by the temple but not by the gold on the temple , by the altar , but not by the offering on the altar : to whom he saith , whether is greater the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold ? the offering , or the altar that sanctifieth the offering ? so may i say , whether is greater the water and washinge , or the word that sanctifies the water ? i. what other example have you in the scriptures , that on vnbaptized person may baptise ? c. if there were no other then that aforementioned , it were sufficent . an israelite circumcised in flesh god stirring vp his hart was to build , the temple made with hands , from the first stone to the last , so an isralite circumcised in hart , god stirring him vp , is to build the tēple made without hands from the first stone to the last , begining with , go preach , and baptise , teaching to observe all that god cōmaunds , as christ teacheth his disciples to the end of the world . but further wee have the particuler example of iohn baptist , who being vnbaptized , preached , converted , and baptized . i. but iohn baptist was an extraordinary man it wil be obiected / for god spake to him extraordinarily . c. what then / is not his practice written for our instruction ? god hath spoken at severall times after sundry manners heb. . . etc. yet all to one end , as for this of iohn baptist , the same god that spake to iohn baptist in the wildernes his word , the same god speaketh to vs in his scriptures the same word he spake to iohn , and there fore seeing the lord hath spoken who shall not preach and practice according to his word , seeing now god speaketh to no particuler persons , for what soever is written afore time is written for every mans instruction . rom. . . i. many famous men as mr. perkins and others cōfesse , that if a turck shoud come , to the knowledg of the truth in turkie , he might preach the same to others , and ●●●erting them baptize them / though vnbaptized . c. true , but this misterie of iniquitie so prevaileth perswading many that they are christians , because they had baptisme in their infancie whē it apperteined not to them that they think their case is better then the turckes , though alas it is much worse , for it shal be easier for the turkes then for them if gods word be true . are not all iewes & gentiles in one estate by nature , and is there more then one way of comming to christ for them both namely to be the sonnes of god by faith and to put on christ by baptisme gal. . . . who hath set vp his new way ? christ or antichrist ? i. many of those caled brownists doe confesse that they are reasonable perswaded that antichristians cōming to the truth may be baptized / and they would not differ with you concerning that / but that you deny infants baptisme / what say you / may not the infants of the faithful be baptized ? c. no except god have appointed it . i. you know it is granted that there is neither plaine comaund nor example for it in christs testament , but from the consequence of circumcision , in that covenant that god made with abraham and his seed gen. . and other places agreeing therewith . c. let vs endeavor to put an end to this if it may be in short . i demaund of you / what covenant the lord meaneth here . it must be granted he meaneth , either the covenant of the land of canaan withall the promisses thereof : or the covenant of christs cōming of his loynes concerning the flesh , or els the covenant of life and salvation by christ , one of these three it must needs be , let me have your answere / or any mans hereto . i. the first and second cannot be pleaded , therefore it must be the third , namely life and salvation by christ . c. wel , then i demand , hath the fleshly childr 〈…〉 of the faithfull , more previlege to life and salvation then the faithful themselves ? i. no i think it cannot be sayd . c. wel , then i affirme that the faithfull have right to this covenant of life and salvation onely upon their repentance and faith , and not otherwise , & so have their children & not otherwise , except you wil say they have greater previlege thē the faithful : or els that they shal have life & salvatiō by their parents faith : or els that they have right and title to it , whether they repent and beleeve or no. if any say they have right and title to it by gods promise . i answer god hath promised life and salvation by christ to none that are vnder condemnation but onely by repentance and faith : let any shew the cōtrary if they be able . if any say as some foolishly have done , being vrged / that it is the covenāt of the visible church : what covenant is that but the covenant of life and salvation made to the faithfull , christs body and church . and therefore seeing they are so confounded herein , some teaching one thing , some another : some that infants have neyther faith nor repentance , but by vertue of the covenant made to their parents : others teach that repentance and faith is to be performed of every one that is to be baptised , & that infants may repent and beleeve by their suerties till they come to age themselves : seeing i say they are thus confounded herein , having nothing in christs perfect testament , onely some shew of a forged consequence , and also that they agree not among themselves . let vs take heed of prophaning the lords holy ordinance , administring it where he hath not cōmaunded . many other things might be sayd , but this may suffice , seeing much is already written , & more may be ere long : knowing they have nothing to say but their severall conceits . i. but what doe you then hold of infants ? c. that they are innocents as christ teacheth . mat. . . &c. & . . &c. . cor. . . that they have no knowledge . deut. . . ionah . . that god speaketh not to them , requiring any thing at their hands , deut. . . mat. , . rom. . . . cor. . . and therefore they have not sinned , seeing sin is the breach of gods law . . ioh. . . rom. . . i. then you hold they shal be saved . c. wherefore should they be condemned ? i. for that originall sinne , they have received from adam . c. well . it is not my purpose now , time wil not serve to answere all the objections that are made in this matter . in short i trust to cutt downe that conceit , that any infant should be condemned as thus . i demaund of you , did any of adams posteritie fall deeper in that trāsgression then he himself ? i. no i never heard it affirmed , but as deep as he . c. well , out of your own ground you shal be convinced . did god ever purpose or declare , that adam for that transgression should goe to hell ? consider it well before you answer . i. no , for from eternitie he purposed that christ should be betwixt that syn , and condemnation . c. you say true : then for that sin , god never purposed to condemne adam to hell : if not him for that , why any of his posteritie for that ? let this be considered , it is your owne ground . further i say , and that without contradictiō , it was never gods purpose that any should go to hell , but for refusing christ . this is condēdation that light ( or christ ) is come into the world / and men love darknes better . ioh. . . and christ will condemne the world of sin , because they beleeve not in him . ioh. . . i. i cannot contradict you in this , i will better cōsider of it , but i pray you what hold you then of predestination ? c. if you conceive the former , you may see what i hold , namely that before all beginings , it was gods purpose or predestination that , saltiō should consist in the receiving , or beleeving in christ , and cōdemnatiō in refusing of christ . he that will not beleeve shal be damned . mar. . . and not otherwise . i. then you hold that god hath predestinated some to be saved , and some to be damned . c. yes , as i told you , namely the receivers of christ to be saved : and the refusers of christ to be damned , but that god hath predestinate or appointed some to the meanes & end , namely to be wicked and to be damned , is the most blasphemous conceit , that ever sathan foysts into mans hart , or braine . a. but are men left then to their owne free will ? c. what doe you meane by free will ? i. abilitie of our selves to do good or evill . c. you say well , that truely is freewill . to do evill , and to resist gods word and spirit , wee have freewill or power of our selves , act. . . & . . but to do good , or to receive gods word or spirit , wee have no power of our selves . god worketh the will and the deed herevnto . phil. . . wee are both begotten againe of god by his aboundant mercie in christ , to that heavēly inheritāce & kept by his power ( through faith ) unto salvation . . pet. . . . so that nothing apperteyneth to us but shame , to him onely apperteyneth the glory for our life from death & for our preservation therein . i. how comes it then that some do beleeve / and some do not ? c. that any do beleeve i have shewed you the cause , without the which none could beleeve , namely gods mercy in christ , in quickning vs that were dead by his powerfull & lively word spirit : that some do not beleeve , the cause is , they having freewill to do evill / & to resist gods & word and spirit / vse the same / and so do not beleeve . that any beleeve it is thus gods mercy / that most beleeve not / the cause is not gods / but their owne wicked resisting will. i. it is sayd / that the reason why some beleeve not / is because god doth not effectually call them / as he doth the other : for if he did / they should come . c. this saying / is partly blasphemous / partly ignorant / blasphemous / in that it lyeth the cause of their not beleeving on god / in that he effectually calleth them not / & maketh god a dissembler in his word / who saith / as he liveth he would have it otherwise : ignorāt it is / in that such persōs as so say / know not gods work in creating man : for if god had made adā otherwise then he made him / eyther vnchangeablie good or evill / he must have made him eyther a god or a devill : for if he could not have resisted god / by his creation / then what was he / but as god / vnchangeable : and if he could not have resisted the devill by his creation / what was he but a devill vnchangeable ? or if he could not have resisted god in eating the forbidden fruit / how could god have manifested his mercie to him in christ ? or if he could not have resisted the devill therein / how could god justlie poure out his iudgmēts upon him / for his obediēce to sathan / god creating him therevnto . now for vs adams posteritie / it is graunted of all / that wee have the same will or power to evill that adam had or rather worse / though not the wil to good he had / and therefore men may and doe resist god in his effectuall calling of them / as adā did in gods effectuall forbidding him that tree . god is no respecter of persons / he calleth all effectually and in good earnest / and whosoever holdeth otherwise he hath an evill conceit of god. i. i praise god you have given me great satisfaction in these things / what must we do after our baptisme ? c. as the saints our predecessors did . they that gladly received the word were baptized , and they continued in the apostles doctrine , fellowship , breaking of bread and prayers . act. . walking in fear towards god / and in love in word and deed / one towards another / according to the blessed rules in christs testament ; and also justly and unblameably towards all men / that they may cause their conversatiō aswell as their doctrine to shine before men / that men may set their good works , & glorify their father , which is in heaven , without the which conversation all profession is nothing . a. it is a great stumbling block to many / that divers / who professe religion walk corruptly in their conversation / it is great cause that the wicked open their mouthes against gods truth . c. alas , it is most lamentable , but gods people must knowe , it hath bene and will be so vnto the end of the world . and therefore hath christ iesus appointed meanes for the redressing thereof in his church . mat. . & . cor. . &c. and we may not justify or condemne any religion whatsoever by mens personall walkings . may we say / the religion of the philo●●phers was good because of their morall ver●es ? or that the religion that iudah and da●●d professed was evill , because of iudahs in●est , and davids adulterie / and murther . gen. ●● . . sam. . or the religion of christ evill / because that one that professed it , fell into incest ● . cor. . gods people had need to take heed assuming / whereby to cause the adversaries to ●laspheme , for the which god may make them ●xamples to all succeeding ages . a. i give you hartie thankes for your paines with me in these things / and i trust i shall not let them slip but remember them all my life / and put them in practise . c. the glory and thanks thereof onely be 〈…〉 ngeth to god , for to him it is due , but this i desire you to consider / that the knowing of the 〈…〉 ll of god / without practising of it / doth vs 〈…〉 ther hurt then good / the scripture saith . not 〈…〉 he knowers but the doers are justifyed rō . . . ●am . . . and he that knowes his maisters wil & doth not shal be beaten with many stripes . may there be in this nation ( with greefe of soule i speak it ) that acknowledge and confesse the truth / but practise it not / for some respects or other ; the lord perswade all your harts to the speedy practise thereof / and that by many examples that are left vnto you . david that mā of god saith , i made haist , & delayed not to keep thy cōmaundements . psal . . . the disciples mat. . ymmediately without tarrying followed christ . the three thowsand the same day ●hey were enformed obeyed the lord and were baptized . act. . the samaritanes act. ● . assoone as they beleeved were baptized both m●● and women . the eunuch likewise ver . 〈…〉 iaylor / lydia , paul , and a clowd of witness 〈…〉 comming not with flesh and blood , but obey the lord assoone as they beleeved . here w 〈…〉 no staying to heare what this , and that learn 〈…〉 man could say against it , as now a daies , but they were confidently perswaded thereof , th 〈…〉 obeyed . and so i am assured it shal be by lit 〈…〉 and little as the kingdome of the beast diminisheth . i. i hope i shall testify to all / my spedie walking 〈◊〉 the steps of these holie men / but one thing there is yet which hath much troubled me and others / and in my judgem●●● hath much hindred the growth of godlines in this kingdom and that is that many so soone as they see or feare 〈◊〉 will ensue / they flie into another nation who cannot 〈◊〉 their conversation / and thereby deprive many poore ig●●rant soules in their own nation / of their information / 〈◊〉 of their conversation amongst them . c. oh / that hath bene the overthrowe 〈◊〉 religion in this land / the best able and great 〈…〉 part being gone / and leaving behind them some fewe / who by the others departure have ha 〈…〉 their afflictions and contempt increased which hath bene the cause of many falling back / and o● the adversaries exalting / but they wil tell vs we are not to iudge things / by the effects / therefore we must prove that their flight vnlawfull or we say nothing . and first / whereas it is said by some of these fliers / that many of the people of god fled into forraine countries / and that god gave approbation thereof / as moses / david / our saviour christ in his infancie / & others / thinking here●y to justify this their flight . i answere / god ●eserved moses and the rest in their flight / till ●etime was come that he imployed them in his ●●rvice / then in no case he would suffer them to 〈…〉 e / as when moses manifested his exceeding ackwardnes to the lords work in helping his ●eople out of bondage vsing many excuses / the lord was very angry with him exod. . . — . ●nd whither did our saviour flie / when the ●ime came that he was to shewe himselfe to israell ? luk. . . if any of these men can prove the lord requireth no work at their hands to be 〈…〉 e for his glorie and the salvation of thousāds of ignorant soules in their owne nation / let thē●tay in forraine countries . but i trust gods people have learned / not to say the time is not yet come that babell should be destroyed / and the lords house builded / but that the time is come to build the lords house / and not to dwell in seiled houses / hag . or any way to seek our outward promotion ; which if it be granted / that the time is come / not onely to come out of babel but to destroy her / all these objections are nothing / except they prove that when god called any of his people to his work / they left it for feare of trouble . this doctrine was not approved of god when the time came that his adversaries were to be rooted out / and that his people had gotten some victory . the rubenites , and the gadites could have been content to have remayned to their most peace & cōmoditie . nū . . but moses sayd vnto them , shall your brethren goe to warre and ye tarie here ? wherefore now discourage ye the harts of the children of israel &c. sharplie reproving them as an increase of sinful men risen up in their fathers steads still to augment the feirce wrath of the lord / and moses would not be satisfied vntill they had promimised that they would goe with their brethren to the lords worke / and would not returne to their houses / till they had accōplished the same . and the angel of the lord doth say . curse ye meroz , curse the inhabitants thereof , because they came not to help the lord , to help the lord against the mightie . iudg. . . also because the men of iabesh gilead / came not up to the lord / to help their brethren against the wicked men of gibeah , all the men were destroyed and all the women that had lien by men iudg . no excuse whatsoever could serve : did god thus respect his worke and people then / as all must put to their helping hand / and none must withdrawe their shoulder least others were discouraged / & is there no regard to be had thereof now ? but any occasion / as feare of a little imprisonment / or the like may excuse any / both from the lords work / & the help of their brethren that for want of their society and comfort / are exceedingly weakened / if no overcome . if answer be made / they performe their duty in both / that they doe the lords worke the pastor feeding hys flock / and the people walking one towards another . i demaund / doth the lord require no more worke of them ? doth he not requyre that they should help to cast downe babell ? if reply be made they doe it by their bookes . i answere / that may be done / and their lights shine by their mouthes and conversations also among the wicked / which is the greatest meanes of converting them and destroying antichristes kingdome / they overcame ( not by flieing away ) by the blood of the lambe , and by the word of their testimonie and they loved not their lives unto the death . rev. . . gods people are the lights of the world / a citie set on a hil / a candle set on the candlestick / giving light to all that come in . mat. . and therefore must shine by their persons / more then by their ●ookes . and great help and encouragement would be to gods people in affliction of imprisonment and the like / to have their brethrēs presence / to administer to their soules or bodies / and for which cause / christ will say / i was in prison / and ye visited me / in distresse and ye comforted me / and vnto those that doe not so / according to their abilitie / goe ye cursed . mat. . if men had greater love to gods cōmaunds / or the salvation of thousand of ignorant soules in our nation / that for want of instruction perish / then to a little temporal affliction they would neither publish nor practise as they do in this thing . thus have i in short shewed you my poore abilitie in these things . and for all other things we hold / as the lawfulnes of magistracie gods blessed ordināce . of christ our saviour taking his flesh of the virgine mary / vy the wonderfull work of the holy ghost &c. you may see them in our confession in print published . yeres ago . i. many that he called annabaptists hold the contrarie / and many other strange things . c. wee cannot but lament for it / so did many in christ churches in the primitive times hold strange opinions / as some of the corinth● denyed the resurrection / and in many of the 〈◊〉 churches were greevous things / which the l. by his servants warned them of / vpon payn of his displeasure / & removing of his presence from them / neverthelesse others professing the same generall cause of christ / were cōmended . a. well / you will yet be called annabaptists because you deny baptisme to infants . c. so were christiās before vs called sects . and so they may iohn baptist . iesus christ / himself / and his apostles annabaptists / for we professe and practise no otherwise herein / 〈◊〉 they / namely / the baptising of such as confesse with the mouth the beleefe of the hart . and if they be anabaptists that deny baptisme / where god hath appointed it / they / and not we are annabaptists . but the lord give them repentance / that their sinnes may be put away / and never layd to their charge / even for his christes sake / amen . thus have wee in this dialogue according to our poore ability answered such objections / as hetherto in our poore and unworthy testimony have bene objected against any of vs concerning persecution for religion : as also with good consciences pointed at the principal things of mr robinsons late book till further time . finis . advice to freeholders and other electors of members to serve in parliament in relation to the penal laws and the tests : in a letter to a friend in the conntry [sic]. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) advice to freeholders and other electors of members to serve in parliament in relation to the penal laws and the tests : in a letter to a friend in the conntry [sic]. penn, william, - . p. printed, and sold, by andrew sowle ..., [london : ] caption title. imprint from colophon. attributed to william penn by wing. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion. dissenters, religious -- legal status, laws, etc. -- england. church and state -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion advice to freeholders and other electors of members to serve in parliament ▪ in relation to the penal laws and the tests . in a letter to a friend in the country . with allowance . sir . it having pleased the king , to emit a gracious declaration for liberty of conscience , and it being more than probable , that the matter thereof , may be the subject of the next parliament ; i do here present you ( my old friend ) with some of the motives , inclining me to exert my self to my ability , when called to it ( whatsoever opposition or censure , may therein attend me ) for the election of such members as may concur with his majesty , in giving sanction to this indulgence ( it being what we have long wanted , and wished for ) and in securing it to after ages , which is as undoubtedly the king 's royal purpose , as it is our common interest ; my reasons are . . that herein i shall be found to act in consistency with my constant principle , for i always esteemed it , to be a glorious work , to set conscience free from church-tyranny , and to extricate the nation from the intolerable burden of destructive penal laws . . that in the present undertaking ; i see my security , we have in this happy juncture , the advantage of promoting what we highly prize , and that with his majestie 's royal recommendation ; so we are safe ( whosoever snarles ) in conforming , to so great , so good , and so wise a resolution , as the king has propitiously taken . and moreover , . gratitude to his majesty for this declaration , and for his gracious proclamation of pardon of the th , of march , engages and spurs me ( as i hope it will do multitudes ) to promote with my utmost might , this present work , as it is a thing acceptable to the king. to add no more , these reasons are prevalent with me , and if they may dispose you to contribute to the making proper elections , so that his majestie 's gracious purpose , for the relief and tranquility of his people , may not be frustrated , by unreasonable malecontents , it will be most grateful to me ; for i know you to be very capable , of contributing significantly to this publick good. i perceive that some of your neighbours are beating their brains for arguments , to justify the upholding the persecuting laws , and the discriminating , and most unreasonable tests : with me it is out of question , that those men , are very narrow soul'd , and their maxims ill grounded ; pray therefore bear with me , that i present you with my thoughts , of the great point now agitated , liberty of conscience , or toleration . i am well satisfied , of the truth , and stability of the following positions , and he that is so , must cease to love persecution . . liberty of conscience is consonant to the gospel which no where countenances force and compulsion . . to grant this liberty , is the true interest both of prince and people , to evince the truth of these , let it be considered as to the first : that liberty of conscience is consonant to the gospel . it is a gospel of peace , and not of force and fury : if so , it is most unbeseeming this gospel , to do things rashly and violently , for its advancement , it is not to be so propagated : its language is , he that believes shall be saved . and our blessed lord , and his apostles ( who had the command of all power ) to bring men to this faith , used instruction , perswasion , and reasoning , but never went about to deal with mens consciences , by violence ; they used no sword but that of the spirit , and left every man to his own light. error , as well as truth , is seated in the mind of man , and we are without one instance since the creation , where compulsion ever wrought a change in any ones principles , tho it hath wrought on many , to deny or conceal their opinions . the soul of man is out of the reach of the magistrates sword , and therefore 't is as vain to pretend to direct what i shall believe , and to force in me a faith of any thing , as 't is to attempt to bring the angels under an outward secular power . compulsion undoubtedly will dispose a man to hate whatsoever is so proposed , and not better evinced . to proceed , . that liberty of conscience is the interest both of the king and his people , this is well proved , by the invincible reasons in his majesties gratious declaration , which are these . . the glory of the king. . the peoples peace . . union between the king and his people . . the unreasonableness of constraining conscience , and forceing people in matters of meer religion . . the mischiefs of compulsion by spoiling trade , depopulating countries , and discouraging strangers . and lastly , the ill success which force has had in religious matters , which shews the invincible difficulties which attend those methods . . the glory of the king. will any member of the church of england ( so fam'd for loyalty ) repine at his majesties being truly glorious ? surely no ; and hath not this his act of tenderness , added highly to his glory ? it undoubtedly hath : it secures not only common homage of obedience , and subjection to his majesty ; but with it , that more noble , of the hearts and affections , of a very great multitude of his people , who are sober , serious , industrious , and also wealthy ; these by persecution have been made heartless in themselves , and useless in a very great measure , to the king , and kingdom : i say this indulgence hath secured to the king the hearts of his dissenting subjects , who are brought to depend upon him , and they will love him , who favours and protects them , and hath put them into a posture , than which they can never hope for a better ; and seeing the church of england cannot but love him , and be loyal , he is without controversy become the most glorious , because the greatest , and most beloved prince , that ever yet swayed the english scepter . . the peoples peace . do not we know by sad experience , how greatly coercion in things relating to god and conscience , has disturbed the peace of mankind , and created terrible concussions in these kingdoms ? what lamentable divisions and animosities , have we beheld to spring from the execution of the penal laws , and how dismally sad have been their effects ? it is not reasonable to imagine that persecution should not disgust those who suffer ; and by-slanders ( tho otherwise perswaded as to religion ) are dissatisfied , to behold their peaceable honest dealing neighbours , torn to pieces for conscience sake , such are disposed to pity the sufferers , and to dislike the severities wherewith they are exercised . . union between the king and his people . it is most evident that the disaffection , which not long since had overspread our horizon , did spring from the severities of the laws , and of their execution . the happy union between prince and people has been ( if not broken ) to a very great degree weakened , by a mistaken maxim , that but one part of his majesties subjects ( and that a much lesser part , than some are willing they should be thought ) deserved to live , and to be protected : this too predominant opinion , did manifestly narrow the interest of the king , by confining it to one party ; but blessed be god , and the king , that we have out lived that fond conceit , and that we see , that liberty of conscience hath united the dissenters to his majesty , and that he becomes the common father of all his people . . the unreasonableness of constraining conscience , and forcing people in matters of meer religion . conscience is god's peculiar , and so out of man's jurisdiction : is it not then most unreasonable , to have it floating about at the will of humane powers , and to oblige christians to suffer or to fall in with all changes of religion ? it is unreasonable , because impossible , to compel a man to the belief of any thing , out of the compass of his knowledg ; our lord left neither precept nor president for such a practice : men under the gospel are first to be enlightned , and then to practice in conformity thereto : the way of dealing with men by violence , was in all ages unsuccessful , therefore 't is more than time to explode it ; & ad hominem , to give one irrefragible argument to our church of england ( which at this day , is , or would be the persecutor of her brethren ; ) is it not unreasonable , nay absur'd , that that church which in its doctrin allows judicium discretionis , a liberty of judging for our selves , and pretends not to infallibility ; should require me to change my opinion , and to be of hers , when i conceive my self to be in the right , and she hath no infallible assurance that she is not in the wrong ? . the mischiefs of compulsion , in spoiling trade , depopulating the country , and discouraging strangers , amongst the many mischievous events which we have seen , from the denyal of liberty of conscience , that upon trade is not the least , nor to be last mentioned : imposition in religion damps mens undertakings , and hath drove multitudes into forreign parts , and not a few to a retirement from their trades , and vocations , who would otherwise have been very useful to the common-wealth ▪ conscientious men have a very sow esteem of all things , compared with their religious liberty ; who will lay out his estate and trade freely , where the bare exercising his religion , gives vile informers a power to dispoil him of his substance ? toleration in the united netherlands , hath brought them from all parts of europe , a confluence of people , and by consequence of treasure , and trade ; wherefore their policy , has heretofore , as much approved our pressing a uniformity here , as they now seem disturbed at our liberty of conscience , it being that , which with so great advantage they have long monopolized . and lastly , the ill success which force in religious matters has always been attended with : compulsion never attained the intended end , it may , and hath too often made hypocrites , never sincere converts . the earnest desire of liberty when refused , creates discontents , which boile in the breasts of men , and have too often broken out , to the endangering governments ; for persons of differing sentiments in religion will unite in an opposition to the force about religious things , which renders every dissenting party uneasy , so that the danger seems to lye in persecution for conscience sake , and not in the having under one government several perswasions and parties in religion . i shall now proceed to the objections made against this liberty of conscience , and the repeal of the penal laws , by some very warm clergy men ( for the church is not a little divided in this point , and the best , possibly the greatest part thereof , will be found not to approve persecution . ) . they say , their opposition arises from a dread of popery . to answer these gentlemen , and dissipate their fears . . can the church of england ( circumstances considered ) possibly invent a better security than she hath by his majesties declaration ? that first of all declares , that the king will protect and maintain her , in the free exercise of her religion , as , by law established , and in the quiet and full enjoyment of all her possessions without any molestation or disturbance whatsoever . what would she further have ? will she call into question the sincerity of his majesties promise ? the king intends the concurrence of a parliament for the establishing the indulgence , and the abolishing the tests and penal laws : it will be then seasonable , for the church of england to ask her further security , if she will pretend to stand in need thereof . . let the church consider that the king only takes from her the power of doing mischief . she will not pretend to deny his majesty liberty of conscience ; if she doth not , can she expect by his permission and authority to cudgel her fellow subjects into a communion which he doth not approve , and that after he hath so solemnly declared his royal judgment to be against all persecution for conscience sake ? he intends not to deprive the church of england of such laws as are defensive of her religion and possessions , but only to abrogate such statutes , as the iniquity or short-sightedness of past ages hath armed her with to annoy and offend her neighbours ; laws wicked in themselves , and which she hath too long , very wickedly executed , and therefore very fit to be yielded up . the objectors fear of popery , by the repeal of the penal statutes , is not easily to be comprehended ; let the papists , with all other the kings subjects , be restored to what ought to be theirs , by the laws of god , and let them have their birth-rights , and we have them in the common interest of the nation . such who are in love with persecution , may not think to make the romanists uneasy , in the reign of the present king ; let us then weigh it , whether it be not the best discretion , to secure them of ease in the next reign . another objection brought for keeping up the penal laws is , that they for whom liberty is desired , are factious , and that it will strengthen those who have always been for a common-wealth . of what force this objection is , will be seen , if it be considered . that persecution foments faction , but liberty wins over the malecontent , if not , it lays him open , and will make every body ready to be his executioner . violence may have forced many to factious practises , who were not , nor would not chuse be factious , oppression making the wise man mad : give men security in their worshipping god , and you may soon distinguish between conscience and faction . it hath been well observed , that no government is endangered by the people it seeks to preserve : did not the church , by rigour and severity in time past , drive many dissenters from their native country , and force those who remained , to shelter themselves under the enemies of the crown ? i justify not the practice , nor can the fact be denyed : the king is at this day , by his transcendent grace & tenderness to consciences become master of the hearts , and by consequence of the lives and estates of his dissenting subjects . i shall in the next place take the liberty of offering some things to the consideration of all our country-men , both of such as are members of the church of england , and of dissenters . . the gentlemen of the established church may please to remember , that their church , when brought under , pleaded for liberty , and thankfully accepted it from the late usurpers ; surely then , they will , or ought to deport themselves decently in this juncture , to their lawful soveraign ( differing from them in religion ) and not censure , or repine at his resolution to make all his people easy , when that same clemency of the kings , secures them in their religion , with the comfortable addition of their large possessions . let them consider their antient loyalty ( interwoven with their religion ) and approve themselves ( against those , who begin to accuse them of turning upon the government ) what they have always boasted , unalterably loyal . shall the fanaticks with alacrity come into the king's interest , and will the church of england appear sullen , soure and averse thereto ? i am confident she will not : to clear up my meaning herein , let me tell you , i take not the clergy to constitute the church of england : no , not in conjunction with some cloudy , morose & ambitious great men , who seem at this day to abet their discontents , but the people who joyn in her communion , will be found to be the best , & by far the greatest part of that church . the ecclesiasticks and some of their designing adherents , are indeed angry , and why ? because his majesty resolves they shall not confound their neighbours : but did you ever observe a violent persecuting minister , to enjoy the hearts of the people who lent him their ears ? you may remember , that in our late highly contested elections of parliament men , we saw in many parts of the kingdom the rigid , siery parson abandoned his by flock , and galloping to give his single voice , which was all that he and his horse could bring in ; the parish certainly falling in with the side which he opposed , and why ? because detesting his spirit and principles , they could not be disposed to esteem him a good man for whom their minister voted . may this go for some sort of measure of the churches interest ? i think we cannot readily have a better , than that of the freedom of voting in elections , how miserably then will that interest be found to dwindle , when the clergy shall come stript of the advantage of compelling men into it , by making use of the kings name ( to that they were formerly owing their success where they found it , and not to the esteem they had with their own members . ) i have heard some compute , that not above one th or th . part of the known world is christian : it will be found that his majesties interest in his people , vastly excels that of the clergies , and that the church of england in the point now discussed , liberty of conscience , will not be found to comprehend such a part of the nation , as the christians make of the world. would our militant church-men but put on temper , and sequester so much time , as to weigh with calmness and deliberation , the opinions of the most eminent divines of their church , in the point of imposition , they would be found no friends to persecution . reverend dr. taylor , late bishop of downe , thus expressed himself for liberty of conscience , viz , i do earnestly contend , that another mans opinion shall be no rule to mine , and that my opinion shall be no snare or prejudice to my self . in another place that learned man proceeds thus ; it is a part of christian religion , that the liberty of mens consciences should be preserved in all things , where god hath not set a limit . and further — the same meekess and charity should be preserved in propagating christianity , which was in its first publication . the reverend and learned dr. stillingfleet did once apprehend the mischief of imposition , when he declared his opinion to be , that non-conformity to any suspected practise , required by any church governor , as the condition of her communion , was lawful , if the thing so required , was judged unwarrantable by a man 's own conscience . i have been told and doubt not the truth thereof , that a late reverend prelate , dr. brownrig ( who lived to see the restoration of his late majesty , and of the church of england secured , tho' not actually accomplished ) did upon his death-bed lament the imposing presecuting spirit , which he foresaw would return with the church : and i think i have good ground to say , that at a late conference between a bishop ( whose health is drank throughout the kingdom ) and some of his clergy of great note , a dignified doctor of eminent learning , and candor of spirit , did very freely declare , that he thought the church was under gods displeasure for her severity to dissenters , and that thereupon the bishop lamented that he ever had his hand in that work , and declared , that should he be restored to power , he would use it better than he had done : i wish all the clergymen then present and throughout the kingdom , were so resolved , and would shew themselves for peace , by throwing away their weapons of war. . i propose to the consideration of dissenters , and that of every denomination , that as when a town is on fire every man ( without any great regard to what intimacy or distance hath been amongst neighbours ) doth his best to extinguish the devouring flames , so that they would with unanimity joyn in this common cause , of removing , and that for ever , the undistinguishing instruments of mischief , the penal statutes : they do equally extend to all , and may by turns reach every dissenter . hath not the church of england persisted to exercise her severities upon all dissenters within her reach , even in the present reign ? are the roman catholicks ( tho sheltered by the kings religion ) willing to deliver other dissenters with themselves from those destroying laws , and to secure them , from what hath been of so terrifying an aspect in popery , persecution ? and will they refuse to be unshakled ? i cannot imagine they should , especially when i observe amongst them such a universal serenity since his majesties declaration . they owe their ease to the kings princely clemency , he invites them out of slavery ; if they will , their liberty may be established ; his majesty is resolved to do that which the church never would when she had power , nor can we think she would now , if it be true that she accosts the king with heat against it : let then all dissenters see their common interest , to approach the king with duty and affection , and to evidence their affection , by closing with the happy opportunity which now offers , of setting themselves free by law , seeing his majesty calls them to it : but , the fanaticks are told by church-men , that it is not now either seasonable or safe ( i doubt in their opinion it never will ) and they promise that they will do the work. affliction is the best school , and i do hope the fanaticks have learn'd therein better , than to be tampered withal , and decoy'd into an opposition to his majesties so gracious disposition : they know the king never broke his word , that the church hath , and that with them in this very point of indulgence . i appeal herein to the memories of some men of note now living , who were of so clear credit , and so great reputation in the house of commons ( tho dissenters ) that without their concurrence , an address had not been obtained for the recalling the late king's declaration of indulgence , which for the time made the kingdom happy ; it must be acknowledged by these honest well meaning gentlemen , that they were wheedled and cheated of that indulgence , by the fair promises and caeresses of some , who are now also living , and attempting to play that game over again : i conclude therefore , with difference to their qualities , that they are not to be again trusted . to provoke dissenters to avoid the rock , and gain a safe harbour , i shall remind them ( tho' i would not have it remembered for vengeance , but for prevention sake ) what and how they have suffered by the penal laws , which some so highly struggle to keep up . how many families have we seen ruined , by the vexation of citations , and what quickly followed , excommunications , in the courts ecclesiastick : the lawyers say that excommunication is a disability to sue for debts , and many honest men have found that wicked advantage made thereof ; i know the name of a clergy-man , who to supply his occasions , borrowed money of a neighbour , a dissenter , and to defraud him of the money ( instead of payment ) pleaded that his creditor stood excommunicate : a more severe step of those courts was , the burying the dissenter alive in a goal by a writ de excommunicato capiendo , from which there was no redemption , but at the price of his conscience . indeed where men had money , and would farm their liberty ( not of conscience but ) from prison , i have seen the tender hearted gentlemen of doctors commons ( since the death of his late majesty ) for fifteen or twenty pound paid , half yearly , to respit the claping up of an industrious man , and they have permitted him , till the next rent day , to work for his family . that the dissenters have been tenants to under sheriffs , clerks of the peace , town clerks , apparitors , bailiffs , &c. is too well known throughout the kingdom , the first came but twice a year , the others quarterly or monthly . if these devourers left any thing , the informer followed , and very often swept all , and sometimes stock'd a justices house or farm with beds , horses , cowes , or what else the gentleman wanted , and that at very reasonable rates . are there not also , to make the dissenter compleatly miserable , imprisoning , banishing , murdering laws ? to them , what can the invention of cruelty it self add ? have we not , with regret beheld the execution of these laws ? it may possibly be said that none have been hanged for nonconformity , if so , we may say , thanks to the kings mercy , for restraining the churches foolish rage , but 't is not a small number both of ministers and others , whose lives have been destroyed by lingering pining deaths in noisom goals and dungeons . nay the rigorous execution of these too rigid laws , did not suffice , we have known many informers swear by guess , and very fasly , and the perjured protected and rewarded , of which take an instance : an informer ( by trade a tinker ) having manifestly perjured himself in swearing against an honest gentleman upon the conventicle act , and being indicted for the perjury , the prosecutor was hurried by the procurement of the informers patron , into no less prison than the tower of london , and there closely detain'd : the villain was rewarded with a place worth twenty pound per annum , and still enjoys it . but why should i argue with dissenters from particular instances , to make them out of love with their shackles , when 't is evident the whole kingdom groans under , and would gladly throw off the burthen of these oppressive bloody laws . i shall therefore take my leave of the dissenters with the story of the jews in good nehemiah's time . he being informed of the very deplorable case , of those who were left of the captivity , made an address to the king , representing the sad state of jerusalem , and petitioned for leave to rebuild it : the king ( who was the great artaxerxes ) gave a gracious answer , and not only permitted it , but contributed to the work ; and nehemiah ( to the grief of courtiers ) went cheerfully about it . sanballat and tobiah , ( men of great power under the king ) appeared grieved that there was come a man to seek the welfare of israel ; however nehemiah invited the jews to build the wall , and they came unanimously and cheerfully into the work. sanballat and tobiah having drawn into their faction , geshem an arabian , laughed the jews to scorn , and termed the work rebellion against the king. nehemiah , knowing that god would prosper him , ( mangre opposition ) proceeded to build , and all the people assisted , but the nobles contributed not to the worke of the lord , but held correspondance with the enemy tobiah , and betrayed to him nehemiah's counsels . sanballat and tobiah , that they might obstruct the work , resolved to fight the jews : in this great distress god fought for them , and brought the enemies counsel to nought , and the jews made up the breaches in the wall : then sanballat and his confederates , betook themselves to flattery and dissimulation , and invited nehemiah again and again to a conference , but he declines the invitation , answering , that he was doing a great work , and would not leave it . thereupon sanballat ( still pretending friendship ) informed nehemiah by letter , that the heathen reported , and geshem said it , that he and the jews thought to rebel , and to make nehemiah king , and that this would be told the king , and therefore sanballat offered to counsel him how to obviate this heinous charge . but nehemiah ( seeing the snake in the grass ) refused to take counsel of him , and answered sanballat , that no such things were doing , and that he feigned the accusation out of his own heart : then these men of mischief , hire false prophets to prophesy nehemiah's death , in case he did not withdraw : this plot also failed ; nehemiah saying , should such a man as i flee : so persisting , the wall was finished , to the enemies confusion , who perceived at length , that the work was of god. i have made the history too long , the application shall be shorter . has god put it into the king's heart to pitty them , who are left of the captivity , such whom penal laws have not destroyed ? let us return due thanks to god and the king. are there sanballats , tobiah's , and geshem's , who vex themselves that there is come a man to seek the welfare of all his israel ? do they in confederacy with the arabians , and false prophets , and with tobiah's correspondents undermine and discourage the great work of delivering conscience from the pernicious penal laws ? let us with heart and hand unite therein , and not be seduced by flattery or threats , to leave this glorious work half done : do the heathen report , and gesham say , or doth false sanballat so pretend , that we are overturning the government , and introducing a common-wealth ? let us deport our selves with such duty and affection to the king , that his majesty , and his successors also , may tell sanballat , that no such things , as he suggested , were doing by the kings peaceable dissenting subjects , but that the accusation was a fiction of his own wicked brain ; and when this blessed work shall be finished , may the enemies thereof be cast down in their own eyes , perceiving that this work was wrought of our god ; i am , what i always was , and therefore most certainly , yours posts●●ipt . i would beseech the church of e●●land to yield to christ , his own throne in the kingdom of god , and to magistrates their thrones in the kingdoms of the world ; the whole inward man is under christ's power , and the whole outward man is under the magistrates ; if so , the inward and outward man being disposed of before , what room is there left for ecclesiastical power ? the clergy indeed have long pretended to lift up the magistrate to the throne of christ over conscience , not that they would have him sit there , but place them upon it , and we have seen the power ecclesiastick , interweaving it self with the power of princes , that their power which was not of god ; might be supported by the power which was of god : but it may be worth consideration whether they do not exalt themselves in christ's stead in the church , and set under their feet the magistrates power in the world ; and whether they are friends to magistracy , further than it is serviceable to their ends , who is it that discerns them not at this day , venting their discontents against the king in pamphlets and discourses , and in spreading very false news ( in which , with too great boldness they take their full swing ) and why ? because he will not do all that they would have him do , and restrains their power in religious things . and when they mind his majesty of the services they have done him , do they not do it , in such a manner , as hints what they can do against him , as well as for him , if he will not serve their designs ? but these gentlemen demand , would you have no laws : yes , but no other in god's kingdom , but his own laws , those only being proper , and adequate , and therefore a thousand times better than all the laws of men , which never acquired any other sort of proselytes , than such as the young man in the story in frithe's answer to the bishop of rochester ; which is this ; a young man having beheld his fathers martyrdom ; the officers ( laying hold of him , and of that opportunity to work his conversion ) examined him of his faith ; the youth dismay'd , and fearing his father's fate , answered , gentlemen , i believe even as it pleaseth you . our church hath of late years ( by breathing out threatnings , punishments , imprisonments , &c. ) made too many such converts . once more adieu . london , printed , and sold , by andrew sowle , at the crooked-billet in holloway-lane in shoreditch , and at the three keys , in nags head court , in grace-church-street , overagainst the conduit , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ their highness the prince & princess of orange's opinion about a general liberty of conscience, &c. being a collection of four select papers. correspondence. selections fagel, gaspar, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : , : ) their highness the prince & princess of orange's opinion about a general liberty of conscience, &c. being a collection of four select papers. correspondence. selections fagel, gaspar, - . stewart, james, sir, - . correspondence. selections. burnet, gilbert, - . [ ], p. printed and are to be sold by richard janeway, london : . reproduction of original in cambridge university library and huntington library. papers originally edited or translated by gilbert burnet. i. mijn heer fagel's first letter to mr. stewart -- ii. reflexions on monsieur fagel's letter -- iii. fagel's second letter to mr. stewart -- iv. some extracts, out of mr. stewart's letters, which were communicated to mijn heer fagel, together with some references to mr. stewart's printed letter. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based 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site . eng william -- iii, -- king of england, - . mary -- ii, -- queen of england, - . fagel, gaspar, - . liberty of conscience -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . church and state -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion their highness the prince & princess of orange's opinion about a general liberty of conscience , &c. being a collection of four select papers , viz. i. mijn heer fagel ' s first letter to mr. stewart . ii. reflexions on monsieur fagel's letter . iii. fagel's second letter to mr. stewart . iv. some extracts , out of mr. stewart's letters , which were communicated to mijn heer fagel . together with some references to mr. stewart's printed letter . london , printed , and are to be sold by richard janeway , in queens-head-alley in pater-noster-row . . a letter , writ by mijn heer fagel , pensioner of holland , to mr. james stewart , advocate ; giving an account of the prince and princess of orange's thoughts concerning the repeal of the test , and the penal laws . sir , i am extream sorry , that my ill health hath so long hindred me from answering those letters , in which you so earnestly desired to know of me , what their highnesses thoughts are , concerning the repeal of the penal laws , and more particularly of that concerning the test : i beg you to assure your self , that i will deal very plainly with you in this matter , and without reserve , since you say that your letters was writ by the king's knowledge and allowance . i must then first of all assure you very positively , that their highnesses have often declared , as they did more particularly to the marquis of albeville , his majesties envoy extraordinary to the states , that it is their opinion , that no christian ought to be persecuted for his conscience , or be ill used because he differs from the publick and and established religion : and therefore , they can consent , that the papists in england , scotland and ireland be suffered to continue in their religion , with as much liberty as is allowed them by the states in these provinces ; in which it cannot be denied , that they en●●y a full liberty of conscience . and as for the dissenters , their highnesses do not only consent , but do heartily approve of their having an entire liberty , for the full exercise of their religion , without any trouble or hindrance ; so that none may be able to give them the least disturbance upon that account . and their highnesses are very ready , in case his majesty shall think fit to desire it , to declare their willingness to concur in the settling , and confirming this liberty , and as far as it lies in them , they will protect and defend it , and according to the language of treaties , they will confirm it with their guarranty , of which you made mention in yours . and if his majesty shall think fit fuether to desire their concurrence in the repealing of the penal laws , they are ready to give it ; provided always that those laws remain still in their full vigour , by which the r. catholicks are shut out of both houses of parliament , and out of all publick employments , ecclesiastical , civil and military ; as likewise all those other laws , which confirm the protestant religion , and which secures it against all the attempts of the roman catholicks . but their highnesses cannot agree to the repeal of the test , or of those other penal laws last mentioned , that tend to the security of the protestant religion ; since the r. catholicks receive no other prejudice from these , than the being excluded from parliaments , or from publick employments . and that by them the protestant religion is covered from all the designs of the r. catholicks against it , or against the publick safety ; and neither the test nor these other laws can be said to carry in them any severity against the roman catholicks upon account of their consciences : they are only provisions qualifying men to be members of parliament , or to be capable of bearing office ; by which they must declare before god and men , that they are for the protestant religion . so that indeed , all this amounts to no more than a securing the protestant religion from any prejudices that it may receive from the r. catholicks . their highnesses have thought and do still think , that more than this ought not to be askt , or expected from them : since by this means , the r. catholicks and their posterity will be for ever secured from all trouble in their persons or estates , or in the exercise of their religion ; and that the roman catholicks ought to be satisfied with this , and not to disquiet the kingdom because they cannot be admitted to sit in parliament , or to be in employments ; or because those laws , in which the security of the protestant religion does chiefly consist , are not repealed , by which they may be put in a condition to overturn it . their highnesses do also believe , that the dissenters will be fully satisfied when they shall be for ever covered from all danger of being disturbed , or punished for the free exercise of their religion , upon any sort of pretence whatsoever . their highnesses having declared themselves so positively in these matters , it seems very plain to me , that they are far from being any hindrance to the freeing the dissenters from the severity of the penal laws ; since they are ready to use their utmost endeavours for the establishing of it ; nor do they at all press the denying to the roman catholicks the exercise of their religion , provided it be managed modestly , and without pomp or ostentation . as for my own part , i ever was and still am very much against all those , who would persecute any christian because he differs from the publick and established religion : and i hope by the grace of god to continue still in the same mind ; for since that light , with which religion illuminates our mind , is according to my sense of things , purely an effect of the mercy of god to us , we ought then , as i think , to render to god all possible thanks for his goodness to us : and to have pity for those who are still shut up in error , even as god has pitied us , and to put up most earnest prayers to god , for bringing those into the way of truth , who stray from it , and to use all gentle and friendly methods for reducing them to it . but i confess , i could never comprehend how any that profess themselves christians , and that may enjoy their religion freely and without any disturbance , can judge it lawful for them to go about to disturb the quiet of any kingdom or state , or to overturn constitutions , that so they themselves may be admitted to employments , and that those laws in which the security and quiet of the established religion consists , should be shaken . it is plain , that the reformed religion is by the grace of god and by the laws of the land , enacted by both king and parliament , the publick and established religion both in england , scotland and ireland and that it is provided by those laws , that none can be admitted either to a place in parliament , or to any publick employment except those that do openly declare , that they are of the protestant religion , and not roman catholicks ; and it is also provided by those laws , that the protestant religion shall be in all time coming secured from the designs of the roman catholicks against it ; in all which i do not see , that these laws contain any severity , either against the persons or estates of those who cannot take those tests , that are contrary to the roman catholick religion ; all the inconveniences that can redound to them from thence , is , that their persons , their estates , and even the exercise of their religion being assured to them , only they can have no share in the government , nor in offices of ●rust , as long as their consciences do not allow them to take these tests : and they are not suffered to do any thing that is to the prejudice of the reformed religion . since , as i have already told you , their highnesses are ready to concur with his majesty for the repeal of those penal laws , by which men are made liable to fines or other punishments . so i see there remains no difficulty concerning the repealing the penal laws , but only this , that some would have the roman catholicks , render'd capable of all publick trusts and employments , and that by consequence , all those should be repealed that have secured the protestane religion against the designs of the r. catholicks , where others at the same time are not less earnest to have those laws maintained in their full and due vigour ; and think , that the chief security of the established religion consists in the preserving of them sacred and unshaken . it is certain , that there is no kingdom , commonwealth , or any constituted body or assembly whatsoever , in which there are not laws made for the safety thereof ; and that provide against all attempts whatsoever , that disturb their peace , and that prescribe the conditions and qualities that they judge necessary for all that shall bear employments in that kingdom , state or corporation : and no man can pretend , that there is any injury done him , that he is not admitted to imployments when he doth not satisfie the conditions and qualities required . nor can it be denied , that there is a great difference to be observed in the conduct of those of the reformed religion , and of the roman catholicks towards one another : the roma catholicks not being satisfied to exclude the reformed from all places of profit or of trust , they do absolutely suppress the whole exercise of that religion , and severely persecute all that profess it ; and this they do in all those places where it is safe and without danger , to carry on that rigour . and i am sorry that we have at this present so many deplorable instances of this severity before our eyes , that is at the same time put in practice in so many different places . i would therefore gladly see one single good reason to move a protestant that fears god , and that is concerned for his religion , to consent to the repealing of those laws that have been enacted by the authority of king and parliament , which have no other tendency but to the security of the reformed religion , and to the restraining of the roman catholicks from a capacity of overturning it ; these laws inflict neither fines nor punishments , and do only exclude the roman catholicks from a share in the government , who by being in employments must needs study to increase their party , and to gain to it more credit and power , which by what we see every day , we must conclude , will be extreamly dangerous to the reformed religion , and must turn to its great prejudice : since in all places , those that are in publick employments , do naturally favour that religion of which they are , either more or less . and who would go about to perswade me or any man else to endeavour to move their highnesses , whom god hath honoured so far as to make them the protectors of his church , to approve of , or to consent to things so hurtful , both to the reformed religion and to the publick safety . nor can i , sir , with your good leave , in any way grant what you apprehend , that no prejudice will thereby redound to the reformed religion . i know it is commonly said the number of the roman catholicks in england and scotland is very inconsiderable ; and that they are possessed only of a very small number of the places of trust : tho even as to this , the case is quite different in ireland : yet this you must of necessity grant me , that if their numbers are small , then it is not reasonable that the publick peace should be disturbed on the account of so few persons , especially when so great a favour may be offered to them ; such as the free exercise of their religion would be : and if their numbers are greater , then there is so much the more reason to be affraid of them ; i do indeed believe that roman catholicks , as things at present stand , will not be very desirous to be in publick offices and imployments , nor that they will make any attempts upon the reformed religion , both because this contrary to law , and because of the great inconveniences that this may bring at some other time both on their persons , and their estates : yet if the restraints of the law were once taken off , you would see them brought into the government , and the chief offices and places of trust would be put in thnir hands ; no will it be easy to his majesty to resist them in this , how stedfast soever he may be ; for they will certainly press him hard in it , and they will represent this to the king , as a matter in which his conscience will be concerned ; and when they are possessed of the publick offices , what will be left for the protestants to do , who will find no more the support of the law , and can expect little encouragement from such magistrates ? and on the other hand , the advantages that the r. catholicks would find in being thus set loose from all restraints , are so plain , that it were a loss of time to go about the proving it . i neither can or will doubt of the sincerity of his majesties intentions , and that he has no other design before him in this matter , but that all his subjects may enjoy in all things the same rights and freedoms . but plain reason , as well as the experience of all ages , the present as well as the past shews , that it will be impossible for r. catholicks and protestants , when they are mixed together in places of trust and publick employments , to live together peaceably , or to maintain a good correspondence together . they will be certainly always jealous of one another ; for the principles and the maxims of both religions are so opposite to one another , that in my opinion i do not see how it will be in the power of any prince or king whatsoever , to keep down those suspitions and animosities , which will be apt to arise upon all occasions . as for that which you apprehend , that the dissenters shall not be delivered from the penal laws that are made against them , unless at the same time the test be likewise repealed : this will be indeed a great unhappiness to them ; but the roman catholicks are only to blame for it , who will rather be content that they and their posterity should lie still under the weight of the penal laws , and exposed to the hatred of the whole nation , than be still restrained from a capacity of attempting any thing against the peace and the security of the protestans religion , and be deprived of that small advantage ( if it is at all to be reckoned one ) of having a share in the government and publick employments ; since in all places of the world his has been always the priviledge of the religion that is established by law ; and indeed these attempts of the roman catholicks ought to be so much the more suspected and guarded against by protestants , in that they see that roman catholicks , even when liable to the severity of penal laws , do yet endeavour to perswade his majesty , to make the protestants , whether they will or not , dissolve that security which they have for their religion : and to clear a way for bringing in the roman catholicks to the government , and to publick employments : in which case there would remain no relief for them but what were to be expected from a roman catholick government . such then will be very unjust to their highnesses , who shall blame them for any inconveniency that may arise from thence ; since they have declared themselves so freely on this subject , and that so much to the advantage even of the roman catholicks . and since the settlement of matters sticks at this single point , that their highnesses cannot be brought to consent to things that are so contrary to laws already in being , and that are so dangerous and so hurtful to the protestant religion , as the admitting of roman catholicks to a share in the government , and to places of trust , and the repealing of those laws , that can have no other effect but the securing of the protestant religion from all the attempts of the roman catholicks against it would be . you write , that the roman catholicks in these provinces are not shut out from the employments and places of trust ; but in this you are much mistaken . for our laws are express , excluding them by name from all share in the government , and from all employments either of the policy or justice of our country . it is true , i do not know of any express law , that shuts them out of military employments ; that had indeed been hard , since in the first formation of our state they joyned with us in defending our publick liberty , and did us eminent service during the wars ; therefore they were not shut out from those military employments ; for the publick safety was no way endanger'd by this , both because their numbers that served in our troops were not great , and because the states could easily prevent any inconvenience that might arise out of that ; which could not have been done so easily , if the roman catholicks had been admitted to a share in the government , and in the policy or justice of our state i am very certain of this , of which i could give very good proofs , that there is nothing which their highnesses desire so much , as that his majesty may reign happily , and in an entire confidence with his subjects ; and that his subjects being perswaded of his majesties fatherly affection to them , may be ready to make him all the returns of duty that are in th●●● power . but their highnesses are convinced in their consciences , that both the protestant religion , and the safety of the nation , will be exposed to most certain dangers , if either the test , or those other penal laws , of which i have made frequent mention , should be repealed ; therefore they cannot consent to this , nor concur with his majesty's will ; for they believe , they should have much to answer for to god , if the consideration of any present advantages should carry them to consent and concur in things which they believe would be not only dangerous , but mischievous to the protestant religion . their highnesses have ever pay'd a most profound duty to his majesty whcih they will always continue to do ; for they consider themselves bound to it , both by the laws of god , and of nature : but since the matter that is now in hand , relates not to the making of new laws , but to the total repealing of those already made both by king and parliament : they do not see how it can be expected of them , that they should consent to such a repeal , to which they have so just an aversion , as being a thing that is contrary to the laws and customs of all christian states , whether protestants or papists , who receive ●one to a share in the government , or to publick employments , but those who profess the publick and established religion , and that take care to secure it against all attempts whatsoever . i do not think it necessary to demonstrate to you how much their highnesses are devoted to his majesty , of which they have given such real evidences as are beyond all verbal ones ; and they are resolved still to continue in the same duty and affection ; or rather to encrease it , if that is possible . i am , sir , yours , &c. novemb. . . amsterdam , printed in the year ● reflexions on monsieur fagel's letter . sir , i shall endeavour to answer yours as fully and briefly as possible . . you desire to know whether the letter i sent you be truly monsieur fagel's or not . . whether their highnesses gave him commission to write it . . how far the dissenters may relie on their highnesses word . . what effects it has on all sorts of people . sir , roman catholicks may be pardoned if they endeavour to make that letter pass for an imposture , it is their interest so to do , and they are seldom wanting to promote that , let the methods be never so indirect which they are forced to make use of : it does indeed spoil many hopeful projects of theirs . but how any protestant among us can really doubt the truth of it , is strange to me . some things carry their own evidence along with them : i take this letter to be one of that kind . i do not desire you to believe me upon my bare affirmation that i know it to be genuine , ( tho this be most true ) but shall offer my reasons to convince you that it cannot be otherways . first , the letter is like its author , the matter is weighty , the reasoning solid , the stile grave , full and clear , like that of a lawyer : it has an air all over , which as well shews the religion and temper of its writer , as the matter and method of it do his capacity and judgment . now all these qualities make up the character of monsieur fagel . secondly , there are the same grounds to believe this letter to be m. fagel's , as there are to believe any thing you have not seen , viz. the constant asseverations of persons of undoubted credit that come from holland , who all agree in it , and assure us of it . m. fagel own'd it to several english gentlemen , and many both here and in holland knew two months ago that such a letter was written ; a forgery would before this time have been detected , esecially such a one as ruines the designs of the triumphing party . thirdly , it was written by m. fagel in answer to letters from mr. stewart , sent by his majesties special orders , and mr. stewart hath both an english and latin copy sent him : therefore the english copy is not called a translation , but it is a sort of original ; for you are not to doubt but the matter was ordered so , that her royal highness might peruse it as well as his majesty . in the next place you would know whether their highnesses gave order to monsieur fagel to write it . i wish sir , you would take the pains to read the letter over again , and consider who this monsieur fagel is ; he is pensionary of holland , and first ministor of state , raised to that dignity by the prince's favour , he answers letters written to him , which are ordered by his majesty to be communicated to their highnesses . in his answer , he gives an aceount of their highnesses opinions about the repeal of the penal laws and test ; matters of a national concern , and of the greatest importance . now you must have a strange opinion of monsieur fagel , if you think him capable of so great an indiscretion ( or rather imposture ) as to write such a letter of his own head. the letter it self demonstrates , that whoever writ it is no fool , and the circumstances i have marked show that he is no knave . and indeed the substance of it is not new , it only repeats to his maiesty the same answer which the prince and princess had formerly given to his majesties envoy there . in short , you may leave the whole matter to this plain issue : if this letter be a false one it will be disown'd , if a true one it will be owned . their highnesses love not to do things that will not bear the light. it is evident , they did not intend the matter of it should be a secret , having told it to monsieur d'albeville , as often as he ( in his discreet way ) necessitated them to do it . but how it came to be printed , i cannot inform you justly ; however you shall have my conjecture . i remember as soon as it was noised about town , that mr. stewart had received a letter of such a nature from monsieur fagel , care was taken that the writer of the common news letters which are dispersed over the kingdom , should insert in them that their highnesses had declared , themselves for the repeal of the test . this pias fraus might , i suppose , give occasion to the printing of the letter , as the wisdom and policy of our states-men ( in putting mr. stewart on writing such letters ) had procured it : i say letters , for monsieur fagel had five or six on that subject before he answered , so unwilling were they in holland to return an answer , since they could not give one that was pleasing , or do any thing that look'd like meddling . the third thing you desired to be satisfied in , is , whether the dissenters may rely on their highnesses word . i am as apt to mistrust princes promises as you are . but shall now give you my reasons , why i think the dissenters may safely do it . and at the same time , because of the affinity of the matter , i will tell you why i think we may all rely on their highnesses for our civil liberties , as well as the dissenters may do for liberty of conscience . much of what i have to say is equally applicable to them both , yet because i know you have had an account of her royal highness , better than i can give you , i shall for the most part , speak only of the prince . my first reason is the certainest of all reasons , that it will be his highnesses interest to settle matters at home , which only can be done by a legal toleration or comprehension in matters of religion ; and by restoring the civil liberties of the nation , so much invaded of late . that this will be his interest is evident , if his designs lye abroad , as it 's certain they do . designs at home and abroad at the same time are so inconsistent , that we see his majesty , though raised above his fears at home by his late victory ; and invited abroad , by all that can excite his appetite for glory , cannot reconcile them : the truth is , one that would undertake it , is in the same condition with officers that beat their men , to make them fight , they have enemies before and behind . but you may happily object , that princes do not always follow their true interests , of which it is not difficult in this age to give several fatal instances . i answer , that it is to be presumed that princes , as well as other men , will follow their interests till the contrary appear ; and if they be of an age to have taken their fold , and have till such age kept firm to their interests , the presumption grows strong ; but if their inclinations , the maxims of their families , the impressions of their education , and all their other circumstances do side with their interest , and lead them the same way , it is hardly credible they should ever quit it . now this being the present case , we have all the certainty that can be had in such matters . the prince of orange has above these years given so great proofs of his firmness and resolution , as well as of his capacity and conduct in opposing the grand ravisher ( i may add the betrayers too ) of liberty and religion , that he is deservedly ( by all impartial men ) own'd to be the head of the protestant interest : a headship , which no princes but the kings of england should have , and none but they would be without it . now one may rationally conclude , that when the prince shall joyn to his present possession of this headship , a more natural title , by being in a greater capacity to act , he will not degrade himself , nor lay aside designs and interests which ought to be the glory of england , as they are indeed the glory of his family , acquired and derived to him by the blood of his ancestors , and carried on and maintained by himself with so much honour and reputation . i might add here , that the prince is a man of a sedate even temper , full of thoughts and reflection : one that precipitates neither in thinking , speaking , nor acting ; is cautious in resolving and promising , but firm to his resolutions and exact in observing his word : inform your self , and you 'll find this a part of his character , and conclude from hence what may be presumed from his inclinations . now as to the maxims of his family , let us compare them a little where it may be decently done . the french king broke his faith to his protestant subjects , upon this single point of vain glory , that he might shew the world he was greater than most of his predecessors , who though they had the same inclinations , were not potent enough to pursue them effectually , as he has done , to the everlasting infamy of his name and reign . the maxims of the french kings have been to outvie each other , in robbing their neighbours , and oppressing their subjects by perfidiousness and cruelty . but those of the family of orange on the contrary , have been to rescue europe from its oppressors , and maintain the protestant interest , by vertue , truth , honour and resolution ; knowing that such methods are as necessary to make protestant princes and states flourish , as vice and oppression are to maintain popish government . no popish prince in europe can pretend to have kept his word to his protestant subjects , as the princes of orange have always done to their popish subjects at orange , and elsewhere ; and the papists have often broke their word to that family , and have been , and are its declared enemies ; and though the princes two great grand-fathers , admiral coligni , and prince william , were assassinated by the authority , and with the approbation of that whole party , yet it cannot be made appear , that ever the princes of that family failed in keeping their word , even to such enemies , or used their own popish subjects the worse for it , in making distinction between them and their other subjects , or influenc'd the states to use theirs so : i say the states , who allow their r. c. subjects all the priviledges of their other subjects , only they are kept by a test from having any share in the government , which is truly a kindness done them , considering that ill-natured humour of destroying all those that differ from them , which is apt to break out when that religion is in power . now the church of england may justly expect all sort of protection and countenance from the successors , when it 's their turn to give it , they have a legal right to it , and impartial dissenters must acknowledge , that of late they have deserved it . but as for the protestant dissenters , i think no honest man amongst them will apprehend , that their highnesses who keep their word to their popish enemies , will break it to protestant subject , tho differing from the publick establishment . the next thing i am to make good , is , that his highnesses education must have infused such principles as side with his interest : there must be a fatal infection in the english crown , if matters miscarry in his highnesses hands , his veins are full of the best protestant blood in the world : the reformation in france grew up under the conduct and influence of coligni . prince william founded the government of the united netherlands on the basis of property and liberty of conscience . his highness was bred and lives in that state which subsists and flourishes by adhering steadily to the maxims of its founder . he himself , both in his publick and private concerns , as well in the government of his family , and of such principalities as belong to him , as in that of the army , and in the dispensing of that great power which the states have given him , has as great regard to justice , vertue and true religion , as may compleat the character of a prince , qualified to make those he governs happy . it does not indeed appear , that their highnesses have any share of that devouring zeal which hath so long set the world on fire , and tempted thinking men to have a notion of religion it self , like that we have of the ancient paradice , as if it had never been more than an intended blessing , but all who have the honour to know their highnesses and their inclinations in matters of religion , are fully satisfied they have a truly christian zeal , and as much as is consistent with knowledge and charity . as to his highnesses circumstances , they will be such when his stars make way for him , as may convince our scepticks , that certain persons , times and things , are prepared for one another . i know not why we may not hope , that as his predecessors broke the yoke of the house of austria from off the neck of europe ; the honour of breakin● that of the house of bourbon is reserved for him . i am confident the nation will heartily joyn with him in his just resentments . resentments which they have with so much impatience long'd to find , and have miss'd with the greatest indignation in the hearts of their monarchs . his highness has at present , a greater influence on the councils of the most part of the princes of christendom , than possibly any king of england ever had . and this acquired by the weight of his own personal merit , which will no doubt grow up to a glorious authority when it is cloath'd with soveraign power . may i here mention ( to ●ay the jealousies of the most unreasonable of your friends ) that his highness will have only a borrowed title , which he may suppose will make him more catious in having designs at home , and his wanting children ( to our great misfortune ) will make him less solicitous to have such designs . but after all , it must be acknowledged , that in matters of this nature , the premises may seem very strong , and yet the conclusion not follow . humane infirmities are great , temptations to arbitrariness are strong , and often both the spirit and flesh weak . such fatal mistakes have been made of late , that the successors themselves may justly pardon mens jealousies , a widow that has had a bad husband , will cry on her wedding-day , though she would be married with all her heart . but i am confident you will grant to me , that in the case of the present successors , the possibilities are as remote , and the jealousies as ill grounded , and that there is as much to ballance them , as ever there was to be found in the prospect of any successors to the crown of england . now may i add , to conclude the reasons that i have given you , why we may depend on their highnesses , that i know considerable men , who after great enquiry and observation , do hope that their highesses ( being every way so well qualified for such an end ) are predestinated ( if i may speak so ) to make us happy in putting an end to our differences , and in fixing the prerogative , and in recovering the glory of the nation , which is so much sunk , and which now ( when we were big with expectations ) we find sacrific'd to unhappy partialities in matters of religion . the last thing you desire to know , is , what effects this letter has had . but it is not yet old enough for me to judge of that , i can better tell you what effects it ought to have . i find the moderate wise men of all perswasions are much pleased with it . i know roman catholicks that wish to god matters were settled on the model given in it ; they see the great difficulty of getting the test repealed : and withal , they doubt whether it is their interest that it should be repealed or not : they fear needy violent men might get into employments who would put his majesty on doing things that might ruine them and their posterity . they are certainly in the right of it . it is good to provide for the worst . a revolution will come with a witness ; and it 's like it may come before the prince of wales be of age to manage an unruly spirit , that i fear will accompany it . humane nature can hardly digest what it is already necessitated to swallow , such provocations even alters mens judgments . i find that men who otherways hate severity , begin to be of opinion that queen elizabeths lenity to the r. c's proves now cruelty to the protestants . the whole body of protestants in the nation was lately afraid of a popish successor , and when they reflected on queen maries reign , thought we had already sufficient experience of the spirit of that religion ; and took self-preservation to be a good argument , for preventing a second tryal . but now a handful of roman catholicks , perhaps reflecting on queen elizabeths reign , are not it seems afraid of protestant successors . but if some protestants at that time from an aversion to the remedy , hoped that the disease was not so dangerous as it proves , i am confident at present , all protestants are agreed , that henceforward the nation must be saved , not by faith. and therefore i would advise the r. c's to consider that protestants are still men , that late experiences at home , and the cruelties of popish princes abroad , has given us a very terrible idea of their religion . that opportunity is precious and very slippery , and if they let the present occasion pass by , they can hardly ever hope that it will be possible for them to recover it . that their fathers and grandfathers would have thought themselves in heaven to have had such an offer as this is , in any of the four last reigns , and therefore , that they had better be contented with half a loaf , than no bread. i mean it will be their wisdom to embrace this golden occasion of putting themselves on a level with all other english-men ; at least as to their private capacity ; and to disarm once for all , the severity of those laws ; which if ever they should come to be in good earnest executed by a protestant suceessor , will make england too hot for them : and therefore i should particularly advise those among them , who have the honour to approach his majesty , to use their credit , to prevail with him to make this so necessary a step in favour of the nation ; since the successors have advanc'd two thirds of the way for effecting so good and pious a work . then , and not till then , the r. c's may think themselves secured , and his majesty may hope to be great by translating fear and anger from the breasts of his subjects , to the hearts of his own and the nations enemies . but if an evil genius ( which seems to have hovered over us now a long time ) will have it otherwise ; if i were a r. c. i would meddle no more , but live quiet at home , and caress my protestant neighbours ; and in so doing , i should think my self better secured against the resentments of the nation , than by all the forces , forts , leagues , garranties , and even men children that his majesty may hope to leave behind him . as for the protestant dissenters , i am confident the body of them will continue to behave themselves like men , who to their great honour have ever preferred the love of their country and religion to all dangers and favours whatsoever , but there are both weak and interested men among all great numbers ; i would have them consider how much the state of things is altred , upon the coming out of this letter , for if hitherto they have been too forward in giving ear to proposals on this mistake , that they could never have such a favourable juncture for getting the laws against them repealed ; i hope now they are undeceived , since the successors have pawn'd their faith and honour for it , which i take to be a better security ( as matters go at present ) than the so much talk'd of magna charta for liberty of conscience would be , though got in a legal way ; for our judges have declared , that princes can dispence with the obligation of laws , but they have not yet given their opinion , that they can dispence with the honour of their word ; nor have their highnesses any confessor to supply such an omission . however it is not to be charg'd on their highnesses , if such a magna charta be not at present given them , provided the test be let alone ; but i fear the roman catholicks zeal will have all or nothing ; and the test too must be repealed , by wheedling the dissenters to joyn with willing sheriffs in violating the rights of elections , which are the root of the liberties of england ; a prudent way of recommending their religion to all true english-men . but if any of the dissenters be so destitute of sense and honesty , as to prefer a magna charta , so obtained , void and null in it self , to their own honour and conscience , to the love and liberties of their countrey , to the present kindness of all good men , and their countenance at another time , and above all , to the favour and word of the successors , who have now so generously declared themselves for them ; we may pronounce , that they are men abandoned to a reprobate sense , who will justly deserve infamy , and the hatred of the nation at present , and its resentments hereafter . is it possible , that any dissenter , who either deserves or loves the reputation of an honest man , can be prevailed with by any pretences of insinuations how plausible soever , to make so odious and pernicious a bargain , as that of buying a precarious pretended liberty of conscience , at the price of the civil liberties of the country , and at the price of removing that which under god is the most effectual bar to keep us from the dominion of a religion , that wouldas soon as it could , force us to abandon our own , or reduce us to the miserable condition of those of our neighbours , who are glad to forsake all they have in the world , that they may have their souls and lives for prey . as for the church of england , their clergy have of late oppos'd themselves to popery , with so much learning , vigour , danger and success , that i think all honest dissenters will lay down their resentments against them , and look on that church , as the present bulwark and honour of the protestant religion . i wish those high men among them , who have so long appropriated to themselves , the name and authority of the church of england , and have been made instruments to bring about designs , of which their present behaviour convinces me , they were ignorant , as i suppose many of the dissenters are , whose turn it is now to be the tools . i say , i wish such men would consider , to what a pass they have brought matters by their violences , or rather the violences of these whose property they were , and at length be wise ; they cannot but be sensible of the advantages they receive by this letter . i suppose they apprehend ( i am sure they ought to do it ) that the ruine of their church is resolv'd on : but if the dissenters upon this letter withdraw themselves , the r. c's have neither hearts to keep firm to such a resolution , nor hands to execute it . since therefore , they themselves , have unhappily brought their church into such pre●pices by provoking the dissenters , it is in a particular manner their duty , as well as their laterest , to endeavour to soften them , by assisting the letter , and promoting the design of it . but if the old leaven still remain , they continue to argue as formerly , if the surplice be parted with , the church of england is lost ; if the penal laws be repealed , the test will follow : and comfort themselves with this most christian reflection , that the r. c. will not accept of what is offered them ; such men deserve all the misery that is preparing for them , and will perish without pity , and give thinking men occasion to remember the proverb , beat a fool ( or a zealot ) in a morter , yet his foolishness will not depart from him . but the dissenters ought not to be much concerned at this , they have their own bigots , and the church of england theirs ; there will be tools whilst there are workmen . this a time for wisdom to be justified of her children , when honest men ought to leave off minding the lesser interests of this or that particular church , and joyn in securing the common interest of the protestant religion . and to conclude , i would particularly beg of the dissenters to make use of their best judgment on this so critical an occasion , which they will do in my opinion , in keeping close to the contents of this letter , by endeavouring to obtain in a fair and legal way such a liberty to all perswasions , as is the natural right of freemen , and as our protestant successors declare themselves willing to joyn in ; and if those who have an equal , nay a greater interest than themselves , will not agree to such a liberty , because they will be masters or nothing ; the dissenters will have the comfort of having discharged their own consciences , as prudent men and good christians ought to do , and may safely trust god with the event . sir , i thought i had made an end , but looking your letter over again , i find i have forgot to answer a reason or two you give , why you doubt whether the letter be truly m. fagels : you are informed ( you say ) that such and such great men doubted of it ; but some might as well pretend to doubt of the truth of that letter , ( tho they knew it to be true ) as believe her majesty to be with child , almost before she knew it her self ; and that she was quick , when the embryo , as anatomists say , is not much above an inch long ; i don't think that popish successors , like certain weeds , grow faster than others : the persons you name may trim , and presume on their merit , least they might be thought capable of resentment . a dangerous reflection . i say their merit ; you have seen a long relation of the great services some ( when they were in power ) did their highnesses ; it is bound up with a relation of the true causes of their sufferings for their ( or rather their highnesses ) religion . you know even how one of them the last summer payed them his reverence with all the respect and humility of a due distance , and with the same caution with which the invincible monarch fights out of cannon shot . but , sir , though the character of a trimmer be ordinarily the character of a prudent man , there are times and seasons when it is not the character of an honest man. i acknowledge that since their highnesses marriage , nothing has hapned so much for the good of the protestant interest as this letter of m. fagels , and if i had been either the writer or adviser of it , i should be very proud of it , and think the nation much in my debt . but sir , that was not a very good reason to make you doubt of it ; for a good cause will have its time , tho not so often as a bad one , which hath ordinarily the majority on its side . i am confident at present we have all the reason in the world to expect it , for my own part , though i am neither young nor strong , i hope to live to see a day of jubilee in england for all that deserve it ; when honest men shall have the same pleasure in thinking on these times , that a woman happily delivered hath in reflecting on the pain and danger she was in . but knaves shall remember them , as i am told the damned do their sins , cursing both them and themselves . sir , i am yours . january , . a letter writ by mijn heer fagel , pensioner to the great and mighty lords , the states of holland and westfriesland . writ in french on the th of april , n. stile . to the marquiss of albeville , envoy extraordinary of his majesty of great britain , to the high and mighty the states general of the vnited provinces . to which is prefixt an account in dutch of the letter writ by mijn heer fagel , on the th of november , in the year . to mr. stewart , written by the said pensioner , and published by his order . printed at the hague by james scheltus , printer to the states of holland and westfriesland . translated out of the french and dutch into english . reader , i gaspar fagel , having the honour to serve the great and mighty states of holland and westfriesland , in the quality of their pensioner , cannot any longer delay the giving the publick this account , that in the month of july last . i was very earnestly desired by mr. james stewart advocate , to write to him what were the prince and princess of orange's thoughts concerning the repealing the test and the penal laws : but i was not easily brought to put pen to paper on this subject , because i knew that their highnesses thoughts did not agree with his majesties ; so that the writing in such matters was extream tender : therefore i delayed it till i was more earnestly pressed to it : and it was intimated to me , that those pressing desires were made by his majesties knowledge and allowance : at last i did according to the mind of their highnesses , draw the letter which i writ to mr. stewart on the th of november : i transmitted the draught of my letter to their highnesses , and received upon it their order to send it , after that their highnesses had read and examined the draught in dutch , together with the translation of it into english : upon all this i sent my letter to mr. stewart in the beginning of november ; and received an answer from him , by which he signified , that he had shewed my letter , both to the earl of melfort and to the earl of sunderland , and that it was also shewed to the king himself ; nor did he in the least intimate to me that it was desired that i should make any great secret of it ; or take care that it should not become publick : that letter , was afterwards about the middle of january , printed in england ; and upon its coming over into this country , it has occasioned a great deal of noise ; yet i have not hitherto concerned my self in all those discourses , or in all that has been writ and printed upon it , but have let all people reason or write concerning it as they pleased : but i have lately seen an english book , entitled , parliamentum pacificum , printed in london , in this present year , by vertue of a licence signed by the earl of sunderland ; in which that letter writ by me , is not only called a pretended piece , but it is said , that which i had set forth in my letter , concerning the prince and princesses thoughts , relating to the repeal of the test and the penal laws was advanced by me without the knowledge of their highnesses , at least of her royal highness : and by this the reader may be perhaps wrought on to believe either that my letter was a pretended piece , and forgery , or that i writ it without order from their highnesses ; since it may indeed seem scarce probable , that the author could have obtained a license for the printing of a paper that contains such falshoods in it , which the court and in particular the earl of sunderland could not but know to be such : for they know well both that the letter was writ by me , and that i was ordered to write it by their highnesses : therefore i could not delay any longer to undeceive the world. thus i am obliged to publish this account of the matter . i have still in my possession , those letters by which i was earnestly pressed to write the fore-mentioned letter , in which it is expresly said , that they were writ by his majesties knowledge and allowance : i have also that letter in which notice is given that my letter had come to hand , and that it was shewed not only to the earls of melf●rt and sunderland , but to his majesty himself , so that they know well that it is no pretended piece . i have also by me the letter , by which his highneses desired me to send ●●●●●ter to mr. stewart , together with the english translation of it : all which i will print , if i find it necessary . so that it is a gross abuse put on the world , to say that my letter is a forgery , since as it was truly writ by me , so it has been avowed by me ever since it first appeared : and it is a base calumny and slander , to say , that i writ that account of their highnesses thoughts concerning the repeal of the test and the penal laws without their knowledge : which appears so much the more evident , since it cannot be imagined , that their highnesses would not have expressed their just resentments , at so high and extravagant a presumption as i should have committed , if i had written any account of their thoughts , without their knowledg : all this has obliged me for my own vindication to write the following letter , to the marquess of albeville , his majesties envoy to the states : because i have had much discourse with him concerning the writing of that letter , long before this book called parliamentum pacificum was published : but i will not engage my self any further to examine the reasonings of the author of that phmphlet : for i know well , that in those matters the world is divided into very different sentiments , and that men are apt to approve or censure such things , according to their preconceived opinions : of all this i thought it necessary to advertise my reader , and to order this account of my letter to be printed by a known printer , from a copy signed by my hand . at the hague the th . of april , . gaspar fagel . a copy of the letter writ by mijn heer fagel , to the marquis of albeville , bearing date the th . of april , . sir , there has appeared here an english book , printed at london this year , entitled parliamentum pacificum with an im●rimatur before it signed by the earl of sunderland : ●f which i cannot but complain to you how averse soever i am 〈◊〉 things of that kind . it is affirmed in that book , that the letter which i writ to mr. stewart the th . of november last year , concerning the test and the penal laws is a pretended piece , or at least that i writ it without order ; and without the consent of their highnesses , and more particularly of her royal highness the princess of orange : i will not engage my self to examin and refute the particulars that are in that book , for that were as unsuteable to the character i bear , as it is to my own inclinations ; which do both concur in making it unfit for me to enter upon a publick dispute in things of this nature : but you cannot think it strange , if i desire you to call to mind , that it was not of my own head that i was engaged to write that letter which is now called in question : it was far from that . i was pressed by earnest and often repeated instances for the space of four months , that were made to me in his majesties name , to write upon that subject ; which at last prevailed with me ; yet i went about it with all the caution that a matter of such importance required ; and i took care not to write one single period in that whole letter , that i apprehended might give his majesty the least offence : yet after all i see this letter is treated as an imposture , in a book published by authority : tho both his majesty and the whole court know the truth of this matter ; which sir , i have in particular owned to your self , as being the kings minister here : as i have also owned it to all that have spoke to me upon the subject . but that which troubles more is , that i am accused for having made use of their highnesses name , and in particular of her royal highnesses without their order , as if i were capable of so infamous a forgery , and of an imposture so unworthy of any man of honour , and that chiefly in a matter of so great consequence . sir , you must not think it strange , if in this i appeal to your self , to that which you know , and which you have often owned to me your self : that their highnesses , and particularly her royal highness have often expre●sed to you their thoughts concerning the test and the penal laws , conform to that which i writ in their names : which you owned to me , that you had writ to the court of england , long before i writ that letter , and that therefore you could not imagin upon what reason the court could press me so much as they did to write to mr. stewart . i do assure you , i find my self very little concerned in what is said in this late book , or in any other of that kind : i foresaw well enough from the beginning that i should be attackt upon the account of my letter : in which it was indifferent to me what any man thought of it . but this book being published by the authoaity of a licence granted by the earl of sunderland , president of his majesties privy council and secretary of state , i find my honour is so touched in it , that i am obliged to undeceive the world , of the false accusation with which i am charged in it . and i thought sir , that i could not do this better , than by writing to you , that are his majestys minister , and who know perfectly the truth of the matter that is now called in question : and therefore i desire you will write concerning it , to the earl of sunderland : i believe he has not seen or at least that he has not considered the passages of that book that do concern me . for i am sure if he had done that , he would never have licensed it : for my lord sunderland knows , as well as any man alive does , that my letter to mr. stewart is no pretended piece : he himself saw the letter , or at least the english translation of it that i sent along with it : and he could not but know likewise , both by your letters , and by what you told by word of mouth , that their highnesses , and in particular her royal highness , have often owned to you , their sense of the test and the penal laws , conform to that which i writ in their name to mr. stewart . so i do persuade my self , that my lord sunderland will have the justice and goodness to recall this licence , which has been obtained of him by a surprise : and that the author of so manifest and so injurious a calumny , shall be punished as he deserveth . i will not likewise conceal from you , the design i have of publishing an account of all that has passed in this matter , as well as of this letter , which i take the liberty now to write to you , in which my design is not to enter into any dispute concerning the matter it self , much less to offend any person whatsoever , but only to cover my honour which is struck at by this attrocious calumny . i am sir your most humble and most obedient servant gaspar fagel . to all which this attestation of the printer is added . i the under subscribing james scheltus printer in ordinary to the great and mighty lords the states of holland and westfriesland , dwelling in the hague , do declare and attest by these presents , that the writing here published , together with the copy of the letter writ in french to the marquis of albeville , envoy extraordinary of his majesty of great brittain to the states , were delivered into my hands in order to their being printed , by mijn heer gasper fagel , pesioner to the above named lords and states of holland and westfriesland , and that i have printed them by his express order . at the hague the th of april . j. scheltus . some extracts , out of mr. james stewart's letters , which were communicated to mijn heer fagel , the states pensionary of the province of holland . together with some references to mr. stewart's printed letter . mr. stewart staid about seven months , after he had received the pensionary's letter , before he thought fit to write any answer to it : and then instead of sending one in writing to the pensioner , or in a language understood by him , he has thought fit , by a civility peculiar to himself , to print an answer in english , and to send it abroad into the world , before the pensioner had so much as seen it . the many and great affairs that press had upon that eminent minister , together with a sad want of health , by which he has been long afflicted , have made that he had not the leisure to procure mr. stewart's letter to be translated to him , and to compare the matters of fact related to in it , with the letters that were writ the last year by mr. stwatr , which are in his possession ; nor did he think it necessary , to make too much haste : and therefore if he has let as many weeks pass , without ordering an answer to be prepared , as the other had done months , he thought that even this slowness , might look like one that despised this indecent attempt upon his honour , that mr. stewart has made in giving so unjust a representation of the matter of fact. he hopes he is too well known to the world , to apprehend that any persons would entertain the hard thoughts of him , which mr. stewart's late print may have offered to them ; and therefore he has proceeded in this matter , with the slowness that he thought became his integrity , since a greater haste might have look'd like one that was uneasy , because he knew himself to be in fault . as for the reasoning part of mr. stewart's paper , he has already expressed himself in his letter to mr. d' albeville , that he will not enter into any arguing upon those points , but will leave the matter to the judgement of every reader ; therefore he has given order only to examine those matters of fact , that are set forth in the beginning of mr. stewart's letters , that that so the world may have a true account of the motives that induced him to write his letter to mr. stewart , from the words of mr. stewart's own letters : and then he will leave it to the judgment of every reader , whether mr. stewart has given the matter of fact fairly or not . it is true , the pensioner has not thought fit to print all mr. stewart's letters , at their full length ; there are many particulars in them for which he is not willing to expose him : and in this he has shewed a greater regard to mr. stewart , than the usage that he has met with from him deserves : if mr. stewart has kept copies of his own letters , he must see that the pensioners reservedness is rather grounded on what he thought became himself , than on what mr. stewart has deserved of him . but if mr. stewart , or any in his name , will take advantages from this , that the letters themselves are not published , and that here there are only extracts of them offered to the world , then the pensioner will be excused , if he prints them all to a tittle : the truth is , it is scarce conceivable how mr. stewart could assume the confidence that appears in his printed letter , if he have kept copies of the letters that he writ last-year : and if he engaged himself in affairs of such importance without keeping . copies of what he writ , it was somewhat extraordinary : and yet this censure is that which falls the softest on him : but i will avoid every thing that looks like a sharpness of expression ; for the pensioner expects , that he who is to give this account to the english nation , should rather consider the dignity of the post in which he is , than the advantages that mr. stewart may have given for replying sharply on him . and in this whole matter the pensioner's chief concern is , to offer to the world such a relation of the occasions that drew his letter to mr. stewart from him , as may justify him against the false insinuations that are given : he owed this likewise as an expression of his respect and duty to their highnesses , in whose name he wrote his letter , and at whom all those false representations are levelled , though they fall first and immediately upon himself . the sum of the matter of fact , as it is represented by mr. stewart , amounts to this , that he was so surprised to see in january last , the pensioner's letter to him in print , that he was inclined to disbelieve his own eyes , considering the remoteness of the occasion that was given for that letter : that he had never writ to the pensioner , but was expresly cautioned against it : but that seeing the sincerity of the king's intentions , he was desirous to contribute his small endeavours for the advancing so good a work , and for that end he obtained leave to write to a private friend , who , he judged might have opportunity to represent any thing he could say to the best advantage : but that of the letters which he writ to his friend , there were only two intended for communication , in which he studied to evince the equity and expediency , of repealing the tests and the penal laws : and that with a peculiar regard , to the prince and princess orange's interest ; and he desired that this might be imparted to friends , but chiefly to those at the hague . and that this was the substance of all that he writ on that occasion . but finding that the prince had already declared himself in those matters , he resolved to insist no further : yet his f●ind insinuating , that he had still hopes to get a more distinct and satisfying answer , from a better hand , tho without naming the person , he attended the issue ; and about the beginning of november , almost three months after his first writing , he received the pensioners letter , though he had not writ to him ( which is repeated again and again ) and in it an account of the prince and princess of orange's thoughts about the repeal of the tests and penal laws ( which he had not desired ) upon which he took some care to prevent the publishing of it : put when he saw it in print , he clearly perceived that it was printed in holland ; and so wonders how the pensioner could say , that it was printed in england , which he found in his printed letter to mr. d' albeville ; he knows not upon what provocation the pensioner writ that letter ; but in it he finds that he writ , that he was desired by himself to give him an account of the prince and princess of orange ' s thoughts , and that these pressing desires were made to him by his majesties knowledge and allowance ; this being so different from the letters he had writ , of which he is sure that the account he has given is true in every point , he was forced to vindicate the the king's honour and his own duty . he writ not out of any curiosity to know their highnesses though 's , which were already known , they having been signified to the marquis of albeville , and therefore he had no orders from the king for writing on that subject , but only a permission to use his little endeavours for the advancing of his service ; but it was never moved to him to write , either in the king's name or in the name of any of his secretaries . this is mr. stewart's account in the first nince pages of his letter , and is set down in his own words . now in opposition to all this , it will appear from the following extracts , that mr. stewart writ to his friend , as the most proper interpreter for addressing himself to the pensioner ; that he repeated his proposition frequently , finding his friend unwilling to engage in so critical a matter . he gives great ●●surances of his majesty's resolutions never to al●●r the succession ( which is plainly the language of a treaty ) he presses over and over again to know the prince's mind , whose concurrence in the matter would be the best guarentee of the●●iberty . he by name desires his letters may be shewed to the prince and princess of orange ( though he says , he only ●rder●d ●hem to be shewed to friends at the hague : so it seems he has the modesty to reckon them among the number of his friends ; but it is a question whether their highnesses do so or not . ) he says in one leteer , that what he writ was from his majesty himself , and enlarges more fully on this in two other letters ; and he desires , that the prince's answers , with his reasons , might be understood ; which very probably gave the occasion to all the reasoning part of the pensioner's letter . and it appears by that letter , that the return to all this was expected by the king , and in almost every letter he presses for a return . and in conclusion , upon his receiving the pensioner's letter , he expresses likewise a great sense of the honour done him in it ; that he had so far complied with his insignificant endeavours , he mentions his acquainting both the king and the earls of sunderland and melfort with it ; and in another letter , after new thanks for the pensioner's letter , he laments that it was so long delay'd . but all these things will appear more evident to the reader from the passages drawn out of mr. stewart's own letters , which follow . mr. stewart seems not to know upon what provocation the pensioner writ to mr. d' albeville , and yet the ponsioner had set that forth in the letter it self ; for the pamphlet entituled parliamentum pacificum , that was licensed by the earl of sunderland , contained such reflections on his letter to mr. stewart , either as a forgery , or as a thing done without the princess of orange ' s knowledge , that the pensioner judged himself bound in honour to do himself right . as for mr. stewart's criticalness , in knowing that the pensioner's letter was first printed in holland , and his reflection on the pensioner for insinuating that the letter was first printed in england ; it is very like that mr. stewart , after so long a practise in libels , knows how to distinguish between the prints of the several nations better than the pensioner , whose course of life has raised him above all such practices . but it is certain , that wheresoever it was first printed , the pensioner writ sincerely , and believed really it was first printed in england . this is all that seemed necessary to be said for an introduction to the following extracts . july . . and i assure you by all i can find here , the establishment of this equal liberty is his majesty's utmost design — i wish your people at the hague do not mistake too far both his majesty and the dissenters ; for as i have already told you his majesty's utmost design , and have ground to believe , that his majesty will preserve and observe the true right of succession , as a thing most sacred ; so i must entreat you to remark , that the offence that some of the church of england men take at addressing , seems to me unaccountable , and is apprehended by the dissenters to proceed so certainly from their former and wonted spirit , that they begin to think themselves in large more hazard from the church of england's re-exaltation than all the papists their advantages . and next , that the prince is thought to be abused by some there to a too great mislike of that which can never wrong him , but will in probability in the event be wholly in his own power — i hope you will consider and make your best use of these things — i expect an account of this per first , i mean , an answer to this letter , and pray improve it to the best advantage . the second letter , without a date . that it is a thing most certain , that his majesty is resolved to observe the succession to the crown as a thing most sacred , and is far from all thoughts of altering the same ; and that his majesty is very desirous to have the prince and princess of orange to consent to and concur with him in establishing this liberty — so that upon the whole it may be feared , that if the prince continue obstinate in refusing his majesty , he may fall under suspicions of the greatest part of england and of all scotland , to be too great a favourer of the church of england , and consequently a person whom they have reason to dread — and many think that this compliance in the prince , might be further a wise part , both as to the conciliating of his majesty's greater favour , and the begetting of an understanding betwixt the king and the states ; and the parliament will consent to the liberty so much the rather , that they have a protestant successor in prospect — i cannot on these things make any conclusion , but simply leave them to your reflection , and the best use you please to make of them — i will expect your answer per first . vvindsor , july . . . the hints that i gave you in my two former letters i shall now explain more fully in this — and therefore i heartily wish , that the prince and princess may understand all that you think needful on this subject . it troubles his majesty to find them so averse from approving this liebrty , and concurring for its establishment — so that in truth i cannot see why their highnesses should not embrace cheerfully so fair an opportunity to gratify both his majesty and the far greater and better part of the nation — now upon the whole ; i expect that you will make all i have written fully known at the hague , especially with the prince — but the main thing i expect from you , is to have your mind , whether or not his highness may be so disposed , as that a well chosen informer sent to himself might perfect the work. and this answer i will expect per first ; where ever the prince be , you know who are to be spoken and how — i again entreat your care and dispatch in this , with your return . london , july . . mine of the july , with my last of the th july , v. st. will i am sure satisfy you fully ; for therein i have indeed answered all can be objected , and have given you such an account of the confirmation of all i have writ from his majesty himself , that i must think it a fatality if your people remain obstinate . — and i again assure you , if your people be obstinate , it will be fatal to the poor dissenters , and i fear productive of ills yet unheard of ; and therefore pray consider my letters , and let me know if there be any place to receive information by a good hand — but however , let us endeavour good all we can , and i assure you i have my warrant . — haste your answer . windsor , aug. . . and in a word , believe me , if the prince will do what is desired , it is the best service to the protestants , the highest obligation on his majesty , and the greatest advancement of his own interest that he can think on ; but if not , then all is contrary — but pray haste an answer . windsor , aug. . . i have yours of the . instant , long looked for ; you remark , that you have received mine of the of july , but say nothing of that of the . which was my fullest , and which i assure you was writ , not only with permission , but according to his majesties mind sufficiently expressed ; our religion ought certainly to be dearer to us than all earthly concerns . it is very true what you say , that mistakes about its concerns ( especially in such a time ) may be of the greatest importance , which no doubt should perswade to a very scrupulous caution : but yet i am satisfied , that the simple representing of what was wrote to you ( which was all i required ) was no such difficult task — but to be plain with you , as my friend , your return was not only long delayed , but i observe such a coldness in it , different from the strain of your former , that i think i mistake not when i understand by your letter more than you express — i wish the p. may see or hear this from end to end . london , aug. . . i have yours of the th instant ; when i said your last was more cool , i meant not as your affection , but as to your diligence in that affair — for i am perswaded , that the establishing of this liberty by law , is not only the interest of protestant dissenters above all others , but that his highness s consenting to it , would be its secure guarantee both against changes and abuses — as you love the quiet of good men and me , leave off complements and ceremonies , and discourse his highness of all i have written — i am now hastening to scotland — but may return shortly ; for the kings is most desirous to gain the prince and he will be undoubtedly the best guarantee to us of this liberty , and also to hinder all your fears about popery . newwark , aug. . . but now i must tell you , that though — i know — to be my very good friend , yet he hath not answered my expectation ; for you see that to seven of mine , he gave me not one word of answer ; although i told him , that the substance of them was writ by the king's allowance , and a return expected by him — besides , the answers he makes are either generals or complements , whereas my desire was , that the prince should know things , and that his answer with his reasons might be understood , — but my friend has delayed and scruffed things . from scotland , septemb. . . i have yours of the th of aug. but have delayed so long to answer , because i had written other letters to you whereof i yet expect the return — my most humble duty to my friend at the hague . edinburg , octob. . . as for that more important affair , wherewith i have long troubled you , i need add no more ; my conscience bears me witness , i have dealt sincerely for the freedom of the gospel — i had certainly long e're now written to the pensioner fagel , were it not that i judged you were a better interpreter of any thing i could say : i know his real concern for the protestant religion ; and shall never forget his undeserved respect to me ; but alas ! that providences should be so ill understood . london , novemb. . . i have yours of the st of november — the enclosed from the l. pensionary surprize me with a testimony of his favour and friendship , and also of his sincere love to the truth , and fair and candid reasoning upon the present subject of liberty , beyond what i can express ; he hath seriously done too much for me ; but the more be hath done in complience with my insignificant endeavours , the more i judge and esteem his noble and zealous concern for religion and peace , which i am certain could only in this matter be his just motive : i hope you will testify to him my deep sense of his favour and most serious profession of duty with all diligence , until i be in 〈◊〉 to make his l. a direct return . i showed the letter to my l●rd melfort , who was satisfied with it . london , novemb. . . which it seems is by a mistake of the date . i have your last , but have been so harassed and toiled , that i have not had time to write to you , much less to my l. pensionary ; yet since my last , i acquainted the earl of sunderland with his answer , as the king ordered me ; but i see all hope from your side is given quite over , and men are become as cold in it here as you are positive there . london , novemb. . . by my last of the th . instant , i gave you notice of the receipt of my lord pensionary ' s letter , and what was and is my sence of his extraordinary kindness and concern in that affair . since that time i have had the oppertunity to shew them to the king , and at his command did read to him distinctly out of the english copy all the account given of her highnesses mind touching the penal statutes and the test ; and withall , signified the sum of what was subjoyned , especially the respect and difference therein expressed to his majesty ' s person and government ; but to my own regret , i find that this answer hath been too long delayed , and that now the king is quite over that matter , being no ways-satisfied with the distinction made of the tests from the penal laws ; and no less positive , that his highness is neither to be prevailed upon , nor so much as to be further treated with in this matter . the conclusion . and thus all that relates to the occasion that drew the pensioners letter from him , appears in its true light . if this discovery is uneasie to mr. stewart , he has none to blame for it but himself . it is very likely the first article of his merit , for the defacing of all that was past , was the pains he took to work on their highnesses , by the pensioners means : but that having failed him , the abusive letter that he has published upon it may come in for a second article : and now the reproaches to which this discovery must needs expose him , must compleat his merit . if upon all this he is not highly rewarded , he has ill luck , and small encouragement will be given to others to serve the court as he has done . but if he has great rewards , it must be acknowledged that he has paid dear for them ; the printing and distributing copies of his letter , is only the publishing his shame to persons , though it is to be doubted if so many could be found in the nation who would give themselves the trouble to read so ill a paper . finis . the humble request of certain christians reproachfully called anabaptists who onely desire to owne, imbrace, professe and maintain the pure truths of god in the hatred of all errours, as namely universall redemption, ... nutt, thomas, th cent. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing n thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) the humble request of certain christians reproachfully called anabaptists who onely desire to owne, imbrace, professe and maintain the pure truths of god in the hatred of all errours, as namely universall redemption, ... nutt, thomas, th cent. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] author's name mentioned in final line of text. title from first lines of text. imprint from wing. the anabaptists' request thay they may be allowed to publicly justify their belief. annotation on thomason copy: "thom nutt put: cariar of norwich"; "london th septemb .". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng anabaptists -- england -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no the humble request of certain christians reproachfully called anabaptists, who onely desire to owne, imbrace, professe and maintain the pure nutt, thomas a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - pip willcox sampled and proofread - pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the humble request of certain christians reproachfully called anabaptists , who onely desire to owne , imbrace , professe and maintain the pure truths of god in the hatred of all errours , as namely universall redemption , free-will and falling away , with all other things contrary to wholsome doctrine , who are accused as factious movers of sedition and rebellion , and the cause of these unnaturall warres , and of the difference betwixt his majesty and the parliament , that seeing such a common defamation is raised upon them , by reason that perhaps some professing and owning some truths of god in outward profession which they hold , being hypocrites , do walk very scandalously in the broaching and practising of damnable errours and heresies , even denying the lord that visibly seemed to have bought them , and bring upon themselves swift damnation , and many follow their pernicious wayes , by reason of whom the wayes of truth are evill spoken of , pet. . . . and indeed now this scripture is fulfilled , whereby we , according to that which our saviour lord and master said , do undergo the hatred , revilings , and all manner of evill speakings of many , which although it be a signe to us of our blessednesse , matth. . . inasmuch as they speak it of us falsly for his name sake , yet considering he saith , that they that kill us will think they do god service , although indeed he saith withall , it is because they have not known the father nor himselfe , john . . . . and seeing he hath a time to reveale himselfe to his own , and hath promised that the knowledge of god shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea , esa. . . and that all shall know him from the least to the greatest , jer. . . mark , it seems knowledge shall begin at the least . and whereas we now see god stirring up the magistrates to take part with his poore despised saints against their antichristian great opposers , wherein he hath made them his sword to lop off the heads of them already , which we acknowledge with all thankfulnesse , first to god , and secondly to them , and are further incouraged to intreat them as they are just and godly , for gods sake to heare our cause , and do us justice , that if god be god , we may follow him altogether , then will wrath and stripes flee away , and peace , plenty and prosperity with true joy and gladnesse will come in the roome thereof : for when our wayes please the lord , he will make our enemies at peace with us , prov. . . we therfore desire all that feare god , that they that are the most affectionate christians would get the hands of all in their parish that feare god , who may be many more then they expect , for there were seven thousand that had not bowed to baal , king. . . when eliah thought he had beene left alone : therefore go to all in your parishes , and desire their hands to so reasonable a request as this , namely , that inasmuch as there are such accusations against us as aforesaid , that the parliament would be favourably pleased for the glory of god and the clearing of his truths , and the farther shining forth of jesus christ in his glorious gospell to his people , to call us before them , and also of the doctors of the synod as many as they please , and proclaime that all the accusers of what we hold contrary to the truth of god , may here accuse us ; and if those doctors can prove their ministery , baptisme or sabboth to be commanded of god , or owned by christ , or any thing we hold to be contrary to godlinesse , then we will thankfully be reduced to the truth , and repent and revoke our errour , and suffer for our presumption , but if it shall be made evident , that neither their ministery , baptisme nor sabboth be commanded of god , although it be a light but very new sprung forth to bring us out of ignorance , whereout when it pleased not god to give us the means to see and come forth , the time of that ignorance god regarded not , but now will command all his people every where to repent , and walk after the light , and give them repentance for his glory , and their eternall comfort . even so come lord jesus . thus intreating all that feare god , as they pitty poore soules , that desire to be reduced from all errours to all truths , and be confirmed and setled therein , to get in their severall parishes as man y hands as they can to a petition to the parliament for this so reasonable a desire , the which petition you shall have at m. barbers in thredneedle-street at the horse-shoe , from thomas nutt , one for every parish . the reasonableness of toleration, and the unreasonableness of penal laws and tests wherein is prov'd by scripture, reason and antiquity, that liberty of conscience is the undoubted right of every man, and tends to the flourishing of kingdoms and commonwealths, and that persecution for meer religion is unwarrantable, unjust, and destructive to humane society, with examples of both kinds. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the reasonableness of toleration, and the unreasonableness of penal laws and tests wherein is prov'd by scripture, reason and antiquity, that liberty of conscience is the undoubted right of every man, and tends to the flourishing of kingdoms and commonwealths, and that persecution for meer religion is unwarrantable, unjust, and destructive to humane society, with examples of both kinds. penn, william, - . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed for john harris ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion. liberty of conscience. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the reasonableness , of toleration , and the unreasonableness of penal laws and tests . wherein is prov'd by scripture , reason and antiquity , that liberty of conscience is the undoubted right of every man , and tends to the flourishing of kingdoms and commonwealths ; and that persecution for meer religion is unwarrantable , unjust , and destructive to humane society . with examples of both kinds . offer'd to the consideration of a person of honour . london : printed for john harris at the harrow against the church in the poultrey , . the reasonableness of toleration , and the unreasonableness of penal laws and tests , &c. it has been for many hundreds of years the main scope and aim of the clergy in most opinions , to grasp into their clutches the exercise of temporal jurisdiction ; & as in former times , so now of late our church of england men , have not been the least ambitious of that authority : 't is true , the clergy of england could never fix such jurisdiction in themselves : but what they could not perform by their spiritual authority , they brought to pass by the assistance of the civil power . they found that the scripture , had not given them the least title to lord it over the consciences of men in matters of religion , nor had left them any weapons to combat dissenters in opinion , nay even error it self , onely christian admonition ; and at last , when that would not prevail , publick separation from communion with such as obstinately persisted in defyance of the truth . for this reason they never ceased to amuse and alarm the civil magistrate with continual suspitions and fears , to render him jealous of all other men that were not conformable to their humours and ceremonies . a passionate conceit of their own perfection above others , which no man of common sence can be reconciled to , and a convincing argument that those persons must have but little or no conscience themselves , who with so much vigor and obstinacy labour to uphold a civil persecution so directly opposite to all the dictates of scripture , reason , and conscience . as for scripture , the authority of it is so evident to the contrary that nothing can be more , where it instructs the servants of god , to be gentle to all men , sorbids christians to judge one another , and tells us , that every man is to stand or fall to his own master ; that one man esteems one day above another , and another esteems all days alike ; yet happy is he who condemns not himselfe in that which he allows : that is to say , whose conscience does not inwardly accuse his outward profession : the same great and zealous preacher of the gospel , in the case of the unbelieving wise and husband gives such a mild and condescending answer , as if he had taken his pen from a doves wing ; let neither her nor him that unbelieves depart , if pleased to stay ; for that god had called us to peace ; adding withal , that as god has called every one , so let him walk ; and so he ordained to all the churches : certainly there could be nothing more divinely uttered to oblige the professors of christianity , in charity and meekness to forbear one another , then such an express injunction of so authentick an apostle , to live peaceably with an infidel . nay , writing to the christians , he absolutely denyes that even the apostles themselves , have any soveraignty over the conscience , but only commissions to aid and assist their consciences : not ( says he ) that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy : altogether conformable to that doctrine of meekness wherein christ instructs his disciples , not to aspire to the title of rabbi , or master , in spiritual affairs : besides that we are admonished to let the tares grow among the wheat , till the time of harvest . nor is it for any man to suggest , that this mild and moderate temper was only intended for those primitive times , when the christians were liable to persecution without any temporal power to defend themselves : for let the choicest champions but grant that those were the best and purest times , and then it will behove them to shew a dormant vvarrant in the scripture , by which christ ever gave commission to his disciples to cut the throats of all dissenters , or to despoil them of their estates , and send them to perpetual banishment , and they have done their work : but if they can bring no such authority , they must acknowledge that lording o'er the conscience is an unwarrantable piece of tyranny over the rights and liberties of a christian . true it is , that the successors of constantine were taught by their eclesiasticks , that there were two duties required from them ; one as christians , the other as soveraigns : that as christians , they were bound to obey divine precepts , as every private man is bound to do ; but as princes , to make good laws , and keep their subjects steady in the practice of piety , honesty and justice , chastizing the transgressors of his sacred laws , espeaclally the deacalogue . and because they who transgressed against the first table , which relates to divine worship , were worse then they who transgressed against the second , which relates only to justice between man and man , therefore princes were oblig'd to punish blasphemy , perjury , and heresy , more severely then murder or theft . as for blasphemy and perjury , there was reason sufficient why they should be punished by civil penalties , for blasphemers and perjured persons cannot be thought to be men of conscience , nor are they that take that liberty to be endured , for that blasphemy and perjury are criminal in all religions , and differing opinions whatever , as being contrary to good manners , and contaminations of civil society ; but it does not follow from hence , that every man must be punished as a heretick , who differs in his judgement from the church of england . certainly it must be first agreed upon , what a heretick is , and who is that heretick , and which is that law that reaches his offence , before they can punish him by any law. now those things that make a heretick , are errors in fundamentals or about fundamentals , conviction and contumacy ; and they are hereticks , who obstinately and against the most evident light of truth , defend some doctrine directly or of necessary consequence tearing up the foundations of christian faith. the church of england therefore should have made it out , that the dissenters and roman catholicks were hereticks of this sort , convicted and contumacious ; and then all they could do , was to put them under excommunication , not to torment their persons and estates , with mulcts , imprisonments , fines , and sequestrations , which how dissonant it is from the golden rule of god himself , still preferring mercy above sacrifice , is evidently apparent . the character of menelaus in the second of maccabees is , that he was unworthy of the preisthood , as one that had the fury of a cruel tyrant , and the rage of a savage beast . conformable to which , was that of cicero , quoted by lactantius , it is the most miserable thing in the world , ( says he ) to carry a savage and cruel disposition under the shape of a man. it is said that diana of the scythians , had a temple and an altar near the entrance into the lake meotis , upon which it , was the custom of the heathens to sacrifice the bodies of living men ; a cruelty little differing from the severity of those people that seem to make their interest their scythian diana , and living men the sacrifices to their ambition , and the support of their spiritual grandeur . yet this must be the main design of those that study thus the destruction of all other mortals but themselves within the verge of their jurisdiction ; which as it is a great argument of a spiritual arbitrary government , so is it at the same time a sign of no less presumption for a particular number of men , enclosed within the narrow circle of episcopacy , compar'd with those vast multitudes of dissenters and roman-catholicks , that under various names of distinction invented by their adversaries , spread themselves over the fourth part of the world , to arrogate to themselves to be the only flock of christ ; and that they are the only pastors who have power to drive men to heaven ; for this is to disclaim the popes supremacy , and usurp it to themselves ; to preach down one antichrist , and set up six and twenty : for if meekness , mildness , unity , peace , and concord , are the vertues that embellish christian jurisdiction ; cruelty , rigor , persecution and violence , must be the marks of antichristian tyranny . they therefore that so vehemently persecute the professors of christianity , because they either doubt or happily err in some particulars that will admit of ambiguity , and which it may be , have been otherwise understood in former ages , are most unjust . for we find that the antient jews did never punish the sadduces , tho they denied the doctrine of the resurrection . for that tho it were most true , yet then it was but only glanced at in their law , and not taught at all , but covertly under types and figures . but supposing the errors to be such , as among equal judges might be easily confuted , both by the authority of the scriptures , and the common consent of the fathers ; nevertheless the great strength of an over-grown opinion is to be considered , and how the endeavours of men to defend their own sects , diminishes the strength and liberty of their judgments . a man will sooner part with any thing than his opinion : an opinion , says chrysostom , that has taken deep root through custome , is hardly to be removed : for that there is nothing that we alter with more unwillingness then our customes in religion . but whether this different opinion be an error , and how it is to be punished , he only can without danger judge , who is the eternal judge , who alone knows the true measures of knowledge and the proportion of faith. let them rage against you , says st. austin concerning the manichees , who can presume to be without errors themselves ; for my part i neither can nor dare , for i ought to bear with you as others did formerly with me , and to treat you with as much patience , meekness , and gentleness , as they did me , when i was blindly carryed away with your errors . religionis non est religionem cogere , says tertullian ; and athanasius also highly blames the arrians , because they were the first that call'd in the civil power to their assistance against their antagonists , and that endeavoured by force , stripes , and imprisonments , to draw such to themselves , whom they could not win by the strength of their arguments . gregory , bishop of rome , writing to the bishop of constantinople , said that it was a new and unheard of manner of preaching , to enforce faith by stripes and punishments . history also affords us the examples of several french bishops , who were condemned by the judgment of the church for calling in the civil power against the priscillianists ; and of a whole council in the east that was condemned for consenting to the burning of bogomilus . conformable to the sayings of plato , the punishment of him that errs , is to be instructed . and of seneca , that no wise man ever hated those that erred ; for if so , he must necessarily sometimes hate himself : and therefore the emperour valentinian is highly commended , because he never persecuted any man for his religion , nor ever commanded this or that to be adored ; nor forced his subjects to embrace his own manner of worship . infinite are the sayings of the primitive fathers and men of learning , their successors , who have all along condemned the forcing of conscience , or compelling men to do a thing which is contrary to their conscience , or to abstain from such exercises as they in conscience esteem necessary and profitable for their salvation : all centring in the utter detestation of all manner of violence and imposition in matters of religion . a maxim which not all the usurpations of ecclesiastical persons have bin able to corrupt . and therefore it was the saying of montluc , a roman catholic , and bishop of valence , that the rigors of torments was never to be practized towards people who had no other crime but only a perswasion which they thought to be good and pious . peter martyr speaking of the power of the church , it is her duty , says he , to correct sinners , not with the sword , not with penal-laws or fines , not with imprisonment or exilement , but after her own method , by the efficacy and power of the word . it is said of maximilian the second , emperour of germany , that tho he persever'd to his death a roman catholic , yet he was never the less disesteemed by the protestants ; for that in matters of religion he observed an exact moderation between both parties , and never ceas'd till he had obtain'd the use of the cup in the eucharist , for those of his subjects that desir'd it . the same emperour also gave this advice to henry the third of france , then returning out of poland , to quiet all disturbances in his kingdom at his first entrance into it ; according to the example of his father ferdinand , who after he had long toyl'd and labour'd in the reign of charles the v. to appease the troubles in germany , and settle the differences about religion , when he found the minds of the people more provok'd , then any remedy obtain'd by force and violence , with the consent and applause of all the orders of the empire , made those favourable concessions , which when nothing also would do , restor'd tranquilitie to the empire . more remarkable was that saying of henry the third of france himself , upon his death-bed , after he had received his deaths wound from clement the monk , nor let the cause of religion deter ye : this error long possess'd me , and drew me into inextricable mistakes . the pretence of religion hurried us into faction . leave that to the judgment of the orders of the kingdom , and keep this in your minds as a fix'd and constant maxime , that religion , which is inspir'd into the minds of men by god , cannot be commanded by men. nay , pius the fourth , the none of the best of popes , yet being sollicited by the french embassador for the use of the eucharist in both kinds , had so much kindness for toleration , that he gave for answer to the embassador , that he had always thought the use of the sacrament in both kinds , and liberty for the priest-hood to marry , were things indifferent , and as depending rather upon the decrees of the fathers , then upon divine authority , might be altered according to the constitutions of times , and alteration of customes . and in the council of trent , several of the wisest and chiefest of the prelates stiffly argu'd against the prohibition of the use of the cup , affirming those to be void of christian charity , who stood so strictly and so nicely upon a particular ceremony , the granting of which might prevent the effusion of much blood , and recover into the bosom of the church many that were fallen from her. and thus what scripture and humane authority justify , common reason is no less ready to uphold . for first , if the word of god be the sole rule of faith , and no humane authority be so highly impowr'd as to bind up our assents to whatever interpretations shall be propos'd , then of necessity it follows that every christian indifferently has an equal interest in the will of the creator , so that no particular person has a right to impose a force upon the judgment of his brother . thus one holds the baptizing of infants to be necessary ; another deems it lawful ; a third denies both these opinions , yet admitting that it may , but that there is no necessity it should be done ; therefore they conferr texts , and examine the original ; yet after all diligence used , they still are but where they were . now what reason can there be to advise persecution for such a difference as this ? besides , there are several disputes upon various points of christianity , that cannot be cleard to any man by arguments meerly natural , as being matters of fact , such are the miracles and resurrection of christ , the real presence , &c. for the belief of which therefore , there is a need of faith , which is the gift of grace , and not of nature : which being so , and seeing more-over that it is not within the power of man to give a reason why some men believe , and others are of a contrary opinion ; it cannot fall under the imagination of man , that either the defect or surplusage of belief , which may perhaps glide into superstition , which of the two so'ere be the cause of the difference , should be subject to the punishment of human laws ; for tho both have the same outward helps and means to inform themselves , yet the potent cause is in the will of god , who will have mercy upon whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardens . and therefore for this cause it was that tertullian avers that the new law of the gospel does not call for the sword to revenge the injuries done it . and sisibutus king of spain , was justly tax'd for compelling the jews to christianity by the coercive power of the sword , when he ought to have won them to the faith by meek and gentle perswasions . in the next place this violent and rigorous proceeding and tyrannizing over the consciences of men , is contrary to the purpose of god in the order of the creation , who made and ordain'd all man-kind free from bondage , and never advanc'd him over all the works of his creation , to be a contemptible slave to the will of his fellow creature , even in things temporal ; much less in matters spiritual and relating to eternity . so that this same actual violence of imposing by force in matters of faith , worship and duty to god , of one man upon another , or of some persons over all , is an act of the highest presumption imaginable , that goes about to subdue to bondage and slavery , those that are created by god to equal priviledges and immunities with themselves ; subjecting them by oppression , not to the divine will of the creator , but to the will , ambition and interest of mortal creatures , no less fraile and subject to error then they over whom they affect illegal dominion . a thing which is quite contrary to the most pure and perfect order of the creation , which was altogether blessed . from which whatever is degenerated by corruption , or has deviated by temptation from that pure and regular order , either in things temporal or divine , must be included within the curse of sin , and be lookt upon as an opposing the creator himself . and of this nature , is compulsion exercised in spiritual matters ; as being the highest product of degenerate usurpation , and the grandest swerving imaginable from the chief design of the creation . for without all question , the creator himself reserved and retained in his own power alone , the priviledge of supremacy over the inward man , in all matters touching immortality , that he might be the only lord in that case , to give spiritual laws , and to command the souls and hearts of men , in reference to his own worship , and that obedience which is due to himself ; so that of necessity it must be a usurpation of the creators rightful dominion , a robbing him of his dignity and prerogative , an act of violence against his soveraignty , and a bold intruding into his proper right , for any persons to assume to themselves dominion and authority over others , by commanding and imposing in spiritual matters upon their consciences , in the worship and service of god. add to this that force is punishment , and consequently unjust , unless the offence be voluntary : but he that believes according to the evidence of his own reason , is necessitated to that belief , and to compel him against it , were to compel him to renounce the most essential part of man , his reason : and that same injunction would be altogether vain , to hold fast that which w● find to be best , if after the most serious and deliberate election , we must be whipt out of our consciences by penalties . 't is but odly done to preach a company of poor souls into just so much liberty of scripture as may suffice to beget their torture , and not permit them to rest where they find their satisfaction : either utterly prohibit the search , or let them enjoy the benefit of it . to believe what appears untrue , is somewhat impossible ; but to profess what we believe untrue , is absolutely damnable . nor is it one of the least arguments against compulsion of conscience , that it breaks the bands of civil society , and annihilates all manner of love , unity , fellowship , and concord among men . neighbours are at enmity among neighbours , brethren with brethren , and families are divided among themselves . princes and their subjects , rulers and their people are at discord and debates , that many times turns to absolute disobedience and rebellion ; while the one labours to impose , the other to keep off the oppression . men , says zenophon , resist none with greater animosity , then those that affect to tyrannize over their bodies ; more especially such as seek to establish an illegal dominion over their minds and consciences . they contend pro aris in the first place , and pro focis afterwards ; thereby preferring the liberty of their consciences , before the security of their estates ; which they rather choose to abandon , then to be deprived of their spiritual freedom . and this is that which causes , and has caused so many thousands in this nation to forsake their native soyle , their friends & relations , to the decay of civil fellowship and commerce , and out of a detestable antipathy to their oppressors , to seek for forraign protection , under which to enjoy the more noble and agreeable pleasure of enjoying the free exercise of their sentiments in divine worship . again , grotius tells us , that there never was any sect that could discern all truth , nor any but what held something that is true ; as then they are to be favoured for what they hold of truth , so are they not to be punished for what they maintain of mistaken beleif ; since all men are free by nature to believe whatever they think to be good and honest . we cannot love god too much . now supposing that the clergy of england , may esteem the roman catholicks over zealous in some points of worship which may be thought too superstitious , what then ? for superstition does not sin in worshiping god too much , but in worshiping him erroneously ; in point of which error and consequent non-complyance with the episcopal tenents of the church of england , these failings of theirs , are not to be squeez'd out of their bones and purses , but to be reform'd by gentle instructions and convincement , according to the true duty of bishops to instruct , perswade , exhort and reprove , but not to command or compel . to what has been said , may be added the vanity of the undertaking , it having been all along evinc'd by the stories of all ages , that forcing of conscience , and persecution for religions sake , have not only become frustrate , but increased the number of those sects and divisions of which they sought the extirpation , and that the sword , exile , fagot , imprisonment , and heavy fines , rather provoak then cure the obstinacy of reluctant minds . for the conformation of which , we find from the beginning and for a long time the christian relgion industriously opposed by the most potent adversaries , then ruling in the world , and extirpation of it no less cruelly labour'd by the fury of ten persecutions ; yet could not all that vast effusion of blood put a stop to its progress , nor prevent its growing to such a head , as at length to turn tyrannick heathenism with all her fantastick abominations , and false divinities quite out of the world. the same may be said of the albigenses , against whom the fryers preached , the inquisitors plotted , the princes made war , while the pope accursed their persons , and interdicted their lands , yet for all the pope could do , they could not be supprest . and of the waldenses , says thuanus , tho they were toss'd from post to pillar , yet there were ever some found , who still in their several courses renewed their doctrine , buryed as it were for a season . for sects and opinions are like books , which the more they are suppressed , the more they are sought after and caress'd : and therefore tacitus , speaking of the annalls of cremutius cordus , condemn'd by the senate to be burnt , for advancing the praises of brutus and cassius , relates that some indeed were burnt by the edils , but more were preserv'd , and , afterwards published . an argument ( says he ) sufficient that the vanity and madness of those men , is to be derided , who imagin by present power to stifle the remembrances of future ages . and the author of the council of trent , speaking of the prohibition of heretical books , observes that it did more harm then good , while the books being sought for as such , did but serve to raise and instill new doubts and scruples in the minds of the readers . the same is to be said of the persecutions of men in their bodies and goods ; for others observing the extream patience and constancy of so many people suffering for their particular opinions in matters of religion , become curious to understand what that religion should be that inspires men with so much resolution to suffer the worst of miseries , rather then abandon the profession of it , which is the reason that persecutors according to the opinion of strada , though they are not concerned in tormenting , yet they dread the triumphs of the tormented at their executions , for that it has been frequently known that one martyr ● made many proselytes , by his resolute maintaining to the last , the profession for which he dyed . from hence we may proceed to shew the dreadful effects and mischiefs that have attended the persecutions of tender consciences in matters of religion , which have generally prov'd most fatal , and in the end redounded to the greatest loss of the persecutors themselves ; for of all the roman emperours that exerciz'd those horrid cruelties upon the christians under their subjection , only trajan and septimius severus dy'd a natural death ; for as for antoninus the philosopher , tho he suffer'd a persecution in asia , yet in other parts of his dominions the christians were unmolested , and served him in his army , where they fought for him so effectually , as well with their prayers as with their swords , that he acknowledged to the senate , as much hated as they were , that certainly the christians had god for their protector . all the rest came to untimely ends ; either their own executioners , or murdered by their own souldiers and servants ; tho none so remarkably punished for their cruelties as valerian , who being vanquished by sapor the persian , was by him made his foot , stool when he took horse , and at length was flead alive . what occasioned the cossac war so prejudicial to poland , but because the russian polonians of the catholic religion would have forc'd the cossacks to the observation of their churches , and to that end have shut up the grecian churches ? what occasioned the revolt of the rustic's in germany , and the hussites in bohemia ? what occasioned the league of smalcald , and the cruel vvar that ensued , but the oppression of the ecclesiasticks ? by which all that was got was this , that the bloody ecclesiasticks satisfy'd their revenge with the slaughter of the poor people ; while the other indulge'd their hatred , and sacrific'd to their antipathy the vvealth and religious structures of their persecutors ; and between both , whole regions and countries were depopulated and ruin'd . vvhat lost philip the second so fair a portion of his dominions , but his severity in forcing conscience ? but his bigotted zeal to gratify the interest of rome , by suffering his grand executioner alva to ride triumphantly in the chariot of the abominated inquisition , over the necks of his tender-conscienc'd subjects , till he had by all manner of torments disburden'd the countrey of no less then eighteen thousand innocent christians . the reign of charles the ninth , deform'd with civil vvars , with various success of battel , with seiges and sacks of cities and towns , and havock of his subjects , was rendered yet more in famous by the parisian massacre , then which , there never was a more inhumane piece of barbarity known among the heathens themselves . but what was the advantage of their butchery ? what the issue of it to the king , after he had emptyed his kingdom of ten thousand of his subjects , among which five hundred all persons of quality ? in the first place , upon too late a consideration , a deep repentance for having given his consent , and a resolution had he liv'd to have punished his advisors : then every night his slumbers interrupted with nocturnal terrors , till having linger'd under most grievous and tedious pains , and long perceiv'd his death approach before he dy'd ; he ended his days a young youth , in the th year of his age. to omit the loss of the low-countries , by reason of the cruelty of the inquisition , we find the people in all places the most devoted and accustomed to ecclesiastical rigour , mutinying even to blood-shed , against the torments of that tribunal . in naples , peter of toledo the viceroy , in obedience to the pope , would fain have brought it in ; but when he began to put it in execution , it caus'd such an uproar among the people , that it came to be almost a petty vvar between the commonalty and the garrison , wherein many were slain on both sides , so that the viceroy was forc'd to desist in his design ; neither has any offer been made to obtrude any such kind of office upon that kingdom ever since . even in rome it self , the people detested the cruelties of the inquisition to that degree , that the breath was no sooner out of the body of paul the iv. but that they went with great furie to the new prison of the inquisition , brake down the doors and let out all the prisoners therein detained , & could hardly be restrained from setting on fire the church of the dominicans , as being the persons entrusted with the execution of that rigid employment more then that , in detestation of the inquisition , all enrag'd , they forc'd their way into the palace , and meeting the popes statue all of parian marble , and a noble piece of workmanship , they cut off the head and the right hand , and for three days together kickt them about the streets , and made them the sport of the whole city . nor has england it self felt the least share of the inconveniencies of spiritual persecution : where acts of parliament have been made use of only as traps and snares to dis-people the nation . what false crimes were laid to the primitive christians by the flatterers of the emperour sep. severus , to incense him to the first persecution , the same accusations were lately thrown upon the dissenters , of being homicides , turbulent , sacrilegious , traytors against caesar , and in a word meer canibals : and by vertue of which pretended calumnies and meditated slanders , the civil magistrate , out of the good opinion he has of those that make the clamour , not presently discerns the trapan which is put upon them to make laws for the punishment of those persons , over whom they have indeed no jurisdiction ; till at length the ill use of those laws better informs their judgement , and that they were imposed upon to frame persecuting statutes , and authorize prosecutions , not to prevent disturbances in government , but to gratifie the pride and ambition of their hot-headed advisers ; hence under pretence of disaffection to the civil power , continual plots and treasons are discovered , and the discovery so well managed , that some are hanged , others fin'd , others condemned to long imprisonment . which accusations , because they reach not many , therefore all the rest , as being birds of the same feather , must suffer for their sakes ; and the same pretences being still kept on foot for a covert , they let fly the arrows of their indignation against the whole body , and chastize the pretence , where they could not find any fact committed to punish . and indeed the grounds of the pretence are the only crimes committed against them ; all that will not conform to their ceremonies are supposed to be seditious persons ; none that go to meetings and conventicles can be good and loyal subjects : and therefore all that will not conform , or refrain from going to meetings , must be scourged with the scorpions of ecclesiastical censure and excommunication ; must be amerc'd at pleasure , imprison'd till submission , many to their utter impoverishment , or till they pine away in jayle : and they that would live peaceably and quietly under the government , can have no rest in their own families . upon this thousands take their flight beyond sea , and draw off their estates , by which means the kingdom is depopulated , the manufacture of the nation carryed into forraign countries , and the prince loses the assistance of the wealth and persons of so many of his subjects , to the ruine of the kingdom and scandal of the government . a sort of christian politicks which the church of england could only learn from the uncharitable bigotrie of that same prince , who cryed out , that he would rather choose to be king of a countrey without people ; then of a kingdome peopled with heriticks : contrary to the saying of adrian , one of the wisest among the roman emperours , that he wished his empire strengthed rather by the encrease of people and inhabitants , then excess of treasure . but this was neither the policy of the antient heathens , nor of the more prudent common wealths and governments of latter ages . among all the heathen nations that we meet with in history , the egyptions were the first from whom all the world beside , the jews excepted , deriv'd that same dark knowledge which the other had of the gods and divine worship . their early superstition had set up no less then twelve divinities to begin withal , who were all worship'd in various shapes with various rites and ceremonies ; all which with their several portraitures and sacred mysteries ( for so they call'd the rites of adoration belonging to every idol ) the grecians afterwards translated into their own countrey , and for a while exactly observed the precepts and methods of their first instructors . here was a great number of divinities with every one a particular form of worship attending him , and yet we do not find that the grecians were afraid to transport them all into their several cities , for fear least the variety of superstitions , should set their people together by the ears , while one priest cry'd up his divinity , another extoll'd his , and shatter'd the vulgar into factions and contentions , which was the best . no , the priests were still contented with what followers they had , and every man was left to his freedom to worship what divinity he pleas'd , as his affection and devotion govern'd him . a strange misfortune to christian religion , that the heathens should be so conformable in the midst of so much varietie of feign'd divinities , and we not be able to adjust those few ceremonies in dispute relating to the worship of the true and one god , when we have his own inspir'd scripture for our guide . in athens there were as many sects and opinions dayly taught , as there were almost philosophers in the city ; and many differing in their sentiments even concerning the gods themselves . yet the magistrate was never call'd upon for their suppression , but rather they were cherish'd and honour'd with statues after their death . the magistrates , rulers and greatest captains of that age were their hearers and disciples , adhering at pleasure to whom they thought fit , as their reason and judgement lead them . and this publick toleration it was that render'd athens one of the most famous and flourishing cities of the world. nor was socrates punish'd for introducing an innovation in their religion , but because he neither could inform his judges , nor they were able to understand who that god was , therefore they put him to death for injuring all the rest whom they believ'd to be as true as his unknown deity . i pass but lightly over the jews , by reason they had the knowledge of the true god , and were oblig'd not to engage in the superstitions of the heathens ; yet were they not so rigid neither as to exclude the gentiles from among them , but had their atrium gentium for their reception , altho unconverted ; nor did they refuse the sacrifices and oblations of the the kings of egypt , nor those of augustus and fiberius ; all which they thought no breach of their laws to offer up in their holy temples . but to return to the gentiles , this is farther to be observ'd , that they were so far from suppressing varietie of opinions , that they took no notice of the many fables of the poets , that dayly uttered such irreverent and mean thoughts of their ador'd divinities , as to make them robbers , adulterers and drunkards ; incident to all the frailties , and guilty of all the crimes that the worst of men can be said to commit . how soever these fables every day made some change or other in their religon ; for the gods still multiplying by procreation and canonization of heroes , greece was so stockt and replenisht with deities , that they sent whole colonies of feign'd divinities among their neighbours , who gave them free admission , without disputing the toleration of their new invented sacrifices , lustrations and other superstitions , tho perhaps never heard of before . 't is true , their gods would be sometimes out of humour ; but their particular priests had a care how they pusht their feigned anger too far , & found out a way by some oracle or other to understand their meaning and set all right again . however it shews that had the priest-hood been as captious then , as some of ours at this time , they might have put so many capricio's into the heads , sometimes of one , and sometimes of another idol , as might have given the civil magistrate no small vexation . among the romans the catalogue of their gods exceeded thirty thousand ; and their forms of worship were as various as they . for their god pan they had their luperci and lupercalia . for ceres their secret mysteries and female priests . for hercules they had their potitij and pinarij . they had also their arval fraternity , and their sixty curiones to offer up sacrifice in behalf of the several curiae or parishes in rome . they had their colledge of augurs , and their flamin's ; for mars they had their salij ; for their goddess dea bona , they had their vestal nuns ; for cybele , their galli and corybantes . all this lookt like the variety of our sects and opinions at this day ; and yet we never hear of those contentions , disputes and enmities that rage among us . they never incens'd the magistrate to persecution , but as they agreed singly together , so they agreed in the whole ; or if any difference happened among them in point of religion , 't was but repairing to the colledge of pontiffs , where their questions were immediately resolv'd , and their determinations never contradicted . and for a farther mark of this general toleration , we find the pantheon erected , and after it was burnt down , rebuilt by adrian , where all the gods were worshiped in common . moreover we find mention made in suetonius of collegia antiqua et sacra , in the plural number , upon which cujacius animadverts , that the senate and princes of the roman people permitted several colledges as well for the exercise of forraign religion , as of that of their own countrey : and augustus confest , that he permitted the colledges and assemblies of the jews , because he found them to be the schools of temperance and justice , not as they were reported , the seminaries of sedition . to proceed to the christians , they were no sooner grown numerous , but we find them muster'd in the armies of the heathen emperours , and tolerated without disturbance by commodus , tho a bad prince ; in whose time pontienus set up a school in alexandria , where he publicly taught the christian religion . alexander severus gave public toleration to the christians , in so much that when a complaint was made to him by the rabble that kept public tipling-houses , that the christians had taken possession of a place to build a church in the ground that belonged to them , he return'd for his answer , that 't was much better that god should be worshiped in that place after any form , then that it should be allow'd for houses of debauchery . and thus we find that toleration of religion was allow'd so long as heathenism continued in the world. to these succeeded constantine , the first of all the roman emperours that made open profession of christianity . by whom we find such an indulgence given not only to the christians , but to all manner of religions , with the consent of his collegue in the empire , licinius ; that we could not omit the insertion in this place of the most material part of it . at what time , i constantine augustus , and licinius augustus happily met at millain , and had in consultation whatever might conduce to the public benefit and security ; among the rest we thought those things were first to be taken care of , which would prove most profitable to most men , as relating to the worship of the supream deity ; to which purpose we thought fit to grant to the christians and all others , free liberty to exercise what religion every one best approv'd , to the end we might render that supream divinity who sits in his coelestial throne , propitious to us and all the people under our dominion : wherefore following this wholsome counsel , and the dictates of right reason , we thought it our safest and wisest course not to deny liberty to any one , who either followed the profession of the christians , or addicted himself to any other religion which he thought most agreeable with his judgment , that the most high god , to whom we freely and heartily yield obedience , may afford us his wonted favour and kindness in all our enterprizes . for this reason we give your excellency to understand that it is our pleasure , that all restraints formerly appearing in your office in reference to the christians being disannull'd , we do now enact sincerely and plainly , that every one who has a mind to observe the christian religion , may freely do it without any disturbance or molestation . which we have thought fit fully to signify to your excellency , to the end you might understand that we have given free and absolute leave to the christians for the exercise of their religion . and as we have granted this indulgence to them , so your excellency is likewise to understand that we have granted the same open and free liberty to all others to exercise the religion to which they have chosen to adhere , for the tranquility of our reign , to the end that every one may be free in the election of his worship without any prejudice from us , either to his honour or to his religion . and this we thought fit moreover to decree in reference to the christians , that their meeting-places be restor'd them without any hesitation or delay , and without the demand of any fees or sums of money : and if any fines or mulcts have been sequester'd formerly into our exchequer , or taken by any other person , that the same be also restor'd them without the least diminution . or if they have any favour to request further at our hands , let them make choice of any of our advocates to take care of their affairs . [ the rest i omit , as less pertinent to our purpose . ] but after them , when the emperours began to lend an ear to ecclesiastic rigour , and sects became predominant as they were guarded by the power and protection of the civil magistrate , 't is a strange thing how soon the several schisms and opinions that had taken root under the milder sway of the heathens , began to rend the church into a thousand factions ; and whereas a single colledge of pontiffs would serve the heathen priest-hood to resolve their doubts the determination's of national councils could not put a stop to the growing controversies of the christians , but from words they fell to blows ; and happy they who could get the soveraign prince on their side , for the other were sure to go by the worst . so early was the civil power made an engine to support the pride and ambition of spiritual contenders . at what time an eutychian pope , by name horsmisdas , having the upper hand , gave this motto for answer to all that admonish'd him of his severity . nos imperare volumus , nos imperari nolumus . it were to be wish'd that this motto may not have got too much footing in england . and now liberty of conscience seem'd for a time exterminated from the earth , till we meet with it again among the goths , who as procopius alledges , would never in the height of all their conquests , compel the vanquished to embrace the religon which they professed , but left them to their own : it being always the maxime of rulers truly generous , to engage men rather as their friends then as their slaves , thinking themselves far more safe in a free , then in a compell'd obedience . but to descend to latter times , we find that even among the mahumetans , all over turky , no man is compell'd to embrace the mahumetan superstition , but that all people , unless the professors of heathenish idolatry , are left to the exercise of their own religion . and this , as several authors observe , was at first the chiefest means by which the turks enlarged their empire over the christian vvorld . for that many people rather chose to live under the turk , permitting them the liberty of their consciences , then under the exorbitant tyranny of the spanish inquisition . and further , others observe , that nothing has rendered the turk more powerful then the king of spain's expulsion of all the moors and turks out of his territories , in the year , at what time above a hundred and twenty thousand of those exiles retir'd into africa and other parts of the turkish dominions , to the great benefit of the turks , who learnt from them to combat the europeans with their own weapons , and their own arts of war. the persians give liberty to the melchites under the patriarch of antiochia , who obstinately maintain all those errors that were condem'd by the synod of florence ; together with the nestorians and christian armenians , who have no patriarchs of their own ; nor are the roman catholics excluded the chief city of ispahan . to which we may add their toleration of the jews , and the dissenting sects in their own religion . in poland , tho generally the nobility adhere to the church of rome , yet they prohibit none ; and the mixture of lutherans , calvinists , socinians , anabaptists , greeks and jews , who there enjoy most ample priviledges , apparently demonstrates , well-constituted government to be no enemy to liberty of conscience . nor does the scrupulous muscovite exclude those of the augustan confession from having a church of their own within view of the city of moscow it self . that the switzers are a prudent people appears by the permanent constitution of their government , by them upheld and propagated for so many ages together ; their concord has rendered them populous , and their populousness has made them formidable to all the neighbouring princes , by whom they have been all along courted for their assistance , and to whom they have been beholding for the chiefest part of their conquests . all this while a people half protestants , half catholic's , yet in general so equally unanimous , and in some particular cities so peaceably intermix'd , that you never hear among them , since they first leagu'd together for the common security , of any quarrels or contentions for superiority ; or of any fines , imprisonments , or banishing of the dissenting parties ; nor do they refuse their protection to any that fly from other countries to seek tranquility of conscience among them . there is the same mixture of the two professions of popery and calvinism among the grisons , and the same unanimity ; and this confirm'd by the league of the ten jurisdictions , by which all disputations concerning religion are forbid , to prevent exasperation and contests among nations and friends , tho differing in opinion . in venice the roman catholic religion prevails ; yet such is the prudence and generosity of the government and governours , that they cannot deny to others that liberty which they enjoy themselves ; in so much that tho they admitted the inquisition into their territories , yet they fil'd it's sharp fangs in such a manner , that the malice and fury of it was render'd ineffectual ; for they decreed that the inquisition should not meddle either with witches or inchanters ; nor with those that should offer to buffet an image , or lampoon the vices and disorders of the clergy , nor indeed have any power to prohibit the printing of any books whatever . that it should have no power over blasphemy , or such as married two wives ; nor in causes of usury . that it should have no jurisdiction over jews ; infidels , or those that follow the ceremonies of the greek church ; nor any authority over any secular trade or profession ; and in all other causes whatever that were brought before the tribunal of the inquisition , they reserv'd to themselves the examination , judgment and final determination of the matter ; which indeed was an absolute toleration of jews , infidels and greek christians , and under that notion , of all other opinions that they pleas'd themselves . as to witches , they gave this reason why the inquisition should not meddle with them , for that they were generally women , a poor people craz'd in their understandings , and therefore more fitting to be instructed by the minister , then punished by the judge . as for blasphemy , the punishment of it belong'd to the civil magistrate ; and so for bigamy and usury . as to the toleration of jews , &c. they argu'd from st. paul , that the ecclesiastical authority had no power over those that were not in the church . and in behalf of the greeks they urg'd , that the difference and disputes between the greek and roman church were yet undetermined , and that therefore it was not sit the church of rome should be judge in her own cause . lastly , against the prohibition of books they pleaded , that it was the way to stifle learning , and prevent the coming forth of many good books , necessary for the instruction of man kind . that it belong'd only to the civil magistrates to prevent the enormities of scandalous writers , and therefore that the ecclesiastie's were not to thrust their sickles into other mens harvests . thus we find the venetians , tho in other things obedient to the see of rome , yet in the point of toleration altogether dissenting from it ; for they believe it to be their interest to take care , least the people being depriv'd of the liberty of their minds , should be alienated in their affections from the government ; therefore they are contented that the people should enjoy their liberty , provided they do not disturb the public peace . to return into germany , even in vienna it self , the chief city of the empire , the emperour maximilianus the second allow'd the evangelic's the free exercise of their religion in the monastery of the minorites , which tho it were deny'd them by his son rudolphus the second , was again by the indulgence of matthias the emperour restor'd them ; so that they had their public assemblies at hornals , a village close by the city ; within the walls of which they had besides the freedom to baptize , administer the sacrament , and marry according to their own forms , till ferdmand the second retracted their priviledges , and forc'd them , whenever the duty of their worship required , to go as far as presburgh or edenburgh . it would be too long to trace the several regions of germany , where so many soveraign princes and free states , exemplary for their justice and moderation , foster liberty of conscience as the main support of their governments . 't will be enough to mention briefly those of chiefest note ; the dukes of saxony , brunswick and lunenburgh , the dukes of wittenbergh and holsatia , the elector palatine , the duke of bavaria , tho of the romish perswasion , the duke of newburgh and the landgrave of hessen , the cities of ratisbone , frankford upon the main , and spire , where the evangelic's are allow'd the free exercise of their religion , and meet every sunday , from seven till eight in the morning , and from twelve till one in the afternoon : not to omit auspurgh , where the chief magistrates of the city are half protestants and half papists ; nor those most noble emporiums of the northern parts of europe , hamborough , lubeck , breme and dantzick : to which if we should add the states of the united netherlands , it would be only to trouble the reader with what is known to all the world. and yet the flourishing condition of these countries and territories , the number of people , and the tranquility which they enjoy , apparently demonstrate , that liberty of conscience is no such enemy to man-kind , as to be so rudely harrass'd and exterminated from the earth with all the rigors and vexations that render life uncomfortable . having thus established the truth of religions toleration upon the foundations of scripture , reason , authority and example , certainly the wonder must be very great among discerning persons , that men who boast a more refin'd profession of christian religion , who aspire to peace , to love , to moderation , and truth toward all men , should with so much passion and bitter animosity , exercise their hatred upon their brethren , for the niceties of different opinions ; so that if we come to know of what profession they are , 't is their imperfection , not their perfection that makes the discovery : which preceeds from hence , that ecclesiastical functions and dignities are esteem'd for the benefits and advantages men reap thereby either of wealth or fame . which abuse once crept into the church , was the first occasion that many men of evil principles greedily thirsted after ecclesiastical preferments ; and that the love of propagating sacred religion degenerated into avarice and ambition ; and that the church it self was turn'd into a theater , where the great doctors studied not the plainness of true preaching , but to shew the quaintness of their oratory . they never bent their minds to teach the people , but to tickle their ears into an admiration of their elegant expressions and gingling satyrs upon dissenters and papists , as they thought their themes would be most pleasing to their auditors ; which did but inflame the contentions already rais'd , and beget contempt and hatred to themselves , and breed an animosity not easy to be reconcil'd in them who had been so rudely , tho undeservedly handled . no wonder then that nothing remain'd of primitive religion besides the external worship ( with which the people rather seem'd to flatter then adore the supream divinity ) and that faith was now become no other then credulity and prejudice . that very prejudice , that renders men of rational creatures , brutes ; as being that which hinders every man from making use of his free judgment , and being able to distinguish truth from falshood ; and which seems to have been invented on purpose to extinguish the light of the understanding . piety and religion are made a compound of erroneous mysteries of humane policy ; and they who contemn reason , and reject the directions of the understanding as corrupted by nature ; would themselves be thought to have the divine light ; tho had they but the least spark of divine light , they would not so proudly insult , but learn more prudently to worship god , and as now in hatred , so then in love , to excel the rest of their brethren . nor would they persecute with such an open hostility , those that cannot in conscience comply with their impositions , but rather take pity of their failings , unless they would be thought more fearful of their own worldly interest , then sollicitous for the others salvation . seeing then that the establishing of any religious perswasion by force , is so contrary to scripture , reason and common sence , it remains then that only worldly interest , and the support of a domineering hierarchy , must be the chief motives that engag'd the late persecutors to procure those penal laws , which in contempt of the light of nature , and their own videmus meliora's , they put so rigorously in execution . laws that punish the very supposition of crimes and transgressions in conceit ; laws that punish the body with corporal vexations for the supposed transgressions of the mind and will ; laws that pretended to dive into the breasts of men , and to discover evil in their thoughts , as if enacted to torment the souls of mankind before their time : in a word , laws that were abolish'd by reason as soon as made ; for if laws are grounded upon reason , and these laws are contrary to reason , as it is plain they were , for that laws are made to redress , not to increase the grievances of the people ; then were they null as soon as form'd . for if laws do not arise out of natural reason , but are only made to avoid some greater mischief pretended to be foreseen ; we are not rashly to admit of such an interpretation , as to make that sinful or criminal which is otherwise lawful . thus to seperate from the church of england , is a thing no way in it's self unlawful , and therefore cannot be made criminal by a law , there being no natural equity to make it so , and consequently not punishable by the law. : nor can their meeting in conventicles be a crime ; for that the doctrine of men that teach those things which are just and honest , can never be fear'd , especially when they are exact in their obedience to the magistrate ; nor should their private assemblies be envied or suspected , as being just and innocent men , till they are convicted of being otherwise . and therefore they that persecute such people , ought rather to be prosecuted themselves ; for that by them the law of nature is brok'n in doing injustice to them that never offended ; and it is but natural equity to punish those that wrong their neighbours without a cause . which cause can never be found in a law made contrary to reason ; in a law made to gratify the ambition and interest of a single party , to the disturbance of the greater part of the nation , which is contrary to the common good , and consequently the end of law. moreover , there is no humane law that can command or prohibit an act , purely directly and secundum se , internal . and this is grounded upon the common axiome , cogitationis paena nemo meretur : no man incurs the punishment of thought , for the law has nothing to do with internal acts ; and therefore because it cannot naturally and of it self punish those acts , therefere neither can it either command or prohibit them ; for the legislative power is compulsive , and if it cannot be compulsive as to the inward act , neither can it make a law in reference to it : the reason of this assertion is , for that the legislative power among men is only ordain'd for preservation of the outward peace and honesty of humane community , to which those acts have no relation which are conceived in the mind . then again this power springs immediately from humane community it self , by the means of natural reason . now there is no humane community that can grant a power immediately and of it self , over actions meerly internal , as being altogether without the limits of its knowledge , and without the bounds of its jurisdiction ; for no man is naturally subject to another in his soul , but in his body . therefore said a learned schoolman , he is in an error who believes that servitude lays hold of the whole man ; the better part is excepted . our bodies are lyable to our superiours and governours , but the mind is its own lord and master . then again , the conditions of humane laws are , that the law must be honest , just , possible , convenient to time and place , and conformable to religion and reason . the penal laws are not honest , because they would enforce men to abandon the worship of god , which in their cons●●ences they have made choice of , as believing it to be the most ●●●…e and conformable to scripture , and to submit themselves 〈◊〉 ceremonies , which they as firmly believe to be no way necessa●● for their salvation , but rather contrary to those sentiments ●hich they have of the truth of sacred adoration . they are not just , because they would bereave men of that christian liberty which all men have a priviledge to claim ; and which the most zealous promoters of the penal laws would take most heavily to be themselves depriv'd of . in the second place , they ought to command those things which may be justly observed ; but these laws would enforce men to sin against the dictates of their consciences , the consequence is easy to any . thirdly , the penal laws are not agreeable to religion , for they prohibit what the laws of god allow , which is liberty of conscience , and uphold what the laws of god prohibit , which is spiritual tyranny and dominion in matters of religion . fourthly , the penal laws are contrary to reason and the common benefit of civil society ; for it is not rational that people should be imprison'd , fin'd , and banished , and common security of liberty and property be infring'd even to the loss of men lives , and the depopulation of a kingdom , for pretences over which the civil magistrates pretends not to have any jurisdiction . add to this , that to rendering laws effectual , there are required all the three parts or sorts of justice . first , justitia legalis , whose office is to aim at the common good , and consequently to preserve the due priviledges of all the subjects in general . secondly , justitia commutativa , which requires that the legislator command no more then lies in his power . thirdly , distributive justice , which takes care that the private good of a few , be not respected more then the public good of the whole body . in all which parts of justice , the penal laws being defective , it follows that they were not duly made , consequently invalid and no way obliging . and this is the opinion of all the famous casuists , aquinas , sctus , medina , caster , tolinus , panormitanus , and others , conformable to that of st. austin himself , l. . de civit. dei. c : . the perverse constitutions of men are neither to be accounted nor to be said to be laws ; when that is only to be accounted right and just , which flows from the fountain of justice . now that it is the intrinsic end of all laws duly made , to aim at the common good , is plain from the laws of god themselves , which are such , that tho ordain'd by god himself to his own glory , yet he seeks therein not his own advantage , but the good and benefit of men . in like manner as all humane laws are imposed upon a community of people , so ought they to be made for the general good of that community , otherwise they are irregular ; for it is against all justice to reduce the common good to private interest , or to subject the whole to the part for the parts sake . another reason may be deduc'd from the end it self , for the end must be proportionate to the act , its beginning and efficacy . now the law is the common rule of moral operations ; therefore the first principle of moral operations ought to be the first principle of the law ; but the end or happiness is the first principle of moral operations ; for in morals the beginning is the end of the operations , and so the ultimate end is the first principle of such actions ; but the common good or felicity of a city or kingdom is the ultimate end of it in its government , therefore it ought to be the first beginning of the law , and therefore the law ought to be for the common good. now it is apparent that the penal laws were made only for the particular good and felicity of the church of england men , all others being by them excluded from the benefit of their native priviledges , that could not in conscience conform to the ceremonies of their worship , to the ruin and vexation of many thousands , which was positively against the common good and felicity of the nation and general community of the people , divided only in some points of religion , but in an equal poise of obedience and loyalty to the supream magistrate , and therefore justly deserving equal share of provision by the laws for their security and protection . and therefore unless it can be prov'd that it is for the common good and benefit of the whole nation , that men should be persecuted to uphold the hierarchy of the church of england , the penal laws are unduly made , and therefore as of no force , to be repeal'd and annul'd . therefore the intention of the divine laws might have taught the promoters of these penal statutes better and more christian learning ; for therefore are prelates call'd pastors , because they ought to lay down their lives for the good of the sheep ; not the sheep to lay down their lives for the good of them : they are call'd dispensers and not lords ; ministers of god , not primary causes , and therefore they ought to be conformable to the divine intention in the exercise of their power : god principally intends the common good of men , and therefore his ministers are bound to do the same . they are tyrants , not governours in the church , while they seek their own support and not the common benefit . as to the injustice of the penal laws , experte materiae , in commanding those things which ought not to be observed , this axiom from thence arises . that no unjust law can be a law , and then there lies no obligation to accept it , or to observe it if accepted ; for that the subjects are not only not bound to accept it , but have it not in their power , when the command is clearly and manifestly unjust : as when men are commanded not to meet above such a number under such a penalty , for the exercise of their religion according to their consciences . this is an evil command , because it debars men from the free worship of god ; for unless it could be prov'd that the religion of the church of england is the only true religion in the world , and they the only infallible ministers upon earth , it is unjust in any law to constrain others to believe that , which may be as erroneous in them , as what the other professes : for tho i may believe the liturgy of the church of england to be the purest form of supplication under heaven , yet another may not believe so , neither is it a crime in him to believe otherwise . we have said that the penal laws are defective in point of honesty , which is another reason why they are invalid , and therefore to be annull'd . for the immorality of the precept is contrary to god himself , because it includes a crime and a transgression against god , and therefore ought not to be observ'd as no way obligatory : seeing that it behoves us to obey god rather then man , which is the reason these laws ought not to be observed , as contradicting our obedience to god , and subjecting us to the compulsions of men. in the last place , no law can be valid beyond the intention of the legislators . now it is not rational to think that those persons who made the penal laws upon a presumption of danger from factious and turbulent spirits , ever intended those laws sor the punishment of those that liv'd peaceably and obediently toward the government in all the passive duties of good loyal subjects , for that had been to make laws for the punishment of good men , which was never the design of any just and vertuous legislator in this world. now then the presumption of the danger being remov'd by his majesties most gracious indulgence , the foundation of the penal laws are remov'd , and consequently the obligation to them ; for it is not to be imagin'd that the framers of these laws ever meditated to establish the dominion of a spiritual oligarchy upon the ruin of so many families of pious and religious people ; and therefore the suspitions which were the grounds of these laws being vanish'd , the laws themselves are to be laid aside , as altogether vain and frivolous , and such as have only serv'd to gratify the revenge and animosity of their promoters : for we never hear'd of traytors or factious persons , that were ever try'd upon those laws , there being others of greater force to take hold of such criminals . as for the test , it appears to be an oath continued to prevent the sitting of any commoner or peer in either of the houses of parliament , from coming into his majesties presence or court , and from bearing any office or imployment , military or civil , in any of his majesties realmes of england or ireland , &c. and they that are to take this oath , are thereby to abjure the belief of transubstantiation , invocation or adoration of saints , and the sacrifice of the mass , &c. the learned are of opinion , that to make an oath binding , it is requisite that it refers to things lawful ; for that if the thing promised upon oath be forbidden either by the law of nature , or by the divine laws , or interdicted by the laws of men , it has no power to oblige the swearer . now the q●●●●●●n will be whether this oath does not positively 〈…〉 laws of the land , by enforcing a peer of the realm ▪ or any other free-born english-man of lower degree , to ac●use himself , with so strong and dangerous a temptation to perjury , where the choice is only this , either to forswear their religion , or lose their native priviledges and preferments , and all possibility of advancing their fortunes . a piece of severity that constrains the inward belief of the mind , which god the searcher of all hearts has resorv'd to himself . that this is an act contrary to the known laws of the land , is undoubtedly true , as is apparent from the great charter , and several statutes of the realm ; therefore the test has no power to oblige the swearer , and consequently to be repeal'd as useless . that it is against the law of god , is apparent from hence , for that there is nothing more strongly prohibited in scripture , then to ground a penal prosecution upon the enforc'd oath of the party without witness or accuser . in the next place it seems a hard case to oblige the papist to swear away his religion , before he has another provided for him by those that impose the oath . for certainly transubstantiation is no point of state : nor does the doctrine of good works make a man a good subject : and it is possible for a papist to be loyal to the supream authority , and yet believe there is a purgatory . all these are no fundamental points of christian faith , clearly set down in scripture , but infer'd from passages and glances of the text , to which the answers are believ'd as probable by the papists , as the objections against them by us ; and therefore there is no reason they should be so cruelly tested for doctrines that are but either obscurely reveal'd , or not necessarily enjoyn'd . as little reason is there to enforce this test upon the papists , when we know that many of our own perswasions would scruple to take it , and some so nice as absolutely to refuse it . at least it is very severe to compel such as are young and unlearned ( for all are not casuists that enter the parliament house , or have preferment in the kingdom ) to swear that such an opinion or doctrine is not true , which they have been always bred up to from their infancy ; especially to come bluntly upon them without any preceding instructions or endeavours to convince their understandings , only swear or else depart the kings presence and quit your imployment . but all this is done , they say to prevent the growth of popery , and secure the publick peace : as if the taking the test would avail to make a man either a better neighbour or a better subject . for experience tells us , that they who impose this test , conside never the more in those whom they have frighted to take it ; and tho by taking it they may preserve what places they have , yet is it not in it self any step to preferment . rather indeed is there less reason to conside in those that are unwillingly drawn to an outward complyance , then in those that obstinately refuse to be obliged ; since there can be no greater cause of hatred and resentment , then the remembrance of their being compell'd publickly to swear against their consciences ; unless their judgments are really chang'd , and then all penalties to enforce them are superfluous . whence it must be concluded , that the tests and all oaths of that nature , are always either absolutely pernicious or altogether unnecessary : if against the inward judgment , damnable , as being the highest degree of perjury , and spiritual murder of the soul ; if according to the internal sentiments , useless . more then this , it was the opinion of isidore , that a man ought to make no scruple to break an oath that would bind him to a dishonest and unjust action : for that the promise must needs be wicked that cannot be fulfill'd , but by making a man wicked . and what can make a man more wicked then to renounce his religion for private gain ? so that if the test , as it is an oath that would bind a man to such an unjust action , as the renouncing his religion for worldly honour or preferment , may be so easily broken , to what purpose is it kept on foot ? since it has not power enough to bind the person that takes it . and indeed , if the power of an unjust oath were so great as some would make us believe , how deeply are they perjur'd that took the covenant and engagement , yet after that were so instrumental in restoring of his late majesty of blessed memory , whose right and title to the crown they had so solemnly abjur'd . but they have their absolution from st. ambrose , who tells us , that some promises cannot be perform'd , nor some others kept without the violation of our duties both to god and man. upon these considerations we have just reason to believe it was , that our supream legislator and soveraign prince set forth his most gracious act of indulgence , thereby to free from spiritual bondage , the enflav'd consciences of his suffering subjects , groaning under the tyranny of ecclesiastical jurisdiction . therein truly resembling the divine majesty , whose vicegerent upon earth he is , while he sheds down down upon all in general , the rayes of his christian compassion , and spreads the cherubim wings of his mercy over multitudes so latety tormented with the unsanctified vexation . he has publicly declar'd it to be his aim to fix his government on such a foundation as may make his subjects happy in the enjoyment of their religion with freedom of exercise , and their property without invasion . under the reign of such a prince , whom god preserve , what cause or grounds can there be for fears or jealousies ? 't is an ill sign of obedience in subjects , when they distrust the solemn declarations of their prince : and on the other side , to deny him so small a recompence for his excess of benignity in his royal toleration , as the repeal of cruelty and injustice ; cruelty in the penal laws , and injustice in the test ; is the highest ingratitude in the world. certainly it cannot be thought but that a monarch so tender of the liberties and consciences of his subjects , must be ill at ease till he has removed those scourges of imposition that hang over their heads in such a threatning posture . and therefore since soveraign consideration thinks it meet to have them taken away , 't is a very rude piece of obstinacy , to be froward and peevish in opposition to soveraign reason . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e this was finished before the translation of lactantius , and therefore as not being borrowed from him , i thought fit to let it pass with this advertisement . the testimony of a cloud of witnesses who in their generation have testified against that horrible evil of forcing of conscience, and persecution about matters of religion ... / composed together, and translated into english, by ... william caton. caton, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the testimony of a cloud of witnesses who in their generation have testified against that horrible evil of forcing of conscience, and persecution about matters of religion ... / composed together, and translated into english, by ... william caton. caton, william, - . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england -- th century. theology, practical. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the testimony of a cloud of witnesses , who in their generation have testified against that horrible evil of forcing of conscience , and persecution about matters of religion . whose testimony may be seasonable and sutable for the present state of the wise and learned men in england , whether of the magistrates or of the clergy ; and may serve as a timely warning to them all , of defiling their hands with that horrible filthy thing , which is already in part committed in the land. composed together , and translated into english , by a living witness against the aforesaid evil , william caton . god shall perswade japheth , and he shall dwell in the tents of shem , and canaan shall be his servant , gen. . . and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb , and by the word of their testimony , and they loved not their lives unto the death , rev. . . printed in the year , . to the reader . friend , in these latter dayes , the father of our lord jesus christ hath raised up many witnesses , who faithfully bear their testimony to the eternal truth , against the many evils which superabound in the world ; but as the testimony of his faithful witnesses hath been heretofore rejected by the world ; in like manner is the testimony of his servants now , contemned and set at nought by the wise and learned of this world , who now with their power and wisdom resist the almighty , as in ages and generations past : which thing i seriously observing , it entered into my heart to manifest the testimony of some of the antients ( who heretofore have been renowed in their generations ) to my country-men , to the end , that both the wise and simple , noble and ignoble amonst them , might see and perceive , how that the almighty , even the lord of hosts , hath so far opened the understandings of many , as that he hath given them to see the evil of that horrible evil , ( viz. ) of forcing of conscience ; which noysome and hurtful thing hath been testified against by emperours and kings , and by other potentates of the earth , who by experience have found the evil of it : and likewise it hath been witnessed against by many wise and eminent learned men in their several generations , even as it is now testified against , by the servants and hand-maids of the most high , which is evidently manifested by this following treatise . it hath been long upon me to produce this to our native country , and to publish these testimonies in its own language , that its inhabitants might understand how other kingdoms and countries have been depopulated and spoyled , through their persisting in the aforesaid evil ; and that they also might be warned from running head-long in that evil course unto perdition , and thereby incur desolation upon the land , and hasten the lord's judgements upon its inhabitants . much i might have added to the further demonstrating of this evil , but being there is so much writ already concerning it , and so much testified daily against it , and that i was not desirous to make a great volumn , but chused much rather such a compendious abstract as this ; therefore have i only inserted their testimonies , without any paraphrasing upon them , which i leave unto thy just judgement . sometimes i have instanced the chronicle or history , in which they are to be found more at large , and sometime i have not ; for i believe that very few of them are extant in our english language , and that there is not one among a thousand in england that do know the chronologies , out of which they have been extracted . if that thou ( courteous reader ) do with the spirit of meekness peruse this brief treatise , then mayest thou reap of the fruit of this my labour of love , the effects of which i shall leave unto the lord , whose power i know is sufficient to make it effectual . w. c. palatine in germany , the th . of the first month , ( called march ) . the epistle to the reader . it hath been the fervent labour and travel of my youth , to seek for , and to follow after the way of righteousness and truth , and it hath ever been the very temper of my spirit until this day , to affect iustice and mercy ; and the virtues of the lord god hath delighted my soul , in what person , and among what people soever as i have seen the same , and perfect liberty and freedom in all the wayes of god inwardly and outwardly , in all the exercise of godliness ; and the virtues of the spirit of christ i have longed after , and according to that light and knowledge committed to me , these things have i followed that i might attain to the perfection thereof , to the fulfilling of my faith and patience in the enjoyment of these things , when god himself should bring them forth in the world , and give his chosen people the possession of the same as the lot of their inheritance . and for this cause and the accomplishing of this end , i have had my portion of afflictions among many other ; and i have suffered somewhat in body and spirit in my day , if possibly this may be obtained in the end ( to wit ) free , open , publick and perfect liberty in the exercise of conscience , in duty and worship to godwards , in and through the whole world ; this hath been and is the end of that long travelled iourney , which once obtained is a sufficient reward for all afflictions , and tribulations , and persecutions suffered and endured in the way ; and saving my hope , and faith , and confidence in the promises of god concerning this thing , the heart would faint , the spirit fail , and the soul be weary , and nothing could comfort my life : thus it is not onely with me , but with many more like minded , who are all travellers , mourners and disconsolate , till the lord appear bringing with him perfect liberty of conscience to all his people , now oppressed and imposed upon with grievous burdens of force and violence , concerning worship and duty to godwards , under which soul groans , spirit grieves , life mourns , and the holy seed is slain in all nations through the world ; and the soul , spirit , life , and holy seed , cryes unto god day and night , and are poured out before him , how long lord , how long , when shall it once be , that persons , peoples , and nations , shall offer service , obedience and worship to thee , according to thy teaching , and as they are led and perswaded by thy spirit ? free service and worship , and without force is that which god onely accepts , and by which he is glorified ; 't is the way of true worship , 't is the way of salvation , duty and service , in the exercise of the free spirit of the lord , in the hearts of his people , in this onely is he delighted ; and all the exercise of that concern which is by force through imposition , is neither pleasing to him , nor saving to the soul , but abomination in his sight , as iniquity which his soul hates , and a vexation of guilt unto the righteous soul : hence may it be said , wo unto imposed worship and service which is forced by outward power , it grieves and vexes the god of heaven unto wrath and indignation , and it wounds and oppresses the immortal soul unto death and damnation . surely , it is contrary to the very purpose of god in order of creation , who made and ordained mankind free from bondage , and never brought him forth into the world to be a subjected slave to the will of another man , in things temporal , much lesse in things spiritual , and relating to eternity ; and this work of imposing by force in matters of faith , worship , and duty to god , of one man upon another , or of some persons over all , is certainly an act of bondage and slavery , laid as a grievous yoak upon the necks one of another , and subjecting one another in oppression , not unto the good will of the creator , but unto the evil will of mortal perishing and sinful creature , and this differing from and contrary to , the pure and perfect order and decree of creation , which was blessed altogether ; and whatsoever is degenerated by corruption , and erred through temptation from that pure and holy order of creation , either in things wordly or divine ; is in the curse and oposition against the holy creator , and so is this thing of which i am now treating , imposition upon conscience in matters divine and temporal : force , exercised in spiritual cases , is the highest product of degeneration , and the greater degression from the holy order of creation ; for without controversie the creator himself , reserved and retained in his alone onely power , the priviledge of supremacy , in and over the inward man , in all the matters immortal , that he might be the onely lord in that case , and give spiritual law , to command , and force thereby to exercise the soul and heart , in fear , love , faith , worship , and obedience to himself , that he might be served as the lord over all , most chiefly in respect of the inward spiritual and immortal man ; this power of supremacy i say , he reserved and retained in himself in the creation to exercise over mankind , and did not commit this priviledge to any other ; wherefore without controversie , it is an usurpation of the creators rightful dominion , it is a robbing of him of his dignity and prerogative , it is an act of violence done against his soveraignty , an audacious intruding into his proper right , and a violating of the law and decree of creation , for one person , or one people , to assume to themselves , power , authority and government , over other persons and peoples , in commanding and imposing in matters spiritual , over their consciences in the worship and service of god ; and it is such an abomination against the creator both in the cause and end of it , that he will arise and take vengeance upon it , and he will ease himself of all such his adversaries . again , it is contrary to the law of love , unity , fellowship , and concord among the sons of men , by order of creation , which god appointed to be among them ; and by imposing in matters of spiritual concern , as aforesaid , that love , unity , fellowship and concord among men decreed in creation , is broken and confounded , and disannulled among them , by reason of the same , and nations and kingdoms hate and contend one with another ; neighbors and brethren , cannot agree but fall into strife one against another : kings and their subjects , rulers and their people , are in discord , debate , disobedience and rebellion one contrary to another , by reason that liberty of conscience in worship and duty to godwards is wanting in the world , and impositions and force by outward authority in that case , are prevailing and in power ; and thus the law of love , unity , and concord , decreed in creation , is violated , despised , and made voyd ; and hatred , divisions , strifes , and discords intraduced in its room , and abounds in the spirits and visible actions of the sons of men through the world , to the woful effects of killing , persecuting , and destroying one another , nation of nation , neighbours of neighbours , and kings of their subjects ; occasioned and grounded upon this thing as the foundation of the same , ( to wit ) imposing by force upon conscience in matters divine . wherefore not onely against god is this evil extended , to dishonour and disgrace him as is shewed , but against man also is this evil and mischief in the effects of it reached forth as ye have seen ; and the law of creation is violated , both in respect of creator and creature . it is in its cause and ground so evil , in its works and effects so wicked and mischievous , and in its end so provoking and damnable , and all this both in respect of god and man , that i have not yet comprehended the height and depth thereof ; though my spirit from a child hath often entered into the serious considerations of this thing , with mourning and sorrow because of it , and with testimony and abhorrance against it ; and at this hour i am a sufferer in body and spirit , because of the same ; carnal imposition upon conscience in spiritual things , wo unto it , my soul hates , and my god will plague in his season . if i should study in searching to find out , and to discribe all the evils , mischiefs and wofull inconveniences , and effects of this gulf out of which they ascend , i might make this epistle a large volumn ; but since that i have elsewhere written about this matter , i shall now contract this , with the saying of the apostle , this mistery of iniquity doth work , untill he be taken out of the way ; yea , this imposition upon conscience opposite to perfect liberty in the exercise of the same , is the onely main , material , support , prop , and defence of the kingdome of antichrist throughout the world at this day : and whomsoever as are friends hereunto , they are friends to him , and they love his wayes , and are subjects of his kingdome , and are rebellious against christ , and to his kingdome they are enemies : wherefore my heart and soul saith within me , would to god i had such a gift of demonstration , by pen or tongue , and that the same were so forcible and efficacious to awaken every soul , to an abhorrance and dislike of that spirit , principle and practice of imposition upon conscience , that there might be a total turning from the kingdome of antichrist , which consists of falshood , darkness , sin , and enmity , of bondage , oppression , and cruel impositions to the kingdome of christ jesus , which consists of truth , light and righteousness , of freedome and perfect liberty in soul and spirit ; which kingdome and government , the lord of heaven and earth will promote and exalt in the kingdomes of this world , which must become the kingdomes of the lord and of his christ , according to promise . it hath ever been my iudgment , that want of liberty and free exercise of conscience in spiritual matters , and the contrary imposed by worldly power , and it remains still with me , that this is one main cause of the woful distractions in kingdomes , of the unsetledness in states , and of many evil consequences abounding in the governments of the world ; and also the cause wherefore the god of heaven is angry and provoked against them , and for which cause he will smite and wound , confound and overturn kingdomes , powers , and authorities , even till he reign whose right it is ; who onely and alone , will rule in the free exercise of soul , spirit , and conscience , through the teachings of his own spirit : and though much opposition and great contention have been made against this in the world , in which men have striven against their own good and welfare , yet there is a day , and it hastens to come in power , when imposition upon conscience by outward worldly force in cases divine , will be banished the whole fabrick of the creation , and exiled into the pit of never-rising obscurity and darkness , and then shall the sons of men be delivered from the violence of it , and from all its miserable and mischievous consequence ; then shall the heritage of the lord rejoyce in ioy unspeakable , being delivered from the oppression under which she hath long mourned , travelled , and groaned in deep distresse ; then shall nations delight in amity one with another ; then shall neighbours rejoyce in society one among another ; and then shall kings and rulers love their subjects and people freely , and people shall obey and serve their rulers with a willing and chearful heart and mind ; hereby the god of heaven should be glorified , and all people become blessed , amity , love , unity , and concord , and the first creation order and decree , would be restored between god and his creatures , and also between man and man , in holy covenant . and this matter ( to wit ) concerning liberty of conscience in the free exercise of godliness ) hath been of these late years in great debate and contest among men in these nations , and some have been of one iudgement , and others of a contrary about this matter , and the contention hath arisen very high , even unto blood and losse of all ; and is yet remaining undetermined in the minds and spirits of many people , which ought to be resolved in every heart through conviction by sound arguments of truth and divine reason ; and men ought then to obey the same according to inward spiritual conviction ; and this case ought not to be determined by carnal weapons , forcibly compelling people in the case by the impositions of conquest , in a violent way of outward power : and since that , this is a case dubious , whether free liberty of conscience in the exercise of worship , or imposition about the same is most worthy : i therefore upon this necessity calling upon me , with my willingness to assist in such a work , would add my mite and grain of knowledge and wisdome towards the resolving of such a dubious and needful case , and have taken this opportunity and occasion thus to declare my mind , and shall leave the effect hereof to the purpose and providence of the lord , who onely is wise , to work whatsoever he will , by whomsoever he pleases ; for he never yet limited himself to any one instrument , in the bringing forth , and accomplishing his purpose ; however no man is to dispute the leadings and commands of god , nor yet to measure his obedience to him , by either objected , or real consequence , in the fruits and effects of his obedience : and this is that warrant ( to wit the leadings of god ) under the commission of which , the servants of god do act in their obedience , and disputes not the authority nor the consequence , but leaves the issue of all things to him that commands . the total sum of this matter ( to wit , liberty of conscience ) is very large , and requires multitude of words , and many arguments to unfold the truth of it , the vertue of it , and the evil causes , works and effects of the contrary ; but at this time i shall contract the sum into , & state it in this total head ; whether it is not perfect reason , justice , and equity , and that without all exceptions , that every man upon the earth , be permitted in the free exercise of conscience , without any kind of force put upon him by any man to the contrary , to follow that religion , and to live in such faith , and perform such worship to god , as he dares trust his own soul withal , and give account thereof before god in the day of dreadful judgement . my iudgement is on the affirmative part , in answer to this question , and it is my iudgement in the fear and spirit of the lord , that 't is perfectly reasonable , just and equal , that every man in the world be permitted his liberty in the free exercise of his conscience , and that without any force imposed upon him to the contrary , to follow that religion , and live in that faith , and perform that worship to god , with which he dares trust his own soul to the salvation thereof ; and the contrary is unreasonable , unjust and unequal ; and this might be amplified in a large manner upon occasion : and this is not only my iudgement alone , nor the false fancy of a single person , but it is the faith and judgement of many more , and that not of fools altogether , but of the wise , not only of some few men of our age , but of many ages past , whose principles were for the toleration of liberty in the exercise of conscience in matters spiritual , as in this smal treatise following more at large appears ; to which , for proof of this particular , and to second the truth of my iudgement , i do refer the serious and well considerate reader ; in which small piece , he may find the iudgements of divers persons asserted by their own sayings , concerning the very case of liberty of conscience ; and what esteem some kings and princes , and religious men have had of the same ; for this following piece ( to which i am now prefacing ) is no other than a certain sum of brief collections , of the sayings of emperors , kings and potentates , of former ages , contracted into this short method , for the better intelligence of all that are inquiring about this occasion ; and such is mine affection to the present contraction collected , that i wish , that all the rulers and princes of our age through the world , would seriously read , and rightly study the same , and improve it to their own advantage , in practising the sayings of their grave and wise progenitors ; and oh that they would engross this small piece in their records , and enclose it in their closets , and use the same as counsel and instruction to themselves in the premises ; the effect of it might prove happy to them , if their present practise would be answerable to the intimations of the antients . and this small piece happily ariving the harbour of my hands , through the tedious industry of the collector , and through other passages of tempestious dangers , which it lay liable unto ; i have transported it over a serious view , and am affected with it unto my commendation and approof ; first of the matter it self , and secondly of its author's pains and industry , in forming of it into this method , in which it now appears ; both of which i cannot but commend , and do also herewith recommend to the view , consideration , and instruction of every impartial reader , who must , and that every man for himself , be judge of the verity of what he reads , even by the light of the spirit of christ iesus in his own conscience ; to which this is singly committed . e. b. from my place of present restraint , the th . day of the th . month , . the testimony of a cloud of witnesses , who in their generation have testified against that horrible evil of forcing of conscience , and persecution about matters of religion . chap. i. concerning the christian religion , how it is not to be planted , established , nor defended by weapons , nor by violence ; and how it doth not admit of any forcing of conscience . a certain chancellour , speaking before the king and his council at orleans , in praise of the christian religion , said , that those that went about to establish the same by weapons , did against their calling , which is ( said he ) to suffer violence , and not to do it . herein differ we ( said chrisostomus ) from the heathen , who do force and compel by violence , but the christians they are patient and forbearing ; neither hath our religion had her beginning with weapons ( said he ) neither hath it been maintained by weapons . it is not the manner of the children of god to persecute others to death about their religion , but it hath been , and is their condition to be put to death themselves for the testimony of the truth ; moreover ( said he ) the shedding of blood about religion , is an evident token of antichrist . relig. uryl . pag. . that religion which goeth about to set up a sect , which seeketh not peace , but speaketh against all , and will suffer none equal with it , but will be alone master , and exercise lordship over the faith of all others , and with the civil powers , persecute those that are of another opinion , by shedding their blood , banishing of them , and spoiling of their goods , or with war and fighting establish their own , such do thereby shew that they are no right shepherds of the true christians , but rather wolves , caines , ishmaelites , and esauhites , whose hand is against all , and every mans hand against them . the kingdom of christ ( which is otherwise called the christian church , said a certain writer ) hath no earthly king , no temporal magistrate nor governour , for the lord alone is king in his kingdom ; as he is ordained to be the head of the church , so he hath committed that to none to govern. this king governeth with the word of his grace , the soul and conscience ; here are none compelled , for there is a spiritual freedom and willingness , there is no violence or contention ; which was held forth by the figure of solomon's temple , where no hammar , no axe , or iron instrument was to be heard , but there 's love and unity , peace and mercy among all his children . that is certain ( said one ) that all religion is vain without true godliness , and it is little matter of what opinion any man be in different points of religion , while he leadeth an ungodly life , and through that doctaine which he professeth is not bettered , but bittered against his fellow christian , and hateth , judgeth , and persecuteth him , as it often happeneth among them that seem to be religious . the states of holland , have confessed that the point of religion in the government of a land , was of great concernment ; and further they said , that they abominated forcing of conscience , otherwise then with good doctrine , good works , and intreaties . a certain turkish ambassadour , complained to the king emmanuel of portugal , of the king of spain , for his compelling by violence the moores in his dominion to the christian faith or religion , saying ; it was not lawful neither for the christians , nor yet for the mahomets to compel any man so , as that he should forsake that religion in which he had been educated ; and that he could not be silent to see such things , to the injury and desolation of people in the general , but must testifie that it was to the prejudice of mankind , and to the disadvantage of religion , &c. osorius declared , that it was neither according to the law , nor according to religion , to compel the iewes and moores to the faith ; and that none ought to determine to restrain the free mind , for he affirmed , it was not the will of christ , neither ought such things to be . anno . the turk wrote a letter to the pope calixtus the third , wherein he acknowledged , that iesus christ had been a great prophet , yet ( said he ) he hath not commanded that any should compel people by violence and weapons , to believe his law. haywardus said , that the best writers of that time did agree in one opinion , and with tertulliano , lactantio , cassiodoro , iosepho , &c. that people must inform men to imbrace religion with reason , and not compel them by violence . i have for a long season determined ( said one of the kings of france ) to reform the church , which without peace ( said he ) i cannot do , and it is impossible to reform or convert people by violence . i am king as a shepherd ( said he ) and will not shed the blood of my sheep , but will gather them through the mildness and goodness of a king , and not through the power of tyranny ; and i will give them of the reformed religion , right liberty to live and dwell free , without being examined , perplexed , molested , or compelled to any thing contrary to their conscience ; for they shall have the free exercise of their religion , &c. vide chron. vande onderg . . deel . page . and as concerning the planting , nourishing , and defending of the christian religion , that is said to be the office and work of upright and sincere teachers ; further ( saith he ) it concerns the magistrate to defend and protect the innocent and harmless people , who are persecuted , robbed , prisoned , and tyrannically used . experience hath sufficiently manifested , both in france , germany , bohemia , and in the low-countries , and elsewhere , that to make war about religion , or thereby to establish and defend it , is an absolute perverse and destructive means , and that which is totally against the true christian religion : yet notwithstanding some cry up weapons , weapons , but alas have we not seen , that weapons are stirred up against weapons ? and what is this reconciling slaughter , with slaughter , and blood with blood , but the manner and custome of the heathen ? chap. ii. concerning the true and false church ; the gospel and religion : as also shewing the insufficiency of carnal weapons in spiritual matters . the church that is dispersed through the world , hath the name of christ her head , and is strengthened not with resisting , but with suffering and patience ; for the gospel in the primitive church , was not preached with swords and an armed hand , but with exhortation and perswasion , hist. eccl. lib. chap. . barnardus said , the church must not persecute as wolves , but be persecuted , like as the sheep are of the wolves ; and in this calamity of the world , they stand as palm-trees through the power of god , and grow and increase ; so that some have esteemed sanguis martirum est semen ecclesiae , ( i. e. ) the blood of the martyrs to be the seed of the church ; for ( said he ) as one was put to death , there came ten in his stead . luther said , that the hypocrites church was to be known by its manners , whose image and figure was esau , yet she boasted of god , and would be accounted his church , but lived wholly according to the world. further ( said he ) the true church is not defended by a fleshly arm , which wicked bishops especially use and cry unto , thaesau . pag. . as heretofore , he that was born after the flesh , persecuted him that was born after the spirit , even so is it now , &c. consider these words of paul ( said castellio ) ishmael that was born after the flesh , persecuted isaac who was born after the spirit ; even so now do the fleshly persecute the spiritual ; but abell did not persecure cain , nor lot the sodomites , nor david saul , nor the true prophets the false , nor christ and his apostles the scribes and pharesees , although some of them might have done it , yet nevertheless they did it not . so is it at this day , though the number of the righteous be but smal , who are persecuted of the wicked , yet sometimes they might injury their persecutors , but they are so far from doing that , that they are rather helpful to them , and do seek their salvation . the false church is grounded more upon men then upon christ , and she persecuteth those that live righteously according to the word of god , and such as reprove her for her failings . damascenus said , that the gospel had been preached in all the world , but did not conquer its opposers with weapons , arms , or fighting , but a few unlearned , confounded the wise ones of the world. oh ( said boudaert ) that the bishops were so well experienced in the word of god , that they would rather with reason seek to bring them that go astray to the right way , then to compell them by corporal punishment to adhere unto their elect. it is impossible ( said luther ) that the church of christ should be , or should stand without bloodsheding , for the devil who is an enemy of god's church , is also a lyar and a murtherer , yet the church hath alwayes increased in blood , said he ; in the colloq . sanguine mundata est ecclesia , sanguine cepit sanguine succrevit , sanguine finis erit . ian monliu , the bishop of valence affirmed , that it was an error to molest the publick peace with weapons , under pretence of religion ; a thing ( saith he ) which hath been alwayes abhorred by the antients . for wars and compulsary punishments , have never been the means to bring to unity ; for wars and cruelty tend to the destroying both of body and soul , even of those , who peradventure might otherwise have been gained through love and gentleness , for that counsel which tends to cruelty is worse then the desease ; yet notwithstanding , it is the manner of such bishops to plead for weapons as have lost the spiritual sword of peter , and therefore ( said he ) do they now make that sword their defence , which he drew against the servant of the high priest. chron. vande rel. uriih . pag. , . anno . the states of holland said , that this they observed , finding it by true experience , ( viz. ) dat gewelt ende wapenen luttel helpen tot verbreijdinghe ende behoudenisse der religien ( i. e. ) that violence and weapons availed little in spreading , and maintaining religion ; and further said they , as we would not have that men should do violence to our consciences , neither will we do violence to the consciences of others ; for we are not to do that to another , which we would not have another to do unto us . the prince of orange said , we are not so unexperienced in the doctrine of the christian religion , as that we do not know , that all those tyes of conscience wreathed or turned of men , are to no purpose to bind man before god : people should not think it strange , nor therefore take up arms ( said he ) because that many of the inhabitants of this country are become of another opinion , and simply declare themselves , yea against the will of the magistrates , which thing the histories do testifie not to be new , but that such differences have been in the world in many monarchies heretofore . to the same purpose did the states of holland testifie , ( viz. ) how that difference in doctrine was not strange in the church , but said they , it is better rectified through forbearance , then through devision , inde apolog. . fol. . chap. iii. concerning cruel lawes against hereticks , how the bishops and clergy heretofore have been the cause of them ; who are the cause of tumults ; the necessity of just liberty , and the good effect thereof . in the year . the pope palagius instituted first of all , that hereticks and apostates should be forced by external compulsion , &c. clemens the fifth made lawes that hereticks should be burned ; gerandus naviomagus sheweth , how that the laws for putting of hereticks to death , came not by the free will of the emperours , but through the earnest importuning of blood-thirsty bishops , whose constant recourse was a burthen to the emperours , so that finally they obtained what they desired ; but when the clergy could not prevail with one emperour , they excluded him out of italy , excommunicated him , brought him in suspition , freed the subjects from the oath , and stirred them up against the power ; and thus have the clergy handled when they could not have their wills . and it might be plenteously manifested out of the histories , how that it hath been blood-thirsty bishops with others of the clergy , that have provoked kings , and the potentates of the earth to cruelty , and who have counselled them to make bloody lawes , like the bishop nestorius , who in his sermon spoke unto the emperour and said , o emperour give me a land cleansed of hereticks , and i will give thee heaven ; help me against the hereticks , and i will help thee to subdue the persians thy enemies , &c. yet it doth not appear that upright and sincere teachers have sought the defence or help of the emperours or kings against hereticks , but it is evident that banishing and persecuting to death about religion , came not from the example of the righteous , but rather from the heathen , and from arius , nestorius , palagius , and their proselytes . there was a certain man that complained unto the prince of orange , saying , that it was sufficiently known , that since the dayes of the apostles , that hurtful and noisom plague hath reigned and had the dominion in the church , ( viz. ) that the greatest part of the divines and clergy , have assumed more authority and power to themselves ( yea and have taken it by force ) then ever god the father gave them ; and the aforesaid prince observed , how they sought to usurp authority over the conscience , and to bring people in subjection to their lawes and institutions . there are some teachers ( said a certain wise man ) that are exceeding cruel , angry , passionate , full of covetousness and pride , who judge and reject all things but their own , and would have such punished and put to death as do not agree with them , and conform unto them ; another sort there are that are meek , patient , gentle and humble , who bear all things , and hope all things , and will compel none to their religion . brassius said , that they that have a right evangelical doctrine and faith , persecute none , but are persecuted themselves ; 't is true paul said , we should reject a heretick after the first and second admonition ; but he said not , that we should banish him out of the city or country . consider once , said adrianus , and see if the hereticks have not alwayes persecuted the righteous ; but where do you find that false prophets and false teachers have been persecuted of the world , which doth alwayes love that which belongs to it , and vilifie , curse , kill and murder that which christ hath chosen ; for that which he chuseth is not of the world : and now is christ and his disciples ( said he ) esteemed of the world as hereticks , seducers , uprore-makers ; and the seducers , hereticks , and they that rise up against the lord , and his anointed , they are by the world called christians . the true christians have been alwayes persecuted of the world , not because they have deserved it , but because they have not been conformable to their false doctrines , false sacraments , their vanity and superstition . it is the manner of the false teachers ( said a certain writer ) to cry out against those that teach any thing contrary to them ; for say they , they make tumults among the people ; and this with other things they charge upon those that reprove them , when they themselves are the most tumultuous ; for if they did not stir up the magistrates and people to persecution and shedding of blood , there would not be such tumults among the people . moreover the contention and tumults that are among men , proceed not from them that serve god in the exercise of their religion according to their conscience , but from such as will not suffer that , but with violence will usurp authority over the faith of others . the histories do testifie , how that the mallady wherewith several emperours , kings , and princes have been perplexed , could nor be cured , nor perfect peace and rest injoyed , nor true obedience and subjection maintained to magistracy , except they gave liberty of conscience to their subjects ; wherefore some of them suffered themselves to be thereunto perswaded by their subjects . anno . in the land of cleave , there was a notable reformation and tolleration in religion ; for there it was decreed , that from henceforth , no man should be adjudged unfit for places of office , for his different judgement in religion ; which did occasion much trust and peace , and did free the people from all persecution in spiritual matters . it hath been formerly said ▪ that when a prince cometh so far , that between two parties he defendeth one party with weapons , and oppresseth the other with weapons , that then he getteth the name of a tyrant , and robbeth the land of its welfare , and through his own power weakeneth his own might , and maketh the same open for an enemy . merck-tyck : page . chap. iv. the evil effects of forcing of the conscience ; what it is ; their folly shewn , that would have the magistrates to force people ; how the old fathers and antient christians heretofore have witnessed against it ; and what other means they used . this do most histories testifie ( viz. ) that the distractions , uproars , and many more inconveniences have been chiefly occasioned through severe proclamations , cruel proceedings , and persecution about matters of religion , and forcing of conscience , which is plenteously to be found in several chronicles ; but especially in the chronicles of the overthrow of the tyrants , printed at hoorn , in north holland , anno . forcing of conscience is said to be this ( to wit ) when any compels men to do any thing which is contrary to their conscience , or to abstain from such exercises as they in conscience esteem to be profitable and necessary to their salvation ; one of these two is that which is commonly called forcing of conscience , against which the martyrs since the dayes of the apostles have testified , and have manifested it clearly to be an unfitting thing , as might be shewn at large out of histories , books of martyrs , apologies , remonstrations , &c. maximillian the emperor , told hendricus the king of france , that there was no sin so great ( in his account ) as to do violence to the conscience ; and that those that went about to conquer the same , thinking to gain heaven , did often lose that they had upon earth . it is well known , that many are of opinion , that it is very necessary that the magistrate compel by force and violence the unwilling to the faith , to the end that they may come of themselves as they imagine : but said erasmus , most men are so disposed , that they will rather be led then compelled , and that by intreaties more may be obtained than through cruelties . those that are ignorant of the drawings of the father ( said a wise man ) would have magistrates to draw by violence ; such , as do not only remain ignorant of the drawings of the father , but also others that are in the truth , they would have drawn to their dead inventions , as if they would conform so soon as they are punished : but i suppose ( saith he ) that those that would otherwise come of themselves voluntarily , through punishments are terrified away ; as the fish in the water that come voluntarily to the bait and net , but when people would compel them , they fly . the truth of this , can geneva , savoy , and other places witnesse , said the author . chrisostomus said , that in heavenly matters , people must use no violence ; for saith he , these that use violence , estrange men most of all from their religion ; instancing an example in west-india , of the spaniards tormenting a casique or lord , ( so called ) and one of the clergy seeking by his preaching to convert him to the faith , told him of heaven and hell , &c. then he asked the clergy-man , where he and the spaniards should be ? he said in heaven ; then said the other , let me continue in hell , not being willing to be with such cruel people : bartolomeus delas casas lactantius dixit , non est opus vi et injura quia religio cogi non potest ; verbis potius quam verberibus ves agenda est , ut sit voluntas . nihil est enim tam voluntarium quam religio , in quasi animus sacrificantis aversus est , jam sublata , jam nulla est . augustinus said , he did not approve of the emperors compelling any by violence , contrary to their conscience ; and he with chrisostomus , together with several others of the antient writers , inferred from the th . of matthew , that men should do no violence to hereticks neitheir compel any to the free faith , seeing god would have a willing unforced heart . chron. van de urijh . der , rel. . deel , pag. . there were some in a certain national synod , that did much endeavour to stir up the civil powers to compel all people by fines , or other politick punishments , to come to hear the sermon ; but others bare testimony against such politick corrections , as to punish by fines , imprisonments , &c. which they esteem unfitting to be introduced into the church , being they were inconsistant with the christian long-suffering and meekness , and for the which they had no example neither in the old nor new testament . anno . calvin said , that the apostle gave to understand , that to exercise authority over ones faith , was in no wise just nor tolerable ; yea , ( saith he ) it is tyranny in the church , for faith ought to be free from all subjection of men . though some are yet of that opinion , that it is lawful for the magistrates to compel people contrary to their consciences , by corporal punishments , yea even to the death , for to make them keep silent , or confess things contrary to their minds : yet most of the old fathers have alledged , that it hath not been lawful for the magistrates to touch the conscience , as to force it in matters of religion . merck-teyck . chap. . deel . pag. . the antient christians did not approve of any external compulsion , but only by intreating , by good living , with exhortations , doctrins , informations and endeavours , they laboured to convince people , and through the word of truth , they sought to bring people captive so under the obedience of christ ; and if the like means now do not prevail , then no humane invention through doing violence will , for that will rather make them worse , as heretofore it hath done . the most violence that can be done by man , cannot compel or change the vain infidelity of the mind ; how should that then possibly move or alter them , that are unmoveably established in the eternal truth , who will not in any wise be brought to receive things that are damnable , nor to forsake that which they esteem to be necessary to their salvation . chap. v. a chancellours testimony . their folly that would force men , and the fruits thereof . how iust liberty would preserve unity . and how they that force others , would not be forced . tthe chancellour of france said in the great assembly of the three states before the king , first , that the absurdity of the romish church was the cause of heresie . secondly , that evil remedies had strengthened the same . thirdly , that the weapons of love , prayer , and information with the word of god , were fit for such a battle . fourthly , that a good life preached more than words . fifthly , that the sword could do little against the spirit , except it was to undoe both body and soul. in the comm. fol. . are they not carnal and violent ishmaelites ( said one ) who would violently force rational men ( often to humane and damnable opinions ) as horses and mules , and not with kindness intreat , and only instruct with the truth , and invite to the needful spiritual knowledge of the truth , and true worship , as reasonable and free men . humani juris et naturalis potestatis est unicuique , quod putaverit colere , nec alij prodest aut obest alterius religio ; sed nec religionis est cogere religionem que sponte non vi suscipi debeat . erasmus said , the divines not relying upon that power wherewith they ought to be armed , they make violence their refuge , as if men might be compelled to believe otherwise than their opinion . when several of the priests in the low-country , requested of the prince and states , that they would introduce ordinances and disciplin according to their opinions ; but the prince and the states rejected their requests , esteeming them prejuditial both to religion and policy , when they observed the divers opinions that were among the people , concluding it was the best ( as many politicians have done ) to preserve unity among the people , to give liberty at all , and to compel none , anno . edict . fol. . it hath also been the judgement of many , that forcing of conscience hath made many hipocrites , but no true servants of god : therefore ought men to strive with the word and disputation , and to conquer with reason , said augustinus , least that we make them hypocritically catholicks , whom before we have known to be manifest hereticks . anno . the chronicles do shew , how that they that are , and have been but seemingly religious , do commonly joyn themselves to that religion or sect which is the uppermost , whereby they may live in ease , honour and fulness , and get profit and preferment , through places and offices ; instancing how that in england , there were them in the dayes of king hendrick and edward , that shewed themselves to be protestants ; and in the dayes of queen mary papists , and persecuted others to death , and afterwards in the dayes of queen elizabeth , got again in the lap of the protestant church , and then persecuted the papists ; vide the second part of the chronicle of the overthrow of tyrants , pag. . arennius affirmed , that all forcing of conscience , though it was but a forbidding of the exercise which is esteemed by one or another to be necessary to salvation , was in no wise right nor fitting : he also affirmed , that through diversities of religions , the kingdom should not be brought into any disturbance . the antient reformed protestants , termed that forcing of conscience , when they were constrained to leave off the exercise of their religion , saying , car nous privant de nostre religion , on nous tiendroit en une continuele mort corporelle & spirituelle . ( i. e. ) for to deprive us of our religion , is to keep us in a perpetual corporal and spiritual death . adding thereunto , how that they would rather be put to death , than be bereaved of the exercise of their religion , &c. many have testified , and many do testifie , that forcing of conscience is a wicked destructive means , both for soul and body , against which the martyrs that have suffered have universally born testimony . now ( said a certain wise man ) let these consider , who do so much stir up the powers of the earth to force free minds against their consciences , whether they would be forced by violence against their conscience , to imbrace the popes faith of rome , with all its superstitions , or that which is worse , and that upon pain of death : let such then judge ( said he ) how hard it is to be forced against ones conscience to any form of worship , which is not in the spirit and truth , &c. if any durst speak freely what he beleiveth , and thinketh in his heart ( saith castellio ) he should say that he thinketh , and believeth that such forcers are absolute tyrants ; and that whereunto they press him is not good : and if formerly he had any inclination thereunto , that he through such violence cometh wholly to abhor it . the antient protestants testified , that that religion which was defended with cruelty , was not grounded upon the word of god. chap. vi. a shift of the popes ; a humane invention ; how the spiritual kingdome , and true church , subsisteth and is defended by spiritual weapons ; and how persecution answereth not the end of persecutors . the history sheweth , how that this is one of the popes maxim's , ( viz. ) that when he sees the spiritual weapons are not sufficient for him , then doth he fly unto the carnal , therewith to help himself : int duii●se , . and others have been and are of that opinion , that religion could not be preserved without the magistrates sword , therefore understood they , that they were to be cryed unto for help , as many do now . but ireneus philaletius said , that this was but a humane invention of the natural understanding , which would gladly change the nature of the church of christ ; but it is in vain said he . the states of holland said , that the true ministers of christ , who did perfectly trust in the lord , had no external sword , nither did they call unto any civill power for protection ; but they used the sword of the spirit , which is the living word of god , with which they defended the church , &c. vide urede handel van colen , pag. . barnardus said , that the kindome of christ was spiritul , and as it was builded by spiritual vertues , so was it spread , preserved , and established with spiritual weapons ; for its enemies were and are spiritual , eph. . . & . . lactantius said , if you will with blood , with evil , and with torments defend the worship , it shall not thereby be defended , but polluted , lib. . chap. . the apostles had not the assistance of emperours , kings , princes , nor lords ; but had even the whole world against them , ( said a certain wise man ) wherefore how can this stirring up , and instigating of magistrates be evangelical , or according to the gospel ? or how can this work of tumultuous teachers , bring honour to gods word and his truth ? who hath heretofore defended the church of christ , was it defended by pilate ? or was the church of the apostles no church ? what coercive power or outward protection had they ? or what external power , or outward defence had their church in the beginning ? and cannot the true church now subsist , with that which she had in the begining ? and it is evident , that many who have suffered much persecution for the exercise of their conscience , have been thereby strengthened , and have therein multiplyed ; therefore it is apparent , that the fruit of persecuting to death in matters of religion , is wholly contrary to the determination of persecutors . castellius said , that paul strove with spiritual weapons , and thereby overcame hundreds ; but we ( alas said he ) are together by hundreds to put to death one single man , and appear for christ with fleshly weapons , to the end that people might understand , that we are stripped of the spiritual weapons , and will have a fleshly christ. but seeing the apostles , who planted the church were satisfied with their spiritual weapons ; it is then evident , that they who make use of carnal weapons , confide not sufficiently in the spiritual , which they would confide in no doubt if they had them , seeing they are alsufficient , as shall appear at the coming of the lord ; who will conquer antichrist his greatest enemy , with no other weapon , then with the sword of his mouth . constantinus the emperour said , that it was enough that he preserved the unity of the faith , that he might be excusable before the judgement seat of god , and that he would leave every one to his own understanding , according to the account he will give before the judgement seat of christ ; hereto may we stir up people ( said he ) not compel them , beseech them to come into the unity of the christians ; but to do violence to them , we will not in no wise . [ nota ] herein was constantinus much commended , because that he tollerated every one to believe , and to serve god as he was perswaded in his own heart , esteeming his gentleness and mercy more available , then severe proclamations ; and in this particular he was not deceived , sabast. frank. chron. fol. . the christian religion ( said the states of holland ) is a great mistery , for the furtherance of which god doth not make use of wicked souldiers , nor of bow , nor of sword , but his spirit , and the shepherds that are sent by him ; further they said it was not their intention to compell any to their religion , &c. chap. vii . how the inquisitioners and clergy have stirred up the powers to persecute ; and what fair pretences persecutors have had ; how dangerous it is to root out the tares before the time ; and wherein the ancient protestants have been more noble than the clergy now . it is a common thing with many , to accuse those with troubling of the churches peace , and with disturbing of the publick peace , ( said a certain wise man ) who teach otherwise than the church , or who speak any thing against the clergy , or dispute with any of their restless priests , or hold their meetings apart , though it be in all civility and stilness . in like manner hath the inquisitioners and the clergy ( said he ) stirred up the emperour , the king of spain and of france , to terrible persecution , laying it upon their consciences to quit themselves severely against the hereticks , if they would escape the lords reproof , though most of their subjects and land should perish . and when the clergy had prevailed with them , then they declared in their proclamations and edicts , that their intent was onely the glory of god , and the salvation of the hereticks souls , and to prevent the peoples being drawn to any cursed error or sect , but that they should continue in subjection , and in the old observations of the mother , the h. church , and h. christians faith and sacraments , as appears from their proclamations , annis . , , , . erasmus said , how that sometime it cometh to passe , that those who with more fury , then with good understanding carry on matters , do sometime not only root out the wheat with the tares ( which christ hath forbidden ) but also in place of rootting out the tares do root out the wheat ; seeing they judge before they have understanding , or will make that odious , which is well spoken by perverting of it ; and they will have that to be a zeal for religion , and a detesting of heresie , when it is the onely destroying of godliness and unity . chron. van de rel. urijh . deel , pag. . augustinus said , some disturbed the peace of the church , while they went about to root out the tares before the time ; and through this error of blindness ( said he ) are they themselves seperated so much the more from being united unto christ. retnaldus testified , that he who with imprisoning and persecuting seeketh to spread the gospel , and greaseth his hands with blood , shall much rather be looked upon for a wild hunter , then a preacher , or a defender of the christian religion . erasmus said , that the world had common lawes for to punish offenders ; but the christian meeknesse must rather use diligence to reform men , then to judge them . in the begining of reformation ( saith the chron. ) the church gloried of the truths weapons , and desired that those that had any thing to say concerning their doctrine , should freely reprove them , and they would defend the same with the holy scripture ; exhorting people in their pulpits , and freely proffering to confer or dispute with any , and every one had then freedome . but now will not the clergy ( said the same author ) be spoken against , who sit at ease in pride , idleness , and fulness ; and if any do speak against them , they will so much as in them lie , cause such to suffer , charging them with breaking the peace of the church , or the peace of the kingdome ; and with rayling words , will evade entering into a sober discourse , thereby manifesting the badness of their cause , and the guiltiness of their conscience ; and then seek to defend themselves more by the power of the magistrate , then with gods word and godly testimony ; and in the mean time prejudice others , by procuring their own rest and peace ; but surely this is neither just , right , nor equal . further ( saith he ) in the mean time those men would have a triumphant church upon the earth , but no suffering ; neither will they suffer any trouble , difficulty , or opposition , but do make the magistrate believe , that such things incurr trouble , uproar , disturbance , &c. yet nevertheless some of the clergy themselves have put forth sundry treatises , wherein they shewed how that the peace and welfare of the land might be preserved , though several religions in the land were tollerated . quand à la permission de s'assembler es temples , sire , aucunc division & tumulte ne'n adviendra entre vous subjects , mais bien un repos public & extinction de toute sedition populaire . as touching the permitting the assembling together in temples , no manner of division or tumult can from hence arise among your subjects , but rather a publick rest and extinguishing of all popular sedition . for the chronicle also sheweth , how that the disturbance and trouble cometh not through those that live orderly according to their conscience and the word of god , and accordingly exercise their religion in stilness , but through those who will not suffer this , nor bear others , but seek to have the preheminence , and to exercise lordship over others , and therefore do they raise up persecution . but the states of holland testified , dat waer vervolginghen ziju , datter daer al in roere is , maer waer geen en sijn al sijnder verscheijden religien , dat daer alle saelren stilder sijn , so ●olr in onse vijden is bevonden , ( i. e. ) that where there was persecution , there was all in distraction ; but where there was none ( though there were several religions ) there all things were the quieter ; as have been evident in our dayes , said they . vide urede handel van coln . fol. . chap. viii . concerning obedience to magistrates ; the vanity and evil of forcing of conscience ; certain mixims asserted by many wise men , how violence becometh not the ministers of the gospel , neither hath christ nor his apostles taught it , nor practised it . calvin said , that those that are set over us must be obeyed , if that the command of god be not thereby disobeyed , but if they lead us from obedience to god , and presumptuously strive against the lord , then must they not be regarded ( said he ) to the end that god with his authority may retain the preheminence . the states of holland , testified , that subjects were not obliged in all things , whether right or unright , to be subject to their princes . int plac . anno . . deel . fol. . prince of orange being commanded by the king , when he departed out of zealand , to put many sober people to death , who were suspected concerning their religion , but therein he would not obey the king , knowing he could not do it with a good conscience , and also being assured , that it was better to obey god than man. moreover ( said a certain writer ) the truth with sad experience hath learned us , and plainly shewn us , that forcing of conscience and persecuting about religion is not onely in vain , but a direct contrary means , and a cause of sects and disturbances , and of many evils , as the chroncles of germany , france and the low countryes , do abundantly testifie . the states of holland also affirmed , that it was not possible to find out means of any good and certain peace , otherwise then by tollerating more then one religion . experientia satis edocti sumus , ferrum , flammas , exilum , proscriptiones , irritasse potius , quam sannasse morbum menti inhaerentem . the king of france was moved with great zeal ( said a certain bishop ) to ordain great torment and punishment for the hereticks , thinking thereby to root out their opinion , and to unite the people together in one opinion ; but in his determination ( saith he ) he was deceived ; so was also duke d'alba , who for five or six years together , endeavoured with exceeding great tyranny , to maintain the law of the king in the low-countryes . in het . . van de standt der rel. fol. . now notwithstanding the great persecution that is and hath been about religion , these following maximes are asserted and owned by most men ; . that faith is the gift of god. . that relgion ought to be free . . that no religion by violence can be imprinted in the heart . . that forcing maketh men hypocrites . . that it is impossible to preserve the land in peace , without giving liberty for the free exercise of religion . . that in one land or city , there may be well more religions than one . . that it is a seed of contention and uproar among the people , when men contrary to promise , and to what they ought , resist one another in their religion . . and that prohibiting the free exercise of religion , tendeth openly or manifestly to the destruction of men , which happeneth , when one party with violence seeketh to root out anothers religion . nevertheless ( said the author ) it is evident , that many foolish zealots will obstinatly run on in that destructive path of forcing conscience , and thereby bereave others of the exercise of their religion . fredericus the king of bohemia said , that in these last times there were many different opinions risen among men in matters of faith and religion , but according to what is contained in the scripture , and according to the setled foundation of doctrine ( said he ) men will not be urged , compelled or forced in their conscience ; for when such forcing hath been attempted , it hath had an evil end ; and in the chiefest kingdoms and provinces , there hath been a remarkable change made ; for through this means , cities come to be more ruined than benefitted . vide his declaration printed in the hagne , anno . it doth in no wise become the preachers of the gospel , and ministers of the new-testament , to deal in matters of faith by force , violence and tyranny ( said a wise man ) or thereunto to help , counsel , or advise ; but with prayer , with the word of god , and with the sword of the spirit . lambertus testified , saying , truly things are not well , neither do men right , when they go about to remove hereticks and errors with weapons ; for the truth and certainty of the christian doctrin , ought not to depend upon the uncertain effects of war : therefore hath neither christ himself nor his apostles , taught men to take up armes against them that were reprobated from the faith , as if that were an external means for to rout out errors , for the receiving or spreading of religion , which is through fear of weapons , is more like unto mahometisme , than unto the christian religion . stephanus the king of poland said , our desire is , that all the cities and inhabitants did praise one god unanimously ; but it hath been declared , that in the latter dayes offences shall come ; therefore will not we compel any to believe ( said he ) but will keep peace and concord among the contentious , that contend about religion , and defend every one in his religion . chronicle of the tyrants , second p. pag. . chap. ix . how iudas proselytes now do follow his footsteps ; how confusion and uproar is not occasioned in a land through a just toleration , but rather through want of it ; and how none ought to be banished about religion . the histories sheweth , how that some of the clergy hath said , that the princes ought to kiss the son , and to use their power for to preserve and defend religion against all her enemies , though their lands should therefore be spoyled : but the son of god hath never taught any man so to kiss him , though he was so unkindly kissed of iudas , as many betrayers do yet in his members ; yet notwithstanding christ nor his apostles did not seek to deliver iudas over to the magistrates , but iudas sought to deliver christ over to them : and so do iudas children at this day , deliver the true christians ( whom they falsly call hereticks ) into the hands of the earthly powers . and though some say , that people of different opinions , cannot live together in a kingdom without continual contention ; and therefore say they , must that be prevented with fire and sword. but what though there be vertue and filthiness in a kingdom , good and bad men , which are one contrary to the other , one must not therefore ( said a wise man ) to prevent it , bring a whole kingdom or land into confusion , by stirring up the people one against another . again , the true church ( said he ) hath never helped her self with persecution , neither doth she use any other sword than god's word , which she having and keeping the commands of god , prepareth her self for to bear the cross , and to suffer persecution , but not to bring suffering upon others . moreover it is evident , that in dutchland , poland , and in the low-countryes , more religions than one are suffered , and yet there are not continual uproars and tumults , as some imagine such toleration would occasion in a kingdom ; therefore may we conclude , that it is not the toleration of more religions than one , which produceth uproar in a kingdom , but rather the untowardness and perverseness of them that seek to obstruct this toleration . camerarius said , that it was groundless and irrational to say , that diversities of opinions in matters of religion do disturb the polity ; but on the contrary , the polity is disturbed , when any man with the liberty of his opinion is not contented , but will molest and trouble others . but some say , that every one in matters of faith , are bound to obey the magistrates under whom they live , and to follow them , and that they are worthy of punishment who do it not . but let such know ( saith the author ) that they do not only hereby condemn the first reformed protestants , but also the true prophets and apostles , yea , christ himself , and all the martyrs , and so justifie their persecutors and murderers ; if not , then may not the magistrates now , oppress a church , or a religion , as many of the disorderly clergy would gladly see ( said he ) and make the magistrates believe . and it is to be observed , how that among the jews there were many sects , as the pharisees , esseans , galileans , saduces , samaritans , &c. who retained many unwholsome opinions , yet they were not so persecuted , as now the false christians do persecute one another . the history sheweth , how that it hath been sufficiently proved , that none ought to banish any about religion that payed tribute ; yea , that the peaceable jews and heathen ought not to be banished out of the land where they were born ; for that which they have , they possess through that right which is common to all nations ; and to banish people , is said to be directly contrary to the law of nature , and to the commands of love ; for kings and princes so well as others , ought to do unto others as they would have others to do unto them , and if they would not be banished out of their dominions , then should not they banish others ; and innocency becometh them as well as others , who ought to do evil to no man. les princes qui se sont gouvernez par douceur & clemence conjointe a iustice , & qui ont use de moderation & debonnairete en vers leurs subjets ont tousjours grandement prosperè & longuement regne . mais au contraire , les princes cruels , iniques , perfides & oppresseurs de leurs subjets , sont incontinent tombez eux & leur estat en peril ●● en totale ruine , &c. par . n. m. anno . those princes that have ruled by gentleness and clemency added to justice , and have exercised moderation and meekness towards their subjects alwayes , greatly prospered and reigned long . but on the contrary , those princes that have been cruel , unjust , perfidious and oppressors of their subjects , have soon faln , they and their estate into danger , or total ruin , n. m. . chap. x. the severity of a popish synode ; the disposition of the right christians ; how heresie is not slain through the death of hereticks ; and the evil consequence of the laws , which tend to the putting of hereticks to death . in a general synod holden at rome , it was forbidden men to hold any fellowship with those they termed enemies of religion , neither were they in any thing to assist them , which might tend to the preserving of their life , and great things were promised them that persecuted such , and inflicted punishment to the utmost upon them . vide merula , pag. . but the true christians persecute no man about religion , socrat. lib. . chap. . for the right christians did alwayes deal mercifully with them that were hereticks indeed , and not tyrannically by shedding of their blood ; but hereticks and infidels have been alwayes cruel towards the christians , with persecuting of them to death . when men with the truth ( said one ) slayeth the lies of hereticks , then their bodies remain alive , and their souls come to be cured ; but when men put hereticks to death , they do not slay the heresie , but rather both body and soul. veritus said , seeing christ is a lamb , whom you profess to be your head and captain , then it behoveth you to be sheep , and to use the same weapons which he made use of , for he will not be a shepherd of wolves , and wild beasts , but only of sheep ; wherefore if you lose the nature of sheep ( said he ) and be changed into wolves or wild beasts , and use fleshly weapons , then will you exclude your selves out of his calling , and forsake his banner , and then will he not be your captain . often doth chrisostomus shew , how that the true christians may not put any heretick to death , nor with violence force him to the faith ; manifesting how it is against the scripture , reason and equity , that people should put men to death because of their opinion or ignorance , who otherwise are of a good life and conversation . aug. diligite homines , interficite errores , sine sevitia pro veritate certate . where hast thou ever read in thy dayes ( said menno ) in the writings of the apostles , that christ or the apostles ever cryed out to the magistrates for their power , against them that would not hear their doctrin , nor obey their words ? i know certainly said he , that where the magistrate shall banish with the sword , there is not the right knowledge , spiritual word , nor church of christ ; 't is invocare brachium seculare . it is not christian-like but tyrannical , said d. philipsen , to banish and persecute people about faith and religion , and they that so do , are certainly of the pharisaical generation to whom stephen said , you stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears , you do alwayes resist the holy ghost , acts . , . when a king or a prince giveth forth a law , by virtue of which murderers are to be put to death , then all the people that own and obey this law , will do their best in helping to put them death , whom they know assuredly to be murderers ; even so ( said a certain writer ) when the bishops , presbyters , or any other writeth or publisheth , that people ought to put hereticks to death , then must it needs follow ( said he ) that the papists shall do their best to put the protestants to death , and the protestants the papists , the episcopal men the presbyterians , and the presbyterians the episcopal men ; for every sect supposeth themselves to be the right believers , and the rest they esteem to be hereticks ; and then should mannasseh with ephraim , and ephraim with mannasseh , rise up against the jews , yet should not the wrath of the lord be appeased . castellius testified , how that some of the divines ( so called ) when they medled with hereticks , they judged them all to be apostates , false prophets , and blasphemers , to the end , that thereby they might the more vilifie and oppresse those that differed from them ; which ( saith he ) hath been the manner of all scribes and pharisees . but who can produce a law out of the holy scripture , that requires hereticks to be put to death ? 't is true ( said he ) there are laws against blasphemers ; but what is this to the purpose , except it can be proved that hereticks are blasphemers ? for who will believe that all these who at this day are crlled hereticks , are blasphemers and ungodly men ? who are so foolish as to believe the pope ( who judgeth the protestants to be blasphemers , because they differ from him in point of the sacrament ) that they therefore are blasphemers ? and that the baptists are blasphemers , because they differ from him in their baptism . aeontius said , it cannot be that a heretick should reject his errour when he will , except that some reason constrain him thereunto ; wherefore then said he , do you trouble such a miserable man , for to make him lie , and to provoke him more and more to sin against the lord ? surely men cannot deny but that it is an invention of satan ( said he ) for to force the servants of god to deny christ for fear of punishment : further ( said he ) people must seek to conquer such men , not through threatnings , but it must be through the power of certain testimonies and living manifestations . chap. xi . the popes counsel and intreaty ; the sad effects of cruel proclamations ; how inconsistant it is with the life of christ to persecute ; under what pretence the true believers have suffered ; and how persecution cannot effect the thing for which it is intended . heresie is a greek word , and signifieth a sect or an opinion , and they that did stiff-neckedly cleave unto evil sects were called by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the latines pertinaces , and by us are they called hereticks . now it is an easie matter to accuse a man of being a heretick , and of retaining opinions contrary to his conscience ; but it is a difficult thing , sufficiently to prove and manifest the same ; for all the martyrs that have suffered for the name of christ , have been accused with being hereticks , even as the innocent lamb 's of christ that suffer now for his names sake , are accused at this day . pope paul the third , counselled and intreated the emperour charles , and king ferdinandus , to compel the protestants to forsake their error . anno . there can be no greater suffering and sorrow ( said a certain wise man ) brought upon such as fear the lord , than there may by compelling them through punishment , to do that which is against their conscience , or to leave off such an exercise as they are perswaded in their conscience is necessary to their salvation . the history do shew , how that in the low-countries , there were betwixt eighteen and nineteen thousand men put to death , upon their resisting of the inquisition , being brought into those parts . moreover , the chronicle testifieth , that in the dayes of charles the emperor , there were above fifty thousand men put to death by proclamations ; some proclamations did forbid upon pain of death , peoples holding any fellowship with them that fled , or were banished about religion , or of assisting them with money or provision ; yea , one was hanged ( saith the chronicle ) because he entertained his own son , merck-tyck . pag. . now , if any emperor , king , prince , or superiours , should through the counsel of the divines or clergy , goe the same way that this emperor charles went with his son king phillip , who were destroyed with their land and people ; who may not so truly , as certainly prophesie and warn such powers , who wilfully take such a course ( said the author ) that they also will bring themselves with their land , religion , and subjects to ruine ? m. publ. alienis malis cautior . seneca , . some are , and have been of that opinion , that there are no people that ought to be more severely punished than hereticks , blasphemers , and contemners of religion . but what said erasmus , is it a greater transgression to be a christian than to be a murtherer of father or mother , &c. but such things shall the devil raise up against the gospel ; and oftentimes they are called hereticks , who do so little contemn religion , that they will die for their religion ; and therefore it appears ( said he ) that they are no despisers of religion , who are so given up to suffer , for to keep a good conscience before god. likewise , he appears to be free from blasphemy , who will rather die , than by imbracing error will be freed from death or persecution ; such appear to be free from blaspheming god willingly . and as concerning the life of christ , that hath been alwayes so meek , that it is as possible to find an example of a lambs devouring of a wolf , as of that putting a heretick to death by the sword ; and they in whom his spirit dwelleth are minded like him : but as concerning persecutors , while in the new-testament they find nothing but meekness , which is directly contrary to their persecution ( said he ) therefore are they necessitated to fly unto the old , by which they suffiiently manifest whose spirits children they are . this doth the multitude of the martyrs testifie with their innocent blood , how that the true believers , have suffered as hereticks , blasphemers , uproar-makers , contemners of religion , and seducers , &c. yet it is a fast and certain rule ( saith the history ) that where the spirit of god and his truth hath place , that there must all consultations of persecutions cease ; then much more the thing it self , knowing that their weapons are wholly spiritual ( even as god and his whole kingdom is ) which must be used and felt , and keep the authority ; for there are ( saith he ) weapons of love , of prayer , of peace , and of patience , whereby the inward understanding of the heart and soul , may be brought unto the right way : but what is flesh and blood with fleshly weapons , alas ( said he ) in no wise fitting , but like unto the world , which run on in the broad way to destruction . moreover it is evident enough , for in the whole europa , experience hath learned it , that the cruel condemning , banishing , persecuting and putting hereticks to death about matters of faith and religion , is an absolute contrary means , for to rout out hereticks , for to unite the divided christendom , and to quiet its disturbances . and it hath also been found by experience , that external peace and unity , can , and may be better preserved in a kingdom or common-wealth , through forbearance , and by suffering of contrary opinions ( through love and christian meekness ) than by banishing and persecuting people to death , about matters of faith and religion . chap. xii . when the bishops began to seek the help of the magistrate ; how it then ministered offence ; what punishment the church heretofore had ( according to the will of the lord ) for hereticks ; and how difficult a thing it is for magistrates to judge aright in matters of heresie . erasmus testified , that for above . years , the bishops did not seek the help of the emperors against the hereticks ; and when they did seek it against the insufferable wickedness of the donatisten , it did not please the good party , that they should then seek the help of the civil power ; for they then judged , that it became not the bishops to use any other weapons , or to have any other help , than the sword of the spirit , the word of god , although the evil was incurable , yet would they have excluded it by excomunication , which is said to be the greatest judgment or punishment that then the church had . now it is confessed , that the lord jesus christ hath manifested his will by that which is left upon record , and which was delivered by his apostles , who have shewn us how we should carry our selves . . towards them that resist the truth , tim. . , . chap. . . . chap. . . . towards back-sliders , tim. . . . towards them that deny the resurrection , tim. . , . . towards them that teach what they ought not , titus . , . . towards them that cause divisions and offences , rom. . . . towards false prophets , mat. . . chap. . , . . towards them that walk disorderly , thes. . . . towards pharisaical hypocrites , that have the form of godliness , and not the power , luke . . tim. . . . towards false brethren , cor. . . . towards hereticks , titus . . . towards fornicators , and idolaters , cor. . . . towards the disobedient , thess. . . . towards the stiff-necked , mat. . . thus it appears from the scripture of truth , that it was not the will of our lord and lawgiver , that they should be punished with severe punishments in prisons , or by banishment , or by having their goods spoyled , or by being put to death ; nay , but he hath rather commanded , . that with meekness we should instruct , tim. . . . deliver unto satan , tim. . . . sharply to rebuke , tit. . , . . to avoid them , rom. . . thes. . . ioh. . . . to beware of them , mat. . . . to have no fellowship with them , cor. . . . to reject them , tit. . . tim. . . . to let them alone , mat. . . . to esteem them as heathens or publicans , mat. . . thus we see the laws that the lord jesus christ hath ordained for their punishment , to the end , that the fruits hereafter mentioned might be brought forth ; for god willeth not ( as many blood thirsty men ) that they should die and perish ; but the will of god is ; that they all should repent , pet . . tim. . . that they cease from mens traditions . that they might be ashamed , thes. . . that they might learn not to blaspheme , tim. . . that they might be found in the faith , tit. . . that the spirit might be saved , cor. . . for the power which the lord hath given the apostles , was to edification , and not to destruction , cor. . . erasmus said , the christian meekness must satisfie it self with these punishments ; to stone , that is the jewes work ; but the true christians work is to heal. ambrosius said , that hereticks were only to be punished by excomunication , and not to be beat and persecuted ; for so did the heathen said he , that knew not god : and ignatius said , you shall seperate your selves from them , and exhort them to repentance . in haereticis coercendis quatenus progredi liceat ubi nominatius eos ultimo supplicio affici non deberi aperte demonstratur , christlinge impressum , anno . sectio . chrisostomus said , that he was not such a fool , as that he would suffer them to be his judges who were his open enemies , for it is against all right and reason , that he who is the accuser , and witness , should also be judge . every one ( saith he ) will be judge over another , yet none acknowledging the other to be his judge . tell me then ye wise men ( who would have the hereticks punished , or persecuted to death by the magistrate ) who shall be the judge , the magistrate , the church , or the doctrin which is spoken against ? and how shall the magistrate be assured of the odiousness of the blasphemy , and crimes ? and how shall the magistrate know certainly who are punishable sismaticks , apostates , false teachers , hereticks and seducers ; who they are that set up a sect or a church ? who believe well or evil ? who teach according too , or contrary to the scripture ? who are moved of god , or by his own zeal ? who do according to a good conscience or contrary ? who are wounded and judged in themselves , and who are not ? and who are obstinate and stiff-necked hereticks , or constant upright christians ? but suppose the magistrates should refer this to the divines or clergy ( said he ) to judge of , what more assurance shall they have than the magistrate ? who through their strong importuning , blindly persecute the hereticks , and have martyred and put to death most of the christians and servants of god ; ( said he ) how can they then more than the magistrate judge of such hidden mysteries as before mentioned ? vide synopsis disp. . thes. chap. . chap. xiii . the necessity of just and equal liberty ; how expedient it is to hear and see before one iudge ; how the persecuting clergy do follow the example of the iewes ; how life and conversation hath not been so much looked at , as difference in doctrine and worship ; and how prejudicial it would be for christians , if their counsel were followed , that stir up men to persecute . aremnus said , the profitableness of the king and kingdom , requireth a firm and intire union of all the citizens and subjects ; now there can be no firm union ( said he ) except that all the citizens and subjects injoy equality , and that especially in matters of religion ; for inequallity among them in that particular , is and hath been of most politicians called one pestilence of the kingdom or common-wealth . anno . com. dist . fol. . qui autem partem civium consulunt , partem negligunt rem pernitiosissimam in civitatem inducunt . cicero in offi . when the king lodewick of france , was much importuned by the cardinals and bishops to put several people to death in his dominion , who were accused of much odious heresie ; the king said , if i were to begin a war with the turk , or the devil , i would first hear them : and afterwards he sent legaten to examine the matter , and when he found them to be such in their life and conversation , and worship , that he broke out with an oath , and said , these men are better than i with my catholicks . urede hand . van colen . fol. . the iewes , scribes and pharisees , exclaimed against christ to the magistrate , and said , if he had not been an evil doer , we would not have delivered him up unto thee : and then they accused him of perverting the nation , of forbidding the people to give tribute to caesar , of stirring up the people , of casting out devils through beelzebub ; and they also said , that they had a law , and that by that law he ought to die , &c. luke . , . john . . mark. . . john . , . thus did they seek to deceive pilate , who was unexperienced in their law ; even as the clergy now ( said a certain writer ) stir up the magistrates with their lies , seeking to make them believe that they have a law , by which hereticks ought to be persecuted and put to death ; and by their sophistical art ( said he ) can they prevaile with them so far , as that finally they ( to continue their friend , and the emperours ( or the kings ) deliver them into their hands as pilate did christ , who said , take him , and iudge him according to your law , &c. certainly said one , where christ is now made manifest , there are also iudas's to be found , the world is no better nor holier then it was , but rather worse ; and therefore doth the truth now suffer under the name of heresie ( said he ) as heretofore . for now in these dayes men do little regard life or conversation , but presently fall upon judging of the doctrine , persecuting and shamefully intreating those that differ from them in doctrine , though their life be never so good ( said he ) but indeed they ought to do otherwise , and with the spirit of meekness to instruct those that erre , and not to put men to death for their errors , which is indeed a very great error . condonabiles sunt quidem piorum hominum errores , sicut et non quivis corporis morbus uxitialis est . certainly it is unchristian-like , yea unnatural , that any should judge a man to be an obstinate heretick , who lives a good life , and is of an upright mind , and who cannot comprehend the matter otherwise than he understandeth it , and thereupon is he resolved to suffer whatsoever may come ; but when they have nothing to charge against his life , then rail they against his doctrine ; like as the persecutors of daniel said , we shall have nothing against him , except it be concerning his worship : and as amazia the priest of bethel informed the king against amos , and accused him of uproar , and told him that the land could not bear all his words , amos . . dan. . . acts . ier. . , , . if one sect should rise up against another , to the destroying one of another ( which must needs follow , if their counsel be followed , who would have hereticks put to death ) then when they had destroyed one another , consider then what a door there would be opened for the turk , and for other barbarous people , for them to take possession of the remainder , and then to tyrannize over them . but as lactantius said , even as they are deceived in the religion it self , so are they deceived in the manner of its protection ; for the true religion is not to be defended with killing , but with exhorting ; not with cruelty , but with patience ; not with wickedness , but by faith : for they that go about to defend their worship with torments , they rather pollute it , than defend it . chap. xiv . several testimonies against persecution , and forcing of conscience ; of the liberty among the heathen ; how meekness is better than war ; how the christians meetings were forbidden upon pain of death ; and of the efficacy of faith and patience . stephanus king of poland , said , it belongeth not to me to reform the conscience , i have alwayes gladly given that over to god which belongeth to him , and so shall i do now ; and also for the future , i will suffer the weeds to grow until the time of harvest , for i know that the number of believers is but small ; therefore said he , when some were proceeding in persecution , ego sum rex populorum non conscientiarum ( i. e. ) i am king of the people , and not of their consciences : he also affirmed , that religion was not to be planted with fire and sword. chron. van de rel. vrijh . deel . tindallus ( apud foxium in actis et monument is ) said , the new-testament of christ suffered no law of compelling , but alone of perswading and exhorting , pag. . timestius , exhorted the emperor , to cease from persecution , beseeching him that he would not be cruel by reason of the discord or defference of the christians doctrine , seeing there was such a multitude of sects among the heathen ; and that every one continue in his own doctrine , contrary to the meaning and doctrine of the rest . the prince of orange testified , that it was impossible that the land should be kept in peace , except there was a free tolleration in the exercise of religion , anno . swinckfeild testified , that according to the doctrine of christ and the example of the apostles , it did not become the preachers of the gospel , and ministers of the new-testament , in no wise to force with violence and tyranny the conscience in matters of faith , but with the sword of the spirit , the power of god , and with prayer , were they to resist the evil spirit and all its temptations , and with long suffering learn to overcome them all . the chronicle testifieth , how that theodosius persecuted no man , neither did he constrain any to hold fellowship with him , but permitted every man to meet in his own house , or at his own meeting ; and he being a very meek man , did thereby ( to wit , through meekness ) sooner bring his subjects to obedience , than by war , neither would he force the consciences of his subjects . relig. uriih . pag. . iohn taulerius spoke also much in his sermon book , of the tribulation , oppression and great suffering , that the christians were to expect here , but not that he should cause any of them to suffer . the burgemeesteren of amsterdam testified , that no man had power to bind another mans conscience , let him be who he will ( said they ) for this power pertaineth only to god , under whose command and power the conscience is , anno . erasmus said , that though they take our moneys and goods , they cannot therefore hurt our salvation ; they afflict us much with prisons , but they do not thereby separate us from god : moreover the lord said , if they persecute you in one city , fly unto another ; thereby doth he teach ( saith eras ) that persecuted christians , should not expel weapons with weapons , but rather fly before weapons ; for if peter was reproved , because he drew his sword against the wicked and ungodly , for his harmless lord ; wherefore then should a christian man for the future , revenge wrong with wrong , when it is done unto him ? in de krijgdes urede . fol. . lactantius said , we christians desire not that any man against his will should serve our god , who is the creator of all things , neither are we likewise angry if he be not served ; for we believe ( saith he ) that his majesty might as well revenge their despisings , as he doth the injuries of his servants : and therefore when we suffer such shameful things , we keep silent , referring vengeance unto the lord , and do not like unto those who would be esteemed defenders of their gods , who are full of wrath against those that do not honour them . rel. uriih . pag. . we are assured ( said cyprianus ) that they that persecute us , shall not remain long unpunished , and the greater injuries which they have done , the more manifest revenge will come upon them ; though we had no knowledge of the antient times , yet notwithstanding , that which of late hath happened , might serve for a sufficient warning , ( to wit ) that in so short a time ( saith he ) so grievious and terrible a revenge is already come upon persecutors . merula . pag. . when cyprianus was threatned to be banished out of the land , except he would renounce the christian religion ; he replyed to those that threatned him , and said , he that carrieth christ shut up in his heart and mind , can be no exile or banished man , for the earth is the lords , and the fulness thereof . afterwards he was much urged by the governour to betray his brethren , to which he would in no wise condescend ; and when the governour told him , that the emperour had forbidden the meetings of the christians , that they should not meet upon pain of death , then he gave the governour to understand , that he was prepared to die for the profession of the truth . moreover said cyprianus , have we not seen that the martyrs of christ , did not look upon their torments with cruel eyes , neither did they threaten tyrants , but was more sorrowful for their blindness , than for their own suffering . anno . petrus viretus said , that there was nothing that sooner broke the violence of tyranny , than the patience of the saints ; neither was there any better means to take away the sharpness of their swords ( said he ) and to quench and extinguish their fire , than through faith , constancy and prayer . chap. xv. augustinus's testimony ; how ambrosius was threatned ; how private meetings could not be prevented by proclamations , &c. how it is the duty of christians to continue their meetings ; and how we are to obey god more than the emperor or the king. augustinus testified , that when emperours were in error , then did they make laws for to defend errors against the truth ; yet ambrosius would not obey the emperor in things that were contrary to god and his commands , wherefore the emperor threatned , that he would cut off his head ; then said ambrosius , i will suffer as a bishop , do thou as becometh an executioner or hangman . apoph . fol. . the chronicle testifieth , how that in times past , private meetings could never be hindred through rigorous proclamations , strict orders , and executions , nor yet sects of sinister opinions , but by how much the more they were forbidden by orders , and persecuted , by so much the more they acted against the orders . bor. . . . moreover it sheweth , how the martyrs in tribulation were mostly accused , because they continued their meetings contrary to the command of the king. int martel . lib. . pag. . this is the duty of all the faithful ( said a certain wise man ) that they continue their meetings together in the name and fear of the lord , though kings , princes , and magistrates by their proclamations and orders command the contrary ; for after the apostle through many perils of his life , had preached the doctrin of the gospel in synagogues , schools and markets , and being resisted by open violence , and forbidden to preach any more in that name , he notwithstanding after that kept meetings in private houses when he preached . grotius testified , how that it was the opinion of some , that they that did cruelly handle , such as kept their meetings ( not to gormandize or play the glutton , nor to disturb the publick peace , but as schools of vertue ) were themselves in such a state , as ought to be punished . vide grot. lib. . pag. . the history sheweth , how that heretofore some said , as others do now , that new things , as new opinions , &c. are alwayes to be feared , especially great meetings and assemblies ; but ( said the author ) men need not fear that doctrine which tends to the bringing of people to piety and honesty ; neither need men be afraid of the meetings of honest peaceable people , who seek not to keep themselves private , except that they be thereunto constrained ; concerning whom i may say ( said he ) as augustus said concerning the meetings of the jews , that they were not to domineer , nor to be excessive in eating and drinking , nor yet to disturb the peace , &c. anno . in scotland it was decreed and concluded , that people should in all things , obey the magistrates , religion only excepted . hist. georg. fol. . lucernus said , he that commandeth any thing wherewith he bindeth the conscience , that is an antichrist . inde bennse disp. fol. . therefore said erasmus , if that at any time evangelical godliness require that people must contemn their commands , that must be done with such moderation , as that it may not be through any hate against them , but through a godly zeal . vide exod. . , , . considering how that the commands of god are to be esteemed above the commands of men ; obey your masters ( saith he ) but not against god , to whom you are more bound than unto men . daniel kept himself innocent before god and the king , notwithstanding his doing contrary to the king's command , concerning the free exercise of his religion , dan. . . but say some , the powers will not suffer this new doctrine ; i know not , but that they might well suffer it , where it fundamentally manifesteth it self , said vrbanus regnis ; yet though they will not suffer it , every true christian knoweth that he ought to keep to the lord and his truth , and in such a case he may ( said he ) without contempt of authority , let pass that worldly command ; and of this will the spiritual law admit : for it doth not become the emperour , nor the king to determine any thing against the divine command , nor to do any thing that is against the rule of the exangelical prophets , and apostles truth ; and if that they command any evil , then must we give them this answer , we must obey god rather than men , acts . . but in these things which are not against the command of god , we will be subject . yet when the emperour or king commandeth one thing , and god another , and that we obey god , who hath the supream power , we desire herein to be excused by the emperour and king ; if they threaten imprisonment for disobedience , he threatneth hell. vide his epistle of twofold righteousness , fol. , . anno . chap. xvi . how it doth not become the magistrate to force the conscience , nor to be a iudge in points of doctrine ; and of what dangerous consequence it would be , if the magistrate should proceed against hereticks , according to his own interpretation of the law. castellius testified , that in matters of religion , there was no other magistrate than christ alone , and they that he ( not with the sword , but with his word ) armeth and sendeth forth . the antient protestants testified , how that the most of the old fathers affirmed , that the magistrate had nothing to do to meddle with the conscience , to force and compel that to believe , seeing that the temporal sword was put into their hands to punish theeves , murderers , and other disturbers of the peace ; but as concerning religion , and that which pertaineth unto the soul , the only spiritual sword , the word of god , must and ought herein to remedy , separating the zeal and religion which did defend man from tumults , and disturbing of governments . neither doth it belong to any man to ordain other laws for punishment , besides those which god hath appointed ; and therefore is it so highly forbidden to add or diminish , deut. . . chap. . . rev. . . for no laws but god's bind the conscience . merck-tyck , pag. . moreover it hath been formerly testified , that they do very unchristianly , who under pretence of ecclesiastical discipline , introduce a new authority over the faith and consciences of men , isa. . . psal. . , . acontius testified , that it was against the office of a magistrate to be a judge in points of doctrine , in matters of religion , and in the same to use his power violently ; and that in particular he should do contrary to his office , if that he used his power to please any man , as that when he had committed the care of religion to some particular person or persons , and that he should be ready to draw out his sword against those whom the other accused as hereticks , or give the weapon into their hand : now how guilty ( he that thus did ) would be in the day of the lord , may you judge . alcmerus testified , that god alone is the judge of the heart , and that he alone should judge of faith and unbelief ; therefore is it not lawful for princes ( said he ) to judge any man in matters of faith , while they are not guilty of any manifest transgression of any known civil law , as theft , murder , &c. for they are judges of the body , and not of the soul , rel. uriih . deel . pag. . through what impudency dare you judge them to death ( saith castellius ) that profess the name of christ ? who hath taught you the matters of religion , of which you are most ignorant ? i believe you will say , you do not these things alone from your own judgement , but through the judgement of the learned , who hath taught you , who ought to be punished , and put to death ; and verily it is so ( said he ) for i see that your learned men do injoyne you , not to put any to death about religion , but according to their judgement . w. teelingh testified , that the magistrate ought not to rest upon the conclusion of the church , nor thereupon to proceed , being that the church might err , and that it was dangerous following . de hevige ende huestige kerckelijcbre luijden ( i. e. ) the vehement and hasty clergy . in eubul . . , , follies . the lord of pleffy referred the judgement of doctrine and teachers , &c. to the judgement of all christians , and not only to the judgement of the pollitick magistrates , nor not alone to the ecclesiastical clergy , neither only to them both , no , but to all men . vide his trac . of the church , pag. , , . experience hath sufficiently demonstrated , that it is a very hurtful thing , to compel all people to dance after the magistrates pipe ( said a certain writer ) for where it hath been so , oh! what hath been the effect thereof , but most commonly an universal delusion of the subjects , with a bloody persecution of the true prophets ; for the greatest multitude of men is never the best ; as also the greatest number of emperors and kings are not very holy , but often have shewn themselves ( saith he ) to be very wicked . merck-tyck . pag. . the lord hath expresly declared ( said one ) that the magistrate is no fit judge to judge of doctrine ; and that the use of such jurisdiction is forbidden him . for how shall a man know a heretick but by knowing the cause , whereby a man is made a heretick ? and if the magistrate do so interpret the law , as that he thinketh those hereticks may be forgiven , who have not endeavoured to counsel others , and that they are to be put to death , who persevere in teaching others , and are resolved so to do ; shall men then be in safety , and their credit and welfare preserved ? certainly no ; for so often as the truth shall falsely be scandalized with the name of heresie , through the orders of the magistrate , so often shall the servants of the lord be thereby brought into suffering ; for it is not lawful for them to whom god hath manifested his truth , to hide their talent in the earth , through silence and dissimulation . vide arg. des sat. lib. . pag. . idem pag. , . with what clearer example can the magistrates be exhorted not to depend upon any mans judgement , then that concerning the son of god , who was so carelesly given over , not only according to the judgement of his wicked and ungodly enemies , but also according to their desire . take him ( said pilate ) and judge him according to your law. pag. . david said , that heaven was given to the lord of heaven , but the earth unto the children of men ; that is , god hath given man power over earthly matters , and over whatsoever belongeth unto earthly matters , but over heavenly matters , and these things which appertain unto the kingdom of heaven , the king of heaven hath only dominion over . vred . hand . tot . col. fol. , . regula sit morte non puniendos , sed iudex videat et ponderet . chap. xvii . how the truth is oppressed through somes vsurpation ; how the protestants have been hindred from printing of their books ; the unjustness of the thing ; how it hath been the papists doing , who will neither suffer disputations nor books against themselves ; the cause why ; and how unjust a thing it is that one should usurp authority over all the rest , &c. not without reason are men offended , said calvine , when they see the truth of god lye oppressed with fire and sword , and that none dare appear to help and defend the same ; and that error is so strongly maintained with the cloak of lawful iudgement , that there is no freedom to reprove and amend the same ; neither will they that have the name of the supream authority , suffer any thing to be spoken that is contrary to their institutions ; and if one reprove or rebuke them , and teach any thing contrary to what they teach , then do they account that to be uproarish , when they themselves are the most tumultuous , decl. chap. , . further he added , that if they themselves did not stir up the mighty to shed blood , there would never arise so many uproars among the people . and it was luthers opinion , that those that stirred up the princes to persecute about religion , they raised the uproar . thesaur . pag. . likewise the reformed protestants complained of being forbidden to print bookes , and to sell them , as appears from the chronicles ; which thing the prince of orange held for unfitting , a forcing of conscience , a quenching of prophesie , and an oppressing of the truth . bor. chron. second part , fol. . . the papists counselled the emperour , the princes and states , that they should obstruct writing and printing of books , as also disputing and preaching , otherwise than according to the interpretation and approbation of the church ; and that the dispersers of such books should be punished . vide , history of the counsel of trent . pag. , . when tacitus had declared , how that the lords fathers had thought it good , to burn the books of cremutius cordus ( some of which were afterwards brought to light ) he said , he must laugh at the folly of those , who thought by their present power , they could extinguish the remembrance of them from ages to come , for most commonly the contrary happens ; and when men reprove the glorious understandings , their honour and renown is not thereby diminished , but rather augmented : further ( said he ) all kings that have used great tyranny in such cases , have thereby brought contempt upon themselves , and more honour and esteem to the other . vide annales , lib. . pag. . the emperour nero , caused the books of f. veientio ( who reproved the priests and the council ) to be burned ; yet while they were to be gotten ( notwithstanding the danger ) they were sought and read , but afterwards people were permitted to have them and to read them . [ nota. ] when such writings ( said he ) are little esteemed , they perish of themselves , but when men are angry , then they come to be the more manifest ; for the difficulty in procuring of them , sharpeneth the desire , kindleth the zeal , and bringeth the matter into more esteem . pol. . lipsi . . lib. fol. . the professors of leyden said , that it sounded strange in their ears , that men were come to the forbidding of books , and would not suffer them according to their rights and priviledges ; a thing ( said they ) for which people have justly exclaimed against the popish government , for liberty herein chiefly consisteth , ( viz. ) that every one may freely speak his judgment ; and heretofore it hath been esteemed a mark of tyranny , when people might not speak their thoughts . vide their remonst . anno . verily ( said they further ) reason which opposeth all tyranny , teacheth us in the general , that the truth can be no more than the light constrained ; therefore is it tyrannical to forbid good books , as the apostate iulianus did . the king of spain , with other of the popish princes , will not suffer different religions in their dominion , nor yet disputations about religion , neither will they suffer any books that speak in the least against their orders and religion ; this do many reprove in the papists , and yet would gladly have it so themselves . they fear ( said lactantius ) that being conquered by us , they should be constrained to give us the hand ; whereby they sufficiently manifest the desparation of their corrupt reason , seeing they dare not search nor enter into dispute with any , because they know they should soon be overcome ; and so not searching , they expel wisdom , and set violence in its place ; and being they endeavour to judge those as being guilty , whom they know well to be guiltless , yet will they not suffer their innocency to be made manifest ; as if it were more unreasonable to manifest innocency , than to condemn them that have not been heard : but as i have said ( said he ) they fear that they should not be able to judge , if they heard ; and therefore tortour , kill , and banish they the servants of the most high god , that is , righteous men. lactant. lib. . chap. . certainly ( said acontius ) if the shepherds once get it so far , as that none may oppose them , then will they force the poor people , and compel them to receive whatsoever they will ; then woe be to us and our posterity , and woe be to all honest people ; if it once come again so far , that the just and equal defence against the learned , should be esteemed calumnies , wickedness , and crimen laesae ma estatis . arg. des sat . lib. . fol. . for the pope innocentius the third , made a law , that he that presumed to blaspheme the pope , was to be punished with death , neither was any to speak against him , nor against the church of rome , which were not to be judged by any man : likewise a synod at rome made a decree , that none in the world should speak against the church of rome ; and cruelly did they persecute those that did contrary to their decree . merul. pag. , , , . at geneva it was also forbidden by a proclamation , that any should speak against calvin and his doctrine . an. . anno . there were several of the clergy in the low-country , that thought it needful that some order was taken , for the preventing and dispersing of such books as they thought unfitting . if that one church or teacher ( said castel . ) be only tolerated , to reprove , vilifie , and falsely to accuse all other , and that without permitting any opposition , defence or reply ; how can such clear themselves from being of those , who will be holier than others ? and how can they reprove that great wickedness in the papists of cutting out peoples tongues ( or depriving them of the power of speaking ) while they do the same , though in another manner . castel . cal . chap. . with diligence do they hinder so much as they can any books being written or printed against them , to the end , that they might not be made manifest ; and if they be printed , that they may not be sold but burned ; and moreover , if any have them , such are to be banished and esteemed as hereticks ▪ merck-tyck . pag. . if that some had power according to their wills ( said one ) all should finally be esteemed and holden for blasphemers and hereticks , that reprove any divine of any error , or that is of another opinion in points of religion . chron. vande rel. uriih . . but said the duke of saexon , it would tend to much praise , if they by their doings and authority did bring it to pass , that this controversie might not be ended with arms or weapons , but that an orderly course might be maintained , which would heal the sickness , reconcile the church or people , and do no violence to the consciences of men. vide john sleid. chron. lib. . god's mercy and iudgment rationally shewn to england . hear o england , and consider the things which the lord hath done in thee , and suffer me a little to reason with thee , thou choicest of the nations , and much renowned among god's people ; in thee hath the light , glory , and power of the lord of hosts appeared ; in thee hath the standard of the lord been set up ; in thee hath the acceptable day of salvation and deliverance been proclaimed ; in thee hath many prophets and hand-maids been brought forth , which have gone out of thee into other nations , and thou hast been as a nursery unto them ; in thee hath the everlasting gospel been preached freely , both in thy steeple-houses , markets , high-wayes , and in many other places ; in thee hath the way of life , peace , and everlasting salvation been made manifest ; yea , in thee hath the god of heaven thy creator , done many notable and wonderful things ; and what ! wilt thou now undo thy self by resisting the lord , by rebelling against him , and by chusing thy own wayes , by fulfilling thy own lusts , and by satisfying thy own desires , by persecuting and shamefully intreating the servants and hand-maids of the most high ? of which things thou wouldst not have become so highly guilty , hadst thou not rebelled against the light of the lord which is arisen in thee , and resisted his eternal power and counsel , which is broke forth in the midst of thee ; many besides my self lament over thee , and the hearts of many have been filled with sorrow and heaviness , by reason of thy degeneration and apostasie , by reason of thy violence and cruelty , and by reason of thy persecution and oppression ; oh! alas for thee , how shalt thou avoid the wrath that is to come , or escape the hand of the lord ? yet thy destruction will be of thy self , and thy iniquities the cause of thy judgement . but hear and consider , and suffer me to reason a little with thee ; was thy king reduced out of his deplorable sufferings in forragin parts , and peaceably introduced into thee , to connive at the grievous suffering of the innocent in thee ? have thy parliaments and councils been broken to pieces , and with contempt secluded , to the end that others might come in , to make acts and laws for the binding and forcing of the consciences of the lords dear children ? were thy bishops reinstalled to exercise lordship over gods heritage , and to augment the sufferings of the afflicted in thee ? were thy judges and justices ( together with many inferior officers ) turned out of their places , that others who are more deboyst might come in , to oppress and persecute the harmless , more than heretofore , in thee ? were thy high , notional pretended gifted priests ejected , that they that are more lewd and prophane , might be brought in ? yet greater havock and spoile to make of the saints , and of their substance , than their predecessors did ? in summa , was that notable overturning and remarkable change , which of late happened in thee , to this end ? or was it not rather to manifest the power of the most high , and his wonderful works in thee , that thy inhabitants might know that he alone will rule , not alone in thee , but in all the kingdoms of the whole earth . moreover , consider whether or no it hath been for thy profit and honour , to have so many of the lord's servants and hand-maids in thy goals , dungeons and houses of correction ; and so many drunkards and swearers , cozenners and cheaters , at liberty in thy cities , towns and villages ? is it for thy honour , and the welfare of thy inhabitants souls , that covetous and proud men , yea such as god never sent , should have their free liberty to preach in thee for their heir , and that the true messengers and servants of the lord ( who preach freely ) should be cast into holes and dungeons , thereby to silence them , or to prevent them from spreading god's truth abroad in thee ? is it for thy profit and advantage , that faithful and discreet merchants , trusty and laborious tradesmen , diligent and expert marriners , careful and industrious husband-men , should be deprived of their liberty , about the exercise of their conscience , and thereby consequently obstructed from getting a comfortable livelihood for themselves and their families ? how think'st thou shall they be able to pay all the customes , taxes , dues , rights , and assessments , &c. that are required in thee of thy inhabitants ? how shall they possibly discharge those i say , if they do not injoy their liberty and the priviledges of free-born english-men ; and if they thereby come to be impoverished , what will their impoverishment enrich thee ? or who is there in thee that will willingly relieve and maintain such , if external poverty should overtake them ? were it not therefore better for thee to let them injoy their liberty ( notwithstanding their different judgment in matters of religion , provided that they lived peaceably in the kingdom ) that through diligence and industry , they might win or gain their own bread , though with the sweat of their browes , that the land might so much the better yeild her increase , and that trading in thee might not decay , to the impoverishing of many more families , whose livelihood depends upon their trade , which can scarcely go well when the father or master of it is cast into a prison for the exercise of his couscience ? which things i know will tend to the laying of thee waste , and to the depopulating of thee , even as many parts of germany and other countries , have been laid waste and ruined ; which desolation hath had its rise from such differences in part , as seem to arise in thee , which in process of time may produce the like effects , if god in his mercy , through his power and wisdom do not direct them . though this brief hint which i signifie hereof to thee , may be little regarded by thee , yet when thou hast felt the smart of it , then mayest thou lament it as other places have done , and remember that it was told thee before it came upon thee : and this shall i add further ( viz. ) if thy land open her mouth to drink the blood of the saints ( after which it seems to thirst already ) then expect thou the coming of the overflowing scourge suddenly , which hath been heavy upon other countries , who have polluted themselves with the blood of the lamb's followers , from which horrible thing , the lord deliver thee . though i am not within thy territories , yet my spirit is present with the suffering seed in thy dominion ; for the deliverance of which my soul hath often interceeded unto the lord ; and know assuredly , that in true and entire love to thee , have i laid these things before thee , for thy inhabitants ( my country-men ) to weigh and consider in the light of the lord. w. c. germany the th . of the th . month , . but transcribed in amsterdam the second month , . finis . balm from gilead, or, the differences about the indulgence stated and impleaded in a sober and serious letter to ministers and christians in scotland / by an healing hand. bairdy, john. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) balm from gilead, or, the differences about the indulgence stated and impleaded in a sober and serious letter to ministers and christians in scotland / by an healing hand. bairdy, john. [ ], p. printed for tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - taryn hakala sampled and proofread - taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion balm from gilead : or , the differences about the indulgence , stated and impleaded : in a sober and serious letter to ministers and christians in scotland . by an healing hand . rom. . . — mark them which cause divisions , &c. joh. . . holy father keep through thine own name those thou hast gvien me , that they may be one as we are . si in necessariis servaremus unitatem ; in adiaphoris , libertatem ; in utrisque charitatem ; quàm multò meliùs se haberent res ecclesiae ? rupert . melden . in paraenisi votiva pro pace eccl. a doctore glorioso , a pastore contentioso , & ab inutilibus questionibus , liberet ecclesiam deus . luth. london , printed for tho. cockerill at the three legs in the poultry , over against the stocks-market . the printers advertisement to the reader . courteous reader , this ensuing letter having long lurked in some private hands , not communicated to them for whom it has been principally designed ; transcribing and reading of large papers being uneasie , especially to the vulgar , falling now at length into my hand , i do here present it to thee in print , for thy ease and profit . i know not the author , nor does it much concern you or me , quis dixit , but , quid dictum . naked truth will doubtless be acceptable to lovers of truth and peace , whoever the herald be that publishes it . nor is it my part to write an epistle commendatory ; all i shall say is , tolle & lege , do but once seriously , and without a preoccupied mind peruse it , and read it through , and it is hoped it shall not repent you of your labour . you see it is an irenicum , designed to cast water upon these unhappy flames , which have burnt up , consumed and destroyed more of the interest of piety in that land , than tongue or pen can express . and since our blessed lord hath said , blessed are the peace-makers , it is expected the children of peace will not refuse an ear to the counsels of peace , nor count it an unhappiness to be charmed by the words of truth and peace here held forth with convincing light , and perswasive power . the author it seems hath not affected to be like some , verborum mare , rerum inane . delight will projicere ampullas , & sesquipedalia verba , to bogle consciences with big and busked words ; the simplicity of the gospel seems the most native and proper dress for the truths of christ . ye know whose character it is , to speak 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pet. . . this treatise being calculated for the capacity of vulgar christians , yet not below the genius of the more learned ( both of whose consciences , humours at least , needed cure ) has studied rather fortia , than phalerata , to be sound , nervous , sincere and plain , rather than polite . it is true , none of those dividers , with whom the author deals , had than unmasked themselves , nor run to that height of extravagancy , which some of late have been carried unto ; and therefore all are mildly and modestly dealt with . but considering the state of the controversie , and of the persons , as then it was , and still ( for most part ) is , it is hoped ye will find this paper , through the blessing of the prince of peace , not a little useful for clearing doubts , composing differences , and binding up of wounds . and seeing that fire still burneth ( and is like to burn all into ashes ) among that poor afflicted remnant , to contribute my mite of help to extinguish the same , is my aim in letting thee have it in print . farewell . balm from gilead : or an admonitory letter to the honest ministers and people in scotland , jan. . reverend brethren , and christian friends . we salute you heartily in the lord : grace and peace , through jesus christ be multiplied unto you . and be intreated , we pray you , to allow us liberty to use a little freedom with you , being constrained in duty to lay some things before you , concerning your late differences , which are like to run to such a lamentable height , and to have such sad effects , as may make you the astonishing wonder as well of your selves , as of others . an address , which we confess may seem strange , upon divers considerations , especially that such as we should presume to interpose with such as you , of whom it becomes us to learn , rather than to warn and admonish . but our apology is , necessity has no law. were your malady like to heal of it self , ( as we once expected time should have cooled your fever , worn out such distempers , and not augmented them ) , or were it tolerable , and not like to be a sickness unto death ; or , were others ( of whom there are many fitter than we ) undertaking the task , to apply balm to your bleeding wounds : we should have been glad to have stood by , and let better hands deal with you , and we to be joyful spectators of your cure , as we have been , and are sad witnesses of your disease . we know also how dangerous and thankless an office it is ( usually ) to meddle with divisions ; how ready such are ( like parters of a fray ) to get the redding-stroke , and be divided themselves , and torn in pieces by those who are most out of humour , whether most in the right or not , act. . . who can meddle with such a flame as is kindled amongst you , and not burn his face or fingers , even when he casteth water to quench it ? to get behind the hedg , and lye under the wind , were more easie and secure for us , than to stand up in the gap , and offer to pacifie the quarrel ; the contentions of brethren being ( like that of the ephramites , judg. . . ) sharper and harder to be composed than the jars and embroilment of an offended city , prov. . . moreover , true is solomons word , prov. . . he that medleth with strife belonging not unto him , is like one that taketh a dog by the ears . but , dear friends , our interest in you , and near relation to you , makes that we cannot but think our selves concerned : is not every man called to bring water , and put to his hand to help , when his neighbours house is on fire ? hear us therefore in a few words of soberness and truth , and let no prejudice or byass preoccupy your ear . ah! the noise of your condition , courses , and temper , hath come abroad , and filled all sober and tender hearts with amazement ! serious and solid spectators wonder what all this stir and bussle among you meaneth ; and it putteth them sadly to enquire thereinto , since their concernment in you as fellow-members of the same mystical body calleth them to sympathize and proffer their help , and not look unconcernedly upon your matters . it is not long since we bled for your sufferings and oppressions under the galling yoke , which reared up it self upon the ruins of so much of the lords precious interests , and the casting out and crushing of so many worthy ministers of christ , and harassing so many godly people for their non-compliance with that course of defection . yet herein we thought you happy , that you found mercy to be faithful , and to keep your integrity , bearing the cross with patience , and adhering to the way of truth , with zeal and constancy ; until the lord should arise and plead for himself , his altars and people ; expecting he would make your patient suffering in due time mollifie the hearts of your rulers towards you , and be crowned with an happy outgate . but alas ! no sooner find we the most high extending mercy to you , in granting you some favour in the eyes of authority , inclining them to relent of the former rigors , and begin to take off restraints under which ye groaned , and lay by almost useless ; and to revive the stones out of the rubbish , by granting a liberty to some of your outed ministers to return to jerusalem , to build the sanctuary ; but alas ! soon ( almost ) we find you splitting among your selves ! behold what heats , ruptures and animosities have broken up among you , like to consume the blessed remnant into ashes ! giving your zion cause to complain , behold the wounds that i have received , even in the house of my friends ! when your first indulgence was granted , how much was we refreshed to see a little reviving , and none of you casting at a day of small things , but rejoicing that any nail was got in the holy place ; and none that were in providence kept still in the captivity , envying them who in providence were permitted to return ; nor those that were returned , forgetting their brethren who were detained in babylon behind them , but thirsting , praying , and endeavouring for their delivery . but since a second indulgence unhappily attended with several grievances , what dividings and jarrings have arisen ! some being free to make use of that liberty , accounting it a mercy that the legal restraints which debarred them from the publick , free , peaceable exercise of their ministry , were taken off ; and that it was their duty to take hold of the indulged liberty , with a resolution to give testimony in their station against what their acceptance of the same might be lyable to be mistaken in , or be reputed to homologate of faults in the magistrate ; as also , not to observe any unlawful injunctions imposed , or to be imposed upon them ; judging that thus they wisely separated the precious from the vile , and were obliged to hold fast that which was good , as well as to refuse the evil . others of you were unclear to make use of the foresaid liberty , some upon one account , some upon another ; of which hereafter . and had your different apprehensions of that matter been managed with sobriety and moderation , and no soul-wasting and church-ruining contests been raised thereabout ; but god waited upon , and mutual forbearance exercised , till your different measures of light had come to some happy accommodation ; blessed had ye been , psal . . , . and some , we grant , yea a good many , have obtained mercy to do so . but others , alas ! have carried otherwise , not contenting themselves to enjoy and follow their own light , have also laid , and still lay sore at those who differ from them . what woful heart-burnings , rentings , alienations , fierce and fiery clamours , and pitiful confusions , are fallen in among you ! as if a judicial spirit of division were poured out upon you , ( ah ! the anger of the lord hath divided them ! and will he no more regard them ? ) which who can look upon , and not be pained at the very heart with sorrow ! who can hold their peace at such a doleful thing ! whose tongue would not loose , as croesus his son 's did , in a like case , and cry , spare ! understanding therefore such exorbitant heats and extravagant courses to be in some of you against others , meerly for their following their light in use-making of that license to exercise the ministry which they have and hold of the lord ; albeit we may not presume to be palaemon or umpire betwixt you , yet ( judging the part of a monitor not incompetent unto us ) we cannot but interpose , and with the tear in our eye , cry , what mean ye to fall at such odds ! dear brethren ! can there be no difference among you without division ? no diversity of apprehensions of things without running into parties and contests about them ? is difference of judgment in every lesser thing , inconsistent with unity and peace , concord and communion in things wherein ye are aggrieved ? and may ye not be of one heart , till ye be of one way in things wherein ye differ ? must ye cast out and contend , when ye cannot all be of the same mind , in such inferiour things , albeit ye agree in the main ? are ye not united in doctrine , worship , principles of discipline and government ? and will ye rent at such a rate about the application of one principle to a particular case ? will ye fall out among your selves , while ye are jointly ingaged in one common cause against a common adversary , who watcheth for your halting , and saith of your jarrings , aha! so would we have it ! have ye forgotten the former persecution , that ye are so soon fallen by the ears among your selves ? are ye not under their eye , who rejoice at the sport , clap hands and cry , hui to the fray ? could ye gratifie them , and disadvantage your selves more than by such reelings ? is not this that which their very souls longed for ? and now you grant them their desire , as lam. . , . you are riven with a wedg of your own timber , whom all the enemies fury could not undo ! are ye not become the scorn of the adversary , the shame and sorrow of your friends ? ah! tell it not in gath , &c. how much also of the indignation of the lord doth schismatizing import ? what fatal judgments doth it portend ? jer. . , . and what a scandal is it to see the sons of peace , as it were , intoxicated with the waters of massah and meribah ? will not this be marah , bitterness in the end ? is it not your great plague to be thus disjointed , isa . . — ? were it not your rich blessing to be composed , and unite , for the better following of common duties , isa . . , ? and will not your foes carefully improve such advantages against you ? and being broken among your selves , are ye not become weak and contemptible , and expose your selves a prey to all the beasts of the field that please to devour ? and utterly incapacitate your selves for duty or outgeate ? what will probably become of such a distracted divided company ; crumbled into so many atoms and fractions ? yea , subdivisions and new debates starting daily , fra once division beginneth , being like the letting forth of water , breaches multiplying and waxing wider and wider , prov. . . what will this sickness terminate into ? we need no galen nor hypocrates to foretel its event . a wiser than they , telleth us , a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand . may ye not remember your last rupture , how the wild boar of devastation came in at that gap over all your bellies , which might have been prevented , had not your renting opened a door for it , and incapacitated you to oppose it ? and what may come in at this , is not hard to foresee ! is not popery , that devouring leviathan , at your gates , ready to be ushered in by it ? was not hannibal ad portas , a strange alarm to the romans to lay by their private jars , and unite against their common danger ? and will no such hazard induce you to let alone your intestine embroilments ? will neither by-past experience ( the school-master of very fools ) nor present fears and peril warn you ? will ye still dash upon that rock on which the church of christ hath so oft split , and god hath set up so many beacons of his displeasure ? shall schism be again the bane and blemish of the presbyterian party ; and your comely parity be any more like the mother of confusion , and so the way of god be evil spoken of through you ? or , is this the way for the gospel's prospering ? can they be excellent architects , who build the lords house by firing it , or pulling it in pieces ? or , these good chirurgeons who know no other method or means to heal , but by dislocation , amputation , or other the like dogged cures ? is this the mean to make christs kingdom and crown flourish , by setting his faithful friends and subjects at variance ? did ever religion indeed thrive by such dividings and strivings of ministers or people ? is not division always distempering , and the very moth and canker-worm of the life of piety ? look , whatever religion seemeth to gain in a parcel , doth it not lose much more in the bulk , in a factious time ? and how much profession enlargeth her phylacteries , practice , power , life , and tenderness , abateth as much in reality : see psal . . v. . james . . verily the mischief of dividing is unspeakable . again , are ye not brethren ? and the canaanite and the perizite in the land ? and will ye yet contend in the very face of the enemy , and jaws of devouring-like danger ? will ye not cease your animosities , till the popish sword end the quarrel ? will ye be like those of jerusalem in the siege , wasting and weakning your selves by furious intestine conflicts , while the roman enemy lyeth about your walls , ready to swallow you up both ? or like distracted mariners falling by the ears together , while the swelling sea and raging storm is like to sink the ship and you both ? ( oh how fatal-like and demented ! ) moreover , is not schism a breach of your covenant , as well as prelacy ? abjured with that same breath wherewith ye renounce it and popery ? and will ye cry out of others for breach of covenant , and yet violate the same so grosly your selves ? be astonished , o heaven ! and tremble thou earth ! to see men so careful to run from one evil , and so little tender to hold off another ? what , are there no healing medicines , nor healing men among you ? none to stand in the gap ? can there be no accommodating your differences ? is your breach wide as the sea ? your wound incurable ? does any of you think it their glory to blow the bellows , and to be ambitious who shall act highest in opposition one to another ? then shall our soul weep in secret for your misery , and soon may your fate be read , hos . . . their heart is divided , now shall they be found faulty : rent , and ruin , psal . . . dividers are certainly subverters ; and will ye burn down the sanctuary into ashes , while ye pretend to defend and uphold it ? ah , how is almost every bottle filled , not with wine and strong drink , but a reeling spirit mingled in , to make them stagger and fall ? are they not like a wild bull in a net , full of the fury of the lord , and of the rebuke of their god ? how may here our pen stop , and our eye trickle down with tears ! — ah tragedy beyond lamentation ! — what shall we do for our little sister with her cancered breasts ? yet the most high is to be blessed , that the solid , godly , grave , and experienced of you , are not for fomenting , but for sopiting and quashing the differences . but oh ! the heat and inconsiderateness of the unsolid , unstudied , younger sort , and a few eager of the elder ! what unbridled intemperancy of tongue and actions stand they guilty of , before the lord ! and may not every sober person say , what jacob left for levi's legacy , gen. . . wo is us for their anger , for it is fierce ; and their wrath , for it is cruel ! o our soul , come not thou into their secret , and unto their assembly our honour be not thou united ! what will such distractions resolve into at last , if the healer of the nations prevent it not ? see gal. . . if ye bite and devour one another , take heed ye be not consumed one of another . will ye be like the foolish knights of cadmus , who never ceased fighting among themselves , while there were any to maintain the quarrel ? we mean not by this to disparage any's zeal and good affection , but the preposterous , irregular , immoderate prosecutions of that zeal , which some seem to be transported in , we cannot approve , gal. . , . we doubt if such of you as are most busie and greatest sticklers in such an unhappy business , will find neither thanks or reward from the prince of peace , psal . . , . but happy they who being persecuted , suffer it ; being defamed , intreat ; and study by patience , meekness , and long-suffering , to conquer their brethren , and to bring them to a better understanding together , rather than to meet humour with humour , heat with heat , railing with railing , &c. such are likest their ever blessed lord , pet. . . it is said , these quiet indulged men are not such dunces , but they could well repay their antagonists ; but ( whatever disadvantage they lye at otherwise ) yet in this they seem to have the advantage , that while others are for war , they are for peace , ( psal . . , . ) they seek peace and pursue it , they follow these their angry brethren with love , while they run from them ; they pray for them , some of whom to their power persecute them , ( jer. . . ) and instead of holding up debates , they love rather to let them fall for peace-sake , and to give their backs to the smiters , and their cheeks to them that pluck off the hair , and hide not their face from shame and spitting ; counting nothing dear to them , so they may finish their course with fruitfulness , and fulfil the ministry they have received of the lord. but , dear friends , could ye give us leave ( and not take it ill ) to use a little freedom with you , we would humbly adventure to proffer a word of advice to you all , which perhaps may be not unseasonable at such a juncture . first of all , study reconciliation with god. we fear your breach among your selves has begun here at distance with god ; you especially hath he known beyond others , and therefore will not let you go unpunished . what higher provocations are there , than those of sons and daughters ? and what sorer scourge can there be , than to be left of him to bite and devour one another ? by this means ye do the bishops work , and the papists work , to their hands : now ye see nothing will unite you , till ye unite in god ; a common cause and common interest will not unite you , a furnace will not unite you , no bonds will cement you , until ye be one in him who is the corner-stone , in whom both sides of the building meet . ii. get more of the power of grace into your hearts , and walk in his fear . did grace , not humour predominate , and the fear of god awe you , durst some take the latitude they do ? get heart-distempers ( the cause of heart-delusions ) purged away . mortifie pride and self-conceit ( the usual fault of men of parts , cor. . . and the snare of novices , tim. . . yet the usual makebait of contention , prov. . . ) as also passion , peevishness , male-contentedness , self-seeking , peremptoriness , &c. ( which are not seldom incident to sufferers ) , and all other dividing-co●●uptions , lay them aside ; and get love , humility , sobriety , meekness , moderation , self-denial , and such like uniting graces to possess your hearts and minds . it is our lords advice , mark . . have salt in your selves , and peace one with another . what is it but the corruptions , not the graces of good men , which maketh them jar ? see jam. . . cor. . , . let therefore your furnace refine you , and purge away your dross ; be not the boiling pot , retaining the scum ; homogeneous things unite easily and well . iii. study the practice of that excellent duty of mutual forbearance : read eph. . , . gal. . , . col. . , . and seriously ponder what there is inculcated by the wisdom of god. do not censure , nor rigidly strain or wrest one anothers words or deeds , commenting and putting glosses upon them , or wringing consequences from them ( as prejudice useth to do , cor. . , . ) which they never dreamed of , nor is there perhaps native ground for , prov. . . psal . . . backbite not one another , talk not of one anothers failings , real or supposed , ( tit. . . jam. . . ) but pity and pray over them , gal. . . chuse rather to weep in secret for the same , than to tell them for news . ye know constantine the great , his famous word and deed at the council of nice , when delations and complaints were preferred to him by the ministers one of another , i had rather , said he , hide a ministers fault with my robe , than eliminate them ; and accordingly he burn'd their libels and accusations , for the gospels sake . o let love cover ( pet. . . ) and not carnal zeal divulge , much less coin faults and misreports one of another . what would ye give the adversaries leave to do but to make you odious with slanders , that your cause may stink , and your name rot above the ground ? and shall any of you ( as some do ) take that trade off their hand , blasting ( so far as they can ) every bodies reputation not of their way ? is this the spirit of the lord ? are these his doings ? see jam. . , . psal . . , . gal. . , , . luk. . . is this acceptable service to the prince of pastors ? see numb . . , , . wherefore were ye not afraid to speak against my servant moses , says the lord , &c. weigh also , psal . . , . is shimei's vice now become a a virtue ? would it not become you better , in christian tenderness faithfully to admonish one another , than by word or writing in publick or private to traduce and load one another with legends of false stories , and groundless mistakes ? and yet what greater engine is used by some to breed and feed your differences , than this artifice ? prov. . . but will not wo be to them who widen breaches by evil whispers , and cunning surmises ? prov. . . much more sin they , who dare preach such things for the oracles of god. iv. fall into serious dislike of divisions , as most of all your grave and solid , tender and serious ministers and christians abhor them . know the sin and evil of them , what bitter fruits and sad consequences they are of . o! read carefully what these excellent divines have written ( from experience ) upon that subject , who bleeding over the churches wounds in their time , did essay in love to lay out the sore , and furnish cure : namely famous paraeus in his irenicum , and learned junius upon psal . . but if over-sea divines writings seem strangers to you , read some of those at home , specially judicious and holy mr. durham your country-man , in the last part of his excellent treatise of scandal ; and god●y mr. burroughs your neighbour , in his treatise of heart-divisions . read , consider , and lay to heart what these chrysostoms of their age , have by their golden mouths and silver pens delivered against dividings ; and see if ye will dare to make light of rentings any more . — godly men may for a time through infirmity and tentation be led upon that snare , ( o sad snare ! ) as act. . . luk. . , . yet it is not the better for that : it is their infirmity , not their duty , even to be in the least overtaken with it ; but of what untender ( not to say deboshed ) consciences must they be , who ( like salamanders ) take pleasure in the fire , and love to kindle or inflame the combustion ? prov. . , , , . is it not sad when some who seem strict and tender in other things , yet are nothing tender of renting the seamless coat of christ , and take a strange liberty to accuse and calumniate their brethren ? did ye ponder the woful evil and mischief of such practices , we think ye would abhor them little less than the sacrificing to the dagon of rome ! and yet alas , how prone are some to pride themselves in such untowardly ways , as if it were a piece of religion , yea the shibboleth and culmen of honesty ! thus glorying in their shame ! — we know , and all israel may know the certainty of these sad things ; we are not such strangers to your israel , but we have seen of your bitter papers , and otherwise had good information of some's strange anomalies , wherein we have wondered to see them so transported with prejudice and passion ( as saul was in his zeal against the gibeonites ) unto speeches and practices which might have made any sober and tender heart break in pieces . if any say , may and ought we not to testifie against the corruption which we suppose to be in the indulgence ? and if others say , may not we defend that which we suppose to be a lawful liberty , against all attackers of it ? we confess , we hear not much din of any defences , as if the indulged trusted so much to the merits of their cause , that they think its own innocency might bear it out , and therefore resolved by patience and prayer to wait on god , until he bring forth their righteousness as the light , &c. but all the noise we hear , is of impugning them , axes and hammers breaking down that restored piece of the carved work , as many take it to be . wherefore in order to your bearing testimony , might we adventure without your offence to advise you , we would humbly offer these three things to be considered : ( ) be sure it be a sin before ye appear against it ; lest ye condemn truth and duty instead of error and sin . and in this , remember ye must not too much indulge your own notions , nor every light scruple , which though they may suspend you from approving , yet may prove too weak a ground for condemning , see rom. . , . and how groundlesly did those contend with peter , in act. . ? what if you be in a mistake as those were ? consult therefore the oracles of god ; hear what your brethren has to say for themselves ; and condemn nothing peremptorily but what the scripture evidently condemneth ; and in intricate and debateable points ( which are controverted even amongst the learned , godly , and orthodox ) be not rash and positive in condemning all that are not of your mind . let the church define and determine the controversie before ye conclude any thing peremptorily about it , as to the judging of others ; and that part of the question which they own , what ye are unclear in , and boggle at , forbear to practice it your selves ; but condemn not others who are not of the same apprehensions , rom. . . what if your unclearness be your infirmity ? shall your infirmity warrant you to censure others perfection ? ( ) being once sure the thing is a fault , be sure also your brethren be guilty thereof , before ye condemn them for it . what if they be innocent of that you charge upon them ? think not jealousies , whispers , or uncharitable constructions , and rash and rigid imputations , or far-fetched , and not certain consequences , sufficient to fix guilt upon them . how did jobs friends thus mistake him , and rashly condemn him as wicked , and but an hypocrite , and many a threatning ( true in the general ) did they misapply to him in particular ? and so their dispute and arguments were like arrows shot at rovers , missing the mark , by mistaking him for the man he was not . thus innocency often suffers sadly upon mistake . whence the reformed divines complain of it as a great injustice done them by their adversaries , that such and such odious dogmata of doctrines , which their soul abhors , should be imputed unto them , and fastened upon them as theirs , which are denied by them , yet gathered ( by their adversaries ) by some sort of probable-like consequences , from principles which they hold : even as ye do charge your brethren with erastianism , and communion with the kings transcendent supremacy , &c. while yet they disclaim these as much as ye do , only by some remote and violent consequences ye would infer it from their practice of accepting the indulged liberty . nihil injustius ( saith maresius ▪ loc . . § . . ) quam alicui imputare tanquam illius dogma , ( add vel praxiu ) id quod ipso detestat 〈…〉 expresse , eo quod , non evidente , proximâ , & necessari● , consequentiâ , sed longe petitis argutiolis , putes te id ex ejus pla●itis ( vel praxi ) confecturum . all sober men condemn this as a dividing principle , and a most iniquous practice . see learned davenant in his sententia de pace inter evangelicos procuranda , pag. . and burroughs in his irenicum , pag. . what are your racked inferences , forced imputations , and strained misconstructions , but fancies of your own brains ? not the real guilt of your brethren ? which chimera's when ye impugn , ye but fight with your own shadow . and what are your uncertain historiolae , tittle-tattle's , and groundless surmises of your brethrens practices , but a sandy-foundation to build the weight of such heavy charges upon , as much of that guilt is ye charge upon them ? o let never your zeal and witness-bearing run at random , and flie at a venture . ( ) suppose ye be clear both in questione juris , and in questione facti , i. e. suppose the thing evil , and them guilty , yet let your zeal and witness-bearing against it keep due proportion ; and not exceed the bounds of sobriety . sure ye may , and should testifie against it in all due ways , manner and measure ; yet how will that justifie irregular and exorbitant courses of opposition ? or allow you to over-do or divide ? may it not suffice you to do that in your station which serveth to exonerate your consciences , and deliver your soul from the guilt of accession ? but must ye over-stretch and go beyond your line and measure ? go tell the indulged your thoughts of it , in seriousness and love plead with them , expostulate , obtest them . but think not that every fault , real or supposed in them , will be found before god or man a relevant ground to warrant contention , separation and division from them . if ye over-do , ye may undo ; and your right side ( as ye take it to be ) become the wrong side by mismanagement . do ye think there can be no sinful excess of heat , violence and disorder , in prosecuting a good cause ? so no less than jehu's furious march sufficient to exonerate you ? is there no golden mediocrity betwixt fiery zeal and laodicean luke-warmness ? did not worthy luther once spoil his cause much by over-acting , and excess of fervour ? let right things be done in a right manner . and know , that notwithstanding the right were upon your side , the guilt and blame of the division may nevertheless be yours ; for , even truth and righteousness may be factiously and indiscreetly pleaded and contended for , as in act. . , job . , , . if ye think and lay it down for a principle , that every thing ye conceive to be evil , is to be opposed and impugned to the yondmost extremity and renting , and nothing supposed amiss is to be tolerated and forborn for the good of the gospel , for peace and unities sake , ye may see , that abundantly confuted by mr. burroughs in his irenicum , chap. , & . but especially by your most grave , wise , tender and faithful mr. durham in his book of scandal , part . chap. . confine your selves therefore within the just bounds of holy zeal , and think it no lukewarmness to be sober ; and many of your extravagancies will hereby be cut off . v. consider in sober sadness , what cause is there for all your outcry ? what has these indulged men done , that ye rate them , and persecute them more largely and briskly than ye do any of the other ? what is the quarrel ? your edginess against them would make the world believe they were monsters of men , and have committed some horrible iniquity in going to feed the flocks of god , to which people called them , and the magistrate granted them his legal leave . why , what crime is this ? ye debacchat against them , and yet when we search into the matter , we can find no such ground of stumbling at them ; being in their qualifications not the meanest of your party ; in their lives holy and blameless , in their ministry faithful and painful lovers of truth and peace , piety and purity . and for their simple taking occasion of the magistrates grant of civil liberty to return to their charges , or to officiate and supply in another vacant place , being called thereunto by the people , until god should open a door of regress to their former charges , we wonder what fault this should be thought ! whether is it better to preach with the magistrates good leave , or without it ? seeing both those ways of preaching differ only in circumstances , which of the two are most desirable , judg ye . when god makes him do the work of a nurse-father so far , as to permit and allow them the free exercise of the ministry , which they have of christ jesus their lord and master ; does the prince his civil license vitiate their ministry , or make it uncleanly , even to that height ( as some in their paroxisms drive it ) that they may not be heard nor owned , but rejected and separated from , as the height of abominations ? is the exercise of their function the worse , that the liberty thereof is not taken at their own hand ? we hope none of you do nor will allow your selves to think so ; therefore ye will do well to take heed , that your just offence at the magistrates faults in other things , do not diminish your respect to the ordinance of god , ( viz. that just right and authority he is clothed with ) and unjustly prejudge you at the lawful acts and favours thereof ; and while ye dislike the abuse of his power , stumble not at the right use thereof . shall any think nothing pleaseth now , but what is cross the grain of authority ? we doubt not but ministers have a right to preach , and in some cases may and must make use of that right , even when the magistrate denies his permission : yet is it not much more desirable to have his leave than to want it ? specially when the peaceable preaching of the gospel is not feasible without it , because of legal restraints backed with force , as was their case . does not the lord himself direct moses ( exod. . . with . , . ) to desire leave even of pharaoh , to let israel to go and sacrifice to their god in the wilderness , let my people go , that , &c. not that their liberty did depend absolutely and quo ad jus ad rem , or in point of right , upon pharaoh's good will ; but such respect would the lord put upon the magistrates leave , though a tyrant and oppressor : and to teach all men how desirable it is , to have the permission and allowance of authority to the free exercise of religion , if it can be obtained ; therefore would the lord have this liberty intreated for . and did not moses and all israel accept this liberty when it was granted ? exod. . . or did any blame him for seeking and accepting it ? it is true this liberty was full as to persons and things , moses being specially appointed of god not to leave one hoof behind , nor a little one , nor to sacrifice in the land , exod. . , , . exod. . , . exod. . , , . yet that does not say , but others may accept of a more narrow liberty , till they get more ; not having such peremptory injunctions and reasons for the contrary , as moses had , as hereafter shall be made to appear , nor being in poss●ss●rio , as he and israel was , and therefore was not to quit one hoof ; but you are in petitorio , as esdras was , and the children of the captivity , and therefore may take what ye can get till more come , which is no quitting of what is not received , as afterwards shall be evinced . however , this instance proveth that the magistrates civil permission is no blemish , but a desirable mercy to the publick , solemn , free exercise of religion , ministry and ordinances ; and the more full the liberty be , the better it is ; whence also it followeth , that a snatch , a parcel of that liberty cannot be in it self sinful , being all of one kind , though differing in measure and degree . moreover , see how paul did obtest the very heathen governour for this favour , acts . . i beseech thee ( says he ) suffer me to speak to the people : and when he gave him license , he made use of it and preached . we should not think it a fault in you , to beg such a liberty upon your knees , much less to take it when offered ; and did not paul ( acts . , . ) preach for some years at rome , upon a negative permission , no man forbidding him , viz. neither emperour nor senate , &c. as is there marked ? and acts . . upon a positive permission , he not only apologized , but preached to agrippa . now , surely , if to preach occasionally upon such a warrant , be not ill , neither can it be to preach in a more stated way ( as your brethren do ) upon a stated permission . and who can deny , but that cyrus , darius , and artaxerxes , their grants of liberty ( recorded by esdras ) to go up to jerusalem , and build the house of the lord , and offer sacrifice , &c. there , was a mercy , and more valuable than for the children of the captivity to have gone up and done this at their own hand ? and is this your like piece of liberty , though of a lesser size , not at all to be embraced ? what would the protestants in hungary and spain esteem of the like favour ? further , did not your selves generally allow of the first indulgence ? counted it an hopeful beginning of good to your poor afflicted church ? ( as can be attested . ) how come ye then now to controvert it ? and would ye not yet ( as is informed ) accept of a general indulgence ? much more of a complete restauration of the church to her former integrity ? and is it such a sin to take part of that liberty , till god put it into the heart of the magistrate to grant more ? doth magis & minus variare speciem ? will ye either have all or nothing , and despise a day of small things ? ( contrary to the saints humble and good way of old , esdras . . v. , . and . , . ) and will ye cast at the kind , because of defect in the measure ? add to this , that ye did all unanimously submit to the magistrates outi●g you of your charges , by his banishing you therefrom , as solomon did abiathar ( though here it was just , but in your case undeserved . ) now , sith this was the exercise of a privative power about the matters of god , and consequently near in kin to that papal supremacy which ye so stumble at ; strange it is to find you opponing against this grant of indulgence , which is but an act of his cumulative or auxiliary power , like a nurse-father , opening the door again which he had formerly shut . ye know that dictate of natures light , ejus est restituere , cujus est destituere , without doubt much more rightfully may he license you to return to your watch-towers , than beat you from them ; and more laudably may ye submit to the one than to the other . if ye say , it was your fault to submit to his ejecting you , and therefore no argument can be drawn from it to allow his reponing you : beside that , herein ye condemn your selves , and the rest of the generation of the righteous in scotland , england , and ireland ; and much may be said from scripture and reason , to justifie that submission ; we humbly beg further to be informed , if ye repent of it , where is your confession ? and where are the fruits of your repentance ? why do you not go to your charges again , but persist in submission to your ejection ? but to come nearer the purpose : what is it displeaseth you at your brethrens deed ? i. is it the name of indulgence ? answ . we hope ye will not contend about names and words , tim. . . were not such litigations a bogling at shadows ? and would savour of levity or captiousness ? what is such an indulgence , but a dispensing with the severity of the law , letting them have access to the publick , peaceable exercise of their ministry , from which the law did debar them ? and may not the magistrate dispense with his own law , in whole or in part , and call this very properly an indulgence ? but away with striving about words ! call it a permission , toleration , or license , or what ye will , so ye but agree about the thing . ii. does it offend you that the magistrate intermedleth with church-affairs ? answ . we expect also this not to be your scruple ; judging ye still adhere to the doctrine of your church , and of all the reformed , expressed in their confessions of faith , and the writings of their worthies against the papists , anabaptists , and erastians ; who ( tho' against erastians ) they deny the magistrate any power in sacris , or formally and intrinsecally ecclesiastical , called in scripture the power of the keys , yet ( against the papists and anabaptists ) they attribute unto him an imperative power circa sacra , about the matters of god , formally civil , and only objectively ecclesiastical , and to be put forth modo civili , in a civil way , and by civil means : so that there is nothing so sacred in the visible matters of religion , but it is the object of his care and procuratorship , and his power to be conversant about it , in manner competent , ( as amesius tells , cas . consc . lib. . cap. . thes . . ) he being custos & vindex utriusque tabulae , keeper of both tables of the law , of the first as well as of the second , as the fourth command appointeth ; whence it is called by some eminent divines , the magistrates charter for taking care of religion ; which is also confirmed from deut. . . & deut. . , . with josh . . , , . this power , and by virtue of it , his just intermedling for the good of religion , is uncontroverted by orthodox divines , and confirmed by that applauded practice of artaxerxes , decreeing , ezra . . whatsoever is commanded by the god of heaven , let it be diligently done for the house of the god of heaven , &c. which power ( if through error or wickedness ) the magistrate imploy for the hurt , rather than for the good of the church , ( though that be a fault ) yet we judg ye will not call it erastianism , or an usurpation of an unlawful power , but an abuse or misapplication of a lawful ; and will count him peccant in the matter , not in the authority or power . now this power of his is extended by divines to no less , if not to more , than your indulgence ( in so far as it is accepted by the brethren ) amounts unto . and that , conform to the word of god in the commended practices of several kings mentioned in scripture , who warrantably took upon them by vertue of their calling to do as much and more , without the least imputation of invading the priestly or spiritual power ; aarons rod , and judahs scepters , remaining still distinct notwithstanding . particularly , did not hezekiah in chron. . . open the doors of the house of the lord , which had been shut for a long time , as v. . and v. . it is said , he brought in the priests and levites . — and v. . he puts them to their work , to sanctifie and cleanse the house . and v. . to offer sacrifices is commanded by him . — and v. . he set ( or restored to their place ) the levites in the house of the lord with cymbals , &c. and v. . commanded them to sing praise , &c. now in all these things the priests and levites did give obedience not only out of duty to god , as obliged to do these things by virtue of their office , but also out of respect to the kings commandment , as ye find v. , . the like is said , chron. . . that josias set the priests in their charges . from these citations note three things : ( ) that as it is proper to the spiritual officers of the house of god operari in sacris , or elicitively to act in the exercises of religion ; so it is not incompetent to the civil ruler to command , and put forth his authority about the same imperatively , but jure he may , yea ex officio he ought to do so ; even to put the church-officers to their duty and work , when need requireth ; and that not only by removing restraints and impediments , nor by naked permission only , but even by way of authoritative order and command . as there , the prince appointeth , and the priest acteth . ( ) that this is especially competent , yea incumbent to him , in statu ecclesiae turbato , vel corrupto , in a perturbed or corrupted state of the church , such as then was , and as yours was and is . ( ) that it is no crime for the ministers of the lord to obey the magistrate in such a case . as the magistrate acteth no erastianism , nor papal supremacy in this kind of doing ; so neither does the minister homologate or involve himself in any such crime , nor is to be loaded with such imputations in and for going along ( in his place ) with such appointments of the magistrate . however uzziah was faulty in the one sort ( as chron. . , . ) and jeroboam in the other sort of solecisms in the exercise of magistratical power about religion , ( as king. . , , , , . ) uzziah invading the priests office , like an erastian indeed , and jeroboam usurping that unlawful supremacy like lord and head of the church ; yet good hezekiah did neither of them : nor does any other prince , who contains himself within his line , as hezekiah did . and the licensing of your ministers to return to their publick stations , is no other , ( as afterward shall be cleared ) but most like unto hezekiahs practice in several points above rehearsed . and consequently no fault in your ministers acceptance thereof in so far as it is accepted by them . add to this jehoshaphats approved practice in chron. . , & where we find he sent the levites to teach the lords word in divers places of the land ; who went accordingly . whence it is evident , ( ) that it is not repugnant to the word of god , that in some cases , specially in a lapsed case of the church , the magistrate may dispose upon ministers , as to place and parts of a land , where they may exercise their ministry , at least for a time ; may send them here and there , the churches need calling for it : and that this is no proper ecclesiastical planting or transplanting of ministers ( as some invidiously term it ) , but only a civil authorization as to exercising their function in such a place for longer or shorter time , as need may be . ( ) it is evident also here , that in such a case , the pastors ministerial mission or commission to teach and preach , is not from the magistrate , but from the lord ; nor do they innovate or renounce their commission from the lord , by receiving the magistrates superadded mission or command and legal warrant ; nor do they therefore cease to be christs ministers or ambassadors in his name , or become council-curates , ( as some opprobriously and injuriously alledg ) because the king by his council adds his civil sanction to the authority they have of christ . who can say , their levites were jehoshaphats curates , and not the lords ministers , for undergoing the like appointment of his power ? does the magistrates supervenient authority diminish or enervate the antecedent intrinsick power and spiritual authority of their office , or alter its nature ? is christs commission to his ambassadors , and the magistrates adding his civil warrant ( kissing and serving the son of god therein , as psal . . , . ) destructive and subversive , and not rather corroborative one of another ; and may sweetly conspire together , as being , though diversa , yet not adversa ; and contrary one to another ? subordinata , & subservientia , non pugnant . add to all this , that several of your general assemblies , the supreme court of christ in your church , when they were ( as oft they were ) indicted and convocate by the kings authority , and upon his command and proclamation did sit ; were they ( pray you ) therefore but erastian courts and synagogues , deriving all their authority from the king , and acting in his name , like other civil judicatories of the kingdom , i. e. the session or parliament ? were they in this case not at all christs court , nor acting in his name as his ambassadors , and not the kings ? was this in them a renouncing of christs headship , and an acknowledging of another lord and master , and a taking of commission from the civil magistrate ? &c. we hope none will be so absurd as to affirm it , or to think that the magistrates auxiliary deed , and their making use of it , was derogatory either to christs kingly office , or to the assemblies intrinsick power , or altered their nature from being purely spiritual courts of christ . even so , what more does the prince , his permitting or appointing actual ministers to exercise their office here or there , in this broken state of the church , constitute them his curates or delegates ? or state them guilty of homologating an erastian power , and establishing a spiritual supremacy in the magistrate ? or infer them to be such as may not say to people , over you hath the holy ghost made us overseers , but the king ? certainly if the superaddition of the magistrates authority do not innovate nor prejudice the assemblies authority in the exercise of government ; neither doth it the ministers in the exercise of their function . the magistrate herein but serves the lord and his christ , and his spouse the church , and her ministry , but acts not as in christs stead as her head and lord. q. the magistrate his interposing his authority in this case , what place holds it then , say ye ? answ . it is not constitutive of their office ( as was in the case of these priests whom jeroboam did make and constitute of the lowest of the people ) , but cumulative to it , ( accumulando jura juribus ) in a subservient and extrinsick way ; and corroborative of its exercise , and determineth them in the exercise thereof as to some circumstances , namely the place or places of the land , where they are to exercise their work . now this power aforesaid being not improper to kings under the old testament , why may they not under the new put forth the like , as your own divines hold , and none but the papists and anabaptists deny ? and if they may in some cases appoint , much more permit , as your indulgence is , as hereafter shall be made to appear . to this scriptural doctrine agreeth : ( ) that general assertion , that to the prince it belongeth as nurse-father of the church , to take care , and do what in him lyes , in ways and by means congruous to his capacity and sphere , that indigent people be provided with a godly and well-qualified ministry ; as learned mr. gillespy ( that noble antagonist of the erastian exorbitancies of the civil power ) hath it in his hundred and eleven propositions , propos . . and before him , famous mr. welsh , in his epistle dedicatory to king james , prefixed to his piece against popery , speaking of the forementioned practices of hezekiah and jehoshaphat , saith to the king , follow these examples , sir ; send pastors through all the borders of your kingdom to teach your subjects the law of the lord their god , &c. we hope ye will not think or say that eminent man of god ( who suffered so much for asserting the churches rights , and withstanding the incroachments of the time ) doth here teach the king erastian principles or practices , or papal and spiritual supremacy ; and yet as much doth he teach , as your indulgence amounts unto , in what of it is accepted by the brethren . ( ) ponder how particularly your church concedeth to the magistrate a power to put ministers to particular charges , when the church is not in her ordinary or well setled case : as in the second book of discipline , chap. . § . last , they say , that kings and princes that be godly , may by their authority , when the kirk is corrupted , and all things out of order , place ministers , and restore the true service of the lord , after the example of some godly kings of judah , &c. so blessed mr. welsh in the formentioned epistle to king james , approves of the king his being desirous ( as he had professed in two assemblies ) to plant every parish within his kingdom with a pastor . which expressions of placing and planting , used in the foresaid citations , albeit they mean not of ordaining and making of ministers constitutively , but only a setling of ministers ( already ordained ) in particular places ; yet surely they import no less than the word [ appoint ] in the first indulgence , and more than the grant of the second , which only permits ministers to preach in such and such vacant congregations . yea further , in the first book of discipline , pag. . it is expresly allowed to the magistrate in such a case to appoint ministers to certain provinces and charges . § . if any except here that this power is ascribed only to godly magistrates , such as hezekiah , &c. was . to this we say three things : ( ) is it not hard to seclude any prince professing the gospel , and being a member of the visible church , from the claim at least of foederal holiness , notwithstanding he have his own personal faults ? see job . . ( ) ye know it is a popish principle to say , dominium fundatur in gratia , that soveraignty and power is grounded on grace and piety . whence it is when kings change their religion , and turn protestant ( which they call heresie ) the pope declareth them fallen from their regality , exauctorats and deposeth them . your confession of faith teacheth otherwise , chap. . § . . that infidelity or difference of religion does not make void the magistrates just and legal authority . hence mr. calderwood , mr. rutherford , and others of your writers teach , that neither doth piety add , nor impiety detract any legal power , but only inable or disable to the right use of his power . in vain therefore use ye the distinction here betwixt godly and ungodly magistrates , as if their legal power were not the same . ( ) we find in scripture , even pagan princes warrantably claiming and exercising such-like power about matters of religion , as cyrus , darius , artaxerxes and others . from all which considerations we see it plain , that the regal power is not augmented by the princes religiousness , nor diminished by his irreligion ; but both the godly and ungodly magistrate have the same power about religion ; though it be true , that without piety he will not have the sanctified , nor readily any discreet and good use of it . and indeed , if religion were a ground of authority and power about the matters of god , then all saints and religious persons should have that power , and be as kings and magistrates to act hezekiahs part ; for , a quatenus ad omne valet consequentia . as for the phrase used in the forecited place of the book of discipline , seeming to limit the power circa sacra to godly magistrates ; we answer , the word godly is added there , not reduplicatively , but specificatively , that is , not as a diacritical limiting designation , ( or restriction of the power to piety ) but as a plain qualification of the persons who find mercy to use that power well , which ( of right ) is common , and equally due to princes in the like case . if again any say , these kings of judah were prophets , and that power about religion ( forementioned ) appertained to them as prophets only , and consequently not to any kings now adays ; nor can their example be for imitation . we answer , this is a great mistake ; how will it ever be proved that hezekiah and jehoshaphat were prophets , or clothed with any extraordinary power , incompetent to other kings ? what ground in scripture is there for this ? and how can ye believe it without a scripture-warrant ? moreover , we ask , were the heathen kings , forementioned , prophets ? and yet they intermedled in like manner about affairs of religion . if any further say , howbeit such a power to interpose so far in and about ecclesiastical matters , to redress and settle things out of course , &c. be competent to other magistrates in a broken state of the church ; yet who can allow it to him who is , or hath been the troubler of the church himself ? to this the answer is , ( . ) what reason can there be to debar such an one from interposing to redress what himself hath overturned , more than his successor ? ( for ye grant one may justly interpose thus to reform what his predecessor marred : ) what binds up a king from doing the same , as to what himself hath disordered ? who will say , but manasseh might have done , in the case of the church by himself corrupted , whatever jehoshaphat or hezekiah did , in her case , perverted by others ? would not reason say , the prince is the more obliged to interpone his power , and extend it as far as others for her relief , that himself was the author of her malady ? and to open the door to ministers which himself did shut ? and to build what he formerly did destroy ? can any relevant exception be assigned against this ? if ye say , this tends to incourage the magistrate to trouble and break the church , and cast matters in confusion , that he may have the more latitude of power to act in church-matters . answ . not at all ; because with no reason can it be said , the allowing him power to do good and heal , does natively and justly incourage and warrant him to take power to hurt and do ill . we humbly suppose it rather implies a challenge : certain it is , no man may do evil that good may come of it , nor does the good that results upon occasion of evil , justifie bigones , nor encourage to more in the future . consider ( . ) that it is not properly his fault of perturbing the church , but her necessity and his office , which alloweth him to intermeddle so far ; and therefore , as his fault obligeth him to repentance , ( specially if it was done upon wicked design , to get scouthroom to act extraordinarily in restoring her again ) so it cannot justly be reckoned to deprive him of power to put things in order again , in as far as may be congruous to any other princes , who had not injured the church themselves . but on the contrary , his doing her wrong , obligeth him the more to make amends : a chyrurgeon , who cuts his pupils arm , to try an experiment of his art and balsom upon it , has he not as good right to heal it again himself as any other ? yea , is he not the more concerned to do the cure ? his foolish or wicked practice in being the author of the sore , does not disoblige him from , but rather oblige him unto , the cure. now lay what is said together , and sith thereby it is evident that the magistrate may , in an extraordinary case , put forth himself lawfully ( without usurping ecclesiastical power , properly so called , or encroaching upon the churches rights ) to allocate ministers to certain places ; may he not much more remove the legal bars ( in whole or in part ) which debarred your ministers from the free exercise of their office , and permit them access to return to their charges , or to officiate in some other vacancies ? which is your very case ; wherein your ministers did not take his license , as sufficient to state them in a pastoral relation to these congregations ; but beside , they had the peoples call to determine and engage them to exercise their ministry there for the time ; so all they owe unto , and hold of the magistrate , is , that eatenus removet prohibens ; t. . he so far takes off the legal restraint , under the force whereof they did lye , and by permission and allowance of his authority , they are freed of danger of the law , in the publick exercise of their office there ; a thing which he was ( in duty ) obliged to do , and they to take hold of , and to count it a mercy and priviledg to have it . but say ye , had he rescinded , revoked , and annulled the act at glasgow , that outed them , it had been clearer to have been so : but when he lets that stand , and only gives a new permission or mandate to preach , that looks like more . ans . not only the act of council at glasgow , by which they were outed of their charges , but all other acts and laws by which they were restrained from the exercise of their ministry any where within scotland , unless they conformed , are certainly sufficiently taken off the fyle , as to them . for , the king having the executive power of the law , albeit he did not fully repeal and rescind those acts and laws , yet by his indulgence suspendeth them , as to the indulged : and albeit this be not done in terminis , yet directly , formally , and expresly , yet materially and virtually , in allowing them to exercise their office in such and such places , any laws to the contrary notwithstanding . for , when the legislative , or supreme administrator , permits or commands a thing contrary to the standing laws , in all law it is understood to exempt and priviledge these persons from the said laws , and to indulge them a liberty and immunity from these statutes . now , this is the present indulgence ; the native effect and operation whereof is , to dispense with the legal inhibition these ministers were under , but not at all to invest them with new spiritual power to officiate , as some invidiously alledge . and by this dispensation , the indulged to their own charges are really and in effect restored in integrum , and put in statu quo prius , as to any liberty the laws debarred them from , in respect of their ministry there ; and these indulged to other parts , are so far restored , as to be indempnified and licensed to preach there , being before interdicted to preach any where . and by virtue of this indulgence , neither the one nor the other sort of these ministers do officiate upon a new ministerial title ( as is unjustly alledged ) the indulgence conferring or pretending to confer no such thing ; only it gives them a new legal immunity to exercise their old ministry in such and such places . any that wrest the interpretation of this indulged liberty to any other sense , seems to us , and all unprejudiced men , to put a sinister and malicious gloss upon it . but in the third place , perhaps ye will say , it is not the simple taking a license from the magistrate , which offends you ; but it is the particular nature and tenour of this indulgence , as under such and such sinful circumstances , which seems to illegitimate it . ans . what are these ? o , say ye , first , in general , are not these acts of council , wherein the indulgence consists and is comprehended , very ugly in several points , and various respects ? is not their deed then , in accepting such an ill circumstantiated liberty , most disallowable ? for answer to this , let us . consider , what these acts are ? ( next ) how far the indulged ministers has accepted , or not accepted , the same . and ( . ) what your exceptions are , against what they have done . as for the acts of council relating to this liberty , they are namely two . the one ordereth the ministers therein named , to repair to such and such parishes as are therein expressed , and there to remain confined , permitting them to preach in the said parishes , and exercise their ministry there . this is properly the act of indulgence . the other act , which followed the former , appointeth the indulged to observe several things , which they call rules , viz. . not to baptize any children , except of the parishes to which they are confined , or of their neighbour-parishes , if vacant . . to celebrate their communions all in one day . . that they preach only in the kirk , and not in the kirk-yard , nor in other places of the parish , under an heavy pain . . that they depart not forth of their parishes without leave . . that in their exercise of discipline , the cases formally referrable to presbyteries , be by them referred to the conformists meetings , which now are in place of presbyteries . . to pay the bursars and clarks their fees , as formerly wont to be . this act is not of indulgence , but rather of restrictions . now say ye , how could the magistrate lawfully make , or ministers accept , such an indulgence , namely , so clogged ? to answer this , it is necessary ( in the next place ) to consider what these ministers have done , and what is the true state of the controversie between you and them . to which we say in the general , that it is no small injury done to them , to charge them with all and every thing comprehended in these acts , as if they had swallowed all down in gross , without exception of any . and consequently , it is a great mistake to think , whatever may be justly objected against sundry of those things so enacted , does militate against them and their deed , seeing they disclaim and never owned most of these things more than those do who reject all . and is it not hard from their acceptance of a part , viz. the naked permitted liberty , to infer and cast upon them an homologation of the whole contents of these acts ? here then it would be remembred what the true state of the question is : which is not , ( ) whether these acts forementioned be in all things approvable and rightly done ? but what in all or any of these acts might be and is lawfully done ? particularly , whether or not the magistrate might and did jure order these ministers , and repair unto , and grant them a permission to preach and exercise the other parts of their ministry in such and such places as are mentioned in the act ? in a complex act there may be many things largely censurable , and very sinful , upon the magistrates part ; yet may there be other things not unwarrantable . and in that case the one are not to be condemned out of distaste at the other . and certainly , whatever incompetency or iniquity may be alledged to be in other points of these acts , it will be hard to find any in the particular forementioned , viz. the indulged liberty . ( ) it is not so much to be queried , what is lawfully , as what is legally done in this by the magistrate ; for a thing ( for example , the confinement of a godly minister for no fault ) may be very unlawfully and unjustly done , and a real sin upon the magistrates part , like other acts of injustice ; yet may it be legally done , that is to say , not heterogeneous and incompetent to his office , not beyond the bounds of his power ; and therefore cannot therein be counted an usurper ( or erastian ) , though perhaps not free of iniquity . this consideration well observed , may help to clear a frequent mistake in many simple people who count every act of injustice real or supposed in the ruler about matters of religion , an act of erastianism or papal supremacy . ( ) neither is the question so much , what has the magistrate done in all this , as , what has the ministers accepted , or submitted unto ? for , perhaps there are many more things enacted by him , than imbraced by them . now what are the ministers concerned farther , than as to what they have accepted , or yielded submission unto ? let each bear their own burden , and not every thing , wherein it is supposed the magistrate hath done amiss , be charged upon the ministers . — ( ) it is not the question either , whether or not it be lawful for ministers to have closed with the whole complex of both these acts ? this ye know they never did ; nor do they allow of all contained in these acts more than you do . but the question is , whether might they lawfully accept of , or submit unto any thing contained therein , rejecting the rest as evil , or inconvenient ; particularly , whether they might upon the above-mentioned order , repair to such and such parishes , and there preach the gospel , and exercise the other parts of their ministry , being permitted by the magistrate , and also called thereunto by the people , and this for such time only ( in case it be not their former charge ) until they should have regress to their former parishes ? this ye know is all they did embrace . and in a complex busisiness , why might not the good be taken hold of , and the evil abstracted from , waved , and laid by ? as is directed in the like cases , thes . . . prove all things , says the apostle , and held fast that which is good . and commended in isa . . . heb. . ult . and recommended in phil. . , . and whatever the magistrate did overstretch in , what is it to the ministers if they did not close with these excesses , as they did not ? if ye say , the circumstances , or concomitants or parts of an action cannot be morally abstracted from , or separated the one from the other , seeing all concurs to make up the morality of the action ; therefore no circumstances or parts of the magistrates deed can be by the indulged separate , more than by himself . ans . howbeit the circumstances of the action cannot be justly waved by the agent , as relating properly to him ; yet no doubt but the patient well may ; and false it is to say , all the circumstances upon the agents part , does also terminate upon the patient , and reflect upon the one as well as upon the other ; as both philosophy and divinity teacheth . it is not therefore to be doubted but a complex frame of indulgence , clothed with vicious circumstances , and stuffed with ill ingredients upon the granters part , might very well be divided by the accepters , and the good separated from the bad , very warrantably ; and this to be counted no more logical abstraction , but wise and christian discretion and discrimination ; and consequently they ought not to be charged in this case , with accepting the indulgence as circumstantiat in the magistrate . but more of this after . and so they are not accessary to the guilt may be complicated in it , as it comes from the magistrate . from all which ye see , it is no small perversion of the state of the question , as it is moulded by some in their papers , making it to be this ; whether the magistrate , by virtue of his office , may , of himself , and immediately without the church , and the previous election of the people , assign and send ministers to particular churches , to take the fixed and pastoral oversight of them ? and prescribe rules and directions to them , for the exercise of their ministry , and confine them to the said congregations ? and then impugning this multiplex question , renders their exceptions against it , as reasons why they could not embrace the indulgence , as their brethren have done : as if exceptions at any part of the magistrates deed , did justifie their refusing of the whole , and reflected guilt upon those who did not wholly reject it as they did ; or as if their brethren embraced all and whole of it , not separating the good from the evil . what unfair dealing is this ? and among the many iniquities observable in this framing of the question ( whereof severals shall be spoken to afterwards , namely , concerning the confinement , and act of regulation ) these two at present would be noticed . i. that more is charged upon the magistrate , than really he hath done , namely , . it is supponed , that by the indulgence he gives the ministers a spiritual potestative mission ( as they call it ) for preaching to such congregations , and taking pastoral charge thereof : hence they frame their arguments to militate against the indulgence , as if therein the magistrate took upon him the spiritual power of the church in ordination and admission . whereas all his mission or assignment is purely civil and local ( as appeareth by the tenor of the act ) ordering them to repair to such parishes , and be confined therein ; only ( for mitigation of their confinement ) he permits and allows them also liberty to preach there , yet leaving it to peoples liberty to call them , and to their own liberty to embrace that call , to exercise their ministry there , or not , as they pleased ; ( for their freaching is not enjoyned , but permitted . ) whence it is plain , there was no moral or spiritual mission , nor ecclesiastical admission and setting of these ministers over these congregations , like that in tit. . . acts . ( unless ye call confinement to the place , with a civil permission to preach there , a spiritual and potestative mission which were absurd . ) and therefore all the arguments mustered up ( upon this account ) against the indulged liberty cum larvis luctantur , fights with their own fancy only , and makes nothing against the true question . yea further , suppose there had been some sort of political mission , or appointment and command , such as jehoshaphat gave to the levites , and hezekiah to the priests , as aforesaid ; yet that differs toto genere from an ecclesiastical mission , such as the church gave barnabas and paul , act. . , . the magistrates political appointment in this case , being not a spiritual authorization in the name of christ , but merely a legal warrant ; not conferring intrinsick power and right to preach , or be pastors to these people , but only warranting them ( in point of law ) to exercise their ministry to and among them . . it is supponed here , that the ministers are sent to take the fixed and pastoral charge of these congregations ; whereas there is no such thing in the act ; but simply a confining , with a license to preach , without defining in what capacity , whether as a stated pastor of that people , or in occasional way only , as they and the people should agree : so that as their assignment is but local , their liberty but legal and permissive , their capacity also of preaching there is left undetermined by the magistrate . thus ye see , more is alledged ( in this sort of stating the question ) to be done by the magistrate , than indeed he hath done . how unequal is this , that men should put their commentary and sense of the matter , for the text ! and state the question according to their mistaken notion , and not according to truth ? the second enquiry in this stating of the question , and in determining and impugning thereof as so stated , is , that it is supposed the contents of the councils acts were proposed to be accepted all and whole together , or else none , and nothing at all : and that these who have embraced the indulged liberty , have joyned with all . whereas , so notorious it is , that neither the one nor the other is true , that we need not insist to demonstrate the same . and if any be so bold , as to affirm the contrary , it is incumbent to them to prove it , before their asserting can merit any credit with rational men. in sum then , the genuine and plain state of the question is , whether or no , when the law had outed you all of your charges , and restrained you most severely from all publick , free , and peaceable exercise of your ministry , in any part of the kirk and kingdom of scotland ; whether or not ( i say ) did the magistrate lawfully dispense with , and take off that restraint , as to some persons and places ? and the ministers thereby licensed , did they lawfully make use of that liberty , being withal most seriously called thereunto by the people ? now , what is exceptable against this ? this is the true state of the controversie betwixt you and your brethren ; what is your quarrel at it ? there are nine particular objections ( the most material and most usual , so far as we can learn ) which here we shall consider and answer , finding them not relevant to prove the conclusion they drive at . . some say , this indulgence it is mere erastianism , and an homologation of the supremacy . . they object the rules and instructions forementioned . . some alledg this preaching with the magistrates permission and allowance , to be a renouncing of their former commission from jesus christ , and a taking of a new one from the magistrate , and an holding of their ministry of him with subjection unto him , and dependance upon him , like other civil judges of the land. . divers offend at the magistrates intent and design in this indulgence . . others stumble at the narrowness of the liberty , as to persons and places ; and also as to the extent of the exercise of government permitted to these ministers . . the manner of their entry is quarrelled by some , as not being called by the people , nor admitted by order of presbytery , as wont to be . . other some cry out for want of a testimony against the magistrates incroachments , and other sad grievances , in these and other of his acts. . some exagitates them for their confinement , yea for their fixing at all , though it be in their former charge . . others stumble at this , that so many other zealous and godly ministers and people are against it , and all the godly divided about it . to all these we shall say somewhat shortly , to clear the mistakes therein . as to the first , o says some , is not this indulgence a master-piece of the states erastianism , and of the prince his sinful supremacy now asserted by law ? and consequently the accepting thereof , an homologating and supporting of both ? upon this head , how admirably do some triumph , insult , yea and anathematize the indulgence , and all that has accepted thereof , or hears the indulged men ! what fierce outcryes are made , especially by some novices and vulgars , harping continually ( almost ) upon this string , as their most melodious musick to please themselves with , and their greatest argument to decry these licensed brethren by ; canting these jingling vocables of supremacy , homologat , erastian , ad ravim usque : and yet knows not perhaps what they say , nor whereof they affirm ; nor are able at all to rid marches , and distinctly tell what power about ecclesiastick matters does of right belong to the magistrate , and what not ; nor what is erastianism , or sinful supremacy , or homologating of either . experti loquimur . but let all that quarrel upon this score , seriously ponder these few things , which we presume to lay before them ▪ to take off their offence as to this : ( ) be ye well assured , your indulged brethren and ye agree well enough in thesi ( in the general ) , that no erastianism , nor unlawful supremacy ( properly and truly so called ) is to be complied with ? they abhor both as much as you do . all the difference is about the hypothesis ( or particular application ) ; that they cannot call every thing so , which you do call so ; particularly , that in this indulged liberty , as accepted by them , they can see neither of these . if you see further than they , bring forth your strong reasons , plead with them in love , and labour to convince them . mean time be sober till ye prove your assertions demonstratively , and not ●y confident averring , nor by weak and unconcluding reasons . certainly fortia , non phalerata , soft words and hard arguments were your best for convincing and reclaiming your honest brethren , in case they err here . ( ) as for the charge of erastianism , let it be considered what is erastianism , but when the magistrate usurps in whole or in part the internal ; proper , formal spiritual power of church-government ( called in scripture , the power of the keys of the kingdom of heaven ) ? and so wresting these keys out of the kirks hand , and ingrossing them to himself , accordingly exerciseth them , or delegates them to others . now who can warrantably say , this indulged liberty is of that nature ? being meerly a civil or legal permission to exercise their ministry , notwithstanding the laws to the contrary . whatever may be deemed of the act of instructions so called , ( wherein they are not much concerned , as after may be cleared ) , surely this act of licensing them to preach in such and such places , is no proper , formal , intrinsick act of the power of the keys ( no more than the roman governours permitting of paul to preach , act. . , . & . . ) but rather an act of the regal scepter ; and is only objectively ecclesiastical : and consequently no erastianism , nor without the verge of the prince his just power , as hath been formerly shewed . any that are contrary minded , we humbly judg their brethren will think themselves much obliged to them , if they will convince them of their mistake in this , if there be any . mean time it is hoped these opponents will not obtrude big words , or bold assertions , or crafty insinuations , instead of solid probations . let school doctors digladiat nimbly among themselves , contending for the palm of victory , rather than for verity ; and let them dictate to their disciples , as if their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their bare authority were enough to rest upon . it is hoped divines and christians will be far from such humours and practices ; and will know , that every man must live by his own faith , and not implicitely upon anothors word . convince your brethren then of what erastianism , or overstretch of the magistrate his power is in this particular , as accepted by them , if ye find any in it ; and hear what they have to say for themselves , before ye condemn them , and divide from them , as is taught you , joh. . . & . . act. . . yea , suppose the magistrate had stretched a little beyond his ordinary line , in the permission granted ( which yet we see not ) , nevertheless may not the extraordinary case of the church do much to excuse , yea purge it of crime ? in which case the most strict presbyterians and anti-erastian divines are loth to charge him with the odious imputation of erastianism . read your worthy mr. gillespy , aarons rod , pag. . in extraordinary cases ( says he ) when church-government doth degenerate into tyranny ( as under popery it is for the most part ) then — the christian magistrate may and ought to do divers things in and for religion , and interpose his authority divers ways , so as doth not belong unto his — administration , ordinarily in a reformed and well constituted church : because exextraordinary diseases must have extraordinary remedies . to this same purpose speaks blessed mr. rutherford in his due right of presbytery , pag. . here more is conceded by your strictest writers , than the accepted liberty amounts unto . ( ) as for the supremacy , as it is now established by law , parliament d , caroli . sess . . act. . we shall not at present scan the nature of it , whether it be only ( as some of your selves judg ) a meer civil supremacy about ecclesiastical persons and things , but exalted to a dangerous height , devolving all the legal power ( about matters of religion ) into the kings hand , making him absolute , and intirely supreme , quo ad statum politicum , that is , in point of civil prerogative , arbitrary ; so as he may do in church-matters ( in point of law or civil capacity ) as he thinks fit , without advice or consent of the estates of parliament ? or whether it be ( as most others judg ) a caesarec-papatus ( as they speak ) or a papal , spiritual supremacy , [ that is ] a power to dispose absolutely in a soveraign , arbitrary , despotical way , ( as well in genere ethico , as in genere politico ) , upon the matters mentioned in that act ; particularly , to settle what kind or form of government in the church he pleaseth , and in whose hands he pleaseth ; as if all the spiritual power of church-government were in him as head and fountain , and modellable by him at pleasure ; even as the civil perhaps at first was ? and consequently it be an high incroachment upon christs crown , to whom alone , as the only king , head , and monarch of his church , such a transcendent power and priviledg does belong ? we say , we judg it not necessary to examine that matter now . but this we may offer to be considered , that whatever overstretch of the soveraigns power be made in that act of supremacy , as ( upon the one hand ) none of the indulged alloweth thereof , more than any others ; but lament , as much as any , the extravagancies of this or any other acts of parliament , tending to the prejudice of our lord jesus christ his rights , or of the intrinsick rights and liberties of his church ; so ( upon the other hand ) who can , with any reason affirm , that this indulged liberty ( in so far as it is accepted by your brethren ) hath any affinity with such a papal supremacy , or is a part of the unclean thing that might not be touched ? any that aver it to be so , we humbly beg their reasons : for , hitherto we have seen few , but some quirks and iniquous lame similitudes and comparisons , which are not argumentative , as all scholars know , however taking they be with the vulgar ; and you know too , that , affirmanti incumbit probatio , the burden of probation is incumbent to the pursuer . nevertheless ( for exculpation ) we shall lay before you five reasons , which we humbly judg may weigh much with any sober and unprejudicate persons to evidence the contrary . ( ) consider the nature of this toleration or indulgence : it is ( as hath been shewed already ) meerly an act of supreme civil power circa sacra , and therefore differs toto genere ( as far as heaven from earth ) , from spiritual supremacy , and is nothing of kindred to it ; though somewhat of the name . ( ) a politico-papatus , or papal spiritual supremacy , seated in caesar , consists ( as writers define it ) in a power to alter and dispose arbitrarily upon christs institutions , and to pervert the frame of religion at pleasure , and to set up humane institutions in their room , as jeroboam did . but this indulged liberty is not of that nature , but rather an act of his power as nurse-father to the church , ( isa . . . ) being for restoring and countenancing christs own ministers and ordinances , and not of humane inventions , for promoving , not subverting of religion ; for the good , not the hurt of the church ; an auxiliary , not a privative exercise of his power . therefore being an act of the magistrates kissing the son of god , ( psal . . . ) and ministring to the church in her distress , ( as isa . . . ) surely it can be no act of that papal supremacy , derogatory to christs prerogative . who can ( with the least grain of reason ) say , that the restoring ( in any part ) of christs ministers and ordinances , is a taking of christs crown off his head , ( as some of you call the indulgence ) and not rather an helping to put it on ? ( ) manifest it is , that the supremacy asserted in that act of parliament , relates directly only to the matter of church-government , the disposal thereof , and of persons to be imployed therein , and matters to be treated therein . and so whatever disposal of the key of discipline it put into the prince his hand , yet no ways medleth with the key of doctrine , and power of order , i. e. the investing of men with the power of preaching , and ministring the sacraments ; for the act expresly limits the supremacy to the ordering and disposal of the external government of the church . but so it is , that this indulged liberty ( as the copies of the act which we have happened to see , bears ) is only , a permission to preach ( including virtually a permission to administer the sacraments also ) , but no license is mentioned therein to exercise church-government ( albeit they venture upon some parts of government also , competent to a congregation , being connived at therein ) ; whence it followed , the indulgence granted them can be no efflux of that supremacy , being not ad idem . or if the act of indulgence be of this tenor ( as is said some other copies bear ) permitting them to preach and exercise other parts of their ministry ; thence it is evident that the act of indulgence presupposes their power and right to preach , &c. and that they have a ministry , and intrinsick right to exercise all its parts , antecedently to that indulged liberty ; but no way confers a new copy-hold of their ministry : only it says , the exercise thereof was under a civil inhibition , or legal restraint , which this indulgence takes off . but so it is , that the supremacy , as it is asserted , is a power of conferring power of the matters therein expressed ( as ye your selves grant ) as if the prince were head and fountain thereof . sith therefore by the indulgence the power of preaching and exercising the other parts of the ministry is not delegate , nor derived unto them , but only the free and peaceable exercise thereof permitted , and restraints removed , plain it is that the indulgence is no act of that supremacy . and that even the power of kirk-sessions , or consistorial parts of government exercised by them , differs specifically , and in kind , from what the supremacy can pretend to give . . power of indulging is a thing which the magistrate uncontrovertedly had , and did exercise anteriorly to the foresaid assertion of supremacy ; for the first indulgence was before it , and your selves grant that that act assertory of the supremacy is not declarative only , ( though it run in that style , as the stylus curiae ) but collative and constitutive , conferring upon him more than ever he had before , else why did not ye and your church resent it before that assertion of it ? whence it follows , that the indulging power is not a proper part of that new supremacy , being existent before it had a being ; nor the act of indulgence , a native product of that supremacy , but the efflux of a power prior unto it . . the act of indulgence does not , in any the least syllable or jot of its tenor , refer unto , or bottom it self upon , the asserted supremacy ; but runs in common form and style of other civil acts of the council . whereas it is observable , that the act of restitution of the bishops , and the act anent constitution of their national synod , are expresly founded upon the kings supremacy , as the narratives thereof bear . whence it is manifest , that even the magistrate himself did not grant the indulgence as an act of that spiritual supremacy , that new jewel of his crown , but merely as an act of his ordinary supreme civil power . why then will ye strain , force , and father it upon that his transcendent supremacy , when himself does not so ? upon all which reasons , ye see that the indulgence , in so far as accepted by the brethren , hath no consanguinity nor affinity with that supremacy as now asserted , and as expounded by you of a spiritual supremacy . from all these considerations also it is plain , that the argument used of late by some of you , to prove the affinity of the indulgence with the supremacy , is but a very sophism , viz. to enact , settle , and make constitutions , concerning matters , meetings , and persons ecclesiastical , according to royal pleasure , is the very substanee and definition of the supremacy , expressed in the act assertory of it : but the indulgence is to enact , &c. therefore it is the very substance and definition of the supremacy . how do some triumph in this , as a demonstration , and achillean argument ▪ but , beloved in the lord , take with us a second look of it , and weigh it in the ballance of right reason , and see the weakness and fallacy of it in these few particulars . . the major proposition is an unfaithful account of the supremacy , as defined by the act of parliament ; for the act expresly restricts it to matters , meetings , and persons of eeclesiastical jurisdiction and government , as is before observed . and yet the argument ampliates and extends it indefinitely unto all matters , meetings , and persons ecclesiastical , of what kind soever , even of worship as well as government ▪ and indeed it could not otherwise suit with the subsumption , which comprehends these . now , in this general comprehension , it is a very great mistake ; and if ye limit it to matters of government , ( as it should be ) then it varies the supposition , and does not quadrate with the subsumption ; and would be ex majori particulari in prima figura , which is bad logick . . as for the minor proposition , wherein ye apply your foresaid definition of supremacy to the indulgence , observe these mistakes in it . . that it meaneth of the whole complex and full latitude of the indulgence , as comprehending all the parts and pendicles of it , the act of restrictive rules and all ; for so the reverend author in his paper ( called mr. b. testimony ) labours to prove his charge , by adducing these rules and canons , &c. as witnesses of it . whereas ye know ( as was abovesaid ) that is not the state of the question betwixt you and your brethren ; distinguish betwixt the indulgence as enacted , and as accepted : and know , that whatever the indulgence , as enacted by the magistrate in its full latitude , may be charged with , or judged to comprehend , yea or not ; sure ye'll find that part of it , which is accepted by your brethren , not to be as is by you alledged , being only a permission or allowance of liberty to preach and exercise the other parts of their ministry , wherein no vestige of the supremacy ( as expounded of a papal , arbitrary , architectonick , spiritual supremacy ) is to be found , as hath been already cleared . and for further clearing of which , consider , . that in this grant of liberty , the magistrate acteth not merely according to pleasure ( except it be in genere politico , that is , as to his own deed , doing it without constraint , controul , or countableness to any person ) but rather against his mind in genere ethico , permitting that which he does not approve , as moses did the bill of divorce : so that herein he acts not as a coesareo-papa , or head of the church , and fountain of church-offices , enacting what he will in disposal of church-matters , as modellable by his pleasure ; but only and simply , as a supreme civil magistrate , he suspends and dispenses with the laws which curbed and hedged in your brethren , and permits them now to enjoy a portion of their wonted liberty , for reasons of state expressed in his act ; so that while the major proposition of the argument tells us , that , to enact , settle , and make such constitutions about matters , &c. ecclesiastick , according to royal pleasure ; that is , to make any acts anent them he will , as modellable , in their kind , at his arbitriment , is the definition of the supremacy , ( for in this sense only it is truly so defined , as apollonius and others tell . ) and then subsumes , that this act of indulgence , even as accepted by the brethren , is of that nature ; it is apparently a very great mistake ; which might give us occasion to remark what multiplyed sophistry is in this argument , a compositione & divisione , ab 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ab homonymia , &c. but these we pass , as also to criticise upon that strange conclusion here inferred , that the indulgence is the very substance and definition of the supremacy ; and consequently the all of it , and convertible with it , as if the supremacy and this indulgence were reciprocal terms , and whatsoever the supremacy can pretend to , to that same is this indulgence applicable , according to the rule , cui competit definitum , ei competit definitio ; & vice versa . but such logical remarks we forbear ; only we are sorry to find such paralogizing among you in a matter so grave and serious : but more sorry that such a caption should deceive and insnare the simple . had this syllogism been applyed to the act of ejecting you , and that of demolishing the church-government , and erecting prelacy in its stead , we should have thought it more pertinent and considerable . these being acts of his privative and despotical power , and savouring of a more dominative supremacy : but while ye apply it to this indulged liberty , which is but a cumulative and auxiliary act of his power , as nurse-father , and call this the very essence , exercise , and application of the supremacy ( meaning spiritual and architectonick ) who may not with half an eye see it a visible mistake ? and pray you if the king should write down to the council , and thereupon a proclamation be made , for permitting , yea appointing and commanding that no government be exercised in your church , but the presbyterian , and that forthwith it be set up and exercised , and all outed ministers be allowed access to the free exercise of their ministry any where ; would you say , this were the enacting , settling , and emitting constitutions about matters , meetings , and persons ecclesiastick , according to royal pleasure , and the very substance and definition of the supremacy , and so cast at it , as a thing vile , not to be touched ? if not , ( as no sober , rational , man , will think ye should ) why judge ye otherwise of this partial liberty ? both the one and the other being of one and the same grain , piece , and kind , though differing in measure . upon all that is said then , ye see it still plain , that this indulged liberty , in so far as it is accepted , hath nothing to do with this asserted supremacy . but say ye , many are of the opinion that this power of so indulging , though pre-existent before , yet now is included in the assertion of the supremacy . answer . though this be not evident , but much appears to the contrary by what is said ; yet , suppose it were so , that the clean and unclean power of civil and spiritual supremacy , were compacted together in the same assertive law , and declared inherent to the same crown , what then ? being in it self lawful , does its neighbourhood ( in eodem subjecto ) with what is counted unlawful , defile it ? does the accession or conjunction of an incompetent power , nullifie or corrupt the whole systeme of the regal authority ? and consequently , even that just power which did without controversie belong to the crown before that unjust superaddition ? and that , to such a degree , as neither he may exerce , nor ye make use ( without sin ) of the effluxes of the just power , till first he disclaim , and lay by the addition of what is undue ? how irrational were this ? for , as lawyers tell , accedente injustitiâ , non decedit , nec corrumpitur justa potestas . for example , an husband , father , or master , usurping the power of a magistrate or minister , does he therefore lose and fall from his marital , paternal , or masterly authority ? or is it a sin in the wife , son , or servant , to submit unto , or make use of , the exercise of the one , while he doth not disclaim the other ? sic-like uzzah's going beyond his line , intrenching upon the priestly office , did it evacuate or vitiate his levitical power , so as ( had he lived ) no man might lawfully have made use of his levitical service ? or did saul and uzzah their invading the priests office , yea or jeroboam's usurping that sinful supremacy in the matters of god , render all their regal power circa sacra , null or unclean , so as no use might be made of it , no not to the best ends ? what a strange principle were this ? and consequently it cannot be admitted ( which some , but few of you , have bigotly alledged ) that it is not lawful either to seek or take any indulgence or benefit of the magistrates power about the matters of religion , until he renounce what he has by law or practice assumed of ecclesiastical supremacy . moreover , were this principle admitted , how desperate would it render the case betwixt your church and the magistrate ? it not being likely he may be readily induced to rescind that new asserted supremacy ( which he takes for a flower of his crown : ) and it not being lawful for you ( according to this principle ) during the non-retractation of that supremacy , to receive any favour of his hand , were it even to an universal indulgence , or establishment of the presbyterian party and government , among themselves , or in all the land. dear friends ! have your senses exercised to discern betwixt things that differ , and separate what is separable in their nature and exercise : distinguish betwixt gods ordinance , viz. the magistrates civil supremacy , and mans annexed corruption , viz. his spiritual and ecclesiastick supremacy : and when the former acteth its part purely , without the mixture of the latter , and contains it self intra sphaeram debitae activitatis , within its proper bounds ( as it did in the matter of this indulged liberty , abstracted from the restrictions and impositions annexed , and in so far only it is accepted ) what hinders , but ye and your brethren might take the benefit of its favourable acts , notwithstanding it lodgeth in the same crown with the other ? yea , though they did put forth both their actings beside other , in different points , in one and the same complex law ? as was in that ordinance of the english parliament , anno — for setting up of presbyterian government , with reservation of appeals from the church-judicatories to the parliament . here is an act of that mixture and complexion we speak of , yet your brethren in england wisely distinguished and separated the good from the evil , embracing the one , and rejecting the other . § . if any be against distinguishing and separating betwixt these things so vastly different , which they suppose to be so confounded and complicated now in the same supremacy , that they cannot well be put asunder ; we crave leave to tell them two things : one is ( as is said already ) that different powers and principles of acting , may very well remain distinguishable and separable in their natures and actions , notwithstanding their conjunction in the same subject , as the former instances shew : so that in this case , it is ( almost ) just as in the case of jordan running through the lake of genesareth , with which ( notwithstanding ) it mixeth not , but remains pure and separate . the other thing is , that when folk begin to cast at just distinguishing and separting the precious from the vile , as mere notional and metaphysical abstractions , unfit for christians or men , ( as some of you are pleased to talk : ) we fear they be found builders of babel , not of salem ; but love who will to be masters of confusion , far be it from you . but here some object , that the indulgence oweth all its legal being , life , and warranty , to the act of supremacy now established by law ; and therefore it cannot be abstracted from ; nor the indulgence considered without it , whereon it so much depends , as its patron and protector in law ; it being for the sake and safety of the indulgence , that this supremacy was established in the king. thus , we confess , some argue , who would seem very nose-wise and prying ; drawing ( if their assertion will pass for proof enough ) all things done by the magistrate about matters of religion , to have , either directly or indirectly , kindred and relation to the supremacy : alledging what indulgence was after the supremacy , to be an efflux of it , and designed for support of it ; and what indulgence was born before the supremacy , must be drawn back to crouch under the supremacy , for shadow and shelter in law. but to the objection we answer , . this alledgance , if true , says , that the supremacy and indulgence must needs be of a civil nature , not spiritual ; seeing ( as ye assert ) both its fountain and end are civil . for , first , being of the parliaments bestowing , who never pretended to have any other but a civil legal power , ( and more than themselves had , they could not bequeath upon their prince ) , thence it appears ( upon this ground of yours ) to be but of a civil alloy . again , the end and use for which ye say this supremacy was enacted , was for warranting and securing the king and council in law , for what was past and done in the indulgence , being a dispensing with some poenal statutes , and allowing some a liberty to preach contrary to such standing laws ; and for inabling him and them to do more of that in the future . whereupon ye say , the indulgence owes all its legal life and being to this act of supremacy as its charter . whence it is plain , that ye make the act of supremacy to be but a legal and civil security for the king to grant , and ministers to accept this indulgence : and consequently , that the indulgence derives nothing but legality , not any spirituality from that act of supremacy . and therefore no efflux of any ecclesiastick architectonick power is judged to be in it , nor does not homologat the same ; owning only what is civil , for its legal protection . but passing this , know , . that this alledgance of yours , is but a meer fiction to cast an odium upon the indulgence . how instruct ye this to have been the drift and end of that act ? does not all that know the mystery of that matter , know that it was upon another occasion , and for another end ? viz. to curb the insolency of the prelates , who thinking themselves and their church-dignities and power cock-sure in law , were become bold to speak liberally of the king , and against his minions , as the archbishop of glasgow has done . therefore to keep them in awe and d●●endance , as wholly in the kings reverence , and consequently obnoxious to his minions , that act was made , inabling the king with his council to alter their established frame of church-government , and loose the pins of their fabrick at his pleasure ; which then was threatned to them by some statesmen , to keep them sober ; and therefore the bishops were very backward to consent to the passing of that act , till awed thereunto . that this was the professed end of the act , can ( as we are surely informed ) be attested by the prime movers in it . so that , whether the indulgence had been or not , this act would have been to put the disposal of the church-government in the kings lurch . false and groundless therefore is it , and non causa pro causa , to say the indulgence was the rise of this act , or that it was done in reference to the same . . suppose the indulgence had been illegal without this , or some other act to warrant it , yet seeing ye judg the laws that were opposite to this liberty were not just upon the matter , it seems strange to us , that ye , who so much justifie , yea magnifie the liberty of conventicling ( which your brethren do not condemn if rightly managed ) taken at your own hand , against the same laws , and many more , and consequently as illegal , though not unlawful ; should so decry the magistrates deed , in dispensing with these laws , and granting your brethren liberty of their ministry . maugre them . is your liberty taken so divine ? and theirs granted , an illegitimate or bastard-brood , as in your papers ye call it ? may not theirs be just and lawful , though not according to law , as well as yours ? does not this unequal dealing say , nothing of this sort pleases you but what is taken at your own hand ? and that your quarrel at the indulgence is , that it is granted , not taken ? . whether the king had such a prerogative or not ( before the act ) as to indulge nonconformist ministers liberty of their ministry , beside the laws allowance , we humbly judg is not theirs , nor your concern to debate ; being jus tertii , viz. the parliaments interest . if the thing was just and right in it self , you and your brethren were not to ask quo jure , the king took it on him ? let the parliament ask that ; was it not enough for your ministers acceptance of it , that the thing was good and right in it self , and not sinful upon the matter ; the king being to answer for the legality of his own deed ? and whatever hazard the indulged might have incurred for want of the alledged legality , yet we hope ye will not say they sinned in taking their hazard upon the magistrates allowance . . we humbly suppose the objecters of the king his not being instructed with legal power to indulge , before the act of supremacy was made , may find themselves much in a mistake . whoever questioned it to be a part of your kings prerogative to dispense with poenal statutes ( we mean in foro soli ) at least as to the execution of them ? hath it not been his uncontroverted practice , past memory of man , as to other poenal laws ? and why should it be denied him in this kind more than in others ? is not a current , uncontroverted custom , equivalent to a law ? whereupon you know the king did several times write down before , for allowing liberty to some ministers , but it was obstructed and suppressed by the archbishop of st. andrews , and his complices ; till at last one of you , mr. john smith , was by special and peremptory command of the king to the council , allowed to preach at — and some years hereafter , your first more general indulgence came ; all this while the king and council never doubting , nor any other questioning this power of indulging . how then can ye say , that to this act of supremacy the indulgence oweth its whole legal being ? upon all therefore that hath been said , is it not most evident to be a meer mistake to think , and a groundless assertion to affirm , as ye do , that the foundation , basis , fountain , and ground-right of the indulged liberty , is this act of supremacy ; seeing ( besides the reasons forementioned to disprove their affinity ) this liberty did , and doth subsist without the supremacy , and borroweth neither its natural nor moral being from this assertion of supremacy , and hath neither legal nor spiritual dependance upon it ? nor is it the exercise of any other but a lawful civil supremacy , competent to the magistrate , before ever that new act had a being , and for whose cause that new act was not at all hatched , as ye would fain bear the world in hand . having thus cleared , that in the indulgence ( abstractly considered , as it is accepted by the brethren ) there is nothing of erastianism , nor any sibness unto , or homologation of the so much talked of supremacy ; let none stumble at them , nor divide from them upon that score ; nor declaim impetuously against them , as supporters of the unlawful supremacy ; for how groundless that imputation is , the premises may abundantly shew . for our part we cannot see how their preaching with the magistrates tolerance and leave , can be a pillar and prop to his ecclesiastical supremacy , more nor your preaching without his leave is . if ye fancy any accidental influence that may redound from theirs to uphold it ; as ye can hardly name that , so may not the like be found to flow from yours , by its occasioning the setling of a military force to maintain the supremacy , and the hierarchy depending thereupon , and to suppress your liberty ? which is the states fault , we grant ; yet by you occasioned . consider seriously then , that their preaching with the magistrates civil permission , is not so much , let be more , a prop to this decantated supremacy , than your preaching without permission is : ( though it can be justly attributed to neither . ) and let out-crys on this head , go , and indulge not your humours , while ye cry out upon this indulgence ! nor state your selves judges paramount and infallible , as if you had a supremacy over all persons , and in all causes , while ye go about unjustly to task your brethren with communion with this justly lamented supremacy . but if still some cannot part with that high-sounding word of supremacy , and still will be imputing the indulged liberty to supremacy , using that ambiguous word as a gorgons head , or bugbear to fright the vulgar by , and scare people at the licensed ministers ; will they be intreated to deal as candidly in their discourses , as some of you have done in their publick papers , to distinguish betwixt the civil supremacy ( whence the indulgence flows ) , and the ecclesiastical supremacy ( with which it hath no affinity ) , and then the snare were broken . but to talk of supremacy in the general , and thence to insinuate a compliance by the accepted indulgence , with the ecclesiastical supremacy in special , is to argue a genere ad speciem , affirmative , ( from a general to a particular , affirmatively ) , which is fallacious and unfair dealing . and finally , what better reasoning is it to say ( as some do ) , that because the magistrate nominates in the second indulgence such and such ministers to preach in such or such a place , if they and the people please to have it so , without imposing a necessity or compulsion upon them thereunto ; therefore he takes upon him the election of ministers , and judging of their qualifications and fitness for these places , and consequently ( say ye ) he acts in this erastianism and supremacy . for removing this mistake , first , as to the nomination , consider , ( ) this doth not concern these of the first indulgence , who were pitched upon , nominate , presented , and petitioned for , by some representing the parish , before the council licensed them to the place . consider ( ) that the nomination of ministers in the second indulgence , was primarily a nominating of them to confinement in the place , and but secondarily to the free liberty of exercise of their ministry there ; but not to state them in the relation of pastors to those people . the peoples call doth this . ( ) suppose in this troubled and unsetled state of the church , the magistrate had nominate them to be pastors there , what is that but what the books of discipline of the church of scotland allows in such exigents , as in the forecited place , book . pag. . for this present ( say they ) we think it expedient , that either your honours by your selves nominate so many as may serve the forewritten provinces , or that ye give commission to such men as ye suppose the fear of god to be in , to do the same . and the same men being called into your presence , shall be by you , and such as your honours pleases to call unto you for consultation in that case , appointed to their provinces . where you see the nomination of the superintendents , and the designation of their province is given to the council for that juncture , yea , and they to be called coram , and in praesentia , in the face of council to be appointed to their charges . and charges were they much beyond what your brethren pretend to in the places of their confinement . nor was it here thought a subjecting the ministry to the magistrate , or putting on him an erastian power , or a renouncing christ , and a taking of the ministry from the magistrate by a new commission , for ministers to appear personally before the council , and be appointed to provinces : will you say , your church here establisheth erastianism , or a sinful supremacy ? or allows an encroachment upon the church and peoples right ? and does not your presbyterian writers , such as mr. bowels in his pastor evangelicus , lib. . cap. . allow the like ? ( ) whatever pretence this nomination might have of oppressing the liberty of the people ; yet we wonder ye count it erastianism , being no act of church-government , no exercise of the power of the keys ; else when people , to whom no power of the keys belongs more than to the magistrate , does nominate and elect a minister to themselves , they should erastianly usurp and invade the government of the house of god. your own divines assert election to be a matter of liberty or priviledg , not a power of jurisdiction . next , as for the magistrates alledged judging of ministers qualifications and fitness for places , we presume to propose four things to be considered : ( ) whereupon ground ye this plea ? what act of judicial cognition , or definitive determination concerning your brethrens gifts , did the magistrate put forth ? ( ) what judging upon ministers qualifications did the council here exercise more than in the forecited case of their nominating and appointing the superintendents to their provinces ? or , then people does , when they elect a minister to themselves ? ( ) to clear all , distinguish betwixt a charitative , or discretive judgment , and a judicial , forensick , definitive judgment . the former ( viz. a judgment of discretion ) is not , ye know , to be denied to any man or people concerned , much less to a christian magistrate : and more than that , yours did not take upon them ; yea , nor that either , but supposed these ministers able and qualified , being before tried and ordained by presbyteries , to no less eminent charges than now they were indulged unto . and for the latter , ( viz. the judgment of jurisdiction , which is properly the work of church-judicatories ) they medled not therewith . what then did they in this matter , without their sphere ? if ye say , by his majesties letter they were appointed to license only sober and peaceable men ; and is not this to judg of their qualifications ? ans . manifest it is , that that is meant only of some civil or moral qualifications , not of pastoral gifts ; and this also they considered and cognosced upon only discretively , not by a judicial and declarative sentence . did they at all , in foro , institute a trial and cognition of these or any other their qualifications ? not at all , but contented themseves with a negative testimony thereof , that is , if no body objected against their peaceableness . what erastianism then , or ecclesiastical supremacy was here ? but finally , suppose the magistrate had over-reached and gone beyond his line , in nominating these ministers to such places , and judging of their ministerial parts and fitness : what is that against the ministers themselves , who did not , does not preach to such people upon the magistrates nomination or designation ( except in so far as it imported a taking off their civil restraints ) but upon their own office ( as their missio potestativa ) and the peoples call ( as the determiner of them to officiate in that place ) ? neither did they submit the trial of their ministerial qualifications and fitness for such a place to the magistrates cognition : but as the magistrate presumed they were competently fit ; so , they ( without any judicial recognition of their abilities and suitableness ) condescended upon the peoples earnest call to imploy their talents , whatever their measure were , for the edifying of that people for an interim . now , upon all this , what just ground of out-cry is there against your honest brethren ? wherein have they homologate erastianism , or a spiritual supremacy ? the second objection is , concerning the act of rules or instructions ( so called ) wherein the magistrate does , by his civil authority , statute and ordain , that such and such things ( already mentioned ) be done and observed by the indulged , under civil pains . this act is represented unto people ( in odium of the indulged ministers ) as both most censurable upon the matter , and erastian in its nature , and as inseparable clogs , yea conditions , of their liberty . but , dear and worthy in the lord , consider in sober sadness , what can be justly charged upon these brethren in this matter , and what not . for our part , we cannot apprehend ; and therefore wave to examine , whether this act be formally civil , and only objectively ecclesiastical , and that only in a few particulars , the rest being civil ; or whether the magistrates error here be in the form , usurping an unjust power ; or only in the matter , abusing his just power , and misapplying it to unjust purposes , as sometimes he may do in civil cases ; which we think , the inverting of these rules to their contrary , may help to clear . nor is it necessary to dip into that question , whether it be altogether heterogeneous and incompetent , as well as it may be inconvenient , for the civil ruler to make civil laws and constitutions about the circumstances , order , and exercise of matters of religion , without the previous cognizance and pre-determination of the church thereupon ; and that even in the most broken and ruined state of the church , when there is no governing-church existent , that can be owned . passing also to consider , whether or no this act be properly an act of pastoral instructions ( such as only christ jesus , and no mortal man can give to his embassadors ) ? or , whether they be properly ecclesiastical canons ( of the same formal and specifical nature with church-decrees , about matters of order ) ? or , whether , they be only improperly and abusively called instructions and rules : as in some sense , all laws , even civil , are said to be regulative and directive of practice ? whatever may be said to these questions , upon the one side or the other , to excuse or condemn the magistrates deed , seemeth little to concern the purpose in hand , seeing your indulged ministers , looking upon these statuted rules , at least ways , as unjust upon their matter , have never embraced nor observed them , except it be in some civil points ( inflicted on them as penal ) ; and that only so far as they judged might be lawfully submitted unto , however unjustly imposed . what ground then is there , of stumbling at them , upon this head ? does not their non-acceptance , and non-observance , of these rules , free them of all crime supposed to be therein ? but to satisfie the objection more fully , consider in serious sobriety , that , be this act of regulation as censurable as you will , yet was and is it quite extrinsick and accidental to the granting and accepting of the indulgence ; and therefore the vitiousness of the one , cannot defile the other ; nay nor be so much as the ministers personal guilt , unless they had closed with it , which ye know they did not . but to evidence this consideration to be true and considerable , ponder these two things which serves to clear the point of this act of regulation its being extrinsick and accidental to the indulgence . ( ) that act of rules is no part of the act of indulgence , but a distinct act by it self , enacted after the indulgence , even in another meeting of the council ( as is informed ) though the same day : nor was it at all legally intimated to the indulged ( but lay dormant in the council-books ) until a considerable time after their entry to their charges . now who can with reason think , that a posterior law , imposed only subsequently to their acceptance of their liberty ( for how soon so ever it was past in the council-books , is nothing to them , seeing lex non promulgata est quasi non lata , a law not legally intimated signifies nothing ) how can it , we say , be thought to affect , burthen , and prejudice their acceptance of their liberty , and to constitute it sinful , which was long in being before that act of rules came forth by publication into the world ? hence plainly appeareth , that it is no constituent part of the indulgence , nor an inseparable attendant ; much less terms and conditions of the same , as some invidiously call them . had it been intimated to them conjunctly with the act of indulgence , there had been some more appearance of its being an onus libertatis ; but since it was not so , who can say with any shew of reason , that it was a burthen affecting their liberty , and that their acceptance of the one was a compliance with the other ? suppose a man purposed to dispone his estate to another , with such or such a provision or burden of legacy , debt , or service upon it ; if this clause was not inserted into the disposition , nor therewith delivered in a paper apart unto the successor ; but the disposition was at first sine onere , pure , free , and unconditional , as it was drawn up , subscribed and delivered unto the man ; yet sometime the rester , the cedent , thinks fit to add in a new paper apart , such a burden and clog to his former disposition , intending to affect his assignee with it . now who will not think such a posterior oneration altogether extrinsick to the disposition , and no ways to affect the estate or successor ? and that the assignee's acceptance of , or adherence to the foresaid disposition , does no ways homologate that subsequent addition , nor oblige him in law to own it ( if gratitude and kindness constrain him not thereto ) ; but still he stands free of , and unconcerned in that new-added burden ? it signifies nothing here to say , that the disponent never intended to dispone his estate otherwise than with that burden ; but in his mind , or some private personal deed lying by him , he purposed from the beginning to have his successor affected with it , as a condition annexed to the disposition ; yea , and perhaps talked of it to many ; so that the cessioner was not physically ignorant of his mind and matter . what then ? does his purpose , or private separate deed , infer any obligation upon his assignee ? or private significations of his mind , import any thing in law without legal and timous intimation ? no surely . the cessioner is still free . is it not just so in your brethrens case ? how can they be said to have accepted their liberty cum onere , seeing there was no such terms proposed to them in the act of indulgence delivered to them , nor with it at their acceptance ? ( as the extracts of their licenses sent to them will testifie . ) and these instructions ( so called ) was not intimated to them , till long after they were in possession of their liberty ; and when intimated , refused ; nor was it equitable they should have abandoned the favour of their liberty , upon the intimation of these rules to them ; because not proposed ( even then ) as terms , but imposed as laws . and also being supervenient , like a superfoetation , and consequently extrinsick and accidental to the favour . if ye say , the magistrates imposing them by way of laws , was but out of state , as counting it below him to seek their consent thereunto . ans . may ye not say the same of all laws ? and so threap upon the subjects , that they are terms , though no consent be explicitely sought ? which were absurd . again , know , that when the council minds to deal with any , even a single person , by way of terms , they do not count it below them to require consent , yea subscription : as in some of your banished ministers case , who was required to , and did subscribe their own act of banishment ; and some others of you at home , for redeeming their liberty from process , were required , and did take the oath of supremacy . but to leave this : we only add , if ye by your avowed and bold alledging the indulgence to be granted and accepted upon the terms of observing their rules , do teach the bishops ▪ ( who will like well to confirm you in your arguments and objections , thereby to blow at the coal of your animosities and contentions ) and put it in their heads to speak in the same language , blame your selves for it , but use it not as a testimony against your brethren , not being witnesses ( in the case ) without just exception . if , finally , ye object , that the kings letter concerning the first indulgence , comprehended in the bosom of it an order also concerning the instructions which after followed ; and consequently these instructions cannot be divided from the act of indulgence , in considering ministers acceptance thereof . ans . that letter of his majesties to the council , was to them directed ( not to the ministers ) as the councils rule and warrant , not the ministers legal act of indulgence ; and therefore ( whatever was in it ) it did concern the ministers no further than was legally communicate unto them ; and this at first was only in a very simple and unconditionate , or unclogged act of license , as the copies thereof under the clerks hand sent unto them , evidenceth . the injunctions were not intimated unto them till upwards of a year thereafter . now it 's only the councils act put into the ministers hand , which is the publick legal deed wherein they are concerned ; the kings letter , though registrate in the council-books , is a private matter as to them , as for any thing not intimate unto them . whatever they did physically know thereof ( by private information ) , which these not indulged also knew ) signifies nothing ; at least no more to them than to others . so that still it is plain the indulgence was sine onere . if it be said , the kings letter was read to the first ten indulged , when they were called before the council ; and did not their silence , and not bearing testimony against these injunctions , and other things of the like nature , import an homologation thereof ? ans . besides that the matter of fact alledged is much questioned , yea plainly denied as false , let us suppose the letter to have been all and whole read to them , yet the speech delivered by one in name of the rest , by shewing positively how they held their ministry , did ( in all sober mens judgment ) sufficiently ( though indirectly ) intimate their disallowance of all things repugnant thereunto ; for , rectum est norma , & index sui & obliqui . but suppose they failed in not being plain , full and free enough in their testimony , is that a ground sufficient to charge the odious imputation of erastianism on them ? or to illegitimate their indulged liberty , or their ministry , so as it were unlawful to hear them ? or what is it to the rest of the brethren , who were never called before the council , nor the letter and its contents read to them ? must the failing of some few be cast upon all ? and all alike condemned as guilty ? what partial and unjust dealing is this ? ( ) consider the form or quality of these statuted rules ; viz. that they were not proposed to them , as prerequired , or simultaneous , or future conditions of their liberty ; but imposed as laws , and authoritatively enjoined under civil pains , penalties and certifications , like other laws . suppose then they had been antecedently unto , or conjunctly with the grant of their liberty , intimated unto them ( which yet was not ) ; yet seeing they were not proposed as terms , by way of bargain required to be approved and consented unto , or observed as irritant conditions of their liberty , nor promise to observe them , sought or given , nor at that time pretended or declared to be conditions upon which the indulgence was granted ; but were simply imposed upon them as laws , but not consented unto , nor accepted by them : who can think the very making and being of such an act , did justly bar them up from making use of the liberty granted ? or doth now so affect it , or the exercise of their ministry by it , as that they are wholly polluted thereby ? or , that the bare acceptance of that liberty , doth necessarily and natively involve them in the guilt of that act , and of all comprehended in it , even albeit they observe it not ? will not equitable judges think these rules so enacted , were and are only the law-givers , not the ministers sin , no more than the law enjoining and appointing the declaration , or abjuration of your covenants , to be taken by all magistrates of burghs , can be justly interpreted to six guilt upon every one that happeneth to bear that office , albeit he conform not to that law ? who will charge such a magistrate as guilty of accepting the office cum onere , with the burden of the legally annexed declaration ? and that his separating between the office and the declaration , is morally impossible , and but a cheat ? or , that his bearing office in this case is an homologating the act anent the taking of the declaration , as ye do charge your brethrens acceptance of the indulged liberty , in reference to that act of rules ? certainly it were no small wrong to such honest magistrates , your selves being judges , to charge them with that guilt . and is not your brethrens case just the same ? add hereto , put the case the council emitted an edict licensing and allowing conventicles to be kept in house or fields ( while there is no access to your churches ) adding withall , certain rules and restrictions of an erastian nature , and savouring of the asserted supremacy , in its most spiritual part ; would ye therefore have judged your selves obliged to have forborn conventicling upon that account , or yet to give it over ? or , that ye sinned if ye did conventicle , meerly because of the injunction of those rules , albeit ye observed them not ? we suppose not . and is not this a like case with your brethrens , as to the point in hand ? pray you then , have not divers weights , and divers measures . and yet the more strongly does this defence militate for your brethren , that these restrictive and encroaching impositions were not antecedent unto , nay nor concomitant with their indulgence , ( as is before said ) but subsequent even to their entry , and long after , even for some years after the first indulgence , and many a month after the second . and do ye think in reason , that upon the intimation thereof unto them at that after-time , they should have given over their ministry for that very cause ? if that were a relevant reason , then were it easie for the magistrate , when he pleased , to lay aside all ministers , you as well as them , by making and imposing such kind of laws and acts of rules upon you . was and is not non-obedience sufficient to discharge them of compliance therewith , as is reckoned in the case of other laws , albeit publickly and solemnly promulgated ? yea , to this non-observance of these instructions , remember to add this , that in july — anno — , in face of council , when those rules were intimated unto many of them , it was declared by them , that they could not observe them , but should rather submit to whatsoever penalty or punishment , as the written narrative of their carriage at that time doth attest . so that when they were intimated unto them , if ye call them the condition of their liberty , you see that recusabant onus & conditionem repudiabant . all which things impartially considered , it is hoped whatever evil be in that act , ye will let it rest upon the authors , and not impute it to the ministers , being so innocent of compliance with it by any rule of scripture or right reason . oh then away with these hideous out-crys , which are made amongst the people upon this score , by some trafficking novices , and their pragmatical followers ; who teazle up this act to the height of all imaginable wickedness , and then applyes it to the ministers , to make them odious ; dealing herein with them , as the heathen did with some christians in the primitive persecutions , who first clothed them up in wolves skins and bears skins , and then hunted their mastives at them , which did run upon them , as not men , but wild beasts of the wilderness , and so did tear them into pieces . ah sad ! to see the like done to honest men , by pretending friends , but herein real foes , dressing them up in soul mis-representations , to egg on peoples envy and wrath against them , and all to break and tear their ministry down ! is there any persecution or grief like to this ? oh that our heads were rivers of tears , to mourn for such unparallel'd animosities , which , all things considered , hath scarce ever had its like ! the third objection is , some alledge this indulged preaching with the magistrates permission and allowance , to be a renouncing their former commission from jesus christ , and their dependance upon him , and a taking from the magistrate a new commission , and an holding of their ministry of him , with subjection to him , and dependance upon him , like other civil judges of the land , and ministers of state. answ . ah bitter and groundless censure ! nor could we have believed such an imputation would have been laid upon the indulged by any person of a spark of reason and religion , yea or of common sense , had not our eyes seen , and our ears heard it . but to the matter we say , . dear friends , how prove ye this charge ? is confident asserting , enough to ground such an heavy accusation ? if your brethren have unawares committed such an abomination , o why do ye not run to them , and plead with them about it , to save them from the error of their way ? why have ye not ere now seriously remonstrated this dreadful guilt to themselves , and not whispered it in corners unto others ? certainly , to deal with them at this rate behind theit backs , to speak or write this of them unto others , first , for a long time by private suggestions and surmises among the people , then by missive letters and libellous papers ; and yet never to have waired a word or line upon themselves , with any reason , to evince the charge : what spirit savoureth this of , and to what good can it tend , even your selves being judges ? and till the charge be proved , is it not a sufficient answer to deny it ? but for further vindication and satisfaction ( for we hope it is but a mistake , there are such hard thoughts taken up of them ) we humbly propose to you , . were the priests and levites in hezekiah's days guilty of this charge , because they had , by the magistrates authority , access to their service of the temple , and did make use of the same ? was their office altered or innovate , and quite spoiled thereby , as if they renounced their dependance upon god , their lord , and head , and master , and subjected their function to the civil ruler , and took it holden of him , because of his supervenient civil liberty granted them ? or , were the levites subordinate to jehoshaphat , like other civil judges , because of his , not only permitting , but appointing them to go preach through the land ? and does not your ministers hold as little of the magistrate as these did ? can any with truth say , that the prince his permission or ratification of the exercise of their office , or their use-making of the same , implies a renunciation of christ , or resignation of their office into the kings hands for a novodamus ? how will such a paradox-point be made out ? . will you say , because ye were outed of your charges by the magistrates interdict of the act at glasgow , anno . or other the like , and did ced thereunto , that therefore you did hold your ministry of him ( like other judges and officers of state ) and were deprived of it by him ? if not , what more does your brethrens civil license state them in subordination unto , and dependdance upon him , than your quitting of your cha●ges at his command did you ? for , outing and ining of ministers seems to be of the same category , and to argue a like dependance . . distinguish ( as apollonius and other anti-erastian divines do ) betwixt the substance of the ministry , or the function it self , and the exercise thereof . your ministers , by their indulgence , has not their function or office derived from the magistrate ; by it they do not renounce their old office , master , and head , jesus christ , nor get any new office , or ministerial power conferred upon them by the magistrate , prove the contrary if ye can : yea , the tenor of the act of indulgence will declare it ; being a permitting them to preach , not a giving them power to preach ; and therefore false is the charge above alledged ▪ all that they hold of the magistrate , is only somewhat about the exercise of their function ; somewhat like an embassadors getting a pass from another prince , to pass through or stay in his territories without lett or molestation ; or to discharge his embassy within that dominion , unto some certain persons he is sent unto . does that embassador , by taking this safe conduct or leave of the prince of the bounds , quit his own proper master , and take commission-power of that other prince ? no , no. now as to this sort of dependance which ministers have upon the magistrate , in the actual discharge of their office , for clearing thereof , distinguish next between the exercise of the ministry simply and in it self considered , and the circumstances of that exercise : or , distinguish subordination into that which is absolute , and that which is only secundum quid , or in some certain respects . now , as by this indulgence , your ministers do not depend upon the prince essentially and derivatively , as to their office , and authority , and matter of their embassage ; so neither simply and absolutely for the exercise of it ( both these they have and hold immediately of christ alone ) but only and merely in regard of the circumstance and adjunct of the peaceableness and legal immunity of the publick exercise of it in such and such places of his realm : even as the exercise of the protestant religion , being authorized by law , dependeth upon him ; and as the exercise of your ministry within any family , dependeth upon the master of the family . and your selves , in your papers upon this subject , acknowledge this kind of subordination and dependance ( viz. in respect of the publick , free , peaceable , exercise of the ministry ) to be not unlawful . to this apollonius also accordeth , part last , sect. . cap. . neither is it to be thought that this does subject the ministry , but the man ; not the function , but the person , to the civil power ; except it be ( as some of your selves say ) in obliquo , indirectly , and objectively , even as the other matters of god are , being objects about which his imperative and coercive power is conversant . thus ye see that it is only in respect of circumstances of the exercise of their ministry ( at most ) wherein the indulged depend upon the magistrate , and that that is no absurdity , nor no ground for your objected alledgance : being not unlike to this case ; as if an embassador of another king or state , were sent to your king , or any part of his people ; albeit in his authority and embassy he depend not upon your king , but allanerly upon his own master ; yet is it not in your king's power , and dependeth upon him , whether he will admit him in his territories to discharge that message ? or , when and where he shall have audience , & c ? ay , but your parallel of civil judges and their offices depending on the king , corresponds not adequately unto this , but is of a different nature and wider extent , being otherwise subordinate unto , and depending upon the prince , viz. directly and derivatively as well as objectively ; and consequently he hath a power over them , which he hath not over indulged ministers , viz. to ex auctorate and divest them of their office at his pleasure , as well as to thrust them from the exercise thereof within his dominions ; whereas , as he doth not make the indulged to be ministers , so neither can he unmake and unminister them : all he can take from them is , what he giveth , viz. his own civil toleration . from all which it is apparent , how groundless this objection is ; they retaining and exercising their very former ministry which they had of christ ; and getting no other , no new ministry from the magistrate , no more than your selves do , and consequently are christs embassadors and sent-servants still , even as you are ; only they have the peaceableness and civil freedom of the publick exercise of their function from the ruler : a thing they were and are bound to pray for , tim. . , . — that under him they may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty ; and consequently , or by parity of reason , in the exercise of their ministry . and if this may and should be prayed for , as it is his duty to grant it , so it cannot be their crime to accept it . the fourth objection is , from the magistrates design in granting this indulgence , which design ye suppose to have been evil , and consequently its fruit evil , and not to be medled with . answ . what is that project ye suspect ? and how is your alledgance verified and made out ? surely , liberty to preach the gospel , in it self ( and ex conditione operis ) could be of no ill tendency , natively . whatever then may be deemed to have been the finis operantis , or sinister intention of the granter , what is that to the thing it self , being so good , so necessary ? and the agents design being altogether extrinsick to it ? doth the permitters latent intention defile the mercy , that it might not be touched ? or , what is it to any that takes the favour , and makes good use of it , and concurreth not with the alledged ill design ? when julian the apostate gave an universal illimited toleration to all religions , and among the rest , to all sects of christians , on purpose that the several parties among the christians , being hot in their differences and animosities amongst themselves , might by their mutual digladiations and contests , weaken and wear out one another , and so consume the christian religion at last with their own hands ; did the orthodox christians ever scruple , or ought they to have refused , to take their share of that tolerated liberty , either because of the sin of the vast extent of it to all sects , or because of the evil design thereof ? no , no , but accepted and improved what was their part , not being concerned in the emperors part ( further than to sympathize with gods honour and interest wronged by him ) but leaving the sin of his ill designs upon himself . but to be more particular : what suppose ye the evil design to be ? and why do ye not convince your brethren of it ? and of their accession to it , if any be ? we find some talk of three several designs : let us consider them severally . first , some say , it was designed to be a wedg of division . to this we answer , . how could a thing , in it self so innocent , have any just and native tendency to such an end ? doth the permitting or taking of liberty to preach the gospel , intrinsically , and ex natura rei , level at dividing the ministers and professors of the gospel ? what a paradox were it to assert that ? any tendency then if might be supposed to have hereunto , must be only ex accidenti , through your corruptions , opposition , and discontents , which might have been imagined likely to stir thereupon ; at least , through the weakness and proneness to mistake , that some of you might be under . and thus the best of things may be an occasion to mens humors and mistakes to work upon , and so become a ball of contention . but should the innocent object bear the blame of your corruptions rising ? moreover , if ye took this to be the design , why were and are ye so unwise and unjust , as your selves to co-operate with that design with both your hands , and carry it on so eagerly by renting and separation ? why are ye so subservient thereunto by your contradiction and contention about the indulgence ? had it not been as well your wisdom as duty , to have defeated their design by your constant unity , ( though ye could not be of unanimity ? ) sith then , this indulged liberty is not properly a cause , but simply an occasion of dividing ( as christ our lord himself sometime was , john . . ) but the true and proper cause is your corruptions , such as male-content , short-sightedness , &c. who can justly quarrel at that which in it self is a mercy , because of the ill use dividers and their ill humors make of it , more than at the gospel , which is oft a stumbling-stone and rock of offence , set for the falling of many ? and who are most to be blamed ? whether these who are active in dividing upon this occasion , rom. . . or , the indulged , who are more passive , and an innocent occasion of the same , through their necessary use-making of the liberty of the exercise of their calling ? matth. . . certainly , the indulged and unindulged might well have abode in unity , notwithstanding of the difference of their lots , and various capacities of acting in the gospel , as well as those that go abroad conventicling ; and those that necessarily stay at home , may and should remain nevertheless one in the lord , and in christian love and peace . but to remove the objection further , we demand , . how does it appear that this was the scope of granting the indulgence ? may every man abound in his own sense , and fasten that upon it which his roving fancy leads him to dream to have been the purpose of it ? de occultis non judicat ecclesia ; secret things belong to the lord , revealed things only to us ; de non-entibus & non-apparentibus , idem judicum : surely , the ruler professed no such end , as the act declares ; and secret ends fall not under our judgment , nor alters the nature of things . since then , the patent , not the latent ends of things ; their certain and declared scope , and not our imaginary , fictitious , or conjectural suspicions , are the just measure of judging and acting ; it is hoped that upon serious review of this , ye will cease quarrelling your brethren upon this head. otherwise , if still you make the latent and conjectured ends of agents , the measuring-line of the goodness of things , as to others use-making thereof , what if some sagacious people or ministers should take up that same argument against your selves , and tell you they are jealous ( not without pregnant presumptions ) of no good ends in some of your preachers and their preachings , and therefore judgeth it unlawful to hear them , join with them , or any way countenance them therein ? would you think it valid reasoning ? and were ye not but met with your own ell-wand ? . some are bold to say , the intent of the indulgence was to subject the ministry and things of god unto , and bring them all into dependance upon the civil magistrate ; and , therefore not lawful to meddle with that that serves for such an end . ans . had this been said of the outing of you , it might had more colour ; the exercise of , and submitting unto the magistrates privative power , circa sacra , tending more natively hereunto . but how this can be justly alledged of the exercise and acceptance of the benefit of his auxiliary power and act of his nurse-fathership , in indulging part of that liberty formerly taken from you , we see not . again , as ex natura rei , it puts ministers into subjection unto , and dependance upon the magistrate , not in regard of their function , nor of the exercise of it simply ; but only in regard of the free and undisturbed exercise thereof , ( which the objectors themselves grant to be not incongruous ) , so neither doth this end appear ( by any demonstrative evidence ) to have been the project . no mans guessing , and magisterial alledgances , sufficeth here for proof . non-constat's and non-liquet's may very well be repell'd as non-entities , specially if there are presumptions to the contrary , as here there are . ly . some more colourably object , that the very professed end of this indulgence ( as the act beareth ) is to remedy ( or remove ) conventicles , which the act calls disorders . and is not this an evil end ? and to accept that indulgence , is it not to comply with that end ? for answer to this , consider , ( ) that the act calleth conventicles disorders , only in a civil sense , or in point of law , being against the standing laws ; not in a moral sense , or in point of conscience , this is abstracted from ; as the former cannot be denied to be de facto true , though the law forbidding them is not indeed to be justified . consider ( ) that this excluding of conventicles by the act , seems rather the intent of the confinement , as the tenor of the act manifests ; but the intent of the indulgence plainly appears to be , to mollifie the confinement . and therefore though the argument might plead against strict observing of the confinement , yet no ways against the indulgence . consider , ( ) that suppose this to have been the intention of the granter of the indulged liberty , yet it cannot be the native tendency of the thing granted , seeing liberty of publick preaching is not contrary unto , but may well consist with private conventicling too , when need and occasion requireth . subordinata non pugnant . if any assert them incompatible and destructive the one to the other , either in the same person , or in divers , do they not injure and reflect upon conventicling , as well as upon the indulged free exercise of publick preaching ? ( ) giving and not granting , that this indulged liberty did exclude conventicling pro tanto , that is , in so far as it gets place , ( and further it cannot be supposed to be intended to sec●ude them than in these places who get the benefit of it ) , what prejudice were this to the pastor or people who enjoy it ? being no other but a commutation or exchange of a lesser good for a greater ? for clearing this , remember that conventicling ( so called ) and indulged preaching differ , not in substance ▪ but in mode , accidents , and circumstances only , viz. the one is a publick , peaceable , free , allowed way of preaching , without hazard of the law or violence ; the other a private way ; or if publick , lyable to the lash of the law , and the violence and disturbance that may happen thereupon : the one hath the conveniency of a publick meeting-house ; the other hampered in a private corner , or exposed in the fields to the injuries of the weather . the one has access to the legal maintenance ; the other is cast upon peoples benevolence , and burdensome to their private purse , &c. now which of these circumstances are most eligible to enjoy the gospel in ? who will say then , that there is any wrong done to a minister or people , if in lieu of their hazardous , &c. conventicling , they get indulgence of free , &c. preaching ? the fault then here seems to be , not that there is an indulgence instead of conventicling in some places , but that the indulgence is not extended to all persons and places without exception , that so all might enjoy the liberty of publick , peaceable preaching and hearing of the gospel , without molestation or hazard , as these few do . and thus your selves say , in your professions and petitions to the magistrate for a general liberty , that that granted , conventicles would cease a while ; meaning in so far as they are in opposition , and not in subordination unto the publick ordinances , according to the rule , desiderium boni imperfectioris cessat , acquisito perfectiori . doubtless , when publick liberty is denied , house-preaching ( rightly gone about ) cannot be condemned . but if any take up the conceit , that as these modes of preaching are in themselves lawful , and in some cases necessary ; so are they always necessary , yea and perferable to the most extended indulged liberty : who will not think them under some dotage ? and indeed , if conventicling ( so called ) were so preferable , much more if it were the only blessed way ( as some talk ) , then would it follow , that the magistrate had done you no wrong in thrusting you from your publick stations into corners and trouble ; nor yet did they you wrong in keeping you there , casting you thereby upon the necessity of so conventicling ; nor should he do well to restore you and the church to your former state , because it would infer a wearing out of conventicles . how unreasonable then must this principle and exception of yours be , judg ye your selves ! ( ) consider , that howbeit this remedying of conventicles as legal disorders , be put into the narrative of the act , and suppose it were ill , ( as indeed we will be far from justifying any that condemn those honest meetings of the lords people , which have been so much owned of him ) , yet ministers compliance with that part of the statutary part of the act , which permits them liberty of preaching , cannot rationally be judged to involve them in the guilt of what is in the narrative . because narratives of laws express only the grounds and reasons moving the magistrate to enact such a law , not the reason of the subjects . and consequently , if the ratio motiva , or motive inducing the legislator to such a statute be sinful , the guilt thereof rests with himself , but doth not reflect upon the subject ; as might be cleared by several examples . and indeed , otherwise it were easie for the magistrate to bind you up in conscience from all necessary duties of religion , by commanding or permiting them upon bad narratives and ends . know , that the law tells us , quod continetur in lemmate legis , ad caesarem , non ad subditum proprie spectat . it sufficeth then to warrant the subject to give obedience , if the statutary part be lawful as to the matter , and the authority enjoining the same be competent . specially if withal they competently declare and testifie their disallowance of these grounds the magistrate goes upon . ( ) this holds yet more strongly , when the case is not of a preceptive , but a permissive law : and the thing permitted , not an indifferent thing , but a necessary duty , as in this case it is . for example , let us suppose the ruler had made an act , like that of darius's , dan. . . discharging all preaching , ( as he did prayer to god ) , and the rester should grant liberty of all sort of conventicling , upon this ground and intent , to wear out and put away all preaching in a setled way , would ye think he that should preach , were it but in a corner , were guilty of this sinful narrative and end ? we suppose not . or , if he should discharge all family-prayer , and the rester license it , upon this narrative , and with respect to this end , that it might satisfie people , and exclude all seeking after publick preaching , &c. would it in that case be unlawful to perform family-prayer ? or , would doing the same , conclude you under the guilt of compliance with the narrative and grounds whereupon the ruler permits it ? we suppose ye will not say it . and why any more should ye aver it in this case of the indulged preaching , which is no less a necessary and commanded duty , than that of indulged praying , & c ? thus you see how little ground there is to scruple at the indulgence , or question the indulged upon this score , of a supposed all design in it . the fifth objection is , the narrowness of the indulged liberty , both as to persons and priviledges ; not all the outed ministers being comprehended in that favour , nor all places made partakers , nor liberty of the whole presbyterian government had ; but only a part of ministers and people has it vouchsafed on them ; and no more of the government restored , but only congregationl sessions at most . and is it not a fault to accept of such a straitned liberty ? to this we say these five things : ( ) this objection supponeth the indulgence in its nature not unlawful : else , how can the objectors plead for its inlargement , or complain of its straitnedness ? for , were it intrinsecally evil , the more ample it were , the worse it were . but ( ) know , that its straitnedness is the magistrates fault , but the ministers affliction only ; and should not the magistrates fault rest with himself , and not be imputed to the ministers ? let every man bear his own burden , gal. . . and ( ) as his not granting all he should , did not make it simply unlawful to grant a part ; so who can rationally say , that ministers might not take , and make use of that part , till god should incline him to grant more ? grieved was their souls that the liberty was not universal , and all persons and places concerned not , made sharers , all their own rights not fully restored . and their hearts desire to god , and endeavour with man , was and is to have it extended . they sit not down upon their priviledg , careless of their brethren , who were secluded and debarred for the time ; but sympathizes and laments their hard lot , praying for redress , even as they who returned out of the captivity before the rest , forgot not those who were detain'd in babylon behind them , psal . . , , with . but who will say , that because in providence others bonds are not taken off , therefore they should have casten at the mercy of their liberty ? or , that it was their sin to take hold of it and improve it ? no more than it was pharaoh's butlers fault to accept of his liberty and restauration , though the baker and joseph were left still in prison behind him , gen. ? did joseph quarrel or discharge the butler to accept of his liberty , unless all his fellow-prisoners were partakers of the like ? no , but only says , when it is well with thee , then remember me . to state this for a principle , that it is not lawful for any man to preach the gospel , having liberty , while his neighbour gets not the like liberty ; or , to preach in any one place , because he is not licensed equally to all places ; or , that one place should say , i will not be rained upon while other places and fleeces are dry ; it seemeth to savour more of humour than of solid and justifiable reason . was it a crime for the children of judah and benjamin to come up out of their captivity to jerusalem and build the temple , offer sacrifice , &c. ( as ezra . . ) because their brethren of the ten tribes were not also permitted to return to their land , and concur in the building ? yea , or that part of the jews who came up at first with zerubabel , did they sin , because they returned , while others stayed still in babylon , ( perhaps detained , notwithstanding cyrus his proclamation ) till afterwards esdra obtained of artaxerxes liberty for himself and them ? ( as esdra . , . ) or , if twenty of you were incarcerate for the gospel , and in providence the civil power were moved to liberate ten of them , ought these ten necessarily to reject their offered liberty ; or were it their sin to go forth of prison , because their fellow prisoners obtain not the like ? or might , and should one nation refuse the liberty of the gospel , because all other nations has not the like ? in a word , where no law is , there is no transgression ; and what divine precept is broken , in accepting liberty to preach in the west , because orkney , shetland , and the high-lands , &c. are not provided for , nor priviledged with the liberty of a presbyterian ministry ? but further , consider , ( . ) that it is not left at ministers option or choice , to preach or not ( having liberty ) as they please . a dispensation is committed unto them , cor. . , . and wo apon them if they preach not , having an open door from the lord set before them , by the means of the magistrate , who had shut it . it was and is therefore not indifferent unto them , to accept or reject the liberty and open-door of preaching , as seemed best to them ; but was , and is a necessary , indispensable duty to take hold of it . hence it follows , that whatever neighbourliness and kindliness might seem to plead for refusing , yet surely it was and is no breach of conscience to accept , nay rather were it not a sinful , fond affection , to slight such an opportunity of serving god in the gospel of his son ? because , forsooth , some neighbours get not the like liberty , were not this too high a complement of kindness to your neighbour , to prefer the taking an unnecessary share in a common suffering with them , unto a sinless liberty of necessary serving of god in the highest sphere of gospel-acting ? in like manner , ( . ) as for taking the liberty of all christs ordinances , competent to a congregation , without liberty of classical presbyteries , provincial synods , or general assemblies ? what scripture or reason pleads against this , or proveth the accepters sin ? namely , what is withheld ; being their involuntary , and not consented-unto want . must ye have all , or will ye take nothing ? yea , and count it an unpardonable crime to accept of a day of small things , till god incline the hearts of rulers to condescend to further ? had it been unlawful to zerubabel , to have accepted a considerable part of the vessels of the temple , if the other part had been kept back ? by this ground was not esdra in a mistake , when he blessed god for a nail in the holy place ? esdra . and was not your own church far out , when in the late usurpers time , and afterwards , her liberty of general assemblies was broken ; yet kept synods , presbyteries , and sessions , holding fast what of her liberty she could , while the other part was infringed ? is aut caesar , aut nihil , your principle ? we hope such axioms ye will not own ; nor charge the contravention thereof , as a fault upon your brethren . were christs cloaths taken from him , what forbids , but ye might lawfully receive back his coat to put upon him , until ye get his cloak also ? remember here , that what part of the churches liberties is kept back from your ministers , is not discharged nor quail by them ; nor what they have got accepted in lieu of the whole ; but only taken as a part of the churches right , till more come : like a creditor's receiving part of his sum , to be doing with , for the time , until he get the rest . in all this detension , are not your ministers merely passive ? and what they receive , is cumulative , and but praejudice , not privative unto what remains to be sought and granted thereafter , when god giveth occasion . from all these considerations , is it not plain , what a groundless stumbling there is at ministers accepting this straitned liberty , lame and narrow as it is ? which imperfection of it , should be , and is indeed a gravamen , a grief of heart , and burden to their spirits ; but could be no just ligamen conscientiae , a thing to have hedged up conscience from making use of it , or that imports a violation of the law of god , and a breach upon the conscience , if it be made use of . if any say , the accepting of this partia● indulgence precludes from , and stands in the way of a more general ; and if this had been refused , a full liberty would have been granted e're now . answ . we confess these are politicks strongly asserted by some who would seem very prying ; but founded upon so little reason or religion , yea or common sense , that it transcends our capacity to comprehend them . what probability or ground of assurance can ye produce for such an expectation ? by what almanack do ye divine this ? yea , suppose some weak probables might be adduced for it , yet how can it be thought that such uncertain , conjectural politicks , relating unto future contingencies , should justly have debarred these ministers from entertaining a present , certain mercy and duty ? but , dear friends , did ye find the first indulgence bar the door upon , and not rather make way for , the second ? and if we might take a liberty to foretel , as you do , might it not be said upon no less reason , that , had the second been kindly entertained and well improved , the good effects thereof might have induced many to seek , and the magistrate to grant , a third , more ample than any of the former : but your carping disobligeth him , and your reeling makes you contemptible , and thought unworthy of favour . if again any say , how can we be content , when some are thus favoured , and get leave to dwell at ease under their vine , while others are hunted and harassed ? we will never be right , till all be in one condition again , either all out , or all in . answ . may not people object the same against one another , to whom providence carves out various lots ? and what , shall there be , should there be no peace , until all be of the same outward lot and condition ? o salamandrin paradox ! and what is this else but the very foam of envy , like the patriarchs envying joseph for their fathers kindness unto him beyond them ? or , as if joseph should have grudged at the butler his getting and accepting of liberty , while himself lay still in prison , till the irons entred into his soul ? or , as if the rest of the children of the captivity should have quarrelled at daniel and his fellows promotion , while their brethren sate by the banks of babel weeping ? why should your eye be evil where the lords hand is good ? are ye worse that it 's well , or any whit better with others ? count ye what is granted to your brethren , detracted from you ? and their liberty , your misery ? why grudge ye ? do ye well to be angry ? might not the suffering part of the people grudg and quarrel in like manner , that all their neighbours are not in prison with them ? or , that one or more gets out of prison , while others are detained ? should there be no peace among you , unless all be in the same case , and have the same lot ? is not this much like the fault of the corinthians , who schismatized and rent the body of christ , because of their different places and employments in the church , that all was not eye , or ear , or hand ; cor. . , , , . with , , , , ? and shall there be no concord , but a standing mutiny in an army , because some are put up into quarters , others in garison , some to lye in the fields , others to range abroad in parties , &c. in acts . . we read , there was a great persecution at jerusalem against the church , and all were scattered abroad except the apostles : and v. . they that were scattered abroad , went every where preaching the word . here are different lots , and different employments ; some persecuted , some spared ; some going abroad to preach at their peril , others staying at jerusalem in a more fixed way , as james and other brethren did , as is clear by comparing this place with acts . . yet who finds any discord among