An ansvvere to the fifth part of Reportes lately set forth by Syr Edvvard Cooke Knight, the Kinges Attorney generall Concerning the ancient & moderne municipall lawes of England, vvhich do apperteyne to spirituall power & iurisdiction. By occasion vvherof, & of the principall question set dovvne in the sequent page, there is laid forth an euident, plaine, & perspicuous demonstration of the continuance of Catholicke religion in England, from our first Kings christened, vnto these dayes. By a Catholicke deuyne. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1606 Approx. 1254 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 257 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A09061 STC 19352 ESTC S114058 99849286 99849286 14426 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A09061) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 14426) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 897:16) An ansvvere to the fifth part of Reportes lately set forth by Syr Edvvard Cooke Knight, the Kinges Attorney generall Concerning the ancient & moderne municipall lawes of England, vvhich do apperteyne to spirituall power & iurisdiction. By occasion vvherof, & of the principall question set dovvne in the sequent page, there is laid forth an euident, plaine, & perspicuous demonstration of the continuance of Catholicke religion in England, from our first Kings christened, vnto these dayes. By a Catholicke deuyne. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. [72], 351, 353-386, [15] p. 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Coke, Edward, -- Sir, 1552-1634. -- Reports. Part 5 -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Ecclesiastical law -- Great Britain -- Early works to 1800. 2000-00 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2001-08 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2001-09 TCP Staff (Michigan) Sampled and proofread 2005-06 Rachel Losh Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion OF THE CONTROVERSY Discussed throughout this vvorks . WHat is in the 〈…〉 in the 〈◊〉 yeare of 〈…〉 there is giuen 〈…〉 , power and 〈…〉 , as by any 〈…〉 hath 〈…〉 may lavvfully bee 〈…〉 did assigne , 〈…〉 great Seale of England , 〈…〉 diction whatsoeuer , vvhich ●● any manner ●pirituall , 〈…〉 Authority , or Iurisdiction can , or may lavvfully be vsed , to correct and 〈◊〉 errors , heresies , schismes , abuses &c. The question is Whether this authority and spirituall 〈…〉 to the ancient lawes of England in former times , 〈…〉 were a Statute not introductory 〈…〉 lavv , 〈…〉 only of an old : so as if the said Act had neuer 〈◊〉 made , yet the 〈…〉 that authority , and might haue giuen it to others , as 〈…〉 holdeth the affirmatiue part , and the Catholicke 〈…〉 TO THE RIGHT VVORSHIPFVLL SYR EDVVARD COOKE KNIGHT , His Maiesties Attorney generall : SYR , I had no sooner taken a sight of your last Booke , entituled : The fifth Part of Reportes ( vvhich vvas some number of monethes after the publication therof in England ) but there entred vvith the reading , a certaine appetite of ansvvering the same , and this vpon different motiues , as vvell in regarde of your person and place , abilitie and other circumstances depending theron ; as also of the subiect and argument it selfe , vvhich yovv handled , and manner held in handling therof , to ●he greatest preiudice , vvrong , and disgrace of Catholickes , and Catholicke religion that you could deuise . And first in your person and place , I considered your facultie and profession of the common lavves of our Realme , your long standing , and speciall preferment therin , your experience , and iudgemēt gathered thereby , your estimation and credit in the Common-vvealth , and your authority , honour , and riches ensuing thervpon ; all vvhich drevv me to the greater consideration of your Booke , but principally your said profession of our Common temporall Municipall lawes , vvhich science aboue all other , next to Diuinitie it selfe , doth confirme , and conuince vnto the vnderstanding of an English-man , the truth of the Catholicke Roman religion . For so much as from our very first Christian Kings & Queenes , vvhich must nedes be the origen , and beginning of all Christian common lavves in England , vnto the raigne of King Henry the eight , for the space of more then nyne hundred yeares , all our Princes and people being of one , and the selfe same Catholicke Roman religiō , their lavves must needes be presumed to haue byn conforme to their sense and iudgment in that behalfe , and our lavvyers to the lavves : so as novv to see an English temporall lavvyer to come forth , and impugne the said Catholicke religion , by the antiquity of his Common-lavves , throughout the tymes and raignes of the said Kings , in fauour of Protestāts , Lutheranes , Caluinistes , or other professors not knovvne in those dayes , is as great a nouelty and vvonder , as to see a Philosopher brought vp in Aristotles schole , to impugne Aristotle by Aristotles learning , in fauour of Petrus Ramus , or any other such nevv aduersary , or lately borne Antagonist : Or as to behold an ancient Phisitian , trayned vp in Galens tents , to fight against Galen and Galenistes , out of their ovvne bul-vvarkes , or fortresses , yea and this in ayde of Paracelsians , or any other fresh crevv of Alchimian doctors vvhatsoeuer . 3. This first consideration then , of your person , place , and profession , did inuyte me strongly to come , and see vvhat you said in this behalfe , but no lesse did the argumēt or subiect of your booke , togeather vvith your māner of treating the same , of vvhich tvvo points I shall speake seuerally ; for that they haue seuerall ponderations , & all in my opinion both important , rare , and singular . For vvhat more important matter can be thought of among Christiās , then to treat of Spirituall Power , & Ecclesiasticall Authority , being the kinges bench of Christ on earth , the table of his scepter , the tribunall of his dominion & iurisdiction , vvhereof dependeth the vvhole direction of soules , the remission of our sinnes , the efficacy of his Sacraments , the lavvfulnes of all priesthoode and ministery , the gouernment of the vvhole Church , and finally the vigour , frute , & effect of all Christian religion . This is the importance of your argument M. Attorney , and consider I pray you , vvhether it standeth vs not much in hand , to be attentiue vvhat you say , and hovv substantially you pleade in this matter . 4. And as for the other tvvo circumstances of rarenes , and singularity , vvhere may they more be seene , then in this so vveighty a case , conteyning the vvhole povver of the sonne of God , both in heauen , and earth , for so much as belongeth to remission of sinnes and gouernement of his earthly inheritance , vvhich is heere handled and ouer-ruled by a temporall lavvyer , and by him giuen to a temporall Lady and Queene ; and this not only by force of a temporall Statute , made in Parlamēt to that effect , the first yeare of her raigne , vvhereby Ecclesiasticall Supremacy vvas ascribed vnto her , but by the very vigour of her temporall crovvne it self , vvithout any such Statute , and by vertue of the ancient pretended Common-lavves of our Realme , vvhich Common-lavves being made , receaued , introduced , and established by Catholicke Kings and Queenes , as hath byn said , maketh the matter so strange and rare , the vvonder & admiration so great , as neuer paradox , perhaps in the vvorld , seemed more rare & singular in the eyes of Philosophers , then this in the iudgement of learned Deuines . And vvho then vvould not be allured vvith this singular nouelty to search somvvhat after the depth of so nevv deuised a mystery ? 5. After this ensueth , as considerable , your methode , & manner of handling this subiect , vvhich to me seemeth nothing vulgar , and consequently to you and 〈…〉 particularit●es 〈…〉 ‑ cero ; That yo● 〈…〉 uersies , and 〈…〉 forth . All that 〈…〉 gr●●e rep●●●●● 〈…〉 your side , 〈…〉 vse your 〈…〉 the truth for 〈…〉 modesty , and 〈…〉 7. All th●●●●hin 〈…〉 encourage 〈…〉 reuievv o● 〈…〉 hope to my 〈…〉 modesty , and 〈…〉 so much comm 〈…〉 ued and inten●●● 〈…〉 cleere face 〈…〉 in your 〈…〉 you vvill doe 〈…〉 ‑ cile cedes . 〈…〉 your self ●● the 〈…〉 animo dig●●●●● 〈…〉 se sua spo●te , 〈…〉 in deed to confess●● 〈…〉 & fortitude but 〈…〉 ner goeth grea● 〈…〉 soules , neuer-dying 〈…〉 ●e accompted our highest interest , for that the ●uestion novv in hand betvveene you and me , ●ōcerneth the same most neerly , as in the sequent ●reface vvill more largelie appeare . ● . Novv only I am to say & promise also on my ●ehalfe , that I meane to proceed in the prosecu●ion of this vvorke , according to your foresaid ●rescriptions of truth , temperance , modesty , and vr●anity , and this both in center , and circumference , ●s neere as I can , and if necessity at anie time , or ●pon anie occasion , shall enforce me to be more earnest , it shall be rather in the matter it self , then against the man , I meane your self , vvhose person and place , I shall alvvaies haue in devv regard , though I may not omit to tell you , that in some partes of your booke ( especially tovvardes the end thereof ) you vvax so vvarme in your accusations against Catholickes , & Catholicke religion , ( vvhich your progenitors and auncestors did so highly reuerence , honour , and esteeme ) as the indignity thereof , and the leuity , and open vntruth of the cauillations , & calumniations themselues ( for so in deed they are to be accompted rather then graue accusations ) did enkyndle in me some extraordinary heat , for their reiection , and depulsion , as you vvil see in the places themselues , but especially in the last chapter of my expostulations against you . 9. Out of vvhich I must here againe repeat one thing briefly , vvhich there I haue more at large declared , and more earnestly vrged , to vvit the obligation you haue both in honour and conscience , according to the rules of all true Christian diuinitie , to enforme rightlie his Maiesty in certayne pointes , vvherin your self being at that time deceaued , misinformed also his highnes , at the first presentation of your Booke vnto him , if my information thereof be true . And for that the point it self is of very great consequence , and that the misconceat or vvrong impression of his Maiesty , ma●e be to the great preiudice of manie of his dutifull subiectes , I am the more earnest to vrge this obligation vpon you , especiallie for that I vnderstand , that since the edition of your booke , you haue in a certayne publicke Act , solemne assemblie , and most honorable auditorie , repeated againe , and auouched the said iniurious assertion , concerning Catholickes , that their Recusancy began vpon disloyaltie , by occasion of the excommunication of Q. Elizabeth by Pope Pius Quintus vpon the eleuenth yeare of her raigne , and for that cause , and not before , nor vpon anie other motiue . 10. VVhich iniurious charge , though it vvere sufficientlie refuted there in presence , by the * prisoner at the barre , to the satisfaction of al indifferent people , that might easilie descrie your passion ●●erin ; yet haue I shevved the same more at length ●● my said last Chapter of this booke , vvhich I ●ould vvish you had read , before so confidentlie ●ou had repeated the same charge againe in the ●●id assemblie , auouching vpon your fidelitie , and ●●ervpon challēging anie Recusant vvhatsoeuer , ●●at noe Catholicke , or other refused to repaire to our seruice , vntill the said eleuenth yeare of the Queenes raigne : but I haue shevved out of pu●licke testimonies that you ar deceaued therin , & ●●at both manie Catholickes , & Puritanes vvere ●pen Recusants before that yeare , and neither of ●●em vpō that cause vvhich you suggest : & so you ●●e hovv farre your fidelitie , vvhich you pavvne ●or the matter maie hereby come in question . ●● . I could further put you in mind , of manie ●ther ouerlashing speaches , tending to the hurte ●nd dāmage , yea bloud and death also , of diuers ●sed by you in that great assemblie , if I thought ●ou vvould take it frendlie , and helpe your self ●●ereby to the right examen of your conscience ●etvvene God and you , vvhen you are alone , as ●atholicke doctrine teacheth men to doe , espe●●ally of iniurious vvordes against their brethren , ●herof our Sauiour Christ in S. Mathewes ghospel ●ronoūceth so seuere a sentence , as he appointeth ●oth iudgment , counsaile , & hel fyre for punishmēt of the same ; and addeth further , that no idle word shall passe from vs , whereof we shall not giue accompt in the day of iudgement : and if not idle vvordes , hovv much lesse slaunderous , calumnious , and infamatory ? vvhereof you vsed store against manie innocent men that day , especially against Fa : Garnet , and his ovvne Order of Iesuites , vvherof some I may not pretermit in this place . 12. You said at the very first entrance vnto your speach in that place , that you vvould speake of nothing but of the late most horrible treason , vvhich for distinctiōs sake you vvould call the Iesuits treason . For if it be iust ( saie you ) that euery thing be called by the name of the Author , then seing the Iesuits haue byn the Authors of this treason , you vvould not doe them the iniurie , to take from them anie thing vvhich is theirs , or to miscall anie thing vvhich appertayneth properlie to them , especiallie seing in euery crime : plus peccat auctor quàm actor ; the author is more culpable and blame-vvorthie then the actor , as is apparent by the example ( saie you ) of Adam , Eue , and the Serpent , where the Serpent for that it was the first author of that attempt , committed three sinns , Eua that was tempted , two sinns , and Adam that was the chiefest actor , but one sinne . This vvas your eloquence at that time , & I doubt not but that the learned prisoner standing at the barre , vvhome you othervvise so highlie commended for this talents , if other cir●umstances had giuen him leaue , could haue smi●ed at your exact enumeratiō of the diuells sinnes , vvho yet , for that it is not read , that he did eate ●nie of the apple vvith Adam and Eue , it is like you vvould be much troubled to finde out his three ●eueral sinnes in that matter , if you vvere put vnto ●he proofe , and you knovv vvhat our common ●aying is : That it is a shame to bely the Diuell . 13. But to leaue this point to be discussed betvveene you , I must needes saie , that you offer the Iesuites an apparent iniurie , in making this last ●reason so proper and peculiar to them , as that you vvill needes haue it called the Iesuites treason , ●nd they to be the principall Authors ; vvhereas notvvithstanding , vvhen all came to all , no other ●hing ( I vveene ) vvas proued against them , but ●hat the prisoner there present , had receaued only a simple notice of that treason , by such a meanes as he could not vtter , and reueale againe by the lavves of Catholicke doctrine , that is to saie , in Confession , and this but a very fevv daies before the discouerie , but yet neuer gaue anie consent , helpe , hearkening , approbation , or cooperation to the same ; but contrari-vvise sought to dissuade , dehorte , and hinder the designment by all the meanes he could . 14. And is this sufficient M. Attorney , to laie the denomination of this foule fact , vpon the vvhole order of Iesuites ? that one of them , or tvvo at the most knevv thereof by such a vvaie , as probablie they could not auoid , or preuent the knovvledge , not fore-seeing vvhat he penitent vvould confesse , and once hauing heard it in that manner , remained bound by the inuiolable seale of that Sacrament not to vtter the same , but in such manner as the confitent should allovv of , though neuer so great temporall dammage vvere imminent for the concealement . And this is the sacred band of a Catholicke priestly conscience , much like to that of Angells , vvho though they knovv manie great hurtes or dangers to hang ouer kingdomes , States , Common vvealthes , or particuler men , & be desirous out of their loue to mankinde to preuent the same ; yet are they not free to reueale vvhat they knovv thereof in regarde of anie future good or hurt vvhatsoeuer , but onlie vvhere they are permitted , and licenced in particular : & yet ar they not iustlie to be accompted accessarie to the euills that fal out , & much lesse authors of the same for their silence , or not reuealing , as in this case of the Iesuits you labour to inferre . 15. But in truth Sir it seemeth that you attended more to the art of Oratory , then to the coherence of Truth in that your speach , for that presentlie after your former vvordes you added these for the beginning of your declamatiō . In this discourse I will speake ( saie you ) of no other circumstances but of treason , and of no other treasons , but the Iesuits trea●ons , & of no other Iesuits treasons , but such as shal par●iculerly concerne this prisoner . VVherin notvvith●tāding verie soone after contradicting your self , you brought in a long discourse of the antiquity , ●nd inuisibilitie of your Church ; as also of Equi●ocation , and manie other things , vvhich are no ●ircumstances of treason . You handled also of ●he Northerne Earles , Excommunication of the Queeene , and diuers other such things as hap●ened before the Iesuits came into England , and ●onsequentlie could be no Iesuits treasons . And vvhen you come to treat of the prisoner him●elf , and to proue him a traitor , you begin vvith ● Statute set forth in the 23. yeare of the late Queenes raigne , vvhich made all Iesuits , and other Pristes traitors , that came into England , or remained in the same , and consequentlie concerned not the prisoner in such speciall māner , as you vvould seeme to promise : or if it did , yet manie other things you bring in and handle , as that of Lopus the Ievv , VVilliams , York , Squier , Colen , partlie Protestants , and partli● Catholickes , vvho vvhatsoeuer their causes vvere ( vvherof somvvhat shal be spoken after ) yet touched they nothing at all that prisoner , vvho yet neuer dealt vvith them , nor euer vvas accused concerning them . VVherevpon is inferred , that no one of your three-fold members before mentioned vvas performed by you : to vvit , that you would speake of no other circumstances , but of treason , and of no other treasons , but of Iesuits treasons , & of no other Iesuits treasons , but such as should particulerly concerne the prisoner at the barre . 16. But this defect I suppose that all your auditorie did not obserue , by reason of the multitude of other tumultuary matters , dravvne in by you against the said prisoner , but yet your Rhetoricke in amplifying one point , about the first lavv alleadged against the comming in of Priests and Iesuitts , vvas so markeable , as no man I thinke , vvas so dull , as did not obserue it , and beare it avvay . To vvit , that vvhereas the said lavv did forbid all Priests , vnder paine of death and treason , not to come into England , or execute anie parte of their priestlie function vvithin the Realme , as to preach , teach , offer sacrifice , heare Confessions , absolue from sinnes , reconcile to God , and to the vnion of his Catholicke Church , dissuade from sects and heresies , and other like offices ; you in commendation of that lavv , protested to proue it , to be the most myldest law , the sweetest law , the law most full of mercy and pitty , that euer was enacted by any Prince so iniuriously prouoked . And you added in the heat of your eloquence , that if you proued ●ot this , then let the vvorld saie : That Garnet is an honest man. VVhich vvas a vvarrāt to al the hearers , up hold him for such ; for so much as no man vvas there so simple , but savv it impossible for you to ●roue that assertion , and consequentlie that in all their hearings you canonized his honesty . ●● . For hovv did you go about to proue ( M. Attor●●y ) that this lavv was so myld , so ful of pitty , & lenity ? ●or sooth , for that you saie , the meaning was by kee●ing Priests of , and expelling those that were within , to ●●are their bloud , though if they retyred not to spill it . ●magine that then if in Queene Maryes dayes ( for ●xample ) such a lavv had byn made against Prote●tant-Ministers that came from Geneua and other ●laces of Germany , vvould you ( M. Attorney ) haue ●eemed that lavv a gentle law , a sweet & myld law , a ●aw ful of mercy , pitty & clemēcy ? I presume you dare ●ot saie it . But let vs vse an other example of much ●ore moment . If in the Apostles time , such a lavv ●ad byn made by anie King or Emperour of con●rarie religion to them , that if anie of the said Apostles or Priests ( for so they vvere ) should enter ●nto their dominions to preach a contrarie do●trine to the religion there receaued and establis●ed , and to exercise anie of their Apostolicall or Priestlie functions , it should be treason and paine of death : could this be called a myld law ? a sweet lavv ? a lavv ful of pitty & compassion ? a lavv made for not spilling their bloud ? or vvould , or could the Apostles , or their follovvers haue obeyed this lavv ? or did they obey the Gouernours of the Ievves ( othervvise their lavvfull Superiours , vvhen they cōmanded them to preach no more in the name of Christ , or to disperse Christian doctrine , vvhich they called seditious , or to reconcile anie to Christian religion , vvhich they held for treason ? or did they flie , though Princes & Emperours aftervvardes by publicke Edicts did commaund them out of their dominions ? or is there not another bloud to be respected , called by the Prophet , the bloud of the soule , vvhereof the Pastor shall be guiltie if he flie for feare , or forsake his flocke in time of daunger and persecution ? is not all this so ? or can it be denyed ? or haue not English Priests the same obligation of conscience to help their Coūtrey , and countrymen in spirituall necessities , as had the Apostles and Apostolicke men to strangers , for vvhose helpe yet they vvere content to offer their liues and incurre anie daunger vvhatsoeuer ? VVherefore M. Attorney to speake a truth , if you deale vvith men of vnderstanding , it is but fond ; and if of Christian courage , it is but trifling eloquence , all that in this point you haue vsed about the myldnes , svveetnes , mercy , and compassion of this cruell , and bloudy lavv of Queene Elizabeth . Children maie be delighted , and de●uded vvith such bables , but vvise-men doe laugh at them . 18. Concerning the other heads of doctrine , vvhich pleased you to handle in this arraignemēt ●t the barre , vvith no small ostentation of vvor●es , as being in your ovvne Center , namelie : Of the Antiquity of your Church , Equiuocation , and some ●ther such points , as they vvere not much ad rem , in that assemblie & busines , so could your friends ●aue vvished , that either you had omitted them al●ogeather , or handled them more substantiallie : or as for Equiuocation , or mentall reseruation of a ●●ne sense in a doubtful speach , it seemeth plainlie ●●at you vnderstād not the Questiō , nor the mea●ing , vvhich both ancient and moderne learned ●en haue , in holding that true , and necessarie ●octrine ; & no marueile , for t●at it hath not byn ( I ●●inke ) your educatiō to be troubled much vvith scrupulositie of vvordes , to vvit , vvhat sense maie ●e held therin vvithout sinne , & vvhat not , the ●●amen of vvhich matters belong to more tender ● timerous cōsciences then Kings Attorneyes cō●onlie are presumed to haue , vvho must speake ●o the purpose , hovvsoeuer it be to the truth . And ●● it vvell appeared in that arraignment , vvherof ●e novv treat , but intend to proceed no further ●●erein , for that the prisoner himself ansvvered this point sufficientlie at the barre , as also to the Lordes before in the tovver , and a more large discourse maie be made therof hereafter , if neede shall require . 19. As for your other article , about the Antiquity and continuance of your Church , a man maie easily see , that you sought an occasion to bring it in , by making an obiection on the behalfe of Iesuitts against the same , and thereby to shevv your skill in ansvvering . They hold their religion ( saie you ) to be the old Religion , where ours is the new , confyned to England ; where on the contrary side their Religion is vniuersall , and embraced in the greatest part of this Christian worlde . And thus for the maintenance of their rotten Religion , doe they seeke to disgrace and blemish our Ghospell . But ( good syr ) if your ghospell be that of the foure Euangelistes novv receaued , vve pretend that it is as much our ghospell as yours , and more also , for that you receaued it from vs , and vpon our Churches credit , and for that you call rotten Religion , if euer it vvere Religion , then neuer can it rott , except you put no difference betvvene apples and religion . But let vs heare hovv you vvill ansvvere this obiection in your ovvne vvordes , as they came set dovvne vnto me from your ovvne mouth . 20. But to this ( saie you ) I will answere , that if our Ghospell be as ancient as Luther , it is more ancient then the Iesuitts are ( though not I trovv then Iesuitts religion ) albeit it be not conteyned in these narrow limitts of place , nor bands of time , which they feignedly imagine , hauing byn euer since the time of Christ , and his Apostles . For we doe not deny but that Rome was the mother-Church , and had thirty two virginall martyrs of her Popes a-row , & so continued til in succeeding ages it brought in a masse of errors , and idle ceremonyes . But you will aske perhaps , where our Church lurked before Luthers coming , for some hundreds of yeares ? But I say it makes no great matter where it was , so that I ●m certaine it was , for as a wedge of gold , if it be dissol●ed , and mixed with a masse of brasse , tinne , and other metalls doth not loose his nature , but remaineth gold still although we cannot determine in what part of the masse it is conteined , but the touch-stone will fynde it out : so though our Church hath euer byn since Christes time in the vvorld , yet being mixed , and couered vvith innoua●ons , and errours , vve cannot tell in vvhat part it vvas . And I dare say , that it is novv more extended then theirs ● : for vve haue * all England , all Scotland , all Germany , al Denmarke , a great part of France , al Poland , & some part of Italie . These are your vvordes , if the Relators haue byn exact in setting them dovvne , as they saie they haue byn . And then is there ●o maruaile , though you impugne so much the doctrine of scrupulous reseruation of true sense in ambiguous speeches , vvhereas so manifestlie you ouer-lash in all those periods , vvhich heere you haue layed before vs. 21. But to the matter it self , about the Antiquity Continuance , Succession , Visibility , and Assurance of the Church , vvhereas you graunt , that the Roman Church , vvas the true mother-Church from the beginning , and had two and thirty virginall martyrs ( for so you call them ) for her Popes one after the other , vvithout interposition of anie one Bishop , that vvas not martyr , for more then the space of three hundred yeares ; you graunt vs so much in this assertion , if it be vvel considered , as it vvill be hard for you to take it from vs againe aftervvard in your sequent negation , vvhich I shal shevv you brieflie by tvvo conuincing Arguments , the one Theologicall , the other Morall . 22. The first is , that if the Church of Rome vvas the true mother-Church of Christ , and Christian religion for so great a space as you assigne ; then no doubt vvere all the predictions , and promises of Prophets for the greatnes , eminency , honour , certeyntie , & florishing perpetuitie of the said Christian Church fulfilled in her : Christes peculier promises in like manner , that he would be vvith her to the end of the vvorld , that the holy ghost should lead her into all truth , that hell-gates ( vvhich properlie signify errours and heresies ) should neuer preuaile against her , that she should be the piller , and foundation of truth , & all men bound to obey and beleeue her , vvas ●eant also & performed in this Roman-Church for three hundred yeares and more , and promised ●● be performed to the end of the vvorld : vvherof ●●sueth , that either God is not able to performe what he promiseth ( for of his vvill there can be no doubt , seing he hath promised ) or else it cannot vvithout impiety be conceaued , and much ●●se beleeued , that this Roman-mother-Church , so ●●anted in the beginning by Christ , and his Apo●●es bloud , and so vvatered for three hundred yeares togeather by the bloud of all her Bishops , ●● spread ouer the vvorld , as S. Paul of his ovvne time testifyeth that her faith & religion vvas , and aftervvard all Ecclesiasticall histories vvithin the time prescribed & after , doe declare , that all other Churches commonly , at least-vvise of the vvest-world , vvere her daughters by foundation , & our ●reat-Britany among the rest ; it is impossible ( I say ) to imagine vvith piety , hovv this Queene of the vvorld , hovv this florishing Church , hovv this golden vvedge ( to vse your ovvne similitude ) should so be dissolued & mingled vvith brasse , tinne , copper , & other such contemptible mettalls , vvhich you cal Errours , & innouations , as that her Religion should become rotten , according to your phrase , & her self in steed of being the true kingdome , inheritāce & spouse of Christ , become his enemy his aduersary , an aduovvtresse , and the verie povver of Sathan himself against him , as you M. Attorney doe make her . 23 Hovv , I praie you can this be thought ? by vvhat reason or probability maie it be imagined vvhen ? hovv ? by vvhat meanes might this metamorphosis be made ? The very next age after the forsaid Martyr-Popesliued S. Augustine , vvho reciting the said Popes , and their Successors vnto his daie● called them all holy vvithout distinction , and by their lineal succession in the said Church of Rome did persuade himself to haue demonstrated the truth of all Catholicke Religion , as vvell in Africa vvhere he vvas , as throughout the vvhole vvorld , against all heretickes . 24. And after him againe liued in the same Sea , as Bishops thereof S. Leo , and S. Gregory , both of them surnamed Great , in respect of their great sanctitie , great learning , and famous acts : and vvith them , and after them concurred and suceeeded in other Christian Churches of the vvorld , as Fathers and Doctors S. Maximus , S. Prosper , Vincentius Lyrinensis , S. Gregory of Tovvers , S. Fulgentius , S. Benedict , and others , all making the same accompt of the Roman Church , doctrine , sanctity , and authority thereof , as the former Fathers did . And hovv then could come in this transfusion , and transmutation of gold into lead , vvhich you dreame of M. Attorney , and are content to deceaue your ●●f and others , to your eternall perill of perdition 〈◊〉 this nevv inuention of a golden wedge , vvhereof ●●n saie that you are a fast friend : but this apper●●yneth rather to my second argument , to shevv the morall impossibilitie also of this seelie fiction . For let vs suppose that there vvere a wedge ●● gold so dearelie bought and purchased , so care●●●lie deliuered , and ●o earnestlie recōmended to the possessors as the Church of Christ vvas vnto his disciples and follovvers , and that there vvere so ●any vvatch-men appointed to looke continu●●lie vpon this golden wedge , and so sure a guard allovved them for defence of the same , as Christ appointed Pastors ouer his Church , offering them for guard his vvhole povver and omnipotencie ●o defend it ; and if this vvere so , hovv could this ●●edge , that from the beginning vvas pure golde , ●●e imagined to loose her nature , and passe into other baser mettalls , or be melted , mingled , dissolued , or changed into the same , vvithout that any ●ne of the foresaid vvatch-men should open his ●outh , resist , or testify this chaunge ? Are not ●hese morall impossibilities , and metaphysicall imaginations onlie , to delude your selues and others ? ●6 . Let vs compare then brieflie these matters togeather . VVe read in all Authors , and see by experience , that in sixteene hundred yeares sin● Christ his Church vvas founded , and set on foot that in euerie age the Doctors , Prelates , and Pastors , that vvere vvatch-men of the Church for that time , vvere so diligent in their vvatch , as 〈◊〉 least errour or heresie appeared in their daies bu●● presentlie they cryed out , made vvarre against i● and finallie by help and assistance of their guard and Captaine , in the end ouercame , and vanguished the same . Let the examples of Simon Magus● Philetus , Hymenaeus , Cerinthus , Ebion , Menander , and other heretickes rising vp amongst the Apostle be examples for the first age : Saturninus , Basilide Carpocrates , Cerdon , Valentinus , Marcion , Apelle●● and others for the second : Nouatus , Sabellius , Manes , Noetus and their follovvers for the third : Arrius , Aerius , Photinus , Iouinian , Donatus , Apollinaris & their adherents for the fourth : & so in euerie age vnto our dayes , vvherein no man vvas spared though he vvere neuer so great , no former meritts respected though neuer so many , if he vttered any thing against the common receaued vniuersall Catholicke faith . And so vve see that both Origen and Tertullian most rare learned men vvere condemned ; Osius and Lucifer Calaritanus tvvo famous Bishops noted ; S. Cyprian also one of the oracles of the Christian vvorld called in question for points of doctrine different from the vniuersall Church VVhereof vve doe inferre most euidentlie and ●●ainlie , that if any Fathers in the eusuing ages ●● vttered anie thing in their speaches , sermons , vvritings , that in any least point had byn different from the said vniuersall Catholicke doctrine , it vvould haue byn resisted in like man●●● and noted in one Countrey or other , and ●●er vvould haue passed for Catholicke do●●●ne to their posteritie , vvithout note or repre●●sion at all . As for example , to take one for all , for that ●●one all maie be iudged of . If S. Augustine that 〈◊〉 more then a hundred yeares after those mar●●● Popes of Rome , vvhich you mention , did ●●th preach and vvrite in so manie places of his ●orkes , of Purgatory , of the Sacrifice of the Masse , ● Iustification by good vvorkes , of Praier for the ●●●d , of the single life of Clergy-men , of the Perfection ●●religious life , of the Preheminencie of the Sea of ●●me , and manie other such articles expreslie ●●posite to that you hold commonlie in England , ●hich he handleth so plainlie as anie of vs can ●●e in these our dayes ; if anie of these pointes ●●d byn strange or nevv doctrine at that time , 〈◊〉 so much as suspected of error , heresie , or fal●●●ood , no man of common sense can imagine , ●ut that they vvould haue byn contradicted , or ●oted by some man or other , so manie learned godly men liuing vvith him , and after him : b● this vvill neuer be proued to be so , or that the points , or the like vvherein vve differ from 〈◊〉 Protestans vvere either in him , or other , noted ●● condemned for heresies , and consequentlie b●● this argument of morall euidence it is conuince● that they vvere neuer accompted either errors , 〈◊〉 heresies , before the hereticall contradictions 〈◊〉 these later ages sprang vp , & that by such as vve●● accompted and condemned by the vniuersal Church of Christ for hereticks themselues . 28. And as for the comparison of the true Catholicke Church of Christ vnto a wedge of gold so mingled vvith lead copper & baser mettalls , as it cannot be knovvne vvhere it is , is a verie base and leadden comparison by M. Attorneyes leaue . For if the Church must baptize , the Church must instruct vs , the Church must gouerne vs , and minister vs Sacraments , resolue our doubts , and giue vs directions to life euerlasting , hovv can men repaire vnto her that is so hidden & couered as she can neither be seene , nor found ? Nay you saie , it makes no great matter where she is , so you be certaine that she be . By vvhich doctrine a man in England may be as vvell saued by a Church in Constantinople or in the Indyes , as in England it self , seing there is no conuersation necessarie vvith it , no cōference , to treaty , no recourse , no dependence of it , no obediēce vnto it , nor importeth it vvhere ●t be , so I be sure it be in some place , though I knovv not vvhere , or in vvhome . And vvhat doth ●his certaintie auaile me M. Attorney , if I haue no ●enefit from her ? These be those monstrous and strange Chimeraes in deed , floating in vncertaintyes , vvhich you mention in your Preface to the Rea●er , for that these are euacuations , and exinanitiōs ●f all fruite of Christian doctrine , dravving all to ●eere fancyes of idle conceites , vvithout effectes ●f anie substantiall fruite , or spiritual helpe vvhat●oeuer . For vvhereas all the ancient Fathers in all ●●eir vvorkes doe labour to set forth vnto vs the ●●finite real benefits , vvhich vve receaue by being in the true Catholicke Church , as all those before mentioned , of instruction , gouerment , grace ●y Sacraments , remission of sinnes , and the like , and that it is impossible to be saued vnles a man ●●e in her , reuerence her , heare and obey her , feare ●● go out of her , and consequentlie haue daily and ●ourlie treating vvith her , and dependance of ●●er , vvvhich cannot be vvithout certaine knovv●●dge vvhere she is , or euident signes hovv to knovv and discerne her from all others ; you by a contrarie nevv deuise , neuer heard of I thinke be●●re , doe affirme , that it importeth not where your church was for many ages , and hundreds of yeares , so ●●at she were at all . 29. And thus much for her inuisibilitie in those ages , but novv she is become visible in our daies : Nay you doe set her forth vvith so great an enlargement of greatnes and glorious apparence , as you say she is more extended now then ours ; For that ( quoth you ) vve haue all England , all Scotland , all Germany , all Denmarke , all Poland , a great part of France , and some part of Italie . VVherein your large extension of your Church in this second parte of your Relation ( if vve could beleeue you ) is no lesse strange , then vvas your restriction of her secresie and inuisibilitie in the first . For vvho vvil graunt you al England for Protestants , vvhen they shall see so many prouisions made against both English Catholickes , & Puritanes , vvhich later part of men , as vvel as the former ; that they cānot make one Church vvith you , shall presētlie be shevved in the Preface of this vvorke . 30. Hovv you haue all Germany for youres , there being so manie religions , and the greatest parte Catholicke , and other different Sects greatlie disagreeing from you , I knovv not by vvhat figure you can make your Reader to beleeue that you speake truth The like I saie of Denmarke , vvhere al are Lutheranes , and not of your Church , nor vvill it admit Caluinistes to dvvell , or dy , or be buried amongst them . Of all Poland , it is a notable hyperbole , for so much as both the King ●●d State professe publicklie the Catholicke reli●●on , and the Sectaryes that are in that kingdome ●●e Trinitarians , Arrians , Anabaptists , more perhaps ●●nuber then Caluinistes . I marueile you omitted ●●ecia and Noruegia , vvhere , as they are not Catho●●●kes , so are they not of your religion or Church ; 〈◊〉 nor those of France neither , though they be ●●luinistes ( for as for your some parte of Italie , I ●old to be no parte at all , nor vvas it anie thing ●se but a certaine ouerflovving of your speach to ●ake the full sound of a greater number ) the Pro●●stants of France ( I say ) cannot make one Church ●●ith you ; as neither those of Scotland , vvith the residue of Holland , Zealand , and other of ●●ose Prouinces vnited of Geneua , as their Mo●●er-Church : these ( I say ) being all Puritanes ●●d Precisians , cannot make any Church vvith ●ou in that vnion of faith and doctrine , vvhich ●●e vnity of a Church requireth , as by your , and ●●eir ovvne confession , vvritinges , testimonyes , ●●d protestations is extant in the vvorld to be ●●ene . Wherefore I shall desire the intelligent Rea●●r , to make vvith me a briefe recollection about ● . Attorneyes doctrine for his Church . First he ●●aunteth , as you haue heard , the Roman Church 〈◊〉 haue byn the true Mother-Church for diuers ●ges togeather , spread ouer the vvhole vvorld , dilated throughout all Prouinces , perspicuous eminent , and admirable in florishing glorie by the greatnes and multitude of her children , professing Christ euery-vvhere in vnion of faith , doctrine , and Sacraments , as the holie Fathers i● those ages , and others ensuing doe testify vnto vs 32. Secondlie he vvill haue this glorious Churc● so to haue fallen sicke , pyned and vvithered● vvay vvithout groaning , and so to haue vanishe● out of mens sightes , as she could not be knovvn vvhere she vvas for many hundred yeares togeather : nay he vvill haue her to be like a wedge o● golde , so corrupted and mingled vvith lead an● tinne , as no man can tell vvhere the gold lieth except he try it vvith the touch-stone , vvhich touch stone in our case , he saith to be the scripture , vvhereby the Church must by euerie man be tryed and touched : so as ech one that vvill knovv this Church , and haue benefit from the same , mus● touch her first , & see vvhether she be the Church or no , and so in-steed of submitting himself vnto her , and to be directed by her , he must first mak● himselfe touch-maister and Iudge ouer her . 33. Thirdlie M Attorney hauing shifted of this time of the inuisibility of his Church in this sort he novv in this last age maketh her so visible againe vpon the suddaine , as that she comprehendeth all the Churches of the aforenamed King●●mes , of vvhat Sect or profession soeuer , so that ●●●y differ from the Catholicke , vvhich are some ●●ne or ten Sectes at the least , al dissenting amōg ●●●mselues , & professing in their vvritings , actes ●●d doings , that they are not of one religion , nor ●●nsequentlie can be of one Church ; and yet e●●●ie one goeth vvith his touch-stone in his hand 〈◊〉 vvit the Bible ) as vvell as M. Attorney , and are ●eady to touch him , and his Church , as he them ●●d theirs , but vvith different effect and successe : 〈◊〉 he fyndeth by this touchstone ( as you haue ●●ard ) that all they are of his Church , but they ●●d euery one of them by the same touch-stone , ●●e fynde the contrary , and not one of them vvill ●●unt ( I saie not one ) of all the vvhole number of nevv Sectes , that the Church of Englād as novv standeth , is either the true Church of Christ , or ●●eir Church ; and in this I dare ioyne issue vvith ● Attorney , out of their ovvne bookes , assertions , ●●d protestations . So as novv M. Attorney , that vvhich in the ●●●iptures is so memorable of it self , so commen●●d by Christ our Sauiour , so respected by the A●●stles , so testifyed and defended by the primitiue ●artyrs , so magnifyed by the ancient Doctors ●●d Fathers , and by all good Christians so reue●●nced and dreaded , I meane the glorious name ●f the Catholicke and vniuersall Church , and the benefit to be in her , and of her , vvithout vvhich no saluation can be hoped for of Christ , but ineuitable and euerlasting perdition , by vvhich on the other side , and in which , saluation onlie maie be attained ; all this ( I saie ) is come to be so poore , base , and contemptible a thing vvith you , and so vncertayne , as you knovv not vvhere your Church is , nor greatlie care , so that at all she be ; and vvhen you name your Sectary-brethren , and associates therein , they denie you and your alliance , as you see ; and vvhen you assigne your touch-stone of scriptures , they vse the same against you , and proue thereby youres to be no Church , and ech one of themselues in seuerall to be the onlie true and Christian Church . And this haue you gained by leauing the Roman , vvhich you graunt in old times to haue byn the holy mother-Church : see vvherevnto you are come , and this shall suffice for this matter . 35. This epistle vvould grovv ouerlong , if I should entertaine my self in all the impertinent speeches , vvhich you had that daie ( in your glorie as it semeth ) against Catholickes , the least parte vvhereof , did in vvise-mens sightes , concerne the prisoner at the barre , though by your Rhetoricall application , all vvas dravven vpon him by hooke or by crooke : for that Yorke , VVilliams , Colen , Squiar and Lopus vvere brought in squadron , to muster there to that effect , vvherof all notvvithstanding , except the last , are defended , and their conspiracies most euidentlie proued to haue byn feygned , by a learned , vvorthy , and vvorshipfull gentleman of our Countrey , dedicated these yeares past to the Lords of the late Queenes priuie Counsell : and vvhether they vvere true or false , yet touched they not Fa : Garnet , vvho neuer had acquaintance or treaty vvith them . 36. And vvhereas you saie that he came into England , with purpose to prepare the way , against the great compounded nauy that followed in the yeare 1588. It is euident that his comming into England , vvas tvvo yeares and a halfe , at the least , before the saied time , vvhen there vvas neither notice , nor speach , nor perhapps so much as a thought of that nauie to come : and vvhen aftervvard it appeared on our seas , it had not so much as one English Priest or Iesuit in all that multitude of men , vvhich is like it vvould haue had , if M. Henry Garnet , and M. Robert South-well that came in togeather , had byn sent to prepare the vvaie for the same . Your combinations also of bookes and attemptes , the one allwaies ( as you saie ) accompanying the other , though you esteemed it perhaps a vvittie fine deuise , and probable to the vnlearned hearers that cannot distinguish of times or things ; yet others that looked into the matter more iudiciouslie , and found neither coherence of time , or subiect , betvveene the booke by you named , and the attempts pretended , laughed in their sleeues , remembring the saying of the Poet : Non sat commodè diuisa sunt temporibus tibi Daue haec . I vvill reapeat your vvordes of one onlie comparison , and thereof let the rest be iudged : Then cometh forth Squiar ( saie you ) with his plot of treason , but this not alone neither , but was accompanyed with another pernicious booke written by Dolman : vvhich vvordes importe that Dolmans booke did accompanie Squiars treason , but he that shall examine the order of Chronologie , shal fynde in this matter , that Dolmans booke vvas in print foure yeares ( at least ) before Squiars treason ( if he committed treason ) vvas euer heard of ; nor hath the argument of the booke anie more affinitie at all vvith Squiars fact , then hath a fox vvith a figg tree , but onlie that your floating Chimeraes , intoxicating ( to vse your ovvne vvordes ) your hearers braynes , doe make you seeme to speake oftentimes mysticallie , vvhen in deede you speake miserablie . 37. Yovv remember ( I thinke ) hovv the aforesaid gentleman in his booke ( for others doe not forget it ) gaue you a friendlie reprehension , by the vvordes of the famous Orator Catulus , or rather of Cicero in his name , for a ridiculous fact of yours in vveeping , and shedding manie teares in follovving the fiction of Squiars conspiracie at the barre , therebie to vvynne credit , and shevv your self admirable at that time to the Earle of Essex , and others in authoritie : but novv I am to expostulate vvith you vpon this occasion , for another no lesse patheticall excesse , vttered in pleading against M. Garnet , vvherein not so much your teares did run , as your haires did stand and stare , and your eares glovv , to heare blasphemie vttered by him in a certaine letter of his intercepted : VVherein ( saie you ) was conteyned one of the most horrible blasphemyes that euer I heard proceed from any Atheist , and maketh my haire to stand on end to thinke of it . So you saie . 38. And vvhat vvas this horrible blasphemie ( good Syr ) that put your tender , and religious hart in such a pittifull plight and horror ? It follovveth that he had written with the iuyce of a lemmō to his friendes abroad out of the tower , that he had byn often examined , but nothing was produced against him , but yet , necesse est , vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo . So you alleadged the text , and added presentlie : See how he assumeth most blasphemously to himself the wordes that were spoken of Christ our Sauiour , but I hope ere he dy , he will repent him of this blasphemy . 39. But ( good Syr ) did you looke vpon the place of S. Iohns gospell , before you recited the same , and plaied this pageant in so solemne an essemblie ? Yf you did , then vvill you fynd that these vvordes vvere spoken by an euill man , vnto an euill sense in his ovvne meaning , to vvit by Caiphas , that persuaded first in a Councell gathered vpon the resuscitation of Lazarus , to put Christ to death , thereby to content the Romanes , vvho had the vvhole Ievvish nation in iealosie of their loyaltie tovvardes the Emperour , and that novv by putting one to death that vvas accused ( though falslie ) to denie tribute to be paied to Cesar , they should cleere their credit vvith the said Emperour , and by his onlie death preuent the destruction of the said Ievvish people by the Romane armies , and therefore he said : Expedit nobis , vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo , & non totagens pereat . It is expedient for vs , that one man dy for the people , to the end the vvhole nation be not destroied . And therefore he saieth not necesse est , as you cite the vvordes , but expedit , to shevv his politicall drift therein . 40. And this being Caiphas his crastie and vvicked counsaile , and his vvordes in his sense , bearing this meaning , the holie ghost ( vvhich as S. Chrysostome and other holie Fathers doe affirme , ostantum , & non scelestum eius cor attigit , moued his tongue and not his vvicked mind , and vvas in his vvordes , not in his sense ) made him vnvvittinglie to vtter a prophesie , and a great high misterie , that except one man ( to vvit Christ ) should die for the sinnes of the people , none could be saued . Novv then ( Syr ) this sentence of Caiphas hauing tvvo meanings and senses , as you haue heard , let vs examine vvhich vvas most probable to be vsed and alluded vnto by M. Garnet , vvho gathering by manie coniectures , that you , and some other of his good friendes , had a great desire to bring the Iesuitts vvithin the compasse of this late odious treason , or at least-vvise vvithin the suspition or hatred thereof , for that the lay-gentlmen partakers of the fact , vvere thought to be deuoted tovvardes them , and their Order ; and seing that God vnexpectedlie had deliuered him into your handes , he might verie vvell thinke , that he at least should paie for the rest , and die also of likeli-hood for disgracing the rest , and in that sense alluded to the vvordes of Caiphas , tending to like policie . 41. But novv for the second sense , vvhich particularlie designed the death of Christ our Sauiour , for the redemption of man-kinde , none I thinke is so simple , as vvould imagine M. Garnet to applie to himself , though in this point also M. Attorney is to be taught out of true diuinitie , that diuerse places vttered litterallie of Christ in holie scripture , maie secondarily also by allusion be applied vnto men , and this vvithout all horror of blasphemie , or imputation of Atheisme , vvhich are M. Attorneyes passionate accusations in this place . As for example , vvhere the Prophet vvriteth of him : Et cum iniquis reputatus est : he vvas esteemed vvith the vvicked ; vvhich vvas meant immediatlie and principallie by the holie-ghost of Christ , and yet by allusion it maie be applied to anie of his seruants . And that other place ; De torrente in via bibit , propterea exaltauit caput : and infinite other throughout all the nevv and old testament , spoken literallie of Christ , and yet by allusion applied to good men , as the ancient Fathers doe testifie in their vvorkes , applying to the members oftentimes that vvhich belongeth principallie to the head : so as herein M. Attorneyes haires needed not to stand vpon end , nor trouble themselues or their maister ; neither vvas it nedefull that M. Attorney should praie for M Garnet to repent himself of this blasphemie ( vvhich vvas none at all ) before he dyed . God graunt Syr Edward Cooke be in state to make so cleere , and easy an accompt at his departure from this vvorld , as the other vvas , vvhich hardlie maie be hoped , considering their great difference of life & functions , except God vvorke a miracle , or that solifidian iustification doe enter for smoothing of all , vvhich maketh all men equall , and equallie saincts . 42. But to dravve to an end , one of your last triumphant speeches touching all Iesuits vvas , that they vvere Doctors of foure different doctrines ; the one of dissimulation ; the second of deposing Princes ; the third of disposing of Kingdomes ; the last of deterring Princes with feare of excommunications : and of all foure you discoursed vvith great resolution , and peremptorie determination , vvel assuring your self , that none in that place should haue meanes to ansvvere you , though there vvanted not manie , vvho out of their discretions , did note vvhere and hovv you might haue byn ansvvered vvith no small aduantage , as perhaps you may be hereafter more at large , vpon some other occasion . 43. Novv onlie I thought good to put you in mind , that these , and other your discourses , founded commonlie vpon diuisions , and little concerning the prisoner , or matter in hand , vvere noted and borne avvaie , and this among the rest , vvas obserued ; that you vvere more fertile in setting dovvne diuisions , then fruitfull aftervvard in prosecuting the same ; yet in the last parte of this four-fold partition , about terrifying Princes with excommunications , you flovving novv vvith full sea tovvardes the end of your accusations , men saie , that you insulted greatlie ouer Catholicke religion , & brought forth a booke of your ovvne compyling ( to vvit your Reportes ) pretending to shevv out of the same , that our English Kings in former ages , were nothing afrighted with the idle menaces of Papall excommunications ; that one was condemned of high treason for bringing in a Bull against a subiect without the Kings licence : that the King was neuer reputed subiect to any Pope in Ecclesiasticall matters , but that himself was absolute : how the Popes Legates were often times stayed at Calles , vntill the King had giuen them licence to come into England , vvith manie other such points , partlie true , partlie false , partlie impertinent to the matter , partlie prouing de facto , and not de iure , partlie misalleadged , partly miscōstred , but altogeather misapplyed to the disgrace of that religion , for vvhose seruice al your lavves in those times & ages vvere instituted , and honoured : & yet you protested in that vaunting vaine of yours ; that you were exceeding glad to see your moderne religion in this point , so agreable to the ancient lawes of the Realme , which lawes ( quoth you ) if they were exactly looked into , would restraine our Romish Catholickes for growing any further , as you hoped they would be . 44. But Sir , hovv little ground of truth or substance all this hath in it , & hovv contrary effectes the devv cōsideration of our English lavves may , & must needes vvorke in the mindes of al discreet men , tovvardes the setling of a stable iudgement and firme persuasion in fauour of Catholicke religion , in that the said lavves proceeded al from Catholicke Princes ( though alvvaies I except such as doe frame their iudgement to the current of the present time , & doe subordinate their vnderstanding to their vvealth and honours ) this ( I saie ) shal aftervvardes be so euidentlie declared in this Answere of ours throughout the vvhole booke , as no mā I suppose vvith any indifferēcy , or probability of reasō , shal be able to deny or cōtradict the same . 45. And in particular the Reader shall see refuted the seuerall members by you heere set dovvne , as namelie , hovv great and harty reuerence and respect our Catholicke Kings did euer beare vnto Ecclesiasticall Censures , not onlie of the Pope as supreme , but of their ovvne home-Bishopps also : and that no King in all that ranke for almost a thousand yeares , did euer hold himself absolute in Ecclesiasticall povver , vntill King Henry the eight ; and that it cannot be true , vvhich heere & elsvvhere you so much bragg of , & bring forth vpon euery occasion ( as the archer that had but one arrovv in his quiuer that vvould fly ) hovv that in the raigne of King Edward the first , it was treason by the common-law for a subiect to bring in and publish a Bull from Rome against a subiect , without the Kings licence ; vvhich is your first obiection in that Kings life , and ansvvered by me after in the eleuenth Chapter of this booke . 46. And as for the obiection of the Popes Legats or Nuntij detained somtimes by the Kings order at Calles , from entering the Realme , vntill some difference betvvene Popes and Kings vvere accorded , though it be so vveake a thing as deserueth no ansvvere , yet haue I ansvvered the same vpon diuers occasions , and shevved amongst other , that by this argument , if it vvere good , King Philip and Queene Mary might be said not to haue acknovvledged the Pope his spirituall authoritie , for that they deteined in Calles the messenger of Paulus Quartus , vvhen he brought the Cardinalls hat , and Legacy of England for Friar Peto in preiudice of Cardinall Poole , vvhich the said Princes vvould not suffer to be put in execution , vntill they had better informed the said Pope , vpon vvhich information & their intercession the controuersie ceased . 47. Much other matter I doe vvillinglie pretermit ( M. Attorney ) vvhich you vttered that daie in contempt , & derogation of that religion , vvherby all your progenitors , yea all the Peeres and Princes of our Realme in precedent ages thought themselues both happie and honourable : and if they had imagined that in future times an Attorney vvould haue stept vp to raile , and reuile that religion , calling it rotten and contemptible , & them all blind and deceaued people ; vvhat an opinion ( thinke you ) vvould they haue fore-stallen of you ? and hovv base and odious a conceit vvould they haue preconceaued against you ? especiallie if they had seene you ( as others did that stood neere ) so caried avvaie vvith hereticall humour , as to vvander , and range , and runne from your matter in your pleading , to seeke occasion of insolent tauntes against them in such sort , as your vvhole subiect by your ovvne confession , being of treason , the most of your inuectiue speach vvas against their religion . 48. For vvhich cause I thought my self bound to saie somevvhat in this behalfe , principallie to that vvhich is proper to the argument of your late booke of Reportes , heere by me ansvvered . For as for the other parte concerning treason , and the vvhole Act of the late arraignement about the same , I haue of purpose forborne to speake , as vvell for that it is a matter not appertayning to my facultie ; as also in regarde of the devv respect I beare both vnto the lavves , and customes of my countrie , my Princes person , and the honour of that great assemblie : in all vvhich I haue nothing to complaine of ( all hauing passed by order ) but onlie of your extrauagant excursions , to confoūd religion and treason togeather : nay to make religion the fountaine of treason , and therby to inuolue vvithin the hatred of treason , all those that by conscience are tyed to that religion , be they neuer so innocent ; than vvhich there can be no greater iniquitie imagined . 49. VVith M. Garnets particular cause I vvill not meddle in this place , he is gone to his last Iudge , before vvhome also you , and others that haue had parte in the handling therof , must finallie appeare , to see confirmed or reuersed vvhatsoeuer hath passed in that affaire . As for that vvhich you & others so often vrged against him , to confesse , that he vvas lavvfullie condemned by the tēporal lavv of the land , importeth little for the impayring of his innocencie before almighty God. You knovv vvho said in a farre vveightier cause , concerning the tryal of our Sauiour himself : VVe haue a law , and according to this law , he ought to dy , for that he hath made himselfe the sonne of God ; and their error vvas not so much in the obiect , as in the subiect : for as for the lavv it self , vve fynd it in Leuiticus that blasphemie ( vvhereof the highest degree vvas for a man to make himself God ) vvas punishable by death ; but the subiect , to vvit , the person of our Sauiour vvas mistaken , they esteeming him to be onlie man , vvhereas they ought to haue knovvne , that he vvas God and man , as vvell in respect of the predictions of al the Prophets , foretelling that Christ should be the sonne of God ; as also of his stupendious actions , that proued him to be trulie Christ : so as though the lavv alleadged by the Ievves against blasphemie & blasphemers , vvere true and in force of it self ; yet held it not in the person of Christ , but vvas in the highest degree iniurious , as all Christian-men must confesse . 50. Let vs see then hovv from this case of the maister , some light may be dravvne to that of his scholler and seruant . You , M. Attorney , pleaded against him , as the Ievves Attorneyes did against our Sauiour and said ; Nos legem habemus &c. vve haue a lavv , that vvhosoeuer reuealeth not treason by such a space , shall be accessarie of treason , and dy as a traytor : nor do vve deny the lavv , or complaine thereof ; but yet if this case vvere pleaded in a forrayne Catholicke countrie , vvhere the prisoner also shoulde haue his Attorney allovved him , he vvould saie on the other side : Nos legem habemus superiorem , Ecclesiasticam , Diuino iure intentam , qua sacerdos neque mori , neque puniri debet , ob proditionem sub confessionis figillo cognitam , & non reuelatam : vve haue a contrarie lavv , to vvit , an Ecclesiasticall and spirituall lavv , higher then your temporall , and a lavv founded on the lavv of God , vvhereby it is ordeyned , that a Priest shal neither dy , nor be punished , nor be accompted traytor , for treason discouered vnto him vnder the seale of confession , and not by him reuealed ; nay he shal be punished , & that most grieuouslie , if he doe for anie cause reueale the same . 51. And this plea of the prisoners Attorney ( vvhich by Catholicke doctrine and schooles is easilie proued in all the partes or members heere set dovvne ) vvould presentlie haue bene admitted in all Catholicke Countries and Courtes , and in ours also , vvhiles our Kings and people vvere of that religion , and your temporall lavv vvould haue byn put to silence . Oh , you vvill saie , but novv it is othervvise , and vve care not for your Ecclesiasticall lavv . VVherevnto I ansvvere : Veritas autem Domini manet in aeternum . If this lavv be foūded in Gods truth & vvas left vnto his Church by Christ himself the fountaine of al truth , for the honour and defence of his Sacrament of Confessiō , as al ancient diuinitie doth affirme ; then must it for euer endure immutable : and novv and then , heere and there , this countrie and that countrie , this and that alteration of religion , or Princes temporall lavves , must not alter the case or substance of truth , either in Gods sight , or vvise mens eyes ; and so M. Garnets case , dying for this truth in England novv , is no vvorse , then if he had dyed a thousand yeares gone for the same , either in England or any other Cath. countrey , that is to say , he dying only for the bare cōcealing of that , vvhich by Gods , and the Churches Ecclesiastical lavvs he could not disclose , & giuing no cōsent or cooperation to the treasō it self , should haue byn accōpted rather a martyr then a traytor , & no lesse novv . 52. VVhich being so , cōsider I besech you M. Attorney , vvhat a different reckoning there is like to be betvveene you tvvo , at your next meeting in iudgement : you knovv somvvhat by experience hovv dreadful a thing the forme of publicke iudgement is , but not so much as some others , for that hitherto it hath byn stil your lot to be actor & not reus , predominant both in vvordes & povver , and consequently terrible & nothing terrifyed : but vvhen the time and case shal come , vvherof the holie-ghost foretelleth vs : Stabunt iusti in magna constantia , aduersus eos qui se angustiauerunt . Iust men that vvere ouerborne in this vvorld shal stand vp boldly vvith great constancy , against those that ouerbare them : and vvhen the saying of our Sauiour shal be fulfilled : that euery man shal receaue , & be treated according to the measure wherby he hath measured to others ; then vvil be the day of woe : neither doe I say this , M Attorney , to condemne your office , I knovv that in all tymes , vnder all Princes your office of Fiscal-Aduocate or Attorney hath byn in vse for the Princes seruice and good also of the Common-vvealth if it be vvell and moderatelie vsed ; but yet I cannot but friendlie put you in mind of that , vvhich holie S. Gregory doth admonish , vvhere he handleth the cause and reasons vvhy S. Peter , S. Andrew , S. Iames , and S. Iohn retourned to their art of fishing , after the Resurrection of our Sauiour , but not S. Matthew to his Custom-hovvse ; to vvit , that certaine artes and occupations there are more dangerous farre , the one then the other , as more subiect and incident to greater sinnes . 53. In vvhich kinde trulie , Sir , if any office in the vvorld be daungerous in deed , yours may be accompted in the highest degree , that hath euery day almost his finger in bloud , or in particular mens afflictions , and ouerthrovves . And albeit the act of iustice be laudable & necessarie ; yet the Actor oftentimes runneth no small daunger of his soule through the passions of anger , hatred , reuēge , vain-glorie , couetuousnes , appetite of honour , and the like affections of mynd , vvhich peruert iustice , and vvherof most strait accompt must aftervvard be rendred for the same . 54. And if in any part of the vvorld this Fiscall office and authority be full of perill , much more in England , vvhere his povver is much more absolute then in any other countrey vvhatsoeuer . For that in other Realmes the defendant for his life , hath other Attorneyes , and learned counsell allovved him , as hath bene said ; but in England all is committed in a certayne sort to the Kings Attorney onlie , vvhere the matter any vvay concerneth the Princes interest : and albeit he be svvorne to be equall , and indifferent betvvene the Prince and his subiect , especiallie in matters of life and death ; yet doe all men see , hovv that is obserued , the Attorney thinking it his greatest honour to ouerthrovv any man that commeth in his vvay by all manner of opprobrious proceeding , by scoffs , iestes , exprobrations , vrging of odious circumstances , tales , inuentions , cōparisons , rhetoricall exaggerations , & the like ; vvhich seemed in old time so vnciuill , and inhumane against men in misery , that diuers States and Cōmon-vvealthes , though Pagan and Gentile , did forbid them to be vsed by the Actor , notvvithstanding the lavv allovved them a defender and tvvice as much time for the defence , as the Actor had for his accusation . 55. All vvhich points of ayd and comfort doe faile in our English tryall of life and death , and one more besides of singular importance , vvhich is , that the Iury commonlie is of vnlearned men , and therby easilie , either deceaued by crafty and coloured arguments of the accuser ( not hauing time to examine , or iudgement to discerne them ) or led by false affectiōs , or terrifyed by force of authoritie , vvhich in graue learned Iudges vvere not so much to be feared . And by this may M. Attorney acknovvledg vvith me some part of the danger of his office , vvho by one onlie vvorde , looke , signe , or action , may oftentimes preiudice the bloud of the prisoners , that stande at the barre , & much more by so many exaggerations , reproaches , and insolencies vsed against them . VVho remembreth not that late hateful exprobration to the vnfortunate Earle , to vvhome it vvas obiected at the barre : that he thought to be the first King Robert , and novv he vvas like to be the last Earle of that name and hovvse . And the other yet more bitter vnto his Secretary Cuff , that you vvould giue him at length such a cuff , as should make his head to reele against the gallovves : these things to men in misery , are great encreasmētes no doubt of their calamityes , and so much the more , by hovv much they tasted of insolency , neuer allovved of by vvise and moderate men , tovvardes those that be in affliction or distresse . And thus vvill I end this my first speach vvith you , referring my self for the rest to that vvhich ensueth throughout this vvhole Answere . Cath. Deuine . A TABLE Of the particular Contentes , Chapters , and Paragraphes of this ensuing Treatise . THe Preface to the Reader , conteining the weight and importance of this our Controuersy ; wherby may be resolued whatsoeuer is in question betwene men of different Religions at this day in England . The Answere to the Preface of Syr Edward Cooke the Kings Attorney Generall ; about Errour , Ignorance , and Truth , and way to try the same . Chap. I. pag. 1. The state of the Question in generall , concerning Spirituall and Temporall Power and Iurisdiction : their origen , and subordination one to the other . And how they stand togeather in a Christian Common-wealth . Chap. II. pag. 23. The second part of this Chapter , about the subordination of these two Powers , the one to the other ; & different greatnesse of them both . § . 1. pag. 32. The third Part of this Chapter , shewing how these two Powers and Iurisdictions may stand well togeather in agreement , peace and vnion . § . 2. pag. 40. The particular state of the controuersy with M. Attorney concerning the late Queenes Ecclesiasticall Power by the auncient lawes of England ; deduced out of the case of one Robert Caudery Clerke . Chap. III. pag. 47. The second part of this Chapter , with a more cleere explication of the Question . § . 1. pag. 57. VVheras in the case proposed , there may be two kinds of Proofes , the one De Iure , the other De Facto ; M. Attorney is shewed to haue failed in them both : And that we doe euidently demonstrate in the one , and in the other . And first in that De Iure . Chap. IIII. pag. 63. The second Part of this Chapter , wherin is shewed , that Queene Elizabeth in regard of her sex , could not haue supreame Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction . § . 1. pag. 74. Of the second sort of Proofes named De Facto , wherto M. Attorney betaketh himselfe , alleadging certaine instances therin : And first out of the Kinges before the Conquest . Chap. V. pag. 92. How the Attorney not being able to proue his affirmatiue Proposition , of English Kinges Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall before the Conquest : we doe ex abundanti prooue the negatiue by ten seuerall sortes of most euident demonstrations , that there was no such thinge in that tyme , but the quite contrary . Chap. VI. pag. 103. The first Demonstration of the lawes made by ancient Kinges before the Conquest . § 1. pag. 105. The second Demonstration : That the first Ecclesiasticall lawes in our Countrey came not from Kings , but from Prelates . § . 2. pag. 108. The thid Demonstration : That all Ecclesiasticall weighty matters were referred by our Kings and people to the Sea of Rome . § . 