them upon this account ? remember , that it is the magistrates fault , not your brethrens , that ye are not all equal sharers : why then do ye let forth your crab at the innocent ? o look higher than man in this ! is it not the different dispensation of his soveraign providence , who is not countable to us of any of his matters , prov. . . cor. . . and may do with his own what he will , matth. . . may set up one star to shine , and let another better lye by ? who may say to him what dost thou ? is not this difference of dealing to be stooped unto and adored , and not to be quarrelled ? tolle quod tuum est , ut vade , matth. . , . submission unto , and improvement of , your own lot and case , and not to dive much into others , is your blessed duty , john last . v. , . but to say no more , not a few , and these none of the simplest , do judge , if your fierce divisions and brisk animosities did not so much serve the bad designs of some , who bear sway in affairs ( who therefore love to cherish them , by fretting you with exclusion from favours , while others get ) belike you might soon have your desire of a general liberty . but your contendings are too good a game ( for promoting their ends ) to let them die out for want of fewel : o then let not this defectiveness and lameness of the favour , be a bone of contention any more ! the sixth objection is , the manner of their entry unto these charges , wherein they officiate , not being called by the people ( as is alledged ) nor admitted by the presbytery , as wont to be , and so they seem not to come in at the door , ( in an orderly way ) but at the window , or by a by-way . answ . here indeed , there are strange , but groundless , and unjust outcryes made against them : for evincing whereof , and satisfying the mis-informed , let these following considerations be pondered . first , as to the alledged want of the peoples previous election and call , we say these things . . what needed these ministers any new election or call , who were , by the indulgence , returned to their own former charges ? . as for these who were licensed unto other parts , we affirm , it is a great mistake to say they came without the call and consent of the people : for , in the first indulgence , licenses passed not but upon address first made to the council for the same , by some in name of the parish ; and as representing them , which after the license passed , was backed by a second and more ample call , and most serious invitation by the elders , gentlemen , masters of families , and other such most considerable parts of the people , in their own name , and of the rest of the parish ; earnestly beseeching these indulged ministers to come and labour among them in the gospel , till god should open a door for their return to their former charges : so that they had the election of the people doubly , both prior and posterior , unto the councils license ; and always anterior to their own minting , in the least , to come to the charges they were licensed unto . sic like in the second indulgence , albeitt the magistrate waited not upon peoples election , but supponing all these outed ministers men of approved qualifications , ( being formerly ordained by presbytery , and in no less eminent charges , than he allocated them unto ; and also much flocked after by people , when they conventicled : ) and thinking his grant of license or act of toleration , did no more ( stricto jure ) depend upon peoples call , than their call doth upon his toleration ; did therefore do his part anteriorly to the peoples call , ( a method indeed , though not simply and intrinsecally sinful , yet full of hazard , and liable to many inconvenients in a constitute church ; ) yet none of these so indulged did offer to come to bestow their labours in these parishes , without the parishes call first had . now , what doth it import to the ministers , whether the peoples call did precede or follow the prince his civil license ? or what reason hath any to object , if the people was satisfied with the minister licensed , and did cordially call him ? if any think the prince his nomination , was a taking upon him the peoples right of calling , it is a great mistake ; being only a civil and legal licentiating , not an ecclesiastick calling . if ye say , it praelimited the people in their freedom . answ . not at all : they were still left to their freedom , as well as when a presbytery giveth them a list , as often wont to be . hence some people called others , and obtained the licensing of them too , and passed by such as the council did nominate for them , as less fit for them . however , if the prince did in this method prelimit , and incroach upon the peoples freedom ; as ye will readily find it an act of oppression only , not of usurpation ; so is it his fault alone , but doth not cencern the minister , nor can be any just exception against him whom the people acquiesced in , and cordially called ; and hitherto we have heard of none of them repenting of their choice . moreover , suppose the magistrate had nominated and elected such and such ministers to such and such places ( which yet he did not ) in this broken state of the church , we desire to know what wrong were done thereby , more than when your states and council did nominate and chuse the superintendents for such and such provinces , as your church alloweth in her shattered case , in the first book of discipline , p. . sic like , did not all the ministers in the church of scotland , before the year . enter by presentations from the patrons , without the election or call of the people ? but was this ever counted a relevant objection against their ministry , or for separating from them against the lawfulness of hearing them ? why then are the indulged mens entry quarrelled as sinful , and their ministry as defiled , who yet wanted not the peoples full call ? thus ye see it is a mistake , to alledg their want of a due and valid call : and for the quibbles about the method of it , how weak a ground are they to cast at them , and plead for separation from them , for the same ; sith they militate only against the magistrates precipitant or preposterous proceeding ( if so you judg it ) but makes nothing against the ministers ; it being all one to them ( as to the validity of their call ) whether the peoples election was antecedent or subsequent to the rulers license : see ames . cas . consc . lib. . chap. . th. . yea , divines tell us , that peoples consent subsequent to a ministers entry ( though it absolve him not of disorderliness , yet ) doth ratifie and make good his right to labour among them as their pastor ; even as leah ( unjustly obtruded upon jacob ) did by his consequent consent become his wife ; and might no more after that be repudiate , than his beloved rachel , whom he choised before he married her . but here , some as we understand , object , how can ministers having another people , to whom they have a prior standing relation , be counted , though elected and called , the pastors of these people , to whom they are indulged ? can a man have two charges at once ? to this we answer , ( ) that they may very well be called , counted , and submitted unto by the indulged people , as their own ministers , just as your honest ministers mr. robert blair , and mr. john livingston , and others , became pastors of churches in scotland , notwithstanding their relation to their former charges in ireland , from which they were driven away by the violence of the time . and as famous mr. welsh did take charge of a congregation in france , being banished scotland . and as we suppose your banished brethren in holland would not scruple to take charges there , if providence offered the same , even as others of your number has accepted of charges in ireland , and that without the consent of your church in scotland , and also without your quarreling at them . we wonder why ye impugn those indulged men so briskly , when others of the same practice as to this are allowed . shall it be counted vice in the one , which is counted virtue in the other ? ( ) not to debate , if when by violence of a time , a minister is incapacitate to exercise his ministry among his people , ( as your ministers were by law , and that backed with force ) , and so it became morally impossible to discharge his office unto them ; whether in that case he be civiliter mortuus , dead in law unto them , and his ministerial tye and relation , divino nutu loosed , or providentially broken and dissolved , as ames . asserts in his cas . consc . lib. . cap. . § . . we are made to understand that some of these who impugn their brethren most hotly , are of this opinion , and therefore count not themselves obliged to look after their old charges , more than after any other . whereupon we wonder at their calling their brethren men of pluralities of charges , whilst themselves take the whole church universal for their charge , at least all the parishes in scotland indefinitely , & aequo jure . but let us suppose the relation to stand undissolved quo ad habitum , or jus ad rem ; yet seeing there is a supersedeas put , by the times to the actual exercise of it , what hinders but they may and should lawfully bestow their labours in any other part of the lords vineyard , being called thereunto , until providence open a door of regress to their former charge ? in which case , though they be not simpliciter and absolutely the fixed , stated pastors of these people , yet are they conditionally , and for that interim ; and not like meer itinerant and occasional preachers . their call determineth them unto , and stateth their relation to these people , until occasion of regress . nor is it absurd for them to have relation to two different flocks at the same time in a different manner , viz. to the one habi●u , to the other actu ; or thus , to the one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or by way of propriety , to the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or by way of loan and use for the time . next , as to the plea of their not being admitted to these places by the presbytery , as wont to be . for taking off this , know ( ) that they being ministers already , needed no new ordination or mission . as for that solemnity of admission used formerly in transportations , what is it as to the stating the man pastor of that people , but a publick solemn declaration of the peoples consent and subjection unto him ? and a solemn introduction of him into his work ? and was materially had by the indulged in the peoples express and full calling of them , and practical subjection to their ministry : that solemnity therefore of admission ( so called ) being at most , and in best times , not necessary ad esse , but only expedient ad bene esse , that is to say , not essential and absolutely necessary , but only for solemnity and conveniency of stating the relation , ( as learned voetius sheweth in his desperata causa papatus , pag. . ) what hinders but it may be wanted without any detriment to the relation ? like marriage consummate without some of the rites and solemnities , ordinary , and fit when they may be had . can any with reason say , that preaching of the gospel by actual ordained ministers , invited and earnestly called thereto by people , dependeth so absolutely and essentially upon that punctilio of order ; and substance is such an underling to form , that if this be not ( nor possible to be had ) that should not , may not be in no case , no not of much extremity , and urgent necessity , as this was ? sure what divines say of baptism , may be applied here , non privatio , sed contemptus damnat , so not the bare want , but the neglect of admission is a fault and marring defect , being only a point of order , which in such a broken time could not be had . and therefore the want of it derogates nothing from the validity of their interest in that people , nor from the lawfulness of their labouring among them . and to object it against them , seems to favour more of prejudice than of any real scruple . but ( ) remember this was a broken state of the church wherein ordinary formalities and solemnities ( fit to be observed in a constituted church ) could not be obtained ; for , seeing there were no presbyteries in being , who can justly quarrel these ministers for want of the presbyteries solemn concurrence ? namely , if brethrens consent and approbation was generally had disjunctly ( as far as there was access to acquaint them with the matter in the scattered condition they were in ) either formally and expresly , or tacitely and in some equivalent way . what more could have been done in such an extraordinary case ? and the extraordinariness of the case , did it not sufficiently dispense with , and excuse the want of that usual point of order ? which therefore in this case is no irregularity and disorder , privative . ( ) it meriteth consideration , that the indulged did not come unto these parishes like transported ministers , to fix with them without an eye of return to their former charges ; but only for an interim , till access to their old flocks be granted ; and consequently there was no necessity of the solemnities usual in the admission of transported men . from all this is it not plain , that their manner of entry is not so culpable as it is by some represented to be ? and we hope these probationers and others who come and conventicle within the indulged mens bounds , or in other places , not only without , but perhaps against the consent or due call of the ministers or elders , and people of these bounds , let be without any presbyteries mission , as wont regularly to be , according to the acts of your general assemblies , will not think it fair and just to make use of this exception , lest it fall heavier upon themselves . shall it be a right door for the one to enter in at , which is reckoned wrong in the other ? or contrary ? the seventh objection is , the want of a full and free testimony ( as is alledged ) against the incroachments and usurpations made upon the churches rights , and christs prerogative , in and by this indulgence , and otherwise . ans . ( ) sith the indulgence as accepted by the brethren , is free of all erastianism , or homologation of the supremacy , as is already cleared ; what are these incroachments where anent the indulged were concerned to bear witness more , than the rest of you ? why then single ye them out , and make them the butt of this objection ? ( ) we are informed , that at the first indulgence , sufficient was said by one of their number , in name of himself and the rest , before the kings council , to clear that they hold their ministry only of christ , and did not at all allow of , or comply with any jot of erastianism . and further , that all of them , both of the first and second indulgence ( the most part having no immediate access to declare before the magistrate ) did at their entry to their several charges , publickly declare to their people to the same purpose . as also , that divers of them being convented before the council in june — anno — , did express their sense of that act of rules then intimated to them , to the satisfaction of all sober and unprejudiced persons , as the narrative of their carriage at that time at more length bears . though it be true , we grant , enough was not said to stop the mouths of all cavillers , whom nothing would satisfie , except it had amounted to have produced the effect of imprisonment , as befell one of them , &c. yet sure it was more than any others of you did , when ye were convented before the council for not repairing to the places of your confinement , &c. does it not then savour of prejudice and partiality to accuse only the licensed brethren as deficient in a testimony , when no others had done so much , let be out-stripped them , except it be in a corner among some vulgar people ? moreover , it is credibly informed , that the indulged upon all competent occasions , testifies against the iniquities of the times in their sermons , as well as others do ; ( though not indiscreetly to irritate , rather than edifie ) ; and particularly , they have not been wanting to testifie against all things contrary to christs prerogative of being the alone king and head of his church ; as their constant hearers can witness . whence it is apparent they are not so sinfully silent ( as some alledg ) though they make it not their ordinary theme as some others do . neither are they involved in any interpretative compliance , or symbolizing with the evils under consideration , so far as a just testimony can exonerate them thereof . and moreover they are not wanting to give practical testimony for god against the evils of the time , in refusing all practical conforming thereunto , or compliance therewith ; and is not this more than much verbal testimony ? yet ( ) because many do force misconstructions upon their accepted liberty , and have been ready to take offence that so little has been said or done by way of testimony against the incroachments of the time , it could have been wished , that ( besides your nonconformity thereunto , and suffering upon that score which the sober cannot but think a real , material , great , practical testimony of far more importance and significancy than much verbal ; as is plain from luk. . , . matth. . , . ) we wish there had also been , or yet were , a formal , solemn , express testimony , in ample and discreet form , agreed upon , and published by both the indulged and unindulged ministers and people jointly , being jointly concerned therein as a matter of common interest , that the world might see plainly your mind and harmony in this . and this ye know the indulged were never refractory unto , more than others ; yea , was forward for it ; but ye know by whom it was obstructed , and who did draw back and decline to concur with them , and so by deserting them , discouraged them from proceeding in so choice a duty . but albeit this general concurrence in a full testimony , seems necessary for sundry grave reasons , namely for the benefit of posterity and after-ages ; yet seeing nothing of this kind is done , yea counted by some scarce practicable in the circumstances ye are in , let all of you join in lamenting the defect ; and seeing the unindulged are no less short in giving the magistrate a true information and just representation of the sinfulness of these matters , and have stood as little up to witness and plead for god before the ruler as the indulged , let both the one sort and the other , lay their hand on their mouth , and confess fainting and failing , and pity and pray for one another . but none to upbraid it to another . however , be it supposed , the indulgent were deficient in this point of duty , even beyond others , yet what were that but their personal failing , but nothing justly to reflect upon their liberty , nor to cast at their ministry , unless ye make every personal failing of that consequence ; which were a wild and dangerous principle ? the eighth objection is taken from their observing of their confinement ( as is alledged ) , yea , their setling at all in a fixed ministry , and not rather continuing loose of all particular charge to serve the church in an indefinite itinerant way , as others do in this time of her need . as to the matter of their confinement , we say , ( ) the act of confinement , being not of a spiritual , but of a civil nature , like imprisonment , however unjust it be , yet we hope ye will not call it erastianism , nor spiritual supremacy in the magistrate to impose it ; nor an homologation of that supremacy , if ministers submit to it ; it being in its kind not extra f●rum civile , or illegal and incompetent ; no more nor other civil punishments and pressures unjustly inflicted upon , and submitted unto by the godly in all generations . and surely , to confine one particular minister , or the whole party , is all of one kind , differing only in magis & minus , which varieth not the kind , whatever incommoda or ill consequents follow upon the one more than on the other , that also makes no intrinsecal difference . ( ) we would fain know why ye quarrel your brethrens submitting unto , and observing of their confinement ( though exercising their ministry in the place , to the edification and service of this poor church not a little ) , more than ye quarrel others submitting unto , and observing inviolably their banishment from their former charge , yea and others their banishment from scotland , by which means this church is wholly deprived of their service ? ( ) we hope , ye will not say , that it is simply and absolutely unlawful to submit , even to unjust confinement , or to observe it for any time ; for that were both against scripture and reason , and to condemn the generation of the righteous , who have submitted to the like , yea to more hard and prejudicial sufferings . did not john the apostle submit to his confinement unto patmos ? rev. . and paul to his at rome , act. . did not your worthy mr. r. bruce submit to his confinement unto innerness ? others also to theirs , in kintyre , boot , arran , & c ? and mr. d. dickson , to his at toraff ? mr. rutherford to his at aberden ? when yet their ministry was no less needed else-where , yea much more than your brethrens is now . and if any confinement or other prejudice redound to the gospel , through the restraint laid upon their persons , they being passive therein , and only the magistrate active , what guilt lyes at their door , more than if they were imprisoned ? are not sufferers to be held innocent ? is not confinement ( upon their part ) a sad piece of suffering ? and shall they be counted sinners for suffering ? look on it then henceforth as their affliction , not their sin . ( ) whatever sinfulness might be alledged in submitting unto this sentence of confinement in an absolute way , as being obstructive to several necessary duties that lye upon them , which cannot be followed with a peremptory observation of confinement ; yet what doth that say against a limited observation thereof , viz. in so far as may be consistent with necessary duties to the church and gospel , and in as far as they are not called by any duty to break it ? what fault is it to observe it , while it doth not compet with any duty ? that is , while no duty occurs which cannot be gone about without transgressing it ? and who of all the indulged did ever submit further unto it ? being ready to disobserve it , when ever duty otherwise called them so to do . only they love not to trample upon the magistrates authority , to transgress without just cause his hardest sentences . yet so far only , and no further , do they regard such sentences , as that when the authority of god interposes , disobliging them to observe them , they scruple not to say with the apostles , better obey god than man. ( ) seeing the confinement is a civil sentence , though mollified with a liberty of preaching , questionless the transferring that confinement to another place with the same liberty , is of the same very nature ; and no pure exercise of ecclesiastical power and government ; whence it is evident that it is a great mistake to say , it is a planting and transplanting of ministers ecclesiastical ; but a meer civil and local mutation of their personal abode , which only consequently draws along with it the exercise of their ministry , wheresoever their persons go ; even as if they were translated from one prison to another . and who but papists will say , but ministers bodies and persons are under the magistrates jurisdiction as other mens ? and that it is no erastianism at all to dispose of them ? ( ) what reason is there to say this cantonizing of those places and ministers , and confining of the gospel , is their sin ? for , albeit it be the magistrates fault to shut them up thus into corners , yet who can justly lay it to ministers charge being sufferers therein ? and albeit they be put under chains and fetters of corporal confinement , as paul was at rome , and john in patmos , yet the word of god is not bound , tim. . . but may have , and has free course , notwithstanding people not being debarred from coming to them , though they like jeremiah be shut up ( as it were ) in the court of the prison that they cannot go far abroad among people , see act. . , ● . further know , that ministers ( as above said ) submit no further to their confinement than may consist with the duties of their calling ; so that when god calls them to go visit or preach to other parts , in that case they observe it not , nor stick to transgress it , god calling them thereto , as he did peter to go forth out of prison , act. . , . when yet paul and silas having the same open doors , but not the same call to go forth , lay still till authority put them forth , act. . , , . as to all this , that it seems a strange conceit , to say the gospel is quite confined and shut up where-ever the persons of so many ministers are confined ; as if there were no gospel to be had in the land , but from them ; no not from the hand of the rest of non-conform ministers not comprehended in this confinement . next , as to their fixing , and that in this case , when there is such paucity of honest ministers , and the necessity of the church is great , calling for mens labours to be extended throughout all the land ; observe , . that this objection militates nothing against the use-making of the indulged liberty , in the general , but only against the containing the exercise of their ministry within these parishes ; an objection common against all fixed ministers , what way soever they enjoy it : and therefore it is wondred at , that the indulged only should be pressed with it , and all the out-cry made upon them ; when they are not alone in the fault , if a fault it be . how many of the outed ministers lye by in corners , less extensive in their usefulness to the church , than the indulged ? and yet the edge of the objection is whetted only against the licensed brethren : what this savoureth of , we leave to your selves to judge . . we demand , what is this great necessity , so much decantated and objected against the indulged's fixing ? what , are ther● not enow of hands besides to overtake that work , were they all put to it , and regularly disposed of ? sure , the principal objectors , however they make clamour of the necessity of desolate and indigent parts , to cast odium upon fixed ministers , yet seem they to be able enough of themselves alone for that work ; yea and to spare now and then a visit also to indulged mens bounds , or near their confines , whither their people may resort . what necessity is there of this ? and why do not these objectors go and labour in a more permanent way , in these needy places , and not be so oft where there is so little need ? . if the harvest be great , and labourers few ; christs direction is , pray the lord of the harvest to raise up , and thrust out labourers into his vineyard , as in matth. . but where doth he advise , that till all the vineyard be cultivated and dressed equally well in all its parts , at least provided with labourers , none should fix to a particular station or charge ? do we not know , that in the primitive times there were no less necessities of the people , and paucity of ministers ; the church then being but in her infancy , and much of the countrey pagan ? yet did they not settle pastors in every church and every city , as they could have access ? as in acts . . tit. . . and in the times of your first reformation , was it not your church her care ( though her need was seven-fold more than now ) to settle and fix a ministry , by degrees , as it could be attained ? settling , and not unsettling , being ever accounted the great 〈…〉 perfection of the church . . consider , that the indulged , as upon the one hand , they look upon themselves not as being apostles , or actually universal ministers of the universal church ( though ministers of the church universal , habitu & actu primo ; ) neither as pastors at large , in the prelatick way , to take a whole province for their charge and diocy , as the prelates do ; but for ordinary , and statedly , they are watchmen , to stand at a particular post ; or like shepherds , to feed a particular flock , of which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , ( acts . . ) and consequently , that the charge of all the churches doth not lye equally upon them ; pastors being , by office , fixed stars : and it being proper to the great luminaries , apostles , prophets , evangelists , to have no definite sphere to move in ; so upon the other hand , they do not fix in their charges in the independent way , as peremptorily tyed and limited to that particular people ; but they fix in the good old primitive and presbyterian way , viz. ordinarily , and in a stated way , to labour in a particular charge ; yet so as they may , and will , upon a sufficient occasion and call , go and preach any where for a time , for the church's good . and who can look upon this qualified and scriptural fixing , as a fault ? . the indulged ( we judg ) do exceedingly compassionate the need of other places , so dark and desolate ; and are willing to concur to propagate the gospel in these places , so far as may be competent unto them , rom. . , . but they may perhaps humbly desire to be considered these few things , which seem to plead excuse for their not going so much abroad , as some would have them , who complain of their not doing as others do . first , until all the ministers out of charge ( who have no other work to do ) be put to it , to supply needy places in a way of watering , at least ; and that done , it be apparent , that the work of the gospel cannot otherwise be carried on , unless the indulged relinquish their present station , and go forth and travel in an evangelistical way to promote it : they think the need of them not so very great . secondly , it would be considered , they are not idle where they are , they are at work in the lords vineyard in this land ; ( not wholly useless to this needy church , as some worthy brethren in exile are ) yea and in a peculiar sort , tyed to labour in these places before others ; and these places needing and desiring all they can do and more , how then can it be any other , than to rob peter to pay paul ; to put them from their present needy people ( who think they cannot , without loss and prejudice , want them almost a day ) to go and travel among others ? and would it not give ministers just ground of complaining in the words of the spouse , cant. . . my mothers children were angry with me , and made me keeper of the vineyards , but mine own vineyard have i not kept . look what advantage ye think their going abroad would do to other places ; would it not damnifie their own people as much ? and should they rob their own , to supply others ? add to this , thirdly , that the indulged ministers stand in such circumstances , that if they adventure , were it but to go for a time , to labour among other people , contrary to the rulers leave ; ye know what inevitable hazard they are in , not only of personal prejudice , as others are , but of loss of that publick peaceable exercise of their ministry they now enjoy : a priviledge , which all the good may be done by their excursions to preach here and there , will not countervail the damage of losing it ; specially , sith many of the indulged , were they deprived of their liberty , and laid by , would be certainly rendred useless and unserviceable to the church , at least much less capable ; being unable to traverse up and down , and preach in the fields , as others do . and what advantage will redound to the church , by hudling them up again in a corner , who now are steadable in their publick station to whole country-sides about them , who resort to hear them , though they go not forth unto them ? since therefore it is doubted by them , if it be in majus bonum ecclesiae , for the greater good , and not rather for the greater detriment , of the church , to adventure upon that which inevitably draweth the ruin of their present liberty along with it ; who can blame them not to be rash therein ? namely , considering , that if hazard be a sufficient argument to excuse the banished ministers their not returning to the work , and others their lurking when looked after by the magistrate ; certainly it cannot but plead as strongly , and more , for excusing the indulged for not going to preach otherwhere ; their hazard being more than any's , viz. not only personal , but ministerial . and further , the people over whom they now are , being particularly interessed in them , it seems they are not sui juris , i. e. not free to dispose of themselves to preach where they may ( upon all perils , as other ministers are ) without their flocks consent , to whom they owe all they can do , as ministers ; and whom they may not adventure to rob of their ministry , by exposing themselves to the danger of that itinerant preaching , without their leave : till therefore their peoples consent be had , pardon them to be shy of this matter . fourthly , since this general way of preaching , which some would put them unto , if practised by them , would doubtlesly infer the forfaultry and loss of their present liberty ; and they may preach their valedictory to their present charge that day they go forth to the new : we would fain know who shall put them to run this risk ? and who shall direct them where to go unto ? or for how long ? we think ye will not say , they should run at random uncalled or unsent . sure , they need such a relevant call and mission as may warrant them to hazard their present freedom , and may quiet their conscience in case of suffering the loss of it , besides personal sufferings , which may by and attour happen them . now , what is the call or mission they have to that work ? will ye say they should go proprio motu , of their own heads ? what a door might that open to confusion ? and will that satisfie their conscience , when it is said to them , as to elijah , what dost thou here ? if ye say , they should go to satisfie their brethren , who grudgeth at their tarrying at home , and be disposed of , and ordered by them . answ . who made these rulers over their brethren ? and were not this to set them up as prelates and dictators to their brethren ? and to prostitute their ministry to gratifie the humors of men , even to sacrifice it to their discontents ? wherein what peace or answer of a good conscience they would have , namely , if suffering come , we see not . all which premises being seriously weighed in the ballance of christian sobriety , who can justly wonder that they stick so closely by their present stations ? neither need this difference of practise make any division , no more than the different employments of soldiers in an army , allows them to mutiny ; some being allocate to stay in garison , some to lie in the fields , others to scout forth here and there , as the prince pleases to order . as the indulged wishes a blessing upon the labours of their honest brethren , who visit needy places ; so it were fit those , who , in providence , are loose of all particular charge , would be doing at that general , indefinite , itinerant way of preaching , unto these needy parts , till god otherwise provide ; and not grudge at their brethren , who are not idle at home , though they be not free to come abroad with them . and , least of all , should people make it an exception against hearing them ; to say i will not , should not , hear such a man preach within his parish , because i get him not also abroad elsewhere to hear , how ridiculous were that ! if it be said , then what shall be done to supply the needy parts of the land ? answ . if there be not enow of hands among the unindulged ( who seems lyes nearest that work , wanting other work ) then let an orderly way be taken , by common consent , to provide for that ; and it is not ( we judg ) to be doubted , but the indulged will submit unto whatever shall , by common counsel and consent , be determined and laid upon them , as competent unto them , and consistent with their present ministry ; yea and albeit it tend to undo their present liberty , if it be judged by the judicatory more for the good of the gospel ; they are willing to be ruled by the common advice and determination of brethren . but to unhinge and cast themselves loose upon no other warrant , than to please some male-contented spirits , will ye not think it very pardonable in them to forbear it ? specially , while all others not in their condition , are not put to work ; who seem to be more nearly concerned in that itinerant way of ministry , having no access unto a settled ministry , as your brethren have . if ye say , peoples necessity is call enough to determine ministers to go and preach to them . answ . . then must ye go to the indies rather than stay in scotland ; and to the highlands , rather than lowlands of scotland , because the necessity there is greater , yea and access also , if ye will but try it . . necessity alone is only relevant to determine idle men , or freemen , that are at their own disposal ; such as the indulged are not , being tyed to particular charges , as others are not . should they commit injustice , in robbing other churches of their labours , ( whose debtors they are in a special way ) to the intent they may charitably relieve the necessities of others ? ought not justice to preponderate to works of charity ? now ninthly and lastly , it is objected , that this indulged liberty is , and could not but be , of direful consequence and effects ; and the indulged in accepting it , have done more ill than all the bishops and curates in scotland : what an unhappy , unhallowed hemlock must it then be ? not a plant of gods planting ? answ . pitiful it is , what a deal of hue and cry is here set against honest men by virulent passion ! we are astonished at such rage and raving ! why , what are these bad effects the acceptance of their liberty doth natively produce ? ye say , more ill have they done thereby to the church , than all the prelates and their party . were this true , why then has the prelates and their friends such an antipathy against it ? do not all know it was granted over their bellies , and sore against their mind ? it is their eye-sore as it is yours ; and to this day never did they like it , except in so far as ye made it an apple of contention among your selves , and thereby diverted your edge of them . did not many of them say , it was the high way to break , undermine , and wear out their government ? thinking that as dagon could not stand before the ark , neither prelacy beside any little of presbytery , without losing ground daily ? did they not exclaim against it as a reviving , perpetuating , and rivetting the presbyterian interest , which they thought had been quite broken and bvried ? sure they have other thoughts of it , than you . again , what one point of the received doctrine , worship , discipline , and government of the church of scotland , has your brethren , by their indulgence receded from ? whilst the prelatick party have overturned the whole fabrick of her government , and bears down all that joyn not issues with them therein ? does your brethren persecute you as they do ? do they not rather plead for you , excuse your extravagancies ; protect and shelter and feed you , so far as they can ? or is the pure and free preaching of the gospel by them , any harm to the church ? is the restoring of so much of an honest ministry to the free exercise of their ministry , a nail of the lords interest , in the holy place , such an intollerable evil ? the prelates indeed count it no small evil , and are you and they in so far agreed ? but while ye charge them so heavily , what if they should retort and tell you , that as hereticks destroy the fundamentalia doctrinae ; so do schismaticks and dividers , fundamentalia ecclesiae , by dissolving the compages of christs mystical body into so many fractions ; and that a mutiny in an army is no less destructive , than treachery ; and cutting and wounding of a mans body , may be no less fatal to his life , than stripping him of his cloaths and ornaments , yea or some grains of poison . but because dolus versatur in generalibus , we pray you condescend upon the evils particularly , which their acceptance of this liberty hath done : and because si accusasse satis esset , quis erit innocens , we pray you prove what ye assert and alledge upon them . if ye strike upon the old string of their setting up erastianism , homologating the supremacy , &c. that is refuted , and they vindicated therefrom already . but there are three instances further , we hear somewhat of . . say ye , by this means the rest of their brethren are exposed to suffering , who are not free to accept that liberty , or are secluded from it ; did all stick together , it might be more safe . answ . here is strange policy , instead of sound divinity : what trouble cometh on any for refusing or not getting a share in the liberty ? on this score who are put to suffering ? what accession then hath brethrens acceptance , to the trouble of the refusers ? if trouble befal them upon other accounts , what is that to the indulgence ? or , would the indulged , their refusal of their liberty , lenified the magistrates offence , and protected all the rest from suffering ? or rather irritated him more , and drawn on suffering on themselves with others ? who will say , those of the children of the captivity , who returned to jerusalem , when liberty was granted , did expose the rest who stayed still , or were detained in babylon , to further bondage and suffering ? will ye not be pleased if suffering befal you , unless all drink of that same cup ; albeit in providence they be not called unto it ? must your brethren tarry and take part with you , merely for company-sake , and let the lords work , to which they have a call and free access , stand ? and refuse a lawful liberty of a necessary duty , only because others are not pleased , or not partakers ? but , as we think they wrong the indulged who look upon them as altogether free of suffering , seeing their very liberty is annexed to confinement ; so we bless god to see the generality of other ministers as yet meeting with so easie a measure ; and some of those that make the greatest noise of complaint , enjoying their own accommodations ( god so providing ) every way comparable , if not preferable , to these so much magnifyed , falling to the share of the indulged . but in fine , while ye speak of their exposing you to the magistrates displeasure by their acceptance of the favour , think how ye can clear your selves of exposing your brethren to the peoples obloquy and fury , by your non-acceptance . . some say , it tends to shut up the gospel in a corner , and to harden the magistrate in his erastian incroachments . answ . as for the former of these , it is taken off already in answer to the eighth objection : sure their confinement is a grievance , an affliction , but not their sin : if the magistrate , who has power over their persons , do shut them up not only in one province , but in one parish , yea in one prison ; and if they submit and yield their bodies to the power of the magistrate , what fault in all this can be charged upon them , who are merely sufferers in the case ? and as for the alledged hardning the magistrate ; unless ye prove that their acceptance of the liberty is either in it self sinful , or at least but indifferent , and no ways necessary ; what doth your hypothesis and arguing reprove ? must duty be deserted because any stumble on it ? but besides , your hypothesis , we humbly suppose , is groundless , and merely alledged by you , who pick quarrels at , and strain all topicks to sugillat their foresaid acceptance : sure it hath no native tendency to such an effect . but see if your refusing to accept , do not harden the magistrate in his hard thoughts of you , and of the perswasion ye own , and in the severe resolutions and courses used , or may be used , toward you and the cause . . some do criminate the accepted liberty , as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , has occasioned much division and difference , and is much disliked by many godly ; and therefore cannot be sonsy , but some woful , unhappy thing . answ . this was briefly cleared before in answer to the fourth objection ; and therefore we shall now say no more to it , but these five things . . that there are as many , and far more , godly , not against it , as are against it : is it not too pharisaical a censure , to monopolize the title and reputation of godliness to you and your party that be against it , and to condemn all as ungodly and backslidden that are for it ? good information says , the generality of the grave , judicious , serious , and sober godly , are not against it , as it is accepted by your brethren ; yea and that fewer are for dividing and renting from their brethren upon that score . it is by good hands said , there are not above ten or twelve ministers , and but few also of the old christians , in all the land , against the liberty as it is accepted , but only against the complex of the business , which the indulged are not for either , as was cleared in stating of the question : neither are there many of these ten or twelve for making it a ground of division or separation . the only persons that be simpliciter against it , and for dividing , ( so far as we can learn ) are a very few , and those mostly of the younger inconsiderater sort , both of preachers and professors . ( ) as for difference of practice , that needs no more breed division or animosity , nor jephtha's was a just ground of ephraims quarrel , judg. . , , . or these disciples was for the rest their snarling at it , in luk. . , . when some of the children of judah returned to jerusalem upon cyrus his proclamation , and others stayed still , or were some way detain'd in babylon , what ground of division or out-cast was this ? or should difference of lots divide your hearts and affections ? see what was said to this before in answer to the fifth objection . and further , suffer us to tell you , that as when the generality of non-conform ministers were ejected , some were in providence overlooked and spared , and that without the envious eye or grudg of heart of those who were thrust out ; so we wonder how this difference of lots when some are favoured with liberty , others not , should make any breach among sober men . is not god to be eyed and stooped unto in this , and to be waited on by faith and patience till it be otherwise ? ( ) do we not find our lord jesus himself , his gospel , and gracious miracles , sometimes a stone of stumbling , and rock of offence , matter of division to many visible professors of religion ? as luk. . , . joh. . . joh. . , , . mat. . , , . luk. . , , , . joh. . , , , . act. . . act. . , , . but who will therefore say , they were not of god , but unhappy things being the matter of such disturbances , obloquy and contradiction , every where spoken against , and occasioning sad consequents ? they that take offence , when no just ground of offence is given , let them see to it , the blame lyes at their own door , mat. . , . suffer us to say , like as christ said of himself , mat. . . blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended at a thing so innocent , so necessary as this permitted liberty ( in so far as it is accepted ) is . ( ) sith , as was said before , your brethrens acceptance of that liberty is in it self a guiltless practice , then sure , however it be an occasion , yet can it be no culpable cause of division . the only cause ( that should bear the blame ) is mens mistakes and corruptions , whereof even professors are not free . these are the wedges of division which actively rents you asunder . ( ) we are made to understand that any of the truly serious godly their being against this matter , is through want of right information , yea some's industrious practising upon , and daubing them with most injurious representations of the state of the matter , and odious calumnies of their brethren , done on purpose to draw honest people away after them , act. . . who ( almost ) of all these good people understand the controversie or true state of the question , but are led , not by light , but prejudices , and byassed affection ? are they not made to believe that the indulged have closed with all the whole complex of the magistrates acts forementioned , and have homologated the spiritual supremacy , and joined issues with erastian incroachments , and other such like false and foul alledgances , whereof the brethren are free , as is above cleared ? how have we oft been ashamed upon your behalfs , to find in your writings , private discourses , and publick sermons , your greatest topick , and achillean arguments to be reproaches , and groundless accusations of your brethren ? and these born in upon people as divine oracles , and certain truths ? thus good people have been and are abused by some ardelio's , who make it their work to infuse into their minds prejudices at the brethren , as guilty of a defection , and then to work upon their misinformed zeal , to turn their edg against the brethren ? how many can attest these undeniable verities ? whence it is evident how much honest peoples case is to be pitied and lamented , as hugely abused and imposed upon for strengthening of a party , and making up a faction , the tendency whereof is not seen by well-meaning people , who are led like absaloms followers in the simplicity of their hearts . and had not the indulged brethren been too silent for peace-sake , to speak for themselves , expecting that god and time would have cleared people of their mistakes and misapprehensions , much of all this misleading of people into such rancors and rage , might have been happily prevented by a full and true stating and vindicating of their practice . and if this mean essay of ours do contribute clearing unto any one , even the least of saints , and shall provoke some of these brethren to do such a necessary work better and more fully , being better able for it , we shall not repent our adventure , but bless the father of lights for it , jam. . , . now , dear friends , all these things considered , how little ground seems there to be for making so great a stir , as ye do ? as if the all of religion lay at the stake in all this matter , and these honest men had made the vilest defection ! whereas lay aside prejudice , byass , and personal slanders , and let any weigh their cause in an even ballance , the ballance of the sanctuary , they will be found in it not so black by far , as some take them to be . be intreated therefore in the lord to hearken to that warning , act. . . what god hath cleansed , that call not ye common or unclean . we hope ye will tremble to be found perverters of the right ways of the lord. call not light darkness , no more than darkness light . is not as well he that condemneth the just , as he that justifieth the wicked , an abomination to the lord ? prov. . . and suppose all that is said , do not meet with , nor fully clear every scruple ( it being hard to satisfie where prejudice is great ; and a quibling wit may start more objections than we have heard of , or has leisure to speak unto ) , yet conceive by what is said ( though weakly ) , more charitable thoughts of your brethren , and of what they have done ; and let them not stand condemned with you under so gross a character as hitherto ; rom. . , . cor. . . but unite in the lord , notwithstanding your differences , the grounds thereof being so inconsiderable as hath been seen . we doubt not but themselves could , and would , give you a more convincing vindication , were not their aversation even from seeming to contend , and their hopes that their integrity will defend it self , makes them loth to enter the lists . however our ardent desire to beget a good understanding between you , has thus far carried us forth unto , not an eristick debate , but a serious disquisition for discovery and removal of mistakes . to return then to our proposed course of advices . advice . in the sixth place , let us lay this before you , that however your judgment stand in the matter contraverted ( for we are to impose upon no bodies judgment , but to leave every one to their own light ) , yet ye who are against the indulgence , as accepted , and fomenters of the division , consider , though ye be but few , yet the stir ye make is great , and one man will easily raise more fire than twenty will be able to extinguish . therefore be exhorted in the fear of god to carry the difference more soberly . are your brethren willing to let you enjoy your judgments , and serve your light in your own practice ? and to live in peace with you , notwithstanding the difference ? and as to things wherein ye and they are agreed to join with you therein , till god in his time clear up the mistake that is betwixt you , and shew upon whose side it is ? and will not ye be content , unless ye impose your apprehensions upon them , and have them conform unto , and lackey after your opinion and practice ? must your judgment be the standard and canon to every bodies else ? and all be anathematized that differ in the least from you ? can there be no peace with you , unless ye have leave to trail them at your heels ? will ye agree with none that are not of your mind in every thing ? then actum est de pace , peace is gone for ever on this side of time ; for , non datur intellectus averroisticus , mens minds to jump to an ace in all things is hardly to be expected . while we know only in part , will there not be perpetually different measures of light ? and diversity of apprehensions in many things ? theology having its own problems , even in greater points than this , which calleth for sobriety and mutual tolerance . as we are not for scepticism , nor sinful syncretisms ; so we tremble at the vanity of dogmatizing in things of this nature . but whatever ye deem it , treat not your brethren undiscreetly . speak or write to them , rather than of them . argue the case with them , convince them if ye can , luk. . . but usurp not a magistery over them ; presume not to be dictators to them more , than ye would take it well they should impose on you , jam. . . remember they must serve their own consciences , and be guided by their own light , and not yours , rom. . . ye think them wrong , so do they , no doubt , you : but how would ye take it , if they served you as ye do them , with outrageous out-crys , virulent epistles , and philippick declamations ? what if they did preach against you , your divisive principles , and unbrotherly practices , as erroneous and donatistical ( if not worse ) , as ye call theirs erastian ? what a pitiful taking would ye and they be in by such contradictions and invectives ? do therefore no otherwise than ye would be done unto , mat. . . think ye are but men fallible , and may be mistaken in not a few of your confident notions ; and that it is possible they may have as much of the mind of christ as you . therefore reverence their judgments , so far at least as not lightly to trample upon the same : or , if ye were sure they were in the wrong , yet think , surely they mind honestly ( as they judg ye do ) and have not wickedly departed from the lord , psal . . . if they be stept aside , it is but for want of light , which ye ( who think ye see more ) should pity and bemoan to god , and labour to discover their mistake unto them , ( for as yet ye cannot charge them with contumacy , sufficient conviction never being yet held forth unto them . ) but , o! reproach them not ; rate them not behind their backs ; go not to preach them down , nor out of the hearts of honest people , much less to preach their own people from them ! what service were that to christ , or his kingdom ? or what edification unto people ? sure ye do more hurt than ye are aware of by this course , staggering and unsetling people , weakening your honest brethrens hands in the gospel , and marring the success of their labours what ye can . see jam. . . gal. . , . but what ? are not ye and they agreed in chiefest principles and theses ? what 's your difference then but about the application of principles to some hyp●theses or particular cases and practices ? the intricacy whereof , with the sense of your short-sightedness , may teach you to think , speak , and act more soberly , and with all due respect to them that differ from you . o fall not into a stated schism upon so small and disputable a matter ! nor lift up your selves in conceit above your fellows ! are ye preachers of christ ? so are they : have ye the seal of your labours , so have they ; and that they have not more , is perhaps through your fault , your contending with them , thereby confounding and distracting their people ; and taking them off their souls ease , by your perplexing controversies and exceptions against their ministers . and if ye continue by this contending , to discourage your brethren , and enervate the work of god in their hands , fear lest ye be found guilty of destroying so much of the kingdom of jesus christ , and countable for the blood of these souls whose edification ye mar , by abusing and amusing them with your bartering at their ministers , and bringing them and their preaching into disesteem , so far as ye can , as zach. . . smite the shepherd , and the sheep shall be scattered . and what have ye gained when this is done ? what advantage is it to the gospel , to break so many faithful mens ministry ? and what peace will it yield you when accomplished ? bella geri placuit , nullos habitura triumphos . it were but a cadmean victory . what! may still the old question be put unto you , does your piety aed zeal lye all in negatives ? ( as theirs in col. . . ) are ye only skilful to destroy ? and bold to treat the friends of christ like foes ? preach the gospel , and propagate real godliness as much as ye can : but o! beware of hurting the lords work and vineyard in your brethrens hands ! will it not be but a poor vassalage to preach down you● brethren , while ye should preach up christ ? and to propagate your private opinions more than the power of piety ? or to draw disciples after you more than after christ ? were it not better make one real christian , then proselyte twenty to your side and party ? ye complain of your brethrens want of success , as peninnah upbraided hannah with her barrenness ; but do not ye much mar their fruitfulness ? o be tender of them , for the gospel's sake ! go , we pray you , convert the prophane to piety , rather than preach professors into faction and parties . mind the great interest of the gospel more than your particular debates , or personal interests . away with selfish designs under a spiritual mask ! beware of giving ground for that old complaint , faciunt causam suam , causam publicam . let not not your excellent parts , fervor , zeal and spitits , be spent upon so unprofitable a task , as this of jangling , plunging , and confounding is . and tempt not people to any unhappy courses , which your selves may repent of in the end , and come off with that inconsiderate warriours word in your mouth , non putarum — it is easie to kindle a fire , but not so easie to set bounds unto it , when and where ye list , saying , hitherto shalt thou come , but no further . nay , once kindled , it may rage whither soever the winds and aptness of the matter to take with it , may carry it , till all be burned down to ashes . — and finally , let not your brethren have cause to take up that sad regrate of the psalmists , psal . . , , . had it been an enemy , &c. how bitter is this ? were it rampant romanists , or inimical prelatists , or foul mouth'd sectaries , who thus battered at honest ministers , it were more tolerable ? but to see brethren at such odds , tearing the flesh ( as it were ) off the bones of their brethren , by bitter railings and reproaches , ( which are as drawn swords , psal . . . ) how incongruous and unkindly is that ? and may not the world wonder at it ? what! shall all your edg and sting be turned against them , no less upright than your selves ? shall they have no such adversaries as you whom they love and desire to be at peace with ? and with whom they agree in all things ( almost ) else ? will ye do the prelates work for them , in breaking that little liberty which at first they trembled at , till they saw you made it a bone of contention ? and so more likely to break your selves and it both than to hurt them , while ye stumble so upon it . what thanks will ye get for joining issues with them ? see obad. v. , , , , . and will ye so positively condemn your brethren unheard , ( joh. . . ) and persecute them as apostates , before ever ye wair an admonition on them ? it is our admiration and astonishment , that some of you ( as is informed ) takes the confidence to baffle them in sermons , letters , and private discourses to the people and others ; and yet to this day never used the brotherliness to write or speak unto themselves , what might have sufficed to convince them of their error , if any be . the grossest of hereticks are not allowed by the rules of the word to be so hardly dealt with , tit. . . pronounce no anathema upon them , till ye first take pains sufficient to reclaim them , and find them obstinate . shall ye be sharper scourges in their sides , and thorns in their eyes , than any others ? do ye like it , to put them to cry to god against you , and ( like job ) to complain of their friends mockage , injustice , and cruel usage ? shall not god visit for these things ? zeph. . . obad. v. , , , , . beware of inventing , or venting stories and reproaches of such friends of christ ! and make not calumnies the strongest arguments you plead against them with . monopolize not the reputation of honesty to your selves ; give your brethren charity , and treat them not disrespectively . to stigmatize your brethren with black characters , and odious imputations , consider again and again what spirit it cometh from , jam. . , , , . upon all these grounds , and many more which might be added , be intreated ( in the bowels of christ ) to remit and relent of your acrid fervor , and bring your dispositions and differences to some temper , and manage your discord with more sobriety . we think we may say , the two part of your differences lyes more in the acrimony of your spirits and alienation of affection , than in the distance of your principles . would ye let go the misunderstanding and prejudices that are between you , and god heal your dispositions and distempers , the two part of your disease were away . advice . ye who are indulged , a word next to you : o bear with your brethrens differing from you ; and judg charitably of them , as to the most part at least . construct it want of light , not sinistrousness of intention or affection . he that keepeth a day , keepeth it to the lord ; and he that keepeth it not to the lord , he keepeth it not . in problematick questions not defined by the church , allow others a latitude , and continue your brotherly forbearance . if even with infidels and hereticks the servant of the lord must not strive , but be gentle , &c. ( as tim. . , . ) how much less with sick and feverish brethren ? if any mans inconsiderate and opinionative zeal carry them unto any unbrotherly word or deed toward you , be not ye overcome of their evil , but overcome their evil with your good . pack up their reproachings , and say , father , forgive them , they know not what they are doing . let not their vexing you fret you into a wearying of your work , ( psal . . , , . ) nor unto any disaffection or lessening of your respect unto them . love them as brethren , notwithstanding all injuries ( as joseph did his ) , and honour their zeal in the lord , and pray he may channel it right , and set its bounds ; for so it might do him excellent service . tolerate also good peoples infirmities ; let none of their capricious humours ( which these reeling times tempts them unto ) diminish your tender care of them . seek that which strayeth , heal the diseased , and by gentle dealing convince them that ye walk in the spirit of jesus , whom ye serve . hard things ( we confess ) are cut out for you ; but put on patience and holy resolution , stand your ground notwithstanding all batteries , and do your work over the belly of all discouragements , ( heb. . , . ) what though ye be the witnesses prophesying in sackcloth , ( rev. . . ) your crown will be the massier . serve the lord through good report , and ill report , honour and dishonour ; and make full proof of your ministry , which is thought so considerable by satan , else he would not oppugn and oppose it so , upon the right hand and the left . you are the eye-sore of the prelates and their party , and the butt of those your brethrens mistaken zeal . be strong therefore in the lord , &c. our soul pities you , being as the speckled bird among the birds of the field , laid at upon all hands , and grinded as betwixt two mill-stones , viz. the prelatick parties enmity upon the one hand , and the fierceness of these male-contented friends upon the other , ( and who may stand before envy ? prov. . . ) but learn of your master to endure contradiction , and to be set for a sign to be spoken against , that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed , ( luk. . , . ) endure the cross , and despise the shame . wounds in the house of friends as well as of foes , must be born till he arise and plead your cause , and bring forth your righteousness as the light , &c. this is the day of your trial , and these are the instruments chosen of the lord for that end ; acquit your selves like men , like christians , like ministers in it . bear the indignation of the lord patiently , because perhaps ye have sinned . if shimei rail , he may be a good monitor , though a bad judg. take your vexations as so many whetstones , to keep you in an holy edg , that ye blunt not in these up-sitting times , and as spurs in your sides , to prick you up to diligence in duty ; and so may you get meat out of the eater , &c. stoop to your lot , there may be a blessing in it , ( sam. . , , . ) but bitter though your life and labour be , yet faint not , o faint not ! but approve your selves to god and man in your masters service ; and by piety , painfulness and powerfulness in the gospel , convince gain-sayers , stop the mouths of those that speak evil of you falsly , and preach home again all the respect and affection which these times of difference has derogated from you . what ? have ye not the seal of your ministry ( a witness of gods approbation ) upon the hearts of many ? even of some who perhaps are now alienated from you , who once spake of a blessedness in your ministry , and received you as angels , though now in the hour of tentation , they are become as an enemy ? gal. . , . though conversion of sinners be not so frequent ( and yet some there is ) yet has not god been evidently with you for confirmation and building up of the saints , and for conviction upon all , who , whether they be better of you or not , yet are forced to say , god is in you and with you , and a prophet hath been among them ? as ezek. . , . now , may not these eminent divine assistances , successes , and proofs of acceptance , abundantly compense all your tears , sufferings , and sorrows ? and answer the questioning of your being sent of god , being proofs of christ speaking in you ? consider , the priviledge of your liberty , and think , is not service to god and his people ( which hereby ye get done ) well worth the enduring much contradiction , obloquy and heart-breaking reproach ? remember also your brethrens sufferings are sad at other hands , though none at yours ; and let your sympathizing with them sweeten your own at their hands . and oh! be stirred up to make good use of your liberty which costs you so dear . let your people find through gods help , that it has been their mercy , that ever ye were sent among them ; or whether they hear or forbear , that there has been a prophet among them . keep in good terms with your master , stand in his counsel , know the times , and tell what of the night , and what israel ought to do ; be faithful in all his house as servants ; and good stewards of the mysteries of god. bear burden with your brethren in their tedious sufferings constantly . and pray for a blessing upon their preaching of the gospel , albeit some of them would ruin yours : and whosoever of them may preach christ out of contention , or fast for strife and debate , supposing to add affliction to your griefs , and to detract from your esteem , yet rejoice ye that christ is preached , and that sincerely by the most , phil. . , , , . eighthly , both of you , take heed ye bring not your differences any more unto publick , nor otherwise put them among the people : keep them amongst your selves , where they may abide with less hurt , rom. . , . considering the mischiefs of evulgating them , it will evidently appear happy to bury them in silence or oblivion . if ye interess and engage the people therein , then are ye gone ; and beside other inconvenients thereof , ye shall not get leave to unite again without their consent , which may be hard to gain . how long shall any affect popularity , and thereby subject their ministerial authority to the humours of men and women , for drawing them to their side , to strengthen their party ? by which means people are taught to domineer over ministers , and may fore-run you , and cast at your selves next , when ye begin to sit up and not go along with all their notions and inclinations . ye may perhaps find no small difficulty to regulate and bridle their humours , being once aloft , fortur equis auriga , non audit currus habenas . moreover , what do ye by filling peoples heads with such intangling controversies , but divert their minds , and take them off the main thing ? and turn religion into factions and debates ? and wear them out of heart-tenderness , real exercise of conscience , and the serious study of universal holiness ? if any make it their work to kindle in religious hearers , a factious , opinionative zeal , you may thereby trouble their heads , not better their hearts ; and may sooner make them fire-brands to burn down the peace , purity , and order of the church , than living polished stones for the new jerusalem . yea , likely you may unhinge them so , as to tempt them to cast at all ministers , at all religion , and turn either atheists , or seekers , and sectarians , as woful experience hath many times proved , even in our own days ; so small a friend to the promoting of piety , is division . avoid then carefully to discover your intestine jars and animosities before the people in publick or private . bear not your nakedness to their eyes . — teach them not to meddle with things above their sphere , and beyond their line , ( psal . . , . ) and turn them not aside unto vain janglings , tit. . . tim. . , . tim. . , . & . . & . , . make it rather your work to edifie them in the substantials of religion , and vitals of piety , such as faith , and repentance , humility , sobriety , mortification , self-denial , love and new obedience , &c. how much better were it to fire their hearts with the love of god and man , than to heat their heads with puzling debates , which do but perplex , not edifie , and are far out of the way of their salvation or duty , and doth not at all concern their practice . what profit reap they by being inveigled into such quick-sands ? we have seen many unfleeced of their wool , yea torn in their flesh , by being involved in such thorns , but never any advantaged ? ninthly , study moderation in all things : let not christian prudence pass with you for wisdom of the flesh , nor christian moderation for laodicean lukewarmness . let your moderation be known to all men ; let it be visible and apparent , both in your passions , opinions , and discourses . st . moderate your affections , let not wild-fire take the place of zeal , nor zeal turn passionate , pickish , peevish and bitter . what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? nor does the wrath of man work the righteousness of god. ly . be moderate in your opinions : this moral idol of the mind ( opinion ) is too apt to be adored , and oversway . put a temper to it , and hang a ballance upon it , to keep it in poise and course ; for true is that in common experience , though a fallacy indeed , that opinio est veritate major . and for moderation in opinion , study well , ( ) your fallibility and aptness to mistake , and consequently to dwell in a constant self-jealousie and suspicion . we like not to allow of fluctuating and pyrronian doubting about necessary and vital points , nor to hang all opinions either ( like mahomets tomb between the two loadstones ) in an aequilibrio . yet too much confidence in matters of meer opinion is oft a vanity , refuted sufficiently by the new discoveries time and industry produces , compelling us to alter . but what one thing does contribute more to beget and continue ruptures , than conceit and idolizing of self-wisdom , and self-opinion , with an undervaluing of all that differ from us , while yet ( perhaps ) they may hit nearer the mark of truth than we , and have better advantages to discover it than we ? ( ) study self-reflection , to consider how oft ye have found in time your ( once confident ) opinions to have failed you , that you have been necessitate to change and take up new measures . and this will help you to much moderation , experience being the schoolmaster of very fools . ( ) be moderate in your di●cours●s ; how are some's tongues dipt in gall , and set on fire of hell ! and instead of edifying communication that may minister grace to the hearers , little other than rigid censuring , and bitter back-biting of one another ! o when shall our tongue be our glory , not our shame ! but to bridle the intemperancy of the tongue , study to speak nothing but what god may hear , and as in his hearing ; speak of others as of your selves ; and this will make you speak sparingly , charitably , and with due moderation . and were tongues once well governed , and that unruly evil tamed , no doubt but differences would soon diminish . let your moderation then in all things be known to all men , the lord is at hand . moderaion in our way , is like the symmetry in the humours of the body , which keeps all in health and happiness . tenthly , seeing ye are generally reputed the best of ministers , let both of you prove your selves to be such indeed , by shining in the exercise of real goodness , and of a lively ministry , as ye have access to it . let not the world be mistaken of you . they judg you pious , painful , sober , grave , learned , judicious , and truly zealous for god , making his statutes ( not humour nor interest ) the men of your counsel , and rule of your actings . they take you for excellent heart-warming preachers , &c. o deceive not their good opinion and expectation of you . let them have a proof that ye may be ill wanted from the work of the lord , and that it is no small loss to the church for you to be laid by , and creep into corners . take not meer non-conformity for religion enough , nor honest-heartedness for a ground to justifie miscarriages , or to excuse weaknesses , much less for canonizing all your practices and opinions as sacred , as if ye were infallible because honest . it is believed there are not so many able and godly ministers and christians in any party , proportionally to your number . yet if any of you be found weak , raw , unstudied divines , will it not reflect upon all , and blemish the party ? be not satisfied then with the applause of those that follow you , who may in their charity commend you , while others , impartial or inimical , may observe censurable weaknesses . o study hard , read and pray much , that you may be found champions for god , and accomplished divines , tim. . , . o that some of your novices , itinerants especially , would take more pains in study , that they might be well furnished scribes , &c. and not be rash , to bring forth crude , undigested preachings or resolutions of cases of conscience . it grieveth souls to get ( at any time ) empty , unedifying harrangues of railing or reflections , instead of soul-feeding sermons or discourses . beware of a ga'd of venting your passions , rancour , bitterness , under pretext of preaching against the sins of the time . subtle are the tentations of sin and satan ! eleventhly , exercise your selves unto stedf●stness , and repentance : be men of principles , and understand your principles , and stand to them , rev. . . quit not easily good old principles for any plausible new ones . hold fast by the doctrine , worship , discipline and government of the church of scotland , to which ye are so solemnly and strictly tyed . and let not new interests start new principles , nor put you out of the good old way . take the law and the testimony for your only supreme judg of controversies , rule of faith , and directory of duty . cleave to the lord with full purpose of heart ; and be not soon shaken in your minds with any blast of tentation , nor bewitched with any novelty , ( gal. . , &c. ) keep your garments clean in all revolutions ; and change not articles of your creed and duty , with change of times , as most of conformists do . ecebolius's ( or weather-cocks ) are hateful to the lord , jer. . . it becometh honest men to be no time-servers , or fickle changelings , cor. . . & . . col. . , . . , , . add to this fixedness , the exercise of repentance . be sharp upon your own , even severer against your own faults , than against any others . witness against the publick ills of the time , as ye have access in your station ; but neglect not your own iniquities , for which god is contending so hotly . for what cause is his controversie pleaded so long against you , but for the provocations of sons and daughters , and the iniquities of your holy things ? is there no accursed thing among you , which makes you fall before the adversary ? blame no● one another , but rather each suspect himself , saying , is it i ? is it i ? every one of you , no doubt , hath laid to your coal to make up this great indignation . therefore let every one be mourning as the doves of the valleys , each one for his own iniquity ( persons and families apart ) as well as keeping publick fasts for the abominations of the land. what a token for good would this be ? and would put you in case to sigh and cry , and wrestle with god for the nations sins . and were ye thus lying in the dust before the lord for your selves and zion , and running with your censer in your hand , between the living and the dead , for atonement , crying , spare , o lord , &c. we doubt not but your heats and animosities among your selves would soon cool and calm . twelfthly , guide wisely and tenderly honest people , yet so as still to keep your own place ; to be their guides , and not let them guide you . cherish their good , bear with their infirmities ; but humour them not in their conceits and follies . let never popularity be your snare . spare not to admonish and rebuke with discretion and authority , when need is . take pains as well to inform their consciences rightly , as to raise their affections keenly . study prudently to cross and cure what may be healed , and patiently to endure what cannot be cured . but clap no persons heads in their mistakes , or irregularities , for fear ye lose them if ye cross them ; else ye may be made to lose them upon a worse account , with an ill conscience to boot . despise not the counsel or admonition of any , job . . ) yet if you permit them to turn dictators and leaders to you , your well-days and peace are gone , ( prov. . . ) luther said , there is a pope in every mans belly ; ye may find a bishop in every man and womans breast ; each inclineth to think themselves infallible , and would be a lawgiver unto others , and cannot endure others not to conform to their mind in every thing : which usurping disposition in people would be checked . be sure if once ye give up your selves to serve humours , as it will put you out of service to god , gal. . . so will your servitude be a sort of egyptian bondage ; and if ye sing not to every tune of theirs , the upshot will be as bad , as if ye had never gratified them at all . o be tender of their consciences , and wisely regulate their humours , not by servile compliance , but by happy conviction , or canny diversion . austerity and fondness are ( almost ) equally dangerous . and that ye may manage them rightly , not only seek gods good guiding , but also be denied to their applause , and dead to their censure . the sober and wise will approve you , when perhaps the peevish or proud kick at you . but it is enough if wisdom be justified of her children . thirteenthly , live daily in the prospect of further sufferings , and therefore unite so far as ye can ; lest the enemy finding you in a divided , distracted condition , prey easily upon you . doubtless your trial is not at an end . the furnace is heating sevenfold more . think not at every respite the bitterness of death is over , and the worst is past ; and so begin to pluck up your crist , and wax wanton and secure ; if ye do , it says a new storm is near , thes . . . psal . . , . the prelatick violence is indeed sad enough ; but what in comparison of the papistick , which is at your door ? and is dividing , biting , and devouring one another , fit providing for such a storm ? were it not more your wisdom and happiness to be hearkening to the apostles rule , phil. . , . to be composing rather than heightening differences ; and wherein ye agree , uniting , and forbearing one another in points of difference , till the lord decide the controversie ? otherwise the enemy may perhaps decide it with the broad sword . will ye be like archimedes , who while he was busie at his mathematical lines , the enemy entered the town , and killed him at his skeams ? or like the zealots in jerusalem , who while they wasted one another within the walls , vespasian and his army are ready without to invade and destroy both ? shall it be that dum aguntur partes , perit saguntum ? how weak are ye , and a ready prey to every beast of the field that pleaseth to devour , while thus disjointed and separate ! vis unita , fortior . if ever ye mind to stand effectually to the maintenance of the gospel , unite in time , it will be too late when the papist is got upon your back . fourteenthly , notwithstanding the severity of those in authority , unto you , be not ye tempted to slight duty unto them . let not their commanding unlawful things diminish your readiness of obedience in things lawful . remember they are the ordinance of god , and reverence them accordingly , ( rom. . , , . ) pray for them , ( tim. . , , , . ) else if ye cast them out of your prayers , god may justly leave them to be a sadder scourge unto you ; and ye may have little peace of conscience there-under , considering how little ye wrestle with god upon their behalf , that he would guide them right . ye might perhaps rule your kings heart , counsels and courses , were ye nehemiah-like , or ezra-like , high in court with god , and plying the throne of grace hard for him . be admonished withal not to speak evil of dignities , ( exod. . . act. . . ) despise not dominions , ( jud. v. . ) however they miscarry , lament ye that to god , yet speak not disrespectively of them . bear all due reverence to them , for the lords sake , as the fifth command obligeth ; and while they gall you , do not ye fret your selves to any reciprocal exorbitancy . let not sharp sufferings canker and imbitter you . learn to be subject and respective , not only to the good and gentle , but to the bad and afflictive , pet. . , , . obey none of their unlawful commands , yet submit ( not uncheerfully ) molesting of you , bearing the cross patiently , meekly , contentedly , pet. . , , , , , . and who knows what mollifying influence upon the heart of rulers , your meekness in suffering might have ? see prov. . . eccles . . . however , we are perswaded in the lord , your patient christian bearing of hardest things , will adorn the gospel , and in end be victory to your cause , come of persons and particular interests what will , see revel . . . rom. . , . often has the church and truth of god conquered more by sufferings , than by actings . sanguis martyrum , semen ecclesiae . crescit sub pondere virtus . but beyond many other things , beware of wronging your conscience and cause by being tempted by your sufferings to take up either ill principles , or ill practices against the magistrate . let none dare to think , as we hear some one or two begins to mussitate , that the magistrates miscarriages about the matters of religion , does forfault him of his right to govern , and so cadens titulo , is no more to be owned as king. a principle which all sound presbyterians abominate , as witness your confession of faith , cap. . § . . sure none but papizantes , or novaturientes , will own such unwarrantable principles . o let no severities byass your judgment unto error , nor tempt you to put forth your hand to iniquity ; if any unhappy one or other , by so doing , bring an odium upon an honest cause and party , whose soul hateth to espouse such things , they have much to answer to god for . and no less injustice will it be for any to lay the dotages of one or two bearing your name , to the charge of the whole . we heartily wish in so far as may be without sin , ( and farther we desire it not ) , that friends of reformation ( as you pretend highly to be ) would instead of irritating , stretch themselves to insinuate upon the magistrate ; and to set what value they lawfully may upon any thing of favour from him . whatever the rulers have done , or are , ( for which ye are to beg repentance and remission , and reformation to them ) , nevertheless they are the ordinance of god to be submitted unto , tendered and respected for conscience-sake . and though we are not to set limits to the soveraign grace , wisdom and power of god , who can deliver his people and interests when and by what means he pleases ; yet we are sure ye are in the way of your duty , when ye look to god for deliverance by their means , by the returning of judgment to righteousness ; being sensible that if he take not that method readily , he will plead both with rulers and people , which will rather increase spiritual plagues than diminish them . and in order to this , it is your duty and wisdom not to foster the magistrates jealousie that christs interests cannot rise but to their prejudice , which ( it is feared ) hath no small influence upon them ; but rather by all your deportment , to convince them , that they do well consist together , and that the promoting of christs interest , and shewing favour to the friends thereof , is the security and stability of the throne . dear brethren ! we doubt not but all these counsels are your study and care , yet pardon us to stir your pure minds , and let that of pet. . , . be apology for our presumption . and hoping god writeth his laws in your hearts , and after the hour and power of darkness is over , will recover you from your distempers , we shall therefore supercede to say any more , a word to wise men being enough . only in the last place we would speak a word or two to you the good people , who adhers to the truth , and labours to keep your garments clean of the publick pollutions . verily , your resolution , courage , constancy , and zeal for god , your affection to the purity and power of ordinances , your respect to an honest ministry , &c. are most commendable ; your adventuring to suffer hardest things , rather than stain your integrity in the meanest point ; your taking joyfully the spoiling of your goods , and tedious imprisonments , exile from your native land , and other severities , and all for the sake of christ ; is no small document of much good in you . pity it were such a choice generation of forward christians were not always rightly acted , or did in any thing stumble . yet alass ! who that looks with an impartial eye , may not see several things to be lamented in you ? to meet with , and amend which , suffer us , dear friends , to propose a few counsels unto you , in like manner . we hope ye shall not find them dissonant from the mind of christ , nor find cause to refuse to follow them , as causing to err . first of all , let not all your religion consist in publick matters . make sure your personal interest in god ; neglect not your own vineyard , your own souls case ; and werr not out of heart-exercise , and self-judging , &c. while ye are so much taken up about the publick ; but let personal godliness be happily joined with publick-mindedness ; else your selves may be cast-aways , after ye have done and suffered much for the name of christ , cor. . ult . cor. . , . particularly , let never your publick sufferings , or the righteousness of your cause ( as to man ) hide from you your personal failings and guiltinesses before god. neither pride your self in being strict and tender in publick matters , and mean time lax enough in your personal walk and moral duties . will ye not hear a conformist ? and yet make no conscience of lying , slandering your neighbour ? &c. will ye run after preaching ? and yet make little conscience to practise what ye hear ? o place not the sum of your religion in publick things , though true it be , they are much to be regarded . beware also of spending your time and spirits in debates , and vain janglings one with another , to be tentations one to another , raising your own and others passions and corruptions , instead of holy conference that might minister grace to the hearers . mind well the apostles caveats in tim. . , , , . & . . & . , , . tim. . , . thess . . . is it not observable , that the greatest sticklers in differences , the greatest disputers and contenders are usually the most distempered and barren hearted ? like the mountains of gilboa , high and hot indeed , but dry and unfruitful ; warm , but withered ; the unkindly , foolish , heat of division and debate , eating out the life , sap , and native heat of real religion , which evanisheth then into airy notions and litigious strivings , whereof no edification cometh . o let not religion fly up from your hearts to your heads , and evaporate into airy foams and forms , and turn vappid and insipid . be sure by questions and disputes , as well the power of religion is enervate , as the majesty of it infringed . the many disputes about religion , commonly overthrows the practice of it , which consisteth not in discourses , but in doing . it is easie for a formal , moth-eaten christian to hold up in the one , while he cannot bear up in the other , as seneca observed anent moral virtue , omnes disputare malunt , quam vivere , more prone are people to debate about the things of god , than to practise what is uncontroverted . if heaven could be obtained , and god pleased with jangling and debates , a prophane sophister should sooner have the one , and do the other , than a holy christian , who knows that it is not talking of , but walking in the ways of gods commandments , that is most acceptable in his sight . but to say no more , listen to the apostles oracle in cor. . . if any man seem to be contentious , we have no such custom , nor the churches of god. love perverse disputings who will , ( which ever corrupteth the mind ) , flee ye them as death , tim. . . ii. see , that while ye resist one evil , ye run not upon another ; and that fleeing one extremity , ye fall not upon another : is it not preposterous to be hot against prelacy and erastianism , ( sad ills indeed ! ) and yet friendly enough toward schism , error , and some other things repugnant to the word of god , and your covenants , as well as these ? let your zeal be universal and impartial against all evil , hating every false way ; and while ye shun scylla , dash not upon charybdis . iii. meddle not with every controversie that falls in among your worthy teachers . many a litigation may fall in among them , wherein ye are no further concern'd , than to sympathize and bewail . mourn for contestings , but do not interess your selves therein , to engage with them ; nor dip in disputable points ; too nice and high for your heads , and nothing edifying for your hearts ; much less foment the differences by factious siding , tale-bearing , or otherways begetting misunderstandings betwixt them , prov. . , . rather carry water to quench the flame , than blow at the spark . he or she that intermedleth beyond their sphere , will find it a snare , prov. . ▪ and they that sow discord , or blow the bellows , and stir up strife and alienation , will find it no blessed employment , prov. . , , , . whereas to the counsellors of peace is joy , matth. . . iv. usurp never to be teachers of your teachers , o● guides of guides . take not , like corah and his company , too much upon you , albeit ye are not to follow any man blindly in matters of religion , but humbly and seriously to examine all things ( like the noble bereans ) and hold fast that which is good , thess . . yet your teachers ye are to reverence and humbly learn from them , heb. . , . and have them so far in regard , as not rashly to oppone your judgment to theirs , much less to dictate and prescribe unto them , and not let them have your peace , unless they follow all your opinions . what intolerable arrogance is it , for weak heads of men or women ( whom god has set to learn , not to teach ) to leave the place of disciples , and presume unto the chair , to teach and give laws unto their governors and guides ? has he not said , mal. . . the priests lip● shall preserve knowledg , and men should seek the law at his mouth ; for he is the messenger of the lord of hosts ? but where hath he said that ministers are to be tutored and led by the people ? is it not an high degree of pride , for persons of your station and understanding , to arrogate to your selves to be wiser and judi●iouser than your best ministers , who make it their●aily work to read , meditate , and pray ; to stand 〈◊〉 the lords counsel , and learn his mind , and like watchmen stand on their watch-tower to know what ●f the night ? with whom is this urim and thummim ●ore than with his holy ones ? if ye find them fail in ●ny thing , admonish them gravely and discreetly : tell archippus your thoughts humbly and seriously , ●et presume not to impose your apprehensions on ●●m , nor to censure him shrewdly , if he do not forth●ith become of your opinion ; for ye are fallible , ●nd may be in the mistake . brethren ( says james , ●●ap . . v. . ) be not many masters . this spirit savours ●●●tle of sober-mindedness or self acquaintance ; suffer 〈◊〉 to tell you , that as for your sincerity , zeal , and ●●fectionateness , many of you are your teachers ●●y , and that it is not a little they have done and suf●●red for your sakes , and their bowels yern to have ●ore and more of christ formed in you ; so for un●●ilfulness in the word of righteousness , for being ●●ch babes in knowledge , and inability to scan in●●icacies and discern between things that differ , not 〈◊〉 few of you are their shame and grief ; and yet will ●e be their leaders ? ye know , it is the blindest who ●sually are the boldest and most confident , prov. ● . . be not therefore high-minded , but fear , and 〈◊〉 self-jealous : the holy ghosts rule is , be swift to ●●ar , slow to speak , slow to wrath , james . think ●●ey do but flatter you , who would puff you up with ●●lf-conceit , as if it were people who keep ministers ●●ght , and not ministers the people , and would teach ●ou to usurp over your leaders . v. how much soever constant adherers to the truth ye should be , yet be not therein turbulent and unruly ; else that may be to your profession a bane , and to your cause , as the dead fly : wherein ye differ from your pastors , or from one another , carry it humbly and soberly , with meekness of wisdom ; and be not seditious , untractable , or too peremptory . shall your ministers be put ( like moses , numb . . v. , , , . ) to sigh over you , and groan under you , and complain to god for your ticklishness , frowardness , and stiff-neckedness ? and that your reeling is like to undo all ? be not a snare and tentation to your ministers , but an encouragement and strengthning of their hands . be neither too facil , nor yet like the untamed heifer ; be neither coldrife , like laodicea , nor drive furiously like jehu . stupid dulnes● and unconcernedness ( upon the one hand ) and frothy light farraudness and fraziness ( upon the other ) are both to be shun'd ; and destroy not the true interest of the gospel by either , while ye pretend to b● the great pillars of its support . vi. take the law and the testimony for your alon● oracle in all things , isa . . . set not up your own imaginations , nor yet take any mans bare assertion● for the supreme judg of controversies , or rule o● right , and directory of your way . listen to ministers , and be not lightly suspicious of their judgment , but take nothing upon trust ; but see with your own eyes , as they acts . . well said , ambrose , de fid● ad gratian. lib. . cap. . noli argumento credas imperator & nostrae disputationi : scripturas interrogemus ▪ interrogemus apostolos , interrogemus ipsum christum ▪ prove all things by the word , and if any , were he an angel from heaven , speak not according thereunto , think there is no light in them . let nothing that wants a scripture-warrant , pass currant with you , nor condemn nothing which the oracles of god condemneth not : take never the visions of your own heart , nor the dictates of them , for your bible . gods word alone , and not mans , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is the unerring rule of faith and duty , rom. . . stick therefore close by it in all things , without declining to the right hand or the left , deut. . ult . if any thing be brought unto , and pressed upon you , without a real thus saith the lord , receive it not , thess . , . tremble to give an ear unto , or to be swayed by sophistical and unscriptural reasonings about any matter ; hold fast by the sure word of prophecy , and be safe , pet. . if ye state your selves into parties , as the corinthians did , how will ye avoid being puffed up for one against another ? and what one says , be taken as an oracle , and what another says , cryed down according to interest and affection ? cum res transit in affectum , perit judicium . beware of a wrong byass upon your affection , for that will byass and bribe your judgment , and forbear rash judgings and spurning at ministers , cor. . . censure only what the scripture censureth , and approve only what it approves ; else ye may soon take light for darkness , &c. vii . cleave close to your reformed religion and covenanted duties , against defections on all hands . consent never by word , write , or deed , to any thing contrary thereunto , specially what is expresly and plainly renounced thereby : yet take heed of captious glosses , and sinistrous applications of your covenant : it may be wrested , as some do the scriptures ; always stick to its true intent and native meaning ▪ faithfully ; and resolve to follow the lamb whithersoever he goes , through thick and thin ; and be rather arming your selves for suffering , than contending in the very fire . a common prison , or burning at one stake together , may perhaps be made to agree you ( as it did ridley and hooper ) who would not in your liberty accord , and serve the lord with one consent , without a jar , as was your duty to have done . viii . next to fidelity towards god , study to adorn your cause with loyalty to your king , in the lord , rom. . , . prov. . . pet. . . give unto god the things which are gods , and unto cesar the things which are cesars ; that hereby ye may stop the mouths of them that falsly speak evil of the presbyterian interest and party , as inimical to kings crowns , pet. . . did he not in the usurpers time find you the most faithful party to him of any ? and albeit ye be but ill requat , yet discourage not to follow your duty for the lords sake . we are apt to believe , if any other party in the nation had been so crushed and harassed by his power as ye , none would have born it better . let him still find that no discouragement will fret or tempt you from your duty , and that for conscience-sake , without by-ends ; yea , bear due allegiance to him , so far as may stand with your allegiance to the king of kings , and lord of lords . and who knows what a conviction this may produce in end ? sam. . , . testifying to him and all men , your cause is of god , which leads you to be so conscientious toward man ; and that you are the only fast and faithful friends to authority , who will cleave to it in a stormy day , out of the fear of god , when all its self-seeking friends will desert it , when their interest parts with it ; and that it is not humour , but conscience , which keeps you off from complying with his will in the matters of your god , wherein ye differ from him . ix . spend more time in praying together about what is amiss in the publick , than in empty talking about it , jer. . . remember you have somewhat else ado , than to be idle news-mongers . go spread ay your sad matters before the lord , as good nehemiah and hezekiah did ; table all your complaints in heaven . this would be both a present ease to your mind , and the compendious way to a blessed remedy . how much sooner might ye get a good account of matters , if ye did put them more in gods hand , who has the balm of gilead for such sores ? and it would sweeten your spirits and carriage thereunder . bleed with zion in all her bleedings . do not laugh while she sighs ; nor yet look idly on , and only talk ; but be her careful remembrancers before the throne ; especially let the divisions of reuben breed great thoughts of heart . let your pastors differences ( which are your great judgment and skaith ) be your sorrow , and lye heavy , heavy , upon your spirits . they who bear them lightly , or rejoice in them , what a deserted and distempered frame must they be in ? but would ye oftner meet and pray about these lamentable matters , who knows but ye might pray away your ministers differences , and cement your own hearts in greater christian union , by uniting and concentring in god ? and might pray home the ark out of captivity , and get the lord to arise and build zion as in the days of old ! x. be not easily tempted to cast at your ministers , of whose heart-honesty you have had sufficient demonstration . if once satan get you to begin a little to spurn at them , he will not cease tempting , and providence may justly let snares be rained on you , occasions of stumbling be afforded you , till ye turn quite off , and become wild . notorious it is , that peoples idolizing , inamouredness with some , and rooted prejudice at others , upon partialities and by-respects , are both a cause , foment , and consequent of woful divisions , cor. . , . and . , . o esteem your pastors highly in love for their works sake , and let not every petty difference cast you and them out : keep not distance with them , but go and lovingly confer with them anent what ye and they differ in : and if ye get not satisfaction , recommend the matter to god , but let love and peace stand intire notwithstanding . what is satans great engine , and consequently his design for marring your good of ministers ; but by stating prejudices in your minds at them ? shut your ears and hearts then to all charms that would suggest ill thoughts of your honest ministers , receive not lightly ill reports of them , spread perhaps industriously to make them odious , ( jer. . . ) to alienate you from them , as gal. . , . be not then too credulous , try e're ye trust , and admit no bad impressions of them , before ye have found that truly they deserve . to add no more , in the xi and last place , carefully avoid the sin of separation , as well as conformity , so called . is not schism one of your abjured ills , and contrary to the word of god , as well as prelacy ? o run not upon the one rock , while ye shun the other : guard well against complyance with the prelacy , and all erastianism too , ( which ye see by what is said , your ministers are free of ) but stand no less at distanee from dividing and separating , either from communion with your ministers , or with the congregations whereof ye are stated members . we hope we need not insist to convince you of the evil of schism , what a sinful , and what an hurtful ill it is ! nor when , and in what cases it is that separation is unlawful . read precious mr. rhetorfoord his piece against the separatists , entituled , peaceable plea , chap. . also the eminently , godly , and learned mr. durham , in his commentary upon the revelation , ch. . pag. , . and his treatise of scandal , part . chap. nor dare we think ye will contemn to peruse also some of the english presbyterian writers upon schism , who treat thereof judiciously , and with tenderness ; such as learned cartwright , holy hildersham , pious mr. bayn ; but namely mr. bradshaw his book of the unreasonableness of separation ; and mr. ball his tryal of the grounds tending to separation : as also mr. hales tractate of schism , brinsley his arraignment of schism , and mr. baxter in his christian directory , part . cap. . these and such others will inform you , in what cases separation is unlawful , how unwarrantable and weak many pleas for separation are , ( and yet perhaps more plausible and stronger-like than yours ) and what is the lamentable mischief of it . read them carefully , and ponder what of the mind of christ they hold forth , and see it no presbyterian , but a brownistical , and independent principle , to be either for rigid or moderater separation , where communion may be kept without either natural or moral bars in the way , as there are none such in your case . referring you therefore to such writings , we shall say the less , only this to the case in hand , that if any of you , through instability or seduction , be tempted to separate from , and shake off , your indulged ministers , so as merely upon account of their indulged liberty , you shall refuse to hear them , or communicate in the sacraments and other ordinances of god dispensed by them ; specially if your separation be usual and ordinary , total , and perhaps also out of contempt ; and withal not only negative , statedly withdrawing your self from them , but also positive , erecting altare contra altare , setting up in distinct and opposite societies by your selves , tempting others also perhaps to desert them , and that both by word and deed ; we dare be bold to affirm before the lord , and intreat you to believe it , that it will be your grievous sin , your fearful judgment , and a woful sign . . it will be your sin , being a voluntary , groundless , unjust , rash separation ; in regard you are not fugati , but fugitivi ; not driven away by any violent or sinful conditions of communion imposed upon you , ( as your fathers were when they separated from the church of rome ) but run away of your own accord , and that without any relevant cause , which may hold weight in the ballance of the sanctuary ; for joyning with them in church-communion , is neither upon sinful terms ( there being none at all required of you ) neither of it self doth it involve you in any sin , their ministry being lawful , valid , and without stain ( as hath been before evinced . ) what spot , we pray you , can you prove to be in their office , or its exercise , which may prove it unclean to you , or justifie your withdrawing and casting at them ? the usual alledgances are confuted and wiped off before , and we take no pleasure eandem cramben saepius recoquere & rep●nere , as some of yours , ad nauseam usque , do . consider what is said to the nine objections , and ye'll find the most material exceptions taken off , and both their office , their investiture with it , and their access to the exercise of it , justified and fairly acquit from all homologation of erastianism , or the sinful supremacy , &c. but beside , suppose there were some petty defects or irregularities in their entry to the exercise of their ministry ( which yet appeareth not from any reasons which hitherto we have seen ) yet ye should know , it is not every lighter fault of that nature , which will warrant separation ; but only such attrocious crimes as either destroys the essence of the ministry , and makes it null and void ( as your reverend mr. browne teacheth in the preface to his book against wolrogen , and excellent mr. bowels in his pastor evangelicus , lib. . cap. . ) for recte fieri is one thing , and ratum esse is another , and multa impediunt matrimonium contrahendum , quae non dirimunt contractum ; ) or else does so vitiate their ministry , as people cannot joyn therewith in its ministerial acts without real and native participating in the sin , in gods account , and in the construction of his holy law : otherwise if there be any pollution adherent to their ministry , which neither evacuates the essence thereof , nor so intrinsecally leprosieth it , but ye may communicate in its acts abstractly from and without touching the spot ; the sin resteth on the men themselves , and ye are not concerned therein farther than to lament it , but not to be skared and debarred by it from joyning in their ministerial administrations , they being to you clean , whatever they be to the men themselves . now plain and sure it is , neither of these evils has place in the case in hand ; nor can ye instruct the contrary . your bare alledgance or apprehension of homologation , accession , &c. will not serve the turn here . therefore since ye may communicate with them without sin , it will be sin in you to separate . o shake not off these lightsome guides whom god has set up and over you , by the warrantable instrumentality or means of men . leave it to the adversary to cast down these blessed stars ; let the philistines stop those wells god has opened for you ; but make not ye it your work . forsake not lightly the shepherds tents , lest ye meet with the wolf in your wandering . if these ministers should causelesly , or for trivial or tolerable faults , excommunicate you , would ye not judg it their sin ? and can ye be innocent , when as groundlesly , or for frivolous reasons ye cast them off , and in a sort depose them ? ( ) it will be as well your heavy judgment , as your sin . what a plague is it to be thus alienated from feeding besides the shepherds tents , or to refuse to go forth by the foot-steps of the flocks ( as christ directs ) to feed in the pastures where he feeds and makes his flocks rest at noon , cant. . , ? will ye not then be scorched , wax lean and wither ? and be in hazard to turn aside by the flocks of the companions ? do ye not then put your selves out from under his leading and feeding hand ? and tempt the lord to refuse to feed you ( except it be with wormwood ) , yea to break his staff of beauty , seeing ye break the staff of bands , zach. . , , , with . certainly , god is the god of order , not of confusion ; of peace , not of jarring : he dwelleth not in babel , but in salem . besides , is not schism and separation readily the fruit of other sins , such as pride , ( isa . . . ) formality , wantonness , waywardness , &c. and can that be but a plaguy fruit that groweth off so bitter a root ? moreover , does it not ( as it were ) divide christ and his heritage into pieces ? afflicts his church and servants ? yea , and tendeth to destroy religion and his kingdom ? and demolish them into a ruinous heap ? and to say no more , where ever this bitter root of rigid separation does spring up , does it not defile many ? specially in leading unto error , if not profanity ? for as of old it was observed , omne schisma desinit in haeresin : so ames . cas . consc . de shism . so also jerom. comment . on tit. says , every schism leads to error , to patrocinate its separation . in a word , it is a mother-evil , an inlet to an ocean of other evils . ( ) it will be an evil sign , both diagnostick and prognostick ; will it not argue you to be much deserted of god , and left to your selves ? and evidence much simplicity and weakness , if not instability and giddiness , and spiritual distemper , jud. v. , . moreover , what a black omen will it be of gods forsaking the land , and being about to give a bill of divorce to your church ? is it not as well a fatal-like as an unkindly thing , to see the sheep kicking at , pushing away , or running from their shepherds ? certainly it is one of the blackest clouds hangs over you , of malignat influence for the present , and ( unless it be removed ) of dangerous consequence for the future , mal. . ult . upon all which , and the like considerations , we would obtest , yea charge you in the name of the lord jesus christ , and by your appearing before him to beware of schismatizing , cor. . . and . . heb. . . and as ye would hold off splitting on this rock , we make bold to present you with , and to intreat you to observe these rules , besides what are mentioned in the preceeding advices . ( ) take heed of lesser differences : small wedges make way for great ones ; petty differences ( slighted ) grow up to stated divisions , and divisions to schism and separation . therefore ( as much as in you lyeth ) be precise to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , and crush the cockatrice in the egg , lest a little leaven neglected , leaven at length the whole lump . ( ) affect not , be not too much taken with novelties and new guises in religion . itch not after singularities , nor be dazled with the busked beauty of niceties . truth and piety is lovely in every dress , no less in her old coat than a new . nothing more leads to separation than new fangleness . ( ) be tender either of giving , or taking offence . be not easily stumbled , mat. . . study charity , and be apt to construct doubtful matters in your ministers , into the best part . ( ) labour to see god in and with them . and if god be with them , christ speaking in them , how will ye dare to spurn at them , and kick them off ? if ever ye heard them ordinarily , can ye deny but ye have seen it evident , that god was in them , and with them ? how oft has some of you spoken of a blessedness in their ministry , before ye were put upon your dividing notions , and took up prejudices at them ? have ye not found a divine presence and assistance with them , which made you cry in your hearts , as joh. . . come see a man that has told me all things , &c. and thereupon been made to honour them in your hearts , and say as cor. . . of a truth god is in them ? have you not oft been made to say , the indulged ministers preached best to souls cases , though ye said the field-preachers spoke best to the times ? now , how unchristian is it to depart from their ministry , with which christ continues yet his presence ? have you any warrant to leave them before christ leave them ? will ye be stricter and holier than he ? will ye cast off whom the lord casts not off ? when jacob found god in bethel , he set up his pillar there . ( ) beware of having the persons of men in admiration , either for gifts or grace , or because of advantage , jud. v. . this was it which occasioned the schisms in the church of corinth , admiring their teachers , they were puffed up for one against another , and one said , i am of paul , another , i of apollo , others , i of cephas , &c. even according as their humour and liking led them ? take heed of being taken in the same snare . all flesh is grass , none infallible , and therefore none to be doted upon . ne judicemus ex personis fidem , sed ex fide personas , said tertullian . let not your eyes be so dazled with whatever eminency of parts or graces ye apprehend to be in any , as to set up their bare word for your oracle , or their example for your rule . this was it which drew many of the jews ( and barnabas among the rest ) into a sinful separation , ( gal. . , . ) because they saw peter a leading man , a prime and eminent apostle , going that way before them . and yet that pillar of the church did therein halt , and walked not with a straight foot , and was to be blamed ; and consequently to be not imitated , but shun'd . it is dangerous to shape our course by anothers compass ; as many a ship has been lost and run on banks by following their admirals lanthorn . give eminent and godly men their due respect , but put them not in gods room . it is divine rule , not humane example , we are to walk by . follow no man further than he follows christ , cor. . . ( ) take heed of pretending to greater purity and strictness about church-communion , than the word of god commends , or the examples of christ , of the apostles , and the primitive church commends . nor be so extreamly rigid as not to bear with things they have tolerated . be not over-righteous , lest by over-straining ye both sin and do harm ; yea , and plainly bewray it to be faction or humour , not conscience , which acteth you . calvin c●ntra anabaptistas , act. . says , cum sub specie studii perfectionis imperfectionem nullam tolerare possumus , tunc diabolum nos tume facere superbiâ , & hypocrisi se ducere , moneamur . suppose your ministers were guilty ( as they are not ) of most of things ye lay to their charge ; yet what an unparalleld , unheard of , unexamplified separation is yours from them as to any warrantable precedent ? ( ) make nothing necessary to the unity of the church , or to the communion of pastors and people , but what god has made necessary in his word , or directed you to make . put not every new opinion into your creed , nor every new course be added to the decalogue ; as if ye were to impose them upon , or require them of others , as such substantial articles of faith , or necessary duties , that ye must renounce all religious fellowship with them who are not of that way , act. . . there is not a greater divider or separater than this tantizing or screwing up of debateable points , wherein god has left us so much latitude , as not to make either the one or the other part of the controversie , a necessary condition of church-communion . o take no burden of strictness on you , that is not of his imposing , rev. . , . ( ) enslave not your selves to any person or party , so as to be over-desirous to please them , or over-fearful of their censures . is it not servile man-pleasing , and cowardize to do so ? and leads many to sinful compliance with dividing courses ? when therefore any fervent self-conceited person or people would carry all down by their censoriousness and passions , it is high time for pastors , and the aged , graver , and maturer sort of christians , openly to rebuke them , to appear against them , and stand their ground ( as paul did , gal. . . ) and not to comply with the misguided sort ( though well-meaning ) , and their preposterous zeal , that by connivance or compliance ye may escape their censures and reproaches . he that thus saveth his name , shall lose it , and perhaps on a worse account . be not therefore cowed to silence or amen to their way , for fear of the scourge of tongues . be valiant for the truth , and against such ills ; else fainting will feed their humour , and invite them to be more insolent . put on authority and gospel-austerity to check their petulancy and untowardliness . ( ) as well should ye beware of real ills , so be not scarred from good by the name of evil . what a trick has some of stigmatizing things with odious and terrifying names , thereby to boggle simple and well-meaning people ? if the ratling and canting names of erastianism , supremacy , homologate , &c. falsly applied , serve to fright you from indulged ministers , your skittishness is to be lamented . and it may be said of them as of old the apologist said of christianity , in like manner branded and bogled at , tolle nomen criminis , & nihil erit criminis , nisi nomen . ( ) beware of suffering prejudice or fancy to be to you for reason or religion , or to raise in your minds unjustifiable distasters at your pastors . separation is a thing not to be lightly ventured upon . and yet what are oft-times peoples exceptions against union with , and pleas for dividing from their ministers , but light and frivolous , when weighed in the ballance of the sanctuary ? yea , suppose ye seem to have scripture to plead , what if you be mistaken of the sense or application , or wrest the same ? be not so arrogant as to set up your apprehensions thereof for infallible oracles . humble , sober , self-jealous folk , get usually most of the mind of god , psal . . . whereas the confident are most readily in the mistake , prov. . , . ( ) charge not upon your selves unwarrantedly other mens faults , but look to your own ways and duties . labour to understand distinctly what it may be on your part , that may constitute you a partaker in the sins of your ministers ( if any be ) , lest through ignorance hereof , ye be led to take improper courses , & unlawful midv's for avoiding communion with their ( imagined ) guilt , and so run upon real guilt of your own in seeking to shun accession to theirs . suppose there be some faults in your ministers personal actings , or in their way of entry to their ministry , or in their ministerial administrations ( such as want of due freedom against the evils of the time , &c. ) yet know ye will hardly find a ground in scripture for it , that your simple hearing them , and not shaking off their ministry , doth natively render you adopters of their sin . it is not enough that you and others think so , unless the lord construct it so , and declare it so by the rules of his word . now search all the rules of the word , wherein he declareth how men communicate in others sins , and ye will find none of them quadrate with this case . are their ( alledged ) failings meerly personal ? such as neglect of duty to their brethren , &c. these ( ye know ) doth not vitiate their ministry , nor have ye any communion therewith , in communicating in their ministry ; for as your own divines teach , personal faults rest on the person , and doth not pollute the office. or , are their faults some lesser failing in the discharge of their ministry ? such as not being so free and full in preaching and witnessing against the sins of the time , &c. do not these also sist upon themselves ? and not render it unlawful for you to hear them preach the gospel to good purpose ? is the ministers defect the hearers sin ? or , is it not lawful to own the minister who cometh not up all the length we would , in testifying against publick corruptions , but thorough pusillanimity faints , and falls short ? what if you require more than is really expedient ? or , what scripture requireth you to separate from one of that deficiency ? to his own master he standeth or falleth ; you will not be holden answerable to god for it , meerly for your joining in the ordinances dispensed by him , though with that want , especially if ye admonish him of his short-coming , col. . . do ye not read how defective many of the angels in the churches of asia were , in fidelity against sins of the time ? yet not a word from our lord to people to desert them therefore , rev. , & chap. or , are their ( alledged ) faults in the way of their coming to the publick , free exercise of their ministry ? such as neglect of a testimony against the erastian usurpations of the time , which some judg to involve them in a constructive compliance therewith , &c. yet is not that only their own personal guilt ? but defileth not their ministry to you . nor does your joining with their ministry involve you in the guilt of their ( supposed ) irregularities or homologations committed in coming to the peaceable exercise of it by the indulgence . for your participating in the acts of their ministry does not terminate upon , intermedle with , or natively imply a joining with , or approving of these faults ( which are altogether extrinsick and accidental to their ministry and its exercise , and rests upon their persons alone ) , for ye hear and join with them simply as ministers , and your ministers being called by you ; but not as such and such ministers reduplicatively under such and such formalities and considerations as ye apprehend to be faulty in them , ( even as these who mat. . , . heard them that sat in moses chair , whom all know to have entered with many irregularities , nevertheless did not hear them under such notions and respects , but simply as moses successors in the chair ) ; and therefore your deed involveth you not in any accession unto , or participation in their ( pretended ) sin ; not inferring or importing ( in gods construction , signified in the rules of the word ) your consent unto , or allowance and approbation of that their sin . it is no countenancing of them in their ( alledged ) sin , but in their ministry simply , which ye cannot deny to be sound and lawful , abstractly considered from these supposed disorders or defects in their coming by the free exercise thereof with you . ye communicate only with their function , in its substance ( which is the ordinance of christ ) not in the naevi adnascentes , or sinful circumstances . and the more evident yet is the needlesness of your separating in this case , if ye testifie to them your dissatisfaction with , and disowning of the ( apprehended ) transgressions in their way of coming by the licensed exercise of their ministry ; which draweth a line of separation between you and those ills ; and consequently stateth you guiltless , albeit still ye imbrace the benefit of their ministry in it self . neither is this , as ye say , protestatio facto contraria , the protestation and deed being not ad idem , not relating to the same thing , and consequently doth not cross and destroy one another . doubtless if bare hearing and joining with a ministry , having such naevos , blemishes , adhering thereunto , doth make the people homologaters of , and communicaters in these defilements , our blessed lord would never have insinuate ( in mat. . , . ) his approbation of partaking in such a ministry . if further ye scruple and think your hearing the indulged ministers may harden them in their ( deemed ) sin , which to be accessary unto thereby , ye judg would be your sin . we answer , doth the spotless and holy lords making his sun to shine , and rain to fall as well upon the unjust as the just , tend to harden them ? what more doth your hearing tend ( natively ) to harden and encourage those ministers ? we grant it may be abused thereunto ( were they in a course of sin as ye suppose ) yet that is but accidental , not natural to your deed , and therefore you are innocent ; especially your deed being otherwise necessary . surely it makes you no more guilty of their hardening ( in case they harden themselves upon it ) nor subjects loyalty and duty to their prince ( who having a righteous title , yet hath used some indirect means to attain possession of the crown and government ) does render them guilty of hardening him in impenitency for these evil arts used for getting into the throne . ought ye not to remember that whatever forbearance of matters of liberty and indifferency ( such as intimate personal unnecessary converse , or the like ) another mans abuse thereof calleth you unto ; yet necessary and weighty duties ( such as your keeping church-communion is , heb. . . ) may not , must not , be omitted upon such a score , of an accidental emergency ; for as evil is not to be done that good may come of it ; so , nor duty to be left undone , for avoiding such an accidental abuse thereof ; else it were in the power of others by their stumbling upon , and abusing of our doing of duties , might vacate us from them all , and so make all the commandments of god of non-effect ; yea , the scripture it self should be ( on that reason ) laid by , because many wrest it to their own destruction . if they will harden themselves upon your not separating , your following of duty is meerly the innocent object and occasion thereof ; themselves only are the transgressors , because you are purely passive , they active in the case . thus ye see , that supposing there were such real faults in your ministers access to the publick undisturbed exercise of their ministry as ye talk of , ( whereas in sober and unprejudiced search you will find none ) , albeit these should call you to mourn to god for them , and endeavour their conviction and reformation , yet not to separation . since without accession to these faults , ye may join with the men and their gospel-administrations ; lugendum & ferendum est , quod mederi nequit ▪ says judicious and holy calvin . be ye therefore monitores & correctores ( if ye can ) non desertores . but blessed be god there is in truth so far as we can see , no just ground of stumbling at them ; so , at least as to scare you from their shepherd-tents . and would some lay aside prejudice , passion , self-interest , &c. and not be over righteous , nor over wise , ( which the wise solomon dehorteth from in eccl. . . ) nor ( by scrupulosity or censoriousness ) make more sins than ever god by his law hath made ; nor seek a knot in a rush ( thorough niceness , or timorousness , or captiousness ) ; we perswade our selves your controversies would soon be at an end , and your terrible convulsion-fits of dividings and separating , no more overtake you . but to draw to a close ▪ we shall say no more , nor had we said so much , had not the urgency of your case compelled us . only this we add , that having thus far presumed upon your patience and candor to speak our mind freely concerning your case and carriage , out of christian compassion to your distractions and distempers , and affectionate zeal to your recovery , we humbly crave you pardon for our freedom : intreating you in the lord to consider what is said , ●t agnoscere quod dei est , & ignoscere quod bominis est . himself give understanding in all things , which concern his honour , the good of his poor distressed church and people , and your own duty and peace . and finally , brethren , we bid you farewell ; wishing the prince of peace , after ye have suffered a while , to stablish and settle you . and to him tha● is able to heal your breaches , to keep you from falling , and to recover the fallen , and present you spotless before the father , be glory . and if in any thing we can serve your edification and peace , we willingly subscribe our selves . your affectionate friends and servants in christ . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e hoc ithacus velit , & magno mercentur atridae . which they did exhibit , not only de futuro , as when they call an expectant ; but de presenti . a second letter concerning toleration locke, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a second letter concerning toleration locke, john, - . proast, jonas. argument of the letter concerning toleration. [ ], p. printed for awnsham and john churchill ..., london : . signed: philanthropus. written by john locke in reply to jonas proast's the argument of the letter concerning toleration. cf. blc. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - apex covantage rekeyed and resubmitted - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a second letter concerning toleration . licensed , june . . london : printed for awnsham and john churchill , at the black swan in ave-mary-lane , near pater-noster-row . m dc xc . to the author of the argument of the letter concerning toleraration , briefly considered and answered . sir , you will pardon me if i take the same liberty with you , that you have done with the author of the letter concerning toleration ; to consider your arguments , and endeavour to shew you the mistakes of them . for since you have so plainly yeilded up the question to him , and do own that the severities he would disswàde christians from , are utterly unapt , and improper to bring men to imbrace that truth which must save them ; i am not without some hopes to prevail with you , to do that your self , which you say is the only justifiable aim of men differing about religion , even in the use of the severest methods : viz. carefully and impartially to weigh the whole matter , and thereby to remove that prejudice which makes you yet favour some remains of persecution : promising my self that so ingenious a person will either be convinced by the truth which appears so very clear and evident to me ; or else confess , that , were either you or i in authority , we should very unreasonably and very unjustly use any force upon the other which differ'd from him , upon any pretence of want of examination . and if force be not to be used in your case or mine , because unreasonable , or unjust ; you will , i hope , think fit that it should be forborn in all others , where it will be equally unjust and unreasonable ; as i doubt not but to make it appear it will unavoidably be , where ever you will go about to punish men for want of consideration . for the true way to try such speculations as these , is to see how they will prove when they are reduc'd into practice . the first thing you seem startled at , in the author's letter , is the largeness of the toleration he proposes : and you think it strange that he would not have so much as a pagan , mahumetan , or jew , excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth , because of his religion . we pray every day for their conversion , and i think it our duty so to do : but it will , i fear , hardly be believed that we pray in earnest , if we exclude them from the other ordinary and probable means of conversion ; either by driving them from , or persecuting them when they are amongst us . force , you allow , is improper to convert men to any religion . toleration is but the removing that force . so that why those should not be tolerated as well as others , if you wish their conversion , i do not see . but you say , it seems hard to conceive how the author of that letter should think to do any service to religion in general , or to the christian religion , by recommending and perswading such a toleration . for how much soever it may tend to the advancement of trade and commerce , ( which some seem to place above all other considerations ) i see no reason , from any experiment that has been made , to expect that true religion would be a gainer by it ; that it would be either the better preserved , the more widely propagated , or rendred any whit the more fruitful in the lives of its professors by it . before i come to your doubt it self , whether true religion would be a gainer by such a toleration ; give me leave to take notice , that if , by other considerations , you mean any thing but religion , your parenthesis is wholly besides the matter ; and that if you do not know that the author of the letter places the advancement of trade above religion , your insinuation is very uncharitable . but i go on . you see no reason , you say , from any experiment that has been made , to expect that true religion would be a gainer by it . true religion and christian religion are , i suppose , to you and me , the same thing . but of this you have an experiment in its first appearance in the world , and several hundreds of years after . it was then better preserv'd , more widely propagated ( in proportion ) and render'd more fruitful in the lives of its professors , than ever since ; tho then jews and pagans were tolerated , and more than tolerated , by the governments of those places where it grew up . i hope you do not imagine the christian religion has lost a●… of its first beauty , force , or reasonableness , by having been ●…most years in the world ; that you should fear it should be less able now to shift for it self , without the help of force . i doubt not but you look upon it still to be the po●…er and wisdom of god for our salvation ; and therefore cannot suspect it less capable to prevail now , by its own truth and light , than it did in the first ages of the church , when poor contemptible men , without authority , or the countenance of authority , had alone the care of it . this , as i take it , has been made use of by christians generally , and by some of our church in particular , as an argument for the truth of the christian religion ; that it grew and spread , and prevailed , without any aid from force , or the assistance of the powers in being . and if it be a mark of the true religion , that it will prevail by its own light and strength ; ( but that false religions will not , but have need of force and foreign helps to support them ) nothing certainly can be more for the advantage of true religion , than to take away compulsion every where . and therefore it is no more hard to conceive how the author of the letter should think to do service to religion in general , or to the christian religion , than it is hard to conceive that he should think there is a true religion , and that the christian religion is it ; which its professors have always own'd not to need force , and have urged that as a good argument to prove the truth of it . the inventions of men in religion need the force and helps of men to support them . a religion that is of god wants not the assistance of human authority to make it prevail . i guess , when this dropp'd from you , you had narrow'd your thoughts to your own age and country : but if you will enlarge them a little beyond the consines of england , i do not doubt but you will easily imagine that if in italy , spain , portugal , &c. the inquisition ; and in france their dragooning ; and in other parts those severities that are used to keep or force men to the national religion , were taken away ; and instead thereof the toleration propos'd by the author were set up , the true religion , would be a gainer by it . the author of the letter says , truth will do well enough , if she were once left to shift for her self . she seldom hath received , and he fears never will receive much assistance from the power of great men , to whom she is but rarely known , and more rarely welcome . errors indeed prevail , by the assistance of foreign and borrowed succours . truth makes way into our vnderstanding by her own light , and is but the weaker for any borrowed force that violence can add to her . these words of his ( how hard soever they may seem to you ) may help you to conceive how he should think to do service to true religion , by recommending and perswading such a toleration as he proposed . and now , pray tell me your self , whether you do not think true religion would be a gainer by it , if such a toleration establish'd there , would permit the doctrine of the church of england to be freely preached , and its worship set up , in any popish , mahumetan , or pagan country ? if you do not , you have a very ill opinion of the religion of the church of england , and must own that it can only be propagated and supported by force . if you think it would gain in those countries , by such a toleration , you are then of the author's mind , and do not find it so hard to conceive how the recommending such a toleration might do service to that which you think true religion . but if you allow such a toleration useful to truth in other countries , you must find something very peculiar in the air , that must make it less useful to truth in england . and 't will savour of much partiality , and be too absurd , i fear , for you to own , that toleration will be advantagious to true religion all the world over , except only in this island ; though , i much suspect , this , as absurd as it is , lies at the bottom ; and you build all you say upon this lurking supposition , that the national religion now in england , back'd by the publick authority of the law , is the only true religion , and therefore no other is to be tolerated . which being a supposition equally unavoidable , and equally just , in other countries , ( unless we can imagine that every where but in england men believe what at the same time they think to be a lie ) will in other places exclude toleration , and thereby hinder truth from the means of propagating it self . what the fruits of toleration are , which in the next words you complain do remain still among us , and which you say give no encouragement to hope for any advantages from it ; what fruits , i say , these are , or whether they are owing to the want or wideness of toleration among us , we shall then be able to judg , when you tell us what they are . in the mean time , i will boldly say , that if the magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against vice , in whomsoever it is found ; and leave men to their own consciences , in their articles of faith , and ways of worship ; true religion will be spread wider , and be more fruitful in the lives of its professors , than ever hitherto it has been , by the imposition of creeds and ceremonies . you tell us , that no man can fail of sinding the way of salvation , who seeks it as he ought . i wonder you had not taken notice , in the places you quote for this , how we are directed there to the right way of seeking . the words ( john vii . . ) are ; if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god. and , psalm xxv . , , . which are also quoted by you , tell us , the meek will he guide in judgment , and the meek will he teach his way . what man is he that feareth the lord , him shall he teach in the way that he shall chuse . the secret of the lord is with them that fear him , and he will shew them his covenant . so that these places , if they prove what you cite them for , that no man can fail of finding the way of salvation , who seeks it as he ought ; they do also prove that a good life is the only way to seek as we ought ; and that therefore the ma istrates , if they would put men upon seeking the way of salvation as they ought , should , by their laws and penalties , force them to a good life ; a good conversation being the readiest and surest way to a right understanding . punishments and severities thus apply'd , we are sure , are both practicable , just , and useful . how punishments will prove in the way you contend for , we shall see when we come to consider it . having given us these broad marks of your good-will to toleration , you tell us , 't is not your design to argue against it , but only to enquire what our author offers for the proof of his assertion . and then you give us this scheme of his argument . . there is but one way of salvation , or but one true religion . . no man can be saved by this religion , who does not believe it to be the true religion . . this belief is to be wrought in men by reason and argument , not by outward force and compulsion . . therefore all such force is utterly of no use for the promoting true religion , and the salvation of souls . . and therefore no body can have any right to use any force or compulsion , for the bringing men to the true religion . and you tell us , the whole strength of what that letter urged for the purpose of it , lies in this argument ; which i think you have no more reason to say , than if you should tell us , that only one beam of a house had any strength in it , when there are several others that would support the building , were that gone . the purpose of the letter is plainly to desend toleration , exempt from all force ; especially civil force , or the force of the magistrate . now if it be a true consequence , that men must be tolerated , if magistrates have no commission or authority to punish them for matters of religion ; then the only strength of that letter lies not in the unfitness of force to convince mens vnderstanding . vid. let. p. . again ; if it be true that magistrates being as liable to error as the rest of mankind , their using of force in matters of religion , would not at all advance the salvation of mankind , ( allowing that even force could work upon them , and magistrates had authority to use it in religion ) then the argument you mention is not the only one , in that letter , of strength to prove the necessity of toleration . v. let. p. . for the argument of the unsitness of force to convince mens minds being quite taken away , either of the other would be a strong proof for toleration . but let us consider the argument as you have put it . the two first propositions , you say , you agree to . as to the third , you grant that force is very improper to be used to induce the mind to assent to any truth . but yet you deny that force is utterly useless for the promoting true religion , and the salvation of mens souls ; which you call the author's th proposition : but indeed that is not the author's th proposition , or any proposition of his , to be sound in the pages you quote , or any where else in the whole letter , either in those terms , or in the sense you take it . in the th page , which you quote , the author is shewing that the magistrate has no power , that is not right , to make use of force in matters of religion , for the salvation of mens souls . and the reason he gives for it there , is , because force has no efficacy , to convince mens minds ; and that without a full perswasion of the mind , the profession of the true religion it self is not acceptable to god. vpon this ground , says he , i affirm that the magistrate's power extends not to the establishing any articles of faith , or forms of worship , by the force of his laws . for laws are of no force at all without penalties ; and penalties in this case are absolutely impertinent , because they are not proper to convince the mind . and so again , pag. . which is the other place you quote , the author says ; what soever may be doubted in religion , yet this at least is certain ; that no religion which i believe not to be true , can be either true , or profitable unto me . in vain therefore do princes compel their subjects to come into their church-communion , under the pretence of saving their souls . and more to this purpose . but in neither of those passages , nor any where else , that i remember , does the author say that it is impossible that force should any way , at any time , upon any person , by any accident , be useful towards the promoting of true religion , and the salvation of souls ; for that is it which you mean by utterly of no use . he does not deny that there is any thing which god in his goodness does not , or may not , sometimes , graciously make use of , towards the salvation of mens souls ( as our saviour did of clay and spittle to cure blindness ) and that so , force also may be sometimes useful . but that which he denies , and you grant , is that force has any proper efficacy to enlighten the understanding , or produce belief . and from thence he infers , that therefore the magistrate cannot lawfully compel men in matters of religion . this is what the author says , and what i imagine will always hold true , whatever you or any one can say or think to the contrary . that which you say is , force indirectly and at a distance may do some service . what you mean by doing service at a distance , towards the bringing men to salvation , or to imbrace the truth , i confess i do not understand ; unless perhaps it be what others , in propriety of speech , call by accident . but be it what it will , it is such a service as cannot be ascribed to the direct and proper efficacy of force . and so , say you , force , indirectly , and at a distance , may do some service . i grant it : make your best of it . what do you conclude from thence , to your purpose ? that therefore the magistrate may make use of it ? that i deny . that such an indirect , and at a distance vsefulness , will authorize the civil power in the use of it , that will never be prov'd . loss of estate and dignities may make a proud man humble : sufferings and imprisonment may make a wild and debauched man sober : and fo these things may indirectly , and at a distance , be serviceable towards the salvation of mens souls . i doubt not but god has made some , or all of these , the occasions of good to many men. but will you therefore infer , that the magistrate may take away a man's honour , or estate , or liberty , for the salvation of his soul ; or torment him in this , that he may be happy in the other world ? what is otherwise unlawful in it self ( as it certainly is to punish a man without a fault ) can never be made lawful by some good that , indirectly and at a distance , or if you please , indirectly and by accident , may follow from it . running a man through may save his life , as it has done by chance , opening a lurking imposthume . but will you say therefore that this is lawful , justifiable chirurgery ? the gallies , 't is like , might reduce many a vain , loose protestant , to repentance , sobriety of thought , and a true sense of religion : and the torments they suffer'd in the late persecution , might make several consider the pains of hell , and put a due estimate of vanity and contempt on all things of this world. but will you say , because those punishments might , indirectly and at a distance , serve to the salvation of mens souls , that therefore the king of france had right and authority to make use of them ? if your indirect and at a distance serviceableness may authorize the magistrate to use force in religion , all the cruelties used by the heathens against christians , by papists against protestants , and all the persecuting of christians one amongst another , are all justifiable . but what if i should tell you now of other effects , contrary effects , that punishments in matters of religion may produce ; and so may serve to keep men from the truth and from salvation ? what then will become of your indirect , and at a distance vsefulness ? for in all pleas for any thing because of its usefulness , it is not enough to say as you do ( and is the utmost that can be said for it ) that it may be serviceable : but it must be considered not only what it may , but what it is likely to produce : and the greater good or harm like to come from it , ought to determine of the use of it . to shew you what effects one may expect from force , of what usefulness it is to bring men to imbrace the truth , be pleas'd to read what you your self have writ . i cannot but remark , say you , that these methods ( viz. depriving men of their estates , corporal punishments , starving and tormenting them in prisons , and in the end even taking away their lives , to make them christians ) are so very improper in respect to the design of them , that they usually produce the quite contrary effect . for whereas all the use which force can have for the advancing true religion , and the salvation of souls , is ( as has already been shewed ) by disposing men to submit to instruction , and to give a fair hearing to the reasons which are offer'd for the enlightning their minds and discovering the truth to them ; these cruelties have the misfortune to be commonly look'd upon as so just a prejudice against any religion that uses them , as makes it needless to look any further into it ; and to tempt men to reject it , as both false and detestable , without ever vouchsafing to consider the rational grounds and motives of it . this effect they seldom fail to work upon the sufferers of them . and as to the spectators , if they be not beforehand well instructed in those grounds and motives , they will be much tempted likewise , not only to entertain the same opinion of such a religion , but withal to judg much more favourably of that of the sufferers ; who , they will be apt to think , would not expose themselves to such extremities , which they might avoid by compliance , if they were not throughly satisfied of the justice of their cause . here then you allow that taking away mens estates or liberty , and corporal punishments , are apt to drive away both sufferers and spectators , from the religion that makes use of them , rather than to it . and so these you renounce . now if you give up punishments of a man , in his person , liberty , and estate , i think we need not stand with you , for any other punishments may be made use of . but , by what follows , it seems you shelter your self under the name of severities . for moderate punishments , as you call them in another place , you think may be serviceable ; indirectly , and at a distance serviceable , to bring men to the truth . and i say , any sort of punishments disproportioned to the offence , or where there is no fault at all , will always be severity , unjustifiable severity , and will be thought so by the sufferers and by-standers ; and so will usually produce the effects you have mentioned , contrary to the design they are used for . not to profess the national faith , whilst one believes it not to be true ; not to enter into church-communion with the magistrate , as long as one judges the doctrine there professed to be erroneous , or the worship not such as god has either prescribed , or will accept ; this you allow , and all the world with you must allow , not to be a fault . but yet you would have men punished for not being of the national religion ; that is , as you your self confess , for no fault at all . whether this be not severity , nay so open and avow'd injustice , that it will give men a just prejudice against the religion that uses it , and produce all those ill effects you there mention , i leave you to consider . so that the name of severities in opposition to the moderate punishments ' you speak for , can do you no service at all . for where there is no fault , there can be no moderate punishment : all punishment is immoderate , where there is no fault to be punished . but of your moderate punishment we shall have occasion to speak more in another place . it suffices here to have shewn , that , whatever punishments you use , they are as likely to drive men from the religion that uses them , as to bring them to the truth ; and much more likely ; as we shall see before we have done : and so , by your own confession , they are not to be used . one thing in this passage of the author , it seems , appears absurd to you ; that he should say , that to take away mens lives , to make them christians , was but an ill way of expressing a design of their salvation . i grant there is great absurdity some where in the case . but it is in the practice of those who , persecuting men under a pretence of bringing them to salvation , suffer the temper of their good-will to betray it self , in taking away their lives . and whatever absurdities there be in this way of proceeding , there is none in the author's way of expressing it ; as you would more plainly have seen , if you had looked into the latin original , where the words are vita denique ipsâ privant , ut fideles , ut salvi siant ( pag. . ) which tho more literally , might be thus render'd , to bring them to the faith and to salvation ; yet the translator is not to be blamed , if he chose to express the sense of the author , in words that very lively represented the extream absurdity they are guilty of , who under pretence of zeal for the salvation of souls , proceed to the taking away their lives . an example whereof we have in a neighbouring country , where the prince declares he will have all his dissenting subjects sav'd , and pursuant thereunto has taken away the lives of many of them . for thither at last persecution must come : as i fear , notwithstanding your talk of moderate punishments , you your self intimate in these words ; not that i think the sword is to be used in this business , ( as i have sufficiently declared already ) but because all coactive power resolves at last into the sword ; since all ( i do not say , that will not be reformed in this matter by lesser penalties , but ) that refuse to submit to lesser penalties , must at last fall under the stroke of it . in which words , if you mean any thing to the busines●… in hand , you seem to have a reserve for greater punishments , when lesser are not sufficient to bring men to be convinced . but let that pass . you say , if force be us●…d , not instead of reason and arguments , that is , not to convince by its own proper efficacy , which it cannot do , &c. i think those who make laws , and use force , to bring men to church-conformity in religion , seek only the compliance , but concern themselves not for the conviction of those they punish ; and so never use force to convince . for , pray tell me ; when any dissenter conforms , and enters into the church-communion , is he ever examined to see whether he does it upon reason , and conviction , and such grounds as would become a christian concern'd for religion ? if persecution ( as is pretended ) were for the salvation of mens souls , this would be done ; and men not driven to take the sacrament to keep their places , or to obtain licenses to sell ale , ( for so low have these holy things been prostituted ) who perhaps knew nothing of its institution ; and considered no other use of it but the securing some poor secular advantage , which without taking of it they should have lost . so that this exception of yours , of the use of force , instead of arguments , to convince men , i think is needless ; those who use it , not being ( that ever i heard ) concern'd that men should be convinced . but you go on in telling us your way of using force , only to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments , which are proper and sufficient to convince them ; but which , without being forced , they would not consider . and , say you , who can deny but that , indirectly , and at a distance , it does some service , towards bringing men to imbrace that truth , which either through negligence they would never acquaint themselves with , or through prejudice they would reject and condemn unheard ? whether this way of punishment is like to increase , or remove prejudice , we have already seen . and what that truth is , which you can positively say , any man , without being forced by punishment , would through carelesness never acquaint himself with , i desire you to name . some are call'd at the third , some at the ninth , and some at the eleventh hour . and whenever they are call'd , they imbrace all the truth necessary to salvation . but these slips may be forgiven , amongst so many gross and palpable mistakes , as appear to me all through your discourse . for example : you tell us that force used to bring men to consider , does indirectly , and at a distance , some service . here now you walk in the dark , and endeavour to cover your self with obscurity , by omitting two necessary parts . as , first , who must use this force : which , tho you tell us not here , yet by other parts of your treatise 't is plain you mean the magistrate . and , secondly , you omit to say upon whom it must be used ; who it is must be punished : and those , if you say any thing to your purpose , must be dissenters from the national religion , those who come not into church-communion with the magistrate . and then your proposition in fair plain terms will stand thus . if the magistrate punish dissenters , only to bring them to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper to convince them ; who can deny but that indirectly , and at distance , it may do service , &c. towards bringing men to embrace that truth which otherwise they would never be acquainted with ? &c. in which proposition , . there is something impracticable . . something unjust . and , . whatever efficacy there is in force ( your way apply'd ) to bring men to consider and be convinced , it makes against you . . it is impracticable to punish dissenters , as dissenters , only to make them consider . for if you punish them as dissenters ( as certainly you do , if you punish them alone , and them all without exception ) you punish them for not being of the national religion . and to punish a man for not being of the national religion , is not to punish him only to make him consider ; unless not to be of the national religion , and not to consider , be the same thing . but you will say the design is only to make dissenters consider ; and therefore they may be punished only to make them consider . to this i reply ; it is impossible you should punish one with a design only to make him consider , whom you punish for something else besides want of consideration ; or if you punish him whether he consider or no ; as you do , if you lay penalties on dissenters in general . if you should make a law to punish all stammerers ; could any one believe you , if you said it was designed only to make them leave swearing ? would not every one see it was impossible that punishment should be only against swweating , when all stammerers were under the penalty ? such a proposal as this , is in it self , at first sight , monstrously absurd . but you must thank your self for it . for to lay penalties upon stammerers , only to make them not swear , is not more absurd and impossible than it is to lay penalties upon dissenters only to make them consider . . to punish men out of the communion of the national church , to make them consider , is unjust . tlsey are punished because out of the national church : and they are out of the national church , because they are not yet convinced . their standing out therefore in this state , whilst they are not convinced , not satisfied in their minds , is no fault ; and therefore cannot justly be punished . but your method is , punish them , to make them consider such reasons and arguments as are proper to convince them . which is just such justice , as it would be for the magistrate to punish you for not being a cartesian , only to bring you to consider such reasons and arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince you : when it is possible , . that you being satisfied of the truth of your own opinion in philosophy , did not judg it worth while to consider that of des cartes . . it is possible you are not able to consider , and examine , all the proofs and grounds upon which he endeavours to establish his philosophy . . possibly you have examined , and can sind no reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince you . . what ever indirect efficacy there be in force , apply'd by the magistrate your way , it makes against you . force used by the magistrate to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments , which are proper and sufficient to convince them , but which without being forced they would not consider ; may , say you , be serviceable indirectly , and at a distance , to make men imbrace the truth which must save them . and thus , say i , it may be serviceable to bring men to receive and imbrace falshood , which will destroy them . so that force and punishment , by your own confession , not being able directly , by its proper efficacy , to do men any good , in reference to their future estate ; though it be sure directly to do them harm , in reference to their present condition here ; and indirectly , and in your way of applying it , being proper to do at least as much harm as good ; i desire to know what the vsefulness is which so much recommends it , even to a degree that you pretend it needful and necessary . had you some new untry'd chymical preparation , that was as proper to kill as to save an infirm man , ( of whose life i hope you would not be more tender than of a weak brother's soul ) would you give it your child , or try it upon your friend , or recommend it to the world for its rare usefulness ? i deal very favourably with you , when i say as proper to kill as to save . for force , in your indirect way , of the magistrates applying it to make men consider those ar●…uments that otherwise they would not ; to make them lend an ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right ; i say in this way , force is much more proper , and likely , to make men receive and imbrace error than the truth . . because men out of the right way are as apt , i think i may say apter , to use force , than others . for truth , i mean the truth of the gospel , which is that of the true religion , is mild , and gentle , and meek , and apter to use prayers and intreaties , than force , to gain a hearing . . because the magistrates of the world , or the civil soveraigns ( as you think it more proper to call them ) being few of them in the right way ; ( not one of ten , take which side you will ) perhaps you will grant not one of an hundred , being of the true religion ; 't is likely your indirect way of using of force would do an hundred , or at least ten times as much harm as good : especially if you consider , that as the magistrate will certainly use it to force men to hearken to the proper ministers of his religion , let it be what it will ; so you having set no time , nor bounds , to this consideration of arguments and reasons , short of being convinced ; you , under another pretence , put into the magistrate's hands as much power to sorce men to his religion , as any the openest persecutors can pretend to . for what difference , i beseech you , between punishing you to bring you to mass ; and punishing you to bring you to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince you that you ought to go to mass ? for till you are brought to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince you ; that is , till you are convinced ; you are punished on . if you reply , you meant reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the truth . i answer , if you meant so , why did you not say so ? but if you had , it would in this case do you little service . for the mass , in france , is as much supposed the truth , as the liturgy here . and your way of applying force will as much promote popery in france , as protestantism in england . and so you see how serviceable it is to make men receive and imbrace the truth that must save them . however you tell us , in the same page , that if force so applied , as is above mentioned , may in such sort as has been said , i. e. indirectly , and at a distance , be serviceable to bring men to receive and imbrace truth , you think it sufficient to sh●…w the usefulness of it in religion . where i shall observe , st . that this vsefulness amounts to no more but this , that it is not impossible but that it may be useful . and such a vsefulness one cannot deny to auricular confession , doing of penance , going of a pilgrimage to some saint , and what not . yet our church do's not think sit to use them : though it cannot be deny'd but they may have some of your indirect , and at a distance usefulness ; that is , perhaps may do some service , indirectly , and by accident . . force your way apply'd , as it may be useful , so also it may be useless . for , st , where the law punishes di●…enters , without telling them it is to make them consider , they may through ignorance and over-sight neglect to do it , and so your force proves useless . . some dissenters may have considered already , and then force imploy'd upon them must needs be useless ; unless you can think it useful to punish a man to make him do that which he has done already . . god has not directed it : and therefore we have no reason to expect he should make it successful . . it may be hurtful : nay it is likely to prove more hurtful than useful . st . because to punish men for that , which 't is visible cannot be known whether they have perform'd or no , is so palpable an injustice , that it is likelier to give them an aversion to the persons and religion that uses it , than to bring them to it . ly . because the greatest part of mankind being not able to discern betwixt truth and falshood , that depend upon long and many proofs , and remote consequences ; nor have ability enough to discover the salse grounds , and resist the captious and fallacious arguments of learned men versed in controversies ; are so much more expos'd , by the force which is used to make them hearken to the information and instruction of men appointed to it by the magistrate , or those of his religion , to be led into falshood and error , than they are likely this way to be brought to imbrace the truth that must save them ; by how much the national religions of the world are , beyond comparison , more of them false or erroneous , than such as have god for their author , and truth for their standard . and that seeking and examining , without the special grace of god , will not secure even knowing and learned men from error . we have a famous instance in the two reynold's ( both scholars , and brothers , but one a protestant , the other a papist ) who upon the exchange of papers between them , were both turn'd ; but so that neither of them , with all the arguments he could use , could bring his brother back to the religion which he himself had found reason to imbrace . here was ability to examine and judg , beyond the ordinary rate of most men. yet one of these brothers was so caught by the sophistry and skill of the other , that he was brought into error , from which he could never again be extricated . this we must unavoidably conclude ; unless we can think , that wherein they differ'd , they were both in the right ; or that truth can be an argument to support a falshood ; both which are impossible . and now , i pray , which of these two brothers would you have punished , to make him bethink himself , and bring him back to the truth ? for 't is certain some ill-grounded cause of assent alienated one of them from it . if you will examine your principles , you will find that , according to your rule , the papist must be punished in england , and the protestant in italy . so that , in effect , ( by your rule ) passion , humour , prejudice , lust , impressions of education , admiration of persons , worldly respect , and the like incompetent motives , must always be supposed on that side on which the magistrate is not . i have taken the pains here , in a short recapitulation , to give you the view of the vsefulness of force , your way applied , which you make such a noise with , and lay so much stress on . whereby i doubt not but it is visible , that its usefulness and uselessness laid in the ballance against each other , the pretended vsefulness is so far from outweighing , that it can neither incourage nor excuse the using of punishments ; which are not lawful to be used in our case without strong probability of success . but when to its uselesness mischief is added , and it is evident that more , much more , harm may be expected from it than good , your own argument returns upon you . for if it be reasonable to use it , because it may be serviceable to promote true religion , and the salvation of souls ; it is much more reasonable to let it alone , if it may be more serviceable to the promoting falshood , and the perdition of souls . and therefore you will do well hereafter not to build so much on the vsefulness of force , apply'd your way , your indirect and at a distance vsefulness , which amounts but to the shadow and possibility of vsefulness , but with an over-balancing weight of mischief and harm annexed to it . for upon a just estimate , this indirect , and at a distance , vsefulness can directly go for nothing ; or rather less than nothing . but suppose force , apply'd your way , were as useful for the promoting true religion , as i suppose i have shew'd it to be the contrary ; it does not from thence follow that it is lawful , and may be used . it may be very useful in a parish that has no teacher , or as bad as none , that a lay-man who wanted not abilities for it ( for such we may suppose to be ) should sometimes preach to them the doctrine of the gospel , and stir them up to the duties of a good life . and yet this , ( which cannot be deny'd may be at least indirectly , and at a distance , serviceable towards the promoting true religion and the salvation of souls ) you will not ( i imagine ) allow , for this vsefulness , to be lawful : and that , because he has not commission and authority to do it . the same might be said of the administration of the sacraments , and any other function of the priestly office. this is just our case . granting force , as you say , indirectly , and at a distance , useful to the salvation of mens souls ; yet it does not therefore follow that it is lawful for the magistrate to use it : because , as the author says , the magistrate has no commission or authority to do so . for however you have put it thus , ( as you have fram'd the author's argument ) force is utterly of no use for the promoting of true religion , and the salvation of souls ; and therefore no body can have any right to use any force or compulsion for the bringing men to the true religion ; yet the author does not , in those pages you quote , make the latter of these propositions an inference barely from the former ; but makes use of it as a truth proved by several arguments he had before brought to that purpose . for tho it be a good argument ; it is not useful , therefore not fit to be used : yet this will not be good logick ; it is useful , therefore any one has a right to use it . for if the vsefulness makes it lawful , it makes it lawful in any hands that can so apply it ; and so private men may use it . who can deny , say you , but that force indirectly , and at a distance , may do some service towards the bringing men to imbrace that truth , which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with . if this be good arguing in you , for the usefulness of force towards the saving of mens souls ; give me leave to argue after the same fashion . . i will suppose , which you will not deny me , that as there are many who take up their religion upon wrong grounds , to the indangering of their souls ; so there are many that abandon themselves to the heat of their lusts , to the indangering of their souls . dly , i will suppose , that as force apply'd your way is apt to make the inconsiderate consider , so force apply'd another way is as apt to make the lascivious chaste . the argument then , in your form , will stand thus : who can deny but that force , indirectly , and at a distance , may , by castration , do some service towards bringing men to imbrace that chastity , which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with . thus , you see , castration may , indirectly , and at a distance , be serviceable towards the salvation of mens souls . but will you say , from such an usefulness as this , because it may indirectly , and at a distance , conduce to the saving of any of his subjects souls , that therefore the magistrate has a right to do it , and may by force make his subjects eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven ? it is not for the magistrate , or any body else , upon an imagination of its vsefulness , to make use of any other means for the salvation of mens souls than what the author and finisher of our faith hath directed . you may be mistaken in what you think useful . dives thought , and so perhaps should you and i too , if not better inform'd by the scriptures , that it would b●… useful to rouze and awaken men if one should come to them from the dead . but he was mistaken . and we are told that if men will not hearken to moses and the prophets , the means appointed , neither will the strangeness nor terror of one coming from the dead perswade them . if what we are apt to think useful were thence to be concluded so , we should ( i fear ) be obliged to believe the miracles pretended to by the church of rome . for miracles , we know , were once useful for the promoting true religion , and the salvation of souls ; which is more than you can say for your political punishments : but yet we must conclude that god thinks them not useful now ; unless we will say ( that which without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things does not now use all useful means for promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . i think this consequence will hold , as well as what you draw in near the same words . let us not therefore be more wise than our maker , in that stupendious and supernatural work of our salvation . the scripture , that reveals it to us , contains all that we can know , or do , in order to it : and where that is silent , 't is in us presumption to direct . when you can shew any commission in scripture , for the use of force , to compel men to hear , any more than to imbrace the doctrine of others that differ from them , we shall have reason to submit to it , and the magistrate have some ground to set up this new way of persecution . but till then , 't will be sit for us to obey that precept of the gospel , which bids us take heed what we hear . so that hearing is not always so useful as you suppose . if it had , we should never have had so direct a caution against it . 't is not any imaginary vsefulness , you can suppose , which can make that a punishable crime , which the magistrate was never authorized to meddle with . go and teach all nations , was a commission of our saviour's : but there was not added to it , punish those that will not hear and consider what you say . no , but if they will not receive you , shake off the dust of your feet ; leave them , and apply your selves to some others . and st. paul knew no other means to make men hear , but the preaching of the gospel ; as will appear to any one who will read romans the th , , &c. faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the word of god. you go on , and in favour of your beloved force , you tell us that it is not only useful but needful . and here , after having at large , in the four following pages , set out the negligence or aversion , or other hinderances that keep men from examining , with that application and freedom of judgment they should , the grounds upon which they take up and persist in their religion , you come to conclude force necessary . your words are : if men are generally averse to a due consideration of things , where they are most concerned to use it ; if they usually take up their religion without examining it as they ought , and then grow so opinionative and so stiff in their prejudice , that neither the gentlest admonitions , nor the most earnest intreaties , shall ever prevail with them afterwards to do it ; what means is there left ( besides the grace of god ) to reduce those of them that are got into a wrong way , but to lay thorns and briars in it ? that since they are deaf to all perswasions , the uneasiness they meet with may at least put them to a stand , and incline them to lend an ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right way . what means is there left , say you , but force . what to do ? to reduce men , who are out of it , into the right way . so you tell us here . and to that , i say , there is other means besides force ; that which was appointed and made use of from the beginning , the preaching of the gospel . but , say you , to make them hear , to make them consider , to make them examine , there is no other means but punishment ; and therefore it is necessary . i answer . st , what if god , for reasons best known to himself , would not have men compell'd to hear ; but thought the good tidings of salvation , and the proposals of life and death , means and inducements enough to make them hear , and consider , now as well as heretofore ? then your means , your punishments , are not necessary . what if god would have men left to their freedom in this point , if they will hear , or if they will forbear , will you constrain them ? thus we are sure he did with his own people : and this when they were in captivity : and 't is very like were ill treated for being of a different religion from the national , and so were punished as dissenters . yet then god expected not that those punishments should force them to hearken , more than at other times : as appears by ezek. . . and this also is the method of the gospel . we are ambassadors for christ ; as if god did beseech by us , we pray in christ's stead , says st. paul , cor. v. . if god had thought it necessary to have men punish'd to make them give ear , he could have call'd magistrates to be spreaders and ministers of the gospel , as well as poor fisher-men , or paul a persecutor , who yet wanted not power to punish where punishment was necessary , as is evident in ananias and sapphira , and the incestuous corinthian . ly . what if god , foreseeing this force would be in the hands of men as passionate , as humoursome , as liable to prejudice and error as the rest of their brethren , did not think it a proper means to bring men into the right way ? ly . what if there be other means ? then yours ceases to be necessary , upon the account that there is no means left . for you your self allow , that the grace of god is another means . and i suppose you will not deny it to be both a proper and sufficient means ; and , which is more , the only means ; such means as can work by it self , and without which all the force in the world can do nothing . god alone can open the ear that it may hear , and open the heart that it may understand : and this he does in his own good time , and to whom he is graciously pleas'd ; but not according to the will and phancy of man , when he thinks sit , by punishments , to compel his brethren . if god has pronounced against any person or people , what he did against the jews , ( isa. . . ) make the heart of this people fat , and make their ears heavy , and shut their eyes ; lest they see with their eyes , and hear with their ears , and understand with their hearts , and convert , and be healed : will all the force you can use , be a means to make them hear and understand , and be converted ? but , sir , to return your argument ; you see no other means left ( taking the world as we now find it ) to make men throughly and impartially examine a religion , which they imbraced upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it . and thence you conclude the use of force , by the magistrate , upon dissenters , necessary . and , i say , i see no other means left ( taking the world as we now find it , wherein the magistrates never lay penalties , for matters of religion , upon those of his own church , nor is it to be expected they ever should ; ) to make men of the national church , any where , throughly and impartially examine a religion , which they imbraced upon such inducements , as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it . and therefore , i conclude the use of force by dissent●…rs upon conformists necessary . i appeal to the world , whether this be not as just and natural a conclusion as yours . though , if you will have my opinion , i think the more genuine consequence is , that force , to make men examine matters of religion , is not necessary at all . but you may take which of these consequences you please . both of them , i am sure , you cannot avoid . it is not for you and me , out of an imagination that they may be useful , or are necessary , to prescribe means in the great and mysterious work of salvation , other than what god himself has directed . god has appointed force as useful and necessary , and therefore it is to be used ; is a way of arguing , becoming the ignorance and humility of poor creatures . but i think force useful or necessary , and therefore it is to be used ; has , methinks , a little too much presumption in it . you ask , what means else is there left ? none , say i , to be used by man , but what god himself has directed in the scriptures , wherein are contained all the means and methods of salvation . faith is the gift of god. and we are not to use any other means to procure this gift to any one , but what god himself has prescribed . if he has there appointed that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right ; and that they should be punished by the magistrate if they did not ; 't will be past doubt , it is to be made use of . but till that can be done , 't will be in vain to say what other means is there left . if all the means god has appointed , to make men hear and consider , be exhortation in season and out of season , &c. together with prayer for them , and the example of meekness and a good life ; this is all ought to be done , whether they will hear , or whether they will forbear . by these means the gospel at first made it self to be heard through a great part of the world ; and in a crooked and perverse generation , led away by lusts , humours , and prejudice , ( as well as this you complain of ) prevail'd with men to hear and imbrace the truth , and take care of their own souls ; without the assistance of any such force of the magistrate , which you now think needful . but whatever neglect or aversion there is in some men , impartially and throughly to be instructed ; there will upon a due examination ( i fear ) be found no less a neglect and aversion in others , impartially and throughly to instruct them . 't is not the talking even general truths in plain and clear language ; much less a man 's own fancies in scholastick or uncommon ways of speaking , an hour or two , once a week , in publick ; that is enough to instruct even willing hearers in the way of salvation , and the grounds of their religion . they are not politick discourses which are the means of right information in the foundations of religion . for with such , ( sometimes venting antimonarchical principles , sometimes again preaching up nothing but absolute monarchy and passive obedience , as the one or other have been in vogue and the way to preferment ) have our churches rung in their turns , so loudly , that reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth in the controverted points of religion , and to direct them in the right way to salvation , were scarce any were to be heard . but how many , do you think , by friendly and christian debates with them at their houses , and by the gentle methods of the gospel made use of in private conversation , might have been brought into the church ; who , by railing from the pulpit , ill and unfriendly treatment out of it , and other neglects or miscarriages of those who claimed to be their teachers , have been driven from hearing them ? paint the defects and miscarriages frequent on this side , as well as you have done those on the other , and then do you , with all the world , consider whether those who you so handsomely declaim against , for being misled by education , passion , humour , prejudice , obstinacy , &c. do deserve all the punishment . perhaps it will be answered ; if there be so much toil in it , that particular persons must be apply'd to , who then will be a minister ? and what if a lay-man should reply : if there be so much toil in it , that doubts must be cleared , prejudices removed , foundations examined , &c. who then will be a protestant ? the excuse will be as good hereafter for the one as for the other . this new method of yours , which you say no body can deny but that indirectly , and at a distance , it does some service towards bringing men to embrace the truth ; was never yet thought on by the most refined persecutors . tho indeed it is not altogether unlike the plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous usage of the protestants in france , ( designed to extirpate the reformed religion there ) from being a persecution for religion . the french king requires all his subjects to come to mass. those who do not , are punished with a witness . for what ? not for their religion , say the pleaders for that discipline , but for disobeying the king's laws . so by your rule , the dissenters ( for thither you would , and thither you must come , if you mean any thing ) must be punished . for what ? not for their religion , say you , not for following the light of their own reason , not for obeying the dictates of their own consciences . that you think not fit . for what then are they to be punished ? to make them , say you , examine the religion they have imbraced , and the religion they have rejected . so that they are punished , not for having offended against a law : for there is no law of the land that requires them to examine . and which now is the fairer plea , pray judg . you ought , indeed , to have the credit of this new invention . all other law-makers have constantly taken this method ; that where any thing was to be amended , the fault was first declared , and then penalties denounced against all those , who after a time set , should be found guilty of it . this the common sense of mankind , and the very reason of laws ( which are intended not for punishment , but correction ) has made so plain ; that the subtilest and most resined law-makers have not gone out of this course , nor have the most ignorant and barbarous nations mist it . but you have out-done solon and lycurgus , moses and our saviour , and are resolved to be a law-maker of a way by your self . 't is an old and obsolete way , and will not serve your turn , to begin with warnings and threats of penalties to be inflicted on those who do not reform , but continue to do that which you think they fail in . to allow of impunity to the innocent , or the opportunity of amendment to those who would avoid the penalties , are formalities not worth your notice . you are for a shorter and surer way . take a whole tribe and punish them at all adventures ; whether guilty or no , of the miscarriage which you would have amended ; or without so much as telling them what it is you would have them do , but leaving them to find it out if they can . all these absurdities are contained in your way of proceeding ; and are impossible to be avoided by any one who will punish dissenters , and only dissenters , to make them consider and weigh the grounds of their religion , and impartially examine whether it be true or no , and upon what grounds they took it up , that so they may find and imbrace the truth that must save them . but that this new sort of discipline may have all fair play ; let us enquire , first , who it is you would have be punished . in the place above cited , they are those who are got into a wrong way , and are deaf to all perswasions . if these are the men to be punished , let a law be made against them : you have my consent ; and that is the proper course to have offenders punished . for you do not , i hope , intend to punish any fault by a law , which you do not name in the law ; nor make a law against any fault you would not have punished . and now , if you are sincere , and in earnest , and are ( as a fair man should be ) sor what your words plainly signify , and nothing else ; what will such a law serve for ? men in the wrong way are to be punished : but who are in the wrong way is the question . you have no more reason to determine it against one , who differs from you ; than he has to conclude against you , who differ from him . no , not tho you have the magistrate and the national church on your side . for , if to differ from them be to be in the wrong way ; you , who are in the right way in england , will be in the wrong way in france . every one here must be judg for himself : and your law will reach no body , till you have convinced him he is in the wrong way . and then there will be no need of punishment to make him consider ; unless you will assirm again , what you have deny'd , and , have men punished for imbracing the religion they believe to be true , when it differs from yours or the publick . besides being in the wrong way , those who you would have punished must be such as are deaf to all perswasions . but any such , i suppose , you will hardly sind , who hearken to no body , not to those of their own way . if you mean by deaf to all perswasions , all perswasions of a contrary party , or of a different church ; such , i suppose , you may abundantly find in your own church , as well as else-where ; and i presume to them you are so charitable , that you would not have them punished for not lending an ear to seducers . for constancy in the truth , and perseverance in the faith , is ( i hope ) rather to be incouraged , than by any penalties check'd in the orthodox . and your church , doubtless as well as all others , is orthodox to it self , in all its tenets . if you mean by all perswasion , all your perswasion , or all perswasion of those of your communion ; you do but beg the question , and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from , and will not comply with you . your next words are , when men fly from the means of a right information , and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is , throughly and impartially to examine a religion , which they embraced upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it ; what human method can be used , to bring them to act like men , in an affair of such consequence , and to make a wiser and more rational choice , but that of laying such penalties upon them , as may ballance the weight of those prejudices which inclin'd them to prefer a false way before the true , and recover them to so much sobriety and reflection , as seriously to put the question to themselves ; whether it be really worth the while to undergo such inconveniencies , for adhering to a religion , which , for any thing they know , may be false , or for rejecting another ( if that be the case ) which , for any thing they know , may be true , till they have brought it to the bar of reason , and given it a fair trial there . here you again bring in such as prefer a false way before a true : to which having answered already , i shall here say no more , but that , since our church will not allow those to be in a false way who are out of the church of rome , because the church of rome ( which pretends infallibity ) declares hers to be the only true way ; certainly no one of our church ( nor any other , which claims not infallibility ) can require any one to take the testimony of any church , as a sufficient proof of the truth of her own doctrine . so that true and false ( as it commonly happens , when we suppose them for our selves , or our party ) in essect , signify just nothing , or nothing to the purpose ; unless we can think that true or false in england , which will not be so at rome , or geneva : and vice versâ . as for the rest of the description , of those on whom you are here laying penalties ; i beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your church , let it be what it will. consider , i say , if there be none in your church who have imbrac'd her religion , upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it ; who have not been inclin'd by prejudices ; who do not adhere to a religion , which for any thing they know may be false , and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true . if you have any such in your communion ( and 't will be an admirable , tho i fear but a little , flock that has none such in it ) consider well what you have done . you have prepared rods for them , for which i imagine they will con you no thanks . for to make any tolerable sense of what you here propose , it must be understood that you would have men of all religions punished , to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such inconveniencies for adhering to a religion which for any thing they know may be false . if you hope to avoid that , by what you have said of true and false ; and pretend that the supposed preference of the true way in your church , ought to preserve its members from your punishment ; you manifestly triste . for every church's testimony , that it has chosen the true way , must be taken for it self ; and then none will be liable ; and your new invention of punishment is come to nothing : or else the differing churches testimonies must be taken one for another ; and then they will be all out of the t●…ue way , and your church need penalties as well as the rest . so that , upon your principles , they must all or none be punished . chuse which you please : one of them , i think , you cannot escape . what you say in the next words ; where instruction is stifly refused , and all admonitions and perswasions prove vain and ineffectual ; differs nothing but in the way of expressing , from deaf to all perswasions : and so that is answer'd already . in another place , you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished , in these words ; those who refuse to embrace the doctrine , and submit to the spiritual government of the proper ministers of religion , who by special designation , are appointed to exhort , admonish , reprove , &c. here then , those to be punished , are such who refuse to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the proper ministers of religion . whereby we are as much still at uncertainty , as we were before , who those are who ( by your scheme , and laws suitable to it ) are to be punished . since every church has , as it thinks , its proper ministers of religion . and if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the ministers of another church ; then all men will be guilty , and must be punished ; even those of your church , as well as others . if you mean those who refuse , &c. the ministers of their own church ; very few will incur your penalties . but if , by these proper ministers of religion , the ministers of some particular church are intended ; why do you not name it ? why are you so reserv'd , in a matter wherein , if you speak not out , all the rest that you say will be to no purpose ? are men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government , of the proper ministers of the church of geneva ? for this time , ( since you have declared nothing to the contrary ) let me suppose you of that church : and then , i am sure , that is it that you would name . for of what-ever church you are , if you think the ministers of any one church ought to be hearken'd to , and obey'd , it must be those of your own . there are persons to be punished , you say . this you contend for , all through your book ; and lay so much stress on it , that you make the preservation and propagation of religion , and the salvation of souls , to depend on it : and yet you describe them by so general and equivocal marks ; that , unless it be upon suppositions which no body will grant you , i dare say , neither you , nor any body else , will be able to find one guilty . pray find me , if you can , a man whom you can , judicially prove ( for he that is to be punished by law , must be fairly tried ) is in a wrong way , in respect of his faith ; i mean , who is deaf to all perswasions , who flies from all means of a right information , who refuses to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the spiritual pastors . and when you have done that , i think , i may allow you what power you please to punish him ; without any prejudice to the toleration the author of the letter proposes . but why , i pray , all this bogling , all this loose talking , as if you knew not what you meant , or durst not speak it out ? would you be for punishing some body , you know not whom ? i do not think so ill of you . let me then speak out for you . the evidence of the argument has convinced you that men ought not to be persecuted for their religion ; that the severities in use amongst christians cannot be defended ; that the magistrate has not authority to compel any one to his religion . this you are forced to yield . but you would fain retain some power in the magistrate's hands to punish dissenters , upon a new pretence ; viz. not for having imbraced the doctrine and worship they believe to be true and right , but for not having well consider'd their own and the magistrate's religion . to shew you that i do not speak wholly without-book ; give me leave to mind you of one passage of yours . the words are , penalties to put them upon a sorious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrates and them . though these words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished , yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them . and they more clearly point out whom you aim at , than all the foregoing places , where you seem to ( and should ) describe them . for they are such as between whom and the magistrate there is a controversy : that is , in short , who differ from the magistrate in religion . and now indeed you have given us a note by which these you would have punished may be known . we have , with much ado , found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished . which in other cases is usually not very difficult : because there the faults to be mended easily design the persons to be corrected . but yours is a new method , and unlike all that ever went before it . in the next place ; let us see for what you would have them punished . you tell us , and it will easily be granted you , that not to examine and weigh impartially , and without prejudice or passion , ( all which , for shortness-sake , we will express by this one word consider ) the religion one embraces or refuses , is a fault very common , and very prejudicial to true religion , and the salvation of mens souls . but penalties and punishments are very necessary , say you , to remedy this evil. let us see now how you apply this remedy . therefore , say you , let all dissenters be punished . why ? have no dissenters considered of religion ? or have all conformists considered ? that you your self will not say . your project therefore is just as reasonable , as if a lethargy growing epidemical in england ; you should propose to have a law made to blister and scarify and shave the heads of all who wear gowns : though it be certain that neither all who wear gowns are lethargick , nor all who are lethargick wear gowns . — dii te damasippe deaeque verum ob consilium donent tonsore . for there could not be certainly a more learned advice , than that one man should be pull'd by the ears , because another is asleep . this , when you have consider'd of it again , ( for i find , according to your principle , all men have now and then need to be jog'd ) you will , i guess , be convinced is not like a fair physician , to apply a remedy to a disease ; but , like an engag'd enemy , to vent one's spleen upon a party . common sense , as well as common justice , requires , that the remedies of laws and penalties should be directed against the evil that is to be removed , where-ever it be found . and if the punishment , you think so necessary , be ( as you pretend ) to cure the mischief you complain of , you must let it pursue and fall on the guilty , and those only , in what company soever they are ; and not , as you here propose , and is the highest injustice , punish the innocent considering dissente●… , with the guilty ; and , on the other side , let the inconsiderate guilty conformist scape , with the innocent . for one may rationally presume that the national church has some , nay more , in proportion , of those who little consider or concern themselves about religion , than any congregation of dissenters . for conscience , or the care of their souls , being once laid aside ; interest , of course , leads men into that society , where the protection and countenance of the government , and hopes of preferment , bid fairest to all their remaining desires . so that if careless , negligent , inconsiderate men in matters of religion , who without being forced would not consider , are to be roused into a care of their souls , and a search after truth , by punishments ; the national religion , in all countries , will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those punishments ; at least , not to be wholly exempt from them . this is that which the author of the letter , as i remember complains of ; and that justly , viz. that the pretended care of mens souls always expresses it self , in those who would have force any way made use of to that end , in very unequ●…l methods ; some persons being to be treated with severity , whilst others guilty of the same faults are not to be so much as touched . though you are got pretty w●…ll out of the deep mud , and renounce punishments directly for religion ; yet you stick still in this part of the mire ; whilst you would have dissenters punished to make them consider , but would not have any thing done to conformists , tho never so negligent in this point of considering . the author's letter pleas'd me , because it is equal to all mankind , is direct , and will , i think , hold every where ; which i take to be a good mark of truth . for , i shall always suspect that neither to comport with the truth of religion , or the design of the gospel , which is suited to only some one country , or party . what is true and good in england , will be true and good at rome too , in china , or geneva . but whether your great and only method for the propagating of truth , by bringing the inconsiderate by punishments to consider , would ( according to your way of applying your punishments only to dissenters from the national religion ) be of use in those countries , or any where but where you suppose the magistrate to be in the right , judg you . pray , sir , consider a little , whether prejudice has not some share in your way of arguing . for this is your position ; men are generally negligent in examining the grounds of their religion . this i grant . but could there be a more wild and incoherent consequence drawn from it , than this ; therefore dissenters must be punished ? but that being laid aside , let us now see to what end they must be punished . sometimes it is , to bring them to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them . of what ? that it is not easy to set grantham steeple upon paul's church ? what-ever it be you would have them convinced of , you are not willing to tell us . and so it may be any thing . sometimes it is , to incline them to lend an ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right . which is , to lend an ear to all who differ from them in religion ; as well crafty seducers , as others . whether this be for the procuring the salvation of their souls , the end for which you say this force is to be used , judg you . but this i am sure ; whoever will lend an ear to all who will tell them they are out of the way , will not have much time for any other business . sometimes it is , to recover men to so much sobriety and reflection , as seriously to put the question to themselves , whether it be really worth their while to undergo such inconveniences , for adhering to a religion which , for any thing they know , may be false , or for rejecting another ( if that be the case ) which , for ought they know , may be true , till they have brought it to the bar of reason , and given it a fair trial there . which , in short , amounts to thus much , viz. to make them examine whether their religion be true , and so worth the holding , under those penalties that are annexed to it . dissenters are indebted to you , for your great care of their souls . but what , i beseech you , shall become of those of the national church , every where ( which make sar the greater part of mankind ) who have no such punishments to make them consider ; who have not this only remedy provided sor them ; but are lest in that deplorable condition , you mention , of being suffer'd quietly , and without molestation , to take no care at all of their souls , or in doing of it to follow their own prejudices , humours , or some crafty seducers : need not those of the national church , as well as others , bring their religion to the bar of reason , and give it a fair trial there ? and if they need to do so , ( as they must , if all national religions cannot be supposed true ) they will always need that which , you say , is the only means to make them do so . so that if you are sure , as you tell us , that there is need of your method ; i am sure , there is as much need of it in national churches , as any other . and so , for ought i can see , you must either punish them , or let others alone ; unless you think it reasonable that the sar greater part of mankind should constantly be without that soveraign and only remedy , which they stand in need of equally with other people . sometimes the end for which men must be punished is , to dispose them to submit to instruction , and to give a fair hearing to the reasons are offer'd for the inli●…htning their minds , and discovering the truth to them . if their own words may be taken for it , there are as sew dissenters as consormists , in any country , who will not profess they have done , and do this . and if their own word ; may not be taken ; who , i pray must be judg ? you and your magistrates ? if so , then it is plain you punish them not to dispose them to submit to instruction , but to your instruction ; not to dispose them to give a fair hearing to reasons offer'd for the inlightning their minds , but to give an obedient hearing to your reasons . if you mean this ; it had been sairer and shorter to have spoken out plainly , than thus in fair words , of indesinite signification , to say that which amounts to nothing . for what sense is it , to punish a man to dispose him to submit to instruction , and give a fair hearing to reasons offer'd for the inlightning his mind , and discovering truth to him , who ●…s two or three times a week several 〈◊〉 on purp●…se to do i●… , and that with the hazard of his liberty or purse ; 〈◊〉 you mean your instructions , your reasons , your truth : which brings us but back to what you have disclaimed , plain persecution for differing in religion . sometimes this is to be done , to prevail with men to weigh matters of religion carefully , and impartially . discountenance and punishment put into one scale , with impunity and hopes of preferment put into the other , is as sure a way to make a man weigh impartially , as it would be for a prince to bribe and threaten a judg to make him judg uprightly . sometimes it is , to make men bethink themselves , and put it out of the power of any foolish humor , or unreasonable prejudice , to alienate them from truth and their own happiness . add but this , to put it out of the power of any humour or prejudice of their own , or other mens ; and i grant the end is good , if you can find the means to procure it . but why it should not be put out of the power of other mens humour or prejudice , as well as their own , wants ( and will always want ) a reason to prove . would it not , i beseech you , to an indifferent by-stander , appear humour or prejudice , or some thing as bad ; to see men , who profess a religion reveal'd from heaven , and which they own contains all in it necessary to salvation , exclude men from their communion , and persecute them with the penalties of the civil law , for not joining in the use of ceremonies which are no where to be found in that reveal'd religion ? would it not appear humour or prejudice , or some such thing , to a sober impartial heathen ; to see christians exclude and persecute one of the same faith , for things which they themselves confess to be indifferent , and not worth the contending for ? prejudice , humour , passion , lusts , impressions of education , reverence and admiration of persons , worldly respects , love of their own choice , and the like , ( to which you justly impute many mens taking up and persisting in their religion ) are indeed good words ; and so , on the other side , are these following ; truth , the right way , inlightning , reason , sound judgment ; but they signify nothing at all to your purpose , till you can evidently and unquestionably shew the world that the latter ( viz. truth and the right way , &c. ) are always , and in all countries , to be found only in the national church ; and the former ( viz. passion and prejudice , &c. ) only amongst the dissenters . but to go on : sometimes it is , to bring men to take such care as they ought of their salvation . what care is such as men ought to take , whilst they are out of your church , will be hard for you to tell me . but you endeavour to explain your self , in the following words ; that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other person , nor yet of their own lusts and passions , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace . you do well to make use of punishment to shut passion out of the choice : because you know fear of suffering is no passion . but let that pass . you would have men punished , to bring them to take such care of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any other person to prescribe to them . are you sincere ? are you in earnest ? tell me then truly : did the magistrate or national church , any where , or yours in particular , ever punish any man , to bring him to have this care which , you say , he ought to take of his salvation ? did you ever punish any man , that he might not blindly leave it to the choice of his parish-priest , or bishop , or the convocation , what faith or worship he should imbrace ? 't will be suspected care of a party , or any thing else rather than care of the salvation of mens souls ; if , having found out so useful so necessary a remedy , the only method there is room left for , you will apply it but partially , and make trial of it only on those who you have truly least kindness for . this will , unavoidably , give one reason to imagine , you do not think so well of your remedy as you pretend , who are so sparing of it to your friends ; but are very free of it to strangers , who in other things are used very much like enemies . but your remedy is like the helleboraster , that grew in the woman's garden , for the cure of worms in her neighbours children : for truly it wrought too roughly , to give it to any of her own . methinks your charity , in your present persecution , is much what as prudent , as justisiable , as that good woman's . i hope i have done you no injury , that i here suppose you of the church of england . if i have , i beg your pardon . it is no offence of malice , i i assure you : for i suppose no worse of you , than i confess of my self . sometimes this punishment that you contend for is , to bring men to act according to reason , and sound judgment . tertius è coelo cecidit cato . this is reformation indeed . if you can help us to it , you will deserve statues to be erected to you , as to the restorer of decay'd religion . but if all men have not reason and sound judgment , will punishment put it into them ? besides , concerning this matter mankind is so divided , that he acts according to reason and sound judgment at auspurg , who who would be judged to do the quite contrary at edinburgh . will punishment make men know what is reason and sound judgment ? if it will not , 't is impossible it should make them act according to it . reason and sound judgment are the elixir it self , the universal remedy : and you may as reasonably punish men to bring them to have the philosopher's stone , as to bring them to act according to reason and sound judgment . sometimes it is , to put men upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them , which is the way for them to come to the knowledg of the truth . but what if the truth be on neither side ( as i am apt to imagine you will think it is not , where neither the magistrate nor the dissenter is either of them of your church ) how will the examining the controversy between the magistrate and him be the way to come to the knowledg of the truth ? suppose the controversy between a lutheran and a papist ; or , if you please , between a presbyterian magistrate and a quaker subject . will the examining the controversy between the magistrate and the dissenting subject , in this case bring him to the knowledg of the truth ? if you say yes , then you grant one of these to have the truth on his side . for the examining the controversy between a presbyterian and a quaker , leaves the controversy either of them has with the church of england , or any other church , untouched . and so one , at least , of those being already come to the knowledg of the truth , ought not to be put under your discipline of punishment ; which is only to bring him to the truth . if you say no , and that the examining the controversy between the magistrate and the dissenter , in this case , will not bring him to the knowledg of the truth ; you consess your rule to be salse , and your method to no purpose . to conclude , your system is , in short , this . you would have all men ( laying aside prejudice , humour , passion , &c. ) examin the grounds of their religion , and search for the truth . this , i consess , is heartily to be wish'd . the means that you propose to make men do this , is that dissenters should be punished , to make them do so . it is as if you had said : men generally are guilty of a fault ; therefore l●…t one sect , who have the ill luck to be of an opinion different from the magistrate , be punished . this at first sight shocks any who has the least spark of sense , reason or justice . but having spoken of this already , and concluding that upon second thoughts , you your self will be ashamed of it ; let us consider it put so as to be consistent with common sense , and with all the advantage it can bear ; and then let us see what you can make os it . men are negligent in examining the religions they imbrace , refuse , or persist in ; therefore it is sit they should be punished to make them do it . this is a con●…e indeed which may , without desiance to common s●…nse , be drawn from it . this is the use , the only use , which you think punishment can indirectly , and at a distance , have , in matters of religion . you would have men by punishments d●…iven to examine . what ? religion . to what end ? to bring them to the knowledg of the truth . but i answer . first , every one has not the ability to do this . secondly , every one has not the opportunity to do it . would you have every poor protestant , for example , in the palatinate , examine throughly whether the pope b●… insallibl●… , or head of the church ; whether there be a purgatory ; whether saints are to be pray'd to , or the dead pray'd sor ; whether the s●…ripture be the only rule of faith ; whether there be no salvantion out of the church ; and whether there be no church without bishops ; and an hundred other questions in controversy between the papists and those protestants ; and when he had master'd these , go on to sortify himself against the opinions and objections of other churches he dissers from ? this , which is no small task , must be done ; before a man can have brought his religion to the bar of reason , and given it fair trial there . and if you will punish men till this be done ; the country-man must leave off plowing and sowing , and betake himself to the study of greek and latin ; and the artisan must sell his tools , to buy fathers and school-men , and leave his family to starve . if something less than this will satisfy you , pray tell me what is enough . have they considered and examined enough , if they are satisfied themselves where the truth lies ? if this be the limits of their examination , you will sind sew to punish ; unless you will punish them to make them do what they have done already . for , however he came by his religion , there is scarce any one to be found who does not own himself satisfied that he is in the right . or else , must they be punished to make them consider and examine till they imbrace that which you choose for truth ? if this be so , what do you but in effect choose for them , when yet you would have men punished , to bring them to such a care of their souls that no other person might choose for them ? if it be truth in general you would have them by punishments driven to seek ; that is to offer matter of dispute , and not a rule of discipline . for to punish any one to make him seek till he sind truth , without a judg of truth , is to punish for you know not what ; and is all one as if you should whip a scholar to make him find out the square root of a number you do not know . i wonder not therefore that you could not resolve with your self what degree of severity you would have used , nor how long continued ; when you dare not speak out directly whom you would have punished , and are far from being clear to what end they should be under penalties . consonant to this uncertainty , of whom , or what , to be punished ; you tell us , that there is no question of the success of this method . force will certainly do , if duly proportioned to the design of it . what , i pray , is the design of it ? i challeng you , or any man living , out of what you have said in your book , to tell me directly what it is . in all other punishments that ever i heard of yet , till now that you have taught the world a new method , the design of them has been to cure the crime they are denounced against ; and so i think it ought to be here . what i beseech you is the crime here ? dissenting ? that you say not , any where , is a fault . besides you tell us , that the magistrate hath not an authority to compel any one to his religion : and that you do not require that men should have no rule but the religion of the country . and the power you ascribe to the magistrate is given him to bring men , not to his own , but to the true religion . if dissenting be not the fault ; is it that a man does not examine his own religion , and the grounds of it ? is that the crime your punishments are designed to cure ? neither that dare you say ; lest you displease more than you satisfy with your new discipline . and then again , ( as i said before ) you must tell us how far you would have them examin , before you punish them for not doing it . and i imagine , if that were all we required of you , it would be long enough before you would trouble us with a law , that should prescribe to every one how far he was to examine matters of religion ; wherein if he fail'd and came short , he was to be punished ; if he perform'd and went in his examination to the bounds set by the law , he was acquitted and free . sir , when you consider it again , you will perhaps think this a case reserv'd to the great day , when the secrets of all hearts shall be laid open . for i imagine it is beyond the power or judgment of man , in that variety of circumstances , in respect of parts , tempers , opportunities , helps , &c. men are in , in this world , to determine what is every one's duty in this great business of search , enquiry , examination , or to know when any one has done it . that which makes me believe you will be of this mind , is , that where you undertake for the success of this method , if rightly used , it is with a limitation , upon such as are not altogether incurable . so that when your remedy is prepared according to art , ( which art is yet unknown ) and rightly apply'd , and given in a due dose , ( all which are secrets ) it will then infallibly cure . whom ? all that are not incurable by it . and so will a pippin posset , eating fish in lent , or a presbyterian lecture , certainly cure all that are not incurable by them . for i am sure you do not mean it will cure all , but those who are absolutely incurable ; because you your self allow one means left of cure , when yours will not do , viz. the grace of god. your words are , what means is there left ( except the grace of god ) to reduce them , but to lay thorns and briars in their way . and here also , in the place we were considering , you tell us , the incurable are to be left to god. whereby , if you mean they are to be left to those means he has ordained for mens conversion and salvation , yours must never be made use of : for he indeed has prescribed preaching and hearing of his word ; but as for those who will not hear , i do not find any where that he has commanded they should be compell'd or beaten to it . there is a third thing that you are as t●…nder and reserv'd in , as either naming the criminal ; to be punished , or positively telling us the end for which they should be punished : and that is with what sort of penalties , what degree of punishment they should be forced . you are indeed so pracious to them , that you renounce the severities and penal●…s hith●…rto made use of . you ●…ell us , they should be but 〈◊〉 penalti●…s . but if we ask you what are moderate penalties , you confess you cannot tell us . so th●…t by moderate , here , you yet mean nothing . you tell us , the outward force to be apply'd , should be duly temper'd . but what that due temp●…r is , you do not , or cannot say ; and so in effect , it signisies just nothing . yet if in this you are not plain and direct , all the rest of your design will signify ●…ing . for it being to have some men , and to some end , punished ; yet if it cannot be found what punishment is to be used , i●… 〈◊〉 ( notwithstanding all you have said ) utterly useless . you tell us modestly , that to determine precisely the just measure of the punishment , will require some consideration . if the faults were preci●…ly determined , and could be prov●…d , it would require no more consideration to determine the measure of the punishment , in this , than it would in ●…ny other cas●… , where those were known . but where the fault is undesined , and the guilt not to be proved , ( as i suppose it will be sound in this present business of examining ) it will without doubt require consideration to proportion the force to the design . just so much consideration as it will require to sit a co●…t to the moon , or proportion a shooe to the feet of those who inhabit her . for to proportion a punishment to 〈◊〉 fault that you do not name , ( and so we in charity ought to think you do not yet know ) and a fault that when you have named it , will be imposible to be proved who are or are not guilty of it ; will i suppose require as much consideration as to sit a shooe to feet whose size and shape are not known . however , you offer some measures whereby to regulate your punishments ; which when they are looked into , will be sound to be just as good as none ; they being impossible to be any rule in the case . the sirst is , so much force , or such penalties as are or-dinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate , to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially , and without which ordinarily they will not do this . where it is to be observed : first , that who are these men of common discretion , is as hard to know , as to know what is a fit degree of punishment in the case ; and so you do but regulate one uncertainty by another . some men will be apt to think , that he who will not weigh matters of religion , which are of infinite concernment to him , without punishment , cannot in reason be thought a man of comm●…n discretion . many women of common discretion enough to manage the ordinary affairs of their families , are not able to read a page in an ordinary author , or to understand and give an account what it means , when read to them . many men of common discretion in their callings , are not able to judg when an argument is conclusive or no ; much less to trace it through a long train of consequences . what penalties shall be sufficient to prevail with such ( who upon examination i ●…ear will not be found to make the least part of mankind ) to examine and weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially ? the law allows all to have common discretion , for whom it has not provided guardians or bedlam . so that , in effect , your men of common discretion , are all men , not judg'd ideots or madmen : and penalties sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , are penalties sufficient to prevail with all men , but ideots and mad-men . which what a measure it is to regulate penalties by , let all men of common discretion judg . secondly , you may be pleased to consider , that all men of the same degree of discretion , are not apt to be moved by the same degree of penalties . some are of a more yielding , some of a more stiff temper ; and what is sufficient to prevail on one , is not half enough to move the other ; tho both men of common discretion . so that common discretion will be here of no use to determine the measure of punishment : especially , when in the same clause you except men desperately perverse and obstinate ; who are as hard to be known , as what you seek : viz. the just proportitions of punishments necessary to prevail with men to consider , examine , and weigh matters of religion ; wherein , if a man tells you he has consider'd , he has weigh'd , he has examin'd , and so goes on in his former course , 't is impossible for you ever to know whether he has done his duty , or whether he be desperately perverse and obstinate . so that this exception signifies just nothing . there are many things in your use of force and penalties , different from any i ever met with elsewhere . one of them , this clause of yours , concerning the measure of punishments , now under consideration , offers me : wherein you proportion your punishments only to the yielding and corrigible , not to the perverse and obstinate ; contrary to the common discretion which has hitherto made laws in other cases , which levels the punishments against refractory offenders , and never spares them because they are obstinate . this however i will not blame , as an oversight in you . your new method , which aims at such impracticable and inconsistent things as laws cannot bear , nor penalties be useful to , forced you to it . the uselessness , absurdity , and unreasonableness of great severities , you had acknowledg'd in the foregoing paragraphs . dissenters you would have brought to consider by moderate penalties . they lye under them ; but whether they have consider'd or no ( for that you cannot tell ) , they still continue dissenters . what is to be done now ? why , the incurable are to be left to god , as you tell us , p. . your punishments were not meant to prevail on the desperately perverse and obstinate , as you tell us here . and so whatever be the success , your punishments are however justified . you have given us in another place , something like another boundary to your moderate penalties : but when examined , it proves just like the rest , trifling only , in good words , so put together as to have no direct meaning ; an art very much in use amongst some sort of learned men. the words are these ; such penalties as may not tempt persons who have any concern for their eternal salvation , ( and those who have none , ought not to be considered ) to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or profess one which they do not believe to be so . if by any concern , you mean a true concern for their eternal salvation , by this rule you may make your punishments as great as you please ; and all the severities you have difclaim'd may be brought in play again : for none of those will be able to make a man , who is truly concerned for his eternal salvation , renounce a religion he believes to be true , or prosess one he does not believe to be so . if by those who have any concern , you mean such who have some faint wishes for happiness hereafter , and would be glad to have things go well with them in the other world , but will venture nothing in this world for it ; these the moderatest punishments you can imagine , will make change their religion . if by any concern , you mean whatever may be between these two ; the degrees are so infinite , that to proportion your punishments by that , is to have no measure of them at all . one thing i cannot but take notice of in this passage , before i leave it : and that is that you say here , those who have no concern for their salvation deserve not to be considered . in other parts of your letter you pretend to have compassion on the careless , and provide remedies for them : but here , of a sudden , your charity fails you ; and you give them up to eternal perdition , without the least regard , the least pity ; and say they deserve not to be considered . our saviour's rule was , the sick , and not the whole , need a physician . your rule here is , those that are careless are not to be considered , but are to be lest to themselves . this would seem strange , if one did not observe what drew you to it . you perceiv'd that if the magistrate was to use no punishments but such as would make no body change their religion , he was to use none at all : for the careless would be brought to the national church , with any sl●…ght punishments ; and when they are once there , you are , it seems , satisfied , and look no further after them . so that by your own measures , if the careless , and those who have no concern for their eternal salvation , are to be regarded and taken care of ; if the salvation of their souls is to be promoted there is to be no punishments used at all : and therefore you leave them out as not to be considered . there remains yet one thing to be enquired into , concerning the measure of the punishments , and that is the length of their duration . moderate punishments that are continued , that men find no end of , know no way out of , sit heavy , and become immoderately uneasie . dissenters you would have punished , to make them consider . your penalties have had the effect on them you intended ; they have made them consider ; and they have done their utmost in considering . what now must be done with them ? they must be punish'd on ; for they are still dissenters . if it were just , if you had reason at first to punish a dissenter , to make him consider , when you did not know but that he had considered already ; it is as just , and you have as much reason to punish him on , even when he has perform'd what your punishments was designed for , when he has considered , but yet remains a dissenter . for i may justly suppose , and you must grant , that a man may remain a dissenter , after all the consideration your moderate penalties can bring him to ; when we see greater punishments , even those severities you disown , as too great , are not able to make men consider so far as to be convinced , and brought over to the national church . if your punishments may not be inflicted on men , to make them consider , who have or may have considered already for ought you know ; then dissenters are never to be once punished , no more than any other sort of men i●… dissenters are to 〈◊〉 punished , to make them consider , whether they have considered or no ; then their punishments , tho they do consider , must never cease , as long as they are dissenters ; which whether it be to pun●…sh them only to bring them to consider , let all men judg . this i am sure ; punishments , in your method , must either never begin upon dissenters , or never cease . and so pre●…end , moderation as you please , the punishments which your method requires , must be either very immoderate , or none at all . and now , you having yielded to our author , and that upon very good reasons which you your self urge , and which i shall set down in your own words , that to prosecute men with fi●…e and sword , or to d●…prive them of their estates , to maim them with ●…ral punishments , to starve and t●…rture them in noisom prisons , and in the end even to take away their lives , to make them christians , is but an ●…ll way of expressing mens desire of the salvation of th●…se wh●…m they treat in this manner . and that it will be very difficult to pers●…ade men of sense , that he who with dry eyes and satisfaction of mind can deliver his brother to the executioner , to be burnt alive , does sincerely and heartily concern himself to save that brother from the flames of hell in the world to c●…me . and that these methods are so very impr●…per , in respect to the design of them , that they usually pr●…duce the quite contrary effect . for whereas all the use which force can have for the advancing true religion , and the salvation of souls , is ( as has already been ●…wed ) by disposing men to submit to instruction , and to give a fair hearing to the reasons which are off●…red , for the enlightning their minds , and discovering the truth to them ; these cruelties have the misfortune to be commonly look'd upon as so just a prejudice against any religion that uses them , as makes it needless to look any further into it ; and to tempt men to reject it , as both false and detestable , without ever v●…ucbsafing to consider the rational grounds and motives of it . this effect they seldom sail to work upon the sufferers of them ; and as to the spectators , if they be not before-hand well instructed in those grounds and motives , they will be much tempted likewise , not only to entertain the same opinion of such a religion , but withal to judg much more favourably of that of the sufferers ; who they will be apt to think , would not exp●…se themselves to such extremities , which they might avoid by compliance , if they were not throughly satisfied of the justice of their cause . and upon these reasons you conclude , that these severities are utterly unapt and improper for the bringing men to embrace that truth which must save them . again , you having acknowledged , that the authority of the magistrate is not an authority to compel any one to his religion . and again , that the rigor of laws , and force of penalties are not capable to convince and change mens minds . and yet further , that you do not require that men should have no rule , but the religion of the court ; or that they should be put under a necessity to quit the light of their own reason , and oppose the dictates of their own consciences , and blindly resign up themselves to the will of their governors ; but that the power you ascribe to the magistrate , is given him to bring m●…n not to his own , but to the true religion now you having , i say , granted this ; whereby you directly condemn and abolish all laws that have been made here , or any where else ( that ever i heard of ) to compel men to conformity , i think the author , and whosoever else are most for liberty of conscience , might be content with the toleration you allow , by condemning the laws about religion , now in force ; and rest satisfied , until you had made your new method consistent and practicable , by telling the world plainly and directly ; . who are to be punished . . for what . . with what punishments . . how long . . what advantage to true religion it would be , if magistrates every where did so punish . . and lastly , whence the magistrate had commission to do so . when you have done this plainly and intelligibly , without keeping in the uncertainty of general expressions , and without supposing all along your church in the right , and your religion the true ; ( which can no more be allow'd to you in this case , whatever your church or religion be , than it can be to a papist or a lutheran , a presbyterian , or an anabaptist ; nay no more to you , than it can be allowid to a jew or a mahometan ) ; when , i say , you have by setling these points , fram'd the parts of your new engine , set it together , and shew'd that it will work , without doing more harm than good in the world ; i think then men may be content to submit to it . but imagining this , and an engine to shew the perpetual motion , will be found out together ; i think toleration in a very good state , notwithstanding your answer ; wherein you having said so much for it , and for ought i see , nothing against it ; unless an impracticable chimera be , in your opinion , something mightily to be apprehended . we have now seen and examined the main of your treatise ; and therefore i think i might here end , without going any farrher . but , that you may not think your self or any of your arguments neglected , i will go over the remainder , and give you my thoughts on every thing i shall meet with in it , that seems to need any answer . in one place you argue against the author thus : if then the author's fourth proposition , as you call it , viz. that force is of no use for promoting true religion and the salvation of souls , be not true ( as perhaps by this time it appears it is not ) then the last proposition , which is built upon it , must fall with it : which last proposition is this , viz. that no body can have any right to use any outward force or compulsion , to bring men to the true religion , and so to salvation . if this proposition were built , as you alledg , upon that which you call his fourth , then indeed if the fourth fell , this built upon it would fall with it . but that not being the author's proposition , ( as i have shew'd ) nor this built wholly on it , but on other reasons , ( as i have already prov'd , and any one may see in several parts of his letter , particularly p. , , and . ) what you alledg falls of it self . the business of the next paragraph is to prove , that if force be useful , then somebody must certainly have a right to use it . the first argument you go about to prove it by , is this , that usefulness is as good an argument to prove there is somewhere a right to use it , as uselessness is to prove no body has such a right . if you consider the things of whose usefulness or uselessness we are speaking , you will perhaps be of another mind . it is punishment , or force used in punishing . now all punishment is some evil , some inconvenience , some suffering ; by taking away or abridging some good thing , which he who is punished has otherwise a right to . now to justifie the bringing any such evil upon any man , two things are requisite . first , that he who does it has commission and power so to do . secondly , that it be directly useful for the procuring some greater good . whatever punishment one man uses to another , without these two conditions , whatever he may pretend , proves an injury and injustice , and so of right ought to have been let alone . and therefore , though usefulness ( which is one of the conditions that makes punishments just ) when it is away , may hinder punishments from being lawful in any bodies hands ; yet usefulness , when present ( being but one of those conditions ) cannot give the other , which is a commission to punish ; without which also punishment is unlawful . from whence it follows , that tho useless punishment be unlawful from any hand ; yet useful punishment from every hand is not lawful . a man may have the stone , and it may be useful ( more than indirectly and at a distance useful ) to him to be cut ; but yet this usefulness will not justifie the most skilful chirurgeon in the world , by force to make him endure the pain and hazard of cutting ; because he has no commission , no right , without the patients own consent to do so . nor is it a good argument , cutting will be useful to him ; therefore there is a right somewhere to cut him , whether he will or no. much less will there be an argument for any right , if there be only a possibility that it may prove useful indirectly and by accident . your other argument is this ; if force or punishment be of necessary use , then it must be acknowledged , that there is a right somewhere to use it ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) , that the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things has not furnished mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . if your way of arguing be true ; 't is demonstration , that force is not of necessary use . for i argue thus , in your form . we must acknowledg force not to be of necessary use ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise disposer and governour of all things did not , for above years after christ , furnish his church with competent means for promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . 't is for you to consider whether these arguments be conclusive or no. this i am sure ; the one is as conclusive as the other . but if your supposed usefulness places a right somewhere to use it , pray tell me in whose hands it places it in turky , persia , or china , or any country where christians of d●…fferent churches live under a heathen or mahometan sovereign ? and if you cannot tell me in whose hands it places it there , ( as i believe you will find it pretty hard to do ) there are then ( it seems ) some places where ( upon your supposition of the necessary usefulness of force ) the wise and benign governour and disposer of all things , has not furnish'd m●…n with competent means for promoting his own honour , and the good of souls ; unless you will grant , that the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things , bath for the pr●…moting of his honour , and the good of souls , placed a power in mah metan or heathen princes , to punish christians , to bring them to consider reasons and arguments proper to convince them . but this is the advantage of so sine an invention , as that of force d●…ing some service indirectly and at a distance ; which usefulness , if we may believe you , places a right in mahometan or pagan princes hands , to use force upon christians ; for fear lest mankind , in those countries , should be unfurnish'd with means for the promoting god's honour and the good of souls . for thus you argue ; if there be so great use of force , then there is a right somewhere to use it . and if there be such a right somewhere , where should it be but in the civil sovereign ? who can deny now , but that you have taken care , great care , for the promoting of truth and the christian religion ? but yet it is as hard for me , i consess , and i believe for others , to conceive how you should think to do any service to truth and the christian religion , by putting a right into mahometans or heathens hands to punish christians ; as it was for you to conceive how the author should think to do any service to truth , and the christian religion , by exempting the professors of it from punishment every where ; since there are more ●…agan , mahometan , and erroneous princes in the world , than orthodox ; truth , and the christian religion ( taking the world as we find it ) is sure to be more punished and suppress'd , than error and falshood . the author having endeavour'd to shew that no body at all , of any rank or condition , had a power to punish , torment , or use any man ill , for matters of religion ; you tell us you do not yet understand why clergy-men are not as capable of such power as other men. i do not remember that the author any where , by excepting eccles●…sticks more than others , g●…ve you any occasion to shew your concern in this point . had he ●…seen that this would have touch'd you so nearly , and that you set your h●…t so much upon the lergys power of punishing ; 't is like h●… 〈◊〉 have told you , he thought eccles●…sticks as capable of it as any men ; and that if forwardness and diligence in the exercise of such power may recommend any to it , clergy-men in the opinion of the world stand sairest for it . however , you do well to put in your claim for them , tho the author excludes them no more than their neighbours . nay , they must be allow'd the pretence of the fairest title . for i never read of any se●…es that were to bring men to christ , but those of the law of m●… ; which is therefore call'd a ped●…gue . ( gal. . ) and the next verse tells us , that aft●…r that faith is c●…e , 〈◊〉 are no longer under a school-master . but yet if we are still to be driven to christ by a rod , i shall not envy them the pleasure of wi●…ng it : only 〈◊〉 desire them , when they have got the scourge into their hands , to remember our saviour , and sollow his example , who never us'd it but once ; and that they would , like him , imploy it only to drive vile and seand●…ons trasikers for the things of this world out of their church , r●…ther than to drive whoever they can into it . whether that latter be not a proper method to make their church what our saviour there pronounced of the ●…emple , they who use it were best look . for in matters of religion , none are so easy to be so driven , as those who have nothing of religion at all ; and next to them , the vicious , the ignorant , the worldling , and the hypocrite ; who care for no more of religion but the name , nor no more of any church , but its prosperity and power ; and who , not unlike those describ'd by our saviour , luke . . ) for a shew come to , or cry up the prayers of the church , that they may dev●…ur widows , and other helpless people's houses . i say not this of the serious professors of any church , who are in earnest in matters of religion . such i value , who conscientiously , and out of a sincere perswasion , imbrace any religion , tho different from mine , and in a way , i think , mistaken . but no body can have reason to think otherwise than what i have said , of those who are wrought upon to be of any church , by secular hopes and fears . those truly , place trade above all other considerations , and merchandize with religion it self , who regulate their choice by worldly profit and loss . you endeavour to prove , against the author , that civil society is not instituted only for civil ends , i. e. the procuring , preserving , and advancing mens civil interests . your words are : i must say , that our author does but beg the question , when he affirms that the commonwealth is constituted only for the procuring , preserving , and advancing of the civil interests of the members of it . that commonwealths are instituted for these ends , no man will deny . but if there be any other ends besides these , attainable by the civil society and government , there is no reason to affirm , that these are the only ends , for which they are designed . doubtless common-wealths are instituted for the attaining of all the benefits which political government can yield . and therefore , if the spiritual and eternal interests of men may any way be procured or advanced by political government , the procuring and advancing those interests must in all reason be reckon'd among the ends of civil societies , and so , consequently , fall within the compass of the magistrates jurisdiction . i have set down your words at large , to let the reader see , that you of all men had the least reason to tell the author he does but beg the question ; unless you mean to justify your self by the pretence of his example . you argue thus . if there be any other ends attainable by civil society , then civil interests are not the only ends for which commonwealths are instituted . and how do you prove there be other ends ? why thus . doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the benefits which political government can yeild . which is as clear a demonstration , as doubtless can make it to be . the question is , whether civil society be instituted only for civil ends ? you say , no ; and your proof is , because , doubtless , it is instituted for other ends. if i now say , doubtless this is a good argument ; is not every one bound without more ado to admit it for such ? if not , doubtless you are in danger to be thought to beg the question . but notwithstanding you say here , that the author begs the question ; in the following page you tell us , that the author offer three considerations which seem to him abundantly to demonstrate , that the civil power neither can , nor ought in any manner to be extended to the salvation of souls . he does not then beg the question . for the question being , whether civil interest be the only end of civil society , he gives this reason for the negative ; that civil power has nothing to do with the salvation of souls ; and offers three considerations for the proof of it . for it will always be a good consequence , that , if the civil power has nothing to do with the salvation of souls , then civil interest is the only end of civil society . and the reason of it is plain ; because a man having no other interest , but either in this world , or the world to come ; if the end of civil society reach not to a man's interest in the other world , ( all which is comprehended in the salvation of his soul ) 't is plain , that the sole end of civil society is civil interest , under which the author comprehends the good things of this world. and now let us examine the truth of your main position , viz. that civil society is instituted for the attaining all the benefits that it may any way yeild . which , if true , then this position must be true , viz. that all societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the benefits that they may any way yeild ; there being nothing peculiar to civil society in the case , why that society should be instituted for the attaining all the benefits it can any way yeild , and other societies not . by which argument it will follow , that all societies are instituted for one and the same end : i. e. for the attaining all the benefits that they can any way yeild . by which account there will be no difference between church and state ; a commonwealth and an army ; or between a family and the east-india company ; all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of societies , instituted for different ends. if your hypothesis hold good , one of the ends of the family must be to preach the gospel , and administer the sacraments ; and one business of an army to teach languages , and prop●…gate religion ; because these are benefits some way or other attainable by those societies : unless you take want of commission and authority to be a sufficient impediment : and that will be so too in other cases . 't is a benefit to have true knowledg and philosophy imbraced and assented to , in any civil society or government . but will you say , therefore , that it is a benefit to the society , or one of the ends of government , that all who are not peripateticks should be punished , to make men find out the truth , and prosess it . this indeed might be thought a fit way to make some men imbrace the peripatetick philosophy , but not a proper way to find the truth . for , perhaps the peripatetick philosophy may not be true ; perhaps a great many have not time , nor parts to study it ; perhaps a great many who have studied it , cannot be convinced of the truth of it : and therefore it cannot be a benefit to the commonwealth , nor one of the ends of it , that these members of the society should be disturb'd , and diseas'd to no purpose , when they are guilty of no fault . for just the same reason , it cannot be a benefit to ●…ivil society , that men should be pun shed in denmark , for not being lu●…rans ; in geneva , for not being calvinists ; and in vi●…nna , for not being papists ; as a means to make them find out the true religion . for so , upon your grounds , men most be treated in those places , as well as in england , for not being of the church of england . and then , i beseech you , consider the great benefit will accrue to men in society by this method ; and i suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove , that ever civil governments were instituted to pun●…sh men for not being of this , or that sect in religion ; however by accident , indirectly , and at a distance , it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand , or an hundred , to study that controversy , which is all you expect from it . if it be a benefit , pray tell me what benefit it is . a civil benefit it cannot be . for mens civil interests are disturb'd , injur'd , and impair'd by it . and what spiritual benefit that can be to any multitude of men , to be pun●…shed for dissenting from a false or erroneous prosession , i would have you sind out : unless it be a spiritual benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way . for if in all differing sects , one is in the wrong , 't is a hundred to one but that from which one dissents , and is punished for dissenting from , is the wrong . i grant it is past doubt , that the nature of man is so covetous of good , that no one would have excluded from any action he does , or from any institution he is concerned in , any manner of good or benefit , that it might any way yeild . and if this be your meaning , it will not be denied you . but then you speak very improperly , or rather very mistakenly , if you call such benefits as may any way ( i. e. indirectly , and at a distance or by accident ) be attain'd by civil or any other society , the ends for which it is instituted . nothing can in reason be reckon'd amongst the ends of any s●…ty , but what may in reason be supposed to be designed by those who enter into it . ●…ow no body can in reason suppose , that any one ent●…ed into civil society for the procuring , securing , or advancing the salvation of his soul●… when he , for that end , needed not the force of civil society . the procuring , therefore , s●…ing , and advancing the spiritual and e●…ernal interest of men , cannot in reason be reckon'd amongst the ends of civil societies ; tho perhaps it might so fall out , that in some particular instance , some mans spiritual interest might be advanced by your or any other way of applying civil force . a nobleman , whose chappel is decayed or ●…allen , may make ●…se of his dining-room for praying and preaching . yet whatever 〈◊〉 were attainable by this use of the room , no body can in reason reckon this among the ends for which it was built ; no more than the accidental breeding of some bird in any part of it ( tho it were a benefit it yielded ) could in reason be reckon'd among the ends of building the house . but , say you , doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the b●…nefits which pelitical government can yield ; and therefore if the spiritual and et●…rnal interests of men may any way be procur'd or advanc'd by p●…litical government , the procuring and advancing those interests , must in all reason be reck●…n'd amongst the e●…ds of civil s●…ciety , and so con●…quently fall within the compass of the magistrates jurisdiction . upon the same grounds , i thus reason . doubtless churches are instituted ●…or the attaining of all the benefits which ecclesiastical government can yield : and therefore , if the temporal and secular interests ●…f men ma●… any way be procured or advanced by ecclesiastic●…l pol●…y , the 〈◊〉 and advancing those interests , must in all reason be reckoned among the ends of religious societies , and so consequently fall within the compass of church-mens jurisdiction . the church of rome has openly made its advantage of secular interests to be precured or advanced , indirectly and at a distance , and in ord●…e ad spiritualia ; all which ways ( if i mistake not english ) are comprehended under your any way . but i do not remember that any of the reformed churches have hitherto directly professed it . but there is a time for all things . and if the commonwealth once invades the spiritual ends of the church , by medling with the salvation of souls , ( which she has alway been so tender of ) who can deny , that the church should have liberty to make her self some amends by reprisals ? but , sir , however you and i may argue from wrong suppositions , yet unless the apostle , ( eph. ; ) where he reckons up the church-officers which christ had instituted in his churh , had told us they were for some other ends than for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ ; the advancing of their secular interests will scarce be allow'd to be their business , or within the compass of their jurisdiction . nor till it can be shewn that civil society is instituted for spiritual ends , or that the magistrate has commission to interpose his authority , or use force in matters of religion ; your supposition of spiritual benefits indirectly and at a distance attainable by political government , will never prove the advancing of those interests by force , to be the magistrates business , and to fall within the compass of his jurisdiction . and till then , the force of the arguments which the author has brought against it , ( in the th and following pages of his letter ) will hold good . common-wealths , or civil societies and governments , if you will believe the judicious mr. hooker , are as st. peter calls them ( pet. . . ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the contrivance and institution of man ; and he shews there for what end ; viz. for the punishment of evil doers , and the praise of them that do well . i do not find any where , that it is for the punishment of those who are not in church communion with the magistrate , to make them study controversies in religion , or hearken to those who will tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to show them the right one . you must shew them such a commission , if you say it is from god. and in all societies instituted by man , the ends of them can be no other than what the institutors appointed ; which i am sure could not be their spiritual and eternal interest . for they could not stipulate about these one with another , nor submit this interest to the power of the society , or any sovereign they they should set over it . there are nations in the west-indies which have no other end of their society , but their mutual defence against their common ●…ies . in these , their captain , or prince , is sovereign commander in time of war ; but in time of peace , neither ne nor ●…y body else has any authority over any of the society . you cannot deny but other , even temporal ends , are attainable by these commonwealths , if they had been otherwise instituted and appointed to those ends . but all your saying , doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the benefits which they can yield , will not give authority to any one , or more , in such a society , by political government or force , to procure directly or indirectly other benefits than that for which it was instituted : and therefore , there it falls not within the compass of those princes jurisdiction to punish any one of the society for injuring another ; because he has no commission so to do ; whatever reason you may think there is , that that should be reckoned amongst the ends of their society . but to conclude : your argument has that desect in it which turns it upon your self . and that is , that the procuring and advancing the spiritual and eternal interest of souls , your way , is not a benefit to the society : and so , upon your own supposition , the procuring and advancing the spiritual interest of souls , any way , cannot be one of the ends of civil society ; unless the procuring and advancing the spiritual interest of souls , in a way proper to do more harm than good towards the salvation of souls , be to be accounted such a benefit as to be one of the ends of civil societies . for that yours is such a way , i have proved already . so that were it hard to prove that political government , whose only instrument is force , could no way by force ( however applied ) more advance than hinder the spiritual and eternal interest of men ; yet having prov'd it against your particular new way of applying force , i have sufficiently vindicated the author's doctrine from any thing you have said against it . which is enough for my present purpose . your next page tells us , that this reasoning of the author , viz. that the power of the magistrate cannot be ex●…ended to the salvation of souls , because the care of souls is not committed to the magistrate ; is proving the thing by it self . as if you should say , when i tell you that you could not extend your power to meddle with the money of a young gentleman you travelled with , as tutor , because the care of his money was not committed to you , were proving the thing by it self . for it is not necessary that you should have the power of his money ; it may be intrusted to a steward who travels with him ; or it may be left to himself . if you have it , it is but a delegated power . and in all delegated powers , i thought this a fair proof ; you have it not , or cannot use it , ( which is what the author means here by extended to ) because it is not committed to you . in the summing up of this argument , ( p. . ) the author says , no body therefore , in fine , neither common-wealths , &c. hath any title to invade the civil rights and worldly goods of another , upon pretence of r●…ligion . which is an exposition of what he means in the beginning of the argument , by the magistrates power cannot be extended to the salvation of souls . so that if we take these last cited words equivalent to those in the former place , his pr●…of will stand thus . the magistrate has no title to invade the civil rights or worldly goods of any one , upon pretence of religion ; because the care of souls is not committed to him . this is the same in the author's sense with the former . and whether either this , or that , be a proving the same thing by it self , we must leave to others to judg . you quote the ●…uthor's argument , which he brings to prove that the care of souls is not committed to the magistrate , in these words . it is not committed to him by god , because it appears not that god has ever given any such authority to one man over another , as to compel any one to his religion . this when first i read it , i confess i thought a good argument . but you say this is quite besides the business ; and the reason you give , is ; for the authority of the magistrate is not an authority to compel any one to his religion , but only an authority to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation , and to procure withal , as much as in him lies . that none remain ignorant of it , &c. i fear sir , you forget your self . the author was not writing against your new hypothesis , before it was known in the world. he may be excused if he had not the gift of prophecy , to argue against a notion which was not yet started . he had in view only the laws hitherto made , and the punishments ( in matters of religion ) in use in the world . the penalties , as i take it , are lain on men for being of different ways of religion . which , what is it other , but to compel them to relinquish their own , and to conform themselves to that from which they differ ? if this be not to compel them to the magistrates religion , pray tell●… us what is ? this must be necessarily so understood ; unless it can be supposed that the law intends not to have that done , which with penalies it commands to be done ; or that punishments are not compulsion , not that compulsion the author complains of . the law says , do this and live ; embrace this doctrine , conform to this way of worship , and be at ease , and free ; or else be fined , imprisoned , banished , burnt . if you can shew among the laws that have been made in england , concerning religion , ( and i think i may say any-where else ) any one that punishes men for not having impartially examin'd the religion they have imbraced , or refus'd , i think i may yield you the cause . law-makers have been generally wiser than to make laws that could not be executed : and therefore their laws were against nonconformists , which could be known ; and not for impartial examination , which could not . 't was not then besides the author's business , to bring an argument against the persecutions here in fashion . he did not know that any one , who was so free as to acknowledg that the magistrate has not an authority to compel any one to his religion , and thereby at once ( as you have done ) give up all the laws now in force against dissenters , had yet rods in store for them , and by a new trick would bring them under the lash of the law , when the old pretences were too much exploded to serve any longer . have you never heard of such a thing as the religion establish'd by law ? which is , it seems , the lawful religion of a countrey , and to be comply'd with as such . there being such things , such notions , yet in the world ; it was not quite besides the author's business to alledge , that god never gave such authority to one man over another as to compel any one to his religion . i will grant , if you please , religion establish'd by law is a pretty odd way of speaking , in the mouth of a christian ; ( and yet it is much in fashion ) as if the magistrate's authority could add any force or sanction to any religion , whether true or false . i am glad to find you have so far considered the magistrate's authority , that you agree with the author , that he hath none to compel men to his religion . much less can he , by any establishment of law , add any thing to the truth or validity of his own , or any religion whatsoever . it remains now to examine , whether the author's argument will not hold good , even against punishments in your way . for if the magistrate's authority be , as you here say , only to procure all his subjects , ( mark what you say , all his subjects ) the means of discovering the way of salvation , and to procure withal , as much as in him lies , that none remain ignorant of it , or refuse to embrace it , either for want of using those means , or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual . if this be the magistrate's business , in reference to all his subjects ; i desire you , or any man else , to tell me how this can be done , by the application of force only to a part of them ; unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance , ●…gligence , or prejudice , only amongst that part whi●…h any where d●…ffers from the magistrate . if those of the magistrates church may be ignorant of the way of salvation ; if it be possible there may be amongst them those who refuse to imbrace it , either for want of using those means , or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual ; what , in this case , becomes of the magistrate's authority to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way of sal●…ation ? must these of his subjects be neglected , and lest without the means he has authority to procure them ? or must he ase force upon them too ? and then , pray , shew me how this can be done . shall the magistrate punish those of his own religion , to procur●… them the means of discovering the way of salvation , and to procure as much as in him lies , that they remain nor ignorant of it ; or refuse not to imbrace it ? these are such contradictions in practice , this is such condemnation of a man 's own religion , as no one can expect from the magistrate ; and i dare say you desire not of him . and yet this is that he must do , if his authority ●…e to precure all his subjects the means of discovering the way to salvation . and if it be so needful , as you say it is , that he should use it . i am sure force can●…do that till it be apply'd wider , and punishment be laid upon more than you would have it . for if the magistrate be by force to pricu●…e ; ●…s much as in him lies , that none rem●…gnorant of the way of salvation ; must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of salvation ? and pray tell me how is this any way practicable , but by supposing none in the national church ignorant , and all out of it ignorant of the way of s●…lvation . which , what is it , but to punish men barely for not being of the magistrate's religion ; the very thing you deny he has authority to do ? so that the magistraie having , by your own confession , n●… authority thus to use force ; and it being otherways impract cable for the procuring all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation ; there is an end of force . and so force being laid aside , either as unlawful , or unpracticable , the author's argument holds good against force , even in your way of applying it . but if you say , as you do in the foregoing page , that the magistrate has authority to lay such penalties upon those who refuse to imbrace the doctrine of the proper ministers of religion , and ●…o submit to their spiritual government , as to make them betb●…nk themselv●…s so as not to be ali●…nated from the truth . ( ●…or , as for fo●…lish ●…umour , and uncharitable pr●…judice , &c. which are but words o●… course that opposite parties give one another , as marks of d●…ke and presumption ; i omit them , as signifying nothing to the question ; being such as will with the same reason be retor●…ed by the other side , ) against that also the author's argument holds , that the magistrate has no such authority . st , because god never gave the magistrate an authority to be judg of truth for another man in matters of religion : and so he cannot be judg whether any man be altenated from the truth or no. ●…ly ) , because the magistrate had never authority given him to lay any penaltie●… on those who refuse to imbrace the doctrine of the proper ministers of his religion , ( or of any other ) or to submit to their spiritual government , more than o●… any other men . to the author's argument , that the magistrate cannot receive such authority from the people ; because no man has power to leave it to the choice of any other man to chuse a religion for him ; you give this pleasant answer . as the power of the magi-strate , in reference to religion●… is ordained for the bringing men to take such care as they ought of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice , neither of any other person , nor yet of their own lusts and passi●…ns , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall embrace : so if we suppose this power to be vested in the magistrate by the consent of the people ; this will not 〈◊〉 their abandoning the care of their salvation , but rather the contray●… for if men , in chusing their religion , are so generally subject , as has been showed , when left wholly to th●…es , to be so much ●…way d by prejudice and passion , as either not at all , or not sufficiently to regard the reason●… and motives which ought alone to determine their choice ; then it is every man's true interest , not to be left who●…ly to himself in this matter ; but that care should be taken , tha●…in an affair of so vast concernment to him , be 〈◊〉 be brought even against his own incl●…ation , if it cannot be done otherwise , ( which is ordinarily the case ) to act according to reason an●… sound judgment●… and then what better course can m●…n take to provide for this , than by vesting the power i have described , in him who bears the sword ? wherein i beseech you consider ; st , whether it be not pleasant , that you say the power of the magistrate is orda●…'d to bring men to take such care ; and thence infer , then it is every one's interest to vest such power in the magistrate ? for if it be the power of the magistrate , it is his . and what need the people vest it in him ; unless there be need , and it be the best course they can take , to vest a power in the magistrate , which he has already ? dly , another pleasant thing , you here say , is ; that the power of the magistrates is to bring men to such a care of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any person , or their own lusts , or passions , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace ; and yet that 't is their best course to vest a power in the magistrate , liable to the same lusts and passions as themselves , to chuse for them . for if they vest a power in the magistrate to punish them , when they dissent from his religion ; to bring them to act , even against their own inclination , according to reason and sound judgment ; which is , ( as you explain your self in another place ) to bring them to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them : how far is this from leaving it to the choice of another man to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace ? especially if we consider , that you think it a strange thing , that the author would have the care of every man's soul left to himself alone . so that this care being vested in the magistrate , with a power to punish men to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the truth of his religion ; the choice is evidently in the magistrate ; as much as it can be in the power of one man to chuse for another what religion he shall be of , which consists only in a power of compelling him by punishments to embrace it . i do neither you nor the magistrate injury , when i say that the power you give the magistrate of punishing men , to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them , is to convince them of the truth of his religion , and to bring them to it . for men will never , in his opinion , act according to reason and sound judgment , ( which is the thing you here say men should be brought to by the magistrate , even against their own inclination ) till they imbrace his religion . and if you have the brow of an honest man , you will not say the magistrate will ever punish you , to bring you to consider any other reasons and arguments , but such as are proper to convince you of the truth of his religion , and to bring you to that . thus you shift forwards and backwards . you say the magistrate has no power to punish men , to compel them to his religion ; but only to compel them to consider reasons and arguments proper to convince them of the truth of his religion ; which is all one as to say , no body has power to chuse your way for you to jerusalem ; but yet the lord of the mannor has power to punish you , to bring you to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince you ; ( of what ? ) that the way he goes in , is the right , and so to make you joyn in company , and go along with him . so that , in effect , what is all your going about , but to come at last to the same place again ; and put a power into the magistrate's hands , ( under another pretence ) to compel men to his religion ; which use os force , the author has sufficiently overthrown , and you your self have quitted . but i am tired to follow you so often round the same circle . you speak of it here as the most deplorable condition imaginable , that men should be left to themselves , and not be forced to consider and examine the grounds of their religion , and search impartially and diligently after the truth . this you make the great miscarriage of mankind . and for this you seem solicitous , all through your treatise , to find out a remedy ; and there is scarce a leaf wherein you do not offer yours . but what if , after all , now you should be found to prevaricate ? men have contrived to themselves , say you , a great variety of religions : 't is granted . they seek not the truth in this matter with that application of mind , and that freedom of judgment which is requisite : 't is confessed . all the false religions now on foot in the world , have taken their rise from the slight and partial consideration , which men have contented themselves with , in searching after the true ; and men take them up , and persist in them for want of due examination : be it so . there is need of a remedy for this ; and i have found one whose success cannot be questioned : very well . what is it ? let us hear it . why , dissenters must be punished . can any body , that hears you say so , believe you in earnest ; and that want of examination is the thing you would have amended , when want of examination is not the thing you would have punished ? if want of examination be the fault , want of examination must be punished : if you are , as you pretend , fully satisfied , that punishment is the proper and only means to remedy it . but if , in all your treatise , you can shew me one place , where you say that the ignorant , the careless , the inconsiderate , the negligent in examining throughly the truth of their own and others religion , &c. are to be punished ; i w●…ll allow your remedy for a good one . but you have not said any thing like this ; and which is more , i tell you before hand , you dare not say it . and whilst you do not , the world has reason to judg , that however want of examination be a general fault , which you with great vehemency have exaggerated ; yet you use it only for a pretence to punish dissenters ; and either distrust your remedy , that it will not cure this evil , or else care not to have it generally cur'd . this evidently appears from your whole management of the argument . and he that reads your t●…eatise with attention , will be more confirm'd in this opinion , when he shall find , that you ( who are so earnest to have men punished , to bring them to consider and examine , that so they may discover the way to salvation ) have not said one word of considering , searching , and hearkening to the scripture ; which had been as good a rule for a christian to have sent them to , as to reasons and arguments pr●…per to convince them , of you know not what ; as to the in●…ction and government of the proper ministers of religion , which who they are , men are yet ●…ar from being agreed ; or as to the ●…formation of ●…hose , who tell them they have mistak●…n their way , and offer to shew them the right ; and to the like uncertain and dangerous guides ; wh●…ch were not those that our saviour and the apostles sent men to , but to the scriptures . s●…arch the scriptures , for in them you think you have ●…nal life , says our saviour to the unbelieving persecuting jews . ( 〈◊〉 . ) and 't is the scriptures which st. pauls says , are able to make wise unto salvation . ( 〈◊〉 tim. . . ) talk no more therefore , if you have any care of your reputation , how much it is every man's interest not to be left to himself , without molestation , without punishment in matters of relig●…on . talk not of bringing men to embrace the truth that must save them , by putting them upon examination . talk no more of force and punishment , as the only way left to bring men to examine . 't is evident you mean nothing less . for , tho want of examination be the only fault you complain of , and punishment be in your opinion the only way to bring men to it ; and this the whole design of your book ; yet you have not once proposed in it , that those , who do not impartially examine , should be forced to it . and , that you may not think i talk at random , when i say you dare not ; i will , if you please , give you some reasons for my saying so . first , because , if you propose that all should be punished , who are ignorant , who have not used such consideration as is apt and proper to manifest the truth ; but ●…ave been determined in the choice of their religion by impressions of education , admiration of persons , w●…rldly respects , prejudices , and the like incompetent motives ; and have tak●…n up their religion , without examining it as they ought ; you will propose to have several of your own church ( be it what it will ) p●…nished which would be a proposition too apt to o●…end too many of it , for you to venture on . for whatever need there be of re●…ormation , every one will not thank you for proposing such an one as must begin at ( or at least reach to ) the house of god. secondly , because , if you should propose that all those who are ignorant , careless , and negligent in examining should be punished , you would have little to say in this question of toleration . for if the laws of the state were made as they ought to be , eq●…al to all the subjects , without distinction of ●…en of d●…erent professions in religion ; and the faults to be amended by punishments , were impartially punished , in all who are guilty of them ; this would immediately produce a perfect toleration , or shew the uselesness of force in matters of religion . if therefore you think it so necess●…ry , as you say , for the promoting of t●…ue religion , and the salvation of souls , that me●… sh●…uld be punished to make ●…hem examine ; do but fi●…d a way to apply f●…rce to all that have not throughly and impartially examined , and you have my consent . for tho force be not the proper means of promoting religion ; yet there is no better way to snew the uselesless of it , than the applying it equally to miscarrages , in whomsoever sound ; and not to distinct parties or perswasions of men , for the reformation of them alone , when others are equally faulty . thirdly , because , without being for as large a toleration as the author proposes , you cannot be truely and sincerely for a free and impartial examination . for whoever examines , must have the liberty to judg , and follow his judgment ; or else you put him upon examination to no purpose . and whether that will not as well lead men from , as to your church , is so much a venture , that by your way of writing , 't is evident enough you are loath to hazard it ; and if you are of the national church , 't is plain your brethren will not bear with you in the allowance of such a liberty . you must therefore either change your method ; and if the want of examination be that great and dangerous fault you would have corrected , you must equally punish all that are equally guilty of any neglect in this matter , and then take your only means , your beloved force , and make the best of it ; or else you must put off your mask , and confess that you design not your punishments to bring men to examination , but to conformity . for the fallacy you have used , is too gross to pass upon this age. what follows to page . i think i have considered sufficiently already . but there you have found out something worth notice . in this page , out of abundant kindness , when the dissenters have their heads ( without any cause ) broken , you provide them a plaister . for , say you , if upon such examination of the matter , ( i. e. brought to it by the magistrates punishment ) they chance to find , that the truth does not lie on the magistrate's side ; they have gain'd thus much however , even by the magistrate's misapplying his power , that they know better than they did before , where the truth does lye . which is as true , as if you should say ; upon examination i find such a one is out of the way to york ; therefore i know better than i did before , that i am in the right . for neither of you may be in the right . this were true indeed , if there were but two ways in all ; a right and a wrong . but where there be an hundred ways , and but one right ; your knowing upon examination , that that which i take is wrong , makes you not know any thing better than before , that yours is the right . but if that be the best reason you have for it , 't is ninety eight to one still against you , that you are in the wrong . besides , he that has been punished , may have examin'd before , and then you are sure he gains nothing . however , you think you do well to incourage the magistate in punishing , and comfort the man who has suffer'd unjustly , by shewing what he shall gain by it . whereas , on the contrary , in a discourse of this nature , where the bounds of right and wrong are enquired into , and should be established , the magistrate was to be shew'd the bounds of his authority , and warn'd of the injury he did when he misapplies his power , and punish'd any man who deserv'd it not ; and not be sooth'd into injustice , by consideration of gain that might thence accrue to the sufferer . shall we do evil that good may come of it ? there are a sort of people who are very wary of touching upon the magistrate's duty , and tender of shewing the bounds of his power , and the injustice and ill consequences of his misapplying it ; at least , so long as it is misapply'd in favour of them , and their party . i know not whether you are of their number . but this i am sure ; you have the misfortune here to fall into their mistake . the magistrate , you confess , may in this case misapply his power ; and instead of representing to h●…m the injustice of it , and the account he must give to his sovereign one day of this great trust put into his hands for the equal protection of all his subjects : you pretend advantages which the sufferer may receive from it : and so instead of disheartning from , you give incouragement to , the mischief . which , upon your principle , join'd to the natural thirst in man after arbitrary power , may be carried to all manner of exorbitancy , with some pretence of right . for thus stands your system . if force , i e. punishment , may be any way useful for the promoting the salvation of souls , there is a right somewhere to use it . and this right ( say you ) is in the magistrate . who then , upon your grounds , may quickly find reason , where it suits his inclination , or serves his turn , to punish men directly to bring them to his religion . for if he may use force , because it may be , indirectly and at a distance , any way , useful towards the salvation of souls , towards the procuring any degree of glory ; why may he not , by the same rule , use it where it may be useful , at least indirectly , and at a distance , towards the procuring a greater degree of glory ? for st. paul assures us , that the afflictions of this life work for us a far more exceeding weight of glory . so that why should they not be punished , if in the wrong , to bring them into the right way ; if in the right , to make them by their sufferings gainers of a far more exceeding weight of glory ? but whatever you say of punishment being lawful , because indirectly , and at a distance it may be useful ; i suppose , upon cooler thoughts , you will be apt to suspect that , however sufferings may promote the salvation of those who make a good use of them , and so set men surer in the right way , or higher in a state of glory ; yet those who make men unduly suffer , will have the heavier account , and greater weight of guilt upon them , to sink them deeper in the pit of perdition ; and that therefore they should be warn'd to take take care of so using their power . because whoever be gainers by it , they themselves will ( without repentance and amendment ) be sure to be losers . but by granting that the magistrate misapplies his power , when he punishes those who have the right on their side , whether it be to bring them to his own religion , or whether it be to bring them to consider reasons and arguments proper to convince them , you grant all that the author contends for . all that he endeavours , is to shew the bounds of civil power ; and that in punishing others for religion , the magistrate misapplies the force he has in his hands , and so goes beyond right , beyond the limits of his power . for i do not think the author of the letter so vain ( i am sure for my part i am not ) as to hope by arguments , though never so clear , to reform presently all the abuses in this matter ; especially whilst men of art , and religion , endeavour so industriously to palliate and disguise , what truth , yet , sometimes , unawares forces from them . do not think , i make a wrong use of your saying , the magistrate misapplies his power , when i say you therein grant all that the author contends for . for if the magistrate misapplies , or makes a wrong use of his power , when he punishes in matters of religion any one who is in the right , though it be but to make him consider , ( as you grant he does ) he also misapplies , or makes wrong use of his power , when he punishes any one , whomsoever in matters of religion , to make him consider . for every one is here judg for himself , what is right ; and in matters of faith , and religious worship , another cannot judg for him . so that to punish any one in matters of religion , tho it be but to make him consider , is by your own confession beyond the magistrate's power . and that punishing in matters of religion is beyond the magistrate's power , is what the author contends for . you tell us in the following words ; all the hurt that comes to them by it , is only the suffering some tolerable inconveniences , for their foll●…ing the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences ; which certainly is no such mischief to mankind , as to make it more elegible , that there should be no such power vested in the magistrate , but the care of every man's soul should be left to himself alone , ( as this author demands it should be : ) that is , that every man should be suffer'd , quietly , and without the least molestation , either to take no care at all of his soul , if he be so pleased ; or in doing it , to follow his own groundless prejudices , or unaccountable humour , or any crafty seducer , whom he may think fit to take for his guide . why should not the care of every man's soul be left to himself , rather than the magistrate ? is the magistrate like to be more concern'd for it ? is the magistrate like to take more care of it ? is the magistrate commonly more careful of his own , than other men are of theirs ? will you say the magistrate is less expos'd in matters of religion , to prejudices , humours , and crafty seducers , than other men ? if you cannot lay your hand upon your heart , and say all this ; what then will be got by the change ? and why may not the care of every man's soul be left to himself ? especially , if a man be in so much danger to miss the truth , who is suffer'd quietly , and without the least molestation , either to take no care of his soul , if he be so pleased , or to follow his own prejudices , &c. for if want of molestation be the dangerous state , wherein men are likeliest to miss the right way ; it must be confessed , that of all men , the magistrate is most in danger to be in the wrong , and so the unfittest ( if you take the care of mens souls from themselves ) of all men , to be intrusted with it . for he never meets with that great and only antidote of yours against error , which you here call molestation . he never has the benefit of your sovereign remedy , punishment , to make him consider ; which you think so necessary , that you look on it as a most dangerous state for men to be without it ; and therefore tell us , 't is every man's true interest , not to be left wholly to himself in matters of religion . thus , sir , i have gone through your whole treatise , and as i think , have omitted nothing in it material . if i have , i doubt not but i shall hear of it . and now i refer it to your self , as well as to the judgment of the world , whether the author of the letter , in saying no body hath a right ; or you , in saying , the magistrate hath a right to use force in matters of religion ; has most reason . in the mean time , i leave this request with you . that if ever you write again , about the means of bringing souls to salvation , ( which certainly is the best design any one can imploy his pen in ) you would take care not to prejudice so good a cause , by ordering it so , as to make it look as if you writ for a party . i am , sir , your most humble servant , philanthropus . may . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pag. , , . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . mark . . pag. . pag. . ezek. . , . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , , , , . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . p. . p. , . p. . p. , p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . a testimony for truth against all hireling priests and deceivers with a cry to the inhabitants of this nation to turn to the lord before his dreadful judgments overtake them : also a testimony against all observers of times and dayes. boulbie, judith. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a testimony for truth against all hireling priests and deceivers with a cry to the inhabitants of this nation to turn to the lord before his dreadful judgments overtake them : also a testimony against all observers of times and dayes. boulbie, judith. boulbie, judith. a testimony against all observers of times and dayes. p. s.n., [london : ?] signed at end: judith boulbie. imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. fasts and feasts -- england. conduct of life. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - celeste ng sampled and proofread - celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a testimony for truth against all hireling-priests and deceivers : with a cry to the inhabitants of this nation , to turn to the lord , before his dreadful judgments overtake them . also a testimony against all observers of times and dayes . o ye priests and bishops of this nation , the lord god that made heaven and earth is a witness for me this day , i have no evil in my heart to any of you , but in love to your souls ; and in the bowels of tender compassion am i constrained to cry out against your ungodly gaines ; for gods day is come , and wo to all the workers of iniquity . o ye bishops and priests of this nation , ye have for a long time covered your selves with the name of christ's ministers , but now your covering is too narrow , and your profession will not hide you ; for the light of christ is risen , and with it you are judged and condemned , and seen to be enemies to the the cross of christ , and strangers to the covenant of promise ; being in cains way , who slew his brother about religion ; and in balaams way , who loved the wages of unrighteousness , therefore i say , leave off your deceit , and keep the people no longer in your dark forms ; but let them have liberty to worship god in spirit and truth ; for the time is come , that every man need not teach his neighbour or his brother , saying , know the lord ; for every one must know him from the least to the greatest . yea , gods second covenant of light and glory is made manifest , i will forgive their sins , and remember their iniquities no more ; i 'll be to them a god , and they shall be my people : o ye blind guides , will ye seek to dissannul this ? will ye seek to stop the lords work in this the day of his power ? ye are but as bryars and thorns , who are setting your selves together against him , who is a consuming fire , and is risen to consume you , and all your false doctrine ( if ye repent not . ) therefore i say again and again , leave off your deceit , and come to the teaching of gods witness in your own perticulars : for this is the day that god is pouring forth of his spirit , and his sons and his daughters do prophesie ; for there is no more room for deceit . why take ye christs words in your mouths , and hate to be reform'd ? why talk ye of the scriptures , and are err'd from the spirit that gave them forth ? ye are gone from the practice of christ , and of the apostle : did ever peter , paul , james , john , or any of christs ministers , keep curates to get money ? did they ever sue any man for lambs , piggs , hens , or geese ? did they ever hale any to the courts , and to prison ? nay , was not this the testimony of him that was called to the ministry , cor. . . ( saith he ) a necessity is laid upon me to preach the gospel , and wo be unto me if i preach it not ; i have coveted no mans silver , nor gold , nor apparrel ; but have laboured with these hands , day and night , that i should not be chargeable to any man ? and was not this christs doctrine , do good to them that hate you , bless them that curse you ; if any sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat , let him have thy cloak also ; he that smites thee on the one side , turn to him the other ? matthew . . . oh! blush for shame , and t●ade no more with the scriptures ; for they testifie against you , to your condemnation , ye hireling-shepherds : have you brought any lambs to christs fold ? have ye brought any of your hearers into the pleasant valleys , where the springs of life are to be felt ? nay : are they not wandring in the imaginations of their own hearts , and many of them dissatisfied , thirsting after the bread of life , but know not where to find it , while you are eating the fat , and clothing your selves with the fleece ; and putting the day of the lord far from you , when many of gods faithful servants , whom he hath called to labour in his vine-yard , are exercised with strong cryes to the god that made heaven and earth , that he may turn away his judgments , and revoak his destroying angel , and spare this nation , which otherwise will feel an heavy stroke of gods hand ▪ if they repent not . and though you live in pride and excess , spending your pretious time in vanity and pleasure , eating and drinking with the drunken , and say in your hearts , the lord delays his coming ; but know , that for all these things ye must come to judgment : for of a truth , ye priests and people of this nation , the lord will turn your feasting into fasting , and your mirth into lamentation ; he will fill you with terror , and amazement : though you have had plenty and fulness , your barns and store-houses must become empty ; because of these things i weep , sorrow hath filled mine heart , and mine eyes run down with water : what shall i say to prevail with thee , o england ? must thou needs be left desolate ? where are thy wise and prudent ? where are thy divines ( so called ? ) there is a seed raised , and a birth brought forth , which will confound them all ; the promised seed is come , christ is risen , and unto him must the gathering of the people be : for though the world cry out , no perfection ( and the hireling-shepherds , no redemption on this side the grave ) yet i say , there is a birth brought forth , which will naturally do the will of god , as ever man did his own will. but o ye people of this nation , are ye willing to receive him ? are not your hearts filled with pleasures and delights ? are they not filled with cares and incumbrances of this present life , while there is no room for your christ : o man and woman , is not every thing in thine heart , and christ in the stable : o ye inhabitants of this nation , its hard for ye to kick against that which pricks you ; for in the dread of god almighty do i declare it , there 's not another way , in which god will be worshiped , but by the light which shines in your inward parts ; neither is there another gospel to be preache but this ; gods power made manifest in the heart . o ye professors , my heart is a little enlarged to you , i being once with you in the same dark profession : o how doth my soul breath for you in secret , that you may all come to the substance , the one thing that is needful , and witness the redemption of your souls , to serve the living god no longer in the oldness of the letter , but in the newness of the spirit ; for you have a form , but the life and power is wanting ; you are crying up scriptures , and crying up ordinances , you are crying up baptism and the lords-supper , while you know nothing of the faith which works by love ; and because of these things , saith the apostle , many are sick and weak among you , and many are faln asleep , not discerning the lords body , cor. . . for you discern not the body of whom christ jesus is the head , nor the gospel which is the power of god unto salvation ; you discern not the glad-tidings of life and salvation , which is freely tendered without money or price ; let every one that thirsteth come to the waters , and he that hath no money , let him come buy wine and milk without money and without price , isa . . , , . why do you spend your money for that which is not bread , and your labour for that which satisfieth not ? learn of me , saith christ , heark●n diligently and your souls shall live ; and i will make an everlasting covenant with you , even the sure mercies of david . o england , thy teachers have deceived thee ; they have spoken lyes unto thee , and the divinatien of their own brains , but not one word from the mouth of the lord ; they have cryed peace , peace , when sudden destruction was ready to enter into thy bowels : mic . . thy priests preach for hire , thy heads judge for reward , thy prophets divine for money , and the people love to have it so , but what will ye do in the end thereof ? consider your wayes and your doings , and turn spedily unto the lord by a true and unfeigned repentance , before the decree be sealed , which must never be revok'd again ; rev. . . he that is filthy , let him be filthy still , he that is holy , let him be holy still ; and behold i come , saith christ jesus , to render unto every man according to his works . o land though fruitful thou hast been , thy glory must decay ; the thing thy heart takes pleasure in , must wither like the hay . o england , wilt thou still forget , god's kindness unto thee ? a little time is left thee yet , that happy thou may'st be . but if perversly thou go'st on , then mark what i do say ; i do thee tell ere it be long , the lord will bring a day , of bitter howling unto thee , of anguish , and of smart ; in which the deceit thou shalt see , that lodgeth in thine heart . a testimony for truth against all observers of times and dayes . oye that live in pleasures and vanities , and spend your pretious time in sin and transgression , as carding and dicing , drunkening and feasting , in pretence of keeping christs-day : o my friends consider where you are , and what you are a doing : are you indeed come to christs-day ? or are you not rather in the night , wherein gross darkness surrounds you about ? you are making provision for the flesh to satisfie the lusts thereof : o starved souls , lean , dry , and barren ! you are making provision for the flesh whilst your souls lie in death and darkness , unredeemed to god : alas my friends ! to what purpose is your feastings , to what purpose is your observations of dayes and times , so long as the babe lieth in the manger , and the seed of life is unredeemed to god ? ah friends , if ever you would be witnesses of christs day , and of his glory , which he is now revealing , ye must all come to the light , which you are enlightened by , as the apostle said , we have a more sure word of prophesie , unto which you do well to take heed , as unto a light which shineth in a dark place , until the day-dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , pet. . . now friends , if the day-star were risen in you , there would be no need of observing dayes and times , there would be no keeping a day in twelve moneths , but every day would be a holy day , so that gods glory would fill his temple : but if the day-star be not risen in you , then ye are in the night and in darkness , and he that walks in darkness knoweth not whether he goes : and thus the parable comes to be opened , and the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations , comes to be revealed , even by him who was found worthy to open the book which was sealed with seven seals , reve. . . who is the lion of the tribe of judah , whose everlasting day is dawned , and his glory is risen ; he hath filled our hearts with praise and thanksgiving , glory , honour , everlasting praise , saith my soul , be unto him forever . judith boulbie . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gen. . . num. . jer. , vers . , , . jo. . . a plea for tolleration of opinions and perswasions in matters of religion, differing from the church of england. grounded upon good authority of scripture, and the practice of the primitive times. shewing the unreasonablenesse of prescribing to other mens faith, and the evil of persecuting differing opinions. / humbly presented to the kings most excellent majesty, by john sturgion, a member of the baptized people. sturgion, john. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a plea for tolleration of opinions and perswasions in matters of religion, differing from the church of england. grounded upon good authority of scripture, and the practice of the primitive times. shewing the unreasonablenesse of prescribing to other mens faith, and the evil of persecuting differing opinions. / humbly presented to the kings most excellent majesty, by john sturgion, a member of the baptized people. sturgion, john. p. printed by s. dover, for francis smith, at the elephant and castle near temple-bar, london : . baptized people = the anabaptists. annotation on thomason copy: "march ". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng anabaptists -- england -- apologetic works -- early works to . freedom of religion -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread - tcp staff (michigan) text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a plea for tolleration of opinions and perswasions in matters of religion , differing from the church of england . grounded upon good authority of scripture , and the practice of the primitive times . shewing the unreasonablenesse of prescribing to other mens faith , and the evil of persecuting differing opinions . humbly presented to the kings most excellent majesty , by iohn sturgion , a member of the baptized people . acts . , . and now i say unto you , refrain from these men , and let them alone ; for if this counsel ( or this work ) be of men , it will come to naught ; but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found , even to fight against god. london , printed by s. dover , for francis smith , at the elephant and castle near temple-bar , . a plea for tolleration of opinions and perswasions in matters of religion , differing from the church of england . may it please your majesty , i have had strong impulses upon my mind for some dayes , to present this paper to your majesty , and i humbly hope it will not be made to suffer much under an evil resentment , upon its presentation to your hand , because it bears a testimony about it , of the authors good affections to your royal self ; for my witness is on high , that i did not write this paper because i love you not , because i honour you not , because i own you not , in your royal capacitie of magistracy and civil power ; god knoweth that you have not any subject more christianly real or cordial unto you ; and i humbly beg that your majesty would be pleased so far to deny your self , as to read it with patience , and to judge of it as you shall see cause . i beseech your majestie to consider , that it is one of the soveraign and high concernments of your soul , to understand , and to be acquainted with the counsels and mind of god , and to find time to search throughly into those worthy mysteries , which the blessed angels ( those great princes of heaven ) judge it no wayes beneath them to pry into ; and when they , who are gods by institution shall narrowly and with delight contemplate the real excellency of his glory , who is a god by nature , they must needs be transformed into his likeness , according to that most observable passage of the great apostle ; but we all with open face beholding , as in a glass , the glory of the lord , are changed into the same image , and when the gods on earth , shall be changed into the same image with the god of heaven ; not doubt but blessedness is coming on a pace upon the world . now if your majesty be pleased to look into the excellent proceedings of the king of kings , and lord of lords , towards men ; he doth not take away his favour , or withdraw his grace from all men , because some abuse it , & render themselves so fearfully wicked , as not onely to sin against the law of commandments , but against that glorious gospel of grace sealed and confirmed , by the blood of ever blessed jesus ; nor will he punish the innocent for the guilty : but the soul that sins shall die ; the father shall not answer for the son , nor the son for the father , but every soul shall bear the burthen of his own sin . o that your princely mind might be eluminated or enlightned by this heavenly instance , that your majesties actions to all your subjects , ( from the peere to the poorest ) may be guided by that rule which god himself hath been pleased to lay before you . i shall humbly take leave to mind your majesty of the liberty of tender consciences , which your majesty declared to indulge in your declaration from breda , for which many thousands did in all humility blesse the most high god , who put it into your majesties heart to declare your resolution to provide in that particular , that such as did uot disturb the peace of the kingdom , might worship god according to their light ; and that no man should be molested or disquieted for differing opinions in matters of religion , who could not joyn in the publick service of worship ; yet in regard of some rebellious persons in the city of london , who pretended to the like liberty of worshipping god apart from the parochial assembly ; who made insurrections and committed murder , under groundless pretences , of fighting for the kingdom of christ ; whereupon your majesty by proclamation hath forbid all meetings whatsoever , in private houses , or houses built , or purchased for the use of prayer , and other ordinances of gods worship ; whereby the innocent suffer for the guilty ; and many of your majesties loyal and obedient subjects are questioned , and publickly suspected to their great prejudice in their reputations , the consequence whereof is very mischievous to them and their families . i cannot imagine how your majesty can be unsatisfied , as to the innocency of the baptized people and others , who have not onely disclaimed the wicked rebellion of the said persons , but they have pressed their innocency from the very thought or imagination of any such wickedness ; if your majesty please to consider that in case three or four of your domestick servants should have committed , or done fome unworthy act , whereby they had incurred your just displeasure , upon which your majesty should have discharged all your servants from any further attendance in your royal court , although they never had any thing to do with the offenders , or their wayes ; it may be supposed , that the innocent would have thought this a very severe act ? i shall humbly leave your majesty to make the application . but if it be said , the law is against that indulgence formerly granted unto us , by your majesty ( as was hinted in the answer to the petition of the congregations in london , given at your majesties most honourable privy council , to the said petitioners ) and therefore no longer to be continued unto us , unless the next parliament ( to whom we are referred ) provide for the same . upon which answer , some make this observation ; that seeing the discontinuance of your majesties gracious indulgence , proceedeth from the aspect of some old law , then we should have felt the influence thereof , although venner and his disciples had never been born : moreover , if there be any such law , it was in being before your majesty sent that dove , with the olive-branch of liberty of conscience , ( viz. ) your declaration that granted us toleration ; for no law was made against our meetings by that parliament , which your majesty tearmed , the healing and blessed parliament . now if your majesty saw reason to suspend the execution of those laws , they being hurtful and pernitious to men of tender consciences ; then there is the same reason for your majesty to suspend them still , out of tendernesse to all such as have in no wise abused your clemency and grace , to them vouchsafed in that particular . and whoever have , or shall move your majesty , to continue your proclamation against meetings , to worship god , or to take occasion by those laws , to grieve and afflict poor men and women , who have opinions different from those of the church of england ( for such endeavours are not wanting , by them that know not what spirit they are of ) and this is matter of astonishment and wonder , if your majesty consider it , how far such men are from improving your excellent proclamation against swearing , debauchery and drunkennesse , or being in taverns after nine of the clock at night . oh! how little notice is taken of these proclamations , or of the laws to which they direct , either by the swearing debauched persons themselves , or by your majesties subordinate ministers ? and how few ( if any ) have been prosecuted upon those two proclamations , and what multitudes upon the other ? and this is much to be lamented , that men may with lesse danger , meet at taverns , ale-houses , and other places of debauchery , to drink above measure , or swear , game , rant and tear , as if there were neither heaven nor hell , god nor magistrates ; but if a few poor men and women , meet together in the fear of the lord , having mutual faith , and oneness of heart , to pray unto almighty god ; a part of whose petition is , that god would blesse & guide your majesty , and all that are in authority , that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life , in all godliness and honesty , tim. . . at such meetings many are offended . and may it further please your majesty , to consider your afflicted and innocent subjects , how they have been haled from their peaceable habitations , and thrust into prisons , almost in all counties in england , and many are still detained , to the utter undoing of themselves and families ; and most of them are poor men , whose lively-hood ( under god ) depends upon the labour of their own hands ; so that they lie under more then an ordinary calamity , there being so many thrust into little rooms together , that they are an anoyance each to other ; especially in the city of london , where the lord-mayor crouds them very close together ; that it hath been observed , the keepers have complained , they have had too many guests ; and whilest they suffer there , some of their wives and tender babes want bread at home . and how long this will be the portion of some , i know not , unless your majesty extend the like grace to other prisoners , as your majesty did most princely to them at westminster , in giving order to discharge them , they acknowledging by subscription , your majesty to be the supream magistrate of this kingdom , and of all others of your majesties kingdoms and dominions , without pressing the oath of allegiance , which some are not free to take , by reason christ saith , mat. . . swear not at all , and in st. iames . . above all things my brethren , swear not ; they mistaking these two places , understand that christians should not swear in any case ; and therefore out of meer fear , lest they should offend against a divine law , have fallen under the penalty of that humane law , which requireth us to swear , our allegeance to your majesty . o , that your majesties clemency might enterpose , that their weaknesse on the one hand , and the severity of the law on the other , might not ruine many hundred families . but to return to that for which i am in travel ( viz. ) that we may worship god , according to our light and measure of understanding , unto which we have attained , without being restrained from the exercise thereof , by the magistrate , or by having any thing imposed upon us , as articles of faith , or rules of worship ; in the behalf of which , i humbly tender these six reasons following ; reason . first , be pleased , royal sir , to consider , that such imposing of the magistrates , is contrary to the nature of the gospel ; because it is one of the glories of christian religion , that it was so pious , excellent , powerful , and perswasive , that it came in upon its own piety and wisdom ; with no other force , but a torrent of arguments , and demonstration of the spirit , beating down all strong holds , and every high thought and imagination , that exalted it self against the same ; but towards the persons of men , it was alwayes full of meeknesse , and charity , compliance , and toleration , and bearing one with another , restoring persons overtaken with an errour , with the spirit of meeknesse ; the consideration is as prudent , and the proposition as just , as the precept is charitable , and the president most pious and holy ; that precept which it chiefly preaches in order to all blessedness , is , meekness , mercy and charity , whereby it should preserve it self , and promote its own interest : for indeed nothing will do it so well , nothing doth so excellently insinuate it self into the understanding and affections of men , as when the principles , actions , and perswasions of a people , are in every part suitable ; and it would be a mighty disparagement to so glorious an institution , that in its principle it should be so merciful and humane , and in the promotion and propagation , of it , so inhumane and dishonourable to christ ; it may serve the turk to support his alkoron , but it will much dishonor christianity , to offer to support it by that which good men believe to be a distinctive cognizance of the mahometon religion , from the excellency and piety of christianity , whose sence and spirit , is excellently described by s. paul , tim. . . the servant of the lord must not strive , but be gentle unto all men , in meeknesse instructing those that oppose themselves ; if then any man will smite those that are his opposites in opinion , he must quit the title of being gods servant for his pains ; nor can a distinction of persons ecclesiastical and secular , give advantage for an escape ; for even the secular power , if it be christian , must not be strikers of others for the matters of their faith , for god alone is judge of erring persons , as that learned doctor ieremiah taylor , now bishop of down , saith in his thirteenth page of his epistle dedicatory , to that famous book , entituled , the liberty of prophesie . reason . the second reason against restraining or using force in matters of religion ; is , because christ , who is the only law-giver to his church , gives this precept for the regulation of the conversation of his disciples ; whatsoever you would have men do unto you , do ye even so unto them ; than which there is no law more reasonable , nor more just : it cannot be supposed that kings sitting in the throne of government , or place of trust and rule , are exempted from the observation of this commandment ; which if so , then if the magistrates be of this perswasion , that christ dyed for all men , and the people believe as calvin did , that he dyed for the elect onely ; what can the magistrates do in this case ? for if they make a law in favour of the peoples judgement , then they wrong themselves , which i suppose they will not do , if a law be made in favour of their own opinion against the peoples , then besides the injury which is done to the people , they break that royal law before mentioned , and thereby become guilty before god. reason . the third reason against restraining , or using force in matters of religion , is taken from the unreasonablenesse of such proceedings ; for what is more unreasonable , then to deny men the use of their reason , in choice of their religion ? for if scripture tradition , councils and fathers , be the evidence in a question ; yet reason is the judge ; that is , we being the persons that are to be perswaded , we must see that we be perswaded reasonably , and it is against reason to assent to a lesser evidence , when a greater is propounded , but every man for himself is to take cognizance , if he be able to judge , but if he be not , then he is not bound under the tye of necessity to know it , nor will god punish him for not knowing it ; and not onely the unreasonablenesse , but the impiety of using force in this case , may be further seen , if it be considered , that there is nothing under god hath power over the understanding of a man , god commanding us to believe his revelations , perswades and satisfies the understanding , by his commanding and revealing it ; for there is no greater probation in the world , that a proposition is true , then because god hath commanded it to be believed ; but then it must certainly be made appear to us , that god hath so commanded it ; but no man hath any efficacy or authority on the understanding of another , but by proposal & perswasion , and then a man is bound to assent according to the operation of the argument , and strength of the perswasion ; neither indeed can he assent sooner , or other wayes though he would never so fain ; he therefore that in this case useth force or punishment , punisheth a man for keeping a good conscience , or forceth him into a bad ; he both punisheth sincerity , and perswades hypocrisie , he presecutes a truth , and drives into an errour ; he teacheth a man to dissemble , to be safe , but never to be honest nor acceptable to god. learned doctor taylors argument for tolleration is very excellent , in his epistle to his liberty of prophecie , in page . this very thing ( saith he ) being one of the arguments i use to perswade permissions , left compulsion introduce hypocrisie , and make sinceritie troublesome and unsafe . reason . the fourth reason which i humbly offer to consideration , that persecution for conscience , or the civil magistrate using force in the matters of religion ; is , because it came in through corruptions of the times , so that it is so far from being of divine sanction , that it is earthly and sensual ; for the proof of this i shall onely transcribe a passage out of that worthy author , doctor taylor , in his aforesaid epistle to his liberty of prophecie , page the , . which is as followeth ; that against this i have laid prejudice enough from the dictates of holy scripture , it is observable that this with its appendent degrees , i mean restraint of prophesying , imposing upon other mens understandings , being masters of their consciences , and lording it over their faith , came in with the retinue and train of antichrist ; that is , they came as other abuses and corruption of the church did , by reason of the iniquity of times , and the cooling of the first heats of christianity , and the increase of interest , and the abatement of christian simplicity , when the churches fortune grew better , and her sons grew worse , and some of her fathers worst of all ; for in the first three hundred years there was no sign of persecuting any man for his opinion , though at that time there were very horrid opinions commenced , and such which were exemplary and parallel enough to determine this question ; for they then were assaulted by new sects which destroyed the common principles of nature , of christianity , of innocency and publick society , and they who used all the means christian and spiritual , for their disimprovement and conviction , thought not of using corporal force , other wayes than by blaming such proceedings ; and therefore i do not urge their not doing it , as an argument of the unlawfulness of such proceedings , but their defying it , and speaking against such practices , as unreasonable and distructive to christianty ; for which the learned doctor cites all these fathers , tertullian , st. cyprian , lactantius , st. hilary , minuitius , felix sulpitius , severus , saint chrysostome , st. hierom , st. austin , damascon , theophylact , socrates , scholasticus , and st. bernard ; and he further saith , that all wise princes till they were overborn with faction or solicited by peevish persons , gave tolleration to differing sects , whose opinions did not disturb the publick interest ; and in page . till . years after christ , no catholick person , or very few did provoke the secular arm , or implore its aide . so far he . from which it is evident , that the magistrates imposing in matters of religion , is an evil , from which i pray god deliver your majesty . reason . . the fifth reason is taken from the principles and practices of some great princes , who did both give and perswade tolleration ; king iames your majesties royal grand-father , in his letter to the states of the united provinces dated the sixth of march , . amongst other things thus wrote , etdistrictè imperetis ut pacem colant seinvicem tolerando in ista opinionum ac sententiaram , discere pacitià eoque iustius videmur vobìs hoc ipsum suadere , debere quod neutrum comperimus adeo deviam , ut non possint cum fidei christiana veritate , & cum animarum salute consistore : ( englished for common benefit ) that you charge them to maintain peace by bearing one with another in such difference of opinions and iudgements ; therefore it seemeth more right , that you should be thus perswaded , seeing neither of the judgements is found so dangerous , but that it may stand with the true faith of a christian , and the salvation of souls . the like counsel in the divisions of germany at the first reformation , was thought reasonable by the emperour fardinand , and his excellent son maximilion , they had observed that violence did exasperate , was unblessed , unsuccessful , and unreasonable ; and therefore they made decrees of tolleration , and appointed tempors and expediences to be drawn up by discreet persons ; and george cassander was designed to this great work , and did some thing towards it ; and immanuel phillibert duke of savoy , repenting of his war undertaken for religion against the pedimontans , promised then tolleration , and was as good as his word ; as much is done by the nobilitie of polonia ; and theodoricus the sage , king of the gothes , asswaging the vemency of the arians against the orthodox , no belief ( saith he ) is carryed on by blowes ; nor is that excellent saying of king edward the sixth to be forgotten , he being solicited to put a heretick to death , made this wise answer , will you have me to send her to hell in her sins ? but to conclud● this , the french king ( although he be the second son of the church of roome ) gives tolleration to different perswasions in matters of religion ; for the hugonets have their churches and places of meeting for to worship god in according as they are perswaded by order from their king ; and the world is witness how prosperous they have been , since they have left fighting for religion among themselves . reas. . the sixt and last reason , i have taken from the ill success , that alwayes attends such proceedings ; for whoever used force upon the body to change the mind , or to make men believe something they are not perswaded of , or to disbelieve something they have received for truth , or to leave off worshipping god , in that way which they think is most agreeable to his will ; they will have no better success than that man had , that clapt his shoulder to the ground to stop the earth-quake : and the experiences which christendom hath had in this last age , are sufficient instances ; when france fought amongst themselves , the catholicks against the hugonets , the spilling of their own blood was argument enough , of the imprudence of that way of promoting religion , and that all the blood shed in open arms , and private massacres could not prevent their further growth , nor extinguish that light that sprung up amongst that people ; and the name of the hugonets is not onely still in france , but they and their religion tollerated . but the great instance is in the differing temper , government , and success , which margaret of parma , and the duke of alva had ; the clemency of the first , had almost extinguished the flame , but when she was removed and duke alva succeeded , and mannaged the matter of religion with fire and sword 〈◊〉 made the flame so great , that his religion and his prince too , have been quite turned out of a great part of the country . and we are not without example nearer home , in queen maries dayes , what force and violence was there used , to make the people believe , as the queen and her bishops believed , some was burnt to death , some destroyed in persons , and many that scaped with life , were undone in their estates and lively-hood ; and all this was so unsuccesful , as to the suppressing their further growth , that it did the quite contrary , for the more they were opprest , the more they grew . i shall onely add a passage out of learned bishop taylor , in his epistle to his liberty of prophesie , page . but it is ( saith he ) observed by socrates , that when the first persecution was made against them ( that is ) such as differed in opinion from the bishop at rome , by pope innocent the first ; at the same instant , the gothes invaded italy , and become lords of all ; it being just in god , to bring a persecution upon them , for true belief , who with an incompetent authority , and insufficient grounds , do persecute an errour lesse material , in persons agreeing with them , in the profession of the same common faith. the next thing i humbly offer to your princely consideration , is the divine bond upon our hearts , to worship god according to our light ; and the crying sin , we must commit , if we shall resist our own understanding , and refuse to obey the command of god upon our conscience , to assemble our selves together for his worship , and that we ought to esteem our duty to god , much dearer than our estates , liberty or lives . and our souls are fully perswaded , that it is our duty to meet together , and speak often one to another , to exhort each other daily , to take heed of sin , and to follow after vertue , and to presse after the mark of our high calling of god , in christ iesus our lord ; and to provoke to love and good works , and if any be overtaken in a fault , to restore them in the spirit of meekness ; and to relieve the poor , and to support the weak , that by bearing one anothers burthens we may fulfill the law of christ ; and to walk so inoffensively in our conversation , as to give no iust occasion neither to your majesty as supream magistrate , nor to any of your ministers under you ; nor to any of the people or neighbours about us ; but to observe that excellent law of christ , whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them ; and if any shall persecute us for our profession-sake , to bear it with patience and not to return evil for evil , nor reviling for reviling ; but contrary-wise to do them good for evil , and to pray for them , that their eyes may be opened , and that god may not lay their sin ( in this case ) to their charge . now if your majesty will but consider what it is which the baptized people and divers others , have made such earnest suite to your majesty for , it is not for titles of honours , nor for places of great profit , either in a civil or ecclesiastical capacity , but onely this is their request , and humble desire , that we may serve the lord without molestation in that faith and order which we have learned in the holy scripture ; giving honour to our king to whom honour belongs , fear to whom fear , tribute to whom tribute belong , in every thing as far as we have abilities , to render to god the things that are gods , and to the magistrate the things that are his. rom. . . we likewise judge it our duty , to be alwayes willing and ready to give an answer , to every man that shall ask us a reason of our hope that is in us , with meekness and fear , now if any who judge themselves to be spiritual guides , will but take the pains to endeavour our conviction ( if they think we erre ) or at least to hear what we have to say , why we dissent from the publick worship , we doubt not but through the grace of god , we shall be able to give such an account of our faith and practice , that we do not deserve those epithets some are please do give us . i shall onely transcribe one passage out of that ingenious doctor , dr. ieremiah taylor which i find in sect. . number . of his liberty of prophesie , he speaking of the anabaptists , saith , that since there is no direct impietie in the opinion , nor any that is apparently consequent to it , and they with so much probability do or may pretend to true perswasion , they are with all means christian fair and humane to be redargued or instructed ; but if they cannot be perswaded , they must be left to god , who knoweth every degree of every mans understanding , all his weaknesses and strengths , what impresse each argument maketh upon his spirit , and how unresistable every reason is ; and he alone judges his innocency and sinceritie : and for the question , i think there is so much to be pretented , against that which i believe to be the truth , that there is much more truth than evidence on our side ; and therefore we may be confident , as for our own particulars , but not too forward peremptorily to prescribe to others , much lesse , to damn , or to kill , or to persecute them , that onely in this particular disagree . so far he . i shall conclude with this humble petition , that seeing your majesty hath been most earnestly supplicated ( by many petitions , addresses , and papers ) to continue your former indulgence : oh , that your majesty would be gratiously pleased to do something in it , that may recommend your name to be embalmed by them for perpetuity , through the remembrance of your just , righteous , and merciful actions , in breaking every yoak of oppression , and to the easing of the conscience of every man , professing jesus christ , from all unrighteous impositions ; and as this will administer peace , joy , and comfort to many of your suffering subjects ; so it will bring most excellent consolation unto your majesties soul , when the heavens shall be no more : and as your majesty desires to be found on the right hand of the great judge , in that his day ; so in this your day , to remember and consider , that magistracy and power of government , are no institutions of god , either to fill the purses , or to furnish the tables , or to lift up the minds , or in any kind , to gratifie the flesh of those in whom they are invested ; but rather , to serve to accomodate and bless the societies and communities of men on earth ( unto which they relate respectively ) according to that worthy item , which the queen of sheba gave unto solomon , because the lord loved israel for ever ; therefore made he thee king to do iudgement & iustice. kin. . . the same lord and mighty god , so over-shadow your majesty with his power and good spirit , that the conceptions of your heart , may be holinesse to him , wealth and peace , and gladness of heart to the people of these great and famous kingdoms ( the government whereof god hath been pleased to intrust with you ) to your royal self , honour and safety , and length of dayes , with the peace and joy of a good conscience on earth , and a far more exceeding eternal weight of glory in the heavens ; so prayeth , your humble and dutiful subject , john sturgion . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pet. . . cor. . . eze. . . the apologie of the baptized people of london . the linconshire two addresses . the kentish petition ; and many more to that purpose . cor. . v. . gal. . ● . mat. . there were very sharp contentions about religion amongst the holland ministers ; at that time king iames adviseth the magistrate to moderate them , not to kill or punish them , for they may both be saved . heb. . . mat. . . mat. . . pet. ● . bishop sanderson's judgment concerning submission to usurpers sanderson, robert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) bishop sanderson's judgment concerning submission to usurpers sanderson, robert, - . 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be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- customs and practices. freedom of religion -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion bishop sanderson's judgment concerning submission to usurpers . london , printed by for richard marriott . mdclxxviii . bishop sanderson's judgment concerning submission to usurpers . sir , whereas you desire to know what my judgment and practice is concerning the using or forbearing the establish'd liturgy ( either in whole , or in part ) in the publick service of god , and office of the church : if it be any satisfaction to your friend , i shall fully acquaint you what my practice is ( whereunto if my own judgment be not conform , i am , without all excuse , my own condemner ) and upon what considerations i have , according to the variation of the times , varied from my self therein . so long as my congregation continued unmixt with souldiers , as well after as before the promulgation of the ordinance of the two houses for the abolishing of the common prayer , i continued the use of it , as i had ever formerly done in the most peaceable and orderly times , not omitting those very prayers , the silencing whereof i could not but know to have been chiefly aim'd at in the ordinance ( viz. ) three for the king and queen and bishops ; and so i did also though some souldiers were casually present , till such time as a whole troop coming to quarter in the town ( with a purpose to continue a kind of garison or head-quarter among us ) were so enrag'd at my reading of it the first sunday after they came , that immediately after morning service ended , they seiz'd upon the book , and tore it all in pieces . thenceforward during their continuance there for full six months and upwards ( viz. ) from the beginning of november till they were call'd away to naseby fight in may following , besides that for want of a book of necessity i must , i saw that it also behoov'd me , for the preventing of farther outrages , to wave the use of the book for the time , at least in the ordinary service ; only i read the confession , the lord's prayer , all the versicles , and the psalms for the day . then after the first lesson in the forenoon benedictus or iubilate ; and in the afternoons cantate . after the second lesson also , sometimes the creed , sometimes the ten commandements , and sometimes neither , but only sang a psalm , and so to sermon . but in all that while , in the administration of the sacraments , the solemnization of matrimony , burial of dead , and churching of women , i constantly used the ancient forms and rites to every of them respectively belonging , according to the appointment in the book ; only i was careful in all the rest to make choice of such times and opportunities as i might do them with most secresie , and without disturbance of the souldier . but at the celebration of the eucharist i was the more secure to do it publickly , because i was assur'd none of the souldiers would be present . after their departure i took the liberty to use either the whole liturgy , or but some part of it , omitting sometimes more , sometimes less upon occasion , as i judg'd it most expedient in reference to the auditory , especially if any souldiers , or other unknown persons hapned to be present . but all this while the substance of what i omitted i contriv'd into my prayer before sermon , the phrase and order only varied , which yet i endeavour'd to temper in such sort , that any person of ordinary capacity might easily perceivve what my meaning was , and yet the words left as little liable to exception or cavil as might be . about two years ago i was advertis'd ( but in a friendly manner ) by a parliament man of note in these parts , that at a publick meeting at grantham , great complaint was made by some ministers of the presbyterian gang , as i afterwards found , of my refractoriness to obey the parliaments order in that behalf . the gentleman told me withal , that although they knew what my judgment and practice was , yet they were not forward to take notice of it before complaint made , which being now done in so publick a manner , if they should not take notice of it , the blame would lie upon them . he therefore advised me to consider well what i had to do , for i must resolve either to adventure the loss of my living , or to lay aside common prayer ; which if i should continue after complaint and admonition , it would not be in his power , nor in the power of any friend i had to preserve me . the effect of my then answer was , that if the case were so , the deliberation was not hard : i having long ago considered of the case , and resolved what i might do with a good conscience , and what was fittest for me in prudence to do , if i should ever be put to it ( viz. ) to forbear the use of the common prayer book so far as might satisfie the letter of the ordinance , rather than forsake my station . my next business then was to bethink my self of such a course to be thenceforth held in the publick work in my own parish , as might be believed neither to bring danger to my self by the use , nor to give scandal to my brethren by the disuse of the establish'd liturgy . and the course was this , to which i have held me ever since . i begin the service with a preface , and an exhortation infer'd to make confession of sins ; which exhortation i have fram'd out of the exhortation and absolution in the book , contracted and put together , and exprest for the most part in the same words and phrases , but purposely here and there transplac'd , that it might appear not to be , and yet to be the very same . then follows the confession it self in the same order ; it was enlarg'd only with the addition of some words , whereby it is rather explain'd than alter'd . the whole frame whereof , both for the fuller satisfaction in that particular , and that you may conjecture what manner of addition and change i have made proportionably hereunto ( yet none so large ) in other parts of the holy office , i have here under-written . o almighty god and merciful father , we thy unworthy servants do with shame and sorrow confess , that we have all our life long gone astray out of thy ways like lost sheep ; and that by following too much the vain devices and desires of our own hearts , we have grievously offended against thy holy laws both in thought , word , and deed . we have many times left undone those good duties which we might and ought to have done , and we have many times done those evils , when we might have avoided them , which we ought not to have done . we confess , o lord , that there is no health at all , nor help in any creature to relieve us ; but all our hope is in thy mercy , whose justice we have by our sins so far provoked . have mercy upon us therefore , o lord , have mercy upon us miserable offenders : spare us good lord who confess our faults , that we perish not , but according to thy gracious promises declared unto mankind in christ iesu our lord , restore us upon our true repentance into thy grace and favour . and grant , o most merciful father , for his sake , that we henceforth study to serve and please thee by leading a godly , righteous , and sober life , to the glory of thy holy name , and the eternal comfort of our own souls , through iesus christ our lord. amen . after the confession the lord's prayer with the versicles , and gloria patri , and then psalms for the day , and the first lesson : after which in the forenoon , sometimes te deum , ( but then only when i think the auditory will bear it ) and sometimes an hymn of mine own , gathered out of the psalms and church collects , as a general form of thanksgiving ( which i did the rather , because i have noted the want of such a form as the only thing wherein the liturgy seem'd to be defective ) . and in the afternoon , after the first lesson the th . psalm , or the th . then the second lesson , with benedictus or iubilate ; after it in the forenoon and afternoon a singing psalm . then followeth the creed , with dominus vobiscum ; and sometimes the versicles in the end of our letany [ from our enemies defend us ] if i lik'd my auditory , otherwise i omit the versicles . after the creed , and instead of the letany and the other prayers appointed in the book , i have taken the substance of the prayer i was wont to make before sermon , and dispos'd it into several collects or prayers , some longer and some shorter , but new modell'd into the language of the common prayer book much more than it was before . and in the pulpit , before sermon i use only a short prayer in reference to the hearing of the word , and no more . so that upon the matter , in these prayers i do but the same thing i did before , save only that what before i spake without book , and in a continued form in the pulpit , i now read out of a written book broken into parcels , and in the reading desk or pue . between which prayers and the singing psalms before the sermon , i do also daily use one other collect , of which sort i have for the purpose compos'd sundry , made up also ( as the former ) for the most part out of the church collects , with some little enlargement or variation ; as namely , the collects adventual , quadragesimal , paschal , or pentecostal , for their proper seasons ; and at other times collects of a more general nature , as for pardon , repentance , grace , &c. and after one or more of them in the forenoon , i usually repeat the ten commandements , with a short collect after them for grace to enable us to keep them . this hath been my practice , and is like still to be , unless some happy change of affairs restore us the liberty of using the old way again , or it be made appear to my understanding by some able charitable friend , that i therein have done otherwise then i ought to have done : for i may say , that i have not yet met with any thing in discourse , either with my own reason or others , of sufficient strength to convince me that i have done any thing , but what may stand with the principles as well of christian simplicity as prudence . there are but three things , that i know of , that are of any consideration oppos'd , viz. . the obligation of the laws . . the scandal of the example . . the unseemly symbolizing at least with schismaticks , if not partaking with them in the schism . . law. object . the first and strongest objection ( which i shall therefore propose to the most advantage of the objector ) is that which is grounded upon the laws , and their obligation : for it may be objected , that every humane law rightly establish'd , so long as it continueth a law , obligeth the subject ( and that for conscience sake ) to the observation thereof in such manner and form as in the same law is prescribed , and according to the true meaning and intention of the law-giver therein . that a law is then understood to be rightly establish'd , when it containeth nothing but what is honest and lawful , and is enacted by such person or persons as have full and sufficient authority to make laws . that a law so establish'd continues a law , and is so in force , till it be either repealed by as good and lawful authority , as that by which it was made , or else antiquated by a long continued uninforc'd disuse with the tacit or presumed consent of the law-giver . that the act printed before the common prayer book , and entituled ( an act for the uniformity ) was such a law , being it was established in a full and free parliament in peaceable times , and ratified by the royal assent , that it still continues in force , and being not yet repealed , but by such persons as ( at least in the opinion of those that maintain the dispute ) for want of the royal assent , have not a sufficient right or authority to do such an act , nor disused but of late times , and that by enforcement , and as is presum'd , much against the mind of the law-giver . that therefore it still retains the power of obliging in part of conscience ; that power being so essential and intrinsecal to every law , quatenus a law , that it can in no wise be sever'd from it . and that therefore no minister publickly officiating in the church , can with a good conscience either omit any part of that which is commanded by the aforesaid law , or use any other form than what is contained in the foresaid book , but must either use the form prescribed in the book , or else forbear to officiate . the answer to this objection ( granting all in the premisses besides ) dependeth upon the right understanding of that which is affirmed concering the obligation of the laws according to the intention of the law-giver ; which if it should be understood precisely of that particular , actual , and immediate intention which the law-giver had declared by the words of the law ( in which sense only the objection proceedeth ) will not hold true in all cases . but there is suppos'd besides that , in law-giver , a more general , habitual , & ultimate intention of a more excellent and transcendent nature than the former , which is to have an influence into , and over-ruling power over all particular laws ( viz. ) an intention by the laws to procure and promote the publick good . the former intention binds , when it is subservient to the latter , or consistent with it , and consequently bindeth in ordinary cases , and in orderly times , or else the law is not a wholesome law. but when the observation of the law , by reason of the conjuncture of circumstances , or the iniquity of the times ( contingencies which no lawgiver could either certainly foresee , or if foreseen , sufficiently provide against ) would rather be prejudicial than advantageous to the publick ; or is manifestly attended with such inconveniencies and sad consequents to the observers , as all the imaginable good that can redound to the publick thereby , cannot in any reasonable measure countervail : in such case the law obligeth not , but according to the latter and more general intention only ; even as in the operations of nature , particular agents do ordinarily move according to their proper and particular inclinations ; yet upon some occasions , and to serve the ends and intentions of universal nature ( for the avoiding of some things which nature abhors ) they are sometimes carried with motions quite contrary to their particular natures ; as the air to descend , and the water to ascend for the avoiding of vacuity , &c. the common received maxim ( which hath been sufficiently misapplied , and that sometimes to very ill purposes since the beginning of these unhappy divisions ) in the true meaning of it looketh this way , salus populi suprema lex : the equity of which maxim , as it leaveth in the law-giver a power of dispensing with the law ( which is a suspending the obligation thereof for the time in respect of the proper and particular intention ) so he shall see it expedient in order to the publick good ; so it leaveth in the subject a liberty upon just occasions ( as in cases of great exigency , and for the preventing of such hazards and inconveniencies as might prove of noysome consequence to the publick ) to do otherwise than the law requireth . and neither is the exercise of that power in the lawgiver to be thought an unreasonable prerogative , nor the use of this liberty in the subject an unreasonable presumption ; inasmuch as the power of dispensing with particular laws is such a prerogative , as without which no commonwealth can be well govern'd , but justice would be turn'd into gall and wormwood : nor can the supream governour , without forfeiture of that faithfulness which he oweth to the publick weal , devest himself thereof . and he that presumeth of the law-givers consent to dispense with him for the observation of the law in such needful cases ( where he hath not the opportunity to consult his pleasure therein ) presumeth no more than he hath reason to do . for it may well be presum'd that the law-giver , who is bound in all his laws to intend the safety of the publick , and of every member thereof in his due proportion , hath no intention by the strict observation of any particular law , to oblige any person , who is a member of the publick , to his destruction or ruin , when the common good is not answerably promoted thereby : upon which ground it is generally resolv'd by casuists ▪ that no constitution ( meerly humane ) can lay such obligation upon the conscience of the subject , but that we may ( according to the exigency of circumstances ) do otherwise than the constitution requireth , provided it be done extra casum scandali & contemptûs , i. e. without either bewraying in himself any contempt of the authority of the law-giver by his carriage , or giving any just occasion of scandal to others by his example in so doing . i have been somewhat the longer in explaining this point , not only for the better clearing of the present doubt , but also in respect of the usefulness of this consideration for the preventing and removing of many scruples that may happen to conscientious men in such times as these , wherein so many things are ( and are like to be ) commanded and forbidden contrary to the establish'd laws , and those ( as they are perswaded ) yet standing in force . the best rule that i know to guide men in their deliberations and actions in such emergent cases ( according to what hath been already delivered ) is advisedly and impartially to weigh the benefit & inconveniencies , as well on the one side , as on the other , as they stand in relation unto the publick good : and if after such examination and comparison made , it shall then evidently ( or but in the judgment of probability ) appear , that the observation of the law , according to the proper intention of the law-giver therein , though with hazard of estate , liberty , or even life it self , hath a greater tendency to the publick good , and the preservation of church or commonwealth in safety , peace , and order , than the preventing of the foresaid hazards , or other evil consequents , by doing otherwise than the law requireth , can have ; or ( which cometh to one ) if the violating of the law shall then appear to be more prejudicial to the publick good , than the preservation of the subject's estate , liberty , or life can be beneficial hereunto : in such case the subject is bound to hazard all he hath , and undergo whatsoever inconveniencies and calamities can ensue thereupon , rather than violate the law with contempt of that authority to which he oweth subjection . but if it shall ( after such comparison made ) evidently ( or but more probably than the contrary ) appear , that that preservation of such a persons life , liberty , estate , would more benefit the church or commonwealth , than the punctual observation of the law at that time , and with those circumstances , would do ; it were an unseasonable , unreasonable , and pernicious scrupulosity for such a person to think himself in such a case obliged for the observing of the law ( perhaps but once or twice ) with little or no benefit to the publick , to ruin himself , whereby to render himself unuseful and unserviceable to the publick for ever hereafter . to bring this discourse home , and to apply it to the business now under dispute . suppose we ten , twenty , or one hundred godly ministers , well affected to the establish'd liturgy , and actually possess'd of benefices , with the charge of souls thereto belonging , should , thinking themselves in conscience obliged to the use of the whole form of the book , as is by the act appointed , without any addition , omission , or alteration whatsoever ( notwithstanding the present conjuncture of affairs ) resolve to use the same accordingly , it would be well considered what the effects and consequents thereof would be . besides other evils , these three are visible , which must all unavoidably follow one upon another , if any body shall be found ( as doubtless within short time there will be found one or other ) to inform and prosecute against them . . the utter undoing of so many worthy persons , fit to do god and his church good service , together with all those persons that depend upon them for their livelyhood , by putting the fruits of their benefices , wherewith they should buy themselves bread , under sequestration . . the depriving of those persons of the opportunity of discharging the duties that belong unto them in their ministerial calling , in not permitting them , after such sequestration , to teach or instruct the people belonging to their charge , or to exercise any thing of their function publickly in the church . . the delivering over the sheep of christ , that lately were under the hands of the faithful shepherds , into the custody of ravenous wolves , when such guides shall be set over the several congregations , as will be sure to mis-teach them one way or other ( viz. ) either by instilling into them puritanical and superstitious principles , that they may the more securely exercise their presbyterian tyranny over their judgments , consciences , persons , and estates , or else by setting up new lights before them , to lead them into a maze of anabaptistical confusion and frenzy . these consequents are so heavy to the sufferers , so certain to ensue upon the use of common prayer , and so much without the power of the law-givers ( in this state of affairs ) either to prevent or remedy , that it is beyond the wit of man what benefit to the publick can accrue by the strict observation of the act , that may in any proportion countervail these mischiefs . in which case , that man must needs suppose a strange austerity in the law-giver , that dares not presume of his consent to disoblige him ( for the time ) from observing the same . it would be also well considered , whether he that by his own over-nice scrupulosity runs all these hazards , be not ( in some measure ) guilty of his own undoing , of deserting his station , and of betraying his flock , and do not thereby lose much of that comfort which a christian confessor may take in his sufferings , when they are laid upon him by the hand of god , and not pull'd upon himself by his own hands . and more i shall not need to say as to that first objection . object . . scandal . the next thing objected is , the danger of the scandal that others might be ready to take at the example , who seeing the law so little regarded by such men ( men that have cure of souls , and perhaps also of some eminency and esteem in the church , and whose example will be much look'd upon ) will be easily encourag'd by this example to set light by all authority , and to take the liberty to obey and disobey the laws of their soveraign at their pleasure . but this objection , after we are once satisfied concerning the former , need not much trouble us . for , . it seemeth an unreasonable thing in cases of great exigence ( such as we now suppose ) that the fear of scandalizing our weak brethren ( which is but debitum charitatis only ) should lay upon us a peremptory necessity of observing the law punctually , whatsoever inconveniencies and mischiefs may ensue thereupon : when the duty of obedience to our known governours ( which is debitum justitiae also , and therefore more obligatory than the other ) doth not impose that necessity upon us ; as hath been already shewn . . besides , arguments drawn from scandal in things neither unlawful nor ( setting the reason of scandal aside ) inexpedient , as they are subject to sundry frailties otherwise , so they are manifestly of no weight at all , when they are counterpois'd with the apparent danger of evil consequents on the other side . for in such cases there is commonly equal danger ( if not rather something more ) of scandal to be taken from the example the quite contrary way . we may see it in debating the point now in hand : it is alledged on the one side , that by laying aside the use of the common prayer , men that are over scrupulous will be encourag'd to take a greater liberty in dispensing with the laws ( to the despising both of laws and governours ) than they ought . and why may it not , by the same reason , be as well alledg'd on the other side , that by holding up a necessity of using the common prayer , men that have tender consciences may be induc'd to entertain scruples ( to their utter undoing , and to the destruction of their people ) when they need not ? . but that in the third place , which cometh up home to the business , and taketh off the objection clearly , is this , that in judging cases of scandal , we are not so much to look to the event , what it is , or may be , as to the cause , whence it cometh . for sometimes there is given just cause of scandal ; and yet no scandal followeth , because it is not taken : sometimes scandal is taken , and yet no just cause given : and sometimes there is both cause of scandal given , and scandal taken thereat . but no man is concern'd at any scandal that happeneth to another by occasion of any thing done by him , neither is chargeable with it farther than he is guilty of having given it . if then we give scandal to others , and they take it not , the whole guilt is ours , and they are faultless . if we give it , and they take it , we are to bear a share in the blame as they , and that a deep share ; ( vae homini , wo to the man by whome the offence cometh , matth. . . ) but if they take offence when we give none , it is a thing we cannot help , and therefore the whole blame must lie upon them . wherefore , if at any time any doubt shall arise in that case of scandal , how far forth the danger thereof may oblige us to the doing or not doing of any thing propos'd ; the resolution will come on much the easier , if we shall but rightly understand what it is to give scandal , or how many ways a man may become guilty of scandalizing another by his example . the ways ( as i conceive ) are but these four . . when a man doth something before another , which is in it self evil , unlawful , and sinful . in which case , neither the intention of him that doth it , nor the event as to him that seeth it done , is of any consideration : for it matters not whether the doer hath an intention to draw the other into sin , or not ; the very matter and substance of the action being evil , and done before others , is sufficient to render the doer guilty of having given scandal , though neither he had intention himself so to do , nor was any other person actually scandaliz'd thereby : because whatsoever is in its own nature evil , is of it self , and in its own nature scandalous , and of ill example . thus did hophni and phineas ▪ the sons of eli , give scandal by their wretched prophaneness and greediness about the sacrifices of the lord , and their shameless abusing the women . and so did david also give great scandal in the matter of vriah , sam. . . here the rule is , do nothing that is evil , for fear of giving scandal . . the second way is , when a man doth something before another with a direct intention and formal purpose of drawing him thereby to commit sin . in which case neither the matter of the action , nor the event is of any consideration : for it makes no difference as to the sin of giving scandal , whether any man be effectually entic'd to commit sin or not thereby ; neither doth it make any difference , whether the thing done were in it self unlawful , or not , so as it had an appearance of evil , and from thence an aptitude to draw another by the doing of that ( by imitation ) which should be really and intrinsecally evil . the wicked intention alone ( whatsoever the effect should be , or what means soever should be us'd to promote it ) sufficeth to induce the guilt of giving scandal upon the doer . this was ierohoam's sin , in setting up the calves , with a formal purpose and intention thereby ( for his own secular and ambitious ends ) to corrupt the purity of religion , and to draw the people unto idolatrous worship . for which cause he is so often stigmatiz'd with it , as a note of infamy , to stick by him whilst the world lasteth , being scarce ever mention'd in the scripture , but with this addition , jeroboam the son of nebat , which made israel to sin . here the rule is , do nothing , good or evil , with an intention to give scandal . . the third way is when a man doth something before another , which in it self is not evil , but indifferent , and so according to the rule of christian liberty , lawful for him to do , or not to do , as he shall see cause ( yea , and perhaps otherwise commodious and convenient for him to do ) yet whereas he probably foreseeth that others will take scandal , and be occasioned thereby to do evil . in such a case , if the thing to be done be not in some degree prudentially necessary for him to do , but that he might , without very great inconvenience or prejudice to himself or any third person , leave it undone : he is bound in charity to his brother's soul ( for whom christ died ) and for the avoiding of scandal , to abridge himself in the exercise of his christian liberty for that time , so far as rather to suffer some inconvenience himself by the not doing of it , than by the doing of it to cause his brother to offend . the very case which is so often , so largely , and so earnestly insisted upon by st. paul. see rom. . , . rom. . , . cor. . , . cor. . , , , . cor. . . . here the rule is , do nothing that may be reasonably forborn , whereat scandal will be taken . . the last way is , when a man doth somthing before another , which is not only lawful , but ( according to the exigencies of present circumstances ) pro hic & nunc very behoofful , and even prudentially necessary for him to do , but foreseeth that the other will be like to make an ill use of it , and take encouragement thereby to commit sin , if he be not withal careful , as much as possibly in him lieth , to prevent the scandal that may be taken thereat : for , qui non prohibet peccare , cum potest , jubet . in such case the bare neglect of his brother , and not using his utmost endeavour to prevent the evil that might ensue , maketh him guilty . upon which consideration standeth the equity of the judicial law given to the jews , which ordered , that in case a man dig a pit for the use of his family , and looking no farther than his own convenience , put no cover upon it , and leave it open , whereby it hapneth his neighbours beast to fall thereinto and perish , the owner of the pit is to make it good , inasmuch as he was the occasioner of that loss to his neighbour , which he might and ought to have prevented . here the rule is order the doing of that , which may not be well left undone , in such sort that no scandal ( so far as you can help it ) may be taken thereat . to apply this . the thing under debate , viz. the action propos'd to present enquiry is , the laying aside the common prayer , being enjoyn'd by law , and using instead thereof some other form of church service of our own devising . and the enquiry concerning it is , whether it may be done with a good conscience in regard of the scandal that is given , or at least may be taken thereat , yea or no ? now forasmuch as in this enquiry we take it for granted , that the thing to be done is not in its own nature simply evil , but rather in this state of affairs prudentially necessary ; and that they who make scruple at it upon the point of scandal , have not the least intention of drawing other of the laws into contempt , or their brethren into sin by their example . it is manifest that three of the now mention'd cases , with the rules to each of them appending , are not pertinent to the present enquiry . but since the last of the four only proveth to be our case , we have therefore no more to do for the setling of our judgments , and quieting of our consciences , and the regulating of our practice in this affair , than to consider well what the rule in this case given obligeth us unto ; which is not to leave the action undone for the danger of scandal , which ( besides the inconveniencies formerly mention'd ) would but start new questions , and those beget more to the multiplying unnecessary scruples in infinitum : but to order the doing of it so , that ( if it were possible ) no scandal at all might ensue thereupon , or at least wise not by our default , through our careless or undiscreet managery thereof . even as the jew that stood in need to sink a pit for the service of his house or ground , was not ( for fear his neighbours beast should fall into it , and be drown'd ) bound by the law to forbear the making of it , but only to provide a sufficient cover for it , where he had made it . the thing then in this case is not to be left undone , when it so much behoveth us to do it ; but the action to be carried on ( for the manner of doing , and in all respects and circumstances thereunto belonging ) with so much chariness and tenderness , moderation and wisdom ( to our best understanding ) that the necessity of our so doing , with the true cause thereof , may appear to the world , to the satisfaction of those that are willing to take notice of it ; and that such persons as would be willing to make use of our ensample to do the same thing , where there is not the same necessity , may do it upon their own score , and not be able to vouch our practice for their excuse ; which how it may be best done for particular directions , every charitable and conscientious man must ask his own discretion . some general helps thereunto i shall lay down in answering the next objection , where they would fall in again not improperly , and so stop two gaps with one bush. object . . schism . the last objection is that of shism . the objectors hold all such persons as have oppos'd either liturgy or church government , as they were by law establish'd within this realm , for no better than schismaticks ; and truly i shall not much gain-say it . but then they argue , that for them to do the same thing in the publick worship of god that schismaticks do ( and for doing whereof especially it is that they avow them schismaticks ) would ( as they conceive ) involve them in the schism also , as partakers thereof in some degree with the other : and their consciences also would , from rom. . . condemn them either of hypocrisie , in allowing that in themselves , and in their own practice , which they condemn in others ; or of uncharitableness , in judging others as schismaticks for doing but the same thing which they can allow themselves to practise . for all that such persons , as they call schismaticks , do in this matter of the church service , is but to leave out the churches prayers , and to put in their own . or say , this should not make them really guilty of the schism they so much detest , yet would such their symbolizing with them seem at least a kind of unworthy compliance with them , more than could well become the simplicity of a christian , much less of a minister of the gospel , whose duty it is to shun even the least appearance of evil . besides , that by so doing they should but confirm such men in their schismatical principles and practice . this objection hath branches . to the first whereof i oppose the old saying , duo cum faciunt idem , non est idem ; which , although spoken quite to another purpose , yet is very capable of such a sense which will very well fit our present purpose also . i answer therefore in short . to do the same thing that schismaticks do ( especially in times of confusion , and till things can be reduc'd unto better order , and when men are necessitated thereunto to prevent greater mischiefs ) doth not necessarily infer a partaking with them in schism , no , nor so much as probably , unless it may appear upon probable presumption otherwise , that it is done out of the same schismatical spirit , and upon such schismatical principles as theirs are . the other two branches ( viz. that of seeming compliance with schismaticks , and that of the ill use they make of it to confirm them in their schism ) do upon the matter fall in upon the aforesaid point of scandal , and are in effect but the same objection , only put into a new dress , and so have receiv'd their answer already . and the only remedy against both these fears ( as well that of scandal , as this of schism ) is the same which was there prescrib'd , even to give assurance to all men , by our carriage and behaviour therein , that we do not lay aside common prayer of our own accord , or out of any dislike thereof , neither in contempt of our rightful governours , or of the laws , nor out of any base compliance with the times , or unworthy secular own ends , nor out of any schismatical principles , seditious designs , or innovating humour ; but meerly enforc'd thereunto by such a necessity , as we cannot otherwise avoid in order to the glory of god , and the publick good , for the preservation of our families , our flocks , and our functions : and that with the good leave and allowance ( as we have great reason to believe ) of such as have power to dispense with us and the laws in that behalf . this if we shall do bonâ fide , and with our utmost endeavours , in singleness of heart , and with godly discretion , perhaps it will not be enough to prevail with either the censure of inconsiderate and inconsiderable persons , or the ill use that may be made of our example , through the ignorance or negligence of some ( scandalum pusillorum ) or through the perversness and malice of others ( scandalum pharisaeorum ) as the schools term them : but assuredly it will be sufficient in the sight of god , and the witness of our own hearts , and to the consciences of charitable and considering men , to acquit us clear of all guilt , either of scandal or schism in the least d●gree . which we may probably do by observing these ensuing , or such other like general directions ( the liberty of using such meet accommodations , as the circumstances in particular cases shall require , evermore allowed and reserved ) . viz. . if we shall decline the company and society of known schismaticks , not conversing frequently or familiarly with them , or more than the necessary affairs of life , and the rules of neighbourhood and common civility will require ; especially not to give countenance unto their church assemblies , by our presence among them , if we can avoid it . . if we shall retain , as well in common discourse , as in our sermons and holy offices of the church , the old theological and ecclesiastical terms and forms of speech , which have been generally received and used in the churches of christ , which the people are well acquainted with , and are wholsome and significant , and not follow our new masters in that uncouth affected garb of speech , or canting language rather ( if i may so call it ) which they have of late taken up , as the signal distinction and characteristical note of that , which in that their new language they call the godly party , or communion of saints . . if in officiating we repeat not only the lord's prayer , the creed , the ten commandements , and such other passages in the common prayer book , as ( being the very words of scripture ) no man can except against ; but so much of the old liturgy besides , in the very words and syllables of the book , as we think the ministers of state in those parts wherein we live will suffer , and the auditory , before whom we officiate , will bear ; sith the officers in all parts of the land are not alike strict , nor the people in all parishes alike disaffected in this respect . . if , where we must of necessity vary from the words , we yet follow the order of the book in the main parts of the holy offices , retaining the substance of the prayers , and embellishing those of our own making , which we substitute into the place of those we leave out , with phrases and passages taken out of the book in other places . . if , where we cannot safely mention the particulars mentioned in the book ( as namely in praying for the king , the queen , the royal progeny , and the bishops ) we shall yet use in our prayers some such general terms , and other intimations devised for that purpose , as may sufficiently convey to the understanding of the people what our intentions are therein , and yet not be sufficient to fetch us within the compass of the ordinance . . if we shall in our sermons take occasion now and then , where it may be pertinent , either to discover the weakness of the puritan principles and tenets to the people ; or to shew out of some passages and expressions in the common prayer , the consonancy of those observations we have raised from the text , with the judgment of the church of england : or to justifie such particular passages in the letany , collects , and other parts of our liturgy as have been unjustly quarell'd at by presbyterians , independents , anabaptists , or other ( by what name or title soever they are called ) puritan sectaries . thus have i freely acquainted you both with my practice and judgment in the point propos'd in your friend's letter . how i shall be able to satisfie his or your judgment in what i have written , i know not ; however , i have satisfied both your desire and his in writing , and shall rest your brother and servant in the lord , rob. sanderson . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e answ. sam. . . . exod. . , . thess. . a letter sent from syrranam, to his excellency, the lord willoughby of parham, general of the western islands, and of the continent of guianah, &c. then residing at the barbados together, with the lord willoughby's answer thereunto : with a commendable description of that country / by henry adis. adis, henry. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter sent from syrranam, to his excellency, the lord willoughby of parham, general of the western islands, and of the continent of guianah, &c. then residing at the barbados together, with the lord willoughby's answer thereunto : with a commendable description of that country / by henry adis. adis, henry. willoughby of parham, francis willoughby, baron, ?- . p. [s.n.], london : . by a sectarian who had settled in guiana for the sake of the liberty of conscience promised by the english colonial officials.--cf. jcb lib. cat., pre- , iii, - . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- suriname. suriname -- description and travel. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter sent from syrranam , to his excellency , the lord willoughby of parham , general of the western islands , and of the continent of guianah , &c. then residing at the barbados . together , with the lord willoughby's answer thereunto . with a commendable description of that country . by henry adis. london , printed in the year , . a letter sent from syrranam to his excellency , the lord willoughby of parham , &c. at the barbados . my lord , that report which i heard in the land of my nativity , from all that i conversed withal that had travelled these parts , of that worthy person , whom your lordship hath lately honoured with the title and power of your lieutenant general of this continent of guinah , was the great motive , next the glory of god , and the good of souls , of my first intended voyage unto this place : and now being experimentally sensible of fames truth in this particular , i cannot but wi●h thankfulness of heart humbly acknowledge it to your lordship , and must in the faithfulness of my soul , say as once it was said after the like long voyage ( in an other case , yet little differing ) by that queen of shebah , concerning the wisdom & magnificence of king solomon , kings . that the half was not told me : for i have been not only made partaker of the benefits that all persons under his charge do injoy ( the which are no mean ones ) together with the due administration of justice without respect of persons , but also of many signal favours , by your lordships recommendations , procured ; the which i must also hereby thankfully acknowledge . and as for the freedom of our liberties in the service of our god , according to what was promised by your lordship , and also by the act of the council of this colony , manifested , we do freely enjoy : the which , for mine own part ( god assisting ) shall not in the least be abused ; but as in the land of my nativity , so hear i shall fervently pray for , and earnestly endeavour the temporal preservation and eternal well-being both of the king , and all that are sent by him for the punishment of evil doers , and for the praise of them that do well ; and shall not in the least endeavour either by word or action , directly or indirectly , to alienate the hearts of any of his subjects , either from him , or any that are set up or sent by him , though both he and they should persecute or dispitefully use us ; but shall ( god assisting ) both pray for them , and according to the rule of holy scripture , preach up all dutiful obedience , both to government and governours , in all civil things : and if at any time either he , or you , shall force us to worship in the way , that either he , or you , do , or shall worship in , shall ( by the assistance of the almighty ) resolve to suffer under you , and not in the least resist you my self , nor endeavour it by others , but shall press to a peaceable life and a holy conversation , the which in all probability may be hoped ( by the blessing of god ) to conduce much to the reforming of many of country-men here , who call themselves christians , yet by their debauched atheistical actions , evidence themselves more brutish by far , than the very heathens themselves , to the shame and stink of christianity amongst them ; the which , by the civil party here residing , is greatly hoped will , by your lordships wisdom and care , now suddainly be remedied , although the constitution of the colony , could not hitherto well brook a reformation . and now , my lord , speaking of a reformation , i must in the faithfulness of my soul , discharge my conscience to you , in letting you know that there is a prize now put into your hands ; the which if it be not used to the advancement of his glory that hath advanced you to this higher step of honour ; it will at the last prove that , which will but the more aggravate your greater misery , when you must appear before the great tribunal , there to give an account to that king of kings , and lord of lords , that righteous judge , who will give to every man according to his works : and that then you may give up your account with joy , and not with trembling , let me beg you in gods fear , so to set upon the work of a thorow reformation , not only here , but also in all places where you have to do , that men may tremble to blaspheme that holy name of him , who so loved the world , that he gave his only son to dye for them . my lord , in the next place , i must beg you not to take these lines from me at the worst hand , as that i think your lordship either short of your duty , or backward to so good and christian a work , or that i should presume to moddle a frame of government ; the which the searcher of all hearts knows is the least of my thoughts : but seeing in these parts , by the rude rabble , drunkenness and so much debauchery ; and hearing , to the great trouble of my soul , so many bitter oaths , horrid execrations , and lascivious abominations , i cannot but bear my faithful testimony against them , and also earnestly desire and endeavour a suppression of them ; not that i fear the violence of the persons so acting , although i have , since i came hither , had a sufficient share of them ; for i have , through mercy , tasted so much of the providence of the almighty in the land of my nativity , in the midst of my sufferings , that i know that not a hair from my head shall perish without his providence . neither did i acquaint your faithful lieutenant therewith , that i either feared their force , or in the least desired their punishment , as he himself can bear me witness , for it is contrary to our principles so to act ; but being invited hither by an act of the council of the colony , and having obtained ( by the good hand of god upon me ) a free pass from the king and his council , not only for my self and mine , but also for six families more , to transport our selves into this place ; and only my self , and mine , and one of the said families more , venturing over , the rest with several others , do earnestly desire a faithful account from me , not only of the place , but also of our entertainment here , as to our liberties , and having a verbal assurance thereof from your excellencies deputy , and another person of quality and eminency here . yet notwithstanding , meeting with some gross incivilities , especially by two debauched persons-in the heighth of their drunkenness ; i thought good to acquaint the said persons therewith , and the rather , because it was told us by several in england , that the said invitations , and also your lordships promises , and the kings indulgence for tender consciences in these parts granted , were but as so many decoyes to inveagle us , and to make us a prey ; but your lieutenants readiness , and his eager severity in examining , and also in intending to punish the said abuses , hath given me so ample a satisfaction of the verity thereof , as that i am confirmed in my judgement of the reality of them , and can now with a better confidence give a better testimony of the verity thereof to those that have desired it ; and as for the said offenders , as i had given information of their abuses , so i was fain to beg off their punishments . and now my lord , after this long discourse , so soon as i have given your lordship to understand , that i and mine like well the country and climate , and that notwithstanding we have not plenty of that which formerly we have enjoyed , of english food of all sorts , yet i bless god , for meat and drink , we fare as well with the countreys provisions now in our old age , as ever we did in our youthful dayes , and do not in the least lust after them , nor much desire them . and as for our young ones , my son and daughter , they are fully as well satisfied as we in every particular . and now without multiplying more lines , i shall in the faithfulness of my heart , humbly take my leave , praying for your safe and speedy passage to us ; and in the mean time , for a safe return of your faithful lieutenant amongst us again ; till which , his temporal joy will in a great measure be eclipsed , who must subscribe himself , your excellencies to his power to serve you . henry adis. from tyrarico in syrranam , in the continent of guianah , the th of the th month , vulgarly called december , . the lord willoughby's answer . mr. adis , i am very glad to find by your letter , that you like the land so well , and approve of the place ; i hope that in time god will work upon the hearts of the people to be of a more civil life and conversation . all new colonies you know of what sort of people generally they are made up of ; so that , what we in probability can expect from them , must be from length of time , and the good example of those who have been more civilly bred , and god hath wrought upon , and better principled , which i do with great expectation hope in time may produce good effects in that poor and sad colony of syrranam : i do pray to god to strengthen you in those your resolutions for the good of the people of that poor place : i know your descretion will tell you that reformation is not usually wrought of a suddain in such people , but that endeavours are to be used by degrees to draw them to better carriages . i could be glad to hear more of your sober friends that you mention were coming to you ; and am very glad to find you are so well satisfied in my lieutenant general : and do assure you , and hope you are fully satisfied therein , that nothing that may lye within the power of him or my self , for the effecting of the good ends i know you aim at , shall be wanting , as well for the confirmation of what hath been promised , as to the free liberty and enjoyment of your consciences in the worship of god , and likewise for the encouragement of your civil peace and comfortable living ; of which i pray god to increase afterwards , and to let your friends know as much from him , who is and will be a servant to you all ; and rest , your assured friend , p. willoughby . barbados , the d of ianuary , . finis . a third letter for toleration, to the author of the third letter concerning toleration locke, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a third letter for toleration, to the author of the third letter concerning toleration locke, john, - . proast, jonas. third letter concerning toleration. [ ], , [ ] p. printed for awnsham and john churchill ..., london : . errata: [ ] p. at end. signed at end: philanthropus. attributed to john locke cf. blc. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion. toleration. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a third letter for toleration , to the author of the third letter concerning toleration . london , printed for awnsham and john churchill , at the black swan in pater-noster-row . mdc xcii . the reader may be pleased to take notice , that l. . stands for the letter concerning toleration . a. for the argument of the letter concerning toleraration briefly consider'd and answer'd . l. . the second letter concerning toleration . p. the pages of the third letter concerning toleration . a third letter for toleration . chap. i. sir , the business which your letter concerning toleration found me ingaged in , has taken up so much of the time my health would allow me ever since , that i doubt whether i should now at all have troubled you or the world with an answer , had not some of my friends , sufficiently satisfied of the weakness of your arguments , with repeated instances , perswaded me it might be of use to truth in a point of so great moment , to ●…lear it from those fallacies which might perhaps puzzle some unwary readers ; and therefore prevailed on me to shew the wrong grounds and mistaken reasonings you make use of to support your new way of persecution . pardon me , sir , that i use that name , which you are so much offended at : for if punishment be punishment , though it come short of the discipline of fire and faggot , 't is as certain that punishment for religion is truly persecution , though it be only such punishment as you in your clemency think fit to call moderate and convenient penalties . but however you please to call them , i doubt not but to let you see , that if you will be true to your own principles , and stand to what you have said , you must carry your some ●…egrees of force ( as you phrase it ) to all these degrees which in words you declare against . you have indeed in this last letter of yours , altered the question ; for pag. . you tell me the question between us , is , whether the magistrate hath any right to use force to bring men to the true religion ? whereas you your self own the question to be , whether the magistrate has a right to use force in matters of religion ? whether this alteration be at all to the advantage of truth or your cause , we shall see . but hence you take occasion ●…ll along to lay load on me for charging you with the absurdities of a power in the magistrates to punish men , to bring them to their religion : whereas you here tell us they have a right to use force only to bring men to the true . but whether i were more to blame to suppose you to talk coherently and mean sense , or you in expressing your self so doubtfully and uncertainly , where you were concerned to be plain and direct , i shall leave to our readers to judg ; only here in the beginning i shall endeavour to clear my self of that imputation , i so often meet with , of charging on you consequences you do not own , and arguing against an opinion that is not yours , in those places , where i shew how little advantage it would be to truth , or the salvation of mens souls , that all magistrates should have a right to use force to bring men to imbrace their religion . this i shall do by proving , that if upon your grounds the magistrate , as you pretend , be obliged to use force to bring men to the true religion , it will necessarily follow , that every magistrate , who believes his religion to be true , is obliged to use force to bring men to his . you tell us , that by the law of nature the magistrate is invested with coactive power , and obliged to use it for all the good purposes which it might serve , and for which it should be found needful , even for the restraining of false and corrupt religion : and that it is the magistrate's duty , to which he is commissioned by the law of nature , but the scipture does not properly give it him . i suppose you will grant me , that any thing laid upon the magistrate as a duty , is some way or other practicable . now the magistrate being obliged to use force in matters of religion , but yet so as to bring men only to the true religion , he will not be in any capacity to perform this part of his duty , unless the religion he is thus to promote , be what he can certainly know , or else what it is sufficient for him to believe to be the true : either his knowledg or his opinion must point out that religion to him , which he is by force to promote ; or else he may promiscuously and indifferently promote any religion , and punish men at a venture , to bring them from that they are in , to any other . this last i think no body has been so wild as to say . if therefore it must be either his knowledg or his perswasion that must guide the magistrate herein , and keep him within the bounds of his duty ; if the magistrates of the world cannot know , certainly know the true religion to be the true religion ; but it be of a nature to exercise their faith , ( for where vision , knowledg and certainty is , there faith is done away ) then that which gives them the last determination herein , must be their own belief , their own perswasion . to you and me the christian religion is the true , and that is built ( to mention no other articles of it ) on this , that jesus christ was put to death at jerusalem , and rose again from the dead . now do you or i know this , ( i do not ask with what assurance we believe it , for that in the highest degree not being knowledg , is not what we now inquire a●…ter ) can any magistrate demonstrate to himself ( and if he can to himself , he does ill not to do it to others ) not only all the a●…ticles of his church , but the fundamental ones of the christian religion ? for whatever is not capable of demonstration ( as such remote matters of fact are not ) is not , unless it be self-evident , capable to produce knowledg , how well grounded and great soever the assurance of faith may be wherewith it is received ; but faith it is still , and not knowledg ; perswasion , and not certainty . this is the highest the nature of the thing will permit us to go in ●…atters of revealed religion , which are therefore called matters of faith : a perswasion of our own minds , short of knowledg , is the last result that determines us in such truths . 't is all god requires in the gospel for men to be saved : and 't would be strange if there were more required of the magistrate for the direction of another in the way to salvation , than is required of him for his own salvation . knowledg then , properly so called , not being to be had of the truths necessary to salvation , the magistrate must be content with faith and perswasion for the rule of that truth he will recommend and inforce upon others ; as well as of that whereon he will venture his own eternal condition . if therefore it be the magistrates duty to use force to bring men to the true religion , it can be only to that religion which he believes to be true : so that if force be at all to be used by the magistrate in matters of religion , it can only be for the promoting that religion which he only believes to be true , or none at all . i grant that a strong assurance of any truth settled upon prevalent and well-grounded arguments of probability , is often called knowledg in popular ways of talking : but being here to distinguish between knowledg and belief , to what degrees of considence soever raised , their boundaries must be kept , and their names not confounded . i know not what greater pledg a man can give of a full perswasion of the truth of any thing , than his venturing his soul upon it , as he does , who sincerely imbraces any religion , and receives it for true . but to what degree soever of assurance his faith may rise , it still comes short of knowledg . nor can any one now , i think , arrive to greater evidence of the truth of the christian religion , than the first converts in the time of our saviour and the apostles had ; of whom yet nothing more was required but to believe . but supposing all the truths of the christian religion necessary to salvation could be so known to the magistrate , that in his use of force for the bringing men to imbrace these , he could be guided by infallible certainty ; yet i fear this would not serve your turn , nor authorize the magistrate to use force to bring men in england , or any where else , into the communion of the national church , in which ceremonies of humane institution were imposed , which could not be known , nor ( being confessed things in their own nature indifferent ) so much as thought necessary to salvation . but of this i shall have occasion to speak in another place : all the use i make of it here , is to shew , that the cross in baptism , kneeling at the sacrament , and such like things , being impossible to be known necessary to salvation , a certain knowledg of the truth of the articles of faith of any church , could not authorize the magistrate to compel men to imbra●… the communion of that church , wherein any thing were made necessary to communion , which he did not know was necessary to salvation . by what has been already said , i suppose it is evident , that if the magistrate be to use force only for promoting the true religion , he can have no other guide but his own perswasion of what is the true religion , and must be led by that in his use of force , or else not use it at all in matters of religion . if you take the latter of these consequences , you and i are agreed : if the former , you must allow all magistrates , of whatsoever religion , the use of force to bring men to theirs , and so be involved in all those ill consequences which you cannot it seems admit , and hoped to decline by your useless distinction of force to be us●…d , not for any , but for the true religion . 't is the d●…y , you say , of the magistrate to use force for pro●…ing the true religion . and in several places you tell us , he is o●…liged to it . perswade magistrates in general of this , and then ●…ll me how any magistrate shall be restrained from the use of force , for the promoting what he thinks to be the true ? for he being perswaded that it is his duty to use force to promote the true religion , and being also perswaded his is the true religion , what shall stop his hand ? must he forbear the use of force till he be got beyond believing , into a certain knowledg that all he requires men to imbrace , is necessary to salvation ? if that be it you will stand to , you have my consent , and i think there will be no need of any other toleration . but if the believing his religion to be the true , be sufficient for the magistrate to use force for the promoting of it , will it be so only to the magistrates of the religion that you pro●…ss ? and must all other magistrates sit still , and not do their duty till they have your permission ? if it be your magistrate's duty to use force for the promoting the religion he believes to be the true , it will be every magistrate's duty to use force for the promoting what he believes to be the true , and he sins if he does not receive and promote it as if it were true . if you will not take this upon my word , yet i desire you to do it upon the strong reason of a very judicious and reverend prelate of the present church of england , in a discourse concerning conscience , printed in to , . p. . you will find these following words , and much more to this purpose : where a man is mistaken in his judgment , even in that case it is always a sin to act against it . though we should take that for a duty which is really a sin , yet so long as we are thus perswaded , it will be highly criminal in us to act in contradiction to this perswasion : and the reason of this is evident , because by so doing , we wilfully act against the best light which at present we have for the direction of our actions . so that when all is done , the immediate guide of our actions can be nothing but our conscience , our judgment and perswasion . if a man , for instance , should of a jew become a christian , whilst yet in his heart he believed that the messiah is not yet come , and that our lord jesus was an impostor : or if a papist should renounce the communion of the roman church , and join with ours , whilst yet he is perswaded that the roman church is the only catholick church , and that our reformed churches are heretical or schismatical ; though now there is none of us that will d●…ny that the men in both these cases have made a good change , as having changed a false religion for ●…ruo one , yet for all that i dare say we should all agree they were both of them great villains for making that change , becauso they made it not upon honest principles , and in pursuance of their judgment , but in direct contradiction to both . so that it being the magistrate's duty to use force to bring men to the ●…rue religion ; and he being perswaded his is the true , i suppose you will no longer question but that he is as much obliged to use force to bring men to it , as if it were the true . and then , sir , i hope you have too much respect for magistrates , not to allow them to believe the religions to be true which they profess . these things put together , i desire you to consider whether if magistrates are obliged to use force to bring men to the true religion , every magistrate is not oblig'd to use force to bring men to that religion he believes to be true ? this being so , i hope i have not argued so wholly besides the purpose , as you all through your letter accuse me , for charging on your doctrine all the ill consequences , all the prejudice it would be to the true religion , that magistrates should have power , to use force to bring men to their religions : and i presume you will think your self concerned to give to all these places in the first and second letter concerning toleration , which shew the inconveniences and absurdities of such an use of force , some other answer , than that you are for punishing only such as reject the true religion . that 't is plain the force you speak of is not force , my way applied , i. e. applied to the promoting the true religion only , but to the promoting all the national religions in the world. and again , to my arguing that force your way applied , if it can propagate any religion , it is likelier to be the false than the true , because few of the magistrates of the world are in the right way . you reply , this would have been to the purpose , if you had asserted that every magistrate may use force your indirect way ( or any way ) to bring men to his own religion , whatever that be . but if you asserted no such thing , ( as no man you think but an atheist will assert it ) then this is quite besides the business . this is the great strength of your answer , and your refuge almost in every page . so that i presume it reasonable to expect that you should clearly and directly answer what i have here said , or else find some other answer than what you have done to the second letter concerning toleration . however acute you are in your way in several places on this occasion , as p. , . for my answer to which i shall refer you to another place . to my argument against force , from the magistrates being as liable to error as the rest of mankind , you answer , that i might have considered that this argument concerns none but those who assert that every magistrate has a right to use force to promote his own religion , whatever it be , which you think no man that has any religion will assert . i suppose you may think now this answer will scarce serve , and you must assert either no magistrate to have right to promote his religion by force , or else be involv'd in the condemnation you pass on those who ass●…rt it of all magistrates . and here i think , as to the decision of the question betwixt us , i might leave this matter : but there being in your letter a great many other gross mistakes , wrong suppositions , and fallacious arguings , which in those general and plausible terms you have made use of in several places , as best served your turn , may possibly have imposed on your self , as well as they are fitted to do so on others , and therefore will deserve to have some notice taken of them ; i shall give my self the trouble of examining your letter a little farther . to my saying , it is not for the magistrate , upon an imagination of its usefulness , to make use of any other means than what the author and finisher of our faith had directed ; you reply , which how true soever , is not , i think , very much to the purpose . for if the magistrate does only assist that ministry which our lord has appointed , by using so much of his coactive power for the furthering their service , as common experience discovers to be useful and necessary for that end ; there is no manner of ground to say , that upon an imagination of its usefulness , he makes use of any other means for the salvation of mens souls , than what the author and finisher of our faith has directed . 't is true indeed the author and finisher of our faith has given the magistrate no new power or commission , nor was there any need that he should , ( if himself had had any temporal power to give : ) for he found him already , even by the law of nature , the minister of god to the people for good , and bearing the sword not in vain , i. e. invested with coactive power , and obliged to use it for all the good purposes which it might serve , and for which it should be found needful ; even for the restraining of false and corrupt religion ; as job long before ( perhaps before any part of the scriptures were written ) acknowledged , when he said , that the worshipping the sun or the moon , was an iniquity to be punished by the judg. but though our saviour has given the magistrates no new power , yet being king of kings , he expects and requires that they should submit themselves to his scepter , and use the power which always belonged to them , for his service , and for the advancing his spiri●…ual kingdom in the world. and even that charity which our great master so earnestly recommends , and so strictly requires of all his disciples , as it obliges all men to seek and promote the good of others , as well as their own , especially their spiritual and eternal ●…se , by such means as their several places and relations enable them to use ; so does it especially oblige the magistrate to do it as a magistrate , i. e. by that power which enables him to do it above the r●…e of other men. so far therefore is the christian magistrate , when he gives his helping hand to the furtherance of the g spel , by laying convenient penalties upon such as reject it , or any part of it , from using any other means for the salvation of mens souls , than what the author and finisher of our faith has directed , that he does no more than his duty to god , to his redeemer , and to his subjects , requires of him . the sum of your reply amounts to this , that by the law of nature the magistrate may make use of his coactive power where it is useful and necessary for the good of the people . if it be from the law of nature , it must be to all magistrates equally : and then i ask whether this good they are to promote without any new power or commission from our saviour , be what they think to be so , or what they certainly know to be so . if it be what they think to be so , then all magistrates may use force to bring men to their religion : and what good this is like to be to men , or of what use to the true religion , we have elsewhere considered . if it be only that good which they certainly know to be so , they will be very ill enabled to do what you require of them , which you here tell us is to assist that ministry which our lord has appointed . which of the magistrates of your time did you know to have so well studied the controyersies about ordination and church-government , to be so well versed in church-history and succession , that you can undertake that he certainly knew which was the ministry which our lord had appointed , ei-that of rome , or that of sweden , whether the episcopacy in one part of this island , or the presbytery in another , were the ministry which our lord had appointed ? if you say , being ●…mly perswaded of it , be sufficient to authorize the magistrate to use force ; you with the atheists , as you call them , who do so , give the people up in every country to the coactive force of the magistrate , to be employed for the assisting the minis●… of his religion : and king lewis of good right comes in with his dragoons ; for 't is not much doubted that he as strongly believed his popish priests and jesuits to be the ministry which our lord appointed , as either king charles or king james the d believed that of the church of england to be so . and of what use such an exercise of the coactive power of all magistrates , is to the people , or to the true religion , you are concerned to shew . but 't is ( you know ) but to tell me , i only trif●…e , and this is all answered . what in other places you tell us , is to make men hear , consider , study , imbrace , and bring men to the true religion , you here do very well to tell us is to assist the ministry : and to that 't is true , common experience discovers the magistrate's coactive force to be useful and necessary , viz. to those who taking the reward , but not over-busying themselves in the care of souls , find it for their ease , that the magistrates coactive power should supply their want of pastoral care , and be made use of to bring those into an outward consormity to the national church , whom either for want of ability they cannot , or want of due and friendly application , join'd with an exemplary life , they never so much as endeavoured to prevail on heartily to embrace it . that there may be such neglects in the best-constituted national church in the world , the complaints of a very knowing bishop of our church in a late discourse of the pastoral care , is too plain an evidence . without so great an authority i should scarce have ventured ( though it lay just in my way ) to have taken notice of what is so visible , that it is in every one's mouth , for fear you should have told me again , that i made my self an occasion to shew my good-will toward the clergy . for you will not , i suppose , suspect that eminent prelate to have any ill-will to them . if this were not so , that some were negligent , i imagine the preachers of the true religion ( which lies , as you tell us , so obvious and exposed , as to be easily distinguish'd from the false ) would need or desire no other assistance from the magistrates coactive power , but what should be directed against the irregularity of mens lives ; their lusts being that alone , as you tell us , that makes force necessary to assist the true religion ; which were it not for our depraved nature , would by its light and reasonableness have the advantage against all sal●…e religions . you tell us too , that the magistrate may impose creeds and ceremonies ; indeed you say sound creeds and decent ceremonies , but that helps not your cause : for who must be judg of that sound , and that decent ? if the imposer , then those words signify nothing at all , but that the magistrate may impose those creeds and ceremonies which he thinks sound and decent , which is in effect such as he thinks ●…t . indeed you telling us a little above in the same page , that it is a vice not to worship god in ways prescribed by those to whom god has left the ordering of such matters ; you seem to make other judges of what is sound and decent , and the magistrate but the executor of their decrees with the assistance of his coactive power . a pretty foundation to establish creeds and ceremonies on , that god has lest the ordering of them to those who cannot impose them , and the imposing of them to those who cannot order them . but still the same difficulty returns ; for after they have prescribed , must the magistrate judg them to be sound and decent , or must he impose them , though he judg them not sound or decent ? if he must judg them so himself , we are but where we were : if he must impose them when prescribed , though he judg them not sound nor decent , 't is a pretty sort of drudgery is put on the magistrate : and how far is this short of implicite faith ? but if he must not judg what is sound and decent , he must judg at least who are those to whom god has left the ordering of such matters ; and then the king of france is ready again with his dragoons for the sound doctrine , and decent ceremonies of his prescribers in the council of trent , and that upon this ground , with as good right as any other has for the prescriptions of any others . do not mistake me again , sir ; i do not say , he judges as right ; but i do say , that whilst he judges the council of trent , or the clergy of rome to be those to whom god has left the ordering of those matters , he has as much right to follow their decrees , as any other to sollow the judgment of any other set of mortal men whom he believes to be so . but whoever is to be judg of what is sound or decent in the case , i ask , of what vse and necessity is it to impose creeds and ceremonies ? for that vse and nec●…ssuy i●… all the commission you can sind the magistrate hath to use his coactive power to impose them . . of what use and necessity is it among christians that own the scripture to be the word of god and rule os faith , to make and impose a creed ? what commission for this hath the magistrate from the law of nature ? god hath given a revelation that contains in it all things necessary to salvation , and of this his people are all perswad●…d . what necessity now is there ? how does their good require it , that the magistrate should single out , as he thinks sit , any number of those truths as more necessary to salvation than the rest , if god himself has not done it ? . but next , are these creeds in the words of the scripture or not ? if they are , they are certainly sound , as containing nothing but truth in them : and so they were before as they lay in the scripture . but thus though they contain nothing but sound truths , yet they may be imperfect , and so unsound rules of faith , since they may require more or less than god requires to be believed as necessary to salvation . for what greater necessity i pray is there that a man should believe that christ suffered under pontius pilate , than that he was born at bethlehem of judah ? both are certainly true , and no christian doubts of either : but how comes one to be made an article of faith , and imposed by the magistrate as necessary to salvation , ( for otherwise there can be no necessity of imposition ) and the other not ? do not mistake me here , as if i would lay by that summary of the christian religion , which is contained in that which is called the apostles creed ; which though no body who examines the matter , will have reason to conclude of the apostles compiling , yet is certainly of reverend antiquity , and ought still to be preserved in the church . i mention it not to argue against it , but against your imposition , and to shew that even that creed , though of that antiquity , though it contain in it all the credenda necessary to salvation , cannot yet upon your principles be imposed by the 〈◊〉 power of the magistrate , who even by the commission you have found out for him , can use his force for nothing but what is absolutely necessary to salvation . but if the creed to be imposed be not in the words of divine revelation ; then it is in plainer , more clear and intelligible expressions , or not : if no plainer , what necessity of changing those , which men inspired by the holy ghost made use of ? if you say , they are plainer ; then they explain and determine the sense of some obscure and dubious places of scripture , which explication not being of divine revelation , though sound to one man , may be unsound to another , and cannot be imposed as truths necessary to salvation . besides that , this destroys what you tell us of the obviousness of all truths necessary to salvation . and as to rites and ceremonies , are there any necessary to salvation , which christ has not instituted ? if not , how can the magistrate impose them ? what commission has he from the care he ought to have for the salvation of mens souls , to use his coactive force for the establishment of any new ones which our lord and saviour ( with due reverence be it spoken ) had forgotten ? he instituted two rites in his church ; can any one add any new one to them ? christ commanded simply to baptize in the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost ; but the signing of the cross , how came that necessary ? humane authority which is necessary to assist the truth against the corruption of humane nature , has made it so . but 't is a decent ceremony . i ask , is it so decent that the administration of baptism , simply , as our saviour instituted , would be indecent without it ? if not , then there is no reason to impose it for decency's sake ; for there can be no reason to alter or add any thing to the institution of christ , or introduce any ceremony or circumstance into religion for decency , where the action would be decent without it . the command to do all things decently and in order , gave no authority to add to christ's institution any new ceremony , it only prescribed the manner how , what was necessary to be done in the congregation , should be there done , ( viz. ) after such a manner , that if it were omitted , there would appear some indecency , whereof the congregation or collective body was to be judg , for to them that rule was given : and if that rule go beyond what i have said , and gives power to men to introduce into religious worship whatever they shall think decent , and impose the use of it ; i do not see how the greatest part of the infinite ceremonies of the church of rome could be complained of , or refused , if introduced into another church , and there imposed by the magistrate . but if such a power were given to the magistrate , that whatever he thought a decent ceremony , he might de novo impose , he would need some express commission from god in scripture , since the commission you say he has from the law of nature , will never give him a power to institute new ceremonies in the christian religion , which , be they decent , or what they will , can never be necessary to salvation . the gospel was to be preached in their assemblies , the rule then was that the habit , gesture , voice , language , &c. of the preacher ( for these were necessary circumstances of the action ) should have nothing ridiculous or indecent in it . the praises of god were to be sung ; it must be then in such postures and tunes as became the solemnity of that action . and so a convert was to be baptized , christ instituted the essential part of that action , which was washing with water in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; in which care was also to be had , that in the doing this nothing should be omitted that preserved a decency in all the circumstances of the action . but no body will say that if the cross were omitted , that upon that account there would be any thing indecent in baptism . what is to be done in the assemblies of christians for the salvation of souls , is sufficiently prescribed in scripture : but since the circumstances of the actions were so various , and might in several countries and ages have different appearances ( as that appears decent in one country which is quite contrary in another ) concerning them there could be no other rule given than what is , viz. decently , in order , and to edification ; and in avoiding indecenci●…s , and not adding any new ceremonies ( how decent soever ) this rule consists . i judg no man in the use of the cro●… in baptism ; the imposition of that , or any other ceremony not instituted by christ himself , is what i argue against , and say , is more than you upon your principles can make good . because you think your argument for the magistrate's right to use force has not had its d●…e consideration ; i shall here set it down in your own words , as it stands , and indeavour to give you satisfaction to it . you say there , if such a degree of outward force as has been mentioned , be of great and even necessary vse for the advancing those ends , ( as taking the world as we find it , i think it appears to be ) then it must be acknowledged that there is a right somewhere to use it for the advancing those ends , unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things has not furnished mankind with compe●…nt means for the pro●…oring his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . and if there be such a right somewhere , where should it be , but where the power of compelling resides ? that is principally , and in reference to the publick in the civil soveraign . which words , if they have any argument in them , it in short stands thus . force is useful and necessary : the good and wise god ( who without impiety cannot be supposed not to have furnished men with competent means for their salvation ) has therefore given a right to some men to use it , and those men are the civil soveraigns . to make this argument of any use to your purpose , you must speak a little more distinctly , ( for here you , according to your laudable and safe way of writing , are wrapp'd up in the uncertainty of general terms ) and must tell us , besides the end for which it is useful and necessary , to whom it is useful and necessary . is it useful and necessary to all men ? that you will not say , for many are brought to imbrace the true religion by bare preaching , without any force . is it then necessary to all those , and those only , who as you tell us , reject the true religion tendered with sufficient evidence , or at least so far manifested to them , as to oblige them to receive it , and to leave them without excuse if they do not ? to all therefore , who rejecting the true religion so tendered , are without excuse , your moderate force is useful and necessary . but is it to all those competent , i. e. sufficient means ? that 't is evident in matter of fact , it is not ; for after all , many stand out . 't is like you will say , which is all you have to say , that those are such , who having resisted this last means , moderate force , god always refuseth his grace to , without which no means is ●…fficacious . so that your competent at last , are only such means as are the utmost that god has appointed , and will have used , and which when men resist , they are without excuse , and shall never after have the assistance of his grace to bring them to that truth they have resisted , and so be as the apostle , tim. iii. . calls such , men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith. if then it shall be , that the day of grace shall be over to all those who reject the truth manifested to them , with such evidence , as leaves them without excuse , and that bare preaching and exhortation shall be according to the good pleasure of the benign disposer of all things , enough ( when neglected ) to make their hearts fat , their ears heavy , and shut their eyes that they should not perceive nor understand , nor be converted , that god should heal them . i say , if this should be the case , then your force , whatever you imagine of it , will neither be co●…petent , useful , nor necessary . so that it will rest upon you to prove that your moderate degrees of force are those means of grace which god will have , as necessary to salvation , tried upon every one before he will pass that sentence in isaiah , make his heart fat , &c. and that your degree of moderate force is that beyond which god will have no other or more powerful means used , but that those whom that works not upon , shall be left reprobate concerning faith. and till you have proved this , you will in vain pretend your moderate force ( whatever you might think of it , if you had the ordering of that matter in the place of god ) to be useful , necessary , and competent means . for if preaching , exhortation , instruction , &c. as seems by the whole current of the scripture , ( and it appears not that isaiah in the place above-cited , made their hearts far with any thing but his words ) be that means , which when rejected to such a degree , as he sees fit , god will punish with a reprobate mind , and that there be no other means of grace to come after ; you must confess that whatever good opinion you have of your moderate force after this sentence is passed , it can do no good , have no efficacy neither directly nor indirectly , and 〈◊〉 a distance , towards the bringing men to the truth . if your moderate force be not that precise utmost means of grace , which when ineffectual , god will not afford his grace to any other , then your moderate force is not the comp●…tent means you talk of . this therefore you must prove that preaching alone is not , but that your moderate force join'd to it is that means of grace , which when neglected or r●…ted , god will assist no other means with his grace to bring men into the obedience of the truth ; and this let me tell you , you must prove by revelation . for it is impossible to know , but by revelation , the just measures of god's long-suffering , and what those means are , which when mens corruptions have rendred ineffectual , his spirit shall no longer strive with them , nor his grace assist any other means for their conversion or salvation . when you have done this , there will be some ground for you to talk of your moderate force , as the means which god's wisdom and goodness is ingaged to furnish men with ; but to speak of it , as you do now , as if it were that both necessary and competent means , that it would be an imputation to the wisdom and goodness of god , if men were not furnished with it , when 't is evident , that the greatest part of mankind have always been destitute of it , will i fear be not easily cleared from that impiety you mention ; for though the magistrate had the right to use it , yet where-ever that moderate force was not made use of , there men were not furnished with your competent means of salvation . 't is necessary for the vindication of god's justice and goodness , that those who miscarry should do so by their own fault , that their destruction should be from themselves , and they be left inexcusable : but pray how will you shew us , that it is necessary , that any who have resisted the truth tendered to them only by preaching , should be saved , any more than it is necessary that those who have resisted the truth when moderate force has been joined to the same preaching , should be saved ? they are inexcusable one as well as the other , and thereby have incurred the wrath of god , under which he may justly leave the one as well as the other ; and therefore he cannot be said not to have been furnished with competent means of salvation , who having rejected the truth preached to him , has never any penalties laid on him by the magistrate to make him consider the truths he before rejected . all the stress of your hypothesis for the necessity of force lies on this , that the majority of mankind are not prevailed on by preaching , and therefore the goodness and wisdom of god is obliged to furnish them with some more effectual means , as you think . but who told you that the majority of mankind should ever be brought into the strait way , and narrow gate ? or that force in your moderate degree was the necessary and competent , i. e. the just sit means to do it , neither over nor under , but that that only , and nothing but that could do it ? if to vindicate his wisdom and goodness , god must furnish mankind with other means , as long as the majority , yet unwrought upon , shall give any forward demander occasion to ask , what other means is there left ? he must also after your moderate penalties have left the greater part of mankind unprevailed on , be bound to furnish mankind with higher degrees of force upon this man's demand : and those degrees of force proving ineffectual to the majority to make them truly and sincerely christians , god must be bound to furnish the world again with a new supply of miracles upon the demand of another wise controuler , who having set his heart upon miracles , as you have yours on force , will demand , what other means is there left but miracles ? for 't is like this last gent. would take it very much amiss of you , if you should not allow this to be a good and unquestionable way of arguing ; or if you should deny that after the utmost force had been used , miracles might not do some service at least , indirectly and at a distance , towards the bringing men to imbrace the truth . and if you cannot prove that mi-racles may not thus do some service , he will conclude just as you do , that the cause is his . let us try your method a little farther . suppose that when neither the gentlest admonitions , nor the most earnest intreaties will prevail , something else is to be done as the only means left , what is it must be done ? what is this necessary competent means that you tell us of ? it is to lay briars and thorns in their way . this therefore being supposed necessary , you say , there must somewhere be a right to use it . let it be so . suppose i tell you that right is in god , who certainly has a power to lay briars and thorns in the way of those who are got into a wrong one , whenever he is graciously pleased that other means besides instructions and admonitions should be used to reduce them . and we may as well expect that those thorns and briars laid in their way by god's providence , without telling them for what end , should work upon them as effectually , though indirectly , and at a distance , as those laid in their way by the magistrate , without telling them for what end. god alone knows where it is necessary , and on whom it will be useful , which no man being capable of knowing , no man , though he has coercive power in his hand , can be supposed to be authorized to use it by the commission he has to do good , on whomsoever you shall judg it to be , of great and even necessary use : no more than your judging it to be of great and even necessary use , would authorize any one who had got one of the incision-knives of the hospital in his hand , to cut those for the stone with it , whom he could not know needed cutting , or that cutting would do them any good , when the master of the hospital had given him no express order to use his incision-knife in that operation ; nor was it known to any but the master , who needed , and on whom it would be useful ; nor would he fail to use it himself wherever he found it necessary . be force of as great and necessary use as you please ; let it be so the competent means for the promoting the honour of god in the world , and the good of souls , that the right to use it must necessarily be somewhere . this right cannot possibly be , where you would have it , in the civil soveraigns , and that for the very reason you give , viz. because it must be where the power of compelling resides . for since civil soveraigns cannot compel themselves , nor can the compelling power of one civil soveraign reach another civil soveraign , it will not in the hands of the civil soveraigns reach the most considerable part of mankind , and those both for their own and their subjects good , have most need of it . besides , if it go along with the power of compelling , it must be in the hands of all civil soveraigns alike : which by this , as well as several other reasons i have given , being unavoidable to be so , this right will be so far from useful , that whatever efficacy force has , it will be imployed to the doing more harm than good ; since the greatest part of civil soveraigns being of false religions , force will be imployed for the promoting of those . but let us grant what you can never prove , that though all civil soveraigns have compelling power , yet only those of the true religion have a right to use force in matters of religion : your own argument of mankind being unfurnished ( which is impiety to say ) with competent means for the promoting the honour of god , and the good of souls , still presses you . for the compelling power of each civil soveraign not reaching beyond his own dominions , the right of using force in the hands only of the orthodox civil soveraigns , leaves the rest , which is the far greater part of the world , destitute of this your necessary and competent means for promoting the honour of god in the world , and the good of souls . sir , i return you my thanks for having given me this occasion to take a review of your argument , which you told me i had mistaken ; which i hope i now have not , and have answered to your satisfaction . i confess i mistook when i said that cutting being judg'd useful , could not authorize even a skilful surgeon to cut a man without any farther commission : for it should have been thus ; that though a man has the instruments in his hand , and force enough to cut with ; and cutting be judg'd by you of great and even necessary use in the stone ; yet this , without any farther commission , will not authorize any one to use his strength and knise in cutting , who knows not who has the stone , nor has any light or measures to judg to whom cutting may be necessary or useful . but let us see what you say in answer to my instance : . that the stone does not always kill , though it be not cured ; but men do often live to a great age with it , and die at last of other distempers . but aversion to the true religion is certainly and inevitably mortal to the soul , if not cured , and so of absolute necessity to be cured . is it of absolute necessity to be cured in all ? is so , will you not here again think it requisite that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things , should furnish competent means for what is of absolute necessity ? for will it not be impiety to say , that god hath left mankind unfurnished of competent , i. e. sufficient means for what is absolutely necessary ? for it is plain in your account men have not been furnished with sufficient means for what is of absolute necessity to be cured in all , if in any of them it be left uncured . for as you allow none to be sufficient evidence , but what certainly gains assent ; so by the same rule you cannot call that sufficient means which does not work the cure. it is in vain to say , the means were sufficient , had it not been for their own fault , when that fault of theirs is the very thing to be cured . you go on ; and yet if we should suppose the stone as certainly destructive of this temporal life , as that aversion is of mens eternal salvation : even so the necessity of curing it would be as much less than the necessity of curing that aversion , as this temporal life falls short in value of that which is eternal . this is built upon a supposition , that the necessity of the means is increased by the value of the end , which being in this case the salvation of mens souls , that is of insinite concernment to them , you conclude salvation absolutely necessary : which makes you say that aversion , &c. being inevitably mortai to the soul , is of absolute necessity to be cured . nothing is of absolute necessity but god : whatsoever else can be said to be of necessity , is so only relatively in respect to something else ; and therefore nothing can indefinitely thus be said to be of absolute necessity , where the thing it relates to is not absolutely necessary . we may say , wisdom and power in god are absolutely necessary , because god himself is absolutely necessary : but we cannot crudely say , the curing in men their aversion to the true religion , is absolutely necessary , because it is not absolutely necessary that men should be saved . but this is very proper and true to be said , that curing this aversion is absolutely necessary in all that shall be saved . but i fear that would not serve your turn , tho it be certain that your absolute necessity in this case reaches no farther than this , that to be cured of this aversion is absolutely necessary to salvation , and salvation is absolutely necessary to happiness ; but neither of them , nor the happiness it self of any man can be said to be absolutely necessary . this mistake makes you say , that supposing the stone certainly destructive of this temporal life , yet the necessity of curing it would be as much less than the necessity of curing that aversion , as this temporal life falls short in value of that which is eternal . which is quite otherwise : for if the stone will certainly kill a man without cutting , it is as absolutely necessary to cut a man of the stone for the saving of his life , as it is to cure the aversion for the saving of his soul. nay , if you have but eggs to fry , fire is as absolutely necessary as either of the other , though the value of the end be in these cases infinitely different ; for in one of them you lose only your dinner , in the other your life , and in the other your soul. but yet in these cases , fire , cutting , and curing that aversion , are each of them absolutely and equally necessary to their respective ends , because those ends cannot be attained without them . you say farther , cutting for the stone is not always necessary in order to the cure : but the penalties you speak of are altogether necessary ( without extraordinary grace ) to cure that pernicious and otherwise untractable aversion . let it be so ; but do the surgeons know who has this stone , this aversion so , that it will certainly destroy him unless he be cut ? will you undertake to tell when the aversion is such in any man , that it is incurable by preaching , exhortation and intreaty , if his spiritual physician will be instant with him in season , and out of season ; but certainly curable , if moderate force be made use of ? till you are sure of the former of these , you can never say , your moderate force is necessary : till you are sure of the latter , you can never say , it is competent means . what you will determine concerning extraordinary grace , and when god bestows that , i leave you to consider , and speak clearly of it at your leisure . you add , that even where cutting for the stone is necessary , it is withal hazardous by my confession . but your penalties can no way endanger or hurt the soul , but by the fault of him that undergoes them . if the magistrate use force to bring men to the true religion , he must judg which is the true religion ; and he can judg no other to be it but that which he believes to be the true religion , which is his own religion . but for the magistrate to use force to bring men to his own religion , has so much danger in it to mens souls , that by your own confession , none but an atheist will say that magistrates may use force to bring men to their own religion . this i suppose is enough to make good all that i aimed at in my instance of cutting for the stone , which was , that though it were judg'd useful , and i add now necessary to cut men for the stone , yet that was not enough to authorize chirurgions to cut a man , but he must have besides that general one of doing good , some more special commission ; and that which i there mentioned , was the patient's consent . but you tell me , that though , as things now stand , no surgeon has any right to cut his calculous patient without his consent ; yet if the magistrate should by a publick law appoint and authorize a competent number of the most skilful in that art , to visit such as labour under that disease , and to cut those ( whether they consent or not ) whose lives they unanimously judg it impossible to save otherwise : you are apt to think i would find it hard to prove that in so doing he exceeded the bounds of his power : and you are sure it would be as hard to prove that those artists would have no right in that case to cut such persons . shew such a law from the great governor of the universe , and i shall yield that your surgeons shall go to work as fast as you please . but where is the publick law ? where is the competent number of magistrates skilful in the art , who must unanimously judg of the disease and its danger ? you can shew nothing of all this , yet you are so liberal of this sort of cure , that one cannot take you for less than cutting morecraft himself . but , sir , if there were a competent number of skilful and impartial men , who were to use the incision-knife on all in whom they found this stone of aversion to the true religion ; what do you think , would they sind no work in your hospital ? aversion to the true religion you say is of absolute necessity to be ●…ured : what i beseech you is that true religion ? that of the church of england ? for that you own to be the only true religion , and whatever you say , you cannot upon your principles name any other national religion in the world , that you will own to be the true . it being then of absolute necessity that mens aversion to the national religion of england should be cured : has all mankind in whom it has been absolutely necessary to be cured , been furnished with competent and necessary means for the cure of this aversion ? in the next place , what is your necessary and sufficient means for this cure that is of absolute necessity ? and that is moderate penalties made use of by the magistrate , where the national is the true religion , and sufficient means are provided for all mens instruction in the true religion . and here again i ask , have all men to whom this cure is of absolute necessity , been furnished with this necessary means ? thirdly , how is your necessary remedy to be applied ? and that is in a way wherein it cannot work the cure , though we should suppose the true religion the national every where , and all the magistrates in the world zealous for it . to this true religion say you men have a natural and great aversion of absolute necessity to be cured , and the only cure for it is force your way applied , i. e. penalties must be laid upon all that dissent from the national religion , till they conform . why are men averse to the true ? because it crosses the profits and pleasures of this life ; and for the same reason they have an aversion to penalties : these therefore , if they be opposed one to another , and penalties be so laid that men must quit their lusts , and heartily imbrace the true religion or else indure the penalties , there may be some efficacy in force towards bringing men to the true religion : but if there be no opposition between an outward profession of the true religion , and mens lusts ; penalties laid on men till they outwardly conform , are not a remedy laid to the disease . punishments so applied have no opposition to mens lusts , nor from thence can be expected any cure. men must be driven from their aversion to the true religion by penalties they have a greater aversion to . this is all the operation of force . but if by getting into the communion of the national church they can avoid the penalties , and yet retain their natural corruption and aversion to the true religion , what remedy is there to the disease by penalties so applied ? you would , you say , have men made uneasy . this no doubt will work on men , and make them indeavour to get out of this uneasy state as soon as they can . but it will always be by that way wherein they can be most easy ; for 't is the uneasiness alone they fly from , and therefore they will not exchange one uneasiness for another ; not for a greater , nor an equal , nor any at all , if they can help it . if therefore it be so uneasy for men to mortify their lusts , as you tell us , which the true religion requires of them , if they imbrace it in earnest : but which outward conformity to the true religion , or any national church , does not require , what need or use is there of force applied so , that it meets not at all with mens lusts , or aversion to the true religion , but leaves them the liberty of a quiet injoyment of them , free from force and penalties in a legal and approved consormity ? is a man negligent of his soul , and will not be brought to consider ? obstinate , and will not imbrace the truth ? is he careless , and will not be at the pains to examine matters of religion ? corrupt , and will not part with his lusts , which are dearer to him than his first-born ? 't is but owning the national profession , and he may be so still : if he conform , the magistrate has done punishing , he is a son of the church , and need not consider any thing farther for fear of penalties , they are removed , and all is well . so that at last there neither being an absolute necessity that aversion to the true religion should in all men be cured : nor the magistrate being a competent judg who have this stone of aversion , or who have it to that degree as to need force to cure it , or in whom it is curable , were force a proper remedy as it is not : nor having any commission to use it , notwithstanding what you have answered : it is still not only as , but more reasonable for the magistrate , upon pretence of its usefulness or necessity , to cut any one for the stone without his own consent , than to use force your way to cure him of aversion to the true religion . to my question , in whose hands this right ( we were a little above speaking of ) was in turkey , persia or china ? you tell me , you answer roundly and plainly , in the hands of the soveraign , to use convenient penalties for the promoting the true religion . i will not trouble you here with a question you will meet with elsewhere ; who in these countries must be judg of the true religion ? but i will ask , whether you or any wise man would have put a right of using force into a mahumetan or pagan prince's hand , for the promoting of christianity ? which of my pagans or mahumetans would have done otherwise ? but god , you say , has done it , and you make it good by telling me in the following words , if this startle me , then you must tell me farther , that you look upon the supream power to be the same all the world over , in what hands soever it is placed ; and this right to be contained in it : and if those that have it do not use it as they ought , but instead of promoting true religion by proper penalties , set themselves to enforce mahumetanism or paganism , or any other false religion : all that can or that needs be said to the matter , is , that god will one day call them to an account for the neglect of their duty , for the dishonour they do to him , and for the souls that perish by their fault . your taking this right to be a part of the supream power of all civil sovereigns , ( which is the thing in question ) is not , as i take it , proving it to be so . but let us take it so for once , what then is your answer ? god will one day call those sovereigns to an account for the neglect of their duty . the question is not , what god will do with the soveraigns who have neglected their duty ; but how mankind is furnished with your competent means for the promoting of god's honour in the world , and the good of souls in countries where the soveraign is of a wrong religion ? for there , how clearly soever the right of using it be in the soveraign , yet as long as he uses not force to bring his subjects to the true religion , they are destitute of your competent means . for i imagine you do not make the right to use that force , but the actual application of it by penal laws to be your useful and necessary means . for if you think the bare having that right be enough , if that be your sufficient means without the actual use of force , we readily allow it you . and ( as i tell you elsewhere ) i see not then what need you had of miracles to supply the want of the magistrates assistance , till christianity was supported and incouraged by the laws of the empire : for , by your own rule , the magistrates of the world , during the three first centuries after the publishing the christian religion , had the same right , if that had been enough , that they have now in turkey , persia , or china . that this is all that can be said in this matter , i easily grant you ; but that it is all that needs be said to make good your doctrine , i must beg your pardon . in the same sentence wherein you tell me , i should have added necessity to vsefulness , i call it necessary usefulness , which i imagine is not much different . but that with the following words wherein my argument lay , had the ill luck to be overseen ; but if you please to take my argument , as i have now again laid it before you , it will serve my turn . in your next paragraph you tell me , that what is said by me is with the same ingenuity i have used in other places ; my words in that place are these : the author having indeavoured to shew that no body at all of any rank or condition had any power to punish , torment , or use any man ill for matter of religion : you tell us , you do not yet understand why clergymen are not as capable of such power as other men : which words of mine containing in them nothing but true matter of fact , give you no reason to tax my ingenuity : nor will what you alledg make it otherwise than such power ; for if the power you there speak of , were externally coactive power , is not that the same power the author was speaking of , made use of to those ends he mentions of tormenting and punishing ? and do not you own that those who have that power , ought to punish those who offend in rejecting the true religion ? as to the remaining part of that paragraph , i shall leave the reader to judg whether i sought any occasion so much as to name the clergy ; or whether the itching of your fingers to be handling the rod , guided not your pen to what was nothing to the purpose : for the author had not said any thing so much as tending to exclude the clergy from secular imployments , but only ( if you will take your own report of it ) that no ecclesiastical officer , as such , has any externally coactive power ; whereupon you cry out , that you do not yet understand why ecclesiasticks or clergymen are not as capable of such power as other men. had you stood to be constable of your parish , or of the hundred , you might have had cause to vindicate thus your capacity , if orders had been objected to you ; or if your aim be at a justice of the peace , or lord chief justice of england , much more . however you must be allowed to be a man of forecast , in clear-ing the way to secular power , if you know your self , or any of your friends desirous of it : otherwise i confess you have reason to be on this occasion a little out of humour , as you are , for bringing this matter in question so wholly out of season . nor will ( i fear ) the ill-sitted excuse you bring , give your self , or one who consults the places in both yours and the author's letter , a much better opinion of it . however i cannot but thank you for your wonted ingenuity , in saying , that it seems i wanted an occasion to shew my good will to the clergy , and so i made my self one . and to find more work for the excellent gift you have this way , i desire you to read over that paragraph of mine again , and tell me , whether you can find any thing said in it not true ? any advice in it that you your s●…lf would disown ? any thing that any worthy clergyman that adorns his function is concerned in ? and when you have set it down in my words , the world shall be judg , whether i have shewed any ill will to the clergy . till then i may take the liberty to own , that i am more a friend to them and their calling , than those amongst them , who shew their forwardness to leave the word of god to serve other employments . the office of a minister of the gospel requires so the whole man , that the very looking after their poor was by the joint voice of the the twelve apostles , called , leaving the word of god , and serving of tables . but if you think no mens faults can be spoken of without ill will , you will make a very ill prcacher : or if you think this to be so only in speaking of mistakes in any of the clergy , there must be in your opinion something peculiar in their case , that makes it so much a fault to mention any of theirs ; which i must be pardoned for , since i was not aware of it : and there will want but a little cool reflection to convince you , that had not the present church of england a greater number in proportion , than possibly any other age of the church ever had , of those who by their pious lives and labours in their ministry adorn their profession , such busy men as cannot be content to be divines without being lay-men too , would so little keep up the reputation which ought to distinguish the clergy , or preserve the esteem due to a holy , i. e. a separate order , that no body can shew greater good will to them than by taking all occasions to put a stop to any forwardness , to be medling out of their calling . this i suppose made a learned prelate of our church , out of kindness to the clergy , mind them of their stipulation and duty in a late treatise , and tell them that the pastoral care is to be a man's entire business , and to possess both his thoughts and his time. disc. of past. care , p. . to your saying , that the magistrate may lay penalties upon those who refuse to imbrace your doctrine of the proper ministers of religion , or are alienated from the truth : i answered , god never gave the magistrate an authority to be judg of truth for another man. this you g●…ant ; but withal say , that if the magistrate knows the truth , though he has no authority to judg of truth for another man ; yet he may be judg whether other men be alienated from the truth or no ; and so may have authority to lay some penalties upon those whom he sees to be so , to bring them to judg more sincerely for themselves . for example , the doctrine of the proper ministers of religion is , that the three creeds , nice , athanasius's , and that commonly call'd the apostles creed , ought to be thorowly received and believed : as also that the old and new testament contain all things necessary to salvation . the one of these doctrines a papist subject imbraces not ; and a socinian the other . what now is the magistrate by your commission to do ? he is to lay penalties upon them , and continue them : how long ? only till they conform , i. e. till they profess they imbrace these doctrines for true . in which case he does not judg of the truth for other men : he only judges that other men are alienated from the truth . do you not now admire your own subtilty and acuteness ? i that cannot comprehend this , tell you my dull sense in the case . he that thinks another man in an error , judges him , as you phrase it , alienated from the truth , and then judges of truth and falshood only for himself . but if he lays any penalty upon others , which they are to lie under till they embrace for a truth what he judges to be so , he is then so far a judg of truth for those others . this is what i think to judg of truth for another , means : if you will tell me what else it signifies , i am ready to learn. you grant , you say , god never gave the magistrate any authority to be judg of truth for another man : and then add , but how does it follow from thence that he cannot be judg , whether any man be alienated from the truth or no ? and i ask you , who ever said any such thing did follow from thence ? that which i say , and which you ought to disprove , is , that whoever punishes others for not being of the religion he judges to be true , judges of truth for others . but you prove that a man may be judg of truth , without having authority to judg of it for other men , or to prescribe to them what they shall believe ; which you might have spared , till you meet with some body that denies it . but yet your proof of it is worth remembring : rectum ( say you ) est index sui & obliqui . and certainly whoever does but know the truth , may easily judg whether other men be alienated from it or no. but tho rectum be index sui & obliqui ; yet a man may be ignorant of that which is the right , and may take error for truth . the truth of religion when known , shews what contradicts it , is false : but yet that truth may be unknown to the magistrate , as well as to any other man. but you conclude ( i know not upon what ground ) as if the magistrate could not miss it , or were surer to find it than other men. i suppose you are thus favourable only to the magistrate of your own profession , as no doubt in civility a papist or a presbyterian would be to those of his . and then infer ; and therefore if the magistrate knows the truth , though he has no authority to judg of truth for other men , yet he may be judg whether other men be alienated from the truth or no. without doubt ! who denies it him ? 't is a privilege that he and all men have , that when they know the truth , or believe the truth , or have embraced an error for truth , they may judg whether other men are alienated from it or no , if those other men own their opinions in that matter . you go on with your inference , and so may have authority to lay some penalties upon those whom he sees to be so . now , sir , you go a little too fast . this he cannot do without making himself judg of truth for them : the magistrate , or any one may judg , as much as he pleases , of mens opinions and errors ; he in that judges only for himself : but as soon as he uses force to bring them from their own to his opinion , he makes himself judg of truth for them ; let it be to bring them to judg more sincerely for themselves , as you here call it , or under what pretence or colour soever ; for that , what you say , is but a pretence , the very expression discovers . for does any one ever judg insincerely for himself , that he needs penalties to make him judg more sincerely for himself ? a man may judg wrong for himself , and may be known or thought to do so : but who can either know or suppose another is not sincere in the judgment he makes for himself , or ( which is the same thing ) that any one knowingly puts a mixture of falshood into the judgment he makes ? for as speaking insincerely is to speak otherwise than one thinks , let what he says be true or false ; so judging insincerely must be to judg otherwise than one thinks , which i imagine is not very feasible . but how improper soever it be to talk of judging insincerely for one's self , it was better for you in that place to say , penalties were to bring men to judg more sincerely , rather than to say , more rightly , or more truly : for had you said , the magistrate might use penalties to bring men to judg more truly , that very word had plainly discovered , that he made himself a judg of truth for them . you therefore wisely chose to say what might best cover this contradiction to your self , whether it were sense or no , which perhaps whilst it sounded well , every one would not stand to examine . one thing give me leave here to observe to you , which is , that when you speak of the entertainment subjects are to give to truth , i. e. the true religion , you call it believing ; but this in the magistrate you call knowing . now let me ask you , whether any magistrate , who laid penalties on any who dissented from what he judged the true religion , or as you call it here , were alienated from the truth , was or could be determined in his judging of that truth by any assurance greater than believing ? when you have resolved that , you will then see to what purpose is all you have said here concerning the magistrate's knowing the truth ; which at last amounting to no more than the assurance wherewith a man certainly believes and receives a thing for true , will put every magistrate under the same , if there be any obligation to use force , whilst he believes his own religion . besides , if a magistrate knows his r●…ligion to be true , he is to use means not to make his people believe , but know it also ; knowledg of them , if that be the way of entertaining the truths of religion , being as necessary to the subjects as the magistrate . i never heard yet of a master of mathematicks , who had the care of informing others in those truths , who ever went about to make any one believe one of euclid's propositions . the pleasantness of your answer , notwithstanding what you say , doth remain still the same : for you making , ( as is to be seen ) the power of the magistrate ordained for the bringing men to take such care as they ought of their salvation ; the reason why it is every man's interest to vest this power in the magistrate , must suppose this power so ordained , before the people vested it ; or else it could not be an argument for their vesting it in the magistrate . for if you had not here built upon your fundamental supposition , that this power of the ma●…istrate is ordained by god to that end , the proper and intelligible way of expressing your meaning had not been to say as you do ; as the power of the magistrate is ordained for bringing , &c. so if we suppose this power vested in the magistrate by the people : in which way of speaking this power of the magistrate is evidently supposed already ordained . but a clear way of making your meaning understood , had been to say , that for the people to ordain such a power of the magistrate , or to vest such a power in the magistrate , ( which is the same thing ) was their true interest : but whether it were your meaning or your expression that was guilty of the absurdity , i shall leave it with the reader . as to the other pleasant thing of your answer , it will still appear by barely reciting it : the pleasant thing i charge on you is , that you say , that the power of the magistrate is to bring men to such a care of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any person , or their own lusts or passions , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace ; and yet that 't is their best course to vest a power in the magistrate , liable to the same lusts and passions as themselves , to chuse for them . to this you answer , by asking where it is that you say that it is the peoples best course to vest a power in the magistrate to choose for them , that you tell me i do not pretend to shew ? if you had given your self the pains to have gone on to the end of the paragraph , or will be pleased to read it as i have here again set it down for your perusal , you will find that i at least pretended to shew it : my words are these ; if they vest a power in the magistrate , to punish them when they dissent from his religion , to bring them to act even against their own inclination , according to reason and sound judgment , which is ( as you explain your self in another place ) to bring them to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them ; how far is this from leaving it to the choice of another man to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall embrace ? thus far you cite my words , to which let me join the remaining part of the paragraph , to let you see that i pretended to shew that the course you proposed to the people as best for them , was to vest a power in the magistrate to choose for them . my words which follow those where you left off , are these ; especially if we consider that you think it a strange thing , that the author would have the care of every man's soul left to himself . so that this care being vested in the magistrate , with a power to punish men to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the truth of his religion ; the choice is evidently in the magistrate , as much as it can be in the power of one man to chuse for another what religion he shall be of ; which consists only in a power of compelling him by punishments to embrace it . but all this you tell me , is just nothing to my purpose : why i beseech you ? because you speak not of the magistrate's religion , but of the true religion , and that proposed with sufficient evidence . the case in short is this ; men are apt to be misled by their passions , lusts , and other men in the choice of their religion . for this great evil you propose a remedy , which is , that men ( for you must remember you are here speaking of the people putting this power into the magistrate's hand ) should chuse some of their fellow-men , and give them a power by force to guard them , that they might not be alienated from the truth by their own passions , lusts , or by other men. so it was in the first scheme ; or , as you have it now , to punish them , whenever they rejected the true religion , and that proposed with sufficient evidence of the truth of it . a pretty remedy , and manifestly effectual at first sight : that because men were all promiscuously apt to be misled in their judgment , or choice of their reli●…ion , by passion , lust , and other men , therefore they should chuse some amongst themselves , who might , they and their successors , men made just like themselves , punish them when they rejected the true religion . if the blind lead the blind , both shall fall into the ditch , says our saviour . if men apt to be misled by their passions and lusts , will guard themselves from falling into error , by punishments laid on them , by men as apt to be misled by passions and lusts as themselves , how are they the safer from falling into error ? now hear the insallible remedy for this inconvenience , and admire : the men to whom they have given this power , must not use it , till they find those who gave it them in an error . a friend , to whom i shewed this expedient , answered , this is none : for why is not a man as fit to judg for himself when he is in an error , as another to judg for him , who is as liable to error himself ? i answered , this power however in the other can do him no harm , but may indirectly , and at a distance , do him good ; because the magistrate who has this power to punish him , must never use it but when he is in the right , and he that is punish'd is in the wrong . but , said my friend , who shall be judg whether he be in the right or no ? for men in an error think themselves in the right , and that as confidently as those who are most so . to which i replied , no body must be judg ; but the magistrate may know when he is in the right . and so may the subject too ( said my friend ) as well as the magistrate , and therefore it was as good still be free from a punishment , that gives a man no more security from error than he had without it . besides , said he , who must be judg whether the magistrate knows or no ? for he may mistake , and think it to be knowledg and certainty , when it is but opinion and belief . it is no matter , for that in this scheme , replied i , the magistrate we are told may know which is the true religion , and he must not use force but to bring men to the true religion ; and if he does , god will one day call him to an account for it , and so all is safe . as safe as beating the air can make a thing , replied my friend : for if believing , being assured , confidently being perswaded that they know that the religion they prosess is true , or any thing else short of true knowledg will serve the turn , all magistrates will have this power alike , and so men will be well guarded , or recovered from false religions ; by putting it into the magistrate's hand to punish them when they have alienated themselves from it . if the magistrate be not to punish men but when he knows , i. e. is infallibly certain ( for so is a man in what he knows ) that his national religion is all true , and knows also , that it has been proposed to those he punishes with sufficient evidence of the truth of it : 't would have been as good this power had never been given him , since he will never be in a condition to exercise it ; and at best it was given him to no purpose , since those who gave it him were one with another as little indisposed to consider impartially , examine diligently , study , find , and infallibly know the truth as he . but , said he at parting , to talk thus of the magistrates punishing men that reject the true religion , without telling us , who those magistrates are , who have a power to judg which is the true religion , is to put this power in all magistrates hands alike , or none . for to say he only is to be judg which is the true religion , who is of it , is but to begin the round of enquiries again , which can at last end no where but in every one's supposing his own to be it . but , said he , if you will continue to talk on thus , there is nothing more to be done with you , but to pity or laugh at you , and so he left me . i assure you , sir , i urged this part of your hypothesis , with all the advantage i thought your answer afforded me : and if i have erred in it , or there be any way to get out of the strait ( if force must in your way be used ) either of the magistrates punishing men for rejecting the true religion , without judging which is the true religion ; or else that the magistrate should judg which is the true religion ; which way ever of the two you shall determine it ; i see not of what advantage it can be to the people ( to keep them from chusing amiss ) that this power of punishing them should be put into the magistrate's hands . and then , if the magistrate must judg which is the true religion , ( as how he should without judging , punish any one who rejects it , is hard to find ) and punish men who reject it till they do imbrace it , ( let it be to make them consider , or what you please ) he does , i think , chuse their religion for them . and if you have not the dexterity to chuse the national religion , where-ever you are , i doubt not but you would think so too if you were in france , though there were none but moderate penalties laid on you to bring you even against your own inclination to act according to what they there call reason and sound judgment . that paragraph and mine to which it is an answer , runs thus . l. . pag. . i do neither you nor the magistrate injury , when i say that the power you give the magistrate of punishing men , to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them , is to convince them of the truth of his religion , and to bring them to it . for men will never , in his opinion , act according to reason and sound judgment , ( which is the thing you here say men should be brought to by the magistrate , even against their own inclination ) till they imbrace his religion . and if you have the brow of an honest man , you will not say the magistrate will ever punish you , to bring you to consider any other reasons and arguments , but such as are proper to convince you of the truth of his religion , and to bring you to that . thus you shift forwards and backwards . you say , the magistrate has no power to punish men , to compel them to his religion ; but only to compel them to consider reasons and arguments proper to convince them of the truth of his religion ; which is all one as to say , no body has power to chuse your way for you to jerusalem ; but yet the lord of the mannor has power to punish you , to bring you to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince you ( of what ? ) that the way he goes in , is the right , and so to make you join in company , and go along with him . so that , in effect , what is all your going about , but to come at last to the same place again ; and put a power into the magistrate's hands , ( under another pretence ) to compel men to his religion ; which use of force the author has sufficiently overthrown , and you your self have quitted . but i am tired to follow you so often round the same circle . l. . pag. . but it seems you have not done with this yet : for you say , you do neither me nor the magistrate injury , when you say that the power i give the magistrate , of punishing men to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them , is to convince them of the truth of his religion , ( whatever that be ) and to bring them to it . which seems a little strange and pleasant too . but thus you prove it : for men will never , in his opinion , act according to reason and sound judgment , till they imbrace his religion . and if you have the brow of an honest man , you will not say the magistrate will ever punish you , to bring you to consider any other reasons and arguments but such as are proper to convince you of the truth of his religion , and to bring you to that . which ( besides the pleasant talk of such reasons and arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of the magistrate's religion , though it be a false one ) is just as much as to say , it is so , because in the magistrate's opinion it is so ; and because it is not to be expected that he will act against his opinion . as if the magistrate's opinion could change the nature of things , and turn a power to promote the true religion , into a power to promote a false one . no , sir , the magistrate's opinion has no such virtue . it may indeed keep him from exercising the power he has to promote the true religion ; and it may lead him to abuse the pretence of it , to the promo●…ing a false one : but it can neither destroy that power , nor make it any thing but what it is . and therefore whatever the magistrate's opinion be , his power was given him ( as the apostles power was to them ) for edification only , not for destruction : and it may always be said of him , ( what st. paul said of himself ) that he can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth . and therefore if the magistrate punishes me , to bring me to a false religion ; it is not his opinion that will excuse him , when he comes to answer for it to his judg. for certainly men are as accountable for their opinions ( those of them , i mean , which influence their practice ) as they are for their actions . here is therefore no shifting forwards and backwards , as you pretend ; nor any circle , but in your own imagination . for though it be true that i say , the magistrate has no power to punish men , to compel them to his religion ; yet i no where say , nor will it follow from any thing i do say , that he has power to compel them to consider reasons and arguments proper to convince them of the truth of his religion . but i do not much wonder that you indeavour to put this upon me . for i think by this time it is pretty plain , that otherwise you would have but little to say : and it is an art very much in use among some sort of learned men , when they cannot confute what an adversary does say , to make him say what he does not ; that they may have something which they can confute . the beginning of this answer is part of the old song of triumph ; what! reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of falshood ? yes , sir , the magistrate may use force to make men consider those reasons and arguments , which he thinks proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of his religion , though his religion be a false one . and this is as possible for him to do , as for a man , as learned as your self , to write a book , and use arguments , as he thinks proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of his opinion , though it be a falshood . as to the remaining part of your answer , the question is not , whether the magistrate's opinion can change the nature of things , or the power he has , or excuse him to his judg for misusing of it ? but this , that since all magistrates in your opinion have commission , and are obliged to promote the true religion by force , and they can be guided in the discharge of this duty by nothing but their own opinion of the true religion , what advantage can this be to the true religion , what benefit to their subjects , or whether it amounts to any more than a commission to every magistrate to use force for the promoting his own religion ? to this question therefore you will do well to apply your answer , which a man of less skill than you will be scarce able to do . you tell us indeed , that whatever the magistrate's opinion be , his power was given him ( as the apostles power was to them ) for edification only , and not for destruction . but if the apostles power had been given them for one end , and st. paul , st. peter , and nine others of the twelve had had nothing to guide them but their own opinion , which led them to another end ; i ask you whether the edification of the church could have been carried on as it was ? you tell us farther , that it may always be said of the magistrate , ( what st. paul said of himself ) that he can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth . witness the k. of france . if you say this in the same sense that st. paul said it of himself , who in all things requisite for edification , had the immediate direction and guidance of the unerring spirit of god , and so was infallible , we need not go to rome for an infallible guide , every country has one in their magistrate . if you apply these words to the magistrate in another sense , than what st. paul spoke them in of himself , sober men will be apt to think , you have a great care to insinuate into others a high veneration for the magistrate ; but that you your self have no over-great reverence for the scripture , which you thus use ; nor for truth , which you thus defend . to deny the magistrate to have a power to compel men to his religion : but yet to say the magistrate has a power , and is bound to punish men to make them consider till they cease to reject the true religion , of which true religion he must be judg , or else nothing can be done in discharge of this his duty , is so like going round about to come to the same place , that it will always be a circle in mine and other peoples imagination , and not only there , but in your hypothesis . all that you say turns upon the truth or falshood of this proposition ; that whoever punishes any one in ma●…ters of religion to make him consider , takes upon him to be judg for another what is right in matters of religion . this you think plainly involves a contradiction ; and so it would , if these general terms had in your use of them their ordinary and usual meaning . but , sir , be but pleased to take along with you , that whoever punishes any man your way in matters of religion , to make him consider , as you use the word consider , takes upon him to be judg for another what is right in matters of religion : and you will find it so far from a contradiction , that it is a plain truth . for your way of punishing is a peculiar way , and is this ; that the magistrate , where the national religion is the true religion , should punish those who dissent from it , to make them consider as they ought , i. e. till they cease to reject , or , in other words , till they conform to it . if therefore he punishes none but those who dissent from , and punishes them till they conform to that which he judges the true religion , does he not take on him to judg for them what is the true religion ? 't is true indeed what you say , there is no other reason to punish another to make him consider , but that he should judg for himself : and this will always hold true amongst those , who when they speak of considering , mean considering , and nothing else . but then these things will follow from thence : . that in inflicting of penalties to make men consider , the magistrate of a country , where the national religion is false , no more misapplies his power , than he whose religion is true ; for one has as much right to punish the negligent to make them consider , study and examine matters of religion , as the other . . if the magistrate punishes men in matters of religion , truly to make them consider , he will punish all that do not consider , whether conformists or nonconformists . . if the magistrate punishes in matters of religion to make men consider , it is , as you say , to make men judg for themselves : for there is no use of considering , but in order to judging . but then when a man has judg'd for himself , the penalties for not considering are to be taken off : for else your saying that a man is punished to make him consider , that he may judg for himself , is plain mockery . so that either you must reform your scheme , or allow this proposition to be true , viz. whoever punishes any man in matters of religion , to make him in your sense consider , takes upon him to judg for another what is right in matters of religion : and with it the conclusion , viz. therefore whoever punishes any one in matters of religion , to make him consider , takes upon him to do what no man can do , and consequently misapplies his power of punishing , if he has that power . which conclusion you say you should readily admit as sufficiently demonstrated , if the proposition before mentioned were true . but further , if it could enter into the head of any law-maker but you , to punish men for the omission of , or to make them perform any internal act of the mind , such as is consideration . whoever in matter of religion would lay an injunction on men to make them consider , could not do it without judging for them in matters of religion , unless they had no religion at all , and then they come not within our author's toleration , which is a toleration only of men of different religions , or of different opinions in religion . for supposing you the magistrate with full power and ( as you imagin'd ) right of punishing any one in matters of religion , how could you possibly punish any one to make him consider , without judging for him what is right in matters of religion ? i will suppose my self brought before your worship , under what character you please , and then i desire to know what one or more questions you would ask me , upon my answer to which you could judg me fit to be punished to make me consider , without taking upon you to judg f●…r me what is right in matters of religion ? for i conclude from the fashion of my coat , or the colour of my eyes , you would not judg that i ought to be punished in matters of religion to make me consider . if you could , i should allow you not only as capable , but much more capable of coactive power than other men. but since you could not judg me to need punishment in matters of religion , to make me consider , without knowing my thoughts concerning religion , we will suppose you ( being of the church of england ) would examine me in the catechism and liturgy of that church , which possibly i could neither say nor answer right to 't is like , upon this you would judg me fit to be pu●…ished to make me consider . wherein , 't is evident , you judg'd for me , that the religion of the church of england was right ; for without that judgment of yours you would not have punished me . we will suppose you to go yet farther , and examine me concerning the gospel , and the truth of the principles of the christian religion , and you find me answer therein not to your liking : here again no doubt you will p●…nish me to make me consider ; but is it not because you judg for me , that the christian religion is the right ? go on thus as far as you will , and till you find i had no religion at all , you could not punish me to make me to consider , without taking upon you to judg for me what is right in matters of religion . to punish without a fault , is injustice ; and to punish a man without judging him guilty of that fault , is also injustice ; and to punish a man who has any religion to make him consider , or , which is the same thing , for not having sufficiently considered , is no more nor less , but punishing him for not being of the religion you think best for him ; that is the fault , and that is the fault you judg him guilty of , call it considering as you please : for let him fall into the hands of a magistrate of whose religion he is , he judgeth him to have considered sufficiently . from whence 't is plain , 't is religion is judg'd of , and not consideration , or want of consideration . and 't is in vain to pretend that he is punish'd to make him judg for himself : for he that is of any religion , has already judg'd for himself ; and if you punish him after that , under pretence to make him consider that he may judg for himself , 't is plain you punish him to make him judg otherwise than he has already judg'd , and to judg as you have judg'd for him . your next paragraph complains of my not having contradicted the following words of yours , which i had cited out of your a. p. . which that the reader may judg of , i shall here set down again . and all the hurt that comes to them by it , is only the suffering some tolerable inconveniences , for their following the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences : which certainly is no such mischief to mankind , as to make it more eligible , that there should be no such power vested in the magistrate ; but the care of every man's soul should be left to him alone , ( as this author demands it should be : ) that is , that every man should be suffered quietly , and without the least molestation , either to take no care at all of his soul , if he be so pleased ; or in doing it , to follow his own groundless prejudices , or unaccountable humour , or any crafty seducer , whom he may think fit to take for his guide . to which i shall here subjoin my answer and your reply . l. . p. . why should not the care of every man's soul be left to himself , rather than the magistrate ? is the magistrate like to be more concern'd for it ? is the magistrate like to take more care of it ? is the magistrat commonly more careful of his own , than other men are of theirs ? will you say the magistrate is less expos'd in matters of religion , to prejudices , humours , and crafty seducers , than other men ? if you cannot lay your hand on your heart , and say all this , what then will be got by the change ? and why may not the care of every man's soul be left to himself ? especially , if a man be in so much danger to miss the truth , who is suffered quietly , and without the least 〈◊〉 , either to take no care of his soul , if he be so pleased , or to follow his own prejudices , &c. for if want of molestation be the dangerous state wherein men are likeliest to miss the right way , it must be confessed , that of all men , the magistrate is most in danger to be in the wrong , and so the unfittest ( if you take the care of mens souls from themselves ) of all men , to be intrusted with it . for he never me●… with that great and only 〈◊〉 of yours against error , which you here call molestation . he never has the benefit of your soverain remedy , punishment , to make him consider ; which you think so necessary , that you look on it as a most dangerous state for men to be without it ; and therefore tell us , 't is every man's true 〈◊〉 , not to be left wholly to himself in matters of religion . l. . p. . 〈◊〉 words you set down at large ; but instead of contradicting them , or offering 〈◊〉 show that the mischi●…t spoken of , is such 〈◊〉 ●…akes it more eligible , &c. you only deman●… why s●…uld not the care of every man's ●…l be le●… 〈◊〉 himself , rather than the 〈◊〉 ? is the magistrate like to be more concern'd for it ? is the magistrate like to take more care of it ? &c. as if not to leave the care of every man's soul to himself alone , were , as you express it afterwards , to take the care of mens souls from themselves : or as if to vest a power in the magistrate , to procure as much as in him lies ( i. e. as far as it can be procured by convenient penalties ) that men take such care of their souls as they ought to do , were to leave the care of their souls to the magistrate rather than to themselves : which no man but your self will imagine . i acknowledg as freely as you can do , that as every man is more concern'd than any man else can be , so he is likewise more obliged to take care of his soul ; and that no man can by any means be discharged of the care of his soul ; which , when all is done , will never be saved but by his own care of it . but do i contradict any thing of this , when i say , that the care of every man's soul ought not to be left to himself alone ? or , that it is the interest of mankind , that the magistrate be entrusted and obliged to take care , as far as lies in him , that no man neglect his own soul ? i thought , i confess , that every man was i●… some sort charged with the care of his neighbour's soul. but in your way of reasoning , he that affirms this , takes away the care of every man's soul 〈◊〉 himself , and leaves it to his neighbour rather than to himself . but if this be plainly absurd , as every one sees it is , then so it must be likewise to say , that he that vests such a power as we here speak of in the magistrate , takes away the care of mens souls from themselves , and places it in the magistrate , rather than in themselves . what trisling then is it to say here , if you cannot lay your hand upon your heart , and say all this , ( viz. that the magistrate is like to be more concerned for other mens souls than themselves , &c. ) what then will be got by the change ? for 't is plain , here is no such change as you would insinuate : but the care of souls which i assert to the magistrate , is so far from discharging any man of the care of his own soul , or lessening his obligation to it , that it serves to no other purpose in the world , but to bring men , who otherwise would not , to consider and do what the interest of their souls obliges them to . 