3. pag. 113. The fourh Demonstration : That Confirmations , Priuiledges , Franquizes of Churches , Monasteries , Hospitalles , &c. were graunted by the Pope . § . 4. pag. 124. The fifth Demonstration : That Appeales and Complaints were made to the forsaid Sea of Rome , about Cōtrouersies that fel out in Englād . § . 5. pag. 131. The six Demonstration : Of the Kinges and Archbishops that liued togeather in our Countrey before the Conquest , and what lawes they were like to make . § . 6. pag. 139. The seauenth demonstration : Of the concourse of our Kinges of England with other Princes , and Catholike people abroad . § . 7. pag● 141. The eight demonstration : Of the making tributary to the Sea of Rome , the Kingdome of England . § . 8. pag. 142. The nynth demonstration : Of the going of diuers Kinges and Princes of England to Rome for deuotion to that Sea. § . 9. pag. 147. The tenth demonstration : Of the assertions and asseuerations of diuers Kinges of England for preheminence of spirituall Power . VVith a Conclusion vpon the former demonstrations . § . 10. pag. 151. Of the Kinges after the Conquest vnto our times . And first of the Conquerour himselfe , whether he tooke spirituall Iurisdiction vpon him , or no , by vertue of his Crowne and temporall authority . Chap. VII . pag. 155. Reasons that shew William the Conquerour , to haue acknowledged euer the authority of the Sea Apostolicke . § . 1. pag. 160. Of King William the Conquerour his lawes in fauour of the Church and Church-men . § . 2. pag. 165. The first Instance of M. Attorney taken out of the raigne of K. William the Conquerour , refuted . § . 3. pag. 169. Of King William Rufus , and Henry the first , that were the Conquerours sonnes ; and of K. Stephen his nephew : And how they agreed with the said Conquerour in our Question of Spiritual Iurisdiction acknowledged by them to be in others , and not in themselues . Chap. VIII . pag. 176. Of King Henry the first , who was the third King after the Conquest . § . 1. pag. 180. Of the raigne of King Stephen , the fourth King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 189. Of the Raigne of K. Henry the second great Grand-child to the Conquerour , & the fifth King after the Conquest , with his two sonnes K. Richard and K. Iohn ; and their comformityes in this Controuersy . Chap. IX . pag. 196. Of the Raigne of K. Richard the first , the sixt King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 208. Of the Raigne of K. Iohn , who was the seauenth King after the Conquest . § . 3. pag. 222. Of King Henry the third , that was the eight King after the Conquest ; and the first that left Statutes wrytten . And what M. Attorney alleadgeth out of him for his purpose . Chap. X. pag. 232. Two Instances alleadged out of the raigne of K. Henry the third by M. Attorney and of what weight they be . § . 1. pag. 245. Of the liues and raignes of K. Edward the first and second , Father and Sonne . And what Arguments M. Attorney draweth from them , towards the prouing of his purpose . Chap. XI . pag. 256. Of K. Edward the first , who was the nynth King after the Conquest . § . 1. pag. 257. Of King Edward the second , which was the tenth King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 278. Of King Edward the third , and K. Richard the second his nephew and successour : And vvhat Instances or Arguments M. Attorney dravveth from their tvvo raignes , vvhich continued betvveene them for seauenty yeares . Chap. XII . pag. 285. M. Attorneyes obiections out of the raigne of K. Edward the third aforesaid . § . 1. pag. 292. Of the raigne of K. Richard the second , the tvveluth King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 308. Of the three King Henryes of the house of Lancaster , the fourth , fifth and sixth , vvho raigned for the space of threescore yeares . And vvhat is obserued out of their raignes concerning our Controuersy vvith M. Attorney . Chap. XIII . pag. 312. Instances alleadged by M. Attorney , out of the raigne of K. Henry the fourth , vvho vvas the thirteenth King after the Conquest . § . 1. pag. 315. Out of the raigne of K. Henry the fifth , that vvas the fourteenth King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 322. Out of the Raigne of K. Henry the sixt the fifteenth King after the Conquest . § . ● . pag. 326. Of the Raigne of f●ure ensuing Kinges , to vvit Edward the fourth , Edward the fifth , Richard the third , and Henry the seauenth : And hovv confo●me they vvere vnto their Ancestors in this point of Controuersy vve haue in hand . Chap. XIIII . pag. 328. I●st●nces out of the Raigne of K. Edward the fourth , the sixteenth King after the Conquest . § . 1. pag. 331. Out of the R●igne of K. Henry the seauenth , vvho vvas the nynteenth King after the Conquest . § . 2. pag. 337. Of the Raigne of K. Henry the eight , and of his three Children , King Edward Que●ne Mary and Queene Elizabeth : And hovv the first innouati●n thout Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction vvas made , and continued in their daies . Ch●p . XV. pag. 341. The ansvvere to certayne Instances of M. Attorney out of the Raigne of K. Henry the eight § . 2. pag. 351. Of King Edward the six , the one and tvventith King after the Conquest . § . 3. pag. 357. Of the Raigne of Queene Mary , the tvvo and tvventith Princesse after the Conquest . § . 4. pag. 359. Of the Raigne of Queene Elizabeth , vvho vvas the three and tvventith Princesse after the Conquest , and last of K. Henryes race . § . 5. pag. 361. Certaine Expostulations vvith M. Attorney , about euill preceeding , & iniuryes offered to diuers sortes of men in this his booke of Reportes , especially to ●ards the end therof : Togeather with the Conclusion of the whole worke . Chap. XVI . pag. 368. The first expostulation , in the behalfe of Recusant-Catholickes of England , grieu●●sly iniured by M. Attorney . § . 1. pag. 369. The second Expostulation , in the behalfe of all English Catholickes in generall . § . 2. pag. 376. The third Expostulation , in the name of all moderate and peace-louing subiects whatso●uer . § . 3. pag. 384. An Index or Table of the particular matters conteyned in the vvhole worke . THE PREFACE TO THE READER . Concerning the weight , and importance of this our Controuersie ; wherby may be resolued whatsoeuer is in question between men of different Religions at this day in England . ALBEIT the moment , and vtility of that we haue in hand ( discreet Reader ) will best be seene by perusall of the Treatise it self , and by thy iudicious consideration therof : yet for thy better encouragement to this labour , and to stirr thee vp to more attention herin ; I haue thought good , to touch some points in generall , at this first entrance , remitting the larger , and more particular declaration therof , vnto that which is to ensue throughout the whole discussion of the Controuersie . 2. First then , to pretermit the whole view of our English Christian antiquities , which heer by fit , and necessarie occasion is searched & laid open , togeather with the liues , and laws , gouerment , and Religion of all our Christian Kings , both before and after the Conquest ; This one point seemeth to me to be of most moment for the present ; that wheras vnder the raigne of Queen Elizabeth ( about whome principallie is our question ) three sortes of Religion did stand vp , & striue togeather ( and doe vnto this day ) the Protestant , the Puritane , ●nd the Catholicke : their whole contention seemeth to mee to ly within the limits of this Controuersie , moued by M. Attorney about Q. Elizabeths spirituall iurisdiction , and that out of the same , the whole may easily be determined , as presentlie you shall see . 3. For wheras there are two principall partes of any Religion whatsoeuer ; the one , doctrine or precepts , for instruction ; the other , power and authoritie , for direction , and gouerment ; albeit the first be the ground , and foundation wheron to buyld , and worke ; yet is the second that which giueth life , and motion to the former ; and must try and iudge the same : for that in euery religion or societie of men , professing one , and the self same faith , those that are the cheife mēbers therof , & presumed to ●aue principal power and spiritual iurisdiction therin , are they that must authorize , discerne and iustifie the doctrine therof to their followers . For as S. Augustine said in ●is daies to the Manichies that pressed him to beleeue certaine thinges out of the scripture in their sense : That he vvould not beleeue the ghospell it self to be the ghospel , except the authority of the Chuch did moue him thervnto : that is to say , the cheife gouernours of the Church , and such as had cheife spirituall authoritie therin from time to time : of whome Christ meant when he said : Dic Ecclesiae , denounce it to the Church ; and againe . If he heare not the Church , let him be to thee , as a heathen , or publican : so in like manner must we say in these daies , nor haue we any other reasonable answere , why we beleeue any one booke of the new , or old Testament to be scripture ( that is to saie to containe doctrine of the holie ghost , and not of man ) but for that the gouernours of our Church , which haue spirituall power among vs , doe tell vs so . 4. Yea , all Sectaries likewise , of what sorte or sect soeuer , are forced to follow the same rule ; for that whatsoeuer they admit to be scripture , they admit the same either vpon the credit of our Church , and gouernours therof , or of their owne , or of both ; but especially indeed of their owne , which is seen by their doubting or reiecting of any parcels of scripture , doubted of , or reiected by their owne leaders , though admitted by ours . As for example , the booke of vvisedome , of Toby , Iudith , Ecclesiasticus , the first and second of Machabees , and other parcels of the old Testament , reiected by Luther , and Lutherans ; as also the Epistle of S. Iames , the second and third of S. Peter , the Apocalips , and other peeces of the new testament , which our Church admitteth simply . But Caluin , and Caluinists , though expreslie they reiect them not with the Lutherans , as appeareth by our English Church , where they are left to stand in the Bible : yet is their admission so could , and conditionall , as it may rather seeme a curteous dimission , then any way a faithfull , or confident acceptation . 5. And the same may be said of any other particular point or points of doctrine of any Religion , or sect whatsoeuer ; the leaders , or gouernours that are presumed to haue cheife authoritie , must iudge and discerne , distinguish , expound , and determine , what is to be beleued or not ; what is to be held and taught , or reiected ; and finallie , what is to be done and practised ; what Sacraments , what Ceremonies , what Customes are to be vsed , hovv , where , and when ; And last of all this second part of power and authoritie , rule , order , gouerment , and iurisdiction is that , which giueth light , direction , and life to euerie religion . And for so much as there can be but one true , that can bring vs to saluation ; it followeth , that whersoeuer this true spirituall power , and iurisdiction is found , there is the onlie true religion also , which a man may securelie follow : yea , that vnder paine of eternall damnation , he is bound to follow , for that this authoritie will lead him to life euerlasting , Christ hauing giuen the keies of heauen thervnto , that is to say , full power to shut and open heauen by binding or loosing sinnes vpon earth ; and that in such sort ( saith S. Chrysostome and all other ancient Fathers with him ) that the Courte or Tribunall of heauen standeth expecting , vvhat is done vpon earth to confirme the same there : for so much , as euer since this admirable , vniuersall , and dreadfull authoritie was giuen ( say they ) by Christ vpon earth , vnto the Gouernours of his Church , nothing is done in that Court of heauen , but by presidence , and predetermination of that which is done , or sentenced in the Tribunall of the militant Church on earth ; that is to say , he that is here absolued , is absolued there , & he that is here condemned , is condemned there , without remission . VVherof also the said Fathers do inferre , that to find out this authoritie , and to follow the same , and the direction therof , is the only sure way to saluation . And that the erring herin , either wilfully or of ignorance , is the most certaine path to damnation ; for that by no other ordinary means ( since this Commission giuen , and authoritie instituted among Christians ) is any grace , fauour , pardon , light , direction , or other spirituall benefit to be receiued from God , but by way of this subordination of spirituall authoritie appointed in his Church . 6. VVherfore al hope of life depēding , as you see , of this soueraigne point so as whosoeuer erreth in this , erreth in al ; ech man wil easilie cōsider how much it importeth him to looke well thervnto , and to stand attentiue and vigilant in the discussion therof ; to see whence , and how , and by what means , and from what sourge and fountaine , this authoritie and spirituall Iurisdiction is deriued : In which point the three professors of different religions before mentioned , doe principally differ , and distinguish themselues . The Protestāt deducing this spiritual power from the temporall Prince ( or rather Princesse vnder Q. Elizabeth . ) The * Puritane from the people . The Catholicke from the succession of Bishops from Christs time downe wards , and especially from the highest , which they hold to be S. Peter , and his successours . And which part soeuer of these three hitteth right , goeth happely & securelie , & the other two doe run to euerlasting perditiō . 7. The Protestant for his ground , hath those sayings of scripture : That all orderly authoritie is from God. That vve must giue to Cesar , that vvhich is Cesars : That Princes are to be honoured , and obeyed for God ; and Kings , as highest in dignitie , and that he vvhich resisteth lavvfull authoritie , resisteth Gods ordination : and therby incurreth damnation &c. All which the other two parties granting , doe affirme to haue byn vnderstood of temporall authoritie only , for gouerning the Commonwealth ; and not of spirituall for gouerning of soules , which they proue : for that all Kings , and Princes were then infidels , and especially the Roman Emperours of whom this was principally meant , who by these places of scriptures , cannot be said to haue receiued Commission , to gouerne the Christian Church , which was in their times , and vnder their dominions ; but onlie in temporall matters , and Ciuill affaires . And that the spirituall power and iurisdiction wherof we talke , was at that time in another sorte of men , to wit in the Apostles and their successours , which were Bishops , according to the testimonie of S. Paul in the Acts of the Apostles , speaking vnto them , and saying : The holie Ghost hath placed you Bishops to gouerne his Church vvhich he hath purchased vvith his ovvne bloud . 8. The Puritanes , or rigid Caluinists haue for their ground , certaine elections made by the people , and recorded , as well in the Acts of the Apostles , as in other histories of the Primitiue Church : as for example when they chose two in the place of Iudas , to wit , Ioseph , and Matthias , to bee determined by lot which of them should be . And when afterward they chose S. Stephen , & six others to supply the place of Deacons , & many times afterward in the primitiue Church we read , that the people did choose or name their Bishops . But to this , the other two parties doe answere , that in the first two examples , out of the Acts of the Apostles , it is euident by the Text , that those elections , or nominations were permitted to the people , by the Apostles themselues , for their comforte and encouragement ; but that the parties so chosen , had , & receiued their authority & spiritual iurisdiction from the Apostles themselues . And the like is answered for the times ensuing , wherin the Bishops did oftentimes permit the said electios to the people , for their greater cōtentment , & consolation in those daies of persecutiō , to choose & nominate for their Bishop & Pastor the man whom they best liked , who afterward was inuested & cōsecrated by the said Bishops notwithstāding : & tooke his iurisdiction , and spirituall power from them , to whom properly that power and authoritie belonged , to ordaine , both Bishops , and Priests , as we see the Apostles themselues did euerie where , and gaue the like authoritie to others ordained by them . As we read , that S. Paul hauing made Titus Bishop of Creta , gaue him order also to ordaine : vt cōstituas per ciuitates presbyteros , sicut & ego disposui tibi . That thou ordaine Priests for Citties , as I haue appointed thee . 9. The Catholickes for their groūd haue this : That Bishops only , & Priests were made spirituall gouernous of Christs Church by Christ himself , and so continued vader Infidel Emperours for three hundered yeares togeather , vntill the time of Constantine the great , that was first conuerted , as afterward more largely will be shewed in due place ; and that this authoritie is to continue in lawfull succession of Bishops , by ordination , and imposition of hands , vntill the worlds end . And that neither temporall Prince can haue this , except he be also Priest , and receiued it by the same ordinary way of ordination and succession ( whereof Q. Elizabeth was not capable ) and much lesse the common people , except only by permission , to elect and nominate , as hath byn said : wherof ensueth that if they haue not this spirituall authority in themselues ; much lesse can they giue it to others . And thus according to the Catholickes iudgment , doe faile the grounds , both of the Protestant , and Puritan in this great affaire : and failing in this , doe faile in all the rest ; for that of this , dependeth all , as before hath byn said . 10. For if in their Religions , there be no true authoritie spirituall , or iurisdiction , deriued by ordinarie means , and succession from Christ ; then are they awry in all , nor haue they any true authority , to preach , administer Sacraments , absolue , or bind from sinnes , iudge of doctrine , determine or decree of any spirituall action whatsoeuer ; nor are they within the compasse of Christs Church , or state of saluation , as by necessarie consequence doth ensue ; and the like of the Catholickes , if they in this point be amisse 11. And herby we may see the importance now of this controuersie , between M. Attorney and me , as also their shallow vnderstāding ( if they speake as they thinke ) or rather malicious folly ( if they doe not ) who affirme euery where in their bookes against Catholickes , that Protestants and Puritanes are but onlie iarring-brethren , and reconcilable between themselues , and that their differences are not in principall points of Religion , but in certaine lesser things , and ceremonies . For that this being indeed , not onlie so substantiall a point of doctrine , as before you haue heard ; but containing also the whole second part of Religion before mentioned ( to wit , all that belongeth to power , authoritie , gouernement and iurisdiction ) by which Religion hath her life , vertue , force , and efficacy : It is easily seen , how vaine , and false , or rather ridiculous and pernicious the other assertion is , and if we well enter into the examination of particulars , we shall easilie see the same . 12. For suppose ( for examples sake ) that the Protestants ground be true , that all spirituall iurisdiction , force , and efficacie therof came vnto their Church in Queene Elizabeths time , by her , and from her , out of the Right of her Crowne ; & that the Puritanes ground be false , who pretend the same from the people , I meane from their owne Congregations , Classes , & Presbyteries ( for no other gaue it them ) what followeth of all this ? No doubt , it must needs follow , by manifest consequence of truth , that the Puritanes haue no authoritie , or spirituall iurisdiction in the Church of God at all , nor are lawfull Pastors , but vsurpers , and intruders ; and that they entred not by the doore , as Christ saith , but by other means : that is to saie , not by the ordinarie doore of lawfull vocation , ordination , and succession of Priesthood . Of which doore the Apostle S. Paul made such high accompt , as hauing set downe that vninersal proposition to the Hebrews : Nec quisquam sumit sibi honorem , sed qui vocatur a Deo , tanquam Aâron . That no man taketh vnto him the honour of being a Bishop , or Priest , but he that is called by God therevnto , as Aâron was in the old law . After this ( I saie ) he passeth on to proue , that Christ himself the sonne of God , tooke not this honour of high Priesthood vpon him , but by the publike testimonie of his said Fathers vocation , set downe by the Prophet Dauid , manie hundred years before he was borne . Tu es sacerdos in aeternum secūdum ordinem Melchisedech . Thou art a Priest for euer , after the order of Melchisedech , and not of Aâron . And according to this high order of Melchisedech , that was both King and Priest , and whose sacrifice was not of beasts and birds , as those of Aâron , but of bread , and wyne onlie , to prefigurate the most pure , and holie sacrifice , that Christian Priests were to offer afterward to the worldes end , of the body and bloud of Christ , in like formes of bread and wyne , as all ancient * Fathers doe expound it : Of this order ( I say ) Christ being high Priest , made all his Apostles Priests , and they others after them , and they others againe , by the ordinarie way of ordination , imposition of hands , and succession , which hath endured from their time to ours , and shall from ours , vntill the day of iudgement . 13. And this ordinarie doore ( so called by Christ our Sauiour ) of entring into spirituall authoritie , and iurisdiction ouer his flocke , is of such high esteeme and importance , that as the first generall doore , wherby a man must enter to be a sheep in the said flocke , to wit Baptisme , is a Sacrament , not reiterable , and so absolutelie necessarie , as no man can enter by any other way : so likwise this other particuler doore of entring into Prelacie , or Pastor-shipp ouer Christs flocke , was ordayned a Sacrament by our Sauiour , no lesse necessarie for distinguishing theeues , robbers , and intruders , from true and lawfull Pastors ( to vse our Sauiours similitude ) then the other of Baptisme , to distinguish sheep from wolues , and Christs flocke , from Infidells and others of the Synagoge of Satan . 14. And now in all this which we haue spoken by occasion of the Puritanes pretence , to enter into spirituall gouerment ouer Christs flocke , by voice and choise of their owne people , we doe not much differ from their Maister and Doctor Iohn Caluin , who confesseth that this doore or entrance to the Clergie by lawfull vocation and ordination , is so necessarie , as if it be not obserued , all would grow to confusion , and no man could know , who hath spirituall iurisdiction ouer soules , and who hath not . And further he confesseth that albeit be appoint but two generall Sacraments for all sortes of people , Baptisme ( to witt ) and the Lords supper : yet he graunteth this Ordination of Church-ministers , to be a true Sacrament also , and to haue promise of grace annexed vnto it , as other Sacraments haue , but that it strecheth not so far , as the other two doe ; but is particular for ministers and Clergie-men onlie . 15. But then if we presse him , how he , and his came in by this doore ; he and they haue no other shift , but to say , that their first maisters and teachers entred in by this ordinarie vocation and ordination of our Bishops ( for others there were none at that time to call ; or ordayne them ) from whom afterward they disioyned themselues in doctrine , to ioyne with the Apostles . And this is the leap they make from our age to the Apostles time . 16. But suppose they could say this of their first teachers , that they had their ordination , and consequentlie also their vocation and spirituall iurisdiction from our Bishops ; yet afterward when they fell to different doctrine , and for that cause were cut of by excommunication from them , and especiallie now when the said first teachers are dead and gone ; they can haue no other assurance of their vocation of ministerie , then from the people of their owne sect , in their Presbyteries , as before hath byn said : which how much it is , or whether it may be any thing at all , shall * afterward be discussed . 17. Now it shall be sufficient onlie , for the argument of this Preface , concerning the weight , and importance of this Controuersie we haue with M. Attorney about spirituall iurisdiction , that we consider , and beare in mind the different origen , from which ech partie of the foresaid three professors of Religion , doe pretend to deriue their right and interest to the said spirituall iurisdiction , which they exercise . And what side soeuer erreth therin , erreth also in the maine marke of their saluation , and doth draw both themselues , and their followers to euerlasting perdition . And furthermore that the difference & contrariety in this point , is much more between Puritanes and Protestants , then between them both and Catholickes : For that they both doe graunt and cannot denie , but that the deduction of spirituall iurisdiction in our Catholike Prelates , hath come downe line-allie , and successiuelie by ordination , and imposition of ●ands , the one of the other , from the Apostles time , though declined ( as they saie ) in doctrine . But we , on the contrary side , doe inferre the suretie of our doctrine , by the certaintie of this succession of Priestlie power , and spirituall iurisdiction . For that whersoeuer this is trulie to be found , which cannot be but in the true Church ; there also hath Christ assured vs , that by his omnipotent power and presence , the puritie , and certaintie of doctrine shall euer in like manner be infallibly conserued . 18. But to the Protestant , the Puritane doth not yeeld thus much by manie degrees , and much lesse the Protestant to the Puritane . For they doe not graunt the one , to the other , that they haue true ordination of Priests and ministers among them , as to vs they doe : in s●gne wherof , if anie Priest of ours doe fall to their side● they giue him no new orders , but thinke him sufficientlie ordayned by vs , to minister in their Church , which the Protestant doth not admit in Puritane ministers , but that they must be ordered againe by their Bishops , as hauing no Orders before ; nor yet the Puritanes with the Protestant-ministers when they turne vnto them , but doe appoint , that he renounce his former Orders in their Congregation , or Presbyterie ; and by new imposition of hands of the said Presbiterie he be ordayned a new minister in that profession : so as by opinion and estimation of the Protestant-religion , the Puritane-ministers are meere laie-men , taking vpon them spirituall iurisdiction ouer soules without any lawfull authoritie , or commission at al ; and consequentlie haue no power to preach or teach , or administer Sacraments , and much lesse haue they that high , and excellent iudiciall authoritie to binde , or loose sinnes . And that which followeth also of this , that they haue no Sacraments at all , no Clergie , no ministerie , no sacred or diuine thinge ; but are onlie a lay companie of men and women , ioyned togeather in a certaine worldlie secular society , as Fish-mongers , Iron-mongers , Drapes , and other like companies in London . And the same opinion haue they of the Protestants , and of their Church . 19. And by this you may see , how farre they differ in substance of religion ( though somtimes for fashion-sake they call themselues Brethren ) more indeed then both of them from vs , as before hath byn said ; which proceedeth from this mayne ground & Principle , to wit , from whence ech part draweth their Ecclesiastical Power , & Spiritual Iurisdictiō ouer soules : for that this being once found out , all the rest is easie and cleere , for so much as this true spirituall authoritie , can be but in one partie , and in one Church onlie , which is the true : and wheresoeuer it is found , there is assurance also of all truth , Christ hauing promised vs , that this Church , and the true Pastors thereof shall not deceiue vs , nor be deceiued . And therefore that we may boldlie , and confidenlie heare their voice , and doe that which they bid vs , though otherwise in life , and manners , they should be as bad as Scribes and Pharises . 20. And on the other side where this true authoritie , and lawfull iurisdiction is not , there we must not beleeue , though they speake neuer so faire , for that we are fore-told and fore-taught , that they are but wolues in sheeps apparrel , false prophets to deceiue , theeues and murderers to kill and destroie , & other such fore-warnings left vnto vs by Christ and his Apostles . All which ought to make vs vigilant , attent , diligent , & curious to vnderstand really the truth about Spirituall Iurisdiction , which in the ensuing Treatise is handled , so far forth , as M. Attorney hath giuen occasion , though nothing so largely , as the thing it selfe might be discussed ; but yet sufficientlie for euerie discreet man to see the grounds , and with that modestie also ( I hope ) as may iustlie offend no man. And so I shall now passe on , to ioyne with M. Attorney more neerly in the maine battaile , if first by the way ( as it were of skirmish ) we shall answere somewhat in like manner to his Preface , wherin diuers points are not vnworthy of consideration . THE ANSWERE TO THE PREFACE of Syr Edward Cooke , THE KINGES ATTORNEY , About Error , Ignorance , and Truth : and vvay to try the same . CHAP. I. BEfore I come to discusse the Preface it self , which I purpose to sett downe wholy as it lyeth in the Author , it shall not be amisse perhaps ( Gentle Reader ) to speake a word or two , concerning the Title , whose inscription is . Reports of diuers Resolutions ; and Iudgements , giuen vpon great deliberation in matters of great Importance and Consequence , by the Reuerend Iudges , & Sages of the law : togeather with the Reasons & Causes ●f their Resolutions , and Iudgments published . &c. By which words of ●reat Deliberation , great Importance , and Consequence , Reuerend Sages , & the like , M. Attorney like a studious Rhetorician procureth to purchase credit , and estimation to this his worke of Reports . Al●eit I be confident to the contrary , that vpon the ensuing search , ●hese Reports directed by hym to the impugning of Catholike re●●gion ( being only bare and naked Reports indeed without profe or reason alleaged at all ) will neither proue so graue Resolutions & ●udgemēts , nor to haue byn giuen alwayes vpō so great deliberation , ●or of so great importance , & Consequence as he pretendeth ; and that when the reasons , and causes therof shall bee examined , they ●ill rather ouerthrow , than establish his principal conclusion ; wherin I remitt my self to the euent . ● . There followeth the same title to knitt vp the page , this plea●●ng sentence of Cicero in his Tusculane questions . Quid enim lae●ro , nisi vt veritas in omni quaestione explicetur , verum dicentibus facilè ce●●m ? What doe I endeuour , but that the truth should be laied open in euery question , with resolution to yeld to them that shall speake the truth . This sentence ( I say ) giueth mee great comforte , yf M. Attorney will doe as he insinuateth , and follow the indifferencie of his Author alleaged , who in the matters he handled ( which were of philosophye ) is knowne to haue byn so equall , as he was not well resolued , what part to take . Yet doe I not exact , so much equality in this our controuersie of diuinitie ( presuming my aduersary to be preoccupated with the preiudice of one parte ) but shall rest well satisfied with his desire , to haue the truth examined in euery point ; and much more with his readines , to yeeld vnto her , whersoeuer she shall be founde . 3. And with this I shall passe to his Preface notinge only one point , or two more , by the way , wherof I shall haue occasion to speake againe afterward . The first is , that wheras this booke of Reports is set forth with two distinct Columnes in euery page , the one in Latin , the other in English , the Title or superscription of the one runneth thus . De iure Regis Ecclesiastico . The other hath this interpretation , Of the Kings Ecclesiasticall law . As though the word Ius ( which signifieth Right ) were alwayes well translated by the word Law. Wherof afterward he seeketh to make his aduantage . But the error or fraude is euident , for that the word Ius , hath a much larger signification , then Lex , which may be proued , as well out of auncient Lawyers , as Deuines . For that a Paulus Iurisconsultu● doth affirme the word , Ius , to be extended , ad omne quod quouis modo bonum & aequum est ; to whatsoeuer is any waye good or right . And then , in another signification the same b Paulus doth say that it signifieth , Sententiam iudicis , The sentence of the Iudge . And in another signification c Vlpian , and Celsus two auncient Lawyers take it for the science , & skill of law . And d Aristotle in his Ethicks , pro omni eo quod est legitimum . for all that which is any way lawfull . And so S. e Thomas , and other School-deuines doe affirme , Ius , to be obiectum Iustitiae , the obiect of Iustice , that is to say about which all iustice is exercised . And finaly f Isidorus sayth , Lex est species Iuris , Law is a braunch or kind of right : and consequently M. Attorney doth not so properly throughout his whole booke interprete Ius by the word Law ; which I would not haue noted so largly , but that he being so great a lawyer , had obligation to speake more exactly ; though noe man deny , but that Ius and Lex may sometimes be taken for the same , but not euer , nor properly in this case . For that the question is not , nor was not of Q. Elizabeths Ecclesiasticall lawes but of the right shee had to make such lawes . 4. The second point , worth the noting is , that wheras both the title , and subiect of all this booke , is of the Kings Ecclesiasticall law . M. Attorney in the whole Course therof , from the begining of our Christian Kings vnto K. Henry the eight , ( who were aboue an hundered & twenty in number ) neuer citeth so much as one Ecclesiasticall law made by anie of them . For that , they being Catholikes , made not , but receiued Ecclesiasticall lawes , from such as had authoritie to make them , in the Catholique Church . And such later Statutes , Decrees , and Ordinances as were made by some later Kings , from K. Edward the first downward , for restraint of some execution of the Popes ecclesiasticall power , in certaine externall points , were not made by them , as ecclesiasticall , but as temporall laws , in respect of the common wealth , for auoiding certaine pretended hurtes , and incommodities therof . And M. Attorney is driuen to such pouerty , & straights in this case , as not being able to alleadge anie one instance , to the contrary , out of all the foresaid ages : hee runneth euery where to this shift , that the Popes Ecclesiasticall , and Canon laws , being admitted in England , m●y bee called the Kings ecclesiasticall laws , for that , they are admitted , and allowed by him , and his realme . In which sense , the Euangelicall law , may bee called also the Kings law , for that he admitteth the Bible . But of this wee shall haue occasiō to speake more often afterward . For that M. Attorney doth often run to this refuge . Now then to the Preface in his owne words . The Attorney to the Reader . It is truly saide ( good Reader ) that Error ( Ignorance being her inseparable twynne ) doth in her proceeding , so infinitely multiplie herselfe , produceth such monstrous and strange chimeraes , floateth in such , and so many incertainties , and sucketh downe such poison from the contagious breath of Ignorance ; as all such into whom shee infuseth any of her poisoned breath , shee dangerously infects , or intoxicates : and that which is wonderfull , before shee can come to any end , she bringeth all things ( if shee be not preuented ) by confusion to a miserable and vntimely end . Naturalia & ve●é artificialia sunt finita . Nulius terminus false Error immensus . The Catholik Deuine . 5. To this so vehement accusation of Error and Ignorance , I could 10. Moreouer our Deuines doe handle this matter of Ignorance so exactly in al their writings , as by treating of Ignorance , they proue themselues not ignorant , but most learned . For first defininge Ignorāce in generall to be want , or lake of knowledge , they distinguish the same into two sortes The one Negatiue , the other Priuatiue . And as for the Negatiue , which importeth only a simple , & pure want of science , it is not reprehensible of it self , for that it might be in man , euen before his fall in the state of innocency , & is now in Angells & other Saints in heauē ; for that they doe not know all things which may bee knowne ( this being proper to God alone . ) Albeit they know so much as is sufficient , to their euerlasting beatitude . So as this kind of Ignorāce may stand vvith blessednes in heauen : And vpon earth also the Scripture signifieth that it is lawfull , and good for men to be ignorant in many things , & not to know , or desire to know more then is needfull , which leadeth to curiosity , and this of Ignorantia negatiua . 11. Priuatiua ignorantia is that which depriueth a man of some knowleg , which he may and ought to haue . And vnto this , our Deuines doe shew that Error doth ad an approbation of that which is false , either in iudgment , or will. And vnto Error , heresie doth ad yet further , pertinacity , and obstinacie , of will especially . And these are the fower degrees of Ignorance in this sense , to witt , Negatiue , Priuatiue , Erroneous , and Hereticall . But now this priuatiue Ignorance is subdiuided againe into diuers other members , and braunches . As for example into Voluntary , and Vnuoluntary Ignorance : and Vnuoluntary hath two degrees . The one that is altogeather vnuoluntary , so as by noe diligence of ours it could be auoyded , and therfore by Deuines is called Inuincible : and this is so far of from being a synne , or causing synne , as it doth excuse any synne whatsoeuer . For if a man should kill his owne father not knowing him , or what he doth at all , nor any way concurringe to the said Ignorance ; he were to be excused , I doubt not , euen by M. Attorneys law . 12. The other sort of vnuoluntary Ignorance , called Vincible is that which albeit it proceedeth not of our owne will directly , yet with some kinde of diligence , it might haue bene auoided , and preuented , and according to this it may be culpable , or vnculpable . Voluntary Ignorance also may be either , effect●ta that is willingly procured , either in it self , or in her cause , or by some grosse negligence , not auoided ; and this either antecedenter , consequenter , concomitanter , in facto , vel in iure , and other considerations , and circumstances , which Catholike Deuines doe prescribe , for discerning or iudging of mens synnes , and offences , according to knowledg and a good conscience . And in this are they occupied , whilest Protestants stand crying out and exclaiming against Ignorance in generall ; and that for the most part so ignorantly , as in nothinge more they shew their ignorance , then by such manner of impugning Ignorance . I will not apply this to M. Attorney , whome I take in his art to be a man of much science , yet is his speach in this place considerable for his degree . Error ( saith hee ) doth in her proceeding ( hee should haue said ( his ) according to the gender ) so infinitely multiplie her self , produceth such monstrous and strange chimeraes , floateth in such and so many incertainties , as all such into whom she infuseth any of her poisoned breath , she dangerously infects or intoxicates . A strange and sharpe inuectiue ; for all men , more or lesse , doe erre ; if wee beleeue either Gods word , or our owne experience . Some ignorance also is inauoidable , some excusable , some laudable , some tollerable , some culpable , and some inculpable ; as before it is shewed ; and being but a priuation , or negation , how commeth she to haue such poison , and soe contagious a breath , as here she is accused to haue , without any distinction at all ; seeing that in some degree she is also in Angells , as hath bene sayd ; and may be in good and most learned men vpon earth , as holy Iob testified of himself . Si simplex fuero ( saith he ) hoc ipsum ignorabit anima mea . If I be simple , or innocent ( in the sight of God ) yet shall my soule be ignorante of this : to wit in this life . To which purpose the holy Ghost saith in another place : Nescit homo vtrum amore an odio dignus fit . A man knoweth not ( in this life ) wheather he be worthy of loue , or hatred before God. And againe : Nescit homo suum finem . A man knoweth not his end . And none of these ignorances are reprehended . Nay S. Paul doth commend and counsell ignorāce to the Romanes in many things , writing thus . I say vnto yow all by the grace of Christ , which is giuen vnto mee , that yow goe aboute to know noe more , thē you ought to know , but that your knowledg be to sobriety . And this is Catholike sober doctrine of science , & ignorance , whilest sectaries doe intemperatly bragg of knowledg , and obiect ignorance to others . 13. And surely I cannot but marueile , with what shew of reason , this Knight Attorney here now , as also another knight Puritan not long agoe in his writinge should obiect so confidently Ignorance to Romane Catholiks of these our dayes . For if we cast our eyes vpō any kinde of learning whatsoeuer , that may be handled by learned men , and skill showed therin , whether it be diuinity , or other science , the Catholiks are ten for one in number in all preeminence before any one sect of our dayes , or all put togeather . Looke ouer all sciences , & writers therof at this day , as of Eloquence , skill of toungs , Philosophy , Mathematicke , histories , and the like ; number the authors , consider their substance , weigh their estimation , and see whether it be not so , or noe , euen in the opinion of all protestant students . 14. And as for Theologie which is the principall subiect , wheras they handle only one , or two partes of positiue Diuinity ; to witt controuersies , and the text of Scripture , wee handle not only the same much more abundantly , as appeareth by our writers , both of controuersies , and commentaryes ; but doe handle two other partes also of much more importance , which is , scholasticall , appertaining to knowledg , & morall for direction of mens consciences in practise ; both which are wholy wanting in Protestant schooles . 15. And this being soe as by the eye is euidently verified to him that will look vpon it , how inept and ridiculous is it , that euery Sectary beginninge to write against vs , shall presently take his exordium from obiecting Ignorance , wheras euery meane learned Catholike man , by verdict of common sense and reason ( if no other proofs were ) must needs be presumed to haue more knowledg , then a hundered sectaryes togeather . For that hee following in his knowledg , and learninge ( touching all points of his faith ) the knowledg , learninge , wisdome , and authority of the vniuersall Catholike Church , consistinge of infinite , wise , and learned men , and directed by the highest wisdome of God himself ; he maketh all their wisdome , his wisdome , their knowledg , his knowledg , and their learning his learning , in this point of his saluation . Wheras the sectary following his owne sense , and braine , ech one in his fancie , is alone as you see , and hath no true knowledge , learning , or wisdome at all , though he bragg neuer so much of speciall knowledge , and illumination , as before you haue heard , out of Tertullian and Irenaeus to haue been their auncient spirit , and will be to the worlds end . And this shall suffice to this point . Now will M. Attorney passe to another , of the commendation of Truth ; as though that were with him , and his . And wee shall follow him , to examine that point also , as wee haue done this other about Ignorance . The Attorney . On the other side Truth , 2 cannot be supported , or defended by any thing , but by Truth herselfe , and is of that constitution , and constancy , that she cannot , at any time , or in any part , or point , be disagreable to her self . She hateth all bumbasting , and sophistication , and bringeth with her certainty , vnity , simplicity , and peace at the last . Putida salsamenta amant origanum , veritas pèr se placet , honesta per se decent , falsa fucis , turpia phaleris indigent . Ignorance is so far from excusing , or extenuating the error of him , that had power to finde out the truth ( which necessarily he ought to know & wanted only will to seeke it ) as she will be a iust cause of his great punishment . Quod scire debes , & non vis non pro ignorantia , sed pro contemptu habers debet . Error , and falshood , are of that condition , as without any resistance they will in tyme of themselues fade and fall away . But such is the state of Truth , that though many doe impugne her , yet will she of her self euer preuaile in the end , and flourish like the palme-tree : she may peraduenture by force , for a tyme be troden downe , but neuer by any meanes whatsoeuer can she be troden out . The Catholike Deuine . 16. None do more willinglie heare the commendation of Truth then we , who say with S. Paul. VVee can do nothing against truth , but for truth . And therfore do I willinglie ioyne with M. Attorney in this point of praisinge Truth . Wee do mislike also , no lesse then he , all bumbasting , and sophistication : neither are we delighted with stinkinge salt-fish , that had need of Orygon , to giue it a good sauour . Wee allow in like manner of his other latin phrases , and do confesse , that Truth herselfe may be troden downe for a tyme by force , but neuer troden out . But what is all this to the purpose we haue in hand of findinge out the Truth in this our controuersie ? Let vs suppose for the present , that both partes do like well of her ? but what meanes is giuen heere , or may be giuen , to discouer where she lyeth ? In all other controuersies lightly , our aduersaries , are wont to remit vs only to scriptures for tryall : which was an old tryck in like manner of their foresaid forernuners , as the auncient * Fathers testify , for that , scriptures being subiect to more cauillation many times , both for the interpretation , and sense , then the controuersie it selfe , gaue them commodity to make their contentions immortall . 17. But the same Fathers vrging them with a shorter way , asked them still . Quid prius , quid posterius ? What was first , and what after ? for that heresie is nouelty , and commeth in after the Catholike Truth first planted . And for that euery hereticke pretendeth his heresie , to be ancient , and from the Apostles , the said Fathers do vrge further , that this Truth of our Religion , must not only be eldest , but must haue continued also from tyme to tyme , at least with the greater part of Christians . Quia proprium est hareticorum omnium ( saith old Tertullian ) pauca aduersus pl●●a , & posteriora aduersus priora defendere . It is the property of all hereticks , and their peculiar spirit , to defend the lesser number , against the greater , and those things that are later , against the more auncient : Which agreeth with another saying of Tertullian . Quod apud multos vnum inuenitur , non est erratum , sed traditum . That which is found one and the self-same with many ( to witt , the greater parte in the Christian Church ) is no error , but commeth downe by tradition . So hee . But S. Augustine deliuereth another direction much conformable to this in sense , though different in words . Consider ( saith he ) what is KATH'HOLON . Id est secundum totum , & non secundum partem . According to the whole , and not only to a part ; and this is the truth . And another of his tyme saith . Teneamus quod ab omnibus creditum est , hoc enim verè Catholicum . Let vs hold that which hath byn beleeued by all : for this is truly Catholike ; and consequently Truth it self . And another Father before them both . Catholicum est , quod vbique vnum . That is Catholike , & vndoubtedly trew , which euery where , is one and the same . And this both in tyme , place , and substance . 18 These are the ancient Fathers directions ; now let vs apply them to our present question , which is so much the easier to discusse : for that , albeit it comprehend some part of doctrine in controuersie , concerninge the Right of temporall Princes , to spirituall Iurisdiction ; yet is it principally , and properly a question of fact , to witt , whether , by the ancient common laws of England , and practice of our Princes , according to the same spiritual Iurisdiction , they were exercised by them in former ages , by force and vertue of their Imperiall crownes ; as Queene Elizabeth did , or might do , by the authority giuen her by an Act of Parlament , in the first yeare of her raigne , wherby she was made head , of the Church , and supreme gouernesse , as well in all causes , Ecclesiasticall , as temporall . In discussion wherof , if we wil vse the directions of the forsaid Fathers , for cleere and infallible tryall , we shall easily find out where the Truth lyeth ; which is the but , we ought to shoore at ; and not to contend in vayne : for that our assertion , quite contrary to that of M. Atourneys , is . That if we consider the whole ranke , of our Christian English Kings , from the very first , that was conuerted to our Christian faith , to witt , King Ethelbert of Kent , vnto the reigne of King Henry the eight , for the space of more then nine hundered years , ( and King Henry himself , for the greater and best part of his reigne ) did all , and euery one of them confesse , & acknowledg the spirituall power and Iurisdiction of the Sea of Rome , and did neuer contradict the same , in any one substantiall point either by word , law , or deed : but did infinite wayes confirme the said authority , ech one , in their ages & reignes . And this is that KATH'HOLON , or secundum totum which S. Augustine requireth ; and vbique vnam , which the other Fathers do mention ; which is a Catholike proofe , in a Catholike cause , and M. Attorney must needs fly ad partem , to a parte only , to witt , to two or three later Kings , of aboue halfe a hundered , that went before ; which is a schismaticall proofe as S. Augustine sheweth , Contra partem Donati . Against the parte of the heretick Donatus . And before him Opratus Mileuitanus , and diuers other Fathers , who alwayes call Sectaries , a Part ; For that they follow indeed but a part , and Catholiks the whole ; and therof ( saith S. Augustine ) their name is deriued . And thus much shall serue for our manner of proofe which wee meane to hold ; remittinge vs to the effect it self , when we shall come to ioyne issue afterward . Let M. Attorney vaunt in the meane tyme of the name only of Truth , but without meanes or meaninge to try the same . The Attorney . There is no subiect of this Realme , but being truly instructed , 3 by good , and plaine euidence , of his ancient and vndoubted patrimonie , and birth-right ( though , he hath for some tyme by ignorance , false persuasion , or vaine feare , byn deceiued , or dispossessed ) but wil consulte , with learned & faithful Coūselours for the recouery of the same . The ancient and excellent laws of England , are the birth-right , and most ancient and best inheritaunce , that the subiects of this Realme haue . For by them , he inioyeth not only his inheritaunce , and goods in peace and quietnes , but his life , and his most deere countrey in safty . And for that I feare , that many of my deare countreymen , ( and most of them of great capacity , and excellents parts ) for want of vnderstandinge of their owne euidence , do want the true knowledg , of their ancient birth-right , in some points of greatest importance : I haue in the beginning of this my first worke directed them to those , that will not only , faithfully counsell , and fully resolue them therin , ( such as cannot be daunted with any feare , moued by any affection , nor corrupted with any reward ) but also establish and settle them , in quiet , and lawfull possession . Vpon iust grounds to rectifie an error in a mans owne minde , is a worke of cleere vnderstanding , & of a reformed will , and frequent with such , as be good men , & haue sober , and setled wits . The Catholike Deuine . 19 It may please the reader , to consider , that of two propositions , which M. Attorney vseth commonly to lay forth for the furnishing of his discourse ; The first called the maior , we haue hitherto admitted , denying the second , or minor , and ther-vpon , his whole cōclusion , for that he subsumeth not wel . As for example , in his first proposition in reprehension of Ignorance , we agreed in such ignorance as is reprehensible , but his application therof to Catholiks , I shewed to be false , and his meere imagination . And the like in the second encounter , about Truth , I admitted his Encomion , and prayse of Truth , but disagreed in the manner of seeking out of the same , which he wholy omitted : And the same must I say in this third meeting of ours ; I do not contradict his maior proposition , that euery wise , and discreet subiect of the land , hauing been dispossessed of his ancient inheritance , and birth-right by ignorance , false persuasion , or vayne feare , will consult with learned , & faithful Counselours , for recouery therof . All this ( I saie ) is graunted ; but the application therof to the municipal laws of England ( which is the assumpt , or minor proposition ) I cannot confesse , to be so wel and fitly made . Let vs discusse a litle what the Attorney writeth . The ancient , and excellent laws of England ( saith he ) are the birth-right and most ancient , and best inheritance that the subiects of this Realme haue . Much is said in this , and albeit I do not meane to deny , or draw backe any part of the iust commendation , due to our municipal laws ; yet this strange hyperbole , axaggeration , or ouerlashing of M. Attorney , tending ( as after shal appeere ) to a false , and preiudicial conclusion , is worthy some stay theron . For , first I would aske him what great , and singular antiquity he findeth in our municipal laws , that so often he nameth them ancient , as though , they were eminent , and singular in that point of antiquitie aboue other laws ; wheras I , for my part , finde noe memory of any of them extant , before the Conquest and no written statute law before the raigne of King Henry the third , which was two hundred years after that againe , & with him doth Iudge Rastall also begin his collection of laws and statutes , from Magna Charta downwards : which was made in the 9. yeare of the said King , and of Christ , one thowsand , two hundered & sixteene ; which is not yet ful foure hundred years gone . And yet did Englishmen liue in England before the Conquest , more then twyse as longe , vnder lawes , partly municipal , and partly Imperiall ; to say nothing of the Britaine 's before them againe : And consequently , I see not how we may bragge so much of antiquity in this point . 20. As for the excellency of our laws , I meane not to withdraw , any due commendation , as before I said , nor to stand heere to discusse , what commodities , and incommodities they haue , as al humane things that depend of the variable iudgment , and likinge of men ; yet cannot any indifferent , and disappassionat man , but remember that , which all our writers do commonly note , that they were brought in principally by Conquest , and a Conquerour , and such a one as intended to bridle the English by that meanes , and to bring them vnder by those lawes ; And what misery , calamity and exceeding thraldome , our afflicted nation passed in those dayes , vnder those lawes , and the insolent dominion of the Normans ; let any man read Ingulphus , that liued in those dayes , and other English Historiographers that ensued soone after , as Malmesbury , Huntington , Houeden , and the like , and then will he pitty their case that first liued vnder them . 21. It is euident likewise by all testimony of our old histories , how frequent , and earnest reclaime was made by the people , and nobility to diuerse Kings after the Conquest , against these newer laws , for the restoring of such , as were in vse before the said Conquest , especially those of King Edgar and S. Edward the Confessor , about which point oftentymes , there were no small tumults made , and yet now by vse , and tract of tyme , the mislike being asswaged , and wee taught to be still , yea and to kisse the rodde , wherwith then we were beaten ; M. Attorney , now will needes haue vs , adore the same , and esteeme them not only for ancient , but excellent lawes also , wherin I meane not to loose tyme in stryuing with him , for that I do hasten to a more important conclusion . 22. Further then , he not being contented with these two most honorable Epithetons and Euloges of Antiquitie and Excellency , passeth on to another superlatiue degree , saying , that they are not only the vndoubted patrimony , and birth-right , but also the most ancient and best inheritance , which the subiects of this Realme haue ; wherof hee yeldeth this reason , for that by them , they enioy , their life , liuings , and countrey in peace and saftie : Which if it be so , then what inheritance had old English-men , for so many hundred yeares , before these lawes were made ? what riches , or inheritance haue those men by them in our dayes , which are borne , without landes or liuings ? Will this patrimony of the law , make them rich ? M. Attorney , and diuers of his fellowes , haue had a good patrimony , and inheritaunce by them : but this is not euery mans case . 23. I confesse that the lawes of euery countrey , are a certeyne birth-right of all subiects that are borne therin ; and if they bee good and equall , it is a publike benefit , but much more if they be well executed , by a iust Prince , which importeth more than writen lavves . For that he , as M. Attorney confesseth , is the soule of the law , that giueth life , who also without writen lawes , either municipall , or Imperiall , may administer iustice , by law of nature and nations , if he will. What speciall , or singular commodity then , is here shewed to issue out of the municipall lawes of England aboue others , that they should be called our ancient , & best inheritance ? Yea , as he addeth after , in matters of greatest Importance , meaning therby our soule , & saluation . Is not this an ouerlashing ? is not this an egregious hyperbole ? Do not subiects in Scotland , France , Italy , Spaine , and other places , enioy their goods in peace and quietnes , and their liues , and deare countreyes in safty , as wel by their lawes Imperial , as we do , by our municipall Yes ; and much more , if we will beleeue them , and their learnedest , & this vpon some attent consideration of euents , which dayly they heare , and reade , of many men both great , and small , to haue bin ouerthrowne , and condemned in our countrey , both in liues , & liuinges , which they thinke by their Imperiall lawes were impossible . And one only circumstance of English tryall in life , and death ( to omit the rest ) doth leaue them astonished , to witt , that be he neuer so great a man , yet for his life , and landes honour , & posterity , he may not haue that allowed him , which in an action of fiue poundes renr , or lesse , he should obteyne ; which is a learned lawyer , or aduocate to speake for him at the barre ; but that all the Princes officers , and learned Counsell , shall plead against him , exaggerating matters to the vttermost ; and he only suffered to speake for himself , and that in measure , who for lack of skill , or memory , or tyme to consider , or boldnes to speake , or talent to vtter well his meaninge , may there betray , and ouerthrow both himself , & his whole posterity in his owne defence . 24. And finally , the last vpshot being of that dreadfull action , to commit the matter to a iury of vnlearned men , that must giue their verdicts openly ; and by consequence , vpon the same causes before mentioned of error , feare , hope , or other passion ( the Prince being alwayes on part interessed ) may easily be led finistrously to the prisoners condemnation . All which inconueniences , being carefully prouided for , by course of other lawes do make forreine learned men to thinke , that ours are more defectiue , than we persuade our selues , and that it may easily be beleeued , that they were made indeed by a Conquerour . And I could haue byn glad , that M. Attorney in this place , had alleaged , some singular thing in their extraordinary commendation , for that the enioying of our goods , liues , lands , and contrey by them ( which he mencioneth ) are very ordinary , and vulgar commendations , and common to all lawes in generall , that euer were made , by reasonable men . And yet , do we not deny , but that our English lawes , for the whole corpes , and dryft therof , are very commendable ; especially where the spirit , and meaninge of the first founders is obserued by the followers : yet want there not , by graue mens iudgments , many considerable points that might be better rectified ; and namely concerning the imperious , and dominant maner of proceeding of many lawyers , and their exorbitant gaines , which yet perhaps M. Attorney will place among the cheife commendations of our said common lawes . 25. In the other point also of remitting men for the knowledg of their euidence , & ancient birth-right in some pointes of greatest importance to faithful Counseloures , that will resolue them fully without feare , affection , or corruption , if he meane by these Counseloures , as he doth , those Iudges and Sages of the Common-law , from whom he hath taken these peeces , against Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ; which after he hath set downe , I must needs saie , that it is litle to the purpose . For albeit , now they be dead , he may well saie ( as he doth ) that they cannot be daunted with any feare , moued by any affection , or corrupted with any reward ; yet when they were aliue , & gaue their resolutions , ( which he saith they did ) it is hardly credible that they were soe deuoide of those passions , as he would make them , they being no Saintes , but wordlie men that sought their aduauncement vnder their Princes , by pleasing their humours ; as lawyers of our tymes do ; wherof I could alleadg many examples , and some perhaps we may touch after in their due places . Now it shal be sufficient to remember that in diuerse Kings daies , after the Conquest , the cheife cōplaints of the people , were against their cheife Iusticers , ( would God wee had not the like cause now ) who in those times most gouerned the state , or abused rather the same , as the examples of Hubert de Borgo , and Robert Tresilian , cheif Iustices vnder K. Henry the third and Richard the second , and both of then punished publiklie for their wickednes , doe testifie . And in the begining of K. Edward the third his raigne , I read of a complaint made by the King , and the whole Parliament , that his father , K. Edward 2. had byn induced by euil Counsellours ( which in that case may iustlie be presumed to haue byn his Iudges , and lawyers ) to sease into his hands the temporaltie of diuerse Bishopricks , &c. Which , for the time to come , he promised not to doe . And finallie after that againe , when the contention , and controuersie , between the two potent houses , of Lancaster , and Yorke began , and endured for almost 100. years , I find few Iudges , or great Sages of the common-law , to haue lost their liues therin , for anie side , or partie , as manie Dukes , Earls , Barons , knights , yea , and some Bishops also , & religious did . Which is a signe that those Sages were to wise to oppose themselues , to anie sorte of Princes whatsoeuer , but could accommodate themselues to all and draw the birth-right of laws to the establishing of any Kings right , that by his sword could get the possession . 26. But to prosequute these matters no further in this place , I am only to adde for conclusion of all , that the true ancien● birth-right , aud best inheritance of English subiects indeed , i● their right to Catholique religion , which was first planted amonge them , from the Sea of Rome , by the singular zeale of holy Pope Gregory the first , a thousand years gone , and continued without interruption to our dayes , as afterwards shall be shewed , and that for seeking out and cleering the euidence of this right , they ought to be diligent , and to spare no labour , paine , or industrie ; for that therof dependeth their eternall saluation , or damnation , which doth not of the knowledge , or not knowledg of the common law , and that for certifyinge themselues in this point , they ought to repaire to faithful Counsellers indeed , who are the ancient Fathers , and writers of Gods Church in euery age ; who being not only wise , and learned , but holy also , may securely be presumed to deliuer the Truth in this controuersie , which was not raised vp in their dayes , and consequently could not be passionate therin , nor daunted with feare , moued by affection , or corrupted with rewarde , as later lawyers and Sages might be , that gaue sentence in matters which concerned their interest , fauour , or disfauour of present Princes ; And ( would God ) M. Attorney himselfe would in this point follow the direction of his Poesie out of Macrobius de veterum lectione ; of reading the ancient Fathers , and old incorrupt writers diligently to this effect : For I doubt not , but that so good a witt , as his is , would quickly discerne the truth , if preiudice or passion , vpon interest or disinterest , do not depriue him of that happines . For albeit our Sauiour hath a dreadful sentence , that it is as hard for a rich man to enter into heauen , as a Camel to go through a needels eye ; yet doth he say also in ●he same place , that what is vnpossible to man , is possible with God , which may iustly deliuer rich men from desperation , though not from due feare . And so much of this . Now shal we see , what M. Attorney saith more . The Attorney . The end of such as write , concerning any matter , which by some for want of instruction is called into controuersie ; should be with all the candor , and charity , that can be vsed , to perswade , & resolue by demonstratiue proofes , the diligent Reader in the Truth : But now a dayes those that write of such matter , do for the most part , by their bitter and vncharitable inuectiues , transported with passion and fury , either beget new controuersies , or do as much as in them lyeth to make the former immortall . Certaine it is that some books of that argument , haue had Truth for their Center , yet because they haue wanted temperance , modesty , and vrbanity for their circumference , haue , to the great preiudice of the truth , hardned the aduersaries in their errors , and by their bitter inuectiues , whetted them not only to defend themselues , and to offend in the like , but many times ( being therby vrged to write ) to defend the error it self to the hurt of many ; which otherwise might haue vanished away , without any contradiction . The Catholike Deuine . 27. This candor and charitye , which M. Attorney wisheth in al writers of Controuersyes is laudable , and fully agreeing also to our desires , that be Catholicks ; and it falleth out wel , that some grauer men of the Protestant partie do shew at length by publicke testimony , their mislike of such bitter , and vncharitable inuectiues , which their ministers , that should be guides of modestie to others ( being transported with passion , and fury to vse M. Attorneys words ) do exercise , and therby they do beget nevv controuersies , and make the former immortall . All this we graunt , and do much allow , & commend M. Attorneys vrbanity therin , and could easily also gesse , at the persons , whome principallie he meaneth , who haue by their beastly late libels so defiled as it were , the very art , and profession of writing books , through base , exorb●tant , and shameles scurrility , as men disdayne to reade them any more , holding both them , and their Authors in most odious contempt . 28. And yet in one thing I cannot agree with M. Attorney in this point , when he saieth that these bitter inuectiues of theirs haue whetted their aduersaries to defend themselues , which otherwise they would not haue done : For I holde the contrary to be true , which is , that their brutish veine of intemperate , and shamles writinge , hath freed them from all reioynder of any modest or ciuill aduersary ; wheras on the other side M. Attorney is answered as you see , for that his temperance , modestie , and vrbanity in the circumference of his Center , deserueth the same , though his said Center haue not that truth in it , which were to be wished , answerable to those other good commendations of his . And this wil ly vpon vs to proue in the prosecution of this whole Answere . Now let vs passe to the rest of his Preface . The Attorney . Hee that against his cōscience , doth impugne a knowne truthe , doth it either in respect of himself , or of others ; Of himself , in that he hath within him a discontented hart ; Of others , whome for certaine worldly respects he seeketh to please . Discontented he is , 4 either because he hath not attained vnto his ambitious , and vniust desires ; or for that , in the eye of the State , he for his vices , or wickednes , hath iustly deserued punishment , and disgrace : and therfore doth oppose himself against the current of the present , to please others , in respect that his creditt , or maintenance dependeth vpon their fauour and beneuolence . I know that at this day , al Kingdomes , and States are gouerned by lawes , and that the particular , & approued custome of euery nation , is the most vsual binding , and assured law . I deale only , with the municipal lawes of England , which I professe , and wherof I haue byn a student aboue these 35. years . My only end , and desire is , that such as are desirous to see and know , ( as who will not desire to see , and know his owne ? ) may be instructed ; such as haue byn taught amisse ( euery man beleeuing , as he hath byn taught ) may see , and satisfy himself with the truth ; and such as know and holde the truth ( by hauing so ready , and easie a way to the fountaines themselus ) may be comforted , and comfirmed . Farewell . Multa ignoramus quae non laterent , si veterum lectio nobis esset familiaris . Macrob. 6. Satur. The Catholicke Deuine . 29. Albeit this last part of M. Attorneys Preface , be somwhat close , and darke ; yet it is not hard ( these circumstances considered ) to leuell at his meaning , which is that Catholike men , that write of controuersies in this time , do write against their consciences , vpon discontentment , which he presupposing without proofe ( wheras principally he should haue proued this ) he passeth on to tell vs , why they doe it , in respect of themselues , or others , and vpon what grounds , their discontentments arise , which by M. Attorneys leaue , is altogeather impertinent , both for that he leaueth vnproued , that which especiallie he should haue proued , and that which he endeuoureth to proue , is wholie from our purpose and hath no coherence with our cause at al. 30. For first we deny that Catholiks doe write against their consciences to impugne a knowne truth , for this they holde to be a most hainous , and damnable sinne , and one of the six that are against the holy Ghost , and very peculiar to heretiks , as appeareth by those words of S. Paul before recyted , where he writeth in respect of this pertinacy in defending their owne heresies , and proper elections against their consciences , that heretiks are damned by their owne iudgements , * and so doe the ancient Fathers with great consent ascribe vnto heretiks this speciall sinne amonge others of Impugnatio veritatis cognitae , Impugning the knowe truth for willfull defence of their owne fantasies , which is properlie termed by t●em Pertinacia or peruicacia haeretica , Hereticall pertinacy . But now for English Catholiks at this day , what reason haue they to sinne so damnably , as to write against their owne consciences , seeing that by following their consciences , they might follow also their commodities ? W●at new opinions haue they inuented of their owne , or taken vpon them to follow inuented by others ; for which they should be drawne to write against the knowne tru●h● that is to saie ( as all Fathers do expounde it ) the Catholike truth . For that is knowne , receiued , and acknowledged , and hath byn from time , to time , throughout Christendome ; wheras new opinions , are not knowne truthes , but presumed truthes by a few , in some particuler place , or countrey , and for some certaine time past , and not publiklie continued from the beginning . 31. As for example in the present controuersie ( to pretermit all others ) English Catholiks saie , that they approue noe other Ecclesiastical power , than that which all the Kings of England from the first that was conuerted vnto King Henry the eight togeather with their Counsellours , lawyers , and Sages , both spirituall , and temporall , haue allowed , receiued , practised , and confirmed by their owne municipal lawes . M Attorney on the other side holdeth the contrary , and bringeth only for his direct proofe , the constitutio●s of two or three late Princes , Q. Elizabeth a woman K. Edward a child , and some parte of King Henries raigne , distracted from the rest , and deuided also from himselfe in all other points of Rel●gion besides Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction ; but for indirect proose , he cyteth certaine peeces , and parcells of Ordinances , Lawes , and Decrees of some former Catholike Princes , which seeme to restraine , or suspend in some particular cases , the execution of the said Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction in matters not meerly spirituall , but mixt with temporalities as to them it seemed , and not denying therby any parte of the spirituall power it self , as after shall be shewed . 32. Now then wheras he alleadgeth three Princes Decrees against the Popes authoritie interrupted by a fourth , ( for that Queene Marie annulled the two that went before her , and ioyned fully with her auncient progenitors ) wee one the contrary side , for these three interrupted , doe produce neere threescore by descent without interruption , and for threescore yeares more , or lesse , wherin they made these lawes , wee alleadge more , then three times three hundered , and for a part or parcell of t●e Sages of our Land , which in these later dayes , vpon art , feare , or industrious induction were drawne to consent vnto these new lawes , against the old , with vtter mislike of the sar greate●t part ; wee ●ay forth the whole vniforme consent of all sortes , beginning with the first very planting of Christian Religion in our countrey , & continued for more than nine hundr●d years togeather : so as we alleadg both antiquitie , prioritie , vniuersalitie , continuance , and succession , without interruption ; which are all the markes of Catholike verity , and consequently when we write for defence of this , in euery controuersie of our dayes , how can the Attorney saie , or pretend to imagine , that we write against our consciences , and the knowne truth . 33. And as for the imaginarie causes of discontentment , which he deuiseth ; either for that men haue not atteined vnto their ambitious , and vniust desires , or for that , in the eye of the State , their vices , and wickednes haue deserued punishment , and disgrace ; and therfore doe oppose themselues , against the current of the present . These speculations , I saie , cannot fal any way vpon English Catholiks , not doe subsist of themselues . Not the later , for that they are knowne to be temperate men , & so will the countrey commonlie , where they liue , beare them wittnes , and the experience of their singuler patience vnder the pressures of the late Queene doth manifestly testifie the same . Not the first , for that if conscience did not retaine them , they might gaine more , and more aduaunce their ambitious desires ( if they haue any ) by following the Current of the time with M. Attorney and others , than by standing against it , to suffer themselues to be ouerflowne therwith . And it is a great presumption in all reason , that he hath a good conscience who standeth thervnto with his losse , that might run downe the hill with the current , to his gaine , and preferment . For that this later is easie , and vulgar , and common to the worst men , as well as to good : the other is hard , and rare , and needeth gr●at vertue , and fortitude of mind , wherof I may chaunce to haue occasion to speake more largely afterward at the end of this booke in a speciall chapter to M. Attorney himselfe ( when our principall controuersie shal be tryed ) shewing what vrgent , forcible , and peremptorie reasons Catholike men haue , though with neuer so great losse temporall , to stand for the defence of their consciences & not to runne downe the current with him and others , that swymme with full sayle therin . And so much of this . 34. Some other few pointes of litle importance , doe remaine in this passage of M. Attorneys Preface , which might be touched , and examined ; as where he saith , that the particular , and approued custome of euery nation is the most vsuall binding , and assured law ; and for more authoritie of this asseueration , as also of whatsoeuer he saith besides , or pretendeth to say , out of our lawes in his ensuing Treatise : he addeth that he hath byn a student therof for these 35. yeares : but I could bring forth lawyers of no lesse standinge , and study , ( though perhaps with lesse gaine ) that would contradict him , in both these points . First , that custome is not allwayes the most vsuall binding law , either in conscience , or otherwise ; & with these would run , all the ministers of Englaud , in the case of Catholike , and Protestant Religion , wherin custome by their owne confession is against them . And in the second point concerning the peeces , & parcelles heere alleadged , out of our Common-lawes , against the Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , as M. Attorney would haue it seeme ; these men would alleadge , twenty for one , not shredes or liberts of lawes , but intyre lawes themselues ; authorizinge and confirminge , with full vniformity and vniuersality of our English nations consente , the said Iurisdiction , from time to time , and the vse and practise therof . But of this afterward . 35. Now to conclude with M. Attorney in this his Preface , if his end , and desire be , as he saith , that such , as are desirous to se , & to know , may be instructed , and such as haue byn taught amisse , may se , and satisfie themselues with the truth , and such as know , and hold the truth , may be comforted , and confirmed , I shall gladlie ioyne with him in this end , and desire ; p●aying almightie God , that himself also and many more with him , may bee in the first two members , for that in the third , none can be , but true Catholiks . And this shall suffice for this place . For as for the Latin sentence out of Macrobius , that our ignorance in many things proceedeth of that we reade not diligently the work of ancient authors , I haue touched in parte before , and doe allow of the sense now againe , though more fitlie the same might haue byn shewed out of many Christian authors of more authoritie , that this heathen . Yet let M. Attorney ioyne issue with me vpon antiquitie , in this our controuersie ( which he ought to doe ) as well in regard of this sentence , as also for that euery where he iterateth the name , and sound of the ancient , and most ancient Common-lawes of England ; and then will the matter be quicklie decided , as the proofe will afterward declare : whervnto I remit me , and doe end my answere to M. Attorneys Preface , returning him his freindlie Farewell , as also to the Reader . OF THE STATE OF THE QVESTION IN GENERALL , Concerning Spirituall , and Temporall Povver , and Iurisdiction ; their origen , and subordination one to the other : And how they stand togeather in a Christian Common-wealth . CHAP. II. TO the end , that the prosecution , and issue of the particular controuersie we haue in hand , about the Spirituall authoritie of Q. Elizabeth , may be more cleere ; it shall not be a misse perhapes , in this very beginning , to set downe breiflie , what Catholike Deuines , and other learned men , doe write and holde of Power , and Iurisdiction in generall , and of the origen , ofspring , author , diuision , and partes therof ; wherin M. Attorney is wholie silent , vsing no explication , or distinction at all , and consequently giueth occasion therby to some confusion . 2. First then our Deuines affirme that almighty God is author of all lawfull Power whatsoeuer , both spirituall , and temporall according to that generall proposition of S. Paul , Non est potestas nisi à Deo. There is no power but from God. For that , as it pleased his diuine maiestie , to imparte with man other sparkes of his excellencyes , as wisdome , reason , knowledge , prouidence , and the like ; so vouchsafed he also to make man partaker of his power , and authoritie not only to gouerne all other creatures of his in the worlde , but mankynde also , and this both in body and soule , temporall , and eternall things vnder him in this world , as his liestennant and substitute . 3. The differences which are betweene these two Powers , & Iurisdictions , Spirituall , and Temporall Ecclesiasticall , and Ciuill ; are diuers and sundry , taken from the diuersitie of their ends & obiect ; The end of Spirituall Power being to direct vs , to euerlasting saluation , both by instruction , discipline , and correction ; and of the Temporall or Ciuill , by like meanes , and helps , to gouerne well t●e Common-wealth , in peace , aboundance , order , iustice , and prosperitie . And accordinge to these ends , are also their obiects , matter , and meanes . As for example , the former hath for her obiect spirituall things belonginge to the soule , as matters of faith , Doctrine , Sacraments , and such other ; and thy latter handleth the Ciuill affaires of the Realme , and Common-wealth , as they appertaine to the temporall good , and prosperitie thereof . 4. The ancient learned Father S. Gregorie Nazianzen in a certaine Oration of his , doth expresse , the nature , and conditions of these two Powers ; Spirituall and Temporall . Ecclesiasticall , and Ciuill , by the similitude of spirit and flesh , soule , and sense ; which he saith , may be considered , either as two distinct Common-wealths , seperated the one from the other ; or conioyned togeather in one Common-wealth only . An example of the former , wherin they are seperated , may be in Beasts , & Angells ; the one hauing their Common-wealth of Sense onlie , without soule or spirit , and their end and obiects conforme thervnto , which are the nourishment , and preseruation of the body . And the other Common wealth of Angells , being of spirit only , without flesh or body ; but in man are conioyned , both the one , and the other . And euen so in the Common wealth of the Gentiles , was onlie authoritie politicall , earthlie , and humane , giuen by God to gouerne worldlie and humaine things , but not spirituall for the soule ; wheras contrarywise in the Primitiue Christian Church , for almost 300. yeare togeather , none or few Kings being yet conuerted , onlie spiritual authoritie was exercised by the Apostle and Christians Bishopps , their successours for gouerninge the Church in Ecclesiasticall affaires without temporall , accordinge to the saying of S. Paul in the Acts of the Apostles speaking to Bishops . Vos posuit Spiritus Sanctus Episcopos regere ecclesiam Dei. The holy-ghost hath appointed you , that are Bishops to gouerne his Church . 5. And this Spirituall Iurisdiction in respect of the high end , and obiect therof , aboue the temporall , did the same Apostles by instructiō of the same Holie Ghost , so highlie esteeme , as the same S. Paul writinge to the Corinthians , and reprehendinge them for going to law about temporall things , before the heathen magistrate , said , that in secular matters , they should appoint for iudges , such as were contemptible in the Church , that is to say , men of meane account , which was spoken by him , not for that he contemned temporall Power , as the heretical Anabaptists out of this place would proue , ( for so he should be contrarie to himselfe , who a litle before , as you haue heard , auowed , that all power is from God , and in other places , that the King , and temporall magistrate , is to be honoured , and obeyed , as Gods minister , and the like ) but onlie , he saith this in comparison , the one of the other , and of their ends , and obiects , so different in dignitie , & worthines , as you haue heard . And this continued in the Primitiue Church , ( to witt , Spirituall Iurisdiction , without Temporall ) vntill Constantine the Great ; and other Emperours and Kings after him , being conuerted to the Christian faith , entred into the said Church , retaininge their Temporall States , and Temporall Power , which before they had , but submitting themselues in spirituall , and Ecclesiasticall matters , vnto the spirituall gouernment and gouernours , which they found to haue been in the same Church before their conuersion . 6. Furthermore besides these differences , of the end , and obiects of these two Powers , the forsaid Deuines doe shew another no lesse considerable then the former , which is , that albeit , both of them be of God , and doe proceed from him ; as the Author , & origen , as hath been said ; yet far differentlie : for that Ecclesiasticall authoritie , is immediatlie from God , and was giuen by Christ immediatlie to his Apostles , and Bishops , as before you haue heard , out of S. Paul , who addeth in the same place , that Christ gaue them this Spirituall Iurisdiction ouer that Church quam acqui fiuit sanguine suo , which he had bought and purchased with his bloud , to make them and others , in respect of this dreadfull circumstance , to esteeme and respect the more this Spirituall Iurisdiction ouer soules : which Iurisdiction Christ also himself , God and man , did exercise in person vpon earth , wholie seperated from the vse of all Temporall Iurisdiction , notwithstanding he was Lord of all , as the same Deuines out of the Ghospell doe proue . S●ewing therby and by the long continuance of his Church , without the said Temporall Authoritie , that Spirituall Iurisdiction is wholy independent therof , and vtterlie distinct by her owne nature . 7. And albeit Ciuill Power and Iurisdiction be of Gods institution also , and duelie to be honoured in his Church and Christian common wealth , as before wee haue shewed ; yet doe they teach the same to be far otherwise deriued , and receiued from God , then is Spirituall Power , that is to saie , not immediatlie by Gods owne deliuerie therof , but mediatlie rather , to witt by meditation of the law of nature , and nations . For by the law of nature , God ●ath ordeined that there should be politicall gouernment , for that otherwise no multitude could be preserued , which the law of nations assuming , hath transferred that gouernment vnto one , or more , according to the particular formes therof , as Monarchie , Aristocracy or Democracy or mixt : wherin is to be noted , that the ordination of God by the law of nature , doth giue politicall Power vnto the multitude immediately , and by them mediately to one , or more , as hath been said . But Spirituall Power Christ gaue immediatly , and by himself , to the Apostles , and their Successors , by these words , whatsoeuer you shall bind vpon earth ; the same s●all be bound in heauen . And whatsoeuer you shall loose one earth , shall be loosed in heauen . Wherby you se a generall large commission , graunted to them of binding , & loosing ; Quaecunque , whatsoeuer , without exception . And the like to S. Peter , as head and chiefe , by speciall power and commission of those words . Pasce oues meas , Pasce agnos meos . Feed my sheep , feed my lambs , thryse repeated : signifying therby the Preheminence , and Primacy of his Pastorall Authoritie in Gods Church , as the auncient Fathers haue allwayes vnderstood the same . For that to the office of Supreame feedinge , is required also all other authoritie necessarie to gouerne , direct , commaund , restraine , and punish in like manner , when need requireth . 8. About which point , is to be obserued and considered attent●uelie ( say Catholike Deuines , and most learned lawyers ) that when God almightie giueth any office ; he giueth also sufficient Power , and Authoritie , euery way to execute that office , as when he giueth the office of a King , or temporal Magistrate , for good of the Common-wealth , he giueth Authoritie therwith , not onlie to direct , command , and instruct ; but to punish , and compell also , yea , and to extirpate , and cut of those ( when need is ) that are rebellions , or otherwise deserue that punishment . And the like is to be obserued in Spirituall Power , and Iurisdiction , according to which the Ciuil law saith . Cui Iurisdictio data est , ea quoque concessa esse intelliguntur , sine quibus Iurisdictio expleri non potuit : To whosoeuer iurisdiction is giuen , to him also must we vnderstand to be graunted all those thinges , without which his Iurisdiction cannot be fulfilled . And the Canon law to the same effect . Iurisdictio , nullius videretur esse momenti , si coërcionem aliquam non haberet : Iurisdiction would seeme to be of no moment , if it had not some power to compell . And finally it is a general rule giuen in the said Canon law ; that when anie cause is committed to anie man , he is vnderstood to receiue also ful authoritie , in al matters belonging to that cause . 9. Out of all which , is deduced , that for so much , as Christ our Sauiour , God , and Man , hauing purchased to him felfe , by the price of his owne blood , a most deerlie beloued Church , and committed the same as S. Paul saith to be gouerned by his Apostles , and Bishops their successours , vnto the worlds end ; it must needs follow , that he hath indowed the same Church with sufficient spirituall Authoritie , both directiue , and coactiue , to that end , for gouerning our soules , no lesse than he hath done the temporal Cōmonwealth for affaires of the body . Nay much more , by how much greater the importance is of the one , than of the other , as before hath been said . 10. If you aske me yet more particularlie , where and how , by what commission , and to whom , Christ our Sauiour left this high Spiritual Power in his Church : what it is , and wherin it consisteth ? I answere first to the last , that it consisteth ( as often hath been said ) in guiding our soules in this world , to euerlasting saluation in the next : Which thinge , for that principallie it dependeth of this , that we auoide sinnes in this life ; or if we committ them , that they be pardoned vs , or corrected by this Power ; Christ our Sauiour , doth most aptlie giue and describe the same Power , by the words of binding , or loosing sinnes . And therefore , in the foresaid place alleadged , out of S. Matthew his Ghospel , he giueth the said commission , as you haue heard . VVhatsoeuer you shal binde , or loose vpon earth , shal be bound or loosed in heauen . Wherby the Church of God , hath allwaies vnderstood , full authoritie of Iudicature , to haue been giuen to the Apostles , and their successors , to discerne , iudge , binde or loose in all things belonging to this end of directing soules . 11. Truth it is , that diuers learned deuines , are of opinion , that in these places , Christ did but promise to his Apostles to giue them this high iudiciall authoritie in his Church , when by his death , and resurrection , it should be founded . And that the actuall performance of this promise was made vnto them in the 20. if S. Iohns ghospell , where Christ said vnto them . Sicut misit me pater , & ego mitto vos . As my father sent me so I doe send you ; and then presentlie breathing vpon then he addeth . Receiue the Holie-ghost : whose sinnes you shall forgiue , they are forgiuen vnto them , and whose you shal retaine , they are retained . Where we se , that Christ speaketh now in the present tense , they are forgiuen , and they are retained : and not in the future , as before in the place of S. Matthew his ghospell . And we must note that those words of our Sauiour ( As my father sent mee , so I doe send you . ) are vnderstood by auncient Doctors , of Authoritie , as though he had said , that with the same power , & authoritie , that my father sent mee into this world , to gather , & gouerne my Church , I doe also send you ; that is to saie , withall spirituall power , necessarie to your office , and charge , both on earth , and in heanen . And therfore he saith in S. Matthew his Ghospell : That whatsoeuer they shall binde , or loose vpon earth , ( which are the Acts of high iudges ) shall be loosed or bound in heauen . 12. And to S. Peter in like manner , as Cheif of the rest , the promise of his Supreame , and singular power ( besides the other , which out of the former general commission , he receiued with the rest of the Apostles ) was made vnto him , first in S. Matthews ghospell , when Christ said , Thou art Peter , ( which signifieth a stone , or rocke ) and vpon this rock will I build my Church , and will giue vnto thee the keies of the Kingdome of heauen . &c. Which he perfourmed afterward , in the 21. chapter of S. Iohn : after his resurrection , when asking him three times of his loue towards him , he as manie times gaue him cōmission of high-pastor ouer his flocke . Pasce oues meas , pasce agnos meos . &c. 13. This Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall Power then which Christ hath left for gouerning his Church , though it be to be exercised heere vpon earth , and by men ; yet is it iustlie called by holie fathers , not humane Power , but diuine , and heauenlie , both for that , it was giuen immediatelie , and exercised also by Christ himself , that came from heauen , and for that it tendeth to heauen , and is approued in heauen ; yea to vse the Phrase of S. Chrisostome , and other Fathers , directeth and commaundeth the verie Tribunall of heauen ; which heauenlie Power on earth , S. Paul , as an Apostle extraordinary , hauing extraordinarilie also receiued , not by man , but by Iesus Christ as himself doth signifie , did so much glorie of , as he wrote to the Corinthians . If I should glorie some what of our Power , which Christ hath giuen vs to edification , and not to destruction I would not blush at it . And a litle before in the same Chapter , he saith . Nam arma militiae nostrae non carnalia sunt , sed potentia Deo. &c. For the armour of our warrfare , are not carnall or wordlie armes , but are power from God. In promptu habentes , vlcisci omnem inobedientiam . &c. hauing speedy means to reuenge all inobedience . And yet further to the said Corinthians within two Chapters after . Quoniam si venero iterum , non parcam . If I come vnto you againe , I will not spare to punish . And a little after in the same place . Ideo absens scribo , vt non durius agam , secundum potestatem , quam Dominus dedit mihi . I doe write vnto you absent , to the end that when I shall come , and be present with you , I be not forced to deale more roughly according to the Power , which our Lord hath giuen me . 14. Beholde the dreadfull Spirituall Power , which S. Paul affirmeth to be giuen to him by Christ , as well to punish , as to instruct and direct : and according to this Power , he writeth againe to the said Corinthians . Quid vultis ? in virga veniam ad vos , an in charitate & spiritu mansuetudinis ? what will you haue mee doe ; shall I come vnto you in the power of the rodd , or in loue , and spirit of mildnes ? As who would saie , choose which you will. And note that heer the Power of correction giuen to the Apostles , & their successours , is called the rodd in respect of strikinge , as before in the words of Christ , it was called the key of the kingdome of heauen , and the power , of binding , and loosing sinnes , in regard of the dreadfull shutting or opening heauen , or hell gates vnto vs. And accordinge to this power S. Paul afterward exercised iudgment , & gaue sentence in a certaine grieuous case of Incest among the said Corinthians in these words . Ego autem absens corpore , praesens autem spiritu iam iudicani , vt praesens , eum qui sic operatus est . I though absent in body yet present with you in spirit , haue giuen iudgment vpon him that hath committed this sinne , as though I were present in body . And the same Apostle writinge to his scholler Timothie doth tell of another sentence , and iudgment pronounced by him , vpon Hymenaeus and Alexander two seditions and hereticall men ; quos tradidi Sathanae . ( saith he ) whome I haue deliuered ouer to Sathan : which is as much to saie , as I haue excommunicated , & cut them of from the Church of God , wherby they come to be no more in the protection of Christ , but in the power , and protection of Sathan . 15. And the like Spirituall Iudgment was exercised by S. Peter , vpon Simon Magus when he said vnto him , Non est tibi pars , neque sors in sermone isto . Thou hast no parte nor participation with vs in this word of God which we preach . By which words of S. Peter , the 30. Canon of the Apostles doth affime , Simon Magus to haue bene excommunicated and cut of from the number of Christians and from all spirituall benefit belonging thervnto . Which ( if we beleue S. Augustine ) was a more greiuous and dreadfull punishment , than if he had been sentenced , to be burned vvith fire , drowned vvith vvater , or pearced through vvith a temporall sworde . In consideration wherof , holie S. Chrysostome cryed out in his time . Nemo contemnat vinculae Ecclesiastica , non enim homo est qui ligat , sed Christus qui nobis hant potestatem dedit . Oh let no man contemne the chaines , which ecclesiasticall power laieth vpon him , ( in bindinge , or loosinge his sinnes ) for it is not man that bindeth , but Christ which hath giuen vnto vs ( that are Gouernours of his Church ) this power . And S. Augustine againe . Alligatur bomo amarius , & infaelicius Ecclesia clauibus , quam quibuslibet grauissimis , & durissimis ferreis , vel adamantini● nexibus . A man is bound more bitterlie , & miserably by the keyes of the Church , than by any most greiuous sharpe iron , or adamāt bounds . Wherof the holy Martyr and Bishop S. Cyprian gaue the reason , before them both , sayinge : That in the old law , vvhich vvas Carnall , God gaue cōmaundement , that such as were rebellious to their Priests , and Iudges , should be slaine vvith the sword : But now in the lavv of Christ that is Spirituall , proude and disobedient men , are commaunded to be slaine eternallie vvith the spirituall svvord , vvhich is , their castinge out from the Church out of vvhich they cannot haue life . 16. This then is the Spirituall , and Ecclesiasticall dreadfull Power , which Christ hath planted in his Church , by his owne immediate commission for gouerninge the same , in the affaires of our soules , vnto the worlds end . And heere we may note also , that the same is double , or of two sortes : The one internall , concerning mans conscience onlie by loosinge or bindinge sinnes , by means of Sacraments . The other is external Iurisdiction , in hearing , iudging , and determining causes in publicke affaires , that doe fall out in the Church , tending to the same end ; and this distinction is founded in the words of Christ himself , as well for binding and loosing of sinnes in respect of our conscience , as also in that he addeth ; Si ecclesiam non audierit , sit tibi tanquam Ethnicus , & Publicanus . If he heare not the Church , let him be to thee , as a Heathen , or Publican ; that is to say , ( as holy Fathers expound ) let him be excomunicated & cast out from the Church , and then fled and auoided , as one seperated , by the authoritie of the said Church , from all communion and fruite of Christian religion , as much as if he were an Infidell or Publican . Which meaning of our Sauiour , S. Paul well vnderstandinge , said of like men , Auferte malum ex vobisipsis . Take away and seperate the euill from among your selues : which words S. Augustine expoundinge , saith to be as much as if he had said . Hominem malum , & pernicipsum à vobis seperate per excommunicationem ; Doe you seperate from your selues an euill and pernicious man , by excommunication ; which is an act of externall Iurisdiction , called by Canon lawyers Actus sori contentiosi . As to absolue , or retaine sinnes in the Sacrament , are acts of Internall Iurisdiction , appertaininge to sorum conscientiae , the tribunall of conscience . 17. So that as the temporall magistrate for furnishinge of his authoritie , hath Power also to punish temporallie when occasion is offered , and this either in goods , body , or life ; so haue Spirituall Magistrates , also by Christ his appointment , Ecclesiasticall Power , not onlie to teach , exhorte , instruct , and direct , as hath been said , but to punish in like maner by Spirituall Censures much more greiuous , and dreadfull in respect of the life to come , than are the fore named punishments of the ciuill magistrate for this life . Which Censures are three in number , answeringe after a certaine manner , to the former three of the temporall magistrate , and these are accordinge to Catholike diuinitie , and Canons of the Church , Suspension , Interdict , and Excommunication ; which I leaue further to discusse in this place . THE SECOND PART OF THIS CHAPTER , About the Subordination of these two Povvers , the one to the other ; and different Greatnes of them both . §. I. 18. Vpon these and other like considerations then , and premisses , Catholike deuines doe deduce that these two Povvers of Spirituall , and Temporall Iurisdiction , whensoeuer they meet togeather ( as in the Christian Common-wealth they doe ) they are subordinate the one to the other , according to the rule of Aristotle in Philosophie , ( which holdeth also in this case of diuinitie ) that whensoeuer the ends of anie faculties be subordinate , and doe serue the one to the other , there also the faculties themselues are subordinate . And so wheras the end of Spirituall Authoritie is , to direct men to euerlastinge Saluation of their soules , and the end Temporall Gouernment , to procure their temporall prosperitie ; but yet with referment , and subordination to the attainment also of life euerlasting in the next world : it followeth by most certaine consequence , that Temporall Gouernment is subordinate to the spirituall , which is so much the more excellent and eminent , as is an euerlastinge end , aboue a temporall ; our immortall soule , before our corruptible bodyes ; and the Kingdome of heauen , before worldlie prosperitie . 19. Out of which considerations , no doubt did proceed those speeches of ancient and holie Fathers , about the comparison of these two Povvers , Ecclesiasticall , and Temporall , which are founde euery where in their workes , highly preferringe the one before the other , and subiecting the one vnto the other . An me liberè loquentem , aequo animo feretis ? ( saith S. Gregorie Nazianzen to the Emperour ) Nam ves quoque , &c. will you heare me with patience to speake my minde freely vnto you ? Which truelie you ought to doe for so much , as the law of Christ , hath made you subiect to my Power , and to my tribunall . For wee ( Bishops ) haue an Empyre also , and that more excellent , and perfect then yours , except you will saie that spirit is inferiour to flesh , and heauenly things to earthly . But I doubt not , but that you will take in good parte , this my freedome of speach , you being a sacred sheepe of my holie flocke , and a disciple of the great Pastor , rightly instructed by the Holy-ghost , euen from your young years , &c. So Gregorie Nazianzen to the Emperour . 20. And heere we see , what difference this greate Doctor and Father S. Gregorie Nazianzen almost 1300. yeares gone , did put between these two Powers of Kings , and Bishops , Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall dignitie ; euen as much , as between , flesh and spirit , heauen and earth . And the same difference doth S. Chrysostome set downe in his bookes of Priesthood , and elswere . I shall alleadge some place or two out of him , as breifly as I may , that you may see his sense , and iudgement therin : though I would wish the Reader , to peruse the places themselues heere cited , for that they will fullie satisfie him in this matter . 21. First then in his third booke of Priesthood , comparinge the Power of a King with the Power of a Priest he hath these words . Habent quidem & terrestres Principes vinculi potestatem , verum corporum solum , &c. It is true , that earthlie Princes , haue power to binde , but our bodyes onlie : But the bands , which Priests can lay vpon vs , doe touch the soule it self , and reach euen vnto the heauens so far forth as whatsoeuer Priests shall determine heere beneath , that doth God ratifie aboue in heauen , and confirmeth the sentence of his seruants vpon earth . And what is this , ( I pray you ) but that God hath giuen all heauenlie Power vnto them , according to those words of his . VVhose sinnes soeuer you shall retaine they are retained . And what Power , I beseech you , can there be greater then this ? I read that God the Father gaue all manner of Power vnto his Sonne . And I see againe , that God the Sonne hath giuen ouer the self same Power vnto Priests , &c. what a manifest madnes then is it , for any man to despise this Princedome of Priests , without which we cannot possibly be made partakers , either of eternall saluation , or of the good promises of our Sauiour , &c. Quo nomine , sacerdotes non modo plus vereri debemus ; quam vel Principes , vel Reges ; verum etiam maiori honore , quam parentes proprios honorare . In which respect , wee ought to reuerence , & feare Priests more , not only then Princes , and Kings ; but honour them also more , then our owne parents , &c. All these are S. Chrysostomn wordes . 22. And the same Saint , in his Homilies vpon Esay the Prophet , writeth thus . Rex quidem ea quae sunt in terris , sortitu● est , administranda , &c. The King hath receiued the administration , and gouernment of those things that are on the earth . But the Priests authoritie commeth from heauen ; whatsoeuer you shall binde ( saith Christ ) vpon earth , that shall be bound in heauen . To my King , are committed earthlie things , but to me heauenlie ; and when I say , to me I vnderstand a Priest , &c. To the King are committed the bodies , to the Priest the soules : the King can remitt bodily spotts ; but the Priest can take away the spotts of sinne : Maior hic principatus , This principallitie of Priests is greater , then that of Kings . 23. Aud yet further in another Homilie vpon the same Prophet . Sacerdotium principatus est ; ipso etiam regno venerabilius , & maiu● . Ne mihi narres purpuram , &c. Priesthood is a Princedome ; yea more venerable and great then is a Kingdome . Doe not tell mee of the purple , or diademe , or scepter , or golden apparrell of Kings , for these are but shaddowes , and more vaine then flowers at the spring time . Si vis videre descrimen , quantum absit Rex à sacerdote , expende modum potestatis vtrique traditae . If you will see indeed the true difference between them , and how much the King is inferiour to a Priest ; consider the manner of the Power deliuered to them both ; and you shall see the Priests tribunall , much higher then that of the King , who hath receiued onlie the administration of earthly things . Nequè vltra potestatem hanc , quicquam habet pratereà authoritatis . Neither hath he any authoritie , beyond this earthlie Power : But the Priests tribunall is placed in heauen , and hath authoritie to pronounce sentence in heauenlie affaires . And who affirmeth this ? The King of heauen himself , who saith , vvhatsoeuer you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heauen , and vvhatsoeuer you shal loose , shall bee loosed . Heer you see heauen , to take principall authority of iudging from earth , for that the Iudge sitteth on earth , and our Lord followeth his feruant : so as whatsoeuer the said seruant shall iudge heere beneath , that will his maister allow in heauen . So S. Chrysostome . 24. And consider heere ( good Reader ) that this holie Father and Doctor , wrote all this in Constantinople , where the Emperour was present , and many Courtyers togeather with the Empresse herself , auerted from him for his seueritie of discipline , and ready to note and take aduauntage against any thinge that he should say . And yet was this doctrine neuer obiected against him , as iniurious to the Emperour , or to his Emperiall crowne : notwithstanding ( as you see ) he speaketh plainlie , both about the Subordination of temporall and spirituall Povver , the one to the other ; as also that the Emperour had the one , and not the other . And if the same Father should preach this doctrine at Paules Crosse in these our daies , he would be hissed out , and be called into question of treason by the tenor of M. Attorneyes booke ; so far are our tymes differēt from these . But God & his truth are alwayes one . 25. And to this very same effect might I alleadg heere the sayings , and doings of diuers other auncient Fathers and Bishops , ( for all were of one spirit , opinion , and faith in this behalfe ) but it would bee ouerlonge ; yet S. Ambrose I cannot omitt , who in two or three occasiōs with the Christian Emperours of his time , did expresse most manifestly , the iudgement of the Catholike Church in those daies . The first wherof was with Valentinian the the younger , who being induced by the Empresse Iustina to commaund S. Ambrose Bishop of Millaine to dispute with AuxentiuS the Arrian Bishop , and other of his Sect , before the Emperour , and his Counsellours , and whole courte in his pallace , he refused the same , and gaue his reasons to the said Emperour in a seuerall booke which beginneth thus . Clementissimo Imperatori & Beatissimo Augusto Valentiniario , Ambrosius Episcopus , &c. and then he setteth downe how the Tribune Dalmatius with a publike Notarie did cite him in the Emperours name , to come to that conference , or disputation , and what he answered vnto him , which was in these words . I answered ( saith he ) that which your Father of glorious memorie ( Vaelentinian the elder ) not only answered in speach vpon like occasion , but confirmed also by his lawes , that in causes belonging to faith , Priests only should iudge of Priests : Yea further also that if a Bishop should bee called in question for his manners , this iudgment likewise should appertaine vnto Bishops : And who then of vs , doe answere more peruerslie ? wee , that would haue you like your Father , or they that would haue you vnlike him , &c. Quando audisti , Clementissime Imperator , laicos in causa fidei de Episcopo iudicasse . When haue you euer heard , most Clement Emperour , that lay men did iudge Bishops in matters of faith . Certè si vel scripturaerum seriem diuinarum , vel vetera tempora retractemus , quis est qui abnuat in causa fidei , ( in causa , inquam , fidei ) Episcopos solere de Imperatoribus Christianis , non Imperatores de Episcopis indicare . Truly if we will consider , either the whole course of diuine scriptures , or the vse of auncient times , no man can deny , but that in matrers of faith ( I say in matters of faith ) Bishops were wont to iudge of Christian Emperours , and not Emperours of Bishops . Eris , Deo sauente etiam senectutis maturitate prouectior , & tunc de hoc censebis qualis ille Episcopus sit , qui laicu ius sacerdotale substernit , Pater nunc , vir maturioris aeui dicebat , Non est meum iudicare inter Episcopos ; Tua nunc dicet Clementia ; Ego debeo iudicare ? You shall be , by Gods fauour , by the maturitie of old age ( you being now in your youth ) better informed , and then you will be able to iudge better of this point , what manner of Bishop he is to be accounted , that subiecteth the right of Priestdome to laie men , your Father being a man of riper yeares , said , It belongeth not to me to be Iudge amongst Bishops ; And will your Clemencie say now , that you ought to be their Iudge ? so S. Ambrose in this occasion . 27. The next yeare after with the same Valentinian , who by instigation of the said Arrians , fauoured by Iustina the Empresse , decreed , that a Church in Millaine should be giuen vnto them , S. Ambrose resistinge the same , had a notable combat , which besides other Authors , himself setteth downe at large in a certaine epistle to his sister Marcellina , where shewing the solemne denuntiation of the Emperours Decree vnto him , with his answere , he saith . Conuenerunt me primò viri comites Consistoriani , &c. First , there came vnto me certaine Earles of the Court to commaund me to deliuer the Church , &c. I answered that which belongeth to a man of my order , that the Church could not be giuen vp by a Priest , &c. Ego mansi in munere , missam faecere caepi , dum ●ffero , raptum cognout , &c. I continued on in my Priestlie function , I began to say masse , and whilest I was offering , I vnderstood that one of the aduersarie parte , was taken by the people , I began bitterlie to weep , and beseech God in my oblation ; that he would help , that no bloud might be shed in this cause of the Church ; but that my bloud only , if it were his holie will , might bee shed not only for saftie of the people , but also for the wicked sorte themselues . &c. The Emperours Earles and Tribunes vrged me againe , that I should deliuer the Church sayinge . Imperatorem iure suo vti , eò quòd in potestate eius essent omnia . Respondi quae diuina sunt , Imperatoriae popotestaeti non esse subiectae , &c. They said that the Emperour did but vse this owne right , and due authoritie , for that all was in his power . I answered that those things that were diuine , & belōged to God , are not subiect to the Emperours power . So S. Ambrose for defence of this his particular Church against the Emperours commaundement , which notwithstanding was but a materiall Church as you see ; and yet he said the cause vvas diuine and not subiect to the Emperors power ; but to a higher authoritie of the clergie . 27. And yet further when the said Tribunes , sent by the Emperour required to haue certaine Church-vessels deliuered vnto them . S. Ambrose writeth thus . Cum esset propositum , vt Ecclesiae vasa iam traderenpius hoc responsi reddidi , &c. when it was proposed vnto me by the Emperours officers , that we should presently deliuer vp the vessels of the Church ( behold Church-vessels of price in those daies ) I gaue this answere : that if anie things of mine were demaunded , either land , or house , or gold , or syluer , or anie other things that lay in my power to giue , I would willinglie offer the same ; but from the Church of God I could take nothing away , nor deliuer that which I had receiued to be kept . And that in this point I did respect the health principally of the Emperours soule : for that it was not expedient for me to deliuer the said Vessels , nor for him to receiue them : And that he should take in good parte , the speach of a free Priest. If the Emperour did loue himself , he should doe well to cease from offeringe iniurie to Christ. So he . And what would he haue said ( thinke you ) or answered , if he had been in our English Parliament , when K. Henry the 8. both demaunded , and obtained not onlie the Vessels of many hundred Churches , but the lands , liuings , houses , and Churches also themselues which he pulled downe , & equalled with the ground , or from sacred , translated them to prophane vses . 28. But let vs heare the same Doctor and Father , handling this subiect more cleerly in another place , to witt , in a publike sermon to the people , wherin he instructeth them of the true nature , and subordination of these two Powers , Spirituall , and Temporall , Ecclesiasticall and Imperiall . Soluimus ( saith he ) quae sunt Caesaris , Caesari ; & quae sunt Dei , Deo. &c. we doe pay vnto Caesar those things , that belong to Caesar , and we giue vnto God , the things that appertaine vnto him . Is it Caesars tribute that is demaunded ? we deny it not . Is it the Church of God ? It ought not to be giuen vp to Caesar. For that the Temple of God , cannot be the right of Caesar , which we speake to the Emperours honour , for what is more honorable vnto him , then that he being an Emperour , be called a child of the Church ? which when it is said , it is spoken without sinne , and to his grace , for that a good Emperour is within the Church , but not aboue the Church , and he seeketh rather help of the Church , than refuseth the same ; this as we speake in humilitie , so with constancie wee freelie affirme it . And albeit some doe heere threaten vs fire , sword , and exile , yet we being Christs seruaunts haue learned not to feare such things , and him that feareth not , no threats can daunt . 29. And finallie not to be longer in this matter , the same good Bishop some few years after , hauing occasion to reprehend , and correct by his Ecclesiasticall Power and Iurisdiction , the famous Emperour Theodosius the Great , he failed not to vse the same , and therby shewed the eminency of his iurisdiction aboue the other . The occasion was , for that the said good Emperour had suffered himself , by the incitation of certaine of his courte about him , to permit the sackage , or spoile of the Citty of Thessolonica , for certaine howers to his souldiars , in reuenge or chastisement of a certaine disorder committed by them , but the said sackage and massacre proceedinge further vpon furie of souldiars , then the Emperours meaninge was , and many thousands of innocent people slaine . S. Ambrose wrote first an earnest epistle to the said Emperour , laying before him , the grieuousnes of his sinne , and exhortinge him to doe pennance ; Wherin he ; when the Emperour performed not so much as hee desired , proceeded further . And when the Emperour came one day to the Church , the foresaid Bishop went forth , and met him without the Church dore , forbidding him to enter therin , as vnworthy the communion of Christian faithfull people , vntill he had done sufficient pennance for his sinne , which the good Emperour meeklie obaied ; as he did afterward also , when he comminge to the Church to be reconciled , and hauing made his offring , he remained within the chauncell amonge the Priests . But S. Ambrose sending vnto him his Deacon , signified , that , that place was only for Priests and Clergie men , and therfore he should departe forth into the body of the Church amonst lay men , adding this sentence . Purpurae Imperatores , non sacerdotes efficit . Purple robes make Emperours , but not Priests . Which admonition ( saith Theodorete ) the most faithfull Emperour tooke in good parte , and said , that he did not stay vvithin the chauncell , vpon any presumption , but for that he had learned that custome in Constantinople : and therefore gaue him thankes also , for this wholsome admonition . So he . 30 But all which is seene what eminency of Spirituall Authoritie , was ascribed by these holy Fathers and Doctors , to Bishops Priests , and Clergie-men , aboue Kings and Emperours ; and I might adde much more out of them to the same effect for confutation of M. Attorneys Paradox , but that I am to reserue diuers things , to the fourth chapter of this booke , where I must answere his principall argument ; That vvhosoeuer ascribeth not all supreame power to Princes , as well in Ecclesiasticall as Temporall matters , maketh them no complete monarches : But these holy Fathers of the auncient primitiue Church were of another iudgement , as you see . 31. Wherfore this being so , that in the Church , & Common-wealth of Christ , though Kings and Emperours be Supreame in temporall Authoritie , and both honour , obedience , and tribute due vnto them in their degree , as Christ and his Apostles doe teach : yet , that in spirituall , and Ecclesiasticall matters , concerning the soule , Priests and Bishops are more eminent in Authoritie . Hence it was deduced , that for combininge these two Powers , and Authoritie togeather in peace and vnion , and due subordination in the Christian Common wealth , the one hauinge need of the other ( for that neither the temporall partie can saue their soules , without the spirituall function ; neither the Ecclesiasticall State be defended without the temporal sword ) hence ( I say ) , it proceeded that presentlie after the entrance of Constantine the Emperour into the Church , wherby Temporall , & Spirituall Power were to be conioyned togeather , and exercised in one body ( though in different tribunalls , & distinct affaires ) seuerall laws , and ordinances were set downe , and agreed vpon , how they should liue togeather in peace , and concord , and dutifull respect the one to the other : the Ecclesiasticall partie , by an auncient name , euen from the Apostles time downwards , being called the Cleargie , which signifieth the Lott , or peculiar in heritance of God himself ; and the temporall partie named the Laity , which importeth as much as the rest of the people , besides the Cleargie . 32. These two parties I say , are directed by most anncient laws both diuine , and humane how to liue togeather in vnion , & due subordination , giuing to each power , and gouernment , that which is due to each other , especiallie in these points following , which Catholike deuines , and Canon-lawyers doe larglie handle : But I shall breiflie touch the sunne onlie in this place so far , is it may appertaine to better decision of this our controuersie . Noting first by the way for the Reader his better aduertisement , that these two Powers of Spirituall , and Temporall Iurisdiction , being different ( as hath been said ) and hauing so different ends , and obiects ; and proceeding so differentlie from God , by different means and manners ; and that they may be separated , and remaine seuerally and alone in different subiects , as they did for diuers ages togeather in the primitiue Church . All this ( I saie ) being so , it followeth that it is no good argument , but rather a manifest fallacie , to inferre the one of the other , as to saie , he hath spiritual Iurisdiction ouer me , and therfore also temporall ; which followeth not , and much lesse the contrarie ; he hath temporall Authoritie ouer any ergo spiritual also . And least of all , as M. Atorney argueth euery-where . A Prince or Monarch hath supreame authoritie temporal , ergo also spirituall ; for that the one may be without the other , as comming downe from one origen , by different means , and to different ends , as before hath been declared . Now then let vs passe to the decisions aboue mencioned for due Subordination in these two Powers . THE THIRD PART OF THIS CHAPTER , Shewing how these two Povvers , and Iurisdictions , may stand well togeather in agreement , peace and vnion . 4. II. 33. The first affertion both of Deuines , and Canonists is , that notwithstanding the former Prerogatiues of Spirituall Power aboue Temporall ; yet when they are conioyned in one Common-wealth ( as they haue been in the Catholike Church for these thirteene hundred years at least , since the Conuersion of Constantine the Emperour ) the Cleargie , and Ecclesiasticall persons of euerie Realme , as members of that Common-wealth , are subiect vnto the Emperour , King , or other head of that Ciuill and politicke body , or Common-wealth in al temporall laws , and ordinances , not contrary to Gods law , nor the Cannons of holie Church ; and are punishable for the same , though not in temporall courts , but spirituall , as after ward in the third assertion shall be declared . As for example ; when the Ciuill magistrate appointeth things to be solde at such , or such price : that no man goe by night with armes : or carry out cōmodities of the Realme without licence , and the like : 1 cleargie men as Cittizens of the Common-wealth are subiect also vnto these laws which are made for direction of of the Common-wealth , to peace , aboundance , and prosperitie : and consequentlie , are to be obserued also by Bishops , Priests , and Cleargie-men . 34. And in this sense , are to be vnderstood the words , both of our Sauiour , and his Apostles , when they ordaine all obedience to be exhibited by all Christians to their temporall Princes , without exception of anie , yea though they were euill men or infidells . AS namely where S. Paul saith . Omnia anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit . Let euery soule be subiect to higher powers , which S. Peter expoundeth , siuè Regi , siuè Ducibus , &c. Whether it be to Kings , Dukes ; and the like . Vpon which place to S. Paul , the holie Doctor S. Chrysostome inferreth that politicall , and temporall laws , are not abrogated by the ghospell , but that both Priests , and monkes , are bound to obey the same in temporall affairs . And Valentinian the good Christian Emperour , in a certaine Epistle of his , to the Bishops of Asia aboue 12. hundred years gone , said● that good Bishops doe obey , not only the laws of God , but of Kings likewise . Which Pope Nicolas the first , writing to Michaell the Emperour doth proue , when he saith , that Christian Emperours doe need Bishops for the attaining of euerlasting life ; But that Bishops doe need Kings , and Emperours onlie , to vse their laws , for their direction in temporall affaires . And finally the matter is cleer not onlie , by the testimonie , and practise of the primitiue Church ( say our Deuines ) but also by reason it selfe . For that if any sorte of people should liue in a Common-wealth , and not obserue the laws therof , it would be a perturbation to the whole . And for that these Ciuill laws , albeit their immediate end be temporall good ; yet may the obseruation therof be referred also to a higher spirituall end by good men , and therfore are all good subiects bound to obey them . And this for the first point . 35. The second is , that in causes meere Ecclesiasticall , and Spirituall , which appertaine to Religion , Faith , Sacraments , holie Orders , and the like , and are to be determined out of the ghospell , Councells , Canons , and Doctors of the Church : In all these affaires Catholike deuines holde , that Ecclesiasticall persons , are no way subiect to temporall Princes , for the reasons before alleadged of preheminēcy of Spiritual Power , 2 aboue Temporal in these affaires . In respect wherof the holie auncient Bishops did stand with Christian Emperours , and auerre their Authoritie to be aboue the others , as before out of S. Gregorie Nazianzen , S. Ambrose S. Chrisostome and others you haue heard declared . So as heere you se a mutuall Subordination of Preists to Princes , in Ciuill and temporall matters , and of Princes to Preists and Bishops , in spirituall affaires : which according to S. Gregorie Nazianzen his comparison before mencioned , may thus be expressed ; that the soule in matters of this life , though with some griefe and regreate of spirit in good men , is bound to follow the direction , and law of the body for health , strength , and other such corporall commodities ; and the body in matters of life euerlasting , must be content to follow the soule , and direction of spirit , and so is bound to doe , though with repugnance oftentimes of the flesh , as in fasting , praying , pennance , & other such like exercise . And wheresoeuer these two mutuall subordinations be wel obserued ; there the Common wealth goeth forward wel , and prosperouslie ; and contrarywise where the said subordination is neglected or perturbed , there all goeth out of order and ioynt . 36. But now there remaineth a third point of further moderation , between these two Powers , which is accordinge to our deuines , and Canon-lawyers ; 3 That albeit Ecclesiastical men be subiect to the obseruation of temporall laws ; as before is said ; yet are as well their persons , as their goods free , and exempted , from the temporall magistrate , and his tribunalls , euen in those causes also : in so much , that if Cleargie men doe offend against the laws of the Common-wealth , they are to be iudged , and condemned by Ecclesiasticall iudges , in the Courts , and tribunals of their prelats , and afterward to be deliuered to secular power , to inflict the decreed punishmēt vpon them , which they shall be found worthie of . Their goods also both Ecclesiasticall , and temporall , are exempted from all secular power , and their impositions , or exactions , by auncient Decrees and Constitutions , as well of the Church , as of old Christian Emperours in honorem Cleri in honour of the Cleargy , to vse the auncient word . And as for Ecclesiasticall Constitutions to this effect made as well by generall Councells as particular Popes , euen downe from the primitiue Church , sufficient testimonies , or rather aboundant are extant , and may be seen collected togeather by Gratian , and others in the sixt Booke of Decretalls , especially out of two Lateran Generall Councells and manie other particular decrees , Laws , and Ordinances Ecclesiasticall , tending to this purpose . And many ages before this , the same exemptions be recorded , especially for the immunitie of their persons from secular power , and tribunals , as in the Councel of Calcedon , and 9. Canon : The Councel Agathense , and 32. Canon , and the third Councel of Carthage , wherin S. Augustine himself was present , and diuerse other Councels . 37. And there doe not want many learned deuines , who are of opinion , that this exemption of Ecclesiastical persons , and their goods , is not onlie Iuris humani Ecclesiastici , by positiue and humane Ecclesiasticall laws : 4 But Iuris diuini also ; that is to saie , by right of diuine law in a certaine sorte , which is thus to bee vnderstood ; That albeit God hath not expreslie commaunded it in the written law of Scripture , yet is it conforme both to the law of nature , which is also Gods law ; as likewise it may be deduced , & inferred from exāples recorded in Scripture , vnder the old Testamēt , that God would haue this honour of exemption , and immunitie in temporall things to be exhibited to his Cleargy . And therfore we doe reade in Genesis that Ioseph the Patriarch in the law of Nature , did exempt the Priests of the Egyptians , from all temporall tributes . And in the bookes of Esdras we read , that Artaxerxes King of the Persians , out of the same law of Nature , did make free also the Priests of Israell . And that the very Gentiles did the same to their Priests out of the same law , and instinct of Nature , is euident out of Aristotle in his second booke Oeconomicorum . And of Caesar in his sixt booke De bello Gallico . And out of Plutarch in the life of Camillus , and other Pagan writers . And in the written law we read , as well in Exodus , as in the booke of Numbers , That God did often affirme , that he would haue the order of Leuites to be his , and to be freelie giuen , and made subiect onlie to Aaron their high Priest , and to paye no tribute . Out of which is inferred , that if God in the law of Nature , and of Moyses , would haue Priests , and Leuites to be free in their persons , & goods , from temporall exactions ; much more may it be presumed , that he will haue it so in the new Law of the Ghospel , where to vse the words of S. Leo. Et Ordo clarior Leuitarum , & dignit as amplior seniorum , & sacratior vnctio sacerdotum , &c. The order of Leuites is more eminent , and the dignitie of elders more excellent , and the annointing of Priests more sacred and holy among Christians , then they were among the Iewes . And thus much of Ecclesiasticall Laws , for exemption of the Cleargie . 5 38. But now vpon the very self same Considerations , temporall Princes also comming to be Christians , did voluntarily consume , & establish by their politicall laws , the same exemptions , as first of all , our first Christian Emperour Constantine the Greate , as soone as he came to receiue that Grace , and light of the ghospell , did vpon his singular deuotion , make al the Ecclesiastical persons , immunes à communibus Reipublicae oneribus . Free from al publicke charges , and burthens of the Common-wealth , which laye men did vnder goe ; as by his epistle sett downe by Eusebius is cleere . And the same example did other Christian Emperours follow after him , as may appeere by diuers laws , as well in the Code of Theedosius , as also of Iustinian . And the same doth S. Hi●rome signifie to haue been in vse in his daies , and S. Ambrose also in his , so much as appertaineth to the freedome of their persons ; though for their lands , and possessions , he saith . Agri Ecclesiae soln●nt tributum . That the lands of the Church did paie a certaine tribute at that tyme ; which may be vnderstood in the respect of the Emperours publicke necessitie through warrs ; vpon which or like due cōsiderations , Clergie men haue all waies been ready and ought to be , to contribute willinglie , and gratefully according to their abilities , towards the publike charges of their temporall Princes affaires ; notwithstanding their exemptions by law , and iustice . 39. Particular Kings and Princes in like manner vpon their deuotions , and to the imitation of their foresaid good Emperours , haue by their particular lawes in euery Christian countrey confirmed the franquises , freedomes , and immunities of the Church and Cleargie : and perhaps in no one nation mor● throughout Christendome , than in our English Realme , whether we consider times either before the Conquest , or after : And before the Conquest it may be seen by the collectiō of old English lawes of euery Kingdome , sett forth by K. Edgar , and K. Edward the Confessor ; 6 and after the Conquest by the Co●querour himse● , as after shall be shewed ; And after him againe by the very first Statutes , that are extant in Print , namelie , from the great Charter made by K. Henry the third in the 9. yeare of his Raigne , and the articles of the Cleargie established in the 9. yeare , of K. Edward the second in the fauour of the said Cleargie ; the said great Charter being reiterated and ratified , in most of the insuing Parlaments for authorizing , and establishinge the foresaid exemptions , and priuiledges of Clergie-men , which were from time to time by al our Kings confirmed ( as afterward shall more largely and perticularly be proued ) vntill the later times of K. Henry the eight . 40. Now then , matters standing thus , and the Church in euery countrey throughout Christendome being in possession of these liberties , freedomes , and immunities , for their persons , and goods , and acknowledging for their supreame superiour in Spirituall Power , and Iurisdiction , the Bishop of Rome , and their temporall Kings in Ciuill , and temporall matters : there grew in processe of time , many difficulties , and entanglements , about the execution , and subordination of these two Iurisdictions Temporall , and Spiritual the one to th' other , sometimes by abuse , passiō , or indiscretiō of some vnder-officers of these two supreame powers , & tribunals within our land ; ech side seeking to incroach vpon the other , or at leastwise not to be content with their owne limits , For as between the spirit , and flesh in this life , ( to vse againe S. Gregorie Nazianzens similitude ) there is some continuall strife , and struglinge ; 7 so hath it been allwayes in a certaine sorte between these two powers of Spirituall and Temporall Iurisdiction , or at leastwise in the exercise therof , especially as riches , & temporalityes grew more in the Clergie ; and therby gaue matter of enuy , and emulation ; and lesse deuotion to the laytie towards them ; in so much , that at length for auoidinge worse inconueniences , limitations , conditions , concordates , and transactions , were made and brought into vse , how far the execution of ech parties authoritie should be extēded in certaine inferiour things , that might seeme either mixt , or doubtful , as by many examples , both in France , Spaine , Sicily , Naples , Flaunders , England , and other countreys may be declared : Whervpon notwithstanding daylie wee see sundry difficulties , sutes , and controuersies to arise . 41. Some States also , and Catholike Kingdomes , haue made certaine Decrees , or Restraints at sometimes de facto ( whether rightfully or noe , I will not now dispute ) for preuentinge , and remedyinge some pretended inconueniences , in the exercise of certaine points of the Popes Authority within their said Realmes , Some other also pretend to haue done the same with indult , consent , transaction , or conuiuency of the Pope himself . But none of all these ( which is the mayne pointe ) did euer deny , or call in question the said Authoritie it self , as after shall appeare ; but rather did many wayes acknowledge , and confesse the same ; and of this kind of Restrictions , or Interpretations , are the most part of these few peeces of Decrees , and Statutes , Customes , Laws , or Ordinances , that M. Attorney doth alleadge , which make nothing at all for the proofe of his mayne question , that our English Kings before and after the Conquest , did take vpon themselues supreame Spirituall Authoritie , as deriued from the Right of their Crowne : nay rather they make fully against him , for that the very manner of making these restraintes , first by way of supplication to the Popes themselues ( as after shall be shewed ) and then by domesticall ordinances , doth well declare what opinion the said Princes had of that power to be in the said Popes , & not in themselues . And this is so much as needeth to be said in this place for a generall light to the whole matter . Now shall we passe ouer , to treat of the particular occasion , wherevpon M. Attorney thought good , to ground his whole discourse of Q. Elizabethes Ecclesiasticall Authoritie , as presently shall be declared . THE PARTICVLAR STATE OF THE CONTROVERSY VVith M. Attorney , concerning the late Queens Ecclesiasticall Povver , by the auncient laws of England , deduced out of the case of one Robert Caudery Clerke . CHAP. III. MAister Attorney for preamble or entrance , to his designed Argument against recusant Catholicks ( for that to be his purpose , the end of his booke declareth ) he setteth down a pittifull case of one Robert Caudery Clerke , depriued of his benefice , or parsonage of North-looffennam in Ruland-shire , by the Bishop of London , as high Commissioner , with consent of some of his associates , authorized in Causes Ecclesiastical by a Commission of the late Queene , graunted by her letters Patents the nynth day of December , in the 26. yeare of her Raigne . I doe call the case pittifull , not so much in respect of the poore man depriued and vexed , as after shall appeare , but much more of the publike partiality appearing to haue been vsed against him , by sway of the tyme , and by such men , as occupied the place of Iustice. You shall heare how the Case passed , and iudge therof your selues . 2. This Caudery in the Terme of S. Hilary ( saith M. Attorney ) in the 33. yeare of the raigne of Q. Elizabeth brought an action of trespasse , against one George Atton , for breaking of his cloase in North-looffennam aforesaide , vpon the 7. day of August in the 31. yeare of the said Q. But Atton pleaded not guyltie ; and the Iurie found , that the said Cauderie , had been depriued of that benefice , ( in parte wherof the Cloase was broken ) by a sentence of the said Bishop of London , Cum assensu A. B. C. D. &c. Collegerum suorum . For that he had preached against the Booke of Common-praier , and refused to celebrate diuine seruice according to the same . 3. Heerupon it came in question , how and by what Authoritie , the said Bishop of London had giuen his sentence , either rightfully or wrongfully . And first it was alleadged by Cauderyes Coūsell , that the Authoritie of commission giuen to him ( to witt to the forenamed Bishop of London ) and certaine others his Colleags , by the foresaid Q. Elizabeths letters Patents , was only founded vpon a Statute , made in the first yeare of her Raigne , by which it was enacted , That such Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , as by anie spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall power , hath heertofore been , or may lawfully be exercised , for the visitation of the Ecclesiasticall estate , and persons , and for the reformation , order , and correction of the same , and of all manner of errours , heresies , schismes , abuses , offences , contempts , and enormities within this Realme , should for euer be vnited and annexed to the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme . And that her highnes , her heyrs , and Successors should haue full power , and Authoritie , by vertue of that Act , by letters Patents vnder the great Seale of England , to assigne , nominate , and authorize such persons ( being natural borne subiects ) as her Highnes , her heirs , or Successours should thinke meet , to exercise and execute , vnder her highnes , her heyrs , and successours , all , and all manner of Iurisdiction , Priuiledges , and Preheminences , in anie wise , touching or concerning anie spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , within this Realme of England , and Ireland . And to visite , reforme , redresse , order , correct , and amend all such errours , heresies , schismes , abuses , offenses , contempts , and enormities whatsoeuer , which by anie manner of spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall Power , Authoritie , or Iurisdiction , can or may lawfully be reformed , ordered , corrected , and amended . &c. 4. This was the ground , wherby both the Queene was indued as you see , with all manner of Ecclesiasticall power , and Iurisdiction , and had authoritie also giuen her , to bestow the same vpon others : without anie other condition heere expressed , but onlie that they should be naturall borne subiects . So as if it had pleased her Maiestie , to haue bestowed a Commission , vpon so many Ladies of the Courte , to visit some parte of the Cleargie , or Laitie ; to redresse their errours , heresies , abuses , or other enormities ; or insteed of the Bishops named by her , she had thought good to nominate their wiues for high commissioners ouer them , to reforme , order , redresse , correct , or amend abuses , I see not by the words of the Statute , why it had not been lawfull ; For so much , as there is no exception of sex therin . And as well might the Queene haue made women her substitutes in this point , as this Statute gaue all the power in capite to her self being a woman . I would aske moreouer , that wheras K. Henry the eight , when he was made head of the Church appointed for his Vicar-Generall in Spiritualibus the Lord Cromwell , that was a meere lay man , and caused him to sit aboue all the Bishops in Synods and Councels , about Ecclesiasticall affaires : why his daughter Q. Elizabeth that had the same authoritie that he had , might not haue appointed my Lady Cromwell , or anie such other Ladie of that sex , wherof there were diuerse that professed good skill in diuinitie ( at the beginning of her Reigne ) for her Vicaresse-Generall , in Ecclesiasticall affaires . Nay why the feminne sex might not haue conspired togeather to haue put downe men for a time , and to haue taken the gouernment of the Church vpon themselues : making themselues the Cleargie , as their husbands were the laity . And truly albeit this may seeme ridiculous ; yet I see not , what in earnest can be answered heervnto , but onlie the noueltie , and indecency of the thinge . For , as for the lawfulnes , according to Luthers doctrine , that holdeth all people , to be Priests , and capable of all spirituall functions , both men and women , I se no great difficultie . And as for the said inconueniences of noueltie and indecency , there might seeme to be as great , or greater in giuing Ecclesiasticall primacy to a woman , as to make another woman her substitute , or Vicaresse ; But we see the first done , and therfore the second in like manner might haue been done , if her Maiestie had pleased . 