't is therefore manifest , that the thing here to be consider'd , is not , whether the magistrate be like to be more concern'd for other mens souls , or to take more care of them than themselves : nor , whether he be commonly more careful of his own soul , than other men are of theirs : nor , whether he be less exposed , in matters of religion , to prejudices , humours , and crafty seducers , than other men : nor yet , whether he be not more in danger to be in the wrong than other men , in regard that he never meets with that great and only antidote of mine ( as you call it ) against error , which i here call molestation . but the point upon which this matter turns , is only this , whether the salvation of souls be not better provided for , if the magistrate be obliged to procure , as much as in him lies , that every man take such care as he ought of his soul , than if he be not so obliged , but the care of every man's soul be left to himself alone : which certainly any man of common sense may easily determine . for as you will not , i suppose , deny but god has more amply provided for the salvation of your own soul , by obliging your neighbour , as well as your self , to take care of it ; tho 't is possible your neighbour may not be more concern'd for it , than your self ; or may not be more careful of his own soul , than you are of yours ; or may be no less exposed , in matters of religion , to prejudices , &c. than you are ; because if you are your self wanting to your own soul , it is more likely that you will be brought to take care of it , if your neighbour be obliged to admonish and exhort you to it , than if he be not ; tho●…h it may fall out that he will not do what he is obliged to do in that case : so i think it cannot be denied , but the salvation of all mens souls is better provided for , if besides the obligation which every man has to take care of his own soul , ( and that which every man's neighbour has likewise to do it ) the magistrate also be ●…trusted and obliged to see that no man ●…trusted his soul , than it would be , if every man were left to himself in this matter : because though we should admit that the magistrate is not like to be , or is not ordinarily more concern'd for other mens souls , than they themselves are , &c. it is nevertheless undeni●…bly true still , that whoever neglects his soul , is more likely to be brought to take care of it , if the magistrate be obliged to do what lies in him to bring him to do it , than if he be not . which is enough to shew , that it is every man 's true interest , that the care of his soul should not be left to himself alone , but that the magistrate should be so far entrusted with it as i contend that he is . your complaint of my not having formally contradicted the words above cited 〈◊〉 of a. p. . looking as if there were some weighty argument in them : i must inform my reader , that they are subjoin'd to thos , wherein you recommend the use of force in 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , by the gain those that are punish'd shall make by it , though it be misapplied by the magistrate to bring them to a wrong religion . so that these words of yours , all the hurt that comes to them by it , is all the 〈◊〉 that comes to men by a 〈◊〉 of the magistrate's power , when being of a 〈◊〉 religion he uses force to bring men to it . and then your proposition stands thus , that the suffering what you call tolerable inconveniences for their following the light of their own reasons , and the dictates of their own consciences , is no such mischief to mankind as to make it more eligible , that there should be no power vested in the magistrate to use force to bring men to the true religion , though the magistrates misapply this power , i. e. use it to bring men to their own religion when false . this is the sum of what you say , if it has any coherent meaning in it : for it being to shew the usefulness of such a power , vested in the magistrate , under the miscarriages and misapplications it is in common practice observed to be liable to , can have no other sense . but i having proved , that if such a power be by the law of nature vested in the magistrate , every magistrate is obliged to use it for the promoting of his religion as far as he believes it to be true , shall not much trouble my self , if like a man of art you should use your skill to give it another sense : for such is your natural talent or great caution , that you love to speak indesinitely , and as seldom as may be leave your self accountable for any propositions of a clear determined sense ; but under words of doubtful , but 〈◊〉 plausible signification , conceal a meaning , which plainly expressed would at first sight appear to contradict your own positions , or common sense : instances whereof more than one we have here in this sentence of yours . for , . the words tolerable inconveniences carry a very fair shew of some very 〈◊〉 matter ; and yet when we come to examine them , may comprehend any of those severities lately used in france . for these tolerable inconveniences are the same you in this very page and elsewhere call convenient penalties . convenient for what ? in this very place they must 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as may keep men from following their own groundless 〈◊〉 , unaccountable humours , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and you tell us , the magistrate may require men under convenient penalties to forsake their false religions , and imbrace the true . who now must be judg , in these cases , what are convenient penalties ? common sense will tell us , the magistrate that uses them : but besides we have your word for it , that the magistrate's prudence and experience inables him to judg best what penalties do agree with your rule of moderation , which as i have shewe is no rule at all . so that at last your tolerable inconveni●…●…ces are such as the magistrate shall judg convenient to oppose to mens prejudices , humours , and to seducers ; such as he shall think convenient to bring men from their false religions , or to punish their rejecting the true ; which whether they will not reach mens estates and liberties , or go as far as any the king of france has used , is more than you can be security for . . another set of good words we have here , which at first hearing are apt to ingage mens concern , as if too much could not be done to recover men from so perilous a state as they seem to describe ; and those are men following their own groundless prejudices , unaccountable humours , or crafty seducers . are not these expressions to set forth a deplorable condition , and to move pity in all that hear them ? enough to make the unattentive reader ready to cry out , help for the lord's sake ; do any thing rather than suffer such poor prejudiced seduced people to be eternally lost . whereas he that examines what persons these words can in your scheme describe , will find they are only such as any where dissent from those articles of faith and ceremonies of outward worship , which the magistrate , or at least you his director approve of . for whilst you talk thus of the true religion in general , ( and that so general , that you cannot allow your self to descend so near to particulars , as to recommend the searching and study of the scriptures to find it ) and that the power in the magistrates hands to use force , is to bring men to the true religion ; i ask , whether you do not think , either he or you must be judg , which is the true religion , before he can exercise that power ? and then he must use his force upon all those who dissent from it , who are then the prejudiced , humoursom , and seduced you here speak of . unless this be so , and the magistrate be judg , i ask , who shall resolve which is the prejudiced person , the prince with his politicks , or he that suffers for his religion ? which the more dangerous seducer , lewis the xlvth with his dragoons , or mr. claud with his sermons ? it will be no small difficulty to sind out the persons who are guilty of following groundless prejudices , unaccountable humours , or crafty seducers , unless in those places where you shall be graciously pleased to decide the question ; and out of the plenitude of your power and infallibility to declare which of the civil sovereigns now in being do , and which do not espouse the one only true religion , and then we shall certainly know that those who dissent from the religion of those magistrates , are these prejudiced , humourso●… , seduced persons . but truly as you put it here , you leave the matter very perplex'd , when you defend the eligibleness of vesting a power in the magistrates hands , to remedy by penalty mens following their own groundless prejudices , unaccountable humours , and cra●…y seducers , when in the same sentence you suppose the magistrate who is vested with this power , may inslict those penalties on men , for their following the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences ; which when you have considered , perhaps you will not think my answer so wholly besides the matter , though it shewed you but that one absurdity , without a formal contradiction to so loose and undetermin'd a proposition , that it required more pains to unravel the sense of what was covered under deceitful expressions , than the weight of the matter contained in them was worth . for besides what is already said to it : how is it possible for any one ( who had the greatest mind in the world to contradiction ) to deny it to be more eligible that such a power should be vested in the magistrate , till he knows , to whom you affirm it to be more eligible ? is it more eligible to those who suffer by it , for following the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences ? for these you know are gainers by it , for they know better than they did before where the truth does lie . is it more eligible to those who have no other thoughts of religion , but to be of that of their country without any farther examination ? or is it more eligible to those who think it their duty to examine matters of religion , and to follow that which upon examination appears to them the truth ? the former of these two make , i think , the greater part of mankind , though the latter be the better advised : but upon what grounds it should be more eligible to either of them , that the magistrate should , than that he should not have a power vested in him to use force to bring men to the true religion , when it cannot be imployed but to bring men to that which he thinks the true , i. e. to his own religion , is not easy to guess . or is it more eligible to the priests and ministers of national religions every-where , that the magistrate should be vested with this power ? who being sure to be orthodox , will have right to claim the assistance of the magistrate's power to bring those whom their arguments , or no arguments can prevail on , to imbrace their true religion , and to worship god in decent ways prese●…d by those to whom god has left the ordering of such matters . or last of all , is it more eligible to all mankind ? and are the magistrates of the world so careful or so lucky in the choice of their reli●…ion , that it would be an advantage to mankind , that they should have a right to do what in them lies , i. e. to use all the force they have , if they think convenient , to bring men to the religion they think true ? when you have told us to which of these or what other , it is more eligible ; i suppose the reader will without my contradicting it , see how little truth there is in it , or how little to your purpose . if you will pardon me for not having contradicted that passage of yours we have been considering , i will indeavour to make you amends in what you say in reply to my answer to it , and tell you that , notwithstanding all you say to the contrary , such a power as you would have to be vested in the magistrate , takes away the care of mens souls from themselves , and places it in the magistrate , rather than in themselves . for if when men have examined , and upon examination imbrace what appears to them the true religion , the magistrate has a right to treat them as misled by prejudice , humour , or seducers ; if he may use what force , and inslict what punishments he shall think convenient till they conform to the religion the magistrate judges the true ; i think you will scarce deny , but that the care of their souls is by such a power placed rather in the magistrate than in themselves , and taken as much from them as by force and authority it can be . this , whatever you pretend , is the power which your system places in the magistrate . nor can he upon your principles exercise it otherwise , as i imagine i have shewed . you speak here , as if this power , which you would have to be vested in the magistrate , did not at all discharge , but assist the care every one has or ought to have of his own soul. i grant , were the power you would place in the magistrate such as every man has to take care of his neighbour's soul , which is to express it self only by counsel , arguments and perswasion ; it left him still the free liberty of judging for himself ; and so the care of his soul remained still in his own hands . but if men be perswaded , that the wise and good god has vested a power in the magistrate , to be so far judg for them , what is the true religion , as to punish them for rejecting the religion which the magistrate thinks the true , when offer'd with such evidence as he judges sufficient to convince them ; and to punish them on till they consider so as to imbrace it ; what remains , but that they render themselves to the care and conduct of a guide that god in his goodness has appointed them , who having authority and commission from god to be judg for them , which is the true religion , and what are arguments proper and sufficient to convince any one of it ; and he himself being convinc'd of it , why should they be so foolish , as to suffer punishments in opposition to a power which is in the right , and they ought to submit to ? to what purpose should they , under the weight of penalties waste time and pains in examining , since whatever they should judg upon examination , the magistrate judging the arguments and reasons he offers for the truth of his religion , proper and sufficient to convince them , they must still lie under the punishment the magistrate shall think convenient till they do comply ? besides , when they are thus punished by their magistrate for not conforming , what need they examine ? since you tell them , it is not strictly necessary to salvation , that all that are of the true religion should understand the grounds of it . the magistrate being of the one only true religion , knows it to be so●… and he knows that that religion was tender'd to them with sufficient evidence , and therefore is obliged to punish them for rejecting it . this is that which men must upon your scheme suppose ; for it is , what you your self must suppose , before the magistrate can exercise that power you contend to be vested in him , as is evident to any one , who will put your system together , and particularly weigh what you say . when therefore men are put into such a state as this , that the magistrate may judg which is the true religion ; the magistrate may judg what is sufficient evidence of its truth ; the magistrate may be judg to whom it is tender'd with sufficient evidence , and punish them that reject it so proposed with such penalties as he also shall judg convenient , and all this by god's appointment , and an authority received from the wise and benign governor of all things , i ask , whether the care of mens souls are not taken out of their own hands , and put into the magistrates ? whether in such a state they can or will think there is any need , or that it is to any purpose for them to examine ? and whether this be a cure for the natural aversion that is in men to consider and weigh matters of religion ; and the way to force , or so much as incourage them to examine ? but , say you , the salvation of all mens souls is better provided for , if besides the obligation that every man has to take care of his own soul , the magistrate also be intrusted and obliged to see that no man neglect his own soul , than it would be if every man were left to himself in that matter . whatever ground another may have to say this , you can have none : you who give so good reason why conformists , though never so ignorant and negligent in examining matters of religion , cannot yet be punished to make them consider , must acknowledg that all mens salvation is not the better provided for by a power vested in the magistrate , which cannot reach the far greatest part of men , which are every-where the conformist to the national religion . you that plead so well for the magistrates not examining whether those that conform , do it upon reason and conviction , but say it is ordinary presumable they do so ; wherein i beseech you do you put this care of mens salvation that is placed in the magistrate ? even in bringing them to outward conformity to the national religion , and there leaving them . and are the souls of all mankind the better provided for , if the magistrates of the world are vested with a power to use force to bring men to an outward profession of what they think the true religion , without any other care of their salvation ? for ●…hither , and no farther , reaches their use of force in your way of applying it . give me leave therefore to trifle with you once again , and to desire you to lay your hand upon your heart , and tell me what mankind shall gain by the change ? for i hope by this time it is not so much a paradox to you , that if the magistrate be commissioned by god to take care of mens souls , in your way it takes away the care of mens souls from themselves in all those who have need of this assistance of the magistrate , i. e. all those who neglect to consider , and are averse to examination . one thing more give me leave to observe to you , and that is , that taking care of mens souls or taking care that they neglect not their souls , and laying penalties on them to bring them in outward profession to the national religion are two very different things , though in this place and elsewhere you confound them , and would have penal laws , requiring church-conformity , pass under the name of care of mens souls , for that is the utmost your way of applying force does or can reach to ; and what care is therein taken of mens souls , may be seen by the lives and knowledg observable in not a few conformists . this is not said to lay any blame on conformity , but to shew how improperly you speak , when you call penal laws made to promote conformity , and force used to bring men to it , a care of mens souls ; when even the exactest observers , and most zealous advancers of conformity may be as irreligious , ignorant , and vicious as any other men. in the first treatise we heard not a syllable of any other use or end of force in matters of religion , but only to make men consider . but in your second , being forced to own bare-faced the punishing of men for their religion , you call it , a vice to reject the true faith , and to refuse to worship god in decent ways prescribed by those to whom god has left the ordering of it ; and tell us , that it is a fault which may justly be punished by the magistrate , not to be of the national religion , where the true is the national religion . to make this doctrine of persecution seem limited , and go down the better , to your telling us it must be only where the national religion is the true , and that the penalties must be moderate and convenient ; both which limitations having no other judg but the magistrate , ( as i have shewed elsewhere ) are no li●… at all , you in words add a third , that in effect si●…nifies just as much as the other two : and that is , if there be s●…fficient means of instruction provided for all for instructing them in the truth of it ; of which provision the magistrate also being to be judg , your limitation●… leave him as free to punish all dissenters from his own religion , as any persecutor can wish : for what he will think sufficient means of instruction , it will be hard for you to say . in the mean time , as far as may be gathered from what you say in another place , we will examine what you think sufficient provision for instructing men , which you have expressed in these words ; for if the magistrate provides sufficiently for the instruction of all his subjects in the true religion , and then requires them all under convenient penalties to hearken to the teachers and ministers of it , and to profess and exercise it with one accord under their direction in publick assemblies . that which stumbles one at the first view of this your method of instruction is , that you leave it uncertain , whether dissenters must first be instructed , and then profess ; or else first profess , and then be instructed in the national religion . this you will do well to be a little more clear in the next time ; for you mentioning no instruction but in publick assemblies , and perhaps meaning it for a country where there is little other pains taken with dissenters but the confutation and condemnation of them in assemblies , where they are not , they must cease to be dissenters before they can partake of this sufficient means of instruction . and now for those who do with one accord put themselves under the direction of the ministers of the national , and hearken to these teachers of the true religion . i ask whether one half of those whereof most of the assemblies are made up , do or can ( so ignorant as they are ) understand what they hear from the pulpit ? and then whether if a man did understand , what in many assemblies ordinarily is delivered once a week there for his instruction , he might not yet at threescore years end be ignorant of the grounds and principles of the christian religion ? your having so often in your letter mentioned sufficient provision of instruction , has forced these two short questions from me . but i forbear to tell you what i have heard very sober people , even of the church of england , say upon this occasion : for you have warned me already , that it shall be interpreted to be a quarrel to the clergy in general , if any thing shall be taken notice of in any of them worthy to be mended . i leave it to those whose profession it is to judg , whether divinity be a science wherein men may be instructed by an harangue or two on●…e a week , upon any subject at a venture , which has no coherence with that which preceded , or that which is to follow , and this made to people that are ignorant of the first principles of it , and are not capable of understanding such ways of discourses . i am sure he that should think this a sufficient means of instructing people in any other science , would at the end of seven or twenty years find them very little advanced in it . and bating perhaps some terms and phrases belonging to it , would be as far from all true and useful knowledg of it as when they first began . whether it be so in matter●… of religion , those who have the oportunity to observe must judg . and if it appear that amongst those of the national church there be very many so ignorant , that there is nothing more frequent than for the ministers themselves to complain of it , it is manifest from those of the national church ( whatever may be concluded from dissenters ) that the means of instruction provided by the law , are not sufficient , unless that be sufficient means of instruction , which men of sufficient capacity for other things , may live under many years , and yet know very little by . if you say it is for want of consideration , must not your remedy of force be used to bring them to it ? or how will the magistrate answer for it , if he use force to make dissenters consider , and let those of his own church perish for want of it ? this being all one can well understand by your sufficient means of instruction , as you there explain it , i do not see but men who have no aversion to be instructed , may yet fail of it , notwithstanding such a provision . perhaps by exercising the true religion with one accord under the direction of the ministers of it in publick assemblies , you mean something farther ; but that not being an ordinary phrase , will need your explication to make it understood . chap. ii. of the magistrate's commission to use force in matters of religion . though in the foregoing chapter our examining your doctrine concerning the magistrates who may or may not use force in matters of religion , we have in several places happened to take notice of the commission whereby you authorize magistrates to act ; yet we shall in this chapter more particularly consider that commission . you tell us , to use force in matters of religion , is a duty of the magistrate as old as the law of nature , in which the magistrate's commission lies : for the scripture does not properly give it him , but supposes it . and more at large you give us an account of the magistrate's commission in these words : ●…is true indeed , the author and finisher of our faith has given the magistrate no new power or commission : nor was there any need that he should , ( if himself had any temporal power to give : ) for he found him already , even by the law of nature , the minister of god to the people for good , and bearing the sword not in vain , i. e. invested with coactive power , and obliged to use it for all the good purposes which it might serve , and for which it should be found needful ; even for the restraining of false and corrupt religion : as job long before ( perhaps before any part of the scriptures were written ) acknowledged , when he said , that the worshipping the sun or the moon , was an iniquity to be punished by the judg. but though our saviour has given the magistrates no new power , yet being king of kings , he expects and requires that they should submit themselves to his sc●…pter , and use the power which always belonged to them , for his service , and for the advancing his spiritual kingdom in the world. and even that charity which our great master so earnestly recommends , and so strictly requires of all his disciples , as it obliges all men to seck and promote the good of others , as well as their own , especially their spiritual and eternal good , by such means as their several places and relations enable them to use ; so does it especially oblige the magistrate to do it as a magistrate , i. e. by that power which enables him to do it above the rate of other men. so far therefore is the christian magistrate , when he gives his helping-hand to the furtherance of the gospel , by laying convenient penalties upon such as reject it , or any part of it , from using any other means for the salvation of mens souls , than what the author and finisher of our faith has directed , that he does no more than his duty to god , to his redeemer , and to his subjects , requires of him . christ , you say , has given . no new power or commission to the magistrate : and for this you give several reasons . . there was no need that he should ; yet it seems strange that the christian magistrates alone should have an exercise of coa●…ve power in matters of religion , and yet our saviour should say nothing of it , but leave them to that commission which was common to them with all other magistrates . the christian religion in cases of less moment is not wanting in its rules ; and i know not whether you will not charge the new testament with a great defect , if that law alone which teaches the only true religion , that law which all magistrates who are of the true religion , receive and embrace , should say nothing at all of so necessary and important a duty to those who alone are in a capacity to discharge it , but leave them only to that general law of nature , which others who are not qualified to use this force , have in common with them . this at least seems needful , if a new commission does not , that the christian magistrates should have been instructed what degree of force they should use , and been limited to your moderate penalties ; since for above these years , though they have readily enough found out your commission to use force , they never found out your moderate use of it , which is that alone which you assure us is useful and necessary . . you say , if our saviour had any temporal power to give ; whereby you seem to give this as a reason why he gave not the civil magistrate power to use force in matters of religion , that he had it not to give . you tell us in the same paragraph , that he is king of kings ; and he tells us himself , that all power is given unto him in heaven and in earth : so that he could have given what power , to whom , and to what purpose he had pleased : and concerning this there needs no if . . for he found him already by the law of nature invested with coactive power , and obliged to use it for all the good purposes which it might serve , and for which it should be found needful . he found also fathers , husbands , masters , invested with their distinct powers by the same law , and under the same obligation ; and yet he thought it needsul to prescribe to them in the use of those powers : but there was no need he should do so to the civil magistrates in the use of their power in matters of religion ; because tho fathers , husbands , masters , were liable to excess in the use of theirs , ye●… christian magistrates were not , as appears by their having always kept to those moderate measures , which you assure us to be the only necessary and useful . and what at last is their commission ? even that of charity , which obliges all men to seek and promote the good of others , especially their spiritual and eternal good , by such means as their several places and relations enable them to use , especially magistrates as magistrates . this duty of charity is well discharged by the magistrate as magistrate , is it not ? in bringing men to an outward profession of any , even of the true religion , and leaving them there ? but , sir , i ask you who must be judg , what is for the spiritual and eternal good of his subjects , the magistrate himself or no ? if not he himself , who for him ? or can it be done without any one's judging at all ? if he , the magistrate , must judg every-where himself what is for the spiritual and eternal good of his subjects , as i see no help for it●… if the magistrate be every-where by the law of nature obliged to promote their spiritual and eternal good , is not the true religion like to find great advantage in the world by the use of force in the magistrates hands ? and is not this a plain demonstration that god has by the law of nature given commission to the magistrate to use force for the promoting the true religion , since ( as it is evident ) the execution of such a commission will do so much more harm than good ? to shew that your indirect and at a distance vsefulness , with a general necessity of force , authorizes the civil power in the use of it , you use the following words ; that force does some service towards the making of scholars and artists , i suppose you will easily grant . give me leave therefore to ask , how it does it ? i suppose you will say , not by its direct and proper efficacy , ( for force is no more capable to work learning or arts , than the belief of the true religion in men by its direct and proper efficacy ; ) but by prevailing upon those who are designed for scholars or artists , to receive instruction , and to apply themselves to the use of those means and helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be : that is , it does it indirectly , and at a distance . well then , if all the vsefulness of the force towards the bringing scholars or apprentices to the learning or skill they are designed to attain , be only an indirect and at a distance usefulness ; i pray what is it that warrants and authorizes schoolmasters , tutors or masters , to use force upon their scholars or apprentices , to bring them to learning , or the skill of their arts and trades , if such an indirect and at a distance usefulness of force , together with that necessity of it which experience discovers , will not do it ? i believe you will acknowledg that even such an vsefulness , together with that necessity , will serve the turn in these cases . but then i would fain know , why the same kind of vsefulness , joined with the like necessity , will not as well do it in the case before us ? i confess i see no reason why it should not ; nor do i believe you can assign any . you ask here , what authorizes schoolmasters or masters to use force on their scholars and apprentices , if such an indirect and at a distance usefulness , together with necessity , does not do it ? i answer , neither your indirect and at a distance vsefulness , nor the necessity you suppose of it . for i do not think you will say , that any schoolmaster has a power to teach , much less to use force on any one's child , without the consent and authority of the father : but a father , you will say , has a power to use force to correct his child to bring him to learning or skill in that trade he is designed to ; and to this the father is authorized by the usefulness and necessity of force . this i deny , that the meer-supposed usefulness and necessity of force authorizes the father to use it ; for then whenever he judg'd it useful and necessary for his son , to prevail with him to apply himself to any trade , he might use force upon him to that purpose ; which i think neither you nor any body else will say , a father has a right to do on his idle and perhaps married son at or years old . there is then something else in the case ; and whatever it be that authorizes the father to use force upon his child , to make him a prosicient in it , authorizes him also to chuse that trade , a●…t or science he would have him a proficient in : for the father can no longer use force upon his son , to make him attain any art or trade , than he can pres●…ribe to him the art or trade he is to attain . put your parallel now if you please : the father by the usefulness and n●…sity of force is authorized to use it upon his child , to make him attain any art or science ; therefore the magistrate is authorized to use force to bring men to the true religion , because it is useful and necessary . thus far you have used it , and you think it does well . but let us go on with the parallel : this usefulness and necessity of force authorizes the father to use it , to make his son apply himself to the use of the means and helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be , no longer than it authorizes the father to design what his son shall be , and to chuse for him the art or trade he shall be of : and so the usefulness and necessity you suppose in force to bring men to any church , cannot authorize the magistrate to use force any farther , than he has a right to chuse for any one what church or religion he shall be of . so that if you will stick to this argument , and allow the parallel between a magistrate and a father , and the right they have to use force for the instructing of their subjects in religion , and children in arts , you must either allow the magistrate to have power to chuse what religion his subjects shall be of , which you have denied , or else that he has no power to use force to make them use means to be of it . a father being entrusted with the care and provision for his child , is as well bound in duty , as fitted by natural love and tenderness , to supply the defects of his tender age. when it is born , the child cannot move it self for the ease and help of natural necessities , the parents hands must supply that inability , and feed , cleanse and swaddle it . age having given more strength , and the exercise of the limbs , the parents are discharged from the trouble of putting meat into the mouth of the child , clothing or unclothing , or carrying him in their arms. the same duty and affection which required such kind of helps to the infant , makes them extend their thoughts to other cares for him when he is grown a little bigger ; 't is not only a present support , but a future comfortable subsistence begins to be thought on : to this some art or science is necessary , but the child's ignorance and want of prospect makes him unable to chuse . and hence the father has a power to chuse for him , that the flexible and docile part of life may not be squandred away , and the time of instruction and improvement be lost for want of direction . the trade or art being chosen by the father , 't is the exercise and industry of the child must acquire it to himself : but industry usually wanting in children , the spur which reason and fore●…ght gives to the endeavours of grown men , the father's rod and correction is fain to supply that want , to make him apply himself to the use of those means and helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be . but when the child is once come to the state of manhood , and to be the possessor and free disposer of his goods and estate , he is then discharged from this discipline of his parents , and they have no longer any right to chuse any art , science , or course of life for him , or by force to make him apply himself to the use of those means which are proper to make him be what he designs to be . thus the want of knowledg to chuse a sit calling , and want of knowledg of the necessity of pains and industry to attain skill in it , puts a power into the parents hands to use force where it is necessary to procure the application and diligence of their children in that , which their parents have thought fit to set them to ; but it gives this power to the parents only , and to no other whilst they live ; and if they die whilst their children need it , to their substitutes ; and there it is safely placed : for since their want of knowledg during their non-age , makes them want direction ; and want of reason often makes them need punishment and force to excite their endeavours , and keep them intent to the use of those means that lead to the end they are directed to , the tenderness and love of parents will engage them to use it only for their good , and generally to quit it too , when by the title of manhood they come to be above the direction and discipline of children . but how does this prove that the magistrate has any right to force men to apply themselves to the use of those means and helps which are proper to make them of any religion , more than it proves that the magistrate has a right to chuse for them what religion they shall be of ? to your question therefore , what is it that warrants and authorizes schoolmasters , tutors and masters to use force upon their scholars or apprentices ? i answer , a commission from the father or mother , or those who supply their places ; for without that no indirect or at a distance vsefulness , or supposed necessity , could authorize them . but then you will ask , is it not this vsefulness and necessity that gives this power to the father and mother ? i grant it . i would fain know then , say you , why the same vsefulness joined wit●… the like necessity , will as well do in the case before us ? and i , sir , will as readily tell you : because the understanding of the parents is to supply the want of it in the minority of their children ; and therefore they have a right not only to use force to make their children apply themselves to the means of acquiring any art or trade , but to chuse also the trade or calling they shall be of . but when being come out of the state of minority , they are supposed of years of discretion to chuse what they will design themselves to be , they are also at liberty to judg what application and industry they will use for the attaining of it ; and then how negligent soever they are in the use of the means , how averse soever to instruction or application , they are past the correction of a schoolmaster , and their parents can no longer chuse or design for them what they shall be , nor use force to prevail with them to apply themselves to the use of those means and helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be . he that imagines a father or tutor may send his son to school at thirty or forty years old , and order him to be whipp'd there , or that any indirect and at a distance usefulness will authorize him to be so used , will be thought fitter to be sent thither himself , and there to receive due correction . when you have consider'd 't is otherwise in the case of the magistrate using force your way in matters of religion ; that there his understanding is not to supply the defect of understanding in his subjects , and that only for a time ; that he cannot chuse for any of his subjects what religion he shall be of , as you your self confess ; and that this power of the magistrate , if it be ( as is claimed by you ) over men of all ages , parts and endowments , you will perhaps see some reason why it should not do in the case before us , as well as in that of schoolmasters and tutors , though you believe i cannot assign any . but , sir , will your indirect and at a distance vsefulness , together with your supposed necessity , authorize the master of the shoe-makers company to take any one who comes in his hands , and punish him for not being of the shoe-makers company , and not coming to their guild , when he , who has a right to chuse of what trade and company he will be , thinks it not his interest to be a shoe-maker ? nor can he or any body else imagine that this force , this punishment is used to make him a good shoe-maker , when it is seen and avowed that the punishments cease , and they are free from it who enter themselves of the company , whether they are really shoe-makers , or in earnest apply themselves to be so or no. how much it differs from this , that the magistrate should punish men for not being of his church , who chuse not to be of it , and when they are once entred into the communion of it , are punished no more , though they are as ignorant , unskilful , and unpractised in the religion of it as before : how much , i say , this differs from the case i proposed , i leave you to consider . for after all your pretences of using force for the salvation of souls , and consequently to make men really christians , you are fain to allow , and you give reasons for it , that force is used only to those who are out of your church : but whoever are once in it , are free from force , whether they be really christians , and apply themselves to those things which are for the salvation of their souls , or no. as to what you say , that whether they chuse it or no , they ought to chuse it ; for your magistrate's religion is the true religion , that is the question between you and them : but be that as it will , if force be to be used in the case , i have proved that be the magistrate's religion true or false , he , whilst he believes it to be true , is under an obligation to use force , as if it were true . but since you think your instance of children so weighty and pressing , give me leave to return you your question : i ask you then , are not parents as much authorized to teach their children their religion , as they are to teach them their trade , when they have designed them to it ? may they not as lawfully correct them to make them learn their catechise , or the principles of their religion , as they may to make them learn clenard's grammar ? or may they not use force to make them go to mass , or whatever they believe to be the worship of the true religion , as to go to school , or to learn any art or trade ? if they may , as i think you will not deny , unless you will say , that none but orthodox parents may teach their children any religion : if they may , i say then , pray tell me a reason ( if your argumen●… from the discipline of children be good ) why the magistrate may not use force to bring men to his religion , as well as parents may use force to instruct children , and bring them up in theirs ? when you have considered this , you will perhaps find some difference between the state of children and grown men , betwixt those under tutelage , and those who are free and at their own disposal ; and be inclined to think that those reasons which subject children in their non-age to the use of force , may not , nor do concern men at years of discretion . you tell us farther , that commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the benefits which political government can yield : and therefore if the spiritual and eternal interests of men may any way be procured or advanced by political government , the procuring and advancing those interests must in all reason be received amongst the ends of civil society , and so consequently fall within the compass of the magistrate's jurisdiction . concerning the extent of the magistrate's jurisdiction , and the ends of civil society , whether the author or you have begg'd the question , which is the chief business of your th , and two or three following pages , i shall leave it to the readers to judg , and bring the matter , if you please , to a shorter i●…ue . the question is , whether the magistrate has any power to interpose force in matters of religion , or for the salvation of souls ? the argument against it is , that civil societies are not constituted for that end , and the magistrate cannot use force for ends for which the common-wealth was not constituted . the end of a commonwealth constituted can be supposed no other , than what men in the constitution of , and entring into it propos'd ; and that could be nothing but protection from such injuries from other men , which they desiring to avoid , nothing but force could prevent or remedy : all things but this being as well attainable by men living in neighbourhood without the bonds of a commonwealth , they could propose to themselves no other thing but this in quitting their natural liberty , and putting themselves under the umpirage of a civil soveraign , who therefore had the force of all the members of the commonwealth put into his hands , to make his decrees to this end be obeyed . now since no man , or society of men can by their opinions in religion , or ways of worship , do any man who differed from them any injury , which he could not avoid or redress , if he desired it , without the help of force ; the punishing any opinion in religion , or ways of worship by the force given the magistrate , could not be intended by those who constituted , or entred into the commonwealth , and so could be no end of it , but quite the contrary . for force from a stronger hand to bring a man to a religion , which another thinks the true , being an injury which in the state of nature every one would avoid , protection from such injury is one of the ends of a commonwealth , and so every man has a right to toleration . if you will say , that commonwealths are not voluntary societies constituted by men , and by men freely entred into , i shall desire you to prove it . in the mean time allowing it you for good , that common-wealths are constituted by god for ends which he has appointed , without the consent and contrivance of men. if you say , that one of those ends is the propagation of the true religion , and the salvation of mens souls ; i shall desire you to shew me any such end expresly appointed by god in revelation ; which since , as you confess , you cannot do , you have recourse to the general law of nature , and what is that ? the law of reason , whereby every one is commissioned to do good. and the propagating the true religion for the salvation of mens souls , being doing good , you say , the civil soveraigns are commissioned and required by that law to use their force for those ends. but since by this law all civil soveraigns are commissioned and obliged alike to use their co●…ive power for the propagating the true religion , and the salvation of souls ; and it is not possible for them to execute such a commission , or obey that law , but by using force to bring men to that religion which they judg the true ; by which use of force much more harm than good would be done towards the propagating the true religion in the world , as i have shewed elsewhere : therefore no such commission , whose execution would do more harm than good , more hinder than promote the end for which it is supposed given , can be a commission from god by the law of nature . and this i suppose may satisfy you about the end of civil societies or commonwealths , and answer what you say concerning the ends attainable by them . but that you may not think the great position of yours , which is so often usher'd in with doubtless , ( for which you imagine you have sufficient warrant in a misapplied school-maxim ) is past over too slightly , and is not sufficiently answered ; i shall give you that farther satisfaction . you say , civil societies are instituted for the attaining all the benefits which civil society or political government can yield ; and the reason you give for it , because it has hitherto been universally acknowledged that no power is given in vain : and therefore if i except any of those benefits , i shall be obliged to admit that the power of attaining them was given in vain . and if i do admit it , no harm will follow in humane affairs : or if i may borrow an elegant expression of yours out of the foregoing leaf , the fortune of europe does not turn upon it . in the voluntary institution and bestowing of power , there is no absurdity or inconvenience at all , that power , sufficient for several ends , should be limited by those that give the power only to one or some part of them . the power which a general , commanding a potent army , has , may be enough to take more towns than one from the enemy ; or to suppress a domestick sedition , and yet the power of attaining those benefits , which is in his hand , will not authorize him to imploy the force of the army therein , if he be commission'd only to besiege and take one certain place . so it is in a commonwealth . the power that is in the civil soveraign is the force of all the subjects of the commonwealth , which supposing it sufficient for other ends , then the preserving the members of the commonwealth in peace from injury and violence : yet if those who gave him that power , limited the application of it to that sole end , no opinion of any other benefits attainable by it can authorize him to use it otherwise . our saviour tells us expresly , that all power was given him in heaven and earth . by which power i imagine you will not say , that the spiritual and eternal interest of those men whom you think need the help of political force , and of all other men too , could not any way be procured or advanced ; and yet if you will hear him in another place , you will find this power ( which being all power , could certainly have wrought on all men ) limited to a certain number : he says , thou hast given him [ i. e. thy son ] power over all flesh , that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him . whether your universally acknowledged maxim of logick be true enough to authorize you to say , that any part of this power was given him in vain , and to inable you to draw consequences from it , you were best see . but were your maxim so true that it proved , that si●…ce it might indirectly and at a distance do some service towards the procuring or advancing the spiritual interest of some few subjects of a commonwealth , therefore force was to be imployed to that end ; yet that will searce make good this doctrine of yours ; doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all those benefits which political government can yield ; therefore if the spiritual and eternal interests of men may any way be procured or advanced by political government , the procuring and advancing those interests must in all reason be reckoned among the ends of civil societies , and so consequently fall within the compass of the magistrate's jurisdiction . for granting it true that commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all those benefits which political government can yield , it does not follow that the procuring and advancing the spiritual and eternal interest of some few members of the commonwealth by an application of power , which indirectly and at a distance , or by accident may do some service that way , whilst at the same time it prejudices a far greater number in their civil interests , can with reason be reckon'd amongst the ends of civil society . that commonwealths are instituted for these ends , viz. for the procuring , preserving and advancing mens civil interests , you say , no man will deny . to sacrifice therefore these civil interests of a great number of people , which are the allowed ends of the commonwealths , to the uncertain expectation of some service to be done indirectly and at distance to a far less number , as experience has always shewed those really converted to the true religion by force to be , if any at all cannot be one of the ends of the commonwealth . though the advancing of the spiritual and eternal interest be of insinite advantage to the persons who receive that benefit , yet if it can be thought a benefit to the commonwealth when it is procured them with the diminishing or destroying the civil interests of great numbers of their fellow-citizens , then the ravaging of an enemy , the plague , or a famine may be said to bring a benefit to the common-wealth : for either of these may indirectly and at a distance do some service towards the advancing or procuring the spiritual and eternal interest of some of those who suffer in it . in the two latter paragraphs , you except against my want of exactness in setting down your opinion i am arguing against . had it been any way to take off the force of what you say , or that the reader could have been misled by my words in any part of the question i was arguing against , you had h●…d reason to complain : if not , you had done better to ha●…e entertained the reader with a clearer answer to my argument , than spent your ink and his time needlesly , to shew such niceness . my argument is as good against your tenet in your own words , as in mine , which you except against : your words are , doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the benefits which political government can yield ; and therefore if the spiritual and eternal interest of men may any way be procured 〈◊〉 advanced by political government , the procuring and advancing those interests , must in all reason be reckon'd amongst the ends of civil societies . to which i answer'd , that if this be so , then this position must be true , viz. that all societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the benefits that they may any way yield ; there being nothing peculiar to civil society in the case , why that society should be instituted for the attaining all the benefits it can any way yield , and other societies not . by which argument it will follow , that all societies are instituted for one and the same end , i. e. for the attaining all the benefits that they can any way yield . by which account there will be no difference between church and state , a commonwealth and an army , or between a ●…amily and the east-india company ; all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of societies , instituted ●…or different ends. if your hypothesis hold good , o●…e of the ends of the family must be to preach the gospel , and administer the sacraments ; and one business of an army to teach languages , and propagate religion ; because these are benefits some way or other attainable by those societies ; unless you take want of commission and authority to be a sufficient imp●…diment : and that will be so in other cases . to which you reply , nor will it follow from hence that all societies are instituted for one and the same end , ( as you imagine it will ) unless you suppose all soci●…s inab●…d by the power they are indued with to attain the same ●…nd , which i believe no man hitherto did ever affirm . and therefore notwithstanding this position , the●…e may be still as great a difference as you please between church an●… state , a commonwealth and an army , or between a family and the east-india-company . which ●…veral societies , as they are instituted for different ends , so are th●…y likewise furnished with d●…fferent powers proportionate to their respective ends. in which the r●…ason you give to destroy my inference , i am to thank you for , if you understood the force of it , it being the very same i bring to shew that my inference from your way of arguing is good . i say , that from your way of reasonings about the ends of government , ` it would follow that all societies were instituted for one and the same end ; unless you take want of commission ` and authority to be a sufficient imp●…diment . and you tell me here it will not follow , unless i suppose all societies enabled by the powers they are indued with , to attain the same end ; which in other words is , unless i suppose all who have in their hands the force of any society , to have all of them the same commission . the natural force of all the members of any society , or of those who by the society can be procured to assist it , is in one sense called the power of that society . this power or force is generally put into some one or few persons hands with direction and authority how to use it , and this in another sense is called also the power of the society : and this is the power you here speak of , and in these following words , viz. several societies as they are instituted for different ends ; so likewise are they furnished with different powers proportionate to their respective ends. the power therefore of any society in this sense , is nothing but the authority and direction given to those that have the management of the force or natural power of the society , how and to what ends to use it , by which commission the ends of societies are known and distinguished : so that all societies wherein those who are intrusted with the management of the force or natural power of the society , have commission and authority to use the force or natural power of the society to attain the same benefits , are instituted for the same end. and therefore if in all societies those who have the management of the force or natural power of the society , are commission'd or authorized to use that force to attain all the benefits attainable by it , all societies are instituted to the same end : and so what i said will still be true , viz. ` that a family and an army , a commonwealth and a church , have all the same end. and if your hypothesis hold good , one of the ends of a family must be to preach the gospel , and administer the sacraments ; and one business of an army to teach languages , and propagate religion because these are benefits some way or other attainable by those societies ; unless you take want of commission and authority to be a sufficient impediment : and ` that will be so too in other cases . to which you have said nothing but what does confirm it , which you will a little better see , when you have considered that any benefit attainable by force or natural power of a society , does not pro●…e the society to be instituted for that end , till you also shew , that those to whom the management of the force of the society is intrusted , are comm●…ion to use it to that end. and therefore to your next paragraph , i shall think it answer enough to print here side by side with it , that paragraph of mine to which you intended it as an answer . l. . p. . t is a benefit to have true knowledg and philosophy imbraced and assented to , in any ci●…il society or government . but will you say therefore , that it is a benefit to the society , or one of the ends of government , that all who are not 〈◊〉 should be punished , to make men find out the truth , and pro●…s it ? this indeed might be thought a sit way to make some men imbrace the peripatetick philosophy , but not a proper way to find the truth . for , perhaps the peripatetick philosophy may not be true ; perh●…ps a great many have not time , nor parts to study it ; perhaps a great many who have studied it , cannot be con●…inced of the truth of it : and therefore it cannot be a benefit to the commonwealth , nor one of the ends of it , that these members of the society should be disturb'd , and diseas'd to no purpose , when they are guilty of no fault . for just the same reason , it cannot be a benefit to civil society , that men should be punished in denmark for not being lutherans ; in geneva for not being calvinists ; and in vienna for not being papists ; as a means to make them find out the true religion . for so , upon your grounds , men must be treated in those places , as well as in england for not being of the church of england . and then , i beseech you , consider the great benefit will accrue to men in society by this method ; and i suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove , that ever civil governments were instituted to punish men for not being of this or that sect in religion ; however by accident , indirectly , and at a distance , it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand , or an hundred , to ●…udy that controversy , which is all you expect from it . if it be a 〈◊〉 , pray tell me what benefit it is . a civil benefit it cannot be . for mens civil interests are disturb'd , injur'd , and impair'd by it . and what spiritual benefit that can be to any multitude of men , to be punished for dissenting from a false or erroneous profession , i would have you find out : unless it be a spiritual benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way . for if in all differing sects , one is in the wrong , 't is a hundred to one but that from which any one dissents , and is punished for dissenting from , is the wrong . l. . p. . to your next paragraph , after what has already been said , i think it may ●…ffice to say as follows . though perhaps the perip●…tetick ●…hilosophy may not be true , ( and perhaps it is no great matter , if it be not ) yet the true religion is undoub●…dly true . and though perhaps a great many have not time , nor parts to study that philosophy , ( and perhaps it may be no great matter neither , if they have not ) yet all that have the true religion duly tender'd them , have time , and all , but idiots and mad-men , have parts likewise to study it , as much as it is necessary for them to study it . and though perhaps a great many who have studied that philosophy , cannot be convinced of the truth of it , ( which perhaps is no great wonder ) yet no man ●…ver studied the true religion with such care and diligence as he might and ought to use , and with an honest mind , but he was convinced of the truth of it . and that those who cannot otherwise be brought to do this , should be a little disturb'd and diseas'd to bring them to it , i take to be the interest , not only of those particular persons who by this means may be brought into the way of salvation , but of the commonwealth likewise , upon these two accounts . . because the true religion , which this method propagates , makes good men ; and good men are always the best subjects , or members of a common-wealth ; not only as they do more sincerely and zealously promote the publick good , than other men ; but likewise in regard of the favour of god , which they often procure to the societies of which they are members . and , . because this care in any comm●…ealth , of god's honour and mens salvation , entitles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his special protection and blessing . so that where this method is used , it proves both a spiritual and a civil benefit to the commonwealth . you tell us , the true religion is undoubtedly true . if you had told us too , who is undoubtedly judg of it , you had put all past doubt : but till you will be pleased to determine that , it will be undoubtedly true , that the king of denmark is as undoubtedly judg of it at copenhagen , and the emperor at vienna , as the king of england in this island : i do not say they judg as right , but they are by as much right judges , and therefore have as much right to punish those who dissent from lutheranism and popery in those countries , as any other civil magistrate has to punish any dissenters from the national religion any where else . and who can deny but these briars and thorns laid in their way by the penal laws of those countries , may do some service indirectly and at a distance , to bring men there severely and impartially to examine matters of religion , and so to imbrace the truth that must save them , which the bare outward profession of any religion in the world will not do ? this true religion which is undoubtedly true , you tell us too , never any body studied with such care and diligence as he might and ought to use , and with an honest mind , but he was convinced of the truth of it . if you will resolve it in your short circular way , and tell me such diligence as one ought to use , is such diligence as brings one to be convinced , it is a question too easy to be asked . if i should desire to know plainly what is to be understood by it , it would be a question too hard for you to answer , and therefore i shall not trouble you with demanding what this diligence which a man may and ought to use , is ; nor what you mean by an honest mind . i only ask you , whether force , your way applied , be able to produce them ? that so the commonwealth may have the benefits you propose from mens being convinced of , and consequently imbracing the true religion , which you say no body can miss , who is brought to that diligence , and that honest mind . the benefits to the commonwealth are , . that the true religion that this method propagates , makes good men , and good men are always the best subjects , and often procure the favour of god to the society they are members of . being forward enough to grant that nothing contributes so much to the benefit of a society , as that it be made up of good men , i began presently to give into your method , which promises so sure a way to make men so study the true religion , that they cannot miss the being convinced of the truth of it , and so hardly avoid being really of the true religion , and consequently good men. but that i might not mistake in a thing of that consequence , i began to look about in those countries where force had been made use of to propagate what you allowed to be the true religion , and found complaints of as great a scarcity of good men there , as in other places . a friend whom i discoursed on this point , said , it might possibly be that the world had not yet had the benefit of your method : because law-makers had not yet been able to find that just temper of penalties on which your propagation of the true religion was built ; and that therefore it was great pity you had not yet discovered this great secret , but 't was to be hoped you would . another , who stood by , said , he did not see how your method could make men it wrought on , and brought to conformity , better than others , unless corrupt nature with impunity were like to produce better men in one outward profession than in another . to which i replied , that we did not look on conformists through a due medium ; for if we did with you allow it presumable that all who consormed did it upon conviction , there could be no just complaint of the scarcity of good men : and so we got over that difficulty . the second benefit you say your use of force brings to the commonwealth , is , that this care in any commonwealth of god's honour and mens salvation , entitles it to his special protection and blessing . then certainly all commonwealths that have any regard to the protection and blessing of god , will not neglect to intitle themselves to it , by using of force to promote that religion they believe to be true . but i beseech you what care is this of the honour of god , and mens salvation , you speak of ? is it , as you have owned it , a care by penalties to make men outwardly conform , and without any farther care or inquiry to presume that they do it upon conviction , and with a sincere imbracing of , and obedience to the truth ? but if the honour of god and mens salvation , consists not in an outward conformity to any religion , but in something farther , what blessing they may expect whose care goes so far , and then presume the rest , which is the hardest part , and the●…efore least to be presumed , the prophe●… jeremy will tell you , who says , cursed be he that does the work of the lord negligently : which those who think it is the magistrate's business to use force to bring men heartily to imbrace the truth that must save them , were best seriously to consider . your next paragraph containing nothing but positions of yours , which you suppose elsewhere proved , and i elsewhere examined , 't is not fit the reader should be troubled any farther about them . i once knew a gentleman , who having crak'd himself with an ungovernable ambition , could never afterwards hear the place he aimed at mentioned , without shewing marks of his distemper . i know not what the matter is , that when there comes in your way but the mention of secular power in your or ecclesiasticks hands , you cannot contain your self : we have instances of it in other parts of your letter ; and here again you fall into a fit , which since it produces rather marks of your breeding , than arguments for your canse , i shall leave them as they are to the reader , if you can make them go down with him for reasons from a grave man , or for a sober answer to what i say in that and the following paragraph . much-what of the same size is your ingenious reply to what i say in the next paragraph , viz. that commonwealths , or civil societies and governments , if you will believe the judiciou●… mr. hooker , are , as st. peter calls them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the contrivance and institution of man. to which you smartly reply , for your choler was up , `●…is well for st. peter that he had the judicious mr. hooker on his side . and it would have been well for you too to have seen that mr. hooker's authority was made use of not to confirm the authority of st. peter , but to confirm that sense i gave of st. peter's words , which is not so clear in our translation , but that there are those who , as i doubt not but you know , do not allow of it . but this being said when passion it seems rather imployed your ●…it than your judgment , though nothing to the purpose , may yet perhaps indirectly and at a distance do some service . and now , sir , if you can but imagine that men in the corrupt state of nature might be authorized and required by reason , the law of nature , to avoid the inconveniences of that state , and to that purpose to put the power of governing them into some one or more mens hands , in such forms , and under such agreements as they should think sit : which governours so set over them for a good end by their own choice , though they received all their power from those , who by the law of nature had a power to confer it on them , may very ●…tly be called powers ordained of god , being chosen and 〈◊〉 by those who had authority from god so to do . for he that recei●…es commission ( limited according to the 〈◊〉 of him that gives it ) from another who had authority from his prince so to do , may truly be said , so far as his commission reaches , to be appointed or ordained by the prince himself . which may serve as an answer to your two next paragrap●… , ●…nd to shew that there is no opposition or difficulty in all 〈◊〉 st. peter , st. paul , or the judicious mr. hooker says ; nor any thing , in what either of them says , to your purpose . and tho it be true , those powers that are , are ordained of god ; yet it may nevertheless be true , that the power any one has , and the ends for which he has it , may be by the contrivance and appointment of men. to my saying , the ends of commonwealths appointed by the institutors of them , could not be their spiritual and eternal interest , because they could not stipulate about those one with another , nor submit this interest to the power of the society , or any soveraign they should set over them . you reply , very true , sir ; but they can submit to be punished in their temporal interest , if they de●…ise or neglect those greater interests . how they can submit to be punished by any men in their temporal interest , for that which they cannot submit to be judg'd by any man , when you can shew , i shall admire your politicks . besides , if the compact about matters of religion be , that those should be punished in their temporal , who neglect or despise their eternal interest , who i beseech you is by this agreement rather to be punished , a sober dissenter , who appears concerned for religion and his salvation , or an irreligious prophane or debauched conformist ? by such as despise or neglect those gr●…ate interests , you here mean only dissenters from the national religion : for those only you punish , though you represent them under such a description as belongs not peculiarly to them ; but that matter●… not , so long as it best sutes your occasion . in your next paragraph you wonder at my news from the west-indies , i suppose because you sound it not in your books of europe or asia . but whatever you may think , i assure you all the world is not ●…ile end. but that you may be no more surprized with news , let me ask you , whether it be not possible that men , to whom the rivers and woods a●…orded the spontaneous provisions of life , and so with no private possessions of land , had no inlarged desires after r●…hes or power , should live together in society , make on●… peo●…e of one language under one chieftain , who shall have no oth●… power but to command them in time of war agai●…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enemies , without any municipal laws , judges , 〈◊〉 ●…ny ●…rson with superiority establish●…d amongst them , but 〈◊〉 all their private differences , if any a●…ose , by the extempory determination of their neighbours , or of arbitrators 〈◊〉 by the partie●… . i ask you whether in such a commonwealth , the chiestain who was the only man of authority amongst them , had any power to use the force of the commonwealth to any other end but the defence of it against an enemy , though other benefits were attainable by it ? the paragraph of mine to which you mean your next for an answer , shall answer for it self . l. . p. . you quote the author's argument , which he brings to prove that the care of souls is not committed to the magistrate , in these words : it is not committed to him by god because it appears not god has ever given any such authority to one man over another , as to compel any one to his religion . this , when first i read it , i confess i thought a good argument . but you say , this is quite besides the business ; and the reason you give , is ; for the authority of the magistrate is not an authority to compel any one to his religion , but only an authority to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation , and to pr●…cure withal , as much as in him lies , that 〈◊〉 ●…emain ignorant of it , &c. i f●…r , sir , you forget your self . the author was not writing against your new hypothesis , before it was known in the world. he may be excused , if he had not the gift of prophecy , to argue against a notion which was not yet started . he had in view only the laws hitherto made , and the punishments ( in matters of religion ) in use in the world. the penalties , as i take it , are laid on men for being of different ways of religion : which , what is it other but to compel them to relinquish their own , and to conform themselves to that from which they differ ? if this be not to compel them to the magistrate's religion , pray tell us what is ? this must be necessarily so understood ; unless it can be supposed that the law intends not to have that done , which with penalties it commands to be done ; or that punishments are not compulsion , not that compulsion the author complains of . the law says , do this , and live ; embrace this doctrine , conform to this way of worship , and be at ease , and free ; or else be fined , imprisoned , banished , burnt . if you can shew among the laws that have been made in england concerning religion , ( and i think i may say any where else ) any one that punishes men for not having impartially examined the religion they have embraced or refused , i think i may yield you the cause . law-makers have been generally wiser than to make laws that could not be executed : and therefore their laws were against nonconformists , which could be known ; and not for impartial examination , which could not . 't was not then besides the author's business , to bring an argument against the persecutions here in fashion . he did not know that any one , who was so free as to acknowledg that the magistrate has not an authority to compel any one to his religion , and thereby at once ( as you have done ) give up all the laws now in force against dissenters , had yet rods in store for them , and by a new trick would bring them under the lash of the law , when the old pretences were too much exploded to serve any longer . have you never heard of such a thing as the religion establish'd by law ? which is it seems the lawful religion of a country , and to be complied with as such . there being such things , such notions yet in the world , it was not quite besides the author's business to alledg , that god never gave such authority to one man over another , as to compel any one to his religion . i will grant , if you please , religion establish'd by law is a pretty odd way of speaking in the mouth of a christian , ( and yet it is much in fashion ) as if the magistrate's authority could add any force or sanction to any religion , whether true or false . i am glad to find you have so far considered the magistrate's authority , that you agree with the author , that he hath none to compel men to his religion : much less can he , by any establishment of law , add any thing to the truth or validity of his own , or any religion whatsoever . that above-annexed is all the answer you think this paragraph of mine deserves . but yet in that little you say , you must give me leave to take notice , that if , as you say , the magistrate's authority may do much towards the upholding and preserving the true religion within his jurisdiction ; so also may it do much towards the upholding and preserving of a false religion , and in that respect , if you say true , may be said to establish it . for i think i need not mind you here again , that it must unavoidably depend upon his opinion , what shall be established for true , or rejected as false . and thus you have my thoughts concerning the most material of what you say touching the magistrate's commission to use force in matters of religion , together with some incident places in your answer , which i have taken notice of as they have come in my way . chap. iii. who are to be punished by your scheme . to justify the largeness of the author's toleration , who would not have jews , mahometans and pagans excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth , because of their religion ; i said , i feared it will hardly be believed , that we pray in earnest for their conversion , if we exclude them from the ordinary and probable means of it , either by driving them from us , or persecuting them when they are among us . you reply ; now i confess i thought men might live quietly enough among us , and enjoy the protection of the government against all violence and injuries , without being endenizon'd , or made members of the commonwealth ; which alone can entitle them to the civil rights and privileges of it . but as to jews , mahometans and pagans , if any of them do not care to live among us , unless they may be admitted to the rights and privileges of the common-wealth ; the refusing them that favour is not , i suppose , to be looked upon as driving them from us , or excluding them from the ordinary and probable means of conversion ; but as a just and necessary caution in a christian commonwealth , in respect to the members of it : who , if such as profess judaism , or mahometanism , or paganism , were permitted to enjoy the same rights with them , would be much the more in danger to be seduced by them ; seeing they would lose no worldly advantage by such a change of their religion : whereas if they could not turn to any of those religions , without forfeiting the civil rights of the commonwealth by doing it , 't is likely they would consider well before they did it , what ground there was to expect that they should get any thing by the exchange , which would countervail the loss they should sustain by it . i thought protection and impunity of men , not offending in civil things , might have been accounted the civil rights of the commonwealth , which the author meant : but you , to make it seem more , add the word privileges . let it be so . live amongst you then jews , mahometans , and pagans may ; but endenizon'd they must not be . but why ? are there not those who are members of your commonwealth , who do not imbrace the truth that must save them , any more than they ? what think you of so●…inians , papists , anabaptists , quakers , presbyterians ? if they do not reject the truth necessary to salvation , why do you punish them ? or if some that are in the way to perdition , may be members of the commonwealth , why must these be excluded upon the account of religion ? for i think there is no great odds , as to saving of souls ( which is the only end for which they are punished ) amongst those religions , each whereof will make those who are of it miss salvation . only if there be any fear of seducing those who are of the national church , the danger is most from that religion which comes nearest to it , and most resembles it . however , this you think but a just and necessary caution in a christian commonwealth in respect of the members of it . i suppose ( for you love to speak doubtfully ) these members of a christian common-wealth you take such care of , are members also of the national church , whose religion is the true ; and therefore you call them in the next paragraph , subjects of christ's kingdom , to whom he has a special regard . for dissenters , who are punished to be made good christians , to whom force is used to bring them to the true religion , and to the communion of the church of god , 't is plain are not in your opinion good christians , or of the true religion ; unles , you punish them to make them what they are already . the dissenters therefore who are already perverted , and reject the truth that must save them , you are not , i suppose , so careful of , lest they should be seduced . those who have already the plague , need not be guarded from infection : nor can you fear that men so desperately perverse , that penalties and punishments , joined to the light and strength of the truth , have not been able to bring from the opinions they have espoused , into the communion of the church , should be seduced to judaism , 〈◊〉 , or paganism , neither of which has the advantage of truth ●…r interest to prevail by . 't is therefore those of the national church , as i conclude also from the close of this paragraph , ( where you speak of god's own peculiar people ) wh●…re you think would be much the more in danger to be seduced by them , if they were 〈◊〉 , since they would lose no worldly advantage by such a change of their religion , i. e. by quitting the national church , to turn jews , mahometans or pagans . this shews , whatever you say of the sufficient means of instruction provided by the law , how well you think the members of the national church are instructed in the true religion . it shews also , whatever you say of its being presumable that they imbrace it upon conviction , how much you are satisfied that the members of the national church are convinc'd of the truth of the religion they profess , or rather herd with , since you think them in great danger to change it for judaism , mahometism , or paganism it self upon equal terms , and because they shall lose no worldly advantage by such a change. but if the forseiting the civil rights of the commonwealth , be the proper remedy to keep men in the communion of the church , why is it used to keep men from judaism or paganism , and not from phanaticism ? upon this account why might not jews , pagans and mahometans be admitted to the rights of the commonwealth , as far as papists , independents , and quakers ? but you distribute to every one according to your good pleasure ; and doubtless are fully justified by these following words : and whether this be not a reasonable and necessary caution , any man may judg , who does but consider within how few ages after the flood superstition and idolatry prevailed over the world , and how apt even god's own peculiar people were to receive that mortal infection notwithstanding all that he did to keep them from it . what the state of religion was in the first ages after the flood , is so imperfectly known now , that as i have shewed you in another place , you can make little advantage to your cause from thence . and since it was the same corruption then , which as you own , withdraws men now from the true religion , and hinders it from prevailing by its own ●…ight , without the assistance of force ; and it is the same corruption that keeps dissenters , as well as jews , mahometuns and pagans , from imbracing of the truth : why differ●…nt degrees of punishments should be used to them , till there be sound in them disserent degrees of 〈◊〉 , would need some better reason . why this common pravity of 〈◊〉 nature should make 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 or paganism more catching than any sort of nonconformity , which ●…inders 〈◊〉 from imbracing the true religion ; ●…o that jews , 〈◊〉 and pagans must , for ●…ear of infe●…ting others , be shut out from ●…he commonwealth , when others are not , i would 〈◊〉 know 〈◊〉 whatever it was that so disposed the jews to idolatry before the captivity , sure it is , they firmly resisted it , and refused to change , not only where they might have done it on equal terms , but have had great advantage to boot ; and therefore 't is possible that there is something in this matter , which neither you nor i do fully comprehend , and may with a becoming humility sit down and confess , that in this , as well as other parts of his providence , god's ways are past finding out . but this we may be certain from this instance of the jews , that it is not reasonable to conclude , that because they were once inclin'd to idolatry , that therefore they , or any other people are in danger to turn pagans , whenever they shall lose no worldly advantage by such a change. but if we may oppose nearer and known instances to more remote and uncertain , look into the world , and tell me , since jesus christ brought life and immortality to light through the gospel , where the christian religion meeting judaism , mahometism or paganism upon equal terms , lost so plainly by it , that you have reason to suspect the members of a christian commonwealth would be in danger to be seduced to either of them , if they should lose no worldly advantage by such a change of their religion , rather than likely to increase among them ? till you can find then some better reason for excluding jews , &c. from the rights of the commonwealth , you must give us leave to look on this as a bare pretence . besides , i think you are under a mistake , which shews your pretence against admitting jews , mahometans and pagans , to the civil rights of the commonwealth , is ill grounded ; for what law i pray is there in england , that they who turn to any of those religions , forfeit the civil rights of the commonwealth by doing it ? such a law i desire you to shew me ; and if you cannot , all this pretence is out of doors , and men of your church , since on that account they would lose no worldly advantage by the change , are in as much danger to be seduced , whether jews , mahometans and pagans , are indenizon'd or no. but that you may not be thought too gracious , you tell us , that as to pagans particularly you are so far from thinking that they ought not to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth , because of their religion , that you cannot see how their religion can be suffered by any commonwealth that knows and worships the only true god , if they would be thought to retain any jealousy for his honour , or even for that of humane nature . thus then you order the matter ; jews and mahometans may be permitted to live in a christian commonwealth with the exercise of their religion , but not be endenizon'd : pagans may also be permitted to live there , but not to have the exercise of their religion , nor be endenizon'd . this according to the best of my apprehension is the sense of your words ; for the clearness of your thoughts , or your cause does not always suffer you to speak plainly and directly ; as here , having been speaking a whole page before what usage the persons of jews , mahometans and pagans were to have , you on a sudden tell us their religion is not to be suffered , but say not what must be done with their persons . for do you think it reasonable that men who have any religion , should live amongst you without the exercise of that religion , in order to their conversion ? which is no other but to make them down-right irreligious , and render the very notion of a deity insignificant , and of no influence to them in order to their conversion : it being less dangerous to religion in general , to have men ignorant of a deity , and so without any religion ; than to have them acknowledg a superiour being , but yet to teach or allow them to neglect or refuse worshipping him in that way , that they believe he requires , to render them acceptable to him : it being a great deal less fault ( and that which we were every one of us once guilty of ) to be ignorant of him , than acknowledging a god , and not to pay him the honour which we think due to him . i do not see therefore how those who retain any jealousy for the honour of god , can permit men to live amongst them in order to their conversion , and require of them not to honour god according to the best of their knowledg : unless you think it a preparation to your true religion , to require men sensibly and knowingly to affront the deity ; and to perswade them that the religion you would bring them to , can allow men to make bold with the sense they have of him , and to refuse him the honour which in their consciences they are perswaded is due to him , which must to them and every body else appear inconsistent with all religion . since therefore to admit their persons without the exercise of their religion , cannot be reasonable , nor conducing to their conversion ; if the exercise of their religion , as you say , be not to be suffered among us till they are converted , i do not see how their persons can be suffered among us , if that exception must be added , till they are converted ; and whether then they are not excluded from the ordinary means of conversion , i leave you to consider . i wonder this necessity had not made you think on another way of their having the ordinary means of conversion , without their living amongst us , that way by which in the beginning of christianity it was brought to the heathen world by the travels and preaching of the apostles . but the successors of the apostles are not , it seems , successors to this part of the commission , go and teach all nations . and indeed it is one thing to be an ambassador from god to people that are already converted , and have provided good benefices , another to be an ambassador from heaven in a country where you have neither the countenance of the magistrate , nor the devout obedience of the people . and who sees not how one is bound to be zealous for the propagating of the true religion , and the convincing , converting and saving of souls , in a country where it is establish'd by law ? who can doubt but that there those who talk so much of it , are in earnest ? though yet some men will hardly forbear doubting , that those men , however they pray for it , are not much concerned for the conversion of pagans , who will neither go to them to instruct them , nor suffer them to come to us for the means of conversion . 't is true what you say , what pagans call religion is abomination to the almighty . but if that requires any thing from those who retain any jealousy for the honour of god , it is something more than barely about the place where those abominations shall be committed . the true concern for the honour of god is not , that idolatry should be shut out of england , but that it should be lessen'd every where , and by the light and preaching of the gospel be banished out of the world. if pagans and idolaters are , as you say , the greatest dishonour conceivable to god almighty , they are as much so on t'other side of tweed , or the sea , as on this ; for he from his throne equally beholds all the dwellers ●…on earth . those therefore who are truly jealous for the honour of god will not , upon the account of his honour , be concerned for their being in this or in that place , while there are idolaters in the world ; but that the number of those who are such a dishonour to him , should every day be as much as possible diminished , and they be brought to give him his due tribute of honour and praise in a right way of worship . 't is in this that a jealousy , which is in earnest for god's honour , truly shews it self , in wishing and indeavouring to abate the abomination , and drive idolatry out of the world , not in driving idolaters out of any one country , or sending them away to places and company , where they shall find more incouragement to it . 't is a strange jealousy for the honour of god , that looks not beyond such a mountain or river as divides a christian and pagan country . where-ever idolatry is committed , there god's honour is concerned ; and thither mens jealousy for his honour , if it be sincere indeed , will extend , and be in pain to lessen and take away the provocation . but the place god is provoked and dishonoured in , which is a narrow consideration in respect of the lord of all the earth , will no otherwise imploy their zeal , who are in earnest , than as it may more or less conduce to the conversion of the offenders . but if your jealousy for the honour of god , ingages you so far against mens committing idolatry in certain places , that you think those ought to be excluded from the rights of the commonwealth , and not to be suffered to be denizons , who according to that place in the romans brought by you , are without excuse , because when they knew god , they glorified him not as god , but became vain in their imaginations , and changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man. i shall only change some of the words in the text you cite out of isaiah ; i have baked part thereof on the coals , and eaten it , and shall i make the residue thereof a god ? shall i fall down to that which comes of a plant ? and so leave them with you to consider whether your jealousy in earnest carries you so far as you talk of ; and whether when you have looked about you , you are still of the mind , that those who do such things should be disfranchised and sent away , and the exercise of no such religion be any where permitted amongst us ? for those things are no less an ahomination to god under a christian than pagan name . one word more i have to say to your jealousy for the honour of god , that if it be any thing more than in talk , it will set it self no less earnestly against other abominations , and the practisers of them than against that of idolatry . as to that in job xxxi . , , . where he says idolatry is to be punished by the judg ; this place alone , were there no other , is sufficient to confirm their opinion , who conclude that book to be writ by a jew . and how little the punishing of idolatry in that commonwealth concerns our present case , i refer you for information to the author's letter . but how does your jealousy for the honour of god , carry you to an exclusion of the pagan religion from amongst you , but yet admit of the jewish and mahometan ? or is not the honour of god concern'd in their denying our saviour ? you go on , but as to the converting jews , mahometans and pagans to christianity , i fear there will be no great progress made in it , till christians come to a better agreement and vnion among themselves . i am sure our saviour prayed that all th●…t should believe in him , might be one in the father and him , ( i. e. i suppose in that holy religion which he taught them from the father ) that the world might believe that the father had sent him : and therefore when he comes to make inquisition , why no more ●…ews , m●…hometans and pagans have been converted to his religion ; i very much fear that a great part of the blame will be found to l●…e upon the authors and promoters of sects and divisions among the professors of it : which therefore , i think , all that are guilty , and all that would not be guilty , ought well to consider . i easily grant that our saviour pray'd that all might be one in that holy religion which he taught them , and in that very prayer teaches what that religion is , this is life eternal , that they might know thee the only true god , and jesus christ whom thou hast 〈◊〉 . but must it be expected , that therefore they should all be of one mind in things not necessary to salvation ? for whatever unity it was our saviour pray'd for here , 't is certain the apostles themselves did not all of them agree in every thing : but even the chief of them have had differences amongst them in matters of religion , as appears , gal. ii. . an agreement in truths necessary to salvation , and the maintaining of charity and brotherly kindness with the diversity of opinions in other things , is that which will very well consist with christian unity , and is all possibly to be had in this world , in such an incurable weakness and difference of mens understandings . this probably would contribute more to the conversion of jews , mahometans and pagans , if there were proposed to them and others , for their admittance into the church , only the plain and simple truths of the gospel necessary to salvation , than all the fruitless pudder and talk about uniting christians in matters of less moment , according to the draught and prescription of a certain set of men any where . what blame will lie on the authors and promoters of sects and divisions , and ( let me add ) animosities amongst christians , when christ comes to make inquisition why no more jews , mahometans and pagans were converted , they who are concerned ought certainly well to consider . and to abate in great measure this mischief for the future , they who talk so much of sects and divisions , would do well to consider too , whether those are not most authors and promoters of sects and divisions , who impose creeds , ceremonies and articles of mens making ; and make things not necessary to salvation , the necessary terms of communion . excluding and driving from them such as out of conscience and perswasion cannot assent and submit to them ; and treating them as if they were utter aliens from the church of god , and such as were deservedly shut out as unfit to be members of it : who narrow christianity within bounds of their own making , and which the gospel knows nothing of ; and often for things by themselves confessed indifferent , thrust men out of their communion , and then punish them for not being of it . who sees not , but the bond of unity might be preserved , in the different perswasions of men concerning things not necessary to salvation , if they were not made necessary to church-communion ? what two thinking men of the church of england are there , who differ not one from the other in several material points of religion ? who nevertheless are members of the same church , and in unity one with another . make but one of those points the shibboleth of a party , and erect it into an article of the national church , and they are presently divided ; and he of the two , whose judgment happens not to agree with national orthodoxy , is immediately cut off from communion . who i beseech you is it in this case that makes the sect ? is it not those who contract the church of christ within limits of their own contrivance ? who by articles and ceremonies of their own forming , separate from their communion all that have not perswasions which just jump with their model ? 't is frivolous here to pretend authority . no man has or can have authority to shut any one out of the church of christ , for that for which christ himself will not shut him out of heaven . whosoever does so , is truly the author and promoter of s●…hism and division , sets up a sect , and tears in pieces the church of christ , of which every one who believes , and practises what is necessary to salvation , is a part and member ; and cannot , without the guilt of schism , be separated from , or kept out of its external communion . in this lording it over the heritage of god , and thus overseeing by imposition on the unwilling , and not consenting , which seems to be the meaning of st. peter , most of the lasting sects which so mangle christianity , had their original , and continue to have their support : and were it not for these establish'd sects under the specious names of national churches , which by their contracted and arbitrary limits of communion , justify against themselves the separation and like narrowness of others , the difference of opinions which do not so much begin to be , as to appear and be owned under toleration , would either make no sect nor division ; or else if they were so extravagant as to be opposite to what is necessary to salvation , and so necessitate a separation , the clear light of the gospel , joined with a strict discipline of manners , would quickly chase them out of the world. but whilst needless impositions , and moot points in divinity are established by the penal laws of kingdoms , and the specious pretences of authority , what hopes is there that there should be such an union amongst christians any where , as might invite a rational turk or infidel to imbrace a religion , whereof he is told they have a revelation from god , which yet in some places he is not suffered to read , and in no place shall he be permitted to understand for himself , or to follow according to the best of his understanding , when it shall at all thwart ( though in things confessed not necessary to salvation ) any of those select points of doctrine , discipline , or outward worship , whereof the national church has been pleased to make up its articles , polity , and ceremonies ? and i ask , what a sober sensible heathen must think of the divisions amongst christians not owing to toleration , if he should find in an island , where christianity seems to be in its greatest purity , the south and north parts establishing churches upon the differences of only whether fewer or more , thus and thus chosen , should govern ; tho the revelation they both pretend be their rule , say nothing directly one way or ●…other : each contending with so much eagerness , that they deny each other to be churches of christ , that is , in effect , to be true christians ? to which if one should add transubstantiation , consubstantiation , real presence , articles and distinctions set up by men without authority from scripture , and other less differences , ( which good christians may dissent about without endangering their salvations ) established by law in the several parts of christendom : i ask , whether the magistrates interposing in matters of religion , and establishing national churches by the force and penalties of civil laws , with their distinct ( and at home reputed necessary ) confessions and ceremonies , do not by law and power authorize and perpetuate sects among christians , to the great prejudice of christianity , and scandal to insidels , more than any thing that can arise from a mutual toleration , with charity and a good life ? those who have so much in their mouths , the authors of sects and divisions , with so little advantage to their cause , i shall desire to consider , whether national churches established as now they are , are not as much sects and divisions in christianity , as smaller collections , under the name of distinct churches , are in respect of the national ? only with this difference , that these subdivisions and discountenanced sects , wanting power to enforce their peculiar doctrines and discipline , usually live more friendly like christians , and seem only to demand christian liberty ; whereby there is less appearance of unchristian division among them : whereas those national sects , being back'd by the civil power , which they never fail to make use of , at least as a pretence of authority over their brethren , usually breath out nothing but force and persecution , to the great reproach , shame , and dishonour of the christian religion . i said , that if the magistrates would severely and impartially set themselves against vice in whomsoever it is found , and leave men to their own consciences in their articles of faith , and ways of worship , true religion would spread wider , and be more fruitful in the lives of its professors , than ever hitherto it has done by the imposing of creeds and ceremonies . here i call only immorality of manners , vice ; you on the contrary , in your answer , give the name of vice to errors in opinion , and difference in ways of worship from the national church : for this is the matter in question between us , express it as you please . this being a contest only about the signification of a short syllable in the english tongue , we must leave to the masters of that language to judg which of these two is the proper use of it . but yet from my using the word vice , you conclude presently , ( taking it in your sense , not mine ) that the magistrate has a power in england ( for england we are speaking of ) to punish dissenters from the national religion , because it is a vice. i will , if you please , in what i said , change the word vice into that i meant by it , and say thus , [ if the magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against the dishonesty and debauchery of mens lives , and such immoralities as i contra-distinguish from errors in speculative opinions of religion , and ways of worship : ] and then pray see how your answer will look , for thus it runs ; it seems then with you the rejecting the true religion , and refusing to worship god in decent ways prescribed by those to whom god has left the ordering of those matters , are not comprehended in the name vice. but you tell me , if i except these things , and will not allow them to be called by the name of vice , perhaps other men may think it as reasonable to except some other things , [ i. e. from being called vices ] which they have a kindness for : for instance , some may perhaps except arbitrary divorce , polygamy , concubinage , simple fornication , or marrying within degrees thought forbidden . let them except these , and if you will , drunkenness , theft , and murder too , from the name of vice ; nay , call them vertues : will they by their calling them so , be exempt from the magistrate's power of punishing them ? or can they claim an impunity by what i have said ? will these immoralities by the names any one shall give , or forbear to give to them , become articles of faith , or ways of worship ? which is all , as i expresly say in the words you here cite of mine , that i would have the magistrates leave men to their own consciences in . but , sir , you have , for me , liberty of conscience to use words in what sense you please ; only i think , where another is concerned , it favours more of ingenuity and love of truth , rather to mind the sense of him that speaks , than to make a dust and noise with a mistaken word , if any such advantage were given you . you say , that some men would through carelesness never acquaint themselves with the truth which must save them , without being forced to do it , which ( you suppose ) may be very true , notwithstanding that ( as i say ) some are called at the third hour , some at the ninth , and some at the eleventh hour ; and whenever they are called , they embrace all the truths necessary to salvation . at least i do not shew why it may not : and therefore this may be no slip for any thing i have said to prove it to be one . this i take not to be an answer to my argument , which was , that since some are not called till the eleventh hour , no body can know who those are , who would never acquaint themselves with those truths that must save them , without force , which is therefore necessary , and may indirectly and at a distance do them some service . whether that was my argument or no , i leave the read●…r to judg : but that you may not mistake it now again , i tell you here it is so , and needs another answer . your way of using punishments in short is this , that all that conform not to the national church , where it is true , as in england , should be punished ; what for ? to make them consider . this i told you had something of impracticable . to which you reply , that you used the word only in another sense , which i mistook : whether i mistook your meaning in the use of that word or no , or whether it was natural so to take it , or whether that opinion which i charged on you by that mistake , when you tell us , that not examining , is indeed the next end for which they are punished , be not your opinion , let us leave to the reader : for when you have that word in what s●…nse you please , what i said will be nevertheless true , ( viz. ) ` that to punish dissenters , as dissenters , to make them consider , has something impracticable in it , unless not to be of the national ` religion , and not to consider , be the same thing . these words you answer nothing to , having as you thought a great advantage of talking about my mistake of your word only . bu●… unless you will suppose , not to be of the national church , and not to consider , be the same thing , it will follow , th●…t to punish dissenters , as dissenters , to make them consider , has something of impracticable in it . the law punishes all dissenters : for what ? to make them all conform , that 's evident ; to what end ? to make them all consider , say you : that cannot be , for it says nothing of it ; nor is it certain that all dissenters have not considered ; nor is there any care taken by the law to enquire whether they have considered , when they do conform ; yet this was the end intended by the magistrate . so then with you it is practicable and allowable in making laws , for the legislator to lay punishments by law on men , for an end which they may be ignorant of , for he says nothing of it ; on men , whom he never takes care to enquire , whether they have done it or no , before he relax the punishment , which had no other next end , but to make them do it . but though he says nothing of considering in laying on the penalties , nor asks any thing about it , when he takes them off ; yet every body must understand that he so meant it . sir , sancho pancha in the government of his island , did not expect that men should understand his meaning by his gaping : but in another island it seems , if you had the management , you would not think it to have any thing of impracticable or impolitick in it . for how far the provision of means of instruction takes this off , we shall see in another place . and lastly , to lay punishments on men for an end which is already attained , ( for some among the dissenters may have considered ) is what other law-makers look on as impracticable , or at least unjust . but to this you answer in your usual way of circle , that if i suppose you are for punishing dissenters whether they consider or no , i am in a great mistake ; for the dissenters ( which is my word , not yours ) whom you are for punishing , are only such as reject the true religion proposed to them with reasons and arguments sufficient to convince them of the truth of it , who therefore can never be supposed to consider those reasons and arguments as they ought , whilst they persist in rejecting that religion , or ( in my language ) continue dissenters ; for if they did so consider them , they would not continue dissenters . of the fault for which men were to be punished , distinguished from the end for which they were to be punished , we heard nothing , as i remember , in the first draught of your scheme , which we had in the argument considered , &c. but i doubt not but in some of your general terms you will be able to find it , or what else you please : for now having spoken out , that men , who are of a different religion from the true , which has been tendred them with sufficient evidence , ( and who are they whom the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things has not furnished with competent means of salvation ) are criminals , and are by the magistrate to be punished as such , 't is necessary your scheme should be compleated ; and whither that will carry you , 't is easy to see . but pray , sir , are there no conformists that so reject the ●…ue religion ? and would you have them punished too , as you here profess ? make that practicable by your scheme , and you have done something to perswade us that your end in earnest in the use of force , is to make men consider , understand , and be of the true religion ; and that the rejecting the true religion tender'd with sufficient evidence , is the crime which bonâ fide you would have punished ; and till you do this , all that you may say concerning punishing men to make them consider as they ought , to make them receive the true religion , to make them imbrace the truth that must save them , &c. will with all sober , judicious and unbiassed readers , pass only for the mark of great zeal , if it scape amongst men as warm and as sagacious as you are , a harsher name : whilst those conformists who neglect matters of religion , who reject the saving truths of the gospel , as visibly and as certainly as any dissenters , have yet no penalties laid upon them . you talk much of considering and not considering as one ought ; of imbracing and rejecting the true religion , and abundance more to this purpose , which all , however very good and savoury words , that look very well , when you come to the application of force , to procure that end expressed in them , amount to no more but conformity and non-conformity . if you see not this , i pity you ; for i would fain think you a fair man , who means well , though you have not light upon the right way to the end you propose : but if you see it , and persist in your use of these good expressions to lead men into a mistake in this matter ; consider what my pagans and mahometans could do worse to serve a bad cause . whatever you may imagine , i write so in this argument , as i have before my eyes the account , i shall one day render for my intention , and regard to truth in the management of it . i look on my self as liable to error as others : but this i am sure of , i would neither impose on you , my self , nor any body ; and should be very glad to have the truth in this point clearly establish'd : and therefore it is , i desire you again to examine , whether all the ends you name to be intended by your use of force , do in effect , when force is to be your way put in practice , reach any farther than bare outward conformity ? pray consider whether it be not that whi●…h makes you so shy of the term dissenters , which you tell me is mine not your word . since none are by your scheme to be punished , but those who do not conform to the national religion , diffenters , i think , is the proper name to call them by : and i can see no reason you have to boggle at it , unless your opinion has something in it you are unwilling should be spoke out , and call'd by its right name : but whether you like it or no , persecution , and persecution of dissenters , are names that belong to it as it stands now . and now i think i may leave you your question , wherein you ask , but cannot dissenters be punished for not being of the national religion , as the fault , and yet only to make them consider , as the end for which they are punished ? to be answered by your self , or to be used again , where you think there is any need of so nice a distinction , as between the fault for which men are punished by laws , and the end for which they are punished : for to me i confess it is hard to find any other immediate end of punishment in the intention of humane laws , but the amendment of the fault punished ; though it may be subordinate to other and remoter ends. if the law be only to punish non-conformity , one may truly say , to cure that fault , or to produce conformity , is the end of that law ; and there i●… nothing else immediately aimed at by that law , but conformity ; and whatever else it tends to as an end , must be only as a consequence of conformity , wh●…ther it be edisication , increase of charity , or saving of souls , or whatever else may be thought a consequence of conformity . so that in a law , which with penalties requires conformity , and nothing else ; o●…e cannot say ( properly i think ) that consideration is the end of that law , unless consideration be a cons●…quence of conformity , to which conformity is subordinate , and does naturally conduce , or else is necessary to it . to my arguing that it is u●…just as well as impracticable , you reply , where the national church is the true church of god , ●…o which all men ought to join themselves , and sufficient evidence is offered to convince men that it 〈◊〉 so : there it is a fault to be out of the national church , because it is a fault not to be convinced that the national church is that true church of god. and therefore since there mens not being so convinced , can only be imputed to their not considering as they ought , the evidence which is ●…ffered to convince them ; it cannot be unjust to punish them to make them so to consider it . pray tell me , which is a man's duty , to be of the national church 〈◊〉 ; or to be ●…onvinced first , that its religion is ●…ue , and then to be of it ? if it be his duty to be convinced 〈◊〉 , why then do you punish him for not being of it , when it is his duty to be ●…onvinced of the truth of its religion , before it is his duty to be of it ? if you say it is his duty to be of it first ; why then is not ●…orce used to him afterwards , though he be still ignorant and unconvinced ? but you answer , it is his fault not to be convinced . what , every one's fault every where ? no , you ●…imit it to places where sufficient evidence is offered to convince men that the national church is the true church of god. to which pray let me add , the national church is so the true church of god , that no body out of its communion can imbrace the truth that must save him , or be in the way to salvation . for if a man may be in the way to salvation out of the national church , he is enough in the true church , and needs no force to bring him into any other : for when a man is in the way to salvation , there is no necessity of force to bring him into any church of any denomination , in order to his salvation . so that not to be of the national church , though true , will not be a fault which the magistrate has a right to punish , until sufficient evidence is offered to prove that a man cannot be saved out of it . now since you tell us , that by sufficient evidence you mean such as will certainly win assent ; when you have offer'd such evidence to convince men , that the national church , any where , is so the true church , that men cannot be saved out of its communion , i think i may allow them to be so faulty as to deserve what punishment you shall think sit . if you hope to mend the matter by the following words , where you say , that where such evidence is offered there mens not being convinced , can only be imputed to mens not considering as they ought , they will not help you . for to consider as they ought , being by your own interpretation , to consider so as not to reject ; then your answer amounts to just thus much , that it is a fault not to be convinced that the national church is the true church of god , where sufficient evidence is offered to convince men that it is so . sufficient evidence is such as will certainly gain assent with th●…se who consider as they ought , i. e. who consider so as not to reject or to be moved heartily to imbrace , which i think is to be convinced . who can have the heart now to deny any of this ? can there be any thing surer , than that mens not being convinc'd , is to be imputed to them if they are not convinc'd , where such evidence is offered to them as does convince them ? and to punish all such you have my free consent . whether all you say have any thing more in it than this , i appeal to my readers ; and should willingly do it to you , did not i fear , that the jumbling of those good and plausible words in your head , of sufficient evidence , consider as one ought , &c. might a little jargogle your thoughts , and lead you hood-wink'd the round of your own beaten circle . this is a danger those are much exposed to , who accustom themselves to relative and doubtful terms , and so put together , that though asunder they signify something , yet when their meaning comes to be cast up as they are placed , it amounts to just nothing . you go on , what justice it would be for the magistrate to punish one for not being a cartesian , it will be time enough to consider when i have proved it to be as necessary for men to be cartesians , as it is to be christians , or members of god's church . this will be a much better answer to what i said , when you have proved that to be a christian or a member of god's church , it is necessary for a dissenter to be of the church of england . if it be not justice to punish a man for not being a cartesian , because it is not as necessary to be a cartesian , as to be a christian ; i fear the same argument will hold against punishing a man for not using the cross in baptism , or not kneeling at the lord's supper ; and it will lie on you to prove , that it is as necessary to use the cross in baptism , or kneeling at the lord's supper , as it is to be a christian : for if they are not as necessary as it is to be a christian , you cannot by your own rule , without injustice , punish men for not conforming to a church wherein they are made an indispensible part of conformity ; and by this rule it will be injustice to punish any man for not being of that church wherein any thing is required not necessary to salvation ; for that , i think , is the necessity of being a christian. to shew the unreasonableness of punishing dissenters to make them examine , i said , that so they were punished for not having offended against a law ; for there is no law of the land that requires them to examine . your reply is , that you think the contrary is plain enough : for where the laws provide sufficient means of instruction in the true religion , and then require all men to imbrace that religion ; you think the most natural construction of those laws is , that they require men to imbrace it upon instruction and conviction , as it cannot be expected they should do without examining the grounds upon which it stands . your answer were very true , if they could not imbrace without examining and conviction . but since there is a shorter way to imbracing , which cost no more pains than walking as far as the church , your answer no more proves , that the law requires examining , than if a man at harwich being subpena'd to appear in westminster-hall next term , you should say the subpena required him to come by sea , because there was sufficient means provided for his passage in the ordinary boat that by appointment goes constantly from harwich to london : but he taking it to be more for his ease and dispatch , goes the shorter way by land , and finds that having made his appearance in court as was required , the law is satisfied , and there is no inquiry made , what way he came thither . if therefore men can imbrace so as to satisfy the law without examining , and it be true that they so fly from the means of right information , are so negligent in , and averse to examining , that there is need of penalties to make them do it , as you tell us at large ; how is it a natural construction of those laws , that they require men to examine , which having provided sufficient means of instruction , require men only to conform , without saying any thing of examining ? especially when the cause assigned by you of mens neglecting to examine , is not want of means of instruction , but want of penalties to over-ballance their aversion to the using those means ; which you your self con●…s , where you say , when the best provision is made that can be , for the instruction of the people , you fear a great part of them will still need penalties to bring them to hear and receive instruction : a●…d therefore perhaps the remainder of tha●… paragraph , when you have considered it again , will not appear so impertinent a declamation as you are pleased to think it : for it charged your method ( as it then stood ) of punishing men for not considering and exami●…ing with these absurdities . that it punished men for not doing that which the law did not require of them , nor declare the neglect of to be a fault , contrary to the ends of all laws , contrary to the common sense of mankind , and the practice of all law-makers , who always ●…irst declared the fault , and then denounced penalties against those who after a time set , should be found guilty of it . it charged your method , that it allows not impunity to the innocent , but punishes whole tribes together , the innocent with the guilty ; and that the thing deligned in the law was not mentioned in it , but left to the people ( whose fault was want of consideration ) to be by consideration found out . to avoid these absurdities , you have reformed your scheme , and now in your reply own with the frankest persecutors , that you punish men downright for their religion , and that to be a dissenter from the true religion , is a fault to be punished by the magistrate . this indeed i●… plain dealing , and clears your method from these absurdities as long as you keep to it : but where ever you tell us , that your laws are to make men hear , to make men consider , to make men examine ; whilst the laws themselves say nothing of hearing , considering and examining , there you are still chargeable with all these absurdities : nor will the distinction , which without any difference you would set up , between the fault for which men are to be punished , and the end for which they are to be punished , do you any service herein , as i have shewed you in another place . to what i said l. . from p. , to p. . concerning those who by your scheme are to be punished , you having thought sit not to answer any thing , i shall here again offer it to your consideration . let us inquire , first , who it is you would have be punished . in the place above cited , they are those who are got into a wrong way , and are deaf to all perswasions . if these are the men to be punished , let a law be made against them : you have my consent ; and that is the proper course to have offenders punished . for you do not , i hope , intend to punish any fault by a law , which you do not name in the law ; nor make a law against any fault you would not have punished . and now , if you are sincere , and in earnest , and are ( as a fair man should be ) for what your words plainly signify , and nothing else ; what will such a law serve for ? men in the wrong way are to be punished : but who are in the wrong way , is the question . you have no more reason to determine it against one , who differs from you , than he has to conclude against you , who differ from him : no , not tho you have the magistrate and the national church on your side . for if to differ from them be to be in the wrong way ; you who are in the right way in england , will be in the wrong way in france . every one here must be judg for himself : and your law will reach no body , till you have convinced him he is in the wrong way : and then there will be no need of punishment to make him consider ; unless you will affirm again what you have denied , and have men punished for imbracing the religion they believe to be true , when it differs from yours or the publick . besides being in the wrong way , those who you would have punished , must be such as are deaf to all perswasions . but any such , i suppose , you will hardly sind , who hearken to no body , not to those of their own way . if you mean by deaf to all perswasions , all perswasions of a contrary party , or of a different church ; such , i suppose , you may abundantly find in your own church , as well as else-where ; and i presume to them you are so charitable , that you would not have them punished for not lending an ear to seducers . for constancy in the truth , and perseverance in the faith , is ( i hope ) rather to be incouraged , than by any penalties check'd in the orthodox . and your church doubtless , as well as all others , is orthodox to it self in all its tenets . if you mean by all perswasion , all your perswasion , or all perswasion of those of your communion ; you do but beg the question , and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from , and will not comply with you . your next words are , when men fly from the means of a right information , and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and impartially to examine a religion , which they embraced upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it ; what humane method can be used to bring them to act like men , in an affair of such consequence , and to make a wiser and more rational choice , but that of laying such penalties upon them , as may ballance the weight of those prejudices which inclined them to prefer a false way before the true , and recover them to so much sobriety and ref●…ction , as seriously to put the question to themselves , whether it be really worth the while to undergo such inconveniences for adhering to a religion , which , for any thing they know , may be false , or for rejecting another ( if that be the case ) which , for any thing they know , may be true , till they have brought it to the bar of reason , and given it a fair trial there ? here you again bring in such as prefer a false way before a true : to which having answered already , i shall here say no more , but , that since our church will not allow those to be in a false way who are out of the church of rome , because the church of rome ( which pretends infallibility ) declares hers to be the only true way ; certainly no one of our church ( nor any other , which claims not infallibility ) can require any one to take the testimony of any church , as a sufficient proof of the truth of her own doctrine . so that true and false ( as it commonly happens , when we suppose them for our selves , or our party ) in effect , signify just nothing , or nothing to the purpose ; unless we can think that true or false in england , which will not be so at rome or geneva ; and vice versâ . as for the rest of the description of those , on whom you are here laying penalties ; i beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your church , let it be what it will. consider , i say , if there be none in your church who have imbraced her religion upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it ; who have not been inclined by prejudices ; who do not adhere to a religion , which for any thing they know may be false ; and who have rejected another , which for any thing they know may be true . if you have any such in your communion , ( and 't will be an admirable , though i fear but a little flock that has none such in it ) consider well what you have done . you have prepared rods for them , for which i imagine they will con you no thanks . for to make any tolerable sense of what you here propose , it must be understood that you would have men of all religions punished , to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such inconveniences for adhering to a religion , which for any thing they know may be false . if you hope to avoid that , by what you have said of true and false ; and pretend that the supposed preference of the true way in your church , ought to preserve its members from your punishment ; you manifestly trifle . for every church's testimony , that it has chosen the true way , must be taken for it self ; and then none will be liable ; and your new invention of punishment is come to nothing : or else the differing churches testimonies must be taken one for another ; and then they will be all out of the true way , and your church need penalties as well as the rest . so that , upon your principles , they must all or none be punished . chuse which you please ; one of them , i think , you cannot escape . what you say in the next words ; where instruction is stifly refused , and all admonitions and perswasions prove vain and ineffectual ; differs nothing but in the way of expressing , from deaf to all perswasions : and so that is answered already . in another place , you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished , in these words ; those who refuse to embrace the doctrine , and submit to the spiritual government of the proper ministers of religion , who by special designation , are appointed to exhort , admonish , reprove , &c. here then , those to be punished , are such who refuse to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the proper ministers of religion . whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before , who those are who ( by your scheme , and laws sutable to it ) are to be punished ; since every church has , as it thinks , its proper ministers of religion : and if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the ministers of another church ; then all men will be guilty , and must be punished , even those of your own church as well as others . if you mean those who refuse , &c. the ministers of their own church , very few will incur your penalties : but if by these proper ministers of religion , the ministers of some particular church are intended , why do you not name it ? why are you so reserved in a matter , wherein , if you speak not out , all the rest that you say will be to no purpose ? are men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the proper ministers of the church of geneva ? for this time ( since you have declared nothing to the contrary ) let me suppose you of that church ; and then i am sure , that is it that you would name : for of whatever church you are , if you think the ministers of any one church ought to be hear kned to , and obeyed , it must be those of your own . there are persons to be punished , you say : this you contend for all through your book , and lay so much stress on it , that you make the preservation and propagation of religion , and the salvation of souls , to depend on it : and yet you describe them by so general and equivocal marks , that , unless it be upon suppositions which no body will grant you , i dare say , neither you nor any body else will be able to find one guilty . pray find me , if you can , a man whom you can judicially prove ( for he that is to be punished by law , must be fairly tried ) is in a wrong way , in respect of his faith ; i mean , who is deaf to all perswasions , who flies from all means of a right information , who refuses to imbrace the doctrine , and submit to the government of the spiritual pastors . and when you have done that , i think i may allow you what power you please to punish him , without any prejudice to the toleration the author of the letter proposes . but why , i pray , all this boggling , all this loose talking , as if you knew not what you meant , or durst not speak it out ? would you be for punishing some body , you know not whom ? i do not think so ill of you . let me then speak out for you . the evidence of the argument has convinced you that men ought not to be persecuted for their religion ; that the severities in use amongst christians cannot be defended ; that the magistrate has not authority to compel any one to his religion . this you are forced to yield . but you would fain retain some power in the magistrate's hands to punish dissenters , upon a new pretence , viz. not for having imbraced the doctrine and worship they believe to be true and right , but for not having well considered their own and the magistrate's religion . to shew you that i do not speak wholly without book , give me leave to mind you of one passage of yours : the words are , 〈◊〉 to put them upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them . though these words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished , yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them . and they more clearly point out whom you aim at , than all the foregoing places , where you seem to ( and should ) describe them . for they are such as between whom and the magistrate there is a controversy ; that is , in short , who differ from the magistrate in religion . and now indeed you have given us a note by which these you would have punished may be known . we have , with much ado , found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished . which in other cases is usually not very difficult : because there the faults to be amended , easily design the persons to be corrected . but yours is a new method , and unlike all that ever went before it . in the next place , let us see for what you would have them punished . you tell us , and it will easily be granted you , that not to examine and weigh impartially , and without prejudice or passion , ( all which , for shortness sake , we will express by this one word consider ) the religion one embraces or refuses , is a fault very common , and very prejudicial to true religion , and the salvation of mens souls . but penalties and punishments are very necessary , say you , to remedy this evil. let us now see how you apply this remedy . therefore , say you , let all dissenters be punished . why ? have no dissenters considered of religion ? or have all conformists considered ? that you your self will not say . your project therefore is just as reasonable , as if a lethargy growing epidemical in england , you should propose to have a law made to blister and scarify and shave the heads of all who wear gowns ; tho it be certain that neither all who wear gowns are lethargick , nor all who are lethargick wear gowns . — dii te , dama●…ppe , deaeque v●…um ob consilium donent tonsore . for there could not be certainly a more learned advice , than that one man should be pull'd by the ears , because another is asleep . this , when you have consider'd of it again , ( for i find , according to your principle , all men have now and then need to be jogg'd ) you will , i guess , be convinced is not like a fair physician , to apply a remedy to a disease ; but , like an engaged enemy , to ' vent one's spleen upon a party . common sense , as well as common justice , requires , that the remedies of laws and penalties should be directed against the evil that is to be removed , where-ever it be found . and if the punishment you think so necessary , be ( as you pretend ) to cure the mischief you complain of , you must let it pursue , and fall on the guilty , and those only , in what company soever they are ; and not , as you here propose , and is the highest injustice , punish the innocent considering dissenter , with the guilty ; and , on the other side , let the inconsiderate guilty conformist scape , with the innocent . for one may rationally presume that the national church has some , nay more , in proportion of those who little consider or concern themselves about religion , than any congregation of dissenters . for conscience , or the care of their souls , being once laid aside ; interest , of course , leads men into that society , where the protection and countenance of the government , and hopes of preferment , bid fairest to all their remaining desires . so that if careless , negligent , inconsiderate men in matters of religion , who , without being forced , would not consider , are to be rouzed into a care of their souls , and a search after truth , by punishments ; the national religion , in all countries , will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those punishments , at least , not to be wholly exempt from them . this is that which the author of the letter , as i remember , complains of , and that justly , viz. that the pretended care of mens souls always expresses it self , in those who would have force any way made use of to that end , in very unequal methods ; some persons being to be treated with severity , whilst others , guilty of the same faults , are not to be so much as touched . though you are got pretty well out of the deep mud , and renounce punishments directly for religion ; yet you stick still in this part of the mire ; whilst you would have dissenters punished to make them consider , but would not have any thing done to conformists , though never so negligent in this point of considering . the author's letter pleased me , because it is equal to all mankind , is direct , and will , i think , hold every-where ; which i take to be a good mark of truth . for i shall always suspect that neither to comport with the truth of religion , or the design of the gospel , which is suted to only some one country or party . what is true and good in england , will be true and good at rome too , in china or geneva . but whether your great and only method for the propagating of truth , by bringing the inconsiderate by punishments to consider , would ( according to your way of applying your punishments only to dissenters from the national religion ) be of use in those countries , or any where but where you suppose the magistrate to be in the right , judg you . pray , sir , consider a little , whether prejudice has not some share in your way of arguing . for this is your position ; men are generally negligent in examining the grounds of their religion . this i grant . but could there be a more wild and incoherent consequence drawn from it , than this ; therefore dissenters must be punished ? all this you are pleased to pass over without the least notice : but perhaps you think you have made me full satisfaction in your answer to my demand , who are to be punish'd ? we will here therefore consider that as it stands , where you tell us , those who are to be punished according to the whole tenour of your answer , are no other but such , as having sufficient evidence tender'd them of the true religion , do yet reject it : whether utterly refusing to consider that evidence , or not considering as they ought , viz. with such care and diligence as the matter deserves and requires , and with honest and unbiassed minds ; and what difficulty there is in this , you say you cannot imagine . you promised you would tell the world , who they were plainly and directly . and though you tell us , you cannot imagine what difficulty there is in this your account of who are to be punished , yet there are some things in it , that make it to my apprehension not very plain and direct . for first they must be only those who have the true religion tender'd them with sufficient evidence : wherein there appears some difficulty to me , who shall be judg what is the true religion : and for that , in every country 't is most probable the magistrate will be . if you think of any other , pray tell us . next there seems some difficulty to know , who shall be judg what is sufficient evidence . for where a man is to be punished by law , he must be convicted of being guilty ; which since in this case he cannot be , unless it be proved he has had the true religion tender'd to him with sufficient evidence , it is necessary that some body there must be judg what is the true religion , and what is sufficient evidence ; and others to prove it has been so tender'd . if you were to be of the jury , we know what would be your verdict concerning sufficient evidence , by these words of yours , to say that a man who has the true religion proposed to him with sufficient evidence of its truth , may consider it as he ought , or do his utmost in considering , and yet not 〈◊〉 the truth of it , is neither more nor less , than to say that sufficient evidence is not sufficient : for what does any man mean by sufficient evidence , but such as will certainly win assent where-ever it is duly considered ? upon which his conforming , or not conforming , would without any farther questions determine the point . but whether the rest of the jury could upon this be able ever to bring in any man guilty , and so liable to punishment , is a question . for if sufficient evidence be only that which certainly wins assent , where-ever a man does his utmost in considering , 't will be very hard to prove that a man who rejects the true religion , has had it tender'd with sufficient evidence , because it will be very hard to prove he has not done his utmost in considering it . so that notwithstanding all you have here said , to punish any man by your method is not yet so very practicable . but you clear all in your following words , which say , there is nothing more evident than that those who reject the true religion , are culpable , and deserve to be punished . by whom ? by men : that 's so far from being evident , as you talk , that it will require better proofs than i have yet seen for it . next you say , 't is easy enough to know when men reject the true religion . yes , when the true religion is known , and agreed on what shall be taken to be so in judicial proceedings , which can scarce be till 't is agreed who shall determine what is true religion , and what not . suppose a penalty should in the university be laid on those who rejected the true peripatetick doctrine , could that law be executed on any one , unless it were agreed who should be judg what was the true peripatetick doctrine ? if you say it may be known out of aristotle's writings : then i answer , that it would be a more reasonable law to lay the penalty on any one , who rejected the doctrine contained in the books allowed to be aristotle's , and printed under his name . you may apply this to the true religion , and the books of the scripture , if you please : though after all there must be a judg agreed on , to determine what doctrines are contained in either of those writings , before the law can be practicable . but you go on to prove , that it is easy to know when men reject the true religion : for , say you , that requires no more than that we know that that religion was 〈◊〉 to them with sufficient evidence of the truth of it . and that it may be tender'd to men with such evidence , and that it may be known when it is so tender'd , these things , you say , you take leave here to suppose . you suppose then more than can be allow'd you . for that it can be judicially known that the true religion has been tender'd to any one with sufficient evidence , is what i deny , and that for reasons above mentioned , which were there no other difficulty in it , were sufficient to shew the unpracticableness of your method . you conclude this paragraph thus , which is all that needs be said upon this head to shew the consistency and practicableness of this method : and what do you any where say against this ? whether i say any thing or no against it , i will bring a friend of yours that will say that dissenters ought to be punished for being out of the communion of the church of england . i will ask you now , how it can be proved that such an one is guilty of rejecting the one only true religion ? perhaps it is because he 〈◊〉 the cross in baptism , or godfathers and godmothers as th●…y are used , or kneeling at the lord's supper ; perhaps it is because he cannot pronounce all damn'd that believe not all 〈◊〉 's creed , or cannot join with some of those repetitions in our common prayer , thinking them to come within the prohibition of our saviour , each of which shuts a man out from the communion of the church of england , as much as if he denied jesus christ to be the son of god. now , sir , i be●…eech you , how can it be known , that ever sufficient evidence was tender'd to such a dissenter to prove , that what he rejects is a part of that one only true religion , which unless he be of , he cannot be saved ? or indeed how can it be known , that any dissenter rejects that one only true religion , when being punished barely for not conforming , he is never asked , what part it is he dissents from or rejects ? and so it may be some of those things which i imagine will always want sufficient evidence to prove them to be parts of that only one true religion , without the hearty imbracing whereof no man can be saved . chap. iv. what degrees of punishment . how much soever you have endeavoured to reform the doctrine of persecution to make it serve your turn , and give it the colour of care and zeal for the true religion in the country where alone you are concern'd it should be made use of ; yet you have laboured in vain , and done no more , but given the old engine a new varnish to set it off the better , and make it look less frightful : for by what has been said in the foregoing chapters , i think it will appear , that if any magistrate have power to punish . men in matters of religion , all have ; and that dissenters from the national religion must be punished every where or no where . the horrid cruelties that in all ages , and of late in our view , have been committed under the name , and upon the account of religion , give so just an offence and abhorrence to all who have any remains , not only of religion , but humanity left , that the world is ashamed to own it . this objection therefore , as much as words or professions can do , you have laboured to fence against ; and to exempt your design from the suspition of any severities , you take care in every page almost to let us hear of moderate force , moderate penalties ; but all in vain : and i doubt not but when this part too is examined , it will appear , that as you neither have , nor can limit the power of punishing to any distinct sort of magistrates , nor exempt from punishment the dissenters from any national religion : so neither have , nor can you limit the punishment to any degree short of the highest , if you will use punishments at all in matters of religion . what you have done in this point besides giving us good words , i will now examine . you tell me , i have taken a liberty which will need pardon , because i say , ` you have plainly yielded the question by owning `those greater severities to be improper and unsit . but if i shall make it out , that those are as proper and sit as your moderate penalties ; and that if you will use one , you must come to the other , as will appear from what you your self say : whatever you may think , i shall not imagine other readers will conclude i have taken too great a liberty , or shall much need pardon . for if as you say in the next page , authority may reasonably and justly use some degrees of force where it is needful ; i say they may also use any degree of force where it is needful . now upon your grounds , fire and sword , tormenting and undoing , and those other punishments which you condemn , will be needful , even to torments of the highest severity , and be as necessary as those moderate penalties which you will not name . for i ask you , to what purpose do you use any degree of force ? is it to prevail with men to do something that is in their power , or that is not ? the latter i suppose you will not say , till your love of force is so increased , that you shall think it necessary to be made use of to produce impossibilities : if force then be to be used only to bring men to do what is in their power , what is the necessity you assign of it ? only this , as i remember , viz. that when gentle admonitions and earnest intreaties will not prevail , what other means is there left but force ? and i upon the same ground reply ; if lesser degrees of force will not prevail , what other means is there left but greater ? if the lowest degree of force be necessary where gentler means will not prevail , because there is no other means left ; higher degrees of force are necessary where lower will not prevail , for the same reason . unless you will say all degrees of force work alike ; and that lower penalties prevail as much on men as greater , and will equally bring them to do what is in their power . if so a phlip on the forehead , or a farthing mulct , may be penalty enough to bring men to what you propose . but if you shall laugh at these , as being for their smalness insufficient , and therefore will think it necessary to increase them , i say , where-ever experience shews any degree of force to be insufficient to prevail , there will be still the same necessity to increase it . for where-ever the end is necessary , and force is the means , the only means left to procure it , both which you suppose in our case , there it will be found always necessary to increase the degrees of force , where the lower prove ineffectual , as well till you come to the highest , as when you begin with the lowest . so that in your present case i do not wonder you use so many shifts , as i shall shew by and by you do , to decline naming the highest degree of what you call moderate . if any degree be necessary , you cannot assign any one ( condemn it in words as much as you please ) which may not be so , and which you must not come to the use of . if there be no such necessity of force as will justify those higher degrees of it , which are severities you condemn , neither will it justify the use of your lower degrees . if , as you tell us , false religions prevail against the true , merely by the advantage they have in the corruption and pravity of humane nature left to it self unbridled by authority . if the not receiving the true religion be a mark and effect merely of the prevalency of the corruption of humane nature ; may not , nay , must not the magistrate , if less will not do , use his ●…most force to bring men to the true religion ? his force being given him to suppress that corruption ; especially since you give it for a measure of the force to be used , that it must be so much , as without which ordinarily they will not imbrace the truth that must save them . what ordinarily signifies here to make any determinate measure is hard to guess ; but signify it what it will , so much force must be used , as without which men will not imbrace the truth ; which , if it signify any thing intelligible , requires , that where lower degrees will not do , greater must be used , till you come to what will ordinarily do ; but what that ordinarily is , no man can tell . if one man will not be wrought on by as little force as another , must not greater degrees of force be used to him ? shall the magistrate who is obliged to do what lies in him , be exeused , for letting him be damn'd , without the use of all the means was in his power ? and will it be sufficient for him to plead , that though he did not all what lay in him , yet he did what ordinarily prevailed , or what prevailed on several others . force , if that be the remedy , must be proportion'd to the opposition . if the dose that has frequently wrought on others , will not purge a man whose life lies on it , must it not therefore be made sufficient and effectual , because it will be more than what is called ordinary ? or can any one say the physician has done his duty , who lets his patient in an extraordinary case perish in the use of only moderate remedies , and pronounces him incurable , before he has tried the utmost he can with the powerfullest remedies which are in his reach ? having renounced loss of estate , corporal punishments , imprisonment , and such sort of severities , as unfit to be used in matters of religion ; you ask , will it follow from ●…ence that the magistrate has no right to use any force at all ? yes , it will follow , till you give some answer to what i say in that place , viz. that if you give up punishments of a man in his person , liberty and estate , i think we need not stand with you for any punishments may be made use of . but this you pass by without any notice . i doubt not but you will here think you have a ready answer , by telling me , you mean only depriving men of their estates , mai●…ing them with corporal punishments , starving and tormenting them in no●…som prisons , and other such severities which you have by name excepted ; but lower penalties may yet be used , for penalties is the word you carefully use , and disclaim that of punishment , as if you disowned the thing . i wish you would tell us too by name , what those lower penalties are you would have used , as well as by name you tell us those severities you disallow . they may not maim a man with corporal punishments ; may they use any corporal punishments at all ? they may not starve and 〈◊〉 them in noisom prisons for religion , that you condemn as much as i : may they put them in any prison at all ? they may not deprive men of their estates ; i suppose you mean their whole estates : may they take away half , or a quarter , or an hundred●… part ? 't is strange you should be able to name the degrees of severity that will hinder more than promote the progress of religion , and cannot name those degrees that will promote rather than hinder it ; that those who would take their measures by you , and follow your scheme , might know how to proceed so , as not to do more harm than good : for since you are so certain , that there are degrees of punishments or penalties that will do good , and other degrees of them that will do harm ; ought you not to have told us , what that true degree is , or how it may be known , without which all your goodly scheme is of no use ? for allowing all you have said to be as true as you would have it , no good can be done without shewing the just measure of punishment to be used . if the degree be too great , it will , you confess , do harm : can one then not err on the other hand , by using too little ? if you say so , we are agreed , and i desire no better tolera●…on . if therefore too great will do harm , and too little , in your opinion will do no good , you ought to tell us the just mean. this i pressed upon you ; whereof that the reader may be judg , i shall here trouble him with the repetition . there is a third thing , that you are as tender and reserv'd in , as either naming the criminals to be punished , or positively telling us the end for which they should be punished ; and that is , with what sort of penalties , what degree of punishment they should be forced . you are indeed so gracious to them , that you renounce the severities and penalties hitherto made use of . you tell us , they should be but moderate penalties . but if we ask you what are moderate penalties , you confess you cannot tell us : so that by moderate here , you yet mean nothing . you tell us , the outward force to be applied , should be duly tempered . but what that due temper is , you do not , or cannot say ; and so in effect , it signifies just nothing . yet if in this you are not plain and direct , all the rest of your design will signify nothing . for it being to have some men , and to some end , punished ; yet if it cannot be found what punishment is to be used , it is ( notwithstanding all you have said ) utterly useless . you tell us modestly , that to determine precisely the just measure of the punishment , will require some consideration . if the faults were precisely determined , and could be proved , it would require no more consideration to determine the measure of the punishment in this , than it would in any other case , where those were known . but where the fault is undesined , and the guilt not to be proved , ( as i suppose it will be found in this present business of examining ) it will without doubt require consideration to proportion the force to the design : just so much consideration as it will require to fit a coat to the moon , or proportion a shoe to the feet of those who inhabit her . for to proportion a punishment to a fault that you do not name , ( and so we in charity ought to think you do not yet know ) and a fault that when you have named it , will be impossible to be proved who are or are not guilty , of it ; will i suppose require as much consideration as to fit a shoe to feet whose size and shape are not known . however , you offer some measures whereby to regulate your punishments ; which when they are looked into , will be found to be just as good as none , they being impossible to be any rule in the case . the first is , so much force , or such penalties as are ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common difere●…on , and not de●…erately perverse and obstinate , to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially , and without which ordinarily they will not do this . where it is to be observed : first , that who are these men of common discretion , is as hard to know , as to know what is a fit degree of punishment in the case ; and so you do but regulate one uncertainty by another . some men will be apt to think , that he who will not weigh matters of religion , which are of infinite concernment to him , without punishment , cannot in reason be thought a man of common discretion . many women of common discretion enough to manage the ordinary affairs of their families , are not able to read a page in an ordinary author , or to understand and give an account what it m●…ans , when read to them . many men of common discretion in their callings , are not able to judg when an argument is conclusive or no ; much less to trace it through a long train of consequences . what penalties shall be sufficient to prevail with such ( who upon examination , i fear , will not be found to make the least part of mankind ) to examine and weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially ? the law allows all to have common discretion , for whom it has not provided guardians or bedlam . so that , in effect , your men of common discretion , are all men , not judg'd idiots or mad-men : and penalties sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , are penalties sufficient to prevail with all men but idiots and mad-men . which what a measure it is to regulate penalties by , let all men of common discretion judg . secondly , you may be pleased to consider , that all men of the same degree of discretion , are not apt to be moved by the same degree of penalties . some are of a more yielding , some of a more stiff temper ; and what is sufficient to prevail on one , is not half enough to move the other ; though both men of common discretion . so that common discretion will be here of no use to determine the measure of punishment : especially , when in the same clause you except men desperately perverse and obstinate ; who are as hard to be known , as what you seek , viz. the just proportions of punishments necessary to prevail with men to consider , examine , and weigh matters of religion ; wherein , if a man tells you he has considered , he has weighed , he has examined , and so goes on in his former course , 't is impossible for you ever to know whether he has done his duty , or whether he be desperately perverse and obstinate . so that this exception signifies just nothing . there are many things in your use of force and penalties , different from any i ever met with elsewhere . one of them , this clause of yours concerning the measure of punishments , now under consideration , offers me ; wherein you proportion your punishments only to the yielding and corrigible , not to the perverse and obstinate ; contrary to the common discretion which has hitherto made laws in other cases , which levels the punishments against refractory offenders , and never spares them because they are obstinate . this however i will not blame as an over-sight in you . your new method , which aims at such impracticable and inconsistent things as laws cannot bear , nor penalties be useful to , forced you to it . the uselesness , ab●…dity , and unreasonableness of great severi●…s , you had acknowledged in the foregoing paragraphs : dissenters you would have brought to consider by moderate ●…eties ; they lie under them ; but whether they have considered or no , ( for that you cannot tell ) they still continue dissenters . what is to be done now ? why , the incurable are to be left to god , as you tell us . your punishments were not meant to prevail on the desperately perverse and obstinate , as you tell us here . and so whatever be the success , your punishments are however justified . the fulness of your answer to my question , with what punishments , made you possibly pass by these two or three pages without making any particular reply to any thing i said in them : we will therefore examine that answer of yours , where you tell us , that having in your answer declared that you take the severities so often mentioned ( which either destroy men , or make them miserable ) to be utterly unapt and improper ( for reasons there given ) to bring men to imbrace the truth that must save them : but just how far within those bounds that force extends it self , which is really serviceable to that end , you do not presume to determine . to determine how far moderate force reaches , when it is necessary to your business that it should be determined , is not presuming : you might with more reason have called it presuming , to talk of moderate penalties , and not to be able to determine what you mean by them ; or to promise , as you do , that you will tell plainly and directly , with what punishments ; and here to tell us , you do not presume to determine . but you give a reason for this modesty of yours , in what follows , where you tell me , i have not shown any cause why you should . and yet you may find in what is above repeated to you , these words , if in this you are not plain and direct , all the rest of your design will signify nothing . but had i failed in shewing any cause why you should ; and your charity would not enlighten us , unless driven by my reasons , i dare say yet , if i have not shown any cause why you should determine in this point , i can shew a cause why you should not . for i will be answerable to you , that you cannot name any degree of punishment , which will not be either so great , as to come amongst those you condemn , and shew what your moderation , what your aversion to persecution is ; or else too little to attain those ends for which you propose it . but whatever you tell me , that i have shewn no cause why you should determine , i thought it might have passed for a cause why you should determine more particularly , that ( as you will find in those pages ) i had proved that the measures , you offer whereby to regulate your punishments , are just as good as none . your measures in your argument considered , and which you repeat here again , are in these words ; so much force , or such p●…nalties as are ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse , to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially , and without which ordinarily they will not do this ; so much force , or such penalties may fitly and reasonably be used for the pr●…moting true religion in the world , and the salvation of souls . and what just exception this is liable to , you do not understand . some of the exceptions it is liable to , you might have seen in what i have here again caused to be reprinted , if you had thought them worth your notice . but you go on to tell us here , that when you speak of men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate , you think 't is plain enough , that by common discretion you exclude not idiots only , and such as we usually call mad-men , but likewise the desperately perverse and obstinate , who perhaps may well enough deserve that name , though they be not wont to be sent to bedlam . whether by this you have at all taken off the difficulty , and shewn your measure to be any at all in th●… use of force , i leave the reader to judg . i asked , since great ones are unfit , what degrees of punishment or force are to be used ? you answer , so much force , and such penalties as are ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men of ordinary discretion . i tell you 't is as hard to know who those men of common discretion are , as what degree of punishment you would have used ; unless we will take the determination of the law , which allows all to have common discretion , for whom it has not provided guardians or bedlam : so that in effect , your men of common discretion are all men not judg'd idiots or mad-men . to clear this , you tell us , when you speak of men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate , you think 't is plain enough , by common discretion you exclude not idiots only , and such as are usually called mad-men , but likewise the desperately perverse and obstinate . it may be you did , for you best know what you meant in writing : but if by men of common discretion , you excluded the desperately perverse and obstinate , let us put what you meant by the words , men of common discretion , in the place of those words themselves , and then according to your meaning , your rule stands thus ; penalties ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men not desperately perverse and obstinate , and with men not desperately perverse and obstinate : so that at last , by men of common discretion , either you excluded only idiots and mad-men ; or if we must take your word for it , that by them you excluded likewise the desperately pe●…verse and obstinate , and so meant something else ; 't is plain , you meant only a very useless and insignificant tantology . you go on , and tell us , if the penalties you steak of , be intended for the curing mens unreasonable prejudices and refractoriness against the true religion , then the reason why the desperately perverse and obstinate are not to be regarded in measuring these penalties , is very apparent . for as remedies are not provided for the incurable , so in the preparing and tempering them , regard is to be had only to those for whom they are designed . which , true or false , is nothing to the purpose , in a place where you profess to inform us , what punishments are to be used . we are inquiring who are the desperately perverse and obstinate , and not whether they are to be punished or no. you pretend to give us a rule to know what degrees of force are to be used , and tell us , it is so much as is ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate . we again ask , who are your men of common 〈◊〉 ? you tell us , such as are not mad-men or idiots , or desperately perverse and obstinate . very well ; but who are those desperately perverse and obstinate , how shall we know them ? and to this you t●…ll us , they are not to be regarded in measuring these penalties . whereby certainly we have got a plain measure of your moderate p●…nalties . no , not yet , you go on in the next paragraph to p●…fect it , where you say , to prevent a little cavil , it m●…y be needf●…l to note that there are degrees of 〈◊〉 and obstinacy , and that men may be p●…verse and obstinate without being d●…sperately so . so then now we have your measure compleat ; and ●…o deter●…ine the just degrees of punishments ; and to clear up the doubt , who are the desperately perverse and obstinate , we need but be told that there are degrees of perverseness and obstinacy ; and that men may be perverse and obstinate without being desperately so : and that therefore some perverse and obstinate persons may be thought curable , though such as are desperately so , cannot . but does all this tell us who are the desperately perverse and obstinate ? which is the thing we want to be informed in ; nor till you have told us that , have you removed the objection . but if by desperately perverse and obstinate , you will tell us , you meant those , that are not wrought upon by your moderate penalties , as you seem to intimate in your reason why the desperately perverse and obstinate are not to be regarded in measuring these penalties : for , say you , as remedies are not provided for the incurable ; so in preparing and tempering them , regard is to be had only to those for whom they are designed . so that by the desperately perverse and obstinate , you will perhaps say 't was plain you meant the incurable ; for you ordinarily shift off the doubtfulness of one place , by appealing to as doubtful an expression in another . if you say then , that by desperately perverse and obstinate , you mean incurable ; i ask you again by what incurable ? by your lower degrees of force ? for i hope where force is proper to work , those who are not wrought on by lower degrees , may yet be by higher . if you mean so , then your answer will amount to thus much , moderate penalties are such as are sufficient to prevail on those who are not desperately perverse and obstinate . the desperately perverse and obstinate are those who are incu●…ble , and the incurable are those on whom moderate penalties are not sufficient to prevail : whereby at last we have got a sure measure of what are moderate penalties ; just such an one , as if having a soveraign universal medicine put into your hand , which will never fail , if you can hit the right dose , which the inventer tells you must be moderate : you should ask him what was the moderate quantity it is to be given in ? and he should answer , in such a quantity as was ordinarily sufficient to work on common constitutions , and not desperately perverse and obstinate . and to you asking again , who were of desperately perverse and obstinate constitutions ? it should be answered , those that were incurable . and who were incurable ? those whom a moderate quantity would not work on . and thus to your satisfaction , you know the moderate dose by the desperately perverse and obstinate ; and the desperately perverse and obstinate by being incurable ; and the incurable by the moderate dose . for if , as you say , remedies are not provided for the incurable , and none but moderate penalties are to be provided , is it not plain , that you mean , that all that will not be wrought on by your moderate penalties , are in your sense incurable ? to ease you , sir , of justifying your self , and shewing that i have mistaken you , do but tell us positively what in penalties is the highest degree of moderate ; who are desperately perverse and obstinate ; or who are incurable , without this relative and circular way of defining one by the other ; and i will yield my self to have mistaken you , as much as you please . if by incurable you mean such as no penalties , no punishments , no force is sufficient to work on ; then your measure of moderate penalties will be this , that they are such , as are sufficient to prevail with men not incurable , i. e. who cannot be prevailed on by any punishments , any force whatsoever ; which will be a measure of moderate punishments , which ( whatsoever you do ) some will be very apt to approve of . but let us suppose by these marks ( since you will afford us no better ) that we can find who are desperately perverse and obstinate , we are yet as far as ever from finding the measures of your moderate punishments , till it can be known , what degree of force it is , that is ordinarily sufficient to prev●…il with all that are men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate ; for you are told , that all men of the same degree of discretion are not apt to be moved with the same degree of penalties : but to this too you answer nothing , and so we are still without any rule or means of knowing how to adjust your punishments , that being ordinarily sufficient to prevail upon one , the double whereof is not ordinarily sufficient to prevail on another . i tell you in the same place , that you have given us in another place , something like another boundary to your m●…derate p●…nalties : but when examined , it proves just like the rest , amusing us only with good words , so put together as to have no direct meaning ; an art very much in use amongst some sort o●… learned men : the words are these ; such penalties as may not tempt persons who have any concern for their eternal salvation ( and those who have none , ought not to be considered ) to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or profess one which they do not believe to be so . if by any concern , you mean such as men ought to have for their eternal salvation ; by this rule you may make your punishments as great as you please ; and all the severities you have disclaimed may be brought in play again : for none of those will be able to make a man , who is truly concerned for his eternal salvation , renounce a religion he believes to be true , or profess one he does not believe to be so . if by those who have any concern , you mean such , who have some faint wishes for happiness hereafter , and would be glad to have things go well with them in the other world , but will venture nothing in this world for it ; these the moderatest punishments you can imagine will make to change their religion . if by any concern , you mean whatever may be between these two ; the degrees are so infinite , that to proportion your punishments by that , is to have no measure of them at all . to which all the reply i can find is only this , that there are degrees of carelesness in men of their salvation , as well as of concern for it . so that such as have some concern for their salvation , may yet be careless of it to a great degree . and therefore if those who have any concern for their salvation , deserve regard and pity ; then so may some careless persons : though those who have no concern for their salvation , deserve not to be considered , which spoils a little harangue you give us , p. . if you think this to be an answer to what i said , or that it can satisfy any one concerning the way of knowing what degrees of punishment are to be used , pray tell us so . the enquiry is , what degrees of punishment will tempt a man , who has any concern for his eternal salv●…ion , to renounce a religion he believes to be true ? and 't is answered , there are degrees of carelesness in men of their salvation , as well as concern for it . a happy discovery : what 's the use of it ? so that such as have some concern for their salvation , may yet be careless of it to a great degree . very true : by this we may know what degree of force is to be used . no , not a word of that , but the inference is , and therefore if those who have any concern for their salvation , deserve regard and pity , then so may some careless persons ; though those who have no concern for their salvation , deserve not to be considered . and by this time we know what degree of force will make a man , who has any concern for his salvation , renounce a religion he believes true , and profess one he does not believe to be so . this might do well at cross questions : but you are satisfied with what you have done , and what that is , you tell me in the next words , which spoils a little harangue of yours given us , p. . the harangue i suppose is contained in these words . one thing i cannot but take notice of in this passage before i leave it : and that is , that you say here , those who have no concern for their salvation , deserve not to be considered . in other parts of your letter you pretend to have compassion on the careless , and provide remedies for them : but here of a sudden your charity fails you , and you give them up to eternal perdition , without the least regard , the least pity , and say , they deserve not to be considered . our saviour's rule was , the sick and not the whole need a physician : your rule here is ; those that are careless , are not to be considered , but are to be lest to themselves . this , would seem strange , if one did not observe what drew you to it . you perceiv'd that if the magistrate was to use no punishments , but such as would make no body change their religion , he was to use none at all : for the careless would be brought to the national church with any slight punishments ; and when they are once there , you are it seems satisfied , and look no farther after them . so that by your own measu●…e if the careless , and those who have no concern for their eternal salvation , are to be regarded and taken care of , if the salvation of their souls is to be promoted , there is to be no punishments to be used at all : and therefore you leave them out as not to be considered . what you have said is so far from spoiling that harangue , as you are pleased to call it , that you having nothing else to say to it , allows what is laid to your charge in it . you wind up all concerning the measures of your force in these words ; and as those medicines are thought safe and advisable , which do ordinarily cure , though not always ( as none do ; ) so those penalties or punishments , which are ordinarily found sufficient ( as well as necessary ) for the ends for which they are designed , may fitly and reasonably be used for the compassing these ends. here your ordinarily comes to your help again ; and here one would think that you meant such as cure sometimes , not always ; some , though not all : and in this sense will not the utmost severities come within your rule ? for can you say , if punishments are to be used to prevail on any , that the greater will ( where lower fail ) prevail on none ? at least can you be sure of it till they have been tried for the compassing these end ? which as we shall see in another place , you have assigned various e●…ough . i shall only take notice of two or three often repeated by you , and those are to make men hear , to make men consider , to make men consider as they ought , i. e. as you explain it , to make men consider so , as not to reject . the greatness of the force then , according to this measure , must be sufficient to make men hear , sufficient to make men consider , and sufficient to make men imbrace the true religion . and now the magistrate has all your rules about the measures of punishments to be used , and may considently and safely go to work to establish it by a law : for he having these marks to guide him , that they must be great enough ordinarily to prevail with those who are not idiots or madmen , nor desperately perverse and obstinate , great enough ordinarily to prevail with men to hear , consider and imbrace the true religion , and yet not so great as might tempt persons , who have any concern for their eternal salvation , to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or profess one which they do not believe to be so : do you not think you have sufficiently inst●…ucted him in your meaning , and inabled him to find the just temper of his punishments according to your scheme , neither too much nor too little ? but however you may be satisfied with them , i suppose others , when it comes to be put in practice , will by these measures ( which are all i can find in your scheme ) be scarce able to find , what are the punishments you would have used . in eutopia there is a medicine call'd hiera pi●…ra , which 't is supposed would ●…ure a troublesome disease of that country : but it is not to be given , but in the dose prescribed by the law , and in adjusting the dose lies all the skill : for if you give too much , it heightens the distemper , and sp●…eads the mortal contagion ; and if too little , it does no good at all with this difficulty the law-makers have been perpl●…xed these many ages , and could not light on the right dose , that would work the cure , till lately there came an undertak●… , who would shew them how they could not mistake . he bid them then prescribe so much , as would ordinarily be effectual upon all that were not idiots or mad-men , o●… in whom ●…e humour was not 〈◊〉 perverse and 〈◊〉 , to produce the end for which it was designed ; but n●…t so much as would make a 〈◊〉 health , who had any concern for b●… life , fall into a mort●… disease . these were good words , and he was rewarded for them : but when by them they came to ●…ix the 〈◊〉 , t●…y could not tell whether it ought to be a g●…ain , a 〈◊〉 or an ounce , or a whole pound , any more than before ; and so the 〈◊〉 of their hiera picra , notwithstanding this gentleman's ●…in is a uncertain , and that soveraign remedy as 〈◊〉 as e●…er it was . in the next paragraph you tell us , you do not see what more can be required to justify the rule here given so qui●…k a sight needs no spectacles . for if i demand that it should 〈◊〉 what penalties particularly are such as it says may fitly and reasonably be used ; this i must give you leave to tell me is a very unreasonable demand . it is an unreasonable d●…mand , if your rule be such , that by it i may know without any more ado the par●…icular penalties that are sit ; otherwise it is not unreasonable to demand them by name , if your marks be not sufficient to know them by . but let us hear your reason , for what rule is there that expresses the particulars that agree with it ? and it is an admirable rule with which one can find no particulars that agree ; for i challenge you to instance in one : a rule , you say , is intended for a common measure by which particulars are to be examined , and therefore must necessarily be general . so general , loose , and inconsistent , that no particulars can be examined by it : for again i challenge you , or any man living , to measure out any punishment by this your common measure , and establish it by a law. you go on ; and those to whom it is given , are supposed to be able to apply it , and to judg of particulars by it . nay it is often seen that they are better able to do this than those who give it : and so it is in the present case , the rule hereby laid down is that by which you suppose governors and law-givers ought to examine the penalties they use for the promoting the true religion , and the salvation of souls . such a rule it ought to be i grant , and such an one is desired : but that yours is such a rule as magistrates can take any measure by , for the punishments they are to settle by law , is denied , and you are again desired to shew . you proceed ; but certainly no man doubts but their prudence and experience inables them to use and apply it better than other men , and to judg more exactly what penalties do agree with it , and what do not ; and therefore you think i must excuse you if you do not take upon you to teach them what it becomes you rather to learn for them . if we are not to doubt but their prudence and experience inables magistrates to judg best what penalties are fit . you have indeed given us at last a way to know the measure of punishments to be used : but it is such an one as puts an end to your distinction of moderate penalties : for no magistrates that i know , when they once began to use force to bring men to their religion , ever stopp'd till they came to some of those severities you condemn ; and if you pretend to teach them moderation for the future , with hopes to succeed , you ought to have shewed them the just bounds , beyond which they ought not to go , in a model so wholly new , and besides all experience . but if it be to be determined by their prudence and experience , whatever degrees of force they shall use , will always be the right . law-makers and governors however are beholden to you for your good opinion of their prudence and experience ; yet have no reason to thank you for your complement , by giving such an exercise to their prudence and experience , as to put it upon them to find out the just measures of punishments , by rules you give them , which are such , that neither your self , nor any body else can find out any measures by . the other part of your complement will be suspected not to be so much out of your ab●…ndant respect to law-makers and governors , as out of the great regard you have to your self ; for you in vain pretend you forbear to name any particular punishments , because you will not take upon you to teach governors and law-makers , when you your self own in the same breath , that you are laying down rules by which they are to proceed in the use of penalties for promoting religion , which is little different from teaching : and your whole book is nothing else but about the magistrate's power and duty . i excuse you therefore for your own sake from naming any particular punishments by your rules : for you have a right to it , as all men have a right to be ex●…used from doing what is imposs●…ble to be done . since therefore you grant that those severities y●…u have named , are more apt to hinder than promote true religion ; and you cannot assign any measures of punishment ( short of those great ones you have condemned ) which are ●…it to promote it , i think it argument enough to prove against you , that no punishments are fit , till you have shewed some others , either by name , or such marks as they may certainly be known by , which are fit to promote the true religion : and therefore nothing you have said there , or any where else , will serve to shew that 't is with little reason , as you tell me , that i say , that if your indirect and at a distance serviceableness may authorize the magistrate to use force in religion , all the cruelties used by the heathens against christians , by papists against protestants , and all the persecuting of christians one amongst another , are all justifiable . to which you add , not to take notice at present how oddly it sounds , that that which authorizes the magistrates to use moderate penalties to promote the true religion , should justify all the cruelties that ever were used to promote heathenism or popery . as oddly as it sounds to you , it will be evidently true , as long as that which authorizes one , authorizes all magistrates of any religion , which they believe to be true , to use force to premote it ; and as long as you cannot assign any bounds to your moderate punishments , short of those great ones ; which you therefore are not able to do , because your principles , whatever your words deny , will carry you to those degrees of severity , which in profession you condemn : and this , whatever you do , i dare say every considering reader besides you will plainly see . so that this imputation is not so unreasonable , since it is evident , that you must either renounce all punishments whatsoever in religion , or make use of those you condemn : for in the next page you tell us , that all who have ●…fficient means of instruc●…ion provided for them , may justly be punished for not being of the national religion , where the true is the national religion ; because it is a fault in all such not to be of the national religi●… in england then , for example , not to be of the national 〈◊〉 is a fault , and a fault to be punished by the magistrate . the magistrate , to cure this fault , lays , on those who dissent , a lower degree of penalties , a fine of d. per month. this proving insufficient , what is the magistrate to do ? if he be obliged , as you say , to amend this fault by penalties , and that low one of d. per month be not sufficient to procure its amendment , is he not to increase the penalty ? he therefore doubles the fine to d. per month. this too proves ineffectual , and therefore 't is still for the same reason doubled , till it come to s. s. l. l. l. none of these penalties working , but yet by being constantly levied , leaving the delinquents no longer able to pay , imprisonment and other corporal punishments follow to inforce an obedience , till at last this gradual increase of penalties and force , each degree whereof wrought on some few , rises to the highest severities against those who stand out . for the magistrate , who is obliged to correct this vice , as you call it , and to do what in him lies to cure this fault , which opposes their salvation ; and who ( if i mistake not , you tell us ) is answerable for all that may follow from his neglect , had no reason to raise the fine from d. to d. but because the first was ineffectual : and if that were a sufficient reason for raising from the first to the second degree , why is it not as sufficient to proceed from the second to the third , and so gradually on ? i would fain have any one shew me , where , and upon what ground , such a gradual increase of force can stop , till it come to the utmost extremities . if therefore dissenting from the church of england be a fault to be punished by the magistrate , i desire you to tell me , where he shall hold his hand ; to name the sort or degree of punishment , beyond which he ought not to go in the use of force , to cure them of that fault , and bring them to conformity . till you have done that , you might have spared that paragraph , where you say , with what ingenuity i draw you in to condemn force in general , only because you acknowledg the ill effects of prosecuting men with fire and sword , &c. you may leave every man to judg . and i leave whom you will to judg , whether from your own principles it does not unavoidably follow , that if you condemn any penalties , you must condemn all , as i have shewn ; if you will retain any , you must retain all ; you must either take or leave all together . for , as i have said , and you deny not , ` where there ` is no fault , there no punishment is moderate , so i add , where there is a fault to be corrected by the magistrate's force , there no degree of force , which is ineffectual , and not sufficient to amend it , can be immoderate ; especially if it be a fault of great moment in its consequences , as certainly that must be , which draws after it the loss of mens eternal happiness . you will , 't is likely , be ready to say here again , ( for a good subterfuge is never to be forsaken ) that you except the desperately perverse and obstinate . i desire to know for what reason you except them ? is it because they cease to be faulty ? next i ask you , who are in your sense the desperately perverse and obstinate ? those that s. or s. or l. or l. or no fine will work upon ? those who can bear loss of estate , but not loss of liberty ? or loss of liberty and estate , but not corporal pains and torments ? or all this , but not loss of life ? for to these degrees do men differently stand out . and since there are men wrought on by the approaches of fire and faggot , which other degrees of severity could not prevail with , where will you bound your desperately perverse and obstinate ? the king of france , though you will allow him not to have truth of his side , yet when he came to dragooning , found sew so desperately perverse and obstinate , as not to be wrought on . and why should truth , which in your opinion wants force , and nothing but force , to help it , not have the assistance of those degrees of force , ( when less will not do to make it prevail ) which are able to bring men over to false religions , whi●…h have no light and strength of their own to help them ? you wi●…l do well therefore to consider whether your name of severities , in opposition to the moderate punishments you speak of , has or can do you any service ; whether the distinction between compelling and coactive power be of any use or difference at all . for you deny the magistrate to have power to compel : and you contend for his use of his coactive power ; which will then be a good distinction , when you can find a way to use coactive , or , which is the same , compelling power without compulsion . i desire you also to consider , if in matters of religion , punishments are to be imployed , because they may be useful , whether you can stop at any degree that is ineffectual to the end which you propose , let that end be what it will. if it be barely to gain a hearing , as in some places you seem to say , i think for that small punishments will generally prevail , and you do well to put that and moderate penalties together . if it be to make men consider , as in other places you speak , you cannot tell when you have obtained that end. but if your end be , which you seem most to insist on , to make men consider as they ought , i. e. till they imbrace , there are many on whom all your moderate penalties , all under those severities you condemn , are too weak to prevail . so that you must either consess , not considering so as to imbrace the true religion , i. e. not considering as one ought , is no fault to be punished by the coactive force of the magistrate ; or else you must resume those severities which you have renounced : chuse you whether of the two you please . therefore 't was not so much at random that i said , that thither at last persecution must come . indeed from what you had said of falling under the stroke of the sword , which was nothing to the purpose , i added , that is by that you meant any thing to the business in hand , you seem to have a reserve for greater punishments , when less are not sufficient to bring men to be convinced . which hath produced this warm reply of yours ; and will you ever pretend to conscience or modesty after this ? for i beseech you , sir , what words could i have used more express or effectual to signify , that in my opinion no dissenters from the true religion ought to be punished with the sword , but such as choose rather to rebel against the magistrate , than to submit to lesser penalties ? ( for how any should refuse to submit to those penalties , but by rebelling against the magistrate , i suppose you will not undertake to tell me . ) 't was for this very purpose that i used those words to prevent cavils , ( as i was then so simple as to think i might : ) and i dare appeal to any man of common sense and common honesty whether they are capable of any other meaning . and yet the very thing which i so plainly disclaim in them , you pretend ( without so much as offering to shew how ) to collect from them . thither , you say , at last , ( viz. to the taking away mens lives for the saving of their souls ) persecution must come : as you fear , notwithstanding m●… talk of moderate punishments , i my self intimate in those words : and if i mean any thing in them to the business in hand , i seem to have a reserve for greater punishments , when lesser are not sufficient to bring men to be convinced . sir , i should expect fairer dealing from one of your pagans or mahometans . but i shall only add , that i would never wish that any man who has undertaken a bad cause , should more plainly confess it than by serving it , as here ( and not here only ) you serve yours . good sir , be not so angry , lest to observing men you increase the suspicion . one may , without forfeiture of modesty or conscience , fear what mens principles threaten , though their words disclaim it . nonconformity to the national , when it is the true religion , as in england , is a fault , a vice , say you , to be corrected by the coactive power of the magistrate . if so , and force be the proper remedy , he must increase it , till it be strong enough to work the cure ; and must not neglect his duty ( for so you make it ) when he has force enough in his hand to make this remedy more powerful . for where-ever force is proper to work on men , and bring them to a compliance , it 's not producing that effect can only be imputed to its being too little : and if so , whither at last must it come , but to the late methods of procuring conformity ( and as his most christian majesty called it , of saving of souls ) in france , or severities like them , when more moderate ones cannot produce it ? for to continue inefficacious penalties , insufficient upon trial to master the fault they are applied to , is unjustifiable cruelty ; and that which no body can have a right to use , it serving only to disease and harm people , without amending them : for you tell us , they should be such penalties as should make them uneasy . he that should vex and pain a sore you had , with frequent dressing it with some moderate , painful , but inefficacious plaister , that promoted not the cure , would justly be thought , not only an ignorant , but a dishonest surgeon . if you are in the surgeon's hands , and his help is requisite , and the cure that way to be wrought , corrosives and fire are the most merciful , as well as only justifiable way of cure , when the case needs them . and therefore i hope i may still pretend to modesty and conscience , though i should have thought you so rational a man , as to be led by your own principles ; and so honest , charitable , and zealous for the salvation of mens souls , as not to vex and disease them with inefficacious remedies to no purpose , and let them miss of salvation , for want of more vigorous prosecutions . for if conformity to the church of england be necessary to salvation , ( for elfe what necessity can you pretend of punishing men at all to bring them to it ? ) it is cruelty to their souls ( if you have authority for any such means ) to use some , and not to use sufficient force to bring them to conform . and i dare say you are satsf●…d that the french discipline of dragooning would have made many in england conformists , whom your lower penalties will not prevail on to be so . but to inform you that my apprehensions were not so wholly out of the way , i beseech you to read here what you have writ in these words ; for how confidently soever you tell me here , that it is more than i can say for my political punishments , that they were ever useful for the promoting true religion ; i appeal to all observing persons , whether where-ever true religion or sound christianity has been nationally received and established by moderate penal laws , it has not always lost ground by the relaxation of those laws : whether sects and heresies , ( even the wildest and most absurd ) and even epicurism and atheism , have not continually thereupon spread themselves ; and whether the very spirit and life of christianity has not sensibly decayed , as well as the number of sound professors of it been daily lessened upon it : not to speak of what at this time our eyes cannot but see , for fear of giving offence ; though i hope it will be none to any that have a just concern for truth and piety , to take notice of the books and pamphlets which now fly so thick about this kingdom , manifestly tending to the multiplying of sects and divisions , and even to the promoting of scepticism in religion among us . here you bemoan the decaying state of religion amongst us at present , by reason of taking off the penalties from protestant dissenters : and i beseech you what penalties were they ? such whereby many have been ruined in their fortunes ; such whereby many have lost their liberties , and some their lives in prisons ; such as have sent some into banishment , stripp'd of all they had . these were the penal laws by which the national religion was establish'd in england ; and these you call moderate : for you say , where-ever true religion or sound christianity has been nationally received and established by moderate penal laws ; and i hope you do not here exclude england from having its religion so established by law , which we so often hear of ; or if to serve the present occasion , you should , would you also deny , that in the following words you speak of the present relaxation in england ? where after your appeal to all observing people for the dismal consequences , which you suppose to have every-where followed from such relaxations , you add these pathetical words , not to speak of what at this time our eyes cannot but see , for fear of giving offence : so heavy does the present relaxation sit on your mind ; which since it is of penal laws you call moderate , i shall shew you what they are . in the first year of q. elizabeth , there was a penalty of s. a sunday and holiday laid upon every one , who came not to the common prayer then established . this penalty of s. a time not prevailing , as was desired , in the twenty thi●…d year of her reign was increased to l. a month and imprisonment for non-payment within three months after judgment given . in the twenty ninth year of eliz. to draw this yet closer , and make it more sorcible , 't was enacted , that whoever upon one conviction did not continue to pay on the l. per month , without any other 〈◊〉 or proceedings against him till he submitted and conformed , should forf●…t all his goods , and two thirds of his land for his life . but this bein●… not yet thought sufficient , it was in the th year of that queen c●…mpleated , and the moderate penal laws upon which our national religion was established and whose relaxation you cannot bear , but from the●…ce date the decay of the very spirit and life of christianity , were brought to perfection : 〈◊〉 then going to conve 〈◊〉 , or a month's absence from church , was to be punished with imprisonment , till the offender 〈◊〉 , and i●… 〈◊〉 cn●…formed not within three months , then he was to abjure the realm , and forfeit all his goods and chattels for ever , and his lands and tenements during his life : and if ●…e would not abjure , or abjuring , did not depart the realm within a ti●…e 〈◊〉 , or returned again , he was to suffer death as a felon . and thus your moderate penal laws stood for the established religion , till their penalties were in respect of protestant dissenters , lately taken off . and now let the reader judg whether your pretence to moderate punishments , or my suspicion of what a man of your principles might have in store for dissenters , have more of modesty or conscience in it ; since you op●…nly de●…lare your regret for the taking away such an establishment , as by the gradual increase of penalties reached mens estates , liberties and lives ; and which you must be presumed to allow and approve of , till you tell us plainly , where , according to your measures , those penalties should ; or , according to your principles , they could have stopp'd . you tell us , that where this only true religion , viz. of the church of england , is received , other religions ought to be discouraged in some measure . a pretty expression for undoing , imprisonment , banishment , for those have been some of the discouragements given to dissenters here in england . you will again no doubt , cry aloud , that you tell me you condemn these as much as i do : if you heartily condemn them , i wonder you should say so little to discourage them ; i wonder you are so silent in representing to the magistrate the unlawfulness and danger of using them in a discourse where you are treating of the magistrate's power and duty in matters of religion : especially this being the side on which , as far as we may guess by experience , their prudence is aptest to err : but your modesty you know leaves all to the magistrate's prudence and experience on that side , though you over and over again incourage them not to neglect their duty in the use of force , to which you set no bounds . you tell us , certainly no man doubts but the prudence and experience of governors and law-givers inables them to use and apply it , viz. your rule for the measure of punishments , which i have shewed to be no rule at all ; and to judg more exactly what penalties do agree with it : and therefore you must be excused if you do not take upon you to teach them what it becomes you rather to learn from them . if your modesty be such , and you then did what became you , you could not but learn from your governors and law-givers , and so be satisfied till within this year or two , that those penalties which they measured out for the establishment of true religion , though they rea●…h'd to mens estates , liberties and lives , were such as were sit . but what you have learned of your law-makers and governors since the relaxation , or what opinion you have of their experience and prudence now , is not so easy to say . perhaps you will say again , that you have in express words declared against fire and sword , loss of estate , maiming with corporal punishments , starving and tormenting in noisom prisons ; and one cannot either in modesty or conscience disbelieve you : yet in the same letter you with sorrow and regret speak of the relaxation of such penalties laid on nonconformity , by which men have lost their estates , liberties and lives too in noisom prisons , and in this too must we not believe you ? i dare say there are very few who read that passage of yours , so feelingly it is pen'd , who want modesty or conscience to believe you therein to be in earnest ; and the rather , because what drops from men by chance , when they are not upon their guard , is always thought the best interpretation of their thoughts . you name loss of estate , of liberty , and tormenting , which is corporal punishment , as if you were against them : certainly you know what you meant by these words , when you said , you condemn'd them ; was it any degree of loss of liberty or estate , any degree of corporal punishment that you condemn'd , or only the utmost , or some degree between these ? unless you had then some meaning , and unless you please to tell us , what that meaning was ; where 't is , that in your opinion the magistrate ought to stop , who can believe you are in earnest ? this i think you may and ought to do for our information in your system , without any apprehension that governors and law-givers will deem themselves much taught by you , which your modesty makes you so cautious of . whilst you refuse to do this , and keep your self under the mask of moderate , convenient and sufficient force and penalties , and other such-like uncertain and undetermin'd punishments , i think a consciencious and sober dissenter might expect fairer dealing from one of my pagans or mahometans , as you please to call them , than from one , who so professes moderation , that what degrees of force , what kind of punishments will satisfy him , he either knows not , or will not declare . for your moderate and convenient may , when you come to interpret them , signify what punishments you please : for the cure being to be wrought by force , that will be convenient , which the stubbornness of the evil requires ; and that moderate , which is but enough to work the cure. and therefore i shall return your own complement , that i would never wish that any man who has undertaken a bad cause , should more plainly confess it than by serving it , as here ( and not here only ) you serve yours . i should beg your pardon for this sort of language were it not your own . and what right you have to it , the skill you shew in the management of general and doubtful words and expressions , of uncertain and undetermined signification , will , i doubt not , abundantly convince the reader . an instance we have in the argument before us : for i appeal to any sober man , who shall carefully read what you write , where you pretend to tell the world plainly and directly what punishments are to be used by your scheme , whether after having weighed all you say concerning that matter , he can tell , what a nonconformist is to expect from you , or find any thing but such acuteness and strength as lies in the uncertainty and reserve of your way of talking ; which whether it be any way suted to your modesty and conscience , where you have undertaken to tell us what the punishments are , whereby you would have men brought to imbrace the true religion , i leave you to consider . if having said , where-ever true religion or sound christianity has been nationally received and established by moderate penal laws ; you shall for your defence of the establishment of the religion in england by law , say , which is all is left you to say , that though such severe laws were made , yet it was only by the execution of moderate penal laws , that it was established and supported : but that those severe laws that touch'd mens estates , liberties and lives , were never put in execution . why then do you so s●…riously bemoan the loss of them ? but i advise you not to make use of that plea , for there are examples in the memory of hundreds now living , of every one of those laws of queen elizabeth being put in execution ; and pray remember , if by denying it you require this truth to be made good , 't is you that force the publishing of a catalogue of men that have lost their estates , liberties and lives in prison , which it would be more for the advantage of the religion established by law , should be forgotten . but to conclude this great accusation of yours : if you were not conscious to your self of some tendency that way , why such an out●…ry ? why was modesty and conscience call'd in question ? why was it less fair dealing than you could have expected from a pagan or mahometan , for me to say , if in those words you meant any thing to the business in hand , you seemed to have a reserve for greater punishments ? your business there being to prove , that there was a power vested in the magistrate to use force in matters of religion , what could be more besides the business in hand , than to tell us , as you interpret your meaning here , that the magistrate had a power to use force against those who rebell'd ( for who ever denied that ) whether 〈◊〉 or not dissenters ? where was it question'd by the author or me , that whoever rebell'd , were to fall under the stroak of the magistrate's sword ? and therefore without breach of modesty or conscience , i might say , what i again here repeat , that if in those words you meant any thing to the business in hand , you seemed to have a r●…serve for greater punishments . one thing more give me leave to add in defence of my modesty and conscience , or rather to justify my self from having guessed so wholly b●…side the matter , if i should have said , ( which i did not ) that i feared you had a reserve for greater punishments . for i having brought the instances of ananias and sapphira , to shew that the apostles wanted not power to punish , if they sound it necessary to use it ; you inser , that therefore punishment may be sometimes necessary . what punishments i beseech you , for theirs cost them their lives ? he that , as you do , concludes from thence , that therefore punishments may be sometimes necessary , will hardly avoid ( whatever he says ) to conclude capital punishments necessary : and when they are necessary , it is you know the magistrate's duty to use them . you see how natural it is for men to go whither their principles lead them , though at first sight perhaps they thought it too far . if to avoid this , you now say you meant it of the punishment of the incestuous corinthian , whom i also mentioned in the same place ; i think , supposing your self to lie under the imputation of a reserve of greater punishments ; you ought in prudence to have said so there . next you know not what punishment it was the incestuous corinthian under-went , but it being for the destruction of the flesh , it seems to be no very light one : and if you will take your friend st. austin's word for it , as he in the very epistle you quote tells you , it was a very severe one , making as much difference between it , and the severities men usually suffer in prison , as there is between the cruelty of the devil , and that of the most barbarous jaylor : so that if your moderate punishments will reach to that laid on the incestuous corinthian for the destruction of the flesh , we may presume them to be , what other people call severities . chap. v. how long your punishments are to continue . the measure of punishments being to be estimated as well by the length of their duration , as the intenseness of their degrees , 't is fit we take a view also of your scheme in this part. i told you that moderate punishments that are continued , that men find no end of , know no way out of , sit heavy , and become immoderately uneasy . dissenters you would have punished , to make them consider . your penalties have had the effect on them you intended ; they have made them consider ; and they have done their utmost in considering . what now must be done with them ? they must be punished on , for they are still dissenters . if it were just , and you had reason at first to punish a dissenter , to make him consider , when you did not know but that he had considered already ; it is as just , and you have as much reason to punish him on , even when he has performed what your punishment was designed for , and has considered , but yet remains a dissenter . for i may justly suppose , and you must grant , that a man may remain a dissenter after all the consideration your moderate penalties can bring him to ; when we see great punishments , even those severities you disown as too great , are not able to make men consider so far as to be convinced , and brought over to the national church . if your punishments may not be 〈◊〉 on men , to make them consider , who have or may have considered already , for ought you know ; then dissenters are never to be once punished , no more than any other sort of men. if dissenters are to be punished , to make them consider , whether they have considered or no ; then their punishments , though they do consider , must never cease as long as they are dissenters , which whether it be to punish them only to bring them to consider , let all men judg . this i am sure ; punishments in your method , must either never begin upon dissenters , or never cease . and so pretend moderation if you please , the punishments which your method requires , must be either very immoderate , or none at all . but to this you say nothing , only for the adjusting the length of your punishments , and therein vindicating the consistency and practicableness of your scheme , you tell us , that as long as men reject the true religion duly proposed to them , so long they offend and deserve punishment , and therefore it is but just that so long they should be left liable to it . you promised to answer to this question , amongst others , plainly and directly . the question is , how long they are to be punished ? and your answer is , it is but just that so long they should be liable to punishment . this extraordinary caution in speaking out , if it were not very natural to you , would be apt to make one suspect , it was accommodated more to some difficulties of your scheme , than to your promise of answering plainly and directly ; or possibly you thought , it would not agree to that character of moderation you assume , to own , that all the penal laws which were lately here in force , and whose relaxation you bemoan , should be constantly put in execution . but your moderation in this point comes too late . for as your charity , as you tell us in the next paragraph , requires that they be kept subject to penalties : so the watchful charity of others in this age hath found out ways to incourage informers , and put it out of the magistrate's moderation to stop the execution of the law against dissenters , if he should be inclined to it . we will therefore take it for granted , that if penal laws be made concerning religion , ( for more zeal usually animates them than others ) they will be put in execution : and indeed i have heard it argued to be very absurd , to make or continue laws , that are not constantly put in execution . and now to shew you how well your answer consists with other parts of your scheme , i shall need only to mind you , that if men must be punished as long as they reject the true religion , those who punish them , must be judges what is the true religion . but this objection , with some other , to which this p●…rt of your answer is obnoxious , having been made to you more at large elsewhere , i shall here omit , and proceed to other parts of your answer . you begin with your reason for the answer you afterwards give us in the words i last quoted : your reason runs thus ; for certainly nothing is more reasonable than that men should be subject to punishment as long as they continue to off●…nd . and as long as men reject the true religion tender'd them with sufficient evidence of the truth of it , so long 't is certain they offend . it is certainly very reasonable , that men should be subject to punishment from those they offend as long as they continue to offend : but it will not from hence follow , that those who offend god , are always subject to punishment from men. for if they be , why does not the magistrate punish envy , hatred , and malice , and all uncharitableness ? if you answer , because they are not capable of judicial proofs : i think i may say 't is as easy to prove a man guilty of envy , hatred or uncharitableness , as it is to prove him guilty of rejecting the true religion tender'd him with sufficient evidence of the truth of it . but if it be his duty to punish all offences against god , why does the magistrate never punish lying , which is an offence against god , and is an offence capable of being judicially proved ? it is plain therefore that it is not the sense of all mankind , that it is the magistrate's duty to punish all offences against god ; and where it is not his duty to use force , you will grant the magistrate is not to use it in matters of religion , because where it is necessary , it is his duty to use it ; but where it is not necessary , you your self say it is not lawful . it would be convenient therefore for you to reform your proposition from that loose generality it now is in , and then prove it before it can be allowed you to be to your purpose ; though it be never so true , that you know not a greater crime a man can be guilty of , than rejecting the true religion . you go on with your proof , that so long as men reject the true religion , &c. so long they offend , and consequently may justly be punished ; because , say you , it is impossible for any man , innocently to reject the true religion , so tender'd to him . for whoever rejects that religion so tender'd , does either apprehend and perceive the truth of it , or he does not . if he does , i know not what greater crime any man can be guilty of . if he does not perceive the truth of it , there is no account to be given of that , but either that he shuts his eyes against the evidence which is offer'd him , and will not at all consider it ; or that he does not consider it as he ought , viz. with such care as is requisite , and with a sincere desire to learn the truth ; either of which does manifestly involve him in guilt . to say here that a man who has the true religion proposed to him with sufficient evidence of its truth , may consider it as he ought , or do his utmost in considering , and yet not perceive the truth of it ; is neither more nor less , than to say , that sufficient evidence is not sufficient evidence . for what does any man mean by sufficient evidence , but such as will certainly win assent where-ever it is duly considered ? i shall not trouble my self here to examine when requisite care , duly considered , and such other words , which bring one back to the same place from whence one set out , are cast up , whether all this fine reasoning will amount to any thing , but begging what is in the question : but shall only tell you , that what you say here and in other places about sufficient evidence , is built upon this , that the evidence wherewith a man proposes the true religion , he may know to be such , as will not fail to gain the assent of whosoever does what lies in him in considering it . this is the supposition , without which all your talk of sufficient evidence will do you no service , try it where you will. but it is a supposition that is far enough from carrying with it sufficient evidence to make it be admitted without proof . whatever gains any man's assent , one may be sure had sufficient evidence in respect of that man : but that is far enough from proving it evidence sufficient to prevail on another , let him consider it as long and as much as he can . the tempers of mens minds ; the principles setled there by time and education , beyond the power of the man himself to alter them ; the different capacities of mens understandings ; and the strange ideas they are often silled with , are so various and uncertain , that it is impossible to find that evidence ( especially in things of a mixed disquisition , depending on so long a t●…ain of consequences , as some points of the true religion may ) which one can considently say will be sufficient for all men. ' ●…is demonstration that is the product of divided by , and yet i challenge you to find one man of a thousand , to whom you can tender this proposition with demonstrative or sufficient evidence to convince him of the truth of it in a dark room ; or ever to make this evidence appear to a man , that cannot write and read , so as to make him imbrace it as a truth , if another whom he hath more confidence in , tells him it is not so . all the demonstrative evidence the thing has , all the tender you can make of it , all the consideration he can imploy about it , will never be able to discover to him that evidence which small convince him it is true , unless you will at threescore and ten ( for that may be the case ) have him neglect his calling , go to school , and learn to write and read , and cast account , which he may never be able to attain to . you speak more than once of mens being brought to lay aside their prejudices to make them consider as they ought , and judg right of matters in religion ; and i grant without doing so they cannot : but it is impossible for force to make them do it , unless it could shew them , which are prejudices in their minds , and distinguish them from the truths there . who is there almost that has not prejudices , that he does not know to be so ; and what can force do in that case ? it can no more remove them , to make way for truth , than it can remove one truth to make way for another ; or rather remove an establish'd truth , or that which is look'd on as an unquestionable principle ( for so are often mens prejudices ) to make way for a truth not yet known , nor appearing to be one . 't is not every one knows , or can bring himself to des carte●… way of doubting , and strip his thoughts of all opinions , till he brings them to self-evident principles , and then upon them builds all his future tenents . do not think all the world , who are not of your church , abandon themselves to an utter carelesness of their future state. you cannot but allow there are many turks who sincerely seek truth , to whom yet you could never bring evidence sufficient to convince them of the truth of the christian religion , whilst they looked on it as a principle not to be question'd , that the alcoran was of divine revelation . this possibly you will tell me is a prejudice , and so it is ; but yet if this man shall tell you 't is no more a prejudice in him , than it is a prejudice in any one amongst christians , who having not examin'd it , lays it down as an unquestionable principle of his religion , that the scripture is the word of god ; what will you answer to him ? and yet it would shake a great many christians in their religion , if they should lay by that prejudice , and suspend their judgment of it , until they had made it out to themselves with evidence sufficient to convince one who is not prejudiced in favour of it ; and it would require more time , books , languages , learning and skill , than falls to most 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to establish them therein , if you will not allow them , in this so 〈◊〉 and fundamental a point , to rely on the learning , knowledg and judgment of some persons whom they have in reverence or admiration . this though you blame it as an ill way , yet you can allow in one of your own religion , even to that degree , that he may be ignorant of the grounds of his religion . and why then may you not allow it to a turk , not as a good way , or as having led him to the truth ; but as a way , as sit for him , as for one of your church to acquiesce in ; and as sit to exempt him from your force , as to exempt any one of your church from it ? to prevent your commenting on this , in which you have shewn so much dexterity , give me leave to tell you , that for all this i do not think all religions equally true or equally certain . but this , i say , is impossible for you , or me , or any man , to know , whether another has done his duty in examining the evidence on both sides , when he imbraces that side of the question , which we ( perhaps upon other views ) judg false : and therefore we can have no right to punish or persecute him for it . in this , whether and how far any one is faulty , must be left to the searcher of hearts ? the great and righteous judg of all men , who knows all their circumstances , all the powers and workings of their minds ; where 't is they sincerely follow , and by what default they at any time miss truth : and he , we are sure , will judg uprightly . but when one man shall think himself a competent judg , that the true religion is proposed with evidence sufficient for another ; and thence shall take upon him to punish him as an offender , because he imbraces not ( upon evidence that he the proposer judges sufficient ) the religion that he judges true , had need be able to look into the thoughts of men , and know their several abilities : unless he will make his own understanding and faculties to be the measure of those of all mankind , which if they be no higher elevated , no larger in their comprehension , no more discerning , than those of some men , he will not only be unsit to be a judg in that , but in almost any case what soever . but since , . you make it a condition to the making a man an offender in not being of the true religion , that it has been tendred him with sufficient evidence . . since you think it so easy for men to determine when the true religion has been tender'd to any one with sufficient evidence . and , . since you pronounce it impiety to say , that god hath not furnished mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . give me leave to ask you a question or two . . can any one be saved without imbracing the one only true religion ? . were any of the americans of that one only true religion , when the europeans first came amongst them ? . whether any of the americans , before the christians came amongst them , had offended in rejecting the true religion tendred with sufficient evidence ? when you have thought upon , and fairly answered these questions , you will be sitter to determine , how competent a judg man is , what is sufficient evidence ; who do offend in not being of the true religion ; and what punishments they are liable to for it . but me-thinks here , where you spend almost a whole page upon the crime of rejecting the true religion duly tendred , and the punishment that is justly due to it from the magistrate , you forget your self , and the foundation of your plea for force ; which is , that it is necessary : which you are so far from proving it to be in this case of punishing the offence of rejecting the true religion , that in this very page you distinguished it from what is necessary ; where you tell us , your design does rather oblige you to consider how long men may need punishment , than how long it may be just to punish them . so that though they offend , yet if they do not need punishment , the magistrate cannot use it , if you ground , as you say you do , the lawfulness of force for promoting the true religion upon the necessity of it . nor can you say , that by his commission , from the law of nature , of doing good , the magistrate , besides reducing his wandring subjects out of the wrong into the right way , is appointed also to be the avenger of god's wrath on unbelievers , or those that err in matters of religion . this at least you thought not fit to own in the first draught of your scheme ; for i do not remember in all your argument considered , one word of crime or punishment : nay , in writing this second treatise , you were so shy of owning any thing of punishment , that to my remembrance , you scrupulously avoided the use of that word , till you came to this place ; and always where the repeating my words did not oblige you to it , carefully used the term of penalties for it , as any one may observe , who reads the preceding part of this letter of yours , which i am now examining . and you were so nice in the point , that three or four leaves backwards , where i say , by your rule dissenters must be punished , you mend it , and say , or if i please , subjected to moderate penalties . but here when the inquiry , how long force was to be continued on men , shewed the absurdity of that pretence , that they were to be punished on without end , to make them consider ; rather than part with your beloved force , you open the matter a little father , and profess directly the punishing men for their religion . for tho you do all you can to cover it under the name of rejecting the true religion duly proposed ; yet it is in truth no more but being of a religion different from yours , that you would have them punished for : for all that the author pleads for , and you can oppose in writing against him , is toleration of religion . your scheme therefore being thus mended , your hypothesis enlarged , being of a different religion from the national found criminal , and punishments found justly to belong to it , it is to be hoped , that in good time your punishments may grow too , and be advanced to all those degrees you in the beginning condemned ; when having considered a little farther , you cannot miss finding , that the obstinacy of the criminals does not lessen their crime , and therefore justice will require severer execution to be done upon them . but you tell us here , because your design does rather oblige you to consider how long men may need punishment , than how long it may be just to punish them ; therefore you shall add , that as long as men refuse to imbrace the true religion , so long penalties are necessary for them to dispose them to consider and imbrace it : and that therefore as justice allows , so charity requires , that they be kept subject to penalties , till they imbrace the true religion . let us therefore see the consistency of this with other parts of your hypothesis , and examine it a little by them . your doctrine is , that where intreaties and admonitions upon trial do not prevail , punishments are to be used ; but they must be moderate . moderate punishments have been tried , and they prevail not ; what now is to be done ? are not greater to be used ? no : for what reason ? because those whom moderate penalties will not prevail on , being desperately perverse and obstinate , remedies are not to be provided for the incurable , as you tell us in the page immediately preceding . moderate punishments have been tried upon a man once , and again , and a third time , but prevail not at all , make no impression ; they are repeated as many times more , but are still found ineffectual : pray tell me a reason why such a man is concluded so desperately perverse and obstinate , that greater degrees will not work upon him , but yet not so desperately perverse and obstinate , but that the same degrees repeated may work upon him ? i will not urge here , that this is to pretend to know the just degree of punishment that will or will not work on any one , which i should imagine a pretty intricate business : but this i have to say , that if you can think it reasonable and useful to continue a man several years , nay his whole life , under the same repeated punishments , without going any higher , though they work not at all ; because 't is possible sometime or other they may work on him ; why is it not as reasonable and useful ( i am sure it is much more justifiable and charitable ) to leave him all his life under the means , which all agree god has appointed , without going any higher , because 't is not impossible that some time or other preaching , and a word spoken in due season , may work upon him ? for why you should despair of the success of preaching and perswasion upon a fruitless trial , and thereupon think your self authorized to use force ; and yet not so despair of the success of moderate force , as after years of fruitless trial , to continue it on , and not to proceed to higher degrees of punishment , you are concerned for the vindication of your system to shew a reason . i mention the trial of preaching and perswasion , to shew the unreasonableness of your hypothesis , supposing such a trial made : not that in yours , or the common method , there is or can be a fair trial made what preaching and perswasion can do . for care is taken by punishments and ill treatment , to indispose and turn away mens minds , and to add aversion to their scruples ; an excellent way to soften mens inclinations , and temper them for the impression of arguments and intreaties ; though these too are only talked of : for i cannot but wonder to find you mention , as you do , giving ear to admonitions , intreaties and perswasions , when these are seldom , if ever made use of , but in places , where those , who are to be wrought on by them , are known to be out of hearing ; nor can be expected to come there , till by such means they have been wrought on . 't is not without reason therefore you cannot part with your penalties , and would have no end put to your punishments , but continue them on ; since you leave so much to their operation , and make so little use of other means to work upon dissenters . chap. vi. of the end for which force is to be used . he that should read the beginning of your argument considered , would think it in earnest to be your design to have force employed to make men seriously consider , and nothing else : but he that shall look a little farther into it , and to that add also your defence of it , will find by the variety of ends you design your force for , that either you know not well what you would have it for , or else , whatever 't was you aimed at , you called it still by that name which best fitted the occasision , and would serve best in that place to recommend the use of it . you ask me , whether the mildness and gentleness of the gospel destroys the coactive power of the magistrate ? i answer , as you supposed , no : upon which you infer , then it seems the magistrate may use his coactive power , without offending against the mildness and gentleness of the gospel . yes , where he has commission and authority to use it . and so , say you , it will consist well enough with the mildness and gentleness of the gospel for the magistrate to use his coactive power to procure them [ i suppose you mean the ministers and preachers of the national religion ] a hearing where their prayers and intreaties will not do it . no , it will not consist with the gentle and mild method of the gospel , unless the gospel has directed it , or something else to supply its want , till it could be had . as for miracles , which you pretend to have supplied the want of force in the first ages of christianity , you will find that considered in another place . but , sir , shew me a country where the ministers and teachers of the national and true religion go about with prayers and intreaties to procure a hearing , and cannot obtain it , and there i think i need not stand with you for the magistrate to use force to procure it them ; but that i fear will not serve your turn . to shew the inconsistency and unpracticableness of your method , i had said , let us now see to what end they must be punished : sometimes it is , to bring them to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them : of what ? that it is not easy to set grant●…ani steeple upon paul's church ? whatever it be you would have them convinced of , you are not willing to tell us ; and so it may be any thing . sometimes it is , to incline them to lend an ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right . which is , to lend an ear to all who differ from them in religion , as well crafty seducers , as others . whether this be for the procuring the salvation of their souls , the end for which you say this force is to be used , judg you . but this i am sure , whoever will lend an ear to all who will tell them they are out of the way , will not have much time for any other business . sometimes it is , to recover men to so much sobriety and reflection , as seriously to put the question to themselves , whether it be really worth their while to undergo such inconveniences , for adhering to a religion which , for any thing they know , may be false ; or for rejecting another ( if that be the case ) which , for ought they know , may be true , till they have brought it to the bar of reason , and given it a fair trial there . which in short amounts to thus much , viz. to make them examine whether their religion be true , and so worth the holding , under those penalties that are annexed to it . dissenters are indebted to you for your great care of their souls . but what , i beseech you , shall become of those of the national church , every where ( which make far the greater part of mankind ) who have no such punishments to make them consider ; who have not this only remedy provided for them , but are left in that deplorable condition , you mention , of being suffered quietly , and without molestation , to take no care at all of their souls , or in doing of it to follow their own prejudices , humours , or some crafty seducers ? need not those of the national church , as well as others , bring their religion to the bar of reason , and give it a fair trial there ? and if they need to do so , ( as they must , if all national religions cannot be supposed true ) they will always need that which you say is the only means to make them do so . so that if you are sure , as you tell us , that there is need of your method ; i am sure , there is as much need of it in national churches , as any other . and so , for ought i can see , you must either punish them , or let others alone ; unless you think it reasonable that the far greater part of mankind should constantly be without that soveraign and only remedy , which they stand in need of equally with other people . sometimes the end for which men must be punished is , to dispose them to submit to instruction , and to give a fair hearing to the reasons are offer'd for the inlightning their minds , and discovering the truth to them . if their own words may be taken for it , there are as few dissenters as conformists , in any country , who will not profess they have done , and do this . and if their own words may not be taken ; who , i pray must be judg ? you and your magistrates ? if so , then it is plain you punish them not to dispose them to submit to instruction , but to your instruction ; not to dispose them to give a fair hearing to reasons offer'd for the inlightning their minds , but to give an obedient hearing to your reasons . if you mean this , it had been fairer and shorter to have spoken out plainly , than thus in fair words , of indefinite signification , to say that which amounts to nothing . for what sense is it , to punish a man to dispose him to submit to instruction , and give a fair hearing to reasons offer'd for the inlightning his mind , and discovering truth to him , who goes two or three times a week several miles on purpose to do it , and that with the hazard of his liberty or purse ; unless you mean your instructions , your reasons , your truth ? which brings us but back to what you have disclaimed , plain persecution for differing in religion . sometimes this is to be done , to prevail with men to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially . discountenance and punishment put into one scale , with impunity and hopes of preferment put into the other , is as sure a way to make a man weigh impartially , as it would be for a prince to bribe and threaten a judg to make him judg uprightly . sometimes it is , to make men bethink themselves , and put it out of the power of any foolish humour , or unreasonable prejudice , to alienate them from truth and their own happiness . add but this , to put it out of the power of any humour or prejudice of their own , or other mens ; and i grant the end is good , if you can find the means to procure it . but why it should not be put out of the power of other mens humour or prejudice , as well as their own , wants ( and will always want ) a reason to prove . would it not , i beseech you , to an indifferent by-stander , appear humour or prejudice , or something as bad ; to see men , who profess a religion reveal'd from heaven , and which they own contains all in it necessary to salvation , exclude men from their communion , and persecute them with the penalties of the civil law , for not joining in the use of ceremonies which are no where to be found in that reveal'd religion ? would it not appear humour or prejudice , or some such thing , to a sober impartial heathen ; to see christians exclude and persecute one of the same faith , for things which they themselves confess to be indifferent , and not worth the contending for ? prejudice , humour , passion , lusts , impressions of education , reverence and admiration of persons , worldly respects , love of their own choice , and the like , ( to which you justly impute many mens taking up and persisting in their religion ) are indeed good words ; and so , on the other side , are these following , truth , the right way , inlightning , reason , sound judgment ; but they signify nothing at all to your purpose , till you can evidently and unquestionably shew the world that the latter ( viz. truth and the right way , &c. ) are always , and in all countries , to be found only in the national church ; and the former ( viz. passion and prejudice , &c. ) only amongst the dissenters . but to go on : sometimes it is , to bring men to take such care as they ought of their salvation . what care is such as men ought to take , whilst they are out of your church , will be hard for you to tell me . but you indeavour to explain your self , in the following words ; that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other person , nor yet of their own 〈◊〉 and passions , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imb●…ce . you do well to make use of punishment to shut passion out of the choice ; because you know fear of suffering is no passion . but let that pass . you would have men punished , to bring them to take such care of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any other person to prescribe to them . are you sincere ? are you in earnest ? tell me then truly : did the magistrate or the national church , any where , or yours in particular , ever punish any man , to bring him to have this care , which you say , he ought to take of his salvation ? did you ever punish any man , that he might not blindly leave it to the choice of his parish-priest , or bishop , or the convocation , what faith or worship he should imbrace ? 't will be suspected care of a party , or any thing else rather than care of the salvation of mens souls ; if , having found out so useful , so necessary a remedy , the only method there is room left for , you will apply it but partially , and make trial of it only on those who you have truly least kindness for . this will , unavoidably , give one reason to imagine , you do not think so well of your remedy as you pretend , who are so sparing of it to your friends ; but are very free of it to strangers , who in other things are used very much like enemies . but your remedy is like the helleboraster , that grew in the woman's garden , for the cure of worms in her neighbours children : for truly it wrought too roughly , to give it to any of her own . methinks your charity , in your present persecution , is much-what as prudent , as justifiable , as that good woman's . i hope i have done you no injury , that i here suppose you of the church of england : if i have , i beg your pardon . it is no offence of malice , i assure you : for i suppose no worse of you , than i confess of my self . sometimes this punishment that you contend for , is , to bring men to act according to reason and sound judgment . tertius è coelo cecidit cato . this is reformation indeed . if you can help us to it , you will deserve statues to be erected to you , as to the restorer of decay'd religion . but if all men have not reason and sound judgment , will punishment put it into them ? besides , concerning this matter mankind is so divided , that he acts according to reason and sound judgment at auspurg , who would be judged to do the quite contrary at edinburgh . will punishment make men know what is reason and sound judgment ? if it will not , 't is impossible it should make them act according to it . reason and sound judgment are the elixir it self , the universal remedy : and you may as reasonably punish men to bring them to have the philosopher's stone , as to bring them , to act according to reason and sound judgment . sometimes it is , to put men upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them , which is the way sor them to come to the knowledg of the truth . but what if the truth be on neither side ( as i am apt to imagine you will think it is not , where neither the magistrate nor the dissenter is either of them of your church ) how will the examining the controversy between the magistrate and him be the way to come to the knowledg of the truth ? suppose the controversy between a lutheran and a papist ; or , if you please , between a presbyterian magistrate and a quaker subject . will the examining the controversy between the magistrate and the dissenting subject , in this case , bring him to the knowledg of the truth ? if you say , yes , then you grant one of these to have the truth on his side . for the examining the controversy between a presbyterian and a quaker , leaves the controversy either of them has with the church of england , or any other church , untouched . and so one , at least , of those being already come to the knowledg of the truth , ought not to be put under your discipline of punishment ; which is only to bring him to the truth . if you say , no , and that the examining the controversy between the magistrate and the dissenter , in this case , will not bring him to the knowledg of the truth ; you consess your rule to be false , and your method to no purpose . to conclude , your system is , in short , this . you would have all men ( laying aside prejudice , humour , passion , &c. ) examine the grounds of their religion , and search for the truth . this , i consess , is heartily to be wish'd . the means that you propose to make men do this , is , that dissenters should be punished , to make them do so . it is as if you had said , men generally are guilty of a fault ; therefore let one sect , who have the ill luck to be of an opinion different from the magistrate , be punished . this at first sight shocks any one who has the least spark of sense , reason , or justice . but having spoken of this already , and concluding that upon second thoughts , you your self will be ashamed of it ; let us consider it put so as to be consistent with common sense , and with all the advantage it can bear ; and then let us see what you can make of it . men are negligent in examining the religions they imbrace , refuse , or persist in ; therefore it is fit they should be punished to make them do it . this is a consequence indeed which may , without defiance to common sense , be drawn from it . this is the use , the only use , which you think punishment can indirectly and at a distance have in matters of religion . you would have men by punishments driven to examine . what ? religion . to what end ? to bring them to the knowledg of the truth . but i answer . first , every one has not the ability to do this . secondly , every one has not the opportunity to do it . would you have every poor protestant , for example , in the palatinate , examine throughly whether the pope be infallible , or head of the church ; whether there be a purgatory ; whether saints are to be pray'd to , or the dead pray'd for ; whether the scripture be the only rule of faith ; whether there be no salvation out of the church ; and whether there be no church without bishops ; and an hundred other questions in controversy between the papists and those protestants : and when he had master'd these , go on to fortify himself against the opinions and objections of other churches he differs from ? this , which is no small task , must be done , before a man can have brought his religion to the bar of reason , and given it fair trial there . and if you will punish men till this be done , the country-man must leave off plowing and sowing , and betake himself to the study of greek and latin ; and the artisan must sell his tools , to buy fathers and school-men , and leave his family to starve . if something less than this will satisfy you , pray tell me what is enough . have they considered and examined enough , if they are satisfied themselves where the truth lies ? if this be the limits of their examination , you will find few to punish ; unless you will punish them to make them do what they have done already . for , however he came by his religion , there is scarce any one to be found who does not own himself satisfied that he is in the right . or else , must they be punished to make them consider and examine till they imbrace that which you chuse for truth ? if this be so , what do you but in effect chuse for them , when yet you would have men punished , to bring them to such a care of their souls that no other person might chuse for them ? if it be truth in general you would have them by punishments driven to seek ; that is to offer matter of dispute , and not a rule of discipline . for to punish any one to make him seek till he find truth , without a judg of truth , is to punish for you know not what ; and is all one as if you should whip a scholar to make him find out the square root of a number you do not know . i wonder not therefore that you could not resolve with your self what degree of severity you would have used , nor how long continued ; when you dare not speak out directly whom you would have punished , and are far from being clear to what end they should be under penalties . consonant to this uncertainty , of whom , or what , to be punished ; you tell us , that there is no question of the success of this method . force will certainly do , if duly proportioned to the design of it . what , i pray , is the design of it ? i challenge you , or any man living , out of what you have said in your book , to tell me directly what it is . in all other punishments that ever i heard of yet , till now that you have taught the world a new method , the design of them has been to cure the crime they are denounced against ; and so i think it ought to be here . what i beseech you is the crime here ? dissenting ? that you say not , any where , is a fault . besides you tell us , that the magistrate hath not an authority to compel any one to his religion : and that you do not require that men should have no rule but the religion of the country . and the power you ascribe to the magistrate is given him to bring men , not to his own , but to the true religion . if dissenting be not the fault ; is it that a man does not examine his own religion , and the grounds of it ? is that the crime your punishments are designed to cure ? neither that dare you say , lest you displease more than you satisfy with your new discipline . and then again , ( as i said before ) you must tell us how far you would have them examine , before you punish them for not doing it . and i imagine , if that were all we required of you , it would be long enough before you would trouble us with a law , that should prescribe to every one how far he was to examine matters of religion ; wherein if he fail'd and came short , he was to be punished ; if he perform'd and went in his examination to the bounds set by the law , he was acquitted and free . sir , when you consider it again , you will perhaps think this a case reserv'd to the great day , when the secrets of all hearts shall be laid open . for i imagine it is beyond the power or judgment of man , in that variety of circumstances , in respect of parts , tempers , opportunities , helps , &c. men are in , in this world , to determine what is every one's duty in this great business of search , inquiry , examination , or to know when any one has done it . that which makes me believe you will be of this mind , is , that where you undertake for the success of this method , if rightly used , it is with a limitation , upon such as are not altogether incurable . so that when your remedy is prepared according to art , ( which art is yet unknown ) and rightly apply'd , and given in a due dose , ( all which are secrets ) it will then infallibly cure . whom ? all that are not incurable by it . and so will a pippin-posset , eating fish in lent , or a presbyterian lecture , certainly cure all that are not incurable by them . for i am sure you do not mean it will cure all , but those who are absolutely incurable ; because you your self allow one means left of cure , when yours will not do , viz. the grace of god. your words are , what means is there left ( except the grace of god ) to reduce them , but to l●…y thorns and briars in their way . and here also , in the place we were considering , you tell us , the incurable are to be lest to god. whereby , if you mean they are to be left to those means he has ordained for mens conversion and salvation , yours must never be made use of : for he indeed has prescribed preaching and hearing of his word ; but as for those who will not hear , i do not find any where that he has commanded they should be compell'd or beaten to it . i must beg my reader 's pardon sor so long a repetition , which i was forced to , that he might be judg whether what i there said , either deserves no answer , or be fully answered in that paragraph , where you undertake to vindicate your method from all impracticableness and inconsistency chargeable upon it , in reference to the end for which you would have men punished . your words are . for what . by which , you say , you perceive i mean ●…vo things : for sometimes i speak of the fault , and sometimes of the end for which men are to be punished , ( and sometimes i plainly confound them . ) now if it be inquired , for what fault men are to be punished ? you answer , for rejecting the true religion after sufficient evidence tender'd them of the truth of it : which certainly is a fault , and deserves punishment . but if i inquire for what end such as do reject the true religion , are to be punished ; you say , to bring them to imbrace the true religion ; and in order to that to bring them to consider , and that carefully and impartially , the evidence which is offered to convince them of the truth of it : which are undeniably just and excellent ends ; and which , through god's blessing , have often been procured , and may yet be procured by convenient penalties inflicted for that purpose . nor do you know of any thing i say against any part of this , which is not already answered . whether i in this confound two things distinct , or you distinguish where there is no difference , the reader may judg by what i have said elsewhere . i shall here only consider the ends of punishing , you here again in your reply to me assign ; and those , as i find them scattered , are these . sometimes you speak of this end , as if it were barely to gain a hearing to those who by prayers and intreaty cannot : and those may be the preachers of any religion . but i suppose you mean the preachers of the true religion . and who i beseech you must be judg of that ? where the law provides sufficient means of instruction for all , as well as punishment for dissenters , it is plain to all concerned , that the punishment is intended to make them consider . what ? the means the law provides for their instruction . who then is judg of what they are to be instructed in , and the means of instruction ; but the law-maker ? it is to bring men to hearken to instruction . from whom ? from any body ? and to consider and examine matters of religion as they ought to do , and to bring those who are out of the right way , to hear , consider and imbrace the truth . when is this end attained , and the penalties which are the means to this end taken off ? when a man conforms to the national church . and who then is judg of what is the truth to be imbraced , but the magistrate ? it is to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them ; but which , without being forced , they would not consider . and when have they done this ? when they have once conformed : for after that there is no force used to make them consider farther . it is to make men consider as they ought ; and that you tell us , is so to consider , as to be moved heartily to imbrace , and not to reject truth necessary to salvation . and when is the magistrate , that has the care of mens souls , and does all this for their salvation , satisfied that they have so considered ? as soon as they outwardly join in communion with the national church . it is to bring men to consider and examine those controversies which they are bound to consider and examine , i. e. those wherein they cannot err without dishonouring god , and indangering their own and other mens salvations . and to study the true religion with such care and diligence as they might and ought to use , and with an honest mind . and when , in your opinion , is it presumable that any man has done all this ? even when he is in the communion of your church . it is to cure mens unreasonable prejudices and refractoriness against , and aversion to the true religion . whereof none retain the least tincture or suspicion who are once got within the pale of your church . it is to bring men into the right way , into the way of salvation , which force does when it has conducted them within the church-porch , and there leaves them . it is to bring men to imbrace the truth that must save them . and here , in the paragraph wherein you pretend to tell us for what force is to be used , you say , it is to bring men to imbrace the true religion , and in order to that to bring them to consider , and that carefully and impartially , the evidence which is offered to convince them of the truth of it , which , as you say , are undeniable , just and excellent ends ; but yet such as force in your method can never practically be made a means to , without supposing what you say you have no need to suppose , viz. that your religion is the true ; unless you had rather every where to leave it to the magistrate to judg which is the right way , what is the true religion ; which supposition i imagine will less accommodate you than the other . but take which of them you will , you must add this other supposition to it , harder to be granted you than either of the former , viz. that those who conform to your church here , ( if you make your self the judg ) or to the national church any where , ( if you make the magistrate judg of the truth that must save men ) and those only have attained these ends. the magistrate , you say , is obliged to do what in him lies to bring all his subjects to examine carefully and impartially matters of religion , and to consider them as they ought , i. e. so as to imbroce the truth that must save them . the proper and necessary means , you say , to attain these ends is force . and your method of using this force is to punish all the dissenters from the national religion , and none of those who outwardly conform to it . make this practicable now in any country in the world , without allowing the magistrate to be judg what is the truth that must save them , and without supposing also , that whoever do imbrace the outward profession of the national religion , do in their hearts imbrace , i. e. believe and obey the truth that must save them ; and then i think nothing in government can be too hard for your undertaking . you conclude this paragraph in telling me , you do not know of any thing i say against any part of this , which is not already answered . pray tell me where 't is you have answered those objections i made to those several ends which you assigned in your argument considered , and for which you would have force used , and which i have here reprinted again , because i do not find you so much as take notice of them : and therefore the reader must judg whether they needed any answer or no. but to shew that you have not here , where you promise and pretend to do it , clearly and directly told us for what force and penalties are to be used , i shall in the next chapter examine what you mean by bringing men to imbrace the true religion . chap. vii . of your bringing men to the true religion . true religion is on all hands acknowledged to be so much the concern and interest of all mankind , that nothing can be named , which so much effectually bespeak●… the approbation and favour of the publick . the very intitling one's self to that , sets a man on the right side . who dares question such a cause , or oppose what is offered for the promoting the true religion ? this advantage you have secured to your self from unattentive readers , as much as by the often-repeated mention of the true religion , is possible , there being scarce a page wherein the true religion does not appear , as if you had nothing else in your thoughts , but the bringing men to it for the salvation of their souls . whether it be so in earnest , we will now see . you tell us , whatever hardships some false religions may impose , it will however always be easier to carnal and worldly minded men , to give even the first-born for their transgressions , than to mortify the lusts from which they spring , which no religion but the true requires of them . upon this you ground the ne●…essity of force to bring men to the true religion , and charge it on the magistrate as his duty to use it to that end. what now in appearance can express greater care to bring men to the true religion ? but let us see what you say in p. . and we shall sind that in your scheme nothing less is meant : there you tell us , the magistrate inflicts the penalties only upon them that break the law●… and that law requiring nothing but conformity to the national religion , no●… but nonconformists are punished . so that unless an outward profession of the national religion be by the mortification of mens lusts harder than their giving their first-born for their transgression , all the penalties you contend sor concern not , ●…nor can be intended to bring men effectually to the true religion ; since they leave them before they come to the difficulty , which is to mortify their lusts , as the true religion requires . so that your bringing men to the true religion , being to bring them to conformity to the national , for then you have done with force , how far that outward consormity is from being heartily of the true religion , may be known by the distance there is between the easiest and the hardest thing in the world. for there is nothing easier , than to profess in words ; nothing harder , than to subdue the heart , and bring thoughts and deeds into obedience of the truth : the latter is what is required to be of the true religion ; the other all that is required by penalties your way applied . if you say , conformists to the national religion are required by the law civil and ecclesiastical , to lead good lives , which is the difficult part of the true religion : i answer , these are not the laws we are here speaking of , nor those which the defenders of toleration complain of , but the laws that put a distinction between outward conformists and nonconformists : and those they say , whatever may be talked of the true religion , can never be meant to bring men really to the true religion , as long as the true religion is , and is confessed to be a thing of so much greater difficulty than outward conformity . miracles , say you , supplied the want of force in the beginning of christianity ; and therefore so far as they supplied that want , they must be subservient to the same end. the end then was to bring men into the christian church , into which they were admitted and received as brethren , when they acknowledged that jesus was the christ , the son of god. will that serve the turn ? no : force must be used to make men imbrace creeds and ceremonies , i. e. outwardly conform to the doctrine and worship of your church . nothing more than that is required by your penalties ; nothing less than that will excuse from punishment ; that , and nothing but that , will serve the turn ; that therefore , and only that , is what you mean by the true religion you would have force used to bring men to . when i tell you , you have a very ill opinion of the religion on of the church of england , and must own it can only be propagated and supported by force , if you do not think it would be a gainer by a general toleration all the world over : you ask , why you may not have as good an opinion of the church of england's , as you have of noah's religion , notwithstanding you think it cannot now be propagated or supported without using some kinds or degrees of force . when you have proved that noah's religion , that from eight persons spread and continued in the world till the apostles times , as i have proved in another place , was propagated and supported all that while by your kinds or degrees of force , you may have some reason to think as well of the religion of the church of england , as you have of noah's religion , though you think it cannot be propagated and supported without some kinds or degrees of force . but till you can prove that , you cannot upon that ground say you have reason to have so good an opinion of it . you tell me , if i will take your word for it , you assure me you think there are many other countries in the world besides england , where my toleration would be as little useful to truth as in england . if you will name those countries , which will be no great pains , i will take your word for it , that you believe toleration there would be prejudicial to truth : but if you will not do that , neither i nor any body else can believe you . i will give you a reason why i say so , and that is , because no body can believe that , upon your principles , you can allow any national religion , differing from that of the church of england , to be true ; and where the national reli●…ion is not true , we have already your consent , as in spain and italy , &c. for toleration . now that you cannot , without renouncing your own principles , allow any national religion , differing from that establish'd here by law , to be true , is evident : for why do you punish nonconformists here ? to bring them , say you , to the true religion . but what if they hold nothing , but what that other differing national church does , shall they be nevertheless punished if they conform not ? you will certainly say , yes : and if so , then you must either say , they are not of the true religion , or else you must own you punish those , to bring them to the true religion , whom you allow to be of the true religion already . you tell me , if i own with our author , that there is but one true religion , and i owning my self to be of the church of england , you cannot see how i can avoid supposing , that the national religion now in england , back'd by the publick authority of the law , is the only true religion . if i own , as i do , all that you here expect from me , yet it will not serve to draw that conclusion from it , which you do , viz. that the national religion now in england is the only true religion ; taking the true religion in the sense that i do , and you ought to take it . i grant that there is but one true religion in the world , which is that whose doctrine and worship are necessary to salvation . i grant too that the true religion , necessary to salvation , is taught and professed in the church of england : and yet it will not follow from hence , that the religion of the church of england , as established by law , is the only true religion ; if there be any thing established in the church of england by law , and made part of its religion , which is not necessary to salvation , and which any other church , teaching and professing all that is necessary to salvation , does not receive . if the national religion now in england , back'd by the authority of the law , be , as you would have it , the only true religion ; so the only true religion , that a man cannot be saved without being of it . pray reconcile this , with what you say in the immediately preceding paragraph , viz. that there are many other countries in the world where my toleration would be as little useful as in england . for if there be other national religions differing from that of england , which you allow to be true , and wherein men may be saved , the national religion of england , as now established by law , is not the only true religion , and men may be saved without being of it . and then the magistrate can upon your principles have no authority to use force to bring men to be of it . for you tell us , force is not lawful , unless it be necessary ; and therefore the magistrate can never lawfully use it , but to bring men to believe and practise what is necessary to salvation . you must therefore either hold , that there is nothing in the doctrine , discipline and ceremonies of the church of england , as it is established by law , but what is necessary to salvation : or else you must reform your terms of communion , before the magistrate upon your principles can use penalties to make men consider till they conform ; or you can say that the national religion of england is the only true religion , though it contain the only true religion in it ; as possibly most , if not all , the differing christian churches now in the world do . you tell us farther in the next paragraph , that where-ever this only true religion , i. e. the national religion now in england , is received , all other religions ought to be discouraged . why i beseech you discourag'd , if they be true any of them ? for if they be true , what pretence is there for force to bring men who are of them to the true religion ? if you say all other religions , varying at all from that of the church of england , are false ; we know then your measure of the one only true religion . but that your care is only of conformity to the church of england , and that by the true religion you mean nothing else , appears too from your way of expressing your self in thi●… passage , where you own that you suppose that as this only true religion ( to wit , the national religion now in england , back'd with the publick authority of law ) ought to be received where-ever it is preached ; so where-ever it is received all other religions ought to be discouraged in some measure by the civil powers . if the religion establish'd by law in england , be the only true religion , ought it not be preached and received every where , and all other religions discouraged throughout the world ? and ought not the magistrates of all countries to take care that it should be so ? but you only say , where-ever it is preach'd , it ought to be received ; and where-ever it is received , other religions ought to be discouraged , which is well suted to your scheme for inforcing conformity in england , but could scarce drop from a man whose thoughts were on the true religion , and the promoting of it in other parts ' of the world. force then must be used in england , and penalties laid on dissenters there . for what ? to bring them to the true religion , whereby it is plain you mean not only the doctrine but discipline and ceremonies of the church of england , and make them a part of the only true religion : why else do you punish all dissenters for rejecting the true religion , and use force to bring them to it ? when yet a great , if not the greatest part of dissenters in england own and profess the doctrine of the church of england , as firmly as those in the communion of the church of england . they therefore , though they believe the same religion with you , are excluded from the true church of god , that you would have men brought to , and are amongst those who reject the true religion . i ask whether they are not in your opinion out of the way of salvation , who are not joined in communion with the true church ? and whether there can be any true church without bishops ? if so , all but conformists in england that are of any church in europe besides the lutherans and papists , are out of the way of salvation , and so according to your system have need of force to be brought into it : and these too , one for their doctrine of transubstantiation , the other for that of consubstantiation , ( to omit other things vastly differing from the church of england ) you will not , i suppose , allow to be of the true religion : and who then are left of the true religion but the church of england ? for the abyssines have too wide a difference in many points for me to imagine , that is one of those places you mean where toleration would do harm as well as in england . and i think the religion of the greek church can ●…carce be supposed by you to be the true . for if it should , it would be a strong instance against your assertion , that the true religion cannot subsist , but would quickly be effectually extirpated without the assistance of authority , since this has subsisted without any such assistance now above years . i take it then for granted , ( and others with me cannot but do the same , till you tell us , what other religion there is of any church , but that of england , which you allow to be the true religion ) that all you say of bringing men to the true religion , is only bringing them to the religion of the church of england . if i do you an injury in this , it will be capable of a very easy vindication : for it is but naming that other church differing from that of england , which you allow to have the true religion , and i shall yield my self convinc'd , and shall allow these words , viz. the national religion now in england , back'd by the publick authority of law , being the only true religion , only as a little hasty sally of your zeal . in the mean time i shall argue with you about the use of force to bring men to the religion of the church of england , as established by law : since it is more easy to know what that is , than what you mean by the true religion , if you mean any thing else . to proceed therefore ; in the next place i tell you , by using force your way to bring men to the religion of the church of england , you mean only to bring them to an outward profession of that religion ; and that , as i have told you elsewhere , because force used your way , being applied only to dissenters , and ceasing as soon as they conform , ( whether it be intended by the law-maker for any thing more or no , which we have examined in another place ) cannot be to bring men to any thing mo●…e than outward conformity . for if force be used to dissenters , and them only , to bring men to the true religion , and always as soon as it has brought men to conformity , it be taken off , and laid aside , as having done all is expected fro●… it ; 't is plain , that by bringing men to the true religion , and bringing them to outward conformity , you mean the same thing . you use and continue force upon dissenters , because you expect some effect from it : when you take it off , it has wrought that effect , or else being in your power , why do you not continue it on ? the effect then that you talk of , being the imbracing the true religion , and the thing you are satisfied with without any farther punishment , expectation , or inquiry , being outward conformity , 't is plain imbracing the true religion and outward conformity with you , are the same things . neither can you say it is presumable that those who outwardly conform do really understand , and inwardly in their hearts imbrace with a lively faith and a sincere obedience , the truth that must save them . . because it being , as you tell us , the magistrate's duty to do all that in him lies for the salvation of all his subjects , and it being in his power to examine , whether they know and live sutable to the truth that must save them , as well as conform , he can or ought no more to presume , that they do so , without taking an account of their knowledg and lives , than he can or ought to presume that they conform , without taking any account of their coming to church . would you think that physician discharged his duty , and had ( as was pretended ) a care of mens lives , who having got them into his hands , and knowing no more of them , but that they come once or twice a week to the apothecary's shop , to hear what is prescribed them , and sit there a while , should say it was presumable they were recovered , without ever examining whether his prescriptions had any effect , or what estate their health was in ? . it cannot be presumable , where there are so many visible instances to the contrary . he must pass for an admirable presumer , who will seriously affirm that it is presumable that all those who conform to the national religion where it is true , do so understand , believe and practise it , as to be in the way of salvation . . it cannot be presumable , that men have parted with their corruption and lusts to avoid force , when they fly to conformity , which can shelter them from force without quitting their lusts. that which is dearer to men than their first-born , is , you tell us , their lusts ; that which is harder than the hardships of false religions , is the mortifying those lusts : here lies the difficulty of the true religion , that it requires the mortifying of those lusts ; and till that be done , men are not of the true religion , nor in the way of salvation : and 't is upon this account only that you pretend force to be needful . force is used to make them hear ; it prevails , men hear : but that is not enough , because the difficulty lies not in that ; they may hear arguments for the truth , and yet retain their corruption . they must do more , they must consider those arguments . who requires it of them ? the law that insticts the punishment , does not ; but this we may be sure their love of their lusts , and their hatred of punishment requires of them , and will bring them to , viz. to consider how to retain their beloved lusts , and yet avoid the uneasiness of the punishment they lie under ; this is presumable they do ; therefore they go one easy step farther , they conform , and then they are safe from force , and may still retain their corruption . is it therefore presumable they have parted with their corruption , because force has driven them to take sanctuary against punishment in conformity , where force is no longer to molest them , or pull them from their darling inclinations ? the difficulty in religion is , you say , for men to part with their lusts ; this makes force , necessary : men find out a way by consorming to avoid force without parting with their lusts , therefore it is presumable when they con●…orm , that force which they can avoid without quitting their lusts , has made them part with them , which is indeed not to part with their lusts , because of force , but to part with them gratis ; which if you can say is presumable , the foundation of your need of force ( which you place in the prevalency of corruption , and mens adhering to their lusts ) will be gone , and so there will be no need of force at all . if the great difficulty in religion be for men to part with or mortify their lusts , and the only counter-ballance in the other scale , to assist the true religion , to prevail against their lusts , be force ; which i beseech you is presumable , if they can avoid force , and retain their lusts , that they should quit their lusts , and heartily imbrace the true religion , which i●… incompatible with them ; or else that they should avoid the force , and retain their lusts ? to say the former of these , is to say that it is presumable , that they will quit their lusts , and heartily imbrace the true religion for its own sake : for he that heartily imbraces the true religion , because of a force which he knows he can avoid at pleasure , without quitting his lusts , cannot be said so to imbrace it , because of that force : since a force he can avoid without quitting his lusts , cannot be said to assist truth in making him quit them : for in this truth has no assistance from it at all . so that this i●… to say there is no need of force at all in the case . take a co●…tous wretch , whose heart is so set upon money , that he would give his first-born to save his bags ; who is pursued by the force of the magistrate to an arrest , and compelled to hear what is alledg'd against him ; and the prosecution of the law threatning imprisonment or other punishment , if he do not pay the just debt which is demanded of him : if he enters himself in ●…he ki●…g's bench , where he can enjoy his freedom without paying the debt , and parting with his money ; will you say that it is presumable he did it to pay the d●…bt , and not to avoid the force of the law ? the lust of the flesh and pride of life are as strong and prevalent as the lust of the eye : and if you will deliberately say again , that it is presumable , that men are driven by force to consider , so as to part with their lusts , when no more is known of them , but that they do what discharges them from the force , without any necessity of parting with their lusts ; i think i shall have occasion to send you to my pagans and mahometans , but shall have no need to say any thing more to you of this matter my self . i agree with you , that there is but one only true religion ; i agree too that that one only true religion is professed and held in the church of england ; and yet i deny , if force may be used to bring men to that true religion , that upon your principles it can lawfully be used to bring men to the national religion in england as established by law ; because force , according to your own rule , being only lawful because it is necessary , and therefore unfit to be used where not necessary , i. e. necessary to bring men to salvation , it can never be lawful to be used to bring a man to any thing , that is not necessary to salvation , as i have more fully shewn in another place . if therefore in the national religion of england , there be any thing put in as necessary to communion , that is , though true , yet not necessary to salvation , force cannot be lawfully used to bring men to that communion , though the thing so required in it self may perhaps be true . there be a great many truths contained in scripture , which a man may be ignorant of , and consequently not believe , without any danger to his salvation , or else very few would be capable of salvation : for i think i may truly say , there was never any one , but he that was the wisdom of the father , who was not ignorant of some , and mistaken in others of them . to bring men therefore to imbrace such truths , the use of force by your own rule cannot be lawful : because the belief or knowledg of those truths themselves not being necessary to salvation , there can be no necessity men should be brought to imbrace them , and so no necessity to use force to bring men to imbrace them . the only true religion which is necessary to salvation , may in one national church have that joined with it , which in it self is manifestly false and repugnant to salvation ; in such a communion no man can join without quitting the way of salvation . in another national church , with this only true religion may be joined , what is neither repugnant nor necessary to salvation ; and of such there may be several churches differing one from another in confessions , ceremonies and discipline , which are usually call'd different religions , with either or each of which a good man ( if satisfied in his own mind ) may communicate without danger , whilst another not satisfied in conscience concerning something in the doctrine , discipline or worship , cannot safely , nor without sin , communicate with this or that of them . nor can force be lawfully used on your principles to bring any man to either of them , because such things are required to their communion , which not being requisite to salvation , men may seriously and conscientiously differ , and be in doubt about , without indangering their souls . that which here raises a noise , and gives a credit to it , whereby many are misled into an unwarrantable zeal , is , that these are called different religions ; and every one thinking his own the true , the only true , condemns all the rest as false religions . whereas those who hold all things necessary to salvation , and add not thereto any thing in doctrine , discipline or worship , inconsistent with salvation , are of one and the same religion , though divided into different societies or churches , under different forms : which whether the passion and polity of designing ; or the sober and pious intention of well-meaning men , set up , they are no other , than the contrivances of men , and such they ought to be esteemed in whatsoever is required in them , which god has not made necessary to salvation , however in its own nature it may be indifferent lawful or true . for none of the articles or confessions of any church , that i know , containing in them all the truths of religion , though they contain some that are not necessary to salvation , to garble thus the truths of religion , and by their own authority take some not necessary to salvation , and make them the terms of communion ; and leave out others as necessary to be known and believed , is purely the contrivance of men : god never having appointed any such distinguishing system ; nor , as i have shew'd , can force , upon your principles , lawfully be used to bring men to imbrace it . concerning ceremonies , i shall here only ask you whether you think kneeling at the lord's supper , or the cross in baptism , are necessary to salvation ? i mention these as having been matter of great scr●…ple : if you will not say they are , how can you say that force can be lawfully used to bring men into a communion , to which these are made necessary ? if you say , kneeling is necessary to a decent uniformity , ( for of the cross in baptism i have spoken elsewhere ) though that should be true yet 't is an argument you cannot use for it , if you are of the church of england : for , if a decent uniformity may be well enough preserved without kneeling at prayer , where decency requires it at least as much as at receiving the sacrament , why may it not well enough be preserved without kneeling at the sacrament ? now that uniformity is thought sufficiently preserved without kneeling at prayer , is evident by the various postures men are at liberty to use , and may be generally observed , in all our congregations , during the minister's prayer in the pulpit before and after his sermon , which it seems can consist well enough with decency and uniformity ; tho it be at prayer addressed to the great god of heaven and earth , to whose majesty it is that the reverence to be expressed in our gestures is due , when we put up petitions to him , who is invariably the same , in what or whose words soever we address our selves to him . the preface to the book of common-prayer tells us , that the ri●…es and ceremonies appointed to be used in divine worship , are things in their own nature indifferent and alterable . here i ask you , whether any humane power can make any thing , in its own nature indifferent , necessary to salvation ? if it cannot , then neither can any humane power be justified in the use of force , to bring men to conformity in the use of such things . if you think men have authority to make any thing , in it self indifferent , a necessary part of god's worship , i shall desire you to consider what our author says of this matter , which has not yet deserved your notice . the misapplying his power , you say , is a sin in the magistrate , and lays him open to divine vengeance . and is it not a misapplying of his power , and a sin in him to use force to bring men to such a compliance in an indifferent thing , which in religious worship may be a sin to them ? force , you say , may be used to punish those who dissent from the communion of the church of england . let us suppose now all its doctrines not only true , but necessary to salvation ; but that there is put into the terms of its communion some indifferent action which god has not enjoin'd , nor made a part of his worship , which any man is perswaded in his conscience not to be lawful ; suppose kneeling at the sacrament , which having been superstitiously used in adoration of the bread as the real body of christ , may give occasion of scruple to some now , as well as eating of flesh offered to idols did to others in the apostles time ; which though lawful in it self , yet the apostle said , he would eat no flesh while the world standeth , rather than make his weak brother offend . and if to lead , by example , the scrupulous into any action , in it self indifferent , which they thought unlawful , be a sin , as appears at large , rom. xiv . how much more is it to add force to our example , and to compel men by punishments to that , which , though indifferent in it self , they cannot join in without sinning ? i desire you to shew me how force can be necessary in such a case , without which you acknowledg it not to be lawful . not to kneel at the lord's supper , god not having ordained it , is not a sin ; and the apostles receiving it in the posture of sitting or lying , which was then used at meat , is an evidence it may be received not kneeling . but to him that thinks kneeling is unlawful , it is certainly a sin. and for this you may take the authority of a very judicious and reverend prelate of our church , in these words ; where a man is mistaken in his judgment , even in that case it is always a sin to act against it ; by so doing , he wilfully acts against the best light which at present he has for the direction of his actions . i need not here repeat his reasons , having already quoted him above more at large ; though the whole passage , writ ( as he uses ) with great strength and clearness , deserves to be read and considered . if therefore the magistrate enjoins such an unnecessary ceremony , and uses force to bring any man to a sinful communion with our church in it , let me ask you , doth he sin , or misapply his power or no ? true and false religions are names that easily engage mens affections on the hearing of them ; the one being the aversion , the other the desire ( at least as they perswade themselves ) of all mankind . this makes men forwardly give into these names , where-ever they meet with them ; and when mention is made of bringing men from false to the true religion ( very often without knowing what is meant by those names ) they think nothing can be done too much in such a business , to which they intitle god's honour , and the salvation of mens souls . i shall therefore desire of you , if you are that fair and sincere lover of truth you profess , when you write again , to tell us what you mean by true , and what by a false religion , that we may know which in your sense are so : for as you now have used these words in your treatise , one of them seems to stand only for the religion of the church of england , and the other for that of all other churches . i expect here you should make the same outcries against me , as you have in your former letter , for imposing a sense upon your words contrary to your meaning ; and for this you will appeal to your own words in some other places : but of this i shall leave the reader judg , and tell him , this is a way very easy and very usual for men , who having not clear and consistent notions , keep themselves as much as they can under the shelter of general and variously applicable terms , that they may save themselves from the absurdities or consequences of one place , by a help from some general or contrary expression in another : whether it be a desire of victory , or a little too warm zeal for a cause you have been hitherto perswaded of , which hath led you into this way of writing ; i shall only mind you , that the cause of god requires nothing , but what may be spoken out plainly in a clear determined sense , without any reserve or cover . in the mean time this i shall leave with you as evident , that force upon your ground cannot be lawfully used to bring men to the communion of the church of england , ( that being all that i can find you clearly mean by the true religion ) till you have proved that all that is required of one in that communion , is necessary to salvation . however therefore you tell us , that convenient force used to bring men to the true religion , is all that you contend for , and all that you allow . that it is for promoting the true religion . that it is to bring men to consider , so as not to reject the truth necessary to salvation .... to bring men to imbrace the truth that must save them . and abundance more to this purpose . yet all this talk of the true religion amounting to no more , but the national religion established by law in england ; and your bringing men to it , to no more than bringing them to an outward profession of it ; it would better have suted that condition , ( viz. without prejudice , and with an honest mind ) which you require in others , to have spoke plainly what you aimed at , rather than prepossess mens minds in favour of your cause , by the impressions of a name that in truth did not properly belong to it . it was not therefore without ground that i said , i suspected you built all on this lurking supposition , that the national religion now in england , back'd by the publick authority of the law , is the only true religion , and therefore no other is to be tolerated : which being a supposition equally unavoidable , and equally just in other countries ; unless that we can imagine that every-where but in england , men believe what at the same time they think to be a lie , &c. here you erect your plumes , and to this your triumphant logick gives you not patience to answer , without an air of victory in the entrance : how , sir , is this supposition equally unavoidable , and equally just in other countries , where false religions are the national ? ( for that you must mean , or nothing to the purpose . ) hold , sir , you go too fast ; take your own system with you , and you will perceive it will be enough to my purpose , if i mean those religions which you take to be false : for if there be any other national churches , which agreeing with the church of england in what is necessary to salvation , yet have established ceremonies different from those of the church of england ; should not any one who dissented here from the church of england upon that account , as preferring that to our way of worship , be justly punished ? if so , then punishment in matters of religion being only to bring men to the true religion , you must suppose him not to be yet of it , and so the national church he approves of , not to be of the true religion . and yet is it not equally unavoidable , and equally just , that that church should suppose its religion the only true religion , as it is that yours should do so , it agrecing with yours in things necessary to salvation , and having made some things , in their own nature indifferent , requisite to conformity for decency and order , as you have done ? so that my saying , it is equally unavoidable , and equally just in other countries , will hold good , without meaning what you charge on me , that that supposition is equally unavoidable , and equally just , where the national religion is absolutely false . but in that large sense too , what i said will hold good ; and you would have spared your useless subtilties against it , if you had been as willing to take my meaning , and answered my argument , as you were to turn what i said to a sense which the words themselves shew i never intended . my argument in short was this , that granting force to be useful to propagate and support religion , yet it would be no advantage to the true religion , that you a member of the church of england , supposing yours to be the true religion , should thereby claim a right to use force , since such a supposition to those who were members of other churches , and believed other religions , was equally unavoidable , and equally just . and the reason i annexed , shews both this to be my meaning , and my assertion to be true : my words are , unless we can imagin●… that every-where but in england , men believe what at the sam●… time they think to be a lie. having therefore never said , nor thought that it is equally unavoidable , or equally just , that men in every country should believe the national religion of the country ; but that it is equally unavoidable , and equally just , that men believing the national religion of their country , be it true or false , should suppose it to be true ; and let me here add also , should endeavour to propagate it : you however go on thus to reply ; if so , then i fear it will be equally true too , and equally rational : for otherwise i see not how it can be equally unavoidable , or equally just : for if it be not equally true , it cannot be equally just ; and if it be not equally rational , it cannot be equally unavoidable . but if it be equally true , and equally rational , then either all religions are true , or none is true : for if they be all equally true , and one of them be not true , then none of them can be true . i challenge any one to put these four good words , unavoidable , just , rational and true , more equally together , or to make a better-wrought deduction : but after all , my argument will nevertheless be good , that it is no advantage to your cause , for you or any one of it , to suppose yours to be the only true religion ; since it is equally unavoidable , and equally just for any one , who believes any other religion , to suppose the same thing . and this will always be so , till you can shew , that men cannot receive false religions upon arguments that appear to them to be good ; or that having received falshood under the appearance of truth , they can , whilst it so appears , do otherwise than value it , and be acted by it , as if it were true . for the equality that is here in question , depends not upon the truth of the opinion imbraced , but on this , that the light and perswasion a man has at present , is the guide which he ought to follow , and which in his judgment of truth he cannot avoid to be governed by . and therefore the terrible consequences you dilate on in the following part of that page , i leave you for your private use on some sitter occasion . you therefore who are so apt without cause to complain of want of ingenuity in others , will do well hereafter to consult your own , and another time change your stile ; and not under the undesined name of the true religion , because that is of more advantage to your argument , mean only the religion established by law in england , shutting out all other religions now professed in the world. though when you have defined what is the true religion , which you would have supported and propagated by force ; and have told us 't is to be found in the liturgy and thirty nine articles of the church of england ; and it be agreed to you , that that is the only true religion , your argument ( for force as necessary to mens salvation ) from the want of light and strength enough in the true religion to prevail against mens lusts , and the corruption of their nature , will not hold ; because your bringing men by force , your way applied , to the true religion , be it what you will , is but bringing them to an outward conformity to the national church . but the bringing them so far , and no farther , having no opposition to their lusts , no inconsistency with their corrupt nature , is not on that account at all necessary , nor does at all help , where only , on your grounds , you say , there is need of the assistance of force towards their salvation . chap. viii . of salvation to be procured by force your way . there cannot be imagined a more laudable design than the promoting the salvation of mens souls , by any one who shall undertake it . but if it be a pretence made use of to cover some other by-interest , nothing can be more odious to men , nothing more provoking to the great god of heaven and earth , nothing more misbecoming the name and character of a christian. with what intention you took your p●…n in hand to defend and incourage the use of force in the business of mens salvation , 't is sit in charity we take your word ; but what your scheme , as you have delivered it , is guilty of , 't is my business to take notice of , and represent to you . to my saying , that if persecution , as is pretended , were for the salvation of mens souls , bare conformity would not serve the turn , but men would be examined whether they do it upon reason and conviction : you answer , who they be that pretend that persecution is for the salvation of mens souls , you know not . whatever you know not , i know one , who in the letter under consideration pleads for force , as useful for the promoting the salvation of mens souls : and that the use of force is no other means for the salvation of mens souls , than what the author and finisher of our faith has directed . that so far is the magistrate , when he gives his helping - hand to the furtherance of the gospel , by laying convenient penalties upon such as reject it , or any part of it , from using any other means for the salvation of mens souls , than what the author and finisher of our faith has directed , that he does no more than his duty for promoting the salvation of souls . and as the means by which men may be brought into the way of salvation . ay , but where do you say that persecution is for the salvation of souls ? i thought you had been arguing against my meaning , and against the things i say , and not against my words in your meaning , which is not against me . that i used the word persecution for what you call force and penalties , you knew : for in pag. . that immediately precedes this , you take notice of it , with some little kind of wonder , in these words ; persecution , so it seems you call all punishments for religion . that i do so then , ( whether properly or improperly ) you could not be ignorant ; and then i beseech you apply your answer here to what i say : my words are ; ` i●… persecution ( as is pretended ) were for the salvation of mens souls , men that conform would be examined whether `they did so upon reason and conviction . change my word persecution into punishment for religion , and then consider the truth or ingenuity of your answer : for in that sense of the word persecution , do you know no body that pretends persecution is for the salvation of mens souls ? so much for your ingenuity , and the arts you allow your self to serve a good cause . what do you think of one of my pagans or mahometans ? could he have done better ? for i shall often have occasion to mind you of them . now to your argument i said , that i thought those who make laws , and use force , to bring men to church-conformity in religion ; seek only the compliance , but concern themselves not for the conviction of those they punish , and so never use force to convince . for pray tell me , when any dissenter conforms , and enters into the church-communion , is he ever examined to see whether he does it upon reason and conviction , and such grounds as would become a christian concerned for religion ? if persecution ( as i●… pr●…tended ) were for the salvation of mens souls , this would be done , and men not driven to take the sacrament to keep their places , or obtain licences to s●…ll ale , ( for so low have these holy things been prostituted . ) to this you here reply ; as to those magistrates , who having provided sufficiently for the instruction of all under their care , in the true religion , do make laws , and use moderate penalties to bring men to the communion of the church of god , and conformity to the rules and orders of it , i think their behaviour does plainly enough speak them to seek and concern themselves for the conviction of those wh●…m they punish , and for their compliance only as the fruit of their conviction . if means of instruction were all , that is necessary to convince people , the providing sufficiently for instruction would be an evidence , that those that did so , did seek and concern themselves for mens conviction : but if there be something as necessary for conviction as the means of instruction , and without which those means will signify nothing , and that be severe and impartial examination ; and if force be , as you say , so necessary to make men thus examine , that they can by no other way but force be brought to do it : if magistrates do not lay their penalties on non-examination , as well as provide means of instruction , whatever you may say you think , few people will sind reason to believe you think those magistrates seek and concern themselves much for the conviction of those they punish , when that punishment is not levell'd at that , which is a hindrance to their conviction , i. e. against their aversion to severe and impartial examination . to that aversion no punishment can be pretended to be a remedy , which does not reach and combat the aversion ; which ' 〈◊〉 plain no punishment does , which may be avoided without parting with , or abating the prevalency of that aversion . this is the case , where men undergo punishments for not conforming , which they may be rid of , without 〈◊〉 and impartially examining matters of religion . to shew that what i mentioned was no sign of unconcernedness in the magistrate for mens conviction ; you add , nor does the contrary appear from the not examining dissenters when they conform , t●… see whether they do it upon reason and conviction : for where sufficient instruction is provided , it is ordinarily presumable that when dissenters conform , they do it upon reason and conviction . here if ordinarily signifies any thing , ( for it is a word you make much use of , whether to express or cover your sense , let the reader judg ) then you suppose there are cases wherein it is not presumable ; and i a●…k you whether in those , or any cases it be examin'd whether dissenters when they conform , do it upon reason and conviction ? at best that it is ordinarily pr●…sumable , is but gra●…is dictum , especially since you suppose , that it is the corruption of their nature that hinders them from considering as they ought , so as upon reason and. conviction to imbrace the truth : which corruption of nature , that they may retain with conformity i think is very presumable . but be that as it will , this i am fure is ordinarily and always presumable , that if those who use force , were as intent upon mens conviction , as they are on their conformity , they would not wholly content themselves with the one , without ever examining and looking into the other . another excuse you make for this neglect , is , that as to irreligious persons who only seek their s●…chlar advantage , how easy it is for them to pretend conviction , and to offer such grounds ( if that were required ) as would become a christian concerned for religion , that is , what no care of man can certainly prevent . this is an admirable justification of your hypothesis . men are to be punished : to what end ? to make them severely and impartially consider matters of religion , that they may be convinced , and thereupon sincerely imbrace the truth . but what need of force or punishment for this ? because their lusts and corruptions will otherwise keep them both from considering as they ought , and imbracing the true religion ; and therefore they must lie under penalties till they have considered as they ought , which is when they have upon conviction imbraced . but how shall the magistrate know when they upon conviction imbrace , that he may then take off their penalties ? that indeed cannot be known , and ought not to be inquired after , because irreligious persons who only seek their secular advantage , or in other words , all those who desire at their ease to retain their beloved lusts and corruptions , may easily pretend conviction , and offer such grounds ( if it were required ) as would become a christian concerned for religion : this is what no care of man can certainly prevent . which is reason enough , why no busy forwardness in man to disease his brother should use force upon pretence of prevalling against man's corruptions , that hinder their considering and imbracing the truth upon conviction , when 't is confessed , it cannot be known , whether they have considered , are convinced , or have really imbraced the true religion or no ? and thus you have shewn us your admirable remedy , which is not it seems for the irreligious ( for 't is easy , you say , for them to pretend conviction , and so avoid punishment ) but for those who would be religious without it . but here in this case , as to the intention of the magistrate , how can it be said , that the force he uses is designed by subduing mens corruptions , to make way for considering and imbracing the tr●…th , when it is so applied , that it is confessed here , that a man may get rid of the penalties without parting with the corruptions , they are pretended to be used against ? but you have a ready answer , this is what no care of man can certainly prevent ; which is but in other words to proclaim the ridiculousness of your use of force , and to avow that your method can do nothing . if by not certainly , you mean it may any way , or to any degree prevent , why is it not so done ? if not , why is a word that signifies nothing put in , unless it be for a shelter on occasion ? a benefit you know how to draw from this way of writing : but this here taken how you please , will only serve to lay blame on the magistrate , or your hypothesis , chuse you whether . i for my part have a better opinion of the ability and management of the magistrate : what he aimed at in his laws , that i believe he mentions in them , and as wise men do in bu●…nes , fpoke out plainly what he had a mind should be done . but c●…inly there cannot a more ridiculous character be put on law-makers , than to tell the world they intended to make men consider , examine , &c. but yet neither required nor named any thing in their laws but conformity . though yet when men are certainly to be punished for not really imbracing the true religion , there ought to be certain matters of fact , whereby those that do , and those that do not so imbrace the truth , should be distinguished ; and for that you have , 't is true , a clear and established criterion , i. e. conformity and nonconformity : which do very certainly distinguish the innocent from the guilty ; those that really and sincerely do imbrace the truth that must save them , from those that do not . but , sir , to resolve the question , whether the conviction of mens understandings , and the salvation of their souls , be the business and aim of those who use force to bring men into the profession of the national religion ; i ask , whether if that were so , there could be so many as there are , not only in most country-parishes , but , i think i may say , may be found in all parts of england , grosly ignorant in the doctrines and principles of the christian religion , if a strict inquiry were made into it ? if force be necessary to be used to bring men to salvation , certainly some part of it would 〈◊〉 out some of the ignorant and unconsidering that are in the national church , as well as it does so diligently all the nonconformists out of it , whether they have considered , or are knowing or no. but to this you give a very ready answer ; would you have the magistrate punish all indifferently , those who obey the law as well as them that do not ? what is the obedience the law requires ? that you tell us in these words , if the magistrate provides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the instruction of all his subjects in the true religion , and then requires them all under convenient penalties to 〈◊〉 to the teachers and ministers of it , and to profess and exercise it with one accord under their direction in publick assemblies : which in other words is but conformity , which here you express a little plainer in these words ; but as those magistrates who having provided sufficiently for the instruction of all under their care in the true religion do make laws , and use moderate penalties to bring men to the communion of the church of god , and to conform to the rules and orders of it . you add , is there any pretence to say that in so doing , he [ the magistrate ] applies force only to a part of his 〈◊〉 , when the law is general , and excepts none ? there is no pretence , i confess , to say that in so doing he applies force only to a part of his subjects , to make them conformists , from that it is plain the law excepts none . but if conformists may be ignorant , grosly ignorant of the principles and doctrines of christianity ; if there be no 〈◊〉 used to make them consider as they ought , so as to understand , be convinced of , believe and obey the truths of the gospel , are not they exempt from that force which you say is to make men consider and examine matters of religion as they ought to do ? force is applied to all indeed to make them conformists : but if being conformists once , and frequenting the places of publick worship , and there shewing an outward compliance with the ceremonies prescribed , ( for that is all the law requires of all , call it how you please ) they are exempt from all force and penalties , though they are never so ignorant , never so far from understanding , believing , receiving the truths of the 〈◊〉 ; i think it is evident that then force is not applied to all to 〈◊〉 the conviction of the vnderstanding . to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper to convince the mind , and which without being forced , they would not consider . to bring men to that consideration , which nothing else but force ( besides the extraordinary grace of god ) would bring them to . to make men good christians . to make men receive instruction . to cure their aversion to the true religion . to bring men to consider and examine the controversies which they are bound to consider and examine , i. e. those wherein they cannot err without dishonouring god , and endangering their own and other mens eternal salvation . to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially . to bring men to the true religion and to salvation . that then force is not applied to all the subjects for these ends , i think you will not deny . these are the ends for which you tell us in the places quoted , that force is to be used in matters of religion : 't is by its vsefulness and necessity to those ends , that you tell us , the magistrate is authorized and obliged to use force in matters of 〈◊〉 . now if all these ends be not attained by a bare 〈◊〉 , and yet if by a bare conformity men are wholly exempt from all force and penalties in matters of religion , will you say that for these ends force is applied to all the magistrate's subjects ? if you will , i must send you to my pagans and 〈◊〉 for a little conscience and modesty . if you 〈◊〉 force 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 to all for these ends , notwithstanding any laws obliging all to conformity , you must also confess , 〈◊〉 what you say concerning the laws being general , is nothing to the purpose ; since all that are under penalties for not 〈◊〉 are not under any penalties for ignorance , irreligion , or the want of those ends for which you say penalties are useful and necessary . you go on , and therefore if such persons profane the sacrament to keep their places , or to obtain licences to sell ale , this is an horrible wickedness . i 〈◊〉 them not . but it is their own , and they alone must answer for it . yes , and those who threatned poor ignorant and irreligious ale-sellers , whose livelihood it was , to take away their licences , if they did not conform and receive the sacrament , may be thought perhaps to have something to answer for . you add , but it is very unjust to impute it to those who make such laws , and use such force , or to say that they prostitute holy things , and drive men to profane them . nor is it just to insinuate in your answer , as if that had been said which was not . but if it be true that a poor ignorant loose irreligious wretch should be threatned to be turn'd out of his calling and livelihood , if he would not take the sacrament : may it not be said these holy things have been so low prostituted ? and if this be not profaning them , pray tell me what is ? this i think may be said without injustice to any body , that it does not appear , that those who make strict laws for conformity , and take no care to have it examined upon what grounds men conform , are not very much concern'd , that mens understandings should be convinced : and though you go on to say , that they design by their laws to do what lies in them to make men good christians : that will scarce be believed , if what you say be true , that force is necessary to bring those who cannot be otherwise brought to it , to study the true religion , with such care and diligence as they might and ought to use , and with an honest mind . and yet we see a great part , or any of those who are ignorant in the true religion , have no such force applied to them , especially since you tell us , in the same place , that no man ever studied the true religion with such care and diligence as he might and ought to use , and with an honest mind , but he was convinced of the truth of it . if then force and penalties can produce that study , care , diligence and honest mind , which will produce knowledg and conviction ( and that as you say in the following words ) make good men ; i ask you , if there be found in the communion of the church , exempt from force upon the account of religion , ignorant , irreligious , ill men ; and that to speak moderately , not in great disproportion fewer than amongst the nonconformists , will you believe your self , when you say the magistrates do by their laws all that in them lies to make them good christians ; when they use not that force to them which you , not i , say is necessary ; and that they are , where it is necessary , obliged to use ? and therefore i give you leave to repeat again the words you subjoin here , but if after all they [ i. e. the magistrates ] can do , wicked and godless men will still resolve to be so , they will be so , and i know not who but god almighty can help it . but this being spoken of conformists , on whom the magistrates lay no penalties , use no force for religion , give me leave to mind you of the ingenuity of one of my pagans or mahometans . you tell us , that the usefulness of force to make scholars learn , authorizes schoolmasters to use it . and would you not think a schoolmaster discharged his duty well , and had a great care of their learning , who used his rod only to bring boys to school ; but if they come there once a week , whether they slept , or only minded their play , never examined what proficiency they made , or used the rod to make them study and learn , tho they would not apply themselves without it ? but to shew you how much you your self are in earnest for the salvation of souls in this your method , i shall set down what i said , p. . of my letter on that subject , and what you answer , p. . of yours . l. . p. . you speak of it here as the most deplorable condition imaginable , that men should be left to themselves , and not be forced to consider and examine the grounds of their religion , and search impartially and diligently after the truth . this you make the great miscarriage of mankind ; and for this you seem solicitous , all through your treatise , to find out a remedy ; and there is scarce a leaf wherein you do not offer yours . but what if after all , now you should be found to prevaricate ? men have contrived to themselves , say you , a great variety of religions : 't is granted . they seek not the truth in this matter with that application of mind , and that freedom of judgment which is requisite : 't is confessed . all the false religions now on foot in the world , have taken their rise from the slight and partial consideration , which men have contented themselves with in searching after the true ; and men take them up , and persist in them for want of due examination : be it so . there is need of a remedy for this ; and i have found one whose success cannot be questioned : very well . what is it ? let us hear it . why , dissenters must be punished . can any body that hears you say so , believe you in earnest ; and that want of examination is the thing you would have amended , when want of examination is not the thing you would have punished ? if want of examination be the fault , want of examination must be punished ; if you are , as you pretend , fully satisfied that punishment is the proper and only means to remedy it . but if in all your treatise you can shew me one place , where you say that the ignorant , the careless , the inconsiderate , the negligent in examining throughly the truth of their own and others religion , &c. are to be punished , i will allow your remedy for a good one . but you have not said any thing like this ; and which is more , i tell you before-hand , you dare not say it . and whilst you do not , the world has reason to judg , that however want of examination be a general fault , which you with great vehemency have exaggerated ; yet you use it only for a pretence to punish dissenters ; and either distrust your remedy , that it will not cure this evil , or else care not to have it generally cur'd . this evidently appears from your whole management of the argument . and he that reads your treatise with attention , wil be more confirm'd in this opinion , when he shall find , that you ( who are so earnest to have men punished , to bring them to consider and examine , that so they may discover the way to salvation ) have not said one word of considering , searching , and hearkning to the scripture ; which had been as good a rule for a christian to have sent them to , as to reasons and arguments proper to convince them , of you know not what ; as to the instruction and government of the proper ministers of religion , which who they are , men are yet far from being agreed ; or as to the information of those , who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right ; and to the like uncertain and dangerous guides ; which were not those that our saviour and the apostles sent men to , bat to the scriptures . search the scriptures , for in them you think you have eternal life , says our saviour to the unbelieving persecuting jews . and 't is the scriptures which st. paul says , are able to make wise unto salvation . talk no more therefore , if you have any care of your reputation , how much it is every man's interest not to be left to himself , without molestation , without punishment in matters of religion . talk not of bringing men to imbrace the truth that must save them , by putting them upon examination . talk no more of force and punishment , as the only way lest to bring men to examin . 't is evident you mean nothing less : for tho want of examination be the only fault you complain of , and punishment be in your opinion the only way to bring men to it ; and this the whole design of your book ; yet you have not once proposed in it , that those who do not impartially examine , should be forced to it . and that you may not think i talk at random , when i say you dare not ; i will , if you please , give you some reasons for my saying so . first , because if you propose that all should be punished , who are ignorant , who have not used such consideration as is apt and proper to manifest the truth ; but have been determined in the choice of their religion by impressions of education , admiration of persons , worldly respects , prejudices , and the like incompetent motives ; and have taken up their religion , without examining it as they ought ; you will propose to have several of your own church ( be it what it will ) punished ; which would be a proposition too apt to offend too many of it , for you to venture on . for whatever need there be of reformation , every one will not thank you sor proposing such an one as must begin at ( or at least reach to ) the house of god. secondly , because if you should propose that all those who are ignorant , careless , and negligent in examining , should be punished , you would have little to say in this question of toleration : for if the laws of the state were made as they ought to be , equal to all the subjects , without distinction of men of different professions in religion ; and the faults to be amended by punishments , were impartially punished in all who are guilty of them ; this would immediately produce a perfect toleration , or shew the uselesness of force in matters of religion . is therefore you think it so necessary , as you say , for the promoting of true religion , and the salvation of souls , that men should be punished to make them examine ; do but sind a way to apply force to all that have not throughly and impartially examined , and you have my consent . for tho force be not the proper means of promoting religion ; yet there is no better way to shew the uselesness of it , than the applying it equally to miscarriage , in whomsoever found , and not to distinct : parties or perswasions of men , for the reformation of them alone , when others are equally faulty . thirdly , because without being sor as large a toleration as the author proposes , you cannot be truly and sincerely for a free and impartial examination . for whoever examines , must have the liberty to judg , and follow his judgment ; or else you put him upon examination to no purpose . and whether that will not as well lead men from , as to your church , is so much a venture , that by your way of writing , 't is evident enough you are loth to hazard it ; and if you are of the national church , 't is plain your brethren will not bear with you in the allowance of such a liberty . you must therefore either change your method ; and if the want of examination be that great and dangerous fault you would have corrected , you must equally punish all that are equally guilty of any neglect in this matter , and then take your only means , your beloved force , and make the best of it ; or else you must put off your mask , and confess that you design not your punishments to bring men to examination , but to conformity . for the fallacy you have used , is too gross to pass upon this age. l. . p. . your next paragraph runs high , and charges me with nothing less than prevarication . for whereas , as you tell me , i speak of it here as the most deplorable condition imaginable , that men should be left to themselves , and not be forced to consider and examine the grounds of their religion , and search impartially and diligently after the truth , &c. it seems all the remedy i offer , is no more than this , dissenters must be punished . vpon which thus you insult ; can any body that hears you say so , believe you in earnest , &c. now here i acknowledg , that though want or neglect of examination be a general fault , yet the method i propose for curing it , does not reach to all that are guilty of it , but is limited to those who reject the true religion , preposed to them with sufficient evidence . but then to let you see how little ground you have to say that i prevaricate in this matter , i shall only desire you to consider , what it is that the author and my self were enquiring after : for it is not , what course is to be taken to confirm and establish those in the truth , who have already embraced it : nor , how they may be enabled to propagate it to others , ( for both which purposes i have already acknowledged it very useful , and a thing much to be desired , that all such persons should , as far as they are able , search into the grounds upon which their religion stands , and challenges their belief ; ) but the subject of our enquiry is only , what method is to be used , 〈◊〉 bring men to the true religion . now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after , ( as you cannot deny it to be ) then every one sees that in speaking to this point , i had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true religion ; because they are not to be brought to that religion , but only to be confirmed and edified in it ; but was only to consider how those who reject it , may be brought to imbrace it . so that how much soever any of those who own the true religion , may be guilty of neglect of examination ; 't is evident , i was only concerned to shew how it may be cured in those , who by reason of it , reject the true religion , duly proposed or tender'd to them . and certainly to confine my self to this , is not to prevaricate , unless to keep within the bounds which the question under debate prescribes me , be to prevaricate . in telling me therefore that i dare not say that the ignorant , the careless , the inconsiderate , the negligent in examining , &c. ( i. e. all that are such ) are to be punished , you only tell me that i dare not be impertinent . and therefore i hope you will excuse me , if i take no notice of the three reasons you offer in your next page for your saying so . and yet if i had had a mind to talk impertinently , i know not why i might not have dared to do so , as well as other men. there is one thing more in this paragraph , which though nothing more pertinent than the rest , i shall not wholly pass over . it lies in these words ; he that reads your treatise with attention , will be more confirm'd in this opinion , ( viz. that i use want of examination only for a pretence to punish dissenters , &c. ) when he shall find that you ( who are so earnest to have men punish'd , to bring them to consider and examine , that so they may discover the way of salvation ) have not said one word of considering , searching , and hearkning to the scripture ; which had been as good a rule for a christian to have sent them to , as to reasons and arguments proper to convince them , of you know not what , &c. how this confirms that opinion , i do not see ; nor have you thought fit to instruct me . but as to the thing it self , viz. my not saying one word of considering , searching , and hearkning to the scripture ; whatever advantage a captious adversary may imagine he has in it , i hope it will not seem strange to any indifferent and judicious person , who shall but consider that throughout my treatise i speak of the true religion only in general , i. e. not as limited to any particular dispensation , or to the times of the scriptures ; but as reaching from the fall of adam to the end of the world , and so comprehending the times which preceded the scriptures ; wherein yet god left not himself without witness , but furnished mankind with sufficient means of knowing him and his will , in order to their eternal salvation . for i appeal to all men of art , whether , speaking of the true religion under this generality , i could be allowed to descend to any such rules of it , as belong only to some particular times , or dispensations ; such as you cannot but acknowledg the old and new testaments to be . in this your answer you say , the subject of our inquiry is only what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion . he that reads what you say , again and again , that the magistrate is impower'd and obliged to procure as much as in him lies , i. e. as far as by penalties it can be procured that no man neglect his soul , and shall remember how many pages you imploy , a. p , &c. and here p. , &c. to shew that it is the corruption of humane nature which hinders men from doing what they may and ought for the salvation of their souls , and that therefore penalties , no other means being left , and force were necessary to be used by the magistrate to remove these great obstacles of l●…sts and corruptions , that none of his subjects might remain ignorant of the way of salvation , or refuse to imbrace it . one would think your inquiry had been after the means of cvring mens aversion to the true religion , ( which you tell us , p. . if not cured , is certainly destructive of mens eternal salvation ) that so they might heartily imbrace it for their salvation . but here you tell us , your inquiry is only what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion : whereby you evidently mean nothing but outward conformity to that which you think the true church , as appears by the next following words ; now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after , then every one sees that in speaking to this point , i had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true religion . and also every one sees that since amongst those with whom ( having already imbraced the true religion ) you and your penalties have nothing to do ; there are those who have not considered and examined matters of religion as they ought , whose lusts and corrupt natures keep them as far alienated from believing , and as averse to a real obeying the truth that must save them , as any other men ; it is manifest that imbracing the true religion in your sense is only imbracing the outward profession of it , which is nothing but outward conformity . and that being the furthest you would have your penalties pursue men , and there leave them with as much of their ignorance of the truth , and carelesness of their souls as they please , who can deny but that it would be impertinent in you to consider how want of impartial examination , or aversion to the true religion should in them be cured ? because they are none of those subjects of the commonwealth , whose spiritual and eternal interests are by political government to be procured or advanced , none of those subjects whose salvation the magistrate is to take care of . and therefore i excuse you , as you desire , for not taking notice of my three reasons ; but whether the reader will do so or no , is more than i can undertake . i hope you too will excuse me for having used so harsh a word as prevaricate , and impute it to my want of skill in the english tongue . but when i find a man pretend to a great concern for the salvation of mens souls , and make it one of the great ends of civil government , that the magistrate should make use of force to bring all his subjects to consider , study and examine , believe and imbrace the truth that must save them : when i shall have to do with a man , who to this purpose hath writ two books to find out and desend the proper remedies for that general backwardness and aversion ( which depraved humane nature keeps men in ) to an impartial search after , and hearty imbracing the true religion ; and who talks of nothing less than obligations on soveraigns , both from their particular duty , as well as from common charity , to take care that none of their subjects should want the assistance of this only means left for their salvation ; nay , who has made it so necessary to mens salvation , that he talks as if the wisdom and goodness of god would be brought in question , if those who needed it should be destitute of it ; and yet notwithstanding all this shew of concern for mens salvation , contrives the application of this sole remedy so , that a great many who lie under the disease , should be out of the reach and benefit of his cure , and never have this only remedy applied to them : when this i say is so manifestly in his thoughts all the while , that he is forced to confess that though want or neglect of examination be a general fault , yet the method he proposes for curing it does not reach to all that are guilty of it ; but frankly owns , that he was not concerned to shew how the neglect of examination might be cured in those who conform , but only in those who by reason of it reject the true religion duly proposed to them : which rejecting the true religion will require a man of art to shew to be here any thing but nonconformity to the national religion . when , i say , i meet with a man another time that does this , who is so much a man of art , as to talk of all , and mean but some ; talk of hearty imbracing the true religion , and mean nothing but conformity to the national ; pretend one thing , and mean another ; if you please to tell me what name i shall give it , i shall not fail : for who knows how soon again i may have an occasion sor it . if i would punish men for nonconformity without owning of it , i could not use a better pretence than to say it was to make them hearken to reasons and arguments proper to convince them , or to make them submit to the instruction and government of the proper ministers of religion , without any thing else , supposing still at the bottom the arguments for , and the ministers of my religion to be these , that till they outwardly complied with , they were to be punished . but if ( instead of outward conformity to my religion covered under these indesinite terms ) i should tell them , they were to examine the scripture , which was the sixed rule for them and me , not examining could not give me a pretence to punish them , unless i would also punish conformists as ignorant and unversed in the scripture as they , which would not do my business . but what need i use arguments to shew , that your punishing to make men examine is designed only against dissenters , when in your answer to this very paragraph of mine , you in plain words acknowledg , that though want of examination be a general fault , yet the method you propose for curing does not reach to all that are guilty of it ? to which if you please to add what you tell us , that when dissenters conform , the magistrate cannot know , and therefore never examins whether they do it upon reason and conviction or no , though it be certain that upon conforming , penalties , the necessary means , cease , it will be obvious , that whatever be talked , conformity is all that is aimed at , and that want of examination is but the pretence to punish dissenters . and this i told you , any one must be convinced of , who observes that you ( who are so earnest to have men punished to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the way of salvation ) have not said one word of considering , searching , and hearkning to the scripture , which , you were told , was as good a rule for a christian to have sent men to , as to the instruction and government of the proper ministers of religion , or to the information of those who tell them they have mistaken ' their way , and offer to shew them the right . for this p●…ssing by the scripture you give us this reason , that throughout your trea●…se you speak of the true religion only in general , i. e. not as limited to any particular dispensation , or to the times of the scriptures , but as reaching from the fall of adam to the end of the world , &c. and then you appeal to all men of art , whether speaking of the true religion under this generality , you could be allowed to descend to any such rules of it as belong only to some particular times or dispensations , such as i cannot but acknowledg the old and new testaments to be . the author that you write against , making it his business ( as no body can doubt who reads but the first page of his letter ) to shew that it is the duty of christians to tolerate both christians and others who differ from them in religion , 't is pretty strange ( in asserting against him that the magistrate might and ought to use force to bring men to the true religion ) you should mean any other magistrate than the christian magistrate ; or any other religion than the christian religion . but it seems you took so little notice of the design of your adversary , which was to prove , that christians were not to use force to bring any one to the true christian religion ; that you would prove , that christians now were to use force , not only to bring men to the christian , but also to the jewish religion ; or that of the true church before the law , or to some true religion so general that it is none of these . for , say you , throughout your treatise you speak of the true religion only in general , i. e. not as limited to any particular dispensation : though one that were not a man of art would suspect you to be of another mind your self , when you told us , the shuting out of the jews from the rights of the common-wealth , is a just and necessary caution in a christian commonwealth ; which you say to justify your exception in the beginning of your a — against the largeness of the author's toleration , who would not have jews excluded . but speak of the true religion only in general as much as you please , if your true religion be that by which men must be saved , can you send a man to any better guide to that true religion now than the scripture ? if when you were in your altitudes , writing the first book , your men of art could not allow you to descend to any such rule as the scripture , ( though even there you acknowledg the severities spoken against , are such as are used to make men christians ) because there ( by an art proper to your self ) you were to speak of true religion under a generality , which had nothing to do with the duty of christians , in reference to toleration . yet when here in your second book , where you condescend all along to speak of the christian religion , and tell us , that the magistrates have authority to make laws for promoting the christian religion , and do by their laws design to contribute what in them lies to make men good christians ; and complain of toleration as the very bane of the life and spirit of christianity , &c. and have vouchsafed particularly to mention the gospel ; why here , having been call'd upon for it , you could not send men to the scriptures , and tell them directly , that those they were to study diligently , those they were impartially and carefully to examine , to bring them to the true religion , and into the way of salvation ; rather than talk to them as you do , of receiving instruction , and considering reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them ; rather than propose , as you do all along , such objects of examination and enquiry in general terms , as are as hard to be found , as the thing it self , for which they are to be examined : why i say you have here again avoided sending men to examine the scriptures , is just matter of inquiry . and for this you must apply your self again to your men of art , to furnish you with some other reason . if you will but cast your eyes back to your next page , you will there find that you build upon this , that the subject of your and the author's i●…quiry is only what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion . if this be so , your men of art , who cannot allow you to descend to any such rule as the scriptures , because you speak of the true religion in general , i. e. not as limited to any particular dispensation , or to the times of the scriptures , must allow , that you deserve to be head of their colledg ; since you are so strict an observer of their rules , that though your inquiry be , what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion ( now under the particular dispensation of the gospel , and under scripture-times ) you think it an unpardonable fault to recede so far from your generality , as to admit the study and examination of the scripture into your method ; for fear , 't is like , your method would be too particular , if it would not now serve to bring men to the true religion , who lived before the flood . but had you had as good a memory , as is generally thought needful to a man of art , it is believed you would have spared this reason , for your being so backward in putting men upon examination of the scripture . and any one , but a man of art , who shall read what you tell us the magistrate's duty is ; and will but consider how convenient it would be , that men should receive no instruction but from the ministry , that you there tell us the magistrate assists ; examine no arguments , hear nothing of the gospel , receive no other sense of the scripture , but what that ministry proposes ; who if they had but the coactive power , ( you think them as capable of as other men ) might assist themselves ; he , i say , who reflects but on these things , may perhaps find a reason that may better satisfy the ignorant and unlearned , who have not had the good luck to arrive at being of the number of these men of art , why you cannot descend to propose to men the studying of the scripture . let me for once suppose you in holy orders , ( for we that are not of the adepti , may be allow'd to be ignorant of the punctilio's in writing observed by the men of art : ) and let me then ask what art is this , whose rules are of that authority ; that one , who has received commission from heaven to preach the gospel in season and out of season , for the salvation of souls , may not allow himself to propose the reading , studying , examining of the scripture , which has for at least these sixteen hundred years contained the only true religion in the world ; for fear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proposal should offend against the rules of this art by being too particular and consined to the gospel-dispensation ; and therefore could not pass muster , nor find admittance , in a treatise wherein the author professes it his only business to inquire what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion ? do you expect any other dispensation ; that you are so afraid of being too particular , if you should recommend the use and study of the scripture , to bring men to the true religion now in the times of the gospel ? why might you not as well send them to the scriptures , as to the ministers and teachers of the true religion ? have those ministers any other religion to teach , than what is contained in the scriptures ? but perhaps you do this out of kindness and care , because possibly the scriptures could not be found ; but who were the ministers of the true religion , men could not possibly miss . indeed you have allowed your self to descend to what belongs only to some particular times and dispensations , for their sakes , when you speak of the ministers of the gospel . but whether it be as fully agreed on amongst christians , who are the ministers of the gospel that men must hearken to , and be guided by ; as which are the writings of the apostles and evangelists , that ( if studied ) will instruct them in the way to heaven ; is more than you or your men of art can be positive in . where are the canons of this over-ruling art to be found , to which you pay such reverence ? may a man of no distinguishing character be admitted to the privilege of them ? for i see it may be of notable use at a dead-lift , and bring a man off with flying colours , when truth and reason can do him but little service . the strong guard you have in the powers you write for ; and when you have engaged a little too far , the safe retreat you have always at hand in an appeal to these men of art , made me almost at a stand , whether i were not best make a truce with one who had such auxiliaries . a friend of mine finding me talk thus , replied briskly ; 't is a matter of religion , which requires not men of art ; and the assistance of such art as savours so little of the simplicity of the gospel , both shews and makes the cause the weaker . and so i went on to your two next paragraphs . in them , to vindicate a pretty strange argument for the magistrate's use of force , you think it convenient to repeat it out of your a. p. . and so , in compliance with you , shall i do here again . there you tell us , the power you ascribe to the magistrate is given him to bring men , not to his own , but to the true religion : and though ( as our author puts us in mind ) the religion of every prince is orthodox to himself ; yet if this power keep within its bounds , it can serve the interest of no other religion but the true , among such as have any concern for their eternal salvation ; ( and those that have none , deserve not to be considered ) because the penalties it inables him that has it to instict , are not such as may tempt such persons either to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or to profess one which they do not believe to be so ; but only such as are apt to put them upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them , which is the way for them to come to the knowledg of the truth . and if , upon such examination of the matter , they chance to sind that the truth does not lie on the magistrate's side , they have gained thus much however , even by the magistrate's misapplying his power , that they know better than they did before , where the truth doth lie : and all the hurt that comes to them by it , is only the suffering some tolerable inconveniences for their following the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences ; which , certainly , is no such mischief to mankind as to make it more eligible that there should be no such power vested in the magistrate , but the care of every man's soul should be left to himself alone , ( as this author demands it should be . ) to this i tell you , that here , out of abundant kindness , when dissenters have their heads ( without any cause ) broken , you provide them a plaister . for , say you , if upon such examination of the matter ( i. e. brought to it by the magistrate's punishment ) they chance to find that the truth doth not lie on the magistrate's side ; they have gain'd thus much however , even by the magistrate's misapplying his power , that they know better than they did before , where the truth does lie . which is as true as if you should say ; upon examination i find such an one is out of the way to york , therefore i know better than i did before that i am in the right . for neither of you may be in the right . this were true indeed , if there were but two ways in all , a right and a wrong . to this you reply here ; that whoever shall consider the penalties , will , you perswade your self , find no heads broken , and so but little need of a plaister . the penalties , as you say , are to be such as will not tempt such as have any concern for their eternal salvation , either to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or profess one which they believe not to be so , but only such as ( being weigh'd in gold-scales ) are just enough , or as you express it , are apt to put them upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them . if you had been pleased to have told us what penalties those were , we might have been able to guess whether there would have been broken heads or no. but since you have not vouchsafed to do it , and if i mistake not , will again appeal to your men of art for another dispensation rather than ever do it ; i fear no body can be sure these penalties will not reach to something worse than a broken head : especially if the magistrate shall observe that you impute the rise and growth of salse religions ( which it is the magistrate's duty to hinder ) to the pravity of humane nature , unbridled by authority ; which , by what follows , he may have reason to think is to use force sufficient to counterballance the folly , perverseness and wickedness of men : and whether then he may not lay on penalties sufficient , if not to break mens heads , yet to ruin them in their estates and liberties , will be more than you can undertake . and since you acknowledg here , that the magistrate may err so far in the use of this his power , as to mistake the persons that he lays his penalties on ; will you be security that he shall not also mistake in the proportion of them , and lay on such as men would willingly exchange for a broken head ? all the assurance you give us of this , is ; if this power keep within its bounds ; i. e. as you here explain it , if the penalties the magistrate makes use of to promote a false religion , do not exceed the measure of those which he may warrantably use for the promoting the true. the magistrate may notwithstanding any thing you have said , or can say , use any sort of penalties , any degree of punishment ; you having neither shew'd the measure of them , nor will be ever able to shew the utmost measure which may not be exceeded , if any may be used . but what is this i find here ? if the penalties the magistrate makes use of to promote a false religion . is it possible that the magistrate can make use of penalties to promote a false religion ; of whom you told us but three pages back , that it may always be said of him , ( what st. paul said of himself ) that he can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth ? by that one would have thought you had undertaken to us , that the magistrate could no more use force to promote a false religion , than st. paul could preach to promote a false religion . if you say , the magistrate has no commission to promote a false religion , and therefore it may always be said of him , what st. paul said of himself &c. i say , no minister was ever commissioned to preach falshood ; and therefore it may always be said of every minister , ( what st. paul said of himself ) that he can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth : whereby we shall very commodiously have an infallible guide in every parish , as well as one in every commonwealth . but if you thus use scripture , i imagine you will have reason to appeal again to your men of art ; whether , though you may not be allowed to recommend to others the examination and use of scripture , to find the true religion , yet you your self may not use the scripture to what purpose , and in what sense you please , for the defence of your cause . to the remainder of what i said in that paragraph , your answer is nothing but an exception to an inference i made . the argument you were upon , was to justify the magistrate's inflicting penalties to bring men to a false religion , by the gain those that suffered them would receive . their gain was this ; that they would know better than they did before , where the truth does lie . to which i replied , which is as true , as if you should say , upon examination i find such an one is out of the way to york ; therefore i know better than i did before , that i am in the right . this consequence you find fault with , and say it should be thus ; therefore i know better than i did before , where the right way lies . this , you tell me , would have been true ; which was not for my purpose . these consequences , one or t'other , are much-what alike true . for he that of an hundred ways , amongst which there is but one right , shuts out one that he discovers certainly to be wrong , knows as much better than he did before , that he is in the right , as he knows better than before , where the right way lies . for before 't was to one he was not in the right ; and now he knows 't is but to one that he is not in the right ; and therefore knows so much better than before , that he is in the right , just as much as he knows better than he did before , where the right way lies . for let him , upon your supposition , proceed on ; and every day , upon examination of a controversy with some one in one of the remaining ways , discover him to be in the wrong ; he will every day know better than he did before , equally , where the right way lies , and that he is in it ; till at last he will come to discover the right way it self , and himself in it . and therefore your inference , whatever you think , is as much as the other for my purpose ; which was to shew what a notable gain a man made in the variety of false opinions and religions in the world , by discovering that the magistrate had not the truth on his side ; and what thanks he owed the magistrate , for inslicting penalties upon him so much for his improvement , and for affording him so much knowledg at so cheap a rate . and should not a man have reason to boast of his purchase , if he should by penalties be driven to hear and examine all the arguments can be proposed by those in power for all their foolish and false religions ? and yet this gain is what you propose , as a justification of magistrates inslicting penalties for the promoting their false religions . and an impartial examination of the controversy between them and the magistrate , you tell us here , is the way for such as have any concern for their eternal salvation , to come to the knowledg of the truth . to my saying , ` he that is punished may have examined before , ` and then i am sure he gains nothing : you reply , but neither does he lose much , if it be true , which you there add , that all the hurt that befalls him , is only the suffering some tolerable inconvenience for his following the light of his own reason , and the dictates of his conscience . so it is therefore you would have a man rewarded for being an honest man ; ( for so is he who follows the light of his own reason , and the dictates of his conscience ; ) only with the suffering some tolerable inconveniences . and yet those tolerable inconveniences are such as are to counterballance mens lusts , and the corruption of depraved nature ; which you know any slight penalty is sufficient to master . but that the magistrate's discipline shall stop at those your tolerable inconveniences , is what you are loth to be guarantee for : for all the security you dare give of it , is , if it be true which you there add . but if it should be otherwise , the hurt may be more i see than you are willing to answer for . l. . p. . however , you think you do well to incourage the magistrate in punishing , and comfort the man who has suffer'd un●…stly , by shewing what he shall gain by it . whereas , on the contrary , in a discourse of this nature , where the bounds of right and wrong are enquired into , and should be establish'd , the magistrate was to be shew'd the bounds of his authority , and warn'd of the injury he did when he misapplies his power , and punish'd any man who deserv'd it not ; and not be sooth'd into injustice , by consideration of gain that might thence accrue to the sufferer . shall we do evil , that good may come of it ? there are a sort of people who are very wary of touching upon the magistrate's duty , and tender of shewing the bounds of his power , and the injustice and ill consequences of his misapplying 〈◊〉 ; at least , so long as it is misapply'd in favour of them , and their party . i know not whether you are of their number ; but this i am sure , you have the misfortune here to fall into their mistake . the magistrate , you confess , may in this case misapply his power : and instead of representing to him the injustice of it , and the account he must give to his sovereign one day of this great trust put into his hands , for the equal protection of all his subjects , you pretend advantages which the sufferer may receive from it : and so instead of disheartning from , you give encouragement to the mischief . which , upon your principle , join'd to the natural thirst in man after arbitrary power , may be carried to all manner of exorbitancy , with some pretence of right . l. . p. . as to what you say here of the nature of my discourse , i shall only put you in mind that the question there debated is ; whether the magistrate has any right or authority to use force for the promoting the true religion . which plainly supposes the vnlawfulness and injustice of using force to promote a false religion , as granted on both sides . so that i could no way be obliged to take notice of it in my discourse , but only as occasion should be offer'd . and whether i have not shew'd the bounds of the magistrate's authority , as far as i was any way obliged to do it , let any indifferent person judg . but to talk here of a sort of people who are very wary of touching upon the magistrate's duty , and tender of shewing the bounds of his power , where i tell the magistrate that the power i ascribe to him in reference to religion , is given him to bring men , not to his own , but to the true religion ; and that he misapplies it , when he endeavours to promote a false religion by it , is , methinks , at least a little unseasonable . nor am i any more concern'd in what you say of the magistrate's misapplying his power in favour of a party . for as you have not yet proved that his applying his power to the promoting the true religion , ( which is all that i contend for ) is misapplying it ; so much less can you prove it to be misapplying it in favour of a party . but that i encourage the magistrate in punishing men to bring them to a false religion , ( for that is the punishing we here speak of ) and sooth him into injustice , by shewing what those who suffer unjustly shall gain by it , when in the very same breath i tell him that by so punishing , he misapplies his power , is a discovery which i believe none but your self could have made . when i say that the magistrate misapplies his power by so punishing ; i suppose all other men understand me to say , that he sins in doing it , and lays himself open to divine vengeance by it . and can he be encouraged to this , by hearing what others may gain by what ( without repentance ) must cost him so dear ? here your men of art will do well to be at hand again . for it may be seasonable for you to appeal to them , whether the nature of your discourse will allow you to descend to shew ` the magistrate the bounds of his authority , and warn him of ` the injury he does , if he misapplies his power . you say , the question there debated , is , whether the magistrate has any right or authority to use force for promoting the true religion ; which plainly supposes the vnlawfulness and injustice of using force to promote a 〈◊〉 religion , as granted on both sides . neither is that the question in debate ; nor if it were , does it suppose what you pretend . but the question in debate is , as you put it , whether any body has a right to use force in matters of religion ? you say indeed , the magistrate has , to bring men to the true religion . if thereupon , you think the magistrate has none to bring men to a false religion , whatever your men of art may think , 't is probable other men would not have thought it to have been besides the nature of your discourse , to have warn'd the magistrate , that he should consider well , and impartially examine the grounds of his religion before he use any force to bring men to it . this is of such moment to mens temporal and eternal interests , that it might well deserve some particular 〈◊〉 addressed to the magistrate ; who might as much need to be put in mind of impartial examination as other people . and it might , whatever your men of art may allow , be justly expected from you ; who think it no derivation from the rules of art , to tell the subjects that they must submit to the penalties laid on them , or else fall under the sword of the magistrate ; which how true soever , will hardly by any body be sound to be much more to your purpose in this discourse , than it would have been to have told the magistrate of what ill consequence it would be to him and his people , if he misused his power , and warn'd him to be cautious in the use of it . but not a word that way . nay even where you mention the account he shall give for so doing , it is still to satisfy the subjects that they are well provided for , and not left unfurnish'd of the means of salvation , by the right god has put into the magistrate's hands to use his power to bring them to the true religion ; and therefore , they ought to be well content , because if the magistrate misapply it , the great judg will punish him for it . look , sir , and see whether what you say , any where , of the magistrate's misuse of his power , have any other tendency : and then i appeal to the sober reader , whether if you had been as much concern'd for the bounding , as for the exercise of force in the magistrates hands , you would not have spoke of it 〈◊〉 another manner . the next thing you say , is , that the question ( being , whether the magistrate has any right to use force to bring men to the true religion , ) supposes the vnlawfulness of using force to promote a false religion as granted on both sides ; which is so far from true , that i suppose quite the contrary , viz. that if the magistrate has a right to use force to promote the true , he must have a right to use force to promote his own religion ; and that for reasons i have given you elsewhere . but the supposition of a supposition serves to excuse you from speaking any thing directly of setting bounds to the magistrate's power , or telling him his duty in that point ; though you are very frequent in mentioning the obligation he is under , that men should not want the assistance of his force ; and how answerable he is , if any body miscarry for want of it ; though there be not the least whisper of any care to be taken , that no body be 〈◊〉 by it . and now i recollect my self ; i think your method would not allow it : for if you should have put the magistrate upon examining , it would have suppos'd him as liable to error as other men ; whereas , to secure the magistrate's acting right , upon your foundation of never using force but for the true religion , i see no help for it , but either he or you ( who are to licence him ) must be got past the state of examination , into that of certain knowledg and infallibility . indeed , as you say , you tell the magistrate that the power you ascribe to him in reference to religion , is given him to bring men not to his own , but to the true religion . but do you put him upon a severe and impartial examination ; which , amongst the many false , is the one only true religion he must use force to bring his subjects to ; that he may not mistake and misapply his power in a business of that consequence ? not a syllable of this . do you then tell him which it is he must take , without examination , and promote with force ; whether that of england , france or denmark ? this , methinks , is as much as the pope , with all his infallibility , could require of princes . and yet , what is it less than this you do ; when you suppose the religion of the church of england to be the only true ; and upon this your supposition , tell the magistrate it is his duty , by force , to bring men to it ; without ever putting him upon examining , or suffering him or any body else to question , whether it be the only true religion or no ? for if you will stick to what you in another place say , that it is enough to suppose that there is one true religion , and but one , and that that religion may be known by those who profess it ; what authority will this knowableness of the true religion , give to the king of england more than to the king of france , to use force , if he does not actually know the religion he professes to be the true ; or to the magistrate more than the subject , if he has not examin'd the grounds of his religion ? but if he believes you when you tell him , your religion is the true , all is well ; he has authority enough to use force , and he need not examine any farther . if this were not the case ; why you should not be careful to prepare a little advice to make the magistrate examine , as well as you are sollicitous to provide force to make the subject examine , will require the skill of a man of art to discover . whether you are not of the number of those men i there mention'd , ( for that there have been such men in the world , instances might be given ) one may doubt srom your principles . for if upon a supposition that yours is the true religion , you can give authority to the magistrate to 〈◊〉 penalties on all his subjects that dissent from the communion of the national church , without examining whether theirs too may not be that only true religion which is necessary to salvation ; is not this to demand , that the magistrate's power should be applied only in favour of a party ? and can any one avoid being confirm'd in this suspicion , when he reads that broad insinuation of yours , p. . as if our magistrates were not concern'd for truth 〈◊〉 piety , because they granted a relaxation of those penalties , which you would have imploid in favour of your party : for so it must be call'd , and not the church of god , exclusive of others ; unless you will say men cannot be saved out of the communion of your particular church , let it be national where you please . you do not , you say , encourage the magistrate to misapply his power ; because in the very same breath you tell him he misapplies his power . i answer , let all men understand you , as much as you please , to say that he sins in doing it ; that will not excuse you from encouraging him there ; unless it be impossible that a man may be encourag'd to sin. if your telling the magistrate that his subjects gain by his misapplying of force , be not an encouragement to him to misapply it , the doing good to others must cease to be an encouragement to any action . and whether it be not a great encouragement in this case to the magistrate , to go on in the use of 〈◊〉 , without impartially examining whether his or his subjects be the true religion ; when he is told that ( be his religion true or false , ) his subjects , who suffer , will be sure to be gainers by it , let any one judg . for the encouragement is not ( as you put it ) to the magistrate to use force to bring men to what he thinks a false religion ; but it is an encouragement to the magistrate , who presumes his to be the true religion , to punish his dissenting subjects ; without due and impartial examination on which side the truth lies . for having never told the magistrate , that neglect of examination is a sin in him ; if you should tell him a thousand times , that he who uses his power to bring men to a false religion misapplies it ; he would not understand by it that he sinn'd , whilst he thought his the true ; and so it would be no restraint to the misapplying his power . and thus we have some prospect of this admirable machin you have 〈◊〉 up for the salvation of souls . the magistrate is to use force to bring men to the true religion . but what if he misapplies it to bring men to a false religion ? 't is well still for his subjects : they are gainers by it . but this may encourage him to a misapplication of it . no ; you tell him that he that uses it to bring men to a false religion , misapplies it ; and therefore he cannot but understand that you say he sins , and lays himself open to divine vengeance . no ; he believes himself in the right ; and thinks as st. paul , whilst a persecutor , that he does god good service . and you assure him here , he makes his suffering . subjects gainers ; and so he goes on as comfortably as st. paul did . is there no remedy for this ? yes , a very ready one , and that is , that the one only true religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only true religion . to which , if we add how you moderate as well as direct the magistrate's hand in punishing ; by making the last regulation of your convenient penalties to lie in the prudence and experience of magistrates themselves ; we shall find the advantages of your method . for are not your necessary means of salvation , which lie in moderate penalties used to bring men to the true religion , brought to an happy state ; when that which is to guide the magistrate in the knowledg of the true religion , is , that the true religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only true religion ; and the convenient penalties to be used for the promoting of it , are such as the magistrate shall in his prudence think fit ; and that whether the magistrate applies it right or wrong , the subject will be a gainer by it ? if in either of your discourses , you have given the magistrate any better direction than this to know the true religion by , which he is by force to promote ; or any other intelligible measure to moderate his penalties by ; or any other caution to restrain the misuse of his power ; i desire you to shew it me : and then i shall think i have reason to believe , that in this debate you have had more care of the true religion , and the salvation of souls , than to encourage the magistrate to use the power he has , by your direction , and without examination , and to what degree he shall think sit , in favour of a party . for the matter thus stated , if i mistake not , will serve any magistrate , to use any degree of force , against any that dissent from his national religion . having recommended to the subjects the magistrate's 〈◊〉 by a shew of gain , which will accrue to them by it , you do well to bring in the example of julian ; who whatever he did to the christians , would ( no more than you ) own that it was persecution , but for their advantage in the other world. but whether his pretending gain to them , upon grounds which he did not believe ; or your pretending gain to them , which no body can believe to be one ; be a greater mockery ; you were best look . this seems reasonable ; that his talk of philanthropy , and yours of moderation , should be bound up together . for till you speak and tell them plainly what they may trust to ; the advantage the persecuted are to receive from your clemency , may , i imagine , make a second part to what the christians of that age 〈◊〉 from his . but you are solicitous for the salvation of souls , and dissenters shall find the benefit of it . chap. ix . of the vsefulness of force in matters of religion . you having granted that in all pleas for any thing , because of its usefulness , it is not enough to say that it may be serviceable ; but it must be considered , not only what it may , but what it is likely to produce ; and the greater good or harm likely to come from it ought to determine the use of it ; i think there need nothing more to be said to shew the uselesness of force in the magistrate's hands for promoting the true religion , after it has been proved that , if any , then all magistrates , who believe their religion to be true , are under an obligation to use it . but since the usefulness and necessity of force is the main foundation on which you build your hypothesis , we will in the two remaining chapters examine particularly what you say for them . to the author 's saying , that truth seldom hath received , and he fears never will receive much assistance from the power of great men , to whom she is but rarely known , and more rarely welcome , you answer , and yet god himself foretold and promised that kings should be nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers to his church . if we may judg of this prophecy by what is past or present , we shall have reason to think it concerns not our days ; or if it does , that god intended not that the church should have many such nursing fathers and nursing mothers , that were to nurse them up with moderate penalties , if those were to be the swadling-clouts of this nursery . perhaps , if you read that chapter , you will think you have little reason to build much on this promise , till the restoring of israel : and when you see the gentiles bring thy ( i. e. 〈◊〉 the stile of the chapter seems to import the sons of the israelites ) sons in their arms , and thy daughters be carried upon their shoulders , as is promised in the immediately preceding words ; you may conclude that then kings shall be thy , ( i. e. israels ) nursing fathers , and queens thy nursing mothers . this seems to me to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by that prophecy , and i guess to a great many others , upon an attentive reading that chapter in isaiah . and to all such this text will do you little service , till you make out the meaning of it better than by barely quoting of it ; which will scarce ever prove , that god hath promised that so many princes shall be friends to the true religion , that it will be better for the true religion that princes should use force for the imposing or propagating of their religions , than not . for unless it prove that , it answers not the author's argument , as an indifferent reader must needs see . for he says not truth never , but she seldom 〈◊〉 received , and he fears never will receive ( not any , but ) much assistance from the power of great men to whom she is bvt rarely known , and more rarely welcome . and therefore to this of isaiah pray join that of st. paul to the corinthians , not many wise , not many mighty , not many noble . but supposing many kings were to be nursing fathers to the church , and that this prophecy were to be fulfilled in this age , and the church were now to be their nursery ; 't is i think more proper to understand this figurative promise , that their pains and discipline was to be imploy'd on these in the church , and that they should feed and cherish them , rather than that these words meant that they should whip those that were out of it . and therefore this text will , i suppose , upon a just consideration of it , signify very little against the known matter of fact which the author urges ; unless you can find a country where the cudgel and the scourge are more the badges and instruments of a good nurse than the breast and the 〈◊〉 ; and that she is counted a good nurse of her own child , who 〈◊〉 her self in whiping children not hers , 〈◊〉 belonging to her nursery . the 〈◊〉 which give you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to hope for any advantage from the authors toleration , which almost all but the church of england injoy'd in the times of the blessed reformation , as it was called , you tell us , were sects and heresies . here your zeal hangs a little in your light. it is not the author's toleration which here you accuse . that , you know , is universal : and the universality of it is that which a little before you wondred at , and complained of . had it been the author's toleration , it could not have been almost all but the church of england ; but it had been the church of england and all others . but let us take it , that sects and 〈◊〉 were , or will be the fruits of a free toleration . i. e. 〈◊〉 are divided in their opinions and ways of worship . differences in ways of worship , wherein there is nothing mixed inconsistent with the true religion , will not hinder men from salvation , who sincerely follow the best light they have ; which they are as likely to do under toleration as force . and as for 〈◊〉 of opinions , speculative opinions in religion , i think i may safely say , that there are 〈◊〉 any where three considering men ( for 't is want of consideration you would punish ) who are in their opinions throughout of the same mind . thus far then , if charity be preserved , ( which it is likelier to be where there is toleration , than where there is persecution ) though without uniformity , i see no great reason to complain of those ill fruits of toleration . but men will run , as they did in the late times , into dangerous and destructive errors , and extravagant ways of worship . as to errors in opinion ; if men upon toleration be so apt to vary in opinions , and run so wide one from another , 't is evident they are not so averse to thinking as you complain . for 't is hard for men , not under force , to quit one opinion and imbrace another , without thinking of them . but if there be danger of that ; it is most likely the national religion should sweep and draw to its self the loose and unthinking part of men ; who without thought , as well as without any contest with their corrupt nature , may imbrace the profession of the countenanced religion , and join in outward communion with the great and ruling men of the nation . for he that troubles not his head at all about religion , what other can so well suit 〈◊〉 as the national , with which the cry and preferments go ; and where ( it being , as you say , presumable that he makes that his profession upon conviction , and that he is in earnest , ) he is sure to be orthodox without the pains of examining , and has the law and government on his side to make it good that he is in the right ? but seducers , if they be tolerated , will be ready at hand , and diligent ; and men will hearken to them . seducers surely have no force on their side , to make people hearken . and if this be so , there is a remedy at hand , 〈◊〉 than force , if you and your friends will use it , which cannot but prevail ; and that is , let the ministers of truth be as diligent ; and they bringing truth with them , truth obvious and easy to be understand ( as you say , what is necessary to salvation is ) cannot but prevail . but seducers are hearken'd to , because they teach opinions favourable to mens lusts. let the magistrate , as is his duty , hinder the practises which their lusts would carry them to , and the advantage will be still on the side of truth . after all , sir , if , as the apostle tells the corinthians , ( cor. . . ) there must be heresies amongst you , that they which are approved may be made manifest ; which , i beseech you , is best for the salvation of mens souls ; that they should enquire , hear , examine , consider , and then have the liberty to profess what they are perswaded of ; or , that having consider'd , they should be forced not to own nor follow their perswasions ; or else , that being of the national religion , they should go ignorantly on without any consideration at all ? in one case , if your penalties prevail , men are forced to act contrary to their consciences , which is not the way to salvation ; and if the penalties prevail not , you have the same fruits , sects and heresies , as under toleration : in the other , 't is true , those ignorant , loose , unthinking conformists , do not break company with those who imbrace the truth that will save them ; but i fear can no more be said to have any share in it , than those who openly dissent from it . for 't is not being in the company , but having on the wedding-garment , that keeps men from being bound hand and foot , and cast into the dreadful and eternal prison . you tell us , force has a proper efficacy to procure the enlightning of the vnderstanding , and the production of belief , viz. by making men consider . but you ascribing mens aversion to examine matters of religion , to the corruption of their nature ; force your way apply'd , ( i. e. so that men avoid the penalties by an outward conformity ) cannot have any proper efficacy to procure consideration ; since men may outwardly conform , and retain their corruption , and aversion to consideration ; and upon this account , force , your way apply'd , is absolutely impertinent . but further ; if force has such a proper efficacy to procure the production of belief , it will do more harm than good , imploid by any but orthodox magistrates . but how to put it only into orthodox hands , is the difficulty . for i think i have proved , that if orthodox magistrates may , and ought to use force , for the promoting their religion , all that think themselves orthodox are obliged to use it too . and this may serve for an answer to all you have said , p. . i having said , whatever indirect efficacy there be in force apply'd by the magistrate your way , it makes against you ; force used by the magistrate , to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments , which are proper and sufficient to convince them , but which without being forced , they would not consider ; may , say you , be serviceable indirectly and at a distance , to make men imbrace the truth which must save them . ` and thus , say i , it may be serviceable to bring men to receive and imbrace falshood , which ` will destroy them . to this you with great triumph reply . how , sir , may force used by the magistrate , to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them , be serviceable to bring men to imbrace falshood , such falshood as will destroy them ? it seems then , there are reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of falshood , which will destroy them . which is certainly a very extraordinary discovery , though such as no man can have any reason to thank you for . in the first place , let me ask you ; where did you find , or from what words of mine do you infer that notable proposition , that there are reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of falshood ? if a magistrate of the true religion may use force to make men consider reasons and arguments proper to convince men of the truth of his religion ; may not a prince of a false religion use force to make men consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of what he believes to be true ? and may not force thus be serviceable to bring men to receive and imbrace falshood ? in the next place ; did you , who argue with so much school-subtilty as if you drank it in at the very fountain , never hear of such an ill way of arguing as a conjunctis ad divisa ? there are no arguments proper and sufficient to bring a man into the ●…elief of what is in it-self fals●… , whilst he knows or believes it to be false ; therefore there are no arguments proper and sufficient to bring a man into the belief of what is in it-self false , which he neither knows nor believes to be so . a senior sophister would be laugh'd at for such logick . and yet this is all you say in that sentence you erect for a trophy , to convince m●…n of the truth of falshood ; which though not my words , but such as you in your way supply from what i said , you are exceedingly pleased with , and think their very repeating a triumph . but though there are no arguments proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth of falshood , as falshood ; yet i hope you will allow that there are arguments proper and sufficient to make men receive falshoods for truths ; why else do you complain of 〈◊〉 ? and those who imbrace falshoods for truths , do it under the appearance of truth , misled by those arguments which make it appear so , and so convince them . and that magistrates who take their religion to be true , though it be not so , may with force urge such arguments , you will , i think , grant . but you talk as if no body could have arguments proper and sufficient to convince another , but he that was of your way , or your church . this indeed is a new and very extraordinary discav●…y , and such as your brethren , if you can convince them of it , will have reason to thank you for . for if any one was ever by arguments and reasons brought off , or seduced from your church , to be a dissenter , there were then i think reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince him . i will not name to you again mr. reynolds , because you have charity enough to question his sincerity . though his leaving his country , friends , and acquaintance , may be presum'd as great a mark of his being convinced and in earnest , as it is for one to write for a national religion in a country where it is uppermost . i will not yet deny but that , in you , it may be pure zeal for the true re●…gion , which you would have assisted with the magi●…ratos force . and since you seem so much concern'd for your sincerity in the argument , it must be granted you deserve the character of a well-meaning man , who own your sincerity in a way so little advantageous to your judgment . but if mr. reynolds , in your opinion , was misled by corrupt ends , or secular interest ; what do you think of a prince now living ? will you doubt his sincerity , or that he was convinced of the truth of the religion he professed , who ventured three crowns for it ? what do you think of mr. chillingworth when he left the church of england for the romish profession ? did he do it without being convinc'd that that was the right ? or was he convinc'd with reasons and arguments , not proper or sufficient to convince him ? but certainly this could not be true , because , as you say , p. . the scripture does not teach any thing of it . or perhaps those that leave your communion do it always without being convinc'd , and only think they are convinc'd when they are not ; or are convinc'd with arguments not proper and sufficient to convince them . if no body can convince another , but he that has truth on his side , you do more honour to the first and second letter concerning toleration , than is for the advantage of your cause , when you impute to them the increase of sects and heresies amongst us . and there are some , even of the church of england , have professed themselves so fully satisfied by the reasons and arguments in the first of them , that though i dare not be positive to you , whose privilege it is to convince men , that they are convinced ; yet i may say , 't is as presumable they are convinced , having owned it , as it is presumable that all that are conformists are made so upon reason and conviction . this , i suppose , may serve for an answer to your next words , that god in his just judgment will send such as receive not the love of truth , that they may be saved , but reject it for the pleasure they have in vnrighteousness , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , strong delusion , i. e. such reasons and arguments as will prevail with men , so disposed , to believe a lie , that they may be damn'd ; this you confess the scripture plainly teaches us . but that there are any such reasons or arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince or satisfy any , but such resolute and obdurate sinners , of the truth of such falshood as will destroy them , is a position which you are sure the scripture doth not 〈◊〉 us ; and which , you tell me , when i have better considered it , you hope i will not undertake to maintain . and yet if it be not maintainable , what i say here is to no purpose : for if there be no such reasons and arguments as here we speak of , 't is in vain to talk of the magistrate's using force to make men consider them . but if you are still of the mind , that no magistrate but those who are of the true religion , can have arguments back'd with force , proper and sufficient to convince ; and that in england none but resolute obdurate sinners ever forsook or forbore the communion of the church of england , upon reasons and arguments that satisfy or convince them ; i shall leave you to enjoy so charitable an opinion . but as to the usefulness of force , your way applied , i shall lay you down again the same argument i used before ; though in words less sitted for your way of reasoning on them , now i know your talent . if there be any efficacy in force to bring men to any perswasion , it will , your way apply'd , bring more men to error than to truth . your way of using it is only to punish men for not being of the national religion ; which is the only way you do or can apply force , without a toleration . nonconformity is the fault that is punish'd ; which fault , when it ceases , the punishment ceases . but yet to make them consider , is the end for which they are punish'd ; but whether it be or be not intended to make men consider , it alters nothing in the case . now i say , that since all magistrates who believe their religion to be true , are as much obliged to use force to bring their subjects to it , as if it were true ; and since most of the national religions of the world are erroneous ; if force made use of to bring men to the national religion , by punishing dissenters , have any efficacy , ( let it be what it will , indirect and at a distance , if you please ) it is like to do twenty times more harm than good ; because of the national religions of the world , to speak much within compass , there are above wrong for one that is right . indeed , could force be directed to drive all men indifferently , who are negligent and backward in it , to study , examine , and consider seriously matters of religion , and search out the truth ; and if men were , upon their study and examination , permitted to follow what appears to them to be right ; you might have some pretence for force , as serviceable to truth in making men consider . but this is impossible , but under a toleration . and i doubt whether , even there , force can be so apply'd , as to make men consider and impartially examine what is true in the professed religions of the world , and to imbrace it . this at least is certain , that where punishments pursue men like outlying deer , only to the pale of the national church ; and when once they are within that , leaves them free there , and at ease ; it can do no service to the true religion , even in a country where the national is the true . for the penalties ceasing as soon as men are got within the pale and communion of the church , they help not men at all against that which you assign as the great hindrance to the true religion , and which therefore , in your opinion , makes force necessary to assist it . for there being no necessity that men should leave either their vices or corruption , or so much as their ignorance , to get within the pale of the church ; force , your way apply'd , serves only to bring them ( even in the few christian and orthodox countries ) to the profession , not to the knowledg , belief or practice , of the true religion . you say corrupt nature inclines men from the true religion to false ones ; and moderate force is requisite to make such men consider . but such men as , out of corrupt nature , and for their ease and carnal pleasures , chuse an erroneous religion without considering , will again , as soon as they can find their choice incommoded by those penalties , consult the same corrupt nature and carnal appetites , and without considering any thing further , conform to that religion where they can best enjoy themselves . 't is only the conscientious part of dissenters , such as dissent not out of indulgence to corrupt nature , but out of perswasion , who will not conform without considering as they ought . and therefore your argument from corrupt nature , is out of doors . if moderate penalties serve only to work on those who are led by corrupt nature , they are of no use but to fill the church with hypocrites ; that is , to make those men worse hypocrites than they were before , by a new act of hypocrisy , and to corrupt the manners of the rest of the church , by their converse with these . and whether this be for the salvation of souls , as is pretended , or for some other end , that the priests of all religions have generally so earnestly contended for it , i leave to be consider'd . for as for those who dissent out of perswasion , i suspect your moderate penalties will have little effect upon them . for such men being awed by the fear of hell-fire , if that fear will not make them consider better than they have done , moderate penalties will be too weak to work upon them . 't is well if dragooning and martyring can do it . but you add , may it not be true nevertheless , that force your way applied may be serviceable indirectly , and at a distance , to bring men to imbrace the truth which may save them ? which is all you are concerned here to make good . so that if it may possibly happen that it should ever bring two men to imbrace the truth , you have gain'd your point , and overthrown toleration , by the usefulness and necessity there is of force . for without being forced these two men would never have considered : which is more yet than you know , unless you are of his private council , who only can tell when the season of grace is past , and the time come that preaching , intreaty , instruction and perswasion shall never after prevail upon a man. but whatever you are here concerned to make good , are you not also concerned to remember what you say ; where declaring against the magistrates having a power to use what may any way , at any time , upon any person , by any accident , be useful towards the promoting the true religion , you say , who sees not that however such means might chance to hit right in some few cases , yet , upon the whole matter , they would certainly do a great deal more harm than good ; and in all pleas , ( making use of my words ) for any thing because of its usefulness , it is not enough to say that it may be serviceable , but it must be considered , not only what it may , but what it is likely to produce ; and the greater good or harm like to come from it , ought to determine the use of it ? you proceed and tell me , that i , not content to say that force your way applied ( i. e. to bring men to imbrace the truth which must save them ) may be serviceable to bring men to imbrace falshood which will destroy them ; and so is proper to do as much harm as good , ( which seems strange enough ; ) i add ( to increase the wonder ) that in your indirect way it is much more proper , and likely to make men receive and embrace error , than the truth : and that , . because men out of the right way are as apt , and i think i may say apter , to use force than others ; which is , doubtless , an irrefragable demonstration , that force used by the magistrate to bring men to receive and imbrace the truth which must save them , is much more proper and likely to make men receive error than the truth . and then you ask me , how we come to talk here of what men out of the right way are apt to do , to bring others into their , ( i. e. a wrong ) way ; where we are only inquiring , what may be done to bring men to the right way . for you must put me in mind , you say , that that is our question , viz. whether the magistrate has any right to use force , to bring men to the true religion . whether the magistrate has aright to use force in matters of religion , as you more truly state it , ( p. . ) is the main question between us , i confess . but the question here between us is about the usefulness of force your way apply'd ; which being to punish dissenters as dissenters , to make them consider , i shew'd would do more harm than good . and to this , you were here answering . whereby , i suppose , it is plain that the question here is about the usefulness of force , so apply'd . and i doubt not but my readers , who are not concerned , when the question in debate will not serve your turn , to have another substituted , will take this for a regular and natural way of arguing , viz. ` that force , your way apply'd , is more proper and likely to make men imbrace error than the truth ; because men out of the right way are as apt , i think i may say ` apter , to use force than others . you need not then ask as you do , how we come to talk here of men out of the right way . you see how . if you do not , i know not what help there is for your eyes . and i must content my self that any other reader that has eyes , will not miss it . and i wonder that you should : since you know i have on several occasions argued against the use of force in matters of religion ; upon a supposition , that if any one , then all magistrates have a just pretence and right to use it ; which has served you in some places for matter of great reproof , and in others of sport and diversion . but because so plain a thing as that was so strange to you , that you thought it a ridiculous paradox to say , that for all magistrates to suppose the religion they believed to be true , was equally just and reasonable ; and because you took no notice of the words adjoin'd that proved it , viz. unless we can imagine every where but in england , [ or where the national religion is the true ] men believe what at the same time they think to be a lie ; i have taken the pains to prove it to you more at large in another place , and therefore shall make bold to use it here as an argument against force , viz. that if it have any efficacy it will do more harm than good ; because men out of the right way are as apt , or apter to use it : and i shall think it a good one , till you have answered it . it is a good and a sure way , and shews a zeal to the cause , still to hold fast the conclusion , and whatever be in debate , return still to one ' old position . i arguing against what you say for the use of force , viz. that force used not to convince by its own proper efficacy , but only to make men consider , might indirectly and at a distance do some service towards the bringing men to imbrace the truth ; after other arguments against it , i say , that whatever efficacy there is in force , your way apply'd , ( i. e. to punish all , and none but , dissenters from the national church ) makes against you : and the first reason i give for it , is in these words ; because men out of the right way are as apt or apter to use force than others . which is what you are here answering . and what can be done better to answer it , than to the words i have above cited , to subjoin these following ? now whereas our author says , that penalties or force is absolutely impertinent in this case , because it is not proper to convince the mind ; to which , you answer , that though force be not proper to convince the mind , yet it is not absolutely impertinent in this case , because it may however , do some service towards the bringing men to embrace the truth which must save them , by bringing them to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper to convince the mind ; and which , with●…ut being fo●…ed , they would not consider . here i tell you , no , but it is much more proper and likely to make men receive and imbrace error than truth ; because men out of the right way are as apt , and perhaps apter , to use force than others . which you tell me , is as good a proof you believe as the thing would admit : for otherwise , you suppose i would have given you a better . and thus you have certainly gain'd the cause . for i having prov'd that force , your way apply'd , whatever efficacy it had , would do more harm than good , have not sufficiently proved that it cannot do some s●…rvice towards the bringing men to imbrace the truth ; and therefore 't is not absolutely impertinent . but since you think this not enough to prove the use of force in matters of religion impertin●…nt , i shall fa●…ther shew you that force , apply'd your way to make people consider , and so to make them imbrace the truth , is impertinent . your way is to lay penalties on men for nonconformity , as you say , to make men consider : now here let me ask any one but you , whether it be not utterly impertinent so to lay penalties on men , to make them consider , when they can avoid those penalties without considering ? but because it is not enough to prove force , your way apply'd , utterly impertinent , i shall shew you in the next place , that were a law made to punish not barely non-conformity , but non-consideration , those penalties laid on not considering , would be utterly impertinent ; because it could never be proved that a man had not consider'd the arguments offer'd him . and therefore all law-makers till you , in all their penal laws about religion , laid all their penalties upon not imbracing ; and 't was against that , that our author was arguing when he said penalties , in this case are absolutely impernent ; because they are not proper to convince the mind . for in that case , when penalties are laid on men for not imbracing , 't is plain they are used as a means to make men imbrace : which , since those who are careless in matters of religion can do without considering , and those who are conscientious cannot do without conviction ; and since penalties can in no wise convince ; this use of them is absolutely impertinent , and will always be so till you can shew a way how they can be used in religion , not as motives to imbrace , but as motives barely to make men consider . for if you punish them on when they tell you they have considered your arguments , but are not convinced by them , and you judg of their having not considered by nothing but their not imbracing , 't is plain you use penalties instead of arguments to convince them ; since without conviction , those who our author pleads for , cannot imbrace ; and those who do imbrace without conviction , 't is all one as if they did not imbrace at all , they being not one jot the more in the way of salvation ; and so penalties are absolutely impertinent . but imbracing in the sense of the law , and yours too , when you say men have not considered as they ought as long as they reject , is nothing but outward conformity , or an outward profession of imbracing , wherewith the law is satisfied , and upon which the penalties cease . now penalties used to make men in this sense imbrace , are absolutely impertinent to bring men to imbrace in earnest , or , as the author calls it , believe : because an outward profession , which in this case is the immediate end to which penalties are directed , and beyond which they do not reach , is no proper means to produce in men consideration , conviction , or believing . what can be more impertinent than to vex and disease people with the use of force , to no purpose ? and that force must needs be to no purpose , which is so apply'd as to leave the end for which it is pretended to be used , without the means which is acknowledg'd necessary for its attainment . that this is so in your way of using force , will easily appear from your hypothesis . you tell us at large in your argument consider'd , that mens lusts hinder them from even impartial consideration and examination of matters in religion , and therefore force is necessary to remove this hindrance . you tell us likewise at large in your letter , that mens corrupt nature and beloved lusts hinder them also from imbracing the true religion , and that force is necessary likewise to remove this obstacle . now in your way of using force , wherein penalties are laid on men till , and no longer than till , they are made outwardly to conform , force is so apply'd , that notwithstanding the intention of the law-maker ( let it be what it will ) neither the obstacle to impartial examination , rising from mens lusts , nor the aversion to imbracing the true religion , rising from mens corrupt nature , can be removed : unless they can be removed without that , which you suppose necessary to their removal . for since a man may conform , without being under the necessity of impartial examining or imbracing on the one hand , or suffering the penalties on the other ; it is unavoidable , that he should neither impartially examine nor imbrace , if penalties are necessary to make him do either ; because penalties , which are the necessary remedies to remove those hindrances , were never apply'd to them ; and so those obstacles not being removed for want of their necessary remedy , must continue on to hinder both examining and imbracing . for penalties cannot be used as a means to any end , or be apply'd to the procuring any action to be done , which a man from his lusts or any other cause , has an aversion to , but by putting them as it were in one scale as a counter-ballance to that aversion , and the action in the other scale , and putting a man under the necessity of choosing the one or the other : where that is not done , the penalty may be avoided , the aversion or obstacle hath nothing to remove it , and so the action must remain undone . so that if penalties be necessary to make men impartially examine and really imbrace ; if penalties are not so laid on men as to make the alternative to be either suffering the penalties or conforming , it is impossible that men , who without penalties would not impartially examine or really imbrace the true religion , should ever do either ; and then i beseech you consider whether penalties , your way apply'd , be impertinent or no. the necessity of penalties is only where there is some inclination or byas in a man , whencesoever arising , that keeps him from doing something in his power , which he cannot be brought to without the inconveniences of some penal infliction . the efficacy of penalties lies in this , that the inconvenience to be suffer'd by the penalties over-ballance the byas or inclination which leans the man the other way , and so removes the obstacle ; and the application of this remedy lies only in puting a man under the necessary choice either of doing the action , or suffering the penalty : so that in what ever case a man has not been put under that necessity , there penalties have never been apply'd to the procuring that action ; for the obstacle or aversion to it , has never had its necessary remedy . perhaps you will say it is not absolutely impertinent , because it may possibly do some service indirectly and at a distance , and be the occasion that some may consider and imbrace . if whatever may by accident contribute to any end , may be used not impertinently as a means to that end , nothing that i know can be impertinent ; and a penalty of d. a time laid on them for being drunk , may be said , to be a pertinent means , to make men cartesians , or conformists : because it may indirectly and at a distance do some service , by being an occasion to make some men consider their mispending their time ; whereby it may happen that one may betake himself to the study of philosophy , where he may meet with arguments proper and fit to convince him of the truth of that philosophy ; as another betaking himself to the study of divinity , may consider arguments proper and fit to make him ( whether it be in england , holland or denmark ) of the national profession , which he was not of before . just thus , and no otherwise , does d. a sunday , or any other penalty laid on non-conformity , make men study and imbrace the true religion ; and whatever you will call the service it does , direct or indirect , near or at a distance , 't is plain it produces that effect , and conduces to that end meerly by accident ; and therefore must be allow'd to be impertinent to be used to that purpose . that your way of using force in matters of religion , even in a country where the magistrate's is of the true religion , is absolutely impertinent ; i shall further shew you from your own positions . here in the entrance give me leave to observe to you , that you confound two things very different , viz. your way of applying force , and the end for which you pretend you use it . and this perhaps may be it which contributes to cast that mist about your eyes , that you always return to the same place , and stick to the same gross mistake . for here you say , force , your way applied , i. e. to bring men to imbrace the truth which must save them : but , sir , to bring men to imbrace the truth , is not your way of applying force , but the end for which you pretend it is apply'd . your way is to punish men ( as you say ) moderately for being dissenters from the national religion ; this is your way of using force . now if in this way of using it , force does service meerly by accident , you will then , i suppose , allow it to be absolutely impertinent . for you say , if by doing service by accident , i mean doing it but seldom , and beside the intention of the agent , you assure me , that it is not the thing you mean when you say force may indirectly , and at a distance , do some service . for in that use of force , which you defend , the effect is both intended by him that uses it , and withal , you doubt not , so often attain'd , as abundantly to manifest the vsefulness of it . whereby 't is plain the two marks , whereby you distinguish'd your indirect and at a distance usefulness , from that which is by accident , are that , that by accident does service but seldom , and besides the intention of the agent , but yours the contrary . first , as to the intention , you tell us , in the use of force , which you defend , the effect is intended by him that uses it ; that is , those who made laws to punish nonconformists , designed those penalties to make all men , under their power , consider so as to be convinced of , and imbrace the truths that should save them . if one should ask you how you knew it to be their intention , can you say they ever told you so ? if they did not , then so far you and ●…know their ●…ions alike . did they , ever say so in those laws ? nor that neither . those vers'd then in the interpretations of laws , will tell you nothing can be known to be the intention of the law-makers in any law , of which the law is wholly silent : that way then you can not know it to have been their intention , if the law says nothing of it . whatever was the intention of former law-makers , if you had read with attention the last act of uniformity of car. . printed before the common-prayer book , i conclude you would have been better satisfied about the intention of the then law-makers in that law ; sor i think nothing can be plainer to any one who will look into that statute , than that their only end in that law was , what they have expressed in these words , and to the end that vniformity in the publick worship of god ( which is so much desired ) may be speedily effected ; which was driven with such speed , that if all concern'd had opportunity to get and peruse the then establish'd liturgy , 't is certain they had not over-much time seriously and deliberately to consider of all the parts of it before the day set for the use of it . but you think , they ought to have intended , and therefore they did : and i think they neither ought , nor could , in making those laws , intend so unpracticable a thing ; and therefore they did not . which being as certain a way of knowledg as yours , if you know it by that way ; 't is possible you and i may at the same time know contraries . but you know it , by their having provided sufficient means of instruction for all under their care in the true religion ; ( of this sufficient means , we have something to say in another place . ) penalties laid expresly on one fault , have no evidence that they were de-signed to mend another , though there are sufficient means provided of mending it , if men would make a sufficient use of them ; unless those two faults are so connected , as one cannot be mended without the other . now if men cannot conform , without so considering as to be convinced of , and embrace the truth that must save them , you may know that penalties laid on nonconformity , were intended to make men so consider : but if men may conform ; without so considering , one cannot know nor conclude those penalties were intended to make men so consider , whatever provision there is made of means of instruction . but you will say , it is evident that penalties on nonconformists , were intended to make them use these means of instruction . because they are intended for the bringing men to church , the place of instruction , that they are intended to bring men to church , the place of preaching , that i grant , but that those penalties that are laid on men , for not coming to church , can be known thereby to be intended to make men so consider , as to be convinced and imbrace the true religion , that i deny : and it is utterly impossible it should be so , if what you say be true , where you tell us , that the magistrates concern themselves for compliance or conformity , only as the fruit of their conviction . if therefore the magistrates are concerned for mens conformity , only as the fruit of their conviction , and coming to church be that conformity ; coming to church cannot be intended as a means of their conviction : unless it be intended they should be convinc'd , before they are convinc'd . but to shew you , that you cannot pretend the penalty of laws for conformity , to proceed from a care of the souls of all under the magistrates power , and so to be intended , to make them all consider , in any sense . can you , or any one know , or suppose , that penalties which are laid by the law on nonconformity , are intended to make all men consider ; where 't is known that a great number , under the magistrates power , are dispensed with , and privileged from those penalties ? how many , omitting the jews , are there ; for example , in the king of england's dominions , under his care and power , of the walloon , and french church ; to whom force is never apply'd , and they live in security from it ? how many pagans are there in the plantations , many whereof born in his dominions , of whom there was never any care taken , that they should so much as come to church , or be in the least instructed in the christian religion ? and yet must we believe , or can you pretend , that the magistrates use of force , against nonconformists ; is to make all his subjects consider , so as to be convinc'd of , and imbrace the truth that must save them ? if you say , in your way you mean no such indulgence : i answer , the question is not of yours but the magistrates intention ; though what your intention is , who would have the want of consideration , or knowledg , in conformists , exempt from force , is visible enough . again , those penalties cannot be supposed , to be intended to make men consider ; which are laid on those , who have , or may have already considered : and such you must grant to be the penalties laid in england , on nonconformists ; unless you will deny , that any nonconformist has , or can consider , so as to be convinced , or believe , and imbrace the truth that must save him . so that you cannot vouch the intention of the magistrate , where his laws say nothing ; much less affirm , that force is intended to produce a certain end in all his subjects , which is not applied to them all , and is applied to some who have attained that end already : unless you have a privilege to affirm , against all appearance whatsoever may serve your cause . but to learn some moderation in this , i shall send you to my pagans and mahumetans . for whatever charitable wishes magistrates may sometimes have in their thoughts ( which i meddle not with ) ; no body can say , that in making the laws , or in the use of force , we are speaking of , they intended to m●…ke men consider and examine , so as to be convinced of , and heartily to imbrace the truth , that must save them , but he that gives himself the liberty to say any thing . the service that force does , indirectly , and at a distance ; you tell us in the following page , is to make people apply th●…mselves to the use of those means , and helps , which are proper to make them what they are designed to be . in the case before us , what are men designed to be ? holy believers of the gospel in this world , without which no salvation , no seeing of god in the next . let us see now , whether force , your way applied , can be suted to such a design , and so intended for that end. you hold , that all out of the national church , where the religion of the national church is true , should be punished , and ought to have force used to them : and again , you grant that those who are in the communion of the national church , ought not to be punished , or be under the stroke of force ; nor indeed in your way can they . if now the effect be to prevail with men , to consider as they ought , so that they may become what they are designed to be : how can any one think , that you , and they who use force thus , intend , in the use of it , that men should really be christians , both in perswasion and practice , without which there is no salvation ; if they leave off force before they have attained that effect ? or how can it be imagined , that they intend any thing but conformity , by their use of force ; if they leave off the use of it as soon as men conform ? unless you will say that an outward conformity to the national church , whose religion is the true religion , is such an imbracing of the truth as is sufficient to salvation ? or that an outward profession of the christian religion , is the same with being really a christian ; which possibly you will not be very forward to do , when you recollect , what you meet with in the sermons , and printed discourses , of divines of the church of england , concerning the ignorance and irreligion of conformists themselves . for penalties can never be thought , by any one ( but he that can think against common sense , and what he pleases ) to be intended for any end ; which by that constitution , and law whereby they are imposed , are to cease before that end be attained . and will you say , that all who are conformable , have so well considered , that they believe , and heartily imbrace the truths of the gospel , that must save them : when perhaps it will be found that a great many conformists , do not so much as understand them ? but the ignorance or irreligiousness to be found amongst consormists , which your way of talking forces me in some places to take notice of , let me here tell you once for all i lay not the blame of upon conformity , but upon your use of force to make men conform . for whatever the religion be , true or false , it is natural for force , and penalty , so applied , to bring the irreligious , and those who are careless , and unconcerned for the true , into the national profession : but whether it be fitter for such to be kept out , rather than , by force , to be driven into the communion of any church , and owned as members of it , those who have a due care and respect for truly religious and pious conformists , were best consider . but farther , if , as you say , the opposition to the true religion , lies only in mens lusts ; it having light and strength enough ( were it not for that ) to prevail : and it is upon that account only that force is necessary , there is no necessity at all to use force on men , only till they conform , and no farther : since i think , you will not deny , but that the corruption of humane nature is as great in consormists , as in nonconformists ; in the professors of , as in the dissenters from , the national religion . and therefore either force was not necessary before , or else it is necessary still , after men are conformists : unless you will say , that it is harder for a man to be a professor , than a christian indeed : and that the true religion , by its own light and strength , can , without the help of force , prevail over a man's lusts , and the corruption of his nature ; but it has need of the help of force , to make him a conformist , and an outward professor . and so much for the effect , which is intended by him that uses it in that use of force , which you defend . the other argument you bring to shew , that your indirect and at a distance vsefulness of force your way apply'd , is not by accident , is the frequent success of it . which i think is not the true mark of what is not by accident : for an effect may not be by accident , though it has never been produced but once ; and is certainly as little by accident the first time , as when it has been produced a thousand times . that then , by which any thing is excused from being by accident , is not the frequency of the event , but that whereon the frequency of the event depends , when frequent trials are made ; and that is the proper , natural , direct efficacy of the cause or means , which produces the effect . as in the case before us , penalties are the cause or means used to produce an end ; the proper and immediate effect of penalties , is to produce some pain or inconvenience ; and the natural effect of that , is to make a man , who naturally flies from all pain or inconvenience , to endeavour to avoid it ; whereby it naturally and directly works upon the will of man , by proposing to him this unavoidable choice , of doing some action , or enduring the pain or inconvenience of the penalty annexed to its omission . when the pain of doing the action is outweigh'd in the sense of him that lies under the penalty , the pain , that by the law is annex'd to the omission , operates upon his will , as naturally , as thirteen ounces in one scale , laid against twelve ounces in the other , incline the ballance , and bring it down on that side . and this is by a direct and natural efficacy , wherein there is nothing of chance . let us see this how far this will go in your indirect and at a distance usefulness . in your method , the action , you propose to be done , is considering , or a severe and impartial examining matters of religion , which you tell us , men by their great negligence or aversion are kept from doing . what now is a proper means to produce this ? penalties , without which , you tell us , it will not be done . how now is it apply'd in your method ? conformity , and mens neglect or aversion to it , is laid in one scale , and the penalty join'd to the omission of it , laid in the other ; and in this case , if the inconvenience of the penalty overweighs the pains of , or aversion to conformity , it does by a direct and natural efficacy produce conformity : but if it produces a severe and impartial examination , that is meerly by accident ; because the inconvenience of the penalty is not laid against mens aversion or backwardness to examine impartially , as a counter-ballance to that , but against their aversion or backwardness to conform ; and so whatever it does , indirectly and at a distance , 't is certain its making men sev●…rely and impartially examine ( if ever that happens ) is as much by accident , as it would be by accident , if a piece of lead laid in one scale as a counterpoise to feathers in the opposite scale , should move or weigh done gold that was put in the scale of another pair of ballances , which had no counterpoise laid against it . unless you will say there is a necessary connection between conformity , and a severe and impartial examination . but you will say perhaps , that though it be not possible that penalties should produce examination but by mere accident , because examination has no necessary connection with conformity , or the profession of any religion ; yet since there are some who will not take up any profession without a severe and impartial examination , penalties for nonconformity will , by a direct and natural efficacy , produce examination in all such . to which i answer , that those are ( if we may believe what you say ) so very few , that this your remedy , which you put into the magistrate's hands to bring all his subjects to consider and examine , will not work upon one in a thousand ; nay , it can work on none at all , to make them severely and impa●…tially examine , but meerly by accident . for if they are men , whom a slight and partial examination ( which upon your principles you must say ) sufficed to make non-conformists , a slight and partial examination will as well serve to make them conformists ; and so penalties laid on them to make them conform , can only by accident produce a severe and impartial examination , in such men , who can take up the profession of any religion without a severe and impartial examination , no more than it can otherwise than by accident , produce any examination in those who , without any examination , can take up the profession of any religion . and in those very few , who take not up the profession of any religion without a severe and impartial examination , that penalties can do any service , to bring them either to the truth that must save them , or so much as to outward conformity , but meerly by accident , that also is evident . because all such in a country , where they dissent from the national religion , must necessarily have severely and impartially examin'd already , or else you destroy the supposition this argument is built on , viz. that they are men who do severely and impartially examine before they choos●… . and if you lay , or continue your penalties on men , that have so examin'd , 't is plain you use them instead of reasons and arguments ; in which use of them , you confess they have no proper efficacy , and therefore if they do any service , it is meerly by accident . but now let us see the success you boast of , and for that you tell us , that you doubt not but it is so often attain'd , as abundantly to manifest the vsefulness of it . you speak here of it , as a thing tried , and so known , that you doubt not . pray tell us where your moderate ( for great ones you acknowledg to do harm , and to be useless ) penalties have been used , with such success , that we may be past doubt too . if you can shew no such place , do you not vouch experience where you have none ? and shew a willingness not to doubt , where you have no assurance ? in all countries , where any force is used to bring men to the profession of the national religion , and to outward conformity , it is not to be doubted , but that force joining with their natural corruption , in bringing them into the way of preferment , countenance , protection , ease and impunity , should easily draw in all the loose and careless in matters of religion , which are every-where the far greater number : but is it those you count upon , and will you produce them as examples of what force has done to make men consider , study and imbrace the true religion ? did the penalties laid on nonconformity make you consider , so as to study , be convinced , and imbrace the true religion ? or can you give an instance of any one , in whom it produced this effect ? if you cannot , you will have some reason to doubt of what you have said , and not to be so consident that the effect you talk of , is so often attain'd . not that i deny , but that god may sometimes have made these punishments the occasions to men of setting themselves seriously on considering religion , and thence they may have come into the national religion upon a real conviction : but the instances of it i believe to be so few , that you will have reason to remember your own words , where you speak of such things as , any way , at any time , upon any person , by any accident , may be useful towards the promoting of true religion : if men should thence take occasion to apply such things generally , who see●… not that , however they might chance to hit right in some few cases , yet upon the whole matter , they would certainly do a great deal more harm than good . you and i know a country wherein , not long since , greater severities were used than you pretend to approve of . were there not for all that , great numbers of several professions stood out , who by your rule , ought now to have your moderate penalties tried upon them ? and can you think less degrees of force can work , and often , as you say , prevail where greater could not ? but perhaps they might prevail on many of those to return , who having been brought into the communion of the church by former penal laws , have now upon the relaxation left it again . a manifest demonstration , ●…s it not ? that their compliance was the fruit of their conviction ; and that the magistrate was concern'd for their compliance only as the fruit of their conviction . when they as soon as any relaxation of those laws took off the penalties , left again the communion of the national church ? for the lessening the number of conformists , is , i suppose , one of those things which you say your eyes cannot but see at this time ; and which you , with concern , impute to the late relaxation . a plain evidence how presumable it is , even in your own opinion , that those who conform do it upon real conviction . to conclude , these proofs , though i do not pretend to bring as good as the thing will admit , will serve my turn to shew , that force , is impertinent ; since by your own confession it has no direct efficacy to convince men , and by its being indirect and at a distance useful , is not at all distinguish'd from being barely so by accident : since you can neither prove it to be intended for that end , nor frequently to succeed , which are the two marks whereby you put a difference between indirect and at a distance , and by accident . this , i say , is enough to shew what the author said , is true , that the use of force is wholly impertinent . which , whatever other●… do , you upon another reason , must be forced to allow . you profess your self of the church of england , and , if i may guess are so far of it , as to have subscrib'd the articles , which if you have done , and assented to what you subscribed , you must necessarily allow that all force , used for the bringing men to the true religion , is absolutely impertinent ; for that must be absolutely impertinent to be used as a means , which can contribute nothing at all to the end for which it is used . the end here , is to make a man a true christian , that he may be saved ; and he is then , and then only , a true christian , and in the way of salvation , when he believes , and with sincerity obeys the gospel . by the th article of the church of england , you hold , that works done before the grace of christ , and the inspiration of his spirit , are not pleasing to god ; for as much as they spring not of faith in jesus christ , neither do they make men meet to receive grace , ( or as the school - authors say ) deserve grace of congruity ; yea rather , for that they are not done as god has willed and commanded them to be done , we doubt not but they have the nature of sin . now if it be impertinent to use force to make a man do more than he can , and a man can do nothing to procure grace , unless sin can procure it ; and without grace , a man cannot b●…live , or live so as to be a true christian , it is certainly wholly impertinent to use force to bring a man to be truly a christian. to hear and consider , is in mens power , you will say , and to that force may be pertinent ; i grant to make men hear , but not to make them consider in your sense , which you tell us , is to consider so as to imbrace ; if you mean by imbracing any thing but outward conformity . and that according to your article , contributes nothing to the attaining of grace ; because without grace , your article says it is a sin ; and to conform to , and outwardly profess a religion which a man does not understand and heartily believe , every one , i think , judges to be a sin , and no fit means to procure the grace of god. but you tell us , that god denies his grace to none who seriously ask it . if that be so , methinks force should most properly and pertinently be used to make men seriously pray to god for grace . but how , i beseech you , will this stand with your th article ? for if you mean by seriously , so as will make his seeking acceptable to god , that cannot be , because he is supposed yet to want grace which alone can make it acceptable : and if his asking has the nature of sin , as in the article you do not doubt but it has , can you expect that sinning should procure the grace of god ? you will i fear here , without some great help in a very nice distinction from the school-authors , be forced either to renounce your article in the plain sense of it , and so become a dissenter from the church of england , or else acknowledg force to be wholly impertinent to the business of true religion and salvation . another reason i gave against the vsefulness of force in matters of religion , was , because the magistrates of the world , being few of them in the right-way , ( not one of ten , take which side you will ) perhaps not one of an hundred , being of the true religion : 't is likely your indirect way of using force would do an hundred , or at least ten times as much harm as good. to which you reply , which would have been to the purpose , if you had asserted , that every magistrate may use force , your indirect way ( or any way ) to bring men to his own religion , whatever that be . but if you assert no such thing , ( as no man you think but an atheist will assert it ) then this is quite beside the business . i think i have proved , that if magistrates of the true religion may use force to bring men to their religion , every magistrate may use force to bring men to his own religion , when he thinks it the true : and then do you look where the atheism will light . in the next paragraph , having quoted these following words of mine ; where i say , under another pretence , you put into the magistrate's hands as much power to force men to his religion , as any the openest persecutors can pretend to . i ask what difference is there between punishing them to bring them to mass , and punishing them to bring them to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them that they ought to go to mass ? you reply ; a question which you shall then think your self obliged to answer , when i have produced those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince men that they ought to go to mass. but if you had not omitted the or immediately preceding lines , ( an art to serve a good cause , which puts me in mind of my pagans and mahumetans ) the reader would have seen that your reply was nothing at all to my argument : my words were these . especially , if you consider , that as the magistrate will certainly use it [ force ] to force men to hearken to the proper ministers of his religion , let it be what it will ; so you having set no time nor bounds to this consideration of arguments and reasons short of being convinced , you under another , &c. my argument is to shew of what advantage force , your way apply'd , is like to be to the true religion , since it puts as much force into the magistrate's hands as the openest persecutors can pretend to , which the magistrates of wrong perswasions may and will use as well as those of the true ; because your way sets no other bounds to considering short of complying . and then i ask , what difference there is between punishing you to bring you to mass , or punishing you to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and s●…fficient to convince you that you ought to go to mass ? to which you r●…ply . that it is a question you shall then think your self oblig'd to answer when i have produced those reasons and arguments that are pro●…er and sufficient to convince men that they ought to go to mass. whereas , the objection is the same , wh●…ther there be or be not , r●…asons and arguments proper to convince men , that they ●…t to go to mass ; for men m●…st be pu●…h on till they have so co●…dered as to comply : and what differnce is there then b●…n punishing men to bring them to mass , and punishing 〈◊〉 to make them consider so as to go to mass ? but though i pre●…d not to produce any reasons and arguments proper and convi●…e to convince you or all men , that they ought to go to mass ; yet do you think there are none proper and sufficient to convince any men ? and that all the papists in th●… world go to mass without believing it their duty ? and whosoever believes it to be his duty , does it upon reasons and arguments , proper and sufficient to convince him ( though perhaps not to convince an other ) that it is so , or else i imagine he would never believe it at all . what think you of those great numbers of japaneses , that resisted all sorts of torments , even to death it self , for the romish religion ? and had you been in france some years since , who knows but the arguments the k. of france produced might have been proper and sufficient to have convinced you that you ought to go to mass ? i do not by this , think you less confident of the truth of your religion , than you profess to be . but arguments set on with force , have a strange efficacy upon humane frailty ; and he must be well assured of his own strength , who can peremptorily affirm , he is sure he should have stood , what above a million of people sunk under : amongst which , 't is great confidence to say , there was not one so well perswaded of the truth of his religion , as you are of yours ; though some of them gave great proofs of their perswasion in their sufferings for it . but what the necessary method of force may be able to do , to bring any one , in your sense , to any r●…ligion , i. e. to an outward profession of it , he that thinks himself secure against , must have a greater assurance of himself , than the weakness of decayed and depraved nature will well allow . if you have any spell against the force of arguments , driven with penalties and punishments , you will do well to teach it the world ; for it is the hard luck of well-meaning people to be often misled by them , and even the confident themselves have not seldom fallen under them , and betrayed their weakness . to my demanding , if you meant reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince men of the truth , why did you not say so ? you reply , as if it were possible for any man that reads your answer , to think otherwise . whoever reads that passage in your a. p. . cannot possibly think you meant to speak out , and possibly you found some difficulty to add any thing to your words ( which are these , force used to bring men to consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them ) that might determine their sense . for if you had said , to convince them of truth ; then the magistrate must have made laws , and used force to make men search after truth in general , and that would not have served your turn : if you had said to convince them of the truth of the magistrate's religion , that would too manifestly have put the power in every magistrate's hands , which you tell us , none but an atheist will say . if you had said , to convince them of the truth of your religion , that had looked too ridiculous to be owned , though it were the thing you meant ; and therefore in this strait , where nothing you could say , would well sit your purpose , you wisely choose to leave the sense imperfect , and name nothing they were to be convinced of , but leave it to be collected by your reader out of your discourse , rather than add three words to make it good grammar , as well as intelligible sense . to my saying , that if you pretend it must be arguments to convince men of the truth , it would in this case do you little service ; because the mass in france is as much suppos'd the truth , as the liturgy here . you reply , so that it seems , that in your opinion , whatsoever is suppos'd the truth , is the truth , for otherwise this reason of mine is none at all . if , in my opinion , the supposition of truth authorizes the magistrate to use the same means to bring men to it , as if it were true , my argument will hold good , without taking all to be true which some men suppose true . according to this answer of yours , to suppose or believe his religion the true , is not enough to authorize the mastrate to use force , he must know , i. e. be infallibly certain , that his is the true religion . we will for once suppose you our magistrate , with force promoting our national religion . i will not ask you , whether you know that all required of conformists , is necessary to salvation : but will suppose one of my pagans asking you , whether you know christianity to be the true religion ? if you say , yes , he will ask you how you know it ? and no doubt , but you will give the answer whereby our saviour proved his mission , john v. . that the works which our saviour did bear witness of him , that the father sent him . the miracles that christ did , are a proof of his being sent from god , and so his religion the true religion . but then you will be asked again , whether you know that he did those miracles , as well as those who saw them done ? if you answer , yes ; then it is plain that miracles are not yet withdrawn , but do still accompany the christian religion with all the efficacy and evidence , that they had upon the eye-witnesses of them , and then upon your own grounds , there will be no necessity of the magistrate's assistance , miracles still supplying the want of it . if you answer , that matter of fact done out of your sight , at such a distance of time and place , cannot be known to you as certainly , as it was to the eye-witnesses of it , but that you upon very good grounds firmly believe it ; you are then come to believing , that yours is the true religion , and if that be sufficient to authorize you to use force , it will authorize any other magistrate of any other religion to use force also . for whoever believes any thing , takes it to be true , and as he thinks upon good grounds ; and those often who believe on the weakest grounds , have the strongest confidence : and thus all magistrates who believe their religion to be true , will be obliged to use force to promote it , as if it were the true . to my saying that the usefulness of force , your way apply'd , amounts to no more but this , that it is not impossible but that it may be useful . you reply , i leave it to be judg'd by what has been said ; and i leave it to you your self to judg : only , that you may not forget , i shall here remind you in short of some of the r●…sons i have to say so : . you grant that force has no direct e●…cacy to bring men to imbrace the truth . . you distinguish the indirect and at a distance vsefulness of your force , from that which is barely by accident ; by these two marks , viz. st . that punishment on dissenters for nonconformity , is , by those that use it , intended to make men consider : and d . that your moderate punishments , by experience , are found often successful ; and yours having neither of these marks , it must be concluded to be useful only by accident : and such an usefulness , as i said , one cannot deny , to auricular confession , doing of penance , going pilgrimages to saints , and what not ? yet our church does not think fit to ufe them ; though it cannot be deny'd but they may have some of your indirect and at a distance vsefulness ; that is , perhaps may do some se●…viceindirectly and by accident . if the intention of those that use them , and the success they will tell you they find in the use of them , be a proof of doing service more than by accident ; that cannot be deny'd to them more than to penalties , your way applied . to which , let me add , that niceness and difficulty there is , to hit that just degree of force ; which according to your hypothesis , must be neither so much as to do harm , nor so little as to be ineffectual ; for you your self cannot determine it , makes its usefulness yet more uncertain and accidential . and after all , let its efficacy to work upon mens minds , be what it will , great or little , it being sure to be imploid ten , or possibly , an hundred times to bring men to error , for once that it is imploid to bring men to the truth ; and where it chances to be imploid , on the side of truth , it being liable to make an hundred , or perhaps a thousand outward conformists , for one true and sincere convert ; i leave it also to be judg'd what usefulness it is like to be of . to shew the usefulness of force , your way apply'd , i said , where the law punish'd dissenters without telling them it is to make them consider , they may through ignorance and oversight neglect to do it . your answer is , but where the law provides sufficient means of instruction for all , as well as punishment for dissentors , it is so plain to all concern'd , that the punishment is intended to make them consider , that you see no danger of mens neglecting to do it , through ignorance and oversight . i hope you mean by consider , so to consider as not only to imbrace in an outward profession ( for then all you say is but a poor fallacy , for such a considering amounts to no more but bare outward conformity ; ) but so to consider , study and examine matters of religion , as really to imbrace , what one is convinced to be the true , with faith and obedience . if it be so plain and easy to understand , that a law , that speaks nothing of it , should yet be intended to make men consider , search and study , to sind out the truth that must save them ; i wish you had shew'd us this plainness . for i confess many of all degrees , that i have purposely asked about it , did not ever see , or so much as dream , that the act of uniformity , or against conventicles , or the penalties in either of them , were ever intended to make men seriously study religion , and make it their business to find the truth which must save them ; but barely to make men conform . but perhaps you have met with handicrafts-men , and country-farmers , maid-servants , and day-labourers , who have quicker understandings , and reason better about the intention of the law , for these as well as others are concern'd . if you have not , 't is to be fear'd , your saying it is so plain , that you see no danger of mens neglecting to do it , through ignorance or oversight , is more for its serving your purpose , than from any experience you have , that it is so . when you will enquire into this matter , you will , i guess , find the people so ignorant amidst that great plainness you speak of , that not one of twenty of any degree , amongst conformists or nonconformists , ever understood the penalty of d. a sunday , or any other of our penal laws against nonconformity , to be intended to set men upon studying the true religion , and impartially examining what is necessary to salvation . and if you would come to hudibras's decision , i believe he would have a good wager of it , who should give you a guinea for each one who had thought so , and receive but a shilling for every one who had not . indeed you do not say , it is plain every-where , but only where the law provides sufficient means of instruction for all , as well as punishments for dissenters . from whence , i think it will follow , that that contributes nothing to make it plain , or else that the law has not provided sufficient means of instruction in england , where so very few find this to be so plain . if by this sufficient provision of means of instruction for all ; you mean , persons maintain'd at the publick charge to preach , and officiate in the publick exercise of the national religion ; i suppose you needed not this restriction , there being sew places which have an establish'd national religion , where there is not such means of instruction provided : if you intend any other means of instruction , i know none the law has provided in england but the articles , the liturgy , and the scripture , and how either of them by it self , or these altogether , with a national clergy , make it plain , that the penalties laid on nonconformity , are intended to make men consider , study , and impartially examine matters of religion , you would do well to shew . for magistrates usually know ( and therefore make their laws accordingly ) that the people seldom carry either their interpretation or practice beyond what the express letter of the law requires of them . you would do well also to shew , that a sufficient provision of means of instruction , cannot but be understood to require an effectual use of them , which the law that makes that provision says nothing of . but on the contrary , contents it self with something very short of it : for conformity or coming to church , is at least as far from considering , studying and impartially examining matters of religion , so as to imbrace the truth upon conviction and with an obedient heart , as being present at a discourse concerning mathematicks , and studying mathematicks , so as to become a knowing mathematician , are different one from the other . people generally think they have done their duties abundantly , if they have been at church , whether they mind any thing done there or no : this they call serving of god , as if it were their whole duty ; so backward are they to understand more , though it be plain the law of god expresly requires more . but that they have fully satisfied the law of the land , no body doubts ; nor is it easy to answer what was are ply'd to me on this occasion , viz. if the magistrate intended any thing more in those laws but consormity , would he not have said it ? to which 〈◊〉 me add , if the magistrate intended conformity as the fruit of conviction , would he not have taken some care to have them instructed before they conformed , and examin'd when they did ? but 't is presumable their ignorance , corruption and lusts , all drop off in the church-porch , and that they become perfectly good christians as soon as they have taken 〈◊〉 seats in the church . if there be any whom your example or writing hath inspir'd with a●…uteness enough to sind out this ; i suspect the vulgar who have scarce time and thought enough to make inferences from the law , which scarce one or ten of them ever so much as reads , or perhaps under●…ands when read , are still , and will be ignorant of it : and those who have the time and abilities to argue about it , will find reason to think , that those penalties were not intended to m●…ke men examine the doctrine and ceremonies of religion ; since those who should examine , are prohibited by those very laws , to follow their own judgments , ( which is the very end and use of examination ) if they at all differ from the religion establish'd by law. nor can it appear so plain to all concern'd , that the punishment is intended to make them consider and examine , when they see the punishments you say are to make people consider , spare those who consider and examine matters of religion , as little as any of the most ignorant and careless dissenters . to my saying , some dissenters may have consider'd already , and then force imploid upon them must needs be useless ; unless you can think it useful to punish a man to make him do that which he has done already . you reply , no man who rejects truth necessary to his salvation , has consider'd already as he ought to consider . the words as he ought , are not , as i take it in the question : and so your answer is , no man who rejects the truth necessary to his salvation , hath consider'd , study'd or examin'd matters of religion . but we will let that go : and yet with that allowance , your answer will be nothing to the purpose , unless you will dare to say , that all dissenters reject truth necessary to salvation . for without that supposition , that all dissenters reject truth necessary to salvation , the argument and answer will stand thus . it may be useless to punish all dissenters to make them consider , because some of them may have consider'd already . to which , the answer is , yes , some of them may have consider'd already , but those who reject truth necessary to their salvation , have not consider'd as they ought . i said , the greatest part of mankind , being not able to discern betwixt truth and falshood , that depends upon long and many proofs , and remote consequences ; nor ha●…ing ability enough to discover the false grounds , and resist the captious and fallacious arguments of learned men versed in controversies , are so much more expos'd , by the force , which is used to make them hearken to the information and instruction of men appointed to it by the magistrate , or those of his religion , to be led into falshood and error , than they are likely this way to be brought to imbrace the truth which must save them ; by how much the national religions of the world are , beyond comparison , more of them false or erroneous , than such as have god for their author , and truth for their standard . you reply , if the first part of this be true ; then an infallible guide , and implicit faith , are more necessary than ever you thought them . whether you conclude from thence or no , that then there will be a necessity of an infallible guide , and an implicit faith , 't is nevertheless true , that the greatest part of men are unable to discern , as i said , between truth and falshood depending , upon long and many proofs , &c. but whether that will make an infallible guide necessary or no , imposition in matters of religion certainly will : since there can be nothing more absur'd imaginable , than that a man should take upon him to impose on others in matters of their eternal concernment , without being , or so much as pretending to be infallible : for colour it with the name of considering as much as you please , as long as it is to make men consider as they ought , and considering as they ought , is so to consider , as to imbrace ; the using of force to make men consider , and the using of force to make them imbrace any doctrine or opinion , is the same thing : and to shew a difference betwixt imposing an opinion , and using force to make it be imbrac'd , would require such a piece of subtilty , as i heard lately from a learned man out of the pulpit , who told us , that though two things , he named , were all one , yet for distinction's sake , he would divide them . your reason for the necessity of an infallible guide , is , for if the greatest part of mankind be not able to discern betwixt truth and falshood in matters concerning their salvation ( as i must mean if i speak to the purpose ) their condition must needs be very hazardous , if they have not some guide or judg , to whose determination and direction they may securely resign themselves . and therefore they must resign themselves to the determination and direction of the civil magistrate , or be punish'd . here 't is like you will have something again to say to my modesty and conscience , for imputing to you , what you no where say . i grant it , in direct words ; but in effect as plainly as may be . the magistrate may impose sound creeds and decent ceremonies , i. e such as he thinks sit , for what is sound and decent he i hope must be judg , and if he be judg of what is sound and decent , it amounts to no more , but what he thinks sit : and if it be not what he thinks sit , why is one ceremony preferr'd to another ? why one doctrine of the scripture put into the creed and articles , and another as sound left out ? they are truths necessary to salvation . we shall see that in good time , here only i ask , does the magistrate only believe them to be truths and ceremonies necessary to salvation , or does he certainly know them to be so ? if you say he only believes them to be so , and that that is enough to authorize him to impose them , you by your own confession , authorize magistrates to impose what they think necessary for the salvation of their subjects souls ; and so the king of france did what he was obliged to , when he said he would have all his subjects saved , and so fell to dragooning . if you say the magistrate certainly knows them to be necessary to salvation , we are luckily come to an infallible guide . well then , the sound creeds are agreed on ; the confession and liturgy are framed ; the ceremonies pitch'd on ; and the terms of communion thus set up , you have religion establish'd by law : and what now is the subject to do ? he is to conform . no ; he must first consid●…r . who bids him consider ? no body , he may if he pleases , but the law says nothing to him of it : consider or not consider , if he conforms 't is well , and he is approved of , and admitted . he does consider the best he can , but finds some things he does not understand , other things he cannot believe , assent or consent to . what now is to be done with him ? he must either be punished on , or resign himself up to the determination and direction of the civil magistrate , which till you can ●…ind a better name for it , we will call implicit faith. and thus you have provided a remedy for the hazardous condition of weak understandings , in that which you suppose necessary in the case , viz. an infallible guide and implicit faith , in matters ●…oncerning mens salvation . but you say , for your part you know of no such guide of god's appointing . let that be your rule , and the magistrate with his co-active power , will be left out too . you think there is no need of any such , because notwithstanding the long and many proofs and remote consequences , the false grounds , and the captious and fallacious arguments of learned men vers'd in controversies , with which i ( as well as those of the roman communion ) endeavour to amuse you ; through the goodness of god the truth which is necessary to salvation , lies so obvious and exposed to all that sin●…erely and diligently seek it , that no such person shall ever fail of attaining the knowledg of it . this then is your answer , that truths necessary to salvation are obvious ; so that those who seek them sincerely and diligently , are not in danger to be misled or expos'd in those to error , by the weakness of their understandings . this will be a good answer to what i objected from the danger most are in to be led into error , by the magistrate's adding force to the arguments for their national establish'd religions ; when you have shewn , that nothing is wont to be impos'd in national religions , but what is necessary to salvation ; or which will a little better accommodate your hypothesis , when you can shew that nothing is impos'd , or requir'd for communion with the church of england , but what is necessary to salvation ; and consequently , is very easy and obvious to be known , and distinguish'd from falshood . and indeed , besides what you say here , upon your hypothesis , that force is lawful only , because it is necessary to bring men to salvation , it cannot be lawful to use it , to bring men to any thing , but what is absolutely necessary to salvation . for if the lawfulness of force be only from the need men have of it to bring them to salvation , it cannot lawfully be used , to bring men to that , which they do not need , or is not necessary , to their salvation ; for in such an application of it , it is not needful to their salvation . can you therefore say , that there is nothing required to be believ'd and profess'd in the church of england , but what lies so obvious and expos'd to all that sincerely and diligently seek it , that no such person shall ever fail of attaining the knowledg of it ? what think you of st. athanasius's c●…eed ? is the sense of that so obvious and expos'd to every one who seeks it , which so many learned men have explain'd so different ways , and which yet a great many profess they cannot understand ? or is it necessary to your or my salvation , that you or i should believe and pronounce all those damn'd who do not believe that creed , i. e. every proposition in it ? which i fear would extend to not a few of the church of england , unless we can think that people believe , i. e. assent to the truth of propositions , they do not at all understand . if ever you were acquainted with a country-parish , you must needs have a strange opinion of them , if you think all the plough-men and milk-maids at church , understood all the propositions in athanasius's creed ; 't is more truly , than i should be apt to think of any one of them , and yet i cannot hence believe my self authorized to judg or pronounce them all damn'd : 't is too bold an intrenching on the prerogative of the almighty , to their own master they stand or fall . the doctrine of original sin , is that which is profess'd , and must be owned by the members of the church of england , as is evident from the articles , and several passages in the liturgy : and yet i ask you , whether this be so obvious and expos'd to all that diligently and sincerely seek the truth , that one who is in the communion of the church of england , sincerely seeking the truth , may not raise to himself such difficulties concerning the doctrine of original sin as may puzzle him , though he be a man of study ; and whether he may not push his enquiries so far , as to be stagger'd in his opinion . if you grant me this , as i am apt to think you will , then i enquire whether it be not true ( notwithstanding what you say concerning the plainness and obviousness of truths necessary to salvation ) that a great part of mankind may not be able to discern between truth , and falshood , in several points , which are thought so far to concern their salvation , as to be made necessary parts of the national religion ? if you say it may be so , then i have nothing farther to enquire ; but shall only advise you not to be so severe hereafter in your censure of mr. reynolds , as you are , where you tell me , that the famous instance i give of the two reynolds's is not of any moment to prove the contrary ; unless i can undertake , that he that erred was as sincere in his enquiry after that truth , as i suppose him able to examine and judg . you will , i suppose , be more charitable another time , when you have consider'd , that neither sincerity , nor freedom from error , even in the establish'd doctrines of their own church , is the privilege of those who join themselves in outward profession to any national church whatsoever . and it is not impossible , that one who has subscribed the articles , may yet make it a question , whether it may b●… truly said that god imputes the first sin of adam to his posterity ? &c. but we are apt to be so fond of our own opinions , and almost infallibility , that we will not allow them to be sincere , who quit our communion ; whilst at the same time , we tell the world , it is presumable , that all who imbrace it , do it sincerely , and upon conviction ; though we cannot but know many of them to be but loose , inconsiderate , and ignorant people . this is all the reason you have , when you speak of the reynolds's , to suspect one of the brothers more than the other : and to think , that mr. chillingworth had not as much sincerity when he quitted , as when he return'd to the church of england , is a partiality , which nothing can justify without pretending to infallibility . to shew that you do not fancy your force to be useful , but that you judg so upon just and sufficient grounds , you tell us , the strong probability of its success is grounded upon the consideration of humane nature , and the general temper of mankind , apt to be ●…rought upon by the method you speak of , and upon the indisputable att●…station of experience . the consideration of humane nature , and the general temper of mankind , will teach one this , that men are apt , in things within their power , to be wrought upon by force , and the more wrought upon , the greater the force or punishments are : so that where moderate penalties will not work , great severities will. which consideration of humane nature , if it be a just ground to judg any force useful , will i fear necessarily carry you , in your judgment , to severities beyond the moderate penalties , so often mention'd in your system , upon a strong probability of the success of greater punishment , where less would not prevail . but if to consider so as you require , i. e. so as to imbrace , and believe , be not in their power , then no force at all , great or little , is or can be useful . you must therefore ( consider it which way you will ) either renounce all force as useful , or pull off your mask , and own all the severities of the cruellest perseentors . the other reason of your iudging force to be useful , you say , is grounded on the indisputable att●…station of experience . pray tell us where you have this attestation of experience for your moderate , which is the only useful force : name the country where true religion or sound christianity has been nationally receiv'd , and establish'd by moderate penal laws , that the observing persons you appeal to , may know where to imploy their observation : tell us how long it was t●…ied , and what was the su●…cess of it ? and where there has been the relaxation of such moderate penal laws , the fruits whereof have continually b●…en epicurism and atheism ? till you do this , i fear , that all the world will think , there is a more indisputable attestation of experience for the success of dragooning , and the severities you condemn , than of your moderate method ; which we shall compare with the king of france's , and see which is most successful in making proselytes to church-conformity , ( for yours as well as his reach no farther than that ) when you produce your examples : the consident talk whereof , is good to count●…nce a cause , though experience there be none in the case . but you appeal , you say , to all observing persons , whether where-euer true religion or sound christianity have been nationally receiv'd and 〈◊〉 by moderate penal laws , it has not always visibly lost ground by the relaxation of those laws ? true or false religions , sound or unsound christianity , where-ever establish'd into national religions by penal laws , always have lost , and always will lose ground , i. e. lose several of their confo●…ming professors upon the relaxation of those laws . but this concerns not the true , more than other religions ; nor is any prejudice to it : but only shews , that many are , by the penalties of the law , kept in the communion of the national religion , who are not really convinced , or perswaded of it : and therefore , as soon as liberty is given , they own the dislike they had many of them before , and out of perswasion , curiosity , &c. seek out , and bet●…ke themselves to some other profession . this need not startle the magistrates of any religion , much less those of the true , since they will be sure to retain those , who more mind their secular interest than the truth of religion , ( who are every-where the greater number ) by the advantages of countenance and p●…ferment : and if it be the true religion , they will retain those also , who are in earnest of it , by the stronger tie of co●…science and conviction . you go on , whether sects and hercsies ( even the wildest and most absurd , and even epicurism and atheism ) have not continually thereupon spread themselves , and whether the very life of christianity has not sensibly decay'd , as well as the number of sound prosessors of it been daily lessen'd upon it ? as to atheism and epicurism , whether they more spread under toleration , or national religions , establish'd by moderate penal laws , when you shew us the countries where fair trial hath been made of both , that we may compare them together , we shall better be able to judg . epicurism and atheism , say you , are found constantly to spread themselves upon the relaxation of moderate penal laws . we will suppose your history to be full of instances of such relaxations , which you will in good time communicate to the world , that wants this assistance from your observation . but were this to be justified out of history , yet would it not be any argument against toleration ; unless your history can furnish you with a new sort of religion founded in atheism . however , you do well to charge the spreading of atheism upon toleration in matters of religion , as an argument against those who deny atheism ( which takes away all religion ) to have any right to toleration at all . but perhaps ( as is usual for those who think all the world should see with their eyes , and receive their systems for unquestionable verities ) zeal for your own way makes you call all atheism , that agrees not with it . that which makes me doubt of this , are these following words ; not to speak of what at this time our eyes cannot but see for fear of giving offence : though i hope it will be none to any that have a just concern for truth and piety , to take notice of the books and pamphlets which now fly so thick about this kingdom , manifestly tending to the multiplying of sects and divisions , and even to the promoting of scepticism in religion among us . in which number , you say , you shall not much need my pardon , if you reckon the first and second letter concerning toleration . wherein , by a broad insinuation , you impute the spreading of atheism among us , to the late relaxation made in favour of protestant dissenters : and yet all that you take notice of as a proof of this , is , the books and pamphlets which now fly so thick about this kingdom , manifestly tending to the multiplying of sects and divisions , and even to the promoting of scepticism in religion amongst us ; and for instance , you name the first and second letter concerning toleration . if one may guess at the others by these , the athcism and scepticism you accuse them of will have but little more in it , than an opposition to your hypothesis ; on which , the whole business of religion must so turn , that whatever agrees not with your system , must presently , by interpretation , be concluded to tend to the promoting of atheism or scepticism in religion . for i challenge you to shew in either of those two letters you mention , one word tending to epicurism , atheism or scepticism in religion . but , sir , against the next time you are to give an account of books and pamphlets tending to the promoting scepticism in religion amongst us . i shall mind you of the third letter concerning toleration , to be added to the catalogue , which asserting and building upon this , that true religion may be known by those who profess it , to be the only true religion , does not a little towards betraying the christian religion to scepticks . for what greater advantage can be given them , than to teach , that one may know the true religion ? thereby putting into their hands a right to demand it to be demonstrated to them , that the christian religion is true , and bringing on the professors of it a necessity of doing it . i have heard it complain'd of as one great artifice of scepticks , to require demonstrations where they neither could be had , nor were necessary . but if the true religion may be known to men to be so , a sceptick may require , and you cannot blame him if he does not receive your religion , upon the strongest probable arguments , without demonstration . and if one should demand of you demonstration of the truths of your religion , which i beseech you , would you do , either renounce your assertion , that it may be known to be true , or else undertake to demonstrate it to him ? and as for the decay of the very life and spirit of christianity , and the spreading of epicurism amongst us : i ask , what can more tend to the promoting of them than this doctrine , which is to be found in the same letter , viz. that it is presumable that those who conform , do it upon reason and conviction ? when you can instance in any thing so much tending to the promoting of scepticism in religion and epicurism , in the first or second letter concerning toleration , we shall have reason to think you have some ground for what you say . as to epicurism , the spreading whereof you likewise impu●…e to the relaxation of your moderate penal laws ; that so far as it is distinct from atheism , i think regards mens lives more than their religions , i. e. speculative opinions in religion and ways of worship , which is that we mean by religion , as concern'd in toleration . and for the toleration of corrupt manners , and the debaucheries of life , neither our author , nor i do plead for it ; but say it is properly the magistrate's business , by punishments , to restrain and suppress them . i do not therefore blame your zeal against atheism and epicurism ; but you discover a great zeal against something else , in charging them on toleration , when it is in the magistrate's power to restrain and suppress them by more effectual laws than those for church-conformity . for there are those who will tell you that an outward profession of the national religion , even where it is the true religion , is no more opposite to , or inconsistent with atheism or epicurism , than the owning of another religion , ●…specially any christian profession , that differs from it . and therefore you , in vain , impute atheism or epicurism to the relaxation of penal laws , that require no more than an outward conformity to the national church . as to the s●…cts and un-christian divisions ( for other divisions there may be without prejudice to christianity ) at whose door they chiesly ought to be laid , i have shew'd you elsewhere . one thing i cannot but take notice of here , that having named sects , heresi●…s , epicurism , atheism , and a d●…ay of the spirit and life of christianity , as the fruits of 〈◊〉 , for which you had the attestation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , you add these words , not to speak of what our 〈◊〉 at this 〈◊〉 cannot but 〈◊〉 , for fear of giving offence . whom is it , i beseech you , you are so afraid of offending , if you should speak of the epicurism , atheism , and d●…ay of the spirit , and life of christianity ●…gst 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? but i see , he that is so mode●… in one he will not take upon , 〈◊〉 what they cannot know he calls moderate pe●…is or force , may yet , in another pa●…t of the same letter , by bro●…d insinnations , use 〈◊〉 , wherein 't is a hard matter to think law-mak●…rs and gov●…nners are not meant . but whoever be meant , it is at least advisable in accusations that are easier suggested than made out , to cast abroad the slander in general , and leave others to apply it , for ●…ear those who are named , and so justly offended with a false imputation , should be intitled to ask , as in this case , how it appears that sects and herosies have multiplied , epicurism and atheism spread themselves , and that the life and spirit of christianity is decay'd , more within these two years than it was before , and that all this mischief is owing to the late relaxation of the penal laws against protestant dissenters . you go on , and if these have always been the fruits of the relaxation of moderate penal laws , made for the preserving and advancing true religion ; you think this consideration alone is abundantly sufficient to shew the ●…fulness and benefit of such laws . for if these evils have constantly sprung from the relaxation of those laws , 〈◊〉 evident they were prevented before by those laws . one would think by your saying , always been the fruits , and constantly sprung , that moderate penal laws , for preserving the true religion , had been the constant practice of all christian common-wealth ; and that relaxations of them , i●… favour of a free toleration , had frequently happen'd ; and that there were examples both of the one and the other , as common and known , as of prince ; that have persecuted for religion , and learned men who have imploy'd their skill to make it good . but till you shew us in what ages or countries your moderate establishments were in fashion , and where they were again removed to make way for our author's toleration , you to as little purpose talk of the fruits of them , as if you should talk of the fruit of a tree which no body planted , or was no where suffered to grow till one might see what fruit came from it . having laid it down as one of the conditions for a fair debate of this controversy , ` that it should be without supposing all along your church in the right , and your religion the true ; i add these words , which can no more be allow'd to you in this case , whatever your church or religion be , than it can be to a papist or a lutheran , a presbyterian or an anabaptist ; nay no more to you , than it can be allow'd to a jew or mahometan . to which you reply , no sir ? not whatever your church or religion be ? that seems somewhat hard . and you think i might have given you some reason for what i say : for certainly it is not so self-evident as to need no proof . but you think it is no hard matter to guess at my reason , though i did not think fit expresty to own it . for 't is obvious enough there can be no other reason for this assertion of mine , but either the equal truth , or at least the equal certainty ( or vncertainty ) of all religions . for whoever considers my assertion , must see , that to make it good i shall be obliged to maintain one of these two things . either , . that no religion is the true religion , in opposition to other religions : which makes all religions true or false , and so either way indifferent . or , . that though some one religion be the true religion , yet no man can have any more reason than another man of another religion may have , to believe his to be the true religion . which makes all religions equally certain , ( or uncertain , whether i please ) and so renders it vain and idle to enquire after the true religion , and only a piece of good luck if any man be of it , and such good luck as he can never know that he has till he come into the other world. whether of these two principles i will own , you know not . but certainly one or other of them lies at the bottom with me , and is the lurking supposition upon which i build all that i say . certainly no , sir , neither of these reasons you have so ingenuously and friendly found out for me , lies at the bottom ; but this , that whatever privilege or power you claim , upon your supposing yours to be the true religion , is equally due to another ( who supposes his to be the true religion ) upon the same claim : and therefore that is no more to be allow'd to you than to him . for whose is really the true religion , yours or his , being the matter in contest betwixt you , your supposing can no more determine it on your side , than his supposing on his ; unless you can think you have a right to judg in your own cause . you believe yours to be the true religion , so does he believe his : you say you are certain of it , so says he , he is : you think you have arguments proper and sufficient to convince him , if he would consider them ; the same thinks he of his . if this claim , which is equally on both sides , be allow'd to either , without any proof , 't is plain he , i●… whose favour it is allow'd , is allow'd to be judg in his own cause , which no body can have a right to be , who is not at least infallible . if you come to arguments and proofs , which you must do , befo●…e it can be determin'd whose is the true religion , 't is plain your supposition is not allow'd . in our present case , in using punishments in religion , your supposing yours to be the true religion , gives you or your magistrate no more advantage over a papist , presbyterian or mahometan , or more reason to punish either of them for his religion , than the same . supposition in a papist , presbyterian or mahometan gives any of them , or a magistrate of their religion , advantage over you , or reason to punish you for your religion : and therefore this supposition , to any purpose or privilege of using of force , is no more to be allow'd to you , than to any one of any other religion . this the words , in this case , which i there used , would have satisfied any other to have been my meaning : but whether your charity made you not to take notice of them , or the joy of such an advantage as this , not to understand them , this is certain , you were resolved not to lose the opportunity , such a place as this afforded you , of shewing your gift , in commenting and guessing shrewdly at a man's reasons , when he does not think fit expresly to own them himself . i must own you have a very lucky hand at it , and as you do it here upon the same ground , so it is just with the same success , as you in another place have exercis'd your logick on my saying something to the same purpose , as i do here . but , sir , if you will add but one more to your plentiful stock of distinctions , and observe the difference there is between the ground of any one's supposing his religion is true , and the privilege he may pretend to by supposing it true , you will never stumble a●… this again ; but you will find , that though upon the former of these accounts , men of all religions cannot be equally allow'd to suppose their religions true , yet in reference to the latter , the supposition may and ought to be allow'd , or deny'd equally to all men. and the reason of it is plain , viz. because the assurance wherewith one man supposes his religion to be true , being no more an argument of its truth to another , than vice versâ ; neither of them can claim by the assurance , wherewith he supposes his religion the true , any prerogative or power over the other , which the other has not by the same title an equal claim to , over him . if this will not serve to spare you the pains another time of any more such reasonings , as we have twice had on this subject , i think i shall be forced to send you to my mahometans or pagans : and i doubt whether i am not less civil to your parts than i should be , that i do not send you to them now . you go on and say , but as u●…reasonable as this condition is , you see no need you have to decline it , nor any occasion i had to impose it upon you . for certainly the making what i call your new method , cons●…ltent and practicable , does no way oblige you to suppose all along your religion the true , as i imagine . and as i imagine it does : for without that supposition , i would fain have you shew me how it is in any one country practicable to punish men to b●…ing them to the true religion . for if you will argue for force , as necessary to bring men to the true religion , without supposing yours to be it , you will find your self under some such difficulty as this , that then it must be first determin'd , ( and you will require it should be ) which is the true religion , before any one can have a right to use force to bring men to it ; which , if every one did not determine for himself , by supposing his own the true , no body , i think , will desire toleration any longer than till that be settled . you go on , no , sir , it is enough for that purpose , that there is one true religion , and but one . suppose not the national religion establish●…d by law in england to be that , and then even upon your principles of its being useful , and that the magistrate has a commission to use force for the promoting the true religion , prove if you please , that the magistrato has a power to use force to bring men to the national religion in england . for then you must prove the national religion , as establish'd by law in england , to be that one true religion , and so the true religion , that he rejects the true religion , who dissents from any part of it , and so rejecting the true religion , cannot be saved . but of this more in another place . your other two suppositions which you join to the foregoing , are , that that religion may be known by those who 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be the only true religion ; and may also be manifested to be such by them to others , so far at least , as to oblige them to receive it , and to leave them without excuse , if they do not . these , you say , are suppositions enough for the making your m●…od consistent and pra●…ioable . they are , 〈◊〉 , more than enough , for you , upon them , to prove any national religion in the world , the only true religion . and till you have proved ( for you profess here to have quitted the supposition of any one's being true , as necessary to your hypothesis ) some national religion to be that only true religion , i would gladly know how it is any where practicable to use force to bring men to the true religion . you suppose there is one true religion , and but one . in this we are both agreed : and from hence , i think , it will follow , since whoever is of this true religion shall be saved , and without being of it no man shall be saved , that upon your second and third supposition , it will be hard to shew any national religion to be this only true religion . for who is it will say , he knows , or that it is knowable , that any national religion ( wherein must be comprehended all that , by the penal laws , he is requird to imbrace ) is that only true religion ; which if men reject , they shall ; and which , if they imbrace , they shall not miss salvation ? or can you undertake that any national religion in the world can be manifested to be such , i. e. in short , to contain all things necessary to salvation , and nothing but what is so ? for that , and that alone , is the one only true religion , without which no body can be saved ; and which is enough for the salvation of every one who imbraces it . and therefore whatever is less or more than this , is not the one only true religion , or that which there is a necessity for their salvation , men should be forced to imbrace . i do not hereby deny , that there is any national religion which contains all that is necessary to salvation , for so doth the romish religion , which is not for all that , so much as a true religion . nor do i deny , that there are national religions that contain all things necessary to salvation , and nothing inconsistent with it , and so may be call'd true religions . but since they all of them joyn with what is necessary to salvation , a great deal that is not so , and make that as necessary to communion , as what is necessary to salvation , not suffering any one to be of their communion , without taking all together ; nor to live amongst them free from punishment , out of their communion ; will you affirm , that any of the national religions of the world , which are imposed by penal laws , and to which men are driven with force , can be said to be , that one only true religion , which if men imbrace , they shall be saved ; and which if they imbrace not , they shall be damn'd ? and therefore , your two suppositions , true or false , are not enough to make it practicable , upon your principles of necessity , to use force upon dissenters from the national religion , though it contain in it nothing but truth , unless that which is requir'd to communion be all necessary to salvation . for whatever is not necessary to salvation , there is no necessity any one should imbrace . so that whenever you speak of the true religion , to make it to your purpose , you must speak only of what is necessary to salvation ; unless you will say , that in order to the salvation of mens souls , it is necessary to use force to bring them to imbrace something , that is not necessary to their salvation . i think that neither you nor any body else , will affirm , that it is necessary to use force to bring men to receive all the truths of the christian religion , though they are truths god has thought sit to reveal . for then , by your own rule , you who profefs the christian religion , must know them all , and must be able to manifest them to others ; for it is on that here you ground the necessity and reasonableness of penalties used to bring men to imbrace the truth . but i suspect 't is the good word religion ( as in other places other words ) has misled you , whilst you content your self with good sounds , and some confused notions , that usually accompany them , without annexing to them any precise determin'd signification . to convince you that 't is not without ground i say this , i shall desire you but to set down what you mean here by true religion , that we may know what in your sense is , and what is not contain'd in it . would you but do thus fairly , and define your words , or use them in one constant settled sense , i think the controversy between you and me , would be at an end without any farther trouble . having shewed of what advantage they are like to be to you for the making your method practicable , in the next place let us consider your suppositions themselves . as to the first , there is one true religion , and but one , we are argeed . but what you say in the next place , that that one true religion may be known by those who profess it , will need a little examination . as first , it will be necessary to enquire , what you mean by known , whether you mean by it knowledg properly so call'd , as contra-distinguish'd to belief ; or only the assurance of a sirm belief ? if the l●…tter , i leave you your supposition to make your use of it , only with this desire , that to avoid mistakes , when you do make any use of it , you would call it believing . if you mean that the true religion may be known with the certainty of knowledg properly so call'd ; i ask you farther , whether that true religion be to be known by the light of nature , or needed a divine revelation to discover it ? if you say ( as i suppose you will ) the latter ; then i ask whether the making out of that to be a divine revelation , depends not upon particular matters of fact , whereof you were no eye-witness ; but were done many ages before you were born , and if so , by what principles of science they can be known to any man now living ? the articles of my religion , and of a great many other such short-sighted people as i am , are articles of faith , which we think there are so good grounds to believe , that we are perswaded to venture our eternal happiness on that belief : and hope to be of that number of whom our saviour said , blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed . but we neither think that god requires , nor has given us faculties capable of knowing in this world several of those truths which are to be believed to salvation . if you have a religion , all whose general truths are either self-evident , or capable of demonstration , ( for matters of fact are not capable of being any way known but to the by-standers ) you will do well to let it be known , for the ending of controversies , and banishing of error concerning any of those points out of the world. for whatever may be known , besides matter of fact , is capable of demonstration , and when you have demonstrated to any one any point in religion , you shall have my consent to punish him if he do not assent to it . but yet let me tell you there are many truths even in mathematicks , the evidence whereof one man seeing is able to demonstrate to himself , and so may know them ; which evidence yet he not being able to make another see , ( which is to demonstrate to him ) he cannot make known to him , though his scholar be willing , and with all his power applies himself to learn it . but granting your supposition , that the one true religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only true religion ; will it follow from hence , that because it is knowable to be the true religion , therefore the magistrate who prosesses it actually knows it to be so ? without which knowledg , upon your principles , he cannot use force to bring men to it . but if you are but at hand to assure him , which is the true religion , for which he ought to use force , he is bound to believe you ; and that will do as well as if he examin'd and knew himself , or perhaps better . for you seem not well satisfied with what the magistrates have lately done , without your leave , concerning religion in england . and i confess the easiest way to remove all difficulties in the case , is for you to be the magistrates infallible guide in matters of r●…ligion . and therefore you do well here also to keep to your safe stile , lest if your sense were clear and determin'd , it might be more exposed to exceptions ; and therefore you tell us the true religion may be known by those who profess it . for not saying by some of those , or by all those , the error of what you say is not so easily observed , and requires the more trouble to come at : which i shall spare my self here , being satisfied , that the magistrate who has so full an imployment of his thoughts in the cares of the government , has not an over-plus of leisure to attain that knowledg which you require , and so usually contents himself with believing . your next supposition is , that the one true religion may also be manifested to be such , by the●… , to others ; so far , at least , as to oblige them to receive it , and leave them without excuse if they do not . that it can be manifested to some , so as to oblige , i. e. cause them to receive it , is evident , because it is received . but because this seems to be spoken more in reference to those who do not receive it , as appears by these following words of yours ; then 't is altogether as plain that it may be very reasonable and necessary for some men to change their religion ; and that it may be made appear to them to be so . and then , if such men will not consider what is offer'd to c●…nvince them of the reasonableness and necess●…y of doing it ; it may be very fit and reasonable , you tell me , for any thing i have said to the contrary , in order to the bringing them to the consideration , to require them , under convenient penalties , to forsake their false religions , and to embrace the true . you suppose the true religion may be so manifested by a man that is of it , to all men so far as to leave them if they do not imbrace it , without excuse . without excuse , to whom i beseech you ? to god indeed , but not to the magistrate , who can never know whether it has been so manifested to any man , that it has been through his fault that he has not been convinc●…d , and not through the fault of him to whom the magistrate committed the care of convincing him : and 't is a sufficient ex●…use to the magistrate , for any one to say to him , i have not neglected to consider the arguments , that have been offered me , by those whom you have imploy'd to manifest it to me , but that yours is the only true religion i am not religion . which is so direct and sufficient an excuse to the magistrate , that had he an express commission from heaven to punish all those who did not consider , he could not yet justly punish any one whom he could not convince had not consider'd . but you endeavour to avoid this , by what you infer from this your supposition , viz. that then it may be very fit and reasonable , for any thing i have said to the contrary , to require men under convenient penalties to forsake their false religions , to imbrace the true , i●…order to the bringing them to consideration . whether i have said any ●…hing to the contrary , o●… no , the readers must judg , and i need not repeat . but now i say , it is neither just nor reasonable to require men , under penalties , to attain one end , in order to bring them to use the means not necessary to that , but to another end . for where is it you can say ( unless you will return to your old supposition , of yours being the true religion ; which you say is not necessary to your method ) that men are by the law required to forsake their false religions , and imbrace the true ? the utmost is this , in all countries where the national religion is imposed by law , men are required under the penalties of those laws outwardly to conform to it ; which you say is in order to make them consider . so that your punishments are for the attaining one end , viz. conformity in order to make men use consideration , which is a means not necessary to that , but another end , viz. finding out and imbracing the one true religion . for however consideration may be a necessary means to find and imbrace the one true religion , it is not at all a necessary means to outward conformity in the communion of any religion . to manifest the consistency and practicableness of your method , to the question , what advantage would it be to the true religion , if magistrates did every where so punish ? you answer , that by the magistrates punishing , if i speak to the purpose , i must mean their punishing men for rejecting the true religi●…n ( so tender'd to them , as has been said ) in order to the bringing them to consider and imbrace it . now before we can suppose magistrates every where so to punish , we must suppose the true religion to be every where the national religion . and if this were the case ; you think it is evident ●…nough , what advantage to the true religion it would be , if magistrates every where did so punish . for then we might reasonably hope ●…hat all f●…lse religions would soon vanish , and the true become on●… more the only religion in the world : whereas if magistrates should not so punish , it were much to be fear'd ( especially considering what has already happen'd ) that on the contrary false religions , and atheism , as more agreeable to the soil , would daily take deeper root , and propagate themselves , till there were no room left for the true religion ( which is but a foreign plant ) in any corner of the world. if you can make it practicable that the magistrate should punish men for rejecting the true religion , without judging which is the true religion : or if true religion could appear in person , take the magistrate's seat , and there judg all that rejected her , something might be done . but the mischief of it is , it is a man that must condemn , men must punish , and men cannot do this , but by judging , who is guilty of the crime , which they punish . an oracle , or an interpreter of the law of nature who speaks as clearly , tells the magistrate , he may and ought to punish those , who reject the true religion , tender'd with sufficient evidence : the magistrate is satisfied of his authority , and believes this commission to be good . now i would know how possibly he can execute it , without making himself the judg , . what is the true religion ; unless the law of nature at the same time deliver'd into his hands the articles of the one only true religion , and another book wherein all the ceremonies and outward worship of it are contain'd . but it being certain , that the law of nature has not done this ; and as certain , that the articles , ceremonies and discipline of this one only true religion , have been often varied in several ages and countries , since the magistrate's commission by the law of nature was first given : there is no remedy left , but that the magistrate must judg what is the true religion , if he must punish them who reject it . suppose the magistrate be commission'd to punish those who depart from right reason , the magistrate can yet never punish any one , unless he be judg what is right reason ; and then judging that murder , theft , adultery , narrow cart-wheels , or want of bows and arrows in a man's house , are against right reason , he may make laws to punish men guilty of those , as 〈◊〉 right reason . so if the magistrate in england or france , having a commission to punish those who reject the one only true religion , judges the religion of his national church to be it , 't is possible for him to lay penalties on those who reject it , pursuant to that commission ; otherwise , without judging that to be the one only true religion , 't is wholly impracticable for him to punish those who imbrace it not , as rejecters of the one only true religion . to provide as good a salvo as the thing will bear , you say , in th●… fol●…wing words , before we can suppose magistrates every where so to punish , we must suppose the true religion to be every where the national . that is true of actual punishment , but not of laying on penalties by law ; for that would be to suppose the national religion makes or chuses the magistrate , and not the magistrate the national religion . but we see the contrary ; for let the national religion be what it will before , the magistrate doth not always fall into it and imbrace that ; but if he thinks not that , but some other the true , the first opportunity he has , he changes the national religion into that which he judges the true , and then punishes the dissenters from it ; where his judgment , which is the true religion , always necessarily precedes , and is that which ultimately does , and must determine who are rejecters of the true religion , and so obnoxi●…us to punishment . this being so , i would gladly see how your meth●…d can be any way practicable to the advantage of the true religion , whereof the magistrate every-where must be judg , or else he can punish no body at all . you tell me that whereas i say , that to justify punishment it is requisite that it be directly useful for the procu●…ing some 〈◊〉 good than that which it takes away ; you wish i had told you why it must needs be directly useful for that purpose . however exact you may be in demanding reasons of what is said , i thought here you had no cause to complain ; but you let slip out of your memory the foregoing words of this passage , which together stands thus , punishment is some evil , some inconvenience , some suffering , by taking away , or abridging some good thing , which he who is punish'd ha●… otherwise a right to . now to justify the bringing any such evil upon any man , two things are requisite ; . that he that does it has a commission so to do . . that it be directly useful for the promoting some greater good. 't is evident by these words , that punishment brings direct evil upon a man , and therefore it should not be used but where it is directly useful for the procuring some greater good. in this case , the signification of the word directly , carries a manifest reason in it , to any one who understands what directly means . if the taking away any good from a man cannot be justified , but by making it a means to procure a greater , is it not plain it must be so a means as to have , in the operation of causes and effects , a natural tendency to that effect ? and then it is called directly useful to such an end : and this may give you a reason , why punishment must be directly useful for that purpose . i know you are very tender of your indirect and at a distance usefulness of force , which i have in another place shew'd to be , in your way , only useful by accident ; nor will the question you here subjoin , excuse it from being so , viz. why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not as directly useful for the bringing men to the true religion , as the r●…d of correction is to drive foolishness from a child or to work wisdom in him ? because the rod works on the will of the child to obey the reason of the father , whilst under his tuition , and thereby makes it supple to the dictates of his own reason afterwards , and disposes him to obey the light of that , when being grown to be a man , that is to be his guide , and this is wisdom . if your penalties are so used , i have nothing to say to them . your way is charg'd to be impracticable to those ends you purpose , which you indeavour to clear , p. . that there may be fair play on both sides , the reader shall have in the same view what we both say . 