5. But leauing this we shall returne to our Case of Caudery the Clerke , who whether he were a Catholike Priest , or Puritan-minister , that was depriued for refusing to follow the Communion-booke , is vncertaine ; but whatsoeuer he was , it seemeth that his cause was much ouer borne by the Current of the time , in fauour of the Bishop of London that depriued him , which I notwithstanding would not trouble my self , nor my Reader to repeate in this place , but that I am forced therunto in regarde , that vpon his Plea , & Resolution of the temporall Iudges theron , riseth out the occasion of our particular Controuersie , about Q. Elizabeths Spirituall Iurisdiction . 6. First then the said Cauderyes Counsell pleaded for him , that wheras in the Statute concerning the foresaid Booke of Common praier ( which they said was made with much moderation , and equitie ) it was appointed and ordained , that if any did offend against the same , he should for the first time loose onlie the profit of his Ecclesiasticall liuings for one yeare , and suffer imprisonment for six moneths : And for the second offence , be depriued ipso facto : And for the third , be imprisoned during his life ; And that of euery of these offences , in order , the delinquent should be seuerally conuicted , & condemned iudiciallie ; which they said , that the Bishop of London had not obserued , but had depriued Caudery for the first offence ; and this vpon no notorious euidence of the fact , or by his owne confession as the statute ordeyned : but onlie by default of his appearance . So as they alleadged two great , and important defects , to haue been committed by him ; and consequentlie his fact to be voide . And yet not withstanding saith M. Attorney ; it was resolued by the whole Courte , that the Bishops sentence was not to be impeached , for either of them ; First , for that it was not said in the Queens Commission , that you shall proceed thus , and not other wise , or in no other manner or forme . Secondlie for that the Ecclesiasticall and temporall laws , haue seueral proceedings , and seuerall ends . And thirdlie , for that there is a certaine prouiso in the said Act , that all Archbishops and Bishops , and euery of their Chancellours , Commissaryes , Archdeacons , and other Ordinaries , hauing peculiar Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ; may inquire , and punish within their said Iurisdictions , by admonition , excommunication , sequestration , or depriuation . &c. 7. But by M. Attorneyes leaue , none of these three shifts can satisfie the reason of an indifferent man in this Case : For first the Commission giuen to punish by the Queene , was stricti Iuris , and consequētly not to bee inlarged further , than the expresse words doe beare ; especially seeing that it is in preiudice of others . And the second euasion seemeth preiudicial to the Iudges themselues , confessing therby in effect , that albeit by their Common-law , which pretendeth to follow Reason , the Bishops proceeding was not warrant-able : yet it might be so , by the Ecclesiasticall law , ( that belike proceedeth without Reason ) though how , or why , nothing is here sett downe , but onlie this , that the temporall law is to inflict punishment vpon the body , lands , and goods ; the other being spiritual , is pro salute anima ; the one to punish the outward man ; the other to reforme the inward : as though , this externall act of depriuing Caudery from his benefice , did not punish him outwardlie , as well , as reforme him inwardlie : and yet doth M. Attorney , ( as though he had said somewhat to the purpose ) quote his * booke for it , and theron maketh this conclusion . Then ( saith he ) both these distinct , and seuerall Iurisdictions , consist and stand vvell togeather , and doe ioyne in this , to haue the vvhole man inwardly , and outwardlie reformed . Which conclusion supposinge , as you see , all Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , to be inward onlie , is denied by vs flattlie ; for that we hold Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction to be both internall , and externall , in fore conscientia , & in fore contentioso : as in the precedent Chapter we haue shewed . And secondlie we saie , that this seemeth nothinge to the purpose , for releeuinge the Bishop of London his Act , in depriuinge Caudery beyond the forme of his Commission . 8. The third euasion also , 3 vnder colour of the forenamed prouiso , is to little purpose ; for that it alloweth only ordinary Ecclesiasticall Iudges within their proper Iurisdictions , to proceed by admonition , excommunication , sequestration , or depriuation ; which was not so dangerous a matter , for so much as the partie aggreiued might allwaies appeale from them to higher courts for remedy , if he were aggreiued . But this authoritie of the high commissioners , being extraordinarie and supreame , hath no Appellation from it , and consequentlie it was more reason and needfull , that their Authoritie should be limited with some bounds ; and that they should not exceed , the strict words of their commission , to the end , that the aggreiued might appeale , at leastwise to the faid Commission & clauses therof , when they found themselues iniured . And the argumēt vsed heere by M. Attorney , à fortiore , hath no force at all ; to witt , that for so much , as these inferiour Ecclesiasticall ordinarie Iudges had power to proceed , without restraint of anie particular forme ; much more , high Commissioners had that Authoritie giuen them ; For that ( saith he ) Cui licet quod in maius est , non debet quod minus est non licere . Hee that may doe the greater , may not be denyed the lesser . This I say , is to simple to be brought forth , by so graue a Sage of the law , as M. Attorney is held to be . First , for that this Maximè agreeth not properly to out case : For albeit no man deny , but that high Commissioners could doe more and greater things , than these ordinarie Commissaries ; yet , for this it self , they needed more to be bound , and tyed to a prescript manner of iustifiable proceeding , as hath been said ; least they might iniure , and oppresse men at their pleasure without remedy . And secondlie is is not allwayes true , that he which can doe the greater , can doe the lesse , when it is in different kind of Iurisdictions , ordinary , or extraordinarie : as in our case it falleth out . 9. For if ( for examples sake ) a Visitour be sent to a Colledge to visit the same for certaine defects , with particular order , how to proceed , and punish the said offences ; though in many things he haue greater Authoritie , by his extraordinarie commission , then is the ordinarie of the President and fellows , and other ordinarie officers : yet cannot hee either tacitè or à fortiore by vertue of this Maximè take vnto him , all the power , and manner of proceeding which the said President and fellowes haue , by their ordinarie Authoritie of Statutes , in admitting and reiecting schollers , giuing , and changing offices , setting , and letting of lands , and the like : except it be epresslie in his Commission . Noe , not in punishments neither , concerning those defects , which he hath to visit may he exceed his prescript order ; they being things , as I say , stricti Iuris , which both law , reason , and conscience doe forbid to be enlarged beyond his commission . And so doth M. Attorney seeme to graunt that it should be so in any iudgement giuen by Commissioners , of Oyer and Terminer , or other Commissioners , or Iudges of the common law ; insinuating belike , that the Canon , or Ecclesiasticall law now vsed in England , is abritrary , & to be applied , as they please that sit in Authoritie . 10. And this seemeth greatlie to be confirmed , by another Resolution of his Iudges made to another argument of Caudery , wherein his Counsell vrged for him , that according to the commission , sentence should haue been giuen against him , by three at least of the Commissioners ioyntlie concurring , which was not obserued ; but giuen onlie by the Bishop , though he pretendeth , that it was also by the consent of some of his Colleage . It was resolued ( saith M. Attorney ) by the whole Courte that the sentence giuen by the Bishop , with Consent of his Colleags , was such , as the Iudges of the Common Law , ought to allow to be giuen according to the Ecclesiasticall laws . Consider , I praie you , this Resolution , that they , out of the Common-law , doe allow it to be well done , according to the Ecclesiasticall laws : but heare the reason , for it importeth much , to se therby the manner of proceeding : for seeing ( saith hee ) that their authoritie is to proceed , and giue sentence in Ecclesiasticall causes , according to the Ecclesiasticall law , and they haue giuen a sentence in a cause Ecclesiasticall , vpon their proceedings ; by sorce of that law , the Iudges of the common law , ought to giue faith , and credit to their sentence , and to allow it to be done according to the Ecclesiasticall law . For Cuilibet in sua arte perito est credendum . VVee must beleeue euery skillfull man in his arte &c. So hee . And is not this a strange Reason of a iudiciall sentence thinke you ? that for so much , as the Bishop of London had depriued Caudery by pretence of an Ecclesiasticall law , his fact must be allowed by vertue of this maxime : That euery skillfull man is to be credited in his art . And was not the poore plainteife well holpen vp , who after foure years trauell and cost , as it appeereth , wherin he followed the suite at the Common-law against the said Bishop , he was now answered , That euerie skillfull man , must be beleeued in his art , without further inquiring . 11. And yet M. Attorney heere auerreth , that it is a common , receiued opinion of all bookes , and citeth diuerse * booke-cases for the same . And albeit I haue not by me the bookes themselues nor doe professe my self skillfull therin ; yet must I needs ascribe so much equitie , prudence , & reason , vnto the Common law as to presume that it will not admit this Maxime without some distinction or reasonable restriction . As for example ; that this Peritus or skillfull man , that must be so beleeued , be eminent in his art , and be not interessed , nor passionate in the Case proposed ; For other-wise absurde effects would insue : as for example . If a surgeon hyred to cure a wound , should be suspected to haue intoxicated the same , and that the Plainteife should haue this answere , that euery skillfull man is to be beleiued in his arte , it were iniustice : For that he might , either of ignorance , haue erred therin , if he be not knowne to be very well learned in his arte ; or of malice , if he might be presumed to hope , or expect gaine by the wounded mans death . And howsoeuer it be , the matter in right , & conscience were not to be shuffled ouer with such an answere of the appointed Iudges , but the Case were to be examined , other surgeons to be consulted , them ans skill , honestie , and reputation to be inquired of , and other such diligence to be vsed , as might content , and satisfie the afflicted partie ; wherof none was done , as it seemeth , in the behalfe of Caudery . 12. For wheras in this case the Bishop of London was interessed in his honour , to defend that which he had done ; & not perhaps the greatest Canoinst , or Ciuilian Lawyer in the world for his skill ; and this poore plainteife , as I saie , hauinge followed the Common Lawyers to iudge the case for so many years ; it seemeth a sleight shifting off , for the Iudges to tell him now , in fauour of the said Bishop and his Colleags , Cuilibet in sua arte perito , est credendum . We must beleeue euery man skilfull in his science ; which is as much as if they had said ; he hath depriued you , and he is skilfull in depriuing , and therfore you must thinke that he hath done it very well . And this is all the remedy you are like to haue . 31. And by this the reader may also perceiue how much is to be ascribed to M. Attorneyes words before recited , when he saith of those Iudges of the Common law , from whome he citeth some certaine little peeces of Interpretations , Ordinances , Statutes , or decrees , in proofe ( as he would haue it seeme ) of the Queens Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ; persuading vs , that they could not bee daunted vvith any feare , moued by any affection , nor corrupted vvith any reward : which as I beleiue in some , so the experience of these our daies , and of these our fornamed Iudges and moderne Sages , may teach vs to suspect the same in others also of those auncienter times , who may be presumed to haue followed the current of their dayes , and to haue been no lesse ready , to run after their Princes humours , than we see many lawyers and Deuines also in our dayes to doe . But now to the last argument of Caudery , & finall Resolution against him . 14. After that he had declared the three defects before mentioned of the Bishop of Londons sentence against him . First that he was depriued vpon the first accusation . Secondlie that hee was conuicted by no Iury , wittnesses , or confession , but vpon not appearance . Thirdlie that the sentence was not giuen by three , or more Commissioners ioyntlie . All which are expresse clauses of their commission sleightly euacuated , as before you haue heard : he came to the fourth point , which is , that the Statute wherby this supreame Ecclesiastcall power was giuen to the Queene herself by the Parlament , hath a clause ; that such as should be named for commissioners must be naturally borne subiects . Which his counsell said did not appeere by the special verdict of the Iury , to haue been obserued , & consequentlie that the sentence was not good and auailable in law . Heervnto ( saith M. Attorney ) a threefold answere vvas giuen , and resolued by the vvhole courte . First , that they which were Commissioners , and had places of iudicature , should be intended to be subiects borne , and not aliens , &c. Quia stabitur praesumptioni , donec probetur in contrarium . The common presumption must bee followed , vntill the contrarie be proued . Heer you see how much this answere weigheth . It seemeth to me that this matter might easilie in foure years haue been verefied , if the Iudges had listed , whether these Commissioners were aliens , or borne Subiects , & not to reiect the Plainteife now with this shaddow , of common presumption , that they might be presumed or supposed to be naturally borne . 15. Secondlie , saith M. Attorney the Iurors haue found that the Queene , by her said letters Patents , did authorize them secundum formam Statuti praedicti : according to the forme of the said Statute that authorized her ; and therfore it doth by a necessarie consequence amount to as much , as if they had found , that they had been subiects borne . For if they were not subiects borne ( saith he ) they could not be so authorized secundum formam Statuti praedicti . This is the second answere somewhat weaker ( as to mee it seemeth ) than the former , of presumption and common intendement . For heere , insteed of prouing that the Commissioners were borne subiects , and consequentlie well anthorized ; he subsumeth , and inferreth the contrary , to witt , that they were authorized by the Queene , secundum formam Statuti praedicti . ergo they were borne subiects : as who would saie the Queen , or those that counselled her , could not be deceiued or euill informed , or negligent in this point , about the obseruing of that clause : and yet this is all , that was answered by the Court to this matter . Which themselues ( belike ) considering , fell to deuise a third answere , more absurde and paradoxicall , than all the rest , which haue giuen the ground or argument of this Sage fable or Comedy , which M. Attorney hath heere partlie reported , and partlie exhibited vnto vs , in this his booke , to the laughter of such as reade it , and doe consider the exorbitant vanitie therof . I shall set it downe in very few words . 16. When the forenamed Sages did perceiue , that the former two answers to Cauderyes fourth exception , against the Queens commission , made out vpon vertue of the statute in the first yeare of her raigne , that gaue her all kinde of Spirituall power , and Iurisdiction did not satisfie , they fell vpon this third , that albeit the said Queene , had not obserued the clauses , and conditions specified in the said Statute for authorizing others in the like Iurisdiction : yet had she authority otherwise , to make out such a Commission , in that she was Queene , and this by the vertue of her Crowne , according to the auncient Common laws of England .. You shall heare M. Attorneys owne words in this resolution . This Act ( saith he ) of the first yere of the late Queene ( concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ) was not an act introductorie of a new law , but declaratorie of the olde : which appeereth as well by the Title of the said Act , videlicet . An Act , restoring to the Crowne the auncient Iurisdiction ouer the State Ecclesiasticall & spirituall : &c. As also by the body of the Act in diuerse partes therof , for that this Act doth not annex anie Iurisdiction to the Crowne , but that which in truth was , or of right ought to be , by the auncient laws of the Realme , parcell of the Kings Iurisdiction , and vnited to his Imperiall Crowne , &c. so as , if the said Act of the first yeare of the late Queene , had neuer been made , it was resolued by all the Iudges , that the King or Queene of England for the time being , may make such an Ecclesiasticall commission , by the auncient prerogatiue , or law of England . Thus hee . 17. And trulie I am sorye , that he affirmeth this strange Paradox to haue been the resolution of all the Iudges there present . But to the end that all may not seeme to haue entred into this solemne folly , it were good that their particular names were knowne , that resolued the same ; For certainlie , it will bee the most notorious iest , vnto forraine lawyers of all sortes , & vnto other graue , & learned men when it shall come abroad in other countryes ( as shortelie it will , for that M. Attorney hath caused it also to be published in Latin ) which hath happened in many years , if not ages ; & much laughter it will cause , & will celebrate , solemnlie M. Attorneys name that is the Reporter therof . For this matter toucheth not onlie England and English-laws , but all other Countryes besides , who haue runne ioyntlie with England for many hundered years , in the self same conformity of Catholicke Religiou , and of temporall lawes confirming the same in ech Countrey , and particularlie in this point of the Popes Spirituall Authoritie vniuersally receiued : So as , for so much as their kingdomes being entyre Empires , and Monarchies , ( as ours is ) they must needs be said , to haue had this Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction also in the highest degree , included in their Kinglie right , as parcell of their Imperiall Crowne ; wherof insueth , that either they , and their learned Counselours , Lawyers , and Sages , did not see or know the same , which had been great Ignorance : or esteemed it not , which had been great negligence ; or ( which is most likely ) that our lawyers now will be thought by them ridiculous , to set forth such a strange Paradox to the worlde , contrary to that which so many thousand Sages of former tymes both in generall Councells and otherwise , haue resolued , decreed , and determined , vpon better deliberation , and more searche , both of diuinity , history , and lawe , than these temporall Iudges could doe vpon the suddaine in Cauderyes case , howsoeuer M. Attorney doth magnifye the same ; whoe as I heare by some that will seeme to reporte it from his owne mouth , he that is the Reporter , is in great parte also the author , or at least wise affecteth to be thought so , as of a new witty inuention ; hauing often , and vnto many promised to proue it , and now hath begun to sett vpon it . We shall see with what euent . THE SECOND PART OF THIS CHAPTER , Vvith a more cleere explication of the Question . §. I. 18. But before wee come to treate of proofes , we must consider of one circumstance of the matter more , which is of no small importance , for iudging of the whole , and this is the circuite of words , and multitude of darke and dazeling phrases , which the foresaid Statute vseth , in deliuering , and setting downe the Ecclesiasticall power & Iurisdiction , giuen to Q. Elizabeth , to wit ; that all such Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , as by anie spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall power , hath heertofore been , or may lawfully be exercised , for the visitation of the Ecclesiasticall estate and persons , and for their reformation , order , and correction of the same ; and of all manner of errors , heresies &c. is given to the Queene , with full power and authoritie , to assigne , nominate , and authorize others also , to exercise and execute vnder her highnes all , and all manner of Iurisdiction , priuiledges , and preheminences , in anie wise touching or concerning , anie spirituall or Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , and to visit , reforme , redresse , order , correct , and amend , &c. 19. Which words may seem by their often naming of visitation and visiting , that they meant onlie to make the Queene a visitrix ouer the Cleargie , which importeth much limitation of supreme power , and yet on the other side , they giue her all Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , that euer hath been heertofore , or may be exercised by anie Ecclesiasticall authoritie or person ; and that both she , and her substitutes , haue all , and all manner of Iurisdiction , priuiledges , and preheminences concerning spirituall affaires , as you haue heard . So as , on the one side , they seeme to restraine and limitt , not calling her head of the Church , as before in the stile of K. Henrie , and K. Edward was accustomed , but rather a supreme Visitrix , as by these words appeereth . And on the otherside they giuing her , all , and all manner of Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall that by anie power , or person Ecclesiasticall hath euer heertofore been vsed , or may be vsed ( including no doubt therin both the Pope , and all other Bishops , or Archbishops , that euer haue exercised Iurisdiction in England ) they make her spirituall head of the Church in the highest degree ; giuing her the thinge , without the name , and dazeling the eyes of the ordinarie Reader , with these multitude of words subtilie couched togeather . And why so thinke yon ? I shall breefly disclose the mysterie of this matter . 20. When K. Henry the eight , had taken the Title of Supreame head of the Church vpon him ; as also the gouernours of K. Edward had giuen the same vnto him , being but yet a child of 9. years old : the Protestants of other Countries , which were glad to se England , brake more and more from the Pope , whome they feared ; yet not willing insteed therof to put themselues wholie vnder temporall Princes , but rather to rest at their owne libertie , of chosing congregations and presbyteryes , to gouerne ; began to mislike with this English stile of Supreame head , as well the Lutheranes , as appeereth by diuers of their writings , as also the Zuinglians ; and much more afterward the Caluinists , whereupon Iohn Caluin their head and founder , in his Commentary vpon Amos the Prophet inueigheth bitterlie against the said Title , and authoritie of supreame head taken first by King Henry , and saith it was Tyrannicall , and impious . And the same assertion he held during his life , as after by occasion , more particularlie shall be shewed . And the whole body of Caluinists , throughout other Countryes , are of the same opinion and faith , though in England , they be vpon this point deuided , into Protestants and Puritans , as all men know . 21. This then being the State of thinges , when Q. Elizabeth began her Raigne , those that were neerest about her , and most preuailed in Counsell , inclining to haue a change in Religion , that therby also other changes of dignities , offices , and liuings might insue , and desiring to reduce all to the new Queens disposition ; but yet finding great difficultie and resistance in many of the Caluinists , to giue the accustomed Title of headship , in respect of Iohn Caluins reprobation therof : they deuised a new forme and featute of words , wherby couertly to giue the substance without the name ; that is to saie , the whole spirituall power , & iurisdiction of supreame head vnder the name of Visitrix , or supreame gouernesse , as in the Oath of the same Statute is set downe where euery man , vnder forfiture of all his lands and liuings , ( and life also in the third time ) is bound to sweare , and professe , that he beleiueth in his cōscience , that the said Qneene is supreame gouernesse in all causes Ecclesiastical in this sense ; and that there is no other Spirituall power , or Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ouer soules in England , but this of the Qneene , or such as commeth from her . And this was also the high iniquitie of this tragicall Comedye among other ; that the whole Realme being almost all Catholike and of a contrarie beleife at that time , was forced to sweare , within thirtie daies after the said Act , to this fantasticall deuise of giuing supreame authoritie Spirituall to a woman , wherof by naturall , diuine , and humane law , she is not capable , ( as in the next chapter shall bee proued ) being a deuise of some few , in a corner first , and then procured by negociation to passe in Parlament ; or els to incurre the daunger of the foresaid penalties ; that is to saie , either sacrilegiouslie to forsweare themselues against their consciences , or to vndoe themselues and theirs in wordlie affaires ; a hard and miserable choise . 22. But now to the point it self , what reall , and substantiall difference ( thinke you ) can their be imagined between the spirituall Authortie of Head-ship giuen vnto K. Henry the 8. by the Statute of the 26. yeare of his reigne , and this of visitrix or supreame gouernesse , giuen to Q. Elizabeth in the first of her reigne ? Was not the self-same power and Iurisdiction ment to be giuen ? And if there bee no difference in the thing it self why doe they fly the word in this , which they vsed in that ; and why doe they vse such large circumloquutions , of visiting , ordering , redressing , and the like ? For as for K. Henries statute , it beareth this Title . An act concerning the Kings highnes , to be supreame head of the Church of England &c. And in the statute it self it is said . Be it enacted by the Authoritie of this present Parlament , that the King our soueraigne Lord , his heirs , and successors , shall be taken , accepted , and reputed the onlie supreame head on earth of the Church of England , called Anglicana Ecclesia . And the same Title was 9. or 10. years after , giuen in like manner to K. Edward the sixt , by the same Authoritie of Parlament , if in this Case it had anie authoritie : anecting also therunto all Iurisdiction spirituall whatsoeuer ; as it appeereth by a certaine declaration therof , made in the Statute of the first year of the said King. It saith thus . That for so much as all authoritie of iurisdiction , spirituall , and temporall , is deriued and deducted , from the Kings Maiestie , as supreame head of these Churches , and Realmes of England , and Ireland , and so iustlie acknowledged by the Cleargie therof ; and that all Courts Ecclesiasticall within these said two Realmes , be kept by no other power and authority , either forreine , or within the Realme , but by the Authoritie of his most excelent Maiesty : Be it therfore enacted , that all sommons and citations , and other processes Ecclesiasticall in all causes of Bastardy , Bygamye , and such like , called Ecclesiasticall shall be made in the name of our King. &c. And that in the Archbishops , and bishops seals of office ( for testisying of this ) the Kings Highnes armes , be decentlie sett with Characters vnder the said Armes , for the knowledge of the diocesse : & that they shall vse noe other seale of Iurisdiction , but wherin his Maiestyes armes be engraued , &c. 23. Lo heere , not onlie the name , and Authoritie of head of the Church giuen to K. Edward the Child , and taken from the Pope ; but all Iurisdiction also , and signe of Iurisdiction spirituall taken from the Archbishops , and Bishops of England , excepting onlie so far forth as it was imparted vnto them by the said Child K. Which importeth much , if you consider it well : For this is not onlie to haue power , to visitt , and gouerne Ecclesiasticall persons and to reforme abuses & . Set downe in the Queenes graunt by parlament ; but to haue all Ecclesiasticall and spirituall power , and iurisdiction originallie included in his owne person and so to be able from him self , as from the first fountaine and highest origen on earth , to deriue the partes & parcells thereof to others , which you may consider how different it is from that which here the Statute would seeme to ascribe to the Queene , and opposite and contrarye to all that which the ancient Fathers in the precedent chapter did affirme , & protest not to be in their Kings and Emperours at all , but in Bishops and Preists onlie , as deliuered immediatlie to them by Christ our Sauiour , and by them , and from them onlie to be administred to others for their saluation . But by this new order of the English Parlament , the contrarie course is established , to witt , that it must come to Bishops and Preists , from a laie man ; yea a Child , and from a lay-woman also , as the other Parlament determineth , and then must it needs follow also ( as after more larglie shall bee proued ) that both the one , and the other ( I meane K. Edward , and Queen Elizabeth ) had power , not onlie to giue this Ecclesiasticall iurisdictiō vnto others ; but much more , to vse , and exercise the same in like manner in their owne persons if they would , as namelie to giue holie orders , create , & consecrate Bishops , confirme Children , absolue sinnes , administer Sacraments , teach , and preach , iudge , and determine in points of faith and beleife , sitt in iudgement vpon errors and heresies , and the like . And this for K. Edward . 24. Now then if it may be presumed , ( as I thinke it may ) that Queene Elizabeths meaning was , to haue no lesse Authoritie Spirituall , and Ecclesiasticall giuen vnto her , and acknowledged in her , then her said Father and Brother had vsed before ; why did not the makers of this Statute set it downe in plaine words as the other did , but disguised the matter , by such māner of speach as they might seeme to giue but little , wheras they gaue all , and more then all ? The Cause was that which I haue said before , for which they laboured not to be vnderstood of all men , but to speake , as it were in mysterye ; not to offend so publikelie the Caluinists , and yet to include matter inough , to ouerthrow Catholikes . But the said exacter parte , and purer Caluinists , quicklie found out the matter , and so they began verie shortly after to mutter and write against this , and diuers other points of the Statute , and so haue continued euer since ; and the Controuersie betweene them , is indeterminable . 25. Well then , for so much , as now we haue laid open the true state of the Question , and that M. Attorney is bound to proue his proposition in this sense and explication , that heere is sett downe out of K. Henry , and K. Edwards Statutes , to witt that Q. Elizabeth had all plenarie power of Spirituall Iurisdiction in her self , to deriue vnto others at her pleasure , as from the head , and fountaine thereof . And that no Bishop , Archbishop , or other Ecclesiasticall person within the Realme , had , or could haue anie spirituall power , or iurisdiction , but from the wellspring , and supreame sourge thereof . And this not onlie by vertue of the foresaid Statute of the first yeare of her raigne , but before , & without this also by the verie force of her Princely Crowne , according to the meaning of the old , and most auncient cōmon laws of England . It will be time now to passe on to the veiw of his proofes , which for so new , strange , and weightie an assertion that toucheth ( if wee beleiue the former alleadged Fathers ) the very quicke , and one of the neerest means of our eternal saluation or damnation , ought to bee very cleere , sound and substantiall ; We shall see in the sequent Chapter what they are . VVHERAS IN THE CASE PROPOSED , THERE MAY BE TVVO KINDES OF PROOFES , The one DE IVRE , the other DE FACTO ; M. Attorney is shewed to haue fayled in both : and that we doe euidently demonstrate in the one , and in the other . And first in that DE IVRE . CHAP. IIII. THat the late Queene of England had such plenary Ecclesiasticall Power , as before had byn said , & this by the intent & meaninge of the old ancient Common-lawes of Englād ; though vnto me & to many others , it seeme a most improbable Paradox , and doe meane afterwardes , by Gods assistance , to prooue and euidently demonstrate the same , and shew that from our first Christiā Kings vnto K. Henry the eight , the Common-lawes of our Land , were euer conforme and subordinate to the Canō Ecclesiasticall lawes of the Roman Church in all spirituall affayres : yet for so much as M. Attorney hath taken vpon him , to prooue the contrary , two heades of proofe he may follow therin . The first De Iure , the second De facto . And albeit he entitle his Booke according to the first , to witt , De Iure Regis Ecclesiastico ; yet doth he nothing lesse then prosecute that kind of proofe , but rather flippeth to the second which is De Facto , endeauoring to prooue , that certaine Kings made certaine lawes , or attempted certaine factes somtimes and vpon some occasions , that might seeeme somwhat to smel or taste of Ecclesiasticall power , assumed to themselues in derogation or restraint , of that of the Bishops , Popes , or Sea of Rome . 2. Now albeit this were so , and graunted ( as after it will be reproued ) yet well knoweth M. Attorney that an argument De facto inferreth not a proofe De Iure . For , if all the factes of our Kings among others , should be sufficient to iustifie all matters done by them ; then would ( for example ) fornication be proued lawfull , for that some of them are knowne to haue had vnlawfull children , and left bastardes behinde them : And the like we might exemplify in other things . Neither doe I alleadge this instance without peculiar cause or similitude ; For as in that vnlawfull act of the flesh , they yelded rather to passion and lust , then to their owne reason & iudgment , knowing well inough that they did amisse , when they were voyd of the same passion : so in some of these actions of contention , about Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , some of them were byassed with interest somtymes , by indignation , ielousy , & other like motiues to doe or attempt that , ( especially in these later ages ) which reason and Religion did not allwayes approue , nor themselues nether vpon more mature deliberation . And yet doe I not graunt that M. Attorney bringeth any thing of moment in this kind of proofe de facto also , as after shall appeare , though all his pretences of proofes be in this kind only . 3. For , as for the first , though he entitle his booke De Iure as you haue heard , yet little or nothing doth he alleadge therin worthie to be repeated : Only he hath one Argument mencioned and refuted by vs before in the second Chapter of this Answere : which is that the Kingdome of England being an absolute Empire and Monarchie , consisting of one head , which is the King , and of a body politicke deuided into two generall partes , the Clergie and the Layty : both of them next vnder God , must be subiect & obediēt to the same head in all causes , for that otherwise he should be no perfect Monarch or head of the whole bodye &c. 4. But to this the answere is playne , by the groundes we haue laid downe in the same Chapter , of the different origen of spirituall and temporal power , and that it is sufficient to any temporall Monarch and to the perfection of his Monarchie , that all sortes of people throughout his dominions , as well Clergie as Layty , be subiect vnto him in all temporall affayres : and that with this perfection of Monarchie were content both Constantyne the first christian Emperour , & also Valentinian , Gratian , Theodosius , Arcadius , Honorius , Iustinian , and other Emperours that eusued after him , as also Charles the Great in France with his Successours & all our English Kings before K. Henry the eight , who esteemed themselues for greate perfect Monarches ouer their people ( as in deed they were ) without this chalenge of Spirituall Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall matters . And therfore the said greatest Emperours , were content also to beare patiently , and christianly the denyall therof in diuers occasions , by their good Bishops & Prelates , S. Basil , S. Gregory Nazienzen , S. Ambrose , & S. Chrysostome , yea and checkes also for vsurping somtymes , either by themselues , or their officers , vpon Ecclesiasticall power that belonged not to them ; wherof many examples might be alleadged , and some haue bene touched * before in the place mencioned . For to this end was that admonishment of S. Gregory Nazienzen to the Emperour Valentinian , that he should vnderstand , that he being a Bishop had greater Authority than the said Emperour . To the same effect likwise was the resolute speech of S. Ambrose vnto the same Valentinian , Nolite grauare Imperator . &c. Trouble not your self , Emperour , in cōmāding me to deliuer the Church , nor doe you perswade your self that you haue any Imperiall right ouer those things that are spirituall or diuine ; exalt not your self , but be subiect to God if you will raigne ; be content with those things that belong to Cesar , and leaue those which are of God vnto God. Pallaces appertaine to the Emperour , and Churches vnto the Priest. You haue right ouer the walles of the Cyttie , but not vpon sacred howses . So he ; And the same S. Ambrose some 3. or .4 . yeares after , vsed the like speech of superiority in spirituall matters to the good Emperour Theodosius checking him greiuously , yea keeping him out of the Church , and holding him vnder excommunication , for eight monethes togeather . And when the said good Emperour came humbly on foote unto him , saying : Ora vt mihi soluas vincula , & ne mihi occludas ianuam . I beseech you loose my bandes and shutt not the Church doore against me ; The other answered , what pennance can you shew me that you haue done since the committing of your greiuous sinne . &c. 5. And the like libertie of speech might I alleadge out of S. Chrisostome , where speaking of the presumption of King Ozias , that would meddle in Spirituall matters vsed this Apostrophe vnto him , Mane intra terminos tuos , aly sunt termini Regni , alij termini Sacerdoty : hoc Regnum illo maius ; Stay king within thy bounds and limitts , for different are the boundes of a Kingdome and the limitts of Priest-hood , and this Kingdome ( of Priest-hood ) is greater then the other ; wherof he yeldeth this reason a little after , Regi corpora commissa sunt , sacerdoti animae ? The bodyes be committed to the Kinge , the soules to the Priest. And in the next homily following he inferreth this conclusion : Ideoque Deus &c. Therfore hath God subiected the head of the King , to the handes of the Priest ; instructing vs therby that the Priest is a greater Prince , then the king ; for that ( according to S. Paul ) the lesser allwayes receaueth blessing from the greater , and more eminent . Other Fathers sayings to the same effect I purposely omitt for breuityes sake , but by these few M. Attorney may see , how he is deceiued in placing the perfection of a temporall Monarchie , in hauing spirituall Iurisdiction ouer Priestes in Ecclesiasticall affayres . 6. We read that when Constantius the Emperour some to Constantyne the Great , tooke vpon him to fauour the Arrian heresye , he called vnto him diuers Catholike Bishopps , as S. Athanasius doth relate and setteth downe their names , willing them to subscribe to that which he had appoynted for the bannishment of the said S. Athanasius , and communion with the Arrians : Quibus admirantib●● &c. Who marueling ( saith he ) at this commandement , as a new thing , and telling him that this was not according to the Ecclesiasticall Canons , the Emperour replyed , I will haue that held for Canon which I doe appoint , either obey or goe into banishment ; wherat they more wondering , and holding vp their hands to heauen , did with libertie propose their reasons vnto him , telling him that his Kingdome was not his , but from God who had giuen it vnto him , and that it was to be feared least he would take it againe from him , and finally denounced vnto him the last daie of iudgement , persuading him that he should not peruert the course of Ecclesiasticall affayres , nor intermeddle his Roman Empire , in dealing with Ecclesiasticall Constitutions &c. So Athanasius of these good Bishops . 7. And vnto the same Emperour , a little after , that great and famous Confessor Osius , who among the rest had sitten as Iudge in the Nicene Councell , vpon like occasion , wrote this graue and important admonition : Define quaeso , & memineriste mortalem esse , resormida diem iudicij , &c. Leaue of , I beseech thee , ô Emperour , and remember that thou art mortall , feare the day of iudgement , and keep they self pure from this kind of synne , and doe not intermeddle with Ecclesiasticall causes . Do not vse commandements to vs in this kinde , but rather learne of vs God hath committed the Empire vnto thee , but vnto vs the things that appertaine to his Church ; and as those , that malignantly doe carpe at thy Empire , doe contradict the ordinance of God ; so beware thou , least by drawing vnto thee those things that appertayne vnto the Church , thou doe inuolue thy selfe in a hainous synne , Giue vnto Cesar those things which are of Cesar ( saith the Scripture ) and to God those things that are of God ; & therfore as yt is not lawfull for vs to meddle with thy earthly Empire ; so hast not thou power , ô Emperour , ouer sacred things ; which I write vnto thee for the care I haue of thy saluation . &c. 8. And doe you see here this liberty of speech in Ecclesiasticall Prelates of the primitiue Church , towards their Kings aud Emperours ? doe you see what difference and distinction they make betwene Ecclesiastical & temporal power ? & yet we read not that any Attorney or Aduocate of these Emperours , did euer accuse these Bishops of treasō for speaking as they did , or once obiected that they meant hereby to take away any parte or parcell of their entire and absolute Monarchies . No though S. Athanasius for his parte went yet further ; for when he saw that all these admonitions , and reprehensions would not preuaile , but that the said Constantius went forward to intermeddle more , and more in Ecclesiasticall affayres ; he wrote thus in the same Epistle . I am d●nuò in locum Ecclesiasticae cognitionis suum palatium Tribunal constituit , &c. Now againe hath the Emperour Constantius made his pallace a Tribunall of Ecclesiasticall causes , in place of an Ecclesiasticall Courte , and hath made himself the chiefe Prince , and Author of spirituall pleas . &c. These things are grieuous and more then grieuous , but yet are such as may well agree to him that hath taken vpon him the image of Anti-christ , for who is there , that seing him to beare himself as Prince , in the determyning of Bishops causes , and to sitt as Arbiter in Ecclesinsticall iudgemēt , will not worthily say , the Abhominatiō foretold by Daniel to be now come , &c. So he . And there were no end if I would prosecute all that might be said out of the sense and iudgement of the ancient Fathers against this first argument of M. Attorney , That tēporall Princes are not absolute Monarches , except you giue them spirituall iurisdiction also . But we must be myndfull of breuity and so this for the first shall suffice , remi●ting you to that which hath bin spoken more largly hereof in the second chapter before . 9. An other Argument yt seemeth M. Attorney would insinuate ( for vrge it he doth not ) by the consideration of two Tribunalls or Courtes of the King of England : the one Temporall , the other Ecclesiasticall , and seuerall causes belonging vnto them . You shall heare it out of his owne speach , and then iudge if it make for him or against him . The kingly head ( sayth he ) of this politike bodie , is instituted and surnished with plenary and entire power , prerogative , and Iurisdiction to render iustice and right to euery parte and member of this bodie , both Clergie and Laytie , of what state , degree , or calling soeuer , in all causes &c. and as in temporall causes , the King by the mouth of the Iudges in his Courtes of Iustice , doth iudge and determine the same , by the temporall lawes of England ; so in causes Ecclesiasticall , & spirituall , as namely blasphemy , ●●st●●y from Christianity , Heresies , Schismes , Ordering , Admissions , Institutions of Clerkes , Rites of matrimony , Diuorces , & otherlike ; the conusaunce wherof , belong not to the Common-lawes of England ; the same are to be determined and decyded by Ecclesiasticall Iudges , according to the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes of this Realme . So M. Attorney making this note in the margent : VVhat causes belonge to the Ecclesiasticall Courtes ; see Circumspecte agatis 13. yeare of Edward the first , &c. And VVest . 2. and 13. Edward . ● Cap. 5. art . Cleri Edward . 2. 9. Wherunto though I might oppose the Authority , and speaches of all the auncient Fathers , before mencioned that in this matter of diuinitie , ought to weigh more with vs then any particular Ordination of secular lawes , though they were against vs , yet in this case I dare ioyne yssue with M. Attorney vpon this very Argument , which he hath alleadge , for that truly I doe not see what could be produced more effectually either against himself , or for vs , then here is sett downe . For as we willingly graunt the former part of his speach , to witt , that the kingly head of the politicke body , is instituted and furnished with plenarie power , to render iustice , and right in all causes that belong to his ●●●●ticke and temporall gouernment , endes , and obiects therof ●o all persons of his Realme as before hath bene declared : So heere the very naming of two generall partes of the kingdome , which M. Attorney graunteh , that the ancient law of England deuideth into Clergy , and Laytie and the mencioning of two seuerall Courtes , and distinct causes to be handled therin , by distinct Iudges , in such manner , as the one cannot haue conusaunce of the other , inferreth plainly two distinct powers , descēding from two distinct origens , the one Temporali the other Ecclesiasticall ; and so doe the places quoted by him , of Circumspectè agatis , westm . the second and Articul . Cleri vnder K. Edward the first and second most euidently declare . 10. And first I would aske M. Attorney what the distinction of Clergie and Laity doth meane ; not made or brought in first by our Common-lawes ( as he would insynuate when he saith that the lawe deuideth our Politicall body into two generall partes , the Clergie & the Laity ) but rather instituted by the * Apostles themselues , and admitted only by our Cōmon-lawes , and continued from that tyme to ours , as before hath bene shewed . This distinction ( I say ) of Clergie and Layty wherof the former signifyeth the portion of God , that is to say , those persons that be peculyarly appropriated to the seruice of Almighty-God : the other of Laity taking their name of from the common people , I would aske of M. Attorney what it importeth , & especially in this case of Queene Elizabethes supreme primacy ? doth it not argue a distinct order of men , gouerned by distinct lawes , distinct Iudges , and distinct power & Iurisdiction ? But you will say the Queene was head of them both , and we grannt it , as they are members of one Common-wealth , but in their seuerall distinction and seperation , as they are Clergie and lay people , she could not be of both , but of one only , to witt of the Laity : For that no man will say that she was also a Clerke , or of the Clergie . And yet in this partition , no man will deny , but that the Clergie is the worthier parte and member , and so is placed first in all our lawes : wherof is inferred that the said Clergie , as Clergie , is of a higher degree , according to our Common-lawes , then the temporall Prince , which is of the laitie only , and not Clerke , as in Q. Elizabeth is confessed ; and consequently she could not be head of the Clergie , as Clergie , that is in Ecclesiasticall Clergie matters , belonging to Religion . Wherof we may take a notable example from the great Emperour Valentinian the elder , who refused to be present , ( and much more President ) in certaine conferences about religion betwene the Catholicke Bishops & the Arrians , vpon consideration of these two distinct Orders of Clergie and lay-men , though he were inuited therunto by Catholicke Bishops themselues . Mihi quidem ( saith he ) cum vnus de populo sim , fas non est talia perscrutari , verum sacerdotes qui bus haec cura est , apud semetipsos congregentur vbi voluerint . Vnto me that am but one of the lay people , it is not lawfull to examine such things ( as appertayne vnto religion ) but let priests , to whome this care is committed , meet togeather amōg themselues to discusle the matter where they will. So much was this distinction between lay-men and priests esteemed by this auncient Christian Emperour . 11. Secondly I demaund of M Attorney concerning his distinction of Courtes and causes to be handled therin , Temporll & Spirituall , how it commeth to passe , that the Conusaunce of such causes as here he calleth Spirituall , belong not , as he saith , to the Common-lawes of England : No , nor ( as presently after he affirmeth ) could not belong : For that they are not within the conusaunce of the sayd Common-laws . And why is this , I praye you ? For if the temporall Prince be equallie head in both causes , and in both Iurisdictions , and that the power to knowe , discerne & iudge in both sortes , doe descend only from the temporall Prince , as before out of the Statute of King Edward the 6. you haue heard , by the Statute-makers determined , and M. Attorney confirmeth euery where in these Reportes : then should the common-Lawes of our Realme which are the temporall Princes law be cōmon indeed according to their name to all causes , aswel Spirituall as Temporall , for that their author and origen , which is the King , hath equall Power , & Iurisdiction in both , for that it is a maxime vncontrollable , that , according to the Iurisdiction of the L●w maker , vertue and power of the law doth extend it selfe . And then doth M. Attorney affirme that the conusaunce of so many Ecclesiasticall causes as he setteth downe , is not within the compasse of our Common-lawes , or what compasse will he assigne or lymitt to that Princes lawes , that according to this assertion , hath power in all ? Is not this to contradict himself , and to ouerthrow with the one hand , that which he goeth about to establish with the other ? For , if the Kings power be common to both causes , aswell Ecclesiasticall as Temporall , then must the Kings Common-lawes be common to both Courtes and matters therin handled . 12. But let vs see a certaine sleight or euasion of his worth the noting : As in temporall causes ( saith he ) the King by the mouth of the Iudges in his Courtes of Iustice , doth iudge and determyne the same by the temporall lawes of England ; so in causes Ecclesiasticall , as Blasphemy , Apostacy . Heresyes , Ordering , Institutions of Clerkes , &c. the same are to be determined and decyded by Ecclesiasticall Iudges , according to the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes of this Realme . Marke here ( gentle reader ) how M. Atnorney playeth wyly beguyly ; For according to the proportion of his cōparison , he should haue cōcluded thus : So the King by the ●outh of his Ecclesiasticall Iudges , doth iudge and determine the said Spirituall & Ecclesiastical causes , by his owne Ecclesiasticall lawes . But this he foresaw would include this great inconuenience among others , that if he said , that the King did iudge & determine by the mouthes of his spirituall Iudges the aforesaid spirituall causes , as he doth the temporall , then might he doe the same , yea and exercise them also immediatly by himself , if need were , aswell as by others ; for in all temporall iudgments and affayres , the King may sit himself in courte , and performe in person whatsoeuer his Officers , by his authority doe or may doe : which yet M. Attorney saw would be somwhat absurde to graunt , in the spirituall causes proponed by him of Blasphemy , Ordering of Priests ( or giuing holy Orders ) Institutions of Clerkes , Celebration of diuine seruice , and the like , to witt , that the King should performe them immediately in his owne person ; for who would not say it were absurde ( for example ) that the King should sing , or say the common seruice to the people ; or administer the Sacrament of Absolution or Marriage , or giue holy Orders , and the like : which yet the Bishop of Rome and all other Bishops or Prelates , neuer so great doe & may doe without inconuenience . And in truthe it followeth euidently that he , who can giue authority or power for another to doe a thing as from himself , and in his name , may performe the same in person also if he list , at least wise it cannot be vnlawfull for him so to doe . And therfore coming to the application of his comparison , he changeth his phrase , and saith , that the same are to be determined and decyded by Ecclesiasticall Iudges , according to the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes of this Realme . 13. Wherin you must note another shifte more poore and silly , then the former ; for that hauing declared vnto vs before that there are two generall partes and members of the Realme , to witt the Clergy and the Laity , and that these two haue two seuerall Tribunalls in their affaires , gouerned by two sortes of different lawes , Temporall and Ec●lesiasticall , Common and Canon , and these deriued from two different Authors and origens ; the Common-law from the temporall Prince and Commonweath , Ecclesiasticall from others , saith M. Atorney , but specifieth not from whom , or whence , though all the world knowe , that they come originally from the Church & Sea Apostolique : ( all which inferreth distinct originall Iurisdictions ) M. Attorney by his great witt hath deuised a newe sleight neuer perhaps yet heard of in the world before which is to make these Ecclesiasticall lawes though deriued from others , to be the Kings owne lawes , for that he approueth and alloweth them within the Realme ; and consequently that all lawes both Temporall and Spirituall doe come from the King , as their Author : which is a token that he hath full Supreame power . And this singular deuise pleaseth him so well , as he repeateth the same sundrie tymes in this Treatise . You shall heare the same in his owne words in this place , & how dangerous and preiudicyall a Conclusion he buildeth vpon the same , against Catholiques . 14. For as the Romans ( saith he ) fetching diuers lawes from Athens , yet being approued and allowed by the State there , called them notwithstanding , Ius Ciuile Romanum . And as the Normans borrowing all or most of their lawes from England , yet baptized them by the name of the lawes , or customes of Normandy ; so albeit the Kings of England , deriued their Ecclesiasticall lawes from others , yet so many as were approued and allowed here , by , and with a generall consent , are aptly & rightly called the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes of England , which whosoeuer shall deny , he denyeth that the King hath full and plenary power , &c. And consequently that he is no cōplete Monarch , nor head of the whole entire body of the Realme . 15 , You see whervnto this deuise tendeth to make yt a matter of treason , to deny this fancy of M. Attorney , that for so much as the Canons , and Ecclesiasticall lawes of the Church , made by Popes and by Generall Councells , from tyme to tyme , and receued vniuersally for spirituall and Ecclesiasticall matters throughout the Christian world , were receued also and allowed by the Kings Comnn wealth of England . ( which was an euident argument of their acknowledging of the said Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction of the Church , and spirituall gouernours therof ) of this approbation and allowance , he would inferr , that these lawes were the Kings lawes , though deriued , as he sayth , from others ; that is to say from Popes and Bishopps . At which inference I doubt not , but that his fellow-lawyers will smile . And truly , I am sory that he being accoumpted so great a man in that faculty , which is wont to reason well , hath giuen so manifest occasion of laugther . For that euery puney & young student of law , will see by common reason , that the admitting of an other mans lawe , doth not make it his lawe , or that he had power to make that lawe of himself , but rather to the contrary it sheweth , that the admitter acknowledgeth the other for his Superiour in all matters contained vnder that law ; For the power of making lawes , is the highest power that principally proueth dominion in any Prince , and the admitting and obeying therof by another Prince , is an euident argument of inferiority and subiection ; and so here the admitting of the Popes Ecclesiasticall and Canon-lawes , was an argument that the admitters acknowledged his supreme authority in Ecclesiasticall affayres . 16. Neyther is M. Attorneys example of the Romans or Normans any thinge to the purpose all ; For that the Romans did not take from the Athenians any formall lawes made by them , for the gouernment of the Romans ( for that had been to acknowledg superiority as before hath bene said ) but rather they taking a suruey of all the Grecian lawes , aswell of Athens as other Common-wealthes or States , they tooke parcells therof here and there , and applied the same to their Common-wealth , which was properly to make lawes of them selues . And the like may be sayd of the Normans , if they borrowed any of their lawes from England ; which yet I neuer read in any Author besides M. Attorney , but rather that the Normans gaue lawes to England . 17. But nowe in the Canon-lawes receiued in England for almost a thousand yeares together after our first Conuersion , the matter is farr different ; for that these were receiued wholy and formally , as lawes made by another superior power in a different Tribunall & different causes , & sent expresly to England , and to all other Christian Kingdomes , to be receiued and obserued , and some also out of the same Ecclesiasticall power made within the land , by Synodes and Prelates therof , and promulgated to be obserued both by Prince and people formally and punctually as they lay ; and so were receiued , admitted , allowed , and put in execution by the said Prince and his Officers , except perhaps some tymes , some clause or parte therof might seeme to bring some inconuenience to the temporall State ; for which exception was made against it , and the matter remedied by common consent . And this was another manner of admitting lawes , then the Romans admitted some peeces of there lawes from Athens , or rather translated some pointes of the Athenian lawes into theyrs , which was to make them selues Maisters of thus lawes , and not receiuers or admitters . And finally wee see by this , to what poore and pittifull plight M. Attorney hath brought the title of his booke , De Iure Regis Ecclesiastico . Of the Kings Ecclesiasticall law , to witt that it is the Popes Ecclesiasticall law● in deed , made and promulgated by him and his , but receiued and obeyed by the King , and consequently not the Kings law , but the Popes . 18. Wherfore to conclude the first part of this Chapter , for so much as M. Attorney by these two arguments De Iure , ( which are the only he mentioneth ) hath proued no right at all of supreme spirituall Iurisdiction , to haue accrewed to Q. Elizabeth by the title and interest of her temporall Crowne , but rather the contrary , to witt , that both his Arguments haue proued against himself : we see therby how vnable he is to proue his said affirmatiue proposition , by this first head and sorte of proofe De Iure . I shall now in the second part of this chapter endeuour to prooue the negatiue , by as many sortes of rightes and lawes as any thing may be proued , that is to say not only by Canonicall & Ciuill lawes , but by law of Nature also , of Nations , Mosaycall , Euangelicall , and by our ancient Common-lawes of England ; all which doe concu● in this , that Q. Elizabeth being a woman could not haue any supreame spirituall power or Iurisdictiō in Ecclesiasticall matter● . THE SECOND PART OF THIS CHAPTER , VVherin is shevved that Q. Elizabeth in regard of her sex , could not haue supreame Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction . §. I. 19. First then , being to performe this , we are professe in this place , that we meane not to imitate the proceeding of some Protestants in this behalf , who following no certayne rule of doctrine , no● moderation in their doings or writings doe passe to extreames , & therfore feeling themselues greiued vnder Q. Maryes raigne , with the course of Catholike religion then held , tooke vpon them to publishe that women were not capable of any gouerment at all , Temporall , or Spirituall , nor to be further obeyed , than they would make Reformation in Religion ( for so they called it ) comforme to their willes and prescriptions , as appeareth by the bookes , writings , and actions both of Goodman ; VVhitingham , Gilbye , Knockes & others , who taking their fire of fury from Geneua , sought first to kindle the same in England , and being repulsed thence , brake into open flames of combustion in Scotland , and neuer coassed , vntill it brought two Noble Queens , mother and daughter to their ruyne ; and afterward put their heire and successor into such plunges , by those and other heades of like doctrine , and desperate attemptes answerable therunto , as Gods right hand did only preserue him from like ruyne . 20. But we are not of this spirit to seeke reuenge by such new brayn-sicke doctrine , we graunt that Queens may lawfully raigne & inherite that Successiō , which euery Countrey by their peculiar lawes doth allow them . The great Kingdome of France doth excude them , & so doe many lesser States in Italie , and Germany and other Countryes , yet doth Spaine , England , Scotland and Flanders admitt them for preuenting other inconueniences when Male-sucessors doe fayle . So as for this point of Q. Elizabeths temporall gouerment , we haue no controuersie in this place : If any fell out betweene her and the Bishop of Rome , whose authority she tooke from him , and applyed it to her self , and many otherwayes exasperated him ; that fact appertayneth not to vs , that are priuate men to iudge , especially in this place where our question is only of spirituall Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall causes , which that it could not be in a woman in regarde of her sex , all Catholique deuines doe proue by these reasons following . 21. First by the disposition of the Canon-law , which contayning the sense of Gods vniuersall Church , from time to time , both in the right and practise of this affayre of spirituall gouerment , ought to be , and is with wise , learned , & Godly men , of principall accompt , credit , and authority . For that the said Canon-law is deduced from the decrees of Councells , Synodes , Popes , auncient Fathers , Doctors , and Bishops , and from the custome and practise of the said Church from time to time directed by Gods holy spirit according to his promise , and receiued throughout all christendome from age to age , though now contemned by certayne new maisters , whose maistery standeth in this , to scoffe at that which they vnderstand not , or list not to follow , be it neuer so good . 22. This law then and iudgment of the Church is so far of , & euer hath been , from graunting spirituall Iurisdiction to be in any Queene , as in Capite , by right of any temporall Crowne , & to be deriued from her to others ; as it doth not allow any woman , to be capable of any spiritual power or Iurisdiction , though it be but delegated , & giuen by commission & substitution from another , as appeareth by the textes of Canon-law cited heere in the margent . And the princypall reason herof is , that all spirituall power being of two sorts , Ordinis & Iurisdictionis of holy order , & Iurisdiction , the femynine sex is capable of neither of them . Not of the power of Order , saith S. Thomas , which belongeth to the administring of Sacraments , for that a woman by her sex cannot administer them , nor is capable of Preist-hood , or sacred orders required therunto . And in this both Caluin and Cluinists agree with vs , though Luther at the beginning held that all Christians baptized might be preists and administer Sacraments , aswell women as men ; yea children , and diuells also , if they vsed the wordes , & institution of Christ , as in the places of this worke● here quoted may be seene . 23. The second part of Spirituall power , appertayning to Iurisdiction , either internall or external in fore conscientia or in sore contentioso that is to absolue or loose in the secret Trybunall of conscience , or in the open Court of externall contention , cannot fall vpon a woman , for the infirmity and indecency of her sex , saith the * Canon-law , and for many other absurdities that would ensue therof , if a woman should be admitted to the actes of Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , which are principally two , Docere , & Iudicare saith the said law , to teach and iudge , wherof neither of them standeth well in a woman to exercise ouer men ; the same lawe noting , that albeit Christ our Sauiour loued well Mary Magdalen , and other holy women that followed him , and serued him vnto his death ; yet is it neuer read , that he committed any part of Iurisdiction in gouerning his Church , vnto them ; no , not vnto the blessed Virgin his mother , though she were replenished with grace & full of the holy Ghost . And this of the Canō-law . 24. For the Ciuill , albeit little occasiō was giuen therin amongst the ancient heathen Romanes the chief Authors therof , to talke of of this controuersy of Spirituall Iurisdiction , their whole subiect being of temporall , & Ciuill affayres ; yet in a certayne Treatise De Regulis Iuris of the rules of that law , they haue this direction ; Faeminas remotas esse ab officijs publicis , & ideo iudices esse non posse . That women are to be remoued ( by the Ciuill law ) from all publique offices , & therfore cannot be Iudges . And if in Ciuill matters , by that law they could not be Iudges , how much lesse can they be supreame Iudges in spirituall causes , which are of a far higher dignitie , and indecency for women to meddle therin . All which better appeare by that which is to eusue , out of the law both of Nature , and Grace , which are the groundes of these Ciuill , and Canonicall Constitutions . For as the Ciuill law followed the one , so the Canon followeth the other , or rather both , for that both proceed from God , and are his lawes . 25. To consider then of the law of Nature , which is common to all Nations ; we read in the booke Genesis , that the order obserued by God in the creation of man and woman was this ; that first Adam and all other Creatures were made , and placed in paradise , and afterward Eua was created for man , and out of man , and to the liknes of man , as man was created before to the likenes of God. Out of which order of Creation , S. Paul doth in diuers places gather the naturall subiection of woman vnto man , ( especially in spirituall matters appertayning to God ) to be eternally established by this law of their creation . 26. For when to Tymothie he had said , Docere autem mulieres non permitto , neque deminari in virum , I doe not permitt women to teach , nor to haue dominion ouer her husband , he addeth presently for his reason , these words . For Adam was first created and then Eua ; And Adam was not seduced , but the woman was seduced . And the same Apostle writing to the Corinthians about a certayne precept and ordination of his , that woman should be couered in the Church , & men not , and men to haue their hayre cutt , & women not , in signe of subiection , and subordination the one to the other , he saith , I doe prayse you , brethren , for that you are mindfull of me in all things , and doe obserue my precepts , as I deliuered them vnto you . I will haue you knowe that Christ is the head of euery man , and man the head of the woman , and God the head of Christ. And as euery man that prayeth , or prophesieth with his head couered , dishonoreth his head ( which is Christ ) so euery woman praying or prophesying with her head not couered , dishonoureth her head ( which is man ) And the man ought not to couer his head , for that he is the Image , and glory of God ; but the woman is the glory of the man ; for man was not made of the woman , but the woman out of man , not was the man created for woman , but the woman for man , &c. Ipsa natura docet vos . Nature it self doth teach you , &c. 27. Now then out of these deductions from the law of Nature ; so much vrged , as you see by S. Paul for subiection , and subordination of women , euen in little small points , concerning Religion , as about speaking , teaching , and veiling their heads in the Church ; it may be inferred how earnest the same Apostle would haue bene , if the question had been propoūded about the highest poynt , honour , & office of Religion , which is to exercise the place of Christ , by mediation betweene God and man , and to be as it were high-priest , and President ouer men , in matters belonging to their soules ; for in this case all this law of Nature , would be broken and the women should be head ouer men , in the highest degree , and so should not be the glory of the man as S. Paul saith , that is , subordinate to his glory ; as he is to the glory of Christ , and Christ to the glory of God ; but the man should be her glory , that is to say , subordinate to her In iis quae sunt ad Deum . In those things that appertaine to God : yea she should be mediatrix betweene him and God , in place of him , that is chiefe priest . And so all this first naturall institution of God should be wholy peruerted , broken , and turned vpside-downe . 28. Neyther is it of any force , to obiect ( as some doe ) that a woman may be head of men in temporall affaires , as Queenes are , for that God hath left this free to m●n , to dispense in the vse of their naturall priuiledge of superiority for temporall gouernment , and to appoyn● women to gouerne them , for auoyding worse inconueniences , when there are no heyres-male to succeed , as before hath been said . But the matter is farr different in spirituall gouernment , which dependeth immediatly of God himself ; and was deliuered by him to men , & not to women ; and so hath been continued , throughout all ages from Adam to our dayes ; and vnder all lawes , both of Nature , Moyses , and Christ. For in the law of Nature , the first borne-male among the Patriarches was alwayes head of the family , both in temporall and spirituall matters , and consequently also Priest. And in the law of Moyses the said priesthood , and presidency in spirituall matters , was annexed vnto a tribe of men , and no woman admitted therunto . And much more in the law of the ghospell as presently we shall declare ; and so we may conclude that from Eue , to Elizabeth there was neuer woman that was supreame head , concerning matters of Religion , before her self ; so singular was she and her case in this point . 29. Now then for the Euangelicall law , meaning , and sense of our Sauiour Iesus Christ , in founding of his Christian Church , that it was not to leaue any part or parcell of the spirituall gouerment and Iurisdiction therof vnto any woman ( and much lesse the supreme in any Kingdome or Countrey ) besides that which before hath been cyted , and pondered out of S. Paul that , women may not teach or speake in the Church ( which yet is a necessary part to be able to doe if need require ) and that which the Canon-law putteth in cōsideration , that Christ left no part of Ecclesiasticall gouerment , either to his mother , or to any other of his women-disciples ; besides all this ( I say ) it is not hard to shew , out of the very Institution of Gods Church from the beginning , and the establishment and perfection therof , when Christ came in flesh , he excluded cleerly women from all dominion therin . 30. Fo● proofe wherof , first we are to suppose , according to the vnderstanding of all ancient Fathers , and declaration of scripture it self in many particulars , that concerning the worke of our first creation , and all ordinan●●● depending theron , as also the Miracles , and highest actions that fell out afterwards , from that creation to the tyme of our redemption , when any thing is ascribed peculiarly to Gods hand , saying that God did this , or God did that , we must vnderstand it princypally of the second person in Trinity sonne of God himself , who as he was to come downe to take our flesh and redeeme vs , and to make vs his Church , his Kingdome , his body , his price , his glory : so to that end did he create vs also , according to that saying of S. Sohn . Omnia per ipsum facta sunt . All things were made and created by him : and S. Paul speaking of those myraculous assistances giuen to the people of Israell , going forth of Egipt , doth ascribe the same euery where to Christ. As doth S. Iude also , saying , I would haue you to knowe , brethren , that Iesus , ●● first he saued the people of Israell , that he brought out of Egipt , so afterwards those that beleeued not , he destroyed . 31. This being supposed , we are to note further , that as Christ created Adam as the first head of his Church heere on earth vnder himself , and made him Lord of all both temporall and spirituall and as Priest to offer Sacrifice ; and Eue out of him afterward● subiecting her therby vnto him , and to his perpetuall Dominion , ( as before you haue heard S. Paul to collect out of this first institution ) ; so the diuell taking vpon him presently to contradict and ouerthrow this worke of Christ ; followed a quite contrary order and went first to Eue , persuading her to goe & preach to Adam the sermon that he had taught her , as she did , & because his Doctor and Mistresse in this Ecclesiasticall function , & therby turned vpside-downe , to both their tuynes , and to the ruyne of vs all , the whole order of subordination which Christ had appoynted before : Wherby she should haue bene taught by Adam , and not he by her . But Christ comming afterward to visit them againe , and to take accoumpt of this disorder , albeit he knew then that the woman had bene the author therof , yet would he not speake first to her , but according to the order appointed by himself , asked first for Adam . Our Lord called for Adam , saith the text , & dixit ei , vbi es ? and said vnto him , where art thou ? And when afterwards the whole cause being examined he gaue sentence vpon ech part for this disorder ; he specially confirmed againe his first Institution , for the Dominion of man● and the subiection of woman , saying vnto her , Sub viri potestate eris & ipso dominabitur tui . Thou shalt be vnder the power of man ( thy husband ) and he shall haue Dominion ouer thee . Which law and ordination is to be vnderstood in all kind of subiection , aswell domesticall and politicall , as Ecclesiasticall or diuine : so as in all these three kinds of affayres , man is made head , and gouernour both at home , in the common-wealth , and in the Church by this first institution of Christ , though in the former two , it is permitted vnto man , as hath been said , vpon some occasions , to yeld vp his right , when he will , though more in the second then in the first , for that the things are more arbitrary and tollerable , to witt that a woman should be head ouer all in the Common-wealth then at home ouer her husband . But in the third which is in the Church , and Church-matters , no dispensation is permitted , but that womans subiection must be perpetual . And therfore when S. Paul , as before hath been touched , cōmeth to talke of Church-matters , he suppresseth women presently by this law of Christ Mulieres ( saith he ) in Ecclesia tace ant , non enim permittitur eis loqui sod subditas esse sicut lex dicit . Let women hold their peace in the Church , for it is not per●itt●d into them to speake , but to be subiect , as the law saith . 32. This law named here by S. Paul , is the lawe instituted by Christ in the former wordes of Genesis , where he appointeth women to be subiect not only at home vnto their husbandes , but especially & principally vnto the gouerment of man in Ecclesiasticall matters , as you see by the application therof so often by S. Paul to Church affayres . For before in the eleuenth chapter to the Corinthians , he repeateth a precept of his owne made vnto them about veyling of womē in the Church , as you haue heard , founding the same vpon the first Institution of man and woman in paradise , prouing thence that the woman could not be head in the Church , and therfore must couer her head ; and therby yelde to her husband : & now in this place he giueth other strait precepts , about womens silence and subiection in the Church , and saith moreouer , Qua scribe vobis Domini sunt praecepta . These precepts which I write vnto you , are not myne but of our Lord. Adding presently this terrible threat , Qui autem ignorat , ignor●bitu● , he that knoweth not these things or will not know them , shall not be knowne by the same Lord. And finally the same Apostle vnto Tymothie vrgeth the same againe concerning the Church . Mulier in silentio discat cum omni subiectione . Let the woman ( in the Church ) learne in silence with all subiection . Marke the asseueration of all subiection . What would S. Paul haue said , if any woman in his tyme had challenged to her self all dominion in the Church , and yelded subiection to no Ecclesiasticall person whatsoeuer ? 33. But to goe forward in the Institution of Christ , for the spirituall gouerment of his Church : when he had gouerned the same by men and not by women , for the space of foure thousand yeares and more , vnder the law both naturall and written , and comming now to institute a new , more exact and perfect gouerment therof , vnder the law Euangelicall ; what did he ? was he vnmindfull of this his first Institution in paradise ? No : For he chose men , to witt his Apostles , and their Successours to gouerne his Church , saying vnto them , As my father sent me , so I send you , whose sinnes you forgiue they shal be forgiuen , & whose you retaine shal be retained . And to one of them in speciall . I vvill giue vnto thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen . Feed my sheep● , feed my lambes . And S. Paul speaking to some of those spirituall Gouernours , Priests and Prelates , saith . The holy ghost hath placed you sor Gouernours of Gods Church vvhich he hath purchased vnto himself vvith his owne bloud . And againe the same Apostle to the Corinthians setting downe the subordination of the said Gouernours of Christs primitiue Church , saith , that the first degree was of Apostles , the second of Prophets , the third of Doctors , &c. And in all this , is there no mention of women ; though there were many holy women among them , and one more high in Gods fauour then they all , as before hath been said . Neither euer is it recorded , that afterward any Apostle , Father , Doctor , Councell , Synode , Schole , Vniuersity , Pope , Prince , Nation , Countrey , Common-wealth , or priuate man in Christendome , did appoint , admit or allow any woman to be cheefe in spirituall matters , before the English Parlament in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne ; Nor can any Protestant in the world bring any one instance , example , or memory recorded by man or woman , against this vniuersall prescription , that I haue laid downe . 34. And this is sufficient for proofe out of the Euangelicall law , by Christs owne Institution ; albeit many other might be alleadged in the conformitie and confirmation herof , as seuerall members of this proofe , to witt the School-doctors , that haue handled the same largely , in their cōmentaryes , and disputations vpon the 4. Booke of Sentences and els-where , and doe by sound foundations ouerthrow the imaginary monstrosity of giuing spirituall Iurisdiction to women , which is ascribed as an old heresie or madnes rather vnto the Cataphrygians and Pepuzians as may be read in Philastrius & S. Epiphanius : which heretiks notwithstanding did goe about to confirme their phantasy by those words of S. Paul. In Christo neque masculus neque faemina &c. that there is no difference of male or female in Christ , that is to say whether he be man or woman . Which the said doctors doe declare to haue byn meant of the faith of Christ , and vocation to Christian Religion ; to witt , that all are called and receiued equally ; but yet not to gouerment or Iurisdiction the in Church . 35. The ranke of other doctors also , that write of the morall part of diuinity appertayning to manners , and Cases of Conscience , doe handle the same at large vpon diuers occasions in their Treatises : As also of the third sort of learned men Expositors of the Scriptures , preachers , & teachers , especially the anciēt Fathers , who albeit they handle not this question of ours in particular , and proper tearmes , About the spirituall supremacy of a woman in the Church of God ( for that they neuer imagined any such thing would , or could fall out ) yet in other occasions , wherin great women sometymes , not as heads but helpers to vnlawfull purposes , would be medling in Ecclesiasticall affayres , as the Empresse Eudoxia against S. Chrysostome & the Empresse Iustina against S. Ambrose and other the like : the said Fathers spake so sharply , and reiected them with such indignation , as a man may easely se what they would haue done , if any least insinuation had bene made , to challeng vnto them Ecclesiasticall power and Iurisdiction , and much more to be heads of the Church , which in those dayes was neuer so much as dreamed of . And if the said Fathers vpon occasion offered , did so earnestly deny vnto the husband of the one , & the sonne of the other , that were Emperours , the said supremacy in spirituall things , or that they had any power at all , in Ecclesiasticall causes , as you haue heard : what would they haue said to the women , if they had pretended any such matter ? Let one short sentence of S. Chrisostome serue for all in generall , to declare his opinion of womens gouerment euen in temporall thinges , and much more in spirituall . Caput omnino mulieris vir est ( saith he ) & magna saeditas esset si superiora fiant inferiora , & ciput deorsum , & pedes sursum . Man in all respects is head of the woman , and it should be a great deformitie , if the things which are the higher should bee made the lower , and that the head should be brought vnder , and the feet placed aboue . 36. But in another place , he decideth this our Question more in particular , concerning spirituall gouernment , remouing all women-kind , from the possibilitie therof , and for that his discourse in the said place , is of great weight , and consideration being sett downe between him , & his deer freind S. Basil in Dialogu-wise with much maturitie , and doth not only deny all spirituall gouernment to women , but placeth it where it ought to bee , in S. Peter , & his Successors aboue all others ; I shall alleadge the place somewhat more at large , which containeth a graue ponderation of those words of our Sauiour vnto S. Peter in S. Iohns ghospell . Petre amas me , &c. Peter dost thou loue mee more then the rest , and he answearing that he did : Christ replied ; if thou loue mee , feed my sheep . Wherof S. Chrysostome doth inferre , that Christ in these words did first of al specially commit the supreme charge of his said sheep to S. Peter , and his Successors . Pecud●● curam ( saith he ) quas sanguine suo acquisierat , tum Petro , tum Petri Successoribus committebat . He committed to Peter , and to Peters Successours the care of his sheep which he had purchased with his owne bloud . And againe . Petrum Christus authoritate hac praeditum esse voluit , & reliquos item Apostolos longe praecellere . Christ would haue Peter to bee indued with this supreme authority ouer his sheep , and therein far to excell all the rest of the Apostles , &c. 37. Secondlie S. Chrysostome maketh a deep ponderation vpon these words of our Sauiour , of the singular loue , which he would haue Pastors to beare vnto his sheep , and which hee bare himself , giuing his bloud for them , and what hee exacted at this high Pastors hands for gouerning and feeding of them , in this his demaund or interrogation , concerning his loue . Atque illi quidem licebat ( saith he ) verbis huiusmodi Petrum affari : Si me amas Petre , Ieiuniae exerce , super nudam humum dormi , &c. Our sauiour Christ might haue spoken to Peter in this sorte ( vpon his answeare of loue ) if thou loue me Peter , exercise fasting , sleep on the bare ground , watch continuallie , releiue them that bee oppressed , shew thy self a Father to orphans , and bee vnto widdowes insteed of their husbands . But now , Christ pretermitting all these other good works , what saith hee vnto him ? Pasce oues meas , &c. Feed ( and gouerne ) my sheep : for that all the rest of those good works before mētioned , may bee perfourmed by many subiects , not only men but also women , At cum de ecclesiae Praefectura , de credenda huic vel illi , tam multarum animarum cura agitur ; vniuersa quidem mulieris natura , functionis istius moli ac magnitudini caedat oportet , itemque & bona virorum pars . But when the Question is of any gouernmēt ouer the Church , or about committing to this or that person , the charge of so many soules ; then must all women kind yeeld , and giue place to the weight and greatnes of this function , and so must also a good parte of men , to witt all such as are of the lay sorte , and haue not Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction laid vpon them , by the ordinarie means before mentioned , of ordination & succession in the Church of God , descending originally from this first fountaine , of all ecclesiasticall power vpon earth , committed by the sonne of God to S. Peter , and his Successours , to endure to the worlds end . 38. And thus haue wee cleerlie the sentence , beleife , & iudgement , of S. Chrysostome concerning spirituall authority , for gouerning our soules , that it was giuen eminently to S. Peter and his Successors , aboue the rest of the Apostles , but so , as only men , and those not all , but Priests alone , and Cleargie-men , doe , or may succeed therein , and that all kinde of women are excluded , in respect of their sex from any superiority , or prefecture ouer the Church . And what-soeuer S. Chrysostome held , preached , or left written in this behalfe , be being so great a Doctor , and piller of Christs Church in his dayes , & the thing it self neuer contradicted , or reprehended by any other , may assuredly be held for the common doctrine , iudgement , sense , faith , and beleife , of the vniuersall Catholike Church in that age ; and consequently also , both of the former and following ages , vntill our time . And how much this consideration ought to preuaile with a prudent man , that followeth not passion , but reason , and hath care of his owne soule , is easy to see . And so much of this matter . 39. And now further I remember that I promised to proue my negatiue also by the ancient common & municipall lawes of England ; of which , though I might say , as before I said of the Fathers and Doctors of former tymes , that they ordayned nothing expresly of this particular case ; for that they neuer imagined that any such matter would fall out : yet doe they determine that expresly which includeth this ; which is that they confirme euery-where the libertyes , preheminencyes , and prerogatiues of of the Church , and Church-men of England : which doe principally consist in this , that only Ecclesiasticall men haue Power and Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall affayres ; and that no lay person ( and much lesse a woman ) can meddle therin ; and that there be two distinct swords in a Christian Common-wealth the one temporall in the hands of the Prince , the other Ecclesiasticall in the hands of the Bishop ; and that the Ecclesiasticall is greater and more soueraigne then the temporall , & that this later must help & be subordinate to the former . All which yow shall see decreed as well in the lawes of K. Edgar , and K. Edward before the Conquest , as also of the Conquerour himself which * after in due places we shal set downe . 40. And to all this now may we ad certaine manifest reasons , which besides the foundations before laid , or rather out of them all , our Deuines doe alleadge whie a woman may not be head of the Church , or haue spirituall Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall affayres . Wherof the first is that Christ our Sauiour being a Priest according to the order of Melchisedech , and refusing to be a temporall King , as out of the ghospell is euident , he left in his place Priests to gouerne his Church , as before hath bene declared , both out of Scriptures and ancient Fathers : but a woman cannot be a Priest , as both we and Caluinists doe hold ; though Luther taught otherwise for a tyme ( as hath bene said and is refuted at lardge , by K. Henry the 8. Q. Elizabeths Father in his booke against him ) and therefore the said Q. Elizabeth could not hold the place of Christ , in spirituall Iurisdiction , in the Church of England . 41. A second reason is founded vpon the maxime before alleadged by M. Attorney , Cui licet quod maius est , licet quod minus . He that can doe the greater , can doe the lesse : But it is more to be able to giue authority to others , to exercise spirituall functions and Iurisdiction , than to doe the same in his owne person , ergo if Q. Elizabeth could giue authority to Bishops , and Pastors to make Ministers , administer the Sacraments , preach , and teach with the like ( which belongeth to the head of the Church ) than could she doe them also her self . Which conclusion notwithstanding all English Protestants commonly doe deny ; yet is the Consequence euident , and the Minor proposition is proued . For that , he that giueth a power to an other , is presupposed to haue it first in himself , for that no man can giue that which himself hath not ; so as if Q. Elizabeth did giue any spirituall Iurisdiction to her Bishops to teach , preach , make Ministers , absolute , & loose sinnes , and the like ( who otherwise could haue no such authoritie at all ) she might , no doubt , haue exercised the same in her owne person , as in all temporall Iurisdiction we see , that whatsoeuer power the King giueth to any Gouernour , Iudge or Magistrate to exercise in his name , he may exercise the same also him self if he wil. And the same holdeth in the Pope , for any spirituall Iurisdiction or function that he committeth to any Bishop , Priest or Clerk whatsoeuer . 42. A third reason is taken , ab inconueniente , to wit from this inconuenience , that if a Queene could be spirituall head of the Church , and should marry without making hir husband King , she should be his spirituall head also , to loose and bind his sinnes , and to exercise Ecclesiasticall Censures of Iurisdiction , Suspension , or Excommunication against him at her pleasure , and he for his part should be bound in conscience vnder payne of sinne to heare and follow her doctrine , if at any time she list to preach vnto him , or to prescribe what he must beleeue or not beleeue in matters of faith ; which besides that it should be contrary to that we haue alleadged before out of S. Paul , and Christ his Institution , for the subiection of women in these causes , it would be very absurd and ridiculous also , as you see , and vnworthie of the excellent gouerment of Christ his Church , instituted and framed by the highest wisdome of almighty God. 43. Wherfore lastly to shutt vp this matter , after all these proofes alleadged , we shall adioyne one only more , which howsoeuer it be esteemed of vs , yet ought it to be of singular great moment with M. Attorney , and this is the vniuersall agreement of all Protestants , both of Caluin & Luthers sect , commonly throughout the world , except only in England . And as for Caluinists the matter is cleere , if we respect France , Germany , Holland , Zeland , Scotland , and other places , who all agree in this point ; following therin their first Author Iohn Caluin , who not only in the place by me alleadged vpō Amos the prophet , but in diuers other places also of his workes , doth earnestly impugne not only this Ecclesiasticall power of a woman , but of any temporall Magistrate whatsoeuer ; affirming further in a certayne epistle of his , to his freind Myconius , that those who defend the same , are prophane spirits and mad-men , and that the Lord with the breath of his mouth shall destroy them , and that both he , and his , would encounter and fight against them with a valiant and inuincible Zeale &c. Of the same opinion and spirit , was Theodore Beza the cheife scholer and successour of Caluin , in his chayre of Geneua as appeareth by his writings , and another chiefe scoller and companion of them both , named Viretus , in his dialogue intituled , Of white Diuells , calling them false Christians and dissembled diuells that defend this false position of Princes Ecclesiasticall Supremacy , though they couer them selues ( saith he ) with the cloake of the Ghospell ; and then setteth he downe , foure or fiue arguments , to proue the position to be false , which I pretermitt to recite in this place , for breuities sake , remitting the Reader to the booke it self , for that it is exstant in English. And I doe passe ouer the writings of many other principall men of that profession , both in England and abroad , who in this point are no lesse opposite , and earnest against M. Attorney , that we , and are knowne in England by the name of Puritanes or precise Caluinists , who being the farre greater parte , if we respect all Countreyes about vs , must needs in this point be confessed to haue more reason ( the thing being affirmed so earnestly as you haue heard by Caluin himself , ) than the other of that sect , who for pleasing of tēporall princes , are accused by them to hold the contrary . For that if Iohn Caluin be to be followed in all the rest , as they confesse ; why not also in this ? And if the holy-ghost fayled him in this so important a point , as comprehendeth the whole gouerment of their Church , and the lawfull or vnlawfull vocation , and function of their whole Ministerie , what certaintie can they haue in any other thinge , or point of his doctrine . 44. But now not only those of the Caluinian sect , but others also of the Lutheranes , doe laugh at our English Protestants , for holding this position of M. Attorney , about Queene Elizabeths Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall Supremacie : wherin not to weary the Reader which enumeration of many witnesses ; I shall alleadg only one for all , but yet such a one , as may well stand for all ; For that he is the most eminent , and principall man of them all , to vvitt Mart●nus Keronitius , an ancient publike Reader of diuinity among the Lutherane Sect in Saxony , that hath written many volumes for defence of the said sect in our dayes . 45. This man then being consulted and demaunded his opinion by the Prince Elector of Brandeburg , what was to be done in certaine points concerning those of the Caluinian sect , he answereth him in a large epistle extant in print , allowing first , and greatly praysing the Princes iudgment . Quod consultum non esse iudicat , vt cum Caluinistis Generalis Synodus habeatur : That his Highnes thought it not expedient to hold any generall Synode with the Caluinists , as they desired for composing of Controuersyes betweene Lutherans , and them . 46. Secondly he addeth his owne iudgment vnto that of the Prince Elector about punishing the said Caluinists within his State , affirming . Non expedire , vt punitionis officium contrae Caluinistas intereà temporis penitus quiescat . It was not expedient that the office of punishing Caluinists should cease in the meane space , vntill the said generall Synode were held , as they demaunded . 47. Thirdly and lastly hauing resolued these two points , he passeth ouer to giue his iudgment in like manner , to the said Elector , about the Religion held in England , and of Q. Elizabeth her self , and her title of supremacy , saying first that no good thing in Religion was further to be expected from her ; that she had vsed hardly the Protestants of Germany ; that she saw and felt no● a third sect risen vp in her Realme of Puritanes , that hated both her and the other Caluinians that followed her , who were enimies in like manner to Lutherans ; So he . And then passing yet further he scoffeth merily , that she being a woman had taken vpon her to make Ecclesiasticall lawes . Et quòd faemineo , & à saeculis inaudito fastu se Papissam & caput Ecclesia fecit . That with a womanly pride , neuer heard of in former ages , she had made herself a She-pope , & head of the Church . Thus Kemnitius . And marke that he saith à saeculu inaudito that from the beginning of the world there was neuer any such thing heard of , either among Christians , Iewes , or Gentiles . 48. Wherfore we hauing now proued this our negatiue ●e Iure against M. Attorney by so many & different sortes of proofe as you haue heard , aswell out of the Canon & Ciuill lawes , as of Nature , Nations , , Mosaicall and Euangelicall , and of all the partes and members therof , as Scriptures , Fathers , Doctors of all sortes : yea , and by the testimony of our Common Municipall ancient lawes of England , and the concurrence and consequence of reason it self ; and lastly by the consent and asseueration of the best-learned Protestants of ech sorte , both Lutherans and Caluinians : I doe not see what M. Attorney wil be able to bring to the contrary to proue his affirmatiue propositions De Iure , with any shew of probability . Wherfore I shall conclude this whole Chapter , noting only to the Reader two considerations , for his better memory out of all the premisses . The one worthie of laughter , the other of teares . 49. The former is the euill lucke that M. Attorney had in making choyse of Q. Elizabeth for an example of Ecclesiasticall supremacy in a temporall Prince ; For wheras three Princes only of our Nation , from the beginning of the world , had taken vpon them this title , to witt K. Henry the 8. K. Edward the 6. and Q. Elizabeth ; M. Attorney chose the worst and weakest of all the three , to be defended . For , as for K. Henry , though by the Canon-law he were incapable of Priesthood or holy orders ( wherof dependeth spirituall Iurisdiction ) for that he was marryed when he tooke the same vpon him , and not only marryed but many times marryed , which is another Canonicall impediment ( for he was not only Bigamus , and Trigamus , but twice also Trigamus , hauing bene marryed the sixth tyme ) yet was all this in rigour of Ecclesiasticall power dispensable by the Church , being but only . Iuris humani impedimenta , & non diuini : Impediments of humane , & not diuine lawe ; and so K. Henry either by dispensation , or by occasion , that this last wife had dyed , might haue been made Priest and capable of spirituall Iurisdiction . 50. But K. Edward being a child , of 9. yeares old , and consequently vnder the vse of reason , when this supreame spirituall Iurisdiction was giuen vnto him , he was so vncapable therof , as by no dispensation it might be made lawfull , vntill he came to the years of perfect reason , and so doe proue both Canonists , & Ciuilians ; for that Iurisdiction cannot be giuen nor admitted , but where perfect vse of reason is ; for that otherwise , it should be no humane act . But yet this impediment though not dispensable for the present , would haue come afterwards to be remoued without dispensation , by tract of tyme it self , which would haue brought the perfect vse of reason . 51. But in Q. Elizabeth , in regard of her sex , no tyme , no dispensation , no authority humane , nor other circumstance could remoue the impediment or incapacity of her sex , which God and nature had layd vpon her , so as in this point M. Attorney his choyse was very erroneous ; but whether the Twynne of Ignorance were also conioyned , which before he said to be inseparable from error , I leaue to himself to consider . And thus much of this former consideration . 52. The other which I said to be worthie of greife and teares , consisteth in this , that the former position of the said Queenes Ecclesiasticall Supremacy being a thing vnpossible in it self for so many respects and causes , as before hath byn shewed , humane and diuine ; and that the very Protestants themselues of the more learned sort doe laugh at it , and condemne the same as a new inuention neuer heard of in the world before : yet notwithstanding that the same in our countrey should passe by Parlament as a matter of faith , and to Religion , and be prest vpon men by corporall oathes vnder paine of extreame punishments ; must needes be a matter of great compassion to euery pious mynd , that considereth the infinite danger of soules therby . Euery Archbishop and Bishop ( saith the Statute ) and euery Ecclesiasticall person , of vvhat estate , dignitie , preheminence , or degree soeuer he or they be ; and all and euery temporall Iudge , Ius●icer , Mayor and other lay , or temporall officer , &c. And all that s●all suc out the liuery of their lands and inheritances , when they come to lawfull age : All that shall take any order , office , benefice , promotion , dignity , or degree in the vniuersity , &c. shall make , and take , and receiue a corporall oath vpon the Euangelist , according to the tenour and effect following . I A.B. doe vtterly testifie and declare in my conscience that the Queenes highnes is the only Supreame Gouernour , &c. aswell in all spirituall or Ecclesiasticall things or causes , as in temporall , &c. So goeth the oath ; And by the last words that giue her as much spirituall Iurisdiction in all things , and causes Ecclesiasticall , as she had , or could haue in temporall , you may see how farr they extended the meaning of this power , though they left out the word Supreame head for the causes before mentioned . 53. Now then ( pious and godly Reader ) consider with thy self out of thy Christian compassion , Quae strages animarum : What a slaughter of soules ensued vpon this new deuise . And first how many thousands were forced , or allured by feare and terror , or desire of preferment to take this oath against their consciences , the far greater parte of the Realme being then Catholike , and condemning the said oath in their iudgments , and beleefe . And when afterward God styrred vp another generation , that had more care of their said consciences , and therupon refused so wilfully to damne themselues , as to take such oathes with repugnant consciences ; what troubles , what afflictions haue ensued therof in all the time of that Queene ? And among many others aboue an hundred learned preests , that in conscience were most free and innocent in all matters meant against the State , gaue their bloud for preseruation of their said consciences in that case : and now both they and shee are gone to plead their cause before the high and euerlasting Iudge . And if this matter of her spirituall supremacy were but a iest and fancy , and new deuise for for the tyme , as you haue heard the best sorte of forreine * Protestants to affirme , and as her self would sometimes merily but seriously say : then was the same both deerly bought and sold in this life by some , and will cost more deere in the other , where now the matter is in handling . 54. And this shall suffice for this chapter , and for the first head of profe De Iure , wherin you may haue seene how sparinge M. Attorney hath carryed himself : we shall now passe to the other sorte of his proofes De facto wherin consisteth the whole corpes of his booke , and shall examine whether any better substance may be found in that , then hath byn in this . The proofe wil be the tryall of all . OF THE SECOND SORT OF PROOFES NAMED DE FACTO , VVherto M. Attorney betaketh himselfe , alleadging certaine Instances therin : And first , out of our Kings before the Conquest . CHAP. V. THE whole bulke of M. Attorneyes booke ( such as it is ) consisteth ( as before hath byn noted ) in the recitall of certayne lawes , or peeces of lawes , and therfore called by him Reports or Relations of clauses , found in his Commonlawes , or Statutes that may seeme somwhat to sound against the absolute Iurisdictiō Ecclesiasticall of the Bishops and Sea of Rome , or to the restraint therof vnder certayne Kings , and in certaine occasions ; and to ascribe vnto the said Kings some Ecclesiasticall power , in those cases , as afterwards shal be seene . Wherin first is to be considered , that which before hath been obserued , that he abandoning , as it were , the first head of proofes De Iure , flyeth only to the other De facto which alwayes holdeth not : for that all factes , doe not infer necessarily the right of equity and Iustice , as before hath been shewed . And secondly , if all the examples De facto were graunted , in the sense , as by him they are set downe ; yet are they farr of from prouing his principall , as often afterwards vpon many particular occasions shal be declared . For that his said principall Conclusion is ( as yow may knowe ) that Queene Elizabeth by the ancient Common lawes of England , had as full , and absolute power , and Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , as by any spirituall or Ecclesiasticall person , had euer byn at might lawfully be exercised within the Realme . And these Instances by him alleadged doe concerne but certaine peeces , and parcells of Iurisdiction in some particular cases and causes , as by examination wil be found . Wherfore to drawe neere to this examination we must vnderstand , that M. Attorney rightly deuideth the tymes of our Kings into before , and after the Conquest ; and I shall willinglie follow him in this diuision , and search out what Ecclesiastical lawes or Ordinances there were made in those dayes , by our Kings of those ages , for his or our purpose . 2. And first before the Conquest when our best English Kings were most eminent , if we respect pietie and religion , as liuing neerer to the origen & fountaine of their first conuersion & fernour of Christian spirit : out of this tyme ( I say ) and ranke of our Christian Kings frō Ethelbert the first , to K. Edward the last before the Conquest ( for of K. Harold we make little accompt , he being an intruder and raigning so small time , and with so many troubles as he did ) they being otherwise aboue a hundred in number , within the space of almost fiue hundred yeares , two only inferences he produceth , and these of very small moment , as presently will appeare , yet let vs heare how he beginneth and what Preface he maketh to his proofes in these words . To confirme ( saith he ) those that hold the truth , and to satisfye such as being not instructed , know not the ancient and moderne lawes and customes of England , euery man being perswaded as he is taught : these few demonstratiue proofes out of the lawes of England in steed of many in order & serie temporum are here added . This is his Preface wherin he promiseth as yow see demonstratiue Proofes which are the strongest , most cleer , euident , and forcible , that logicke doth prescribe in any science : but we shal be enforced afterward to admitt proofes of a lower degree , then demonstrations , as by experience you will find : Wherefore to the matter . 3. His first instance is taken out of the words of a certaine Charter , giuen by King Kenulfus of the VVestsaxons , some two hundred and fifty yeares after the conuersion of K. Ethelbert of Kent , & confirmed afterward by K. Edwin Monarch of all England , which Charter beginneth thus . Kenulfus Rex , &c. per literas suas patentes , consilio , & consensu Episcoporum , & Senatorum gentis suae , largitus fuit monasterio de Abindon in Comitatu Bark . & euidam Ruchino tunc Abbati monasterij , &c. quandam ruris sui portionem , id est , quindecim mansias , in loco qui à ruriculis tunc nuncupabatur Culnam , cum omnibus vtilitatibus , tam in magnis , quam in modicis rebus . Et quod praedictus Ruchinus , 〈◊〉 ab omni Episcopali iure in sempiternum esset quietus ; vt habitatores ●iu● nullius episcopi , aut suorum officialium iugo inde deprimantur ; sed in cunctis rerum euentibus , & discussionibus causarum , abbatis monasterij praedicti decretis subijciantur , itae quod , &c. Thus goeth the Charter , which though M. Attorney thought not good to put in English , but to set downe both his pages in Latin ; yet wee shall translate the same , for the better vnderstanding of all sortes of Readers . K. Kenulfus , &c. by his letters parents with the Counsell , and consent of the Bishops and Councellours of his nation , did giue to the monasterie of Abindon in Barkshire , and to one Ruchinus Abbot of that monastery , a certaine portion of his land , to witt fifteen mansians , in a place called by the countreymen Culnam , with all profittes , and commodities , both great and small , appertaining therevnto . And that the foresaid Ruchinus , &c. should bee quiet from all right of the Bishop for euer , so as the inhabitants of that place , shall not be depressed for the time to come by the yoke of any Bishop , or his officers , but that in all euents of thinges , and controuersies of causes , they shall be subiect to the decree of the Abbot of the said monasterie ; so as , &c. 4. Thus goeth the Charter , which if it were all graunted by vs , as it lyeth ; yet is it far of ( as you see ) from inferring M. Attorneys conclusion , that K. Kenulfus was head of the Church , or had supreame power Ecclesiasticall . It might make it probable , that hee had some Iurisdiction in some particular case , but what or how much that was or whence hee had it , either of himself , or by delegation of another , to wit of the Popes or Cleargie that is not euident by the Charter . But let vs see , what M. Attorney can make of these words , for that lawyers commonly can make the most of matters to their aduauntage . First he will needs inforce out of his Charter , that this K. Kenulfus , tooke vpon him Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ; for thus hee writeth . By this it appeareth , that the King by this Charter , made in Parlament ( for it appeareth to be made by the Councell , and consent of his Bishops , and Senatours of his kingdome , which were assembled in Parlament ) did discharge and exempt the said Abbot from the Iurisdiction of the Bishop , &c. And by the same Charter did graunt to the same Abbot Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction vvithin his said Abbey : VVhich Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction being deriued from the Crowne , continued vntill the dissolution of the said Abbey in the raigne of K. Henry the 8. So hee . 5. In which words three things are affirmed by him , wherof I hould neuer a one to be certaine , and the last euidently false . For neither doth it appeare , by the words of the Charter , that the King did exempt the said Abbot from all Iurisdiction spirituall of the Bishop , but rather of some temporall interest or pretense that the Bishop of that Diocesse might haue , or pretend to haue in those daies . Nor doth he seeme to haue giuen Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction to the Abbot , but rather temporall concerning controuersies that might arise about the lands of the lordship of Culnam , wherof he had made donation to the said monastery . And thirdly howsoeuer this might bee , the third point and cheife conclusion is false , that he either gaue , or tooke away Iurisdiction by his owne power deriued from his temporall crowne ( for this was impossible , as before in the second Chapter of this answere hath been shewed ) but rather by some spirituall Iurisdiction , cōmitted vnto him by some other higher Ecclesiasticall power , either of his Bishops gathered togeather in Parlament , or Synod ; or of the Bishop of Rome himself : all which three points , wee shall breiflie here shew , and therby conclude that M. Attorney his inference , sett out with a Nota in the margent , is worth no note at all , but onlie of weaknes and impertinencie . 6. For first , to begin with the second , it doth not appeare by the words of this Charter , that the King did graunte to the same Abbot Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , within his said Abbey ; but only that in all euents , and discussions of causes or controuersies arising about the foresaid Lordship of Culnam , giuen vnto the said monasterie , the Tenants therof should stande to the Decree of the said Abbot , and not haue recourse to the Bishop of the Diocesse , who before , perhaps , pretended temporall Iurisdiction ouer them , or at least-wise ouer that Lordship of Culnam . And this coniecture is greatlie confirmed by a Canon of a Nationall Synod held in Hereford almost a hundered yeares before this , vnder Theodorus Archbishop of Canterbury , the 24. of September . Anno Christi . 670. and related by S. Bede : where the third Canon of the Councell decreeth thus . Vt Quacunque monasteria &c. That all monasteries consecrated to God , noe Bishop hath authoritie to inquiet them , nor violentlie to take from them any thing of their goods ; &c. wherby appeareth that some Bishops in those daies did pretend also temporall Iurisdiction ouer monasteries and their goodes , which heer K. Kenulfus would preuent in this his monasterie , to which he gaue his Lordshipp . 7. And by this also the other point is confirmed , that it doth not appeare by the force of these words , that the Abbot was exempted from all spirituall Iurisdiction of the Bishop by this Charter of the King ( though otherwise by some priuiledge of the Pope I doubt not but he was , it being a thing common lightly to all Abbots ) for he saith only : Abomni Episcopali Iure : from all right of the Bishop , and not Iurisdiction , which might be meant , as hath been said , of some temporall right pretended ouer that Lordship , and was found now not to be iust ; or for that the said Bishop in Parlamēt , or otherwise ( for M. Attorney holdeth , that all this was done in Parlament ) had renounced his temporall right therin , which before hee pretended to haue ; or that the King made this declaration of the monasteries exemption ( for he seemeth rather to haue declared what was done , or graunted , then to ordaine it himself ) by force of the foresaid Synodicall Decree of the Ecclesiasticall Councell before mentioned . 8. And truly , that the words of this Charter doe seeme rather to meane temporall , then spirituall Iurisdiction in this place ( though I doubt not ( as I said ) but that they were exempted in the one , and in the other by the priuiledges of the Sea Apostolike accustomed in such cases ) that which ensueth in the said Charter doth much confirme , to witt , that the Abbot should be quiet from the Bishops right , and that the inhabitants from thence-forward should not be depressed by the Yoke of the Bishops officers . Which importeth as much , as that they had byn vniustly disquietted & depressed before ; the same noe way seeming fittly to agree to be spoken of Bishops Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , and consequently it is not improbable , that only temporall Iurisdiction is heere talked of : and so neither spirituall Iurisdiction taken from the Bishop , nor giuen to the Abbot by the King in his Charter . 9. But howsoeuer this were , or may bee ; most certaine it is , that M. Attorney his inference and conclusion , is manifestly false ; to witt , that it vvas deriued from his Crowne . For albeit , it were euident , that the meaning heere were of spirituall Iurisdiction : yet might the King haue that power , to giue the exemption which he did to the monastery , either from the Bishops gathered togeather now in the Parlament , or before in Synod , as hath been said , renouncing all their Iurisdictiō therin : or he might haue it from the Pope , which is most likely , for that all such priuiledges , and exemptions were demaunded in those dayes at his hands , by Princes , and founders of pious workes . And the said Popes made ordinary graunts therof , ( as in our dayes also they doe ) and this is different sorte and manners : For that sometimes they graunted the same immediatly , as from themselues , sometimes they gaue comission to Princes to giue it in their names ; and some other times they confirmed that which Princes had done before in this kinde vnder ratihabition , or future allowance , or ratification by the Sea Apostolike . 10. And of all these three sorts , many examples might be alleadged , but that I shall haue occasion againe in the next Chapter to treate more largly of these points , where I shall shew , that in this very time , when Kenulfus liued , his neighbour King Ossa of the Mercians demaunding the Canonization of S. Alban the Protomartyr of England , at the hands of Adrian the Pope , as also that he might build a Monastery in the place where he was martyred , and this ( as Parisiensis saith ) Ab omni Episcoporum subiectione emancipandum . To be free , and exempted from all subiection of Bishops ; the Pope graunted both his demaunds , answering him thus , as the same author recordeth . VVe doe most willingly giue our cōsent to your petition for building of a monastery , and doe priuiledge the same ; and vvhen you haue made your Charter or priuiledge , vvee shall afterwards confirme & strengthen your Originall vvith ours , and exempt that monastery from all iurisdiction both of Bishops , and Archbishops , subiecting it immediatly vnto our Apostolike Sea. So hee . Wherby we see , that a temporall King , and founder of a monastery or other pious worke , might giue priuiledges , either by commission , or vnder ratihabition as before hath been said . 11. The like examples we finde in the liues of King Edgar and S. Edward the Confessor , and many others that demaunded & obteined confirmation and exemptions for pious works erected by them , of the Popes of their times . But for that these examples will be more fittly produced in the sequent Chapter , and fourth demonstration therof , I will remitt the Reader therunto . Only I cannot let passe to recite vnto you in this place a certaine Charter of K. Ethelbert of Kent our first Christian English King , confirmed by a Bull in lead , of S. Augustin first archbishop of Canterbury and legate of the Sea Apostolike , vnto the monastery of S. Peter , & Paul in Cāterbury erected by the said K. Ethelbert : the words of the Charter are these . In nomine Domini nostri Iesu Christi , &c. Ego Ethelbertus Rex Cantij ; , &c. In the name of our Lord Iesus , &c. I Ethelbert King of Kent , with the consent of the venerable Archbishop Augustine , and of the Princes of my Realme , do giue and graunt in the honour of S. Peter and S. Paul a certaine pe●ce of my land which lyeth in the East parte of Canterbury , to this intention only that a monastery be buylded in that place , with this condition ; that my said land be for euer in the power of the said Abbot , which there shall be ordeined . And therfore I doe adiure , and commaund in the name of allmightie God that is the iust Iudge of all ; that the foresaid gift of lands made by mee , be held for euer firme , so as neither it bee lawful for mee , or any of my Successours , Kings , or Princes , or for any Ecclesiasticall person of what degree , or dignitie soeuer , to defraud the said monastery of the same , or any parte therof . And if any man shall goe about to impeach , or diminish any point or parte of this donation : let him bee seperated in this life , from the holie communion of the body and bloud of Christ , & at the day of iudgment , for the demeritt of his malice , be sequestred from the company of Saints , and all good men . Giuen at Canterbury : Anno Christi . 605. the 8. indiction . 12. Thus goeth that Charter : and in the same forme went all other Chartes of this Kinde , wherin is to be noted first the dreadfull imprecation against all breakers therof , confirmed by the Authority of so great a Saint , as S. Augustin was : & how many lamentable inheritours wee haue of these curses and imprecations in our countrey and round about vs at this day , where all such pious works are ouer throwne . And secondly for that he saith expresly , that he did all by the counsell , and consent of S. Augustine ; it may be inferred , that whatsoeuer priuiledges he gaue , that may seeme to appertaine to Ecclesiasticall matters or Iurisdiction , he did them vnder ratihabition of the said S. Augustine , that was not only Archbishop , but legat also of the Sea Apostolike , and confequentlie had authoritie to exempt the said monastery ( as we see , he did ) not only from the Iurisdiction of all other Bishops , but of his owne Sea also , in such sorte , as no Archbishop of Canterbury had any authoritie ouer them , which is much more then the Charter of Kenulsus alleadged heere by M. Attorney . And we doe reade that the monks of Canterbury did pleade this Charter of K. Ethelbert confirmed by S. Augustine , for their liberties against the Archbishop Richard Successor of S. Thomas Becket in the yeare of Christ 1180. 13. Wherfore to conclude this matter ; it seemeth that M. Attorney hath gotten nothing at all by this his instance of K. Kenulfus , whether in his Charter he meant of temporal , or spiritual iurisdiction . For if he meant of tēporall , that is to say , that the Abbey of Abindon should be free from molestation of the Bishops officers in temporall affaires , it is nothing to our purpose , and if he meant of spirituall Iurisdiction , cleere it is , that the said King had it not of himself by right of his crowne , as M. Attorney often repeateth and vrgeth without all grounde , but either from the Bishops of his Realme , gathered togeather in Parlament : ( which seemeth very probable by the words of the Charter : Consilio , & Consensu Episcoporum : That he did it by the Counsell and Consent of his Bishops ) or that , he had it immediatly from the Pope , as we haue shewed the vse to be in those dayes , & shall doe more largly in the ensuing Chapter . 14. And that which is yet more , and seemeth to conuince the whole matter & to decide our very case in particular , I doe reade of one Bishop Rethurus who was Abbot also of Abindon , during the reigne of the said Kenulfus , who went to Rome to obteine the confirmation of priuiledges to the said Abbey of Abindon , about the yeare .812 . Romam profectus ( saith the Story ) Pontificia authoritate privilegia Canobij communiuit . He going the Rome ( by consent no doubt , of K. Kenulfus himself ) obteined the confirmation of the priuiledges of the said monastery ( of Abindon ) by the Apostolike authoritie of the Sea of Rome . And it is no doubt , that among other priuiledges , this Charter also of Kenulfus was one ; which being so , euery man may see , how much this instance hath holpen M. Attorney his cause , or rather made against him , that Kenulfus procured the confirmation of his Charter from the Pope himself . 15. And surely if in this M. Attorney committed an errour in alleadging Kenulfus for an example of one that tooke supreme Iurisdictiō Ecclesiasticall vpon him , he being so obedient and subordinate to the Church of Rome , as we haue said : much more did he erre in choosing S. Edward the Confessor , for his second instance ( for he hath but two , as before I haue said , out of all our Kings before the Conquest ) which K. Edward of all others , was most deuoutly obedient to the Sea Apostolicke , as may appeare both by that , which before we haue touched of him , as by that which after we shall more largly shew in the next Chapter , that he presumed not to found his monastery of VVestminster , without particular licence , and approbation of the Pope . In like manner , for that hauing made a vow , to goe in pilgrimage to Rome , to shew his deuotion and obedience to that Sea ; he finding afterward some difficulties therin , in respect of his Kingdome , that repined at his absence , and of the troublesome times , that then were , he remitted all first to Pope Stephen the tenth , and when he being dead , to his successour Nicholas the 2. who determined , that he should not take that voiage , but bestow the charges therof vpon the buylding of that monastery of VVestminster , to which effect both their letters are extāt in Alredus , that liued about 400. years gone , & wrote the same Kings life . The Kings letter hath this Title . Summo vniuersalis Ecclesiae Patri Nicolâo , Edwardus Dei gratia Anglorum Rex debitam subiectionem , &c. To the high Father of the vniuersal Church Nicolas , Edward by the grace of God King of England , doth offer due subiection and obedience . Wherby is euident , that if K. Edward did hold himself for supreme head , and gouernour of the Church in spirituall matters as M. Attorney would inferr vpon certaine words of one of his lawes , as presentlie you shall heare ; it must needs bee , that he was gouernour , vnder the Pope , to whome he professeth ( as you haue heard ) obedience and subiection . 16. But what proofe ( think you ) hath M. Attorney out of this King to shew , that he exercised spirituall iurisdiction by vertue of his temporall crowne ? You shall heare it all , as it lyeth in his booke ; for the whole narration is but of 3. or 4. lines taken out of K. Edward his lawes . The words are these in Latin. Rex autem qui vicarius summi regis est , ad hoc constitutus est , vt regnum & populum Domini , & super omnia Sanctam Ecclesiam regat , & defendat ab iniuriosis ; malefices autem destruat . Which M. Attorney Englisheth thus . The King , who is the vicar of the highest King , is ordeined to this end , that he should rule , and gouerne the Kingdome , & people of the land , and aboue all things the holy Church , & that he defend the same from wrong-doers , and destroy and roote out workers of mischeif . Which words , supposing them to be truly alleadged , as they lye , haue a plaine and easy interpretation , which is , that the King , as Gods minister ( for so S. Paul called also the hea-Magistrate ) must gouerne the Church , and Cleargie of his land in temporal matters ; for that they are members also of the Common-wealth , as before we shewed : In which respect they are subiect to the sayd temporall Magistrate , and in that sense to be gouerned by him , though not in spirituall things . 17. And if M. Attorney will inferre , that because the King is cal-called Gods Vicar , he hath spirituall Iurisdiction ; then may he as well inferre that the heathen Magistrate had spirituall Iurisdiction ouer Christians , for that S. Paul calleth him the minister of God , which is as much in effect as Vicar , for that the minister supplieth the maisters place . And thus you see that albeit we admit these words as heere they ly alleadged by M. Attorney , noe aduantage can be rightly inferred against vs by them . But I am forced to suspect some little fraud or shuffling to be vsed in the citation of this peece of law , and therfore I intreate the Iudicious Reader , who is learned and hath the commodity to see the Originals ; that he will examine both this , and the former instance of K. Kenulfus , in the authors whence they are taken , for I haue them not by mee . 18. The reasons of suspicion are , first for that I see M. Attorney his translation in these few lines , not to be very exact , as it will appeare to him that examineth the same ; and secondly for that I find this clause of S. Edwards law , differently alleaged heare by M. Attorney from that which is cited by Roger Houeden in the life of K. Henry the second , as also from another allegation therof by Iohn Fox in his Acts and Monuments : by all which may be gathered that the verbe regat is wrongly placed in M. Attorneys allegation , which being amended , and the said verbe placed before in his dew place , the sense is perfect ; to witt , vt Rex regnum terrenum & populum Domini regat , & sanctam eius veneretur ecclesiam , & ab iniuriosis defendat , &c. that the King rule his earthly Kingdome , and the people of God , and reuerence and defend the holy Church . Thus ( I say ) ought the words to stand , to make good and congruons sense , and not as they are transposed , both by M. Attorney and Iohn Fox to make a blind sense : who yet agree not in their allegations therof , as in the places cited you may see . 19. And this our assertion ( concerning the true sense & meaning of the former clause ) is confirmed yet further by the words of K. Edward immediatly following in the same law , omitted heere by M. Attorney , but sett downe by Fox , which are these . Quod nisi secerit , nomen regis in eo non constabit , verum , Papa Ioanne testante , nomen Regis perdet . If a King doe not perfourme the points before mentioned ( of gouerninge his people , and defending the Church ) the name of a King agreeth not to him ; but he must leese that name , as testifieth Pope Iohn . So he . And the same K. Edward in the end of this speach , doth cite the authority of the said Pope Iohn againe , saying that the wrote to Pipinus , and his sonne Charles , be●ore they came to be Kings of France , that no man was worthy to be called a King ; except he did vigilantly defend and gouerne the Church , and people of God ; So as now this gouernment of the Church which M. Attorney hitherto hath vrged so much against the Popes authority , must be vnderstood according to the meaning and sense only of Pope Iohn ; who I suppose notwithstanding will not meane that temporall Princes shall be heads of the Church , and to haue supreme spirituall Iurisdiction in causes Ecclesiasticall , deriued from their Crownes as M. Attorneys meaning is . And so you see vnto what good issue he hath brought this argument out of S. Edwards lawes , which is , that Kings haue so much gouernmēt ouer the Church , as Pope Iohn allowed them , and no more . 20. And finally let vs heare the words of Pope Nicolas the second to this verie K. Edward , concernining the gouernment he had ouer the Church ; for thus he writeth to him . Vobis verò , & posteris vestris Regibus committimus aduocationem eiusdem loci , & omnium totius , Angliae Ecclesiarum , vt vite nostrae , cum Consilio Episcoporum & Abbalum , constituatis vbique quae iusta sunt &c. We doe cōmitte vnto you , and to the Kings of England your Successours , the aduocation , and protection of the same place ( or monastery of VVestminster ) and of all the Churches throughout England ; to the end that in our name and authoritie , you may by the counsell of your Bishops , and Abbots , appoint euery-where , those thinges that are iust , &c. By which words is easie to see what gouernment and iurisdiction , K. Edward had ouer the Church of England ; to witt , by commission of the Pope & noe otherwise . By which cōmission also diuers other Catholike Princes haue had in sundrie cases cōmitted vnto them , & haue at this day spirituall Iurisdiction , as namely the Kings of Sicily doe pretend to haue had , & to haue supreme spirituall authority in that Kingdome , as legati à latere by concession of Pope Vrbanus the 2. graunted vnto Roger the Norman , Earle of Sicily aboue fiue hundered years past : to witt , from the yeare of Christ 1097. And yet will none of those that defend this spirituall monarchy at this day ( for by that name it is called ) say , that it descendeth by right of their Crownes , but by concession and delegation of Popes . And so much of this matter . HOW THE ATTORNEY NOT BEING ABLE TO PROVE HIS AFFIRMATIVE PROPOSITION , Of English Kings Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , before the Conquest : VVe doe ex abundanti proue the negatiue , by ten seuerall sortes of most euident demonstrations , that there was no such thing in that tyme , but the quite contrary . CHAP. VI. THov hast seene and considered I doubt not ( gentle and iudicious Reader ) how M. Attorney in the former Chapter hath byn grauelled in prouing his affirmatiue proposition , that our Kings before the Conquest , tooke supreme Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction vpon them , and acknowledged it not in the Pope or Sea of Rome . For proofe wherof he brought forth two such poore , and petite instances , as they being , besides their weaknes , impertinent and vntrue , and not subsisting in their owne grounds , they were no more for perfourmance of his promise of cleere and demonstratiue proofes ; then if a man being bound to pay ten thousand pounds in pure and current gold , should bring forth two mites of brasse for discharge of his band . And surely if M. Attorney should haue failed soe , some yeares gone before he was so wealthie , as that taking vpon him with so great an ostentation , to proue an affirmatiue assertion of so mayne importance , and consequence , as this is , he should haue performed no more , then he hath here done , he would neuer haue attained by law , to the preferment he hath . But now● perhaps he persuadeth himself that by his only credit already gotten , he may say what he will , and proue as little as he list ; because by only saying he shall be beleeued . 2. But on the contrary side we require proofes , & offer proofes ( gentle Reader ) & for that the matter is of singular great weight euen for thy soule , we rest not in ostentation of wordes only but in probation of deedes . And though we might remaine sufficiently with the victorie , for that our aduersarie resteth with so apparent a foyle in the proofe of his forsayd affirmatiue ; yet that you may see , and behold , as in a glasse , the difference of our cause and confidence therin ; I haue thought conuenient , out of the great aboundance and variety of proofes , that our truth hath in this controuersie ( as well as in all others betwene vs and Protestants ) to take vpon me to proue the negatiue , against M. Attorney ( which of it self is euer more hard , as you know ; than to proue an affirmatiue , except euidence of truth doe facilitate the matter , as in our case ) and to proue , and make euident by sundry sortes of cleere and perspicuous demonstrations ( nyne or ten at the least ) that during the tyme before the Conquest , no one of all our Christian English Kings , ( exceeding the number of an hundred as before hath been said ) did take vpon them either to be heads of the Church , or to be supreme gouernours in Ecclesiasticall causes , or to haue any spirituall Iurisdiction , al deriued from the right of their Crownes , or denyed this to be in the Pope , & Bishops only , or did make any Ecclesiastical lawes concerning spirituall matters ; and consequently that this Treatise of M. Attorney , Of the Kings Ecclesiasticall law , doth apperteine no more vnto them in realitie of truth , than to the man in the Moone to gouerne the heauens : For that they neuer so much a● dreamed of any such thing , nor of any one of the forsaid clauses of spirituall power & Iurisdiction , to belong vnto them , which heere shall brefely be proued , with such variety of demonstrations , taken out of their owne words , dedes , decrees , & actions , as I doubt not , but will make more then morall euidence . The first Demonstration . 3. The first Demonstration may be taken from the consideration of all the auncient lawes , 1 made by Christian Kings in our Countrey before the Conquest , euery one in his seuerall State , and Dominion , according to the tymes and places they raigned in , and gouerned their Commonwealthes , both Britanes , Saxons and Danes : and among the Saxons againe , their Kings and Princes in euery of their seuerall Kingdoms , about which point Malmesbury writeth thus , of the noble King Inas : Porrò quantus in Dei rebus fuerit , indicio sunt leges ad corrigendos mores in populo latae , in quibus viuum ad hoc tempus puritatis suae resultat speculum . How great a King Inas was in Gods affaires , the lawes which he made to correct the manners of his people doe sufficiently declare , in which vntill this day , there is seen as in a liuely glasse the said Kings purity of mynde . And the like lawes ( no doubt ) other Kings also made in their Dominions , all which remained afterwards to their posterity , vnder the names of Mulmutian lawes . For the lawes of the Britans , as also the lawes of the Mercians , called in their tongue Mercen laga , and of the West-Saxons , called VVest-saxen laga , and of the Danes named Dan laga , stood in force vntill England came to be a Monarchie , when the first authour of the said Monarchie King Egbert began first to drawe them into one body of conformity . But after him againe K. Edgar surnamed the peaceable and wise King , confirmed the same and sett them forth , but by the warrs and confusion of the Danes , which after his death ensued , they were for the most part put out of vse againe , vntill K. Edward the confessor recalled them , encreased , and made them perfect , and by the counsaile of his Peeres and Realme , did frame a new ordination of the same lawes , which remained afterwards vnder the name of K. Edward his lawes ; and were so much approued and loued by the people , as Iohn Fox also out of Mathew Paris doth affirme , that the common people of England , would not doe obedience to VVilliam Conquerour , but that first he did sweare to keepe these lawes , which oath notwithstāding ( saith he ) the Conquerour did afterward breake , and in most points brought in his owne lawes . So Fox which if it be true , yet is it to be vnderstood principally of his lawes , appertayninge vnto secular men : for that in the rest which concerned the Church , & her priuiledges , he followed absolutely the lawes of K. Edward , as in the next Chapter shall appeare , where we shall sett downe the said Conquerour his lawes in this behalfe , which are as fauourable and respectiue vnto Ecclesiasticall power and persons , as of any one King , eyther before or after him . 4. Wherevpon it followeth , that M. Attorney , who so often iterateth this worde of auncient and most auncient common-lawes of England , which as he saith ( but cannot proue ) did authorize Q. Elizabeth her spirituall Iurisdiction ouer the Church , speaketh but in the ayre and at randome , beating vs still with the empty sound of these words , without substance : For in reall dealing he should haue alleadged some one law at least to that purpuse , out of all these before the Conquest , if he had meant to be as good as his word . 5. But this he cannot doe , as already you haue seen by his two poore instances , and we doe shew on the contrary side that all these and other lawes of these dayes were for vs , in the fauour of Catholike Religion , and particularly for the liberties , franquizes , priuiledges , exemptions , and immunities of the Church and Clergie , according to the Canons and Decrees of the Popes Ecclesiasticall law , which is the very decision of our Question . For that by these phrases & clauses is signified , as in the Canon-law ( and particulerly throughout the sixt booke of Decretals may be sene ) is properly meant , that the Church and Clergie is free from all iurisdiction of temporall Princes , except only in Ciuill matters ; and that their goods and persons are exempted from Princes secular Courtes , & that they are immediatly vnder their Prelates , and they againe vnder the Sea Apostolike , vnto which may lawfully be made appeales when iust occasion is offered ; & that no lay iudge may sitt in iudgement vpon them or giue sentence ouer them , or lay hand vpon their persons or goods , but referre them to their owne Ecclesiastical Emperours , & other such points , as may be seen in the Canon-law , in the places before cited . And you haue heard before in the second Chapter of this booke , how conforme all these things are to Gods law , and how willingly they were embraced , approued , and allowed by the first Christian Emperour Constantine , and his Successours , and by all Christian Catholike Princes since that tyme throughout the world : but especially , and aboue others in comparison , by our English Kings before the Conquest . and after also , as in their dew places shal be shewed . 