〈◊〉 . . p. . it remains now to examine , whether the author's argument will not hold good , even against punishments in your way . for if the magistrate's authority be , as you here say , only to procure all his subjects , ( mark what you say , all his svbjects ) the means of discovering the way of salvation , and to procure 〈◊〉 , as much as in him lies , that none remain ignorant of it , or refuse to embrace it , 〈◊〉 for want of using those means , or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them 〈◊〉 . if this be the magistrate's business , in reference to all his subjects ; i desire you , or any man else , to tell me how this can be done , by the application of force only to a part of them ; unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance , negligence , or prejudice , only amongst that part which any-where differs from the magistrate . if those of the magistrate's church may be ignorant of the way of salvation ; if it be possible there may be amongst them , those who refuse to imbrace it , e●…her for want of using those means , or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual ; what , in this case , becomes of the magistrate's authority to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation ? must these of his subjects be neglected , and left without the means be has authority to procure them ? or must he use force upon them too ? and then , pray , shew me how this can be done . shall the magistrate punish those of his own religion , to proc●…re them the means of discovering the the way of salvation , and to procure , as much as in him lies , that they remain not ignor an t of it , or refuse not to imbrace it ? these are such contradictions in practice , this is such condemnation of a man 's own religion , as no one can expect from the magistrate ; and i dare say you desire not of him . and yet this is that he must do , if his authority be to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way to salvation . and if it be so needful , as you say it is , that he should use it ; i am sure force cannot do that till it be apply'd wider , and punishment be laid upon more than you would have it . for if the magistrate be by force to procure , as much as in him lies , that none remain ignorant of the way of salvation ; must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of salvation ? and pray t●…ll me how is this any way practicable , but by supposing none in the national church ignorant , and all out of it ignorant of the way of salvation ? which , what is it , but to punish men barely for not being of the magistrate's religion ; the very thing you deny he has authority to do ? so that the magistrate having , by your own confession , no authority thus to use force ; and it being otherways impracticable for the procuring all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation ; there is an end of force . and so force being laid aside , either as unlawful , or unpracticable , the author's argument holds good against force , even in your way of applying it . l. . p. . but how little to the purpose this request of yours is , will quickly appear . for if the magistrate provides sufficiently for the instruction of all his subjects in the true religion ; and then requires them all , under convenient penalties , to hearken to the teachers and ministers of it , and to profess and 〈◊〉 it with one accord , under their 〈◊〉 , in publick assemb●…ies : is there any prctence to say , that in so doing he applies force only to a part of his subjects ; when the law is general , and excepts none ? ' ●…is true , the magistrate insticts the penalties in that ease , only upon them that break the law. but is that the the thing you mean by his applying force only to a part of his subjects ? would you have him punish all , indifferently ? them that obey the law , as well as them that do not ? as to ignorance , negligence and prejudice , i desire y●…u , or any man ●…lse , to tell me what better course can be taken to c●…re them , than that which i have mentioned . for if after all that god's ministers , and the magistrate can do , some will still remain ignorant , negligent , or prejudiced ; i do not take that to be any disparagement to it : for certainly that is a very extraordinary remedy , which infassibly cures all discas'd persons to whom it is applied . the backwardness and lusts that hinder an impartial examination , as you describe it , is general . the corruption of nature which hinders a real imbracing the true religion , that also you tell us here , is universal . i ask a remedy for these in your way . you say the law for conformity is general , excepts none . very likely , none that do not conform ; but punishes none who conforming , do neither impartially examine nor really imbrace the true religion . from whence i conclude , there is no corruption of nature in those , who are brought up or join in outward communion with the church of england . but as to ignorance , negligence and prejudice , you say you desire me , or any man else , to tell what better course can be taken to cure them , than that which you have mentioned . if your church can find no better way to cure ignorance and prejudice , and the negligence , that is in men , to examine matters of religion and heartily imbrace the true , than what is impracticable upon conformists , then of all others , conformists are in the most deplorable estate . but , as i remember . you have been told of a better way , which is , the 〈◊〉 with men seriously and friendly about matters in religion , by those whose prosession is the care of souls ; examining what they do understand , and where , either through laziness , prejudice or dissiculty , they do stick ; and applying to their several diseases proper cures , which it is as impossible to do by a general harangue , once or twice a week out of the pulpit , as to sit all mens feet with one shoe , or cure all mens ails with one , though very wholsome , diet-drink . to be thus instant in season and out of season , some men have thought a better way of cure , than a desire , only to have men driven by the whip , either in your , or the magistrate's hands , into the sheepfold : where when they are once , whether they understand or no , their ministers se●…mons ; whether they are , or can be better for them or no ; whether they are ignorant and hypocritical conformists , and in that way like to remain so , rather than to become knowing and sincere converts , some bishops have thought is not sufficiently enquired ; but this no body is to mention , for whoever does so , makes himself an occasion to she●… his good will to the clergy . this had not been said by me here , now i see how apt you are to be put out of temper with any thing of this kind , ( though it be in every serious man's mouth ) had not you desired me to shew you a better way than force , your way apply'd . and to use your way of arguing , since bare preaching , as now us'd , 't is plain , will not do , there is no other means left but this to deal with the corrupt nature of conformists ; for miracles are now ceased , and penalties they are free from ; therefore , by your way of concluding , no other being left , this of visiting at home , conferring and instructing , and admonishing men there , and the like means , proposed by the reverend author of the pastoral care , is necessary ; and men , whose business is the care of souls , are obliged to use it : for you cannot prove , that it cannot do some service ( i think i need not say ) 〈◊〉 and at a distance . and if this be proper and sufficient to bring consormists ( notwithstanding the corruption of their nature ) to examine impartially , and really imbrace the truth that must save them , it will remain to shew , why it may not do as well on nonconformists ( whose , i imagine , is the common corruption of nature ) to bring them to examine and imbrace the truth , that must save them ? and though it be not so extraordinary a re●…edy as will infallibly cure all diseased persons , to whom it is apply'd ; yet since the corruption of nature , which is the same disease , and ●…inders the impartial examination , and hearty imbracing the truth that must 〈◊〉 them , is equally in both , conformists and nonconformists , 't is reasonable to think it should in both have the same cure , let that be what it will. chap. x. of the necessity of force in matters of religion . you tell us you do not ground the lawfulness of such force , as you take to be useful for promoting the true religion , upon the bare usefulness of such force , but upon the necessity as well as usefulness of it ; and therefore you declare it to be no fit means to be used , either for that purpose or any other , where it is not necessary as well as useful . how useful force in the magistrate's hand , for bringing men to the true religion , is like to be , we have shewn in the foregoing chapter , in answer to what you have said for it . so that it being proved not useful , it is impossible it should be necessary . however we will examine what you say to prove the necessity of it . the foundation you build on for its necessity we have in your argument considered , where having at large dilated on mens inconsiderateness in the choice of their religions , and their persisting in those they have once chosen , without due examination , you conclude thus ; now if this be the case , if men are so ●…verse se to a due consideration , if they usually take up their religion , without examining it as they ought , what other 〈◊〉 is there left ? wherein you suppose force necessary , instead of proving it to be so ; for preaching and perswasion not prevailing upon all men , you upon your own authority think fit something else should be done ; and that being resolv'd , you readily pitch on force , because you say you can find nothing else , which in effect is only to tell us , if the salvation of mens souls were only left to your discretion , how you would order the matter . and in your answer to me , you very considently tell us , the true religion cannot prevail without the assistance either of miracles , or of authority . i shall here only observe one or two things , and then go on to examine how you make this good . the first thing i shall observe is , that in your argument considered , &c. you suppose force necessary only to master the aversion there is in men to considering and examination : and here in your answer to me , you make force necessary to conquer the aversion there is in men to imbrace and obey the true religion . which are so very different , that the former justisies the use of force only to make men consider , the other justisies the use of force to make men imbrace religion . if you meant the same thing when you writ your first trtatise , it was not very ingenuous to express your self in such words as were not proper to give your reader your true meaning ; it being a far different thing to use force to make men consider , which is an action in their power to do or omit ; and to use force to make them imbrace , i. e. believe any religion , which is not a thing in any ones power to do or forbear as he pleases . if you say you meant barely considering in your first paper , as the whole current of it would make one believe , then i see your hypothesis may mend , as we have seen in other parts , and in time , may grow to its full stature . another thing i shall remark to you , is , that in your first paper , besides preaching and perswasion , and the grace of god , nothing but force was necessary . here in your second , it is either miracles or authority , which how you make good , we will now consider . you having said , you had no reason from any experiment or expect that true religion should be any way a gainer by toleration . i in●…anced in the prevailing of the gospel , by its own beauty , force and reasonableness , in the first ages of christianity . you reply , that it has not the same beauty , force and reasonableness now , that it had then , unless i include miracles too , which are now ce●…sed and as you tell us , were not withdrawn , till by their help christianity had prevailed to be received for the religion of the empire , and to be encouraged and supported by the laws of it . if therefore we will believe you upon your own word , force being necessary ( for prove it necessary you never can ) you have enter'd into the counsel of god , and tell us , when force could not be had , miracles were imploy'd to supply its want . i cannot but think , say you , it 's highly probable ( if we may be allowed to guess at the counsels of insinite wisdom ) that god was pleased to continue them till then , i. e. till the laws of the empire supported christanity , not so much for any necessity there was of them all that time , for the evincing the truth of the christian religion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . you allow your self to guess very frelly , when you will make god use miracles to supply a means he no where authorised or appointed ; how long miracles continued we shall see anon . say you , if we may be allowed to guess : this modesty of yours where you confess you guess , is only concerning the time of the continuing of miracles ; but as to their supplying the want of coactive force , that you are positive in , both here and where you tell us , why penalties were not necessary at first , to make men to give ear to the gospel , has already been shewn ; and a little after , the great and wonderful things which were to be done for the evidencing the truth of the gospel , were abundantly sufficient to procure attention , &c. how you come to know so undoubtedly that miracles were made use of to supply the magistrate's authority , since god no where tells you so , you would have done well to shew . but in your opinion force was necessary , and that could not then be had , and so god must use miracles . for , say you , our saviour was no magistrate , and therefore could not inflict political punishments upon any man , so much less could he impower his apostles to do it . could not our saviour impower his apostles to denounce or inflict punishments on careless or obstinate unbelievers , to make them hear and consider ? you pronounce very boldly methinks of christ's power , and set very narrow limits to what at another time you would not deny to be infinite : but it was convenient here for your present purpose , that it should be so limited . but , they not being magistrates , he could not impower his apostles to inflict political punishments . how is it of a sudden , that they must be political punishments ? you tell us all that is necessary , is to lay briars and thorns in mens ways , to trouble and disease them to make them consider . this i hope our saviour had power to do , if he had found it necessary , without the assistance of the magistrates ; he could have always done by his apostles , and ministers , if he had so thought ●…it , what he did once by st. peter , have drop'd thorns and briars into their very minds , that should have pricked , troubled and diseased them sufficiently . but sometimes it is briars and thorns only that you want , sometimes it must be humane means , and sometimes , as here , nothing will serve your turn but political punishments ; just as will best sute your occasion , in the argument you have then before you . that the apostles could lay on punishments , as troublesome and as great as any political ones when they were necessary , we see in ananias and saphira : and he that had all power given him in heaven and in earth , could , if he had thought ●…it , have laid briars and thorns in the way of all that received not his doctrine . you add , but as he could not punish men to make them hear him , so neither was there any need that he should . he came as a prophet sent from god to reveal a new doctrine to the world ; and therefore to prove his mission , he was to do such things as could only be done by a divine power : and the works which he did were abundantly sufficien both to gain him a hearing , and to oblige the world to receive his doctrine . thus the want of force and punishments are supplied . how far ? so far as they are supposed necessary to gain a hearing , and so far as to oblige the world to receive christ's doctrine ; whereby , as i suppose , you mean sufficient to lay an obligation on them to receive his doctrine , and render them inexcusable if they did not : but that they were not sufficient to make all that saw them effectually to receive and imbrace the gospel , i think is evident , and you will not i imagine say , that all who saw christ's miracles believed on him . so that miracles were not to supply the want of such force , as was to be continued on men to make them consider as they ought , i. e. till they imbraced the truth that must save them . for we have little reason to think that our saviour , or his apostles , contended with their neglect or refusal by a constant train of miracles , continued on to those who were not wrought upon by the gospel preached to them . st. matthew tells us , xiii . . that he did not many mighty works in his own country , because of their unbelief ; much less were miracles to supply the want of force in that use you make of it , where you tell us it is to punish the fault of not being of the true religion : for we do not find any miraculously punished to bring them in to the gospel . so that the want of force to either of these purposes not being supplied by miracles , the gospel 't is plain subsisted and spread it self without force so made use of , and without miracles to supply the want of it ' and therefore it so far remains true , that the gospel having the same beauty , force and reasonableness now as it had at the beginning , it wants not force to supply the defect of miracles , to that for which miracles were no where made use of . and so far , at least , the experiment is good , and this assertion true , that the gospel is able to prevail by its own light and truth , without the continuance of force on the same person , or punishing men fo●… not being of the true religion . you say , our saviour being no magistrate , could not inslict political punishments ; much less could be impower his apostles to do in . i know not what need there is , that it should be political ; so there were so much punishment used , as you say , is sufficient to make men consider , it is not necessary it should come from this or that hand : or if there be any odds in that , we should be apt to think it would come best , and most effectually , from those who preached the gospel , and could tell them it was to make them consider , than from the magistrate , who neither doth , nor according to your scheme can , tell them it is to make them consider . and this power , you will not deny , but our saviour could have given to the apos●…les . but if there were such absolute need of political punishments titus or trajan might as well have been converted , as constantin●… for how true it is , that miracles supplied the want of force front those days till constantine's , and then ceased , we shall see by and by . i say not this to enter boldly into the counsels of god , 〈◊〉 to take upon me to consure the conduct of the almighty , or to call his providence to an account ; but to answer your saying ; our s●…viour was no magistrate , and therefore could not inflict political punishments : for he could have had both magistrates and political punishments at his service , if he had thought sit , and needed not to have continued miracles longer , than there was necessity for evincing the truth of the christian religion , as you imagine , to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance , by force , which is necessary . but how come you to know , that force is necessary ? has god revealed it in his word ? no where . has it been revealed to you in particular ? that you will not say . what reason have you for it ? none at all but this , that having set down the grounds , upon which men take up and persist in their religion , you conclude , what means is there lest bue force ? force therefore you conclude necessary , because without any authority , but from your own imagination , you are peremptory , that other means , besides preaching and perswasion , is to be used ; and therefore is it necessary , because you can think of no other . when i tell you there is other means , and that by your own confession the grace of god is another means , and therefore force is not necessary : you reply , though the grace of god be another means , and you thought sit to mention it , to prevent cavils ; yet it is none of the means of which you were speaking , in the place i refer to ; which any one who reads that paragraph wist find to be only humane means : and therefore though the grace of god be both a proper and sufficient means , and such as can work by it self , and without which neither penalties nar any other means can do any thing ; yet it may be true however , that when admonitions and intreaties fail , there is no humane means left , but penalties , to bring prejudiced persons to hear and consider , what may convince them of their errors , and discover the truth to them . and then penalties will be necessary in respect to that end as an humane means . in which words , if you mean any answer to my argument , it is this , that force is necessary , because to bring men into the right way there is other humane means necessary , belides admonitions and perswasions . for else what have we to do with humane in the case ? but it is no small advantage one owes to logick , that where sense and reason fall short , a distinction ready at hand may ech it out . force , when perswasions will not prevail , is necessary , say you , because it is the only means lest , when you are told it is not the only means left , and so cannot be necessary on that account : you reply , that when admonitions and intreatics fail , there is no humane means left , but penalties , to bring prej●…diced persons to hear and consider what may convince them of their errors , and discover the truth to them : and then penalties will be necessary in respect to that end , as an humane means . suppose it be urged to you , when your moderate lower penalties fail , there is no humane means left , but dragooning and such other severities ; which you say you condemn as much as i , to bring prejudiced persons to hear and consider what may convince them of their errors , and discover the truth to them . and then dragooning , imprisonment , scourging , fining 〈◊〉 . will be necessary in respect to that end , as an humane means . what can you say but this ? that you are impower'd to judg what degrees of humane means are necessary , but others are not . for without such a considence in your own judgment , where god has neither said how much , nor that any force is necessary , i think this is as good an argument for the highest , as yours is for the lower penalties . when admonitions and intreaties will not prevail , then penalties , lower penalties , some degrees of force will be necessary , say you , as an humane means . and when your lower penalties , your some degrees of force will not prevail , then higher degrees will be necessary , say i , as an humane means . and my reason is the same with yours , because there is no other means ( i. e. humane means ) left . shew me how your argument concludes for lower punishments being necessary , and mine not for higher , even to dragooning , & eris mihi magnus apollo . but let us apply this to your succedaneum of miracles , and then it will be much more admirable . you tell us , admonitions and intreaties not prevailing to bring men into the right way , force is necessary , because there is no other means left . to that 't is said , yes , there is other means left , the grace of god. ay , but , say you , that will not do ; because you speak only of humane means . so that according to your way of arguing some other humane means is necessary : for you your self tell us , that the means you were speaking of , where you say , that when admonitions and intreaties will not do , what other means is there left but force ? were humane means . your words are , which any one , who reads that paragraph , will find to be only humane means . by this argument then other humane means are necessary besides preaching and perswasion , and those humane means you have found out to be either force or miracles : the latter are certainly notable humane means . and your distinction of humane means serves you to very good purpose , having brought miracles to be one of your humane means . preaching and admonitions , say you , are not sufficient to bring men into the right way , something else is necessary , yes , the grace of god ; no , say you , that will not do , it is not humane means : 't is necessary to have other humane means , therefore in the three or four first centuries after christianity , the insufficiency of preaching and admonitions was made up with miracles , and thus the necessity of other humane means is made good . but to consider a little further your miracles as supplying the want of force . the question between us here is , whether the christian religion did not prevail in the first ages of the church , by its own beauty , force and reasonableness , without the assistance of force ? i say it did , and therefore external force is not necessary . to this you reply , that it cannot prevail by its own light , and strength , without the assistance either of miracles , or of authority ; and therefore the christian reli●…ion not being still accompanied with miracles , force is now necessary . so that to make your equivalent of miracles correspond with your necessary means of force , you seem to require an actual application of miracles , or of force , to prevail with men to receive the gospel , i. e. men could not be prevailed with to receive the gospel without actually seeing of miracles . for when you tell us , that you are sure i cannot say the christian religion is still accompanied with miracles , as it was at its first planting ; i hope you do not mean that the gospel is not still accompanied , with an undoubted testimony , that miracles were done by the first publishers of it , which was as much of miracles ; as i suppose the greatest part of those had , with whom the christian religion prevailed , till it was supported and incouraged , as you tell us , by the laws of the empire : for i think you will not say , or if you should , you could not expect to be believed , that all , or the greatest part of those , that imbraced the christian religion , before it was supported by the laws of the empire , which was not till the fourth century , had actually miracles done before them , to work upon them . and all those , who were not eye-witnesses of miracles done in their presence , 't is plain had no other miracles , than we have , that is upon report ; and 't is probable not so many , nor so well attested as we have . the greatest part then of those who were converted ; at least , in some of those ages , before christianity was supported by the laws of the empire , i think you must allow , were wrought upon by bare preaching , and such miracles as we still have , miracles at a distance , related miracles . in others , and those the greater number , prejudice was not 〈◊〉 moved , that they were prevailed on to consider , to consider as they ought , i. e. in your language , to consider so as to imbrace . if they had not so considered in our days , what , according to your scheme , must have been done to them , that did not consider as they ought ? force must have been applied to them , what therefore in the primitive church was to be done to them ? why ! your 〈◊〉 miracles , actual miracles , such as you deny the christian religion to be still accompanied with , must have been doncin their presence , to work upon them . will you say this was 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 a new church-history for us , and out do those writers , who have been thought pretty liberal of miracles if you do not , you must consess miracles supplied not the place of force , and so let fall all your fine contrivance about the necessity either of force or miracles ; and perhaps you will think it at last a more becoming modesty , not to set the divine power and providonce on work , by rules , and for the ends of your hypothesis , without having any thing in authentick history , much less in divine and unerring revelation to justify you . but force and power deserve something more than ordinary and allowable arts or arguments , to get and keep them : si violandum sit jus regnandi causa violandum cst . if the testimony , of miracles having been done , wore sufficient to make the gospel prevail , without force , on those , who were not eye-witnesses of them , we have that still , and so upon that account need not force to supply the want of it : but if truth must have either the law of the country , or actual miracles to support it , what became of it after the reign of constantine the great , under all those emperors , that were erroneous or heretical ? it supported it self in piedmont , and france , and turky , many ages without force or miracles : and it spread it self in divers nations and kingdoms of the north and east , without any force or other miracles , than those , that were done many ages before . so that , i think , you will , upon second thoughts , not deny , but that the true religion is able to prevail now , as it did at first , and has done since in many places , without assistance from the powers in being , by its own beauty , force , and reasonableness , whereof well-attested miraclesis a part . but the account you give us of miracles will deserve to be a little examined ; we have it in these words , considering that those extraordinary means were not withdrawn , till by their help christianity had prcvail'd to be received for the religion of the empire , and to be supported and incouraged by the laws of it , you cannot you say but think it highly probable , ( if we may be allow'd to guess at the counsels of infinite wisdom ) that god was pleased to continue them till then , not so much for any necessity there was of them all that while , for the evincing the truth of the christian religion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . miracles then , if what you say be true , were continued till christianity was received for the religion of the empire , not so much to evince the truth of the christian religion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . but in this the leanned author , whose testimony you quote , f●…ils you . for the tells you that the chief use of miracles in the church , after the truth of the christian religion had been sufficiently consirmed by them in the world , was to oppose the salse and pretended miracles of hereticks and heathens ; and answerable hereunto miracles ceased and returned again , as such oppositions made them more or less necessary . accordingly miracles which before had abated in trajan's and hadrian's time , which was in the latter end of the first , or beginning of the second century , did again revive to confound the magical delusions of the hereticks of that time . and in the third century the hereticks using no such tricks , and the faith being consirm'd , they by dearees ceased , of which there then , he says , could be no imaginable necissity . his words are , et quidem●…o minus necessaria sunt pro veterum principiis , recentiora illa miracula , quod haereticos ( quos appellant ) nullos adversarios habeant , qui contraria illis dogmata astruant miraculis . sic enim vidimus , apud veteres , dum nulli ecclesiam exercerent adversarii , seu haretici , seu gentiles ; aut satis illi praeteritis miraculis 〈◊〉 ; an t nullas ipsi praestigias opponerent quae veris essent miraculis oppugnandae ; 〈◊〉 deinde paulatim esse mirificam illam spiritus virtutem . ortos sub trajano hadrianoque haereticos 〈◊〉 praestigiis magicis fuisse usos , & proinde miraculorum verorum in ecclesia usum una revixisse . ne dicam praestigiatores etiam gentiles eodem illo seculo sane frequentissimos , apuleium in africa , in asia , alexandrum , pseudomantim , multosque alios quorum meminit aristides . tertio seculo orto haeretici herniogenes , praxeas , noetus , theodotus , sabellius , novatianus , artemas , samosatenus , nulla , 〈◊〉 videtur , miracula ipsi venditabant , nullis propterea miraculis oppugnandi . inde vidimus , apud ipsos etiam catholicos , sensim defecisse miracula . et quidem , haereticis nulla in contrarium miracula ostentantibus , quae tandem singi potest miraculorum necessitas traditam ab initio fidem , miraculisque adeo jamdudum confirmatam praedicantibus ? nulla certe prorsus pro primaevo miraculorum exemplo . nulla denique consciis vere primaevam esse fidem quam novis miraculis suscipiunt confirmandam . the history therefore you have from him of miracles , serves for his hypothesis , but not at all for yours . for if they were continued to supply the want of force , which was to deal with the corruption of depraved humane nature , that being without any great variation in the world , constantly the same , there could be no reason why they should abate and fail , and then return and revive again . so that there being then , as you suppose , no necessity of miracles for any other end , but to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance , they must , to sute that end , be constant and regularly the same , as you would have force to be , which is steadily and uninterruptedly to be applied , as a constantly necessary remedy , to the corrupt nature of mankind . if you allow the learned dodwell's reasons , for the continuation of miracles , till the fourth century , your hypothesis , that they were continued to supply the magistrate's assistance , will be only precarious . for if there was need of miracles till that time to other purposes , the continuation of them in the church , though you could prove them to be , as frequent and certain , as those of our saviour , and the apostles , it would not advantage your cause : since it would be no evidence , that they were used for that end , which as long as there were other visible uses of them , you could not , without revelation , assure us were made use of by divine providence to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . you must therefore confute his hypothesis , before you can make any advantage of what he says , concerning the continuation of miracles , for the establishing of yours . for till you can shew , that that which he assigns was not the end , for which they were continued in the church ; the utmost you can say , ●…is , that it may be imagined , that one reason of their continuation was to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance : but what you can without proof imagine possible , i hope you do not expect should be received as an unquestionable proof , that it ●…as so . i can imagin it possible they were not continued for that end , and one imagination will be as good a proof as another . to do your modesty right therefore , i must allow , that you do faintly offer at some kind of reason , to prove that miracles were continued to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance : and since god has no where declared , that it was for that end , you would perswade us in this paragraph , that it was so , by two reasons . one is , that the truth of the christian religion being sufficiently evinced by the miracles done by our saviour and his apostles , and perhaps their immediate successors , there was no other need of miracles to be continued till the fourth century , and therefore they were used by god to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . this i take to be the meaning of these words of yours , i cannot but think it highly probable that god was pleased to continue them till then , not so much for any necessity there was of them all that while for the evincing the truth of the christian religion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . whereby , i suppose , you do not barely intend to tell the world what is your opinion in the case , but use this as an argument , to make it probable to others , that this was the end for which miracles were continued , which at best will be but a very doubtful probability to build such a bold assertion on , as this of yours is , viz. that the christian religion is not able to subsist and pre●…ail in the world , by its own light and strength , without the assistance either of force , or actual miracles . and therefore you must either produce a declaration from heaven that authorizes you to say , that miracles were used to supply the want of force , or shew that there was no other use of them but this . for if any other use can be assigned of them , as long as they continued in the church , one may safely deny , that they were to supply the want of force : and it will lie upon you to prove it by some other way than by saying you think it highly probable . for i suppose you do not expect that your thinking any thing highly probable , should be a sufficient reason for others to acquiesce in . when perhaps , the history of miracles considered , no body could bring himself to say he thought it probable , but one whose hypothesis stood in need of such a poor support . the other reason you seem to build on is this , that when christianity was received for the religion of the empire , miracles ceased ; because there was then no longer any need of them : which i take to be the argument infinuated in these words , considering that those extraordinary means were not withdrawn , till by their help christianity had prevailed to be received for the religion of the empire . if then you can make it appear that miracles lasted till christianity was received for the religion of the empire , without any other reason for their continuation , but to supply the wants of the magistrate's assistance ; and that they ceased as soon as the magistrates became christian : your argument will have some kind of probability , that within the roman empire this was the method god used for the propagating the christian religion . but it will not serve to make good your position , that the christian religion cannot subsist and prevail by its own strength and light , without the assistance of miracles or authority , unless you can shew , that god made use of miracles , to introduce and support it in other parts of the world , not subject to the roman empire , till the magistrates there also became christians . for the corruption of nature being the same without , as within the bounds of the roman empire ; miracles , upon your hypothesis , were as necessary to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance in other countries as in the roman empire . for i do not think you will find the civil sovereigns were the first converted in all those countries , where the christian religion was planted after constantine's reign : and in all those it will be necessary for you to shew us the assistance of miracles . but let us see how much your hypothesis is favoured by church-history . if the writings of the fathers of greatest name and credit are to be believed , miracles were not withdrawn when christianity had prevail'd to be received for the religion of the empire . athanasius , the great defender of the catholick orthodoxy , writ the life of his contemporary st. anthony , full of miracles ; which though some have question'd , yet the learned dodwell allows to be writ by athanasius : and the stile evinces it to be his , which is also confirmed by other ecclesiastical writers . palladius tells us , that ammon did many miracles : but that particularly st. athanasius related in the life of anthony , that ammon going with some monks , anthony had sent to him ; when they came to the river lycus , which they were to pass , was afraid to strip for fear of seeing himself naked ; and whilst he was in dispute of this matter , he was taken up , and in an extasy carry'd over by an angel , the rest of the monks swimming the river . when he came to anthony , anthony told him he had sent for him , because god had revealed many things to him concerning him , and particularly his translation . and when ammon died , in his retirement , anthony saw his soul carried into heaven by angels . palladius in vita ammonis . socrates tells us , that anthony saw the soul of ammon taken up by angels , as athanasius writes in the life of anthony . and again , says he , it seems supersluous for me to relate the many miracles anthony did , how he fought openly with devils , discovering all ●…heir tricks and cheats : for athanasius bishop of alexandria has prevented me on that subject , having writ a book particularly of his life . anthony was thought worthy of the vision of god , and led a life perfectly conformable to the laws of christ. this whoever reads the book , wherein is contain'd the history of his life , will easily know ; wherein he will also see prophecy shining out : for he prophesied very clearly of those who were infected with the arian contagion , and foretold what mischief from them was threatned to the churches , god truly reuealing all these things to him , which is certainly the principal evidence of the catholick faith. no such man being to be found amongst the hereticks . but do not take this upon my word , but read and study the book it self . this account you have from st. chrysostom , whom mr. dodwell calls the contemner of fables . st. hierom , in his treatise de viro perfecto , speaks of the frequency of miracles done in his time , as a thing past question : besides those , not a few which he has left upon record , in the lives of hilarion and paul , two monks , whose lives he has writ . and he that has a mind to see the plenty of miracles of this kind , need but read the collection of the lives of the fathers , made by rosweydus . russin tells us , that athanasius lodg'd the bones of st. john baptist in the wall of the church , knowing by the spirit of prophecy , the good they were to do to the next generation : and of what efficacy and use they were , may be concluded from the church with the golden roof , built to them soon after , in the place of the temple of serapis . st. austin tells us , that he knew a blind man restor'd to sight by the bodies of the millan martyrs , and some other such things ; of which kind , there were so many done in that time , that many scaped his knowledg ; and those which he knew , were more than he could number . more of this you may see epist. . he further assures us , that by the simple reliques of st. stephen , a blind woman receiv'd her sight . lucullus was cured of an old fistula ; eucharius of the stone ; three gouty men recovered ; a lad kill'd with a c art-wheel going over him , restor'd to life safe and sound , as if he had received no hurt : a nun lying at the point of death , they sent ber coat to the shrine , but she dying before it was brought back , was restor'd to life by its being laid on her dead body . the like happened at hippo to the daughter of bassus ; and two others , whose names he sets down , were by the same reliques raised from the dead . after these and other particulars there set down , of miracles done in his time by those reliques of st. stephen , the holy father goes on thus ; what shall i do ? pressed by my promise of dispatching this work , i cannot here set down all : and without doubt many , when they shall read , his , will be troubled that i have omitted so many particulars , which they truly know as well as i. for if i should , ●…assing by the rest , 〈◊〉 only the miraculous cures which have been wrought by this most glorious martyr stephen , in the colony of calama , and this of ours , i should fill many books , and yet should not take in all of them : but only of those of which there are collections published , which are read to the people : for this i took care should be done , when i saw that signs of divine power , like those of old , were frequent also in our times . it is not now two years since that shrine has been at hippo : and many of the books ( which i certainly knew to be so ) not being published , those which are published concerning those miraculous operations , amounted to near fifty when i writ this . but at calama , where this shrine was before , there are more published , and their number is incomparably greater . at uzal also a colony , and near utica , we know many famous things to have been done by the same martyr . two of those books he mentions , are printed in the appendix of the x●… tome of st. austin's works of plantius edit . one of them contains two miracles , the other , as i remember , about seventeen . so that at hippo alone , in two years time , we may count , besides those omitted , there were published above miracles , and , as he says , incomparably more at calama : besides what were done by other reliques of the same st. stephen in other parts of the world , which cannot be suppos'd to have had less virtue than those sent to this part of africa . for the reliques of st. stephen , discovered by the dream of a monk , were divided and sent into distant countries , and there distributed to several churches . these may suffice to shew , that if the fathers of the church of great it name and authority are to be believed , miracles were not withdrawn , but continued down to the latter end of the th century , long after christianity had prevailed to be received for the religion of the empire . but if these testimonies of athanas●… , chrysostom , palladius , russin , st. hierom , and st. austin , will not serve your turn , you may find much more to this purpose in the same authors ; and if you please , you may consult also st. basil , gregory nazianzen , gregory nazianzen , st. ambrose , st. hilary , theodoret , and others . this being so , you must either deny the authority of these fathers , or grant that miracles continued in the church after christianity was received for the religion of the empire : and then they could not be to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance , unless they were to supply the want of what was not wanting ; and therefore they were continued for some other end . which end of the continuation of miracles , when you are so far instructed in , as to be able to assure us , that it was different from that for which god made use of them in the d and d centuries : when you are so far admitted into the secrets of divine providence , as to be able to convince the world that the miracles between the apostles and constantine's time , or any other period you shall pitch on , were to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance , and those after , for some other purpose , what you say may deserve to be consider'd . till you do this , you will only shew the liberty you take , to assert with great confidence , though without any ground , whatever will sute your system ; and that you do not stick to make bold with the counsels of infinite wisdom , to make them subservient to your hypothesis . and so i leave you to dispose of the credit of ecclesiastical writers , as you shall think fit ; and by your authority , to establish or invalidate theirs as you please . but this , i think , is evident , that he who will build his faith or reasonings upon miracles delivered by church-historians , wi●… find cause to go no farther than the apostles time , or else not to stop at constantine's : since the writers after that period , whose word we readily take as unquestionable in other things , speak of miracles in their time with no less assurance , than the fathers before the th century ; and a great part of the miracles of the d and d centuries stand upon the credit of the writers of the th . so that that sort of argument which takes and rejects the testimony of the ancients at pleasure , as may best sute with it , will not have much force with those , who are not disposed to imbrace the hypothesis , without any arguments at all . you grant , that the true religion has always light and strength of its own , i. e. without the assistance of force or miracles , sufficient to prevail with all that consider it seriously , and without prejudice : that therefore , for which the assistance of force is wanting , is to make men consider seriously , and without prejudice . now whether the miracles , that we have still , miracles done by christ and his apostles , attested , as they are , by undeniable history , be not fitter to deal with mens prejudices , than force , and than force which requires nothing but outward conformity , i leave the world to judg . all the assistance the true religion needs from authority , is only a liberty for it , to be truly taught ; but it has seldom had that , from the powers in being , in its first entry into their dominions , since the withdrawing of miracles : and yet i desire you to tell me , into what country the gospel , accompanied ( as now it is ) only with past miracles , hath been brought by the preaching of men , who have labour'd in it after the example of the apostles , where it did not so prevail over mens prejudices , that as many as were ordain'd to eternal life , consider'd and believ'd it . which , as you may see , a●…t . xiii . . was all the advance it made , even when assisted with the gift of miracles : for neither then were all , or the majority wrought on to consider , and embrace it . but yet the gespel cannot prevail by its own light and strength ; and therefore miracles were to supply the place of force . how was force used ? a law being made , there was a continued application of punishment to all those , whom it brought not to imbrace the doctrine proposed . were miracles so used till force took place ? for this , we shall want more new church-history , and i think contrary to what we read in that part of it which is unquestionable ; i mean in the acts of the apostles , where we shall find , that the then promulgators of the gospel , when they had preach'd , and done what miracles the spirit of god directed , if they prevail'd not , they often left them : then paul and barnabas waxed bold , and said , it was necessary that the word of god should first have been spoken to you : but seeing you put it from you , and judg your selves unworthy , we turn to the gentiles . they shook off the dust of their feet against them , and came unto iconium . but when divers were hardned , and believed not , but spake evil of that way , before the multitude , he departed from them , and separated the disciples . paul was pressed in spirit , and testisied to the jews that jesus was christ ; and when they opposed themselves , and blasphemed , he shook his raiment , and said unto them , your blood be upon your own heads , i am clean , from henceforth i will go unto the gentiles . did the christian magistrates ever do so , who thought it necessary to support the christian religion by laws ? did they ever , when they had a while punish'd those , whom perswasions and preaching had not prevail'd on , give off , and leave them to themselves , and make trial of their punishment upon others ? or is this your way of force and punishment ? if it be not , your's is not what miracles came to supply the room of , and so is not necessary . for you tell us , they are punish'd to make them consider , and they can never be suppos'd to consider as they ought , whilst they persist in rejecting ; and therefore , they are justly punish'd to make them so consider : so that not so considering , being the fault for which they are punish'd , and the amendment of that fault the end which is design'd to be attain'd by punishing , the punishment must continue . but men were not always heat upon with miracles . to this , perhaps you will reply , that the seeing of a miracle or two , or half a dozen , was sufficient to procure a hearing ; but that being punish'd once or twice , or half a dozen times , is not ; for you tell us , the power of miracles communicated to the apostles , served altogether , as well as punishment , to procure them a hearing : where , if you mean by hearing , only attention , who doubts but punishment may also procure that ? if you mean by hearing , receiving and imbracing , what is propos'd , that even miracles themselves did not effect upon all eye-witnesses . why then , i beseech you , if one be to supply the place of the other , is one to be continued on those who do reject , when the other was never long continued , nor , as i think , we may safely say , often repeated to those , who persisted in their former perswasions ? after all therefore , may not one justly doubt , whether miracles supplied the place of punishment ; nay , whether you your self , if you be true to your own principles , can think so ? you tell us , that not to join themselves to the true church , where sufficient evidence is offered to convince men that it is so , is a fault that it cannot be unjust to punish . let me ask you now ; did the apostles , by their preaching and miracles , offer sufficient evidence to convince men that the church of christ was the true church ; or , which is , in this case , the same thing , that the doctrine they preach'd was the true religion ? if they did , were not those , who persisted in unbelief , guilty of a fault ? and if some of the miracles done in those days , should now be repeated , and yet men should not imbrace the doctrine , or join themselves to the church which those miracles accompanied , would you not think them guilty of a fault , which the magistrate might justly , nay , ought to punish ? if you would answer truly and sincerely to this question , i doubt you would think your beloved punishments necessary notwithstanding miracles , there being no other ●…umane means left . i do not make this judgment of you , from any ill opinion i have of your good nature , but it is consonant to your principles : for if not professing the true religion , where sufficient evidence is offer'd by bare preaching , be a fault , and a eault jus●…y to be punish'd by the magistrate , you will certainly think it much more his duty to punish a greater fault , as you must allow it is , to reject truth propos'd with , arguments and miracles , than with bare arguments : since you tell us , that the magistrate is obliged to procure , as much as in him lies , that every man take care of his own soul , i. e. consider as he ought ; which no man can be suppos'd to do , whilst he persists in rejecting : as you tell us , pag. . miracles , say you , supplied the want of force , till by their help christianity had prevailed to be received for the religion of the empire . not that the magistrates had not as much commission then , from the law of nature , to use force , for promoting the true religion , as since : but because the magistrates then , not being of the true religion , did not afford it the assistance of their political power . if this be so , and there be a necessity either of force or miracles , will there not be the same reason for 〈◊〉 ever since , even to this day , and so on to the end of the world , in all those countries where the magistrate is not of the true religion ? unless ( as you urge it ) you will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer of all things , has not furnished mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . but to put an end to your pretence to miracles , as supplying the place of force . let me ask you , whether since the withdrawing of miracles , your moderate degree of force has been made use of , for the support of the christian religion ? if not , then miracles were not made use of to supply the want of force , unless it were for the supply of such force as christianity never had , which is for the supply of just no force at all ; or else for the supply of the severities which have been in use amongst christians , which is worse than none at all . force , you say , is necessary : what force ? not eire and sword , not loss of e●…ates not maiming with corporal punishments , not st●…ving and tormenting in 〈◊〉 prisons : those you condemn . not compulsion : these severities , you say , are apter to hinder , than promote the true religion ; but moderate lower penalties , tolerable inconveniencies , such as should a little disturb and disease men. this assistance not being to be had from the magistrates , in the first ages of christianity , miracles , say you , were continued till christianity became the religion of the empire , not so much for any necessity there was of them , all that while , for the ev●…ncing the truth of the christian r●…ligion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . for the true religion not being able to support it self by its own light , and strength , without the assistance either of miracles , or of authority , there was a necessity of the one or the other ; and therefore , whilst the powers in being assisted not with necessary force , miracles supplied that want . miracles , then being to supply necessary force , and necessary force being only lower moderate penalties , some inconveni●…ncies , such as only disturb and disease a little . if you cannot shew that in all countries , where the magistrates have been christian , they have assisted with such force , 't is plain t●…at miracles supplied not the want of necessary force ; unless to supply the want of your necessary force , for a time , were to supply the want of an assistance , which true religion had not upon the withdrawing of miracles , and i think i may say , was never thought on by any authority , in any age or country , till you now , above years after , made this happy discovery . nay , sir , since the true religion , as you tell us cannot prevail or subsist without , miracles or authority , i. e. your moderate force ; it must necessarily follow , that the christian religion has , in all ages and countries , been accompanied either with actual miracles , or such force : which , whether it be so or no , i leave you and all sober men to consider . when you can shew , that it has been so , we shall have reason to be satis●… with your bold assertion : that the christian religion , as delivered in the new testament , cannot prevail by its own light , and strength , without the assistance of your moderate penalties , or of actual miracles accompanying it . but if ever since the withdrawing of miracles in all christian countries , where force has been thought necessary by the magistrate to support the national , or ( as every where it is called ) the true religion , those severities have been made use of , which you ( for a good reason ) condemn , as apter to hinder , than promote the true religion ; 't is plain that miracles supplied the want of such an assistance from the magistrate , as was apter to binder , than promote the true religion . and your substituting of miracles , to supply the want of moderate force , will shew nothing , for your cause , but the zeal of a man so sond of force , that he will without any warrant from scripture , enter into the counsels of the almighty ; and without authority from history , talk of miracles , and political anministrations , as may best sute his system . to my saying , a religion that is from god , wants not the assistance of humane authority to make it prevail ; you answer , this is not simply nor always true . indeed when god takes the matter wholly into his own hands , as he does at his first revealing any religion , there can be no need of any assistance of humane authority : but when god has once sufficiently settled his religion in the world , so that if men from thenceforth will do what ●…ey may and ought , in their several capacities , to preserve and propagate it , it may 〈◊〉 and prevail without that extraordinary assistance from him , which was necessary for its first establishment . by this rule of yours , how long was there need of miracles to make christianity subsist and prevail ? if you will keep to it , you will find there was no need of miracles , after the promulgation of the gospel by christ and his apostles ; for i ask you , was it not then so sufficiently settled in the world , that if men would from thenceforth have done what they might and ought , in their several capacities , it would have subsisted and prevailed without that extraordinary assistance of miracles ? unless you will on this occasion retract what you say in other places , viz. that it is a fault not to receive the true religion , where sufficient evidence is offered to convince men that it is so . if then from the times of the apostles , the christian religion has had sufficient evidence , that it is the true religion , and men did their duty , i. e. receive it , it would certainly have subsisted and prevailed , even from the apostles times , without that extraordinary assistance , and then miracles after that were not necessary . but perhaps you will say , that by men in their several capacities , you mean the magistrates . a pretty way of speaking , proper to you alone : but even in that sense , it will not serve your turn . for then there will be need of miracles , not only in the time you propose , but in all times after . for if the magistrate , who is as much subject as other men to that corruption of humane nature , by which you tell us false religions prevall against the true , should not do what he may and ought , so as to be of the true religion , as 't is the odds he will not , what then will become of the true religion , which according to you cannot subsist or prevail without either the assistance of miracles or authority ? subjects cannot have the assistance of authority , where the magistrate is not of the true religion ; and the magistrate wanting the assistance of authority to bring him to the true religion , that want must be still supplied with miracles , or else , according to your hypothesis , all must go to wrack ; and the true religion , that cannot subsist by its own strength and light , must be lost in the world. for i presume you are scarce yet such an adorer of the powers of the world , as to say , that magistrates are privileged from that common corruption of mankind , whose opposition to the true religion you suppose cannot be overcome , without the assistance of miracles or force . the flock will stray , unless the bell-weather conduct them right ; the bell-weather himself will stray , unless the shepherd's crook and staff ( which he has as much need of as any sheep of the flock ) keep him right . ergo , the whole flock will stray , unless the bell-weather have that assistance which is necessary to conduct him right . the case is the same here . so that by your own rule , either there was no need of miracles to supply the want of force , after the apostles time , or there is need of them still . but your answer , when looked into , has something in it more excellent . i say , a religion that is of god , wants not the assistance of humane authority to make it prevail . you answer , true , when god takes the matter into his own hands . but when once he has sufficiently settled religion , so that if men will but do what they may and ought , it may subsist without that extraordinary assistance from heaven ; then he leaves it to their care. where you suppose , if men will do their duties in their several capacities , true religion , being once establish'd , may subsist without miracles . and is it not as true , that if they will , in their several capacities , do what they may and ought , true religion will also subsist without force ? but you are sure magistrates will do what they may and ought , to preserve and propagate the true religion , but subjects will not . if you are not , you must bethink your self how to answer that old question , — sed quis custodiet 〈◊〉 custodes ? — to my having said , that prevailing without the assistance of force , i thought was made use of as an argument for the truth of christian religion . you reply , that you hope i am mistaken , for sure this is a very bad argument , that the christian religion , so contrary in the 〈◊〉 of is , as well to elesh and blood , as to the powers of darkness , should prevail as it did ; and that not only without any assistance from authority , but even in spight of all the opposition which authority and a wicked world , joined with those infernal powers , could make against it . this i acknowledg has deservedly been insisted upon by christians as a very good proof of their religion . but to argue the truth of the christian religion , from its ●…eer prevailing in the world , without any aid from force , or the assistance of the powers in being ; as is whatever religion should so prevail , must needs be the true religion , ( whatever may be intended ) is really not to desend the christian religion , but to be●…ray it . how you have mended the argument by putting in ●…eer , which is not any where used by me , i will not examine . the question is , whether the christian religion , such as it was then , ( for i know not any other christian religion ) and is still contrary to the flesh and blood , and to the powers of darkness , prevail'd not without the assistance of humane force , by those aids it has still ? this , i think , you will not deny to be an argument used for its truth by christians , and some of our church . how far any one in the use of this argument , pleases or displeases you , i am not concern'd . all the use i made of it was to shew , that it is confessed that the christian religion did prevail , without that humane means of the coactive power of the magistrate , which you assumed to be necessary ; and this , i think , makes good the experiment i brought . nor will your seeking , your way , a refuge , in miracles , help you to evade it ; as i have already shewn . but you give a reason for what you say , in these following words ; for neither does the true religion always prevail without the assistance of the powers in being ; nor is that always the true religion , which does so spread and prevail . those who use the argument of its prevailing without force , for the truth of the christian religion , 't is like will tell you , that , if it be true , as you say , that the christian religion ( which at other times does ) some-times does not prevail without the assistance of the powers in being , it is , because when it fails , it wants the due assistance and diligence of the ministers of it . how shall they hear without a preacher ? how shall the gospel be spread and prevail , if those who take on them to be the ministers and preachers of it , either neglect to teach it others as they ought , or confirm it not by their lives ? if therefore you will make this argument of any use to you , you must shew , where it was , that the ministers of the gospel , doing their duty by the purity of their lives , and their interrupted labour , in being instant in season and out of season , have not been able to make it prevail . an instance of this , 't is believed you will scarco find : and if this be the case , that it fails not to prevail where those , whose charge it is , neglect not to teach and spread it with that care , assiduity , and application which they ought , you may hereafter know where to lay the blame ; not on the want of sufficient light and strength in the gospel to prevail , ( wherein methinks , you make very bold with it ) but on the want of what the apostle requires in the ministers of it ; some part whereof , you may read in these words to timothy ; but thou , o man of god , follow after righteousness , godliness , faith , love , patience , meekness : give attendance to reading , to exhortation , to doctrine , preach the word , be instant in season and out of season ; reprove , rebuke , exhort , with all long-suffering and doctrine : and more to this purpose in his epistles to timothy and titus . that the christian religion has prevail'd , and supported it self in the world now above these years , you must grant , and that it has not been by force , is demonstration . for where-ever the christian religion prevail'd , it did it , as far as we know any thing of the means of its propagation and support , without the help of that force , moderate force , which you say , is alone useful and necessary . so that if the severities you condemn , be , as you confess , apter to hinder than promote the gospel , and it has no where had the assistance of your moderate penalties , it must follow , that it prevail'd without force , only by its own strength and light , displaid and brought home to the understandings and hearts of the people , by the preaching , intreaties and exhortations of its ministers . this at least you must grant , that force can be by no means necessary to make the gospel prevail any where , till the utmost has been tried that can be done by arguments and exhortations , prayers and intreaties , and all the friendly ways of perswasion . as to the other part of your assertion , nor is that always the true religion , that does so spread and prevail . 't is like they will demand instances of you , where false religions ever prevail'd against the gospel , without the assistance of force on the one side , or the betraying of it by the negligence and carelesness of its teachers on the other ? so that if the gospel any where wants the magistrate's assistance , it is only to make the ministers of it do their duty . i have heard of those , and possibly there are instances of it now not wanting , who by their pious lives , peaceable and friendly carriage , and diligent application to the several conditions and capacities of their parishioners , and screening them as much as they could from the penalties of the law , have in a short time scarce left a dissenter in a parish ; where , notwithstanding the force had been before used , they scarce found any other . but how far this has recommended such ministers to those who ought to incourage or follow the example , i wish you would inform your self , and then tell me . but who sees not that a justice of peace's warrant is a shorter , and much easier way for the minister , than all this ●…do of instruction , debates , and particular application . whether it be also more christian , or more effectual to make real converts , others may be apt to enquire . this , i am sure , it is not justifiable ( even by your very principles ) to be used till the other has been throughly tried . but if there be any thing in the argument for the truth of christianity , ( as god forbid there should not ) that it has , and consequently can prevail without force , i think it can scarce be 〈◊〉 in matter of fact , that false religions do also prevail against the christian religion , when they come upon equal terms in competition ; and as much diligence and industry is used by the teachers of it , as by seducers to false religions , the magistrate using his force on neither side . for if in this case , which is the fair trial , christianity can prevail , and false religions too , 't is possible contrarieties may prevail against one another both together . to make good therefore your assertion , you must shew us , where-ever any other religion so spread and prevail'd , as to drive christianity out of any country without force , where the ministers of it did their duty to teach , adorn and support it . as to the following words , nor is that always the true religion which does so spread and prevail ; as i doubt not but you will acknowledg with me , when you have but consider'd within how few generations after the flood , the worship of false gods prevail'd against that which noah professed and taught his children , which was undoubtedly the true religion , almost to the utter exclusion of it , ( though that at first was the only religion in the world ) without any aid from force , or assistance from the powers in being . this will need something more than a negative proof , as we shall see by and by . where i say , the inventions of men need the force and help of men : a religion that is from god , wants not the assistance of humane authority . the first part of those words you take no notice of ; neither grant nor deny it to be so , though perhaps it will prove a great part of the controversy between us . to my question , whether if such a toleration as is propos'd by the author of the first letter , were establish'd in france , spain , italy , portugal , &c. the true religion would not be a gainer by it ? you answer , that the true religion would be a loser by it in those few places where it is now establish'd as the national religion ; and particularly , you name england . it is then , it seems , by your way of moderate force and lower penalties , that in all countries where it is national , the true religion hath prevail'd and subsists . for the controversy is between the author 's universal toleration , and your new way of force ; for greater degrees of force , you condemn as hurtful . say then that in england , and where-ever the true religion is national , it has been beholden to your force for the advantages and support it has had , and i will yeild you the cause . but of national re ligions , and particularly that of england , i have occasion to speak more in another place . in the next place you answer , that you suppose i do not hope i shall perswade the world to consent to my toleration . i think by your logick , a proposition is not less true or false , because the world will or will not be perswaded to consent to it . and therefore , though it will not consent to a general toleration , it may nevertheless be true that it would be advantageous to the true religion : and if no body must speak truth till he thinks all the world will be perswaded by it , you must have a very good opinion of your oratory , or else you will have a very good excuse to turn your parsonage , when you have one , into a sine-cure . but though i have not so good an opinion of my gift of perswasion , as perhaps you have of yours ; yet i think i may without any great presumption hope , that i may as soon perswade england , the world , or any government in it , to consent to my toleration , as you perswade it to content it self with moderate penalties . you farther answer , if such a toleration , establish'd there , would permit the doctrine of the church of england to be truly preach'd , and its worship set up in any popish , mahometan or pagan country , you think true religion would be a gainer by it for a time ; but you think withal , that an universal toleration would ruin it both there and every where else , in the end . you grant it then possible , notwithstanding the corruption of humane nature , that the true religion may gain some where , and for some time , by toleration : it will gain under a new toleration you think , but decay under an old one ; would you had told us the reason why you think so . but you think there is great reason to fear , that without god's extraordinary providence , it wo●…ld in a much shorter time , than any one , who does not well consider the matter , will imagine , be most effectually 〈◊〉 by it throughout the world. if you have considered right , and the matter be really so , it is demonstration , that the christian religion , since constantine's time , as well as the true religion before moses's time , must needs have been totally extinguish'd out of the world , and have so continued , unless by miracle and immediate revelation restor'd . for those men , i. e. the magistrates , upon whose being of the true religion , the preservation of it , according to you , depends , living all of them under a free toleration , must needs lose the true religion effectually and speedily , from among them ; a●…d they quitting the true religion , the assistance of force , which should support it against a general defection , be utterly lost . the princes of the world are , i suppose , as well infected with the depraved nature of man , as the rest of their brethren . these , whether or , suppose they lived together in one society , wherein , with the true religion , there were a free toleration , and no coactive power of the magistrate imployed about matters of religion , would the true religion be soon extirpated amongst them ? if you say it would not , you must grant toleration not to be so destructive of the true religion , as you say ; or you must think them of another race , than the rest of corrupt men , and free from that general taint . if you grant that the true religion would be quickly extirpated amongst them , by toleration , living together in one society , the same will happen to them , living as princes , where they are free from all coactive power of the magistrate in matters of religion , and have as large a toleration as can be imagin'd . unless you will say , that depraved humane nature works less in a prince than a subject ; and is most tame , most mortified , where it has most liberty and temptation . must not then , if your maxim be true , toleration quickly deprive the few orthodox princes that are in the world ( take it when you will ) of the true religion ; and with them , take away the assistance of authority , which is necessary to support it amongst their subjects ? toleration then does not , whatever your fears are , make that woful wrack on true religion which you talk of . i shall give you another evidence of it , and then come to examine your great reason taken from the corruption of humane nature , and the instance you so often repeat , and build so much on , the apostacy after the flood . toleration , you sav , would quickly , and effectually extirpate the true reiigion throughout the world. what now is the means to preserve true religion in the world ? if you may be believed , 't is force , but not all force , great severities , fire , faggot , imprisonment , loss of estate , &c. these will do more harm than good ; 't is only lower and moderate penaltics , some tolerable inconveniences , can do the business . if then moderate force hath not been all along , no , nor any where , made use of for the preservation of the true religion , the maintenance and support of the true religion in the world , has not been owing to what you oppose to toleration : and so your argument against toleration is out of doors . you give us in this and the foregoing pages , the grounds of your fear , it is the corruption of humane nature which opposes the true religion . you express it thus , idolatry prevailing against it [ the true reigion ] not by its own light and strength , for it could have nothing of either , but meerly by the advantage it had in the corruption and pravity of humane nature , finding out to it self more agreeable religions than the true . for , say you , whatever hardships some false religions may impose , it will however , always be easier to carnal and worldly-minded men , to give even their first-born for their transgressions , than to mortify their lusts from which they spring , which no religion but the true , requires of them . i wonder , saying this , how you could any longer mistake the magistrate's duty , in reference to religion , and not see wherein force truly can and ou●…ht to be serviceable to it . what you have said , plainly shews you , that the assistance the magistrate's authority can give to the true religion , is in the subduing of lusts , and its being directed against pride , injustice , rapine , luxury and debauchery , and those other immoralities which come properly under his cognisance , and may be corrected by punishments ; and not by the imposing of creeds and ceremonics , as you tell us . sound and decent , you might have left out , whereof their fancies , and not the law of god , will always be judg and consequently the rule . the case between the true and false religions , as you have stated it , in short , sounds thus , true religion has always light and 〈◊〉 of its own sufficient to prevail with all that seriously consider it , and without prejudice . 〈◊〉 or false religions have nothing of light or strength to prevail with . why then does not the true religion prevail against the false , having so much the advantage in light and strength ? the counter-ballance of prejudice hinders . and wherein does that str●…ngth ? the drunkard must part with his cups and companions , and the voluptuous man with his pleasures . the proud and vain must lay by all excess in apparel , furniture and attendance ; and money , the support of all these , must be got only by the ways of justice , honesty , and fair industry . and every one must live peaceably , uprightly , and friendly with his neighbour . here then the magistrate's a●…istance is wanting : here they may and ought to interpose their power , and by severities , against drunkenness , laciviousnes , and all sorts of debauchery ; by a steady and unrelaxed punishment of all the ways of fraud and injustice ; and by their administration , countenance , and example , reduce the irregularities of mens manners into order , and bring sobriety , peaceableness , industry and honesty into fashion . this is their proper business every-where ; and for this they have a commission from god , both by the light of nature and revelation ; and by this , removing the great counterpoise , which lies in strictness of life , and is so strong a bias , with the greatest part , against : the true religion , they would cast the ballance on that ●…de . for if men were forced by the magistrate to live sober , honest and strict lives , whatever their religion were , would not the advantage be on the side of truth , when the gratifying of their lusts were not to be obtained by for saking her ? in mens lives lies the main obstacle to right opinions in religion : and if you will not believe me , yet what a very rational man of the church of england says in the case , will deserve to be remembred . did religion bestow heaven , without any forms and conditions , indifferently upon all ; if the crown of life was hereditary , and free to good and bad , and not settled by covenant upon the elect of god only , such as live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world ; i believe there would be no such thing as an insidel among us . and without controversy 't is the way and means of attaining to heaven , that makes profane scoffers so willing to let go the expeclation of it . 't is not the articles of the creed , but their dury to god and their neighb●…r , that is such an inconsi●…tent incredible legend . they will not practise the rules of religion , and therefore they cannot believe the doctrines of it . the ingenious author will pardon me the change of one word , which i doubt not but 〈◊〉 his opinion , though it did not so well that argument he was then on . you grant the true religion has always light , and strength to prevail ; 〈◊〉 religions have neither . take away the satisfaction of men ; lusts , and which then , i pray , hath the advantage ? will men , against the light of their reason , do violence to their understandings , and for sake truth , and salvation too , gratis ? you tell us here , no religion but the true requires of men the difficult task of mortifying their lust s. this being granted you , what service will this do you to prove a necessity of force to punish all disseuters in england ? do none of their religions require the mortisying of lusts as well as yours ? and now , let us consider your instance whereon you build so much that we hear of it over and over again . for you tell us . idolatry 〈◊〉 , but yet not by the help of force , as has been sufficiently 〈◊〉 . and again , that truth left to shift for her self , will not 〈◊〉 well enough , has been sufficiently 〈◊〉 . what you have done to shew this , is to be seen , where you tell us , within how few generations after the ●…ood , the worship of false gods prevail'd against the religion which noah professed , and taught his children , ( which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the true religion ) almost to the ●…tter exclusion of it , ( though that at 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the only religion in the world ) without any aid from ●…orce , or the assistance of the powers in being , for any thing we find in the history of those times , as we may reasonably believe , considering that it found an entrance into the world , and entertainment in it , when it could have no such aid , or assistance . of which ( besides the corruption of humane nature ) you suppose there can no other cause be assigned , or none more probable than this , that the powers then in being , did not do what they might and ought to have done , towards the preventing , or checking that horrible apostacy . here you tell us , that the worship of false gods , within a very few generations after the flood prevail'd against the true religion , almost to the ●…tter exclusion of it . this you say indeed , but without any proofs , and unless that be shewing , you have not , as you pretend , any way shewn it . out of what records , i beseech you , have you●… that the true religion was almost wholly extirpated out of the wo●…ld , within a few generations after the flood ? the scripture , the largest history we have of those times , says 〈◊〉 of it , nor does , as i remember , mention any as guilty of idolatry , within or years after the flood . in canaan it self , i do not think that you can out of any credible history 〈◊〉 , t●…at th●…re was any idolatry within ten or twelve generations after noah ; much less that it had so overspread the world and extirpated the true religion , out of that part of it where the scene lay of those actions recorded in the history of the bible . in abraham's 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 who was king of 〈◊〉 , was also the priest of the most high god. we read that god , with an immediate hand , punish'd miraculously , first 〈◊〉 , at the confusion of babel , and afterward sodom , and four other cities ; but in neither of these places is there any , the le●…st , mention of idolatry , by which they provoked god , and drew down vengeance on themselves . so that truly you have shewn nothing at all , and what the scripture shews is against you . for besides , that it is plain , b●… melchisedeck the king of sale●… and priest of the most high god , to whom abraham paid tithes , that all the land of canaan was not yet overspread with idolatry , though afterwards in the time of 〈◊〉 , by the forsciture was therefore made of it to the israelites , one may have reason to suspect it were more desiled with it , than any part of the world. besides salem , i say , he that reads the story of abimelech , will have reason to think , that he also and his kingdom , though philistines , were not then infected with idolatry . you think they , and almost all mankind were idolaters , but you may be mistaken ; and that which may serve to shew it , is the example of elijah the prophet , who was at least as infallible a guesser as you , and was as well instructed in the state and history of his own country , and time , as you can be in the state of the whole world or years ago . elijah thought that idolatry had wholly extirpated the true religion out of israel , and complains thus to god. the children of israel have for saken thy covenant , thrown down thy altars , and stain thy prophets with the sword ; and i , even i alone , am left , and they seek my life to take it away . and he is so fully perswaded of it , that he repeats it again : and yet god tells him , that he had there yet knees that had not bowed to baal , that were not idolaters : though this was in the reign of ahab , a king zealous for idolatry ; and in a kingdom set up in an idolatrous worship , which had continued the national religion , established and promoted by the continued succession of several idolatrous princes . and though the national religions soon after the flood were false , which you are far enough from proving ; how does it thence follow , that the true religion was near extirpated ? which it must needs quite have been , before st. peter's time , if there were so great reason to fear , as you tell us , that the true religion , without the assistance of force , would in a much shorter time , than any one that does not well consider the matter would imagine , be most effectually extirpated throughout the world. for above years after noah's time , st. peter tells us , that in every nation , he that search god , and worketh 〈◊〉 , is accepted by him . by which words , and by the occa●…ion on which they were spoken , it is manifest , that in countries where for years together no force had been used for the support of noah's true religion , it was not yet wholly 〈◊〉 . but that you may not think it was so near , that there was but one left , only cornelius , if you will look into acts xvii . . you will find a great multitude of them at thessalonica , and of the devo●…t greeks a great multitude believed , and consorted with paul and silas . and again , more of them in a●…ens , a city wholly given to idol●…try . for that those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we translate devout , and whereof many are mentioned in the acts , were gen●…iles , who worshipped the true god , and kept the precepts of no●… , mr. mede has abundantly proved . so that what ●…ever you , ●…ho have well considered the matter , may imagine of the shortness of time , wherein noah's religion would be effectually extirpated throughout the world , without the assistance of force , we find it at athens , at philippi , at 〈◊〉 , amongst the rom●…ns , in antioch of pisidia , in th●…ssalonica , above years after , and that not so near being extinguish'd , but that in some of those places the professors of it were numerous : at thessalonica they are call'd a great multitude : at 〈◊〉 many : and how many of them there were in other parts of the world , whereof there was no occasion to make mention in that short history of the 〈◊〉 of the apostles , who knows ? if they answered , in other places , to what were found in these , as ●…hat reason is there to suppose they should not ? i think we may imagine them to be as many , as there were effectually of the true religion christians in europe , a little before the reformation , not withstanding the assistance the 〈◊〉 religion had from authority , after the withdrawing of mira●…les . but you have a salvo , for you write warily , and endeavour to save your self on all hand●… ; you say , there is great reason to fear , that without god's extraordinary providence , it would in a much shorter time , than any one , who does not well consider the matter , would imagine , be most 〈◊〉 extirpated by it , throughout the world. 't is , without doubt , the provide●…ce of god which governs the a●…airs both of the world and his church ; and to that , whether you call it ordinary or extraordinary , you may trust the preservation of his church , without the use of such means , as he has no where appointed or authorized . you fancy force necessary to preserve the true religion , and hence you conclude the magistrate authorized , without any farther commission from god , to use it , if there be no other means left ; and therefore that must be used : if religion should be preserved without it , it is by the extraordinary providence of god ; where extraordinary signi●…cs nothing , but begging the thing in question . the true religion has been preserved many ages , in the church , without force . ay , say you , that was by the extraordinary provid●…ce of god. his providence which over-rules all events , we ea●…ly grant it : but why extraordinary providence ? because force was 〈◊〉 to preserve it . and why was force 〈◊〉 ? because otherwise , without extraordinary providence , it cannot be preserv'd . in such circles , covered under good words , but misapplied , one might shew you taking many a turn in your answer , if it were ●…it to waste others time to trace your wanderings . god has appointed preaching , teaching , perswa●…on , instruction , as a means to continue and propagate his true religion in the world ; and if it were any where preserved and propagated without that , we might call it his extraordinary providence ; but the means he has appointed being used , we may conclude , that men have done their duties , and so may leave it to his providence , however we will call it , to preserve the little flock ( which he bids not to fear ) to the end of the world. but let us return again to what you say , to make good this hypothesis of yours , that idolatry entred first into the world by the contrivance , and spread it self by the endeavours of private men , without the assistance of the magistrates , and those in power . to prove this , you tell us , that it found entrance into the world , and enterta●…nment in it , when it could have no such aid or assistance . when was this , i b●…eech you , that idolatry found this entrance into the world ? under what king's reign was it , that you are so positive it could have no such aid or assistance ? if you had named the time , the thing ( though of no great mom●…nt to you ) had been sure . but now we may very justly question this bare assertion of yours . for since we find , as far back as we have any history of it , that the great men of the world were always forward to set up and promote idolatry and false religions , you ought to have given us some reason why , without authority from history , you a●…irm that idolatry , at its entrance into the world , had not that assistance from men in power , which it never fail'd of afterwards . who they were that made israel to sin , the scripture tells us . their kings were so zealous promoters of idolatry , that there is 〈◊〉 one of them , that has not that brand left upon him in holy writ . one of the first false religions , whose rise and way of propagating we have an account of in sacred history , was by an ambitious usurper , who having rebell'd against his master , with a false title set up a false religion , to secure his power and dominion . why this might not have been done before jeroboam's days , and idols set up at other places , as well as at dan and bethel , to serve politick ends , will need some other proof , than barely saying , it could not be so at first . the devil , unless much more ignorant , was not less busy in those days to engage princes in his favour , and to weave religion into affairs of state , the better to introduce his worship , and support idolatry , by accommodating it to the ambition , vanity , or superstition , of men in power : and therefore , you may as well say , that the corruption of humane nature , as that the assistance of the powers in being , did not , in those days , help forward false religions ; because your reading has furnish'd you with no particular mention of it out of history . but you need but say , that the worship of false gods prevail'd without any aid from force , or the assistance of the powers in being , for any thing we find in the history of those times , and then you have sufficiently 〈◊〉 , what ? even that you have just nothing to shew for your assertion . but whatever that any thing is , which you find in history , you may meet with men ( whose reading yet i will not compare with yours ) who think they have found in history , that princes and those in power , first corrupted the true religion , by setting up the images and symbols of their predecessors in their temples ; which , by their influence , and the ready obedience of the priests they appointed , were in succession of time , propos'd to the people as objects of their worship . thus they think they find in history that 〈◊〉 , queen of egypt , with her counsellor thoth , instituted the funeral-rites of king osir●… , by the honour done to the sacred ox. they think they find also in history , that the ●…ame thoth , who was also king of egypt in his turn , invented the figures of the first egyptian gods , saturn , dagon , jupiter hammon , and the rest : that is , the figures of their statues or idols ; and that he instituted the worship and sacrifices of these gods : and his institutions were so well assisted by th●…se in authority , and observed by the 〈◊〉 they set up , that the worship of those gods soon became the religion of that , and a pattern to other nations . and here we may perhaps , with good reason , place the rise and original of idolatry after the flood , there being nothing of this kind more ancient . so ready was the ambition , vanity , or superstition of princes , to introduce their predecessors into the divine worship of the people , to secure to themselves the greater veneration from their subjects , as descended from the gods ; or to erect such a worship , and such a priesthood , as might awe the blinded and seduced people into that obedience they desired . thus ham , by the authority of his successors , the rulers of egypt , is first brought for the honour of his name and memory into their temples , and never left , till he is erected into a god , and made jupiter hammon , &c. which fashion took afterwards with the princes of other countries . was not the great god of the eastern nations , baal , or jupiter bel●… , one of the first kings of assyria ? and which , i pray , is the more likely , that courts , by their instruments the priests , should thus advance the honour of kings amongst the people for the ends of ambition and power ; or the people find out these resined ways of doing it , and introduce them into courts for the enslaving themselves ? what idolatry does your history tell you of among the greeks , before phoroncus and danaus , kings of the argives , and cecrops and theseus kings of 〈◊〉 , and cadmus king of thebes , introduced it ? an art of rule 't is probable they borrowed from the egyptians . so that if you had not vouch'd the silence of history , without consulting it , you would possibly have found , that in the first ages , princes , by their influence and aid , by the help and artisice of the priests they imploy'd , their fables of their gods , their mysteries and oracles , and all the assistance they could give it by their authority , did so much against the truth , before direct force was grown into fashion , and appear'd openly , that there would be little reason of putting the guard and propagation of the true religion , into their hands now , and arming them with force to promote it . that this was the original of idolatry in the world , and that it was borrowed by other magistrates from the egyptians , is farther evident in that this worship was setled in egypt , and grown the national religion there , before the gods of greece , and several other idolatrous countries , were bo●… . for though they took their pattern of deifying their deceased princes , from the egyptians , and kept , as near as they could , to the number and genealogies of the egyptian gods ; yet they took the names still of some great men of their own , which they accommodated to the mythology of the egyptians . thus , by the assistance of the powers in being , idolatry entred into the world after the flood . whereof , if there were not so clear footsteps in history , why yet should you not imagine princes and magistrates , ingaged in false religions , as ready to imploy their power for the maintaining and promoting their false religions , in those days , as we find them now ? and therefore , what you say in the next words , of the entrance of idolatry into the world , and the it sound in it , will not pass for so very evident without proof , though you tell us never so considently , that you suppose , besides the corruption of humane nature , there can no other carse be assigned of it , or none more probable than this , that the powers then in being , did not what they might and ought to have done ( 〈◊〉 . e. if you mean it to your purpose , use force your way , to make men consider , or to impose creeds and ways of worship ) towards the 〈◊〉 or checking that horrible apostacy . i grant that the entranee and growth of idolatry , might be owing to the negligence of the powers in being , in that they did not do what they might and ought to have done , in using their authority to suppress the enormities of mens manners , and correct the irregularity of their lives . but this was not all the assistance they gave to that horrible apostacy : they were , as for as history gives us any light , the promoters of it , and leaders in it , and did what they ought not to have done , by setting up false religions , and using their authority to establish them to serve their corrupt and ambitious designs . national religions , establish'd by authority , and inforced by the powers in being , we hear of every where , as far back as we have any account of the rise and growth of the religions of the world. shew me any place , within those few generations , wherein you say the 〈◊〉 prevail'd after the flood , where the magistrates , being of the true religion , the subjects by the liberty of a toleration , were lead into false religions , and then you will produce something against liberty of cons●…ience . but to talk of that great apostacy , as wholly owing to toleration , when you cannot produce one instance of toleration then in the world , is to say what you please . that the majority of mankind were then , and always have been , by the corruption and pravity of humane nature , led away , and kept from imbracing the true religion , is past doubt . but whether this be owing to toleration , in matters of religion , is the question . david describes an horrible corruption and apostacy in his time , so as to say , there is none that doth good , no not one ; and yet i do not think you will say , a toleration , then in that kingdom , was the cause of it . if the greatest part cannot be ill without a toleration , i am afraid you must be fain to find out a toleration in every country , and in all ages of the world. for i think it is true , of all times and places , that the broad way that leadeth to destruction , has had most travellers . i would be glad to know where it was that force , your way apply'd , i. e. with punishments only upon nonconformists , ever prevail'd to bring the greater number into the narrow-way , that leads unto life ; which our saviour tells us , there are sew that sind . the corrup●…on of humane nature , you say , opposes the true religion . i grant it you . there was also , say you , an horrible apostacy after the flood ; let this also be granted you : and yet from hence it will not follow , that the true religion cannot subsist and prevail in the world without the assistance of force , your way apply'd , till you have shewn , that the false religions , which were the inventions of men , grew up under toleration , and not by the encouragement and assistance of the powers in being . how near soever therefore , the true religion was to be extinguish'd within a few generations after the flood , ( which whether more in danger then , than in most ages since , is more than you can shew . ) this will be still the question , whether the liberty of toleration , or the authority of the powers in being , contributed most to it ? and whether there can be no other , nor more probable cause assigned , than the want of force , your way apply'd , i shall leave the reader to judg . this i am sure , whatever causes any one else shall assign , are as well proved as yours , if they offer them only as their conjectures . not but that i think men could run into false and foollsh ways of worship , without the instigation or assistance of humane authority ; but the powers of the world , as far as we have any history , having been always forward enough ( true religion as little serving princes as private mens lusts ) to take up wrong religions , and as forward to imploy their authority to 〈◊〉 the religlon , good or bad , which they had once taken up , i can see no reason why the not using of force , by the princes of the world , should be assigned as the sole , or so much as the most probable cause of propagating the false religions of the world , or extirpating the true ; or how you can so positively say , idolatry prevail'd without any assistauce from the powers in being . since therefore history leads us to the magistrates , as the authors and promoters of idolatry in the world , to which we may suppose their not supressing of vice , joined as another cause of the spreading of false religions , you were best consider , whether you can still suppose there can no other cause be assigned , of the prevailing of the worship of false gods , but the magistrate's not interposing his authority in matters of religion . for that that cannot with any probability at all be assigned as any cause , i shall give you this further reason . you impute the prevailing of false religions , to the corruption and pravity of humane nature , left to it self , unbridled by authority . now , if force , your way applied , does not at all bridle the corruption and pravity of humane nature , the magistrate's not so interposing his authority , cannot be assigned as any cause at : all of that apostacy . so that let that apostacy have what rise , and spreas as far as you please , it will not make one jot for force , your way applied , or shew that that can receive any assistance your way from authority . for your use of authority and force , being only to bring mento an outward conformity to the national religion , it leaves the corruption and prauity of humane nature , as unbridled as before ; as i have shewn elsewhere . you tell us , that it is not true , that the true religion will preuail by its own light and strength , without miracles , or the assistance of the powers in being , because of the corruption of humane nature . and for this you give us an instance in the apostacy presently after the flood . and you tell . us , that without the 〈◊〉 of force it would presently be extirpated out of the world. 〈◊〉 the corruption of humane nature be so universal , and so strong , that , without the help of force , the true religion is too weak to stand it , and cannot at all prevail , without miracles or force ; how come men ever to be converted , in countries where the national religion is false ? if you say by extraordinary providence , what that amounts to , has been shewn . if you say this corruption is so potent in all men , as to oppese and prevail against the gospel , not assisted by force or miracles , that is not true . if in most men , so it is still , even where force is used . for i desire you to name me a country , where the greatest part are really and truly christians , such as you confidently believe christ , at the last day , will own to be so . in england , having , as you do , excluded all the dissenters ( or else why would you have them punish'd , to bring them to imbrace the true religion ? ) you must , i fear , allow your self a great latitude in thinkiing , if you think that the corruption of humane nature , does not so far prevail , even amongst conformists , as to make the ignorance , and lives , of great numbers amongst them , such as sutes not at all with the spirit of ●…ue christianity . how great their ignorance may be , in the more spiritual and elevated parts of the christian religion , may be guessed , by what the reverend bishop , before cited , says of it , in reference to a rite of the church ; the most easy and obvious to be instructed in , and understood . his words are , in the common management of that holy right [ consirmation ] it is but too uisible , that of those multitudes that croud to it , the far greater part co●… meerly as if they were to receive the 〈◊〉 blossing , without any sense of the vow made by them , and of their renewing their baptismal engagements in it . and if origen were now alive , might he not sind many in our church to whom these words of his * might be apply'd ; whose faith signifi●…only 〈◊〉 much , and goes no farther than this , viz. that they come duly to the church , and how their heads to the priests ? &c. for it seems it was then the fashion to bow to the priest as it is now to the altar . if therefore you say force is necessary , because without it no men will so consider as to imbrace the true religion , for the salvation of their souls , that i think is manifestly false . if you say it is necessary to use such means as will make the greatest part so imbrace it , you must use some other means than force , your way applied , for that does not so far work on the majority . if you say it is necessary , because possibly it may work on some , which bare preaching , and perswasion , will not : i answer , if possibly your moderate punishments may work on some , and therefore they are necessary , 't is as possible , that greater punishments may work on others , and therefore they are necessary , and so on to the utmost severities . that the corruption of humane nature is every where spread , and that it works powerfully in the children of disobedience , who received not the love of the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousness ; and therefore god gives them up to believe a lie , no body , i think , will deny . but that this corruption of humane nature works equally in all men , or in all ages ; and so , that god will , or ever did , give up all men , not restrained by force , your way modified and applied , to believe a lie , ( as all false religions are ) that i yet see no reason to grant . nor will this instance of noah's religion , you so much rely on , ever perswade , till you have proved , that from those eight men which brought the true religion with them into the new world , there were not eight thousand , or eighty thousand , which retain'd it in the world in the worst times of the apostacy . and secondly , till you have proved , that the false religions of the world prevail'd , without any aid from force , or the assistance of the powers in being . and thirdly , that the decay of the true religion was for want of force , your moderate force , neither of which you have at all proved , as , i think it manifest . one consideration more touching noah , and his religion , give me leave to suggest , and that is ; if force were so necessary for the support of the true religion , as you make it , 't is strange god , who gave him precepts about other things , should never reveal this to him , nor any body else , that i know . to this , you , who have confessed the scripture not to have given the magistrate this commission , must say , that it is plain enough in the commission that he has from the law of nature , and so needed not any revelation , to instruct the magistrate in the right he has to use force . i confess the magistrates have used force in matters of religion , and have been as considently and constantly put upon it by their priests , as if they had as clear a commission from heaven , as st. peter had to preach the gospel to the gentiles . but yet 't is plain , notwithstanding that commission from the law of nature , there needs some farther instruction from revelation , since it does not appear , that they have found out the right use of force , such as the true religion requires for its preservation ; and though you have after several thousands of years , at last , discovered it , yet it is very 〈◊〉 , you not being able to tell , if a law were now to be made against those who have not consider'd as they ought , what are those moderate penalties which are to be imployed against them , though yet without that all the rest signifies nothing . but however doubtful you are in this , i am glad to find you so direct , in putting mens rejecting the 〈◊〉 religion , upon the difficulty they have to 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 , which the true religion requires of them , and i desire you to remember it in other places , where i have occasion to mind you of it . to conclude , that we may see the great advantage your cause will receive from that instance , you so much rely on , of the apostacy after the flood ; i shall oppose another to it . you say , that idolatry prevail'd in the world , in a few generations , almost to the ●…tter exclusion of the true religion , without any aid from force , or assistance of the powers in being , by reason of toleration . and therefore , you think there is great reason to fear , that the trac religion would , by toleration , quickly be most effectually extirpated thoughout the world. and i say , that after christianity was received for the religion of the empire , and whilst political laws , and force , interposed in it , an horrible apostacy prevail'd 〈◊〉 most the ●…tter exclusion of the true religion , and a general introducing of idolatry . and therefore i think there is great reason to fear more harm than good , from the use of force in religion . this i think as good an argument against , as yours for force , and something better ; since what you build on is only presum'd by you , not proved from history : whereas the matter of fact here is well known , nor will you deny it , when you consider the state of religion in christendom under the assistance of that force , which you tell us , succeeded and supplied the place of withdrawn miracles , which in your opinion , are so necessary in the absence of force , that you make that the reason of their continuance ; and tell us , they were continued ●…ill force could be had ; not so much for evincing the truth of christian religion , as to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance . so that when ever force fail'd , there , according to your hypothesis , are miracles to supply its want ; for without one of them , the true religion ( if we may believe you ) will soon be ●…terly extirpated ; and what force , in the absence of miracles , produced in christendoin several ages before the reformation , is so well known , that it will be hard to find what service your way of arguing will do any but the romish religion . but to take your argument in its full latitude , you say , but you say it without book , that there was once a toleration in the world to the almost utter extirpation of the true religion ; and i say to you , that as far as records authorize either opinion , we may say force has been always used in matters of religion , to the great prejudice of the true religion , and the professors of it . and there not being an age wherein you can shew me , upon a fair trial of an establish'd national toleration , that the true religion was extirpated , or indangered , so much as you pretend by it : whereas there is no age ( whereof we have sufficient history to judg of this matter ) wherein it will not be easy to find that the true religion , and its followers , suffered by force . you will in vain endeavour , by instances , to prove the ill effects , or uselesness of toleration , such as the author proposed , which i challenge you to shew me was ever yet set up in the world , or that the true religion sufferd by it ; and 't is to the want of it , the restraints and disadvantages the true religion has laboured under , and it s so little spreading in the world will justly be imputed ; until , from better experiments , you have something to say against it . our saviour has promised that he will build his church on this fundamental truth , that he is christ the son of god ; so that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it : and this i believe , though you tell us the true religion is not able to subsist without the assistance of force , when miracles cease . i do not remember that our saviour any where promises any other assistance but that of his spirit , or gives his little flock any encouragement to expect much countenance or help from the great men of the world , or the coercive power of the magistrates , nor any where authorizes them to use it for the support of his church ; not many wise men after the flesh ; not many mighty , not many noble , is the stile of the gospel ; and i believe will be found to belong to all ages of the church militant , past and to come , as well as to the first : for god , as st. paul tells us , has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise , and the weak things of the world to confound the mighty ; and this not only till miracles ceased , but ever since . to be hated for christ's name sake , and by much tribulation to enter into the kingdom of heaven , has been the general and constant lot of the people of god , as well as it seems to be the current strain of the new testament ; which promises nothing of secular power or greatness ; says nothing of kings being nursing fathers , or queens nursing mothers : which prophecy , whatever meaning it have , 't is like our saviour would not have omitted to support his church with some hopes and assurance of such assistance , if it were to have any accomplishment before his second coming ; when israel shall come in again , and with the gentiles make up the fulness of his glorious kingdom . but the tenor of the new testament is , all that will live godly in jesus christ , shall suffer persecution , tim. iii. in your argument consider'd , you tell us , that no man can fail of finding the way of salvation that seeks it as he ought . in my answer , i take notice to you , that the places of scripture you cite to prove it , point out this way of seeking as we ought , to be a good life ; as particularly that of st. john , if any one will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god : upon which i use these words . so that these places , if they prove what you cite them for , that no man can fail of finding the way of salvation , who seeks it as the ought ; they do also prove , that a good life is the only way to seek as we ought ; and that therefore , the magistrates , if they would put men upon seeking the way of salvation as they ought , should by their laws and penalties force them to a good life ; a good conversation being the surest and readiest way to a right understanding . and that if magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against vice , in whomsoever it is found , true religion will be spread wider — than ever hitherto it has been by the imposition of creeds and ceremonies . to this you reply , whether the magistrates setting themselves severely and impartially against what you suppose i call vice , or the imposition of sound creeds and decent ceremonies , does more conduce to the spreading the true religion , and rendring it fruitful in the lives of its professors , we need not examine ; you confess , you think , both together do best ; and this , you think , is as much as needs be 〈◊〉 to that paragraph . if it had been put to you , whether a good living , or a good prebend would more conduce to the enlarging your fortune , i think it would be allow'd you as no improper or unlikely answer , what you say here , i think both together would do best ; but here the case is otherwise , your thinking determines not the point : and other people of equal authority , may , and i will answer for it , do think otherwise : but because i pretend to no authority , i will give you a reason , why your thinking is insufficient . you tell us , that force is not a fit means , where it is not necessary as well as useful ; and you prove it to be necessary because there is no other means left . now if the severity of the magistrate , against what i call vice , will , as you will not deny , promote a good life , and that be the right way to seek the truths of religion , here is another means besides imposing , of creeds and ceremonies , to promote true religion ; and therefore , your argument for it necessity because of no other means left , being gone , you cannot say both together are best , when one of them being not necessary , is therefore , by your own confession , not to be used . i having said , that if 〈◊〉 an indirect and at a distance usefulness were sufficient to justify the use of force , the 〈◊〉 might make his subjects eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven : you reply , that you suppose i will not say castration is necessary , because you hope i acknowledge , that marriage , and that grace which god denies to none , who seriously ask it , are sufficient for that purpose . and i hope you acknowledg , that preaching , admonitions and instructions , and that grace which god denies to none who seriously ask it , are sufficient for salvation . so that by this answer of yours , there being no more necessity of force to make men of the true religion , than there is of castration to make men chaste , it will still remain that the magistrate , when he thinks fit , may , upon your principle ; , as well castrate men to make them chaste , as use force to make them imbrace the truth that must save them . if castration be not 〈◊〉 , because marriage and the grace of god is sufficient , without it ; nor will force be necessary , because preaching , and the grace of god is sufficient without it ; and this , i think , by your own rule , where you tell us , where there are many useful means , and some of them are sufficient without the rest , there is no necessity of using them all . so that you must either quit your necessity of force , or take in castration , too , which however , it might not go down with the untractable and desperately perverse and obstinate people in these western countries , yet is a doctrine , you may hope , may meet with a better reception in the ottoman empire , and recommend you to some of my mahometans . to my saying , if what we are apt to think useful , were thence to be concluded so we might be in danger to be obliged to believe the pretended miracle of the church of rome , by your way of reasoning ; unless we will say ( that which without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things , does not use all useful means for promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . this , i think , will conclude as much for miracles as for force : you reply , you think it will not ; for in the place i intend , you speak not of useful , but of competent , i. e. sufficient means : now competent , or sufficient means are necessary ; but you think no man will say that all useful means are so : and therefore though , as you 〈◊〉 , it cannot be said without 〈◊〉 , that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things has not furnish'd mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls ; yet it is very agreeable with pie●…y , and with truth too , to say that he does not now use all useful means : because as none of his attributes obliges him to use more than sufficient means ; s , he may use sufficient means , without using all useful means . for where there are many useful means , and some of them are sufficient without the rest , there is no necessity of using them all . so that from god 's not using miracles now , to promote the true religion , i cannot conclude that he does not think them useful now , but only that he does not think them necessary . and therefore , though what we are apt to think useful , were thence to be concluded so ; yet if whatever is useful , be not 〈◊〉 to be concluded necessary , there is no reason to fear that we should be obliged to believe the miracles pretended to by the church of rome . for if miracles be not now necessary , there is no inconv●…nience in thinking the miracles pretended to by the church of rome , to be but pretended miracles . to which i answer , put it how you will , for competent means , or useful means , it will conclude for miracles still as much as for force . your words are these , if such a degree of outward force , as 〈◊〉 been mentioned , be really of great and necessary use for the advancing these ends , as taking the world as we find it , you say , you think it appears to be ; then it must be acknowledg'd there is a right somewhere to use it for the advancing those ends ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer of all things , has not furnish'd mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . what , i beseech you , now is the sum of this argument , but this , force is of great and 〈◊〉 use ; therefore , the wise and benign disposer of all things , who will not leave mankind unfurnish'd ( which it would be impiety to say ) of competent means for the promoting his honour in the world , and the good of souls , has given somewhere a right to use it ? let us try it now , whether it will not do as well for miracles . miracles are of great and necessary use , ( as great and necessary at least as force ; ) therefore , the wise and benign disposer of all things , who will not leave mankind unfurnish'd ( which it would be impiety to say ) of competent means for the promoting his honour in the world , and the good of so●…ls , has given somewhere a power of miracles . i ask you , when i in the second letter used your own words , apply'd to miracles instead of force , would they not conclude then as well for miracles as for force . for you must remember there was not then in all your scheme one word of miracles to supply the place of force . force alone was mention'd , force alone was necessary , all was laid on force . nor was it easy to divine , that miracles should be taken in , to mend the defects of your hypothesis , which in your answer to me , you now have done , and i easily allow it , without holding you to any thing you have said , and shall always do so . for seeking truth , and not triumph , as you frequently suggest , i shall always take your hypothesis as you please to reform it , and either imbrace it , or shew you why i do not . let us see therefore , whether this argument will do any better now your scheme is mended , and you make force or miracles necessary . if force or miracles are of great and necessary use for the promoting true religion , and the salvation of souls , then it must be acknowledged , that there is somewhere a right to use the one , or a power to do the other , for the advancing those ends ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and be●…ign disposer and governor of all things has not furnish'd mankind with competent mean ; for the promoting his own honour , and the good of souls . from whence it will follow , if your argument be good , that where men have not a right to use force , there still we are to expect miracles , unless we will say , &c. now where the magistrates are not of the true religion , there by this part of your scheme , there is a right in no body to use force ; for if there were , what need of miracles ( as you tell us there was ) in the first ages of christianity , to supply that want ? since the magistrates , who were of false religions then , were furnish'd with as much right , if that were enough , as they are now . so that where the magistrates are of false religions , there you must , upon your principles , affirm miracles are still to supply the want of force ; unless you will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things , hath not furnish'd mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of so●…ls . now how far this will favour the pretences of the church of rome to miracles in the east and west-indies , and other parts not under popish governments , you were best consider . this is evident , that in all countries where the true religion is not received for the religion of the state , and supported and encouraged by the laws of it , you must allow miracles to be as necessary now , as ever they were any where in the world , for the supply of the want of force , before the magistrates were christians . and then what advantage your doctrine gives to the church of rome , is very visible . for they , like you , supposing theirs the one only true religion , are supply'd by you with this argument for it , viz. that the true religion will not prevail by its own light and strength , without the assistance of miracles or authority . which are the competent means , which , without impiety , it cannot be said , that the wise and benign disposer and governor of all things , has not furnish'd mankind with . from whence they will not think it hard to draw this consequence ; that therefore the wise and benign governor of all things , has continued in their church the power of miracles ( which yours does not so much as pretend to ) to supply the want of the magistrate's assistance , where that cannot be had to make the true religion prevail . and if a papist should press you with this argument , i would gladly know what you would reply to him . though thi●… be enough to make good what i said , yet since i seek truth , more than my own justification , let us examine a little , what 't is you here say of competent means : competent means , you say , are necessary ; but you think no man will say , all useful means are so . if you think you speak plain clear determin'd sense , when you used this good english word competent , i pity you : if you did it with skill , i send you to my pagans and 〈◊〉 . but this safe way of talking , though it be not altogether so clear , yet it so often occurs in you , that 't is hard to judg , whether it be art or nature . now pray what do you mean by mankind's being furnish'd with competent means ? if it be such means as any are prevail'd on by to imbrace the truth that must save them , preaching is a competent means ; for by preaching alone , without force , many are prevail'd on , and become truly christians ; and then your force , by your own confession , is not necessary . if by competent , you understand such means by which all men are prevail'd on , or the majority , to become truly christians , i fear your force is no competent means . which way ever you put 〈◊〉 , you must acknowledg mankind to be destitute of competent means , or your moderate force not to be that necessary competent means : since whatever right the magistrates may have had any where to use it , where-ever it has not been used , ( let the cause be what it will that kept thi●… means from being used , there the people have been destitute of that means . but you will think there is little reason to complain of obscurity , you having abundantly explain'd what you mean by competent , in saying , competent , i. e. sufficient means . so that we have nothing to do but to find out what you mean by sufficient : and the meaning of that word , in your use of it , you happily give us in these following , what does any man mean by sufficient evidence , but such as will certainly win assent where-ever it is duly consider'd ? apply this to your means , and then tell me , whether your force be such competent , i. e. sufficient means ; that it certainly produced imbracing the tr●… , where-ever it was duly , i. e. your way apply'd ; if it did not , 't is plain it is not your competent sufficient means , and so the world , without any such imputation to the divine wisdom and benignity , might be without it . if you will say it was sufficient , and did produce that end where-ever it was apply'd , i desire you then to tell me whether mankind hath been always furnish'd with competent means . you have it now in your choise , either to talk impiously or renounce force , and disown it to be competent means ; one of the two i do not see how , by your own argument , you can avoid . but to lay by your competent and sufficient means , and to ease you of the uncertainty and difficulty you will be in to determine what is so , in respect of mankind ; i suppose it will be little less impious to say , that the wise and benign disposer and governor hath not furnish'd mankind with necessary means , as to say he hath not furnish'd them with competent means . now , sir , if your moderate penalties , and nothing else , be , since the withdrawing of miracles , this necessary means , what will be left you to say , by your argument , of the wisdom and benignity of god in all those countries , where moderate penalties are not made use of ? where men are not furnish'd with this means to bring them to the true religion ? for unless you can say , that your moderate penalties have been constantly made use of in the world for the support and encouragement of the true religion , and to bring men to it , ever since the withdrawing of miracles , you must con●…s , that not only some countries , ( which yet were enough against you ) but mankind in general , have been unfurnish'd of the necessary means for the promoting the honour of god in the world , and the salvation of mens souls . this argument out of your own mouth ( were there no other ) is sufficient to shew the weakness and unreasonableness of your scheme ; and i hope the due , consideration of it , will make you cautious another time , how you intitle the wisdom and benignity of god to the support of what you once fancy to be of great and necessary use . i having thereupon said , let us not therefore be more wise than our maker in that stupendous and supernatural work of our salvation , the scripture , &c. you reply , though the work of our salvation be , as i justly call it , stupendous and supernatural ; yet you suppose no sober man doubts , but it both admits , and ordinarily requires the use of natural and humane means , in subordination to that grace which works it . if you had taken notice of these immediately following words of mine , the scripture that reveals it to us , contains all that we can know or do , in order to it ; and where that is silent , 't is presumption in us to direct ; you would not have thought what you here say a sufficient answer : for though god does make use of natural and humane means in subordination to grace , yet it is not for man to make use of any means , in subordination to his grace , which god has not appointed , out of a conceit it may do some service indirectly and at a distance . the whole covenant and work of grace , is the contrivance of god's infinite wisdom . what it is , and by what means he will dispense his grace , is known to us by revelation only ; which is so little suted to humane wisdom , that the apostle calls it the foolishness of preaching . in the scripture , is contain'd all that revelation , and all things necessary for that work , all the means of grace : there god has declared all what he would have done for the salvation of souls ; and if he had thought force necessary to be join'd with the foolishness of preaching , no doubt but he would some where or other have reveal'd it , and not left it to the wisaom of man : which how disproportion'd and opposite it is to the ways and wisdom of god in the gospel , and how unfit to be trusted in the business of salvation , you may see cor. i. from v. , to the end . the work of grace admits , and or dinarily requires the use of natural and bumane means . i deny it not : let us now hear your inference ; therefore till i have shewn that no penal laws , that can be made , can do any service towards the salvation of mens souls in subordination to god's grace , or that god has forbidden the magistrate to use force , ( for so you ought to put it ; ) but you rather choose ( according to your ordinary way ) to use general and doubtful words ; and therefore you say , to serve him in that great work with the authority which he has given him , there will be no occasion for the caution i have given , not to be wiser than our maker in that stupendous work of our salvation . by which way of arguing , any thing that i cannot shew , cannot possibly , cannot indirectly and at a distance , or by accident , do any service , or god has not forbidden , may be made use of for the salvation of souls . i suppose you mean expresly forbidden , for else i might think these words , [ who has required this at your hands ? ] a sufficient prohibition of it . the sum of your argument is what cannot be shew'd not to do any service , may be used as an humane means in subordination to grace , in the work of salvation . to which i reply , that what may , through the grace of god , sometimes do some service , cannot without a farther warrant from revelation , than such an usefulness be requir'd , or made use of as a subordinate means to grace . for if so , then auricular confession , penance , pilgrimages , processions , &c. which no body can shew , do not ever do any service , at least , indirectly and at a distance , towards the salvation of souls . 't is not enough that it cannot be shewn that it cannot do any service to justify its usefulness ; for what is there that may not , indirectly and at a distance , or by accident , do some service ? to shew that it is an humane means , that god has no where appointed , in subordination to grace , in the supernatural work of salvation , is enough to prove it an unwarrantable boldness to use it : and much more so in the present case of force , which , if put into the magistrate's hands with power to use it in matters of religion , will do more harm than good ; as i think i have sufficiently shewon . and therefore , since according to you , the magistrate's commission , to use force for the salvation of souls , is from the law of nature ; which commission reaches to none , since the revelation of the gospel , but christian magistrates ; 't is more natural to conclude , ( were there nothing else in the case but the silence of scripture ) that the christian magistrate has no such power , because he has no such commission any where in the gospel , wherein all things are appointed necessary to salvation ; than that there was so clear a commission given to all magistrates by the law of nature , that it is necessary to shew a prohibition from revelation , if one will deny christian magistrates to have that power . since the commission of the law of nature to magistrates , being only that general one , of doing good according to the best of their judgments : if that extends to the use of force in matters of religion , it will abundantly more oppose than promote the true religion , if force in the case has any efficacy at all , and so do more harm than good : which though it shews not , ( what you here demand ) that it can not do any service towards the salvation of mens souls , for that cannot be shewn of any thing ; yet it shews the disservice it does , is so much more , than any service can be expected from it , that it can never be proved , that god has given power to magistrates to use it by the commission they have of doing good , from the law of nature . but 〈◊〉 you tell me , till i have 〈◊〉 that force and penalties cannot do any service towards ●…he sa●…ation of souls , there will be no occa●…ion for the caution i gave you , not to be wiser than our maker in that stupendous and supernatural work , you have forgot your own 〈◊〉 , that it is not enough to authorize the use of force , that it may be useful , if it be not also necessary . and when you can prove such means necessary , which though it cannot be shewn , never upon any occasion , to do any service ; yet may be , and is abundantly shewn , to do so little service , and so uncertainly , that if it be used , it will , if it has any efficacy , do more harm than good : if you can , i say , prove such a means as that necessary , i think i may yield you the cause . but the use of it has so much certain harm , and so little and uncertain good in it , that it can never be suppos'd included or intended in the general commission to the magistrates , of doing good : which may serve for an answer to your next paragraph . only let me take notice , that you here make this commission of the law of nature to extend the use of force , only to induce those , who would not otherwise , to hear what may and ought to move them to imbrace the truth . they have heard all that is offered to move them to imbrace , i. e. believe , but are not moved : is the 〈◊〉 by the law of nature commission'd to punish them for what is not in their power ? for faith is the gift of god , and not in a man's power : or is the magistrate commission'd by the law of nature , which impowers him in general , only to do them good ? is he , i say , commission'd to make them lie , and 〈◊〉 that which they do not believe ? and is this for their good ? if he punish them till they imbrace , i. e. believe , he punishes them for what is not in their power ; if till they imbrace , i. e. barely prosess , he punishes them for what is not for their good : to neither of which , can he be commission'd by the law of nature . to my saying , till you can shew us a 〈◊〉 in scripture , it will be fit for us to obey that 〈◊〉 of the gospel , mark . . which bids us take ●…eed what we 〈◊〉 . you reply , that this you suppose is only intended for the 〈◊〉 reader ; for it ought to be renderd , attend to what you hear ; which you prove out of 〈◊〉 . what if i or my readers are not so learned , as to understand either the greek original , or 〈◊〉 latin comment ? or if we did , are we to be blamed for understanding the scripture in that sense , which the national , i. e. ( as you say ) the true reli●…ion authorizes , and which you tell us , would be a fault in us if we did not believe ? for if , as you suppose , there be sufficient provision made in england for instructing all men in the truth , we cannot then but take the words in this sense , it being that which the publick authority has given them ; for if we are not to follow the sense as it is given us in the transtation authorized by our governors , and used in our worship establish'd by law , but must seek it elsewhere , 't will be hard to find , how there is any other provision made for instructing men in the sense of the scripture , which is the truth that must save them , but to leave them to their own inquiry and judgment , and to themselves , to take whom they think best for interpreters and expounders of scripture , and to quit that of the true church , which she has given in her translation . this is the liberty you take to differ from the true church , when you think ●…it , and it will serve your purpose . she says , take take what you hear ; but you say , the true sense is , 〈◊〉 to what you hear . methinks you should not be at such variance with distenters ; for after all , nothing is so like a nonconformist as a conformist . though it be certainly every one's right to understand the scripture in that sense which appears truest to him , yet i do not see how you , upon your principles , can depart from that which the church of england has given it : but you , i nd●… , when you think fit , take that liberty ; and so much liberty as that , would , i think , satisfy all the 〈◊〉 in england . as to your other place of scripture ; if st. paul , as it seems to me in that xth to the romans , were shewing that the gentiles were provided with all things necessary to salvation , as well as the jews ; and that by having men sent to them to preach the gospel , that provision was made , what you say in the two next paragraphs will shew us , that you understand , that the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies both hearing and report , but does no more answer the force of those two verses , against you , than if you had spared all you said with your greek criticism . the words of st. paul are these ; how then shall they call on him on whom they have not believed ? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? and how shall they hear without a preacher ? and how shall they preach , except they be sent ? so then faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the word of god. in this deduction of the means of propagating the gospel , we may well suppose st. paul would have put in miracles or penalties , if , as you say , one of them had been necessary . but whether or no every reader will think st. paul set down in that place all necessary means , i know not ; but this , i am consident , he will think , that the new testament does ; and then i ask , whether there be in it one word of force to be used to bring men to be christians , or to hearken to the good tidings of salvation , offer'd in the gospel ? to my asking , what if god , for reasons best known to himself , would not have men compell'd ? you answer , if he would not have them compell'd now miracles are ceased , as far as moderate penalties compel , ( otherwise you are not concern'd in the demand ) he would have told us so . concerning miracles supplying the want of force , i shall need to say nothing more here but to your answer , that god would have told us so . i shall in few words state the matter to you . you first suppose force necessary to co●…pel men to hear , and thereupon suppose the magistrate invested with a power to compel them to hear , and from thence peremptorily declare , that if god would not have force used , he would have told us so . you suppose also , that it must be only moderate force . now may we not ask one , that is so far of the council of the almighty that he can positively say what he would or would not have , to tell us , whether it be not as probable that god , who knows the temper of man that he has made , who knows how apt he is not to spare any degree of force wh●… he believes he has a commission to compel men to do any thing in their power , and who knows also how prone man is to think it reasonable to do so : whether , i say , it is not as probable that god , if he would have the magistrate to use none but moderate force to compel men to hear , would also have told us so ? fathers are not more apt than magistrates to strain their power beyond what is convenient for the education of their children ; and yet it has pleased god to tell them in the new-testament of this moderation , by a precept more than once repeated . to my demanding , ` what if god would have men left to their freedom in this point , if they will hear or if they will forbear , will you constrain them ? thus we are sure he did `with his own people , &c. you answer , but those words , whether they will hear or whether they will sorbear , which we find thrice used in the prophet ezekiel , are nothing at all to my purpose . for by hearing there , no man understands the bare giving an ear to what was to be preach'd , nor yet the considering it only ; but the complying with it , and obeying it , according to the paraphrase which grotius gives of the words . methinks , for this once , you might have allow'd me to have hit upon something to the purpose , you having deny'd me it in so many other places : if it were but for pity , and one other reason ; which is , that all you have to say against it , is , that by hearing there , no man understands the bare giving an ear to what was to be preach'd , nor yet the considering it , but the complying with it , and obeying it . if i misremember not , your hypothesis pretends the use of force to be not barely to make men give an ear , nor yet to consider , but to make them consider as they ought , i. e. so as not to reject ; and therefore , though this text out of ezekiel , be nothing to the purpose against have giving an ear , yet if you please , let it stand as if it were to the purpose against your hypothesis , till you can find some other answer to it . if you will give your self the pains to turn to a●…s xxviii . , — . you will read these words , and some believed the things that were spoken , and some believed not . and when they agreed not among themselves they departed , after that paul had spoken one word ; well spake the holy ghost by esaias the prophet , unto our fathers , saying , go unto this people , and say , hearing , ye shall hear , and shall not understand ; and seeing , ye shall see , and not perceive . for the heart of this people is waxed gross , and their ears are dull of hearing , and their eyes have they closed ; lest they should see with their eyes , and hear with their ears , and understand with their heart , and should be converted , and i should heal them . be it known therefore unto you , that the salvation of god is sent unto the gentiles , and that they will hear it . if one should come now , and out of your treatise , call'd the argument of the letter concerning toleration consider'd and answer'd , reason thus , it is evident that these jews have not sought the truth in this matter , with that application of mind and freedom of judgment which was requisite , whilst they suffer'd their lusts and passions to ●…it in judgment , and manage the enquiry . the impressions of education , the reverence and admiration of persons , worldly respects , and the like incompetent motives , have determin'd them . now if this be the case ; if these men are averse to a due consideration of things , where they are most concern'd to use it , what means is there left ( besides the grace of god ) to reduce them out of the wrong way they are in , but to lay thorns and briars in it ? would you not think this a good argument to shew the necessity of using force and penalties upon these men in the acts , who refused to be brought to imbrace the true religion upon the preaching of st. paul ? for what other means was left , what humane method could be used to bring them to make a wiser and more rational choice , but laying such penalties upon them as might ballance the weight of such prejudices , which inclin'd them to prefer a false way before the true ? tell me , i 〈◊〉 you , would you not ( had you been a christian magistrate in those days ) have thought your self obliged to try , by force , to over-ballance the weight of those prejudices which inclin'd them to prefer a false way to the true ? for there was no other humane means lefe ; and if that be not enough to prove the necessity of using it , you have no proof of any necessity of force at all . if you would have laid penalties upon them , i ask you , what if god , for reasons best known to himself , thought it not necessary to use any other humane means , but preaching and perswasion ? you have a ready answer , there is no other humane means but force , and some other humane means besides preaching , is necessary , i. e. in your opinion : and is it not fit your authority should carry it ? for as to miracles , whether you think fit to rank them amongst humane means or no ; or whether or no there were any shew'd to these unbelieving jews to supply the want of force , i guess , in this case , you will not be much help'd , which ever you suppose : though to one unbi●…s'd , who reads that chapter , it will , i imagine , appear most probable that st. paul , when he thus parted with them , had done no miracles amongst them . but you have , at the close of the paragraph before us , provided a salvo for all , in telling us , however the penalties you defend , are not skch as can any way be pretended to take away mens freedom in this point . the question is , whether there be a necessity of using other humane means but preaching , for the bringing men to imbrace the truth that must save them ; and whether force be it ? god himself seems , in the places quoted and others , to teach us that he would have men left to their freedom from any constraint of force in that point ; and you answer , the penalties you defend are not such as can any ways be pretended to take away mens freedom in this point . tell us what you mean by these words of yours , take away mens freedom in this point ; and then apply it . i think it pretty hard to use penalties and force to any man , without taking away his freedom from penalties and force . farther , the penalties you think necessary , if we may believe you your self , are to be such as may ballance the weight of those prejudices which incline men to prefer a false way before a true : whether these be such as you will defend , is another question . this , i think , is to be made plain , that you must go beyond the lower degrees of force and moderate penalties , to ballance these prejudices . to my saying , that the method of the gospel is to pray and beseech , and that if god had thought it necessary to have men punish'd to make them give ear , he could have called magistrates to be spreaders of the gospel as well as poor fishermen , or paul a persecutor , who yet wanted not power to punish ananias and sapbira , and the incestuous corinthian . you reply , though it be the method of the gospel , for the ministers of it to pray and beseech men ; yet it appears from my own words here , both that punishments may be sometimes necessary ; and that punishing ; and that even by those who are to pray and beseech , is inconsistent with that metbod . i fear , sir , you so greedily lay hold upon any examples of punishment , when on any account they come in your way , that you give your self not liberty to consider whether they are for your purpose or no ; or else you would scarce inser , as you do from my words , that , in your case , punishments may be sometimes necessary . ananias and saphira were punished ; therefore it appears , say you , that punishment may be sometimes necessary . for what , i beseech you ? for the only end , you say , punishments are useful in religion , i. e. to make men consider . so that ananias and saphira were struck dead : for what end ? to make them consider . if you had given your self the leisure to have reflected on this and the other instance of the incestuous corinthian , 't is possible you would have found neither of them to have served very well to shew punishment necessary to bring men to imbrace the true religion ; for both these were punishments laid on those who had already imbraced the true religion , and were in the communion of the true church , and so can only shew ( if you will infer any thing concerning the necessity of punishments from them ) that punishments may be sometimes necessary for those who are in the communion of the true church . and of that you may make your advantage . as to your other in●…erence from my words , viz. that punishing , and that even by those who are , as ambassadors , to pray and beseech , is consistent with that method : when they can do it as the apostles did , by the immediate direction and assistance of the spirit of god , i shall easily allow it to be consistent with the method of the gospel . if that will not content you , 't is plain you have an itch to be handling the secular sword ; and since christ has not given you the power you desire , you would be executing the magistrate's pretended commission from the law of nature . one thing more let me mind you of , and that is , that if , from the punishments of ananias and saphira , and the incestuous 〈◊〉 , you can infer a necessity of punishment to make men consider , it will follow that there was a necessity of punishment to make men consider , notwithstanding miracles ; which cannot therefore be suppos'd , to supply the want of punishments . to my asking , what if god , foreseeing this force would be in the hands of men , as passionate , as humoursom , as liable to prejudice and error , as the rest of their brethren , did not think it a proper means to bring men into the right way ? you reply , but if there be any thing of an argument in this , it proves that there ought to be no civil government in the world ; and so proving too much , proves nothing at all . this you say ; but you being one of those mortals which is liable to error as well as your brethren , you cannot expect it should be received for insallible truth , till you have proved it ; and that you will never do , till you can shew , that there is as absolute a necessity of force in the magistrate's hand for the salvation of souls , as there is of force in the magistrate's hands for the preservation of civil society ; and next , till you have proved that force , in the hands of men , as passionate , and humoursom , or liable to pr●…judice and error as their brethren , would contribute as much to the bringing men , and keeping them in the right way to salvation , as it does to the support of civil society , and the keeping men at peace in it . where men cannot live together without mutual injuries , not to be avoided without force , reason has taught them to seek a remedy in government , which always places power somewhere in the society to restrain and punish such injuries ; which power , whether placed in the community it self , or some chosen by the community to govern it , must still be in the hands of men ; and where ( as in society of civiliz'd and setled nations ) the form of the government place this power out of the community it self , it is unavoidable , that out of men ( such as they are ) some should be made magistrates , and have coercive power or force put into their hands , to govern and direct the society for the publick good ; without which , force so placed in the hands of men , there could be no civil society , nor the ends for which it is instituted to any degree attain'd . and thus government is the will of god. 't is the will of god also , that men should be saved ; but to this , it is not necessary that force or coa●…live power should be put into mens hands ; because god can , and hath provided other means to bring men to salvation : to which , you indeed suppose , but can never prove force necessary . the passions , humours , liableness to prejudices and errors , common to magistrates with other men , do not render force in their hands so dangerous and unuseful , to the ends of society , which is the publick peace , as to the ends of religion , which is the salvation of mens souls . for though men of all rank●… , could be content to have their own humours , passions and prejudices satisfied , yet when they come to make laws , which are to direct their force in civil matters , they are driven to oppose their laws to the humours , passions and prejudices of men in general , whereby their own come to be restrain'd : for if law-makers , in making of laws , did not direct them against the irregular humours , prejudices and passions of men , which are apt to mislead them : if they did not endeavour with their best judgment , to bring men from their humours and 〈◊〉 , to the obedience and practice of right reason , the society could not subsist , and so they themselves would be in danger to lose their station in it , and be expos'd to the unrestrain'd humours , passions , and violence of others . and hence it comes , that be men as humoursom , passionate , and prejudiced as they will , they are still by their own interest obliged to make use of their best skill , and with their most unprejudiced and sedatest thoughts take care of the government and endeavour to preserve the common-wealth ; and therefore , notwithstanding their humours and passions , their liableness to error and prejudice , they do provide pretty well for the support of society , and the power in their hands is of use to the maintenance of it . but in matters of religion it is quite otherwise ; you had told us , about the latter end of your argument c. how liable men were in choosing their religion , to be misled by humour , passion and prejudice ; and therefore , it was not fit that in a business of such concernment they should be left to themselves : and hence , in this matter of religion , you would have them subjected to the coactive power of the magistrate . but this contrivance is visibly of no advantage to the true religion , nor can serve at all to secure men from a wrong choice . for the magistrates , by their humours , prejudices and passions , ( which they are born to like other men ) being as liable , and likely to be misled in the choice of their religion , as any of their brethren , as constant experience hath always shewn , what advantage could it be to mankind , for the salvation of their souls , that the magistrates of the world should have power to use force to bring men to that religion which they , each of them , by whatsoever humour , passion or prejudice influenc'd , had chosen to themselves as the true ? for whatsoever you did , i think with reverence we may say , that god foresaw , that whatever commission one magistrate had by the law of nature , all magistrates had : and that commission , if there were any such , could be only to use their coactive power to bring men to the religion they believed to be true , whether it were really the true or no : and therefore , i shall , without taking away government out of the world , or so must as question it , still think this a reasonable question ; what if god , foresecing this force would be in the hands of men , as passionate , as humoursom , as liable to prejudice and error as the rest of their brethren , did not think it a proper means , in such hands , to bring men into the right way ? and that it needs a better answer than you have given to it : and therefore , you might have spared the pains you have taken in this paragraph , to prove that the magistrates , being liable as much as other men to humour , prejudice , passion and error , makes not force , in his hand , wholly un●…erviceable to the administration of civil government . which is what no body denies : and you would have better imploid it to prove , that if the magistrate's being as liable to passion , humour , prejudice and error as other men , made force , in his hands , improper to bring men to the true religion , this would take away government out of the world : which is a consequence , i think , i may deny . to which , let me now add , what if god foresaw that if force , of any kind or degree whatsoever , were allow'd in behalf of truth , it would be us'd by ●…rring , passionate , prejudiced men , to the restraint and ruin of truth , as constant experience in all ages has shewn , and therefore commanded that the tares should be 〈◊〉 to grow with the wheet till the harvest , when the infallible judg should sever them . that parable of our saviour's plainly tells us , if force were once permitted , even in favour of the true religion , what mischief it was like to do in the misapplication of it , by forward busy mistaken men , and therefore be wholly forbid it ; and yet , i hope , this does not take away civil government out of the world ? to my demanding , ` what if there be other means ? and saying , ` then yours ceases to be necessary upon that account , that there is no other means left ; for the grace of god is another means . you answer , that though the grace of god be another means , yet it is none of the means of which you were speaking in the place i refer to , which any one , who reads that paragraph , will find to be only humane means . in that place , you were endeavouring to prove force necessary to bring men to the true religion , as appears ; and there having dilated for four or five pages together upon the carelesness , prejudices , passions lusts , impressions of education , worldly respects , and other the like causes , which you think mislead and keep men from the true religion ; you at last , conclude force necessary to bring men to it , because admonitions and 〈◊〉 not prevailing , there is no other means left . to this , grace being instanced in as another means , you tell us here , you mean , no other humane means left . so that to prove force necessary , you must prove that god would have other humane means used besides praying , preaching , perswasion and instruction ; and for this , you will need to bring a plain direction from revelation for your moderate punishments ; unless you will pretend to know , by your own natural wisdom , what means god has made necessary ; without which , those whom he hath foreknown and predestinated , and will in his good time call by such means as he thinks sit , according to his purpose , cannot be brought into the way of salvation perhaps you have some warrant we know not of , to enter thus boldly into the counsel of god ; without which , in another man , a modest christian would be apt to think it presumption . you say , there are many who are not prevail'd on by prayers , intreaties and exhortations , to imbrace the religion . what then is to be done ? some degrees of force are necessary to be used . why ? because there is no other humane means left . many are not prevail'd on by your moderate force ; what then is to be done ? greater degrees of force are necessary , because there is no other humane means left . no , say you , god has made moderate force necessary , because there is no other humane means left where preaching and intreaties will not prevail : but he has not made greater degrees of force necessary , because there is no other humane means left where moderate force will not prevail . so that your rule changing , where the reason continues the same , we must conclude you have some way of judging concerning the purposes and ways of the almighty in the work of salvation , which every one understands not . you would not else , upon so slight ground as you have yet produced for it , which is nothing but your own imagination , make force , your moderate force so necessary , that you bring in question the wisdom and bounty of the disposer and governour of all things , as if he had not furnish'd mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls , if your moderate force were wanting to bring them to the true religion ; whereas you know , that most of the nations of the world always were destitute of this humane means to bring them to the true religion . and i imagine you would be put to it , to name me one now that is furnish'd with it . besides , if you please to remember what you say in the next words , and therefore thongh the grace of god be both a proper and sussicient means , and such as can work by it self , and without which , neither penalties nor any other means can do any thing ; and by consequence , can make any means effectual : how can you say any humane means , in this supernatural work , unless what god has declar'd to be so , is necessary ? preaching and instruction , and exhortation , are humane means that he has appointed : these , therefore , men may and ought to use ; they have a commission from god , and may expect his blessing and the assistance of his grace ; but to suppose , when they are used and prevail not , that force is necessary , because these are not sussicient , is to exclude grance , and ascribe this work to humane means ; as in effect you do , when'you call force competent and sussicient means , as you have done . for if bare preaching , by the assistance of grace , can and will certainly prevail ; and moderate penalties , as you confess , or any kind of force , without the assistance of grace , can do nothing , how can you say , that force is in any case a more necessary or a more competent , or sufficient means , than bare preaching and instruction ? unless you can shew us , that god hath promised the co-operation and assistance of his grace to force , and not to preaching ? the contrary whereof , has more of appearance . preaching and perswasion are not competent means , you say ; why ? because , without the co-operation of grace , they can do nothing : but by the assistance of grace , they can prevail even without force . force too , without grace , you acknowledge can do nothing ; but join'd with preaching and grace , it can prevail . why then , i pray , is it a more competent means than preaching , or why necessary , where preaching prevails not ? since it can do nothing without that , which , if joined to preaching , can make preaching effectual without it . you go on , yet it may be true however , that when admonitions and intreaties fail , there is no humane means left but penalties , to bring prejudiced persons to hear and consider what may convince them of their errors , and discover the truth to them : and then penalties will be necessary in respect to that end , as an humane means . let it be true or not true , that when intreaties , &c. fail , there is no humane means left but penalties : your inference i deny , that then penalties will be necessary as an humane means . for i ask you , since you lay so much stress to so little purpose on humane means , is some humane means necessary ? if that be your meaning , you have humane means in the case , viz. ad●…onitions , intreaties , being instant in season and out of season . i ask you again ; are penalties necessary because the end could not be obtain'd by preaching , without them ? that you cannot say , for grace co-operating with preaching will prevail ; are penalties then necessary as sure to produce that end ? nor so are they necessary , for without the assistance of grace , you consess , they can do notbing . so that penalties , neither as humane means , nor as any means , are at all necessary . and now you may understand what i intend , by saying that the grace of god is the only means ; which is the enquiry of your next paragraph , viz. this i intend , that it is the only efficacious means , without which all humane means is ineffectual . you tell me , if by it i intend that it does either always , or ordinarily , exclude all other means ; you see no ground i have to say it . and i see no ground you have to think i intended , that it excludes any other means that god in his goodness will be pleased to make use of : but this i intend by it , and this , i think , i have ground to say , that it excludes all the humane means of force from being necessary , or so much as lawful to be used , unless god hath required it by some more authentick declaration than your bare saying or imagining it is necessary . and you must have more than humane confidence , if you continue to mix this poor and humane contrivance of yours , with the wisdom and counsel of god in the work of salvation ; since he having declar'd the means and methods to be used for the saving mens souls , has in the revelation of the gospel , by your own consession , prescribed no such humane means . to my saying , god alone can open the ear that it may hear , and open the heart that it may understand . you reply , but by , your favour , this does not prove that he makes use of no means in doing of it . nor needs it : it is enough for me , if it proves , that if preaching and instruction doth not open the ear , or the heart , 〈◊〉 not necessary any one should try his strength with an hammer or an auger . man is not in this business , ( where no means can be effectual , without the assistance and co-operation of his grace ) to make use of any means which god hath not prescribed . you here set up a way of propagating christianity according to your fancy , and tell us how you would have the work of the gospel carried on : you commission the magistrate by arguments of congruity ; you find an efficacy in punishment towards the converting of men : you limit the force , to be used to low and moderate degrees ; and to countries where sufficient means of instruction are provided by the law. and where the magistrate's religion is the true , i. where it pleases you ; and all this without any direction from god , or any authority so much as pretended from the gospel ; and without its being truly for the propagation of christianity , but only so much of it as you think fit , and what else you are pleas'd to join to it . why else , in the religion you are content to have establish'd by law , and promoted by penalties , is any thing more or less requir'd , than is exprestly contain'd in the new testament . this indeed is well suited to any one , who would have a power of punishing those who differ from his opinion , and would have men compell'd to conformity in england . but in this your fair contrivance , what becomes of the rest of mankind , left to wander in darkness out of this goshen , who neither have , nor ( according to your scheme ) can have your necessary means of force and penalties to bring them to imbrace the truth that must save them : for if that be necessary , they cannot without a miracle , either prince or people , be wrought on without it . if a papist at rome , a lutheran at stockholm , or a calvinist at geneva , should argue thus for his church , would you not say , that such as these look'd like the thoughts of a poor prejudiced narrow mind ? but they may mistake , and you cannot ; they may be prejudiced , but you cannot . say too , if you please , you are confident you are in the right , but they cannot be confident that they are so . this i am sure , god's thoughts are not as man's thoughts , nor his ways as man's ways , isai. lv. . and it may abate any one's confidence of the necessity or use of punishments , for not receiving our saviour , or his religion , when those who had the power of miracles were told , that they knew not what manner of spirit they were of , when they would have commanded down fire from heaven . but you do well to take care to have the church you are of , supported by force and penalties , whatever becomes of the propagation of the gospel , or the sal●…ation of mens souls , in other parts of the world , as not coming within your hypothesis . in your next paragraph , to prove that god does bless the use of force , you say you suppose i mean , by the words you there cite , that the magistrate has no ground to hope that god will bless any penalties that he may use to bring men to hear and consider the doctrine of salvation ; or ( which is the same thing ) that god does not ( at least not ordinarily ) afford his grace and assistance to them who are brought by such penalties to hear and consider that doctrine , to enable them to hear and consider it as they ought , i. e. so as to be moved heartily to imbrace it . you tell me , if this be my meaning ; then to let me see that it is not true , you shall only desire me to tell you , whether they that are so brought to hear and consider , are bound to believe the gospel or not ? if i say they are ; ( and you suppose i dare not say otherwise ; ) then it evidently follows , that god does afford them that grace which is requisite to enable them to believe the gospel : because , without that grace , it is impossible for them to believe it ; and they cannot be bound to believe what it is impossible for them to believe . to which , i shall only answer , that by this irrefragable argument , it is evident , that where-ever due penalties have been used ( for those you tell us are sufficient and competent means ) to make men hear and consider as they ought , there all men were brought to believe the gospel ; which , whether you will resolve with your self to be true or false , will be to me indifferent , and on either hand equally advantage your cause . had you appeal'd to eperience for the success of the use of force by the magistrate , your argument had not shewn half so much depth of theological learning : but the mischief is , that if you will not make it all of a piece scholastick , and by arguing that all whom the magistrates use force upon , are brought to consider as they ought , and to all that are so wrought upon , god does afford that grace which is 〈◊〉 ; and so roundly conclude for a greater success of force , to make men believe the gospel , than ever our saviour and the apostles had by their preaching and miracles , ( for that wrought not on all ) your unanswerable argument comes to nothing . and in truth , as you have in this paragraph ordered the matter , by being too sparing of your abstract metaphysical reasoning , and imploying it but by halves , we are fain , after all , to come to the dull way of experience ; and must be forced to count , as the parson does his communicantes , by his easter-book , how many those are that are so broughs to hear and consider , to know how far god blesses penalties . indeed , were it to be measur'd by conforming ; the easter-book would be a good register to determin it . but since you put it upon believing , that will be of some-what a harder disquisition . to my saying , ( upon that place out of isaiah vi. . make the heart of this people fat , lest they understand , and convert , and be healed ) will all the force you can use be a means to make such people hear and understand , and be converted ? you reply , no , sir , it will not . but what then ? what if god declares that he will not heal those who have long resisted all his ordinary methods , and made themselves , morally speaking , incurable by them ? ( which is the utmost , you say , i can make of the words i quote . ) will it follow from thence , that no good can be done by penalties upon others , who are not so far gone in wickedness and obstinacy ? if it will not , as it is evident it will not , to what purpose is this said ? it is said to this purpose , viz. to shew that force ought not to be used at all . those ordinary methods which , resisted , are punished with a reprobate sense , are the ordinary methods of instruction , without force ; as is evident by this place and many others , particularly rom. i. from whence i argue ; that what state soever you will suppose men in , either as past , or not yet come to the day of grace , no body can be justified in using force to work upon them . for till the ordinary methods of instruction and persuasion can do no more , force is not necessary , ( for you cannot say what other means is there left ) and so by your own rule not lawful . for till god hath pronounced this sentence here , on any one , make his heart fat , &c. the ordinary means of instruction and perswasion , may , by the assistance of god's grace , prevail . and when this sentence is once passed upon them , and god will not afford them his grace to 〈◊〉 them ; ( i take it , you confess in this place ) i am sure you must confess your force to be wholly useless , and so utterly 〈◊〉 : unless that can be pertinent to be used , which you own can do nothing . so that whether it will follow , or no , from mens being given up to a reprobate mind , for having resisted the preaching of salvation , that no good can be done by penalties upon others ; this will follow , that not knowing whether preaching may not , by the grace of god , yet work upon them ; or whether the day of grace be past with them ; neither you nor any body else can say that force is necessary ; and if it be not necessary , you your self tell us it is not to be used . in your next paragraph , you complain of me , as representing your argument , as you say i commonly do , as if you allow'd any magistrate , of what religion soever , to lay penalties upon all that dissent from him . unhappy magistrates that have not your allowance ! but to console them , i imagine they will 〈◊〉 that they are all under the same obligation , one as another , to propagate the religion they believe to be the true , whether you allow it them or no. for to go no farther than the first words of your argument , which you complain i have misrepresented , and which you tell me runs thus , when men fly from the means of right information ; i ask you here , who shall be judg of those means of right information , the magistrate who joins force with them to make them be 〈◊〉 to , or no ? when you have answer'd that , you will have resolv'd a great part of the question , what magistrates are to use force . but that you may not complain again of my misrepresenting , i must beg my readers leave to set down your argument at large in your own words , and all you say upon it . when men fly from the means of a right information , and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is , throughly and impartially to examine a religion , which they imbraced upon such inducements , as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it ; what humane method can be used to bring them to act like men , in an affair of such consequence , and to make a wiser and more rational choice , but that of laying such penalties upon them , as may ballance the weight of those prejudices , which inclined them to prefer a false way before the true , &c. now this argument , you tell me , i pretend to retort in this manner : and , i say , i see no other means left ( taking the world as we now find it , wherein the magistrate never lays penalties , for matters of religion , upon those of his own church , nor is it to be expected they ever should ) to make men of the national church , any where , throughly and impartially examine a religion , which they imbraced upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it : and therefore , i conclude the use of force by dissenters upon conformists necessary . i appeal to all the world , whether this be not as just and natural a con●…clusion as yours ? and you say , you are well content the world should judg . and when it determines , that there is the same reason to say , that to bring those who conform to the national church , to examine their religion , it is necessary for dissenters ( who cannot possibly have the 〈◊〉 power , because the national church has that 〈◊〉 its side , and cannot be national without it ) to use force upon conformists , as there is to say , that where the national church is the true church , there to bring dissenters ( as i call them ) to examine their religion , it is necessary for the magistrate ( who has the coactive power ) to lay moderate penalties upon them for dissenting : you say , when the world determines thus , you will never pretend any more to judg what is reasonable , in any case what soever . for you doubt not but you may safely presume that the world will easily admit these two things . . that though it be very fit and desirable , that all that are of the true religion , should understand the true grounds of it ; that so they may be the better able , both to defend themselves against the assaults of seducers , and to reduce such as are out of the way ; yet this is not strictly necessary to their salvation : because experience shews ( as far as men are capable to judg of such matters ) that many do 〈◊〉 believe and profess the true religion , and conscientiously practise the duties of it , who yet do not understand the true grounds upon which it challenges their belief : and no man doubts but who soever does so believe , profess , and practise the true religion , if he perseveres to the end , shall certainly attain salvation by it . . that how much soever i●… concerns those who reject the true religion ( whom i may call dissenters if i please ) to examine and consider why they do so ; and how needful soever penalties may be to bring them to this ; it is , however , ●…tterly unreasonable that such as have not the coactive power , should take upon them to inslict penalties for that purpose : because , as that is not consistent with order and government ; which cannot stand , where private persons are permitted to usurp the coactive power ; so there is nothing more manifest , than that the prejudice which is done to religion , and to the interest of mens souls , by destroying government , does infinitely outweigh any good that can possibly be done by that which destroys it . and whoever admits and considers these things , you say , you are very secure will be far enough from admitting , that there is any parity of reason in the cases we here speak of , or that mine is as just and natural a conclusion as yours . the sum of what you say , amounts to thus much . men being apt to take up their religion , upon inducements that ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and so , with little or no examination of the grounds of it ; therefore penalties are necessary to be laid on them , to make them throughly and impartially examine . but yet penalties need not be laid on conformists , in england , to make them examine ; because they , and you , believe yours to be the true religion : though it must be laid on presbyterians and independents , &c. to make them examine , though they believe theirs to be the true religion ; because you believe it not to be so . but you give another very substantial reason , why penalties cannot be laid on conformists , to make them examine ; and that is , because the national church has the coactive power on its side , and therefore they have no need of penalties to make them examine . the national church of france too , has the co-active power on its side ; and therefore , they who are of it have no need of penalties , any of them , to make them examine . if your argument be good , that men take up their religions upon wrong inducements , and without due examination of the proper grounds of it ; and that therefore , they have need of penalties to be laid on them to make them examine , as they ought , the grounds of their religion ; you must confess there are some in the church of england to whom penalties are necessary : unless you will affirm , that all , who are in the communion of the church of england , have so examin'd : but that i think you will not do , however you indeavour to palliate their ignorance , and negligence , in this matter . there being therefore a need of penalties ; i say , 't is as necessary that presbyterians should lay penalties on the conformists of the church of england , to make them examine , as for the church of england to lay penalties on the presbyterians to make them do so : for they each equally believe their religion to be true ; and we suppose , on both sides , there are those who have not duly examin'd . but here you think you have a sure advantage , by saying it is not consistent with the order of government , and so is impracticable . i easily grant it . but is yours more practicable ? when you can make your way practicable , for the end for which you pretend it necessary ( viz. ) to make all , who have taken up their religion upon such inducements , as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , to examine throughly and impartially the proper grounds of it ; when , i say , you can shew your way practicable , to this end , you will have clear'd it of one main objection , and convinc'd the world that yours is a more just and natural conclusion than mine . if your cause were capable of any other defence , i suppose we should not have had so long and elaborate an answer as you have given us in this paragraph , which at last bottoms only on these two things : . that there is in you , or those of your church , some approaches towards insallibility ; in your belief that your religion is true ; which is not to be allow'd those of other churches , in the belief of theirs . . that it is enough if any one does but conform to it , and remain in the communion of your church : or else one would think there should be as much need for conformists too of your church , to examine the grounds of their religion , as for any others . to understand the true grounds of the true religion ; is not , you say , strictly necessary to salvation . yet , i think , you will not deny , but it is as strictly necessary to salvation , as it is to conform to a national church in all those things it imposes : some whereof , are not necessary to salvation ; some whereof , are acknowledg'd by all to be indifferent ; and some whereof , to some conscientious men , who thereupon decline communion , appear unsound or unlawful . if not being strictly necessary to salvation , will excuse from penalties in the one case , why will it not in the other ? and now i shall excuse the world from determining my conclusion to be as natural as yours : for 't is pity so reasonable a disputant as you are , should take so desperate a resolution as never to pretend any more to judg what is reasonable in any case what soever . whether you have proved that force , used by the magistrate , be a means prescrib'd by god to procure the gift of faith from him , ( which is all you say in the next paragraph , ) others must judg . in that following ; you quote these words of mine . if all the means god has appointed to make men hear and consider , be exhortation in season and out of season , &c. together with prayer for them , and the example of meekness , and a good life ; this is all ought to be done , whether they will hear , or whether they will forbear . to which you thus reply , but if these be not all the means god has appointed , then these things are not all that ought to be done . but if i ask you , how do you know that this is not all god has appointed , you have nothing to answer ( to bring it to your present purpose ) but that you know it by the light of nature . for all you say is but this ; that by the light of nature you know force to be useful and necessary to bring men into the way of salvation ; by the light of nature you know the magistrate has a commission to use force to that purpose ; and by the same light of nature , you know that miracles were appointed to supply the want of force till the magistrates were christians . i imagine , sir , you would scarce have thought this a reasonable answer , if you had taken notice of my words in the same paragraph immediately preceding those you have cited ; which ( that you may see the scope of my argument ) i will here trouble you with again ; and they are these . it is not for you and me , out of an imagination that they may be useful , or are necessary , to prescribe means in the great mysterious work of salvation , other than what god himself has directed . god has appointed force as useful and necessary , and therefore it is to be used , is a way of arguing becoming the ignorance and humility of poor creatures . but i think force useful or necessary , and therefore it is to be used , has methinks a little too much presumption in it . you ask what means is there left ? none , say i , to be used by man , but what god himself has directed in the scriptures , wherein are contained all the means and methods of salvation . faith is the gift of god. and we are not to use any other means to procure this gift to any one , but what god himself has prescribed . if he has prescribed appointed , that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to 〈◊〉 then the right ; and that they should be 〈◊〉 by the magistrate , if they did not ; 't will be past doubt , it is to be made 〈◊〉 of . but till that can be done , 't will be in vain to say , what other means is there left . my argument here lies plainly in this ; that all the means and methods of salvation are contain'd in the scripture : which either you were to have deny'd , or else have 〈◊〉 where it was , in scripture , that force was appointed . but instead of that , you tell us , that god appointed miracles in the beginning of the gospel . and though , when these 〈◊〉 , the means i mention were all the ministers had left , yet this proves not that the magistrate was not to use force . your words are , as to the first spreaders of the gospel , it has already been shown that god appointed other means besides these for them to use , to ●…nduce men to hear and consider : and though , when those extraordinary means ceased , these means which i mention , ( viz. preaching , &c. ) were the only means left to the 〈◊〉 of the gospel ; yet that is no proof that the magistrate , ●…hen he became christian , could not lawfully 〈◊〉 such means as his station 〈◊〉 him to 〈◊〉 , when they became 〈◊〉 . i said , in 〈◊〉 words , no means was to be used by man , but what god himself has directed in the scripture . and you answer , this is no proof that the christian magistrate may not use force . perhaps when they so peremptorily interpose their decisive decreas in the business of salvation ; establish religions by laws and penalties , with what articles , creeds , ceremonies and discipline they think fit ; ( for this we see done almost in all countries ) when they force men to bear those , and those only , who , by their authority , are chosen and allow'd 〈◊〉 men they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right ; it may be thought necessary to prove magistrates to be men. if that needs no proof , what i said needs some other answer . but let us examine a little the parts of what you here say . as to the first spreaders of the gospel , say you , it has already been those , that god appointed other means besides exhortation in season , and out of season , prayer , and the example of a good life , for them to use to induce men to hear and consider . what were those other means ? to that you answer readily , miracles . ergo , men are directed now by scripture to use miracles . or else what answer do you make to my argument , which i gave you in these words , ` no means is to be used by man , but what god himself has directed in the scriptures ; wherein are contain'd all the means and methods of salvation . no , they cannot use miracles now as a means , say you , for they have them not . what then ? therefore the magistrate , who has it , must use force to supply the want of those extraordinary means which are now ceased . this indeed is an inference of yours , but not of the scriptures . does the scripture say any thing of this ? not a word : not so much as the least intimation towards it in all the new testament . be it then true or false , that force is a means to be used by men in the absence of miracles , this is yet no answer to my argument ; this is no proof that'tis appointed in scripture ; which is the thing my argument turns on . revelation then fails you . let us see now how reason and common sense , that common light of nature , will help you out . you then reason thus . bare preaching , &c. will not prevail on men to hear and consider : and therefore some other means is necessary to make them do so . pray what do you mean by men , or any other of those indefinite terms , you have always used in this case ? is it that bare preaching will prevail on no men ? does reason ( under which i comprehend experience too , and all the ways of knowledg , contradistinguish'd to revelation ) discover any such thing to you ? i imagine you will not say that ; or pretend that no body was ever brought , by preaching and perswasion , to hear and consider the truths of the gospel , ( mean by considering what you will ) without other means used by those who applied themselves to the care of converting them . to such therefore as may be brought to hear and consider , without other means , you will not say that other means are necessary . in the next place , therefore , when you say bare preaching will not prevail on men ; do you mean that 't will not prevail on all men , and therefore'tis necessary that men should use other means ? neither , i think , will reason authorise you to draw such a consequence : because neither will preaching alone , nor preaching 〈◊〉 with force ; or any other means man can use , prevail on all men. and therefore no other means can be pretended to be necellary to be used by man , to do what men by those means never did , nor never can do . that some men shall be saved , and not all , is , i think , past question to all that are christians : and those that shall be saved , 't is plain , are the 〈◊〉 . if you think not this plain enough in scripture , i desire you to turn to the th of the articles of the church of england , where you will read these words : predestination to life is the everlasting purpose of god , whereby ( before the foundations of the world were laid ) he hath const decreed by his counsel secret to us , to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he ha●… chosen in christ out of mankind , and to bring them by christ to everlasting salvation , as vessels made to honour . wherefore they which be indued with so excellent a benefit of god , be called according to god's purpose by his spirit , 〈◊〉 in due 〈◊〉 : they through grace obey the calling ; they be justified freely ; they be made sons of god by adoption ; they be made like the image of his only begotten son jesus christ ; they walk religiously in good works ; and at length by god's mercy , they attain to everlasting felicity . now pray tell me whether bare preaching will not prevail on all the elect to hear and consider , without other means to be used by men. if you say it will ; the neceslity of your other means , i think , is out of doors . if you say it will not ; i desire you to tell me how you do know it without revelation ; and whether by your own reason you can tell us , whether any , and what means god has made necessary , besides what he has appointed in scripture for the calling his elect. when you can do this , we shall think you no ordinary divine , nor a stranger to the secret counsels of the insinitely wise god. but till then , your mixing your opinion with the divine wisdom in the great work of salvation , and from arguments of congruity , taking upon you to declare the necessity or usefulness of means , which god has not expresly directed , for the gathering in of his elect , will scarece authorize the magistrate to use his co●…tive power for the edisying and compleating the body of christ , which is his church . those whom god hath chosen in christ out of mankind , before the foundations of the world , are called , according to god's purpose , by his spirit , working in due season , and through grace obey the calling ; say you in your article . the outward means that god has appointed for this , is preaching . ay , but preaching is not enough ; that is , not sussicient means , say you . and i ask you how you know it ; since the scripture , which declares all that we can know in this matter , says nothing of the insussiciency of it , or of the necessity of any other ? nor can there be a necessity of any other means than wh●…t god expresly appoints , in a matter wherein no means can operate effectually , without the assistance of his grace ; and where the assistance of his grace can make any outward means , he appoints effectual . i must desire you here to take notice , that by preaching , which i use for shortness , i mean exhortation , instruction , intreaty , praying for , and in fine , any outward means of perswasion in the power of man , separate from force . you tell us here , as to the first spreaders of the gospel , god appointed other means , viz. miracles , for them to use to induce men to hear and consider . if by the first spreaders of the gospel , you mean the twelve apostles and disciples , whom christ himself sent to preach the gospel ; they indeed were appointed by his immediate command , to shew miracles by-the power which he had bestowed upon them . but will you say , all the ministers and preachers of the gospel had such a commission , and such a power all along from the apostles time ; and that they , every one , did actually shew miracles to induce men to hear and consider , quite down , till christianity was supported by the law of the empire ? unless you could shew this , though you could produce some well-attested miracles , done by some men in every age till that time , yet it would not be sufficient to prove that miracles were appointed to be constantly used to induce men to hear and consider ; and so by your reasoning , to supply the want of force , till that necessary assistance could be had from the authority of the magistrate become christian. for since it is what you build upon , that men will not hear and consider upon bare preaching , ( and i think you will forwardly enough agree , that till christianity was made the religion of the empira , there were those every where that heard the preachers of it so little , or so little consider'd what they said , that they rejected the gospel ; ) and that therefore miracles or force are necessary means to make men hear and consider ; you must own that those who preach'd without the power of miracles , or the coactive power of the magistrate accompanying them , were unfurnish'd of competent and sufficient means to make men hear and consider ; and so to bring them to the true religion . if you will say the miracles done by others were enough to accompany their preaching , to make it be heard and consider'd ; the preaching of the ministers at this day is so accompanied , and so will need no assistance of force from the magistrate . if the report of miracles done by one minister of the gospel some time before , and in another place , were sufficient to make the preaching of ten or a thousand others , be heard and consider'd , why is it not so now ? for the credibility and attestation of the report is all that is of moment ; when miracles done by others , in other places , are the argument that prevails . but this , i fear , will not serve your turn in the business of penalties ; and whatever might satisfy you in the case of miracles , i doubt you would not think the salvation of souls sufficiently provided for , if the report of the force of penalties , used some time since on one side of the tweed , were all that should assist the preachers of the true religion on the other , to make men hear and consider . st. paul , in his epistle to titus , instructs him what he , and the presbyters he should ordain in the cities of crete , were to do for the propagating of the gospel , and bringing men heartily to imbrace it . his directions are , that they should be blameless , not rioters , not self-willed , not soon angry , not given to wine nor filthy lucre , not strikers , not unruly ; lovers of hospitality , and of good men ; sober , just , holy , temperate ; to be able by sound doctrine , both to exhort and convince gain-sayers ; in all things to be a pattern of good works ; in doctrine , shewing uncorruptedness , gravity , sincerity , sound speech that cannot be condemned , that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed , having no evil to say of you . these things speak , and exhort , and r●…buke , with all authority . avoid foolish questions , and genealogies , and contentions . a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition , reject . to repay you the favour of your greek , it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which , if i may take your liberty of receding from onr translation , i would read avoid . the cretans , by the account st. paul gives of them , were a people that would require all the means that were needful to prevail with any strangers to the gospel to hear and consider . but yet we find nothing directed for the support and propagation of the gospel in this island , but preaching , exhortation , reproof , &c. with the example of a good life . in all this epistle , writ on purpose to instruct the preachers of the gospel , in the means they were to use among the cretans , for their conversion , not a word about miracles , their power or use : which one would think strange , if they were the means appointed and necessary to make men hear and consider , and without which they would not do it . preaching , admonition , exhortation , intreaties , instruction , by the common light of reason , were known , and natural to be used , to perswade men. there needed not be much said to convince men of it . but if miracles were a necessary means , it was a means wholly new , unexpected , and out of the power of other teachers . and therefore one would think , if they were appointed for the ends you propose , one should hear something of that appointment : since that they were to be used ; or how , and when ; was farther from common apprehension ; and seems to need some particular direction . if you say the same spirit that gave them the power of mivacles , would also give them the knowledg both that they had it , and how to use it ; i am far enough from limiting the operations of that infinitely wise spirit , who will not fail to bring all the elect of god into the obedience of truth , by those means , and in that manner he shall think necessary . but yet our saviour , when he sent abroad his disciples , with the power of miracles , not only put it in their commission , whereby they were informed that they had that extraordinary gift , but added instructions to them in the use of it . freely you have received , freely give ; a caution as necessary to the cretan elders , in the use of miracles , if they had that power ; there being nothing more liable to be turn'd to the advantage of filthy lucre. i do not question but the spirit of god might give the power , and stir up the mind of the first spreaders of the gospel to do miracles on some extraordinary occasion . but if they were a necessary means , to make men hear and consider what was preached to them , till force supplied their place ; and so were ordinarily to accompany the preaching of the gospel , ( unless it should be preach'd without the means appointed and necessary to make it prevail ) i think , in that case , we may expect it should expresly have made a part of the preachers commission ; it making a necessary part of the effectual execution of his function . but the apo●…le , it seems , thought fit to lay the stress upon instructing others , and living well themselves , upon being instant in season , and out of season . and therefore directs all his advices for the ordering the cretan church , and the propagating the gospel there , to make them attend to those necessary things of life and doctrine ; without so much as mentioning the appointment , need , or use of miracles . i said , but whatever neglect or aversion there is in some men , impartially and throughly to be instructed ; there will upon a due examination ( i fear ) be sound no less a neglect and aversion in others , impartially and throughly to instruct them . 't is not the talking even general truths in plain and ●…ear language ; much less a man 's own fancies in scholastical or uncommon ways of speaking , an hour or two , once a week , in publick ; that is enough to instruct even willing hearers in the way of salvation , and the grounds of their religion : and that politick discourses and inve●…tives , from the pulpit , instead of friendly and christian debates with people at their houses , were not the proper means to inform men in the foundations of religion ; and that if there were not a neglect in this part , i thought there would be little need of any other means . to this you tell me , in the next paragraph , you do not see how pertinent my discourse , about this matter , is to the present question . if the shewing the neglects , observable in the use of what is agreed to be necessary means , will not be allow'd by you to be pertinent , in a debate about necessary means ; when possibly those very neglects may serve to make other means seem requisite , which really are not so ; yet if you are not of those who will never think any such discourse pertinent ; you will allow me to mind you of it again , as not impertinent in answer to your last letter , wherein you so often tell us of the sufficient provision made for instruction . for wherever the neglect be , it can ●…arce be said there is sufficient provision made for instruction in a christian country , where great numbers of those , who are in the communion of the national church , are grosly ignorant of the grounds of the christian religion . and i ask you , whether it be in respect of such conformists you say , as you do in the same paragraph , that when the best provision is made that can be , for the instruction of the people , you fear a great part of them will still need some moderate penalties to bring them to hear and receive instruction ? but what if all the means that can , be not used for their instruction ? that there are neglects of this kind , you will , i suppose , take the word of a reverend prelate of our church , who thought he could not better shew his good-will to the clergy , than by a seasonable discourse of the pastoral care , to c●…re that neglect for the future . there he tells you , that ministers should watch over and seed their flock , and not enjoy their benesices as farms , &c. which reproach , says he , ( whatever we may be ) our church is free of ; which he proves by the stipulation and covenant they make with christ , that they will never cease their labour , care and diligence , till they have done all that lieth in them , according to their bounden duty , towards all such as are , or should be committed to their care , to bring them to a ripeness of age in christ. and a page or two after , having repeated part of the promise made by those who take orders , he adds , in this is expressed the so much neglected , but so necessary duty , which incumbents owe their flock in a private way ; visiting , instracting and admonishing ; which is one of the most useful and important parts of their duty , how generally socuer it may be disused or forgetten . p. . he says , every , priest that minds his duty will find , that no part of it is so useful as catechistical discourses ; by means whereof , his people will understand all his sermons the better , when they have once had a clear notion of all those terms that must run through them ; for those not being understood , renders them all unintelligible . another part of the priest's duty , he tells you , is with relation to them that are without , who are of the side of the church of rome , or among the dissenters . other churches and bodies are noted for their z●…al , in making proselytes ; for their 〈◊〉 endeavours , as well as their unlawful methods in it : they reckoning perhaps that all will be 〈◊〉 by the increasing their party ; which is the true name of making converts , except they become at the same time good men , as well as votaries to a side or cause . we are certainly very remiss in this of both hands . little pains is taken to gain either upon papists or nonconformists : the law has been so much trusted to , that that method only was thought sure ; it was much valued , and others at the same time as much neglected . and whereas , at first , without force or violence , in forty years time , popery from being the prevailing religion , was reduced to a bandful ; we have now in above twice that number of years , made very little progress , &c. perhaps here again you will tell me , you do not see how this is pertinent to the present question ; which , that you may see , give me leave to put you in mind , that neither you nor any body else can pretend force necessary till all the means of perswasion have been used , and nothing negl●…ted that can be done by all the softer ways of application . and since it is your own doctrine , that force is not lawful , unless where it i●… necessary ; the magistrate , upon your principles , can neither lawfully use force , nor the ministers of any national church plead for it any where , but where they themselves have first done their duties : a draught whereof , a●…apted to our present circumstances , we have in the newly publish'd discours : of the pastoral care. and he that shall press the use of force as necessary , before he can answer it to himself and the world , that those who have taken on them the care of souls have performed their duties , were best consider , whether he does not draw up an accusation against the men of that holy order , or against the magistrate who suffers them to neglect any part of their duty . for whilst what that learned bishop , in the passages above cited and in other places , mentions , is neglected ; it cannot be said that no other means but force is lest : those , which are on all hands acknowledg necessary and useful means , not having yet been made use of . to vindicate your method from novelty , you tell me , 't is as old as st. austin . whatever he says in the place you quote , it shews only his opinion , but not that it was ever used . therefore , to shew it not to be new in practice , you add , that yon think it has been made use of by all those magistrates , who having made all requisite provisions for the instructing their people in the truth , have likewise requir'd them under convenient penalties to imbrace it . which is as much as to say , that those magistrates who used your method , did use your method . and that certainly you may think safely , and without fear of being gainsaid . but now i will tell you what i think , in my turn : and that is , if you could have found any magistrates who had made use of your method , as well as you think you have found a divine that approves of it , you would have named those magistrates as forwardly as you do st. austin . if i think amiss , pray correct me yet , and name them . that which makes me imagine you will hardly find any examples of it , is what i there said in these words ; all other law-makers have constantly taken this method ; that where any thing was to be amended , the fault was first declared , and then penalties denounced against all those who after a time set , should be found guilty of it . this the common sense of mankind , and the very reason of laws ( which are intended not for punishment but correction ) has made so plain , that the subtilest and most refined law-makers have not gone out of this course , nor have the most ignorant and barbarous nations mist it . but you have out-done solon and lycurgus , moses , and our saviour , and are resolved to be a law-maker of a way by your self . 't is an old and obsolete way , and will not , serve your turn , to begin with warnings and threats of penalties , to be inflicted on those who do not re●…orm , but continue to do that which you think they fail in . to allow of impunity to the innocent , or the opportunity of amendment to those who would avoid the penalties , are formalities not worth your notice . you are for a shorter and surer way . take a whole tribe , and punish them at all adventures , whether guilty or no of the miscariage which you would have amended ; or without so much as telling them what it is you would have them do , but leaving them to find it out if they can . all these absurdities are contained in your way of proceding ; and are impossible to be avoided by any one , who will punish dissenters , and only dissenters , to make them consider and weigh the grounds of their religion , and impartially examine whether it be true or no , and upon what grounds they took it up ; that so they may find and 〈◊〉 ace the 〈◊〉 that must save them . these absurdities , i fear , must be remov'd , before any magistrates will find your method practicable . i having said , your method is not altogether unlike the plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous usage of the protestants in france , from being a persecution for religion , viz. that it was not a punishment for religion , but for disobeying the king's laws , which requir'd them to come to mass : so by your rule , di●…enters must be punish'd , not for the religion they have imbraced , and the religion they have rejected . in answer to this , in the next paragraph , you take abundance of pains to prove , that the king of france's laws , that require going to mass , are no laws . you were best to say so on the other side of the water . 't is sure the punishments were punishments , and the dragooning was dragooning . and if you think that plea excus'd them not , i am of your mind . but nevertheless am of opinion , as i was , that it will prove as good a plea as yours . which is what you argue against in your next paragraph , in the words following , wherein you examine the likeness of your new method to this plea. you tell me , i say , by your rule , the di●…enters ' ( from the true religion , for you speak of no other ) must be punish'd ( or if i please subjected to moderate penaltics , such as shall make them uneasy , but ●…uber destroy or undo them ) : for what ? indeed i thought by your 〈◊〉 book , you meant not for their religion , but to make them consider ; but here you ask me where it is you say that dissenters from the true religion , are not to be punish'd for their religion ? ` so then , it seems , in your opinion now , dissenters from the true religion are to be punish'd , or ( as you are pleased to mollify the expression , for the thing is the same ) subjected to moderate penalties for their religion . i think i shall not need to prove , to any one but one of your nice stile , that the execution of penal laws , let the penalties be great or small , are punishments . if therefore the religion of dissenters from the true , be a fault to be punish'd by the magistrate ; who is to judg who are guilty of that fault ? must it be the ma istrate every-where , or the magisrate in some countries and not in others , or the magistrate no-where ? if the magistrate no-where is to be judg who are dissenters from the true religion , he can no-where punish them . if he be to be every-where judg , then the king of france , or the great turk , must punish those whom they judg dissenters from the true religion , as well as other potentates . if some magistrates have a right to judg , and others not ; that yet , i fear , ( how absurd soever it be ) should i grant it , will not do your business . for besides that they will hardly agree to make you their infallible umpire in the case , to determine who of them have , and who have not this right to judg which is the true religion ; or if they should , and you should declare the king of england had that right , ( viz. whilst he complied to support the orthodoxy , ecclesiastical polity , and those ceremonies which you approve of ; ) but that the king of france , and the great turk , had it not , and so could have no right to use force on those they judg'd dissenters from the true religion ; you ought to bethink your self what you will reply to one that should use your own words ; if such a degree of outward force , as has been mentioned , be really of great and even necessary use , for the advancing of the true religion , and salvation of souls , then it must be acknowledg'd , that in france and turky , &c. there is a right somewhere to use it , for the advancing those ends ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things , has not in france and turky furnish'd mankind with competent means , for the promoting his own honour , and the good of souls . you go on , and tell us , they are to be punish'd , not for following the light of their own reason , nor for obeying the dictates of their own con●…lences , but rather for the contrary . for the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own conscience ( if their reason and their consciences were not perverted and abused ) would undoubtedly lead them to the same thing , to which the method you speak of is designed to bring them ; i. e. to the same thing to which your reason and your conscience leads you . for if you were to argue with a papist , or a presbyterian , in the case ; what privilege have you to tell him , that his reason and conscience is perverted , more than he has to tell you that yours is so ? unless it be this insupportable presumption , that your reason and conscience ought to be the measure of all reason and conscience in all others , which how you can claim , without pretending to infallibility , is not easy to discern . the diversion you give your self , about the likeness and unlikeness of those two pleas , i shall not trouble my self with ; since , when your fit of mirth was over , you were forced to confess , that as i have made your plea for you , you think there is no considerable difference , as to the fairness of them , excepting what arises from the different degrees of punishment , in the french discipline , and your method . but if the french plea be not true ; and that which i make to be yours be not yours ; — i must beg your pardon , sir , i did not think it was your opinion , ( nor do i yet remember that you any where said in your a. &c. ) that men were to be punish'd for their religion ; but that it was purely to make men examine the religion they had imbraced , and the religion that they had rejected . and if that were of moment , i should think my self sufficiently justified , for this my mistake , by what you say in your argument , &c. from p. , to . but since you explain your self otherwise here , i am not unwilling to take your hypothesis , as you from time to time shall please to reform it . you answer then , that to make them examine , is indeed the next end for which they are to be punish'd . but what is that to my question ? which , if it be pertinent , demands for what fault , not for what end , they are to be punish'd : as appears even by my next words . so that they are punish'd , not for having offended against a law , ( i. e. not for any fault ; ) for there is no law in england that requires them to examine . this , i must confess , was to shew , that here , as in france , whatever was pretended , yet the true reason why people were punish'd , was their religion . and it was for this agreement , that in both places religion was meant , though something else was talked of , that i said your plea was like that made use of in france . but i see i might have spared my pains to prove that you punish diffenters for their religion , since you here own it . you tell me , in the same place , i was impertinent in my question , ( which was this , for what then are they to be punish'd ? ) that i demanded for what end , and not for what fault they are to be punish'd . in good earnest , sir , i was not so subtile as to distinguish them . i always thought that the end of all laws was to amend those faults which were forbidden ; and that when any one was punish'd , the fault for which he was punish'd was the ●…ransgression of the law , in that particular which was by the law commanded or forbidden ; and the end of the punishment , was the amendment of that fault for the future . for example ; if the law commanded to hear , not hearing was the fault punish'd ; and the end of that punishment , was to make the offenders hear . if the law commanded to examine , the fault punish'd , when that law was put in execution , was not examining ; and the end of the punishment , to make the offenders examine . if the law commanded conformity , the fault was nonconformity , and the end of it to make men conform . this was my apprehension concerning laws , and ends of punishments . and i must own my self still so dull as not to distinguish otherwise between the fault for which men are to be punish'd , and the end for which they are to be punish'd , but only as the one is past , the other future . the transgression or fault , is an omission or action that a man is already guilty of ; the end of the punishment , that it be not again repeated . so that if a man be punish'd for the religion he 〈◊〉 , i can see no other end for which he is punish'd , but to make him quit that religion . no other immediate end i mean ; for other remote ends , to which this is subordinate , it may have . so that if not examining the religion which men have imbraced , and the religion they have rejected , be not the fault for which men are punish'd ; i would be glad you would shew me how it can be the next end , as you say it is , of their being punish'd . and that you may not think my dullness gives you a labour without ground , i will tell you the reason why i cannot find any other next end of punishment , but the amendment of the fault forbidden ; and that is , because that seems to me to be the end , the next end , of any action ; which , when obtain'd , the action is to cease , and not cease till it be attain'd . and thus , i think , it is , in punishments , ordain'd by the law. when the fault forbidden is amended , the punishment is to cease , and not till then . this is the only way i have to know the end , or final cause for which any action is done . if you have any other , you will do me a kindness to instruct me . this 't is which makes me conclude , ( and i think with me all those who have not had the leisure and happiness to attain the utmost resining of the schools ) that if their religion be the fault for which dissenters are punish'd , examining is not the end for which they are punish'd ; but the change of their religion : though examining may perhaps in some men , precede their change , and help to it . but that is not necessary . a man may change his religion without it : and when he has chang'd , let the motive be what it will , the end the law aims at is obtain'd , and the punishment ceases . so on the other side , if not hearing , not examining , be the fault for which men are punish'd , conformity is not the next end for which they are punish'd , though it may perhaps , in some , be a consequence of it ; but hearing and examining must be understood to be the ends for which they are punish'd . if they are not the ends , why does the punishment cease when those ends are attain'd ? and thus you have my thoughts concerning this matter , which perhaps will not be very pertinent ( as mine have not the good luck always to be to you ) to a man of nicer distinctions . but let us consider your hypothesis as it now stands , and see what advantage you have got to your cause by this new explication . dissenters from the true religion are to be punish'd , say you , for their religion . why ? because 't is a fault . against whom ? against god. thence it follows indeed , that god , if he pleases , may punish it . but how will you prove that god has given the magistrates of the earth a power to punish all faults against himself ? covetousness , or not loving our neighbour as our selves , are faults or sins against god. ought the magistrate to punish these ? but i shall not need to trouble you much with that question . this matter i think will be decided between us without going so sar . if the magistrate may punish any one for not being of the true religion , must the magistrate judg what is that true religion or no ? if he must not , what must guide him in the punishing of some , and not of others ? for so it is in all places where there is a national religion establish'd by penal laws . if the magistrate be commission'd by the same law of nature ( for that is all the commission you pretend to ) to judg what is the true religion , by which he is authorized to punish those who dissent from it ; must not all magistrates judg , and accordingly punish those who dissent from that , which they judg the true religion , i. e. in effect , those who dissent from theirs ? and if all magistrates have a power to punish those who are not of their religion , i ask you , whether it be of more use or disadvantage to the promoting true religion and salvation of souls ? and when you have resolved that question , you will then be able to tell me whether the usefulness of it ( which must be determin'd by the greater good or harm it is like to do ) is such as to justify your doctrine about it , or the magistrate's use of it . besides , your making the dissenting from the true religion a pault to be punish'd by the magistrate , puts an end to your pretence to moderate punishments ; which , in this place , you make use of to distinguish yours from the french method ; saying , that your method punishes men with punishments which do not deserve to be called so , when compared with those of the french discipline . but if the dissenting from the true religion , be a fault that the magistrate is to punish , and a fault of that consequence , that it draws with it the loss of a man's soul ; i do not see how other magistrates , whose duty it is to punish faults under his cognizance , and by punishing to amend them , can be more remiss than the king of france has been , and fo●…bear declaring that they will have all their people saved , and endeavour by such ways as he has done to effect it : especially since you tell us , that god now leaves religion to the care of men , under his ordinary providence , to try whether they will do their duties in their several capacities or not , leaving them answerable for all that may follow from their neglect . in the correcting of faults , malo nodo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is not only what is justifiable , but what is requisite . but of this more fully in another place . in the next place ; i do not see how , by your method , as you explain it here , the magistrate can punish any one for not being of the true religion , ( though we should grant him to have a power to do it ) whilst you tell us , that your method punishes men for rejecting the true religion , propos'd to them with sufficient evidence , which certainly is a fault . by this part of your scheme it is plain , that you allow the magistrate to punish none but those to whom the true religion is propos'd with sufficient evidence . and sufficient evidence , you tell us , is such as will certainly win 〈◊〉 where-ever it is duty consider'd . now by this rule , there will be very few that the magistrate will have right to punish ; since he cannot know whether those who dissent , do it for want of due consideration in them , or want of sufficient evidence in what is proposed ; unless you mean by due consideration , such consideration that always does bring men actually to 〈◊〉 ; which is in effect to say nothing at all . for then your rule amounts to thus much , that sufficient evidence is such as will certainly win assent where-ever it is consider'd duly , i. e. so as to win assent . this being like some of those other rules we have met with , and ending in a circle , which after you have traced , you at last sind your self just where you were at setting out ; i leave it to you to own as you think sit : and tell you , if by duly considering , you mean considering to his utmost ; that then , that which is propos'd to one with sufficient evidence to win assent , may not be so to another . there are propositions extant in geometry , with their demonstrations annexed , and that with such sufficient evidence to some men of deep thought and penetration , as to make them see the demonstration , and give assent to the truth : whilst there are many others , and those no no●…ices in mathematicks , who with all the consideration and attention they can use , are never able to attain unto it . 't is so in other parts of truth . that which hath evidence enough to make one man certain , has not enough to make another so much as guess it to be true , though he has spared no endcavour or application in examining it . and therefore , if the magistrate be to punish none but those who reject the true religion , when it has been offer'd with sufficient evidence , i imagine he will not have many to punish ; if he will , as he ought , distinguish between the innocent and the guilty . upon your forwardness to encourage the magistrate's use of force in matters of religion , by its usefulness , even so far as to pretend advantages from what your self acknowledge the misapplication of it ; i say that , so instead of 〈◊〉 from , you give encouragement to the mischief : which upon your principle , join'd to the natural thirst in man after arbitrary power , may be carried to all manner of exorbitancy , with some pretence of right . to which your reply is , that you speak on-where but of the use and necessity of force . what think you in the place mention'd , of the gain that you tell the sufferers they shall make by the magistrate's punishing them to bring them to a wrong religion ? you do not , as i remember , there say , that force is necessary in that case : though they gaining , as you say , by it this advantage , that they know better than they did before where the truth does 〈◊〉 ; you cannot but allow , that such a misapplication of force may do some service indirectly and at a distance towards the salvation of souls . but that you may not think , whilst i had under consideration the dangerous encouragement you gave to men in power , to be very busy with their force in matters of religion , by all the ●…orts of usefulness you could imagine of it , however apply'd , right or wrong , that i declin'd mentioning the necessity you pretend of force , because it would not as well serve to the purpose for which i mention its usefulness ; i shall here take it so , that the reader may see what reason you had to complain of my not doing it before . thus then stands your system . the procuring and advancing any way of the spiritual and eternal interests of men , is one of the ends of civil society . and force is put into the magistrate's hands , as necessary for the attaining those ends , where no other means are left , who then upon your grounds may quickly find reason , where it ●…utes his inclination , or serves his turn , to punish men directly to bring them to his religion . for if he may use force because it is necessary , as being the only means left to make men consider those reasons and arguments , which otherwise they would not consider , why may he not by the same rule use force , as the only means left to make men degrees of g'ory , which otherwise they would not attain , and so to advance their eternal interests ? for st. paul 〈◊〉 us , that the 〈◊〉 of this life work for us a far more exce●…ding weight of glory . so that whether the magistrate may not , when it may serve his turn , argue thus from your principles , judg you : dissenters from my religion must be punish'd , if in the wrong , to bring them into the right way ; if in the right , to make them by their sufferings gainers of a far more exceeding weight of glory . but you say , unless it be as necessary for men to attain any greater degree of glory as it is to attain glory , it will not follow that if the magistrate may use force , because it may be indirectly , &c. useful towards the procuring any degree of glory , he may by the same rule use it where it may be in that manner useful towards the procuring a greater degree of glory . but that there is the same necessity of mens attaining a greater degree of glory , as there is of their attaining glory , no man will affirm . for without attaining glory , they cannot escape the demnation of hell , which yet they may escape , without any greater degree of glory . one of the ends of a commonwealth is , say you , the advancing mens eternal interests . the procuring greater degrees of glory , is the advancing a man 's eternal interest . the use of force , to make men suffer for the truth what otherwise they would not suffer , is as necessary for the attaining an higher degree of glory , as using force to make men consider , what otherwise they would not consider , is necessary , for the attaining any degree of glory . but you will say , attaining glory is absolutely necessary , but the attaining any greater degree of glory , however desirable , is not so necessary . now if there be not the same necessity of the one of these , as there is of the other , there can be no pretence to say , that whatever is 〈◊〉 in respect of one of them , is likewise so in respect of the other . but there will always be a just pretence to say , if advancing the eternal interests of men be one of the ends of a commonwealth , and that the force in the magistrate's hands be necessary to the attaining that end ; that then the magistrate is obliged to use it ; whether you will think that end absolutely necessary , or as necessary as another , or no. i shall not here trouble you again with your mistake about what is absolutely necessary , having taken notice of it in another place . only i shall desire you to shew me , that the attaining of glory is absolutely necessary , when next time you have occasion to affirm it . attaining of glory is necessary in order to happiness : and attaining a greater degree of glory , is necessary in order to greater happiness : but neither of them is absolutely necessary , but in order to their respective ends. and now though , as you say , you do not think your self bound to take notice of all that may be done with some pretence of right : yet , i suppose , upon cooler thoughts , when you have consider'd of what dangerous consequence an argument , manag'd as yours is , may be to the true religion , and the sincere prosessors of it ; and what occalion or encouragement it may give to men in power warm'd with zeal , and excited by the proper ministers of their own religion , to make a wrong and exorbitant use of force in matters of religion , you will another time think your self bound not to let it go abroad again without some caution to the magistrate in the use of it ; without one word of advice at least , that since it is given him , as you say , only for promoting the true religion , he should take care and examine impartially whether what he imploys it for , be the one only true religion . it being your opinion whenever he makes use of force in matters of religion , for the promoting any thing but that , he goes beyond his commission , injures his subjects , and indangers his own soul. by this time , sir , i suppose you see upon what grounds i think you have not clear'd those difficulties which were charg'd by me on your method : and my reader will see what reason there was for those imputations which , with so loud an out-cry , you laid upon me of unfair dealing ; since there is not one of them which cannot be made good to be contain'd either in your book or in your hypothesis ; and that so clearly , that i could not imagine that a man who had so far consider'd government , as to engage in print , in such a controversy as this , could miss seeing it as soon as mention'd to him . one of them which very much offends you , and makes you so often tell me what i say is impertinent and nothing to the purpose , and sometimes to use warmer expressions , is , that i argue against a power in the magistrate to bring men to his own religion : for i could not imagine that , to a man of any thought , it could need proving ; that if there were a commission given to all magistrates by the law of nature , which obliged them to use force to bring men to the true religion , it was not possible for them to put this commission in execution , without being judges what was the true religion ; and then there needed no great quickness to perceive , that every magistrate , when your commission came to be put in execution , would , one as well as another , find himself obliged to use force to bring men to that which he believed to be the true religion . but since this was so hard for you to see , i now have been at the pains to prove it , and thereby to clear all thoseimputations . i shall not instance in any other : they are all of a like kind . only where you complain i have not cited your words fairly , if you can shew that i have done it any where in this or the second letter , to the advantage of my cause ; or to avoid any argument in them , not answered ; if you please to shew it me , i shall either let you see your mistake , or acknowledg mine . and now whether you shall think what i have said worth that consideration you promise , or take it all for cavils and impertinencies , to me is very indifferent . enjoy if you please that short and easy way of answering . but if the party you write for , be , as you say , god and the souls of men , it will require you seriously to weigh your scheme , examine and put together the parts of it , observe its tendency and consequences ; and in a word , consider things , and not words . for the party of god and souls needs not any help from obscurity or uncertainty of general and equivocal terms , but may be spoke out clearly and distinctly ; needs no retreat in the round of equivalent , or the uncertainty of misapply'd expressions , that may serve to amuse and deceive the unwary , but instruct no body ; and lastly , needs no leave nor allowance from men of art to direct both subjects and magistrates to the examination of the scriptures , wherein god has reveal'd to the world the ways and means of salvation . in doing of this , in a treatise where you profess the subject of your enquiry is only what method is to be used to bring men to the true religion ; the party you profess to write for would have justified you against the rules of any lawful art ; and no christian man , of what art soever , would have denied you that liberty : and , if i mistake not , the party , you say you write for , demands it of you . if you find upon a review of the whole , that you have manag'd your cause for god and the souls of men , with that sincerity and clearness that satisfies your own reason , and you think may satisfy that of other men , i shall congratulate to you so happy a constitution . but if all your magnified and necessary means of force , in the way you contend for , reaches no farther than to bring men to a bare outward conformity to the church of england ; wherein you can ●…dately affirm , that it is presumable that all that are of it are so upon reason and conviction ; i suppose there needs no more to be said to convince the world what party you write for . the party you write for is god , you say . but if all you have said , aims or amounts to nothing more than that the church of england , as now establish'd by law , in its doctrines , ceremonies and discipline , should be supported by the power of the magistrate , and men by force be driven into it ; i fear the world will think you have very narrow thoughts of god ; or that that is not the party you write for . 't is true , you all along speak of bringing men to the true religion . but to evidence to you , that by the one only true religion , you mean only that of the church of england ; i tell you , that upon your principles , you cannot name any other church now in the world , ( and i again demand of you to do it ) for the promoting whereof , or punishing dissenters from it , the magistrate has the same right to use force , as you pretend he has here in england . till you therefore name some such other true church and true religion , besides that of england , your saying that god is the party you write for , will rather shew that you make bold with his name , than that you do not write for another party . you say too , you write not for any party , but the so●…s of men. you write indeed , and contend earnestly , that men should be brought into an outward conformity to the church of england . but that they imbrace that profession upon reason and conviction , you are content to have it presumable , without any farther enquiry or examination . and those who are once in the outward communion of the national church , however ignorant or irreligious they are , you leave there 〈◊〉 by your only competent means , force ; without which , you tell us , the true religion , by its own light and strength , is not able to prevail against mens lusts and the corruption of nature , so as to be consider'd as it ought , and heartily imbraced . and this drop'd not from your pen by chance : but you professedly make excuses for those of the national religion who are ignorant of the grounds of it ; and give us reasons why force cannot be used to those who outwardly conform , to make them consider so as sincerely to imbrace , believe and obey , the truth that must save them . but the ●…verend author of the pastoral care tell you , party is the true name of making converts , except they become at the same time good men. if the use of force be necessary for the salvation of souls ; and mens souls be the party you write for ; you will be suspected to have betrayed your party , if your method and necessary means of salvation reach no farther than to bring men to outward conformity , though to the true church ; and after that abandons them to their lusts and depraved natures , destitute of the help of force , your necessary and competent means of salvation . this way of managing the matter , whatever you intend , ●…ms rather , in the fitness of it , to be for another party . but since you assure us you write for nothing but god and mens souls , it can only be said you had a good intention , but ill luck ; since your scheme , put into the language of the country , will sit any national church and clergy in the world , that can but suppose it self the true ; and that i presume none of them will fail to do . you were more than ordinary reserv'd and gracious when you tell me , that what party i write for , you will not undertake to say . but having told me , that my letter tends to the promoting of 〈◊〉 in religion , you thought ( 't is like ) that was sufficient to shew the party i write for ; and so you might safely end your letter with words that looked like civil . but that you may another time be a little better informed what party i write for , i will tell you . they are those who in every nation ●…ear god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and are accepted with him ; and not those who in every nation are zealous for humane constitutions , cry up nothing so much as outward con●…ormity to the national religion , and are accepted by those who are the promoters of it . those that i write for are those , who , according to the light of their own con●…ences , are every-where in earnest in matters of their own salvation , without any desire to impose on others ; a party so seldom favour'd by any of the powers or sects of the world ; a party that has so few preferments to bestow ; so few 〈◊〉 to reward the ●…ndeavours of any one who appears for it , that i conclude i shall easily be believ'd when i say , that neither hopes of preferment , nor a design to recommend my self to those i live amongst , has 〈◊〉 my understanding , or misled me in my undertaking . so much truth as serves the turn of any particular church , and can be accommodated to the narrow interest of some humane constitution , is indeed often received with applause , and the publisher finds his account in it . but i think i may say , truth ( in its full latitude , of those generous principles of the gospel , which so much recommend and inculcate universal charity , and a freedom from the inventions and impositions of men in the things of god , ) has so seldom had a fair and favourable hearing any where , that he must be very ignorant of the history and nature of man , however dignified and distinguish'd , who proposes to himself any secular advantage by writing for her at that rate . as to your request in the close of your letter , i hope this will satisfy you , that you might have spar'd it ; and you with the rest of the world will see that all i 〈◊〉 in my former letter was so true , that you need not have given me any caution for the future . as to the 〈◊〉 of what i say , i doubt whether i shall please you : because i find by your last letter , that what is brought by me to shew the weakness , absurdities , or 〈◊〉 of what you write , you are very apt to call 〈◊〉 , and nothing to the purpose . you must pardon me therefore , if i have endeavour'd more to please other readers than you in that point . i hope they will find , in what i have said , not much besides the matter . but to a man who , supposing himself in the right , builds all upon that supposition , and takes it for an injury to have that privilege deny'd him ; to a man who would soveraignly decide for all the world , what is the true religion , and thereby impower what magistrates he thinks fit , and what not , to use force ; to 〈◊〉 a man not to seem 〈◊〉 , would be really to be so . this makes me pleas'd with your reply to so many passages of my letter , that they were nothing to the purpose : and 't is in your choice whether in your opinion any thing in this shall be so . but since this depends upon your keeping steadily to clear and 〈◊〉 notions of things , separate from words and 〈◊〉 , used in a doubtful and undetermin'd signification ; wherewith 〈◊〉 of art often 〈◊〉 themselves and others ; i shall not be so unreasonable as to expect , whatever you promise , that you should ●…y by your learning to imbrace truth , and own what will not perhaps sute very well with your circumstances and interest . i see , my design not to omit any thing that you might think looks like an argument in yours , has made mine grow beyond the size of a letter . but an answer to any one being very little different from a letter , i shall let it go under that title . i have in it also endeavour'd to bring the scatter'd parts of your scheme into some method , under distinct heads , to give a fuller and more 〈◊〉 view of them . wherein , if any of the arguments which give support to your hypothesis , have escaped me unawares ; be pleased to shew them me ; and i shall either acknowledg their force , or endeavour to shew their weakness . i am , sir , your most humble servant , philanthropus . june , . finis . errata . pag. line read those either baptism . the those who both a chirurgion a. p. . [ in the margin . ]   the doctrine . d. p. . them ? that   shew . p. . [ in the margin . ] consideration ; whoever p. [ in the margin . ] penalties their arguments cannot prevail . things , i should . yet will not give in to ( for   himself ) it munion , excluding named , it will nishments ? learn from   fit , you   however beholden do . if hearts , the unless we argument . i no. these ends p. . [ in the margin . ] and not p. . [ in the margin . ] deviation examination which religion uponr ] magistrate down conviction : when conformity : in my opinion was replied them . what asia alexandrum pseudomantim want single reliques plantins little ; if administrations uninterrupted parish , where force , is , what cannot , without   revelation than usefulness , be   souls may all be justified consistent the societies   places   which force , so so much as questioning wheat   ligion , you the true religion is not   points , effectual acknowledg'd p. . [ in the margin . ] books printed 〈◊〉 , and sold by a. and j. churchill , at 〈◊〉 black swan in peter-noster-row . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 roman history . forcacio's novels and tales . 〈◊〉 paul 〈◊〉 lives of the popes of rome . — history of the turks . two vol. rushworth's historical collections . lloyd dictionariun historicum , pocticum , geographicum . statutes of ireland . bolton justice of ireland . sir george wheeler's travels into greece . leybourn's dialling . 〈◊〉 chronicle and history of the kings of scotland . machiavel's works . thesaurus brevium . sir simon dew's journal of parliament , q. elizabeth . dr. brady's introduction to the history of england . milton's paradise regain'd . leybourn cursus mathematicus . sir roger l' estrange if sop's fables . bp. hall's contemplations . clark praxis cur. ecclesiasticis . dr. gibson's anatomy . dr. patrick mensa mystica . gentleman's recreations . 〈◊〉 l' clere's logica , &c. drelincourt of death . beybourn's arithmetick . protestant reconciler , compleat . homer's 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 minores . royal grammar . gibbon's heraldry . partridge's treasury of physick . bp. 〈◊〉 of prayer and preaching . thibault's chymistry . glasier's chymistry . valerius maximus , english. two treatises of government . the three letters for toleration . some considerations of the consequences of lowring interest , and raising the value of money . sir william temple's observations on holland . — misellanea . dr. burnet's travels . plato 〈◊〉 selden's table-talk . debates of oxon and 〈◊〉 parliaments . titi petronii arbitrii satyricon , cum fragmentis attaecegraecae recuper at 〈◊〉 . anno . livii orationes selectae . o. sleidan de quatuor summis imperiisve . aristotle's rhetorick , english. dr. whitby's several pieces . partridge's astrology . 〈◊〉 orationes , large o. lat. guide to heaven . o. latin testament , the cambridg edition . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e chap. . pag. . pag. . pag. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . . a. p. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. 〈◊〉 . l. . p. . a. p. . acts iv. . a. p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . . a. p. a. p. . l. . p. . a. p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e chap. . p. . p. . job xxi . , , . matth. xxviii . . p. . a. p. . p. . matth. xxviii . . joh. xvii . . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . chap. xlviii . . p. . p. . p. . pet. ii. p. . l. . p. . as to your next paragraph , i think i might now wholly pass it over . i shall only tell you , that as i have often heard , so i hope i shall always hear of religion establish'd by law. for though the 〈◊〉 authority can add no force or sanction to any religion , whether true or f●…lse , nor any thing to the truth or validity of his own , or any religion whatsoever ; yet i think it may do much toward the upholding and preserving the true religion within his 〈◊〉 ; and in that respect may properly enough be said to establish it . notes for div a -e chap. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . xvii . 〈◊〉 pet. v. 〈◊〉 , . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. p. : p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . . p. . p. . a. p , &c p. 〈◊〉 . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. 〈◊〉 p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . . p. . p. 〈◊〉 . l. . p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . l. . p. 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . a. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e chap. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . p. . chap. . notes for div a -e p. . l. . p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. , , , , . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . a. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. : p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . p. . p. . chap. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . l. . p . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . ●… cor. viii . . discourse of conscience , p. . p. . p. , . p. , . p. . l. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . joh. v. . tim. iii. . p. , , . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . cor. . . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . l. . p. . l. . p. . p. . a. p. , 〈◊〉 . p , , — . 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . . ●…bid . p. . p. 〈◊〉 p. ●… . a. p. , &c. p. . p. . p. 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. p. ●… . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. 〈◊〉 . a. p. , — . p. , — . notes for div a -e chap. . p. . a. p. . p. . a. p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . lightfoot harm . of the n. t. sect. 〈◊〉 . and 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . a. p. , . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . dodwell . dissertar . in 〈◊〉 . diss. . sect. lxv . p. . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . chrysost. hom. . in mat. . c●…cum illuminatum fuisse jam noveram . necea quae cognoscimus , enumerare possumus . aug. retract . l. . c. . que utique mecum ●…iunt . 〈◊〉 dati sunt . cum videremus antiquis 〈◊〉 divinarum signa 〈◊〉 etiam nostris 〈◊〉 frequentari . aug. de civ . 〈◊〉 i. 〈◊〉 . p. . acts xiii . . ver. . acts xix . . acts viii . . p. , . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . vid. pastoral care , pag. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the folly of 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . gen. xx , xxi , xxvi . kings xix . . ver. . p. 〈◊〉 . actsx . ver. . p. 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . p. . psal. xiv p. . p. . pastoral care , 〈◊〉 . . * orig. hom. in jos. ix . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xxx . p- . & apost . of the late 〈◊〉 p. . cor. . a. p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. ●… . p. . a. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . rom. x. , . p. . p. . a. p. , &c. p. . p. . a. p. . l. . p. . p. . l. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . rom. viii . . a. p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . joh. ix . . p. . p. . p. . a. p. . p. . p. . a. p. . a. p. . p. . p. . i. . p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . ibid. past. care , p. , — . past. care , p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . ibid. a. p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. 〈◊〉 . p. ●… . p. . a letter from a clergy-man in the city, to his friend in the country, containing his reasons for not reading the declaration halifax, george savile, marquis of, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter from a clergy-man in the city, to his friend in the country, containing his reasons for not reading the declaration halifax, george savile, marquis of, - . p. s.n., [london? : ] caption title. dated at end: may , . attributed to george savile, marquis of halifax. cf. mcalpin coll. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- sovereign ( - : james ii). -- declaration : james r. ... that as it is our royal purpose to endeavor a legal establishment of an universal liberty of conscience. church of england. church and state -- england. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter from a clergy-man in the city , to his friend in the country , containing his reasons for not reading the declaration . sir , i do not wonder at your concern for finding an order of council published in the gazette for reading the king's declaration for liberty of conscience in all churches and chappels in this kingdom . you desire to know my thoughts about it , and i shall freely tell them ; for this is not a time to be reserved . our enemies who have given our gracious king this counsel against us , have taken the most effectual way not only to ruine us , but to make us appear the instruments of our own ruine , that what course soever we take , we shall be undone ; and one side or other will conclude that we have undone our selves , and fall like fools . to lose our livings and preferments ▪ nay our liberties and lives in a plain and direct opposition to popery , as suppose for refusing to read mass in our churches , or to swear to the trent-creed , is an honourable way of falling , and has the divine comforts of suffering for christ and his religion ; and i hope there is none of us but can chearfully submit to the will of god in it . but this is not our present case ; to read the declaration , is not to read the mass , nor to profess the romish faith ; and therefore some will judge that there is no hurt in reading it , and that to suffer for such a refusal , is not to fall like confessors , but to suffer as criminals for disobeying the lawful commands of our prince : but yet we judge , and we have the concurring opinions of all the nobility and gentry with us , who have already suffered in this cause , that to take away the test and penal laws at this time , is but one step from the introducing of popery ; and therefore to read such a declaration in our churches , though it do not immediately bring popery in , yet it sets open our church-doors for it , and then it will take its own time to enter : so that should we comply with this order , all good protestants would despise and hate us , and then we may be easily crushed , and shall soon fall with great dishonour , and without any pity . this is the difficulty of our case ; we shall be censured on both sides , but with this difference : we shall fall a little sooner by not reading the declaration , if our gracious prince resent this as an act of an obstinate and pevish or factious disobedience , as our enemies will be sure to represent it to him ; we shall as certainly fall , and not long after , if we do read it , and then we shall fall unpitied and despised , and it may be with the curses of the nation , whom we have ruined by our compliance ; and this is the way never to rise more : and may i suffer all that can be suffered in this world , rather than contribute to the final ruine of the best church in the world. let us then examine this matter impartially , as those who have no mind either to ruine themselves , or to ruine the church : i suppose no minister of the church of england can give his consent to the declaration . let us then consider whether reading the declaration in our churches be not an interpretative consent , and will not with great reason be interpreted to be so : for , first , by our law all ministerial officers are accountable for their actions : the authority of superiours , though of the king himself , cannot justifie inferiour officers , much less the ministers of state , if they should execute any illegal commands ; which shews , that our law does not look upon the ministers of church or state to be meer machines and tools to be managed wholly by the will of superiours , without exercising any act of judgment or reason themselves ; for then inferiour ministers were no more punishable than the horses are which draw an innocent man to tyburn : and if inferiour ministers are punishable , then our laws suppose that what we do in obedience to superiours , we make our own act by doing it , and i suppose that signifies our consent , in the eye of the law , to what we do . it is a maxime in our law , that the king can do no wrong ; and therefore if any wrong be done , the crime and guilt is the minister's who does it : for the laws are the king 's publick will , and therefore he is never supposed to command any thing contrary to law ; nor is any minister , who does an illegal action , allowed to pretend the king's command and authority for it : and yet this is the only reason i know , why we must not obey a prince against the laws of the land , or the laws of god , because what we do , let the authority be what it will that commands it , becomes our own act , and we are responsible for it ; and then as i observed before , it must imply our own consent . secondly , the ministers of religion have a greater tye and obligation than this , because they have the care and conduct of mens souls , and therefore are bound to take care that what they publish in their churches , be neither contrary to the laws of the land , nor to the good of the church : for the ministers of religion are not lookt upon as common cryers , but what they read , they are supposed to recommend too , thô they do no more than read it ; and therefore to read any thing in the church , which i do not consent to and approve , nay which i think prejudicial to religion , and the church of god , as well as contrary to the laws of the land , is to mis-guide my people , and to dissemble with god and men ; because it is presum'd , that i neither do , nor ought to read any thing in the church , which i do not in some degree approve . indeed , let mens private opinions be what they will , in the nature of the thing , he that reads such a declaration to his people , teaches them by it : for is not reading teaching ? suppose then i do not consent to what i read , yet i consent to teach my people what i read : and herein is the evil of it ; for it may be it were no fault to consent to the declaration , but if i consent to teach my people what i do not consent to , myself , i am sure that is a great one : and he who can distinguish between consenting to read the declaration , and consenting to teach the people by the declaration , when reading the declaration is teaching it , has a very subtile distinguishing conscience . now if consenting to read the declaration be a consent to teach it my people , then the natural interpretation of reading the declaration , is , that he who reads it , in such a solemn teaching-manner , approves it . if this be not so , i desire to know , why i may not read an homily for transubstantiation , or invocation of saints , or the worship of images , if the king sends me such good catholic homilies , and commands me to read them ? and thus we may instruct our people in all the points of popery , and recommend it to them with all the sophistry and artificial insinuations , in obedience to the king , with a very good conscience , because without our consent : if it be said , this would be a contradiction to the doctrine of our church by law established ; so i take the declaration to be : and if we may read the declaration contrary to law , because it does not imply our consent to it ; so we may popish homilies , for the bare reading them will not imply our consent , no more than the reading the declaration does : but whether i consent to the doctrine or no , it is certain i consent to teach my people this doctrine ; and it is to be considered , whether an honest man can do this . thirdly , i suppose no man will doubt , but the king intends , that our reading the declaration should signifie to the nation , our consent and approbation of it ; for the declaration does not want publishing , for it is sufficiently known already : but our reading it in our churches , must serve instead of addresses of thanks , which the clergy generally refused , though it was only to thank the king for his gracious promises renewed to the church of england , in his declaration , which was much more innocent , than to publish the declaration itself in our churches : this would perswade one , that the king thinks our reading the declaration , to signifie our consent , and that the people will think it to be so . and he that can satisfie his conscience , to do an action without consent , which the nature of the thing , the design , and intention of the command , and the sence of the people expound to be a consent , may , i think , as well satisfie himself with equivocations and mental reservations . there are two things to be answered to this , which must be considered . i. that the people understand our minds , and see that this is matter of force upon us , and meer obedience to the king. to which i answer , . possibly the people do understand that the matter of the declaration is against our principles : but is this any excuse , that we read that , and by reading recommend that to them , which is against our own consciences and judgments ? reading the declaration would be no fault at all , but our duty , when the king commands it , did we approve of the matter of it ; but to consent to teach our people such doctrines as we think contrary to the laws of god , or the laws of the land , does not lessen but aggravate the fault , and people must be very good natured to think this an excuse . . it is not likely that all the people will be of a mind in this matter , some may excuse it , others , and those it may be the most , the best , and the wisest men , will condemn us for it , and then how shall we justifie our selves against their censures ? when the world will be divided in their opinions , the plain way is certainly the best , to do what we can justifie our selves , and then let men judge as they please . no men in england will be pleased with our reading the declaration , but those who hope to make great advantage of it against us , and against our church and religion : others will severely condemn us for it , and censure us as false to our religion , and as betrayers both of church and state : and besides that , it does not become a minister of religion , to do any thing , which in the opinion of the most charitable men can only be excused ; for what needs an excuse , is either a fault or looks very like one ; besides this i say ; i will not trust mens charity ; those who have suffered themselves in this cause , will not excuse us for fear of suffering ; those who are inclined to excuse us now , will not do so when they consider the thing better , and come to feel the ill consequences of it : when our enemies open their eyes ▪ and tell them what our reading the declaration signified , which they will then tell us we ought to have seen before , though they were not bound to see it ; for we are to guide and instruct them , not they us . ii. others therefore think , that when we read the declaration , we should publickly profess , that it is not our own judgment , but that we only read it in obedience to the king ; and then our reading it cannot imply our consent to it : now this is only protestatio contra factum , which all people will laugh at , and scorn us for : for such a solemn reading it in the time of divine service , when all men ought to be most grave and serious , and far from dissembling with god or men , does in the nature of the thing imply our approbation ; and should we declare the contrary , when we read it , what shall we say to those who ask us , why then do you read it ? but let those who have a mind try this way , which , for my part , i take to be a greater and more unjustifiable provocation of the king , than not to read it ; and , i suppose , those who do not read it , will be thought plainer and honester men , and will escape as well as those who read it and protest against it : and yet nothing less than an express protestation against it will salve this matter ; for only to say , they read it meerly in obedience to the king , does not express their dissent : it signifies indeed , that they would not have read it , if the king had not commanded it ; but these words do not signifie , that they disapprove of the declaration , when their reading it , though only in obedience to the king , signifies their approbation of it , as much as actions can signifie a consent : let us call to mind how it fared with those in king charles the first 's reign , who read the book of sports , as it was called , and then preached against it . to return then to our argument ; if reading the declaration in our churches be in the nature of the action , in the intention of the command , in the opinion of the people , an interpretative consent to it , i think my self bound in conscience not to read it , because i am bound in conscience not to approve it : it is against the constitution of the church of england , which is established by law , and to which i have subscribed , and therefore am bound in conscience to teach nothing contrary to it , while this obligation lasts : it is to teach an unlimited and universal toleration , which the parliament in . declared illegal , and which has been condemned by the christian church in all ages : it is to teach my people , that they need never come to church more , but have my free leave , as they have the king 's , to go to a conventicle , or to mass : it is to teach the dispensing power , which alters , what has been formerly thought , the whole constitution of this church and kingdom : which we dare not do , till we have the authority of parliament for it : it is to recommend to our people , the choice of such persons to sit in parliament , as shall take away the test and penal laws , which most of the nobility and gentry of the nation have declared their judgment against : it is to condemn all those great and worthy patriots of their country , who forfeited the dearest thing in the world to them , next a good conscience , viz. the favour of their prince , and a great many honourable and profitable employments with it , rather than ▪ consent to that proposal of taking away the test and penal laws , which they apprehend destructive to the church of england and the protestant religion ; and he who can in conscience do all this , i think need scruple nothing . for let us consider further , what the effects and consequences of our reading the declaration are likely to be , and i think they are matter of conscience too , when they are evident and apparent . this will certainly render our persons and ministry infinitely contemptible , which is against that apostolick canon , let no man despise thee , titus . . that is , so to behave himself in his ministerial office , as not to fall under contempt ; and therefore this obliges the conscience , not to make our selves ridiculous , nor to render our ministry , our counsels , exhortations , preaching , writing , of no effect , which is a thousand times worse than being silenced : our sufferings will preach more effectually to the people , when we cannot speak to them : but he who for fear or cowardize , or the love of this world , betrays his church and religion by undue compliances , and will certainly be thought to do so , may continue to preach , but to no purpose ; and when we have rendred our selves ridiculous and contemptible , we shall then quickly fall , and fall unpitied . there is nothing will so effectually tend to the final ruin of the church of england , because our reading the declaration will discourage , or provoke , or misguide , all the friends the church of england has : can we blame any man for not preserving the laws and the religion of our church and nation , when we our selves will venture nothing for it ? can we blame any man for consenting to repeal the test and penal laws , when we recommend it to them by reading the declaration ? have we not reason to expect that the nobility and gentry , who have already suffered in this cause , when they hear themselves condemned for it in all the churches of england , will think it time to mend such a fault , and reconcile themselves to their prince ? and if our church fall this way , is there any reason to expect that it should ever rise again ? these consequences are almost as evident as demonstrations , and let it be what it will in it self , which i foresee will destroy the church of england and the protestant religion and interest , i think i ought to make as much conscience of doing it , as of doing the most immoral action in nature . to say , that these mischievous consequences are not absolutely necessary , and therefore do not affect the conscience , because we are not certain they will follow , is a very mean objection ; moral actions indeed have not such necessary consequences , as natural causes have necessary effects , because no moral causes act necessarily : reading the declaration will not as necessarily destroy the church of england , as fire burns wood , but if the consequence be plain and evident , the most likely thing that can happen , if it be unreasonable to expect any other , if it be what is plainly intended and designed , either i must never have any regard to moral consequences of my actions , or if ever they are to be considered , they are in this case . why are the nobility and gentry so extreamly averse to the repeal of the test and penal laws ? why do they forfeit the king's favour , and their honourable stations , rather then comply with it ? if you say that this tends to destroy the church of england and the protestant religion , i ask whether this be the necessary consequence of it ? whether the king cannot keep his promise to the church of england if the test and penal laws be repealed ? we cannot say , but this may be : and yet the nation does not think fit to try it ; and we commend those great men who deny it ; and if the same questions were put to us , we think we ought in conscience to deny them our selves : and are there not as high probabilities , that our reading the declaration will promote the repeal of the test and penal laws , as that such a repeal will ruine our constitution , and bring in popery upon us ? is it not as probable , that such a complyance in us , will disoblige all the nobility and gentry , who have hitherto been firm to us , as that when the power of the nation is put into popish hands , by the repeal of such tests and laws , the priests and jesuits may find some salvo for the king's conscience , and perswade him to forget his promise to the church of england ? and if the probable ill consequences of repealing the test and penal laws , be a good reason not to comply with it , i cannot see but that the as probable ill consequences of reading the declaration , is as good a reason not to read it . the most material objection is , that the dissenters , whom we ought not to provoke , will expound our not reading it , to be the effect of a persecuting spirit : now i wonder men should lay any weight on this , who will not allow the most probable consequences of our actions , to have any influence upon conscience : for if we must compare consequences , to disoblige all the nobility and gentry by reading it , is likely to be much more fatal , than to anger the dissenters : and it is more likely , and there is much more reason for it , that one should be offended than the other : for the dissenters who are wise and considering , are sensible of the snare themselves , and though they desire ease and liberty , they are not willing to have it with such apparent hazard of church and state : i am sure that thô we were never so desirous that they might have their liberty , ( and when there is opportunity of shewing our inclinations without danger , they may find that we are not such persecutors as we are represented ) yet we cannot consent that they should have it this way , which they will find the dearest liberty that ever was granted . this sir , is our case in short , the difficulties are great on both sides , and therefore now if ever , we ought to besiege heaven with our prayers , for wisdom , and counsel , and courage ; that god would protect his church and reformed christianity , against all the devices of their enemies : which is the daily and hearty prayer of , sir , your friend and brother . may . . postscript . i have just now seen h. care 's paper called , the public occurrences , which came out to day , and cannot but set you right as to his news about the reading of the declaration on sunday : he tells you , that several divines of the church of england , in and about this city , eminent for their piety and moderation , did yesterday read his majesty's late declaration in their churches , according to the order in that behalf ; but some ( to the great surprize of their parishoners ) were pleased to decline it . you in the country are from this account to believe , that it was read here by the generallity of the clergy , and by the eminent men among them : but i can , and do assure you , that this is one of the most impudent lyes that ever was printed : for as to this city which hath above a hundred parishes in it , it was read only in four or five churches , all the rest , and best of the clergy refusing it every-where . i will spare their names who read it ; but should i mention them , it would make you , who know this city , a little heartily to deride h c's account of them . and for the surprize he talks of , the contray of it is so true , that in wood-street , where it was read by one dr. m. the people generally went out of the church . this i tell you , that you may be provided for the future against such an impudent lyar , who , for bread , can vouch and put about the nation , the falsest of things . i am yours . truth rescued from imposture, or, a brief reply to a meer rapsodie of lies, folly, and slander but a pretended answer to the tryal of w. penn and w. meade &c. writ and subscribed s.s. / by a profest enemy to oppression, w.p. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) truth rescued from imposture, or, a brief reply to a meer rapsodie of lies, folly, and slander but a pretended answer to the tryal of w. penn and w. meade &c. writ and subscribed s.s. / by a profest enemy to oppression, w.p. penn, william, - . rudyard, thomas, d. . an appendix, wherein the fourth section of s.s. his pamphlet ... examined. [ ], , [ ] p. s.n.], [london? : . s.s. is sir samuel starling--cf, bm, lcna. "an appendix, wherein the fourth section of s.s., his pamphlet (intituled, the fining of that jury that gave two contrary verdicts justified to prevent a failer of justice in london) examined"--p. - , signed: t. rudyard. imperfect: preface lacking; beginning-p. from defective rutgers university library copy spliced at end. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng mead, william, - . starling, samuel, -- sir, d. . -- fining of that jury that gave two contrary verdicts justified. society of friends -- apologetic works. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth rescued from imposture . or a brief reply to a meer rapsodie of lies , folly , and slander ; but a pretended answer to the tryal of w. penn , and w. mead &c. writ and subscrib'd s.s. by a profest enemy to oppression . w.p. a fools lips enter into contention , and his mouth calleth for strokes , prov. . . a whip for the horse , a bridle for the ass , and a rod for the fools back , prov. . . printed in the year , . to the reader . i take him to be an unhapy man , that knows not an enemy upon earth ; and therefore judge my self not a little happy to be so ill reputed by s.s. that of all men , i have reason to believe one of the most infamous . yet , that i may be just to him , as well as to my self , i do beseech the reader , first to peruse his fardle of impostures , and abuse , before thou read'st me ; lest thou shouldst think i have wrong'd him in citation : so scurrilous , so false , and withal so ridiculous is , he in his whole conceited enterprize , that but a little charity would make one think , that no man could be so great an enemy to truth , and to himself . surely , his fondness of being in print , wholly blinded his discretion , or else methinks he would have stopt't , to give so great an evidence of his folly. one would have thought it impudence enough , to act such tyranny without an appology to defend it . but as that 's an aggravation of his gilt ; so let the man remember , that litera scripta manet . i know it well become his front , and every part thereof bears exactly his resemblance . 't is pitty but all the peoples enemies should give as wise grounds of their abuse , of them , and their laws , as this man has done . i am concern'd in a double sence : first , in defence of my conscience , and therein , the liberties of my country . and next , of the reputation of my deceased father , by him injur'd , beyond the instance of a presedent , or allowance of an excuse . being then , thus boysterously attaqu'd in my religious , civil and natural capacity , let not any wonder , that i imply the force of all to my just defence ; and if i have so much credit with the reader , believe me , i will ( without the least scruple ) give him his compleat weight and measure : for i desire not to hold my life or liberty , on better tearms , then whilst i am bold to justifie the truth at any cost , against the false and peevish essays of her adversaries : truth rescued from imposture , &c. part i. i have to do with one , who dares to profess himself a patriot and that of so great importance to his country , as on his happy cry of ( miles noli regem ferire ) the safety of king and kingdom have their sole dependance . but , as i am perswaded , that piece of arrogancy was unexpected by most , and his inability too notorious , to admit any the least jealousie of such an enterprize ; so has he given the greatest stroke imaginable to himself , and those he would seem to vindicate , in offering at the poor quakers , for whom his weakness makes sufficient appollogy ; and amongst them , i am not the least , that ought to account my self indebted . the second discovery of himself , is not less incharitable , then the first was proud and impudent . he does not only take occasion to fall most foolishly upon our tryal , but as unwarrantably believes 't was i that writ it ; but should i grant him so much faith ( for i believe him to have little ) i shall appeal to all impartial men , if a bare conjecture ( and more he proves not ) be ground sufficient for him to vent so many rank reflections , and that not only upon my self , but my deceased father : it either argues he had better intellegence , in the following pages , or that his desire i should be author of it , had changed his faith into a fancied certainty , which gives sufficient testimony of his prejudice . and as if he doubted there might have been another william penn , that might be an whole quaker , he is pleased to distinguish me from him , with this diminitive expression , of william penn the half quaker , thereby intimating how much worse he supposes half quakers to be , then whole ones ; for none can think he said so out of kindness to me , when his discourse not only singles me out for all abuse ; but as not contented with that , disturbs my fathers grave with his forg'd aspersions , and then places them to my accompt . but whilst i think not my self a little injured by his scurrilous epethite ( believing he meant , i was not a sincere , but interested and turbulent one ) i heartily rejoyce , that out of his own mouth he has justified my friends , by preferring an intire quaker , before all half , or mungril ones ; yet if an half one be so fatal , and heavy on the shoulders of oppressors , that they do scarce dare to own their own appologies , how dreadful must an whole one be ⁏ he says in this expression , so much for us , that he scarcely needs more against himself . but because he believes i writ it , therefore he can give it no other name ( to use his own words ) but the second part to his blasphemous treatise , called the sandy foundation shaken : o egregious nonsence ! this ridiculous non sequitur , either shews him , to have been a man of a very stegmatick head , or else that he has ill bestowed his time , who can write no better sence yet ; for , that these two subjects are in the nature of them very different , is manifest ▪ but perhaps he thinks it no small piece of blasphemy , to tell the world of the late irregular proceedings at the old-baily : nor does he less wound his own cause by acknowledging the book entituled , the peoples ancient and just liberties asserted , ( which designs to detect , on what foundation the mayor , recorder , &c. did proceed ) to be the second part to the sandy one , manifestly implying theirs to be such . his sense of my faith , or rather disbelief of the trinity is a wretched mistake , not to say a voluntary one ; for i never quarrelled the word trinity , it being borrowed of the latine word trinus , in english three , but alwayes did , and do believe the same . but why should i insist upon a point so abstruse ; and that , to a man , so unintelligent in more minute matters , as that he hath not yet learnt a distinction betwixt discourses of civil liberty , and divine faith , but ignorantly makes the one , to be a necessary consequence , from the ( supposed ) mistake in the other . i might here over-look his abusive reflections upon me , as author of the trial , &c. ( which he urges with no small zeal ) by unconcerning my self in the matter : but i confess to owe so much of real kindness to the author , and many parts of the discourse , that i shall gladly imbrace the occasion of making his defence . the man resolving i must be the author , sets me up as such , and then fights me , or rather pelts dirt at me : he says that , penn does not blush to vilifie the kings court , and falsly reproach the kings justices , and revile all methods of law , calling indictments detestable juggles ; and his , a romance indictment ; and w. mead , his , a bundle of stuff : penn designing , in a popular way , to subject the laws , making the jury judges both of law and fact. if i had blusht , it must either have been from mine own guilt , or by way of reflection from the bench ; but as i was wholy innocent of that crime , which could have made me conscious ; so was there not modesty enough , amongst some of the bench to blush at their irregularities . i detest that aspersion , of vilifying law , or reproaching the kings justices ; since the greatest crime some observed against me , whilst at the bar , was my frequent demands of right , by those very fundamental laws , i am charged to have contemned . these are but meer phrases of abuse , ready at every mans hand , for his interest , indictments i esteem not juggles : nor do i believe the author intended so , but that way of crouding most unnecessary and untrue allegations , under the pretence of form of law , contrary to all reason , is no less : this is explained by him , and his own sence fully vindicated . he therefore understood what he said , when he compared the falsity of our indictment , to that of a romance , which however methodical , yet is but meer fancy still . for those things being absent that render an indictment true , it will follow that such an indictment , is altogether incongruous ●●d inapplicable . it is an hard case that men should so nickname things , as to call an honest confidence , impudence ; and my asserting of the supremacy of fundamental laws , against their new inchr●achments , a subverting of them . i rejoyce to think , that many were there present , whose relation of that transaction , has done me the justice of a vindication , and given our tryal the credit ; which it is utterly impossible for the endeavours of s.s. and his malicious cabal , ever to diminish or traduce . he makes it a capital crime to assert the jury , judges of law and fact , but poorly shifts off those arguments aptly used by the author of the tryal , in def●nce of his position : for farther satisfaction i referr the reader to the fourth part of this discourse . he says i was commanded to the bale-dock for turbulency and impertinency : i confess , if i had been as guilty as i was innocent , of being so offensive , they had been very incompetent judges , whose own passion rendred them so much what they say of me , that many spectators questioned , if the● were themselves . they that read the tryal may quickly inform themselves of my kind of impertenency , and with the same trouble , of their billingsgate rhetorick , in phrases so scurrilous , that never did men subject themselves , to a more deserved censure of want of common civility , then at our tryal . but the man breaks forth into an extatical caution , to those of the long robe , lest we should assassinate their persons , at least besiege and rifle their westminster hall : his words are these , now gentlemen of the long robe , look to your selves , and your westminster hall. and why ? because that juries are affirmed to be judges of law and fact ; as if that were an overthrow to the law , that the most learned and honest of the robe made an hearty profession of , in the sence urged . but i appeal to those of the long robe , ( as he stiles them ) whether such arbitrary proceedings , as over-ruling all pleas , verdicts , prisoners , and juries , at the rate of the old-baily , st , d , th , th of september , . with their severe rebukes and harsh menaces , be not more apparently destructive , of the fundamental laws , in the free course of them , and practice of lawyers ▪ then the authors assertion , in his discourse of the peoples antient and just liberties , &c. he urges this caution to the lawyers , with no small pretence to reason and rhetorick ; for says he , if that these learned reformers of religion , shall likewise reform your laws and methods of proceedings ( as doubtless they design it ) farewel then to your great acquisitions , &c. but i must tell him , that as he is an incompetent judge of religion , that practices so little of any , so i publish a plain challenge to him , and the old man within the curtain ( the oracle of his law gibberish ) to produce an avow'd instance , by any lawyer , of the irregularies and arbitrary actions , they vainly attempt to defend . and whether our well ▪ meant plea , for english priviledge , be most destructive of great acquisitions , or their unhinging th● well hung laws of england , to turn all tryals upon the sole pin of will and power , let the very lawyer judge . i affirm , such give the justest ground of bidding farewell , to all great acquisitions , that are so ready to welcome inqvisitions . ●e ventures to urge the great charter , and to give an exposition , as ridiculous , as the other is fictitious ; his kindness for the law , being to kill it , in palliating his real fear , and abhorrence of all good laws , with his pretended respect for them . but of this i will say little , leaving it to an whole part by it self ; and proceed to consider the rest of his wild reflections . his comparison of us to john of leyden , is ignorant and malicious . ignorant , because he seems to know no better our principles , that utterly abhor to promote religion by blood. malicious , because he slanders us , without the least desert ; and seems not so much to heed the truth , as odium of his comparison : and but that it is a vulgar trick , to put the woolfs skin upon the sheep , and the sheeps skin upon th● woolf , i should enlarge upon his ugly epithites . part ii. s.s. his answer to the pretended calumnies of the tryal considered . having given my self a loose shake of the calumnies of his first section ( saving that part which concerns the power of juries , to be considered by it self ) i shall descend to examin his second , if possibly i may find more of truth , sence , and civility . he pret●nds to so much scripture ( and which is worse , applies it to his own shame ) as to front his second section with the th and th verses of the epistle of jude . ver. . yet michael , the arch-angel , when contending with the devil , he disputed about the body of moses , durst not bring against him a railing accusation , but said , the lord rebuke thee . ver. . but these speak evil of those things which they know not . upon this text he preaches thus . pag. . these people called quakers ( if they are to be believed ) will tell , they have this angellical spirit , the meekness of moses , the patience of job , and all other graces ; but the contrary appears , fol. . of w. penns book , vide this passage . but above all , dissenters had little reason to have expected that boarish● sierceness from the mayor of london , when they consider h●s eager prosecution of the kings party under cromwels government ; as-thinking he could never give too great a testimony of his loyalty , to that new ▪ instrument , which makes the old saying true , viz. that one renegado is worse then three turks . to which i answer , not as w.p. but as one they call a quaker . his application of the first scripture will be this . if michael did not bring a railing accusation against the devil — then the author of the tryal should not have brought one against him . it is so plain what he has said of him , that we need not further blacken him . but this latter part , he grosly mis-understands , and mis-applies ; for t is deny'd , that any part of this scripture affords one just reproof , of that so much abused author . we know how frequently the devil himself has taken to the scriptures for a refuge ▪ and after this mans strange construction , it will be railing to tell a man his faults : and truly , when i seriously consider , how gross and numerous his are , as by his very book appears , methinks he was hard put to it for a covert . a railing accusation , is a false , as well as wrathful one , which he proves , pag. . therefore a true , though sharp reproof is none . i know it is the humor of such , who would live unrebukt , to render it more criminal to reprehend , then to commit a fault ; that they may save their heads from the knock of just censure . but who the railer was , we shall take leave to mention in its place : however , what has this to do with w.p. the second verse we are equally unconcerned in . could he have found a text that says , but these speak well of those things they know not ; he might have more approacht the matter by excluding our science in the law , in owning our great good-will unto it . of the latter , our tryal , as by him represented , is a demonstration ; but i could wish he were no worse , then those concerned in that scripture , which was , to speak evil of things they know not : for i am perswaded , he spoke malignantly evil of things he knew did not deserve it . we do not only tell the world , the tendency of our doctrine is to incline mankind to meekness , and patience , &c. but we bless the god of heaven and earth , many ten thousands do believe the same ; and that on better evidence , then hear-say , or bare report . but whether s.s. or his juncto , can with any tollerable shew of modesty condemn the quakers , as destitute of meekness and patience , who have so much wanted both , as they ( instrumentally ) have given the clearest evidence of the contrary , by their inhumane persecutions , as well as we have done it , by suffering the same , i am sure will be the question . he begins his appology thus . an high charge against sr. samuel starling , then lord mayor , ( if true ) cujus contrarium verum ; and therefore a railing accusation ; and that light ( which is as they say ) within them ( by which they are acted , and speak as they pretend ) is the spirit of the devil , the father of lyes . these words both deny , and give a charge , but with how much truth and reason i shall examine , and begin with the latter . i take this expression to be the most venomous of all his libel , and seems to come hot from a blaspheming gnashing spirit , through a vexed consciousness of guilt . the light we profess to be guided by , is so far from being the spirit of the devil , the father of lyes ; that its of god , the father of truth . here may be read the text , inserted in the period of his title page , for he speaks evil of divine dignities , who speaks against the light ; for god is light. and he that says he hath fellowship with god , and walks not in the light , he lyes , and deceives himself . and if this scurrilous libeller had ever known what it was to obey this holy light , he would have forborn so impudent an assertion : but 't is an evident sign of a feared conscience as well as great ignorance , to publish to the world , that light is the spirit of the devil , and not of god. how many times do the scriptures commemorate god and christ by this epethite ? christ was promised by that very name , i will give him for a light , to lighten the gentiles . and john said of him , that he was the true light , that enlightneth every man. and christ gives this testimony of himself , i am the light of the world. also the apostle paul , what ever is reproved , is made manifest by the light , and john thus , god is light , &c. if you walk in the light , as christ is light , &c. and in the revelations , the lamb shall be thy light , &c. and of god it s said , he dwells in light god is light , and in him is no darkness at all , &c. but in this man there is the very blackness of darkness , who calls light darkness , and darkness light , evil good , and good evil. next i cannot chose but observe , how abruptly he falls from the matter of his chapter , to blaspheme our holy light. a high charge , the contrary whereof is true : and that light , which is in them , is the spirit of the devil . behold the confusion and incharity of the man ; nay , a rude pulling upon his own head the vengeance of the god of light. did he , or any else , ever hear us pretend to own another light , then in the phrases , and from the scriptures before mentioned ? i am assured they did not : and though i deny his imputation , yet what if i , or any quaker on earth , or all of them , had acted injuriously to him , or any man ; must that blessed light , we say is given of god ( and more then pretend we are guided by ) be villified for our failings ? nor is it less then wretched blasphemy , for any to say , that because s.s. is a most horrible imposter , therefore the grace , or light which god has given him , is the spirit of the devil . but this proves to me his impiety beyond all other demonstrations ; for nothing's more common , then where men with wilful obstienacy , have lived a rebellious and wicked life against gods light and spirit in their consciences , there to spurn with gnashing teeth , and scalded tongues , in blasphemous expressions against god , and his tabernable , and those that dwell in heaven . but besides , his very words carry such weakness and confusion with them , that i will easily from thence inferr , a vindication of our light and friends . and that light which is ( as they say ) then he does not say it , which implies , that he thinks ( we lye , at least are mistaken ) within them ( by which they are acted and speak , as they pretend ) which supposes that he believes we are not really so acted , nor do we speak by it , only that we make it our pretence ) is the spirit of the devil , the father of lyes . if i understand him , or his words , this is the genuine and true construction of them . that light , that is in them , is the spirit of the devil the father of lyes ; yet i wont say it ; and i believe it s but their pretence to say they act or speak by it . if this been't the very sense of the words , none can be ; and if this sense doth not vindicate our light in his own thoughts , from being diabolical , and vs from being led by such a lying spirit , let the understanding reader judge . in short , this i must and will say , by the knowledge of that light , and for it , that as it gives man the true discerning , weight , and measure of spiritual things , with their differences ; so can no man have access to god , in any duty or action of his life , nor feel true peace with him , or the cleansing benefit of the blood of jesus christ ( who is god over all blessed for evermore ) but as he comes to be directed and guided by it to keep the commands of god , and himself unspotted from the world. but trouble and remorse of spirit ever was , and ever will be the portion of such as rebel against it . in him was life , and his life the light of men ; if ye walk in the light , as he is in the light , ye shall have fellowship one with another , and the blood of jesus shall cleanse you from all sin. more might be said of this particular , but i am perswaded , here is enough to satisfie the consciences of all unbyast readers . the former part relating to his denial of the charge of disloyalty and temporizing , against him they call sr. s. starling ; i shall so far take into my consideration , in defence of the aspersed author of the tryal , as to tell this parisite libeller only what the world says of him , and particularly the city of london ; which if not true , it s both little to the purpose , and he is the more belyed ; but first we will hear the defence . i think it necessary ( says this apologist ) in his vindication , to desire the curteous reader , to enquire of sr. ed. deering , dr. whitcock , mr. christopher flower , and francis pemberton , esquires of the middle-temple ; who can bear witness of his loyalty at cambridge , in the years , , . and in the years , , , . he apply'd himself to the study of the laws , and could not be admitted to the bar , because he utterly refused to subscribe the cursed ingagement : witness cornelius hooker esquire , nicho. jacob esquire , both barristers of greys-inn , and his contemporaries . we want the consequence . what ? was he therefore no temporizer ? nothing less . not that the reputation of the persons named must therefore be impeacht , or lessened . but some are ready to ask , why s.s. should think it fit to name so many persons , in his defence , and yet omit to insert a certificate from any one of them : their testimonies are at best but in embrio ( vnborn to us ; ) nor is it possible they should be witnesses of all the actions of his life . but granting what is said , to be true : was he accused of temporizing when a boy at cambridge ? although methinks t is indiscreetly urged , that we should ask of dr. whitoock if he were not compelled to leave the vniversity , ( loyalty being out of fashion , ) who remained a master of a colledge there . i do not mention it to spot that doctor ; for i know none of that coat of a more universal temper , and worthy of being esteemed learned ; but to detect this ridiculous sribler of inadvertency . i must confess , the first he refers to , i have an experienced knowledge of , and to whom i esteem my self oblieg'd by many high instances of kindness ; which not so much , as his own evenness of temper , would make me entertain more favourable thoughts ; but as he is cited to determine a case , not tim'd to the charge , so is he wholly silent in the matter : and though his name , with me , gives the most of reputation , to his whole paragraph ; yet , quod non lego , non credo . nor is the instance of being at grays-inn esteemed material to the purpose , it being of later times , to which the reflection quarrelled with , has no relation , and therefore overlookt as frivolous to this occasion , though some say , they talk as if there were no such matter . but he hopes , to supply this defect , with this general and dubious addition . from . until his majesties restauration , he was a trader in the city ; and how he demeaned himself in those crumwellian times , all that knew him will witness he walkt antipodes to the genious of that age , to the endangering of his life and estate . pag. . answ . that this is a general reference , is manifest , and of whom to enquire he does not tell us : would he have us send to enquire who knew him then , in order to know what he was then ; some think it might have been as cheap for s.s. to particularize one in those ten years time of loyalty , which was to the purpose , who instanc'd so many before to no purpose : this leaves ▪ a stronger jealousie then before , but with none less then the quakers , because none are less concerned in the matter . but that he was this invincible royalist , he gives us this instance . his majesty being by gods providence restored , he was esteemed for his loyalty , a fit person to be of the jury , upon the kings judges , and passed a juror upon no less then eighteen of those assassinating traytors . but how unwise , if not disloyal , this expression is , some think it may concern the king , at least his justices to consider : as if that those persons had not been condemned by indifferent men , sway'd by the only force and sence of law ; but such , as were therefore esteemed fit to be of the jury , because aversly principled in point of judgment and affection , i boldly affirm it a reflection so indiscreet & malignant that it deserves a check severer , then any expression in the discourse , entituled , the peoples ancient and just liberties asserted ; and that not more from the kings justices , then the person he would be thought to vindicate . after all that he has said , the apologist thinks it needless further to vindicate his loyalty , since never questioned by any , but those sceptical quakers , whose business is to asperse our religion , laws , and all men , that are not of their cursed principles . therefore he makes this offer ; that if w.p. can make out that the● late lord mayor , ever wronged any of the kings friends , either in body , goods , or good name one penny , that he shall restore to the gentleman , whosoever he be , a thousand pounds , for every penny worth of wrong . but as i do assure this libeller , that some of eminent rank , and no quakers ( as he is pleased to term them ) were the first that took occasion to speak of that persons temporizing ; and therefore question'd by others ; so is it an aspertion wickedly groundless , that we defame laws , religion , and all men , that are not of our principles , since we have ever been on the suffering hand ; and still proclaim it as one of our fundamental points of doctrine , to live peaceably and inoffensively , which we have not onely done ( notwithstanding all provocations ) but resolve , in gods strength , to continue the same passive people we have ever been . besides , i would fain know , why above others this offer should be made to william penn ; perhaps the author of the libel , thought him so great a child , as to be insnar'd into such reflections , as would subject him to the lash of his sr samuel , for a defamer ; but as i have learnt more prudence , so indeed more religion . i abhor to use scurrility instead of reason , and so should this libeller , of supplying the defects of his cause by railing . were i a man as bitter , as s.s. shews himself cholerick ; and but as apt to revenge , as he is to wrong , i might take this occasion to write the stories of the times , concerning his patron ; but since i hear he denies it any patronage ; and that i know that these things are no wayes profitable to the reader , but meer incentives to prejudice ; i heartily forgive all , having otherwise learnt christ ; and think it as well unmanly , as it is unchristan , to place the miscariages of any man , to the account of his cause . for though a good principle may be profest by a bad man ; yet is it impossible that a bad man should make that good principle bad ; and therefore its clear of any just suffering by his miscarriages . nor is there any such indigency in the case ; for the cause defended by s.s. is in it self so weak ( not to say wicked ) as we need not take sanctuary to personal miscarriages , the matter being too fruitfall of them . his base reflections on my father , shall be considered by themselves , and therefore i omit to answer them , as placed by him . but shall proceed to examine the remainder of his section . he charges the author of our tryal of false accusation , against alderm . bludworth , that he mov'd at the sessions to have a witness against harrison the fryer , and firer , sent to bridewell and whipt ; affirming , that neither did ald. bludworth make any such motion , nor did it appear , that harrison was a fryer , or firer . pag. . but as a bare denial is a weak apology ; so that he either threatned , or mov'd to have an evidence against a suspected fierer , sent to the house of correction to be whipt , i have heard several affirm : but whether this be true or false , it concerns not the legality or illegality of the old baileys procedure . as for harrison's being a fryer , i never believed it , nor can i think so meanly of the contrivers , as that they should imploy so witless an emissary ( at least for an eminent agent ) but if harrison may be exempted from that concern , it follows not that the fryer should . he pretends heartily to wish , that these libelling , lying , and discontented people , were as free of the design of putting the whole kingdom in a flame , as harison was , from the actual firing of the city . but i as heartily believe , that if as strong an evidence , and but half the circumstances ( urged against harrison ) had been brought against vs , to prove so detestable a design , as that of inflaming the kingdom , we should have hardly found that can ▪ did release , i am sure , not so kind an apology ; since s.s. sticks not to suspect vs , more of the one , then he does harrison of the other . but whilst he hypocritically uses michaels words to the devil , the lord rebuke thee , they are truliest apply'd to himself ; whose diabollical suggestions are plain discoveries , how chearfull he could sacrifice us , to his malice and fury ; for which the god of heaven and earth , will judge and recompence . the indiscretion of the recorder , he rather aggravates , then defends ; but it is so much his practice , through his whole discourse , that the wonder would be , to find it otherwise . he begins thus : the accusation against the recorder is twofold . first , that he should say , that there would be a law made the next session of parliament , that no man should have the protection of the law , but such as conform to the church . this saying of the recorder is falsly and maliciously recited , for he said , we shall not alwayes be at this trade with you ; you will find , the next session of parliament , there will be a law made , that those that will not conform to the law , shall not have the protection of the law. pag. . i hope , for the reputation of this famous city , their recorder was not at the finding out of this malicious difference in the recital , as s.s. is pleased to tearm it . how much the two expressions differ , or rather , how little , is obvious ; since 't is the word church that makes it ( if it makes any ) i am of opinion , that the former is but a necessary explanation of the latter ; for if the law we must be conform'd to , relates to ecclesiastical affairs , then what 's the difference , betwixt our not receiving the protection of the law , unless we conformed to the church , and our not receiving the protection of the law , unless we conform to a law relating to the church , or a church law. the wretched folly , and bala stupidity of this libeller , has wounded more the persons he would vindicate , then what the author of the tryal was supposed to do , with all his opposition . what he means by those blessed saints , whom he says , we follow , that made a law , that those that would not subscribe the wicked engagement against king and house of lords , should not have the benefit of the law &c. we are to seek ; and are as far from finding , by the help his ill-stockt ingenie may afford us ; but i perceive the man can venture to prophane as well as lye , though his wit fails him more in the former , then his wickedness does in the latter . 't is sad , that nought but holy ground will serve such swinish spirits to trample on . but what if they acted irreligiously , and inhumanly too , must that be laid at their doors , who not only were unconcerned with them , but persecuted by them ? and that for writing against the imposition of that engagement , and refusing to take it : but if it was then esteemed so great an evil by s.s. how comes it now to be transmuted to a moral good ? was it unreasonable then , and is it reasonable now ? can the nature of a persecuting act be changed , because the parties in point of power be ? his lex talionis , is not lex talionis to us ; for never having sufferred by us , there is no ground for retaliation or revenge . but we understand the mans meaning , and still fail not to meet with frequent instances of his wishes for us . i shall conclude this section with one of them , and the most fatal both to religion and the law. the second accusation against the recorder is , that he should say , till now i never understood the reason of the pollicy and pr●dence of the spaniards , in suffering the inquisition amongst them , and certainly it will never be well with us , till something like the spanish inquisition be in england . pag. . the infererence the libellers make , is , what doth this but justifie that hellish design of the papists , to have prevented the first reformation ? this is a wretched and uncharitable construction of the recorders words . these words do no wayes justifie the papists , if these libellers had but the least grain of charity , they would have construed the words , cum grano salis , as the rule of charity directs all words to be come strued . and they will admit of no other construction , but this , viz. that if the papists be so pollitick and prudent by their inquisitian , to maintain their false religion , surely it will be the protestants prudence to find wayes , for the preservation of their true religion . pag. . i have been very faithfull and patient in the recital of this poor defence , of which i can give no better character , then that t is like the rest . 't is manifest , the words are granted , i now hope they will not be longer dis-believed when confirmed by the hands of two witnesses , the author of the tryal , and this priviledged s.s. but he says , it ought to be construed cum grano salis , with allowances , and in the best sense , which counsel had been tollerable from any , but from him that has shown himself so void of any ; and that which is the master-piece of all his foolery , is , his ridiculous construction he makes of it himself ; as if that could be a good way of preserving the protestant religion ; that is an hellish one in the papists . but why an hellish one ? because it intends to force to an hetrodox religion , and not rather by reason of the coercive barbarous nature of the punishment it self . and can any think , that an inquisition , to inforce men to confess to the protestant faith , is not equally cruel , with that of the papists . the protestants would be so far from having any advantage upon the papists , for the inhumanity of his inquisition , that his own practice would seem but the second edition of the papists cruelty . it is not either of those names that renders it more or less lawful , but the nature of the thing it self . and had this libeller but ever read the ancient protestant apollogies , he might have better informed his peevish mind of their opinions . the true religion took ever sanctuary to its own innocency and verity , and not to the dumb materials of external force . but this expression would make one think , that under a protestant profession , there lodgeth a popish spirit ; and that the same interest , which urged spain to erect an inquisition , in the recorders sence , should obliege england to employ the same hellish tyranny , to torture her poor dissenters , ( though free-born natives . ) but if that were his meaning , and such counsel should be taken , it were endless to consider the unexpressible miseries , that would attend us : all law would be subjected to the zealous anathemas of ecclesiastical officers ; and religion speak no other language , then that of inquisition . we have hitherto boasted much in the self-evidencing verity of the protestant faith , but this were to bring it justly into jealousie with all ; that having so long decryed coercive power , should vehemently employ it , to its own-promotion . the papists would not only have cause to believe the ground of primative seperation , was single interest , but an example to their hand , what measure they ought to meet to the pootestants abroad ; which reduceth all religion in a way of subserviency to the government , and conscience to its conveniency : but this had been forgotten , as well as it is forgiven , had not the inadvertency of s.s. brought it the second time upon the stage . part iii. a vindication of my deceased fathers reputation , from the false and unworthy reflections of this scandalous libeller . since to disturb the grave , and rake into the ashes of the dead , was ever held detestable with infidels ; we may on easie tearms inform our selves , to what an ebb of vertue this man has brought himself , who is so dry of all christianity , that there remains not the least drop of that vulgar decency , eminently in vogue with very heathens : for as with them such might justly be accus'd , as were not disabled from answering for themselves ; so death having dislodged the persons of any , their charity esteemed it a protection to their names ; from whence came that common saying , de mortuis nil nisi bonum , let us speak no ill thing of the dead . but though this be urg'd , yet that it s as ill observ'd by s.s. i shall proceed to shew . he takes occasion in the close of his defence of s. starling ▪ to fall thus heavily upon me and my father , as if he could not do the one without the other . but i suppose this wild rambling colt , w. penn , mistakes , when he chargeth these things upon the late lord mayor , he means his seir deceis'd . doubtless the man was toucht : what course similitudes are these ? did ever man so brute himself in print ? but i dispise his drayish terms , and apply my self to scan the matter , leaving him to wipe himself , of that dirt , he thought to cast on others . i had so little reason to doubt my fathers constancy , that in the sense debated , i know few of greater . 't is true , he was actually ingaged , both under the parliament and king , but not as an actor in our late domestick troubles ; his compass alwayes steering him to eye a national concern , and not intestine wars ; and therefore not so aptly theirs , in a way of opposition , as the nations . his service therefore being wholly forrain , he may be truly said to serve his country , rather then either of those interests , so far as they were distinct to each other ; and for this evil , i hope he may be held excusable . but the rayler proceeds [ who from a captain was made oliver's high admiral , for his great service , in promoting ▪ that new instrument . ] which is a lye so impudent , as both his commission , and men of note can prove , that first , he made no such extempory leap , as is suggested to have been his recompence , for promoting crumwells interest ; but past through many known offices , as of rere-admiral , vice-admiral , and admiral of ireland , and vice-admiral of england ▪ before he had the general ship conferred on him . and secondly , that oliver was but then general himself , and not proclaim'd protector till several moneths , if not above a year after the death of general dean , whom my father immediately succeeded . and therefore a very forgery , that for promoting that new instrument , he first was advanced to the office of high-admiral . i would that this libeller should know , that from a lieutenant , he had past through all the eminent offices of sea-imployme●t , and arrived to that of general , about the thirtieth ye●r of his age ; in a time , full of the biggest sea-action , that any story mentions , ; and when neither bribes , nor alliance ; favour , nor affection , but ability only could promote . i write not this to vaunt ; it is below my principle and practise ; but to defend an abused relation , i could say no less . he adds [ who afterwards did eminent service , for the english nation , at hispaniola , when he delivered the flower of the english-souldiery a sacrifice to the cow-killers , ] this is an untruth so manifest , that no man , making conscience of telling lyes , did ever charge it on him . t is most notorious , that his imploy , was only as general of the fleet : and that the miscarriage lay not there , the history of that affair not only relates , but the libellers own words prove : for what had he to do with the english army ? who , first , had no command over them , it being the charge and office of a distinct general . and next , he never went a shore during the whole exploit ( but at barbadoes , many hundred leagues short of the theater on which that tragedy was acted , ) and lastly , let me tell the man , that when the forelorn and land-generals regiment were routed , it was the sea-regiment ( commanded by vice-admiral w. goodson ) that stood the shock , and stopt that deluge . and not to reflect on any , but vindicate my deceast father ; that conquest , which was in any respect obtained , was owing mostly to the fleet , and that no less by land then sea. but why the flower of the english army ? 't is manifest . the man had better thoughts of those times then he dares express ; for what he rails furiously against elsewhere , as persons imposing the wicked engagement , and assassinating traitors , &c. he now intitles to the defence of the english nation . and since the then english army , was the remainder of those souldiers , that not only subverted the kings forces , but protector'd oliver crumwell ; it is evident he makes it his army ( at least ) so far as he was concerned in being an english-man . besides , methinks the man bemoans their loss , though in circumstances very untrue ; for neither were they the flower of that army ( i thought they had been all weeds in his account ) nor could the flower of them have been sacrificed to the cow-killers : but the author of that ingenious pamphlet , of the worlds mistake in oliver crumwell , has rendred a true reason of that miscarriage , viz. that because the design was laid in a●arice and pride , hoping by the inexhaustible wealth of the indies , to have establisht a new gentry and nobility , as a foundation for a new monarchy ; heaven set it self against the enterprize . and therefore 't was not so much the miscarriage of the people there , as the just vengeance of the almighty , for making that unjust war with spain , and disguizing the design to the spanish ambassador , with reitered dissimulations , and horrible impostures , as the same author more at large relates . i then submit to the judgment of sober men , if this reflection carries the least of weight or verity with it . but he will not leave the matter here ; for says he , this was the renegado , worse then three turks , that performed such excellent service , in the late ducth wars , in plundering the two east-india dutch ships of the prize-goods , for which he was turned out of the house of commons . i shall still wave his surrility , and attend the matter : his service in the last dutch war , will not be questioned by any man , that dares to set his name to it : not that i would be thought to justifie wars ; i know they arise from lusts . but this being matter of fact , i shall take leave to tell this libeller , that the success of the first engagement , where about twenty four ships were taken , burnt , and sunck ; two thousand five hundred prisoners ( said to be ) brought home , besides what were slain , and wounded of the hollanders ; at the expence of but one old duch prize ( that for want of sail fell into their body ) and about three hundred english men slain , h●s been greatned , beyond all common ellogi●s , by the insuceesfulness of later engagements , whence greater things were promised and expected . in short , how far he was a master of his art , both as a seaman , and as a general ; i leave to the observation of his friends , his own constant success , and what hereafter may come to publick view of his own remarks . as for that false aspersion , of plundering the dutch east-india-men , i shall avouch my narrative of the fact to be true , being an eye-witness , and more then any concerned in what related to his proportion . 't is not unknown that two such ships were taken , though it was never known , nor believed , by any in their wits , that they were worth the fifth part of what was vulgarly bruited in the world. one of them was taken by a captain , belonging to his squadron they call the earl of sandwich ; and the other , by one of my fathers : but that my father was ever on board of either , or that he would suffer her to be main'd by any of his own ships-company ; or that he ever took , or caused to be taken , one clove , nutmeg , blade of mace , or skain of silk , the common lading of the prizes ; but by written order from his superior , as his share of the divident ( for about sixteen moneths service at sea , and the expence of a constant table ) i utterly deny , and am perswaded , no man on earth can ever prove ; for could it have been , i am not ignorant how some of this libellers complection , would have compast sea and land , to have fecht him to brook house ; but to as little purpose as others were ; so that as from wrong premisses there can be no true conclusion ; so to say he was therefore turned out of the house of commons ( or for any thing else ) was a down-right falshood ; but suspensions upon bills against any man , are customary . he concludes his slanders and scurrility with this hope , that my father leaving so great an estate of just ( he means vnjust ) gotten goods to so conscientious a son , as my self , i will make satisfaction to the king. but as this fools bolt is soon shot ( and that to have an estate in this age , there seems nothing more requisit then that it be thought so ) so do i affirm upon very good knowledge ( if i may be credited ) that after all my fathers great , many , and continual imployments in the world , for near thirty years past , and his frequent opportunities of inriching his family ; he could never call himself master of half that estate , which is the private acquisition of ordinary merchants ( not to say brewers , and for ought i know just-gotten goods too ) and if war be allowable with s.s. and the consequence of it ; he has had many single hits , each of which might have enricht him more , then what he left , had he been but as forward to feather his own nest , as he was heartily inclined to acquit his conscience in the discharge of his trust to his country ; of which i will give an instance , to be attested by many . being admiral in the streights of the mediteranian , about the years , and . many prizes were taken , and some of great value : amongst the rest , was one , that had five chests of silver and gold , amounting to several thousands of pounds ; which he was so far from embezling ( to his own use ) or admitting of the plea of his captains ( distribute it amongst us , & if ever it be demanded , it shall be paid , or we will serve it out ) as he wholly denied his wife the curiosity of changing of but one piece of forreign gold ; for its equal weight of our own . and as in those times there was two great a watch over such men in employment , to inrich themselves at the cost of the publick ; so must i say , that his whole employment at sea , since the kings return , was not above sixteen moneths ; and for his other offices they admitted not of perquisits ; and i challenge the whole world to lay the just ignominy of but one bribe to his charge ; though , to speak modestly , a thousand families owe their advancement to his favour . but of how ill report and consequence it is , that men devoted in life and estate , to the service of the publick , should meet with so ill entertainment from the hands of such privateers , that never knew what it was to be of publick importance , may deserve the notice of all true patriots . but perhaps the libeller thought , that i ought as well to inherit my fathers miscarriages ( if any ) a● his estate ; which is contrary to gods practice , that imputes not the fathers iniquity to the son : but that may be one reason why it is his ; he shews a mind not a little anger-bit , who is not contented with the living , but besieges the tomb of the dead for farther satisfaction . yet after all his impudent folly and slander , he concludes with ▪ [ taceo caetera , de mortuis nil nisi bonum . ] but as he would make one believe , he could say worse , so he would have us to think he had said nothing ; who not only vented his worst abuses , but what are in themselves most wretchedly false . and as his saying , he should speak well of the dead , when he had said so ill , is a contradiction ; so his pretence of not saying more , is not less injurious ; for his silence has wrong'd us more , then his discourse : since to brow-beat the dead , and tryumph over their graves , s●ows a greater want of humanity , then i was wiling to think the debauchery of our age had reduc'd any man to ; but the pregnant instances of s. s ' s accomplishments have better inform'd me . and whosoever he is , i wish him repentance of these impieties , and sincerely declare my hearty forgiveness of all his aggravating injuries . part iv. the grand case in controversie , about the power of juries , clearly stated and rationally resolv'd . as a deserted path , over-grown by time , makes men to question if it had ever been a way : so the neglected case of juries power , over-run by the inchroachments of the bench , make many doubt if ever they had any . i shall therefore endeavour to state and vindicate the power of juries , from the assault of innovation ; and re-instate them of that authority and priviledge they are intituled to , and defended in , and by the fundamental laws of england . st [ per judicium parum ] as explained by the universal concurrance of laws and lawyers , we are to understand , a jury of our equals . d that no man shall be taken , or imprisoned , or be disseized of his free-hold , liberties , free-customs , or be out-lawed , or exiled , or any other way destroyed ; nor we shall not pass upon him , nor condemn him , but by the lawful judgment of his peers , or , by the law of the land , hen. . . this is the antient law of the land , confirmed by thirty two parliaments , acknowledged by all lawyers ; nay confest and quoted by the man in hand , pag. . d the question will be this , whether from this clause , and what is recorded as explenatory and confirmatory of it , there be sufficient to prove , that juries are judges of law and fact. first , in order to the clear stating and full resolving of the question , i shall explain briefly , and rescue the latter part of this law-text , from the wretched construction of s.s. which is this . or , is either disjunctive or copulative ; if disjunctive , then it must imply some other judges besides the jury : if copulative ( or for and ) it still implies another jurisdiction , besides that of the peers or jury ; his consequence is , that per legem terrae ( or the law of the land ) in that place , cannot ( as this novice insinuates ) be understood to be the tryal of the jury , but to be the tryal both of judge and jury , according to that maxim , ex facto jus oritur . i must confess my self to be a novice to this preposterous way of paraphrazing out of pure reputation . why if ( or ) be disjunctive , it must imply some other judges , i cannot see , and wonder at the mans impertenency ( if what 's so natural to him were to be wondred at ) for though expressions , or the manner of phraizing things may be disjunctive , yet that does no way follow , that the matters included in them should be so disjunctive of each other , as to imply a thing not con-natural : for instance , if i should say by way of promise to a man , do me such a service , and i will give thee an hundred shillings , or five pounds : does , or , imply another sum ? or that such a child is one thousand ninety and five dayes , or three years old : does or suppose a different age ? in short , [ per legem terrae ] or by the law of the land , cannot be understood exclusive of a judgment by peers , it being but a more ample and comprehensive way of phraizing the peoples right and priviledge of tryal by juries . if ( or ) be considered copulatively , he thinks it will fetch in the justices , as co-judges with juries ; but that conclusion is wrong ; for as such copulation disowns an exclusion of judgment by peers , and makes it part of the law of the land ; so let me tell him , that what is conceiv'd to be additional ( as by the law of the land ) cannot so easily be understood of justices , as of the whole legal form & method of tryal in the case mentioned with the whole rights and priviledges of juries and prisoners . that this is not mine own sence , but the laws , if his so much honored lord cook be to be credited , let him turn to fol. . of the d part of his institutes , where he will find this doctrine , tryals by the law of the land , are by due course and process of the law ; and they are by indictment and presentment of good and lawful men : and what is this , but , per juditium parum , or iudgment by iuries ? but of this more in the appendix . next , that as iuries are iudges of law and fact ( as hath been unhappily distinguisht ) mens interest , putting that assunder , that reason and law originally joyned tog●ther ) i shall proceed to evidence . . the first argument is drawn from the record of their own indictments . the indictment is found and given into the court as billa vera , or a true indictment , by the grand inquest , or iury of twelve men , before the court can take cognizance of the cause ; upon this it s recommended to the petty-jury , to judge the whole matter , and to deliver in their verdict or opinion , whether a.b. be guilty in manner and form. if then the indictment comprehends both law and fact , and that the jury is to give their judgment in manner and form , and that manner and form takes in , and includes the whole law and fact of the indictment ( as they manifestly do ) then , with great strength and clearness we may infer , that the iury is iudge of law and fact. . my second argument is drawn from the nature of the verdict given . judgment is the determination and result of law , therefore those who are authors of s●ch determinations or resolutions must needs be i●●ges of the law. how is it possible , that a jury can pronounce legale iudit●um , legal judgment , and yet not be judges whether the fact proved be obnoxious to the law , or not . juditium , quasi juris dictum , or the mouth of law ; which being the juries , they pronounce law as well as fact : a verdict is a child composed of law and fact , and inspirited with the opinion of the jury . this is further evidenced from their own proceedings at the old baily , where they imprisoned the jury for not bringing in their verdict , so as to render our meeting vnlawful , which they could never do , and not be judges of that law the meeting was supposed to have transgrest . in short , since guilty , and not guilty , are verdicts ; and that they cannot be given , but where a ▪ fact is obnoxious , or not obnoxious to law ; and since none are to give that verdict , but the jury , it follow● , that the jury are only judges , because they only can criminate or clear . and where the power of determination is , there is the judgment of law ; but that is in the jury . where there is no law , there can be no transgression . now such transgression being supposed , in the verdict of guilty , it is most plain , that guilty cannot be pronounced but with a reference to the law transgrest ; and that reference cannot be made , but by such as are judges of the extent of the law. . my third argument shall be drawn from the punishment of the malefactors . to punish any as a malefactor , it is requisit he be proved such ; but it is impossible he should be so , but with respect to some law transgrest : nor can he be concluded such a transgressor , unless his fact be judged obnoxious to the law : and where thi● judgmen● is , there rests the judg-ship of law and fact ; for that he should be legally punisht , pursuant to a legal judgment , and yet the authors of this legal judgment , not to be judges o● the breach of law , is some of the profoundest non-sence in nature : what is this but to render the jury meer cyphers , when they shall only tell the court , that which the witness shall have swear to their hand ? but because their verdicts are guilty , or not guilty , which determine the fact meritorious of punishment , or acquittance ; therefore have they the only power of judgment . . my fourth argument shall be drawn from a maxim of their own , viz. ex facto jus oritur . therefore , says s.s. the iury are not only iudges . it is such a way of drawing consequences , as i have not been acquainted with ; for nothing can be clearer then the contrary to this conclusion . if out of the fact the law arises , then those who are judges of fact , cannot escape being judges of law also ; for fact gives it . this passage puts a ne plus ultra to the pretence of difficulty , and the necessity of alwayes asking questions of the justices ; since the nature of the fact clearly proved , carries the legality , or contrary in the bosom , if not in the front of it ; and therefore obvious to the plainest and most rustick capacity . . my next argument shall be drawn from the ill-consequences of the opposite opinion , viz. that men may be bought or sold out of their lives , liberties and estates . for if an enraged bench , or otherways interested be the sole judges of law , then let any man be indicted of the most lawful act imaginable , it being such as he cannot deny , and which is prov'd by evidences ; the jury must bring him in guilty , and so expose him to the sentence of the justices , by leaving the judgment of the law , to their prepossest brests . . my last argument will be this , that upon the opinion of our adversaries , there must be two evidence ; one of the fact , which is the juries ; and one of law , which is the justices . but because the law knows no such conceit , and that the single verdict of twelve men , is , and must be legally binding ; therefore are they judges both of law and fact. object . their main objection is , that if the justices be not judges of law , how comes it to pass that the iury asks the sence of the law at their mouthes ? according to that maxime . ad questionem iuris respondent iudices , et ad questionem facti respondent iuratores , as in page . of the libel under examination . answ . this is so far from lessening the force of our preceding arguments , that from this objection we will fetch matter enough , to make a subsequential one , and that of no small import to the business controverted . i grant a possibility of such an ignorance in iuries , that there may be a necessity to inform them of the law , by the better skill of the iustices : but what then ? therefore must they not be iudges of law , so far as concerns the fact ? nothing less ; for though the iustices may tell them the law ( and it s their place ) yet that 's no part of the verdict , as so said by the iustices ; but as understood , digested , and juditiously made the iuries , by their own free-will and acceptance , upon their conviction of the truth of things reported by the bench. as a man may be educated in any religion ; but to make it his proper religion , 't is requisite that he believe and embrace it juditiously , not implicitly . thus we frequently find the house of lords to ask the opinion of the justices in parliament ; is the vote , order , or act , therefore the judges , and not the parliaments ? the like in the kings council ; is the opinion of the kings atturney , or solicitor , the iudgment , resolve , and order of the council , because he said it , and not because they made it theirs , by submitting to the reason , or legality of the thing debated and delivered ? and in london , are the orders of the mayor aldermen , and common-council , the recorders , or city council's , because his , or their opinion in point of law was ask'd ? experience shews the contrary . from all these premisses , 't is time we draw this one most evident conclusion ; that notwithstanding juries of late are grown so out of fashion , and of power with some , that to shew any , is to incur the threats and menaces of the court , to have their noses slit , their throats cut , their bodies imprisoned , and drag'd at a carts tayle through the city , &c. yet that they are by the antient laws of england , and force of reason , the only right and proper judges , as well of law as fact. part v. the tryal , as related by s.s. examined ; and his notes thereon animadverted . that i may appear to all impartial men , unworthy of those reflections , and hard names s.s. is pleased to heap upon me , i shall conclude the vindication of my innocency with his own relation of my tryal . and truly , when i weigh his frank confessions , concerning passages the most notorious ; i should be amazed at his indiscretion , did i not know how usual it is with god to leave such men under strong infatuations : for , to give it a short character , it s almost verbatim , the second edition of our own tryal ; i mean that part which related to the transactions of the court and prisoners . and whether he has vindicated them from those expressions , which to all sober men are most detestable , or backt the accusation of the author of our tryal , by his publique acknowledgement of them ; let any but s.s. and his juncto judge . how then the author of that tryal could justly be condemned , . for his relation as scurrilous , and malicious , which is so exactly copied after by s.s. will be hard for any man of sence to think , unless he brings his own account under the same imputation . but he tell us , that he thought good to set down the names of those justices who were present ( honoris causa ) with all their additions and titles ; that so the world may know that the city of london wants not worthy patriots , who dare call to an account these vile railing rabshekahs of this age. and the rather because the libeller hath in a disgraceful way prefixt their names without any additions to his narative , thereby intending to make them odious to the people . the persons nam'd are , sr. sam. starling , knight , then lord mayor . sr. jo. robinson , kt. and bar. sr. tho. bludworth , kt. and alder. sr. wil. peak , kt. and alder. sr. jo. howell , kt. and recorder . sr. rich. ford , kt. and alder. sr. jo. shelden , kt. and alder. sr. jo. smith , sheriffs . sr. jam. edwards , sheriffs . to which i must needs say , i knew a time , when the city of london had a better advocate . what man in his wits would not despise the folly and meanness of this wretched pedagoge ? the weakness of whose discourse eminently shews the ricketted constitution of the author . first , he has but little of religion , that dares to lie in the common field of every mans knowledge ; since he denies that ever the author of the tryal gave the aforementioned persons , any additions , when ( alder. ) is to every one of them , that really is so . next , i cannot chose but observe his vanity , as if the omitting of the title ( sr. ) had been a robbing them of their honour ( i am sure they have very little that have no more ) but if to give them their own names , be matter of disgrace , it is worth our while to consider , how disgraceful those persons were in this libellers account , before they had that title given them ; though i am apt to think , they were not less reputed before , then since ; and because they write not themselves so much as that author printed them , and that none can suppose them to omit those titles , disgracefully to themselves ; it is both ridiculous and false to charge such a design upon the author . but whilst he calls me , and my fellow-prisoner , the vile and railing rabshekahs of this age , and ventures to load us with slander and reproach ; methinks he proves himself to be of that ill-bred tribe , in accusing us for such . but to his nota's upon the tryal . nota . page . the prisoners in stubborn manner refusing to take their hats , they were put on again by the same person . answer , this is a lye , to be confirmed by hundreds ; we never did , nor never shall refuse to take our hats , and put them on too , which we had no time to do ; for having been taken off by the keepers ( i suppose in kindness ) seeing the cour● displeas'd , or rather some in it ) the mayor ( i think it was ) cryed out , sirrah , who bid you pull off their hats ? put on their hats again . at which the same keepers put them on , of which the author of our tryal has been more particular . nota . pag. . the court observing that the prisoners standing on the leads behind the bar , with their hats on , facing the court all that day , as it were daring the court to a tryal ; so that the court , and all the spectators lookt upon them , as offering a great affront to the honour of his majesties court ; the justices were resolved to chastize them for the same . answ . his second nota , is his second lye. for first we were not upon the leads any time of the day , as many can attest , but in the bale-dock , or within the bar , attending upon the tryals of thieves and murderers , to the displeasure of the spectators ▪ but not on our part . besides , that this was done upon meer design , is evident , because neither were the goaled , nor we , so hardly treated the first day of our appearance , when there was equal ground for it . nota . pag. . this is a great falshood ; for their hats were put on , behind the bar , before they came into court. answ . but it is a great truth that we were not behind the bar at all , until towards the evening , when cast into their stinking hole , and there indeed they stay'd us behind the bar three hours . and for mine own part , i do declare , my hat was clapt upon my head by the keepers hand , within a very little space of the place in which we usually stood during the whole time of our tryal . nota . pag. . this is insignificant canting . answ . what ? wil. mead saying , fear god , and dread his power . o stupendious impiety ! that ever any profest protestant should have so much out-sinned all sence of god , and his dreadful power , as to repute that seasonable exhortation , insignificant canting : but this makes us the less to wonder at our sufferings from such . nota . pag. . it was by sr. john robinson observed , that bushel , the tender conscienced jury-man , made an offer to kiss the book , but did not ; wherefore he was called upon by the court to be sworn again . ans . how much that quick-sighted lievtenant , had more jealousie and prejudice then others in his eye , the many spectators present can best decide ; or mine own share , i did not observe him to gratifie the common custom of the court , more in the latter then former tender of the oath unto him : but with what prepenst unkindness and disdainful ketch , he was treated , was obvious to those about him . i perceive it is as criminal to be tender-conscienced , as it is esteemed canting , to bid men fear god : for as that religious advice was made matter of mockage , so this good quality is not less rendred suspitious . but how tender-conscienced such persons are , that make so ill use of such expressions , is best manifest in their severe prosecutions of men that really are so . nota . pag. . as clear evidence as ever was offered to any jury , two witnesses prove the fact against both the prisoners , and the prisoners confess the whole matter in effect , and justifie themselves , and declare they will do the like again , whatever laws the king and parliament can provide against the same . o confident impudency ! surely both king and parliament will take notice of penn's arrogancy . answ . it will be wholly needless to repeat the evidence , twice done already ; but to his nota i answer thus , st that the witnesses did not swear , that we were at an vnlawful assembly , and that they were there , the jury never scrupled . that part of the indictment , which was so indigestable with the jury , was the illegallity of the assembly ; and since the court was not content with their verdict upon a meer fact , it argues , that they would have made them judges of law , by determining the legallity , or illegallity of the meeting , not sworn to by the witnesses . d the mayor and recorder differed in the point ; the mayor was for sacrificing me only ; the recorder thought it unreasonable that i should go without a mate , and justifies his apprehension , from the word conspiracy ; but where the conspiracy was , we have leave to think . the bench being thus divided in the point , 't was ill observed by s.s. since the person he most vindicates lies most liable to reflection . d though we confess to have been there , yet we deny to have been at an vnlawful assembly ; which being the purpose of the indictment , it was unseasonably observed . but ly we acknowledge before god , angels , and men , that meet we must , and encourage others to do the like ; yet so , as never to contrive , or abet the least disturbance to the civil peace : and if from hence he stiles me impudent , and arrogant , i am contented to bear his scurvy epithites till he is better learnt . one passage i cannot well omit , because it gives the man the lye that spoke it . when w. mead askt r. brown , what he did there ? was he a justice or no ? if not , desired him to come down : r. brown is said to answer him , by the relation of s.s. sir , i am a justice , and you are an impudent fellow . which answer carries as much of falshood , as incivility and folly. for , first , he was no justice in that place , the ground of the question . and next , he might have spared the insolency of stiling him an impudent fellow , who is , in external respects , a person no ways inferior to himself . and lastly , he shews not a little folly , or s.s. for him , who ventures to call him an impudent fellow , in the end of the sentence , that he stiled ( sir ) in the beginning ( a title of so much honour with s.s. pag. . ) but if the author of the tryal gave not titles and additions , this man hath not been wanting in either . nota . pag. . how mr. penn plays upon the word common . answ . i play'd upon nothing , but for working in defence of the common law. some were so prodigal , as to play away my liberty . but s.s. will have it , that the mayor had law enough , to define the common one ; but at the rate he expresses it , he might have let it alone , unless his exposition had turned more to his account : for , if the common law be common reason , ( as he says the mayor defin'd it ) and that being a man , i have common reason ( which none of them had so much extrordinary reason , as to evince the contrary ) methinks they might have forborn so great an instance of no reason , as their commanding me to the bale-dock , for demanding common reason . i am well assured , that common reason criminates no assembly , peaceably met to worship god , without the least appearance of weapons offensive or defensive . nota . pag. . this nota referring to the jury's being judge of law and fact ( as unhappily distinguisht ) i omit to consider it further , it being fully unswered already in the fourth part of this discourse . nota . pag. . penn made such an uncivil noise , that the court could not give the jury the charge , he was therefore put into the bale-dock , which stands even with the bar ; and the prisoners might hear the charge there , as well as a prisoner might hear at the barr ; this therefore was a causeless exclamation . answ . if my noise was uncivil , it was because it was legal ; and i expect not a better character from such , as so proclaim me a broacher of new heresies , because i honestly demanded the free course of the fundamental laws of england . the plain truth was this ; that because i endeavoured to inform the jury of my case , and to take off the asperity of some mens passions , they turn'd me , and my companion , into the bale-dock , which though even with the bar , yet besides the main court , and so deeply impaled , that we could not see the court , nor hear the charge ; but upon information , that the recorder was charging the jury , i stept up , and my fellow-prisoner after me , and exclaimed against the irregularity of such proceedings . and for this plain reproof , and but necessary demand of the english right , of prisoners being present at the giving of the charge , commanded us into the hole , a place so noisom and stinking , that the mayor himself would have thought it an unfit sty for his swine . nota . page . six or seven of the jury men did agree to the mayors question ; upon which bushel , hammond , and two others opposed themselves , they allowed of no such word , as an unlawfull assembly in their verdict . answ . it s not the least unhappiness this libeller is attended with , to be frequent in self-contradiction ; for in the interogatories immediately precedent , the mayor speaks thus to the foreman of the jury . may. what , was it not an unlawfull assembly ? fore-m. my lord , this is all i had in commission . and yet this man was one of the seven s.s. would have a dissenter . i hope , since the fore-man had no more in commission , s.s. is to blame for so impudent an assertion , as that seven at that time dissented from the rest . nata . page . a peaceable innocent people indeed ; that when the king had seized the meeting-house into his hands ( as by law he might ) they would come and break open the doors ; they violently over-power'd the constable ; and his watchmen and 't is prov'd , that the people , at this time kick and spurn'd the constable , and his watch-men ; ●e endeavouring to dissipate this unlawfull assembly , as is sworn by read the constable . answ . this does but still aggravate : how much s.s. is an enemy to all truth , what if the door was broken open ? had not the quakers ( in justice and equity ) right to the place ? however , it is a most false consequence , that they spurn'd the constable , because he was spurn'd at their meeting , since many are accustom'd to crow'd after the constables and souldiers , who are no quakers , but come to see their usage . nor does read swear it was the quakers , but some people present : and some of the jury fully answered that part of the evidence , in this discreet observation , that it was impossible any man could pass through so great a throng , and not be pusht , or his feet trod upon . besides , it does not appear that the house was seized pursuant to any tryal , conviction , or judgment by the laws of england , and that such seizure is not according to the sence of them , appears by the statute of the th of charles the first , cap. . where it is expresly said , that neither his majesty , nor his council , have , or ought to have any jurisdiction , power or authority by english bill , petition , articles , libel , or any other arbitrary way whatsoever , to examine or draw into question , determine or dispose of the lands , tenements , hereditaments , goods and chattels of any subjects of this kingdom , but that the same ought to be tryed and determined , in the courts of justice , and by the ordinary course of law. nota . page ● . the jury in mr pen's opinion , and bushels both , are perjured men , for that at last they brought in a verdict contradictory to this . answ . those that have read the tryal will apprehend his meaning ; for upon their bringing me in , not guilty , of an unlawfull meeting ; but guilty onely of speaking in the pl●ce called grace-church-street ( and the court menacing them much , and saying , they would have a verdict , meaning guilty . ) i said , the consent of twelve men , is a verdict in law ; and if they bring in another verdict , contrary to this , they are perjured men. but what then ? therefore when they brought me in not guilty , had they perjudred themselves ? nothing less . i am ashamed to read so ridiculous a non sequitur in print . if i understand what contraries mean , the opposit to not guilty , must be guilty : but that they gave no such verdict absolutely , is manifest from the courts not receiving it ; for above all things they waited and prest hard for it . therefore to be guilty of speaking in grace-church-street , and not at an vnlawful assembly , is a not being guilty in law ; and consequently their verdict no contradiction . nota . pag. . at this time some of the jury complained to the court , that the four men , viz. bushel , hammond , and the other two , would starve them , and that they had brought strong-water-bottles in their pockets designedly . answ . 't is not the quakers light , but s.s. his darkness that is the father of lyes ; and miserable will be the end of such , as make them their refuge . for , first , there was no such complaint made . secondly , nor was there any just occasion for one . and lastly , methinks this libeller might remember that if he thought me condemnable , for not giving the justices more titles and additions then their own names , and that of aldermen ; he upon greater cause deserves a check , that cannot afford , those able and honest citizens , more then half their names , and scarcely that too . nota . pag. . the court having regard to the health of the jury , adjourned till seven next morning , although it was sunday , which otherwise they would not have done . answ . it was , and is a real question , whether the health of the jury , or condemnation of the prisoners , was most in their eye ; but no matter which : i shall briefly insist upon their adjournment to that day . i suppose it is not unknown to those that know law , that dies dominicus non est in lege dies , or , that the lords day , is not a day in law : that is , there ought not to be assizes , sessions , or termes held on that day ; because it is a time the law takes no cognizance of , nor has any relation to ; thus cook in his first instit . sect. . fol. . where he excludes that day from the number of those he calls dies juridici , or dayes in law. the consequence of which must needs be this , that their whole procedure at that session , becomes question'd , and void in law. but to justifie those transactions , they got a commission after sessions , anti-dated , from the time of that adjournment . i shall not much reflect upon the passage ; it carries , it s own comment with it : but methinks more skill in law , or moderation to the prisoners and jury , might have prevented such an extrajudicial procedure . nota . pag. . this is the fourth time the jury brought in this insignificant verdict , viz. that they find penn guilty of speaking in grace-church-street , and how this answers the question , viz. what say you ? is w. penn guilty of the matter whereof he stands indicted , in manner and form , or not guilty ? let the world judge whether that be a verdict or not : they thus often abusing the court , made the displeasure of the court against them , and surely not without cause . answ . this nota is upon the juries continuance of their verdict , of only bringing me in guilty of spe●king in grace-church-street , delivered first ▪ day morning : but how reasonable will be the matter of our inquiery and answer . if s.s. will have the jury only judge of fact ( which the recorder expresly aff●rmed on the bench , using words to this purpose , we will have you to know , that you shall not be judges of what the law says , &c. why are they here condemned for undertaking no farther ? the ●rought in the fact , but that the court thought incomprehensive of the indictment , which being complicated of law and fact , were to answer the question in manner and form. and if this doth not inthrone them judges , how far the fact reaches th● law , and whether by law a.b. is guilty or not guilty , i must confess my self mistaken ; and i am sure to have company enough of all men of sence and sobriety . so that what the jury is deny'd elsewhere , is given here , and s.s. equally angry , for their being , and not being sole judges . nota . pag. . william penn made such a noise in the court , that the court could not hear the jury , nor the jury the court. answ . if to speak to be heard , be noise . i was guilty of his observation ; but i need the less to vindicate my self , who have so many living witnesses of credit , to do it for me : if they would not hear me , they ought not to have condemned me ; but if they could condemn me , they in conscience ought not to over-rule , but hear me . but would any know the noise i made , read my words and 't will be found s.s. has only nois'd a fiction . upon their menacing of the jury , i thus spoke . it is intollerable that my jury should be thus menaced ? is this according to the fundamental laws ? ( thus far s.s. ) are not they my proper judges by the great charter of england ? what hope is there of ever having justice done , when juries are cheek ▪ t , and their verdicts rejected ? i am concerned to speak , and grieved to see such arbitrary proceedings . did not the lievtenant of the tower render one of them worse then a fellon ? and do you not plainly seem to condemn such for factious fellows , who answer not your ends ? vnhappy are those juries , who are threatned to be fin●d , and starved , and ruined , if they give not in verdicts contrary to their consciences . this was the noise charged upon me , and for this fetters commanded to be brought by the mayor ; how justly , let the ingenious reader judge . nota . pag. . vpon this mr. penn was silent and quiet , though nothing was done to him . answ . i perceive the man will rather play at small game ( as the proverb is ) then sit out . what ? would he suggest my fear to the world , after his own relation has given such large testimony of my boldness , in so much as to dare the court to a tryal , pag. ? or is he angry that i held my tongue ( as he says ) and yet the mayor and recorder so angry , that i spoke , as that i must be staked with iron fetters to the ground ; an unkindness i forgive , but which will render their carriage infamous with all sober and moderate men. but three things i observe , and conclude this ridiculous nota. s● that my retort upon the mayors menace was omitted by s.s. which was this . do your pleasure , i matter not your fetters . which was very far from being over-aw'd by their displeasure , as the remainder of my tryal manifested ( which i speak to gods glory , whose holy power carried my mind over the heads of all that there arraign'd or judg'd me . ) secondly , there was no occasion for much discourse , as by the tryal appears , the court being ready to break up , and then to whom should i speak . thirdly , i would that s.s. and his brethren should know , that i only worship , fear , and bow , before the glorious everlasting god of heaven and earth , and therefore dread not mortal man , whose breath is in his nostrils , and has power only to hurt the body , and that no further then a permitted him of god ; whose holy will i am resigned to answer , in doing and suffering , as he shall enable me . and whatever my portion be from this generation , whether good-report or bad-report , acceptance or suffering , i matter not ; but bles● his providence , and shall accept it all as an earnest of his eternal love , and rest in glory . nota . pag. . these men were very like to be starved , when they had rost-beef , capons , wine , and strong-drink , sent them ( as is ready to be proved ) during the time they were considering of their verdict . answ . this is but a vain surmize , and how positively so ever asserted , the proof remains behind , which had there been any ; it is not to be thought this libeller would have omitted it ; besides , the officers of the court were sworn to keep them from all sort of refreshmen . but had it been so , i see no evil in the thing , unless it be an evil to prevent men from starving , especially since they were not there encloyster'd for not agreeing in their verdict , but for agreeing in a verdict some persons humors would not allow for one , as the juries frequent cries , we are agreed , we are agreed , &c. do plentifully evidence . this ends his nota's , and i shall now take leave to remark on him . nota . my first observation will be this , that in his relation of my tryal , though in many things he does me right , yet in some places , he does both me and the law wrong ; for its familiar with him to slip over those expressions of mine , which tell the world , how vehemently i called for right ; and willing i was to be tried by the fundamental laws of england , whilst represented as a seditious person , which my soul abhors , thus pag. , , . but more especially that clause , i can never urge the fundamental laws of england , but you cry , take him away , take him away : but t is no wonder , since the spanish inquisition hath so great a place in the recorders heart . to which i might add his threatning to cart the jury about the city , &c. pag. . the intent of which unfair dealing must needs arise from an apprehension of the disadvantage and guilt that would be attributed to them ; whilst nothing more manifests both , then the partiallity of these parts of the narrative . nota . my second remark will be upon the folly of this boaster , which shews it self so great , that it is become already the scorn and raillery of the town : for insteed of casting a friendly covert over the nakedness of his patrons , he brings them out-stript in print , and allows , nay vindicates , those very indiscretions , which are irreconcileable with the sense of every sober man , and that hitherto were scarely credited by their enemies in the relation of our tryal , but now believed by their best friend , because divulged with a seeming priviledge in the account given by s.s. this appears . first , pag. , . in jo. robinson 's expression to edw. bushel a jury-man , that he deserved to be indicted more then any man , that had been brought to the bar that day . dly pag. . in the recorders saying to that person , you manifestly shew your self an abettor of faction . dly pag. , . in the recorders menace , i le have a positive verdict , or you shall starve for it . ly pag. . the same person to edw. bushel , you are a factious fellow , i le set a mark upon you ; whilst i have to do in the city , i le have an eye on you . ly pag. . again , you will find the next sessions of parliament , there will be a law made , that those that will not conform to the law , shall not have the protection of the law. ly pag. . the very same person thus again , bring another verdict , or you shall starve . ly pag. . and as that which is fittest to bring up the rear of all his threats , because the most malignant , i shall insert that notorious passage of the inquisition , as by s.s. till now i never understood the reason of the policy and prudence of the spaniards , in suffering the inquisition among them , and certainly it will never be well with us , till something like the spanish-inquisition be in england . of the mayor , he gives us this account . ly pag. . the mayor to ed. bushel thus , you are an impudent fellow , i will put a mark upon you . ly pag. . to the jury , what will you be lead by such a silly fellow as bushel , a canting fellow . ly pag. . to edw. bushel again . you are a factious fellow , and a course ought to be taken with you . ly pag. . edward bushel to t.b. i have done according to my conscience . mayor , that conscience of yours would cut my throat . e.b. no my lord it never shall . mayor , but rather then you shall cut my throat , i will in defence of my self , cut yours first . this last expression horribly belyes the mayor , and wrongs his words ; for many sufficient witnesses , they say , will deposite , that he fairly said , but i will cut yours , as soon as i can . ly pag. . and speaking to the jury , in reference to e. bushel , saith he , were i of the jury , rather then he should starve me , i would slit his nose for him . it was fairly done of s.s. and the whole city and kingdom are great debters , to his franck discovery , and plain acknowledgements . we may now easily understand the meaning of the word mark , by the paraphase of slitting of noses ; for that expression seems to be the key that opens the mystery of the former : of how ill consequence that threat has proved , the late tragical assassinates , in several places shew . i will not say , they may be imputed , to so ill a presedent as the mayors menace to edw. bushel , from his tribunal seat , in all his court formalities ; but certainly they must be as neer a kin , that offer such barbarous affronts to parliaments and juries , as threatning and doing are . it is hoped , there will be no further need of such remarks , and that the act expected , will prove as well a protection to the noses of juries , as members of the high court of parliament . by this time the courteous reader cannot but see , with how little of truth and reputation he triumphs over us , and vindicates his friends ; since more could scarcely have been said for us , and against them , then the impudent repetition of things so scurrilous , injuditial , and ill-timed : and indeed , the cold reception it finds , with all that read it , might have saved me this labour ; but that i was informed , how much a reply was expected from me . and that i am not ignorant , how natural it is , for men of this mans form of understanding , to conceit their pamphlet unanswerable , because not answered , though the only reason of it , may be its indesert of so much pains ▪ to conclude , however busie some sort of men may be ( and i hear not a little of their projects , to mis-represent me to the king , and persons of eminent employ , that with less hazard to themselves , they may sacrifice me to their injust hate . i do declare my judgment , and that of my abused friends , in things relating to civil government , and by it we would be measured , and in the strength of god resolve to stand . first , that we acknowledge government to be necessary , because of transgressors . secondly , that this government should consist of wholesom laws , to supress vice and immorral practices , as oaths , whoredoms , murders , lyes , thefts , extortion , treachery , prophaneness , defamation , and the like ungodly and immodest actions ; and in the encouragement of men contrarily quallified : these are fundamentals in law and gospel . in short , we heartily own the english government upon its ancient civil bassis . thirdly , that there be many other temporary laws suited to state emergency , in civil matters , as in trade , &c. to which we also account ourselves oblieg'd . fourthly , that we there only dissent , where conscience in point of faith and worship towards god is concerned . fifthly , that we utterly renounce , as an horrible impiety , the promotion of our interest or religion , by the blood of our opposers . sixthly , that if we are deny'd our freedom , in the exercise of our consciences to god ( though otherwise peaceable and industrious ) as it has been so will it still be our constant practice ( however it appears intollerable to flesh and blood , that we should always be the anvil , on which the hammer of every power beats the heavy streaks of its unmerited displeasure ) to sustain all in peace and patience , because vengeance belongs to god , who certainly will repay it . if therefore any that think themselves concerned in this treatise , shall offer to suggest the contrary to these assertions and confessions , i do hereby declare them slanderers of the greatest innocency upon earth ; and give them this publique challenge once for all , that as we will never baulk a fair debate , where every point in controversie may receive a full discovery and decission ; so do we charge such adversaries for the future , if they would ▪ have the reputation of true men , to bring their names and scruples into open view , that so the apprehensions of us may be justified , or our innocency relieved from the heavy pressure of their injust slanders . newgate , the th moneth , . w. penn. an appendix ; wherein the fourth section of s.s. his pamphlet , ( intituled , the fining of that jury , that gave two contrary verdicts justified , to prevent a failer of justice in london ) examined . reader , ut obstruatur os iniqua loquentium . have i undertaken to answer this scurrilous libeller : and in clearing these jurors from his so foul aspertion , shall manifest to the world , not only the horrid falseness of his charge against them ; but lay open the vn●ustness and arbitrariness of those proceedings , which this author seems to have the confidence now in print to vindicate . the wise-man asserts , that he that uttereth a slander is a fool , prov. . . and the psalmist commands , that the lying lips be put to silence , psa . . . and to evidence his folly , let truth ( the mother of justice ) arise , and plead their innocency , against one who endeavours to abuse and traduce , as well the liberties of all the free-men of england , as these respective jurors , whose actions have rendred them worthy citizens of london , and faithful friends to their country . the cause for which the jurors were fined and imprisoned ( by the bench at the old baily ) s. s boldly asserts was for [ their giving in two contrary verdicts . the falshood of which assertion may not only be manifested by many hundreds of citizens , who were eye and ear witnesses of their arbitrary and illegal procedure ( as well towards the other prisoners there , as these jurors ) but also testified by many of this libellers own approved authorities . . let us look back into the third sect of his pamphlet , where he has given frequent tests against the verity of his fourth sect's assertion . the jury having had no evidence of any unlawful act done by w.p. could not bring him in guilty modo & forma &c. yet four times brought in so much as was by witnesses proved against him , viz. that wil. penn was guilty of speaking in grace-church street , as pag. , , , . which ( being all the fact proved , yet far short of what was laid against him in the indictment ) the recorder declared was no verdict in law , redou●●ing the expression or substance thereof , no less then four or f●ve times , as pag. , , , , . and in page . the jur●●s brought in w.p. not guilty in manner and form as he stood 〈◊〉 . other verdict i never heard that the jurors brought in neither doth s.s. in his relation of the tryal pretend i● a●d why he should thus reproach the jurors , groundlesly , and so palpably give the lye to himself , let the juditious judge . . let us examine the retorn of the cause , of the jurors imprisonment , which now lies before the justices of common-pleas at westminster . ( wherein s.s. mayor , j.h. recorder , and their council , with long and tedious consideration had accumilated so much formality and needless circumstances , as swelled up the bulk to at least twelve sheets of paper ) the matter or cause of their imprisonment therein is only this , viz. de eo quod ipsi pred . jur. modo hic eosdem wil. penn & wil. mead de pred . transgr . contemt . assemblac . & tumult . contra legem hujus regni angliae , et contra plenam & manifestam . evidentiam , et contra directionem curiae in materia legis hic de & super premissis eisdem jur. versus prefact . w.p. & w.m. in cur. hic aperte dat . & declarat . de praemissis eis impoit . in indict . pred . acquietaverunt in contemt . dicti dom. regis nunc legumque suorum &c. the substance of which is , that the aforesaid jurors did acquit the said william penn and william mead from the trespass , contempt , and unlawful assembly , and tumult against the law of this kingdom of england , and against full and manifest evidence , and against the direction of the court in matters of law openly given and declared in court against the said w.p. and w.m. in contempt of the lord the king , and his laws &c. by which it's plainly manifest and evident that these jurors were never guilty of giving two contrary verdicts , or fined and imprisoned by the bench for any such fact , as s.s. hath falsly and scandalously suggested . and truly if s s. has been an eye and ear witness of all that passed in this affair ( as he affirms pa. ) we may without breach of charity , charge him with having a very treacherous memory , which is an ill companion for a lyar. but next we come to enter upon the matter promised , and to examine whether or no he has justifi●d the fining of that jury , by reason law and authority or any of them in order to which let us recite his words ( he saith . ) page . in regard that this is a case , that very much concerns the king and kingdom , and is now under the consideration of all the judges , i shall only make four remarks upon this case , and leave the determination of the same to the honourable sages of our law. answer , surely our author had but a small stock of courage , that it should fail him in writing half a dozen lines , what ? ( in uno flat● ) to justifie the fining of a jury , and to leave it again to the determinations of the sages of the law. he might have left it at first to their determination , and have spared his pains , of appearing in print , and yet have been thought never the unwiser man for his silence . s.s. his first remark . as nature ( says he ) abhors a vacuum in the universe , so it is the honour of our law , that will not suffer a failer of justice , according to that maxime , ne curia regis desiceret in justitia exhibenda . therefore it is that although our law appoints all tryals to be by juries , yet in six cases cited by my lord cook , . p. inst . sect . fol. . the tryal is by certificate , as in case a person be in scotland , in prison , and at burdeaux , &c. answ . our author who quotes cook , might also have remembred thi● maxime used by him , inst . . vbi non est lex ibi non est transgressio , where there is no law there is no transgression : as for the matter of tryals by certificate , it is as forreign to the matters in debate as burdeaux or scotland is distant from westminster-hall . neither does s s in any wise , by his discourse , apply it to that purpose , but barely proceeds . in like manner petty-jurors , that have given their verdict contrary to their evidence , have been fined by the justices , in cases where the law hath provided no ot●●r punishment , as by attaint &c. answ . first , observe the strangeness of s.s. his consequence . because the law provides , th●● for●eign matters a●●ed ( in partibus , transmarinis ) shall be evidenced or tryed by certificate from those parts : therefore facts done or acted at home , in publique courts of justice , shall not be determined in ordinary courts o● law ( per legale judicium parium ) but by the arbitrary judgment of the bench or court. secondly , observe how various this l●tter matter is to s.s. his text , viz juries fined for giving two contrary verdicts justified ; changed into juries fined for giving in a verdict contrary to evidence . and since the latter is the text to his subsequent discourse , let us try and examine his doctrine . our author to prove , that justices have fined jurors , for bringing in verdicts contrary to evidence , gives us his authorities thus . vide whart●ns case , yelverton fol. . noy reports the same fol. . and judge popham said , there were divers presedents to that pupose , and cites divers , one by justices in eire . watts vers . braines , in an appeal to b.r. crook l. . . vide leonard l. . . pl. . and l. . . pl. . southwels case in the exchequor . moor . lemons case in the court of wards . cook l. . . prices case in the star-chamber . answ . that these cases are material to our authors purpose ( more then to amuse the reader with cotations ) i cannot find , neither doth s.s. set forth the substance , whereby this age might understand their drift and intent . but cook , who he quotes in his justification , was clearly of another opinion to what s.s. would suggest ; for in the case he cites reports . that lover of his country , and england's liberties , speaking of jurors freedom by law to give their verdicts , declares , that the law will not suppose any indifferent , when he is sworn to serve the king &c. to which agree● says he , the books in ass . . assise p. . e. . h. . . e. . . h. . . f.n.b. . a — and the law presumes that every juror will be indifferent when he is sworn ; nor will the law admit proof against this presumption . but s.s. as conscious of the nullity , of those before recited authorities , to justifie his cause , gives us one , as he supposes , to purpose , viz. wagstaffs case trin. . c. . in b.r. this ( says he ) agrees with our present case in all points . and concludes with this , mich. . car. . in banco regis : leech and five other , being of the jury , at justice hall in the old-baily , the last sessions , refused to find certain quakers guilty , according to their evidence , and upon that they were bound to appear in the kings bench the first day of the next tearm ; they appeared accordingly , and the court directed an information against them , and upon that they were fined . upon which s.s. concludes the fining of jurors , that find contrary to their evidence is no innovaton , but alwayes practized , and that by as learned judges , as ever england bred. we shall not much insist upon the imparity of this last case in its points , to that in hand , being of little further use then to manifest the ignorance and falsity of our author , so only say ▪ this to it , that ( ) see his ignorance , that appears by his own showing . leech's iury , says he , were fined upon an information brought against them in the kings-bench ; which much varies from the case of edw. bushel &c. in that they were arbitrarily fined by the bench at the old-baily , without information or matter of record , or being brought to answer by any prec●ss of law , expresly against the stat. . e. . cap. . ( . ) see the impudent falsity of this libeller ; it s acknowledged that leech , with five other jury-men , of whom were anthony selby , oylman , in pudding lane ; edward briscoe , in lothbury ; — brown , a dyer , in thames-street , london &c. persons of good reputation , and well known in this city , were ( as s.s. alledges ) bound to appear in the king-bench , by r. hyde then chief iustice , who after many foul reproaches and daring menaces to those citizens of london , ( as is too frequent a practise in that court ) commanded an information to be exhibited against them in the crown office , for acquitting som● quakers , who were given them in charge at the old-baily , to which-they all willingly appeared ; but that they were sized thereon ( as asserted by s.s. ) is a most horrid vntruth ; for hyde never afterwards in his life time , was so hardy to prosecute the same to trial ; nor had j.k. his successor so much courage to compleat his predecessors — enter●rize , but prudently surceas'd the su●t : so this case cited by s. s is but like the rest of his authorities , with which he would patch up and salve his patrons illegal and arbitrary procedures . but that we may come more closly to the point in hand , first , we absolutely deny s.s. his conclusion , and do affirm , that as well the fining and imprisoning , as otherwise punishing a iury of twelve men ( i● pannelled to try &c. betwixt the king and a prison●r ) for giving a verdict according to their conscience , though ( in the sence of the bench and iustices in eier ) contrary to evidence , is an innovation , and the practise of it against reason , the law of england , and the liberties of its freeborn people . this point is so considerable , that i may say and affirm , that the fairest flower , that now grows in the garden of the english-mans liberties , is a fair tryal by his peers , or twelve of his neighbours , which so much artifice and violence is used , by the wild b●res of our age , to pluck up by the roots . in order to its defence and security , let us first remove that grand ob●ection of our adversary , which he makes a foundation for his a●ter superstructure of violence and oppression ; a●d that is from the th chapt●r of the great chapter , on these words , or by the law of the land , intimating therefrom , that by , ( or by the law of the land ) is meant ●ome other judges , judicatu●e , or jurisdiction , then judgment of peers , as in the third page of his pamphlet . the judgment of ●oke , instit ) an undeniable author , and authority , may serv . o ●ear the p●●nt . who writes thu● upon his exposition on ( per 〈◊〉 ) first , for the true se●ce and expo●ition of these words ( says h● ) see the statute of e. . cap. where the words , by the law of the land , are rendred , without due prosess of law. for there it is said , tho●gh it be contained in the great charter , that 〈◊〉 man be taken , imprisoned , or put out of h●s free-hold without 〈◊〉 of law , that is , by indictment , or presentment of good and lawfull men , where such deeds be done in due manner , or b● writ original of the common-law . secondly , without being brought in to answer , but by due process of the common-law . thirdly , no man be put to answer without presentment before justices , or thing of record , or by due process , or by writ original , according to the old law of the land ▪ by which is most apparent to every rea●onable understanding , that by the words ( or by the law of the land ) is not meant other jurisdi●tion , judges or judicature ▪ ( wherein , or whereby any man is to be tryed ) as s.s. would ignorantly have it ; but that the proceedings against a free-man of england , in order to the judgment of his peers , or twelve neighbours , shall be according to the laws of the land , as by presentment , indictment &c. statute e. cap. . and coke declares , that the said th chapter was but declaratory of the old law of the land , which knew no other judgments , or jurisdictions for its free inhabitants , but legale juditium parium suorum ; neither have the free-men of england heard of any such , except by those arbitrary innovators , who have felt the smart of their sore oppressions , by the hand of justice , & have received condign punishment , as due rewards for their introducing of new jurisdictions , as the reader may see at large , cook instit . fol. . cook inst . fol. . and horns mirror of justice , cap. . sect . . and this seasonable caveat and caution cook ▪ has left as a legacy to such time-servers , qui corum vestigjis insistunt , corum exitus perhorrescant . this having shaken his sandy foundation , by the stablished fundamental laws , and the responsis prudentium , upon the ancient statutes of england . let us try the strength of his babel-superstructure by the same infallable rules and measures . says s.s. [ the fining of jurors has been alwayes practized . ] as pag. . answ . truly his prescription for time is unquestionable , if he but prove by authority , what he barely affirms , but this i fear he will fall short in : does he bring his examples usages or customs ( so to fine jurors ) from the times or laws of alfred , athelston , edmundus , edgar , canutus , edward the confessor , william the first , henry the first , noble and famous princes of this nation , ( many of whose laws are yet in force , ) from our charter of liberties , ancient statutes of this realm ? nothing less . but should i grant that he had brought a presedent of later standing to countenance the late illegal procedure ( as by wagstaffs case it appears he has ) will it not deservedly fall under the censure of a tortious vsage ( having neither the statute , law of the land , nor reason , the ground of the law to warrant or justifie it ) which andrew horn , a writer of the law , in the reign of e. . accounts no more of , then those of thieves , whose vsages are to rob and steal , mirror justice cap. . sect . . and that we may as aptly suit a case to our libellers , as he would have that of wagstaffs to answer us , take a resolve of a court not inferior to the consideratum est of the k — bench , whose reason and authority was never subjected to the opinion of three or four interested persons , as s.s. by his bold pamphlet would have it : i mean the parliament of the commons of england , who upon justice k — fining of wagstaffs iury resolved , that he had used an arbitrary and illegal power , which was of dangerous consequence to the lives and liberties of the people of england , and tended to the introducing of an arbitray government . and that the presedents and practice of fining and imprisoning juries for verdicts , is illegal . hence we may observe , that ( illo die ) englands fountain of justice was clear and wholesom , although the rivolets or lesser streams might be troubled and corrupted . therefore it 's worthy our observation what cook , that master of reason ( directing himself to the sobordinate courts or seats of justice said , quod fatius est petere fontes , quam sectare rivulos . ( adding ) that they should assuredly prosper and flourish in the distribution of justice , if they derived all their power and strength from their proper roots : advising them , not to fear to do right to all , and to deliver their opinions justly according to the laws . this wholsom advice , had it been but timely received by j.k. might have prevented that presedent of oppression , quoted by our author , which rash and unadvised sentence of his the parliament took occasion so to rebuke , though s. s &c. to commend and immitate . the auguments and reasons against arbitrary fining of iurors respect a two fold interest , viz. the freedom of jurors in particular , and the freedom of the people of england in general , who are equally hurt and wounded by the consequence of such tortious proceedings . . first , it s unreasonable severity , that a iuror should be enfor●ed to appear ( nolens aut volens ) at assizes or sessions of peace , and there to be sworn . well and truly to try , and true deliverance make , between &c. according to evidence ; and when he has conscientiously performed his duty , ( for which he receives no reward ) to be fined at the will of a mercenary iustice . . secondly , if a court has power arbitrarily to fine a jury , that give not in a verdict according to their sence of this or that fact in issue , it must be because the bench is presumed to have a fuller or ▪ nearer understanding of the matter in issue , then the jurors can , which is clearly otherwise in the sence of the law ; and appears in that the iurors summons is for persons ( per quos rei veritas melius scire poterit ) by whom the truth of the matter may be better known . . thirdly , if the integrity and honesty of persons judging are to be esteemed of weight , to evidence the equallity of the judgement given ; then , surely twelve honest men of the neighbourhood , where the offence ( if any ) was committed , are the most proper judges ; since that twelve men may neither be so easily corrupted as one single person , nor their judgment of such fact ( twelve men agreeing in one ) so likely to be erroneous , as the single apprehension of one . . fourthly , if satisfaction is to be made to a party grieved , how can it be done more fully and equally then at the choice of the person offended . the people or neighbourhood , who are pretended to be wronged or injured , are called to be judges , to redress their own grievances ; and surely that satisfaction they measure out to themselves shall be judged correspondent to their sustained damages . . fifthly , if our predecessors had thought that the arbitrary determination of a bench of iustice , had been as equal a iudgment , as that of our peers ; surely in vain did they exspend so much blood for the reprizing the latter , and exterpating the former , cook inst . prefact . . sixthly , if a bench , or single justice , recorder , bailiff &c. shall have power to fine and imprison a jury of twelve men , until they gratifie their wills and pleasures in their verdicts , which of our lives and liberties can be secured against the lusts of such petty prerogatives , when the courts discretion , not the law of england ( our birthright ) shall be the standard to measure out every mans desert and portion . vide cook inst . fol. . we might in this sort much more enlarge to evince of how evil consequence these arbitrary practices are , and will be to the english constitution of government . but i have here used the more of brevity , in as much as this case needs no greater , or further argument to enforce it into any mans understanding , then his being an english-man , and so born free , and not a slave . but altogether to omit our stablished and fundamental laws would be as blame worthy , as tediously to enlarge upon them . therefore i shall from them , and some maximes of the law of england further prove the unreasonableness and unjustness of such arbitrary proceedings upon and against juries . . first , such proceedings are absolutely against the great charter of liberties , as cap. . no free-man to have amercements assessed upon him , but by good and honest men of the vicinage . as also cap. . no freeman to be condemned without the lawful judgment of his peers . which two chapters by reason and arguments ( in that discourse of liberty asserted at the tryal of wil. penn and wil. mead ) are by that author expounded , and applied to this present case , as the reader may find at large , pag. , , and . of that treatise . . secondly , such arbitrary judgements are against the statute of e. . cap. . which saith , that justices , sheriffs , mayors , and other ministers , which under us have the laws of our land to guide , shall allow the said charters to be pleaded before them in all their points . this is a clause ( says cook ) worthy to be written in letters 〈◊〉 gold , that the laws are to be the judges guides , and therefore not the judges to guide the law by their arbitrary glosses , which never yet misguided any , that truly followed them . ● cook inst . now to fine and imprison jurors for their verdicts , which by the laws of england they are to give freely , is waving the rules of law , and embracing their own discretion for a guide in giving of judgments . notwithstanding it 's expresly enacted , that if any judgement be given contrary to the point of the great charter ( which was declaratory of the common law ) by the justices , or other the kings ministers , it should be vndone , and holden for nought . thirdly , by the statute of westminst . . anno e. . it 's thus enacted , rex vult & precipit quod justitia singulis tam — quam — nulla habita personarum ratione , that justice shall be done to all without respect of persons . this ( says cook ) is an antient maxime of the ccmmon law , repeated and affirmed amongst the law , of king edgar . and fleta ( says that author ) reciteth this fundamental law in few words , quod communis justitia singulis pariter exhibeatur ; that common justice be afforded to all . if jurors then be freemen of england , i know not wherefore they should be denied that common right ( in case they offend the law ) of trial by their peers ; and have a judgment passed upon them against this common and fundamental law , which is commanded by the express words of the statute , inviolabiliter observanri , be to inviolably observed ; that peace may be kept in this land. cook inst . . . fourthly , cook in his d inst . fol. . affirms that , ratio legis est anima legis , the reason of the law is the soul of the law ; and therefore says he , quaecunque intra rationem legis inveniuntur , intra ipsam legem judicantur , whatsoever shall be found to be within the reason of the law shall be adjudged to be within the law. had the law of england presumed , that a mayor , justice , bailiff , sheriff &c. had been more knowing , and so more proper per judges , who might give a better and more equal determination ( of such facts , which for decision came before them ) then a jury of twelve men could , or would do : surely the law would then have left all controversies to their sole arbitrary determination ; and never have required and commanded tryals by jurors , which are not only chargeable to the iury-men ( free-holders of this nation ) by reason of their attendance and expence at assizes and sessions , but also dangerous , and hazardous to perform , and do their duty there . but according to that maxime , lex intendit vicinum vicini facta scire , the law presumes that each man best knows his neighbours actions : therefore the most proper judge , whether to condemn his neighbour as guilty , or to acquit him as innocent . so we must either lose our reason , or conclude it illegal and irrational , that justices whom the law ( quo ad hoc ) concludes ignorant , should judge or condemn jurors ( for ignorance ) whom the law ( quo ad hoc ) concludes more knowing then themselves . . fifthly , the fifth reason and argument to evince the illegality of such arbitrary proceedings , may be drawn from that maxime of law , more then once used by the learned cook , viz. lex est tutissima cassis , the law is the surest sactuary that a man can take , and the strongest fortress to protect the weakest : yea ( saith that author ) sub clipeo legis nemo decip●tur , it fails none that put their trust in it . we have no reason to believe , that that author put an encomium upon the laws of england ( we mean the fundamental laws , the charters of liberties , of which he then treated ) beyond their real worth and value : but must rather conclude , that such arbitrary proccedings , which leave the freemen of england void of defence , and remediless of relief , are not according to the rules and m●xims of law , but clearly otherwise . and th●t the fining and imprisoning of jurors are such ; may further app●ar in these particulars . first , in that the jurors are condemned without a tryal , whether they have done their duty or not ; that is , whether they have found with or against their evidence &c. . secondly , in that the iudgement against them ( be it vitious or erroneous , either in respect of the irregularity of the proceedings or nullity of the fact charged upon them ) cannot be examin'd or revers'd by writ of error . . thirdly , in that no such superiour court can receive or hear their appeal , as upon indictments , and all other proceedings by due course of law they might . manifesting that such arbitrary proceedings against jurors are far more severe and hard , then any convictions of traitors , thieves , and murderers , ( who are apprehended ( flagranti delicto ) and tryed by due course of law. and since they are so unreasonable that they allow not a iury of twelve ( boni & legales homines ) good and lawfull men , neither liberty of defence before iudgment , nor an after tryal or examination of the fact for which they were condemned , we must necessarily conclude them illegal and irrational , so null and void , according to that known maxime , cessante ratione legis cessat ipsa lex : and leave them to that just censure of the parliament of the commons of england , that they were innovations in the tryals of men for their lives and liberties . s.s. his d , d , and th remarks examined . ( saith s.s. ) if it be objected , that in the present case , being an indictment for a trespass , an attaint doth lie , and therefore ought to be punished in attaint . which he thus himself answers , brook , title attaint . saith , et sic admittitur , quod si le roy fuit merement . party , attaint negist . where the king is sole party attaint doth not lie : in our present case , the king is sole party , and therefore by the old law no attaint doth lie . in the answering of his own objection the author has taken up no less then four or ●●ve pages of his discourse ; and the whole of his second , third , and fourth remarks , in quoting nine or ten book-cases and statutes , to prove his assertion , that no attaint lies where the king is party ; ending his libel thus — from these four remarks i conclude nothing , but leave the determination of this important affair to the honorable sages of our law ; and pray , that in this , and in all other businesses of concernment , that god ( the great iudge of heaven and earth ) would guide and direct them . answ . st the righteous god ( whom this libeller imprecates ) has declared . that the prayers of the wicked are an abomination to him , prov. . . and . . d the frivolousness and impertinentness of this ribaldry to the controversie in hand , will appear to the meanest capacity , that will take the pains to compare it , to the libellers own text , viz. the fining of that jury that gave two contrary verdicts justified . d the king being party , so no attaint lies ( the matter of these three last remarks ) is so far from being an objection , to be offered by the friends of those oppressed iurors , that they not only grant to him , that no attaint lies against such iurors , but that it is horrid injustice and oppression to punish them by that , or any other way ; which we shall clear briefly in these particulars . . first , it might suffice any rational man , that iurors , betwixt the king and prisoners , ought not thus ( by arbitrary fines , or other means ) to have punishment inflicted upon them , in as much as the ancient common law of england is so far from directing of pai●es , that it declares , that all restraints of jurors are abusions of the law : which we have from andrew horn , a learned writer of the law in the time of ed. . who amongst the great abuses of the common law ( for some of which king alfred executed several of his corrupt judges ) sets down this , viz. it is abuse to compel jurors to say that which they know not , by distress of fine and imprisonment , after their verdict . and that this is the statute law to this day may appear . d , in that the grand councels of england in parliament have no less then twenty several times , given their judgments about the false or vitious verdicts of jurors ; enacting twenty one statutes for the correcting and punishing of such defaults . and doubtless , ( they having been so often near the point ) had the law of england , and right and liberty of its people , admitted of such punishments , as the adversaries of both at this day put in practice , they would have let us understood it , and not suffer the law so many ages to be ( vagum & incognitum ) but those councels making no such breach upon our fundamental laws , rights , and liberties ; and this our present parliament , by their resolves , confirming the same , we may and must aver the contrary procedures , innovations , so illegal and opressive . but to conclude . d lex semper intendit quod convenit rationi , the law ( says cook ) alwayes intends that which is agreeable to reason . and reason will with ease reconcile ; wherefore the law has not prescribed nor directed a punishment for jurors , who give a verdict according to their consciences , though contrary to the sence of a court or bench of iustices in causes where the king is party , as for fellony , trespass , &c. viz. as our english government is now stablished ( potestas regia est facere justitiam ) it's regal power to do iustice . and therefore all indictments are prosecuted in the name of the king , although the fellony , trespass &c. was committed upon the people , who really received the tort and wrong ; yet because the king has undertaken , for the safety , defence , and protection of his subjects , the trespass &c. is said to be done to him : yet experience and reason tells us , that the people of england are not therefore the less interested in , nor will be the less careful of the security of their persons and estates , but do and will use their uttermost endeavour to defend the first from violence , preserve the second from ruin. so st the ( boni & legales homines ) or jurors impannelled to do iustice upon such fellons &c. being free-born english-men , and as neerly interested and concerned in the punishment of publick offendors , as any , who are said to prosecute . and dly , the law presuming they would be no more treacherous to their own peace and safety , then the king faithful to preserve them , thought good to lay no other obligation or engagement upon jurors in such cases , but the consideration of their own weal , peace , and safety ; which many hundred years , has by experience been found sufficient , till justices on the benches and seats of judicature turned informers and prosecutors , and instead of not knowing persons in judgment , appeared ( contrary to their oaths ) as counsel for the king , and prosecutors and executioners upon the prisoners . this i shall take the liberty to remark upon s.s. the writer of that scandalous libel , that however he would recommend himself to the king and country , as a man of reputation and truth , or at least to the deserving , the estimation of learning and ingenuity ; this work of his has given them an opertunity to take other measures of his deserts , who has in this one section of his libel , not only manifested meer falshood in his charge , but also ignorance in his proofs . first , his falshood appears , in calumniating the jurors with meer untruths , and that by his own shewing . secondly , his ignorance , in that he has not in the least colourably justified his assertions , or those practices of his patrons ( whom he appears for ) against the jurors . yea , i may say that his folly has so accompanied his knavery , that he needs no other character then his own work in print . and whether he has reason to assume that title he takes to himself in the front of his piece , viz. to be a friend to justice and courts of justice . i submit to those of the long-robe , he allarums to look to themselves , and to the juditious reader , that will weigh his discouse ; for my own part , i am not in the least jealous that he is any such person : but if this author would favour us with the knowledge of his name , then justice and its courts might express their gratitude , for his seasonable vindication of them ; and the mayor , recorder's &c. candor and integrity in their juditial proceedings , at the old-baily , against the jury and prisoners . less then this i could not say , by reason of those false aspertions that this libeller has cast upon my friends the jurors ; to enlarge i shall forbear , inasmuch as the author has closed his discourse with pretence to leave the important affair to the judges determination , whose judgments i desire may , and i hope will be measured by the streight metwand of the fundamental laws of england , and not by the crooked line of discretion , for say , the wisest of men , and noblest of princes , qui derelinqunt legem , laudant improbos ; at qui observant legem , miscent praelia cum illis . i had no other end in this short discouse , but to vindicate truth and justice from falshood and violence ; so my earnest zeal is , that the first may ever stand over the heads of their opposers and oppressors . newgate prison in london , the th moneth , . t. rudyard . postscript . to answer the libellers challenge , and defend the author of the tryal &c. in reference to s.s.s. it may not be impertinently observ'd , that if he will please to enquire of one john barnes of hornsey , whether the late mayor was not a commissioner for setling the late powers militia , and so brisk and sharp a reflecter upon those that went under the notion of cavaliers , above the rest of the committee , as to incur the rebuke of his brother-commissioners ; we hear that he may receive very ample satisfaction , if it may be any to be found in a mistake of what he so confidently ventur'd to assert . nor is it less worthy of notice , that upon enquiry made of dr whitchcock , he could not but acknowledge , that s. sterling was so far from deserting the university , for want of conformity to the scotish covenant , that it never was tender'd to any of that colledge . which is not remarkt out of prejudice to the mayor , but love to the truth , and a desire to manifest his libellous apollogist , who rather then his defensive flatteries should fail his diana , or his injust slanders miss us , resolves to break through all the bonds of truth , law , and religion . not that we would render it so criminal to serve the nation under both govenments , as ( having served both ) to persecute either . but we will end the whole with this solemn declaro ' , and protest , first , that we are free-born english-men , and esteem our selves undoubted heirs of our countries liberties , not to be dis-inherited upon any religious difference , it being no clause or proviso in our first civil constitution , or fore-fathers last will and testament . secondly , that we have been deprived of our dear liberty and property , and that meerly for worshipping the god that made us ; against all law , reason , and scripture ( particularly at the old-bailey . ) thirdly , that notwithstanding such daily provocations , we do as heartily forgive , as we are maliciously persecuted ; ( bearing no ill-will to the persons , of any ) the title and tenure of our holy gospel being glory to god on high , on earth peace , and good-will towards all men . and we could desire of god ( if it might please him ) to open their eyes , and affect their hearts with a right sence of things , that they might understand how much more it would be their true interest to rebuke vice , then punish opinion , and that in themselves first : so would oppression cease , the spring-tides of intemperance fall ; & mercy , truth , justice and peace flow over all the banks of animosity , self-interest revenge ; to the once more refreshing of our weary , dry and parched country , with the pleasant streams of thorow reformation . from newgate prison in london , the first moneth , . w. penn. the end . courteous reader , thou art desired to place the numerous errors of this discourse to the account of difficulty in printing any thing that comes not out with an imprimatur in the front of it : but as we can't fly to the hills , to hide us ; so will it be esteem'd civility in thee to excuse the authors from the mistakes ; be they points , letters , syllables , or whole words . a short collection follows . page line errors corrected gilt guilt   srcipta scripta   become becomes imply imploy last doubted thought last christ god ginious genius conformed conform maind man'd goaled goalers mead mead's they we   or for so to   commanded they commanded it was the they were out-stript out , stript   friend friends impudent imprudent the their last that that it this thus   cient ancient   it appears he pretends auguments arguments   proceedings proceedings as appears th●s . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e page . page . page . page . page . page . page . notes for div a -e pas. . ja. f. , & . e. . . e. . . e. . . dec. . lib. asserted , pag. , . cook institu . epilogue . wagstaffs case . ca ▪ . c● . . inst . . institut . . stat. . e. . cap. . cook instit . prefact . co ▪ inst . . lib. . cap. . cook inst . . inst . and . co. inst . . votes par. ang. . dec. . title abusions of the common law ; cap. . sect . . vide poltons statutes , title attaint . inst . sect . co. in. . stat. e. . vide cook inst . , . co. just . certain questions propounded to the assembly, to answer by the scriptures whether corporall punishments may be inflicted upon such as hold errours in religion. / by s.r. richardson, samuel, fl. - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing r a thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) certain questions propounded to the assembly, to answer by the scriptures whether corporall punishments may be inflicted upon such as hold errours in religion. / by s.r. richardson, samuel, fl. - . [ ] p. [s.n.], london : printed anno dom. . s.r. = samuel richardson. signatures: a. annotation on thomason copy: "dec: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng freedom of religion -- great britain -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no certain questions propounded to the assembly, to answer by the scriptures: whether corporall punishments may be inflicted upon such as hold richardson, samuel b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion certain questions propounded to the assembly , to answer by the scriptures : whether corporall punishments may be inflicted upon such as hold errours in religion . . that no man might buy or sell , save he that had the marke , or the name of the beast , or the number of his name , rev. . . see rev. . , , . , ye are bought with a price ; be not the servants of men , cor. . . . ye suffer fooles gladly , cor. . . and yet i may not be suffered . by s. r. london , printed anno dom. . to the impartiall reader . if in this life only we had hope in christ , we are of all men most miserable : for almost every man thinkes himself most happy , that can doe us the most mischiefe : so that scarce any place can hardly be found in which we can be let alone : notwithstanding , we eat our own bread , and wear our own cloathing : ( to say no more ) live quietly , & do no man wrong . we are dayly unjustly accused , and lyable to be stripped of outward comforts ; because we will not believe and practise that which is in our understandings a lye . and is it not strange , that some dare affirme that to be truth , and would have others compelled to believe it : notwithstanding , they cannot read it unto us out of the holy scriptures , neither can they prove themselves to be our spiritual masters . if they can , we are content to be their spiritual servants , and believe , and practice , what and how much of any religion they please to appoint . but untill they can prove to us , to have such power , it will be to no purpose for thē to appoint us what to believe , &c. & that that which is truth , may more clearly appear . i desire they would give a plain and full answer ( to these questions i have propounded ) according to the scriptures ; that so if we be mistaken , we trust we shall be glad to see it , and embrace it , &c. certaine questions propounded to the synod . quest . . vvhether corporall punishments can open blind eyes , and give light to dark understandings ? whether carnall punishments can produce any more then a carnall repentance and obedience ? whether the destroying of mens bodies for errors , be not a means to prevent their conversion ; seeing some are not called untill the eleventh houre : and if they should bee cut off for their errors the seventh houre . how should they have come in ? mat. . whether those who would force other mens consciences , be willing to have their own forced ? whether it be wisdome and safe to make such sole judges in matte●s of religion , who are not infallible , but as liable to erre as others ? if a a father , or magistrate have not power to force a virgin to marry one shee cannot love ; whether they have power to force one where they cannot believe , against the light and checks of their own consciences ? whether the scripture makes the magistrate judge of our faith ? if the magistrate may determine what is truth ; whether we must not beleeve , and live by the magistrotes faith , and change our religion at their pleasures ? and if nothing must bee preached , nor no bookes of religion printed , nor be allowed to passe , unlesse certain men may please to approve , and give their allowance thereto , under their hands ; whether such do not by this practice , tell god , that unlesse hee will reveale his truth fitst to them , they will not suffer it to be published , & so not known to be ( even with him ) notwithstanding the magistrate may and ought to hinder the printing and publishing of that which shall be against the safety and welfare of the state . but we must distinguish between matters civill and religious : wee question their power in the latter . also , whether the licencer setting his hand to the book to licence it , ( he being a priest by his ordination and from the pope ) be not the mark of the beast , spoken of revel. . ? and whether all such as have gone to them to licence the truth ought not to repent of it , and do so no more ? also whether these men be fit to be licencers of the truth , who when the truth hath been tendered them to be licensed , they have confessed the truth of it , as they have been free to licence it ; but refused , because they durst not ? and whether it can be made appeare , that god hath revealed his truth first to these ministers of england , and so the first spreaders of it ? instance , who opposed the prelats , the ministers , or the people ; first ? and so of the rest . whether it be not the command of christ , that the tares ( those that walk in lies ) and the wheat ( those that walk in the truth ) should be let alone ; and the blind ( led in a false religion ) which are offended at the declaring of the truth , should be let alone ? mat. . . . mat. . whether hee was not reproved , that would have fire from heaven to devoure those that reject christ , luke . , . whether the servants of the lord are not forbidden to strive , but to be gentle towards all ? tim. . . whether the saints weapons against errors , be carnall or no ? cor. . . whether it was not christs command , that his disciples when they were persecuted , they should pray ; and if cursed , blesse ? whether the scriptures declare , that the saints should persecute others ; and whether the gentle lambs of christ can serve the wolves so , seeing hee sent his as sheep among wolves , and not as wolves among sheep , to kill and imprison , matth. . . whether christ hath said , he will have an unwilling people compelled to serve him ? whether ever god did plant his church by violence and blood-shed ? whether tares may not become wheat , and the blind see , and those that now oppose and resist christ , afterwards receive him : and he that is now in the divels snare , may get out , and come to repentance : and such as are idolaters , as the corinthians were , may become true worshippers , as they that are strangers may become gods people ? whether to convert an heretick , and to cast out unclean spirits , be done any other way then by the finger of god , by the mighty power of the spirit in the word ? whether he that is not conformable to christ , may not at the same time bee a good subject to the state , and as profitable to it as any ? whether men that differ in religion , may not be tollerated , seeing abraham abode among the canaanites along time ; yet contrary to them in religion , genes . . . & . . and he sojourned in gezer , and king abimel●ch gave him leave to abide in his land , gen. . . . . and isaac dwelt in the same land , yet contrary in religion gen. . the people of israel were about . yeares in egypt , and afterwards in babylon , all which time they differed in religion from the state , exod. . chron. . christ and his disciples differed from the common religion of the state , acts . . and when the enemies of the truth raised up any tumults , the wisdom of the magistrate most wisely appeased them , acts . . & . . wether it be not better for us , that a patent were granted to monopolize all the corne and cloath , and to have it measured out unto us at their price and pleasure , which yet were intollerable ; as for some men to appoint and measure out unto us what and how much we shall beleeve and practice in matters of religion . . whether there be not the same reason that they should bee appointed by us what they shall believe and practice in religion , as for them to doe so to us , seeing we can give as good grounds for what wee beleeve and practice ( as they can doe for what they would have ) if not better . whether men heretofore have not in zeale for religion , persecuted the son of god , in stead of the son of perdition ? whether it is not a burden great enough for the magistrate to govern and judge in civill causes , to preserve the subjects rights , peace and safety ? if the magistrate must judge and punish in matters of religion , the magistrate must ever be troubled with such persons and such causes : & if after his conscience be convinced , he had no such power , or see that it was truth hee punished ; what horrors of conscience is he like to possesse ? whether hee is fit to appoint punishments , that is not fit to judge ? if the magistrate must punish errors in religion , whether it doth not impose a necessity that the magistrate is to have a certainty of knowledge in all intricate cases ? and whether god calls such to that place , whom he hath not furnished with abilities for that place ? and if a magistrate bee in darknesse , and spiritually blind , and dead ; bee fit to judge of light , of truth and error ? and whether such be fit for the place of the magistracy ? then whether it be not a scruple to a tender conscience to submit to such in civill causes , because not appointed to that place by god ? whereas if the magistrates power be onely civill , the doubt is resolved , because such as may be fit for magistrates , and men ought in conscience in civil things to submit unto them . whether there bee any scripture that saith , that any mans conscience is to be constrained , and whether the magistrate can reach mens consciences ; and whether he be fit to make a law to conscience , who cannot know when conscience keeps it , and that cannot reward conscience for keeping it , nor punish the conscience for the breaking of it ? whether it be not in vain for us to have bibles in english , if against our souls perswasions from the scriptures we must beleeve as the church beleeves ? whether the magistrate be not wronged , to give him the title of civill magistrate onely , if his power be spirituall ? whether lawes made meerly concerning spirituall things , be not spirituall also ? whether if no civill law be broken , the civil peace be hurt or no ? whether in compulsion for conscience , not onely the guilty , but the innocent suffer also ? as if the husband be an heretick , his sufferings may cause the innocent wife and children shall suffer as deeply also . whether such as are spiritually dead , be capable to be spiritually infected ? whether god will accept of a painted sepulcher , a shadow , a meere complement of obedience , when the heart is dead and rotten , and hates god , and all that is good ? god hath no need of hypocrites ; much lesse of forced ones : god will have those to worship him as can worship him in spirit and truth , john . whether the scriptures appoint any other punishment to be inflicted upon heretickes , then rejection and excommunication ? tit. . . whether freedome of conscience would not joyn all sorts of persons to the magistrate , because each shared in the benefit ? whether those states ( as the low-countries , ) who grant such liberty , do not live quietly , and flourish in great prosperity ? whether persecution for conscience doe not harden men in their way , and make them cry out of oppression and tyranny ? whether some corporall punishments would not make thousands in england face about to popery , as it did in queen maries time . whether lawes made concerning religion , have not alwayes catched the most holy men ; witnesse daniel and the three children : the rest will be of what religion you will . whether the saints crave the help of the powers of this world to bring christ to them , or feare their powers to keep him from them ? if no religion is to be practised , but that which the common-wealth shall approve on : what if they will approve of no religion ? shal men have no religion at all ? whether the saints ought not to continue their assemblies of their worship of god , without , or against the consent of the magistrates ; they being commanded to do so , mal. . , , . heb. . . by an angel from god , acts . . it was the apostles practice ( who were not rebellious nor seditious ) act. . , , , . and . , . whether vniformity in religion in the state , do not oppresse millions of soules , and impoverish the saints bodies . whether gods people have not disputed and taught a religion new and worship , contrary to the state they lived in , and spread it in travelling and open places ; as appears act. . . . and . . yet no origancy and impetuousnesse . yea , contrary to publike authority in the nations vniformity , in false worship , dan. . the three children ; so the apostle , act. , . the saints have opēly witnessed , that in matters spirituall , jesus was king , act. . and for this christ suffered ; as appeares by his accusation , iohn . . jesus of nazareth king of the jews , psal. . . act. . . gods people have seemed the disturbers of the civill state , upon the apostles preaching , there followed uprores , and tumults , and uprores , at iconium , at ephesus , at ierusalem , act. . . act. . , , act. , , . whether jesus christ , appointed any materiall prisons for blasphemers of him ? whether notwithstanding the confidence of the truth they have , to which they would force others , whether the bishops , their fathers , &c. have not been as deeply mistaken ; for now they , are found to be antichristian . whether it be not a natural law for every man that liveth , to worship that wch he thinketh is god , & as he thinketh he ought to worship ; and to force otherwise , will be concluded an oppression of those persons so forced . whether it be best for us to put out our eyes , and see by the eyes of others who are as dim-sighted ? in my judgment , your judgment is a lye : will ye compell me to believe a lye ? compell ye a man to be present at a worship which he loaths ? either the civill , or the spiritual state must be supream : which of these must judge the other in spirituall matters ? if the magistrate , then he is above the church , and so the head of the church ; and he hath his power from the people : ( to govern the church ) whether it will not follow , that the people , as a people , have originally as men a power to governe the church , to see her do her duty , to reform & correct her ; and so the spouse of christ , the wife of christ must be corrected according to the pleasure of the world , who lye in wickednesse ? iohn . what power a church hath over a magistrate , if he be a member of the church : if members , they may be excommunicated , if so discerning . reason . because magistrates must be subject to christ , but christ censures all offendors , cor. . , . . every brother must be subject to christs censure , mat. . , , . but magistrates are brethren , deut. . . . they may censure all within the church , cor. . . . the church hath a charge of all the souls of the church , and must give account of it , heb. . . . christs censures are for the good of soules cor. . . but magistrates must not be denied any priviledge for their soules , else they by being magistrates , should lose a priviledge of christs . . in which priviledges , christians are all one , gal. . . col. . . sins of magistrates are hatefull and condemned , esay . . mich. . . it s a paradox , that a magistrate may be punished by the church , and yet that they are judges of the church . whether every man upon that religion , which in his conscience he is perswaded is true , whether he doth not upon the truth thereof venter his soule . if that religion the magistrate , be perswaded be true , he owes a three-fold duty . first , approbation , esa . rev. . with a tender respect to the truth , and the professors of it . secondly , personall submission of his soule to the power of jesus his government , matth. . cor. . thirdly , protection of them , and their estates from violence and injury , rom. . to a false religion he owes . . permission ( for approbation he owes not to what is evill ) as mat. . . for publike peace and quietnesse . . protection of the persons of his subjects ( though of a false worship ) that no injury be offered to the persons or goods of any , rom. . object . the kings of inda compelled men to serve the lord . ergo , kings may now compell , &c. answ . they who lived under the jewish worship only were compelled , strangers were not . secondly , they were not compelled to any thing , but what they knew and confessed was their duty , chron. . , , , . thirdly , if they did compell , their actions were not morall to obliege other kings to doe so . may not the prelates by the same reason alleadge the order of the priest-hood for their episcopacy , as you for the kingly . fourthly , the kings of israel did not imprison schismatikes , pharices , herodians , &c. fifthly , the kings of israel had extraordinary profits to direct them what to do infallibly ; these kings have none such to direct them . sixthly , if the law be morall ; where is it set down in christs testament ( which is to be our rule ) that the magistrate shall compell all to his religion : for to another he will not . object . then every man may live as he list . answ . had not he as good live as he list ; as live as you list ? object . then it seemes errours may be suffered . answ . if truth may be suffered also , it will prevaile against errors . it s no more in their power to hinder errors , then it was in the power of the prelates to hinder mens preaching writing , and speaking against them . if you can hinder sathans suggestions , and the vain imaginations of mens hearts , and expell the darknesse in men , and place light in stead thereof , and hinder men from speaking each to other ; then you can suppresse erors ▪ else not , the lord only can surprise errors by the mighty power of his spirit with his word , and we believe he will certainly do it in his time to his glory , and the comfort of his people amen . one thing more i desire to know why the priests of england asume to themselves the title of a ( divine ) is it because they are exercised in divine truths , or because they pertake of the divine nature , or both , if so , then many tradesmen may as well have the title of divine given them as well as they because they pertake of the divine nature , and are as much exercised in matters divine , as the most of them , but it is a question to me , whether the title divine is to be given to any man , but only to god alone ; whose being , is onely divine . finis notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- cor. . . a proclamation ... whereas by our royal proclamation of the date the day of february / james r. england and wales. sovereign ( - : james ii) approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing j estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a proclamation ... whereas by our royal proclamation of the date the day of february / james r. england and wales. sovereign ( - : james ii) james ii, king of england, - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by the heir of andrew anderson ..., edinburgh : . reproduction of original in huntington library. broadside. at head of title: by the king a proclamation. at end of text: given at our court at windsor the day of june, . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church and state -- church of england. freedom of religion -- great britain. broadsides - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - spi global rekeyed and resubmitted - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion i r honi soit qvi mal y pense royal blazon or coat of arms by the king a proclamation . james r. iames the seventh by the grace of god , king of scotland , england , france and ireland , defender of the faith , &c. to all and sundry our good subject whom these presents do or may concern , greeting . whereas by our royal proclamation of the date the day of february / we were graciously pleased for the causes , and on the terms therein mentioned , to grant our royal tolleration to the professors of the christian religion therein named ; with and under certain restrictions and limitations ; all which are in the said proclamation more at length expressed : we now taking into our royal consideration the sinistruous interpretations , which either have , or may be made of some restrictions , therein mentioned . have thought fit by this our royal proclamation , further to declare , that we will protect our arch-bishops , and bishops , and all our subjects of the protestant religion , in the free exercise of their protestant religion , as it is by law established , and in the quiet and full injoyment of all their possessions , without any molestation or disturbance whatsoever . and we do likewise by our soveraign authority , prerogative-royal , and absolute power , suspend , stop and disable , all penal and sanguinary laws , made against any for non-conformity to the religion established by law , in that our ancient kingdom , or for exercising their respective worships , religions , rites and ceremonies ; all which laws are hereby stopt , suspended and disabled to all intents and purposes . and to the end that by the liberty thereby granted , the peace and security of our government in the practice thereof , may not be endangered , we have thought fit , and do hereby straitly charge and command all our loving subjects , that as we do give them leave to meet and serve god after their own way and manner , be it in privat houses , chappels , or places purposely hired or built for that use , so that they take care that nothing be preached or taught among them which may any ways tend to alienat the hearts of our people from us , or our government , and that their meetings be peaceable , openly and publickly held , and all persons freely admitted to them , and that they do signifie and make known to some one or more of the next privy counsellors , sheriffs , stewards , baillies , justices of the peace , or magistrats of burghs-royal , what place or places they set a part for these uses , with the names of the preachers . and that all our subjects may enjoy such their religious assemblies with greater assurance and protection , we have thought fit , and do hereby command , that no disturbance of any kind be made or given unto them , under pain of our royal displeasure , and to be further proceeded against with the outmost severity ; provided always , that their meetings be in houses , or places provided for the purpose , and not in the open fields , for which now after this our royal grace and favour shown ( which surpasses the hopes , and equals the very wishes of the most zealously concerned ) there is not the least shadow of excuse left ; which meetings in fields we do hereby strictly prohibite and forbid , against all which we do leave our laws and acts of parliament in full force and vigour , notwithstanding the premisses ; and do further command all our judges , magistrats , and officers of our forces , to prosecute such as shall be guilty of the saids field-conventicles or assemblies with the outmost rigour , as they would avoid our highest displeasure ; for we are confident none will , after these liberties and freedoms we have given to all , without reserve , to serve god in their own way , presume to meet in these assemblies , except such as make a pretence of religion , to cover their treasonable designs against our royal person , and the peace of our government . and lastly , to the end all our good subjects may have notice of this our royal will and pleasure , we do hereby command our lyon king at arms , and his brethren heraulds , macers , pursevants , and messengers at arms , to make timeous proclamation thereof at the mercat-cross of edinburgh : and besides the printing and publishing of this our royal proclamation , it is our express will and pleasure , that the same be past under our great seal of that our kingdom per saltum , without passing any other seal or register . in order whereunto , these shall be to the directors of our chancellary and their deputs , for writing the same , and to our chancellor , for causing our great seal aforesaid to be appended thereunto , a sufficient warrand . given at our court at windsor the day of june , . and of our reign the third year . by his majesties command , melfort . edinburgh , july . . present in council . james earl of perth lord high chancellor . john lord archbishop of glasgow . the lord marquess of athol privy seal . duke of hamilton . duke of gordon . earl of arran . earl of linlithgow . earl of dumfermling . earl of strathmore . earl of landerdale . earl of southesk . earl of airly . lo. viscount tarbat . lo. viscount strathallan . lo. livingston . lo. president of session . lo. advocat . lo. justice-clerk . lo. castlehill . general leivtenent dowglas . niddrie . the above-written proclamation from his most sacred majesty , being read in his privy council of scotland , was in pursuance of his majesties royal commands ordered to be published with all due solemnities . extracted forth of the records of his majesties council by me sir william paterson clerk to his majesties most honourable privy council . will. paterson . god save the king . edinbvrgh , printed by the heir of andrew anderson , printer to his most sacred majesty , anno dom. . liberty of conscience pleaded by several weighty reasons on the behalf of the people of god called quakers and also, on the behalf of others whose consciences are tender towards god : with a tender message of love unto the king / written by william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) liberty of conscience pleaded by several weighty reasons on the behalf of the people of god called quakers and also, on the behalf of others whose consciences are tender towards god : with a tender message of love unto the king / written by william smith. smith, william, d. . , [ ] p. printed, and are to be sold by william warwick, london : . reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- great britain -- apologetic works. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion liberty of conscience pleaded by several weighty reasons on the behalf of the people of god called quakers ; and also , on the behalf of others whose consciences are tender towards god. with a tender message of love unto the king . written by william smith . london , printed , and are to be sold by william warwick , the holy god , whose wisdom is infinite and unsearchable , did make of one blood all nations , and by his power and wisdom he breathed into man the breath of life , and endued him with pure reason , and understanding , in which he bore the image of god in righteousness and true holiness ; and therein he was made to differ from all sensuall creatures ; and as the pure reason and understanding did fill his inward man , he had true liberty in the same , and his conscience was free as unto god ; but the fall leading nature out of its course , the earthly wisdom entred man , and man entred into it , and thereby lost his pure reason and understanding in which he was created , and became earthly , sensuall and devellish ; in which nature mans conscience is bound in chains of darkness , and in the same nature he would binde the conscience of others unto his own perswasion ; but in the beginning it was not so : and by these reasons following it may appear , that liberty of conscience in things partaining to god , is of absolute necessity to be granted . . it being generally confessed , that man is degenerated from god , and that there is to be a restauration by jesus christ ▪ then in what way soever christ doth appear in man to restore him unto god , he is not to be limited , or his appearance quenched by any law or decree ; though he may appeare contrary to mans expectation . . it being generally confessed , that christ is a saviour ; then he is not to be limited , or his appearance quenched , in what way soever he doth appear in man to work his salvation . . it being generally confessed , that all men have sinned , and that by christ alone they must be redeemed ▪ then he is not to be limited , or his appearance quenched , in what way soever he doth appear in man to work redemption out of sin . . it being generally confessed , that sin separates from god , and that by christ alone reconciliation must be made ; then he is not to be limited , or his appearance quenched ▪ in what way soever he doth appear in man to reconcile him unto god. . it being generally confessed , that god is a spirit , and must be worshiped in spirit ; then the spirits manifestation is not to be limited or quenched , in what way forever it is made manifest in man to lead him into the worship of god. . it being generally confessed , that the spirit of truth leads into all truth ; then the spirit is not to be limited or quenched in what way soever it is made manifest in man to lead him into all truth . . it being generally confessed , that all people should live a peaceable life ; then the spirit is not to be limited or quenched , in what way soever it is made manifest in man to kill the lust and strife , and to lead him in the way of peace . . it being generally confessed , that one man should do unto another as he would that another should do unto him , then the spirit is not to be limited or quenched , in what way soever it is made manifest in man to beget love in his heart , and to lead him to do good unto all men . . it being generally confessed , that all men should be subject unto kings , and all in authority ; then the spirit is not to be limited or quenched , in what way soever it is made manifest in man , to crucifie his rebellious nature , and to subject every thought into the obedience of christ , and so make him subject unto kings , and all in authority . . it being generally confessed , that there is but one way and truth , then the spirit is not to be limited or quenched , in what way soever it is made manifest in man to discover false wayes and errors , and to lead him from them , and so bring him into the one way and truth according to its own pleasure . now the quakers principle and practice answering these generall reasons , there is a necessity why their liberty should be granted in things pertaining to god. . because they have received christ jesus in the appearance of his light , and are followers of his light in his own way , and by the light they are restored into the pure reason , wisdom and understanding in which their inward man stands innocently before god , and their outward man disposed in righteousness , as in the beginning . . because the light of christ in which he hath unto them appeared , and is their principle , is made unto them the power of god unto salvation . because the light of christ hath taken away their sin ▪ and redeemed them from all iniquity , and hath made them a peculiar people unto god. . because the light of christ hath broken down the partition wall of sin , and hath reconciled them unto god , and made their peace . . because the light of christ hath given them the true knowledge of the one onely wise god , unto whom alone they bow , and him onely worship in the light of the spirit which they have received . . because the light of christ hath manifested the truth in their hearts , and led them in the same by its own power . . because the light of christ hath killed the lust and strife in them , and lead them to live a peaceable life in all godliness and honesty . . because the light of christ hath purged out deceit and hypocrisie ▪ and begotten love in their hearts , that they cannot render evil for evil , but abide in the doctrine of christ , and love their enemies . . because the light of ch●●●● hath crucified the rebellious nature in them , and made them subject to his own will , and thereby subjects them unto kings ▪ and all in authority , and they faithfully answer the kings command , wherein they can keep their consciences clear in the sight of god , and what for conscience sake they cannot answer , they patiently suffer under , and so dare do nothing against the truth ▪ but for the truth , and walk with a conscience void of offence towards god and man. . because the light of christ hath discovered unto them ▪ the many false wayes and errors , and the great danger in them , and hath led them into the one way and truth , in which they have true peace with god , and serve him in singleness of their hearts ; and thus hath christ done that for them which no o other could do ; by which they know that it is he ; and they are witnesses of ●i● power and life , giving him the glory over all , who is worthy for ever . now as it is evident by these reasons that the quakers have received the holy and true principle of light that comes from christ jesus , and walk in the same , so they ought to have that liberty granted them into which christ hath restored them , they answering in principle and practice those things which by others are in words confessed , who say , but do not perform , which shews that they are in the weakness of the flesh , in which none can please god ; but they that obey the light and follow it , they do those things that are well = pleasing in his sight , and in the light they are accepted ; and in this principle and practise the quakers have fulness of joy and peace . now as concerning others , who are not like-minded at present , and yet in their conscience are tender towards god , and answers a conscience unto god , according to the perswasion that he hath wrought in them by his spirit , that they may not be suppressed , because there is not any thing which is begotten in tenderness towards god , that is to be crushed , bruised or quenched by force or violence of any law ; and whilest people behave themselves peaceably , the liberty of their conscience in things pertaining to god , ought not to be denied them , and where it is so , they that have power , do not to others as they would be done by , and so manifest that they are void of natural affections . and these things i write , that not any thing of god , though never so low and weak in its rising , may be crushed or quenched any way in its tender breathings ; so will truth , peace and righteousness flourish in the earth in the same life , power and wisdom ▪ which was before trangression and persecution , and puts an end to it again . a tender message of love unto the king. o king , my speech is directed unto thee in all humbleness of mind , and from the tenderness of my heart i write the matter which is laid upon me from the most high , let it therefore be received and entertained by thee as a matter of greatest weight and concernment unto thee ; for it is that only by which thou must either stand or fall . be it therefore known unto thee , that the one blood of which god made all nations , and in which is life , is the most royal blood , and the most noble and renownable of all things , and by it alone all mankind have life , breath and being , amongst whom thou art one , o king ; therefore thy life not being in thy own hand , consider who hath prolonged thy dayes , and stretched out thy years , who hath helped thee in time of straits , tryals , distresses and affl●ctions , is it not god alone , who also can cut thy days short , and finish them in a moment ? let this consideration be with thee in thy private chamber , that thou mayest fear before the most high , and apply thy heart unto wisdom ; for by wisdom kings reign , and thrones are established , and in wisdoms path thou wilt find the footsteps of those poor despised people called quakers , who have hearkened to wisdoms voice , and walk with her in her own way ; therefore entreet them well , for they are a people redeemed by the lord , and he hath chosen them out of nations , kindreds , tongues and people , and they are as dear unto him as the apple of his eye , for he is their god , and they are his people ; and of their innocency and peaceableness thou hast had large experience , and hast not found them at any time to be rebellious , though they have and do suffer great afflictions under thy power ; yet this is their comfort in all their afflictions , that they do not suffer as evil-doers , but as innocent from all just offences , whereby they can approve their hearts unto god , and to the glory of god they can enquire of all men if at any time they have wronged , or injured , or evil entreated any man since the precious truth hath entered into their hearts , and if herein none can justly accuse them , as certainly none can ; then the lord wil not hold them guiltless that do in any wise oppress them , for it is his cause they stand in , & the strength of men cannot overturn it . oh take counsel at the light of christ with w ch thou art enlightened , and in the light thou wilt feel the life of these poor despised people ; and as thou com●st to feel their life in the light , then will thy love be towards them ; but if thou hate the light in thy own conscience , thou canst never know them as they are ; and so instead of being a nursing father to them , thou mayest add to their afflictions , as being ignorant of them ; for none can know them , but in the light of christ , by which they are changed and renewed in the spirit of their minds , and translated into the heavenly life , which the earthly wisdom cannot comprehend . oh! let no counsel enter into thy heart , to cause thee to turn against this people ; but pursue thy promises which thou hast made , and so often renewed , touching liberty of conscience ; for the performance of those promises will be of greater strength and security unto thee , then all the strength that others can give thee to defend thee , who with reasons would or may overcome thee to make thy promises void , and thereby cause thee to add afflictions upon the innocent , who at this day bear the burden ▪ though every way they seek thy good , and concerning whom i do believe that thou hast a perswasion in thy own heart touching their innocency ; and if thou take heed unto that which doth at any time perswade thee that they are an innocent people , it will yet more perswade thee , and will work thy heart into love towards them , even as theirs is towards thee , to do thee good in any wise : and as they are a free-born people within thy dominion , and have an outward portion in the same , with wives , children and families , who are ready to do good in all places where they are seeled , let it not enter into thy heart to spoile them , or banish them from their native beings and birth rights , and from husbands , wives , children and relations , who are not all like-minded in the truth . therefore , o king , have regard to this weighty matter , upon which thy own happiness so much dependeth ; for if thou do wel , it may be well with thee ; but if otherwise , the lord god will be clear when he judges . nottingham country-gaol the d day of the d mo . . i am a sincere lover of thy immortal soul , w. s. the end . proclamation against all meetings of quakers, anabaptists, &c. scotland. parliament. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) proclamation against all meetings of quakers, anabaptists, &c. scotland. parliament. sheet ([ ] p.) by evan tyler, [edinburgh : ] imprint from wing. signed and dated at end: given at edinburgh the . day of january, . and of our reign the twelfth year. a. primerose, cls. reg. annotation on thomason copy: "feb: d "; the second in date has been crossed out. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- scotland -- early works to . anabaptists -- scotland -- early works to . freedom of religion -- scotland -- early works to . assembly, right of -- scotland -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion cr diev et mon droit . honi · soit · qvi · mal · y · pense royal blazon or coat of arms proclamation against all meetings of quakers , anabaptists , &c. charles , by the grace of god , king of great brittain , france and ireland , defender of the faith ; to our lovits , heraulds , pursevants and messengers at arms , our sheriffs , in that part specially constitute , greeting : forasmuch as by several laws and acts of our parliament , especially by the one hundred and thirty one of the eight parliament of king james the sixth . our grandfather of blessed memory ( and renewed and ratified by vs , with advice of our estates of parliament , presently conveened ) it is statuted and ordained , that none of our subjects , of whatsoever quality , state or function , conveen or assemble themselves , for holding councils , conventions or assemblies ( except in the ordinary iudgements ) without our warrand , or express licence , had and obtained thereto , under the pain made against such as unlawfully convocate our lieges : and that notwithstanding thereof , there be divers persons under the name of quakers , anabaptists , and fifth-monarchy-men , avowed enemies to our lawful authority and government , whoupon specious and religious pretences , at unlawful times and places , keep frequent meetings and conventicles together : and we , and our estates of parliament , considering what hath been the cruel tenets , and bloody practises of such in former times , and what insurrections and murthers have been committed by them in our kingdome of england , within these few dayes , and of what bad consequence their meetings may prove at this time . our will is herefore , and we charge you and straitly commands : that incontinent thir our letters seen , ye passe , and in our name and authority , inhibit and discharge all meetings and conventions of the persons foresaid , upon whatsoever colour or pretext the same may be , under the pains contained in our acts of parliament , made against unlawful convocations of our lieges : and for the better preventing of such unlawful meetings , and of any prejudice may ensue thereby , we do hereby command all magistrates of our burghs , sheriffs , constables , iustices of the peace and other our publick ministers , to make exact search from time to time , in all places where any such meeting hath been , shall , or may be suspected ; and to apprehend every such person , who shall keep , or frequent these meetings , and to commit them to the next prison , therein to remain till further order be taken with them , by such as shall have our authority for that effect ; and ordains you to make publication hereof at the mercat cross of our royal burroughs , where-through none pretend ignorance thereof , as ye will answer to vs thereupon : the which to do , we commit to you , conjunctly and severally , our full power , by thir our letters , &c. given at edinburgh the . day of january , . and of our reign the twelfth year . a. primerose , cls. reg. the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired, presented to the lord protector, and the parliament, and subscribed by luke fawne, john rothwel, samuel gellibrand, thomas underhill, joshua kirton, nathaniel web. wherin, their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent, and those books which have been published by them they call quakers, owned and vindicated, and all the rest which is in that book disowned, and their deceite laid open; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy, that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen. / by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog, called after the flesh, francis howgil. also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord, by one john griffith, against us, whom the world calls quakers, wherein his false accusations is denied, and he proved to be a slanderer, and the truth cleared from his scandals. by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world, called edward burrough. howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired, presented to the lord protector, and the parliament, and subscribed by luke fawne, john rothwel, samuel gellibrand, thomas underhill, joshua kirton, nathaniel web. wherin, their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent, and those books which have been published by them they call quakers, owned and vindicated, and all the rest which is in that book disowned, and their deceite laid open; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy, that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen. / by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog, called after the flesh, francis howgil. also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord, by one john griffith, against us, whom the world calls quakers, wherein his false accusations is denied, and he proved to be a slanderer, and the truth cleared from his scandals. by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world, called edward burrough. howgill, francis, - . burrough, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for giles calvert, at the black-spread eagle at the west end of pauls., london, : . annotation on thomason copy: "nou: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng griffith, john, ?- . -- voice from the word of the lord. second beacon fired. quakers -- england -- early works to . persecution -- early works to . freedom of religion -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired,: presented to the lord protector, a howgill, francis c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the fiery darts of the divel quenched ; or , something in answer to a book called , a second beacon fired , presented to the lord protector , and the parliament , and subscribed by luke fawne , john rothwel , samuel gellibrand , thomas vnderhill , joshua kirton , nathaniel web . wherin , their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent , and those books which have been published by them they call quakers , owned and vindicated , and all the rest which is in that book disowned , and their deceite laid open ; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy , that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen . by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog , called after the flesh , francis howgil . also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord , by one john griffith , against us , whom the world calls quakers , wherein his false accusations is denied , and he proved to be a slanderer , and the truth cleared from his scandals . by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world , called edward burrough . london , printed for giles calvert , at the black-spread eagle at the west end of pauls . . first of all you go about and flatter the powers and the magistrates , and tells them they ought to have a care of their peoples souls in keeping them from infection of idolatry and blasphemy , and you say you are to informe them of the dangerousnesse of great meeting in london of quakers , whose opinions are blasphemous , paganish , antiscriptural and anti-christian , even as the former . and further , the greatest thing that troubles you , is printing and publishing books many thousands , you say , concerning blasphemous and heretical , and antimagistratical opinions tending to unchristian people , and disorder the people of the nations , and to bring in paganisme , and libertinisme , and this you say you present unto them to provoke their zeale against them . oh you blood thirsty minded men , all the care that you would have the magistrates to take of the people is to destroy them , and to have them shut up in holes and caves , and dens , and prisons , and the truth ever suffered by your generation , and your generation hath ever pressed the magistrates that they might abuse their power , and if they will but hearken to you , instead of healing the people , they will be destroyers ▪ and in stead of making up breaches , they will make desolate , and so you would drive them on hastily to satisfie your corrupt wil , and to uphold your diana , and your craft , that you may make merchandize of that which hath been long enough sold and printed by you ; and what hath it done ? who is turned from darknesse to light ? and you that makes a trade of others writings and words , to maintain you in your lusts , and deceive , this you would have them to uphold ; but as for the care of peoples soules , it s far enough from you , and all along your filthy lying slanderous booke , you are made manifest to bee of those that would have fire to come down from heaven in your wils to destroy all those that withstand you and your imaginations . and therfore let all magistrates in whom the fear of the lord is , take heed how they take things from the hands and mouthes of them who hath alwaies persecuted the power of truth , and called truth errour , and light darknesse , and darknesse light ; and in a blind zeale for god , destroy them whom the power of the lord is manifest in ; for so paul persecuted christ , and the saints , and so the jewes crucified christ , and all the saints have suffered . and you are offended at our meeting in london , while wee have beene here in the city wee have not been in a corner , and wee challenge you and all the city in the name of the lord , who is dreadfull to all liers , and slanderers , to show what are those blasphemies that you speake of , you backbiters shall have your portion with the rest of hypocrites : opinions we deny , for the light of jesus christ which is spirituall which appears and declares against all sects , and opinions , and blasphemies , and all you who hates it , are in contention , and in opinions , and blaspheme the truth ; and here i charge it upon you in the presence of the living god , that you are blasphemers who calls the light naturall and paganisme ; and the lord wil plead with you , you filthy corrupt minds , who calls the light of christ . antichristian , for here in the presence of the lord of hosts ▪ i speake it , no other light doe wee owne to walk by , but that which is spiritual and eternal , the light of christ , which he hath enlightned every one that comes into the world withal ; and this is not anti-scriptural as thou cals it ; for the scriptures witness the same , and christ bears witness of it , and no other light do we own but the same that ever was , which was in the beginning , and which convinceth the world of sin , and the same that led up the saints to know the father and the son : and you that cal this paganisme and heretical , and blasphemous , and antichristian , let all who have any light in them judg , and let shame cover your faces , and fear take hold upon you , for your words stinke , and come out of the mouth of the dragon ; ye filthy unclean frogs , which hath poison under your tongues ▪ and as for the bookes which wee have printed , wee owne them , and are ready to lay downe our lives for the testimonie of jesus , and the truth of them , and seale them with our blood , and what are written in them , through the eternal power of god , which is made manifest , and that wee have published any thing against any just magistracie , let all our writings , and all who reade them judge ; and if bearing witnesse to jesus christ unchristians people , let all judge ; for no other do wee owne , but the same christ to day and yesterday , and for ever ; and here all your petitioning is made manifest , from whence it did arise and proceed , and your shame and nakednesse , and envie appears . and the sacraments which you say you use , which is appointed in the scripture , and farnworth in answer to a petition did deny them . answer , his answer we owne ; and i challenge you to bee perverters of the scripture ; where read you of sacraments in the scripture ? here i charge you to be liers and slanderers , and deniers of the scripture , and adders to it , and the plagues shall be added to you ; and as for that which you use among you is traditional and imitatory . yet the bread which wee break is the communion of the body of christ , and the cup wee drink is the communion of the blood of christ , and this is that which paul received from him : and baptisme by one spirit into one body we owne ; the baptisme is but one , and this wee owne , and here you liers and slanderers are seen and denied . another thing you call heresie and blasphemy , is , that wee say that christ hath enlightned all men ; but i shal lay downe your own words , and prove you liers out of that booke called the general good to all people : and you say the light of god that is in all men , that is to wit , natural conscience , that it is sufficient , if wee give heed unto it , to discover sinne , and and turne our minds towards god , and that this light within , is the grace of god , and that it is christ in us . answer , let all that reades that booke , see if you bee not liers and slanderers , and perverters , and are in the generation of those false witnesses which bore witnesse against christ ; and here i charge you to be liers . where in all the bookdoth he say that the light of a natural conscience is sufficient to guide to god , if it be taken heed to ? or where doth it say it discovers sin ? there is another lie : and where doth hee say that natural conscience is the grace of god ? there is a third lie ; and where doth hee say that natural conscience is christ in us ? there is a fourth lie ; bee ashamed that ever you should goe and present so many filthy lies to authority that there is no truth in at all . oh ▪ yee darke mindes , would you be judging and prescribing what is heresie and blasphemie , and cals the light of christ paganisme and heresie ? but i am bold in the name of the lord , to declare unto you , and unto all the world , that christ is the true light that hath enlightned every one that comes into the world , and that this light is spiritual , and not natural , and it convinceth of all sinne ; hee shal convince the world of sinne , and whoso obey this light which shines into the conscience , it leads up to christ , and out of sinne , and it turns the mind towards god , and it shines in darknesse ; but you dark sottish children know it not ; yea , you that hate it , have it , and it shal condemne you , and when the book of conscience shall be opened , you shall be judged for all your hard speeches against the truth . another thing you present to be blasphemie and heresie , is that the worship that is performed in england with those ministers that sing davids psalms , baptize infants , weare double cuffes , boot hose tops , take tithes , say men shal never be perfect in this world , and that say the letter is the light , and the letter is the word ; and that salvation is in the scripture , and that cals matthew , mark , luke & john , the gospel , are seducers , and no ministers of the word , but shew forth the spirit of error . answer . all those ministers in england which abide not in the doctrine of christ ▪ all those worshippers and worships which is contrary to the scripture are heathenish , and they worship they know not what ; and all such worship is an abomination to the true god ; and i charge you and all those that would be counted ministers in england , to prove from the scripture where the saints sung davids conditions , and psalms in rimes and meter ; and where is there any scripture for baptizing of infants ▪ and whether any of the ministers of christ lived in pride and lusts of the flesh , and where any ministers of christ took tithes , which belonged to the first priesthod and the first covenant ; and so they that uphold the first , denie the second , and the one everlasting offering which perfects for ever them that are sanctified ; and where doth the scripture say that the letter is the word and the light ? but it witnesses against you and saith , god is the word , and christ is the light , and christ is the gospel , yea the everlasting gospel ; and mathew , marke , luke and john declared of him : and heare be you a witnesse against your self , ye dark minded men : and i charge you that you deny the scripture ; and all those who upholds those things are in the heathenish nature , without god in the world , in the earth where the divil dwels who is an accuser of the bretheren : and doth not the scripture and they declare it who were ministers of christ , that there were that ran after the errour of balaam , and their hearts was exercised with covetous practises ? and were there not such that was raylers , and false accusers , and blind watchmen , and greedy dumb dogs , and such as sought for their gaine from their quarter , and such as lead into wichcraft , and antichrists , deceivers ? you might as wel have called christ , and paul and peter and jude blasphemers and hereticks ; but you are made manifest just to be them and in the same nature that called christ a blasphemer , and paul a pestilent fellow , and a setter forth of strange gods , and the ministers of christ seditious ; and thou might as wel say christ despised a governor when he called herod a fox ; and now blessed be the lord the houre of his judgments is come : and we freely declare against all deceit both in magistrates , priests and people as they did that wrote forth the scripture , and beare witnesse to his name as they did , in our measure , and we have suffered and do suffer dayly by slanderous tongues , such as you have ; and imprisonments , and cruel mockings , and stripes , and bonds , and can truly say to the praise of his name , we beare in our bodies the markes of the lord jesus ; but we must passe through good report and evil report , and it is our crown and rejoycing to suffer for his name ; and now gog and magog and all the powers of the earth bends themselves and are angry , even the nations that professe christ in words , and say the scripture is their rule , but walke not according to it ; and against all such hypocrisie are we witnesses , to the fulfilling our testimony , and the laying down of our lives , that he alone may be honored who sits upon the throne of david , and of whose government there is no end , to whom be praise for ever , who shall breake all your combinations and plots , and you shall be ground to powder who set your selves against him , and be dashed to pieces as a potters vessel . and now to that which you call antimagistratical errors , that the magistrates are not to have titles of worshipful or right worshipful , and that the subjects of a common wealth which is not israels common wealth are to be disturbed , and that no civil government is to be acknowledged but the government of the law within us . answer . where reads thou or any , that any magistrate was called worshipful or right worshipful , or ever any of the saints of god did so ? he that is righteousnesse and truth , unto whom all honor and worship belongs , god blessed for ever , we owne and worship , he is no respecter of persons . and you filty flaterers who are in the curse , respect mens persons , and so you are rased out for ever from the faith of christ , and from the faith which all the holy men of god lived in , that you know it not : but you false accusers , magistrates we know , and they are for the punishment of evil doers and for the lawlesse , for liers and slanderers , such as you are , and for the praise of them that do wel , and we honor such in our hearts , and obeys their just commands ; and are not like him that said he would goe and went not , but are subject for conscience sake to the powers that are of ●od , and are subject to every ordinance of man for the lords sake ; but we cannot flatter nor respect mens persons and deny the faith of christ , but are brought from under the power of unrighteousnesse by the mighty power of god , and are subject to all just lawes which stand not , nor were made in mans wil , but obeys them for consciences sake , and if any law which is not just nor equal be required upon us that wee cannot do ; wee suffer for conscience sake , and resist not at all , as many of our enemies will witnesse for us ; and therefore you false accusers be silent ; they that are subject to israels commonwealth are righteous , and walkes in righteousnesse , in that which is just , good and holy ; and wee witnesse against all the canaanites who walk in unrighteousnesse , and all who are enemies to the commonwealth of israel must be broken to pieces , and them that strive and contend against the faith which was once delivered to the saints , and is now witnessed , praysed be the lord , all such must be disturbed and broken to peices by the just , even all the unjust shal be broken ; and as for that which thou sayest wee say , we ought not to be subject to any civil government but that which is within us , oh thou lyer , when wilt thou cease thy lying ? where is that ? i charge thee to prove where that is spoken : yet this i say unto all , moses received the law from the mouth of the lord , and it was revealed to him , and in him , and then he wrote it without and was subject to it , and all who makes laws now and doe not receive them from god , they make them in their own wils , and such as doe act contrary to the law of god ; but that law which is righteous , which is according to that in the conscience , which is holy and good and civil , we are subject both within and without to it : and all you your subjection which is not from a principle within , is not in truth not singlenesse of heart , but with flattery , and your eye service and your bowing downe in hypocrisie and saying you are subject when there is no truth in the heart , and so you are not subject for conscience sake . and further , you say in farnworth general good to all people , let every soule be subject to the higher powers , by powers is meant god , the father of jesus christ , and by king the lord of hosts , and that is another blasphemy . woe unto filthy lyers ; i challenge you that you have perverted his words , and would give meanings upon them as you do upon the scriptures , and your owne dark sottish mindes cannot comprehend , and therefore you give your own imaginations , and then calles it blasphemy ; and let all that read that booke , see if you have not belyed the truth , and perverted his words another thing you set downe for blasphemy , that none are ministers of god and called by him who are sent forth by authority of man , and that he that is not infallible in his judgement , is no minister of christ . answer . you might have said pauls words were blasphemy ; he was made a minister , not by mens wil , and all the holy men of god , and apostles were not ministers by the will of man , but contrary to the wil of man , and all who are made ministers of man , and by man , we deny , and the scripture denies them , for what they preached , they neither received it of man nor from man , but by the revelation of jesus christ ; and all who have and are made ministers by heare say , and what they have formed up in their imaginations from the scripture , with their points , and their doctrins , which they raise in their carnall mindes , all such we declare against ; and all such who abide not in the doctrine of christ , and all who were made ministers of christ , were spiritual and infallible ; that which is not infallible , is carnall : and all who are guided by the spirit of christ is infallible , and they that are not guided by it are none of his , nor the sons of god , nor ministers of christ : and therefore , all that such can judge of , is nothing but imaginary ; and all you who have subscribed this booke , and all such ministers i deny . yee shamelesse men , would you be trying and perscribing , and set dowe what is heresie , and blasphemy ; and cryes out of that for heresie , and blasphemy ; which you should try with all ? your shame is laid open to all , and now your shame i hope will appeare to the parliament , whom you petition . what cry you out against books , and printing , and blasphemy , that cannot distinguish a lamb from a dog ? would you judg truth by darknesse ? and you are offended that there are so many quakers met in the north parts lately , two thousand ; yea blessed bee the lord , there are many thousands that sees you , and never will bow to baal , nor worship in the house of rimmon more ; and m●ny shal not only come from the north , but also from the south , yea in london , that now sees all your deceit , and they shal enter , and you shal be shut out . and what truth is this that cannot defend it selfe ; and what religion is that which cannot defend it selfe , but you must have all bend to your image that you would set up ? and now unto you who are petitioned unto ; i say , unto you , take heed and beware how you call or suppresse any thing as error , or how you meddle in the prescribing god a way to walke in , for he cannot , he will not be limited : and i say unto you , it were better a milstone were hanged about your necks , then to hinder or stop , or make any law to hinder the passage of the truth which is arising : and consider the lord hath thrown out all powers before this because they would needs limit the holy one of israel , and prescribe him a way , and a government how he should be worshipped , and many have suffered , and what hath all come to ? all the rules that men hath laid down , hath they not beene as the untimely fruit of a woman and as corne upon the house top , and for that all hath beene throwne downe , and broken ? and the jealousie of the lord is broken forth as fire , and and woe to them that withstands him in his way : and now i say unto you , if you now prescribe god a way , and if that in the conscience have not liberty , but you wil goe about to set bounds to him , and his people in the worship of god , you shall be broken as a potters vessel , for the government is upon his shoulders , and he wil not give his glory to any other ; the lord hath spoken it . and for the rest of the bookes in the beacon fired , wee disowne them ; but i believe you have belied them , as you have done ours . a certaine book being come forth into the world , ful of lies and slanders against the innocent , called a voice from the word of the lord , to those grand impostors called quakers ; to the author of which book ( who calls himselfe j●hn griffith , a servant of christ ) and to all to whomsoever it may come , i am moved to write something in answer , that his lies and slanders , and false r●proaches may be made manifest , and that he may proceed no further ; for as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so doth he resist the truth , being a man of a corrupt mind , and reprobate concerning faith , and is not a servant of christ , nor a witnesse for his name , but a child of disobedience , in whom the prince of the aire rules . and first to the title of thy book , i answer , the word of the lord is powerful , and wil cut thee down , thou sensual minded man ; yet thou knowest not , but takes the words of others declared from the word vvhich vvas in them , and thou useth thy tongue , and saith the lord saith it ; but i say unto thee , the lord hath not spoken unto thee , neither commanded thee to speak of his name : and i charge it upon thee in the presence of the lord god of life , that thou art of that generation which jeremiah was sent to cry against , jer. . . for thou speakes thy imaginations upon their words which dwelt in the life of god ▪ but the life thou knowest not , and thy whole book is no more but an empty sound and voice , & is as the untimely fruit of the womb which wil wither and perish away : and one of them i am whom thou calls quakers , to whom thou saist , thou directs thy speech ; but that wee are grand impostors , i do denie , for we are gathered up into the life which the holy men of god lived , and are fallen from the world , and from its wayes and nature : and i charge thee here to be a slanderer , and from the mouth of the lord i do declare unto thee that thou must have a slanderers reward . and vvheras thou saist thou hast discovered their fleshly and filthy mindednesse , together vvith the judgments of god attending them . i answer . fleshly and filthy mindednesse , we have denied by the power of the sonne of god made manifest in us ; thou hast laid it to our charge , but thou hast not proved it nor discovered it , and here againe thou art a false accuser ; fleshly and filthy mindedness shal stand for thy ovvne condition ; for there thou art in the flesh and filth , living to thy vvil in the lust of uncleanesse , for you may remember thou came out of the bowling allie to our meeting , though pharisee like thy out side is painted and made clean , but thy heart is ful of enmity and lies , and slanders and false reproaches , to that in thy conscience i do speake which shal for ever vvitnesse me , and as for the judgments of the lord upon thy own head wil they fal , and with what measure thou metes it shal be measured to thee again ; we are passed from judgment , and from the condemnation , and who art thou , thon enemy of righteousnesse , that shal lay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? and whereas thou saiest thou art one that bears witnesse against those wandring starres . i answer , this shal stand for thy owne condition , a wandring star thou art , and hath no habitation in the heaven , but speaks swelling words of vanity , thou thy self being a servant of corruption , we have an abinding place , and an habitation in the lord , and are not wandring ; and here againe i charge thee to be a false accuser , and a false witnesse , who bears witnesse of thy selfe ; for the father bears no witnesse of thee , but against thee . whereas thou saist the most high god that made the heavens and the earth , hath moved thee and stirred thee up to bear witnesse to the truth , and to witnesse against the abmoinable fleshly mindednesse , and yet spiritual pride of those grand impostors called quakers , by whose sorceries many are bewitched and drawn from the simplicity of the gospell , to another gospel , which is not another gospel , but the vanity of their owne minds , and their owne fleshly and corrupt thoughts which they cry up as oracles of god . i answer ▪ the most high god judge between thee and us ; whose wrath is kindled against thee ▪ thou enemie of righteousnesse , and child of wrath ; thou hast belied the lord of heaven and earth , for to this he moved thee not , for he moves none to utter lies and slanders as thou hast done , but the spirit of enmity and of the divil hath moved thee , and to the truth thou beares no witnesse , but against the truth , and against the innocent ; and charges us with fleshly mindednesse and spirituall pride . o thou lier and false accuser , the lord who takes our part against thee will plead with thee , and render upon thy head according to thy deedes ; prove what thou speaks that we are fleshly minded and spiritually proud , or else let thy mouth be stopped and shame cover thee for ever ; sorceries and witchcraft and drawing from the simplicity of the gospel wee doe deny ; but the plaine single truth wee doe declare , by which the eye of the blind is opened in many to see your deceits who call your selves churches and preachers of the gospel ; which is not the gospel that the apostles preached but an adding your own imaginations upon their words , who witnessed the gospel , and it shal stand for thy own condition , thou art in the sorcery and witchraft ; who draws people to observe an outward visible thing , from the light of christ within them ; which leades to the simplicity of the gospel , which is inward and not outward ; and thou art in thy fleshly and corrupt thoughts , crying up the ordinances and oracles , of god , which are but carnal and beggerly rudiments of the world , which passeth away ; and here thou art seen and made manifest in the light of christ , to be a hypocrite , who false accuses others of that which thou art guilty of thy selfe ; the same gospel as ever was , doe we declare ; and not another , which wee received not from man , neither was taught it by man : and as the oracles of god it shall stand for ever for a witnesse against thee , and all the world who doth not believe , for even the father beares witnesse of us , and therefore our witnesse is true ; and the righteous god will plead with thee thou lyar and false accuser , and here be a witnesse against thy selfe that the lord moved thee not , but the divil , acting in thy owne imaginations , and in the vanity of thy one minde , and in thy one fleshly and corrupt thoughts ; and whereas thou sayest to us thou directs thy speech from the lord , thus saith the lord to thee o quaker , thou art fleshly minded . i answer , it is not the voyce of the lord to us that speaks in thee , but the voyce of the divil , and the serpent which speaks from thee : fleshly minded we are not , but are redeemed out of it , and our mindes are changed and are spiritual and 't is the spirit of the living god seales unto us and witnesses in us , and here thou art of thy father the old dragon , an accuser of the bretheren , but it is god that justifies , and who art thou that condemns ? and this thy speech is seene and comprehended , which thou hast directed to us , and it is judged by the spirit of true judgment to be a false accusation and a lie , and not the word of the lord , and into the lake amongst the false prophets thou art to be turned , who useth thy tongue when the lord never spake to thee ; and thou saiest we looke upon the institution of christs supper with a fleshly and carnal eye , because wee say that the bread and wine which christ commanded his disciples to eate and to drinke , is carnall . i answer . the bread , and wine , is visible and carnal , and fleshly , and not spiritual , nor eternal , and in the eternall light by the spiritual eye of god opened in us , we see them and do owne that it was a command of christ , to stand for its time , and no more , but a carnal figure of a spiritual thing , and the spiritual thing being the substance bearing witnesse , the figure is denyed and declared against , and thou and thy generation who art acting in those things by tradition tying and limiting god to a visible thing ( that without it no salvation ) art in the sorcerie and witchraft , and an enemie to the substance ; for christ never since he was sacrifised brake of the bread or dranke of the cup with his disciples , but new in his fathers kingdome ; and thou who art in the carnal figure acting those things without the injoyment of christ art sensual and by the light of christ is to be condemned and juged , with the world , who art without god and without the injoyment of christ , in the beggerly rudiments of the world , thou saist o fleshly minded men whom the god of this world hath blinded because you believe not : and thou sayst , thus saith the lord and speaks the prophet mal. words : to which i answer ; this again i do deny ; the god of the world is cast out , and the eye is opened through judgment , and our fleshly minds are judged , and in the name of jesus we do believe , and our belief in him hath purified our hearts ; to the praise of the living god , who hath wrought all our works in us , and for us , do i speake without boasting ; and here againe i charge it upon thee , that thou art a slanderer and a false accuser ; and let shame cover thee who professes thy selfe to be a teacher of others , who thy selfe is not taught of the lord ; but steals malachies words , and speaks them to us in thine own imaginations , and calls it the word of the lord ; the lord is against thee thou false prophet , who prophesies lies in his name ; and that which thou speaks to us is thy owne condition , and that which shall come upon thine own head , for a child of disobedience thou art , and thy eye is blinded by the god of this world ; and whereas thou saiest wee are spiritually proud , that give forth our selves to bee some great ones ; and wee say wee are apostles , and are not , but are found liers , proud pharisees , hypocrites , that say wee are just , holy , humble ; and the poor sinful publicans are more justified then wee ; i answer ; proud wee are not , our god shall judge between thee and us in this thing , for wee have nothing but what wee have freely received from him : and that we give forth our selves to be great ones ; here thou art a lier , and a false accuser again ; this we have said , and do yet again declare that we were moved of the lord of heaven and earth to come to declare his mind and his truth in this city ; but this is no boasting , and by that same spirit which was in the apostles , were wee moved , and are guided , and by no other , but who hath found us liers since wee came , i challenge you , and all thy sect to prove one lie that wee have uttered ; or else let shame cover thee , and let thy mouth be stopped ; and let thy owne heart condemne thee to be found the lier thy selfe ; and this we testifie against thee , and all the world , that by jesus , and in him are wee made holy , just , and humble , he is made these things in us , and for us ; and the publican state is witnessed by us who have passed through the figure and parable into the life and substance ; and whereas thou saist wee that boast of our light within , and faith , thus saith the lord and brings christs words . i answer , this is another lie , wee doe not boast of our light within , but vvee vvitnesse it to bee within us , and to have enlightned every one that comes into the vvorld ; vvhich thou and thy generation denies ▪ and so vvould make christ a lier , and the scripture a lie ; but against you all with all the vvorld vve beare testimony , and the father beares vvitnesse with us , that every man that comes into the world is lightned by the light of christ ; which teaches all that love it into righteousnesse , but condemns them that hate it , wherof thou art one who utters forth thy lies and slanders , and false accusations against the innocent ; and that scripture john . we owne , and do witnesse to be fulfilled in us by the coming of christ ; hee which did see , is blind , and hee which was blind now sees ; and while wee did see our sin remained , but being blind wee have no sinne ; but this to thee and to thy spirit is a mystery sealed , and never to be known in that nature and wisdome ; and here againe thou hast used thy tongue false prophet like , and must receive a false prophets reward . and whereas thou saist if christ had not spoke to us in his word , we had had no sin , but now wee have no cloak for our sinne . i answer . christs words we owne , but here thou art made manifest to all to be an adder to the scripture ( in his word ) this thou hast added false prophet-like , and therefore the lord will adde his plagues unto thee as the scripture saith ; bee ashamed and blush , thy folly and wickednesse is made manifest , who is not ashamed ( to carry on thy designe ) to adde to christs words . and whereas thou saiest , wee do not only neglect the weightier matters of the law , but the law it selfe , teaching men so to doe ; for wee said that the scripture is not the rule of faith and conversation , as one of us taught sept. . in thy hearing , and many others that will witnesse it . i answer , here i challenge thee to prove that thou hast spoken , and all thy witnesses which thou speakes of ; oh thou lier be ashamed to forge such lies , and declare them in writing for truth , we neglect not the weightier matters of the law , nor the law , nor teach any so to do ; all that ever heard us wil bear witnesse against thee , and they ( though our enemies ) shal witnesse for us , and against thee in this thing , for we declare the everlasting gospel , which is the fulfilling of the law , and this we declare , that the law must have its operation through , before the gospel be witnessed ; and one of thy owne society said to us , wee had preached the law , and brought men to understand it from grace ; now let all take notice of the confusion you live in , and let your owne hearts condemne you , and the light in your owne consciences convince you , that you are in babylon and in confusion , and are no true church of christ , where all are of one heart , and one mind ▪ and this againe i affi●me as before i did in thy hearing , that the scripture is not the saints rule , but the spirit which gave forth the scripture , as the scripture it self witnesses , rom. . faith was before the scripture was , and therfore the scripture is not the ground of it , but a declaration of it , and no other faith we owne but the faith which abel had , and which moses had , which was when no scripture was written , and that we own to be the rule of our conversation , which they walked by , the immediate spirit of god which was before the scripture was written ; and all you who professe the scripture to be your rule , your own rule shal testifie against you when the eternal god judges you , and they vvho vvitness that to bee their rule which gave forth the scripture , walkes up in the life of the scripture more then you all ; and you are proved to be but the jew outward , who bosts of the ordinances from the letter , but persecutes them by slanders and false reproaches , who witnesse the substance ; and your praise is only of men , and not of god ; and the same woe which thou pronounces upon us wil fall upon thy owne head for this thy grievous slander , that we neglect the law , and teach men so to do ; and whereas thou brings many scriptures , and saith thus saith the lord , i answer , the scriptures we owne , and by that spirit which speaks them forth , wee witnesse them to be true , and they are ours ; and though you say they are the savour of death to us that perish , yet thou art found a lier , for wee are saved out of the perishing state , and death is destroyed through death , and thou hast diminished ( through faith ) from that scripture tim. . . false prophet like againe , and so art both an adder and a diminisher , and thou maist read thy portion in rev. . , . and whereas thou saiest , know this thou perverter of the right way of god , thou shalt bee judged by the word of christ spoke . i answer , here thou sets the scripture in the roome of christ , and art the perverter of the right way of god thy selfe , for the scripture saith , all judgement is commited to the sonn , and the scripture is not the sonne ; and thou didst say and now againe writes , that the scripture shall judge the vvorld ; and so i charge it upon thee that thou art a blasphemer , vvho exalts the scripture above the sonne , of god , and shalt be judged by the sonne into utter drrknesse , and into the pit , from vvhence thou art come ; yet this i testifie , he that receives the sonne rejecteth not those vvords vvhich vvas spoken by him ; though thou and thy generation pharisee like may make a profession of the vvords vvhich christ spoke and yet reject the sonne , and all to vvhom christ speaks , vvhich receives him not , shall be judged by the vvord vvhich he speaks , for he speaks eternally which shal stand eternally ; but when did he speake to thee ? for this i doe declare , thou maist have those words which he spoke , and yet never have heard his word nor voice ; as the pharisees had those words , which god spake by the prophets , but never had heard his word , nor seen his shape . john . . and thou saist quake and tremble at this ; that word which you reject and dispise shall judge you at the last day ; and saith , thus saith the lord , and brings christs words , and the apostles words ; i answer . the lord rebuke thee thou scorner , here thou hast made the filthynesse of thy heart knowne , for out of the abundance thereof thy mouth speaks : here thou art seen to be a scorner ; quaking and trembling we own , it is that which the holy men of god witnessed , but here be a witnesse against thy self , that thou art a scorner of their conditions : what hast thou to doe to talk of the scrip●ure , who art scorning that which it declares of ? here thou art made manifest to be one that hath the form but denies the power , and scornes at it ▪ god scornes thee , thou scornful one ; and let all that feare the lord depart from thee , and see thy filthinesse and search the scripture whether it testifies not of that , which thou scornes at , and makes a mock upon . and that we reject and despise the scripture and the words which christ spake , which thou accusest us of ; this is another lie , and a false slander , for the scriptures vve ovvne in their place , and by the spirit of god sets to seale that they are true , but that they shall judge the vvorld vvee doe deny ; and herein thy ignorance doth appear , and that thou art blinded by the god of this vorld , which thou vvould cast upon us : and christs vvords , and the vvords of the apostles shall fall upon thy own head , for vengeance in flames of fire will the lord render upon thee , thou lier and slanderer and false accuser , who art in disobedience to the gospel of god . and whereas thou saist the lord hath spoken it , and it shall surely come to passe , and bringst many scriptures , i ansvver . the scriptures vve ovvn and vvhat is spoken in them shall be fulfiled ; but thou lier when did god speake this to thee ? the judgements pronounced in them shall fall upon thy ovvn head , because thou art guilty of the same iniquities , as they vvere of , against vvhom these scriptures vvas declared ; and wheras thou saist we are those that the lord before hath spoken of in his vvord , ( and therefore no marvel vve vvould not have men to reade it ) and cites the . of peter . . chap. i ansvver . i doe in the presence of the living god deny thee & thy false assertion , but it shal stand for thy owne condition ; thou art one in the generation which christ spake of , and that vvas in the apostles dayes , which hath the forme , but denies the power as they had ; and i charge thee againe with a lie in thy mouth who saith , we would not have men to read the scriptures ; they who have heard us shall witnesse against , thee , that wee do direct to search the scripture , whether our doctrine be not true , and by the scripture shal our doctrine be tried ; how long wilt thou utter thy lies in the name of the lord ? the lord will plead with thee thou unclean lying spirit , and that which thou pronounces against us , shal come upon thy selfe ; and thou saiest we through covetousnesse make merchandize of some ; wee challenge thee and all the city of london to prove this , thou lying serpent , god shall plead with thee , wee are free and cleare in the sight of god , of thy false accusations , and have desired nor sought after no mans mony , nor gold , nor apparel , god is our witnesse , and many in this city knowes the same , though thou slanderingly an enemie of god doth accuse us ; but i challenge thee in thy reply to this , make it appear what thou assertest , or lay thy hand upon thy mouth , and let shame strike thee in the face for ever ; i charge thee that thou canst make appeare plainly in particular , and do not darkly accuse us , what those damnable heresies are , which we bring in , and wherein we deny the lord , and what our pernicious waies are which thou falsly and slanderously accuses us of , and wherein wee are fleshly and despise government , and are presumptuous , and wherein or how wee speake evil of dignities , and wherin we are as natural bruit beasts , and what these things are , wee speake evil of which wee know not , and what our swelling words of vanity are , and whom we do allure through the lusts of the flesh , and through much wantonness . in the presence of the lord i challenge thee to prove the particulars of thy accusations , and not to slander in the darke , though such as these there were in the apostles daies , who were turned out from the light , and the apostles which dwelt in the light saw them , and such a generation there is now , they are seene and known where they are , by them who abides in the light ; but of these thy false slanders ▪ upon us , we are cleare in the presence of the lord god , and that portion which thou wouldest give unto us must thou have thy self , for with what measure thou hast meted , it shal be measured to thee againe ; even the blaknesse of darknesse for ever , and the day of the vengeance of god is at hand against thee . and wheras thou saist , we pretend to tremble , it is true , we pretend the example of moses , and thou saist o abominable hypocrysie and dissimulation , will that justifie your shaking your hands like idiots , and your raving like mad men ? moses was a man in whom the fear and dread of the lord was , who kept his word , but you dispise it ; who loved the law , but you reject it . i answer . we doe not only pretend to tremble , but oft doe we , and have we witnessed it , by the mighty power and dread of the lord upon us , and we walke not by the example of the servants of the lord without us , but the same power we witnesse which was in them by which they were made to tremble ; vvhich thou scornes and derides at , and calles it madnesse : the holy men of god vvere counted by such as thou art , mad men ; and vvere cast out of their assemblies vvhich trembled at the vvord of the lord : but that vve despise the vvord and lavv of god , here thou art a lier againe ; and the plagues of god hang over thy head ▪ for thy lies and slanders against the innocent ; the same seare of god vvhich vvas in moses vve vvitness , and no other , and thou vvho art vvithout it art a heathen , and moses , and jeremiah , and habbakuk , which thou speaks of , were our example , who walked by the same spirit ; and served the lord by the same spirit , but that wee served our fleshly lusts ▪ which here again thou accusest us of ; i do challenge thee to prove it ; but i know thou canst not , and therefore art in the nature of the divel accusing the brethren ; and to walk by tradition , wee deny , which you also would lay to our charge ; but the same spirit by which they were acted , acts us the same way according to its measure ; and the same light which they walked in is our light , and this light is the light of christ within us and not without us : and whereas thou saiest its true , if wee served the lord , and kept his word , it would make us to tremble , as it doth those that fear him , but wee have rejected the law of the lord , and the word which hee hath spoken ; and the lord when he comes to shake terribly the earth , shal give us our portion in the lake that burnes . i answer . let all the world here take notice of thy confusion and ignorance which utters forth it selfe through thee ; thou before was scorning trembling , and now thou art approving of it ; and if it be they that tremble which serve the lord , here be a witnesse against thy selfe , thou serves him not , who art not yet come to tremble , but art in thy high nature above the fear of the lord ; and here againe thou art found a false accuser , for wee reject not the law of the lord , nor the word which hee hath spoken , but live in it , and rejoyces in it daily , for in it is our hearts delight ; and here againe , as thou hast measured to us , it shall be measured unto thee when the lord god arises to recompence his enemies ▪ thy portion will bee the same , as thou hast said in the lake which burnes with fire and brimstone . and now a few words in answer to that which thou calls a caution to all that are called saints in the nation , which may concerne all people . i answer . they who are saints who dwell in the light , and walkes in the light , doth discerne thee to be no saint , neither wil receive any caution from thee , but will testifie against thee , for thy lies and slanders and false accusations which thy booke is filled withall , and herein it may concerne all people that thy lies and slanders be reproved and laid open , lest they receive lies for thy truth , and be deceived by thy subtil speeches , who brings the prophets words , and the apostles words , wresting them and f●lsely applying them , to make thy lies to be received ; but all people who love the light wherewith christ hath enlightened them , will see thee and deny thee , and turne away from thee , as having the forme of godlinesse without the power . and whereas thou saiest ye may rejoyce that you live to see not only the mystery of godlynesse , but also the working of the mystery of iniquity in the fleshly corrupt and sensual minded men , called quakers . i answer . that name quakers was cast upon us by the heathen , through their scorne and derision , as the name christians was upon the disciples , though quaking wee own , for all the holy men of god witnessed it , and the holy scriptures declares of it ; and here againe thou enviously and maliciously hast cast a slander upon us , fleshly , corrupt ▪ and sensual mindednesse , and the working of the mystery of iniquity is destroyed in us by the mighty power of god made manifest in jesus christ , which takes away sin ; to the praise of the living god i speak , in clearing the innocent from thy false slanders , and it shall stand for thy owne condition , fleshly corrupt and sensuall minded , and the working of the mysterie of iniquity . and herein i prove thee to be so by thy fruits , thy lies , and false reproaches , and envious false acusation which is the fruites of the flesh and of corrupt sensuall mindednesse , which fruits doth appeare in this thy writing , and as for the mysterie of godlinesse , it is hidden from thee , and in that mind and nature you shall never know it , for thou lives in the sight of thy owne pollutions , and of thy carnal ordinances , and not in the injoyment of the mysterie of christ , which is godlinesse ; and whereas thou saiest , yee may rejoyce , and in nothing be terrified , because the scriptures did foretel of such , and is fulfilled in these men , and thou brings many scriptures where christ and the apostles prophesied of the coming in of false prophets and teachers : i answer , though yee do now rejoyce , yet your joy shall be turned into howling and sorrow , and the lord hath said it , and the day of terrour will overtake you , wherein your hearts shal faile you for feare , and your foundation shall be removed ; and it is true , that the scripture doth foretell of us , and is witnessed in us , that all the lords children should be taught of the lord , and that the lord would gather his flock out of the mouths of all dum be shepherds ▪ &c. and according to our growth up in the life of the scriptures , they are fulfilled in us ; but false prophets wee do deny , though all those scriptures which thou hast set downe we owne to be prophesies of false prophets , those false prophets which christ prophesied of , came in the apostles dayes , they saw them coming in then , . joh. . . and as all these scriptures testifies which thou hast cited ; and since the apostles daies , hath beene a great apostacie and not a true church of christ could be found , and ever since hath the same generation of false prophets stood under several forms and appearances , deceiving the nations : but now the pure light of christ shines , discovering to them who walke in the light who they are ; and daily more and more clearly shall they be seene , and thou wilt be found in their number , who art a cursed child , in whom the son of perdition is exalted , which utters forth thy lies and slanders sensually , and make it manifest to all , that thou hast not the spirit of god , but art separated from it , in self separation which is abomination unto god , and must be scattered by him : and whereas thou saiest , seeing it is so , let you be filled with boldnesse , and let you contend against those ungodly ones which are now risen ; i answer , ungodlinesse wee deny , and your boldnesse shall the lord turne in weaknesse , and faintnesse , and your contendings against us shall not prosper , for this is our heritage ; every tongue that riseth up in judgement shal be condemned ; you shall all be scattered and driven away as chaffe before the wind , who sets your selves to contend against the truth , for that which is now risen shall confound you all . and whereas thou brings many scriptures , which were exhortations of the apostle to the saints , with exhorting thy brethren . i answer . the scriptures i do owne , and that spirit which spake them forth i witnesse , but thou art an enemie to the power of them , though thou have the forme of truth ; thy lying and false accusing hath made thee appear to be an enemie to the life which the holy men of god lived in , and so hath cleared thy selfe from those scriptures which were written to the saints , and must owne those which was written to the world , the lier must be cast into the lake , the wicked must bee turned in hell , and such as these must thou owne to belong unto thee , and these are thy scriptures which thou hast right unto . and whereas thou saiest , wee talke of high enjoyments , and great revelations without , above , and beyond the scripture , and that wee talke of a light which is besides the scripture , but it is deepe , and thick darknesse ; and what hath such lights led men unto ? even contempt of god and of all righteousnesse . i answer . here again thou art found a lier , and an accuser of the brethren , for what wee do declare , the scripture witnesses to the same , and wee speake of nothing but what is declared of in the scripture by the holy men of god , and neither without it , nor above or beyond it do wee speake . i challenge thee to prove what thou hast asserted , and all the city of london ; that we speak or declares any thing but what the scriptures bears witnesse to the same , and the light which wee declare of , is the light of christ , which the scripture saith lightneth every one that comes into the world ; and it is not besides the scripture , so as contrary to it , but the scripture bears witnesse of the light ; and ●ere i charge thee with blasphemie , who calles the pure light of christ thick darknesse , and that the light of christ ( which is the light which wee declare of ) hath led men , or leads any to contemne god , or his ordinances , or righteousnesse , let shame strike thee in the face thou impudent one , who blasphemously say , that the light of christ is thick darkness , and leads into contempt of god ; let the light in thy owne conscience condemne thee , thou enemie of god ; for thy lies and slanders , and blasphemie which in this thy booke thou hast uttered : and wheras thou exhortest to labour to see an excellency in christ , in the word of christ , and in the church and ordinances of christ . i answer . for the simple ones sake , that they may not be deceived , none ever shall see any excellencie in those things , but who ownes and walkes in the light of christ , which lets every one see themselves first ; and your talking of the same , and report of christ , and of his word and ordinances , is not to know the excellencie of those things , for death in you talkes of the same , but the thing in subst●nce you are ignorant of ; and you who stumbles at the light wherewith christ lightneth every one , are above the doore which is the entrance unto the life of these things ; and so i exhort all to mind the light of christ , and to walk in it , and it will lead unto christ from whence the light comes , and it wil lead to the fulfilling of christs words and to the one bread ▪ and to the one baptisme , and the light is the door and entrance unto the life of those things : but you who hate the light and denies it to be in every one , hath but the huske and outward declaration of those things , and are without the life ▪ and wheras thou saist , they that are of god wil hear john , peter , and paul , and the rest that were the servants of christ , not the fleshly conceits of those or any other men & christs sheep hear his voice , and a strangerthey will not hear . i answer . they that are of god , do owne the writings of all the servants of christ ; but many may professe their words , as the pharisees did the prophets words , and as thou dost ▪ now , and yet not bee of god , but children to the divel ▪ but that our conceits are fleshly , i do deny thee , for all conceits of the flesh wee deny , and beares witnesse against , and it shall stand for thy owne condition , and thy voice is the voice of a stranger , and they that are of god will not follow it : though thou bring the saints words in thy mouth , as the divel did unto christ ; yet in the light of christ thou art seene ▪ and comprehended , and from the light of christ answered , and by it judged to be without the life of those scriptures which thou speaks of , and they are from thee but as an empty sound . and whereas thou cites many more scriptures , which are exhortations of the apostles to the church , and exhorts thy bretheren with them , to vvhich i ansvver as before . the scriptures i doe ovvne , but to thee thou envious man , they doe not belong , for as in this thy vvriting thou art proved a lier , and a scorner , and a slanderer , and a false accuser , and a blasphemer ; out of thy ovvne mouth , be a vvitnesse against thy selfe , and let all thy vvhole assembly beare vvitnesse against thee , that the scriptures vvhich vvere spoken to the saints vvho vvalked in the light and had denyed ungodliness , doth not belong unto thee vvho art an hater of the light and lives in the pollutions of the vvorld ; but the scriptures vvhich vvill surely be fulfilled upon thee , the wicked shal be turned into hel , and the lier shal have his portion in the lake , and he that works abomination is to be troden in the winepresse of the wrath of god without the city , and such like . and now somthing in answer to something in the epistle to the reader ; whereas thou and the rest of you there say , although the light hath appeared , yet there is a generation of men in the world , that doe hate the light , and endeavour to put it out , crying against the scriptures of truth ; it s a dead letter , and against the forme of doctrine therein contained ▪ to which i answer . it is true , the light hath appeared ; christ who is the light , lightneth every one that comes into the world ; which light hath appeared in every mans conscience ; and there is a generation which hates the light , and you are of that generation which say , every man hath not the light , and calls the light of christ thick darknesse , and endeavors to put it out ; and here you have read your owne condition though you make a large profession of the scriptures ( which is not the light , but words declared from the light ) as the jewes did professe the prophets words , but persecuted christ , and spoke against him , who was the light and substance of the prophets ▪ words : and if you know any who cries against the scripture , and against the doctrine therin contained with you , we cry and declare against such , for the scripture we owne in its place to be a true declaration of god , of christ , and of the saints conditions , but they are not the light , but christ is the light , as themselves bear witness , nor are they the saints guide , but he spirit that gave them forth , as they themselves bear testimony , neither was the scriptures given forth to give your own imaginations and suppositions upon , but they themselves are doctrine , and are as they speak , he that hath the same spirit which speaks them forth , reads them and understands them , and none else ; and whereas thou saist lest that simple , plaine meaning men should be kept in babels darkness , or the enlightned fall into the errour of the wicked , for that reason your book came to publick view ; i answer . truly you are deceived , who think to gaine into your form , the simple , plain meaning men by lies , and false slanders and false accusation ; who are simple and plain unto god , wil discern your deceits , and how falsly you have accused the innocent , and wil see you your selves to be in babels darkness , and who walks in the light wherwith they are lightned wil see you to be in the errour of the wicked and out of the truth ; and it is well for the truths sake , that your book came forth , that thereby your filthiness and deceitfulness , and enviousness might be laid open to the simple . and truly i say unto you , you have , and wil miss of your end in putting forth this book of yours ; and whereas you say you shall be willing at any time to vindicate every conclusion therein contained against any that shall oppose . i answer , i challenge you all in this particular to prove those accusations which you have laid to our charge whom you call quakers , in many particulars which before i have demanded ; what they are is before spoken of ; and whereas you say , you account that light within ( not witnessed by the scripture without ) which some so much talke of , to be deep darkness . i answer , if you know any who speake of any light which the scripture doth not witnesse of , we with you freely declares against such , and such a light is darkness , but the light of christ which we speak of , which hath lightned every one that cometh into the world , i hope you are not so impudent , but you wil acknowledge that the scriptures speaks of this light ; and dare not deny , but that the scripture witnesses that christ is the light of the world ; for as i said , we freely give way , and desires that all might search the scripture , whether these things be not so as we declare . and whereas you say , and exhort to let the scripture be the rule of faith and practice . i answ . here you would alwaies keep people in darkeness , under your teaching , and would make void the new covenant which is the law written in the heart , and the spirit of the lord put in the inward parts , to be the rule and guide of the saints , for who walkes by the rule without them , and teaches men so to do , would make void the covenant of life and peace , where the teacher is not removed into a corner , which teacher all that have faith and an holy conversation do witnesse , which teaches not contrary to what the scripture speaks , but is a teaching fulfilling of the scripture , and an establishing of it , though thou and many may professe the teaching of the scripture and may in your own wills , conform unto it in the outward appearance , as the pharisees did , and yet be but hypocrites and deceived as they were ; and i say againe , that faith was before the scripture was written , which faith is declared of in the scripture , which faith comes as is manifested by hearing of the word preached , which word is even in the mouth and in the heart ; if you have an ear you may hear ; & now i advise you all in the name of the lord to cease striving and contending against the truth , for verily the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands , will dash your image of many mixtures to peices , and it falling upon you , wil grinde you to powder , and your conforming the outward man , to an outward thing and teaching men so to doe , and limiting and tying the holy one to a visible thing , wil not cover you in the day of the lord : nay verily , though concerning the scripture without , you may walk blamelesse , yet one thing will be found lacking even the crosse of jesus christ , by which all sin is crucified in them who walks in it ; and i say unto you , that your covering is too narrow , and it will not hide your secret parts : for in the eternall light of christ you are seen and comprehended , your beginning , your time , and your end , for though you have the scriptures , and jewish like , walkes up in the outward appearance of them , crying the ordinances and churches are ye , yet your praise is of men , and not of god , for you are enemies to the life of the scriptures as is made appear by your many lies and slanders against us , which you have uttered ; and i say returen your minds every one within to that in your own consciences which reproves you in secret for your secret iniquities , it wil let you see where your hearts are , and how far they are mortified to the world , and the love of it , and this light wherewith every one of you is lightned is the light of christ , and it is the lords true witnesse and shall witnesse for him eternally against all whose deeds are evil , who walk in disobedience of it , and all who love it and walk in it , it leads unto christ , and into all purity and holinesse and uprightness of heart towards god and man ; and this light leads unto justification , all them who are taught by it ; and here is your teacher , loving it ; and your condemnation eternally , continuing to hate it . and thus i have answered your booke , and the truth is witnessed , and many false lies and false accusations denied and testified against , and thus i rest , waiting for an answer to clear your self ( if you be able ) of those things which i have denied from you , which you have charged upon us , for god is my witnesse , this i do desire , that truth may be made manifest and imbraced , and deceit and errour discovered and denied . truth and innocence vindicated in a survey of a discourse concerning ecclesiastical polity, and the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of religion. owen, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing o estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) truth and innocence vindicated in a survey of a discourse concerning ecclesiastical polity, and the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of religion. owen, john, - . [ ], p. : port. [s.n.], london : . written by john owen. cf. wing. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. imperfect: t.p. and port. lacking on filmed copy. the beginning to p. photographed from harvard copy and inserted at the beginning. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng parker, samuel, - . -- discourse of ecclesiastical politie. church polity -- early works to . freedom of religion -- great britain. church and state -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth and innocence vindicated : in a survey of a discourse concerning ecclesiastical polity ; and the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of religion . non partum studiis agimur ; sed sumsimus arma , consiliis innimica tuis , discordia vaecors . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 clemens alexand. london , printed . . review of the preface . among the many disadvantages , which those who plead in any sense for liberty of conscience are exposed unto , it is not the least , that in their arguings and pleas they are enforced to admit a supposition , that those whom they plead for , are indeed really mistaken in their apprehensions about the matters concerning which they yet desire to be indulged in their practice . for unless they will give place to such a supposition , or if they will rigidly contend that what they plead in the behalf of , is absolutely the truth , and that obedience thereunto , is the direct will and command of god , there remains no proper field for the debate about indulgence to be mannaged in . for things acknowledged to be such , are not capable of an indulgence properly so called ; because the utmost liberty that is necessary unto them , is their right and due in strict justice and law. men therefore in such discourses , speak not to the nature of the things themselves , but to the apprehensions of them with whom they have to do . but yet against this disadvantage every party which plead for themselves , are relieved by that secret reserve that they have in the perswasion of the truth and goodness of what they profess , and desire to be indulged in the practice of . and this also , as occasion doth offer it self , and in the defence of themselves from the charge of their adversaries , they openly contend and avow . neither was it judged formerly , that there was any way to deprive them of this reserve and relief , but by a direct and particular debate of the matters specially in difference , carried on unto their conviction by evidence of truth , managed from the common principles of it . but after tryal made , this way to convince men of their errors and mistakes , who stand in need of indulgence with respect unto the outward administration of the powers that they are under , is found , as it should seem , tedious , unreasonable , and ineffectual . a new way therefore to this purpose is fixed on , and it is earnestly pleaded , that there needs no other argument or medium to prove men to be mistaken in their apprehensions , and to miscarry in their practice of religious duties , than that at any time , or in any place they stand in need of indulgence . to dissent , at all adventures , is a crime ; and he whom others persecute , tacitly at least , confesseth himself guilty . for it is said , that the law of the magistrate being the sole rule of obedience in religious worship , their non-complyance with any law by him established , evidencing it self in their desire of exemption , is a sufficient conviction , yea a self-acknowledgement not only of their errors and mistakes in what they apprehend of their duty in these things , and of their miscarriages in what they practise , but also that themselves are persons turbulent and seditious in withdrawing obedience from the laws which are justly imposed on them . with what restrictions and limitations , or whether with any or no , these assertions are maintained , we shall afterward enquire . the management of this plea , ( if i greatly mistake him not ) is one of the principal designs of the author of that discourse , a brief survey whereof is here proposed , the principle which he proceeds herein upon , himself it seems knew to be novel and uncouth , and therefore thought it incumbent on him , that both the manner of its handling , and the other principles that he judged meet to associate with it , or annex unto it , should be of the same kind and complexion . this design hath at length produced us this discourse ; which of what use it may prove to the church of god , what tendency it may have to retrive or promote love and peace among christians , i know not . this i know , that it hath filled many persons of all sorts with manifold surprizals , and some with amazement . i have therefore on sundry considerations , prevailed with my self much against my inclinations , for the sake of truth and peace , to spend a few hours in the examination of the principal parts and seeming pillars of the whole fabrick . and this i was in my own mind the more easily indueed unto , because there is no concernment either of the church or state in the things here under debate , unless it be , that they should be vindicated from having any concern in the things and opinions here pleaded and argued . for as to the present church , if the principles and reasonings here maintained and managed , are agreeable unto her sentiments , and allowed by her ; yet there can be no offence given in their examination , because she hath no where yet declared them so to be . and the truth is , if they are once owned and espoused by her , to the ends for which they are asserted , as the christians of old triumphed in the thoughts of him , who first engaged in wayes of violence against them among the nations in the world , so the non-conformists will have no small relief to their minds in their sufferings , when they understand these to be the avowed principles and grounds , on which they are to be persecuted and destroyed . and for the power of ecclesiastical jurisdiction belonging to the kings of this nation , as it hath been claimed and exercised by them in all ages since the establishment of christian religion among us , as it is declared in the laws , statutes , and customs of the kingdom , and prescribed unto an acknowledgement in the oaths of allegiance and supremacy , it and steddiness of expression , which we shall be farther accustomed unto . but in what here he avers of himself , he seems to have the advantage of our lord jesus christ , who upon less provocations than he hath undertaken the consideration of ( for the pharisees with whom he had to deal , were gentlemen be tells us , unto those with whom himself hath to do ) as he saith , fell into an hot fit of zeal , yea , into an height of impatience , which made him act with a seeming fury , and transport of passion , pag. . and if that be indeed his temper which he commends in himself , he seems to me to be obliged for it unto his constitution and complexion , as he speaks , and not to his age ; seeing his juvenile expressions and confidence , will not allow us to think that he suffers under any defervescency of spirit by his years . the philosopher tells us , that old men in matters dubious and weighty , are not over-forward to be positive , but ready to cry , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , perhaps , and it may be so , and this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because they have experience of the uncertainty of things in this world . as indeed those who know what entanglements all humane affairs are attended withal , what appearing causes and probable reasons are to be considered and examined about them , and how all rational determinations are guided and influenced by unforeseen emergencies and occasions , will not be over-forward to pronounce absolutely and peremptorily about the disposal of important affairs . but as the same author informs us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; young men suppose that they know all things , and are vehement in their asseverations ; from which frame proceed all those dogmatical assertions of what is politick , and impolitick in princes , of what will establish or ruine governments , with the contempt of the conceptions of others about things conducing to publick peace and tranquility , which so frequently occur in our author . this makes him smile at as serious consultations for the furtherance of the welfare and prosperity of this nation , as it may be in any age , or juncture of time have been upon the wheel , preface p. . these considerations made it seem to me , that in an ordinary course , he hath time enough before him to improve the notions he hath here blessed the world with a discovery of ; if upon second thoughts he be equally enamoured of them unto what now he seems to be . i could indeed have desired , that he had given us a more clear account of that religion which in his judgement he doth most approve . his commendation of the church of england , sufficiently manifesteth his interest to lye therein ; and that in pursuit of his own principles he doth outwardly observe the institutions and prescriptions of it . but the scheme he hath given us of religion , or religious duties , wherein there is mention neither of sin , nor a redeemer , without which no man can entertain any one true notion of christian religion , would rather bespeak him a philosopher , than a christian. it is not unlikely , but that he will pretend he was treating of religion , as religion in general , without an application of it to this or that in particular ; but to speak of religion as it is among men in this world , or ever was since the fall of adam , without a supposition of sin , and the way of a relief from the event of it mentioned , is to talk of chimaera's , things that neither are , ever were , or will be . on the other hand the profit and advantage of his design falls clearly on the papal interest . for whereas it is framed and contrived for the advantage , security , and unquestionableness of absolute complyers with the present possessors of power , it is evident , that in the states of europe , the advantage lyes incomparably on that hand . but these things are not our concernment . the design which he manageth in his discourse , the subject matter of it , the manner how he treats those with whom he hath to do , and deports himself therein , are by himself exposed to the judgement of all , and are here to be taken into some examination . now because we have in his preface a perfect representation of the things last mentioned throughout the whole , i shall in the first place take a general view and prospect of it . and here i must have regard to the judgement of others . i confess for my own part i do not find my self at all concerned in those invectives , tart and upbraiding expressions , those sharp and twinging satyrs against his adversaries , which he avoweth or rather boasteth himself to have used . if this unparalleld heap of revilings , scoffings , despightful reproaches , sarcasms , scornful contemptuous expressions , false criminations , with frequent intimations of sanguinary affections towards them , do please his fancy , and express his morality to his own satisfaction , i shall never complain that he hath used his liberty ; and do presume that he judgeth it not meet that it should be restrained . it is far from my purpose to return him any answer in the like manner to these things ; to do it — opus est mangone perito qui smithfieldenst polleat eloquio : yet some instances of prodigious excesses in this kind , will in our process be reflected on . and it may be the repetition of them may make an appearance unto some less considerate readers , of a little harshness in some passages of this return . but as nothing of that nature in the least is intended , nothing that might provoke the author in his own spirit , were he capable of any hot impressions , nothing to disadvantage him in his reputation or esteem , so what is spoken being duly weighed , will be found to have nothing sharp or unpleasant in it , but what is unavoidably infused into it from the discourse it self , in its approach unto it to make a representation of it . it is of more concernment to consider with what frame and temper of spirit he manageth his whole cause and debate ; and this is such as that a man who knows nothing of him , but what he learns from this discourse , would suppose that he hath been some great commander , in campis gurgustidoniis vbi bombamachides cluninstaridys archides erat imperator summus ; neptuni nepos , associate unto him , who with his breath blew away and scattered all the legions of his enemies , as the wind doth leaves in autumn . such confidence in himself and his own strength , such contempt of all his adversaries , as persons silly , ignorant , illiterate , such boastings of his atchievments , with such a face and appearance of scorning all that shall rise up against him ; such expressions animi gladiatorii doth he march withall , as no man sure will be willing to stand in his way , unless he think himself to have lived , at least quietly , long enough . only some things there are , which i cannot but admire in his undertaking and management of it ; as first , that such a man of arms and art as he is , should harness himself with so much preparation , and enter the lists with so much pomp and glory , to combat such pittiful poor baffled ignoramus's as he hath chosen to contend withall ; especially con●idering that he knew he had them bound hand and foot , and cast under his strokes at his pleasure . methinks it had more become him , to have sought out some giant in reason and learning , that might have given him at least par animo periculum , as alexander said in his conflict with porus , a danger big enough to exercise his courage , though through mistake it should in the issue have proved but a wind-mill . again ! i know not whence it is , nor by what rules of errantry it may be warranted , that being to conflict such pittiful trifles , he should before he come near to touch them , thunder out such terrible words , and load them with so many reproaches and contemptuous revilings , as if he designed to scare them out of the lists , that there might be no tryal of his strength , nor exercise of his skill . but leaving him to his own choice and liberty in these matters , i am yet perswaded that if he knew how little his adversaries esteem themselves concerned in , or worsted by his revilings , how small advantage he hath brought unto the cause managed by him , with what severity of censures , that i say not indignation , his proceedings herein are reflected on by persons sober and learned , who have any respect to modesty or sobriety , or any reverence for the things of god , as debated among men , he would abate somewhat of that self-delight and satisfaction which he seems to take in his achievement . neither is it in the matter of dissent alone from the established forms of worship , that this author , and some others , endeavour by their revilings and scoffings to expose non-conformists to scorn and violence ; but a semblance at least is made of the like reflections on their whole profession of the gospel , and their worship of god ; yea these are the special subjects of those swelling words of contempt , those farcastical invidious representations of what they oppose , which they seem to place their confidence of success in ; but what do they think to effect by this course of proceedure ? do they suppose that by crying out canting , phrases , silly , non-sense , metaphors , they shall shame the non-conformists out of the profession of the gospel , or make them foregoe the course of their ministry , or alienate one soul from the truth taught and profest amongst them ? they know how their predecessours in the faith thereof , have been formerly entertained in the world : st. paul himself falling among the gentlemen philosophers of those dayes was termed by them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a babler , or one that canted ; his doctrine despised as silly and foolish , and his phrase's pretended to be unintelligible . these things move not the non-conformists , unless it be to a compassion for them whom they fee to press their wits and parts to so wretched an employment . if they have any thing to charge on them with respect to gospel-truths , as that they own , teach , preach , or publish any doctrines , or opinions that are not agreeable thereunto , and doctrine of the antient , and late ( reformed ) churches , let them come forth , if they are men of learning , reading , and ingenuity , and in wayes used and approved from the beginning of christianity for such ends and purposes , endeavour their confutation and conviction ; let them i say with the skill and confidence of men , and according to all rules of method and art , state the matters in difference between themselves and their adversaries , confirm their own judgements with such reasons and arguments as they think pleadable in their behalf , and oppose the opinions they condemn with testimonies and reasons suited to their eversion . the course at present steered and engaged in , to carpe at phrases , expressions , manners of the declaration of mens conceptions , collected from , or falsly fathered upon particular persons , thence intimated to be common to the whole party of non-conformists ( the greatest guilt of some whereof , it may be is only their too near approach to the expressions used in the scripture to the same purpose , and the evidence of their being educed from thence ) is unmanly , unbecoming persons of any philosophick generosity , much more christians and ministers ; nay some of the things or sayings reflected on , and carped at by a late author , are such , as those who have used or asserted them , dare modestly challenge him in their defence to make good his charge in a personal conference , provided it may be scholastical , or logical , not dramatick or romantick . and surely were it not for their confidence in that tame and patient humour , which this author so tramples upon , p. . they could not but fear that some or other by these disingenuous proceedings might be provoked to a recrimination , and to give in a charge against the cursed oaths , debaucheries , profaneness , various immoralities , and sottish ignorance , that are openly and notoriously known to have taken up their residence among some of those persons , whom the railleries of this and some other authors are designed to countenance and secure . because we may not concern our selves again in things of this nature , let us take an instance or two of the manner of the dealing of our author with non-conformists , and those as to their preaching and praying , which of all things they are principally maligned about ; for their preaching he thus sets it out , p. . whoever among them can invent any new language presently sets up for a man of new discoveries , and he that lights upon the prettyest non-sense , is thought by the ignorant rabble to unfold new gospel mysteries , and thus is the nation shattered into infinite factions with senseless and phantastick phrases ; and the most fatal miscarriage of them all lyes in abusing scripture expressions , not only without , but in contradiction to their sense ; so that had we but an act of parliament to abridge preachers the use of fulsome and luscious metaphors , it might perhaps be an effectual cure of all our present distempers . let not the reader smile at the oddness of the proposal ; for were men obliged to speak sense as well as truth , all the swelling mysteries of phanaticism would then sink into flat and empty non-sense ; and they would be ashamed of such jejune and ridioulous stuff as their admired and most profound nations would appear to be . certainly there are few who read these expressions that can retain themselves from smiling at the pittiful phantastick souls that are here characterized ; or from loathing their way of preaching here represented . but yet if any should by a surprizal indulge themselves herein , and one should seriously enquire what it is that stirred those humours in them , it may be they could scarce return a rational account of their commotions : for when they have done their utmost to countenance themselves in their scorn and derision , they have nothing but the bare assertions of this author for the proof of what is here charged on those whom they deride ; and how if these things are most of them , if not all of them absolutely false ? how if he be not able to prove any of them by any considerable avowed instance ? how if all the things intended whether they be so or no as here represented , depend meerly on the judgement and fancy of this author , and it should prove in the issue that they are no such rules , measures , or standards of mens rational expressions of their conceptions , but that they may be justly appealed from ? and how if sundry things so odiously here expressed , be proved to have been sober truths declared in words of wisdom and sobriety ? what if the things condemned as fulsome metaphors prove to be scriptural expressions of gospel mysteries ? what if the principal doctrines of the gospel about the grace of god , the mediation of christ , of faith , justification , gospel-obedience , communion with god , and union with christ , are esteemed and stigmatized by some as swelling mysteries of fanaticism ; and the whole work of our redemption by the blood of christ as expressed in the scripture , be deemed metaphorical ? in brief , what if all this discourse concerning the preachings of non-conformists be , as unto the sense of the words here used , false , and the crimes in them injuriously charged upon them ? what if the metaphors they are charged with , are no other but their expression of gospel mysteries not in the words which mans wisdom teacheth , but which the holy-ghost teacheth , comparing spiritual things with spiritual ? as these things may and will be made evident when particulars shall be instanced in . when i say these things are discovered and laid open , there will be a composure possibly of those affections and disdainful thoughts , which these swelling words may have moved in weak and unexperienced minds . it may be also it will appear that upon a due consideration , there will be little subject matter remaining to be enacted in that law or act of parliament which he moves for ; unless it be from that uncouth motion that men may be obliged to speak sense as well as truth ; seeing hitherto it hath been supposed that every proposition that is either true or false , hath a proper and determinate sense ; and if sense it have not , it can be neither . i shall only crave leave to say , that as to the doctrine which they preach , and the manner of their preaching , or the way of expressing those doctrines or truths which they believe and teach , the non-conformists appeal from the rash , false , and invidious charge of this author , to the judgement of all learned , judicious and pious men in the world ; and are ready to defend them against himself , and whosoever he shall take to be his patrons or his associates , before any equal , competent , and impartial tribunal under heaven . it is far from me to undertake the absolute defence of any party of men , or of any man because he is of any party whatever ; much less shall i do so of all the individual persons of any party , and least of all , as to all their expressions , private opinions , and peculiar ways of declaring them , which too much abound among persons of all sorts . i know there is no party , but have weak men belonging to it ; nor any men amongst them but have their weaknesses , failings and mistakes . and if there are none such in the churcb of england , i mean those that universally comply with all the observances at present used therein , i am sure enough that there are so amongst all other parties that dissent from it . but such as these are not principally intended in these aspersio●s : nor would their adversaries much rejoyce to have them known to be , and esteemed of all what they are . but it is others whom they aim to expose unto contempt ; and in the behalf of them , not the mistakes , misapprehensions , or undue expressions of any private persons , these things are pleaded . but let us see , if their prayers meet with any better entertainment ; an account of his thoughts about them he gives us , p. . it is the most solemn strain of their devotion to vilifie themselves with large confessions of the hainousest and most aggravated sins : they will freely acknowledge their offences against all the commands , and that with the foulest and most enhancing circumstances ; they can rake together , and confess their injustice , uncleanness and extortion , and all the publican and harlot sins in the world ; in brief , in all their confessions , they stick not to charge themselves with such large catalogues of sin , and to amass together such as heap of impieties , as would make up the compleatest character of lewdness and villany ; and if their consciences do really arraign them of all those crimes whereof they so familiarly indite themselves , there are no such guilty and unpardonable wretches as they : so that their confessions are either true or false ; if false , then they fool and trifle with the almighty ; if true , then i could easily tell them the fittest place to say their prayers in . i confess this passage at its first perusal surprized me with some amazement . it was unexpected to me , that he who designed all along to charge his adversaries with pharisaism , and to render them like unto them , should instance in their confession of sin in their prayers , when it is even a characteristical note of the pharisees , that in their prayers they made no confession of sin at all . but it was far more strange to me , that any man durst undertake the reproaching of poor sinners with the deepest acknowledgement of their sins before the holy god , that they are capable to conceive or utter . is this , thought i , the spirit of the men with whom the non-conformists do contend , and upon whose instance alone they suffer ? are these their apprehensions concerning god , sin , themselves and others ? is this the spirit wherewith the children of the church are acted ? are these things suited to the principles , doctrines , practices of the church of england ? such reproaches and reflections indeed , might have been justly expected from those poor deluded souls , who dream themselves perfect and free from sin ; but to meet with such a treaty from them who say or sing , o god the father of heaven , have mercy upon us miserable sinners , at least three times a week , was some surprizal . however i am sure , the non-conformists need return no other answer to them who reproach them for vilifying themselves in their confessions to god , but that of david to michal , it is before the lord , and we will yet be more vile than thus , and will be base in our own sight . our author makes no small stir with the pretended censures of some whom he opposes ; namely , that they should esteem themselves and their party to be the elect of god , all others to be reprobates , themselves and theirs to be godly , and all others ungodly ; wherein i am satisfied , that he unduely chargeth those whom he intends to reflect upon : however i am none of them ; i do not judge any party to be all the elect of god , or all the elect of god to be confined unto any party ; i judge no man living to be a reprobate , though i doubt not but that there are living men in that condition ; i confine not holiness or godliness to any party ; not to the church of england , nor to any of those who dissent from it ; but am perswaded that in all societies of christians that are under heaven that hold the head , there are some really fearing god , working righteousness , and accepted with him . but yet neither my own judgement , nor the reflections of this author , can restrain me from professing that i fear that he who can thus trample upon men , scoff at and deride them for the deepest confessions of their sins before god , which they are capable of making , is scarce either well acquainted with the holiness of god , the evil of sin , or the deceitfulness of his own heart , or did not in his so doing , take them into sufficient consideration . the church of england it self requires its children to acknowledge their manifold sins and wickednesses , which from time to time they have grievously committed by thought , word and deed , against the divine majesty ; and what in general , others can confess more , i know not . if men that are through the light of gods spirit and grace , brought to an acquaintance with the deceitful workings of sin in their own hearts , and the hearts of others , considering aright the terror of the lord , and the manifold aggravations wherewith all their sins are attended , do more particularly express these things before , and to the lord , when indeed nor they , nor any other can declare the thousandth part of the vileness and unworthiness of sin and sinners on the account thereof , shall they be now despised for it , and judged to be men meet to be hanged ? if this author had but seriously perused the confessions of austin , and considered how he traces his sin from his nature in the womb , through the cradle , into the whole course of his life , with his marvellous and truly ingenious acknowledgements and aggravations of it , perhaps the reverence of so great a name might have caused him to suspend this rash , and i fear , impious discourse . for the particular instances wherewith he would countenance his sentiments and censures in this matter , there is no difficulty in their removal . our lord jesus christ hath taught us , to call the most secret workings of sin in the heart , though resisted , though controlled , and never suffered to bring forth , by the names of those sins which they lye in a tendency unto ; and men in their confessions respect more the pravity of their natures , and the inward working and actings of sin , than the outward perpetrations of it , wherein perhaps they may have little concernment in the world ; as job who pleaded his uprightness , integrity , and righteousness against the charge of all his friends , yet when he came to deal with god , he could take that prospect of his nature and heart , as to vilifie himself before him , yea to abhor himself in dust and ashes . again , ministers who are the mouths of the congregation to god , may , and ought to acknowledge , not only the sins whereof themselves are personally guilty , but those also which they judge may be upon any of the congregation . this assuming of the persons of them to whom they speak , or in whose name they speak , is usual even to the sacred writers themselves . so speaks the apostle peter , epist. . . for the time past of our lives may suffice us , to have wrought the will of the gentiles , when we walked in lasciviousness , lusts , excess of wine , revellings , banquetings and abominable idolatries . he puts himself amongst them , although the time past of his life in particular was remote enough from being spent in the manner there described : and so it may be with ministers when they confess the sins of the whole congregation . and the dilemma of this author about the truth or falshood of these confessions , will fall as heavy on st. paul as on any non-conformist in the world . for besides the acknowledgement that he makes of the former sins of his life when he was injurious , a blasphemer , and persecutor , ( which sins i pray god deliver others from ) and the secret working of in-dwelling sin , which he cryes out in his present condition to be freed from ; he also when an apostle professeth himself the chiefest of sinners ; now this was either true , or it was not ; if it was not true , god was mocked ; if it were , our author could have directed him to the fittest place to have made his acknowledgements in . what thinks he of the confessions of ezra , of daniel and others in the name of the whole people of god ? of david concerning himself , whose self-abasements before the lord , acknowledgements of the guilt of sin in all its aggravations and effects , far exceed any thing that non-conformists are able to express . as to his instances of the confession of injustice , uncleanness , and extortion , it may be as to the first and last , he would be put to it to make it good by express particulars ; and i wish it be not found that some have need to confess them , who cry at present , they are not as these publicans . vncleanness seems to bear the worst sound , and to lead the mind to the worst apprehensions of all the rest ; but it is god with whom men have to do in their confessions ; and before him , what is man that he should be clean , and he that is born of a woman , that he should be righteous ? behold he putteth no trust in his saints , and the heavens are not clean in his sight , and how much more abominable and filthy is man , who drinketh in iniquity like water , job . . and the whole church of god in their confession cry out , we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy raggs , isa. . there is a pollution of flesh and spirit , which we are still to be cleansing our selves from whilst we are in this world . but to what purpose is it to contend about these things ? i look upon this discourse of our author as a signal instance of the power of prejudice and passions over the minds of men . for setting aside the consideration of a present influence from them , i cannot believe that any one that professeth the religion taught by jesus christ , and contained in the scripture , can be so ignorant of the terror of the lord , so unaccustomed to thoughts of his infinite purity , severity and holiness , such a stranger to the accuracy , spirituality , and universality of the law , so unacquainted with the sin of nature , and the hidden deceitful workings of it in the hearts , minds and affections of men , so senseless of the great guilt of the least sin , and the manifold inexpressible aggravations wherewith it is attended , so unexercised to that self-abasement and abhorrency which becomes poor sinners in their approaches to the holy god , when they consider what they are in themselves , so disrespective of the price of redemption that was paid for our sins , and the mysterious way of cleansing our souls from them by the blood of the son of god , as to revile , despise and scoff at men for the deepest humblings of their souls before god , in the most searching and expressive acknowledgements of their sins , that they do or can make at any time . the like account may be given of all the charges that this author man●ageth against the men of his indignation ; but i shall return at present to the preface under consideration . in the entrance of his discourse , being as it seems conscious to himself of a strange and wild intemperance of speech in reviling his adversaries , which he had either used , or intended so to do , he pleads sundry things in his excuse or for his justification . hereof the first is , his zeal for the reformation of the church of england , and the settlement thereof with its forms and institutions ; these he saith are countenanced by the best and purest times of christianity , and established by the fundamental laws of this land ; ( which yet as to the things in contest between him and non conformists i greatly doubt of , as not believing any fundamental law of this land to be of so late a date , ) to see this opposed by a wild and fanatick rabble , rifled by folly and ignorance , on slender and frivolous pretences so often and so shamefully baffled , yet again revived by the pride and ignorance of a few peevish , ignorant and malepert preachers , brainsick people , ( all which gentle and peaceable expressions are crowded together in the compass of a few lines ) is that which hath chased him into this heat and briskness ; if this be not to deal with gain-sayers in a spirit of meekness , if herein there be not an observation of the rules of speaking evil of no man , despising no man , of not saying racha to our brother , or calling of him fool ; if here be not a discovery how remote he is from self-conceit , elation of mind , and the like immoralities , we must make enquiry after such things elsewhere ; for in this whole ensuing treatise we shall scarce meet with any thing more tending to our satisfaction . for the plea it self made use of , those whom he so tramples on , do highly honor the reformation of the church of england , and bless god for it continually , as that which hath had a signal tendency unto his glory , and usefulness to the souls of men . that as to the outward rites of worship and discipline contested about , it was in all things conformed unto the great rule of them , our author doth not pretend ; nor can he procure it in those things , whatever he sayes , any countenance from the best and purest times of christianity : that it was every way perfect in its first edition , i suppose , will not be affirmed ; nor considering the posture of affairs at the time of its framing both in other nations and in our own , was it like it should so be . we may rather admire that so much was then done according to the will of god , than that there was no more . whatever is wanting in it , the fault is not to be cast on the first reformers , who went as far as well in those dayes could be expected from them . whether others who have succeeded in their place and room , have since discharged their duty in perfecting what was so happily begun , is sub judice , and there will abide , after this author and i have done writing . that as to the things mentioned , it never had an absolute quiet possession or admittance in this nation , that a constant and no inconsiderable suffrage hath from first to last been given in against it , cannot be denyed ; and for any savage worrying or rifling of it at present , no man is so barbarous as to give the least countenance to any such thing . that which is intended in these exclamations , is only a desire that those who cannot comply with it as now established in the matters of discipline and worship before mentioned , may not meerly for that cause be worried and destroyed , as many have already been . again , the chief glory of the english reformation consisted in the purity of its doctrine , then first restored to the nation . this , as it is expressed in the articles of religion , and in the publickly authorized writings of the bishops and chief divines of the church of england , is , as was said , the glory of the english reformation . and it is somewhat strange to me , that whilst one writes against original sin , another preaches up justification by works , and scoffs at the imputation of the righteousness of christ to them that believe ; yea whilst some can openly dispute against the doctrine of the trinity , the deity of christ , and the holy ghost ; whilst instances may be collected of some mens impeaching all the articles almost throughout , there should be no reflection in the least on these things ; only those who dissent from some outward methods of worship must be made the object of all this wrath and indignation . quis tulerit gracehos de seditione querentes ? some mens guilt in this nature , might rather mind them of pulling out the be am out of their own eyes , than to act with such fury to pull out the eyes of others , for the motes which they think they espy in them . but hence is occasion given to pour out such a storm of fury , conveyed by words of as great reproach and scorn , as the invention of any man i think could suggest , as is not lightly to be met withal : might our author be prevailed with to mind the old rule , mitte malè loqui , dic rem ipsam , these things might certainly be debated with less scandal , less mutual offences and provocations . anothor account of the reasons of his intemperance in these reproaches , supplying him with an opportunity to encrease them in number and weight , he gives us pag. . & . of his preface , which because it may well be esteemed a summary representation of his way and manner of arguing in his whole discourse , i shall transcribe . i know , sayes he , but one single instance in which zeal or a high indignation is just and warrantable : and that is when it vents it self against the arrogance of haughty peevish and sullen religionists , that under higher pretences of godliness supplant all principles of civility and good nature ; that strip religion of its outside to make it a covering for spight and malice ; that adorn their peevishness with a mark of piety , and shrowd their ill nature under the demure pretences of godly zeal , and stroke and applaud themselves as the only darlings and favourites of heaven ; and with a scornfull pride disdained all the residue of mankind as a rout of worthless and unregenerate reprobates . thus the only hot fit of zeal we find our saviour in , was kindled by an indignation against the pride and insolence of the jews , when he whipped the buyers and sellers out of the outward court of the temple ; for though they bore a blind and superstitious reverence towards that part of it that was peculiar to their own worship , yet as for the outward court , the place where the gentiles and proselytes worshipped , that was so unelean and unhallowed , that they thought it could not be profaned by being turned into an exchange of vsury : now this insolent contempt of the gentiles , and impudent conceit of their own holiness , provoked the mild spirit of our blessed saviour to such an height of impatience and indignation , as made him with a seeming fury and transport of passion whip the tradesmen thence , and overthrew their tables . what truth , candor , or conscience hath been attended unto in the insolent reproaches here heaped up against his adversaries , is left to the judgement of god and all impartial men ; yea let judgement be made , and sentence be past according to the wayes , course of life , conversation , usefulness amongst men , readiness to serve the common concerns of mankind , in exercising lovingkindness in the earth , of those who are thus injuriously traduced , compared with any in the approbation and commendation of whom they are covered with these reproaches , and there lives not that person who may not be admitted to pronounce concerning the equity and righteousness or iniquity of these intemperances . however it is nothing with them with whom he hath to do to be judged by mans day ; they stand at the judgement seat of christ , and have not so learned him as to relieve themselves by false or fierce recriminations . the measure of the covering provided for all these excesses of unbridled passion , is that alone which is now to be taken . the case expressed it seems is the only single instance in which zeal is just and warrantable . how our author came to be assured thereof i know not ; sure i am that it doth neither comprize in it , nor hath any aspect on , the ground , occasion , or nature of the zeal of phinehas , or of nehemiah , or of david , or of joshuah , and least of all of our saviour as we shall see . he must needs be thought to be over-intent upon his present occasion , when he forgot not one , or two , but indeed all instances of just and warrantable zeal that are given us in the only sacred repository of them . for what concerns the example of our blessed saviour particularly insisted on , i wish he had ossended one way only in the report he makes of it . for let any sober man judge in the first place , whether those expressions he useth of the hot fit of zeal , that he was in , of the height of impatience that he was provoked unto , the seeming fury and transport of passion that he acted withall , do become that reverence and adoration of the son of god which ought to possess the hearts , and guide the tongues and writings of men that profess his name . but whatever other mens apprehensions may be , as it is not improbable but that some will exercise severity in their reflections on these expressions ; for my part ; i shall entertain no other thoughts but that our author being engaged in the composition of an invective declamation , and aiming at a gradeur of words , yea to fill it up with tragical expressions , could not restrain his pen from some extravagant excess , when the lord christ himself came in his way to be spoken of . however it will be said the instance is pertinently alledged , and the occasion of the exercise of the zeal of our blessed saviour is duly represented . it may be some will think so , but the truth is , there are scarce more lines than mistakes in the whole discourse to this purpose . what court it was of the temple wherein the action remembred was performed , is not here particularly determined ; only 't is said to be the outward court wherein the gentiles and proselytes worshipped in opposition to that which was peculiar to the worship of the jews . now of old from the first erection of the temple there were two courts belonging unto it and no more ; the inward court , wherein were the brazen altar with all those utensils of worship which the priests made use of in their sacred offices ; and the outward court whither the people assembled , as for other devotions , so to behold the priests exercising their function , and to be in a readiness to bring in their own especial sacrifices , upon which account they were admitted to the altar it self . into this outward court which was a dedicate part of the temple , all gentiles who were proselytes of righteousness , that is who being circumeised had taken upon them the observation of the law of moses , and thereby joyned themselves to the people of god , were admitted , as all the jewish writers agrree . and these were all the courts that were at first sanctified , and were in use when the words were spoken by the prophet , which are applyed to the action of our saviour ; namely , my house shall be called a house of prayer , but ye have made it a den of thieves ; afterwards in the dayes of the herodians another court was added by the immuring of the remainder of the hill , whereunto a promiscuous entrance was granted unto all people . it was therefore the antient outward court whereinto the jews thought that paul had brought trophimus the ephesian , whom they knew to be uncircumcised . i confess some expositors think that it was this latter area from whence the lord christ east out the buyers and sellers ; but their conjecture seems to be altogether groundless ; for neither was that court ever absolutely called the temple , nor was it esteemed sacred , but common or prophane ; nor was it in being when the prophet used the words mentioned concerning the temple . it was therefore the other antient outward court common to the jews and proselytes of the gentiles that is intended ; for as there the salt and wood were stored , that were daily used in their sacrifices , so the covetous priests knowing that many who came up to offer , were wont to buy the beasts they sacrificed at hierusalem to prevent the charge and labour of bringing them from farr ; to further as they pretended their accommodation , they appropriated a market to themselves in this court , and added a trade in money , relating it may be thereunto , and other things for their advantage . hence the lord christ twice drove them ; once at the beginning , and once at the end of his ministry in the flesh ; not with a seeming transport of fury , but with that evidence of the presence of god with him , and majesty of god upon him , that it is usually reckoned amongst one of the miracles that he wrought , considering the state of all things at that time amongst the jews . and the reason why he did this , and the occasion of the exercise of his zeal , is so express in the scripture , as i cannot but admire at the invention of our author , who could find out another reason and occasion of it . for it is said directly , that he did it because of their wicked profanation of the house of god , contrary to his express institution and command ; of a regard to the jews contempt of the gentiles there is not one word , not the least intimation ; nor was there in this matter the least occasion of any such thing . these things are not pleaded in the least , to give countenance to any , in their proud supercillious censures and contempt of others , wherein if any person living have out-done our author , or shall endeavour so to do , he will not fail i think to carry away the prize in this unworthy contest . nor is it to apologize for them whom he charges with extravagances and excesses in this kind . i have no more to say in their behalf , but that as far as i know , they are falsly accused and calumniated , though i will not be accountable for the expessions of every weak and impertinent person . where men indeed sin openly in all manner of transgressions against the law and gospel , where a spirit of enmity to holiness and obedience unto god discovers and acts it self constantly on all occasions ; in a word , where men wear sin 's livery , some are not afraid to think them sin 's servants . but as to that elation of mind in self-conceit wherewith they are charged , their contempt of other men upon the account of party which he imputes unto them , i must expect other proofs than the bare assertion of this author before , i shall joyn with him in the management of his accusation . and no other answer shall i return to the ensuing leaves , fraught with bitter reproaches , invectives , sarcasms , far enough distant from truth and all sobriety . nor shall i though in their just and necessary vindication , make mention of any of those things which might represent them persons of another complexion . if this author will give those whom he probably most aims to load with these aspersions , leave to confess themselves poor and miserable sinners in the sight of god , willing to bear his indignation against whom they have finned , and to undergo quietly the severest rebukes and revilings of men , in that they know not but that they have a providential permissive commission from god so to deal with them , and add thereunto , that they yet hope to be saved by jesus christ , and in that hope endeavour to give up themselves in obedience to all his commands , it contains that description of them which they shall alwayes , and in all conditions endeavour to answer . but i have only given these remarks upon the preceding discourse , to discover upon what feeble grounds our author builds for his own justification in his present engagement . pag. . of his preface , he declares his original design in writing this discourse , which was to represent to the world the lamentable folly and silliness of those mens religion with whom he had to do , which he farther expresses and pursues with such a lurry of virulent reproaches as i think is not to be parallel'd in any leaves , but some others of the same hand ; and in the close thereof he supposeth he hath evinced that in comparison of them , the most insolent of the pharisees were gentlemen , and the most savage of the americans philosophers . i must confess my self an utter stranger unto that generous disposition and philosophick nobleness of mind , which vent themselves in such revengefull scornfull wrath , expressed in such rude and barbarous railings against any sort of men whatever , as that here manifested in , and those here used by this author . if this be a just delineation and character of the spirit of a gentleman , a due portraicture of the mind and affections of a philosopher , i know not who will be ambitious to be esteemed either the one or the other . but what measures men now make of gentility i know not ; truly noble generosity of spirit was heretofore esteemed to consist in nothing more , than remoteness from such pedantick severities against , and contemptuous reproaches of persons under all manner of disadvantages , yea impossibilities to manage their own just vindication , as are here exercised and expressed in this discourse . and the principal pretended attainment of the old philosophy , was a sedateness of mind , and a freedome from turbulent passions and affections under the greatest provocations ; which if they are here manifested by our author , they will give the greater countenance unto the character which he gives of others ; the judgement and determination whereof is left unto all impatial readers . but in this main design he professeth himself prevented by the late learned and ingenious discourse , the friendly debate ; which to manifest , it may be , that his rhetorical faculty is not confined to invectives , he spendeth some pages in the splendid encomiums of . there is no doubt , i suppose but that the author of that discourse , will on the next occasion require his panegyrick , and return him his commendations for his own achievements with advantage ; they are like enough to agree like those of the poet , discedo alcaeus puncto illius , ille meo quis ? quis nist callimachus ? for the present his account of the excellencies and successes of that discourse minds me of the dialogue between pyrgopolynices and artotrogus : pyrg . ecquid meministi ? art. memini ; centum in ciliciâ , et quinquaginta centum sycolatronidae , triginta sardi , sexaginta macedones , sunt homines tu quos occidisti uno die , pyrg . quanta isthaec hominum summa est ? art. septem millia . pyrg . tantum esse oportet ; rectè rationem tenes . art. at nullos habeo scriptos , sic memini tamen . although the particular instances he gives of the man's successes , are prodigiously ridiculous , yet the casting up of the summ total to the compleating of his victory , sinks them all out of consideration : and such is the account we have here of the friendly debate . this and that it hath effected , which though unduly asserted as to the particular instances , yet altogether comes short of that absolute victory and triumph which are ascribed unto it . but i suppose that upon due consideration , mens glorying in those discourses , will be but as the crackling of thorns in the fire , noise and smoak without any real and solid use or satisfaction . the great design of the author , asis apparent unto all , was to render the sentiments and expressions of his adversaries ridiculous , and thereby to expose their persons to contempt and scorn , egregiam vero laudem & spolia ampla ! and to this end his way of writing by dialogues is exceedingly suited and accommodated : for although ingenious and learned men , such as plato and cicero , have handled matters of the greatest importance in that way of writing , candidly-proposing the opinions and arguments of adverse parties in the persons of the dialogists , and sometimes used that method to make their design of instruction more easie and perspicuous , yet it cannot be denyed that advantages may be taken from this way of writing to represent both persons , opinions , and practices , invidiously and contemptuously , above any other way ; and therefore it hath been principally used by men who have had that design . and i know nothing in the skilfull contrivance of dialogues , which is boasted of here with respect unto the friendly debate , as also by the author of it in his preface to one of his worthy volumes , that should free the way of writing it self , from being supposed to be peculiarly accommodated to the ends mentioned . nor will these authors charge them with want of skill and art in composing of their dialogues , who have designed nothing in them but to render things uncouth , and persons ridiculous , with whom themselves were in worth and honesty no way to be compared . an instance hereof we have in the case of socrates . sundry in the city being weary of him for his uprightness , integrity , and continual pressing of them to courses of the like nature ; some also being in an especial manner incensed at him , and provoked by him ; amongst them they contrived his ruine . that they might effect this design , they procured aristophanes to write a dialogue , his comoedy which he entituled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the clouds ; wherein socrates is introduced and personated , talking at as contemptible and ridiculous a rate , as any one can represent the non-conformists to do ; and yet withal to commend himself as the only man considerable amongst them . without some such preparation of the peoples minds , his enemies thought it impossible to obtain his persecution and destruction ; and they failed not in their projection . aristophanes being poor , witty , and as is supposed hired to this work , layes out the utmost of his endeavours so to frame and order his dialogues , with such elegancy of words , and composure of his verses , with such a semblance of relating the words and expressing the manner of socrates , as might leave an impression on the minds of the people . and the success of it was no way inferiour to that of the friendly debate ; for though at first the people were somewhat surprized with seeing such a person so traduced , yet they were after a while so pleased and tickled with the ridiculous representation of him and his philosophy , wherein there was much of appearance and nothing of truth , that they could make no end of applauding the author of the dialogues . and though this were the known design of that poet , yet that his dialogues were absurd and inartificial , i suppose will not be affirmed ; seeing few were ever more skilfully contrived . having got this advantage of exposing him to publick contempt , his provoked malicious adversaries began openly to manage their accusation against him . the principal crime laid to his charge was non-conformity , or that he did not comply with the religion which the supream magistrate had enacted ; or as they then phrased it , he esteemed not them to be gods whom the city so esteemed . by these means , and through these advantages , they ceased not until they had destroyed the best and wisest person , that ever that city bred in its heathen condition , and whereof they quickly repented themselves . the reader may see the whole story exactly related in aelian . lib. . var. histor. cap. . much of it also may be collected from the apologies of xenophon and plato in behalf of socrates , as also plutarch's discourse concerning his genius . to this purpose have dialogues very artificially written been used and are absolutely the most accommodate of all sorts of writing unto such a design . hence lucian who aimed particularly to render the things which he disliked ridiculous and contemptible , used no other kind of writing ; and i think his dialogues will be allowed to be artificial , though sundry of them have no other design but to cast contempt on persons and opinions better than himself and his own . and his way of dealing with adversaries in points of faith , opinion and judgement , hath hitherto been esteemed fitter for the stage , than a serious disquisition after truth , or confutation of error : did those who admire their own achievements in this way of process , but consider how easie a thing it is for any one , deposing that respect to truth , modesty , sobriety , and christianity which ought to accompany us in all that we do , to expose the persons and opinions of men by false , partial , undue representations to scorn and contempt , they would perhaps cease to glory in their fancied success . it is a facile thing to take the wisest man living , and after he is lime-twigg'd with ink and paper , and gagged with a quill , so that he can neither move nor speak , to clap a fools coat on his back , and turn him out to be laughed at in the streets . the stoicks were not the most contemptible sort of philosophers of old , nor will not be thought so by those , who profess their religion to consist in morality only . and yet the roman orator in his pleading for muraena , finding it his present interest to cast some disreputation upon cato his adversary in that cause , who was addicted to that sect , so represented their dogmes , that he put the whole assembly into a fit of laughter ; whereunto cato only replyed , that he made others laugh , but was himself ridiculous ; and it may be some will find it to fall out not much otherwise with themselves by that time the whole account of their undertaking is well cast up . besides , do these men not know , that if others would employ themselves in a work of the like kind by way of retortion and recrimination , that they would find real matter amongst some whom they would have esteemed sacred , for an ordinary ingenuity to exercise it self upon unto their disadvantage ? but what would be the issue of such proceedings ? who would be gainers by it ? every thing that is professed among them that own religion , all wayes and means of their profession , being by their mutual reflections of this kind , render'd riciculous , what remains but that men fly to the sanctuary of atheism to preserve themselves from being scoffed at and despised as fools . on this account alone i would advise the author of our late debates to surcease proceeding in the same kind , lest a provocation unto a retaliation should befall any of those who are so fouly aspersed . but , as i said , what will be the end of these things , namely of mutual virulent reflections upon one another ? shall this sword devour for ever ? and will it not be bitterness in the latter end ? for , as he said of old of persons contending with revilings ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 great store there are of such words and expressions on every hand , and every provoked person , if he will not bind his passion to a rule of sobriety and temperance , may at his pleasure take out and use what he supposeth for his turn . and let not men please themselves with imagining that it is not as easie , though perhaps not so safe , for others to use towards themselves , haughty and contemptuous expressions , as it is for them to use them towards others . but shall this wrath never be allayed ? is this the way to restore peace , quietness and satisfaction to the minds of men ? is it meet to use her language in this nation concerning the present differences about religion , nullus amor populis , nec foedera sunto ; imprecor arma armis , pugnent ipsique nepotes ? is agreement in all other things , all love and forbearance , unless there be a centering in the same opinions absolutely , become criminal , yea detestable ? will this way of proceeding compose and satisfie the minds of men ? if there be no other way for a coalescence in love and unity in the bond of peace ; but either that the non-conformists do depose and change in a moment , as it were , their thoughts , apprehensions and judgements about the things in difference amongst us , which they cannot , which is not in their power to do ; or that in the presence , and with a peculiar respect unto the eye and regard of god , they will act contrary unto them , which they ought not , which they dare not , no not upon the present instruction , the state of these things is somewhat deplorable . that alone which in the discourses mentioned seemeth to me of any consideration , if it have any thing of truth to give it countenance , is that the non-conformists under pretence of preaching mysteries and grace , do neglect the pressing of moral duties , which are of near and indispensable concernment unto men in all their relations and actions ; and without which , religion is but a pretence and covering for vice and sin . a crime this is unquestionably of the highest nature if true , and such as might justly render the whole profession of those who are guilty of it suspected . and this is again renewed by our author , who to charge home upon the non-conformists reports the saying of fl●ius ilyricus a lutheran who dyed an hundred ye●rs ago ; namely that bona opera sunt pernitiosa ad salutem , though i do not remember that any such thing was maintained by illyricus , though it was so by amsdorsius against georgius major . but is it not strange , how any man can assume to himself , and swallow so much confidence as is needful to the mannagement of this charge ? the books and treatises published by men of the perswasion traduced , their daily preaching witnessed unto by multitudes of all sorts of people , the open avowing of their duty in this matter , their principles concerning sin , duty , holiness , vertue , righteousness and honesty , do all of them proclaim the blackness of this calumny , and sink it with those who have taken , or are able to take any sober cognizance of these things , utterly beneath all consideration ; moral duties they do esteem , commend , count as necessary in religion as any men that live under heaven ; it is true they say that on a supposition of that performance whereof they are capable without the assistance of the grace and spirit of god , though they may be good in their own nature , and useful to mankind , yet they are not available unto the salvation of the souls of men ; and herein they can prove , that they have the concurrent suffrage of all known churches in the world , both those of old , and these at present : they say moreover , that for men to rest upon their performances of these moral duties for their justification before god , is but to set up their own righteousness through an ignorance of the righteousness of god ; for we are justified freely by his grace ; neither yet are they sensible of any opposition to this assertion . for their own discharge of the work of the ministry , they endeavour to take their rule , pattern and instruction from the precepts , directions , and examples of them who were first commissionated unto that work , even the apostles of our lord jesus christ , recorded in the scripture , that they might be used and improved unto that end . by them are they taught , to endeavour the declaring unto men all the counsel of god concerning his grace , their obedience and salvation ; and having the word of reconciliation committed unto them , they do pray their hearers in christs stead to be reconciled unto god ; to this end do they declare the unsearchable riches of christ , and comparatively determine to know nothing in this world but christ and him crufied , whereby their preaching becometh principally the word or doctrine of the cross , which by experience they find to be a stumbling block unto some , and foolishness unto others ; by all means endeavouring to make known what is the riches of the glory of the mysterie of god in christ , reconciling the world unto himself ; praying withal for their hearers , that the god of our lord jesus christ , the father of glory , would give unto them the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him , that the eyes of their understanding being enlightned , they may learn to know what is the hope of his calling , and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints ; and in these things are they not ashamed of the gospel of christ , which is the power of god unto salvation . by this dispensation of the gospel , do they endeavour to ingenerate in the hearts and souls of men , repentance towards god , and faith in our lord jesus christ. to prepare them also hereunto , they cease not by the preaching of the law , to make known to men the terror of the lord , to convince them of the nature of sin , of their own lost and ruined condition by reason of it , through its guilt as both original in their natures , and actual in their lives , that they may be stirred up to fly from the wrath to come , and to lay hold on eternal life ; and thus as god is pleased to succeed them , do they endeavour to lay the great foundation jesus christ , in the hearts of their hearers , and to bring them to an interest in him by believing . in the farther pursuit of the work committed unto them , they endeavour more and more to declare unto , and instruct their hearers in all the mysteries and saving truths of the gospel , to the end that by the knowledge of them , they may be wrought unto obedience , and brought to conformity to christ , which is the end of their declaration ; and in the pursuit of their duty , there is nothing more that they insist upon , as far as ever i could observe , than an endeavour to convince men , that that faith or profession that doth not manifest it self , which is not justified by works , which doth not purifie the heart within , that is not fruitful in universal obedience to all the commands of god , is vain and unprofitable ; letting them know that though we are saved by grace , yet we are the workmanship of god created in christ jesus to good works , which he hath ordained for us to walk in them ; a neglect whereof doth uncontrollably evict men of hypocrisie and falseness in their profession ; that therefore these things in those that are adult , are indispensably necessary to salvation . hence do they esteem it their duty , continually to press upon their hearers the constant observance and doing of whatsover things are honest , whatsoever things are just , whatsoever things are pure , whatsoever things are comely , whatsoever things are of good report ; letting them know that those who are called to a participation of the grace of the gospel , have more , higher , stronger obligations upon them to righteousness , integrity , honesty , usefulness amongst men , in all moral duties , throughout all relations , conditions and capacities , than any others whatever . for any man to pretend , to write , plead that this they do not , but indeed do discountenance morality and the duties of it , is to take a liberty of saying what he pleases for his own purpose , when thousands are ready from the highest experience to contradict him . and if this false supposition should prove the soul that animates any discourses , let men never so passionately admire them , and expatiate in the commendation of them , i know some that will not be their rivals in their extasies . for the other things which those books are mostly filled withal , setting aside frivolous trifling exceptions about modes of carriage , and common phrases of speech , altogether unworthy the review or perusal of a serious person , they consist of such exceptions against expressions , sayings , occasional reflections on texts of scripture , invectives , and impertinent calling over of things past and by-gone , as the merit of the cause under contest is no way concerned in . and if any one would engage in so unhandsome an employment , as to collect such fond speeches , futilous expressions , ridiculous expositions of scripture , smutty passages , weak & impertinent discourses , yea profane scurrilities , which some others whom for their honors sake , and other reasons i shall not name , have in their sermons and discourses about sacred things been guilty of , he might provide matter enough for a score of such dialogues as the friendly debates , are composed of . but to return , that the advantages mentioned are somewhat peculiar unto dialogues , we have a sufficient evidence in this , that our author having another special design , he chose another way of writing suited thereunto . he professeth , that he hath neither hope , nor expectation to convince his adversaries of their crimes or mistakes , nor doth endeavour any such thing . nor did he meerly project to render them contemptible and ridiculous ; which to have effected , the writing of dialogues in his mannagement would have been most accommodate . but his purpose was to expose them to persecution , or to the severity of penal laws from the magistrate , and if possible , it may be , to popular rage and fury . the voice of his whole discourse is the same with that of the jews concerning st. paul , away with such fellows from the earth , for it is not meet they should live . such an account of his thoughts he gives us ; pag. . saith he , the only cause of all our troubles and disturbances ( which what they are he knows not , nor can declare ) is the inflexible perverfeness of about an hundred proud , ignorant , and seditious preachers , against whom if the severity of the laws were particularly levelled how easie would it be , &c. macte nova virtute puer , sic itur ad astra . but i hope it will appear before the close of this discourse , that our author is far from deserving the reputation of infallible in his politicks , whatever he may be thought to do in his divinity . it is sufficiently known how he is mistaken in his calculation of the numbers of those whom he designs to brand with the blackest marks of infamy , and whom he exposeth in his desires to the severities of law for their ruine . i am sure , it is probable , that there are more than an hundred of those whom he intends , who may say unto him , as gregory of nazianzen introduceth his father speaking to himself , nondum tot sunt anni tui , quot jam in sacris nobis sunt peracti victimis , who have been longer in the ministry than he in the world , but suppose there were but an hundred of them , he knows , or may know , when there was such a disparity in the numbers of them that contested about religion , that it was said of them , all the world against athanasius , and athanasius against the world ; who yet was in the right against them all , as they must acknowledge who frequently say or sing , his quicunque vult . but how came he so well acquainted with them all and every one , as to pronounce of them that they are proud , ignorant , and seditious ; allow him the liberty , which i see he will take whether we allow it him or no , to call whom he pleaseth seditious upon the account of reall or supposed principles not complyant with his thoughts and apprehensions ; yet that men are proud , and ignorant how he can prove but by particular instances from his own acquaintance with them , i know not ; and if he should be allowed to be a competent judge of knowledge and ignorance in the whole compass of wisdom and science , which it may be some will except against , yet unless he had personally conversed with them all , or were able to give sufficient instances of their ignorance from actings , writings , or expressions of their own , he would scarce be able to give a tolerable account of the honesty of this his p●remptory censure ; and surely this must needs be looked on , as a lovely , gentle , and philosophick humour , to judge all men proud and ignorant , who are not of our minds in all things , and on that ground alone . but yet let them be as ignorant as can be fancied , this will not determine the difference between them and their adversaries . one unlearned paphnutius in the council of nice stopped all the learned fathers when they were precipitately casting the church into a snare ; and others as unlearned as he , may honestly attempt the same at any time . and for our authors projection for the obtaining of quiet by severe dealings with these men in an especial manner , one of the same nature failed in the instance mentioned . for when athanasius stood almost by himself in the eastern empire for a profession in religion , which the supream magistrate and the generality of the clergy condemned , it was thought the levelling of severity in particular against him , would bring all to a composure . to this purpose after they had again and again charged him to be proud and seditious , they vigorously engaged in his prosecution , according to the projection here proposed , and sought him neer all the world over , but to no purpose at all , as the event discovered . for the truth which he professed having left its root in the hearts of multitudes of the people , on the first opportunity they returned again to the open avowing of it . but to return from this digression ! this being the design of our author , not so much to expose his adversaries to common contempt and laughter , as to ruine and destruction , he diverted from the beaten path of dialogues , and betook himself unto that of rhetorical invective declamations , which is peculiarly suited to carry on and promote such a design . i shall therefore here leave him for the present , following the triumphant chariot of his friend ; singing io triumphe ! and casting reflections upon the captives that he draggs after him at his chariot wheels , which will doubtless supply his imagination with a pleasing entertainment , untill he shall awake out of his dream , and find all the pageantry that his fancy hath erected round about him , to vanish and disappear . his next attempt is upon atheists , wherein i have no concern , nor his principal adversaries the non-conformists ; for my part i have had this advantage by my own obscurity and small consideration in the world , as never to converse with any persons that did , or durst question the being or providence of god , either really or in pretence . by common reports , and published discourses , i find that there are not a few in these dayes , who either out of pride and ostentation , or in a real complyance with their own darkness and ignorance , do boldly venture to dispute the things which we adore ; and if i am not greatly mis-informed , a charge of this prodigious licentiousness and impiety , may from pregnant instances , be brought neer the doors of some who on other occasions declaim against it . for practical atheism the matter seems to be unquestionable ; many live as though they believed neither god nor devil in the world , but themselves ; with neither sort am i concerned to treat at present , nor shall i examine the invectives of our author against them ; though i greatly doubt , whether ever such a kind of defence of the being of god was written by any man before him . if a man would make a judgement upon the genius and way of his discourse , he might possibly be tempted to fear , that it is persons , rather than things that are the object of his indignation ; and it may be the fate of some , to suffer under the infamy of atheism , as it is thought diagoras did of old , not for denying the deity , nor for any absurd conceptions of mind concerning it , but for deriding and contemning them , who without any interest in , or sense of religion , did foolishly , in idoliatrous instances make a pretence of it in the world . but whatever wickedness or miscarriages of this nature our author hath observed , his zeal against them were greatly to be commended , but that it is not in that only instance wherein he allows of the exercise of that vertue , let it then be his anger or indignation , or what he pleases , that he may not miss of his due praises and commendation . only i must say , that i question whether to charge persons enclined to atheism with profaning johnson and fletcher as well as the holy scriptures , be a way of proceeding probably suited to their conviction or reduction . it seems also that those who are here chastised do vent their atheism in scossing and drollery , jesting , and such like contemptible efforts of wit , that may take for a while amongst little and unlearned people , and immediately evaporate . i am afraid more of those who under pretences of sober reason do vent and maintain opinions and principles that have a direct tendency to give an open admission unto atheism in the minds of men , than of such fooleries . when others fury and raving cruelties succeeded not , he alone prevailed , qui solus accessit sobrius ad perdendam remp. one principle contended for as rational and true , which if admitted will insensibly seduce the mind unto , and justifie a practice ending in atheism , is more to be feared , than ten thousand jests and scoffs against religion , which methinks , amongst men of any tolerable sobriety should easily be buried under contempt and scorn . and our author may do well to consider whether he hath not , unwittingly i presume , in some instances , so expressed and demeaned himself , as to give no small advantage to those corrupt inclinations unto atheism , which abound in the hearts of men ; are not men taught here to keep the liberty of their minds and judgements to themselves , whilest they practise that which they approve not , nor can do so ; which is directly to act against the light and conviction of conscience ? and yet an associate of his in his present design , in a modest and free conference , tells us , that there is not awider step to atheism than to do any thing against conscience , and enforms his friend , that dissent out of grounds that appear to any founded on the will of god , is conscience ; but against such a conscience , the light , judgement and conviction of it , are men here taught to practise ; and thereby in the judgement of that author , are instructed unto atheism . and indeed if once men find themselves at liberty to practise contrary to what is prescribed unto them in the name and authority of god , as all things are which conscience requires , it is not long that they will retain any regard of him , or reverence unto him. it hath hitherto been the judgement of all , who have enquired into these things , that the great concern of the glory of god in the world , the interest of kings and rulers , of all governments whatever , the good and welfare of private persons , lyes in nothing more , than in preserving conscience from being debauched in the conducting principles of it ; and in keeping up its due respect to the immediate soveraignty of god over it in all things . neither ever was there a more horrid attempt upon the truth of the gospel , all common morality , and the good of mankind , than that which some of late years or ages have been engaged in , by suggesting in their casuistical writings such principles for the guidance of the consciences of men , as in sundry particular instances might set them free , as to practice , from the direct and immedsately influencing authority of god in his word . and yet i doubt not , but it may be made evident , that all their principle● in conjunction are scarce of so pernicious a tendency as this one general theorem , that men may lawfully act in the worship of god , or otherwise , against the light , dictates , or convictions of their own consciences . exempt conscience from an absolute , immediate , entire , universal dependance on the authority , will , and judgement of god , according to what conceptions it hath of them , and you disturb the whole harmony of divine providence in the government of the world ; and break the first link of that great chain whereon all religion and government in the world do depend . teach men to be like naaman the syrian to believe only in the god of israel , and to worship him according to his appointment by his own choice , and from a sense of duty , yet also to bow in the house of rimmon contrary to his light and conviction out of complyance with his master ; or with the men of samaria to fear the lord , but to worship their idols , and they will not fail at one time or other , rather to seek after rest in restless atheism , than to live in a perpetual conflict with themselves , or to cherish an everlasting sedition in their own bosomes . i shall not much reflect upon those expressions which our author is pleased to vent his indignation by ; such as religious rage , and fury , religious villany , religious lunacies , serious and consciencious villanies , wildness of godly madness , men lead by the spirit of god to disturb the publick peace , the world filled with a buzze and noise of the divine spirit , sanctified fury , sanctified barbarism , pious villanies , godly disobedience , sullen and cross-grained godliness , with innumerable others of the like kind ; which although perhaps he may countenance himself in the use of , from the tacite respect that he hath to the persons whom he intends to vilifie and reproach ; yet in themselves , and to others , who have not the same apprehensions of their occasion , they tend to nothing but to beget a scorn and derision of all religion , and the profession of it ; an humour which will not find where to rest or fix it self , untill it comes to be swallowed up in the abysse of atheism . we are at length arrived at the last act of this tragical preface ; and as in our progress we have rather heard a great noise and bluster , than really encountred either true difficulty or danger ; so now i confess that weariness of conversing with so many various sounds of the same signification , the summ of all being knaves , villains , fools , will carry me through the remainder of it , with some more than ordinary precipitation , as grudging an addition in this kind of employment to those few minutes wherein the preceding remarques were written or dictated . there are two or three heads which the remainders of this prefatory discourse may be reduced unto . first , a magnificent proclamation of his own achievements ; what he hath proved , what he hath done , especially in representing the inconsistence of liberty of conscience with the first and fundamental laws of government ; and i am content that he please himself with his own apprehensions , like him who admired at the marvelous feats performed in an empty theatre . for it may be that upon examination it will be found , that there is scarce in his whole discourse any one argument offered at , that hath the least seeming cogency towards such an end ; whether you take liberty of conscience , for liberty of judgement , which himself confesseth uncontroleable , or liberty of practice upon indulgence which he seems to oppose , an impartial reader will i doubt be so far from finding the conclusion mentioned to be evinced , as he will scarcely be able to satisfie himself that there are any premises that have a tendency thereunto . but i suppose he must extreamly want an employment who will design himself a business , in endeavouring to dispossess him of his self-pleasing imagination . yea he seems not to have pleaded his own cause absurdly at athens , who giving the city the news of a victory when they had received a fatal defeat , affirmed that publick thanks were due to him , for affording them two dayes of mirth and jollity , before the tidings came of their ill success ; which was more than they were ever like to see again in their lives . and there being as much satisfaction in a fancied , as a real success , though useless and failing , we shall leave our author in the highest contentment that thoughts of this nature can afford him . however it may not be amiss to mind him of that old good counsel , let not him that girdeth on his armour , boast like him that putteth it off . another part of his oration is to decry the folly of that bruitish apprehension that men can possibly live peaceably and quietly if they enjoy the liberty of their consciences ; where he fears not to affirm , that it is more elegible to tolerate the highest debauchertes , than liberty for men to worship god according to what they apprehend he requires ; whence some severe persons would be too apt it may be to make a conjecture of his own inclinations ; for it is evident that he is not absolutely insensible of self-interest in what he doth or writes . but the contrary to what he asserts , being a truth at this day written with the beams of the sun in many nations of europe , let envy , malice , fear , and revenge suggest what they please otherwise , and the nature of the thing it self denyed being built upon the best , greatest , and surest foundations and warranty that mankind hath to build on , or trust unto for their peace and security , i know not why it's denial was here ventured at , unless it were to embrace an opportunity once more to give vent to the remainders of his indignation , by revilings and reproaches , which i had hoped had been now exhausted . but these things are but collateral to his principal design in this close of his declamation ; and this is the removal of an objection , that liberty of conscience would conduce much to the improvement of trade in the nation . it is known that many persons of great wisdom and experience , and who , as it is probable , have had more time to consider the state and proper interest of this nation , and have spent more pains in the weighing of all things conducing thereunto than our author hath done , are of this mind and judgement . but he at once strikes them and their reasons dumb , by drawing out his gorgon's head , that he hath proved it inconsistent with government , and so it must needs be a foolish and silly thing to talk of its usefulness to trade . verum , ad populum phalera ; if great blustering words , dogmatical assertions , uncouth , unproved principles , accompanied with a pretence of contempt and scorn of all exceptions and oppositions to what is said , with the persons of them that make them , may be esteemed proofs , our author can prove what he pleaseth , and he is to be thought to have proved whatever he affirms himself so to have done . if sober reason , experience , arguments derived from common acknowledged principles of truth , if a confirmation of deductions from such principles , by confessed and commonly approved instances are necessary to make up convincing proofs in matters of this nature and importance , we are yet to seek for them , notwithstanding any thing that hath been offered by this author , or as far as i can conjecture is likely so to be . in the mean time i acknowledge many parts of his discourse to be singularly remarkable . his insinuation that the affairs of the kingdom are not in a fixed and established condition , that we are distracted amongst our selves with a strange variety of jealous●es and annimosities , and such like expressions , as if divulged in a book printed without licence , would and that justly , be looked on as seditious , are the foundations that he proceedeth upon . now as i am confident that there is very little ground , or none at all for these insinuations , so the publick disposing of the minds of men to fears , suspicious , and apprehensions of unseen dangers by such means , becomes them only , who care not what disadvantage they cast others , nay their rulers under , so they may compass and secure their own private ends and concerns . but yet not content to have expressed his own real or pretended apprehensions , he proceeds to manifest his scorn of those , or his smiling at them , who with mighty projects labour for the improvement of trade , which the council appointed , as i take it , by his majesty thence denominated , is more concerned in than the non-conformists , and may do well upon this information finding themselves lyable to scorn , to desist from such an useless and contemptible employment . they may now know , that to erect and encourage trading combinations , is only to build so many nests of faction and sedition ; for he sayes , there is not any sort of people so inclinable to seditious practices as the trading part of a nation ; and that their pride and arrogance naturally encrease with the improvement of their stock . besides the fanatick party , as he sayes , live in these greater societies , and it is a very odd and preposterous folly , to design the enriching of that sort of people ; for wealth doth but only pamper and encourage their presumption ; and he is a very silly man , and understands nothing of the follies , passions and inclinations of humane nature , who sees not that there is no creature so ungovernable as a wealthy fanatick . it cannot be denyed , but that this modern policy , runs contrary to the principles and experience of former ages . to preserve industrious men in a peaceable way of emproving their own interests , whereby they might partake in their own and family concerns , of the good and advantages of government , hath been by the weak and silly men of former generations , esteemed the most rational way of inducing their minds unto peaceable thoughts and resolutions . for as the wealth of men encreaseth , so do their desires and endeavours after all things and wayes whereby it may be secured ; that so they may not have spent their labour and the vigour of their spirits with reference unto their own good and that of their posterity in vain . yea , most men are found to be of issachar's temper , who when he saw , that rest was good , and the land pleasant , wherein his own advantages lay , bowed his shoulder to bear , and became a servant unto tribute ; fortes and miseri , have heretofore been only feared , and not such as found satisfaction to their desires in the encreases and successes of their endeavours . and as caesar said , he feared not those fat and corpulent persons anthony and dolabella , but those pale and lean discontented ones , brutus and cassius ; so men have been thought to be far less dangerous , or to be suspected in government , who are well clothed with their own wealth and concerns , than such as have nothing but themselves to lose , and by reason of their straights and distresses , do scarce judge them worth the keeping . and hath this gentleman really considered what the meaning of that word trade is , and what is the concernment of this nation in it ? or is he so fond of his own nations and apprehensions , as to judge it meet that the vital spirits and blood of the kingdom should be offered in sacrifice unto them ? solomon tells us , that the profit of the earth is for all , and the king himself is served by the field ; and we may truly in england say the same of trade ; all men know what respect unto it there is in the revenues of the crown , and how much they are concerned in its growth and promotion ; the rents of all from the highest to the lowest that have an interest in the soyl , are regulated by it , and rise and fall with it ; nor is there any possibility to keep them up to their present proportion and standard , much less to advance them , without the continuance of trade in its present condition at least , may without a steddy endeavour for its encrease , furtherance and promotion . noblemen and gentlemen must be contented to eat their own bief and mutton at home , if trade decay ; to keep up their antient and present splendour , they will find no way or means . corporations are known to be the most considerable and significant bodies of the common people , and herein lies their being and bread ; to diminish or discountenance their trade , is to starve them , and discourage all honest industry in the world . it was a sad desolation that not long since befell the great city by fire ; yet through the good providence of god , under the peaceable government of his majesty , it is rising out of its ashes , with a new signal beauty and lustre . but that consumption and devastation of it , which the pursuit of this council will inevitably produce , would prove fatal and irreparable . and as the interest of all the several parts of the common-wealth do depend on the trade of the people amongst our selves , so the honor , power and security of the whole in reference unto forraign nations , are resolved also into the same principles ; for as our soyl is but small in comparison of some of our neighbours , and the numbers of our people no wayes to be compared with theirs , so if we should forego the advantages of trade for which we have opportunities , and unto which the people of this nation have inclinations , above any countrey on nation in the world , we should quickly find how unequal the competition between them and us would be : for even our naval force , which is the honour of the king , the security of his kingdoms , the terror of his enemies , oweth its rise and continuance unto that preparation of persons employed therein , which is made by the trade of the nation . and if the councel of this author should be followed , to suspend all thoughts of the supportment , encouragement , and furtherance of trade , until all men by the severity of penalties should be induced to an uniformity in religion ; i doubt not but our envious neighbours would as readily discern the concernment of their malice and ill will therein , as hannibal did his , in the action of the roman general , who at the battel of cannae , according to their usual discipline , ( but fatally at that time misapplyed ) caused in the great distress of the army , his horsemen to alight and fight on foot , not considering the advantage of his great and politick enemy , as things then stood , who immediately said , i had rather he had delivered them all bound unto me , though he knew there was enough done to secure his victory . a survey of the first chapter . the author of this discourse , seems in this first chapter to design the stating of the controversie , which he intendeth to pursue and handle , ( as he expresseth himself pag. ii. ) as also to lay down the main foundations of his ensuing superstructure . nothing could be more regularly projected , nor more suited to the satisfaction of ingenious inquirers into the matters under debate ; for those , who have any design in reading , beyond a present divertisement of their minds , or entertainment of their fancies , desire nothing more than to have the subject matter which they exercise their thoughts about , clearly and distinctly proposed , that a true judgement may be made concerning what men say , and whereof they do affirm . but i fear our author hath fallen under the misadventure of a failure in these projections ; at least as unto that certainty , clearness , and perspicuity in the declaration of his conceptions , and expression of his assertions and principles ; without which all other ornaments of speech in matters of moment , are of no use or consideration . his language is good and proper , his periods of speech laboured , full , and even ; his expressions poynant towards his adversaries , and singly taken , appearing to be very significative and expressive of his mind . but i know not how it is come to pass , that what either through his own defect , as to a due comprehension of the notions whose mannagement he hath undertaken , or out of a design to cloud and obscure his sentiments , and to take the advantage of loose declamatory expressions , it is very hard , if possible , to gather from what he hath written , either what is the true state of the controversie proposed to discussion , or what is the precise determinate sense of of those words wherein he proposeth the principles that he proceeds upon . thus in the title of the book he asserts the power of the magistrate over the consciences of men ; elsewhere confines the whole work and duty of conscience to the inward thoughts and perswasions of the mind , over which the magistrate hath no power at all . conscience it self he sometimes sayes is every mans opinion ; sometimes he calls it an imperious faculty , which surely are not the same ; sometimes he pleads for the uncontrollable power of magistrates over religion and the consciences of men ; sometimes asserts their ecclesiastical jurisdiction as the same thing , and seemingly all that he intends ; whereas i suppose , no man ever yet defined ecclesiastical jurisdiction , to be , an uncontrollable power over religion and the consciences of men. the magistrates power over religion he asserts frequently , and denyeth outward worship to be any part of religion , and at last pleads upon the matter only for his power over outward worship . every particular vertue he affirms to be such , because it is a resemblance and imitation of some of the divine attributes ; yet also teacheth that there may be more vertues , or new ones that were not so , and that to be vertue in one place which is not so in another : sometimes he pleads that the magistrate hath power to impose any religion on the consciences of his subjects , that doth not countenance vice , or disgrace the deity ; and then anon pleads for it in indifferent things , and circumstances of outward worship only . also that the magistrate may oblige his subjects consciences to the performance of moral duties , and other duties in religious worship under penalties , and yet punisheth none for their crime and guilt , but for the example of others . and many other instances of the like nature may be given . now , whatever dress of words these things may be set off withal , they savour rankly of crude and undigested notions , not reduced unto such a consistency in his mind , as to suffer him to speak evenly , steadily , and constantly to them . upon the whole matter , it may not be unmeetly said of his discourse , what tally said of rullus his oration about the agrarian law ; concionem advocari jubet ; summâ cum expectatione concurritur ; explicat orationem sane longam & verbis valdè bonis ; vnum erat quod mihi vitiosum videbatur ; quòd tantâ ex frequentiâ nemo inveniri potuit qui intelligere posset quid diceret . hoc ille utrum ins●diarum caus● fecerit , an hac genere eloquentia delectetur , nescio ; tamen siqui acutiores in concione steterant , de lege agrairia nescio quid voluisse eum dicere suspicabantur . many good words it is composed of , many sharp reflections are made on others , a great appearance there is of reason ; but besides that , it is plain that he treats of the nonconformists and the magistrates power , and would have this latter exercised about the punishment or destruction of the former , ( which almost every page expresseth ) it is very , hard to gather what is the case he speaks unto , or what are principles he proceeds upon . the entrance of his discourse is designed to give an account of the great difficulty which he intends to assoyl , of the controversie that he will handle and debate , and of the difference which he will compose . here , if any where , accuracy , perspicuity , and a clear distinct direction of the minds of the readers unto a certain just apprehension of the matter in question and difference , ought to be expected . for if the foundation of discourses of this nature , be laid in terms general , ambiguous , loose , rhetorical , and flourishing , giving no particular determinate sense of the controversie , ( for so this is called by our author ) all . that ensues in the pursuit of what is so laid down , must needs be of the same complexion . and such appears to be the declamatory entrance of this chapter . for instead of laying a solid foundation to erect his superstructure upon , the author seems in it only to have built a castle in the air , that makes a goodly appearance and shew , but is of no validity or use . can he suppose that any man is the wiser , or the more intelligent in the difference about liberty of conscience , the power and duty of magistrates in granting or denying an indulgence unto the exercise of it , by reading an elegant parabolical discourse of two supream powers , the magistrate and conscience , contesting for soveraignty , in and about no man knows what ? what conscience is ; what liberty of conscience ; what it is pleaded for to extend unto , who are concerned in it ; whether its plea be resolved absolutely into its own nature and constitution , or into that respect which it hath to another common rule of the minds and conceptions of men in and about the worship of god , is not declared ; nor is it easily discernable , what he allows and approves of in his own discourse , and what he introduceth to reflect upon , and so reject . pag. . he tells us , that conscience is subject and accountable to god alone , that it owns no superiour but the lord of consciences . and pag. . that those who make it accountable to none but god lone , do in effect usurp their princes crown , defie his authority , and acknowledge no governour but themselves . if it be pleaded that in the first place , not what is , but what is unduly pretended is declared , his words may be as well so expounded in all his ascriptions unto magistrates also ; namely , that it is not with them as he asserts ; but only ' t is unduly pretended so to be , as to any thing that appears in the discourse . the distinct consideration of the principles of conscience , and the outward exercise of it , can alone here give any shew of relief . but as no distinction of that nature doth as yet appear , and if rested on , ought to have been produced by any one who understood himself , and intended not to deceive or entangle others , so when it is brought on the stage , its inconsistency to serve the end designed shall be evinced . but that a plea for the consciences of private men , ( submitting themselves freely and willingly to the supream power and government of magistrates in all things belonging to publick peace and tranquility , ) to have liberty to express their obedience unto god in the exercise of his outward worship , should receive such a tragical description of a rival supream power set up against the magistrate to the usurpation of his crown and dignity , is a new way of stating controversies whether in divinity or policy , which this author judgeth conducing to his design and purpose . and i shall say no more but that those who delight in such a way of writing , and do receive light and satisfaction thereby , do seem to be exercised in a logick that i was never acquainted withal , and which i shall not now enquire after . what seems to be of real difficulty in this matter which is so rhetorically exaggerated , our blessed saviour hath stated and determined in one word ; give , saith he , unto caesar the things that are caesar's , and to god the things that are gods ; and this he did , when he gave his disciples command not only to think , judge and believe according to what he should propose and reveal unto them , but also to observe and do in outward practices what ever he should command them . as he requires all subjection unto the magistrate in things of his proper cognizance , that is all things necessary to publick peace and tranquility in this world the great end of his authority : so he asserts also that there are things of god which are to be observed and practised , even all and every one of his own commands ; in a neglect whereof on any pretence or account , we give not unto god that which is his. and he doubted not , but that these things , these distinct respects to god and man , were exceedingly well consistent , and together directive to the same end of publick good . wherefore passing through the flourishes of this frontispiece with the highest inconcernment , we may enter the fabrick it self , where possibly we may find him declaring directly what it is that he asserts in this matter , and contendeth for ; and this he doth pag. . and therefore it is the design of this discourse by a fair and impartial debate to compose all these differences and adjust all these quarrells and contentions , and settle things upon their true and proper foundations ; first by proving it to be absolutely necessary to the peace and government of the world , that the supream magistrate of every commonwealth should be vested with a power to govern and conduct the consciences of subjects in affairs of religion . i am sure our author will not be surprized , if after he hath reported the whole party whom he opposeth , as a company of silly , foolish , illiterate persons , one of them should so far acknowledge his own stupidity , as to profess that after the consideration of this declaration of his intention and mind , he is yet to seek for the direct and determinate sense of his words , and for the principle that he designes the confirmation of . i doubt not but that the magistrate hath all that power which is absolutely necessary for the preservation of publick peace and tranquility in the world . but if men may be allowed to fancy what they please to be necessary unto that end , and thence to make their own measures of that power which is to be ascribed unto him , no man knows what bounds will be fixed unto that ocean wherein the leviathans they have framed in their imagination may sport themselves . some will perhaps think it necessary to this purpose that the magistrate should have power to declare , and determine whether there be a god or no ; whether if there be , it be necessary he should be worshipped or no ; whether any religion be needful in , or usefull to the world ; and if there be , then to determine what all subjects shall believe , and practise from first to last in the whole of it . and our author hopes that some are of this mind . others may confine it to lesser things , according as their own interest doth call upon them so to do ; though they are not able to assign a clear distinction between what is subjected unto him , and what may plead an exemption from his authority . he indeed who is the fountain and original of all power , hath both assigned its proper end , and fully suited it to the attainment thereof . and if the noise of mens lusts , passions , and interests , were but a little silenced , we should quickly hear the harmonious consenting voice of humane nature it self , declaring the just proportion that is between the grant of power and its end ; and undeniably express it in all the instances of it . for as the principle of rule and subjection , is natural to us , concreated with us , and indispensably necessary to humane society in all the distinctions it is capable of , and relations whence those distinctions arise ; so nature it self duly attended unto , will not fail by the reason of things , to direct us unto all that is essential unto it , and necessary unto its end . arbitrary fictions of ends of government , and what is necessary thereunto , influenced by present interest , and arising from circumstances confined to one place , time , or nation , are not to be imposed on the nature of government it self ; which hath nothing belonging unto it but what inseparably accompanieth mankind as sociable . but to let this pass ; the authority here particularly asserted , is a power in the supream magistrate to govern and guide the consciences of his subjects in affairs of religion . let any man duly consider these expressions , and if he be satisfied by them as to the sense of the controversie under debate , i shall acknowledge that he is wiser than i , which is very easie for any one to be . what are the affairs of religion here intended , all or some ? whether in religion , or about it ; what are the consciences of men , and how exercised about these things ; what it is to govern and conduct them ; with what power , by what means this may be done ; i am at a loss for ought that yet is here declared . there is a guidance , conduct , yea government of the consciences of men , by instructions and directions in a due proposal of rational and spiritual motives for those ends ; such as is that which is vested in , and exercised by the guides of the church ; and that in subjection to , and dependance on christ alone , as hath been hitherto apprehended ; though some now seem to have a mind to change their master , and to take up praesente numine who may be of more advantage to them . that the magistrate hath also power so to govern and conduct the consciences of his subjects in his way of administration , that is by ordering them to be taught , instructed , and guided in their duty , i know none that doth deny . so did jehosophat , chron. , , , . but it seems to be a government and guidance of another nature that is here intended . to deliver our selves therefore from the deceit and intanglement of these general expressions , and that we may know what to speak unto , we must seek for a declaration of their sense and importance from what is elsewhere in their pursuit affirmed and explained by their author . his general assertion is ( as was observed ) that the magistrate hath power over the consciences of his subjects in religion , as appears in the title of his book ; here p. . that power , is said to be , to govern and conduct their consciences in religious affairs ; pag. . that religion is subject to his dominion as well as all other affairs of state , pag. . it is a soveraignty over mens consciences in matters of religion , and this universal , absolute , and uncontrollable ; matters of religion are as uncontrollably subject to the supream power , as all other civil concerns ; he may if he please reserve the exercise of the priesthood to himself , p. . that is , what now in religion corresponds unto the ancient priesthood , as the ordering bishops and priests , administring sacraments and the like ; as the papists in q. elizabeth 's time did commonly report , in their usual manner , that it was done by a woman amongst us , by a fiction of such principles as begin it seems now to be owned . that if this power of the government of religion be not universal and unlimited it is useless , p. . that this power is not derived from christ , nor any grant of his , but is antecedent to his coming , or any power given unto him or granted by him , pag. . magistrates have a power to make that a particular of the divine law , which god had not made so , p. . and to introduce new duties in the most important parts of religion . so that there is a publick conscience which men are in things of a publick concern ( relating to the worship of god ) to attend unto and not to their own . and if there be any sin in the command , he that imposed it , shall answer for it , and not i whose whole duty it is to obey , p. . hence the command of authority will warrant obedience , and obedience will hallow my actions , and excuse me from sin , ibid. hence it follows , that whatever the magistrate commands in religion , his authority doth so immediately affect the consciences of men , that they are bound to observe it on the pain of the greatest sin and punishment ; and he may appoint and command whatever he pleaseth in religion , that doth not either countenance vice , or disgrace the deity , p. . and many other expressions are there of the general assertion before laid down . this therefore seems to me , and to the most impartial considerations of this discourse that i could bring unto it , to be the doctrine or opinion proposed and advanced for the quieting and composing of the great tumults described in its entrance ; namely , that the supream magistrate in every nation hath power to order and appoint what religion his subjects shall profess and observe , or what he pleaseth in religion , as to the worship of god required in it , provided that he enjoyneth nothing that countenanceth vice , or disgraceth the deity ; and thereby binds their consciences to profess and observe that which is by him so appointed ( and nothing else are they to observe ) making it their duty in conscience so to do ; and the highest crime or sin to do any thing to the contrary ; and that whatever the precise truth in these matters be , or whatever be the apprehensions of their own consciences concerning them . now if our author can produce any law , usage , or custome of this kingdom , any statute or act of parliament , any authentick record , any acts or declarations of our kings , any publickly authorised writing , before or since the reformation , declaring , asserting , or otherwise approving the power and authority described , to belong unto , to be claimed or exercised by the kings of this nation , i will faithfully promise him never to write one word against it , although i am sure i shall never be of that mind . and if i mistake not in a transient reflection on these principles , compared with those which the church of england hath formerly pleaded against them who opposed her constitutions , they are utterly by them cast out of all consideration ; and this one notion is advanced in the room of all the foundations , which for so many years her defenders , ( as wife and as learned as this author ) have been building upon . but this is not my concernment to examine ; i shall leave it unto them whose it is , and whose it will be made appear to be , if we are again necessitated to engage in this dispute . for the present ; be it granted , that it is the duty , and in the power of every supream magistrate , to order , and determine what religion , what way , what modes in religion shall be allowed , publickly owned , and countenanced , and by publick revenue maintained in his dominions . that is , this is allowed with respect to all pretensions of other soveraigns , or of his own subjects ; with respect unto god , it is his truth alone , the religion by him revealed , and the worship by him appointed that he can so allow or establish . the rule that holds in private persons with respect to the publick magistrate , holds in him with respect unto god. illud possumus quod jure possumus . it is also agreed , that no men , no individual person , no order , or society of men , are either in their persons or any of their outward concerns , exempted , or may be so on the account of religion , from his power and jurisdiction ; nor any causes that are lyable unto a legal , political disposal and determination ; it is also freely acknowledged that whatever such a magistrate doth determi●● about the observances of religion . under what penalties soever , his subjects are bound to observe what he doth so command and appoint , unless by general or especial rules , their consciences are obliged to a dissent , or contrary observation by the authority of god and his word ; in this case they are to keep their souls entire in their spiritual subjection unto god , and quietly and peaceably to bear the troubles , and inconveniencies which on the account thereof may befall them , without the least withdrawing of their obedience from the magistrate . and in this state of things as there is no necessity or appearance of it , that any man should be brought into such a condition , as wherein sin on the one hand , or the other , cannot be avoided ; so that state of things will probably occurr in the world , as it hath done in all ages hitherto , that men may be necessitated to sin , or suffer . to winde up the state of this controversie ; we say that antecedent to the consideration of the power of the magistrate , and all the influence that it hath upon men or their consciences , there is a superiour determination of what is true , what false in religion , what right and what wrong in the worship of god , wherein the guidance of the consciences of men doth principally depend , and whereinto it is ultimately resolved . this gives an obligation , or liberty unto them , antecedent unto the imposition of the magistrate , of whose command and our actual obedience unto them in these things , it is the rule and measure . and i think there is no principle , no common presumption of nature , nor dictate of reason more evident , known , or confessed , than this , that whatever god commands us in his worship or otherwise , that we are to do ; and whatever he forbids us , that we are not to do , be the things themselves in our eye great , or small . neither is there any difference in these things with respect unto the way or manner of the declaration of the will of god ; whether it be by innate common light , or by revelation , all is one ; the authority and will of god in all is to be observed . yea a command of god made known by revelation , ( the way which is most contended about ) may suspend as to any particular instance , the greatest command that we are obliged unto by the law of nature in reference unto one another ; as it did in the precept given to abraham for the sacrificing of his son. and we shall find our author himself setting up the supremacy of conscience in opposition unto , and competition with that of the magistrate , ( though with no great self-consistency ) ascribing the preheminence and prevalency in obligation unto that of conscience , and that in the principal and most important duties of religion and humane life . such are all those moral vertues , which have in their nature a resemblance of the divine perfections , wherein he placeth the substance of religion ; with respect unto these , he so setteth up the throne of conscience , as to affirm that if any thing be commanded by the magistrate against them , to disobey him is no sin , but a duty ; and we shall find the case to be the same in matters of meer revelation . for what god commands that he commands , by what way soever that commnad be made known to us . and there is no consideration that can adde any thing to the obligatory power and efficacy of infinite authority . so that where the will of god is the formal reason of our obedience , it is all one how or by what means it is discovered unto us , whatever we are instructed in by innate reason , or by 〈◊〉 ▪ the reason why we are 〈◊〉 by it , is neither the one nor the other , but the authority of god in both . but we must return unto the consideration of the sentiments of our author in this matter as before laid down . the authority ascribed to the civil magistrate being as hath been expressed ; it will be very hard for any one to distinguish between it and the soveraignty that the lord christ himself hath in and over his church ; yea if there be any advantage on either side , or a comparative preheminence , it will be found to be cast upon that of the magistrate . is the lord christ the lord of the souls and consciences of men ? hath he dominion over them to rule them in the things of the worship of god ? it is so with the magistrate also ; he hath an universal power over the consciences of his subjects . doth the lord christ require his disciples to do and observe in the worship of god what ever he commanded them ? so also may the magistrate , the rule and conduct of conscience in these matters belonging unto him ; provided that he command nothing that may countenance vice , or disgrace the deity ; which , with reverence be it spoken , our lord jesus christ himself , not only on the account of the per●ection and rectitude of his own nature , but also of his commission from the father , could not do . is the authority of christ the formal reason making obedience necessary to his commands and precepts ? so is the authority of the magistrate in reference unto what he requires . do men therefore sin if they neglect the observance of the commands of christ in the worship of god , because of his immediate authority so to command them binding their consciences ? so do men sin if they omit or neglect to do what the magistrate requires in the worship of god because of his authority , without any farther respect . hath the lord christ instituted two sacraments in the worship of god , that is outward visible signs , or symbols , of inward invisible or spiritual grace ? the magistrate if he please may institute and appoint twenty under the names of significant ceremonies ; that is outward visible signs of inward spiritual grace , which alone is the significancy contended about . hath the magistrate this his authority in and over religion and the consciences of men from jesus christ ? no more then christ hath his authority from the magistrate ; for he holds it by the law of nature antecedent to the promise and coming of christ ? might christ in his own person administer the holy things of the church of god ? not in the church of the jews , for he sprang of the tribe of judah , concerning which nothing was spoken as to the priesthood ; only he might in that of the gospel , but hath judged meet to commit the actual administration of them to others ? so is it with the magistrate also . thus far then christ and the magistrate seem to stand on even or equal terms ; but there are two things remaining that absolutely turn the scale and cast the advantage on the magistrates side . for first , men may do and practise many things in the worship of god which the lord christ hath no where , nor by any means required ; yea to think that his word or the revelation of his mind and will therein , is the sole and adequate rule of religious worship , is reported as an opinion foolish , absurd , impious and destructive of all government . if this be not supposed not only the whole design of our author in this book is defeated , but our whole controversie also is composed and at an end . but on the other hand , no man must do or practise any thing in that way , but what is prescribed , appointed and commanded by the magistrate , upon pain of sin , schism , rebellion and all that follows thereon . to leave this unasserted is all that the non-conformists would desire in order unto peace . comprehension and indulgence would ensue thereon . here i think the magistrate hath the advantage . but that which follows will make it yet more evident ; for secondly , suppose the magistrate require any thing to be done and observed in the worship of god , and the lord christ require the quite contrary in a mans own apprehension , so that he is as well satisfied in his apprehension of his mind as he can be of any thing that is proposed to his faith and conscience in the word of god ; in this case he is to obey magistrate , and not christ , as far as i can learn ; unless all confusion and disorder be admitted an entrance into the world . yea , but this seems directly contrary to that rule of the apostles , which hath such an evidence and power of rational conviction attending it , that they refer it to the judgement of their adversaries , and those persons of as perverse corrupt minds and prejudicate engagements against them and their cause , as ever lived in the world ; namely , whether it be meet to obey god or man , judge ye . but we are told , that this holds only in greater matters ; the logick ( by the way ) of which distinction , is as strange as its divinity . for if the formal reason of the difference intimated , arise from the comparison between the authority of god and man , it holds equally as to all things small or great that they may be oppositely concerned in . besides who shall judge what is small , or what is great in things of this nature ? cave ne titubes . grant but the least judgement to private men themselves in this matter , and the whole fabrick tumbles ; if the magistrate be judge of what is great and of what is little , we are still where we were without hopes of delivery . and this to me is a notable instance of the preheminence of the magistrate above christ in this matter . some of the old irish have a proverbial speech amongst them , that if christ had not been christ when he was christ , patrick had been christ ; but it seems now that takeing it for granted that he was christ , yet we have another that is so also ; that is lord over the souls and consciences of men ; and what can be said more of him , who sits in the temple of god , and shews himself to be god. as we formerly said non-conformists who are unacquainted with the mysteries of things of this nature , must needs desire to know whether these be the avowed principles of the church of england , or whether they are only inventions to serve a present turn of the pursuit of some mens designs . are all the old pleas of the jus divinum of episcopacy , of example and direction apostolical , of a parity of reason between the condition of the church whilst under extraordinary officers , and whilst under ordinary ; of the power of the church to appoint ceremonies for decency and order , of the consistency of christian liberty with the necessary practice of indifferent things , of the pattern of the churches of old , which ( whether , duly or otherwise we do not now determine ) have been insisted on in this cause , swallowed all up in this abysse of magistratical omnipotency , which plainly renders them useless and unprofitable ? how unhappy hath it been that the christian world was not sooner blessed with this great discovery of the only way and means of putting a final end , unto all religious contests ? that he should not until now appear , qui genus humanum ingenio superavit , & omnes praestrinxit stellas , exortus at aetherius sol . but every age produceth not a columbus . many indeed have been the disputes of learned men about the power of magistrates in and concerning religion . with us it is stated in the recorded actings of our soveraign princes , in the oath of supremacy , and the acts of parliament concerning it , with other authentick writings explanatory thereof . some have denyed him any concern herein ; our author is none of them ? but rather like the phrenetick gentleman who when he was accused in former dayes , for denying the corporal presence of christ in the sacrament : replyed in his own defence , that he believed him to be present booted and spurred as he rode to capernaum . he hath brought him in booted and spurred , yea armed cap-a-pie into the church of god , and given all power into his hands to dispose of the worship of god according to his own will and pleasure . and that not with respect unto outward order only , but with direct obligation upon the consciences of men . but doubtless it is the wisdom of soveraign princes to beware of this sort of enemies ; persons who to promote their own interest make ascriptions of such things unto them , as they cannot accept of , without the utmost hazzard of the displeasure of god. is it meet that to satisfie the desires of any , they should invade the prerogative of god , or set themselves down at his right hand in the throne of his only begotten son ? i confess they are no way concerned in what others for their advantage sake , as they suppose , will ascribe unto them , which they may sufficiently disown by scorn and silence . nor can their sin involve them in any guilt . it was not the vain acclamation of the multitude unto herod , the voice of god and not of man , but his own arrogant satisfaction in that blasphemous assignation of divine glory to him , that exposed him to the judgements and vengeance of god. when the princes of israel found by the answer of the reubenites that they had not transgressed against the law of gods worship , in adding unto it or altering of it , which they knew would have been a provocation not to have been passed over without a recompence of revenge ; they replyed unto them , now have you delivered the children of israel out of the hand of the lord ; and it is to be desired that all the princes of the israel of god in the world , all christian potentates , would diligently watch against giving admission unto any such insinuations , as would deliver them into the hand of the lord. for my own part , such is my ignorance , that i know not , that any magistrate from the foundation of the world , unless it were nebuchadnezzar , cai●s caligula , domitian and persons like to them , ever claimed or pretended to exercise the power here assigned unto them . the instances of the laws and edicts of constantine in the matters of religion and the worship of god , of theodosius and gratian , arcadius , martian and other emperours of the east remaining in the code and novels ; the capitular of the western emperours , and laws of gothish kings , the right of ecclesiastical jurisdiction inherent in the imperial crown of this nation , and occasionally exercised in all ages are of no concernment in this matter . for no man denyes but that it is the duty of the supream magistrate to protect and further the true religion , and right worship of god , by all wayes and means suited and appointed of god thereunto . to encourage the professors thereof , to protect them from wrong and violence , to secure them in the performance of their duties , is doubtless incumbent on them . whatever under pretence of religion brings actual disturbance unto the peace of mankind , they may coerce and restrain . when religion as established in any nation by law , doth or may interest the professors of it , or guides in it , in any priviledges , advantages , or secular emoluments , which are subject and lyable , as all humane concerns , to doubts , controversies , and litigious contests in their security and disposal , all these things depend meerly and solely on the power of the magistrate , by whose authority they are originally grantted , and by whose jurisdictive power both the persons vested with them , and themselves are disposable . but for an absolute power over the consciences of men to bind or oblige them formally thereby , to do whatever they shall require in the worship of god , so as to make it their sin deserving eternal damnation not so to do , without any consideration whether the things are true or false , according to the mind of god or otherwise , yea though they are apprehended by them who are so obliged to practise them , to be contrary to the will of god , that this hath hitherto been claimed by any magistrate , unless such as those before mentioned , i am yet to seek . and the case is the same with respect unto them who are not satis●ied that what is so prescribed unto them will be accepted with god. for whereas in all that men do in the worship of god , they ought to be fully perswaded of its acceptableness to god in their own minds , seeing whatever is not of faith is sin , he that doubteth is in a very little better capacity to serve god on such injunctions , then he who apprehendeth them to be directly contrary to his mind . if an edict were drawn up for the settlement of religion and religious worship in any christian nation , according to the principles and directions before laid down , it may be there would be no great strife in the world by whom it should be first owned and espoused . for it must be of this importance . whereas we have an vniversal and absolute power over the consciences of all our subjects in things appertaining to the worship of god ; so that if we please we can introduce new duties , ( never yet heard of , ) in the most important parts of religion ( pag. . ) and may impose on them in the practice of religion and divine worship what we please ; so that in our judgement it doth not countenance vice , nor disgrace the deity , ( pag. . ) and whereas this power is naturally inherent in us , not given or granted unto us by jesus christ , but belonged to us , or our predecessors before ever he was born , nor is expressed in the scripture , but rather supposed ; and this being such as that we our selves if we would , ( whether we be man or woman ) ( here france must be excepted by vertue of the salique law , though the whole project be principally calculated for that meridian ) might exercise the special offices and duties of religion in our own person , especially that of the priesthood , though me are pleased to transfer the exercise of it unto others ; and whereas all our prescriptions , impositions , and injunctions , in these things , do immediately affect and bind the consciences of our subjects because they are ours , whether they be right or wrong , true or false , so long as in our judgement they neither ( as was said ) countenance vice nor disgrace the deity , we do enact and ordain as followeth . ( here , if you please , you may intersert the scheme of religion given us by our author in his second chapter , and add unto it ; that because sacrifices were a way found out by honest men of old , to express their gratitude unto god thereby , so great and necessary a part of our religious duty ; it be enjoyned that the use of them be again revived ; seeing there is nothing in them that offends against the bounds prescribed to the power to be expressed ; and that men in all places do offer up bulls and goats , sheep , and fowls , to god , with as many other institutions of the like nature , as shall be thought meet ; ) hereunto add , now our express will and pleasure is , that every man may , and do think and judge what he pleaseth concerning the things enjoyned and enacted by vs ; for what have we to do with their thoughts and judgements ? they are under the empire and dominion of conscience , which we cannot invade if we would ; they may if they please judge them inconvenient , foolish , absurd , yea contrary to the mind , will , and law of god : our only intention , will and pleasure is , to bind them to the constant observation and practice of them , and that under the penalties of hanging and damnation . i know not any expression in such an impious and futilous edict , that may not be warranted out of the principles of this discourse ; the main parts of it being composed out of the words and phrases of it , and those used , to the best of my understanding , in the sense fixed to them by our author . now , as was said before , i suppose christian princes will not be earnest in their contests , who shall first own the authority intimated , and express it in a suitable exercise . and if any one of them should put forth his hand unto it , he will find that — furiarum maxima juxta accubat , & manibus prohibet contingere mensas . there is one who layes an antecedent claim to a sole interest in this power , and that bottomed on other manner of pretensions than any as yet have been pleaded in their behalf . for the power and authority here ascribed unto princes , is none other but that which is claimed by the pope of rome , ( with some few enlargements ) and appropriated unto him by his canonists and courtiers . only here the old gentleman , ( as he is called by our author ) hath the advantage ; that beside the precedency of his claim , it being entred on record at least six or seven hundred years before any proctor or advocate appeared in the behalf of princes , he hath forestall'd them all in the pretence of infallibility ; which doubtless is a matter of singular use in the exercise of the power contended about . for some men are so peevish as to think that thus to deal with religion and the consciences of men , belongs to none but him , who is absolutely , yea essentially so , that is infallible . for as we have now often said ( as contrary to their design men in haste oftentimes speak the same things over and over ) as to all ecclesiastical jurisdiction over persons and causes ecclesiastical , and the soveraign disposal of all the civil and political concernments of religion which is vested in the imperial crown of this nation , and by sundry acts of parliament is declared so to be , i shall be alwayes ready to plead the right of our kings , and all christian kings whatever , against the absurd pleas and pretences of the pope ; so as to this controversie between him and such princes as shall think meet to contend with him about it , concerning the power over the consciences of men before described , i shall not interpose my self in the scuffle ; as being fully satisfied they are contending about that which belongs to neither of them . but what reason is there , why this power should not be extended unto the inward thoughts and apprehensions of men about the worship of god , as well as to the expression of them in pure spiritual acts of that worship . the power asserted i presume will be acknowledged to be from god ; though i can scarce meet with the communication and derivation of it from him in this discourse . but whereas , it is granted on all hands , that the powers that be are of god , and that none can have authority over an other , unless it be originally given him from above ; i desire to be informed why the other part of the power mentioned , namely over the thoughts , judgements , and apprehensions of men in the things of the worship of god , should not be invested in the magistrate also ; that so he having declared what is to be believed , thought , and judged in such things , all men should be obliged so to believe , think , and judge ; for this power god can give ; and hath given it unto jesus christ. i presume , it will be said , that this was no way needful for the preservation of peace in humane society , which is the end for which all this power is vested in the magistrate . for let men believe , think , and judge what they please , so long as their outward actings are , or may be over-ruled , there is no danger of any publick disturbance . but this seems to be a mighty uneasie condition for mankind ; namely to live continually in a contradiction between their judgements and their practices , which in this case is allowed to be incident unto them . constantly to judge one way best and most according to the mind of god in his worship , and constantly to practise another , will , it is to be feared , prove like the conflicting of vehement vapours with their contrary qualities , that at one time or other will produce an earthquake . how then if men weary of this perplexing distorting condition of things in their minds , should be provoked to run to excesses and inordinate courses for their freedom and rest , such as our author excellently displayes in all their hideous colours and appearances , and which are really pernicious to humane policy and society ? were it not much better that all these inconveniencies had been prevented in the first instance , by taking care that the faith , thoughts , perswasions , and judgements of all subjects about the things of god , should be absolutely bound up unto the declared conceptions of their rulers in these matters ? let it not be pretended , that this is impossible , and contrary to the natural liberty of the minds of men , as rational creatures guiding and determining themselves according to their own reason of things and understandings . for do but fix the declared will of the ruler , in the room and place of divine revelation , ( which is no hard matter to do , which some actually do universally , and our author as to a great share and proportion ) and the obligation sought after to prevent all inconvencies in government , falls as full and directly upon the minds , thoughts , and judgements of men , as upon any of their outward actions . and this , for the substance of it , is now pleaded for ; seeing it is pretended that in all things dubious , where men cannot satisfie themselves that it is the will of god that they should do a thing , or no , the declaration of the magistrate determines not only their practice , but their judgement also , and gives them that full perswasion of their minds which is indispensably required unto their acting in such things ; and that faith which frees them from sin ; for he that doubteth , is damned if he eat . but it will be said , that there will be no need hereof ; for let men think and judge what they please , whilst they are convinced and satisfied that it is their duty not to practise any thing outwardly in religion , but what is prescribed by their rulers , it is not possible that any publick evil should ensue upon their mental conceptions only . we observed before that the condition described is exceedingly uneasie ; which i suppose will not be denyed by men who have seriously considered , what it is either to judge or practise any thing that lyes before them with reference unto the judgment of god. and that which should tye men up to rest perpetually in such a restless state , is as it seems a meer conviction of their duty . they ought to be , and are supposed to be convinced that it is their duty to maintain the liberty of their minds and judgements , but to submit in their outward practice universally to the laws of men that are over them . and this sense and conviction of duty , is a sufficient security unto publick tranquility , in all that contrariety and opposition of sentiments unto established religion and forms of worship that may be imagined ; but if this be so ; why will not the same conviction and sense of duty restrain them , who do peaceably exercise the worship of god according to the light and dictates of their consciences , from any actings whatever that may tend to the disturbance of the publick peace ? duty , nakedly considered , is even as such , the greatest obligation on the minds of men ; and the great security of others in their actings ariseth from the●c● . 〈◊〉 more it is influenced and advantaged by outward considerations , the less it is assaulted and opposed by things grievous and perplexing in the way of the discharge of it , the more efficacious will be its operations on the minds of men , and the firmer will be the security unto others that thence ariseth . now these advantages lye absolutely on the part of them who practise , or are allowed so to do , according to their own light and perswasion in the worship of god , wherein they are at rest and full satisfaction of mind ; and not on theirs who all their dayes are bound up to a perverse distorted posture of mind and soul , in judging one thing to be best and most pleasing unto god , and practising of the contrary . such an one , is the man that of all others , rulers have need i think to be most jealous of . for what security can be had of him , who hath inured himself unto a continual contradiction between his faith and his practice ? for my part i should either expect no other measure from him in any other thing , nor ever judge that his profession and wayes of actings are any sufficient indications of his mind , ( which takes away all security from mankind ) or fear that his convictions of light and knowledge , ( as he apprehends ) would at one time or other precipitate him into attempts of irregularity and violence for his own relief . — hic nig●r est , hunc tu romane caveto . it will be said , perhaps , that we need not look farther for the disturbance of publick peace , from them who practise outwardly any thing in the worship of god but what is prescribed , established , and enjoyned ; seeing that every such practice is such a disturbance it self . i say this pretence is miserably ridiculous and contemptible , and contrary to the common experience of mankind . if this were so , the whole world for years , lived in one continual disturbance and tumult upon the account of christian religion , whose professors constantly practised and performed that in the worship of god , which was so far from being established or approved by publick authority , that it was proscribed and condemned under penalties of all sorts , pecuniary , corporal , and sanguinary or capital . but we see no such matter ensued , nor the least disquietment unto the world , but what was given unto it by the rage of bloody persecutors , that introduced the first convulsions into the roman empire , which were never well quieted , but ended in its dissolution . the experience also of the present and next preceding ages , casts this frivolous exception out of consideration . and as such a practice , even against legal prohibitions , though it be by the transgression of a penal law , is yet in it self and just consequence remote enough from any disturbance of government , ( unless we should suppose that every non-observance of a penal statute invalidates the government of a nation , which were to fix it upon such a foundation , as will not afford it the steddiness of a weathercok ; ) so being allowed by way of exemption , it contains no invasion upon , or intrusion into the rights of others ; but being accompanied with the abridgement of the priviledges of none , or the neglect of any duty required to the good of the common-wealth , it is as consistent with , and may be as conducing to publick good and tranquility , as any order of religious things in the world , as shall be elsewhere demonstrated . it remains therefore that the only answer to this consideration is , that men who plead for indulgence and liberty of conscience in the worship god according to his word , and the light which he hath given them therein , have indeed no conscience at all , and so are not to be believed as to what they profess against sinister and evil practises . this flaile i know no fence against , but this only ; that they have as good and better grounds to suspect him to have no conscience at all , who upon unjust surmises shall so injuriously charge them , as finding him in a direct transgression of the principal rules that conscience is to be guided and directed by , than he hath to pronounce such a judgement concerning them and their sincerity in what they prosess . and whether such mutual censures tend not to the utter overthrow of all peace , love , and security amongst mankind is easie to determine . certainly it is the worst game in the world for the publick , to have men bandying suspicions one against another ; and thereon managing mutual charges of all that they do surmise , or what else they please to give the countenance of surmise unto . i acknowledge the notion insisted on , namely , that mhilest men reserve to themselves the freedom and liberty of judging what they please , or what seems good unto them in matters of religion and the worship of god , they ought to esteem it their duty to practise in all things according to the prescription of their rulers , though every may contrary unto , and inconsistent with their own judgements and perswasions , unless it be in things that countenance vice , or disgrace the deity ( where of yet it may be , it will not be thought meet that they themselves should judge for themselves and their own practise , seeing they may extend their conceptions about what doth so unto such minute instances as would frustrate the whole design ) is exceedingly accommodated to the corrupt lusts and affections of men , and suited to make provision for their security in this world , by an exemption from the indispensable command of professing the truth communicated and known unto them ; a sense of the obligation where of , hath hitherto exposed innumerable persons in all ages to great difficulties , dangers , and sufferings , yea to death the height and summ of all . for whereas men have been perswaded that with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ; the latter clause is in many cases hereby sufficiently superseded ; and the troublesome duty seeming to be required in it , is removed out of the way . it will not , it may be , be so easie to prove that in the religion of the mahumetans there is any thing enjoyned in practise , that will directly fall under the limitations assigned unto the complyance with the commands of supeperiours contended for . and therefore let a man but retain his own apprehensions concerning jesus christ and the gospel , it may be lawful for him , yea be his duty to observe the worship enjoyned by the law of mahomet , if his lot fall to live under the power of the grand seignior , or any soveraign prince of the same perswasion . but the case is clear in the religion of the papists , which is under the protection of the greatest number of supream magistrates in europe . it will not be pretended , i suppose by our author , that there is any thing in the confession of the church of rome , or imposed by it on the practices of men , that directly gives countenance unto any immorality , especially as the sense of that term is by him stated ; and it is no easie matter for ordinary men to prove and satisfie themselves , that there is ought in their modes of worship of such a tendency , as to cast disgrace upon the deity ; especially considering with how much learning and diligence the charge of any such miscarriage is endeavoured to be answered and removed ; all which pleas ought to be satisfied , before a man can make sedately a determinate judgement of the contrary . let then men's judgements be what they will in the matters of difference between protestants and papists , it is on this hypothesis , the duty of all that live under the dominion of soveraign popish princes , outwardly to comply with and practise that religious worship that is commanded by them and enjoyned . the case is the same also as to the religion of the jews . now as this casts a reflection of incredible folly and unexpiable guilt upon all protestant martyrs , in casting away their own lives , and disobeying the commands of their lawful soveraigns ? so it exposeth all the protestants in the world who are still in the same condition of subjection , to the severe censures of impiety and rebellion ; and must needs exasperate their rulers to pursue them to destruction , under pretence of unwarrantable obstinacy in them . for if we wholly take off the protection of conscience in this matter , and its subjection to the authority of god alone , there is no plea left to excuse dissenting protestants from the guilt of such crimes , as may make men justly cry out against them as the jews did against st. paul , away with them , away with them , it is not meet that such fellows should live ; or , frotestantes ad leones , according to the old cry of the pagans against the primitive christians . but if this should prove to be a way of teaching and justifying the grossest hypocrisie and dissimulation that the nature of man is capable of , a means to cast off all regard unto the authority of god over the wayes and lives of men , all the rhetorick in the world shall never perswade me that god hath so moulded and framed the order and state of humane affairs , that it should be any way needful to the preservation of publick peace and tranquility . openness , plainness of heart , sincerity in our actions and professions , generous honesty , and an universal respect in all things to the supream rector of all , the great possessour of heaven and earth , with an endeavour to comply with his present revealed mind , and future judgement , are far better foundations for , and ligaments of publick peace and quietness . to make this the foundation of our political superstructure , that divisum imperium cum jove caesar habet , god hath immediate and sole power over the minds and inward thoughts of men ; but the magistrate over the exercise of those thoughts in things especially belonging to the worship of god , and in the same instances , seems not to prognosticate a stable or durable building . the prophet was not of that mind of old , who in the name of god blamed the people for willingly walking after the commandment of their ruler , in concerns of worship not warranted by divine appointment ; nor was daniel so , who notwithstanding the severe prohibition made against his praying in his house , continued to do so three times a day . but besides all this ! i do not see how this hypothesis is necessarily subservient to the principal design of the author , but it may be as well improved to quite distant , yea contrary ends and purposes . his design plainly is , to have one fabrick of religion erected , one form of external worship enacted and prescribed , which all men should be compelled by penalties to the outward profession and observance of ; these penalties he would have to be such as should not fail of their end ; namely , of taking away all professed dissent from his religious establishment ; which if it cannot be effected without the destruction and death of multitudes , they also are not to be forborn . now how this ensues from the fore-mentioned principle i know not . for a supream magistrate , finding that the minds of very many of his subjects are in their judgements and perswasions engaged in a dissent unto the religion established by him , or somewhat in it , or some part of it , especially in things of practical worship ; though he should be perswaded that he hath so far a power over their consciences , as to command them to practise contrary to their judgement , yet knowing their minds and perswasions to be out of his reach and exempted from his jurisdiction , why may he not think it meet and conducing to publick tranquillity and all the ends of his government , even the good of the whole community committed to his charge , rather to indulge them in the quiet and peaceable exercise of the worship of god according to their own light , than alwayes to bind them unto that unavoidable disquietment which will ensue upon the conflict in their minds between their judgements and their practices , if he should oblige them as is desired . certainly , as in truth and reality , so according to this principle , he hath power so to do . for to fancy him such a power over the religion and consciences of his subjects , as that he should be inevitably bound on all occurrences and in all conditions of affairs , to impose upon them the necessary observation of one form of worship , is that which would quickly expose him to inextricable troubles . and instances of all sorts might be multiplyed to shew the ridiculous folly of such a conception . nay it implies a perfect contradiction to what is disputed before . for if he be obliged to settle and impose such a form on all , it must be because there was a necessity of somewhat antecedent to his imposition , whence his obligation to impose it did arise . and on such a supposisition it is in vain to enquire after his liberty or his power in these things , seeing by his duty he is absolutely determined , and whatever that be which doth so determine him and put an obligation upon him , it doth indispensably do the same on his subjects also ; which as it is known utterly excludes the authority pleaded for . this principle therefore indeed asserts his liberty to do what he judgeth meet in these matters , but contains nothing in it to oblige him to judge , that it may not be meet and most conducing unto all the ends of his government to indulge unto the consciences of men peaceable , ( especially if complying with him in all the fundamentals of the religion which himself professeth ) the liberty of worshiping god according to what they apprehend of his own mind and will. and let an application of this principle be made to the present state of this nation , wherein there are so great multitudes of persons peaceable and not unuseful unto publick good , who dissent from the present establishment of outward worship , and have it not in their power either to change their judgements or to practise contrary unto them ; and as it is in the power of the supream magistrate to indulge them in their own way , so it will prove to be his interest as he is the spring and center of of publick peace and prosperity . neither doth it appear that in this discourse our author hath had any regard either to the real principles of the power of the magistrate as stated in this nation , or to his own which are fictitious ; but yet such as ought to be obligatory to himself ; his principal assertion is , that the supream magistrate hath power to bind the consciences of men in matters of religion , that is by laws and edicts to that purpose ; now the highest and most obligatory way of the supream magistrates speaking in england , is by acts of parliament ; it is therefore supposed that what is so declared in or about matters of religion , should be obligatory to the conscience of this author ; but yet quite otherwise , p. . he sets himself to oppose and condemn a publick law of the land , on no other ground than because it stood in his way , and seemed incompliant with his principles . for whereas the law of and ed. . which appointed two weekly dayes for abstinence from flesh , had been amongst other reasons prefaced with this , that the kings subjects having now a more clear light of the gospel through the infinite mercy of god ( such canting language was then therein used ) and thereby the kings majesty perceiving that one meat of it self was not more holy than another , &c. yet considering that due abstinence , was a means to vertue , and to subdue mens bodies to their souls and spirits , &c. and it being after found ( it should seem by a farther degree of light ) that those expressions meeting with the inveterate opinions of some , newly brought out of popery , had given countenance to them to teach or declare , that something of religion was placed therein ; thereon by the law made elizab. adding another weekly day to be kept with the former for the same purpose , the former clause was omitted , and mention only made therein of the civil and politique reasons inducing the legislators thereunto ; and withall a penalty of inflicting punishment on those who should affirm and maintain that there was any concernment of conscience and religion in that matter . this provision hath so distasted our author , that forgetting it seems his own design , he reproaches it with the title of jejunium cecilianum ; and thinks it so far from obliging his conscience to acquiess in the determination therein made , that he will not allow it to give law to his tongue or pen ; but ( vexet censura columbas ) it seems they are the phanaticks only that are thus to be restrained . moreover on occasion hereof we might manifest how some other laws of this land do seem carefully to avoid that imposition on conscience , which against law and reason he pleadeth for ; for instance in that of jacob. touching usury , and the restraint of it unto the summ therein established , it was provided , that no words in this act conteined shall be construed or expounded to allow the practise of vsury in point of religion and conscience . and why did not the supream magistrate in that law determine and bind the consciences of men , by a declaration of their duty in a point of religion ; seeing whether way soever the determination had been made , neither would immorality have been countenunced , nor the deity disgraced ? but plainly it is rather declared , that he hath not cogni●●●ce of such things with reference to the consciences of men to oblige them , or set them at liberty , but only power to determine what may be practised in order to publick profit and peace . and therefore the law would neither bind , nor set at liberty the consciences of men in such cases , which is a work for the supream law-giver only . neither , as it hath been before observed , do the principles here asserted and contended for , either express or represent the supremacy of the kings of this nation in matters ecclesiastical as it is stated and determined by themselves in parliament ; but rather so , as to give great offence and scandal to the religion here professed and advantage to the adversaries thereof ; for after there appeared some ambiguity in those words of the oath enacted eliz. of testifying the queen to be supream governour as well in all spiritual or ecclesiastical things or causes , as in temporal ; and many doubts and scruples ensued thereon , as though there were assigned to her a power over the consciences of her subjects in spiritual things , or that she had a power her self to order and administer spiritual things ; in quinto elizab. it is enacted by way of explanation , that the oaths aforesaid shall be expounded in such form as is set forth in the admonition annexed to the queens injunctions , published in the first year of her reign , where disclaiming the power of the ministry of divine offices in the church , or the power of the priesthood here by our author affixed to the supream magistrate , her power and authority is declared to be a soveraignty over all manner of persons born within this realm , whether they be ecclesiastical or temporal , so that no foraign power hath , or ought to have any superiority over them ; and so is this supremacy stated in the articles anno . namely an autho●ity to rule all estates and degrees committed to the charge of the supream magistrate by god , whether they be ecclesiastical or temporal , and to restrain the stubborn or evil-doers . of the things contended for by our author ; the authority of the priesthood , and power over the consciences of men in matters of religion there is not one word in our laws , but rather they are both of them rejected and condemned . i have yet laid the least part of that load upon this principle , which if it be farther pressed it must expect to be burdened withal , and that from the common suffrage of christians in all ages . but yet that i may not transgress against the design of this short and hasty discourse , i shall proceed no farther in the pursuit of it ; but take a little survey of what is here pleaded in its defence . now this is undertaken and pursued in the first chapter , with the two next ensuing , where an end is put to this plea. for if i understand any thing of his words and expressions , our author in the beginning of his fourth chapter , cuts down all those gourds and wild vines that he had been planting in the three preceding ; for he not only grants but disputes also for an obligation on the consciences of men antecedent and superiour unto all humane laws and their obligation ; his words are as followeth , pag. . it is not because subjects are in any thing free from the authority of the supream power on earth , but because they are subject to a superiour in heaven ; and they are only then excused from the duty of obedience to their soveraign when they cannot give it without rebellion against god ; so that it is not originally any right of their own that exempts them from a subjection to the soveraign power in all things ; but it is purely gods right of governing his own creatures that magistrates then invade when they make edicts to violate or controll his laws ; and those who will take off from the consciences of men , all obligations antecedent to those of humane laws , instead of making the power of princes , supream , absolute , and uncontrollable , they utterly enervate all their authority , and set their subjects at perfect liberty from all their commands . i know no men that pretend to exemption from the obligation of humane laws , but only on this plea , that god by his law requires them to do otherwise ; and if this be so , the authority of such laws as to the consciences of men , is superseded by the confession of this author . allow therefore but the principles here expressed , namely , that men have a superiour power over them in heaven , whose laws , and the revelation of whose will concerning them , is the supream rule of their duty , whence an obligation is laid upon their consciences of doing whatever is commanded , or not doing what is forbidden by him , which is superiour unto , and actually supersedes all humane commands and laws that interfere therewith , and i see neither use of , nor place for that power of magistrates over the consciences of men , which is so earnestly contended for . and our author also in his ensuing discourse in that chapter , placeth all the security of government in the respect that the consciences of men have to the will and command of god ; and which they profess to have ; which in all these chapters he pleads to be a principle of all confusion . but it is the first chapter which alone we are now taking a view of . the only argument therein insisted on to to make good the ascription unto the magistrate of the power over religion and the consciences of men before described , is the absolute and indispensable necessity of it , unto publick tranquility , which is the principal , and most important end of government . in the pursuit of this argument , sometimes yea often , such expressions are used concerning the magistrates power , as in a tolerable construction declare it to be what no man denyes nor will contend about . but it is necessary that they be interpreted according to the genius and tenor of the opinion contended for , and accordingly we will consider them . this alone i say is that which is here pleaded , or is given in as the subject of the ensuing discourse . but after all , i think that he who shall set himself seriously to find out how any thing here spoken , hath a direct and rational cogency towards the establishment of the conclusion before laid down , will find himself engaged in no easie an undertakeing . we were told i confess at the entrance ( so as that we may not complain of a surprizal ) that we must expect to have invectives twisted with arguments , and some such thing seems here to be aimed at ; but if a logical chymist come , and make a separation of the elements , of this composition , he will find , if i mistake not , an heap of the drossy invective , and scarce the least appearance of any argument ore. instead of sober rational arguing , — crimina rasis librat in antithetis ; — great aggravations of mens miscarriages in the pursuit of the dictates of their consciences , either real or feigned , edged against , and fiercely reflected upon those whom he makes his adversaries , and these the same for substance , repeated over and over in a great variety of well placed words , take up the greatest part of his plea in this chapter ; especially the beginning of it , wherein alone the controversie as by himself stated is concerned . but if the power and authority over religion and the consciences of men here ascribed unto supream magistrates , be so indispensably necessary to the preservation of publick tranquility , as is pretended , a man cannot but wonder how the world hath been in any age past , kept in any tolerable peace and quietness ; and how it is any where blessed with those ends of government at this day . for it will not be an easie task for our author , or any one else to demonstrate that the power mentioned , hath ever been either claimed or exercised by any supream magistrate in christendom , or that it is so at this day . the experience of past and present ages , is therefore abundantly sufficient to defeat this pretence , which is sufficiently asserted , without the least appearance of proof or argument to give it countenance or confirmation ; or they must be very charitable to him , or ignorant in themselves , who will mistake invectives for arguments . the remembrance indeed of these severities i would willingly lay aside ; especially because the very mention of them seems to express an higher sense of and regret concerning them , then i am in the least subject unto , or something that looks like a design of retaliation ; but as these things are far from my mind , so the continual returns that almost in every page i meet with , of high and contemptuous reproaches , will not allow that they be alwayes passed by without any notice or remark . it is indeed indispensably necessary that publick peace and tranquility be preserved ; but that there is any thing in point of government necessary hereunto , but that god have all spiritual power over the consciences of men , and rulers political power over their actings wherein publick peace and tranquility are concerned , the world hath not hitherto esteemed , nor do i expect to find it proved by this author . if these things will not preserve the publick peace , it will not be kept if one should rise from the dead to perswade men unto their duty . the power of god over the consciences of men , i suppose is acknowledged by all who own any such thing as conscience or believe there is a god over all . that also in the exercise of this authority , he requires of men all that obedience unto rulers that is any way needfull or expedient unto the preservation of the ends of their rule , is a truth standing firm on the same foundation of universal consent , derived from the law of creation ; and his positive commands to that purpose , have an evidence of his will in this matter not liable to exception or controll . this conscience unto god our author confesseth ( as we have observed , in his fourth chapter , to be the great preservation and security of goverment and governours , with respect unto the ends mentioned . and if so , what becomes of all the pretences of disorder and confusion that will ensue , unless this power over mens consciences be given to the magistrate and taken as it were out of the hands of god ? nor is it to be supposed that men will be more true to their consciences supposing the reiglement of them in the hand of men , than when they are granted to be in the hand and power of god ; for both at present are supposed to require the same things . certainly where conscience respects authority , as it always doth , the more absolute and soveraign it apprehends the authority by which it is obliged , the greater and more firm will be the impressions of the obligation upon it . and in that capacity of preheminence , it must look upon the authority of god compared with the authority of man. here then lyes the security of publick peace and tranquility , as it is backed by the authority of the magistrate , to see that all outward actions are suitable unto what conscience toward god doth in this matter openly and unquestionably require . the pretence indeed is that the placing of this authority over the consciences of men in the supream ruler , doth obviate and take away all grounds and occasions of any such actings on the account of religion , as may tend unto publick disturbance . for suppose conscience in things concerning religion and the worship of god subject to god alone , and the magistrate require such things to be observed in the one or the other as god hath not required , at least in the judgements and consciences of them of whom the things prescribed are required , and to forbid the things that god requires to be observed and done ; in this case it is said they cannot or will not comply in active obedience with the commands of the magistrate . but what if it so fall out ? doth it thence follow that such persons must needs rebell and be seditious and disturb the publick peace , of the society whereof they are members ? wherefore is it that they do not do or observe what is required of them by the magistrate in religion or the worship of god , or that they do what he forbids ? is it not because of the authority of god over their minds and consciences in these things ? and why should it be supposed that men will answer the obligations laid by god on their consciences in one thing , and not in another ; in the things of his worship and not of obedience unto civil power , concerning which his commands are as express and evident , as they can be pretended to be in the things which they avow their obligation unto . experience is pretended to the contrary . it is said again and again , that men under pretence of their consciences unto god in religion , have raised wars and tumults , and brought all things into confusion , in this kingdom and nation especially ; and what will words avail against the evidence of so open an experience to the contrary ? but what if this also should prove a false and futilous pretence ? fierce and long wars have been in this nation of old , upon the various titles of persons pleading their right unto supream government in the kingdom , against one another ; so also have there been about the civil rights and the priviledges of the subjects , in the confusions commonly called the barons wars . the late troubles , disorders , and wars amongst us must bear the weight of this whole charge . but if any one will take the pains to review the publick writings , declarations , treaties whereby those tumults and wars were begun and carried on , he will easily discern that liberty of conscience in practice , or the exemption of it from the power of the magistrate as to the rule and conduct of it now ascribed unto him , in the latitude by sober persons defended or pleaded for , had neither place in , nor influence into the beginnings of those troubles . and when such confusions are begun , no man can give assurance or conjecture where they shall end . authority , laws , priviledges , and i know not what things wherein private men of whom alone we treat ▪ have no pretence of interest , were pleaded in those affairs . he that would judge aright of these things , must set aside all other considerations , and give his instance of the tumults and seditions that have ensued on the account of menskeeping their consciences entire for god alone , without any just plea , or false pretence of authority , and the interest of men in the civil concerns of nations . however it cannot be pretended that liberty of conscience gave the least occasion unto any disorders in those dayes . for indeed there was none , but only that of opinion and judgement , which our author placeth out of the magistrates cognizance and dispose ; and supposeth it is as a thing wherein the publick peace neither is nor can be concerned . it is well if it prove so ; but this liberty of judgement constantly prest with a practice contrary to its own determinations , will i fear prove the most dangerous posture of the minds of men in reference to publick tranquillity , that they can be well disposed into . however we may take a little nearer view of the certain remedy provided for all these evils by our author , and satisfie our selves in some enquiries about it . shall then according to this expedient the supream magistrate govern , rule , and oblige unto obedience the consciences of his subjects universally in all things in religion and the worship of god , so that appoint what he please , forbid what he please , subjects are bound in concience to observe them and yield obedience accordingly ? his answer as far as i can gather his meaning is , that he may and must do so in all things , taking care that what he commands shall neither countenance vice , nor disgrace the deity , and then the subjects are obliged according to the enquiry . but yet there seems another limitation to be given to this power p. . where he affirms , that the lord christ hath given severe injunctions to secure the obedience of men to all lawful superiours , except where they run directly cross to the interest of the gospel ; and elsewhere he seems to give the same priviledge of exemption , where a religion is introduced that is idolatrous or superstitious . i would then a little farther enquire , who shall judge whether the things commanded in religion and the worship of god be idolatrous or superstitious ? whether they cross directly the interest of the gospel ? whether they countenance vice , and disgrace the deity , or no. to say that the magistrate is to judge and determine hereof , is the highest foppery imaginable . for no magistrate , unless he be distracted , will enjoyn such a religion to observance , as he judgeth himself to fall under the qualifications mentioned ; and when he hath done declare that so they do , and yet require obedience unto them . besides , if this judgement be solely committed unto him , indeed in the issue there neither is , nor can be any question for a judgement to be passed upon in this matter . for his injunction doth quite render useless all disquisitions to that purpose . the judgement and determination hereof therefore is necessary to be left unto the subjects , from whom obedience is required . so it lyes in the letter of the proposal , they must obey in all things but such ; and therefore surely must judge what is such and what is not . now who shall fix bounds to what they will judge to fall under one or other of these limitations ? if they determine according to the best light they have that the religious observances enjoyned by the magistrate do directly cross the interest of the gospel , they are absolved by our author from any obligation in conscience to their observation . and so we are just as before ; and this great engine for publick tranquility vanisheth into air and smoak . thus this author himself in way of objection supposeth a case of a magistrate enjoyning , as was said , a religion superstitious and idolatrous ; this he acknowledgeeth to be an inconvenience ; yet such as is far beneath the mischiefs the ensue upon the exemption of the consciences of men in religion from the power of the the magistrate , which i confess i cannot but admire at , and can give reasons why i do so admire it ; which also may be given in due season . but what then is to be done in this case ? he answers , it is to be born : true , but how ? is it to be so born as to practise and observe the things so enjoyned though superstitious and idolatrous ? though his words are dubious , yet i suppose he will not plainly say so ; not can he unless he will teach men to cast off all respect unto the authority of god , and open such a door to atheism , as his rhetorical prefatory invective will not be able to shut . the bearing then intended must be by patient suffering in a refusal to practise what is so commanded , and observing the contrary commands of god. but why in this case ought they to suffer quietly for refusing a compliance with what is commanded , and for their observance of the contrary precepts of the gospel ? why , they must do so because of the command of god , obliging their consciences unto obedience to the magistrate in all things wherein the publick peace is concerned , and so that is absolutely secured . is it not evident to him that hath but half an eye that we are come about again where we were before ? let this be applyed to all the concernments of religion and religious worship , and there will arise with respect unto them , the same security which in this case is deemed sufficient , and all that humane affairs are capable of . for if in greater matters men may refuse to act according to the magistrates command , out of a sense of the authority of god obliging them to the contrary , and yet their civil peaceableness and obedience be absolutely secured from the respect of their consciences to the command of god requiring it ; why should it not be admitted that they may and will have the same respect to that command , when they dissent from the magistrates constitution in lesser things , on the same account of the authority of god requiring the contrary of them ? shall we suppose that they will cast off the authority of god requiring their obedience , on the account of their dissatisfaction in lesser things of the magistrates appointment , when they will not do so for all the violences that may be offered unto them in things of greater and higher importance ? the principle therefore asserted is as useless as it is false , and partakes sufficiently of both those properties to render it inconsiderable and contemptible . and he that can reconcile these things among themselves , or make them useful to the authors design , will atchieve what i dare not aspire unto . i know not any thing that remains in this first chapter deserving our farther consideration ; what seems to be of real importance , or to have any aspect towards the cause in hand , may undergoe some brief remarques , and so leave us at liberty to a farther progress . in general a supposition is laid down , and it is so vehemently asserted as is evident that it is accompanied with a desire that it should be taken for granted ; namely , that if the consciences of men be not regulated in the choice and practice of religion by the authority of the magistrate over them , they will undoubtedly run into principles and practices inconsistent with the safety of humane society , and such as will lead them to seditions and tumults ; and hence , ( if i understand him , a matter i am continually jealous about from the loosness of his expressions , though i am satisfied i constantly take his words in the words in the sense which is received of them by most intelligent persons ) he educeth all his reasonings , and not from a meer dissent from the magistrates injuctions , without the entertainment of such principles , or an engagement into such practices . i cannot i say , find the arguments that arise from a meer supposition that men in some things relating to the worship of god , will or do practise otherwise than the magistrate commands , which are used to prove the inconsistency of such a posture of things with publick tranquility , which yet alone was the province our author ought to have managed . but there is another supposition added , that where conscience is in any thing left unto its own liberty to choose or refuse in the worship of god , there it will embrace , sure enough , such wicked debauched and seditious principles , as shall dispose men unto commotions , rebellions , and all such evils as will actually evert all rule , order and policy amongst men . but now this supposition will not be granted him , in reference unto them who profess to take up all their profession of religion from the command of god , or the revelation of his will in the scripture , wherein all such principles and practices as those mentioned are utterly condemned ; and the whole profession of christianity being left for years without the rule , guidance , and conduct of conscience now contended for , did not once give the least disturbance unto the civil governments of the world. disturbances indeed there were , and dreadful revolutions of government in those dayes and places , when and where the professors of it lived ; but no concerns of religion being then involved in or with the civil rights and interests of men , as the professors of it had no engagements in them , so from those alterations and troubles no reflection could be made on their profession . and the like peace , the like innocency of religion , the like freedom from all possibility of such imputations as are now cast upon it , occasioned meerly by its intertexture with the affairs , rights , and laws of the nations , and the interests of its professours as such therein , will ensue , when it shall be separated from that relation wherein it stands to this world , and left as the pure naked tendency of the souls of men to another , and not before . but what , sayes our author , if for the present the minds of men happen to be tainted with such furious and boysterous conceptions of religion as incline them to stubbornness and sedition , and make them unmanageable to the laws of government , shall not a prince be allowed to give check to such unruly and dangerous perswasions ? i answer ; that such principles which being professed and avowed , are in their own nature and just consequence destructive to publick peace and humane society , are all of them directly opposite to the light of humane nature , that common reason and consent of mankind wherein and whereon all government is founded , with the prime fundamental laws and dictates of the scripture , and so may and ought to be restrained in the practises of the persons that profess them ; and with reference unto them the magistrate beareth not the sword in vain — for humane society being inseparably consequent unto , and and an effect of the law of our nature , or concreated principles of it , which hath subdued the whole race of mankind in all times and places unto its observance , opinions , perswasions , principles , opposite unto it or destructive of it , manifesting themselves by any sufficient evidence , or in overt acts , ought to be no more allowed than such as profess an enmity to the being and providence of god himself . for mens inclinations indeed , as in themselves considered , there is no competent judge of them amongst the sons of men ; but as to all outward actions that are of the tendency described , they are under publick inspection to be dealt withall according to their demerit . i shall only add that the mormo here made use of , is not now first composed or erected ; it hath for the substance of it been flourished by the papists ever since the beginning of the reformation . neither did they use to please themselves more in , or to dance more merrily about any thing than this calf ; let private men have their consciences exempted from a necessary obedience to the prescriptions of the church , and they will quickly run into all pernicious fancies and perswasions . it is known how this scare-crow hath been cast to the ground , and this calf stamped to powder by divines of the church of england . it is no pleasant thing i confess to see this plea revived now with respect to the magistrates authority , and not the popes ; for i fear that when it shall be manifested , and that by the consent of all parties , that there is no pleadable argument to botom this pretension for the power of the magistrate upon , some rather then forego it , will not be unwilling to recur to the fountain from whence it first sprang , and admit the popes plea as meet to be revived in this case . and indeed if we must come at length for the security of publick peace , to deprive all private persons of the liberty of judging what is right and wrong in religion in reference to their own practice , or what is their duty towards god about his worship and what is not , there are innumerable advantages attending the design of devolving the absolute determination of these things upon the pope , above that of committing it to each supream magistrate in his own dominions . for besides the plea of at least better security in his determinations than in that of any magistrates , if not his infallibility which he hath so long talked of , and so sturdily defended as to get it a great reputation in the world , the delivering up of the faith and consciences of all men unto him , will produce a seeming agreement , at least of incomparably a larger extent , then the remitting of all things of this nature to the pleasure of every supream magistrate , which may probably establish as many different religions in the world , as there are different nations kingdoms or commonwealths . that which alone remains seeming to give countenance to the assertions before laid down , is our authors assignation of the priesthood by natural right unto the supream magistrate , which in no alteration of religion he can be devested of , but by vertue of some positive law of god , as it was for a season in the mosaical institution and government . but these things seem to be of no force . for it never belonged to the priesthood , to govern or to rule the consciences of men with an absolute uncontrollable power ; but only in their name , and for them , to administer the holy things , which by common consent were admitted , and received amongst them . besides , our author by his discourse seems not to be much acquainted with the rise of the office of the priesthood amongst men , as shall be demonstrated , if farther occasion be given thereunto . however by the way we may observe what is his judgement in this matter . the magistrate we are told hath not his ecclesiastical authority from christ ; and yet this is such as that the power of the priesthood is included therein ; the exercise whereof as he is pleased to transfer to others , so he may , if he please , reserve it to himself , p. . whence it follows , not only that it cannot be given by christ unto any other , for it is part of the magistrates power ▪ which he hath not limited , nor confined by any subsequent law , nor can there be 〈◊〉 coordinate subject of the same power of several kinds ; so that all the interest or right any man , or men , have in or unto the exercise of it , is but transfer'd to them by the magistrate ; and therefore they act therein , in his name , and by his authority only ; and hence the bishops , as such , are said to be ministers of state , p. . neither can it be pretended that this was indeed in the power of the magistrate before the coming of christ , but not since . for he hath as we are told , all that he ever had , unless there be a restraint put upon him by some express prohibition of our saviour , p. . which will hardly be found in this matter . i cannot therefore see how in the exercise of the christian priesthood there is ( on these principles ) any the least respect unto jesus christ , or his authority ; for men have only the exercise of it transferred to them by the magistrate , by vertue of a power inherent in him antecedent unto any concessions of christ ; and therefore in his name and authority they must act in all the sacred offices of their functions . it is well if men be so far awake as to consider the tendency of these things . at length scripture proofs for the confirmation of these opinions are produced , p. , . and the first pleaded , is that promise , that kings shall be nursings fathers unto the church . it is true this is promised , and god accomplish it more and more ; but yet we do not desire such nurses , as beget the children they nurse ; the proposing , prescribing , commanding , binding religion on the consciences of men , is rather the begetting of it than its nursing . to take care of the church and religion , that it receive no detriment , by all the wayes and means appointed by god , and useful thereunto , is the duty of magistrates ; but it is so also antecedently to their actings unto this purpose , to discern aright which is the church whereunto this promise is made , without which they cannot duly discharge their trust , nor fulfill the promise it self ; the very words , by the rules of the metaphor , do imply , that the church , and its religion , and the worship of god observed therein , is constituted , fixed , and regulated by god himself , antecedently unto the magistrates duty and power about it . they are to nurse that which is committed to them , and not what themselves have framed , or begotten . and we contend for no more but a rule concerning religion , and the worship of god antecedent unto the magistrates interposing about it , whereby both his actings in his place , and those of subjects in theirs , are to be regulated mistakes herein have engaged many soveraign princes in pursuit of their trust as nursing fathers to the church , to lay out their strength and power for the utter ruine of it ; as may be evidenced in instances too many of those , who in a subserviency to , and by the direction of the papal interest , have endeavoured to extirpate true religion out of the world. such a nursing mother we had sometimes in england , who in pursuit of her care burned so many bishops and other holy men to ashes . he asks farther , what doth the scripture mean when it stiles our saviour the king of kings , and maketh princes his vicegerents here on earth ? i confess , according to this gentleman's principles , i know not what it means in so doing : kings , he tells us , have not their authority in and over religion , and the consciences of men from him , and therefore in the exercise of it cannot be his vicegerents ; for none is the vicegerent of another in the exercise of any power or authority , if he have not received that power and authority from him . otherwise the words have a proper sense , but nothing to our authors purpose . it is his power over them , and not theirs over the consciences of their subjects , that is intended in the words . of no more use in this controversie is the direction of the apostle , that we should pray for kings , that under them we may lead a quiet and peaceable life ; for no more is intended therein , but that , under their peaceable and righteous administration of humane affairs , we may live in that godliness , and honesty , which is required of us . wherefore then are these weak attempts made to confirm and prove what is not ? those , or the most of them , whom our author in this discourse treats with so much severity , do plead that it is the duty of all supream magistrates to find out , receive , imbrace , promote the truths of the gospel , with the worship of god appointed therein , confirming , protecting , and desending them , and those that embrace them , by their power and authority . and in the discharge of this duty , they are to use the liberty of their own judgements , enformed by the wayes that god hath appointed , independently on the dictates and determinations of any other persons whatever ; they affirm also , that to this end they are entrusted with supream power over all persons in their respective dominions , who on no pretence can be exempted from the exercise of that power , as occasion in their judgements shall require it to be exercised ; as also that all causes , wherein the profession of religion in their dominions is concerned , which are determinable in foro civili by coercive vmpirage or authority , are subject unto their cognizance and power . the soveraign power over the consciences of men to institute , appoint , and prescribe religion , and the worship of god , they affirm to belong unto him alone , who is the author and finisher of our faith , who is the head over all things to the church . the administration of things meerly spiritual in the worship of god is , they judge , derived immediately from him to the ministers , and administrators of the gospel , possessed of their offices by his command , and according to his institution ; as to the external practice of religion , and religious worship as such , it is , they say , in the power of the magistrate to regulate all the outward civil concernments of it , with reference unto the preservation of publick peace , and tranquillity , and the prosperity of his subjects ; and herein also they judge that such respect is to be had to the consciences of men , as the scripture , the nature of the thing it self , and the right of the l. christ to introduce his spiritual kingdom into all nations , do require . that which seems to have imposed on the mind of this author is , that if the magistrate may make laws for the regulating of the outward profession of religion , so as publick peace and tranquillity may be kept , added to what is his duty to do in the behalf of the truth ; then he must have the power over religion , and the consciences of men by him ascribed unto him ; but there is no privity of interest between these things ; the laws , which he makes to this purpose , are to be regulated by the word of god , and the good of the community , over which in the name of god he doth preside ; and whence he will take his warranty to forbid men the exercise of their consciences in the duties of spiritual worship , whilest the principles they profess , are suited to the light of nature , and the fundamental doctrines of the gospel , with the peace of mankind , and their practices absolutely confistent with publick welfare , i am yet to seek ; and so , as far as i can yet perceive , is the author of the discourse under consideration . it will not arise from a parity of reason from the power that he hath to restrain cursed swearing , and blasphemies by penal coercions . for these things are no less against the light of nature , and no less condemned by the common suffrage of mankind ( and the persons that contract the guilt of them may be no less effectually brought to judge and condemn themselves ) than are the greatest outrages that may be committed in and against humane society ; that the gospel will give no countenance hereunto , he seems to acknowledge , in his assignation of several reasons why the use of the power , and exercise of it in the way of compulsion by penalties , pleaded for by him , is not mentioned therein ; that christ and his apostles behaved themselves as subjects ; that he neither took nor exercised any soveraign power ; that he gave his laws to private men as such , and not to the magistrate , that the power that then was , was in bad hands , are pleaded as excuses for the silence of the gospel in this matter . but lest this should prove father prejudicial to his present occasion , he adds p. . the only reason why the lord christ bound not the precepts of the gospel upon mens consciences by any secular compulsories , was not because compulsion was an improper way to put his laws in execution ; for then he had never established them with more enforcing sanctions , but only because himself was not vested with any secular power , and so could not use those methods of government which are proper to its jurisdiction ; this in plain english is , that if christ had had power , he would have ordered the gospel to have been propagated as mahomet hath done his alcoran ; an assertion untrue and impious , contrary to the whole spirit and genius of the gospel , and of the author of it , aud the commands and precepts of it . and it is fondly supposed that the lord christ suited all the management of the affairs of the gospel , unto that state and condition in this world , wherein he emptied himself , and took upon him the form of a servant , making himself of no reputation , that he might be obedient unto death , the death of the cross ; he layes the foundation of the promulgation and propagation of it in the world , in the grant of all power unto him in heaven and earth . all power , saith he to his apostles , is given unto me in heaven and earth , go ye therefore , and baptize all nations , teaching them to observe all things whatever i have commanded you , matth. . , . he is confidered in the dispensation of the gospel , as he who is head over all things to the church , the lord of lords , and king of kings , whom our author acknowledgeth to be his vicegerents ; on this account the gospel with all the worship instituted therein , and required thereby , is accompanied with a right to enter into any of the kingdoms of the earth , and spiritually to make the inhabitants of them subject to jesus christ ; and so to translate them out of the power of darkness into the kingdom of the son of god ; and this right is antecedent and paramount to the right of all earthly kings and princes whatever , who have no power or authority to exclude the gospel out of their dominions ; and what they exercise of that kind , is done at their peril . the penalties that he hath annexed to the final rejection of the gospel , and disobedience thereunto , are pleaded by our author , to justifie the magistrates power of binding men to the observation of his commands in religion on temporal penalties to be by him inflicted on them ; unto that is the discourse of this chapter arrived which was designed unto another end . i see neither the order , method , nor projection of this procedure ; nor know , amphora cum cepit institui , cur vrceus exit ; however the pretense it self is weak , and impertinent . man was originally made under a law and constitution of eternal bliss , or woe ; this state , with regard to his necessary dependance on god , and respect to his utmost end , was absolutely unavoidable unto him . all possibility of attaining eternal happiness by himself he lost by sirr , and became inevitably obnoxious to eternal misery , and the wrath to come . in this condition the lord jesus christ , the supream lord of the souls and consciences of men , interposeth his law of relief , redemption , and salvation , the great means of man's recovery , together with the profession of the way , and law hereof . he lets them know , that those by whom it is refused , shall perish under that wrath of god , which before they were obnoxious unto , with a new aggravation of their sin and condemnation , from the contempt of the relief provided for them , and tendered to them . this he applyes to the souls and consciences of men , and to all the inward secret actings of them , in the first place , such as are exempted not only from the judicature of men , but from the cognizance of angels . this he doth by spiritual means in a spiritual manner , with regard to the subjection of the souls of men unto god , and with reference unto their bringing to him , and enjoyment of him , or their being eternally rejected by him. hence to collect , and conclude that earthly princes , who , ( whatever is pretended ) are not the soveraign lords of the souls and consciences of men , nor do any of them , that i know of , plead themselves so to be ; who cannot interpose any thing by their absolute authority , that should have a necessary respect unto mens eternal condition ; who have no knowledge of , no acquaintance with , nor can judge of the principal things whereon it doth depend , from whose temporal jurisdiction , and punishment the things of the gospel , and the worship of god as purely such , are ( by the nature of them , being spiritual and not of this world , though exercised in it , having their respect only unto eternity , and by their being taken into the sole disposal of the soveraign lord of consciences , who hath accompanied his commands concerning them with his own promises , and threatnings , ) plainly exempted ; should have power over the consciences of men , so to lay their commands upon them in these spiritual things , as to back them with temporal , corporal restraints and punishments , is a way of arguing that will not be confined unto any of those rules of reasoning , which hitherto we have been instructed in . when the magistrate hath an arm like god , and can thunder with a voice like him , when he judgeth not after the sight of his eyes , nor reproveth after the hearing of his ears , when he can smile the earth with the rod of his mouth , and slay the wicked with the breath of his lipps , when he is constituted a judge of the faith , repentance , and obedience of men , and of their efficacy in their tendency unto the pleasing of god here , and the enjoyment of him hereafter , when spiritual things in order to their eternal issues and effects are made subject unto him ; in brief , when he is christ , let him act as christ , or rather most unlike him , and guide the consciences of men by rods , axes , and halters ( whereunto alone his power can reach ) who in the mean time have an express command from the lord christ himself , not to have their consciences influenced in the least by the consideration of these things . of the like complexion is the ensuing discourse , wherein our author , p. . having spoken contemptuously of the spiritual institutions of the gospel , as altogether insufficient for the accomplishment of the ends , whereunto they are designed , forgeting that they respect only the consciences of men , and are his institutions who is the lord of their consciences , and who will give them power , and efficacy to attain their ends , when administred in his name , and according to his mind , and that because they are his ; would prove the necessity of temporal coercions , and penalties in things spiritual , from the extraordinary effects of excommunication in the primitive times , in the vexation and punishment of persons excommunicate by the devil . this work the devil now ceasing to attend unto , he would have the magistrate to take upon him to supply his place , and office , by punishments of his own appointment , and infliction ; and so at last , to be sure of giving him full measure , he hath ascribed two extreams unto him about religion , namely , to act the part of god , and the devil . but as this inference is built upon a very uncertain conjecture , namely , that upon the giving up of persons to satan in excommunication , there did any visible , or corporal vexation of them by his power ensue , or any other effects but what may yet be justly expected from an influence of his terrour on the minds of men , who are duly and regularly cast out of the visible kingdom of christ by that censure ; and whereas , if there be any truth in it , it was confined unto the dayes of the apostles , and is to be reckoned amongst the miraculous operations granted to them for the first confirmation of the gospel ; and the continuance of it , all the time the church wanted the assistance of the civil magistrate , is most unduly pretended without any colour of proof , or instance , beyond such as may be evidenced to continue at this day ; supposing it to be true , the inference made from it , as to its consequence on this concession , is exceeding weak , and feeble . for the argument here amounteth to no more but this ; god was pleased , in the dayes of the apostles , to confirm their spiritual censures against stuborn sinners , apostates , blasphemers , and such like hainous offenders , with extraordinary spiritual punishments , ( so in their own nature , or in the manner , or way of their infliction ) therefore the civil magistrate hath power to appoint things to be observed in the worship of god , and forbid other things , which the light and consciences of men , directed by the word of god , require the observation of , upon ordinary , standing , corporal penalties to be inflicted on the outward man ; quod erat demonstrandum . to wind up this debate ; i shall commit the vmpirage of it to the church of england , and receive her determination in the words of one who may be supposed to know her sense and judgement , as well as any one who lived in his dayes , or since . and this is doctor bilson bishop of winchester , a learned man , skilled in the laws of the land , and a great adversary unto all that dissented from church constitutions . this man therefore treating , by way of dialogue , in answer to the jesuites apologie and defence , in the third part p. . thus introduceth theophilus a protestant divine , arguing with philander a jesuite about these matters . theoph. as for the supream head of the church ; it is certain that title was first transferred from the pope to king henry the eighth , by the bishops of your side , not of ours . and though the pastors in king edwards time might not well dislike , much less disswade the style of the crown , by reason the king was under years , and so remained until he dyed ; yet as soon as it pleased god to place her majesty in her fathers throne , the nobles and preachers perceiving the words , head of the church , ( which is christs proper and peculiar honor ) to be offensive unto many that had vehemently refelled the same in the pope , besought her highness the meaning of that word which her father had used , might be expressed in some plainer and apter terms ; and so was the prince called supream governour of the realm ; that is ruler and bearer of the sword , with lawful authority to command and punish , answerable to the word of god , in all spiritual or ecclesiastical things or causes , as well as in temporal . and no forreign prince or prelate , to have any jurisdiction , superiority , preheminence or authority to establish , prohibit , correct , and chastise with publick laws , or temporal fains , any crimes or causes ecclesiastical or spiritual within her realm . philand . calvin saith this is sacriledge and blasphemy . look you therefore with what consciences you take that oath , which your own master so mightily detesteth . theoph. nay look you with what faces you alledge calvin , who maketh that style to be sacrilegious and blassphemous , as well in the pope as in the prince ; reason therefore you receive or refuse his judgement in both . if it derogate from christ in the prince , so it doth in the pope . yet we grant the sense of the word supream , as calvin perceived it by stephen gardiners answer and behaviour , is very blasphemous and injurious to christ and his word , whether it be prince or pope that so shall use it . what this sense is , he declares in the words of calvin , which are as followeth in his translation of them . that jugler , which after was chancelor , i mean the bishop of winchester , when he was at rentzburge , neither would stand to reason the matter , nor greatly cared for any testimonies of the scripture , but said it was at the kings discretion to abrogate that which was in use , and appoint new . he said the king might forbid priests marriage , the king might bar the people from the cup in the lords supper ; the king might determine this or that in his kingdom : and why , forsooth the king had supream power . this sacriledge hath taken hold on us , whilst princes think they cannot reign , except they abolish all the authority of the church , and be themselves supream judges as well in doctrine as in all spiritual regiment . to which he subjoyns ; this was the sense which calvin affirmed to be sacrilegious and blasphemous ; for princes to profess themselves to be supream judges of doctrine and discipline ; and indeed it is the blasphemy which all godly hearts reject and abomine , in the bishop of rome . neither did king henry take any such thing on him for ought that we can learn ; but this was gardiners stratagem , to convey the reproach and shame of the six articles from himself and his fellows that were the authors of them , and to cast it on the kings supream power . had calvin been told , that supream was first received to declare the prince to be superiour to the prelates , ( which exempted themselves from the kings authority by their church liberties and immunities ) as well as to the lay men of this realm , and not to be subject to the pope , the word would never have offended him . thus far he ; and if these controversies be any farther disputed , it is probable the next defence of what is here pleaded , will be in the express words of the principal prelates of this realm since the reformation , until their authority be peremptorily rejected . upon my first design to take a brief survey of this discourse , i had not the least intention to undertake the examination of any particular assertions , or reasonings , that might fall under controversie ; but meerly to examine the general principles whereon it doth proceed . but passing through these things currente calamo , i find my self engaged beyond my thoughts and resolutions ; i shall therefore here put an end to the consideration of this chapter , although i see sundry things as yet remaining in it , that might immediately be discussed with case , and advantage , as shall be manifest , if we are called again to a review of them . i have neither desire , nor design serram reciprocare , or to engage in any controversial discourses with this author . and i presume himself will not take it amiss , that i do at present examine those principles , whose novelty justifies a disquisition into them ; and whose tendency , as applyed by him , is pernicious , and destructive to so many quiet and peaceable persons , who dissent from him . and yet i will not deny , but that i have that valuation and esteem for that sparkling of wit , eloquence , and sundry other abilities of mind , which appear in his writing , that if he would lay aside the manner of his treating those from whom he dissents , with revilings , contemptuous reproaches , personal reflections , sarcasms , and satyrical expressions , and would candidly , and perspicuously state any matter in difference ; i should think that what he hath to offer , may deserve the consideration of them who have leisure for such a purpose . if he be otherwise minded , and resolve to proceed in the way , and after the manner here engaged in , as i shall in the close of this discourse absolutely give him my salve aeternumque vale , so i hope he will never meet with any one who shall be willing to deal with him at his own weapons . a survey of the second chapter . the summary of this chapter must needs give the reader a great expectation , and the chapter it self no less of satisfaction , if what is in the one briefly proposed , be in the other as firmly established . for amongst other things a scheme of religion is promised , reducing all its branches either to moral vertues , or instruments of morality ; which being spoken of christian religion , is , as far as i know , an undertaking new and peculiar unto this author , in whose mannagement all that read him must needs weigh and consider , how dextrously he hath acquitted himself . for as all men grant that morality hath a great place in religion , so that all religion is nothing but morality , many are now to learn. the villany of those mens religion that are wont to distinguish between grace and vertue ( that is moral vertue ) is nextly traduced and inveighed against . i had rather i confess that he had affixed the term of villany to the men themselves whom he intended to reflect on than to their religion ; because as yet it seems to me that it will fall on christianity , and no other real or pretended religion that is , or ever was in the world . for if the prosessors of it , have in all ages according to its avowed principles , never before contradicted , made a distinction between moral vertues ( since these terms were known in the church ) and evangelical graces , if they do so at this day , what religion else can be here branded with this infamous and horrible reproach , i know not . a farther enquiry into the chapter it self may possibly give us farther satisfaction ; wherein we shall deal as impartially as we are able , with a diligent watchfulness against all prejudicate affections , that we may discover what there is of sense and truth in the discourse , being ready to receive what ever shall be manifested to have an interest in them . the civil magistrate , we are also here informed , amongst many other things that he may do , may command any thing in the worship of god that doth not tend to debauch mens practices , or to disgrace the deity . and that all subordinate duties both of morality and religious worship ( such as elsewhere we are told the sacraments are ) are equally subject to the determination of humane authority . these things and sundry others represented in this summary , being new , yea some of them , as far as i know , unheard of amongst christians untill within a few years last past , any reader may justifie himself in the expectation of full and demonstrative arguments to be produced in their proof and confirmation . what the issue will be , some discovery may be made by the ensuing enquiry , as was said , into the body of the chapter it self . the design of this chapter in general is , to confirm the power of the magistrate over religion , and the consciences of men ascribed unto him in the former , and to add unto it some enlargements not therein insisted on . the argument used to this purpose , is taken from the power of the magistrate over the consciences of men in matters of morality , or with respect unto moral vertue ; whence it is supposed the conclusion is so evident unto his power over their consciences in matters of religious worship , that it strikes our author with wonder and amazement that it should not be received an acknowledged . wherefore to further the conviction of all men in this matter , h● proceeds to discourse of moral vertue , o● grace , and of religious worship , with hi● wonted reflections upon , and reproache of non-conformists , for their ignorance about and villanous misrepresentation of these things , which seem more to be aimed at● than the argument it self . i must here with again that our author had more perspicuously stated the things which he proposeth to debate for the subject of his disputation . but i find an excess of art is as troublesome sometimes as the greatest defect therein . from thence i presume it is , that things are so handled in this discourse , that an ordinary man can seldom discern satisfactorily , what it is that directly and determinately he doth intend , beyond reviling of non-conformists . for in this proposition , which is the best and most intelligible that i can reduce the present discourse unto , the supream civil magistrate hath power over the consciences of men in morality , or with respect unto moral vertue ; excepting only the subject of it , there is not one term in it that may not have various significations ; and those such as have countenance given unto them in the ensuing disputation it self . but , contenti sumus hoc catone , and make the best we can of what lyes before us . i do suppose that in the medium made use of in this argument there is , or i am sure there may be , a controversie of much more importance than that principally under consideration . it therefore shall be stated and cleared in the first place , and then the concernment of the argument it self in what is discoursed thereupon , shall be manifested . it is about moral vertue and grace , their coincidence , or distinction , that we are in the first place to enquire . for without a due stating of the conception of these things , nothing of this argument , nor what belongs unto it , can be rightly understood . we shall therefore be necessitated to premise a brief explanation of these terms themselves , to remove as far as may be all ambiguity from our discourse . first then , the very name of vertue , in the sense wherein it is commonly used and received , comes from the schools of philosophy , and not from the scripture . in the old testament we have vprightness , integrity , righteousness , doing good and eschewing evil , fearing , trusting , obeying , believing in god , holiness and the like ; but the name of vertue doth not occur therein . it is true we have translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a vertuous woman ; and once or twice the same word vertuously , ruth . . . prov. . . chap● . , . but that word signifies as 〈◊〉 used , strenuous , industrious , diligent , and hath no such signification as that we now express by vertue . nor is it any where rendred 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the lxx . although it may have some respect unto it , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and peculiarly denote the exercise of industrious strength , such as men use in battail . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is vis , robur , potentia , or exercitus also . but in the common acceptation of it , and as it is used by philosophers , there is no word in the hebrew nor syriack properly to express it . the rabbins do it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies properly a measure . for studying the philosophy of aristotle , and translating his ethicks into hebrew , which was done by rabbi meir , and finding his vertue placed in mediocrity , they applyed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to express it . so they call aristotles ethicks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the book of measures , that is of vertues . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are boni mores . such a stranger is this very word unto the old testament . in the new testament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 occurs four times ; but it should not seem any where to be taken in the sense now generally admitted . in some of the places it rather denotes the excellency and praises that do attend vertue , than vertue it self . so we render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praises ; pet. . . as the syriack doth also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , praises ; and the same translation , phil. . . renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if there be any vertue , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , works glorious , or praise worthy . pet. . . it is a peculiar gracious disposition , operation of mind , distinguished from faith , temperance , patience , brotherly kindness , godliness , charity , &c. and so cannot have the common sense of the word there put upon it . the word moral is yet far more exotick to the church and scripture . we are beholding for it , if there be any advantage in its use , meerly to the schools of the philosophers , especially of aristotle . his doctrine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , commonly called his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or moralia , his morals , hath begotten this name for our use . the whole is expressed in isocrates to demonicus by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the vertue of manners . if then the signification of the words be respected as usually taken , it is vertue in mens manners that is intended . the schoolmen brought this expression with all its concerns , as they did the rest of aristotles philosophy , into the church and divinity . and i cannot but think it had been well if they had never done it ; as all will grant they might have omitted some other things without the least disadvantage to learning or religion . however this expression of moral vertue having absolutely possest it self of the fancies and discourses of all , and it may be of the understanding of some , though with very little satisfaction when all things are considered , i shall not endeavour to dispossess it , or eliminate it from the confines of christian theologie . only i am sure had we been left unto the scripture expressions , of repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ , of the fear of god , of holiness , righteousness , living unto god , walking with god , and before him , we might have been free from many vain wordy perplexities ; and the whole wrangle of this chapter in particular , had been utterly prevented . for let but the scripture express what it is to be religious , and there will be no contesting about the difference or no difference between grace and moral vertue . it is said , that some judge those who have moral vertue to want grace , not to be gracious . but say , that men are born of god , and do not commit sin , that they walk before god and are upright , that they cleave unto god with full purpose of heart , that they are sanctified in christ jesus and the like , and no man will say that they have not grace , or are not gracious , if they receive your testimony . but having , as was said , made its entrance amongst us , we must deal with it as well as we can , and satisfie our selves about its common acceptation and use. generally , moral vertues are esteemed to be the duties of the second table . for although those who handle these matters more accurately , do not so straiten or confine them , yet it is certain that in vulgar and common acceptation , ( which strikes no small stroke , in the regulating of the conceptions of the wisest men , about the signification of words ) nothing else is intended by moral vertues or duties of morality , but the observation of the precepts of the second table . nor is any thing else designed by those divines , who in their writings so frequently declare , that it is not morality alone that will render men acceptable to god. others do extend these things further , and fix the denomination of moral , firstly upon the law or rule of all those habits of the mind , and its operations , which afterwards thence they call moral . now this moral law is nothing but the law of nature , or the law of our creation ; which the apostle affirms to lye equally obligatory on all men , even all the gentiles themselves , rom. . , . and whereof the decalogue is summarily expressive . this moral law is therefore the law written in the hearts of all men by nature , which is resolved partly into the nature of god himself , which cannot but require most of the things of it from rational creatures ; partly into that state and condition of the nature of things and their mutual relations , wherein god was pleased to create and set them . these things might be easily instanced and exemplified , but that we must not too much divert from our present occasion . and herein lyes the largest sense and acceptation of the law moral , and consequently of moral vertues , which have their form and being from their relation and conformity thereunto . let it be then , that moral vertues consist in the universal observance of the requisites and precepts of the law of our creation and dependance on god thereby . and this description , as we shall see for the substance of it , is allowed by our author . now these vertues , or this conformity of our minds and actions unto the law of our creation , may be in the light and reason of christian religion , considered two wayes . first , as with respect unto the substance or essence of the duties themselves , they may be performed by men in their own strength , under the conduct of their own reason , without any special assistance from the spirit , or sanctifying grace of christ. in this sense , they still bare the name of vertues , and for the substance of them deserve so to do . good they are in themselves , useful to mankind , and seldome in the providence of god go without their reward in this world. i grant i say , that they may be obtained and acted without special assistance of grace evangelical ; though the wiser heathens acknowledged something divine in the communication of them to men. papinius speaks to that purpose , diva jovis solio juxta comes ; undeper orbem rara dari , terrísque solet contingere virtus . seu pater omnipotens tribuit , sive ipsa capaces elegit penetrare viros . — but old homer put it absolutely in the will of his god. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thus we grant moral vertue to have been in the heathen of old . for this is that alone whereby they were distinguished amongst themselves . and he that would exclude them all from any interest in moral vertue , takes away all difference between cato and nero , aristides and tiberius , titus and domitian ; and overthrows all natural difference between good and evil ; which besides other abominations that it would plentifully spawn in the world , would inevitably destroy all humane society . but now these moral vertues thus performed , whatever our author thinks , are distinct from grace , may be without it , and in their present description , which is not imaginary but real , are supposed so to be . and if he pleases he may exercise himself in the longsome disputes of bellarmin , gregory de valentia , and others to this purpose innumerable ; not to mention reformed divines lest they should be scornfully rejected as systematical . and this is enough i am sure to free their religion from villany , who make a distinction between moral vertue and grace . and if our author is otherwise minded , and both believe that there is grace evangelical , ●●●●ever there is moral vertue , or , that moral vertues may be so obtained and exercised without the special assistance of grace , as to become a part of our religion , and accepted with god , and will maintain his opinion in writing , i will promise him if i live to return him an answer , on one only condition , which is , that he will first answer what augustine hath written against the pelagians on this subject . again these moral vertues , this observance of the precepts of the law of our creation , in a consonancy whereunto originally the image of god in us did consist , may now under the gospel be considered , as men are principled , assisted , and enabled to and in their performance by the grace of god , and as they are directed unto the especial end of living unto him in and by jesus christ. what is particularly required hereunto , shall be afterwards declared . now in this sense no man living ever distinguished between grace and vertue , any otherwise than the cause and the effect are to be , or may be distinguished ; much less was any person ever so bruitish as to fancy an inconsistency between them , for take grace in one sense , and it is the efficient cause of this vertue , or of these vertues which are the effects of it ; and in another they are all graces themselves . for that which is wrought in us by grace is grace ; as that which is born of the spirit is spirit . to this purpose something may be spoken concerning grace also , the other term , whose ambiguity renders the discourse under consideration somewhat intricate and perplexed . now as the former term of moral vertue owed its original to the schools of philosophy , and its use was borrowed from them ; so this of grace is purely scriptural and evangelical . the world knows nothing of it but what is declared in the word of god , especially in the gospel , for the law was given by moses , but grace and truth came by jesus christ. all the books of the ancient philosophers , will not give us the least light into that notion of grace , which the scripture declares unto us . as then we allowed the sense of the former term given unto it by its first coyners and users , so we cannot but think it equal , that men be precisely tyed up in their conceptions about grace , unto what is delivered in the scripture concerning it ; as having no other rule either to frame them , or judge of them . and this we shall attend unto . not that i here design to treat of the nature of gospel grace in general ; but whereas all the divines that ever i have read on these things , whether ancient or modern ( and i have not troubled my self to consider whether they were systematical ones only or otherwise qualified ) allow some distinctions of this term to be necessary , for the right understanding of those passages of scripture wherein it is made use of . i shall mention that or those only , which are so unto the right apprehension of what is at present under debate . first therefore , grace in the scripture is taken for the free grace , or favour of god towards sinners by jesus christ. by this he freely pardoneth them their , sins , justifieth , and accepteth them , or makes them accepted in the beloved . this certainly is distinct from moral vertue . secondly , it is taken for the effectual working of the spirit of god , in and upon the minds and souls of believers , thereby quickning them when they were dead in trespasses and sins , regenerating of them , creating a new heart in them , implanting his image upon them : neither i presume will this be called moral vertue . thirdly , for the actual supplies of assistance and ability given to believers , so to enable them unto every duty in particular , which in the gospel is required of them ; for he works in them both to will and to do of his own good pleasure . as yet the former distinction will appear necessary . fourthly , for the effects wrought and produced by this operation of god and his grace , in the hearts and minds of them that believe ; which are either habitual in the spiritual disposition of their minds , or actual in their operations ; all which are called grace . it may be our author will be apt to think that i cant , use phrases , or fulsome metaphors . but besides that i can confirm these distinctions , and the necessity of them , and the words wherein they are expressed , from the scriptures and ancient fathers , i can give them him for the substance of them out of very learned divines , whether systematical or no i know not , but this i know they were not long since bishops of the church of england . we are now in the next place to inquire into the mind of our author in these things ; for from his apprehensions about them he frames a mighty difference between himself and those whom he opposeth , and from thence takes occasion and advantage afresh to revile and reproach them . first , therefore he declares his judgement , that the moral vertues which he treats of do consist in mens observance of the law of nature , of the dictates of reason , and precepts thereof . secondly , that the substance , yea the whole of religion consists in these vertues , or duties ; so that by the observation of them men may attain everlasting happiness . thirdly , that there is no actual concurrence of present grace , enabling men to perform these duties , or to exercise these vertues , but they are called grace on another account . fourthly , that his adversaries are so far from making vertue and grace to be the same that they make them inconsistent . and these things shall we take into a brief examination according as indeed they do deserve . the first of them , he plainly and more than once affirms ; nor shall i contend with him about it . so he speaks pag. . the practice of vertue consists in living suitably to the dictates of reason and nature , and this is the substance and main design of all the laws of religion , to oblige mankind to behave themselves in all their actions as becomes creatures endowed with reason and understanding , and in wayes suitable to rational beings , to prepare and qualifie themselves for the state of glory and immortality . this is a plain description both of the rule of moral vertues , and of the nature of them . the law of reason and nature is the rule ; and their own nature ( as acting , or acted ) consists in a suitableness unto rational beings ; acting , to prepare themselves for the state of immortality and glory . the first end of all vertue no doubt . we need not therefore make any farther inquiry into this matter , wherein we are agreed . secondly , that the substance , yea the whole of religion consists in these moral vertues he fully also declares , pag. . moral vertue having the strongest and most necessary influence upon the , end of all religion viz. mans happiness , it is not only its most material and useful part , but the ultimate end of all its other duties ; ( though i know not , how the practice of vertue in this life can be the vltimate end of other duties ) and all true religion can consist in nothing else but either the practice of vertue it self , or the use of those means and instruments that contribute unto it . so also p. . all duties of devotion excepting only our returns of gratitude are not essential parts of religion , but are only in order to it , as they tend to the practice of vertue and moral goodness ; and their goodness is derived upon them from the moral vertues to which they contribute ; and in the same proportion they are conducive to the ends of vertue , they are to be valued among the ministeries of religion . so then the whole duty of man consists in being vertuous , and all that is injoyned him beside , is in order thereunto . hence we are told elsewhere , that outward worship is no part of religion ; again pag. . all religion must of necessity be resolved into enthusiasm or morality ; the former is meer imposture , and therefore all that is true must be reduced to the latter . but we need not insist on particulars , seeing he promoteth this to confirmation by the best of demonstrations , i. e. an induction of all particulars ; which he calls a scheme of religion ; wherein yet if any thing necessary be left out or omitted , this best of demonstrations is quickly turned into one of the worst of sophismes . therefore we have here ( no doubt ) a just and full representation of all that belongs to christian religion ; and it is as follows ; pag. . the whole duty of man referrs either to his creator , or his neighbour , or himself . all that concerns the two last , is confessedly of a moral nature ; and all that concerns the first , consists either in praising of god or praying to him ; the former is a branch of the vertue of gratitude , and is nothing but a thankful and humble temper of mind , arising from a sense of gods greatness in himself , and his goodness to us . so that this part of devotion issues from the same vertuous quality , that is the principle of all other resentments and expressions of gratitude ; only those acts of it that are terminated on god as their object are stiled religious ; and therefore gratitude and devotion are not divers things , but only differing names of the same thing ; devotion being nothing else but the vertue of gratitude towards god. the latter , viz. prayer is either put up in our own or other mens behalf ; if for others it is an act of that vertue we call kindness or charity ; if for our selves , the things we pray for , unless they be the comforts and enjoyments of this life , are some or other vertuous qualities ; and therefore the proper and direct use of prayer is to be instrumental to the vertues of morality . it is of christian religion that this author treats , as is manifest from his ensuing discourse , and the reason he gives why moral vertues are stiled graces . now i must needs say that i look on this of our author as the rudest , most imperfect , and weakest scheme of christian religion that ever yet i saw ; so far from comprising an induction of all particulars belonging to it , that there is nothing in it that is constitutive of christian religion as such at all . i wish he had given us a summary of the credenda of it , as he hath done of its agenda , that we might have had a prospect of the body of his divinity . the ten commandments would in my mind have done twice as well on this present occasion , with the addition of the explication of them given us in the church cateehism . but i am afraid that very catechism may ere long be esteemed phanatical also . one i confess i have read of before , who was of this opinion , that all religion consisted in morality alone . but withall he was so ingenious as to follow the conduct of his judgement in this matter , unto a full renunciation of the gospel , which is certainly inconsistent with it . this was one martin sidelius a seilesian , who gave the ensuing account of his faith unto faustus socinus and his society at cracovia . caeterum ut sciatis cujus sim religionis , quamvis id scripto meo quod habetis , ostenderim , tamen hic breviter repetam . et primum quidem doctrina de messia , seu rege illo promisso , ad meam religionem nihil pertinet : nam rex elle tantum judaeis promissus erat , sicut & bona illa canaan . sic etiam circumcisio sacrificia , & reliquae cerimoniae mosis ad me non pertinent , sed tantum populo judaico promissa data & mandata sunt . neque ista fuerunt cultus dei apud judaeos , sed inserviebant cultui divino , & ad cultum deducebant judaeos . verus autem cultus dei quem meam religionem appello , est decalogus : qui est aeterna dei voluntas , qui decalogus ideo ad me pertinet , quia etiam mihi à deo datus est , non quidem per vocems sonantem de coelo , sicut populo judaico , at per creationem insita est menti meae ; quia autem insitus decalogus , per corruptionem naturae humanae , & pravis consuetudinibus , aliqua ex parte obscuratus est , ideo ad illustrandum cum , adhibeo vocalem decalogum , qui vocalis decalogus , ideo etiam ad me , ad omnes populos pertinet , quia cum insito nobis decalogo consentit , imo idem ille decalogus est . haec est mea sententia de messia seu rege illo promisso , & haec est mea religio , quam coram vobis ingenue profiteor . martin seidelius olavensis silesius . that is . but that you may know of what religion i am , although it is expressed in that writing which you have already , yet i will here briefly repeat it . and first of all , the doctrine of the messiah , or king that was promised doth not belong to my religion ; for that king was promised to the jews only ; as was the good land of c●n●an . so in like manner circumcision , sacrifices and the rest of the ceremonies of moses belong not to me , but were promised , given , and granted unto the people of the jews alone . neither were they the worship of god among the jews , but were only subservient unto divine worship , and lead the jews unto it ( the same opinion is maintained by our author concerning all exterior worship : ) but the true worship which i call my religion , is the decalogue which is the eternal and immutable will of god ; ( and here also he hath the consent and concurrence of our author ) which decalogue doth therefore belong unto me because it is given by god to me also ; not indeed by a voice sounding from heaven as he gave it to the people of the jews , but it is implanted in my mind by nature . but because this implanted decalogue by reason of the corruption of humane nature , and through depraved customs , is in some measure obscured , for the illustration of it i make use of the vocal decalogue , which therefore also belongs unto me and all people ; because it consenteth with the decalogue written in our hearts ; yea is the same law with it . this is my opinion concerning the messiah , or the promised king ; and this is my religion which i freely acknowledge before ye . so he , this is plain dealing . he saw clearly , that if all religion and the worship of god consisted in morality only , there was neither need nor use of christ , nor the gospel . and accordingly having no outward advantage by them , discarded them . but setting aside his bold renunciation of christ as promised , i see not any material difference between the religion of this man and that now contended for . the poor deluded souls among our selves , who leaving the scripture , pretend that they are guided by the light within them , are upon the matter of the same religion . for that light being nothing but the dictates of reason and a natural conscience , it extends not it self beyond morality ; which some of them understanding , we know what thoughts and apprehensions they have had of christ and of his gospel and the worship of god instituted therein . for hence it is , ( and not as our author pretends , with a strange incogitancy concerning them and the gnosticks , that they assert the scripture to be the only rule of religious worship ) that they are fallen into these fond imaginations . and these are the effects which this principle doth naturally lead unto . i confess then that i do not agree with our author in and about this scheme of christian religion ; which i shall therefore first briefly put in my exceptions unto , and then offer him another in lieu of it . first , then this scheme seems to represent religion unto us as suited to the state of innocency , and that very imperfectly also . for it is composed to answer the former assertions of confining religion to moral vertues , which are granted to consist in our conformity unto and expression of the dictates of reason and the law of nature . again the whole duty of man is said to refer either to his creator , or his neighbour , or himself . had it been said to god absolutely , another interpretation might have been put upon the words . but being restrained unto him as our creator , all duties referring to our redeemer are excluded , or not included , which certainly have some place in christian religion . our obedience therein is the obedience of faith , and must answer the special objects of it . and we are taught in the church catechism to believe in god the father who made us and all the world , and in god the son who redeemed us and all mankind ; and in god the holy ghost , who sanctifies us and all the elect people of god. now these distinct acts of faith , have distinct acts of obedience attending them ; whereas none here are admitted , or at least required , but those which fall under the first head . it is also very imperfect as a description of natural religion , or the duties of the law of nature . for the principal duties of it , such as fear , love , trust , affiance of and in god , are wholly omitted ; nor will they be reduced unto either of the heads which all religion is here distributed unto . for gratitude unto god hath respect formally and directly to the benefits we our selves are made partakers of . but these duties are eternally necessary on the consideration of the nature of god himself , antecedent unto the consideration of his communicating of himself unto us by his benefits . prayer proceeds from them ; and it is an odd method to reduce the cause under the head of its effect . and prayer it self is made at length not to be so much a moral vertue , as somewhat instrumental to the vertues of morality . secondly , i cannot think we have here a compleat representation of christian religion , nor an induction of all its particulars , because we have neither supposition nor assertion of sin , or a redeemer , or of any duty with respect unto them . gratitude and prayer i confess are two heads , whereunto sundry duties of natural religion without respect unto these things may be reduced . but since the fall of adam , there was never any religion in the world accepted with god , that was not built and founded on the supposition of them , and whose principal duties towards god did not respect them . to prescribe now unto us a religion as it respects god , without those duties which arise from the consideration of sin , and a redeemer , is to perswade us to throw away our bibles . sin , and the condition of all men on the account thereof , their duty in that condition , what god requires of them with reference thereunto , the way that god hath found out , proposed , and requires of us to make use of , that we may be delivered from that condition , with the duties necessary to that end , do even constitute and make up that religion which the scripture teacheth us , and which , as it summarily expresseth it self , consists in repentance towards god , and faith in our lord jesus christ ; neither of which , nor scarce any thing that belongs unto them , appears in this scheme ; so that thirdly , the most important duties of christian religion are here not only omitted , but excluded . where shall we find any place here to introduce repentance ; and as belonging thereunto conviction of sin , humiliation , godly sorrow , conversion it self to god ? for my part i will never be of that religion where these duties towards god have no place . faith in our lord jesus christ , with all that is necessary to it , preparatory for it , included in it , and consequentiall on it , are in like manner cast out of the verge of religious duties here schematized . an endeavour to fly from the wrath to come , to receive jesus christ , to accept of the attonement , to seek after the forgiveness of sins by him ( that we may cant a little ) and to give up our souls in universal obedience to all his commands , belong also to the duties of that religion towards god which the scripture prescribeth unto us ; but here they appear not in the least intimation of them . no more do the duties which though generally included in the law of loving god above all , yet are prescribed and determined in the gospel alone . such are self-denyal , readiness to take up the cross , and the like . besides all the duties wherein our christian conflict against our spiritual adversaries doth consist , and in especial the whole of our duty towards god in the mortification of sin , can be of no consideration there , where no supposition of sin is made or allowed . but there would be no end if all exceptions of this nature , that readily offer themselves , might here have admittance . if this be the religion of our adversaries in these things , if this be a perfect scheme of its duties towards god , and induction of all its particulars ; let our author insult over , and reproach them whilst he pleaseth , who blame it as insufficient without grace and godliness : i would not be in the condition of them who trust their eternal concernments to meer observance of it ; as knowing that there is no name under heaven given unto men whereby they may be saved , but only the name of jesus christ. it will be in vain pretended , that it is not a description of christian religion , but of religion , as religion in general , that is here attempted . for besides that , it is christian religion , and that as used and practised by christians , which is alone under consideration ; and an introduction of religion here under any other notion would be grievously inconsistent and incoherent with the whole discourse . it is acknowledged by our author in the progress of his disputation as was before observed , when he gives a reason why moral vertue is stiled grace , which is peculiar and appropriate to christian religion alone . besides , to talk now of a religion in the world , which either hath been , or may be , since the fall of adam without respect unto sin , is to build castles in the air . all the religion that god now requires , prescribes , accepts , that is or can be , is the religion of sinners , or of those who are such , and of them as such , though also under other qualifications . on many accounts therefore this scheme of religion or religious duties towards god , is exceedingly insufficient and imperfect . to lay it therefore as a foundation whereon to stand , and revile them who plead for a superaddition unto it of grace and godliness , is an undertaking from whence no great success is to be expected . i can easily supply another scheme of religion in the room of this , which though it have not any such contexture of method , nor is set out with such gaudy words as those which our author hath at his disposal , yet i am confident in the confession of all christians shall give a better account than what is here offered unto us both of the religion we profess , and of the duties that god requires therein ; and this taken out of one epistle of st. paul ; namely , that to the romans . and i shall do it as things come to mind in the haste wherein i am writing . he then gives us his scheme to this purpose . as first , that all men sinned in adam , came short of the glory of god , and rendred themselves liable to death and the whole curse of the law. then , that they do all , as left to themselves accumulate their original sin and transgression , with a world of actual sins , and provocations of god. that against men in this condition , god testifies his wrath and displeasure , both in his works and by his word . hence it necessarily follows , that the first duty of man towards god is to be sensible of this condition , of the guilt of sin , with a fear of the wrath and judgement due to them . then he informs us , that neither the jews by the law , nor the gentiles by the light of nature , could disentangle themselves from this state , or do that which is pleasing unto god , so as they might obtain forgiveness of sin and acceptation with him . this bespeaks unto all the great duty towards god , of their acknowledgement unto him , of their miserable and helpless condition , with all those affections and subordinate duties , wherewith it is attended . in this state he declares , that god himself in his infinite wisdome , goodness and grace , provided a remedy , a way of relief ; on which he hath put such an impression of his glorious excellencies as may stirr up the hearts of his creatures , to endeavour a return unto him from their apostasie ; and that this remedy consists in his setting forth jesus christ to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the forgiveness of sin ; which he proposeth unto men for their receiving and acceptance . this renders it the greatest duty of mankind towards god , to believe in the son of god so set forth , to seek after an interest in him , or being made partaker of him ; for this is the great work that god requires , namely that we believe on him whom he hath sent . again , he declares that god justifieth them who so believe , pardoning their sins , and imputing righteousness unto them ; whereon innumerable duties do depend , even all the obedience that christ requires of us ; seeing in our believing in him , we accept him to be our king to rule , govern and conduct our souls to god. and all these are religious duties towards god. he declares moreover , that whereas men are by nature dead in trespasses and sins , and stand in need of a new spiritual life , to be born again , that they may live unto god ; that god in jesus christ doth by his spirit quicken them , and regenerate them , and work in them a new principle of spiritual life ; whence it is their great duty towards god ( in this religion of st. paul ) to comply with , and to yield obedience , unto all the wayes and methods that god is pleased to use in the accomplishment of this work upon them , the especial duties whereof are too many to be instanced in . but he further manifests , that notwithstanding the regeneration of men by the spirit , and their conversion to god , there yet continues in them a remainder of the principle of corrupted nature , which he calls the flesh , and indwelling sin , that is of it self wholly enmity against god , and as far it abides in any , inclines the heart and mind unto sin , which is to be watched against and opposed . and on this head , he introduceth the great religious duty towards god of our spiritual conflict against sin , and of the mortification of it , wherein those that believe are to be exercised all the dayes of their lives , and wherein their principal duty towards god doth consist , and without which they can perform no other in a due manner . moreover he farther adds the great gospel-priviledge of the communication of the spirit of christ unto believers , for their sanctification , consolation , and edification ; with the duties of thankfulness towards god , joy and rejoycing in him , cheerfulness under tryals , afflictions , and persecutions , and sundry others that on that account are required of us , all religious duties towards god , in the religion by him proposed unto us . having laid these foundations , and manifested how they all proceed from the eternal counsel and free grace of god , in which it is our duty to admire , adore , and praise him , he declareth how hereby and on the account of these things , we are bound unto all holiness , righteousness , godliness , honesty , and usefulness in this world , in all relations and conditions whatsoever ; declaring our duties in churches , according to our especial interest in them , towards believers ; and towards all men in the world in our several relations ; in obedience to magistrates ; and all superiors ; in a word in universal observance of the whole will and all the commands of god. now whither any one will call this a scheme or no , or allow it to have any thing of method in it or no , i neither know nor care ; but am perswaded that it makes a better , more plain , and intelligible representation of the religious duties towards god which christian religion , requires of us , unto all that suppose this whole religion to depend on divine revelation , than that of our author . but i find my self in a digression ; the end of this discourse was only to manifest the sentiments of our author , on the second head before laid down , which i think are sufficiently evinced . the third is , that there is no actual work of present grace , either to sit the persons , of whom these duties of moral vertues are required , unto the performance of them , or to work and effect them in them . for although they are called graces , and the graces of the spirit , in the scripture , yet that is upon another account ; as he declares himself , pag. . all that the scripture intends by the graces of the spirit , are only vertuous qualities of the soul that are therefore stiled graces , because they are derived purely from god's free-grace and goodness , in that in the first ages of christianity , he was pleased out of his infinite concern for its propagation , in a miraculous manner to inspire its converts with all sorts of vertue . vertuous qualities of the soul , is a very ambigious expression . take these vertuous qualities , for a new principle of spiritual life , consisting in the habitual disposition , inclination , and ability of mind unto the things required of us in the will of god , or unto the acts of religious obedience , and it may express the graces of the spirit ; which yet are far enough from being so called upon the account here mentioned . but these vertuous qualities , are to be interpreted according to the tenour of the preceding discourses , that have already passed under examination . let now our author produce any one writer of the church of god , from first to last , of any repute or acceptation , from the day that the name of christian was known in the world , unto this wherein we live , giving us this account why the fruits of the spirit , the vertuous or gracious qualities of the minds of believers , are called graces that here he gives , and i will give him my thanks publickly for his discovery . for if this be the only reason why any thing in believers is called grace , why vertues are graces , namely because god was pleased in the first ages of christianity miraculously to inspire its converts with all sorts of vertue , then there is ●o communication of grace unto any , no work of grace in and upon any , in an ordinary way , through the ministry of the gospel , in these latter ages . the whole being , and efficacy of grace , according to this notion , is to be confined unto the miraculous operations of god in gospel concernments , in the first ages , whence a denomination in the scripture is cast upon our vertues , when obtained and exercised by and in our own strength . now this plainly overthrows the whole gospel , and contains a pelagianisme that pelagius himself never did , nor durst avow . are these things then so indeed ? that god did from his free grace and goodness , miraculously inspire the first converts of christianity with all sorts of vertues , but that he doth not still continue to put forth in any , actually , the efficacy of his grace , to make them gracious , holy , believing , obedient to himself , and to work in them all suitable actings towards himself and others ? then farewell scripture , the covenant of grace , the intercession of christ , yea all the ancient fathers , counsels , schoolmen , and most of the jesuites themselves . many have been the disputes amongst christians about the nature of grace , the rule of its dispensation , the manner and way of its operation , its efficacy , concurrence , and co-operation in the wills of men ; but that there is no dispensation of it , no operation but what was miraculous in the first converts of the gospel , was i think untill now undiscovered . nor can it be here pretended , that although the vertuous qualities of our minds and their exercise , by which is intended all the obedience that god requireth of us , in principle and practice , that we may please him , and come to the enjoyment of him , are not said to be called graces , only , on the account mentioned ; for as in respect of us , they are not so termed at all , so if the term only be not understood , the whole discourse is impertinent and ridiculous . for those other reasons and accounts that may be taken in , will render that given utterly useless unto our authors intention , and indeed are altogether inconsistent with it . and he hath given us no reason to suppose , that he talks after such a weak and preposterous a rate . this then is that which is here asserted , the qualities of our minds and their exercise wherein the vertues pleaded about , and affirmed to contain the whole substance of religion , do consist , are not wrought in us by the grace or spirit of god through the preaching of the gospel , but are only called graces , as before . now though here be a plain contradiction to what is delivered but two pages before , namely , that we pray for some or other vertuous qualities , that is doubtless to be wrought in us by the grace of god ; yet this present discourse is capable of no other interpretation but that given unto it . and indeed it seems to be the design of some men , to confine all real gifts and graces of the spirit of god , to the first ages of the gospel , and the miraculous operations in it ; which is to overthrow the whole gospel , the church , and the ministry of it , as to their use and efficacy , leaving men only the book of the bible to philosophize upon , as shall be elsewhere demonstrated , our author indeed tells us , that on the occasion of some mens writings in theology , there hath been a buzz and a noise of the spirit of god in the world. his expressions are exceedingly suited to pour contempt on what he doth not approve ; not so to express what he doth himself intend . but i desire that he and others would speak plain , and openly in this matter , that neither others may be deceived nor themselves have occasion to complain that they are mis-represented ; a pretence whereof would probably give them a dispensation to deal very roughly , if not despightfully with them with whom they shall have to do . doth he therefore think or believe , that there are not now any real gracious operations of the spirit of god , upon the hearts and minds of men in the world ? that the dispensation of the spirit is ceased , as well unto ordinary ministerial gifts , with its sanctifying , renewing , assisting grace , as unto gifts miraculous and extraordinary ? that there is no work at all of god upon the hearts of sinners , but that which is purely moral , and perswasive by the word ? that what is asserted by some concerning the efficacy of the grace of the spirit , and concerning his gifts , is no more but a buzz and a noise ? i wish he would explain himself directly and positively in these things ; for they are of great importance . and the loose expressions which we meet with , do give great offence unto some , who are apt to think , that as pernicious an heresie as ever infested the church of god , may be covered and clocked by them . but to return ; in the sense that moral vertue is here taken , i dare boldly pronounce , that there is no villany in the religion of those men , who distinguish between vertue and grace ; that is , there not in their so doing ; this being the known and avowed religion of christianity . it is granted ; that whereever grace is , there is vertue . for grace will produce and effect all vertues in the soul whatever . but vertue on the other side may be where there is no grace , which is sufficient to confirm a distinction between them . it was so in fundry of the heathen of old ; though now it be pretended that grace is nothing but an occasional denomination of vertue , not that it is the cause or principle of it . but the proofs produced by our author are exceedingly incompetent unto the end whereunto they are applyed . for that place of the apostle , gal. . v. , . the fruit of the spirit is love , joy , peace , long-suffering , gentleness , goodness , faith , meekness , temperance ; though our author should be allowed to turn joy into cheerfulness , peace into peaceableness , faith into faithfulness , as he hath done , corruptly enough , to accommodate it to his purpose , yet it will no way reach his end , nor satisfie his intention . for doth it follow that because the spirit effects all these moral vertues in a new and gracious manner , and with a direction to a new and special end in believers , either that these things are nothing but meer moral vertues , not wrought in us by the grace of god , ( the contrary whereof is plainly asserted in calling them fruits of the spirit ) or that where-ever there is moral vertue , though not so wrought by the spirit , that there is grace also , because vertue and grace are the same ? if these are the expositions of scripture which we may expect from them , who make such out-cries against other mens , perverting and corrupting of it , the matter is not like to be much mended with us , for ought i can see , upon their taking of that work into their own hands . and indeed his quotation of this place is pretty odd . he doth not in the print express the words as he useth , and as he doth those of another scripture immediately , in a different character , as the direct words of the apostle , that no man may charge him with a false allegation of the text. yet he repeats all the words of it which he intends to use to his purpose , somewhat altering the expressions . but he hath had , i fear , some unhappiness in his explanations . by joy he would have cheerfulness intended . but what is meant by cheerfulness is much more uncertain than what is intended by joy. mirth it may be in conversation is aimed at , or somewhat of that nature . but how remote this is from that spiritual joy , which is recommended unto us in the scripture , and is affirmed to be unspeakable and full of glory , he that knows not , is scarce meet to paraphrase upon st. pauls epistles . neither is that peace with god through jesus christ , which is rought in the hearts of believers by the holy ghost , who creates the fruit of the lipps , peace , peace , unto them , a matter of any more affinity with a moral peaceableness of mind and affections . our faith also in god , and our faithfulness in our duties , trusts , offices and employments , are sufficiently distinct . so palpably must the scripture be corrupted and wrested to be made serviceable to this presumption . he yet adds another proof to the same purpose , if any man know distinctly what that purpose is ; namely , titus . . where he tells us that the same apostle make the grace of god , to consist in gratitude towards god , temperance towards our selves , and justice towards our neighbours . but these things are not so . for the apostle doth not say that the grace of god doth consist in these things , but that the grace of god teacheth us these things . neither is the grace here intended , any subjective or inherent grace , or to speak with our author any vertuous quality or vertue , but the love and grace of god himself , in sending jesus christ as declared in the gospel , was is manifest in the words and context beyond contradiction . and i cannot but wonder , how our author desirous to prove that the whole of our religion consists in moral vertues , and these only called graces because of the miraculous operations of god from his own grace in the first gospel converts , should endeavour to do it by these two testimonies ; the first whereof expresly assigns the duties of morality as in believers , to the operation of the spirit , and the latter in his judgment makes them to proceed from grace . our last inquiry is into what he ascribes unto his adversaries in this matter , and how he deals with them thereupon . this therefore he informs us pag. . it is not enough say they to be compleatly vertuous , unless ye have grace too . i can scarce believe that ever he heard any one of them say so , or ever read it in any of their writings . for there is nothing that they are more positive in , than that men cannot in any sense be compleatly vertuous unless they have grace ; and so cannot suppose them to be so , who have it not . they say indeed , that moral vertues , as before described , so far as they are attainable by , or may be exercised in the strength of mens own wills and natural faculties , are not enough to please god and to make men accepted with him . so that vertue as it may be without grace , and some vertues may be so for the substance of them , is not available unto salvation . and i had almost said that he is no christian that is of another mind . in a word , vertue is , or may be without grace , in all or any of the acceptations of it before laid down . where it is without the favour of god and the pardon of sin , where it is without the renewing of our natures , and the endowment of our persons with a principle of spiritual life , where it is not wrought in us by present efficacious grace , it is not enough ; nor will serve any mans turn with respect unto the everlasting concernments of his soul. but he gives in his exceptions , pag. . but when , saith he , we have set aside all manner of vertue , let them tell me what remains to be called grace , and give me any notion of it distinct from all morality , that consists in the right order and government of our actions in all our relations , and so comprehends all our duty ; and therefore if grace be not included in it , it is but a phantasme and an imaginary thing . i say first ; where grace is , we cannot set aside vertue , because it will and doth produce and effect it in the minds of men . but vertue may be , where grace is not , in the sense so often declared . secondly , take moral vertue in the notion of it here received and explained by our author , and i have given sundry instances before , of gracious duties , that come not within the verge or compass of the scheme given us of it . thirdly , the whole aimed at , lies in this , that vertue that governs our actions in all our duties may be considered either as the duty we owe to the law of nature , for the ends of it , to be performed in the strength of nature , and by the direction of it , or it may be considered as it is an especial effect of the grace of god in us , which gives it a new principle , and a new end , and a new respect unto the covenant of grace wherein we walk with god , the consideration where of frustrates the intention of our author in this discourse . but he renews his charge , pag. . so destructive of all true and real goodness is the very religion of those men , that are wont to set grace at odds with vertue ; and are so farr from making them the same , that they make them inconsistent ; and though a man be exact in all the duties of moral goodness , yet if he be a graceless person ( i. e. void of i know not what imaginary godliness ) he is but in a cleaner way to hell ; and his conversion is more hopeless than the vilest and most notorious sinners , and the morally righteous man is at a greater distance from grace , than the prophane ; and better be lend and debanched than live an honest and vertuous life , if you are not of the godly party ; with much more to this purpose . for the men that are wont to set grace at odds with vertue , and are so far from making them the same , that they make them inconsistent ; i wish our author would discover them , that he might take us along with him in his detestation of them . it is not unlikely , if all be true that is told of them , but that the gnosticks might have some principles not unlike this ; but beside them i never heard of any that were of this mind in the world . and in truth the liberty that is taken in these discourses , is a great instance of the morality under consideration . but the following words will direct us where these things are charged . for some say , that if a man be exact in all the duties of moral goodness , yet if he be a graceless person , void of i know not what imaginary godliness , he is but in a cleaner way to hell. i think i know both what , and who are intended , and that both are dealt withal with that candour we have been now accustomed unto . but first , you will scarce find those you intend over forward in granting that men may be exact in all the duties of moral goodness , and yet be graceless persons . for taking moral vertues to comprehend , as you do , their duties toward god , they will tell you such persons cannot perform one of them aright , much less all of them exactly . for they can neither trust in god , no believe him , nor fear him , nor glorifie him in a due manner . take the duties of moral goodness , for the duties of the law between man and man , and the observation of the outward duties of gods worship , and they say indeed , that they may be so performed as that in respect of them , men may be blameless , and yet be graceless . for that account if they mistake not the apostle paul gives of himself . phil. . , , . they do say therefore that many of these duties , so as to be useful in the world , and blameless before men , they may perform who are yet graceless . thirdly , this gracelessness is said to consist in being void of i know not what imaginary godliness . no , no ; it is to be void of the spirit of god , of the grace of christ , not to be born again , not to have a new spiritual life in christ , not to be united to him , or ingrafted in him , not to be accepted and made an heir of god , and enabled to a due spiritual evangelical performance of all duties of obedience , according to the tenour of the covenant ; these are the things intended . and as many with their moral duties may come short of them and be graceless ; so those to whom they are imaginary , must reject the whole gospel of christ as an imagination . and i must say , to give matter of a new charge , that to the best observation that i have been able to make in the world , none have been , nor are more negligent in the principal duties of morality , than those who are aptest to exalt them above the gospel , and the whole mystery of it ; unless morality do consist in such a course of life and conversation , as i will not at present charactarize . it is farther added , that the conversion of such a one , is more hopeless than the vilest and most notorious sinners ; and the morally righteous man , &c. setting aside the inviduous expression of what is here reflected upon , and there is nothing more openly taught in the gospel . the pharisees were a people morally righteous , whereon they trusted to themselves that they were righteous ; and yet our lord jesus christ told them , that publicans and harlots , the vilest and most notorious of sinners , entred before them into the kingdom of god. and where men trust to their own righteousness , their own duties , be they moral or what they will , there are no men farther from the way of the gospel than they . nay our saviour lets us know , that as such , the gospel is not concerned in them , not they in it . he came not , he sayes , to call the righteous , but sinners to repentance ; not men justifying , or lifting up themselves in a co●ceit of their moral duties , but those who are burdened and laden with a sense of their sins . and so in like manner , that the whole have no need of the physitian but the sick ; and st. paul declares what enemies they were to the righteousness of god , who went about to set up their own righteousness ; rom. . now because moral duties are incumbent on all persons , at all times , they are continually to be pressed upon all , from a sense of the authority , and command of god , indispensibly requiring all mens attendance unto them . yet such is the deceitfulness of the heart of man , and the power of unbelief , that oftentimes persons who through their education , or following convictions , have been brought to some observance of them , and being not enlightned in their minds to discern their insufficiency unto the great end of salvation , in and of themselves , are apt to take up with them , and to rest in them without ever coming to sincere repentance towards god , or faith in our lord jesus christ ; whereas others , the guilt of whose sins doth unavoidably press upon them , as it did on the publicans and sinners of old , are oft times more ready to look out after relief . and those who question these things , do nothing but manifest their ignorance in the scripture , and want of experience in the work of the ministry . but yet upon the account of the charge mentioned , so unduly framed , and impotently managed , our author makes an excursion into such an extravagancy of reproaches , as is scaree exceeded in his whole book : part of it i have considered before in our view of his preface ; and i am now so used to the noise and bluster wherewith he pours out the storm of his indignation , that i am altogether inconcerned in it , and cannot prevail with my self to give it any further consideration . these things though not direct to the argument in hand , and which on that account might have been neglected ; yet supposing that the author placed as much of his design in them , as in any part of his discourse , i could not wholly omit the consideration of ; not so much out of a desire for their vindication who are unduly traduced in them , as to plead for the gospel it self , and to lay a foundation of a further defence of the truths of it , if ocasiou shall so require . and we have also here an insight into the judgment of our author , or his mistake in this matter . he tells us that it is better to tollerate debaucheries and immoralities , than liberty of conscience , for men to worship god according to their light and perswasion . now all religion according to him , consisting in morality , to tollerate immoralities and debauckeries in conversation , is plainly to tollerate atheism ; which it seems is more eligible than to grant liberty of conscience , unto them who differ from the present establishment , only as to some things belonging to the outward worship of god. these things being premised , the argument it self pleaded in this chap. is capable of a speedy dispatch . it is to this purpose . the magistrate hath power over the consciences of men in reference to morals , or moral vertues , which are the principal things in religion , and therefore much more hath so in reference to the worship of god , which is of less importance . we have complained before of the ambiguity of these general terms , but it is to no purpose to do so any more , seeing we are not like to be relieved in this discourse . let us then take things as we find them , and satisfie our selves in the intention of the author , by that declaration which he makes of it up and down the chap. but yet here we are at a loss also . when he speaks , or seems to speak to this purpose , whether in the confirmation of the proposition , or the inference , whereof his argument consists , what he sayes is cast into such an inter-texture with invectives and reproaches , and expressed in such a loose declamatory manner , as it is hard to discover or find out what it is that he intends . suppose therefore in the first place , that a man should call his consequent into question ; namely that because the magistrate hath power over the consciences of his subjects in morals , that therefore he hath so also in matters of instituted worship ? how will he confirm and vindicate it ? two things are all i can observe that are offered in the confirmation of it . first , that these things of morality , moral vertues , are of more importance in religion than the outward worship of god , which the amplitude of power before asserted , is now reducing to a respect unto . secondly , that there is much more danger of his erring and mistaking in things of morality , than in things of outward worship , because of their great weight and importance . these things are pleaded , p. . and elsewhere up and down . that any thing else is offered , in the confirmation of this consequent i find not . and it may be some will think these proofs to be very weak and feeble , unable to sustain the weight that is laid upon them . for it is certain that the first rule , that he that hath power over the greater , hath so over the lesser , doth not hold unless it be in things of the same nature and kind ; and it is no less certain and evident , that there is an especial and formal difference between these things , namely moral vertues , and instituted worship ; the one depending as to their being and discovery on the light of nature , and the dictates of that reason which is common to all , and speakes the same language in the consciences of all mankind ; the other on pure revelation , which may be , and is variously apprehended . hence it is , that whereas there is no difference in the world about what is vertue and what is not , there is no agreement about what belongs to divine worship and what doth not . again ; lesser things may be exempted from that power and authority by especial priviledge or law , which hath the disposal of greater committed into it , and intrusted with it . as the magistrate amongst us , may take away the life of a man , which is the greatest of his concernments , the name of his all , for fellony , but cannot take away his estate or inheritance of land , which is a far less concernment unto him , if it be antecedently setled by law to other uses than his own . and if it cannot be proved that the disposal of the worship of god , as to what doth really and truly belong unto it , and all the parts of it , is exempted from all humane power by special law and priviledge , let it be disposed of as who so will , shall judge meet . nor is the latter consideration suggested to inforce this consequent of any more validity ; namely , that there is more danger of the magistrates erring or mistakes about moral vertue , than about rites of worship ; because that is of most concernment in religion . for it is true , that suppose a man to walk on the top of an high house or tower , on a plain floor with battlements or walls round about him , there will be more danger of breaking his neck , if he should fall from thence , than if he should fall from the top of a narrow wall that had not the fourth part of the heighth of the house . but there would not be so much danger of falling . for from the top of the house as circumstantiated , he cannot fall , unless he will wilfully and violently cast himself down headlong ; and on the top of the wall , it may be , he cannot stand , with the utmost of his heed and endeavours . the magistrate cannot mistake about moral vertues unless he will do it wilfully . they have their station fixed in the world , on the same ground and evidence with magistracy it self . the same evidence , the same common consent and suffrage of mankind is given unto moral vertues , as is to any government in the world. and to suppose a supream magistrate , a law-giver , to mistake in these things , in judging whether justice , and temperance , or fortitude , be vertues or no , and that in their legislative capacity , is ridiculous . neither nero nor caligula were ever in danger of any such mis-adventure . all the magistrates in the world at this day , are agreed about these things . but as to what concerns the worship of god , they are all at variance . there is no such evidence in these things , no such common suffrage about them , as to free any absolutely from failings and mistakes ; so that in respect of them , and not of the other , lyes the principal danger of miscarrying , as to their determination and administration . supposing therefore the premises our author layes down to be true , his inference from them is feeble , and obnoxious to various impeachments , whereof i have given some few instances only , which shall be increased if occasion require . but the assertion it self which is the foundation of these consequences , is utterly remote from accuracy and truth . it is said that the magistrate hath power over the consciences of men in reference unto moral duties , which are the principal parts of religion . our first and most difficult inquiry , is after the meaning of this proposition , the later after its truth . i ask then , first whether he hath power over the consciences of men with respect unto moral vertue , and over moral vertue it self , as vertue , and as a part of religion , or on some other account ; if his power respect vertue as a part of religion , then it equally extends it self to all that is so , by vertue of a rule which will not be easily everted . but it doth not appear that it so extends it self as to plead an obliging authority in reference unto all duties . for let but the scheme of moral duties , especially those whose object is god , given us by our author be considered , and it will quickly be discerned how many of them are exempted from all humane cognizance and authority ; and that from and by their nature as well as their use in the world. and it is in vain to ascribe an authority to magistrates which they have no power to exert , or take cognizance whether it be obeyed or no. and what can they do therein with respect unto gratitude to god , which holds the first place in the scheme of moral vertues here given in unto us . we are told also , p. . that in matters both of moral vertue , and divine worship , there are some rules of good and evil that are of an eternal and unchangeable obligation , and these can never be prejudiced or altered by any humane power , because the reason of their obligation arises from a necessity and constitution of nature , and therefore must be 〈◊〉 perpetual as that ; but then there are other rules of duty that are alterable according to the various accidents changes and conditions of humane life , and depend chiefly upon contracts and positive laws of kingdoms . it would not be unworthy our inquiry to consider what rules of moral duty they are , which are alterable and depend on accidents and contracts . but we might easily find work enough , should we call all such fond assertions to a just examination . neither doth the distinction here given us between various rules of moral vertue , very well answer what we are told , p. . namely , that every particular vertue is therefore such , because it is are semblance and imitation of some of the divine attributes , which i suppose they are not , whose rules and formes are alterable upon accidents and occasions . and we are taught also , pag. . that the practice of vertue consists in living suitable to the dictates of reason and nature ; which are rules not variable and changeable . there must be some new distinction to reconcile these things , which i cannot at present think of . that which i would enquire from hence is , whether the magistrates have power over the consciences of men in reference unto those things in morality , whose rules of good and evil are of an eternal obligation . that he hath not is evidently implyed in this place . and i shall not enter into the confusion of the ensuing discourse , where the latter sort of rules for vertue , the other member of the distinction , are turned into various methods of executing laws about outward acts of vertue or vice ; and the vertues themselves into outward expressions and significations of duty ; for i have at present no contest with this author about his manner of writing , nor do intend to have . it is enough that here at once all the principal and most important vertues are vindicated to their own unalterable rules as such , and the consciences of men in reference unto them put under another jurisdiction . and what then becomes of this argument , that the magistrate must have power over the consciences of men in matters of divine worship , because he hath so in things moral which are of greater importance , when what is so of importance , is exempted from his power . hence it sufficiently , appears that the authority of the magistrate over men , with reference unto moral vertue and duty , doth not respect vertue as vertue , but hath some other consideration . now what this is , is evident unto all . how moral vertues do belong unto religion and are parts of it , hath been before declared . but god who hath ordered all things in weight and measure , hath fore-designed them also to another end and purpose . for preparing mankind for political society in the world among themselves for a time , as well as for religious obedience unto himself , he inlayed his nature and composition with principles suited to both those ends , and appointed them to be acted with different respects unto them . hence moral vertues notwithstanding their peculiar tendency unto him , are appointed to be the instrument and ligament of humane society also . as the law of moses had in it a typical end , use , and signification , with respect to christ and the gospel , and a political use as the instrument of the government of the nation of the jews . now the power of the magistrate in respect of moral vertues , is in their latter use ; namely , as they relate to humane policy , which is concerned in the outward actings of them . this therefore is granted ; and we shall enquire farther whether any more be proved , namely , that the magistrate hath power over the outward actings of vertue and vice , so far as humane society or publick tranquility is concerned in them , and on that account . secondly , it may be enquired what is the power and authority over moral vertues , which is here ascribed unto the civil magistrate , and over the consciences of men , with respect unto them . is it such as to make that to be vertue which was not vertue before , or which was vice , and oblige men in conscience to practise it as vertue ? this would go a great way indeed , and answer somewhat of what is , or as it is said , may be done in the worship of god , when that is made a part of it which was not so before . but what name shall these new vertues be called by ? a new vertue both as to its acts and objects , will as much fly the imaginations of men , as a sixth sense doth . it may be our author will satisfie us as to this enquiry ; for he tells us , pag. . that he hath power to make that a particular of the divine law , that god hath not made so . i wish he had declared himself how , and wherein ; for i am afraid this expression as here it lyes , is offensive . the divine law is divine , and so is every particular of it● ; and how a man can make a thing divine , that is not so of it self , nor by divine institution , is hard to find out . it may be that only the subject matter of the law , and not the law it self formally is intended ; and to make a thing a particular of the divine law , is no more but to make the divine law require , that in particular of a man which it did not require of him before . but this particular , referrs to the nature , essence and being of the thing , or to the acting , and occasion of it in particular . and if it be taken in the latter sense , here is no more ascribed unto the magistrate , than is common with him to every man in the world. for every one that puts himself into new circumstances , or new relations , doth so make that unto him to be a particular of the divine law , which was not so before ; for he is bound and obliged unto the actual performance of many duties , which as so circumstantiated , he was not bo●●● unto before . but somewhat else seems to be intend●● from the ensuing discourse ; they are fully empowred to declare new instances of vertue and vice , and to introduce new duties in th● most important parts of religion . and y●● i am still at the same loss . for by his declaring new instances of vertue and vice , suppose he intends an authoritative declaration , such as that they have no other foundation , nor need none to make them what they are . they are new instances of vertue and vice , because so declared . and this suits unto the introducing of new duties in the most important parts of religion , made duties by that introduction . i wish i could yet learn what these new instances of vertue and vice are , or mean. whether they are new as vertues and vices , or as instances . for the first , would i could see a new practice of old virtues ; but to tell you the truth , i care not for any of the new vertues , that i have lately observed in the world ; nor do i hope ever to see any better new ones . if it be the instances that are new , i wish again i knew what were more in them , than the actual and occasional exercise of old duties . pag. , . conduce most to extricate us out of these ambiguities . there we are informed , that the laws of every nation do distinguish and settle mens rights , and properties , and that distinctly with respect whereunto , justice , that prime natural vertue , is in particular instances to be exercised . and pag. . it is further declared , that in the administration of justice , there may be great difference in the constitution of penalties and execution of men . this it seems is that which is aimed at ; the magistrate by his laws determines , whteher titius have set his hedge upon caius's ground ; and whether sempronius hath rightly conveyed his land or house , to his son , or neighbour , whereby what is just and lawfull in it self , is accommodated to the use of political society . he determines also how persons guilty of death shall be executed , and by whom , and in what manner ; whence it must needs follow that he hath power to assign new particulars of the divine law , to declare new bounds , or hedges , of right and wrong , which the law of god neither doth , nor can limit , or hath power over the consciences of men with respect to moral vertues ; which was to be demonstrated . let us lay aside these swelling expressions , and we shall find that all that can be ascribed unto the civil magistrate in this matter , is no more , than to preserve property and peace , by that rule and power over the outward actions of men , which is necessary thereunto . having made some enquiry into the termes of moral vertue and the magistrates power , it remains only that we consider what respect this case hath unto the consciences of men , with reference unto them . and i desire to know whether all mankind , be not obliged in conscience to the observation of all moral vertue , antecedently to the command or authority of the magistrate , who doth only inspect their observation of them as to the concerns of publick peace and tranquility . certainly if all moral vertue consists in living suitable to the dictates of reason , as we are told , and in a sense rightly , if the rule of them all and every one , which gives them their formal nature , be the law of our creation , which all mankind enter the world under an indispensable obligation unto , it cannot be denyed but that there is such an antecedent obligation on the consciences of men , as that inquired after . but the things mentioned are granted by our author ; nor can by any be denyed , without offering the highest outrage to scripture , reason , and the common consent of mankind . now if this obligation be thus on all men , unto all vertue as vertue , and this absolutely from the authority of god over them and their consciences , how comes an inferiour authority to interpose it self between that of god and their consciences , so immediately to oblige them . it is granted that when the magistrate commandeth and requireth the exercise of any moral duty , in a way suited unto publick good and tranquility , he is to be obeyed for conscience sake ; because he who is the lord of conscience doth require men to be obedient unto him , whereon they are obliged in conscience so to be . but if the things required of them be in themselves moral duties , as they are such , their consciences are obliged to observe and exercise them , from the command of god , and other obligation unto them as such , they neither have nor can have . but the direction and command for the exercise of them , in these and those circumstances , for the ends of publick . good whereunto they are directed , belongs unto the magistrate , who is to be obeyed . for as in things meerly civil , and which have nothing originally of morality in them , but secondarily only , as they tend to the preservation and welfare of humane society , which is a thing morally good , the magistrate is to be obeyed for conscience sake , and the things themselves as far as they partake of morality , come directly under the command of god which affects the conscience ; so in things that have an inherent and inseparable morality , and so respect god in the first place , when they come to have a civil sanction in reference to their exercise unto publick political good , that sanction is to be obeyed out of conscience ; but the antecedent obligation that was upon the conscience unto a due exercise of those duties , when made necessary by circumstances , is not superseded , nor any new one added thereunto . i know what is said , but i find not as yet what is proved from these things , concerning the uncontroleable and absolute power of the supream magistrate , over religion and the consciences of men . some things are added indeed here up and down , about circumstances of divine worship , and the power of ordering them by the magistrate , which though there may be some different conceptions about , yet they no way reach the cause under debate . but as they are expressed by our author , i know not of any one writer in and of the church of england , that hitherto hath so stated them , as they are by him . for he tells us pag. . that all rituals , ceremonies , postures and manners of performing the outward expressions of devotion , that are not chargeable with countenancing vice or disgracing the deity , are capable of being adopted into the ministeries of divine service , and are not exempted from being subject to the determinations of humane power . whether they are so or no , the magistrate i presume is to judge ; or all this flourish of words and concessions of power , vanish into smoak . his command of them binds the consciences of men to observe them , according to the principle under consideration . hence it must be absolutely in the power of every supream magistrate to impose on the christian subjects , a greater number of ceremonious observances in the worship of god , and those of greater weight than ever were laid upon the jews . for who knows not that under the names of rituals , ceremonies , postures , manners of performing all divine service , what a butrdensome heap of things are imposed in the roman church ; whereunto as far as i know a thousand more may be added , not chargeable in themselves with either of the crimes , which alone are allowed to be put in , in barr or plea against them . and whether this be the liberty whereunto jesus christ hath vindicated his disciples and church , is left unto the judgement of sober men . outward religious worship we know is to be performed by natural actions ; these have their circumstances , and those oft-times because of the publick concernments of the exercise of religion , of great importance . these may be ordered by the power , and according to the wisdome of those in authority . but that they should make so many things , as this assertion allows them to make to belong unto , and to be parts of the worship of god , whereof not one is enjoyned or required by him , and the consciences of men be thereby obliged unto their observance ; i do not believe , nor is it here at all proved . to close this discourse about the power of obliging the consciences of men ; i think our author grants that conscience is immediately obliged to the observation of all things that are good in themselves , from the law of our creation . such things as either the nature of god , or our own require from us , our consciences surely are obliged immediately by the authority of god to observe . nor can we have any dispensation for the non-performance of our duty , from the interposition of the commands and authority of any of the sons of men. for this would be openly and directly to set up men against god , and to advance them or their authority above him or his . things evidently deduced , and necessarily following the first principles and dictates of nature , are of the same kind with themselves , and have the authority of god no less enstamped on them than the other ; and in respect unto them , conscience cannot by vertue of inferiour commands , plead an exemption . things of meer revelation do remain ; and concerning them i desire to know , whether we are not bound to observe and do , whatever god in his revealed will commands us to observe and do , and to abstain from whatever he forbids , and this indispensably ? if this be denyed i will prove it with the same arguments whereby i can prove that there is a god , and that we are his creatures made to serve him ; for the reason of these things is inseparable from the very being of god. let this be granted , and ascribe what ye will , or please , or can , to the supream magistrate , and you shall not from me have the least contradiction . a survey of the third chapter . the third chapter entertains us with a magnificent grant of liberty of conscience . the very first paragraph asserts , a liberty of conscience in mankind over all their actions whether moral , or strictly religious . but lest this should prove a bedlam concession that might mischief the whole design in hand , it is delivered to the power of a keeper , who yet upon examination is no less wild and extravagant , than it self is esteemed absolutely to be . this is , that they have it as far as concerns their judgements , but not their practice ; that is ; they have liberty of conscience over their actions , but not their practices ; or over their practices , but not over their pratices . for upon tryal their actions and practices will prove to be the same . and i do not as yet well understand , what is this liberty of conscience over mens actions , is it to do , or not to do , as their consciences dictate to them ? this is absolutely denied , and opposed in the chap. it self . is it to judge of their actions as done , whether they be good or evil ? this conscience is at no liberty in . for it is determined to a judgment in that kind naturally , and necessarily , and must be so whilest it hath the light of nature , and word of god to regard , so far as a rule is capable of giving a measure and determination to things to be regulated by it ; that is ; its moral actings , are morally determined . what then this liberty of conscience over mens actions should be , where they can neither act freely according to their consciences what they are to do , nor abstain from what they are not to do , nor are at liberty to judge what they have done to be good or bad , i cannot divine . let us search after an explication of these things in the paragraph it self , whose contents are represented in the words mentioned . here we are told , that this liberty consists in mens thinking of things according to their own perswasion , and therein asserting the freedom of their judgements . i would be loth to think that this liberty of mens consciences over all their moral actions , should at first dash dwindle into a liberty in speculations ; that men may think what they will , opine as they please , in , and about things that are not to be brought into practice ; but yet as far as i can perceive , i must think so , or matters will come to a worse issue . but these things must be a little farther examined , and that very briefly . here is mention of liberty of conscience ; but what conscience is , or what that liberty is , is not declared . for conscience it is called sometimes the mind , sometimes the vnderstanding , sometimes opinion , sometimes described by the liberty of thinking , sometimes termed an imperious faculty , which things without much discourse , and more words , than i can now afford to use , are not reconcilable amongst themselves . besides , liberty is no proper●affection of the mind , or understanding . though i acknowledge the mind , and its actings to be naturally free from outward compulsion , or coaction ; yet it is capable of such a determination from the things proposed unto it , and the manner of their proposal , as to make necessary the elicitation of its acts. it cannot but judge that two and three make five . it is the will that is the proper seat of liberty ; and what some suppose to be the ultimate determination of the practical understanding , is indeed an act of the will. it is so if you speak of liberty naturally and morally , and not of state and condition , which are here confounded . but suppose what you will to be conscience , it is moral actions or duties that are here supposed to be the object of its actings . now what are , or can be the thoughts , or actings of the mind of man about moral actions , but about their vertue , or their vice , their moral good or evil ? nor is a conclusion of what is a mans own duty in reference to the practice of them , possibly to be separated from them . that then which is here asserted is , that a man may think , judge , or conceive such or such a thing to be his duty , and yet have thereby no obligation put upon him to perform it ; for conscience , we are informed , hath nothing to do beyond the inward thoughts of mens minds . to state this matter a little more clearly ; let us take conscience in the most usual acceptation of it , and that which answers the experience of every man that ever looks into the affairs and concerns within ; and so it is , the practical judgment that men make of themselves , and of their actions , or what they are to do , and what they are not to do , what they have done , or what they have omitted , with reference unto the judgement of god , at present declared in their own hearts , and in his word , and to be fully executed at the last day . for we speak of conscience as it is amongst christians , who acknowledge the word of god , and that for a double end ; first , as the rule of conscience it self ; secondly , as the declaration of the will of god , as to his approbation , or rejecting of what we do , or omit . suppose then , that a man make a judgment in his conscience , regulated by the word of god , and with respect unto the judgement of god concerning him , that such and such a thing is a duty , and whose performance is required of him ; i desire to know , whether any obligation be upon him from thence to act accordingly ? it is answered that the territory of conscience is confined unto mens thoughts , judgements and perswasions , and these are free , yea , no doubt ; but for outward actions there is no remedy , but they must be subject to the cognizance of humane laws , pag. . who ever doubted of it ? he that would have men so have liberty from outward actions , as not to have those actions cognoscible by the civil power , as to the end of publick tranquility , but to have their whole station firmed absolutely in the world upon the plea of conscience , would no doubt lay a foundation for confusion in all government . but what is this to the present enquiry , whether conscience lay an obligation on men , as regulated by the word of god , and respecting him , to practise according to its dictates ? it is true enough ; that if any of its practices do not please , or satisfy the magistrate , their authors must for ought i know , stand to what will follow , or ensue on them to their prejudice ; but this frees them not , from the obligation that is upon them in conscience unto what is their duty . this is that , which must be here proved , if any thing be intended unto the purpose of this author ; namely that notwithstanding the judgment of conscience concerning any duty , by the interposition of the authority of the magistrate to the contrary , there is no obligation ensues for the performance of that duty . this is the answer that ought plainly to be returned , and not a suggestion that outward actions must fall under the cognizance of the magistrate ; which none ever doubted of , and which is nothing to the present purpose ; unless he would have them to fall under the magistrates cognizance , as that his will should be the supream rule of them ; which i think he cannot prove . but what sense the magistrate will have of the outward actions , wherein the discharge of mans duty doth consist , is of another consideration . this therefore is the state of the present case applied unto religious worship . suppose the magistrate command such things in religion , as a man in his conscience guided by the word , and respecting god , doth look upon as vnlawful , and such as are evil , and sin unto him , if he should perform them ; and forbid such things in the worship of god , as he esteems himself obliged in conscience to observe as commands of christ ; if he may practise the things so commanded , and omit the things so forbidden , i fear he will find himself within doors continually at confession , saying with trouble enough ; i have done those things , which i ought not to have done , and i have left undone those things , which i ought to have done , and there is no health in me ; unless this author can prove that the commands of god respect only the minds of men ; but not their outward actions which are left unto the authority of the magistrate alone . if no more be here intended , but that whatever conscience may require of any , it will not secure them , but that when they come to act outwardly according to it , the civil magistrate may , and will consider their actions , and allow them , or forbid them according to his own judgement , it were surely a madness to deny it , as great , as to say the sun shineth not at noon day . if conscience to god be confined to thoughts , and opinions , and speculations about the general notions , and notices of things , about true and false , and unto a liberty of judging , and determining upon them what they are , whether they are so or no 〈◊〉 the whole nature and being of conscience , and that to the reason , sense , and experience of every man , is utterly overthrown . if conscience be allowed to make its judgement of what is good or evil , what is duty or sin , and no obligation be allowed to ensue from thence unto a suitable practice , a wide door is opened unto atheism , and thereby the subversion of all religion and government in the world . this therefore is the summ of what is asserted in this matter ; conscience according to that apprehension , which it hath of the will of god about his worship , ( whereunto we confine our discourse ) obligeth men to act , or forbear accordingly ; if their apprehensions are right and true , just and equal , what the scripture , the great rule of conscience doth declare and require , i hope none upon second thoughts will deny , but that such things are attended with a right unto a liberty to be practised , whilst the lord jesus christ is esteemed the lord of lords , and king of kings , and is thought to have power to command the observance of his own institutions . suppose these apprehensions to be such as may in some things , be they more or less , be judged not to correspond exactly with the great rule of conscience , yet supposing them also to contain nothing inconsistent with , or of a disturbing nature to civil society , and publick tranquillity , nothing that gives countenance to any vice , or evil , or is opposite to the principal truths and main duties of religion , wherein the minds of men in a nation do coalesce , nor carry any politick entangle●ments along with them ; and add thereunto the peaceableness of the persons posses● with those apprehensions , and the impossibility they are under to devest themselves of them , and i say natural right , justice , equity , religion , conscience , god himself in all , and his voice in the hearts of all unprejudiced persons , do require that neither the persons themselves , on the account of their consciences , have violence offered unto them , nor their practices in pursuit of their apprehensions , be restrained by severe prohibitions and penalties . but whereas the magistrate is allowed to judge , and dispose of all outward actions in reference to publick tranquility , if any shall assert principles , as of conscience , tending , or obliging unto the practice of vice , immorality , or sin , or to the disturbance of publick society , such principles being all notoriously judged by scripture , nature , the common consent of mankind , and inconsistent with the fundamental principles of humane polity , may be in all instances of their discovery and practice , coerced , and restrained . but plainly , as to the commands of conscience , they are of the same extent with the commands of god : if these respect only the inward man , or the mind , conscience doth no more ; if they respect outward actions , conscience doth so also . from the liberty of conscience , a proceed is made to christian liberty , which is said to be a duty , or priviledg founded upon the ( chimaerical ) liberty of conscience before granted . but these things stand not in the relation imagined ; liberty of conscience is of natural right , christian liberty is a gospel-priviledge , though both may be pleaded in bar of unwarrantable impositions on conscience . but these things are so described by our author , as to be confounded . for the christian liberty described in this paragraph , is either restrained to matters of pure speculation , wherein the mind of man is left entirely free to judge of the truth , and falsehood of things ; or as it regards things that fall under laws and impositions , wherein men are left intirely free to judge of them , as they are objects of meer opinion . now how this differs from the liberty of conscience granted before , i know not . and that there is some mistake in this description of christian liberty , need no other consideration to evince but this ; namely that christian liberty , as our author tells us , is a priviledge , but this is not so , being that which is equally common unto all mankind . this liberty is necessary unto humane nature , nor can it be divested of it , and so it is not a priviledge that includes a specialty in it . every man cannot but think what he thinks , and judge what he judgeth , and that when he doth so , whether he will or no ; for every thing when it is , and as it is , is necessary . in the use of what means they please , to guide , direct , and determine their thoughts , their liberty doth consist ; this is equal in all , and natural unto all . now this inward freedom of our judgements is , it seems , our christian liberty , consistent with any impositions upon men in the exercise of the worship of god , with an obligation on conscience , unto their use and practice ; a liberty indeed of no value , but a meer aggravation of bondage ; and these things are further discoursed , sect. . pag. . wherein we are told , that this prerogative of our christian liberty , is not so much any new favour granted in the gospel , as the restauration of the mind of man to its natural priviledge , by exempting us from the yoke of the ceremonial lam , whereby things in themselves indifferent were tyed upon the conscience with as indispensable an obligation , as the rule of essential goodness , and equitys during the whole period of mosaick dispensation ; which being corrected by the gospel , those indifferent things , that have been made necessary by a divine positive command , returned to their own nature to be used , or omitted , only as occasion should direct . it is true , that a good part of our christian liberty , consists in our deliverance from the yoke of mosaical institutions ; but that this is not so much a new favour granted in the gospel , as the restauration of the mind of man to its natural priviledge , is an insertion that runs parallel with many others in this discourse . this priviledge , as all others of the gospel are , is spiritual , and its outward concerns , and exercise , are of no value , where the mind is not spiritually made free by christ. and it is uncertain what is meant by the restauration of the mind to its natural priviledge ; if the priviledge of the mind in its condition of natural purity is intended , as it was before the entrance of sin , it is false ; if any priviledge , the mind of man in its corrupt depraved condition is capable of , be designed , it is no less untrue . in things of this nature , the mind in that condition is in bondage , and not capable of any liberty ; for it is a thing ridiculous , to confound the meer natural liberty of our wills , which is an affection inseparable from that faculty , with a moral , or spiritual liberty of mind , relating unto god and his worship . but this whole paragraph runs upon no small mistake ; namely that the yoke of mosaical institutions , consisted in their imposition on the minds , and judgments of men , with an opinion of the antecedent necessity of them . for although the words recited , things in themselves indifferent , were tyed upon the conscience with as indispensable an obligation as the rules of essential goodness and equity , may be restrained to their use , exercise , and observation ; yet the conclusion of it , that whatever our superiours impose upon us , whether in matters of religious worship , or any other duties of morality , there neither is , nor can be any intrenchment upon our christian liberty , provided it be not imposed with an opinion of antecedent necessity of the thing it self , with the whole scope of the argument insisted on , makes it evident to be the sense intended . but this is wide enough from the mark ; the jews were never obliged , to judge the whole systeme of their legal institutions , to be any way necessary , antecedent unto their institution and appointment ; nor were they obliged to judge their intrincsik nature changed by their institution , only they knew they were obliged to their constant , and indispensable practice , as parts of the worship of god , instituted and commanded by him , who hath the supream authority over their souls and consciences . there was indeed a bondage frame of spirit upon them in all things , especially in their whole worship of god , as the apostle paul several times declares . but this is a thing of another nature , though our delivery from it , be also a part of christian liberty . this was no part of their inward , no more than their outward bondage , that they should think , believe , judge or esteem the things themselves enjoyned them , to be absolutely of any other nature , than they were ; had they been obliged unto any such judgement of things , they had been obliged to deceive themselves , or to be deceived ; but by the absolute authority of god , they were indispensibly bound in conscience to the actual observance , and continual use of such a number of ceremonies , carnal ordinances , and outward observances , as being things in themselves low , and mean , called by the apostle beggerly elements , and enjoyned with so great strictness , and under so severe penalties , many of them , of excision , or extermination from among the people , as became an intolerable , and insupportable yoke unto them . neither doth the apostle peter dispute about a judgement of their nature , but the necessity of their observation , when he calls them a yoke , which neither they , nor their fathers were able to bear , acts . . and when st. paul gives a charge to believers , to stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ hath made them fres , it is with respect unto the outward observation of mosaical rites , as by him instituted , and not as to any inward judgment of their minds concerning their nature , antecedent unto that institution . his whole disputation on that subject , respects only mens practice , with regard unto an authoritative obligation thereunto , which he pleaded to be now expired , and removed . and if this christian liberty , which he built and proceeded upon , be of force to free , not our minds from the judgement that they had before of things in themselves , but our persons from the necessary practice , and observance of things instituted of god , however antecedently indifferent in themselves ; i think it is , at least , of equal efficacy , to exempt us from the necessary practice of things imposed on us in the worship of god , by men . for , setting aside the inequality of the imposing authority , which casts the advantage on the other side , ( for these legal institutions were imposed on the church by god himself , those now intended are such matters , as our superiours of themselves impose on us in religious worship ) the case is absolutely the same ; for as god did not give the law of commandment's contained in ordinances unto the jews , from the goodness of things required therein , antecedent to his command , which should make them necessary to be practised by them for their good ; but did it of his own soveraign arbitrary will and pleasure ; so he obliged not the people themselves unto any other judgement of them , but that they were necessarily to be observed ; and setting aside the consideration of his command , they were things in their own nature altogether indifferent ; so is it in the present case ; it is pleaded that there is no imposition on the minds , consciences , or judgements of men , to think or judge otherwise of what is imposed on them , than as their nature is , and doth require ; only they are obliged unto their usage , observance , and practice ; which is to put us into a thousand times worse condition than the jews , if instances of them should be multiplyed , as they may lawfully 〈◊〉 every year ; seeing it much more quiet● the mind ; to be able to resolve its thought● immediately into the authority of go● under its yoke , than into that of man. i● therefore we are freed from the one by our christian liberty , we are so much more from the other ; so , as that being made free by christ , we should not be the servants of men , in things belonging to his service and worship . from this discovery here made of the nature of christian liberty , our author makes some deductions , p. , . concerning the nature of religious worship , wherein he tells us , that the whole substance of religious worship is transacted within the mind of man , and dwells in the heart , and thoughts , the soul being its proper seat , and temple , where men may worship their god as they please , without offending their prince ; and that external worship is no part of religion it self . i wish he had more clearly , and distinctly expressed his mind in this matter ; for his assertions , in the sense the words seem to bear , are prodigiously false , and such as will open a door to atheism with all villany and confusion in the world. for who would not think this to be his intention ; let men keep their minds and inward thoughts , and apprehensious right for god , and then they may practise outwardly in religion what they please ; one thing one day , another another ; be papists and protestants , arians and homousians ; yea mahometans and christians ; any thing , every thing , after the manner of the country , and laws of the prince , where they are , and live ; the rule that ecebolius walked by of old ? i think there is no man , that owns the scripture , but will confess that this is , at least , if not a direct , yet an interpretative rejection of the whole authority of god. and may not this rule be quickly extended unto oaths themselves , the bonds and ligaments of humane society ? for whereas in their own formal nature they belong to the worship of god , why may not men pretend to keep up their reverence unto god , in the internal part of them , or their esteem of him in their invocation of his name , but as to the outward part , accommodate it unto what by their interest is required of them ; so swearing with their tongues , but keeping their mind at liberty ? if the principles laid down be capable of any other more tolerable sense , and such as may be exclusive of these inferences , i shall gladly admit it ; at present what is here deduced from them , seems to be evidently included in them . it is true indeed , that natural , moral , or internal worship , consisting in faith , love , fear , thankfulness , submission , dependance , and the like , hath its constant seat , and residence in the souls , and minds of men ; but that the wayes whereby these principles of it are to be outwardly exercised , and expressed , by gods command and appointment , are not also indispensably necessary unto us , and parts of his worship , is utterly false . that which principally in the scripture , comes under the notion of the worship of god , is the due observance of his outward institutions ; which divines have upon unquestionable grounds , contended to be commanded and appointed in general in the second commandment of the decalogue , whence all particular institutions in the several seasons of the church , are educed , and resolved into the authority of god therein expressed . and that account which we have here given us of outward worship , namely , that it is no part of religion it self , but only an instrument to express the inward veneration of the mind , by some outward action or posture of the body , as it is very difficultly to be accommodated unto the sacrifices of old , or the present sacraments of the church , which were , and are parts of outward worship , and , as i take it , of religion ; so the being an instrument unto the purpose mentioned , doth not exclude any thing from being also a part of religion , and worship it self , if it be commanded by god to be performed in his service , unto his glory . it is pretended that all outward worship is only an exteriour signification of honour ; but yet all the parts of it in their performance , are acts of obedience unto god , and are the proper actings of faith , love , and submission of soul unto god , which if they are not his worship , and parts of religion , i know not what may be so esteemed . let then outward worship , stand in what relation it will to inward spiritual honour , where god requires it , and commands it , it is no less necessary and in dispensably to be performed , than any part of inward worship it self , and is a no less important duty of religion . for any thing comes to be a part of religious worship outwardly to be performed , not from its own nature , but from its respect unto the command of god ; and the end whereunto it is by him designed . so the apostle tells us that with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made un● salvation , rom. . confession is but the exteriour signification of the faith , that is i● our hearts ; but yet it is no less necessary to salvation , than faith it self is to righteousness . and those , who regulate their obedience , and religious worship by the commands of god , knowing that which way ever they are signified , by inbred light , or superadded revelation , it is they which give their obedience its formal nature , making it religious , will not allow that place and use of the outward worship required by god himself , which should exclude it from being religious , or a part of their religion . but upon the whole matter our author affirms , that in all ages of the world , god hath left the management of his outward worship unto the discretion of men , unless when to determine some particulars hath been usefull to some other purpose , pag. . the management of outward worship , may signifie no more but the due performance of it ; and so i acknowledge that though it be not left unto mens discretion to observe , or not observe it , yet it is too their duty and obedience , which are their discretion and their wisdom . but the management here understood , is opposed to gods own determination of particular forms , that is , his especial institutions ; and hereof i shall make bold to say , that it was never in any age so left to the discretion of men . to prove this assertion , sacrifices are singled out as an instance ; it is known , and granted , that these were the most solemn part of the outward worship of god for many ages ; and that there was a general consent of mankind unto the use of them ; so that however the greatest part of the world apostatized from the true , only , and proper object of all religious worship , worship , yet they retained this mode and medium of it . these sacrifices we are told , p. . did not owe their original unto any divine institution , but were made choice of by good men as a fit way of imitating the gratefull resentments of their minds . the argument alone , as far as i can find , fixed on to firm this assertion is , that those who teach the contrary , and say that this mode of worship was commanded , do say so without proof , or evidence . our author , for the most part , sets off his assertions at no less rate than as such , without whose admittance , all order , and government , and almost every thing that is good amongst mankind , would be ruined and destroyed . but he hath the unhappiness to found them ordinarily not only on principles , and o●●nions dubious , and uncertain ; but on su●● paradoxes , as have been by sober and lear●●ed men generally decried . such is this 〈◊〉 the original of sacrifices here insisted o● the divines of the church of rome , do g●●nerally contend that religion and sacrific● are so related , that the one cannot be with●out the other . hence they teach go● would have required sacri●ices in the st● of innocency , had mankind continued therein . and though the instance be ill laid and not proved , yet the general rule applyed unto the religion of sinners , is no● easily to be evicted . for as in christian religion we have a sacrifice that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as to its efficacy , alwayes newly offered , and living ; so before the personal offering of it in the body of chirst , there was no season or age , without a due representation of it in sacrifices typical , and of mystical signification . and although there be no express mention in the scripture of their institution , ( for these are ancient things ) yet there is as good warrant for it , as for offering , and burning incense only with sacred fire taken from the altar , which was of an heavenly traduction ; for a neglect whereof the priests were consumed with fire from before the lord ; that is , though an express command be not recorded for their institution and observation , yet enough may be collected from the scripture that they were of a divine extract , and original . and if they were arbitrary inventions of some men , i desire to have a rational account given me of their catholicism in the world ; and one instance more of any thing not natural , or divine , that ever prevailed to such an absolute universal acceptance amongst mankind . it is not so safe , i suppose , to assign an arbitrary original , unto any thing that hath obtained an universal consent and suffrage ; lest men be thought to set their own houses on fire , on purpose to consume their neighbours . besides , no tolerable colour can be given to the assertion , that they were the invention of good men . the first notice we have of them , is , in those of cain and abel , whereof one was a bad man , and of the evil one , and yet must be looked on as the principal inventor of sacrifices , if this fiction be allowed . some of the antients indeed thought , that adam sacrificed the beasts to god , whose skins his first garments were made of ; and if so , he was very pregnant and sudden in his invention , if he had no direction from god. but more than all this , bloody sacrifices were types of christ from the foundation of the world ; and socinus himself , who , and his followers are the principal assertors of this paradox , grants that christ is called the lamb of god , with respect unto the sacrifices of old , even before the law ; as he is termed a lamb slain from the foundation of the world , not only with respect unto the efficacy of his sacrifice but to the typical representation of it . and he that shall deny , that the patriarchs in their sacrifices had respect unto the promised seed , will endeavour the shaking of a pillar of the churches creed . now i desire to know how men , by their own invention , or authority , could assign such an end unto their sacrifices , if they were not of divine prescription , if not designed of god thereunto . again ; the apostle tells us , abel offered his sacrifice by faith , heb. . . and faith hath respect unto the testimony or god , revealing , commanding , and promising to accept our duty . wherever any thing is done in faith , there an assent is included to this , that god is true , joh. . . and what it doth , is thereby distinguished from will-worship , that is resolved into the commandments , and doctrines of men , which whoso rest on , make void the commandment of god , matth. . , . and the faith of abel as to its general nature was the evidence of things not seen , and the substance of things hoped for , heb. . . which in this matter it could not be , if it had neither divine command , nor promise to rest upon . it is evident therefore that sacrifices were of a divine original ; and the instance in them to prove , that the outward worship of god hath in all ages been left unto the prudence , and management of men , is feeble , and such as will give no countenance unto what it is produced in the justification of ; and herewith the whole discourse of our author on this subject falls to the ground , where i shall at present let it lye , though it might in sundry particulars be easily crumbled into useless asseverations , and some express contradictions . in the close of this chapter , an application is made , of what hath been before argued , or rather dictated , unto a particular controversie about significant ceremonies . i am not willing to engage in any contests of that nature ; seeing , to the due handling of them , a greater length of discourse would be necessary , than i think meet at present to draw forth this survey unto . only seeing a very few words , may serve to manifest the loosness of what is here discoursed , to that purpose , i shall venter on the patience of the reader wit● an addition of them . we have therefore in the first place , a reflection on the prodigious impertinency of the clamour against th● institution of significant ceremonies , when i● is the only use of ceremonies , as all other outward expressions of religion , to be significan● . i do somewhat admire at the temper of this author , who cannot express his disser●● from others , in controverted points of the meanest and lowest concernment , but with crying out prodigies , clamours , impertinencies , and the like expressions of astonishment in himself , and contempt of others . he might reserve some of these great words for more important occasions . but yet i joyn with him thus fa● in what he pleads ; that ceremonies instituted in the worship of god , that art not significant , are things very insignificant ; and such as deserve not the least contention about them . he truly also in the next words tells us , that all outward worship is a sign of inward honour . it is so ; both in civil things , and sacred . all our questionis , how these instituted ceremonies come to be significant , and what it is they signifie , and whether it be lawful to assign a significancy to them in the worship of god , when indeed they have none , of the kind intended ? to free us from any danger herein he informs us , p. . that all the magistrates power of instituting significant ceremonies , amounts to no more , than a power of determining what shall , or what shall not , be visible signs of honour , and this can be no vsurpation upon the consciences of men . this is new language , and such as we have not formerly been used unto in the church of england ; namely , that of the magistrates instituting significant ceremonies ; it was of old , the churches appointing ceremonies for decency and order . but all the terms of that assertion are now metamorphosed ; the church into the magistrates ; appointing , which respects exercise , into institution , which respects the nature of the thing , and hath a singular use and sense in this matter ( or let them pass for the same ) and order and decency , into ceremonies significant . these things were indeed implyed before , but not so fully and plainly expressed or avowed . but the honour here intended in this matter , is the honour , which is given to god in his worship . this is the honour of faith , love , fear , obedience spiritual , and holy , in jesus christ. to say that the magistrate hath power to institute visible signs of this honour , to be observed in the outward worship of god , is upon the matter to say that he hath power to institute new sacraments ; for so such things would be . and to say what neither is , nor can be proved , nor is here either logically , or any way regularly , attempted so to be . the compiring of the ceremonies and their signification , with words and their signification , will not relieve our author in this matter . some things are naturally significant of one another ; so effects are of causes ; so is smoke of fire ; and such were the signes of the weather mentioned by our saviour , matth. . , . thus i suppose ceremonies are not significant ; they do not naturally signifie the things whereunto they are applyed ; for if they did , there would be no need of their institution . and they are here said to be instituted by the magistrate . again ; there are customary signes , some it may be catholick , many topical , that have prevailed by custome , and usage , to signifie such things , as they have no absolute natural coherence with , or relation unto ; such are putting off the hat in sign of reverence , with others innumerable . and both these sorts of signs , may have some use about the service , and worship of god , as might be manifested in instances . but the signes we enquire after , are voluntary , arbitrary and instituted as our author confesseth ; for we do not treat of appointing some ceremonies for order and decency , which our canons take notice of , but of instituting ceremonies for signification , such as neither naturally , nor meerly by custome and usage , come to be significant , but only by vertue of their institution . now concerning these one rule may be observed ; namely , that they cannot be of one kind , and signifie things of another , by vertue of any command , and consent of men , unless they have an absolute authority both over the sign , and thing signified , and can change their natures , or create a new relation between them . to take therefore things natural , that are outward , and visible , and appoint them to be signs not natural , nor civil , nor customary , but mystical of things spiritual , supernatural , inward , and invisible , and , as such , to have them observed in the church , or worship of god , is a thing which is not as yet proved to be lawfull ; signifie thus naturally they never can , seeing there is no natural relation between them ; civilly , or by consent they do not so ; for they are things sacred , which they are supposed to signifie ; and are so far from signifying by consent , that those , who plead for their signification , do not agree wherein it doth consist . they must therefore signifie so mystically , and spiritually ; and signa , cum ad res divinas pertinent , sunt sacramenta , sayes austin ; these things are sacraments ; and when men can give mystical , and spiritual efficacy to any of their own institutions ; when they can make a relation between such signes , and the things signified by them ; when they can make that teaching , and instructing in spiritual things , and the worship of god , which he hath not made so , nor appointed , blessed , or consecrated to that end ; when they can bind gods promises of assistance , and acceptance to their own inventions ; when they can advance what they will into the same rank , and series of things in the worship of god , with the sacrifices of old , or other parts of instituted worship introduced into the church by gods command , and attended with his promise of gracious acceptance , then and not before may they institute the significant ceremonies here contended for . words , it is true , are signs of things ; and those of a mixed nature ; partly natural , partly by consent . but they are not of one kind , and signi●ie things of another ; for , say the schoolmen , where words are signs of sacred things , they are signs of them as things , but not as sacred . a survey of the fourth chapter . in the fourth chapter we have no concern ; the hypothesis whose confutation he hath undertaken , as it is in it self false , so it is rather suited to promote what he aims at , than what he opposeth ; and the principles which himself proceedeth on , do seem to some to border on , if not to be borrowed from his , and those which are here confuted . and thence it is that the foundations , which he layes down in the entrance of this discourse , are as destructive of his own pretensions , as of those , against which they are by himself improved . for it is granted , and asserted by him , that there are actions , and duties in , and about which , the consciences of men are not to be obliged by humane authority , but have an antecedent obligation on them from the authority of god himself ; so that disobedience unto the contrary commands of humane authority is no sin , but an indispensible duty ; and although he seems at first to restrain things of this nature , unto things natural , and of an essential rectitude ; that is , the prime dictates of the law of nature ; yet he expresly extends it i● instances , unto the belief of the truth of th● gospel , which is a matter of meer and purr revelation : and hereon he adds , the formall , and adequate reason of this exemption of conscience from humane authority , and i● obligation unto duty , before its consideration without it , and against it , which is , not because subjects are in any thing free from the authority of the supream power on earth , but because they are subject to a superiour i● heaven , and they are then only excused from the duty of obedience to their soveraign , when they cannot give it without rebellion against god ; so that it is not originally any right of their own , that exempts them from a subjection to the soveraign power in all things , but it is purely gods right of governing his own creatures , that magistrates then invade , when they make edicts to violate , or controll his laws . it is about religion , and the worship of god that we are discoursing ; now in these things no man ever thought that it was originally a right of subjects , as subjects , abstracting from the consideration of the authority of god , that should exempt them from a subjection to the soveraign power . for though some of the antients discourse at large , that it is of natural right and equity , that every one should worship god as he would himself , yet they founded this equity in the nature of god , and the authority of his commands . this exemption then ariseth merely , as our author observes , because they are subject to a superiour power in heaven , which excuseth them from the duty of obedience to their superiours on earth , when they cannot give it without rebellion against god ; whence it undeniably follows that that supream power in heaven hath exempted these things from all inferiour powers on earth . extend this now unto all things wherein men have , and ought to have a regard unto that superiour power in heaven , as it must be extended , or the whole is ridiculous , ( for that heavenly supremacy is made the formall reason of the exemption here granted , ) and all that our author hath been so earnestly contending for in the preceeding chapters , falls to the ground . for no man pleads exemption from subjection unto , yea from giving active obedience unto the authority , and commands of the magistrate , even in things religious , but merely on the account of his subjection to the authority of god heaven ; and , where this is so , he is set● liberty by our author from all contra● commands of men . this is bellarmine's 〈◊〉 tissimum est , which , as king james obse●ved , overthrows all , that he had contened for in his five books de justificatione . a survey of the fifth chapter . the fifth chapter is at such variance with it self , and what is elsewhere dictated in the treatise , that it would require no small labour , to make any tollerable composition of things between them . this i shall not engage in , as not being of my present concernment . what seems to tend unto the carrying on of the design of the whole , may be called unto some account . in the beginning of it , he tells us that a belief of the indifferency or rather imposture of all religions ; is made the most effectual , not to say the most fashionable argument for liberty of conscience . for my part , i never read , i never heard of this pretence or argument , to be used to that purpose . it wants no such defence . nay the principle it self , seems to me , to be suited directly to oppose and overthrow it . for if there be no such thing in reality as religion in the world , it is certainly a very foolish thing , to have differences perpetuated amongst men upon the account of conscience , which without a supposition of religion , is nothing but a vain and empty name : but hence our author takes occasion , to discourse of the use of religion and conscience in the government of affairs in the world ; and proves in many words , that conscience unto god , with a regard to future eternal rewards or punishments , is the great ligament of humane society , the security of government , the strongest bond of laws , and only support of rule , without which every man would first and last , be guided by mere self interest , which would reduce all power and authority to meer force and violence . to this purpose doth he discourse at large in one section of this chapter ; and in another , with no less earnestness and elegancy of words , and repetition of various expressions of the same signification , that the use and exercise of conscience , will certainly overthrow all government , and fill the world with confusion . in like manner , whereas we have been hither● throughly instructed , as i thought , tha● men may think what they will in the matters of religion , and be of what perswai●● they please , no man can or ought to control● them therein ; here we are told , that 〈◊〉 power , nor policy , can keep men peaceable , untill some perswasions are rooted out of thei● minds by severity of laws and penalties , pag● . and whereas heretofore , we wer● informed , that men might believe what the● would , princes were concerned only i● their outward practice ; now are we assured , that above all things , it concerns princes to look to the doctrines and articles of men● belief , p. . but these things , as was before intimated , are not of our concern . nor can i find much of that importance● in the third and fourth paragraphs of this declamatory invective . it is evident whom he regards and reflects upon , and with what false , unmanly , unchristian revilings , he indeavours to traduce them . he would have the world believe , that there is a generation of men , whose principles of religion teach them to be proud , peevish , malicious , spightful , envious , turbulent , boysterous , seditious , and what ever is evil in the world ; when others are all for candour , moderation and ingenuity ; amongst whom no doubt he reckons himself for one , and gives in this discourse in evidence thereof . but what are these doctrines and articles of mens belief , which dispose them inevitably to all the villanies that our author could find names for . a catalogue of them he gives us , pag. , . saith he , what if they believe that princes are but the executioners of the decrces of the presbitery ; and that in case of disobedience to their spiritual governours , they may be excommunicated , and by consequence deposed ? what if they believe that dominion is founded in grace , and therefore all wicked kings forfeit their crowns , and that it is in the power of the people of god to bestow them where they please ? and what if others believe that to pursue their successes in villany and rebellion is to follow providence ? all the world knows what it is , that hath given him the advantage of providing a covering , for these monstrous fictions ; and an account thereof hath been given elsewhere . and what now if those intended do not believe these things , nor any one of them ? what if they do openly disavow every one of them , as for ought i ever heard or know they do , and as i do my self ? what if some of them , are ridiculously framed into articles of faith , from the supposed practices of some individual persons ? and what if men be of never so vile● opinions about the pursuit of their successes , so they have none to countenance them i● any unlawful enterprises , which i think must go before successes ? what if only the papists be concerned in these articles of faith ; and they only in one of them about the excommunication and deposition of princes , and that only some of them ; and not one of those have any concern in them , whom he intends to reproach ? i say if these things are so , we need look no farther for the principles of that religion , which hath furnished him with all this candor , moderation and ingenuity , and hath wrought him to such a quiet and peaceable temper , by teaching him that humility , charity and meekness , which here bewray themselves let it be granted , as it must and ought to be , that all principles of the minds of men , pretended to be from apprehensions of religion , that are in themselves inconsistent with any lawful government , in any place what ever , ought to be coerced , and restrained . for our lord jesus christ , sending his gospel to be preached and published in all nations and kingdoms of the world , then , and at all times , under various sorts of governments , all for the same end of publick tranquility and prosperity , did propose nothing in it , but what a submission and obedience unto , might be consistent with the government it self , of what sort soever it were . he came , as they used to sing of old , to give men an heavenly kingdom , and not to deprive them , or take from them their earthly temporal dominions . there is therefore nothing more certain , than that there is no principle of the religion taught by jesus christ , which either in it self , or in the practice of it , is inconsistent with any righteous government on the earth . and if any opinions can truly and really be manifested so to be , i will be no advocate for them , nor their abettors . but such as these , our author shall never be able justly to affix on them whom he opposeth ; nor the least umbrage of them ; if he do but allow the gospel , and the power of christ to institute those spiritual ordinances , and requiring their administration , which do not , which cannot extend unto any thing wherein a magistrate as such , hath the least concernment in point of prejudice . for if on a false , or undue practice of them , any thing should be done , that is not purely spiritual , or that being done , should be esteemed to operate upon any of outward concerns , relations , interest● occasions of men , they may be restrain by the power of him who presides o● publick good . but besides these pretences , our a●thor i know not how , chargeth also the ●●mours , inclinations and passions of some me● as inconsistent with government , and a●wayes disposing men to phanaticisme and ●●dition ; and on occasion thereof falls out to an excess of intemperance in reproa●●ing them whom he opposet● , such as 〈◊〉 have not above once or twice before 〈◊〉 with the like . and in particular he ra● about that zeal , as he calls it , for the g●●ry of god , which hath turned whole natio● into shambles , filled the world with bute●ries and massacres , and fleshed it self wi●● slaughters of miriads of mankind . no● omitting all other controversies , i sha●● undertake to maintain this against any m●● in the world , that the effects here so tr●gically expressed , have been produced 〈◊〉 the leal our author pleads for , in co●pelling all unto the same sentiments and pr●●ctices in religion , incomparably abo● what hath ensued upon any other pretenc● in or about religion , what ever . this neel require , i shall evince with such in●stances , from the entring of christianity into the world to this very day , as will admit of no competition with all those together , which on any account or pretence have produced the like effects . this it was , and is , that hath soaked the earth with blood , depopulated nations , ruined families , countrys , kingdoms , and at length made innumerable christians rejoyce in the yoke of turkish tyranny , to free themselves from their perpetual persecutions , on the account of their dissent from the worship publickly established in the places of their nativity . and as for the humours , inclinations , and passions of men , when our author will give such rules and directions , as whereby the magistrate may know how to make a true and legal judgement , of who are fit on their account , to live in his territories , and who are not , i suppose there will not be any contest about them ; until then , we may leave them as here displayed and set up by our author , for every one to cast a cudgel at them , that hath a mind thereunto . for to what purpose is it to consider the frequent occasions he takes , to diseourse about the ill tempers and humours of men , or of enveighing against them for being morose , and ungentile , unsociable , peevish , censorious , with many other terms of reproach , that do not at present occur to my memory , nor are doubtless worth the searching after . suppose he hath the advantage of a better natural temper , have more sedate affections , a more complyant humour , be more remote from giving or receiving provocations , and have learned the wayes of courtly deportment , only was pleased to vail them all and every one , in the writing of this discourse ; is it meet that they should be persecuted and destroyed , be esteemed seditious and i know not what , because they are of a natural temper not so disposed to affability and sweetness of conversation as some others are ? for my part , i dislike the humour and temper of mind characterised by our author , it may be as much as he ; i am sure , i think , as much as i ought . but to make it a matter of such huge importance , as solemnly to introduce it into a discourse about religion , and publick tranquility , will not it may be , on second thoughts , be esteemed over considerately done . and it is not unlikely , but that our author seems of as untoward a composition , and peevish an humour to them whom he reflects upon , as they do to him , and that they satisfie themselves as much in their disposition and deportment , as he doth himself in his . nimirum idem omnes fallimur , neque est quisquam quem non in aliqua re , videre suffenum possis — sect. . pag. , . he inveighs against the events that attend the permission of different sects of religion in a common-wealth . and it is not denyed , but that some inconveniencies may ensue thereon . but as himself hath well observed in another place , we do not in these things enquire what is absolutely best , and what hath no inconvenience attending it ; but what is the best which in our present condition we can attain unto ; and what in that state answers the duty that god requireth of us . questionless , it were best that we should be all of one mind in these things of god ; and it is no doubt also our duty on all hands to endeavour so to be . but seeing de facto , this is not so , nor is it in the power of men , when and how they wil to depose those perswasions of their minds , and dictates of their consciences , from whence it is not so , on the one part or the other ; ( although in some parts of our differences , some may do so and will not , namely in things acknowledged to be of no necessity antecedent to their imposition ; and some would do so and cannot , ) it is now enquired , what is the best way to be steer'd in , for the accomplishment of the desired end of peace and tranquility for the future ; and maintaining love , quietness and mutual usefulness at present amongst men . two ways are proposed to this purpose ; the one is to exercise mutual forbearance to each other , whilst we are inevitably under the power of different perswasions in these things , producing no practices that are either injurious unto private men in their rights , or hurtful unto the state , as to publick peace ; endeavouring in the mean time , by the evidence of truth , and a conversation suited unto it , to win upon each other to a consent and agreement in the things wherein we differ . the other is , by severe laws , penalties , outward force , as imprisonments , mulcts , fines , banishments , or capital punishments , to compell all men out of hand , to an uniformity of practice , whatever their judgements be to the contrary . now as the state of things is amongst us , which of these wayes is most suitable to the law of our being and creation , the best principles of the nature of man , and those which have the most evident resemblance of divine perfections , the gospel , the spirit and letter of it , with the mind of its author our lord jesus christ , which is most conducing to attain the end aimed at , in wayes of a natural and genuine complyance with the things themselves of religion , conscience , and divine worship , is left unto the judgement of god , and all good men . in the mean time , if men will make declamations upon their own surmises , jealousies , and suspitions of things which are either so indeed , that is really surmized , or pretended to be so for some private interests or advantages of their own , which no man can answer or remove ; if they may fancy at their pleasure ghosts , goblins , fiends , walking sprights , seditions , drums , trumpets , armies , bears , and tigers ; every difference in religion , be it never so small , be the agreement amongst them that differ , never so great , be it the visible , known , open interest of them that dissent from what is established , to live quietly and peaceably , and to promote the good of the commonwealth wherein they live ; do they profess that it is their duty , their principle , their faith , and doctrine , to obey constantly their rulers and governours in all things , not contrary to the mind of god , and pretend no such commands of his , as should interfere in the least with their power in order to publick tranquility ; do they offer all the security of their adherence to such declared principles , as mankind is necessitated to be contented and satisfied with , in things of their highest concernment ; do they avow an especial sense of the obligation that is put upon them by their rulers , when they are protected in peace ; have they no concernment in any such political societies , combinations , interests , as might alone give countenance unto any such disturbance ; all is one , every different opinion is press-money , and every sect is an army , although they be all and every one of them protestants , of whom alone we do discourse . other answer therefore i shall not return unto this part of our authors arguing , than what he gave of old . ne admittam culpam , ego meo sum promus pectori . suspicio est in pectore alieno sita . nam nunc ego te si surripuisse suspicer , jovi coronam de capite e capitolio , quod in culmine astat summo , st non id feceris ; atque id tamen mihi lubeat suspicarier ; qui tu id prohibere me potes , ne suspicer . only , i may add , that sundry of the instances our author makes use of , are false , and unduly alledged . for what is here charged on differences in and about religion , in reference unto publick tranquility , might have been , yea and was charged on christian religion for three hundred years , and is so by many still on protestancy as such ; and that it were a very easie and facile task , to set out the pernicious evills of a compelled agreement in the practice of religion , and those not fancied only or feigned , but such as do follow it , have followed it , and will follow it in the world . an enquiry in this invective , tending to evince its reasonableness is offered , in pag. . namely , where there are divided interests in religion in the same kingdom , it is asked how shall the prince behave himself towards them . the answer thereunto is not i confess easie , because it is not easie to be understood , what is intended by divided interests in religion . we will therefore lay that aside , and consider what really is amongst us , or may be according to what we understand by these expressions . suppose then , that in the same profession of protestant religion , some different way and observances in the outward worship of god should be allowed , and the persons concerned herein have no other , cannot be proved to have any other interest with respect unto religion , but to fear god and honour the king ; it is a very easie thing to return an answer to this enquiry . for not entring into the profound political speculation of our author , about ballancing of parties , or siding with this or that party , where the differences themselves constitute no distinct parties , in reference to civil government and publick tranquility ; let the prince openly avow by the declaration of his judgement , his constant practice , his establishing of legal rights , disposing of publick favours in places and preferments , that way of religion which himself owns and approves ; and let him indulge and protect others of the same religion , for the substance of it with what himself professeth , in the quiet and peaceable exercise of their consciences in the worship of god , keeping all dissenters within the bounds allotted to them , that none transgress them to the invasion of the rights of others ; and he may have both the reality , and glory of religion , righteousness , justice , and all other royal vertues which will render him like to him whose vice-gerent he is ; and will undoubtedly reap the blessed fruits of them , in the industry , peaceableness , and loyalty of all his subjects whatever . there are sundry things in the close of this chapter objected against such a course of proceedure ; but those such , as are all of them resolved into a supposition , that they who in any place or part of the world , desire liberty of conscience for the worship of god , have indeed no conscience at all . for it is thereon supposed without further evidence , that they will thence fall into all wicked and unconscientious practices . i shall make , as i said , no reply to such surmises . christianity suffered under them for many ages . protestancy hath done so in sundry places for many years . and those who now may do so , must as they did , bear the effects of them as well as they are able . only i shall say , first , whatever is of real inconvenience in this pretension , on the supposition of liberty of conscience , is no way removed by taking away all different practices , unless ye could also obliterate all different perswasions out of the minds of men ; which although in one place , tells us ought to be done by severe pe●ties , yet in another , he acknowledgeth th● the magistrate hath no cognizance of 〈◊〉 such things ; who yet alone is the inflicts● of all penalties . nay where different a● prehensions are , the absolute prohibition of different answerable practices , doth thousand times more dispose the minds 〈◊〉 men to unquietness , than where they 〈◊〉 allowed both together , as hath been before declared . and he that can oblitera● out of , and take away all different apprehensions and perswasions about the worship of god , from the minds and consciences of men , bringing them to center 〈◊〉 the same thoughts and judgements absolutely , in all particulars about them , dicendum est — deus ille fuit , deus incly● mem●●● qui princeps vitae rationem invenit eam ; — he is god and not man. secondly , it is granted , that the magistrate may , and ought to restrain all principles and outward practices , that have any natural tendency unto the disturbance of the peace ; which being granted , and all obligations upon dissenting parties being alone put upon them , by the supream legislative and executive power of the kingdoms and nations of the world , publick tranquility is , and will be as well secured on that respect , as such things are capable of security in this world . all the longsome discourse therefore which here ensues , wherein all the evils that have been in this nation , are charged on liberty of conscie●ce , from whence not one of them did proceed , seeing there was no such thing granted , until upon other civil and political accounts , the flood-gates were set open unto the following calamities and confusions , is of no use , nor unto any purpose at all . for until it can be demonstratively proved , that those who do actually suffer , and are freely willing so to do , ( as far as the foregoing , otherwise lawful advantages , open unto them as well as others , may be so called ) and resolved to undergo what may farther to their detriment , yea to their ruine be inflicted on them , to preserve their consciences entire unto some commands of god , have no respect unto others of as great evidence and light to be his , ( as are those which concern their obedience unto magistrates , compared with those which they avow about the worship of god ; ) and that private men , uninterested in , 〈◊〉 uncapable of any pretence unto publi● authority of any sort , do alwayes this themselves warranted to do such things●● others have done , pleading right and authority for their warranty ; and 〈◊〉 be made manifest also , that they have 〈◊〉 other or greater interest , than to enjoy the particular conditions and estates in peace and to exercise themselves in the worship of god according as they apprehend 〈◊〉 mind to be , these declamations are altogether vain , and as to any solid wor● lighter than a feather . and i could desire that if these controversies must be farther debated , that 〈◊〉 author would omit the pursuit of the things , which are really 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and according to the antient custom ●●tend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without rhetori●● prefaces , or unreasonable passions , unto the merit of the cause . to this purpose , 〈◊〉 suppose it might not be amiss for him , consider a few sheets of paper lately published , under the title of a case stated , & wherein he will find the main controversy reduced to its proper heads , and a mode provocation unto an answer to what proposed about it . — illum aspice contra qui vocat . a survey of the sixth chapter . the sixth chapter in this discourse , which is the last that at the present i shall call to any account , ( as being now utterly wearied with the frequent occurrence of the same things in various dresses ; ) is designed to the confutation of a principle , which is termed the foundation of all puritanism , and that wherein the mysterie of it consisteth . now this is , that nothing ought to be established in the worship of god , but what is authorised by some precept or example in the word of god , which is the compleat and adequate rule of worship . be it so , that this principle is by some allowed , yea contended for . it will not be easie to affix a guilt upon them , on the account of its being so ; for , lay aside prejudics , corrupt interests , and passions , and i am perswaded that at the first view , it will not seem to be forraign , unto what is in an hundred places declared and taught in the scripture . and certainly a man must be master of extraordinary projections , who can foresee 〈◊〉 the evil , confusion and desolation in the world , which our author hath found out , as inevitable consequents of its admi● tance . it hath , i confess , been former disputed with colourable arguments , pr● tences and instances , on the one side and the other ; and variously stated among●● learn'd men , by , and on various distinction● and with diverse limitations . but the manner of our author is , that whatever is contrary to his apprehensions , must present●● overthrow all government , and bring in 〈◊〉 confusion into the world. such huge weight hath he wonted himself to lay o● the smallest different conceptions of the minds of men , where his own are not 〈◊〉 throned . particularly it is contended that there can be no peace in any churche● or states , whilest this principle is admitted : when it is easily demonstrable , tha● without the admittance of it , as to its substance and principal end , all peace and agreement among churches are utterly impossible . the like also may be said of states , which indeed are not at all concerned in it , any farther , than as it is a principal means of their peace and security , where it is embraced ; and that which would reduce rulers to a stability of mind in these things , after they have been tossed up and down with the various suggestions of men , striving every one to exalt their own imaginations . but seeing it is pretended and granted to be of so much importance , i shall , without much regard to the exclamations of this author , and the reproachful contemptuous expressions , which without stint or measure he poures out upon the assertors of it , consider both what is the concern of his present adversaries in it , and what is to be thought of the principle it self ; so submiting the whole to the judgement of the candid reader . only i must add one thing to the position , without which it is not maintained by any of those , with whom he hath to do ; which may deliver him from combating the air in his next assault of it ; and this is , that nothing ought to be established in the worship of god , as a part of that worship , or made constantly necessary in its observance , without the warranty before-mentioned ; for this is expresly contended for by them , who maintain it ; and who reject nothing upon the authority of it , but what they can prove to be a pretended part of religious worship as such . and , as thus laid down , i shall give some further account both of the principle it self , and of the interest of the non-conformists in it ; because both it and they are together here reproached . what then i say is the true sense and importance of that which our author design● to oppose , according to the mind of them who assert it ; how impotent his attempts against it are for its removal , shall briefly ▪ be declared . in the mean time i cannot but , in the first place , tell him , that if by any means this principle truly stated , as to the expression wherein it is before laid down , and the formal terms whereof it consisteth , should be shaken , or rendred dubious , yet that the way will not be much the plainer , or clearer , for the introduction of his pretensions . there are yet other general maxims , which non-conformists adhere unto , and suppose not justly questionable , which they can firmly stand and build upon in the management of their plea , as to all differences between him and them . and because , it may be , he is unacquainted with them , i shall reckon over some of them for his information . and they are these that follow . . that whatever the scripture hath indeed prescribed , and appointed to be done , and observed in the worship or god , and the government of the church , that is indeed to be done and observed . this , they suppose , will not be opposed : at least they do not yet know , notwithstanding any thing spoken or disputed in this discourse , any pretences , on which it may honestly so be . it is also , as i think , secured , matth. . . . that nothing in conjunction with , nothing as an addition or supplement unto what is so appointed , ought to be admitted , if it be contrary either to the general rules , or particular preceptive instructions of the scripture . and this also , i suppose , will be granted : and if it be not freely , some are ready by arguments to extort the confession of it from them that shall deny it . . that nothing ought to be joyned with , or added unto , what in the scripture is prescribed and appointed in these things , without some cogent reason , making such conjunction : or addition necessary . of what necessity may accrue unto the observation of such things , by their prescription , we do not now dispute : but at present only desire to see the necessity of : their prescription . and this can be nothing , but some defect in substance or circumstance , matter or manner , kind or form , in the institutions mentioned in the scripture , as to their proper ends . now whe● this is discovered , i will not , for my par● much dispute by whom the supplement to be made . in the mean time i do judg● it reasonable , that there be some previou● reasons assigned unto any additional prescriptions in the worship of god unto what is revealed in the scripture , rendring the matter of those prescriptions antecedently necessary and reasonable . . that if any thing or things in this kind , shall be found necessary , to be added and prescribed , then that and those alone be so , which are most consonant unto the general rules of the scripture , given as for our guidance in the worship of god , and the nature of those institutions themselves , wherewith they are conjoyned , or whereunto they are added . and this also i suppose to be a reasonable request , and such as will be granted by all men , who dare not advance their own wills and wisdom above or against the will and wisdom of god. . now if , as was said , the general principle before-mentioned , should by any means be duly removed , or could be so ; if intangled or rendred dubious ; yet as far as i can learn , the non-conformists will be very far from supposing the matters in contest between them and their adversaries , to be concluded . but as they look upon their concernments to be absolutely secured in the principles now mentioned , all which they know to be true , and hope to be unquestionable : so the truth is , there is by this author very small occasion administred unto any thoughts of quitting the former more general thesis as rightly stated ; but rather , if his ability be a competent measure of the merit of his cause , there is a strong confirmation given unto it in the minds of considering men , from the impotency and succeslesness of the attempt made upon it . and that this may appear to the indifferent readers satisfaction , i shall so far divert in this place from the pursuit of my first design , as to state the principle aright , and briefly to call the present opposition of it , unto a new account . the summ in general , of what this author opposeth with so much clamour is , that divine revelation is the sole rule of divine religious worship ; an assertion , that in its latitude of expression , hath been acknowledged in , and by , all nations and people . the very heathen admitted it of old , as shall be manifested , if need require , by instances sufficient . for though they framed many gods in their foolish darkened imaginations , yet they thought , that every one of them would be worshipped according to his own mind , direction and prescription . so did , and , think do , christians generally believe : only some have a mind to pare this generally avowed principle , to curb it , and order it so by distinctions and restrictions , that it may serve their turn , and consist with their interest . for an opposition unto it nakedly , directly and expresly , few have had the confidence yet to make . and the non-conformists need not go one step farther , in the expression of their judgements and principles in this matter . for who shall compell them to take their adversaries distinctions , ( which have been invented and used by the most learned of them ) of , substantial and accidental ; proper and reductive ; primitive and accessary ; direct and consequential ; intrinsick and circumstantial worship , and the like , for the most part unintelligible terms in their application , into the state of the question ? if men have a mind , let them oppose this thesis as laid down , if not , let them let it alone : and they , who shall undertake the confirmation of it , will , no doubt , carry it through the briets of those unscriptural distinctions . and that this author may be the better instructed in his future work , i shall give him a little farther account of the terms of the assertion laid down . revelation is either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and containeth every discovery or declaration , that god hath made of himself , or of his mind and will , unto men . thus it is comprehensive of that concreated light , which is in all men , concerning him and his will. for although we say , that this is natural ; and is commonly contra-distinguished to revelation properly so called , which for perspicuity sake we call revelation supernatural ; yet whereas it doth not so necessarily accompany humane nature , but that it may be separated from it ; not is it educed out of our natural faculties by their own native or primigenial vertue ; but is , or was distinctly implanted in them by god himself ; i place it under the general head of revelation . hence whatever is certainly from god , by the light of nature and instinct thereof declared so to be , is no less a certain rule of worship and obedience , so far forth as it is from h●m , and concerneth those things , than any thing that comes from him by express vocal revelation . and this casts out of consideration a vain exception , wherewith some men please themselves ; as though the men of this opinion , denyed the admittance of what is from god , and by the light of nature discovered to be his mind and will. let them once prove any thing in contest between them and their adversaries to be required , prescribed , exacted or made necessary by the light of nature , as the will of god revealed therein , and i will assure them , that as to my concern , there shall be an end of all difference about it . but yet th●● i may adde a little farther light into the sense of the non-conformists in this matter ; i say , . that this inbred light of reason guides unto nothing at all in or about the worship of god , but what is more fully , clearly and directly taught and declared in the scripture . and this may easily be evinced , as from the untoward mixture of darkness and corruption , that is befallen our primigenial i●bred principles of light and wisdom , by the entrance of sin ; so also from the end of the scripture it self ; which was to restore that knowledge of god and his mind , which was lost by sin ; and which might be as useful to man in his lapsed condition , as the other was in his pure and uncorrupted estate . at present therefore , i shall leave this assertion , in expectation of some instance , in matters great or small , to the contrary , before i suppose it be obnoxious to question or dispute . . as there can be no opposition , nor contradiction , between the light of nature , and inspired vocal or scriptural revelation , because they are both from god : so if in any instance , there should appear any such thing unto us , neither faith nor reason can rest in that which is pretended to be natural light , but must betake themselves for their resolution unto express revelation . and the reason hereof is evident ; because nothing is natural light , but what is common to all men ; and where it is denyed , it is frustrated as to its ruling efficacy . again , it is mixed , as we said before ; and it is not every mans work to separate the chaffe from the wheat ; or what god hath implanted in the mind of man when he made him upright , and what is since soaked into the principles of his nature , from his own inventions . but this case may possibly very rarely fall out , and so shall not much be insisted on . . our enquiry in our present contest , is solely about instituted worship , which we believe to depend on supernatural revelation ; the light of nature can no way relieve or guide us in it or about it , because it refers universally to things above , and beyond that light : but only with reference unto those moral , natural circumstances , which appertain unto those actings or actions of men , whereby it is performed ; which we willingly submit unto its guidance and direction . again , vocal revelation hath come under two considerations : first , as it was occasional . secondly , as it became stated . first , as it was occasional . for a long time god was pleased to guide his church in many concerns of his worship , by fresh occasional revelations ; even from the giving of the first promise unto adam , unto the solemn giving of the law by moses . for although men had in process of time many stated revelations , that were preserved by tradition among them ; as the first promise ; the institution of sacrifices , and the like : yet as to sundry emergencies of his worship , and parts of it , god guided them by new occasional revelations . now those revelations being not recorded in the scripture , as being only for present or emergent use ; we have no way to know them , but by what those , to whom god was pleased so to reveal himself , did practise ; and which , on good testimony found acceptance with him . whatever they so did , they had especial warranty from god for ; which is the case of the great institution of sacrifices it self . it is a sufficient argument that they were divinely instituted , because they were graciously accepted . secondly , vocal revelation as the rule of worship , became stated and invariable , in and by the giving and writing of the law. from thence , with the allowances before mentioned , we confine it to the scripture , and so unto all succeeding generations . i confess many of our company , who kept to us hitherto in granting divine revelation to be the sole principle and rule of religious worship , now leave us , and betake themselves to paths of their own . the postmisnicall jews , after many attempts made that way by their predecessors , both before and after the conversation of our lord christ in the flesh , at length took up a resolution , that all obligatory divine revelation was not contained in the scripture ; but was partly preserved by orall tradition . for although they added a multitude of observances , unto what were prescribed unto their fathers by moses : yet they would never plainly forego that principle , nor do to this day ; that divine revelation is the rule of divine worship . wherefore to secure their principle and practice , and to reconcile them together , ( which are indeed at an unspeakable variance ) they have fancied their oral law ; which they assert to be of no less certain and divine original , than the law that is written . on this pretence they plead , that they keep themselves unto the fore-mentioned principle , under the superstition of a multitude of self-invented observances . the papists also here leave us ; but still with a semblance of adhering to that principle , which carryes so great and uncontrollable an evidence with it , as that there are very few as was said , who have hitherto risen up in a direct and open opposition unto it . for whereas they have advanced a double principle for the rule of religious worship , besides the scripture ; namely tradition , and the present determinations of their church , from thence educed ; they assert the first to be divine or apostolical , which is all one ; and the latter to be accompanyed with infallibility , which is the formal reason of our adherence and submission unto divine revelations . so that they still adhere in general unto the fore-mentioned principle ; however they have debauched it by their advancement of those other guides . but herein also , we must do them right ; that they do not absolutely turn loose those two rude creatures of their own ; traditions , and present church determinations , upon the whole face of religion , to act therein at their pleasure ; but they secure them from whatever is determined in the written word ; affirming them to take place only in those things , that are not contrary to the word , or not condemned in it . for in such , they con●ess , they ought not , nor can take place . which i doubt whether our author will allow of or no , in reference to the power by him asserted . by religious worship , in the thesis above , we understand , as was said before , instituted worship only , and not that which is purely moral and natural ; which , in many instances of it , hath a great coincidence with the light of nature , as was before discoursed . we understand also the solemn or stated worship of the church of god. that worship , i say , which is solemn and stated , for the church , the whole church , at all times and seasons , according to the rules of his appointment , is that which we enquire after . hence in this matter , we have no concernment in the fact of this or that particular person , which might be ●●casionally influenced by necessity ; as vids eating of the shewbread was ; 〈◊〉 which , how far it may excuse or just 〈◊〉 the persons that act thereon , or regu●● their actions , directly , i know not , nor any way engaged to enquire . this is the state of our question in ha●● the mind of the assertion , which is h●● so hideously disguised , and represent in its pretended consequences . neit●●● do i think there is any thing needful f●●ther to be added unto it . but yet for 〈◊〉 clearing of it from mistakes , somethi●● may be discoursed which relates unto we say then ; first , that there are sundry things be used in , about , and with those actio● whereby the worship of god is perfor●●ed , which yet are not sacred , nor do 〈◊〉 long unto the worship of god as su●● though that worship cannot be perform without them . the very breath that 〈◊〉 breathe , and the light whereby they s● are necessary to them in the worship●● god ; and yet are not made sacred● religious thereby . constantine said of o● that he was a bishop , but without the churc● not a sacred officer , but one that too● care , and had a supervisorship of thir● ●ecessarily belonging to the performance of gods worship , yet no parts or adjuncts 〈◊〉 it as such . for it was all still without . now all those things in or about the worship of god , that belonged unto constantines episcopacy , that is the ordering and disposal of things without the church , but about it ; without worship , but about it ; we acknowledge to be left unto common prudence , guided by the general rules of scripture , by which the church is to walk and compose its actings . and this wholly supersedes the discourse of our author concerning the great variety of circumstances , wherewith all humane actions are attended . for in one word , all such circumstances as necessarily ▪ attend humane actions as such , neither are sacred , nor can be made so without an express institution of god , and are , disposable by humane authority . so that the long contest of our author on that head , is altogether vain . so then , secondly , by all the concernments of religious worship , which any affirm , that they must be directed by divine revelation , or regulated by the scripture ; they intend all that is religious , or whatever belongs to the worship of god , as it is divine worship : and not what belongs unto the actions , wherein and when by it is performed , as they are actions . thirdly , that when any part of worship is instituted in special , and general rule are given for the practice of it hic ● nunc : there the warranty is sufficient fo● its practice at its due seasons ; and for those seasons the nature of the thing it self , with what it hath respect unto , and the ligh● of the general scripture rules , will give them an acceptable determination . and these few observations will abundantly manifest , the impertinency of those who think it incumbent on any , by vertue of the principle before laid down , to produce express warranty in words of scripture , for every circumstance that doth attend and belong unto the actions , whereby the worship of god is performed : which as they require not ; so no such thing is included in the principle as duly stated . for particular circumstances , that have respect to good order , decency , and external regulation of divine worship , they are all of them either circumstances of the actions themselves , whereby divine worship is performed and exercised ▪ and so in general they are natural and necessary ; which in particular , or actu exercito , depend on moral prudence ; or religious rites themselves , added in and to the whole , or any parts of divine service , which alone in this question come under enquiry . i know there are usually sundry exceptions put into this thesis , as before stated and asserted : and instances to the contrary are pretended ; some whereof are touched upon by our author , pag. . which are not now particularly , and at large to be considered . but yet because i am , beyond expectation , engaged in the explication of this principle , i shall set it so far forth right and straight unto further examination , as to give in such general observations , as , being consistent with it , and explanatory of it , will serve to obviate the most of the exceptions that are laid against it . as , . where ever in the scripture we meet with any religious duty , that had a preceding institution , although we find not expresly a consequent approbation , we take it for granted that it was approved ; and so on the contrary , where an approbation appears , and institution is concealed . . the question being only about religious duties , or things pertaining to , or required in or about the worship of god ; no exception against the general thesis ca●● take place , but such as consists in thing● directly of that nature . instances in and about things civil , and belonging meerly to humane conversation , or things natural , as signs and memorials one of another are in this matter of no consideration . . things extraordinary in their performance , and which , for ought we know may have been so in their warranty 〈◊〉 rule , have no place in our debate . fo● we are inquiring only after such things as may warrant a suitable practice in us● without any further authority , which is the end , for which instances against this principle are produced ; this actions extr●ordinary will not do . . singular and occasional actions which may be variously influenced and regulated by present circumstances , are n● rule to guide the ordinary stated worship of the church . davids eating of th● shew-bread , wherein yet he was justifie● because of his hunger and necessity , was not to be drawn into example of giving the shew-bread promiscuously to the people . and sundry instances to the same purpose are given by our saviour himself . . there is nothing of any dangerous or had consequence in this whole controversie , but what lyes in the imposition on mens practices of the observation of uncommanded rites , making them necessary unto them in their observation . the things themselves are said in their own nature , antecedent to their injunction for practice , to be indifferent , and indifferent as unto practice . what hurt would it be to leave them so ? they cannot , say some , be omitted for such and such reasons . are there then reasons : for their observation besides their injuction , and such as on the account whereof they are injoyned ? then are they indeed necessary in some degree before their injunction . for all reason for them must be taken from themselves . and things wholly indifferent have nothing in themselves one more than another , why one should be taken , and another left . for if one have the advantage of another in the reasons for its practice , it is no more indifferent : at least it is not comparatively so . granting therefore , things injoyned to be antecedently to their injunction , equally indifferent in their own nature , with all other things of the same or the like kind , which yet are rejected or not injoyned ; and then to give reasons taken from themselves , their decency , their conducingness to edification , their tendency to the increase of devotion , their significancy of this or that ; is to speak daggers and contradictions ; and to say , a thing is indifferent before the injuction of its practice ; but yet if we had thought so , we would never have enjoyned it ; seeing we do so upon reasons . and without doubt this making necessary the practice of things in the worship of god , proclaimed to be indifferent in themselves , and no way called for by any antecedent reason , is an act of power . . where things are instituted of god , and he himself makes an alteration in , or of his own institutions , those institutions may be lawfully practised and observed , untill the mind of god for their alteration and abolition be sufficiently revealed , proposed , and con●irmed unto them that are concerned in them . for as the making of a law doth not oblige , untill , and without the promulgation of it , so as that any should offend in not yielding obedience unto it ; so upon the abrogation of a law , obedience may be conscienciously and without sin yielded unto that law , untill the abrogation , by what act soever it was made , be notified and confirmed . an instance hereof we have in the observation of mosaical rites , in the forbearance of god , after the law of their institution was enervated , and the obligation of it unto obedience really dissolved ; at least the foundation of it laid ; for the actual dissolution of it depended on the declaration of the fact , wherein it was founded . . there may be a coincidence of things performed by sundry persons , at the same time and in the same place ; whereof some may have respect unto religious worishp directly , and so belong unto it ; and others only occasionally , and so not at all belong thereunto . as if when the athenians had been worshipping of their altars , st. paul had come , and reading the inscription of one of them , and thence taking occasion and advantage to preach the unknown god unto them ; their act was a part of religious veneration , his presence and observation of them , and laying hold of that occasion for his own purpose , was not so . . many things , which are meer natural circumstances , requisite unto the performance of all actions in communities whatever , and so to be ordered by prudence according unto general rules of the word of god , may seem to be adjuncts of worship , unless they are followed to their original , which will discover them to be of another nature . . civil usages and customes observed 〈◊〉 a religious manner , as they are all to be by them that believe , and directed by them unto moral ends , may have a shew and appearance of religious worship ; and so , according to the principle before stated , require express institution . but although they belong unto our living unto god is general ; as do all things that we do , seeing whether we eat or drink , we are to do a● to the glory of god ; and therefore are to be done in faith ; yet they are or may be no part of instituted worship , but such actions of life as in our whole course , we are to regulate by the rules of the scripture , so farr as they afford us guidance therein . . many observances in and about the worship of god , are recorded in the scripture , without especial reflecting any blame or crime on them , by whom they were performed ; ( as many great sins are historically only related , and left to be judged by the rule of the world in other places , without the least remark of displeasure on the persons guilty of them , ) and that by such whose persons were accepted of god ; yea it may be in that very service , wherein less or more they failed in their observation , god being merciful to them though not in all things prepared according to the prepartion of the sanctuary ; and yet the things themselves not to be approved nor justified , but condemned of god. such was the fact of judas maccabeus in his offering sacrifices for the sin of them that were dead ; adn that of instituting an aniversary feast in commemoration of the dedication of the altar . this little search have i made into this great mystery , as it is called , of puritanism , after which so mighty an outcry is raised by this author ; and if it might be here further pursued , it would as stated by us in these general rules and explications , be fully manifested to be a principle in general admitted , untill of late , by all sorts of men : some few only having been forced sometimes to corrupt it for the security of some especial interest of their own . and it were an easie thing to confirm this assertion by the testimonies of the most learned protestant writers , that have served the church in the last ages . but i know how with many amongst us they are regarded ; and that the citation of some of the most reverend names among them , is not unlikely to prejudice and disadvantage the cause , wherein their witness is produced . i shall not therefore expose them to the contempt of those , now they are dead , who would have been unwilling to have entred the lists with them in any kind of learning , when they were alive . there is , in my apprehension , the substance of this assertion still retained among the papists . bellarmine himself layes it down as the foundtion of all his controversies ; and indeavours to prove , propheticos & apostolicos libros verum esse verbum dei , & certam & stabilem regulam fidei . de verbo dei. lib. . cap. . that the prophetical and apostoiclal books , ●are the true word of god , a certain and stable rule of faith , wil go a great way in this matter . for all our obedience in the worship of god is the obedience of faith : and if the scripture be the rule of faith , our faith is not in any of its concerns , to be extended beyond it ; nor more than the thing regulated is to be beyond the rule . neither is this opinion of so late a date , as our author and others would perswade their ceredulous followers . the full sense of it was spoken out roudly of old . so speaks the great constantine ( that an emperour may lead the way ) in his oration to the renowned fathers assembled at nice . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. the evangelical and apostolical books , and the oracles of the ancient prophets , do plainly instruct us , what we are to think of divine things . laying aside therefore all hostile discord , let us resolve the things brought into question , by the testimonies of the writings given by divine inspiration . we have here the full substance of what is pleaded for ; and might the advice of this noble emperour be admitted , we should have a readier way to expedite all our present differences , than as yet seems to be provided for us . the great basil speaks yet more expresly than constantine the great lib. de confes . fid . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. it hath the manifest guilt of infidelity and pride , to reject any thing that is written , or to add or introduce any thing that is not written ; which is the summ of all that in this matter is contended for . to the same purpose he discourseth epist. . ad eustath : where moreover he rejects all pretences of customs and usages of any sorts of men , and will have all differences to be brought for their determination to the scripture . christstome in his homily on psalm . speaks the same sense , saith he ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . who is it that promiseth these things ? paul. for we are not to say any thing without testimony , nor upon our meer reasonings . for if any thing be spoken without scripture ( testimony ) the mind of the hearers fluctuates , now assenting , anon hesitating , sometimes rejecting what is spoken as frivolous , sometimes receiving it as probable . but where the testimonies of the divine voice comes forth from the scripture , it confirmeth the word of the speaker , and the mind of the hearer . it is even so ; whilest things relating to religion and the worship of god , are debated and disputed by the reasonings of men , or on any other principles besides the express authority of the scriptures , no certainty or full perswasion of mind can be attained about them . men under such actings are as lucian in his menippus , says he was between the disputations of the philosophers ; sometimes he nodded one way , sometimes another , and seemed to give his assent backwards and forwards to express contradiction . it is in the testimony of the scripture alone , about the things of god , that the consciences of those that fear him can acquiesce and find satisfaction . the same author as in many other places , so in his homily on the epist. to the corinth . expresly sends us to the scripture to enquire after all things , as that which is the exact canon , ballance , and rule of religion . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . among the latines tertullian is express to the same purpose . in his book against hermogenes , adoro ( said he ) plenitudinem scripturum quae mihi factorem manifestat & facta — again , scriptum esse hoc doceat hermogenis officina , aut timeat , rae illud , adjicientibus , aut detrahentibus destinatum . i adore the fulness of the scripture ; — and let hermogenes prove what he saith , to be written , or fear the woe denounced against them , who add to , or take from , the word . and again in his book de carne christi ; non recipio quod extra scriptuream de tuo infers . i do not receive , what you bring of your own without scripture . so also in his book , de praescriptionibus . nobis nihil ex nostro arbitrio indulgere licet ; sed nec eligere quod aliquis de arbitrio suo induxerit apostoles domini habemus authores , qui nec ipsi quicquam ex suo arbitrio quod inducerent elegerunt , sed acceptam a christo disciplain ani , deliter nationibus assignaverunt . it is ● lawful for us ( in these things ) to ind●● unto our own choice ; nor to choose what ● one brings in of his choosing . we have apostles of our lord for our examp●● who brought in nothing of their own min● or choice ; but having received the discipl● ( of christian religion ) from chrsit , t●● faithfully communicated it to the nation . ● hierome is plain to the same purpose i● sundry places . so comment . in matt● quod de scripturis authoritatem non habet , ea●dem facilitate contemnitur , qua probatur . th●● which hath not authority from the scripture● is as easily despised as asserted . comm. i● hagg. cap. . sed & alia quae absque autho●●ritate & testimoniis scripturarum , quasi traditione apostolica sponte reperiunt atque confingunt , percutit gladius dei ; but those other things which without authority or testimony of the scriptures , they find out or faign of their own accord , as of apostolical . tradition ; the sword of god smites through . it were easie to produce twenty other testimonies out of the ancient writers of the church , giving sufficient countenance to the assertion contended about . what account our author gives of this principle is now , very briefly , to be considered . first therefore , pag. , . he re●es it as a pretence wild and humoursome , ●ich men must be absurd if they believe ; ● impudent if they do not ; seeing it hath ●t the least shaddow or foundation either ●m scripture or reason : though it be ex●●esly asserted either in its own terms , or ●onfirmed by direct deductions , in and ●om above forty places of scripture . ●nd so much for that part of the as●ault . the next chargeth it with infinite follies ●nd mischiefs in those which allow it . and 't is said , that there can never be an end of alterations and disturbances in the church , whilest it is maintained . the contrary whereof is true , confirmed by experience and evidence of the thing it self . the admittance of it would put an end to all disturbances . for let any man judge , whether , if there be matters in difference , as in all these things there are and ever were ; the bringing them to an issue and a setled stability , be not likelier to be effected by all mean consenting unto one common rule , whereby they may be tryed and examined , than that every party should be left at liberty , to indulge to their own ▪ affections and imaginations about them . and yet we are told , p. . that all the pious villanies , that ever have disturbed the christian world , have sheltered themselves in this grand maxime ; that jesus christ is the only law-maker to his church . i confess , i could heartily desire , that such expressions might be forborn . for let what pretence men please be given to them , and colour put upon them ; they are full of scandal to christian religion . the mixime it self , here traduced , is as true as any part of the gospel . and it cannot be pretended , that it is not the maxime it self , but the abuse of it , ( as all the principles of the gospel , through the blindness and lusts of men , have been abused ; ) that is reflected on : seeing the design of the whole discourse is to evert the maxime it self . now whatever apprehensions our author may have of his own abilities , i am satisfied , that they are no way competent to disprove this principle of the gospel ; as will be evident on the first attempt he shall make to that purpose ; let him begin the tryal as soon as he pleaseth . in the third section , we have an heap of instances raked together to confront the principle , in its proper sense before declared and vindicated , in no one whereof it is at all concerned . for the reason of things , in matters civil and religious , are not the same . all political government in theworld consists in the exercise of principles of natural right , and their just application to times , ages , people , occasions and occurences . whilest this is done , government is acted regularly to its proper end : where this is missed , it failes . there things god hath left unto the prudence of men , and their consent ; wherein they cannot , for the most part , faile , unless they are absolutely given up unto unbridled lusts ; and the things , wherein they may faile , are alwaies convenient or inconvenient ; good and useful , or hurrful and destructive ; not alwaies , yea very seldome directly and in themselves morally good or evil. in such things mens ease and pofit not their consciences , are concerned . in the worship of god things are quite otherwise . it is not convenience or inconvenience , advantage or disadvantage , as to the things of this life , but meerly good or evil , in reference to the pleasing of god , and to ternity , that is in question . particular applications to the manners , customes , usages of places , times , countreys , which is the proper field of humane authority , liberty , and prudence in civil things , ( because their due , useful , and regular administration d●●pends upon them ; ) have here no plac●● for the things of the worship of god b●●ing spiritual , are capable of no variatio● from temporal earthly varieties amon● men ; have no respect to climate● customes , formes of civil governmen● or any thing of that nature . but con●sidering men quite under other notions namely , of sinners and believers ; with respect utterly unto other ends , namely their living spiritually unto god here , and the eternal enjoyment of him hereafter are not subject to such prudential accommodations or applications . the worship of god is or ought to be , the same at all times , in all places , and amongst all people , in all nations ; and the order of it is fixt and determined in all particulars , that belong unto it . and let not men pretend the contrary , untill they can give an instance of any such defect in the institutions of christ , as that the worship of god cannot be carryed on , nor his church ruled and edified , without an addition of something of their own for the supply thereof ; which therefore should and would be necessary to that end antecedent unto its addition ; and when they have so done , i will subscribe unto whatsoever they shall be pleased to add of that , or indeed any other kind . ●ustomes of churches , and rules of decency , which our author here casts under the magistrates power , are ambiguous terms , ●nd in no sense express the hypothesis he ●ath undertaken the defence of . in the proper signification of the words , the ●hings intended may fall under those natural circumstances , wherein religious actions in the worship of the church may have their concern , as they are actions , and are disposable by humane authority . but he will not , i presume , so soon desert his fundamental principle , of the magistrates appointing things in , and parts of religious worship , no where described or determined in the word of god ; which alone we have undertaken to oppose . the instances he also gives us about actions , in their own nature and use indifferent ; as going to law , or taking physick ; are not , in the least , to his purpose . and yet if i should say , that none of these actions are indeed indifferent in actu exercito , as they speak , and in their individual performance , but have a moral good or evil , as an inseparable adjunct , attending them , arising out of respect to some rule , general or particular , of divine revelation , i know he cannot dis●prove it ; and much more is not pleade concerning religious worship . but this principle is further charge with mischief equal to its folly ; which i●●proved by instances in sundry uninstituted observances , both in the jewish , an● primitive christian churches ; as also i● protestant churches abroad . i answer that if this author will consent to um●pire these differences by either the old or new testament , or by any protestant church in the world ; we shall be nearer an end of them , than , as far as i can see , yet otherwise we are . if he will not be bound , neither to the example of the church of the jews ; nor of the churches of the new-testament ; nor of the present protestant churches ; it must he confessed , that their names are here made use of , only for a pretence and an advantage . under the old testament we find , that all that god required of his church , was , that they should observe the law of moses his servant , which he commanded to him in horeb , for all israel , with his statutes and judgements , mal. . . and when god had given out his institutions , and the whole order of his worship , it being fixed in the church accordingly ; it is added eight or ten times ●n one chapter , that this was done , as ●he lord commanded moses , even so did he , exod. . after this god gives them many strict prohibitions , from adding any thing to what he had so commanded ; as deut. . . and chap. . prov. . . and as he had in the decalogue rejected any worship not of his own appointment as such , exod. . , . so he made it afterwards the rule of his acceptation of that people and what they did , or his refusal of them and it ; whether it was by him commanded or no. so in particular , he expresly rejects that which was so added , as to dayes , and times , and places , though of the nearest affinity and cognation to what was appointed by himself , because it was invented by man ; yea by a king , kings . . and when in process of time , many things of an uncertain original were crept into the observance of the church , and had firmed themselves with the notion of traditions ; they were all at once rejected in that word of the blessed holy one ; in ●ain do ye worship me , teaching for doctrines ( that is , what is in my worship to be observed , ) the traditions of men . for the churches of the new testament , the foundation of them is laid i● that command of our saviour , matt . . go and teach all nations ; teac●●ing them to observe and do all whatsoever command you , and so i am with you to th● end of the world . that they should b● taught to do or observe any thing , bu● what he commanded ; that his presenc● should accompany them in the teaching o● observation of any superadditions of their own ; we no where find written , intimated , or exemplified by any practice of theirs . nor , however , in that juncture of time , the like whereunto did never occurt before , nor ever shall do again , during the expiration and taking down of mosaical institutions , before they became absolutely unlawful to be observed , the apostles , according to the liberty given them by our lord jesus christ , and direction of the holy ghost , did practise some things complyant with both church-states , did they , in any one instance , impose any thing on the practice of the churches in the worship of god , to be necessarily and for a continuance observed among them , but what they had express warrant , and authority and command of our lord christ for . counsel they gave in particular cases , that depended upon present emergencies ; directions for the regular and due observation of institutions , and the application of general rules in particular practice ; they also taught a due and sanctified use of civil customes ; and the proper use of moral or natural symbols . but to impose any religious rites on the constant practice of the church in the worship of god , making them necessary to be alwaies observed by that imposition , they did not once attempt to do , or assume power for it to themselves . yea , when upon an important difficulty , and to prevent a ruining scandal , they were enforced to declare their judgement to the churches in some points , wherein they were to abridge the practice of their christian liberty for a season ; they would do it only in things made necessary by the state of things then among the churches , ( in reference to the great end of edification , whereby all practices are to be regulated ) before the declaration of their judgement , for the restriction mentioned , acts . so remote were they from assuming unto themselves a dominion over the religion , consciences or faith of the disciples of christ ; or requiring any thing in the constant worship of the church , but what was according to the will , appointment and command of their lord and master , little countenance therefore is our author like to obtain unto his sentiments , from the scriptures of the old and new testament ; or the example either of the jews or christians mentioned in them . the instances he gives from the church of the jewes , or that may be given , are either civil observances , as the feast of purim ; or moral conveniencies directed by general rules , as the building of synagogues ; or customary signes suited to the nature of things , as wearing of sackcloth ; or such as have no proof of their being approved , as the feast of dedication , and some monethly fasts taken up in the captivity , from none of which any objection can be taken against the position before laid down . those from the church of the new testament had either a perpetual binding institution from the authority of christ , as the lords day sabbath ; or contain only a direction to use civil customes and observances in an holy and sanctified manner , as the love feasts and kiss of charity ; or such as were never heard of in the new testament at all , as the observation of lent and easter . he that out of these instances can draw a warranty for the power of the civil magistrate over religion and the consciences of men , to institnte new duties in religion when he pleaseth , so these do not countenance vice , nor disgrace the deity ; which all his christian subjects shall be bound in conscience to observe ; or otherwise make good any of those particulat conclusions , that therefore christ is not the ouly law giver to his church ; or that divin● revelation is not the adequate rule of divin● worship ; or that men may add any thing to the worship of god , to be observed in it , constantly and indispensiely , by the whole church ; will manifest himself to have an excellency in argumentation , beyond what i have ever yet met withal . a removal of the argument taken from the perfection of the scripture , and its sufficiency to instruct us in the whole counsel and will of god , concerning his worship and our obedience unto him , is nextly attempted : but with no engines , but what have been discovered to be insufficient to that purpose an hundred times . it is alledged , that what the scripture commands in the worship of god , is to be observed ; that what it forbids , is to be avoided , which if really acknowledged , and a concernment of the consciences of men be granted therein , is sufficiently destructive of the principal design of our author . but moreover i say , that it commands and fo●●bids things by general rules , as well by particular precepts and inhibition and that , if what is so commanded be d●served , and what is so forbidden be avoided , there is a direct-rule remaining in for the whole worship of god. but this is said here to be of substan●● duties , but not of external circumstance and if it be so even of substantial dut●● it perfectly overthrows all that our autho● hath been pleading in the three first cha●ters of his discourse . for external circumstances ; of what nature those are wh●● are disposable by humane authority an● prudence , hath been now often declare and needs not here to be repeated . the summ of his apprehensions in th● matter , about the perfection and suffici●ency of the scripture in reference to th● worship of god , our author gives us pag. . anything , saith he , is lawful ( th●● is , in the worship of god ) that is no● made unlawful by some prohibition : for things become evil , not upon the scors of there being not commanded ; but upon that of their being forbidden , and what the scripture forbids not , it allows ; and what it allows , is not unlawful ; and what is not unlawful , may lawfully be done . this tale , i confess , we have been told many and many a time : but it hath been as often answered , that the whole of it , as to any thing of reasoning , is captious and sophistical . once more therefore ; what is commanded in the worship of god , is lawful ; yea is our duty to observe . all particular instances of this sort , that are to have actual place in the worship of god , were easily enumerated , and so expresly commanded . and why among sundry things that might equally belong thereunto one should be commanded , and another left at liberty without any institution , no man can divine . of particular things not to be observed there is not the same reason . it is morally impossible , that all instances of mens inventions , all that they can find out to introduce into the worship of god , at any time , in any age , and please themselves therein , should be before hand enumerated , and prohibited in their particular instances . and if because they are not so forbidden , they may lawfully be introduced into divine worship , and imposed upon the practices of men ; ten thousand things may be made lawful , and be so imposed . but the truth is , although a particular prohibition be needful to render a thing evil in it self ; a general prohibition is enough to render any thing unlawful in the worship of god. so we grant , that what is not forbidden is lawful : but withal say , that every thing is forbidden , that should be esteemed as any part of divine worship , that is not commanded ; and if it were not , yet for want of such a command , or divine institution , it can have neither use nor efficacy , with respect to the end of all religious worship . our author speaks with his wonted confidence in this matter ; yea it seems to rise to its highest pitch : as also doth his contempt of his adversaries , or whatever is , or may be offered by them in the justification of this principle . infinite certainty on his own part , pag. . baffled and intolerable impertinencies ; weak and puny arguments ; cavils of a few hot-headed and brainsick people , with other opprobrious expressions of the like nature , filling up a great part of his leaves , are what he can afford unto those whom he opposeth . but yet i am not , for all this bluster , well satisfied , much less infinitely certain , that he doth in any competent measure understand aright the controversie , about which he treats with all this wrath and confidence . for the summ of all , that here he pleads , is no more but this ; that the circumstances of actions in particular are various , and as they are not , so they cannot be determined by the word of god ; and therefore must be ordered by humane prudence and authority : which if he suppose that any men deny , i shall the less wonder at his severe reflections upon them ; though i shall never judge them necessary or excusable in any case whatever . pag. . he imposeth it on others that lye under the power of this perswasion , that they are obliged in conscience to act contrary to whatever their superiours command them in the worship of god : which further sufficiehtly evidenceth , that either be understands not the controversie under debate , or that he believes not himself in what he saith : which , because the harsher imputation , i shall avoid the owning of in the least surmise . section . from the concession , that the magistrate may take care , that the laws of christ be executed ; that is , command and require his subjects to observe the commands of christ , in that way , and by such means , as those commands , from the nature of the things themselves , and according to the rule of the gospel , may be commanded and required ; he infers , that he hath himself power of making laws in rel●●gion . but why so ? and how doth thi● follow ? why , saith he , it is apparently im●plyed , because whoever hath a power to see the laws be executed , cannot be without a pow●● to command their execution . very good but the conclusion should have been ; he cannot be without a power to make laws is the matter , about which he looks to the execution : which would be good doctrine for justices of the peace to follow . but what is here laid down is nothing but repeating of the same thing in words a little varied ; as if it had been said ; he that hath power to see the laws executed , or a power to command their execution , he hath power to see the laws executed , or a power to command their execution ; which is very true . and this we acknowledge the magistrate hath , in the way before declared . but that because he may do this , he may also make laws of his own in religion , it doth not at all follow from hence , whether it be true or no. but this is further confirmed from the nature of the laws of christ , which have only declared the substance and morality of religious worship : and therefore must needs have left the ordering of its circumstances to the power and wisdom of lawful authority . the laws of christ , which are intended , are those , which he hath given concerning the worship of god. that these have determined the morality of religious worship , i know not how he can well allow , who makes the law of nature to be the measure of morality , and all moral religious worship . and for the substance of religious worship , i wish it were well declared what is intended by it . for my part i think , that whatever is commanded by christ , the observation of it , is of the substance of religious worship ; else i am sure the sacraments are not so . now do but give men leave , as rational creatures , to observe those commands of christ in such a way and manner , as the nature of them requires them to be observed ; as he hath himself in general rules prescribed ; as the concurrent actions of many in society make necessary ; and all this controversie will be at an end . when a duty , as to the kind of it , is commanded in particular , or instituted by christ in the worship of god , he hath given general rules to guide us in the individual performance of it , as to the circumstances that the actions whereby it is performed , will be attended withal . for the disposal of those circumstances according to those rules , prudence is to take place and to be used . for men , who are obliged to act as men in all other things , are not to be looked on as brutes in what is required of them in the worship of god. but to institute mystical rites , and fixed forms of sacred administrations , whereof nothing in the like kind doth necessarily attend the acting of instituted worship , it not to determine circumstances , but to ordain new parts of divine worship : and such injunctions are here confessed by our author , pag. . to be new and distinct commands by themselves , and to enjoyn something that the scripture no where commands : which when he produceeth a warranty for , he will have made a great progress towards the determining of the present controversie . page . he answers an objection , consisting of two branches , as by him proposed : whereof the first is ; that it cannot stand with the love and wisdom of god not to take order himself for all things , that immediately concern his own worship and kingdom . now though i doubt not at all , but that god hath so done ; yet i do not remember at present , that i have read any imposing the necessity hereof upon him , in answer to his love and wisdom . i confess valerianus magnus , a famous writer of the church of rome , tells us , that never any one did so foolishly institute or order a commonwealth , as jesus christ must be thought to have done ; if he have not left one supream judge to determine the faith and consciences of men in matters of religion and divine worship . and our author seems not to be remote from that kind of reasoning , who , without an assignment of a power to that purpose , contendeth that all things among men will run into confusion ; of so little concernment do the scriptures and the authority of god in them , to some seem to be . we do indeed thankfully acknowledge , that god out of his love and wisdom hath ordered all things belonging to his worship and spiritual kingdom in the world . and we do suppose , we need no other argument to evince this assertion , but to challenge all men , who are otherwise minded , to give an instance of any defect in his institutions to that purpose . and this we are the more confirmed in , because those things , which men think good to add unto them , they dare not contend that they are parts of his worship ; or that they are added to supply any defect therein . neither did ever any man yet say , that there is a defect in the divine institutions of worship , which must be supplyed by a ministers wearing surplice . all then that is intended in this consideration , though not urged , as is here pretended , is ; that god in his goodness , love and care towards his church , hath determined all things that are needful i● or to his worship : and about what is not needful , men , if they please , may contend ; but it will be to no great purpose . the other part of the objection , which he proposeth to himself , is laid down by him in these words ; if jesus christ hath not determined all particular rites and circumstances of religion , he hath discharged his office with less wisdom and fidelity than moses ; who ordered every thing appertaining to the worship of god , even as far as the pint or nails of the tabernacle . and hereunto in particular he returns in answer , not one word : but only ranks it amongst idle and impertinent reasonings . and i dare say , he wants not reasons for his silence : whether they be pertinent or no , i know not . for setting aside the advantage , that , it is possible , he aimed to make in the manner and terms of the proposal of this objection to his sentiments ; and it will appear , that he hath not much to offer for its removal . we dispute not about the rites and circumstances of religion , which are termes ambiguous , and , as hath been declared , may be variously interpreted ; no more than we do about the nails of the tabernacle , wherein there were none at all . but it is about the worship of god and what is necessary thereunto . the ordering hereof , that is , of the house of god and all things belonging thereunto , was committed to jesus christ , as a son over his own house , heb. . , , . in the discharge of his trust herein , he was faithful as was moses ; who received that testimony from god , that he was faithful in all his house , upon his ordering all things in the worship of god as he commanded him , without adding any thing of his own thereunto , or leaving any thing uninstituted or undetermined , which was to be of use therein . from the faithfulness of christ , therefore , in and over the house of god , as it is compared with the faithfulness of moses , it may be concluded , i think ; that he ordered all things for the worship of god in the churches of the new testament , as far as moses did in and for the church of the old ; and more is not contended for . and it will be made appear , that his commission in this matter was as extensive , as that of moses at the least ; or he could not , in that trust and the discharge of it , have that preheminence above him , which in th● place is ascribed unto him . section . an account is given of th● great variety of circumstances , which do a●tend all humane actions : whence it is in possible that they should be all determine by divine prescription . the same we sa● also ; but add withal , that if men woul● leave these circumstance free under t●● conduct of common prudence in the in●stituted worship of god , as they are com●pelled so to do in the performance of mo●ral duties , and as he himself hath le●● them free ; it would be as convenient fo● the reasons and consciences of men , an attempt to the contrary . thus we hav● an instance given us by our author in th● moral duty of charity ; which is command●ed us of god himself ; but the times , sea●sons , manner , objects , measures of it are le●● free , to be determined by humane pru●dence , upon emergencies and occasions ▪ it may be now enquired , whether th● magistrate , or any other , can determine those circumstances by a law ? and whether they are not , as by god , so by al● wise men , left free , under the conduct of their reason and conscience , who are obliged to the duty it self by the command of god ? and why may not the same rule and order be observed with respect to the circumstances that attend the performance of the duties of instituted worship ? besides , there are general circumstances that are capable of a determination : such are time and place as naturally considered , without such adjuncts as might give them a moral consideration , or render them good or evil ; these the magistrate may determine . but for particular circumstances attending individual actions , they will hardly be regulated by a standing law. but none of these things have the least interest in our debate . to add things necessarily to be observed in the worship of god , no way naturally related unto the actions wherewith prescribed worship is to be performed , and then to call them circumstances thereof , erects a notion of things which nothing but interest can digest and concoct . his eighth section is unanswerable . it contains such a strenuous reviling of the puritans , and contemptuous reproaches of their writings , with such encomi●ms of their adversaries , as there is no dealing with it . and so i leave it . and so likewise i do his ninth , wherein , as he saith , he upbraids the men of his contest with their shameful overthrows : and dares them to look those enemies in the face , that have so lamentably cowed them , by so many absolute triumphs and victories . which kind of juvenile exultations on feigned suppositions , will , i suppose , in due time receive an allay from his own more advised thoughts and considerations . the instance , wherewith he countenaunceth himself in his triumphant acclamations unto the victory of his party , is the book of mr. hooker and its being unanswered . concerning which i shall only say ; that , as i wish the same moderation , ingenuity and learning unto all , that engage in the same cause with him in these dayes ; so if this author will mind us of any one argument in his longsome discourse , not already frequently answered , and that in print , long ago , that it shall have its due consideration . but this kind of discourses , it may be , on second thoughts will be esteemed not so comely . and i can mind him of those , who boast as highly of some champions of their own against all protestants , as he can do of any patron of those opinions , which he contendeth for . but it doth not alwayes fall out , that those who have the most outward advantages , and greatest leisure , have the best cause , and abilities to mannage it . the next sections treat concerning superstition , will-worship and popery ; which , as he faith , having been charged by some on the church unduly , he retorts the crime of them upon the authors of that charge . i love not to strive , nor will i contend about words that may have various significations fixed on them . it is about things that we differ . that which is evil , is so , however you call it , and whether you can give it any special name or no. that which is good , will still be so , call it what and how men please . the giving of a bad or odious name to any thing , doth not make it self to be bad or odious . the managing therefore of those appellations , either as to their charge or recharge , i am no way concerned in . when it is proved , that men believe , teach or practise otherwise , than in duty to god they ought to do ; then they do evil : and when they obey his mind and will in all things , then they do well ; and in the end will have the praise thereof . in particular , i confess superstition , as the word is commonly used , denotes a vicious habit of mind with respect unto god and his worship ; and so is not a proper denomination for the worship it self , or of any evil or crime in it . but yet , if it were worth contending about , i could easily manifest , that according to the use of the word by good authors in all ages , men have been charged with that crime , from the kind and nature of the worship it self observed by them . and when st. paul charged the athenians with an excess in superstition , it was from the multiplication of their gods , and thronging them together , right or wrong , in the dedication of their altars . but these things belong not at all to our present design . let them , who enjoyn things unto an indispensible necessary observation in the worship of god , which are not by him prescribed therein , take care of their own minds , that they be free from the vice of superstition ; and they shall never be judged , or charged by me therewith . though i must say , that a multiplication of instances in this kind , as to their own observation , is the principle , if not the only way whereby men who own the true and proper object of religious worship , do or may manifest themselves to be influenced by that corrupt habit of mind ; so that they may relate unto superstition , as the effect to its cause . but the recrimination here insisted on , with respect unto them , who refuse admittance unto , or observance of things so enjoyned , is such as ought to be expected from provocations , and a desire of retortion . such things usually taste of the cask ; and are sufficiently weak and impertinent . for it is a mistake , that those charged do make , as 't is here expressed , any thing necessary not to be done ; or put any religion in the not doing of any thing , or the non-observance of any rites , orders , or ceremonies ; any other , than every one puts in his abstinence from what god forbids ; which is a part of our moral obedience . and the whole question , in this matter , is not , whether , as it is here phrased , god hath tyed up his creatures to nice and pettish laws ; laying a greater stress upon a doubtful or indifferent ceremony , than upon the great duty of obedience . but meerly , whether men are to observe in the worship of god , what they apprehend he hath enjoyned them ; and to abstain from what he doth forbid ; according to all the light that they have into his mind and will ; which enquiry , as i suppose , may be satisfied ; that they are so to practise , and so to abstain , without being lyable to the charge of superstition . no man can answer for the minds of other men ; nor know what depraved vicious habits and inclinations , they are subject unto . outward actions are all , that we are in any case allowed to pass judgement upon ; and of mens minds , as those actions are indications of them . let men therefore , observe and do in the worship of god whatever the lord christ hath commanded them ; and abstain from what he hath forbidden , whether in particular instances , or by general directive precepts and rules , by which means alone many things are capable of falling under a prohibition ; without the least thought of placing any worship of god in their abstinence from this or that thing in particular ; and i think , they need not much concern themselves in the charge of superstition , given in , or out , by any against them . for what is discoursed section . about will-worship , i cannot so far agree with our author , as i could in what passed before about superstition ; and that partly because i cannot discern him to be herein at any good agreement with himself . for superstition , he tells us , consists in the apprehensions of men , when their minds are possessed with weak and uncomly conceits of god , pag. . here , that will-worship is one sort of superstition ; and yet this will-worship consists in nothing else , than in mens making their own phancys and inventions necessary parts of religion , which outward actings are not coincident with the inward frame and habit of mind before described . and i do heartily wish , that some men could well free themselves from the charge of will worship , as it is here described by our author ; though cautelously expressed , to secure the concernments of his own interest from it . for although i will not call the things , they contend to impose on others in the worship of god , their phancys ; yet themselves acknowledge them to be their inventions : and when they make them necessary to be observed in the whole worship of god , as publick and stated ; and forbid the celebration of that worship without them ; when they declare their usefulness , and spiritual or mystical significancy in that worship or service , designed to honour god in or by their use ; setting up some of them to an exclusion of what christ hath commanded ; if i cannot understand , but that they make them necessary parts of gods worship , as to the actual observance of it , i hope they will not be angry with me : since i know the worst they can possibly with truth charge upon me in this matter , is , that i am not so wise , nor of so quick an understanding as themselves . neither doth our author well remove his charge from those whose defence he hath undertaken : for 〈◊〉 doth it only by this consideration ; tha● they do not make the things , by them introduced in the worship of god , to be parts of religion . they are not so , he saith , nor are made so by then . for this hinders not , but that they may be looked on as parts of divine worship ; seeing we are taught by the same hand , that external worship is no part of religion at all . and let him abide by what he closeth this section withall ; namely , that they make not any additions to the worship of god , but only provide , that what god hath required , be performed in an orderly and decent manner , and as to my concern , there shall be an end of this part of our controversie . the ensuing paragraphs about christian liberly ; adding to the commands of god ; and pope●y ; are of the same nature with those preceeding about superstition and will-worship . there is nothing new in them , but words ; and they may be briefly passed through . for the charge of popery , on the one side or other , i know nothing in it ; but that , when any thing is injoyned or imposed on mens practice in the worship of god , which is known to have been invented in and by the papal church during the time of its confessed aposta●y , it must needs beget prejudices against it in the minds of them , who consider the wayes , means , and ends of the fatal de●ection of that church ; and are jealous of a sinful complyance with it in any of those things . the recharge on those , who are said to set up a pope in every mans conscience , whilest they vest it with a power of countermanding the decrees of princes ; if no more be intended , by countermanding , but a refusal to observe their decrees , and yield obedience to them in things against their consciences , which is all can be pretended ; if it fall not on this author himself , as in some cases it doth ; and which by the certain conduct of right reason , must be extended to all , wherein the consciences of m●n are affected with the authority of god ; yet it doth on all christians in the world , that i know of , besides himself . for adding to the law of god , it is not charged on any , that they add to his commands ; as though they made their own divine , or part of his word and law : but only that they add in his worship to the things commanded by him , which being forbidden in the scripture , when they can free themselves from it , i shall rejoyce ; but as yet see not how they can so do . nor are there any , that i ko●● of , who set up any prohibitions of their ow● in or about the worship of god , or as thing thereunto pertaining , as is unduly and unrighteously pretended . there 〈◊〉 be indeed some things injoyned by me● which they do and must abstain from , 〈◊〉 they would do from any other sin whateve● but their consciences are regulated by ● prohibitions , but those of god himsel●● and things are prohibited and made sinf●● unto them , not only when in particular and by a specification of their instances they are forbidden ; but also when ther● lye general prohibitions against them ● any account whatever . some men indee● think , that if a particular prohibition of any thing might be produced , they would a● quiesce in it ; whilst they plead an ex●emption of sundry things from being in●cluded in general prohibitions ; althoug● they have the direct formal reason attending them , on which those prohibition● are founded . but it is to be feared , tha● this also is but a pretence . for let any thing be particularly forbidden , yet i● mens interest and superstition induce them to observe or retain it ; they will find out distinctions to evade the prohibition and retain the practice . what can be more directly forbidden , than the making or use●●g of graven images , in or about religious worship ? and yet we know how little ●ome men do acquiesce in that prohibi●●on . and it was the observation of a ●earned prelate of this nation , in his re●ection of the distinctions whereby they ●ndeavoured to countenance themselves in their idolatry ; that the particular instances of things forbidden in the second commandment , are not principally intended ; ●ut the general rule , of not adding any thing in the worship of god without his institution . non imago , saith he , non simulachrum prohibetur ; sed non facies tibi . what way , therefore , any thing becomes a sin unto any , be it by a particular or general prohibition ; be it from the scandal that may attend its practice ; unto him it is a sin . and it is a wild notion , that when any persons abstain from the practice of that in the worship of god , which to them is sinful as so practised , they add prohibitions of their own to the commands of god. the same is to be said concerning christian liberty . no man , that i know of , makes things indifferent to be sinful , as is pretended ; nor can any man in his right wits do so . for none can entertain contradictory notions of the same things , at the same time : as those are , that the fa●● things are indifferent , that is , not sin●●● and sinful . but this some say ; that this in their own nature indifferent , that 〈◊〉 absolutely so , may be yet relatively 〈◊〉 lawful ; because with respect unto that ●●●●lation forbidden of god. to set up altar of old for a civil memorial in a place , was a thing indifferent : but to 〈◊〉 up an altar to offer sacrifices on , who the tabernacle was not , was a sin . it● indifferent for a man that understands th● language , to read the scripture in la●●● or in english : but to read it in latine u● a congregation that understands it 〈◊〉 as a part of gods worship , would be 〈◊〉 nor doth our christian liberty consist al●● in our judgement of the indifferency things in their own nature , made nec●●●sary to practice by commands , as hath b● shewed . and if it doth so , the jews h● that priviledge as much as christians . a● they are easily offended , who complain● that their christian liberty , in the p●●ctice of what they think meet in the w●●ship of god , is intrenched on , by such , leaving them to their pleasure , because their apprehension of the will of god the contrary , cannot comply with them their practice . the close of this chapter is designed to the removal of an objection , pretended to be weighty and difficult ; but indeed made so meerly by the novel opinions advanced by this author . for laying aside all respect unto some uncouth principles broached in this discourse , there is scarce a christian child of ten years old , but can resolve the difficulty pretended , and that according to the mind of god. for it is supposed , that the magistrate may establish a worship that is idolatrous and superstitious : and an enquiry is made thereon , what the subject shall do in that case ? why ? where lyes the difficulty ? why , saith he , in this case they must be either rebels , or idolaters . if they obey , they sin against god : if they disobey , they sin against their soveraign . according to the principles hither to received in christian religion , any one would reply , and say , no : for it is certain , that men must obey god , and not contract the guilt of such horrible sins , as idolatry and superstition ; but in so doing they are neither rebels against their ruler , nor do sin against him . it is true , they must quieily and patiently submit to what they may suffer from him : but they are in so doing guilty of no rebellion nor sin against him . did ever any christian yet so much as call it into question , whether the primitive christians were rebels , and sinned against their rulers because they would not obey those edicts , whereby they established idolatrous worship ? or did any one ever think , that they had a difficult case of conscience to resolve in that matter ? they were indeed accused by the pagans as rebels against the emperours ; but no christian every yet thought their case to have been doubtful . but all this difficulty ariseth from the making of two gods , where there ought to be but one . and this renders the case so perplexed , that , for my part , i cannot see directly , how it is determined by our author . sometimes he speaks , as though it were the duty of subjects to comply with the establishment of idolatry supposed , as pag. , . for with respect , as i suppose it is , to the case as by him stated , that he sayes ; men must not withdraw their obedience : and better submit unto the unreasonable impositions of nero or caligula , than to hazard the dissolution of the state. sometimes he seems not to oblige them in conscience to practise according to the publick prescription ; but only pleads , that the magistrate may punish them , if they do not ; and sain would have it thought , that he may do so justly . but these things are certain unto us in this matter , and are so many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in christian religion ; that if the supream magistrate command any thing in the worship of god that is idolatrous , we are not to practise it accordingly ; because we must obey god rather than men . nextly , that in our refusal of complyance with the magistrates commands , we do neither rebel nor sin against him . for god hath not , doth not at any time , shut us up in any condition unto a necessity of sinning . thirdly , that in case the magistrate shall think meet , through his own mistakes and misapprehensions , to punish , destroy and burn them alive , who shall not comply with his edicts , as did nebuchadnezzar ; or as they did in england in times of popery ; after all honest and lawful private wayes of self-preservation used , which we are obliged unto ; we are quietly and patiently to submit to the will of god in our sufferings , without opposing or resisting by force , or stirring up seditions or tumults , to the disturbance of publick peace . but our author hath elsewhere provided a full solution of this difficulty , chap. . p. . where he tells us , that in cases and disputes of a publick concern , private men are not properly sui juris ; they have no power over thi● actions ; they are not to be directed by thei● own judgements , or determined by their ou● wills ; but by the commands and determina●●ons of the publick conscience . and if the● be any sin in the command , he that imposed i● shall answer for it , and not i whose duty it i● to obey . the commands of authority will warrant my obedience , my obedience will hall●● or at least excuse my action ; and so secure 〈◊〉 from sin if not from errour , because i folle● the best guide and most probable direction , 〈◊〉 am capable of ; and though i may mistake , my integrity shall preserve my innocence ; and in all doubtfull and disputable cases it is better to err with authority , than to be in the right against it . when he shall produce any o●● divine writer , any of the ancient fathers , any sober schoolmen , or casuists , any learned modern divines , speaking at this rate , or giving countenance unto this direction given to men , for the regulating of their moral actions , it shall be farther attended unto . i know some such thing is muttered amongst the pleaders for blind obedience upon vowes voluntarily engaged into , for that purpose . but as it is acknowledged by themselves , that by those vowes , they deprive themselves of that right and liberty which naturally belongs unto them , as unto all other men , wherein they place much of the merit of them ; so by others those vowes themselves , with all the pretended bruitish obedience that proceeds from them , are sufficiently evidenced to be an horrible abomination , and such as make a ready way for the perpetration of all villanies in the world , to which purpose that kind of obedience hath been principally made use of . but these things are extreamly fond ; and not only , as applyed unto the worship of god , repugnant to the gospel , but also in themselves to the law of our creation , and that moral dependance on god , which is indispensible unto all individuals of mankind . we are told in the gospel , that every one is to be fully perswaded in his own mind ; that whatever is not of faith is sin ; that we are not to be ( in such things ) the servants of men ; that other mens leading of us amiss , whoever they are , will not excuse us ; for if the blind lead the blind , both shall fall into the ditch ; and he that followeth , is as sure to perish as he that leadeth . the next guids of the souls and consciences of men , are doubtless those who speak unto them in the name of god , or preachers of the gospel . yet are all the disciples of christ , frequently warned to take heed that they be not deceived by any , under that pretence , but diligently examining what is proposed unto them , they discern in themselves what is good and evil . nor doth the great apostle himself require us to be followers of him , any further than he was a follower of christ. they will find small relief , who at the last day shall charge their sins on the commands of others , whatever hope to the contrary they are put into by our author . neither will it be any excuse that we have done according to the precepts of men , if we have done contrary to those of god. ephraim , of old , was broken in judgement , because he willingly walked after the commandment , hos. . but would not his obedience hallow , or at least excuse his action ? and would not the authority of the king warrant his obedience ? or must ephraim now answer for the sin , and not be only that imposed the command ? but it seems that when jeroboam sinned , who at that time had this goodly creature of the publick conscience in keeping , he made israel sin also , who obeyed him . it is moreover a brave attempt to assert that private men with respect to any of their moral actions , are not properly sui juris , have no power over their actions , are not to be directed by their own judgements , or determined by their own wills . this is circes rod , one stroke whereof turned men into hoggs . for to what purpose serve their understandings , their judgements , their wills , if not to guide and determine them in their actions ? i think he would find hard work , that should go about to perswade men to put out their own eyes , or blind themselves , that they might see all by one publick eye . and i am sure it is no less unreasonable , to desire them to reject their own wills , understandings , and judgements , to be lead and determined by a publick conscience ; considering especially that that publick conscience it self is a meer tragelaphus , which never had existence in rerum natura . besides , suppose men should be willing to accept of this condition of renouncing their own understandings and judgements , from being their guides as to their moral actions ; i fear it will be found that indeed they are not able so to do . mens understandings , and their consciences , are placed in them by him who made them , to rule in them and over their actions in his name , and with respect unto their dependance on him . and let men endeavour it whilest they please , they shall never be able utterly to cast of this yoke of god , and destroy this order of things , which by him inlaid in the principles of all rational beings . men , whilest they are me● in things that have a moral good or e●● in them or adhering to them , must be guided and determined by their own understandings whether they will or no. a● if by any means , they stisle the actings 〈◊〉 them at present , they will not avoid the judgement , which according to them , shi● pass upon them at the last day . but the● things may elsewhere be farther pursue . in the mean time the reader may take thi● case as it is determined by the learned p●●late before mentioned , in his dialogue abou● subjection and obedience against the p●pists , whose words are as follow . par. pag. . philand . if the prince establish any religion , whatever it be , you must by you● oath obey it . theoph. we must not rebel● and take arms against the prince ; but will reverence and humility serve god before the prince , and that is nothing against our oath . philand . then is not the prince supream . theoph . why so . philand . your selves are superiour , when you serve whom you list . theoph. as thought to serve god according to his will , were to serve whom we list , and not whom princes and all others ought to serve . philand . but you will be judges , when god is well served , and when not . theoph. if you can excuse us before god when you mistead us , we will serve him as you shall appoint us ; otherwise if every man shall answer for himself , good reason he be master of his own conscience , in that which toucheth him so near , and no man shall excuse him for . philand . this is to make every man supream judge of religion . theoph. the poorest wretch that is , may be supreme governour of his own heart ; princes rule the publick and external actions of their countreyes , but not the consciences of men . this in his dayes was the doctrine of the church of england ; and as was observed before , no person who then lived in it , knew better what was so . the sole enquiry remaining is , whether the magistrate , having established such a religion , as is idolatrous or superstitious , may justly and lawfully punish and destroy his subjects , for their non-complyance therewithall ? this is that , which , if i understand him , our author would give countenance unto ; contrary to the common sense of all christians , yea of common sense it self . for wherereas he interweaves his discourse with suppositions , that men may mistake in religion , and abuse it ; all such interpositions are purely sophistical , seeing the case proposed to resolution , which ought in the whole to be precisely attended unto , is about the refusal to observe and practise a religion idolatrous or superstitious . of the like nature is that argument , which alone he makes use of here and elsewhere , to justifie his principles ; namely , the necessity of government ; and how much better the worst government is , and the most depraved in its administration , than anarchy or confusion . for as this by all mankind is unquestioned ; so i do not think there is any one among them , who can tell how to use this concession to our authors purpose . doth it follow , that because magistrates cannot justly nor righteously prescribe an idolatrous religion , and compel their subjects to the profession and obedience of it ; and because the subjects cannot , nor ought to yield obedience therein , because of the antecedent and superiour power of god over them ; that therefore anarchy or confusion must be preferred before such an administration of government ? let the magistrate command what he will in religion , yet whilest he attends unto the ends of all civil government , that government must needs be every way better than none ; and is by private christians to be born with , and submitted unto , untill god in his providence shall provide relief . the primitive christians lived some ages in the condition described ; refusing to observe the religion required by law ; and exercising themselves in the worship of god , which was strictly forbidden . and yet neither anarchy , nor confusion , nor any disturbance of publick tranquility did ensue thereon . so did the protestants here in england in the dayes of queen mary , and sometime before . the argument , which he endeavours in these discourses to give an answer unto , is only of this importance . if the supream magistrate may command what religion he pleaseth , and enact the observation of it under destructive penalties ; whereas the greatest part of magistrates in the world will and do prescribe such religions and wayes of divine worship , as are idolatrous or superstitious , which their subjects are indispensibly bound in conscience not to comply withall ; then is the magistrate justified in the punishing of men for their serving of god as they ought ; and they may suffer as evil doers , in what they suffer as christians . this , all the world over , will justifie them that are uppermost , and have power in their hands , ( on no other ground , but because they are so , and have so , ) in this oppressions and destructions of them , th● being under them in civil respects , d● dissent from them in things religious , no● whether this be according to the mind 〈◊〉 god or no , is left unto the judgement 〈◊〉 all indifferent men . we have , i confes●● i know not how many expressions inte●posed in this discourse , as was observed about sedition , troubling of publick peace men being turbulent against prescribe rules of worship , whereof if he pretend that every peaceable dissenter and dissent from what is publickly established in religious worship , are guilty , he is a pleasa●●● man in a disputation ; and , if he do any thing , he determines his case proposed o● the part of complyance with idolatro● and superstitious worship . if he do not so ; the mention of them in this place it very importune and unseasonable . all men acknowledge , that such miscarriages and practices may be justly coerced and punished . but what is this to a bare refusal to comply in any idolatrous worship , and peacable practice of what god doth require , as that which he will accept and own ? but our author proceeds to find out many pretences , on the account whereof , persons whom he acknowledgeth to be innocent and guiltless , may be punished . and though their apprehensions in religion be not , as he saith , so much their crime , as their infelicity , yet there is no remedy , but it must expose them to the publick rods and axes , pag. . i have heard of some wise and righteous princes , who have affirmed , that they had rather let twenty nocent persons go free , than punish or destroy one that is innocent . this seems to render them more like him , whose vice-gerents they are ; than to seek out colourable reasons for the punishment of them , whom they know to be innocent ; which course is here suggested unto them . such advice might be welcome to him , whom men called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , clay mingled and leavened with blood ; others no doubt will abhor it , and detest it . but what spirit of meekness and mercy our author is acted by , he discovereth in the close of this chapter , pag. . for , saith he , it is easily imaginable how an honest and well-meaning man may , through meer ignorance , fall into such errours , which , though god will pardon , yet governours must punish . his integrity may expiate the crime , but cannot prevent the mischief of his errour . nay so easie is it for men to deserve to be punished for their consciences , that there is no nation in the world , in which , ( were government rightly understood and duty managed , ) mistakes and abuses of religion would not supply the gallies with vastly greater numbers , than villany . there is no doubt , but that if phaeton get into the chariot of the sun , the world will be sufficiently fired . and if every absalom who thinks he understands government and the due management of it , better than its present possessours , were enthroned , there would be havock enough made among mankind . but blessed be god , who in many places , hath disposed it into such hands , as under whom , those who desire to fear and serve him according to his will , may yet enjoy a more tolerable condition than such adversaries are pleased withall . that honest and well-meaning men , falling into errours about the worship of god , through their ownignorance , wherein their integrity may expiate their crime ; must be punished , must not be pardoned ; looks , methinks , with an appearance of more severity , than it is the will of god , that the world should be governed by ; seeing one end of his instituting and appointing government among men , is , to represent himself in his power , goodness and wisdom unto them . and he that shall conjoyn another assertion of our author , namely , that it is better and more eligible to tolerate debaucheries and immoralities in conversation , than liberty of conscience for men to worship god according to those apprehensions which they have of his will ; with the close of this chapter , that it is so easie for men to deserve to be punished for their consciences , that there is no nation in the world , in which , were government rightly understood , and duly managed , mistakes and abuses of religion would not supply the gallies with vastly greater numbers , than villany ; will easily judge with what spirit , from what principles , and with what design , this whole discourse was composed . but i find my self , utterly besides and beyond my intention , engaged in particular controversies : and finding by the prospect i have taken of what remains in the treatise under consideration ; that it is of the same nature and importance , with what is past and a full continuation of those opprobrious reproaches of them whom he opposeth ; and open discoveries of earnest desires after their trouble and ruine , which we have now sufficiently been inured unto ; i shall choose rather here to break off this discourse , than further to pursue the ventilation of those differences , wherein i shall not willingly , or of choice , at any time engage . besides , what is in the whole discourse of especial and particular controversie , may be better handled apart by it self : as probably ere long it will be ; if this new representation of old pretences , quickned by invectives , and improved beyond all bounds and measures formerly fixt or given unto them , be judged to deserve a particular consideration . in the mean time this author is more concerned than i , to consider , whether those bold incursions , that he hath made upon the antient boundaries and rules of religion , and the consciences of men ; those contemptuous revilings of his adversaries , which he hath almost fill'd the pages of his book withal ; those discoveries he hath made of the want of a due sense of the weaknesses and infirmities of men , which himself wants not ; and of fierce , implacable , sanguinary thoughts against them , who appeal to the judgement seat of god , that they do not in any thing dissent from him or others , but out of a reverence of the authority of god , and for fear of provoking his holy majesty ; his incompassionate insulting overmen in distresses and sufferings , will add to the comfort of that account , which he must shortly make before his lord and ours . to close up this discourse ; the principal design of the treatise thus far surveyed , is to perswade or seduce soveraign princes , or supream magistrates unto two evils , that are indeed inseparable , and equally pernicious to themselves and others . the one of these is , to invade or usurp the throne of god ; and the other , to behave themselves therein unlike him . and where the one leads the way , the other will assuredly follow . the empire over religion , the souls and consciences of men in the worship of god , hath hitherto been esteemed to belong unto god alone , to be a peculiar jewel in his glorious diadem . neither can it spring from any other fountain but absolute and infinite supremacy , such as belongs to him , as he hath alone , who is the first cause and last end of all . all attempts to educe it from , or to resolve it into any other principle , are vain and will prove abortive . but here the sons of men are enticed to say with him of old ; we will ascend into heaven ; we will exalt our throne above the stars of god ; we will sit upon the mount of the congregation , in the sides of the north ; we will ascend above the heights of the clouds ; we will be like the most high. for wherein can this be effected ? what ladders have men to climb personally into heaven ? and who shall attend them in their attempt ? it is an assuming of a dominion over the souls and consciences of men in the worship of god , wherein and whereby this may be pretended , and therein alone . and all this description of the invasion of the throne of god , whence he , who did so , is compared to lucifer , who sought supremacy in heaven ; is but the setting up of his power in and over the church in its worship , which was performed in the temple , the mount of the congregation , and in sion , on the north of the city of jerusalem , isaiah . this now princes are perswaded unto : and can scarce escape without reproaches , where they refuse or omit the attempting of it . suppose they be prevailed with , to run the hazzard and adventure of such an undertaking ; what is it that they are thereon perswaded unto ? how are they directed to behave themselves , after they have assumed a likeness unto the most high , and exalted themselves to his throne ? plainly that which is now expected from them , is nothing but wrath , fury , indignation , persecution , destructions , banishments , ruine of the persons , and families of men innocent , peaceable , fearing god , and useful in their several stations , to satisfie their own wills , or to serve the interests of other men . is this to act like god , whose power and authority they have assumed , or like to his greatest adversary ? doth god deal thus in this world , in his rule over the souls of men ? or is not this that , which is set out in the fable of phaeton , that he , who takes the chariot of the sun , will cast the whole world into a combustion ? so he , who of old is supposed to have affected the throne of god , hath ever since acted that cruelty to his power , which manifests what was his design therein , and what would have been the end of his coveted soveraignty . and whoever at any time shall take to himself that power , that is peculiar to god , will find himself left in the exercise of it , to act utterly unlike him , yea contrary unto him . power , they say , is a liquor , that let it be put into what vessel you will , it is ready to overflow : and as useful as it is , as nothing is more to mankind in this world , yet when it is not accompanied with a due proportion of wisdom and goodness , it is troublesome if not pernicious to them concerned in it . the power of god is infinite , and his soveraignty absolute : but the whole exercise of those glorious dreadful properties of his nature , is regulated by wisdom and goodness no less infinite than themselves . and as he hath all power over the souls and consciences of men ; so he exercises it with that goodness , grace , clemency , patience and forbearance , which i hope we are all sensible of . if there be any like him , equal unto him in these things , i will readily submit the whole of my religion and conscience unto him , without the least hesitation . and if god , in his dominion and rule over the souls and consciences of men , do exercise all patience , benignity , long-suffering and mercy ; for it is his compassion that we are not consumed ; doth he not declare , that none is meet to be entrusted with that power and rule , but they , who have those things like himself : at least , that in what they are or may be concerned in it , they express , and endeavour to answer his example . indeed soveraign princes and supream magistrates are gods vice-gerents , and are called gods on the earth ; to represent his power and authority unto men in government , within the bounds prefixed by himself unto them , which are the most extensive that the nature of things is capable of ; and in so doing , to conform themselves and their actings to him and his , as he is the great monarch , the proto-type of all rule and the exercise of it , in justice , goodness , clemency and benignity ; that so the whole of what they do may tend to the relief , comfort , refreshment and satisfaction of mankind , walking in wayes of peace and innocency , in answer unto the ends of their rule , is their duty , their honour and their safety . and to this end , doth god usually and ordinarily furnish them with a due proportion of wisdom and understanding : for they also are of god ; he gives them an understanding suited and commensurate to their work ; that what they have to do , shall not ordinarily be too hard for them : nor shall they be tempted to mistakes and miscarriages from the work they are imployed about , which he hath made to be their own . but if any of them shall once begin to exceed their bounds , to invade his throne , and to take to themselves the rule of any province , belonging peculiarly and solely to the kingdom of heaven ; therein a conformity unto god in their actings is not to be expected . for be they never so amply furnished with all abilities of mind and soul for the work , and those duties which are their own , which are proper unto them : yet they are not capable of any such stores of wisdom and goodness , as should fit them for the work of god , that which peculiarly belongs to his authority and power . his power is infinite ; his authority is absolute ; so are his wisdom , goodness and patience . thus he rules religion , the souls and consciences of men . and when princes partake in these things , infinite power , infinite wisdom , and infinite goodness , they may assume the same rule and act like him . but to pretend an interest in the one , and not in the other , will set them in the greatest opposition to him . those therefore , who can prevail with magistrates to take the power of god over religion and the souls of me● in their observance of it , need never fea● that when they have so done , they will imitate him in his patience , clemency , meekness , forbearance and benignity ; for they are no way capable of these things in a due proportion to that power which is not their own ; however they may be eminently furnished for that which is so . thus have we known princes , ( such as trajan , adrian , julian of old ) whilst they kept themselves to their proper sphere , ordering and disposing the affairs of this world , and all things belonging to publick peace , tranquility and welfare , to have been renowned for their righteousness , moderation and clemency , and thereby made dear to mankind : who , when they have fallen into the excess of assuming divine power over the consciences of men and the worship of god , have left behind them such footsteps and remembrances of rage , cruelty and blood in the world , as make them justly abhorred to all generations . this alone is the seat and posture , wherein the powers of the earth , are delighted with the sighs and groans of innocent persons , with the fears and dread of them , that are and would be at peace ; with the punishment of their obedient subjects ; and the binding of those hands of industry , which would willingly employ themselves for the publick good and welfare . take this occasion out of the way , and there is nothing that should provoke soveraign magistrates , to any thing that is grievous , irksome or troublesome to men peaceable and innocent ; nothing that should hinder their subjects from seeing the presence of god with them in their rule , and his image upon them in their authority , causing them to delight in the thoughts of them , and to pray continually for their continuance and prosperity . it may be some may be pleased for a season with s●●●rities against dissenters , such as concerning whom we discourse ; who falsely suppose their interest to lye therein . it may be they may think meet , rather to have all debaucheries of life and conversation tollerated , than liberty for peaceable men to worship god , according to their light and perswasion of his mind and will ; as the multitude was pleased of old with the cry of , release barrabas , and let jesus be crucified ; magistrates themselves will at length perceive , how little they are beholding to any , who importunately suggest unto them fierce and sanguinary connsels in these matters . it is a saying of maximilian the emperour celebrated in many authors ; nullum , said he , enormins peccatum dari potest , quam in conscientias imperium exercere velle . qui enim conscientiis imperare volunt , ii arcem caeli invadunt , & plerumque terrae possessionem perdunt . magistrates need not fear , but that the open wickedness and bloody crimes of men , will supply them with objects to be examples and testimonies of their justice and severity . and methinks it should not be judged an unequal petition by them , who rule in the stead and fear of god , that those who are innocent in their lives , useful in their callings and occasions , peaceable in the land , might not be exposed to trouble , only because they design and endeavour , according to their light , which they are invincibly perswaded to be from god himself , to take care , that they perish not eternally . however i know , i can mind them of advice , which is ten thousand times more their interest to attend unto , than to any that is tendred in the treatise we have had under consideration , and it is that given by a king , unto those that should pertake of the like royal authority with himself ; psalm . , , . be wise now therefore , o ye kings ; be instructed , ye judges of the earth . serve the lord with fear , and rejoyce with trembling . kiss the son , left he be angry , and ye perish from the way , when his wrath is kindled but a little ; blessed are all they that put their trust in him . and he who can inform me , how they can render themselves more like unto god , more acceptable unto him , and more the concern and delight of mankind , than by relieving peaceable and innocent persons from their fears , cares , and solicitousness about undeserved evils , or from the suffering of such things , which no mortal man can convince them , that they have merited to undergo or suffer ; he shall have my thanks for his discovery . and what is it , that we treat about ? what is it , that a little truce and peace is desired unto , and pleaded for ? what are the concerns of publick good therein ? let a little sedate consideration be exercised about these things , and the causelesness of all the wrath we have been conversing withall , will quickly appear . that there is a sad degeneracy of christianity in the world , amongst the professors of christian religion , from the rule , spirit , worship and conversation of the first christians , who in all things observed and expressed the nature , vertue , and power of the gospel , all must acknowledge , and many do complain . whatever of this kind comes to pass , and by what means soever , it is the interest and design of them , who are present gainers by it in the world , to keep all things in the posture , that yields them their advantage . hence upon every appearance of an alteration , or apprehension that any will desert the wayes of worship , wherein they have been engaged , they are cast into a storm of passion and outrage , like demetrius and the rest of the silver-smiths , pretending divisions , present settlement , ancient veneration , and the like ; when their gain and advantage , whether known or unknown to themselves , is that , which both influenceth them with such a frame of spirit , and animates them to actings suitable thereunto . thus in the ages past there was so great and universal an apostacy , long before fore-told , overspreading christianity , that by innumerable sober persons it was judged intolerable : and that , if men had any regard to the gospel of christ , their own freedom in the world , or everlasting blessedness , there was a necessity of a reformation , and the reduction of the profession of christian religion unto some nearer conformity to the primitive times and pattern . into this design sundry kings , princes , and whole nations engaged themselves , namely what lay in them , and according to the sentiments of truth they had received , to reduce religion unto its pristine glory . what wrath , clamours , fury , indignation , revenge , malice , this occasioned in them whose subsistence , wealth , advantages , honour and reputation , all lay in preserving things in their state of defection and apostacy , is known to all the world , hence therefore arose bloody persecutions in all , and fierce wars in many nations , where this thing was attempted ; stirred up by the craft and cruelty of them , who had mastered and managed the former declensions of religion to their own use and advantage . the guilt of which mischiefs and miseries unto mankind , is by a late writer amongst our selves , contrary to all the monuments of times past , and confessions of the adversaries themselves , endeavoured to be cast on the reformers . however a work of reformation was carried on in the world , and succeeded in many places : in none more eminently , than in this nation wherein we live . that the end aimed at , which was professedly the reduction of religion to its antient beauty and glory in truth and worship , is attained amongst us , some perhaps do judge , and absolutely acquiesce therein : and for my part i wish we had more did so . for , be it spoken , as i hope , without offence on the part of others , so without fear of giving it , or having it taken , on my own ; there are among many , such evident declensions from the first established reformation , towards the old or a new , and it may be worse apostacy ; such an apparent weariness of the principal doctrines and practices , which enlivened the reformation ; as i cannot but be troubled at , and wherewith many are offended . for although i do own a dissent from some present establishments in the church of england , yet i have that honour for the first reformers of it , and reformation it self ; that love to the truth declared and established in it ; that respect to the work and grace of god , in the conversion of the souls of thousands by the ministry of the word in these nations ; that i cannot but grieve continually to see the acknowledged doctrines of it deserted , its ancient principles and practices derided , its pristine zeal despised by some , who make advantage of its outward constitution ; inheriting the profits , emoluments and wealth , which the bounty of our kings have endowed it withal ; but not its spirit , its love , its stedfastness in owning the protestant truth and cause . but to return ; for these things may better elsewhere be complained of , seeing they relate only to particular persons . that what is done in reformation be established ; that any farther publick work of the same nature be attempted ; or the retrivement of what is done to its original condition and estate , belongs to the determination of the supream magistrate , and to that alone . private persons have no call , no warrant to attempt any thing unto those purposes . however many there are , who dislike some ecclestastical constitutions and modes of outward worship , which have been the matter of great contests from the first reformation : but much more dislike the degeneracy from the spirit , way and principles of the first reformers before mentioned , which in some at present , they apprehend , and therefore though many seem to be at a great distance from the present established forms of the church of england ; yet certainly all who are humble and peaceable , when they shall see the ministry of the church , as in former dayes in some measure , acted rightly and zealously towards the known ends of it , and such as are undeniably by all acknowledged , namely , the conviction of the world , the conversion of souls , and edification of them that do believe ; and the discipline of it exercised , in a conformily at least to the rule of the discipline of the secular powers of the earth , not to be a terrour to the good , but to them that do evil ; and in these things a demonstration of the meekness , humility , patience , forbearance , condescension to the weakness , mistakes , errings and wandrings of others , which the gospel doth as plainly and evidently require of us , as it doth , that we should believe in jesus christ ; will continually pray for its prosperity , though they cannot themselves joyn with it in sundry of its practices and wayes . in the mean time , i say , such persons as these , in themselves and for their own concerns , do think it their duty , not absolutely to take up in what hath been attained amongst us ; much less in what many are degenerated into ; but to endeavour the reduction of their practice in the worship of god , to what was first appointed by jesus christ ; as being perswaded , that he requires it of them ; and being convinced , that in the unspeakable variety that is in humane constitutions , rest unto their souls and consciences is not otherwise to be obtained . and if at the same time they endeavour not to reduce the manner and course of their conversation to the same rule and example , by which they would have their worship of god regulated ; they are hypocrites . short enough , no doubt , they come in both of perfection ; but both they profess to aim equally at . and herein alone can their consciences find rest and peace . in the doctrine of faith , consented on in the first reformation , and declared in the allowed writings of the church of england , they agree with others ; and wish with all their hearts they had more to agree withall . only they cannot come up to the practice of some things in the worship of god ; which being confessedly of humane prescription , their obedience in them would lye in a perfect contradiction to their principal design before mentioned . for those things , being chosen out from a great multitude of things of the same nature , invented by those , whose authority was rejected in the first reformation , or reduction of religion from its catholick apostacy ; they suppose , cannot justly be imposed on them ; they are sure , cannot be honestly received by them , whilest they design to reduce themselves unto the primitive rules and examples of obedience , in this design they profess themselves ready to be ruled by , and to yield subjection unto any truth or direction , that can or may be given them from the word of god , or any principles lawfully from thence educed . how their conviction is at present attempted , let the book under consideration , and some late unparallel'd and illegal acts of violence , conformable to the spirit of it , be a testimony . but in the management of their design , they proceed on no other principles , than those of the libetty of judgement ( of di●eretion or discerning they call it , ) for the determining of themselves and their own practices , in what they believe and prosess about religion , and the liberty of their consciences from all humane impositions , than were owned , pleaded and contended for by the first reformers , and the most learned defenders of the church of england , in their disputations against the papists ; those they will stand to , and abide by : yea than what are warranted by the principles of our nature and constitution ; for no man practiseth any thing , nor can practise it , but according to his own will and choice . now in these things , in their principle , or in their management of it , it may be they are mistaken ; it may be they are in an errour ; or under many mistakes and errours . but from their integrity they know themselves innocent , even in their mistakes . and it is in the nature of men to think strange of sedate violences , that befall them without their demerit , and of suffering by law without any guilt . their design of reducing themselves in worship and conversation to the primitive pattern , they openly avow : nor dare any directly condemn that design ; nor can they be convinced of insincerity in what they profess . and shall they they be destroyed , if they miss it in some matters of smaller concernment ? which , whatever some may boast of , is not hitherto tolerably proved . shall now their dissent in religious observances on this occasion , and those , and that about things mostly and chiefly , if not only , that appear neither name nor thing in the scripture , be judged a crime not to be expiated , but by their ruine ? are immoralities or vicious debaucheries rather to be tolerated , or exempted from punishment , than such a dissent ? what place of scripture in the old or new testament , which of the ancient fathers of the church , do speak at this rate ? opinions inconsistent with publick tranquility , with the general rules of moral duties in all relations and conditians ; practices of any tendency in themselves to political disturbances , are by none pleaded for . meer dissent it self , with different observances in the outward worship of god , is by some pretended indeed to be a civil disturbance . it hath alwayes been so by some , even by those , whose own established wayes have been superstitious and idolatrous . but wise men begin to smile , when they hear private interest pleaded as publick good , and the affections which it begets , as the common reason of things . and these pretences have been by all parties , at one time or another , refuted and discarded . let the merit of the cause be stated and considered , which is truly as above proposed , and no other : set aside prejudices , animosities , advantages from things past and by-gone in political disorders and tumults , wherein it hath no concern ; and it will quickly appear how little it is , how much , if possible , less than nothing , that is or can be pleaded for the countenancing of external severity in this case . doth it suite the spirit of the gospel , or his commands , to destroy good wheat , for standing , as is supposed , a little out of order , who would not have men pluck up the tares , but to let them stand quietly in the field untill harvest ? doth it answer his mind to destroy his disciples , who profess to love and obey him , from the earth ; who blamed his disciples of old for desiring to destroy the samaritans , his enemies , with fire from heaven ? we are told , that he , who was born after the flesh , persecuted him , who was born after the promise : and a work becoming him it was . and if men are sincere disciples of christ , though they may fall into some mistakes and errours , the outward persecuting of them on that account , will be found to be of the works of the flesh . it is certain , that for those in particular , who take upon them , in any place or degree , to be ministers of the gospel , there are commands for meekness , patience and forbearance , given unto them . and it is one of the greatest duties incumbent on them , to express the lord jesus christ , in the frame of his mind and spirit unto men ; and that eminently in his meekness and lowliness , which he calls us all in an especial manner to learn of him . a peculiar conformity also to the gospel , to the holy law of love , self-denyal and condescention , is required of them ; that they may not in their spirits , wayes and actings , make a false representation of him , and that which they profess . i know not therefore whence it is come to pass , that this sort of men do principally , if not only stir up magistrates and rulers to laws , seventies , penalties , coercions , imprisonments , and the like outward means of fierce and carnal power , against those , who in any thing dissent from them in religion . generally abroad throughout christendome , those , in whose hands the civil powers are , and who may be supposed to have inclinations unto the severe exercise of that power which is their own , such as they think possibly may become them as men and governours , would be inclineable to moderation towards dissenters , were they not excited , provoked and wearied by them , who pretend to represent jesus christ to the world ; as if any earthly potentate had more patience , mercy and compassion , than he look on those lutheran countreyes where they persecute the calvinists ; it is commonly declared and proved , that the migistrates , for the most part , would willingly bear with those dissenters , were they not stirred up continually to severities by them , whose duty it were to perswade them to clemency and moderation , if in themselves they were otherwise enclined . and this hath ruined the interest of the protestant religion in germany , in a great measure . do men , who destroy no more than they can , nor punish more than they are able , and cry out for assistence where their own arm fails them , render themselves hereby like to their heavenly father ? is this spirit from above ? doth that , which is so , teach men to harrase the consciences of persons , their brethren and fellow-servants , on every little difference in judgement and practice about religious things ? whom will such men fulfill the commands of patience , forbearance , waiting , meekness , condescension , that the gospel abounds with , towards ? is it only towards them , who are of the same mind with themselves ? they stand in no need of them : they stand upon the same terms of advantage with themselves . and for those that dissent , arise , kill , and eat , seems to be the only command to be observed towards them . and why all this fierceness and severity ? let men talk what they please , those aimed at , are peaceable in the land ; and resolve to be so , whatever may befall them . they despise all contrary insinuations . that they are , in their stations severally , usefull to the common-wealth , and collectively in their industry and trading , of great consideration to publick welfare , is now apparent unto all indifferent men . it is or must be , if it be for any thing , ( as surely no men delight in troubling others for trouble sake ; ) for their errors and mistakes , in and about the worship of god. all other pleass are meer pretences of passion and interest . but who judgeth them to be so guilty of errors ? why those , that stir up others to their hurt and disquietment . but is their judgement infallible ? how if they should be mistaken themselves in their judgement ? if they are , they do not only err , but persecute others for the truth . and this hath been the general issue of this matter in the world . error hath persecuted truth ten times , for truths once persecuting of error . but suppose the worst ; suppose them in errors and under mistakes ; let it be proved , that god hath appointed , that all men who so err , should be so punished , as they would have non-conformists , and though i should believe them in the truth , i would never more plead their cause . and would these men be willingly thus dealt withall , by those who judge , or may judge them to err ? it may be some would ; because they have a good security , that none shall ever judge them so to do , who hath power to punish them : for they will be of his mind . but sure none can be so absolutely confined unto themselves , nor so universally in all their affections and desires unto their own personal concerns , as not to have a compassion for some or other , who in one place or other are judged to err by them , who have power over them to affix what guilt they please unto that , which is not their crime . and will they justifie all their oppressors ? all men have an equal right in this matter , nothing is required , but being uppermost , to make a difference . this is that , which hath turned christendome into a shambles ; whilest every prevailing party , hath judged it their duty and interest , to destroy them that do dissent from them . once more ; what name of sin or wickedness will they find to affix to these errors ? nullum criminis nomen , nist nominis crimen . no man errs willingly , nor ought to be thought to tempt or seduce his own will , when his error is to his disadvantage . and he is innocent whose will is not guilty . moreover , those pretended errors in our case , are not in matters of faith ; nor for the most part , in or about the worship of god , or that which is acknowledged so to be : but in or about those things , which some think it convenient to add unto it , or conjoyn with it . and what quietness , what peace is there like to be in the world , whilst the sword of vengeance must be continually drawn about these things ? counsels of peace , patience , and forbearance , would certainly better become professors of the gospel , and preachers of everlasting peace than such passionate and furious enterprizes for severity , as we meet withal . and i no way doubt , but that all generous noble and heroick spirits , such as are not concerned in the impaleed peculiar interest and advantages of some , and do scorn the pedantick humours of mean and emulous souls ; when once a few more clouds of prejudices are scattered , will be willing to give up to god the glory of his soveraignty over the consciences of men ; and despise the thoughts of giving them disquietments for such things , as they can no way remedy ; and which hinder them not from being servants of god , good subjects to the king , and usefull in their respective lots and conditions . and now instead of those words of pilate , what i have written , i have written , which though uttered by him maliciously and despightfully , as was also the prophecy of caiaphas , were by the holy wise providence of god , turned into a testimony to the truth ; i shall shut up this discourse , with those of our saviour , which are unspeakably more our concernment to consider , matth. . , , , , , , . who then is a faithfull and wise servant , whom his lord hath made ruler over his houshold , to give them meat in due season ; blessed is that servant , whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing . verily i say unto you , he shall make him ruler over all his goods . but and if that evil servant shall say in his heart , my lord deferreth his coming ; and shall begin to smite his fellow servants , and to eat and drink with the dru●ken ; the lord of that servant shall come in a day that he looketh not for him , and in an hour that he is not aware of ; and shall cu● him assunder , and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites ; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth . finis . a paraenetick, or, humble addresse to the parliament and assembly for (not loose, but) christian libertie williams, roger, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing w ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a paraenetick, or, humble addresse to the parliament and assembly for (not loose, but) christian libertie williams, roger, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing w ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread [ ], p. printed by matthew simmons for henry overton ..., london : . attributed to williams by wing and nuc pre- imprints. "perused and allowed according to order." imperfect: print show-through. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. eng freedom of religion -- england -- history. great britain -- politics and government -- - . great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (wing w ). civilwar no a paraenetick or humble addresse to the parliament and assembly for (not loose, but) christian libertie. the second impression. perused and williams, roger f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - aptara rekeyed and resubmitted - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a paraenetick or humble addresse to the parliament and assembly for ( not loose , but ) christian libertie . the second impression . perused and allowed according to order . london : printed by matthew simmons for henry overton in popes-head-alley . . a paraenetick , or humble addresse to the parliament and assembly for ( not loose , but ) christian libertie . there have been many nayles and goades sharpened in this argument , by masters of the assemblies , if there were but a steady hand to drive them home , and fasten them . the lord fasten them by his spirit , in the hearts of all whom they concerne , of all before whom now lyes an opportunitie of killing and making alive , that yee doe not now put out that onely coale that is left to us , ( after all our sufferings and privations ) our christian libertie . how have wee promised our selves ( not in the least diffiding the reasonablenesse of such an expectation ) that though wee did eat the bread of affliction , and drink the water of adversitie , yet our eyes should see our teachers , and they should no more be thrust into corners ? and if this hope faile us , wee are of all men most miserable . had wee not better , if wee had looked at our selves onely , and not at the common cause , while wee had something , to have betaken our selves into some remote iland ; then after the losse of all to have it set on the score of a mercy and kindnes to us , to be quietly dismist thither ? wherein wee should finde it ( for wee already feele the workings of it ) no small aggravation of our affliction , the con●ideration of those from whose faces we flee . if it were an enemy , ( deare friends and bre●hren ) if it were the bishops doings , wee should not marvaile , we could better beare it ; but what , you , our brethren , our companions once in the same iron yoke and furn●ce of affliction , ( the dearest remembrance that can be ) that 〈…〉 and fasted t●gether in corners , that have s●te and wept t●gether by the rivers of b●bylon , remembring sion ; and hanged our 〈◊〉 upon the willowes , bemoaning our selves oft to one another ; and are the same men still both for religion toward god , and affection toward you ! o tell it not in g●th , publish it not in askelon , lest the p●ilistims rejoy●e , and the daughter of the uncircum●ised triumph . let not malignants heare of it , papists and atheists , neutrall protestants , and hollow-hearted professors : and oh that the th●usand y●●res were begun that the devill were shut up too , ( who rather is let loose now ) that there be not joy in hell for the divisions of the brethren ! but seemes it not reasonable to you ( that which seemes so reasonable to christ ) that we who have 〈◊〉 with you , should reigne with you , and that comfort being restored to ierus●l●m , all her 〈◊〉 should have a s●are in it ? or are wee those vassalls alone that now in this yeare of iubilee , must whether wee will or no , have our eares boared ; when all other liberties are vindicated ? is it for that wee have no t●●tullus to plead our cause , or for that wee are few and peaceable , and you may use us how you list ? sure it is not in you to make so ill an use of our good principles ? however , be it knowne to you , 〈◊〉 redeemer is strong , and though he be gone a long journey , yet he will come upon those evill s●rvants , that ( secure through his delay ) fall a beating in stead of feeding their fellow-servants ; he will come in an 〈◊〉 when they ●re not aware , and look not for him ; as he did before your eyes upon the domineering generation of the prelacy . the more you oppresse us , the more wee shall grow . refraine from us therefore ; and let us alone ; for if this counsell , or this work be of men , it will come to n●ught , but if it be of god , yee c●nnot overthrow it , lest haply yee be found ●ighters against god . stand therefore to gods arbitrament . if we build upon the true foundation , with hay and stubble , the d●y shall decl●re it ; for it shall be revealed by fire , and our work shall be burnt , though wee shall be saved . prejudice not your selves further ( brethren ) or your way ▪ for god hath said , * there shall be no destroying be ●st in all his holy mountaine . the beasts of prey come from mount seir , not from mount sion . es●u was rough , hairy , and lordly : iacob was smooth , plaine , and pleasant . is it a forme agreeable to you , to be as that image in nebuchadnezz●●rs vision , that was dreadfull and terrible , having great iron teeth , dev●u●ing ●nd breaking in pieces , and stamping the residue with the feet ? or will you not rather ride on and prosper , because of truth , ●nd righte●usnes●e , ●nd meeknesse ? so should you carry the hearts and votes of all men along with you , but those that are lost . and we trusted wee had seene a hopefull beginning , that wee might have improved to a greater expectation ; when ( besides former expresse incouragements ministred to us by pregnant passages of great note and observation with us in certain declarations or ordinances of parliament , which except need be , we are loath to repeat ) god had lately put it into the heart of the parliament , to consider the just and mercifull accommodation of tender consciences . which makes us the more amazed and astonished at the sudden prejudice wee seeme to have received in their affections , and the varied , yea , contrary aspect both of parliament and assembly upon us , who are no other then wee were before , and have continued in your severall and respective service and assistance , with the same faithfulnesse since as ever : wherein god hath been very mercifull unto us , ( whether it be acknowledged to us or no , it must be acknowledged by us to him ) that hath made us faithfull , and not one instance can be given of the contrary : * and wee lookt for peace , and there 's no good , and for the time of healing , and behold trouble ; yet wee are neither so prophane nor desperate , as ( with esau ) to sell our birth-right for a messe of pottage , nor our hopes in your justice and clemency , for the quiet injoyment of it , for a thing of naught . wee hope this seeming remission and intermission of these counsels of peace in behalfe of us , shall but make them rebound the higher , and run the stronger . and therefore wee cease not to pray for you , ( most just senators ) that god would hide repentance from your eyes ; that the lord that stirr'd up cy●us , darius , and artaxerxes , and wedg'd them in by his powerfull spirit would keep this in the thought and purpose of your heart , till you have brought it to perfection . truly there is a dreadfull opportunity before you of gladding the hearts of thousands , your kindnesse unto whom christ will put upon his own account ; a dreadfull opportunity , i say , if either omitted , or not proportionably improved . let it never be said , yee did run well , who did hinder you ? nay , who can hinder you , or who shall harm you , if you be followers of that that is good ? there is nothing ( under christ ) wanting to make us live quietly by one another , though of severall judgements , whilest wee agree in fundamentals , but your word to bid us do so . is it not time for the lords harbengers and trumpeters , to sound the allarm to the great and dreadfull day of the lord , and to apply your selves now to turn the he●rt of fathers to the children and of the children to the fathers , lest the lord come and smite the earth with a curse ? nay , hath he not sorely smitten us , for not only the neglect , but the contempt of this prescription by a contrary practising , even setting the fathers , the nursing-fathers of the church ( those that should be so ) against their children ? and indeed excuse us , if when wee consider how faire wee were for a good issue of the common troubles of late , when god gave us those many occasions , and those solemne opportunities of praise and thanksgiving , when some can say ( if ever ) they found their hearts then drawn forth in earnest supplications and triumphant expectations of a smooth successe ; and in stead thereof , what an unusuall return we had from the hand of god , contrary to the tenour of his former proceedings , beating back our hopes upon us ? and when we compare this with former the like passages of providence in the like juncture of times ; ( as that ill successe that interrupted the petition ready to be presented at the common-councel against us ) and also compare these with some scriptures , and scripture examples , how god hath made ierus●lem a burthensome s●one , &c. zech. . and how he hath formerly rebuked kings for his peoples sakes , saying , touch not mine anointed , &c. and how hee brought artaxerxes and his realm under wrath for that cause , ezra . and consider how righteous this is , that if the children fall out the father should make the third ; excuse us , i say , if wee can give no better account of these things but the lords jealousie over his peoples liberties ▪ wherefore , if pity will not move you , let equity at least constr●in you : * let no man go beyond or defraud his brother , saith the apostle . have you taken of us a price ? deny us not our commodity ; christ bought our liberties for us with his blood , wee have bought them over again at your hands with our own blood , shed not for our selves only , but for you also . wee have set you down , as it were , where you would be ; wee have dislodged the can●●nites before you , wee are necessitated to passe on further ; it were but your duty to march on before us , and give us quiet possession with you . wee have fought , and adventured purse and person upon this expectation of liberty , ( not of another religion , but ) of this way of walking in your religion ; as of the liberty of the religion it self , which we eyed in the first place ; if nothing lesse was in your hearts , why did you not tell us so ? nay , why hath the assembly born us in hand with such hopes and intimations ? why have such considerations been tendered to us , intimating ; nay , almost assuring us , an after-liberty upon condition of a present modesty in that juncture of time only . for what else is the tenour of the th consideration , published , dec. . . in these words , that it is not to be doubted , but the counsels of the assembly , and the care of the parliament will be , not only to reform and set up religion throughout the nation , but will concur●e to prese●ve wh●t ever shall ●ppe●●e to be the rights of particular congregations , according to the word , and to be●re with such , whose cons●iences ●annot in all things conform to the publike 〈◊〉 , so far as the word of god 〈◊〉 have them born with●ll , which is all that we de●ire . what did you do with those terms , the rights of 〈…〉 and these contradistinguished to the generall reformation an● setting up of religion through the kingdome , if you did not speak to our sense ? but ( you will say ) 't is cautioned , what ever shall appe●●e according to the word . to whom mean ●ou it should appeare ? to your selves ? what promise were this ? to preserve what ever appeares to you , is not grace , but debt ; and if this was your meaning , you might have said more properly , when ever these rights should appeare to you ; and if by [ according to the word ] you meant only , in your own interpretation , that 's not thank-worthy : what bait is held out to us therein , but a miserable collusion ? but the latter part of the consideration is more expresse , which promise a bearing with those whose consciences cannot in all things conform to the publike rule . and what though it follow , so far as the word of god would h●ve them born with●ll ? for that implies a concession , that the word would have them born withall ; otherwise , why do you bob our mouths with these apples of liberty and toleration , and condescend to terms of the measure thereof , if no such thing in any degree be due unto us , or warrantable by word ? why then do you give place to us so much , as for an houre ? and if a toleration duly bounded be divine , then how have you indeavoured it ? or why do you not indeavour that degree ? what jot or tittle of toleration have you yet brought forth , or do you give us hopes of in your proceeding hitherto ? what things more terrible and more void and exclusive of all bearing and forbearing can you meditate yet , then fines , prisons , exi●e , prohibiting the exercise of our w●y and our ministery , but upon hard conditions ; which things we have too much cause to feare and expect , as not much exceeding the rate and proportion of some present conclu●ions , and more menacing agitations . judge now whether the performance of this consideration be not yet wholly in arrere to us . and to minde you of some other passages ; what do you in that earne●t intreating ministers and people ( consid. . ) to forbeare for a convenient time , the joyning themselves into church-societies , untill they see 〈…〉 will not be commended 〈◊〉 them in 〈◊〉 orderly 〈◊〉 ? i say , what do you in this , but set as at liberty afterwards ? and why do you there bespeak us as free-men if you made account ( and it be in your power ) to make us bond-men , or use us so ? and further , why doth the assembly ( in the th c●●sideration ) glance with that congratulatory respect upon the liberty to serve god according to his word , which we injoy in this ti●e , more then hath been at any time in england 〈◊〉 the beginning of the reformation , if it be not a just liberty ? and if it be just , why doth it begin to be contracted ? at least some part of that liberty wee have injoy'd ? viz. preaching without ordination , till wee can have it according to our consciences ? and lastly , do you not cherish as great a hope in us , as all that wee have ask'd , or shall aske , comes to , in the last consideration ; where you pawn your own hopes to cherish ours , that wee shall never come to suffer for doing what shall appeare to be our duty , though not co-incident with the publique rule given us ; where you must mean what shall apeare [ to us ] to be our duty ; for wee cannot feare we shall ever suffer by you for what appeares [ to you ] to be our duty . and how can you be comforters of us in our sufferings , as you are in the sequele of that consideration , if they be not sufferings for righteousnesse sake ? and if they be , how miserable men are you , to be the authors of them ? or do you count it no suffering for all the ministers of this way to be deprived of their livelihoods and opportunities to serve god with their gifts , and their flocks depending on them bereft of their food ? pardon this repetition , it is not done to reproach or upbraid you , but timely to warn and remember you . these were not over forward expressions only dropping casually from some more remisse and neutrall spirits undertaking for you without your warrant ( which you might judge it credulity in us to reckon upon , and injury to challenge you by ) but serious deliberations and conclusions of your own ministred to us by some in the name of you all , not whisper'd in the eare , but published to the world , and to be understood in the proper , plain ▪ and naturall sense of the words and phrases commonly , holding forth to us a bait of timely and seasonable liberty . now your intention herein was either fained , meerly to make us sleep away our opportunity upon the knees of vain promises and hopes , till your cords were twisted , and your bonds upon us ; and so all these passages are but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , empty forms , and shapes , words fill'd with wind , condensed by a sleighty contexture , into a very promising and specious appearance only , which is not to speake the truth in christ , but to be corrupted from the simplicity that is in him : or your intention was reall , as indeed purposing to gratifie and accommodate us after the rule agreed upon for the kingdome ; and so there was reality in your words , which is that alone that honest men will offer , and wise men consider ; and if so , this design was either good or evill : if evill , then it might not be undertaken for the greatest good that could come thereof ; and why do you not retract and repent publikely of giving such hopes in your considerations ? but if it were good and just , why is it not pursued ? whether these do call upon you audibly , being your own words , promises , ingagements , let all indifferent men judge ; but surely our lives spent for you cry aloud for love and mercy to be shewed us from you ; thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the oxe that treadeth out the come : hee that planteth a viney●●d , shall eat of the fruit thereof . doth god take care for oxen ? would hee not have us die in an oxes debt ? and is it meet and congruous his children ( whom he can maintain without being beholding to the world ) should hire out themselves for nothing more then the common , when they fain would , but cannot live upon it ? god forbid all our priviledge should be , that wee shall be last eaten , that when you have done with the more dangerous enemy , you should turn your hand upon us ; shall this foul blot of ingratitude lie upon you ? will you so bury all your fame and glorious achievements in so horrid a pit ? will you so disappoint the expectation of meek souls , who hope for this , as an additionall recompence ( next to the liberties of the kingdome , and of the protestant religion ) for the lives of brethren , husbands , friends lost in the publique service and defence ? how inaccessible soever such cries may be to your eares now through the multitude of your businesses and tumultuousnesse of your tho●ghts for present ; yet sure there will be a dead of the night , when the least noise will be heard ; i had rather say , there will be a morning , when your eyes will be opened , and it will not repent you , the kindnesse you have shewed , and the violence you have forborn to tender consciences . good , my brethren , is your ●leep too sweet unto you , and your beds too soft , and your consciences at too much ease , that you desire to create more trouble ●nto your selves , and to bring the neglected votes of the dead ( sa●red among all ) upon you , who laid down their lives upon no other condition , then liberty , first of the kingdome , then of the conscience in the protestant religion , that they nor you might be inslav'd in eith●r ; would it not shame you , the cry of the widows and orphanes of such persons . do you take away my liberty , restore my husband who died to purchase it for you ? would it not scare you , should the ghosts of those persons that have died in this cause ( those many hundred souls , that while they lived , were laden with the reproach of their consciences , but sufficiently vindicated the worthinesse of their spirits by their doings and ●●fferings so freely , so cheerfully undertaken : ) i say , should they come to your bed-sides and cry , give us our lives againe ; we laid them downe for your liberty , performe the like for us ; or beare the guilt of ingratitude , and injustice ? o should they but tell you the lamentable stories of their warfare , what affections of dearest relations they conflicted withall , and were faine to despise and over-rule with an high hand in their first ingagements , even tearing themselves from wives and children , almost contrary to the apostles rule , and far exceeding the highest dispensation for the most absolute service of prayer and fasting : and what hardship they endured of hunger and cold , and watchings , and wearinesse : what wounds they have sustain'd , what streames of bloud they have lost , what agonies they have been in , and how they have borne downe with a high hand all starting doubts and feares , lest they should not sow a considerable advantage unto themselves in those adventures , and whether or no they should indeed water a crop of ingenuous ( nay christian ) liberty to you and themselves , or their posteritie at least with their bloud : should they tell you , how they have undertaken to their owne misgiving hearts and cautelous spirits , that their labour should not be in vaine , that they should not lose their lives for naught , they did not serve such masters : no , they were confident another pharaoh must arise , before ioseph should be forgotten : should they but tell you , how their faith did put in bayle to their reason , and how this comforted them in all their anguish , and it made their farewell out of this life sweet ; and t was the last prospect or lands●ip of this iland that they saw , they beheld it as the habitation of righteousnesse , the faithfull citie . should they tell you , how ambitious they were of wounds , how prodigall of their bloud , how desirous to dye , that by their death they might make a feast of libertie to their brethren in this particular . and should they from thence fall to this expostulation ; shall wee dye for you , and must not our friends live with you , who are of the same religion with you ? did you send us out to be cut off , and to make a hand of us ? did you slay part of us in the field with the sword of the enemy , that you might the easier suppresse the residue at home ? do you count us no better then to be swords-meat , and to stop the mouthes of canons ? o earth , cover thou not our bloud , the lord behold it and require it . should such a din fill your eares sleeping and waking , what fruit would you have of your violent proceedings ? should you effect your purposes , suppresse our way , and cast forth our persons out of this good land , could you put the price of our bloud into the treasury ? would you have any list to r●●st what you had g●t by such hunting ? would not your stomacks nauseate and turne againe at the raw and bloudy cruelty of the game ? take up , oh take up betimes , know you not that it will be bitternesse in the latter end ? are we not your fellow-servants and brethren ? did not the same hand make us , that made you ? and is there not one father of us both ? one lord , one faith , one baptisme , one religion ? are you the onely rightfull inhabitants of this good countrey ? and is there not a curse denounced against those that lay house to house , and land to land , that they may dwell alone ? doe you stand in no more need of us , or have wee been reprieved till now , onely as the canaanites to help you to master the lyons , & the wild beasts , that they prevaile not against you : brethren , i would to god there were no divisions among us ; i wish it under the imperiall law of heaven , and my hearts desire and prayer for engl●nd is , that they were of one heart , and one way : but is that upon any scripture-ground to be expected here ( at least till those halcyon dayes come ) while we kn●w but in p●rt ? must we never be of one heart , till we be of one way ? then belike those exhortations to love , and peace , and christian forbearance of one another ; and not to judge but to keep the unitie of the spirit , are not visions which the apostles saw for these dayes . the time is not yet , as the jewes said , hag. . but the lord may answer us as he answered them ; is it time for you , o yee to dwell in your ●eiled houses , & c ? so is it time for a you to agree and make your common engagement against any of the lambes of christ , the ground of a renewed friend●hip ? is it a time for papists , atheists , loose and carnall protestants and malignants to agree , laying aside their particular interests , opinions , and differences ? is it a time for french , and spaniards , and danes , and walloones , and irish rebells to agree and make a confederacy with our homeborne vipers against the truth ? and is it not a time for us to agree for the truth ? is it a time for godly able men , that have in a great part renounced the hidden things of antichristian darknes , to agree with ignorant superstitious ceremony-mongers , ( that are devoted still to a common-prayer-booke , and petition for a captain to lead them back into aegypt ) and with the meanest and unworthiest spirits , ( that will but serve the time , and acknowledge their soveraigntie ) as good christians and able ministers , to make their party stronger ? and is it not a time to agree with those that denying themselves , and the world , professe to seek the truth in love . is all truth among one sort of men ? hath not christ rendred his members all in a mutuall need of one another ? * is your way the fulnesse of him th●t fills all in all ? can your refuse-brethren in conference and communication of spirituall gifts , adde nothing to you ? is there not most , oft-times , in things that are most despised ? would christ have such desperate experiments practised upon his members , to kill them , if you cannot cure them of their lesser errours ; to fine them , prison them , banish them , which to some persons and estates , is little more mercy then to knock them on the head ? doth not nature teach to beare with a blain or blemish , rather then to destroy the body ? is christ so put to it , quite out of hope ? may they not be gained hereafter ? are their opinions damnable , either in themselves , or proper consequences ? are they not further ingaged to persist in their wayes good or bad , by suffering for such things so deeply , and is not the bridge of retractation drawne up thereby ? consider these things , and take heed what you doe unto these men ; the lord hath made ierusalem a burdensome stone , that shall crush all that attempt to remove her . if our way be of god , you cannot overthrow it ; you may shew your selves fighters against god , and get the reward of such , and that 's all . take heed of walking contrary unto god , of casting shame on those , on whom he hath reflected such eminent honour , both in the army and otherwise : for i aske you , by whom hath god more deliver'd us hitherto ? who have shewed themselves more valiant in fight ? who have oftner put to flight the armies of the aliens in the north , and els-where , but those men that in the end shall be put to flight themselves , if some may have their will ? the sword of the lord , and despised gideon , hath saved this nation : saul hath slaine his thousands , and david his ten thousands . let no man envy . god will be acknowledged in his instruments , as well as in his attributes . take heed of resisting the holy ghost ; for that mighty works have been done by these men , you cannot deny : their power in prayer , their shining doctrine , their exemplary burning conversation , though wee will not paint the blemishes of any of them . but 〈◊〉 de tabula , i have offer'd my candle ; it is in the lord to proportion the successe : to some it may be a word in season : to others perhaps it will be a 〈◊〉 and a stone of stumbling . 〈◊〉 vineet veritas , truth shall overcome i verily beleeve and expect . the little stone cut out of the mountaine without hands , shall irresistibly grow , and fill the whole earth : and every plant that the he●v●nly father hath not planted , shall be puld up . men may root out themselves by persecution ; as the prelates have done ; but they shall never root up the truth . christian friends and brethren , if the truth be on your side , confide to your cause ; cease from force and violence , that you reflect not disparagement upon it . i would end , as i began , in the spirit of love and meeknesse ; consider your calling brethren , that you are called unto peace ; and take our lord jesus christ for an example , who though he was lord of all , yet became a servant unto all . he was further above his disciples in knowledge and understanding , then the wisest among us above the simplest infant ; yet he disdain'd them not , provoked them not , upbraided them not , punisht them not , taught them as they were able to beare ; after his resurrection comes to them alwayes with this salutation , peace be unto you ; and since his ascension , every epistle brings commendations of grace and peace . consider of what a spirit yee are , and ought to shew , a dove-like spirit , and oh that the voice of this turtle were heard in our land ! were not the nature of my discourse indifferent and generall , i might say somewhat , which might not onely induce liberty , ( as for every way not scandalous ) but also beget a good opinion of the congregationall way in speciall . i will say but this ; a the members of this societie grow up freely unto it ; act freely in it to mutuall comfort and edification ; they meddle with their own things , and are not busie with others , without authoritie from christ : they are ready to advise , and be advised upon every lawfull call and needfull occasion : they count not themselves perfect , but stand ready to receive further light , yea , though from the meanest of the brethren : they aspire to be punctuall , yet they allow many graines to other churches , so they have the substance : they are no otherwise independent , but as they depend more upon christ , and lesse upon men : though their first and immediate ragards be to their own , yet they count themselves debters to all the churches and members of christ : they will doe what good they can to rectifie the mistakes of others that are not of them , but know no remedy but patience , if the truth fall not upon all mens apprehensions : they say not more might not be done or devised to reclaime men from errours , but they say they have commission for no more then they practise , and they dare not say a confederacy with any meanes , with which the lord hath not said a confederacy by his institution : they boast not in their way , as approving it selfe to flesh and bloud , but as a way of faith , justified onely of the children of wisdome , that have learnt to put off their owne understanding and fleshly dependance in the things of god , and to lay the weight of all on christ , who hath given his word for it . lastly , they will communicate in all ordinances with any true church of christ , that walks up to their light , and shews a readines to receive whatsoever more shall be shewed them . now take this way , and compare it with any other , wisely , spiritually and impartially , according to that * rule given by our saviour ; and wee will stand to the issue and arbitrament of it . let that way which rases the foundation of mans glory , and wholly applyes it selfe to the glory of christ the founder , hanging absolutely on him for a word , either expresse or els by consequence , to every thing , and a blessing on every thing they undertake or doe , resolving all into his care of them , and presence among them ; be acknowledged , countenanced , and practised among us , as the way and truth of god , having no unrighteousnesse in it . and let that way which neglecting or denying christs sufficiency of rule and direction , and the promise of his grace and protection , apply themselves to man , to supply them with precepts , and support them with the fleshly arme of numbers and multitudes , of power and authoritie , be discarded as the way of man . and if wee after all our casting and contriving , cannot come to you , see ( if you would not be wanting to this accord which you have so much in your mou●hs ) if you can come to us ; which no question , but all that are godly could most heartily doe , as some of you have exprest in termes upon serious consideration of our way , ( for what is there to offend you , but a further degree of puritie aymed at in the body , the worship being alike in both ? ) and others in termes aequivalent , as that they beleeve it will not cease till it come to this way , which they grant was the primitive way , and is the purest , and the presbyterian way is but a step thereto , and will rest here as its center , and end in this as its perfection . for our parts , wee have waited mannerly all this while , and wee are heartily grieved , that the particulars of difference between us remaine yet so many , nay , that there are any , and especially so important , that we cannot yeeld to you therein . for as he said well , amicus plate , amicus aristoteles , sed magis amica veritas . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- * esay . . * jer. . . * thes. . . a 〈…〉 * which close conjunction & c●menting is made onely by love . men may be of the same judgement , yet-sit very loose frō one another . heads touch like ● globes but in p●●cto . hearts joyne in plano . and make an incorporation of each into other . a the congregationall way characterized . * joh. ● . to both houses of parliament friends, many warnings have you had, time after time ... greene, thomas, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to both houses of parliament friends, many warnings have you had, time after time ... greene, thomas, ?- . england and wales. parliament. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] broadside. caption title. text identical to g . differs only in absence of "sitting at westminster" in title of g a. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. broadsides -- england -- london -- th century - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to both houses of parliament . friends , many warnings have you had , time after time , from those that love the lord , and the prosperity and good of all men , that you would not go about to limit the consciences of people , but that in matters of religion and worship all might be left free , to worship the lord as by truth they are perswaded in their hearts , and not to use violence to any on the account of religion and worship ; therefore from the lord i warn 〈◊〉 , not to meddle with the hearts nor consciences of people , let him have 〈◊〉 supremacy there ; and by you let the sword of justice be laid upon the ●●●●●doers , and be ye a praise to them that do well , for that is your place : there●●●● , as you tender the glory of god , the good of the nations , and your souls ●●●●nal peace , go not about to limit the lord , nor his spirit in his people , that 〈◊〉 should not be led thereby ; neither do you endeavour to make the king to ●●●ak his word , which he hath often solemnly promised , and hath shewed his 〈…〉 d affection unto you to fulfil the same : for if you go about to make him ●●●●k his word , herein you will not honour him , but rather dishonour him , ●●d bring reproach upon your selves . therefore this further know , that if 〈◊〉 go on , and will not let people alone in matters of worship , the hand of the 〈◊〉 will certainly turn against you , and in his fury will he plead with you , ●he line of confusion will he spread over you ; which if you let the con 〈…〉 ces of people alone , then will you have a good esteem in the hearts of all 〈…〉 est people , and by it the peace of the nation may be prolonged : for there nothing outwardly so much prized by people , as the liberty of their consciences 〈◊〉 ●atters of religion ; having that , tribute , taxes and customs are not so much 〈…〉 ed at : but if you will go on , endeavouring by laws to contract people to 〈…〉 way of worship , and leave not the conscience free , you will be the cause of 〈…〉 dling the lord's wrath against you , and of bringing desolation upon you ; 〈◊〉 you are set as in a slippery place , therefore take heed unto the light in our hearts and consciences , which lets you see many times something in you that is contrary to god ; that so by that you may be led to make laws according 〈◊〉 god's witness in every man ; then will you be strong , for the lord will be as your side , and his witness in the hearts of people will plead for you : but on the contrary , if you reject the counsel of the lord , which by his living witness in your consciences you may receive ; which if you turn from , and go 〈◊〉 in cruelty , the lord's hand will turn against you , and you will cut you off this sore displeasure : therefore mind to glorifie the lord , and to honour the king in this matter , or else your enemies will be many ; therefore let the consciences of people alone . and thus in short have i cleared my conscience in the sight of god , as concerning you , whether you hear or forbear . from one who desires the prosperity of all men who love truth , righteousness and peace . thomas green . this th of the th month , . to the rulers and to such as are in authority a true and faithful testimony concerning religion, and the establishment thereof, and how it may be established in persons and in nations / by edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the rulers and to such as are in authority a true and faithful testimony concerning religion, and the establishment thereof, and how it may be established in persons and in nations / by edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . p. printed for thomas simmons ..., london : . reproduction of original in the huntington library. eng society of friends -- apologetic works. church and state -- england. freedom of religion -- england. a r (wing b a). civilwar no to the rulers and to such as are in authority a true and faithful testimony concerning religion, and the establishment thereof, and how it m burrough, edward b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the rulers and to such as are in authority a true and faithful testimony concerning religion , and the establishment thereof , and how it may be established in persons and in nations . by edward bvrrovgh . london , printed for thomas simmons at the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . there hath been a great cry of late years among the priests and many others , for the settlement of religion , and this they have sought after from the powers of the earth , and the cry hath been to parliaments and rulers by the priests and professors for many years , settle us religion , settle us religion . now to this i answer , all this cry and this desire hath been by these priests and professors to have parliaments to make lawes , to establish one sect , and throw down and limit all others , that is the chief thing that hath been eyed in the request , and not simply to have true religion established ; if we come to shew what true religion is in it self . but people of divers sects have been requiring and desireing every one to have their own sect established and set up , and all others thrown down , and not to have a place nor to be tolerated , so that their cry hath not risen from the ground of true love to true religion , but their desire hath chiefly risen and sprung from selfe love to their own sect , and from malice and envy against others that were not of their way , and this hath been the end of their craving the settlement of religion , and not simply for true religions sake . now religion in it selfe is this , the fulfilling of the law and the prophets , loving god with all their hearts and the neighbour as selfe , and doing to all men as they would have men to doe to them , and not otherwise doing or speaking towards any , then they would that others should speak of or doe to them , and a walking towards god in all things , as they have received of his grace , answering to the lord in all things , as his spirit leads them and moves them , this is true religion towards god and towards man , and to have the conscience alwaies kept void of offence , & that no offence lie upon it in the sight of god , nor in the sight of man , and this is true religion in it selfe , in short declared , to wit , the leading of the spirit of god into all truth , to doe the truth , and speak the truth in all things , and this religion is accepted in the sight of god , and to be kept unspotted in the world , from all its pollutions . but now tell me , can this religion be setled , or any nation or people or any person in it , by any external power or outward authority of men ? or can the laws of kings or parliaments settle such religion , or make people truly religious , or establish a nation or people , in this religion ? i say no , nor any thing , save only the teaching and leading of the holy spirit of god being received from the father , it s that onely that makes men religious , and settles a people and nation therein . oh ye fools and blind priests and professors , that are doting on setling religion among unconverted people by out ward lawes and earthly powers of men ; i say no , this must not be , for the lawes of men can but settle a sect , or some sects , and limit other sects ; but true religion can never be setled by that meanes ; for before any be setled in religion they must first be changed and created a new in christ jesus , and borne againe of the seed incorruptable , and they must first be changed from death to life , and from statans power to god ; this must first be witnessed before a man or a nation can be religious , & setled in true religion , he must put off the body of sin , and be circumcised in heart ; and he must have a new nature planted in him , and he planted into christ a new and living vine , before he can love god with all his heart and his neighbour as himselfe , and before he can have his conscience kept void of offence , and be without stain towards god and towards man , and it is onely the word of god and his power in the heart that works this , it is only the operation of gods spirit in and upon a creature that works him unto this , it is not the lawes made by man that doth it , nor externall powers of the earth that can work it , & therefore true religion cannot be setled thereby , nor a nation or a people in it ; but only that which changes him , and makes him religious , that is it onely that must settle religion and nations , and peoples therein ; and as every one is turned to that of god in him , and thereby to feel the power and word and spirit that doth change him , and renew him as i have said , by this means cometh a man and nations to be religious , and to be setled therein , and by no other waies nor meanes , and this is done through the preaching of the everlasting gospell , and through the ministry of christ , which turneth the mindes of people from darknesse to light , and from satans power to god , whereby they are changed and made religious , and also setled therein , and established thereby , and it is not by outward lawes , and powers as i have said . but what are peoples , and the nations yet to settle in religion ? and is religion unsetled yet , that you are craving lawes made by men to settle religion ? what have you preached for this many years ? what , have your preaching been all in vaine ? and have you done no good this many years by your preaching , that religion is yet to settle ? oh blind and ignorant men ! this is a shame unto you , how manie thousands of thousand pounds have the priests had out of this nation for teaching religion , & preaching to people , & yet the nation remains unsetled in religion and they are beging to the powers of the earth , to constrain & compel a settlement of religion , and this shames them , and shews that they are they that paul speakes of , and that the people of this nation are them that are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth , though you have been long learning , you are unsetled , and are not come to the knowledge of the truth : but had these priests been such that were sent of the lord , through their ministry would the nations long since have been setled in religion , for they have been teachers long enough , and put the nation to charge great enough , that people might have known ere this day the holy annointing to dwell in them , and to teach them , and to settle them in religion , but it is manifest that they have ran and not been sent , but left peoples and nations unsetled as the waters , notwithstanding , all their preaching , and ministry for so many years , yet it seemes there wants still a settlement in religion , and seeing their preaching hath had no effect to doe it , but their ministry hath been all in vain , and people are not learned in religion , nor yet established therein , whereby their ministry is proved not to be christs ministry ( for the apostles did setle people , and the churches in religion , which theirs hath done no such thing ) & therefore it is that the powers of the earth are called to , that they may force by violence and by violent laws , that by that means a worship and religion may be setled as they say ; and their ministry hath not drawn people by love , and therefore would they have people forced and compelled to be of such or such religion but this is not christs way , nor the way that his apostles and true churches were in ; for the spirit of the father led each one of them , to be religious , and that same spirit setled and established them in it , and not external laws nor powers of the earth , but that was antichrists way , and the beasts and the false prophets way , for when they had killed the saints , and slain true religion , then the beast and false prophets they established a religion or worship by outward lawes ; and it s written , that he caused and compelled all , both small and great , bond and free , to worship the beast and his image ; and here was a setled people in a religion and worship by an outward compelling power . and thus it was then and is now the same , false churches and false religions are setled by an outward authority ; and it was nebuchadnezzar and his wicked princes that setled a religion or worship by an outward power & by an earthly authority , but that was not the worship of true religion , but was the worship of antichrist , and so it hath been for ages ; that worship that is setled , and that religion which is established by an outward external power and the lawes of men , is but the worship of antichrist , and not the true religion , nor the worship of the living god , which is in spirit and in truth , but it must all be overthrown and brought to nought , both that religion and worship that is out of the spirit , and that power that upholds it , and now the lord god is risen to confound the thoughts of mens hearts , and he alone will setle and establish religion by his own power and by his own law , and through his own ministry , and as people comes to that of god in them , to feel the spirit and power of the lord god to change them ; hereby will every one particularly be setled in religion , and by no other way nor means ; and this i know from the lord . but how should people be setled in religion ? for peoples and nations have been and are as waters , which hath been driven with the winds , this way or the other way , and the great whore sits upon the waters , and the beast hath carried her and born her up , ( false worships and churches and an outward power ) and she hath ruled and made all nations drunk with her cup of fornication , and the true religion hath been lost for many ages , and the sects and false churches hath been set up and established upon the waters ; and as for true religion , it cannot be established while nations are waters under the whores dominion , and so the many sects which hath been the many horns upon the beast , and one hath risen after another , and one diverse from another , and they have been striving one with another , and persecuting one another , and one subduing one another , and each one of them hath cryed for help from the beast , and from the powers of the earth , to be defended from the power and malice one of another , least one should prevail against another , and get the better one of another ; and so that sect that could get authority from the powers of the earth , and have them of its side , that sect hath thriven , and hath been setled more then another which hath not gotten the powers of the earth to defend it ; and so as the powers of the earth hath been changeable , so hath religion been changeable ; and what sect the rulers hath been on , that have they highest tollerated , and most defended against all other ; but all this hath not been the true establishment of true religon . but now some may suppose and query , whither i speak this as if i would have religion not at all setled , and as if i were against the establishing of religion , and so thereby may be accused , as if i were an enemy to all religion , and would not have religion established , &c. to all this i answer , i am a friend to true religion , and seekes the establishing of it in the right way , and by the ministery of righteousness , by turning peoples minds to the spirit , and to receive the anointing that they may be all taught of god , and true worshippers of him in spirit and truth , and may be setled in the true religion ; and this true religion would i have established in the world , and in the nations and would have all people therein established by the ministry of righteousness thereunto ordained . but i am against the establishing of sects , and the setling of one sect above another , by the powers of the earth , and i would not have one set up and another thrown down by the laws of men , for that brings forth nothing but tyranny , and oppression , and strife , and wickedness in a nation , and among people ; though thus it hath been for many ages , false sects and false churches hath been established by the powers of the earth and external laws , and that sect which the king or queen , or ruler hath been of , that hath been set up and tollerated above the rest , and the rest despised , and persecuted and set at nought ; for when and where a prince or a ruler is of the papists religion , then that religion is the most established and setled in that goverment ; and if at any time a ruler change to be of the protestant sect , or one come to govern that is of that religion , then that sect was the most established and upheld , thus it is through nations , and in england particularly within these late years , when king henry the eighth turned from the papists to be a protestant , then that sect was established , and all other thrown down and persecuted ; and when queen mary rose to govern , which was a papist , then she established that sect and false church , by laws , and the rest were limited and thrown down ; then when the next queen arose being a protestant , she established that sect again by outward laws , and cast all others down , and thus it hath been for many ages throughout all nations , of what sect and religion the governor and ruler hath been , that sect was onely established and all the rest persecuted as i have said , and so the saying is fulfilled , nations hath been waters , and peoples and multitudes waters ; and as a king and governour hath changed his religion and of what sect as he hath been , so hath the religion of the whole nation or country changed , and such a sect onely established against all others ; but this i cannot call the setlement of true religion , nor are the nations and peoples hereby established in true religion , but onely false sects and false religions hath risen and been established by the beasts power , who hath carried the whore , yea and though many other sects , hath risen , and many other horns appeared divers one from another , out of the many heads of the beast ; for his heads hath been many , and his horns devided , and divers one from another , and each head exalting his self above another , and each horn pushing one at another , and each sect and horn crying to the beast for power to be established , and to have others thrown down and limited , through the powers of the earth , and thus hath it been for generations , and in this nation in particular , and many sects hath risen besides the papists and the protestants and all these sects hath risen one out of another , & appeared divers one from another , and each one of them hath sought to the powers of the earth for setlement and defence , & that the other that were contrary to them and of another appearance might be stopt and limited , and this hath been done by these teachers and professors under the account of the establishment of religion , and they have begged to parliaments and to rulers for the establishment of religion , and for the stopping of heresie , that is to say , for tollerating and defending of their own sect which they call religion , and for the stopping and subduing of all others which they call heresie , but confusion hath come upon all this , and will upon the like for ever , and true religion never gets established by it , but as every new sect hath appeared , that only hath sought establishment against all the rest . but yet i say , i am not against establishing of true religion , though thus i speak , but would have true religion setled and established , but doth not seek to the powers of the earth , to have true religion established by earthly lawes ; for that cannot establish true religion , neither is it at all committed of the lord to the powers of the earth , or to outward authorities to establish religion , or to make men religious ; for that belongs to the lord to rule over , and in mens consciences , & to exercise them in the true religion : no ruler by any law whatsoever ought to exercise lordship over the consciences of any people , either to exalt or throw down any sect , or worship of religion ; for they are with their lawes but to rule the outward man , to settle their persons and estates in security , from the wrong and unrighteous dealing of wicked men , and to limit all evill men and evil doers from wronging and doing violence to mens persons and estates ; this is the work , and the place of kings and rulers of the earth , their power is onely committed to them of the lord to extend over the outward man , to defend and preserve that , and be a praise to all that do well and lives righteously , and to be a terror , and limit , and punishers of the unrighteous evil and violent doers , this is the magistrates place , and the length and breadth & height of his authority , whether it reside in king , queen or any other person or persons . but for the exercise of conscience , that is out of their power , and over and beyond it , it is not committed of the lord to them to compel and cause people from , or to such a worship and religion , it is not the magistrates worke , but the ministers work , that are sent of christ to teach religion ; but let all sects have their course , and every religion its liberty in a nation or country ( so that they doe no violence to one anothers persons and estates ) and if they do , then they fall under the magistrates power , and then let them be punished , and let every sect strive to exalt it selfe , and to overthrow others , by what authority it hath in doctrine and forceable arguments , and let them use what spiritual weapons they have , and defend themselves thereby , and let them that have the spirit of god overcome , and let them alone to be established , and let all the rest be subdued before that , and let that alone be setled onely by the power and authority of the spirit of god , which overcomes all the contrary ; and let all men , and all of mans power and authority be silent and quiet , and have no hand in this matter , and this is the way to establish religion in a nation ; and a kingdome , let the spirit of the lord have its liberty , and let no man whatsoever limit it in them in whom it dwels , but let it have its course and its operation , and its full authority by them in whom it dwels , in whomsoever it be ; and let all sects whatsoever have their liberty — in their arguments , and their practices , and their worship , and then let it be manifest , who it is that overcomes , and who it is that is overcome ; and such as overcometh by the same spirit & power that gives them victory , by that alone let true religion be established , and the rest of all sects bow under that true religion that overcometh all others by the power and authority of the spirit of god , and is established thereby ; all other under that shall bow , and whilst this is in tryal and debate , let the powers of the earth , and the rulers of the world be all quiet , and looke on in patience , and let their authority herein be exercised , not to limit one , or tollerate one more then an other , onely let them keep mens persons and estates in peace and defence from the injury and malice and wrong dealing one of another , as i have said , and here is the way , the true and perfect way , for the establishing of religion in a nation among people , and if this were brought to passe , and had been in generations past , then would not the papists have been prevailed against by the protestants , they being at the first discenting from the church and sect of the papist , more sincere towards god , and more upright to him , and in some things more true in doctrine and worship , then the other which they discented from , though still in the main but a false sect , and of a false religion , though they hated the whore in some things , and they would have prevailed against her through that sincericy towards god , that was in them , but they gave their power to the beast ; and would not many other sects have prevailed against them , which hath risen out of this , and discented from her , who was more in the sincerity and uprightnesse towards god , than she ? for god blessed that and loved that , in what measure so ever and wheresoever it be ; i say , would not many sects ere this day have prevailed one against another , had not the powers of the earth stopped , and limited whom they would , and given liberty to set up whom they would ? but now the light of the day is arisen , and hath appeared , and the lord is making a way to establish his own religion by his own power , and he is gathering his seed , who shall wax stronger and stronger , and shall prevail through all opposition , through all false sects and false worships of the earth , and they shall wax weaker and weaker , and shall never be established in righteousnesse , but they and the power that upholds them shall be broken together , and this will the lord bring to passe in his day ; and thus i have shewed you what true religion is , and how it cann●● be established , and how it may be , & what the authority of earthly rulers is , and how far it extends , and doth shew that true religion cannot be setled thereby , but by the lord alone it must , and that it is the worke of christs ministery , and not of earthly power by violent lawes to establish religion . and this is a testimony from the lord god of heaven and earth to ye rulers , and parliaments that makes laws and ministers laws ; meddle not with religion , to establish one sect or sects , and to limit and throw down others ; but feare the lord god , and wait for his wisdome , and remember that that hath been a rock , whereupon many before you have been split , and brought into confusion ; even when they have gone about to limit or stop or establish religion , how have they been confounded , and never had successe from the lord to such indeavours , for the lord hath never shewed countenance for many generations to such as have attempted to make men religious by outward laws , and to settle nations therein by outward lawes . wherefore now be wise ye rulers and kisse the son , for the wrath of the lord is already kindled , and he will break in pieces and dash babylons children against the stones , and confound the great whore , ( the false church ) and all false sects , her daughters who hath been brought forth , and set up in nations ever since the woman , ( the true church ) hath been fled into the wildernesse , and the beast hath carryed the whore , born her , and upheld her , and she hath journeyed through nations upon the beast , and the beast hath defended her ; if any man hath an eare let him heare ; and this is a visitation to ye rulers , and to all that make lawes , and ministers laws , by a friend to righteous men , edward burrough . the end . the opinion is this, that resistance may be vsed, in case our religion and rights should be invaded johnson, samuel, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing j estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the opinion is this, that resistance may be vsed, in case our religion and rights should be invaded johnson, samuel, - . p. printed for j. watts ..., london : . caption title. attributed to samuel johnson. cf. blc. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- early works to . church and state -- england -- early works to . great britain -- politics and government -- - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread - tcp staff (michigan) text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the opinion is this : that resistance may be vsed , in case our religion and rights should be invaded . the arguments against it , are these : first , that the christian religion doth plainly forbid the resistance of authority . [ quaere , who has authority to invade the established religion and rights of the nation ? is any one impowered by the laws to invade the laws ? ] secondly , that though our religion be established by law , which makes a difference between our case and that of the primitive christians , yet in the same law which establishes our religion , it is declared , that it is not lawful , upon any pretence whatsoever , to take up arms against the king or any commissioned by him . [ neither doth this reach the question , for the king can do no wrong , nor in the second place , can he commissionate any person to invade the established religion and rights of the kingdom ; for a commission of that kind is not a commission in law , it is null , and void , and nothing . ] besides that , there is a particular law , declaring the power of the militia to be solely in the king. [ to do what ? to invade the established religion and rights of the kingdom ? if you read the whole act you will find the direct contrary . ] and that tyes the hands of subjects , though the law of nature , and the general rules of scripture had left us at liberty ; which i believe they do not , because the government and peace of humane society could not well subsist upon these terms . [ as if the established religion and rights of a nation , which are the very ends of government and of humane society , were best secured by being laid open to invasion , and exposed for a prey . ] thirdly , this opinion is contrary to the declared doctrine of all protestant churches ; and though some particular persons have taught otherwise , yet they have been contradicted herein , and condemned for it by the generality of protestants . whereas the following testimonies will prove it to be no singular opinion , but held by the most eminent protestants both at home and abroad : and they give such reasons for their opinion , as may at least excuse those persons who are of the same perswasion , till such time as those arguments are answered , as well as the opinion condemned . to begin with luther , with whom the papists say untruly our religion began , but who was indeed a person , whom it pleased god to make the great restorer of religion to this last age of the world. sleidan not only tells us , that he was of this opinion , but likewise how he came to be of it , when he had formerly held the contrary . the words are these : sleid. com. lib. . prius quàm foedus iniretur , in concilium adhibiti fuerunt non iureconsulti modo , sed theologi quoque● lutherus semper docuerat magistratui non esse resistendum , & extabat ejus h●● de re libellus : cùm autem in hâc deliberatione periti juris docerent legibus esse permissum , resistere nonnunquam , & nunc in eum casum , de quo leges inter alia mentionem faciant , rem esse deductam ostenderent , lutherus ingenuè prositetur , se nescivisse hoc licere : et quia leges politicas evangelium non impugnet aut aboleat , uti semper docuerit , deinde , quoniam hoc tempore tam dubio tamque formidoloso multa possint accidere , sic ut non modo jus ipsum sed conscientiae quoque vis atque necessitas arma nobis porrigat , defensionis cau●à foedus iniri posse dicit , sive caesar ipse , sive quis alius fortè bellum ejus nomine faciat . edito quoque scripto primum explicat , quàm fuerint in augustae comitiis obstinati pontificii , deinde monet in universum omnes , ne magistratui ad ejusmodi bellum imperanti militiam obtemperent . doctrinae verò pontificiae complures & gravissimos quidem recenset errores , quos ait ab illis propugnatum 〈◊〉 qui se castris illis adjungunt : quà quidem in re summum nefas inesse dicit : quanta sit etiam lux illata mentibus hominum hoc tempore per evangelii cognitionem demonstrat , & à tam impii belli societate temperandum esse docet . in english thus : before the princes and cities entered into an association , they took the advice not only of lawyers , but of divines also . now luther had always taught , that the magistrate might not be resisted , and there was a little book of his extant upon that subject . but when the lawyers in this consultation shewed , that resistance was allowed by the laws in some cases , and made it appear that the present case was one of those whereof the laws made mention , luther ingeniously professed , that he did not know the lawfulness of it before , and now said , that being the gospel doth not bar nor abolish the laws of the state , as he had always taught ; and furthermore , because in this uncertain and dangerous time many things might so happen , that not only matter of right , but also the force and necessity of conscience might occasion us to arm ; therefore an association might be entered into , to defend our selves , in case caesar himself should make war upon us , or any one else in caesar's name . he put forth a book likewise , wherein he first shewed how obstinate the papists were in the diet at auspurgh , and then warned all men in general that they should not obey the magistrate , if he raised the militia for such a war. he reckoned up very many and very gross errors of popery , to shew those who sided with the emperour , what things they would fight for , and consequently how great a wickedness it was : he shewed how much more light than formerly men now had by the knowledge of the gospel , and that they ought not to engage in so wicked a war. there were seven princes , and twenty four protestant cities , which entered into this association , some of whose arguments and reasons for it , we have upon record , in the following books of the same historian . the saxon and the lan●grave in their declaration , september , which was in answer to the emperours , from his camp at ingolstadt , have these words : sleid. com. l. . quid caesari debeant principes , quid invicem ipse praestare deb●at , abunde nobis constat : ut nos illi , sic ipse vicissim nobis obligatus est : quod autem indictae causâ nos proscribit & omnibus possessionibus dejicere conatur , in eo juris vinculum dissolvit , quo clienti seu beneficiario devinctus est invicem patronus . iam quod rebellionem nobis objicit , nihil est , & scit ipse , nobis injuriam fieri . we know very well what duty the princes owe to the emperour , and what on the other side he himself ought to perform : we are mutually bound to one another . now because he proscribes us without any process of law , and endeavours to throw us out of all our possessions , in so doing he breaks that bond of the law , whereby a lord and his client or beneficiary are bound to each other . as for his charging us with rebellion , there is nothing at all in it , and he knows in his conscience that we are wronged . and presently after , quod si pactis stetisset atque decretis , nos etiam nostrum officium eramus facturi : sed quoniam ea violavit , & verò praecipua debetur deo obedientia , sibi culpam ipse tribuat . etenim quia religioni molitur exitium atque libertati , causam praebet , cur ipsum oppugnemus bon● conscientià . cum enim in eum casum res devénit , licet resistere , sicut & sacris & prophanis historiis demonstrari potest . nam injusta vis minime deum habet authorem ; nec alia ratione sumus ei devincti , quam si conditiones , quibus est creatus caesar , impleat . now if he had stood to his former compacts and decrees , we also should have done our duty ; but because he has broken them , and besides , our obedience is due to god in the first place , let him lay the blame upon himself . for being he endeavours the destruction of our religion and liberty , he gives us cause to oppose him with a good conscience . for in that case it is lawful to resist , as may be made appear both from sacred and prophane history . for unjust violence is by no means the ordinance of god ; neither are we any otherwise bound to him , than upon performance of the conditions , upon which he was made emperour . the city of magdeburg likewise in their writing , march , and the ministers in april , to the same purpose , sleid. com. l. . primo docent , neque divino neque humano jure se posse convinci rebellionis . postea demonstrant eos , qui contra se sumunt arma , bellum ipsi christo facere , &c. deinde facilè quivi● intelligit , quàm non liceat vim nobis inferre . they first shew , that they could not be proved guilty of rebellion either by the law of god , or the law of man. then they demonstrate , that those who took up arms against them , made war upon christ himself , &c. and afterwards they say , every body easily understands , how utterly unlawful it is to offer any violence to us . so much for luther himself and the league or association , which comprehended most , if not all the churches of that denomination . and melancthon often inculcates all over his writings the same maxime of luther , which indeed was st. chrysostom's before them both : that the gospel doth not bar the laws of the state ; that it does not erect a new government , but leaves the government as it found it . and therefore where the laws and constitution of a government allow of a defence , the gospel does so too . and in his commentary on the proverbs , upon those words of solomon , prov , . ● , . my son , fear thou the lord and the king , and meddle not with them that are given to change , ( that is , joyn not with them who would change our religion or government ) for their calamity shall rise suddenly , and who knoweth the ruine of them both ? he writes thus : concedit autem evangelium uti legibus politicis cum ratione congruentibus . im● si talis defensio non esset concessa , transformaretur evangelium in doctrinam politicam , & stabiliret infinitam tyrannidem . the gospel allows us to make use of politick laws which are reasonable . nay , if a lawful defence were not allowed by the gospel , the gospel it self would be transformed into a state-doctrine , and would establish infinite tyranny . or , as he says in another place , it would command infinite slavery , which it does not . non constituit evangelium novas politias , quare nec infinitam servitutem praecipit . artic. symbol . nicen. sub quaest. hic autem quaeritur , utrùm armis reprimendi sunt tyranni , praecipientes ut faciamus contra mandata dei ? in his common places under the title vindicta , upon those words of our saviour , he that takes the sword , shall perish by the sword. he says thus : accipere gladium , est non datum à legibus stringere . ergo qui vim injustam infert accipit gladium , è contra verò qui justâ defensione utitur , non accipit gladium , sed stringit datum à legibus . for a man to take the sword , is to draw it when it is not put into his hands by the laws . therefore he who offers unjust violence , takes the sword ; but on the other hand , he who uses a just defence , does not take the sword , but he draws a sword which the laws put into his hands . and to name no more places , in his commentary on the rom. upon those words , wherefore ye must needs be subject , not only for wrath , but also for conscience sake . neque vero haec tantum pertinent ad subditos , sed etiam ad magistratum , qui cum ●iunt tyranni , non minùs dissipant ordinationem dei quàm seditiosi . ideo & ipsorum conscientia sit rea , quia non obediunt ordinationi dei , id est , legibus , quibus parere debent . ideo comminationes hic positae etiam ad ipsos pertinent . itaque hujus mandati severitas moveat omnes , ne violationem politici status putent esse leve peccatum . neither do these words only concern the subject , but also the magistra●es themselves , who when they turn tyrants , do overthrow the ordinance of god no less than the seditious . and therefore their consciences are guilty too , because they obey not the ordinance of god , that is , the laws , which they ought to obey . therefore the threa●●ings which are here set down , do pertain likewise to them . let all persons therefore be moved , by the severity of this command , not to think the violation of the constitution , to be a light sin. and when i have quoted zuinglius too , i have quoted the three first reformers . he therefore in his pious and friendly admonition to the republick of the switzers , discourses much of his country's throwing off the yoke of oppression , and reckons that st. paul was of the same mind , when he says , but if thou mayest be made free , use it rather ; which eternal counsel of god , our valiant ancestors following , with undaunted courage , were blessed with wonderful successes , &c. pia. & amica parensis ad suitensium remp. p. . quo animo ipsum quoque paulum dicere existimo , si potes liber ●ieri , ●tere potius , cor. . quod aeternum dei consilium patres nostri fortissimi viri infracto animo secuti , miris victoriarum successibus , ut sempachii nevellis , &c. et paulo supra , ipse dominus libertatis author existit , & honestam libertatem quaerentibus praesto est . but in his opus articulorum , art. , , . he is the coldest comforter , if not the most merciless insulter , in the world , over a people that lies under oppression : for he will not suffer them to complain . he says , they deserve what they suffer , and a great deal more ; they have no wrong done them ; and he bids them perish with their oppressor . they that list may see the place ; where , amongst other things , they will find he says , that the dreadful plagues that followed the iews , ier. . , . upon account of the wickedness of manasseth , and the bloud which he shed in ierusalem , were most just punishments , and deservedly inflicted upon that people , because they suffered him to do it , &c. it was the misery of most of the protestants in other countries , as well as those in germany , in the beginning of their reformation , to fall under oppression ; particularly the french , scotch , and dutch protestants : and it is well known they all defended themselves , and used resistance ; which in scotland ended in an established reformation ; in holland , ended in an absolute freedom both from the popish and spanish yoke ; and in france , ended in a free exercise of their religion , but was soon interrupted by the true popish faith , and friendship of a massacre , so that they were forced to fight all over again . i desire that it may be observed , that neither these germans , scotch , dutch , nor french , in their first war , ever pretended that their religion was established by law , and thereby made a part of the government of their country , which men by their allegeance are bound to defend ; but they used resistance to repel the violence which was done only to their civil rights , and to the native liberty of their consciences . it were foolish impertinence to cite the authorities of those that were engaged in this resistance ; and it were endless to cite all the forreign divines who lookt on , and applauded it , and called it the lord's battles : i suppose it will be more for every bodies satisfaction , to see what our own bishops say to it , and whether they will own those men for protestants , who were engaged in such proceedings : for which purpose i shall set down the words of three of them , bishop iewell , bishop bilson , and robert abbot , bishop of salisbury , men famous in this church . bishop iewel , in the defence of his apology , p. . hath these words : neither doth any of all these ( luther , melancthon , &c. ) te●●● the people to rebal against their printe , but only to defend themselves by all lawful means against oppression , as did david against king saul : so do the nobles in france at this day : they seek not to kill , but to save their own lives , as they have protested by publick writing to the world. as for us , we are strangers unto their case ; they themselves are best acquainted with the laws and constitutions of their country ; and therefore are best able to yield account of the grounds and reasons of their doings . bishop bilson , in his book of the true difference betwixt christian subjection , and unchristian rebellion , dedicated to queen elizabeth , being a dialogue between theophilus a christian , and philander a jesuit , ( so that jesuits did not go for christians in those days ) does justifie that defence which both the french and dutch made , upon supposition that it was according to the laws and constitution of their country , and permitted by them . says the jesuit , what their laws permit , i know not ; i am sure in the mean time they resist . theoph. and we , because we do not exactly know what their laws permit , see no reason to condemn their doings , without hearing their answer . phil. think you their laws permit them to rebel ? theoph. i busie not myself in other mens commonwealths , as you do ; neither will i rashly pronounce all that resist to be rebels : cases may fall out , even in christian kingdoms , where the people may plead their right against the prince , and not be charged with rebellion . phil. as when , for example ? theoph. if a prince should go about to subject his kingdom to a forreign realm , or change the form of the common-wealth from imperie to tyranny , or neglect the laws established by common consent of prince and people , to execute his own pleasure : in these , and other cases which might be named , if the nobles and commons joyn together , to defend their ancient and accustomed liberties , regiment , and laws , they may not well be counted rebels . phil. you denied that , even now , when i did urge it . theoph. i denied that bishops had authority to prescribe conditions to kings , when they crowned them : but i never denied that the people might preserve the foundation , freedom , and form of their commonwealth , which they foreprised when they first consented to have a king. bishop abbot , in his demonstratio antichristi , dedicated to king iames , being an answer to bellarmine , has a large discourse about this matter . the occasion of it is this , persecution of the godly being one mark of antichrist ; bellarmine endeavours to shew , that this mark did not belong to the pope , nor church of rome , because they were not guilty of persecuting , tho' there were then fresh instances of their persecuting in holland , in the paris massacre , and other slaughters of the protestants . but says bishop abbot to bellarmine , cap. . sect. . you think you have wiped away all that bloud with one word speaking , and by only saying , that the protestants did not fall by a persecution , but by a civil war ; and that many more of the papists were slain 〈◊〉 than the inquisitors had burned , perhaps in an hundred years . nevertheless the bishop still charges this bloud upon the papists , because the protestants entred into this war meerly for their own defence : in which , says he , if some of the papists perished , how can they be accounted any other than the authors both of their own death , and of the death of their country-men too , being they took up arms , either by the unjust vsurpation of their princes , or by the lust of some factious men , against the publick faith , against edicts and covenants , against the rights of their own country , against the prerogatives of the nobles , against the franchises and priviledges of towns and cities ? sect. . hic vero politica res agitur , quid principi juris per leges , cujusque republicae fundatrices promissum sit ; utrum potestatem habeat infinita● & nullo limite conclusam ; an vero moderatam & sive optimatum sive populi arbitrio magis minusve temperatam . romanus imperator mero & absoluto imperio gentibus praesidebat , arbitrio suo jubebat omnia , leges scripsit & rescripsit , summam vitae necisque potestatem habuit . quare nullo praetextu christiani poterant vim illorum temporum arcere , vel injurias prohibere quibus vexati sunt . illarum vero nationum principes quas commemoras , certos sibi fines constitutos habent ; quibus ubi excedunt , licere sibi sentiunt optimates vim injustam depellere , & iugum excutere , quo per nefas & contra leges oppressi sunt . cujus rei controvers●a non a religione tantummodo , sed ab aliis politicis negotiis exorta est . itaque rex hispanus , qui non nisi conventione & pacto principatum habuit provinciarum belgicarum , ubi pacto stare desisteret , & contra datam fidem superbe ageret , ipse se exuisse principatu illo putabatur , ut nihil causae esset provinci●s illis , quo minus se tu●ri armis , & ambitiosam tyrannidem avertere liceret . galliarum rex majestatem habet regni multo majorem , cui tamen pro lege est , bodin . meth. hist. cap. . principem contra leges nihil posse , & rescriptis● ejus rationem nullam haberi debere , nisi aequitati perinde ac veritati consentanea sint . porro est etiam proceribus reliquisque ordinibus suus honor & dignitas , quam regi violare nefas est . quam quùm non ita pridem senserunt heroes regni illius novorum quorundam hominum factione gravissimè laesam qui sub obtentu religionis ambitioni suae servientes , insano furore coelum terrae miscerent , & lamentabilem totius regni calamitatem minitari viderentur ( quippe omnia pro arbitrio suo facta infecta , rata irrita esse jubentes , & edicta publico jure pro conservanda pace promu●gata , libitu suo frustrari non dubitantes ) ceperunt illi quidem arma pro regis & regni suâque omnium libertate vindicandâ , nec ferendum sibi putarunt , ut armata contra leges paucorum hominum insolentia , leges divinas simul & humanas intollerabili audacia proculearet . pugnarunt ergo pro jure suo , non aliquo ecclesiae privilegio , quo illa sibi integrum putet armis se defendere , sed politicâ libertate , qua citra injuriam principis , erdinem suum legibus constitutum adversus hostes conjuratos , non inferendo bellum sed populsando tueri licebar . atque in hoc causa eorum a veteris ecclesiae ratione distinguenda est , quae absque ullo juris sui titulo , mero imperii placito subjacebat . quamdiu vero ita se res habuit , caedebantur , ut tu dicis , christiani , non caedebant ; qui tamen sub constantino principe , jure publico armati , non tam caedebantur quam caedebant , & profligatis tyrannis & licinio , iugum persecutionis a cervicibus ecclesiae depulerunt . pari ratione ecclesia nostra , cum longo tempore sub antichristo , nullis secularibus praesidiis adjuta , duram servitutem serviisset , postquam ex illis fluctibus , miserante deo , eluctari jam & emergere caepisset , & legum aliquod praesidium stantibus ab illa principibus & optimatibus obtimusse● , caepit catenùs uti viribus suis & armata manu munitam edictis & legibus & privilegiis ab importuna tyrannorum oppressione vindicare . quare principes galliae quorum interfuit providere ne publica libertas per injuriam opprimeretur , neve quae lege sancta esse debebant , surreptitiorum quorundam libidine pro irritis & nullis haberentur ( qui usque adeo hostes republicae comperti sunt , ut signiferum illius seditionis ducem guisium rex ipse henricus , & si religione cum eo consentiens , quia judicio agere non posset , repentino impetu confodiendum curaret ) bello injustam illam violentiam repellendam , & ecclesiam non nisi juste armatam , pro ea quam lege habebat libertate conservanda , in aciem educendam censuerunt : ubi qui de tuis partibus , bellarmine , ceciderunt , non injuria persecutionis , sed justissimae defensionis impetu perierunt . but here we are fallen into a political question , how much authority over the subjects was promised to the prince by the fundamental laws of every state ; whether he have a boundless and unlimited power , or whether it be measured and adjusted , and more or less mixed with the power and authority of the peers or people ? the government of the roman emperours heretosore was absolute and unmixed , they governed all at pleasure , they made laws , and they unmade them again , and had the soveraign power of life and death : for which reason the christians could with no pretence resist the violence of those times , or defend themselves against the wrongs which were done to them . but the princes of those countries which you speak of , have certain bounds set them , which when they pass , the nobles think it lawful for them to repel their unjust violence , and to shake off the yoke wherewith they are wickedly and illegally oppressed . and thus the king of spain , who had the government of the netherlands , only upon composition and compact , when he did no longer stand to his compact , and acted insolently , contrary to the faith which he had given , was thought to have devested himself of that government ; so that there was no reason , why those provinces might not lawfully defend themselves with arms , and get rid of an ambitious tyranny . the king of france is much more absolute , nevertheless this serves for a law to him , that the prince can do nothing contrary to law , and that his edicts ought not to be regarded , unless they be agreeable to equity as well as truth . besides , the peers and the rest of the estates have an honour and dignity belonging to them , which the king himself cannot violate : which , when the nobles of that kingdom were sensible was deeply wounded , by a faction of some upstart men , who served their own ambition , under a cloak of religion , turned all things upside down , and seemed to threaten miserable calamity to the whole kingdom , truly they took up arms to vindicate the king's and kingdom 's , and all their own liberties , and thought it not fit to be endured , that the insolence of a few men , which was armed against the laws , should trample upon all laws , both divine and humane , with unsufferable boldness . they fought therefore for their own right , not by any priviledge which the church has to defend itself with arms , but by their civil liberty , whereby , without any wrong to the prince , it was lawful for them in a way of defence , to maintain their legal establishment against their sworn enemies . and herein their case differed from that of the primitive church , which was subject to absolute imperial will and pleasure , without any title to rights of its own . now , while their condition continu'd thus , the christians , as you say , were killed , but did not kill ; notwithstanding , when under constantine the emperour , they were armed with a publick right , they were rather for killing than being killed ; and having vanquished several usurpers , and licinius the emperour , they threw off the yoke of persecution from the neck of the church . in like manner our church , when she had for a long time undergone an hard bondage under antichrist , having had no secular protection at all ; after she had begun , by the mercy of god , to get above water , and to rise from under those waves of oppression , and having by the princes and nobles standing by her , gained some protection of the laws , she began to use her own power , as far as she had it , and when she was now fortified with edicts , and laws , and priviledges , to vindicate herself with arms from the vexatious oppression of tyrants . wherefore the nobles of france , who were concerned to provide that the publick liberty should not be oppressed by wrong , nor those things which ought to have been established by the law , should be made null and void at the pleasure of some few forreigners crept in amongst them , thought fit to have that unjust violence repelled by a war , and thought fit likewise that the church , which was no otherwise than justly armed , for the preserving that liberty which she had by law , should be drawn out into the field : where , those that fell on your side , friend bellarmine , did not perish by the injury of a persecution , but by the stroke of a most just defence . but because it may be said , that these are private men , which i grant to be true , though their arguments seem to be of another nature , and look like the publick and common reason of mankind , therefore , to finish and perfect this business of authorities , ( with which , as some men are wholly led , so , i hope , others may be so far excused , as not to be haunted and tormented at a dying hour , and tempted either to despair , or die with a lye in their mouths . ) in the last place i shall shew , that the whole church of england , in several convocations , have justified the protestants in those defences , and not only maintained in words , the justice of their resistance , but , which is more , they laid down their purses to help them ; and charged themselves deeply with taxes , in consideration of queen elizabeth's great charges and expences in assisting them : as you may see in the preambles of the clergy's subsidy acts in that reign . quinto elizabethae , cap. . among other considerations , for which the clergy give their subsidy of six shillings in the pound , they have these words : and , finally , pondering the inestimable charges sustained by your highness , as well of late days in reducing the realm of scotland to unity and concord , as also in procuring , as much as in your highness lieth , by all kind of godly and prudent means , the abating of all hostility and persecution within the realm of france , practised and used against the professors of god's holy gospel , and true religion . the first thing in this passage is the queen's assistance of the scotish nobility in their reformation , wherein they were opposed by the queen of scots , who brought french forces into scotland , which is set down at large in our chronicles , stow , p. . the temporalty , in their subsidy act , at the same time , cap. . call this assistance , the princely and upright preservation of the liberty of the next realm and nation of scotland from imminent captivity and desolation . the other thing is the godly and prudent means for abating hostility and persecution within the realm of france . now history will inform us , stow , p. . that those means were the forces sent under dudley earl of warwick , to newhaven , to assist the french protestants who were then in arms. we have some men who would find another name for it , and would call this the abetting of a rebellion ; but the whole bishops and clergy , in convocation , call it , the use of godly and prudent means to abate hostility and persecution , practised and used against the professors of god's holy gospel , and true religion : for so likewise they call a parcel of men , who neither professed nor practised the modern religion of non-resistance . again , the clergy grant another subsidy , eliz. cap. . in consideration of her majesties charges , in the provident and needful prevention of such intended attempts , as tended to the extirpation of the sincere profession of the gospel , both here and elsewhere . the temporalties subsidy-act at the same time will explain this to us , in these reasons for their tax , cap. . besides the great and perpetual honour which it hath pleased god to give your majesty abroad , in making you the principal support of all just and religious causes against usurpers , — besides the great succours in france and flanders , which we do conceive to be most honourable , in regard of the ancient leagues , the justice and equity of their causes . and to the same purpose again the temporalty , eliz. cap. . this land is become since your majesties happy days , both a port , and haven of refuge , for distressed states and kingdoms , and a rock and bulwark of opposition against the tyrannies and ambitious attempts of mighty and usurping potentates . neither are the clergy in their subsidy-act , eliz. cap. . at all behind them , either with their money or acknowledgements . for who hath or should have a livelier sence , or better remembrance of your majesties princely courage and constancy in advancing and protecting the free profession of the gospel , within and without your majesties dominions , than your clergy ? so that if the french and dutch protestants were rebels in their resistance , then the church of england quite through queen elizabeth's reign , by their assisting of them , involved themselves in the same guilt . for it had been utterly unlawful , and a horrid sin to assist subjects in the violation of their duty and allegiance , and to aid them in resisting the ordinance of god. but this being too absurd to be believed of confessors , and men who had hazarded their lives for the protestant religion , it is plain that they held resistance to be lawful in these cases . and they have declared their opinion in this matter , where it was fit to be declared , in acts of parliament , though it be not to be found in their catechism . so that if they who hold the same opinion be in an error , they have erred with their fathers , they have erred with the church of england , and they have erred in good company . finis . licensed . london : printed for i. watts , at the angel in st. paul's church-yard . . an appeal for judgement unto the righteous principle of god in every conscience, against the persecutors of the innocent. r. c. (richard crane) approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an appeal for judgement unto the righteous principle of god in every conscience, against the persecutors of the innocent. r. c. (richard crane) broadside. [s.n.], printed at london : . signed at end: r.c. [i.e. richard crane] attributed to crane by wing. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england. dissenters, religious -- england. persecution -- england. great britain -- history -- charles ii, - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an appeal for judgement , unto the righteous principle of god in every conscience , against the persecutors of the innocent . a woful lamentation is taken up for you , who make it your work to persecute the innocent peaceable people of god , and do devise cursed and wicked snares , to bring them under the penalty of the late cruel and bloody edict , in malice forged against the righteous , and in greater malice by many of you put in execution ; god eternal judge between you and us in this matter . i do chalenge you all in the fear of god , one by one ( i say , our persecutors ) to make it appear what wrong is it we have done to the nation in general , or to any one of you in particular , that we must be made the mark of your implacable fury , and that nothing will serve or satiate that blood-thirsty spirit , but an utter extinction and extermination of us all out of our native soil , where god eternal hath given every one of us a lot ; and as we are english-men and a free-born people , our interest is as large and ample , in that lot by god bestowed on us , as yours is who persecute us ; and we have as much right to breath in england as your very selves , ( setting your places aside ) seeing it is given us of god , and enjoyed through his favour , and not of man. must it be so , that except we do prostrate that pre●●●●s life that god hath raised in us through the son of his love , at the feet of your perverse wills , that we must not abide in the land of our nativity , but be most cruelly banished from wives , children and relations ? and except we will commit the deadly sin ( that is ) to sin against the light of god in the conscience , must we be exposed to seek our sustenance in an unknown land , and there to spend the remnant of our dayes , which are but few ? the will of our god be done , and let his will be my life for ever , saith my soul : but let this be unto you known , it is for well-doing , and not for any evil , that any of you can , or ever could justly charge or accuse us with ; and in god's fear we challenge any of you our persecutors , to prove our meetings seditious , or that we do , or ever did contrive insurrections therein . what though you have a president which ye urge , is it anything to us ? we are clear from henceforth and for ever from that spirit ; and as for any false charge or accusation against us concerning our meetings , as hath been said , it never could nor will be proved , that we were or are seditious , or contriver of insurrections ; therefore god eternal arise , and judge in the consciences of all concerning this thing , and make decision , holy father , that our innocency may appear to our adversaries . and our lives and practives are well known unto the people of this nation of england , and therefore we do make our appeal to the just principle of thee in them for judgement , and our life in which we have held forth the testimony of truth amongst them , is of a longer date and standing than yesterday , and not a certain sect , as hath been said ; for our gathering is out of sect and schism , into that life that erreth not , and in which is no rent ; and this will god eternal in due time make known , not only to the people of this nation , but unto the whole world. and do not call this your cruel work of persecution , execution of justice , as i have heard some ; for the execution of justice is a work of another kind , than to come with armed men amongst a company of innocent men and women , ( who are really met together in the peace and fear of god , to worship him in the movings of his power , life and spirit , which is neither subject to time nor place , because that that life & spirit comprehends both ) and most inhumanely to hale them out , and so to lead them before men appointed to send them to prison , and then to drive them like flocks of sheep through your streets unto your dismal holes , there to remain during the wills of our drivers ; who , because they would accelerate and hasten their cruel work begun , they even take the shortest way to destroy us , by cutting short the time ordered in their cruel edict , having a liberty allowed them therein ●or that purpose . o dreadful god! is the long imprisonment ●nd extent of time , all the favour that must accrue unto us ( if it may be so called ) for the respite we are to have in our native land ? my very soul bleeds within me , to see the cruelty and ●ard-heartedness of this generation of men ; and all this for our well-doing , in answering the requirings of that life god infinite hath raised in us in our day and generation . and known be ●t unto you , this is not the execution of justice , but the oppression of the just , which seeks no revenge against you , neither can do , ●ut leaves it to the lord who is a righteous judge , and will in due ●ime recompence every one according to his work . and is not justice perverted , and truth turned into a lye amongst many of you ? cast your eyes abroad , and behold , behold , the intolerable wickedness that is committed here in and about this city , of all sorts ; o what swearing , whoring , drunkenness , carding , dicing , stage-playing , puppit-playing , and mountebank shewes , with all manner of unclean , obscene , wicked and scameless sports and vanities are practised , and most of them allowed without controul , and as i have heard say , licenced by authority . now here is justice to be done , and the execution of it would be pleasing both to god and good men . o take pitty and compassion upon the young and tender plants of this great city , who are poisoned dayly with these abominable practices above-mentioned ! o turn your sword upon these cursed vanities , which tend to nothing but the ruine both of body and soul ! my life hath been bowed down even unto death , having felt the weight of these wickednesses committed in and about this city , and considering with sorrow the state of the youth and tender plants of this place , who are made to drink-in the poison of the devils drollery , poured forth of these execrable bottles , who manage those cursed practices above-mentioned . consider , consider , are these meetings to be tolerated , and to enjoy full fruition of liberty , and ours to be suppressed ? are these more congruent with a righteous and well-disciplin'd government , than meetings to worship god eternal in his spirit and in his fear ? and are they more for the benefit and profit of a nation , than they that wholly are peaceable in all their practices , as experience hath shewed , and could never be otherwise proved ? let god's just principle in all your consciences answer unto these things , and give judgment : and what you do , or may be suffered to do unto us , we in the will of god forgive you ; and know and be assured of this , we have no enmity unto any particular of you whatsoever , and to such as know not what they do , we can say , father forgive them . r. c. printed at london , in the year , . an edict of the french king prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom wherein he recalls and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv, his grandfather, given at nantes, full of most gracious concessions to protestants : together with a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion for to make them abjure and apostatize : to which is added to form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to : with a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg, in favour of those of the reformed religion, who shall think fit to settle themselves in any of his dominions / translated out of french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an edict of the french king prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom wherein he recalls and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv, his grandfather, given at nantes, full of most gracious concessions to protestants : together with a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion for to make them abjure and apostatize : to which is added to form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to : with a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg, in favour of those of the reformed religion, who shall think fit to settle themselves in any of his dominions / translated out of french. edit de révocation de l'edit de nantes. english france. friedrich wilhelm, elector of brandenburg, - . louis xiv, king of france, - . [ ], p. printed by g.m. ..., [london?] : . place of publication from wing. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng henry -- iv, -- king of france, - . france. -- edit de nantes. protestants -- france -- early works to . freedom of religion -- france -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an edict of the french king , prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom . wherein he recalls , and totally annuls the perpetual and irrevocable edict of king henry the iv. his grandfather , given at nantes , full of most gracious concessions to protestants . together with a brief and true account of the persecution carried on against those of the foresaid religion , for to make them abjure and apostatize . to which is added , the form of abjuration the revolting protestants are to subscribe and swear to . with a declaration of his electoral highness of brandenburg , in favour of those of the reformed religion , who shall think fit to settle themselves in any of his dominions . translated out of french. printed by g. m. anno dom. . an edict of the king , prohibiting all publick exercise of the pretended reformed religion in his kingdom . lewes , by the grace of god , king of france and of navarre , to all present and to come , greeting . king henry the great , our grandfather of glorious memory , desiring to prevent , that the peace which he had procured for his subjects , after the great losses they had sustained , by the long continuance of civil and forreign wars , might not be disturbed by occasion of the pretended reformed religion , as it had been during the reign of the kings his predecessors , had by his edict given at nantes , in the month of april , . regulated the conduct which was to be observed with respect to those of the said religion , the places where they might publickly exercise the same , appointed extraordinary judges , to administer justice to them ; and lastly , also by several distinct articles provided for every thing , which he judged needful for the maintenance of peace and tranquility in his kingdom , and to diminish the aversion which was between those of the one and other religion ; and this , to the end that he might be in a better condition for the taking some effectual course ( which he was resolved to do ) to reunite those again to the church , who upon so slight occasions had withdrawn themselves from it . and forasmuch as this intention of the king , our said grandfather , could not be effected , by reason of his suddain and precipitated death ; and that the execution of the foresaid edict was interrupted during the minority of the late king , our most honoured lord and father , of glorious memory , by reason of some new enterprises of those of the pretended reformed religion , whereby they gave occasion for their being deprived of several advantages which had been granted to them , by the foresaid edict : notwithstanding , the king , our said late lord and father , according to his wonted clemency , granted them another edict at nismes , in the month of july , by means of which the peace and quiet of the kingdom being now again re-established , the said late king , being animated with the same spirit and zeal for religion , as the king our said grandfather was , resolved to make good use of this tranquility , by endeavouring to put this pious design in execution , but wars abroad , coming on a few years after , so that from the year , to the truce which was concluded with the princes of europe , in . the kingdom having been only for some short intervals altogether free from troubles , it was not possible to do any other thing for the advantage of religion , save only to diminish the number of places permitted for the exercise of the pretended reformed religion , as well by the interdiction of those which were found erected , in prejudice to the disposal made in the said edict , as by suppressing the mix'd chambers of judicature , whichwer composed of an equal number of papists and protestants , the erecting of which was only done by provision , and to serve the present exigency . whereas therefore at length it hath pleased god to grant , that our subjects enjoying a perfect peace , and we our selves being no longer taken up with the cares of protecting them against our enemies , are now in a condition to make good use of the said truce , which we have on purpose facilitated , in order to the applying our selves entirely in the searching out of means , which might successfully effect and accomplish the design of the kings , our said grand-father and father , and which also hath been our intention ever since we came to the crown ; we see at present ( not without a just acknowledgment of what we owe to god on that account ) that our endeavours have attained the end we propos'd to our selves , forasmuch as the greater and better part of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion have already embraced the catholick , and since by means thereof , the execution of the edict of nantes , and of all other ordinances in favour of the said pretended reformed religion , is made useless , we judge that we can do nothing better towards the entire effacing of the memory of those troubles , confusion and mischief , which the progress of that false religion , hath been the cause of in our kingdom , and which have given occasion to the said edict , and to so many other edicts and declarations which went before it , or were made since with reference thereto , than by a total revocation of the said edict of nantes , and the particular articles and concessions granted therein , and whatsoever else hath been enacted since in favour of the said religion . i. we make known , that we , for these and other reasons us thereto moving , and of our certain knowledge , full power and royal authority , have by the present perpetual and irrevocable edict , suppressed and annull'd , do suppress and annull the edict of the king , our said grand-father , given at nantes in april . in its whole extent , together with the particular articles ratified the second of may , next following , and letters pattent granted thereupon ; as likewise the edict given at nismes , in july . declaring them null and void , as if they had never been enacted , together with all the concessions granted in them , as well as other declarations , edicts and arrests , to those of the pretended reformed religion , of what nature soever they may be , which shall all continue as if they never had been . and in pursuance hereof , we will , and it is our pleasure , that all the churches of those of the pretended reformed religion , scituate in our kingdom , countries , lands , and dominions belonging to us , be forthwith demolished . ii. we forbid our subjects of the pretended reformed religion to assemble themselves , for time to come , in order to the exercise of their religion , in any place or house under what pretext soever , whether the said places have been granted by the crown , or permitted by the judges of particular places ; any arrests of our council , for authorizing and establishing of the said places for exercise , notwithstanding . iii. we likewise prohibit all lords , of what condition soever they may be , to have any publick exercise in their houses and fiefs , of what quality soever the said fiefs may be , upon penalty to all our said subjects , who shall have the said exercises performed in their houses or otherwise , of confiscation of body and goods . iv. we do strictly charge and command all ministers of the said pretended reformed religion , who are not willing to be converted , and to embrace the catholick apostolick and roman religion , to depart out of our kingdom and countries under our obedience , days after the publication hereof , so as not to continue there beyond the said term , or within the same , to preach , exhort , or perform any other ministerial function , upon pain of being sent to the galleys . v. our will and pleasure is , that those ministers who shall be converted , do continue to enjoy during their lives , and their widdows after their decease , so long as the continue so , the same exemptions from payments and quartering of souldiers , which they did enjoy during the time of their exercise of the ministerial function . moreover we will cause to be paid to the said ministers , during their lives a pension , which by a third part shall exceed the appointed allowance to them as ministers ; the half of which pension shall be continued to their wives , after their decease , as long as they shall continue in the state of widdow-hood . vi. and in case any of the said ministers shall be willing to become advocates , or to take the degree of doctors in law , we will and understand that they be dispensed with , as to the three years of study , which are prescribed by our declarations , as requisite , in order to the taking of the said degree , and that after they have pass'd the ordinary examinations , they be forthwith received as doctors , paying only the moiety of those dues which are usually paid upon that account in every university . vii . we prohibit any particular schools for instructing the children of those of the pretended reformed religion , and in general all other things whatsoever , which may import a concession of what kind soever , in favour of the said religion . viii . and as to the children which shall for the future be born of those of the said pretended reformed religion , our will and pleasure is , that henceforward they be baptized by the curates of our parishes ; strictly charging their respective fathers and mothers to take care they be sent to church in order thereto , upon forfeiture of livres or more , as it shall happen . furthermore , our will is , that the said children be afterwards educated and brought up in the catholick apostolick and roman religion , and give an express charge to all our justices , to take care the same be performed accordingly . ix . and for a mark of our clemency towards those of our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , who have retired themselves out of our kingdom , countries , and territories , before the publication of this our present edict , our will and meaning is , that in case they return thither again , within the time of four months , from the time of the publication hereof they may , and it shall be lawful for them , to re-enter upon the possession of their goods and estates , and enjoy the same in like manner , as they might have done in case they had always contiued upon the place . and on the contrary , that the goods of all those , who within the said time of four months , shall not return into our kingdom , countries , or territories , under our obedience , which they have forsaken , remain and be confiscated in pursuance of our declaration of the th of august last . x. we most expresly and strictly forbid all our subjects of the said pretended reformed religion , them , their wives or children , to depart out of our said kingdom , countries , or territories under our obedience , or to transport thence their goods or effects , upon penalty of the gally , for men , and of confiscation of body and goods for women . xi . our will and meaning is , that the declarations made against those who shall relapse , be executed upon them according to their form and tenor. moreover , those of the said pretended reformed religion , in the mean time , till it shall please god to enlighten them as well as others , may abide in the several respective cities and places of our kingdoms , countries , and territories under our obedience , and there continue their commerce , and enjoy their goods and estates , without being any way molested upon account of the said pretended reformed religion , upon condition nevertheless , as forementioned , that they do not use any publick religious exercise , nor assemble themselves upon the account of prayer or worship of the said religion , of what kind soever the same may be , upon forfeiture above specified of body and goods . accordingly we will and command our trusty and beloved counsellors , the people holding our courts of aids at paris , bayliffs , chief justices , provosts , and other our justices and officers to whom it appertains , and to their lieutenants , that they cause to be read , published , and registred , this our present edict in their courts and jurisdictions , even in vacation time , and the same keep punctually , without contrevening or suffering the same to be contrevened ; for such is our will and pleasure . and to the end to make it a thing firm and stable , we have caused our seal to be put to the same . given at fountainbleau in the month of october , in the year of grace , and of our reign the . signed lewes . this signifies the lord chancellors perusal . visa . le tellier . sealed with the great seal of green-wax , upon a red and green string of silk . registred and published , the kings procurator or attorney general , requiring it , in order to their being executed according to form and tenor , and the copies being examined and compared , sent to the several courts of justice , bailywicks , and sheriffs courts of each destrict , to be there entred and registred in like manner , and charge given to the deputies of the said attorney general , to take care to see the same executed and put in force , and to certifie the court thereof . at paris in the court of vacations the th of october . signed de la baune . a short account of the violent proceedings , and unheard of cruelties , which have been exercised upon those of montauban , and which continue to be put in practise in other places against those of the reformed religion in france , for to make them renounce their religion . on saturday the / of august . the intendant of the upper guienne , who resides at montauban , having summoned the principal protestants of the said city to come before him , representing unto them , that they could not be ignorant that the absolute will and pleasure of the king was , to tolerate but one religion in his kingdom , viz. the roman catholick religion , and therefore wished them readily to comply with the same , and in order thereto , advised them to assemble themselves and consider what resolution they would take . to this proposal some answered , that there was no need of their assembling themselves upon that account , forasmuch as every one of them in particular , were to try and examine themselves , and be always in a readiness to give a reason of the faith which was in them . the next day the intendant again commanded them to meet together in the town-house , which should be left free for them from noon till six of the clock in the evening , where meeting accordingly , they unanimously resolved , as they had lived , so to persist till death in their religion ; which resolution of theirs , there were some deputed by them to declare to the intendant ; who presenting themselves before him , he who was appointed spokesman , began to address himself to the intendant in these words : my lord , we are not unacquainted how we are menaced with the greatest violence . hold there , said the intendant ( interrupting him ) no violence . after this the protestant continued ; but whatever force or violence may be put upon us — here the intendant interrupting him again , said , i forbid you to use any such words : upon which second interruption , he contented himself to assure him in few words , that they were all resolved to live and dye in their religion . the day after the battallion of la fere consisting of companies , entred the city , and were followed by many more . the protestants all this while dreaming of no other design they had against them , but that of ruining their estates and impoverishing them , had already taken some measures how to bear the said tryal ; they had made a common purse for the relief of such who should be most burthen'd with quartering , and were come to a resolution to possess what they had in common : but alass , how far these poor souls were mistaken in their accounts , and how different the treatment they received from the dragoons was , from what they had expected , i shall now relate to you . first therefore , in order to their executing the design and project they had formed against them , they made the souldiers take up their quarters in one certain place of the city , but withal appointed several corp de gards to cut off the communication which one part of the city might have with the other , and possess'd themselves of the gates , that none might make their escape . things being thus ordered , the troopers , souldiers and dragoons began to practise all manner of hostilities and cruelties wherewith the devil can inspire the most inhumane and reprobate minds : they marr'd and defac'd their housholdstuff , broke their looking-glasses , and other like utensils and ornaments , they let the wine run about their cellars , cast abroad and spoil'd their corn , and other alimentary provisions : and as for those things which they could not break and dash to pieces , as the furniture of beds , hangings , tapistry , linnen , wearing apparrel , plate , and things of the like nature , these they carried to the market place , where the jesuits bought them of the souldiers , and encouraged the roman catholicks to do the like . they did not stick to sell the very houses of such who were most resolute and constant in their profession it is supposed according to a moderate calculation , that in the time of four or five days , the protestants of that city were the poorer by a million of money , than they were before the entring of these missionaries . there were souldiers who demanded crowns a piece of their hosts for spending money , and many protestants were forced to pay down ten pistols to each souldier upon the same account . in the mean time the outrages they committed upon their persons were most detestable and barbarous , i shall only here set down some few of which i have been particularly inform'd . a certain taylor called bearnois was bound and drag'd by the souldiers to the corp de gard , where they boxed and buffetted him all night , all which blows and indignities he suffered with the greatest constancy imaginable . the troopers who quartered with mounsieur solignac made his dining room a stable for their horses , tho the furniture of it was valued at livers , and forc'd him to turn the broach till his arm was near burnt , by their continual casting of wood upon the fire . a passenger as he went through the said city saw some souldiers beating a poor man even to death , for to force him to go to mass , whilst the constant martyr to his last breath , cryed , he would never do it , and only requested they would dispatch and make an end of him . the barons of caussade and de la motte , whose constancy and piety might have inspired courage and resolution to the rest of the citizens , were sent away to cahors . mounsieur d' alliez one of the prime gentlemen of montauban , being a venerable old man , found so ill treatment at their hands , as its thought he will scarcely escape with life . mounsieur de garrison who was one of the most considerable men of that city , and an intimate friend of the intendant , went and cast himself at his feet , imploring his protection , and conjuring him to rid him of the souldiers , that he might have no force put upon his conscience , adding , that in recompence of this favour , he beg'd of him , he would willingly give him all he had , which was to the value of about a million of livers ; but by all his entreaties and proffers he could not in the least prevail with the intendant , who gave order , that for a terror to the meaner sort , he should be worse used than the rest , by dragging him along the streets . the method they most commonly made use of , for to make them abjure their religion , and which could not be the product of any thing but hell , was this ; some of the most strong and vigorous souldiers , took their hosts or other persons of the house , and walk'd them up and down in some chamber , continually tickling them and tossing them like a ball from one to another , without giving them the least intermission , and keeping them in this condition for three days and nights together , without meat , drink or sleep ; when they were so wearied and fainting , that they could no longer stand upon their legs , they laid them on a bed , continuing as before to tickle and torment them ; after some time when they thought them somewhat recovered , they made them rise , and walked them up and down as before , sometimes tickling , and other times lashing them with rods , to keep them from sleeping . as soon as one party of these barbarous tormenters were tyred and wearied out , they were relieved by others of their companions , who coming fresh to the work , with greater vig●●… and violence reiterated the same course . by this infernal invention ( which they had formerly made use of with success , in bearn and other places ) many went distracted , and others became mopish and stupid , and remain so . those who made their escape were fain to abandon their estates , yea , their wives , children , and aged relations to the mercy of these barbarous and more then savage troops . the same cruelties were acted at negreplisse , a city near to montauban , where these bloody emissaries committed unparallel'd outrages . isaac favin , a citizen of that place was hung up by his arm-pits , and tormented a whole night by pinching and tearing of his flesh with pincers , tho by all this they were not able to shake his constancy in the least . the wife of one roussion a joyner , being violently drag'd by the souldiers along the streets , for to force her to hear mass , dyed of this cruel and inhumane treatment , as soon as she reach'd the church porch . amongst other their devilish inventions this was one , they made a great fire round about a boy of about ten years of age , who continually with hands and eyes lifted to heaven , cryed , my god help me , and when they saw the lad resolved to dye so , rather than renounce his religion , they snatch'd him from the fire , when he was at the very point of being burnt . the cities of caussade , realville , st. anthonin , and other towns and places in the upper guienne , met with the same entertainment , as well as bergerac , and many other places of perigord , and of the lower guienne , which had a like share of these cruel and inhumane usages . the forementioned troops marched at last to castres , to commit the same insolencies and barbarities there also ; and it is not to be doubted , but that they will continue and carry on the same course of cruelties , where ever they go , if god in pity and compassion to his people do not restrain them . it is to be seared ( for it seems but too probable ) that this dreadful persecution in conjunction with those artifices the papists make use of to disguise their religion , and to , perswade protestants that they shall be suffered to worship god as formerly , will make many to comply with them , or at least make their mouths give their hearts the lye , in hopes of being by this means put into a condition to make their escapes , and returning to that profession , which their weakness hath made them deny . but alas ! this is not all , for those poor wretches , whom by these devilish ways of theirs , they have made to blaspheme and abjure their religion , as if this were not enough , must now become the persecutors and tormentors of their own wives and children , for to oblige and force them to renounce also , for they are threatned , that if within three days time they do not make their whole family recant in like manner , those rough apostles ( the dragoons ) shall be fain to take further pains with them in order to perfect their conversion . and who after all this can have the least doubt but that these unhappy dragoons are the very emissaries of hell , whose very last essorts and death-struglings these seem to be ? this relation hath given a short view of some of those sufferings , the reformed have undergone , but not of all : it is certain that in divers places they have tryed to wear out their patience , and overcome their constancy by applying red-hot irons to the hands and feet of men , and to the paps of women . at nantes they hung up several women and maids by their feet , and others by their arm-pits , and that stark-naked , thus exposing them to publick view , which assuredly is the most cruel and exquisite suffering can befall that sex , because in this case their shamefacedness and modesty is most sensibly touched , which is the most tender part of their soul. they have bound mothers that gave suck unto posts , and let their little infants lye languishing in their sight without being suffered to suckle them for several days , and all this while left them crying , moaning , and gasping for life , and even dying for hunger and thirst , that by this means they might vanquish the constancy of their tender hearted mothers , swearing to them they would never permit they should give them suck till they promised to renounce their profession of the gospel . they have taken children of four or five years of age , and kept them from meat and drink for some time , and when they have been ready to faint away and give the ghost , they have brought them before their parents , and horribly asseverated , that except they would turn , they must prepare themselves to see their children languish and dye in their presence . some they have bound before a great fire , and being half roasted , have after let them go ; they beat men and women outragiously , they drag them along the streets , and torment them day and night . the ordinary way they took was to give them no rest , for the souldiers do continually relieve one another for to drag , beat , torment and toss up and down these miserable wretches without intermission . if it happen that any by their patience and constancy do stand it out , and triumph over all the rage and fury of those dragoons , they go to their commander and acquaint him they have done all they could , but yet without the desired success , who in a barbarous and surly tone , answers them ; you must return upon them , and do worse than you have done , the king commands it ; either they must turn , or i must burst and perish in the attempt . these are the pleasant flowery paths by which the papists allure protestants to return to the bosome of their church . but some it may be will object , you make a great noise about a small matter , all protestants have not been exposed to these cruelties but only some few obstinate persons : well , i will suppose so , but yet the horor of those torments inflicted on some , hath so fill'd the imagination of these miserable wretches , that the very thoughts of them hath made them comply ; it is indeed a weakness of which we are ashamed for their sakes , and from whence we hope god will raise them again , in his due time ; yet thus much we may alledge for their excuse , that never was any persecution upon pretence of religion carried on to that pitch , and with that politick malice and cruelty that this hath been , and therefore of all those which ever the church of christ groan'd under , none can be compar'd with it . true indeed it is that in former ages it hath been common to burn the faithful under the name of hereticks , but how few were there exposed to that cruel kind of death , in comparison of those who escaped the executioners hands ? but behold here a great people at once oppress'd , destroy'd , and ruin'd by a vast army of prodigious butchers , and few or none escaping . former , yea late times have given us some instances of massacres , but these were only violent tempests , and suddain hurricanes , which lasted but a night , or at the most a few days , and they who suffered in them were soon out of their pains , and the far greater number escaped the dint of them : but how much more dreadful is the present condition of the protestants in france ? and to the end we may take a true view and right measures of it , let us consider , that nothing can be conceived more terrible than a state of war , but what war to be compared with this ? they see a whole army of butcherly canibals entring their houses , battering , breaking , burning and destroying whatever comes to hand , swearing , cursing , and blaspheming like devils , beating to excess , offering all manner of indignities and violence , diverting themselves , and striving to outvie each other in inventing new methods of pain and torment , not to be appeased with money or good chear , foaming and roaring like ravenous raging lyons , and presenting death , at every moment , and that which is worse than all this , driving people to distraction , and set seless stupidity by those devilish inventions , we have given you an instance of in the relation of montauban . moreover , this persecution hath one characteristical note more , which , without any exaggeration , will give it the precedence in history for cruelty , above all those which the church of god ever suffered under nero , maximinus , or dioclesian , which is the severe prohibition of departing the kingdom upon pain of confiscation of goods , of the gally , of the lash , and perpetual imprisonment . all the sea ports are kept with that exactness , as if it were to hinder the escape of traytors and common enemies ; all the prisons of sea port towns are cram'd with these miserable fugitives , men , women , boys and girls , who there are condemn'd to the worst of punishments , for having had a desire to save themselves , from this dreadful persecution and deluging calamity ; this is the thing which is unparallel'd , and of which we find no instance . this is that superlative excess of cruelty , which we shall not find in the list of all the violent and bloody proceedings of the duke of alva , he massacred , he beheaded , he butchered , but at least he did not prohibit those that could , to make their escape . in the last hungarian persecution , nothing was required of the protestants , but only that their ministers should banish themselves , and abandon and renounce the conduct of their flocks ; and because they were unwilling to obey these orders , therefore it is they have groaned under so long , and so terrible a persecution , as they have done ; but this hungarian persecution is not to be compared with that we are speaking of , for the fury of that tempest discharged it self upon the ministers only , no armies were imploy'd to force the people to change their religion , by a thousand several ways of torment , much less did it ever enter the thoughts of the emperours council , to shut up all the protestants in hungary , in order to the destroying of all those who would not abjure their religion , which yet is the very condition of so many wretched persons in france , who beg it as the highest favour at the hands of their merciless enemies , to have leave to go and beg their bread in a forreign country , being willing to leave their goods , and all other outward conveniencies behind them , for to lead a poor miserable , languishing life in any place , where only they may be suffered to dye in their religion . and is it not from all this most apparent , that those monsters who have inspired the king with these designs , have resin'd the mystery of persecuting to the utmost , and advanc'd it to its highest pitch of perfection ? o great god! who from thy heavenly throne dost behold all the outrages done to thy people , hast thee to help us ! great god , whose compassions are infinite , suffer thy self to be touched with our extream desolution ! if men be insensible of the calamities we suffer , if they be deaf to our cries , not regarding our groans and supplications , yet let thy bowels , o lord , be moved , and affect thee in our behalf . glorious god , for whose names sake we suffer all these things , who knowest our innocence and weakness as well as the fury and rage of our adversaries , the small support and help we find in the world ; behold we perish if thy pity doth not rouze thee up for our relief . it is thou art our rock , our god , our father , our deliverer , we do not place our confidence in any but thee alone ; let us not be confounded , because we put our trust in thee . hast thee to our help , make no long tarrying , o lord , our god and our redeemer . a letter sent from bordeaux giving an account of the persecution of those of the protestant religion in france . sir , whatsoever you have heard concerning the persecution of those that are of our religion in the land of bearn , guienne , and perigort , is but too true , and i can assure you , that they who have given you that account , have been so far fromamplifying the matter , that they have only acquainted you with some few particulars ; yet am i not much surprised at the difficulty you find to perswade your self that the things of which your friends inform you are true ; in cases of this nature , so amazingly unexpected , we are apt often to distrust our own eyes ; and i profess to you , that though all places round about us eccho the report of our ruine and destruction , yet i can scarcely perswade my self it is so indeed , because i cannot comprehend it . it is no matter of surprise or amazement to see the church of christ afflicted upon earth , forasmuch as she is a stranger here , as well as her captain , lord and husband , the holy and ever-blessed jesus was , and must like him , by the same way of cross and suffering , return to her own country , which is above . it is no matter of astonishment to find her from time to time suffering the worst of usage , and most cruel persecutions ; all ages have seen her exposed to such tryals as these , which are so necessary for the testing of her faith , and so fit a matter of her future glory . neither is it any great wonder , if , amidst these sore tryals , vast numbers of those who made profession of the gospel , do now renounce and forsake it : we know that all have not faith , and it is more than probable that they who do not follow christ , but because they thrive by it , and for the loaves will cease to be of his retinue , when he is about to oblige them to bear his cross , and deny themselves . but that which seems inconceivable to me , is , that our enemies should pitch upon such strange ways and methods to destroy us , as they have done , and that in so doing , they should meet with a success so prodigious and doleful . i shall as briefly as i can endeavour to give you an account of so much as i have understood of it . all those thundring declarations , and destructive arrests , which continually were sued for , and obtain'd against us , and which were executed with the extremity of rigour , were scarce able to move any one of us . the forbidding of our publick exercises , the demolishing of our churches , and the severe injunction that not so much as two or three of us should dare to assemble in order to any thing of divine worship , had no other effect upon the far greater part of us , than to inflame our zeal , instead of abating it , obliging us to pray to god with greater fervor and devotion in our closets , and to meditate of his word with greater application and attention . and neither the great wants , to which we were reduced by being depriv'd of our offices and imploys , and all other means of living , and by those insupportable charges with which they strove to over-whelm us , as well by taxes , as the quartering of souldiers ( both which were as heavy as could be laid upon us ) nor the continual trouble we were put to by criminal or other matters of law , which at the suit of one or other were still laid to our charge , tho upon the most frivolous and unjust pretences imaginable ; i say all these were not able to wear out our patience , which was hardned against all calamities ; insomuch as the design of forcing us to abandon the truth of the gospel , would infallibly have been ship-wrack'd , if no other means had been taken in hand for this purpose . but alas ! our enemies were too ingenious to be bauk'd so , and had taken our ruine too , much to heart , not to study for means effectual and proper to bring about their desires ; they call'd to mind what prodigious success , a new kind of persecution had had of late years in poictou , aunix , and xaintonge , which the intendants of those places had bethought themselves of , and they made no difficulty to have recourse to the same , as to a means infallible , and not to be doubted of . i must tell you , sir , that we had not the least thought that ever such violent methods as these would have been pitched upon , as the means of our conversion : we were always of opinion , that none but dennuieux's and marillacs could be fit instruments for such like enterprises ; neither could we ever have imagin'd that generals of armies , who account it a shame and reproach to attack and take some paultry town or village , should ever debase themselves to besiege old men , women , and children in their own houses ; or that ever souldiers , who think themselves ennobled by their swords , should degrade themselves so far to take up the trade of butchers and hangmen , by tormenting poor innocents , and inflicting all sorts of punishments upon them . moreover , we were the less in expectation of any such thing , because at the self same time they treated us in this manner , they would needs perswade us , that the kings council had disapproved the design : and indeed it seem'd very probable to us , that all reasons , whether taken from humanity , piety , or interest , would have made them disavow and condemn a project so inhumane and barbarous : yet now by experience we find it but too true , that our enemies are so far from rejecting the said design , that they carry it on with an unparallel'd zeal and application , without giving themselves any further trouble to effectuate their desires , than that of doing these two things . the first of which was to lull us asleep , and to take away from us all matter of suspition of the mischief they were hatching against us ; which they did by permiting some of our publick exercises of religion , by giving way to our building of some churches , by setling ministers in divers places to baptize our children , and by publishing several arrests and declarations , which did intimate to us , that we had reason to hope we should yet subsist for some years : such was that declaration , by which all ministers were ordered to change their churches every three years . the other was to secure all the sea-ports of the kingdom , so as none might make their escape , which was done by renewing the antient prohibitions of departing the kingdom without leave , but with the addition of far more severe penalties . after these precautions thus taken , they thought themselves no longer oblig'd to keep any measures , but immediately lift up the hand , to give the last blow for our ruine . the intendants had order to represent to us , that the king was resolved to suffer no other religion in his kingdom besides his own , and to command us all in his name , readily to embrace the same , without allowing us any longer respite to consider what we had to do , than a few days , nay hours ; threatning us , that if we continued obstinate , they would force us to it by the extremity of rigour , and presently executing these their menaces , by filling our houses with souldiers , to whom we were to be left for a prey , and who not content with entirely ruining of us , should besides exercise upon our persons all the violence and cruelty they could possibly devise : and all this to overcome our constancy and perseverance . four months are now past and gone , since that began to make use of this strange and horrible way of converting people , worthy of , and well becoming its inventors . the country of bearn was first set upon , as being one of the most considerable out-parts of the kingdom , to the end that this mischievous enterprise gaining strength in its passage , might soon after over-whelm , and as it were deluge all the other provinces in the same sea of the uttermost calamity . monsieur foucaut the intendant , went himself in person to all the places where we were in any numbers , and commanded all the inhabitants that were of the protestant religion , under the penalty of great amercements , to assemble themselves in those places he appointed to them ; where being accordingly met together , he charged them in the kings name to change their religion , allowing them only a day or two to dispose themselves for it ; he told them , that great numbers of souldiers were at hand to compel those that should refuse to yield a ready obedience ; and this threatning of his being immediately followed by the effect , as the lightning is by thunder , he fill'd the houses of all those who abode constant in their resolution to live and dye faithful to their lord and master jesus christ , with souldiers , and commands those insolent troops ( flesh'd with blood and slaughter ) to give them the worst treatment they could possibly devise . i shall not undertake , sir , to give you a particular account of those excesses and outrages these enraged brutals committed in executing the orders they were charged with ; the relation would prove too tedious and doleful , it shall suffice me to tell you , that they did not forget any thing that was inhumane , barbarous , or cruel , without having regard to any condition , sex or age , they pull'd down and demolished their houses , they spoil'd , dash'd to pieces , and burnt their best moveables and houshold-stuff , they bruised and beat to death venerable old men , they dragg'd honourable matrons to mass , without the least pitty or respect , they bound and fetter'd innocent persons , as if they had been the most infamous and profligate villains , they hung them up by their feet , till they saw them ready to give up the ghost , they took red-hot fire-shovels and held them close to their bare heads , and actually apply'd them to other parts of their bodies , they immur'd them within four walls , where they let them perish for hunger and thirst ; and the constancy wherewith they suffer'd all these torments , having had no other effect , but that of augmenting the rage of these furies , they never ceased inventing new ways of pain and torture , till their inhumanity at length had got the victory , and triumphed over the patience and faith of these miserable wretches . insomuch that of all those many numerous assemblies we had in that province , as that of pau , d' arthes , de novarre , &c. there are scarcely left a small number who either continue constant in despite of all these cruelties , or else have made their escape into spain , holland , england , or elsewhere , leaving their goods and families for a prey to these merciless and cruel men. success having thus far answered their expectation , they resolved to loose no time , but vigorously prosecuting their work , they immediately turned their thoughts and arms towards montauban ; where the intendant having summoned the citizens to appear before him , bespeaks them much in the same language , as was used to those of bearne , whereunto they having returned about the same answer , he orders men to enter the city , and makes them take up their quarters , as at bearne , only in the houses of protestants , with express command to treat them in like manner , as they had done those of bearne : and these inhumane wretches were so diligent and active in executing these pittiless orders , that of or souls of which that church did consist , not above or families are escaped , who in a doleful and forlorn condition wander up and down the woods , and hide themselves in thickets . the ruine of this important place drew after it the desolation of all the churches about it , which were all enveloped in the same common calamity , as those of realmont , bourniquel , negreplisse , &c. yet was not the condition of the churches in the upper guienne more sad and calamitous , than that of those of the lower guienne , and of perigort , which this horrible deluge hath likewise overwhelm'd . mounsieur bousters and the intendant having shared the country between them , mounsieur de bousters taking for his part agenois , tonnein , clerac , with the adjoyning places ; and the intendant having taken upon him to reduce fleis , monravel , genssac , cartillon , coutras , libourne , &c. the troops which they commanded , in the mean time carrying desolation to all the places they passed through , filling them with mourning and despair , and scattering terror and amazement amongst all those to whom they approached . there were at the same time companies at saint foy , at nerac , and as many in proportion in all other parts ; so that all places being fill'd with these troops , accustom'd to licentiousness and pillage , there is not any one of the said places , where they have not left most dreadful marks of their rage and cruelty , having at last , by means of their exquisite tortures , made all those of our religion submit themselves to the communion of rome . but forasmuch as bergerac was most signally famous for the long tryals it had most gloriously endured , and that our enemies were very sensible of what advantage it would be to the carrying on of their design , to make themselves masters there also , at any price whatsoever , they accordingly failed not to attempt the same with more resolution and obstinacy than any of the forementioned places . this little town had already for three years together , with admirable patience and constancy , endured a thousand ill treatments and exactions from souldiers , who had pick'd them to the very bones : for besides that , it was almost a continual passage for souldiers ; there were no less than troops of horse had their winter quarters there , who yet in all that time had only gain'd three converts , and they such too as were maintain'd by the alms of the church . but to return , the design being form'd to reduce this city , two troops of horse are immediately ordered thither to observe the inhabitants , and soon after companies of foot enter the town , monsieur bousters and the intendant of the province , with the bishops of agen and perigueux , and same other persons of quality , render themselves there at the same time , and send for of the chiefest citizens to appear before them , telling them , that the kings express will and pleasure was , they should all go to mass , and that in case of disobedience , they had order to compel them to it : to which the citizens unanimously answered , that their estates were at the dispose of his majesty , but that god alone was lord of their consciences , and that they were resolved to suffer to the utmost , rather than do any thing contrary to the motions of it . whereupon they were told , that if they were so resolved , they had nought else to do but to prepare themselves to receive the punishment their obstinacy and disobedience did deserve ; and immediately companies more of infantry and cavalry enter the city ( which , together with the companies beforementioned , were all quartered with protestants ) with express command not to spare any thing they had , and to exercise all manner of violence upon the persons of those that entertain'd them , until they should have extorted a promise from them , to do whatsoever was commanded them . these orders then being thus executed , according to the desires of those who had given them , and these miserable victims of a barbarous military fury , being reduc'd to the most deplorable and desolate condition ; they are again sent for to the town-house , and once more pressed to change their religion , and they answering with tears in their eyes , and with all the respect , humility , and submission imaginable , that the matter required of them , was the only thing they could not do , the extreamest rigour and severity is denounc'd against them ; and they presently made good their words , by sending more companies into the city , which made up the full number of a hundred , who encouraging themselves from their numbers , and flying like enraged wolves upon these innocent sheep , did rend and worry them in such a manner , as the sole relation cannot but strike with horror and amazement . whole companies were ordered to quarter with one citizen , and persons whose whole estate did not amount to livres , were taxed at the rate of livres a day : when their money is gone , they sell their houshold-stuff , and sell that for two pence , which hath cost livres , they bind and fetter father , mother , wife and children : four souldiers continually stand at the door to hinder any from coming in to succour or comfort them : they keep them in this condition , two , three , four , five , and six days , without either meat , drink , or sleep ; on one hand the child cries with the languishing accent of one ready to dye , ah my father ! ah my mother ! what shall i do ? i must dye , i can endure no longer : the wife on the other hand cries ; alass ! my heart fails me , i faint , i dye ; whilst their cruel tormentors are so far from being touch'd with compassion , that from thence they take occasion to press them afresh , and to renew their torments , frighting them with their hellish menaces , accompanied with most execrable oaths and curses ; crying , dog , bougre , what , wilt not thou be converted ? wilt not thou be obedient ? dog , bougre , thou must be converted , we are sent on purpose to convert thee : and the clergy who are witnesses of all these cruelties , ( with which they feast their eyes ) and of all their infamous and abominable words , ( which ought to cover them with horror and confusion ) make only a matter of sport and laughter of it . thus these miserable wretches , being neither suffered to live nor to dye , ( for when they see them sainting away , they force them to take so much as to keep body and soul together ) and seeing no other way for them to be delivered out of this hell , in which they are continually tormented , are fain at last to stoop under the unsupportable burthen of these extremities : so that excepting only a few who saved themselves by a timely flight , preferring their religion before all temporal possessions , all the rest have been constrained to go to mass . neither is the country any more exempt from these calamities , than towns and cities , nor those of the nobility and gentry , than citizens . they send whole companies of souldiers into gentlemens houses , who treat them in the most outragious and violent manner conceivable , insomuch that not a soul can hope to escape , except it may be some few , who like the believers of old , wander in desarts , and lodge in dens and caves of the earth . furthermore i can assure you , that never was any greater consternation , than that which we are in here at present , the army , we hear , is come very near us , and the intendant is just now arrived in this city ; the greater part of the most considerable merchants are either already gone , or casting about how best to make their escape , abandoning their houses and estates to their enemies ; and there are not wanting some cowardly spirits , who , to avoid the mischief they are preparing for us , have already promised to do whatsoever is required of them . in a word , nothing is seen or heard in these parts but consternation , weeping and lamentation , there being searce a person of our religion , who hath not his heart pierced with the bitterest sorrows , and whose countenance hath not the lively picture of death imprinted on it : and surely , if our enemies triumph in all this , their triumph cannot likely be of any long continuance . i confess i cannot perswade my self to entertain so good an opinion of them , as to think that ever they will be ashamed of these their doings , so diametrically opposite to the spirit of the gospel , for i know the gospel in their accounts passeth for a fable : but this i dare averr , that this method of theirs will infallibly lay waste the kingdome , which , according to all appearance , is never like to recover of it , and so in time , they themselves will be made as sensible of these miseries , as others now are . commerce is already in a manner wholly extinct , and there will need little less than a miracle to recover it to its former state. what protestant merchants will henceforward be willing to engage themselves in trade , either with persons without faith , and who have so cowardly behav'd their religion and conscience , or with the outrageous and barbarous persecuters of the religion which they profess ▪ and who by these courses declare openly and frankly , that it is their principle , not to think themselves oblig'd to keep their word with hereticks ? and who are those , of what religion soever , that will negotiate with a state exhausted by taxes and subsidies , by persecutions , by barrenness and dearth of several years continuance ; full of a despairing people , and which infallibly will ere long be full of those that are proscrib'd , and be bathing in its own blood. and these miserable wretches who have been deceived , by those who have told them , that it would never be impos'd upon them to abjure their religion , and who are stupified by the extremity of their sufferings , and the terror of their bloody and cruel enemies , are wrapt up in so deep an astonishment , as doth not permit them to be fully sensible of their fall : but as soon as they shall recover themselves , and remember that they could not embrace the communion of rome , without absolutely renouncing the holy religion they professed , and when they shall make a full reflection upon the unhappy change they have been forced to make , then their consciences being awakened , and continually reproaching their faint-heartedness , will rend them with sorrow and remorse , and inflict torments upon them , equal to those the damned endure in hell , and will make them endeavour to be delivered from this anguish , and to find rest in the constant profession of that truth , which they have so unhappily betray'd . and on the other side , their enemies will be loath to take the lye at this time of day , and therefore will endeavour through fear of punishments , to oblige them to stay in that abyss of horror , into which they have precipitated them : but because all the sufferings they can possibly threaten them with , will be no ways considerable when compared with those tortures their consciences have already inflicted upon them , and wherewith they threaten them in case of a relapse , they will be constrained to drag them to the place of execution , or else seek to rid themselves of them all at once by a general massacre , which many good souls have so long desired . i hope , sir , you will not be wanting in your most earnest prayers to beg of god that he would be pleased to take pity of these miserable wretches , and make the heart of our soveraign to relent towards us ; that he would convert those who in their blindness think they do him service by putting us to death , that he would cause his voice to be heard by them from heaven , as to st. paul ; saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? and make the rest the examples of his exemplary justice ; finally , that he would grant , that all those who have denied him , being touched with a true repentance , may with st. peter go out , and weep bitterly . i am , sir , yours , an extract of a letter , containing some more instances of the cruel and barbarous usage of the protestants in france . but this , sir , is not the thing which troubles me most at this time , there 's another cause of my grief , which is but too just , and even pierceth my heart with sorrow , and that is , the cruel persecution which the poor protestants of france do suffer , amongst whom i have so many near and dear relations : the torments they are put to , are almost incredible , and the heavenly courage wherewith some of them are strengthned by their great captain and leader to undergo them , is no less amazing and wonderful ; i shall give for instance one or two of these champions , that by them you may judge of the rest . a young woman was brought before the council in order to oblige her to abjure the truth of the gospel , which she boldly and man fully refusing , was commanded back again to prison , where they shaved her head , and sing'd off the hair of her privities , and having stript her stark-naked , in this manner led her throngh the streets of the city , where many a blow was given her , and stones flung at her . after this , they set her up to the neck in a tub full of water , where after she had been for a while , they took her out , and put upon her a shift dipt in wine , which as it dry'd , and stuck to her sore and bruised body , they snatch'd off again , and then had another ready , dipt in wine , to clap upon her , this they repeated six several times ; and when by this inhumane usage her body was become very raw and tender , they demanded of her , whether she did not now find her self disposed to embrace the catholick faith ? for so they are pleased to term their religion : but she being strengthned by the spirit and love of him , for whose names sake she suffered all these extremities , undauntedly answered , that she had before declared her resolution to them , which she would never alter ; and that though they had her body in their power , she was resolved not to yield her soul to them , but keep it pure and undefiled for her heavenly lover , as knowing that a little while would put an end to all her sufferings , and give a beginning to her enjoyment of everlasting bliss : which words of hers , adding fuel to their rage , who now despaired of making her a convert , they took and fastned her by her feet , to something that served the turn of a gibbet , and there let her hang in that ignominious posture with her head downwards , till she expired . the other person i would instance in , and whom i pity the more , because ( for ought i know ) he may yet survive , and stil continue under the tormentors hands , in an old man , who having for a great while been kept close prisoner ( upon the same account as the former ) in a deep dungeon , where his companions were darkness and horror , and filthy creeping things , was brought before his judges with vermine and snails crewling upon his mouldred garment , who seeing him in that loathsome condition , said to him , how now old man , does not your heart begin to relent ? and are not you willing to abjure your haeresie ? to which he answered ; as for haeresie , i profess none ; but if by that word you mean my religion , you may assure your selves , that as i have thus long lived , so i hope , and am resolved by the grace of god to dye in it : with which answer they being little pleased , but furiously incensed , bespoke him in a rougher tone : dost thou not see that the worms are about to devour thee ? well , since thou art so resolved , we will send thee back again , to the loathsome place from whence thou camest , that they may make an end of thee , and consume thy obdurate heart ; to which he reply'd , with the words of the holy patient job ; novi post quam vermes confoderint ( corpus ) istud , in carne me a me visurum esse deum . i know that after worms have eaten this body , that in my flesh i shall see god ; and having so said , he was sent back to his loathsome dark abode , where if he be still , i pray god to give him patience and strength to hold out to the end , that so he may obtain the crown of life . i should be too tedious in giving you all the particulars of their cruelty , and of the sufferings of the protestants , yet i cannot well forbear acquainting you with what lately i am most credibly inform'd off , which take as follows ; some dragoons who were quartered with a person , whom they could by no means oblige to renounce his religion , upon a time when they had well fill'd themselves with wine , and broke their glasses at every health they drank , and so fill'd the floor where they were with the fragments , and by often walking over , and treading upon them , reduced them to lesser picees and fractions , and being now in a merry humour , they must needs go to dance , and told their host that he must be one of the company , but withal , that he must first pull off his stockings and shoes , that he might moove the more nimbly ; in a word , they forc'd him to dance with them bare-footed upon the sharp points of glass , which when they had continued so long as they were able to keep him on his legs , they laid him down on a bed , and a while after stript him stark-naked , and roled his body from one end of the room to the other upon the sharp glass , as before-mentioned , which having done , till his skin was stuck full of the said little fragments , they returned him again to his bed , and sent for a chirurgeon , to take out all the said pieces of glass out of his body , which you may easily conceive could not be done without frequent incisions , and horrible and most extream pain . another person being likewise troubled with the unwelcome company of these dragoons , and having suffered extreamly at their hands , without the expected success of his conversion , one of them on a time looking earnestly upon him , told him , that he disfigured himself with letting his beard grow so long ; but he answering , that they were the cause of it , who would not let him stir out of door , for to go to the barber ; the dragoon reply'd , i can do that for you as well as the barber , and with that told him , he must needs try his skill upon him , and so fell to work , but instead of shaving him , flea'd all the skin off his face : one of his companions coming in at the cry of this poor sufferer , and seeing what he had done , seemingly blam'd him for it , and said , he was a bunglar , and then to his host , come your hair wants cutting too , and you shall see i will do it much better than he hath shav'd you : and thereupon begins in a most cruel manner , to pluck the hair , skin and all , off his head , and flea'd that as the other had done his chin. thus making a sport and merriment of the extream suffering of these miserable wretches . by these inhumane , and more than barbarous means , it is that they endeavour to overcome the most resolved patience , and to drive people to despair and faint-heartedness , by their more then devilish inventions . they refuse to give them death , which they desire , and only keep them alive to torment them , so long till they have vanquish'd their perseverance , for the names of martyrs and rebels are equally odious to their enemies , who tell them , that the king will have obedient subjects , but neither martyrs nor rebels , and that they have received orders to convert them , but not to kill them . sir , i beg your pardon for having so long entertain'd you with these more then tragical passages , and that you would not be wanting to recommend the condition of these poor , destitute , afflicted , and tortured persons , to the bowels of compassion of our heavenly father , that he would be pleased not to suffer them to be tempted above what he shall give them grace to bear ; which is , the hearty prayer of , your faithful friend , t. g. the profession of the catholick , apostolick , and roman faith , which the revolting protestants in france are to subscribe and swear to . in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , amen . i believe and confess with a firm faith , all and every thing and things contained in the creed which is used by the holy church of rome , viz. i receive and embrace most sincerely the apostolick and ecclesiastical traditions , and other observances of the said church . in like manner i receive the scriptures , but in the same sense as the said mother church hath , and doth now understand and expound the same , for whom and to whom it only doth belong to judge of the interpretation of the sacred scriptures ; and i will never take them , nor understand them otherwise than according to the unanimous consent of the fathers . i profess that there be truly and properly seven sacraments of the new law , instituted by our lord jesus christ , and necessary for the salvation of mankind , altho not equally needful for every one , viz. baptism , confirmation , the eucharist , penance , extream vnction , orders and marriage ; and that they do confer grace ; and that baptism and orders may not be reiterated without sacriledge : i receive and admit also the ceremonies received and approved by the catholick church in the solemn administration of the forementioned sacraments . i receive and embrace all and every thing and things which have been determined concerning original sin and justification by the holy council of trent . i likewise profess , that in the mass there is offered up to god , a true , proper , and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and dead ; and that in the holy sacrament of the eucharist , there is truly , really , and substantially , the body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of the lord jesus christ ; and that in it there is made a change of the whole substance of the bread into his body , and of the whole substance of the wine into his blood , which change the catholick church calls transubstantiation . i confess also , that under one only of these two elements , whole christ and the true sacrament is received . i constantly believe and affirm , that there is a purgatory , and that the souls there detained , are relieved by the suffrages of the faithful . in like manner , i believe that the saints reigning in glory with jesus christ , are to be worshipped and invocated by us , and that they offer up prayers to god for us , and that their reliques ought to be honoured . moreover , i do most stedfastly avow , that the images of jesus christ , of the blessed virgin , the mother of god , and of other saints , ought to be kept and retained , and that due honour and veneration must be yielded unto them . also i do affirm , that the power of indulgence was left to the church by christ jesus , and that the use thereof is very beneficial to christians . i do acknowledge the holy catholick , apostolick , and roman church , to be the mother and mistress of all other churches ; and i profess and swear true obedience to the pope of rome , successor of the blessed st. peter , prince of the apostles , and vicar of jesus christ . in like manner iown and profess , without doubting , all other things left defined and declared by the holy canons and general councils , especially by the most holy council of trent ; and withal , i do condemn , reject , and hold for accursed , all things that are contrary thereto ; and all those heresies which have been condemned , rejected , and accursed by the church . and then swearing upon the book of the gospel , the party recanting must say : i promise , vow , and swear , and most constantly profess , by gods assistance , to keep entirely and inviolably , unto death , this self same catholick and apostolick faith , out of which no person can be saved ; and this i do most truly and willingly profess , and that i will to the utmost of my power , endeavour that it may be maintain'd and upheld as far as any ways belong to my charge ; so help me god and the holy virgin. the certificate which the party recanting is to leave with the priest , before whom he makes his abjuration . i n. n. of the parish of n. do certifie all whom it way concern , that having acknowledged the falsness of the pretended reformed , and the truth of the catholick religion , of my own free-will , without any compulsion , i have accordingly made profession of the said catholick and roman religion in the church of n. in the hands of n. n. in testimony of the truth whereof , i have signed this act in the presence of the witnesses whose names are under written , this — day of the month of the — year of the reign of our soveraign lord the king , and of our redemption — . a declaration of the elector of brandenburg , in favour of the french protestants who shall settle themselves in any of his dominions . we frederick william by the grace of god marquess of brandenburg , arch-chamberlain , and prince elector of the holy empire ; duke of prussia , magdeburg , juilliers , cleves , bergen , stettin , pomerania , of the cassubes , vandals , and silesia , of crosne and jagerndorff , burg-grave , of noremberg ; prince of halberstads , minde and camin ; earl of hohenzollern , of the mark and ravensberg ; lord of ravenstein , lawneburg , and butow , do declare and make known to all to whom these presents shall come . that whereas the persecutions and rigorous proceedings which have been carried on for some time in france , against those of the reformed religion , have forced many families to leave that kingdom , and to seek for a settlement elsewhere , in strange and forreign countries ; we have been willing , being touched with that just compassion , we are bound to have for those who suffer for the gospel , and the purity of that faith , we profess , together with them , by this present declaration , signed with our own hand , to offer to the said protestants a sure and free retreat in all the countries and provinces under our dominion , and withal to declare the several rights , immunities , and priviledges , which we are willing they shall enjoy there , in order to the relieving and easing them in some measure of the burthen of those calamities , wherewith it hath pleased the divine providence to afflict so considerable a part of his church . i. to the end that all those who shall resolve to settle themselves in any of our dominions , may with the more ease and convenience transport themselves thither , we have given order to our envoy extradinary with the states general of the united provinces , sieur diest , and to our commissary in the city of amsterdam , sieur romswinkel , at our charge , to furnish all those of the said religion ( who shall address themselves unto them ) with what vessels and provisions they shall stand in need of , for the transportation of themselves , their goods and families from holland to the city of hamburg ; where then our counsellor and resident for the circle of the lower saxony , sieur guerick , shall furnish them with all conveniencies they may stand in need of , to convey them further , to whatsoever city or province they shall think fit to pitch upon for the place of their abode . ii. those who shall come from the parts of france about sedan , as from champagne , lorain , burgundy , or from any of the southern provinces of that kingdom , and who think it not convenient to pass through holland , may betake themselves to the city frankfort upon maine , and there address themselves to sieur merain , our counsellor and agent in the said city , or in the city of cologne to sieur lely our agent , to whom we have also given command to furnish them with money , pasports , and boats , in order to the carrying them down the river rhine , to our dutchy of cleves and mark ; or in case they shall desire to go further up in our dominions , our said ministers and officers shall furnish them with address and conveniencies for to arrive at those several respective places . iii. and forasmuch as the said our provinces are stored with all sorts of conveniencies and commodities , not only for the necessity of living , but also for manufactures , commerce and trade by sea and by land , those who are willing to settle themselves in any of our said provinces , may choose such place , as they please in the country of cleve , mark , ravensberg and minde , or in those of magdeburg , halberstadt , brandenburg , pomerania , and prussia . and forasmuch as we conceive that in our electoral marquisate , the cities stendel , werbe , rathenow , brandenburg and frankfort ; and in the countrey of magdeburg , the cities of magdenburg , halle , and calbe ; and in prussia , the city of konigsberg will be most commodious , as well for the great abundance of all necessaries of life , which may be had there at cheap rates ; as for the convenience of trade and traffick , we have given charge that as soon as any of the said french protestants shall arrive in any of the said cities , they shall be kindly received , and agreed with about all those things which shall be thought needful for their settlement . and for the rest , leaving them at their full liberty to dispose of themselves in whatsoever city or province they shall judge most commodious and best suiting with their occasions . iv. all the goods , houshold-stuff , merchandise and commodities which they shall bring along with them , shall not be lyable to any custome or impost , but shall be wholly exempt from all charges and impositions of what name or nature soever they may be . v. and in case that in any of the cities , towns , or villages where the said persons of the reformed religion do intend to settle themselves , there be found any ruinous and decay'd houses , or such as stand empty , and which the proprietors are not in a condition to repair , we will cause the same to be assigned to them , the said french protestants , as their propriety , and to their heirs for ever ; and shall content the present proprietors according to the value of the said houses , and shall wholly free the same from all charges , to which the same might stand engaged , whether by mortgage , debts , or any other way whatsoever . furthermore , our will is , that they be furnished with timber , quick-lime , stones , bricks , and other materials , they may stand in need of for the repairing of whatsoever is decay'd or ruinous in any of the said houses , which shall for six years be exempt from all sorts of impositions , free-quarter , and all other charges whatsoever , neither shall the said french , during the said time of six years , be lyable to any payments whatsoever , but what are chargeable upon things of daily consumption . vi. in cities or elsewhere , where convenient places shall be found , for to build houses , those of the reformed religion , who shall make their retreat into our dominions , shall be fully authorized and impowered to take possession of the same , for themselves and their heirs after them , together with all the gardens , fields , and pasture grounds belonging to the same , without being oblig'd to pay any of the dues and charges with which the said places or their dependances may be incumbred . moreover , for the facilitating their building in any of the said place , we will cause them to be furnished with all the materials they shall stand in need of ; and will over and above allow them ten years of exemption , during which they shall not be lyable to any other charges or payments , besides the dues charged upon things of daily spending . and furthermore , forasmuch as our intent is , to make their settlement in our dominions the most easie and commodious for them that may be ; we have given command to our magistrates and other officers in the said provinces , to make enquiry in every city for houses that are to be lett , into which it shall be free for the said french to enter , and take up their lodging as soon as they shall arrive ; and do promise to pay for them and their families for four years , the rent of the said houses , provided that they engage themselves , within the said term , to build in such places as shall be assigned to them , in manner , and upon condition as aforesaid . vii . as soon as they shall have taken up their habitation in any city or town of our dominions , they shall immediately be made free of the place , as also of that particular corporation , which by their trade or profession they belong to , and shall enjoy the self same rights and priviledges , which the citizens , burgesses , and freemen of the said places or corporations do enjoy , and that without being obliged to pay any thing for the said freedome , and without being lyable to the law of escheatage , or any other of what nature soever they may be , which in other countries are in force against strangers ; but shall be look'd upon , and treated upon all accounts , in the same manner , as our own natural subjects . viii . all those who are willing to undertake and establish any manufactures , whether of cloath , stuffs , hats , or any other whatsoever , shall not only be furnished with all the priviledges ; pattents , and franchises , which they can wish for , or desire ; but moreover we will take care that they be assisted with moneys , and such other provisions and necessaries as shall be thought fit to promote and make their undertaking successful . ix . to countreymen and others who are willing to settle themselves in the countrey , we will cause a certain extent of ground to be allotted for them to till and cultivate , and give orders for their being assisted and furnished with all things necessary for their subsistence , at the beginning of their settlement , in like manner as we have done to a considerable number of swiss-families , who are come to dwell in our dominions . x. and as for any business of law , or matter of difference which may arise amongst those of the reformed religion , we do grant and allow that in those cities where any considerable number of french families shall be setled , they be authorized to choose on from amongst themselves , who shall have full power to decide the said differences in a friendly way , without any formality of law whatsoever : and in case any differences shall arise between the germans and the said french , that then the said differences shall be decided joyntly by the magistrate of the place , and by the person whom the french shall have chosen for that purpose from amongst themselves . and the same shall be done when the differences of frenchmen , amongst themselves , cannot be accomodated in the forementioned friendly way , by the person thereto by them elected . xi . in any city where any numbers of french shall settle themselves , we will maintain a minister , and appoint a convenient place for the publick exercise of religion in the french tongue , according to the custome , and with the same ceremonies which are in use amongst the reformed in france . xii . and forasmuch as such of the nobility of france who heretofore have put themselves under our protection , and entered into our service , do actually enjoy the same honours , dignities , and immunities with those of the countrey ; and that there are many sound amongst them , who have been raised to the chief places and charges of our court , and command over our forces , we are ready and willing to continue the same favour to those of the said nobility , who for time to come shall settle themselves in our dominions , by bestowing upon them the several charges , honours and dignities they shall be found fitted for . and in case they shall purchase any mannors or lordships , they shall possess them with all the rights , prerogatives , and immunities , which the nobility of our own dominions do of right enjoy . xiii . all these priviledges and advantages forementioned , shall not only be extended to those french of the reformed religion who shall arrive in our dominions ( in order to their setling there ) after the date of this declaration , but also to those , who before the date hereof , have setled themselves in our countries , provided they have been forced to leave france upon account of their religion ; they of the romish profession being wholly excluded from any part or share therein . xiv . in every one of our provinces , dutchies , and principalities , we shall appoint and establish certain commissioners , to whom the french of the reformed religion , may have recourse and address themselves upon all occasions of need , and this not only at the beginning of their settlement , but also afterwards . and all governours and magistrates of our provinces and territories , shall have order by vertue of these presents , as well as by other particular commands , we shall issue forth , to take the said persons of the reformed religion into their protection , and to maintain them in all the priviledges here before-mentioned , and not suffer the least hurt or injury to be done unto them , but rather all manner of favour , aide and assistance . given at postdam , octob. . . signed . frederick william . kind reader , because in the edict of the french king , the perpetual and irrevocable edict of nantes is recall'd and abolished , i thought fit ( because the whole edict would be too long to be inserted here ) to give you some passages of the prefatory part of it , whereby it may appear what stress was laid on it by henry the iv. ( called the great ) grandfather to the present french king , and how much he judged the exact maintaining of it would conduce to the settlement , peace , and prosperity of his kingdom . — now it hath pleased god to give us a beginning of enjoying some rest , we think we cannot employ our selves better , than to apply to that which may tend to the service and glory of his holy name , and to provide that he may be adored and prayed to by all our subjects ; and if it hath not yet pleased him to permit it to be in one and the same form of religion , that it may at the least be with one and the same intention , and with such rules , that may prevent amongst them all troubles and tumults ; and that we and this kingdom may always conserve the glorious title of most christian , and by the same means take away the cause of mischief and trouble , which may happen from the actions of religion , which of all others are most prevalent and penetrating . for this cause , acknowledging this affair to be of the greatest importance , and worthy of the best consideration , after having considered the papers of complaints of our catholick subjects , and having also permitted to our subjects of the reformed religion , to assemble themselves by deputies for framing their complaints , and making a collection of all their remonstrances , and having thereupon conferred divers times with them , we have upon the whole judged it necessary , to give to all our said subjects one general law , clear , plain , and absolute , by which they shall be regulated in all differences , which have heretofore risen among them , on which may rise hereafter , wherewith the one and the other may be contented , having had no other regard in this deliberation , than solely the zeal we have to the service of god , praying that he would henceforward grant to all our subjects a durable and established peace : and we implore and expect from his divine bounty the same protection and favour he hath always bestowed upon this kingdom from our birth , and that he would give our said subjects the grace to understand , that in observation of this our ordinance , consisteth ( next to their duty towards god and us ) the principal foundation of their union , concord , tranquility , rest , and the re-establishment of this estate in its first splendor , opulency and strength , as on our part we promise all to be exactly observed , without suffering any contravention . and for these causes , having with the advice of the princes of our blood , other princes and officers of our crown , and other great and eminent persons of our council of state , well and diligently weighed and considered all this affair ; we have by this edict or statute , perpetual and irrevocable said , declared , and ordained , &c. — finis . vvholesome severity reconciled with christian liberty. or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience. here you have the question stated, the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved, and also confirmed from scripture, and the testimonies of divines, yea of whole churches: the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent, the compassionate samaritane, m.s. to a.s. &c. examined. eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter. and in conclusion a parænetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather then toleration. imprimatur. ia. cranford. decemb . . gillespie, george, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) vvholesome severity reconciled with christian liberty. or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience. here you have the question stated, the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved, and also confirmed from scripture, and the testimonies of divines, yea of whole churches: the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent, the compassionate samaritane, m.s. to a.s. &c. examined. eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter. and in conclusion a parænetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather then toleration. imprimatur. ia. cranford. decemb . . gillespie, george, - . [ ], p. printed for christopher meredith, and are to be sold at the signe of the crane in pauls churchyard, london : . attributed to george gillespie. annotation on thomason copy: the in the imprint date is crossed out; " "; "jan: th". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng williams, roger, ?- . -- bloody tenent yet more bloody. walwyn, william, - . -- compassionate samaritane. liberty of conscience -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no vvholesome severity reconciled with christian liberty. or, the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience.: gillespie, george f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vvholsome severity reconciled with christian liberty . or , the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience . here you have the question stated , the middle way betwixt popish tyrannie and schismatizing liberty approved , and also confirmed from scripture , and the testimonies of divines , yea of whole churches : the chiefe arguments and exceptions used in the bloudy tenent , the compassionate samaritane , m. s. to a. s. &c. examined . eight distinctions added for qualifying and clearing the whole matter . and in conclusion a paraenetick to the five apologists for choosing accommodation rather then toleration . imprimatur . ia. cranford . decemb. . . august . contra primam gaudentii epist. c. . ab●● autem ut ista persecutio dicenda sit hominum , cum sit potius pro hominibus liberandis persecutio vitiorum , qualem facit aegris etiam diligentia medieorum . idem contra epist. parmen. lib. . cap. . prius enim probent se non esse haereticos vel schismaticos , tum demum de indignis poenis suis lividam emittant vocem , &c. nos corporum persecutores vocant , se animarum interfectores non vocant . london , printed for christopher meredith , and are to be sold at the signe of the crane in pauls churchyard . . to the christian and courteous reader . it cannot be unknown to any , except such as are ignorant of satans devices , and altogether strangers to the histories of former times , that when the church commeth out of idolatry , and out of bitter servitude and grievous pressures of conscience , all her storms are not over her head , but she begins to be assaulted and afflicted more then before with heresies , schismes , and home-bred disturbances . which through the manifold wisdome and over-ruling dispensation of god , who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will , is englands lot this day , that this may be to those in whom the lord hath no pleasure , a stone of stumbling , and a rock of offence , that they may goe and fall back ward , and be broken ; & snared , and taken : that others , who are approved , may be made manifest ; yea , that many may be purified , and tried , and made white ; and that in the issue god may have the greater glory in making a soveraign remedy out of poysonfull ingredients , and his people may say , blessed be the lord god of israel who only doth wondrous things . but now will the sectaries be contented ( as christs witnesses in former times were ) to be examined and judged according to the word of god , and if they be found to be what they are accused to be , then to suffer accordingly ? nay , if so , they fear they shall run too great a hazard . therefore they cry out for toleration and liberty of conscience , hereby going about not only themselves to fish in troubled waters , but to improve at once the manifold advantages of sympathising with the principles of the most part of men amongst us ; for as it is a common plea and bond of union among all hereticks and sectaries , how many soever their divisions and subdivisions be among themselves ; yea , they give ( in this ) the right hand of fellowship to the prelaticall and malignant party , for they also put in for liberty of conscience : and as carnall and prophane men desire nothing more then that they may not be compelled to any religious duty , but permitted to doe what seem good in their own eies . so liberty of conscience is a sweet and taking word among the lesse discerning sort of godly people , newly come out of the house of bondage , out of the popish and prelaticall tyranny ; i say the lesse discerning sort , because those of the godly who have their senses exercised to discern good and evill , know that liberty of heresie and schisme is no part of the liberty of conscience which christ hath purchased to us at so dear a rate . but is there no golden book and taking bait for the magistrate ? yes sure ; for his part he is told that he may punish any breach of peace or civill justice , or a trespasse against the state and against civill authority , but yet not put forth his power against any man for heresie or schisme , being matters of religion and of conscience . as if both polititians and divines had been in a great error when they said that the end and use of magistracy is to make bonum hominem , as well as bonum civem , a good man as well as a good commonwealths man . shall i adde further , that all who wish well to the publike from principles either of religion or policy , want not here their own tentations , perswading to a toleration of sectaries , in regard of the necessity of an union against the common adversary , and the great hazard , if not certain ruine , of the cause , by our own ruptures ? vnder these fair colours and handsome pretexts doe sectaries infuse their poyson , i mean their pernicious , god-provoking , truth-defacing , church ruinating , & state-shaking toleration . the plain english of the question is this : whether the christian magistrate be keeper of both tables : whether he ought to suppresse his own enemies , but not gods enemies , and preserve his own ordinances , but not christs ordinances frō violation . whether the troublers of israel may be troubled . whether the wilde boars and beasts of the forest must have leave to break down the hedges of the lords vineyard ; and whether ravening wolves in sheeps clothing must be permitted to converse freely in the flock of christ . whether after the black devil of idolatry and tyranny is trod under our feet , a white devill of heresie and schisme , under the name of tender consciences , must be admitted to walk up and down among us . whether not only pious and peaceable men , ( whom i shall never consent to persecute ) but those also who are as a pestilence or a gangrene in the body of christ , men of corrupt minds and turbulent spirits , who draw factions after them , make a breach and rent in israel , resist the truth and reformation of religion , spread abroad all the ways they can their pernicious errors , and by no other means can be reduced ; whether those also ought to be spared and let alone . i have endeavoured in this following discourse to vindicate the lawfull , yea necessary use of the coercive power of the christian magistrate in suppressing and punishing hereticks and sectaries , according as the degree of their offence and of the churches danger shal require : which when i had done , there came to my hands a book called the storming of antichrist . indeed , the recruting of antichrist , and the storming of zion , ( if so be that i may anabaptize an anabaptists book ) take one passage for instance , pa. . and for papists , saith he , though they are least to be borne of all others , because of the uncertainty of their keeping faith with hereticks , as they call us , and because they may be absolved of securements that can arise from the just solemn oaths , and because of their cruelty against the protestants in divers countries where they get the upper hand , and because they are profest idolaters , yet may they be born with ( as i suppose with submission to better judgments ) in protestant government , in point of religion , because we have no command to root out any for conscience , &c. why then ? is this to storm antichrist ? or is it not rather a storming of this party , in the prevailing whereof god will have far more glory then in the prevailing of the popish and prelaticall party , as himself speaketh , pa. . and if he will storm , sure some of his ladders are too short . if any one rail against christ ( saith he , p. . ) or deny the scriptures to be his word , or affirm the epistles to be only letters written to particular churches , and no rule for us , and so unsettle our faith , this i take may be punished by the magistrate , because all or most nations in the world doe it . that all the nations in the world doe punish for these things , i am yet to learn : and those that doe , doe they not also punish men for other ways of unsetling the grounds of faith besides these ? the declining of some of the epistles as being letters written upon particular occasions , and no rule for us , is an error which hath been pretended to be no lesse conscientious then those errors which now he will have indulged . lastly , if he would needs storm , why would he not make some new breach ? i find no materiall arguments in him for liberty of conscience , but what i found before in the bloudy tenent , the compassionate samaritane , and m. s. to a. s. so that my ensuing answers to them shall serve his turn . and now reader buy the truth , and sell it not . search for knowledge as for hid treasures . if thou readest with a unprejudiced mind , i dare promise thee through gods blessing a satisfied mind . the true resolution of a present controversie concerning liberty of conscience . concerning this question there are three opinions ; two extreams , and one in the middle . so it is resolved not only by d. voetius , in his late disputations de libertate conscientiae , but long before by calvin , in his refutation of the errours of servetus , where he disputeth this very question , whether christian judges may lawfully punish hereticks . the first opinion is that of the papists , who hold it to be not only no sin , but good service to god , to extirpate by fire and sword , all that are adversaries to , or opposers of the church and catholick religion . upon this ground gregorius de valentia tells us there were . of the albigenses burnt under pope innocentius the third ; and in the councell of constance were burnt john hus and hierome of pragus . suarez de triplice virtute , tract. . disp. . sect. . layeth downe these assertions . . that all hereticks who after sufficient instruction and admonition , still persist in their error , are to be without mercy put to death . . that all impenitent hereticks , though they professe to be catholicks , being convict of heresie , are to be put to death . . that relapsing hereticks , though penitent , are to be put to death without mercy . . that it is most probable , that heresiarchs , dogmatists , or the authors of an heresie , though truly penitent , yet are not to be received to favour , but delivered to the civil sword . . that a heretick who hath not relapsed , if before sentence past against him , he convert of his owne accord , he is not to bee punished with death , but with some smaller punishment , such as perpetuall imprisonment , or the like . ibid. tract. . disp. . sect. . hee saith , that schismaticks may be punished with almost all the punishments of hereticks . azor. institut . moral . tom. . lib. . cap. . vtrique verò , tum relapsi , tum alii , quando pertinaces sunt , vivi igne exuruntur : si verò pertinaces non sint , prius strangulari solent , & postea comburi . see the like , becan , summa part . . tract. . quaest. . & . turrian , in am ae disp. . dub . . some of them also maintaine the compelling of infidels to be baptized , as scotus in lib. . sent. dist. . quaest. . and they who follow him . the second opinion doth fall short , as farre as the former doth exceed : that is , that the magistrate ought not to inflict any punishment , nor put forth any coercive power uppon hereticks or sectaries , but on the contrary grant them liberty and toleration . this was the opinion of the don●tists , against which augustine hath written both much and well , in divers places : though himselfe was once in the same error , till he did take the matter into his second and better thoughts , as is evident by his retractations , lib. . cap. . & epist. . in the same error are the socinians and arminians . see pelt●i harmonia , artic. . nic. bodecher . sociniano . remonstrantismus . cap. . see also grotii apologeticus , cap. . pag. . theoph. nicolaid . refut . tractat. de ecclesia , cap. . p. . the very same is maintained in some bookes printed amongst our selves in this yeare of confusion : viz. the bloudy tenent : liberty of conscience : the compassionate samaritan : john the baptist : and by mr. goodwin in his ●eomaxia , pag. . and in his innocencies triumph , pag. . in which places he denyeth that the magistrate , and particularly that the two houses of parliament may impose any thing pertaining to the service and worship of god under mulcts or penalties . so m. s. to a. s. pag. . . . &c. disputeth against the coercive power of the magistrate to suppresse heresies and sects . this power the presbyterians doe ascribe to the magistrate , as i shall shew by and by : therefore i still averre , that mr. goodwin in denying and opposing this power , doth herein ( as in divers other particulars ) ascribe much lesse to the magistrate then the presbyterians doe : which overthroweth that insinuation of the five apologists pag. . the third opinion is , that the magistrate may and ought to exercise his coercive power , in suppressing and punishing hereticks and sectaries , lesse or more , according as the nature and degree of the error , schisme , obstinacy , and danger of seducing others , doth require . this as it was the judgement of the orthodox ancients , ( vide optatiopera , edit. albaspin . pag. . . ) so it is followed by our soundest protestant writers ; most largely by beza against bellius and monfortius , in a peculiar treatise de haereticis à magistratu puniendis . and though gerhard , * brochmand , and other lutheran writers , make a controversie where they need not , alledging that the calvinists ( so nicknamed ) hold as the papists doe , that all hereticks without distinction are to be put to death : the truth is , they themselves say as much as either calvin or beza , or any other whom they take for adversaries in this question , that is , that hereticks are to be punished by mulcts , imprisonments , banishments , and if they be grosse idolaters or blasphemers , and seducers of others , then to be put to death . what is it else that calvin teacheth , when he distinguisheth three kindes of errors : some to be tolerated with a spirit of meeknesse , and such as ought not to separate betwixt brethren : others not to be tolerated , but to be suppressed with a certaine degree of severity : a third sort so abominable and pestiferous , that they are to be cut off by the highest punishments ? and lest it be thought that this is but the opinion of some few , that the magistrate ought thus by a strong hand , and by civill punishments suppresse hereticks and sectaries : let it be observed what is held forth and professed concerning this businesse , by the reformed churches in their publicke confessions of faith . in the latter confession of helvetia , cap. . it is said that the magistrate ought to root out lies and all superstition , with all impiety and idolatry . and after ; let him suppresse stubborne hereticks . in the french confession , art . . therefore he hath also delivered the sword into the hands of the magistrates , to wit , that offences may be repressed , not only those which are committed against the second table , but also against the first . in the belgick confession , art . . therefore hath he armed the magistrate with the sword for punishing them that doe evill , and for defending such as doe well . moreover it is their duty not only to be carefull and watchfull for the preservation of the civill government , but also to defend the holy ministery , and to abolish and overthrow all idolatry , and counterfeit worship of god . beza de haeret , à magistr. . puniend. . tells us in the beginning , that the ministers of helvetia had declared themselves to be of the same judgement , in a booke published of that argument . and toward the end he citeth the saxon confession , luther , melancthon , brentius , bucerus , wolsangus capito , and bullinger . the synod of dort , ses . . in their sentence against the remonstrants doth not only interdict them of all their ecclesiasticall and academicall functions , but also beseech the states generall by the secular power further to suppresse and restrain them . the arguments whereby this third or middle opinion is confirmed ( that we may not build upon humane authority ) are these . first , the law , deut. . , , , . concerning the stoning and killing of him , who shall secretly intice people , saying , let us go after other gods . if it be said , that this law did bind the jews only , and is not morall nor perpetuall . i answer , jacobus acontius , though he be of another opinion concerning this question then i am , yet he candidly and freely confesseth , that he seeth nothing in that law , which doth not belong to the new testament , as well as the old ; for saith he , the reason and ground of the law , the use and end of it , is morall and perpetuall , ver. . all israel shall hear and fear , and shall doe no more any such wickednesse , as this is among you . but yet , saith acont●us , this law doth not concern hereticks , who beleeve and teach errors concerning the true god or his worship ; but only apostates who fall away to other gods : * in this i shall not much contend with him ; only thus far , if apostates are to be stoned and killed according to that law , then surely seducing hereticks are also to receive their measure and proportion of punishment ; the morall equity of the law requireth thus much at least , that if we compare heresy and apostasy together , look how much lesse the evill of sin is in heresy , so much and no more is to be remitted of the evill of punishment , especially the danger of contagion and seducement , being as much or rather more in heresy then in apostasy ; yea , that which is called heresy being oftentimes a reall following after other gods . but the law , deut. . for punishing with death , as well whole cities as particular persons , for falling away to other gods , is not the only law for punishing even capitally grosse sins against the first table . see exod. . . he that sacrificeth unto any god , save unto the lord only , he shall be utterly destroyed , exod. . ● . every one that defileth the sabbath , shall surely be ●ut to death , levit. . . and he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , he shall surely be put to death , deut. . , , . . if there be found among you within any of thy gates , which the lord thy god giveth thee , man or woman , that hath wrought wickednesse in the sight of the lord thy god , in transgressing his covenant , and hath gone and served other gods and worshipped them , &c. thou shalt bring forth that man or that woman unto thy gates , even that man or that woman , and shalt stone them with stones till they die . it will be asked , but how doth it appear that these or any other judiciall laws of moses doe at all appertain to us , as rules to guide us in like cases ? i shall wish him who scrupleth this , to read piscator his appendix to his observations upon the , , . chapters of exodus , where he excellently disputeth this question , whether the christian magistrate be bound to observe the judicial laws of moses , as well as the jewish magistrate was . he answereth by the common distinction , he is obliged to those things in the judiciall law which are unchangeable , & common to all nations : but not to those things which are mutable , or proper to the jewish republike . but then he explaineth this distinction , that by things mutable , and proper to the jews , he understandeth the emancipation of an hebrew servant or handmaid in the seventh year , a mans marying his brothers wife and raising up seed to his brother , the forgiving of debts at the jubilee , marying with one of the same tribe , and if there be any other like to these ; also ceremoniall trespasses , as touching a dead body , &c. but things immutable , and common to all nations are the laws concerning morall trespasses , sins against the morall law , as murther , adultery , theft , enticing away from god , blasphemy , striking of parents . now that the christian magistrate is bound to observe these judiciall lawes of moses which appoint the punishments of sins against the morall law , he proveth by these reasons . . if it were not so , then it is free and arbitrary to the magistrate to appoint what punishments himself pleaseth . but this is not arbitrary to him , for he is the minister of god , rom. . . and the judgement is the lords , deut. . . chron. . . and if the magistrate be keeper of both tables , he must keep them in such manner as god hath delivered them to him . . christs words , mat. . . think not that i am come to destroy the law or the prophets , i am not come to destroy , but to fulfill , are comprehensive of the judiciall law , it being a part of the law of moses ; now he could not fulfill the judiciall law , except either by his practice , or by teaching others still to observe it ; not by his own practice , for he would not condemn the adulteresse , joh. . . nor divide the inheritance , luke . , . therefore it must be by his doctrine for our observing it . . if christ in his sermon , mat. . would teach that the morall law belongeth to us christians , in so much as he vindicateth it from the false glosses of the scribes & pharisees ; then he meant to hold forth the judiciall law concerning morall trespasses as belonging to us also : for he vindicateth and interpreteth the judiciall law , as well as the morall , mat. . . an eye for an eye , &c. . if god would have the morall law transmitted from the jewish people to the christian people ; then he would also have the judiciall law transmitted from the jewish magistrate to the christian magistrate : there being the same reason of immutability in the punishments , which is in the offences ; idolatry and adultery displeaseth god now as much as then ; and theft displeaseth god now no more then before . . whatsoever things were written aftertime , were written for our learning ▪ rom. . . and what shall the christian magistrate learn from those judiciall laws , but the will of god to be his rule in like cases ? the ceremoniall law was written for our learning , that we might know the fulfilling of all those types , but the judiciall law was not typicall . . doe all to the glory of god , cor. . ● . mat. ● . . how shall christian magistrates glorifie god more then by observing gods own laws , as most just , and such as they cannot make better ? . whatsoever is not of faith is sin , rom. . . now when the christian magistrate punisheth 〈◊〉 against the morall law , if he doe this in faith and in assurance of pleasing god , he must have his assurance from the word of god , for faith can build upon no other foundation : it is the word which must assure the conscience , god hath commanded such a thing , therefore it is my duty to doe it , god hath not forbidden such a thing , therefore i am free to doe it . but the will of god concerning civill justice and punishments is no where so fully and cleerly revealed as in the judiciall law of moses . this therefore must be the surest prop and stay to the conscience of the christian magistrate . these are not my reasons ( if it be not a word or two added by way of explaining and strengthning ) but the substance of piscators reasons : unto which i adde , . though we have clear and full scriptures in the new testament for abolishing the ceremoniall law yet we no where reade in all the new testament of the abol●shing of the judicial law , so far as it did concern the punishing of sins against the morall law , of which heresy and seducing of souls is one , and a great one . once god did reveal his will for punishing those sins by such and such punishments . he who will hold that the christian magistrate is not bound to inflict such punishments for such sins , is bound to prove that those former lawes of god are abolished , and to shew some scripture for it . . that iudiciall law for having two or three witnesses in judgement , deut. . . heb. . . is transferred even with an obligation to us christians , and it concerneth all judgement , as well ecclesiasticall as civill , mat. . . cor. . . and some 〈◊〉 particulars might be instanced in , which are pressed and enforced from the iudiciall law , by some who yet mind not the obligation of it . to conclude therefore this point , though other judiciall or forensecall laws concerning the punishments of sins against the morall law , may , yea , must be allowed of in christian republikes and kingdomes ; provided always , they be not contrary or contradictory to gods own iudiciall laws : yet i fear not to hold with junius , de politia mosis cap. , that he who was punishable by death under that iudiciall law , is punishable by death still ; and he who was not punished by death then , is not to be punished by death now ; and so much for the first argument from the law of god . a second argument we have from divers laudable examples in the old testament ; moses drew the sword against idolaters , exod. . . the children of israel resolved to go out to war against the reubenites and gadites , when they understood that they were building another altar . jos. . . elijah commanded to slay the priests of baal , kings . . in asa his time there was a covenant for putting to death such as would not seek the lord god of their fathers , chro. . . iehu slew the priests of ahab , and the worshippers of baal , kings . . . first , searching and making sure that there were none of the servants of the lord among them , ver. . iosiah sacrificed the priests of samaria upon their own altars , kings . . nebuchadnezzar , though an heathē , being convinced that there was no god like the god of israel , made a decree , that whosoever speaketh blasphemy , or uttereth any error against god , shall be out in pieces , and their houses made a dunghill , dan. . . as for those whose errors and corruptions in religion were not so great , there was some ( though not the highest ) severity used against them : moses was so angry with the people that were seduced into idolatry , that he burnt the calf which they had worshipped , and ground it to powder , and strewed it upon the water , and made the children of israel to drinke of it , exod. . . thereby teaching them ( as hierome and others give the reason ) to abhorre that idolatry , while their idoll did passe from them among their own excrements . asa did remove his mother maachah from being queen , because of an idoll which she had made in a grove , kings . . josiah caused all that were present in jerusalem and benjamin to stand to the covenant . chron. . . which could not be without either threatning or inflicting punishment upon the transgressors ; there being many at that time disaffected to the reformation . o but saith m. s. to a. s. pag. , . idolatry and idolaters were the adaequate object of that coercive power in matters of religion , whereof we reade in the old testament . nor doe we read that ever the lewish kings or magistrates attempted any thing against sectaries or schismaticks . i answer , . the object of that coercive power of josiah , chron. . . was generally the matter of the covenant , that is , the taking away not only of idolatry , but of all abominations , and a walking after the lord , and keeping of his testimonies , and statutes , and commandments , ver. . . nehemiah did drive away the son of eliashib the high priest , not for idolatry , but for marying the daughter of sanballat , and thereby defiling the covenant of the priesthood , nehem. . , . ezra made the chief priests , the levites , and all israel to enter into a covenant and to swear , that they would put away the strange wives , and that it should be done according to the law , ezra . . . and whosoever would not come to ierusalem for this thing , was not only himself excommunicated from the church , but all his goods forfeited . v. . artaxerxes decreed punishment for all who should oppose the law of god , and the building of the temple : wherein he is so far approved , as that ezra blesseth god for it , ezra . , . whosoever will not doe the law of thy god , and the law of the king , let judgement be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or unto banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or imprisonment , &c. which doth not concern idolatry only , but generally the laws of god , v. . set magistrates and iudges which may judge all the people , all such as know the laws of thy god . he who wrote liberty of conscience , p. , . is so far confounded with this laudable decree of artaxerxes , that he can say no more to it , but that it was the commandment of god , not an invention of men which artaxerxes did thus impose , which is as much as we desire . but . sects and schismes are to be punished as well , though not as much as heresy and idolatry . there are degrees of faults , and accordingly degrees of punishments . augustine wrote an epistle to bonifacius upon this occasion , to shew that the donatists had nothing to doe with the arrians , and so were not to be punished with such rigour and severity ; yet he adviseth that moderate mulcts and punishments may be laid upon them , & that their bishops or ministers may be banished . in his epist. he intercedeth most earnestly with the proconsul of africk , that he might not put to death the donatists , but represse them some other ways . we have also a scripture example for punishing sectaries who are not hereticks . it is agreed among interpreters , there were in iudah two sorts of high places , some on which god was worshipped , others on which idols were worshipped , & it is most manifest from chro. . . and from the reconciling of chro. . . with ch. . . . the one sort was the high places of idolatry , the other , the high places of wil-worship ; yet the priests of the latter , as well as of the former , were punished by iosiah , as tostatus proveth from kings . and the text it self is clear , for he put to death the priests of sama●ia , who had sacrificed in the high places of idolatry , vers. . but as for those who sacrificed in the high places of wil-worship , because they sacrificed to the lord only ( as the word is , chron. . . ) therefore iosiah did not put them to death , only he caused them to goe out of all the cities of judah , and to cease from the priests office , so that they durst not come up to the altar of the lord at jerusalem , only they were permitted to eat of the unleavened bread among their brethren , ver. , . which is parallel to that law , ezek. . ver , , , , , . a prophecy concerning the christian temple , and the times of the new testament , wth reacheth a blow to another silly & short-sighted evasion , used both in the bloudy tenent , and in m. s. to a.s. that all this coercive power exercised in the old testament , was typicall , & therefore not imitable now in the new testament . whereunto i further reply , . the reason of all that coercive severity was morall and perpetuall , as was shewed before from deut. . . next , why did they not prove that it was typicall ? shall we take their fancy for a certainty ? they have neither scripture nor interpreters for it . . they confound the judiciall lawes of moses with the ceremoniall , making the judicatories and justice typicall no lesse then the ceremonies . . they doe utterly overthrow the investiture of christian princes and magistrates with any power at all in matters of religion , from the old testament . so that one may not argue thus : the godly kings of judah did remove the monuments of idolatry and superstition , therefore so should the christian magistrate doe . the most arrant malignant may answer in the words of mr. williams , chap. . that the civill power or state of israel , so farre as it attended upon the spirituall , was meerly figurative : or in the words of m. s. pag. . there are two reasons very considerable why the kings of judah might be invested by god with a larger power in matters of religion , then kings or magistrates under the gospel have any ground or warrant to claime from them . first , they were types of christ ( but by the way how doth he prove that asa , jehu , and josiah were types of christ ? ) which no king under heaven at this day is . secondly , not the people onely , but the very land over which they ruled were typicall . . the punishment of persons was a part of their reformation , as well as the destruction of monuments , and why must we follow their example in the one , more then the other ? if we smart under both their diseases , we must apply both their remedies , or neither . the third argument is drawne from the new testament . the magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine , for he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath on him that doth evill , rom. . . but i assume ; hereticks and sectaries doe evill , yea much evill , especially when they draw many others after them in their pernicious wayes . it was the observation of one of the greatest politicians of this kingdome , that heresies and schismes are of all others the greatest scandalls : yea more then corruption of manners . one of his reasons is , because every sect of them hath a diverse posture or cringe by themselves , which cannot but move derision in worldlings , and depraved politicks , who are apt to contemne holy things . i know it will be answered , if any sectary make a breach of peace , or disturb the state , then indeed the magistrate ought to redresse it by a coercive power . so john the baptist , pag. . so mr. williams , chap. . answereth , rom. . . is not meant of evill against the christian estate , but of evill against the civill state . m. s. pag. . . tells us that he is not for the toleration of sects and schismes , except only upon this supposition , that the professors or maintainers of them be otherwise peaceable in the state , and every wayes subject to the lawes and lawfull power of the civill magistrate . i answer , the experience of former times may make us so wise as to foresee that heresie and schisme tendeth to the breach of the civill peace , and to a rupture in the state as well as in the church . what commotions did the arrians make in all the easterne parts ? the macedonians in greece ? the donatists in africke ? how did the anabaptists raise and soment the bloudy warre of the boores in germany , wherein were killed above men ? tantum relligio potuit suadere malorum . how satanicall was julians designe to bring the christians to nought , by granting liberty of conscience to all the hereticks and sectaries that were among them ? but suppose the commonwealth to runne no hazard by the toleration of heresies and schismes , i answer further , . the text , rom. . . speaketh generally , and we must not distinguish where the scripture doth not distinguish . . those that are in authority are to take such courses and so to rule , that we may not onely lead a quiet and peaceable life , but further that it be in all godlinesse and honesty , tim. . . the magistrate is keeper of both tables , and is to punish the violation of the first table , as well as of the second . . will any man , saith angustine , who is in his right wit , say to kings , doe not care by whom the church of god in your kingdome be maintained or opposed : it doth not concerne you in your kingdome , who will be religious , who sacrilegious : to whom notwithstanding it cannot bee said , it doth not concerne you in your kingdome , who be chaste , who whorish , &c. is the soules keeping faith and truth to god a l●ghter matter , then that of a woman to a man ? he confesseth in the same epistle , that he and some other african divines were sometime of that opinion , that the emperour should not at all punish the donatists for their heresie or error , but such of them only as should be found to commit any riot or breach of peace , especially the furious and violent circumcellions . but afterward he confesseth that the emperour had as good reason to represse their pernicious error , as their furious violence . a fourth argument is drawne from the names which the scripture giveth to hereticks and sectaries , holding forth the extreame danger of tolerating and letting them alone . they are called ravening wolves , matth. . . and grievous wolves not sparing the flocke , act. . . theeves and robbers , john . . their word eateth as a canker , tim. . . and is as a little leaven leavening the whole lumpe , gal. . . they are troublers of israel , act. . . gal. . . shall the troublers of the state be punished , and the troublers of israel go free ? shal physitians cut off the member that hath a gangrene in it , because it indangereth the whole body , and shall the great state physitians suffer the gangrene to spread in the church ? shall mens bodies , goods , and purses , be so farre cared for , that theeves and robbers must not be suffered , but justice done upon them ; and shall those have immunity who steale away soules from christ , and rob us of the pearle of truth ? nay shall the poore sheepe be so much looked to , that the wolfe must not be spared ; and shall we suffer the soule-destroying wolves to enter , yea abide peaceably among the dear-bought flock of jesus christ ? other arguments might be added , but let these suffice at this present . i come next to answer all the materiall objections which i have either read or heard ( to my best remembrance ) alledged against this coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion . first , the parable of the tares is objected : christ will not have the tares to be pluckt up , but to grow together with the wheat untill the harvest , mat. . . . in this argument mr. williams in his bloudy tenent putteth a great deale of confidence . but i am as confident to discover the strength of it to be lesse then nothing . for first he taketh the tares to be meant neither of hypocrites in the church , whether discovered or undiscovered ; nor yet of those who are scandalous offenders in their life and conversation , but only of antichristian idolaters and false worshippers : which is a most false interpretation . christ himselfe expoundeth it generally , vers. . the good seed are the children of the kingdome : but the tares are the children of the wicked one . and vers. . the tares are expounded to be all that offend , and which doe iniquity . this being the cleare meaning , it will follow undeniably , that if the magistrate must spare those who are meant by tares in the parable , then he must spare and let alone all scandalous offenders , murtherers , adulterers , drunkards , theeves , &c. when any such are discovered in the visible church . but this cannot be the meaning of the tares in the parable , saith mr. williams , chap. . that wicked livers , opposite to the children of god , should be understood . for then , saith he , when christ saith , let the tares alone , he should contradict other ordinances for the punishment of evill doers by the magistrate . but this is a base begging of the question : for he well knew that those against whom he disputes hold that his exposition of the parable contradicteth the ordinance of god for punishing idolaters and hereticks , the question being whether this be not an ordinance as well as the punishment of scandalous livers . besides , if the tares be antichristian idolaters , and they must not be pluckt up , but suffered to grow till the harvest , as he expoundeth , this contradicteth other scriptures , which say that the sword must be drawne against antichristian idolaters , and they thereby cut off , revel. . . and . . but i proceed to a second answer . if by tares i should suppose only to be meant idolaters , hereticks , and false worshippers ( which is a glosse contrary to the text , as i have demonstrate ) yet their argument will not conclude the forbearing or sparing of such , except onely in such cases , and so farre as the true worshippers of god cannot be certainly and infallibly dignosced from the false worshippers , as the wheat from the tares : as jehu would not destroy the worshippers of baal , till he was sure that none of the servants of the lord were among them , king. . . the reason why the tares are not to be pluckt up , is , lest while ye gather up the tares , ye root up also the wheat with them , vers. . now when a man is sure that he plucks up nothing but tares , or rather thornes , without the least danger to the wheat , how doth the parable strike against his so doing ? if m. s. will not beleeve me , let him beleeve himselfe , pag. . for my part , saith he , when the civill magistrate shall be farre enough out of this danger of fighting against god , i have nothing to say against his fighting with superstition , heresie , schisme , &c. thirdly , what if i shape yet another answer to the argument out of mr. williams owne words ? chap. . i acknowledge , saith he , this command [ let them alone ] was expresly spoken to the messengers or ministers of the gospel , who have not civill power or authority in their hand , and therefore not to the civill magistrate , king or governour . now therefore what a blockish argument is it , to reason from this parable against the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion ? if there must be a forbearance of any severity , we must forbeare church censures and excommunication a way of rooting out the tares , which mr. williams himselfe justifieth as much as we doe . fourthly , and if the utter extirpation and plucking up of hereticks by capitall punishments , should be understood to be forbidden in the parable , ( as it is not ) yet the stopping of their mouths , the dissipating and suppressing of them , some other coercive way , is not forbidden , as chrysostome noteth upon the place , whom euthymius and theophylactus doe follow in this , allowing of coercive , though not capitall punishments . fifthly , calvin , beza , and our best interpreters , take the scope and intent of that parable , not to be against the immoderate severity of magistrates , but against the immoderate zeal of those who imagine to have the church rid of all scandalous and wicked persons , as wheat without tares , corn without chaffe , a flock of sheep without goats , which hath been the fancy of novatians , donatists and anabaptists . the parable therefore intimates unto us ( as bucerus upon the place expoundeth it ) that when the magistrate hath done all his duty in exercising his coercive power , yet to the worlds end there will be in the church a mixture of good and bad . so that it is the universall and perfect purging of the church , which is put off to the last judgement , not the punishment of particular persons . neither doe the servants in the parable aske whether they should pluck up this or that visible tare , but whether they should goe and make the whole field rid of them ; which field is the generall visible church sowed with the seed of the gospel ; and so much for that argument . another negative argument is this . such a coercive power in matters of religion , maketh men hypocrites and seven times more the children of hell . christs ordinances put upon a whole city , or a nation , may more civilize and moralize , but never christianize them ; saith m williams , chap. . i answer , this argument doth utterly condemn josiahs reformation as sinfull , for he caused all judah to stand to the covenant , as we heard before from chron. . . yet iudah became thereby more hypocriticall . treacherous iudah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart , but fainedly , saith the lord , speaking of those very days of iosiah , ier. . . . . this argument maketh also against the punishment of adulteries , murthers , thefts , robberies , &c. for unlesse filthy lust , hatred , and covetousnesse in the heart be mortified , and men convert freely and sincerely , the reducing of them to a morall conversation maketh them hypocrites , and neerer hell then before . . there are two sorts of christs ordinances : some for the communion of saints : others , for the conversion of sinners : it is far from our thoughts to admit , much lesse to compell , a whole city , or nation promiscuously , to the use of the former . but yet converting or reducing ordinances may and ought to put upon all whom they concern . the means must be used and mens hearts left to god . object . . this doctrine of the magistrates coercive power , maketh many to stumble at the presbyterian reformation , as a bloudy reformation , as a building of zion with bloud , and ierusalem with iniquity , mic. . . answ . . we have not so learned christ , we abominate the popish and prelaticall tyranny . we know that the servant of the lord must not strive ; but be gentle unto all men , apt to teach , patient : in meeknesse instructing those that oppose themselves , if god pera●venture will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth , tim. . , . yet he who said so , could also say , i would they were even ●ut off which trouble you , g●l . . . it is my souls desire that the secular coercive power may be put ●orth upon those only who can by no other means be reclaimed , & who can be no longer spared without a visible rupture in the church , and the manifest danger of seducing and misleading many souls . a presbytery is not so ill a neighbour , that no man who hath the least differing opinion may live beside it . but . this objection doth as much strike against the new england government , as against the government of the neighbouring reformed churches . for in new england there hath been severity enough ( to say no worse ) used against hereticks and schismaticks . and here i must appeal the consciences of those who now plead so much for liberty of conscience and toleration in this kingdome , were they able to root out the presbyterians and their way , & could find civil authority inclinable to put forth the coercive power against it , whether in that case would they not say , that the magistrate may represse it by strong hand , if it cannot be otherwise repressed . it is not without cause that i put this quere to them ; for m. s. pag. . ( a passage before cited ) doth allow of the magistrates fighting against a doctrine or way which is indeed superstition , heresy , or schisme , and only pretendeth to be from god , when it is indeed from men . also that pamphlet called as you were , p. . tels us that it was neither gamal●els meaning nor mr. goodwins meaning , that every way pretending to be from god must be let alone , but that only we are to refrain & let alone , till we are certain that we are out of danger of fighting against god , while we endeavour to overthrow it . now i assume , there are some who plead for liberty of conscience , who professe that they are certain and fully assured , upon demonstrative proofs , that the presbyteriall way is not from god , nor according to the mind of jesus christ ( which is hintedtous both in the pamphlet last cited p. , . & in ●●eomaxia pag. . ) therefore according to their principles they must allow of the putting forth of the civil coercive power against the presbyteriall way . and if so , what a grand imposture is this ? what a deceiving of the world ? what a mocking of the parliament and of the kingdome ? to plead generally for liberty of conscience , when they intend only liberty to themselves , not to others that are opposite to them . which appeareth yet further by the compassionate samaritane , pag. . he saith that no man is to be punished or discountenanced by authority for his opinion , unlesse it be dangerous to the state , pag. , . he discourseth against the opinion of presbyterians as most dangerous to the state . therefore he would have the presbyterians discountenanced and punished by authority , and intendeth liberty only to the separatists , anabaptists , and the like . i have done with three objections , but i have three words more to speak with the compassionate samaritane , in answer to his three arguments for liberty of conscience , in which though all the strength of his discourse doth lie , i hope to make him ashamed of them , if he can at all blush . his first argument is this . whatsoever a mans reason doth conclude to be true or false , to be agreeable or disagreeable to gods word , that same to that man is his opinion or judgement , and so man is by his own reason necessitated to be of that mind he is : now where there is a necessity , there ought to be no punishment , for punishment is the recompence of voluntary actions , therefore no man ought to be punished for his judgement . answ . . the question is not whether a man ought to be punished for his judgement , but whether a man ought to be punished for such professions or practises in religion , as are found to be pernicious , hurtfull , and destructive , to the glory of god , the truth of the gospell , the ordinances of christ , the reformation of religion , the peace of the church . i know he will be ready still to set on foot his argument , for that a mans judgement and reason doth so necessitate and conclude him that he cannot chuse but professe and practice as he doth . therefore i adde . this argument of his striketh against the justice of the parliament done or to be done upon malignants , for as much as their judgement bindeth them , and their reason doth necessitate them to judge and speak and act as they doe . . it striketh at the very justice of god upon reprobate and unbeleeving men , for as much as they cannot receive the things of god , cor. . . cannot hear the words of christ , joh. . . cannot receive the spirit of truth , ioh. . . but . the formall solution is this ; there is a grosse fallacy in the argument , for we must distinguish necessity , there is a naturall necessity , which takes away the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and a morallnecessity , which takes away the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of a mans being of another judgement or way . again , there is an absolute necessity , and a hypotheticall necessity . now the necessity of a hereticks judging thus , because his reason concludeth him thus , is not a morall necessity or obligation upon him , as if it were not lawfull to him to judge or doe otherwise , ( nay he ought and is bound by the word of god to judge otherwise , and doe otherwise ) but it is a naturall necessity , ( i meane of sinfull nature ) and that not simple and absolute , neither , but hypotheticall only , and upon this supposition that he hath not yet opened his eyes to receive more light , nor set his heart singly and in the feare of god to seeke more light . so that the plaine english of this samaritan argument is this : though gods word bindeth a man to such a duty , yet if his owne erroneous , perverse and corrupt judgement conclude him so farre that his opinion cannot agree with the word of god , and himselfe cannot be brought to the practice of that necessary duty ; such a man ought not to be punished . or as if one should argue thus : he that hath borrowed from me a thousand pound , hath by his owne fault disabled himselfe to pay it : therefore i may not call him to an account for it . but let us see whether this samaritan be happier in his second argument . which is this : it 's knowne that the fathers , generall councels , nationall assemblies , synods and parliaments in their times have beene most grossely mistaken : and though the present times be wiser then the former , &c. yet since there remaines a possibility of error , notwithstanding never so great presumptions to the contrary , one sort of men are not to compell another , since this hazard is run thereby , that he who is in an error may be the constrainer of him who is in the truth . answ . . farewell parliaments , if this argument hold good . the parliament may fine no man , imprison no man , banish no man : they may compell no man to assessements , taxes , excise , billeting of souldiers &c. and why forsooth ? because they may not presume of an infallible and unerring spirit , but may erre , and have erred as well as other men . he argueth from the hazard of compulsion , it may fall out that he who is in the truth may be constrained and persecuted . true : it may fall out so ; and the lord save us that we never be accessary to the persecuting of any who is in the truth , for so it may be againe through mens corruption and abuse of the magistrates power , ( so the best things may be abused . ) but the liberty of conscience which he pleadeth for , runs a farre greater hazard , even the hazard of not only shaking but overturning truth , and peace , and religion , and ordinances , and church , and soules , and all . to the ruine of all these , and to a thousand mischiefes , this kinde of liberty prepareth a broad way , and openeth a wide doore ; and it is better , as he said , to live where nothing is lawfull , then where every thing is lawfull . . it followes not that because parliaments may not presume of an unerring spirit , therefore they cannot be certaine that they are in the truth concerning this or that particular , so that they may confidently compell men to it , without feare of fighting against god . the acknowledgement of a possibility of error , and that we know but in part as long as we are in this world , may well consist with mens fulnesse of perswasion from the light of gods word , concerning this or that truth to be beleeved , or duty to be done . i make haste to his third argument . to compell me , saith he , against my conscience , is to compell me against what i beleeve to be true , and so against my faith ; now whatsoever is not of faith is sinne : to compell me therefore against my conscience , is to compell me to doe that which is sinfull . and , againe i am counselled by the apostle to be perswaded in my owne minde of the truth of that way wherein i serve the lord , &c. answ . . this also shaketh loose parliamentary authority ; though the gentleman who wrote these arguments pretendeth to stand for it , as much as any other . his argument will conclude ( if it concludeth at all ) that the parliament may not compell malignants , disaffected persons , rebels , to any thing which they are not perswaded in their own minds to be right . it is against my conscience , wil the antiparliamentary malignant say , to contribute to the war , to acknowledge this for a parliament , as long as the king doth not acknowledg it ; to reveal such a design , or to confesse this or that plot against the parliament , whē i am examined ; therefore i shal sin if i do so , for whatsoever is not of faith is sinne , and the parliament shall compell me to sinne , if they compell me to doe so . for though the thing may be in it selfe good , yet if it doe not appeare to be so to my conscience , the practice thereof in me is sinfull , which therefore i ought not to bee compelled unto , saith the samaritan . if hee say his argument is only concerning matters of religion , i answer , whatever his intention be in offering the argument , the very nature and force of the argument it selfe driveth universally against the compelling of a man to any thing whatsoever which is against his owne conscience , except be will say that it is a sinne to serve god against my consci●nce , but it is no sinne to serve the parliament against my conscience . saith not the apostle . whatsoever is not of faith is sinne : and , he that doubteth is damned ? but . when the apostle saith so , he doth not exclude all manner of doubting , as the casuists well observe , but only practicall doubts : for a man may have his conscience morally and practically certaine , so that he may doe such a thing lawfully , and with confidence that he is doing the will of god , and yet withall he may be perhaps fluctuating in some speculative doubts concerning that very thing . for instance : a christian may come to the lords table with so much faith ( i meane not now the faith of the person which justifieth before god , but the faith of that action ) as maketh his comming lawfull , though his thoughts be exercised with some doubts concerning the truth of his repentance and faith . a souldier may in faith goe out to warre , being assured that what he doth he may doe without sinne , but yet he hath happily his owne speculative doubts concerning the nature , causes , and ends of the warre . a man may with freedome and perswasion of minde ( so farre as concerneth his practice ) submit to presbyteriall government , who yet perhaps hath not throughly satisfied himselfe concerning the grounds and warrants which it hath from the word of god . the samaritan will reply ( it may be ) that he hath no faith at all concerning the practice it selfe , and that he may not be compelled to doe any thing against his conscience , for that were to compell him to sinne . to take off this , i adde . if the thing be indifferent , i confesse no man is to be compelled to it against his conscience , for this hath beene the tyranny of papists and prelats , to compell men against their consciences to certaine rites which themselves acknowledged to be meerly indifferent , setting aside obedience to authority in such things , which ( say they ) is not indifferent . but if the word of god either directly or by necessary consequence , make the thing necessary , and such as we cannot leave undone without sinne and breach of duty ; if there be such an obligation from the word , then may a man bee compelled to it , though against his conscience . but then you will say , i am brought into a necessity of sinning , for if i obey not , i refuse a duty ; if i obey , i doe it against my conscience . answ. this necessity is not absolute , but hypotheticall , is not perse , but per accidens , so long as a man retaineth the error of his conscience , which he ought to cast away . you will say againe , supposing that my conscience cannot be satisfied , nor made of another opinion then now i am of , whether in this case , and so long as it standeth thus with me , may authority compell me to obey against my conscience , and so to sinne ? or whether ought they not rather permit me not to obey , because my conscience forbiddeth me . answ. the thing being necessary , as hath been said , it is pars tutior , yea , tutissima , that a man be compelled to it , though it be against his erring and ill informed conscience . i know so long as he hath such an erring conscience he cannot but sin in obeying . but the sin of not obeying is greater and heavier : for this is a sin in the fact it self ; that a sin in the manner of doing only , being not done in faith : this is a sin of it selfe , that is a sin only by accident : this is a sin materially ; that is a sinne only interpretatively to him , because he thinks so : this is a sin for the substance ; that a sin for the circumstance : this cannot be made to be no sin , for the nature of the duty cannot be altered ; that may cease to be a sin , for the mans conscience may through gods mercy and blessing upon the means , be better informed . so that there can be no doubt but this is every way a greater sin then that , and consequently more to be avoided . and thus i have dispatched the samaritane who did undertake to pour oyl into the wounds of the separation . medice cura teipsum . the next thing comes in my way , is an argument brought for liberty of conscience , from gamaliels speech in favour of the apostles , act. . , . refrain from these men & let them alone : for if this counsell or this work be of men , it will come to nought . but if it be of god ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found even to fight against god . the strength of his argumentation did lie in this dilemma ; this doctrine or way is either of men , or of god . if it be of men , you shall not need to represse it , for it will come to nought of it self , which he proves by two historicall instances of judas and theudas . if it be of god , it is in vain to strive against it , for it must prevail , and the counsell of heaven must stand . therefore be what it will be , there is no danger to let it alone . but on the other side , if ye goe about to represse it ye runne the hazard both of fighting against god , and of provoking the displeasure as well of the romanes who have not permitted unto you the liberty of capitall punishments , as of the people of the jews who magnifie these men and their way . this is the whole substance , sense , and scope of that speech of gamaliel in the councell . hence did some argue for a toleration to servetus and other hereticks . and though this their way was then discovered to be their folly , yet their posterity approve their sayings . the same argument is used in that pamphlet called liberty of conscience , p. , . upon the same foundation doth m goodwin build in his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and the paraenetick for christian liberty , pag. . and . supposing the credit and authority of gamaliels speech , for matter of truth to be one and the same with other scriptures , and that there is nothing in all that speech but what is fully consonant with the word of god , unquestionably so acknowledged . so mr goodwin affirmeth , p. . and after him one p. p. which is by interpretation , poor pamphleter , fals in the same ditch ; he might well call it as you were , for he makes that party to be never a jot more in the right . first of all he will contend with us that protestant interpreters doe commend gamaliels speech , and justify m goodwins doctrine . sure i am , calvin takes gamaliel to be a godlesse polititian , and a neutralist , and his speech to have a great error in it . so saith pelargus upon the place . but to save me a labour in looking upon other interpreters , because the poor pamphleter appealeth first to piscator and beza , and afterwards to gualther , ( as mr goodwin did before him ) let him be judged by these and no other . p●scator saith plainly , that gamaliels speech was not right , while he saith , if this counsellor this work be of men , it will come to nought , his meaning being that therefore they should let it alone . beza thinks gamaliel spake not from love to the apostles , but from fear of the romanes . gualther thinks it a most pernicious tenent which some build upon this place , concerning the toleration of heresies and errors . yea , beza de haereticis à magistratu puniendis , citeth and approveth calvins judgement , condemning gamaliel for neutrality , and his speech of error . these learned divines have so well opened and cleared the point , that there is no place left for what the poore pampleter hath said , yet two things more i must take notice of in him . he saith it was not for any fear of the jews or romanes that gamaliel gave this advice . not for fear of the people of the jews , for that would be but at the apostles apprehension , not execution . what non-sense is here ? the people were angry at laying hands on the apostles , but there was no fear of their wrath if the apostles should be killed . not for fear of the romanes wrath , which , saith he , they often regarded not , as acts . . a place which confuteth himself , for when the jews would have killed paul , claudius lysias came with an army and rescued him : a danger which we must think the wisdome of gamaliel & the councell could better foresee , then that rude and furious multitude , which would have killed paul . next be will not yeeld so much as that gamaliel did doubt whether the apostles doctrine were from god or not , and that he made it an uncertain case . in this sir you have faced about , sure you are not as you were , for m goodwin himself {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . pag. . saith , that gamaliel in point of judgement or conscience , was still but where he was doubtfull and in suspence with himself about the businesse . well , but why hath he now denyed that gamaliel made it a doubtfull and uncertain case ? he might , saith he , and in all likelyhood did thus expresse himself for fear or policy : so did hushai strangely for an honest heart in that case of davids , in his counsell to absalon , sam. . yet hushai made a round lie , even against his knowledge . look about you my masters , know whom ye trust ; here 's a generation of men , pretending to a more perfect and saint-like reformation then others , but yet they think it no fault to lie and dissemble for good ends . nay that 's not all , pag. . answering to an objection made against those who doe commend and magnifie themselves , for greater gifts and graces then other men have ; he tels us it is no fault for a man not only to compare , but preferre himself to another , and that on purpose to heighten his own estimation . which how sweetly it agrees with pauls doctrine , phil. . . in lowlinesse of mind let each esteem other better then themselves ; let every sober and moderate spirit judge . how now , poor pamphleter ? is it not enough for you to defend a lying tongue , but you will needs defend pride too ? those are two ( i am sure ) of the seven things which are abomination to the lord , prov. . , . and here i leave the poor pamphleter with this black mark upon him ; i will not proceed to answer a fool in his foolishnesse , lest i be like unto him ; thus far i have answered , lest he be wise in his own eyes . only i adde one thing more in answer to that argument for liberty of conscience , from acts . , . suppose gamaliels principles to be good , and this speech to be of truth and authority , ( which i have proved it is not ) yet it is not applicable to the toleration of hereticks and sectaries now , that case of the apostles being extraordinary , and great miracles wrought by them , to the conviction of their most malignant opposites , act. . . some it may be will object further from isa. . . a place objected in the paraenetick , pag. . they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountaine . and luke . . and when his disciples james and john saw this , they said , lord wilt thou that we command fire to come downe from heaven , and consume them , even as elias did ? but he turned and rebuked them , and said , ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of , for the sonne of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . a place objected by nicolaides refut . tract. de eccl , cap. . answ. that prophecy concerning the christian church , isa. . . is not to be understood generally , as the word soundeth , for then adulterers , murtherers , &c. are not to be hurt and destroyed by the christian magistrate . the meaning therefore is , that those who have formerly been as lions & wolves to the poor lambs of christ , shall either be renewed and changed in their nature , or ( which is more probable ) shal be so restrained and overawed by the power and providence of god , that it shal not be in their power to hurt or destroy any of the saints for the truth or the gospels sake . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , neither shall they bee able to destroy any : so the septuagints . god shall so preserve and protect his church , that she shall be like a lamb among wolves , or like a kid among leopards , or like a childe putting his hand on the cockatrice den , and yet shall not be hurt nor destroyed thereby . and as this prophecie guardeth and protecteth none but those who are in gods holy mountaine , professors and lovers of the gospel , and the ordinances of jesus christ : so our lord christs rebuke , luke . , . striketh not against any just and necessary severity , but against a private vindictive spirit , and carnall blinde zeale : it being the purpose of christ , then , most of all other times , not to exercise violence , ( as tyrants doe in conquering new dominions ) but to conquer and subdue soules by his doctrine and miracles , with a spirit of meeknesse , especially having to doe with the samaritans , or any other who had never yet knowne nor received the gospel . even those who say most for a coercive power to be put forth against heretickes and schismaticks , doe not allow of the compelling of infidels , pagans , or jewes , by externall punishments to receive the gospel . but now after all this debate upon the question in hand , and after all these arguments for the affirmative and for the negative , some will happily desire and expect some further modification and explanation of the matter in certain positive conclusions or distinguishing assertions . for whose satisfaction i say , first , there are five sorts of toleration proceeding from five different principles . . of indifferency . . of policy . . of pretended conscience and equity . . of necessity . . of charity . the first is when the magistrate is a nullifidian , neutralist , and adiaphorist , esteeming as gallio did , questions of the law and of the ordinances of christ , to be of words & names , or things which he careth not for , acts . , . the second is when the magistrate tolerateth hereticks and sectaries for his own profit , or some such interest of policy , such as maketh the pope to tolerate the jews in italy , yea in rome it self , where they have their synagogues , circumcision and liturgies , because his profit by them is greater then by the very courtizans ; yea , besides their certain tribute , he doth sometimes impose on them a subsidy of ten thousand crownes extraordinary for some service of the state , as europae speculum , pag. , . hath represented to us . and whether the states of the united provinces do not grant tolerations upon the like interests of their own profit , i leave it to the judgement of their own consciences . the third is the toleration pleaded for here , by mr williams , the compassionate samaritane , &c. as if justice , equity , duty , and conscience should make the magistrate forbear all coercive power in matters of religion . all these three i utterly condemn , and the former arguments doe strongly militate against them . the fourth kinde of toleration , arising from necessity which hath no law , may well be mourned for as an affliction , it cannot be condemned as the magistrates fault . even a david may have cause to complain that the sons of zerviah are too strong for him . in such cases as these , our divines have given a relief to the conscience of the christian magistrate , purging him of the guilt of this kind of toleration ; provided always , that he hath endeavoured so farre as he can to extirpate heresies , and to establish the true religion only . which hath nothing to doe with that principle now defended , that the magistrate though he may never so easily , yet he ought not nor cannot without sin exercise a coercive power in matters of religion . the fifth and last is that kind of toleration whereby the magistrate when it is in the power of his hand to punish and extirpate , yet having to doe with such of whom there is good hope either of reducing them by convincing their judgements , or of uniting them to the church by a safe accommodation of differences , he granteth them a supersedeas ; or though there be no such grounds of hope concerning them , yet while he might crush them with the foot of power , in christian pity and moderation , he forbeareth so far as may not be destructive to the peace and right government of the church , using his coercive power with such mixture of mercy as createth no mischief to the rest of the church . i speak not only of bearing with those who are weak in the faith , rom. . . but of sparing even those who have perverred the faith , so far as the word of god and rules of christian moderation would have severity tempered with mercy : that is ( as hath been said ) so far as is not destructive to the churches peace , nor shaketh the ●oundations of the established form of church government , and no further : these last two kinds of toleration are allowed ; the first three are wholy condemned . my second distinction is concerning the punishments inflicted by the magistrate upon hereticks . they are either exterminative , or medicinall . such as blaspheme god or jesus christ , or who fall away themselves and seduce others to idolatry , ought to be utterly cut off according to the law of god . but as for other hereticks , they are to be chastened with medicinall punishments as mulcts , imprisonments , banishment , by which through gods blessing they may be humbled , ashamed , and reduced . not that i think the proper end of civill and coercive punishments to be the conversion and salvation of the delinquent , ( which is the end of church censures & of excommunication it self ) but that the right method of proceeding doth require that the magistrate inflict the smaller punishments first , that there may be place for the offenders bringing forth of fruits worthy of repentance , and he may be at least reduced to externall order and obedience , being perswade● by the terror of civill power , which may and doth ( when blessed of god ) prove a preparation to free obedience , as the needle is to the thread , or the law to the gospell , servile fear to filiall fear : and that the magistrate step not up to the highest justice till other punishments have proved ineffectuall : which made constantine punish the hereticks of his time not with death , but with banishment , as is manifest by the proem of the councell of nice . in such cases it may be said to the heretick of the magistrate , he is the minister of god to thee for good , more good i am sure , then if the golden reins of civill justice should be loosed , and he suffered to doe what he list . therefore augustine likeneth this coercive punishing of hereticks to sarah her dealing roughly with hagar , for her good and humiliation . i conclude , connivence and indulgence to hereticks is a cruell mercy : correction is a mercifull severity , and a wholesome medicine , as well to themselves as to the church . thirdly , we must distinguish betwixt the coercive power of the magistrare in matters of religion , and the abuse of that power ; when we justifie the power , we justifie not the abuse of it ; and when we condemn the abuse , we must not therefore condemn the power . acontius stratag. stat. li . . pag. . buildeth much upon this notion , let a man imagine that his lot is fallen in those times when the truth is persecuted by authority , when the magistrate justifieth the wicked and condemneth the godly , ( which hath been the more ordinary condition of the church ) and then let him accordingly shape the resolution of the question concerning the magistrates punishing of hereticks . will not a man think ( saith he ) it had been better that hereticks had not been punished , then that upon pretence of coercive power against hereticks , the edge of the civill sword be turned towards the preachers and professors of the truth ? but notwithstanding of all this , truth must be truth , and justice must be justice , abuse it who will . parliaments and synods have been many times enemies to the truth , and have abused their power in matters of religion : must we therefore deny the power of parliaments and synods ? or must we cast off any ordinance of god because of the abuse of it ? if the thing were indifferent , the abuse might take away the use : not so , when the thing is necessary . i adde ( which is well observed by calvin ) when jeremiah was accused and arraigned as worthy to die , his defence is not this , you ought not to vindicate religion with the sword , nor put any man to death for the cause of conscience , but this is it , know ye for a certain , that if ye put me to death , ye shall surely bring innocent bloud upon your selves , and upon this city , and upon the inhabitants thereof : for of a truth the lord hath sent me unto you to speak all these words in your ears , jer. . . neither did ever the apostles ( though often persecuted ) plead the unlawfulnesse of persecuting men for heresie , but they pleaded the goodnesse of their cause , and that they were no hereticks . fourthly , i distinguish betwixt bare opinions or speculations , and scandalous or pernicious practices , as mr burton doth in his vindication of the independent churches , pag. . you must distinguish , saith he , betwixt mens consciences and their practises . the conscience simply considered in it self is for god , the lord of the conscience alone to judge , as before . but for a mans practises ( of which alone man can take cognizance ) if they be against any of gods commandements of the first or second table ; that appertains to the civill magistrate to punish , who is for this cause called custos utriusque tabulae , the keeper of both tables : for this he citeth rom. . , . and addeth . so as we see here what is the object of civill power , to wit , actions good or bad , not bare opinions , not thoughts , not conscience , but actions . and this is his answer to the interrogatory concerning the lawfull coercive power of civill magistrates in suppressing heresies . in which he handsomely yeeldeth the point , for who doth advise the parliament to punish men for their thoughts , or bare opinions , or for conscience simply considered in it self ? it is for preaching , printing , spreading of dangerous opinions , for schismaticall , pernicious and scandalous practises , for drawing factions among the people contrary to the covenant , for resisting the reformation of religion , for lying and railing against the covenant , the parliament , the assembly of divines , or against the reformed churches . fifthly , we must distinguish the persons who are in the error , whether heresiarchs and ring-leaders , or whether followers only , and such as do actiagere ; whether schismatizing , or schismatized ; whether more weake , or more wilfull ; whether seducers , or seduced ; whether pious , or prophane , or pharisaicall ; whether peaceable , moderate , calme , docile , or turbulent , factious , fierce , railing , obstinate , incorrigible . so that when the thing is brought from the thesis to the hypothesis , there is very much to be trusted to the prudence , circumspection , and observation of those who are in authority , to set apart those for punishment who resist reformation , as jannes and jambres did resist moses , tim. . . and are said to trouble the churches , act. . . gal. . . & . . and to trouble them more or lesse , as they are more or lesse troublers of israel . let not the magistrate feare to say to every achan , why hast thou troubled us ? the lord shall trouble thee this day , jos. . . other seduced ones the magistrate is to command sub poena , and cause them stand to the covenant of god , as iosiah did , if they cannot be perswaded to doe it willingly . if the magistrate miscarry in a misapplication of his coercive power , let him answer to god and his conscience for his error . it is not in my thoughts either to plead for or allow of the persecuting of pious and peaceable men . sixtly , as the reformation and preservation of religion differ much from the propagation of religion : so the coercive power put forth in the suppressing of heresie or schisme , is a thing of another nature then the compelling of infidels by the sword to receive the gospell . let the pope , and the spaniard , and mahomet propagate religion by the sword ; that is not it i plead for . none of the gentiles was of old compelled to be circumcised , but being circumcised he might be compelled to keepe the law of moses . also if strangers of the gentiles were sojourning or trading in the land of israel , they might be compelled to abstaine from the publicke and scandalous breaking of the morall law , nehem. . . . exod. . . which things did belong to the preservation , not to the propagation of religion . seventhly , to establish by a law the toleration , liberty and immunity of such a sect or way , so as all that will may joyne in it , is a thing of most dangerous consequence . but to permit such or so many persons of a sect to enjoy the liberty of their owne consciences and practices , with such limitations as shall be found necessary , is a tolerable toleration , i meane a thing though not to be wished , yet to be allowed . the romans in their heathenish way did put a difference betwixt these two : when they abolished the bacchanalian festivity and discharged it , they granted no toleration to such as pleased still to observe it : only they were content that some few upon leave first obtained from the senate , and upon certaine conditions , might be permitted to continue their owne practice , as to their part . eightly , there is also a great difference betwixt toleration and accommodation . by accommodation i understand an agreement of dissenters with the rest of the church in practicall conclusions , so that if any difference be , it is in their principles , not in their practices , and so not obvious , apparent and scandalous to people . i had rather goe two miles in an accommodation , ( yea as many as the word of god will suffer me ) then one mile in a toleration . for in that way there is no schisme , no rent in israel , but the lord one , and his name one . in this way there is temple against temple , and altar against altar , manasseh against ephraim , and ephraim against manasseh , and they both against judah : a misery from which the lord deliver us . i doe not deny but if a safe and happy accommodation be impossible , such a toleration as i have formerly spoken of , is not to be disallowed . but the accommodation is a more excellent way , and that which is to be rather embraced , yea endeavoured for and followed after , according to the apostles rule , phil. . , . ( which isidorus pelusiota did long since observe to be the best and happiest way of putting an end to divisions and dissentions in the church ) let us therefore as many as be perfect be thus minded : and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded , god shall reveale even this unto you . neverthelesse whereto we have already attained , let us walke by the same rule , let us minde the same thing . if it be said , quorsum haec ? what doe i conclude from all this ? it is to leave this confirmed and sealed truth in the bosome of the high court of parliament , and of all inferiour magistrates according to their place and interest , under them , that it is their duty , without respect of persons , to endeavour the extirpation of heresie and schisme , and whatsoever shall be found contrary to found doctrine , and the power of godl●nesse , lest they partake in other mens sinnes , and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues ; and that the lord may be one , and his name one in the three kingdomes : and to endeavour the discovery of all such as have beene or shall be evill instruments , by hindring the reformation of religion , or making any faction or parti●● amongst the people , contrary to the solemne league and covenant , that they may be brought to publick triall , and receive condigne punishment , &c. which as they had great reason to sweare and covenant , so now they have greater reason to performe accordingly ; and as it is in it selfe a duty , and we tyed to it by the oath of god , and his vawes that are upon us , a● straitly as ever the sacrifice to the hornes of the altar : so we are to take speciall notice of the unhappy consequents which follow upon our slacknesse , slownesse and 〈◊〉 , in fulfilling that sacred oath , viz. the hindring of uniformity , the continuing and increasing of n●pture both in church and state , the retarding of reformation , the spreading and multiplying of heresies and sects , while every one doth what is right in his owne eyes ; the great scandall given both to enemies and friends : to enemies , who are made to thinke worse of our covenant , because we doe not performe it : the review of the covenant , printed at oxford , upbraideth us with this : that heresie and schisme was never more suffered , and lesse suppressed in london , then since we sware to endeavour the extirpation of the same : to friends also , who are mightily stumbled by our promising so much , and performing so little in this kinde : which the wallachian classis in their late letter to the reverend assembly of divines at westminster ( printed before apollonius his booke ) doth sadly and seriously lay to our consciences . a paraenetick . before i end , i have a word of exhortation for the five apologists , and such others as shall ( i trust ) agree with the churches of both kingdomes , not only in one confession of faith ; but in one directorie of worship . me thinks i heare them calling to me to say on . et tu mi fili ? said caesar . and must you also brethren , give a wound to the body of christ ? doe not , o doe not involve your selves in the plea of toleration with the separatists and anabaptists . do not partake in their separation , lest you partake in their suppression . let us heare no more paraeneticks for toleration , or liberty of conscience : but as many as you will for a just and mercifull accommodation : a thing mentioned by that author , pa. . but not sought after . if you be the sonnes of peace , you shall be characterized by this shibboleth , you will call for accommodation , not for toleration ; for one way , not for two . let there be no strife betweene us and you , for we be brethren : and is not the canaanite and the perizzite yet in the land ? o let it not be told in gath , nor published in the streets of ashkelon . let it not be said , that there can be no unity in the church without prelacy . brethren i charge you by the roes and by the hindes of the field , that ye awake not nor stirre up jesus christ till he please ; for his rest is sweet and glorious with his welbeloved . it shall bee no griefe of heart to you afterward , that you have pleased others as well as your selves , and have stretched your principles for an accommodation in church government , as well as in worship , and that for the churches peace and edification ; and that the eares of our common enemies may tingle , when it shall be said , the churches of christ in england have rest , and are edified , and walking in the feare of the lord , and in the joy of the holy ghost are multiplyed . alas , how shall our divisions and contentions hinder the preaching and learning of christ , and the edifying one another in love ! is christ divided ? saith the apostle . there is but one christ , yea the head and the body makes one christ , so that you cannot divide the body without dividing christ . is there so much as a seame in all christs garment ? is it not woven throughout from the top to the bottome ? will you have one halfe of israel to follow tibni , and another halfe to follow omri ? o brethren , we shall be one in heaven , let us packe up differences in this place of our pilgrimage , the best way wee can . nay , we will not despaire of unity in this world . hath not god promised to give us one heart and one way ? and that ephraim shall not envy judah , and judah shall not vexe ephraim , but they shall flee upon the shoulders of the philistims toward the east , they shall spoile them of the east together ? hath not the mediator ( whom the father heareth alwayes ) prayed that all his may be one ? brethren , it is not impossible , pray for it , endeavour it , presse hard toward the marke of accommodation . how much better is it that you be one with the other reformed churches , though somewhat straitned and bound up , then to bee divided though at full liberty and elbow-roome ? better is a dry morsell and quietnesse therewith , then a house full of sacrifices with strife . doth not the solemne league and covenant binde you sincerely , really , and constantly to endeavour the nearest ( marke nearest ) uniformity and conjunction in religion : and that you shall not suffer your selves directly or indirectly to be withdrawne from this blessed union and conjunction . i know there is a spirit of jealousie walking up and downe . o beware of groundlesse feares and apprehensions . iudge not , lest you be judged . iudge not according to appearance , but judge righteous judgement . many false rumours and surmises there have beene concerning the presbyterian principles , practices , designes . expertus loquor . i am perswaded if there were but a right understanding one of anothers intentions , the accommodation i speak of would not bee difficult . brethren , if you will not hearken to wholsome counsell , you shall be the more inexcusable . i have in my eye that law of god , thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart : thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sinne upon him . faithfull are the wounds of a friend . therefore love the truth and peace . yea , seeke peace and pursue it . consider what i say . the lord guide your feet in the way of peace . and o that god would put it in your hearts to cry downe toleration , and to cry up accommodation ! amen , amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- see the review of the covenant . notes for div a e- in am ae disp. . quaest. . punct. . ● . * brochmand . de magist. polit. cap . quaest. . dub . fatemur idol●latras istos crassos , qui abos seducunt , ●●cidendos esse . et infra . haereticos qui è territorio principis exire jussi , de●rectant obsequium , ac pacē publicam turbant , vita plecti posse , damus faciles . et infra . haereticos tanquam falsarios , castigandos & puniondos esse censemus , sed non morte , verùm carcere , exilio , excommunicati●…e . vide cal●in . refut . error . mich. serveti , pag. . inter opusc. scimus tres esse errorum gradus : & quibusdam fatemur dandam esse veniam , aliis modicam castigationem sufficere , ut tantum manifesta impietas capital . suppl●cio plectatur . fideles saepius paulus hortatur ut se invicem tolerent , quamvis aliqua sit inter eos dissensio : nempe siqua levis superstitio & inscitia simplicium m●n●es occupat ; ut cam patientia corrigere potiùs studeant , quàm intemperanter ad vindictam efferveant . secundum errorum genus , etsi castigationem meretur , mediocris tamen adhibenda est severicas : tantum ne indulgentiâ alatur eorum improbitas & contumacia qui fidei unitatem scindere cuperent . sed ubi à s●is fundamentis convellitur religio , detestandae in deum blasphemi●e pro●e●untur , impiis & pestiferis dogmatibus in exitium rapiuntur animae ; denique ubi palam defectio ab un●…o deo , purâque doctrinâ tentatur , ad extremum illud remedium descendere necesse est , ne mo tale venenum longius serpat . this treatise is approved by bulling●r in an epistle to calvin . vide calv. epist. p. . where he addeth : dudum d. vr●anus regius unà cum omn●bus luneburgen . ecclesiae ministris , edito etiam l●bro germanico , ostendit jure divino & humano coerceri haereticos . concerning moderation he saith after : scio tibi nec crudele esse i●genium , nec te ullam atrocitatem approbare : quis nesciat etiam hîc modum adhibendum esse ? at quomodo serveto lernae haereseôn & pertinacissimo homini parci potuerit , non video . when monfortius had stated the question thus : sunt quidam qui volunt omnes haereticos , hoc est , ab ipsis dissent●entes , interfici , &c. beza ansvvereth him : ergo si potest , vel unum nominet qui aut omnes haereticos c●●suerit interficiendos , aut ita sibi placuerit ut alios omnes diversum sentientes pro haereticis habuerit . stratag. satan . lib. . pa. , . sed sunt qui tantum usque ad christum viguisse cam legē putent , &c. et poenam illam corporalem aeternae damnationis typum fuisse , &c. quae quidem conjectura adeo mihi non inepta visa est , ut quamobrem rejici possit non inve●i●em ; nisi ei ratio in lege posita refraga●etur . est 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 vt omnis israel audiens time●● , neque pos●●ac quicquam admittat ej●smodi . quae certe ratio perpetuo v●get . * pela●gus in deuter. qui blas●hem● sunt , qui ecclesiam & rem●ub . a●erte t●●●ant , qu sed●t●osi sunt meritas incurr●nt poer●s : caet●● corrige●di s●nt , modisque 〈…〉 ex●mplo theodosi● & justiniani imperat●rum , apud socratem lib. . c. . theodosius {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} urbe ej●cit . tom. . ep. . see bacous essayes pag. , . epist. . no●null ●fratribus videbatur , ●n quibus & ego eram , quamvis donatistarum rab●es usquequaque saeviret , non esse petendū ab imperatoribus , ut ipsam haeresim juberent on●ino non esse , paenam constituendo eis qui in illa esse voluissent : sed ho● potius constituere●● , ut eorum furiosas violentias non paterentur . notwithstanding he acknovvledgeth a great mercy of god in inclining the emperors heart another way . hinc ergo factum est ut imperator religiosus & pius perlatis in notitiam suam talibus causis , mallet piissimis legibus illius impietatis errorem omnino corrigere , ●t eos qui contra chr●stum christi sign● portaren● , ad unitatem catholicam terrendo & coerceudo redigere , quàm saeviendi tantum modo auferre licentiam , & errandi ac percundi relinquere . calv. refut . error . mich. serveti . porro ●rudelis est ista quam laudant elementia , oves exponere in praedam ut lupis parcatur . et infra . quid enim absurdius est , quam furta severè puniat judex , sacrilegiis licentiam dare ? quam suum cuique honorem salvū tucatur , lacerandā impiis exponere dei gloriā ? tossanus in locum . sunt qui hoc loco abutuntur ut probent non esse sumend ●m supplicium de haereticis . ●artwright . hist. christi ex . eva●g . lib. . p. . sed hoc haereticorum patroni ad clientum suorū impunitatem a●●●●ndam abut●nt●r . quibus vel ex hoc ipse loco resistitur . et primum quidem quoniam hoc loco de to â improbocum universitate extirpanda agitur . nihil igitur impedit quo minus quidam ex improborum turbâ del bati , supplicio . quod nisi ita● sit , quo fundamento verbi dei fares , homicidae , proditores , &c. nsimiles morte mulctentur ? nam si salva hujus parabolae doctrina , hi in crucem agi aut capite truncari possint , nedum haeretici multo magis mortis poenâ plectantus . si enim peritura bona & hanc vitam eripien●es , &c. si principis majestatem visla●s , &c. n●dum , &c. deinde modo ita evellantur ut criti●um non unà eradicetur , bonâ cum parab●le ver●â , extmi posse liquet . 〈…〉 upon this par b●… mov●th this do●●… : si pru●… be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & isque av messem●enenda est patie●●… , quomodo ej●cie●d● su●t quidam de medi● nostrum ? i 'le answereth inter triticum et zizania qu●d nos appell●mus l●●…ium , quamdiu be●la est & nondum culmus venit ad spicam grandis similtudo est , & i● d●scernendo aut nulla aut perdiffic●l●s d●stantia . praemonet ergo dominus , ne ubi quid ambiguum est , cito s●●●entiam proferamus , sed deo jud●ci terminum reservemus . th●s doth augustine argue against the don●til●s who pleaded so much for liberty of consci●ce to themselves , and yet gave no liberty of conscience to others where they were able to hinder it . centraliter . pet●l●● . . c. . noli●rgo d●ce●e , absit , absit à nestracōs●●e●tia , ut ad n●stram fidē aliquem comp●ll ●mus facitis enimubi potestis ; ubi autem n●n facitis , non potestis , sivel●gū sive invidae timore , sive resistentium multitudine . an es de consc. l●b. . cap . agere saepe li●●t , man●●te dubitatione speculativa . calv. refut . error . m. serveti . gamalielit authoritas perperam abillis adducitur , &c. gamaliel amb●g●ni quid rectu● sit , quasi caecus in tenebris , neque bu● neque illuc se conser●e audet : sed saspendi● sente●tiam . in erim ex veris p●incipiis malam conseque●tiam clicit , nihil ad ib●n lum esse 〈◊〉 , quia deus quod suum est tuebitu● : quod autem ab hominibus est , possum ibit , &c. patidius est quam ut refu●atione ind●g●at , quod quidam ex prophanorum ho●●num dictis colligun● , si de cultu dei & legis doctrin● hab●tur quaestio , non esse crim●n morte aut vinc●lis d●gnum . p●l●rgus in act. . sic in causae qualitate s●spensus haeret ; nec proba●e nec improbare potest apostolicam doctrinam . et infra . ex judicio hominis in foro prudentis , n●utiquam theologice concludendam , qu●d à paenis & correctionibus fit cessandum , quia deus ad scandala to 〈◊〉 & m●la prorsus eradicanda ipse sufficiat . magistratus enim officium ex rom. v. . & aliunde notum est . piscat. non fuit rectum ( gamaliclis consilium ) ratione illius connexi , si est ex hominibus confilium sive opus 〈◊〉 , disselv●tur : q●ate●us voluit collegas inde coll●ge●e , no● ig●tur esse ipsis elaborandum ut opus illud dissolvant . nam etsi novationes huma●o consilio & au laci● s●sceptae , tandem dissolvuntur : tamen officium magistratus est , operam dare ut illas comp●scant & proh●beant , & ejusmodi novatores pro merito puniant , sed praecunte legitima ●●gn●tione causae . beza , non certè quod evangelio faveret ( gamaliel ) nisi d●scipuli sui sauli fait dissimilis , ( infra . . ) sed quod homo esset moderatus & vereretur ne caedem apostelorum contra roma●orum authoritatem factam , gravius aliquid sequeretur . gualther . perniciosissimi dogmatis occasionem hinc venantur , quo nullius conatus quantum vis improbes , nullius etiam err●res quantumvis impios & blasphemos vi coercendes esse ●lamant . vnde aliud scqui non potest quam universae disciplinae tum politicae tum ecclesiasticae c●n●ulsio : frustra enim geret magistratus gladium . kekerman . curs . philos. disp. . probl. . doth agree to these words of the jesuit becan●s . tametsi princeps aut magistratus catholicus omnibus modis impodere debeat , l●bertaetem 〈◊〉 gionis , ●t dictum est : si ta non i● facere non p●ssit sine graviori incommodo boni publici , potest eam tolerare tanquam min●s malum , ad evitandum majus , quod ●alioqui sequetur . polan . com . in dan. . . mag●strat●m chr●stimum d●cet veram rel g●onem , &c. in sua repub. constit●ere , & quidem solam , &c. incidunt tamen nonnunquam tempora quibus optimi reges ac mag●stratus , pa●is publicae retinendae causi , vita●darumque intestinarum seditionum●n cessitate adducti , c●guntur exemplo peritorum na●● r●rum veluti tempestati cedere , & superstitiosos errantesque f●rre : ut potius aliqua & respu● . & religio habeatur quam nulla . both these writers doe purposely frame this answer to the question concerning toleration . calv. besut . error . 〈◊〉 . serveti . e●g● hîc tene 〈◊〉 est p●udentia & moderatio , 〈◊〉 vel pro causa inc●g●ita tamul●u ●e eff●rvea●t principes , vel immanis●vit●a ●d sanguin●m fande●d●m ruant . 〈…〉 . . s●rm . . p. ● . 〈…〉 , &c. sed timor dei , aequitas & prud●rtia judicis intelliget ex 〈…〉 quomodo punienda 〈…〉 sedacto●ibus & seductis 〈…〉 & per vicax rebel 〈…〉 & minime mal●t 〈…〉 . magis illa persequebaetur saram supe●bi●nde , quàm illam sera coerce do● illa enim a●●inae faciebat isjuriam , ista imp●n●bat superbiae disc●pl●nā . ep . beza de haeret. à magistr. . puniend. . tacco quod toties adversus dena●●istas & circumcell ones augustinus testatur experienti● ipsa ●doctus , pl●rosque eo esse inge to ut nulla re magis quàm severitate in ●fficio contincantur : adeò ut quod initio poenae formidine vita unt , id ipsum postea libenter fugiant , & asperitatem illam fibi saluberrimam fuisse testent●r . bullinger . ubi supra . dumenim fides falsa in an●mo s●pulta latet , no● infi●●t quenquam n●si infidelem , p●niri non potell infidelis : ubi a●t●m fid●s laten erump●t in blasphemias , ac deum palam lacerat & proximos quosque infi●it , coercendus est blasphemus & seductor , ne malum latius serpat . the papists fall very farre shore in distingu●shing the persons , and proportioning the punishments . for instance see tannerus the●l . s●hol tom. . disp. . quaest. . dub . . n. . hac poena ( mo●tis ) ubi recepta est , affici , tumon nes r●lapsos , etiamsi couverti denu● veli●t , tum omnes post admonitionē pert n●ce● , etiamsi nunquam relapsi sint . abt ●●roqui nec re●apsi sunt , nec in pertinac●a pe●sever●nt , nec ali●s perverterunt , licet in r●gore mortem nihilominus promereantur , ordinariè tamen mortis poena affici non s●len● , sed carceris p●rpetui . as for that punishment commonly called irregularity , he will have it to fall not only upon the hereticke himselfe but upon his sonnes and nephewes . ib. n. . t. livius d●cad . l●b. . p. . edit. basil . . datum deinde consulibus negotium est , ut omnia bacchanalia romae primum , deinde per to●am italium dera●re●e●t : extra qua n●si qua ibi vetusta ara , aut signum consecratu● esset ; in reliquum deinde s. c. c●u●um est , ne qua ba●chanalia romae , neve in ital a esse●t . si qui● tal● sacrum s●l●nne & necessarium duceret , nec sine religione & piacul● se id omittere p●sse apud prae●orem urbanum profiteretur : praetor s●natum consuleret si ei permissum esset , cum in senatu centum non minus esse it , ita id sacrum faceret , dum ne plus quinque sacrificio interessent . judicent conscientiae vestrae , quomodo omne haeresium genus inultum permitti , multifaria schismatum semina impunè spargi , & prohana errorum dogmata passim in vulgus proferri possint it illa civitate , quae tam expresso , sancto & severo juramento sese c●ram deo devinaexit , ad omnes errores , harese , schismata è domo dei ejicienda . gen. . , . cant. . . act. . . jer. . ● . ezech. . . isa. . . . joh. . . pro. . mat. . . joh. . . lev. . . pro. . . zech. . . pet. . . a letter to a dissenter, upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence halifax, george savile, marquis of, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter to a dissenter, upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence halifax, george savile, marquis of, - . [ ], p. printed for g.h., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. attributed to halifax, george savile. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- great britain. freedom of religion -- great britain -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter to a dissenter , upon occasion of his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence . london : printed for g. h. . a letter to a dissenter , &c. sir , since addresses are in fashion , give me leave to make one to you . this is neither the effect of fear , interest , or resentment ; therefore you may be sure it is sincere : and for that reason it may expect to be kindly received . whether it will have power enough to convince , dependeth upon the reasons , of which you are to judge ; and upon your preparation of mind , to be perswaded by truth , whenever it appeareth to you . it ought not to be the less welcom , for coming from a friendly hand , one whose kindness to you is not lessened by difference of opinion , and who will not let his thoughts for the publick be so tyed or confined to this or that sub-division of protestants , as to stifle the charity , which , besides all other arguments , is at this time become necessary to preserve us . i am neither surprized nor provoked , to see that in the condition you were put into by the laws , and the ill circumstances you lay under , by having the exclusion and rebellion laid to your charge , you were desirous to make your selves less uneasie and obnoxious to authority . men who are sore , run to the nearest remedy with too much hast , to consider all the consequences : grains of allowance are to be given , where nature giveth such strong influences . when to men under sufterings it ossereth ease , the present pain will hardly allow time to examine the remedies ; and the strongest reason can hardly gain a fair audience from our mind , whilst so possessed , till the smart is a little allayed . i do not know whether the warmth that naturally belongeth to new friendships , may not make it a harder task for me to perswade you . it is like telling lovers , in the beginning of their joys , that they will in a little time have an end . such an unwelcome style doth not easily find credit : but i will suppose you are not so far gone in your new passion , but that you will hear still ; and therefore i am under the less discouragement , when i offer to your consideration two things . the first is , the cause you have to suspect your new friends . the second , the duty incumbent upon you , in christianity and prudence , not to hazard the publick safety , neither by desire of ease , nor of revenge . to the first : consider that notwithstanding the smooth language which is now put on to engage you , these new friends did not make you their choice , but their refuge : they have ever made their first courtships to the church of england . and when they were rejected there , they made their application to you in the second place . the instances of this , might be given in all times . i do not repeat them , because whatsoever is unnecessary , must be tedious , the truth of this assertion being so plain , as not to admit a dispute . you cannot therefore reasonably flatter your selves , that there is any inclination to you . they never pretended to allow you any quarter , but to usher in liberty for themselves under that shelter . i refer you to mr. coleman's letters , and to the iournals of parliament , where you may be convinced , if you can be so mistaken , as to doubt ; nay , at this very hour , they can hardly forbear , in the height of their courtship , to let fall hard words of you . so little is nature to be restrained ; it will start out sometimes , disdaining to submit to the usurpation of art and interest . this alliance , between liberty and infallibility , is bringing together the two most contrary things that are in the world. the church of rome doth not only dislike the allowing liberty , but by its principles it cannot do it . wine is not more expresly forbidden to the mahometans , then giving hereticks liberty is to papists : they are no more able to make good their vows to you , then men married before , and their wife alive , can confirm their contract with another . the continuance of their kindness , would be a habit of sin , of which they are to repent , and their absolution is to be had upon no other terms , than their promise to destroy you . you are therefore to be hugged now , onely that you may be the better squeezed at another time . there must be something extraordinary , when the church of rome setteth up bills , and ossereth plaisters , for tender consciences : by all that hath hitherto appeared , her skill in chirurgery lyeth chiefly in a quick hand , to cut off limbs ; but she is the worst at healing , of any that ever pretended to it . to come so quick from another extream , is such an unnatural motion , that you ought to be upon your guard ; the other day you were sons of belial , now , you are angels of light . this is a violent change , and it will be fit for you to pause upon it , before you believe it : if your features are not altered , neither is their opinion of you , what ever may be pretended . do you believe less than you did , that there is idolatry in the church of rome ? sure you do not . see then , how they treat both in words and writing , those who entertain that opinion . conclude from hence , how inconsistent their favour is with this single article , except they give you a dispensation for this too , and by a non obstante , secure you that they will not think the worse of you . think a little how dangerous it is to build upon a foundation of parodoxes . popery now is the only friend to liberty , and the known enemy to persecution : the men of taunton and tiverton , are above all other eminent for loyalty . the quakers from being declared by the papists not to be christians , are now made favourites , and taken into their particular protection ; they are on a sudden grown the most accomplished men of the kingdom , in good breeding , and give thanks with the best grace , in double refined language . so that i should not wonder , though a man of that perswasion , in spite of his hat , should be master of the ceremonies . not to say harsher words , these are such very new things , that it is impossible not to suspend our belief , till by a little more experience we may be inform'd whether they are realities or apparitions : we have been under shameful mistakes , if these opinions are true ; but for the present , we are apt to be incredulous ; except we could be convinced , that the priests words in this case too , are able to make such a sudden , and effectual change ; and that their power is not limited to the sacrament , but that it extendeth to alter the nature of all other things , as often as they are so disposed . let me now speak of the instruments of your friendship , and then leave you to judge , whether they do not afford matter of suspition . no sharpness is to be mingled where healing onely is intended ; so nothing will be said to expose particular men , how strong so ever the temptation may be , or how clear the proofs to make it out . a word or two in general , for your better caution , shall suffice : suppose then , for argument's sake , that the mediators of this new alliance , should be such as have been formerly imployed in treaties of the same kinde , and there detected to have acted by order , and to have been impowered to give encouragements and rewards . would not this be an argument to suspect them ? if they should plainly be under engagements to one side , their arguments to the other , ought to be received accordingly ; their fair pretences are to be looked upon as part of their commission , which may not improbably give them a dispensation in the case of truth , when it may bring a prejudice upon the service of those by whom they are imployed . if there should be men who having formerly had means and authority to perswade by secular arguments , have in pursuance of that power , sprinkled money amongst the dissenting ministers ; and if those very men should now have the same authority , practice the same methods , and disburse , where they cannot otherwise perswade : it seemeth to me to be rather an evidence than a presumption of the deceit . if there should be ministers amongst you , who by having fallen under temptations of this kinde , are in some sort engaged to continue their frailty , by the awe they are in least it should be exposed : the perswasions of these unfortunate men must sure have the less force , and their arguments , though never so specious , are to be suspected , when they come from men who have mortgaged themselves to severe creditors that expect a rigorous observation of the contract , let it be never so unwarrantable . if they ▪ or any others , should at this time preach up anger and vengeance against the church of england ; may it not without injustice be suspected , that a thing so plainly out of season , springeth rather from corruption than mistake ; and that those who act this cholerick part , do not believe themselves , but onely pursue higher directions , and endeavour to make good that part of their contract which obligeth them , upon a forfeiture , to make use of their inflaming eloquence ? they might apprehend their wages would be retrenched if they should be moderate : and therefore whilst violence is their interest , those who have not the same arguments , have no reason to follow such a partial example . if there should be men who by the load of their crimes against the government , have been bowed down to comply with it against their conscience ; who by incurring the want of a pardon , have drawn upon themselves the necessity of an intire resignation : such men are to be lamented , but not to be believed . nay , they themselves , when they have discharged their unwelcome task , will be inwardly glad that their forced endeavours do not succeed , and are pleased when men resist their insinuations ; which are far from being voluntary or sincere , but are squeezed out of them by the weight of their being so obnoxious . if in the height of this great dearness by comparing things , it should happen , that at this instant , there is much a surer friendship with those who are so far from allowing liberty , that they allow no living to a protestant under them . let the scene lie in what part of the world it will , the argument will come home , and sure it will afford sufficient ground to suspect . apparent contradictions must strike us ; neither nature nor reason can digest them : self-flattery , and the desire to deceive our selves , to gratifie a present appetite , with all their power , which is great , cannot get the better of such broad conviction , as some things carry along with them . will you call these vain and empty suspitions ? have you been at all times so void of fears and jealousies as to justifie your being so unreasonably valiant in having none upon this occasion ? such an extraordinary courage at this unseasonable time , to say no more , is too dangerous a vertue to be commended . if then for these and a thousand other reasons , there is cause to suspect , sure your new friends are not to dictate to you , or advise you ; for instance , the addresses that fly abroad every week , and murther us with another to the same ; the first draughts are made by those who are not very proper to be secretaries to the protestant religion ; and it is your part onely to write them out fairer again . strange ! that you who have been formerly so much against set forms , should now be content the priests should indite for you . the nature of thanks is an unavoidable consequence of being pleased or obliged ; they grow in the heart , and from thence shew themselves either in looks , speech , writing , or action : no man was ever thankful because he was bid to be so , but because he had , or thought he had some reason for it . if then there is cause in this case to pay such extravagant acknowledgments , they will flow naturally , without taking such pains to procure them ; and it is unkindly done to tire all the poast-horses with carrying circular letters to sollicite that which would be done without any trouble or constraint : if it is really in it self such a favour , what needeth so much pressing men to be thankful , and with such eager circumstances , that where perswasions cannot delude , threatnings are imployed to fright them into a compliance ? thanks must be voluntary , not only unconstrained , but unsollicited , else they are either triffles or snares , they either signifie nothing , or a great deal more than is intended by those that give them . if an inference should be made , that whosoever thanketh the king for his declaration , is by that ingaged to justifie it in point of law ; it is a greater stride than , i presume , all those care to make who are perswaded to address : if it shall be supposed , that all the thankers will be repealers of the test , when ever a parliament shall meet . such an expectation is better prevented before , than disappointed afterwards ; and the surest way to avoid the lying under such a scandal , is not to do any thing that may give a colour to the mistake : these bespoken thanks are little less improper than love letters that were sollicited by the lady to whom they are to be directed : so , that besides the little ground there is to give them , the manner of getting them , doth extreamly lessen their value . it might be wished that you would have suppressed your impatience , and have been content for the sake of religion , to enjoy it within your selves , without the liberty of a publick exercise , till a parliament had allowed it ; but since that could not be , and that the artifices of some amongst you have made use of the well-meant zeal of the generality to draw them into this mistake ; i am so far from blaming you with that sharpness which , perhaps , the matter in strictness would bear , that i am ready to orr on the side of the more gentle construction . there is a great difference between enjoying quietly the advantages of an act irregularly done by others , and the going about to support it against the laws in being : the law is so sacred , that no trespass against it is to be defended ; yet frailties may in some measure be excused , when they cannot be justified . the desire of enjoying a liberty from which men have been so long restrained , may be a temptation that their reason is not at all times able to resist . if in such a case , some objections are leapt over , indifferent men will be more inclined to lament the occasion , than to fall too hard upon the fault , whilst it is covered with the apologie of a good intention ; but where to rescue your selves from the severity of one law , you give a blow to all the laws , by which your religion and liberty are to be protected ; and instead of silently receiving the benefit of this indulgence , you set up for advocates to support it , you become voluntary aggressors , and look like counsel retained by the prerogative against your old friend magna charta , who hath done nothing to deserve her salling thus under your displeasure . if the case then should be , that the price expected from you for this liberty , is giving up your right in the laws , sure you will think twice , before you go any further in such a losing bargain . after giving thanks for the breach of one law , you lose the right of complaining of the breach of all the rest ; you will not very well know how to defend your selves , when you are pressed ; and having given up the question , when it was for your advantage , you cannot recal it , when it shall be to your prejudice . if you will set up at one time a power to help you , which at another time by parity of reason shall be made use of to destroy you , you will neither be pitied , nor relieved against a mischief you draw upon your selves , by being so unreasonably thankful . it is like calling in auxiliaries to help , who are strong enough to subdue you : in such a case your complaints will come too late to be heard , and your sufferings will raise mirth instead of compassion . if you think , for your excuse , to expound your thanks so as to restrain them to this particular case , others , for their ends , will extend them further ; and in these differing interpretations , that which is back'd by authority will be the most likely to prevail ; especially when by the advantage you have given them , they have in truth the better of the argument , and that the inferences from your own concessions are very strong , and express against you . this is so far from being a groundless supposition , that there was a late instance of it , the last session of parliament , in the house of lords , where the first thanks , though things of course , were interpreted to be the approbation of the king 's whole speech , and a restraint from the further examination of any part of it , though never so much disliked ; and it was with difficulty obtained , not to be excluded from the liberty of objecting to this mighty prerogative of dispensing , meerly by this innocent and usual piece of good manners , by which no such thing could possibly be intended . this sheweth , that some bounds are to be put to your good breeding , and that the constitution of england is too valuable a thing to be ventured upon a complement . now that you have for some time enjoyed the benefit of the end , it is time for you to look into the danger of the means : the same reason that made you desirous to get liberty , must make you sollicitous to preserve it ; so that the next thought will naturally be , not to engage your self beyond retreat , and to agree so far with the principles of all religions , as not to rely upon a death-bed repentance . there are certain periods of time , which being once past , make all cautions ineffectual , and all remedies desperate . our understandings are apt to be hurried on by the first heats ; which , if not restrained in time , do not give us leave to look back , till it is too late . consider this in the case of your anger against the church of england , and take warning by their misstake in the same kind , when after the late king's restoration , they preserved so long the bitter taste of your rough usage to them in other times , that it made them forget their interest , and sacrifice it to their revenge . either you will blame this proceeding in them , and for that reason not follow it , or if you allow it , you have no reason to be offended with them ; so that you must either dismiss your anger , or lose your excuse ; except you should argue more partially than will be supposed of men of your morality and understanding . if you had now to do with those rigid prelates , who made it a matter of conscience to give you the least indulgence , but kept you at an uncharitable distance , and even to your more reasonable scruples continued stiff and inexorable , the argument might be fairer on your side ; but since the common danger hath so laid open that mistake , that all the former haughtiness towards you is for ever extinguished , and that it hath turned the spirit of persecution , into a spirit of peace , charity , and condescention ; shall this happy change only affect the church of england ? and are you so in love with separation , as not to be moved by this example ? it ought to be followed , were there no other reason than that it is a vertue ; but when besides that , it is become necessary to your preservation , it is impossible to fail the having its effect upon you . if it should be said , that the church of england is never humble , but when she is out of power , and therefore loseth the right of being believed when she pretendeth to it ; the answer is , first , it would be an uncharitable objection , and very much mistimed ; an unseasonable triumph , not only ungenerous , but unsafe : so that in these respects it cannot be urged , without scandal , even though it could be said with truth . secondly , this is not so in fact , and the argument must fall , being built upon a false foundation ; for whatever may be told you , at this very hour , and in the heat and glare of your present sun-shine , the church of england can in a moment bring clouds again ; and turn the royal thunder upon your heads , blow you off the stage with a breath , if she would give but a smile or a kind word ; the least glimpse of her complyance , would throw you back into the state of suffering , and draw upon you all the arrears of severity , which have accrued during the time of this kindness to you , and yet the church of england , with all her faults , will not allow her self to be rescued by such unjustisiable means , but chuseth to bear the weight of power , rather than lye under the burthen of being criminal . it cannot be said , that she is unprovoked ; books and letters come out every day , to call for answers , yet she will not be stirred . from the supposed authors , and the stile one would swear they were undertakers , and had made a contract to fall out with the church of england . there are lashes in every address , challenges to draw the pen in every pamphlet ; in short , the fairest occasions in the world given to quarrel ; but she wisely distinguisheth between the body of dissenters , whom she will suppose to act , as they do , with no ill intent ; and these small skirmishers pickt and sent out to picqueer , and to begin a fray amongst the protestants , for the entertainment , as well as the advantage , of the church of rome . this conduct is so good , that it will be scandalous not to applaud it . it is not equal dealing , to blame our adversaries for doing ill , and not commend them when they do well . to hate them because they persecuted , and not to be reconciled to them when they are ready to suffer , rather than receive all the advantages , that can be gained by a criminal complyance , is a principle no sort of christians can own , since it would give an objection to them never to be answered . think a little , who they were that promoted your former persecutions , and then consider how it will look to be angry with the instruments , and at the same time to make a league with the authours of your sufferings . have you enough considered what will be expected from you ? are you ready to stand in every borough by vertue of a conge d eslire , and instead of election , be satisfied if you are returned ? will you in parliament , justifie the dispensing power , with all its consequences , and repeal the test , by which you will make way for the repeal of all the laws , that were made to preserve your religion , and to enact others that shall destroy it ? are you disposed to change the liberty of debate , into the merit of obedience , and to be made instruments to repeal or enact laws , when the roman consistory , are lords of the articles . are you so linked with your new friends , as to reject any indulgence a parliament shall offer you , if it shall not be so comprehensive as to include the papists in it ? consider that the implyed conditions of your new treaty are no less , then that you are to do every thing you are desired , without examining , and that for this pretended liberty of conscience , your real freedom is to be sacrificed : your former faults hang like chains still about you , you are let loose only upon bayl ; the first act of non-compliance , sendeth you to jayl again . you may see that the papists themselves , do not rely upon the legality of this power , which you are to justifie , since the being so very earnest to get it established by a law , and the doing such very hard things in order , as they think to obtain it , is a clear evidence , that they do not think , that the single power of the crown is in this case a good foundation ; especially when this is done under a prince , so very tender of all the rights of soveraignty , that he would think it a diminution to his prerogative , where he conceiveth it strong enough to goe alone , to call in the legislative help to strengthen and support it . you have formerly blamed the church of england , and not without reason , for going so far as they did in their compliance ; and yet as soon as they stopped , you see they are not onely deserted , but prosecuted : conclude then from this example , that you must either break off your friendship , or resolve to have no bounds in it . if they do not succeed in their design , they will leave you first ; if they do , you must either leave them , when it will be too late for your safety , or else after the s●●●caziness of starting at a surplice , you must be forced to swallow transubstantiation . remember that the other day those of the church of england were trimmers for enduring you , and now by a sudden turn , you are become the favourites ; do not deceive your selves , it is not the nature of lasting plants thus to shoot up in a night ; you may look gay and green for a little time , but you want a root to give you a continuance . it is not so long since , as to be forgotten , that the maxime was , it is impossible for a dissenter , not to be a rebel . consider at this time in france , even the new converts are so far from being imployed , that they are disarmed ; their sudden change maketh them still to be distrusted , notwithstanding that they are reconciled : what are you to expect then from your dear friends , to whom , when ever they shall think fit to throw you off again , you have in other times given such arguments for their excuse ? besides all this , you act very unskilfully against your visible interest , if you throw away the advantages , of which you can hardly fail in the next probable revolution . things tend naturally to what you would have , if you would let them alone , and not by an unseasonable activity lose the influences of your good star , which promiseth you every thing that is prosperous . the church of england convinced of its errour in being severe to you ; the parliament , when ever it meeteth , sure to be gentle to you ; the next heir bred in the country which you have so often quoted for a pattern of indulgence ; a general agreement of all thinking men , that we must no more cut our selves off from the protestants abroad , but rather inlarge the foundations upon which we are to build our defences against the common enemy ; so that in truth , all things seem to conspire to give you ease and satisfaction , if by too much hast to anticipate your good fortune , you do not destroy it . the protestants have but one article of humane strength , to oppose the power which is now against them , and that is , not to lose the advantage of their numbers , by being so unwary as to let themselves be divided . we all agree in our duty to our prince , our objections to his belief , do not hinder us from seeing his vertues ; and our not complying with his religion , hath no effect upon our allegiance ; we are not to be laughed out of our passive obedience , and the doctrine of non-resistance , though even those who perhaps owe the best part of their security to that principle , are apt to make a jeast of it . so that if we give no advantage by the fatal mistake of misapplying our anger , by the natural course of things , this danger will pass away like a shower of hail ; fair weather will succeed , as lowering as the sky now looketh , and all by this plain and easie receipt . let us be still , quiet , and undivided , firm at the same time to our religion , our loyalty , and our laws , and so long as we continue this method , it is next to impossible , that the odds of two hundred to one should lose the bett ; except the church of rome , which hath been so long barren of miracles , should now in her declining age , be brought to bed of one that would out do the best she can brag of in her legend . to conclude , the short question will be ▪ whether you will joyn with those who must in the end run the same fate with you . if protestants of all sorts , in their behaviour to one another , have been to blame , they are upon the more equal terms , and for that very reason it is fitter for them now to be reconciled . our dis-union is not only a reproach , but a danger to us ; those who believe in modern miracles , have more right , or at least more excuse , to neglect all secular cautions ; but for us , it is as justifiable to have no religion , as wilfully to throw away the humane means of preserving it . i am , dear sir , your most affectionate humble servant , t. w. reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively, in a very pious and pathetical manner. ... seaman, lazarus, d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing s a thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively, in a very pious and pathetical manner. ... seaman, lazarus, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] title from opening words of text. signed at end: la. seaman. place of publication from wing. imprint date from thomason's ms. note. annotation on thomason copy: "october . ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng westminster assembly ( - ) -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . london (england) -- history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers t seaman, lazarus c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reverend and beloved , it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london , once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively , in a very pious and pathetical manner . not only to bewail the prophanation of the lords day , the christian sabbath , and to signifie what he hath done by way of precept ; but also to promise what ever the power of his place may do for the strengthening of their hands ; and likewise to desire all and every particular minister in the city , as they tender the honour of christ , and the good of peoples souls , and welfare of the city , yea and earnestly in the name of god to intreat ( as in the said letters appeareth more fully , ) that they the ministers of christ jesus , press the duty of sanctifying that holy day , shew the danger of prophaning of it , and perswade not only to publike worship , but also to retire in private families to such holy duties as the lord requireth . we who are some of those to whom the foresaid letters were directed , have therefore accordingly indeavoured something heretofore in order to the desired end , but of late more seriously in our provincial assembly ( where through gods mercy we have opportunity to confer about matters of religion ) we have weighed those foresaid letters , and laboured mutually to have our hearts affected ( as in the sight of god ) with the contents thereof . and as we bless god unfainedly for stirring up the magistrate to minde the sabbath , and quicken us in our duty about it , ( the rather because in these times many are of gallio's temper careless of such matters . ) so we the ministers there assembled , with the assistance of the elders , have consulted among our selves , wherein , and how we might be most serviceable to our lord jesus christ the great shepherd of the sheep , in decrying sabbath-breaking , and in furthering the true sanctification of that holy rest , both in publike and private , throughout all the congregations and families within the said city , the liberties thereof , and the bounds of the province . and because the delegates there assembling are but few of many ministers within the city , we judged it necessary by writing to stir up our selves and the rest of our brethren and fellow-labourers in the work of the lord , that as one man with one shoulder we may apply our selves to procure in the first place the sanctifying of the sabbath , as the fountaine and foundation of a more perfect reformation in all other things appertaining to religion . to that end we make it our request unto all our dear brethren & to your self in particular , that upon and after as you see occasion , you choose some pertinent scripture to open and apply for instruction of your hearers about the sabbath , that all duties belonging to it may be inforced , and all errors in judgment , and sinful practises whereby it is polluted , may be discovered , confuted and reproved . and because there are divers acts and ordinances of parliament in force for the better sanctification of that day , we desire also that every officer may be stirred up to act conscientiously and vigorously according to the duty of his place , as is in them prescribed . and what , though we be poor and despised , yet we may not forget gods law . we fear a great part of our trouble arises from hence , that we are not sufficiently zealous for that rest . if we can vindicate the lords day , his holy ordinances will soon regain their credit . the calling of the ministers will not die , if conscience of the sabbath do revive . but if that fall , which of us , or what ordinance of god shall be able to stand ? it should be no small incouragement unto us that god hath prepared the magistrates heart to accompany us in our desires and indeavours this way . and that we have so solemn an ingagement as his promise in writing to every one of us particularly , that he will use all the power of his place to presse and carry on this work , untill it come unto perfection . we want not many other , yea stronger and more sacred grounds and reasons , to inforce these duties upon our consciences , yet his incouragements , zeale and forwardness should provoke us , as the like in jehosaphat and nehemia did among the priests and levites . god threatens sabbaths of desolation , the land ( saith he ) shall enjoy her rest , because it rested not in the dayes and yeers which he had set apart ; this in some proportion hath been verified in mos● of those churches which bear the name of reformed . to england we may say , considering the state of other places , be not high-minded , but fear . repent and do thy first works . yea let thy last be better then thy first , lest god remove thy candlestick . we speak not this as if we needed to put words into our brethrens mouths , but to stir up their pure minds and to testifie how sincerely we desire to sympathize with all those who minde the things of god , and of his son jesus christ our lord . which we desire so much the more to love , and look after , as they are hated or neglected by others we forbear to press arguments from the duty of your calling , because of your selfe , we hope you are sufficiently sensible thereof . the good lord prosper all your labour in the lord , to whose blessing we commend you . signed in the name and by the appointment of the provincial assembly by the present moderator la. seaman . a letter concerning toleration humbly submitted, etc. epistola de tolerantia. english locke, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter concerning toleration humbly submitted, etc. epistola de tolerantia. english locke, john, - . popple, william, d. . [ ], p. printed for awnsham churchill, london, . first published in latin, with title : epistola de tolerantia : goudae, . translated from the latin of john locke by popple. attributed to john locke. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng toleration. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - jennifer kietzman sampled and proofread - jennifer kietzman text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter concerning toleration : humbly submitted , &c. licensed , octob. . . london , printed for awnsham churchill , at the black swan at amen-corner . . a letter concerning toleration . there will be published in a few days , an agreement betwixt the present and the former government : or , a discourse of this monarchy , whether elective or hereditary . also of abdication , vacancy , interregnums , present possession of the crown , and the reputation of the church of england , &c. by a divine of the church of england , &c. foxes and firebrands : or , a specimen of the danger and harmony of popery and separation . a third-part . an hundred and fifty three chymical aphorisms : to which , whatever relates to the science of chymistry may fitly be referred . done by the labour and stidy of a country hermite , and printed in latin at amsterdam , anno . sold by awnsham churchill in ave-mary lane. to the reader . the ensuing letter concerning toleration , first printed in latin this very year , in holland , has already been translated both into dutch and french. so general and speedy an approbation may therefore bespeak its favourable reception in england . i think indeed there is no nation under heaven , in which so much has already been said upon that subject , as ours . but yet certainly there is no people that stand in more need of having something further both said and done amongst them , in this point , than we do . our government has not only been partial in matters of religion ; but those also who have suffered under that partiality , and have therefore endeavoured by their writings to vindicate their own rights and liberties , have for the most part done it upon narrow principles , suited only to the interests of their own sects . this narrowness of spirit on all sides has undoubtedly been the principal occasion of our miseries and confusions . but whatever have been the occasion , it is now high time to seek for a thorow cure. we have need of more generous remedies than what have yet been made use of in our distemper . it is neither declarations of indulgence , nor acts of comprehension , such as have yet been practised or projected amongst us , that can do the work. the first will but palliate , the second encrease our evil. absolute liberty , iust and true liberty , equal and impartial liberty , is the thing that we stand in need of . now tho this has indeed been much talked of , i doubt it has not been much understood ; i am sure not at all practised , either by our governours towards the people in general , or by any dissenting parties of the people towards one another . i cannot therefore but hope that this discourse , which treats of that subject , however briefly , yet more exactly than any we have yet seen , demonstrating both the equitableness and practicableness of the thing , will be esteemed highly seasonable , by all men that have souls large enough to prefer the true interest of the publick before that of a party . it is for the use of such as are already so spirited , or to inspire that spirit into those that are not , that i have translated it into our language . but the thing it self is so short , that it will not bear a longer preface . i leave it therefore to the consideration of my countrymen , and heartily wish they may make the use of it that it appears to be designed for . a letter concerning toleration . honoured sir , since you are pleased to inquire what are my thoughts about the mutual toleration of christians in their different professions of religion , i must needs answer you freely , that i esteem that toleration to be the chief characteristical mark of the true church . for whatsoever some people boast of the antiquity of places and names , or of the pomp of their outward worship ; others , of the reformation of their discipline ; all , of the orthodoxy of their faith ; ( for every one is orthodox to himself : ) these things , and all others of this nature , are much rather marks of men striving for power and empire over one another , than of the church of christ. let any one have never so true a claim to all these things , yet if he be destitute of charity , meekness , and good-will in general towards all mankind , even to those that are not christians , he is certainly yet short of being a true christian himself . the kings of the gentiles exercise lordship over them , said our saviour to his disciples , but ye shall not be so . the business of true religion is quite another thing . it is not instituted in order to the erecting of an external pomp , nor to the obtaining of ecclesiastical dominion , nor to the exercising of compulsive force ; but to the regulating of mens lives according to the rules of vertue and piety . whosoever will lift himself under the banner of christ , must in the first place , and above all things , make war upon his own lusts and vices . it is in vain for any man to usurp the name of christian , without holiness of life , purity of manners , and benignity and meekness of spirit . let every one that nameth the name of christ , depart from iniquity . thou , when thou art converted , strengthen thy brethren , said our lord to peter . it would indeed be very hard for one that appears careless about his own salvation , to persuade me that he were extreamly concern'd for mine . for it is impossible that those should sincerely and heartily apply themselves to make other people christians , who have not really embraced the christian religion in their own hearts . if the gospel and the apostles may be credited , no man can be a christian without charity , and without that faith which works , not by force , but by love. now i appeal to the consciences of those that persecute , torment , destroy , and kill other men upon pretence of religion , whether they do it out of friendship and kindness towards them , or no : and i shall then indeed , and not till then , believe they do so , when i shall see those fiery zealots correcting , in the same manner , their friends and familiar acquaintance , for the manifest sins they commit against the precepts of the gospel ; when i shall see them prosecute with fire and sword the members of their own communion that are tainted with enormous vices , and without amendment are in danger of eternal perdition ; and when i shall see them thus express their love and desire of the salvation of their souls , by the infliction of torments , and exercise of all manner of cruelties . for if it be out of a principle of charity , as they pretend , and love to mens souls , that they deprive them of their estates , maim them with corporal punishments , starve and torment them in noisom prisons , and in the end even take away their lives ; i say , if all this be done meerly to make men christians , and procure their salvation , why then do they suffer whoredom , fraud , malice , and such like enormities , which ( according to the apostle ) manifestly rellish of heathenish corruption , to predominate so much and abound amongst their flocks and people ? these , and such like things , are certainly more contrary to the glory of god , to the purity of the church , and to the salvation of souls , than any conscientious dissent from ecclesiastical decisions , or separation from publick worship , whilst accompanied with innocency of life . why then does this burning zeal for god , for the church , and for the salvation of souls ; burning , i say , literally , with fire and faggot ; pass by those moral vices and wickednesses , without any chastisement , which are acknowledged by all men to be diametrically opposite to the profession of christianity ; and bend all its nerves either to the introducing of ceremonies , or to the establishment of opinions , which for the most part are about nice and intricate matters , that exceed the capacity of ordinary understandings ? which of the parties contending about these things is in the right , which of them is guilty of schism or heresie , whether those that domineer or those that suffer , will then at last be manifest , when the cause of their separation comes to be judged of . he certainly that follows christ , embraces his doctrine , and bears his yoke , tho' he forsake both father and mother , separate from the publick assemblies and ceremonies of his country , or whomsoever , or whatsoever else he relinquishes , will not then be judged an heretick . now , tho' the divisions that are amongst sects should be allowed to be never so obstructive of the salvation of souls ; yet nevertheless adultery , fornication , vncleanness , lasciviousness , idolatry , and such like things , cannot be denied to be works of the flesh ; concerning which the apostle has expresly declared , that they who do them shall not inherit the kingdom of god. whosoever therefore is sincerely sollicitous about the kingdom of god , and thinks it his duty to endeavour the enlargement of it amongst men , ought to apply himself with no less care and industry to the rooting out of these immoralities , than to the extirpation of sects . but if any one do otherwise , and whilst he is cruel and implacable towards those that differ from him in opinion , he be indulgent to such iniquities and immoralities as are unbecoming the name of a christian , let such a one talk never so much of the church , he plainly demonstrates by his actions , that 't is another kingdom he aims at , and not the advancement of the kingdom of god. that any man should think fit to cause another man , whose salvation he heartily desires , to expire in torments , and that even in an unconverted estate , would , i confess , seem very strange to me , and , i think , to any other also . but no body , surely , will ever believe that such a carriage can proceed from charity , love , or good-will . if any one maintain that men ought to be compelled by fire and sword to profess certain doctrines , and conform to this or that exteriour worship , without any regard had unto their morals ; if any one endeavour to convert those that are erroneous unto the faith , by forcing them to profess things that they do not believe , and allowing them to practise things that the gospel does not permit ; it cannot be doubted indeed but such a one is desirous to have a numerous assembly joyned in the same profession with himself ; but that he principally intends by those means to compose a truly christian church , is altogether incredible . it is not therefore to be wondred at , if those who do not really contend for the advancement of the true religion , and of the church of christ , make use of arms that do not belong to the christian warfare . if , like the captain of our salvation , they sincerely desired the good of souls , they would tread in the steps , and follow the perfect example of that prince of peace , who sent out his soldiers to the subduing of nations , and gathering them into his church , not armed with the sword , or other instruments of force , but prepared with the gospel of peace , and with the exemplary holiness of their conversation . this was his method . tho' if infidels were to be converted by force , if those that are either blind or obstinate were to be drawn off from their errors by armed soldiers , we know very well that it was much more easie for him to do it with armies of heavenly legions , than for any son of the church , how potent soever , with all his dragoons . the toleration of those that differ from others in matters of religion , is so agreeable to the gospel of jesus christ , and to the genuine reason of mankind , that it seems monstrous for men to be so blind , as not to perceive the necessity and advantage of it , in so clear a light. i will not here tax the pride and ambition of some , the passion and uncharitable zeal of others . these are faults from which humane affairs can perhaps scarce ever be perfectly freed ; but yet such as no body will bear the plain imputation of , without covering them with some specious colour ; and so pretend to commendation , whilst they are carried away by their own irregular passions . but however , that some may not colour their spirit of persecution and unchristian cruelty with a pretence of care of the publick weal , and observation of the laws ; and that others , under pretence of religion , may not seek impunity for their libertinism and licentiousness ; in a word , that none may impose either upon himself or others , by the pretences of loyalty and obedience to the prince , or of tenderness and sincerity in the worship of god ; i esteem it above all things necessary to distinguish exactly the business of civil government from that of religion , and to settle the just bounds that lie between the one and the other . if this be not done , there can be no end put to the controversies that will be always arising , between those that have , or at least pretend to have , on the one side , a concernment for the interest of mens souls , and on the other side , a care of the commonwealth . the commonwealth seems to me to be a society of men constituted only for the procuring , preserving , and advancing of their own civil interests . civil interests i call life , liberty , health , and indolency of body ; and the possession of outward things , such as money , lands , houses , furniture , and the like . it is the duty of the civil magistrate , by the impartial execution of equal laws , to secure unto all the people in general , and to every one of his subjects in particular , the just possession of these things belonging to this life . if any one presume to violate the laws of publick justice and equity , established for the preservation of those things , his presumption is to be check'd by the fear of punishment , consisting of the deprivation or diminution of those civil interests , or goods , which otherwise he might and ought to enjoy . but seeing no man does willingly suffer himself to be punished by the deprivation of any part of his goods , and much less of his liberty or life , therefore is the magistrate armed with the force and strength of all his subjects , in order to the punishment of those that violate any other man's rights . now that the whole jurisdiction of the magistrate reaches only to these civil concernments ; and that all civil power , right and dominion , is bounded and confined to the only care of promoting these things ; and that it neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the salvation of souls , these following considerations seem unto me abundantly to demonstrate . first , because the care of souls is not committed to the civil magistrate , any more than to other men. it is not committed unto him , i say , by god ; because it appears not that god has ever given any such authority to one man over another , as to compell any one to his religion . nor can any such power be vested in the magistrate by the consent of the people ; because no man can so far abandon the care of his own salvation , as blindly to leave it to the choice of any other , whether prince or subject , to prescribe to him what faith or worship he shall embrace . for no man can , if he would , conform his faith to the dictates of another . all the life and power of true religion consists in the inward and full perswasion of the mind ; and faith is not faith without believing . whatever profession we make , to whatever outward worship we conform , if we are not fully satisfied in our own mind that the one is true , and the other well pleasing unto god , such profession and such practice , far from being any furtherance , are indeed great obstacles to our salvation . for in this manner , instead of expiating other sins by the exercise of religion , i say in offering thus unto god almighty such a worship as we esteem to be displeasing unto him , we add unto the number of our other sins , those also of hypocrisie , and contempt of his divine majesty . in the second place . the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate , because his power consists only in outward force ; but true and saving religion consists in the inward perswasion of the mind , without which nothing can be acceptable to god. and such is the nature of the understanding , that it cannot be compell'd to the belief of any thing by outward force . confiscation of estate , imprisonment , torments , nothing of that nature can have any such efficacy as to make men change the inward judgment that they have framed of things . it may indeed be alledged , that the magistrate may make use of arguments , and thereby draw the heterodox into the way of truth , and procure their salvation . i grant it ; but this is common to him with other men. in teaching , instructing , and redressing the erroneous by reason , he may certainly do what becomes any good man to do . magistracy does not oblige him to put of either humanity or christianity . but it is one thing to perswade , another to command ; one thing to press with arguments , another with penalties . this civil power alone has a right to do ; to the other good-will is authority enough . every man has commission to admonish , exhort , convince another of error , and by reasoning to draw him into truth : but to give laws , receive obedience , and compel with the sword , belongs to none but the magistrate . and upon this ground i affirm , that the magistrate's power extends not to the establishing of any articles of faith , or forms of worship , by the force of his laws . for laws are of no force at all without penalties , and penalties in this case are absolutely impertinent ; because they are not proper to convince the mind . neither the profession of any articles of faith , nor the conformity to any outward form of worship ( as has already been said ) can be available to the salvation of souls , unless the truth of the one , and the acceptableness of the other unto god , be thoroughly believed by those that so profess and practise . but penalties are no ways capable to produce such belief . it is only light and evidence that can work a change in mens opinions ; which light can in no manner proceed from corporal sufferings , or any other outward penalties . in the third place . the care of the salvation of mens souls cannot belong to the magistrate ; because , though the rigour of laws and the force of penalties were capable to convince and change mens minds , yet would not that help at all to the salvation of their souls . for there being but one truth , one way to heaven ; what hopes is there that more men would be led into it , if they had no rule but the religion of the court , and were put under a necessity to quit the light of their own reason , and oppose the dictates of their own consciences , and blindly to resign up themselves to the will of their governors , and to the religion , which either ignorance , ambition , or superstition had chanced to establish in the countries where they were born ? in the variety and contradiction of opinions in religion , wherein the princes of the world are as much divided as in their secular interests , the narrow way would be much straitned ; one country alone would be in the right , and all the rest of the world put under an obligation of following their princes in the ways that lead to destruction ; and that which heightens the absurdity , and very ill suits the notion of a deity , men would owe their eternal happiness or misery to the places of their nativity . these considerations , to omit many others that might have been urged to the same purpose , seem unto me sufficient to conclude that all the power of civil government relates only to mens civil interests , is confined to the care of the things of this world , and hath nothing to do with the world to come . let us now consider what a church is . a church then i take to be a voluntary society of men , joining themselves together of their own accord , in order to the publick worshipping of god , in such a manner as they judge acceptable to him , and effectual to the salvation of their souls . i say it is a free and voluntary society . no body is born a member of any church ; otherwise the religion of parents would descend unto children , by the same right of inheritance as their temporal estates , and every one would hold his faith by the same tenure he does his lands ; than which nothing can be imagined more absurd . thus therefore that matter stands . no man by nature is bound unto any particular church or sect , but every one joins himself voluntarily to that society in which he believes he has found that profession and worship which is truly acceptable to god. the hopes of salvation , as it was the only cause of his entrance into that communion , so it can be the only reason of his stay there . for if afterwards he discover any thing either erroneous in the doctrine , or incongruous in the worship of that society to which he has join'd himself , why should it not be as free for him to go out as it was to enter ? no member of a religious society can be tied with any other bonds but what proceed from the certain expectation of eternal life . a church then is a society of members voluntarily uniting to this end . it follows now that we consider what is the power of this church , and unto what laws it is subject . forasmuch as no society , how free soever , or upon whatsoever slight occasion instituted , ( whether of philophers for learning , of merchants for commerce , or of men of leisure for mutual conversation and discourse , ) no church or company , i say , can in the least subsist and hold together , but will presently dissolve and break to pieces , unless it be regulated by some laws , and the members all consent to observe some order . place , and time of meeting must be agreed on ; rules for admitting and excluding members must be establisht ; distinction of officers , and putting things into a regular course , and such like , cannot be omitted . but since the joyning together of several members into this church-society , as has already been demonstrated , is absolutely free and spontaneous , it necessarily follows , that the right of making its laws can belong to none but the society it self , or at least ( which is the same thing ) to those whom the society by common consent has authorised thereunto . some perhaps may object , that no such society can be said to be a true church , unless it have in it a bishop , or presbyter , with ruling authority derived from the very apostles , and continued down unto the present times by an uninterrupted succession . to these i answer . in the first place , let them shew me the edict by which christ has imposed that law upon his church . and let not any man think me impertinent if , in a thing of this consequence , i require that the terms of that edict be very express and positive . for the promise he has made us , that wheresoever two or three are gathered together in his name , he will be in the midst of them , seems to imply the contrary . whether such an assembly want any thing necessary to a true church , pray do you consider . certain i am , that nothing can be there wanting unto the salvation of souls ; which is sufficient to our purpose . next , pray observe how great have always been the divisions amongst even those who lay so much stress upon the divine institution , and continued succession of a certain order of rulers in the church . now their very dissention unavoidably puts us upon a necessity of deliberating , and consequently allows a liberty of choosing that , which upon consideration , we prefer . and in the last place , i consent that these men have a ruler of their church , established by such a long series of succession as they judge necessary ; provided i may have liberty at the same time to join my self to that society , in which i am perswaded those things are to be found which are necessary to the salvation of my soul. in this manner ecclesiastical liberty will be preserved on all sides , and no man will have a legislator imposed upon him , but whom himself has chosen . but since men are so sollicitous about the true church , i would only ask them , here by the way , if it be not more agreeable to the church of christ , to make the conditions of her communion consist in such things , and such things only , as the holy spirit has in the holy scriptures declared , in express words , to be necessary to salvation ; i ask , i say , whether this be not more agreeable to the church of christ , than for men to impose their own inventions and interpretations upon others , as if they were of divine authority , and to establish by ecclesiastical laws , as absolutely necessary to the profession of christianity , such things as the holy scriptures do either not mention , or at least not expresly command . whosoever requires those things in order to ecclesiastical communion , which christ does not require in order to life eternal , he may perhaps indeed constitute a society accommodated to his own opinion and his own advantage , but how that can be called the church of christ , which is established upon laws that are not his , and which excludes such persons from its communion as he will one day receive into the kingdom of heaven , i understand not . but this being not a proper place to enquire into the marks of the true church , i will only mind those that contend so earnestly for the decrees of their own society , and that cry out continually the church , the church , with as much noise , and perhaps upon the same principle , as the ephesian silversmiths did for their diana ; this , i say , i desire to mind them of , that the gospel frequently declares that the true disciples of christ must suffer persecution ; but that the church of christ should persecute others , and force others by fire and sword , to embrace her faith and doctrine , i could never yet find in any of the books of the new testament . the end of a religious society ( as has already been said ) is the publick worship of god , and by means thereof the acquisition of eternal life . all discipline ought therefore to tend to that end , and all ecclesiastical laws to be thereunto confined . nothing ought , nor can be transacted in this society , relating to the possession of civil and worldly goods . no force is here to be made use of , upon any occasion whatsoever : for force belongs wholly to the civil magistrate , and the possession of all outward goods is subject to his jurisdiction . but it may be asked , by what means then shall ecclesiastical laws be established , if they must be thus destitute of all compulsive power ? i answer , they must be established by means suitable to the nature of such things , whereof the external profession and observation , if not proceeding from a thorow conviction and approbation of the mind , is altogether useless and unprofitable . the arms by which the members of this society are to be kept within their duty , are exhortations , admonitions , and advices . if by these means the offenders will not be reclaimed , and the erroneous convinced , there remains nothing farther to be done , but that such stubborn and obstinate persons , who give no ground to hope for their reformation , should be cast out and separated from the society . this is the last and utmost force of ecclesiastical authority : no other punishment can thereby be inflicted , than that , the relation ceasing between the body and the member which is cut off , the person so condemned ceases to be a part of that church . these things being thus determined , let us inquire in the next place , how far the duty of toleration extends , and what is required from every one by it . and first , i hold , that no church is bound by the duty of toleration to retain any such person in her bosom , as , after admonition , continues obstinately to offend against the laws of the society . for these being the condition of communion , and the bond of the society , if the breach of them were permitted without any animadversion , the society would immediately be thereby dissolved . but nevertheless , in all such cases care is to be taken that the sentence of excommunication , and the execution thereof , carry with it no rough usage , of word or action , whereby the ejected person may any wise be damnified in body or estate . for all force ( as has often been said ) belongs only to the magistrate , nor ought any private persons , at any time , to use force ; unless it be in self-defence against unjust violence . excommunication neither does , nor can , deprive the excommunicated person of any of those civil goods that he formerly possessed . all those things belong to the civil government , and are under the magistrate's protection . the whole force of excommunication consists only in this , that , the resolution of the society in that respect being declared , the union that was between the body and some member comes thereby to be dissolved ; and that relation ceasing , the participation of some certain things , which the society communicated to its members , and unto which no man has any civil right , comes also to cease . for there is no civil injury done unto the excommunicated person , by the church-minister's refusing him that bread and wine , in the celebration of the lord's supper , which was not bought with his , but other mens money . secondly , no private person has any right , in any manner , to prejudice another person in his civil enjoyments , because he is of another church or religion . all the rights and franchises that belong to him as a man , or as a denison , are inviolably to be preserved to him . these are not the business of religion . no violence nor injury is to be offered him , whether he be christian or pagan . nay , we must not content our selves with the narrow measures of bare justice : charity , bounty , and liberality must be added to it . this the gospel enjoyns , this reason directs , and this that natural fellowship we are born into requires of us . if any man err from the right way , it is his own misfortune , no injury to thee : nor therefore art thou to punish him in the things of this life , because thou supposest he will be miserable in that which is to come . what i say concerning the mutual toleration of private persons differing from one another in religion , i understand also of particular churches ; which stand as it were in the same relation to each other as private persons among themselves , nor has any one of them any manner of jurisdiction over any other , no not even when the civil magistrate ( as it sometimes happens ) comes to be of this or the other communion . for the civil government can give no new right to the church , nor the church to the civil government . so that whether the magistrate joyn himself to any church , or separate from it , the church remains always as it was before , a free and voluntary society . it neither acquires the power of the sword by the magistrate's coming to it , nor does it lose the right of instruction and excommunication by his going from it . this is the fundamental and immutable right of a spontaneous society , that it has power to remove any of its members who transgress the rules of its institution : but it cannot , by the accession of any new members , acquire any right of jurisdiction over those that are not joined with it . and therefore peace , equity , and friendship , are always mutually to be observed by particular churches , in the same manner as by private persons , without any pretence of superiority or jurisdiction over one another . that the thing may be made yet clearer by an example ; let us suppose two churches , the one of arminians , the other of calvinists , residing in the city of constantinople . will any one say , that either of these churches has right to deprive the members of the other of their estates and liberty , ( as we see practised elsewhere ) because of their differing from it in some doctrines or ceremonies ; whilst the turks in the mean while silently stand by , and laugh to see with what inhumane cruelty christians thus rage against christians ? but if one of these churches hath this power of treating the other ill , i ask which of them it is to whom that power belongs , and by what right ? it will be answered , undoubtedly , that it is the orthodox church which has the right of authority over the erroneous or heretical . this is , in great and specious words , to say just nothing at all . for every church is orthodox to it self ; to others , erroneous or heretical . for whatsoever any church believes , it believes to be true ; and the contrary unto those things , it pronounces to be error . so that the controversie between these churches about the truth of their doctrines , and the purity of their worship , is on both sides equal ; nor is there any judge , either at constantinople , or elsewhere upon earth , by whose sentence it can be determined . the decision of that question belongs only to the supream judge of all men , to whom also alone belongs the punishment of the erroneous . in the mean while , let those men consider how hainously they sin , who , adding injustice , if not to their error yet certainly to their pride , do rashly and arrogantly take upon them to misuse the servants of another master , who are not at all accountable to them . nay , further : if it could be manifest which of these two dissenting churches were in the right , there would not accrue thereby unto the orthodox any right of destroying the other . for churches have neither any jurisdiction in worldly matters , nor are fire and sword any proper instruments wherewith to convince mens minds of error , and inform them of the truth . let us suppose , nevertheless , that the civil magistrate inclined to favour one of them , and to put his sword into their hands , that ( by his consent ) they might chastise the dissenters as they pleased . will any man say , that any right can be derived unto a christian church , over its brethren , from a turkish emperor ? an infidel , who has himself no authority to punish christians for the articles of their faith , cannot confer such an authority upon any society of christians , nor give unto them a right which he has not himself . this would be the case at constantinople . and the reason of the thing is the same in any christian kingdom . the civil power is the same in every place : nor can that power , in the hands of a christian prince , confer any greater authority upon the church , than in the hands of a heathen ; which is to say , just none at all . nevertheless , it is worthy to be observed , and lamented , that the most violent of these defenders of the truth , the opposers of errors , the exclaimers against schism , do hardly ever let loose this their zeal for god , with which they are so warmed and inflamed , unless where they have the civil magistrate on their side . but so soon as ever court-favour has given them the better end of the staff , and they begin to feel themselves the stronger , then presently peace and charity are to be laid aside : otherwise , they are religiously to be observed . where they have not the power to carry on persecution , and to become masters , there they desire to live upon fair terms , and preach up toleration . when they are not strengthned with the civil power , then they can bear most patiently , and unmovedly , the contagion of idolatry , superstition , and heresie , in their neighbourhood ; of which , in other occasions , the interest of religion makes them to be extreamly apprehensive . they do not forwardly attack those errors which are in fashion at court , or are countenanced by the government . here they can be content to spare their arguments : which yet ( with their leave ) is the only right method of propagating truth , which has no such way of prevailing , as when strong arguments and good reason , are joined with the softness of civility and good usage . no body therefore , in fine , neither single persons , nor churches , nay , nor even commonwealths , have any just title to invade the civil rights and worldly goods of each other , upon pretence of religion . those that are of another opinion , would do well to consider with themselves how pernicious a seed of discord and war , how powerful a provocation to endless hatreds , rapines , and slaughters , they thereby furnish unto mankind . no peace and security , no not so much as common friendship , can ever be established or preserved amongst men , so long as this opinion prevails , that dominion is founded in grace , and that religion is to be propagated by force of arms. in the third place : let us see what the duty of toleration requires from those who are distinguished from the rest of mankind , ( from the laity , as they please to call us ) by some ecclesiastical character , and office ; whether they be bishops , priests , presbyters , ministers , or however else dignified or distinguished . it is not my business to inquire here into the original of the power or dignity of the clergy . this only i say , that whence-soever their authority be sprung , since it is ecclesiastical , it ought to be confined within the bounds of the church , nor can it in any manner be extended to civil affairs ; because the church it self is a thing absolutely separate and distinct from the commonwealth . the boundaries on both sides are fixed and immovable . he jumbles heaven and earth together , the things most remote and opposite , who mixes these two societies ; which are in their original , end , business , and in every thing , perfectly distinct , and infinitely different from each other . no man therefore , with whatsoever ecclesiastical office he be dignified , can deprive another man that is not of his church and faith , either of liberty , or of any part of his worldly goods , upon the account of that difference between them in religion . for whatsoever is not lawful to the whole church , cannot , by any ecclesiastical right , become lawful to any of its members . but this is not all . it is not enough that ecclesiastical men abstain from violence and rapine , and all manner of persecution . he that pretends to be a successor of the apostles , and takes upon him the office of teaching , is obliged also to admonish his hearers of the duties of peace , and good-will towards all men ; as well towards the erroneous as the orthodox ; towards those that differ from them in faith and worship , as well as towards those that agree with them therein : and he ought industriously to exhort all men , whether private persons or magistrates , ( if any such there be in his church ) to charity , meekness , and toleration ; and diligently endeavour to allay and temper all that heat , and unreasonable averseness of mind , which either any mans fiery zeal for his own sect , or the craft of others , has kindled against dissenters . i will not undertake to represent how happy and how great would be the fruit , both in church and state , if the pulpits every where sounded with this doctrine of peace and toleration ; lest i should seem to reflect too severely upon those men whose dignity i desire not to detract from , nor would have it diminished either by others or themselves . but this i say , that thus it ought to be . and if any one that professes himself to be a minister of the word of god , a preacher of the gospel of peace , teach otherwise , he either understands not , or neglects the business of his calling , and shall one day give account thereof unto the prince of peace . if christians are to be admonished that they abstain from all manner of revenge , even after repeated provocations and multiplied injuries , how much more ought they who suffer nothing , who have had no harm done them , forbear violence , and abstain from all manner of ill usage towards those from whom they have received none . this caution and temper they ought certainly to use towards those who mind only their own business , and are sollicitous for nothing but that ( whatever men think of them ) they may worship god in that manner which they are persuaded is acceptable to him , and in which they have the strongest hopes of eternal salvation . in private domestick affairs , in the management of estates , in the conservation of bodily health , every man may consider what suits his own conveniency , and follow what course he likes best . no man complains of the ill management of his neighbour's affairs . no man is angry with another for an error committed in sowing his land , or in marrying his daughter . no body corrects a spendthrift for consuming his substance in taverns . let any man pull down , or build , or make whatsoever expences he pleases , no body murmurs , no body controuls him ; he has his liberty . but if any man do not frequent the church , if he do not there conform his behaviour exactly to the accustomed ceremonies , or if he brings not his children to be initiated in the sacred mysteries of this or the other congregation , this immediately causes an uproar . the neighbourhood is filled with noise and clamour . every one is ready to be the avenger of so great a crime . and the zealots hardly have the patience to refrain from violence and rapine , so long till the cause be heard , and the poor man be , according to form , condemned to the loss of liberty , goods , or life . oh that our ecclesiastical orators , of every sect , would apply themselves with all the strength of arguments that they are able , to the confounding of mens errors ! but let them spare their persons . let them not supply their want of reasons with the instruments of force , which belong to another jurisdiction , and do ill become a churchman's hands . let them not call in the magistrate's authority to the aid of their eloquence , or learning ; lest , perhaps , whilst they pretend only love for the truth , this their intemperate zeal , breathing nothing but fire and sword , betray their ambition , and shew that what they desire is temporal dominion . for it will be very difficult to persuade men of sense , that he , who with dry eyes , and satisfaction of mind , can deliver his brother unto the executioner , to be burnt alive , does sincerely and heartily concern himself to save that brother from the flames of hell in the world to come . in the last place . let us now consider what is the magistrate's duty in the business of toleration : which certainly is very considerable . we have already proved , that the care of souls does not belong to the magistrate : not a magisterial care , i mean , ( if i may so call it ) which consists in prescribing by laws , and compelling by punishments . but a charitable care , which consists in teaching , admonishing , and persuading , cannot be denied unto any man. the care therefore of every man's soul belongs unto himself , and is to be left unto himself . but what if he neglect the care of his soul ? i answer , what if he neglect the care of his health , or of his estate , which things are nearlier related to the government of the magistrate than the other ? will the magistrate provide by an express law , that such an one shall not become poor or sick ? laws provide , as much as is possible , that the goods and health of subjects be not injured by the fraud or violence of others ; they do not guard them from the negligence or ill-husbandry of the possessors themselves . no man can be forced to be rich or healthful , whether he will or no. nay , god himself will not save men against their wills . let us suppose , however , that some prince were desirous to force his subjects to accumulate riches , or to preserve the health and strength of their bodies . shall it be provided by law , that they must consult none but roman physicians , and shall every one be bound to live according to their prescriptions ? what , shall no potion , no broth , be taken , but what is prepared either in the vatican , suppose , or in a geneva shop ? or , to make these subjects rich , shall they all be obliged by law to become merchants , or musicians ? or , shall every one turn victualler , or smith , because there are some that maintain their families plentifully , and grow rich in those professions ? but it may be said , there are a thousand ways to wealth , but one only way to heaven . 't is well said indeed , especially by those that plead for compelling men into this or the other way . for if there were several ways that lead thither , there would not be so much as a pretence left for compulsion . but now if i be marching on with my utmost vigour , in that way which , according to the sacred geography , leads streight to ierusalem ; why am i beaten and ill used by others , because , perhaps , i wear not buskins ; because my hair is not of the right cut ; because perhaps i have not been dip't in the right fashion ; because i eat flesh upon the road , or some other food which agrees with my stomach ; because i avoid certain by-ways , which seem unto me to lead into briars or precipices ; because amongst the several paths that are in the same road , i choose that to walk in which seems to be the streightest and cleanest ; because i avoid to keep company with some travellers that are less grave , and others that are more sowre that they ought to be ; or in fine , because i follow a guide that either is , or is not , clothed in white , and crowned with a miter ? certainly , if we consider right , we shall find that for the most part they are such frivolous things as these , that ( without any prejudice to religion or the salvation of souls , if not accompanied with superstition or hypocrisie ) might either be observed or omitted ; i say they are such like things as as these , which breed implacable enmities amongst christian brethren , who are all agreed in the substantial and truly fundamental part of religion . but let us grant unto these zealots , who condemn all things that are not of their mode , that from these circumstances arise different ends. what shall we conclude from thence ? there is only one of these which is the true way to eternal happiness . but in this great variety of ways that men follow , it is still doubted which is this right one . now neither the care of the commonwealth , nor the right of enacting laws , does discover this way that leads to heaven more certainly to the magistrate , than every private mans search and study discovers it unto himself . i have a weak body , sunk under a languishing disease , for which ( i suppose ) there is one only remedy , but that unknown . does it therefore belong unto the magistrate to prescribe me a remedy , because there is but one , and because it is unknown ? because there is but one way for me to escape death , will it therefore be safe for me to do whatsoever the magistrate ordains ? those things that every man ought sincerely to enquire into himself , and by meditation , study , search , and his own endeavours , attain the knowledge of , cannot be looked upon as the peculiar possession of any one sort of men. princes indeed are born superior unto other men in power , but in nature equal . neither the right , nor the art of ruling , does necessarily carry along with it the certain knowledge of other things ; and least of all of the true religion . for if it were so , how could it come to pass that the lords of the earth should differ so vastly as they do in religious matters ? but let us grant that it is probable the way to eternal life may be better known by a prince than by his subjects ; or at least , that in this incertitude of things , the safest and most commodious way for private persons is to follow his dictates . you will say , what then ? if he should bid you follow merchandise for your livelihood , would you decline that course for fear it should not succeed ? i answer : i would turn merchant upon the princes command , because in case i should have ill success in trade , he is abundantly able to make up my loss some other way . if it be true , as he pretends , that he desires i should thrive and grow rich , he can set me up again when unsuccessful voyages have broke me . but this is not the case , in the things that regard the life to come . if there i take a wrong course , if in that respect i am once undone , it is not in the magistrates power to repair my loss , to ease my suffering , nor to restore me in any measure , much less entirely , to a good estate . what security can be given for the kingdom of heaven ? perhaps some will say that they do not suppose this infallible judgment , that all men are bound to follow in the affairs of religion , to be in the civil magistrate , but in the church . what the church has determined , that the civil magistrate orders to be observed ; and he provides by his authority that no body shall either act or believe , in the business of religion , otherwise than the church teaches . so that the judgment of those things is in the church . the magistrate himself yields obedience thereunto , and requires the like obedience from others . i answer : who sees not how frequently the name of the church , which was so venerable in the time of the apostles , has been made use of to throw dust in peoples eyes , in following ages ? but however , in the present case it helps us not . the one only narrow way which leads to heaven is not better known to the magistrate than to private persons , and therefore i cannot safely take him for my guide , who may probably be as ignorant of the way as my self , and who certainly is less concerned for my salvation than i my self am . amongst so many kings of the iews , how many of them were there whom any israelite , thus blindly following , had not fall'n into idolatry , and thereby into destruction ? yet nevertheless , you bid me be of good courage , and tell me that all is now safe and secure , because the magistrate does not now enjoin the observance of his own decrees in matters of religion , but only the decrees of the church . of what church i beseech you ? of that certainly which likes him best . as if he that compells me by laws and penalties to enter into this or the other church , did not interpose his own judgment in the matter . what difference is there whether he lead me himself , or deliver me over to be led by others ? i depend both ways upon his will , and it is he that determines both ways of my eternal state. would an israelite , that had worshipped baal upon the command of his king , have been in any better condition , because some body had told him that the king ordered nothing in religion upon his own head , nor commanded any thing to be done by his subjects in divine worship , but what was approved by the counsel of priests , and declared to be of divine right by the doctors of their church ? if the religion of any church become therefore true and saving , because the head of that sect , the prelates and priests , and those of that tribe , do all of them , with all their might , extol and praise it ; what religion can ever be accounted erroneous , false and destructive ? i am doubtful concerning the doctrine of the socinians , i am suspicious of the way of worship practised by the papists , or lutherans ; will it be ever a jot the safer for me to join either unto the one or the other of those churches , upon the magistrates command , because he commands nothing in religion but by the authority and counsel of the doctors of that church ? but to speak the truth , we must acknowledge that the church ( if a convention of clergy-men , making canons , must be called by that name ) is for the most part more apt to be influenced by the court , than the court by the church . how the church was under the vicissitude of orthodox and arrian emperors is very well known . or if those things be too remote , our modern english history affords us fresh examples , in the reigns of henry the th , edward the th , mary , and elizabeth , how easily and smoothly the clergy changed their decrees , their articles of faith , their form of worship , every thing , according to the inclination of those kings and queens . yet were those kings and queens of such different minds , in point of religion , and enjoined thereupon such different things , that no man in his wits ( i had almost said none but an atheist ) will presume to say that any sincere and upright worshipper of god could , with a safe conscience , obey their several decrees . to conclude . it is the same thing whether a king that prescribes laws to another mans religion pretend to do it by his own judgment , or by the ecclesiastical authority and advice of others . the decisions of church-men , whose differences and disputes are sufficiently known , cannot be any founder , or safer than his : nor can all their suffrages joined together add any new strength unto the civil power . tho this also must be taken notice of , that princes seldom have any regard to the suffrages of ecclesiasticks that are not favourers of their own faith and way of worship . but after all , the principal consideration , and which absolutely determines this controversie , is this . although the magistrates opinion in religion be sound , and the way that he appoints be truly evangelical , yet if i be not thoroughly perswaded thereof in my own mind , there will be no safety for me in following it . no way whatsoever that i shall walk in , against the dictates of my conscience , will ever bring me to the mansions of the blessed . i may grow rich by an art that i take not delight in ; i may be cured of some disease by remedies that i have not faith in ; but i cannot be saved by a religion that i distrust , and by a worship that i abhor . it is in vain for an unbeliever to take up the outward shew of another mans profession . faith only , and inward sincerity , are the things that procure acceptance with god. the most likely and most approved remedy can have no effect upon the patient , if his stomach reject it as soon taken . and you will in vain cram a medicine down a sick mans throat , which his particular constitution will be sure to turn into poison . in a word . whatsoever may be doubtful in religion , yet this at least is certain , that no religion , which i believe not to be true , can be either true , or profitable unto me . in vain therefore do princes compel their subjects to come into their church-communion , under pretence of saving their souls . if they believe , they will come of their own accord ; if they believe not , their coming will nothing avail them . how great soever , in fine , may be the pretence of good-will , and charity , and concern for the salvation of mens souls , men cannot be forced to be saved whether they will or no. and therefore , when all is done , they must be left to their own consciences . having thus at length freed men from all dominion over one another in matters of religion , let us now consider what they are to do . all men know and acknowledge that god ought to be publickly worshipped . why otherwise do they compel one another unto the publick assemblies ? men therefore constituted in this liberty are to enter into some religious society , that they may meet together , not only for mutual edification , but to own to the world that they worship god , and offer unto his divine majesty such service as they themselves are not ashamed of , and such as they think not unworthy of him , nor unacceptable to him ; and finally that by the purity of doctrine , holiness of life , and decent form of worship , they may draw others unto the love of the true religion , and perform such other things in religion as cannot be done by each private man apart . these religious societies i call churches : and these i say the magistrate ought to tolerate . for the business of these assemblies of the people is nothing but what is lawful for every man in particular to take care of ; i mean the salvation of their souls : nor in this case is there any difference between the national church , and other separated congregations . but as in every church there are two things especially to be considered ; the outward form and rites of worship , and the doctrines and articles of faith ; these things must be handled each distinctly ; that so the whole matter of toleration may the more clearly be understood . concerning outward worship , i say ( in the first place ) that the magistrate has no power to enforce by law , either in his own church , or much less in another , the use of any rites or ceremonies whatsoever in the worship of god. and this , not only because these churches are free societies , but because whatsoever is practised in the worship of god , is only so far justifiable as it is believed by those that practise it to be acceptable unto him . whatsoever is not done with that assurance of faith , is neither well in it self , nor can it be acceptable to god. to impose such things therefore upon any people , contrary to their own judgment , is in effect to command them to offend god ; which , considering that the end of all religion is to please him , and that liberty is essentially necessary to that end , appears to be absurd beyond expression . but perhaps it may be concluded from hence , that i deny unto the magistrate all manner of power about indifferent things ; which if it be not granted , the whole subject-matter of law-making is taken away . no , i readily grant that indifferent things , and perhaps none but such , are subjected to the legislative power . but it does not therefore follow , that the magistrate may ordain whatsoever he pleases concerning any thing that is indifferent . the publick good is the rule and measure of all law-making . if a thing be not useful to the common-wealth , tho it it be never so indifferent , it may not presently be established by law. and further : things never so indifferent in their own nature , when they are brought into the church and worship of god , are removed out of the reach of the magistrate's jurisdiction ; because in that use they have no connection at all with civil affairs . the only business of the church is the salvation of souls : and it no ways concerns the common-wealth , or any member of it , that this , or the other ceremony be there made use of . neither the use , nor the omission of any ceremonies , in those religious assemblies , does either advantage or prejudice the life , liberty , or estate of any man. for example : let it be granted , that the washing of an infant with water is in it self an indifferent thing . let it be granted also , that if the magistrate understand such washing to be profitable to the curing or preventing of any disease that children are subject unto , and esteem the matter weighty enough to be taken care of by a law , in that case he may order it to be done . but will any one therefore say , that a magistrate has the same right to ordain , by law , that all children shall be baptized by priests , in the sacred font , in order to the purification of their souls ? the extream difference of these two cases is visible to every one at first sight . or let us apply the last case to the child of a iew , and the thing speaks it self . for what hinders but a christian magistrate may have subjects that are iews ? now if we acknowledge that such an injury may not be done unto a iew , as to compel him , against his own opinion , to practice in his religion a thing that is in its nature indifferent ; how can we maintain that any thing of this kind may be done to a christian ? again : things in their own nature indifferent cannot , by any human authority , be made any part of the worship of god ; for this very reason ; because they are indifferent . for since indifferent things are not capable , by any virtue of their own , to propitiate the deity ; no human power or authority can confer on them so much dignity and excellency as to enable them to do it . in the common affairs of life , that use of indifferent things which god has not forbidden , is free and lawful : and therefore in those things human authority has place . but it is not so in matters of religion . things indifferent are not otherwise lawful in the worship of god than as they are instituted by god himself ; and as he , by some positive command , has ordain'd them to be made a part of that worship which he will vouchsafe to accept of at the hands of poor sinful men . nor when an incensed deity shall ask us , who has required these , or such like things at our hands ? will it be enough to answer him , that the magistrate commanded them . if civil jurisdiction extended thus far , what might not lawfully be introduced into religion ? what hodge-podge of ceremonies , what superstitious inventions , built upon the magistrate's authority , might not ( against conscience ) be imposed upon the worshippers of god ? for the greatest part of these ceremonies and superstions consists in the religious use of such things as are in their own nature indifferent : nor are they sinful upon any other account than because god is not the author of them . the sprinkling of water , and the use of bread and wine , are both in their own nature , and in the ordinary occasions of life , altogether indifferent . will any man therefore say that these things could have been introduced into religion , and made a part of divine worship , if not by divine institution ? if any human authority or civil power could have done this , why might it not also injoyn the eating of fish , and drinking of ale , in the holy banquet , as a part of divine worship ? why not the sprinkling of the blood of beasts in churches , and expiations by water or fire , and abundance more of this kind ? but these things , how indifferent soever they be in common uses , when they come to be annexed unto divine worship , without divine authority , they are as abominable to god , as the sacrifice of a dog. and why a dog so abominable ? what difference is there between a dog and a goat , in respect of the divine nature , equally and infinitely distant from all affinity with matter ; unless it be that god required the use of the one in his worship , and not of the other ? we see therefore that indifferent things how much soever they be under the power of the civil magistrate , yet cannot upon that pretence be introduced into religion , and imposed upon religious assemblies ; because in the worship of god they wholly cease to be indifferent . he that worships god does it with design to please him and procure his favour . but that cannot be done by him , who , upon the command of another , offers unto god that which he knows will be displeasing to him , because not commanded by himself . this is not to please god , or appease his wrath , but willingly and knowingly to provoke him , by a manifest contempt ; which is a thing absolutely repugnant to the nature and end of worship . but it will here be asked : if nothing belonging to divine worship be left to human discretion , how is it then that churches themselves have the power of ordering any thing about the time and place of worship , and the like ? to this i answer ; that in religious worship we must distinguish between what is part of the worship it self , and what is but a circumstance . that is a part of the worship which is believed to be appointed by god , and to be well-pleasing to him ; and therefore that is necessary . circumstances are such things which , tho' in general they cannot be separated from worship , yet the particular instances or modifications of them are not determined ; and therefore they are indifferent . of this sort are the time and place of worship , the habit and posture of him that worships . these are circumstances , and perfectly indifferent , where god has not given any express command about them . for example : amongst the iews , the time and place of their worship , and the habits of those that officiated in it , were not meer circumstances , but a part of the worship it self ; in which if any thing were defective , or different from the institution , they could not hope that it would be accepted by god. but these , to christians under the liberty of the gospel , are meer circumstances of worship , which the prudence of every church may bring into such use as shall be judged most subservient to the end of order , decency , and edification . but , even under the gospel , those who believe the first , or the seventh day to be set apart by god , and consecrated still to his worship , to them that portion of time is not a simple circumstance , but a real part of divine worship , which can neither be changed nor neglected . in the next place : as the magistrate has no power to impose by his laws , the use of any rites and ceremonies in any church , so neither has he any power to forbid the use of such rites and ceremonies as are already received , approved , and practised by any church : because if he did so , he would destroy the church it self ; the end of whose institution is only to worship god with freedom , after its own manner . you will say , by this rule , if some congregations should have a mind to sacrifice infants , or ( as the primitive christians were falsely accused ) lustfully pollute themselves in promiscuous uncleanness , or practise any other such heinous enormities , is the magistrate obliged to tolerate them , because they are committed in a religious assembly ? i answer , no. these things are not lawful in the ordinary course of life , nor in any private house ; and therefore neither are they so in the worship of god , or in any religious meeting . but indeed if any people congregated upon account of religion , should be desirous to sacrifice a calf , i deny that that ought to be prohibited by a law. melibaeus , whose calf it is , may lawfully kill his calf at home , and burn any part of it that he thinks fit . for no injury is thereby done to any one , no prejudice to another mans goods . and for the same reason he may kill his calf also in a religious meeting . whether the doing so be well-pleasing to god or no , it is their part to consider that do it . the part of the magistrate is only to take care that the commonwealth receive no prejudice , and that there be no injury done to any man , either in life or estate . and thus what may be spent on a feast , may be spent on a sacrifice . but if peradventure such were the state of things , that the interest of the commonwealth required all slaughter of beasts should be forborn for some while , in order to the increasing of the stock of cattel , that had been destroyed by some extraordinary murrain ; who sees not that the magistrate , in such a case , may forbid all his subjects to kill any calves for any use whatsoever ? only 't is to be observed , that in this case the law is not made about a religious , but a political matter : nor is the sacrifice , but the slaughter of calves thereby prohibited . by this we see what difference there is between the church and the commonwealth . whatsoever is lawful in the commonwealth , cannot be prohibited by the magistrate in the church . whatsoever is permitted unto any of his subjects for their ordinary use , neither can nor ought to be forbidden by him to any sect of people for their religious uses . if any man may lawfully take bread or wine , either sitting or kneeling , in his own house , the law ought not to abridge him of the same liberty in his religious worship ; tho' in the church the use of bread and wine be very different , and be there applied to the mysteries of faith , and rites of divine worship . but those things that are prejudicial to the commonweal of a people in their ordinary use , and are therefore forbidden by laws , those things ought not to be permitted to churches in their sacred rites . onely the magistrate ought always to be very careful that he do not misuse his authority , to the oppression of any church , under pretence of publick good. it may be said ; what if a church be idolatrous , is that also to be tolerated by the magistrate ? i answer . what power can be given to the magistrate for the suppression of an idolatrous church , which may not , in time and place , be made use of to the ruine of an orthodox one ? for it must be remembred that the civil power is the same every where , and the religion of every prince is orthodox to himself . if therefore such a power be granted unto the civil magistrate in spirituals , as that at geneva ( for example ) he may extirpate , by violence and blood , the religion which is there reputed idolatrous ; by the same rule another magistrate , in some neighbouring country , may oppress the reformed religion ; and , in india , the christian. the civil power can either change every thing in religion , according to the prince's pleasure , or it can change nothing . if it be once permitted to introduce any thing into religion , by the means of laws and penalties , there can be no bounds put to it ; but it will in the same manner be lawful to alter every thing , according to that rule of truth which the magistrate has framed unto himself . no man whatsoever ought therefore to be deprived of his terrestrial enjoyments , upon account of his religion . not even americans , subjected unto a christian prince , are to be punished either in body or goods , for not imbracing our faith and worship . if they are perswaded that they please god in observing the rites of their own country , and that they shall obtain happiness by that means , they are to be left unto god and themselves . let us trace this matter to the bottom . thus it is . an inconsiderable and weak number of christians , destitute of every thing , arrive in a pagan country : these foreigners beseech the inhabitants , by the bowels of humanity , that they would succour them with the necessaries of life : those necessaries are given them ; habitations are granted ; and they all joyn together , and grow up into one body of people . the christian religion by this means takes root in that countrey , and spreads it self ; but does not suddenly grow the strongest . while things are in this condition , peace , friendship , faith and equal justice , are preserved amongst them . at length the magistrate becomes a christian , and by that means their party becomes the most powerful . then immediately all compacts are to be broken , all civil rights to be violated , that idolatry may be extirpated : and unless these innocent pagans , strict observers of the rules of equity and the law of nature , and no ways offending against the laws of the society , i say unless they will forsake their ancient religion , and embrace a new and strange one , they are to be turned out of the lands and possessions of their forefathers , and perhaps deprived of life it self . then at last it appears what zeal for the church , joyned with the desire of dominion , is capable to produce ; and how easily the pretence of religion , and of the care of souls , serves for a cloak to covetousness , rapine , and ambition . now whosoever maintains that idolatry is to be rooted out of any place by laws , punishments , fire , and sword , may apply this story to himself . for the reason of the thing is equal , both in america and europe . and neither pagans there , nor any dissenting christians here , can with any right be deprived of their worldly goods , by the predominating faction of a court-church : nor are any civil rights to be either changed or violated upon account of religion in one place more than another . but idolatry ( say some ) is a sin , and therefore not to be tolerated . if they said it were therefore to be avoided , the inference were good . but it does not follow , that because it is a sin it ought therefore to be punished by the magistrate . for it does not belong unto the magistrate to make use of his sword in punishing every thing , indifferently , that he takes to be a sin against god. covetousness , uncharitableness , idleness , and many other things are sins , by the consent of all men , which yet no man ever said were to be punished by the magistrate . the reason is , because they are not prejudicial to other mens rights , nor do they break the publick peace of societies . nay , even the sins of lying and perjury , are no where punishable by laws ; unless in certain cases , in which the real turpitude of the thing , and the offence against god , are not considered , but only the injury done unto mens neighbours , and to the commonwealth . and what if in another country , to a mahumetan or a pagan prince , the christian religion seem false and offensive to god ; may not the christians for the same reason , and after the same manner , be extirpated there ? but it may be urged further , that by the law of moses idolaters were to be rooted out . true indeed , by the law of moses . but that is not obligatory to us christians . no body pretends that every thing , generally , enjoyned by the law of moses , ought to be practised by christians . but there is nothing more frivolous than that common distinction of moral , judicial , and ceremonial law , which men ordinarily make use of . for no positive law whatsoever can oblige any people but those to whom it is given . hear o israel ; sufficienly restrains the obligation of the law of moses only to that people . and this consideration alone is answer enough unto those that urge the authority of the law of moses ; for the inflicting of capital punishments upon idolaters . but however , i will examine this argument a little more particularly . the case of idolaters , in respect of the iewish commonwealth , falls under a double consideration . the first is of those who , being initiated in the mosaical rites , and made citizens of that commonwealth , did afterwards apostatise from the worship of the god of israel . these were proceeded against as traytors and rebels , guilty of no less than high-treason . for the common-wealth of the iews , different in that from all others , was an absolute theocracy : nor was there , or could there be , any difference between that commonwealth and the church . the laws established there concerning the worship of one invisible deity , were the civil laws of that people , and a part of their political government ; in which god himself was the legislator . now if any one can shew me where there is a commonwealth , at this time , constituted upon that foundation , i will acknowledge that the ecclesiastical laws do there unavoidably become a part of the civil ; and that the subjects of that government both may , and ought to be kept in strict conformity with that church , by the civil power . but there is absolutely no such thing , under the gospel , as a christian common-wealth . there are , indeed , many cities and kingdoms that have embraced the faith of christ ; but they have retained their ancient form of government ; with which the law of christ hath not at all medled . he , indeed , hath taught men how , by faith and good works , they may attain eternal life . but he instituted no common-wealth . he prescribed unto his followers no new and peculiar form of government ; nor put he the sword into any magistrate's hand , with commission to make use of it in forcing men to forsake their former religion , and receive his . secondly . foreigners , and such as were strangers to the commonwealth of israel , were not compell'd by force to observe the rites of the mosaical law. but , on the contrary , in the very same place where it is ordered that an israelite that was an idolater should be put to death , there it is provided that strangers should not be vexed nor oppressed . i confess that the seven nations , that possest the land which was promised to the israelites , were utterly to be cut off . but this was not singly because they were idolaters . for , if that had been the reason , why were the moabites and other nations to be spared ? no ; the reason is this . god being in a peculiar manner the king of the iews , he could not suffer the adoration of any other deity ( which was properly an act of high-treason against himself ) in the land of canaan , which was his kingdom . for such a manifest revolt could no ways consist with his dominion , which was perfectly political , in that country . all idolatry was therefore to be rooted out of the bounds of his kingdom ; because it was an acknowledgment of another god , that is to say , another king ; against the laws of empire . the inhabitants were also to be driven out , that the intire possession of the land might be given to the israelites . and for the like reason the emims and the horims were driven out of their countries , by the children of esau and lot ; and their lands , upon the same grounds , given by god to the invaders . but tho all idolatry was thus rooted out of the land of canaan , yet every idolater was not brought to execution . the whole family of rahab , the whole nation of the gibeonites , articled with iosuah , and were allowed by treaty : and there were many captives amongst the iews , who were idolaters . david and solomon subdued many countries without the confines of the land of promise , and carried their conquests as far as euphrates . amongst so many captives taken , so many nations reduced under their obedience , we find not one man forced into the jewish religion , and the worship of the true god , and punished for idolatry , tho all of them were certainly guilty of it . if any one indeed , becoming a proselyte , desired to be made a denison of their commonwealth , he was obliged to submit unto their laws ; that is , to embrace their religion . but this he did willingly , on his own accord , not by constraint . he did not unwillingly submit , to shew his obedience ; but he sought and sollicited for it , as a privilege . and as soon as he was admitted , he became subject to the laws of the common-wealth , by which all idolatry was forbidden within the borders of the land of canaan . but that law ( as i have said ) did not reach to any of those regions , however subjected unto the iews , that were situated without those bounds . thus far concerning outward worship . let us now consider articles of faith. the articles of religion are some of them practical , and some speculative . now , tho both sorts consist in the knowledge of truth , yet these terminate simply in the understanding , those influence the will and manners . speculative opinions , therefore , and articles of faith ( as they are called ) which are required only to be believed , cannot be imposed on any church by the law of the land. for it is absurd that things should be enjoyned by laws , which are not in mens power to perform . and to believe this or that to be true , does not depend upon our will. but of this enough has been said already . but ( will some say ) let men at least profess that they believe . a sweet religion indeed , that obliges men to dissemble , and tell lies both to god and man , for the salvation of their souls ! if the magistrate thinks to save men thus , he seems to understand little of the way of salvation . and if he does it not in order to save them , why is he so so sollicitous about the articies of faith as to enact them by a law ? further , the magistrate ought not to forbid the preaching or professing of any speculative opinions in any church , because they have no manner of relation to the civil rights of the subjects . if a roman catholick believe that to be really the body of christ , which another man calls bread , he does no injury thereby to his neighbour . if a iew do not believe the new testament to be the word of god , he does not thereby alter any thing in mens civil rights . if a heathen doubt of both testaments , he is not therefore to be punished as a pernicious citizen . the power of the magistrate , and the estates of the people , may be equally secure , whether any man believe these things or no. i readily grant , that these opinions are false and absurd . but the business of laws is not to provide for the truth of opinions , but for the safety and security of the commonwealth , and of every particular mans goods and person . and so it ought to be . for truth certainly would do well enough , if she were once left to shift for her self . she seldom has received , and i fear never will receive much assistance from the power of great men , to whom she is but rarely known , and more rarely welcome . she is not taught by laws , nor has she any need of force to procure her entrance into the minds of men . errors indeed prevail by the assistance of forreign and borrowed succours . but if truth makes not her way into the understanding by her own light , she will be but the weaker for any borrowed force violence can add to her . thus much for speculative opinions . let us now proceed to practical ones . a good life , in which consists not the least part of religion and true piety , concerns also the civil govrnment : and in it lies the safety both of mens souls , and of the commonwealth . moral actions belong therefore to the jurisdiction both of the outward and inward court ; both of the civil and domestick governor ; i mean , both of the magistrate and conscience . here therefore is great danger , least one of these jurisdictions intrench upon the other , and discord arise between the keeper of the publick peace and the overseers of souls . but if what has been already said concerning the limits of both these governments be rightly considered , it will easily remove all difficulty in this matter . every man has an immortal soul , capable of eternal happiness or misery ; whose happiness depending upon his believing and doing those things in this life , which are necessary to the obtaining of gods favour , and are prescribed by god to that end ; it follows from thence , st , that the observance of these things is the highest obligation that lies upon mankind , and that our utmost care , application , and diligence , ought to be exercised in the search and performance of them ; because there is nothing in this world that is of any consideration in comparison with eternity . dly , that seeing one man does not violate the right of another , by his erroneous opinions , and undue manner of worship , nor is his perdition any prejudice to another mans affairs ; therefore the care of each mans salvation belongs only to himself . but i would not have this understood , as if i meant hereby to condemn all charitable admonitions , and affectionate endeavours to reduce men from errors ; which are indeed the greatest duty of a christian. any one may employ as many exhortations and arguments as he pleases , towards the promoting of another man's salvation . but all force and compulsion are to be forborn . nothing is to be done imperiously . no body is obliged in that matter to yield obedience unto the admonitions or injunctions of another , further than he himself is perswaded . every man , in that , has the supreme and absolute authority of judging for himself . and the reason is , because no body else is concerned in it , nor can receive any prejudice from his conduct therein . but besides their souls , which are immortal , men have also their temporal lives here upon earth ; the state whereof being frail and fleeting , and the duration uncertain ; they have need of several outward conveniences to the support thereof , which are to be procured or preserved by pains and industry . for those things that are necessary to the comfortable support of our lives are not the spontaneous products of nature , nor do offer themselves fit and prepared for our use . this part therefore draws on another care , and necessarily gives another imployment . but the pravity of mankind being such , that they had rather injuriously prey upon the fruits of other mens labours , than take pains to provide for themselves ; the necessity of preserving men in the possession of what honest industry has already acquired , and also of preserving their liberty and strength , whereby they may acquire what they further want ; obliges men to enter into society with one another ; that by mutual assistance , and joint force , they may secure unto each other their proprieties , in the things that contribute to the comfort and happiness of this life ; leaving in the mean while to every man the care of his own eternal happiness , the attainment whereof can neither be facilitated by another mans industry , nor can the loss of it turn to another mans prejudice , nor the hope of it be forced from him by any external violence . but forasmuch as men thus entring into societies , grounded upon their mutual compacts of assistance , for the defence of their temporal goods , may nevertheless be deprived of them , either by the rapine and fraud of their fellow-citizens , or by the hostile violence of forreigners ; the remedy of this evil consists in arms , riches , and multitude of citizens ; the remedy of the other in laws ; and the care of all things relating both to the one and the other , is committed by the society to the civil magistrate . this is the original , this is the use , and these are the bounds of the legislative ( which is the supreme ) power , in every commonwealth . i mean , that provision may be made for the security of each mans private possessions ; for the peace , riches , and publick commodities of the whole people ; and , as much as possible , for the increase of their inward strength , against forreign invasions . these things being thus explain'd , it is easie to understand to what end the legislative power ought to be directed , and by what measures regulated ; and that is the temporal good and outward prosperity of the society ; which is the sole reason of mens entring into society , and the only thing they seek and aim at in it . and it is also evident what liberty remains to men in reference to their eternal salvation , and that is , that every one should do what he in his conscience is perswaded to be acceptable to the almighty , on whose good pleasure and acceptance depends their eternal happiness . for obedience is due in the first place to god , and afterwards to the laws . but some may ask , what if the magistrate should enjoyn any thing by his authority that appears unlawful to the conscience of a private person ? i answer , that if government be faithfully administred , and the counsels of the magistrate be indeed directed to the publick good , this will seldom happen . but if perhaps it do so fall out ; i say , that such a private person is to abstain from the action that he judges unlawful ; and he is to undergo the punishment , which it is not unlawful for him to bear . for the private judgment of any person concerning a law enacted in political matters , for the publick good , does not take away the obligation of that law , nor deserve a dispensation . but if the law indeed be concerning things that lie not within the verge of the magistrate's authority ; ( as for example , that the people , or any party amongst them , should be compell'd to embrace a strange religion , and join in the worship and ceremonies of another church , ) men are not in these cases obliged by that law , against their consciences . for the political society is instituted for no other end but only to secure every mans possession of the things of this life . the care of each mans soul , and of the things of heaven , which neither does belong to the common-wealth , nor can be subjected to it , is left entirely to every mans self . thus the safeguard of mens lives , and of the things that belong unto this life , is the business of the commonwealth ; and the preserving of those things unto their owners is the duty of the magistrate . and therefore the magistrate cannot take away these worldly things from this man , or party , and give them to that ; nor change propriety amongst fellow-subjects , ( no not even by a law ) for a cause that has no relation to the end of civil government ; i mean , for their religion ; which whether it be true or false , does no prejudice to the worldly concerns of their fellow-subjects , which are the things that only belong unto the care of the commonwealth . but what if the magistrate believe such a law as this to be for the publick good ? i answer : as the private judgment of any particular person , if erroneous , does not exempt him from the obligation of law , so the private judgment ( as i may call it ) of the magistrate does not give him any new right of imposing laws upon his jects , which neither was in the constitution of the government granted him , nor ever was in the power of the people to grant : much less , if he make it his business to enrich and advance his followers and fellow-sectaries , with the spoils of others . but what if the magistrate believe that he has a right to make such laws , and that they are for the publick good ; and his subjects believe the contrary ? who shall be judge between them ? i answer , god alone . for there is no judge upon earth between the supreme magistrate and the people . god , i say , is the only judge in this case , who will retribute unto every one at the last day according to his deserts ; that is , according to his sincerity and uprightness in endeavouring to promote piety , and the publick weal and peace of mankind . but what shall be done in the mean while ? i answer : the principal and chief care of every one ought to be of his own soul first , and in the next place of the publick peace : tho' yet there are very few will think 't is peace there , where they see all laid waste . there are two sorts of contests amongst men ; the one managed by law , the other by force : and these are of that nature , that where the one ends , the other always begins . but it is not my business to inquire into the power of the magistrate in the different constitutions of nations . i only know what usually happens where controversies arise , without a judge to determine them . you will say then the magistrate being the stronger will have his will , and carry his point . without doubt . but the question is not here concerning the doubtfulness of the event , but the rule of right . but to come to particulars . i say , first , no opinions contrary to human society , or to those moral rules which are necessary to the preservation of civil society , are to be tolerated by the magistrate . but of these indeed examples in any church are rare . for no sect can easily arrive to such a degree of madness , as that it should think sit to teach , for doctrines of religion , such things as manifestly undermine the foundations of society , and are therefore condemned by the judgment of all mankind : because their own interest , peace , reputation , every thing , would be thereby endangered . another more secret evil , but more dangerous to the commonwealth , is , when men arrogate to themselves , and to those of their own sect , some peculiar prerogative , covered over with a specious shew of deceitful words , but in effect opposite to the civil right of the community . for example . we cannot find any sect that teaches expresly , and openly , that men are not obliged to keep their promise ; that princes may be dethroned by those that differ from them in religion ; or that the dominion of all things belongs only to themselves . for these things , proposed thus nakedly and plainly , would soon draw on them the eye and hand of the magistrate , and awaken all the care of the commonwealth to a watchfulness against the spreading of so dangerous an evil. but nevertheless , we find those that say the same things , in other words . what else do they mean , who teach that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ? their meaning , forsooth , is that the priviledge of breaking faith belongs unto themselves : for they declare all that are not of their communion to be hereticks , or at least may declare them so whensoever they think fit . what can be the meaning of their asserting that kings excommunicated forfeit their crowns and kingdoms ? it is evident that they thereby arrogate unto themselves the power of deposing kings : because they challenge the power of excommunication , as the peculiar right of their hierarchy . that dominion is founded in grace , is also an assertion by which those that maintain it do plainly lay claim to the possession of all things . for they are not so wanting to themselves as not to believe , or at least as not to profess , themselves to be the truly pious and faithful . these therefore , and the like , who attribute unto the faithful , religious and orthodox , that is , in plain terms , unto themselves , any peculiar priviledge or power above other mortals , in civil concernments ; or who , upon pretence of religion , do challenge any manner of authority over such , as are not associated with them in their ecclesiastical communion ; i say these have no right to be tolerated by the magistrate ; as neither those that will not own and teach the duty of tolerating all men in matters of meer religion . for what do all these and the like doctrines signifie , but that they may , and are ready upon any occasion to seise the government , and possess themselves of the estates and fortunes of their fellow-subjects ; and that they only ask leave to be tolerated by the magistrate so long until they find themselves strong enough to effect it ? again : that church can have no right to be tolerated by the magistrate , which is constituted upon such a bottom , that all those who enter into it , do thereby , ipso facto , deliver themselves up to the protection and service of another prince . for by this means the magistrate would give way to the settling of a forrein jurisdiction in his own country , and suffer his own people to be listed , as it were , for souldiers against his own government . nor does the frivolous and fallacious distinction between the court and the church afford any remedy to this inconvenience ; especially when both the one and the other are equally subject to the absolute authority of the same person ; who has not only power to perswade the members of his church to whatsoever he lists , either as purely religious , or in order thereunto , but can also enjoyn it them on pain of eternal fire . it is ridiculous for any one to profess himself to be a mahumetan only in his religion , but in every thing else a faithful subject to a christian magistrate , whilst at the same time he acknowledges himself bound to yield blind obedience to the mufti of constantinople ; who himself is intirely obedient to the ottoman emperor , and frames the feigned oracles of that religion according to his pleasure . but this mahumetan living amongst christians , would yet more apparently renounce their government , if he acknowledged the same person to be head of his church who is the supreme magistrate in the state. lastly , those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of a god. promises , covenants , and oaths , which are the bonds of humane society , can have no hold upon an atheist . the taking away of god , tho but even in thought , dissolves all . besides also , those that by their atheism undermine and destroy all religion , can have no pretence of religion whereupon to challenge the privilege of a toleration . as for other practical opinions , tho not absolutely free from all error , if they do not tend to establish domination over others , or civil impunity to the church in which they are taught , there can be no reason why they should not be tolerated . it remains that i say something concerning those assemblies , which being vulgarly called , and perhaps having sometimes been conventicles , and nurseries of factions and seditions , are thought to afford the strongest matter of objection against this doctrine of toleration . but this has not hapned by any thing peculiar unto the genius of such assemblies , but by the unhappy circumstances of an oppressed or ill-setled liberty . these accusations would soon cease , if the law of toleration were once so setled , that all churches were obliged to lay down toleration as the foundation of their own liberty ; and teach that liberty of conscience is every mans natural right , equally belonging to dissenters as to themselves ; and that no body ought to be compelled in matters of religion , either by law or force . the establishment of this one thing would take away all ground of complaints and tumults upon account of conscience . and these causes of discontents and animosities being once removed , there would remain nothing in these assemblies that were not more peaceable , and less apt to produce disturbance of state , than in any other meetings whatsoever . but let us examine particularly the heads of these accusations . you 'll say , that assemblies and meetings endanger the publick peace , and threaten the commonwealth . i answer : if this be so , why are there daily such numerous meetings in markets , and courts of judicature ? why are crowds upon the exchange , and a concourse of people in cities suffered ? you 'll reply ; those are civil assemblies ; but these we object against , are ecclesiastical . i answer : 't is a likely thing indeed , that such assemblies as are altogether remote from civil affairs , should be most apt to embroyl them . o , but civil assemblies are composed of men that differ from one another in matters of religion ; but these ecclesiastical meetings are of persons that are all of one opinion . as if an agreement in matters of religion , were in effect a conspiracy against the commonwealth ; or as if men would not be so much the more warmly unanimous in religion , the less liberty they had of assembling . but it will be urged still , that civil assemblies are open , and free for any one to enter into ; whereas religious conventicles are more private , and thereby give opportunity to clandestine machinations . i answer , that this is not strictly true : for many civil assemblies are not open to every one . and if some religious meetings be private , who are they ( i beseech you ) that are to be blamed for it ? those that desire , or those that forbid their being publick ? again ; you 'll say , that religious communion does exceedingly unite mens minds and affections to one another , and is therefore the more dangerous . but if this be so , why is not the magistrate afraid of his own church ; and why does he not forbid their assemblies , as things dangerous to his government ? you 'll say , because he himself is a part , and even the head of them . as if he were not also a part of the commonwealth , and the head of the whole people . let us therefore deal plainly . the magistrate is afraid of other churches , but not of his own ; because he is kind and favourable to the one , but severe and cruel to the other . these he treats like children , and indulges them even to wantonness . those he uses as slaves ; and how blamelesly soever they demean themselves , recompenses them no otherwise than by gallies , prisons , confiscations , and death . these he cherishes and defends : those he continually scourges and oppresses . let him turn the tables : or let those dissenters enjoy but the same privileges in civils as his other subjects , and he will quickly find that these religious meetings will be no longer dangerous . for if men enter into seditious conspiracies , 't is not religion inspires them to it in their meetings ; but their sufferings and oppressions that make them willing to ease themselves . just and moderate governments are every where quiet , every where safe . but oppression raises ferments , and makes men struggle to cast off an uneasie and tyrannical yoke . i know that seditions are very frequently raised , upon pretence of religion . but 't is as true that , for religion , subjects are frequently ill treated , and live miserably . believe me , the stirs that are made , proceed not from any peculiar temper of this or that church or religious society ; but from the common disposition of all mankind , who when they groan under any heavy burthen , endeavour naturally to shake off the yoke that galls their necks . suppose this business of religion were let alone , and that there were some other distinction made between men and men , upon account of their different complexions , shapes , and features , so that those who have black hair ( for example ) or gray eyes , should not enjoy the same privileges as other citizens ; that they should not be permitted either to buy or sell , or live by their callings ; that parents should not have the government and education of their own children ; that all should either be excluded from the benefit of the laws , or meet with partial judges ; can it be doubted but these persons , thus distinguished from others by the colour of their hair and eyes , and united together by one common persecution , would be as dangerous to the magistrate , as any others that had associated themselves meerly upon the account of religion ? some enter into company for trade and profit : others , for want of business , have their clubs for clarret . neighbourhood joyns some , and religion others . but there is one only thing which gathers people into seditious commotions , and that is oppression . you 'll say ; what , will you have people to meet at divine service against the magistrates will ? i answer ; why , i pray , against his will ? is it not both lawful and necessary that they should meet ? against his will , do you say ? that 's what i complain of . that is the very root of all the mischief . why are assemblies less sufferable in a church than in a theater or market ? those that meet there are not either more vicious , or more turbulent , than those that meet elsewhere . the business in that is , that they are ill used , and therefore they are not to be suffered . take away the partiality that is used towards them in matters of common right ; change the laws , take away the penalties unto which they are subjected , and all things will immediately become safe and peaceable ; nay , those that are averse to the religion of the magistrate , will think themselves so much the more bound to maintain the peace of the commonwealth , as their condition is better in that place than elsewhere ; and all the several separate congregations , like so many guardians of the publick peace , will watch one another , that nothing may be innovated or changed in the form of the government : because they can hope for nothing better than what they already enjoy ; that is , an equal condition with their fellow-subjects , under a just and moderate government . now if that church , which agrees in religion with the prince , be esteemed the chief support of any civil government , and that for no other reason ( as has already been shewn ) than because the prince is kind , and the laws are favourable to it ; how much greater will be the security of a government , where all good subjects , of whatsoever church they be , without any distinction upon account of religion , enjoying the same favour of the prince , and the same benefit of the laws , shall become the common support and guard of it ; and where none will have any occasion to fear the severity of the laws , but those that do injuries to their neighbours , and offend against the civil peace ? that we may draw towards a conclusion . the sum of all we drive at is , that every man may enjoy the same rights that are granted to others . is it permitted to worship god in the roman manner ? let it be permitted to do it in the geneva form also . is it permitted to speak latin in the market-place ? let those that have a mind to it , be permitted to do it also in the church . is it lawfull for any man in his own house , to kneel , stand , sit , or use any other posture ; and to cloath himself in white or black , in short or in long garments ? let it not be made unlawful to eat bread , drink wine , or wash with water , in the church . in a word : whatsoever things are left free by law in the common occasions of life , let them remain free unto every church in divine worship . let no mans life , or body , or house , or estate , suffer any manner of prejudice upon these accounts . can you allow of the presbyterian discipline ? why should not the episcopal also have what they like ? ecclesiastical authority , whether it be administred by the hands of a single person , or many , is every where the same ; and neither has any jurisdiction in things civil , nor any manner of power of compulsion , nor any thing at all to do with riches and revenues . ecclesiastical assemblies , and sermons , are justified by daily experience , and publick allowance . these are allowed to people of some one perswasion : why not to all ? if any thing pass in a religious meeting seditiously , and contrary to the publick peace , it is to be punished in the same manner , and no otherwise , than as if it had happened in a fair or market . these meetings ought not to be sanctuaries for factious and flagitious fellows : nor ought it to be less lawful for men to meet in churches than in halls : nor are one part of the subjects to be esteemed more blameable , for their meeting together , than others . every one is to be accountable for his own actions ; and no man is to be laid under a suspition , or odium , for the fault of another . those that are seditious , murderers , thieves , robbers , adulterers , slanderers , &c. of whatsoever church , whether national or not , ought to be punished and suppressed . but those whose doctrine is peaceable , and whose manners are pure and blameless , ought to be upon equal terms with their fellow-subjects . thus if solemn assemblies , observations of festivals , publick worship , be permitted to any one sort of professors ; all these things ought to be permitted to the presbyterians , independents , anabaptists , arminians , quakers , and others , with the same liberty . nay , if we may openly speak the truth , and as becomes one man to another , neither pagan , nor mahumetan , nor iew , ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth , because of his religion . the gospel commands no such thing . the church , which judges not those that are without , wants it not . and the commonwealth , which embraces indifferently all men that are honest , peaceable and industrious , repuires it not . shall we suffer a pagan to deal and trade with us , and shall we not suffer him to pray unto and worship god ? if we allow the iews to have private houses and dwellings amongst us , why should we not allow them to have synagogues ? is their doctrine more false , their worship more abominable , or is the civil peace more endangered , by their meeting in publick than in their private houses ? but if these things may be granted to iews and pagans , surely the condition of any christians ought not to be worse than theirs in a christian commonwealth . you 'll say , perhaps , yes , it ought to be : because they are more inclinable to factions , tumults , and civil wars . i answer : is this the fault of the christirn religion ? if it be so , truly the christian religion is the worst of all religions , and ought neither to be embraced by any particular person , nor tolerated by any commonwealth . for if this be the genius , this the nature of the christian religion , to be turbulent , and destructive to the civil peace , that church it self which the magistrate indulges will not always be innocent . but far be it from us to say any such thing of that religion , which carries the greatest opposition to covetousness , ambition , discord , contention , and all manner of inordinate desires ; and is the most modest and peaceable religion that ever was . we must therefore seek another cause of those evils that are charged upon religion . and if we consider right , we shall find it to consist wholly in the subject that i am treating of . it is not the diversity of opinions , ( which cannot be avoided ) but the refusal of toleration to those that are of different opinions , ( which might have been granted ) that has produced all the bustles and wars , that have been in the christian world , upon account of religion . the heads and leaders of the church , moved by avarice and insatiable desire of dominion , making use of the immoderate ambition of magistrates , and the credulous superstition of the giddy multitude , have incensed and animated them against those that dissent from themselves ; by preaching unto them , contrary to the laws of the gospel and to the precepts of charity , that schismaticks and hereticks are to be outed of their possessions , and destroyed . and thus have they mixed together and confounded two things that are in themselves most different , the church and the commonwealth . now as it is very difficult for men patiently to suffer themselves to be stript of the goods , which they have got by their honest industry ; and contrary to all the laws of equity , both humane and divine , to be delivered up for a prey to other mens violence and rapine ; especially when they are otherwise altogether blameless ; and that the occasion for which they are thus treated does not at all belong to the jurisdiction of the magistrate , but intirely to the conscience of every particular man ; for the conduct of which he is accountable to god only ; what else can be expected , but that these men , growing weary of the evils under which they labour , should in the end think it lawful for them to resist force with force , and to defend their natural rights ( which are not forfeitable upon account of religion ) with arms as well as they can ? that this has been hitherto the ordinary course of things , is abundantly evident in history : and that it will continue to be so hereafter , is but too apparent in reason . it cannot indeed be otherwise , so long as the principle of persecution for religion shall prevail , as it has done hitherto , with magistrate and people ; and so long as those that ought to be the preachers of peace and concord , shall continue , with all their art and strength , to excite men to arms , and sound the trumpet of war. but that magistrates should thus suffer these incendiaries , and disturbers of the publick peace , might justly be wondred at ; if it did not appear that they have been invited by them unto a participation of the spoil , and have therefore thought fit to make use of their covetousness and pride as means whereby to increase their own power . for who does not see that these good men are indeed more ministers of the government , than ministers of the gospel ; and that by flattering the ambition , and favouring the dominion of princes and men in authority , they endeavour with all their might to promote that tyranny in the commonwealth , which otherwise they should not be able to establish in the church ? this is the unhappy agreement that we see between the church and state. whereas if each of them would contain it self within its own bounds , the one attending to the worldly welfare of the commonwealth , the other to the salvation of souls , it is impossible that any discord should ever have hapned between them . sed , pudet haec opprobria , &c. god almighty grant , i beseech him , that the gospel of peace may at length be preached , and that civil magistrates growing more careful to conform their own consciences to the law of god , and less sollicitous about the binding of other mens consciences by humane laws , may , like fathers of their country , direct all their counsels and endeavours to promote universally the civil welfare of all their children ; except only of such as are arrogant , ungovernable , and injurious to their brethren , and that all ecclesiastical men , who boast themselves to be the successors of the apostles , walking peaceably and modesty in the apostles steps , without intermedling with state-affairs , may apply themselves wholly to promote the salvation of souls . farewell . perhaps it may not be amiss to add a few things concerning heresy and schism . a turk is not , nor can be , either heretick or schismatick , to a chrishian : and if any man fall off from the christian faith to mahumetism , he does not thereby become a heretick or schismatick , but an apostate and an infidel . this no body doubts of . and by this it appears that men of different religions cannot be hereticks or schismaticks to one another . we are to enquire therefore , what men are of the same religion . concerning which , it is manifest that those who have one and the same rule of faith and worship , are of the same religion : and those who have have not the same rule of faith and worship are of different religions . for since all things that belong unto that religion are contained in that rule , it follows necessarily that those who agree in one rule are of one and the same religion : and vice versa . thus turks and christians are of different religions : because these take the holy scriptures to be the rule of their religion , and those the alcoran . and for the same reason , there may be different religions also even amongst christians . the papists and the lutherans , tho' both of them profess faith in christ , and are therefore called christians , yet are not both of the same religion : because these acknowledge nothing but the holy scriptures to be the rule and foundation of their religion ; those take in also traditions and the decrees of popes , and of these together make the rule of their religion . and thus the christians of st. iohn ( as they are called ) and the christians of geneva are of different religions : because these also take only the scriptures ; and those i know not what traditions , for the rule of their religion . this being setled , it follows ; first , that heresy is a separation made in ecclesiastical communion between men of the same religion , for some opinions no way contained in the rule it self . and secondly , that amongst those who acknowledge nothing but the holy scriptures to be their rule of faith , heresy is a separation made in their christian communion , for opinions not contained in the express words of scripture . now this separation may be made in a twofold manner . . when the greater part , or ( by the magistrate's patronage ) the stronger part , of the church separates it self from others , by excluding them out of her communion , because they will not profess their belief of certain opinions which are not the express words of the scripture . for it is not the paucity of those that are separated , nor the authority of the magistrate , that can make any man guilty of heresy . but he only is an heretick who divides the church into parts , introduces names and marks of distinction , and voluntarily makes a separation because of such opinions . . when any one separates himself from the communion of a church , because that church does not publickly profess some certain opinions which the holy scriptures do not expresly teach . both these are hereticks : because they err in fundamentals , and they err obstinately against knowledge . for when they have determined the holy scriptures to be the only foundation of faith , they nevertheless lay down certain propositions as fundamental , which are not in the scripture ; and because others will not acknowledge these additional opinions of theirs , nor build upon them as if they were necessary and fundamental , they therefore make a separation in the church ; either by withdrawing themselves from the others , or expelling the others from them . nor does it signifie any thing for them to say that their confessions and symboles are agreeable to scripture , and to the analogy of faith. for if they be conceived in the express words of scripture , there can be no question about them ; because those things are acknowledged by all christians to be of divine inspiration , and therefore fundamental . but if they say that the articles which they require to be profess'd , are consequences deduced from the scripture ; it is undoubtedly well done of them who believe and profess such things as seem unto them so agreeable to the rule of faith. but it would be very ill done to obtrude those things upon others , unto whom they do not seem to be the indubitable doctrines of the scripture . and to make a separation for such things as these , which neither are nor can be fundamental , is to become hereticks . for i do not think there is any man arrived to that degree of madness , as that he dare give out his consequences and interpretations of scripture as divine inspirations , and compare the articles of faith that he has framed according to his own fancy with the authority of the scripture . i know there are some propositions so evidently agreeable to scripture , that no body can deny them to be drawn from thence : but about those therefore there can be no difference . this only i say , that however clearly we may think this or the other doctrine to be deduced from scripture , we ought not therefore to impose it upon others , as a necessary article of faith , because we believe it to be agreeable to the rule of faith ; unless we would be content also that other doctrines should be imposed upon us in the same manner ; and that we should be compell'd to receive and profess all the different and contradictory opinions of lutherans , calvinists , remonstrants , anabaptists , and other sects , which the contrivers of symbols , systems and confessions , are accustomed to deliver unto their followers as genuine and necessary deductions from the holy scripture . i cannot but wonder at the extravagant arrogance of those men who think that they themselves can explain things necessary to salvation more clearly than the holy ghost , the eternal and infinite wisdom of god. thus much concerning heresy ; which word in common use is applied only to the doctrinal part of religion . let us now consider schism , which is a crime near a-kin to it . for both those words seem unto me to signifie an ill-grounded separation in ecclesiastical communion , made about things not necessary . but since use , which is the supream law in matter of language , has determined that heresy relates to errors in faith , and schism to those in worship or discipline , we must consider them under that distinction . schism then , for the same reasons that have already been alledged , is nothing else but a separation made in the communion of the church , upon account of something in divine worship , or ecclesiastical discipline , that is not any necessary part of it . now nothing in worship or discipline can be necessary to christian communion , but what christ our legislator , or the apostles , by inspiration of the holy spirit , have commanded in express words . in a word : he that denies not any thing that the holy scriptures teach in express words , nor makes a separation upon occasion of any thing that is not manifestly contained in the sacred text ; however he may be nick-named by any sect of christians , and declared by some , or all of them to be utterly void of true christianity , yet indeed and in truth this man cannot be either a heretick or schismatick . these things might have been explained more largely , and more advantageously : but it is enough to have hinted at them , thus briefly , to a person of your parts . finis . books lately printed for awnsham churchill at the black swan at amen-corner . an historical account of making the penal laws by the papists against the protestants , and by the protestants against the papists . wherein the true ground and reason of making the laws is given , the papists most barbarous usage of the protestants here in england , under a colour of law , set forth ; and the reformation vindicated from the imputation of being cruel and bloody , unjustly cast upon it by those of the romish communion . by samuel blackerby , barrister of grays-inn . fol. a modest enquiry , whether st. peter were ever at rome , and bishop of that church ? wherein , i. the arguments of cardinal bellarmine and others , for the affirmative , are considered . ii. some considerations taken notice of , that render the negative highly probable . quarto . the spirit of france , and the politick maxims of lewis xiv . laid open to the world. quarto . memorials of the method and manner of proceedings in parliament in passing bills : together with several rules and customs , which by long and constant practice have obtained the name of orders of the house . gathered by observation , and out of the journal-books , from the time of edward vi. octavo . dr. burnet's tracts in two volumes . vol. i. containing , . his travels into switzerland , italy and germany ; with an appendix . . animadversions on the reflections upon the travels . . three letters of the quietists , inquisition , and state of italy . vol. ii. . his translations of lactantius of the death of persecutors . . his answers to mr. varillas : in three parts . twelves . a collection of texts of scripture , with short notes upon them and some other observations against the principal popish errors . twelves . the fallibility of the roman church , demonstrated from the manifest error of the second nicene and trent councils , which assert , that the veneration and honorary worship of images , is a tradition primitive and apostolical . quarto . a demonstration that the church of rome , and her councils , have erred ; by shewing , that the councils of constance , basil , and trent , have , in all their decrees touching communion in one kind , contradicted the received doctrine of the church of christ : with an appendix , in answer to the xxi . chapter of the author of a papist misrepresented , and represented . quarto . a treatise of traditions , part i. wherein it is proved , that we have evidence sufficient from tradition ; . that the scriptures are the word of god. . that the church of england owns the true canon of the books of the old testament . . that the copies of the scripture have not been corrupted . . that the romanists have no such evidence for their traditions . . that the testimony of the present church of rome can be no sure evidence of apostolical tradition . . what traditions may securely be relied upon , and what not . quarto . a treatise of traditions , part ii. shewing the novelty of the pretended traditions of the church of rome ; as being , . not mentioned by the ancients of their discourses of traditions apostolical , truly so called , or so esteemed by them . nor , . in their avowed rule , or symbol of faith. nor , . in the instructions given to the clergy , concerning all those things they were to teach the people . nor , . in the examination of a bishop at his ordination . nor , . in the ancient treatises designed to instruct christians in all the articles of their faith. . from the confessions of romish doctors : with an answer to the arguments of mr. mumford for traditions ; and a demonstration , that the heathens made the same plea from tradition as the romanists do ; and that the answer of the fathers to it doth fully justifie the protestants . quarto . all these four books written by the reverend d. whitby , d. d. an exhortation to charity ( and a word of comfort ) to the irish protestants : being a sermon preached at steeple in dorsetshire , upon occasion of the collection for relief of the poor protestants in this kingdom , lately fled from ireland : by samuel bold , rector of steeple . quarto . foxes and firebrands , or a specimen of the danger and harmony of popery and separation , first , second , and third parts . sir w. temple's observation on holland . — miscellanea . mr. selden's table-talk , or discourses on various subjects . a list of the present parliament , lords and commons , present case stated about allegiance to king william and queen mary . debates of the late oxford and westminster parliament . monsieur ierew's accomplishment . octavo . scripture-prophesies , compleat : in vol. octavo . a new system of the revelations . twelves . voyages of syam . octavo . obedience due to the present king , notwithstanding our oaths to the former : by a divine of the church of england . the late lord russell's case , with observations upon it . writ by the right honourable henry lord delamere . fol. considerations humbly offered for taking the oath of allegiance to king william and queen mary . quarto . mr. masters of submission to divine providence . dr. worthington of the resurrection . octavo . an answer to bishop lake's ( late of chichester ) declaration of his dying in belief of the doctrine of passive obedience , &c. dr. carsael's assize-sermon at abingdon , aug . . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e luk. . . tim. . . luke . . rom. . gal. . matth. . . exod. . , . deut. . cor. . , . a censure of that reverend and learned man of god, mr. john cotton, lately of new-england, upon the way of mr. henden of bennenden in kent, expressed in some animadversions of his upon a letter of mr. henden's sometimes sent to mr. elmeston ( ) a brief and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion, by a reverend and learned minister, mr. geo[r]ge petter ... ( ) mr. henden's animadversions on mr. elmestons's epistle revised and chastized. elmeston, john. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing c ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a censure of that reverend and learned man of god, mr. john cotton, lately of new-england, upon the way of mr. henden of bennenden in kent, expressed in some animadversions of his upon a letter of mr. henden's sometimes sent to mr. elmeston ( ) a brief and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion, by a reverend and learned minister, mr. geo[r]ge petter ... ( ) mr. henden's animadversions on mr. elmestons's epistle revised and chastized. elmeston, john. cotton, john, - . censure ... upon the way of mr. henden. petter, george. brief and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion. [ ], p. printed by j.g. for john stafford ..., london : . comprises: mr. hendons animadversions on mr. elmestons epistle / j. elmeston (p. - ); a briefe and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion / george petter (p. - ); mr. john cotton's letter to mr. elmeston (p. ); my letter to mr. henden, when as i sent him a copy of mr. cotton's animadversions / j. elmeston (p. ); certaine errors noted in the letter sent to you [j. elmeston] from a christian friend whereof you desired my judgement [being the "censure of ... mr. john cotton"] / s. henden (p. - [i.e. ]). mr. cottons letter to mr. elmeston, upon his writing back to thank him for this labour of love in imparting unto me [j. elmeston] his judgment upon mr. hendens letter, and my signifying the slight account that mr. henden made thereof (p. [i.e. ]- ). reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng henden, simon. -- key of scripture-prophecies. freedom of religion. a r (wing c ). civilwar no a censure of that reverend and learned man of god mr. john cotton, lately of new-england, upon the way of mr. henden of bennenden in kent, e cotton, john f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a censure of that reverend and learned man of god mr. john cotton , lately of new-england , upon the way of mr. henden of bennenden in kent , expressed in some animadversions of his upon a letter of mr. henden's , sometimes sent to mr. elmeston . . a brief and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion , by a reverend and learned minister , mr. geoge petter , lately of bread in sussex . . mr. henden's animadversions on mr. elmestons's epistle revised and chastized . london , printed by j. g. for john stafford , at the signe of the george neer fleet bridge . . mr. hendons animadversions on mr. elmestons epistle , revised and chastised . i will say little to your preface , but leave it to the discreet , judicious , and godly reader , to examine and censure as he findes cause . onely i desir● that the reader may know , that it is but your vain surmise , that my other answer to your letter ( as you intimate in the beginning of your preface , and hint elsewhere in your book ) was the joynt-labour of sund●y neighbor-ministers concurring with me . touching which i can truly say , that not any of them , no not the neer●st to me knew much of it , i am sure saw not a line of it , untill i had sent a copy of it to your selfe . so farre were they from contributing their midwifry to the birth of it . there was but unum ad unum , according to the * proverb . but this is the over-weening confidence that you have of your selfe , that l●k●miles gloriosus , the braggadosia souldier in plautus , you think me too weak a man to grapple with you : and indeed i boast not of my abilities . what i am , i am by the grace of god alone , whom also i thank for that small mite of learning , humane or divine , that i have . but as st. augustine saith , so say i , ego parvas vires habeo , sed dei verbum magnas habet ; i have but small strength : but the word of god and the truth have great power . and as the learned doctor reynolds , bonam causam vel infans sustineat , mala vix cicero patronus sufficiat . a very babe may uphold a good cause , but cicero himselfe is fearce a sufficient patron for a bad . it savours of the like arrogant spirit , that you would have my answer to you come forth in the name , and with the united forces of all our ministers . what is this but some spice of goliah's termagant spirit , who did defie the whole host of israel ? and more than an herculean courage , of whom the proverb is , nè hercules quidem contra duos , hercules himselfe would not take on him to deal● with two . methinks i heare from you the brags of that flattering parasit● to his braggadosi● master , that he , hostium legiones difflavit spiritu quasi ventus folia , that he had blown away legions of enemies with a blast , as the wind doth leaves . it may be for all this your boasting you may have your hands full of one ere we have done , as the braggadosia dares in the poet , had of aged eutellus , who upon encounter with that aged worthy , notwithstanding his insolent boast and challenge , was faine to yeild him up the bucklers upon aeneas timely advice , who saw it like else to go ill with him saying , nonne alias vires , conversaque numina sentis ? cede deo. — do'st thou not feale a strength above thine own , and god against thee ? vnto god sit down . but leaving further to meddle with your preface , i passe to your animadversions , where you tell me , that my epistle comes galloping in , &c. whereto i say , that i was never noted among my neigbours for a galloper , but one that usually rode a sober pace : the more unlikely is it that i should turne galloper in my age , or that my epistle should come galloping in , and that upon a wooden horse , who could not sure be very free of motion , but as he was drawne by others strength . but howsoever thus you j●●re at this not wooden story , as you scoff , but a pleasant poeticall fiction , yet the application of it to your opinion and practise , about an universall toleration in religion , doth so fully meet with you therein , that it makes you kick and lash like a jade nettled in the breech . it is a vile and lewd perverting of my words & meaning , to say ( as you doe ) that liberty granted to tender consciences in religion , is by me compared to this trojan horse : for i speak plainly of an universall toleration of all wayes and consciences in religion , and that not as established and owned by the state ( as some did calumniate me ) ( for i knew , and know that there was an act made against ranterisme , that they had declared themselves against arrians in condemning mr. fry his book ; and against socinians in ordering the cracovian catechisme to be burnt , for which their zeal for christ and his truth , i blesse the lord , and wish , that from all gods people they may have their deserved honour ) but i mentioned it onely as a thing pleaded for , taken up by the head-strong practise of too many , which is sadly evident to the world . and is there no difference between such a vast toleration , and a just liberty granted unto tender consciences ? if men will be blasphemou●mahumetans , execrable arrians , and socinians , idolatrous papists , grosse arminians , wretched soule-mortalists , fantastick seekers , &c. are these to be tolerated as men of tender consciences in religion ? such onely have been counted men of tender consciences in religion , whose mistakes have been in matters indifferent , or at least in points not fundamentall , of an inferiour allay , carrying themselves in an humble and peaceable way , and not strugling to make parties and rents in the church ; with whom much patience is to had , and to whom due liberty is to be granted . but surely such as erre in matters fundamentall , or next to the foundation , and pertinaciously persist therein , after due paines taken with them , to informe them in the truth , and convince them of their errour , yea , and also openly professe , and spread them abroad to seduce others , are far from men of tender consciences , unlesse drunkards , adulterers , railers , &c. be so also , with whom hereticks are coupled , gal. . . tender consciences and true grace may meet in one subject , and none indeed are truly of tender conscience , but such as are truly gracious . but what spark of saving grace can be in such , whose mindes and consciences are possessed and corrupted with damnable errors and heresies , as peter calls them ? it is but censorious ignorance which you manifest in taxing me for the use of this poeticall fiction of the trojan horse ; nor is it utterly unsuitable to the majesty of divinity ( though in this my epistle i treat of no speciall point of divinity ) especial●y in controversall writings to make use of poeticall fictions , or poetry , when as the apostle in his preaching and writing , did think the speeches of heathen poets suitable enough to his most serious d●vinity , as appeares acts . . cor. . . tit. . . where he doth alledge them : and say that this is but a fiction , yet is is a rule among logicians , that feigned ex●mples and similitudes serve to illustrat● as well as tru● , ficta similitudo parem vim habet veris , a feigned sim●litude is of like force with the true ; exemplorum , saith another , non est exquirenda veritas , sed solum rei propositae declaratio aut convenientia . the truth of examples is not to be looked to , but only the declaration of the matter propunded & their fitnesse for it . it is also but a poor soarling to carp at a wor● , that upon mention of this poeticall fiction , i call , by way of allusion , our church our troy : sure i am that it is an expression which a thrice noble authour , for b●rth , honour , learning and piety , thought it not unfit to use , namely , philip mornee , lord of plessis ; at whom to carp would sooner bewray much audacious folly in you , than any whit asperse his wisdome and gravity . and touching your farther descant upon this name , it is a wild and rovi●g conceit , that rome was built by any roving trojans , when there were more than four hundered years between aeneas coming into italy with his trojans , and the building of rome by romulus and remus ; when the wandering of the trojans was ceased , yea their name lost , and extinguished , though some of the race might remain though swallowed up by other nations , and under other n●mes . . wher● and by whom rome is called a second troy , if you had shewed , i should have been beholding to you for that piece of philology : for i confesse ingenuously , it is not within the compasse of my memory . . it is a wrong to ou● church in england ( now as it is ) to call it hierarch●call , when it was of that frame , the good party groaned under such lords as an heavy burthen , and it hath now clean cast them off , and changed its face and form into a church ministeriall ; your petty separation comes neerer to an anarchy , than our church-state to an hierarchy . last , it is a wonder you tell us of , viz. of a christian church ar●sing out of the ashes of a pagan city . the proverb is , e. squilla non nascitur rosa , the sweet rose growes not out of the strong sented sea-onion , much more unlikely it is that a city of god should arise out of a palace of sathan : you love , if not all devou●ing words , as the prophet speaks , psal. . . yet all biting words . but if you mean ( as some speak ) of a noble trojan , brutus arriving in england , that english-men are descended of old of the troj●n b●ood , that hath been counted the honour of the nation , or if any blemish be in it , it reflecteth on you , yours , and your company , as much as upon us or any other . concerning troy's dis●olution , i speak not of the metitorious cause that did procure it , which was ( as you say ) their retaining of that strumpet helena , but of the active cause , which by fire and sword did lay it wast , which were the graecian captains hidden in that horse , and the other g●aecian army joyning with them . and for a●y such accu●s●d thing to be found amongst us , we are as free by gods grace , and so shall be , and far from any such spirituall h●rlotry , as you are in this your censure of u● from christian charity . but whatsoever be amongst us , i see not but that you allow , and would bring in amongst us as provoking , and evill , and a more filthy harlot , than was helena , viz , an universall toleration for all religions . for helena , though she lewdly forsook her husband menelaus , and ran away with paris , yet as long as she lived she was faire and honest toward him . but this harlot-toleration doth allow men liberty to commit spirituall fornication , with any false religion , and at pleasure to give a bill of divorce to the old , and take up a new . that liberty ( which i yoak , you say , most unfitly to the trojan wooden horse ) what is it but an universall toleration for all wayes and consciences in religion ? which liberty ( say you ) is a precious jewell , bought for men by the invaluable ransome of jesus chris● . in which words i doubt you are little aware what you say . what hath christ shed his blood , that men might have liberty to deny his d●ity , to reproach the scriptures , to be arrian● , socinians , papist● , and to be what they please in point and profession of religion ? i trust you abhorre to affirme such thing● . and yet such horrid consequences must needs ensue thereupon , if the liberty , which i so comp●re , be the jewell so purchased , since i manifestly speak it , and that onely of such an universall and generall toleration . and such as will so say , may as well say , that christ hath shed his precious blood to procure men a liberty to whore , swear , and be drunk , as to be of what way in religion they please . grosse wayes in false religion , and foule errors and heresies , do tend as much to the dishonour of christ , and damnation of mens soules , as such foule and grosse sins . it is true what you adde , that by christ we are redeemed from vaine traditions and humane thraldome , to be a free and willing people in christs service . but such a liberty comes farre short of that vast liberty , to be of what religion we please , and to be tolerated therein without any controll from the magistrate . you spightfully and falsely charge me , as defaming our noble patriots about their honourable endeavours , and prosperous success● in preventing the over-flowing of popery , promoting the gospel , repressing tyranny , or procuring us any just liberty in the state or religion : for the which i blesse the lord , and honour them according to their most worthy deserts . but such a vast and wide liberty ( as i speak of , and you also must mean , if you answer to the point ) viz. a toleration for all wayes and consciences in religion , as christ never purchased for us , so cannot i acknowledge , that the state doth allow it , however sundry plead for it , and usurp it . and therefore you do more reproachfully defame them , to make them patrons of such a wicked liberty , than i , who deny them to be so . but whether it be usurped onely , or whether it should be established ( which god forbid i should ) i would never write upon such a liberty , or the procuring of it , as you say i ought . this is the finger of god . that can never be the work of god● finger , which is contrary to the word of his mouth . i do● not complain of such a toleration , as in particular destructive unto us , but as to the welfare of the gospel and church in the whole land ; which sad effect it would as manifestly tend unto , as a generall pestilence , in which infected persons were permitted to walk abroad among the sound , to the destroying the health of a nation , and making the disease the more generall and mortall among them . in which estate of religion , though we have , and might have , more liberty than heretofore under the prelates , and were to be thankfull to god and man for our liberty to serve god in his own way . yet no good christian but must needs take it to heart , to the great abatement of his comfort , to see as much liberty granted to errour , heresie , idolatry , &c. as to christ's owne saving truth , and that such abominations to christs open dishonour , and the damnation of soules should have free course and passage . i know not well what you mean by a worldly power , whose prop our church should need . the civill power of the magistrate , especially in a christian , is unfitly so nick-named : for it is an ordinance of god , and no● meerely of the world , and ought to be imployed for god : it may degenerate into a meere worldly power , in the hands of pagan and prophane persons , when it is exercised onely about worldly matters , with a neglect of religion , yea perhaps against christ and true religion . but if by it you mean the civill power , i doubt not but that our church , as a true church of christ , can stand without that prop. but this withall i give you to know , that even christs true church and religion , though it can stand without such worldly support , doth yet the more flourish , spread and lift up its head● when the civill magistrate doth undertake the protection , and doth countenance it not onely against persecution , but also against contrary schisms , heresi●s , and idolatry . it was some benefit which the lord did mean the church should enjoy by the civill power , when he did promise that kings should be nursing fathers , and queen●nursing mothers thereunto . where let it be noted , that the promise is made unto the church , and not to all wayes in religion , though hereticall and idolatrous , as if they should have equell protection and countenance from kings , queenes , and supreme magistrates with the church . and what benefit the church hath by the protection and support of the magistrate , as our england may sufficiently witnesse , where religion did more flourish in the free and open worship of god , and the number of professions of religion under the reigne of edward the sixt , blessed queen elizabeth &c. the one whereof was even in his younger dayes a nursing father , the other all her dayes a nursing mother to the church ; then in the dayes of queen mary , a cruell s●e p●dame and persecutor thereof . so if we take a survey of states abroad , certainly we shall perceive that the church and religion doth prosper better in geneva and its territory and among the helevetian protestants , where one way of true religion is mainteined , than in polonia , such states wherein this mingle-mangle is tolerated . next , you would have me remember , that the primitive was built not by power , but by the spirit , that by the spirit christ went forth conquering ; that the stone dashing , all opposers was cut out of the mountaine without hands ; that gods people are a willing people , and never act nobly but out of a principle of love . all this i doe desi●e to remember . but what is all this to prove an universall toleration of all wayes and consciences in religion , which was the thing i insisted on as the main root of much mischief amongst us ? what ? cannot the church be built , nor christ conquer by the spirit , nor daniels stone be cut out of the mountaine without hands , nor gods people be a willing people , nor act out of love , unlesse such an universall toleration be allowed , and it be left as free for men to be atheists , mahumetans . arrians , pap●sts , hereticks , and sectaries of any kinde , as well as to be true , sound , and orthodox christians ? this is a mystery you had need to open to us , how such a toleration doth conduce any whit to make the gospel the more powerfull in converting , or gods people the more free and willing in believing and pro●essing . but it seemes you muster up these forces against all coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion . but first , there was no need to fall upon this controve●sie , if your intent were onely to plead for some due liberty for tender consciences , that dissent in lesser matters , and that in a modest , meek , and peaceable way , which i did not gainsay , who onely bent my speech against this miscreant and universall toleration . . if you intend to argue against all such coercive power here is committed by you ignorated elenchi , you argue not against the question as it ought to be stated , which perhaps you conceale , that your arguing may be the more plausible among your d●sciples , and other simple and well-meaning readers , but such as doe not well understand the state of this controversie . for you know which you should have let your reader know ( which one thing understood , would have cut the sinews of most of your reasons hudled together about this in your preface ) that we do not say , that the m●gistrate hath power to comp●ll any man to believe the gospell , or to comp●ll such as are strangers from the faith , to take up the profession of it . but we affirm , . that the magistrate may and ought to prohibite his subjects now in the dayes of the gospel , the open exercise of impious and idolatrous worship , the open profession of ungodly errors and heresies , yes , also of rash and uncharitable rent● from the true church in his dominion , and the open neglect and prophaning of the lords day . . it is in his power , and it becometh him to command them , yea , even such as be strangers from the faith , to attend that worship of god which is naturally morall , as to hear the word read and preached , that they may be convinced of their false religion , instructed in the true faith , and converted to it by the lords blessing coming in upon their hearing , and others outwardly professing the faith , might be confirmed in it , and converted in the inner man to a reall and powerfull profession of it ; and also to joyn in prayer and praising god . it doth not impeach this assertion , that david did not cause the edomites , moabites , and other idolatrou● nations , conquered by him , to renounce their idolatrous worship , but did suffer them in it ; nor did send any to teach them god● law , or constraine them to attend it . the lord in those dayes had confined his worship and covenant of salvation onely to the people of the jewes , and would not have it made common generally to other nations , except to some few proselytes that came in , but had shut them out from this covenant ; wherefore david was not obliged to any such c●re of them , nor had any warrant to send any to teach them gods lawes and wayes : but now under the gospel there it no such r●●●raint ; but as god would have all men to repent , and his grace is free for all nations : so supreme magistrates , had they any heathen under their power , they were so as above to exercise their power , to put down their idolatry , and bring them to gods worship . but this is to be taken in by the way , that meer force is not to be used , but instruction and teaching to informe in the truth , and to perswade the will ought to go along with power , that they be not driven as beasts , but led fairly along , as men of reason and understanding . . for such subjects as have been baptized into the faith of christ , and so have given themselves to the profession of it , the magistrate may and ought to provide against their renouncing of the faith , and falling to heresie and idolatry , and for their submitting to meanes of being further taught and built up in it , and holding forth the profession of it , as otherwise , so especially in frequenting the worsh●p of god . last , the magistrate may and ought , by his authority , not onely give way to the profession of the true religion , and some way to countenance it , but is bound to provide that gods word be preached by faithfull and able ministers , that they be encouraged and well maintained , and to command the practice of gods worship in all points by gods people : now your scriptures make not against this assertion thus explained : for they chiefly intend the inward conversion , and work of grace in the heart , which is onely the work of the spirit , and to which the civil power cannot reach ; nor doe we allow him to meddle with it , as if by his lawes he could work it . they concern not these outward actions mentioned , which may be reached and regulated by the civill power . and though inward conversion be the sole work of the spirit , yet doth it not exclude the use of outward meanes , which do either more directly conduce or occasionally make some way for that work . . it doth not exclude the preaching , hearing , or other use of gods word , by which the spirit worketh faith and other saving graces in men : nor , . doth it exclude the exercise of church-censures , which availe to keep men in the faith , and an holy conversation : nor , . the command of the m●gistrate ( so far as hath been said ) to restraine men from idolatry and heresie , which cannot but hinder the work of true conversion , and to command the attendance on the word preached , and other meanes of instruction , whereby men may be brought under the shadow of the holy ghost , that he may work on them . but to touch upon your scriptures more particularly ; for that of zeeharie , i shall desire the reader to wait for the clearing of it , untill i come to a passage in your book following , where it is againe alledged , and will be more fitly examined : to that of rev. . . it is but your single conceit ( as you affect to be an odde man by your selfe ) that by the white horse whereon christ is said there to ride forth conquering , or the bow in his hand is meant of the spirit : it is an expression not to be parallel'd , and sense not well sounding , to say , that christ doth ride on the spirit , or carry the spirit in his hand : it is the more generall and genuine sense to understand it of the preaching of the gospel , according to that of psal . where christ it bid to ride forth , verse . as on an horse , which is there expounded his truth , and furnished with sharp arrows , verse . to pierce the heart of his enemies . now the preaching of the word doth carry forth christ , as it were , on horseback , in the view of men , and out of it , as a bow in his hand , doth he shoot his divine doctrine , promises , and threats which pierce to the heart of men ; and by it he did , and doth conquer the world . the preaching of the gospel hath its ●fficacy indeed from the spirit going forth with it ; which conquering power of the preaching of the gospel , and of the spirit the command of the magistrate , as above declared , doth no way hinder , but promote rather , as tending to bring men within the rode of that white horse , that they may be conquered by his rider , and brought to his obedience , and within the reach of his bow , that his arrowes may pierch their hearts with godly sorrow for sin , and make them fall downe unto christ . subordinata non pugnant , saith the logician , things subordinate fight not one with another , but are subservient one to the other . for the stone cut out of the mountain without hands , dan. . . it doth indeed typifie christ and the church his kingdome . and as he , concerning his humane nature , was framed in the womb of the virgin mary , without any procreation from man , and set up as king of the church by god alone , without mans concurrence , so his church and kingdome was first set up by gods onely power and authority , and not by that of man ; but so that outward means were and are a●so used by him , and all is not done by the immediate power of god , without any use of meanes , as at first the world was created by him . for there are ministers employed to preach the gospell , magistrates set on work to countenance and defend it , and by their authority to set it up in their countreys , professours raised up to hold it forth in their lives , to suffer for it ; bu● these means are so used by the lord , that the whole work and successe of it appears to be from gods power and blessing alone , not at all from man , as hereafter i shall more largely shew , and so is cut out , as it were without hands . it is manifest , that in the overthrow of those mighty monarchies figured and set out , dan. . the lord did use the power of the sword and armies ; and i believe that you think that christ this stone doth so now , and will doe the like in dashing to pieces all the mighty opposers of his kingdome . and therefore all things that are done toward the advancement of this kingdome , are not wholly done without hands or externall meanes : and why then may not christ also use some hands or externall meanes , in some things that more directly tend to the setting up and maintaining his church and kingdom ? whose successe and efficacy yet is not from themselves , but wholly from christs power and spirit , and so effected , as it were , without hands . for psal. . . and . . which say , that gods people must be a willing people ; and cor. . . that they act not nobly , unlesse out of love . how doth the command of the magistrate , as it is above laid downe , hinder them in gods service to be a willing people , or to act out of love ? for if they command good and lawfull things , the command doth not hinder their willingnesse in the doing of them , but encourage them in it , as knowing that they shall do them with praise and approbation . if they restraine them by their command from evill things , men ought not at any time to be willing to doe evill , but rather should willingly be restrained from it . and it is better that against their will they be restrained from evill , than that they be permitted willingly to rush into it . it is also an antinomian misconceit to think that nothing is done willingly , and out of love to god , which is done out of obedience and respect to a commandement enjoyning or prohibiting it . . gods people were to be a willing people in his service , and to act out of love under the law also as well as the gospel . for there must be a willing mind● and working out of love before any thing will be accepted : and yet abraham is commended , that he would not onely exhort and perswade , but out of his authourity command his houshold to feare god ; and asa likewise , that he commanded judah to seek the lord god , and to doe the law , &c. which course of theirs , had it hindred the willingnesse of those that were commanded in gods service , or their acting out of love , it may seem strange that those so godly persons should pract●ce it , stranger that it is recorded to the praise of both . . it is as much required that men should be willing to abstain from foule sins against the second table , and to doe the good duties of it , and that herein they should act out of love ; about which yet you allow the magistrate to make lawes to r●straine men from murder , fornication , theft &c. and to cause them to be sober , honest , and just . and how then doth this willingnesse , and acting out of love , hinder mag●strates from making meet lawes in matters of religion ? last , nothing can be spoken more punctually than that of the apostle , concerning servants , that what they doe in the masters service , they should doe it heartily and willingly . notwi●hstanding , surely you will grant masters that authority over servants , as to lay their command upon them , to doe them just service , and to punish the neglect of it . willingnesse to doe good , and acting out of love , is nothing hindred , but may be promoted by the command of authority . it is true , that if a thing be done onely out of obedience and respect to mans command , it wants its acceptance with god , but it is good in it selfe ; and though an humane command may give some occasion to the doing of it ; yet a godly person will doe it also , yea , and more out of the love of god , and to shew his ready obedience to him . but here we have a criticisme cast in by the way , viz. that the hebrew text carries it to signifie voluntaries , as well as willing people , as if , forsooth , there were some great and observable difference between these two words ; when the one is but our common english word , the other coyned out of the latine , and are both the same in sense and signification . next , we have a silly cavil about the errors named , as coming out of the womb of an univers●ll toleration . nay , say you , they were long extant before such a toleration was granted , and so that could not be a womb to breed and bring them forth . answ. . it is more than we know that such a toleration is yet granted : if it be , shew us the act for it . it is and hath been indeed long pleaded for , and practised . . for those errours and heresies , i speak not of their first rising , which was heretofore in forraigne parts , and those perhaps where too much way was given for such a toleration ; but of their int●uding , spreading and multiplying in ou● land . concerning which , if we look back unto the writings and practises of some later yeares , it will appeare , that if the one were not extant before the other , that yet like two bad weeds , they grew up together , and that this toleration , did if not give them their first birth , yet conferre much to their growth and enlargement . what then becomes of that clamour that i have here non-pluss'd all logicians , as denying the cause to precede the effect , and am one unworthy to be disputed with , is denying the maine principles of reason ? good words , i pray you , be not so eager , but let me in cold blood argue the matter with you . if i were palpably mistaken in the rise and beginning of these things ( which you have not proved , but barely ●ffi●med ) the mistake were onely in my calculating the time of their nativity , not in my denying that logicall axiome , causa est prior effectu : if this axiome were alledged to confut● me , i should as readily receive the axiome as you ; onely the question would be which of these were the cause , which the effect , and which was before the other , whether that toleration , or these errors and heresies in nature and time : i may here then return you some of your own language , that my intellectualls ( as you jeere ) were not so much disturbed with any heat of passion against s●ctaries , as your braines were taken with the whirligig out of your eager humour to carp and snarle : what followes is more serious . if errours arise ( say you ) not carnall but spirituall weapons must beat them down . answ. i grant that spirituall weapons , as preaching , conference , church-censures and prayer , are the most proper and effectuall for this work , as more directly tending to informe in the truth , convince of error , and perswade mens hearts and minds , and such are first and most to be used in this case . but by your leave no these onely : spiritual weapons must be used against sinnes against the second table , as preaching , admonition , church-censures to convines men thereof , to restrain them and bring them to repentance . but if these aloue should be used , such sins and sinners would not so fully and effectually be repressed , as when withall civill lawes are made against them , and such punishments prepared for them : so here spirituall weapons alone may be too weak to beat downe errors and heresies , and keep them from breaking out , and spreading abroad . but if with these spirituall weapons the carnall ( as you in some scorne call them ) viz. the prohibition of the magistrate , and some moderate punishment be added , they will doe good , as otherwise , so to make erroneous persons the more seriously to consider of their wayes , whether they be right or wrong , and the more ready to receive the truth manifested to them , which otherwise out of pride and selfe-conceit they will reject : it is too well known that most erroneous persons are of the nature of the servant solomon speaketh of , who will not be corrected with words , though he understand well enough his masters minde ; yet upon b●re words he will not answer , nor be brought unto his duty ; so is it with these persons for the most , let them be never so fully convinced , let the truth be never so clearly manifested to them , so that they cannot put it off but with grosse shifts ; yet for all words and spiritual weapons , they will not yeild to it , but of haughtinesse of spirit persisi in their errors , and be oft more pertinatious and turbulent in their way . errors and offences you say must come according to the scripture , to manifest the approved , and to make truth's victory the more glorious . answ. if they must be , and that by gods permission , &c. must they therefore be suffered to go on without controll or contradiction ? if so , it is not lawfull to oppose them with spirituall weapons , viz. freaching , writing , conference , church censure , &c. for in so doing we shall goe against gods providence and permission , who will have them to be , and that for good ends ; and it is in vaine to think thereby to represse them , since they must needs be . this permission then , and necessity of them , doth no more exclude the use of the civill power to restraine them , than of spirituall meanes : and if , notwithstanding the same , there be place l●ft for the spirituall weapons to represse them , there m●y be also place for the civill power in right order and manner against them . but what are these offences that christ saith must needs be ? they are not onely errors , heresies , and false religions , but also other foule sins against the second table , as murders , whoredomes , theft , &c. which as is the corruption of mans nature , and the streng●h of sathans and the worlds temptations cannot be avoided , but doe break forth , and must needes doe so , and that not without gods permission . what then ? must there be a free toleration of these iniquities ? or must spirituall weapons onely be used against them to represse them ? we should then surely have a woful world to live in , which is now too too bad notwithstanding all good laws against them : and if notwithstanding this necessity and gods permission , magistrates may , yea ought ( as herein i presume you will concurre with us ) to make lawes against such enormities , and infl●ct civill punishments on them , the like necessity and permission of heresies and errou●s in religion , is no sufficient reason against the use of the civill power by lawes and punishments to oppose them . there is no more force in such a reason than because it is appointed for all men to die once , and so men must needs die , some should argue , that therefore it were not lawfull , or at least it were in vaine to prescribe rules to preserve health and life , yea to make lawes against murdering men . for might some say , to what purpose serves such adoe ? men must needs die , and all these rules and lawes will not prevent their death . nor will the ends for which errors and heresies must come , viz. to manifest the approved , and make truths victory the more notable , conclude for a free toleration of them . for if in that respect they must be l●● goe free without controll of the mag●strate , neither should they be opposed or suppressed by sp●rituall meanes , as which in the restraint of them would hinder the manifestation of the approved , and obscure the victory of truth . besides , as other foule offences against the second table fall out by divine permission , so are they permitted amongst other , even for such ends as errors and offences in religion are , viz. to manifest such the more as are just , sober , chast and innocent , upon grounds of good conscience , and to make their righteousness● and innocency the more conspicuous . and if all such wickednesse were left free without feare of humans punishment , doubtlesse in the midst of such a wicked liberty , the righteousnesse , innocency , and honest conversation of those who did live justly and honestly , would be the more eminent and notable . if there were no punishment for whoredome , theft , d●unkennesse , &c. it would make the chastity , sobriety , and justice , of such as kept themselves from those and such like vices , the more famous and praise-worthy . what you say of the mystery of godlinesse , that it rayes out with the most perfect beauty by the cleere discovery of the deepest mystery of in●quity , may be as truly said , that in such a bad state of things , if it should be , the splendour of true vertue and innocency would ●ay forth with most perfect beauty , by the discovery of the foulest practise of reigning iniquity . the more freedome there was in sodom for all filthinesse and wickednesse , the more did lot's righteousnesse and innocency appeare . but yet , woe to those m●gistates , that in their dominions should suffer all wickednesse of that sort to goe unpunished , and not restrain it by just and severe lawes , that forsooth the honesty and righteousnesse of men truly good ▪ might be the better tried , and the more manifest . and truly magistrates will never have comfort in granting a free course to errours , heresies , and all wayes in religion , in their respective countreys , upon such pretences , that the found in the faith may be the more manifest , and truths conqu●st the more glorious . and here i think it not amisse to insert this observation , 〈◊〉 upon search it will be found , that errors and heresies did a●●se more easily , spread more swiftly , continue longer in the first three centuries after christ , where the church wanted the authority of the civill magistrate to put them down , then afterward when the emperours had intertained the christian faith , in whose times they arose not so often , and were much sooner stayed and repressed by the edicts and lawes of emperours , that were found in the faith , and did oppose them . this may ●ppeare by dauaeus his second table upon augustine , de haeresibus , where he sheweth what heresies did arise in every c●ntury , of which the three first centuries were most fertile , where are reckoned up more than sixty severall heresies ; the other next three centuries afford not many above forty , and the most of them did arise and flourish under prophane and hereticall emperours . obj. truth in a free passage may come in , as well as heresie . answ. . but truth surely will come in more freely , where the passage is stopped against error and heresie . , in such a free passage error and heresie in all likelihood would most prevaile , as being more suitable to our corrupt nature : mala herba citò crescit , a bad weed growes apace . and naughty weedes will over-run a garden sooner , if they be not plucked up , than good herbs and flowers replenish and adorne it . . this makes no more agai●st the use of the civill power , to represse them , than of spirituall meanes , and church power . for if truth in such liberty may come in , as well as heresie , why should there any opposition be made against heresie by spiritual weapons ? and why should not every way as free a liberty be left for one , as for the other ? . it may as well be alledged against all civill lawes to repress any other wickednesse : for why should anysuch lawes be made , when in a free liberty for men to live as they list , righteousnesse and vertue may come in , as well as unrighteousnesse , or any other kinde of vice ? obj. christ is as potent to ' prevaile in light , as the prince of darknesse in delusions . answ. must we therefore depend upon christs immediate and almighty power , and working without use of means for the spreading truth , and restraining heresies ? may we nht as well say ▪ why should there be any preaching , any writing , any praying or disputing against heresies ? christ is potent without such means to prevaile in light . nay , may we not also say , why should any lawes be made against murder , whoredome , theft , slandering , &c. for god is as potent to maintaine righteousnesse , peace , chastity and truth , &c. in such a liberty , as satan is to work unrighteousnesse , uncleannesse , envy , lying , &c. but if it cannot be expected that christ should put forth his power to maintaine such vertues , where there is such a neglect of meanes , as that no good lawes are made against the foulest vices , so surely it may be feared that satan will there more prevail with his delusions in religion , than christ shew himself powerfull in maintaining truth , where no good lawes are in force to represse heresies or to uphold divine truth . obj. truth may thus be shut out , and compulsion hath proved a direct enemy to the gospel . answ. it is true : and so hath preaching , writing , and church . censures , helped to shut out tru●h , and been made direct enemies to the gospel . but that hath been not in the right use of them , by preaching and writing for truth , and just censuring scandalous and erroneous persons , but by the abuse of them in turning them against the truth and professours of it . and if this co●rciv● power ( which in harsh language you delight to call compulsion ) exercised in matters of religion , have obstructed truth , and been an adversary to the gospel , that mischief hath not sprung from the nature of the power which is good and lawfull , but from the abuse of it by seduced and ill affected magistrates , who have misimployed it . and it is a grosse paralogisme , from the abuse of any thing , to blemish or extinguish the right use of it . and if you would clear your eyes , and look abroad , you may see that it hath oft helped to maintain truth , and prop●gate the gospel , witnesse the godly kings of judah , who did thereby put down idolatry in their land , and bring their people back to the true worship of god . witnesse the first christian emperours , who by it banished pagan idolatry , and promoted christian religion . witnesse protestant princes of late in england , and other countreys , who by it suppressed popish idolatry , and set up the preaching of the gospel , and countenanced the profession of it . last , compulsion of the civil power hath oft been an instrument of tyranny , and exercised to hinder justice and righteousnesse , as solomon sheweth ▪ and yet indeed it is not so easily and oft used against justice , and other ●uties of the second table , as it is against the gospel ; for that there be more principles of civil righteousnesse , and care of preserving peace and mans outward welfare , left in mans nature to direct thereto , and check unrighteousnesse , than of divine truth in religion , of which there are left but some generall notions , that there is a god , and that he is to be worshipped ; but nothing by any such principles doe they know of the particular manner of his worship , much lesse any thing of the gospel . and if notwithstanding this abuse of civil power , or compulsion against righteousnesse and tra● quility , commanded in the second table , it have its right use , and that to b● a low●d about civil matters of that table , there may be a right and lawfull use of it in matters of religion , though by the abuse thereof , it shut out truth , and be oft an enemy to the gospell . obj. to what way doe you so eagerly labour to engage the sword of the magistrate ? to your own or to some other ? answ. this is nothing but the sp●tting of your rancour : for where doe i mention the sword of the magistrate in my epistle ? what are the words that i use to engage the sword of the migistrate against any religion ? all that i doe , is but briefly to decipher and complaine of that mischief that hath come of an universall toleration of all religions , & that not as avowed and allowed by the state , but by you and others cryed up and usurped . . we take not upon u● to prescr●be to the magistrate any way in religion , which he should establ●sh , but advise him specially to have recourse to the word of god , which is a sure and cleare rule ; out of which he may learn● by diligent search and prayer , taking also the advice of godly and learned ministers , what is the good and right way , which he himselfe should embrace and also commend , yea , and command unto his subjects . . a● under the bishops there was a power practised which was tyrannicall , whereof you also , a● well as other , did complain ; so now also in this multiplicity of religious wayes , set on foot , some courses must needs be erroneous and schismaticall , in which company you and your party march with the foremost . obj. neither you nor any other sit in the chaire of infallibility , and so have no power over the conscience , which none can have but an unerring law . answ. . whence are these loud words concerning our infallibility ? our speech is not of our power , but of the power of the magistrate . . if the magistrate may not make lawes in matters of religion , because he is not infallible in his determinations , upon that account you may as we●l abolish his power about lawes in civil matters ; for in those he may mistake , though not so oft and foulely as in matters of religion , and enact things not onely heavy and burth●nsome unto his people , but also unjust and unrighteou● . . there is an infallible and unerring rule , viz : the word of god , by which the magistrate i● to be direct●d in making lawes : and so farre as he keepe● close to that , his determinations are infallible , and to be observed . . the matters that he commands in religion ought to be the manifest precepts of god , or evidently consonant to his word ; and then though as being the command of the magistrate , they doe not absolutely binde the conscience ; yet as god● l●wes , they have power so to doe . it is then a vaine surmise , to imagine that the magistrate in making such lawes , doth encroach upon mens consciences , as binding men by his meere authority unto the observance of them , and that under p●ine of damnation , when as he doth onely command externall duties of religion , to which men by gods law are bound in conscience : a● for example , the sanctifying of the lords day , publique attendance upon the word , and other natural worsh●p of god , and forbidding what is manifestly forbidden by the word , the open professing and publishing of error and heresies , and making unwarrantable schism● in the church , and that onely under some temporal penalties and rewards . obj. suppose you and others were infallible , yet neither you nor any can create beliefe in the hearts of any that are contrary-mind●d answ. this argument proceeds upon a false supposition , ●● if it were affi●med , that magistrates should compell men to believe and repent , and in case they do not , were to punish them , which before hath been declared to be otherwise . the magistrates power doth not enable him to meddle with those inward and spirituall actions of the soule , but onely to regulate the outward in life and conversation . it is some mervaile to me , that you that are so acute to ●spy mysteries by others unseene , see not the weaknesse of this and of many your reasons ; for it is not in the magistrates , or any man● power to create in mens hearts the principle of true love to their neighbours , nor any of those gracious habits of inward cha●tity , temperance , meeknesse and contentation , &c. who yet by laws order some outward actions of those vertues , and forbid the actuall sins contrary to them , as railing , quarrelling , fornication , riotous drinking , theft , &c. and why then in like sort may he not make lawes about externall acts of religion , to enjoyne the exercise of them , and forbid the actuall contrary sins , though he have no power to create and infuse faith it selfe ? it is not in vain for ministers to preach , though they cannot create faith in the hearts of dissenters ; nor for magistrates to command hearing of the word , though they can infuse no faith into the heart , the outward meanes are rightly used , where the inward effect can be only wrought by god . as there is no need of the creating any new principle in the heart of man for doing these things wherein the magistrate doth command , which is onely the abstaining from outward evill acts , as the not venting or openly professing errors , heresies , and blasphemies , or the doing of some externall duties , as to joyne in gods publique worship , heare the word , and such like . to performe which , that power and freedome , which by nature they have , is sufficient . obj. the apostles in church-affairs were of infallible spirit , but yet claimed no such power , but indeavoured to draw men to faith by the cords of love ▪ a . here is the same mistake which was noted before , as if it were affirmed , that magistrates might compell infidells , or any , to the faith of the gospel : as for church-affairs , and any other matters , i trust you know that there is a wide difference between the apostles and church-officers and magistrates , and the power committed to them both . the power of the first is onely spirituall and ecclesiasticall , and doth allow them no other meanes to reclaime men from idolatry , heresie , or any sin , and to win them to the obedience of the gospel , but spirituall , viz. the preaching of the gospel , and church censures . . but the power of the magistrate is such , as doth furnish them with authority , to lay commands on men to urge them to what is good , and punishments to reclaime from evil . it is no wonder then that the apostles would not intrude into a power , which was not given them ▪ which yet magistrates may use as their proper right . . the apostles did not put forth any coactive power against the foulest sins of whoredome , drunkennesse , theft , &c. to pun●sh them with bodily punishments , or to urge men to justice , temperance , chastity , but onely by words and exhortatione disswaded from such sins and perswaded to the contrary vertue● . if therefore magistrates may not in religious affaires go● beyond this practise of the apostles in the use of their power , neither may they use their power for the punishment of sins against the second table , or by lawes encourage to the morall vertues thereof . obj. all humane weapons can onely force the outward man with a violent and preternaturall motion , &c. which soon turns again , when the constraint is over . a. . it is not the proper effect of humane & magistratical commands to force menby a violent motion , but rather tends to move them to a ready & willing obedience : such violent and constrained obedience comes not from the command , but from the indisposition of the commanded parties , who are ill affected to right and truth . . that motion which is unto good , and from evill , though somewhat forced , is more naturall unto man in his right estate , and more agreeable to his right end and duty , than a most free and willing motion unto sin and from good . . forced motions are used for the common good in other things , and that without blame , and so may be here in some things , and in the order above prescribed . the state doth force its subjects by pressing , and such like wayes , to serve them in their wars ; servan●s are oft compelled , will they , nill they , to do their masters work ; children to do their duty to their parents . so by law-courses untoward debtors are constrained to p●y their debt● . now these motions are such violent motions , as here you except against , and such as would soon cease , if the constraint ceased . but who complains of any wrong herin done them , since the things they be constrained to be just and equall , and for the common good ? and what lets , but that some constraint with wisdom and moderation may be used in religious matters , since it is a thing most just and righteous , and for the common good , both civill and spirituall , that idolatry and heresie be suppressed , and that the people doe attend the preaching of the word , and god● service in praying to , and prayising him ? . the motion may at first be violent , but afterward become very voluntary ; what a doe is there at first to bring a bullock to the yoke , or a colt to the saddle ? when at length the o●e willingly comes to the yoak , and drawes in it , and the other as willingly heares the saddle and his rider . it is oft so that a young scholar for a time is forced to schoole ; but being a while entred , and taking some l●king of learning , goeth to schoole very freely and willingly . so may it be , and o●t is , in these matters wee treat of . but last , this makes as much against all correction of children , and all law-making about matters of the second table , as against coercive lawes in religion . for there they force children and men with a violent motion , as much as here : and it utterly impeaches the courses of the godly kings , asa and josiah , in their reforming of religion , as taking such courses as could onely force the outward man with a violent and preternaturall motion , who yet are for such their practise praysed in the scripture . obj but the gospel naturally begins with illightening the understanding , then perswading the will &c. and the summe of the covenant is to write the law in the heart . ans. this argument , as some other before , proceedes upon a false supposition . . it surmiseth , that such magistraticall commands and penalties , by our opinion , serve to work inward grace in mens hearts , and for their conversion , when we teach that they are onely to order the outward actions of man . . it surmiseth , that they oppose and goe contrary to the work of the gospel in mens conversion , which is utterly untrue . and the course , which by those that plead for the magistrates power in this thing , is commended to the mag●strate , is by you wittingly dissembled and concealed , to make their doctrine the more harsh , and to set the fairer glosse upon your large discourse , concerning the order of the gospels working ; therefore to deale fairly , you should have let them know , that we doe not say that the magistrate's command should goe out alone to force subjection to it , but that there should goe with it all along the preaching of the word , and all good meanes of instruction , to reclaime from ●●rour , and instruct in the truth , and perswade to the obedience of it . it is their minde that men should be dealt with as reasonable creatures , and led by reason and perswasion , and not as bruit creatures , onely forced with goads and whips . . this course is far from opposing the gospel's way , as that it directly tends to further the working of it , that the lord thereby , according to his covenant , may write his lawes in his peoples hearts . the end of it ( as was said above ) is to bring men to the hearing of the gospel , and attend upon it ; without which it can never work either to the illightening of their understanding , or the perswading of their wills . moreover , for the covenant , which is , that god will write his lawes in the heart ; this writing , no doubt , is meant of the whole law , that of the second table as well as that of the first . what then , may not magistrates make lawes to regulate mens actions in duties of the second table , as against the foule sins against it , because gods covenant is to write these in the hearts of his people ? and if this writing such lawes in mens hearts , evacuate not the magistrates legislative power about such duties , why should it take away the magistrates power to make lawes about religion , and the duties thereof ? the like may be said concerning the gospels illightening the minde , and perswading the will , which concernes not onely the mysteries of the gospel , and matters of religion , but the works and duties of the second table ; to the right peformance whereof there is need of the illightening of the minde , and perswading of the will ; about ordering which , yet power is granted to the magistrate . farther , why goe you not on to urge this farther with familists , and seekers , and the like , against preaching the word , and such other meanes of edification , as vaine and uselesse , since god doth promise to write his lawes in his chosens hearts and mindes , without mentioning any such external helps , yea addeth , that they shall no more teach one another , saying , know the lord , for they shall know every one the lord from the greatest unto the least of them . jer. . . . obj. this was the method he apostle followed , corinth . . . answ. here is a plaine change of the question ; for the question is not , what method the apostles and ministers may and ought to use for inward conversion ; but what course magistrates may follow in outward matters of religion , aliud est sceptrum , as he said , aliud est plectrum ; it is one thing to sway a scepter , and to carry the temporal sword , which cutteth the fl●sh , and another thing to manage onely the sword of the spirit , viz. the word , and church-discipline , which onely medleth with mens spirits . another manner of power for making lawes and assigning punishments , i● annexed to the temporall sword , than to t●e spirituall . . what answer hath been given to the former arguments , may serve here , namely , that this course doth not thwart the apostles method , but doth promote it . . that that writing mentioned by the apostle , which was by the spirit , and in the fl●shly tables of the heart , doth concern the duties of the second table , about which the apostle makes many exhortations in this and his other ep●stles , as well as dutyes in religion ; wherefore the apostles method excludeth the magistrates power no more from medling with matters of the first table than of the second , and permitteth him equall power in them both . obj. you endeavour by a contrary course to constraine the body to what the heart opposeth : and then , if whatsoever be not of faith , is sin , your course is contrary to the gospel-order , and destructive to mens soules . answ. this argument seemes not to be your helena ( as you call an argument of mine ) but your achilles , as a strong argument is sometimes called achilleum argumentum , as which in this question seemeth to be of the most force and strength . but i answer , that it is not contrary to the order of the gospel , nor destructive to mens soules , by civil lawes instruction going along , and being also used to restraine men from idolatry , and publishing heresies , or to command them to the necessary and naturall duties of gods worship , though it be against their minde and perswasions . for first , the gospel doth not allow that mens erroneous consciences and perswasions should be their rule or guide in religion , or any other way , but onely the word of god . . the gospel doth no where allow unto men the practise of idolatry , or the open profession of errors and heresies : . as christ hath appointed that his gospel should be preached to every creature ; so all men are bound when and where it is preached , to be ready to heare it . it is therefore more contrary to the gospel , and more destructive to mens sou'es , to suffer them without restraint to continue in idolatrous worship , and hereticall wayes , than to restrain and compell them according to the abovesaid order . obj. but whatsoever is not of faith is sin , and men may not be compelled to sin . answ. it is true , that whatsoever is not done with a due perswasion , that it is right and lawfull , but against such a perswasion , and with a doub●ing conscience , is sin to him that shall so doe it , but is not alway so in it selfe , nor to him that shall command the doing of it ; but may be a most just and necessary duty , and very justly commanded to be done . . there are things meerly indifferent in which to enforce men to practise against their consciences , is against charity , is a breach of christian liberty , and an abuse of magistracy . for there is no breach of any command of god , in doing or not doing such things , and god may be honoured and acknowledged both in his doing or not doing thereof . rom. . . there be matters of lesse moment in religion , and circumstantiall points of discipline , or so , in which , who so dissent , and carry their dissent in a peaceable and humble way , are much to be born with , and no hard measure is to be put upon them . . there are maine and necessary , but externall duties of religion , negative and affi●mative , and some such as oblige all men even by the law of nature ; which to command men to observe and restraine from the contrary evils , though it go against their mindes , is no sin in the magistrate . for first , the doing of the one , and the neglect of the other , are manifest and palpable sins , are sins per se , and in their owne nature . to suffer which would reflect upon the magistrate , to make him guilty of the sin , who hath power to restrain it and doth not . sam. . . secondly , the sin that arises upon the doing necessary and main duties , or not doing , according to the magistrates command , comes , ex accidenti , by accident , not by the nature of the thing commanded , which is not onely good in it selfe , but also a necessary duty ; nor by vertue of the command , which commands nothing but a thing manifestly good , and a necessary duty ; but by the ill disposition and erroneous perswasion of the person doing or not doing . and if the inforcing of necessary duties must be forborn upon this account , that some sin by accident wil● ensue thereupon , how can ministers lawfully call upon men to pray or heare gods word , since wicked men in such services will rather by their ill doing of them , offend than please god ? moreover , magistrates in making lawes about such weighty matters , are not bound to look to particular mens consciences and opinions , but to have an eye to gods word , commanding or forbidding this or that . mens opinions and consciences are secret , and not alwayes openly known , gods word is open and manifest : mens consciences are divers , quot homines tot sententiae , so many men so many mindes ; gods word is uniforme and the same , mens consciences would be a weak and uncertaine rule for him to goe by , gods word is sure and certaine : and if mens consciences accord not with lawes in such main and manifest matters , made according to the word , it is their sin and errour , and in such case the magistrate ought indeed to take order that they may be instructed and brought to the knowledge of the truth , and so willingly submit unto it . but if notwithstanding they will persist in idolatrous , hereticall , and openly schismaticall wayes , such wholsome lawes must not give place to stubbornly erroneous consciences , but they must submit thereunto , or do justly suffer the appointed penalties . further , it is plaine , that in sundry cases men may be compell●d to that , in doing which they sin through their own default . it is the duty of subjects to serve the state in their wars , willlingly , and out of ●●ve to the publ●que good ; of servants to serve their masters willingly and out of love to them ; of debtors to pay their debts willingly , and out of love to justice . which things if they doe not , or will not doe , they are justly compelled ther● unto , though in doing it there is sin committed by them , in doing that upon force and grudgingly , which should be done by them out of love , and with a ready minde . i may yet adde , that this dart , such as it is , may be as well cast against church censures , as against this coactive exercise of civil power . for it may easily fall out , that men in the church , for feare of the censure of the church , and especially in case of deposition from their pastorall office , and so the losse of the maintenance they have thereby , may dissemble their errours , and subscribe to truth , even against their conscience : a notable example of it is in some arrian bishops , eusebius of nicomedia , & theognis of nice , who for fear of losing their bishopricks , upon the decree of the nicene council , against arrius and his complices in dessembling manner against their conscience subscribed to the decree of that council , against that damnable heresie . if then no courses may be used upon which men may be driven to act against their consciences , and so sin , neither can church-censures , nor deposition of h●reticall teachers be put in practise , upon which such an inconvenience may ensue . the conclusion then is , that it is not lawfull to compell any man to doe that which is directly , and in it selfe sinfull ; but that a man may be compelled by lawfull authority , without any fault of theirs , to the doing of manifest and necessary duties , though in the doing thereof he sin , and that only by his own default and evil disposition . let me yet tell you , that a man doth sin much less in doing a necessary good work , upon command against his misinformed conscience , than in a willing and witting omitting of it . and that whensoever the conscience is awakened , it will more sting for this last than the former , ab●ut which we have seldome knowne any to have beene troubled in minde upon doing it : and that the magistrate must needs sin in suffering such a witting and willing negl●ct of a manifest necessary duty , but can never be proved to have sinned in commanding and urging men to duti●s manifestly good and necessary . obj. we read of none in the new testament who commanded all to worship save the beast . rev. . answ. . we read of none in the new testament that were punish●d for whoredome , incest , perjury , false witnesse bearing , drunkennesse , &c. what then ? may not these with your consent be punished by the civil magistrate ? all the sons of belial would much applaud you for such a toleration of wickednesse , which this your pleading doth as much countenance , as an universal toleration for religion . . it had been fair play to have written out the whole text , that the command was to worship the image of the beast , and receive his mark in their right hand , or in their forehead . rev. . , . such compulsion doubtlesse is detestable . but what is this against compulsion to renounce the idolatry of the beast and all other idolatry , and to worship god in his true worship ? to which things we read , that the godly kings of judah , asa , jchosaphat and josiah compelled their subjects , to their praise and commendation . the fault is not noted to be simply in the course of compulsion , but in the object of false worship , and open profession of popery , to which he compelled . and thus have i cleared our barque from those dangerous shelves , upon which you made account to wreck us , and have brought it safe to land . now it followes : obj. it is conceived that you ( presbyterians you mean ) are in this a part of the greatest and most deceivable schisme , that ever came into the world . answ. a foule and lewd reproach , but fit enough for your wide mouth . thus indeed the papists did judge of us , and so doe still , who condemn the reformed churches of a wicked schisme , in departing from them , and them most , which went farthest off from them in that , as well in d●scipline as in doctrine , with whom you and yours symbolize in this accusation of us . but as one saith , non eadem est sententia tribunalis christi & anguli susurronum , the sentence of christs righteous judgement , and of whisperers in their corners is not all one . next , after some pretty many lines followes a volley of sl●nderous reproaches , in matching classicall government with episcopacy : whereas that was a lordly government of one over a whole d●ocess ; this is onely a brotherly combination of many ministers and ru●ing elders ; to manage church affaires by common consent , and that as much as may be , according to the word of god . . as if we did take authority to adjudge all beside our selves to be hereticks , schismaticks , &c. and did seek by humane force to captivate others to our wills and canons , and were beneath a legall spirit in dealing worse with others than we would be deale withall . all which are but the lashings of a netled jade , that kicks and ●●ings his heeles at randome , at those that are about him . for first , who is there of those that i name expr●sly , that you will have the face to excuse from the blame of an eroneous sect ? which are arminians , antinomians , soule-mortalists , antisabbatarians , seekers and anabaptists , with rigid irreconcileable seperatists ? or where doe i speak of captivating all others to our wills ? our independent bretheren here you gloze withall , and stroke them ; for which yet they have little cause to con you any thank : for in your book you soundly box them . n●xt followes a blazing of the conscientious piety and state-fidelity of your party , and some others , with a plen for an universal liberty . to which this is all that i will say , that where those things are found ( of which you boast for your selves and others , which is no great modesty ) as they deserve their due respect and encouragement , so they may not , nor can serve for a just plea to countenance any errour or erroneous course ; nor can challenge any other liberty than will stand with the leave of gods word for the magistrate to grant . and if any laid out their dear lives to purchase this vast universall liberty for themselves and others , they spent their lives to no good purpose , and with small comfort to themselves . when we and many other peaceable christians were under the prelaticall yoak , what liberty would have been gratefull to us , appeared by the writings and petitions of non-conformists in those dayes , which was an ease from the burden of subscription , and sundry ceremonies superstitious , and plainly superflaous , without any endeavour to break off communion in the publique worship of prayer , hearing , and sacraments , wherein they were willing to joyne , much more without pleading for a toleration for all wayes in religion , an abomination by them abhorred ; or derogating from the magistrates power to command in matters of religion , which they did then ( as now ) unanimously maintain , and your sect did eagerly oppose . when we are guilty of that calumny which you falsely charge on us , we shall neede your jeering advice : but in the meane while i say with the poet . loripedem rectus derideat , ethiopem albus . let the straight foot jeere the polt-footed man , and the faire face the ethiopian . to go along with you , after you have smeared your paper with some foule over flowings of your gaule , in charging upon me fopperies , opprobrious dealings , &c. without instancing any particulars ( which is but deceitfull dealing ) you schoole me for taxing your way for a sect and sch●sme , and assay to informe me better in the nature of these . a sect ( say you ) is a rent ; a schisme is a cutting off , or dividing from the truth . answ. it is not worth the labour to make much adoe about words ; but it will not be amisse to let men see your ignorance in some things , wherein you would seem to be acute . a sect therefore cannot rightly be englished a renting ; it comes not from any word that signifies to rent , but is derived ( as some ) either à secando , which is to cut , whence is sectum , secta , and so sectu , is as it were , a part cut off from others , or from the truth , to which they should stick and adhere , by which course there is a dividing into sundry sides , according to that of the poet ; soinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgus . the inconstant people doe themselves divide into contrary parts from side to side . or ( as others ) à sectando , which signifies earnestly to follow , noting a company which doth stiffly follow some opinion or party , with a resolution to cleave thereto . a schisme is a greek word orginally , and comes {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which signifies to cut , or cleave in two , and as it were divide one from another , and is translated mat . . mark . . luke . . rather a rent than a cutting off , because in an old cloath patched up with a new piece , it is not meant that thereby one piece is cut off from another ; but that therein when it is worne out , the breach is made the wider . . not is it rightly said , that a schisme is a cutting off , or dividing from the truth , but rather a dividing of mindes and affections between men , and a breaking off from church communion between those that agree in the truth of the gospel . this by divines is usually laid downe to be the difference between heresie and schisme . heresie stands in the intertaining and stiffe maintaining false and perverse doctrine ; schisme is the practise of an unlawfull and undue separation from a true church : one may be an heretick , and not a schismatick , as if a man denying some prime article of faith , doe yet adhere to a church confessing the true faith : and one may be a schismatick which it not an heretick , as if a man soundly holding all the articles of the faith , will not yet communicate with a true church is gods publique worship . schismaticum facit ( saith another ) communion●● dir upta societas , the breaking off from church-society and communion doth make one a schismatick : of which who is more guilty , you in your way , or we , can be no question ; when as you display this course of separation , as the chief banner of your company , in defiance of all church-society . it is true as you say , that truth newly springing is often branded with the black cole of a sect and heresie . and it is also as true , that error , when it cometh abroad , is wont to disguise it self under a counterfeit habit of truth , the better to in grati●te her selfe with unwary persons . and from whomsoever you should heare such language touching your way , that it is a sect or schisme , it may be playne , but no soul language , to call a fig a fig , or a spade a spade . next , for some touches given your company you are shrewdly passionate , and kick and lash very wildly . in ovids verses taken up by me onely in way of allusion , there is nothing can be found by you but scurrility , ribaldry , and the language of hell . alack good man , that a verse or two of witty poetry should be taken in so ill part by you : but this is nothing but the cynicall arrogance and churlishnesse of your spirit . the truth is , it was such a pretty picture of your gadding and r●mbling company , that you could not see it so lively set forth with patience . and if a verse or two out of ovid be the language of h●ll , what language use you , who alledge a verse of his ? but i wo● to little purpose ; in the margent of your book , pag. . morte cadunt subit â per mutua vulnera fratres : for the scandall of ribaldry cast in my teeth , it is true that that wanton poet was faine to excuse his looser verses elsewhere used ; for which he was justly blamed , with these words ; lasciva est nobis pagina , vita proba . our writing loose and wanton is , my life is honest for all this . but for my part i have not in all my dayes ( which are not a few ) been upbraided with ribaldry in speech or writing untill now by you . and what is the ground of this foule crime ? a dist●ck which i borrowed out of ovid , in which , as he elegantly , and as far from scurrility and ribaldry , as you are from modesty in so charging them , describes the flocking of the thehans after the orgia , as they were called , the worship of bacchus newly brought amongst them ; so i by the same set out the rambling of sundry amongst us , after your new-set-up way and course of religion . both which courses , as in this flocking of people after them , they doe agree pretty well ; so you may know , it is far from my intent for matter to compare the worship you use , wherein is some exercise of the word , and prayer to god well intended , though the manner and end in the way of separation , and other wayes , cannot be justified , with the profane and impious orgia of bacchus : but for the verses , latine or english , let the chastest susanna read them , and i dare say , neither her chafte eare shall heare , nor eye espy any tittle that hath the le●st shew of r●baldry : and unlesse you can shew plainly in what words this r●baldry lyes with which you defame me , you doe but proclaime your selfe a foule-mouth'd rayler to all understanding men . as for the free doal you make among your hear●rs , of what you have freely received , if they understood themselves , they have little cause to thank you for it , who for bread cast stones amongst them , that is , intricate matters which they cannot bite or understand ; or for wheat give them chaff , that , is light and unprofitable stuff to feed upon . and if you mention this your doale to blame the ministers , which receive and requ●re due maintenance for their labour . i trust you know , and will yeild to it , that christ hath ordained , that they which preach the gospel , should live of the gospel : and if your free receiving your gifts binde you to a free giving , why do● you not as freely spend and bestow your tempocall meanes upon your hearers and followers , which i hope you will acknowledge to be as freely given you , as your spirituall gifts ? i desire not to derogate from the pretiousnesse of your saints , if so they be : nor can you with all your painted language excusethem or your self from that instability i charge on them . if paul justly charge the galatians with this inconstancy , that once they did reverence him as an angel of god , yea as christ jesus himselfe ; but afterward , upon their giving eare to false apostles , who turned them to another gospel , did slight him , yea counted him as an enemy , how can you and many of your company , free your selves from the like blame ? who not , many yeares since , acknowledged our ministers the true ministers of christ ; heard them gladly , followed them earnestly , confessed the spirituall good you received by them ; but now , not onely for sake them , and i doubt , against your consciences , disclaime the comfort and conversion wrought in you by their ministry , but load them with the foulest reproaches you can , as calling them priests of baal , and antichristian , &c. what in me is invective language , gaule , vinegar , and cruell gaule of aspes , as all these you fi●de in ovids harmlesse verses , had been in you ( as you speak in your paper to me ) but an abstersive to cleare up my dimme eye sight . but whatsoever fault be in my language ( of which let the reader judge ) truly it must lye upon my selfe alone , and not be charged upon any other , who had no hand in it . but it is as far from any of these bitter things , as from scurrility or ribaldry : some salt perhaps there is in them , with which your galled back cannot endure the rubbing . we in our way challenge no throne or kingdome to our selves ( as you scoffe ) our desire and endeavour is onely to set up the kingdome of jesus christ , which while you seek to darken by your foule errors and schismaticall courses , we cannot but make it matter of sadnesse and grief unto our hearts : and for your matching us ( which is your constant course ) with antichristians , and charging us with blaspheming god with them ; let all christians take notice of your spirit , and the lord rebuke you for it . there is no gault , no vinegar , nor venome of aspes in such language , because your . concerning your passage of outward jerusalem , figured by hagar , with its application , it doth no more concerne ut , than all others , who maintaine stated churches , and oppose you as well as we doe in this your new way of meere separasion . . to answer more particularly , there are externalities of divers sorts . . such as are meerely legall , and are by christ abolished . it was the jewes of that outward jerusalem , st●ff standing on these in paul's dayes , and that as still to be continued ; and as necessary to salvation , that made them such enemies to those that walked in a free gospel-walk , free , not i ween ( as you seem to intimate ) from all externalities , but from those legall ones , and as urged by the false apostl●s . . such as are grosly idolatrous and superstitious , as most among the papists . . such as are meerely humane , and of mans invention . and it is so commonly , that such as stand rigidly on those exte●nalities , prove enemies to such as desire to walk in a gospel liberty . there are externalities that are of divine institution , as constitution of visible churches , officiall ministry , sacraments to be duly administred , church-censures , upon which to stand rigidly is no fault , no● any counterfeit holinesse . it is onely to stand upon christ his order and ordinances . and the primitive christians walked not in any freedome from these , but in a willing subjection to them . and if you now , or any other , in your course of separation , shake off these externalities , as you terme them , of christs institution , they are not children of a christian , but of a carnall and licentious liberty : and their ●ime at spirituality is meerely counterfei● and deceitfull . for the outward court rejected , revel. . . it is not ( as you would have it understood ) the ou●ward state of visible churches among protestants , but the visible and outward state of the romish church , as hereafter shall be more fully cleared ; which is indeed a mother that doth enslave her children . now toward the end , somewhat you have a mind to say about your first letter ; where first , for the report given out about your letter , and my not coming to conference with you , i have given some answer in the beginning of my reply . the other matters about some mistakes in some words and quotations ; there is no such wrong done as needs any exp●stulation on either side . for there is no advantage taken upon any such matter to the prejudice of either cause . and if it should be done on either side , it would prove but a cavill ; and redound to his discredit who should make it . if some places of scripture by you alledged , were omitted by me , for hast or by over-sight , you know thatyou had an answer to them from another reverend man by my procurement , which i sent to you , though you pleased to take no notice of it ; and i shall , i trust , god assisting , give answer to them all in due time . but now for a conclusion , there is a capitall crime , or some deep plot charged on me : your book , say you , is not dated at the beginning according to the usuall manner . at the end of your epistle it beares date august the . now it came not out untill december , neere four moneths after : whether this be double dealing , to make the reader believe that we were ●ardy in our reply , is best knowns to your owne conscience : answ. it is wonder that here you did not make a o yes , and as he call our , hearken o people every one of you . here is , no doubt , a weighty matter to cavill at , and to charge upon a mans conscience , as if i were by when the book was in printing , and gave any order about its dating : it is dated as all other books be in the beginning and as your own noting , the party for whom it was printed , and the yeare when it was printed , though not the moneth , nor day of the moneth , which is is not usually noted . . the long distance between the date of the epistle and the books coming forth may shew indeed ( and that is the plaine truth ) that it was long ere i could prevaile with the stationer to undertake the printing of it , and the slow going on of the press . but it seemes that you are very jealous of your credit , and would have the world take notice of you● ability and readinesse to write and answer : in which point i shall not co●tend with you . i did in my book , toward the end , acknowledge , and still doe , that i am but of a dull apprehension , and slow motion , and now somewhat the slower by reason of my age , having fulfilled the . yeare of this mortall race . you , for me , shall goe away with the praise of this swiftnesse . it shall suffice me , if after some p●odding and longer deliberation , i can at length finde out the truth . in which case yet i wish you to take notice of the proverb , that tardus aliquando celerem assequitur , he that is but slow , may at length overtake the more swift of foot . i will conclude with a story of melancth●n , who in a disputation with errius , a popish sophister , being urged with a subtil● argument from him , after some demur about it , said , i will answer it to morrow . oh ( saith errius ) this is not for your credit , if you cannot answer extempore , out of hand , and presently . to whom melancthon did reply , o good doctor , i do not seek mine owne credit in this businesse , but the truth : to morrow you shall heare me . thus i had rather suffer in my credit for dulness , than prejudice the truth by my too hasty swiftness : qui dicit quae vult , audiet quae non vult , whose humour is to speak what he doth please , shall hear what will afford him little ease . a briefe and solid exercitation concerning the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion , by a reverend and learned minister , mr. george petter , deceased , lately of bread in sussex . qu. whether the civil magistrate by his authority may compell men to do● any thing against their conscience in matters of religion , or in the worship of god , as , to come to church , and there to heare the word preached . answ. the magistrate being ordained of god to be custo● utriusque tabulae , both may and ought to use his authority , in compelling those under his jurisdiction to the due performance of all externall religious duties commanded of god , and required in the first table of the morall law . . but rom. . he is the minister of god for the good of his subjects , that is , to procure and provide for their good and welfare . now the chief good of his subjects is their spirituall good , the good of their soules : and how doth he provide for this , if he suffer them to neglect and omit the duties of gods worship , and the ordinary meanes of their salvation , and doe not compell them to perform and to use the same ? . but tim . . one end for which we are commanded to pray for those that are in authority , is this , that we may under them , and by their meanes , lead our lives in all godlinesse . whence it followes , that it is the magistrates duty by his authority , to provide that subjects may live under him in all godliness . and how can he be said to do this , if he do not by his power take order that they may duly performe the maine duties of piety commanded by god ? . that from the example and practise of some of the religious king● of juda , chron. . . josiah made a covenant to walk after the lord , and to keep his commandements , &c. and he caused all in jerusalem and benjamin to stand to it . so chro. . the like covenant , by the authority of asa , was made by his people , ver. . they entred into a covenant to seek the lord god of their fathers , &c. and that whosoever would not seek the lord , &c. should be put to death , &c. this was a compulsion in an high degree . . that , if a master of a family may and ought to compell his family , yea and strangers too , coming or being in his house , to the outward sanctifying of the sabbath , at least to keep them from prophaning it , as appeares by the fourth commandement : then may a magistrate do the like , according as is read of , and commanded in nehemiah , cap. ▪ , &c. . obj. if the magistrate compell his subjects to doe things against their conscience , or which they in their consciences are perswaded to be unlawfull for them to doe , then he compells them to sin . answ. here it is to be considered , from whence this perswasion in the subj●ct doth proceed ; if from an ignorant and weak conscience , as in such as have not had the meanes , or no sufficient meanes to teach them , and informe their consciences right touching the lawfulnesse of the things enjoyned , then i think such persons are not to be compelled to such things , till they have beene first conferred withal , & better instructed & informed of the lawfulness of those things injoyned by such as may be presumed better able to informe them , than they can inform themselves : yet here this caution is to be added , that when such dutyes of religion are enjoyned by authority of the magistrate , such ignorant or weak persons are not rashly , or of their owne heads , to withdraw their obedience by refusing to conforme to the dutyes enjoyned , but they are first in all modest and humble manner ( and that speedily ) to propound their doubts and reasons of their refusall , and to desire satisfaction therein , from such as are in authority . . if on the other side the foresaid perswasion doe proceed from an obstinate conscience , as those that have had the meanes of teaching , and have been sufficiently convinced of the lawfulnesse of the things enjoyned by authority of the magistrate , and yet doe obstinately persist in refusing to doe them , then the magistrate compelling them to outward conformity in doing the dutyes enjoyned , doth not compell them to sin , but useth the meanes to reforme sin in them , by punishing them for their obstinacy , thereby to reclaime them from it , and from their contempt and neglect of gods ordinances . now this the magistrate may and ought to doe : for rom. . it is said , he beareth not the sword in vaine , and is therewith to punish evil doers ; but surely they are evil doers , who do wilfully even against the light of their conscience● , refuse to be conformable in such dutyes of rel●gion and gods worship as are enjoyned by the magistrate . these are {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , selfe-condemned persons , titus . . the magistrate in this case doth not cause such to sin , nisi per accidens ; vide pet. mart. loc. com . clas. . c. . obj. faith and religion are not to be forced , but to be freely and voluntarily taken up and embraced , according to that of tertullian , ad scap. cap. . nec religionis est cogere religionem , quae sponte suscipi debet , non vi . it is not according to religion to compell men to religion , which ought freely to be taken up , and not per force : and that of lactant. institut . lib. . cap. . religio cogi non potest , verbis potius quam verberibus res agenda est . religion cannot be forced ; the matter is to be effected by words rather than by stripes . to such purpose amb. lib. . ep. . answ. to compell men to conformity in outward ex●rcises of rel●gion and of gods worship , is not to force them to believe or embrace religion , but onely to compell them to the externall use of gods ordinances , which are the meanes to work faith and religion in them , and to move them in time ( if it be possible ) voluntarily to believe and embrace true religion . . as for those places of tertullian , ambrose , and lactantius ▪ that compulsion that they speak of , is of christians toward heathen , or of heathen toward christians ( as may plainly appeare by perusing the places ) and not of the christian magistrates compelling of christians under his dominion to the outward exercise of religion and gods worship established . it is one thing for the heathen emperours , or their deputies , to compell christians to embrace paganism ; or for christian magistrates to compell the ●eathen ( who have been brought up in paganism , and never had yet the meanes to instruct them in christian religion ) to believe and embrace christianity before they have had sufficient instruction therein : and another thing for christian magistrates to urge , and compell such subjects ●t have been brought up and instruc●ed in the christian religion , to outward conformity in the publick worship of god , established by lawfull authority . obj. this is the way to make men hypocrites , when they are compelled to the outward worship of god , wanting in the meane time inward piety . answ. the scope of the christian magistrate , in using such compulsion , is not to make men hypocrites ▪ but by this meanes to move them to doe that afterward willingly , which for the present they doe by compu●sion , as austin saith of the christian● in hipp● ( where he was bishop ) that they at first taking part with donatus and his f●ction , were after moved by the severe lawes of christian emperours , reigning in those times against the don●tists , to forsake donatus and his followers , and to embrace the catholique doctrine of the church , and so in other cities also . se●aug . tom. . epist. . where he doth at large ●andle this question touching the m●gistrates power in punishing hereticks : of which epistle of austin , zanchy sayes that it is insigni● epistola , sed prolixa , a notable ep●stle , but very long . see also the same austin , tom. . operum contra epistolas petili●●i donatista , lib. . c●p . . &c. . and also in his epistle , in which places he treats of this question touching the magistrates power in punishing hereticks . in the former of those places , whereas p●tilian complain● of the emperours forcing the donatists to the catholick faith by persecution , austin makes this answer to him , non persequimu● vos , nisi quemadmodum veritas persequitur falsitatem , &c. we persecute you no otherwise , but as truth doth persecut● falsehood . and againe , whereas petilian boasted that the donatists did not compell any to the faith ; austin answers thus , ad fidem quidem nullus est cog●ndus invitus sed perseveritatē , imo●er miseric●rdiam dei , tribulationum flagellis solet per●idia castigari . num quid quia mor●s optimi libertate voluntatis ●liguntu● , id●o mores pessi●i non legis integritate puniuntur ? s●d tamen ma●e vivendi ultrix , disciplina pr●postera est , nisi quum pr●cedens belle vivend● doctrina contemnitur , that is , no man truly is to be compelled to the faith against his will , but through , the severity , yea through the mercy of god , perfidiousnesse is wont to be chastized with the scourge of tribulation . what i pray , because good manners are chosen by a free good-will , shall not therefore bad manners be punished by sound and wholsome lawes ? notwithstanding , that discipline , which is the revenger of evill living , is preposterous , unless when the precedent instruction of well-living is despised . to which may be added that of austin contra epist. gaudentii donatistae , lib. . cap. . quod vobis ( donatistis ) videtur invites ad veritatem non esse cogend●s , erratis nes●ientes scriptur●● & virtutem d●i , qui eos volentes facit dum coguntur inviti , whereas it seems to you donatists , that none are to be compelled to the truth against their will , you erre not knowing the scriptures , nor the power of god , who maketh men willing while they be enforced against their will zanchy in praeceptum . cap. . de imaginibus , thes. . handles this question , where thus he expresseth the sum of what he holds concerning it ; augustini sententiam sequor , piu● magistratum posse pro authoritate sibi a deo tradit● , & ver● etiam si viderit se posse ▪ suâ authoritate ad ecclesi● adificationem uti , ex officio debere subditos suos a malo ad bonum & a superstitionibus ad verum cultum cogere , tempore tamen commodo & ●edo ad ●inem consequendum utili prudenter observato that i● , i follow the sentence of austin . that the godly magistrate may according to that authority given him of god ; and truly also , if he shall see that he can use his authority to the edification of the church , that he ought , out of duty , to compell his subjects from evill to good , and from superstitions to gods true worship ; notwithstanding wisely observing a convenient time , and such a manner as shall be profitable to obtaine his end . this assertion he farther explaines , and proves more at large : in one case he holds that the magistrate is to forbea●e this coaction , at least for a time , viz. si apertè viderit res tal● esse loco ut si sua si●●● pli●iter velit uti authoritate ●mnin● casura sint omnia in pejus & in totius ecclesi● eversion●m supersedendum fuerit atque in aliud tempu● d●fferendum negotium , &c. tu●c certe re●inere debet gladium in vaginâ , & curandum est ut gladio duntaxat spiritus , quod est verbum dei — ●ollantu● ex animis errores , &c. — pertinet huc augustini co●silium de supersedendâ excommunications in africa adversus ●b●ios●s , qui cum omnes fere tales essent , excommunica●i ●●● potexant nisi tota ●cclesia dissiparetur . then zanchy addes , sunt tamen quaedam mala tam gravia , ut graviora contingere non possint , ut publicae blasphemiae in filium d●i , publicae idololatriae , &c. ad haec certe connivere nullo modo potest aut debit pius magistratus , ●tiamsi ruat mundus : that is , if he plainly see things to be in such a condition , as if he should absolutely use his authority , that all things certainly would become worse , and turn to the overthrow of the whole church ; there must be a forbearing , and the businesse is to be deferred unto another time . — then surely he ought to keep his sword in the sc●bbard , and to t●ke care that errors should be removed out of mens minds onely by the sword of the spiri● , which is the word of god . — h●therto appertaineth austin's counsel about the forbearing — of excommunication in africa , against drunkards , who , when almost all were so , could not ●e excommunicated , unlesse the whole church were dissipated . notwithstanding some evils are so hainous , that worse cannot happen , as publique blasphemies against the son of god , publick idolat●y , &c. certainly the godly magistrate by no meanes can or ought to con●ive at these evils , although the whole world should fall on his head . bucan lee . com . . quest . . an magistratus debet coger● quenquam ad credendum ? resp. non potest indore fidem aut cogere mentem , sed cogere locomotivam ut audiat veram doctrinam , & media quibus exitatur fides promovere debet , &c. quest . whether the magistrate ought to compell any man to believe ? answ. he cannot put faith into any , nor constraine the minde , but he can force the loco-motive faculty , that a man may he●r true doctrine ; and he ought to promote all meanes by which faith is excited and stirred up . alsted . cas. conscient . cap. . cas. . princeps tutâ conscientiâ potest in ditione sua permittere liberam religionem , non quidem it a ut ampune quisque colat deum arbitratis suo ; sed ut bonum autonomiae , sive libertas conscientiae concedatur iis , qui in fundamento salutis conveniunt , & non nisi circa ritus & leviores quasdam questiones in negotio religionis dissident . sane si potest h●c efficere citra pacis publicae perturbationem ut omnes . & singuli subditi eandem religionis formulam amplexentur , utique nihildebet facere reliquum ad summam diligentiam hoc ut obtineat , verum quia saepenum eroquè unitatem religionis in rempub introducere conantur funditus evertune rempublicam , & unitatem civilem scindunt , non temere princeps hic quicquam audebit ; a prince may with a safe conscience permit religion to be free in his dominion , not so indeed that every man without punishment , may worship god according to his pleasure ; but that the benefit of autonomy , or liberty of conscience , or a self-law , may be granted unto them , which agree in the foundation of salvation , and differ not in the businesse of religion , but about some rites and certaine lighter questions : certainly if he could effect it conveniently , without the disturbance of the publick peace , that all and every one of his subjects should embrace the same form of religion ; truly he ought to leave nothing unaslayed unto his utmost diligence , that he might obtain it . but because often-times they that endeavour to bring into the common-wealth the unity of religion , do utterly overthrow the civil unity : a prince will not rashly dare to atttempt any thing in this matter . but b●za is more strict in this matter , whose words in his book de puniendis haereticis ; are thes , pag. . magistratûs officium est , vel externae pacis jactu●â , si aliter non potest , verum dei cultum in suâ ditione , redimere ; it is the duty of the magistrate ( if it cannot otherwise be done ) to purchase in his d●m●nion the true worship of god , even with the losse of outward peace . wolfangus capito , in a book written by him , de jure magistratûs in religione , hath these words , as they are cited by beza in his treatise de haereticis à magistratu puniendis , p. . pius princeps populum pro virili ad verbum dei audiendum & ad hoc ut vitâ & moribus illud exprimat , adiget severâ authoritate , hoc est anim adversione legitimâ ; a godly prince will , according to his power , enforce his people to hear the word of god ; and to this also , that they expresse the same in life and manners , with severe authority , that is , by lawfull punishment . mr. perkins in his treatise of callings , tom. . operum , pag. . writeth thus , that the duty of magistrates wherein they do commonly faile , is this , that they use not the sword for this end , to urge men to the keeping of the commandements of the first table , to a practise of pure religion , and to the keeping of the sabbath day . this is the duty of the magistrate , who b●ares the sword , especially for the good of men● soules . see also dr. cudworth's commentary upon gal. cap. . printed with mr. perkins comment on the five first chapters of that epistle , as a supplement to it , where ( upon the vers● of that chapter ) this question is propounded and answered . magistratus legum severitate retine●it populum in ordine — qu●ad auditum verbi , orationis communicationem , sacrificium laudi● , & sacram●ntorum celebration●m incunctanter ac religi●●● frequentet — vigore legum & virgâ disciplin● animadvertet in mores subdit●rum ●mnium — co●●c●bitq●e non solum adulteria , scortationes , ●brietat●m , furta — quod & ethnici magistratus faciunt , sed & impi●tat●m , blasphemiam h●reses , sacrilegiae , ecclesia contemptum ac desertionem . mu●culus loc. com . de migistratu , pag. , & . the magistrate by the severity of his lawes , ought to keep his people in order , so far as that they do frequent diligently and religiously the hearing of the word , joyning in p●ayer , the offering of prayse , and the celebration of the sacraments — he ought to correct the manner● of all his subjects , by the vigour of his laws , and ro● of disciplin● , and he shall restrain not only adulteries , whoredoms , d●unkenesse , thefts — which heathen magistrates also do ; but also impiety , b●asphemy , heresies , sacriledge , the contempt and forsaking of the church . mr. john cotton's animadversions upon mr: henden's letter to mr. elmeston , heretofore printed & published in his book to mr. henden . mr. john cotton's letter to mr. elmeston , sent with the following animadversions . reverend and dear sir , it is indeed a busie season with me to return due answer to sundry friends , who expect the same by this v●ssell . but because your letter is not onely yours , but a voice from the lord jesus , in which h● calleth me to beare witnesse to the truth ( for which end he came himself into the world , john . . and sent his servants ) i durst not ●mit this first opportunity of returning answer to the scruples which your letter enclosed . if when you have perused the same , your judgement con●ur therein , you may please to communicate them to your christianfriend : if otherwise , reserve them by your selfe . be intrea●●● to accept the labour of my love from your fellow-servant , and cease not to pray for me whose businesses are more than my dayes . the lord jesus be still the staff of your age , and perfect his work in your heart and head till he trans●●te you to his heavenly kingdome in christ jesus : in whom with ●●arty salutes to you and mrs. de●ly , i take leave , and rest , boston the . of the eighth moneth . . yours in brotherly love unfeigned , john cotton . my letter to mr. henden , when as i sent him a copy of mr. cotton's animadversions . good mr. henden , svch was my desire to be satisfied about your n●w way and principles , and to inform your self and followers about them , that i sent your letter wrote to me to mr. cotton to new-england , and by letter requested his judgement thereupon . in which thing , according to his courteous disposition , and desire to give witnesse to the truth , he hath condescended to me , and sent me in writing his censure upon your letter ; which i received but the last saturday , and having transcribed a copy of it , have here sent it to you for you and your disciples to peruse , and thence to receive better information about your course . it may be , that truth commended to you from a place so remote , and from so learned and godly a man , will sooner be embraced than coming from a neighbour and ordinary friend , as commodities brought from far countreys , as china , or so , are of more esteem with curious gentlewomen , than what are home-bred , according to our english proverb , far fetcht and dearely bought is good for ladies . there was , you see , a mistake in your quotation of isa. . for . which i observed not but upon the receit of your last ; upon which occasion i could say nothing to it ; and mr. cotton here doth somewhat misse of your meaning . what now i send you , in writing , i shall shortly make more publique by printing . and if notwithstanding all this , you will wander still , and mislead others , i can say nothing but what he did ; si vult hic populu : decipi , decipiatur ; if this people will be deceived , let them be deceived ; for who can hinder them that will not be undeceived ? so , i rest , decemb. . . your loving friend , jo . elmeston . certaine errors noted in the letter sent to you from a christian friend , whereof you desired my judgement . that the foundation of the beast consisted in an usurped power of church discipline , footed upon man and his will without the call of god . if the beast be antichrist , then he is contrary to christ in all his anoynments , by which he is christ . now christ is the anoynted , not onely king of his church , but anoynted priest , and anoynted prophet also . the beast i● antichrist , therefore not onely usurping a kingly power over the church , in church-discipline , but also in usurping the anoynted priesthood , in suborning to us other propitiztory and meritorious sacrifices for sin , and other mediators of redemption , as likewise in usurping the office of the anoynted prophet ; in giving us apochrypha-rules of faith , and advancing himselfe to be judge of controversies . the call of god in our time is onely for separation and rewarding , to wit , rewarding evil upon antichristians . the scripture acknowledgeth no calling onely for separation and rewarding evil ( both which are but detestations of sin ) but requireth also the practise of the contrary vertues . beloved ( saith john ) follow not that which is evil , but that which is good , john ver. . depart from evil ( saith david ) and doe good , psal. . . cease to doe evil ( saith isaiah ) and learne to doe well , isa. . , . there is no commandment of god fulfilled submitting to the negative part only ( in forbearing what is forbidden ) without performing the affirmative also , doing what is commanded . the second commandement is not fulfilled in abandoning or punishing humane or antichristian inventions , without establishi●g and observing christs own institutions . the places of scripture alledged to prove that all the calls of god in our times , are for separation and rewarding , are mis-interpreted , and mis app●ied : in rev. . . the very phrase of coming out of ●abel , implieth not onely a terminus à quo , the place from whence they should come , but terminus ad quem , as rev. . . ( a time contemporary to the other ) come up hither , to wit , into an heavenly and pure estate . that place rev. . . doth no● argue that there were no visible churches , nor members in them , till all the seven vials were powred forth on the antichristian state , but the contrary rather . for all the seven angels , that is , all the instruments and ministers of gods wrath , against the beast , came out of the temple , and such a temple it was , as was opened , that is , was visible , cap. . . and therefore there was a visible church-state , before the powring out of any of the vials . as for that which is said , no man was able to enter into the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled , it is not understood of christians ( who were in the temple before ) but of pagan nations , whose conversion it retarded by the smoke of gods wrath against antichristians ; which yet , nevertheless , hindereth not the conversion of a sprinkling of some jewes and pagans , but onely any large or numerous conversion of them . the places in rev. . , , . and isa. . . do expresly speak of the conversion of the jew● unto christ in a church estate : and their espousage or marriage to christ doth not argue his divorce from the gentiles , for the coming of the jews will not infer a rejection of the gentiles , but rather their resurrection and provocation to farther zeale , rom. . . . much lesse will these places argue , that there is no visible church-marriage from the apostacy , till this time of the conversion of the jewes . for beside what hath been said of the open and visible estate of these churches , out of which the seven angels came , it is evident , that during all the time of antichrist's reign , the woman and her seed were nourished in the wildernesse , and there persecuted of the dragon , and his vicegerent the beast . rev. . . to . now the woman is the church , and the seed her members ; and their wildernesse-estate doth not argue them invisible ; for the church of israel in the wildernesse was visible and goodly , even in the eyes of pagans , ( numb. . . and . . ) yea so visible were they , that the dragon and beast could see them , and persecute them , yea and make war against them . rev. . . the two witnesses are said to be two candlesticks , rev. . . and allegoricall candlesticks are ever in st. johns divinity taken for visible churches . in the canticles before the returne of the shulamite ( that i● before the coversion of the jews ) cant. . . there were sixty queenes and eighty concubines , besides one precious spouse above them all , cant. . , . now queenes are churches in marriagecovenant . the scriptures alledged for the restraint of the spirit from breathing on churches and ordinances after the primitve times , doe not argue an abolition or cessation of all churches and ordinances , but at most a corruption and pollution onely of the most of them , when yet in some churches the ordinances were preserved in due purity , that the saints walked in them as virgins , in whom was found no guile nor fault , rev. . , . the onely text that seemeth to look a contrary way , rev. . . doth rather beare witnesse to this truth : for the four angels that restrained the four winds from breathing on the earth , sea , and trees , they did not execute that charge untill a stronger angell than they had sealed all the servants of god in their foreheads , even twelve times twelve thousand , ver. . to . which argueth , that all the times of the antichristian apostacy ( though it lasted twelve centuries of years and somewhat upwards , rev. . . ) yet there never wanted in any century , at least , twelve thousand that worshipped the lamb in spirit and truth , by the vertue of the spirit breathing on them in their church-fellowship , as there wanted not . breathed on by a still , small , soft voyce in the sorest tyranny of jezabel , and deepest apostacy of israel , nor doe the places quoted for the returning of the breathing of the spirit at the brightnesse of christs coming , speak of christs future coming , but of the coming past and present , save onely that of ezek. . . which apparently speaketh of the jewes , and the spirit breathing on them in their future conversion , and not of christians . that of isaiah . . is most fitly accomplished in christe first coming ; as likewise that of ps. . . that other place of mat. . , . sheweth onely that the gospel shall shine forth from the east to the west , as from christs time ●o this it hath ever done : the gospel still spreading it selfe westwa●d unto this day . in all which time , if any enquire where christ is , he telleth you , wherever the eagles ( that is , the clear-sighted , and high-soaring spirited christians ) are gathered together , ver. . the third error discovereth in his distinction of gospel-ordinances , and his exp●ication and application thereof : we conceive , saith he , that gospel-ordinances are of two sorts ; . such as are founded more immediately upon our spirituall vnion in the covenant of grace , as ministry , baptisme , the lords supper , prayer , profession . . such as are footed upon church-stating , and appert●ine to the officials , as ordination , confirmation , excommunication , admission , absolution , &c. the fi●st of these we say the gates of hell never prevaile against them , as teaching , baptisme , bread , wine , prayer , profession ▪ &c. but the second sort , to wit , the keyes ( deemed essentiall to officials ) were not alwayes truly used , &c. this distinction and the explicat●on and application thereof , is not sound nor convenient . . ministry , baptisme , and the lords supper , are essentiall to officials , and more essentiall too , than admission , excommunication , confirmation , absolution : for these may all of them be dispensed by an homogeneal church without officers . but ministry , baptisme , and the lords supper , cannot be dispensed without officers . christ sent forth none to administer baptisme and the lords supper , but such officers as he sent forth for the ministry of the gospel . . the gates of hell prevailed as much against teaching , baptisme , bread , and wine , prayer , and profession , as against the power of the keyes : for as the keyes were not alwayes truly used , so neither were any of the rest . teaching was corrupted with many fundamentall heresies and errors ; baptisme with many superstitious ceremonies and undue power ; the bread transubstantiated into the body of christ , and the wine into the blood , and both transformed into a propitiatory sacr●fice for the quick and the dead ; the wine also taken from the people ; prayer was perverted into the idolatrous worship of angels , saints , images , and publickly offered in a strange tongue : and profession of christianity degenerated into the profession and pract●se of antichristian idolatry and superstition . greater abuses than these have not prevailed upon the keyes . true it is that the former sort of these were soone● purged from sundry grosse pollutions , than the exercise of the keyes . but two things would be considered : . that a● all the former pollutions were no● brought into the church and ordinances at once , so neither were they purged ou● at once , but by degrees . and why may we not perceive the keyes to be at length purged and scoured , as well as all the former ? . it can never be proved that in the da●kest times of the antichristian apostacy , the ordinances of christ were any of them wholly polluted in all the churches , no not the power of the keyes . for the promise of building the church upon a rock , against which the gates of hell should not prevaile , was given to such a church , as to whom the power of the keyes was given expresly , mat. . , . i know not what place ( there was a mistake in the letter , quoting isa. . for . which is the cause that mr. cotton's answer is not punctuall to that allegation ) the author alludeth to , when he saith the name ( of the keyes ) was foreprophecied to be everlasting , yet the hand or keyes , held forth by the hand in the interpreted place , is not so specified , isa. . . but was wholly resolved in the pope , &c. which is as unsafe as the former . for in that place , mat. . . where the keyes are pr●mised , the power and efficacy of them is given also . to thee will i give the keyes of the kingdome of heaven ( there is the name ) and whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in heaven ; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth , shall be loosed in heaven ; there is the power and efficacy of the keyes ; which though the pope and his ministers perverted and abused , yea , and exercised another key , which he received from the bottomlesse pit ; yet it is very unsafely said , that the power of the keyes was wholly resolved in the pope , and that there was no other face of officials , but amongst the papists in luthers time , and that the visible church , the foundation of these failed , and onely an elect s●aled number remain●d . f●● it is evident , and in story , yea , and in the revelation also , . that the s●aled number was a visible church represented to john under the resemblance of two candlesticks , rev. . . discerned and seen not onely by john ( representing the faithful , rev. . ● . ) but also by the dragon , and by his vicegerent the beast , who persecuted the woman and her seed ( that is the church and her members ) r●v. . . to . and cap. . , . the church visible to malignant persecutors , was doubtlesse v●sible in it self , and in its members one to another . . it is evident that in luthers time , and many ages before the waldenses lived , and when luther came , wrote to luther and to calvin also , who not onely kept church-assemblies amongst themselves , but exercised the power of the keyes among themselves ; how then can the author of the epistle say , that there was not any face of officials , but among the papists in luthers time ? what could be spoken more eff●ctually to gratifie the papists , and to confirms their boasting , that either the church of rome was the onely visible church upon the face of the earth , or else christ had no visible church upon eath for above a thousand yeares together ? it is a very slender and lean evasion , to excuse the rooting out of ordinances for having any being upon earth , to hold they have a beeing in the scriptures of truth , and in the mindes and desires of the faithfull . for we might as well say , babylon hath no being upon earth , but is burnt down with fire , and the new jerusalem is come downe from heaven , because so it is in the scriptures of truth , and in the mindes and desires of the faithfull . if we doe ( as he saith ) in this our returne from babylon , carry ( as the israelites did of old ) the vessels of the lord along with us , why should we be afraid to officiate in them ? we dare not , saith he , officiate in them , because we are as yet within the territories of babylon , and so shall be , till we have passed by the sixth viall , over the river euphrates . rev. . . answ. there might be some colour for this , if the churches of europe , and of the western america , were in scripture-phrase the kings of the east . for they that are said to passe over the riv●r euphrates in that sixth viall , are expr●sly styled the kings of the east . but sooner shall a man draw east and west together , than prove christian churches to be the kings of the east , or that we are still in the territories of babylon , till we have passed by the sixth viall over the river euphrates : yea suppose we were still in the territories of babylon , yet neverthelesse , though the jewes of old did not perform temple-worship within the territories of babylon , ( because that worship was confined to the temple ) yet we in the dayes of the new testament ( where the worship of god is not limited to any place ) the true worshippers may worship the father , even in the midst of rome . and so did the waldenses , and other of our godly fore-fathers within the roman territories . the mention of the sixth viall putteth me in minde of an wholsome warning delivered in it by christ , and that to the saints of this age in a speciall manner , behold i come a● a thief ( not to the last judgement which is no yet ▪ but ) to rob men of their garments of their former profession . blessed is he that watcheth , and keepeth his garments , lest he walk naked , and men see his sh●m● . rev. . . amen . mr. cottons letter to mr. elmeston , upon his writing back to thank him for this labour of love in imparting unto me his judgment upon mr. hendens letter , and my signifying the slight account that mr. henden made thereof . deare sir , i thank you for your last letter , of march . . whereunto i woul● have returned you a large answer , but that god having lately afflicted me with an asthma , i finde , stooping to write somewhat painfull to me ; which distemper , though ( i thank the lord ) it doth not yet silence me from publick ministry , yet it keepeth me within the town , that i cannot go to neighbour towns to hear , else i had gone abroad to have joyned this day with the indians at natick ( about miles from us ) in a day of humiliation , wherein they intend to give themselves to the lord , and to the worship of christ in a church-way . it is a wise dispensation of the lord that when many christians with you , and with us too , fall off from christs institution and ordinances , that now god should stir up poor pagans to seek after the same . but so it was in the dayes of old , acts . , , . and . . as for your neighbour , i do not expect the word should convince him , till the spirit convert him more from himself , and perswade him : i do not easily believe his saying , that he had met before with all the things presented to him , but self is self-full . i should spend time in vaine to run over the particulars of his notions , unlesse all his grounds were laid open in them . to cut off some sprigs when other lye hid : the best help for such is the prayer of faith , to him that toucheth hearts as well as judgements . if god returne him not , i feare he will fall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and greater ex●●bitances , till he be filled with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 way , and hav● enough of himself . but the lord jesus rede●●● him . i comm●nd my affectionate love to you , and you to the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 grace , in who● i rest , desirous of your pra●●rs , and yours in 〈◊〉 ●●rly love , john cotton . re●●●● this . of the . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- pag . * erasm. chil. . cent . cited by mr. burg. vindic. . leg. in the preface orat. post mich. . chiliads . ●ent . . plaut. mil. glor. . act. . scen. . virg. aen. . ramus dialect . lib. . cap. . zabarel . de mente bumanâ . cap. . in his preface to his my●●ery of iniquity , not fa● from the end . buchol . in cbron. chiliad . cent. . isa. . . zech. . . revel . dan. . . psal. . . and . . cor. . . k●kerman . system . log . l. . sect. . cap. . . chro. . . deut. . . . cor. . . gen. . . chron. . . eph. . , . col. . . nè saevi magne sacerdos . matt. ● . . h●b. . . eccles. . . chil. . cent . . proprio laxesordet in ore . dolo●e agit qui versatur in generalibus . cor. . . gal. . , , . kings . ▪ notes for div a e- error ● . answ ▪ error . answ . error ▪ answ ▪ the cause plainly shewed of the persecution which is now upon the innocent people called quakers and here is also a true declaration of their just and honest intentions, and in this all moderate people may see the ground of their sufferings / by william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the cause plainly shewed of the persecution which is now upon the innocent people called quakers and here is also a true declaration of their just and honest intentions, and in this all moderate people may see the ground of their sufferings / by william smith. smith, william, d. . p. printed for robert wilson ..., london : . reproduction of original in duke university library. signed at end: w.s. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- history -- th century. freedom of religion. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the cause plainly shewed of the persecution which is now upon the innocent people called quakers ; and here is also a true declaration of their just and honest intentions ; and in this all moderate people may see the ground of their sufferings . by william smith . london printed for robert wilson , at the black-spread-eagle and windmill in martins le grand . . the cause plainly shewed of the persecution which is now upon the innocent people , called quakers , &c. the sure foundation is jesus christ , the lamb of god , in whom there is no variablensse ; but is to day as yesterday , and the same for ever ; in him is all goodness , mercy and peace ; and in the vertue of his life and holiness is fruit brought forth , and it is like him , and doth not differ from him ; and this is his own work in the hearts of all the children of obedience , whom he hath gathered to be followers of him , and to keep his commandments ; and he is become their leader , and their salvation is in him , and their testimony is unto him ; for which cause they are evil intreated and persecuted , and their bodies and estates exposed to danger and loss , and through all the earthly powers changing , they have been kept under deep sufferings and sore persecution , and yet their patience hath been made manifest in bearing and enduring ; and they can truly say they beare no evil will to any who have caused their sufferings , neither is it in their hearts to seek any revenge upon them , but cheerfully commit their cause unto him that judgeth righteously : and these things doe not arise against the form or shape of our persons ; for they be now in appearance the same , as when we had much love professed , from such as now are great enemies unto us ; and whilest we were one with them , and did abide amongst them , and could have run with them in excess and vanity , we were not then reproached , nor reviled , nor persecuted and imprisoned , but seemingly much beloved : but the lord god having redeemed us from amongst them , through the power of his living word , which in his love hath entered within our hearts , and hath shaken the foundation of the earth , and caused the mountains to fall , and also hath purged our consciences from those lusts which once we lived in , and hath crucisied the flesh , and destroyed the body of sin , and the life which we had in those things he hath taken away ; and the lamb he hath raised , from whom the life of righteousness is brought forth , and hath translated us into his likeness , and stampt his image upon us , which the world doth not know ; therefore are we hated , and from this ground ariseth all the persecution which is this day upon us , and all the enmity and evil that is against us , and is uttered concerning us ; and if any bears but the name of a quaker , then the cry is to hang them , and banish them , and famish them , with much more , which is from the very cruelty of peoples hearts uttered concerning us , without enquiry whether any evil be committed by us , or any thing done worthy of such things as they utter forth concerning us : and this is for all people to consider coolly , & to weigh it in the balance of moderation and patience , and search truly into the ground ; and if we do commit evil , or do wrong to the person of any man , or disturb the nations peace , then let such punishment fall upon us , as in such case is provided for such offences ; but if no such thing can be justly charged upon us , or proved against us , then let people stay their hands from violence , and their hearts from purposing cruelty , and stop their mouths , and do not utter words so rashly ; and let the king , parliament , councils , judges , justices , officers and souldiers , all know , and also be overcome to believe , and be perswaded in their own consciences that we are an innocent people , and seek the well-being & peace of all men : and if this will not be received , nor cannot be believed , yet know , that we do believe , and also are fully perswaded in our own consciences , that our purposes and intentions are just and honest towards all men , and to live quietly , peaceably and godly in this present evil world ; and that we neither seek to destroy or ruine the lives or estates of any persons or people upon the earth ; neither do we conspire , plot , or contrive any such thing ; for we know that all plots and conspiracies , insurrections and rebellions , do arise from that spirit that lusteth to envy , and not from christ jesus the lamb of god ; and it is an evident testimony , that where such things are practised , they spring from that wicked one , and are nourished from the cruelty that is lodged in his enmity , out of which comes all murders , plots and conspiracies , rebellions and persecution ; and the scripture-testimony is clear against all such practises , and the holy men of god they never walked in them , they never plotted or contrived , nor ever persecuted any people ; nor christ jesus , the prince of peace , he never was of that mind , as to destroy mens lives , but to save them , and ought not the same minde to be in people as was in christ jesus , who laid down his life for his enemies ? he did not seek to destroy them , or persecute them , though they were his enemies ▪ now such are far off from his mind , that seek to destroy and persecute such as are not enemies , but truly friends and lovers of the whole creation : now this is not his mind , nor doth not arise from him , but is brought forth from a contrary spirit , that was alwayes against him : and where doth the scripture declare , that christ jesus the prince of peace did ever persecute , or command persecution ? or where did he require an oath , or allow of an oath , but plainly hath forbidden all oaths , and given forth a positive command not to swear at all , but to keep to yea and nay , for what was more was evil ; ( mark this ) what was more then yea or nay was evil . and here was no definition or distinction of oaths , for one to be lawfull , and another unlawfull , but plainly forbids them all , and bids them keep to their yea and nay : and we can truly say before the lord , that we do not deny swearing upon any other account , but in obedience to his commands ; and it is neither disaffection nor disloyalty to the king nor his government , but to manifest our love to the king of eternall glory , in keeping his commandments ; and though this be the great cause , at present , of our suffering and persecution , and from which so much wrath and fury is now against us , yet are our consciences void of offence , and in that we have peace , and we know our salvation and deliverance is in the hand of the lord our god ; and we know that persecutors have been alwayes ignorant of the things of god ; for had they known him , they would not have crucified him ; and if the truth of god was known , as it is this day , in which the yea stands , and is performed , innocent people would be freed from all this persecution which is upon them , and be in their honest callings , and with their families , over which god hath set them . and all this persecution for not swearing , is come up since the apostles dayes ; there was no such things imposed upon them , to bind them in allegiance to any king or kings in those dayes , and it was many years after that statutes were made for imposing an oath of allegiance , and for refusing , to imprison the body and seize upon goods ; this is not agreeable with any practise in the scripture , but is come up in the dark night of apostacy , since the power of god was lost , and the spirit of truth ravened from . and in that day when lawes and such statutes were made for the imposing of an oath to binde to allegiance , there might be such a people as were manifestly against the king or government , & might be deceitfull in their promises , and no trust to be reposed in them , though they might make fair promises ; such a people there might be in that day , and such a people there may be in this day : but number not the innocent amongst the transgressors ; for the lord god of power hath made manifest his living truth in our hearts , and hath gathered us in it , to shew forth his praise , and in the power of truth is deceit purged out , and our words and promises in the truth of god are sure and faithfull , and our yea is yea , and we are come to that which leads us into all truth , and was before lawes and statutes were , or any kings reigne in england , whose statutes are now in force for imposing oaths . and for our allegiance to the king , we have made it manifest above many others ; for unto him have we declared the counsel of the lord , and also faithfully warned and exhorted him to obey the lords counsel , that his rule and government might stand in the power of god , unto which we are truly allieged and willingly subject ; and we have not at any time appeared against the king or his government , nor plotted or conspired any evil against his person or power , but have paid our tribute in all lawfull things , as subjects to him : and this is a more evident testimony of our allegiance to the king , then persecution and cruelty , wrath and fury ; and all this swearing and imprisoning for refusing oaths arises from the wicked one , that hath seated himself in peoples hearts , and hath the dominion over them , and brings forth his cruelty through them ; and so people having lost the power of god , that keeps faithfull in the yea and nay without an oath , they impose oaths upon one another , and swear one unto another , but do not perform their oaths faithfully ; then what is your oath worth , if there be not faithfulness to perform it ? and this is not without a witness in every conscience , this day , how many severall impositions have been invented , to engage and bind to every severall government , as it hath risen , and how have they falsified their covenants and engagements ? and it will be so though people be sworn again and again , untill they come to the power of god , that teacheth to deny swearing , and to perform every promise faithfully without swearing ; and who are not come to the power of god , that keeps faithfull in yea and nay , they are not faithfull to their oath ; so that it is not an oath that makes any faithfull to the thing they are sworn unto , but the power of god that forbids swearing , and keeps faithful to what is promised in the yea , and to what is testified against in the nay . and here stands true loyalty and faithfull obedience , both to god and man : the love is truly manifested unto god in keeping his commandments , and the allegiance faithfully performed to the king , in living peaceably and quietly under his government , without any insurrection or rebellion ; and it hath been so found amongst us without any deceit or guile , whilest others who have sworn have not been found faithfull to their oath ; therefore take our yea , and try us in it , seeing it is onely for conscience sake that we cannot swear ; and if we be not found faithfull in our yea , then we shall fall into your hands as evil doers , and bear our punishment ; but untill you have proved us and found us transgressors , do not so cruelly intreat us and persecute us , for it will draw down judgement , and not mercy ; and hitherto we cannot be charged with the breach of our yea , since we have been gathered into gods truth : therefore have we peace in our sufferings , because we stand clear before the lord , and have no guilt upon our consciences , as to the cause we suffer for this day . and were it not much better that people would come to the power of god , that forbids swearing , and keeps faithfull in the yea , then to be strangers to the power of god , and run into transgression , and falsifie their oaths ? and this is the ground of distrust and unbelief one of another , because people are not come to the power of god , then they dare not trust one another upon their yea , but impose oaths one upon another , which never makes any people faithfull . the saints yea was yea , and they were trusted upon their yea , and believed one another upon their yea ; and the kings in those dayes did not impose any oathes upon them , for the spirit of truth led them into all truth ; and what they promised in their yea , the spirit of truth led them faithfully to perform it . and so were they trusted and believed upon their yea , without any imposition of an oath to bind them beyond it : and all the distrust one of another , & the unbelief one of another , as to what is promised in the yea , it is come up since the dayes of the apostles , that the true spirit hath been lost , and the false spirit hath got a seat in people , and rules in his dominion , and leads their mindes into deceit , that their yea is not performed ; then doth the false spirit beget in them an imagination to impose an oath upon people to make them faithfull , and so hath all this swearing come up in the dark night of apostacie , and all distrust and unbelief one of another is got up since the power of god was lost , and so nothing will be taken for truth , but what is sworn unto ; and this is a manifest token of the spirit of errour , which works in the minds of people , and drawes them from obedience to the doctrine of christ and the apostles , and then labours to draw others into transgression with them . and it is said by many who are amongst the oaths , we swear , and you must swear , and the nations law is so to do , and you must obey or suffer ; and the scripture declares of swearing , and they did bind their promises solemnly with an oath , and an oath for confirmation is an end of all strife ; and abraham sware , and many others that were holy men of god , they sware ; and it was not counted unto them for transgression . now what they might do in the dread and fear of the lord god , in promising solemnly some words in their own freedome , as a sure confirmation of their true intentions to perform their promise , it doth not make the lawfulness of an oath imposed : and this they did do , and might do without transgression : but what is this to the proof of an oath formed , and people to lay their hands upon the bible , and then to have these formed words read unto them , and to say , you shall swear unto such things , and then pronounce , so help you god , and then to kiss the book ? is there any scripture that makes mention of abraham , or any of the holy men of god , taking such an oath ? or was ever such an oath imposed upon them ? and christ jesus is come , who hath put an end to the strife , and to the oaths that stood in the strife , and he now creates peace , and leads into peace , where there is neither striving nor swearing . and we can truly , pronounce our allegiance to charls the second , now king of england , and can truly promise subjection to all his just and lawfull commands , and not to contrive or conspire , or any way to rebell against his person or power , but to be assisting in all lawfull things that may be for the preservation thereof ; and we do renounce the pope and all jesuiticall practises , with all idolatrous superstitions ; and we do not , nor shall not hold any correspondencies or intelligences with the pope , or any that do belong unto him , as to the owning of his supremacy . and this we can freely promise in the presence of the lord , who is the searcher of all hearts , and knowes that we lye not ; and we can seal it with our yea , and signe it with our hands ; and the contrary with our nay , and signe it with our hands . and this innocent testimony of our allegiance and subjection to the king and all his lawfull commands , i that am now a sufferer in worcester county-gaol , because i dare not swear and run into condemnation , am made free in the lord to declare it unto all people , in behalf of my own innocency , and also my faithfull brethren , who are this day sufferers with me for the testimony of a good conscience ; and if it be so that we cannot be trusted , and be believed in our yea , and subscription unto this or some other just testimony ; we are also free to declare , that we cannot swear for conscience sake , and for no other cause or matter whatsoever ; and we are freely given up into the hand of the lord our god ; and what may be permitted to fall upon us , either in body or substance , we wait upon the lord for strength to bear it patiently , and to rest in it peaceable , untill he arise our innocent cause to plead , who now are in sufferings for keeping his commandments , and no other thing that any have against us : and if people did but know the peace and joy which in the we have , they would surely rather chuse to suffer with us in the same cause , then in any wise to oppress us and persecute us in our bodies : for in the day determined all shall receive a recompence . from the county-gaol in worcester , the . day of the . moneth . w. s. the end . at the council of state at white-hall. the parliament having lately intrusted this council to take care that the good people of england, scotland, and ireland, be protected in their peaceable assemblies ... england and wales. council of state. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing e thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) at the council of state at white-hall. the parliament having lately intrusted this council to take care that the good people of england, scotland, and ireland, be protected in their peaceable assemblies ... england and wales. council of state. sheet ([ ] p.) printed by henry hills, printer to the council of state, london : mdcliii. [ ] title from caption and opening lines of text. signed and dated at end: saturday november . . john thurloe, secr. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng freedom of religion -- great britain -- early works to . great britain -- history -- commonwealth and protectorate, - -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no at the council of state at white-hall. the parliament having lately intrusted this council to take care that the good people of england, sco england and wales. council of state. a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion at the council of state at white-hall . blazon or coat of arms incorporating the commonwealth flag ( - ) the parliament having lately intrusted this council to take care that the good people of england , scotland , and ireland , be protected in their peaceable assemblies for the worship of god ; ( not intending thereby any sufferance , protection , or countenance to any popish or idolatrous worship . ) it is hereby declared , in pursuance of the said trust , that this council will so protect all the good people of these nations ; and that no disturbance may be offered to any such , in their peaceable assemblies for the worship of god , it is expected and required of all ministers of justice to proceed against offenders herein as disturbers of the publique peace , and of all other persons whatsoever to take notice hereof . saturday november . . at the council of state at white-hall , ordered , that this declaration be forthwith printed and published . john thurloe , secr. london , printed by henry hills , printer to the council of state , mdcliii . pax vobis, or ghospell and libertie against ancient and modern papists. by e.g. preacher of the word. dedicated to the right honble the lord halyfax griffith, evan, a.m., minister of alderly. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) pax vobis, or ghospell and libertie against ancient and modern papists. by e.g. preacher of the word. dedicated to the right honble the lord halyfax griffith, evan, a.m., minister of alderly. [ ], p. s.n.], [london? : anno . e.g. = evan griffith. place of publication conjecture by cataloger. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . church and state -- england -- early works to . reformation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion pax vobis or ghospell and libertie against ancient and modern papists . by e.g. preacher of the word . dedicated to the right hon ble the lord halyfax . stand fast in the libertie , wherewith christ hath made vs free , and be not entangl'd again with the yoke of bondage ( popery ) gal. c. . v. . anno . the preface to the children of the reformation . be not concern'd to know whose hand it is which holds the link , but follow the light it gives : reach your hand to receive this treatise , which marks the shore , where the ark of our reformation , shatter'd by a deluge of troubles , may rest ; which is a holy liberty to all and each person to believe or not believe ; act or not act , as he pleases with a safe conscience acording the principles of our reformation . we generally lament the convulsions which shake our church and state , through the diversity of opinions , professed by our several congregations ; som remedies have bin applied to bring vs to peace and conformity ; but all have proved ineffectual : som of our drs judge , nothing can cure our disease , but a general council or supream authority , to whose sentence we should all submit ; but this , besides that it is popish , to grant any human power for to oblige our consciences against our jugdments in matters of religion ; is but an imaginary remedy for a real evil : for , it 's not in the reformation as in popery ; in this there is a supream authority for to convene the pastors of diverse kingdoms to a general council ; in our reformation there is none : popery believes its councils and popes infallible ; and therefore they cannot but acquiesce , because an infallible sentence leaves no doubt of the truth ; but in the reformation , all councils and human authority are fallible ; and consequently their decisions may be doubted of , and we are never certain of the truth . others judge , the remedy of our disease can be no other , but pills of persecution , penal laws , acts of parliament , ordinances of synods , forcing men to conformity ; but this has proved not only destructive to the peace of the church , but has shockt the very foundation of our reformation : for if we must believe under severe penalties what the state and ecclesiastical authority will have vs believe ; then scripture must be no more our rule of faith , but the state and church , which tells me what i must believe ; and we must be deprived of the right and power of interpreting scripture and believing it in the sense we think it to be the true ; and yet our whole reformation is cemented and was first raised vpon this holy libertie ; that every one should reade scripture , interpret it , and believe whatever he thought was the true sense of it ; without any compulsion or constraint for to believe either church , state , universitie or dr. if wee did not judge by scripture his doctrin was true . if prudence had as great a share in our conduct , as passion , wee should regulat our future by the effects of our past actions ; and if wee will cast an eye back to the transactions of later years , we will find this compulsion of mens consciences has produced but confusion in our church , and fatal disturbances in our state ; contrarywise , never did our reformation enjoy more peace , shin'd with more lustre , and held its course with more happiness , than when none was molested for his profession , but euery one had libertie to believe and teach , what doctrin and sense each one thought to be the most conformable to scripture . confider the infancy of the reformation , when god raised luther to repair the ruins of the church ; how of a suddain it spred it self in germany , france , holland , poland , scotland and england , and by what means ? was it not by takeing away all constraint of mens consciences ( vsed then only in the popish church ) our blessed reformers takeing to themselves and giving to others , a holy libertie for to teach and believe what ever they judged to be the doctrin and true sense of scripture , tho it should be against the received opinion of the councils , church , universities and drs. ? look into the reign of edward the vi. then , did our reformation florish in england ; and was miraculously propagated by the liberty of martin bucer , cranmer , ochinus , peter martyr and others in teaching calvinism , lutheranism , zuinglianism by scripture as every one vnderstood it : descend to the reing of queen marie ; then , the light of the ghospel was eclypsed , because the flock was again popishly compelled to believe , not what they judged by scripture to be true ; but what the pope and church judged was such : com down a step lower to queen elizabeths time ; then , the flock recouering that holy liberty for to believe what each one thought was the doctrin of scripture ; the reformation gained ground ; our several congregations lived peaceably ; for tho protestancy was establisht the religion of the land ; others were not oppressed , nor their liberty constrained by compulsions : step down a degree lower to king james his time ; the reformation held its course as prosperoussy as in queen elizabeths time , because mens consciences were not oppressed ; all reformed brethren had full libertie to believe as they pleased ; tho protestancy was the religion of the king : look down a step lower to king charles the first 's reign ; his matie carried with a godly zeale of restraining the diversity of opinions , begot by the liberty enjoyed in his predecessors times , would by new laws and ordinances force the flock to an uniformity of doctrin , but our zealous brethren the presbyterians , impatient of any constraint in affairs of religion , and pleading for the evangelical libetty of our reformation , for to believe nothing , nor vse any rites or ceremonies but as each one judged by scripture to be convenient ; they covenanted against his majestie and bishops ; and the storm grew to that height , that both church and state were drown'd almost in the blood of our reformed brethren : lastly looke vpon our realm as it is at present , the symptom● of disatisfactions which you may read and hear in the coffie houses , in public and privat conversations ; the sparkle● of jealousies , which appear in our land ▪ the cabals against our gouernment ; the animositie of deuided parties ; the murmur and complaints of all ; what 's all this but the smoke of that hidden fire of zeale , wherwith protestants would force presbytherians by penal laws , to profess their tenets , presbyterians exclaim against protestancy as against popery ; quakers judge both to be limbs o● satan ; anabaptists look on all three , as children of perdition ; and no congregation would give libertie for to profess any tenets but its owne ; in so much that if you consider all well , each of our cōgregations , are as severe tyrants ouer our judgments and consciences , as popery was ▪ and our reformation comes to be in effect but an exchange of one italian pope , for many english ones : for as in popery , we must submit our judgments to the pope and church of rome , or be esteemed putrid rotten members ; and be shut out of heauens gates ; and suffer inquisitions , persecutions , excommunications and what not ; so among vs , you must believe scripture as interpreted by the church of england , or you are condemned by them ; you must believe scripture as interpreted by the presbyterians , or you are accursed by them ; you must believe as anabaptists do , or you are damn'd by them ; and not one congregation among vs , but would root all the others out of the world , if it could ; and wee do not feare that danger wherof s. paul gal. . . warns vs , if wee bite and devour one an other , let 's take heed , wee be not consumed one of an other ; giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place , how to prevent this euil ; stand fast in the libertie , wherewith christ has made vs free , and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage : the world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in popery ; wherin our rule of faith , was scripture as interpreted by the pope and church : scripture was kept from the hand of the flock : no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it , but what the pope , church and fathers did approve : our reason , our judgments , our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke , vntill that god raised our glorious and blessed reformers luther , calvin , zuinglius , beza and others who tooke a holy libertie , and gave v● all libertie for to reade and interpre● scripture : to believe no doctrin , bu● what wee judged to be true by scripture ▪ to believe any sense of it , which wee judged to be true , tho contrary to all th● world : they tooke for their rule of fait● scripture , and nothing else but scriptur● as each one of them vnderstood it ; thi● same rule of faith they left to vs , and ● holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences , that any man o● sound judgment may hold , and believ● whatever sense of it , he thinks to b● true . this therefore is the scope and end o● my following treatise ; that , wheras ou● rule of faith , as j will prove by th● vnanimous cōsent of our whole reformed church , is scripture or gods wri●ten word , as interpreted by each perso● of sound judgment ; that wheras b● the principles of our reformation , n● man is to be constrained to believe an● doctrin against his judgment and conscience : ( otherwise why were not we left in popery ) it is impious , tyran●cal , and quite against the spirit of the reformation , to force vs by acts of parliaments , decrees of synods , invectives , and persecutions of indiscreet brethren , to embrace this or that religion ; that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please ; if you think bigamy to be the doctrin of scripture : if you think by scripture there is one nature and four persons in god ; if you think transubstantiation to be true ; if you judge by gods word ther 's neither purgatory nor hell ; finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture , you are bound as a true reformed child , to believe it ; that it is quite against the spirit of the reformation to censure , oppose or blame the doctrin or tenets of any congregation , or of any doctor of the reformed church ; because , that any doctrin professed by any christian congregation , whatever ( the popish excepted ) or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the reformation , since the beginning of it , vntill this day , is as truly and really the doctrin of the reformation , as the figurative presence or kings supremacy is . consequently protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutin● quakers ; quakers , for murmuring again● presbyterians ; these , for their invectiv● against anabaptists and socinians ; a● are very good ; and you may lawfully according the principles of our reform●tion believe them , or deny them . this evangelical libertie of believin● any thing , which we judge to be the sen● of scripture , tho all the rest of the worl● should judge it to be a blasphemie , the most distinctive sign of the refo●mation from popery ; for papists are th● children of agar the slave ; they liv● in bondage and constraint to believe at doctrin , which the pope and church pr●poses to them ; and if a learned man ● vniversity should judge it to be contra● to scripture ; he must submit his judgment to that of the pope , or be co●demn'd as an heretic : in our reform●tion , wee are the children of sara t● free ; our rule of faith is scripture ● each person of sound judgment in th● church vnderstands it ; if wee do n● like the doctrin of the pope , church ● council , wee may gainsay them all , an● hold our own sense of scripture : ● enjoy the prerogative of rational cre●tures , we are lead by our own reason , which god has given vs for our conduct , and are not like beasts , constrained to follow that of others . wee follow the rule given vs by s. paul rom. . he who eates , let him not despise him who does not eate ; and he who does not eate , let him not despise him who does eate , for god hath received him : that 's to say , he who believes let him not check him who does not believe , as he does : and he who does not believe , let him not blame him who does believe : but let each one believe , or not believe as he thinks best in the lord : this holy libertie and freedom is the spirit of god , for , where the spirit of god is , there is libertie , . cor. . saies the great apostle : the lord inspire to our parliament that now sit● vpon a perfect and new settlement of gouvernment and religion , to follow the footsteps of our first renowned reformers : to enact that there may be no other rule of faith , but that which we received from our reformers , and which is laid down for vs in the articles of the church of england : that is , scripture as each one best vnderstands it , without regarding the judgment , sense , or interpretation of any but the pure word of god , as we vnderstand it : and to enact penal laws against any so bold and vncharitable , as to censure or blame the tenets of any congregation , be it lutheranism , presbyterie , arianism , judaism or paganism : or any doctrin whatever , that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and doctrin of scripture . three things make me hope , that this treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious reader of our reformed church : first , that there is not one author quoted in this booke , but our own doctors , learned and godly children of the reformation ; and this j observe , that my reader may know ther 's not a jot of any doctrin heer but what is of the reformation ; and also advertise our writers and schoole men , how much , they discredit our reformed church , by makeing so much vse of popish drs and bookes in their writings ; as if wee had not great and learned men of our own ; if wee looke into our bishops and ministers libraries ; wee shall meet but books either of confessedly papists , or strongly suspected of popery ; and you shall hardly meete in any of them , the works of lurher , calvin , beza , or any of our own authors , if you do not meet som comedies , or romances : if you reade our modern writers , you shall find their bookes to be stuft with arguments stolen from stapleton , peron , bellarmin , and other popish drs. wheras they ought to take their doctrin from luther , calvin and our other first reformers , apostles raised by gods heavenly spirit ; oracles by whose mouths and pens he delivered the pure and orthodox doctrin of the ghospel ; heavenly fontains , from which wee ought to drink the doctrin of the reformation : therefore , j have made a particular study , for the comfort of my reader , not to profane this treatise with any quotation of any popish writer , none but our own drs. secondly my reader will be pleased with this treatise , because j do not oblige him to believe the contents of it : if he mislikes any doctrin couched in this booke , let him not believe it ; if he likes it , let him believe it ; what j pretend is , to maintain his libertie for to believe or not believe what he please and that none can say black in his eye , for believing whatever he judges to be the sense of scripture ; let all others think of it what they will ; for , our rule of faith , as j will prove , being scripture as each person vnderstands it , who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you vnderstand scripture to say ? som doctrins there are in this booke delivered by luther , calvin , zuinglius , beza , and others ; which our church of england and som others do call blasphemies , and scandalous tenets ; and their irreverence and arrogance is run so farr : as to condemn those blessed men , for teaching such tenets , and say that they swerved from the truth ; and had their fraileties , in so much , that many of vs are ashamed to own those great men to have been our reformers and leaders : this is an impiety altogither insupportable , it cannot be suffered with patience , that such apostolical men , who were vndeniably our first masters of the reformation , should be so vilified and abused : therefore j do prove , that ther 's no doctrin delivered by them , but is to be esteemed and called the doctrin of the reformation : and can be according the principles of the reformed church , believed and taught by any reformed child : for what is our rule of faith in the reformation , but scripture as each person of sound judgment vndestands it ? consequently what is the doctrin of the reformation , but what any person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of scripture : whatever doctrin therefore , luther , calvin , or others judged to be of scripture : how can you deny it to be the doctrin of the reformation : or blame them for teaching and believing it ? if you do not like it : the most , you can in justice do , is not to believe it : but you cannot justly say it s not the doctrin of the reformation , because it 's scripture as vnderstood by persons of good judgment : nor can you in justice blame them , or any other for believing it , if they like it : for , must not wee believe , what wee judge in our conscience to be the doctrin of scripture ? lastly my reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this treatise : as much as wee are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our modern writers , whose aim and scope in the bookes they give out seems to be nothing else , but to say so●what whereby they may be thought t● be no papists , and nothing is less foun● in their writings , than the pure and orthodox doctrin of the reformation● and what is to be bemoan'd , that you● hardly see in the houses or hands of th● flock the works of luther , calvin , o● our other first reformers , they are hi● from vs , to keep vs in ignorance of th● true reformed doctrin , and wee see bu● bramhal , tillinson , taylor , stillingfleet thorndik and such others , whose doctrin is neither popery , nor of the reformation , but a new compound of both they do so mangle the questions controverted with their scholastical subtilities and distinctions , as if they wer● ashamed to own openly our tenets and did endeauor to get the opinion o● moderat sober men with the papists by drawing as neer as their interest ca● permit them , to their doctrin . ask them , if we be obliged to believe the doctrin and sense of scripture delivered by a general council ? our first reformers resolved roundly that we are not : nay luther , saies expresly we are bound to gainsay , and work against the decrees of any council : but our modern doctors answer with a pretty distincction , ther 's a civil obligation , quoth one , but no obligation in conscience : ther 's an obligation in conscience , saies an other , provided you do not believe they are infallible : you may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively , saies an other : but not subjectively : they are infallible in fundamental points , saies an other , but not in inferior truths . an other will come yet , and say they are absoluty infallible in all articles , and thus by little and little , the papists gain ground against vs , and the lustre of our reformation is clouded by the cowardliness , or insincerity , or hiprocisy of our modern teachers . . kings . how long halt ye between two opinions ? if the lord be god , follow him : but if baal , then follow him : luther , calvin , beza and our other first reformers were raised by god to teach vs the purity of the ghospel : let vs not be ashamed to follow their doctrin : to speake , preach , and believe as they did : therefore , j do propose their doctrin in this treatise in its native coulours , that if you like it , you may believe it , and if any be so bold as to say you believe fals or sca●dalous doctrin , you must answer : i● the doctrin of the reformation , b●cause its scripture as vnderstood b● persons of judgment , and the greate oracles wee had : and if you do no● like it , you may deny it , but bewa● never to blame or check any other fo● believing it : this is the holy libertie o● the ghospel and of our primitive r●formation . first dialogue . ismael . i have read your preface and principles , & me thinks you drive to establish a new religion ; for that vnlimited libertie , which you assert for to belieue or not belieue whatever we please with a safe conscience , is not allowed by any of our reformed congregatiōs ; and it were to be wisht you should rather stick to som one of the congregations now establisht , than to erect a new one for we have but too many already . isaac . the lord forbid ▪ i should think or speake otherwise then as becometh a true child of the reformation : if you will oblige me to belieue scripture as interpreted by the lutheran church ( the like i say of any other congregation ) and deny the tenets of all others , what difference betwixt me and a papist in the electi● of my religion ? for the papist's r●ligion must be no other , but script● as interpreted by the pope and cōci● my religion must be scripture as int●preted by the lutheran church , a● no other ; my judgment and conscie● therefore is as much constrained as t● of the papist ; and our separation fr● popery will com to be but an exchan● of one slavery for another ; in th● our judgments and consciences w● slaves to the pope and councils ● this , we are slaves to the luthe● church : we became a reformat● by shaking of the yoke of pop● from our judgments , and leaving th● free for to belieue scripture as w● the assistance of gods spirit , each o● best vnderstands it ; and if we ● continue a reformation , we must ● submit again our judgments to a● other , but retain that blessed liber● we recouered for to belieue the te● of any congregation . i confess this ●bertie is not allowed by any one p●ticular congregation , as you obser● but you must also grant me , that ● allowed & taken by the whole bod● of the reformation , for in this who● body , as it comprehends protestants , lutherans , presbyterians , &c. one cōgregation believes what the other denies , and in any of them a man may live with a safe conscience ( which you will not denie ; ) therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe conscience the tenets of any congregation : hence it follows ( and to my grief i speake it ) that no particular congregation , be it of england , france , or germanie , has the true spirit of the reformation , in doting so much vpon their particular tenets , as to thinke they cannot be as well denied , as believed ; and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys , as to censure , check and force others to believe them : you shall see by this discourse , that the true spirit of the reformation is not in any one particular congregation separatly taken from the rest ; for each particular congregation constrains as much as it can , all people to believe its own tenets : protestancy would have vs all to be protestants , and would root lutherans out of the world as well as popery ; lutherans would , if they could , draw all to their own nett ; presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all , & would crush protestancy if it could : this then i● the spirit of each particular congregation , a limiting , confining spirit to som particular tenets with an exclusion of all others ; but looke on the whole body of our reformation , a● it includes all reformed congregations distinct from popery ; there i● a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either lutherans , presbyteriants , protestans , and any thing but popery , and whatever any congregation may say of an other , but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the lord is in the whole body of the reformation , since therefore that in this whole body there is a latitude & libertie for to profess divers and opposit● tenets , and that each tenet is believed by one , and denied by others ▪ we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any tenets we please , is the true spirit of our holy reformation . it 's not therefore to be wisht , as you do , that i should stick to any one particular congregation or tenets ; for such a restriction is meer popery ; and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our congregations is profane and popish : no , it s a blessing of the lord vpon our reformation , for which we shall never sufficiently thank him , that we see it divided into so many godly branches . in the house of my father , said christ , there are many mansions joan. . . ismael . by your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change religions as often as we please , and be to day a protestant , to morrow à lutheran , next day a presbyterian , and so run ouer all . isaac . i know you will be startl'd at my answer , for j am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change & run ouer so many religions ; but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the iews , and a folly to the gentils : it s therefore the doctrin of the reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day protestanrs , to morrow lutherans ▪ in france hugonots , in hungarie antitrinitarians , in poland socinians , ad in london of any religion but popery . ismael . for shame you fouly impos● vpon the reformation ; ther 's not an● congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd doctrin . isaac . by your favor , i loue th● reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zeal● for its honor and doctrin ; j am so fa● from imposing upon it , that i will evidence your error in denying this to b● its doctrin , and it will appear tha● whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change religions as time and occasion requires , must renounce the bes● and fundamental principles of our reformation , & must impiously condem● the practise of our first reformers . ismael . how will you make it ou● that this doctrin is grounded vpo● the fundamental principles of our reformation ; wheras there is not on● congregation of ours , but abhorrs it ▪ isaac sr. you may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that j am piously and charitably iealous with each particular congregation , & tha● my drift is to shew that each of them , none excepted ▪ swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit , and solid principles of the reformation , as wi●l further appear in this discours . it s v●contestedly true that the rule of faith of the reformation , is scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the lord vnderstands it ; for lutherans will never admit their rule of faith to be scripture as interpreted by the church of england , but as interpreted by themselves ; nor will england admit scripture to be their rule of faith as it is interpreted by the presbyterians ; but as interpreted by the church of england : so that the doctrin of each congregation is but scripture , as interpreted by them , and wheras all these congregations joyntly compose the whole body of the reformation , and each congregation is truly a member of the reformation ; the doctrin of the reformation coms to be scripture , as each congregation , and person of sound judgment in the reformation ( saies the church of england in her . artic. ) interprets it . this being an vncōtrouled truth ; what man of euer so sound a judgment , but may read to day scripture , as interpreted by the lutheran church , and judge in his conscience that interpretation and doctrin to be true : consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that religion ; soon after he may meet calvins bookes , & charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon scripture , he may judge in his conscience , he is to be preferr'd beforre luther ▪ and so may lawfully forsake lutheranism for calvinism ; then again he hits vpon scripture as interpreted by the church of england , whose doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of ceremonies , that majesty of her lyturgie , that harmonie of her hiera●chie ; he is convinc't its better that calvinism , & embraces it : then again he reads the works of arius , and convinc't by the energie of his argument● and texts of scripture produced by him , may alter his judgment and become an arian . wherin can you say does this man transgress against the doctrin or principles of the reformation ? does he forsake the reformation because he forsakes lutheranism for calvinism ? no sure ; for calvinism is as much of the reformation as the other : is not protestancy as much the doctrin of the reformation as presbyterie ? tho he changes therefore one for the other , he still holds the doctrin of the reformation : is not the doctrin of the reformation scripture , not as protestants onely , or presbyterians onely interpret it , but as any congregation or man of sound judgment holds it ? it is therefore evident that according the doctrin and principles of the reformation , he may with a safe conscience change religions , and be to day of one , to morrow of an other vntill he runs all ouer . point me out any congregation ( the obstinat papists excepted ) who will dare say , i cannot live with a safe conscience in any other congregation but in it self ; all other congregations will laugh at it ; why then may not i lawfully forsake any congregation , and pass to an other ? and be in england a protestant , in germany a lutheran , in hungarie an antitrinitarian or socinian . ismael . it 's against the grain of mans reason to believe that we can with a safe conscience change religions , as you say : if you be a protestant , and you judge it to be the true religion ; you are bound to stick to it , & neve● to change it . isaac . if i did discourse with a papist i would not wonder he should say it against the g●ain of mans reason t● believe it lawfull ; but i admire tha● a child of the reformation , be he o● what congregation he will , should b● so ignorant of his principles , as to sa● a man cannot change religions whe● he please : nor do i vndertake to prov● against the papist , that this is lawfull but i vndertake to prove it lawfull against any reformed child , or for● him to deny the principles of the r●formation . is it against reason th● a man may read to day scripture , ● the lutherans interpretation vpon i● & like it very well ; & that he shoul● in this case embrace that religion is it against the graine of mans reaso● that this same man should next year● afterwards hit vpon calvins work● vpon scripture , and after better consideration , think his doctrin to surpass that of luther , & could not he then ( being obliged to choose the best ) forsake lutheranism and stick to calvinism ? and is it against mans reason that he in following years may meet other bookes of arians , socinians , &c. & do the like ? have not we many examples of his in our best & most renowned reformers ? did not ochinus that great light ( says b. bale ) in whose presence england was happie , reading scripture judge the reformation to be better then popery , & of a capuchin fryar became à reformed ; after som years reading scripture he judged judaism to be better than the reformation & became a jew : did not martin bacer one of our first reformers of england & composers of our lyturgie , reading scripture , judge lutheranism to be better than popery , & of a dominicā fryar became a lutheran ? soon after reading scripture , he judged zuinglianism to be better than lutheranism , & became a zuinglian ; not long after he became a lutheran again as he confesses , a & forsooke lutheranism the second time , and returned again to zuinglianism as sklusser : says . b did not cranmer one of our fir●t reformers also of england , & composers of the . articles , a wise and religious man profess popery i● henry the viii . time and compose ● book in defence of real presence ; the● in edward the vi. time vpon bette● consideration be professed zuinglianism and writ a book against real pr●sence ; then again in queen mary'● raign , being sentenc'd to death , he declared for popery ; but seeing his recantation could not preserve his life , he renounced popery and dyed a zuinglian . i would tyre your patience i● reading & myne in relating the number of our prime , and most renowne● as well first reformers , as learne● doctors , who without any scruple chā●ed severall times their religions ; no● in te principles of our reformatio● ought they to be blamed : for when our rule of faith is scripture as wit● the assistance of gods spirit we vnderstand it , who doubts but we may t● day judge sincerely luther's sense of i● to be true , to morrow we may rea● with more attention & judge ari●● his sense to be true ; next day that o● calvin , & so of the rest : and do no● think but that we have in england many abettors of this doctrin : alas how many bishops , deans and rich parsōs do we know & haue we known , who were zealous presbyterians and declared enemies of protestancie in our gratious soueraign's exile , and no sooner was he restored , & had bishopricks and ecclesiastical dignities to be giuen but they became stiff protestants . observe the difference betwixt the papists and vs , if of a papist you becom of any other congregation , the popish church excommunicats you ; thou art lookt vpon as an heretic , & apostat , a strayd sheep ; they will not admit you to their communion or lyturgy ; nay could they well auoid you , they would neuer admit you to their companie ; and why ? because they are fondly perswaded their own is the only true religion , and all others to be synagogues of satan ; and if any of vs will become a papist , he must first abiure his former profession : but if of a protestant you should become a presbyterian , a lutheran , quaker or of any other of our societies , you are neuer looked vpon to be a jot the worse for it ; we are not a whit scandalized at such change● which we daily see ; and it is an ● speakable blessing with what acco● vnity and charitie , you may s● at our lyturgie & communion the pr●testant , presbyterian , anabaptis● socinian and hugonot , all praysi● the lord in one congregation in o● churches , none bid out of the churc● none excommunicated , no previo● abjuration required of their form● tenets , & ther 's nothing more f●quent among vs then to go to t● protestant lyturgy in the mornin● in the euening to the presbyteri● especially if our interest or con●niēcie requires it : can there be a m● convincing proofe that we este● it all alike what religion & ten● we profess ? let a lutheran go ● france ; alas ! hee 'l neuer stick to● to the hugonots meeting and seruice let a protestant go to germany , he● go as cheerfully to the luthera● church , as in england to the pr●testant : let a hugonot or presbyteria● go to hungary or poland he is we●com to the antitrinitarians , & soc●nians ; and when any of them retur● home hee 'l be as before . ismael . but can you prove this doctrin by the testimony of any of our synods ? did any teach that we may with a safe conscience change our religion as you say ? isaac . yes i can : the synod of charenton in france held about the yeare . expresly saies that for your salvation it s all alike whether you be a calvinist , lutheran or of any other congregation of the reformed , because says this venerable synod , they all agree in fundamental points , and the lutherans haue nothing of superstition or idolatrie in their manner of divin worship . change then as often as you list ; be a lutheran , be a presbyterian , be an anabaptist , by the mouth of this synod you are assured you 'l never miss to hit right . and i pray can any synod of our times haue more authoritie in point of doctrin than luther our first reformer , a man extraordinarily raised by god ( says the synod of charenton ) and replenisht with his spirit for to repaire the ruins of his church ? he teachs c the elevation of the sacrament is idolatrie , yet he did practise i● and commanded it should be practised i● the church of wittemberg to sp●te th● deuil carolstadius : giuing you t● vnderstand that for just reasons , yo● may teach now one religion , no● an other . zuinglius also whose virtu● and learning is knowen to the work says d that god inspired him to preac● what doctrin was suitable to the times which as it often changes , you ma● often change your doctrin : and consider you if it be not therefore tha● christ our lord saies his yoke is swe●● & his burden light ( that is religio● because we can withdraw our ne●● from it , as time and just reason requires . ismael . could you giue me any s●nod of the church of england whic● deliuers this doctrin , you would g● neere hand to convince me ; for , th● som particular doctors should hau● taught or practis'd it , does not prov● it to be the doctrin of the reformation . isaac . and what greater authoriti● has a synod of england for to prov● a doctrin to be of the reformation than a synod of france which i have produced ? or than luther and zuinglius our first reformers inspired by god to teach vs the puritie of the ghospel ? was it not from luther and zuinglius that england receiued the doctrin of the reformation ? and if england be so bold as to say they erred in this , what assurance can we haue , but that they erred in the rest ? but since nothing will please you but a synod of england , you shall haue not one , but many . can there be any synod in england of so great authoritie as our wise and prudent parliaments ? read our chronicles and you 'l find , that in few years time , they changed and established different religions by publick acts of parliament : in henry the . reigne they voted for popery , and made acts and statuts against the reformation ; in edward the . time they banisht popery and voted for zuinglianism ; in queen mary's they pull'd down this , and sett vp popery again ; in queen elizabeths , they decryed this , and set vp not zuinglianism , but protestancy ; in the midst of her reign , they polisht this , and added som new perfections to it ; in king james and succeeding kings times , protestancy is of a different stamp from that of queen elizabeths : heare doue in his exhort : to the english recusants an . . pag. . henry the had his lyturgie which was very good : edward the . condemned it , and brought in an other composed by peter martir and bucer : in elizabeths time , that was condemned , and an othe● approued , and in the middle of her reign , her lyturgy was also misliked , and ● new one introduced , we are so want●● that nothing will cōtent vs but novelties ▪ ismael . doue does not commen● this doctrin , for he calls that frequent exchange of religion wantonness and loue of noueltie . isaac . it s no great matter what he says of it ; my drift is but to convince you that this is the doctrin ▪ & practise of the best members of our reformation ; euen of england , and if you be convinc't its the doctrin of the reformation ; you cannot deny but that it is good doctrin : if doue calls it wantonness , s. paul ephes . . . coloss . . . & rom. . . commends it , and exhorts vs to put of the old man with its deeds ( that 's popery with its ceremonies ) and put on the new man ( that 's the reformation ) where ther 's neither greek nor iew , circumcision , nor incircumcision , barbarian , or scythian , bound or free , but christ is all and in all : that 's to say ; where ther 's no distinction of protestants or presbyterians , socinians , or arians ; it s all one which religion you profes● . ismael . but is there no tenet of religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold ? isaac . yes there is , and no more but one : we are bound to have faith in iesus christ , son of god and saviour of the world . this is the substance of christian religion ; be an arian , be a presbyterian , be a socinian or what you please , be also plung'd to your ears in wickedness of life , and manners , so you have faith in jesus christ son of god and redeemer of the world and live in charitie you will be a member of the true church and be saved . do not imagin this is any new doctrin invented by me ; search the vulgar sort of our reformed brethren , you shall get thousands of this opinion in our realm ; search the books of our learned drs , you shall find it in them also . dr morton in his much applauded booke dedicated to queen elizabeth , for which he deserved a bishoprick , e says : the arian curch is to be esteemed a true church , because they hold the true substance of christian religiō , which is faith in iesus christ son of god , and redeemer of the world : and again in the same place sect . . whose title , is , heretics are members of the church , he says , whosoeuer believes in iesus christ tho by wickedness of life , or heresy in doctrin they should err in doctrin , they are still true members of the church . therefore our learnd f fox , g doctor field● , and illiricus say the greek church notwithstanding their error in denying the procession of the h. ghost from the son , are holy members of the true church , because they have faith in jesus christ . ismael . sure you will not say this doctrin is of the reformation or can be safely believed . isaac . i do admire how you can doubt of it , and that it may be believed : for what is the doctrin of the reformation but as we have said in our principles , scripture as interpreted by any man of sound judgement in the church ? and were not doctor morton , fox , field and illiricus men of sound judgement , eminent learning , and godlines ? if-therefore this be scripture as interpreted by them how can you deny it to be the doctrin of the reformation ? ismael . and what jesus christ are we obliged to believe in ? for jesus christ as believed by the arians socinians , luther and , calvin , is far different from jesus christ , as commonly believed by the protestans and popish church , we believe in jesus christ the son of god , of one and the same substance and nature with the father ; they believe in a jesus christ , son of god but of a distinct and different nature and substance from the father . isaac . pish ! that 's but a nicetie ; believe what you please , and what you vndestand by scripture to be true and have charitie . ismael . i confess you have puzzled , but yet not wholy convinced me ; were i but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the doctrin of the reformation , j would cheerfully embrace it , and j will be better informed by your self , but not tyre your patience : we will meet again and pursue our discours vpon this subject . ii. dialogue . ismael . reflecting in my solitude vpon your last discours , j find it bottom'd vpon a fals principle ; for you suppose that what euer doctrin is of luther calvin , or any of our learned , drs , synods , parliaments , or congregations , is the doctrin of the reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any reformed child ; who but sees this is ridiculous , to fasten the doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular dr , or congregation vpon the whole body : this is the vncharitable and vnreasonable art of the papists , who keep a great coyl with som exorbitāt opinions of luther and calvin , and would perswade their proselyts , they are the tenets of the reformation ; wheras the reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the pope does : and they do not , poore people , observe how many absurd and scandalous doctrins we meet in their casuists and divins , which when we reproach them with , they answer it s not the doctrin of their church , but of som particular drs ; as if we might not with as much justice as they , answer the same . isaac . your reflection is good , and my discours will fall to ground if i do not prove that principle , which will be no hard task : let vs imagin we are heere a full synod of protestants , presbyterians , hugonots , lutherans , antitrinitarians , anabaptists , quakers , and of all and each of our congregations ; our reformation is not any of these congregations with an exclusion of the rest ; but all of them ioyntly ; for whatsoeuer congregation would say it self alone is the reformation , and no other , would be hiss'd at by the rest ; and iustly ; because that our reformation imports two points essential●y : first a profession of christianitie according the rule of the word of god , and a detestation or abjuration of popish errors ; and none of these congregations but does both . ismael . i know som of these , pharisee like . despise others , and looke upon them , not as ref●rmed , but as putrid members ; but the lord forbid i should be so deuoid of charitie ; i see no just challenge any can have to the title of reformation , which all haue not . isaac . let vs ask this synod by what rule of faith does the reformation walk ? what must a man believe for to be a true reformed ? protestants will say , that scripture and apostolical tradition ; but protestants say of papists ; and presbyterians and anabaptists say of protestants ; that many human inventions are obtruded upon vs as apostolical traditions ; that we have no way to discern the one from the other , and con●●quently tradition , as being an vnknown thing vnto vs , cannot be our rule : others will say that scripture and the indubitable consequences out of it , is our rule , all will grant this : but then enters the controversie , if the consequences of lutherans be such , and if the consequences of presbyterians be indubitable out of scripture , and each congregation will say that their peculiar tenets are indubitable consequences out of scripture , and the rest must allow it to be true , or deny such a congregation to be of the reformation : others will say that scripture and the four first general councils , with the apostles and athanasius's creeds are our rule of faith ; but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first , than the subsequent councils , nor athanasius his creed more than that of trent ; nor will the quakers , socinians and others value the apostles creed . but there is none of all the assembly , who will not admit scripture that 's the pure written word of god , to be a sacred and full rule of faith , because it s replenisht with divin light and all heavenly instruction necessarie for our saluation : and such as ad , as a part of our rule of faith , the apostles or athanasius his creeds , or the four first general councils , they will confess that all they containe is expressed in gods written word , and are but a plainer , or more distinct expression or declaration of the contents of scripture . ismael . truly i must grant you this , that i have been often present at severall discourses of protestants with papists , and never yet could i heare a protestant make councils , tradition , or any thing els the test of their discours but onely scripture ; not but that i could heare them say and pretend in their discourses that apostolical tradition , and the four first councils were for them against popery ; but still their main strength and vltimat refuge was scripture ; for when ever they harp vpon that string of tradition and councils , the papists are visibly too hard for them , and then they run to scripture , than which there is no plus vltra . i have been also often at severall discourses betwixt protestans , presbyterians and our brethren of other congregations , and have observed that the protestant , for to defend his lyturgie , rites and ceremonies of the church of england , and her episcopacy against the others , could never defend himself by scripture alone , and placed his main strength against them in tradition , primitive councils , and ancient fathers , all which the others rejected and reproached the protestant with popery , for making vse of that weapon ; that if thy would stick to those principles as their rule of faith , they must admit many tenets of popery , which they disavow ; that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and rule of faith : and i find by all i could ever well vnderstand , that its the general apprehension and belief of all the reformation , that scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe , and is our sole and adequat rule of faith , and that our recours to tradition , councils , fathers &c. are but shifts of some of our drs. who being non plust in their particular engagements , and sophistries , patch the incoherencie of their discours with these raggs of popery . isaac : i commend your ingenuity , but not that heate which transports you to check our drs for their glosses and particular doctrins vpon scripture , which , as the manna relisht of all sorts of victuals which the eater● fancied , admits several senses according the different spirits and measure of light that god gives to the reader , and it is vndoubtedly the the spirit of the reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best , and not to check others for following this or that as they please : lutherans , protestants , presbyterians , &c. have all for their rule of faith scripture , which each of them interprets in a different sense ; luther for the real , protestants for the figurative presence ; protestants for episcopacy ; presbyterians against it ; and so of others : and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best , yet none , is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it , or deny them to be true children of the reformation ; nay that venerable synod of charenton , as i quoted aboue , has declared that the lutherans , tho opposit to them in their chief tenets , are their beloved brethren and have nothing idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of divin worship : the fundamental reason of all this is , that our rule of faith , is but scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it . ismael . i grant all your discourse as to this particular ; for its certain lutherans will not admit scripture as interpreted by protestants , but as interpreted by themselves ; and so of each other congregation . isaac . if you admit our rule is scripture as each vnderstands it ; then you must grant that our doctrin of the reformation is whateuer doctrin each person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of scripture ; and from this , it appears plainly that my principle wherat you bogl'd is true ; that , whateuer doctrin is professed by any of our congregations , synods ▪ parliaments , drs. or particular dr. of our reformation , is to be truly reputed and esteemed the doctrin of the reformation ; which principle being true ; my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable , that you may change religions , as often as you please , and remain still a true reformed child . ismael . but you haue said that not only the doctrin of each congregation and synod , is the doctrin of the reformation ; but also whateuer any one particular doctor teachs ; and this seems to be very absurd . isaac . it 's not so absurd , as it is true ; i 'l prove by the principles of our reformed church , by the testimonies of our most learned and best drs. and reformers , and by reason and experience that the doctrin of any particular doctor among vs , has as much right to be called and esteemed the doctrin of the reformation , as protestancy , presbytery or lutheranism ; for , what is lutheranism , but the judgment of luther a particular dr , against the whole church of rome ? what is calvinism , but what calvin a particular dr , judged to be the sense of scripture against that same church ? what is quakery , but honest naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon scripture . it s vndeniably the principle of our reformed church , that our rule of faith is scripture as interpreted , not only by synods or congregations , but by any person of sound judgment in the church . no congregation or synod is to vs a rule of faith : because all are fallible ; but gods written word , as each one vnderstands it ; and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any council synod or congregation , wee may safely deny it : therefore our great calvin a saies and proues with great energy of scripture and reason , that we are not obliged to the decisions and doctrin of any council synod or congregation , if after hauing examined scripture , we do not find their interpretation and sense of it , is conformable to the word of god. let synods and congregations say what they will , if any particular doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better , he may stick to it against them all , and be a good true child of the reformation ; as arminius in holland did withstand the synods of dordreet and delpht ; as luther and calvin did against rome . i will be free , saies our vnparalleld proto-apostle luther , b i wil● not submit my self to the authority of councils , church , drs vniuersities or fathers , but will teach and preach whateuer i think to be true . did ever any apostle speake with more courage ? and the blessed man acted with no less ; he knew full well the whole stream of antiquity , drs , fathers and councils were against him , as he confesses himself , and dit not care a rus● for them all : lay aside , saies he , c ● arms of orthodox antiquity , of school● of diuinity , authority of fathers , councils , popes , and consent of ages we receiue nothing but scripture ; but s● that we must haue the authority of interpreting it . nor was it only luther and calvin spoke thus , but all our first blessed reformers ; and why ? because our rule of faith is scripture , not a interpreted by the church of england , ( france will not admit it ) nor as interpreted by the quakers , ( the anabaptists and independents will not heare it ) nor as interpreted by luther ▪ ( calvin rejects it ) nor as interpreted by calvin ( thorndic and bramhal will not yield to it , ) nor will stillingfleet stand to their interpretation ; nor others to that of stillingfleet . finally our rule of faith is scripture , not as interpreted by any , but as each congregation synod , particular dr , or man of sound judgment interprets it ; and consequently what ever doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of scripture , is to be esteemed the doctrin of the reformation ; and you may safely believe it , if you like it , and remain still as truely a reformed child , as the proudest protestant of england . ismael . can you prove that our rule of faith is scripture as any particular dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it ? isaac . behold how convincingly ; first wee have heard luther , quoted but now , say , we receive nothing but scripture , but so as that we must have the authority for t● interpret it : hear him again ; d th● governors and pastors haver powe t● teach ; but the sheep must give thei● judgment whether they propose the voy● of christ , e or of strangers . and again : christ has taken from the bishops councils and pastors the right of judging of doctrin ; and given it to all christians i● general ; and the rule is scripture ● each one will think fit to interpret i● and consequently to this , wee hav● heard him say aboue , i will be fi● and will not submit to drs councils , ● pastors , but will teach whatever think to be true . barlow ; f the apostles have given to each particular t● right and power of interpreting a● judging by his inward spirit , what i● true ; its needless that either man ● angel , pope or council should instru● you ; the spirit working in the heart , an● scripture are to each particular person mo● assured interpreters . bilson bishop o● wincester saies the same , g the peopl● must be discerners and judges of wha● is taught . our religion has no othe● rule of faith ( saies our french reformation by the mouth of dumoulin , h drelincourt , and the holy synod of charenton ) but the written word of god , as interpreted by vs. lastly saies the church of england in the th . art. of their . we have no other rule of faith but scripture as each person of sound judgment in the church vnderstāds it , and what is proved by it : and again in the catholic doctrin of the church of england pag. . which is but an exposition of the . articles . our rule of faith is but scripture as each person of sound judgment in the church vnderstands it : authority is given to the church and to each person of sound judgment in it , to judge in controversies of faith ; and this is not the privat judgment of our church , but also of our brethren of forreign countries ismael . j confess , not only these , but many other drs abet your discourse , and the general vogue of our reformation , is for scripture as each one vnderstands it ; but alas ! you see well , that wee can never settle any religion or church by such a rule of faith . isaac . you can never settle any but rhis , that every man may without le● or hinderance believe what he please : and why should not this be a good religion ? if scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our rule of faith ; if we must be constrained to believe scripture not as wee vnderstand it ; but as it is vnderstood by this or that congregation ; wh● difference betwixt vs and papists ▪ they must believe scripture as interpreted by the pope , and council● have ever so much light from god be ever so wise and witty , you mu● depose your own judgment , a● submit to that of the pope , counci● and popish church : to this pass ● are come also ; wee must believe t● kings supremacie , episcopacy , f●gurative presence tho perhaps we d● not judge by scripture it be tr● doctrin ; wee are constrained by penal laws , and acts of parliament t● believe them , as papists by the inquisition ; and why ? because th● church of england vnderstands b● scripture , its true ; and if you , repl● you do not interpret scripture s● you 'l not be heard ; you must submi● and believe against your judgment : and what 's this but plain popish tyrany ouer mens consciences ? did luther and calvin forsake the pope and councils , for to submit their judgments to any other ? no , but to follow scripture as each one of them vnderstood it : and tho luther was a man raysed by god and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the church ; yet calvin did no more submit to him , than luther did to the pope ; nor did zuinglius submit to calvin , but followed his own sense of scripture ; nor did oecolampadius submit to zuinglius ; but every one searched the scripture , believed and taught what they thought to be true ; and thus we became a reformation of popery : if therefore we will continue a reformation , and walk by the spirit of our first blessed reformers ; wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of scripture : we must believe whateuer we think to be true , and have no other rule of faith but scripture as each one vnderstands it . ismael . and what then ? what do you inferr from this discourse ? isaac . this consequence , that wheras no true child of the reformation , be he of what congregation you will , can justly deny our rule of faith to be scripture as any person of sound judgment interprets it ; it follows vnauoidably that the doctrin of the reformation is , whatever any person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of scripture , and whatever luther , calvin , beza , or any other of sound judgment in the reformation , since its first ryse vntill this day , taught to be the true sense of scripture , is to be called and esteemed the doctrin of the reformation , tho to others of this or that congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous doctrin ▪ and now let me answer to an objection you made against this principle in our entrance to this discourse : you objected that many papish drs and casuists delivered scandalous and base doctrins , which the papists will not admit to be the doctrin of their church , tho deliverd by papish drs ; and thence you pretended , that the particular sentiments of privat drs of the reformation are not to be called the doctrin of our church . but be pleased to observe the difference betwixt popery and our reformation ; the rule of faith in popery is , scripture as interpreted by the pope and council , or their church ; they will admit no other ; consequently no doctrin is to be called popery but what is judged by the pope and his church or council to be the sense of scripture ; and if any dr or universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs ; it is to be called the doctrin of that particular person , and not the doctrin of the popish church ; because their rule of faith is not scripture as interpreted by any person of sound judgment ; but as interpreted by their pope and council . but wheras our rule of faith in the reformation , is scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it ; whatever doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of scripture , is justly to be called the doctrin of the reformation : for example , melancton , a man of sound judgment , great learning , and of an vpright conscience , taught bigamy to be the doctrin of scripture ; beza taught , the lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals , as well as in bread and wine : calvin taught , that christ despaired on the cross , and suffered the pains of hell after his death : why then , let all the bishops and universities of england condemn this doctrin ; let all the synods of france and germany decry it ; the doctrin will be still of the reformation ; because its scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment . ismael . the heate of your discourse has tyred you ; and my memorie i● sufficiently loaden with what yo● have said ; let me digest it in my privat retirement , and wee will mee● again . isaac . content ; carrie with yo● these three points , which i have proved convincingly : first our rule of faith is scripture , not as interpreted by this or that , but by an● man of sound judgment ; secondly i● follows hence that the doctrin of th● reformation , must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture : thirdly it follows , wee may change religions as often as wee please . iii. dialogue . ismael . i remember well the summary of your last discourse , given me in three points ; and i find the second to be absurd , and repugnant to reason : you 'l neuer perswade it , tho you have pleaded for it with great energy ; what ? if a silly woman , cobler , or other tradesman reade scripture and giue their sense of it , that , forsooth , must be called the doctrin of the reformation ? and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the doctrin of the whole church ? isaac . do not limit gods infinit goodness , by measuring his mercies towards his creatures with your narrow apprehensions : take notice he saies , he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones : i confess vnto you father , that you have hid thes● things from the wise and prudent , and hast revealed them to the little ones . and therefore he choosed poore simple fishermen to be his apostles : ● know it 's the practise of papists , and from them your church of england borrows it , to despise the ministeri● of women , tradesmen , and illitera● people in preaching teaching and interpreting scripture ; but s. paul tell vs the word of god is not bound that's to say , is not entayl'd on th● learned , rich , or great ones , the wind bloweth where it listeth : o● bishops and ministers would make ● monopoly of the word of god , and have themselves to be the only retailers of it ; for to have som plausible title for to enjoy great rents and sheare the flock : but wee have seen , as well among the quakers , a● in other congregations , filly women and tradesmen replenisht with gods spirit , preach and expound the great misteries of our religion with as much of good success and edification of the auditory , as any penny-booke man in england . ismael . it seems you approue the ministerie of women and silly tradesmen for preaching and teaching the flock ; and if so , you 'l ouerthrow our hierarchy of bishops and ministers . isaac . it matters not much for you to know , what i approve or condemn ; but to know what the doctrin of the reformation is ; it 's this ; that none can teach , preach , administer sacraments , or exercise ecclesiastical functions if he be not in holy orders , bishop , minister or deacon ; for the church of england teachs it , and you may believe it if you please . you may also deny it ; and say , any woman or tradesman has as much power for to preach and administer the sacraments as the richest bishop in england : this also is the doctrin of the reformation as well as the former , because quakers ▪ presbyterians , brownists ; anabaptists , &c. believe and teach it , and they are men of as sound judgments , and as good reformeds as protestants ; nay the most learned of our reformers teach and commend the power of women for to exercise spiritual functions , and administer the sacraments : a saumaise , peter martyr , and b zuinglius expresly defend the priesthood as well of women as of men : and luther proves it efficaciously ; the first office of a priest saies he , is to preach , c this is common to all , euen women ; the second is to baptize ; which is also common to women ; the third is to consecrat the bread and wine , and this also is common to all as well as to men and in the absence of a priest , a woma● may absolve from sins as well as the pope , because the words of christ , whateu●● yee shall vntye on earth , shall be vntyed in heauen , were said to all christians . and when so eminent men ha● not said it , reason and scripture convinces it ; reason , because that our rule of faith being scripture a● each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , many women vndoubtedly are of sound judgment , and why should not their interpretation of scripture pass for the doctrin of the reformation , as well as that of our bishops and ministers : scripture , because wee reade the samaritan woman was the first who preached the messias to the cittie of sama●ia , and christ commanded mary magdalen to go to preach his resurrection to his disciples , and wee know by our cronicles that our glorious queen elizabeth of blessed memory , did not only gouern the state , but was a great apostoless in church affaires . ismael . to what purpose then , have wee bishops and ministers , who enjoy so vast reuenews , if any man or woman can preach and administer the sacraments as well as they . isaac . you may believe , bishops and ministers are very needfull for the service of the church ; for they being commonly learned witty men , and having wyves , they come to instruct their wyves so well , that the good women com in a short time to be as learned as their husbands , and as nimble and quick in the ecclesiastical ministeries as they , if they were permitted to exercise them ; as som authors of credit relate vnto vs , that a gentleman of constance , writ to his friend in a village ( about thre● leagues distant from that cittie , whose inhabitants were for the mos● part of our lutheran reformation the good pastor exhorted his floc● to prepare for easter communion and that none should presume t● come to the holy table , but shoul● first confess and receive absolutio● of his sins : easter holy dayes bein● come , such a multitude flockt to confession , that the pastor could not satisfie the devotion of so great a cro● he called his wife to help him , f● to hear confessions , and give absolutions , in wich ministerie the goo● lady did labour with great satisfaction of the penitents ; but neith● the pastor nor his virtuous conso● being able to dispatch so great a multitude , he called his maide servant who did work in the holy minister with as much expedition as her master . but for all this , the church o● scotland , france and all england ( protestants excepted ) will tell yo● that bishops and ministers are no● needfull ; nay that they are very prejudicious to the reformation and state ; to the reformation , because this hierarchy with the bishops court , surplices corner caps , and other trumperies , puts the flock in mind of popery , wherof its a perfect resemblance ; and whylst the papists see our change from them , comes to be almost no more but to substitute new priests and bishops in their own place , for to manage more conscienciously the rents and reuenews which they profanely abused ; and that those rents and revenews are still in the hands of an ecclesiastical hierarchie ; they live in hopes of recovering them som day , when our bishops and ministers will come to be as bad ●tewards of them as they were ; and ●hat the flock will be weary of them , ●nd call back the ancient possessors : ●ts therefore perhaps the emissaries ●f the pope do incessantly blow in ●ur eares ; how ill our ecclesiastical ●evenews are bestowed , for to main●ain wyves and children , pomp and ●anitie of bishops and ministers ; no ●ess than in popery . to the state , they seem to be prejudicious , whera● any but a bishop or minister , would think , it would be more advantagiou● to the common-wealth , that the king should have those revenews for to maintain his fleet and armie , and eas● thereby the subjects of subsidies an● taxes , than that a handfull of bishop and ministers should have them specially when others can preach an● teach as well as they , for nothing , b● the pleasure of being hea●d . ismael . but do not you see it woul● be a sacriledge that the king shoul● deprive the clergy of their churc● revenews . isaac . and do not you know , th● almost all our congregations do hol● our clergy to be no true clergy , b● as meer laymen as you or i ; the admit no clergy or episcopal car●cter ; but elders chosen by the co●gregation : and if they be no tr● clergy , they have no right to th● church revenews , and it s no sacr●ledge to deprive them of them . th● popish clergy in henry the vii time , had visibly a greater right ● them , than ours now have : s● neither the king himself nor any other did doubt of their right , and now most of our congregations , do absolutly deny any right in our clergy to those rents ; because they are no clergy : yet none will be so bold , as to accuse henry the viii . of sacriledge , for hauing taken the church liuings from them , for to put them to better vse . and why should wee dare say , our king would commit any , for depriving our clergy of those rents : believe he can lawfully do it ; or believe he can not , you 'l be still a good child of the reformation . believe what you please . ismael . this is a ticklish point ; let 's leaue it to the consideration of our wise and prudent parliament ; and be pleased to answer to my doubt ; how can wee live in peace and tranquillitie in religion , if our rule of faith be scripture as each one vnderstands it : i remember a discourse started in the house of lords , not many yeares agon , by his grace the duke of buckingam ; he desired to know , what was it to be a protestant ; wherin did protestancy properly consist ? the bishops , who were present looked one vpon an other , and whether , they feared the difficultie of the question , or that for modesty's sake , each expected to hear an other speake first● they stood sylent for a whyle ; at last the yce was broken by one ; others followed ; but hardly any two agreed ; and all that the duke could gather out of their several answers , was that our rule of faith , was scripture as each one vndestood it ; and protestancy nothing but scripture as interpreted by the parliament and church of england : whervpon he concluded , wee are these hundred yeares very busy for to settle religion , and for ought i perceive , wee are as vnsettled now as at the beginning : and truly he had great reason ; for , religion and faith is nothing else , but that sense of scripture , which each person of sound judgment vnderstands ; and as it 's impossible wee should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the text , so its impossible wee shall euer be settled and agree in religion . isaac . the reason of our vnsettlement hitherto and at present , is the violent efforts , what by persecutions , acts of parliaments , and other oppressions ; what by invectives , intrigues , and cabals of the church of england , to draw all to be protestants ; of the presbyterians , to make vs deny episcopacy ; and of each other congregation , to force vs to their respective tenets : and whylst this constraint and severity is vsed against mens consciences , it s in vain to expect peace or settlement in our reformed church : but let vs follow our rule of faith ; let cach one believe as in his conscience he best vnderstands scripture ; let vs all believe what wee please , and be permitted so to do ; and wee shall without doubt enjoy perfect peace and tranquillity : believe you figurative presence , if you will ; let the lutheran believe his real presence , if he likes it ; and let me believe no presence at all , if i judge ther 's none ; why will not you permit me to follow that rule of faith which the whole reformation , euen the church of england gives me in her . articles , scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it . to say , wee can neuer have settlement in religion , whylst this arbitrary interpretation of scripture is permitted , is to speake like a papist : this the pope and papists said to our first blessed reformers ; and the popish church saies this day to vs ; that wee ought to submit our judgments to the church and councils ; that wee ought not to believe what sense wee think to be true , but what the pope and councils propose vnto vs ; and if luther and our other reformers did not do ill , in follwing their own sense and interpretation of scripture against all the world , why do you blame me or any other for following their example ? ismael . when you speake of our reformation and congregations , i heare you reckon the arians , socinians , and antitrinitarians among them ; sure you do not belieue they , or such like ancient condemned hereticks , were of the reformation ; for wee protestants do believe the mystery of the trinity against them , and will never own them to be our brethren . isaac . and , do not you believe episcopacy against the presbyterians ; som canonical books against the lutherans ; supremacy against the quakers , and infants baptism against the anabaptists ; and yet you own them as your brethren and godly congregations of the reformation ; or if you will deny them , they will also scorn you , and say they are more of the reformation than you are ; and why will not you own the arians , &c. as your brethren tho you believe the trinitie against them ? you say they are old condemn'd heretiks : and does this language becom a child of the reformed church ? by whom were they condemn'd ? was it not by the popish church , which also condemns vs , and saies wee are as much hereticks as they ; and as wee ought not to be so called , and judge the pope and councils sentence against vs to be bold , vncharitable , and injust ; so wee must say of the arians , pelagians and others condemn'd by them . you saie protestants will never own them to be their brethren ; god forbid the protestant church should be so vncharitable to their fellow christians , and so injust to themselves . b. morton , ) as i cited in my first dialogue ) as learned a man a● the church of england bred , saies the arian church is a true church , and will say no less of the others : but what need wee the testimonie of any , for what reason so convincingly proves ; they who walk by one and the same rule of faith , are of one and the same religion , therefore lutherans , protestants , presbyterians and independents do esteem themselves to be of the same faith and religion , because they all have the same rule , which is scripture ● each congregation vnderstands it also notwithstanding the difference and varietie of congregations in popery ; they hold all but one faith as they say ; because they have al● but one rule of their beliefe , whic● is their infallible pope and church but it 's evident that those which yo● call , ancient condemned hereticks , have one and the same rule of faith with our reformation ; for ours is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; without any obligation of holding the sense of it delivered by pope , church , councils or any other ; therefore our first blessed reformers did not care what sense of it , the church or pope did hold when they began to preach the purity of the ghospel ; but each of them interpreted it as he thought fit in the lord , and so purged the church of many errors : this is the very self same rule of faith , which arians , pelagians , nestorians , and others , peremptorily condemned by rome as hereticks , did follow and walk by : each of them read and interpreted scripture , preached and believed what sense of it they tought to be true , tho they knew it was against the doctrin of the church , looking on scripture alone as their rule of faith , without any regard of the pope , church , councils , or fathers : the church of rome proud and impatient of any opposition , condemned them as hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her ; for takeing scripture as they vnderstood it , and not as the church and councils vnderstood it , for their rule of faith ; and if this be a crime , wee are as guiltie as they ; wee are equally nocent or innocent ; wee are both hereticks , or none is ; wee are therefore concern'd in their honor and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the common enemy which is the pope● they were reformers of the church in their times , as wee are in ours and wheras thy have the same rul● of faith ; so they have the same religion with the reformation . ismael . then , you will say ari●nism is the doctrin of the reform●tion , and wee may lawfully believe i● isaac . i say god's unitie in nature and trinity in persons is th● doctrin of the reformation , becaus● the protestant , lutheran , and h●gonot church , judge by scripture i● is true ; and if you judge also b● scripture it s the true doctrin , yo● may believe it : i say also if yo● judge by scripture this mystery is not true , you may safely deny it according the principles of the reformation , and be still as good a member of the reformed church , as they who believe it ; for whoeuer believes what he judges by scripture to be true , is a true reformed : and , that the denyal of the trinitie is as much the doctrin of the reformation as the belief of it ; it appears not only because it was the doctrin of the arians , who as i proved are truly of the reformed church ; but because it was taught by the greatest ligths of our church : d calvin saies the text , my father is greater than i , must be vnderstood of christ , not only as he is man , but also as he is god. and that the council of nice did abuse the text : e my father and i are one , for to prove the vnity of both in nature ; wheras it only signifies their vnity by conformity of will. again he saies epist . . ad polon . in tract . theol. pag. . that prayer , holy trinity one god have mercy of vs , is barbarous , and does not please me . and ads f the son has his own substance distinct from the father . his disciple danaeus g saies , it s a foolish insipid prayer : and our great apostle luther ( who as fox witnesseth , was the chariot and conductor of israel , and a man extraordinarily raised and replenisht with gods spirit , to teach the purity of the ghospel ) caused that prayer to be blotted out of the litanies . h that word trinity , saies he , sounds coldly ; my soule hates that word homousion , and the arian did well in not admitting it . lastly ochinus that great oracle of england impugns this mysterie with a strong discourse : i wee are not obliged to believe , saies he , more than the saints of the ancient testament , otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs ; but they were not obliged to believe this mystery ; therefore we are not obliged . examin i pray the works of these eminent drs. where i quote them ; consider if they be not , not only men of sound judgment , but men extraordinarily raised by god , ( saies the synod of charenton ; the chariots and conductors of israel , saies fox : men to be reverenc'd after christ , saies our dr powel , and apostolical oracles sent to teach vs the purity of the ghospell ; and conclude , it s an vndeniable veritie that this is the doctrin of the reformation , wheras it's scripture as interpreted by such men : o! but england france and scotland believes this mysterie ; well ? and what then ? that proves that the mysterie is also the doctrin of the reformation , because whateuer any man of sound judgment thinks to be scripture , is its doctrin ; but is england or france alone the whole reformation ? are not luther , caluin , danaeus , ochinus as well of the reformation ; and men of as sound judgment as they ? since therefore they vnderstand by scripture ther 's no trinitie , it s the doctrin of the reformation also that ther 's none : believe it or deny it , which you like best , and you 'l be still of the reformed church . ismael . by the principle you run vpon , you may say any blasphemy is the doctrin of the reformation ; for ther 's hardly any so execrable , but som dr of ours has delivered and taught it . isaac . the principle i run vpon is this , scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it , is our rule of faith : judge you , if that be not a good principle in our reformed church ; wheras this is the rule of faith given vs by the . articles and generally by all our drs as i proved in my first dialogue : this being our rule of faith and reformed doctrin , its evident , that whatever doctrin is judged by any person of sound judgment to be contained in scripture , is the doctrin of our reformation : som persons of sound judgement say the real presence is expressed by scripture ; this therefore is the doctrin of the reformation ; others say , only figurative presence is taught in scripture ; this also is the doctrin of the reformation ; som vnderstand by scripture , there is a mysterie of the blessed trinitie ; this therefore is the doctrin of the reformation ; others vnderstand ther 's no such mysterie ; this also is the doctrin of the reformation : so that whether you believe or deny this or any other tenet controverted , you 'l still hold the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . calvin k saies christ prai'd vnaduisedly , the eve of his passion ; that he vttered words wherof he was afterward sorry , that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides , that ouerwhelm'd with desperation , he desisted from invoking god , which was to renunce all hopes of salvation : and saies he , l if you object us absurd and scandalous to affirm christ despaired , i answer , this desperation proceeded from him as he was man , not as he was god. and this is not only the doctrin of calvin , but of brentius , m marlotus , n jacobus minister ( quoted by bilson ) and of beza ▪ will you say this is the doctrin of the reformation , or that wee can without scruple believe it ? also calvin saies , o that ch●ist's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem vs , but that after hauing despaired on the cross , he suffered the death of his soule ; that 's to say , that his soule after his corporal death , suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell . and saies he in the same place , they are but ignorant doltish brutish men , who will deny it . luther also teachs the same doctrin : p as he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the body , so it seems he suffered afterward the death of his soule in hell : epinus q a learned lutheran saies , christ descended into hell for thee , and suffered not only corporal death , but the death and fire of hell . mr. fulk and parkins avow this is also the express doctrin of illiricus , latimer and lossius . also lurher r most impiously affirms , that not only the human nature of christ dyed for vs , but also his divin nature : see luther's words quoted at large by zuinglius , ſ and hospinian : t if you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed , you will render you● christianitie suspected ; and if yo● say , that they are the doctrin of th● reformation , or that they may be believed according the principles ● the reformation ; you will make th● reformation and its principles t● be hated by any good christian . isaac . if i walk by the rule o● faith of the reformation , i 'l prove my self a true reformed child ; and if i prove my self to be a reformed child , my christianity cannot be justly suspected . what tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals ▪ but has been judged by those eminent drs. of our reformation to be express scripture , or conformable to scripture ; and since our rule of faith is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , and since the doctrin of our reformation is but whatever any such person of sound judgment , judges to be expressed in , or proved by scripture ; its evident that all those tenets are vndeniably the doctrin of the reformation : i say then , and will say without any offence to my christianity , or blemish to our reformed church ; that those tenets are the doctrin of the reformation and may be as safely believed by any child of it , as figurative presence , supremacy , or two sacraments : and let not any bigot pretend to freghten me from this doctrin by calling it blasphemy and impiety ; no , its scripture as interpreted by our renowned reformed doctors ; therefore it s no blasphemy : let any man convince me , that our rule of faith must not be scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the doctrin of the reformation ; but whylst that principle and rule of faith stands vnshaken , nothing that is taught by any person of sound judgment to be the doctrin of scripture , but is to be called our doctrin , and may be safely believed . you say that whoeuer has any loue for christianity , will hate the reformation and its principles , if they give libertie for to believe such blasphemies : but , can any mother be more indulgent to her child than the reformation is to vs ? such as think those tenets to be blasphemies , the reformation gives them leave not to believe them ; and if any judges by scripture , that they are not blasphemies but pure doctrin ; as luther , calvin and others did , they have liberty for to believe them . he who denyes them , cannot in charity check them who believe them ; nor can they who believe them , check those who deny them , wheras each follow our rule of faith , and believe what they judge by scripture to be true . and if you or your church of england cry out blasphemy , blasphemy , against all that you judge to be fals ; why do not you cry blasphemie against presbyterians , lutherans and other congregations from whom you dissent ? and what difference betwixt you and the church of rome ? the folly of this is to call heresy and blasphemy all that is not her own doctrin : and all that your church of england mystikes , must be fanaticism , blasphemy , and impiety ? must our rule of faith be scripture as the church of england vnderstands it , and not otherwise ? presbyterians and lutherans will neuer allow it : if therefore our rule of faith be scripture as each person vnderstands it ; any person of sound judgment in the reformation , may without scrupule believe what he vnderstands to be the doctrine of scripture . iv. dialogue . ismael . you still insist vpon that principle that our rule of faith , is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; and from that principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of piety and religion . isaac . that principle is not invented by me ; it s of our holy reformation ; if j did discourse with a papist j would prove the principle to be true and gods express word ; but since j discourse with a reformed child , j suppose , and not spend my time in proving it : this principle then , being an vnquestionable truth in our reformation , no reformed child must be so irreverent and bold as to say , that any doctrin which cleerly and vnauoidably follows out of it , is blasphemous or impious , for that would be to condemn our principle by which we walk : ex vero non sequitur nisi verum : from a true principle nothing can follow but true doctrin : can you deny , but this was the rule of faith and principle of our first blessed reformers , and of the church of england mentioned in her . articles ? if therefore they judged , and if any other judges by that rule and principle , that those tenets which you call impious and blasphemous be true doctrin ; they cannot be blamed for believing them . ismael . i confess our first reformers did speake so , but j say such errors and impious doctrins cannot without irreverence be called the doctrin of the reformation and cannot without impiety be belieued ; because our reformation , at present condemns and detests those blasphemies , for we must grant , that our reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of doctrin ; god began it by luther , caluin , zuinglius and others : those great men ha their fraylties ; they did ouerlash in som things ; and what they said amiss , gods heavenly spirit inspired to the church from time to time to correct it , and has at length brought our church to that purity of doctrin , and fullness of perfection which now it enjoyes : nothing is to be called now the doctrin of the reformation , but what is now believed by our congregations , and none of them believes those execrable tenets you related . isaac . you wrong the reformation very much , in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning , it s rather to be thought , that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing years with new perfections , and correcting the first draught of it by our first reformers , has been a corruption of it with som mixture o● popish errors and superstitions : for all religious congregations , and pretenders to piety , are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection , and in progress of years they decline and decay from their primitive spirit into errors and corruption of manners : religious congregations are not like arts and sciences , wihich by tyme and experience receive new perfefections ; but like chimnies , which grow dayly blacker by continual smoke and fire : witness the jewish church and law , in its beginning , florishing and holy , but corrupted in progress of time by traditions of men and superstitions of pharisees : witness also the law of the ghospell in those happy tymes of the apostles , holy and pure , but corrupted after som years by errors of popery : jf wee be to seek for the pure and orthodox doctrin of the primitive church ; ought not we to be said by the apostles , men raised extraordinaryly by god and replenisht with his spirit to teach vs the ghospell ? and if wee be to seek for the pure and orthodox doctrin of the reformation , ought not wee to be said rather by luther , calvin , melancton , zuinglius , beza and our other first reformers , than by a few ministers and bishops of england , who , tho they be wise and pious men , yet they are not of that stamp as the others . and if our present congregations presume to correct them , and say they ouerlasht in their doctrin ; will not the papists say ; if they have been such scandalous masters and fals teachers , why did you receive their reformation , and as they erred so grosly in such prime articles of christianity , why do not you feare and suspect , they have also erred in the rest ? secondly the papists will say , if as they reformed vs , you reform them ; then you must expect and permit that others may reform you ; and forsake your doctrin , as you forsake theirs . ismael . i wish you could make out , that the reformation was in its full perfection in its beginning ; had you read som writers of ours ; perhaps you would judge otherwise ; a musculus , a learned lutheran writes thus , thus it is with vs at present , that if any be desirous to see a great rabble of knaues turbulent spirits , deceitfull persons , coseners and debauch men , let him go to a ci●ty where the ghospel is purely preached , and he shall find them by multitudes ; for its more manifest than the day light , that never were there more vnbridled and vnruly people among the turks and other infidels than the professors of the reformed ghospel . b luther himself saies as much ; the world grows dayly worse , and men are now more covetous , revengefull , and lycentious than they were in popery . mr. stubs c sayes no less : after my travells round about all england , i found the people in most parts proud , malicious , ambitious and careless of good works : mr richard geferie in his sermon at st. pauls cross printed in : . i may freely speake what i have plainly seen , that in flanders ●ever was there more drunkness , in italy more wantonnes● , in lury more hypocrisy , in turkie more impiety ; in tartary more iniquity , than is practis'd generally in england , and particularly in london . certainly our reformation at present deserues a better caracter ; never did the alehouses and taverns complain more heauily of want of trading ; which is a proof of our sobriety : the churches which we see a building in london , is a good testimony of piety ; and we are so farr from any smack of hypocrisy , that you shall not see in all london the least appearance of virtue so hiddenly its kept from mortal eyes , but what you may meet in our honests quakers . isaac . i confess our congregations as now they are , are very good both in doctrin and manners ; but i say also , that the doctrin and manners of our reformation at its first beginning was as pure , as holy , and as true as now it is , or ever it will be . nay supposing and granted , their manners and doctrin were so corrupt as those drs. mention ; i say that amidst all those vices , their life was as holy , innocent , blamless and pure as yours is now : and that you may be convinc't of this truth , know that calvin expressy teachs : d wee belieue , the sins of the faithfull ( he means of the reformation ) are but venial sins ; not but that they deserve death , but because there is no damnation for the children of grace , in as much as their sins are not imputed to them ; and again e he saies , wee can assure ourselves , wee can no more be damn'd for any sins , than iesus-christ himself . luther f is of the same opinion , as nothing but faith doth justifiy vs , so nothing but incredulity is a sin . again g no sin is so great that it can condemn a man ; such as are , damn'd are damn'd only for their incredulitie : whitaker , h no sin can hurt a man who has faith . the same is taught by wotten , fulk , tindal , and beza . it s therefore the doctrin of scripture , as interpreted by these persons of great and sound judgment , that incests , murthers , intemperance or whateuer else you call a sin ( incredulitie excepted ) either is no sin at all , or but venial sins , which do no harm , nor cannot damn the children of the reformation ; if therefore our brethren lived in the beginning of the reformation , as those authors relate ; they liued according scripture as interpreted to them by men of sound judgment , and this being our rule of faith and manners , they did not ill but very well in following it . ismael . they were men of the reformation , its true , who taught these errors , and dissolution of life and good manners ; in so much they swerued from the spirit holyness and purity of the reformation , and must not be believed nor commended : looke vpon the reformation as now it is , and you will not find any such scandalous doctrin or corruption of manners . isaac . they were not only men of the reformation ; but the greatest oracles of it , which you will not match with any of our present congregations ; and it s not pardonable in any reformed child to say , such oracles extrordinarily raised by god to teach the purity of the ghospel , should have taught either errors in doctrin , or dissolution of manners : they taught what in their conscience they vnderstood by scripture to be true ; if you will not be so irreverent as to say that they were knaves , who spoke and taught against their conscience and kno●ledge . therefore they taught the doctrin of the reformation purely and truly : the consequence is euident● for , what is the doctrin of the reformation , but what wise learned men of sound judgment think and vnderstand by scripture to be true ? why is figuratiue presence the doctrin of the reformation , tho denied by lutherans , ( who are reformed also ) but because wise learned men judge by scripture as they vnderstand it , it s the true doctrin ? or can you give me any other rule of faith , by which wee may know what doctrin is of the reformation , and what not , but scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ? or what rule can you give for to know what is good or euil to be don , but scripture as vnderstood b● such persons : if therefore luther , calvin and the other drs. j quoted judge by scripture that doctrin , and manner of life to be true and good ; why may not wee say its the doctrin of the reformation : if you or the church of england , or scotland judge that doctrin to be false , and that manner of life to be a dissolution and corruption of manners : why ; you are men of sound judgment , you vnderstand scripture so ; that will be the doctrin also of the reformation , you may believe it : but you must not deny that luther and calvins doctrin also is of the reformation , because they were men of as sound a judgmen as you . you transgress haynously against modestie in saying those sacred organs of god swerued from the spirit and holyness of the reformation ; which hauing no other rule of faith but scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; it 's spirit and holyness consist in framing our life and doctrin to that rule , as our blessed reformers and reformation in its beginning did ; believing those tenets , which you call errors and blasphemy ; and liuing that life which you call dissolution and corruption of manners ; because they judge by scripture , as they vnderstood it , that doctrin and manner of life was true , innocent and good ; and if you like it as they did , you may believe , and liue as they did , and be a good child of the reformation : consider i pray all the works and doctrin of luther , ( the like i say of our other first reformers ) the three parts of his doctrin is against popery , and they say , all are heresies and blasphemies ; the rest is contrary to the church of england , and she saies , this is also errors and blasphamie , so you conspire with the papists to destroy the credit of our first and best reformer ; and betwixt you both , you vnplume him of all his feathers , and leaue him not a bit of good doctrin . but i will stand to the spirit , and principles of the reformation and congregations as now they are , since that you do so much boast of its purity and great perfections ; and i will prove that doctrin , and manner of life , may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its principles : for if the spirit of the reformation be at present among vs , wee must not be forced , as in popery to believe against our proper judgments , what others believe by scripture to be ttue and holy ; but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such ; because even now at present , our rule of faith , is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , and this is the same rule which luther and the reformation in its beginning had : this holy libertie is the best iewel , the greatest perfection , and most glorious prerogative the reformation has : if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture , that he can marry ten wyves at a time ; that he can kill his owne son as abraham intended ; that he may commit incest with his own daughter , as lot did ; that there is no sin but incredulity , as luther believed ; nor any mysterie of the trinitie of persons in one nature , as calvin believed : with what justice can the church of england say a man does not believe and live as becometh a reformed child , or that his doctrin and life is scandalous ? wheras he lives and believes as he vnderstands by scripture he may or ought to do , which is the rule of faith of the reformation , even of the church of england ? the church of england saies , the lutheran doctrin of the real presence , is not the doctrin of scripture ; that the presbyterian doctrin against episcopacy , is not the doctrin of scripture ; that the anabaptist doctrin against infants baptism , is not of scripture ; and yet you permit them all to live in peace ; you confess they are true children of the reformation , tho dissenters from you ; why ? because they follow scripture as they vnderstand it , and this is our rule of faith : and why will not you say , the belief and life of that other man is also of the reformation , tho absurd it may seem to you ; since he believes and lives as he judges by scripture he may : it follows therefore plainly that this is the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . i confess our rule of faith in the reformation , is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it : but you cannot doubt but that its needfull to moderat and curb this libertie , or it may run too farr : for if every man be lycenc't to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according scripture ; as there is no doctrin so execrable but som ignorant reader may hit vpon a text , which , ill vnderstood , may seem to favor it ; so there will be none but may be believed , and called the doctrin of the reformation : for example beza i teaches , ( and saies its also the doctrin of calvin , saumaize and geneve , ) that the lords supper may belawfully administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread , and wine ; in eges , flesh , fish , &c. where there is no bread and wine , saies he , wee may duly celebrat , if insteed of them , we vse , what wee vsually eate and drink . and again in the same place ; if there be no water at hand , and that baptism ' cannot be with edification differed i would baptize in any other liquor : isaac . and why should not it be lawfull to any reformed to believe this , wheras its scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment ? but i do not in any wise like that opinion of yours and of the church of england , that its convenient to limit and curb mens judgments least they may run too farr : this is the policy of rome ; they will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of scripture , alleadging forsooth , for inconveniencie , the multitude of absurd doctrins which the word would swarm with , if such a libertie were granted : no , no ▪ far be it from any true reformed child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret scripture , and believe what they judge by it to be true : and if what the judge to be true , should seem to you fals and scandalous ; do not you believe it , but let them believe it , and they will be of the reformation , because they follow our rule of faith . ismael . k luther , l melancton , m musculus , n ochinus , o beza and others teach the lawfullness of bigamy or multiplicity of wives , and prove it with the example of abraham , isaac and jacob : and ochinus expounding the text of s. paul ; it behoueth a bishop to be a man of one wife : the prohibition saies he , is not to be vnderstood so , that a bishop should have but one wife at a time for certainly he may have many , but s. paul's meaning is , that he ought not to have too many wyves at a time ; that 's to say ten or twentie . isaac . and will you deny this to be the doctrin of the reformation , wheras its scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment ? ismael . the synod of geneve ; p and the q ecclesiastical disciplin of france printed at saumure , has decreed , that a wife whose husband is a long time absent , may have him called by the public cryer , and if within a competent time he does not appear , without any further enquiry , the minister may lycence her to marry an other , or marry her himself . isaac . j say , all honest women may practise this doctrin without scruple or shame , wheras its scripture as interpreted by that thrice holy synod : but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages , for feare their wyves may take other husbands in their absence . ismael . luther r teachs its lawfull to a wife , if her husband does not please her , to call her man servant , or her neighbour ; which doctrin they say is come to the eares of our london sisters ; and he gives the like libertie to the husbands , if their wyves be pettish and humorsom . if the husband saies he , cannot correct the humorsomness of his wife , he may imagin she is dead , and may marry an other because it s not in the pow●r of a man to live without a woman , nor in hers to live without a man. isaac . this is scripture as interpreted by luther , and consequently must not be denied to be the doctrin of the reformation ; nor can any of our reformation be justly punisht or blam'd for practising it , if he judges by scripture it be true , ( as luther did ) for this is our rule of faith . but luther never gave this libertie , but vpon condition , that the husband or wife should first make their complaint before a magistrat , for to have a redress of their injurie and discontent : but this condition seems too combersom to the modestie of our sisters ; they do no● submit to it , but do themselves justice without any address to the magistrat . ſ i know also that not only luther , but bucer , t melancton , u ochinus , x musculus and calvin● do tea●h that a man who finds his wife in adulterie , may cast her of by divorce and marry an other ; and our french synods have ordered thi● doctrin to be put in their ecclesiastical disciplin , so that its the doctrin of scripture as interpreted by these persons of sound judgment , and consequently of the reformation : you may therefore believe and practise it ; y our sisters , particularly our ministers wyves , were much alarm'd at this doctrin , and say its à damnable heresy : believe as you please . ismael . z does not luther say it● impossible a yong man of years can liue without a woman ; or a yong maide of years , without a man● whereby all parents may believe their daughters of that age are defiled , if not preferr'd in due time : sure you will not say this is the doctrin of the reformation . isaac . and who doubts but tha● its the reformed doctrin ; scripture as interpreted by so sound a judgment : the contrary doctrin is also of the reformation , and you may believe it because our glorious queen elizabeth dyed a virgin ; and it s credibly reported som few fellows of oxford and cambridge liue continently . ismael . but what do you think of a child christen'd in popery by a monk or a fryar , ought he to be christen'd again in our reformation ? and what if a popish priest or fryar did becom of our reformed church , can he lawfully marry , wheras he made a vow of chastity ? isaac . as to the first quere , it s the doctrin of the reformation declared by many french synods and recorded in their ecclesiastical disciplin , that he must be christen'd again , because the first baptism was null : it s also the doctrin of the reformation declared by the church of england and many synods of france , that the first baptism is sufficient and valid : believe which you please . it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , that infants baptism is not at all needfull ( nay nor lawfull say the anabaptists ) so saies calvin a zuinglius , beza and many others , it s likewise the doctrin of our . articles b ; and our holy synod of london c that infants baptism is lawfull and needfull . believe which you like best ; both are of the reformation . as to the second quere , it s the doctrin of the reformation that priests and fryars are obliged to the vow of chastity which they made in popery , and cannot marry ; this is the doctrin of many of our brethren and particularly of d hooker , e marloratus , budellus and f couel ; who say the papish vows of pouertie , obedience and chastitie are commendable and ought to be kept . you may also believe this is wicked doctrin , and that they may take wyues notwithstanding their vow of chastitie , as well as benefices notwithstanding their vow of pouertie : believe which you please ; both doctrins are of the reformation ; but the best is to say they can marry ; for if marriage and benefices were denied them , no priest or fryar would euer embrace our reformed doctrin : we know our great zuinglius himself would not at all preach the ghospell vnto the suitzers , vntill that he presented a petition for himself and his companions , ( all priests and fryars ) extant yet in his . tom. pag. . and obtained the contents of it , which was to have wyves ; nor can wee doubt this to be the best doctrin , wheras luther , beza and almost all our other reformers , were priests and fryars , and the first step they gaue in the reformation was to marry : the papists and som weake brethren were much scandalized at luthers marriage , and erasmus his rallerie vpon it was much solemnised , luther yesterday a monk , to day a husband , and next day à father , because that honest cate boren , his virtuous bride , was hapily delivred of a louey boy eight daies after he married her : but the servant of god did not regret the action , which proues that he judged by scripture it was very lawfull . v. dialogue . ismael . you know i have been born and bred in our holy reformation , and a church of england man ; you tell me i may believe this or that , and whateuer i please ; i would gladly settle once for ever , and resolve what j may , and ought to believe , and not to be euery day carried away with euery wind of doctrin : let me , to that purpose propose vnto you , and hear your resolution of som doubts . what do you think , have not wee a church on earth establisht by christ , wherin wee are to live and serve him , and believe her doctrin ? isaac . j will giue you no other instruction nor answer but the pure doctrin of the reformation ; which when you have heard , you may determin as you like best , what religion to embrace ; but know this , that after you have determin'd with yourself to believe this or that ; you may with a very safe conscience alter that resolution next day after , and believe the quite contrary to what you resolved to believe , if vpon better consideration you thinke the contrary to be true ; this is the libertie of the holy reformation as j proued in my first dialogue . as to your present doubt j answer , it s the doctrine of the reformation , that it was jesus christ the son of god who establisht the church ; you may believe it therefore : it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , that it was not jesus christ the son of god who establisht the church : that this is the doctrin of our reformation its apparent ; for its scripture as interpreted by ochinus a man of sound judgment , whom all italy could not match , saies calvin ; in whose presence england was happy , and vnhappy in his absence , saies b bale : ochinus speakes thus , a considering how the church was establisht by christ and washt with his blood ; and considering again how it was vtter●y ouerthrowen by papacy ; i concluded that he who establisht it , could not be christ the son of god , because he wanted prouidence ; and vpon this reflexion he renounced christ and became a jew : and no man can say but that he acted and behaued himself like a true child of the reformation in so doing ; for he followed scripture as he vnderstood it ; and as he was a true reformed child in forsaking popery , because he vnderstood by scripture , that the reformation was better ; so since he vnderstood by reading scripture more , that judaism was better than the reformation , he acted like a good reformed , in chosing that which he vnderstood by scripture to be the best : this is the reformations rule of faith : do you , if you please , as he did , and you 'l be as good a reformed as he . and if you choose to believe that there is a church establisht on earth by christ , you must beware never to believe or perswade yourself that wee are bound to believe her docctrin , or live in her , if you do not judge by scripture that she teachs the doctrin of christ : this is the most essential point of popery ; an obligation of submitting our judgments to the church , and believing her doctrin without any more examin ; and in this the church of england is much like the popish church , which by acts of parliaments and other severities , would oblige all men to believe her doctrin rites and ceremonies : no , god has given vs scripture for our rule of faith ; as wee forsook the popish church , because wee discouered by scripture her many errors in doctrin ; so wee are not bound to believe the doctrin of any other church , but as wee find by scripture her doctrin is true . do , and speake as luther to . . edit . jen. in resolut . i will be free , and will not submit to the authority of councils , popes church or vniversity ; to the contrary i will confidently teach whatever i judge to be true ; whether it be catholic doctrin or hereticall ; condemned or approued . ismael . must i not believe that the doctrin of jesus christ , delivered to his apostles and the church is true doctrin ? isaac . the reformation teaches it is , and you may safely believe it : you may as safely believe it is not , in the principles of the reformation ; because it teaches that christ err'd in doctrin and manners : vere pharisaei e●ant viri valde boni , saies luther ; b & christus minime debuit eos taxare : and calvin saies , it s a folly to think he was not ignoran● in many things ; c lastly david georgius d ( a man of god and of a holy life saies osiander ) writes . if the doctrin of christ and his apostles had been true and perfect ; the church which they planted had continued , but now it is manifest that antichrist has subverted it , as it 's manifest in papacy ; therefore it was false and impe●fect . see these words quoted in the historie of david george printed by the divins of basile , at antwerp an . . both doctrins are scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment ; a child of the reformation , may believe which he will. ismael . is it not the doctrin of the reformation that the apostles were infallible in their doctrin ! much more must wee believe that jesus christ was so . isaac . yes it is ; you may believe it : and it s also the doctrin of the reformation that they were not infallible , neither in their written or vnwritten doctrin ; so , many of our most renowned drs speake ; and whatever any men of sound judgment judge to be true by scripture , is the doctrin of the reformation : zuinglius , e one of the greatest oracles of our church saies ; it 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible authority in the ghospels or epistles of the apostles ; beza not inferiour to zuinglius , blotted out of s. john the historie of the woman adulteress ▪ judging it a fable . clebitius f affirms , that luk's relation of christ's passion is not true , because it does not agree with that of mathew and mark , and more credit is to be given to two , than to one . g calvin saies , peter consented to , and added to the schism of the church , to the ouerthrow of christian liberty , and christ's grace . h whitaker sais , it 's evident that after the descent of the holy g. the whole church , even the apostles , erred ; and peter erred in doctrin and manners i luther saies peter liued and taught extra verbum dei ; and brentius k his disciple saies , that peter and barnabas , togither with the church of ierusalem erred after receiving the h. ghost . if our rule of faith be scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , vndoubtedly this must be the doctrin of the reformation , and may be believed by any reformed , since its scripture interpreted by such renowned men . ismael . this is most wicked doctrin , i 'l never believe it . isaac jf you think by scripture its wicked , do not : follow your rule of faith , scripture as you vnderstand it : but if an other vnderstands by scripture ( as those authors did ) that the doctrin is good , give him leave to believe it ; hee 'l but follow his rule of faith ; scripture as he vnderstands it . ismael . i would gladly know which are the true canonical bookes of scripture . isaac . the reformation teachs and you may believe with the church of england that s. paul's epistle to the hebrews ; those of james and jude ; the . of s. peter ; the . and of s. john , are true cononical scripture ; the reformation also teachs they are not canonical , because lutherans deny them ; believe which you like best . but if you l ' live in peace , and out of all strife with protestants , lutherans , and others , who dispute , if this or that be canonical scripture ; your rediest and speediest way will be , to say ther 's no true canonical scripture ; scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious bookes : if you say this is not the doctrin of the reformation ; reade hossius de expresso verbo dei , & lib. de haer. where he relates this to be the doctrin of the swi●feldians , as good reformeds , as the best of vs : they say , that wee are not to regard any instruction from man or book , but gods immediat inspiration , which speakes secretly to our hearts ; for which they alleadge those comfortable words of the prophet , i will hear what my lord my god speakes in me : for say they , the book which we call scripture , is a creature , and we must not seeke for light and instruction from any creature , but from god the father of lights . this is scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment : any child of the reformation may believe it . ismael . i thought to settle my mind in my choyce of som religion , and you go the way to beate me from all ; for if you renvers the authority of scripture , what warrant shall wee haue for any religion ? god forbid the reformation should deny the true canon , or the infallible truth of scripture ; and let all the world say the contrary , i will constantly revere and believe it's gods infallible word . isaac . how can you say i beate you from all religion , when i directly perswade you to follow the rule of faith of our reformation , scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; let this be your religion , if you will be a true reformed ; whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true ; let the church of england , or france or any other say and believe what they will ; you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true , and this is the religion of the reformation . ismael . j would gladly know , if it be lawfull to chop or change the text ? isaac . it 's the doctrin of the reformation , that you cannot , because god has forbid to add to , or take away from his word : and therefore wee condemn the papists for their traditions , obtruded vpon the flock as the word of god : it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , and the practise of our best reformers , when the text does not speake cleerly enough , that for to refute popery and establish our own doctrin , wee may add or diminish a word or two ; which is not to change the word of god , but to make it speake more expresly : as when luther had a mind to preach iustification by faith alone ; finding the text said but , man is justified by faith , he added the word alone , and made the text very cleer against popery , which formerly was somwhat obscure : zuinglius being to teach the figurative presence of christ in the sacrament , found the text , this is my body , to be too pat against his doctrin ; and insteed of is , put in , this signifieth : the church of england being to preach the kings spiritual supremacy , could not convince the obstinat papist by the original text which saide . pet. submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the lord's sake , whether it it be the king as excelling , or to , &c. but in king edwards time they altered one word , and made the text thus , submit yourselves to every ordinance of man , whether it be to the king as being the cheef head , and the following impressions of the bible the yeare . and . saie , to the king as supreame . and so the true ductrin is cleerly convinced out of scripture : as also the lawfullness of priests marriage● for the text before the reformation said . cor. have not wee power to leade about a woman sister ; and now our bibles say , have not wee power to leade about a wife being our sister : hence its evident according the doctrine and practise of our reformation , that when you have a mind to establish a doctrin which you judge to be true , you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning , provided you judge your sense to be true . ismael . what do you think of iustifying faith ? does faith alone justify vs ? isaac . it 's the doctrin of the reformation , that without charity it cannot , because s. paul saies . cor. . if i have faith so as to move mountains , and have no charity , i am nothing , it 's also the doctrin of the reformation , that its impious and wicked to say , faith alone without charity does not justify ; this is scripture as interpreted by luther a man of sound judgment : l who say , quoth luther , that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot , justify without charitie ; say impiously and wickedly ; because faith alone without any good works doth justify . believe which doctrin you please , both are of the reformation . ismael . luther was insolent in checking the doctrin of s. paul. isaac . probably he did not reflect that it was the doctrin of the apostle ; and if you will have it to be a check of s. paul , luther m will answer for himself be it , saies he , that the church , augusti● or other drs , also peter and paul , nay and an angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as i teach , yet my doctrin is such that it setteth forth gods glory ; i know i teach no human , but divin doctrin . it 's the doctrin of the reformation that faith alone without any good works , and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of , doth justify you : this is scripture as interpreted by luther , who saies , nothing can damn you but incredulity , as nothing but faith can save you ; of whitaker , wotten fulk and beza whose words i related in our precedent dialogue ; which j believe you remember , and j need not repeat . jts also the doctrin of the reformation , that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie ; n hocker and harmonia confess : o say its the doctrin of scripture ; and what any person of sound judgment judges to be the doctrin of scripture , he may believe it ; for this is our rule of faith : it s like wise the doctrin generally of all our church , that good works are not at all meritorious : tindal ( called by fox p a man of god and a constant martyr ) judges this to be so true that in his treatise de mammona iniquitatis he saies , christ himself did not by all his good works merit the glory : and tho the scripture saies expresly he did ; calvin q affirms , that its a foolish curiosity to examin , and a rash proposition to say christ did merit . jt's the doctrin of the reformation , that tho good works be not meritorious , nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation ; yet they are absolutly needfull for both ; in as much as that true faith cannot be without good works ; because they are the marks and signs of a living faith , by which alone wee are saved ; this is the judgment of the church of england expressed in the . and . article , of the . and of melancton in locis commun . de bonis operibus , and you may believe it : you may also believe , and its the doctrin of the reformation , that good works are so farr from being needfull , that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation , and the best way to be saved is to do no good work at all ; this is scripture as interpreted by jlliricus , flaccius , amsdorfius quoted in act. colloq . aldeburg . pag. . and . and luther r was so deeply perswaded of this truth , that tho christ said , if ●hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven , keep the commandments : luther saies , it s an obstacle to our salvation to keep them : where it is said , quoth he , that faith in christ doth indeed justify vs , but that it is necessary also to keep the commandements , there christ is denied , and faith abolisht ; because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the commandements . and again ſ saies he , if faith be-acompanied with good works , it s ●o true faith ; that it may justifie it must be alone without any good works . this is scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound men ; and consequently the doctrin of the reformation ; and who doubts but that any doctrin of the reformation may be believed . hence forward , when you hear the preacher exhort you to good works , you may believe him , if you please , and have a mind to spend your monies ; because he preaches the doctrin of the reformation : or you may laugh at him , and believe not a word he saies , because he preachs against the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . these are dangerous and scandalous tenets destructive of piety and christianity ; and let luther and those authors you quoted say what they please , the reformation , nor no honest man will ever believe such abominable doctrin . isaac . j do not say that the children of the reformation are obliged to believe them : they may believe as you do , that all are wicked tenets : but if luther and the others cited , judge in their conscience these tenets to be the doctrin of scripture , and if peter , john or james like their interpretation ; i say they may according the principles of our reformation believe them , and be as truly reformed children as you : for our rule of faith is scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , and in believing those tenets , because they judge them to be the doctrin of scripture , they stick fast to , and follow our rule of faith : why is figurative presence , and the kings supremacie the doctrin of the reformation ; tho denied by papists , lutherans and presbyterians ? but because the protestants judge its the doctrin of scripture : if therefore those great authors i quoted , and any other with them judge those tenets to be the doctrin of scripture , they can be justly called the doctrin of the reformation : must protestants be forced against their judgments to deny real presence and supremacy , because lutherans say its wicked doctrin ? and why must luther , jlliticus , flaccius and others be forced to deny those tenets , tho protestants or papists judge them to be damnable i let each one believe what he thinks to be the doctrin of scripture , and he will still be a true reformed child . ismael . does not our reformation teach that it 's possible to all men assisted with gods grace to keep the commandments ? isaac . this is the doctrin of the church of england , and consequently of the reformation : it 's also the doctrin of the reformation delivered out of scripture as interpreted by luther , calvin , willet and several others , that its impossible to any man , assisted with what grace soever to keep the commandments . none has euer yet , saies our great calvin , t and god has decreed none shall ever keep the commandments : again , u the law and commandments were giuen vs , to no other end but that we should be damn'd by them , in as much as that it is impossible for vs to do what they command . the same doctrin is taught by luther in several places of his works , by willet , x and by our brethren the gomarists of holland , and many of our french synods . believe which you please , both doctrins are of the reformation . jt's also the doctrin of luther and calvin , that god does not cast men into hell because their sins deserve it ; nor save men because they merit it ; but meerly because he will have it so : he crowns those who have not deserved it saies luther , y and he punishes those who have not deserved it : t is gods wrath and seuerity to damn the one , 't is his grace and mercy to saue the other . calvin also , z men are damn'd for no other cause but because god will have it so ; he is the cause and author of their damnation ; their damnation is decreed by god when they are in their mother's womb , because he will have it so ; this is also the belief of our gomarists in holland , of many french churchs , and of several learned calvinists : tho the church of england denies this doctrin , none will dare say it s not the doctrin of the reformation , because its scripture as interpreted by such eminent men of our church . ismael . j will neuer believe such execrable doctrins ; nor will j euer be of any congregation which believes them . isaac . j do not advise you to believe them ; but to giue others leaue to believe them , if they think them to be the doctrin of scripture ; as luther , calvin , willet , gomarists and others do : you must not , if you be a true reformed child hinder any man from believing , nor be displeased with him for believing what he judges in his conscience to be the doctrin of scripture , for this is our rule of faith : will not you be of the congregation and religion of those , who follow scripture as their rule of faith , and believe what they judge in their conscience to be the doctrin of scripture ? ismael . yes j will , and am of such a congregation , for this is the rule of faith of the reformation . isaac . why then , you must be of the same congregation with the gomarists , luther , calvin and the others , who believe those which you call execrable doctrins , because they follow scripture as they vnderstand ; and believe those doctrins , because they judge them to be of scripture : you both follow the same rule , one goes one way , and the other an other , and both are of the reformation . the church of england vnderstands by scripture that god is not the author nor cause of sin , that he does not force vs to sin ; who doubts but that this is there fore the doctrin of the reformation ? but calvin , brentius , beza and several others vndestand by scripture ; that god is the cause and author which forces our will to sin ; that man , and the deuil , are but gods instruments to commit it : that murthers , incests , blasphemies , &c are the works of god , that he makes vs commit them : and who doubts but this also is the doctrin of the reformation being scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound judgments ? god saies calvin , a directs , moues , inclins and forces the will of man to sin ; in so much that the power and efficacy of working , is wholy in him ; man , nay and satan when he impells vs , being only gods instruments which he vses for to make vs sin . zuinglius , willet , beza teach the same . vi. dialogue . ismael j am weary of hearing such horrid blasphemies ; my heart trembles to heare you say , that such abominable tenets may be believed according our rule of faith and principles of our reformation : i beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff : j conceive very well that mens judgments and consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny this or that tenet , because the pope or his infaillable , forsooth , church wil have it so ; isaac . and must they be constrain'd to deny or believe because the fallible church of england or france will have it so ? ismael . no , j do not say they must , have patience , and heare me speake a whyle : j say that scripture must be our rule of faith , and not any pope , or church , or congregation ; and that wee are no to be forced by any to believe , but what wee vnderstand to be true by scripture ; and that if wee judge by scripture any doctrin to be fals and contrary to gods word ; wee must not be forced to believe it : but wee must not abuse this liberty : that wee should have libertie for to believe or deny supremacy , figurative presence , communion in one or both kinds , and such other inferior truths controverted among christians ; and that each congregation may in such articles , believe as it vnderstands by scripture to be true , may pass ; and it s practis'd in our reformed churchs : but that wee should run so farr , as to have libertie by our rule of faith to believe or deny the fundamental and chief articles of christianity , as the trinity , incarnation , divinity of christ , &c. that libertie ought not to be giuen : our reformation very wisely and piously permits the lutherans to believe one thing , the presbyterians an other , the protestants an other , and so of the rest : and all are true reformed children , because each of them believes as they judge by scripture to be true : but the reformation has neuer giuen , not neuer will giue liberty to interpret scripture against the fundamental articles of christanity : wee must be moderat ; and keep our rambling fancies within compass , and if any should judge and interpret scripture in favor of any scandalous and abominable tenets against christianity and good manners , he must be checkt , and not commended : this moderation the church of england vses and will never permit the contrary . isaac . j percevie a greate deale of popish blood to run in your veins , and that if you and your church of england , were in p●ower at the beginning of our reformation , wee should neuer have had a luther , calvin , beza , or such other noble and renowned reformers : by what j gather from your discourse , j do not see the breth of an inchs difference betwixt the church of rome and you and your church of england ; for the church of rome will not stick to grant , that gods word alone is her rule of faith , but so that none must believe any sense of it , but as she believes it , nor interpret any text , but receive her interpretation of it : the church of england has scripture for her rule of faith , and gives vs libertie for to interpret , vnderstand , and believe som texts of it , as each one thinks best ; and so permits presbyterians to deny episcopacy , lutherans to deny figurative presence , &c. and confesses they are all her brethren of the reformation , but she will give no libertie at all for to interpret other texts , but all must vnderstand them as she does , or all must be heretiks and damn'd men : no , that text , my father and i are one , must be interpreted to signifie the unitie in nature of the father and son , as the church of england believes ; none must interpret it otherwise : so that the difference betwixt the popish church and that of england is ; the first giues vs no liberty at all : the second giues us som libertie ; the first robs vs of all ; the second but of the one half : the rule of faith in popery is scripture as interpreted by the pope and councils ; the rule of faith in england as to som articles is scripture as interpreted by the church of enggland ; and as to other articles , scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it : and thus protestants , are but half papists , and half reformed , and both these ingredients will never make a good compound . let any vnbyass'd and impartial man judge if the church of england proceeds justly in this : for if our rule of faith be scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it , as she mentions in her . articles ▪ and as the whole reformation believes , if wee are not to be constraind , to believe any church , council , or mans sense of scripture , if wee do not judge by the word of god its true ; by what authority rule or reason , can the church of england give me libertie to vnderstand and believe som texts as j please ; and deny me libertie for to vnderstand and believe others , as j judge by scripture they ought to be vnderstood ? j pray observe well this discourse : heer are luther , calvin , beza , zuinglius and our other first reformers ; they interpret som texts against the doctrin of rome , and others against the doctrin of the church of england : they are praised for the first , and esteemed apostolical reformers , because without any regard of what the church of rome said , they freely taught and believed what they judged by scripture to be true ; why must not they be praised and esteemed true reformers also , for not regarding what the church of england or any other saies ; but teach the impossibility of gods commandments , the sufficiency of faith alone , and all those other tenets which you so much mislike , since they judge by scripture , that to be the true doctrin : are they bound to submit their judgments to the church of england more than to that of rome ? ismael . but in those tenets they do not only contradict the church of england ; but all christian churchs and congregations ; for all will say those are wicked and scandalous doctrin . isaac . and if they judge by scripture that those tenets are not such , but sound and good doctrin , may not they believe them , tho all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them ? is not scripture our rule of faith , and are wee to regard what any church or all churchs say , further than wee find by scripture that they say well ? but being these tenets , which you call horrid blasphemies displease you i 'll change my discourse ; and because i see you are popishly inclined , j will shew you how by the principles of our reformation , you can be as good a papist as the pope ; one principle excepted , wherin you must dissent from the church of rome , if you intend to remain a true reformed child . ismael . you promise too much , and more than j desire to know ; j don't desire to have any communication with the pope , i know by the writings of our authors what kind of beast he is . isaac . by your favor , you may believe the popes are worthy , honest , and godly men ; many drs. of our reformation , and our travellers to the court of rome give this testimonie of them ? you may also believe , that popes and cardinals are knaves and atheists , who looke on scripture as a romance and deny the incarnation of christ , for calvin saies so , and would never have said it , if it had not been true : but beware not to speake so in rome , or they 'l lodge you where honest taylor the quaker was ; nor in spain , or they 'l stop your mouth with an inquisition faggot . ismael . j care not what the pope or cardinals are ; but j would gladly know , what religion and congregation you are of ; for wheras you are my immediat instructor ; it behoues me to know what religion you have . isaac as to my religion , i doubt not but that my readers will be devided in their judgments of me ; if a papist reades me , hee 'l sweare i am an atheist ; but j hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his pope : if a protestant , hee l say , i am a papist ; and that my drift is to cast dirt vpon his church : the honest quaker will say , i am a profane man ; others perhaps will say i am of no religion , but a despiser of all ; and our congregations are so vncharitable that likely none will accept of me , because i say all religions are very good : a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his neighbours ; and that each one must have all the world to be naught but himself : this then is my religion , to suffer persecution for justice and truth ; to render good for evil ; to bless those who curse me ; and speake well of all congregations , whylst they speake all evil against me : reflect well vpon what j discoursed hitherto , and you will find , j am as great a louer of the reformation as they who may think me its enemie ; and reade my following discourse and you will find i loue popery as well as the reformation : the spirit of god makes no exception of persons . ismael . you promised to proue by the principles of the reformation , that wee may believe all the tenets of popery , and remain still of the reformation : how can this be ? isaac . you remember i excepted one principle of poperie , wherin you must necessarily dissent from them : and if you deny this one principle , you may believe all their others tenets as well as the pope ; and be as ●ood a child of the reformation as luther . ismael . what principle is this , which you seem to make the only distinctive sign of a reformed , from a papist . isaac . listen a whyle : a papist is not a papist because he believes purgatory , transubstantiation , indulgences , and the rest of popish tenets , but because he believes them vpon the testimonie of the pope and church , because they assure him they are revealed truths : if a papist did say , j believe these tenets because i myself do judge by scripture that they are revealed ; and not , because the pope and church say they are ; he would be no papist : the papist believes the mystery of the trinity , the incarnation and passion of christ : the protestant believes the same mysteries ; yet the one is a papist and no protestant ; the other is a protestant and no papist . and why ? because the papist believes them vpon the testimonie of the pope and church , the protestant believes them vpon the testimony of gods written word : believe then whatever you please of popery , provided you believe it , because you judge by scripture its true , and not because the pope or the church sayes it ; you 'l never be a papist but a perfect reformed . ismael . if this discourse be solid , you may hedge in all the articles of popery into our reformation . isaac . if you peruse the works of our reformed drs you 'l hardly find any article of popery , but has been judged by many , or som of our best reformed drs , to be the true doctrin of scripture ; and wheras any doctrin which any person of sound judgment vnderstands by scripture to be true may be justly called the doctrin of the reformation ; it follows that hardly is there any article of popery , for which wee see so many persecutions againsts subjects , and such troubles in our parliaments , but is truly the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . shew me som examples of this . isaac . the veneration of relicks and saints dead bones , is generally believed by vs to be meer popery and superstition ; therefore wee made no store of luther and calvins bones , tho wee know them to be as great saints as any in the popish church : but veneration of relicks and saints bones , is the doctrin of our reformation ; for whatever is set down and commended by our common prayer book , must be vndoubtedly esteemed our reformed doctrin and practice , and our common prayer book printed since our kings happy restauration , in its kalender sets down a day to the translation of s. edward king of saxons body in the month of june ; and dedicats an other to the translation of the bodies of s. martin and swithin , in the month of july . the veneration and vse of the sign of the cross , is flat popery in the judgment of all our congregations ; yet any reformed child may laudably and piously vse it ; wheras our common prayer book in the administration of baptism , commands the minister to vse it , saying , wee sign him with the sign of the cross , in token that heerafter he shall not be ashamed , to confess the faith of christ crucified , and manfully to fight vnder his banner against sin , the world and the deuil . and in our kalender printed since his majesti's restauration , it s called the holy cross . our congregations generally believe , its popery to keep holy daies ( except the sabboth day ) and saints daies ; to fast lent , vigils , commanded , emberdays , and fridaies ; and all this is recommanded to vs in our common prayer book , and the minister is commanded , in the administration of the lords supper , to publish the holy daies of the week , and exhort vs to fast ; and surely , he is not commanded to teach , or exhort vs to any thing , but to the doctrin of the reformation : it 's true the students of our colledges of oxford and cambridge , are much troubled with scruples in this point : these pauperes de lugduno , are compelled to fast all fridays throughout the yeare ; and it s not hungar that makes them complain , but tenderness of conscience , because they feare its popery . it 's a popish error , wee say , to believe that pennance , or our penal works of fasting , almsdeeds , or corporal austerities , can auaile and helpe for the remission of our sins , and satisfying gods justice : no , we say , penal works , serue for noting ; all is don by repentance ; that 's to say , by sorrow of heart for having offended god. this is the doctrin of danaeus , willet , junius and calvin , who saies francis , dominick , bernard , antony , and the rest of popish monks and fryars , are in hell for their austerities and penal works : for all that , you may very well believe , and its the doctrin of the reformation , that pennance and penal works , do auaile for the remission of our sins , and are very profitable to the soule ; for , our common prayer booke in the commination against sinners , saies thus ; in the primitive church , there was a godly disciplin , that at the beginning of lent , such as were notorious sinners , were put to open pennance , and punisht in this world , that their soules may be saued in the day of the lord. and our common prayer booke wishes , that this disciplin were restored again ; and surely , it does not wish that popery were restored ; therefore it s no popery to say , that pennance or penal works , do satisfy for our sins in this world , and auaile to save vs in the other . ismael . i know , many of our congregations , mislike much our common prayer booke for these popish tenets ; but what do you say of the grand errors of popery , can a man be a true child of the reformation , and yet believe the popes supremacy ; deny the kings supremacy ; believe transubstantiation and communion in one kind ; are these tenets , the doctrin of the reformation , or consistent with its principles ? isaac . the kings supremacy is vndoubtedly the doctrin of the reformation ; because it s judged by the church of england to be of scripture : yet not only the quakers , presbyterians , anabaptists , and other congregations , judge it s not of scripture , but as erroneus a tenet , as that of the popes supremacy ; calvin . amos , saies ; they were vnaduised people and blasphemers , who raised king henry the viii . so far as to call him the head of the church ; but also that no civil magistrat can be the head of any particular church , is the doctrin of the centuriators cent . sept . pag. . of cartwright , viretus , kemnitius and many others ; who doubts then but that in the principles and doctrin of the reformation , you may deny the kings supremacy , tho the church of england believes it . the popes supremacy is the doctrin of popery ; who doubts it ? but it s also the doctrin of the reformation , for many of our eminent drs. haue judged it to be the doctrin of scripture ; as whitgift , a who cites calvin , and musculus for this opinion : but its needfull wee relate som of their express words , i do not deny saies luther , b but that the bishop of rome , is , has been , and ought to be the first of all ; i believe , he is aboue all other bishops , it s not lawfull to deny his supremacy : melancton c saies no less that the b. of rome is aboue all the church ; that it is his office to govern , to judge in controversies , to watch ouer the priests , to keep all nations in conformity and vnity of doctrin : somaisius , d the pope of rome has been without controversie the first metropolitan in italie , and not only in italie , nor only in the west , but in all the world , the other metropolitans have bin chief in their respective districts , but the pope of rome has bin metropolitan and primat , not only of som particular dioces , but of all . grotius e has expresly the same doctrin and proves this supremacy belongs to the pope de iure divino . j pray consider if these drs. be not men of sound judgment , and of eminent learning and credit in our reformation , and if our doctrin be scripture as such men vnderstand it , consider i say with what justice can this doctrin be called popery more than reformed doctrin . as for transubstantiation , it contains two difficulties ; first if the body of christ be really in the sacrament ; and this real presence , the lutherans defend to be the doctrin of scripture , as well as the papists ; why then should it be called popish , more than reformed doctrin ? the second is , if the substance of bread , be in the sacrament togither with christs body : lutherans say it is ; papists say it is not , but that there is a transubstantiation , or change of the whole substance of bread , into the body of christ ; but hear what luther f saies of this that wee call popish doctrin ? i give all persons libertie to believe in this point , what they please , without hazard of their salvation , either that the bread is in the sacrament of the altar , or that it is not . would luther have given this liberty , if transubstantiation had not been the doctrin of the reformation as well as any other ? calvin g also and beza h affirm , that luther's doctrin of the coexistence of christ's body and the bread , is more absurd , than the popish doctrin of the existence of the body alone ; if therefore wee be true reformed , and safely believe the doctrin of luther , which is the most absurd ; much more will we be of the reformation , by believing that of the papists , which is less . communion in one kind , is the doctrin of the reformation , no less than communion in both : for besides that luther saies , i they sin not against christ , who vse one kind onely , seeing christ has not commanded to vse both ; and again , k tho it were an excellent thing to vse both kinds in the sacrament ; and christ has commanded nothing in this , as necessary , yet it were better to follow peace and vnity , than to contest about the kinds ; but also melancton ; l who in the opinion of luther surpasses all the fathers of the church ; expresly teachs the same doctrin : and the church of england statut . edward vi. commands . that the sacrament be commonly administer'd in both kinds , if necessitie does not require otherwise ; mark , he saies but commonly ; and that for som necessity it may be receved in one ; lastly th● sufficiency of one kind in the sacrament , is plainly set down by our reformed church of france in her ecclesiastical disciplin printed at saumur , chap. . art . . the minister must give the bread in the supper to them , who cannot drink the cup , provided it be not for contempt . and the reason is , because there are many who cannot endure the tast of wine : wherefore it often happens among them , that som persons , do take the bread alone : and truly if som of our ministers in england , do not give better wine than they are acustomed , who very irreverently serve that holy table with naughtie trash , it s much to be feared , that our flock will also petition to be dispens'd with in the cup ; because there are som of so delicat palats , that they cannot endure the tast of bad wine . now , you may admire the injustice of the papists in condemning our reformed doctrin and doctors as hereticks , wheras those tenets are believed by many of vs , as well as by them ; and the groundless severity of our congregations in exclaiming against that doctrin ; it being the doctrin of the reformation , wheras so many eminent men of our own , judge it to be of scripture . ismael . wheras i see people persecuted by the church of england for these tenets , i can hardly be perswaded they are the doctrin of the reformation : at our next meeting wee will pursue this discourse ; the bell rings for morning prayers ; a dieu . vii . dialogue . isaac . you come from church , as i guess by the common prayer booke i see in your hands , i pray let me see the kalender of it ; if it be à la mode nouvelle , which was made by the church of england , since his majesties restauration . ismael . why ? have you met any thing in it , which shocks you ? isaac . shock me ? no doctrin or practice of any congregation , or man of sound judgment of our church can shock me ; you know , i pleade for libertie to believe and practise as each one judges by scripture to be true and good . but i observe in your kalender , you have a day consecrated to s. ann in the month of of july ; i would gladly know , what ann is this , which the church of england honors so much ? ismael . it 's ann , the mother of the virgin mary . isaac . is 't possible ? j thought it was ann bolen the mother of our virgen elizabeth : j am sure the church of england , is more obliged to her , than to the other : but as you have put heer the mother of the virgin mary , why did not you put in also elizabeth mother of the great baptist ; and the angel gabriel , as well as michael ? ismael . j know not indeed . isaac . nor do j know , if it be not , because that elizabeth and gabriel made the popish ave maria , as scripture relates ; but can you tell , as the church of england put in your kalender , s. george , s. andrew and s. david , patrons of england , scotland and wales ; why did not she put in s. patrick patron of ireland ? ismael . j can't tell ; what may be the reason , think you ? isaac . j know not , if it be not that he forfeited his place for his purgatorie ; for tho the others were as deep in popery as he , ) if wee believe the papists ; ) but the parliament pass'd an act of indemnity for england , scotland and wales after the kings return to his kingdoms ; and thereby the sin of popery was forgiven to their patrons ; and no act of indemnitie was past for jreland , whereby patrik is still guiltie ; if it be not , that the seaven champions of christendom tell us s. patrick was s. george his footman , and it was not thought good manners , to put him in the same rank with his master . ismael . for shame , if not for piety , forbeare , j cannot endure to sully sacred things with profane ralleries ; the kalender is a holy institution of the church , and ought to be reverenc'd . isaac . and so is episcopacy , surplices , bells , organs , and corner capps ; yet j hope you will give presbyterians , anabaptists , quakers , &c. leave to laugh at them : and be still as good children of the reformation as you : if you esteem them to be sacred and holy , reverence and honor them ; j commend you for it ; if others judge otherwise let them follow their humor ; each one as he fancies , saies the fellow kissing ●his cow ; this is the holy libertie of the reformation , scripture as each one vnderstands it . ismael . let vs return to our last discourse ; how is it possible , that those tenets of popery , should be the doctrin of the reformation , wheras wee see the church of england so severely persecut the professors of them ? isaac . do you think a doctrin is not of the reformation , because it s denied by the church of england ? or because she persecutes the professors of it ? do not they persecute all non conformists , as well as popery ? persecution is no proof of a doctrin to be bad ; it 's but the effect of a blind zeale armed with power : for to know certainly if a doctrin , be of the reformation , you must trye it by our test or rule of faith , which is the written word of god ; and whateuer any man of sound judgment , of a sincere and humble heart judges to be contained in scripture , or an indubitable consequence out of it ; that man , may believe that doctrin , let all others judge of it as they list ; and by so believing will be a true child of the reformation ; wherefore , since that the church of france , that of england in edward the vi. time , luther , melancton , grotius , and the other authors j quoted , do judge transubstantiation , popes supremacy , and communion in one kind to be the doctrine of sctipture : wee must call it the doctrin of the reformation ; and if you judge as they did , you may believe that doctrin , and be still of the reformation , as well as they . ismael . can you shew me any other tenet of popery , which you can call the doctrin of the reformation . isaac . alas ! you can hardly shew me any tenet of popery , but what is its doctrin ; what doctrin more popish than that of confession and absolution from sins ? yet it s as truly the doctrin of the reformation , as figurative presence : for not only a lobechius , b altamerus , c sarcerius and d melancton say , it s a sacrament : but the church of england in our common prayer booke , declares that priests have not only the power of declaring their sins to be forgiuen to the penitents , but also the power of forgiuing them : and sets down the form of absolution , which the minister is to vse ; our lord iesus christ , who left power to the church , to absolve all sinners which truly repent , of his mercie forgive thee and thine offences ; and i by his authoritie committed vnto me , do absolve thee from all they sins : the ministers of the diocess of lincoln in their survey of the book of common prayers , checkt this doctrin as popery , and petitioned to have it blotted out ; but could not prevaile ; whereby we are given to vnderstand , it s the doctrin of the reformation . it 's popery , wee say , to call extream vnction , confirmation , and holy order of priesthood , sacraments : and who can justly denie all this to be the doctrin of the reformation ? for calvin e saies , i confess , the disciples of christ did vse extream vnction as a sacrement ; i am not , saies he , of the opinion of those , who judge it was only a medecin for corporal diseases : calvin f also , and with him our common prayer book and all our divins say , a sacrament is nothing els , but a visible sign of the invisible grace wee receive by it ; and they say with g couel , h hooker and others that this definition fits exactly confirmation ; wherfore the ministers of the diocess of lincolne , checkt the common prayer book , for giving the difinition of a sacrament to confirmation . i melancton , k bilson l hooker and m calvin expresly teach , that the order of priesthood , is a sacramēt . and when men of so eminēt judgment of our reformation teach , this to be the doctrin of scripture , who doubts but that it is of the reformation . ismael . by this , you destroy the doctrin of the reformation , of two sacraments only . isaac . destroy it ? god forbid : because the church of england saies , there are but two sacraments , i say its the doctrin of the reformation , there are but two : and because so many eminent men judge by scripture there are more , j say its the doctrin of the reformation there are more , that 's to say six , baptism , confirmation , eucharist , pennance , extrem unction and holy order : and every likely our bishops and ministers , for their wyves sake , will not stick to grant that matrimony also is a sacrament . ismael . but can you say , that prayers to saints and jmages , prayers for the dead , and purgatorie , are not meer popery , and in no wise the doctrin of the reformation ? isaac . without doubt , those tenets are popery ; but all the world knows , the lutherans vse jmages in their churchs and pray before them ; and the ●oly synod of charenton has declared , as wee said in our first dialogue , that the lutherans have nothing of superstition or idolatry in their manner of divin worship ; this is also the doctrin n of jacobus andreas , o brachmanus , p kemnitius , luther and brentius quoted by beza q and why should not a doctrin judged by such eminent men to be of scripture , be called the doctrin of the reformation ? prayers for the dead and purgatorie , is popery confessedly ; but alas , it is taught expresly by urbanus , regius r bucer , ſ zuinglius , t melancton , u luther , x the common prayer book in king edwards time printed . and many others of our learned drs , and what can you call more properly the doctrin of the reformation , than what such men teach to be the doctrin of scripture : and tho our brethren , quakers , anabaptists , presbyterians and protestants judge prayers to angels and saints to be nothing else but popery : yet our common prayer booke has the same collect or prayer to angels in s. michael's day , that the popish mass book has , and desires that the angels may succour and defend vs on earth : and prayers to , and intercession of saints is taught by luther , y bilneus and latimer quoted by fox z and consequently its the doctrin of the reformation . ismael . if all these popish articles , may be safely believed by the reformation , and be the doctrin of our reformed church , as well as of popery ; what difference then betwixt vs and popery : or why are we called a reformation of popery , or why did wee separat from them ? isaac j have told you already , that our difference from popery , is not , because wee must deny what they believe , for wee believe as well as they the unity and trinity of god , the jncarnation of his son , &c. but in this , that the papists believe because the pope and church saies this is true revealed doctrin : but wee believe not because any church , pope or doctor saies so , but because wee ourselves judge by scripture it is so : for if a papist did say , i do not believe this is a revealed truth , because the pope and church saies it is , but because i find by scripture it is ; he would be no papist : believe then whatever doctrin you will , either popery , iudaism , protestancy , arianism or what else you please , provided you judge by scripture it is true , and that you believe it , not because this or that church , congregation , or drs believe it , but because yourself judges it to be true ; you 'l be a true child of the reformation : and this is the reason why wee are called a reformation , and why wee separated from them , because they would haue vs take for our rule of faith scripture as interpreted by them ; and believe , not what wee judge to be the doctrin of scripture , but what they judge ; and this is also the reason why ptesbyterians are jealous with the church of england ; why anabaptists forsake presbyterians , why these are forsaken by quakers , because each one would haue the world judge as they do , and persecute and trouble one another , which is quite against the spirit of the reformation , for wher as our rule of faith is no church , congregation or man , but scripture as each one vnderstands it ; it follows that by our principles , every one must be permitted to believe whatever he pleases ; and by so doing , he will be a true child of the reformation . ismael . the church of england nor any of our congregations , will neuer believe any of those popish tenets . isaac . the time may come , that they may believe them all , and be still as good reformeds as now they are : for if the pope and his church should to morrow deny and excommunicat those tenets , which now they so stedfastly believe ( and i hope they will som day ) then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all reformed children , to believe them all , as much as now they deny them : and let vs pretend what other reason : wee please : but it s very certain that the strongest reason wee can haue to deny those articles , is because the pope and his church believes them , and consequently , if the popish church , would but deny them , wee might and ought to believe them : you will think this a paradox ; but listen to our apostolical and divin luther : a if a general council , saies he , did permit priests to marry ; it would be a singular mark of piety and sign of godlyness in that case to take concubins , rather than to marry in conformity to the decree of the council , i would in that case command priests not to marry vnder pain of damnation . and again saies he ; b if the council should decree communion in both kinds ; in contempt of the council , i would take one only kind or none . see these words of luther quoted by our learned hospinian c and jewel d and see it s not only my doctrin but of great luther , that in case the pope and council deny all the tenets , they now believe ; wee may , and it will be a pious godly action to believe them , and make as many acts of parliament for them , as now wee have against them . but what 's the matter ? me thinks you become pale som thing troubles you , speake , what i st ? ismael . it 's the horror j conceive against your discourse , my countenance cannot be in a calm , when my mind is in such a storm and confusion ; pursue no more : you said enough , that j should curse the day j haue euer seen you , or heard that , which you call holy liberty , which is but a prostitution of consciences , a profanation of all that is sacred , and an open gap to all impiety in doctrin and manners : but j hope the lord has giuen me that profound respect and attache to our holy reformation , that i shall not be beatten from it by all your engines , able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weake brother : for who would liue a moment in it : if such impious tenets , such sandalous and blasphemous doctrins were of it , or were vnauoidable sequeles out of its principles : no , no , the principles of the reformed church , are sound and orthodox , and no doctrin can follow from them , but what 's pure and true . isaac . let me tell you , j have as tender a loue for the reformation , as you : and j will maintain the holy libertie j assert , cannot justly be called a prostitution of consciences ; for , you dare not deny but this is an orthodox and sound principle , that our rule of faith is scripture as ●ach person of sound judgement vnderstands it ; that it is lawfull for each person of sound judgment to reade it , to giue his judgement of the true sense of it , and to believe and hold that sense of it , which he thinks in his conscience to be true ; is there any prostitution of consciences in this doctrin ? or is it not the doctrin of our reformation ? ismael . all this in true , the prostitution of consciences leyes not there ; but in the scandalous and blasphemous tenets , which you pretend that follow out of that rule of faith . isaac . but you wrong the reformation in calling such tenets blasphemies and scandals : for since our rule of faith is scripture as each person of soud judgment vnderstands it ; if this rule of faith be good and sound ; if it be religious and holy ; any doctrin that is conformable to this rule , must be good , sound , religious and holy ; this being our rule of faith and manners , it s cleerer than day light , that all and each tenet which j rehearsed in all my former discourses , are consormable to our rule of faith ; for our rule is , scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it . our doctrin therefore must be , what any person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the doctrin of scripture . this is an evident sequele out of that principle , and wheras there is not one tenet of all those which j rehearsed , whether they concern doctrin or manners ; but was judged by the doctors , which j cited for it , to be the doctrin of scripture ; it follows vnauoiably , that there is not one tenet of them , but is the doctrin of the reformation : therefore you must be forced to either of these two ; either to say that our rule of faith , by which such doctrins are warranted , is naught , wicked and scandalous , and leads to a prostitution of consciences and manners ; or that all those tenets , are good , sound , pious , and no prostitution or corruption of our consciences : for , pick and choose out the doctrin which you think to be the most wicked and scandalous of all those j rehearsed ; you cannot deny , but that it was taught by the author j quoted for it , and judged by him , to be the doctrin of scripture : and if no doctor hitherto had believed it , you or j , or som other person of sound judgment , may judge it to be the doctrin of scripture : either of both then , you must be constrained to grant : or that the doctrin of the reformation , is not what each person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the doctrin and sense of scripture , which is as much as to say , that our rule of faith must not be scripture as wee vnderstand it , but that wee must believe against our own judgment and conscience , what others say is the doctrin and sence of scripture : or you must grant that all and each of those tenets j rehearsed , is the doctrin of the reformation , tho you , or this , or that man may judge them to be blasphemies and scandals ismael . j confess our rule of faith in the reformation is scripture as each person vnderstands it ; for all our reformed churchs , with the church of england inher . articles do giue vs this rule of faith : i confess consequently out of this principle , that wee must not believe what doctrin or sense of scripture others judge to be true and orthodox , if wee do not ourselues judge it to be such , for wee must not be forced to believe against our judgments : lastly i confess wee may safely believe , whatsoeuer doctrin wee seriously judge to be doctrin of scripture , but prouided , that such a tenet or doctrin be not plainly against scripture , and be not plain and downright impiety and blasphemie . isaac . and in case you , or the church of england , rome , france , or germany judges a doctrin to be blasphemous and against scripture , and luther , or calvin or j , or an other , judges it is good doctrin and conformable to scripture ; to which judgment must j stand ? must j believe yours against my conscience and knowledge ▪ or must not j believe my own ? is it not the principle and practice of our reformation , that j must believe what j judge in my conscience to be scripture , and not what others judge , if they judge the contrarie ? when luther began the reformation , did not almost all christians , and the whole church believe purgatorie and prayers to saints to be the doctrin of scripture ; and did not he , very commendably , deny it against them all , because he judged by scripture it was not ? will a presbyterian believe episcopacy because the church of england saies its the doctrin of scripture ; no , but deny it because himsef judges it is not . ismael . it s true , each one may lawfully believe what himself judges to be the doctrin of scripture ; prouided he be a godly wel intentioned man , humble and meeke in spirit ; provided secondly , that what he vnderstands to be the sense and doctrin of scripture , be not absurd and impious in the judgment of all the rest of the faithfull : for , let a man be euer se learned and godly , if he gives an interpretation of scripture , which is denied by all the church , he must not be followed isaac . your first prouiso is very good , and j hope you will meet no doctor of all those j quoted for those tenets , which you call blasphemies , who was not a learned , godly humble and well intentioned man , who will be so bold as to deny it of luther , calvin , beza , zuinglius , &c. your second proviso is not just , and in it you ouerthrow the whole reformation , and our rule of faith ; for this being , as you granted , scripture as each person of sound judgment vndestands it ; whateuer interpretation or sense any man of sound judgment vnderstands to be of scripture , he may safely and piously believe it , tho all the rest of the world should judge it to be impious and blasphemous ; otherwise our rule of faith , must not be scripture as wee vnderstand it ; but as it is vnderstood by others : and wheras no tenet , of all those j rehearsed , but was judged to be the sense and doctrin of scripture by som of those eminent drs. i quoted ; it follows , they might have safely believed them ; and if you or j judge as they did , wee may also believe as they did , and be still of the reformation . ismael . it 's wicked and pernicious to say , any particular person may believe his own privat sense and interpretation of scripture , if it be judged by all others to be naught ; and therefore the church of england , prudently and wisely , puts a stop and bridle to the extravagant and rambling imaginations of particular persons ; they must conform themselves , and believe but what the church judges may be safely believed . isaac . pray sr. , since when is it cōmendable to constrain mens judgments to believe , not what each one thinks best , but what the church thinks may be safely believed ? was this commendable in the beginning of our reformation , when our blessed reformers began to teach their privat judgments against the church then establisht ? if it was ; then the church of rome is to be commended , for persecuting and excommunicating our first reformers ; and if this was not , nor is not commendable in the church of rome ; why is it commendable in the church of england ? this is a peece of popery , wherof the church of england is guiltie , and for which all our congregations are iealous of her : be it knowen to you , our other congregations , lutherans , calvinists , anabaptists , &c. are as truly and godly children of the reformation as the church of england ; and they will not submit to that popish tyranny , nor suffer any curb to their judgments , but will have our rule of faith to be but scripture , and each one to vnderstand , and believe it , as he thinks best in the lord. ismael . j confess , other congregations will admit no such curb , nor bridle to their judgments , but follow scripture as they vnderstand it ; but the church of england has a reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by the primitive ages , fathers and councils ; and that wee prefer before the privat interpretations of particular persons . isaac . and just so saied the popish church to luther and our first blessed reformers ; and if that had been well d●n ; wee should have had , neither protestancy , nor any other reformation : but you confess at least , that the rule of faith in all other congregations , is but scripture as each person vnderstands it , and each person may consequently believe his own sense of it , and deny the sense of any other if he does not like it : then you must confess , that in all other congregations , except the church of england , any reformed child may believe any sense and doctrin , which any person of sound judgment judges to be scripture , if himself likes it , tho all the rest of the world may think it naught ; and wheras you cannot deny , but that all and each dr. quoted by me for those tenets , which you call blasphemies , were sound and able judgments ; you must confess , that it is a necessarie sequele out of their rule of faith , that in all other congregations they may piously and safely believe all those tenets , and be still true children of the reformation . ismael . j confess if they speake coherently and stand to their principles , they may believe them safely ; but as j hate those blasphemous tenets , i abhorr and detest also that principle and rule of faith of other congregations , from which such tenets are vnavoidable sequeles . isaac . good ismael ; you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed , and you are quite astray from the doctrin of the reformation : you have often granted me , that our rule of faith is scripture , not as this or that congregation , doctor , or church , but as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ; and now you tell me you hate and detest that rule , because that out of it , there follow strange and blasphemous tenets ? you say , the sense and interpretation of the primitive ages , church and fathers must be prefered before the interpretation of any privat person or congregation ; and what think you of our whole reformation , and particularly of our . articles of the church of england , which allow no other rule of faith but scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it ? what say you of luther , calvin , beza , and the rest of our first reformers , who preferred their own privat sense and interpretation of scripture , before that of the whole church ? what say you to the presbyterians , who preferr their own sense and interpretation of the bible , before that of the church of england ? what say you of all the congregations of the reformed church , each one of which , holds its sense and doctrin of scripture , different from all the rest ? i grant , there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the text , given by the primitive church and fathers ; but if a doctor , or man of sound judgment , replenisht with gods spirit , reades scripture with an humble heart , and pure intention , and judges by it , that bygamy is lawfull ; that there is no mystery of three persons in one divin nature ; that christ despaired on the cross , &c. tho these doctrins be quite against the judgment of fathers , church , and councils , he may believe them , and be still a true reformed child , because he follows our rule of faith ; and if he must deny these articles , because others decry them ; then he must go against his own judgement and conscience , for to conform himself to them , and his rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it ; but as the primitive ages , church , and councils vnderstand it ; and this is popery . ismael . prethy friend jsaac , let 's give ouer : all that your discourse drives at , by what j can perceive , is either to beate me from the reformation by shewing me the absurdity of its rule of faith ; or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous tenets as necessary sequeles out of that rule : i am à child of the reformation , and never will be otherwise . isaac . the lord , who is the searcher of hearts , knows , you misconster my intentions : how can you say i intēd to beate you from the reformation ; do not j insist and persuade you to stick fast to its rule of faith , and acknowledge no other but scripture , as you vnderstand it ? how can you say , j oblige you to believe fals and scandalous tenets ? to the contrary , j advise you not to believe them , if you judge by scripture they are fals and scandalous : what my discourse drives at is , that you should not censure , blame , or call any doctrin blasphemous , scandalous , fals , or heretical ( popery excepted ) for , tho you judge by scripture it is not true ; an other will judge it to be the true sense and doctrin of the text ; and if he does , he may with a safe conscience believe it , and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it ; if you do not like that doctrin , do not believe it ; but let the other believe as he judges by scripture he may , and let every tub stand on its own bottom . ismael . once more i besech you give ouer ; j will not discourse any more with you . isaac . nay deare ismael , i see you are troubled , and i will not leaue you in that perplexitie : be pleased to listen to three points i will propose vnto you , and you 'l not miss to find satisfaction in either of them . ismael . let 's heare them . isaac . will you believe scripture , as it is interpreted , and in that sense which the church , councils , and fathers propound vnto you ? ismael . j will not be obliged to that ; for i may judge by scripture that sense and interpretation of it , to be fals and erroneous ; and i will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience ; that is popery . isaac . that 's well , in so much you follow the footsteps of luther , calvin , and our other fist reformers , who would not believe what the church believed in their tyme , nor regarded not , what the papists alleadged out of the councils and fathers against them ; because they held themselves obliged to believe scripture as they vnderstood it , and not as it was vndestood by others : will you then believe scripture in that sense and interpretation which yourself judges to be true , tho the church , councils , and all other congregations , judge it to be fals and erroneous ; and give the like libertie to all others ? ismael . that 's dangerous ; for it would follow , that any man might believe without check or blame , the greatest blasphemies imaginable , if he judges them to be the sense of the text. isaac . why then , since that the first does not please you , for feare of constraining your judgment papist-like ; and the second displeases you , for the scope it gives for to believe any thing , or nothing ; your best way will be to lay scripture asyde , wheras christ has forgot , or neglected to appoint vs som assured means for to know , what sense of it he would have vs believe . ismael . and what religion shall j profess , if j lay scripture asyde ? isaac . the same which now you have by scripture ; that 's to say , whatever you judge to be the true worship of god : be sure to profess a reverence for scripture , and seem to believe its the word of god ; least you may scandalize weake brethren ; pretend allwaies that your sentiments are grounded vpon the text ; but betwixt you and god , believe whatever you think to be true , worship god , as you-judge he is to be worshipt , and that 's the way to liue in peace : do you think but that those noble spirits , which they call the wits of england , have a good religion ? in publick they speake reverently of the bible , but we know what they have , and do declare in their privat discourses , that it s but a romance or meer fiction : do you think but that there was a religion in england before it saw gregori's emissaries , austin and his monks ? what need therefore of a bible for to have religion ? were not the swinfeldians a religious congregation and of the reformation to , yet they cared not for scripture , but grounded their belief vpon gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart ? ismael . if i were not well acquainted with you , and had not very convincing proofes , and signal testimonies of your pietie , solid religiosity , and christianity , i would judge you by this last peece of your discourse , to be an impious atheist or pagan : and j wonder that so good a christian , as i know you to be , should speake so irrevently of the bible , and so much in commendation of paganism as you do : there was indeed a religion in england before they knew what scripture was ; but that religion was paganism , which austin and his companions happily banisht from our land. isaac . happily ? do you call an exchange of paganism for popery ( introduced by austin ) a happiness ? is it not generally believed in our reformation , and most strongly proved of late , by that incomparable wit and pen-man doctor stillingfleet , that popery has as much of idolatry , as paganism : our land therefore had in paganism , as good a religion , as it received by austin in popery : does not this our noble champion , and most of the scribes of the church of england teach , that popery is a saving religion , that we may be saued in the church of rome ? if popery ( not withstanding it be idolatrie , as they say ) be a saving religion ; how can they deny but that paganism is also a saving religion ? what need had our forefathers therefore to abandon paganism ? why was it not left in the land ? ismael . whatever may be said of popery , it cannot be denied , but that christianity is better than paganism : the expulsion therefore of paganism by austin was a happiness , because by it christianity was introduced , and establisht in our kingdom . isaac . alas ismael , if england had bin as well informed of the merit of paganism , when first christianity was preached , it had never exchanged the one for the other . ismael . what , not paganism , which adored a multitude of gods , for christianity which adores but one ? not paganism , which adored iupiter , saturn , venus , &c. who were deuils and evil spirits , or wicked men , who caused themselves to be adored , for christianity , which adores the onely true , immortal and eternal deytie ? isaac . you speake with the vulgar sort ; and believe as you have bin instructed by your ancestors : i confess , the apostles , and ancient doctors of christianity do teach , that the gods of the gentils were deuils or euil spirits ; i confess also , all the christian world since the first preaching of the ghospell , was so perswaded , grounded vpon scripture , which in several places saies , the gods of the gentils were deuds , grounded vpon the doctrin of the apostles , and their successors the fathers of the church , and the world being perswaded by the apostles , by the doctors , fathers , and preachers of christianity , that the gods which the pagans adored were but deuils , which by sorceries , and marvelous works deceiued mankind , and made themselves to be adored as gods , all men were ashamed to adore but deuils , forsooke paganism , and embraced christianity . and all was but a meer policy of popery , to cast so much dirt and calumnie vpon paganism , and make its gods but deuils , for to introduce and establish christianity ; dr. stillingfleet in his charge of idolatry against the chu●ch of rome , pag. . and . saies plainly , that the pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of ; page . saies that iupiter adored by the pagans , was so farr from being an arch-devil , in the opinion of s. paul , that he was the tru god , blessed for ever more : that the pagans adored but one suprem and omnipotent god , which they called jupiter , and which they did believe to be neither a devil , nor a man , but a true , and the first and chiefest of the gods ; and that the rest of the gods , which they adored , they looked vpon them , as vpon inferior deyties , and gave them no other adoration , but such as the papists give to their saints . if therefore the pagans adored the tru god under the name of jupiter , and the other gods but as inferior deyties , as the papists do their saints ; was it not injustly don by the ancient fathers and teachers of christianity , to have imposed vpon the world , and made vs believe the pagans adored but devils and evil spirits ? have not the pagans ryght and justice on their syde , for to pleade before our wyse and religious parliament , that paganism may be restored , or at least tolerated , and iupiter , with the rest of the gods , may be adored , as formerly they were ; first because paganism is no more jdolatry than popery , as dr stillinfleet , mr burnet and other reformed writers prove convincingly ; secondly , because that paganism having bin banisht out of our land vpon the fals information of our first teachers , that it was an adoration of devils , or evil spirits , and wicked debaucht men , who by counterfeited wonders , and cheate , gained the peoples adoration ; since that dr stillingfleet , mr. burnet , and other reformed writers will make it out , that the pagans adored no devils , but one , tru omnipotent , suprem god , blessed evermore , which they called iupiter , and the rest of the gods as inferior deities , as papists do their saints ; and will prove that the pagans were charged by the first ddrs of christianity , and by all our ancestors , with more than they were guilty of ; why should not paganism be restored again to the land , and heard to speake for itsselfe , and dr stillingfleet and his zealous companions be lycenc't to pleade for them , and for holy iupiter , so fouly misrepresented by antiquity , as to be believed an arch-devil , whom dr. stillingfleet will prove to have bin , a tru god blessed for ever more . ismael . the more j discourse with you , the more j am perplexed in mind ; j bid you a dieu , and do confess j carry with me from your discourse , a dislike of what i have bin hitherto , an vnsettlement in my perswasion , and a compassion of the poore pagans , so vniustly banisht from our nation , if what dr stillingfleet saies , be true : he is a learned , religious , and diligent searcher into scripture ; the ancient ddrs and fathers of the church reading scripture , judged and taught , that iupiter was a devil , as well as the rest of the gods which the gentils ad●red ; dr stillingfleet and other reformed ddrs reading scripture judge he was no devil , but the tru god , blessed for ever more ; any child of the reformation may believe either of both , and put jupiter in our litanies , as well as jesus christ , and offer sacrifice to him as formerly our ancestors did ; for whatever any man of sound judment judges to be the doctrin of scripture , may be safely believed , and is the d●ctrin of the reformation : as for my part , i see our wyse parliament sits now vpon a new settlement of gouvernment and religion , and i will not resolve vpon any religion , vntill i see what it concludes . if dr stillinfleet be so zealous , as to put in a good word for paganism before the religious assembly , he may find abettors , and as the parliament cherishes dr oates for the extirpation of popery , so it may cherish dr stillingfleet for the introduction of paganism , and the erecting of temples and altars for holy iupiter , his tru and evermore blessed god ; and if he be successfull in this vndertaking , as for exchanging presbytery for protestancy , he was promoted to the deanry of s. pole , so by changing christianity for paganism , he may expect to be his holy iupiter's heigh priest , in london capitol , and reign with him everlastingly in the other life , in case he believes there is an other . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a epist . ad noremb . & in comment . in . . & . matt. b theol. calvin . l. . fol. . c in parva confes cerm . fol. . & in colloq . fol. . d to. ● . fol. . e the kingdom of isr . pag . f acts & mon. pag . lib. . c. . g catal. tes●ium pag. . & . notes for div a -e a l. ▪ instit . c. b to. . edit . ien. in resolut . c lib. de serv . ar bit . cont . erasm . edit . . d in colloq . mensal . fol. . e to. . wittem . fol. . & . f in defens . art. reliq . protest . pag. . g in his true differ . par . pag . h bouclier de la foy ▪ notes for div a -e matt. . tim. . io. . a in lib. ad corin. c. . b in explan . art. . c to. . de minist . eccles . inst●t fol. & lib. de capt. babyl . c. de ordin . & lib. de abroganda missa . d in harm . in math. c. vers . . & i● admonad polan . in tract . theolog. pag. . e comm●nt . s● . per ioanc . . f in act. serueti pag. . g l. cont . ●enebrar . h in postil . major . in e●arrat . evang. domin . trinit . i lib. . dial. . k harm . in evang. mat c. vers . &c. vers . . & lib. . instit . c. sect . . & ● . l in luc. par . . hom . . & in ioan. hom . . m in math c. . n in recogn . pag . o lib. . inst . c. . fact . . & seq . p to. . w●ttemb . in sp . . q in ps . . r in conses . majori de coena dn̄i . ſ to. . in respōs . ad confess . luth. fol. . t in histor sacram . par . ● . fol. . notes for div a -e a dom . adventus , & libr de proph. christi . b in postill . super evangel . domi. . advent . & dom. . post trinit . c moriu●● to good works in the ep●st . dedic ▪ d lib. ▪ inst c. . sect . . e lib. . inst . c. . sect . . f in loeis common classe c. . g to. . wittem . de capt . babyl . fol. . h de eccl. cont . bellarm . cōf . . quaest i epist . ▪ . & . k to. . wittem : serm . de matrim . & in . ad corint . . l consil . theol. par . pag . & . m in epist paul. ad phil. & in . ad tim. . n lib. ● dial. . o lib. de repud . & divort. pag. . p canon . ●enerales geuuen . . q chap. . art . : r to. . wittem . serm . de matrim . ſ to. . wittemb . serm . de matrim . t in scriptis anglic de reg chr. l. . c. . & in math c. u in consil . theol. par . pag. ● & . x dial. . & in epist . s. paul. ad tim . y l. . inst . c. . sect . . discip . eccl c. . z serm de matrim . a lib. inst . c. . sect . . & . b act. . c can. . d lib. . eccles . polit. pag . e in tim. c. . f in defens . hoo keri art . notes for div a -e a in praefat . dialog . b serm . de . artic. in summa summarum . c in harm super ●uc . c. . d epito● . cent. . par . . e tom. . cont . catabapt . fol. . f victoria verit . a●g . . g in cap. . ad gal. h de eccles cont . bella●m . cont. . q. . i to. . wittem . ●n . & in epist . ad gal. c. . k in apol . cōf. c. de concil . l in cap. . ad gal. & serm . angl : pag . m in epist . ad gal c. . & . & tom. . w●ttemb . an . . soi . . n lib. . de eccl. polit. sect . . o pag. . & ● . p acts. and mon ▪ pag. q lib. ▪ inst . c ● sect . . r in cōment . in cap. . ad gal. ſ to. . proposit . . t lib. . instit . c. . sect . . u harm . evang. in luc. c. . vers . . x in synop . papismi pag . y lib. de servo . arbit cont . erasm . z lib. ● . instit . c. . sect . . & ! &c. . sect . . & cap. . sect . . a lib. . inst . c. sec . & l. . c. sect . z & l. c. z sec . . lo. de deprovid . c. . in synops . pag. . in manifest . stratag . papist . notes for div a -e l. . inst . c. . sect . . a in defens . &c. pag. . . and . b in respons t●edecem propos . c in epist . ad card. belay episo . pariens . d in tract , euchar. ad p. sermondum e in ●not . supe● nouum testam . cap . matth. & soepe alibi . f to. . edit . ie●ae . l , de capt. babyl . westph . defens . orthod . ●it . g admonit . . ad h lib. de coena domini . i lib. de capt . babyl . c. de euchar. k epist ad bohemos in declarat . euch. & in serm● de euch. l in concil . theol. ad mareh . elect. de vsu vtriusque speciei pag. . notes for div a -e a in disput . theol . pag. . b in conciliat loc . scrip. loco . . c in locis cōmun . to. . de potest . eccl. d in apol. confes . aug. art . & l.b. . epist . pag. . e in cap. . epist . lac . v. . f lib. . i●st . c. . sect . . g in modest . exami● . h in eccl ▪ polit. l. . sect . . i in locis cōmun . tit . de numero . sacram ! k in perpet . r●gim . pag. . l in eccl. pol●t lib. . sect . m lib. . inst . c. . n epit. colloq . mōtisbel . o in centur . exercit . theol. pag. . p exam. par . . q in respons . ad acta colloq montisbelgar . par . . in praefat. r in locis cōmun c. . & . ſ ●n script . angl. pag. . t to. . in explan . art. . & art. . u in apolog . confes . aug. x to. ● wittem . in resol . de indul. concl . . y epist ad spalat . z acts. and mon. pag. ● . & . a to. . germ ▪ fol. . b de formula ●issa & to. . germ. c in hiftor . sacram . par . . fol. . d in replica cōt . hardingum . the great case of liberty of conscience once more briefly debated & defended ... which may serve the place of a general reply to such late discourses as have oppos'd a tolleration / the authour w.p. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the great case of liberty of conscience once more briefly debated & defended ... which may serve the place of a general reply to such late discourses as have oppos'd a tolleration / the authour w.p. penn, william, - . [ ], p. - . s.n.], [london : . written by william penn. cf. bm. place of publication from wing. errata on p. [ ]. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion. society of friends -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - robert cosgrove sampled and proofread - robert cosgrove text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the great case of liberty of conscience once more briefly debated & defended , by the authority of reason , scripture , and antiquity : which may serve the place of a general reply to such late discourses , as have oppos'd a tolleration . the authour w. p. for whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , that do you unto them , matth. . . render unto caesar , the things that are caesars ; and to god , the things that are gods , matth. . . printed in the year , . errata . reader , grant the common civility of excusing the author from the errors of the press ; some of which are here corrected . page , line , error , corrected . . . of for . . defected defective . . ten fourteen . . impo'd impos'd . . pervert perverts   . afflictions reflections . . conform conforms . . when what   . conscience consciences . . one he . . for from   . demur demure . . hat that . . book cook . . kinds kind . . one once . . reverence revenge . page , line , error , corrected . are pleased are not pleased . defined defended .   point faith point of faith. to the supream authority of england . tolleration ( for these ten years past ) has not been more the cry of some , then persecution hath been the practice of others , though not on grounds equally rational . the present cause of this address , is to solicite a conversion of that power to our relief , which hitherto has been imployd to our depression ; that after this large experience of our innocency , and long since expir'd apprentiship of cruel sufferings , you 〈…〉 pleased to cancel all our bonds , and give 〈…〉 of those freedoms , to which we are 〈…〉 english birthright . this has been often promised to us , and we as earnestly have expected the performance ; but to this time we labour under the unspeakable pressure of nasty prisons , and daily confiscation of our goods , to the apparent ruin of intire families . we would not attribute the whole of this severity to malice , since not a little share , may justly be ascrib'd to mis-intelligence : for 't is the infelicity of governors to see and hear by the eyes and ears of other men ; which is equally unhappy for the people . and we are bold to say , that suppositions and meer conjectures , have been the best measures , that most have taken of us , and of our principles ; for whilst there have been none more inoffensive , we have been mark't for capital offenders . 't is hard that we should alwayes lie under this undeserved imputation ; and which is worse , be persecuted as such , without the liberty of a just defence . in short , if you are apprehensive , that our principles are inconsistant with the civil government , grant us a free conference about the points in question , and let us know , what are those laws , essential to preservation , that our opinions carry an opposition to ? and if upon a due enquiry we are found so hetrodox , as represented , it will be then but time enough to inflict these heavy penalties upon us . and as this medium seems the fairest , and most reasonable ; so can you never do your selves greater justice , either in the vindication of your proceedings against us , be we criminal , or if innocent , in dis-ingaging your service of such , as have been authours of so much mis-information . but could we once obtain the favour of such debate , we doubt not to evince a clear consistency of our life and doctrine with the english government ; and that an indulging of dissenters in the sence defended , is not only most christian and rational , but prudent also . and the contrary ( how plausibly soever insinuated ) the most injurious to the peace and destructive of that discreet ballance , which the best and wisest states , have ever carefully observ'd . but if this fair and equal offer , find not a place with you , on which to rest its foot ; much less that it should bring us back the olive branch of tolleration ; we heartily embrace and bless the providence of god ; and in his strength resolve , by patience , to outweary persecution , and by our constant sufferings , seek to obtain a victory , more glorious , than any our adversaries can atchive by all their cruelties . vincit qui patitur . newgate , the th of the th moneth , call'd february , . from a prisoner for conscience sake , w. p. the preface . vvere some as christian , as they boast themselves to be , 't would save us all the labour we bestow in rendring persecution so unchristian , as it most truly is : nay were they those men of reason they character themselves , and what the civil law stiles good citizens , it had been needless for us to tell them , that neither can any external coercive power convince the understanding of the poorest idiot , nor fines and prisons be judg'd fit , and adequate penalties for faults purely intellectual ; as well as that they are destructive of all civil government . but we need not run so far as beyond the seas , to fetch the sence of the codes , institutes , and digests , out of the corpus civile to adjudge such practices , incongruous with the good of civil society , since our own good , old , admirable laws of england , have made such excellent provision for its inhabitants , that if they were but thought as fit to be executed by this present age , as they were lightly judg'd necessary to be made by our careful ancestors : we know how great a stroak they would give such , as venture to lead away our property in triumph ( as our just forfeiture ) for only worshipping our god in a differing way , from that which is more generally profest and establisht . and indeed it is most truly lamentable , that above others ( who have been found in so un-natural and anti-christian an imployment ) those , that by their own frequent practices and voluminous appologies , have defended a separation from the papacy ) should now become such earnest persecuters for it , not considering , that the enaction of such laws , as restrain persons from the free exercise of their consciences , in matters of religion , is but a knotting whip cord to lash their own posterity ; whom they can never promise to be conformed to a national religion . nay , since mankind is subject to such mutability , they can't ensure themselves , from being taken by some perswasions , that are esteem'd hetrodox , and consequently ketch themselves in snares of their own providing . and that men thus lyable to change , and no wayes certain of their own belief to be the most infallible , ) as by their multiply'd concessions , may appear ) to enact any religion , or prohibit persons from the free exercise of theirs , sounds harsh in the ears of all modest and unbya'st men . we are bold to say our protestant ancestors thought of nothing less , then to be succeeded by persons vain-glorious of their reformation , and yet adversaries to liberty of conscience ; for to people in their wits , it seems a paradox . not that we are so ignorant , as to think is within the reach of humane power to fetter conscience , or to restrain its liberty strictly taken : but that plain english , of liberty of conscience , we would be understood to mean , is this ; namely , the free and uninterrupted exercise of our consciences , in that way of worship , we are most clearly perswaded , god requires us to serve him in ( without endangering our undoubted birth-right of english freedoms ) which being matter , of faith , we sin if we omit , and they can't do less , that shall endeavour it . to tell us , we are obstinate and enemies to government , are but those groundless phrases , the first reformers were not a little pestered with ; but as they said , so say we , the being call'd this , or that , does not conclude us so ; and hitherto we have not been detected of that fact , which only justifies , such criminations . but however free we can approve our selves of actions prejudicial of the civil government ; 't is most certain we have not suffered a little , as criminals , and therefore have been far from being free from sufferings ; indeed , in some respect , horrid plunders : widdows have lost their cows , orphans their beds , and labourers their tools . a tragedy so said , that methinks it should obliege them to do in england , as they did at athens ; when they had sacrificed their divine socrates to the sottish fury of their lewd and commical multitude , they so regreeted their hasty murder , that not only the memorial of socrates was most venerable with them , but his enemies they esteemed so much theirs , that none would trade or hold the least commere with them ; for which some turned their own executioners , and without any other warrant then their own guilt , hang'd themselves . how neer a kin the wretched mercenary informers of our age are to those , the great resemblance that is betwixt their actions manifestly shews . and we are bold to say , the grand fomenters of persecution , are no better friends to the english state , then were anytus and aristophanes of old to that of athens , the case being so nearly the same , as that they did not more bitterly envy the reputation of socrates amongst the athenians for his grave and religious lectures ( thereby giving the youth a diversion from frequenting their plays ) then some now emulate the true dissenter , for his pious life , and great industry . and as that famous commonwealth was noted to decline , and the most observing persons of it , dated its decay from that illegal and ingrateful carriage towards socrates ( witness their dreadful plagues , with other multiply'd disasters ) so is it not less worthy observation , that heaven hath not been wholly wanting to scourge this land , for , as well as their cruelty to the conscientious , as their other multiply'd provocations . and when we seriously consider the dreadful judgments that now impend the nation ( by reason of the robbery , violence , and unwonted oppression ; that almost everywhere , have not only been committed , upon the poor , the widdow , and the fatherless ; but most tenaciously justified , and the actors manifestly encourag'd ) in meer pitty , and concern , for the everlasting welfare of such as have not quite sinn'd away their visitation ( for some have ) we once more bring to publique view , our reasons against persecution , backt with the plainest instances , both of scripture and antiquity . if but one may be perswaded , to desist from making any farther progress in such an anti-protestant , and truly anti-christian path , as that of persecuting honest and vertuous english men , for only worshipping the god that made them , in the way they judge most acceptable with him . but if those , who ought to think themselves oblieg'd to weigh these affairs with the greatest deliberation , will obstinately close their eyes , to these last remonstrances ; and slightly over-look the pinching case of so many thousand families , that are by these severities expos'd for prey , to the unsatiable appetites of a villanous crew of broken informers ( doubing themselves with that deluding apprehension of pleasing god , or at least of profiting the country ; ( whilst they greatly displease the one , and evidently ruin the other ) as certain as ever the lord god almighty destroy'd sodom , and lay'd waste gomorah , by the consuming flames of his just indignation ; will he hasten to make desolate this wanton land , and not leave an hiding-place for the oppressor . let no man therefore think himself too bigg to be admonish'd , nor put too slight a value upon the lives , liberties , and properties of so many thousand free-born english families , embarqu't in that one concern of liberty of conscience . it will become him better to reflect upon his own mortality , and not forget his breath is in his nostrils , and that every action of his life the everlasting god will bring to judgment , and him for them . the contents . chapter i. what is meant by liberty of conscience . what by persecution , &c. the question stated . that gods prerogative is invaded by imposition , restraint , and persecution : . they robb god of his right of creation : . they suppose infallibility in man , contrary to protestant●principles . they attribute all to man , and take gods share and his own too : . they defeat the work of his grace : . they assume the judgment seat. chap. ii. they overturn the christian religion ; . in the nature of it ; which is meekness . in the practice of it , which is suffering ; . in the promotion of it , since all further discoveries are prohibited ; . in the rewards of it , which are eternal . chap. iii. they oppose the plainest testimonies of divine writ that can be , which condemn all force upon conscience , chap. vi. they are enemies to the priviledge of nature ; . as rendring some more , and others less then men ; . as subverting the universal good that is gods gift to men ; . as destroying all natural affection . next , they are enemies to the noble principle of reason , as appears in eight great instances . chap. v. they carry a contradiction to government ; . in the nature of it , which is justice ; . in the execution of it , which is prudence ; . in the end of it , which is felicity . seven common , but grand objections , fairly stated , and briefly answered . chap. vi. they reflect upon the sense and practice of the wisest , greatest , & best states , and persons of ancient and modern times ; as of the jews , romans , aegyptians , germans , french , hollanders , nay turks and persians too . and cat● , livy , tacitus , justin martyr , tertullian , jovianus , chaucer , dominicus soto , malvetzy , grotius , raleigh , doctor and student , french and duch protestants in england , dr. hamond , dr. tayler , a nameless but great person , lactantius , hillary , jerome , chrysostom , polish and bohemian kings , king james , and king charles the first . a postscript to the whole ; explaining the tearms of the act , and vindicating peaceable meetings from sedition , &c. chap. i. that imposition , restraint , and persecution for conscience sake , highly invade divine prerogative , and divest the almighty of a right , due to none beside himself , and that in five eminent particulars . the great case of liberty of conscience so often debated and defended ( however dissatisfactorily to such as have so little conscience as to persecute for it ) is once more brought to publique view , by a late act against dissenters , and bill of an additional one , that we all hop'd the wisdom of our rulers had long since laid aside , as what was fitter to be pass'd into an act of perpetual oblivion . the kingdoms are allarum'd at this proceedure , and thousands greatly at a stand , wondring what should be the meaning of such hasty resolutions , that seem as fatal as they were unexpected : some ask what wrong they have done ; others , what peace they have broken ; and all , what plots they have form'd , to prejudice the present government , or occasions given , to hatch new jealousies of them and their proceedings , being not conscious to themselves of guilt in any such respect . for mine own part , i publickly confess my self to be a very hearty dissenter from the establish'● worship of these nations , as believing protestants to have much degenerated from their first principles , and as owning the poor despised quakers in life and doctrine , to have espous'd the cause of god , and to be undoubted followers of jesus christ , in his most holy , straight and narrow way that leads to the eternal rest . in all which i know no treason , nor any principle that would urge me to a thought injurious to the civil peace . if any be defected in this particular , 't is equal , both individuals and whole societies should answer for their own defaults , but we are clear . however , all conclude that union very ominous , and unhappy , which makes the first discovery of it self , by a john baptists head in a charger , they mean that feast some are design'd to make upon the liberties and properties of free-born english-men , since to have the i●●ail of those undoubted hereditary rights cut off for matters purely relative of another world ) is a severe beheading in the law ; which must be obvious to all , but such as measure the justice of things only by that proportion they bear with their own interest . a sort of men that seek themselves , though at the apparent loss of whole societies , like to that barbarous fancy of old , which had rather that rome should burn , then it be without the satisfaction of a bone-fire . and sad it is , when men have so far stupified their understandings with the strong doses of their private interest , as to become insensible of the publicks . certainly such an over-fondness for self , or that strong inclination , to raise themselves in the ruine of what does not so much oppose them , as that they will believe so , because they would be persecuting , is a malignant enemy to that tranquility , which all dissenting parties seem to believe , would be the consequence of a toleration . in short we say , there can be but two ends in persecution , the one to satisfie ( which none can ever do ) the insatiable appetites of a decimating clergy ( whose best arguments are fines and imprisonments ) and the other , as thinking therein they do god good service ; but 't is so hateful a thing upon any account , that we shall make it appear by this ensuing discourse , to be a declar'd enemy to god , religion , and the good of humane society . the whole will be small , since it is but an epitomy of no larger a tract then ten sheets ; yet divides it self into the same particulars , every of which we shall defend against imposition , restraint , and persecution , though not with that scope of reason ( nor consequently pleasure to the readers ) being by other contingent disappointments , limitted to a narrow stint . the tearms explained , and the question stated . first , by liberty of conscience , we understand not only a meer liberty of the mind , in believing or disbelieving this or that principle or doctrine , but the exercise of our selves in a visible way of worship , upon our believing it to be indispensibly required at our hands , that if we neglect it for fear or favour of any mortal man , we sin , and incur divine wrath : yet we would be so understood to extend and justifie the lawfulness of our so meeting to worship god , as not to contrive , or abet any contrivance distructive of the government and laws of the land , tending to matters of an external nature , directly , or indirectly ; but so far only , as it may refer to religious matters , and a life to come , and consequently wholly independent of the secular affairs of this , wherein we are suppos'd to transgress . secondly , by imposition , restraint , and persecution , we don't only mean , the strict requiring of us to believe this to be true , or that to be false ; and upon refusal , to incur the penalties enacted in such cases ; but by those tearms we mean thus much , any coersive let or hindrance to us , from meeting together to perform those religious exercises which are according to our faith and perswasion . the question stated . for proof of the aforesaid tearms thus given , we singly state the question thus . whether imposition , restraint , and persecution , upon persons for exercising such a liberty of conscience , as is before expressed , and so circumstantiated , be not to impeach the honour of god , the meekness of the christian religion , the authority of scripture , the priviledge of nature , the principles of common reason , the well-being of government , and apprehensions of the greatest personages of former and latter ages . first , then we say that imposition , restraint , and persecution , for matters relating to conscience , directly invade divine prerogative , and divest the almighty of a due , proper to none besides himself . and this we prove by these five particulars . . first , if we do allow the honour of our creation , due to god only , and that no other besides himself has endow'd us with those excellent gifts of understanding , reason , judgment , and faith , and consequently that he only is the object as well as author , both of our faith , worship , and service , then whoever shall interpose their authority to enact fa●th and worship , in a way that seems not to us congruous with what he has discover'd to us , to be faith , and worship ( whose alone property it is to do it ) or to restrain us from what we are perswaded ; is our indispensible duty , they evidently usurp this authority and invade his incommunicable right of government over conscience : for the inspiration of the almighty gives understanding : and faith is the gift of god , says the divine writ . . secondly , such magisterial determinations carry an evident claim to that infallibility , which protestants have been hitherto so jealous of owning , that to avoid the papists , they have denied it to all , but god himself . either they have forsook their old plea , or if not , we desire to know when , and where they were invested with that divine excellency , and that imposition , restraint , and persecution , were deem'd by god ever the fruits of his spirit : however , that it self were not sufficient ; for unless it appear as well to us , that they have it , as to them who have it , we cannot believe it upon any convincing evidence , but by tradition only ; an anti-protestant way of believing . . thirdly , it enthrones man as king over conscience , the alone just claim and priviledge of his creator , whose thoughts are not as mens thoughts , but has reserv'd to himself , that empire from all the caesars on earth ; for if men in reference to souls , and bodies , things appertaining to this and to'ther world , shall be subject to their fellow-creatures , what follows ? but that caesar ( however he got it ) has all , gods share , and his own too ; and being lord of both , both are caesars , and nothing gods. . fourthly , it defeats the work of his grace , and the invisible opperation of his eternal spirit , which can alone beget faith , and is only to be obey'd , in and about religion and worship , and attributes mens conformity to outward force & corporal punishments . a faith subject to as many revolutions as the powers that enact it . . fiftly and lastly , such persons assume the judgment of the great tribunal unto themselves ; for to whomsoever men are imposedly or restrictively subject and accountable in matters of faith , worship and conscience ; in them alone must the power of judgement reside ; but it is equally true that god shall judge all by jesus christ , and that no man is so accountable to his fellow creatures , as to be impos'd upon , restrain'd , or persecuted for any matter of conscience whatever . thus and in many more particulars are men accustom'd to entrench upon divine property , to gratifie particular interests in the world ( and at best ) through a misguided apprehension , to imagine they do god good service , that where they cannot give faith , they will use force , which kind of sacrifice is nothing less unreasonable , then the other is abominable : god will not give his honor to another , and to him only that searches the heart and tries t●●●●ins , it is our duty to ascribe the gifts of understanding and 〈◊〉 without which none can please god. chap. ii. the next great evil which attends externall force in matters of faith and worship , is no less then the overthrow of the whole christian religion , and this we will briefly evidence in these four particulars . . first , that there can be nothing more remote from the nature . secondly , the practice . . thirdly , the promotion . fourthly , the rewards of it . . first , it is the priviledge of the christian faith above the dark suggestions of ancient and modern superstious traditions , to carry with it a most self evidencing verity , which ever was sufficient to proselite believers , without the weak auxilaries of external power ; the son of god , and great example of the world , was so far from calling his father's omnipotency in legions of angels to his defence , that he at once repeal'd all acts of force , and defin'd unto us the nature of his religion in this one great saying of his , my kingdom is not of this world . it was spiritual , not carnall , accompanied with weapons , as heavenly as its own nature , and design'd for the good and salvation of the soul , and not the injury and destruction of the body : no goals , fines , exiles &c. but sound reason , clear truth , and a strict life . in short , the christian religion intreats all , but compells none . . secondly , that restraint and persecution overturn the practise of it ; i need go no further then the allow'd martyrologies of several ages , of which the scriptures claim a share ; begin with abel go down to moses , so to the prophets , and then to the meek example of jesus christ himself ; how patiently devoted was he , to undergo the contradictions of men ? and so far from persecuting any , that he would not so much as revile his persecutors , but pray'd for them ; thus liv'd his apostles and the true christians , of the first three hundred years : nor are the famous stories of our first reformers silent in the matter ; witness the christian practises of the waldenses , lollards , hussites , lutherans , and our noble martyrs , who as became the true followers of jesus christ , enacted and confirm'd their religion , with their own blood , and not with the blood of their opposers . . thirdly , restraint and persecution obstructs the promotion of the christian religion , for if such as restraint , confess themselves miserable sinners , and altogether imperfect , it either followes , that they never desire to be better , or that they should incourage such as may be capable of further informing and reforming them ; they condemn the papists for enco●●ening the scriptures and their worship in an unknown tongue , and yet are guilty themselves of the same kind of fact . . fourthly , they prevent many of eternal rewards , for where any are religious for fear , and that of men , 't is slavish ; and the recompence , of such religion is condemnation , not peace : besides , 't is man that is serv'd , who having no power but what is temporary , his reward must needs be so too ; he that imposes a duty , or restrains from one , must reward ; but because no man can reward for such duties , no man can or ought to impose them , or restrain from them . so that we conclude imposition , restraint , and persecution , are destructive , of the christian religion , in the nature , practice , promotion and rewards of it , which are eternall . chap. iii. we further say , that imposition , restraint , and persecution are repugnant to the plain testimonies and precepts of the scriptures . the inspiration of the almighty gives understanding , . job . . if no man can believe before he understands , and no man can understand before he is inspir'd of god , then are the impositions of men excluded as unreasonable , and their persecutions for non-obedience as inhumane . wo unto them that take counsell , but not of me , . isa : . . wo unto them that make a man an offender for a word , and lay a snare for him that reproves in the gate , and turns aside the just for a thing of naught , . isa . . , . let the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of the harvest , or end of the world. . mat. . , , . and jesus call'd them unto him , and said ye know that the princes of the gentiles exercise dominion over them , and they that are greatest exercise authority upon them , but it shall not be so amongst you . ma●t : ▪ , . and jesus answering said unto them , render unto caesar the things that are cesars , and unto god the things that are gods , luke . , , , , . when his disciples saw this ( that there were non-conformists then as well as now ) they said , wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven and consume them , as elisha did ; but be turned , and rebuk'd them , and said , ye know not what spirit ye are of ; for the son of man is not come to destroy me●s lives but to save them , . luke . . . howbeit , when the spirite of truth is come , he shall lead you into all truth . ● . john . , . but now the anointing which ye have received of him abides in you , and you need not that any man teach you ( much less impose upon any , or restrain them from what any are perswaded it leads to ) but as the same anointing teaches you of all things and is truth , and is not lye . . iohn . , , . dearly beloved , avenge not your selves but rather give place unto wrath ( much less should any be wrath that are call'd christians where no occasion is given ) therefore if thine enemy hunger feed him , and if he thirst , give him drink ; recompence no man evil for evil. rom. . , , . for though we walk in the flesh ( that is in the body or visible world ) we do not war after the flesh , for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal . . cor. . , . ( but fines and imprisonments are , and such use not the apostles weapons that employ those ) for a bishop , tim. . ( saith paul ) must be of a good behaviour , apt to teach , no striker , but be gentle unto all men , patient in meekness , instructing ( not persecuting ) those that oppose themselves , if god peradventure will give them , repentance to the acknowledgment of the truth , tim. . , . lastly , we shall subjoyn one passage more , and then no more of this particular ; whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , do ye even so unto them . . matt. . . luke . . now upon the whole we seriously ask , whether any should be impo'd upon , or restrain'd , in matters of faith and worship ? whether such practices become the gospel , or are sutable to christs meek precepts and suffering doctrine ? and lastly , whether those , who are herein guilty , do to us , as they would be done unto by others ? what if any were once severe to you ; many are unconcern'd in that , who are yet lyable to the lash , as if they were not . but if you once thought , the imposition of a directory unreasonable , and a restraint from your way of worship unchristian , can you believe that liberty of conscience is changed , because the parties in points of power are ? or that the same reasons do not yet remain in vindication of an indulgeance for others , that were once employ'd by you for your selves ? surely such conjectures would argue gross weakness . to conclude , whether persecutors at any time , read the scriptures we know not ; but certain we are , such practise as little of them as may be , who with so much delight reject them , and think it no small accession to the discovery of their loyalty , to lead us and our properties in triumph after them . chap. iv. we further say , that imposition , restraint , and persecution are also destructive of the great priviledge of nature and principle of reason . of nature in three instances : . first , if god almighty has made of one blood all nations , as himself has declar'd , and that he has given them both sences corporal and intellectual , to discern things and their differences , so as to assert or deny from evidences and reasons proper to each ; then where any enacts the belief or disbelief of any thing upon the rest , or restrains any from the exercise of their faith to them indispensible , such exalts himself beyond his bounds , enslaves his fellow-creatures , invades their right of liberty , and so pervert the whole order of nature . . secondly , mankind is hereby rob'd of the use and benefit of that instinct of a diety , which is so natural to him , that he can be no more without it , and be , then he can be without the most essential part of himself ; for to what serves that divine principle in the universallity of mankind , if men be restricted by the prescriptions of some individuals ? but if the excellent nature of it , inclines men to god , not man ; if the power of accusing and excusing be committed to it ; if the troubled thoughts and sad afflictions of forlorn and dying men , make their tendency that a way only , ( as being hopeless of all other relief and succour from any external power or command ) what shall we say ? but that such as invallid the authority of this heavenly instinct , ( as imposition and restraint evidently do ) destroy nature , or that priviledge which men are born with , and to . . all natural affection is destroy'd ; for those who have so little tenderness , as to persecute men that cannot for conscience sake yield them compliance , manifestly act injuriously to their fellow-creatures , and consequently are enemies to nature ; for nature being one in all , such as ruin those who are equally intitled with themselves to nature , ruin it in them , as in liberty , property , &c. and so bring the state of nature to the state of war , the great leviathan of the times , as ignorantly as boldly does assert . . but secondly , we also prove them destructive of the noble principle of reason , and that in these eight perticulars . . first , in that those who impose or restrain are uncertain of the truth and justifiableness of their actions in either of this , their own discourses and confessions are pregnant instances , where they tell us , that they do not pretend to be infallible , only they humbly conceive 't is thus , or it is not . since then they are uncertain and fallible , how can they impose upon , or restrain others whom they are so far from assuring , as they are not able to do so much for themselves ? what is this , but to impose an uncertain faith upon certain penalties ? . as he that acts doubtfully is damn'd , so faith in all acts of religion is necessary ▪ now in order to believe , we must first will ; to will , we must first judge ; to judge any thing , we must first understand ; if then we cannot be said to understand any thing against our understanding ; no more ca● we judge , will , and believe against our understanding : and if the doubter be damn'd , what must he be that conform directly against his judgment and belief , and they likewise that require it from him ? in short , that man cannot be said to have any religion , that takes it by another mans choice , not his own . . where men are limitted in matters of religion , there the rewards which are entail'd on the free acts of men , are quite overthrown ; and such as superceed that grand charter of liberty of conscience , frustrate all hopes of recompence , by rendring the actions of men unavoidable : but those think perhaps , they do not destroy all freedom , because they use so much of their own . . fifthly , they subvert all true religion ; for where men believe not because it is true , but because they are required to do so , there they will unbelieve , not because 't is false , but so commanded by their superiors , whose authority their interest and security obliege them rather to obey , then dispute . . sixthly , they delude , or rather compel people out of their eternal rewards ; for where men are commanded to act in reference to religion , and can neither be secur'd of their rewards , nor yet sav'd harmless from punishments ; their so acting and believing dispriviledges them forever of that recompence , which is provided for the faithful . . seventhly , men have their liberty and choice in external matters ; they are not compelled to marry this person , to converse with that , to buy here , to eat there , nor to sleep yonder ; yet if men had power to impose or restrain in any thing ▪ one would think it should be in such exteriour matters ; but that this liberty should be unquestion'd , and that of the mind destroy'd issues here , that it does not unbruit us , but unman us ; for take away understanding , reason , judgment , and faith , and like nebuchadnezar , let us go graze with the beasts of the field . . eightly and lastly , that which most of all blackens the business is persecution ; for though it is very unreasonable to require faith , where men cannot chuse but doubt , yet after all , to punish them for disobedience , 't is cruelty in the abstract ; for we demand , shall men suffer for not doing when they cannot do ? must they be persecuted here if they do not go against their conscience , and punished hereafter if they do ? but neither is this all ; for that part that is yet most unreasonable , and that gives the clearest sight of persecution , is still behind , namely , the monstrous arguments they have to convince an heretick with : not those of old , as spiritual as the christian religion , which were to admonish , warn , and finally to reject ; but such as were imploy'd by the persecuting jews and heathens against the great example of the world , and such as follow'd him , aud by the inhuman papists against our first reformers , as clubbs , staves , stocks , pillories , prisons , dungeons , exiles , &c. in a word , ruin to whole families , as if it were not so much their design to convince the soul , as to destroy the body . to conclude , there ought to be an adequation and resemblance betwixt all ends , and the means to them , but in this case there can be none imaginable ; the end is the conformity of our judgments and understandings to the acts of such as require it , the means are fines and imprisonments ( and bloody knocks to boot . now what proportion or assimulation these bear , let the sober judge : the understanding can never be convinc'd , nor properly submit , but by such arguments , as are rational , perswasive , and sutable to its own nature ; something that can resolve its doubts , answer its objections , enervate its propositions , but to imagine those barbarous newgate instruments of clubbs , fines , prisons , &c. with that whole troop of external and dumb materials of force should be fit arguments to convince the understanding , scatter its scruples , & finally , convert it to their religion is altogether irrational , cruel , and impossible . force may make an hipocrite ; 't is faith grounded upon knowledge , & consent that makes a christian . and to conclude , as we can never betray the honour of our conformity ( only due to truth ) by a base and timorous hypocrisie to any external violence under heaven , so must we needs say , unreasonable are those imposers , who secure not the imposed or restrained from what may occur to them , upon their account ; and most inhuman are those persecutors that punish men for not obeying them though to their utter ruin . chap. v. we next urge , that force in matters relating to conscience , carry a plain contradiction to government in the nature , execution , and end of it . by government we understand , an external order of justice or the right and prudent disciplining of any society , by just laws , either in the relaxation , or execution of them . . first it carries a contradiction to government in the nature of it , which is justice , and that in three respects . . it is the first lesson that great synterisis , so much renowned by phylos●phers and civilians , learns mankind , to do as one would be done to , since he that gives , what he would not take , or takes what he would not give , only shews care for himself , but neither kindness nor justice for another . . secondly , the just nature of government lies in a fair and equal retribution ; but what can be more unequal , then that men should be rated more then their proportion , to answer the necessities of government , and yet that they should not only receive no protection from it , but by it be disseiz'd of their dear liberty and properties ; we say to be compell'd to pay that power , that exerts it self to ruin those that pay it , or that any should be requir'd to enrich those , that ruin them , is hard , and unequal , and therefore contrary to the just nature of government . if we must be contributaries , to the maintenance of it , we are entituled to a protection from it . . thirdly , it is the justice of government to proportion penalties to the crime committed . now granting our dissent to be a fault , yet the infliction of a corporal or external punishment , for a meer mental error ( and that not voluntarily too ) is unreasonable and inadequate , as well as against particular directions of the scriptures , t it . , , . for as corporal penalties cannot convince the understanding ; so neither can then be commensurate punishments , for faults purely intellectual : and for the goverment of this world to intermed●●e with what belongs to the government of another , and which can have no ill aspect or influence upon it , shews more of invasion then right and justice . . secondly , it carries a contradition to government in the execution of it , which is prudence , and that in these instances . the state of the case is this , that there is no republick so great , no empire so vast , but the laws of them are resolvable into these two series or heads , of laws fundamental , which are indispensible and immutable : and laws superficial , which are temporary and alterable : and as it is justice and prudence to be punctual in the execution of the former , so by circumstances it may be neither , to execute the latter , they being suited to the present conveniency and emergency of state ; as the prohibiting of cattle out of ireland , was judg'd of advantage to the farmers of england , yet a murrin would make it the good of the whole , that the law should be broke , or at least the execution of it suspended . that the law of restraint in point of conscience is of this number ; we may further manifest , and the imprudence of thinking otherwise : for , first , if the saying were as true as 't is false ; no bishop , no king , ( which admits of various readings ; as no decimating clergy , or no persecution , no king , we should be as silent , as some would have us : but the confidence of their assertion , and the impollicy of such as believe it , makes us to say , that a greater injury cannot be done to the present government . for if such laws and establishments are fundamental ; they are as immutable as mankind it self ; but that they are as alterable as the conjectures and opinions of governors have been , is evident ; since the same fundamental indispensable laws and pollicy of these kingdoms have still remain'd , through all variety of opposite ruling opinions and judgments , and disjoynt from them all . therefore to admit such a fixation to temporary laws , must needs be highly imprudent , and destructive of the essential parts of the government of these countries . . secondly , that since there has been a time of connivance , and that with no ill success to publick affairs , it cannot be prudence to discontinue it , unless it was imprudence before to give it , and such little deserve it that think so . . thirdly , dissenters not being conscious to themselves of any just forfeiture of that favour , are as well griev'd in their resentments of this alteration , as the contrary did oblige them to very gratefull acknowledgments . . fourthly , this must be done to gratifie all , or the greatest part , or but some few only ; it is a demonstration all are pleased with it ; that the greatest number is not , the empty publick auditories will speak : in short , how should either be , when six parties are sacrificed to the seventh ; that this cannot be prudence , common maxims and observations prove . . fifthly , it strikes fatally at protestant-sincerity ; for will the papists say , did protestants exclaim against us , for persecutors , and are they now the men themselves ? was it an instance of weakness in our religion , and is 't become a demonstration in theirs ? have they transmuted it from antichristian in us , to christian in themselves ? let persecutors answer . . sixthly , it is not only an example , but an incentive to the romanists , to persecute the reformed religion abroad ; for when they see their actions ( once void of all excuse ) now defended by the example of protestants , that once accus'd them ( but now themselves ) doubtless they will revive their cruelty . . seventhly , it overturns the very ground of the protestants retreat from rome ; for if men must be restrain'd upon pretended prudential considerations , for the exercise of their conscience in england ; why not the same in france , holland , germany , constantinople , &c. where matters of state may equally be pleaded ? this makes religion , state-pollicy ; and faith and worship , subservient to the humors and interests of superiors : such doctrine would have prevented our ancestors retreat ; and we wish it be not the beginning of a back-march ; for some think it shrewdly to be suspected , where religion is suited to the government , and conscience to it's conveniency . . eighthly , vice is incourag'd ; for if licentious persons see men of vertue molested for assembling with a religious purpose to reverence and worship god , and that are otherwise most serviceable to the common-wealth , they may and will inferr , it is better for them to be as they are since not to be demur , as they call it , is half way to that kind of accomplishment , which procures preferment . . ninthly , for such persons as are so poor spirited as to truckle under such restraints ; what conquest is there over them ? that before were conscientious men , and now hypocrites ; who so forward to be aveng●● of them , that brought this guilt upon them , as they themselves ? and how can the imposers be secure of their friendship , whom they have taught to change with the times ? . tenthly , such laws are so far from benefiting the country , that the execution of them will be the assured ruin of it , in the revenues , and consequently in the power of it ; for where there is a decay of families , there will be of trade ; so of wealth , and in the end of strength and power ; and if both kinds of relief fail ; men , the prop of republiques ; money , the stay of monarchies ; this as requiring mercenaries , that as needing freemen ( farewell the interest of england ; 't is true , the priests get ( though that 's but for a time ) but the king and people lose ; as the event will shew . . eleventhly , it ever was the prudence of wise magistrates of obliege their people ; but what comes shorter of of it then persecution ? what 's dearer to them then the liberty of their conscience ? what cannot they better spare then it ? their peace consists in the enjoyment of it : and he that by compliance has lost it , carries his penalty with him , and is his own prison . surely such practices must render the government uneasie , and beget a great disrespect to the governours , in the hearts of the people . . twelfthly , but that which concludes our prudential part , shall be this , that after all their pains and good-will to stretch men to their measure , they never will be able to accomplish their end : and if he be an unwise man , hat provides means where he designs no end , how neer is be kin to him that proposes an end inobtainable . experience has told us . . how invective it has made the impos'd . . what distractions have insued such attempts . . what reproach has follow'd to the christian religion , when the professors of it have us'd a coercive power upon conscience . and lastly , that force never yet made , either a good christian or a good subject . . thirdly and lastly , since the proceedings we argue against , are prov'd so destructive to the justice and prudence of government , we ought the less to wonder that they should hold the same malignity against the end of it , which is felicity , since the wonder would be to find it otherwise ; and this is evident from these three brief considerations . . first , peace ( the end of war and government , and its great happiness too ) has been , is , and yet will be broken by the frequent tumultuary disturbances , that ensue the disquieting our meetings , and the estreeting fines upon our goods and estates . and what these things may issue in , concerneth the civil magistrate to consider . . secondly , plenty ( another great end of government ) will be converted into poverty by the destruction of so many thousand families as refuse compliance and conformity , and that not only to the sufferers , but influentially to all , the rest ; a demonstration of which we have in all those places where the late act has been any thing considerably put in execution . besides , how great provocation such incharity and cruel usage , as stripping widdows , fatherless , and poor of their very necessaries for human life , meerly upon an account of faith or worship , must needs be to the just and righteous lord of heaven and earth ; scriptures , and plenty of other stories plainly shew us . . thirdly , unity ( not the least but greatest end of government is lost ) for by seeking an unity of opinion ( by the wayes intended ) the unity requisit to uphold us , as a civil society , will be quite destroy'd . and such as relinquish that , to get the other ( besides that they are unwise ) will infallibly lose both in the end . in short , we say , that 't is unreasonable we should not he entertain'd as men , because some think we are not as good christians as they pretend to wish us ; or that we should be depriv'd of our liberties and properties , who never broke the laws that gave them to us : what can be harder , then to take that from us by a law , which the great indulgence and solicitude of our ancestors took so much pains to intail upon us by law ; an. ed. . stat . also stat . . ed. . cap. . again petition of right , an. . car. and more fully in magna charta ; further peruse ed. . cap. . . ed. . cap. . hen. cap. . and we are perswaded , that no temporary subsequential law whatever , to our fundamental rights ( as this of force on conscience is ) can invalid so essential a part of the government , as an english liberty and property : nor that it 's in the power of any on earth , to deprive us of them , till we have first done it our selves , by such enormious facts , as those very laws prohibit , and make our forfeiture of that benefit we should otherwise receive by them ; for these being such cardinal and fundamental points of english law-doctrine , individually , and by the collective body of the people agreed to ; and on which as the most solid basis , our secondary legislative power , as well as executive is built ; it seems most rational that the superstructure cannot quarrel or invalid its own foundation , without manifestly endangering its own security , the effect is ever less noble then the cause , the gift then the giver , and the superstructure then the foundation . the single question to be resolved in the case , briefly will be this , whether any visible authority ( being founded in its primitive institution upon those fundamental laws , that inviolably preserve the people in all their just rights and priviledges ) may invalidate all , or any of the said laws , without an implicit shaking of its own foundation , and a clear overthrow of its own constitution of government , and so reduce them to their statu quo prius , or first principles : the resolution is every mans , at his own pleasure . read hen. . . . . ed . book justit . . . , . those who intend us no share or interest in the laws of england , as they relate to civil matters , unless we correspond with them in points of faith and worship , must do two things : first , it will lie heavy on their parts to prove , that the ancient compact and original of our laws , carries that proviso with it ; else we are manifestly diseized of our free-customs . secondly , they are to prove the reasonableness of such proceedings to our understandings , that we may not be concluded by a law , we know not how to understand ; for if i take the matter rightly ( as i think i do ) we must not buy or sell unless of this or that perswasion in religion ; not considering civil society was in the world before the protestant profession ; men , as such , and in affairs peculiarly relative of them , in an external and civil capacity , have subsisted many ages , under great variety of religious apprehensions , and therefore not so dependent on them as to receive any variation or revolution with them . what shall we say then ? but that some will not that we should live , breath , and commerce as men , because we are not such model'd christians as they coercively would have us ; they might with as much justice and reputation to themselves forbid us to look or see unless our eyes were grey , black , brown , blew , or some one colour best suiting theirs : for not to be able to give us faith , or save our consciences harmless , and yet to persecute us for refusing conformity , is intollerable hard measure . in short , that coercive way of bringing all men to their height of perswasion , must either arise from ex●rbitant zeal and superstition ; or from a consciousness of error and defect , which is unwilling any thing more sincere , and reformed should take place ; being of that cardinals mind , who therefore would not hearken to a reformation , at the sitting of the counsel of trent ; because he would not so far approve the reformers judgment ( for having once condescended to their apprehensions , he thought 't would forever inslave them to their sence ) though otherwise he saw as much as any man , the grand necessity of a reformation , both of the roman doctrine and conversation . some grand objections in the way must be considered . objection . but you are a people that meet with designs to disaffect the people , and to ruin the government . answer , a surmis● is no certainty , neither is a may be , or conjecture , any proof ; that from the first we have behaved our selves inoffensively is a demonstration ; that our meetings are open , where all may hear our matter , and have liberty to object or discuse any point , is notorious . ignorant calumnies are sandy foundations to build so high a charge upon : let us fairly be heard in a publique conference , how far we can justifie our principles from being deservedly suspected of sedition or disloyalty , and not over-run us with meer suppositions . we declare our readiness to obey the ordinance of man , which is only relative of human or civil matters , and not points of faith , or practise in worship : but if accusations must stand for proofs , we shall take it for granted , that we must stand for criminals ; but our satisfaction will be , that we shall not deserve it otherwise then as prejudice seeks to traduce us . object . . but you strike at the doctrine , at least the discipline of the church , and consequently are hereticks . answ . this story is as old as the reformation ; if we must be objected against out of pure reputation , let it be in some other matter then what the papists objected against the first protestants ; otherwise you do but hit your selves in aiming at us ? to say you were in the right , but we are in the wrong , is but a meer begging of the question ; for doubtless the papists said the same to you , and all that you can say to us : your best plea was , conscience upon principles , the most evident and rational to you : do not we the like ? what if you think our reasons thick , and our ground of separation mistaken ? did not the papists harbour the same thoughts of you ? you perswaded as few of them , as we of you : were you therefore in the wrong ? no more are we : it was not what they thought of you , or enacted against you , that concluded you : and why should your apprehensions conclude us ? if you have the way of giving faith beyond what they had , and have the faculty of perswasion , evidence as much ; but if you are as destitute of both , as they were to you ; why should fines and prisons , once us'd by them against you , and by you exclaimed against , as unchristian wayes of reclaiming hereticks ( supposing your selves to be such ) be employ'd by you as rational , christian , and convincing upon us ? to say we deserve them more , is to suppose your selves in the right , and we in the wrong , which proves nothing . besides , the question is not barely this , whether hereticks or no hereticks ; but whether an heretick should be persecuted into a disclaiming of his error ; your old arguments run thus , as i well remember . . error is a mistake in the understanding . . this is for want of a better illumination . . this error can never be dislodged , but by reason and perswasion , as what are most suitable to the intellect of man. . fines , goals , exiles , gibbets , &c. are no convincing arguments to the most erring understanding in the world , being slavish and bruitish . . this way of force makes , instead of an honest dissenter , but an hypocritical conformist ; then whom nothing is more detestable to god and man. this being the protestants plea , we are not to be disliked by protestants , for following their own avow'd maxims and axioms of conscience in defence of its own liberty . in short , either allow separation upon the single principle of , my conscience owns this , or disowns that ; or never dwell in that building , which knew no better foundation ( indeed good enough ) but accusing your fore-fathers of schism , and heresie , return to the romish church . what short of this can any say to an anti-liberty-of-conscience-protestant . object . . but at this rate ye may pretend to cut our throats , and do all manner of savage acts. answ . though the objection be frequent , yet it is as fouly ridiculous . we are pleading only for such a liberty of conscience , as preserves the nation in peace , trade , and commerce ; and would not exempt any man , or party of men , from not keeping those excellent laws , that tend to sober , just , and industrious living . it is a jesuitical morral , to kill a man before he is born : first , to suspect him of an evil design , and then kill him to prevent it . object . . but do not you see what has been the end of this separation ? wars , and revolutions , and danger to government ; witness our late troubles . ans . we see none of all this , but are able to make it app●ar , that the true cause of all that perplext disturbance , which was amongst the homousians & arrians of old , & among us of later years ( as well as what has modernly attended our neighbouring countries ) tooks its first rise from a narrowness of spirit , in not tollerating others to live the freemen god made them , in external matters upon the earth , meerly upon some difference in religion . and were there once but an hearty tolleration establisht , 't would be a demonstration of the truth of this assertion . on this ground , empire stands safe ; on the other , it seems more uncertain . but these are only the popular devices of some to traduce honest men , and their principles ; whose lazy life , and intollerable avarice become question'd , by a tolleration of people better inclin'd . object . but what need you take this pains to prove liberty of conscience reasonable and necessary , when none questions it ; all that is required is , that you meet but four more then your own families ; and can you not be contented with that ? your disobedience to a law , so favourable , brings suffering upon you . answ . here is no need of answering the former part of the objection ; 't is too apparent throughout the land , that liberty of conscience , as we have stated it , has been severely prosecuted , and therefore not so franckly injoyed : the latter part , i answer thus , if the words lawful or unlawful , may bear their signification from the nature of the things they stand for , then we conceive that a meeting of four thousand is no more unlawful , then a meeting of four ; for number singly consider'd criminates no assembly : but the reason of their assembling ; the posture in which ; and the matter transacted , with the consequences thereof . now if those things are taken for granted , to be things dispensible ( as appears by the allowance of four besides every family ) certainly the number can never render it unlawful ; so that the question will be this , whether if four met to worship god , be an allowable meeting , four thousand met with the same design be not an allowable meeting ? it is so plain a case , that the matter in the question resolves it . object . . but the law forbids it . answ . if the enacting any-thing can make it lawful , we have done ; but if an act so made by the papists against protestants , was never esteem'd so by a true protestant ; and if the nature of the matter will not bear it ; and lastly , that we are as much commanded by god to meet four thousand as four ; we must desire to be excused , if we forbear not the assembling of our selves together , as the manner of some is . object . . but the reason of the prohibition of the number is ( for you see they allow all that can be said to four thousand to be to said the family and four ) that tumults may arise , and plots may be made , and the like inconveniences happen to the goverment . answ . great assemblies are so far from being injurious , that they are the most inoffensive ; for , first , they are open , exposed to the view of all , which of all things plotters are the shyest of ; but how fair an opportunity 't were , for men so principled , to do it in those allowed meetings of but four besides the family , is easie to guess , when we consider , that few make the best and closest council ; and next , that such an assembly is the most private and clandestine , and so fitted for mischief and surprize . secondly , such assemblies , are not only publique and large , but they are frequented , as well by those that are not of their way , as of their own ; from whence it follows , that we have the greatest reason to be cautious and wise in our behaviour , since the more there be at our meetings , the more witnesses are against us , if we should say or act any thing that may be prejudicial to the government . lastly , for these several years none could ever observe such an ill use made of that freedom , or such wicked designs to follow such assemblies ; and therefore it is high incharity to proceed so severely upon meer suppositions . to this we shall add several authorities and testimonies for further confirmation of our sense of the matter , and to let imposers see , that we are not the only persons , who have impleaded persecution , and justified liberty of conscience , as christian and rational . chap. vi. a brief collection of the sence and practice of the greattest , wisest , and learnedst common-wealths , kingdoms , and particular persons of their times , concerning force upon conscience . . first , though the jews above all people had the most to say for imposition and restraint within their own dominions , having their religion instituted by so many signal proofs of divine original , it being deliver'd to them by the hand of god himself , yet such was their indulgence to dissenters , that if they held the common receiv'd noachical principles tending to the acknowledgment of one god , and a just life , they had the free exercise of their distinct modes or wayes of worship , which were numerous . of this their own rabbies are witnesses , and grotius out of them . secondly , the romans themselves , as strict as they were , not only had thirty thousand godds ( if varro may be credited ) but almost every family of any note , had its distinct sacra , or peculiar way of worship . . thirdly , it was the sence of that grave , exemplary common-wealths man , cato , in salust , that among other things which ruin any government want of freedom of speech , or mens being oblieged to humor times is a great one ; which we find made good by the ●●wrentine republick , as guicceardine relates . . fourthly , livy tells us , it was a wonder that hannibals army , consisting of divers nations , divers humors , differing habits , contrary religions , various languages , should live years from their own country under his command without so much as once mutining , either against their general , or among themselves . but what livy relates for a wonder that ingenious marquess , virgilio malvetzy gives the reason of , namely , that the difference of their opinion , tongues , and customs , was the reason of their preservation and conquest ; for said he , 't was impossible so many contrary spirits should combine , and if any should have done it , 't was in the generals power to make the greater party by his equal hand ; they owing him more of reverence , then they did of affection to one an another : this , says he , some impute to hannibal , but how great soever he was , i give it to the variety of humors in the army . for ( adds he ) romes army was ever less given to mutining when joyned with the provincial auxilaries , then when intirely roman ; thus much and more , in his publique discourses upon cornelius tacitus . . fifthly , the same , best statist of his time , c. tacitus , tells us in the case of cremtius , that it had been the interest of tiberius not to have punished him , in as much as curiosity is begotten by restriction of liberty to write or speak , which never mist of proselites . . sixthly , just . martin . i will forbear to quote , in less then this , two whole apollogies , dedicated to adrian and antonius pius , as i take it . seventhly , tertullian ad scapulum , that learned and juditious appollogist , plainly tells us . that 't is not the property of religion to compel or persecute for religion , she should be accepted for her self , not for force ; that being a poor and beggarly one , that has no beeter arguments to convince ; and a manifest evide●ce of her superstition and falshood . . eightly , of this we take the nine moneths reign of the emperor jovianus to be an excellent demonstration , whose great wisdom , and admirable prudence ingranting tolleration ( expresly saying , he would have none 〈…〉 for the exercise of their religious worship ) calm'd the impetuous storms of dissention betwixt homousians and arrians ; and reduc'd the whole empire , before agitated with all kinds of commotions during the reign of constantine , constantius , and julian , to a wonderful serenity and peace , as socrates scholasticus affirms . . ninthly , that little kingdom of aegypt had no less then forty thousand persons retir'd to their private and seperate wayes of worship , as eusebius out of philo judeus , and josephus relates . . tenthly ; and here let me bring in honest chaucer , whose matter ( and not his poetry ) heartely affects me : 't was in a time when priests were as rich , and lofty , as they are now , and causes of evil alike . a the time was once , and may return again , ( for oft may happen that hath been befor● ) when shepherds had none inheritance , ne of land , nor fee insufferance , but what might arise of the bare sheep , ( were it more or less ) which they did keep , well ywis was it with shepherds tho : nought having , nought fear'd they to forgo , for pan ( god ) himself was their inheritance , and little them serv'd for their maintenance , the shepherds god so well them guided , that of nought were they unprovided ; b butter enough , honey , milk , and whay , and their flock fleeces them to array . but tract of time and long prosperity , ( that nurse of vice , this of insolency ) lulled the shepheards in such security , that not content with loyal obeysance , some gan to gap for greedy governance , and match themselves with mighty potentates . c lovers of lordships and troublers of states ; then gan shepheards swains to look aloft , and leave to live hard , and learn to lig soft , though under colour of shepheards some while there crept in , wolves full of fraud and guile , that often devour'd their own sheep , and often the shepheard that did them keep , d this was the first source of the shepherds sorrow . that nor will be quit , with hale , nor borrow . ii. who knows not that our first reformers were great champions for liberty of conscience , as wicklif in his remonstration to the parliament . the albigences to leuis the th and th of france . luther to the several dye●s under fredrick and charles the fifth ; calvin to francis the first , and many of our english martyrs , as the poor plowman's famous complaint , in foxes martyralogy , &c. . the present affairs of germany , plainly tell us that tolleration is the preservation of their states ; the contrary having formerly , almost quite wasted them . . the same in france : who can be so ignorant of their story , as not to know that the timely indulgence of henry the fourth , and the discreet tolleration of richlieu and mazarin saved that kingdom from being ruin'd both by the spaniards ; and one another . . holland , then which , what place is there so improved in wealth , trade and power , chiefly owes it to her indulgence in matters of faith and worship . . among the very mahumetans of turky , and persia , what variety of opinions , yet what unity and concord is there ? we mean in matters of a civil importance . . it was the opinion of that great master of the sentences , dominious a soto , that every man had a natural right to instruct others in things that are good : and he may teach the gospell truths also ; but cannot compell any to believe them , he may explain them , and to this ( says he ) every man has a right , as in his sent : dist . art. . pag. . . . strifes about religions said judicious and learned grotius , are the most pernicious and destructive ; where pravision is not made for dissenters : the contrary most happy ; as in muscovy ; he further says upon the occasion of campanella , that not a rigid but easy government suits best with the northren people ; he often pleads the relaxation of temporary laws to be resonable and necessary . as in the case of the curatij and heratij , and fabius vitulanus ; and others stincted to time and place , as the jewish laws &c. polit. maxims p. . , . . the famous raleigh tells us , that the way for magistrates to govern well and gain the esteem of their people is to govern by piety , justice , wisdom , and a gentle and moderate carriage towards them : and that disturbance attends those states where men are ruin'd or depress'd by parties . see his observations and maxims of state . if i mistake not , the french and duch protestants enjoy their separated wayes of worship in london , if not in other parts of these lands , without molestation ; we do the like in remote countries , but not in our own . . this must needs be the meaning of the learned doctor to his inquisitive student , in their juditious diologue about the fundamental laws of the kingdoms , when he says , that such laws as have not their foundation in nature , justice , and reason are void ipso facto . and whether persecution or restraint upon conscience be congruous with either , let the impartial judge . lib. . chap. . . doctor hammond himself , and the grand patron of the english church , was so far from urging the legallity of restriction in matters relating to conscience , that he writ , argu'd , and left upon his dying bed his sense to the contrary : as the author of his life might have been pleas'd to observe , but that interest stood in the way ; the doctor exhorting his party , not to seek to displace those then in the university ; or to persecute them for any matter of religious difference . . that a person of no less ability in the irish protestant church did the same , i mean d. jer. taylor , his whole discourse of liberty of prophesy , is a most pregnant demonstration . . it was the saying of a person once , too great to be nam'd now. that liberty of conscience is every mans natural right , and be who is depriv'd of it , is a slave in the midst of the greatest liberty : and since every man should do as he would be done to , such only don't deserve to have it , that won't give it . . lactantius reflects upon persecutors thus , if you will with blood , with evil , and with torments defend your worship , it shall not thereby be defended but polluted , lib. . cap. . . hillary against auxentius , saith , the christian church does not persecute , but is persecuted . . jerom , thus , heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit , proam lib. . . chrysostum saith , that it is not the manner of the children of god to persecute about their religion , but an evident token of antichrist — relig. uris . pag. . . stephen king of poland declared his mind in the point controverted thus , i am king of men , not of conscience ; a commander of bodies , not of souls . . the king of bohemia was of opinion , that mens consciences ought in no sort to be violated , urged , or constrained . . and lastly , let me add ( as what is , or should be now of more force ) the sense of king james , and charles the first , men fam'd for their great natural abilities , and acquir'd learning ; that no man ought to be punished for his religion nor disturb'd for his conscience ; in that it is the duty of every man to give what he would receive . it is a sure rule in divinity , said king james , that god never loves to plants his church by violence and bloodshed . and in his exposition on revel . . he saith , that persecution is the note of a false church . and in the last kings advice to the present king , he sayes , take heed of abetting any factions ; your partiall adhearing to any one side gains you not so great advantages in some mens hearts ( who are proue to be of their kings religion ) as it loseth you in others , who think themselves , and their profession , first dispis'd , then persecuted by you . again , beware of exasperating any factions by the crosness , and asperity of some mens passions , humours , or private opinions imployed by you , grounded only upon their difference in lesser matters , which are but the skirts and suburbs of religion . wherein a charitable connivence , and christian toleration often dissipates their strength , whom rougher opposition fortifies ; and puts the despised and oppressed party , into such combinations as may most enable them to get a full revenge on those they count their persecutors , who are commonly assisted by that vulgar commiseration , which attends all that are said suffer under the notion of religion . always keep up sollid piety and those fundamentall truths ( which mend both hearts and lives of men ) with impartial favour and justice . your prerogative is best shown and exercis'd in remitting , rather then exacting the rigour of laws ; there being nothing worse than legall tyranny . — now upon the whole , we ask , what can be more equal , what more reasonable then liberty of conscience ; so correspondent with the reverence due to god , and respect to the nature , practice , promotion , and rewards of the christian religion ; the sense of divine writ ; the great priviledge of nature , and noble principle of reason ; the justice , prudence , and felicity of government ; and lastly , to the judgment and authority of a whole cloud of famous witnesses , whose harmony in opinion , as much detects the unreasonableness , and incharity of persecutors , as their savage cruelties imply an highcontempt of so sollid determinations ; of which number i can not forbea● the mention of two , whose actions are so near of kin to one another , and both to inhumanity , as the same thing can be to it self . the first is a great lord of buckingham-shire ; but so hearty a persecutor of the poor quakers , that rather then they should peaceably enjoy the liberty of worshipping god , ( and to supply the county-defect of informers ) he has encourag'd a pair of such wretches , that it had bin a disgrace for the meanest farmer to coverse with ; one having been prisoner in alsbury for theft , & said to have bin burnt in the hand ; and the other of a complexion not much less scandalous and immortal . to give an undeniable testimony of their merit once for all , i shall briefly relate a most notorious piece of perjury . they suspecting a religious assembly to be at a certain place in the same county came , and finding one in reallity , repaired to one they call sr. tho clayton , and a justice , where they depos'd , that not only a meeting was at such an house , but one tho. zachery and his wife were there , who at the same time ( as at the tryal upon indictment for perjury at alsbury was proved by snfficient witnesses from london ) were then in that city , yet fined not only for being there , but for the speaker also , though none spoke that day . upon the prosecution of these men , as perjur'd men , and by the law dispriviledged of all imply , and never to be credited more in evidence , several delays were made , much time spent , and not a little pains bestow'd , all in hopes of an exemplary success ; which proved so , but the wrong way ; for the very last sessions , when the matter should have receiv'd an absolute decission , and the attendants have been dismist ( especially on the score of the witnesses , that came from london the second time , upon no other account ) a letter was reported to have bin writ from the aforesaid lord , in favour of these informers , to this purpose , that since sr. tho clayton was not present , the business could not well be determin●d , but if the court would undertake the ending of it , he beseecht them to be favourable to those honest men. if this be as true as said , 't is a most aggravated shame to nobility : what ! to protect them from the lash of law , who went about to destroy truth the life of it : 't is a dishonour to the government , a scandal to the county , and a manifest injury to an inoffensive and useful inhabitant . 'tother is as well known by his cruelty , as by his name , and he scarce deserves another ; however , he is understood by that of the reading knight , arrant , and alwayes in armour for the devil ; a man , whose life seems to be whole bonner reviev'd : hogestraut , the popish inquisiter , could not hate martin luther more , then he does a poor dissenter ; and wants but as much power , as he has will , to hang more then he has imprisoned . the laws made against papists , he inflicts upon the quakers ; and makes it crime enough for a prim●●ire to have an estate to lose . the single question is not , were you at such a meeting ? which the act intends : but will you swear , which it intends not ; and women escape him as little for this , as those of his own tribe do for some thing else : but what of all things most aggrivates the mans impiety , is the making a devillish snare of a christian duty ; since such as have come to visit the imprison'd , have been imprisoned themselves for their charity ; so that with him it seems a current maxime , that those must not come to see prisoners , and not be such themselves , who will not take the oath of allegiance to do it . to relate the whole tragedy would render him as bad , as the discourse big ; and the latter not less voluminous , then the former odious . but three things i shall observe . first , that he has clouded persons ( of those call'd quakers ) men and women , immodestly into goal , not suffering them to enjoy common conveniencies . and for his divertion , and the punishment of little children , he pours cold water down their necks . d his imprisonments are almost perpetual . first he premunires them , without any just cause of suspition ; thea impris●ns them ; and lastly , plunders them , and that by a law enacted against romanists ; which , if all be true , that is said , is more his concern then theirs , if without offence , it may be suppos'd he has religion at all . d some have been there about eight years , and should be eighteen more , were he as sure to live ( being more then . ) and enjoy his power , as doubtless he hopes to die before those good laws over-take him , that would make an example of such an oppressor ; in short , wives , widdows , poor and father less , are all fish for his net ; & whether over or under age he casts none away , but seems to make it his priviledge to correct law by out-doing it . when we have said all we can ( and we can never say too much , ( if enough ) he is still his own best character . such are the passion , follies , and prejudices , men devoted to a spirit of imposition , and persecution , are attended with , non enim poss●mus quae vidimus , et audivimus non loqui . in short , what religious , what wise , what prudent , what good-natured person would be a persecuter ? certainly it 's an office only fit for those who being wide of all reason , to evidence the verity of their own religion , fancy it to be true , from that strong propensity and greedy inclination they find in themselves to persecute the contrary ; a weakness of so ill a consequence to all civil societies , that the admission of it ever was , and ever will prove their utter ruin , as well as their great infelicity who pursue it . and though we could not more effectually express our revenge , then by leaving such persons to the scope of their own humors ; yet being taught to love and pray for our very persecutors , we heartily wish their better information , that ( if it be possible ) they may act more suitably to the good pleasure of the eternal just god , and beneficialy to these nations . to conclude , liberty of conscience ( as , thus stated & defended ) we ask as our undoubted right by the law of god , of nature , and of our own country : it has been often promised , we have long waited for it ; we have writ much , and suffered more in its defence , and have made many true complaints , but found little or no redress . however , we take the righteous holy god to record aga●nst all objections that are ignorantly , or designedly rais'd against us . that . st we hold no principle destructive of the english government . ● that we plead for no such dissenter ( if such an one there be . ) ● that we desire the temporal and eternal happiness of all persons ( in submission to the divine will of god ) heartily forgiving our cruel persecutors . thly , and lastly , we shall engage , by gods assistance , to lead peaceable , just , and industrious lives amongst men , to the good and example of all . but if after all we have said , this short discourse should not be credited , nor answer'd in any of its sober reasons , and requests ; but sufferings should be the present lot of our inheritance from this generation , be it known to them all , that meet we must , & meet , we cannot but encourage all to do ( whatever hardship we sustain in gods name , & authority , who is lord of hosts and king of kings ; at the revelation of whose righteous judgments and glorious tribunal , mortal men shall render an account of the deeds done in the body ; and whatever the apprehensions of such may be , concerning this discourse , 't was writ in love , and from a true sense of the present state of things : and time , and the event will vindicate it from untruth . in the mean while , 't is matter of great satisfaction to the author , that he has so plainly cleared his conscience , in pleading for the liberty of other mens , and publickly born his honest testimony for god , not out of season to his poor country . postscript . a few brief observations upon the late act , and the usual tearms of acts of this nature . that which we have to say , relates , either to the tearms of the act , or the application of them to us . as to the tearms of the act , they are these , seditious conventicles , seditious sectaries , and meetings under colour or pretence of religion , p. . seditious , from sedition , imports as much as turbulent , contentious , factious , which sowes strife , and debate , and hazards the civil peace of the government . . conventicle , is a diminutive private assembly , designning and contriving evil to particular persons , or the government in generall , see lamb. p. . in tertullians sense it is an assembly of immedest and unclean persons , at least it was so taken in those dayes , and objected against the christians as their practise , whom he defends . ter. apol. . sectaries , must be such as disjoyn or dis-member themselves from the body of truth , and confess to a strange and untrue opinion . if any subject of this realm being years of age or upwards , shall be present at any assembly , conventicle or pretence of religion &c. which can signifie no more then thus much , that true it is some may meet and assemble to worship god , and upon a religious account , that are dissenters , such we censure not , but those who under colour or pretence of any exercise of religion conspire &c. they are to be suspected and prosecuted . this being the true explanation of the tearms of the act ; we proceed to show how unreasonably they are applyed to us . . words are but so many intelligible marks , and characters set and employ'd , to inform us of each others conceptions , and therein of the nature of those things they stand for ; now because we take the act to mean what it speaks , and that the law concludes no man guilty upon conjectures , but from the detection of some fault ; we affirm our selves altogether unconcern'd in that word seditious , because 't was never our practise in words , or actions to disturb the government ; or suggest principles that might hatch conspiracies , or feed the vulgar with disaffection to their rulers ; but before the kings coming in , at his coming in , and ever since , notwithstanding our frequent suffering , we have made it our business to heal animosities , preach forgiveness and charity amongst men , and that they would by an hearty repentance turn to god , rather then hunt after revenge upon one another : therefore we assert we have not done one thing that may be prov'd seditious in the sense above mention'd . . that we are strangers to conventicles is most evident , for where the parts that render it such , are wanting , there can be no conventicle ; but that they are in our assemblies , appears . first , because our meetings are not small . . neither are they private or clandestine ; but in the view of all people . . nor are they riotous , liscentious , or otherwise immodest , or immorall ; but on purpose to diswade persons from such impieties ; so that we are clear in the interpretation of the law. h. . cap. . . and . h. . cap. . and in the sense of the famous father tertullian . . sectaries , is a word , that whosoever has but confidence enough to conceit himself in the right , by consequence wants none to suppose the contrary in the wrong , and so to call him a sectary ; but this is but a meer begging of the question ; for to say those are sectaries , do's not conclude them such , nor does the act speak so plainly of dissenters : but granting it did , yet they must be seditious ones , or else all will be in vain ; where we may observe , that purely to be a sectary , is not what the act strikes at , but to be a seditious one : for a man may differ in judgement about matters of faith , from the national religion , and yet correspond with the government in matters civil : so that act upon the whole , aims not at sectaries simply , but they must be such as are enemies to the civil constitution to be rendred seditious ones , from which we have sufficiently clear'd our selves . . that we meet under colour and pretence , and not really to worship god ; we deny , and none can prove . 't were high incharity to affirm positively , this , or that people meet only under a colour of religion ; yet unless the act had so expres'd it self , we conceive their authority lame and imperfect that persecute us by it . it will help but little to say , the king , lords and commons , by the following words , in other manner then acc●rding to the liturgy of the church of england , meant , that such meet under a pretence th●t did not conform to that worship ; since the precedent words say , under colour or pretence of any exercise of religion in other manner , &c. so that they are only struck ar , who are not sincere dissenters , but that are such , with design to carry on another end. obj but may some say , 't is granted , you have very evidently evaded the force of the act , so far as relates to these recited expressions ; but what if a bill be ready , for an explanatory and supplementory act to the former , wherein this scope for argument will not be found , because your meetings will be absolutely adjudged seditious , riotous , and unlawful . to which we answer , that as the granting of the first , which none reasonably can deny , is a manifest impeachment of such as have violently prosecuted people for being present at religious assemblies ( almost to their utter undoing ) so shall we as easily answer the second , which amounts to the force of an objection , and briefly thus . first , it is not more impossible for mankind to preserve , their society without speech , then it is absolutely requisit that the speech be regular and certain . for , if what we call a man , a lion , a whale to day , we should call a woman , a dog , a sprat to morrow ; there would be such uncertainty and confusion , as it would be altogether impossible to preserve speech or language intelligible . secondly , it is not in the power of all the men in the world to reconcile an absolute contradiction , to convert the nature of light into that of darkness , nor to enact a thing to be that which it is not ; but that those endeavour to do , who think of making our religious meetings routs and riots ; for first they offer violence to our common propriety of language , it being the first time that ever a religious and peaceable assembly would be enacted a rout or riot : nature , reason , the law of the land , and common practice , and observation , give a clear contrary definition of a rout and riot . secondly , they endeavour to reconcile contradictions ; for they would have a thing that which by nature it cannot be ; for that which is peaceable cannot be riotous , and what is religious can never be seditious . for any to say our meetings are not r●ligious , is not only a poor evasion , but great incharity ; for that is properly a religious assembly where persons are co●gregated with a real purpose of worshipping god , by prayer , or otherwise , let the persons met be esteem'd doctrinally orthodox , or not . can any be so ignorant , or so malitiou● , as to believe we do not assemble to worship god , to the best of our understanding ? if they think otherwise , they must , and do assume unto themselves a power beyond the arrogancy of the pope himself , that never yet adventur'd to tell man his thoughts , nor the purposes and intents of his heart , which he , or they must do , that definitively judge our assemblies , void of sword or staff , drum or musket , tumult or violence , and circumstantiated with all the tokens of christian devotion , a rout or a riot . and truly , if protestants deny the legallity of those acts or edicts , which were contriv'd and execu●ed in order to their suppression , by the respective kings and parliaments that own'd the romish faith and authority , where they either did or do live , let them not think it strange , if we on the same tearms ( namely , scruple of conscience ) refuse compliance with their laws of restraint . and as the first reformers were no whit daunted at the black characters the romanists fastened on them , neither thought their assemblies in away of profest seperation , the more unlawful , for their representing them such ; no more are we surpriz'd or scar'd at the ugly phr●ses , daily cast upon us by a sort of men , that either do not know us , or would not that others should : for we are not so easily to be brav'd , menac'd , or persecuted out of our sense , reason , and priviledge . they say , losers have leave to speak , at least , we take it ; none being greater losers , then such as for dissenting from national institutions in point of faith or worship , are depriv'd of their common rights and fr●edoms , and hindred as much as may be , from reverencing the god that made them , in that way which to them seems most acceptable to him . to conclude , we say , and by it let our intentions in our whole discourse be measur'd , that we have not defin'd any dissenters , whose quarrell or dissent is rather civill and politticall , then religious and concientious ; for both we really think such unworthy of protection from the english ●overnment , who seek the ruin of it ; and that such as are contributries to the pres●rvation of it , ( though dissen●ers in point faith or worship ) are unquestionably intituled to a protection from it . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a the primative state of things observed by a poet , more then . year old ; by which the clergy may read their own apostacy and character . b time and prosperity corrupted them , & then they grew states-men . c 't was now they began to persecute ; they hated any that were more devout then themselves : devotion was counted disaffection ; religious assemblies , conventicles ; primitive spirited christians , upstart hereticks ; thus the tragedy began , cain slaying abel about religion . d he truly maketh their avarice the cause of their degeneration ; for 't is the root of all evil. a reply to an answer lately published to a book long since written by w.p. entituled a brief examination and state of liberty spiritual &c. by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a reply to an answer lately published to a book long since written by w.p. entituled a brief examination and state of liberty spiritual &c. by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . penn, william, - . brief examination and state of liberty spiritual. [ ], p. printed and sold by t.sowle, [london] : . reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hogg, john, th cent. society of friends -- england -- controversial literature. freedom of religion -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a reply to an answer lately published to a book long since written by w. p. entituled , a brief examination and state of liberty spiritual , &c. by thomas ellwood . tim. . . evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse , deceiving , and being deceived . rom. . . now i beseech you , brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . printed , and sold by t. sowle , at the crooked-billet in holloway-lane , in shoreditch , . the preface . in the year . there was a small treatise published by a friend , under the title of a brief examination of liberty spiritual , &c. the occasion of writing that treatise was , a sense the author thereof had , and an observation he had made , how much the nature of that true spiritual liberty was misunderstood by some , and the name thereof abused by others in the profession of the truth ; who , under pretence of being left to that liberty in themselves , and to their own freedom therein , both took liberty to do such things as were inconsistent with that true liberty , and with the principle of truth which they professed ; and , despising those useful , good and necessary helps and means which the lord hath provided , and furnished his church or people with , for the preventing and keeping out such disorders , evils and scandals , as the unruly nature of man , through such a mistake of true liberty , might and would bring in , did reject the counsel ; admonition or reproof of their brethren , with a what hast thou to do with me ? leave me to my own freedom . to reclaim ( if it might be ) those that were thus deceived , and prevent others from being so , the author being pressed in spirit for zion's sake , and for the peace of jerusalem , and having a deep sense ( as himself expresses ) of the working of the enemy of zion's peace to rend and divide the heritage of god , did write the fore-mentioned treatise for the establishment of the faithful , information of the simple-hearted , and reproof of the arrogant and high-minded ; as his title page sets forth . as that treatise had its service and acceptance with the faithful and simple-hearted : so it has passed hitherto ( for between nine and ten years ) free from the cavils ( at least publick ) of the arrogant and high-minded , till now that of late some of them , who are of a restless spirit ( and to whom it is uneasie to be , or to let others be quiet ) have singled out that book for a fresh butt to shoot at , make that a new occasion to renew contention , and revive the old controversie . in order to this they have very lately published a book , in answer ( as is pretended ) to several material passages in that book . that answer hath in the title page the letters j. h. as standing for the author's name . but since i have no certain knowledge who is meant by those two letters , and i find the general stile of the answer , both in the preface and book it self , to run in the first person plural [ we ] which , by the advertisement at the end of the preface , i am told may be understood in respect of those of the same mind with the author of that book , i chose in my reply , to entitle the adverse party to it , without regard to any particular person . they labour much , throughout their book , to fasten an ugly imputation or charge upon the author of that treatise they pretend to answer , of endeavouring to bring in a blind obedience , an implicit faith , conformity before and without conviction , a dependence on men instead of a dependence on god , endeavouring to obtrude or set up opinion , or the likeness of truth , instead of truth , &c. how far from truth this charge is , the following reply is intended to manifest . how far from true christianity a man must be that could be guilty of all this , is manifest of it self . the adversaries therefore , that they might not hereby too much disgust such of their favourers , as have not wholly cast off all good thoughts of him they thus traduce , make as if they would in charity excuse the author from doing those things knowingly ; pretending to believe him both a better man , and more a christian. but how unlike christians they have dealt with him , in answering his book , the following reply will in part discover . here in their preface , for the reason of his doing the things they slanderously tax him with , they assign his being deceived through the mysterious working of the enemy ; which that it may not seem strange , they wish their reader to consider how many have been deceived thereby , both great and small , and some at times hurried into things grosly evil , as killing their fellow-creatures , and yet at the same time think they did god service . but as no good christian ever did so : so , by the comparison they have made , they sufficiently shew what a sort of christian they in reality esteem him to be . their preface is so much , both for matter and manner , of the same piece with their book , that much of what is in the preface , will be taken notice of in the reply to the book ; to which therefore , for avoiding needless repetitions , i refer . yet because they have loosely scattered through their preface many unsound expressions , which perhaps may not so fitly be handled in the reply , i will briefly touch a few of them here ; as their calling the likeness of truth a third thing , besides what is evil and good , and saying that it stands betwixt evil and good ( though they bring it in with as [ as we may say ] will not hold weight , but unsound . for that which is only like truth , but is not truth , doth not stand betwixt evil and good , but ( whatever it seems to be ) is really and directly evil , and stands in and with the evil. so their making the covering of the soul , where the likeness of truth is received for truth , &c. to be as the linnen and wollen-garment , forbid to be worm under the law , is an unfit and unsound comparison : for neither the linnen nor the wollen was evil , though ( as a type of sincerity and singleness of heart ) they were then forbidden to be worn in one garment together ; but either the linnen might lawfully be worn by it self , or the wollen by it self . but the likeness of truth , that which is only like truth , but is not truth , may neither be received together with any thing that is truth , nor alone by it self without truth . so when they speak of outward rules , they say , every adding of outward rules , shews a want of christ's government by his holy spirit ; they mistake . if it shews a want of any thing , it shews a want of subjection to his government by his holy spirit , not a want of that government . neither is christ's government by his holy spirit incompatible with outward rules : but whatever outward rules christ by his spirit gives , are consistent with , and agreeable to his government by his spirit . so again , when they say , it is certain that no outward rule , as it concerns a holy conversation or the worship of god , is of any service , but until he come : they err . there are many outward rules in the scriptures of truth , that were given by the spirit of god , which have been , and are of service to many , after christ hath been witnessed come . again , when they say , every latter appearance of god is as death to the former ; the expression is unsavoury , and not sound . for the appearance of god or christ do not kill one another , but agree one with another , and co-operate to the work he intends thereby . but when to this they add , and this is our case , as well as any that did go before us , &c. they err egregiously : for the appearance of god in us , did not bring death to the former appearance of god in others ( though to the false appearances and likenesses thereof it did ) neither will any further appearance of god hereafter , bring death , or be death , or be as death to this appearance of god , whereby god hath made known himself in and to his people in this age. again , they say , when the appearance or conversation must be measured by certain rules , it follows what is terms of communion , or is accepted with god , may not be accepted with men this is a loose expression , and tends to let up looseness . are not sobriety , temperance , chastity , modesty , honesty , &c. certain rules whereby conversation ought to be measured ? if there must be no certain rules for measuring conversation , how shall the most unruly conversation be blamed , reproved , judged , condemned , and either reformed or rejected ? by these few instances it may appear , how much they are declined from truth . the god of truth knows , i have no other end in this reply than to defend truth , and the children of it , against the slanderous suggestions , false charges , and wicked insinuations of the adversaries ; to lay open their deceitful dealing ; and to remove ( as the lord shall enable me ) the stumbling-blocks which they have laid in the way of the week , whereby they have caused some to fall into misapprehensions and hard thoughts of friends , without cause . and i beseech the god of mercy to open the vnderstandings and clear the sight of all those , whose simplicity has been betrayed by the others subtilty , that they may see and escape the enemies snares , and return to the true fold , from which they have been led astray . a reply to an answer , lately published to a book long since written , entituled , a brief examination and state of liberty spiritual , &c. the author of that book , called , a brief examination , &c. hath therein truly and soundly defined spiritual liberty ; declaring it to be two-fold , true & false , according to the true and false spirit , which respectively leads into each . the true spiritual liberty he defines to be deliverance from sin by the perfect law in the heart , the perfect law of liberty , iames . otherwise called , the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus , that makes free from the law of sin and death ; elsewhere stiled the law of truth writ in the heart , which makes free indeed ▪ as saith christ , if the truth make you free , than are you free indeed . so that the liberty of god's people stands in the truth , and their communion in it , and in the perfect spiritual law of christ jesus , which delivers and preserves them from every evil thing that doth or would embondage . in this blessed liberty it is not the will or wisdom of man , neither the vain affections and lusts that rule , or give law to the soul ; for the minds of all such as are made free by the truth , are by the truth conducted in doing and suffering through their earthly pilgrimage . the false liberty he defines to be a departing from this blessed spirit of truth , and a rebelling against this perfect law of liberty in the heart , and being at liberty to do our own wills ; upon which cometh reproof and judgment . this , being the basis of the work , i thought fit to transcribe at large , that the reader may plainly see and understand what that liberty is , both true and false , which was the subject of that book , and is now of this controversie . against this definition of spiritual liberty , i do not find the answerers of that book ( for the answer runs in the plural number ) take any exception . for , in the entrance of their answer , they say , as to the definition of liberty spiritually explained , page the first , we agree upon the matter . but , passing by some questions and answers in that book , tending to shew , in some general instances , wherein and how far the members of the church of christ may be left to their freedom ; they take-hold of a question and answer in the second and third pages , which are thus exprest . quest. but doth not freedom extend further than this ; for since god hath given me a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and that i have the gift of god in my self , should i not be left to act according as i am free and perswaded in my own mind , in the things that relate to god , lest looking upon my self as obliged by what is revealed unto another , though it be not revealed unto me , i should be led out of my own measure , and act upon another's motion , and so offer a blind sacrifice to god ? answ. this is true in a sense , that is , if thou art such a one that canst do nothing against the truth , but for the truth , then mayst thou safely be left to thy freedom in the things of god , and the reason is plain ; because thy freedom stands in the perfect law of liberty , in the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus , and in the truth , which is christ jesus , which makes thee free indeed , that is , perfectly free from all that is bad , and perfectly free to all that is holy , just , lovely , honest , comely and of good report ; but if thou pleadest thy freedom against such things , yea , obstructest and slightest such good , wholsome and requisit things , thy freedom is naught , dark , perverse , out of the truth , and against the perfect law of love and liberty . the question , as stated above , the adversaries find no fault with , but approve and applaud , often calling it a weighty question . but for all that , they either mistake , or wilfully pervert it . for whereas the plain and express terms of the question are these , [ since god hath given me a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and that i have the gift of god in my self , should i not be left , &c. ] they , in their sophistical glosses upon it , vary the terms , and instead of [ god 's having given , &c. ] they render it [ where the gift of god is received to profit withal : ] and instead of [ i have the gift of god in my self ] they put [ such as do adhere to it ] as if there were no difference ( or they knew , or regarded none ) betwen god's having given a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and man's having received this gift of god to profit withal : betwixt man's having the gift of god in himself , and his adhering ( that is , joyning and cleaving close ) unto this heavenly gift . whereas the spiritually-minded know , not only that the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , according to cor. . . ( though too many receive it not , but reject and rebel against it ▪ ) but that , even of those that have professed to have received it , all have not received it to that good end & benefit for which it was given , namely , to profit thereby . neither have all who have had the gift of god in themselves , adhered thereto : but many have wholly kickt against it ; and some who have pretended to adhere to it , have , instead thereof , adhered to its and their own enemy , not to their profit , but to their loss and ruin , and to the trouble and disquiet of the church , of which they held themselves to be members . now that the adversaries have thus wrested the question , shall appear in their own words ; for after they have ( without much variation ) recited the question and answer , they in their own answer thereto , pag. . say , that this question above is weighty , is clear , for the whole controversie seems included in it ; for where the gift of god is received to profit withal , they have liberty and freedom to chuse or refuse things , according as they are perswaded , or they have not ; and all this ( say they ) is included in the question . here , they have put in the word [ received ] thereby turning the ground of the question from god's having given , to man's having received the gift of god to profit withal . again , say they , the question is , whether freedom and liberty do not extend further than outward things , that is , whether it doth not reach to the things of god , where the gift of gods is received according to the question ; whenas the word [ received ] is not in the question . again , taking upon them in a conceited humour , to turn the question into a position or assertion , they say , it will follow thus , or to this effect , that true liberty and freedom reacheth to the things of god , to all that have received the gift of god to profit withal ; for such , as they do adhere to it , have liberty and freedom in the fear of god to chuse , &c. now having thus wrested the question , by varying the terms in which the author had laid it down , their next work is to cavil at his answer ; which , though it answered his question , does not answer theirs , at least not to their minds . and first i take notice , as if they had a mind to play the criticks , and shew some little skill in pedantry , they fall a word-pecking , and carp at his manner of expressing himself . it seems as if they thought him deficient in grammer , and that he understood not congruity of speech . the beginning of his answer was , this is true in a sense . for this they take him up . it seems rather ( say they , pag. . ) to take the question to be an assertion , than a question in our iudgment ; for ( say they ) it follows thus , that this question is true in a sense , which to us is neither clear nor very proper , a question in some sort being a matter undetermined till affirmed or denyed . surely , one would think , they might have spared their censure on another , unless they had learn'd to speak with more clearness and better sense themselves . how would they be understood , that a question in some sort is a matter undetermined till affirmed and denyed ? is it undetermined in some sort , and determined in some other sort , before it be either affirmed or denyed ? or is a question , with them , a matter determined so soon as it is affirmed or denyed ? they have found out , sure , an easie way of determining questions , if either affirming or denying will determin the matter . but to make this pretended solaecisme upon the author of the book they pretend to answer , they abuse his words : for they say , it follows thus ( meaning , in his book ) that this question is true in a sense . but without question , they put in the word question in that place : for it doth not follow so in his book . his book doth not say , this question is true in a sense : but , this is true in a sense . this ; the matter , substance , subject of the question : not the question ( which is but a form of speech ) but the thing questioned ; which if they know not how to distinguish , they are the less fit to take upon them to correct others , him especially . next , i observe they except against the answer as insufficient . they say , pag. . the answer , if worthy of that name , is slight and evasive , no way deserving to be reputed or accepted as a true answer to this weighty question . again , we find no direct answer , neither directly affirming or denying the question . again , we see the question is rather avoided than answered . all this in one page . and with such abusive slights their book abounds . but in this they do but beat the air with empty noise and clamour , roving in uncertainties and self-inconsistencies . one while they say , the answer is no way deserving to be reputed a true answer , as in pag. . another while they confess , it is true in the sense he grants , pag. . now 't is not a full answer , pag. . anon , 't is nothing to the purpose , p. . this befalls them , because they go from the plain and simple truth , from the true light , to grope in the dark , with their own guessings , conjectures , conceivings and suppositions , built upon this [ if ] and to'ther [ if ; ] from which they as confidently force conclusions , as if their suppositions were the plainest positions ; their conjectures , the clearest demonstrations . of this , instances may be seen in their . and . pages , where attempting to find out by their [ if 's ] whether the author's answer be full or nay to the question , they say , either this question , if affirmed , is true in a larger sense , then he has granted , or it 's but true in this sense . if true in a larger sense , it follows ( say they , but not without another [ if ] though ) if his aim and design , as he says , was to assert the truth , he has missed his mark . this were to suppose it impossible to hit the mark , if a question be true in a larger sense than it is answered . which supposition no man of sense , i suppose , will allow of . so again , a little lower , if ( say they ) i must not act as i am perswaded , then i must act as others are perswaded . what necessity is there for that ? where lies the [ must ] in this case ? is there no medium between my not acting as i am perswaded , and acting as others are perswaded ? what if , in such a case , i should for a while forbear acting , not act at all , but humbly wait upon god , to receive from him the like perswasion that my brethren have , that so i also may act with them upon my own perswasion ? were there any hurt in this ? nay , were not this a good sign of a right christian mind and spirit ? again , they say , pag. . either he believes his answer is full to the question , or he believes and knows it is not : if he believes and knows it is not full , then must he not only not have asserted the truth as above , but also be conscious wherefore he did it not ; and we conceive ( there 's another of their conceptions ? ) that must either be because he wanted ability , or because he wanted truth in his way . here are a pair of inconclusive conclusions together , pieced out with a shallow conceit of their own ; which i should not have thought worth taking notice of , but to shew the well-meaning reader , what false ways of reasoning they work by , to beguile the simple . amongst whom though such sort of reasoning may pass for currant , and perhaps be thought of some force by such as , through yeilding to the enemies suggestions against the truth , are become vailed and clouded in their understandings : yet to the opened eye , the single eye , the inlightned mind , it appears , as indeed it is , empty , shallow , trivial , weak and false . now as to the answer it self , after all their vilifying of it , it will appear to the honest-minded to be pertinent , proper and full enough to the question to which it was given . the adversaries , i perceive , expected an answer to consist only in a yea , or nay : and they account the answer not direct , because ( as they think ) it does not directly affirm or deny . but it is their want of skill ( if without offence they may be told so ) that makes them think an answer not direct , unless it be exprest by yea or nay . as the answer relates to the question , so the question related to ( as being grounded on ) the definition of spiritual liberty , which the author had given before . that therefore the answer they except so much against may appear to be both proper , full and direct enough to the question , i desire both the question it self , and the definition of that liberty propounded in it , ( and on which it is grounded ) may be seriously and impartially weighed together . the true spiritual liberty , on which the question was grounded , was defined to be deliverance from sin by the perfect law in the heart , the perfect law of liberty , &c. ( as is before set down at large . ) and this definition the adversaries have subscribed to . the question that follows , and is grounded upon , this definition of spiritual liberty or freedom , is this ; since god hath given me a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and that i have the gift of god in my self , should i not be left to act according as i am free and perswaded in my own mind , in the things that relate to god , &c. now consider ; since it is certain , that this gift of god is universal , that the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal : and yet no less certain , that all who have this gift in themselves , are not subject to it ; that all to whom the manifestation of the spirit is given to profit withal , have not received the gift ; nay , that of them who do profess to have received it , all have not so received it , as to profit therewithal , to be redeemed thereby into the true spiritual liberty : these things , i say , considered , such a positive , absolute , undistinguishing answer , as the adversaries expected and call for , of a simple granting or denying the question , by a positive yea or nay , without distinction or explanation , could not in truth have been given . for that had been to say , that none ought to be left to their freedom , no , not they , who by receiving the divine gift in themselves , subjecting to it , and growing up in it , are truly thereby brought to the true freedom indeed , the freedom that stands in truth , the true spiritual liberty : or that all ought to be left to their freedom in the things relating to go●● even they who through their alienation from god , know nothing of either this true libety , or the gift that leads to it ; or they that , professing to know it , and to have received it , live not in subjection to it , and so are not brought to the true spiritual liberty by it ; but have a freedom out of the truth , a freedom to do such things as the truth condemns . the author therefore , rightly distinguishing these different states , answered aptly to the terms of his question ; granting the question in a right sense , but not in a wrong sense . for the question not opening the particular state of the party demanding this freedom , but being grounded only upon the gift or manifestation given ( which is applicable not only to all in the profession of truth , how disorderly and scandalous so ever , but even to all mankind ) and not mentioning the parties having received the gift in the love of it , closed with it to an improvement of it to a profiting therewith , and dwelt in a subjection thereunto ( which alone brings into the true spiritual liberty ) therefore the author , that he might divide his answer aright , said , if thou art such an one that canst do nothing against the truth , but for the truth ( as much as to say , if thou art indeed come by thy subjection to the heavenly gift given thee , into the true spiritual liberty , and thy freedom stand in that ) then mayst thou safely be left to thy freedom in the things of god , and the reason ( said he ) is plain : because thy freedom ( the freedom thou wouldst be left to ) stands in the perfect law of liberty , &c. as much as to say , thy freedom , if this be thy state , is the true spiritual liberty before defined ; and therefore thou mayst safely be left to that , both with respect to thy self , and to the church of christ , which thou art a member of , since that freedom will not lead thee to do any thing against the truth , but all for the truth . ( and herein , it is evident , the author had direct relation to that definition of true spiritual liberty which he had given before , and which the adversary now agree to ) but on the other hand , if thou who demandest to be left to thy freedom in the things of god , art not come to this true spiritual liberty ; but notwithstanding god hath given thee a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and that thou professest in words to have received this gift , yet thou hast not so closed with , and subjected to this divine gift , as to have profited therewithal , and so art not come into this true spiritual liberty ; but by rebelling against the perfect law of liberty in thy heart , thou art gotten into a false liberty , a false freedom , a freedom to do such things as are out of truth ; then it is not safe , either for thy self , or for the church of christ ( which thou seemest to joyn with ) for thee to be left to this freedom of thine , since that will lead thee to act not for the truth , but against the truth , to bring dishonour to the truth , disturbance to the church , and destruction to thy self . the author therefore , having granted that such as are come to the true spiritual liberty in and by the truth , should be left to their freedom in that ; added , but if thou pleadest thy freedom against such things as are holy , iust , lovely , honest , comely , and of good report , yea , obstructest and slightest such good , wholsome and requisit things , thy freedom is naught , dark , perverse , out of the truth , and against the perfect law of love and liberty . and thus , to the spiritually-minded , who consider the definition above given of spiritual liberty , & take the question , as it was stated by the author himself , i make no doubt but it will appear , that the answer given by him thereto , was plain , proper , direct and full enough . but the adversaries shew what they would be at : for they say , p. . the question affirmed as above , is certainly not only true in a part , or in a sense , as he is pleased to say , but it is true in every part , true in the whole and every sense that a position can be true in ; nay , it is so far true , that if it can be wrong at all , 't is only in a sense , and that is only when misapplied . reply . these few lines yield much matter to be considered ; st . when they say the question affirmed as above , they must mean the question , as it lies in the author 's own terms and book , or as they have new modelled it , formed , transformed and deformed it , perverted and wrested it to their own sense in their book . if they mean the latter , they prevaricate foully . if they intend the former , viz. that the question , as stated and laid down ( or , to answer their conceit affirmed ) in the author 's own terms , is true ( that is , is to be granted , or held in the affirmative ) in every part , in the whole , and in every sense that a position can be true in : then , since the question assigns no other qualification to the party demanding to be left to act according to his freedom , but that which is common to the most scandalous professor , to the vilest apostate , yea , to all mankind , namely , that god hath given him a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , and that he hath the gift of god in himself ( which many that have it , rebel against , and are so far from profiting with it , that they do despight unto it , it will follow , according to the adversaries sense , that all such as god hath given a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , all such as have the gift of god in themselves , how disobedien● soever they are to it , how heady and high-minded soever , how unruly and turbulent soever , how factious and quarrelsom soever in the church , must notwithstanding be left to act as they are free ( though they are free to act what is out of truth ) and the church be obliged to own and receive them as brethren and fellow-members in their so acting . but though this be the consequence of the adversaries arguing , yet it is directly contrary to the apostle's counsel , rom. . . & tim. . . secondly , when they say , the question is true in every part , true in the whole , and every sense that a position can be true in ; and then add , it is so far true , that if it can be wrong at all , 't is only in a sense ; they seem to me to run at once into an uncertainty and a contradiction . a contradiction , in admitting it capable of being wrong in any sense , after they have so positively affirmed it to be true in every sense . an uncertainty , in saying , if it can be wrong at all ; which shews they haesitate , they doubt , they are not well assured , they are but in the uncertainty : and themselves say in the same page , but a few lines lower , an vncertainty admitted for the truth in this case , stands in the nature of a lye. to this they add another paradox ; for having said , if the question be wrong at all , 't is only in a sense , and that is only when misapplied ; they add , but the misapplication of this weighty question when affirmed , doth neither destroy it in its self , nor in the least take away the true use . this , in a parenthesis , they bid us observe . and truly they must be observant readers indeed , that can observe any congruity of sense or reason in this passage ; or understand how that can be misapplied to any one , which ( according to their sense ) is applicable to every one . but it is very probable , that what they here say of this weighty question , as they so often call it , is intended rather of the question , or position they have made ( for they have turn'd it from one to to'ther ) than of the question propounded by that author : for they here immediately subjoyn their creed , as if they deduced it from the question ; but in such terms as are only in their own question , not in his . thus they word it . therefore we believe , where the gift of god is received to profit withal , and truly adhered to , there must be a liberty to chuse and refuse things , according as such are perswaded , even from the babe in christ , to the strong man , and so to all states : ( in christ i suppose they mean. ) this shews how little they understand the question , and the ground of it . for the babe in christ , he that is truly in christ , though but in a babish state , abiding in him , can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth ; though he may not be able to do so much for the truth , as a strong man , or father in christ can do . he that hath so received the gift of god , as to profit therewithal , and doth truly adhere thereunto , be his measure of growth or stature therein what it will , yet , abiding and growing up therein , that will lead him to chuse , and with freedom to embrace , whatsoever is holy , just , lovely , honest , comely , and of good report . so that such as one in that capacity , wherein ( according to the author's answer to the question , concerning being left to act as he is free , &c. ) he may safely be left to his freedom in the things of god. thus , after all their clamour against the answer to the question , as no way deserving to be reputed a true answer , not worthy of that name , of no use or service with respect to the controversie , worth nothing , nothing to the purpose &c. because not large enough , not comprehensive enough ( as they think ) to take in all ; they , with all their stretching and wresting , have brought it but to the same pass , to them only that are in christ. and they tell us , pag. . that man must be made a new creature , and must travel through the whole mystery of iniquity , before ▪ he can come into christ ; and that , though the enemy , that fallen angel , can go with man into every remove , while man is fitting and preparing , yet into christ he cannot come . so that , with them , a man being come to be in christ , is out of the enemies reach . thus , ( though , exercising themselves in things too high for them , they utter what they understand not , ) yet they bring the matter to the same issue and result , that the author 's own answer left it in . for they that are thus come through the travel , beyond the fitting and preparing , beyond the whole mystery of iniquity , into christ , and out of the enemy's reach , being entred where he cannot come : these are sure in as high an estate as those can be , who the author said may safely be left to their freedom in the things of god. the difference then lies not between such as are in different growths in christ ; but between those that are really in him , and those that are not in him , though they may profess to believe in him . the danger is not of the babe , muchless of the strong man , in christ : but of the strong man out of christ ; him that is strong in his own will , in his own conceit , being heady , high-minded , contentious , quarrelsom , impatient ; who , if he cannot in all things be humoured , and have his own way , flies out into open opposition , to work division and separation , as these adversaries have done . for however ; they now palliate , and in words smooth over the liberty and freedom they pretend to , as if it were only a liberty to chuse or refuse things according as they are perswaded : yet their practice ( which in this case is the best discoverer of intentions ) hath sufficiently manifested what freedom , what liberty they seek ; a liberty to oppose friends in such things as friends are satisfied in ; a liberty to reproach , revile , despise , scoff and jeer at those things that are conscientiously received and practised by friends , and which themselves neither have shewed , nor can shew any evil to be in , but only pretend they are not convinced of the needfulness or usefulness of them ; a liberty to revile and vilifie friends in print , under the names of apostates , innovators , introducers of popery , and but one step from it , idolaters , setters up of images , idol-prophets , a treacherous company , possest with the spirit of belial , mercinary judges , self-seeking slavish drudges , led by satan , &c. a liberty to rend off , divide and separate from friends , and set up separate-meetings , in divers parts and places , out of the unity of friends , and in direct opposition to them ; and yet after all this , and in the midst of all this , and maintaining all this , to come when and where they please , to friends meetings , as pretending to joyn with friends in worship , and impose upon friends their preaching and praying , and expect that they ( who have given the highest demonstrations of their being our greatest enemies , and persist therein ) should notwithstanding be owned and received as friends , as brethren , as preachers , as ministers of christ amongst us . this is the liberty they have taken , this the freedom they plead and press for . and this is such a piece of hypocrisie , and gross deceit as , i verily believe , cannot be paralleled among all the pretenders to christian religion . this to be sure is a mystery of iniquity ; and therefore , seeing they pretend not to extend the liberty , of chusing and refusing things , according as they are perswaded , to any but such as are in christ , p. . and that they must travel through the whole mystery of iniquity , before they can come into christ , p. . they must needs travel out of these things before mentioned , before they can pretend to be within the compass of their own plea. in their th page , they say , forasmuch as he neither hath , nor we believe , can give us any certain undoubted rule , how to know who these are that are so to be left , all that he hath said by way of affirming this great question , is worth nothing ; for as it is altogether unintelligible , 't is every way impracticable . again , if any certain rule can be given to know who may be left to their liberty as above , let us have it ( say they ) and by the contrary rule we shall know who may not be so left . reply ; by this they shew themselves to be out of the truth , in the uncertainty . if they were in the truth , they would not be to seek of a certain rule in this case , the spirit of truth giving certainty and assurance to them that are guided by it , though not to them that resist it . now though they have not explain'd what they mean by who these are , or how they expect a description of them , whether by qualifications , or by personal marks ; yet each way they are wrong . for if they would have a rule to know them by qualifications , they themselves ( with sufficient contradiction to themselves , while they make as if they believed no such rule can be given ) have adventured to give it , assigning them to be such as are in christ , even from the babe in christ to the strong man , and so to all states ( but still in christ. ) now that this cannot take in ( even in their own sense ) the whole promiscuous number of those that go to friends meetings , that hear truth preached , or that by tongue , or outward profession only , confess to the truth of the principle , their own description or explanation of what it is to be in christ , pag. . will manifest : for there they tell us , that man must be made a new creature before he can come into christ , he must travel through the whole mystery of iniquity ; that the rest is only by being in christ , the travel is while he appears in us to fit us for himself , for 't is ( say they ) the new creature that only finds room in him . ( so then the travel must be over before they come to be in christ ) for , say they , the enemy , that fallen angel , can go with man into every remove , whilst man is fitting and preparing , but into christ he cannot come . these are some of the qualifications by which they describe who should be left to their freedom , &c. but if this may pass for a rule with them , why may not that as well , which the author of that book they pretend to answer , laid down therein , viz. that they may safely be left to their freedom in the things of god , who are such as can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth ; such whose freedom stands in the perfect law of liberty ? if they ask , but by what certain or undoubted rule shall we know who are such ? i reply ; when they have told me , by what certain or undoubted rule they know who are in christ , according to the explanation they have given of being in christ , that is , who they are that are certainly and undoubtedly made new creatures ; who they are that have certainly and undoubtedly travelled through the whole mystery of iniquity ; who they are that have certainly and undoubtedly gone beyond , where the enemy can go , into christ where he cannat come ; i will then tell them , who they are whose freedom stands in the perfect law of liberty , &c. they add , but if no such rule ( that is , no certain or undoubted rule ) can be given , it must follow , all must be left free , or none must be left . reply ; they are very quick at their consequences . but it concerns them to see that their consequence contains no more than their premises . when they say , all must be left free ; what all do they mean ? all that are called quakers ? or only all that are in christ , from the babe in christ upward ? if they say only all that are in christ , ( according to the description they have given of being in christ ) what more or other is that , than the author they carp at had said before ? if they mean all that are called quakers , that 's more ( by their leave ) than is in their premises . for there they say , therefore we believe , where the gift of god is received to profit withal , and truly adhered to , there must be a liberty to chuse and refuse things according as such are perswaded , even from the babe in christ , to the strong man , &c. and sure they will hardly say , that all that are called quakers have so received the gift , have so adhered to it , have so profited with it , as to be really in christ ( and that according to their forecited description of being in christ ) though but in a babish state or degree . they were therefore too hasty in their conclusion that all must be left free , or none . they should have remembred , that the definition of true spiritual liberty ( to which they say they agree ) was , deliverance from sin by the perfect law of liberty in the heart , a being made free indeed by christ the truth . all have not this freedom . they cannot be left to it , who neither have it , nor know it . must therefore none be left to it , although they know it , and have it ? they should have considered , that spiritual liberty was declared to be two-fold ; true , and false : so that there is a false liberty , a false freedom , as well as a true ; a liberty to do our own wills , upon which comes reproof and judgment . examinat . of lib. spir. p. . would they have all , nay , would they have any left to this freedom , to this liberty , to do their own wills , in opposition to god's will ? that would bring reproof and judgment indeed . now because it is a pleasing and desirable thing to man's nature to be left to its freedom , to be at liberty to do , or not do , what it pleases , and how it pleases , in religious , as well as in civil matters ; whereupon it may sound harsh in the ears of some , that any should not be absolutely and unquestionably left to their own freedom , to do what they think fit , without being accountable to others : therefore that i may remove all grounds of offence and stumbling on this occasion , out of the way of such as are honest-minded , i am willing here , as briefly as with plainness i can , to open the matter further . first therefore , a little to explain the terms , and shew what is meant by those words [ not to be left to ones liberty to act as one is free , &c. ] i take the meaning thereof to be , that no person , who doth profess to be a member of a true christian society , ought , or hath right to plead any exemption , upon the account of his liberty or freedom , from being called to an account by that society which he professes to be a member of , in case such person shall do any thing repugnant to the principles of that society , or tending to the defamation or hurt thereof . but that every such society hath power to call any such professed member to an account , in order to inform him , and open his understanding , if he be weak and dark ; to reprove , rebuke , and exhort him to repentance , if he prove heady , wilful , contentious and unruly ; and if he obstinatly persist therein , to refuse any further fellowship with him , until he manifest true repentance . this is the power , the utmost power , that the church of christ claims , namely to inform , instruct , reprove , admonish , exhort to repentance such of her professed members as go astray , and ( if nothing less will serve ) to refuse communion with the impenitent , and those that reject her , and declare them not to be of her . now that it may appear how reasonable as well as needful it is , that there should be such power in the church of christ , i desire the reader , in the next place , to consider , that in the best religious societies of men , there have always been ( as to outward profession ) good and bad , true and false , right and wrong . with israel of old there came up , out of egypt , a mixt multitude , or a great mixture , exod. . . besides which , many of the israelites themselves , when they came to be tryed in the wilderness , proved to be murmurers , complainers , gain sayers and rebellious : so that the apostle rightly observed , they are not all israel , which are of israel , rom. . . in the christian church , at the first gathering thereof , many that walked a while with christ , so far as to be reputed his disciples , wont back ▪ and walked no more with him , iohn . . how ▪ it was afterward , in the apostles times , the epistles of the apostles sufficiently show . there were in the church at corinth , some that were carnal , and walked as men , cor. . . there were many , the apostle tells the philippians , that so walked , that they were the enemies of the cross of christ , phil. . . there were some in the church at thessalonica , that walked disorderly , thes. . . there were some in the church in fergamos , that held the doctrine of balaam , who taught balack to cast a stumbling-block before the children of israel , to eat things sacrificed to idols , and to commit fornication ( for by that name doth the holy ghost call those unlawful marriages , of believers with unbelievers , which balaam taught balack to draw the children of israel into with the midianitish women . ) rev. . . there were some also in that church , as well as in the church in ephesus , that held the doctrine of the nicolaitans ver . . & . which by ecclesiastical writers is delivered to have been community of wives , as well as of other things . and sure enough it was some great evil , which christ exprest his hatred of . there was in the church in thyatira the woman iezabel , seducing ( like balaam ) to fornication , &c. not to fetch instances out of every church , there were some that walked after the flesh , in the lust of uncleanness , . pet. . . these were presumptuous , self-willed , despised government , and spake evil , not only of dignities , but of things they understood not , ver . . yet these were great sticklers for liberty : for they promised liberty to such as they allured , being themselves mean while the servants of corruption , ver . . of whom a more full description may be seen in the rest of that chapter , and in the epistle of iude. thus it was in those times . how it hath been in our time , since the lord first gathered us to be a peculiar people to himself , they must have had but little experience , or made but little observation , that need to be informed . how many that have walked for a while ( some for some years ) with friends in the profession of truth , have turned their backs thereon , and gone off , some into the sea again , some into nets ! what has been the general pretence of these , but want of liberty ? the way of truth was too strait for them ? they wanted a broader way . how many , even of them that retained the profession of truth , have slept aside , some into one odd thing , some into another , under pretence that they had freedom so to do ? did not they that ran out in i. perot's business , plead being left to their freedom , to their liberty ? they did so : and by that plea were some , to my knowledge , betrayed into that snare . now since it is evident , by the instances given , that in the true church in all times , there have been ( as to outward profession ) bad as well as good , wrong as well as right , what can be more reasonable , than that there should be in the true church such a power , as may enable those that are right to acquit themselves , their principle and profession from the disorders , of whatsoever kind , committed by them that are wrong ; which they can never do , if those that are wrong may exempt themselves from being called to account , and reproved for their disorders , by alleadging that what they have done , they had liberty and freedom in themselves to do . now this hath happened , in a great part , through a misunderstanding and misapplication of true spiritual liberty . for though all that have received , and are indeed guided by the grace of god and spirit of truth , are to be left to it , to act for god in the liberty and freedom that it gives . yet for any to infer from thence , that every one that pretends to the grace of god and spirit of truth , ( though it be too apparent that they are not subject thereunto ) must be left to that freedom , which they call ( and in one sense rightly enough ) their own , to that liberty which they have set up in and for themselves , though it leads such to thwart , oppose , gain-say and disturb the rest of the same society ; this is not right , but ( whatever else may be pretended ) is both wrong it self , and an inlet for that which is wrong . for the meaning of that plea , that every one ought to be left to his freedom , &c. is this , that none should be accountable , or answerable to the church , or congregation they are reputed to be of , for what they do , ( that is not simply evil , or evil in it self , as the adversaries in their book distinguish ) so that , although what they do be disorderly , and that which either directly , or by consequence , tends to bring scandal , and trouble upon the whole society ; it is enough to stop the churches mouth , for such an one to say , i have liberty and freedom in my self to do so or so . and thereupon the church may not judge , may not reprove , may not blame such an one ; but must be obliged to own and receive such an one as a friend , a brother in the truth ( though walking out of truth ) as a member of the body ( though acting against the body . ) this were to set up a false liberty , to overthrow the true liberty ; to give liberty to particulars , and take it from the general : which to do , were contrary to truth , and to true reason . for surely , how much liberty soever a part may claim , the whole may claim as much . and therefore , if each particular hath liberty to choose , or refuse things , according as they are perswaded the things are right or wrong ( which it is fit they should : ) why should not the whole have like liberty to receive , or refuse such persons , with respect to membership , according as they are perswaded that such persons , so acting , are in , or out of , that spirit in which the true membership stands ? but this liberty the church should be deprived and debarred of , if she were bound ( as the adversaries would bind her ) to own and receive for members all such as make any profession of truth , though walking and acting contrary to her , and ( as she believes ) to truth , under pretence that they walk and act according to their own liberty and freedom . he that would shun the cross of christ in any testimony that truth leads to , hath scope enough under this plea to do it . he that , for advantage or fear , will break christ's command , and swear , can say he hath freedom so to do , and is not perswaded in his own mind of the unlawfulness thereof . he that , to shun sufferings , will pay tythes to the hireling-priest ; he that will marry by the priest , or take in marriage one that is not in the profession of truth , hath the same plea for his shelter ; and so in other cases of evil. this the adversaries saw , but saw not how to answer : and therefore in their th page , having said , there 's but one objection , and that is , that this ( leaving all to act according as they are free , &c. ) is to give liberty to evil ; they add , which we may speak to in another place . and so they shift it off in this place . and having thus given it the go-by here , never give any direct answer to it ( that i observe ) throughout their whole book . in their th page they touch it , but presently start back , and slide off of it again . there they say , what can hinder the putting this in practice , but the devil in the likeness of truth , perswading this was to give liberty to evil ? then add , 't is a mistake to think , this is to give liberty to evil , while our end , we are sure , bears witness to the contrary . rep. they are sure ! what assurance doth their saying , they are sure give to others ? their witness-bearing , as it is of themselves , and for themselves , may perhaps reach no further than to themselves . but suppose charity should extend it further , and on that foot it should be granted , that their end , or intention , is not to give liberty to evil. doth it therefore follow that that unlimitted plea , for leaving every one so to act , according as they are free and perswaded in their own minds , as not to be accountable for their actings , may not give liberty to evil ? may not people have a wrong freedom , a freedom to do evil , and a false perswasion in their own minds , that that wrong freedom is a right one , notwithstanding that god hath given them a manifestation of his spirit to profit withal , if they do not ( and it is too plain that too many do not ) obey and follow the leadings of that good spirit , that they may profit thereby ? but what answer do the adversaries now give to that one objection , which they took notice of in their th page , and then made a shew as if they would speak of it in another place ? truly none at all . but instead of answering it ( which was reasonably to be expected from them ) they excuse themselves , but very poorly , from answering : for after they have told us , they are sure their end is not to give liberty to evil , they add ▪ but to answer all the objections that may be made , as it would take up too much time , so perhaps we may not know all that may be advanced ; so we shall omit that , till we are better informed of them , as also , till more fitting opportunity do occur . rep. a dull come-off ! who , that were shameless , might not , at this rate , avoid answering any objection that lies hard upon them , by pretending it would take up too much time to answer all objections , and that perhaps they may not know all that may be advanced ? they told us in their th page , there is but one objection ; and that is , that this is to give liberty to evil ; and they made a kind of promise to speak to that in another place . ( why did they not answer this one objection , which themselves had advanced ? ) now , because they know not what to say to it , nor how to answer that one objection ; they pretend it would take up too much time to answer all the objections that may be made , and that perhaps they may not know all that may be advanced . is not this pittiful shuffling ? is not this mean trifling for men ! for such men ! for men so cryed up , as some of them are ? perhaps , say they , we may not know all that may be advanced . what then ? should that hinder them from taking notice of what they did , or might know , of what was advanced ? did not the book they pretend to answer enumerate several particular evils , which the enemy by that plea ( of leaving every one to act as he is free , &c. ) is introducing a liberty to , as paying tythes to hireling-priests ; marrying by the priest , declining a publick testimony in suffering times , or hiding in times of persecution , worshipping and respecting the persons of men ; and observing the world's holy-days and mass-days ( as they call them ? ) why did they not answer these that were advanced , as there phrase is ? did they want to be better inform'd , whether these are evils or no ? they could not but know , that most of these evils have been closely charged , as the fruits of that spirit they are now joyned to . and their so slightly slipping over them now , is no good sign that they are wholly clear and free from them . they boast indeed of life and conversation ; but distinguish not ( that i observe ) betwixt conversation civil and religious , betwixt that which relates to the world , and that which more especially respects the church of god. 't is true , they say in general words , p. . with respect to lives and conversations , place your iudgment upon what is evil , and spare not , for there it will stand ; for we plead not for evil in any . and again , we grant that any may reporve evil , and what is immoral , &c. p. . but their explaining evil by the terms immoral , and simply evil ( as in pag. . where they say , if nothing that is simply evil or immoral , can be charged upon your brethren , &c. and in p. . though nothing that is immoral , or evil in it self can be proved against them ) shews they mean by immoral , such open prophaneness and debaucheries as human laws correct . and so , notwithstanding their pretending not to plead for evil in any , their plea may indulge and countenance those evils before mentioned , of paying tythes to the hireling priest , of being married by the priest , &c. and of marrying such as are out of truth , yea , out of the profession of it ; yea , and of all the disorders that heady and unruly persons are capable of committing against church-society , by raising and fomenting strife and contention amongst brethren , by drawing and gathering into parties , sides and factions , by making schisms , rents and breaches , by running into down-right division , and open separation . all which are evils , and such evils as the judgment of truth always was , is and ought to be placed upon . but seeing the adversaries hide themselves under the terms [ simply evil , or immoral ] let me ask them more particularly , whether it be not an immoral act for any one to deprive another , by force or fraud , of his just right and property ? they know what of this kind has been done by some of their own party at reading , and other places , where they have forcibly kept friends out of their publick meeting-houses , and deprived friends of their just and lawful right and property in those meeting-houses , contrary to all right and justice . now though truth 's judgment hath been placed , and doth stand and abide , upon this evil , and upon the authors and abettors thereof ; and though , being so undeniable in fact , and so gross in nature , some of the adversaries are ashamed , or afraid to plead for it : yet which of them all has joyned with friends in placing the judgment of truth upon it , and upon them that are more immediatly guilty of it ? nay , do they not rather own and joyn with such as have been and are most guilty in this case , and receive such of them as are preachers , to preach and pray amongst them ? in their th page , they take a slight notice of the latter part of the author's answer , where he said , but if thou pleadest thy freedom against such things , yea , obstructest and slightest such good , wholsom and requisit things ( namely such things as are holy , just , lovely , honest , comely and of good report , as he had mentioned just before ) thy freedom is naught , dark , perverse , out of the truth , and against the perfect law of love and liberty . in the reciting of which , i observe , they slip over these words [ obstructest and slightest ] as being conscious perhaps that they have done so , and have no colourable defence to make for their so doing . their answer to the rest is this , this is still to the same tune ; here is a iudge implied , but not set forth ; 't is not ( say they ) the spirit of truth , but some outward thing , whatever it is ; and they add , we know not where he will fix , &c. rep. to the same tune ! they were in a jolly humour sure , when they borrowed this phrase from the ballad-mongers . so pag. . they say , shall we pipe to the same tune for company . truth would have taught them more gravity : and it is to be hoped their beguiled proselites will observe and take notice what a frothy spirit they are guided by . but though they say , the judge is not set forth , but only implied ; and by the●● saying [ whatever it is ] they imply they know not what it is ; nay , they confess in plain terms ; they know not where he will fix : yet , in this tuning strain they as boldly as blindly ( that is confessedly not seeing , or knowing what it is ) adventure to affirm , 't is not the spirit of truth . by which the children of truth know , that the adversaries , in this judgment , are out of truth . in the same airy vein they go on thus , but since we know not where he will fix , to say no more , 't is dark to be sure ; then ( as if , on a sudden , they would grow very kind ) to help it all we can , say they , we shall thus far grant , there are some outward things so far essential to true religion , as those that do contrary to them may be detected of error . rep. if it was dark before , how much clearer is it now ? for they mention not a syllable what these outward essentials are . they complain of want of certainty in the book they pretend to answer : yet themselves leave it wholly uncertain what they mean by these outward essentials . they suggest here , that in that book things are laid down in a general way , in which ( they say ) deceit or cunning often lurks . yet sure , nothing could be laid down in more general terms , than they have here mentioned their outward essentials ; for what to lurk under , let themselves consider , others judge . but they say , the things suggested as the ground of difference , are neither such principles nor practices as have been from our beginning , nor yet such things as can be truly said to be essential to true religion . rep. i will not here descant on their beginning , though the conceitedness of the expression would even invite to it . but i would know what things those are , that they say are suggested , as the ground of difference , and by whom they are so suggested . are not these generals designed for a shelter for something to lurk under ? but suppose for the present , that the things they suggest , are suggested as the ground of difference , are neither such principles nor practices as have been from their beginning ; what then ? is their beginning the boundary ? the nil ultra ? was there a bar then set , a limitation to the illimitable holy one , that nothing , not then in practice , should thereafter be ever brought into practice , for the service of the church of christ ? but say the adversaries ( and they bid us observe it ) if the things suggested as the ground of difference , are not essential things ▪ nor yet such things as have been from our beginning , then they can at best be but circumstantial , or if you will , ceremonial or shadowy things , and such things at best are but accidentaly good , that is ( say they ) as persons are perswaded of them , and what is but accidentally good , may on the contrary be accidentally not good , and that is ( say they ) as persons are dissatisfied with them . rep. 't is fit we should ( as they desire ) observe this : for i think there are many things observable in it . first , when they say , if the things suggested , &c. are not essential things , not yet such things as have been from our beginning , they can at best be but circumstantial ; they plainly imply , that if those things had been from their beginning , they might have been more than circumstantial , although they had not been essential things . an absurdity that , at best , must needs spring from conceited ignorance . secondly , by making the terms circumstantial , or ceremonial and shadowy , synonomous , or of the same signification , they render all outward performances of gospel-worship , contrary to the nature of it , shadowy ; since no outward act of worship ever was , or ever can be performed without circumstance . if the other passage shewed their ignorance , this , i think , will not commend their knowledge , at least , in divine matters . thirdly , their saying such things are at best but accidentally good , savours of no good understanding or sense . but fourthly , in making such things accidentally good , or not good , according as persons are perswaded of them , or dissatisfied with them , they have exceeded common weakness ; and to speak favourably , draw too near to the borders of ranterism . for it was the grand notion of the ranters , and the source of their immodest and unclean practices , that things were no otherwise good or evil , than as persons apprehended or thought them to be so : only they extended it more generally : these seem to restrain it to such things as they call circumstantial or ceremonial , which yet they confound with shadowy . but let me ask these adversaries , do ye think or hold , that this was always so ; or only so now of late , since your beginning ( as ye speak ) that is , were all circumstantial things , or ( according to your notion ) shadowy things , always , in all times , and places , good , or not good , according as persons were perswaded of them , or dissatisfied with them ? or are they so now of late only : there were many circumstantial things attendant on the service of god under the legal dispensation and shadowy things , not a few . were those things then good , or not good , according as persons were perswaded of them , or dissatisfied with them ? or would a persons being dissatisfied with any of those things then , have freed him from the obligation of them ? that had been a ready way indeed to have made void the commandments of god. but even the rebellious iews , as bad as they were , never ( that i remember ) made such a plea. will ye rather chuse to say that , though it was not so then under the law ; yet it is so now , under the gospel ? but since ye have resolved circumstantials into shadowy things ; what will ye do with them under the gospel ? will ye assert shadowy things to be good now , under the gospel , if persons are perswaded they are so ? be perswaded to consider better of it first . at this rate , the same act of religious worship may , at the same time , and in the same assembly , be good to one , not good to another of the same society , according as they differently esteem it . it will , on this ground , be as good for men to offer up publick prayers to god with their hats on , if they are so perswaded and satisfied , as to pray with their heads uncovered . for ye shall find , if ye look rightly into it , that this notion of yours is but a fresh sprout from the old root of the hat-controversie in iohn perot's time . i have some cause , more perhaps than every one of you , to understand this wile of the enemy , having been in some degree beguiled by it then . in humble reverence of soul , and with thankfulness of mind , i pay this acknowledgement to the god of my deliverance , who was graciously pleased to shew me this snare , and deliver me out of it . and in tender pity , i warn you of it . another strange notion the adversaries have immediatly after these , in their th and th pages , where speaking of things which they say , they believe concern only the outward court ; they add , which god hath left unmeasured , on purpose that christians might never differ about them . this they repeat in their th page , saying , we are sure that he hath left such things on purpose unmeasured , that men might agree . as if what god had measured , he had therefore measured that christians might differ , that men might not agree . for their affirming that god hath left some things unmeasured , on purpose that christians might never differ about them , implies ( by that way of contrary arguing which they so much use ) that god hath measured some things on purpose that christian might differ about them . but as that were wicked to imagin : so i wish the discovery of so many absurd and false notions as have here ( in a few lines ) dropt from them , may awaken them and others , to consider what spirit it is they are guided by . when they say , they believe , nay , are sure , god hath left such things ( as they except against ) unmeasured , on purpose that men might agree , that christians might never differ about them ; i take their meaning to be , that god hath therefore left such things free , that some may practice them , others not practice them , according as either sort like or dislike them , without taking offence at each other therefore . now if this be their meaning , this is of force against themselves , to clear the things they except against from having evil or harm in them : for if there were any evil or harm in them , god would not leave any of his people at liberty to use them . and then all the clamour and out-cry , division and mischief the adversaries have made , is against things which they cannot in truth say have any evil or harm in them . in their th page , the adversaries take up another question out of the forementioned book , which in that was thus laid down . but must i conform to things whether i can receive them or no ? ought i not to be left to the grace and spirit of god in my own heart ? the answer was , to the first part of the question , nay : to the last , yea. this answer they seem to like : for they say of it , this is fairly said we must confess . but as fairly as it was said , they unfairly alter it , in taking upon them to explain it ; for reciting the author's answer , viz. to the first part of the question , nay ; that is , say they , thou ought not to receive things against truth . whereas the first part , nor any part of the question was not , ought i to receive things against truth ? but it was , must i conform to things whether i can receive them or no ? betwixt which answer , and their explanatory gloss , there is no small difference , both in words and matter . for it is one thing , not to conform to things , because i cannot receive them ( which may be , and yet the things be agreeable to truth , and the fault in me only , that i am not in that which would lead me to receive them . ) and it is another thing , not to receive things against truth , which none ought to receive , and which it would be evil in me to receive and conform to , if i could . but though in this they deal not fairly by the author ; yet by his answer it is evident , that none is put upon conforming to any thing that they cannot receive : but all are left to the grace and spirit of god in their own hearts ( which is that that leads into the true spiritual liberty before defined ) though not to the freedom of their own unruly wills , to oppose , obstruct , revile and vilifie those things , which they say they cannot receive , and them that have received and do practice them : muchless to rend , divide , separate from them , and yet break in upon them , and force upon them their preaching and praying , as if they were still of them , though apparent enemies to them . but though they seem to approve his answer at the first , yet they soon find fault with it again ; because they think there is not sufficient provision made by him for withstanding the things , if the fault be in them . repl. how may we suppose he could admit the fault to be in the things , which he prae-suppos'd to be good , wholsom , and requisit ? or how can the fault be in the things , if god has left them , as the adversaries say , unmeasured ; that is ( if i reach their meaning ) free for his people to practice , or not practice . he would not leave any thing for some of his people to practice , which others of his people could not practice from a fault in the thing it self . and although from the author 's asking , is the fault in the thing themselves ? they would gladly catch an advantage to infer , that it is fairly implied , if not granted , that the fault may lie on the side of the things brought in ; yet they fall short in that also : for interrogatvies have sometimes the force of negatives . the apostle , when he said , is there vnrighteousness with god ? rom. . . did not imply , muchless grant , that there might be unrighteousness with god. but they add , that the fault doth lie in the things , for any thing he hath said to prove the contrary . repl. it seems they expected a proof of negatives . that were needless . 't is enough that they have not proved a fault in the things they reject and despise . when they attempt that a disproof thereof , i believe , will not be wanting . they say , we may conclude such as bring them in ( viz. the things they say are suggested as the ground of difference ) are reputed leaders . repl. i say such as raised the opposition at first , and made the division thereby , and led into the separation thereupon , were reputed , and were , leaders among them . they add , p. . the leaders may do more harm in bringing in things that are wrong , than others can do in opposing some things that may in some sort be right . repl. if this be true to any purpose , yet it is nothing to this purpose . the things they complain of for being brought in , they have never proved to be wrong , nor ever can ; therefore there has been no harm done , by bringing those things in , as their phrase is . but the harm has been done by the heady and unruly opposition they have made against those things that are right . they say , the leaders have caused the people to err , and the effect was , that the people led by them was devoured . repl. this is rightly applicable to themselves : the children of light ▪ in the light , see it , and lament over them . their leaders have caused them to err , and by following them , they have been led into that separation , which , unless by repentance they quickly return from , will certainly destroy them . again , they say , the way to prevent the danger is , by allowing freely conviction and perswasion to precede conformity . repl. this is an evil suggestion , by which they would insinuate , that friends did press conformity before conviction and perswasion : which is utterly false , contrary to our principle , and contrary to our practice . that it is contrary to our principle , the book and place they here pretend to answer , evinces : for there the author , having put the question , must i conform to things whether i can receive them or no ? answers directly and positively , nay ; and even so they cite his words . in the same place also he says , thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly ; yet thou art to consider , why thou art ignorant , and what the cause of such ignorance may be . what can be plainer ! that it is contrary to our practice also , is matter of fact. let the adversaries therefore prove if they can , that friends press conformity before or without conviction . they go on in their th page to quarrel with another expression of his , which is this , it is a dangerous principle , and pernitious to true religion , and which is worse , it is the root of ranterism to assert , that nothing is a duty incumbent upon thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty . against this they make a great noise . this , they cry out , is as removing a bounder or land-mark . 't is , they say ; of the same nature with conviction or perswasion ; for if ( say they ) conviction and perswasion is to go before conformity in our duty to god and true religion , then nothing can be a duty incumbent upon us , but what we are perswaded on : but if duty to god and true religion must be performed before convinced or perswaded to it , then something may be a duty incumbent upon us , that we know not , or are not perswaded on . rep. here they confound duty with performance of duty or conformity to duty ; which are different things , and ought to be distinguished : and their not distinguishing them has puzzled their heads . performance follows duty ; not duty , performance . duty , in order of time , as well as in the nature of things , is before performance , as the cause is before the effect . now the assertion here taxed for a dangerous principle is not , that nothing can be performed as thy duty , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty : but , that nothing is a duty incumbent on thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty . though it be true , that a man cannot rightly perform a thing as his duty , which he is not perswaded is his duty : yet it doth not thence follow , that it is not his duty , because he is not perswaded it is his duty . it is not simply want of perswasion or conviction , but want of sufficient means for perswasion or conviction , that can exempt any man from the obligation of duty . the iews , though they had sufficient means for conviction , or perswasion that it was their duty to own and receive christ for the promised messiah , yet were not perswaded that that was their duty ; was that therefore not a duty incumbent upon them ? if i had not come , and spoken unto them , saith christ , they had not had sin : but now they have no cloak for their sin , joh. . . why so ? they were never the more perswaded of their duty for his speaking to them . well , but they had sufficient means to have been perswaded , had they not resisted it . we read of some of old , that of some things were willingly ignorant , pet. . . of others , before them , that said unto god , depart from us , for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways , job . . unlikely were these to be perswaded of duty . was therefore no duty incumbent on them ? this were a ready way indeed for men to discharge themselves of all duty , if through negligent carelesness , or wilful resisting , they harden themselves against conviction . but as that is a dangerous state ; so this is a dangerous doctrine : and the endeavours the adversaries use to justifie and establish it , render their bottom the more justly to be suspected . now let us see what mediums they use to maintain this doctrine or principle , that nothing is a duty incumbent upon one , but what he is perswaded is his duty ; if , say they , to assert or believe that nothing is a duty incumbent upon us , but what we are perswaded on , be in its self a dangerous principle , pernitious to true religion , and what is still worse the root of ranterism , then the saying that stands against this must be as good as that is evil ; that is , it must be a safe principle , propitious to true religion ; and which is still better , it should be as the root of all good to men : for we conceive , the root of ranterism is as the root of all evil. repl. here they run a ground again , by tampering unskilfully with logical conclusions . to shew them their mistake , i refer them to tim. . . the apostle there says expresly , the love of money is the root of all evil. doth it therefore follow , or will they thence infer , that the hatred of money is the root of all good ? they say , the saying that stands against this , must be as good as that is evil. now the apostle having said , the love of money is the root of all evil ; the saying that ( according to their sense ) stands against this saying of the apostle , is , that the hatred of money is the root of all good. but i think they are not so much out of love with money , as to assert that . they run on , pag. . in the same false way of reasoning , thus , if to assert that nothing is a duty incumbent on us , but what we are perswaded on , be the root of ranterism , &c. then , to avoid this shoal , we must believe that something is a duty incumbent upon us , that we are not perswaded on ; and if we can thus believe , we must of necessity depend on him or others , to let us know what our duty is . rep. this is the thing the adversaries drive at , to make their proselites believe , that friends endeavour to draw people from a dependence on the gift and manifestation of god in themselves , to depend on them for direction to , or information in their respective duties . but this is utterly false , a wicked slander and an evil design to beget in such a prejudice against friends , that they may the more easily gain , the more strongly bind such to their party . nor is their way of reasoning here fair or forcible . for supposing something is , or may be a duty incumbent upon a man , which he is not perswaded to be his duty ; it doth not thence follow , that he must of necessity depend on some other man , to let him know his duty . this is no true consequence . though the adversaries say , if we can thus believe , we must of necessity depend on him or some other , to let us know what our duty is ; yet there is no such necessity ▪ the necessity such an one is under , is , to depend more truly on the gift of god in himself , to attend more diligently and duly thereon , that so by and from that manifestation of the spirit , which god hath given unto him to profit withal , he may come to receive a right sense , a true understanding , a clear discovery of the mind and will of god to him , with respect to that duty or thing , which hitherto , for want of such a due and diligent attendance upon the heavenly gift in himself , he has not had a clean sight of , a full satisfaction in , but has been in the dark and doubting concerning it . so that the supposing a possibility for something to be a duty incumbent upon a man , which he is not perswaded is his duty , hath no tendency to draw him from a dependence upon the gift of god in himself ▪ for a discovery thereof ▪ but rather to drive him some to it , to excite him to a more close and diligent attendance thereunto , that he may thereby come to see and know what yet he doth not . for , if the adversaries do , yet none else , i think , will think that every man doth , at all times , so watchfully attend upon the gift of god in himself , that he doth not at any time miss , or fall short of knowing the mind of god thereby . he , to be sure , thought otherwise , who said , god speaketh once , yea , twice , yet man perceiveth it not , job . . now this slanderous suggestion of the adversaries , is the more vile and wicked in them , in as much as they know it to be a slander ; and that very book , which they pretend to answer , doth plainly prove it so ▪ for in the th page of that book ( called , a brief examination and state of liberty spiritual ) to the question , but if i do not presently see that service in a thing , that the rest of my brethren agree in , in this case what is my duty ? the answer is , it is thy duty to wait upon god in silence and patience , out of all fleshly consultations ; and as thou abidest in the simplicity of the truth , thou wilt receive an vnderstanding with the rest of thy brethren , about the thing doubted . is this to draw from the gift of god in ones self , to depend upon others for guidance ? yet the adversaries say , pag. . this ( to wit , that something may be a duty incumbent upon one , though he be not perswaded it is his duty ) is to impeach the grace of god , and spirit of truth , to whose sufficiency so many testimonies have been born , as not now sufficient to lead all into all truth . rep. no such matter . they had no cause to suggest this ; no ground for it . the book they pretend to answer denys it positively ; for asking where the fault is , it says , pag. . is it thy weakness , or thy carelesness or if thy weakness , it is to be born with , and to be informed ▪ if thy carelesness , thou oughtest to be admonished . and a little lower in the same page it follows thus , so that though thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly , yet thou art seriously to consider , why thou art ignorant , and what the cause of such ignorance may be ; certainly it can't be in god , nor in his gift to thee [ mark that ] it must then needs be in thy self ▪ &c. this is plain enough ; and this they could not choose but see , picking up matter just before and after it ; which shews they had a design to abuse friends , and that makes their guilt the greater . yet thus they go on , adding falshood to falshood . for in their same page they say , the consequence of his arguing is to make us believe , that somthing is a duty incumbent upon us that we do not know , and yet at the same time doth not let us know on whom we may depend . whereas ( as i have cited before ) he said expresly , pag. . it is , thy duty to wait upon god , in silence and patience , &c. so that he did let them know on whom they were to depend , namely upon god. again , they insinuate as if their not understanding their duty , were placed upon their inability . whenas they know , it is laid upon carelesness , disobedience , prejudice , &c. but this they do , on purpose to render friends odious to their separate party , as if we held that somthing may be a duty incumbent upon one , which he cannot know , which he is in no capacity of being perswaded of ; whereas indeed we hold no such thing . for what is impossible for a man to know , to understand , or be perswaded of , cannot be said to be a duty incumbent on him . but what he may know , what he hath sufficient means to understand , what he is put into a capacity to be convinced and perswaded of , by the gift and manifestation of the spirit , which god hath given him for that end , may be a duty incumbent on him , although he , through his carelesness , negligence , non-attendance on the gift , or prejudice against the thing , hath not received a certain knowledge , understanding , conviction or perswasion that it is his duty . had the adversaries taken the matter plainly and fairly , as it was laid down in the book they pretend to answer . they had not thus run beside the line . but their manner is ( as is obvious to an observing reader ) when they have pickt out a sentence which they intend to oppose , to turn it this way and that way , to shift it to and fro , to alter the form of it , till they have varied it from the author's terms and sense , and fitted it to their own turn and service , and then triumph over it . thus ( besides other instances ) they have done in this particular case . the sentence , as they first quarrelled with it , was this ; it is a dangerous principle , and pernitious to true religion , and which is worse , it is the root of ranterism to assert , that nothing is a duty incumbent upon thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty . no sooner had they drawn this forth , but in their first modelling of it , they slip in the words conformity and performance ; whereas duty is one thing , performance of it another , as i have noted before . then in the next place , they frame up another sentence , in terms ( as they apprehend ) directly opposit to this , and argue from one to t'other , till at length they have slipt it quite beside its first and right bottom , and set it upon a bottom of their own , an inability to understand ; whereas the sentence is not , that it is a dangerous principle to assert that nothing is a duty incumbent on thee , but what thou art in a capacity , or hast means to understand or be perswaded of ( for there were no danger in asserting that ) but , it s a dangerous principle , &c. to assert , that nothing is a duty incumbent on thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty . there is some odds , sure , betwixt thou art perswaded , and thou mayst be perswaded , or thou art in a capacity , or thou hast means of being perswaded . yet the adversaries , confounding these terms , run on to the same effect . for , taking offence at the mentioning of seared , dark , dead consciences , in the book they pretend to answer ( which the author there mentioned , to set forth the dangerousness of asserting as a principle , that nothing is a duty incumbent on thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty : for , said he , the seared conscience pleads his liberty against all duty , the dark conscience is here unconcerned , the dead conscience is here uncondemned , &c. ) they say , p. . there is a vast difference betwixt denying all duty to god , and believing nothing a duty but what we are perswaded on . the first , say they , deny all duty ; the latter owns all duty that can be known . repl. this is a high and bold , but not a safe expression . to own all duty that can be known , is not an ordinary state . but let us see who this first is , that denys all duty , and who the latter . the first , that which pleads liberty against all duty , is expresly term'd the seared conscience , in the book & place the adversaries pretend to answer . the dark conscience , and the dead conscience , are not there charg'd with that , with pleading liberty against all duty , or denying all duty . how then know the adversaries but the dark conscience may find a place among the latter , among those that believe nothing a duty , but what they are perswaded of ? and how then will it hold that the latter , they that believe nothing a duty but what they are perswaded of , do indeed own all duty , that can be known ? will the adversaries , upon second thoughts , advisedly and consideratly assert , that all they who believe nothing a duty but what they are perswaded of , do really own all duty that can be known ? i don't think they will. nay i find they begin already to flag from it , within two lines : for they immediatly subjoyn thus , the first denying all duty is evil ; but the latter , as they own all duty that they know , so , &c. here it is not ( as above ) all duty that can be known ; but all duty that they know . if they own all duty that they know ; 't is well : but there is some odds sure , betwixt owning all duty that they know , and owning all duty that can be known . but so little constant to themselves , so little consistent with thenselves , are the adversaries , so loose and regardless of the terms they write in , that do know , and can know ; are known , and can be known , seems to be alike with them . they add , as the latter own all duty that they know , so may they wait truly to know what god is pleased further to shew . rep. i grant they may so ; i wish they would so ; and it is that which all are exhorted to . but if they do not so , what then ? what may be , may not be . and i suppose the adversaries will grant , that as they may , so it is not impossible but that they may not wait so truly , as to know what god is pleased further to shew . and then , if by reason of their not waiting , or not waiting so truly and rightly as to know what god is pleased further to shew , they fall short of , miss and deprive themselves of the knowledge of what god is pleased further to shew , or what god requires as a duty of them ; will their falling short through their own default , and missing the knowledge thereof , make it not to be a duty to them ? there were indeed times of ignorance , the apostle saith , at which god winked ; but now he hath commanded all men every where to repent , acts . . why now ? because now the gospel light , the discovering light , the universal light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world , is arisen and broken forth ; by the inshinings whereof every one is put into a capacity to know and understand what god requires of him . after all this , in pag. . they tell us , they believe where the gift of god is received to profit withal , and truly adhered to , nothing is a duty incumbent upon such , but what they are perswaded on . rep. here now they have given it another stretch . what was spoken with direct relation to a state of carelesness , disobedience , prejudice , &c. or a seared , dark , or dead conscience , they apply to such as have received the gift of god to profit withal , and truly adhered thereto ; and make their inference from that misapplication . what they speak , pag. . concerning circumstantial things being called requisit things , on the score that we could not ( as they say ) know dead , dark and seared consciences without them ; hath nothing in it but an unsavoury scoff , fit to discover what frothy spirit it came from . but when they ask , in the same flouting manner , if those requisit things that keep out or make known those dead , dark and seared consciences , &c. can keep out hypocrites : i must tell them , that is in one sense a difficult matter . for truly , i think , there can hardly be a grosser sort of hypocrites found , than those that having publickly printed friends to the world to be apostates , innovators , introducers of popery , idolaters , setters up of idols , with much more of that kind , and having upon that score ( as they pretend ) separated from us , and set up separate meetings of their own , will and no yet come , whether we will or no , into our meetings , in shew and pretence of joyning with us in worship , and impose upon us to hear them preach and pray among us , and require to be received and owned by us therein , after they have so publickly disowned us , and departed from us . but though such hypocrites will not keep out , but will thrust in , yet they cannot keep themselves from being discovered , but are known to be what they are . in their th page , they carp at an expression , taken out of the th page of that book which they pretend to answer . it is this , a saying may be true or false , according to the subject matters it is spoken upon , or applied to . they say , we believe he has missed the truth there . and repeating it , pag. . they say , that we believe is a mistake ; for we think truth 's testimonies are not false , because some may misapply them . rep. the author's words are not , that truth 's testimonies may be true or false , &c. but , that a saying may be true or false , &c. now we know every saying is not truth 's testimony . and yet , even that which is a true testimony when spoken of or applied to a right subject , may not be a true testimony , when spoken of or applied to a wrong subject . when the apostle said , i have fought a good fight , i have kept the faith , &c. henceforth is laid up for me a crown , &c. . tim. . , . this was a true testimony , as spoken of or applied to him . but this same saying , if applied to or spoken of iudas , demas , or any other apostate or wicked person , would not have been true , but false . but though they cavil at this saying from him , yet they could be content the same fort of expression should pass for truth from them , when they thought to serve their own turn by it . for in their th pag. blaming his answer to that question , which he said was true in a sense , they say it is so far true , that if it can be wrong at all , 't is only in a sense , and that is only when misapplied . misapplying then it seems , can make a right saying wrong , when they hope to get some advantage by it , else not . doth not this shew both great partiality , and a captious mind ? so also , they wrangle much about that expression , the root of ranterism ; whereas they might easily have seen it to be a metaphorical or figurative speech , to shew that that assertion was a radical or fundamental principle or doctrine of the ranters , from which ( as fibres from a root ) other erroneous tenets did sprout forth and grow up . but this shews their propensity to contention and quarrelling . now that it may most evidently appear , that all this out-cry against the author , and clamour against this passage in his book , as tending to bring in blind obedience , and draw from a dependance upon god , to a dependance upon man , for discovery of duty , &c. is without ground , and that his book hath not given them any colourable occasion for it ; but that they have wickedly perverted , and wrested both his words and meaning in that passage : i desire the reader more particularly to observe that passage , and consider the occasion , scope and drift of it . for the occasion , it is manifest it was written with direct relation to the careless state , to those who , through heedlesness and inadvertency , neglect and disregard the divine gift in themselves ; and so , for want of attending thereunto , are ignorant of its motions , and what the lord by it requires of them . for having put this question , but must i conform to things whether i can receive them or no ? and answered directly and flatly , nay ( which positively excludes blind obediences : ) the author thereupon puts the questionist to consider what the reason is that he cannot receive them , that so he may find where the fault lies , whether in himself , or elsewhere . therefore he subjoyns , is the fault in the things themselves ? are they inconsistent with truth , or will not the truth own or assent unto them ? as much as to say , if thou canst make appear that thou canst not receive them , because the things themselves are faulty , as being inconsistent with truth , then thou wilt appear clear in not receiving them . but if thou canst not rightly lay the fault upon the things themselves , then consider whether the fault is not in thee , that is to say , is it thy weakness , or thy carelesness ? if thy weakness , it is to be born with , and to be informed ; if thy carelesness , thou oughtest to be admonished : for though thou mightest have acquitted thy self , if thou couldest justly have laid the fault upon the things themselves , as inconsistent with truth ; yet thou canst not clear or acquit thy self by laying the fault upon thy ignorance , if thy ignorance proceed from , or be occasioned by thy own carelesness . and because some have entrench't themselves in their own ignorance , and thought themselves secure from obligation to duty , under a plea of want of sight ; therefore to excite such to a closer inquiry , to a stricter search , to a more diligent waiting upon the lord , for a clear discovery and sight of his will , the author there adds , that it is a dangerous principle , and pernitious to true religion , and which is worse , it is the root of ranterism to assert , that nothing is a duty incumbent upon thee , but what thou art perswaded is thy duty . and to evince the dangerousness of this assertion , and shew in particulars the perniciousness of this principle , he adds , for the seared conscience pleads his liberty against all duty , the dark conscience is here unconcern'd , ( reckons its darkness , its ignorance , it was want of sight and conviction , a sufficiet defence and excuse , and so concerns it self no further ) the dead conscience is here uncondemned , unless this distinction be allow'd of , that there may be an ignorance or an insensibility from inability or incapacity , or a dark education ( which he comprehended before under the word weakness ) and an ignorance and insensibility from carelesness , disobedience , prejudice , &c. hence it is most apparent that this passage related to the careless , disobedient , dark ones , who make darkness their refuge , want of sight there shelter . to such it is said , by way of reproof and admonition , it is a dangerous principle , &c. to assert , that nothing is a duty incumbent upon thee ( thou careless , disobedient , prejudiced , dark one ) but what thou ( who , by thy own carelesness , disobedience or prejudice , hast brought darkness upon thy self ) art perswaded is thy duty . now this being the plain and clear import of the place , it is not without violence and great injustice that the adversaries have strained , and applied this so such as have received the gift of god to profit withal , and have truly adhered thereunto . then , as to their suggestion that the author's drift , and the tendency of his discourse , was to lead into blind obedience , and from a dependence on god , it is utterly groundless . his own words prove the contrary , not only ( as i noted before ) in saying positively nay to the question , must i conform to things whether i can receive them or no ? but also , when in the same page , and on the same subject , he says expresly afterwards , thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly . this fully shuts out blind obedience . and so far was he from drawing to a dependence on man , for sight or understanding in point of duty , that he expresly says , pag. . the people of god ought to be left to the guidings of the spirit of god in themselves . and pag. . it is thy duty to wait upon god in silence and patience , out of all fleshly consultations , and as thou abidest in the simplicity of the truth , thou wilt receive an understanding with the rest of thy brethren about the things doubted . these are evidences plain enough : yet because the testimony of an enemy is accounted of great force , and unexceptionable , take here , for an over-plus , the adversaries own confession in the case , p. . where , of the author of that book they are so offended at ; they say , that he desires all should be guided by god's spirit , we believe . now , if they believe this of him , what , reader , may we believe of them , who have raised all this noise and clamour against him , charging him that he would bring in blind obedience , frighten into blind obedience , and lead to a dependence on himself or some others ; and yet now , after all this , confess they believe , he desires all should be guided by god's spirit ! but notwithstanding they say they believe thus of him , they presently blames him again , p. ● . for limiting it ( as they say ) to that one way , with respect ( as they apprehend ) to shadowy or circumstantial things , &c. reply . here again , and frequently in their following discourse , they run into their former error , confounding shadowy with ceremonial and circumstantial things , as if they were all alike , and had all but one and the same signification ; thereby rendring ( in their sense ) all circumstantial things shadowy things : which to be a great mistake , and such an one as would make all outward acts of gospel-worship , contrary to the nature of the gospel , shadowy , i have shewed before . yet upon this shadowy notion of theirs , they take upon them with confidence to pass judgment upon him , that though he may have received a measure of god's spirit , yet in plain he is not truly born of it . and this , methinks , is pretty briskly done for such , whose common theam and cry was wont to be , iudge not . next whereas the author of that book they cavil at in answer to that part of the question which was , ought i not to be left to the grace and spirit of god in my own heart ? had answered yea ; that is of all things most desirable , since they are well left that are there left ; for there is no fear of want of vnity , where all are left with the one spirit of truth ; they must be of one mind , they cannot be otherwise : to this the adversaries say , that those that are truly left with the one spirit of truth , must and will agree , we grant ; and therefore , where difference is carried on to the breach of charity , one side at least , must be wrong , but which , ought in god's fear to be inquired , the greater number cannot determin it . rep. here they grant that those that are truly left with the one spirit , must and will agree , and yet at the same time suppose they will differ ; and which is more , that they may differ , and yet neither side be wrong , if the difference be not carried on to the breach of charity . how they will reconcile these their different notions , i know not ▪ but since they yield that one side at least must be wrong , where difference is carried on to the breath of charity ▪ let the difference between them and friends be looked into , and inquiry made , in god's fear , on which side the breach of charity began , that it may thence appear ( according to their own proposition ) which side is wrong . and in this disquisition , we will not expect any advantage from being the greater number ; though they may give us ▪ leave to put them in mind , that when and where an argument from the greatest number , with respect to particular places , seemed to lie on their side , they have not failed to urge it . now in order to a right understanding , how charity came to be broken in the carrying on of this difference , it should be remembred , that when some things were recommended to the churches , relating to christian discipline , in order to prevent such disorderly and scandalous practices , as under an abuse of our principle of true christian liberty , a spirit of looseness and libertinism was introducing , some shewed themselves dissatisfied therewith , and unwilling to admit the use thereof , pretending that they did not see the service of the things recommended . though this plea was seen to proceed from weakness in some , and want of a true watchfulness unto , and waiting upon the heavenly gift in themselves , which would have given them a true sight and sense , as it did their brethren , both of the want , and of the usefulness of the things recommended : yet while they kept quiet , out of contention and open opposition , friends tenderly bore with them , and carried themselves brotherly towards them , endeavouring in the love of god , as occasion offered , to open and inform their minds in the things , concerning which they profest to doubt . but long it was not ere they , abusing the tenderness of friends towards them , grew high and heady , contentions and quarrelsome ▪ endeavouring publickly , and labouring much in private to gather into a faction , and make a party . which when they had in some measure effected ( having , by evil surmises and false reports , betrayed and misled many young convinced ones , and some that were but weak in judgment , as well as picked up others that went discontented , whose 〈◊〉 spirits and disorderly conversations had ●●●●●red them of the esteem they coveted amongst friends ) they then appeared more openly to oppose , revile and vilifie those things , which before they pretended to the doubtful of , and not to see a need of or service for , calling them in contempt and derision , men's orders , human edict , canons , constitutions , prescriptions , papists impositions , innovations , bulls , &c. not sparing any reproachful term , which they thought might beget , or increase , in their proselited party , a dislike of the things recommended , and a dis-esteem of friends . this their unruly and turbulent behaviour , gave occasion to friends to reprove them , and exhort them to study to be quiet , and have regard to the churches peace . and surely had they indeed had any regard to the love of their brethren , to the peace of the churches of christ , to the reputation of truth in the world , or to the honour of that holy name of the lord , by which we are called , they would never have begun , much less have carried on a difference , 〈◊〉 so high a breach of charity , as they have done and that about such things as some of themselves have declared to be ( in their esteem ) but trifles , small things , of little or no 〈◊〉 . but notwithstanding the endeavours , the labours and travels that were used by friends to have reduced them to a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; they grew still higher and higher in their opposition and 〈◊〉 carriage , till at length they made not only a breach of charity , but of meetings also , ●ending off from friends , and setting up separate meetings of their own , for themselves and their party to meet apart in , in separation from , and opposition to the constant settled meetings of friends , not only with respect to the outward affairs and business of the church , but even with respect to publick worship too : and in several printed books and papers ( written by some , and industriously spread by others of them ) published the difference to the world , exposing friends ( as much as in them lay ) to the contempt and scorn of the prophane , as apostates , innovators , idolaters ; setters up of images , idol-prophets , possessed with the spirit of belial , and the like ; and not only to the government , but even to the rabble also , as a treacherous company , introducers of popery , and but one step from it , &c. and that in a juncture of time , when the then present discovery of the popish plot had exasperated the nation against all that were but suspected to favour that communion . that this is the true state of the case ( though but briefly set forth ) i appeal to all friends that understand it , and hereupon leave it to all such to judge , in the fear of god , whether the adversaries be not they that have made this difference , and carried it on to the breach of charity ; and are therefore , according to their own conclusion , wrong . the adversaries having granted in their th page , that those that are truly left with the one spirit of truth , must and will agree ; they in the same page add , but that there must be an identity of opinion , as ( say they ) we think the school-men call it , that is a sameness of mind , and oneness of iudgment to circumstantial , ceremonial , or shadowy things , is sooner said than proved , and savours more of curiosity , than any real necessity . rep. it may perhaps be thought to savour more of curiosity , or something else , as vain-glory , self-conceit , or a fond affectation of being thought to have converst with school-men , than of any real necessity , or common discretion , for them to tell us what the school-men call sameness of mind , especially unless they could have done it upon better assurance than an [ as we think . ] they had better have kept in the school of christ , where they might have learnt sameness of mind , and oneness of iudgment with god's people in the things of god , than have puzzled their brains about identity of opinion , and made themselves ridiculous by cracking of their converse with school-men . but leaving them to their thoughts , and the school-men to themselves , they might have learnt from the author of the book they are so angry with , if it had pleased them to have taken notice of it , that there is a difference between sameness of mind , and contrariness of mind ; between oneness of judgment , and opposition of judgments . but if i may tell them so , without offending them too much , the word opinion ( with respect to religious matters ) is fitter for the school-men , th●n for any that would be taken for a quaker . nor is it aptly or properly expounded by the word iudgment : for iudgment implies certainty , and should be positive ; whereas opinion is but suppositive , importing uncertain or doubtful thought . they complain , pag. . that the author of the book they would answer , hath not made a difference between circumstantial things , and such as are truly essential . yet they themselves have not yet told us what things they account truly essential . they said indeed once , pag. there are some outward things so far essential to true religion , as those that do contrary to them may be detected of error . but they have not particularlized what those outward things are , nor whether they intend them for absolute essentials . but they are in the dark , and in confusion , and no wonder , having kickt against the light , and that wholsome order which the children of the light have in the light received . they say , though all that fear god must and will agree in things truly essential , yet there is no necessity that they must agree in circumstantial things . rep. this seems to me as if they should say , all must agree in things essential ; but they may differ , disagree , wrangle , jangle , contend and fall to pieces as much as they will about circumstantial things ; there is no necessity that they must agree in them . strange ! but whence should this liberty of disagreeing proceed ? are not all to be led by the one spirit of truth into all truth , into circumstantials , as well as into essentials ? or will the adversaries say , that in essentials indeed the spirits guidance is to be expected ; but for circumstantials , every one may choose for himself , and please his own humour ? if they will grant ( which methinks they should scarce care to deny ) that into circumstantial things all ought to expect , and may receive the spirits guidance and leading , as well as into those things which they call essential , will they then find any room for the disagreement they contend for ? can any one of a sound mind think , that the one holy spirit of truth will lead his followers to contradict one another in practice , any more than to contradict one another in words ? if all are led by the holy spirit , he will undoubtedly lead them to agree , not to disagree , in whatsoever he leads into . of the primitive christians it is written , the multitude of them that believed were of one heart , and of one soul , acts . . was it only in such things as are accounted essential ? or was it in all things then relating to religion amongst them , even in those things that were rather circumstantial than essential ? it may seem to be spoken more immediatly of those things : for it follows in the text , neither said any of them , that ought of the things which he possessed was his own ; but they had all things common . yet none , i suppose , will affirm that the community they had of goods and outward substance was essential to religion : for then they that hold not that community of goods , would want an essential part of religion . in their th page , having surmised before , that some circumstantial things have been over-valued they say , on the other hand , some , seeing this as a certain wrong , the enemy hath aggravated the matter to make both wrong , &c. here they seem willing to own themselves faulty , provided they may fix some fault too upon those they design to asperss ; but they may be supposed to understand their own guilt , better than anothers . if they are truly sensible that the enemy hath made them wrong , let them return to that which can make them right . they add , it is our danger , and will continue until the spirit of the son of god be more plentifully poured forth upon us that can say , father forgive them , they know not what they do : this ( say they ) is that which we want , and should truly wait for , that the great deceiver , the occasion of all strife and trouble among such as fear god , might be cast out , &c. rep. that saying , father forgive them , they know not what they do , if it be spoken according to truth , and in the spirit of the son , can be spoken only of such as know not what they do . the iews , of whom the son of god so spake , luke . . knew not what they did in crucifying him that came to save them . paul bears them that witness , cor. . . now it is one thing , not to be able to say of opposers , father forgive them , they know not what they do , from a belief or perswasion that they do know what they do : and another thing , not to be able to say of opposers , father forgive them , they know not what they do , from a want of the spirit of the son , which alone can inable in truth to say so , though there be a perswasion that the opposers do not know what they do . now this , it seems , is the state of the adversaries ; the want of the spirit of the son of god , plentifully poured forth upon them , that can say ( of such as oppose them ) father forgive them , they know not what they do . this ( say they ) is that which we want , and should truly wait for , that the great deceiver might be cast out , &c. that this relates to themselves , appears by the advertisement which they give at the end of their preface , where they say , the word [ we ] may be understood in respect to those of the same mind with the author of their book . their want of this , shews their condition to be bad ; their not truly waiting for it , shews it to be worse . and since they acknowledge , the great deceiver , the occasion of all strife and trouble among such as fear god , is not yet cast out , it is no wonder that he hath thus long deceived them , and yet doth deceive them , out of whom he is not yet cast , and through them occasions so much strife and trouble to those that truly fear god , but , as if they had already forgot what they have here acknowledged , they in the next page say , as we can truly say , father forgive them , they know not what they do , we are not without hope . but they deceive themselves , if they think they can truly say that , while they want the pouring forth of the spirit of the son of god upon them , in and by which alone that can be truly said . but , blessed be god , friends ( whom these adversaries oppose ) have received the pourings forth of the spirit of the son of god so plentifully , as that they can therein say of many , whom the great deceiver hath , through the adversaries , deceived , and by deceit drawn into the separation with them , father forgive them , they know not what they do . but though they here acknowledge the great deceiver is not cast out , yet they say they hope his casting out is near : for ( say they ) there seems but one grand remove to know the mystery of iniquity finished ; and that is ( say they ) to know our habitation in god , who we have professed hath appeared in us by his light and spirit . rep. it seems then they do not know their habitation to be in god now . but if they know not their habitation in god , in what do they know their habitation to be ? or do they not know where , or in what their habitation is ? oh uncertain and sad estate ! our saviour christ said , ioh. . . he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and i in him . if the adversaries object that this is an high state , let them know , that all short of this is too low , the same mouth having expresly said , vers . . verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood ; ye have no life in you . the beloved disciple said , god is love , and he that dwelleth in love , dwelleth in god , john . . again , he that keepeth his commandments , dwelleth in him , chap. . . and hereby , says the same apostle , know we that we dwell in him , and he in us , because he hath given us of his spirit , chap. . . the apostle paul dedicated two epistles to the church of the thessalonians , which is in god the father , and in the lord iesus christ. by all which it appears , that it is the proper state of god's people to have their habitation in god , and that god's people then had , and did know their habitation in him . and surely , i cannot but in charity believe , that some of those that are in the separation , have formerly known in some measure , an habitation in god also . but not keeping in the true love , but going out of that into the enmity ; not keeping his commandments , but rejecting , opposing , scorning , slighting , despising , reviling and vilifying them , and instead of teaching others to keep them , discouraging and diswading others from keeping them , have ( like the angels which kept not their first estate , or principality , iude . ) left their habitation in god ; and now , by their own acknowledgement , do not know their habitation in him , who they have professed hath appeared in them by his light and spirit ; but must have one grand remove more , before they can come to know their habitation in god again . o that all the beguiled ones among them would weigh this well , and see and consider what their separation hath brought them to , even to be destitute of an habitation in god! nay , if according to what they deliver in their th page , as man must be made a new creature , before he can come into christ , so must he travel through the whole mystery of iniquity ; in the last step of which travel , they say , the mystery is finished : then , since with them the mystery of iniquity is not yet finished , but there is one grand remove yet behind to know the mystery of iniquity finished ) they are not , it seems , yet come in to christ. in their th page they say , to make lesser things than essential things terms of communion , we have observed to be a great evil in others , and shall we cry it up as good in our selves ? and in pag. . they speak of making nothing terms of communion but essential things . and something to like purpose they toucht before , p. . rep. this is , first , an evil insinuation , to prejudice peoples minds against friends , as if friends did set up this , that , or t'other thing , as terms of communion with us . secondly , it is a plain indication , that the adversaries do not truly and rightly understand the saints communion , and the terms thereof . amongst other religious societies , as the communions are outward and visible , so the terms of such communions consist only in outward and visible things ; as an outward verbal acknowledgement of creeds , doctrines , &c. and an outward or actual observance or performance of such things as are reputed ordinances , duties , rights , &c. the confessing the former , and doing the latter of which , intitles any one to those communions . but the communion or fellowship of the saints in light is another thing . for as the dispensation of the gospel is spiritual , so the communion or fellowship which stands in the gospel , phil. . . is spiritual also . the apostles declares the terms thereof to be walking in the light , when he says , if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , &c. iohn . . as therefore the communion of god's people is spiritual , so the terms of that communion are , to receive the holy spirit , to be led by the spirit , to walk in or after the spirit , to obey the motions and requirings of the spirit . so that it is not an acknowledgement of doctrines , or an observation of outward practices , that can bring any one into the fellowship or communion of the people of god ( for the one may be in words acknowledged , and the other in act performed , by such as neither believe the one , nor regard the other . ) but it is a being truly subjected to , and led by the spirit of god , both to believe and confess to the doctrines of truth , and to take up and appear in those practices which the spirit of truth leads into , that are indeed the true terms of the true spiritual communion . and as a coming under the government and guidance of the spirit of christ , brings into communion or fellowship with the church of christ : so the departing from the government and guidance of that holy spirit , the grieving , the quenching , or resisting of the holy spirit in its requirings , shuts out of the communion or fellowship of christ's church . and as such a departure from the guidance of the holy spirit may be felt , and known by those that keep under the spirit 's guidance , by the holy unction , and that spiritual sense ( so much at this day by the adversaries set at naught ) which the people of god do from thence receive , as the lord is pleased to dispense it : so may it also be certainly and safely concluded , from either an abrenunciation and denyal of any of the doctrinal principles of truth , or from an opposing , rejecting , slighting , or reviling of any practice which the church of christ is by the spirit of christ led into . so that , though no outward things ( whether doctrines or practices ) are , or can be the terms of true spiritual communion : yet the rejecting , opposing , despising and slighting such outward things , as the church of christ is by the spirit of christ , led into the practice of , and finds acceptance with god in , is a certain discovering sign and token , that such opposers are departed from under the leadings and government of that holy spirit , in which the communion and true christian fellowship stands . in their th page , to suggest that friends would use violence as others have done , if they had more power , they say , do not object , that was only as carried on to violence ; for they that omit nothing of that power they have , who can believe , if such had more , they would imploy it better . rep. this shews their envy , but doth no more affect us , than it would the church of christ in all times . the apostles , we read , and primitive christians did not omit to exercise that power they had in reproving , rebuking , denying and testifying against such , in their times , as by loose and disorderly walking , or unruly , contentious , turbulent behaviour , disturbed the peace of the churches , and brought scandal upon the profession . such ( persisting in their disorders ) they declared not to be of them : such ( so persisting ) we declare not to be of us . they desired no greater power : neither do we . they , if they had had more power , could not have used it to outward violence : neither could we , if it were in our power . but what might be expected from the adversaries , if they had power equal to their wills , who have already given so plain a poof of their propensity to acts of violence , that , having no lawful power , they have usurped a power to keep friends by violence , out of their publick meeting-houses , wherein the friends , so kept out , have a plain , undoubted , rightful , legal property ! was it not a great piece of folly , as well as injustice , in them , to suggest such a thing against friends , which they knew they had no ground for ; when they could not but know with what an unavoidable force and stroke it would recoil upon themselves . in their th page they say , do we think we have been the most true that have been since the apostacy , which ( say they ) perhaps we have , as to notion and profession of the things of god ? rep. they did well to say [ we ] that it may be known they speak this only of and for themselves , having , at the end of their preface , directed us to understand the term [ we ] in respect to themselves . friends have no need of such advocates . the people of god , in scorn called quakers , they who have received the truth in the love of it , they who have obeyed the truth in the manifestation of it , they who have kept their habitation in the truth through the power of it , can say beyond thinking , much more beyond thinking with a [ perhaps , ] that they have been ( and , through the preserving power of god , are ) the most true that have been since the apostacy , and that not only as to profession of the things of god. but as to the true , living , experimental knowledge , injoyment and possession of the things of god. and before these adversaries had turned their backs on truth , and wandred from their habitation in god , they too perhaps would , without a perhaps , have adventured to have asserted this beyond thinking , and further than notion and profession only . but now we see how low they are sunk , that they can content themselves to say , perhaps we have been the most true that have been since the apostacy , as to notion and profession of the things of god. notion is a term they often use in their book , but not very properly , with respect to the things of god : for notion imports rather an uncertain speculation , than a solid , certain , scientifical knowledge , such as is fit to be had of religious matters . and therefore persons of speculative fancies are often called notionists , or men of high notions . but these men , it seems , dare pretend at highest but to notion and profession of the things of god , to think they have perhaps been the most true that have been since the apostacy . it seems then they do not think they have been the most true that have been since the apostacy , as to life , power , virtue , sincerity , divine injoyments , experimental knowledge in the things of god , possession of the living substance , &c. nay , with them 't is but a perhaps , that as to notion and profession they have been the most true that have been since the apostacy . but undoubtedly , were they not now apostatized from what some of them once have known and been , they would not have written in such a loose and unsensible manner . in the same th page , they confound themselves again with another of their own notions ; they say , we know 't is writ , they shall come from the west , north , east and south , to sit down with abraham , isaac and jacob in the kingdom . ( i know there 's something written to this purpose ; but where this is thus written , i know not . ) upon this they thus descant , those certainly was not of one external form or order , as to ceremonial and shadowy things , yet we find they agree . ( that , say i , is more than we can find from these : for rather than these will agree , they 'l oppose , rail , revile , print against , rend , divide , separate and tear , if they could , all in pieces : ) but , say they , perhaps some will say this ( agreement of all these from the four quarters ) is in heaven . well , add they , what then ? must they not agree on earth , that must agree in heaven ? rep. 