6. And so when the forenamed Kings Edgar & Edward , in their very first law doe sett downe and determine ( as Fox also confesseth ) that the Kings office is to keepe , cherishe , mainteyne , and gouerne the Church within his Kingdome , ( which worde gouerne I haue shewed * before to be wrongfully put in , out of his due place , and to apperteyne only to the gouernement of the Common-wealth ) with all integrity & liberty , according to the constitution of all their Auncestors and predecessours ; and to defend the same against all enemyes &c. they doe in all this , but approue and second the Popes Canon-lawes & decrees therof , for the preheminence of the Clergie , and therby they doe directly ouerthrowe M. Attorneys proposition ; & so doe all the Kings in like manner after the Conquest , who following this example doe euer in the beginning of their lawes , renew , and confirme this lawe of King Edward , for the libertyes , and priuiledges of the Church and Church men . As first the Conquerour himself , as afterwarde in the next Chapter more largely shall appeare , when we come to speake of him in particular , whose lawes are sett downe by Houaden and others , and are as effectuall for the Church , as could be deuised : & after him ( to omitt K. Iohn and others ) Henry the third , who was the chief founder of our present later Common-lawes , and author of the Great Charter . His first law likewise is for the foresaid liberties of holy Church in these wordes ; VVe haue graunted to God , and by this our present Charter haue confirmed for vs , and our heyres for euermore , that the Church of England shal be free , and haue all her rights wholie , and her liberties inuiolated , &c. 7. This Charter of K. Henry did Edward the first his sonne publishe and confirme after him , as appeareth by his owne preface prefixed before the said Magna charta . And Edward the second , that ensued after him , not only ratifyed the same , but added other Statutes also called Articuli Cleri in fauour of the same Clergie . And in K. Edward the third his tyme , I finde the same Charter confirmed and ratifyed by diuers , and seuerall Statutes , as namely in the first , second , fourth , fifth and fourtenth yeare of his raigne ; and the like in the first , sixt , seuenth , eight & nynth yeare of K. Richard the second : and in the first , second , fourth , seauenth , nynth , and thirtenth yeare of K. Henry the 4. and in the third , and fourth of K. Henry the 5. and in the sixt of K. Henry the sixt , &c. 8. And herby now though we goe no lower , may the indifferent Reader see , how vayne M. Attorneys vaunt was , and is , that he would proue , and demonstrate by the auncient lawes of our Realme , that Q. Elizabeth had supreme iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , by vertue of her Crowne . And yet hitherto hath he alleadged no one lawe at all , within the compasse of nyne hundred yeares togeather , but only certaine impertinent scraps , and raggs nothing making to the purpose , nor worthy the gathering vp , as after when we come to examine them , will appeare . And we on the contrary syde haue so many , so auncient , and so authenticall lawes , as you haue heard , and afterwardes shall be more particulerly declared , for proofe of the opposite proposition i● his , that all spirituall iurisdiction was only in Ecclesiasticall persons , both b●sore and after the Conquest vntill K. Henry the 8. his dayes . And thus much of this first demonstration concerning lawes . The second Demonstration . 2 9. The second demonstration is deduced from an other consideration not inferiour to the former ; which is , that when ● . Ethelbert of Kent ( for example ) was sirst of all other Kings conuerted to Christian faith by S. Augustine the Monke , sent from Pope Gregorie the first to that effect , vpon the yeare of Christ 600. and that by this occasion , a new Ecclesiasticall Common-wealth was to be instituted and erected within his dominion , concerning matters depending of Religion , farre different from that which passed in his Realme before when he was a Pagan , as namely ( to omitt matters of doctrine , and meere spirituall gouernment ) concerning marriages legitimation of children , burying , paying of tythes , iurisdiction of Bishops and priests , & the like that might seeme in some sorte to be mixt and concerne also the Common-wealth : to whome was the recourse made sor direction , counsaile , and ordinance in these affaires ? to K. Ethelbert think you , or to S. Gregorie the Pope ? no man will say , I think , to K. Ethelbert , for that he was yet but a nouice in Christian religion , though as capable of spirituall iurisdiction by his Crowne , as either Q. Elizabeth being a woman , or K. Edward the sixt a child of nyne yeares old when he was proclaimed Head of the Church of England , as well in spirituall as temporall affaires . 10. But in our case vnder K. Ethelbert we reade both in S. Bede and S. Gregory himself , that in all Ecclesiasticall matters , recourse was made to the said S. Gregory , as hauing supreme authority in these affayres , and therfore the said King was no sooner conuerted , & S. Augustine made Archbishop , but the said Archbishop according to his office sent two messengers to Rome , Laurentius a priest , and Petrus a Monke , to aske counsaile and direction in diuers cases ; as namely about the distribution of oblations at the aultar , diuersitye of customes obserued in diuers contreys in saying Masse ; about punishing of sacriledge in such as steale from Churches , about degrees of kinred , or propinquity to be obserued in marriages ; about ordination of Bishops , & how he should proceed with the Bishops of France and Britany ; about baptizing women with child and churching ●hem after their child-birth , and the like . 11. To all which questions S. Gregory answereth , and prescribeth in particular what is to be done , as lawfull Iudge in these matters . And to that of the French Bishops , he giueth such answeres , as therby he testifyeth that he wel knew himself to haue supreme authoritie and iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , as well ouer all Bishopps of France , as of England , and all countryes besides throughout all Christendome . For thus he wrote , as S. Bede relateth : For as much as concerneth the Bishopps of France , I gaue you no authoritie ouer them , and from the ancient tymes of my precedessors , the Bishop of Arles hath receaued his pall ; ( from the Sea of Rome ) whome we ought not to depriue os that authoritie , which from them he hath receaued , &c. 12. And the same Pope Gregorie sending the pall ( which is the proper signe of Archi-episcopal authority ) vnto the same S. Augustine of England , he appointeth him his limitts of power and iurisdiction , and what he shall doe , and giue to others , and this without any reference vnto K. Ethelbert , any way to depend of him in his said authority or execution therof . For thus he writeth vnto him : Reuerendissimo & Sanctissimo Fratri Augustino , Coepiscopo , Gregorius seruus seruorum Dei. Quia noua Anglorum Ecclesia , &c. For that a new Church of the English nation by Gods gyft and your labour , is now brought to participate of the grace of our Sauiour Christ , we doe graunt vnto you the vse of the pall in the sayd Church , only to be vsed in the solemne celebration of Masses ; we graunt you also authority to ordeine twelue Bishops vnder you , which shal be subiect to your iurisdiction , but yet s● as the Bishop which shal be ordeyned for the citty of London , shall euer afterward be consecrated by a Synod , and shall receaue also a pall of honour from this holy and Apostolike Sea of Rome ● wherin by Gods appointment I doe serue at this tyme. We doe will you also to send a Bishop to the Citty of Yorke , whome your self shall thinke good to ordeyne : but yet with this condition , that if that Citty , with other places neere about doe receaue the worde of God ; he may ordayne twelue Bishops also , and so remaine with the honour of a metropolitan : for that we doe intend God willing ( if we liue ) to giue him also the pall , whome yet notwithstanding we will haue to be subiect to your disposition , though after your death he shall so be ouer these Bishops , whome he hath ordeyned , as he be no way subiect to the iurisdiction of the Bishop of London , &c. But your Brotherhod shall not only be Superiour , and haue authority ouer those Bishops , which your self haue ordeined , but ouer those also which shal be ordeined by the said Bishop of Yorke . And so in the authority of Iesus Christ our God & Sauiour you shall haue subiect vnto you all the Priests of Brittany ; to the end that from your mouth and holines of life , they may receaue a true forme both of right belief , and vertuous life ; and therby performing their dutyes of good Christians both in faith and manners , they may come at length by Gods holy grace to enioye his heauenly Kingdome , who keepe and defend you euer , most reuerend Brother . The tenth day before the Calends of Iuly , Mauritius being Emperour . &c. the 4. indiction , anno Domini 601. 13. By this epistle , and commission of Pope Gregory , we may see what authority he tooke himself to haue , for all matters spiritual and Ecclesiasticall in our Countrey : neither did he thinke herby to doe any iniury to King Ethelbert , neither did the King take it soe , or imagine that himself had any spirituall Iurisdiction , or Ecclesiasticall authority to gouerne the Church , by vertue of his temporall crowne , more now by being a Christian , then he had before , when he was a Gentile ; but only that now he was to gouerne Ecclesiasticall persons also , in ciuill and temporall matters , and therby might rightly be called King of them both in the sense which befo●e in the second Chapter of this answere we haue declared . 14. Nay , good King Ethelbert was so far of from thinking himself to receaue any preiudice against the power and authority of his temporall Crowne , by the spirituall iurisdiction ouer him and all others , instituted by Pope Gregory ; as he infinitely reioyced therat , and presently made temporall lawes to confirme the same : hauing speciall care to prouide for the fafety , and immunity of the Clergie , as S. Bede doth signifie . And moreouer that he reduced the forme of his secular iudgements and Tribunalls , to the likenes of those of Rome . Among other good things and benefits ( saith he ) which King Ethelbert with his wisdome did bring into his nation , one was , that he appointed by the counsaile of wise men , the decrees of iudgements to be made according to the example of the Romanes , which decrees being written in the English tongue doe remaine in vse and force vnto this day . So Bede . Who liued an hundred & fifty yeeres after . And this may suffice for example of the first Kingdome conuerted to Christian religion , which was of Kent , and the countreyes round about euen vnto the riuer of Humber . 15. But if I would passe to the consideration of other Kingdoms also conuerted after this , & of their Christian Cōmon-wealthes instituted , and ordeyned according to the forme of this first , there would be much to say . For first some foure yeares after the conuersion of the sayd K. Ethelbert of Kent by S. Augustine , was conuerted by the preaching of S. Mellitus , Sebert , or ( as S. Bede calleth him ) Sabered , King of the East-saxons ; and some fiue yeares after that againe , King Sigebert of the East-angles , by the preaching of S. Felix Bishopp : and some seuenteene yeares after that againe , K. Edwyn , of the Northumbers , by the preaching of S. Paulinus . And then further some nyne yeares after that● K. Kinegilsus of the VVest-saxons , by the preaching of S. Berinus : and about the same time Prince Peda of the Mercians , or Middle-iland people , by the persuasion of the good K. Oswyn of Northumberland . And finally about some 27. yeres after all this . K. Ethelw●ld , or Ethelwalch ( as S. Bede calleth him ) of the Southsaxons , was conuerted by the preaching of S. VVilfride . 16. All these Pagan Kingdomes , as they receaued the faith and Kingdome of Christ , by the industrye and labours of spirituall and Ecclesiasticall men , that preached and instructed them , and were subordinate the one to the other , but all to the Sea os Rome : so did those Kings ( now made Christians ) subiect themselues vnto them , not only in matters of faith and beliefe , but in discipline also and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , as sheep to their Pastors , according to that which before you haue heard S. Creg●●● Nazianzen tell the Emperour of his tyme ; and herby it came to passe , that albeit these different Kingdomes had different te●porall lawes , for secular affayres before their conuersion , and reteyned the same afterward vntill England became one sole Monarchie , as in the precedent demonstration you haue heard : yet in Ecclesiasticall and Church-matters , they had all one , and the self same lawes , though they were different Kings , and enemyes for the most part , one to the other , liuing in contin●all warrs for the suspition , the one had , that the other would encroache vpon him . And yet shall you neuer reade , that any of them did goe about to punish a Priest , or Clergie man for bringing in any Ecclesiasticall ordinance , function or order from his enemyes countreyes , which is an euident argument that all was one in Ecclesiasticall matters , and consequently that these law●● and ordinances did not proceed from any of the Kings authority , in their particular Kingdomes ( for then would not the other haue receaued the same ) but from one generall body and head , which is the Church , and vniuersall gouernour therof . 17. To all which may be added this consideration of one Metropolitan , the Archbishop of Canterbury , who had the spirituall iurisdiction ouer the far greatest part of all these English King● Dominions , wherof diuers were enemyes in temporall matt●●● to the King of Kent , in whose territoryes his Bishopricke and Residence was : & yet did no one of all these other Kings except against this his spirituall authority & ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , in matters belonging to Religion , which doth euidently demonstrate that this Ecclesiasticall power of the said Archbishop , was a different thing from the temporall of these Princes , and placed in a different person ; and that all these Kings were one in acknowledgemēt of obedience vnto this spirituall iurisdiction , though in other things ech man had his temporall power and State a part . But if these powers were combyned togeather in the person of the Prince , and annexed to his Crowne and Scepter , as M. Attorney doth pretend ; then would ech of them haue had a seuerall Metropolitan vnder him , independent the one of the other , which we see was neuer attempted , but all acknowledged the said Archbishop of Canterbury , or the other of Yorke , in their districts , ac●ording to the power , and limitations giuen them by the Bishop of Rome , as already hath byn declared . And though much more might be said in this point , and many particularities alleadged , which for breuities sake I omitt , yet this already said , will suffice to shew the force of this argument . 18. One thing only I may not let passe , to aduertise the reader of , which is a certaine wyly slight deuised by M. Attorney , to decline the force and euidence of this proofe saying that albeit those Ecclesiasticall lawes were taken from others ; yet being allowed and approued by the temporall prince , they are now his lawes . But this shift is refuted by that which already we haue sett downe before . For if one & the self-same Ecclesiasticall law , receaued by seauen Kings and Kingdomes ioyntly within our land , shal be said to be ech Kings proper lawes , for that they are approued and receaued by him & his realme : then shall one and the self-same law haue seauen authors , yea more then seauenty : for that so many Kingdomes and States , as through-out Christendome shall receaue the same Ecclesiasticall and Canon-law ( for example ) made and promulgated by the generall Pastor therof : ech particuler Prince ( I say ) admitting the same , as he is bound to doe , if he be truly Catholike , shal therby be said to be the particular author therof : which is no lesse ridiculous , then if a man should say , that euery prouince in France admitting a law made by the King in Paris , should be the seuerall makers of that law . But for that I shall haue occasion perhaps to handle this point more at large afterward , I shall say no more now but passe to another Demonstration . The third Demonstration . 19. The third Demonstration consisteth in this , that in all the tyme of our Christian Kings before the Conquest , 3 being aboue an hundred in number in the space of almost fiue hundred yeares ( as before hath byn said ) all doubts , or difficulties of greatest importance , that fell out about Ecclesiasticall busines , or mē , all weighty consultations , and recourse for remedy of iustice , and decisions in Ecclesiasticall causes of most moment , were not made to the Kings of our Realme , nor to their Tribunalls , but to the Bishops of Rome for the tyme being , as lawfull iudges therof , both by the subiects and Princes themselues : and consequently those Princes did not hold themselues to be heads of their Churches , nor did thinke that they had supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , deriued from their Crownes . And this point is so euident , in 〈◊〉 the course of our ancient English histories , & so aboundant to amples doe euery-where offer themselues to this effect , as a whole booke might be made of this point only . But I shal be myndfull of breuity , and out of many and almost infinite examples name a few , obseruing also some order of tyme therin . 20. We haue said somwhat before in the next precedent demonstration , of the beginning of spirituall Iurisdiction & exercise therof in England by S. Augustine our first Archbishop vnder & Gregory the Pope ( both of them our Apostles ) who did exercise , and put in vre spirituall iurisdiction ouer all the Church of England , without reference to K. Ethelbert , though he were a Christian and a very good Christian King. And when the sayd S. Augustine dyed , he remitted not the matter to the said King , to appoint an Archbishop after him , but by concession of the Sea Apostolike , did nominate two that should succeed him in order , Laurentius and Mellitus vpon the yeare of Christ 604. as S. Bede doth testifie . And some six yeres after that againe , the said Mellitus being Bishop of London , and hauing begun to buyld a certaine Monasterie , at the west part of that Citty ( called afterward VVestminster ) intending to make it a Seminary of Bishops and Clergie-men for the spirituall help of the whole realme , he este●med it of such importance , as for that and other such Ecclesiasticall affaires , he went to Rome to take direction therin , from Pope Boniface the 4. who thervpon called a Synod togeather in Rome : de necessarys Ecclesiae Anglorum causis ordinaturus saith Bede : to ordeine what was conuenient , about the necessary occasions of the English Church . And that Mellitus had his seat and place also , as Bishop of London in that Synod : To the end ( saith he ) that he retourning into Britany , should carry the ordinations of this Synod , to be obserued by the Church os England and Clergie therof . And further he addeth , that ●●nisacius the Pope wrote letters by the said Mellitus , as well to Lau●ence then Archbishop of Canterbury , as to Ethelbert their King , and to the whole nation of English-men , though now the said le●ters be not extant ; yet herby it is euident , , what authoritie they acknowledged in those daies to be in the Bishop and Sea of Ro●● , about English affaires ; and that neither King Ethelbert of Ken● , nor King Sebert of London and Essex , being both Christian princes did repyne therat , as done against the priuiledges of their Crownes . 21. After S. Mellitus , who dyed Bishop of Canterbury , there succeeded in that Sea , by the appointment of Pope Boniface the fifth , the holy man Iustus , Bishop of Rochester before , who by his doctrine and holie life , had holpen greatly to the reduction of Eadbald King of Kent , who after the death of his good Father K. Ethelbert , by dissolute life , had fallen backe againe to Paganisme , and renounced the Christian faith . But afterward returned againe , and became a good Christian King : and presently therupon he wrote his humble letters of submission to the said Pope Boniface the fifth , as appereth by the Popes answere vnto the said Archbishop Iustus , vpon the yeare of Christ 618. related by S. Bede , where Boniface writeth : Susceptis namque apicibus filij nostri Eadbaldi Regis , &c. We hauing receaued the letters of our sonne K. Eadbald we doe fynd therby with how great learning of Gods worde , you haue moued his mind to true cōuersion & vndoubted faith . And in the same letter he signifyeth , that togeather therwith he sent him ( to wit to S. Iustus ) the pall , with authority of Archbishop of Canterbury : and further , concedentes etiam tibi ordinationes episcoporum exigente opportunitate , we doe also graunte vnto you power to ordeyne Bishops , wheresoeuer opportunity for Gods glory is offered . Neither did Pope Boniface thinke to displease or iniure K. Eadbald by writing in this sorte , or by giuing to this Archbishop S. Iustus such authority to make Bishopps ouer all England , as herby he did , without respect of his kingly power as you see . 22. And not many yeares after this againe to witt vpon the yeare of Christ 621. K. Edwyn of the Northumbers , Regum potentissimus inter Anglo-saxones : saith Malmesbury the most potent of all other Kings amongest the English-Saxons was conuerted to the Christian faith by the preaching of S. Paulinus sent thither from Kent , by the foresayd Iustus Archbishop of Canterbury , as to accompany the most Christian Lady Ethelburga daughter of K. Ethelbert , who was married to the said K. Edwyn , vpon hope of his conuersion to ensue therby , as after it did . This man then some dozen yeres after his said conuersion , desiring to haue an Archbishopricke erected in his Kingdome in the Citty of Yorke , and to haue Paulinus that was there with him , to be made Archbishop therof , not esteeming it to be in his owne power , to doe the same of himself , or by his Parlament , though he were a Christian King : whither thinke you , or to whome did he make recourse and sute to haue the same effected ? S. Bede saith that he sent an ●●bassadge to Rome , to Pope Honorius to demaund this benefit at 〈◊〉 hand , as also for so much as the foresaid S. Iustus Archbishop of Canterbury was now dead , he would appoint some other in 〈◊〉 place , and namely a holy Reuerend man called Honorius ; and that for auoyding of so often recourse to Rome in those troublsome dayes , full of warrs and daungers ; he would vouchsafe to appoint , that whosoeuer should dye first , of these two Archbishops of his district , Honorius and Paulinus ( for now the gouernment of Kent apperteyned also to Edwyn ) the suruiuer of the two , should appoint and consecrate a successour vnto him that dyed . All which demaunds Honorius the Pope graunted vnto K. Edwyn , as appereth by his answere recorded by S. Bede in these wor●● Eae verò quae à nobis pro vestris sacerdotibus ordinanda sperastis &c. As f●● the things which you hope I will ordeyne for your two priests ( Paulinus & Honorius ) we doe willingly , & with a gratefull minde , and without all delay goe about to performe , in respect of the syncerity of your faith , which by the faithfull relation of the bearers of your letters , was much to your praise insinuated vnto vs. And therfore we haue sent vnto Honorius , and Paulinus two palls of Metropolitanes , and haue ordeyned , that whosoeuer of them two shall first be called out of this world vnto his ma●●● the other that remaineth may ex hac nostra auctoritate , by this our authoritie giuen him subrogate another in his place . Which priledge we are induced to graunt , as well for the speciall affection of loue , which we beare towards you , as also in regard of so long distance of Countryes , that lie betweene you and vs &c. 23. Thus wrote Honorius the Pope to K. Edwyn in these day●● , and thus he thought of his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction ouer England , as well as other Countreys . Neither did K. Edwyn thi●●e himself iniured therby , but much honoured and obliged . And the same Pope Honorius writing at this very time , to the forsaid Honorius whome he had made Archbishop of Canterbury , by sending him the pall , ( as you haue heard ) beginneth his letter thus : Dilectissimo Fratri Honorio , Honorius : and then shewing him what authority he had sent to him , and to Paulinus Archbishop of Yorke , he hath these words : Quae pro vestrarum Ecclesiarum priuilegijs cōgr●●r● posse conspicimus , non desistimus impertire : we doe not ceasse to graunt vnto you those things , which we see to be cōuenient for the priuiledges of your Churches &c. Consider of this superiority . 24. And after this againe , about some thirty yeares , the sixth Archbishops of Canterbury being dead , whose name was Adeodatus , the two Kings of Northumbers and Kent , to witt Oswy and Egbert , being very solicitous ( saith S. Bede ) to haue a good Archbishop giuen them , that might appoint good Bishops , throughout the Realme , resolued to send a common embassadge to Rome to Pope Vitalianus , to obteyne the same . And the more to facilitate the matter , they caused an English priest , named VVighard , cum electione & consensu Sancta Ecclesia gentis Anglorum , saith the same author , by the election and consent of the holy Church of the English-nation , to be sent to Rome and presented for this effect . And togeather with him they sent certaine religions oblations & almes to the vse of S. Peters chappell , but the said Priest dying , so soone as he arriued , could not satisfie their desires . Whervpon the Pope wrote backe seuerall letters , wherof that to King Oswy began thus : Domino excellentissimo , filio Oswie Regi Saxon● , Vitalianus Episcopus seruus seruorum Dei , &c. Wherin after congratulation for his zeale and feruour , and the presents , gifts , and offerings sent to S. Peters chappell , he answereth to the busines proposed thus : We could not find out at this present , a fitt man to be made Archbishop and sent vnto you , according to the tenour of your letters , but as soone as any such person shall be found , as is apt , we shall direct him to your countrey with our instructions , &c. He that brought your tokens hither so soone as he had visited the Churches of the holy Apostles was taken away out of this life , to our great griefe . But to the bearers of these our letters , we haue deliuered for you certaine sacred reliques , to witt of S. Peter and of S. Paul , S. Laurence , S. Iohn , S. Pancratius , and S. Gregory : and vnto your Queene our spirituall daughter , we haue sent a crosse , and golden key , hauing in it some parcells of the sacred chaines , wherwith the Apostlds S. Peter and S. Paul were bound . 25. Thus wrote the Pope at that tyme , not being able to giue them an Archbishop fitt for the present , but afterwards ( saith Bede ) he being very carefull therof , and enquiring amongst learned men , whome he might choose , he first cast his eye vpon one Adrian an Abbott of a monastery neere vnto Naples , which Adrian was by natiō an African , but very skillfull in the Latin & Greeke tongue , & well instructed as well in Monasticall , as in Ecclesiasticall functions . But this man flying the dignity of Archbishop , named vnto the Pope one Theodorus a Monke , borne in Tharsus of Cilicia , as S. Paul th'Apostle also was , a man of excellēt learn●●● and vertue , whome Pope Vitalianus commaunded to take the charge vpon him of being Archbishop of Canterbury , and Metropolitan of the English Church : which thinge he refusinge for a tyme , yet at length accepted it with condition , that the forsaid Adrian should goe thither with him , and so he was consecrated , and sent with authority to create other Bishops , thorough-out England , as he did . He arriued there vpon the yeare 669. and wa● ioyfully receaued by the foresaid Kings , and Christian people , & liued twenty yeares in that sea . Neither were there euer ( saith Bede ) after the English-mens arryuall into Britany more happy tymes then these , when our nation had most valiant Christian Kings , that were a terrour to barbarous nations , and when all men desires were enflamed with the loue of Christes heauenly ioyes , lately reuealed vnto them ; so as whosoeuer had desire to be instructed in sacred doctrine , had maisters ready to instruct them ( by the diligence of this new Archbishop ) and not only this , but all English Churches also began now by the industry of the Abbot Adrian , to learne the tune of singing in the Church , throughout the realme , which before was only in Kent , &c. Theodorus also visiting the whole Realme , ordeined Bishops in all opportune places , and whersoeuer he found any thing not perfect , he by their helpes did correct the same . Hitherto are the words of S. Bede of this our Christian primitiue Church . 26. And all this now is within the first hundred yeres therof , when it was most happy , feruent , and deuoute by S. Bedes iudgement ; but much more remaineth to be said of the same , if I would consider euery particuler Kingdome , and what passed therin this first age . But if I should passe downe with like search through the other foure hundred yeares , that doe ensue befo●e the Conquest , I should not be able to conteyne my self within the compasse of this booke , and much lesse of one Chapter , and of one only argument , or Demonstration therof . For that euery where during this tyme , we shall find that all our Christian Kings , in all spiritual matters , appertaining to Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , made their recourse to Rome , or to the Archbishop● or Bishops of England , as subordinate or authorized from th●● Sea ; nor euer did they by act , worde , deed , or decree signifie that they thought to haue Ecclesiasticall power or iurisdiction to dispose of those affaires themselues , except perhaps some tymes , and of some things by commission from the other . 27. Let amongst others the wise and renowned King Edgar the first publicke author of English lawes , be an example , who hauing in hand a most important consultation , how to reforme the liues of Clergie men of this realme , but especially of certaine secular Priests in those daies , procured first that S. Dunstan the Archbishop , of Canterbury , should call a Synode about the same , who resoluing that the best meanes would be , to put in religious men , to witt Monkes into euery Cathedrall Church , in place of the other that liued disorderly , the King tooke not vpon him to doe it himself , by his owne kingly authority , or to giue commission to any of the said Bishops to doe the same , but made his recourse to Rome to Pope Iohn the 13. praying him to authorize the two holy Bishops of VVinchester , & VVorcester , to wit S. Ethelwold , and Oswald , to make this reformation , which he would neuer haue done , if he had thought , that by his owne Kinglie power , descending from his Crowne , it had belonged to himself ; or that his Parlament might haue giuen him the said authority of visiting and reforming , altering and disposing , as it did to Q. Elizabeth . 28. And this may be shewed from one to one , in all this time throughout the raignes of aboue an hundred Christian Kings before the Conquest , as hath byn sayd , if the breuity of this place did permitt me to prosecute the same . And my aduersary is not able to shew me one instance out of all this time truly & sincerly alleadged to the contrary : & in this I chalenge him , if he thinke himself able to answere me : And so shall I passe to the fourth argument , if first I recite one example more out of the second age after our conuersion , for it is of eminent circumstance , and declareth fully what was the sense of our Kings , and their nobilitie and Clergie in those dayes . 29. Next after K. Ethelbald , who was the fifth Christian King of the Mercians , and to whome S. Bonifacius ( called VVinfred before ) martyr , & Apostle of Germany wrote so sharpely to amend his life , as in all our English histories is to be seene , there succeded K. Offa , who did great matters in his dayes , and as Malmesbury writeth , had both great vices and great vertues : and among other things , he bearing a grudge to the people of Canterbury , and to their Archbishop Lambert , he pretended to seperate from the obedience of that Sea , all the Bishops , and Bishoprickes that were within the Kingdome of Mercia , which were the grea●er 〈◊〉 of the Suffraganes of that Sea , and to procure them by the consent and authority of Pope Adrian to be subiect to the bishop o● LICHFIELD , as to the chief Metropolitan of his dominion● and so many reasons he alleadged and vrged for the same , togeather with his might and power , that the said Pope Adrian ( as after you shall heare ) began to yeld somewhat to his demaund , notwithstanding the often appellations of the said Archbishop Lambert , but Pope Adrian dying , & Leo the third being chosen in his place , Offa dyed in like manner soone after , as also the Archbishop Lambert , & in Offa his place succeded Kenulphus a most noble King , and to the Sea of Canterbury for Lambert was chos●● Athelardus , that had byn Bishop of VVinchester before , one of the rarest men , if we beleeue famous Alcuine maister to Charles the Great , that euer our nation bred . 30. This Archbishop then , hauing made his appeale also to Rome , as his predecessour had done , for recouering the ancient honours , and iurisdiction of his Church of Canterbury , vsed such meanes , as at length he persuaded K. Kenulphus to be content therwith , and that himself might goe in person to sollicite the same ; and so he did , with a letter of the sayd King himself , and of all his Bishops , and nobilitie gathered togeather about that affaire : you shall heare some clauses of the said letter , and therby iudge of the rest . It beginneth thus . Domino Beatissimo &c. To the most Blessed and most louing Lord Leo , Bishop of the Holy and Apostolicke Sea of Rome , Kenulphus by the grace of God , King of the Mercians , with the Bishops , Dukes , and all other degrees of honour and dignitie vnder our Dominion , doe send salutations of most syncere loue in Christ &c. This is the title of the epistle wherin after many thankes giuen to God , for the election of 〈◊〉 good and pious a Pastor in place of Adrian deceased , he shewed the speciall reason why English men aboue others , had cause to reioyce therat , saying : Nos quoque meritò quos extremitas orbis tenc● prae caeteris gloriamur , quia vnde tibi Apostolica dignitas , inde nobis fidei ver●tas innotuit . We also which dwell in the extreme partes of the world , doe reioyce aboue other men at your election , for that whence you haue receaued your Apostolicall dignitie , the ●● haue we receaued the truth of our faith . And then he goeth forward desiring humbly Pope Leo , to giue him his Apostolic●●● benediction , to the end he may gouerne his people well ; 〈◊〉 benediction ( saith he ) all my ancestours that haue raigned ouer the Mercians , haue obteyned of your predecessours , & I doe in all humility demaund the same of you , and that you will take me for your adopted sonne , as I doe loue you , as the person of my father , and doe embrace you with all the force of obedience that I can . These are his owne words . 32. And then yet further after diuerse such speeches of piety , he commeth to beseech the said Pope to examine the matter , & to resolue the doubt , which the Archbishop Athelardus was to propose vnto him , about the iurisdiction of the Sea of Canterbury , & that the decision might be according to the Canons , and Apostolicall decrees of S. Gregory the first , who sent S. Augustine into England , and by his authority founded that Sea of Canterbury , shewing moreouer that his predecessor King Offa , was the first that euer attempted to withdraw the Bishopricks of Mercia from the obedience of Canterbury , and that ( as he saith ) for emnytie that he had with Archbishop Lambert , and for aduauncing his owne Kingdome of Mercia , by making LICHFIELD a Metropolitan . Wherfore he concludeth thus : Quare Excellentiam vestram humiles exor amus , quibus à Deo merito clauis scientia collata est , vt super hac causa cum Sapientibus vestris quaeratis , & quicquid vebis videatur nobis seruandum rescribere dignemini , &c. Wherfore we humbly beseech your excellency , vnto whome God hath worthily giuen the key of knowledge , that you will consulte with your wise & learned men about this cause , and whatsoeuer shall seeme good to you , doe you vouchsafe to write it backe vnto vs , that we may obey and obserue the same . 32. Thus wrote K. Kenulphus , vnto whome the Pope answered : Domino excellentissimo , filio Kenulpho Regi Merci●rum Prouinciae Saxoniae , Leo Papa &c. And in this letter after congratulation of the piety of the sayd King , and commendation of the Archbishop Athelard he declareth , that according to the Canons of holy Church , and institution of S. Gregory the first ( which institution he saith , he found extant in the Recordes of the Roman Church ) he determined that all the Bishops and Bishoprickes of Mercia should retourne to the obedience of the Sea of Canterbury againe , & then for more commendation , dignity , and authoritie of the Archbishop Athelard , he hath these wordes ; VVe by the authority of S. Peter , Prince of the Apostles , whose place though vnworthily me doe hold , haue giuen vnto him such preheminence , as if any one of his subiects , whether they be Kings or Princes , or any of the people , shall transgresse the commaundements of God , he may excommunicate them vntill they repent , and if any repent n●t , ( and marke that the King and his Princes also are declared to be subiect to him and to his Ecclesiasticall Censures ) let them be held ●● heathens and Publicanes . So he : And by these two examples of King Offa and Kenulphus , in their recourse to Pope Adrian and Leo the third , in so great an affaire as this was , concerning their state , & dominions , we may easily see , what accompt they made in those dayes of the Popes authoritie in like cases , and they neuer so much as dreamed , that themselues by right of their temporall Crownes , had power or right to determyne the same . 33. I might adde to this consideration of missions out of our Realme into diuerse countryes , for preaching the word of God , which allwayes was done by the Popes order and commission , & not by temporall princes , as all examples doe testifye both the sending of our Apostles , & first preachers Augustine , Laurence , Paulinus , Iustus , Mellitus , Honorius , & Theodorus into England ; as also when Germany , Frizland , and other Countries were by Gods holy prouidence and appointment , to be conuerted by English-men , Bonifacius , VVillebrordus and others , they tooke not their mission from temporall Princes , but from the Popes ; no not of the Princes of the places themselues . For when S. VVillebrord was to goe to preach in Frisia , which newly by force of armes King Pipin had subdued , Florentius writeth thus : VVillebrord , hauing obteyned licence of Prince Pipin to goe and preach in Frisia , went to Rome to aske licence of Pope Sergius , that he might begin his worke of preaching , which hauing obteyned he began the same Anno. 693. & foure yeres after he was made Archbishop of the sayd Countrey , by the Sea Apostolicke , as S. Bonifacius was of the Germanes . 34. And so much of this third demonstration might suffice , because we haue byn ouerlong already , but that I cannot well omit one other consideration of moment , to the same purpose , which is of certaine dispensations vsed to be procured frō Rome in those auncient times & afterward , for quetting of mens consciences , when any scruple fell out . As for example . When King Egbert the first famons Monarch of our English Realme , dyed vpon the yeare of Christ 839. as Stow reckoneth the yeares , though others assigne it some yeares before , there remayning vnto him one only child called Adelnulfus or Ethelwolfus , or Adulphus ( for by all these three names , there is mention of him in diuers authors ) who being brought vp Sub Sanctissimo padag●go Swithun● ( saith Malmesbury ) vnder the most holy scholmaister S. Swithyll Bishop of VVinchester , was at length made ( subdeacon ( as the same author saith ) of that Church , & some other as Stow citeth , doe affirme that he was made Bishop of VVinchester and Abbott of Geruaux : but his said Father being dead , and none other left of the bloud-royall to succeed him , he was persuaded for the publicke good of his Countrey , vpon the dispensation of Pope Leo the third , procured by his Father before ( notwithstanding his said holy Order of Subdeaconship ) to accept the Crowne , and marry , & so he did : Concedente Leone illiuis nominis tertio , ex gradu Subdiaconi VVintoniensis , in Regem translatus est . By the concession , or dispensation of Pope Leo the third he was translated from the degree of a Subdeacon in the Church of VVinchester , to the Crowne-royall . So Malmesbury . Wherevnto both he and Stow doe add , that he married soone after Iudith daughter to Charles the great King of France , by whom he had foure sonnes , which all succeeded him after in the Crowne , and he liued so long , as he sent his fourth son Alured , or Alfred a goodly young Prince at that tyme , to be brought vp in Rome , vnder Leo the fourth of that name , which began to sitt in that Sea , vpon the yeare 847. to whome K. Ethelwolfe went also after himself in person , and receaued many fauours , and spirituall graces from him . And thus doe write our auncient historiographers in this matter . 35. The other example may be of King Edward the Confessor , who hauing made a vow to goe in person to Rome , and being dissuaded from the same , by the consent of his whole realme , for the daungers of the wayes in those troublesome tymes , and for the necessity of his presence at home , was forced to aske dispensation of his vow at the handes of Pope Leo the nynth , whoe graunted the same willingly , as appeareth by his letters therof written , appointing him to bestow in almes vpon the Monastery of VVestminster , what otherwise he should haue spent in his iourney : and the same was confirmed after againe by Pope Nico●●s the second ( vnto whome the said King wrote also for the confirmation of Pope Leo his sentence ) that succeeded in the Sea of Rome , though not immediatly after the former , as by diuers clauses of both their letters which we will produce in the next ensuing chapter , doth most euidently appeare . 36. And for other two examples after the Conquest ( to omit the rest ) may serue , first that of King Iohn , who sued to Pope Innocentius the third , to be dispensed withall for his oath which he had made to the Barons of England , vpon feare and coaction as he pretended , wherof more afterward shall be said , when we come to treat of his life and raigne in particular . And the other of King Henry the seuenth , who procured from Pope Iulius the second , that notorius dispensation for Prince Henry his sonne , to marry the Princesse Katherine of Spaine , left by his brother Arthur , wherabout there was so much adoe afterward , for auoyding the force therof , when their diuorce was treated in England , and elswhere abroad . Others I omitt because these alone are sufficient to shew what opinion was held from time to time by the Kings of England concerning the Popes soueraigne supreme authority in spirituall matters , belonging to conscience and direction of soules ; farr different , yea quite contrary to that which M. Attorney would persuade his Reader . Now let vs passe on to some other Demonstrations . The fourth Demonstration . 4 37. The fourth argument , is gathered out of that which before we haue mentioned in the precedent chapter , of confirmations of Churches , Hospitalls , Monasteryes , and other pious workes , that are to be perpetuall , and of priuiledges immunityes , and exemptions , graunted thervnto ; which alwaies were demaunded of the Sea Apostolike in these dayes ( as they are now in ours ) and their foundation was neuer held for firme to perpetuity , without the said confirmation , and ratification of the Bishop of Rome , which is a signe that they acknowledged his supreme spirituall authority , and that it was not in their temporall Kings : especially for so much as the said Kings themselues , did sue to Rome for such confirmation , ratification , and spirituall priuiledges , as the workes by them founded had need of . 38. And of this , infinite examples might be shewed throughout all this tyme before the Conquest , but I must moderate my self , as well in this , as in the former ; and therfore shall touch some few only and those all as briefly as I can , for that this chapter groweth to be ouerlong . We haue shewed how King Ethelbert ●or the first Monastery that euer was in England , within foure yeares after his conuersion , procured confirmation and exemption therof from S. Augustine Archbishop and Legate of Pope Gregory : and how S. Mellitus some yeares after that , being the third Archbishop of the same Sea , went to Rome in person , about the confirmation of his Monastery of VVestminster ( by Pope Bonifacius ) and how Pope Honorius after him againe graunted priuiledges to the Churches of Canterbury and Yorke , at the petition of King Oswyn of Northumberland , & of King Egbert of Kent . And this course was held afterward by all other Kings , in the founding of Churches , Monasteries and other pious workes ; to wit that they made recourse vnto Rome and the Bishops therof , for the confirmation , ratification , establishment , priuiledges & exemptions of the same in spirituall matters , which by all likelyhoode they would not haue done , if these Kings had thought themselues to haue had sufficient authoritie , from their Crownes , to doe the same without dependance from the Sea Apostolicke . 39. We reade in S. Bede that in the time of King Egfrid and S. Theodorus before mētioned the seuenth Archbishop of Canterbury , about the yeare of Christ 680. one Biscopus an Abbot , otherwise called Benedict , hauing by the licence and liberality of the said King , builded a Monastery neere to the mouth of the riuer VVyer , went by consent of the sayd King to Rome , to aske confirmation and priuiledges of Pope Agatho : He demaunded and receaued ( saith S. Bede ) of Pope Agatho a letter of priuiledge , confirmed by his Apostolicall authority , for the defence and strengthning of the liberty of his Monastery , according to the will and meaning of King Egfrid , by whose licence and liberall gift of lands aud possessions , he had erected the same Monastery . So Bede . Who also in another parte of his workes , writing the life of S. Bertolphus a holy Abbot , saith : that in the dayes of Honorius the Pope , for that a certaine Bishop went about to molest the said holy mans Monastery , he made a iourney to Rome to demaund franquises and exemption for the same , from the said Episcopall authority : Cui praebuit ( saith Bede ) optatum munus sanctus Papa , priuilegia scilicet Apostolicae sedis , quatenus nullus Episcoporum , in praefato Coenobio quolibet iure dominari conaretur . Vnto which holy man , the holy Pope Honorius gaue the gifte which he desired , to wit the priuiledges of the Apostolicall Sea , to the end that no Bishop vnder any pretēce of right whatsoeuer , should goe about for the tyme to come , to take vpon him any dominion in that his Monastery . 40. Furthermore some few yeares after this againe , vnder Pope Sergius , there went to Rome to be baptized , the famous young King Ceadwalla of the West-saxons , of whome Malmesbury saith : Tantum etiam ante baptismum inseruierat pietati , vt omnes manubias quas iure Praelatorio in suos vsus transcripserat , Deo decimaret . He did obserue such piety euen before his baptisme , as he gaue to God the tythes of all his spoyles , which he had applied to his owne vse out of the bootyes he had gotten of his enemyes ; Of whose baptisme and death in Rome we shall haue occasion to speake after . To whome the famous King Inas succeeded both in his Kingdome and vertues . And with both of them was insingular credit , the holy Abbot S. Adelmus , afterward by the said Inas , made Bishop of Shirborne , who going to Rome with the said Ceadwalla , retourned after his death , and carried with him saith Malmesbury , Priuilegium quod pro libertate Monasteriorum suorum ab Apostolico Sergio impetrauerat , quod libens Inas confirmauit , & multa Dei famulis eius hortatu contulit , & ad extremum renitentem Episcopatu honorauit . He brought from Rome the priuiledge for the liberties , or franquises of his Monasteryes , which he had obteyned of Sergius Bishop of the Sea Apostolicke ; which priuiledge King Inas did willingly confirme , and by his persuasions did bestowe many benefits vpon Gods seruants , and last of all honoured him also with A Bishopricke ( to witt of Shirborne ) though he resisted the same what he could . 41. And moreouer he saith of the same King , & of his respect vnto the aforesaid Saint and learned Bishop ( for Malmesbury saith he wrote an excellent booke of virginity , dedicated to the Nunns of Berkensteed , wherby many were moued to that holy kinde of life ) : eius pracepta audiebat humiliter , suscipiebat granditer , adimplebat hilariter . King Inas did harken to the precepts of Adelm●● with humility , receaued the same with great estimation , and fulfilled them with alacrity . And this point concerning the priuiledges of Monasteries , fell out about the yeare 687. and in the number of these Monasteries , the same Malmesbury treating of the yeare 1140. in King Stephens time , saith that the Abbey of Malmesbury was one : and in the former , he signifieth that Inas obteyned also , the like priuiledges for diuers Monasteryes : Reg●is sumptibus nobiliter a se excitatis . Nobly erected by him with royall expences : and that the Abbey of Glastenbury was one , whose most ample priuiledges both from Popes , and diuerse Princes , were renewed and ratifyed againe largly in K. Henry the second his time , as all our historyes doe sett downe . 42. And all this hapned out in the first age of our primitiue Church , and it would be ouerlong to run ouer the rest with like enumeration , but yet some few more examples we shall touch , as they offer themselues in order . And first we read that immediately after this first age , to wit in the yeare of Christ 70● . two famous Kings , Kenredus of the Mercians , and Offa of the East-saxons , leauing voluntarily their Kingdomes , and going vpon deuotion to Rome , there to leade and end their liues , in prayers , almes , & other pious exercises , there went with them as ghostly-father and directour of that deuout iourney ( as after more largely shal be shewed ) Egwyn third Bishop or VVorcester , as Florentius declareth , who retourning home required of them , as it semeth no other reward , but that by their intercession and his owne , he might obteyne of Pope Constantine , and Charter of priuiledges , for a monastery of his , newly erected within the territory of VVorcester , which the said two Kings had endued with many temporall possessions ; and so he did , and retourned with great contentment for the said priuiledges and exemptions obteyned for his foresaid Abbey of Euesham . ( for soe it was called ) And by this we see , that he did not holde his said Abbey for secure , and well defended , by the prouisions of the said Kings , except he had obteyned also his confirmation therof from Rome . 43. Next after this we read , of the foresaid famous King Offa of the Mercians , who meaning to buylde a royall , & stately Monastery vnto the protomartyr of Englād S. Alban , went to Rome to Pope Adrian , to aske licence , confirmation , and priuiledges for the same , vpon the yeare ( as Matthew of VVestminster writeth ) 794. and among other exemptions ( to vse his owne wordes ) that he might haue it ab omni episcoporum subiectione emancipandum , that is to say , that it might be free and exempted from all subiection of Bishops : which the Pope graunted willingly , as appereth by his letter vnto the said Offa , wherin among other things he saith : Fili charissime &c. Most deare chyld , and most potent King of the English Offa , we doe commend greatly your deuotion , concerning the protomartyr of your Kingdome S. Alban , and doe most willingly giue our assent to your petition of buylding a Monastery in his memory , and doe priuiledge the same &c. Wherfore by the counsayle of your Bishops and noble men , you may make your Charter , and afterward we shall confirme and strengthen the same with our letters , and exempt the sayd Monastery from all authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops , and subiect it immediatly to this our Apostolical Sea. So VVestminster● wherby we may see that this potent King Offa did not pursuade himself that he had authoritye by the right of his crowne , to giue Ecclesiasticall exemptions to the monasteries of his realme , though they were of his owne founding : which yet M. Attorney , as you haue seene in the former chapter , would needes proue by the example of K. Kenulsus , about whose tyme as before hath byn alleaged out of Marianus Scotus , Bishop Rethurus was sent to Rome to obteyne priuiledges for the Abbey of Abindon from the Sea Apostolicke as he did . 44. But before we passe from this example of King Offa , let vs heare the words of Mathew Paris about this fact : Ipse insuper ( sayth he ) Rex Offa in quantum potuit aliquis Rex , Coenobium sancti Albani quod ipse magnificè fundauit , liberum esse constituit in temporalibus , & vt ipsum liberum faceret in spiritualibus , Romam in proprio corpore adijt . This K. Offa moreouer so much as a king might doe , made the monastery of S. Albanes , which himself magnificently had founded , free in all temporall affaires , and that i● might in like māner be free ( or haue priuiledges ) in spirituall matters , he went in proper person to Rome &c. Behold the distinction , how a King could giue libertyes , and priuiledges in temporall things , but could procure them only in spirituall from the Sea Apostolicke ; which is quite opposite to all that M. Attorney affirmeth , but let vs goe forward . 45. After this againe we reade in VVilliam of Malmesbury , of the greate and godly King Edgar , who ruled ouer all England , that he hauing a speciall deuotion to the fore-mentioned Abbey of Glastenbury , wherevnto he had giuen great possessions , sent a solemne embassage to Rome , vnto Pope Iohn the thirtenth , at the very same tyme , when there was a Synode there gathered togeather , to witt vpō the yeare 971. beseeching the said Pope , that he would confirme the priuiledges already graunted by the said King vnto the Monastery of our blessed Lady in Glastenbury , ( behold how the King graunteth priuiledges vnder ratihabition , in hope of ratification by the Pope ) and so ( saith Malmesbury ) direxit ch●rographum Regiae liberalitatis , orans vt & ipse hoc roboraret scripto Apostulicae auctoritatis . And the King directed vnto the said Pope letters written with his owne hand , testifying his princely liberality , bestowed vpon the same Monastery , beseeching that the Pope also would strengthen the same with some writing of his Apostolicall authority . Which embassadge of the Kings Pope Iohn receauing benignly , and by the vniforme consent of the Councell gathered togeather , confirmed the said priuiledges of K. Edgar by an Apostolicall rescript , and not only did he confirme that which Edgar had done before , but added diuerse spirituall priuiledges besides , saying amongst other things thus : VVe yelding to the humble petion of King Edgar , and Archbishop Dunstane , doe receaue the said place ( of Glastenbury ) into the bosome of the Roman Church , and into the protection of the blessed Apostles , endewing and strengthning the same , with diuerse priuiledges , namely that the Monkes may chuse vnto themselues a Pastor or Abbot of their owne , in whose power it shal be to prefer Monkes and Clerkes vnder him to holy orders ; that no man may molest them , take , or retayne any thing of theirs , &c. Concluding in the end thus . In the name of the Father , the Sonne , & the holy Ghost &c. euerlasting malediction to the breakers therof . Whervnto Malmesbury addeth this contemplation : perpendant ergo contemptores tantae comminationis quantae subiaceant sententiae excommunicationis . Let the contemners of so great a threat or commination consider , how heauy a sentence of excommunication they doe vndergoe . So he . A thing ( no doubt ) worthy to be remembred in these our dayes . 46 , And many more examples of like priuiledges , might be alleadged , vnder the same King Edgar , confirmed mutually by the Pope and King , and namely one related by Ingulphus , which was giuen by a Charter of the said King vpō the yeare 970. subscribed by himself and thirty two other witnesses , to the Monastery of Medeshamsteed , now called Peter-burrow : Ego Edgarus totius Albionis Basileus . &c. I Edgar King of all Albion , doe graunt most willingly that the holy , & Apostolicke Monastery of Medeshamsteed shall be free for euer from all secular causes & seruices ; & that no Ecclesiasticall or lay man shall haue dominion ouer the same or ouer the Abbot therof &c. And moreouer that it be secure eternally , from all worldly yoke ; and that it remayne free from al Episcopall exaction and molestation , according to the libertyes giuen therunto by the Sea Apostolicke , and the authority of the most Reuerend Archbishop Dunstan &c. And furthermore we haue thought good to corroborate by this Charter the said priuiledges from the Sea Apostolicke of the Roman Church , according to the first institution of the said Monastery , which whosoeuer shall presume to infringe , let him be damned eternally to hell-fyer , by the punishment of the high Iudge S. Peter & all the order of Saints . Thus far that charter . 47. And finally not to goe further in this argument wherof infinite examples might be alleadged , I shall end with one only more to shew the perpetuity , and continuance of this vse taken out of the fifth age of our English Church , to witt of King Edward the Confessor , not long before the Conquest , who hauing a great desire to enlarge the Monastery of VVestminster with new buyldings and possessions , dealt with two Popes therin , to witt Leo the nynth , and Nicolas the second , asking their approbation and confirmation therof , which they graunted one after the other . Leo wrote backe vnto him in these wordes : Leo episcopus servus seruorum Dei : Dilecto silio suo Edwardo Anglorum Regi , salutem & Apostolicam benedictionem . And then he beginneth his letter . Quoniam voluntatem tuam laudabilem , & Deo gratatu cognouimus , &c. For that we haue vnderstood your intention to be laudable and gratefull to God , &c. We doe agree vnto the same , and doe commaund by our Apostolicke authoritie , that whatsoeuer possessions you haue giuen or shal giue , vnto your said Monastery of VVestminster , it be firme , and appertayne vnto the Monkes , and that the said place be subiect vnto no other lay person , but only to the King ; And whatsoeuer priuiledges you shall there appoint to the honour of God , we doe graunt the same , and confirme the same by our most full authority , and doe damne finally the breakers therof vnto euerlasting malediction . 48. Thus Pope Leo the nynth , who dying vpon the yeare of Christ 1054. two-other succeded within the space of foure yeares , to wit Victor the second , & Stephen the tenth , after whome succeded Nicolas the second , vnto whome S. Edward made sute againe by a solemne embassage , for confirmation of his said priuiledges of VVestminster and other affayres , giuing this title to his letter , as before hath bene noted . To the highest Father of the vniuersall church Nicolas , Edward by the grace of God King of England , doth offer due subiection and obedience . Wherunto the Pope answered in these wordes : Nicholas Bishop and seruaunt of the seruaunts of God , vnto the most glorious and pious , Edwarde King of England , most worthie of all honour , & our speciall beloued sonne , doth send most sweete salutation and Apostolike benediction . And after many louing and sweet speeches in the said letter , he saith to the petition it self about priuiledges : Renouamus ergo , & confirmamus , & augemus vobis priuilegia vestra , &c. We doe renew and confirme , and encrease vnto you your priuiledges : And for so much , that this place of VVestminster , from antiquity hath belonged vnto the Kings of England , we by the authority of God , and the holy Apostles , and of this Roman Sea and our owne , doe graunt , permitt , and most strongly confirme , that the place for euer be of the iurisdiction of the Kings of England , wherin their royall monuments may be conserued , and that it be a perpetuall habitation of Monkes , subiect to no person but to the King , &c. We doe absolue the place also , from all seruice & subiection of the Bishop , &c. and whosoeuer shall goe about to infringe , or inuade , or diminishe , or vndoe any of these priuiledges , we damne him to euerlasting malediction , togeather with the traytor Iudas : that he haue no parte in the blessed resurrection of Saints , &c. Thus he . And with this shall we end this fourth consideration or argument , whereby is sufficiently made euident , if nothing else were , how vayne , and vntrue the imagination of M. Attorney was in the former chapter , who by the pretence of certayne words , in the charter of K. Kenulsus , to the Monastery of Abindon , would seeme to persuade himself , & others that our English Kings in those dayes , did take vpon them spirituall iurisdiction , to giue priuiledges , & exemptions from Episcopall authoritie vnto Monasteryes , and consequently , that they had all supreme iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , in as ample manner , as Q. Elizabeth tooke vpon her , or was giuen vnto her by Act of Parlament , which is a most euident dreame as you see . The fifth Demonstration . 49. Now then to passe to the fifth argument , 5 which maketh matters yet more manifest , the same is taken from the consideration of Appeales when any controuersie fell out , either betwene the King and his Bishops , or betwene any lay power and Ecclesiasticall , or betwene Bishops and Churches themselues ; which Appeales shall neuer be read to haue byn made in these times before the Conquest , either to the King , or to his secular Courtes , but rather to the Archbishop of Canterbury or to the Pope for the tyme being . 50. And albeit in this time of religious feruour of our Eng●●●● Kings , there were fewer occasions giuen of Appeales to the Sea Apostolicke , then after the Conquest when Kings were lesse deuout and sometymes more violent , as may appeare by the examples of S. Anselme , S. Thomas , S. Edmond all three Archbishops of Canterbury , Thurstan , S. VVilliam & Gaufred Archbishops of Yorke , S. Richard of Chichester , Hugh of Durham to speake nothing of that notorious Appeale betwene Richard of Canterbury against King Henry the third and Hubert Earle of Kent , and diuerse others , as is euident by the histories of our Countrey , in which we fynde that alwaies the Bishops for remedy of such aggrieuaunces , as either by the Kings , Nobility , or others after the said Conquest were layd vpon them , or their Churches , made their recourse for succour to the Sea Apostolicke : yet before the Conquest also though the occasions ( as I said ) were not so frequent sometimes they were driuen to vse the benefit of this remedy , as we see in the two Archbishops of Canterbury , Lambert and Athelard before mentioned , vnder King Offa and Kenulfus of the Mercians : and before that againe in the famous cause of S. VVilfryd Archbishop of Yorke who in the very first age after our conuersion , was twice put out of his Bishopricke , and forced to appeale to Rome , first by Egfryd King of the Northumbers , and then by Alfryd his successour , with the concurrence against him of certaine Bishops . And both times he appealed vnto Rome , as S. Bede declareth , and to follow his appeales , went thither twice in person , and was twice absolued ; first by Pope Agath● in a Synode of an hundred twenty and fiue Bishops , vpon the yeare of Christ 679. and the second tyme by Pope Iohn the seuenth six and twenty yeares after , to wit vpon the yeare 705. Of the first absolution , S. Bede himself writeth that he was not only found innocent , and thervpon cleered by the Pope and whole Synode ( as hath byn said ) but that they thought good likewise , to giue him his place in the said Councell , and to note his absolution , and the speciall respect borne vnto him in the very acts of the sayd Councel , holden against the Monothelites in these words : VVilfryd the beloued of God , Bishop of the Citty of Yorke , hauing appealed to the Sea Apostolike in his cause , and being absolued by the authority of this Councell in all things , both certaine and vncertaine , was placed in his seat of Iudgemēt togeather with an hundred twenty fiue his fellow-Bishops , in this Synod , and hath confessed the true and Catholike faith , and confirmed the same by his subscription , for himselfe and all the north partes of Britanny and Ireland , which are now inhabited by English-men , Britanes , Scotts , and Picts . 51. Thus relateth Bede of S. VVilfrids first appellation , and most honourable absolution in Rome , and that then retourning to his countrey he conuerted the kingdome of the South saxons , and that afterward againe , being inuyted by King Alfred , that succeeded Egfryd , to returne to his Bishopricke of Yorke , heat length vpon persuasion of good men accepted therof . But after fiue yeres he was expulsed againe by the said Alfred , and appealed againe to the Sea Apostolike , and went to Rome to Pope Iohn the seuenth ( as hath byn said ) who hearing his cause in the presence of his aduersaryes , and accusers togeather with many Bishops that did sit in Iudgemēt with him : Omnium iudicio probatum est , &c. saith Bede . It was proued by the iudgement of all , that his accusers had deuised certaine calumniations against him : whervpon he was absolued ; and letters were written ( saith Bede ) by the foresaid Pope Iohn vnto Alfred , and Edelrede Kings of England that they should cause him againe to be receaued into his Bishopricke , for that he had byn vniustly condemned . This is the summe of the story , breifly sett downe by S. Bede . But VVilliam of Malmesbury writeth the same , to witt , both these appellatious of S. VVilfryd much more at large , telling how the first persecution against this holy Bishop had beginning from the enuy of Queene Ermenburga second wife to King Egfryd of the Northumbers , who vnderstanding that his first wife Ethelreda did loue , & reuerence much this good man , she thought it a sufficient cause for her to hate him , and so incensing first the King her husband against him , by saying that he was rich , and that many gaue their goods vnto him to build Monasteryes , she drew by little & little the King to mislike him , as also she did by like meanes & sleights incense the good Archbishop Theodorus of Canterbury , to impugne and contradict him . 52. The same Malmesbury also setteth downe the particulars that passed in that Councell , wherin he was absolued at Rome , and how at his retourne into England with the Popes letters , the said Theodorus Archbishop of Canterbury repented himself much , that he had byn drawne against him , and wrote earnest letters vnto King Alfred , that had succeeded Egfrid , that he would admit him againe into his Archbishopricke of Yorke : saying among other words : Et ideo charissime te admoneo , & in Christi charitate pracipio tibi , &c. And therfore most deere King I doe warne you , and in the loue of Christ doe commaund you : Ego Theodorus humilis Episcopus , decrepita aetate , hoc tuae beatitudini suggero , quia Apostolica hoc ( sicut scis ) commendat auctoritas , & vir ille sanctissimus in patientia sua possedit animam suam , &c. I Theodorus humble Bishop ( of Canterbury ) in this my broken old age , doe suggest this vnto your Happines or Maiesty , both for that the authority of the Sea Apostolike , ( as you knowe ) doth commend it to be done , and the holy man VVilfryd hath ( according to the saying of our Sauiour ) possessed his soule in his owne patience : and most humbly and myldly forgetting the iniuries done vnto him , hath followed the example of his head and maister Christ , and hath expected the remedy at his hand ; And if I haue found any grace in your sight , although the way betweene you & me be long , yet I beseech you , let my eyes once see your face againe ( to treat of this matter ) and that my soule may blesse you , before I die . Wherfore my dere sonne deale with this holy man ( VVilfryd ) as I haue besought you , and if in this point you shew your selfe obedient to me your Father , that am shortly to departe out of this world , it will profit you much to your saluation . Fare you well . 53. Vpon this letter King Alfred being much moued permitted him to retourne to his Archbishopricke againe : And S. VVylfryd by the persuasion of the said Theodorus and other Bishopps , was induced to accept the same , and so he did for some time , but after fiue yeres , the complaints of his emulatours growing strong against him , he was forced to fly the second time , vnto King Etheldred of the Mercians , but after againe appealed to Rome , and went thither being now full threescore and ten yeares old , whence retourning absolued ( as hath byn sayd ) with letters of commendation from Pope Iohn the seauenth , both to Britwald Archbishop of Canterbury , that had succeeded Theodorus , as also to Alfred King of the Northumbers , and to Etheldred King of the Mercians ; he obteyned againe his Archbishopricke of Yorke , and held● it foure yeares before his death . 54. The letters of Pope Iohn , vnto the two foresaid Kings , doe begin with a complaint of sedition raysed in England amongst the Clergie by opposition against S. VVilfride , which he exhorteth the two said Kings to suppresse , and then beginneth his narration thus : Wheras of late vnder Pope Agatho of Apostolicke memory , the Bishop VVilfryd had appealed to this holy Sea , for the tryall of his cause &c. The Bishops at that time gathered herein Rome from diuerse partes of the worlde , hauing examined the same , gaue the definition and sentence in his fauour , which was approued both by Pope Agatho and his Successours our predecessours &c. and then sheweth he , how the same hauing succeeded in this his second appeale , he doth appoint Britwald Archbishop of Canterbury to call a Synod , and by all consents either restore him to his Archbishopricke , or to come and follow the cause at Rome against him ; and whosoeuer did not soe , should be depriued of his Bishopricke : and then concluding with this speach to the King , he saith : Vestra proinde Regalis Sublimitas faciat concursum , vt ea qua Christo aspirante perspeximus , perueniant ad effectum . Quicumque autem cuiustibet persona audaci temeritate contempserit , non erit a Deo impunitus , neque sine damno calitus alligatus euadet . Wherefore doe your royall highnes concurre also to this our ordination , to the end that those things , which by the inspiration of Christ we haue iudged for conuenient , may come to their effect . And whosoeuer vpon the audacious temerity of any person whatsoeuer , shall contemne to doe this , shall not be vnpunished of God , neither shall he escape that hurte which those incurre , whose sinnes are bound from heauen . So he . 53. And I haue thought good to alleadge this notorious example , somewhat more largely , for that it expresseth euidently , both the acknowledgement and exercise of the Popes authority in those dayes , as also the deuoute and prompt obedience of our Christian Kings and Prelates therevnto , in that holy time of our first primitiue Church . For that of the two forenamed Kings Malmesbury wryteth , that Ethelredus of the Mercians receaued the Popes letters vpon his knees on the ground . And albeit that Alfryd of the Northumbers , somwhat stomaked the matter for a time , as done in his dishonour , yet soone after being strooken with deadly sicknes , sore repented the same , and appointed in his testament that S. VVilfryd should be restored ; which testament the holy virgin Elfled his sister , that stood by him when he dyed , brought forth and shewed before the whole Synod of Bishops , gathered togeather about that matter in Northumberland . 57. And thus hauing byn longer than I purposed in this example of S. VVylfryds appeales , I will passe ouer as before I haue said , the other appeales aboue mentioned of Lambert and Athelard , Archbishops of Canterbury vnder King Offa and Kenulfus , Kings of the Mercians , vnto the Popes Adrian the first , & Leo the third ; w●● determined the great controuersie about the iurisdiction of the Sea of Canterbury , at the humble sute of the said King Kenulsus , & of all his Clergie and nobilitie ; I will passe ouer in like manner● the example of Egbert Archbishop of Yorke , who by his appealing to Rome : multa Apostolici throni appellatione , saith Malmesbury , that is by frequent appellation to the Apostolicall throne , recouered againe the preheminence and dignity of his Archbishopricke , and Pontificall pall , vpon the yere 745. which had byn withdrawen from that Church , for many yeares togeather after Panlinus his departure . And I may add further to this argument and consideration , not only that appellations were ordinarily made to the Sea of Rome , concerning Ecclesiasticall affaires , vpon any aggreiuances of particuler persons , Churches , or Societyes in those dayes , as appeareth by the examples alleadged ; but also complaints of publicke defects , negligences , or abuses , if they concerned the said Ecclesiasticall affaires , were carried to Rome , and to the Bishops of that Sea , aswell against Bishops and Archbishops , as against the Kings themselues , where occasions were offered , which Bishops of Rome , tooke vpon them as lawfull iudges to haue power , to heare , determine , and punish the same , by acknowledgement also of the parties themselues , whereof we might alleadge many examples . But one only in this place shall serue for the present , which fell out in the tyme of King Edward the elder , vpon the yeare of Christ 894. ( though others differ in the number of yeares ) And the case fell out thus . 57. The Bishop of Rome in those dayes , named Formosus the first , being aduertised that diuerse prouinces in England , especially that of the VVestsaxons , by the reason of Danish warrs , were much neglected and voyde of Bishops for diuerse yeares , the said Pope saith Malmesbury wrote sharpe letters into England : Quibus dabat excommunicationem , & maledictionem Regi Edwardo , & omnibus subiectis eim à sede S. Petri , pro benedictione quam deder at Beatus Gregorius genti Anglorum . By which letters he sent excōmunication and malediction to King Edward , and all his subiects , from the Sea of S. Peter , in steed of the benediction which S. Gregory had giuen to the English-nation ; wherof Malmesbury addeth this reason , that for full seauen yeares , the whole region of the VVest-saxons , had byn voyde of Bishops . And that King Edward hauing heard of the sentence of the Pope , presently caused a Synod of the Senatours of the English nation to be gathered , in which sate as head , Pleam●ndus Archbishop of Canterbury , who interpreted vnto them strictly ( saith Malmesbury ) the wordes of this Apostolicall Legacy sent from Rome : Wherupon the said King , and Bishops tooke vnto themselues wholesome counsaile , choosing and ordeyning particular Bishops in euery prouince of the Geuisses or westsaxons . And wheras the said prouince had but two Bishops in old time , now they deuided the same into fiue , and presently the Synod being ended , the said Archbishop was sent to Rome with honourable presents : Qui Papam ( saith our Authour ) cum magna humilitate placauit , Decretum Regis recitauit , quod Apostolico maximè placuit . He did with great humilitie endeauour to pacify the said Pope Formosus , reciting vnto him the decree that King Edward had made , for better furnishing the Countrey with more Bishops for the time to come , then euer had byn before , which most of all pleased the Apostolicall Pope . Wherfore the Archbishop retourning into England ordeyned in the Citty of Canterbury seaueu Bishops vpon one day , appointing them seuen distinct Bishoprickes : Atque hoc totum ( saith he ) Papa firmauit , vt damnaretur in perpetuum qui hoc decretum infirmaret . And the Pope ( Formosus ) did confirme this decree ( of this distinction of Bishops in England ) dāning him eternally which should goe about to infringe the same . So Malmesbury : and consider the authority here vsed . 58. The same Pope also wrote a letter to the Bishopps of England by the said Archbishop Pleamond , in these wordes : To our brethren and children in Christ , all the Bishopps of England , Formosus . We hauing heard of the wicked rytes of * Idolatrous Pagans which haue begun to spring vp againe in your partes , and that yow haue held your peace as dumme doggs not able to barke , we had determined to strike you all with the sword of separation from the body of Christ , and his Church , but for so much as our deere brother Pleamond , your Archbishop hath tolde me , that at length you are awakened , and haue begun to renew the seed of Gods word by preaching , which was so honourably sowne from this Sea in times past , in the land of England , we haue drawne backe and stayed the deuouring sword ; and moreouer doe send you the benediction of almighty God , and of S. Peter Prince of the Apostles , praying for you , that you may haue perseuerance in the good things , which you haue well begune , &c. 59. Thus went that letter with a far longer exhortation ●● that behalfe , with order and instruction how to proceed to co●tinew good Bishopps among them , which was that as soone ●● knowledge came to the Metropolitan of any Bishop dead , he should presently without delay cause another Canonically to be elected in his place , and himself to consecrate the same . And moreouer he determineth that the Bishop of Canterbury , hath byn euer from ancient times held for chiefe Metropolitan of England , otdeyened so by S. Gregory himself , as in the Roman Registers was authenticall recorded , and therefore he confirmeth the same , threatning , that what man soeuer shall goe about to infringe this decree , shal be separated perpetually from the body of Christ and his Church . So Malmesbury . 60. And in this example we see many points , expressing the sense of these ages , as first the vigilancy of the Pope Formosus ouer England , & the affaires therof ( though far remote from him , and altogether embroyled with warrs ) no lesse then ouer other Prouinces & Kingdomes of the world , which is conforme to that which S. Bede writeth of the like diligence of Pope Agatho aboue two hundred yeares before this of Formosus , that is to say , that he seing the heresie of Monethelites , that held but one only will in Christ , to spring vp and encrease in diuerse places of the world , sent one expressly from Rome into England , to learne what passed there . Pope Agatho ( saith Bede ) being desirous to vnderstand , as in other prouinces , so also in Britany , what was the state of the English Church , and whether it preserued it self chaste and vnspotted from the contagions of heretickes ; sent into England for this purpose , a most reuerend Abbot named Iohn , who procuring a Synod of Bishops to be gathered togeather about that matter by Theodorus the Archbishop , found that the Catholike faith in England was conserued in all points entire and inuiolated : of which Synod he had an authenticall copie deliuered him , by publicke testimony to be carryed to Rome . Thus S. Bede touching the attention and diligence of Pope Agatho in our English Ecclesiasticall affaires . 61. And it is to be noted , that in the same Synod is sett downe that fower seuerall Kings concurred thervnto , to giue therby satisfaction vnto the Pope , to wit Egfryd King of the Northumber● Ethelred of the Mercians , Adelnulphus of the Eastangles , & Lotharius of Kent ; which is conforme to that which the King Edward the first ●● the former example did , when presently vpon the threatning letters of Pope Formosus , he called forthwith a Councell , remedyed the fault that was committed , & sent the Archbishop Pleamond to Rome to giue satisfaction , and promise of amendment for the time to come , which is to be presumed that none of these Kings would haue done , if they had thought themselues iniured by this intermedling of the Pope , as an externall power ; and that themselues had authority Ecclesiasticall deriued from their crownes , to dispose & order these things without any reference to the Sea Apostolike . And so much for this argument and demonstration , which openeth a window to see many things more , which by me of purpose are pretermitted , for that I couet not to be ouerlong . The sixt Demonstration . 62. The sixt Argument may be deduced , 6 from an vniuersall contemplation of all the Kings , Archbishops , and Bishops that haue liued , and raigned togeather in all this tyme in England , and the seuerall Prouinces , and Kingdomes therof , before the Conquest , the Kings being in number aboue an hundred that were Christened , as often before hath byn mentioned , the Archbishops of Canterbury the spirituall heads of the English Church 32. from S. Augustine vnto Stigano , and other Bishops of far greater number , laying before our eyes , what manner of men all these were , what faith they beleeued and practised , what vnion and subordination they had in spirituall and temporall iurisdiction amongst them selues , both at home and abroad with the Sea Apostolike , which in great part hath byn declared by the precedent arguments and demonstrations . All which being layd togeather , we may inferre , that for so much as lawes are nothing else but ordinaunces and agreemenrs of the Prince and people , to the publicke good of euery Kingdome , State , and Countrey ; we may inferre ( I say ) that according as we find the faith and religion of our Princes , Bishops , and people to haue byn in those dayes , so were also their lawes . For out of their religion , they made their lawes , and consequently it must needes follow , that they being all perfectly Catholike , according to the Roman vse , as by all the former arguments you haue seene , that they made no lawes concerning Ecclesiasticall matters , nor admitted ●onceaued any from their ancestours , nor could not doe ( they being also Catholike ) that were repugnant or contrary to the Canonicall lawes of the vniuersall Church , and Sea of Rome , in those ages : wherof againe ensueth that M. Attorney that telleth vs so often of the ancient and most ancient Cōmon-lawes of England ; cannot presume to haue any law for him , and his assertion within this compasse of 466. yeres before the Conquest : for that those that should make or leaue vnto vs these lawes , were all of a contrary iudgement , and religion vnto him , in the very point which he treateth of spiritual Iurisdiction . As for example . 63. There raigned in Kent in the first age of our primitiue Church successiuely these Kings , to witt : Ethelbert , Eadbald , Ircombert , Egbert , Lotharius , Edrycus , and VVithredus ; and their Archbishops of Canterbury , by whome they gouerned themselues in spirituall matters , were Augustine , Laurence , Mellitus , Iustus , Homrius , Deusdedit , Theodorus , and Britwaldus . And in London , Mellitus , Ceddus , VVyna , Erkenwald , VValdherus , and Ingualdus . And in the sea of Rochester , Iustus , Romanus , Paulinus , Thamarus , Damianus , Putta , Q●●chelmus , Germundus , and Tobias . All these kings , with all these Bishops were of one , and the self same religion , and of one iudgement and sense in Ecclesiasticall matters , and so were all the rest of the Christian Kings , togeather with their Bishopps , in other Kingdomes of the land . And the like I might shew throughout all the other foure ages that ensue after this , first before the Conquest . And how then is it possible , that these Princes with these Bishops and Counsaylours , and with their people conforme to them in the same religion , should make or admit lawes contrary to the common sense of the Catholike vniuersall Church in those daies , concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction ? And this is a demonstration which morally conuinceth , and cannot by any reasonable man be denyed . Whervnto I may adioyne , that if they had made any such law , cōtrary to the common sense of the generall Church in Church-matters , they would haue byn noted , and reprehended for it , or at leastwise some memory would haue byn left therof by historiographers , tradition , register , or some other monument , which is not found , nor euer will be . And this shal be sufficient for this demonstration , wherby occasion is giuen to the ingenious reader to prosecute the same , and discourse further of himself , and to consider how metaphysicall an imagination that of M. Attorney is , of auncient lawes made in the ayre , and no where extant , contrary to the sense , and iudgement , both of Prince and people in those tymes . The seuenth Demonstration . 64. An other Demonstration not much vnlike vnto this , 7 may be taken from the view of externall Kingdomes , in this tyme before our English Conquest : to wit what they taught , what they beleeued , and what they practized in this point , concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , whether they deriued it , or acknowledged the same , in , or from their temporall Kings , or from their Bishops and Sea Apostolike of Rome . For if they did the later , then is it most certaine that all the Kings , Kingdomes , and people of England did the like , for that otherwise they should haue byn noted , and taxed as hath byn said for some discrepance , diuision , disagreement , sedition , schisme , or singularity in this behalfe , which is not read of . Nor can M. Attorney , or any Attorney else whomesoeuer he can take vnto him for his helpe in this matter , euer shew me any one word of auncient testimony for proofe therof , and thervpon may we confidently conclude , that there was neuer any such thing . 65. But now what was the doctrine , vse , and practise of all the rest of Christendome besides , concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , deriued from the Sea Apostolike of Rome , as the head & fountaine therof , throughout all this tyme , wherof we speake before our Conquest , it shall be inough to cast our eyes only vpon the vniuersality of all writers in those dayes , whose volumes are full of narrations , apperteyning to this effect , as namely of Bishops made throughout all Kingdomes , by ordinaunce and authority of the Bishop of Rome : Of Churches , Abbyes , Monasteryes , Hospitalls confirmed , and priuiledged by the said authority : Of Kings , and Emperours also annoynted by them and their authority for the spirituall & temporall good of Christendome . And in this very tyme , wherof we talke , happened the mutation of the Kingdome of France from Chilpericus , to Pipinus and Charles his sonne : and of the Roman Empire from the Grecians vnto the said Charles ; & of the said Empire from the French to the Germanes , by the authority of the Pope of Rome ; and infinite other publike testimonyes of supreme spirituall iurisdiction , exercised 〈◊〉 where by that Sea , with the approbation of all the worlde . And no one example can be alleadged of any such power or iurisdiction pretended , or exercised by any Prince temporall whatsoeuer , throughout all the Christian world in this tyme by vs prescribed . 66. And for so much as by this argument we presume , that our English Kings and Princes ran vnitedly in all points of religion with others abroade , for that they were neuer noted of any difference or opposition , as hath byn said , it followeth by good deduction and inference , that no such Common-law ( as M. Attorney imagineth ) could haue place among them , deriuing spirituall and Ecclesiastical iurisdiction from the right of Princes temporall Crownes , and excluding that of the Sea Apostolike . For in case that any such law had byn made , it would haue byn extant ; either by writing or tradition ; and if it had byn Common ( as often here it is called ) it would haue byn knowne by some one at least , besides M. Attorney , for that community importeth participation with many : how then could there be any such Common-lawes in those dayes , which no man knew , no man recorded , no man euer thought or dreamed of , as by all circumstances of those tymes , and men , and state of things , may be presumed ? And if any such thing had byn deuised in those dayes it must needs haue byn reiected and impugned as singular , schismaticall or hereticall ; for that it would haue byn contrary and contradictory to the common sense & iudgement , & whole current of that time . And let this suffice for this consideration . The eight Demonstration . 8 67. The eight Demonstration in this matter , may be the extraordinary deuotion of our auncient Kings before the Conquest ; towardes the Sea of Rome , in making their Kingdomes tributary thervnto , euen in temporall things also : which is a signe that they meant not to deny vnto that Sea , her spirituall iurisdiction , which from the beginning , had byn exercised by the same in our countrey , seeing voluntarily likewise they gaue her tēporall iurisdiction , in gathering and axacting this tribute of euery house throughout the Realme ; which beginning from K. Inas ( as all our Authors doe agree ) aboue 900. yeres gone , hath byn continued euer since , vnder the name of Peter-pence , for that they were first giuen to S. Peter , and to his Successours the Bishops of Rome , vntill the later part of K. Henry the eight his raigne , euen in the tyme of the Danes themselues , as presently shal be shewed . 68. And for breuities sake , it will be least perhaps to alleadge here the wordes of one that was skillfull in the matter , for that he had byn Collector or gatherer of this tribute for diuerse yeres togeather in England vnder the sayd King Henry , to whome also he dedicated his historie , to wit Polidor Virgil an Italian , Archdeacon of VVells , who out of al historiographers had gathered the grounds , and antiquities of this tribute : and in the life of King Inas of the VVest saxons , hauing shewed and declared first , togeather with all other auncient writers , how wise , valiant , and pious a King he was , and what singular monuments therof he had left behinde him , as among other the buylding of the Church of VVells , the Abbey of Glastenbury , & the like ; he finally concludeth thus : Officia eius Regis pietatis plena infinit a referuntur : & illud imprimis , quod Regnum suum Romano Pontifici vectigale fecerit , singulis argente● nummis ( quos denarios vocant ) in singulas domus impositis , &c. There are infinite good workes of this King related by Historiographers full of piety , and this among the first , that he made his Kingdome tributary to the Bishop of Rome , imposing vpon euery house a penny . And all England at this present time , doth pay this tribute for piety & religious sake to the Bishop of Rome , gathered from euery house of the whole Kingdome , and vulgarly they are called the pence of S. Peter , which the Pope gathereth vp by his officer , called Collectour , which office we for some yeres did exercise in that Kingdome , and for that cause went first of all thither . Thus Polidor . 69. Iohn Stow doth set downe many particularityes of the rich gifts of gold and siluer , vestments , & Church-ornaments , which this King Inas gaue and bestovved vpon the Church of VVells buylded by him : He testifieth also of his gyft of Peter-pence imposed vpon his Kingdome , as giuen about the yeare of Christ 705. And Polidor hath further these wordes of him . King Inas being exceeding desirous to amend , and establish the state of his Kingdome , and to instruct his subiects how to liue well and happily , did make most holy lawes , and left them to be obserued . But the wickednes of his posterity , hath by little and little worne out the same . And lastly after all this glory wherin he had raigned thirty seuen yeres , he leauing voluntarily his Kingdome w●●● to Rome for deuotion and pietyes sake , and there saith Stow liued , and ended his life in poore estate . And heare now I would 〈◊〉 whether any of these lawes made by King Inas were likely to be against the Popes spirituall iurisdiction , or in fauour therof ; And if the later may with more reason be presumed , then haue we more auncient cōmon-lawes , that is to say temporall lawes , against M. Attorney , then he can alleadge any for himself , to the contrary . 70. But to goe forward in shewing the continuance , confirmation , and encrease of this temporall tribute to the Pope of Rome , the said Polidor writing of King Offa , the most famous and valiant King of the Mercians , and shewing how wicked , & cruell he had byn first , and how godly he became afterward , hath these words : He built the magnificent Cathedrall Church of Hereford , and adorned the same with most ample gifts : he caused to be sought out the body of S. Alban , and placed the same in a monastery of S. Benedicts order built by himself ; and further he builded the monastery of Bath . And yet more for further satisfaction of his former synnes , he passed the Ocean sea , went to Rome , and there made tributary his Kingdome of Mercians , to Adrian the Pope , by imposing that tribute vpon euery house of his people , which was called Peter-pence : and this , as some thinke , by the imitation of King Inas , which had done the same some yeres before , in the Kingdome of the VVestsaxons . And this saith Polidor was done by Offa , vpon the yere 775. which was according to this accompt seuenty yeres after the other . And this King Offa was he , who made the famous Dich betwene his Kingdome & VVales , called Offa-hi●-dich , raigned thirty and nyne yeres in al prosperity , and had present with him that subscribed to his Charter , for the founding of the monastery of S. Albanes , besides his sonne , and Prince Egfryde , nyne Kings , fifteene Bishops , and ten Dukes , as Stow relateth , out of the Charter it self , dated the thirty and three yere of his raigne , and of Christ our sauiour 793. 71. And about some fourscore yeres more or lesse , after this againe King Adelnulph , otherwise called Edelnulph , or Edelph , sonne and heire to King Egbert , the first great Monarch that gaue the name of Anglia , or England to our Countrey , hauing adioyned vnto his Kingdome of the VVest saxons fiue more , to wit , that of the Mercians , Kentish saxons , East-saxons , South-saxons and VVelsh-men ; This Adelnulph ( I say ) comming to raigne after his Father , was a rare man of vertue , and left exceeding many monuments of piety behind him , gaue the tenth parte of his Kingdome to the mayntenaunce of Clergie men : sent his yongest sonne Alfred to Rome to liue there , and to be brought vp vnder Pope Leo the 4. and afterward resolued also to goe himself in person . He went ( saith Polidor ) to Rome vpon a vow , and was most benignly receaued by Pope Leo the fourth , and there he made tributary vnto the Pope of Rome , such partes of the Iland , as King Egbert his father had adioyned vnto the Kingdome of the VVest-saxons , imitating herin his predecessour King Inas : and moreouer made a speciall law therof , that whosoeuer had thirty-pence rent in possessions by the yeare , or more houses then one , should pay yearely a penny for euery house , which they did inhabite , & that this should be paid , at the feast of S. Peter and S. Paul : ( which commeth vpon the 29. of Iune ) or at the furthest at the feast of the Chaines of S. Peter , which is the first of August . So Polidor : adding that some doe attribute this law vnto King Alfred his sonne , when he came to raigne , but not truly , for that it was made by Adelnulph vpon the yeare of Christ 947. 72. Here now then we haue this tribute graunted , and confirmed by three seuer●●l Kings , the first of the VVest-saxons , yet in effect Monarch of England . And some haue noted , that as the VVest-saxons & Mercians were the first that made this offer of tribute vpon deuotion to S. Peter and his Successours , so were they the Kingdomes , that were most aduanced in their temporall felicity , and successes , and finally were vnited togeather vnder one Monarch . And that of the VVest-saxons being the first and last , that gaue and confirmed , and continued the same , grew to be the Monarch ouer all the rest . For as for the continuance , & perpetuall payment therof to the Church of Rome , throughout all tymes , there can be no doubt made , for that in the yery tyme of the Danes ( as before I noted ) King Canutus the Dane ( as Ingulphus testifyeth , which liued presently after him ) was so carefull to haue this duly payed , with other dutyes belonging to the Church , as being in his iourney towardes Rome he wrote backe to his Bishops , and other officers in these words : Nunc igitur obtestor , &c. Now then I doe beseech all you my Bishops , other officers , and all gouernours of the Kingdome , by the faith which you doe owe vnto God & me , that you will so prouide , that before my arriuall at Rome , all debts be payed , which according to auncient lawes are due . That is to say , the accustomed almes for euery plough , the tythes of beastes borne euery yeare , the Pence which you owe to S. Peter at Rome , whether they be due out of the cittyes , or the Countrey , & that by the middest of August you pay the tythes of your corne ; & that at the feast of S. Martine , you pay the first frutes of your seed to the Church and parish , in which euery man liueth , which payment is called K●ke-seet . And if these things be not performed by you before I retourne , assure your selues , that my Kingly authority shall punish ech man , according to the lawes most seuerely , without pardoning any . Fare you well : Vpon the yere of Christ 1032. So he . And marke ( good Reader ) that he saith he will punish according to the lawes , yea , and in his former words that there are auncient lawes for these Dutyes to Rome , which M. Attorney cannot bring for his assertion against the Pope , so as in auncient common lawes we are now before him . But let vs goe forward , & end this Demonstration . 73. About thirty yeres after this againe , King Edward the Confessor wrote to Pope Nicolas the second in these wordes : Ego qu● que pro modulo meo augeo &c confirmo &c. I also for some small gifte of myne doe encrease , and confirme the donations of paying such money , as S. Peter hath in England , and doe send vnto you at this time , the said money collected , togeather with some Princely gyfts of our owne , to the end that you may pray for me , and for the peace of my Kingdome , and that you doe institute some continuall and solemne memory before the bodyes of the Blessed Apostles , for all the English-nation , &c. So good S. Edward . 74. And when not long after him King VVilliam of Normandy obteyned the crowne he forgott not this law , among the rest , as afterward when we come to talke of him , and his raigne in particuler , we shall more at large declare . For his tenth law in order hath this title : De denario Sancti Petri qui Anglicè dicitur Rome-scot● of the Penny of S. Peter , called Rome-scot in the English tongue . And then he beginneth his law thus : Omnis qui habuerit triginta dena●● vinae pecuniae in domo sua de proprio suo , Anglorum lege dabit denarium , Sancti Petri , & lege Danorū dimidiam marcam &c. Euery man that shal h●u● the worth of thirty-pence of liuely money of his owne in his house , shall by the law of English-men , pay the penny of S. 〈◊〉 and by the law of the Danes shall pay halfe a marke . And this penny of S. Peter shall be summoned , ( or called for ) vpon the solemnity and feast of S. Peter and Paul , and gathered vpon the feast of the Chaines os S. Peter , so as it shall not be deteyned beyond that day , &c. thus the Conquerour in confirmation of that which other English Kings had done before him , appointing also in the same place , that his Iustice should punish them , that refused to pay the said money , or paid it not at the due day appointed . 75. And to conclude this matter , this tribute was continually paid , from the first institution therof , not only before the Conquest ( as now you haue heard ) but afterwards also by all the Norman Kings , & their Successours , vnto King Henry the 8. as out of Polidor we haue seene . And the same King Henry himself duely paid the same in like manner , for more then twenty yeres togeather , vntill he brake from the Pope and Sea of Rome , vpon the causes which all men know . Wherevpon this our Demonstration inferreth , that all this while it is not likely ( they paying so willingly , and deuourly this temporall tribute vnto the Popes of Rome ) that they denyed his spirituall iurisdiction , or held him in that iealosie of competency , for vsurping therby vpon their Crownes , as now we doe . And lastly , that the supreme spirituall authority of Queene Elizabeth without any Act of Parlament , was warrantable by these Kings lawes , which is the mayne paradoxicall conclusion of M. Attorneys whole discourse , against which we haue yet a Demonstration or two more : & so an end . The nynth Demonstration . 76. The nynth Demonstration then about this matter , 9 shall be the consideration of our English Kings their singular , and extraordinary deuotion before the Conquest to the Sea of Rome ; which was such as diuers of them left their Crownes , and Kingdomes ( after many yeres that they had raigned , and ruled most gloriously at home ) and went to liue , and dye in that citty : some in religions habit and profession of Monasticall life , as Kenredus , King of the Mercians , and Offa King of the East angles ; some in secular weed , but of most religious , deuout , and exemplar conuersation : as Inas and Ceadwalla Kings of the VVest-saxons ; some others went thither of deuotion with intention to retourne againe , as the other great Offa King of the Mercians , Adelnulph alfred , and Canutus Monarches of all England : and lastly good King Edward the Confessor had determined , & vowed a iourney thither in pilgrimage , but that his Kingdome greatly repyninge therat , in respect of the daungerous tymes , two Popes ●● and Nicolas , decreed that he should not come ( as * before we haue touched ) but rather bestow the charges of that voyage vpon some other good worke , namely the encrease of the Monastery of VVestminster . 77. And here I might enlarge my self much , in the declaration of these particulers which we haue named , and of many others , that we haue omitted in this kind ( I meane of English Kings ) that leauing their temporall Crownes , haue submitted themselues to the sweet yoke of Christ in religious life . Iohn Fox in his Actes and Monuments doth recount nyne crowned Kings , that became Monkes within the first two hundred yeres after Englands conuersion to Christian faith ( though all of them went not to Rome ) and some eighteene or twenty Queenes , or daughters to Kings or Queenes , that tooke the same course , contemning whatsoeuer pleasures or preferments the world could giue them . But of such Kings as went to Rome , and made themselues religious there , the foresaid Kenredus of the Mercians , and Offa of the Eastangles were the most famous , who agreeing togeather vpon the yere 708. ( as Florentins after S. Bede doth recount the history ) lest both their Kingdomes , wiues , children , honours , goods , and the like togeather . Relictis vxoribus , agris , cognatis , & patria propter Christum , &c. ad limina Apostolorum , in precibus , ieiunijs , elecmosynis , vsque ad diem vltimum permanserunt . They leauing their wyues , their possessions , their kynred , their countrey for Christ , went to Rome , and there neere vnto the Apostles bodyes , they perseuered in praying , fasting , and giuing almes vnto the end of their liues . 78. But S. Bede setteth forth this famous fact in other words , describing also the persons of these two noble Kings . Kenredus , ( saith he ) who for a tyme had most nobly gouerned the Kingdome of the Mercians , did much more nobly leaue the same , giuing ouer his scepter willingly to his nephew Celred , and went to Rome where he liued in prayer , fasting , and almes , vntill the last day of his life ; And with him went Offa the sonne of Sigard King of the East-saxons : Iuuenis amantissima aetatis , & venustatis , &c. a young man of a most louely age and beauty , and most singularly desired by all his nation , that he would stay amongst them , & enioy his Kigdome ; but he being led with the deuotion of his mynd , left his wife , his possessions , his kynred , and countrey for Christ and his ghospell , that he might receaue a hundred fold in this life , and in the world to come life euerlasting . Thus S. Bede , who was of a far different mynd from M. Attorney as you see . 79. And Florentius addeth further to this history , that with these two Kings went to Rome as ghostly father , and spirituall directour of their iourney , the famous holy man S. Egwyn before mentioned , third Bishop of VVorcester , and founder of the Monastery of Euesham , for which he obteyned priuiledges and exemptions of Pope Constantine then Bishops of Rome , and carried them home with him , as before hath byn declared . And Platina in the life of the same Constantine , maketh mention also of the coming to Rome of these two Kings , and what a rare spoctacle of vertue and deuotion it was to the whole Christian world , to see two such excellent Princes in their youth and beginnings of their raignes , to take such a rare resolution of leauing the world and following Christ in the strait and narrow path of perfection . 80. As it was in like manner some twenty yeres after , according to the forsaid Florentius to see the great and potent King Inas of the VVest-saxons , to come thither with like resolution of mind , who hauing byn a famous warrier , for the space of seuen and thirty yeres , in the end leauing his Empyre ( saith Florentius ) and commending the same to noble Athelard that was of the line of Cerdicus first King of VVest-saxons , he resolued to goe to the Churches of the Apostles in Rome , vnder Gregory the Pope , and there to end his life and this worldly peregrination on earth , neere to their bodyes , to the end that he might the more familiarly in heauen be receaued into their companyes . So he . 81. But Malmesbury expresseth the same in more pregnant & effectuall words after his sort : Post triumphales bellorum manubias , post multarum virtutum gradus , summum culmen perf●ctionis meditans , Romam abijt . Ibi ne pompam suae conuersionis faceret , non publicis vultibus expositus crimen , sed deposuit vt solius Domini oculis placeret , amictu plebeio tectus , clàm consenuit . After triumphant victoryes , and spoyles of warre , after the degrees of many vertues obteyned , King Inas proposing to himself the highest toppe of perfection , went to Rome , and there least his conuersion might be glorious vnto him , he did his penaunce or layd downe his synnes , not in the p●●blike eyes of the world , but rather desiring to please only the eyes of almighty God , he put himself into a vulgar habit , and ●● that he ended his life . So Malmesbury . 82. All which in effect was set downe before by S. Bede who calleth this Inas by the name of Hun that succeeded King Ceadwalla in the Kingdome of VVest-saxons , who after thirty seuen yeres raigne . Relicto regno ad limina Beatorum Apostolorum , Gregorio Pontificatum tenente , profectus est , cupiens in vicinia locorum sanctorum , &c. He leauing his Kingdome went to Rome , vnder the Popedome of Gregory , desiring to liue and dy vpon earth neere to the Apostles Churches , to the end he might enioy the better afterward their familiarity in heauen . 83. And a little before this man againe , his said predecessour Ceadw●lla tooke the like iourney to Rome , for deuotion of the place being vet vnbaptized , as S. Bede writeth the story in these words : Ceadwalla King of the VVest saxons when he had gouerned his people with great fortitude for two yeres , leauing his scepter for Christ , and his euerlasting Kingdome , went to Rome , desiring to obteyne this singular glory to be baptized in the Church of the blessed Apostles , in which baptisme he had learned , that the only entraunce to heauen for mankind did consist , hoping most certeinly , that being once baptized , he should soone after dye , and be receaued into euerlasting glory : both which points by the help of our Lord were perfourmed vnto him , as in his mynd he had conceaued , and so comming thither ( vpon the yere of Christ 689. ) Sergius being Pope he was baptized on Easter eue , and soone after being yet in his white attyre ( according to the custome of holy Church ) he died vpon the 19. of Aprill immediattly ensuing , and was buried in S. Peters Church , whose name in baptisme he had taken , and from thence his soule passed to the ioyes of heauen . Thus S. Bede ; and touching this recourse & pilgrimage to Rome he addeth in the same place : Quod his temporib●s hoc idem plures de gente Anglorum nobiles , ignobilesque , laici & clerici , viri & faeminae certatim facere consueuerunt : that in these times many of the English nation , both noble & vulgar , lay men & Ecclesiasticall , men and women were accustomed to doe the same with great feruour . 84. Wherfore out of all these considerations and the like , it seemeth we may deduce , that for so much as our English Kings , and people in those dayes were so singularly deuoted vnto the Sea of Rome , and Bishops therof , as they gaue themselues , their goods , their honours , their whole life therunto ; it is not likely that they had that conceit of Rome then , as we haue now ; or that they liued in iealosie , or competency of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction with the same , or thought themselues iniured by the spirituall power , which the said Sea did vse , and practise ouer England , and other Kingdomes of the world in those times . And much lesse can it be presumed , that they challenged to themselues , or made lawes in those dayes in fauour of their owne Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , in restraint of that of the Popes : and consequently M. Attorney I trow , will hardly proue by the most ancient lawes of those times , that Q. Elizabeth could iustify the supreme Ecclesiasticall authority , which she exercised in her dayes ; if the statute of the first Parlament had not giuen the same vnto her , which had as good authority to giue it her , as she to vse the same , according to that which you haue seene declared in the former Chapters , whereunto we referre our selues for the proofes laid downe . The tenth Demonstration . 85. And now to drawe to an end , and to ioyne issue with M. Attorney in more plaine wordes and assertion , 10 my tenth and last demonstration shall be out of two of the most noble , wise , and famous Kings of our land and Monarches of the same , before the Conquest , Alfred to wit , and Edgar , who doe expresly sett downe the contrary proposition to that of M. Attorney , about spirituall iurisdiction belonging to Kings , and temporall Princes , so as where the former demonstrations , are but deductions and inferrences , though clere and euident as you haue seene ; this last is a plaine , and perspicuous asseueration of two such renowned Kings , as were most eminent for wisdome , learning , religion , and valour of all the ranke of those tymes . Of King Alfred is recorded this speach of his : Germanam & genuinam esse Regis dignitatem dictitare solebat , si in Regne Christi , quae est Ecclesia , se non Regem sed ciuem agnosceret , si non supra sacerdotum leges se elatè efferres , sed legibus Christi per sacerdotes promulgatis , submisso se atque humili animo subderet . He was wont to say , that the true and proper dignity of a King , consisted principally in this , that in the Kingdome of Christ which is his Church , he bare himself not as a King , but as a citizen , and that he should not arrogantly lift vp himself abou● the lawes of Priests , but rather with a lowly and humble minde , subiect himself to the lawes of Christ promulgated by Priests . So he . 86. But now touching King Edgar about a hundred yeares after him , of whome Florentius , Marianus , and others doe write these wordes : That he was the Monarch of the English world , the flower & ornament of all his predecessours , the peaceable King , no lesse memorable to English-men ; then Romulus to the Romanes , Tyrus to the Persians , Alexander to the Macedonians , Arsaces to the Parthians , and Charles the great vnto the French. Of this man , I say , we haue extant a certaine oration of his , made in the third yeare of his raigne , vnto the Bishops of his land , gathered togeather for reformation of the Clergie , wherof S. Dunstane Archbishop of Canterbury was the chief , and with him was S. Ethelw●ld B. of VVincester . His oration is somewhat long , and beginneth thus : Quoniam magnificauit Dominus misericordiam suam facere nobiscum : dignum est Patres Reuerendissimi , vt innumeris illius beneficijs , dignis responde amus operibus . Neque enim in gladio nostro &c. 87. For so much as our Lord hath exalted his mercy towardes vs , it is conuenient most Reuerend Fathers , that we endeauour to answere his innumerable benefitts , with dew workes on our behalfe ; for that as the prophet saith , we doe not possesse this land by our owne sword , nor shall the strength of our arme saue vs , but the right hand , and holy arme of him , that hath vouchsafed to take vs to his fauour : And therfore it is iust and right , that for so much , as he hath subiected all vnder our feete , that we subiect our soules vnto him , in such sort , as that we endeauour to bring them that he hath put vnder vs , to be subiect also vnto his lawes : and as for me , my part is to gouerne lay men by the law of equity , to doe iust iudgement betweene euery man and his neighbour , to punishe sacrilegious men , to represse rebells , to take the poore man out of the hand of his stronger , and deliuer the needy and impotent from such as oppresse and spoile them . It belongeth also to my solicitude , to prouide necessaries for Ministers of Gods Churches , couents of Monkes , cloysters of virgins , & to procure them peace and quietnes to serue God● But vnto you it apperteyneth , to make inquiry examination of their manners , if they liue continently , if they behaue themselues decently , and with edification towards them that be in the world , if they be solicitous in seruing God , vigilant in teaching the people , sober in diet , moderate in habit , and the like . So he . 88. And then after a long complaint of many disorders in those dayes , crept into diuers of the Clergie , the good zealous King hath these words : These scandalous things are proclaimed euery where by souldiers , muttered by the people , sung by players , and will you ( reuerend Fathers ) neglect , dissemble , & spare them that so offend ? where is the sword of Leui ? where the zeale of Simeon ? where is the spirit of Moyses ? where the sword of Phinees the Priest ? Yea , where is the spirit , and feruour of S. Peter wherby he so dreadfully punished both auarice and heresie ? follow him , follow him ô you Priests : tempus faciendi contra eos qui dissipauerunt legem Dei : it is high tyme to punish those , that haue dissipated the law of God by their euill life : Ego Constantini , vos Petri gladium habetis in membus , iungamus dexteras , gladium gladio copulemus . I haue the sword of Constantine , you the sword of S. Peter in your hands , let vs ioyne our forces , and couple sword to sword : vt eijciantur extra castra leprosi , that leaprous and infectious people be cast out of the tents of God , &c. Thus this noble & pious K. pronoūced in the presence of his Prelates and people , with much more , which for breuity I doe omitt . 89. And now M. Attorney will see heere what accompt these two auncient Kings made of these two powers and swordes , spirituall and temporall , and of their distinction and subordination the one to the other . And it seemeth that this speach of King Edgar , was so memorable and famous to all his posterity , that VVilliam Conquerour also did imitate the very same , when in certaine lawes of his , ordeyning , that such lay men as were disobedient to the Bishops sentence , should be punished by his temporall officers ; he vseth this phrase of Edgar saying : Rex constringit malefactorem , vt emendet primùm Episcopo , deinde Regi ; & sic erunt ibi duo gladij , & gladius gladium i●uabit . The King shall compell the malefactor to make amends first to the Bishop , and then to the King , and so shall there be two swordes , and the one sword shall assist the other . Where we see that he did subordinate his owne sword to that of the Bishops , and Ecclesiasticall power of the Church . And the self same manner of speach and forme of beliefe , as common to the whole world , did Queene Eleanor wife to King 〈◊〉 the second , vse in her epistle to Celest●nus the Pope , when she ●● treated him to excommunicate the Emperour and Duke of ●●stria , for deteining her sonne K. Richard the first prisoner ; which letter was written by Petrus Blesensis , and hath these words ; Chrisicrux antecellit Caesaris aquilas , gladius Petri gladio Constantini , & Apostolius sedes praeiudicat Imperatoriae potestati . The crosse of Christ excelleth the spread-eagles in Cesars banners , the sword of Peter is of more eminent power then the sword of Constantine ; and the Sea Apostolike is more potent then any Imperiall authority . And this was the opinion , sense , and iudgement of these Princes and tymes , wherin they made this difference & degree of these two swordes , without any such preiudice of taking away halfe their Monarchies from themselues , or other Princes therby , as M. Attorney and other such Prince-flatterers doe pretend . The Conclusion vpon the former Demonstrations . 90. Now therfore ( gentle Reader ) by these ten demonstrations thou hast seene , what was the opinion , iudgement , and practise of all our ancient English Kings before the Conquest about this point of temporall and spirituall power and authority , and heare I thinke thou wilt not deny , but that my manner of proofe is , and hath byn according to the rule of the Fathers touched before in the answere to the preface , to wit , KATH'HOLON or secundum totum , bringing forth the whole body of this tyme ; & that M. Attorneys proofe , if it had byn a proofe , that is to say , if he had proued that which he propounded , is secundum partem according to a part , he only alleadging two sole petite instances , out of all the ranke of aboue an hundred Kings , for the space almost of fiue hundred yeares ; and these two also so weake and impertinent , as no waye they can subsist in the sense wherin he alleadgeth them . And herwithall in like manner , thou mayst pleas● to call to remembraunce the auncient obseruation of old Tertullian , aboue forteene hundred yeares gone : Solem● est heretick , &c. It is a solemne tricke of heretickes , by the occasion of some one doubtfull sentence or clause , to wrest matters contra exercitum sententiarum , against a whole army of sentences to the contrary . And S. Cyprian in the next age after him , noteth the like audacity of hereticke of his tyme , that would take a part and leaue out a part , and preferre some peece or parch before the whole . And whether M. Attorney doe not follow the same spirit heere , in peeping forth with two little miserable mistaken instances , out of so great an army of plaine testimonyes to the contrary , you haue already seene , and out of your wisdome will easily iudge . The like or worse dealing will you find afterward , when we shall haue passed the Conquest , whervnto now we hasten , and for the euent I remit my self to the experience . OF THE KINGS AFTER THE CONQVEST VNTO OVR TYMES : And first of the Conquerour himself , whether he tooke spirituall iurisdiction vpon him , or no , by vertue of his Crowne , and temporall authority . CHAP. VII . HAVING pervsed what passed among our Kings before the Conquest , ( to which pervse & veiw we were led by M. Attorneys induction of two instances of those dayes , as you haue seen ) we are now to follow him also beneath the said Conquest , for tryall of our controversie , where albeit , as before I haue noted , the further wee goe from the origen of our English conuersion , and heate of that primitiue spirit of deuotion , that God gaue our Kings in those first ages of their said conuersion to Christian religion , the more coldnes we shall find in some cases , and more worldly and secular spirit in diuers of our Norman and French Princes , then wa●● the English before them : yet for the substance of this point of controuersie between M. Attorney and mee , about the acknowledgement of the Popes authority Ecclesiasticall , we shall find them in effect no lesse resolute , then the other , if you respect the substance of the thing it self , though in tendernesse of piety and deuotion , their different liues and courses ( as after you shall se ) be witnesses vnto vs of no small difference . 2. And this is seen in none more then in K. VVilliam the first himself , the head & stocke of al the rest , who though in life & action , as a warryer and Conqueror , were rough , fierce , & boysterous , especially in the former years of his raigne ouer Englād , wherin vpō ielosy of his vnsetled state he did many things de facto which were not so iustifiable de Iure ; for which Authors doe note , that he was greatly punished by God , both in himself & in his children and childrens children : yet in this point of true & substantiall obedience to the Church , when he was void of passion , and out of occasion of any cōstraining necessity , he all-wayes shewed himself dutifull , respectiue , & humble towards the said Church : according to his Oath taken at his Coronation before the Altar of S. Peter at VVestminster , se velle Sanctas Dei Ecclesias , ac rectores defendere ( saith Florentius ) that he would defend the holy Churches of God , and the gouernours therof , which to haue perfourmed he professed also at his death with teares , as Iohn Stow & more auncient writers then he , doe beare him witnes ; & some are of opinion , that the long continuance of his line in the Crowne of England , considering how he entered , & how some of them haue gouerned after him , may principally be ascribed vnto this , that he would not take in hand the enterprice of England , but that first it should be consulted , and approued by the Sea Apostolike at at Rome , as presently you shall heare that it was , and for that himself so firmely relied vpon the same afterward , in all his greatest occasions , and recommended the same , especially to his sonnes on his death-bed , when he was free from these interests , which oftentimes before drew and wrested him to diuers actions , which in that last houre he approued not , but condemned and much bewayled . 3. And of this later point many examples might be alleadged , both of much bloudshed in England , of spoiling and destroying the countrey , of casting downe many townes and Churches for enlarging his hunting , of vexing and oppressing the English-nation , of ryfling and spoyling monasteryes and Churches , where the English had hidden some of their wealth to maintaine themselues withall , his detayning in prison all dayes of his life the Archbishop Stigand , and diuers other Bishops and Abbots , deposed in the Councell at VVinchester by Pope Alexander his legats , in the fourth yeare of his raigne , and of his brother Otho Bishop of Baion held in prison by him ; albeit this , concerning Ecclesiasticall persons , he professed to doe by licence and commission of the Sea Apostolike : yet in truth the cheife cause was his owne vehement passion , and ielousie of his temporall estate ; For I find a letter of Pope Gregory the seauenth , that succeeded Alexander the second , written vnto him vpon the yeare of Christ 1084. which was the 18. of K. VVilliams raigne , wherin the said Pope , though praising his religious zeale in other things ( which he would neuer haue done , if he had byn opposite to his authority , and iurisdiction ) yet doth he reprehend greatly this violent seuerity , towards Ecclesiasticall persons . One thing ( saith he ) among so many excellent monuments of your royall vertues , doth greatly mislike and afflict me , and contristate my louing heart towards you , that in the taking , and detayning prisoner your brother Otho Bishop of Baion , you had not that care which was conuenient of your Princely reputation , but did prefer the secular caution of your temporall state , before the law of God , in not bearing more reuerence vnto Priestly dignity . So he . 4. And this very same violent nature of K. VVilliam , who had byn a souldiar , and borne armes , and brought vp in continuall bloud-shed , from eight years old ( as himself testifieth ) was that , which pious and learned Lanfranke ( nominated & chosen Archbishop of Canterbury , after the deposition of the foresaid Stygand ) did so much feare and mislike at his first comming into England ; as may appeare by an epistle of his to Pope Alexander the second , that had commaunded him ( sore against his will ) to leaue his monasterie in Normandy , and to take that Archbishoprick vpon him : but now being come into England , and seeing how matters did passe there , he was vtterly dismayed , and besought the Pope , by all means possible , and by all the most effectuall wayes of persuasion he could deuise , that he might be rid of it againe . Your legat ( said he ) hauing gathered a Synod heer in Normandy , commaunded mee , by the authority of the Apostolike Sea , to take the gouernment of the Church of Canterbury vpon mee , neither could any resistance of my parte , by laying forth the weaknes ●f my body , the vnworthines of my person , the lack of skill in the English tongue , the barbarousness of the people , nor any other such excuse take place with them , wherefore at length I gaue my consent . I am come hither into England , and haue taken the charge vpon me , wherin I find so great trouble , and affliction of mind , such rediousnes of my soule , such want of courage in my self , such perturbations , such tribulations , such afflictions , such obdurations , such ambition , such beastlynesse in others ; and doe euery day , heare , see , and feele such misery of the Church , as it loatheth me to liue , and am sory that I haue liued vnto this day . For as the euils are great for the present , so doe I expect far greater for the time to come , &c. Wherfore I doe most humble beseech your Highnes , euen for Gods sake , and for your owne soule , that haue bound me to this charge , that you will absolue me againe , & let me returne to my monasticall life , which aboue all things in this world , I loue and desire , and let not me haue denyall in this one petition , which hath both piety , iustice , and necessity in it , &c. 5. So wrote the Archbishop Lanfrank . And that the most of this was meant in respect of difficulties with K. VVilliam himself , it may be gathered by that in the same letter , he desireth the Pope to pray for the said King VVilliam , and among other points , Vt cor eius ad amorem suum , & Sanctae Ecclesia spirituali semper deuotione compungat . That God allmighty will stir his heart to loue him , and his holy Church , and bring it to compunction by spirituall deuotion . For this was the thing that King VVilliam had most need of , to wit spirituall compunction , with a tender conscience , whose affections were more out of order commonly , then his iudgement : which himselfe confessed with great lamentation at his death , as you may read in Stow , and other Authors . For he ( I meane the King ) hauing related his hard proceedings in England he said ; that he was pricked , and bitten inwardly with remorse and feare , considering that in all these actions ( saith he ) cruell rashnesse hath raged . And therfore I humbly beseech you ( ô Priests and ministers of Christ ) to commend me to the allmightie God , that he will pardon my sinnes , wherwith I am greatly pressed , &c. And wheras a little before , he had raged in his warres against the Towne of Meaux in France , and had burned diuers Churches therin , and caused two holie men Anchorites to be burned in their Cells , wherin they were included ; ( which might seem to be an act of no very good Catholike man , & God stroke him for it presentlie ) yet was not this of iudgement , but of rage ( to vse his owne word ) and he sorely repented the same soone after , and sent a great summe of money ( saith Stow ) to the Cleargie of Meaux , that therby the Churches , which he had burned might be repayred . 6. And the same might be shewed , by a like passionate accicident , that fell out on the 13. yeare of his raigne , and of Christ 1079. when hauing vpon ielousie of his estate , forbidden that anie of his Bishops should goe ouer the sea to Rome ; Pope Gregorie the 7. wrote a sharpe reprehension therof , to be denounced vnto him , by Hubert his legat then residing in England , saying that it was , Irreuerentis & impudentis animi praesumptio &c. the presumption of an irreuerent and immodest mind , to prohibite his Bishops to make recourse to the Sea Apostolike . Which reprehension made him so enter into himself , as he sent two Embassadours to Rome , in Company of the said Hubert when he returned to excuse the matter , and shewed himself afterward a most obedient , and faithfull child to the said Church , euen in that troublesome and tempestious time , when Henry the Emperour with all forces impugned the same , as appeareth by the letters , yet extant of the same Pope Gregorie vnto him . 7. Wherfore hauing premissed this for K. VVilliam , and all his Successours , of the Norman , French & English race , in number aboue twentie , for the space well neere of 500. years , vntil K. Henry the 8. that whatsoeuer some particular actions of theirs vpon interest , anger , feare , preuention of imagined daungers , cōpetency , or some other such like motiue , may seeme to make doubtfull sometimes , and in some occasions , their iudgment or affection to the supreame Ecclesiasticall power and iurisdiction of the Sea Apostolike of Rome : yet were they indeed neuer of anie contrary opinion , faith , or iudgment ; but held the very same in this point , which all their auncestors , the English Kings before the Conquest did , and all Christian Princes of the world besides in their dayes . And for K. VVilliam Conqueror in particular , the seueral reasons that doe ensue may easilie conuince the same . Reasons that shew VVilliam Conquerour to haue acknowledged euer the Authoritie of the Sea Apostolicke . §. I. 8. First , that before he would take in hand or resolue anie thing vpon the enterprice of England , as already we hane noted● he sent his whole cause to be considered of , examined , and iudged by Pope Alexander the second , shewing him the pretence he had by his affinity to K. Edward the Confessor deceased : as also the said Kings election and nomination of him by testament ; the vnworthines of Harold the inuader ; the occasion of iust warre , which he had giuen him by breaking his faith , and refu●ing his daughter in marriage ; the secret affection that most of the English nobilitie did beare vnto him , with generall hatred to his aduersarie ; the perill of the Countrey by continuall warrs with the Danes and Scottes ; the hurt of the Church by Harolds irreligious gouernment , but especially his contempt of the said Church & Sea Apostolike , in that he had taken the Crowne vpon him , saith Matthew VVestminster , without the ordinarie rites and solemnity therunto appointed , and consent of the Prelates of the land . And finally saith Malmesbury . Iustitiam suscepti bell● , quantis poterat facundiae verbis , allegabat . He did alleadge the equitie of his cause ( vnto Pope Alexander ) by all the force of eloquence that he could . Which Harold on the other side did omit ( saith he ) to doe , either that he was prowde by nature , or distrusted his owne cause ; or for that he feared that his messengers might fall into VVilliam his hands , who had besett all the portes . Wherevpon Alexander the Pope , hauing weighed his reasons , sent vnto him a banner for the warre , in token of his consent , and Stow addeth these words . Duke VVilliam after he had got the victory sent his standard to the Pope , which was made after the shape and fashion of a man fighting , wrought by sumptuous art with gold and pretious stones . And further the said Stow , out of Malmesbury and Mathew VVestminster doth ad , that Duke VVilliam being arriued in England , and offering conditions of composition to Harold before the battaile , one was , that he was content to stand to the iudgement of the Sea Apostolicke in that controuersie . All which , is likely he would neuer haue done , if he had esteemed so little of the said Sea Apostolicke and authority therof , as M. Attorney doth ; but rather would haue remitted the iustice of his cause to be examined & sentenced by the Emperour , or by some other tēporall tribunal . But he remitted it to the Sea Apostolicke , & it fell out wel for him , as you know . 9. Secondly wheras K. VVilliam from his very first entrance had a desire to remoue Stigand from the Archbishoprick of Canterbury , partly perhaps for his demerits , and partly to haue a sure man in his place , that was not English , he dissembled the matter for three or foure yeares , and this , as some thinke , in regard that the same Stigand had byn a persuader to K. Edward the Confessor , to name Duke VVilliam for his Successor , for so the said Duke confesseth in his message sent to Harold before the battaile , as Stow relateth . But now vpon the year 1070. vnderstanding that Pope Alexander had cited to Rome certayne Archbishops of Germany , to wit that of Ments and Bamberge , to answere to certaine accusations laid against them of Simony , he thought good to take this occasion , to demaund also of the said Pope , iudgemēt against the foresaid Stigand and his brother Agelmare Bishop of the East-Angles , and certaine Abbots suspected of like crimes . Whervpon Pope Alexander sent three Cardinals into England for legats , one of them a Bishop , and the other two Priests , who gathering togeather a Synod at VVinchester , the forenamed persons were deposed by sentence of the said legats , wherof two returned to Rome , and one remained there : as both Malmesbury and other historiographers doe write . Out of which case we doe inferre , that if K. VVilliam had thought his owne authority sufficient to haue depriued the foresaid Bishops , he would neuer haue sued to Rome for the matter , nor haue byn at the trouble and charge , to call from thence three Legats . 10. As soone as Stigand was deposed , Lanfranke a most famous and learned Abbot of Normandy , was called for by K. VVilliam , and commaunded in the Popes name by the Legats , to accept the same ( as before you haue heard ) who obeying thervnto made afterward his recourse confidently to Rome , in all matters of importance that fell out , as namely in this very first yeare , he wrote a letter to Pope Alexander about a case concerning the Bishop of Lichfield in these words ; Vniuersae Christi Ecclesiae summo Rectori Alexandro , indignus Anglorum Archiepiscopus Lanfrancus , &c. Vnto Alexander the highest gouernour of the vniuersall Church of Christ , vnworthy Lanfranke Archbishop of English men , &c. And proposing sundry busines & difficultyes vnto him , he saith among the rest ; that in the forenamed Synod of VVinchester , the Bishop of Lichfield being cited thither , to answere to certaine crimes of incontinent life , layd and proued against him , and he refusing to appeare , was excommunicated and deposed by the said legates , & licence giuen to the King , to nominate another for that place . But afterward at the feast of Easter , he comming to the Court in tyme of Parlament , resigned vp his Bishopricke vnto the King that was sitting togeather with his Bishops and lay nobility . In which case , Ego tum nouus Anglus ( saith he ) rerumque Anglicarum , &c. I being but a new English man , and vnskillfull in English affaires , but what I learne of others , doe not presume , either to consecrate another Bishop in his place , nor yet to giue licence to other Bishops to consecrate any , quoadusque praeceptio vestra veniat , quae in tant● negotio quid oporte atfieri informare nos debeat ; vntill your commaundment come , which in so great a busines must informe vs what we ought to doe . So Lanfranke : who referreth these matters , as you see to the Pope , and not to the King ( though he were the Kings fauorite ) nor did he feare to iniure , or offend the King therby . 11. And soone after this againe , to wit , the very next yeare following , which was the yeare of our Lord 1071. and 5. of K. VVilliams raigne , the said Lanfrancke , elected Bishop of Canterbury , & Thomas a Norman , chosen Bishop of Yorke , went both of them to Rome in person , to receiue their palls and confirmation , at the hands of Pope Alexander by K. VVilliams consent ; albeit it was a very troublesome yeare in England , for that all the North-parte of England rebelled , to wit Edwyn Earle of Mercia , Morcar Earle of Northumberland , Eglewyne Bishop of Durham , the famous Captaine Sewardbran , & manie others ; with whom ioyned the Scots & Danes against the Normans : and K. VVilliam had need of the presence of two such trustie chiefe men & principall Prelates , for staying the people at home . And therfore Embassadours were sent to obtaine , that their said palls might be sent to them into England . But it could not be obtained , for that Pope Alexander answered that it was an old custome , that Archbishops of England should come , & receiue their palls at Rome . And this answere was written to Lanfrancke in the Popes name by Hildebrand Archdeacon of that Sea , who succeeded Alexander in the Popedome , and was called Gregorie the 7. By all which is euident what authoritie Ecclesiasticall K. VVilliam did acknowledge to be in the Pope of Rome , and how little he ascribed to himself in that kind . 12. Furthermore , the same Archbishops returning the yeare following to England againe , the said Pope Alexander wrote to K. VVilliam by them . Alexander Episcopus , Seruus Seruorum Dei : Charissimo filio Gulielnio glorioso Regi Anglorum , &c. Wherein after he had tolde him . Inter mundi Principes & Rectores , egregiam vestrae religionis fan●am intelligimus : that among all the Princes & gouernours of the world , wee haue heard the singular fame of your religion ; exhorting him to goe forward in the same , for that perseuerance only to the end , is the thing which bringeth the Crowne of euerlasting reward : he toucheth also diuers points of defending Ecclesiasticall persons and libertyes of the Church , of releeuing oppressed people vnder his dominion , telling him , that God will exact a seuere accōpt therof at his hands , which ( no doubt ) was meant principally of the oppressed English nation by him , wherof Lanfranke secretly had informed the said Pope . After all this ( I say ) he telleth him of certaine busines , that he had committed to Lanfranke to be handled in England , in a Synod to be gathered there ; as namely about the preheminence of the two Archbishopricks , Canterbury and Yorke . And also to heare againe , and define the cause of the Bishop of Chichester , deposed before by his legats . And finally he concludeth that he should beleiue Lanfranke ; Vt nostrae dilectionis affectum plenius cognoscatis , & reliqua nostrae legationis verba attentius audiatis : that by him , you may more fully vnderstand the affection of our loue towards you , as also heare more attentiuely the rest of our legation committed vnto him , &c. Where he speaketh to the King , as you see , like a Superiour . And Iohn Stow reciting the history of the said Synod , gathered about these matters in England the yeare following at VVindesor , hath these words , taken out of auncient historiographers . This yeare by the commaundement of Pope Alexander , and consent of King VVilliam the Conquerour , in the presence of the said King his Bishops , Prelates , and Nobility , the primacy which Lanfranke Archbishop of Canterbury , claymed ouer the Church and Archbishop of Yorke was examined and try●d out , &c. Heere then was no repining of King VVilliam at the Popes authority in those dayes , but all conformity rather with the same . 13. I might alleadge many other examples to this effect , as that which Stow writeth in the 17. yeare of the raigne of K. VVilliam and yeare of Christ 1083. that VVilliam Bishop of Durham , by leaue of the King and nobles of the Realme , went to Rome , and obtained of Pope Gregory the 7. to bring the Monks from Tarrow and Yarmouth into the Cathedrall Church of Durham ; where he gaue to them , lands , Churches , ornaments , &c. all which ( saith he ) K. VVilliam the Conqueror confirmed by his charter , in confirmation , no doubt , of the Popes Charter , which to procure he went to Rome , and he had licence thervnto from the King and nobles , that were sounders of that Church : which licence , they would neuer haue graunted if they had thought , that the matter had appertained only to the King at home in his owne countrey , and not to the Pope . 