't is fit no doubt they should ; and 't were well they would , that expect to come there . but if they must agree on earth that must agree in heaven , then pray consider , whether such an agreement as the adversaries propose , p. viz. that they must agree in some things , ( such as they account essential ) but there is no necessity that they must agree in all things , will serve the purpose . must the agreement in heaven be in some things only , and not in all ? what shattered work would these men make with their idle notions besides , is it not too ridiculous in these men , speaking of them that shall come from the west ( for they may be allowed to begin where the sun goes down , upon whom the sun is already gone down ) north , east and south , to sit down with abraham , &c. to say , those was not of one external form and order , as to ceremonial and shadowy things , and yet we find they agree , and apply this agreement to heaven ? do they think then that there are ceremonial and shadowy things in heaven too , where many perhaps , if not most , of the things which they account essential , will find no place ? however , if ( as they here , by a kind of affirmative interrogatives , deliver ) they must agree on earth , that must agree in heaven : if god's will must be done on earth , as it is done in heaven ; then surely they must retract their notion of a necessity of agreeing in some things ( essentials ; ) but no necessity of agreeing in other things ( circumstantials . ) is the will of god , think they , done in heaven by some , one way , by others , a clean contrary way in opposition to that ? their comparisons help them not , but helps truth against them . they go on for a while in a strain of interrogatives , pag. . is not christ , ask they , the head of all that is good , from the least breathing to the fullest perfection ? rep. all that is good proceeds from god and christ. but since head and members are correlatives , and all in whom some little ( not to say the least ) breathings may be , are not yet come to be joyned to the body of which christ is the head , and brought into a membership thereof , it seems not a clear and proper expression to say christ is the head of all that is good , &c. there may be good desires , and true ( though weak ) breathings after that that is good , in many in whom christ is not head , but the evil one is head , and christ as in the sepulcher ; the seed , from which those breathings spring , kept under , crushed down , pressed as a cart is pressed with sheaves , amos . . but among all those of whom christ is head ought there not to be an agreement ? doth christ , the head , dispose or allow any of his members to quarrel amongst themselves ? to oppose one another ? for some to slight , reject , deny and obstruct the work and service of the rest ? according to the doctrine laid down by the adversaries , pag. . that in circumstantial things ( as they call them ) there is no necessity that they must agree . these consider not that christ's coat was without seam , joh. . . a tipe of unity and agreement even in profession . they go on ; doth not he own all that 's of his own beegtting , every where , according to the degree of knowledge received ? — and as christ owns all that 's good , shall not we own it ? rep. yes ; he doth own all that 's of his own begetting , and so do his people . but he doth not own all those for his , and as members of his body , in whom he hath begot some breathings , neither do his people . for too many , in whom such breathings are begotten , answer not the love of him that begot them , but by joyning with the evil one , and doing that which is evil , stifle and quench those breathings , and greive him that begot them . therefore as christ owns all that is good , so do his people : but neither he , nor they , own all those to be of him , and fellow members with them , in whom there is some good thing . he has given of his good spirit unto all , even to them that rebel against it . the gift is good , and owned : the rebellious bad , and disowned . they go on ; doth not he gather all the good together in one , even himself ? rep. the scripture no where saith so , that i remember . but it saith , ephes. . . . he hath made known unto us the mystery of his will , according to his good pleasure , which he hath purposed in himself : that in the dispensation of the fulness of times , he might gather together in one all things in christ , both which are in heaven and which are on earth , even in him . this universal gathering is not spoken in the present tense , nor of the present time ; but of the fulness of times . neither is it spoken simply of all the good , as they express it ; but of all in christ : all these , both in heaven and one earth , hath he purposed , in the fulness of time , to gather together in one . they go on ; doth he gather all vniversally in every nation that fears him , and work righteousness , without respect to shadowy things , &c. wherein they may differ , for those he hath left unmeasured on purpose that they might not hinder , &c. and shall he not do it in one nation ? rep. the scripture doth not say , he gathers all universally that fear him , and work righteousness , without respect to shadowy things . but the apostle petet saith acts . . . of a truth , i perceive that god is no respecter of persons : but in every nation , he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted with him . this is without respect to persons ; not without respect to shadowy things : for they whose righteousness stands in shadowy things , are not therein accepted with him . but alsuch as he gathers , in this his day of gospel substance , if they were working righteousness in shadowy things before he gathered them , he gathers them out of the shadowy things to the substance . here the adversaries shew error upon error . first , they hereby suggest , that such as fear christ , and are gathered by him , may continue in shadowy things ; which is contrary to the nature of the gospel . this error springs from another ( which it self springs from extream ignorance ) that all circumstantial things are shadowy . secondly , they say , that they that fear christ , and are gathered by him , may differ ( that is , as in pag. . they explain it , there is no necessity that they must agree ) in shadowy things , as if christ gave liberty to his to differ , disagree , contradict , oppose one another in any thing . thirdly , that he hath left those things unmeasured on purpose that they might not hinder ( that is , not hinder their agreement . ) as if those things would have hindred their agreement , if god had measured them ; and as if he did measure other things on purpose that they might hinder the agreement of those about them , who were to practise them . oh the darkness and blindness that is come over these men ! they add , the true church is here indeed , but not yet referrable to any society , with respect to outward rules , &c. rep. this is the voice of the enemy , that would detract from , and deny the work which god hath wrought , and brought forth by his power , in this day of his glorious appearance ; wherein he hath reached unto many , and by the cords of his love hath drawn many unto himself , and hath gathered them into an heavenly communion with himself , and into an holy society and pure fellowship one with another in him . now as the true church is here indeed , so it is indeed referrable to this society , and that too with respect to such outward rules , as christ , who is the head of this society , hath given for the well-ordering of such outward things , as relate to the well-being and preservation of the society . but if ( according to the adversaries ) the true church is not yet referrable to any society , with respect to outward rules ; what then will become of themselves ! have they not hereby unchurched themselves ? or disclaim'd membership with the true church ? for do not they pretend to be a society , and that too with respect to outward rules ? how then can they pretend to be of the true church , which they will not allow to be yet referrable to any society , with respect to outward rules ? another passage which they carp at in the book they pretend to answer , is by them thus worded ; to plead being left to the grace of god against vnity , is to abuse the very plea , &c. to this they say , the drift of this argument is like the rest , to gaine a presumptive dependance upon men , &c. without true regard to conviction or perswasion . rep. if the drift of this argument ( as they call it ) be like the rest , then it cannot be to gain any dependence upon men , on any consideration whatsoever , without true regard to conviction or perswasion : for that has not been the drift of any of the rest of the arguments or matter in that book . but the drift of that passage , and of the rest also , was to draw from a feigned pretence of being left to the grace of god , ( as a cloak of evil , of any kind ) to a real acquaintance with , subjection to , and dependance on the grace of god indeed . this appears ( not only from several other passages in that book , as , thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly , page . and , it is thy duty to wait upon god , in silence a●d patience , out of all fleshly consultations , page . the people of god ought to be left to the guidings of the spirit of god in themselves , page . it is a great truth , that all are to be left thereunto , ibid , but ) very plainly from the words immediately foregoing those which the adversaries cavil at . for the question being there put , ought i not to be left to the grace of god in my own heart ? the answer there is , that is of all things most desireable , since they are well left , that are there left ; for there is no fear of want of vnity , where all are left with the one spirit of truth , page . this was far sure from a drift to gain a presumptive dependence upon men , without true regard to conviction or perswasion . and therefore it is evident , that the drift of the adversaries , in suggesting this slander , is to prejudice unwary readers against friends , by misleading them into a wrong apprehension , that friends endeavour to draw them from the divine grace , and holy spirit in themselves , to a dependence on men , to act according as men shall direct them , without true regard to conviction or perswasion in themselves . but this is a foul slander upon friends , and a gross abuse to the readers : for indeed , the contrary hereof is most true . friends as they have always done , so now , as much as ever , do direct all to the heavenly gift , the saving-grace that hath appeared , the manifestation of the spirit in themselves , of it to learn , and on it to depend , for both conviction and conduct in their religious performances . but , as on the one hand , they labour to bring every one to an acquaintance with this heavenly gift in themselves , and a true dependence on it for guidence by it : so , on the other hand , they caution all to beware , that they be not beguiled by the enemy in themselves , ( who forms likenesses of heavenly things , on purpose to deceive and mislead thereby , and for the same end transforms himself into an angel of light , ) and take him for their guide and leader , as too many have done , instead of the spirit of truth ; and then demand to be left to the grace of god in themselves , when indeed they are gone from the grace of god in themselves , and oppose the manifestations , operations , and productions thereof in others . so that the controversy ( rightly stated , and truly considered ) is not about being left , or not left , to the grace of god ( for that all should be left to that , was never doubted , much less denyed , by friends ) but about being left , or not left , to that which is pretended to be the grace of god , but indeed and in truth is not it ; and by the fruits it brings forth sufficiently manifests , that it is not it . they say , 't is true , to plead this against our understanding is an abuse of the plea , and is little better than heresie , but none can be an heretick that truly fears god ; therefore , to plead this against this or that thing , brought in by this or that man , or by this or that assembly , that we believe is wrong , is so far from abusing the plea , that it may be a true using of it . rep. this is a very loose and trifling way of arguing , having nothing cogent or conclusive in it . the passage they oppose is this , to plead being left to the grace of god against vnity , is to abuse the very plea. this was grounded upon , and drawn from an undenyed proposition , that where all are left with the one spirit of truth , they must be of one mind , they can't be otherwise . now from this proposition , that all who are left with ( that is , led by ) the one spirit of truth , must be of one mind , it fairly and naturally follows , that for any to plead a being left to the grace of god , and led by the spirit of god in themselves , in order to countenance or defend a being of a contrary , opposite mind from the rest that are led by the spirit of god , is to abuse the plea ; and to commit ( as the author of the examination there says ) the greatest contradiction to that very doctrine of scripture , viz. that all should be guided by the grace and spirit of god in themselves : for the end of that doctrine is certainty ; which the author there confirms by several scripture-evidences , as ier. . . ezek. . . acts . . &c. this the adversaries do not attempt to answer : but turn the matter from pleading this against unity , to pleading it against understanding , which , they say , is little be●ter than heresie , and grant that to do thus is an abuse of the plea. but can nothing be an abuse of the plea , but using it against understanding ? what if any have so little understanding in the things of god , as to believe that god's people may be led by the one spirit of truth to disagree , act contrary to , and oppose one another in the things of god ( as the adversaries say , in their th page , there is no necessity that they must agree in things circumstantial : ) is not this to abuse the plea , though it should not be done against understanding , but for want of vnderstanding ? for the plea of being left to the grace of god in ones self , is therefore said to be abused , because used to an end and purpose directly contrary to that , for which it was given . for the end for which it was given is to bring men into unity , both with god ( from whom the devil , by transgression , divided them ) and with one another in the things of god , in whom is no variableness , nor shadow of turning . and therefore to plead being led by it , out of unity , and against unity , is to abuse the very plea. and surely , if they go not against their understandings , they go much without vnderstanding , in concluding , that because it is an abuse of the plea to plead this against understanding , therefore ( for so they infer ) to plead this against this or that thing , brought in by this or that man , or by this or that assembly , that we believe is wrong , is so far from abusing the plea , that it may be a true using of it . for here is not only no coherence between their premises and conclusion : but a plain departing from the terms of the proposition ; which was a pleading this ( of being left to the grace of god in themselves ) against vnity . which word they wholly leave out , and instead thereof put in [ to plead this against this or that thing , b●ought in by this or that man , &c. ] this shews their shuffling , and idle way of arguing . however , we deny that any thing , believed or practised as a religious duty among us , was brought in by any man o● men , as men , but by the spirit of the lord , opening counsel in the hearts of his servants , and throu●h them recommending the use of such things to the church of christ ; and opening the hearts of such as waited singly in the same spirit of truth , to receive , close and joyn with the same , from an inward sense , conviction and perswasion that the things so recommended were of god : in which we have been , and are , abundantly confirmed , by the sweet and powerful presence of the lord with and amongst us in the use thereof , evidencing to our spirits his accepting us therein . and if the adversaries believe those things to be wrong , that doth not prove they are wrong ; though it may prove their belief and themselves wrong . in their th page , they quote another passage out of the said book , in these words ; " i must say unto thee , friend , what if thou wilt not be left unto the grace and spirit of god in thy self ? ( here they break off with an , &c. omitting the rest of the sentence , which in the said book follows thus , ) nor wait for its mind , nor be watchful to its revelations , nor humble and quiet till thou hast received such necessary manifestations , but pleadest against the counsel of the spirit of the lord in other faithful persons , under the pretence of being left to his spirit in thy self ; by which means thou opposest the spirit to the spirit , and pleadest for disunity under the name of liberty . their answer is , then such do the thing that is extreamly evil. rep. no doubt of that . but when they do so , what is to be done in the case ? are they to be left to their liberty and freedom in doing the thing that is extreamly evil ? is the church bound to own them , receive them , acknowledge and admit them , not only for members , but ministers and preachers , while they are doing the thing that is so extreamly evil ? or in case they disturb her godly care and practice , and grow contentious , and exalt their judgment against her , ( as the adversaries have done , ) hath she power from god to exhort , admonish and reprove them , and ( if they persevere therein ) in his name to refuse any further fellowship with them , till they repent of their evil , as , in the . pag. of the book they pretend to answer , is laid down , but not taken up , answered , or taken notice of by them , that i find . having nimbly answered to the former quotation , then such do the thing that is extreamly evil ; they immediately add , but on the other hand , what if they are left with the grace and spirit of god , which they may , or at least some ; for any thing that he hath said . rep. may they so ? that 's strange ! they that will not wait for the mind of god's spirit , not be watchful to its revelations , nor humble and quiet till they have received such necessary manifestations , but plead against the counsel of the spirit of the lord in other faithful persons , under the pretence of being left to his spirit in themselves , and so oppose the spirit to the spirit , and plead for disunity under the name of liberty ; may they for any thing that he hath said ( who hath said all this here , and more elsewhere ) be left with ( that is led by ) the grace and spirit of god in this ? but say they , what care has he taken ? what remedy has he provided , that true liberty and freedom of speech may be maintained ? rep. let them shew , if they can , when or where true liberty and freedom of speech hath been denied by friends . that it hath been indeed by the adversaries , may be proved , if need require . but it may well be supposed what sort of liberty and freedom of speech they would maintain , by the licencious liberty they have taken , and used in speaking of , and against such persons and things , as they dislike : a liberty to rail at and revile those whom they call their brethren , under the names of apostates , innovators , introducers of popery , setters up of im●ges , idolaters , idol prophets , a treacherous company , &c. a liberty to mock at scoff , jear and deride the order and discipline of the church of christ , under the contemptuous names of canons , constitutions , human-prescriptions , mens-inventions , edicts , bulls , &c. this is the liberty and freedom they have hitherto used , both in speaking and writing ; how true , and fit to be maintained , let all , that live in truth , judge . to the author's question , whether he may not exhort to the practice of what he is moved to press to the practice of ; they answer , we graunt he may , &c. adding , it 's not our duty to obey him , because he says it , but because we know , or at least are perswaded , that what he says is true , page . rep. neither that author , nor any friend besides , ever exhorted or desired ( much less pressed as a duty on any ) to obey him , or to do any thing of a religious concern , because he said it ; but have alwayes directed to that which would give every one a certain knowledge , and perswasion of the thing so exhorted to . there was therefore no need for the adversaries to fence themselves against that which was never offered them . but they delight , by such suggestions , to insinuate evil surmises into the minds of their beguiled proselites . in their . pag. they quibble upon the words [ common , and universal : ] for citing these words out of the book they pretend to answer , viz. but therefore are not the members of one mind and iudgement , in common and universal matters , relating to the church of god ? they answer , there is not much doubt in this when truly understood ; but we are to mind , say they , that we be not deceived and imposed upon , as to what is , or ought to be accounted common and universal matters . hereupon they give us their notion thereof , both affirmatively and negatively , thus ; by common and universal matters we understand ( and we hope , say they , according to truth ) what has been commonly and universally received , and not new and novel things that have not been so received . rep. this is not according to truth , which is free and illimitable ; whereas this would lay a limit and restraint upon god , from opening the way of truth and righteousness further and further , and from adding such helps and means for the propagation thereof , and preservation of his people therein , as he in his unsearchable wisdom shall see need of : for every fresh discovery may on this pretence be slighted , rejected as a novelty , in the same spirit wherein the world rejects the whole way of truth as a novelty . common and universal matters therefore , relating to the church of god , are not to be restrained to such things as have been commonly and universally received . for the envious seeds-man was not backward to sow his evil seed betimes ; and captious spirits have risen up early ( as well as now of late ) excepting against , some one , some an other thing , in doctrine or practice , yet pretending to own the fundamental principle of truth . so that the most approved practice amongst friends may , perhaps , fall short of having been , in a strict sense , universally received : for universal admits no exception . but by common and universal matters , relating to the church of god , are to be understood matters of common and universal vse and service in the church of god ; things not peculiar to this , that , or to'ther member only , but of common use or benefit to all the members of the body . and that the author so meant it , his own words plainly shew , page . where he says , degree or measure in the same life can never contradict or obstruct that which is from the same life , for the common benefit of the family of god. did iude call the salvation he writ of verse . common , because it was commonly received ; or because it was offered , intended and tendred as a common benifit to all that would receive it ? and whereas the adversaries say , this of conviction and perswasion preceding conformity , hath been a common and vniversal matter or thing , because commonly and universally received among us as a great truth . i reply , it is indeed a great truth , and hath been , and is , a common and universal matter ; but not for the cause or reason they assign : for if it had not been commonly and universally received among us , as a great truth ; yet it would have been a common and universal matter , relating to the church of god , because it is a matter of common and universal service and benefit to all and every member in the church of god. but since they here acknowledge that this doctrine , of conviction and perswasion preceding conformity , hath been commonly and universally received among us as a great truth ; they do ill to insinuate ( which too frequently they do , ) that friends would draw any to a conformity to any thing before , or without , conviction or perswasion . in their d page , they pick another piece of a sentence out of the book they pretend to answer , which they set down thus , what comes from the light , life and spirit in one , is the same in truth and vnity to the rest , as if it rise in themselves . this is seen in our assemblies every day , &c. now because they dare not directly gainsay this , and yet are disposed to wrangle , they pretend to know the design of the argument , and quarrel with that . the design , they say , of this argument is to gain a dependance upon the teachings of god , by instruments , equal at least to the teaching of god , immediately by his spirit , in our own hearts ; and this ( they say ) how plausible soever , is not according to the truth , as 't is in iesus . rep. their surmise in this case is wrong and evil , and therefore not according to truth . that which they suggest to be the design , was not the design of that argument ( as they call it . ) but the plain and true design of it was to obviat an objection , and cut off a false plea for disunion and discord , grounded upon variety of measures , and diversity of gifts and offices in the body . for the author . having put the question , page . are there not various measures , diversities of gifts , and several offices in the body ? and having granted that there are , proves that that variety and diversity of measures , gifts and offices in the body , administers no ground for disunion , discord or contrariety amongst the members of the body ; since it is a false way of reasoning to conclude discord from diversity , contrariety from variety : which having illustrated by an instance of the various senses in a natural body , without any contrariety flowing from that variety , he shews , page . that diversity of gifts doth not infer disagreement in sense , nor variety of offices contrariety in judgment concerning those offices . then having , from the concurrent testimonies of the holy scriptures , set forth the unity of god , he infers that the light , life and spirit of god is at unity with it self in all ; and what comes from the light , life or spirit in one , it is the same in truth and vnity to the rest , as if it rise in themselves . for this he appealed to the daily experience of friends in our meetings , where the living and sensible ones know , that what comes from the light , life or spirit of god in any friend that ministers , is felt , received , closed with and united to as truth , by those that in the same light , life and spirit wait , as well as if it had arose in themselves . this was the design of the author's words in that place , as is apparent to any that fairly reads them ; and the design was good . but the design of the adversaries was evil , in surmising another design without ground , that they might make an occasion for cavilling . for they are fain to confess , that there is no contrariety in the spirit of god , no contradiction in the spirit 's teaching , being all for one and the same end , the good of man , by the salvation of his soul. nay , they acknowledge , there is so much truth in what the author hath said , that when fairly stated , they are content it should be as a rule to measure the whole difference by . and yet they spend about a couple of pages in carping at it . they say , betwixt god's teaching by instruments , and teaching immediately by his spirit in our own hearts , there is this distinction or difference , that the first is but to prepare , the latter to perfect . whereas the scripture saith expresly , when christ ascended up on high , he gave gifts unto men , some , apostles ; and some , prophets ; and some , evangelists , and some , pastors and teachers ; for the perfecting of the saints , &c. eph. . , , . so that hence it appears that the teaching of god , through such instruments as he gives his heavenly gifts unto , for the work of the ministry , hath a further tendency and service , than but ( or only ) to prepare : for those gifts were given for the edifying ( that is , building up , or establishing ) of the body of christ , and for the perfecting of the saints . this shews , the adversaries , for all their high notions and fluttering pretences , are short of a right understanding , and to seek in the work of the ministry , being ignorant of the true and full end of divine ministerial gifts . so again they say , page . when the things of god do come from god's holy spirit immediately , they are then as the oracles of god. this shews they do not reckon them as the oracles of god , if they come from the light , life ▪ or spirit of god through instruments . but the apostle peter ( who knew as much as they , and is fitter to be believed than they ) saith , if any man speak , let him speak as the oracles of god , &c. pet. . . so that the apostle , it seems , understood no other , but that the things of god , when ministred as of the ability which god giveth , were as the oracles of god , though spoken by or through man. to make way yet for more wrangling , they reason after this manner ; either say they , all that do speak in our assemblies or meetings , speak from the light , life and spirit , or all do not , if all do so speak , prove it ; if all do not so speak , then you must give us a certain rule to know who do so speak and who do not . rep. at the end of their preface , they give an advertisement , that where the term you is found in the following discourse , ( namely in their book ) they intend the author ( viz. of the book they pretend to answer ) and those of his mind . and where the term we is also used ( in their book ) it may be understood in respect to those of the same mind with the author of that book of theirs . so that you and we are there set for characteristical notes , or distinguishing terms , between friends and them ; friends being intended and denoted by the word you , and themselves by the word we. now since your and our are but derivatives from you and we , each ought to follow its own primitive . and since by the term we , they would have themselves to be understood , it is but reason that by the term our assemblies or meetings , their own assemblies or meetings should be understood , not the assemblies or meetings of friends : especially , seeing they have meetings of their own , properly their own , set up themselves , in their own wills and choice , in a spirit of separation from the meetings of friends , and in opposition to them . now , if we take them in this sense , when they say as before , either all that do speak in our assemblies or meetings , speak from the light , life and spirit , or all do not ; i shall easily grant , what they say they take for granted , that all that speak in their assemblies or meetings , do not speak from the light , life and spirit of god , if any do . but if they mistook themselves here , and by our assemblies or meetings , intended the assemblies or meetings of friends , and so put the question , whether all that speak in the meetings of friends , do speak from the light , life and spirit of god , or not . i reply , no ▪ for many of the adversaries themselves ( who are gone into a wicked separation from friends , and instead of abideing in the light , life and spirit of god , are got into an ungodly spirit of wrangling and quarrelling , rayling and reviling , envy , bitterness and restless contention ) do notwithstanding thrust into friends meetings , and there take upon them to speak , though they ( or their party ) have openly denyed friends in print . this is such a work of darkness and horrible hypocrysie , as manifests that such speak not from the light , life or spirit of god. but whereas they say , you must give us a certain rule to know who do so speak , and who do not , or otherwise you must leave us to receive or refuse , according to the best of our understanding ; ( which they repeat over and over , biding us ) observe , either you must give us a rule as above , or you must leave us free , &c. i reply , friends have always directed and left them , and all others , to that which makes free indeed , the truth , iohn . . and their insinuating the contrary , is a foul slander , and a wicked design . i would to god they , who are run into enmity to and separation from friends , would leave us free , and not impose upon us their preaching and praying , which they have been often told friends cannot receive or own . and whereas they say , both here in page . and elsewhere , we take it for granted , that you can give no such rule . i reply , they mistake , taking that for granted which they ought not . that light , life , spirit , grace or truth , which friends have always directed them and all unto , is a rule . a certain rule , to know who speak from it , and who do not . and they that abide in it , and are attentive to it , do know who speak from it , and who do not ; who are acted by it , and who are not : and know accordingly what , and whom , to receive , and what , and whom , to refuse . for the true sheep know the true shepherd's voice , iohn . . and . which is more than words . but there is a difference between being left to this light , grace or spirit of god in our selves , to receive or refuse according to that ; and being left to our own understanding , to receive or refuse according to the best of that , as the adversaries would be left . for man's understanding , as it is a natural faculty , must be illuminated by this heavenly light and spirit of god , before it can receive , or know , the things of god , because they are spiritually discerned . cor. . . well therefore did the wise-man advise , trust in the lord with all thine heart , and lean not to thine own understanding , prov. . . in the close of their page , they say , we may safely conclude , where conviction and perswasion are disallowed , that government ceaseth to be true . rep. but where is that ? not amongst friends , i am sure . this they have suggested over and over ; but without proof , without colour . the contrary has been asserted and proved over and over , again and again , and that by undenyable evidences , from that very book they pretend to answer , as thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly , page . the people of god ought to be left to the guidings of the spirit of god in themselves , page . it is a great truth that all are to be left thereunto , ibid. and again , if thou dost not presently see that service in a thing , that the rest of thy brethren agree in , it is thy duty ( what to do ? not to conform without or against conviction or perswasion , but ) to wait upon god in silence and patience , out of all fleshly consultations , &c. page . these plain testimonies , one would think , were enough to stop the clamorous mouth of slanderous envy . they begin their th page with a passage , which they single out of the th page of the book they pretend to answer ; and they word it thus , they that walk in the light , have fellowship one with another , iohn . whence he saith , 't is easy to conclude . that those that go out of fellowship , go out of the light , &c. upon this they spend about four pages in meer cavilling . and to make the more way for their cavilling , they miscite the passage , leaving out a word of small sound , but of great force in the present case , because a strong emphasis lies upon it . for whereas the author's words were , they that go out of [ the ] fellowship , go out of the light ; the adversaries , omitting the word [ the ] report him to have said , they that go out of fellowship , go out of the light ; by that means , making themselves a liberty to extend this to any sort of fellowship , that they have a mind to stretch it to , which was spoken emphatically , and by way of excellency , of that divine and spiritual fellowship , which is attained only by walking in the light. nor was this a single slip , or oversight ; but seven or eight times over have they here repeated this passage in the same terms , and with the same omission : and have made advantage of it accordingly , to prevent the sense , abuse the author , and beguil the reader . for in their th page . they put themselves upon the inquiry , what must be understood by the word fellowship ; for , they say , it cannot stand of it self ( it seems they take it for a noun adjective ) and they have taken from it that , by which it might have both stood , and been understood . they pursue their inquiry thus ; therefore , say they , to make it intelligible in the best sense , we must joyn to it what he calls the church , and then ( add they ) that church must relate to people , and at last ( say they ) we judge , it must relate to those orders , rules and forms , that are set up by this church , &c. thus have they taken away what they pleased from the author's words , and added to them of their own , that they might the more foully pervert the sense and meaning of them . whereas the author's words , [ they that go out of the fellowship , go out of the light , ] had a direct and limitted relation to that fellowship which stands in the light , which they that walk in the light have one with another , in and by walking in the light. so that the true fellowship here treated of , is a pure , holy , spiritual fellowship , which god's people have and enjoy one with another ; and their fellowship one with another stands in that wherein their fellowship stands with god ; not in any ceremonial or shadowy thing , as the adversaries , with an evil mind , suggest . they say , page , we may see the cunning that is in daubing , as well as something of that ground of the false reasoning , that is among the children of men . their daubing , and their cunning is laid open in the foregoing . their false reasoning , and their folly will appear in what follows . they tell us , page , every saying or position hath only one other saying or position that stands against it ; if therefore ( say they ) what is brought as the antithesis , differ from the direct opposite sense , the work that follows , or what is builded upon it , cannot be true . rep. this is so opposite to sense , that it is hard to pick any sense out of it . antithesis is a position directly contrary to another position , which is the thesis to it ; and it must differ from the thesis , or direct opposite sense , which it is brought against , else it is not truly antithesis : yet they would have it , that if it do differ from the direct opposite sense , it cannot be true . they have got hold of a cramp-word ( as the saying is ) and seem very fond of it ; but handle it with so little skill , a shews they do not rightly understand it : for they confound thesis with antithesis , making the same words some times one , some times to'ther ; not considering that themselves at the same time say , opposites remain as fixt in their sense , as the east doth from the west . then sure they are not convertible . yet they make those words , [ they that go out of fellowship , go out of the light , ] one while a thesis or position ; another while an antithesis , which is quite contrary . again , they say , this position , that they that go out of fellowship , go out of the light , he brings as the true antithesis to this position of scripture , quoted john . or he doth not so bring it ; if he doth not bring it as true , he deceives or abuses his reader , but if he doth bring it as the true antithesis , he is mistaken . rep. what ground had they to dream that he brought it as an antithesis at all ? he no where calls it so : nay , he directly calls it a conclusion , ( his words are , whence it is easy to conclude , they that go out of the fellowship , go out of the light : ) and cannot they discern between a conclusion and an antithesis ? they had better then not have medled with either . is every conclusion an antithesis , do they think ? they say , he brings it as the true antithesis , or he doth not so bring it ; if he doth not bring it as true , he deceives or abuses his reader . here , to shew their cunning in daubing , they leave out the word antithesis in the latter clause of the sentence , and only say ; if he doth not bring it as true , he deceives or abuses his reader . but he doth bring it as true ( though not antithesis , but ) conclusion from the premises ; so that they deceive themselves and their readers , and abuse him . they grant , from the text in iohn , that the ground and cause of true fellowship , is a walking in the lig●t . and it is very evident , that it was this true fellowship , which walking in the light is the ground and cause of , that the author spake of , whom he said , they that go out of the fellowship , go out of the light , because he inferr'd it from having fellowship by walking in the light , asserted by the apostle , iohn . now therefore , after all their wrangling , and idle cavilling about it , i desire they will seriously consider , whether they that go out of this true fellowship , which stands in the light , which is attained only by walking in the light , or which ( as their own phrase is ) walking in the light is the ground and cause of , do not go out of the light in which the fellowship stands , when they go out of the fellowship which stands in the light. they say , the proof that the work is true , is the witness in a man 's own mind by the cleansing from all sin ; and they add , without this , fellowship is ineffectual . rep. i grant that cleansing , being an effet of walking in the light , is a good proof of such walking . but since cleansing is a gradual work : ( for as , nemo repentè fit turpissimus ; so nemo repente fir purgatissimus : as no man becomes most filthy all on a sudden ; so neither is it usual for any one to be made throughly clean in a moment : ) cleansing from all sin is the highest degree of cleansing . now though the further this work of cleansing is carried on , the more sweet and precious the fellowship is ; yet to assert ( as the adversaries here do ) that without cleansing from all sin , this fellowship is ineffectual , is an error . for while the work of cleansing is but in part wrought , and is carrying on from one degree to an other , this holy fellowship is of good effect to them , who by walking in the light , are brought into , and preserved in it . i find the author of the book i am replying to , doth not weigh his matter in the true ballance before he brings it forth ; but runs on in a dark way of natural reasoning ( wherein his greatest strength seems to ly ) which leads him to lay hold too suddenly of crude and indigested notions , which will not stand , when brought to the true tryal . but to manifest more directly to him and his party , their mistake in the present instance , i recommend to their consideration , whether they , among themselves , have , or pretend to have any fellowship one with another , or no. if they have ; whether all in that fellowship can in truth say , they are cleansed from all sin. if they cannot ; then whether ( according to their own position before laid down ) that fellowship of theirs is not ineffectual . this concerns all them that value that fellowship , or themselves for being in it , to consider . in their th and th pages , having spoken of the church 's going into the wilderness , and of her being led out of it again by christ , they say , as we believe there is to be no end of the increase of his government now begun , we are to consider there is some alteration in the work ; it then decreased , it must now increase , and if it must increase , we may will consider , as god is infinite and eternal , he hath still more wisdom , power and glory to reveal . rep. there is no doubt but he hath : and in his wisdom he hath revealed such things , as his wisdom saw needful and useful to his church and people , which by his glorious power he hath confirmed them in ; and which the adversaries , in their carnal wisdom , judging too mean and low for them to receive , have despised , reproached , rejected and opposed . but while they here admit , that god hath still more wisdom , power and glory to reveal , they seem to have forgotten how oft throughout their book , they have scornfully rejected things as new and novel , and bounded all to their beginning . again they say , there must be a looking forward , and not backward for the mind of christ. rep. why then would they limit us to their beginning , as in their th and th pages , as if nothing were to be received , but what is ( in their esteem ) essential to true religion , or which hath been from their beginning ? is not that looking backward , instead of forward ? besides , if there must be a looking forward , and not backward ( as they say ) for the mind of christ ; why then do they twit us with unscriptural orders , and peremptorily call for a plain scripture proof for this or that practice ? is not this looking backward , instead of forward ? for the scriptures , they know , were written many hundred years ago . thus their weakness and self contradiction appears . but this is not all . their position is unsound in it self . they say , there must be a looking forward , and not backward for the mind of christ. this negative part of their position is false and erronious , excluding the scriptures of truth to be looked in for the mind of christ. herein they err to one extream , as the world 's people do to the other . they are for looking backward , not forward , for the mind of christ ; backward to the scriptures , which they call such a compleat canon , as admits no addition , or further discovery of the mind of god ; not forward , as believing god hath so bound himself up to what is revealed in the holy scripture , that he will not reveal his mind any further . these , on the other hand , are for looking forward , not backward , for the mind of christ. the truth lies between these two extreams . there ought to be a looking both forward , and backward , for the minde of christ. not only forward , to every fresh and further manifestation , discovery or revelation of his minde : but also backward , to those revelations , discoveries or manifestations of the minde of christ , which we have already received from him in our selves , and which the church of christ in ages past received from him , through the holy spirit , and are recorded in the holy scriptures , which were written for our instruction . thus running on headily and in haste , the adversaries have shut out the use and service of the scriptures of truth , from being look'd into for the minde of christ. they say , we should not think by what we know , to measure what is to come ; and they add , we hereby limit the holy one as much as is in our power , &c. rep. they directed us before , at the end of their preface , to understand the term [ we ] of those that are of the same minde with the author of their book . now this which they here say ▪ of limitting the holy one , &c. they speak in the term [ we. ] so that this is applicable to themselves , by their own direction . i am sensible indeed , that what they here speak concerning themselves , is true ; and i am sorry for it : for hence has proceeded their hurt , and the loss that is come upon them . they have measured the lord 's appearances by the false metwand of their own conceited knowledge , and the things they so measured not answering their expectation by that measure , they have rejected , despised and vilified the things themselves , blasphemed the power which led friends into the practice of them , turn'd head against their brethren , disquieted and disturbed the church of christ , proclaimed in print open war , and set up their separate meetings , as ensigns and standards thereof . their th page contains a quotation out of the book they pretend to answer . it is too long to transcribe ( being almost a page ) consisting of many particulars , pickt out of the th and th pages of that book , but not fairly : for , besides other variations , there is this material one , that whereas the author 's own words are , if i will not comply with him that god hath made an eye , &c. they have cited it , if i will not comply with him that is made an eye , &c. leaving out god , that they might make room for an evil minde to furmise , that the eye there spoken of might be of man's making , not of god 's ; though the author had expresly said , him that god hath made an eye this shews ( as they elsewhere reflect , page th ) more cunning in daubing , than honesty in dealing . in their answer they say , 't is plain the author intended to gain a dependance upon what he calls the church . rep. 't is plain they herein abuse the author , and endeavour to mislead their reader . 't is plain the author had no intention , nor doth his discourse tend , to gain a dependence upon the church , or upon any thing else than what the church it self is built and depends upon , christ jesus , the head thereof . that which they carp at is a scripture-metaphor , borrowed from the apostle paul , cor. . and the author 's intention in using it was no other , than to reprove , and refute the folly of those , who from the variety of measures , diversity of gifts and offices in the spiritual body , would infer , and bring in a liberty and allowance for the members of that body to disagree among themselves , to contradict and oppose each other , in and about the self same matter and thing , relating to the family or church of god. that this was his intention , appears most plainly in his th page . now in order to convince such of the weakness , unreasonableness , and falseness of that plea , he used the comparison which the apostle had made , drawn from a natural body , wherein , notwithstanding there are divers members , and various offices to which they are adapted , yet is there no disagreement among them , no contrariety , contradiction , or opposition . so that the adversaries , in this cavil , do but in effect carp at the apostle , at the holy scripture , and at the spirit of truth by which it was written . but i come to particulars of their answer . having said , 't is plain his intention is to gain a dependance upon what he calls the church , they add , and that he makes infallible as she relates to men. rep. this is a notorious falsehood , not to be fastned on any thing in his book ; and that i suppose , they were sensible of : for they do not attempt to quote any passage of his in proof of it , but endeavour to prop up this , by setting another falsehood to it , which is this ; that she must relate to men is clear , the difference ( say they ) being betwixt men and men. this is false as well as the former . the difference is not betwixt men and men ; if it were , it would relate to the things of men , such things as are common to men as men. but the difference is between spirit and spirit , and relates to the things of the church , not of the world ; of christians , not of men as men. but the adversaries , in their carnal minds , distinguish not between men and christians . next they say , he makes no provision in all his book to the contrary , by allowing conviction to precede conformity . rep. doubtless the adversaries are come to an high degree of obstinate hardness , that without remorse they can so often repeat so foul a falsehood as this . how many places have i already cited out of that book ( in which , they say , he makes no provision at all for this ) which plainly convict them of falsehood and slander therein ! when he said , page . thou art not to conform to a thing ignorantly ; was here no provision at all made for conviction to precede conformity ! if they were not to conform ignorantly , then surely they were to know , be perswaded , convinced , before they conformed . so that here was a good provision made , that conviction should precede conformity . when , to the question , [ ought i not to be left to the grace and spirit of god in my own heart , ] he answered , yea , that is of all things most desireable , &c. page . and . when he said , page . the people of god ought to be left to the guidings of the spirit of god in themselves ; and again , it is a great truth that all are to be thereunto left ; was here no provision at all for conviction to precede conformity ! what better provision could have been made for allowing conviction to precede conformity , than to declare that god 's people ought to be left to the guidings of god 's spirit in themselves ? is it not from the spirit of god in ones self , that conviction or perswasion of duty is to be accepted and received ? will the spirit of god lead them that ●e left to the guidings of it , to conformity before conviction ? no sure . the leaving therefore of god 's people to the guidings of god 's spirit in themselves , was the best provision could have been made for conviction to precede conformity . when , to the question , [ if i do not presently see that service in a thing , that the rest of my brethren agree in , in this case what is my duty ? ] he answered , it is thy duty to wait upon god in silence and patience , out of all fleshly consultation , and as thou abidest in the simplicity of truth , thou wilt receive an understanding with the rest of thy brethren about the thing doubted ; was there no provision at all here , for allowing conviction to precede conformity ! did he say , thou must conform before or without coviction ? whether thou seest the service , or no ? whether thou hast received an understanding about it , or no ? nay , did he not positively exclude that , and obviate this cavil , by saying directly , it is thy duty to waite upon god , &c. and what was such an one to wait upon god for ? to be lead into conformity before conviction ? no sure ; but to receive conviction from god : therefore he there added , and as thou abidest in the simplicity of truth , thou wilt receive an vnderstanding , &c. nay , so far was he from favouring ( much more from pressing ) conformity before conviction , that , having declared , as before , the duty of such an unconvinced , doubting one ; he adds also , what is the duty of the brethren towards such an one , thus , and it is their duty , whilst thou behavest thy self in meekness and humility , to bear with thee , and carry themselves tenderly and lovingly towards thee . can any be so impudent as yet to say , that he makes no provision in all his book to the contrary , by allowing conviction to precede conformity ! nay , the adversaries themselves say of him , page . that they believe he desires all should be guided by god's spirit . doth this look like leading into blind obedience , like drawing to conformity before conviction , like drawing to a dependence upon men , as they often suggest against him ! how abominably wicked are they herein ! in their page , they quarrel at some particular passages in the large quotation they gave before , relating to the metaphor of a natural body . as first , they say , the author seems to make the church immediately joyned to christ for her head , as the natural body 〈◊〉 joyned to the natural head. rep. doth this offend them ? it is then because they do not know the true church , nor her strict conjunction with or to her head. do they indeed think the true church is not immediately joyned to christ for her head ! were they of that church , they would think otherwise . it concerns them to consider , whether they are not such as the apostle complained of , col. . . for not holding the head , from which all the body , by joynts and bands having nourishment ministred , and knit together , increaseth with the increase of god. the same apostle exhorting the ephesians not to be tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine , by the slight of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby they ly in wait to deceive , ephes. . . adds , but speaking the truth in love , may grow up into him in all things , which is the head , even christ : from whom the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplyeth , according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of it self in love . and baeza , on these words , thus noteth ; thereof it followeth , saith he , that neither this body can live without christ , neither can any man grow up spiritually , that separateth himself from the other members . a fit note , and worthy to be noted by all those , who have separated themselves from that church , which yet they acknowledge to be true . they cavil yet further at the parts of the metaphor taken from a natural body , which shews they do not well understand the nature of a metaphor , comparison , or sinicle , which ( as the saying is ) runs not on all four , nor agrees in every particular ; but it is enough if it square in these parts , wherein the comparison lies . when christ compared his coming ) called by the apostles , the coming of the day of the lord , thes. . . and pet. . . ) to the coming of a theif , matth. . , . it was not with respect to the end or intention of the coming of each : ( for the thief cometh not but to steal , kill and destroy , iohn . . whereas christ came to give life , and to save . ) but it was with respect to the unexpected suddenness of the coming of each . the comparing the members of christ 's body to the members of a natural body , was not to tie the spiritual members to a strict and exact proportion and agreement , in every respect , to the members of a natural body , in all and singular the offices , properties , qualifications and faculties of the members of a natural bedy : but to shew , that as all the members of a natural body , being influenced , animated and acted by one and the same vital spirit , do harmoniously agree , and not thwart one another , in their various offices and actions : so the members of the true spiritual body , being all influenced , animated , acted , moved , led and guided by the one spirit of life and truth , do harmoniously agree , and sweetly consent together , in the performing of their several offices , according to the divers gifts , and various measures that they have received thereof . which cuts off , and wholly excludes that pernicious plea , which the dividing enemy hath furnished some with , for maintaining disagreement , discord , and opposite senses , judgments and practices , amongst the members of the same body , in and about the same religious performances . had the adversaries rightly considered this , they would not perhaps have thought there had been any inconsistency between the church of christ seeing , hearing , speaking with the same eye , ear , mouth ; and particular members being made by god an eye , ear , or mouth , at such seasons , or such occasions , and for such services , as he sees meet to use them in : for there is no inconsistency in this at all ; though they labour to make one , by a carnal way of reasoning , not suitable to the nature of spiritual senses . for though they say , in the first of these cases , they all seem to hear for themselves ; in the latter , some hear immediately , and some secondarily ; and that the first hear not only for themselves , but for others also , the second only for themselves by others : they err , not knowing the mystery of true spiritual hearing . for in the true church all ( whose ear the lord hath truly opened , and who attentively listen to his voice , hear for themselves , and that immediately , by the spiritual ear which god hath opened in them , at the same time that , with the outward ear , they hear the testimony of truth sounded forth , by the spirit of truth , through any instrument unto them . but , oh! the darkness that comes over those , who give scope and liberty to their minds to rove , and range in the way of carnal reasoning , about the things of god , which are , and only can be , spiritually discerned , by them that wait in the light. let us know , say the adversaries here , what member is this eye that we must see by , and what member is this ear that we must hear by , and what member is this mouth that we must speak by , in those things that relate to christ and his church , that so we may not be imposed upon by such as may pretend to be that eye , that ear and mouth , and are not . rep. this looks too like that impertinent curiosity , which drew from the apostle the rebuke of [ thou fool ] to him that asked , how are the dead raised up ? and with what bodies do they come ? cor. . , . the adversaries here bewray an imagination , that some particular members are determinately appointed to the constant , and continual performance , and execution of those offices of eye , ear , mouth , &c. to and for the body . and they seem to expect we should describe those persons to them by name , or other outward character . but how carnally minded must they be , that could conceive so strange an imagination ! they bid us let them know that , which none but god knows . for as no member can be rightly a mouth to the rest , but that which god makes so , by speaking through it to the rest , and that only at such times as it is so made use of by god : so none but god knows what member he will make use of , as a mouth to speak his mind by . but as all the members wait upon god , in their own respective measures of the heavenly gift in themselves , all are in their proper places , ready to be ordered and disposed of by the lord to whatsoever office in , or service for the body , he shall see meet to use them in . and every one thus truly waiting , in that which gives a true discerning , none such can be imposed upon by any false pretender . hence it is , that when any of these adversaries ( that are gone out of the unity , into a separation inwardly in spirit , and outwardly in meetings also , from friends ) thrust into our meetings , and take upon them to be a mouth , either from god to the assembly , by preaching , or from the assembly to god , by prayer ; they are savoured , felt , feen and known to be but false pretenders ; and as such rejected and denied by friends . but is it not strange blindness in them , to cavil at the expression of a member being made a mouth by god to the rest of the members ; when it is plain matter of fact , that divers of themselves pretend to that office , of being a mouth to or from the assembly , and on that pretence obtrude and impose their preaching and praying on friends ! does not this shew they are devoted to cavilling ? they say , in their page , will he leave us to depend , and not certainly tell us what on ? rep. by this they would insinuate , that the author of the book they pretend to answer , would have some of the members depend upon others . yet they immediately add , he doth not intend that sure . but if they really believe he doth not intend that , why would they suggest that he doth so intend , by saying , will he have us to depend , and not certainly tell us what on ? when it is certain he had certainly and expresly told , what all god's people ought to depend on , namely , the guidings of the spirit of god in themselves , page . and indeed , so far are friends from having , or referring any to , a dependence on any instrument , through which god at any time spake ; that they have always recommended all to the grace , and spirit of god in themselves , ( which says amen to the testimony that proceeds from the same grace and spirit in another ) that their dependence might be upon god in that ! and had the adversaries look'd with an indifferent eye , they might have observed what the author , of the book they are so angry at , hath written in the th and th pages thereof , viz. that the same lowly frame of mind that receives and answers the mind of the spirit of the lord in a man's self , will receive and have unity with the mind of the same spirit through another , and the reason is plain ; because the same self evidencing power and virtue that ariseth from the measure of the spirit of truth in one self , and that convinceth a man in his own heart , doth also attend the discovery of the mind of the same spirit , when delivered by another . they speak of the church that is perfectly redeemed , &c. but this , say they , is that church that is hid from the world. rep. by this they would make as if christ had two churches , one hid from the world , and another known to the world. but is the church ( or was it ever ) known to the world ? was not his church always hid from the world ? can the church of christ be seen but by a spiritual eye ? and hath the world that eye to see her with ? in their page , they say , why do you impose upon your brethren ? rep. the insinuation is false and malicious . friends impose not upon any . but what god hath manifested as his mind unto us , for the service and good of his church , that in his fear we practice our selves , and that we have recommended to others . when some have said , they saw not the service of it , such have been exhorted , and desired , to wait upon god in the measure of his light , grace and spirit manifested in themselves , that thereby they might come to a sight and ●ense thereof , and have unity with their brethren therein ; and in the mean time to be quiet , and not oppose those things , which their brethren were conscientiously concerned in , and which they themselves confessed that they had not a sight , whether the things so recommended , were of god or not . but instead of taking this good counsel , some factious spirits amongst them , set themselves to obstruct and hinder friends from proceeding , in the way which the lord had led them into ; working against friends , at first , in a more hidden manner , by sly insinuations and evil surmises secretly conveyed from house to house , among such as were weak of vnderstanding , or but young in the convincement and knowledge of truth , or under some discontent of mind , or such as wanted a broader way than truth allows . these they smoothly and craftily insinuated themselves into , entertained them with stories and false reports against this , that and the other friend , labouring to perswade them that such sought to set up a lordly dominion over them to make themselves rulers of the church , and bring others in subjection under them : than which , nothing could be more false . but after that those wicked agents had , by these and such like ungodly courses , beguiled many , and formed to themselves ( as they thought ) a sufficient party in divers parts of the nation ; they then brake forth into open opposition , gain-saying , withstanding and disturbing friends in the practice of those things , which friends were convinced of , and satisfied the lord had led them into , and owned them in ; calling them ( in scorn and derision ) by the reproachful and despightful terms of canons , constitutions , decrees , mens-inventions , human traditions , popish-prescriptions , edicts , orders , bulls , &c. and when friends , seeing them thus run out from truth , and bandying together against truth , could no longer receive their testimonies in our publick meetings , as preachers amongst us , but were necessitated to shew some open dislike thereof ; then did the adversaries impose their preaching and praying upon friends , requiring friends to bow in conformity to their prayers , and that not only before and without , but even against and contrary to conviction and perswasion , ( for friends gave them to understand that they were convinced and satisfied in their judgments and consciences , that they , being gone from the spirit of truth and gospel of peace , ought not to be owned as ministers thereof . ) nay , to that height did the adversaries proceed , in obtruding their ministry upon friends , that ( in some places , where they had gotten strength , by numbers , sufficient to carry on their evil designs , ) they imposed conformity to their own ministry , under an outward penalty , and that no less than a being excluded from , debarred and deprived of the use of their publick meeting-places , in which the friends , so deprived , had , and have , a true right and legal property . nor did they only threaten this , but were as bad as their words , and did actually shut and keep the friends out , and refuse them entrance into their own meeting-places , unless they would first promise to conform . this was imposition with a witness : and reding is a witness of this . the cavils they make in their . and . pages , on occasion of the differences mentioned , rom. . about observation of meats and days , are very trivial . they do not prove that the instances of abstaining from meats , and observing days , are parallels to those parts of church-discipline , which they fight so much against . they confess indeed , that the instance of meats , rom. . is an instance of weakness ; but they urge , that the apostle's advice was , that those weak ones , notwithstanding their weakness , should be received . rep. we agree with the apostle's advice , and have testified our consent thereto by our practice : for so long as the adversaries kept within the bounds of weakness only , alleadging want of sight , their weakness was born with , and they were received by friends , in hopes that , if they waited humbly and honestly upon the lord , he would open their understandings , and give them a sight , and satisfaction concerning the things they then doubted about . but when , not content with this bearing and forbearing , they grew heady and quarrelsome , and sought , by running into jangling disputations , to stagger others , and spread the leaven of their own doubts , that by making others as doubtful as themselves , they might raise a party , to carry on strife and contention by ; they then put themselves out of the protection of the apostle's advise . for as he advised , to receive him that is weak in the faith ; so he also cautioned not to receive him to doubtful disputations . he was to be received , if he would be quiet , and his weakness to be born with ; but not if he would be alwayes wrangling , and raising dissentions in the church . so far as the cases will admit comparison , the adversaries representative was that weak one , who could not eat what his brethren could . he , through weakness , could not eat : they , through weakness ( of sight ) could not see what their brethren saw , could not act as their brethren did ; at least pretended so . now , as the apostle gave a cautionary let not , to him that was strong ; let not him that eateth dispise him that eateth not , rom. . . ( which friends observed towards the adversaries , not despising nor rejecting them for their apparent weakness , but bearing with them , and carrying themselves tenderly towards them : so he gave another cautionary let not , to him that was weak ( by whom , as i noted , the adversaries are here represented ) let not him that eateth not , judge him that eateth . had the adversaries observed this caution 〈◊〉 the apostle , and not judged their brethren in and for those things , which their brethren saw to be their duty , and were satisfied and conscientiously concerned in ( and which themselves acknowledged they had not a clear sight of ) the difference in probability had not come to what it now is . but the adversaries forgeting the apostles counsel , fell to judge their brethren , and that in the most provoking and reflecting manner , under the names of apostates , innovators , idolaters , setters up of lordly dominion , vsurpers of authority over conscience , introducers of popery , &c. and that in print ; and never gave over , till they run themselves by open war , into that open separation , in which they now stand . in their th page , they fall again upon their old odd notion of making circumstantial and shadowy to signifie the same thing . rep. herein they err , for want of considering the proper nature of each . every shadow is a representation of some particular substance , which it is a shadow of . but every circumstance is not representative . there are circumstances of time , place , gesture , &c. belonging to every action : yet is not every such circumstance a representation of some particular substance . therefore every circumstance is not a shadow . in meeting together to worship god , there must be a time to meet at , a place to meet in . these are circumstantial to the worship for which the meeting is , but they are not shadows . if the adversaries think they are , pray let them assign the particular substances of which they are shadows , and which , as shadows , they represent . but for ought i see , they make all things to be shadows , but the spirit of god. for they say , they must be substance or shadow ; and they admit nothing to be substance , but that which leads into all truth ; and they add ▪ the substance is god's holy spirit , that only and alone guides into all truth . so that , after their shadowy way of reasoning , the gospel dispensation should be as shadowy as the legal was , or else there must be no external appearance of worship under the gospel . and yet they acknowledge , there should be no shadows in christ's government . but , if there should be no shadows in christ's government , and all external acts of worship ( according to their notion ) are but shadowy ; then there must be no external appearance , or acts of worship under christ's government . and what then would this shadowy , shady , dark reasoning of theirs bring things to ! i wish the more single-hearted of their beguiled proselites would well observe this , and consider what shadows of christians they have made , or would make them . in like manner , they blunder about the circumstantial and essential , puzzling themselves , and their reader , to no purpose , for want of applying the words circumstantial and essential to their respective and proper relatives for they must relate to something that which is but circumstantial to one thing , may be essential to another . outward motion , or motion of the outward members , is circumstantial to man ; not essential to his being : for a man may be a man without outward motion . but this outward motion , though it be not essential to man's being , yet it is essential to his walking , talking , eating , &c. for walking , talking , eating , cannot be without some outward motion of the outward members . as it is thus in natural , so in religious matters . outward performances are but circumstantial , not essential to religion , simply considered as in it self , and strictly taken in the abstract . but those very performances , which are not essential to religion it self in that strict fense , may be essential to the outward profession and external exercise of religion . and indeed , no outward profession of religion can be made , no external exercise of religion performed , without the circumstance of some outward act or medium . which shews that outward performances , outward acts or mediums are essential to the being of outward profession , or exercise of relion , though not to religion it self , in that strict and abstractive sense before mentioned . i write this ( not with respect to any particular medium , act , or performance , but ) in a general way , with respect to every outward performance , that relates to the right exercise of true religion ; and to check the too confident conclusion , which the adversaries over hastily draw th●● whatsoever is not essential to religion ( according to their undistinguished sense of essentials ) is , without more ado , a meer-shadow . the author of the book they pretend to answer , in his th page thereof , having shew'd that the plea which the adversaries make , viz. [ i must mind the spirit of god in my self ] though true in it self , yet ought not to be so applied , as to disregard the preaching or writings of christ's enlightned servants , because by them applied properly to the preaching or writing of false prophets and seducers , concluded thus , i say the doctrine is true , but not exclusively of all external counsel or direction ; therefore false in application , where men are allowed to have had the fear of god , and the mind of his spirit , and are not proved to have acted in their own wills and wisdom , or without the guidance of the spirit of god , about the things of his church and kingdom . here the adversaries open wide , and a grevious out cry they make , p. ● . &c. two main exceptions they take against this . one at the words [ have had the fear of god ] and the other at the words [ are not proved to have acted , &c. ] against the first , they alledge that such as may have had the fear of god , may now be without it . and , to give a flurt at the author , they add , as well as himself , who used to have good arguments , but now wants them . against the second , they urge , that since every fact must be committed before proved , they may have acted in their own will , and not yet fully proved . now , that this is a meer empty cavil , and carping at words only , will appear by the author 's own words , in the place fore-cited , where he expresly calls the persons he spake of , faithful brethren , and christ's enlightned servants . so that it is evident , he used that other way of speech afterwards upon the adversaries , concession , and to bind them the faster , who , how meanly soever they thought of friends then , allowed them to have had the fear of god , and the mind of his spirit , &c. and had not proved them to have acted in their own wills , how much soever they slighted them . and it appears the adversaries understood this to be so worded upon their concession : for they say , p. . if we have allowed any to have had the fear of god , and mind of his spirit in things offered to us , if that allowance was true ( observe ) it was because we had a divine sense , relish and taste of it in our own hearts . rep. if that allowance was true ! it seems then they cannot tell , they have no assurance , whether that allowance was true , or no. how know they then whether the sense , relish , and taste of it , which they say they had in their hearts , was divine , or no ? for since they say that allowance was because they had a divine sense of it , &c. if the allowance was not true , the sense , which was the cause of that allowance , will not appear to have been divine . they add , and are we to go any further for a proof , that such are wrong , than when the same evidence comes not along with them ? rep. yes sure , they especially , who have so little certainty whether the allowance they gave before was true ; whether the sense in their own hearts , on which that allowance was grounded , was divine , had need go further for a proof that others are wrong , than their own apprehension that the same evidence comes not along with them . for how know they , but the same evidence may come along with them , whom they judge wrong , though it cannot get entrance into their hearts , which are prepossessed with ill will , prejudice and envy ? was it not so with some of old , who received , owned , embraced and allowed the apostle paul as right , and yet afterward turned against him as wrong ? where was the fault ? did not the same evidence come along with the apostle , and attend his ministry , as before ? or was there no room in their prejudiced mind for the evidence to enter ? should not they have gone further then , for a proof that he was wrong , than their sense that the same evidence came not along with him ? but they say , can any indifferent man think that all this smoke can be without fire ? what , one part all right , and t'other all wrong ; let them think so that can , we cannot . rep. no , no : all this smoke is not without fire ; and that they know full well : for they kindled the fire . but much of this smoke is the smoke of their torment , who have no rest day nor night ; but are fretting and fuming , making a pother and smother , and sending forth one pamphlet after another , stuft with falsehoods and reproaches , to keep the fire burning , and the smoke ascending , that if possibly they may darken the sight of some or other , and by that means draw them to their party . their uneasiness is apparent . their separation has not answered their expectation . they thought to have drove all before them , and with one sweep of their leader's tail , to have drawn , at least , the third part of the stars from heaven . but the lord hath disappointed them , blessed be his holy name . so that though here and there a wandring star hath fallen in with them ; yet the stars of the morning sing together , and the sons of god shout for joy , feeling their establishment in the heavenly power , and their root in him that lives for ever . from this disappointment of the adversaries expectations , and the unsuccesfulness of their separation to the end they proposed , i take it to be , that they still hover at the meetings of friends , to tinck off ( if they can ) unsensible and unwary ones , and gain some addition to their separate party . when they say , we cannot think one part all right , and t'other all wrong , they seem to acknowledge that themselves are not right . but if they are really sensible that they are not right , why do they not own wherein they are wrong , and condemn themselves therein , that ( repenting ) they may come to be right ? if they can't think the other part all wrong ; why did they so revile and reproach them , and that publickly in print , as apostates , innovators , idolaters , setters up of idols and images , introducers of popery , and the like ? and why did they divide and separate from them . their th page gives a quotation , pickt out of the th and th pages of the book they pretend to answer , and serves them to cavil at to the end of their pamphlet , which is half a dozen leaves , or more . but because their answer thereto is not so much argumentative as a declamatory harangue , and the matter thereof , for the most part , a repetition of what they have said , and i replied to , before ; interlarded thick with the old terms [ imposition , circumstantial , ceremonial , shadowy , bringing in new things , forcing new things , &c. ] i shall not think my self obliged to imitate their prolixity , by following them step by step , over each particular again ; but touching on some passages in the way , draw this discourse towards a conclusion . first , as to the quotaion they give , they give it not fairly : for connecting many particulars together , they take liberty to leave out what they please . they begin it thus ; he saith , the enemy is at work to scatter the minds of friends , by those loose pleas , as leave me to my freedom , and to the grace of god in my self , &c. rep. here they leave out the first part of that plea , which the author there impleads , and which proves the loose mind of them that so make it . for the author's words lie , thus , the enemy is at work to scatter the minds of friends , by that loose plea , what hast thou to do with me ? leave me , &c. this shews that that end of making this plea , which the author there taxes as loose , was to unbody , to disjoynt , dismember , dissociate , disunite friends , so as that one should have nothing to do with another , even in those things wherein the testimony of truth , common to all that profess truth lies , as will appear by the following lines . they go on with their quotation thus , the plain consequence is to go from autient principles and practices , as there set down . this they say , he saith , and they set this down in manner and character with the rest of the quotation , just as if he had said it indeed ; whereas his own words are thus , — this proposition and expression ( namely , what hast thou to do with me , &c. ) as now understood and alleadged , is a deviation from , and a perversion of the antient principle of truth ; for this is the plain consequence of this plea , if any one ( especially if they are but lately convinced ) shall say , i see no evil in paying tithes to the hireling-priest , &c. i see no evil in marrying by the priest , &c. i see no evil in declining a publick testimony in suffering times , or hiding in times of persecution , &c. i see no evil in worshipping and respecting the persons of men , &c. i see no evil in keeping my shop shut upon the world's holy-days and mass-days , as they call them , &c. all this ( and more ) they omitted . when as these are instances of the looseness of the plea ; and which the adver , saries knew to be too true to be denied , and therefore chose rather to conceal , than revive by bringing them forth . nay , the author there shewed the consequence of this plea extended further , that he who should plead it in the cases before instanced , might go on to say to friends , since your testimony is against imposition , and for leaving every one to the measure of the grace which god hath given him , not only , no man hath power to reprove or judge me , but i may be as good a friend as any of you , according to my measure . this also they left out . and then , having pieced up the rest of the quotation as they pleased , they give no direct answer to it . they neither grant that the things there instanced are evil , as paying ththes , marrying by the priest , hiding in times of persecution , &c. ( lest perhaps they should stumble those of their party who expect that liberty . ) nor do they deny that those , and such like , things have been , or may be , defended , by some under that plea , what hast thou to do with me ? leave me to my freedom , &c. but instead of this , they begin their long answer thus , the ground of this great noise and clamour , was not agoing from antient principles or practices , but your bringing in new things , &c. rep. they say not right . the ground of this great noise and clamour was , their going from the antient fundamental principle of all true principles and practices , the light. they went from the light of christ in themselves , and so became darkned : then complained they wanted sight , they could not see the service proposed in the things recommended . but as little sight as they had , they could see to oppose and obstruct their brethren , and not suffer them quietly to proceed in that , which they saw and were satisfied was their duty . they could see to wrangle , jangle , cavil , contend and disturb their brethren with ungodly speeches , and very unruly and turbulent behaviour , whereby they raised a great noise and clamour . they say , they ought to be left to the grace of god in this matter . rep. to the grace of god they were left in this , and every matter . but their ungodly speeches , and unchristian carriage , shewed , though they were left to the grace of god , they were not led by it . they say in page . if nothing that is simply evil or immoral can be charged upon your brethren , will you to make way for lordship and dominion over your brethren , joyn with the prophane and professors against them and truth . rep. no : but the adversaries , by their own practice , confirming the charge of professors and profane against the light , have thereby joyned with both against friends and truth . and their saying here , if nothing that is simply evil or immorral can be charged upon your brethren , &c. shews how easy and willing they are to admit this plea [ of being left to their freedom , &c. ] for a defence or cover for those , or the like evils before instanced , as paying the priest tithes , marrying by a priest , &c. which though not such things as in the eye of the world are accounted simply evil or immoral , are in the eye of truth certainly evil , and inconsistent with our principle . again , they say , if you deny that you impose , why are not you quiet ? rep. friends are quiet . but the adversaries are not , will not be quiet ; but in a restless , tossed , turbulent mind and spirit , are continually devising deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land. they could not be quiet till they were separated ; they will not be quiet now they are separated : but ever and anon some or other of them come to friends meetings , to disquiet friends there . and not satisfied with that neither , they scatter abroad their dirty books , stuft with evil surmises , sly insinuations , envious reflections , and foul falsehoods ; like those of old , whom the prophet compared to the troubled sea , when it cannot rest , whose waters cast up mire and dirt , isa. . . to whom there is no peace , ver . . therefore 't is no wonder they are not quiet , but as raging waves of the sea , are ever and anon foaming out their own shame , like those whom iude complained of , vers . . nay , so averse are they to quietness , that rather than want pretence for strife , they have pickt up a book that was written some nine or ten years ago , to make an occasion for a new qarrel , or to revive the old. they say , page , you must bring those things in , about which the difference is , either as terms of communion , or not . ( it seems , as often as they have charged us with bringing those things in as terms of communion , they do not yet know whether we have done so , or not . ) if , say they , you did not bring them in as terms of communion , then why do you criminate your brethren as evil doers , whilst you have nothing against them , but refusing compliance with your opinions . rep. not to enumerate all we have against them , ( who , in a subdolous way , still call themselves our brethren , though they are gone from the true brotherhood , that under that name they might do us the greater mischief , ) we have more against them , than their refusing compliance with what they scornfully call our opinions ; namely , the troubles and disturbances they have raised in the church , by their unruly , violent and turbulent oppositions ; the dissention and divisions they have caused thereby ; the rent and breach they have made ; the open war they have begun , and carried on ; the separation they have run into ; the wicked , envious books they have printed , to expose them they hipocritically call their brethren , and , together with them ; the truth they profess , to the scorn contempt and rage of the wicked ; in all which they are evil-doers . and so they also are in suggesting , that friends brought in those things , about which ( they say ) the difference is , as terms of communion . for that is false . we brought not in any things as terms of communion . the holy god , who is the author of our communion with himself , and with one another , hath appointed and fixed the terms of this communion , viz. walking in the light , as he is in the light , iohn . . but i would gladly see what the adversaries will assign for the terms of their communion : for where i have had any opportunity of observing them , or understanding their ways , i could never yet find or learn , that they excluded any from communion with them , who would go to their separate meetings , and rail against friends . sure i am , whoever shall observe , with an indifferent eye , what they lick up , and whom they give the hand of fellowship to , will find no cause to suppose the terms of their communion to be , walking in the light. they say , we are sure it is more according to truth , for you to omit the doing of what you may believe is good in this sense , than for others to receive what they believe is wrong . and this they speak , in order ( as they pretend ) to discontinue the difference . rep. they state not the case fairly on either hand : for what they would have us omit , they call only what we may believe is good ; whereas they are not ignorant , that we have declared we believe those things to be , not only good , but required by god of us as our duty . on the other hand , when they speak of others not receiving them , they call it what they believe is wrong ; whereas they have not adventured to charge those things with being positively wrong , but have alleadged , they did not see the service of them ; or , as some of their party have elsewhere stated it , they had great cause to be jealous , several things proposed were not from heaven , but of man : for in their birth into the church , they seemed not to bear the heavenly image . there is some ods , surely , between belief and iealousy , between believing a thing to be wrong , and having a jealousy that it was not from heaven ; but of man ; especially when that jealousy hath no greater ground than a seeming not to bear the havenly image . thus they craftily extenuate on the one hand , and aggravate on the other . but when each comes to be rightly stated , and set on its true bottom , it will appear to be no more according to truth , for friends to omit , the doing of that which they believe to be ( not only good , but ) their required duty , than for the adversaries to receive what they did not see the service of , but were jealous was of man , because it seemed not to bear the heavenly image . however , sure i am , it had been more according to truth , for the adversaries to have been quiet , and not run headily against what ; through want of sight and true sense , they were jealous of ; than either for them to have made the opposition , disturbance , division and separation they have made . or for friends to have omitted the doing that good , which they believed the lord required of them , and felt him by his spirit leading them into , and by his good presence owning them in . and indeed , a readier way could hardly be proposed , for obstructing all duty in any society , than to injoyn those , who believe it to be their duty , to omit the doing of it , because others are jealous of it . however , their here proposing that friends should omit the doing of what they believe is good , &c. as a way or means to discontinue the difference , shews that ( notwithstanding their loud clamours , and reiterated outcries against friends for imposition , imposition , imposition : ) it was not friends imposing upon them , that gave the occasion of the difference : but it was friends refusing to be imposed upon by them , to omit the doing of their believed duty , and to be driven , by their impetuous opposition , out of the practice of those things , which they believed were required of them . it was not enough to the adversaries , not to be imposed on themselves : but they must have us omit the doing of what we believed to be good , and our duty to do . was not this imposition on their parts , who so often cry out of being imposed upon ! what they say in their page , with allusion to the building of babel of old , and confusion of tongues that ensued therupon , needs no more , in this place , than their own application there of to themselves : for they deliver it in the first person plural [ we . ] was not we of one language ( say they ) whilst we truly travelled , &c. but when we found shinar a plain , and took up our dwelling there in the likeness of truth , then did not we , as others before us , begin to build , &c. now this they appropriate to themselves by the advertisement they have given at the end of their preface to the reader , where , after they have said , where the term you is found in the following discourse , we intend the author and those of his mind ; they add , and as the term we is also used , it may be understood in respect to those of the same mind with the author of this ( that is their ) book . let them take it therefore to themselves , to whom ( if to any ) it of right belongs . for they have been long hunting for a plain ( a place of more room , scope , and liberty ; finding truth 's way too strait and narrow for them ) and at length have found one , where they have taken up their dwelling , in but the likeness of truth , if in that . they have built up a separation , which they designed for a lofty tower , to preserve them from what they were in no danger of , in position from those they call their brethren . how they have sped in their undertaking , may in some measure be gathered by this , that some of their fellow-builders in that work , have since submitted to the ministry of the parish-priests ( to go no further . ) so that , as those babel builders of old met with that they shunn'd , viz. to be scattered abroad , &c. gen. . , . so these , to avoid an imagined danger , of imposition from their brethren , have betook themselves to the parish priests , where imposition is avowed . how far they are divided in language , while some are mumbling their mattins in the old mass-houses , i leave themselves to consider . but that they do agree , and are one in spirit ( as well such of them as are already gone off to the priest , as such as are not yet , ) to write against the innocent , to reproach , revile , raile at , slander , and wickedly bely friends , a late scurrilous book of francis bugg's , and another of iohn pennyman's , compared with others written by other of the adversaries , plainly shew . which books came out so near in time with that i am now replying to , as if there had been an intelligence held , and correspondence carried on , between the respective authors . they say , page , for you to call such pleas as those , leave me to the grace of god , and to the spirit of truth , loose pleas , &c. we look upon it as of dangerous consequence ; what though some may abuse them , will you take them away , and with them freedom of speech ? rep. we do not call those pleas loo●e , with respect to the pleas themselves ( which we acknowledge are sound and good : ) but with respect to the spirit by which , and the end to which , those pleas have been pleaded by the adversaries ; which was by a loose spirit , in order to let up looseness without controul . therefore we take not away the pleas ; but the abuse of them . nor do we take away freedom of speech , but in truth 's authority reprove that exorbitant liberty of rayling at , reviling and reproaching friends , and exposing truth to the worlds contempt and scorn , under pretence of freedom of speech . in page , they ask , why may not you be cautioned to beware of formality ? rep. we are often cautioned so ; as they that frequent our meetings know . and when that caution is given in the love of god , it is in the same love received . but when , under pretence of cautioning against formality , some ( not distinguishing between formality and form ) endeavour to overturn , subvert and take away all form and order from the church of christ , we cannot receive , but reject , such cautions and cautioners , as knowing that they come not from , nor serve . the god of order ; but that spirit which would bring all into disorder and confusion . in page , they say , pray let us know why truth 's testimonies may not be allowed and pass current , where the life and conversation is suitable . rep. truths testimonies are allowed , and do pass currant among truth 's followers . but the adversaries should have explained what they mean by truth 's testimonies . for those doctrinal principles , delivered of old by truth himself , and afterwards by his inspired followers , and recorded in the scriptures of truth , are truth 's testimonies , especially as they are taken up and used by the same spirit that gave them forth . and the testimonies that proceed from the spirit of truth , speaking through any of his servants in our meetings , or elsewhere , at this day , are the testimonies of truth also . and all these are allowed , and pass current amongst friends . but if the adversaries mean , by truth 's testimonies , their own testimonies , those testimonies that they bring , and thrust upon friends in our meetings , and ask why those testimonies may not be allowed and pass currant ; the answer is , because those testimonies are not truth 's testimonies , ( how like soever they may seem to be , ) neither come they in truth 's way . they proceed not from the spirit of truth , but from that spirit that fights against truth ; a spirit of dissention , division , disunion and separation from friends in truth . in page . they say , might not a little charity help all this , could you look upon such as trouble you to be conscientious . again , certainly you cannot think that all is wrong that are dissatisfied , &c. we would perswade you better , by assuring , that some are right by being sincere . rep. they who have known these troubles throughly , and have seen and observed their manner of troubling , and in what spirit they have done it , had need have more than a little charity , to make them look on such to be conscientious . was their publishing friends in print to be apostates , innovators , setters up of images , introducers of popery , idolaters , &c. an argument that they were conscientious ? was their exposing truth and friends , by their printed pamphlets , to the scorn , contempt and derision of the wicked , and rendring them ( as much as in them lay ) obnoxious to the government , a token of their being conscientious ? was their shutting friends out of their meting-houses , wherein they had a rightful interest and propriety , exposing antient and tender bodies , and some their nearest relations , to all extremities of weather , and that for divers years together ( as at reding , and elsewhere ) an effect of their being conscientious ? o barbaroas consciences ! o conscientious barbarism ! where shall a parallel to this be found , unless in that which christ foretold his disciples , iohn . . they shall put you out of the synagogues : yea , the time cometh , that whosoever killeth you will think that he doth god service . how far these conscientious troublers have answered this prophecy , let themselves and others consider . nay , have they not been worse than those forespoken of by christ ? for they were open enemies ; these feigned friends and false brethren . now whereas they say , certainly you can not think that all is wrong that are dissatisfied with those new things brought in , at least , as made terms of communion . i reply , we do not think all that are so dissatisfied equally wrong : for we are sensible those troublers have , by slanderous suggestions and false insinuations , beguiled and betrayed some ; whose recovery out of the snare , in which those troublers have taken them , we earnestly desire and travel for . but though we do not think all alike wrong ; yet we do think and know that all who think new things are brought in and made terms of cummunion with friends , are wrong in thinking so , whatever they are otherwise . and whereas they say , they would perswade us better , by assuring that some are right by being sincere . i reply ; if they are , they must not be any of those troublers , who notwithstanding they have separate meetings of their own , to which they have withdrawn , and chosen to meet apart ( as some of themselves have elsewhere exprest it ) do yet frequently thrust in at some of our meetings , and impose themselves upon friends for preachers , as if they did it on purpose to disturb , and to make trouble in our meetings . can any thing be more contrary to sincerity than this ! is not this an extream degree of hypocrisie ! let the troublers therefore give over their hypocrisie , and make it appear that they themselves are sincere to what they themselves have chosen , and set up , before they take upon them to give assurance of the sincerity of others . they bid us remember , they obtrude nothing upon you . rep. that 's false . those troublers obtrude themselves , their preaching , and their praying , upon friends ( which they know , ( having been often told ) friends cannot receive : ) than which , what worse they could obtrude , i know not . and where they have had strength by numbers , they have obtruded these upon friends , under the penalty of being deprived of their meeting house , if they would not conform to this imposition . and because friends could not conform thereunto , those troublers have actually shut friends out of their meeting-houses , and do yet continue to keep them out ; thereby depriving friends of their just right . therefore when any of those troublers shall again come to obtrude themselves upon friends in our meetings , let them remember this . again , they say , the lord often spared those that are wrong , for the sakes of those that are right . rep. we know he hath done so , and we desire he may do so still : but we leave that to him ; who best knows to whom , and how long , to extend that forbearance . but let not the adversaries abuse god's merciful forbearance , by continuing in the wrong , after that the lord hath made them sensible that they are wrong . they add , and 't is our doctrine , tares should be suffered to grow , rather than destroy wheat . rep. and 't is christ's doctrine , and his own exposition of his parable of the tares , that the field , in which they should be suffered to grow , is the world , mat. . . this is a good argument against persecution , or outward violence , for religion's sake . men ought not to be killed , destroyed , pluckt up , and rooted out of the world , only because they are tares , or a wrong seed of the enemies sowing . but i wish the adversaries would speak plainly , whether it be their doctrine that such tares , called by christ , the children of the wicked one , should be suffered to grow in the church , the garden of god , after they are discovered , discerned , plainly perceived , and certainly known ( as the tares in the parable at the first sight were ) to be tares . ah , how would this loose spirit , that is got up in some , turn spiritual zion , the inclosed garden of god , into a plowed-field ! however , it is to be hoped , their applying the parable of tares to themselves , may help to make some others understand them better , than hither to they have done . and their pleading for a toleration for tares to grow in the church ( for of the church , and its members , they here treat ; not of the world : ) may give some a further sight of their design for sheltring evil , and what they aim at in this plea , than ever they had before . after they have shewed the utmost of immoderation in managing the difference on their own part , they now at length begin to preach moderation to others . if , say they , this difference cannot be ended , — manage it with more moderation ( they might have added , than themselves have done ) and in that love of god , that it may be shewed the lord is at hand , to gather different apprehensions into a better temper . ( they might have added , than themselves have hitherto been in . ) rep. but why did they not think of this moderation , before they published their many scandalous and malicious books , to the defaming of truth and friends to the world , as much as in them lay ? why did they not preach this moderation to their own party at reding , and other places , to have gathered them into a better temper ( for a worse they could hardly have been in ) than to keep friends out of their meeting-houses , wherein they had a just and legal property , and expose them , for divers years together , to those hardships that heat and cold , rain and storms of weather bring ? they , who have done the greatest mischief by their immoderation that they can , begin now to recommend moderation to others . and they , who have done their utmost to dishonour the god of truth and peace , before the people , by publishing their wicked books , and setting up their separate meetings , do now take upon them to exhort others to moderation ; otherwise , say they , you will dishonour the god of truth and peace , before the people . is not this hyprocrisie in grain . they add , pag. . you must agree together quietly , or part friendly , or you are no preachers of righteousness , whatever your principles of truth may be . rep. to what end do they propose this now , so long after they have actually parted from us ! they have had their separate meetings these many years . and more than a year ago , some of them gave us to understand in print , that they had chosen to meet apart , and had withdrawn . but since they did neither agree quietly with us while together , nor did part friendly when they withdrew , does it not follow upon them , according to their own words , that they are no preachers of righteousness , whatever principles of truth they may hold ? they urge the example of abraham and lot , for parting by agreement . but they do not take notice , that that was only a parting of outward habitations , and that through necessity , because the place was not large enough to hold them . so that this was not a religious parting , muchless a parting through opposition of their spirits . yet this was in the vncircumcised state too : for circumcision was not instituted till after this . but they would do well to consider , that lot , who took his choice , and parted from abraham the friend of god , came to great loss , and suffered deeply thereby . for though , at first remove , he pitched his tent but towards sodom , gen. . . yet quickly after we find him settled in sodom , chap. . . and he had not long been there , before he was made a captive , and was glad to be rescued by him he had parted from . o that all , that are in danger of being beguiled , betrayed and led away by this dividing spirit and its agents , would consider these things in a spiritual application , and beware of separating from god's friends ; lest , by the pleasantness of the plains ( where liberty , freedom , room and scope may be had , to walk at will ) they be allured to pitch their tents towards mystical sodom , and by degrees drawn into it ! it follows in their book , but why cannot you agree together , whilst you own one and the same righteous principle ? rep. by this it seems as if owning a principle , were terms of their communion . to own the principle of truth , is one thing : to hold it , keep to it and obey it , is another . many do the one , that do not the other . many own the principle of truth in words , that never came into obedience to it : and some that have departed from obedience to the principle , have yet retained a verbal acknowledgement of it . and of them that have made profession of the truth , and afterwards turned their backs upon it , how few are there that do not own the principle ! they find fault with something or other in the society , to make themselves an out-let , that they may thereby slip out , and shake off the yoke of christ , which is as uneasie to the wrong , as easie to the right . but they commonly cry up the principle still . do not pennyman , crisp and bugg own in words the same righteous principle still ? let me turn the question then upon the adversaries , and ask them , why cannot you and those men agree together , whilst you and they own one and the same righteous principle ? nay , why cannot you and they agree in other things , as well as in contending against truth , and writing books against friends ? they add , you came out together , have you not done the greater , and cannot you do the less ? that 's strange . rep. that 's not so strange , as they would make it . israel of old came out of egypt together ( and with them a mixt multitude , exod. . . or , as in the margin , a great mixture . ) but all they that came out together , did not agree to travel on together . no , some grumbled and murmured at the hardships in the way . some emulated and repined at the superior gifts and graces of their brethren . some let in , and cherished evil surmises , and false iealousies concerning their brethren , as if some of their brethren took too much upon them , and lifted themselves up above the congregation , and sought a principality or lordly dominion over the rest , numb . . thus wrought the subtil enemy after divers manners , to divide , scatter and turn aside , some after one manner , some after another . some were swallowed up of the earth , and perished in their gain-saying . some were for making themselves a captain , ( in opposition to the captain god had made , ) and for returning again into egypt , the land of darkness out of which they came up together . others were consumed by the fire of the lord , which in hot indignation brake forth against them . and all the murmurers fell in the wilderness . now all these things ( as the apostle says ) hapned unto them for examples : and they are written for our admonition , cor. . . therefore murmur not ye , as some of them also murmured , and were destroyed of the destroyer , ver . . that which remains of the adversaries book is mostly a recapitulation , or contracted repetition of their foregoing reasonings , grounded upon a false hypothesis or supposition , that friends would impose new things , as matters of faith and terms of communion ; and would bring in blind obedience , by pressing conformity before conviction , and the like : which , i hope , the reader will find , to his satisfaction , refuted before . that therefore i may not swell this book with unnecessary repetitions , i will only recommend to the reader 's observation , what , after all their outcry against bringing in new things ( as they call them ) the adversaries themselves grant , in page . in these words ; any particular , or any assembly of the community , may offer what is new , if they sincerely believe it good and serviceable , without breach of vnity , or at least of communion ; but ( say they ) we cannot find to the bringing of new things in , as matters of faith , or terms of communion , that any assembly have any more power than a particular person . rep , what power an assembly may have more than a particular person , i list not here to dispute , because i would not ( like them ) pick occasion of debate and quarrelling . but since friends have not offered any of the things , the adversaries except against under the notion of new things , as matters of faith to others , or as terms of communion ; but have only offered such things as they sincerely believe are good and serviceable : let it suffice , that friends have herein done no more , than the adversaries here grant may be done , by any particular , or any assembly of the community , without breach of unity or communion . the breach therefore of unity and communion that now is betwixt them and friends , must lie , and doth , at the adversaries door , who ( by the heady , willful , violent and turbulent opposition they made , to obstruct and hinder friends from proceeding on , in the use and practice of those things , which the friends sincerely believed , and do yet believe , to be good and serviceable ) have run themselves into open war , and that in print , against friends , and into open division and separation from friends . so that it is they have broken themselves off from the unity , communion and society of friends , both inwardly in spirit , and outwardly also in religious exercises . the lord ( if it be his good pleasure ) give them yet a clear sight , and true sense of the great evil , and mischief they have done against god , his truth and people ; that in the sense thereof they may be truly humbled , and bowed down before him , and brought to such an honest and sensible acknowledgment thereof , as may evidence their sincere repentance , that , through judgment , they may find mercy , and obtain remission from him . the end . of the mistakes committed in printing , the most material that have been yet observed , are here noted to be corrected . others of less moment , as mis-spellings , mis-placing of letters , or stops , the reader is desired to amend in reading . page . line . read is in . pag. . line . r. reprove . l. . for immoral , r. evil p. . l. . for not yet , r. nor yet . p. . l. . after dispensation , make comm● . p. . l. . f. present , r. recent . p. . l. . r. iohn . . p. . l. . r. peter . p. . l. . f. of evil , r. for evil. p. . l. . f. prevent , r. pervert . libertas evangelica, or, a discourse of christian liberty being a farther pursuance of the argument of the design of christianity / by edward fowler ... fowler, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) libertas evangelica, or, a discourse of christian liberty being a farther pursuance of the argument of the design of christianity / by edward fowler ... fowler, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. : ill. printed by r. norton for richard royston and walter kettilby, london : . errata: p. [ ] advertisement: p. 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instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion libertas evangelica ierusalem w ch . is above , is free , which is the mother of us all gal. . . if the son therefore shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed . s. l●h● s. 〈◊〉 . libertas evangelica : or , a discourse of christian liberty . being a farther pursuance of the argument of the design of christianity . by edward fowler , rector of alhallows breadstreet , london . london , printed by r. norton , for richard royston , and walter kettilby , mdclxxx . to the right honourable anthony earl of kent , lord hastings , waishford and ruthyn . my lord , the relation i formerly had to your lordship , and to the excellent countess your mother , who , like king solomon's wise woman , hath builded her house , and by her extraordinary prudence , accompanied with the divine blessing , hath raised the now third earldom in this kingdom to its ancient greatness and splendour ; this double relation , i say , hath emboldened me to make a dedication of this discourse to your lordship : but there are also several other considerations that induce me thereunto : as particularly , i know your lordship to be a sober and virtuous person ; and that , as the grace of god did guard your youth , and make the pious and solicitous care of so good a mother happily successful to preserve you from all inclination to the debaucheries of the age ; which have proved so fatal to not a few great men and great families ; so since your coming to years of consideration and iudgment , you have not onely upon deliberate choice totally deelined them , but from the love of virtue heartily detested them . i know your lordship to be excellently well principled , both as a subject of his majesty , and a son of the church of england ; and to be a perfect enemy to the two great adversaries of both , viz. popery and fanaticism . and that , as a noble clergie-man of this church was your grandfather , so your lordship hath always been an affectionate friend and patron of her clergie ; and have had a very particular value for those of them whose piety , prudence and learning intitle them to esteem . but i will not enlarge so far as truly i might upon this subject , i shall onely add , that i know your lordship to be a lover of books and learning ( wherein you attained to very good proficiency , by your noted studiousness and industry in the vniversity ) but chiefly to admire that sort of learning which incomparably excelleth all other , viz. that which our great master christ jesus hath so highly advanc'd and perfected : the design of which is to make us wise to salvation , and happy both in this world and to all eternity . and this ( if your lordship shall vouchsafe to peruse it ) you will find is for a great part the immediate business of the following treatise : as it is of the remainder , to vndermine and subvert those principles , both popish and others , which are of so pernicious consequence , and infinitely mischievous to that design . i am so well acquainted with your lordships candour and ingenuity , as to presume that it will easily overlook the many defects of this discourse , for the sake of that honest meaning which your charity will believe prompted me to the writing and publication of it . god almighty continue to multiply his blessings both spiritual and temporal upon your lordship , together with your pious and eminently charitable lady , your hopeful children , and the rest of your as happy as noble family . this is , and shall be the hearty prayer of , my lord , your lordships most faithful and humble servant , edw. fowler . the preface . as the right understanding of the nature of the christian religion will enable us to discover all destructive and dangerous errors , so those cannot be ignorant of its true nature who are acquainted with its design and business ; and consequently to be well informed herein is the most sure and compendious method that can be made choice of to preserve our selves from the contagion of heresie , and all such opinions and practices as are apt to make us bad christians . by this means men may save themselves the tedious labour of busying their heads in particular controversies , and in strictly examining all the arguments whereby the many sects among us do endeavour to make their proper sentiments to pass for great gospel truths : it is sufficient to measure them all by this one standard , and compare them with this rule ; which having done , we may be fully satisfied , that all such as are opposite to the intendment of our saviour's coming are to be rejected , all such as tend to promote it are to be embraced , and as for such as do neither oppose nor promote it ( if any such are ) it is not worth our while in the least to concern our selves about them . the consideration hereof did heretofore induce me to write that treatise , intituled , the design of christianity : and whereas divers worthy persons about that time had written to excellently good purpose against certain popular notions in religion , and abundantly exposed both the falsity and dangerousness of them , i employed my small talent in endeavouring in that discourse to undermine them all together in the lump , and to pluck them up by the roots : and , i praise god for it , i have seen reason to hope that i did not wholly lose my labour . now the reader will soon perceive that this plain discourse of christian liberty ( as is expressed in the title-page ) is a farther pursuance and improvement of the argument of that treatise : and that the self-same thing for substance is endeavoured in both . and i was the more inclined to treat of this subject , because , as clear and obvious as our notion thereof is , i do not know that it hath hitherto happened to be fully expressed in any other book , and much less made out and improved . considering the near relation between these two discourses , i may save my self and reader the trouble of a long preface , and shall do little more than acquaint him in a few words with these three things . first , the body of the discourse is as practical as can be , and treats of as weighty and important points as are to be found in the gospel : nor is there any one notion started throughout the whole , but what is both very easie , and improveable to the best and most profitable purposes . secondly , the opinions and practices which are exposed as false and dangerous are none but such as are most evidently contradictory to christian liberty as 't is here explicated , or to that natural liberty which is the not to be invaded property of mankind ; although some of them , we have shewed , are insisted upon by not a few , as so many parts or branches of christian liberty : and all those that we have concerned our selves with may be reduced to three heads , antinomian , fanatical and popish : upon which last we have much more enlarged than on the other two ; and not ( especially at this time ) without great reason . thirdly , we have fully made it appear , that as no man can entertain a kind thought of popery , so neither can he easily satisfie himself to separate from the communion of the church of england , while he hath the true notion of christian liberty . the present separation of so great a number of our protestant brethren ( i meddle not here with the mere non-conformity of ministers ) is chiefly occasioned , the more is the shame , by things that are very little in their own nature ; by matters acknowledged by them generally to be indifferent in themselves , and which they can never shew are forbidden by any express law of god , nor can make them look in the least like sinful things , otherwise than by using a deal of artifice and force in interpreting and applying of certain scriptures . and the great obstacle to our peace and unity , i mean next to pride , self-conceit and the want of the true christian spirit , is a gross mistake concerning the nature of christian liberty : it being conceived that as little things as are the cause of the breach , there is a great thing parted with by complying with them ; no less a thing than that which their saviour judged to be worth the expence of his precious bloud to purchase it for them , which is this liberty . and could the brethren of the separation be once perswaded out of their darling notion thereof ( as if they will they easily may ) and be satisfied that it is no way betrayed by obeying their governours ; while nothing worse is imposed by them than what is indifferent , the well-meaning people amongst them would soon think it of far worse consequence to break the peace of the church about such things , than to conform to them : especially since these divisions are no less dangerous to both the church and state than unchristian and scandalous . for who doth not see what advantage our common enemy doth make of them , and what farther advantage , not to be thought of without horrour , he may be too like to make ? i have one humble request to make to the reader , viz. that he will be , i don't say so kind , but so just to me as not hastily to censure me , if he happens now and then to light upon a passage which at first sight may seem somewhat odd to him , but have the patience to suspend his displeasure till he hath read farther ; when he may possibly perceive that he misunderstood me in those passages : for it is impossible ( i at least find it so ) to deliver the intire sense of ones mind all at once , concerning any thing that requireth some considerable exercise of thoughts . i desire especially that this right may be done me in the fifteenth chapter , which treats of that most ticklish argument , liberty of conscience ; whereon i have endeavoured to give my most sedate thoughts with all sincerity and impartiality . i will conclude with this advertisement , that whereas i have touched upon several things which i have since found in the learned dean of s. paul's his most excellent discourse , intituled the mischief of separation , i had perfectly completed all that part where i have done so , and sent much of it to the press too before i read that discourse ; nor did it occasion the addition of any one thing . and it would have been , i am sensible , a weak thing of me had i industriously repeated things published to the world so immediately before by that great man , with so much greater advantage . the contents . sect . i. that the most excellent and most highly to be valued liberty doth consist in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness : or in freedom from the dominion of corrupt and sinful affections . chap. i. this shewed in the general from texts of scripture , and further confirmed by those who were strangers to divine revelation . page . chap. ii. that the most excellent freedom and liberty consists in the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness , more distinctly and particularly demonstrated by three arguments . of which the first is , that this is freedom from the worst and vilest of slaveries . where it is shewed in three particulars , that the transgressors of those laws are the most slavish creatures . pag. . chap. iii. that the liberty which resulteth from the observance of the laws of righteousness is , secondly , the liberty of the soul : and how it is so , is shewed in four particulars . pag. . chap. iv. that this is , thirdly , the liberty of god himself , and his most excellent liberty . pag. . sect . ii. that this freedom to holy obedience and true goodness , or which consisteth in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness , is our christian liberty . chap. v. the foresaid proposition demonstrated by f●●r arguments , viz. first , that this hath b●en proved to be the most glorious liberty . secondly , this was that liberty , the instating us wherein , was the whole business of our saviour and his apostles . thirdly , our 〈◊〉 abolishing the ceremonial law was chiefly d●signed in 〈◊〉 to the thorough effecting this liberty : where it is shewed , that this law accidentally became very prejudicial to the great design of setting men free from the power of their lusts , in several particulars . fourthly , that none but the jews were obliged to the observance of this law. pag. . chap. vi. what course our lord hath taken to instate us in this liberty shewed in several particulars , viz. that . he hath most fully informed us concerning all the parts and particulars of our liberty . . he hath furnished us with the most potent means , for the gaining of it . . he hath purchased a rich supply of grace and strength , to enable us to use these means successfully . . he hath laid before us the most powerful motives and arguments to prevail on our wills to make use of this strength , and comply with this grace . pag. . chap. vii . wherein is discoursed the first of those motives and arguments which are offered in the gospel , to perswade us to use the means prescribed for our deliverance from the power of sin. namely , the love of god in sending his son upon the errand of our redemption . and two most powerful motives implied in this . pag. . chap. viii . a seasonable digression concerning the doctrine of vniversal redemption . the antiquity and catholicalness of this doctrine . large citations out of bishop latimer and bishop hooper , expressing their sense of it . and full proof thereof presented out of the h. scriptures . pag. . chap. ix . wherein are contained five more evangelical motives , which are of wonderful power to excite us to diligence in using the means of our deliverance from the dominion of sin , viz. our saviours excellent example . the assurance he hath given us , that he will not take such advantage of our frailties and weaknesses , as to cast us off for them . our saviours mediation and intercession . the glorious reward he hath purchased for , and promised to those , who , by the assistance of his grace , overcome their lusts. and the most dismal threatnings he hath pronounced against those who receive that grace in vain , and will not be delivered from the dominion of sin. pag. . sect . iii. containing the inferences from each of the arguments of the foregoing sections . chap. x. which treats of the first inference from the first proposition , [ that the most excellent liberty doth consist in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness ; or in freedom from the dominion of sinful affections . ] namely , that those are most vnreasonable and depraved people , who complain of the divine laws as intolerable intrenchments upon their liberty . where it is shewed , first , that upon supposition our liberty were restrained by the laws of god , it would nevertheless be most unreasonable to complain upon that account . secondly , that the laws which oblige christians do not restrain their liberty . pag. . chap. xi . the second inference , viz. that such a freedom of will as consists in an indifferency to good or evil , is no perfection , but the contrary . pag. . chap. xii . which treats of one branch of the first inference from the argument of the second section , [ that in freedom from the dominion of corrupt affections doth that liberty principally or rather wholly consist , which christ hath purchased for us . ] namely , that several notions of christian liberty , which have too much prevailed , are false and of dangerous consequence . the first of which is , that which makes it to consist , wholly or in part , in freedom from the obligation of the moral law. certain texts , urged by the antinomians in favour of it , vindicated from the sence they put upon them . and the extreme wildness and wickedness of it exposed in five particulars . pag. . chap. xiii . a second false notion of christian liberty , viz. that which makes it to consist in freedom from the obligation of those laws of men , which enjoyn or forbid indifferent things . this notion differently managed by the defenders of it . first , some extend it so far as to make it to reach to all humane laws , the matter of which are things indifferent . secondly , others limit it to those which relate to religion and the worship of god. the . vers. of the . chap. of the epist. to the corinthians cleared from giving any countenance to either of these opinions . the former of them confuted by three arguments : and the latter by four . vnder the second of which , several texts of scripture which are much insisted upon in the defence thereof , are taken into consideration . an unjust reflection upon the church of england briefly replied to . and this principle , that the imposing of things indifferent in divine worship is no violation of christian liberty , proved to be no ways serviceable to popery , by considering what the popish impositions are in three particulars . pag. . chap. xiv . an answer to this question , whether the prescribing of forms of prayer , for the publick worship of god , be not an encroachment upon christian liberty ? wherein it is shewed , that this is not a stifling of the spirit , or restraining the exercise of his gift . and what in prayer is not , as also what is the gift of the spirit . whereby is occasioned an answer to another question , viz. whether an ability for preaching be properly a gift of the spirit . pag. . chap. xv. a third false notion of christian liberty , viz. that which makes liberty of conscience a branch of it . two things premised , . that conscience is not so sacred a thing as to be uncapable of being obliged by humane laws . . that no man can properly be deprived of the true liberty of his conscience by any power on earth . that what is contended for , is more properly liberty of practice than of conscience . the author's opinion in reference to this liberty delivered in ten propositions . that whatsoever liberty of this nature may be insisted on as our right , it is not christian liberty but natural liberty . pag. . chap. xvi . the third inference from our notion of christian liberty , viz. that popery is the greatest enemy in the world thereunto . where it is shewed , first , that the church of rome robs those who are subject to her of that natural liberty which necessarily belongs to them as they are men , viz. that which consists in the free use of their vnderstandings in matters of religion . that she will not permit men to examine either her doctrines or practices by the holy scriptures ; nor yet to receive the holy scriptures themselves otherwise than upon her authority . the wickedness of this exposed in two particulars . the alledging of scripture for it , shewed to be the grossest absurdity . their great text tim. . . spoken to . her tyranny over mens minds further shewed . pag. . chap. xvii . where it is shewed , secondly , that popery is as great an enemy as can be to christian liberty . and first , to that liberty which our saviour hath purchased for the world in general . as . that it tendeth as much as is possible to the corrupting of mens souls by subjecting them to vile affections . this shewed in the general , viz. in that it is apt to beget false notions of god ; and more particularly , in that it brings men under the power of the lusts of malice , revenge , cruelty ; pride and ambition ; covetousness ; uncleanness ; intemperance ; and the greatest injustice and unrighteousness . . that it no less tendeth to disquiet mens minds with certain troublesome passions . pag. . chap. xviii . the third particular discoursed on , viz. that the admirable method our lord hath taken to instate us in our christian liberty , is made lamentably ineffectual by popery . this shewed as to each of those four particulars that method consists of . the second head briefly spoken to , viz. that popery is also the greatest enemy to that liberty christ purchased for the jews in particular . a pathetical exhortation to a higher valuing of the priviledges we enjoy in the church of england concludes the chapter . pag. . chap. xix . the fourth inference , that he onely is a true christian , that looks upon himself as obliged to be no less watchful over his heart and the frame and temper of his mind , than over his life and conversation . pag. . chap. xx. the last inference , viz. that the most proper and genuine christian obedience is that which hath most of liberty in it ; namely , that which proceeds from the principle of love to god and goodness . pag. errata . page . line . for six , read thirty six . page . line . after controversie , add this parenthesis ( if they could be ingenuous . ) page . line . after opportunities for , add or in order to . a discourse of christian liberty . the introduction . there is nothing toward which mankind is more naturally or vehemently affected than freedom and liberty ; there is so great a value and price set upon it , that life it self is not thought too precious to be hazarded or laid down for it : and many have rather chosen to die by their enemies hands than to be inslaved by them . it was the saying of cato , malui mori quàm uni parere , i had rather die than that one man ( meaning iulius caesar ) should lord it over me : and he was as good as his word , he laid violent hands upon himself rather than that usurper should be his master . the jewish nation , being besieged in ierusalem , thought it more eligible to suffer the most direful calamities , such as are not to be parallel'd in any other history , than yield themselves captives to titus , and put their necks under the roman yoke . both single persons and communities esteem all their other enjoyments but little worth , whilest liberty is wanting , nor hath any one thing occasioned so much bloudshed in the world , as the defence or recovery of liberty . though tacitus tells us , that 't was greatly deliberated among the gallican cities , whether liberty or peace was to be preferred , yet ordinarily , without the least consultation , when these two stand in competition , the former is chosen , and peace is forced to give way to and sold for liberty . there is no suffering so impatiently born as the loss , or but infringment of liberty , nor are any looked upon as such enemies to mankind , or have so hateful a character , as the invaders of it . but yet as inamoured with liberty as we all are , the generality are lamentably ignorant of its true nature , and wherein it mainly and principally consisteth . a spartan being asked , quid sciret ? replied , scio quid est liberum esse : i know what liberty and freedom meaneth : but i fear there are very few comparatively that can truly return this answer ; nay , that most are so strangely mistaken in this matter , as to account the worst of slaveries the most desirable liberty , and the chiefest of liberties the most intolerable slavery . but if we will believe our blessed saviour , who , being the wisdom of the father , can best inform us , we shall be satisfied that there is no liberty like that which is of his bestowing : he hath said , iohn . . if the son shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ye shall be really free , and not only in shew , in outward appearance and opinion ; you shall be in the truest and most excellent sence free . which words do plainly tell us , that all other liberties are unworthy of that name , in comparison of that which is conferred by himself . and what i now said of liberty in the general , may as truly be affirmed of christian liberty , viz. first , that there is nothing hath raised more dust , or occasioned more sad feuds in the christian world than this hath done : the great ball of contention hath been christian liberty , among the professed disciples of christ. such an opinion is conceived of it , that 't is never thought too dearly bought . this is the good old cause , for which multitudes have been very liberal of both their fortunes and lives ; and no one thing hath been esteemed better , if so well , deserving the price of bloud . the pretence of christian liberty is of all other the most plausible and popular , and nothing hath been more unhappily successful in raising tumults and exciting the people to take the field . nay , this hath been held so sacred a thing ( if it be lawful to judge of mens opinions by their practices ) as to be able to hallow the unholiest actions , and to sanctifie the most apparently wicked , when designed for the preserving or regaining thereof . and therefore . secondly , too many that are called christians ( as i should not need to add ) must needs very grosly mistake the nature of that they are so fond of . and , as great zeal as they shew for christian liberty , do as little desire that which really is so , and is the chiefest instance of it . upon which account i presume 't will be thought no needless labour to endeavour to rectifie mens apprehensions about the nature of this liberty . and in order hereunto i design , with gods assistance , to shew in the following discourse , first , that the most excellent and most highly to be valued liberty doth consist in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness ; or in freedom from the dominion of corrupt and sinful affections . secondly , that herein that liberty principally , or rather wholly consisteth , which our blessed saviour hath purchased for us , and in his gospel proclaimed to us . which two propositions being demonstrated , we shall thirdly , draw distinctly from each several useful inferences , where particularly the false notions which too many have conceived of christian liberty shall be effectually confuted . sect . i. that the most excellent and most highly to be valued liberty doth consist in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness : or in freedom from the dominion of corrupt and sinful affections . chap. i. this shewed in the general from texts of scripture , and further confirmed by those who were strangers to divine revelation . now in the general that this is so , those forecited words of our saviour , iohn . . do give us assurance : for the freedom which christ there commends as the true freedom by way of eminence is this from the dominion of sin and corrupt affections . this will appear by considering the context : our saviour having said , verse , . to those iews that believed on him , if you continue inmy words , then are ye my disciples indeed , and ye shall know the truth , and the truth shall make you free ; it follows ver . . they answered him , we be abrahams seed , and were never in bondage to any man , how sayest thou , ye shall be made free . they answered , not the believers , but some of the company that came with no good design , we be abrahams seed , we are not descended from the canaanites or other servile people , but from abraham , and from him , not by hagar the bond-woman , but by sarah the free-woman , we are of a generous and illustrious extract ; and were never in bondage to any man , as we were not born slaves , so neither have at any time been made slaves . but how could they say this , whenas they were formerly in bondage , both to the egyptians and babylonians , with divers others , and even now subjected to the power of the romans ? the truth is , if they spake this concerning their nation , the saying was an impudent and loud falshood , as it is usual for men when they are vaunting and boasting , to make bold with truth ; but if they understood it of their own particulars , and they meant that they were not in personal servitude , had not lost their natural liberty as men , though they were in a political servitude as a nation , their saying that they were abrahams seed came in impertinently . it follows ver . . iesus answered them , verily verily i say unto you , whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin . he that is a worker of iniquity , is inslaved and brought into a servile state thereby : ver. . and the servant abideth not in the house for ever , but the son abideth for ever . or those who are in this servile state , under sin , though they may for a time be members of gods houshold , they shall at length be for ever cast out , but the son hath a right to continue there , and to the enjoyment of his fathers inheritance . then next follow those words , if the son therefore shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed . so that the freedom which our lord speaks of , ver . . being deliverance from the power of sin , as appears by his explaining himself , ver . . it is manifest that he meaneth the same thing in these words , and consequently does in them give testimony to what we are now designing to prove , that to be rescued from under the dominion of our lusts is freedom and liberty indeed , the true and most excellent liberty . and of this the holy david was very sensible , when he uttered those words , psal. . . i will walk at liberty , for i seek thy precepts . whereby he signified , that the ways of gods commandments , though they seem to the fleshly and sensual strait and narrow , and though such look upon those that walk in them as too much confined and abridged of liberty ; yet the spirit of a regenerate and good man finds no where such freedom and enlargement as in those ways . and therefore when he lapsed into those two hainous and provoking sins , he felt himself exceedingly straitned , and his spirit was miserably pent up and contracted : as appears by that prayer in his penitential psalm , psal. . . restore to me the joy of thy salvation , and uphold ( or establish ) me with thy free spirit . or rather , with a free spirit . in pet. . . the apostle , speaking of a sort of wicked people , who were industrious to make others as vile as themselves , saith , that while they promise them liberty , they themselves are the servants of corruption , for of whom a man is overcome , of the same is he brought in bondage . they inticed others to all manner of carnality and filthiness , and tempted those that were clean escaped from the pollutions of the world to relapse into them , and this they did by the plausible pretence of giving them liberty ; but alas ( saith the apostle ) they themselves are the most wretched and miserable of slaves , having yielded themselves up to their vile affections , and being under the power and command of tyrannical lusts. and heathens have divers of them discoursed this excellently , and were great masters of this notion : that he who is gotten from under the dominion of his sensitive part , and lives agreeably to the dictates of right reason , and the will of god , is the only free man. arrian in his third book upon epictetus spends some time in shewing , that the true liberty consisteth in the obedience of our appetites to the divine will. and in his first book , that there is no true bondage but that which ariseth from the prevalence of evil affections ; and that a good man can never be in real slavery , though he be in his enemies hands , that then his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his carkass only is taken captive , but he himself is as free still as ever . and he gives diogenes for an instance , who having been set free from his corrupt appetites by his master antisthenes , would deny that it was possible for any one to make a slave of him , and , being taken by pirates , behaved himself in their hands like one that was more their lord than their vassal . and this is one of the stoical paradoxes which tully discourseth very bravely upon : that all wise men ( whereby they meant good men ) are free men , but all fools ( whereby they meant bad men ) are slaves . and under this head tully , shewing who deserves the title of emperor , hath this saying , let him bridle his lusts , despise pleasures , suppress anger , subdue a covetous humour , and other vicious affections : then may be begin to take upon him the government of others , when he shall have ceased to be under the government of those most cruel lords , shame and turpitude , but whilest he yields obedience to these , as he ought not to be accounted an emperor , so neither so much as a free-man . again he saith a little after . if slavery be the obedience of a broken , abject and base mind , and of a man that hath no power over himself , as it is , then who can deny that allwanton , all covetous , and lastly , all bad people whatsoever are very slaves ? chap. ii. that the most excellent freedom and liberty consists in the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness , more distinctly and particularly demonstrated by three arguments . of which the first is that this is freedom from the worst and vilest of slaveries . where it is shewed in three particulars , that the transgressors of those laws are the most slavish creatures . it may moreover be more distinctly and particularly proved , that the most excellent freedom and liberty consisteth in the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness by these following arguments . first , this is freedom from the worst and vilest of slaveries . secondly , this is the liberty of the soul. thirdly , this is the divine liberty , the liberty of god himself . first , this is freedom from the worst and vilest of slaveries . and that there is no such slavish creature as he who lives in the transgression of these laws ( as the wicked man ) doth plainly appear , in that , first , his whole man , both soul and body is inslaved . those who are slaves in the vulgar sence , that are taken captive by the turk , or such like merciless and inhumane masters , are necessarily inslaved only as to their viler part , their bodies : it lieth not in the power of any man on earth to inslave a soul. the mind and will of him , who , as to his outward man , is the most absolute vassal to the lusts of others , may retain their liberty still in spight of them . no tyrant can make me either think , or chuse , or love , or desire what he pleaseth . where all the members of the body are under constraint , the soul may continue free in all its powers , no external force is able to inthral that . but he who lives in disobedience to the laws of righteousness is perfectly inslaved , his whole man hath lost its liberty . as his body is at the command and dispose of his lusts , as each of its members are ministers of unrighteousness , and made to fulfil the will of the flesh , so his soul is subjected to their power and dominion , and his slavery begins there . his mind , will and affections are first subdued and brought into bondage by fleshly and impure lusts , and then his body is ingaged in the filthy drudgery of making provision for them , of gratifying them and giving satisfaction to them . that is the meaning of those words of s. iames , then when lust hath conceived , it bringeth forth sin , chap. . . secondly , the wicked man is thus subject to the vilest and basest of masters . such a one ( to repeat those words of tully ) doth parere dedecori & turpitudini , is at the command of vile shame and filthiness it self . what is sordid covetousness , swinish lust , beastly intemperance , devilish rage and malice , what i say are all these less than so ? to which i may add those other hateful qualities of fraud , dissimulation , envy , pride , selfishness , and the like . but some or other , nay most of these are all wicked men , servants to , and over-powered by . if tully could say of the lustful man , an ille mihi liber videtur cui mulier imperat ? shall i think him a freeman who is at the command of a woman ? and if arrian could say , what , miserable wretch , dost thou fancy thy self free , who art 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the slave of a wench , and a vile sorry wench too ; well may i say , what a wretched slave art thou then , who art under the dominion of so many base , vile , opprobrious , shameful and hateful things ? to be subject to any one of these is vile servitude ; what is it then to be at the command of so many such masters , to serve divers lusts ( as the apostles expression is , titus . . ) and all most vile , base and brutish . thirdly , the wicked man is also inslaved by the most tyrannical and cruel masters . indeed 't is rare that the base prove other than cruel whensoever they happen to get into power . having understood who are this mans masters , we must needs be satisfied , that they are not more vile than they are tyrannical . and their tyranny is shewed in requiring the most vnreasonable services , and the most vneasie . their commands must necessarily be most unreasonable in that they themselves are so . the forementioned vile affections , and the like , are therefore vile , because perfect contradictions to the reason of mens minds , and degradations of the humane and intellectual nature : because they brutifie mens souls , yea , and make them more vile than the beasts which perish . in short , he who obeys these masters preferreth the creature before the creator , god blessed for ever : he forsakes the fountain of living waters , and heweth out to himself broken cisterns which can hold no water : his body is far more dear to him than his soul , and he esteems slight and momentany satisfactions and pleasures , above the most substantial and eternal . he fears the displeasure of a poor creature , and some very tolerable and small evil , more than the wrath of the omnipotent god , and than hell it self . he is ever doing that which the sence of his own mind upbraids him with , and what he knows before hand he shall wish undone as soon as done . in a word , he is always contradicting the great design of his creation and coming into being . such things as these ( as i need not stand to shew ) do the lusts of wicked men put them upon doing , such services as these are they perpetually imploying them in . and what we said of the vnreasonableness of their commands speaks them also vneasie , grievous and troublesome . it is impossible for a creature to act contrary to its nature and essential principles , but it must needs feel much pain in so doing ; the more unnatural any thing is , the more disquieting and tormenting must it necessarily be . the very presence of evil affections in the soul must needs make it as uneasie , as evil humours do the body ; what then will the gratifying , the nourishing and cherishing them do ? i appeal to the covetous and ambitious , to the immoderate lovers of riches and honours , to such lovers of wine , and such lovers of women , to the revengeful and malicious , and the like , whether they do not feel excessive disturbance and perturbation of mind , from the several passions that denominate them such ; and whether the pain they cause to their souls , be not incomparably greater and more lasting , than the pleasure which their flesh or sensitive part receiveth from them . add hereunto the grievous disquiet and torment that is occasioned by reflecting upon the past pleasing and gratifying a lust. tully hath an excellent observation to this purpose , when a lust hath ceased to exercise its dominion for a while , or to employ its vassal in new drudgery , he is not for that time at ease , but another lord immediately tyrannizeth over him , viz. the dread that ariseth from consciousness of guilt , oh what a miserable slavery and bondage is this ! and ( by the way ) methinks it should much affect us , to find a heathen expressing such a sense of the intolerable slavery men are brought into by satisfying their lusts. i might add further , that mens lusts have no moderation with them neither , though ( as that philosopher supposeth ) they may , after their commands are obeyed , for a while cease to command again , yet it is but for a very little while ; before the sinner hath recovered his spent spirits , they lay new burdens on his weary shoulders . what the apostle saith of those who have eyes full of adultery that they cannot cease from sin , is as true of those who are under the dominion of any lust whatsoever : and what horace observes of the tyranny of sensual love , may as well be applied to every other corrupt affection , namely , vrget enim mentem dominus non lenis , & acres subjectat lasso stimulos . this cruel lord th' unhappy creature rides , and , when be-jaded , claps sharp spurs to 's sides . i might moreover shew , were it needful , that the service which mens lusts exact from them , is such as ordinarily is of fatal consequence to their estates and bodies as well as souls , but there is nothing to which universal observation in all ages , and sinners experience gives clearer evidence . i might also in the last place , shew , that mens lusts do deliver up their servants to the power of the devil , such being said to be in his snare , and to be taken captive by him at his will , tim. . . and no man , i hope , shall need to be informed , what a tyrant and tormenter the devil is . but enough hath been said of the service of sin to make us cry out with the philosopher in the forementioned words , quàm illa misera , quàm dura servitus ! what miserable and cruel slavery is that service ! enough , i say , hath been said to assure us , that no slavery is comparable to this , and consequently , that the careful observance of the laws of righteousness is the true , and most glorious liberty , in that , freedom from such bondage is implied therein , as is not to be found in any other sort of liberty . chap. iii. that the liberty which resulteth from the observance of the laws of righteousness , is the liberty of the soul : and how it is so , is shewed in four particulars . secondly , the liberty which resulteth from the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness is the truest and most excellent of liberties , in that it is the liberty and freedom of the soul. as this is apparent by what hath been already discoursed , so we may further take notice , that by the observance of these laws the soul comes to be enlarged , to have self-enjoyment , and to be as it would be , in that it is by this means delivered from those passions which straiten , confine and pend it up , and put it into a slavish state . those passions are chiefly , fear , shame , trouble and dejection of mind , and an immoderate love to our own bodily and particular concerns . and the opposites to these do give the soul great enlargement and liberty , viz. that confidence that is opposite both to fear and to shame , delight and joy , which are opposite to trouble and dejection of mind , and generosity and nobleness of spirit , whereby a man is carried forth to the loving of god the chief good in the first place , and a hearty concern for the general welfare of his fellow-creatures , which is opposite to immoderate self-love . first , the observance of the rules of righteousness casteth out fear . this is a most servile passion ; the apostle speaketh of some , who through fear of ●●ath were all their life-time subject to bondage . by fear i mean that which is expressed by the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a cowardly and dispiriting fear . none can imagine i mean 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an awful and reverential fear , such as is called , heb. . . a godly fear : nor yet do i mean such a fear as awakens and excites the soul to the use of means for the shunning and keeping off evils . such a fear as this doth not at all inslave or put a man out of his own power , but is highly serviceable to the maintenance and preservation of liberty . and therefore it is commended to us by the apostle , heb. . . let us therefore fear lest a promise being left us of entering into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it . but , as was said , the fear which is enslaving is a cowardly dispiriting fear , and this the righteous and good man is freed from . he hath not received the spirit of bondage again to fear , in this sence , but the spirit of adoption whereby he crieth abba father , rom. . . he is not afraid of god as a poor slave is of his fierce master , or as a wicked servant of his justly provoked and incensed lord ; but not being under the guilt of wilful sins , his conscience being privy to no other guilt than that which upon good grounds he believes is expiated by the bloud of iesus , he can go to god as a child to his loving and tender father . and as he hath no tumultuary , confounding or disheartening fear of god , so neither hath he of the devil or men , or any worldly evil ; as knowing that all these are subject to the restraint of that good providence which ever chargeth it self with the care of good souls and all their concerns . god hath not given him the spirit of fear ( or timidity and fearfulness ) but of power , of love , and of a sound mind , tim. . . this man is an affectionate lover of god , and therefore cannot question god's love to him , and is assured that all things shall work together for his good , for his good both in this life , and in the life to come . herein is our love made perfect , saith s. iohn in his epistle . . because as he is , so are we in this world ( because we follow the example of our blessed saviour in the conscientious observance of the rules of righteousness ) there is no fear in love , but perfect love casteth out fear , because fear hath torment , he that feareth is not made perfect in love : that is , he that is affected with such a fear as hath now been described . he who is not under the power of cowardizing , dismaying fear , his spirit is at great liberty ; but a care to keep an inoffensive conscience both towards god and men , to adhere to the rules of righteousness and goodness , and never to swerve from them , will banish this fear . the wicked ( saith the wise man ) fleeth when no man pursueth , but the righteous is bold as a lion , prov. . . he that walketh uprightly , walketh surely : or confidently and securely , prov. . . to which great truth the poet gives his testimony in those known verses ; integer vitae scelerisque purus non eget mauri jaculis nec arcu , &c. he that 's in life upright and pure in heart is too secure to need the bow or dart. — hic murus aheneus esto nil conscire sibi , nullâ & pallescere culpâ . the strongest bulwark's not so sure a fence as is an inoffensive conscience . secondly , true goodness begets that confidence which is opposed , as to fear so , to shame too . there is a highly commendable shame , which is proper to a good man , namely that which is expressed by the latine verecundia : which is a quick sense of whatsoever is indecorous and misbecoming . no man can have too much of this , for the more any one hath of it , the better man must he necessarily be . but there is another sort of shame expressed by pudor , which is a troublesome passion arising from a sense of disgrace , upon consciousness of guilt . of this shame , the most learned doctor henry more observeth in his incomparable ethicks , that it neither falleth upon the worst nor the best of men . for he who is conscious to himself that he constantly exerciseth his liberty in doing the best things , knows that he ought not to be contemned , and thereupon , being above all contempt , contempt it self is contemned by him ; which is a great instance , in good men , of generosity , but in bad men , is the very height of improbity . this shame is a good effect of a bad cause , for though it be an evil , yet 't is a necessary evil , and tends to the deterring men from unworthy actions for the time to come , and doth actually produce this good effect where the great uneasiness and perturbation of mind which was caused thereby upon past commissions of sin , is seriously and consideratively reflected upon . for where this shame is , there is great bondage , where there is consciousness of guilt , the mind of a man is miserably pent up , confined and straitned , so that he dares many times neither to look abroad into the world , nor to look up to heaven , nor reflect upon himself . and therefore liberty and confidence are expressed by the same word ( viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) in the greek language . but while a man is careful in the observance of the laws of righteousness , to be righteous before god , and to walk ( as it is said of zacharias and elizabeth ) in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless , he is not affected with this kind of shame , and consequently enjoys a mighty freedom by this means . upright iob had the happy experience of this effect of uprightness ; as we find chap. . , , . oh that one would hear me , ( saith he ) behold my desire is , that the almighty would answer me , and that mine adversary had written a book . surely i would take it upon my shoulder , and bind it as a crown unto me . i would declare to him the number of my steps , as a prince would i go near unto him . which is as much as if he had said , oh that mine adversary instead of secretly whispering evil things of me , had drawn up a charge in writing against me : i would be so far from endeavouring to have it concealed , that i would my self publish it to all the world , and instead of thinking it a disgrace and disparagement , i would esteem it as an ornament ; for my innocence would be the more cleared , and my good name vindicated by the means of it . and so far would i be from sneaking and skulking in corners , like one ashamed to shew his head , that i would like a prince with heroick courage and confidence go up to the face of mine enemy , and expose and lay open my whole life before him . or rather we will read these verses as the sence of them is expressed in a late excellent paraphrase upon this book : oh that the truth of all this [ that i have been accused of ] might be examined by some equal judge ! behold i continue still to desire of god this favour : and let him that can accuse me , bring in his libel in writing against me . surely i would not endeavour to obscure it , but openly expose it to be read by all ; nay wear it as a singular ornament , which would turn to mine honour , when the world saw it disproved . i my self would assist him to draw up his charge , by declaring to him freely every action of my life : i would approach him as undauntedly as a prince , who is assured of the goodness of his cause . these words , with many other of his sayings , shew , what a blessed liberty the soul of this holy man was possessed with , even whilest he was deprived of all his outward comforts , and in the saddest and most dismal circumstances . thirdly , nothing will free a man from trouble and dejection of mind , like the careful observance of the laws of righteousness . this as it is a certain consequent of fear and shame , it must needs free a man from , as it freeth from those its causes : but it incomparably beyond any thing in the world cureth this malady of a wounded spirit how or by whatsoever it be occasioned . i have shewed that it is the fate of sinners to feel great perturbation and disturbance of mind from their corrupt affections , by the law in their members warring against the law of their minds , and also by reflecting upon their folly and madness , and by the fearful expectations that their manifold bold transgressions of the divine laws do raise in them . the wicked ( saith the prophet ) are like the troubled sea , which cannot rest , whose waters cast up mire and dirt : there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked . cain had no sooner given place to envy and revenge , but his countenance fell , and the disquiet of his mind was bewrayed by his looks . but there is no such lightsomness and sprightfulness of soul , no such pleasure and self-satisfaction as that which results from true religion , righteousness and goodness . it 's ways are ways of pleasantness , and all its paths peace , prov. . . light is sown for the righteous , and joy for the vpright in heart , psal. . . great peace have they that love thy law , and nothing shall offend them , psal. . . the work of rigteousness shall be peace , and the effect of righteousness quietness , and assurance for ever , esay . . the good man is free from self-accusations , and from that gnawing worm that is frequently felt in guilty breasts . he is not appalled in thinking of what is past , nor cast down with the fore-thought of that which is to come . his soul is like a calm and clear river , like the waters of siloam which run softly , without noise or murmur . whatsoever is natural is for that reason highly pleasing , but nothing so natural to the heaven-born soul of man , nothing is so agreeable to our original make , as to live in conformity to the laws of righteousness . whilest this is our serious care , we act according to our highest principle , that principle which god and nature designed for our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , our leader and governour , i mean the reason of our minds . and therefore so long as we follow its dictates , and behave our selves like those on whose souls the divine image is imprinted , which consisteth in righteousness and true holiness , so long i say we live in our own element , and therefore must necessarily have self-enjoyment : and we shall enjoy our selves more or less according as we are more or less diligent in works of righteousness and goodness . the experience of every good man will force him to subscribe to the truth of this ; no such man can withhold his assent from it , or call it into question any more than he can his own feeling . such a one feels such serenity of thoughts , and such great delight and satisfaction of mind in the exercise of love to god and love to men , in works of piety , justice and charity , in the exercise of humility , meekness , patience and submission to the divine will , and all other christian graces and virtues , that , while he is so employed , all is as well within him as he can desire ; he accounts it a heaven upon earth to be so employed . i fear that many a one who would be thought a christian cannot receive this doctrine , that it seems to him a very strange soloecism ; but i could tell him of many a heathen of whom he may learn it as well as of christians ; particularly tully , who hath this brave saying in his tusculan questions : o philosophy the guide of our lives ! o thou seeker out of virtues , and expeller of vices ! one day well spent , and in obedience to thy precepts , ought to be preferred before a sinning immortality . and all those say for substance the self-same thing , who tell us , that virtue is a reward to it self . the good man feels also no small pleasure in reflecting upon the fruits of righteousness he hath brought forth : and much more in the contemplation of that glorious reward , which god for christ's sake hath promised to those who patiently persevere in well-doing . the fore-expectation whereof doth greatly support him under all the crosses and afflictions wherewith he is exercised in this life : and makes him not only patient under those tribulations he meets with for righteousness sake , but even to glory in them , as the apostles did and primitive christians . and moreover , he receiveth great refreshment and comfort more immediately from the holy ghost , especially when he is called forth to any exceedingly great suffering , or extraordinary service . he then marvellously strengthens the good man with strength in his soul to bear the one and perform the other as becomes a servant of iesus christ. which he doth chiefly by giving sensible , clear and lively representations to the good mans mind of the glory of heaven , and by stedfastly fixing it upon the crown of righteousness and life , which his blessed lord hath promised to all those who are faithful to the death . thus was the first christian martyr s. stephen strengthened , who being full of the holy ghost looked up stedfastly into heaven , and saw the glory of god , saw the heavens opened , as ready to receive him , and the son of man standing on the right hand of god. and in the same manner have innumerable of his followers been since strengthened ; and among others not a few of our own country people who were burnt at stakes by the bloudy papists in the reign of queen mary . and if ever such days should come again ( as god grant they may not ) all sincerely good souls , who are sensible of their own weakness , and intirely confide in the power of iesus , shall undoubtedly be enabled to suffer with great patience and constancy , if not with great ioyfulness also and triumphantly . and indeed without this more immediate and special divine assistance , we could not well hope to endure a fiery trial . all external encouragements , such is the infirmity of our natures , accompanied but with the ordinary assistance of the divine grace , are like little to avail us in the hour of such a temptation . and the reason is , because we shall be in great danger of being totally deprived of the power of considering by very acute pain and torment : and a vigorous powerful sense of the glory of heaven , is necessary to our bearing with patience , and much more with joyfulness the sharpest sort of tribulations ; the mere belief thereof would certainly have but a very weak influence in such a circumstance . and therefore ( as was said ) all good souls may confidently expect extraordinary assistance , whensoever they are called out to extraordinary sufferings . god is faithful ( saith the apostle ) who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able , &c. . cor. . . now then , who after all this shall need to be told , what a glorious liberty of soul is obtainable by the careful observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness ? but this will yet further appear , if we consider that , fourthly , it delivereth from all immoderate self-love . such a love of our selves as ties us down and determines us to our own bodily and particular concerns . a worthy person , in a discourse of the excellency of true religion hath a saying to our present purpose well worth our reciting , viz. that wicked men are of most narrow and confined spirits , they are so contracted by the pinching particularities of earthly and created things , so imprisoned in the dark dungeon of sensuality and selfishness , so straitned through their carnal designs and ends , that they cannot stretch themselves , nor look beyond the horizon of time and sense . and there he observeth , that plato hath long since concluded concerning the condition of sensual men , that they live 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like a shell-fish , and can never move up and down , but in their own prison , which they ever carry about with them . but true religion and goodness is so generous and noble a principle , that he who is acted thereby cannot be confined to himself and his own things . his soul is not imprisoned within himself , that is , within his own particular being separated from the rest of the world ; but is enlarged by an universal charity , by a sincere good will to god's whole creation . he hath an hearty concern for the good of the world , and carries on no designs for himself which are opposite thereunto , nor any other but such as some way or other do tend to promote the welfare and happiness of his fellow-creatures : and 't is the greatest pleasure to his mind imaginable , to be instrumental thereunto . again , his soul is not tied down to any inferior good things , his love and desires are not terminated on such objects , but they are so extensive as to stretch themselves far beyond this world , and fix upon the original and supreme good , and there to centre . the language of this man is the same with holy david ' s , whom have i in heaven but god , and there is nothing upon the earth i desire in comparison of him . though he hath a kindness for things below , yet his thoughts and affections are not confined to them , but soar aloft to him who is the author of them , and from whom all the goodness that is in them is derived . whereas ( as the foresaid author expresseth it ) all the freedom that wicked men have , is but like that of banished men , to wander up and down in the wilderness of this world , from one den and cave to another . and he saith before , that tully could see so much in his natural philosophy , as made him to say , scientia naturae ampliat animum & ad divina attollit : the knowledge of nature enlargeth and dilates the mind , and carrieth it up to divine things . but this is most true of religion , that in an higher sence it doth work the soul into a true and divine amplitude . and thus have we shewed , that the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness gives the most excellent liberty , in that the liberty which results from thence is the liberty of the soul ; and also how the soul is thereby set at liberty . chap. iv. that this is the liberty of god himself , and his most excellent liberty . thirdly , i proceed to shew , that the liberty which ariseth from the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness is the divine liberty , the liberty of god himself , and his most excellent liberty . god almighty is of all beings infinitely the most unlimited and uncontroulable by any thing without himself . he doth whatsoever pleaseth him , in heaven , the earth , the sea and all deep places . the whole universe is in his hands as the clay in the hands of the potter , perfectly under his power , and at his dispose , so that there is no resisting him , nor hindering one thought of his . but as unboundable as his will and power are by any thing without him , they are both determined , by the internal rectitude and goodness of his nature , to things holy , just and good. he is so great a lover of equity and goodness , that he can neither do or will any thing , that is contrary or not agreeable thereunto . we read that he is a rock whose work is perfect , and all his ways are judgment , a god of truth and without iniquity , just and right is he . that it is impossible for god to lye . that his ways are right and equal , and his judgment according to truth . that the judge of all the earth will do right , and that he will not lay upon man more than is right , that he should enter into judgment with god. that he is of purer eyes than to behold evil , and cannot look on iniquity ( i. e. ) with approbation . that the righteous lord loveth righteousness , and his countenance beholdeth the upright . that he is not tempted with evil ( is uncapable of the least inclination towards it ) neither tempteth he any man : can not tempt any man to evil , and much less by any decree determine him . that he is good unto all , and his tender mercies are over all his works . that he is full of compassion and long-suffering . that he hath no pleasure in the death of the wicked , but that the wicked man turn from his way and live . and a multitude of such declarations we find in the holy scriptures , which abundantly speak the divine will and power to be inseparably conjoyned with righteousness and goodness ; and never in the least to swerve from either . and if any such providences have fallen under our notice at any time , or come to our knowledge , which we have been to seek satisfactorily to reconcile with the rules of righteousness or goodness , we ought to take occasion from thence to be humbled under a sense of our own short-sightedness and shallowness of understanding , and to take great heed how we charge our creator with that , which he hath so often professed to loath and abominate . now let us observe , that this determination of god's will and power from within himself to things just and good , is that which gives a greater lustre to his nature , and far more speaks him the most excellent and most happy being , than his mere unlimitableness by any thing without him . nay , uncontroulableness and absolute soveraignty would make him so much the worse , and less happy being , except the exercise thereof were determined by a holy , good and righteous nature . if god almighty were made up of will , and every thing were in it self indifferent to him , and he did this or that merely because 't is his pleasure so to do , he would ( i say ) be infinitely the worse being , for his absolute sovereignty and uncontroulable power . what is it that makes the devils , the most vile and hateful of all creatures , is it not this , that they are spirits indued with great strength and power , with great knowledge , sagacity and quickness of understanding , and with large dominions , though usurped , but have lost that integrity of nature , and those good principles , whereby they should govern themselves , and be determined in the exercise of their power and wisdom ? 't is certain , they would be nothing so mischievous and wicked as they are , if with the loss of their moral endowments , they had also been divested of their natural : i mean their strength and power , their knowledge and acuteness of understanding . the devils are in these far more like to god , than any of us men are in a possibility of being ( at least in this life ) but notwithstanding this , they are of all his creation the most unlike god ; namely , because their great power and knowledge are utterly unacquainted with , and estranged from , righteousness and goodness ; are altogether employed in most unrighteous and wicked designs and enterprises . so that irresistible power and all-comprehending knowledge are so far from denominating a being the most absolutely perfect considered alone , that that would be the worst being in the world , which is supposed to have those perfections , and is made to be the worst by those perfections , if they do not exert themselves in righteous and good actions , but the contrary : if the exercise of them be not determined by rules and principles of righteousness and goodness . and in saying that a being will be the worse for power and knowledge , &c. separated from goodness , i say also it will be the more unhappy : for the worse any one is , the less satisfaction he must needs take in himself , and the less he will necessarily have of self-enjoyment ; as hath been already shewed . now , considering what hath been said , 't is most apparent that the divine liberty , the most excellent liberty of god himself , is his absolute freedom to good , his being perfectly unbyassed by any evil affection , and infinitely out of the reach of corrupt appetites , so that he can as soon cease to be , as fail to exercise his almighty power , his omniscience and unsearchable wisdom , in doing what is most fit , most right and equal . this is the liberty , which most highly commends the infinitely best of beings , and therefore 't is that which will make us poor mortals most like to him , and partakers of the divine nature . and thus it is sufficiently , i presume , demonstrated , that the most excellent liberty consisteth in , or results from , the observance of the laws of righteousness and goodness . and to shew , that this is eminently ( nay and solely too ) our christian liberty will be the business of the next section . sect . ii. that this freedom to holy obedience and true goodness , or which consisteth in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness , is our christian liberty . this phrase christian liberty being so much in the mouths of people professing christianity , one would think that nothing is better understood ; that there is no point of our religion in the nature of which we less need to be instructed . we mightily insist upon our christian liberty , a very warm zeal we seem to have for it , and we are not a little concerned ( as hath been already intimated ) when we apprehend it to be invaded , or in the least infringed . and if we be not mistaken in our notion of this liberty , 't is most commendably done of us to contend earnestly for it , to refuse to part with it , or to consent to the smallest violation or abatement thereof upon any terms whatsoever . but alas , nothing is more misunderstood than christian liberty , and nothing hath been more abused ; and therefore 't is well worth our while rightly to state the notion of it , and to fix it where it ought to be . how it hath been mistaken and abused shall be shewn in its due place , our immediate business is , first , to demonstrate the foresaid proposition . secondly , to shew what our lord hath done to instate us in this our christian liberty . chap. v. the foresaid proposition demonstrated by four arguments , viz. first , that this hath been proved to be the most glorious liberty . secondly , this was that liberty , the instating us wherein , was the whole business of our saviour and his apostles . thirdly , our saviours abolishing the ceremonial law was chiefly designed in order to the thorough effecting this liberty : where it is shewed , that this law accidentally became very prejudicial to the great design of setting men free from the power of their lusts , in several particulars . fourthly , that none but the jews were obliged to the observance of this law. first , we will demonstrate the truth of this assertion , that christian liberty consisteth in freedom to holy obedience , in deliverance from the power and dominion of sin , together with the direful effects and consequents thereof : this we will do by these following arguments . first , this is , as we have shewed , incomparably the best and most glorious of liberties , and therefore it must needs be ( at least principally and in the most eminent sence ) our christian liberty . for whatsoever benefits our blessed lord is any where said to have procured for us , the absolutely best of the kind is always to be understood . for instance , whereas he saith , that he is come that we might have life , he means the best of lives , the spiritual life of the soul here , and eternal life hereafter . by the riches he is said to bestow , is meant those whereby the soul is inriched , the divine graces and virtues , called by himself the true riches . by the salvation which he is the author of , is meant that from the worst of evils principally , and everlasting salvation . so proportionably , whenas the son is said to make us free , the meaning is free with the best of freedoms , viz. that from sin , as also we have seen is manifest from the context . whenas christ is said to be anointed , according to the prophecy of esay concerning him , to preach deliverance to the captives , and to set at liberty them that are bruised ( with being long fettered and shackled ) we are likewise to understand the same most desirable of all liberties and deliverances . whereas s. iames calls the gospel the law of liberty ( chap. . . ) and the perfect law of liberty , ( chap. . . ) we are primarily to understand it ( as will be further shewn ) of this same liberty which infinitely surpasseth all other . in which sence the apostle s. paul understood it to be the perfect law of liberty , when he called it the law of the spirit of life , which is in christ iesus , adding that , it had made him free from the law of sin and death , rom. . . secondly , we find this liberty was that , the instating us wherein , our saviour , when he was in the world , and his apostles after him , were altogether bent and intent upon . the business of making men holy and obedient to the laws of righteousness , they had not only mostly in their eye , but all they did was subordinated thereunto . all those powerful means that were used to perswade the world that iesus is the christ , were in order to this end : for the son of god was manifested to take away our sins ; and to destroy the works of the devil , john . , . therefore is faith so highly commended , and so much ascribed thereto , and men so excited to believe in christ , or to believe his gospel , because the doctrine , precepts , promises and threatnings therein contained have a great aptness and tendency , are of mighty force and efficacy , to the thorough reformation of our lives , and the cleansing our natures from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit : because that faith which is terminated upon those objects is such a shield , as whereby we shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one : because it is most effectual to the purifying of the heart , and the overcoming of the world . in short , christ gave himself for us that he might redeem us from all iniquity , and purifie to himself a peculiar people zealous of good works , titus . . he died for all , that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves ( to the drudging service of their lusts ) but unto him that died for them , and rose again , cor. . . or , that they should be his servants , that is , his free-men ; according to that of s. paul , cor. . . he that is called being a servant is the lords free-man . he gave himself for the church , that he might sanctifie and cleanse it , by the washing of water by the word ; that he might present it to himself a glorious church , not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing , but that it should be holy and without blemish , ephes. . , . he his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree , that we , being dead to sins , should live unto righteousness , pet. . . or as s. paul saith , rom. . . that being dead we might be freed from sin : that is , that being dead to it , we might be freed from the bondage we were in under it . or , as we have it , ver . . that being made free from sin , we might become the servants of righteousness . our saviour required nothing of us , forbad nothing to us , but what was apparently designed in order to our deliverance from sin , the making us pure in heart , and holy in all manner of conversation . he gave us not a promise , but what was to encourage us hereunto , nor yet a threatning , but what was intended to scare us from the serving of one lust or other . and the apostle tells us , that the whole of the gospel , or , the grace of god that brings salvation is designed to teach us , that , denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world , tit. . , . 't is sufficiently evident from this little that hath been said , that the setting us free from sin , and the making us free to righteousness was the business which took up our blessed saviour's time and thoughts when he was upon the earth , and wherein his holy apostles were employed after his departure : and therefore this must necessarily be our grand christian liberty . abundantly more might have been said upon this argument , but we have heretofore copiously handled it in another treatise . thirdly , our saviours abrogating the ceremonial law , his freeing from that yoke , was mainly designed in order to the thorough effecting this freedom and liberty . this was a yoke which the apostle peter saith , neither they nor their fathers were able to bear , acts . . it was a yoke of bondage , as s. paul calls it , gal. . . stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , and be not intangled again with the yoke of bondage . this liberty ( as appears by his discourse both before and after ) was that which christ had given them from the burdensome services of the mosaical dispensation . and diverse other places there are which speak of this liberty as an effect and fruit of the death of christ. now it is worthy our observation , that the great reason wherefore our saviour did put an end to the obligation of this law , and why the apostles , especially s. paul , insisted so much upon it , and so earnestly cautioned the jewish believers against intangling themselves again with this yoke , was because it became very highly injurious to the grand evangelical design of setting men perfectly free from their lusts : because it gendered to that spiritual bondage , in deliverance from which consisteth our best liberty . for this law understood carnally , and according to the letter only , ( which it ought not to have been ) was very apt to beget a sordid and low spirit , a temper of mind very much estranged from true piety and goodness . and it is too unquestionable , that the iews generally had no higher a sense of it . the law , the author to the hebrews saith , made nothing perfect , chap. . . it gave no man freedom from the power of sin , no power to subdue corrupt affections was obtainable thereby ; it did not make men truly and internally righteous , but only ritually and externally . as the most eminently good men under the law did fall far short of the apostles of our saviour , and those whose lives have been most answerable to the christian precepts , so those degrees of virtue and goodness they did attain to were not owing the law , but to the covenant made with abraham , which was the same for substance with the gospel covenant . the law is said to be weak through the flesh ; or in regard of the impetuosity and violence of mens fleshly appetites , rom. . . nor is there any express mention in the ceremonial law of any necessity of purity of heart : this was only represented by the divers legal washings , and other rites ; the mortification of corrupt affections was signified by the cutting off the foreskin of the flesh , and the great substantial duties were veiled under dark shadows . so that a man might be very punctually observant of this law , according to the mere literal sence thereof , and yet his soul remain perfectly under the power of sinful affections . and the learned mr. chillingworth in his sermon on gal. . . saith thus even of the moral duties of the two tables , as they are part of the mosaical jewish law , viz. that they required only an external obedience and conformity to the affirmative precepts thereof , and an abstaining from an outward practice of the negative . they did not reach unto the conscience , no more than the national laws of other kingdoms do . so that , for example , when the law of moses forbids adultery upon pain of death , he that should in his heart lust after a woman , could not be accounted a transgressor of moses his law , neither was he liable to the punishment therein specified : whereas the gospel requires not only an outward , and , as i may say , corporal obedience to god's commandments , but also an inward sanctification of the soul and conscience upon the same penalty of everlasting damnation with the former . and what is now said ( proceeds he ) of the moral precepts ( as they are part of moses his law ) by the same proportion likewise , is to be understood of the iudicial . and as for the promises of this law they were only of temporal good things , and therefore the gospel is called by the author to the hebrews , the bringing in of a better hope , chap. . . and is said to be established upon better promises , chap. . . 't is confessed that promises of heavenly things were contained in those of earthly , as some of the latter were types of the former , particularly the land of canaan of the eternal rest in heaven ; and the promises of good things in the general had those of the other life implied in them ; but there is not the least express mention in this law of any life after this : i do not say , in any part of the old testament , but in this law. now then , seeing it abounded with temporal promises , and none but such being in express terms contained therein , 't is no wonder if it became an occasion to the sensual iews of their being the more eager and vehement in prosecuting the profits , honours and pleasures of this life , as it was of their being the more mercenary in their obedience . the like may be said of the threatnings of this law , they are all so expressed as if they were only of present , temporal evils , and the iews , for the most part , looking no farther than the outward letter of these threatnings , it was not to be expected that they should be excited by them to obey from any higher motive than the mere fear of such evils ; as those that did not look beyond the letter of the promises were obedient only from the hope of some sensual , present good : and by this means especially did this law gender to bondage , as we read it did , gal. . . the terrible manner in which the law was given , and the threatnings of present death or other temporal calamities upon the transgression thereof did occasion that slavish sear , which the apostle calls the spirit of bondage , in those words , ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear , rom. . . god dealt with the iews as it was most fit to deal with such a carnal , such a stiff-necked , stubborn and disingenuous people ; who would not be wrought upon and overcome by love to himself , or a sense of the loveliness of virtue and true goodness , nor regard any laws , but such as were enforced with severe present penalties , or promises of sensual good things : which obedience of theirs was most truly and properly the obedience of slaves , a servile and mercenary obedience . so that this law having been abused by the iews to the so much the more captivating them to their fleshly lusts , for this reason chiefly was it laid aside , namely , because the liberty which consisteth in a thorough compliance with the rules of righteousness , the obligation of this law would have greatly obstructed the promoting of . and the things expresly required in this law being such as had no internal goodness in them , being weak and beggarly elements , as the apostle calls them , gal. . . the imposition of many such must needs be apt to call away mens minds and affections from those that are essentially and immutably good , whilest the spiritual meaning of those injunctions is either not understood or not attended to . and that it had this effect upon the generality of the iews , by this means , is a case too plain to need to be proved . and though the great substantial duties , which are in their own nature good and necessary , and of eternal obligation , were inculcated upon them by all their prophets , as well as taught by natural light , such as doing iustice , loving mercy , walking humbly with god , and the like , yet they generally were so sottish as to think that he valued sacrifices , and the other ceremonial and external performances of the law so much above such duties ( nay , though he had expresly also declared the quite contrary ) as that their exact and diligent observation of those would make expiation for their remisness in these , and fully satisfie for gross immoralities . they trusted in lying words , saying , the temple of the lord , the temple of the lord , the temple of the lord are these ; implying that their continual attendance on the services there performed , according to the prescription of the law , would effectually secure them from divine vengeance , although they refused to amend their ways , and were never so immoral in their practices . and their constant trading in sacrifices , in rituals and ceremonial things , occasioned their having but very little sense of things morally good ; so that that distinction was almost lost among them , of things positively and morally so , or things good only because commanded , and things commanded because good . their being so intent upon a many little things caused them to sleight and overlook the great ones , as our saviour told the pharisees , luke . . ye tithe mint and rue , and all manner of herbs , and pass over judgment and the love of god. and mat. . . ye pay tith of mint and anise , and cummin , and have omitted the weightier matters of the law , judgment , mercy and faith . and their omitting these things was too plain an argument alone ( though there is other proof of it ) of their having scarcely any notion of things absolutely , immutably and essentially good and evil , which was occasioned ( as i said ) by their minds being so employed about things which were in themselves neither good nor evil , but only by reason of divine injunctions and prohibitions . not that this great evil was necessarily occasioned thereby ( god forbid we should think so ) but 't was through their own default ; otherwise there could have been no truly good people among them , as there were innumerable : just as we see at this day , there are too many of a certain profession , who , by means of their continual dabling in matter , are of so gross and course intellectuals , that they seem almost uncapable of any idea and conception of things immaterial and incorporeal . which is a great unhappiness but as great a fault . so that , this we have now said suggests to us another reason for the putting a period to the ceremonial law , in order to the introduction of that excellent and divine liberty , which we assert to be eminently christian liberty ; because that the love of righteousness and goodness under that notion is necessary thereunto , as shall be farther shewn hereafter . and it is an evidence of a soul imprisoned in sense , and sunk in selfishness to love virtue and goodness , merely for its dowry and the external advantages that accrue by it , and not for its own sake : as also to avoid sin , only for the sake of the uneasie and sad circumstances that attend it , having no sense of its moral turpitude . lastly , whereas i have shewed , that by the observation of the laws of righteousness and goodness a man is delivered from all immoderate self-love to his own bodily and particular concerns , and acquireth that generosity and nobleness of spirit whereby he is carried forth and enlarged to the love of god in the first place , and a hearty concern for the general welfare of his fellow-creatures , the iews by the occasion of the forementioned law , became less free , as freedom is opposed to confinement . for they being paled in and separated from the rest of the world by a religion peculiar to themselves ; and it being forbidden by their law to contract marriages , or have any intimacy , and that they should so much as eat with the gentiles ( though 't was but necessary they should be so restrained for the more effectual preventing their falling into idolatry , and being infected with their other wicked customs and corrupt manners , to which they were naturally very strangely inclined , yet ) by this means they generally became wofully narrow-spirited and contracted in their love , and took occasion from hence to banish all from their kindness and charity , that were not of their own nation and their own religion . and therefore for this reason also it was highly fit that our saviour should take off all future obligation to the observance of this law ; his design being to ampliate and enlarge mens minds by the most universal and unlimited charity ; in imitation of himself , who was a propitiation not only for the sins of the iewish nation , but also of the whole world. and for this reason particularly s. paul tells the ephesians , this law was abolished , chap. . , , . for he is our peace , who hath made both one ( jews and gentiles ) and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us , having abolished in his flesh the enmity , even the law of commandments , contained in ordinances ( or , having abolished by his sufferings the ceremonial law , which was such a make-bate between the iews and gentiles ) for to make himself of twain one new man , so making peace . and that he might reconcile both unto god in one body on the cross , having slain the enmity thereby . and that in the general , the great work of setting men perfectly at liberty from the power of their lusts , and the making them free to all holy obedience was designed by the nullifying this law , is asserted by the apostle , rom. . , . for when we were in the flesh ( or under those carnal ordinances ) the motions of sin , which were by the law , did work in our members , to bring forth fruit unto death . but now we are delivered from the law , that being dead wherein we were held , that we should serve in newness of the spirit , and not in the oldness of the letter . that is , when we were under the law , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or sinful affections , which were heightned thereby ( through our own blindness in not looking beyond the letter of the law ) did so work in us , as to render us so much the more obnoxious to death : but now we are delivered by our saviour christ from that law , it being dead , or abrogated , that in stead of a mere external obedience , and a company of bodily washings , we should for the future be inwardly pure and spiritually obedient . to conclude this argument : wheresoever we find liberty or freedom mentioned throughout the new testament , as that which belongeth to us under the notion of christians , as that which we are beholden to the gospel dispensation for , it is still , i dare affirm , to be understood either of liberty from sin ( the power and the punishment thereof ) or of liberty from the ceremonial and purely mosaical law. this i assert upon a particular consideration of all those texts , wherein any thing is said relating to liberty : and therefore this latter deliverance being principally intended in order to the former , the former , viz. that from sin , must necessarily be the christian liberty . fourthly , none but the israelites were obliged to the observance of this law. indeed in order to a gentiles partaking of the iewish priviledges in the land of canaan , it was necessary he should be circumcised and become ( as their phrase was ) a proselyte of iustice , and so make himself a debtor to the whole law : but it was not necessary to his acceptance with god and eternal happiness to yield obedience to this law. it was sufficient for him to worship the true god and renounce idolatry , and to follow the dictates of the law of nature . even the iews themselves , as ill affected as they were towards the gentiles , did acknowledge no more to be necessary , than the observation of the seven precepts of noah , to their having their part in seculo futuro ; and therefore they permitted the proselytes of the gate to worship in the outward court of the temple . which was therefore called atrium gentium & immundorum . the court of the gentiles and the vnclean . and thus , as it appears from the three foregoing arguments , that liberty from sin and to righteousness is the eminent christian liberty , which is procured for the world taking in the iews , so from this fourth 't is as evident , that it is the only christian liberty which is procured and purchased for us gentiles . there is no other liberty mentioned either by our saviour or his apostles , besides this from the power and dominion of sin ( wherein we always include deliverance from the sad consequents thereof ) which we gentiles are obliged to christianity for , or which we are invested with under the notion of christians . chap. vi. what course our lord hath taken to instate us in this liberty shewed in several particulars , viz. that . he hath most fully informed us concerning all the parts and particulars of our liberty . . he hath furnished us with the most potent means , for the gaining of it . . he hath purchased a rich supply of grace and strength , to enable us to use these means successfully . . he hath laid before us the most powerful motives and arguments to prevail on our wills to make use of this strength , and comply with this grace . having , i hope , sufficiently cleared the truth of this proposition , that our christian liberty ( both mainly and wholly ) consisteth in freedom to holy obedience , and deliverance from sin , i now come to shew , secondly , how christ instates men in this liberty , or what course he hath taken for the effecting hereof . by the way , we are to take notice that the method our lord hath made choice of , for the setting us free from our corrupt affections , is such as is most suitable to the nature of those that are to be delivered , and such as is most suitable to the nature of that bondage and slavery from which he delivers . those who are to be delivered being reasonable creatures , voluntary and therefore free agents , who act not by mere necessity of nature , or blind instincts , and much less from external force and compulsion , he dealeth with them , in setting them free , as with such a sort of creatures . again the slavery ( as also the confinement ) from which he delivers being spiritual not corporal ; i mean , being originally in the mind , will and affections , and not in the outward man , he hath accordingly applied himself to the effecting our deliverance . so that our deliverer hath not done all for us that is to be done , and left nothing for us to do , in order to our being set free . nor can this be said of any other who designs to deliver out of bondage or prison persons arrived at years of discretion , and that are able to use their hands and legs . such a one accounts that he hath done abundantly enough , when he hath paid the slaves ransom , and removed the necessity he was under of continuing in servitude ; if afterward he will not stir a foot , he doth not think himself obliged to hale him by main force out of the gallies or house of bondage . he also looks upon his work as done , when he hath set the prison doors wide open , and hath cleared the prisoner's passage out , and put the key into his hand for the unlocking his fetters , and offered to assist him if he cannot do it by his own strength : but when all this is done , if the prisoner will do nothing towards his own escape , he , who hath done thus much in his behalf , will think it great pity but that there he should lie . there is no prince but will be satisfied that he hath quitted himself bravely , and fully performed the part of a deliverer , when he hath put weapons into the hands of a conquered people , and furnished them with sufficient aids for the rescuing themselves from the tyranny of their oppressors ; but if after all , they will not be perswaded to use their weapons , and are so dastardly as not to joyn with those forces that are sent for their help , he nevertheless deserves the title of a deliverer . in like manner , it is not our blessed saviour's method to drag men with irresistible force out of their spiritual vassallage and slavery : he doth not deliver us against our wills , nor in such a manner as if we were creatures that have no wills ; nor doth so overpower our wills ( at least ordinarily ) as that they shall have left them no power of resistance , but be necessitated to give their consent . but this is the course he hath taken , which is the most wise , and in its own nature the most admirably effectual . first , he hath fully informed us concerning all the parts and particulars of our liberty . secondly , he hath directed us to the most potent means for the gaining thereof . thirdly , he hath purchased a rich supply of grace and strength to enable us to use these means successfully . fourthly , he hath laid before us the most powerful motives and arguments imaginable to prevail with our wills to use this strength , to comply with this grace . first , he hath fully informed us concerning all the parts and particulars of our liberty : i mean , he hath instructed us in all those rules of righteousness and goodness , in the observance of which consists our best and most desirable liberty . this he hath done by the precepts he hath given us , as also by the example he hath set before us . in matthew . , . he proposeth both these , the one to be obeyed , the other to be followed , in order to the possessing our selves of this liberty : come unto me ( saith he ) all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and i will give you rest . and what he meaneth by coming unto him he tells us in the next words , take my yoke upon you , or obey my precepts , and learn of me , or follow my example , for i am meek and lowly in heart , and ye shall find rest unto your souls : rest from the slavish drudgery of sinful affections . as to our saviours precepts , whatsoever he hath required of us , it is either a part of our liberty , or a means for the gaining and maintenance thereof . now as to the christian precepts which oblige us to those things in the doing of which our liberty consisteth , as they incomparably excel the precepts of whatsoever religion was before or since the coming of our saviour , so there is nothing defective or wanting in them . there is not any thing left out of them that is necessary to the completing of the freedom and happiness of our souls . all the defects of the mosaical law , and of the law of nature , are supplied and made up by them . as our lord came not to destroy the law , so he came to fulfil it : to perfect it and fill it up , as he himself hath told us , matth. . . there is nothing that conduceth to the restoring humane nature to its primitive perfection , to the bringing every thing in man into due order , to the effecting a complete harmony and agreement between his various disagreeing powers and faculties , to the putting him into that state wherein every thing would be with him as his own heart could wish to have it , or ( in one word ) to the making him partaker of the god-like nature , and consequently of the god-like liberty , freedom and blessedness ; there is nothing , i say , conduceable to these excellent purposes , but our saviour hath in his own person , when he was on earth , and by his apostles since he left the world , acquainted us with it , over and over inculcated it , again and again minded us of it , and urged it upon our practice . to speak in the words of the apostle s. paul , phil. . . whatsoever things are true , or remote from insincerity and hypocrisie ; whatsoever things are honest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , venerable and grave ; whatsoever things are just , or exactly agreeable to the rule of doing as we would be done unto ; whatsoever things are pure , or far from all shew and appearance of unchastity ; whatsoever things are lovely , or which tend to secure to us love among men , such as all works of benignity , mercy and charity ; whatsoever things are of good report , or which are apt to procure a good name , and therefore to prevent all the causes of shame , and to give us the greatest freedom and confidence , as before god , so before men too ; if there be any virtue , if there be any thing that is by good men reckoned in the number of virtues ; and if there be any praise , or any thing laudable and praise-worthy : all these things , as the apostle in the general here enjoyneth us to think upon them , so they are very particularly , and as clearly and perspicuously , recommended to us to be carefully observed by us , in the new testament . there is nothing which it becometh us to do or forbear , whether in reference to god , our great creator , governour and benefactor , or to our fellow-creatures , or to our own souls and bodies , but here we find it . again , we may observe all these in our saviour's life also , wherein he set us an example , that we should follow his steps . and it is a most admirable example of piety towards god ( of love to him , trust in him , and submission to his will ) of charity to all men , even his greatest enemies ; and of humility , meekness , temperance , purity , contempt of the world , and heavenly-mindedness . he that shall observe how our blessed saviour lived , cannot be ignorant of any of those laws of righteousness and goodness , which , before his coming , the world was so lamentably , in not a few instances , to seek in the knowledge of , through that blindness which by the customary gratifying their vile affections men had generally contracted . i say , he that is acquainted with the life of our saviour cannot easily be ignorant of any of those laws , although he never understood what particular commands or prohibitions his precepts consist of . so that this is the first thing christ iesus hath done for us in order to our being made free : he hath given us fully to understand what it is to be free , what are those several rules of righteousness and goodness , in compliance with which consists our liberty . secondly , our saviour hath also prescribed most effectual means , by making use of which we shall most certainly obtain and maintain this liberty , that is , obey those laws of liberty which he hath given us . these means are especially : believing himself to be the son of god , and consequently the truth and divinity of his doctrine . hearing his word , and receiving it into honest hearts , or pondering it in our minds , and meditating upon it , with the design of conforming our selves to it . prayer to god in his name , together with faith in his bloud for the remission of our sins , and in his power and goodness , for the subduing our lusts , and the making us obedient to his precepts : that is , for the blessing our endeavours to that end. setting his example before our eyes , which is an excellent means to beget in us a likeness to him , and to our partaking of his spirit and temper . watching over our own hearts , and against temptations . denying our selves , and not indulging our sensitive part. advising in all cases of doubt and difficulty with our pastors and spiritual guides ; whom christ hath given to his church , for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministery , for the edifying of the body of christ , ephes. . . and obeying them which have the rule over us in the lord , they watching for our souls , as those that must give an account , heb. . . which duties were never more neglected , than in this age , to the great scandal of our reformed religion . keeping in the communion of the church : and not forsaking the assembling our selves together ( or our publick assemblies ) as the manner of some is , heb. . . and now is the manner of vast numbers of us , ( though no terms of communion are required that contradict any one text of scripture ) which separation we are too like ere long to pay dear for . the religious observation of the lords day , both in publick and private , is another singular help and advantage ; though few professors of christianity seem now to have any great sense of it , to the great prejudice of their own souls , and the souls of those who are under their charge . and to these add in the last place ( because 't is most convenient to place them here ) the sacraments of baptism and the lord's supper . by baptism we are admitted into the church of christ , and brought into a new state : we are baptized into the name of the father , son and holy ghost , or devoted to their service . and the father , in this sacrament , takes us into his special care , and into the relation of his children , whereas before we were only the children of adam . the son receives us as members of his body the church : we are baptized into one body ( as the apostle speaks , cor. . . ) that body whereof christ is the head. and the holy ghost , who is the author of grace and spiritual life , taketh us for his temples . we are said to receive the holy ghost in baptism , to receive that power and strength from him , which will enable us to mortifie the deeds of the body , and to acquire the divine graces and virtues ; which we shall certainly do , if we refuse not to exert and improve it , when we come to years of discretion , and our faculties are ripe enough for that purpose . in baptism the holy spirit communicates to us the beginnings of a new life , which may afterwards be improved to large measures of virtue and goodness , if we be not wilfully wanting to our selves in the other means . and in the lords supper , as we renew the covenant we made in baptism , to renounce the devil and all his works , &c. so all worthy receivers of that sacrament receive great additions of grace and spiritual strength , are fed with the spiritual food of the most precious body and bloud of christ. and of all the means prescribed for the subduing our lusts , and growing in grace , the frequent receiving the lord's supper is very deservedly accounted the principal . certainly there is not any ordinance wherein sincere souls do so experiment the communications of the holy spirit , by which they are so strengthened with strength in their souls . nor are there any such strong and spriteful christians , any so confirmed and rooted in goodness , in the love of god and their neighbour , and all the christian virtues , as those who take all occasions to attend upon it , with a thankful sense of the infinite love of god and christ to them , and sincerely design in so doing a fuller participation of the divine nature . but this intimation that these two sacraments are conveyances of grace and strength leads me to shew , that , thirdly , our saviour hath moreover purchased for us a rich supply of grace , to enable us to use the forementioned means with happy success . he hath obtained from his father by his perfect obedience , both active and passive , authority to send the holy ghost powerfully to assist us ; and hath assured us that those who ask him shall have him , in those most excellent , and most comfortable words , luke . , , . if a son shall ask bread of any that is a father , will he give him a stone ? or if he ask a fish , will he for a fish give him a serpent ? or if he shall ask an egge , will he offer him a scorpion ? if ye then being evil , know how to give good gifts unto your children , how much more shall your heavenly father give his holy spirit unto them that ask him ? and if any of us want the holy spirit 's assistance , it is certainly because we either pray not at all for it , or not with a sincere and earnest desire that he should root up and destroy every evil affection in our souls ; because we are secretly unwilling to let go some beloved lust or other ; and because we are false to god and our own souls in those things which he hath put into our power . for 't is certain , that not to put forth the power we have already received , and yet complain for want of strength , is to play the hypocrities ; and no wonder if the holy spirit of god doth estrange himself , and withhold or withdraw his blessed influences from such persons . but as for those who are faithful so far as those talents reach , which they are at present intrusted with , our lord hath promised them that more shall be given them . that is the meaning of those words , mark . . he that hath , to him shall be given : that is , that useth what he hath ; for no man properly hath or possesseth what he makes no use of , 't would be the same thing to him to be without it . nay , our lord doth not only promise to him that hath , that more shall be given him , but also that he shall have abundantly more , matth. . . for whosoever hath , to him shall be given , and he shall have more abundance : and he repeats this , chap. . . and if we were not through wilfulness and carelesness wanting to our selves , in putting forth that measure of strength we have , as sure as iesus is the christ we should fully experiment the truth of this promise : we should then feel the divine spirit working in us mightily , as the apostle s. paul saith he did , col. . . the great things that are spoken concerning the spirit , and of what he shall do in the hearts of men , would be then punctually fulfilled in us , and we should be satisfied by happy experience , that they are not mere words ; the holy ghost would not fail to do all that for us , he was sent by our lord to do . it is to be acknowledged with great sadness , that both fleshly and spiritual lusts are exceedingly strong and vigorous even in the generality of those that profess christianity , as well as in others , and no less than in others , that are strangers to our religion : but this never to be enough lamented evil doth not proceed from hence , that grace is denied to the generality , but 't is wholly to be imputed to their receiving the grace of god in vain , and wilfully refusing to comply therewith . it is not at all to be ascribed to the spirits refusing to perform his office in them , or to do in their behalf what doth belong to him , but to their refusing to do their part ▪ this we are as fully assured of from abundance of texts of scripture as we can desire to be . the same is to be said of mens so ordinarily falling again and again into those sins which they frequently pray and resolve and vow against : this is far from being the account of it , that god is not willing to hear their prayers ; for ( as s. iohn speaks , epist. . . ) this is the confidence that we have in him , that if we ask any thing according to his will , he heareth us ; and to ask victory over our lusts is of all petitions most agreeable to his will. this cannot be the reason of it , that the holy spirit refuseth to inforce his preventing ( or prevenient ) with his assisting grace , that he will not assist some persons in the performance of those good resolutions which his preventing grace hath excited in their souls . but this is the true account hereof , viz. such persons are undoubtedly wanting in the use of some necessary means or other for the subduing their lusts ; they do not use all the means our lord hath appointed , and are especially faulty in neglecting particularly the great duty of consideration , they pray , it may be , very frequently and earnestly too , that god would give them strength against this or that corruption , and they add vows to their prayers , but they add not consideration to their prayers and vows , they watch not over themselves , disregard the first motions of their wills , and inclinations of their souls towards the sins or sin they so pray , resolve and vow against , and are not careful to avoid temptations . and as inconsideration is the chiefest cause of unsuccessfulness in the use of means for the subduing of corrupt affections , so the gross neglect of that grand means the lords supper , but now discoursed of ( which i hope in no age , nor among any people professing christianity , was ever so common , as to our great shame it is in this age and this nation ) this gross neglect , i say , is questionless a very great cause of so much non-proficiency in attendance on other ordinances as is complained of . which nonproficiency may well be , notwithstanding the promises of the plentiful effusion of the spirit , and our saviour's purchasing so rich a supply of grace for us . for our saviour is no such friend to negligence and carelesness , as to dispense his grace in such a way and manner , as that it must necessarily be a motive and encouragement to do nothing , or but little our selves : but on the contrary , he so communicates his grace and strength , as to make it a great exciter and quickner of endeavours . of this s. paul assures us , in making god's working in us to will and to do , or his readiness so to do , an argument to perswade us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling , phil. . . lastly , as our saviour hath purchased for us a rich supply of grace for the enabling us to use the means of our deliverance with happy success , so he hath given us the most powerful motives and arguments that can be imagined , to prevail upon our wills to comply and cooperate with this grace . and these arguments are not only proposed outwardly to us in his gospel , but they are also inforced inwardly upon our hearts ( as appears by what hath been now said ) by his holy spirit . that is , they are inforced upon the hearts of all those who will take the pains seriously to consider them . to which consideration likewise the spirit fails not to excite men , till by long grieving him , and very frequent rejecting his good ▪ motions and suggestions , he is , as it were , forced to desist , and depart from them . chap. vii . wherein is discoursed the first of those motives and arguments which are offered in the gospel , to perswade us to use the means prescribed for our deliverance from the power of sin. namely , the love of god in sending his son upon the errand of our redemption . and two most powerful motives implied in this . now the chiefest of those motives and arguments are these that follow . first , the unconceivable love of god expressed in sending his only and eternal begotten son , ultimately upon this errand of redeeming us from the power of sin : and the never to be sufficiently admired love of christ , in so readily taking our nature upon him , condescending to such extremely low circumstances here in the world , and at last submitting to so vile and ignominious , so cruel and tormenting a death , and all this , ultimately i say , for this very end , that of sins and satans slaves we might become his and his fathers free subjects ; for he died , the just for the unjust , that he might bring us to god , pet. . . here we have a two-fold most exciting and wonderfully powerful motive to comply most heartily with the method our saviour hath taken for the setting us free . first , god's sending his own son to be a sacrifice for our sins , without the interposition of which he would not propose terms of reconciliation to sinners , sheweth his infinite hatred of sin , and consequently , that it is a most deadly evil , and hath excessive malignity in it . this is expressed in the most emphatical manner by our saviour's shedding his most precious bloud upon the cross for the expiating of it . and can we have a more constraining motive to do our utmost to be delivered from the dominion of sin , than this , that it is thus demonstrated to be an unspeakable evil ? it hath been shewed , that the death of christ was designed to set us free from the power as well as punishment of sin , and it is apt to effect that end , partly as its extreme hatefulness is thereby discovered and made manifest . by this sacrifice for sin , is it condemned in the flesh , as the apostle saith , rom. . . it is condemned as the vilest and most intolerable thing . the immediate end of christs sufferings was to make atonement for sin , but this way of atonement is a means , a most effectual means , to this farther end , the making us out of love with sin , and perswading us to abandon it as the worst of all evils . of which , i say , we cannot desire greater evidence than this , that no meaner sacrifice might be accepted for the making expiation for sin , than that of the only begotten son of god. secondly , this is as wonderful an expression of the divine love to sinners , as of the divine displeasure against sin. god commendeth his love towards us , in that when we were yet sinners christ died for us , rom. . . and herein did he commend his love in the most wonderful manner that it was possible to commend it . he shewed the exceeding riches of his grace , in his kindness towards us through iesus christ , as we read ephes. . . was that an ordinary love in god the father think we , that moved him to send no less a person upon the business of our redemption , than him who was the brightness of his own glory , and the express image of his person , by whom also he made the worlds ? was that an ordinary love in god the son , that prevailed with him to take the humane nature , and to humble himself in that astonishing manner , and to undergo such direful sufferings for our sake ? or was it not such a love as passeth knowledge ? so s. paul saith it was , and it can be no less . this is such a love indeed , as is rather to be silently admired , than much discoursed of . how hard must needs be that heart which will not be broken by the force of such love as this ! nothing can be imagined to be of such irresistible power over persons not forsaken of all ingenuity , as the consideration of this love. this is the other way whereby the death of christ was designed for the destroying of sin. and in respect of either of these ways , but much more of both , our saviour had good ground for the uttering those words , iohn . . when i am lifted up from the earth , i shall draw all men unto me : he spake of his dying on the cross for mankind , as it follows , this he said signifying what-death he should die . and he here supposeth this his death to contain such forcible arguments to perswade men to cast off the drudgery of sin , and exchange it for his free service , that it must necessarily be happily successful to this end , wheresoever it is seriously thought on , and laid to heart . chap. viii . a seasonable digression concerning the doctrine of vniversal redemption . the antiquity and catholicalness of this doctrine . large citations out of bishop latimer and bishop hooper , expressing their sense of it . and full proof thereof presented out of the h. scriptures . by the way : it is of great importance to be fully satisfied , that no man in the world is excluded from having his share in this propitiatory sacrifice , and that the redemption designed by the death of christ is universal . for if each individual person cannot be assured that he is his saviour , and that he died for him ; if he died not for all , nay , but for a few comparatively ( as those say who deny that he died for all ) then what influence can the consideration of his death have upon the wills of men ? surely the weakest influence that can be , if any at all . indeed how it can rationally have any , seems unintelligible , since those who assert that christ died but for a few comparatively , assert also that those few shall be infallibly at one time or other drawn to him , and christ will not lose any one of them . if this be so , what inducement can we have either from the death of christ , or any other consideration , to concern our selves at all about leaving our sins , and using the means prescribed for our deliverance from the power of them ? for if it so happen that i am one of those few for whom christ died , what need is there of my being concerned about that which is so effectually secured ? what is this but to take christ's work out of his hand ? but if christ died not for me ( as 't is very many to one he did not , if he died for so few ) then all my care is to no purpose . i say , if every one of us cannot be certain that christ died for him , and consequently for all , what motive to obedience can his death be to us ? and if he died but for some , and those some but a very small number compared with those for whom he did not die , and those for whom he died shall be undoubtedly saved , and those for whom he died not shall be undoubtedly damned , then i cannot see how the wisest man on earth can answer this plea of a wicked man for persisting impenitently in his wickedness , viz. if christ died for me i shall be saved , and he will most assuredly at his own time , which to be sure is the best , bring me over to the obedience of his precepts by his omnipotent grace , if that be necessary , in order to my salvation : but if he died not for me , then let me do what i can , it will signifie nothing , my state is unalterable . so that i run no hazard in being careless and neglectful of the concerns of my soul , on supposition of my having an interest in the death of christ ; nor is my case one jot the better for my diligence in using the means of salvation according to my power , on supposition of the contrary . now how can we think , that the gospel doth contain such mighty arguments to perswade us to work out our own salvation , whilest it leaves us utterly unable to answer this plea , that careless people may , and do many of them , make for their carelesness ? and therefore it highly concerns us to beware of that doctrine , which makes christ to die but for some certain persons , as not only most false , but as very dangerous . the truth is , this doctrine could never gain any considerable credit , in any church in the world , for the first fifteen hundred years : 't was broached ( with the other concomitant doctrines ) by one lucidus a presbyter in france , about the year of our lord , of which the pelagian heresie was the occasion , but quickly condemned by two councils , one at arles , the other at lions . about years after , it was ( with the other ) revived by godscalcus , a person of ill fame , but condemned again by a council at mentz . but the doctrine we are defending was asserted , as a point never doubted of , by the fathers of the first years : and is as expresly asserted in the most ancient confessions of the reformed churches beyond sea , and also in the articles , homilies and catechism of our own church . and those three holy martyrs , arch-bishop cranmer , bishop latimer and bishop hooper ( who will be acknowledged by our adversaries in this point , to be most orthodox men ) have as plainly and fully given their testimony thereunto as we can desire . arch-bishop cranmer , in the preface to his book against gardiner hath these words , that christ made a sacrifice and oblation of his body upon the cross , which was a full redemption , satisfaction and propitiation for the sins of the whole world. bishop latimer , in his sermon on the first sunday after the epiphany , tells us , that iesus is an hebrew word , which signifieth in our english tongue , a saviour and redeemer of all mankind born into the world. and he hath this passage in his sermon on the gospel for the twenty first sunday after trinity , p. . of fol. . which would be horribly offensive to many now adays , viz. that christ shed as much bloud for judas , as he did for peter ; peter believed it and therefore was saved , judas would not believe , and therefore he was condemned ; the fault being in him only , and in no body else . bishop hooper , in his preface to his exposition of the ten commandments , saith , that as the sin of adam , without priviledge or exemption , extended and appertained unto all and every of adams posterity ; so did this promise of grace generally appertain as well to every and singular of adams posterity as to adam : as it is more plainly expressed , where god promiseth to bless , in the seed of abraham , all the people of the world. and that these good men did not hold contradictions , but , as they undoubtedly believed that christ died for all , so they also rejected that doctrine of the divine decrees which is inconsistent therewith , is plain from the following passages . bishop latimer saith , in his fourth sermon on the third sunday after the epiphany , that if the most part be damned , the fault is not in god , but in themselves ; for , deus vult omnes homines salvos fieri , god would that all men should be saved , but they themselves procure their own damnation , and despise the passion of christ by their own wicked and inordinate living . here we may learn to keep us from all curious and dangerous questions ; when we hear that some be chosen and some be damned : let us have good hope that we shall be among the chosen , and live after this hope , &c. think that god hath chosen those that believe in christ , and that christ is the book of life , &c. so we need not to go about to trouble our selves with curious questions of the predestination of god. but let us rather endeavour our selves that we may be in christ , for when we be in him , then are we well , and then we may be sure that we are ordained to everlasting life . but you will say , how shall i know that i am in the book of life ? how shall i try my self to be elect of god to everlasting life ? i answer , first we may know , that we may one time be in the book , and another time come out again , as it appeareth by david . see more that follows to the same purpose , fol. . again , in his sermon on septuag . fol. . saith he , god's salvation is sufficient to save all mankind ; but we are so wicked of our selves , that we refuse the same , and we will not take it when 't is offered to us , and therefore he saith , pauci verò electi , few are chosen ; that is , few have pleasure and delight in it , for the most part are weary of it , cannot abide it ; for there are some that hear it , but they will abide no danger , &c. such men are cause of their own damnation ; for god would have them saved , but they refuse it : like judas the traitor , whom christ would have had to be saved , but he refused his salvation , he refused to follow the doctrine of his master christ. and bishop hooper is very full and particular to this purpose in his forecited preface . saith he , cain was no more excluded from the promise of christ , till he excluded himself , than abel ; saul than david ; judas than peter ; esau than jacob : concerning which two brethren , in the sentence of god given to rebecca , there was no mention at all , that esau should be disinherited of eternal life , but that he should be inferior to his brother jacob in this world , which prophecy was fulfilled in their posterity , and not the persons themselves . god is said by the prophet to have hated esau , not because he was disinherited of eternal life , but in laying his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness , mal. . . that threatning of god against esau ( if he had not of wilful malice excluded himself from the promise of grace ) should no more have hindred his salvation , than god's threatning against nineveh : the cause of rejection or damnation is sin in man , which will not hear , neither receive the promise of the gospel , &c. it is not a christian man's part to attribute his salvation to his own free-will , with the pelagian , and extenuate original sin , nor to make god the author of ill and damnation , with the manichee ; nor yet to say , that god hath written fatal laws , and with necessity of destiny , violently pulleth the one by the hair into heaven , and thrusteth the other head-long into hell. i have thus at large transcribed the words of these two holy bishops and martyrs for the reformed religion , because the books are not easie to be met with , and bishop hooper's not to be light on without great difficulty . and , i say , by these citations ( to which we might have added others ) it is very apparent , not only that they undoubtedly believed the doctrine of christ's dying for all men , ( and were zealous assertors of it too ) but also , that they rejected that doctrine of fatal decrees , which is the foundation of the contrary opinion . i cannot but take notice , by the way , how unreasonable and uncharitable those men are , who clamour at such a rate against their brethren , as innovators and apostates from the church of england , for their asserting no worse doctrine , than we have now seen was heartily approved by these ancient and eminent fathers of our church . the doctrine of which church , i presume , they 'l have the modesty to acknowledge , they were as fit judges of as themselves . but i must hasten to that which is much more to our present purpose ; viz. that no doctrine is more clearly or fully asserted in the holy scriptures than this of vniversal redemption . and that there may remain no longer the least doubt or scruple in any of our breasts concerning it , let us take notice of these following particulars . first , how those that have a share in christ's redemption are expressed by our saviour and his apostles . they are expressed by the words sinners indefinitely , the world , all , the whole world , every man. and can the wisdom of man invent more plain , significant and full words , by which to express the universality of mankind ? . those whom christ came , and died to save , that is , to put into a salvable state , so that it will be wholly long of themselves if they perish , are expressed by the word sinners indefinitely . s. paul saith , tim. . . this is a faithful saying , and worthy of all acceptation , that iesus christ came into the world to save sinners , of which i am chief . now 't is a known maxim , that an indefinite proposition is equivalent to an vniversal one . and our saviour himself saith , that he came to call sinners to repentance , luke . . and to seek and save that which was lost , chap. . . he makes no exception of sinners or lost persons , and therefore what can they be less than all mankind ? but if this be not satisfactory , . they are expressed by the word world. our saviour saith , iohn . , . god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life . for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved . i could not disparage any ones understanding more , than by endeavouring to satisfie him , that 't is a most pitiful and senseless shift , to say , that by the world is meant all the elect in the world , that is , some exceeding few of the world in comparison of the rest . for , besides that this is to make nonsence of the former verse , as must needs be obvious to every body , so by taking the same liberty in interpreting other texts , the bible would be made the most insignificant book in the world . the generality of men is ordinarily called the world , and bad men are sometimes so called in scripture , because they are the generality ; but to express the incomparably lesser part of men by the word world , is such a figure as was never heard of . . they are expressed by the word all , to put us more out of doubt , cor. . , . the love of christ constraineth us , because we thus judge , that if one died for all , then were all dead , and that he died for all , that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him that died for them , and rose again . now did ever the word all signifie a few ? and that by all is to be understood the universality is plain from the former of these verses , where the apostle proves that all were dead , or obnoxious to death , by this argument that christ died for all . but we will not question whether all in the largest sence were obnoxious to death , and therefore all must be understood in the same extent , when it is said that christ died for all , or we shall make the apostle a very sad arguer . for how could it follow from hence , that christ died for some , that therefore all without exception were dead ? again , tim. . . we read that christ gave himself a ransom for all : and ver . . that he will have all to be saved , and come to the knowledge ( or acknowledgment ) of the truth . and once more , tim. . . that he is the saviour of all men , but especially of those that believe : so that those that believe are not the all he is the saviour of , the all being distinguished from them . and the meaning of the words is sufficiently obvious , viz. he is so the saviour of all , as to put them into a capacity of salvation , but he is so the saviour of those that believe , as that they shall be actually saved . those that so believe as to obey the gospel are at present in a state of salvation , and if they persevere shall be undoubtedly saved . . those whom christ died for and came to save ( to make it still more out of doubt if it be possible ) are expressed by the whole world , john . . if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father , iesus christ the righteous , who is the propitiation for our sins , and not only for ours , but also for the sins of the whole world. nay , . they are expressed by every man , heb. . . but we see iesus , who was made a little ( or for a little while ) lower than the angels , for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour , that he by the grace of god should taste death , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for every man. and this is the fullest and most comprehensive expression that can be imagined . if after all these most express affirmations , in such variety of the plainest words , it shall still be asserted , that the doctrine of universal redemption is heretical or false , there needs no other reply but this : let christ be true and his holy apostles , and everyman a liar that dares to contradict them . secondly , as our saviour and his apostles do so express the persons for whom he died , as that they must necessarily be the universality of mankind , so we learn from s. paul , that the remedy by christ is of equal extent with the mischief occasioned by adam : that the sore is not so broad but the plaister is every whit as broad : rom. . . therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation , even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men to justification of life . can anything be said plainer than this is , in these words , viz. that as many as fell by the transgression of adam , were designed to be recovered by the righteousness of christ ? but it is objected that it follows in the . ver . that , by the obedience of one shall many he made righteous ; as our saviour himself saith , this is the new testament in my bloud , which was shed for many for the remission of sins . but that this is a strange objection , will appear by comparing the latter part of that . ver . with the former : for as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners . so that , as many were put into a possibility of being justified by the righteousness of christ ( and we do not desire that more should ) as were made sinners ( or made liable to condemnation ) by the disobedience of adam . and by this means , the reign of grace to eternal life was designed to be no more limited , than was the reign of sin to death : as it follows in the . ver . that as sin hath reigned unto death , even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life , by iesus christ our lord. and it is not to be wondered at , that the word many should signifie all , for it is well known , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , many , or the many , is used in other greek authors to signifie all , as well as in the new testament . so that these texts do most necessarily and plainly speak thus much , that none that hear the gospel shall fall short of salvation , but through their unbelief and disobedience , their wilful rejecting the remedy offered them : nor any neither that never heard the gospel , merely for the transgression of their first parents , but only for their own sins , i mean , their wilful disobedience to that light they have . and that none to whom the gospel is preached are excluded from salvation by christ , is manifestly implied in those words of our saviour , iohn . . as moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness , even so must the son of man be lifted up , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life . as the brazen serpent was erected for the cure of all that were stung by the fiery serpent , none excepted but such as would not look up to it , for that end : so none shall be shut out from the benefit designed by the son of man's being lifted up upon the cross , but such as will not believe , that is , apply themselves to him in that way , which he hath appointed for the obtaining of it . and though our saviour saith , ver . . of that chapter , that this is the condemnation , that a light is come into the world : yet he immediately explains himself in the following words , and men loved darkness rather than light , because their deeds are evil . or mens being condemned by the occasion of his coming is to be imputed to their rejecting him , and so refusing to comply with the most reasonable terms of his new gracious covenant , not to his or his father's design in his coming . for he saith , iohn . . i came not to judge the world , but to save the world. thirdly , we are assured that christ died even for those that perish . the apostle saith , cor. . . if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idols temple , shall not the conscience of him that is weak be imboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols , and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish , for whom christ died ? here it is supposed that a man may perish , for whom christ died : and consequently , that he died for reprobates themselves ; that is , those that have made themselves so , for if christ died for all , there can be no other reprobates . again , rom. . . destroy not him with thy meat , for whom christ died . and the author to the hebrews expresly preacheth this doctrine , chap. . . of how much sorer punishment , suppose ye , shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the son of god , and hath counted the bloud of the covenant , wherewith he was sanctified ( or consecrated ) an unholy thing ? s. peter likewise asserts the same , epist. . . but there were false prophets also among the people , even as there will be false teachers among you , who privily will bring in damnable heresies , even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . so that these vile wretches were not destroyed because christ did not redeem them , for they are said to be bought or redeemed by him as well as others , but they brought upon themselves swift destruction . lastly , if this doctrine be false , that christ died for all , then none are or can be condemned for not believing in him , notwithstanding that the condemnation of men is so continually ascribed thereunto . for 't is a plain case , that those for whom christ did not die , can be no more obliged to believe in him , than the devils are . and to say that any are condemned for not doing that which it was not their duty to do , will , i hope , be acknowledged the grossest absurdity . this little in comparison of what might be said , to demonstrate the truth of this great article of our faith , is much more than barely sufficient to give us an undoubted assurance of it . the truth is , the sun doth not shine more bright in the firmament , than doth this doctrine in the new testament : and i know nothing we can be assured of upon scripture authority , if this be false or uncertain . i verily believe that there are few of the greatest points of our christian faith , but may as plausibly be objected against as this doctrine , from scripture . 't is said indeed by our saviour , iohn . . i lay down my life for my sheep : but did he ever say , i lay down my life for none but my sheep ? if he had , we must have concluded , either that the whole world are his sheep , or that which is far worse , that he said and unsaid , and contradicted himself , and so destroyed the foundation of our faith and hope . but in saying he laid down his life for his sheep , his meaning was , that those who obeyed his voice should receive the benefit of his death ; and such sheep he would have all to be . for ( as we have seen in tim. . . ) he would have all men to be saved , and to come to the acknowledgment of the truth . again our saviour saith , that he prayed not for the world , iohn . . from whence some would infer , that surely he would not shed his precious bloud for those on whom he would not vouchsafe to bestow a prayer . but 't is apparent his meaning was , that at that time he peculiarly prayed for his disciples : they only ( as appears by the context ) are meant , by those that his father had given him out of the world. but afterwards , ver . . he proceeds to pray for all that should believe on him through their word : and at his death , he prayed for his very crucifiers . and that he could not refuse to pray for the world , is apparent from ver . . where he prayeth that believers might be one in him and his father , for this reason , that the world may believe that he had sent him : or might be converted to the faith of the gospel . these two objections , as weak as they are , are the chief ones that are taken out of scripture , against the most ancient and catholick doctrine we have been asserting . but i must needs say , i have often wondred at their boldness , who have used their utmost endeavours to run down a doctrine , that not only for so many ages together hath stood unshaken , but is also so abundantly , and in the clearest manner imaginable asserted by truth it self , and those who were guided into all truth : and how they are able not to perceive , how grosly they wrest the holy scriptures ; so that , if they should use the same artifice in interpreting all other texts , they would make the bible to look like a thing that is contrived for the service of every humour and every phancy , and for both the proving and disproving every thing . certainly , if we should take the same liberty in understanding our own and other mens sayings , that they take in expounding the forementioned and the like sayings of our blessed saviour and his apostles , speech would signifie nothing , nay , be of very pernicious consequence , and serve only to abuse and put tricks upon one another . if so many plain texts as can be , to all appearance , should require so much labour and pains to be rightly understood , 't will be impossible to defend the holy scriptures from that obscurity which the papists most injuriously charge them with ; and to preserve the bible from that contempt , which ( the higher to advance the authority of holy church ) it suffers from their prophane tongues and pens , and wicked practices . but this doctrine of vniversal redemption , being so strongly fortified , could never have been assaulted , were it reconcileable with that of absolute reprobation , either in the supra or sublapsarian way ( as it is impossible it should be ) which the too great admirers of the otherwise very judicious and pious calvin , are so exceedingly tenacious and fond of . but 't is much to be wondred at , what these men should see in this doctrine ( which is so severe in it self , and horrid in its necessary consequences ) that they should be contented to buy it at so dear a rate , as the parting with that other most comfortable doctrine . especially since this hath no antiquity to commend it , and is not so much as seemingly befriended , but by a very few texts of scripture , and those very fairly capable of quite another sence , than at first sight may seem to belong to them ; but is contradicted by innumerable plain texts , and the concurrent strain both of the new and old testament . but i must not forget that this chapter is a digression from our main business ; and i have thus long insisted upon this argument , that the great motives contained in the death of christ to exchange the slavery of sin for his free service might have their full weight and cogency : which would be in danger , not only of being weakned , but even quite lost , by limiting the design of christ's death to some particular persons , where the consequences of such a limitation are apprehended . and i appeal to every considerative person , whether it be not a mighty motive and encouragement to the engaging all the powers of our souls in this great work of using the means prescribed for the subduing our lusts , to be assured that every individual person of us is one of those , for whom christ gave himself to redeem them from all iniquity . chap. ix . wherein are contained five more evangelical motives , which are of wonderful power to excite us to diligence in using the means of our deliverance from the dominion of sin , viz. our saviours excellent example . the assurance he hath given us , that he will not take such advantage of our frailties and weaknesses , as to cast us off for them . our saviours mediation and intercession . the glorious reward he hath purchased for , and promised to those , who , by the assistance of his grace , overcome their lusts. and the most dismal threatnings he hath pronounced against those who receive that grace in vain , and will not be delivered from the dominion of sin. having presented you with the first powerful motive to diligence , in using the means of our deliverance from the dominion of sin , namely , the unconceivable love of god in sending his only begotten son upon this errand of delivering us ; and of christ in so readily taking our nature upon him , and dying a cursed death for that end : and having also fully demonstrated , that no man in the world is excluded from the benefit designed by the death of christ , in order to our giving that motive its full force and strength : i proceed to shew , that secondly , another singular motive is our saviour's example . as we are by his example directed in the several parts of our duty , as hath been shewed ; and as the frequent eyeing thereof is a means ( as hath been intimated ) whereby we may be more and more transformed into his likeness ; so is it to be considered as a wonderfully exciting motive to comply with those rules of righteousness and goodness , which we have naturally the greatest aversation of will towards . as particularly , those which oblige us to the meek bearing of indignities , the forgiving the greatest and most provoking injuries , the loving our enemies ; whereby we shall be set free from the cruel tyrants of revenge and malice . those also that oblige us to humility , patience and intire resignation to the will of god , under the severest dispensations of his providence ; and contentation with a mean fortune , and low circumstances in the world ; which will free us from the inslaving passions of pride , anger , immoderate grief , covetousness , &c. when we consider with what admirable evenness of mind , this great prince of the kings of the earth indured the contradiction of sinners against himself ; how , when he was reviled , he reviled not again , when he suffered he threatned not , but committed himself to him who judgeth righteously : when we consider with what strange sedateness of spirit he bore the mockings , buffettings , and most contumelious and insolent behaviour of vile creatures towards himself : it is then hardly possible that we despicable worms should rage and be inflamed upon the account of such disgrace , contempt and ill usage from rude people , as is not to be compared with that which he underwent . when we consider how our blessed saviour forgave those who thirsted after his bloud , and were never satisfied till they had put him to the most shameful and most cruel death ; and not only forgave them himself , but entreated his father , and that even in the midst of his torments ( when his spirit one would think should be most highly exasperated ) to forgive them too : i say , when we consider this , how can it be difficult to disswade our selves from meditating revenge upon any provocations whatsoever ? surely we must needs be very powerfully inclined to forgive our enemies . when we call to mind how he exprest his love to his very murderers , even so as to design the greatest good to them by the means of that , whereby they designed the greatest evil to him , can we be averse to the bearing good will to those who are ill affected towards us , to the blessing of those that curse us , and praying for those that despightfully use us ? when we consider how this mighty person humbled himself , even to the washing his disciples feet , and declared that he came not to be ministred unto , but to minister , can we contemptible wretches cherish the least spark of pride in our souls ? can we despise the meanest of our fellow-creatures , or think our selves too great or too good to condescend to the lowest offices of love whereby we may serve our brethren ? when we consider with what submission to the divine will our blessed lord indured the most exquisite pains both of soul and body , though he never deserved them by the least offence , but was always most perfectly obedient to his father , can this be other than a most forcible motive to us , who have merited so ill at the hands of god , quietly to submit to his good pleasure in afflicting us , whenas in so doing he doth always punish us far less than our iniquities deserve ? when we consider how well satisfied our saviour was to be in poor low circumstances , and not to have so much as a cottage of his own to put his head in , though he was lord of all : is it imaginable that we should aspire at high and great things , and having food and raiment , not be content , who are less than the least of all god's mercies ? and lastly , will not the consideration of our saviour's being such a man of sorrows , and so acquainted with griefs , exceedingly deaden our desires after sensual pleasures ? surely it must necessarily so do . thus we see how greatly exciting the example of our saviour is to the perfect mortifying of those lusts which are most strong and vigorous , to the loathing and abominating those , which are naturally very dear to us , and to the most restless endeavours , to get our souls possessed of those virtues and graces which are most supernatural . thirdly , another very prevalent motive is , the assurance our lord hath given us , that he will not take such advantage of our frailties and weaknesses , or sins we fall into by mere surprize and want of due watchfulness , as to cast us off for them ; so long as we allow not our selves in any evil way , and it is the principal design of our lives , to be conformed in all things to the laws of righteousness . there is a prophecy concerning the messiah , isaiah . . which our saviour applieth to himself , matth. . . a bruised reed shall he not break , and smoaking flax shall he not quench , &c. he will not crush under foot those who fall through weakness , but whatsoever good he seeth in them , he will still cherish . my little children ( saith s. iohn ) these things i write unto you , that ye sin not : but what if , through the weakness of their flesh , they should at any time be overtaken , is their state then desperate ? no , by no means , for it follows , and if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father iesus christ the righteous , &c. epist. . . as there are sins unto death , so there are sins not unto death , according to that of the same apostle , epist. . . all unrighteousness is sin , and there is a sin not unto death . though all unrighteousness be sin , and the deserved wages of sin be death , yet such is the goodness of god through christ , that all sins shall not be unto death , but only wilful and presumptuous sins . and i add , not these neither , if not persevered in , but throughly forsaken . if we were liable to eternal ruine for such faults , as considering all our circumstances in this state , it is scarcely to be hoped we shall constantly avoid , we should necessarily live in great bondage , through continual fear , anxiety and disquieting thoughtfulness : but on the other hand , it conduceth exceedingly to the chearful pursuing our great work , to be satisfied that it is not every failure that shall endanger our final miscarrying . and it is no small inducement to ingenuous tempers , to be so much the more solicitous to avoid deliberate and wilful sins , because god through christ is so ready to forgive , and graciously pass by those that are not such : because he is pleased in his infinite goodness to grant a pardon of course for these , upon condition of their being in the general and habituals repented of . and it is a great motive also to such tempers , to be the more vigilant and watchful against all sins whatsoever ; against sins of daily incursion and infirmity , as well as those which waste the conscience . and those are very ill natured and obdurate sinners , who can find in their hearts to encourage themselves by this indulgence to sin the more freely . fourthly , another wonderful encouragement to the careful use of the means , we are directed to for the subduing of our lusts , is our saviours mediation and intercession . there is one god and one mediator between god and men , the man christ iesus . his oblation was begun on earth , but perfected in heaven ; where he appears in the presence of god for us , heb. . . those prayers we put up in his name , for things agreeable to the divine will , with honest and sincere hearts , our saviour inforceth with his own intercession . he ever lives to make intercession for us , heb. . . and for this reason ( as the apostle saith in the former part of that verse ) he is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto god by him : that is , to give them a full and complete deliverance from the slavery of sin , and all the evil consequents thereof . now we know that we ask what is according to the will of god , when we pray for his grace to mortifie our corruptions , and to set us more and more free from their dominion : this is the will of god , even our sanctification , &c. thess. . . there are many temporal good things , which god in his infinite wisdom may see not to be good for us ; but he knows that whatsoever hath a necessary influence into our soul's welfare , and the making us partakers of his own image and likeness , can by no circumstances whatsoever become unfit to be bestowed on those that heartily and sincerely seek it . and therefore we are assured that those prayers that are put up for such things , with a true heart and full assurance of faith in his power and goodness , are seconded in heaven by our blessed lord : and him the father heareth always , john . . we have shewed that our saviour hath purchased a rich supply of grace to help our weakness , and that his holy spirit is promised to those that ask him ; who will not fail to assist them , whilest they carefully exert that power they are already in possession of : but the most honest souls have so frequent experience of heaviness , dulness and distractions in their addresses to god , that they would be in great danger of despairing of the success of their prayers , but for this consideration , that they have a no less friend in heaven , than the only begotten son of god ; who is most powerful with his father , and supplies all the defects of their prayers by his own intercession in their behalf . i need not say , what a marvellous incouragement this is of our faith and hope in the divine goodness ; which are so necessary to animate us , and to put spirit and life into all our endeavours . and the mediation and intercession of our blessed saviour conduceth exceedingly to the overcoming those inslaving passions of fearfulness and shame , which arise from guilt ; and do naturally cause a great averseness in sinners from going into the presence of god , and disable them , when they are there , to behave themselves as they ought before him . s. paul tells the ephesians , that in christ iesus they have boldness and access with confidence , by the faith of him . that is , through christ's mediation those believing gentiles ( of whose calling he was discoursing ) as great sinners as they had been , even dead in trespasses and sins , have liberty of approach to god , with confidence of a kind reception and a gracious acceptance . and the author to the hebrews , chap. . , &c. doth thus encourage sincere souls to draw near to god. having therefore , brethren , boldness ( or liberty , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to enter into the holiest by the bloud of iesus , by a new and living way , which he hath consecrated for us , ( in opposition to the dead shadows under the law ) through the veil , that is to say , his flesh : ( breaking through the veil of his flesh , being fain to die before he ascended into heaven ) and having an high priest over the house of god : let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith ; having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience , and our bodies washed with pure water . that is , being sincerely resolved against all sins both of heart and life : as none that had touched any unclean thing under the law , till the priest had sprinkled them with pure water , had liberty to enter into the congregation . fifthly , the reward , which our saviour hath purchased for and promised to those that shall get free from the power of their lusts , is another motive , than which a more powerful one is not to be imagined . he hath promised that such shall be with him where he is . that because he lives , they shall live also . hath assured them , that he is gone to heaven before , to prepare a place for them : that he is entered thither as their forerunner : that they shall behold the glory there which his father hath given him ; and that they shall be sharers also with him in that glory : that they shall sit with him upon his throne , rev. . . to him that overcometh will i grant to sit with me upon my throne , even as i also overcame , and am set down with my father on his throne . that the righteous shall shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of the father , matth. . . that their dead bodies also , being raised again , shall be fashioned like to his own most glorious body , according to the mighty working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself , phil. . . of this glory it is impossible we should speak much in this state worthily of it ; it far surpasseth our most elevated con●eptions , and therefore our highest expressions must needs fall excessively short of it . it doth not yet appear what we shall be , saith s. iohn , epist. . . only we know so much of the heavenly bliss , as to be assured that it is astonishingly great ; for , as it follows , this we know , that when he appears we shall be like him ( like him the infinitely holy and happy being , in his holiness and happiness ) for we shall see him as he is . which implieth such a clear , distinct and vigorous knowledge of his most glorious perfections , as will transform the soul into his own nature , and fill it with his own blessedness , to the utmost extent of its capacity . could we now apprehend this blessedness in any proportion to its transcendent greatness and excellency , we should have no more spirit left in us ; as it is said of the queen of sheba , when she beheld the magnificence of solomons court. indeed there is such an account given us of the happiness prepared for good men , that we should find it impossible to believe it , but that god which cannot lye hath promised it , and that it is the purchase of a most inestimable price , the bloud of his eternally begotten son. and we have so great evidence of its being promised by his father , and purchased by himself , given us by our blessed lord , that our own hearts can't wish for greater ; nay , such as we could not have asked any comparable to it , might we have had our own choice of evidence , viz. his innumerable miraculous works , his resurrection from the dead , his ascension into heaven ; and afterwards ( exactly according to his promise ) his sending the holy ghost . we have not more evidence that iesus is the son of god , than we have that all his sincere disciples shall live with him , in unspeakable and eternal blessedness ; for we have the self - same for both . the same arguments which have abundantly demonstrated the truth of the former proposition , do equally prove the latter , for they depend mutually upon each other ; as s. paul hath shewed in cor. . , . if there be no resurrection of the dead , then is christ not risen : and if christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also vain . that is , there will be no resurrection of the dead . now of what mighty force and efficacy are the exceeding great and precious promises of such a glorious state as this , to engage all the powers of our souls in the pursuance of that holiness which is not only an indispensable condition to precede the obtaining of it , but like a necessary qualification for it . the happiness which will naturally , by proper , efficiency and necessary consequence , result from our deliverance from the dominion of sin , and our being instated in the freedom we have discoursed of , would be a mighty motive to the doing our utmost to be set at liberty : what a motive then is this vast additional happiness which our lord hath given us the most unquestionable assurance of ? we can never be sufficiently affected with those words of the apostle , rom. . , . what fruit had ye then of those things , whereof ye are now ashamed ; for the end of those things is death . but now being made free from sin , and become servants to god , ye have your fruit unto holiness , an● the end everlasting life . can we have such a hope as this , such a blessed hope ( as the apostle calls it ) and not heartily endeavour to purifie our selves as god is pure ? s. iohn tells us , that he who hath this hope will do so . hath our most gracious lord made to his free servants such a promise as this of entering into his rest , his glorious and eternal rest , how should we fear , lest by continuing in subjection to our vile affections , we should at last fall short of it ? good lord ! . that such a prize as this should be set before us , and we not press hard forward towards it . that such blessedness should be purchased for , and offered to those , who have no esteem or value for it . but had much rather be wretched bondslaves and vassals to the devil and their lusts , than reign with christ in his everlasting kingdom . how many shall lament this inexpressible folly in a sad eternity ! and this brings me to the last motive i shall speak to , viz. sixthly , if it be possible , that this with the foregoing motives should not prevail , there is another behind , which is suited to the most disingenuous , stubborn and inflexible tempers , and must needs subdue them , if any thing will : namely , the most dismal threatnings our saviour hath pronounced against those , who will not accept the liberty he offereth them , and become his freemen . as such will be necessarily exceedingly miserable , beyond what they are here , when they leave this world , through the fury of their corrupt appetites ( there being no objects in the other state to appease it , or to afford them the least satisfaction or gratification ) so our lord hath declared , that , they shall be cast into outer darkness , where shall be weeping , and wailing , and gnashing of teeth , matth. . . that , they shall be cast into a furnace of fire , matth. . . that , he will say unto them at the last day , depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the devil and his angels , matth. . . and his apostle s. paul hath told such , what their doom shall be , in thess. . , , . viz. that the lord iesus shall be revealed from heaven , with his mighty angels , in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god , and obey not the gospel of our lord iesus christ : who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power : when he shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired of all them that believe . then shall we discern the vastest difference imaginable between the states of the righteous and the wicked , of those who have through the spirit mortified the deeds of the body , and those who have lived after the flesh . the former sort of men , as the same apostle saith , shall live ; that is , a most inexpressibly happy and glorious life : the latter shall die ; that is , the second death , or be eternally miserable . one shall be taken , and the other left : one shall be saved , the other damned : one shall be received into the blessed mansions above , and crowned with immortal bliss and glory ; the other shall be tumbled down into hell , and have his portion in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone . did i say , that these fearful threatnings are designed to awaken the most disingenuous , stupid and obdurate souls ? i fear there are few who do not find , that they have need sometimes of seriously considering them , and laying them to heart . and when we feel the principle of ingenuity most unactive , as also that those motives that excite our hope have but a weak influence ( as it is possible we may , at certain times , be in so dull and heavy a temper , as that we may be but very little affected with them ) then should we rouse up our selves out of our lethargick stupidity , by employing our thoughts upon the terrors of the lord , the most terrible threatnings of the gospel . and now what think we ? hath not our blessed lord done abundantly enough to make us free indeed ; to set us at liberty from sin and to righteousness ? in that he hath not only shewn us what it is to be made free , and wherein our liberty consisteth ; and given us the best means , by the use of which , as we ought , we shall be set at liberty ; and purchased such grace for us as whereby we may be successful in the use of those means , if we will not neglect them ; but also hath given us such motives , as those we have now discoursed of , to prevail with our wills not to receive that grace in vain . and as for these motives , can the heart of man conceive any more powerful ? no surely , nor could it , unassisted by divine revelation , conceive any that are the thousandth part so powerful . but besides all this ( as hath been intimated ) the blessed spirit of god is ready so to inforce these motives upon us , if we will endeavour to think seriously upon them , as that they shall effectually do what they are designed for : and not only so , but he also begins with us , and by his secret suggestions excites us to the due consideration of them , and the use of whatsoever means we are directed to , for the pulling down of strong holds , and casting down every imagination , and every high thing , that advanceth it self against the scepter and government of christ in our souls , and the bringing every thought , and all that is within us , to the obedience of christ. and thus doth he work in us both to will and to do , as to do so to will , of his own good pleasure : or , of his free and undeserved mercy to us . and therefore what encouragement have we to put the apostles inference from that doctrine into practice , namely , to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling ? that is , to work out our own deliverance from the dominion of sin , and our slavish subjection thereunto , with great diligence and solicitude . sect . iii. containing the inferences from each of the arguments of the foregoing sections . chap. x. which treats of the first inference from the first proposition , [ that the most excellent liberty doth consist in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness ; or in freedom from the dominion of sinful affections . ] namely , that those are most vnreasonable and depraved people , who complain of the divine laws as intolerable intrenchments upon their liberty . where it is shewed , first , that upon supposition our liberty were restrained by the laws of god , it would nevertheless be most unreasonable to complain upon that account . secondly , that the laws which oblige christians do not restrain their liberty . i am come now to the last head of discourse , viz. to draw distinctly from each of the arguments of the foregoing sections several very useful inferences : such as , if they be duly considered , will farther improve us in our knowledge of the true nature and design of the christian religion ; and ( with the assistance of the divine grace ) advance us higher in the true evangelical spirit and temper . to begin with the former of those arguments , viz. that the most excellent liberty consisteth in an intire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness ; or in freedom from the dominion of corrupt and sinful assections . from hence , and what hath been discoursed thereupon , we infer , first , that those are most unreasonable , and very sadly depraved who complain of , and quarrel with the divine laws as great intrenchments upon their liberty ; and therefore , in regard of the high value they set upon liberty , cry out upon them as intolerable . for , first , suppose it were true , that our liberty is much restrained by the laws of god , yet would it be the most unreasonable thing in the world to cavil at them upon that account , or to think our selves too unkindly dealt with : and that for these three reasons . . we know by experience , that it is absolutely necessary to the well being ( nay to the very being ) of societies , that particular persons be obliged to part with not a little of their natural liberty . it is utterly inconsistent with the wellfare of the whole , for each particular to insist so severely on his own right , as to refuse to submit to the being deprived of that liberty , in several instances , in which the primary laws of nature have instated him : and consequently this is as inconsistent with the wellfare of particulars ; the well-being of each part depending upon the well-being of the whole . there can be no leagues , compacts or agreements between men and men , but there must be yielding , and quitting of liberty ; and that on both sides too ordinarily , if not always . all the laws of men do suppose the necessity of this ; nor is there any one merely humane law but doth restrain natural liberty . he therefore who is resolved not to let go any part of that liberty , must resolve upon another thing too , viz. to live under no government ; to forsake all society with his own kind , and live alone in a desart . but by so doing he will quickly be satisfied , that he pays infinitely too dear for so stiffly infilling upon his beloved liberty , and that he hath sold for it all the comfort of his life , and whatsoever would make it desirable to him . in a word , there can be no such thing as property without parting with several points of liberty ; without this no meum or ●uum ( i mean as to any thing without our selves , or that can happen to come within the reach of anothers power ) can be secured , as every body will grant . and therefore can it be thought a grievous thing that god himself should restrain our liberty ? . as it will be universally acknowledged , that it is absolutely necessary , that particular persons be abridged of their natural liberty in abundance of instances , so all that have a right notion of the deity must needs believe , that we are abridged of it in no instances by god almighty , but such as wherein it is most fit we should be abridged . the holy scriptures assure us of nothing more , nor doth natural light neither , than that infinite wisdom , righteousness and goodness are necessary perfections of the divine nature ; than that wilfulness and arbitrariness , austerity and sourness , envy and ill will , are as far removed from god as is hell from heaven . and consequently , though several of his laws should seem to our thinking never so unreasonable , yet while we adhere to the scriptural and natural notion of the deity , we our selves would be most unreasonable , in not concluding them to be really most contrary to what they may seemingly be to us ; in not believing them to be as wise , as righteous , and as good , as any can fancy them weak , unrighteous , or unkind . . as from the consideration of the nature of god we are as certain as we are capable of being of any thing , that all the abatements and limitations of our liberty , he is the author of , are most wise , just and good ; that they are founded in great reason , equity and kindness also to us , so we that live under the gospel dispensation are assured from the consideration of the particular observances and forbearances he hath by christ iesus obliged us to , that they are no other , than such as are infinitely worthy of such a god. they are all of that nature , that they carry their own reason most visibly and apparently along with them : and such as we are easily able to give account to our selves , upon what particular designs , it was the pleasure of our creator to impose them upon us . 't is the easiest thing in the world to demonstrate , that they are not only all of them consistent with infinite goodness , but also great instances and expressions thereof : that god is not only most righteous in enjoyning each of them , but most good and gracious . all but some two or three of the precepts of the gospel are no other than what right reason , and the law of our creation did , and must necessarily , always oblige us to , as will presently be seen . and those very few purely evangelical ones are designed for our better observation of those natural laws . and thus i have shewed in short , that , granting gods laws do put restraints ( and those many too ) upon our liberty , we have no cause to complain upon that account : they restraining it only in such particulars , as wherein it is incomparably better for us to be restrained than otherwise . but secondly , it is utterly to be denied , that the laws we christians are under the obligation of , do any of them restrain our liberty . they restrain licentiousness indeed , but not liberty . this doth sufficiently appear from what hath been discoursed . that cannot be true liberty which is injurious to our chiefest liberty , but our chiefest liberty we have shewed doth consist in being free to good ; in having all impediments taken out of our way to the free exercise of those virtues which are ( as i may say ) the very soul of our souls , the life of our souls , as our souls are of our bodies : without which we are dead even whilest we live ; without which we are in an utter incapacity of enjoying our selves , of being in the least measure truly happy , or of living like men , and discharging the functions of that life which is proper to reasonable creatures : and by the absence of which we degenerate into the brutish , nay into the devilish nature . you may as well say , that he is abridged of his liberty , who is kept from running his head into the fire , or from cutting his own throat , as that he is so , who is forbidden to be unjust and unrighteous in any kind , or to be malicious , or uncharitable , or intemperate , or lascivious : that is , who is forbidden to play the beast or the devil . or who is commanded to love god above all , to fear him , to trust in him , to be thankful to him , in all his ways to acknowledge him ; and to love his neighbour as himself . but , if we will believe the great s. paul , in these particulars is comprehended all that for substance , which the grace of god that bringeth salvation reacheth men to forbear or practise . to summ up all in short that needs to be said about this matter , there is nothing required of us , but it is either an essential part of our liberty , of our highest and most excellent liberty , to be free to it , or is a means to the obtaining and maintenance of it . what an unreasonable brutish creature therefore art thou , whosoever thou art , that darest repine at the restraints which thy creator and redeemer have laid upon thee , whenas these restraints ( if they may be called so ) are necessary to thy greatest enlargement . and let me tell thee , thou that thinkest much of being held within the limits which the gospel hath set thee , thou affectest a liberty which god himself hath not , and abhors to have . chap. xi . the second inference , viz. that such a freedom of will as consists in an indifferency to good or evil is no perfection , but the contrary . secondly , we may observe from the abovesaid discourse , that such a freedom of will as consists in an indifferency to good or evil , as much as it is magnified by some for a great perfection of the humane nature , is indeed no better than a diminution and disparagement : nor is it otherwise commendable than as a less evil. this must necessarily be so , if the most excellent liberty consisteth in an entire compliance with the laws of righteousness and goodness , as it hath been fully proved it doth . seneca hath somewhere a most impudent and blasphemous saying , to this purpose : that a wise , or virtuous , man is in some respect superior to god himself ; because god is good by necessity of nature , but he by his own free choice . 't is to be confessed , that , comparing this indifferency to good or evil with the determination of the will to evil , so it is desirable ; but then it is so only as 't is a less evil than the other , as was said . but comparing it with the determination of the will to good , from an inward principle , viz. from a quick , vigorous sense of the infinite loveliness of virtue , and monstrous deformity and ugliness of vice , so on the other hand , 't is a great imperfection , and consequently by no means desirable . the divine nature will be acknowledged to be the great standard and measure of perfections : we cannot question but that , the more like to god any one is , the more perfect he will be ; and the more unlike to god , the more imperfect : but the being free to evil and undetermined to good , makes a man less like god , because god is ( as hath been shewn ) necessarily , from his own nature determined to good , and from evil ; and his infinite wisdom , holiness , righteousness and goodness cannot consist with peccability , or a possibility of doing or approving the least evil. and therefore the more any one is from within himself , from a good temper of mind , determined to that which is good , the more like must he needs be to the best of beings , and the more he partakes of a divine nature . that saying of s. ierome doth need a paraphrase , viz. god is the only being , that is uncapable of sinning ; but all creatures , having free will in them , may turn their will to good or evil. namely , that god alone is absolutely im●eccable ; not but that by the divine grace creatures may be made so ; as , without doubt , the angels and saints in heaven are . and , whereas the father seems to exclude free will from god , and to give it to all reasonable creatures , he must mean such a free will as consisteth in indifferency to good or evil , or undeterminedness from within to good and against evil , and so on the contrary . this kind of freedom cannot belong to god , because it speaks great imperfection : for it supposeth him who hath it , to be without such a sense of the excellency and loveliness of goodness , and the hatefulness and intolerableness of wickedness , as he ought to have . he that can in the least deliberate ▪ whether it be more eligible to be just or unjust , chaste or impure , intemperate or sober , to speak truth or to lye , to love god or the world , to forgive or revenge , to be pitiful or cruel , to be niggardly or charitable , &c. he , i say , that can perswade himself to deliberate about these things , doth manifestly declare , that he understands neither the one nor the other , as he ought to do . i mean , that he hath nothing so lively a sense of the goodness of the one , or the evil of the other , as it becomes him to have . if we had such a sense , it would be as impossible to perswade us to any vile action , as it would be to prevail with a man in his right mind , to pour melted lead down his own throat , to pluck out his eyes , or to dash out his brains . you cannot deliberate whether it be better for you to be healthy or sick , to be at ease or in torment , to have a good name or a bad , to be beggarly or in plentiful circumstances , to be a wise man or a fool , to be a mad-man or in your wits , to be a slave or a freeman , &c. you will say that bedlam is the fittest place for him , that shall in the least consider which of these he shall chuse . now if we had as great a sense of the evil of the infinitely worst of evils sin , as we have of those evils , it would be as impossible , that our wills should incline to the commission of a known sin , as that they should prefer sickness before health , and refuse ease and embrace torment . as for those that contend that , it is more praise-worthy to do good and forbear evil , having a power to do otherwise , than to be under a necessity of so doing ▪ supposing they mean by necessity , such as is not from without , or from an inward blind instinct , but from an understanding principle and perfection of nature , i must needs tell them there is no proposition in the world more false or absurd . for is god almighty the less to be admired , loved or praised for his goodness , because his nature is so good , as that he cannot but be ever doing good ? surely he is much the more to be loved , adored , admired and praised upon this account . i will not therefore stick to say , that to have the will necessarily determined to all good , and from all evil , from an overpowering sense of the becomingness and excellency of the one , and the vileness and odiousness of the other , is the very perfection of liberty . and this is so far from being impossible to be obtained by creatures or by our selves , that , by the help of god's grace , it is in a large measure even in this life attainable . i mean such a sense of good and evil , as shall certainly determine us to good and against evil in most of the instances of each . there are some immoralities and wicked actions , that they who have attained to but very mean and ordinary degrees of goodness , cannot perswade themselves so much as to endeavour to reconcile their minds to . nay , there are some that no man can easily be supposed able to consent to , but an extraordinarily depraved and wicked wretch , let the motives that are used to perswade him be what they will. such as blaspheming of god : contriving the murther of our parents , or of a most obliging friend : torturing of innocent babes , and the like horrid villanies . surely then , a man is capable of such a vivid sense of the hatefulness of sin in general , as will ( whilest it lasts ) render it impossible for him to will deliberately to commit any known sin whatsoever . 't is confessed that we cannot hope to get past all danger of sudden surprizals , so long as we inhabit these bodies , and remain in our present unhappy circumstances ; but , i say , so powerful a sense of the infinite unrighteousness , disingenuity , unreasonableness , folly and madness of opposing the holy will of our great creator and blessed redeemer may , by the divine assistance , be acquired even on this side heaven , as shall determine us effectually against all deliberate and wilful violations of the divine laws . for this we have the authority of a great apostle : s. iohn saith in his epist. . . whosoever is born of god doth not commit sin , for his seed remaineth in him , neither can he sin , because he is born of god. he here affirms , not only that those who have attained to extraordinary measures of goodness cannot sin , that is , cannot will to sin deliberately , but likewise that no regenerate or truly good man can . he cannot thus sin , because he is born of god ; because he is a child of god by the inward renewing of his holy spirit : and because his seed remaineth in him , that is , the divine seed . which divine seed i take to be the same thing with the several times mentioned quick , powerful and pungent sense of the horrid nature , and most dreadful effects and consequents of wilful sinning . it is more than morally impossible , that whilest this sense abideth in its strength and vigour , the good man should lapse into such sins . have we not such a sense of the vileness of some actions , as to say frequently , i could not for all the world find in mine heart ( that is , in my will ) to do so or so ? and if we had the same sense of all sins , which it is unreasonable not to have , considering them as sins , or transgressions of the everlasting rules of righteousness ( for considering them under that notion , all sins are alike ) i say had we the same sense of all sins , we should as truly say concerning each , i cannot find in mine heart , i cannot will , to consent unto it . chap. xii . which treats of one branch of the first inference from the argument of the second section , [ that in freedom from the dominion of corrupt affections doth that liberty principally or rather wholly consist , which christ hath purchased for us . ] namely , that several notions of christian liberty , which have too much prevailed , are false and of dangerous consequence . the first of which is , that which makes it to consist , wholly or in part , in freedom from the obligation of the moral law. certain texts , urged by the antinomians in favour of it , vindicated from the sence they put upon them . and the extreme wildness and wickedness of it exposed in five particulars . we proceed now to the inferences from the latter argument , viz. that in freedom from the dominion of corrupt affections , and all the sad consequents thereof our christian liberty doth eminently consist , and wholly too the liberty which christ hath purchased for us gentiles . and first , we infer from hence , that several notions of christian liberty , that have too much prevailed , are false and of dangerous consequence . we will speak to , first , that which makes it to consist in freedom from the obligation of the moral law. secondly , that which makes it to consist in freedom from those laws of men , which enjoyn or forbid indifferent things . thirdly , that which makes liberty of conscience a branch of christian liberty . first , for that notion of christian liberty , which makes it to consist , either wholly or in part , in freedom from the obligation of the moral law : this is extremely wild and wicked , as will appear from what hath been discoursed . it is the doctrine of the antinomians , and they produce in favour of it all those texts wherein we are said to be delivered from the law. as particularly rom. . . now we are delivered from the law , that being dead wherein we were held , &c. gal. . . i through the law am dead to the law , &c. rom. . . ye are not under the law , but under grace . gal. . , . when the fulness of time was come , god sent forth his son , made of a woman , made under the law , to redeem them that were under the law , &c. to this it is answered , that there are indeed many texts which assert our being freed from the law , but the question is , what law they mean ? or rather 't is out of question , that they mean not the moral law. for there is no need of doing more than reading throughout the forementioned verses , to satisfie us , that the apostle understood , in each of them , nothing less than that law. nay , we need do no more to be assured , that he abominated this notion of christian liberty . for whereas he saith , rom. . . now we are delivered from the law , that being dead wherein we were held ; it follows , that we should serve in newness of spirit , and not in the oldness of the letter . that is , that we should no longer be merely externally obedient , but also , inwardly and spiritually . whereas he saith , gal. . . i through the law am dead to the law , he immediately adds this as the reason why he was so , that i might live unto god : or be in all things conformed to the rules of righteousness and goodness , which he hath prescribed ; all which are comprehended in the moral law. again , whereas he tells the romans , chap. . . ye are not under the law but under grace : this comes in as a proof of what he said immediately before in the same verse , viz. sin shall not have dominion over you . lastly , in saying , gal. . . that christ was made of a woman , made under the law , to redeem them that were under the law , he gives this in the next words as the reason or design hereof , that we might receive the adoption of sons . but doth not the relation of a son necessarily infer obligation to obedience ? it doth so no less than that of a servant . for where god saith , if i am a master , where is my fear ? he saith also , if i am a father where is mine honour ? the law therefore which is to be understood in these and the like places is the purely iewish law , the mere external and drudging observances of the mosaical dispensation , which the iewish believers thought themselves to be still under the obligation of , and condemned the gentile converts for not submitting their necks to the same yoke . and the apostle takes a great deal of pains , in his epistles to the romans and galatians , to confute that mistake ; and to convince the iews , that that law was made by christ null and void ; that he had cancelled it , and taken away its obliging power . and in each of those places the apostle as plainly affirms this to be the law they were delivered from , as that it is not the moral law. we will therefore a third time go them over again . rom. . . now we are delivered from the law , that being dead wherein we were held , that we should serve in newness of spirit , and not in the oldness of the letter . that is , we are delivered from that law , that considered literally , required nothing but a company of bodily washings , outward services , and carnal performances , which the iews generally rested in , and thought no more was to be done to render them acceptable in the sight of god ; and the reason why we are delivered from this law is , that so we may be the more intent upon the great substantial duties , and the purification of our hearts , souls and spirits . gal. . . i through the law am dead to the law , that i might live unto god. or , i by virtue of the law of christ , am dead to the law of moses , that i may have all impediments taken out of my way to the being intirely devoted , as to the inward as well as outward man , to the service of god. and it hath been shewed how injurious this law did accidentally become to the great design of the gospel , viz. the making us spiritually obedient ; the enduing us with inward , real , substantial righteousness ; or the divine likeness . rom. . . sin shall not have dominion over you , for ye are not under the law , but under grace . that is , there is no necessity of your continuing under the power and dominion of sin , because you are not under the weak dispensation of moses , which made nothing perfect , and gave no strength to mortifie lust , but under the gospel dispensation , which is accompanied with promises of plentiful supplies of grace and strength . gal. . . god sent forth his son , made of a woman , made under the law , to redeem them that were under the law , that we might receive the adoption of sons . or , that we might no longer drudge like servants of the inferior sort , in such employments as are mean and low , having no internal goodness in them ; and that from the hope only of some sleight reward , from the hope of some mere earthly good things , such as are gratifications only of the animal and sensual life ; and from the fear of mere temporal evils , and the present lash , ( that law containing no other express promises or threatnings but temporal , as was shewed ) but may be dealt with as sons , be honourably employed , viz. in such services as are of the most excellent nature , and do recommend themselves by their own goodness , and agreeableness to our rational and intellectual faculty . and be acted also by a more noble principle , viz. love , and encouraged by an infinitely more noble reward , which consisteth in a perfect likeness to god , and an everlasting enjoyment of him . and thus we see , these very texts that are made use of by the antinomians , to prove this mad notion of christian liberty from the obligation of the moral law , are so far from signifying any thing to this purpose , that they give manifest and clear proof of the contrary . as they are far from asserting , that any such liberty as this belongs to christians , so they assure us that no such liberty belongeth to them . tertullian hath a good saying to our present purpose : the yokes of works ( meaning the drudgeries of the ceremonial law ) are cast off , not those of rules to walk by . liberty in christ is not injurious to innocence . the intire law of piety , holiness , humanity , v●rity , chastity , righteousness , mercy , b●n●volence , purity is still of force . and indeed should we find this doctrine in those texts , that our saviour hath procured for us freedom from this law , then , first , the blessed apostle would have most expresly contradicted his great master , and so have proved himself no apostle ; for our saviour plainly saith , matth. . . think not , let not such a wild fancy enter into your heads , that i am come to destroy the law and the prophets , i am not come to destroy , but to fulfil : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to fill it up , or preach it fully . i am so far from such a design , as that of destroying or abolishing the moral law , that , on the contrary , i am come to preach it more fully and perfectly , than ever it was before my coming . and this he presently sets upon doing , vers. , , , , &c. ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time , thou shalt not kill , and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment ; but i say unto you , that whoso●v●r is angry with his brother without a cause , shall be in danger of the judgment , &c. ye have heard , that it was said by them of old time , thou shalt not commit adultery : but i say unto you , that whosoev●r shall look upon a woman , to lust after h●r , hath committed adultery already with her in his heart . and so he goes on to perfect and fill up law , in the following verses . again our saviour saith , vers . . verily i say unto you , that till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law , till all be fulfilled : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , till all be done , or till all things come to an end , according to doctor hammond . he hath not here respect to the universal conflagration , saith grotius upon the place , but it is a proverbial speech , as if it were said in latine , vsque dum coelum ruat : till the heavens fall . which is thus expressed , luke . . and it is easier for heaven and earth to pass , than one tittle of the law to fail . in which manner of speaking , as saith the same learned expositor , he hath respect to the order of nature , and not to the power of god. but according to nature it seems impossible that heaven and earth should pass away or perish . so that the meaning of these texts is plainly this , viz. the obligation of the law can neither cease , nor be diminished or relaxed in the least , to all eternity . and then our saviour adds , vers. . of this fifth of s. matthew , whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments , and shall teach men so , he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven : that is , saith grotius , minimi erit pretii , eum minimi habitum iri , he shall be contemned , and treated as a most despicable wretch at the day of iudgment . then it follows , but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven . he shall be highly honoured , and signally rewarded . when the young man came to our saviour to ask him , what good thing he should do , that he might have eternal life , we know what his answer was , if thou wilt enter into life , keep the commandments , s. matth. . . and whereas he meant all , yet ( knowing how apt hypocrites are to flatter themselves with an opinion of the goodness of their state , upon the account of their external conformity to the first table precepts , though they live in the gross transgression of those of the second table ) he only expressed those which enjoyn duties relating to our neighbour . for the young man asking which commandments ? iesus said , thou shalt do no murder , thou shalt not commit adultery , thou shalt not steal , thou shalt not bear false witness , honour thy father and thy mother : and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself , ver. , . secondly , the apostle would have contradicted himself most egregiously , as well as his master , should he , in the above-cited places , or any where else , teach this notion of christian liberty . for 't was he that said , do we make void the law through faith , god forbid , yea we establish the law , rom. . . he here includes even the ceremonial law , as appears by ver . . ( which gave occasion to these words ) therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith , without the deeds of the law : that is , that a gentile is justified without circumcision , or sacrifices , or any other of the iewish rites and services , which they still laid so great weight upon ; as appears by the two following verses , is he the god of the iews only ? is he not also of the gentiles ? yes of the gentiles also . seeing it is one god , which shall justifie the circumcision by faith , and vncircumcision through faith. now saith the apostle , god forbid we should affirm that the gospel dispensation should make void the law ; should make useless so much as the ceremonial law , therefore much less the moral , yea we assert it establisheth the law. in some sence it even establisheth or perfects that law , as it brings in the substance of that , whereof that law had the shadow ; and requireth purity of heart , which was the spiritual meaning of circumcision . again , 't was the same s. paul that said , not the hearers of the law are just before god ; but the doers of the law shall be justified , rom. . . and it is he who makes it to be the design of christ's expiating our sins upon the cross , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit . and it is this same apostle that saith , though i speak with the tongues of men and of angels , and have not charity ( a moral virtue ) i am become as sounding brass , or a tinkling cymbal . and though i have the gift of prophecy , and understand all mysteries , and all knowledge : and though i have all faith , so that i could remove mountains , and have no charity , i am nothing , &c. cor. . , . and in the last verse , doth not only equalize charity with faith and hope ( which many now adays are so far from doing , that they are angry with those who do so ) but also advanceth it above those graces . and now abideth faith , hope , charity , these three , but the greatest of these is charity . thirdly , whosoever teacheth this doctrine , of christ's having set us free from the moral law , contradicteth the whole strain of the new testament : our saviours sermon on the mount throughout , all his injunctions and even all his discourses , and all the precepts and exhortations contained in the epistles of the apostles . they are all so many instances of the obligations that the first and second tables lay upon us , as understood in the most spiritual , sublime and comprehensive sence : and none are more so than those of s. paul , so intolerably is he abused in being made the great , and i think , onely patron of that most licentious and wicked doctrine . and even that precept of believing in the name of the son of god , is a first-table precept , not positive but moral , in its own nature necessarily obliging , and a dictate of natural light , to all those who are acquainted with the evidence of his being the messiah , and son of god. upon our understanding how he is demonstrated so to be , we should have known that faith in him is an indispensable duty , though we could not have produced one text to prove it . moreover believing in christ , together with the institutions of baptism and the lord's supper are designed as means to the great end of making us intirely obedient to the moral law , or the everlasting rules of righteousness . fourthly , whosoever teacheth this doctrine , teacheth a most manifest contradiction to the essential principles and make of mankind . it is impossible that reasonable creatures should be disobliged from loving god above all , from being just and charitable , sober and temperate , humble and submissive to the divine will , and the like . it is impossible that any power whatsoever should discharge them from such duties as these . their obligation to them doth naturally arise from their being such creatures . there is not a greater contradiction than this imaginable , that creatures made capable of understanding what god is , and their relation and obligations to him , may not be eternally bound to behave themselves towards him , as the moral law requires they should . infinite power it self cannot set such creatures free from their obligation to love god with the highest degree of love their souls will admit of . now as the apostle tells us , that love is the fulfilling of the law , so 't is easie to shew , that all moral duties whatsoever , whether relating to god , our neighbour , or our selves , are the necessary results and consequents of the love of god ; so that we cannot once suppose , that these should cease at any time to be the duties of men and women , but we must also suppose them then deprived of their essential form , and to be changed into another sort of beings . fifthly , this doctrine also is as apparent a contradiction to the happiness and welfare of mankind . we cannot be in a happy or tolerably good state , but by conforming our selves to the precepts of this law. we have already shewed , that those must necessarily be deplorably miserable , who live in subjection to any corrupt appetite , any fleshly or spiritual lust. to which purpose , i will add this passage of clemens alexandrinus , to submit and give place to evil affections is extreme slavery , as to overcome them is the only liberty . nor can the best place in the world , not heaven it self , or the most glorious outward circumstances , make that person happy , or not miserable , within whom all is amiss and out of order , and who is indued with no good habit or temper of mind . a diseased body will be uneasie , do what you can to it , and so will diseased souls . these things considered , 't is the most amazing thing , that any who call themselves christians can entertain such a notion as this of christian liberty ; the directly contrary being the whole design and business of christianity . and yet for all that we find it as ancient as the apostles days ; there were those so early that did not only teach it but practised upon it ; that used their liberty for a cloak of maliciousness , and turned the grace of god into lasciviousness . but 't is no over-bold saying , that if this could be really proved to be a liberty of christ's bringing into the world , there is no good man but would abhor the christian religion . but the antinomians ( not to make worse of them than they are ) tell us , that they do not deny the obligation of christians to the performance of the duties required by the moral law , but 't is only love , gratitude and ingenuity that can oblige them . which is as much as to say , that they are not obliged to them in strict justice , or as they are the matter of a law. but alas , they very little mend the matter by this salvo , nay their doctrine is of the same dangerous consequence with it , that it is without it . for , first , it destroys all the gospel precepts , makes them insignificant and idle things ; they being all moral , either in themselves or in their design . secondly , it takes off all obligation to love , ingenuity and gratitude . you say you are not bound to be righteous , charitable , temperate , &c. by any other law than that of love and gratitude : but by what law are you obliged to the love of god and christ , to be grateful to them , and to have an ingenuous , thankful sense of the great things they have done for you ? you must say by no law at all , seeing you make these the only law of christians . and , if you are obliged to these things by no law , how are they duties ? and perswade a man once , that they are not duties , and 't will be very strange if he make any conscience of love and gratitude : and then there is nothing left to hold him in from committing all manner of wickedness with greediness , whensoever the tempter or his lusts solicite him , and opportunities are offered to him . but besides , they have another doctrine , and 't is that upon which this strange wild notion is founded , which takes away all necessity of being grateful and ingenuous , viz. that the righteousness of christ is formally ( and not only in its fruits and effects ) a believers ; so that he hath done all that the law requires in the believers stead , or as personating him . this is their sence of those words lately cited , i came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil it ; so that christ having fulfilled the law as the believers representative , he hath fulfilled it himself in christ. and christs active and passive obedience is his , both as to matter and principle , and therefore christs love and gratitude are his love and gratitude , and all those graces which so shined forth in christ are the believers , in their very formality and essential nature . now what should ail those that can down with this strange stuff , to boggle at believing that they have no need at all of any other love , ingenuity or gratitude , than what is thus imputed to them ? and therefore you see that their talking of the law of love and gratitude is but a pitiful shift , and will do nothing towards the deliverance of their doctrine of freedom from the moral law , from the necessary tendency it is charged with , to the letting the reins loose , and opening the flood-gates to all ungodliness . i exceedingly wonder how it is possible , for people that have not first lost their wits , to embrace an opinion so apparently destructive of christianity and of all religion , and all this while profess themselves christians , and the onely christians too . but i have bestowed too much time in the confutation of this hateful notion of christian liberty ; it being as ridiculously silly as it is wicked : and it being as evident to him that knows any thing of the gospel , that it is antichristian licentiousness , as that there is any such thing as christian liberty . poor souls ! they little understand what liberty meaneth , who are able to talk or think at this rate . in short , he that believes that true christians are delivered by the sufferings of christ from the curse due to the transgressors of this law , believes most truly ; but whosoever believes they are delivered from the power it had to oblige to the duties thereof , or that any man can be so delivered , thinks most wickedly , and thinks most madly . chap. xiii . a second false notion of christian liberty , viz. that which makes it to consist in freedom from the obligation of those laws of men , which enjoyn or forbid indifferent things . this notion differently managed by the defenders of it . first , some extend it so far as to make it to reach to all humane laws , the matter of which are things indifferent . secondly , others limit it to those which relate to religion and the worship of god. the . vers. of the . chap. of the epist. to the corinthians cleared from giving any countenance to either of these opinions . the former of them confuted by three arguments : and the latter by four . vnder the second of which , several texts of scripture which are much insisted upon in the defence thereof , are taken into consideration . an unjust reflection upon the church of england briefly replied to . and this principle , that the imposing of things indifferent in divine worship is no violation of christian liberty , proved to be no ways serviceable to popery , by considering what the popish impositions are in three particulars . secondly , we are next to speak to that notion of christian liberty , which makes it to consist in freedom from those laws of men , that command or forbid indifferent things : ( i. e. ) things neither good nor evil in their own nature , nor required or prohibited by any law of god. this notion is differently managed by the defenders of it . first , some extend it to all humane laws , the matter of which are things indifferent . secondly , others limit it to those which relate to religion onely , and the worship of god. but what proof is there of christ's having purchased such a liberty as this ? or that christians are made free from such laws in either of these sences ? there is one text insisted on by both of these parties for each of their sentiments about this matter ; viz. that of s. paul , cor. . . ye are bought with a price , be not ye the servants of men. that is , say the former party , ye are redeemed by the precious bloud of christ from the obligation of all merely humane laws : from all such observances as are only of mens imposing , which neither natural light , nor any divine law hath made necessary , but have left us free to . and the latter party say , the meaning is , ye are redeemed by christ's bloud from all merely humane impositions which respect religion and divine worship , as being aware that the other exposition is too too extravagant . but these two parties are equally out in their application of this text to their several purposes , nor will it do the least service to either of them . and they may as well conclude from that of our saviour , matth. . . call no man your father upon earth , for one is your father which is in heaven , that it is forbidden them to acknowledge any such relation upon earth , as that of father , as raise either of those doctrines from those words of s. paul. and , as it is manifest , that by this prohibition of our saviour , no more is to be understood , than that we ought not to give up our selves universally and absolutely to be guided and governed by any man on earth ; as the pharisees ( of whom he is there discoursing , and against the imitation of whose proud practices he there cautions his disciples ) did expect their proselytes should be by them ; as young children who are wholly ruled by the will of their parents : i say , as , by considering the context , it is most evident that our saviour there only speaks against an vnlimited subjection to men , as being that which is due to god only , so it is exceedingly unreasonable to make that prohibition of the apostle to speak any more than thus much , put not your selves so under the power of any man or men whatsoever , as to be in all things without exception , at their devotion . as to subject your selves to their lusts , in doing those things at their command which god hath forbidden . and thus to do , 't is acknowledged most freely , is with a witness opposite to our christian liberty , according to that notion of it , which in this discourse hath been laid down and defended by us . but it is , i think , a plain case , that this place hath been not only by these men , but generally mistaken ; and that doctor hammond is in the right , in reading the words otherwise than they are translated , viz. thus : are ye bought with a price ? be not ye the servants of men. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may as well be rendred , are ye ? as ye are bought with a price . so that the meaning of these words according to this reading is this , have you bought out your liberty , and obtained manumission ( having been formerly servants to heathens ) sell not your selves again . return not to that condition of servitude , but prefer liberty . the immediately foregoing verses do greatly favour this reading , viz. ver. , . art thou called being a servant ? care not for it , think it not a disparagement to christianity for a bondman to be a christian , but if thou mayest be made free , use it rather : prefer freedom , if thou canst lawfully obtain it . for he that is called in the lord , being a servant , is the lord's free-man : likewise also he that is called being free , is christ's servant . so that the . ver. follows these two very fitly and pertinently , as we now read it , are ye bought with a price ? that is , out of your servile condition , ( and it was ordinary in those days , for christians to buy themselves from their heathen masters ) be not ye , or be not ye made [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the servants of men. or return not any more to your former condition . now , first , for that doctrine which makes it a part of christian liberty to be freed from all laws that are merely humane ; ( which the minds of some professors of christianity were leavened with , as i might shew , even in the apostles time , and all theirs must needs have been , who then held themselves disobliged from the moral law ) i say , as for that doctine , the wildness thereof will be sufficiently exposed , by that time we have considered these following particulars . first , there is no intimation in scripture of any such liberty as this . i cannot think of any text that so much seemeth to look that way , as this we have now spoken to : and this , read it how you will , cannot to any sober man , at his second thought upon it , seem so to do . but secondly , nothing is more slatly contradicted by the holy scriptures than this doctrine . for , servants are not only commanded to be obedient to them that are their masters according to the flesh , with fear and trembling , in singleness of heart , as unto christ , without any such limitation as this , if they command nothing but what god hath required ; but they are expresly commanded , in all things to obey their masters according to the flesh , col. . . that is , all things not evil in themselves , or not forbidden by any law of god. the all things must be so limited , because else s. paul would have contradicted two other apostles , s. peter and s. iohn , who said to their rulers , upon their commanding them not to teach any more in the name of iesus , whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto you more than unto god , judge ye , acts . . this limitation needed not to be expressed , because nothing is better known from scripture , nor from natural light neither , than that no laws of the greatest kings on earth are of any force that are contrary to any law of the king of kings . according to that saying of tertullian , if i mistake not , obediendum est principibus , sed intra limites disciplinae . princes are to be obeyed , but no farther than our religion will give us leave . i see not how he can be better than a down-right atheist , let him pretend what he will , whosoever patronizeth the leviathan doctrine , that absolute subjection , active no less than passive , is due to governours . but to return to our present business : s. peter is still more express , epist. . . saith he there to servants , be subject to your masters with all fear , not only to the good and gentle , but also to the froward . or , though they require unreasonable things of you , if they be not forbidden by a higher power , do you obey them . but i presume the greatest zealots for this wild notion who have servants , are well content that they should have no plea from their christianity to disobey themselves in any of their commands ; but are onely concerned to have their notion of christian liberty true in reference to the laws of the magistrate . as if a master of a family hath more power over his servants , than a king hath over his subjects . let us see therefore what doctrine we find concerning obedience to kings and the higher powers . s. peter saith , epist. . . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake ; whether it be to the king as supreme , or unto governours , as unto them that are sent by him , &c. again , every soul is commanded to be subject to the higher powers , because there is no power but of god , the powers that be are ordained of god , rom. . , , &c. and ver. . 't is said , we must needs be subject , and that not onely for wrath , but also for conscience sake . but there is not the least syllable , either in these or any other places , of such a limitation as might reconcile these injunctions with this notion of christian liberty . and we may be confident , that if , by virtue of that liberty , christians were disobliged from obedience to their governours , whensoever they required things indifferent , ( though very unreasonably enjoyned , yet in their own nature not evil , and no where forbidden by god to be done ) the apostle would have put in this exception in the last mentioned place : the emperor being a great tyrant , and rather a monster than a man , that then reigned . thirdly , if governours can oblige us to nothing , but what antecedently to their laws we ought to do , there is no formal obedience at all due to them . i am then no more bound in conscience to obey them , than those who have no power over me , that are invested by god with no authority . for if such say to me , do not kill , do not steal , do not commit adultery , &c. i shall greatly sin in not hearkening to them . and whereas it will be replied , that though such injunctions of persons not placed in power ought to be observed , yet not as theirs , but as divine injunctions , i must needs profess that i do not believe it neither to be at all my duty to obey such laws of our governours under the n●tion of theirs : my obligation to obey all the laws of god being as strong and indispensable every whit , by virtue of his immediate authority , as if they were backt and inforced by never so many , and never so severe laws of his vicegerents . nor can any of their laws make what god almighty hath obliged me either to or from , one iot a greater duty or sin than it was before ; for the divine authority hath made whatsoever it hath commanded or prohibited , as great a duty or sin , as it is capable of being made , that is , considered in it self . it is so evident , that we are not obliged to obey a law of the land as such , which onely requires or forbids what is required or forbidden by an express law of god , that the less respect any one hath to humane laws in such things , in doing iustly , in being temperate and chaste , in attending upon the solemn worship of god , and the like , supposing he makes conscience of them upon the account of the divine laws , the better man is he , and the more sincere christian. and therefore such laws of men , as are enacted against what god's law hath forbidden , or do enjoyn what was before commanded by god , are not made for a righteous man ( as the apostle speaks , even of the law of moses ) but for such wretches as live under no sense of the divine sovereignty , and would not have any regard to god's laws , were they not inforced with men's , having severe penalties annexed to them . so that , if i am disobliged by my christian liberty from doing or forbearing any thing in obedience to humane laws , but what i ought to do or forbear , though there were no laws of men about it , that which i now said is very easie to be believed , viz. that no formal obedience is due to magistrates ; and they have no power to make any new laws of their own , but onely to take the best care that the old ones , viz. the laws of god , be observed . and if it be so , what becomes of all those texts wherein obedience to governours is with such strictness required of christians ? this opinion that rulers have no power over us in regard of our christian liberty in matters of an indifferent nature , doth make the fifth commandment , and all those injunctions perfectly insignificant . and the apostle might well have spared his charge to titus , to put those under his care in mind , to be subject to principalities and powers , to obey magistrates , &c. tit. . . this monstrously wild notion of christian liberty , i should not have taken thus much notice of , as little as i have said , but that of late days multitudes by their behaviour would make us suspect they are infected with it , who yet will not professedly own it . it is come to that sad pass , that preaching obedience to authority is become as unacceptable doctrine as can be to even many great pretenders to christianity , although it be done never so prudently and agreeably to the express doctrine of our saviour and his apostles : and the notion of obedience for conscience-sake seems almost lost among not a few . which is one of the great sins for which we have too good reason to fear , there 's a heavy scourge near us . secondly , as for that doctrine which limits our disobligation , by the means of christian liberty , from the laws of men that impose indifferent things , to those that onely relate to religion and the worship of god : that this is wild too , though more sober than the other , will appear by these considerations . first , this notion of christian liberty tends to introduce sad disorder and confusion into the churches of christ , and will certainly do it if practised upon . i need not go about to prove , that the order of ecclesiastical as well as civil societies consisteth principally in the due regulation of things in their own nature indifferent . s. paul hath enjoyned that in the church , all things be done decently , and in order , cor. . . but how shall they be so done , if it be a violation of our christian liberty to have any thing imposed upon us by our governours for decencies and orders sake ? particular rules being not given us in scripture about this matter ; which to be sure would have been , were they not left to the determination of the governours of each church , upon supposition that 't is possible to give such as would well suit all churches . calvin , upon those words of s. paul , cor. . . now i praise you brethren , that you remember me in all things , and keep the ordinances as i delivered them to you , doth thus express his sense about this matter : saith he , we know that every church is left free to appoint a form of polity for it self , because our lord hath prescribed nothing certain : and he speaks this you see , not as his own sense onely , but as the sense , and that undoubted too , of his other brethren of the reformation : whose judgment , were it needful , we might largely produce to the same purpose . but there is no need of it , those very persons , who have been most zealous for the contrary opinion being forced to contradict it in their practice ; and , for orders sake , to determine such things in their several church-administrations as are left perfectly undetermined in scripture ( of which might be given very many instances ) notwithstanding their clamors against the church of england upon this account , as modest as she is in her impositions . secondly , this notion of christian liberty is so great an infringment of the liberty christ hath left to ecclesiastical governours , as not to leave them so much , as it is certain the governours of the iewish church was invested with , who yet were bound up and determined in a very great number of particulars . over and above the multitude of rites and ceremonies which god himself did annex to the substance of his worship , we read of not a few others that were added by men. we have a large account of such in maimonides , in his book de cultu divino , and the holy scriptures themselves present us with diverse such , without the least intimation of god's dislike of them ; a summary of which is to be seen in several late treatises . i will onely instance in some few of the chief of them , viz. king solomon's hallowing the middle part of the temple for sacrifices , kings . . the celebrating of the passover for fourteen days by king hezekiahs order , although god had commanded no more than half that number , chron. . . the yearly feast of purim , esther . . the set hours of prayer in the temple , acts . . the feast of dedication , ordained by the iews , maccab. . . in commemoration of the new consecrating the altar , after antiochus had prophaned it . this feast , though god did not prescribe it , was honoured by christ's own presence at it , iohn . , . several alterations , and particularly that of the gesture , in eating the passover ; the which christ declared his approbation of by his conformity to them , matth. . . to these i shall only add those two known rites of the iews not commanded in the law , viz. that of joyning baptism with circumcision in admitting proselytes ; and that of the post-coenium , or feast after the passover . and these two our saviour was so far from condemning , upon the score of their being of humane institution , that his two great sacraments received their rise from them . the texts which are chiefly urged , to prove the unlawfulness of bringing any thing into the worship of god , but what he hath himself prescribed , are those in the old testament , wherein god declareth his displeasure against some of the israelites , for doing those things which he commanded them not : and one in the new , but cited out of the old , where our saviour reprehendeth the pharisees for teaching for doctrines the commandments of men . those texts in the old testament are lev. . . deut. . . ier. . . chap. . . chap. . . but i wonder that those who produce these texts for such a purpose , could not see without our shewing it to them , that they all speak of such things as god did not onely not command , but had strictly forbid . in lev. . . the thing which god saith he commanded them not , was nadab and abihu's offering strange fire before the lord. which was an act of disobedience to a most express law , chap. . , . that , in deut. . . not commanded by god , was a most hainous sin , and a flat transgression of the first commandment , viz. serving other gods , and worshipping of them , the sun , the moon and the host of heaven . that not commanded , ier. . . was not onely contrary to the law of god , but a horrible wickedness condemned by the light of nature , viz. the burning of their sons and their daughters in the fire , in the valley of hinnom . that which god saith , he commanded not , neither came it into his mind , jer. . . was the same vnnatural wickedness , viz. the burning their sons with fire for burnt-offerings to baal . and that in ier. . . was the causing of their sons and daughters to pass through the fire unte molech . but what doth gods condemning such abominable practices as these signifie , towards the proving it unlawful to use or impose certain innocent rites and circumstances in divine worship , which are not expresly and particularly required by god ? but may be truly said to be in the general required by him , as such are necessary to the decorous management of his worship , and agreeable to the forementioned rule , of doing all things decently , and in order . and whereas the urgers of these texts for the foresaid purpose do reply to us , that though they cannot deny but the instances of the things not commanded mentioned in each of them , are things also prohibited , yet they are pertinently insisted upon by them , because it is tacitly implied in god's expressing them as things onely not commanded , that things not commanded in his worship offend him , as well as things prohibited . to this i briefly answer , that this is subtil arguing indeed , except it can be shewed that god doth any where condemn the doing in his worship what is lawful in its own nature , and no where forbidden by him , under the notion of a thing not commanded . which i dare affirm cannot be shewed . and i add , that nothing is more absurd , than to build doctrines upon idioms of the sacred language ; but this is too commonly done by the men we are now dealing with , as i am able to shew in too many instances . and if we should turn the scales , and argue thus , such and such things are not forbidden by god , therefore they are commanded , we should not be guilty of a grosser absurdity than they are in inferring from god's not having commanded them , that he hath therefore forbidden them . if it be said ( as it is by these men ) that there is a general precept , deut. . . that makes it as evident , that things not commanded in divine worship may not be done , though they ben't forbidden , as if there were particular instances of that nature condemned , viz. ye shall not add unto the word which i command you , neither shall you diminish ought from it , that ye may keep the commandments of the lord your god which i command you . i reply , that if they be not mistaken in the sence of these words , they will prove more than is intended to be proved , or than they would have true : namely , that nothing is to be done out of as well as in the worship of god , but what is expresly and particularly commanded . but episcopius ( who may be listened to in this matter because no episcopalian ) hath shewed that these words , ye shall 〈◊〉 add unto the word which i command you , neither shall you diminish ought from it , are no new precept ; but onely signifie , ye shall not transgress the commandments of god , by doing any thing contrary to them , which is to add ; or by omitting any thing required by them , which is to diminish . and as to that text in the new testament , matth. . . but in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines , the commandments of men . it is manifest , that that which is condemned in the pharisees here is the setting up of their own constitutions in stead or in the place of god's , and those too contrary to god's commandments . this is evident from the context . our saviour saith vers. . why do you transgress the commandments of god by your traditions ? that is , saith irenaeus upon these words , they did not onely frustrate the law of god by prevarication , mixing wine with water ; but they also set their law in opposition , or contradiction to the law of god , &c. and that so they did appears by what follows , vers. , , . for god commanded , saying , honour thy father and mother , &c. but ye say , whosoever shall say to his father or his mother , it is gift by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me ; and honour not his father or mother , he shall be free . thus have ye made the commandment of god of none effect by your tradition . and then next follows a citation out of esay . . according to the septuagint , whereof these words are part , viz. ye hypocrites , well did esaias prophesie of you , saying , this people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth , and honoureth me with their lips : but their heart is far from me . but in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men . we will also consider these words as they are recited by s. mark , chap. . . with the verse following . howbeit in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men . for laying aside the commandment of god , ye hold the tradition of men , as the washing of pots and cups , &c. that is , according to doctor hammond 's paraphrase upon the place , you are those hypocrites that profess great strictness in performances towards god , and practise in some external things more than god commands you , and impose these on others as the commands of god , when they are only humane ordinances . as for the inward purity of the heart and actions , to which all god's laws of washings did refer , you take no care of them , transgress against this substantial part of religion in the foulest manner , and spend all your time in these external superfluities , ●●shing of pots , &c. the ordinances of your rabbins onely . but what are the hypocritical and wicked doings here condemned , to governours determining of external circumstances of administration in the worship of god , which are not onely innocent in themselves , but also not set up in the place of , or justling out , any thing commanded by god , nor yet imposed as the commands of god. but who can have the forehead to fasten such high presumptions as these upon our church ? but i proceed , thirdly , as this notion of christian liberty is an infringment of the liberty which is left to governours , so is it also greatly injurious to the peoples liberty . for it is a very highly to be prized instance of the peoples liberty , that they may without giving god an offence conform to such laws as oblige them onely to indifferent things . and it will be an intolerable straitning and confining of our liberty , it will be a very grievous bondage to us , to be always obnoxious to the penalties which are the sanctions of such laws , and to other manifold inconveniences that follow upon disobeying them . christian liberty , according to this notion , is so far from being worthy of our saviour's purchasing , that 't is infinitely more desirable to be without it , in regard of the extremely mischievous consequences which follow upon quarrelling with authority about harmless matters , which have not the least ill influence upon our souls ; whereby not onely those who refuse obedience are exposed in their own persons and families to great evils , both temporal and spiritual , but also the whole community , the church and state too , by their means . this we all know , at this day , by very sad experience . this , i say , is such a liberty as is the occasion of lamentable mischiefs both publick and private , but i am wholly to seek what good can possibly accrue thereby ; and therefore we may safely warrant it , to be no liberty of our blessed saviour's procurement , but the contrary . if we were well instructed in the nature of the gospel dispensation , we should be very certain that whatsoever doth no way tend to the depraving of our souls , and the bringing us into bondage to sin ( which we have proved to be the onely opposite to our grand christian liberty ) cannot be unlawful to us christians ; because not prejudicial to the ultimate design of the gospel , which is the making us free from the dominion of sin. to which design we have shewed all the precepts of our saviour , the promises and threatnings ( and i may add doctrines too ) are subservient . and on the contrary , we may be as sure , that whatsoever is apt to hinder the promoting of this design must needs be unlawful lawful under the gospel : as all that are not blind , or do not shut their eyes , may easily see this same pretended christian liberty most sadly doth . and there is nothing more apparent , than that obedience to authority , in all things not forbidden by the divine laws , doth mightily conduce to the promoting of peace , love , humility , self-denial , and the like great christian virtues : but disobedience in such matters doth as much occasion the gratifying of those devilish lusts , pride , uncharitableness , contention , wrath , sedition , &c. fourthly , those that pretend it to be such a violation of christian liberty to be obliged by mens laws to things indifferent , if they will be true to themselves and their own principles , must not onely refuse obedience to the injunctions of such things , but to the prohibitions also of such things : as they must not do such as are commanded to be done , so they must do such as are commanded to be forborn . for it is as great an infringment of our liberty to have indifferent things forbidden us , as to have them imposed upon us ; 't is a no less intrenchment upon it , to be tied up from what we may antecedently to the magistrates authority do , as to be commanded what we may omit . so that if the things which the dissenters now refuse to do because commanded , should hereafter be forbidden by authority , they would be obliged , in order to the maintenance of their christian liberty , to be every whit as zealous for them as now they are against them : nor were they so honest as they should have been , but false to this their principle , and shamefully betrayed their liberty , in so patiently submitting , when time was , to the severe prohibition of the same things , though it was by an usurped power too . what a strange liberty is this , which , in its natural consequences , tends to make people so humoursom , cross-grain'd , and opposite to government ! surely it can't be christian , but the most vnchristian liberty . if this free dealing should offend any , i shall be sorry for it , but must withal take leave to tell the offended , that it is an evidence of exceeding great weakness , not to say worse , to be angry with those who endeavour in the spirit of meekness , to convince us of our dangerous mistakes . but such is the fate of conscientious opposing popular and prevailing errors , that it seldom meeteth with better success , than kindling the passions , and sharpening the tongues ( and pens too ) of those , who are most obliged to be thankful for it : but wisdom is justified of her children . but however it be taken , it was never more seasonable , nor ever scarcely so necessary , to do our utmost towards the rectifying of peoples apprehensions about matters of this nature ; when our contentions and animosities about little things mostly , ( things very little in themselves ) and so great a defection from our church , merely upon the account of such things as are no where condemned by the law of god , nor are opposed by any express or plain text , but by exceedingly laboured and far fetch'd consequences , have given our adversaries such advantage against us , and do them far greater service , than all their open attempts , or secret wicked plots and conspiracies , through the infinite goodness of god to us , have hitherto done . god almighty grant that that saying be not to be applied to us ere long , which was used of our predecessors the britains , when their intestine quarrels had occasioned their being vanquish'd by the romans , viz. dum singuli pugnant , vniversi vincuntur . while they severally contend and quarrel with one another , they are all overcome by a common enemy . i must confess , when i consider what excellent treatises have of late been published , fraught with unanswerable and the most convincing and affecting arguments , to perswade our brethren of the separation to ease us in a great measure of our fears of popery or confusion , by returning to the communion of that church wherein most of them were baptized ; and when withal i observe what little success those treatises have had , i have as faint hopes as can be that so small an endeavour as this should do any service . but however , it is some satisfaction to my mind to express my good will. but we are told by some , that we may thank the church of england if ever the pope be again our master , and particularly that principle of hers we have been now defending , viz. that imposing of indifferent things in the worship of god is no violation of christian liberty : and that this principle will open a door to popish conformity , if we should be once more so unhappy as to be brought into subjection to the roman yoke . to these i reply , in the first place , that 't is unconceiveable how any thing but malice or the thickest ignorance can charge the church of england with serving the interest of the popish religion : for is any thing more notorious , than that almost all the opposition that hath either heretofore or of late been made against popery hath been by the bishops and the other clergy of this church ? to say nothing of what the separating party have done ( though not upon that design ) to promote popery , which would be as large as unpleasant a theme to insist on ; what have they done in defence of the reformed religion against popery ? have they all of them put together done the half quarter part of that service in this kind , that one excellent dean of our church hath done ? truly i much doubt it . and i think i may adventure to say , that all the reformed churches together can hardly shew of their own so many learned and judicious treatises against the body and the several parts of popery , as our single church can shew of hers. again , is any thing better known than that the priests and jesuits , and popish faction do at this time spit all their venome and bend all their force against the church of england , and indeed always have done ? this sheweth that they are well aware , though so many among our selves will not acknowledge it , but would have the world think the directly contrary , that our church is the most formidable of all their adversaries . in short , who needs arguments to convince him , that the church of england is at present our onely bulwark against popery ? as , ever since the reformation , she hath been acknowledged by our brethren beyond sea , to be the strongest and most impregnable upon several accounts . but secondly , as to this principle of our church , that imposing of indifferent things in the worship of god is no violation of christian liberty , it is a most weak and ignorant furmise , that it should in the least befriend popery . those little understand what popery means that think thus : for , first , there is nothing more plainly demonstrable than that many of those things which are imposed by the roman church are far from being indifferent in their own nature , but the grossest corruptions , as contrary to the doctrine and practice of the first ages of the church ; and , which is far more , as contrary to the laws of god and our saviour christ , as is darkness to light. i have given a catalogue in the design of christianity of the chief of these , with remarks upon them , and thither i refer the reader that needs satisfaction . secondly , other of her impositions , which are indifferent in themselves , are made to change their nature by the notion under which they are enjoyned by her . that church enjoyns no indifferent things as such ( as ours doth all she imposeth , as appears by her th article ) but as made necessary by divine authority ; she pretending to the infallible guidance of the holy ghost in all her decrees and constitutions : and therefore expects your receiving them , as you do the holy scriptures , with a divine faith , and the self-same awful regard and reverence . i might add too , that several of her rites and ceremonies are imposed under a most superstitious notion , either as sacraments conveying grace , or as having some special virtue in them , to atone the divine majesty , or to scare away the devil , &c. thirdly , it is my opinion too , that though their ceremonies were never so innocent in themselves , yet the multitude of them doth make them in the lump to cease to be indifferent . my reason is , because it is unconceiveable to me , but that so great a number must needs so employ the mind in the worship of god , as that it is not possible to be intent thereupon , and consequently must frustrate ( at least in a great measure ) the design of worship . but this is no reason to a papist , who cannot be thoroughly so , and acknowledge the necessity of exercising the mind in divine worship : for his holy mother hath taught him this mad and impious doctrine , that the sacraments confer grace , ex opere operato , from the work done , and so are differenced from those of the old testament , they conferring grace , ex opere operantis , from the work of the doer ; as also that a mere general attention in saying their prayers and numbering them over , is as much as is necessary . and if we can believe that we need not mind our prayers , we have no reason to blame those of them , who do not desire to understand them ; nor yet their church for enjoyning the saying them in a language which the generality of her children are ignorant of ; as if she designed in so doing to put an affront upon s. paul , who hath taught us in the most express terms the quite contrary doctrine , in the chapter of the first to the corinthians . to conclude this chapter : our notion of christian liberty is so very far from befriending popery , that 't is not possible it should have a greater enemy ; in that it so highly conduceth to the advancing of the true spirit and power of religion , and to the perfect ridding our minds of those two as great friends to popery , as pests to religion , and even humane society , viz. superstition and fanaticism . i mean by these two a base unworthy apprehension of the deity , and a blind , irrational , heady zeal . if it be said after all , that supposing the two notions of christian liberty , which we have now declared our sense 〈◊〉 be never so false , yet we are notwithstanding too confined in our notion ; in ●hat christian liberty doth not onely ●onsist in freedom from the dominion of 〈◊〉 and the other sad consequents of it , ●ut also in our freedom as to all things ●fan indifferent nature , to or from which ●e are not determined as by any divine , 〈◊〉 neither by any humane law : if this , ●say , be objected , our answer in one ●ord is this . this is not christian , but ●his is natural liberty . that of s. paul ●ving been in all ages , and in refe●ence to all sorts of people , as great a truth , as it hath been since our saviours ●ime and in reference to christians , viz. where no law is there is no transgression . chap. xiv . an answer to this question , whether the prescribing of forms of prayer , for the publick worship of god , be not an encroachment upon christian liberty ? wherein it is shewed , that this is not a stifling of the spirit , or restraining the exercise of his gift . and what in prayer is not , as also what is the gift of the spirit . whereby is occasioned an answer to another question , viz. whether an ability for preaching be properly a gift of the spirit . what hath been last discoursed gives me occasion to enquire , whether the imposing of a liturgy , or forms of prayer for the publick worship of god , be not an encroachment upon christian liberty ? i answer it is , if that principle taken up by very many among us be a true one , viz. that this is a stifling of the spirit , and a restraining of the exercise of one of his gifts . if this be so , i say , it can be no better than a very great invasion of christian liberty , and a far greater than the mere obliging men to things indifferent . for , as s. paul saith , cor. . . the mani●estation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal ; and therefore for christians to be limited in doing good by a gift of the spirit , must needs be a robbing them of that liberty , which christ in sending him design'd to give them . by the way , it shall be no part of my reply to say , that onely the ministers are here concerned , not at all the people : for although a conceived prayer of the minister be of the nature of a prescribed form to those that joyn with him , as to the confining their spirits , yet the people must needs be sufferers by means of their ministers being stinted in the exercise of a gift of the spirit , since it was designed for their profit ; and therefore upon this account , and moreover in regard of the countenance they will thereby give to authority in such a kind of sacrilegious usurpation of power over ministers , it cannot be justifiable in them to attend willingly upon such forms . but in order to the undeceiving of those , who are so tenacious of this conceit , that a prescribed liturgy is a hinderance to the free exercise of a gift of the spirit , i must freely profess , that i know of no gifts of the spirit which we have warrant from scripture to believe are continued to the church at this day , besides those which s. paul calls the fruits of the spirit , gal. . . where he saith , the fruit of the spirit is love , ioy , peace , long-suffering , gentleness , goodness , faith , meekness , temperance . these and the like christian graces , are gifts which the spirit still bestows , and therefore called graces . they are supernatural gifts as no man by his mere natural power can obtain them , but only by the spirit 's blessing of our endeavours ; and to the sincere use of the gospel-means the spirit is always ready to give his blessing . and the reason why in these latter ages , these blessed gifts are bestowed upon no more professors of christianity than they are , is because the generality of such are miserably wanting to themselves , and to the holy spirit , in refusing to do their part , and to cooperate with him : because they will not attend to the evidence the spirit hath given to the truth of the gospel , and therefore have too weak and ineffectual a belief thereof : because they will not consider the doctrine of the gospel ; they will not weigh well , and lay to heart its precepts , with the infinitely powerful motives wherewith they are inforced . because they will not listen to the spirits good motions and suggestions , whereby he works in men to will , and begets in them good resolutions , but do truly ●●ench the spirit ( though that phrase is ●sed in reference to his miraculous gifts ) and resist the holy ghost ; and because they will not make a believing application to him for his powerful assistance . i say it is upon these , and such like accounts , that the forementioned gifts of the spirit are so rare , and that the generality of those who are honoured with the title of christians are so destitute of them as we see they are . nay , multitudes are so befooled by the enemy of their souls , as to expect that the spirit should do all in them , without their doing any thing ; that he should make them temperate , righteous , charitable , meek , humble and submissive to god's will , heavenly-minded , and the like , without their due attendance upon those ordinances of the word , sacrament and prayer , and serious consideration and watchfulness over themselves , wherein alone we have ground to expect the powerful working of the divine grace in our souls . but , i say , though these gifts are observable in so very few comparatively , ( the account whereof i have briefly touched upon , and shewed that 't is mens own fault that they are not very common ) yet we have no warrant from scripture that i know of , to call those which are much more common , though they are by many so reputed , gifts of the spirit ; notwithstanding the prophecies and promises of so plentiful a pouring of him out in the times of the gospel . there were indeed common as well as more special gifts of the spirit in the first ages ; for the miraculous ones of speaking all manner of tongues , prophesying , healing all sorts of diseases , casting out devils , &c. which were the great witnesses to the truth of christianity , were very common . they were not only conferred upon the apostles , but the private believers : these signs , said our saviour , shall follow them that believe in my name , &c. mark . . and not onely on those believers who were sincere christians , but those also whose lives were not at all answerable to their christian profession , as appears by those words of our saviour , mat. . . and several of these miraculous gifts , we have full assurance from antiquity , did continue in the church , though in nothing so plentiful a measure , particularly those of healing , prophesying and casting out devils , till about the beginning of the fourth century , when providence blessed her with a christian emperor , and she came to be protected by his sword and laws ; and consequently stood not in such need of those gifts for the keeping her in heart , and the upholding her credit and reputation in the world. but as these have ceased for many ages , so the abovesaid fruits of the spirit are the onely endowments now remaining , which may in a more peculiar manner be ascribed to him ; that is , they are the onely supernatural endowments . as to that therefore which is commonly called the gift of prayer , we have these things to say , first , that we have not the least reason to believe , that the expressions of the very best mens prayers are now dictated by the holy ghost , or that they pray by the inspiration of the spirit as to words or matter . i know not that any sober men do pretend to such a gift as this in prayer , and too many of those that do pretend to it do manifestly declare by the management of their gift , that either they juggle and are gross cheats , or are sadly deluded . what slovenly , what ridiculous , what bold and impudent expressions are ordinarily heard from them ? and what a deal of nauseating stuff , that hath brought a vile scandal upon religion , and furnished atheistical and prophane people with matter of derision ? even such stuff as that it is no better than a blaspheming the holy ghost to father it upon him. but i delight not to insist upon this argument . it is objected , that s. paul saith , rom. . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought , but the spirit it self maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered . i answer , that this text makes not at all for the purpose of those who in this sence pretend to an ability of praying by the spirit . for , as for the apostle's saying , that we know not what to pray for as we ought , it is to be limited to temporal things , and wholly to them : for we do know that all those things which are necessary to our eternal felicity , viz. all spiritual blessings , are to be prayed for . and we do or may know what all those are without inspiration . but we do not know whether worldly prosperity or affliction may be best for us , or what measure of temporal good things , or what particulars of such good things ; and therefore in reference to these things , we are not to pray absolutely but conditionally , and with a willingness to be denied if god sees it not good to grant them to us . and the following words shew , that it is not therefore to be concluded , that the spirit will put it into good peoples hearts , what temporal things they should pray for , for they tell us that he will back their petitions in heaven by interceding for them , with unutterable groanings ; not that he will put words into their mouths , or suggest matter of prayer to them . i dare not say , the spirit never does thus , i should be then too bold ; but we have no ground to expect or hope he should , at least , in ordinary cases . in short , whosoever pretends that his prayers are dictated by the holy ghost , must have the very same opinion of them that he hath of the divinely inspired writings . secondly , i say consequently , that an ability of uttering our minds to almighty god in great variety of words and phrases , is as much a natural gift , or a gift acquired in an ordinary way , that is , by study and frequent practising and exercising , as any art or ability whatsoever . very bad men have been often known to have a notable faculty this way ; and so miserably weak and silly are abundance of people as to admire those for excellent christians in whom they perceive it , though they know them guilty of very great immoralities , and they have nothing to commend them but this faculty . but there is no man , if he will set himself to it , and he be made for it , that is , prepared with a sufficient measure of boldness and confidence , with a glib tongue and a warm head , but may be excellent at it . therefore , i say , how shamefully ignorant and childish are the vulgar sort ( i fear the much greater part ) that this dexterity at pouring forth words to the king of heaven without fear or wit , with a mighty voice , great earnestness , and abundance of action , shall gain to a man a greater repute with them for a precious christian , than all the above-mentioned real fruits of the spirit put together ? although any hypocrite that is qualified as we now said , may with the greatest ease attain to it . such a brave man as this shall lead multitudes by the nose , work his base designs upon them , and infuse what principles he listeth into them . such babies are the common people too generally in the affairs of religion , and their spiritual concerns . but , si populus vult decipi , decipiatur , if folk will be thus cheated and made a prey of , who can help it ? it may grieve us at the hearts to think , what work the popish priests and jesuits may hereafter make ( as we know that in disguises they have already made sad work ) among these silly sheep : no men in the world having a rarer knack at extemporary performances , and at feigning and raising of passions than many of them have . but , thirdly , the true spirit of prayer consisteth in a deep sense of the incomprehensible majesty of the great god , of the infinite distance that is between him and us , of our unspeakable obligations to him , and necessary dependance upon him : in an affecting sense of our own wretchedness and sinfulness , which makes us altogether unworthy to appear in his presence , or to receive the least favour at his hands : in a sense of his infinite goodness , wisdom and power , and an undoubted belief that whatsoever is really needful for us , he knoweth so to be , and is both able and willing to confer it upon us , when we ask it as we ought in the name of iesus . add hereunto entire resignation of our wills to the will of god , to have granted or denied to us , as shall seem most agreeable to his infinite wisdom , the good things of this present life ; and hungering and thirsting desires after righteousness , after those divine dispositions and qualifications which are necessary to our being made meet for the kingdom of heaven . in such things as these doth consist the soul and spirit of prayer : these are the absolutely necessary and essential ingredients thereof . but , fourthly , as for words , they are but a circumstantial part of prayer , and no farther necessary than as they tend to the more quickening our affections , exciting our desires , inlivening our sense of the forementioned objects , and keeping our minds fixed and intent ; and in publick prayer , or prayer with others , they are necessary to enable others to joyn with us . but the omniscient god understands the sense of our souls , the temper of our spirits , and the desires of our hearts , though no words be used for the expressing of them ; and always measures our prayers by those , not at all by these . i say not at all by words , because if they flow from an honest heart , and a good disposition of mind , they cannot be so faulty as to make a prayer unacceptable . and therefore it is the same thing to god whether a good sense and good desires be from time to time expressed by the same , or by variety of words and phrases : and he who is affected as he ought to be in the use of a form , who hath such desires and such a sense as he ought to have ( as thousands of good christians have ) hath as much the true spirit of prayer , and as much of it too , as he can have who hath the most notable faculty at varying his expressions . and he who hath this faculty but wants that sense and those good dispositions , is notwithstanding utterly destitute of the spirit of prayer . but it is incomparably most fit , that there should be a liturgy , or forms prescribed for the publick worship of god , for prayer and praising of god in the church , and for the celebration of the holy sacraments , with the other offices ; because the publick worship of god ought always to be performed with the greatest gravity and solemnity possible . but such a performance of divine worship can never be secured , where ministers are wholly left to their own liberty , and permitted to put up all the confessions , petitions and thanksgivings of the congregation , and to perform all the offices , in their own arbitrary and extemporary expressions . for though some ministers who take this liberty may pray excellently well when their heads are clear , and they are in a good temper , yet i doubt there are very few who have always that presence of mind , that composedness of thoughts , and constancy of temper as not to be forced sometimes to use many tautologies and indecent expressions . but however the church is never like to be provided with such ministers as shall be able , for the most part of them , to keep themselves from great confusion in their conceived prayers , from bald and absurd phrases , and from nauseating their auditory with repetitions of the same things , ful●om sayings , or lamentable misapplications of texts of scripture ; through over-much modesty or other infelicities of temper in some , and in others through ignorance , or weakness of natural parts , either slowness of invention or want of judgment . and besides , there is this necessity of having a liturgy , that without one there is no rational way of perswading strangers to hold communion with us : except we can shew them something which is acknowledged by common agreement for a form and method of divine worship , we cannot satisfie them what publick service we perform to god , it will then be so various , that is , as not alike in all places , so neither at all times in the same places . but to complete my answer to the question in hand . fifthly , the affecting us with a profound sense of the majesty and glorious perfections of the god we pray to , and of our own vileness and unworthiness ; and a submissive frame of mind to the divine will ; ardent breathings after more of the divine image and likeness ; and a lively faith in the power , wisdom and goodness of god , which are , as i said , the substantial and essential parts of prayer ; all these we heartily and thankfully acknowledge to be the gifts of the spirit . we own them to be so otherwise than all other good things which are every of them expressions of the divine bounty , and consequently gifts of the spirit as he is one of the persons of the blessed trinity : but we profess to owe them to the more special operations and influences of the holy ghost ; and for the working and encrease of these , all good christians do daily crave the spirits assistance . now i need not say , that to endeavour to put a restraint upon the exercise of such gifts as these is a most wicked invasion and violation of our christian liberty , according to our own notion of it . but what we have discoursed concerning prayer , gives me occasion to add something of preaching too , and to shew also how far an ability for that performance is to be ascribed to the holy spirit , or called one of his gifts . and consequently we may from hence be satisfied , whether a preacher of the gospel is in●●tled to such a liberty in reference to preaching as may not be limited by au●hority , or upon no accounts taken whol● from him , without putting an affront upon the holy spirit . first , it is out of doubt , that no man 〈◊〉 hath the gift of preaching in the demonstration of the spirit and of power , in the sence that s. paul and his fellow-apostles had it . for by the demonstration of the spirit and of power is meant those extraordinary gifts of speaking with tongues , prophecy and miracles accompanying their preaching , whereby they demonstrated the truth of the doctrine preached by them . and so origen understands it , in his book against cel●us . secondly , there is not the least ground to believe that any man hath now the gift of preaching by inspiration , or from the immediate revelation of the spirit . nor do any seriously pretend to it , but wild enthusiasts , brain-sick , melancholy and hot-headed people , who take their own fancies and whims , and the products of an ungoverned imagination for inspirations . i say none but those who plainly discover themselves to be such do seriously pretend to this gift , because there have been and still are a company of knaves in the world ( as is manifest by their actings ) who , for the carrying on their corrupt and naughty designs , pretend to that which they are conscious to themselves they have nothing of . but sober and honest preachers of the gospel do profess to deliver nothing to their people , but what they conceive to be long ago revealed ; but what they acknowledge they have with study and pains gathered from the holy scriptures , either immediately , or by plain consequence ; wherein are contained all things necessary to be believed and practised by us in order to salvation ; and which , without any additions , are able to make us wise to salvation ( as s. paul assures us ) and are a complete rule of faith and practice . and that preacher who shall offer to require his auditors assent to any thing not delivered , either in express terms or by plain consequence , in the writings of the old or new testament , doth impudently impose upon their belief , except he be able to work real miracles for the convincing of them . he takes more upon him , than either the apostles , or our saviour himself , who did still appeal to the works , the supernatural works he did , to attest the truth of the doctrine he delivered . i would such impudent imposers were onely to be found among the romanists ( who are all so , and the most impudent that ever appeared upon the stage of the world ) but alas , they are too too common also among professed haters of popery . thirdly , and as to the sence of the more difficult places of scripture , no sober preacher pretends to come to the knowledge thereof by the immediate illumination of the spirit , but such a one acknowledgeth he doth it in the general by the exercise of his reason : and particularly by considering the proper signification of words and phrases in the original languages ; by comparing scripture with scripture ; by searching into the ancient customs , which give great light to a great number of texts , and without the knowledge of which they are not to be understood ; by enquiring after the judgment of those who lived nearest to the times of the apostles , &c. and after all , they submit their expositions of such texts to the judgments of their hearers , i mean such of them as are capable of judging . as for others , oportet discentes credere , it becomes learners to give credit to their teachers . and credendum est peritis in suâ arte. but , fourthly , we do piously , and by the authority of scripture believe , that the spirit is ready to assist us in our reasonings and enquiries , and whatsoever particular good means we use for the understanding of scripture , when he is humbly and devoutly sought to by us ; and when without the least prejudice , partiality , ill design , or sinister respect , but for the best of ends , and from the pure love of truth , we make enquiry . thus even private christians are assisted in the searches and enquiries which they are able to make : for god hath promised that the meek he will guide in judgment , and the meek he will teach his way . fifthly , in composing also of profitable discourses , as we implore , so we have the divine assistance , but we see no ground to believe that we have it in any other manner , than in other good works of what nature soever . but as for the ready faculty of discoursing from a pulpit , and popular speaking to a congregation , we have no reason to believe it a gift of the spirit , any more than the lawyers strange readiness in pleading at the bar. and a volubility of speech upon any subject whatsoever , heat of fancy , and nimbleness of wit and invention , are as much to be attributed to the holy spirit as such a faculty . and hence we may gather , that a preacher of the gospel can plead no such liberty as is wholly exempted from restraints by authority . but one that is known to have never so good a talent at preaching may be forbidden the exercise of it , till he hath submitted to a lawful ordination , such as was in use in the churches of christ for fifteen hundred years together . and when ordained , he may lawfully have bounds set him as to the places where he shall exercise his ministry in publick , and as to the times when . and he may be forbidden to meddle with such arguments as are above the reach of his peoples understandings , or are not like to conduce to their edification , and much more to broach dangerous doctrines , that is , such as are so in the judgment of his governours . and for his disobedience , and other misdemeanours , he is as liable to be suspended or totally deprived of his ministerial office , as are any other officers . i do but touch upon and give light glances at these things , because my present subject will not give me leave to discourse largely upon them , which would be too great a digression from its proper business . chap. xv. a third false notion of christian liberty , viz. that which makes liberty of conscience a branch of it . two things premised , . that conscience is not so sacred a thing as to be uncapable of being obliged by humane laws . . that no man can properly be deprived of the true liberty of his conscience by any power on earth . that what is contended for , is more properly liberty of practice than of conscience . the author's opinion in reference to this liberty delivered in ten propositions . that whatsoever liberty of this nature may be insisted on as our right , it is not christian liberty but natural liberty . thirdly and lastly , i proceed to that notion of christian liberty , which makes liberty of conscience a branch of it . but before i deliver my opinion about this weighty point , which hath occasioned as great feuds and sharp contests as any whatsoever , i shall premise two things : first , that conscience is not so sacred a thing as to be uncapable of being obliged by humane laws . secondly , that no man can properly be deprived of the true liberty of his conscience by any power on earth . first , that conscience is not so sacred a thing , as to be uncapable of being obliged by humane laws . this is sufficiently clear from what is discoursed in the thirteenth chapter . but it is said by many that god is the onely lord of conscience , and therefore it is the highest presumption for men to go about to bind it by their laws . it is the sole prerogative of the deity to search the heart , and try the reins of the children of men ; conscience is too inward and secret a thing to fall under mans cognizance , and therefore what have any of our fellow-creatures to do to give laws to our consciences ? in answer hereunto , we have already seen what s. paul's sense is about this matter , that he saith , we must needs be subject , or obedient , and that not only for wrath , but also for conscience sake . so that the apostle was far from thinking , that the obligation of humane authority is founded in mere prudence , not at all in conscience . but no man in his wits will say , that the laws of men do oblige conscience as the laws of god do . those cannot do it immediately as these do , but onely by virtue of the divine authority . s. paul saith , rom. . . let every soul be subject to the higher powers : i think i shall not be over-critical in saying , that is every conscience , for what follows proves the obligation of conscience to subjection , and is an answer to the foresaid objection against it , viz. for there is no power but of god , the powers that be are ordained of god , whosoever therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of god , &c. so that all we assert is this , that we are bound to obey our lawful governours for god's sake , who hath invested them with the authority they have over us , and commanded us to obey those laws of theirs which are not contradictory to any of his. nor do we say that humane authority can make more duties or sins than god hath made , or to speak properly and strictly , can make any thing to be a duty or sin ; for it can only command or forbid , and what it commands , if lawful , the divine authority makes it a duty , and what it forbids , if not a duty , the divine authority makes it a sin. or to speak in the words of the learned bishop taylor : humane authority doth not make the action of disobedience to be a sin. it makes that the not compliance of the subject is disobedience ; but it is the authority of god which makes disobedience to be a sin. and what immediately follows deserves also to be transcribed in this place , viz. and though no humane power can give or take grace away , yet we may remember , that we our selves throw away god's grace , or abuse it or neglect it , when we will not make use of it to the purposes of humility , charity and obedience , all which are concerned in our subordination to the laws . there is also this difference between the obligations of divine and humane laws , viz. the divine laws bind our thoughts and the sense of our minds , they bind us not onely to obey them , but to think them also wise and good laws . but so do not humane laws , they oblige onely to obedience , but not to the thinking them such as ought , or are fit , to be imposed . a man may think a humane law imprudent or unreasonable , and be guilty of no transgression , if notwithstanding he complies with it ; i mean , provided he keeps his thoughts to himself , or does not make them publick . the forementioned worthy prelate layeth down no sewer than ten or eleven differences of divine and humane laws in their obligation , in his ductor dubitantium : whether they will all hold or no , or may not be reduced to a smaller number , i will not take upon me to say ; but thither i refer the reader . and thus much may serve to be spoken to the first thing premised , viz. that conscience is not so sacred a thing as to be uncapable of being bound by humane laws . secondly , i premise also , that no man can be deprived properly of the true liberty of his conscience by any power on earth , i mean without his own consent ; no mortal nor any creature is able to invade it . this will appear by considering what that is , which is called conscience . conscience is the mind of a man considered as possessed with certain practical principles , and comparing his own actions with those principles , doth , according as he finds them agreeing or disagreeing with them , judge of himself ; either absolve or condemn himself . so that there are three offices of conscience : the first is , that of assenting to and embracing certain practical principles as laws for the governing a man's self . the second is , that of comparing ones self , or actions , with those rules or principles . the third , that of passing judgment of ones self accordingly . now that is properly liberty of conscience , and that onely , which relates to the execution of these three offices . but the acts of conscience in executing these offices being all internal , and within a mans soul , how can its liberty in exerting those acts be infringed by any humane power ? what earthly power can make me assent to or believe what it pleaseth ? can so give laws to my conscience , as to necessitate me to receive them for such , and to think them good laws , and safe to steer my actions by ? again , how can any such power deprive me of my liberty to compare my actions with such rules as i think i am obliged to be governed by ? and , having reflected upon my self and actions , and made this comparison , how can any such power abridge me of liberty to absolve my self , if i find my actions agreeing with those rules , or to condemn my self , if i find the contrary ? can make me condemn when i ought to acquit my self , or acquit when i see reason to condemn my self ? so that the liberty which is with so much heat contended for by some , and inveighed against by others , under the name of liberty of conscience , is truly and properly liberty of practice , not of conscience . and the great thing in contest is , whether a liberty of doing what a man's conscience tells him he ought to do , and of forbearing what it tells him he ought to forbear , be an inviolable right , and not to be invaded by humane authority ? this being the true state of the question , i shall endeavour an answer thereunto in these following propositions . prop. . that there are two extremes about this matter to be carefully avoided . first , that of asserting an unlimited liberty of practising according to a mans conscience . secondly , that of over-great severity in restraining this liberty . first , as to the extreme of asserting an unlimited liberty of practising according to a man's conscience : this will appear to be an extreme indeed , and a very wild and mad one , if we consider that there is scarcely any thing so extravagant or wicked , but the consciences of some or other may urge them to it . nay , it is certain that men have pretended conscience for some of the most impious and most villanous actions in the world. so the papists have done among our selves we all know ; and another sort of people too , whose principles , though very bad , were better than theirs . and it is not possible for us to know that their pretences of conscience were m●re pretences . nor is it hard for us to perswade our selves , that through the just judgment of god for past provocations , the spirit of delusion may be permitted to have such power over some mens consciences , as that they shall call evil good and good evil , put darkness for light and light for darkness , and bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter ; for we find a woe pronounced against such as do so , esay . . which there would not have been , if there were no such men , nor could be . and it is said of some , thess. . , , . that , because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved , god shall send them ( or permit to be sent them ) strong delusions ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , strength of delusion ) that they should believe a lie : that they all might be damned , who believed not the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousness . our saviour foretold his disciples , iohn . . that the time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doth god service . that is , the time is coming , when men shall kill you out of conscience . as no doubt the papists have done many thousands of good christians : and it is well known that their principles are such , as that they cannot be true to them , and not think themselves bound in conscience to stab and poison , burn and massacre all without exception whom they call hereticks , whensoever an opportunity is put into their hands . s. paul , as cruel a persecutor of christians as he was before his conversion , did then think not onely that he did what was lawful , but that he did his duty too . for , saith he , acts . . i verily thought with my self ( or i was verily perswaded in my conscience ) that i ought to do many things contrary the name of jesus of nazareth . among which things he reckoneth in the two following verses , shutting up many of the saints in prison , and giving his voice against them to be put to death , and compelling them to blaspheme . no man is able to imagine what dismal effects superstition and enthusiasm may have upon the mind and conscience . so that this will be easily granted me by men of any sobriety , that that which they call liberty of conscience must be limited by governours , if they will have any concern for the honour of god , the welfare of religion , the safety of the community , and the preservation of government ; it being impossible that there should be any such thing as government , if all shall be exempt from punishment who shall plead conscience for their disobedience ; nay , though they should be known to plead it never so truly . now it being so evident that conscience may and must be restrained in its liberty , we clearly gain one point by it , and that no small one , viz. that liberty of conscience is not to be necessarily allowed under the notion of liberty of conscience : for this liberty as such is not an inviolable right , if it be not to be claimed in all cases without exception . secondly , as to that which we call the other extreme of over-great severity in restraining this liberty , no man surely will question but that there may be an erring on this hand also . but how to steer betwixt scylla and charybdis , these two extremes , is , i think , one of the greatest difficulties : and requires a conjunction of the greatest prudence with as great goodness . but as to what measures in the general are to be taken , we will adventure modestly to suggest our thoughts in the propositions that follow . prop. . no such liberty of conscience ( for so for fashions-sake wee 'l call it ) is by any means to be allowed , as is apparently injurious to the community , and such a liberty as can have no ill publick influence in the church or state , both may and ought to be granted . the welfare of the community with respect to both its civil and spiritual interests is the business and design of government , and the welfare of particular persons , as they are parts of the community . therefore not to grant to particular persons as much liberty of what nature soever , as is consistent with the general good or well-being of the whole , is to hold the reins too strait , and to be over-severe and arbitrary . but it must be left to the iudgment of our governours , what measure and proportion of liberty may be safely vouchsafed , with respect to the interest of the community , both because they are to be presumed the fittest judges of this affair , and because it is wholly inconsistent with government for every private person to be his own judge . but ( as i need not add ) governours are obliged as they will answer it to their judge , not to be hasty in making a judgment , but to do it with the greatest wariness and deliberation , because their being mistaken in this point may happen to be of very evil and mischievous consequence . prop. . it is a very plain case that men ought to have the liberty of enjoying their opinions to themselves , without their being extorted by penalties from them . this follows from the foregoing proposition , and if that be true this can't be false . for if such a liberty ought to be granted as hath no ill aspect upon the community , then no body should be compelled to discover his opinions , because whilest they are kept within a mans own breast , they can do no hurt to other folk , and if they discover themselves by overt-acts ( as the lawyers speak ) there is no need of using violent means for the extorting of them . which is the cruel practice of the roman church , and our own nation knew it by sad experience in the reign of queen mary . how many excellently good christians were then sentenced to the stake for their mere refusing to subscribe to their as wicked as false doctrine of the sacrifice of the altar ? prop. . to make sanguinary laws against mere dissenting from the publick establishment , that is , when dissenting from it is not accompanied with a factious , schismatical and seditious opposition to it , is without controversie antichristian tyranny . of all the indefensible practices of the now mentioned church , there is none that makes the title of antichrist more due to her , than her prosecuting with fire and faggot , and all manner of cruelties , men who are guilty of no other crime but that of renouncing communion with her in her gross corruptions . but suppose her terms of communion were as agreeable as they are contrary to the word of god , yet would her putting men to death for their bare not submitting to those terms , speak her to be utterly destitute of the true christian spirit : and to deserve that reprehension which her mild and gentle master gave to his disciples for desiring him to call for fire from heaven to destroy the samaritans for refusing to receive him , viz. ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of ; for the son of man came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them . and if our saviour was so offended with those disciples for making that motion , though he knew 't was not made deliberately , but in a sudden fit of passion , and that kindled too by the quick resentment they had of an high affront that was put upon his sacred person , how highly must it needs provoke him to see christians destroying their brethren in cool bloud , and that not for so hainous a crime as renouncing his religion , but for not being christians of their mode and form : which possibly considering all their circumstances ( particularly their education , the prejudices of which it is the most difficult thing in the world one of them to overcome , their parts , complexions , &c. ) may be more their misfortune than their fault . besides sanguinary penalties , or the using of extreme rigour of any kind to compel men to come over to our way of religion , are the most improper means to effect that end ; that of lactantius being as great a truth in all ages as it was in his and the two foregoing , when the church was subject to the heathen persecutors , viz. religion is a thing to which no man can be forced , the will is perswaded by words not by blows . and the arguments used by the most ancient fathers against persecuting people for mere dissenting in matters of religion are as strong against the persecuting practices of rome christian , as they were against those of rome pagan . and this means hath proved always as unsuccessful as it is improper , the best success it hath ever had hath been to make some hypocrites , and the rest more averse and obstinate than they were before . that way of religion they before disliked , they now hate , and oppression making even wise men mad ( as king solomon observeth ) multitudes from modest dissenters in their own defence turn factious and seditious , and down-right opposers . and nothing hath been more ordinarily observed , than that persecution doth mightily encrease instead of diminishing the number of dissenters . as it is grown into a maxim , sanguis martyrum est semen ecclesiae , the bloud of martyrs is the seed of the church , so nothing makes any party so considerable , nor any thing gains them so many proselytes , as their bearing death or torment or any cruel usage like martyrs ; which we need not be informed the very worst of men have frequently done . thanks be to god the church of england is as far departed from that of rome in this point of merciless severity , as in the rest of her abominations . which hath made me stand amazed at the tragical out-cries of one or two of late against our church , as if the inquisition it self could hardly match her in her savage cruelty towards sober dissenters . such libellers as these have as little wit as christianity or common honesty ; for can they more expose their reputation than by publishing to the world such things as every body can confute from his own knowledge . these people cannot but believe in their consciences ; that modest dissenters ( nor immodest neither as themselves know by experience ) cannot hope to have fairer quarter in any part of the christian world , where there is any establishment , than they have in this church . nay , that there is hardly any one party of the dissenters that would be half so favourable to the rest , should they get into power , as our constitution is to all of them . the principal of our divided parties 't is well known have been tried in england , scotland and new-england , and how exemplary they have been for their moderation towards men of a different perswasion is too well understood to be quickly forgotten . but old sores shall not bleed afresh by my rubbing them , as great provocation as is given by some at the most unseasonable time imaginable . prop. . but , notwithstanding what we have now ▪ asserted , there is a necessity of making it more mens interest to comply with the publick establishment , than not to comply with it : which cannot be done , so long as those who are conformable thereunto , and those which dissent from it , are both put into the self-same circumstances . it is as good , nay better , to have no legal establishment at all , than not to back it with motives of temporal interest , to disswade from disobedience to it ; it is so , so long as this sort of interest hath so great a power over the generality of men , nay of professors of religion too , as we see it hath ; and so few comparatively are governed by pure reason and conscience , as great pretences as there are to both . penalties of one nature or other are necessary sanctions of laws , and were it not for the annexing of them , laws would be so far from being generally obeyed , that they would be generally despised and contemned . nay , the perverse natures of men do so incline them niti in vetitum , to do what 's prohibited , through their excessive fondness for liberty , that i am perswaded the way to have this or that done by the far greater part , would be for authority to forbid it without a penalty . and as for that objection , that civil penalties make men hypocrites ; how is it possible that those who make it should not at the same time see , that it is as much levelled at all laws , as at those which relate to matters of religion ? then men ought not to be prohibited murther , adultery or theft under civil penalties , because they will be apt to make them hypocrites ; as 't is certain those are no better , who abstain from those crimes from the mere fear of the lash of the law. but it is better for the publick that men should be hypocrites in their obedience , than that they should live in disobedience , and somewhat better for themselves too . and no man will be made a hypocrite by penalties , but such a one as would disobey and be an open sinner were it not for them . i add , that this objection is also levelled at leaving it to every bodies liberty to comply or not comply with the legal establishment . what a temptation would this be to those to plead scruples of conscience against some condition of communion , who are only swayed by some motive of interest ( to get better trading , to please their wives or the like ) to leave the church , and joyn themselves to separate congregations . prop. . we must distinguish between a liberty of serving god according to our consciences , and a liberty of making others to be of our perswasion . there is a wide difference between these two . it is inconsistent with government for this latter liberty to be allowed . nothing can come of authorities giving licence to dissenters to make proselytes to their several parties , but downright confusion . i appeal to themselves , whether if any of them now sate at the helm , and were in the chair of government , they could endure to have their authority publickly confronted ; they know they could not , and much less give liberty , that is encouragement , to those to confront it who have a mind to it . but what is it to put an affront upon authority , if publick endeavours to withdraw people from obedience be not so ? it is the greatest immodesty to desire of governours such a liberty as this , and supposeth them either not to understand or to have no concern for their own interest as governours . and those that dissent from the legal establishment ought to think themselves most kindly dealt with , and to be very thankful , may they enjoy upon tolerable terms their own way of religion , without free licence to do all they can to encrease their party . how happy would our good ancestors in the reign of queen mary have thought themselves , had her majesty vouchsafed them such a liberty as that ! they would hardly have thought they could pay too dear for 't . it may be objected , what if a man be immediately commissionated by the king of kings , as the apostles were , publickly to withdraw men from obedience to those laws which require of them unlawful things , and withal he prove his commission by working of miracles , is not authority obliged to give liberty so to do in that case ? surely it is . i answer , surely it is not , but 't is obliged to do that which is much better than giving this liberty , and which will prevent all need of it , namely , to repeal those laws as soon as ever it appears they are displeasing to god ; and so to make the doing contrary to them no disobedience . but if this be not done , the commissionated person ought not to expect that authority should give him this liberty , but he ought to take it , and to be confident that god will stand by him in so doing . prop. . those laws that enjoyn or forbid things in their own nature indifferent , ought not to be inforced with as severe penalties , as those which are made for or against those things which are good or evil in themselves , which are commanded or prohibited by the divine laws . or the transgressors of the majora jura , the laws of heaven should be more severely punisht , than the transgressors of mere humane laws . 't is certain that the former sort of offenders do deserve worse than the latter do . their crimes are of an higher nature and more intolerable , and therefore it is highly fit that they should be greater sufferers than the other offenders , for the more effectual scaring of others from following their example , or doing like them . all offences against the state are not alike punished , neither should all those which are against the church . no good man will question , but that 't is a greater sin to be a separatist than a mere dissenter in some things ; and also not to worship god at all than to worship him in an illegal way . to make no conscience of receiving the lord's supper , than to scruple the gesture he is obliged to receive it in . or , that profaneness is more hateful than unaffected scrupulosity or superstition . and therefore i think the self-same or equal penalties should not belong to both . common equity requires this ; and according to this rule our judge hath foretold us he will at the last day proceed with the disobedient . and by this means will no pretence be left to those , who take all occasions to censure their governours , for the reproaching of them , as laying too great weight upon things little in themselves , as placing religion in them , and equalizing their own traditions with ( and much less preferring them , pharisee like , before ) the commandments of god ; and as having less zeal for gods glory than for keeping up the reputation of their own authority . and for the same as well as an higher reason it is necessary , that as great care at least should be taken to bring the open immediate transgressors of god's laws to condign punishment , as those who only are transgressors of mere humane laws . but there is one thing more that i would not have forgotten , that the dreadful censure of excommunication ought not to be past upon any but the greatest offenders ; among which ( that i may not be mistaken ) i account ( as the primitive church did ) all schismaticks as well as prophane persons . to make the smaller offenders liable to it , be it done upon what pretence it will , is the readiest way to make it contemptible . and nothing is more contrary to the practice of the apostles or the first ages than so to do . prop. . most favour may be reasonably expected by such dissenters as give the greatest reason to judge that they are really conscientious in their dissenting . if any liberty be left by law to the magistrate to shew favour in pitiable circumstances , whatsoever it is , such dissenters ought to have the benefit of it . and those may be presumed to be conscientious in reality as well as pretence , who first , are observed to make conscience of the great and indisputable duties of religion . and secondly , who comply with the establishment as far as they can , for ought that appeareth to the contrary . these we are bound in charity to believe are sincerely conscientious in stopping where they do . this proposition needs no proving ; and this other is as clear , viz. those who give greatest evidence of their being conscientious have most right to favour . but although it be not an indisputable case , that he makes no conscience in some smaller things who makes none in certain great ones ; or that he who goes not as far as he declares he can , is a mere pretender to conscience in what he saith he cannot do , yet there is no injury done him if his governours have a strong suspicion of him , and he fare the worse upon that account . he must then thank himself for it , and not blame them . prop. . those have least reason to ask or look for liberty of conscience or any thing of indulgence , who are for no bodies having it besides themselves , and give great reason to presume by their behaviour in their present circumstances , that were they in authority they would give none to those from whom they now expect it . such are all those who are not contented to disobey the present laws , nor to draw others to their party as much as in them lies , but cannot forbear railing at , and passing the severest and most uncharitable censures , in their common discourse , and in the pulpit and press too , upon their spiritual governours especially , and those who are conformable to the constitution . 't is not at all to be questioned but such people would persecute otherwise than with their tongues or pens , if ever they should be furnisht with more dangerous weapons . he who shews his teeth at me , i have reason to suspect would make them meet , were he able to bite ; in so doing he shews his good will and what he would gladly be at , had he an opportunity . i wish the papists were the onely people i could now reflect upon . such too are all our peremptory dogmatizers in disputable points of religion , who cannot bear to be contradicted , though never so modestly , as if they had gotten the popes chair from him , and their judgments were the standard of orthodoxy . from whose sentiments you may not depart scarcely one hairs breadth , but you immediately fall under suspicion of heresie , or some dangerous error . i should be very loth these stiff and supercilious men should ever live to be my masters ; if they should , i doubt not ●ut i should soon feel that they have cru●●ty answerable to their pride , as much ●s some of them now cry out for liberty ●f conscience . the men i have now in my thoughts ●re not onely ( as i said of the other ) ●he roman gentlemen , but certain pro●●ssed protestants ( as like papists as they ●ook ) and those of more than one mode and form. such again are those , who , as impa●ent as themselves are of all restraints , ●re very angry that the conformable clergy are no more restrained , that is , ●n doctrinals . who would have the ●hirty nine articles more than nine ●nd forty , and are not a little grieved that several points are so expressed , as to admit of a latitude of interpretation . who can believe but that these men would be far more severe restrainers of liberty , than those whom they so complain of ? i say far more severe , for there is no considerative ingenuous and free-minded man but had rather have twenty harmless rites imposed on his practice , than two disputable and uncertain doctrines upon his belief . and such lastly are those parties , who , whensoever they have had opportunity , have been rigidly severe to dissenters from themselves . what security can we possibly have , that those who for the time past have been persecutors , whenever they had power in their hands , will never be so for the time to come , if they should have power ? especially if they still retain those principles which naturally tend to make men cruel . here if i expatiated i would have onely to do with the popish faction , and spare others , who though they have been too guilty in this respect , yet not comparably to them . what is better known throughout the christian world , than the horrible tyranny of the romish church , than her most barbarous and savage cruelties towards those who would not worship that beast and his image , and would not receive the mark of his name ? what an ocean of bloud hath this ravenous beast shed of the saints and of the prophets of god ? the history of pagan rome's cruelties towards the christians in the ten famous persecutions is far out-done by that of rome christian ( i had rather say rome antichristian ) towards poor protestants . guess we what a prodigiously vast number have fallen as sacrifices to her devilish fury by two or three instances . it is computed that in the massacre in paris , and other parts of france , were butchered about an hundred thousand . that of the albigenses and waldenses were murthered no fewer than a thousand thousand . that within the space of forty years from the founding of the blessed order of the iesuits , were murthered about nine hundred thousand . that the holy inquisition in the space of thirty years destroyed with an infinite number of cruelties an hundred and fifty thousand . that in the low countries duke alva , that bloudy bigot of rome , caused to be executed about six thousand . and what great numbers did suffer here in england purely upon the score of religion in the reigns of king henry the eighth and queen mar● ? and what work the priests and jesuits and other of the sons of rome had ere this time been employed in again among us , if their ●ate horrid conspiracy had taken effect , we very well know . those know no more of the principles or spirit of popery than a sucking infant , who can give the least credit to their most solemn promises of a toleration of , or indulgence towards protestants , although they should back them with never so many sacred oaths upon the holy bible , and pawn their souls upon their fulfilling them with never so tremendous and direful execrations . and yet these men are so void of all shame , that ever since the reformation they have turned every stone to obtain a toleration of their religion among us : and that notwithstanding the plainest demonstrations which from time to time they have given us , that they seek it for no other end , but that by the means of it they may do that by fraud against our religion and all that 's dear to us , which ( thanks be to god ) they are not strong enough to do by force , nor by any other methods of fraud neither . though they could never yet obtain a legal toleration , yet they have not wanted for indulgence and kind usage , but this hath been so far from melting them into good nature , that they have still taken advantage from thence to lay designs for our ruine . at that very time ( and for some time before ) when their gunpowder conspiracy , not to be thought of without the greatest horror , was projected and almost effected by them , did king iames treat them with not onely extraordinary clemency , but also friendship and bounty . at the trial of the traitors , his majestie 's attorny general observed , that that treason was hatched at a time , when the king used the greatest lenity towards the papists , whom he honoured with advancement and favour as well as others , and by the space of a whole year and four months took no penalties by statute of them . and this likewise the king himself remembred them of , the more to convince them of their prodigious ingratitude . and to pass by their conspiring the death of king charles the first of most happy memory , and afterwards effecting it by the hands of the fanaticks ( whose instruments they were , not onely in the not to be parallel'd murder of that excellently pious prince , all circumstances of it considered , but also in the long civil war preceding it , as doctor peter du-moulin hath discovered in his answer to philanax anglicus ) i say to pass by all that , to which nothing could provoke them except the most gentle , gracious and kind usage , 't is known to every body , that nothing neither except the like usage could provoke them to this last most inhumane and hellish conspiracy . and yet , notwithstanding they have always been to us like the philistines to the israelites , sharp thorns in our sides , and pricks in our eyes , are they still so impudent as to insist upon it as their right to have liberty of conscience ; and hope with the assistance of their old tried tools at last to obtain it . and 't is matter of grief and astonishment to us , that these will not yet see , though it be as visible as the light , that if with their help they do obtain it , the best recompence they shall receive for their good service will be the inslaving of themselves , and the ruine of their religion . i thought not of so far enlarging upon this proposition , but considering into what a large field i was entered , i found it somewhat difficult to break off so soon . prop. . in the last place , governours ought not to impose any thing but for weighty reasons ; but what upon the maturest deliberation they judge to be necessary , or ( upon one account or other ) very highly expedient . to make little and insignificant things the matter of laws is the readiest course to beget in the people a sleighting of authority , and to lessen the veneration that is due to laws ; and also gives ill-minded persons a great advantage , and puts plausible objections into their mouths against the government . but , having taken leave to say what becomes governours , i am obliged to add , that private persons are no competent judges of the necessity or expediency of laws . and that it very ill becomes them to be forward to censure those as needless , the reason of which is unknown to them . 't is an argument of great immodesty and pride to think , that we who stand upon the lower ground can see as far as those who are so much above us : and a very little prudence and humility will serve to convince us , that those much better understand the methods of government than we do , and what is fit to be imposed , whose whole business and employment it is to govern. we have certain rules whereby to judge of the lawfulness of things imposed , but we may be easily mistaken when we undertake to determine of the fitness of them . thus having with submission to my superiors offered my opinion about this weighty argument in the foregoing propositions , i hope i shan't be censured as immodest if i also add , that i do not see but governours might avoid the two extremes in reference to liberty of conscience , as it is called , by having a constant regard to such like rules . and that the governed , on the other hand , by doing the like , might understand without much difficulty , within what bounds they ought to confine themselves , in craving of their governours or expecting from them this kind of liberty . but i think it seasonable to suggest this one thing more to these , that they would so behave themselves , that those who have power to grant it as far as is sitting , might not be tempted to think it a thing onely adapted to the serving of interest , and by that means be the more inclined to a total refusing of any such liberty . i mean , that there be no occasion given to what is so commonly , not without ground , said , viz. when 't is mens temporal interest to plead for liberty of conscience , then they are zealous for it , but the tables are no sooner turned , but who like them against it . were we as honest as we should be , we should be more fixed and constant , and not so vary in our principles as our circumstances vary . we should not in one circumstance build what before we destroyed , and in another destroy what we before built : and so declare amidst all our stir and noise about liberty of conscience , that we have either none at all , or but very little conscience . but in the conclusion of all , i must not forget that which hath occasioned all this discourse about liberty of conscience , viz. that whatever that liberty of this kind is which we have a right to , it is not a branch of christian but of mere natural liberty . there is no text of scripture that mentioneth this as a liberty of our saviour's purchasing , and therefore no christian may claim it as a christian. 't is due to men of all religions , who may be supposed to make conscience of what they do , and not only to the professors of the christian religion . and 't was always and in all places as much mens right , as it hath been since our saviour's appearance in the world , and is in those parts of it where his gospel is received . chap. xvi . the third inference from our notion of christian liberty , viz. that popery is the greatest enemy in the world thereunto . where it is shewed , first , that the church of rome robs those who are subject to her of that natural liberty which necessarily belongs to them as they are men , viz. that which consists in the free use of their vnderstandings in matters of religion . that she will not permit men to examine either her doctrines or practices by the holy scriptures ; nor yet to receive the holy scriptures themselves otherwise than upon her authority . the wickedness of this exposed in two particulars . the alledging of scripture for it , shewed to be the grossest absurdity . their great text tim. . . spoken to . her tyranny over mens minds further shewed . having now spoken to all the false notions of christian liberty that i know of , and discovered the intolerable mischievousness of them as well as falsity ; i proceed to another inference from our notion thereof , namely ; thirdly , that popery is a religion ( if i honour it not too much in calling it so ) that is the greatest enemy in the whole world to christian liberty . should all the wicked wits in the world meet together to consult and complot how to banish out of it this liberty , they could not devise more effectual means for the doing of it than those which are pitch'd upon by the church of rome . and here we will shew , first , that she robs those who subject themselves to her , of that natural liberty which necessarily belongs to them as they are men , or reasonable creatures . and much more , secondly , that she robs them of that liberty , which it was the design of our saviour's coming into the world , and of all he did and suffered here to instate us in . first , that she robs those , who subject themselves to her , of that natural liberty , which necessarily belongs to them as men , or reasonable creatures . there is no liberty so essential to humane nature , or so much its inviolable right , as that which consists in the free use of our understandings : but a papist is miserably tied up and inslaved here ; and that in those matters wherein it is of infinitely the greatest importance and concernment to him , that his mind should be free , namely in matters of religion ; which have such a necessary influence into the welfare of our souls and our eternal happiness . but , notwithstanding that injunction of s. paul , thes. . . prove all things , hold fast that which is good . and that of s. iohn , epist. . . beloved believe not every spirit , but try the spirits whether they be of god , &c. this church denieth to her children all judgment of discretion in points of religion ; at least except in this one point , the choice of the church for their guide , which having chosen , they must follow her blind-fold all their lives after . they must be implicit believers , and implicit chusers , she will 〈◊〉 and believe for them : all their ●●dgment and faith must be resolved into h●rs ; as being , if you will believe her , 〈◊〉 and uncapable of being either deceiv●● 〈◊〉 self , or of deceiving others . and therefore , to take our saviour's 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 th● scriptures , except for the forementioned one thing , ( nay , for that too , as we shall see anon ) is to put an affront upon her authority ; and the bereans , who were so highly commended for so doing , were guilty of great sauciness and high presumption . and she takes the most successful course that can be thought of , that you shall not search the scriptures , by locking them up as she does , and making the bible so scarce a book to be light upon , where she hath power enough to do it ; and in those places where her power is clipt , by using a many wicked artifices to keep the vulgar from looking into it ; who are so miserably imposed upon by their wretched priests , as to think it a lighter sin to be drunk or to commit fornication , and transgress many an express law of god , than to cast their eyes upon the holy scriptures . so well aware is this church , that a great part of her religion is neither to be found there , nor agreeable with them , but as expresly , as it can be done by words , contradicted by them . and as you may not examine any of her doctrines or practices by comparing them with the rule of faith and practice , the scriptures , so neither ( which is but a necessary consequence from thence ) may you have any other foundation for your belief of the books of scripture themselves , besides her authority . she will have your assent to their being of divine authority to depend wholly upon her testimony ; notwithstanding that god almighty hath vouchsafed to the world marvellously full and plentiful evidence thereof , and such as is adapted to the capacities of all those who have the use of reason , but never once mentioned this as a part of that evidence , and therefore much less can it be thought the whole . how infinitely ill hath this corrupt church deserved at the hands of all christians , although this were the onely abuse she had put upon them ! for ( to say nothing of her horrible pride and uncharitableness in making the truth of the scriptures dependent on her testimony , that her pretence supposing her making her self the onely true church ) this is the greatest injury imaginable to christianity ; nor can she take a surer course than this to make all men infidels . and that upon these two accounts . first , this pretence of hers is immediately founded upon a precarious and most evidently false principle , viz. that of her infallibility . i dare appeal to those of her own sons who have studied the controversie , whether there was ever a more shamefully baffled cause in the world than this is : whether by their infallible church they mean with the iesuits the pope alone , or with others the pope with his general council , that is , a pack of bishops and priests of his own faction . as the psalmist saith , if the foundations be destroyed , what shall the righteous do ? so if this be the foundation of our christian faith , and that be proved to be a rotten foundation ( as nothing was ever proved if this be not ) then what shall we christians do ? we must then acknowledge our selves a generation of most credulous fools , and that our faith is vain . if the foundation be tottering , the whole superstructure must fall to the ground . but so fond is this unsatiably covetous and ambitious church of her great diana infallibility , by the pretence whereof she hath raised her self to such a height and grandeur , that she is well content , if that must fall , that our saviour and his apostles , both the old and new testament should fall with it . and she hath done all that lies in her to make it necessary , that those who shall have the wisdom to reject her ridiculous doctrine of infallibility , should at the self-same time renounce christianity . if popery were chargeable with no other crime ( as it is with innumerable others , and many of them intolerable ) i say were it chargeable with no other crime , but the making our belief of the authority of the books of scripture to be founded on the infallibility of the romish faction , we ought to be as zealous for the preventing its reestablishment in this nation ( from whence it hath happily been twice expelled ) as we are desirous to preserve the christian religion . secondly , the romish churche's making her authority the sole foundation of our belief of the scriptures makes the testimony of the spirit to the truth of christianity , in our saviour when on ●arth , and in the apostles and others in the primitive ages , to be now perfectly insignificant . i think it makes them to be so as to the church representative , for she pretends to her infallibility ( and consequently to her infallible assurance of the truth of christianity ) as an immedi●te gift of the holy ghost , therefore what need hath she of the testimony of miracles ? but as to private christians i can by no means understand in what stead they stand them ; for if the churches authority be necessary to their believing the truth of the scriptures , and therefore to their believing that there were those miracles really wrought , which the writings of the apostles tell us of , then why may they not without any more ado make her authority the immediate ground of their assent to the truth of christianity ? it is said that the truth of the matters of fact are not knowable at this distance , ( such as whether there were such persons as our saviour and his apostles , whether they performed such miracles , and the apostles wrote such books , &c. ) but by the tradition of the church , because no such matters are to be known at any considerable distance , but by tradition . to this it is answered , that it is one thing to believe the matters of fact upon the churche's tradition , and another to believe them upon her authority founded upon her infallibility . now this latter we reject , but adhere to the former , as a ground of our belief of those things . but then by the tradition of the church we are far from meaning that of rome onely . we mean the catholick church , or the whole collective body of christians throughout the world , from the apostles times down to this present age ; of which the roman church is but a part ( and therefore does impudently in appropriating catholicism to her self ) and that a very vitiated part too , and that church representative an exceedingly small part. and we receive the tradition of the catholick church as a ground ( as i said ) of believing these matters , not as t●e ground , because we take in another tradition , viz. that of those who are out of the church , and enemies to christianity , the iews especially . in short , we believe those and the like matters of fact , upon the same ground that we believe all other wherein religion is not concerned ; but there are circumstances which give the tradition of christian matters of fact a mighty advantage above other traditions , as unquestionable assurance as these give men , when they are general and uninterrupted . but 't is well known to all who are not strangers to the popish writers , what lamentable work they make in proving the testimony of the church to be the foundation of our faith concerning the authority of the scriptures . this proof they fetch out of the scriptures themselves ; and their main text for this purpose , and for the infallibility of their church is those words of s. paul , tim. . . where he calls the church the pillar and ground of truth . but what a manifest circle is this ? we ask them , how it appears that the scriptures are the word of god ? they answer , it appears from the testimony of the church . we ask again , how it appears that the testimony of the church is true ? they reply , it appears from the scriptures . and so they prove the authority of the scriptures by the testimony of the church , and then wheel about again , and prove the authority of the church by the testimony of the scriptures . but again , we can either be certain of the truth of these words of s. paul , setting aside the authority of the church , or we cannot be certain . if we can be certain , why then not of the truth of the whole scripture as well as of this single text ? if we cannot be certain of the truth of this text without the consideration of the churche's authority , what folly or rather knavery is it to make this text an argument to prove the thing in controversie by , when the truth of this text is questionable upon the same grounds that the truth of the scriptures in general is ? again , when they say that the testimony of the church is the ground of this our faith , they tell us , that by the church they mean the church of rome , and that she onely is the true church . we reply , that there are a many societies of christians in the world , that hold no communion with the church of rome , and each of these calls it self a true church , and therefore how shall we know that they are none of them so , but that the church of rome alone is ? they tell us , that this church alone hath the notes and characters of the true church . we ask again , how it doth appear that those notes and characters they give are true and genuine , and , if they are , that their church onely hath them ? here they are forced to fly again to the scriptures , and produce us some which they would have us believe are very pertinent to the purpose ; though none but those who see by their light are able to discern any such matter . but whether they be to the purpose or no , is no part now of our enquiry , but this is that which we shew from hence , how still they are intangled in their own net , and run round in a circle . yet once again , these people would perswade us that there is no knowing the scriptures to be of divine authority , but by the testimony of their church , whenas 't is impossible to know that there is any such thing in being as a church , but by the scriptures . and thus you see what prime christians these romanists are , what worthy catholicks . if there were no better champions than these for the authority of the scriptures , or the truth of christianity , atheists and infidels long since would have filled all places : as it is well known how they abound in the popish countries , and most of all in italy , and of all italy most in rome . and but for old mother ignorance , whom they have a marvellous fondness for , as well they may , their holy mother the church would by this time have had but a very small number of children or friends . but i would this had been the worst on 't , as alas it is not : for multitudes among them being well aware that they are merely imposed on ; and being acquainted with no better than an implicit faith , and thinking that no more is to be said for christianity than they learn from them , shake off both their popish and christian faith together . but we must not let that forementioned text wholly pass on which is laid such mighty stress for the proving of the infallibility of the roman church ; which gives her such a plausible pretence for the enslaving of mens minds and understandings . the whole verse runs thus , with the verse foregoing : th●●e things write i unto thee , hoping to come unto thee shortly . but if i tarry long , that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thy self in the house of god , which is the church of the living god , the pillar and ground of truth . according to episcopius his reading of these latter words , it is not the church that is here called the pillar and ground of truth ; but god manifested in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. in the next verse . for he makes that . verse to conclude with living god , ( verses and pointings being arbitrary ) and the pillar and ground of truth to begin the next verse thus , the pillar and ground of truth , and without controversie the great mystery of godliness , is god manifested in the flesh , &c. but there is no need of using any artifice to make these words unserviceable to the design of proving the infallibility of the church of rome ; for all that can be gathered from them is no more than this ; that the church is the support of that truth which is necessary to salvation , viz. the doctrine of the gospel . that which preserveth it in the world is the churches constant profession of it , and standing up for it . that is , this is the external and visible means whereby this truth is kept from perishing and being lost . or according to grotius , the church doth uphold and lift up the truth , it causeth it not to slip out of mens minds , and also to be beheld far and near . for the testimony of many good men , who all say that they received these doctrines and precepts from the apostles , must needs have great force and efficacy upon those who are not obstinate and contumacious . so that , first , this great man seems to understand by the church in this place onely that which was most ancient . but , secondly , there is no reason at all to understand by the church here onely the church representative , but the whole body of christians must necessarily be meant ; it being called the house of god , but the apostles , bishops and pastors are called the builders of the house , and governours never the house it self . and besides , the church which is here called the pillar and ground of truth is that over part of which timothy presided . that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thy self in the house of god , &c. that is , as a bishop and pastor in it . thirdly , if it should be understood of the church representative , 't is however intolerable impudence to make it onely the roman . but , fourthly , this text makes nothing to the purpose of infallibility in the church of rome's sence , understand by the church of the living god which church you please ; especially if you do not limit it to the first age : as is plain from what hath been said , and it needs no more words to make it plainer . now how can we have greater assurance that the church of rome is an arrant impostor than this one thing gives us , viz. that she will not allow us the liberty of judging for our selves ? the great apostle s. paul allowed this liberty to the corinthians in those words : i speak as unto wise men , judge ●e what i say , cor. . . and dare they say , that he overshot himself in that saying , or passed a mere complement upon the corinthians ? 't will not be at all strange if they do , considering how many worse things several of them have said of this apostle . but , i say , this church will not permit us to see with our own eyes , but we must take the whole of our religion upon trust , that is , upon her bare word , pin our whole faith upon her sleeve , and receive the most fundamental articles upon her warrant and authority . nay , though she would seem to give us leave to use our reason in the choice of our church , yet neither doth she this really ; but what she gives with one hand takes away again with the other , in that she will not suffer us to judge of the sence of scripture , and consequently not of those texts whereby she pretends to prove her self the onely true church . for if we be acknowledged to be competent judges of the true meaning of some scriptures , why not of all that are as easily intelligible as those are ? those must be very charitable , who can put a fairer interpretation upon this her severity than this , that it is designed to make us swallow without chewing , receive without examining the doctrines which are of her own invention ; and obey blindfold those decrees of hers , which she is conscious to her self , have not onely no countenance from the holy scriptures , but are as apparently contradictory to them , as any one proposition can be to another ; and are framed for no other purpose , but the serving of a worldly and most corrupt interest , and the gratifying of those appetites which it is the business of christianity to subdue and mortifie , viz. unsatiable covetousness , luciferian pride and ambition , and diabolical revenge and malice . again , what greater tyranny can be exercised over a mans mind , than to impose upon his faith , and that upon pain of damnation , not onely the strangest absurdities and greatest fooleries , but the grossest , most manifest and palpable contradictions ? but the romish church requireth your belief of innumerable of these in that her one doctrine of transubstantiation . nay , in imposing this mad doctrine upon you , she also tieth you up from giving credit to your very senses , no fewer than four of five ; and so would deprive you not onely of the liberty of men , but of all animals . chap. xvii . where it is shewed , secondly , that popery is as great an enemy as can be to christian liberty . and first , to that liberty which our saviour hath purchased for the world in general . as . that it tendeth as much as is possible to the corrupting of mens souls by subjecting them to vile affections . this shewed in the general , viz. in that it is apt to beget false notions of god ; and more particularly , in that it brings men under the power of the lusts of malice , revenge , cruelty ; pride and ambition ; covetousness ; uncleanness ; intemperance ; and the greatest injustice and unrighteousness . . that it no less tendeth to disqui●● m●ns m●nds with certain troublesome passions . secondly , as popery deprives men of that natural liberty which doth necessarily belong to them as men , so it is as grea● an enemy as can be to christian liberty . both to that liberty which our saviour hath purchased for the world in general , and to that which he purchased for the iews in particular . first , it is as opposite and injurious as can be to that liberty which our saviour hath purchased for the world in general . this liberty we have abundantly proved doth consist in freedom from the dominion of corrupt affections , and an entire compliance with the laws of righteousness . upon which follow freedom from the power of troublesom and disquieting passions , and sweet satisfaction and self-enjoyment . now it will fully appear , that the popish religion is as opposite as can be to the liberty which consisteth in these things , by that time we have dispatched these following particulars ; whereon should i give my self leave to be as large as i might , i should write a large volume instead of a chapter . first , popery in its own nature tendeth , as much as is possible , to the corrupting and debauching our souls by bringing them into subjection to vile affections . secondly , it no less tendeth to disquiet our minds with troublesom and tormenting passions . thirdly , it makes the admirable method , which we have shewed our lord hath taken for our deliverance from both , and the making of us holy and happy , perfectly ineffectual . first , it in its own nature tendeth as much as is possible , to the corrupting and debauching of our souls , by bringing them into subjection to vile affections . this shall be shewed in the general , and more particularly . . in the general , it doth this as it is apt to beget false notions , and very unworthy conceptions of the divine nature : whereas a true idea of god is necessary to the reforming of our lives , and rectifying of our natures , which cannot be done , without a due awe and reverence for him , nor without conforming our selves to his image and likeness . among the several instances of popish idolatry ( from the guilt of which high and provoking impiety the heathens may as easily purge themselves , as the church of rome ) their picturing of god the father and the holy trinity ( allowed by the council of trent ) and worshipping their pictures is a very great one . but who seeth not how this tends to beget in mens minds a most low and undervaluing , gross and impure conception of the deity ? can he easily conceive of god as a most pure spirit , that useth to feed his eyes , and foul his fancy with bodily representations of him ? that useth to worship the trinity under the figure of an old man , with a long grey beard , with a crucifix between his knees and a dove in his breast ? or under the ugly figure of a man-cerberus , or a man with three heads upon his shoulders ? but 't is well known that these are the abominable forms by which the papists represent the glorious trinity ; of which the former is much the more common . i do not see how any man who venerates the divine majesty as he ought , and hath according to his capacity a worthy idea of the unspeakable purity of his nature and incomprehensible perfections , can endure the sight of such pictures : but whosoever can fall in love with them , whatsoever becoming sense of god he had before , must needs soon lose it . that other instance also of popish idolatry , viz. the addressing themselves to the saints , whether by images or otherwise with all the reverence and solemnity of devotion which is used to the great god , must necessarily have much the same influence upon their minds . and their multitude of little trifling things , and many of them most ridiculous fopperies , in which they place so much religion , and seek to obtain pardon by them even for great immoralities , speaks them to have no true sense of his wisdom or holiness , to have a base and sordid notion of him , and doth more and more confirm them therein . nor can they have any true sense of the infinite equity and goodness of the divine nature , who are able to think that there is no salvation out of the church of rome ; and that god will damn to eternal torments all persons that are not of her communion , that is , the much greater part of christendom , let them be never so good and pious people otherwise : but no man can be truly a papist who believes more charitably . and 't is no wonder that they should be bloudy wretches who are able to conceive such a thing of god ; when according to their notion of him the more arbitrary , tyrannical and cruel they are , the more are they like that being , which to resemble is their glory and happiness . . this brings me to shew more particularly that popery doth naturally tend to bring mens souls into slavish subjection to the vile affections of malice , revenge and cruelty ; pride and ambition ; covetousness ; uncleanness ; intemperance ; and the greatest injustice and unrighteousness . as for malice and cruelty ( as now we intimated ) they are the natural and genuine off-spring of that most horrible uncharitableness that is proper to popery . when men have once conceived such an opinion of any of their fellow-creatures , as that they are hated of god , and damned reprobates , they think themselves obliged to hate them too , and hatred and cruelty are never separated . we have already given instances of popish cruelty in butchering protestants , and shewed what a vast sea of bloud hath been shed by the papists ; which hath been at the command of their holy father , and the instigation of his cursed instruments the iesuits . and i now add , that they have not satisfied themselves with the mere shedding of bloud , but have devised the most exquisitely tormenting methods of doing it ; such as can hardly be recited without great horror and consternation of mind . to pass over the inexpressible tortures of the holy inquisition , what say you to long protracting the torments of those whose bodies have been committed to the merciless flames , by letting them down by degrees with pullies , that the lower parts might be consumed before the fire could reach the vitals ? what say you to roasting alive ; to flaying off mens skins alive ; to boiling of the young children of hereticks alive , and casting them alive to be devoured by swine ? what say you to ripping up the bellies of women great with child , their hands and feet being first nailed down ; to hanging men at their own doors by their privy members ; to burying men alive , and young children , making holes in the ground out of which they have put their hands , and made sad moan for their mothers ? what heart is so hard as not to bleed at the mere reading or hearing such things as these ? but these and innumerable such like , nay far more horrible things we might shew are instances of popish cruelty ; and those in●licted upon the account of no greater offences , than refusing to be idolaters , and not daring to be partakers of rome's sins lest they receive of her plagues . but how should those think that these devilish barbarities do not well become them , who presume the poor wretches they so torture to be accursed of god , devoted to destruction , and to far more grievous and intolerable torments ; and that the hatred god bears to them doth cause him to accept it as an excellent piece of service at their hands to be their destroyers and tormenters , that is , the executioners of his wrath ? moreover , the absolute obedience they owe to christ's vicar imposeth a necessity upon them not to boggle at the greatest cruelties , whensoever his holiness shall please to imploy them in such services : which his pride and malice will never permit him to fail to do , whensoever he thinks it consistent with his interest . and that a power to employ his vassals in such work as this , was conferred by christ upon s. peter and his successors , pope pius the fifth tells you , in the beginning of his bull against queen elizabeth . saith he , regnans in excelsis , &c. he that reigneth on high , to whom is given all power in h●●●en and in earth , hath committed the one holy , catholick and apostolick church , to one alone on earth , viz. peter prince of the apostles , and to his successor the bishop of rome , to be governed with a plenitude of power . this one hath he constituted prince over all nations and kingdoms , ( but what to do ? the next words tell us ) qui evellat , destruat , dissipet , disperdat , plantet & aedificet . that he may pluck up , destroy , break in pieces , waste , ( blessed work ! ) plant and build ( i. e. ) upon those ruines . and pope innocent the third applieth to the popes in a literal sence those words in the prophecy of ieremy : see , i have set thee over the nations , and over the kingdoms , to root out , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to throw down , to build and to plant . and it would be a most tedious piece of work to shew , what use the popes have made of this their pretended power ; and how they have menaced with excommunication those good-natured or prudent princes , whom they have not found forward to obey their commands in destroying hereticks . so necessary is it that a papist , if he will be true to his principles , should be either actually cruel , or in a ready preparation to be so . and where is the lust of pride and ambition so gratified to the height as in the church of rome ? as for the head of this church , can there be a prouder or so proud a creature upon gods earth ? who claims as universal and unbounded an empire over mankind , as the father hath invested his son iesus withal . who pretendeth his authority to exceed as much the royal power as the sun doth the moon . which are the words of the now mentioned pope innocent in the place cited . who assumes to himself as great a power over kings and emperors as over the meanest of peasants , and authority to dispose of their crowns and kingdoms at his own pleasure : and , whensoever he hath been strong enough , hath made them feel it . who claims as great a power over mens very consciences , their minds and understandings ( as we have seen ) in matters of religion , as god himself can . nay , usurpeth such a power as god himself abhors to have , as shall be shewn anon . so that if the man of sin , who sitteth in the temple of god , and exalteth himself above all that is called god , be not to be found in rome , no part of the world ever was or will be able to shew him . and how is it possible that such prodigious pride in the head should not affect and influence the members , both clergy and laity ; and that there should be none or little contagion in such an example ? surely the example of the profoundly humble iesus cannot have a more powerful influence upon his disciples , than that of his diabolically proud and haughty pretended vicars must needs have upon their proselytes ; especially considering the great propensity of humane nature to this sin of pride . but as for the popish clergie , they have infinite temptations to the gratifying to the height this lust , and as great opportunities for it . to pass by the cardinals and bishops , the former of which have the stile and go in the equipage of princes , and are co-partners with their high and mighty lord in his forementioned vast rule and government : and the latter not inferior to the greatest of the nobility , and have been censured for going too much out of their way to meet princes ; i say to pass by these , their common priests , monks and friers have the greatest incentives to pride , haughtiness and contempt of others , that the most ambitious of them all can well wish to have . as for the priests , i need not say how much their pretended power of transubstantiating the elements in the eucharist , which is no less than making a god almighty with pronouncing five words , must needs conciliate veneration from the people to them . and also what a mighty awe and reverence their taking of auricular confession from people of all ranks lying prostrate before them must necessarily beget in their minds towards them . and to other instigations to pride , too many to be now instanced in , may be added their priviledge of taking the sacrament in both kinds , whereas the greatest men of the laity may not presume to touch the cup. and then for the monks and friers ▪ what a gratification of pharisaical pride is the opinion that the silly vulgar have of their extraordinary sanctity , by means of the many ceremonies , of which some are peculiar to one , and some to another order , which are devised for no other purpose , but to make up a mock-shew of wonderful humility , contempt of the world , and mortification ? and to the lust of pride we next add that of covetousness , this is no less gratified by the popish religion than the other : and no wonder , for covetousness is a pander and pimp to pride . indeed , the whole systeme of popery is mainly contrived for the heaping up of wealth . this is manifestly designed in their doctrine of purgatory ; of the merit of good works ; the popes indulgences , and his prodigious grants of pardons ; the prohibition of marriage to priests ; their many spiritual fraternities , &c. but i must not take liberty to enlarge here ; for innumerable are the ways and methods of the papacy , and that are interwoven with the popish religion , for scraping together the wealth of the world : so notoriously guilty is that church of the crime which s. paul charged the seducers with , tit. i. ii. viz. teaching things that they ought not , for filthy lucres sake . she hath infinitely out-done all societies and bodies of men that ever were in the world in the politick trade of grasping and accumulating riches ; and that ( which makes it far the more abominable ) varnisht over with a form and mighty shew of godliness ; though in the mean time she sticks at no means , though never so unrighteous and abominably wicked , to accomplish her end. the sect of the pharisees , her famous predecessors , who made long prayers to devour widows houses , were in comparison of her very silly novices at this artifice , and sorry bunglers . which should i make out by proceeding to enumerate the rest of the particulars ( as hath been now intimated ) i should hardly know where to make an end. then , for the lust of vncleanness , what greater encouragement can a beastly creature have to give it its full swinge and liberty , than holy church gives him ? as also what dangerous and next to unavoidable snares doth she lay in the way of those mens chastity , who would be glad to live honestly ? as to the encouragement she gives to the satisfaction of this lust , what can be greater than to make simple fornication a venial sin ? that is , in the popish sence of that phrase , a mere peccadillo ; all of which kind put together , bellarmin will tell you , cannot equal one mortal sin , nor destroy charity : nor deprive us of gods favour , etiamsi nullum pactum esset de remissione , although there were no covenant of grace . and whereas it will be replied , that though such sins expose not to the torments of hell , yet they do to those of purgatory , which are sufficient to scare a man from them , and particularly from this of fornication : i add this as another great encouragement to the commission of it , viz. the exceeding light penances that are ordinarily imposed for it , such as going a little way bare●●●● ; a little piece of money ; so often repeating so many prayers , &c. but can there be greater encouragement given , than his holiness his not bare connivence at , but toleration of publick stews or bawdy-houses even at his own door , and sharing with them in their wicked gains ? nay , chemnitius tells us ( for which he quotes the authority of sleidan ) that the popes legat himself had lately in a publick writing , both defended in his own behalf , and commended to others that horrid wickedness for which sodom with the neighbouring cities was destroyed by fire . in short , there is a thousand times greater discouragement given in and by the church of rome to holy wedlock ( the special means appointed by god for the preservation of chastity ) than to vncleanness of what kind soever , and even the most vnnatural , as might largely be shewed . the holy fathers of the council of trent have the impudence to oppose chastity to matrimony , in their ninth canon of the eighth session . which leads me to shew likewise what snares are laid by that church , and what next to invincible temptations to the sin of uncleanness she exposeth innumerable people to . as imposing vows of perpetual single life upon all priests , monks , friers and nuns , most of which live idly and fare plentifully ; and giving the priests the most inviting opportunities for the commission of fornication and adultery that can be : there being not a female of ripe years but is obliged once a year at least to be alone with a priest for auricular confession . and whensoever they please to apply themselves to them upon that pretence , 't is a sin for parents , husbands , &c. to prohibit them : by which means there is no sort of men scarcely in all christendom so infamous for filthiness as the popish priests : and what a snare their example must necessarily be to the laity , i need not say . i might instance in other high provocations to lust and wantonness which the clergy and laity of that church must thank her for . as her excessive number of holy days , whereon the laity at least must be idle whether they will or no. and which , considering how they are observed as well within the church as out of it , do generally not at all serve the purposes of religion ; and , considering the liberty that is allowed , are only opportunities for making provision for the flesh to fulfil it in the lusts thereof . and as for the carnivals , the business of them is to commit all manner of wickedness with greediness , and with the greatest secrecy and security . and therefore i need not distinctly shew what liberty that church gives to the sin of intemperance , the highest provocative to lasciviousness . lastly , for that of the grossest injustice and vnrighteousness , no men in the world have such encouragement to make no bones of it as have the children of the church of rome : diverse of whose practices and principles are exactly fitted for so execrable a design , as the extirpating out of mens minds all sense of justice or common honesty . as particularly , the pope's claiming a power to dispense with the most solemn oaths , and frequent exercise of that power in absolving subjects from their allegiance to heretical princes , and otherwise : that truly catholick principle , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ; which a council of constance put in practice upon poor iohn husse : the doctrine of equivocation and mental reservation , which takes away all security and confidence in one anothers words , and tends to the destruction of humane society . this doctrine is not proper to the iesuits , but ( as father parsons saith in his treatise tending to mitigation ) hath been received in the roman church for four hundred years . and if you take in the professed principles of that their most renowned order , which improve that doctrine so far , as in some cases , but especially in those wherein their religion is concerned , to make it lawful or at least venial , to back equivocations with sacred oaths , and horrible imprecations ; and that before a court of judicature ( at least if it consists of hereticks ) of the practising upon which we have had among our selves of late most amazing instances : if , i say , you take in these principles ( which are now collected out of their books into pamphlets , and exposed to the view of every body ) as also those very many other , which are to be seen in the iesuits morals , you will say that should we rake hell for doctrines to make men devils , there can none be found more effectual for the purpose than those wherewith we are furnished by the church of rome . and so much shall suffice to be spoken to the first particular , viz. that popery tendeth as much as is possible to the debauching our souls , by bringing them into subjection to vile affections ; in discoursing on which we have studied to be as brief as can be . secondly , popery no less tendeth to disquiet mens minds with certain troublesom and tormenting passions . we have shewed in the first section , that all corrupt affections ( and therefore the forementioned , to which all may be reduced ) are of a very tormenting nature : in saying therefore now that popery tends to disquiet men with certain troublesom passions , i design a distinct head of discourse , viz. that the better and wiser any man of that religion is , the more will his mind be disturbed by a many points thereof ; particularly with fear , shame , anxiety and solicitude : and first , for the passion of fear , what can so excite this , or make a man so much a slave to it , as the popish doctrine of purgatory ? whosoever doth really believe that there is a life after this , must needs be more or less solicitous about his state in that life ; and according to the degrees of that his faith , will his solicitude be greater or less . now the belief of that doctrine must necessarily be accompanied with great fear of death ; which , as the apostle saith , makes those who are under the power of it all their life-time subject to bondage . for , as the pains of purgatory are taught to be so dreadful and terrible as to equallize those of hell , except onely in the duration of them ( and how long each particular person may lie there before he be released , whether scores or hundreds of years , as also what degrees of torment shall be allotted to him , is the greatest uncertainty ) so no man can have any rational assurance , let him lead never so strictly holy a life , of escaping this place of torment ; no nor the least hope neither from such a life , if it be short of absolute perfection , as whose is not ? and as for the efficacy of penances and indulgences , it is impossible for any one who ever thinks seriously about the concerns of his soul , and understands any thing of religion , at least not to be full of diffidence what it may amount to . those are such monstrous cheats , the former for the most part of them , and the latter all of them , that such as are not much short of brutes for folly , or of devils for wickedness , can never be so blinded as to promise to themselves the least benefit or advantage from them , and much less that which is promised by the pope and the priests . again , what a slavish fear and dread of god , as a revengeful being , must needs possess the minds of those who have imbibed the church of rome's doctrine concerning whippings and scourgings , and other severe penances ? viz. that they are necessary not onely for mortification , but likewise for satisfaction , in the popish sence of that word . but what a spirit of bondage are they under then from dread of god's vengeance , in believing ( as they are bound ) that god will not remit the punishment of sin where the guilt of it is washed away with the bloud of christ , upon the performance of the conditions of the new covenant ( which is as nonsensical as false ) that he will not remit it , i say , to such , so far as to excuse them from intolerable temporary torments in the other world , except he hath other satisfaction given him in this life by themselves ; nor from torments of a vastly long duration , except it be given him by others after their decease ? their church is so well aware , with what horrible dread and fear this doctrine must necessarily affect poor credulous fools , that she hath invented it for that very reason ; because by this means she brings them into the most slavish subjection , makes her self mistress of their purses , and is enabled to have her fill of tyranny over their consciences , their souls and bodies . what tongue can express the devilishness of such practices ! next for the passion of shame ; the necessity of all people's of both sexes confessing to the priest , which is enjoyned by the council of trent to be done once a year at least , and that of all their actual sins , and not onely so , but also of all their purposes and desires to commit them , nay , and inclinations too ; what violence is hereby done to the modesty of all such as have not arrived to the height of impudence ? this is ( to use the words of the learned doctor more ) as if all the modest maids and grave matrons in the parish should strip themselves stark naked , and in that manner humble themselves before their priest once a year : which would look like a piece of unsupportable tyranny . and yet ( as he proceeds ) this extorted confession upon pain of damnation not to conceal any thing , is not the stripping of a man to his naked body , but the stripping him of his body , that they may see his naked heart , and so by the force of this superstition break into those secrets , which it is onely the due priviledge of god almighty to be acquainted with , &c. and lastly , what anxiety and solicitude must those papists minds needs be tormented with , who are at all concerned about their eternal state , by reason of these following doctrines , viz. that of the dependence of the efficacy of sacraments upon the priests intention : that of confession now mentioned , decreed in the trent canons , viz. that the penitent must not onely confess every mortal sin , which after the strictest search he can call to mind , but even his particular sinful thoughts , his secret desires , and every circumstance which changeth the nature of the sin : and that of their distinction of sins into mortal and venial ; to pass by many others . as for the first of these , that known doctrine of the dependence of the efficacy of sacraments upon the priests intention : such as baptism ; the lords supper ; absolution , which is a grand popish sacrament , &c. can it be other than a great disturbance and distraction to a considering person , whether there be any dash of melancholy in his temper or no , to think with himself thus : what if after all my care and all my expence , the priest should either from a principle of malice or non-advertency not direct his intention as he ought to do ? then , if i am not remedilesly damned , i am at least in eminent danger of damnation . but then as to the second relating to confession ; this ushers in this perplexing difficulty , viz. how shall i in enquiring after my particular sins , in deed , word and thought , assure my self that i have used my utmost diligence ? which if i have not done , my absolution will signifie nothing to me . and as to confessing the circumstances of sins , the questions and scruples which naturally arise from thence are too many to be recited . but i 'le transcribe some passages of the learned bishop taylor ' s , concerning auricular confession , which are greatly to our present purpose . saith he in his disswasive from popery , the first part , how this can be safely done , and who is sufficient for these things , and who can tell his circumstances without tempting his confessor , or betraying and defaming another person ( which is forbidden ) and in what cases it may be done , and in what cases omitted ; and whether the confession be valid upon infinite other considerations , and whether it be to be repeated in whole or in part , and how often , and how much ? these things are so uncertain , casual and contingent , and so many cases are multiplied upon every one of these ; and these so disputed by their greatest doctors , by thomas and scotus , and all the school-men , and by the casuists ; that , as beatus rhenanus complains , it was truly observed by the famous john geilerius , that according to their cases , enquiries and conclusions , it is impossible for any man to make a right confession . and thus he concludes that section : so that although the shame of private confession be very tolerable and easie , yet the cases and scruples which they have introduced , are neither easie nor tolerable . and though , as it is now used , there be but little in it to restrain sin , yet there is very much danger of encreasing it , and of receiving no benefit by it . but yet for all this , the trent gentlemen in the fore-cited session and chapter , call it an impious thing to say that this their auricular confession is carnificina conscientiarum , a racking and torturing of peoples consciences . but it would be a wonder if the greatest wickedness should be unaccompanied with the most shameless impudence . as for the third doctrine i named , viz. that of their distinction of sins into mortal and venial ( that is , in their own nature so ) the intanglements it brings men into are inextricable . for they cannot be satisfied from their casuists what sins are venial and what are not so , in very many instances . and much less can they distinguish between the greatest venial sins and the least mortal ones . now , considering this little that hath been said , as the apostle saith , cor. . . where the spirit of the lord is ( or the true spirit of christianity ) there is liberty , so may we say , where the spirit of popery is , there is slavery ; much worse than egyptian slavery . no papist who is disposed to be devout and religious can be better than a poor superstitious creature : nor can scarcely serve god after a better sort than a turkish slave doth his cruel patron ; or than the poor indians worship the devil . but that those of them who make conscience of their ways , and are religiously inclined are not beholden to their popery for being so , will be fully made to appear in the next chapter . chap. xviii . the third particular discoursed on , viz. that the admirable method our lord hath taken to instate us in our christian liberty , is made lamentably ineffectual by popery . this shewed as to each of those four particulars that method consists of . the second head briefly spoken to , viz. that popery is also the greatest enemy to that liberty christ purchased for the jews in particular . a pathetical exhortation to a higher valuing of the priviledges we enjoy in the church of england concludes the chapter . thirdly , the admirable course and method which our lord hath taken to instate us in our christian liberty is made lamentably ineffectual by popery , for , first , whereas we have shewed , that he hath fully informed us concerning all the parts and particulars of our liberty , what can the romish church do more than she doth to keep men in ignorance of them ? the holy scriptures ( as hath been said ) she hath locked up : and though ( as that excellent gentleman sir edwyn sandys saith ) as well to beat back the irksome out-cries of their adversaries , as to give some content and satisfaction to their own , that they might not think them so terribly afraid of the bible , they were content to let it be translated by some of their favourers into the vulgar , as also some number of copies to be saleable a-while at the beginning ; yet since , having hushed that former clamour , and made better provision for the establishment of their kingdom , they have called all vulgar bibles straitly in again , yea the very psalms of david , which their famous preacher , bishop panigarola translated , as doubting else the unavoidableness of those former inconveniences . and such base , blasphemous reflections upon the holy scriptures have been published , both from their pulpits and presses , as speak them exceedingly dangerous by reason of their extreme obscurity , even in points necessary to salvation ( though the apostle saith , if our gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost ) as well as not worth the reading , as being fitted to serve all turns , a dead letter , and at best an insufficient rule , and not signifying any thing unaccompanied with their paltry traditions ; though s. paul saith , the scriptures are able to make us wise to salvation . nor do their preachers make any great amends for this intolerable abuse ; for , as they are too generally most sottishly ignorant , and know little more of the scriptures than the poor people , so the most knowing of them for the most part stuff their sermons with legends and idle tales , make as little use of scripture as they can , and feed their flocks with sorry trash , nay , with rank poison mingled with the sincere milk of the word , and the saving doctrines of the gospel . secondly , whereas we have shewn , that our lord hath furnisht us with the most potent means for the gaining of our christian liberty , this church hath also taken a course to make these unsuccessful we will instance in some of them . as for that of believing himself to be the son of god , &c. we need add nothing to what hath been said to shew how little she befriends it , in that she makes her own authority the onely foundation of that belief . that of hearing his word , we have now seen how ineffectual she makes it . that of prayer she makes so as much as she can , both by her foresaid doctrine of the non-necessity of imploying the mind therein , and her suitable practice of enjoyning the reading of prayers in an unknown tongue : as also by defiling them with superstitious rites , and even gross idolatry : and by joyning many mediators with iesus christ. that of the observation of the lords day , for which we have uninterrupted tradition from the apostles times , she hath made as effectual to the business 't is designed for , as the rest of her holy-days . that of denying our sensitive appetites , she is a wonderful friend to , as appears by the foresaid doctrine concerning simple fornication , and the forementioned liberty she allows , and the indulgences her popes have granted . and lastly , those of the sacraments , how unserviceable hath she made them to their intended end , by her doctrines of opus operatum , and of making their efficacy dependent on the priests intention : and that of the lords supper , by robbing the people of half , and converting the whole by her prodigious doctrine of transubstantiation into the most shameful idolatry ; and by her , doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass into a daily crucifying our lord afresh , and putting him again to an open shame . thirdly , whereas we have shewed that our lord hath purchased for us a rich supply of grace , to enable us to use these and the like means with happy success , i need not say what an enemy popery is to this grace and the efficaciousness thereof , having now shewn what an enemy it is to these means . fourthly , whereas we have likewise presented several most powerful motives , which our lord hath given us to prevail with our wills to comply with this grace , popery is apt greatly to weaken and deaden every one of them to all its proselytes . as for instance , . that of the vnconceiveable love of god , expressed in sending his onely begotten son upon the errand of our deliverance , &c. wherein we said are implied two wonderfully exciting motives to comply heartily with the method christ hath taken to set us free from the dominion of sin , viz. first , gods extremest hatred of sin , in that he would not propose terms of reconciliation to sinners without the intervention of such a sacrifice as that of his dear son. secondly , his as wonderful love to sinners . now as to the former of these two motives , what influence can it have upon those who are made to believe that a company of little sleight penances will satisfie for great and enormous crimes ? can they think that god doth account sin so heinous and intolerable an evil , when they presume him so willing to be reconciled to great sinners upon the most easie terms and conditions ? the foresaid gentleman , who was conversant among them , tells us , that their penance doth ordinarily consist but in ave maries and pater nosters , with some easie alms to them that are able , and some little fasting to such as are willing . and that he himself hath known , when the penance for horrible blasphemy , and that frequent too , besides much other lewdness , hath been but the bare saying of their beads thrice over ; which in italy ( such good husbands are they ) hinders no business , but ( as he also observes ) they dispatch their beads as they walk the streets , or rid business at home , making it two lips and one fingers work . but were the penance imposed by the priests never so sharp , he shews that the fathers plenary pardon sweeps all away at a blow . and that of these they have granted ( especially the pope that lived in his time ) so huge a number , that he believed there were few churches of note in italy , which had not purchased or procured a perpetual plenary indulgence , by virtue whereof whosoever at certain days being confessed , and , having communicated , pours out his devotions at some altar in that church , or gives alms to the behoof thereof , had forthwith free remission of all sin and punishment . which , i say , is the most effectual course that can be devised to make people think , that the greatest sins are no greater evil in god's than they are in their own account . and then as to the latter motive , how is the love of god to sinners lessened by this doctrine of theirs , viz. that by the sufferings of christ true penitents are indeed delivered from hell , but not from the direful pains of purgatory , which ( as was said ) may be equal in all respects to those of hell , except in the duration of them ; which yet may endure too for many ages , but that they have invented means to shorten them . and their eaking out the satisfaction which christ hath made to the divine justice for sinners , with satisfactions of their own making , doth also not a little disparage his and his fathers love in what he hath suffered in their behalf . . as to the motive of christ's admirable example , we have shewed of what little efficacy this is made by the vile examples of his vicars and vicegerents , and their spiritual guides . whereunto i will add this passage of the said sir edwin's , that the iniquity of their chief see hath been so exorbitant , as to have raised amidst themselves this proverb or saying , that the worst christians of italy are the romans , of the romans the priests are wickedest , the lewdest priests are preferred to be cardinals , and the baddest man among the cardinals is preferred to be pope . . as for this motive , viz. the assurance christ hath given us , that he will not take such advantage of our frailties as to cast us off for them . it is even quite taken away by their doctrine of even venial sins being so severely punisht in purgatory . . for that of our saviour's mediation and intercession , what a little motive have they made it , by making so many co-mediators with iesus christ , as if his mediation were far from sufficient . and nothing hath been more observed than that for one pater noster , they say very many ave maries . and the virgin mother of god ( as they call her ) is caressed after that rate by them , that 't is scarcely uncharitable to suspect that they lay far more stress upon her's than upon her son's merits . lastly , to joyn together the motives of the glorious reward promised to the subduing of corrupt affections , and the most dismal punishment those are threatned with who gratisie them , it appears abundantly from what hath been already said , that they have made these exceedingly weak and insignificant . but that one doctrine is enough to do it alone , which we find backt with the authority of the council of trent , viz. that imperfect contrition , or attrition , although by it self it cannot bring a sinner to iustification , without the sacrament of penance ; nevertheless it disposeth him for the obtaining of the grace of god in that sacrament . now they tell you immediately before what they mean by attrition , viz. a sorrow for sin , arising either from the consideration of its turpitude , or from the fear of hell , ( not from both together , but from either ) excluding a will to sin for the future , and accompanied with the hope of pardon . now who can find it difficult to be affected with sorrow for his sins , for fear of hell , and to be willing to leave off to sin , when he sees death approaching , and he can sin no longer ? and then a priest being at hand to apply the sacrament of penance , according to this sweet doctrine , the most profligate sinners work is done for the other world. and therefore what need any man put himself to the trouble of subduing his lusts , and a holy life , seeing all that 's necessary to eternal salvation may be dispatcht on the death-bed ? if it be said , that no man can be certain that he shall have any time of sickness before death , or that he shall not be cut off in a moment , as many are , or that he shall be compos mentis , and have the use of reason in his sickness , and therefore 't is a mad thing to put off the great work of saving a man's soul to the very last : i say , if this be said , the answer is easie , that seeing there 's scarcely one in some hundreds but hath at some time or other the use of his intellectuals upon his death-bed , and so very few comparatively die without some warning , there is no doubt of it , but a hardned sinner will put those things to the venture , when once he hath drunk down the comfortable cordial which is prepared for him by his spiritual physicians , and that by a general council of them too , which never fails of being infallible . and thus we have seen how wofully mischievous popery is in making as ineffectual as can be the most admirable method our lord hath pitcht upon for the setting us free from the power of sin. which argument i have been the more brief upon , because i have already discoursed upon it in the design of christianity . secondly , it remains to be shewn what an enemy popery is to that liberty which our saviour purchased for the iews particularly . the church of rome hath laid on a far more intolerable burden of ceremonies and ritual observances than that which our saviour took off their shoulders . which , as they fall not short of the iewish ones in number , ( nay i may say do much exceed them ) so they are ( to say nothing how grosly superstitious many of them are , and some as idolatrous ) for the most part so odd and uncouth , so childish and ridiculous , so vain and garish , as that it is not conceivable how truly devout and serious people should stoop so low as to give their minds to them , and not lose their seriousness and devoutness . the ill influence which the mosaical ordinances had by accident , and through their own default upon the minds of the iews , these must naturally have , and a far worse , upon the minds of papists . it would be an endless piece of work to discourse of them particularly , and i shall onely refer the reader to the seventeenth , eighteenth , and nineteenth chapters of the several times quoted mystery of iniquity . nor will i add any thing farther of mine own upon this unpleasant subject , but set down what sir edwyn sandys hath acquainted us with from his own observation . saith he , to omit the endless multitude of superstitions and ceremonies of the church of rome , enough to take up a great part of a mans life to gaze on and to peruse ; being neither vniform in all places , as some would pretend , but different in divers countries : an huge sort of them are so childish also and unsavoury , that , as they argue great silliness and rawness in their inventors , so can they naturally bring no other than disgrace and contempt to those exercises of religion wherein they are stirring . nor can i forbear to add the following large citation from the same author , in the conclusion of this discourse , of the infinite injury that is done by popery to christian liberty : viz. the particular ways they hold to ravish all affections and to fit each humour , are well nigh infinite : there being not any thing either sacred or prophane , no virtue nor vice almost , nothing of how contrary condition soever , which they make not in some sort to serve that turn ; that each fancy may be satisfied , and each appetite find what to feed on . whatsoever either wealth can sway with the lovers , or voluntary poverty with the despisers of the world ; what honour with the ambitious , what obedience with the humble ; what great employment with stirring and metall'd spirits ; what perpetual quiet with heavy and restive bodies ; what content the pleasant nature can take in pastimes and iollity ; what contrariwise the austere mind in discipline and rigour ; what love either chastity can raise in the pure , or voluptuousness in the dissolute , &c. what with the hopeful prerogative of reward can work ; what errors , doubts and dangers with the fearful , &c. what pardons with the faulty , or supplies with the defective ; what miracles with the credulous ; what visions with the fantastical ; what gorgiousness of shews with the vulgar and simple ; what multitude of ceremonies with the superstitious and ignorant ; what prayer with the devout ; what with the charitable works of piety ; what rules of higher perfection with elevated affections ; what dispensing with breach of all rules with men of lawless conditions : in summ , what thing soever can prevail with any man , either for himself to pursue , or at leastwise to love , reverence or honour in another , the same is found with them , not as in other places of the world by casualty blended without order , and of necessity ; but sorted in great part into several professions , &c. what pomp , what riot to that of their cardinals ? what severity of life comparable to their hermits and capuchins ? who wealthier than their prelates ? who poorer by vow and profession than their mendicants ? on the one side of the street a cloister of virgins , on the other a stye of courtizans with publick toleration . this day all in masks with all looseness and foolery , to morrow all in processions , whipping themselves till the bloud follows . on one door an excommunication throwing to hell all transgressors , on another a iubilee or full discharge from all transgressions , &c. what pride equal to the pope's , making kings to kiss his pantafle ? what humility greater than his , shriving himself daily on his knees to an ordinary priest ? &c. where greater rigour in the world in acting the observation of the church laws ? where less care or conscience of the commandments of god ? to taste flesh on a friday , where suspicion might fasten , were a matter for the inquisition ; whereas on the other side the sunday is one of their greatest market-days . to conclude , never state , never government in the world so strangely compacted of infinite contrarieties , all tending to entertain the several humours of all men , and to work what kind of effects soever they shall desire , &c. so that where is mad licentiousness more countenanced in the whole world than it is by this church ? and where are poor mortals made such miserable slaves as she makes them ? and consequently , how can there be a greater enemy than the romish church is , to that which we have proved to be the true , and most excellent liberty ? and now is it possible , that after the reading of the foregoing account of the unsupportably tyranny , the intolerably corrupt principles and most abominable practices of the church of rome , we should not be very greatly affected with the priviledges we enjoy in the church of england ? and with the infinite goodness of god to us in giving us our birth and education in a church which affords us all the advantages of which that church , like a cruel step-mother , robs her children ? we live in a church which lays before us the scripture arguments for our confirmati●n in the christian faith ; which obligeth us to receive the faith of christ upon the self-same grounds and motives that are proposed by our saviour and his apostles , and upon no other . we live in a church which not onely gives us free leave , but likewise enjoyns us to read the holy scriptures , and deprives us of no part of them . we live in a church which requires us to receive nothing as an article of faith upon her bare authority ; that assumes nothing of in●allibility to her self , but freely gives us the liberty of trying all things : that imposeth nothing upon our belief or practice as necessary to salvation , but what is in the plainest and most express terms to be found in the bible : that makes the scriptures a complete rule of faith , and adds not one syllable of her own to supply their defect : that takes no liberty in her constitutions , but such as she believes to be agreeable to the general apostolical rules of doing all things decently and in order , and to edification ; and imposeth these not as of divine institution , or as necessary in their own nature , but onely as expedient for the more solemn , grave and decorous management of the publick worship of god : this being left by christ and his apostles to the prudence of the governours of each particular church . we live in a church which abominates the worship of god by images , allows no prayers to saints or angels , but onely to the true god by the alone mediation of our lord iesus christ. we live in a church which renounceth all merit of good works , and teacheth us to expect salvation onely for the sake of iesus christ , and through his righteousness ; but gives not the least countenance to licentious practices , or remissness in good works ; and teacheth the absolute necessity of purging our selves by the assistance of the divine grace from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit , in order to our being made capable of god's complacential love here , and glory hereafter . lastly , ( whereas i might be exceedingly large upon this subject ) we live in a church wherein we want no necessary help for the building us up in our most holy faith , or our having the design of our saviour's religion happily effected in us ; namely , the reformation of our lives , and our being renewed after the image of god , which consisteth in righteousness and true holiness . o that at length we could become more eflectually sensible of the blessed priviledges the divine goodness vouchsafeth to us of the church of england , lest we be made to prize them by the loss of them : lest our general monstrous ingratitude , and lamentable unprofitableness under them ; and the wantonness , peevishness , and causless separation of multitudes from the communion of this church , provoke the divine majesty to put our necks once more under the iron yoke of those tyrants , which made such vassals of our fore-fathers . if that dismal day should again come ( as god grant it may not ) with what sorrow and grief of soul shall we reflect upon our neglecting and despising such happy opportunities as we now enjoy ? what would we not then gladly part with to regain them , when we are deprived of them ? and o that our several divided parties were capable of being perswaded to consider sedately and seriously before it be too late , what their gain will be by the fall of our chuch , when themselves and their religion lie buried together in her ruines . chap. xix . the fourth inference , that he onely is a true christian , that looks upon himself as obliged to be no less watchful over his heart and the frame and temper of his mind , than over his life and conversation . i shall now return to more immediately practical discourse , for what remains of this treatise , which is far more pleasing to my self than that i have been employed in for several of the past chapters ; as necessary and seasonable as that is also . fourthly , from our notion of christian liberty this is another manifest inference , viz. that a true christian is one that looks upon himself as obliged to be no less watchful over his heart , than over his life and conversation ; to take as great care to cleanse the inside of the cup and platter ( to use our saviour's expression ) as the outside ; to be as vigilant over his affections , as over his outward behaviour ; to be as solicitous about purging himself from all immoderate love of the things of this world , as about procuring them by warrantable and lawful means . the true christian makes as much conscience of lusting after a woman and cherishing impure thoughts , as he doth of lascivious and wanton practices ; of harbouring revenge in his breast , and bearing ill will to any , as of repaying injury with injury . he needs not to be made sensible that 't is no less his duty to forgive and love his enemies , than to forbear reviling them or doing evil to them ; that 't is as indispensably necessary to be low in his own eyes , and to think meanly of himself , as to beware of a haughty and supercilious carriage towards others ; that he cannot more safely covet than he can steal his neighbours goods ; that he is as much bound to bring his will into subjection to the will of god , under the severest providences , as to forbear murmuring , repining and charging of god foolishly . he who is a christian in deed as well as in name placeth religion in governing his own spirit , no less than in any external performances or forbearances of what nature soever ; in putting away from himself all wrath , bitterness and sourness , no less than in abstaining from uncivil deportment towards his brethren . this man doth not think it more necessary to do good works than to do them from a good principle : and he is as much concerned about loving of god , as about doing what he hath commanded him , and forbearing what he hath forbidden him . he no less endeavours to hate sin , than not to commit it ; and to be in love with his duty , than to do his duty . nay , the sincere christian looks upon that as his greatest and most important work and business which is least in sight , which is to be done within himself ; as well knowing that if the tree be good , its fruit will be so also : that ( as our saviour saith ) a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit , nor a good tree evil fruit ; and that all must needs be well without him , if all be well within him : and that no outward temptations can be forceably enough to draw him to sin , so long as there is entertained within him no treacherous lust , that is ready to take part with them . that he to whom this character doth not belong is no genuine christian , is apparent , in that such a person is no freeman . and as a great number of texts do plainly speak the former proposition to be true , so is it to be concluded from what hath been discoursed of the nature of christian liberty ; from our having demonstrated that it consisteth in deliverance from all inslaving lusts , and in having all obstacles taken out of the way to our complete complying with the laws of righteousness and goodness . chap. xx. the last inference . viz. that the most proper and genuine christian obedience is that which hath most of liberty in it ; namely , that which proceeds from the principle of love to god and goodness . fifthly and lastly , i infer from our discourse of christian liberty what is the most proper and genuine christian obedience ; surely that which hath most of liberty in it ; that obedience which is most free and least forced : that which springs from an inward living principle , and is not merely occasioned by the consideration of external motives and arguments . and then doth a man act from an inward principle of life , when he acts from the love of god and goodness . there is scarcely any distinction betwixt these two , for to love god , that is , as god , is to be inamoured primarily with his most beautiful and amiable perfections of righteousness , purity , beneficence and mercy ; all which may properly be expressed by that one excellent word goodness . i say to love god as god is to be in love with these perfections primarily , and to love his person upon the account of them , if it be lawful to distinguish them , and abstract his person from his perfections . but those do most truly conceive of that incomprehensible being , who make no such abstraction , but describe him by calling him infinite righteousness and purity , bounty and mercy , wisdom and power , &c. rather than a being in whom are all these perfections : for they are not so properly said to be in god , as to be god himself . thus limited that maxim of the schools is indisputably true , viz. quicquid est in deo est ipse deus : whatsoever is in god is god himself . so that i say , to love god and to love goodness as such do amount to the same thing : to love god not because good in himself , but because good and kind to me , is more self-love than a love of god. a wicked man may thus love god , for as the wise man observes , that every man is a friend to him that giveth gifts , so is he especially to him that bestoweth gifts upon himself ; the very brutes are so , and he is more a devil than a man that is not so . publicans and sinners , our saviour saith , do love those who love them , and the more a man loves himself the more will he be inclined to love his benefactors and best friends as such . now ( as i said ) that is the most free , and consequently the most christian obedience which ariseth from an inward lively sense of the beauty and amiableness of goodness , of the christian virtues and graces , which are all so many rays of and emanations from the divine goodness , and therefore those who are indued with them are said to be partakers of a divine nature : and when we act from this principle we act from a new nature , and i need not say that no actions are so free as natural actions . thus to do good is to do like god himself , the freest of all agents ; for he doth good not from external motives , but from the infinite complacency he takes in goodness it self . i am the lord who exercise loving kindness , iudgment and righteousness in the earth , for in these things do i d●light saith the lord , ier. . . which is as much as to say , therefore i am exercised in these things , because i delight in them : or , my delight in these things is the principle whereby i am acted in the exercise of them . thou art good ( saith the psalmist ) and dost good , psal. . . or , because thou art good thou dost good , and god's being good is his delighting in goodness . righteousness and goodness are too excellent things to be made mere means to a farther end. who is a god like unto thee , that pardoneth iniquity , and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage , he retaineth not his anger for ever ( and why he doth not , the next words tell us ) because he delighteth in mercy , mic. . . and our imitating of god and being like to him is the great design and business of our saviour's religion . but i would not be understood as if i affirmed that that obedience which springs from hope or fear , or is excited by the consideration of rewards and punishments is an obedience not becoming and unworthy of christians : if so , i should condemn our saviour and his apostles for proposing such motives . but i say , first , that the most genuinely christian obedience is that which proceeds from love , from the love of god and goodness ; not that christianity doth exclude all other motives , but this is the chief and principal , because it makes our obedience most free , and makes us most like to god in doing good. secondly , i say also that to do good from a principle of love to god and goodness , and to do it from the hope of heaven and the fear of hell are one and the same thing , if we have a true notion of heaven and hell : that is , if we conceive of the heavenly state as that which consists in a perfect likeness to god ( as perfect as our natures are capable of ) and a full and complete enjoyment of him ; and of the hellish state as that which is directly opposite to the heavenly , according to this notion of it . now i need not spend one minute in shewing , that to do good from the hope of such a happiness , and from the fear of such a misery , is to be acted by the foresaid principle of love in so doing . thirdly , i add , that to be acted by mere external motives , motives wholly extrinsical to god and goodness , by the ●●ar of hell onely considered as a place of torment , and the hope of heaven onely considered as a place of great pleasure and joy , without considering the nature of that torment and the nature of that joy , this is a low and mean obedience , as having nothing but self-love in it , and self-love of the lower kind too ; and this is a forced not a free obedience . it is a certain truth , that he who hath no sense of the inward pulchritude and loveliness of virtue , and of the deformity and ugliness of vice , and the eligibleness of the former before the latter considered in themselves , and therefore would be a wicked wretch if he were not held in by the mere hope of a reward and fear of punishment , though he be never so conformable outwardly to the laws of christ , this man is no christian. he is much nearer to the kingdom of god , than he on whom hope and fear have no influence to make him better , but he hath not attained to a due qualification and meetness for it . i appeal to any father , whether he would account such a one a good child who is mightily observant of him , if he were assured that his obedience proceeded from no more generous principles ; and that he would be a rogue and a villain but for fear of the lash , and that he hopes for his estate . as little reason hath our saviour to account such disciples of his good christians , as we have to account such sons of ours good children . and from what hath now been said we learn what to think of the principle of gratitude ; whether this makes that obedience which ariseth from thence the most genuinely christian obedience , as it is ordinarily said it doth . if our gratitude proceeds merely from the consideration of the divine bounty to our selves , taking no notice of that expressed to our fellow-creatures , it hath nothing but self-love in it , and therefore is more animal than christian gratitude . and consequently , i need not ask what we are to think of that gratitude which is founded onely or chiefly upon the peculiarity of god's love to our selves ; that wherein the sweetest and most indearing consideration is this , that the generality of mankind are excluded from it : truly this is a worse than mere animal gratitude , and speaks a mind exceedingly destitute of that divine ( and therefore christian ) temper , which exerts it self in universal good will. and i am certain that the more a christian any man is , the higher will the consideration of other's having a share with him in the blessings of god advance his gratitude . and that which doth most become us springs more from a lovely sense of the divine beneficence considered as largely extended , than from the consideration of its being terminated on our own persons or families , or some few people besides our selves . i do not say , that the peculiarity of a favour ought not to affect us , when it is not in our fancy onely but in reality : but , i say , there is nothing but what is natural , ( it is impossible we should not be affected with it when we consider it ) there is nothing proper to a christian in such a gratitude ; and i say also , that though this consideration , i have such a mercy conferred upon me , which not one in a thousand is blessed with besides my self , must needs the more affect me with joy and gratitude ; because it makes me sensible that it was more than a thousand to one i might have missed of it too , supposing it was no fruit of my extraordinary diligence , and i did no more than others for it who went without it : yet it would be a very uncharitable , and therefore wicked , thing in me to be so much the more thankful for that mercy , because it is denied to most others . there is a vast difference between being the more grateful for a blessing , because , since so small a number are partakers of it , i am one of those that are ; and being so , because so small a number are partakers of it . and the more will our gratitude have of the truly christian spirit , the less we abstract our selves from others in the consideration of those obligations god hath laid upon us together with others ; and by consequence that obedience will be most christian-like which flows from such a gratitude . the conclusion . now then , after all that hath been said upon this weighty argument , shall we continue as negligent and cold as ever in asserting our liberty ? that liberty which is infinitely most valuable , that liberty which sets free from the vilest and most intolerable slavery , the liberty of our souls , and the truly divine liberty ? shall that liberty which deserves not to be named on the same day with this , be so highly set by , and can we tamely give up this ? do men think freedom from bodily slavery to be worth the price of all they have , their lives and all , and are we able to imagine that freedom from spiritual slavery can be bought too dear ; or think much of using our most serious endeavours for the regaining of it ? had the laconick boy , when taken captive by a souldier of antigonus , so brave a spirit as to refuse to be employed by him , in any of that drudgery which was proper to slaves , and to prefer a violent death before a slavish life , when he despaired of redemption ? did those dardan women esteem slavery 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the most loathsom of all evils , and so extremely vile and shameful a thing , as to take their dear children and drown them in the river to prevent their being made slaves of ? and are we of so much a baser make than that poor lad , and these silly women , as sheepishly to subject our selves to the incomparably most vile and dishonourable slavery ? nay , are we so void of all sense as to be unconcerned at the unsupportable misery which first or last will be the unavoidable consequent thereof ? are we nati ad servitutem , is slavery so natural to us , as that we can endure to be domineered over by the most tyrannical and unreasonable masters , as we have shewed our lusts and the devil are ? are we so in love with the house of bondage as to be well satisfied to make it the place of our perpetual residence ? are we so like apes as to hug our clogs , and so like bedlams as to be fond of our shackles ? the king of heaven , we have heard , hath sent his onely begotten son upon this very errand of knocking off our fetters , of proclaiming liberty to us captives , and opening the prison doors unto them that are bound ; of delivering us from our thraldom and vassalage , and making us free indeed , free with the most excellent and noble freedom ; and recovering those out of the snare of the devil who are taken captive by him at his will ; and will we not be made free ? will we not exchange this worse than egyptian slavery for the glorious liberty of the sons of god ? as god said of old to ierusalem , wilt thou not be made clean , when shall it once be ? so let me say to every soul that lyeth under the dominion of corrupt affections , wilt thou not be set at liberty , when shall it once be ? did the grecians when set at liberty by flaminius ( as plutarch reports ) sound out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saviovr , saviovr , with such a courage , that the birds which flew over them fell astonisht to the ground ? and can we be so little affected with what our saviour hath done for us in order to our being rescued from that slavery which is so much worse than theirs , as not to accept deliverance at his hands ? can we be so unconcerned at what king iesvs hath done for our redemption , as to refuse to embrace his offers of it ? have we conceived so low an opinion of the service of god , and his blessed son , as to chuse to be drudges and vassals to most cruel pharaohs , rather than to be their free-men ? had we rather still toil in the brick-kilns of egypt than inherit and possess the good land ; the land of peace and rest , liberty and joy ? god forbid . o that therefore we would at length be perswaded , first to accept of , and then to stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ would make us free , and no more be intangled with the yoke of bondage . hath christ iesus taken such an admirable course in order to our being set free from the power of sin , and its dismal effects ? then let us no longer cry out , o wretched men that we are , who shall deliver us from the body of this death ? as if we knew of no deliverer ; but let us thank god through iesus christ our lord. it hath been shewed that christ is not so our deliverer as to leave us nothing to do , as to bid us stand still ( as moses did the israelites at the red-sea ) and see the salvation of god , and see what himself will do for us ; but that he doth expect we should do our part in order to our being set free. but he hath done as much as we can reasonably desire he should do for that end , and abundantly more than could ever have entered into our hearts to imagine he would have done ; and so much that it must be now wholly long of our selves , our own inexcusable negligence , if what he hath done prove at last unsuccessful . we are too weak to deliver our selves by our own strength , by our own natural power we are utterly unable to rescue our selves from under the dominion of our spiritual adversaries ; but christ hath purchased that grace which shall be sufficient for us , if we will make a believing application to him for it , so that we may , if it be not our own fault , be strong in the lord and in the power of his might ; and therefore our weakness can be no excuse . it is to be acknowledged also that we are naturally very listless and averse to the using of the means of our deliverance , but what would we desire our saviour to do more than he hath done to excite our wills and quicken our endeavours ? nor can we plead ignorance of the means to be used , for we have understood how fully our saviour and his apostles have instructed us in these . now hath christ been so wonderfully concerned for our deliverance , and can we our selves be unconcerned ? did he pay such a ransom and price for us , and not think much of coming down from heaven , of taking our nature , of parting with his precious bloud , and suffering inexpressible torments in order to this great end , and can we think it unworthy of our serious care ? what is this but to tread under foot the son of god , and that bloud whereby we are redeemed ? was ever any miserable slave heard of that might if he would be set at liberty , and yet refused ? or is it imaginable that such a one could listen to any temptation whatsoever to continue in slavery ? especially if he were promised by a person able to make good his word , that he should exchange his prison for a palace , and his house of bondage for a kingdom ? but we have seen that no less a motive than this is presented to us by one who cannot lie , and who is as able as faithful . we have the greatest security in the world given us of a crown of glory , and an everlasting kingdom ; which infinitely surpasseth all the crowns and kingdoms upon earth to perswade us to comply with that rare , most powerful and most wise method which our lord hath taken to make us free. what a wonderful thing is this , that our lord should hire us to accept of liberty , and that at such a rate as this ! that he should have such compassion and love for our souls , as , that so we may be perswaded to do that which is onely our own interest , and infinitely our greatest interest to do , that so we may be won upon to cease from the vilest , most filthy and most miserable drudgery , and to engage in his most free and blessed service , he should think that he cannot make us too large offers . that he should so strangely out-bid the devil and our lusts , and , that we may no longer be be●ooled by their pitiful promises of vanishing , empty and false pleasures , should proffer us such joys , such bliss , as to which those pleasures , were they truly so , and never so durable , cannot bear the least proportion ▪ and , that we might no longer suffer our selves to be insulted and tyrannized over by them , and to be , as it were , their footstool , he should assure us of his willingness , nay , of his great desire to advance us to his own throne . for , as hath been said , he hath promised to grant unto him that overcometh that he shall sit with him upon his throne , even as he also overcame , and is set down with his father upon his throne . he applieth himself to that principle which is most predominant in our natures , so that if the love of himself cannot , yet the love of our own selves may even compel us to come in to his service . but one would think we should find it no less impossible to be so disingenuous towards our dear lord , than to be so cruel to our selves as to slight such promises , or that his most gracious and endearing invitation , come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and i will give you rest. take my yoke upon you , and learn of me , for i am meek and lowly in heart , and ye shall find rest to your souls . for my yoke is easie , and my burden is light , matth. . , , . but then are we able to think of it with any patience , that christ should do and suffer in our behalf so much in vain ; that we should frustrate the design of his astonishing condescension in assuming our nature , and of all he did and suffered for us ? hath he paid so excessively dear for us , and can we be content that after all he should lose his purchase ? especially since he purchased us , not because he stood in the least need of our service , but that we might serve our selves in serving him , and be made thereby unconceivably and everlastingly happy . do we not look upon the iews as a very strange generation of pople , and as no less ill-natured than foolish , that they would not be prevailed with to accept of deliverance from the burdensom services of moses his law ; that they should be so fond of that servile dispensation they were under , as to refuse to be released from it ? whenas the abolishing thereof was evidenced in as full and convincing a manner as its divine authority before was : nay , when that of the gospel set up in the room of it was demonstrated in a far more glorious manner to be of god , by christ himself before his death , by his resurrection from the dead , and ascension into heaven , and by the spirit in the apostles and others afterward . and shall we refuse to be set at liberty by our saviour from the bondage of sin , which is infinitely more heavy and unsufferable , and the consequences of which are so sad and intolerable ? while we so do , let us never blame the iews , and much less accuse them of being so perverse , hard-hearted and stiff-neckt a people ; for then , wherein we judge them we condemn our selves , for we that judge them do not onely the same , but a far more unaccountable thing . and think we this that so judge them that have done such a thing , and do the same and so much worse , that we shall escape the judgment of god ? nay , are we able not to think that it shall be much more intolerable for us at the day of judgment than for them , if we persist in so doing . we are apt to believe that no people ever deserved so ill of our saviour as those pharisees who ascribed his casting out devils to the assistance of beelzebub the prince of the devils : but how much better do we think those deserve of him who will not obey him , after they have had far greater evidence of his being the son of god than they at that time were in a possibility of having ? and if our saviour did accuse those of despising both himself and his father that sent him , who would not be perswaded by his mighty works to believe in him while he was on earth , what a high affront then do those put upon both , who will not give up themselves to be ruled by him , and quit the service of satan for his service ( which is the same thing with not believing in him ) now he is in heaven , and in all his glory ? this he must needs take far more unkindly and hainously at our hands . and be we assured ( for nothing is more evident ) that , as he is a most unreasonable creature , who after such marvellous evidence of iesus his being the son of god , and now sate down on the right hand of the majesty on high , will not give credit to these doctrines ; so he is much more unreasonable who doth give credit to them , and yet behave himself as if he believed no such matter . o that therefore we would ( those of us who have hitherto neglected to do it ) before it be too late and without farther delay , consider these things , and shew our selves men ; and then we shall with great courage and resolution make use of those weapons which the captain of our salvation hath put into our hands , for the vanquishing the enemies of our souls ; which weapons are not carnal , but mighty through god. and if we persevere in so doing , then shall those who have held such a severe hand over us fly before us ; then shall those lords who so subjected us , and kept us under , be brought under by us , be our subjects . then shall our prison-doors fly open , we shall be no longer under restraint and confinement . we shall be our own men , and walk at liberty ; we shall run and not be weary , walk and not faint , until we appear before god in sion ; until we are delivered from all molestation from , as well as dominion of sin and satan ; being made by iesus christ , who hath loved us and washed us from our sins in his own bloud , kings and priests unto god and his father : to whom be glory and dominion for ever and ever . amen . the end . books sold by richard royston , at the sign of the angel in amen-corner . the principles and practices of certain divines of the church of england truly represented and defended , &c. in a free discourse between two intimate friends , viz. theophilus and philalethes . the design of christianity ; or , a plain demonstration and improvement of this ▪ proposition , that the enduing men with inward real righteousness was the ultimate end of our saviour's coming , &c. the second edition . both of them by the author of this treatise . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . refranet prius libidines , spernat voluptates , iracundiam teneat , co●recat avaritiam , cateras animi labes repellat [ imperator ] tum incipiat aliis imperare cùm ipse improbissi●is dominis , dedecori ac turpitudini parere desicrit , dum quidem his ob●di●t . imperator non modò , sed liber habendus omninò non erit . si servitus sit , sicut est , obedientia fracti animi & abjecti , & arbitri● carentis suo , quis neget omnes leves , omnes cupidos , omnes denique improbos esse servos ? in his st●ical paradoxes . cùm cupiditatum dominatus excessit , & alius est dominus exortus , ex conscientiâ peccatorum timor , quàm illa miscra , quam dura scrvitus ! in stoic . paradox ▪ pudor nec in pessimos nec in optimos cadit . nam qui sibi conscius est se libero suo arbitrio constanter uti ad ca quae optima sunt , novit se non debere contemni , ac proinde , omni contemptu superior , ipsumme● contemnit contemptum ; quae magna pars est generositatis , in improbis vero summum improbitatis fastigium . enclur . eth. lib. . cap. . dr. patrick's . o vitae philosophiae dux o virtutum indagatrix , expultrixque vitiorum ! vnus dies benè & ex praeceptis tuis actus , peccanti immortalitati est anteponendus . mr. iohn smith . deut. . heb. . . ezek. . . rom. . . iob . habak . . . psal. . . i●m . ● psal. . . ver. . ezek. . . notes for div a -e luke . . eph. . . acts . . ioh. . . the design of christianity . ier. . . iohn . . chap. . . ver . . heb. . . iohn . . notes for div a -e solus deus est , in quem peec●tum non cadit ; c●et●ra , cùm sint liberi arbitrii , possunt in utramque partem suam flectere voluntatem . operum juga rejecta ●unt . non disciplinarum . libertas in christo , non fecit innocentie injuriam . mannt ●extota pictatis , sanctitatis , humanitatis , veritatis , castitatis , iustitiae , mi●●ricordiae , benevolentiae , pudicitiae . lib. de pudi●itia . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strom. lib. . p. . eph. . . instit. theol . lib. . cap. . p. . non solùm autem per praevaricationem frustrati sunt legem dei , miscentes vinum aquâ ; sed & suam legem è contrario statuerunt , quae usque adhuc pharisaica vocatur . advers . haeres . lib. . cap. . p. . chap. . vid. iust. mart. dial . cum trypho . p. . tertul . ad scap. p. : rig. orig. cont . c●ls . lib. . p. . cor. . . contra cels. lib. . p. . edit . spenceri . icr. . . rom. . . ductor dubitantium , book chap. . p . edit . . book . chap. . p. . aquatenùs ad omne valet consequentia . religio cogt non potest ; verbis potiùs quàm verberibus res agenda est , ut sit voluntas , lib. . cap. . see the learned dean of canterburies judicious discourse on josh. . . instit. th●ol . cap. . p. . see doctor more 's modest enquiry into the mystery of iniquity , book● . chap. , & . in d●●ret . greg. lib. . tit . . cap. . bellarm. d● amis . grat. cap. . et d● sacram. euchar. l. . c. ▪ exam. c●n. tri● . ses. . cap. vid. chem. exam. con. trid. ses. . cap. ● . chap. ● . sess. . 〈◊〉 . ● . mystery of iniquity , p. . polemical discourses in fol. p. . europe speculum , p. . edit . europae speculum , p. . europe speculum . p. , quamv● sine sacramento poenitentiae [ attritio ] per se ad iustificationem perducere peccatorem ●equeat ; tamen cum ad dei gratian in sacramento paeniten●● impetrandum disponit . sess. . cap. . chap. . europ●e speculum . p. . pag. 〈◊〉 . notes for div a -e phil. iud. p. . ibid. rev. . .