14. And in the very same yeare K. VVilliam ( as before we haue touched ) being entred into great iealosie of the ambition , and aspiring mynd of his halfe-brother Otho Bishop of Baion & Earle of Kent least with his Councell and riches , he might assist his sonne Ro●●rt and others , that did rise in Normandy against him ; or as some thinke , desirous to sease vpon his great riches and wealth which he gathered togeather ; he suddenlie returned from Normandy to the I le of VVight , where he vnderstood the said Otho to be in great pompe pretending to goe to Rome , and at vnawares apprehended him ; but yet for excuse of that violent fact upon a Bishop , he made first a long speach vnto his nobles there present , shewing that he did it not so much in respect of his owne temporall security , as in defence of the Church , which this man oppressed . My brother ( saith he ) hath greatly oppressed England in my absence , spoyled the Churches of their lands and rents , made them naked of the ornaments giuen by our predecessours the Christian Kings , that haue raigned before me in England , and loued the Church of God , endowing it with honours and gifts of many kindes . VVherefore now , as we beleeue they rest reioycing with a happy retribution ; Ethelbert , and Edward ; S. Oswald , Athulse , Alfred , Edward the elder , Edgar , and my cosen and most deare lord Edward the Confessor , haue giuen riches vnto the holy Church , the spouse of God ; my brother , to whom I committed the gouernment of the whole Kingdome , violently plucketh away their goods , &c. 15. This was one excuse vsed by the Conqueror . Another was , as Stow recordeth that he said , that wheras his brother was both Bishops of Baion and Earle of Kent , he apprehended him as Earle of Kent , and not as Bishop of Baion , that is to say , as a lay-person , and not as an Ecclesiasticall . And yet further , when he was vrged about that matter by his owne Prelates , he was wont to say , ( as Stow and others doe also note ) that he did it by particular licence of the Pope , and not only by licence , but also by his decree and commaundement ; and so he protested at his death . Wherby we see , how little opiniō he had of his owne spirituall iurisdiction in this behalfe . Of King VVilliam the Conquerour his lawes , in fauour of the Church , and Church-men . §. II. 16. But no one thing doth more exactly declare the sense and iudgement of King VVilliam in these things , then his particular lawes , which are recorded by Roger Houeden , ( an author of good antiquity ) who shewing that King VVilliam in the 4. yeare of his raigne , calling togeather all his Barons , Gouernours of Prouinces , & twelue expert men out of euery shyre , did reveiw the auncient lawes both of the English and Danes , approuing those that were thought expedient , and adding others of his owne ; beginning with those that appertained to the libertyes & exaltation of the Church . Taking our beginning ( saith he ) from the lawes of our holy mother the Church , by which both King and Kingdome haue their sound fundament of subsisting , &c. And then followeth the first law with this title . De clericis & possessionibus corum . Of Clergie-men & their possessions : & the law it self is writen in these few words , but containing much substance . Omnis Clericus & etiam omnes Scholares , & omnes res & possessiones corum , vbicunque fuerint , pacem Dei & Sanctae Ecclesiae habeant . Let euery Clergie-man , and all schollers , and all their goods and possessions whersoeuer they be , haue the peace of God , and of holy Church . And afterwards he declareth what this peace of the Church is , to wit , that neither their persons , nor their goods can be arested , molested , or made to pay tribute , or otherwise troubled by any secular iudge whatsoeuer . 17. And in the second law , which is intituled . De temporibus & diabus pacis Domini Regis . Of the times and daies of peace , and freedome of our Lord the King ; he doth explicate that it belongeth to the King and his officers , to see these liberties of Ecclesiasticall peace , franquises , and freedome , be exactlie obserued to Ecclesiasticall persons , & especiallie to punish them double , which refuse to put in execution the Bishops sentence of iustice . Quod si aliquis ●i foris fecerit ( saith he ) Episcopus inde iustitiam faciat ; veru●tamen si quis arrogans , pro Episcopali iustitia emendare noluerit , Episcop●● Regi notum faciat : Rex autem constringet malefactorem , vt emendet cui foris facturum fecit , scilicet primum Episcopo , deinde Regi , & sic erunt ibi due gladij , & gladius iuuabit . If anie man shall doe anie hurt to him ( that hath the peace of the Church ) let the Bishop doe him Iustice ; but if anie man will bee arrogant & not make amends , according to the sentence of iustice giuen by the Bishop , let the Bishop make it knowne to the King ( or his Courts ) and the King shall constraine the malefactor , to make amends to him , vnto whom hee did the hurte , to wit , first vnto the Bishop , and then to the King , and so there shall bee two swords against malefactors , and the one sword shall help the other . And heere let be considered , what he saith of two swords , one in the Bishops hand , and the other in the Kings ; and that this must assist that of the Bishops , as the principall & superiour ; which is conforme to the speach of K. Edgar ( if you remember ) whereof we made mention in the former Chapter and last demonstration therof . Wherby is made euident , that these auncient Kings beleeued not to any haue spirituall sword or authoritie , by right of their Crowns , but onlie the temporall to command & punish in temporall affaires , and to help and assist the others in causes belonging vnto them . 18. The third law hath this Title . De Iustitia Sanctae Ecclesiae . Of the iustice of the holy Church and prerogatiue therof , which she is to receiue in temporall tribunals . In which law is determined in these words . Vbicunque Regis iustitia , vel cuiuscunque sit , placita tenuerit , si vllus Episcopus venerit illuc , & aperuerit causam Sanctae Ecclesiae , ipsa prius terminetur : Iustitia enim est , vt Deus vbique prae caeteris honoretur . Wh●rsoeuer the Kings Iustice , or the Iustice of what other Lord soeuer , shall hold pleas ( or keep courts ) if any Bishop come thither , and open a cause of the holy Church , let that cause of all other be first determined : for it is iust that God be honoured euery where before all other . Marke his reason , why the expedition of the Bishops cause , is to be preferred before that of the King ; for that he holdeth the place of God , and thereafter must be respected . 19. The fourth law hath this Title : De vniuersis tenentibus de Ecclesia . Of the priuiledges of all those that are any way tenants of the Church . And then it followeth in the law . Quicunque de Ecclesia aliquid tenuerit , vel in fundo Ecclesiae mansionem habuerit , extra curiam Ecclesiasticam coactus , non placitabit , quamuis foris fecerit , nisi ( quod absit ) in Curia Ecclesiastica rectum defecerit . Whosoeuer doth hold any thing of the Church , or hath his mansion-house within the land of the Church , shall not be constrained to plead any matter of his , though he bee a malefactor , out of the spirituall courte , except ( which God forbid ) iustice could not be had in the said Ecclesiasticall court . 20. These are the first lawes of all , that were made by King VVilliam , and after these doe ensue fiue more to the same effect of Churches priuiledges ; wherof the first hath this Title . De reis ad Ecclesiam fugientibus . Of malefactors , that fly to the Church , how they are to haue Sanctuary and protection . The second . De fractione pacis Ecclesiae . Of breaking the peace of the Church , that is to say of her priuiledges : the breakers wherof are appointed to be sharply punished , first by the Bishop , & then by the King , if he be arrogant . The third . De decimis Ecclesiae maioribus . Of the greater tythes belonging to the Church . The fourth . De minut is decimis . Of lesser tythes ; all which are commaunded to be payed exactly . And finally the fifth law , which is the tenth in order , hath this Title . De denario S. Petri , qui Anglicè dicitur Rome-scot . Of Peter-pence , called in old English Rome-scot : wherin is appointed the order , how the said Peter-pence shall be gathered and made ready against the feast of S. Peter and S. Paul , or at the furthest , against the feast of S. Peters Chaines , as we haue seen also before ordeined by the law of K. Kanutus . By all which is vnderstood , and much to be considered , that neither K. VVilliam , nor any of his auncestors tooke vpon them to make any Ecclesiasticall law at all of spirituall matters , as of their owne ; but only did second , and strenthen , and confirme the lawes of the Church , by their temporall lawes , by defending the same , and punishing the breakers therof . Which is a far different thing from the Ecclesiasticall power , which M. Attorney will needs haue vs beleeue to haue byn in the auncient Kings of England , according to the meaning of the auncient Common-lawes therof , but produceth none . And I persuade my self , he will hardly alleadge me any so auncient as these , though he haue studied them , as he saith 35. years : but fiue hundred more were necessary to find out that which he affirmeth . And thus much of lawes for the present . 21. There remaineth only one argument more , concerning K. VVilliam , which is the time of his death , and of what sense and iudgment he was in this point at that time , when commonly men doe se more cleerly the truth of matters ( especially Princes ) then before in their life , health , and prosperity , when passion , honour , or interest may oftentimes either blind , or byasse them . And albeit of K. VVilliam diuers ancient writers doe recorde , that notwithstanding in his anger , vnto secular men he was fierce & terrible ; yet vnto Ecclesiasticall persons , he bare still great respect , wherof among others , this example is recorded by Nubergensis , that when at a certaine time Archbishop Aldred of Yorke , that had crowned him , and was much reuerenced by him while he liued , intreating him for a certaine pious worke , and not preuailing , turned his back and went away with shew of displeasure ; the Conquerour tooke hold of him , and fell downe at his feet , promising to doe what he would haue him : and when the Nobles that stood round about , began to cry to the Arch-bishop , that he should take vp the King quickly from his knees , he answered let him alone , he doth but honour the feet , of S. Peter , in kneeling at myne . Which well declareth ( saith Nubergensis ) both what great reuerence , this fierce and warlike Prince did beare vnto this Prelate , as also how singular authority and confidence the good Archbishop had with him . 22. But ( as we haue said ) his true sense & meaning will best be sene by owne his words & behauiour at his death when finding himself in great affliction and perplexity of mynd , with the ●●ror therof , as before hath byn touched , and of Gods iudgemen● ensuing theron : for that to vse his owne words , he saw himself ●●den with many and greiuous sinnes , and greatly polluted with the effu●●●● much bloud , and ready to be taken by and by vnto the terrible examination 〈◊〉 God , &c. In this plight ( I say ) which Stow and others 〈◊〉 downe out of auncient authors , his greatest comfort● 〈…〉 he had byn euer obedient to the Church : whervnto by 〈…〉 he assigned the most parte of his treasure ; adding this 〈◊〉 therof , that those things that had byn heaped vp by wicked deeds , might be disposed to holy vses of Saincts . And then turning his speach to Ecclesiasticall men he said ; You remember how sweetly I haue euer loued you , and how strongly against all emulations defended you . The Church of God which is our mother , I neuer violated , but in euery place ( where reason required ) did willingly honour ; I haue not sold Ecclesiasticall dignityes , and Symony I allwayes detested ; in the election of Pastors , I euer searched out the merits of his life , his learning and wisdome ; and so neer as I could , committed the gouernment of the Church vnto the most worthy ; this may be seen in Lanfranke Archbishop of Canterbury , and in Anselme Abbot of Becke , and others , &c. This course haue I followed from my first years ; this I leaue vnto my heirs to be kept in all tymes ; In this doe you ( my Children ) euer follow me , to the end that heerby you may please both God and man , &c. 23. And this was the last speach of the Conquerour to his children , and others standing by at the day of his death , which doth sufficiently declare , what his sense & iudgement was concerning this point of spirituall iurisdiction . And to impugne and ouerthrow all this our aduersary the Attorney had need to bring many and strong batterings , as you see . Let vs passe then to examine what they are . The first Instance taken out of the raigne of this K. VVilliam the Conquerour . §. III. 24. One instance only doth M. Attorney find to be alleadged , during the raigne of this Prince , which we shall alleadge in his owne words , as they ly in his booke ; and this shall we obserue commonly through all his instances . Thus then he saith . The Attorney . It is agreed , that no man only can make any appropriation of any Church , hauing cure of soules , being a thing Ecclesiasticall , and to be made to some person Ecclesiasticall , but he that hath Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction : But William the first of himself , without any other , as king of England , made appropri●t●●● of Churches vvith Cure , to Ecclesiasticall persons : vvherefore it followeth , that he had Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . The Catholike Deuine . 25. This is the only one argument or instance , as hath bene said , which M. Attorney hath found in all the life of K. VVilliam the first , wherby to proue his principall Conclusion , which is , that K. VVilliam had as much Ecclesiasticall power and iurisdiction , by the auncient common lawes of England , as euer had Queene Elizabeth , and she as much , as euer anie Ecclesiasticall person had , or might haue in Englād . And yet you se , that if al were graūted , which heere is set downe , it amounteth to no more , but that K. VVilliam did bestow a benefice with Cure , vpon an Ecclesiasticall person : which he might doe , either by nominating or presenting , as patrone of the benefice ; or by some indult from the Pope , or Bishop of the diocesse in that behalfe ; or vnder ratihabition ( as before in Charters hath been declared ) or finallie he might doe it De facto and not De Iure , as oftentimes it falleth out in such actions of Princes . And in all these senses , though we graunt whatsoeuer M. Attorney saith & setteth downe in this place , it commeth so far short to proue supreame Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction in K. VVilliam , as it proueth not anie spirituall iurisdiction at all ; for that all he saith may be grauuted in any lay-man whatsoeuer : which wee shall endeauour to make cleere by explication and distinction of those things , which heere are set downe confusedly by M. Attorney . 26. First then this instance consisteth of a Syllogisme , as you see ; the Maior wherof is related out of the collection of some law booke , as may appeere by his quotation in the margent , though I haue not the booke by me : and we graunt the proposition to be true in his due sense , to wit , that no man can appropriate a Church or benefice with Cure , to an Ecclesiasticall man , but he that hath Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . And then , we deny the Minor proposition , which ●● of M. Attorneys owne addition , to wit , that K. VVilliam did so appropriate , or bestow any benefice with Cure , vpon an Ecclesiasticall person , except it were in one of the fower manners before specified . And M. Attorney ought to haue proued his said Minor , if he had delt substantially . 27. And moreouer I find that he faltereth somewhat also 〈◊〉 setting downe the very words of his Maior proposition , though much more in the true sense , as presently shall be declared . For wheras he beginneth . It is agreed that no man can make any appropriation , &c. the latin words of this Report cited by himself are : Inter omnes conuenit , quod nemo possit appropriare , &c. which haue this sense : that it is a common receiued opinion ( to wit from the Canon-law ) that no man can appropriate , or bestow a Church with Cure , except he haue Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . But M. Attorney by shutting out the word inter omnes , and translating the rest , it is agreed , would make his reader thinke , that it was an agreement or resolution only of the temporall Iudges in this case , in K. Edward the 3. his raigne , and that they first founded this Maxime about Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , wheras they related it only , as an auncient Maxime receaued in the Canon and Ciuill law , in this sense which presently we shall declare . 28. And wheras he translateth the word appropriare Ecclesiam Ecclesiasticae personae . To make appropriation of any Church to an Ecclesiasticall person ; this may haue two senses , & be meant either of appropriations , or collations of benefices , wherin there is little difference in respect of our controuersie ; for that neither appropriation , nor collation can be truly and properly made , without spirituall iurisdiction , either ordinary or delegate . And as for appropriations , which consisted cōmonly in this , that the gleab-lands , and the better tithes were vnited to some religious houses , or Parsons , leauing the lesser tithes vnto their Vicars , they could not be made nor graunted , but by the licence of the Sea Apostolicke ; as neither in our daies they can , in Catholike countries ; & vpō this pretence of a greater good to ensue therby vnto the Church and Countrey , where they are graunted : and consequently if K. VVilliam in his dayes , did make any such appropriatiōs in this sense , it is to be vnderstood that the same was first allowed by the Sea Apostolicke , as before we haue shewed in the examples of Charters , for buylding & establishing of Churches , monasteryes , and other pious workes . And the same may be gathered also out of the Ordinances made about the said appropriations afterward in the 15. yeare of K. Richard the second , and 4. of K. Henry the fourth by Parlament , wherin the Bishops did fit as cheife in these affaires . 29. Collations also of benefices require spirituall power and iurisdiction in him , that doth giue or confer the same ; though in this there may be diuers degrees , which are declared 〈…〉 Canon-law . And M. Attorney being so eminent in the common-law , ought not alltogeather to haue omitted them . For first , wheras the word Benefice , or Church with Cure , or Parish ( for all these are vsed oftentimes for the same ) doth comprehend as well a Bishopricke , as a lower benefice ; if M. Attorney will vnderstand it heere of the former , that is to say , that no man can appropriate , or bestow a Bishoprick vpon any person , but he that hath Ecclesiastical iurisdiction , he must remember ( if before he knew it ) that three things doe concurre in making of a Bishop by diuine and Canon-law , to wit Election , Confirmation , and Consecration , as may be seen by the places therof heere quoted in the margent , not to trouble the text therewith to vnskillfull Readers . 30. And albeit the first , to wit Election , * when it is iustly made , doe giue right to the elected , to pretend the second and third , that is , confirmation and consecration , nor can they be denyed vnto him without iniury , except vpon iust cause , as the same law saith : yet can he not vpon his only Election , exercise any part of his office of a Bishop , either in iurisdiction or order . But when he hath the second parte , which is confirmation and induction to the benefice , which is properly called inuestiture ; then hath he iurisdiction vpon those people , and may exercise the Acts therof by visiting , punishing , or the like ; but not the Acts of Order , vntill he haue consecration also , that is to say , he cannot make Priests , nor administer the sacrament of confirmation , nor doe other such actions , as are peculiar to Episcopall Order . 31. Now for these three things , the first ( which is election or nomination ) may be perfourmed by any Prince or lay-man , that hath lawfull authority therevnto , which diuers wayes he may haue , as after shall be shewed ; either by Ius patronatus of the benefice , or prerogatiue graunted him by the Church . The second which is confirmation and giuing of iurisdiction , must only proceed from him that is the fountaine of all spirituall iurisdiction vnder Christ ( which is the Bishop of Rome ) or some Metropolitan or Bishop vnder him , that hath authority and commission from him . The third which is consecration , must be done according to the Canon-law , by three Bishops at the least . And by this also may wee vnderstand , what is necessary for the appropriating or conferring of any lower Benefice with Cure to an ordinary Priest , to wit , the two first , election or presentation , which may be done by a secular man and confirmation or inuestiture , which allwayes must come , as hath byn said , either from the Sea Apostolicke , or some Bishop authorized vnder him ; for that it giueth spirituall power and iurisdiction ouer soules , which no man can doe , but he that hath it in himself , & no man can haue it , but he that receaued it from those that had it immediatly from Christ , to wit S. Peter & the rest of the Apostles and their Successors , Gouernours of the Church , as before in the second Chapter of this Answere we haue declared . 32. And yet further it is to be noted , for more cleernes and distinction , that the first of these three to wit Election , is of foure distinct sortes in the Canon-law . The one called election properly or choise , by suffrages and voyces of such as haue to choose . The second is termed Postulation , when one is offred that is not altogeather capable of the benefice , but hath need of dispensation . The third is called presentation , when he that is patron , or hath the aduouson of any benefice , presenteth one by right of that Ius patronatus , the right of patronage . The fourth is called nomination , which hath diuers curious differences noted in the law , ouer long heer to be discussed . But this is sufficient for our purpose , that all these foure wayes doe comprehend but only the first degree of appropriating a benefice to any incumbent . And albeit originally they doe all foure appertaine to Ecclesiasticall power , for that they concerne an Ecclesiasticall thinge ; yet for many ages haue they byn imparted also by authority and commissiō of the Sea Apostolicke , or by right of patronage , to secular lay-men , both Princes and others : I meane to choose , postulate , present , and nominate fit persons , both for Bishops and Pastors . And this we see in vse now for many ages in all Catholike Countreys throughout Christendome ; especially concerning Bishopricks , and greatest dignityes Ecclesiasticall . But yet no Prince taketh that authority , as descending from his Crowne , but as by commission , graunt , or indult of the Sea Apostolicke , which they hold to be the fountaine of all spirituall authority and iurisdiction . 33. All which being well vnderstood , it is easy to distinguish , and therby euacuate the argument of M. Attorney in this place : which is a plaine Sophisme , and deceitfull Syllogisme , hauing one sense in the Maior , & another in the minor . For if in the maior proposition , wherin he saith out of the Reporte of his law , that no man can appropriate an ecclesiasticall benefice with Cure , but he that hath sp●rituall iurisdiction . If he vnderstand ( I say ) the first degree only , which is to choose , postulate , present , or nominate ; then the said maior is false , for that lay-men may doe it also by commission ( as before we haue said ) and then doe we graunt his minor proposition , that K. VVilliam did , or might so appropriate . But if he vnderstand in the second or third degree of confirmation and consecration of Bishops ; then is the maior true , & the minor false . And so M. Attorneys syllogisme euery way is found faulty and guylfull , nor worthy of his place and credit . 34. And yet will I add one thing more for conclusion of this matter , which is , that as diuers secular Princes in former ages , and in ours also , haue had the first degree of approprition ( as hath been declared , to wit , to nominate fit persons ; so haue diuerse pretended , as well in our Countries as elswhere , to haue , in a certaine manner , the second from the Sea Apostolicke , that is to say , to giue the inuestitures in Bishopricks , Abbyes , and other chiefe benefices Per annuium & baculum , that is , by giuing them a ring & a staffe , which are the ordinarie signes and markes of taking possession of their iurisdiction : which though the said Princes doe acknowledge , to bee a spirituall Act , and consequently not possible to descend from the right of their temporall Crowne ( as M. Attorney would haue it ) yet desired they to inioy it by Commission from the Sea Apostolicke , in respect of their greater authoritie amonge their Subiects , and for more breuitie of prouiding , and establishing incumbentes , when benefices of cure fell voide , and for other such reasons : wherof we may read in the liues of diuers of our Kings . And namelie of King Henrie the first this Conquerour his sonne , what earnest suite he made , to haue these inuestitures graunted him , which the Pope did flattly deny to doe ; yea and the greatest causes of that wonderfull breach between the Popes Alexander the 2. and Gregorie the 7. and others of that age , with the Emperour Henrie and his Successours , were by the occasion of these inuestitures , which the said Popes would not graunt . Albeit I find some ages after , that the great and famous Lawyer Baldus aboue two hundred years gone , recordeth that in his tyme , two Kings only had these priuiledges , graunted them from the Sea Apostolicke ; The King of England to wit , and the King of Hungary , which perhaps was in regard that their Kingdomes lay so far of , as it might be preiudiciall to their Churches , to expect allwayes the said Inuestitures from Rome ; But yet he expresly saith , that it was by Commission and delegation of the Pope . Papa ( saith he ) committit spiritualia etiam mero laico , & ideo Rex Anglorum , & rex Hungaria conferunt in suis Reguis Praebendas ex priuilegio Papa . The pope may commit spirituall things to a meere lay-man ( and this he proueth by diuers texts of law ) and hence it is , that the King of England , and King of Hungary doe in their Kingdomes giue Prebends , by priuiledge of the Pope . Wherby we vnderstand , that in Baldus his time , it was held for a pecular priuiledge of these two Kings , which fithence hath byn communicated to diuers other Christian Princes , who doe vse and exercise the same at this day ; but yet none pretending it , as from the right of their Crownes . For they neuer pretended to giue benefice or Bishopricke , by their owne Kingly authority , but only to present and commend fit persons vnto the Sea Apostolicke , to be admitted and inuested therby , as all other Catholicke Princes at this day doe vse : yea , and that this right of presentation also , they tooke not , but by concession and approbation also of the foresaid Sea Apostolicke , as by the former examples may appeere . 35. And this is so much as I thinke cōuenient to saie in this place to M. Attorneys silly instance , and I haue been the longer theraout , for that this K. VVilliam is the head and roote of al the Kings following : and this which hath been answered to this obiection will giue much light to all other instances , that are to ensue . And if anie King should haue taken anie other course from this , established by the Conquerour ( their head and origen ) which yet none euer in any substantiall point did vntill King Henry the 8. you may see by all this discourse that the Conquerour might say of them , as S. Iohn said of some of his . Ex nobis prodierunt , sed non erant exnobis . And so much of the Conquerour . OF KING WILLIAM RVFVS AND HENRY THE FIRST That vvere the Conquerours sonnes ; and of King Stephen his Nephevv : And how they agreed with the said Conquerour , in our Question of spirituall iurisdiction acknowledged by them to be in others , and not in themselues . CHAP. VIII . THis beginning being established in the Conquerour cōforme to that which was in the precedent Kings before the Conquest , their remaineth now , that wee make our descent , by shewing the like conformitie in all subsequent Kings , vnto K. Henry the 8. according to our former promise . Wherfore first in ranke there commeth K. VVilliam Rufus second sonne of the Conquerour , among those of his children that liued at his death , who being named to the succession by his said father vpon his death-bed , & so charged & forewarned , as you haue heard , in this verie point of honoring the Church and Ecclesiasticall power , and vnder that hope and expectation embraced and crowned by the good Archbishop Lanfranke , 〈◊〉 king first his solemne Oath to the same effect , which his father had taken before him in the day of his Coronation , he gaue g●●● satisfaction & contentment to all his people , at the beginning of his raigne , as all our historiographers doe testifie , that is to say , so long as Archbishop Lanfranke liued , to whom he bare singular respect , loue and reuerence : but the said Archbishop deceasing in the second yeare of his raigne ( which was about the 20. of his age ) the young man , as thinking himself free from all respect to God or man , brake into those extreame disorders of life , which our historyes doe recount . 2. And among others , or rather aboue others , in oppressing the Church , holding Bishopricks & Abbies in his hands , as they fell void , and not bestowing them afterward , but for bribes and Simony : And namely the Archbishopricke of Canterbury he held foure years in his hand after the death of Lanfranke , vntil at length falling greiuously sicke in the Citty of Glocester , and fearing to dy , made many promises of amending his life : as namely ( saith Florentius ) Ecclesias non amplius vendere , nec ad censum ponere , sed illas Regia tueri potestate , irrectas leges destruere , & rectas statuere Deo promisit . He promised to God not to sell Churches any more , nor to put them out to farme , but by his kingly power to defend them , and to take away all vniust laws , and to establish such as were rightfull . And heervpon presently to begin withall , he nominated to the Archbishopricke of Canterbury , a great and worthy learned man named Anselmus Abbot of the monastery of Becke in Normandy who was then present in England ; for that some moneth or two before , he bad byn intreated by the Earle of Chester Syr Hugh Lupus , to come into England to found and order his Abbey ( saith Stow ) of S. VVerberge at Chester ; of whom Malmesbury liuing presently after him saith . Quo nemo vnquam iusti ten●cior , &c. then which Anselmne , no man was euer more constant in righteousnes ; no man in this age more exactly learned , no man so profoundly spirituall as this Archbishop , that was the father of our countrey , and mirrour of the world . 3. But this vnfortunate King was no sooner recouered ( say the same Authours ) but he repented himself sorely , that he had not solde the said Archbishopricke with other for more money ; and therevpon tooke an occasion to picke a quarrell against the said Anselmus , and among other things , to let him , that he could not doe his office ; for that ( saith Florentius ) from the time he was made Archbishop ( which was no lesse then two years ) it was not permitted vnto him , either to hold any Synod , or to correct the vices which were sprung vp through England . Wherevnto Malmesbury and Edmerus that 〈◊〉 with him , doe add , that the King would not suffer him to goe to Rome to take his pall of the Pope , as all Archbishops of Canterbury were accustomed to doe , and the other greatly vrged to haue licence : But after a long combat , which he had had with the King & diuers other Bishops , that followed the Kings fauour , in a Synod at London vpō the third weeke in lent Anno Domini 1095. and eight yeare of King VVilliam his raigne , the said Archbishop being extreamly baited by the King & his followers , stood constant in his appeale to Rome . 4. Which thing Rufus perceiuing ( saith Malmesbury ) he sent secretly certaine messengers to Rome , to intreat the Pope ( which then was Vrban the second ) to send the Pall of Canterbury vnto the King , to be giuen to whom he would . Whervnto though the Pope would not yeeld ; yet he sent back with his messengers for Legate , the Bishop of Albanum named VValta , with the said Pall , who shewed vnto the King so many reasons , why the Pope could not yeeld to his demaund , and intreated him so forceably to be content , that he might giue the said Pall from the Pope to Anselme with accustomed ceremonyes in the Church of Canterbury , as at length he obteyned the same , and made them freinds . 5. But this frendship lasted not longe , for that the very next yeare after , the King continued his old manner of oppressing the Church . S. Anselme went vnto him to VVinchester , and there first by intercessors , desired the King that he might haue licence to goe to Rome to conferr diuers difficultyes of his with Vrban the Pope . The King answered , that he would not giue him licence , for that he knew him to haue no such great sinnes , that it was needfull for him to goe to Rome for absolution ; nor yet to be lesse learned then Pope Vrban , whose counsaile & direction he would aske . Whervpon the Archbishop entring the Kings chamber , sate downe by his side ( saith the Story ) and disputed the matter with him , affirming him to deny Christ himself , that denyed recourse vnto his Vicar vpon earth . And thervpon he concluded , that this licence could not be denyed him by a Christian King , and consequently he would goe . The King said he should carry out nothing with him . The Archbishop answered , he would goe naked and bare-foote . Which firme resolution the King perceiuing to be in him , vsed by messengers vnto him diuers intreatyes ( saith VValsingham ) and offered large promises of fauours if he would stay . But the other would not , but departed the Realme , though he were searched and rifled by the Kings Officers at the port . 6. By all which story it most euidently appeareth , that albeit this young disorderly and passionate King , were as well in this , as in other matters , headstronge and violent in pursuing his appetites & desires , as well in Ecclesiasticall , as Temporall affaires : yet did he neuer deny the Popes spirituall iurisdiction in England , but rather acknowledged the same , in sending to Rome to intreat that the pall might be sent to him , as also in going about to diuert S. Anselms recourse thither . But ( alas ) there passed not many years , but God punished seuerely these greiuous sinnes against his Church : For as both the foresaid Malmesbury & Edmerus that liued with him doe write , S. Anselms going to Rome & frō thence with Pope Vrban to a Councell of Bishops gathered togeather at Bary in Apulia , wherin among other things , all lay-men were excommunicated , that presumed to giue Ecclesiasticall Inuestitures , as also those that receiued them at lay-mens hands , which was thought principally to haue byn done in respect of King VVilliam ; he returned againe some years after into France , and there passing his banishment with great quietnes of mind , he being one day with S. Hugh Abbot of Cluniaecke , famous in those dayes for holines , the said Abbot told him in the hearing of diuers others , that the night before , he had seen King VVilliam called before God , and receiued the sorrowfull sentence of damnation ; wherat all the hearers marueyling , the next newes they heard from England , was , that the said King was strangely slaine by an erring arrow of his familiar seruant Tyrrell , while he hunted in the New-forrest , and that being stroken , he fell downe dead without speaking any one word . And the same authors doe recount diuers other the like presages and prognostications , that happened as well to the King himself , as to other friends of his in England , portending this euent , but neglected by him . 7. And this shall suffice for King VVilliam Rufus , who raigned thirteen years . And though he was naught to all kind of men , ( saith Malmesbury ) and pernicious in his actions , as well to secular as Clergy men ; yet had he no other iudgement in matters of religion , then his father or auncestors ; nor euer was he noted of any least difference therin : Nor doth Maister Attorney bring any instance at all out of this Kings Raigne : and therfore shall wee passe to his younger brother that ensued him in the Kingdome . OF KING HENRY THE FIRST , VVhich was the third King after the Conquest . §. I. 8. This was the third sonne of VVilliam the great surnamed the Conquerour , who finding the commodity by absence of his eldest brother Robert Duke of Normandy , tooke the Kingdome of England vpon him , hauing gained by faire promises , the good-wills of all or most of the Realme , and so was crowned by Maurice Bishop of London , for that S. Anselm Archbishop of Canterbury . was yet in exile , as before vnder Rufus you haue heard . 9. What the said Henry did sweare and promise , and what he began , euen from the very day of his Coronation , to put in practice , Florentius that then liued , declareth in these words : Consecrationis suae die Sanctam Dei Ecclesiam , &c. From the very day of his consecration , he set free the holy Church of God , which in his brothers dayes had byn sold and let to farme ; he tooke away all euill customes , and remoued all vniust exactions , wherby the Kingdome had byn wrongfully oppressed before , & commaunded , that peace and freedome should be holden throughout the whole Realme . He restored the law of S. Edward to all men in common , with those additions or corrections which his Father had added thervnto , &c. So Florentius . And what his Fathers additions were , and how greatly in fauour of the Church , and of Ecclesiasticall power , authority and libertyes , you haue heard before in his life and lawes . Wherby we may easily ghesse with what mind and iudgement this man entered vnto his crowne . 10. And albeit in this point he neuer altered ; yet there passed not two years of his gouernment , but partely vpon Kingly appetite to haue power in all things ; and partly also by incitation of flatterers , that seeke to feed & nourish Princes humours in that behalfe ; he began to lay his hands vpon Inuestitures of Bishops , by giuing them Annalum & baculum for their induction to their benefices ; saying that his Father and Brother before him , had vsed and exercised the same . But S. Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury newly retourned into England with other Bishops , opposed himself against the same , as a thing vnlawfull , and condemned by the Canons of the Church ; and namely in the late Councell of Bary , where himself was present : ( as before hath byn shewed ) and this contention grew to be so stronge , as the next yeare after , being the third of K. Henryes raigne , the said holy man was forced againe to appeale to Rome to Pope Pascalis , and thervpon to leaue the land , and once more to goe into Banishment , where he liued three years , going and returning often from Lions to Rome , ( say Malmesbury , Florentius , and Houeden ) about this matter . And the first of these three doth set downe diuers epistles of Pope Pascalis , both to Anselme the Archbishop , and to K. Henrie himself , wherin he telleth him first , why he could not graunt vnto him the authority of inuesting Bishops , which by his letters sent by Clarke VVilliam he had demaunded saying : Graue nobis est , quia id à nobis videris expetere , quod omnino praestare non possumus , &c. It greiueth vs much that you seeme to demaund at our hands , that which no wayes we can graunt ; for if we should consent , or suffer inuestitures to be made by your Excellency , it would turne ( no doubt ) to the exceeding great daunger , both of you , and me before God , &c. Secondly he exhorteth him earnestly to admit S. Anselme to his Bishopricke and fauour againe . Prospice ( fili Charissime ) vtrum dedecus an decus tibi sit , quod sapientissimus & religiosissimus Episcopus Anselmus , propter hoc , tuo lateri adharere , tuo veretur in Reguo consistere . Qui tanta de te bonae hactenus audierant , quid de te sentiant , quid lequentur ? &c. Consider ( my most deere child ) whether this be an honour or dishonour vnto you , that so wise and religious a Bishop as Anselmus is , should feare for this cause to liue with you or to remaine in your Kingdome . What will men thinke or say of you , who hitherto haue heard so great good of your proceedings ? Thus he , and much more ( which for breuity I omit ) from his pallace of Lateran vpon the 9. day before the Kalends of December . 11. But not long after , to wit vpon the yeare 1106. which was the sixt of K. Henryes raigne , he being in some difficultyes in Normandy in respect of the warrs he had there against Duke Robert his brother , and many great men that tooke his parte , and perceiuing great discontentments to be likewise in England , as well 〈◊〉 regard of the absence of their holy Archbishop Anselme ; as of the greiuous exactions which he had made vpon them . Non fac●●● potest naerrari miseria ( saith Florentius ) quam sustinuit isto tempore ●err● Anglorum , propter exactiones Regis . The miserie can hardly be declared , which England did suffer at this time by the Kings exactions . All these things , ( I say ) being laid togeather , & God mouing his heart to turne to him for remedy , he thought best to goe to the monastery of Becke in Normandy , where Anselme remayned in continuall fasting and praying for his amendment . And there agreeing with him to stand no more in these matters of Inuestitures , or any other spirituall iurisdiction , he willed him to returne securely into England , to pray for him in his Archbishopricke , and so he did . 12. And this being vpon the Assumption of our B. Lady to wit the 15. of August , the K. confident now of Gods fauour , as it seemeth vpon this agreement , gathered presentlie an armie against his enemies , & vpon the vigil of S. Michael next ensuing entring battaile with them , had a singular victorie , & tooke therin both Duke Robert his brother , & VVilliam Earle of Morton , & Robert Earle of Stutauill , VVilliam Crispin , and all the head Captaines of Normandy with them : wherof presently the King wrote letters of ioy to Archbishop Anselme in England ( saith Florentius ) And the next spring abou● Easter returned into England with the said prisoners , and left Normandy wholie gained vnto him and to his Successours . 13. And vpon this , he calling togeather vpon the first of August and 7. yeare of his raigne , all his Lords , both spirituall and temporal , consulted for three daies togeather with them , not admitting S. Anselme to that consultation , least his authoritie might seeme to haue ouer-borne the matter , what it was best to doe in that case of inuestitures , which he had before vsed ; albeit diuers ( saith Florentius ) did exhorte him not to obey the Pope in this , but to retaine the vse , which both his Father and brother had practised , yet others alleadging the Censures both of Pope Vrbanus and Pascalis against the same , and that they left vnto the King all other priuiledges and regalityes : the King on the 4. day causing Anselmus to be present : Statuit ( saith Florentius ) vt ab eo tempore in reliquum , nunquam per dationem baculi pastoralis vel annuli quisquam 〈◊〉 Episcopatu aut Abbatia , per Regem vel quamlibet laicam manum in Angli● inuestiretur . The King with his Counsell did decree for that time forward ; that no man in England should be inuested of any Bishopricke or Abbey , by the King , or by any lay mans hand or power , with giuing him the pastoral staffe or ring , as sometymes had byn accustomed . And this was done in obedience of the Canonicall constitution made in the Councell of Bary , against such inuestitures , as we haue declared . 14. Aud thus was that controuersie ended , which was the only controuersie of importance , that this K. Henry had with the Sea of Rome during the tyme of his raigne , which Malmesbury then liuinge , recounted as done of conscience saying ; Inuestituras Ecclesiarum , post multas controuersias inter eum & Anselmum , Deo & & Sancto Petro remisit . Hee did release againe to God and to S. Peter , the Inuestitures of Churches after many controuersies had there about with Anselmus . Which he did perfourme so syncerely from his heart , as afterward Anselme being dead , and he marrying his only daughter Maude to the Emperour Henry the 5. vpon the yeare 1114. he seemeth to haue induced his sonne-in-law the Emperour to remit also the said inuestitures to Pope Calixtus , for which his Father and grand-father had held so longe and scandalous broyles with the precedent Popes ; yea and himself also , that is to say this Emperour Henry , not long before going to Rome with a mayne army , had taken prisoner , and held for certayne dayes Pope Paescalis that sate before Calixtus , therby to force him to graunt and confirme the said Inuestitures , which now vpon a better mynd he gaue ouer againe . For this I find recorded by Malmesbury and others of that time ; that Calixtus being made Pope vpon the yeare 1119. and presently comming into France , and calling a Councell at Rhemes , K. Henry of England sent diuers Bishops at his commaundement vnto that Councell . And the next yeare after going to treat with the said Pope in person , at his Castell of Gesorse in Normandy : Acta sunt multae inter illos , &c. many things were treated between them ( saith Houeden ) as it was conuenient in the meeting of so great personages . But the principall was that Henry obtained of the Pope , to graunt vnto him , that he might haue all the customes cōfirmed , which his Father had in England and Normandy , & especially that none from thenceforth should be sent Legat into England , except the King , vpon some controuersie falling out which could not be ended by his Bishops , should demaund the same of the Pope . So Houeden . 15. Wherby we may see the Kings iudgment of the Pope ●●thority , and the recourse to be made thervnto in matters of mo●● moment . And that which is more , soone after this meeting , I find , that the foresaid Emperour made the like attonement with the same Calixtus , which Malmesbury recordeth in these word● In nomine Sancta & indiuiduae Trinitatis . Ego Henricus , &c. In the name of the holy and indiuisible blessed Trinity . I Henry by the Grace of God Emperour , &c. for the loue of God , and of the holy Romaine Church , and of my Lord Calixtus the Pope , and for remedy of my soule , doe remit freely to God and his holy Apostles S. Peter & S. Paul , and to his holy Catholike Church all inuestitures by ring and staffe , and doe yeeld and permit , that in all Churches within my Kingdomes and Empire , there be made Canonicall election , and free consecration of Ecclesiasticall persons , &c. 16. And thus was ended that fierce and bloudy controuersie ; that had lasted and troubled the whole Christian world aboue fifty yeares ( saith Malmesbury ) about the vse of Inuestitures , pretended by princes to be graunted vnto them and their auncestours by different Popes : But yet neuer challenged the same as incident to their Crowne or temporall iurisdiction , but as a priuiledge graunted by the Sea Apostolike , which might lawfully be done , as you haue heard by the former rule of Baldus the Lawyer , that the Pope may commit spirituall things , by priuiledge , in some cases , as the is , to a mere lay-man . And yet further if we seek the beginning of these inuestitures , how , and when , and to whome they were first graunted ; we shall find the matter very vncertaine . For albeit some haue thought , and written out of a certaine relation , in Sigebert his Chronicle ; that the first graunt of these Inuestitures was made by Pope Adrian the first vnto Charles the Great , in respect of his great meritts toward the Church : yet others doe hold this to be false , and that the name of Inuestitures was not knowne in those dayes , but rather crept in afterward ; yea , and rather taken and vsurped to themselues by certaine Princes , by inuasion of intrusion vpon the Church priuately first , & then more publikely afterward ( and therevpon pretended by their Successours ) than granted by speciall gift or consent of any Pope a● al●● . Which seemeth to haue byn the case also of our King Henry 〈◊〉 first , who as you haue heard , did pretend to challeng the i●●●●●●tures , as vsed by his Father and brother before him , wherof 〈◊〉 notwithstanding we finde no expresse proofe ( for example ) 〈◊〉 any of our historyes that they vsed them , and much lesse that they were lawfully graunted vnto them . And albeit they had byn , yet might the same authority which did graunt them , reuoke them againe vpon the notable abuses , which therof did ensue , by selling and buying of Churches by Princes and their officers . 17. But howsoeuer this were , yet is it manifest heerby , that as well those princes which violently tooke these inuestitures vpon them , as others that might haue them perhaps graunted for a tyme ; both of them ( I say ) did pretend to haue them from the Sea Apostolike , and therin acknowledged the Primacy and Supremacy of Ecclesiasticall power to be in that Sea , and not in themselues : Which is wholy against M. Attorneys conclusion . And therefore the said Emperour Henry the 5. when he deteyned prisoner the foresaid Pope Paescalis , and forced him to make a constrained graunt vnto him of the said Inuestitures , he would needs haue him put these words in his Bull. Illud igitur diguitatis priuilegium , &c. That priuiledge of dignity therfore , that our Predecessours Bishops of Rome haue graunted vnto your Predecessours Catholike Emperours , and haue confirmed the same by their Charters , we graunt also to you , and doe confirme by this present priuiledge and Charter , that vnto the Bishops and Abbots of your Kingdome , that shall be chosen freely without violence or Symmony , you may giue the inuestiture of staffe & ringe , and that after the said inuestiture , they may canonically receiue their consecration from the Bishop to whome it shall appertaine , &c. So he . 18. And now consider ( good Reader ) that if so great & potent an enemy of the Church of Rome , was so desirous to haue her graunt ( albeit perforce ) of such little peeces and raggs of Ecclesiasticall authority , as these were : how much more glad would he haue byn , to haue had all the Popes authority acknowledged to be in himself , if he could haue deriued it from the Title of his Crowne and Empire , as Syr Edward Cooke would haue taught him , if he had byn his Attorney : and how easily might he haue procured such a Statute to haue byn made vnto him , by his people in Parlament , as was made vnto Queen Elizabeth , to giue her all supreame authority Ecclesiasticall , that euer any person had , or might haue , if he had listed , or if he had thought it had byn worth the procurement . And surely it had bin a much more easie , and lesse costly way , to procure it at home in Germany , 〈◊〉 to haue gone to Rome with so mayne an army and extraordinary charges , labour , and daunger , as he did , to extort the same from the Pope ; and yet not all his authority , but a small peece therof , as hath byn said . 19. But now all was amended and accommodated againe , & as well the Emperour , as his Father-in-law K. Henry yelded vp all their pretended right in those inuestitures , as you haue heard . And as in the procuring and retaining them , by what manner soeuer , they acknowledged the spirituall power of the Sea of Rome ; so much more in rendring them vp againe . And for so much , as both their acts are presumed principally to haue proceeded of our K. Henry , all men may therby see his deuotion to that Sea. 20. And this deuotion and obedience he continued from that tyme forward vnto his death , which was some 15. years : in all which time I might shew diuers euident argumēts of this point , as of his often sending to Rome speciall Embassadours , the particular confidence that sundrie Popes had with him ( as may appeare by their letters vnto him ) his sending to Rome vpon the yeare 1123. VVilliam newlie elected Archbishop of Canterbury and Thurstyn of Yorke , to receiue their confirmation , and palls there , for more honour and deuotion of the place and Sea ; though otherwise , hee might haue procured the same to haue been sent to England , as eight years before he did , vnto Raphe Bishop of Canterbury , as Florentius declareth . 21. And two years after this againe , to wit. 1125. ( in which yeare the foresaid Emperour Henry died , that had kept so much stir about inuestitures ) there was a Synod celebrated in the Church of VVestminster , by order of Pope Honorius , his legat Cardinall Iohannes de Crema being present & President therof , wherin diuers Canons were decreed : and in the third ; That no Clergie man should receiue anie benefice at the hands of aelaie-man &c. without the approbation of his Bishop ; and if bee did , the donation should be void : Which the King tooke not to bee against himself , or anie way repined at that Councell , gathered by the Popes authoritie , neither at this Decree therof , that might concerne both him & his . Which well declareth the pietie of his minde , and what his iudgment was of his owne Ecclesiasticall authoritie , deriued from his Crowne . And now let vs see what M. Attorney hath obserued out of him and his raigne to the contrarie , that is to say , to proue his supreme iurisdiction . It is but one sole and solitary instance , and this nothing to the purpose , as presentlie you shall see . The Attorney . Henry by the grace of God K. of England , Duke of Normandy : to all Archbishops , Bishops , Abbotts , Earls , Barons , and to all Christians as well present , as to come &c. We doe ordaine , as well in regard of Ecclesiasticall , as royall power , that whensoeuer the Abbot of Reading shall dy , that all the possessions of the monasterie wheresoeuer it is , doe remaine entire and free , with all the rights and Customes therof , in the hands and disposition of the Prior & monkes of the Chapter of Reading . We doe therfore ordaine & establish this ordināce to bee obserued euer , because the Abbot of Reading hath no reuenewes proper and peculiar to himself , but cōmon with his brethren , whosoeuer by Gods wil shall be appointed Abbot in this place by Canonicall electiō , may not dispēd the Almes of the Abbey by ill vsage with his secular kinsmen , or anie other , but in entertaining poore pilgrimes & straūgers & that hee haue a care , not to giue out the rent-lands in fee , neither that he make any seruitours or souldiars , but in the sacred garment of Christ , wherin let him be aduisedlie prouident that he entertaine not young-ones , but that he entertaine men of ripe age or discreet , as well Clarks , as lay-men . The Catholike Deuine . 22. Heer I desire the prudent Reader to consider , how weake and feeble a battery M. Attorney bringeth forth , against so stronge and founded a bulwark , as before we haue set downe to the contrary ; wherin hauing shewed and demonstrated by sundry sortes of euident proofe , that King Kenry , as in all other points of Catholicke doctrine , vsage , and practice ; so in this speciall point of the Popes Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was a perfect Catholicke Prince , acknowledging and yeelding vnto him , his due spiritual superiority and eminency in euery occasion as you haue heard . Now M. Attorney , from whome we expected some substantiall proofe to the contrary , to wit , that he acknowledged not , nor practised the same , but held this supremacy to be in himself , as deriued from his Crowne , in as ample sorte , as Q. Elizabeth had , or might haue by the Statute of Parlament , that gaue her all power , that had byn , or might be in any spirituall person whatsoeuer , &c. To proue all this ( I say ) he com●●●● forth now , with this one sole Charter , which you haue he●●● whereby the said King , as founder of the Abbey of Reading , doth assure the lands and temporall possessions , which he had giuen to the said Abbey , that neither Ecclesiasticall , nor Royall power shall take away , or distract the same vpon any occasion after the Abbots death ; but that they shall remaine entyre and free , with all their rights , in the hands of the Couent , Prior , and Monks therof , vntill a new Abbot be Canonically elected , who shall haue no propriety in any parte therof , but all common with his brethren : in regard wherof he is willed to dispend the same religiously , according to the founders meaning and intention , as out of the words of the Charter it self you haue heard . 23. And now what proueth all this against vs , or for our aduersarie ? Or why is it brought forth think you ? For heer ● mention only of temporall matters , for assuring the possession , and due vse of the monasteries temporalityes : Heer is no mention at all , or meaning of spirituall iurisdiction . And how then is this drawne in to M. Attorneys purpose ? We haue shewed before out of the examples of diuers Kings , that founded sundry monasteryes before the Conquest , namely K. Ethelbert that of Canterbury : K. Offa that of S. Albans : K. Edward that of VVestminster , and others : that besides the ordinary power and priuiledges , which founders of pious works , haue by the Canon-lawes ( which are many and great ) to dispose of their owne donations , and to assure the same according to their perpetuall intention : The Sea of Rome was wont also to graunt them authority oftentymes , to dispose and ordaine spirituall priuiledges , to be confirmed afterward by the same Sea , as out of diuers like Charters and Graunts you haue heard ; which was much more then this , which heer M. Attorney alleadgeth ( though nothing to his purpose ) to proue his maine proposition of supreame Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction deriued from Princes Crownes . 24. Wherof it ensueth , that this is lesse then nothing . And if he will vrge those words of the Charter , VVe doe ordaine as ru 〈…〉 regard of Ecclesiasticall , as Royall power , which in latin are : Stat●i●● autem tam Ecclesiasticae quam Regia prospectu potestatis , &c. it is also lesse then nothing ; importing only , that he both as King and founder , forbiddeth all men , both Ecclesiasticall , and temporall , to enter vpon the lands , which he hath giuen to the said monast●●● , either by spirituall or Royall authority : euen as you haue heard K. Edgar before prohibite the like concerning the monastery of Medeshamsted founded by him . Vt nullus Ecclesiasticorum vel laicorum super ipsum Dominium habeat . That no Ecclesiasticall or lay-person haue dominion ouer it , or ouer the Abbot thereof ; signifyinge in the same place , that this priuiledge notwithstanding was confirmed by the Pope and Archbishop of England . And the like we may presume of this other of K. Henry , as also we may note the great respect that he bare ( euen in this Charter ) to the Church , for that he putteth Ecclesiasticall before Royall in this affaire . And finally all this auailing nothing to the point , wherevnto M. Attorney should haue brought it , he remaineth destitute of any instance out of this Kings raigne , as well as out of his Predecessour & Successour : of which Successour we haue now also to say a word or two , to end this Chapter withall . OF THE RAIGNE . OF KING STEPHEN , The fourth King after the Conquest . §. II. 25. After K. Henry raigned K. Stephen his Nephew , that is to say , the sonne of his sister , eighteene years & somewhat more ; wherin the misery and vncertainty of humaine designements is seene that K. Henry the first , who had laboured so much to establish after him , his owne succession in England by his sonnes ; & the like in the Empire by marriage of his daughter Maude to Henry the 5. Emperour , as you haue heard : and to this effect was induced to cut of so many noble men and houses , both in England and Normandy , and to pull out his owne brothers eyes for more assurance therof , holding him almost thirty years in perpetuall prison vntill his death ; hauing heaped togeather infinite riches and treasures ( saith Malmesbury ) to wit aboue a hundred thousand pounds in ready-money besides plate and Iewels , to establish these his designements , &c. that now notwithstanding all was dashed vpon the suddaine , his male children being drowned vpon sea , and his daughter returning without issue from Germany , & 〈◊〉 dispossessed in like manner of her inheritance to England by 〈◊〉 neerest kinsman Stephen , that first of all other had sworne ●●mage vnto her in her Fathers dayes . 26. This man then , hauing gotten the possession of the Crowne , albeit he had infinite troubles therewith , and the Realme much more by this means , and by his instability of nature , who was wont ( saith Malmesbury ) to begin many things , & goe through with few , to promise much and perfourme little : yet held he out for more then 18. years togeather , as I haue said . And in all this time though he had little leasure to attend peculiarly to Ecclesiasticall matters , and lesse will oftentymes , being wholy intangled in matters of warre : yet his whole course and race of life sheweth euidently , that in this point , either of beleife or practice , concerning Ecclesiasticall power , he did not differ or dissent from his auncestors , or from other Christian Catholike Princes , that liued round about him in those dayes . Nay , he was held for so religious in this behalfe , before he was King as the opinion therof did greatly further him to gaine the Kingdome . For that ( saith Malmesbury ) Henry Bishop of VVinchester , which now was Legate of the Sea Apostolicke in England , that principally was the cause of his preferment to the Crowne , was induced therevnto by most certaine hope , that Stephen would follow the manners of his grand-father the Conquerour , in gouerning the Crowne , but especially in preseruing the discipline of Ecclesiasticall vigour ; and vpon this hope , did the said Bishop interpose himself , as mediatour and pledge for Stephen , with VVilliam Archbishop of Canterbury , and the rest of the Bishops and nobility , exacting of him a strict oath De libertare reddenda Ecclesia , & conseruanda . For restoring and conseruing the liberty of the Church , which VVilliam Rufus by his loose gouernment , had much infringed . 27. The same Malmesbury also that liued with him setteth downe the mutuall oathes , both of him and his nobility , the one to the other . surauerunt Episcopi fidelitatem Regi ( saith he ) quamdiu ille libertatem Ecclesiae & vigorem disciplina conseruaret . The Bishops did sw●●● homage and fidelity to the King , as long as he maintained the liberty of the Church , and vigour of discipline therin . But the Kings oath was large , concerning his election , admission , crowinge by the Archbishop of Canterbury as Legat Apostolicall , that he was particularly confirmed by Pope Innocentius , &c. And then it followeth : Ego Stephanus &c. respectu & amore Dei , Sanctam Ecclesiam liberam esse , &c. I King Stephen doe graunt , and confirme for the respect and loue I beare to allmighty God , to maintaine the freedome of his Church , & doe promise , that I will neither doe , nor permit any symmoniacall act of selling or buying benefices within the same . I doe testifie also and confirme , that the persons and goods of all Clergy-men , be in the hands , power , and iustice of their Bishops , &c. And I doe confirme by these presents , and their , dignityes , priuiledges , and auncient customes to be inuiolably obserued , &c. 28. This oat● made he at his first entrance , as Rufus & others had done before him , wherby they testified not only their iudgment , but also their obligation , though afterward in obseruance therof many times they failed vpon particular interest or passion mouing them to the contrary . For so writeth Malmesbury also of this King. Penè omnia ita perperàm mutauit posteà , quasi ad hoc tantum iurass●t , vt preuaricatorem Sacramenti se Regno toti ostenderet . He did afterward in his life , so peruersly breake all that he had sworne , as though his swearing had byn only to this effect , to shew himself an Oath-breaker to the whole Kingdome . But yet presently after he excuseth him againe : Sed haec omnia non tam illi , quam Confiliarijs eius ascribendae put● . But I doe thinke all these things , to be ascribed rather to euill Counsellours , then to himself . 29. One notable case fell out vpon the 4. yeare of his raigne , to wit in the yeare of our Lord 1139. when holding his Courte in the Citty of Oxford , and expecting dayly the comming out of Normandy of Robert Earle of Glocester , in fauour of Maude the Empresse , ( I meane that famous Robert base sonne of K. Henry the first , most excellent in wisedome and feats of Armes , and a great fauourer of learned men , to whome both Malmesbury and Geffrey of Monmouth dedicated their books ) the King being persuaded ( I say ) by certaine il Counselours and souldiars about him , to lay hands vpon the goods and Castles of two rich and potent Bishops , the one Roger of Salisbury that had byn Chaplaine to King Henry ; and the other Alexander of Lincolne his nephew , and the Kings Chauncelour ; he followed at length their counsaile , and caused both Bishops to be apprehended , and forced to deliuer vp the keyes of their Castles and treasures therein , pretending feare and doubt , least they would otherwise hape kept the same for the said Earle of Glocester and Maude the Empresse● 〈◊〉 30. And albeit these two Bishops power & greatnes had 〈◊〉 much misliked also by the Cleargie it self ; yet seeing ( saith Malmesbury ) this violence to be vsed against the Canons , they admonished the King therof by diuers waies , especially by his brother Bishop of VVinchester , now also Legate of the Sea Apostolicke , a likewise by Theobald Archbishop of Canterbury that had succeeded William ; who went so far , and were so earnest in this matter ( saith Malmesbury then liuing ) : vt suppliciter pedibus Regis in cubicul● effusi , orauerunt , vt misereretur Ecclesiae , misereretur anima & fama s●●ne pateretur fieri dissidium inter Regnum & sacerdotium . They falling downe at the Kings feet in his chamber , besought him most humbly , that he would haue pittie of the Church , mercie of his owne soule and good name , and that hee would not suffer diuision , and sedition to bee made between the Kingdome and Preisthood . Wherat ( saith he ) the King rising respectiuelie from his seate , albeit hee excused his fact by laying the ent●● therof vpon others ; yet being preuented by euill counsaile , hee neuer perfourmed in substance , the good promises that hear vpon he made . 31. Wherefore it seemed best to the said Legate and Archbishop to call a Synod at VVinchester , and to cite the King there vnto vnder paine of Censures to appeer therin , and to giue the reason of this his violent fact against the foresaid two Bishops ; for so much as if they had offended : Non esse Regis , sed Canonum in●●cium affirmabant . They affirmed the iudgment of this , did not appertaine to the King , but to the Canons of the Church . 32. This Ecclesiasticall Councell then being called togeather vpon the first of September , Non abnuente Rege , not altogeather against the Kings will ( saith Malmesbury ) who was present in the said Citty of Oxford , he sent two Earles for his proctors , with an excellent learned aduocate or Attorney called Albericus de V●●● who excusing the Kings fact , & shewing many reasons of S●●●● which forced him to assure himself of those stronge Castell sand holds , in so suspitions a time as this was , as also to retaine their wealth therin found , for that one of them being Chauncellour had many money-reckonings to make to the King ; conclu●●● in the end , that the King presumed to haue done nothing against the Canons of the Church & true meaning therof in such a 〈◊〉 for that the self same Canons did forbid Bishops to buyld such stronge Castells . And in this later point Hugh Archbishop of Rome being newly come to this Councell , did take the Kings parte ; affirming that in so suspitious a tyme , the King might without breach of Church-canons , demaund the keyes of any Bishops Castle within his Realme . But the legate & Archbishop of Canterbury were of opinion , that first the violence of the fact should be remedied , and then the matter tried according to the said Canons : which the King refusing to doe , the two Bishops interessed appealed to Rome , whervnto the King answered by his Attorney Albericus in these words : For as much as some of the Bishops had vsed threats , and were preparing to send some to Rome against the King ; in this ( said he ) the King doth commend them for their appealinge : but yet he would haue them know , that if any went against his will , and against the honour of the Realme , his returne home should be harder then perhaps he imagined . Nay moreouer the King shewing himself greiued in this cause , did of his owne free-will and motion , appeale for himself to Rome . Which when the King , partly praising their appeale , & partely threatning ( as you se ) had vttered , all men vnderstood whitherto it tended , to wit that they should not carry the matter to Rome at all , but end it at home . 33. This was the euent of that Councell ; which I haue related somewhat more largely out of the writing of an eye-witnes , for that it expresseth manifestly what was then held and practised for truth in our controuersie . For that K. Stephen and his learned Councell , and Attorney did not stand vpon denyinge the Popes Ecclesiasticall authority , as our Attorney doth now , nor yet of the Bishops of his Realme in Ecclesiasticall matters , but is content to vnder-goe the same , defending only the reason and lawfullnes of his said fact ; nor did he pretend by reason of Kingly Crowne to haue this iurisdiction , but allowed , as you haue heard , both their appeale to Rome , and appealed also himself . And surely if our Attorney and that Attorney should haue disputed about the plea that was to be held therin , they would greatly haue differed ; & yet was that Attorney in Causaruns varietate exercitatus ( saith Malmesbury ) much exercised in all variety of causes : but his iudgemēt , learninge , & beleife , was different from that of ours , though he were foure hundred years elder . And so to returne to our Story againe , this was the successe of these affaires , and conforme to this was all the rest of his life and raigne : as for example when Innocentius the Pope did call to Rome 〈◊〉 Archbishop of Canterbury , Simon Bishop of VVorcester , Roger Bishop of Couentry , Robert Bishop of Excester , Reynold Abbot of Euishant , ●o sit and haue their voices in a Generall Councell , ( saith Florentin● ) the King presently obeyed and sent them thither . The same Stephen also made suite , and obtained of Pope Lucius the 2. ( saith VValsingham ) that the Sea of VVinchester should be an Archbishopricke , and haue seauen Bishopricks vnder it , which had byn effectuated if the same Pope had liued . But the ensuing Popes not liking therof , it tooke no place , though the said King desired it much , and would , no doubt , haue done it by himself , if he had thought his owne spirituall authority to haue byn sufficient for that matter . 34. Another case also fell out of great moment , between Pope Eugenius the 3. that ensued Lucius , and K. Stephen , which was about VVilliam Archbishop of Yorke , called afterward S. VVilliam , who being Nephew vnto the said King , that is , borne of his sister Lady Emma , and by his procurement made Chanon & Treasurer of the Church of Yorke , was after the death of Archbishop Thurstan , chosen by tha maior parte of the Chanons , to be Archbishop of the said Sea ; who sending the certificate and authenticall writings of his election vnto Rome to be confirmed first by Pope Celestinus , and after by Pope Eugenius then newly chosen : he was first called to Rome sore against K. Stephens will , and being there , was charged ( as both Nubergensis that liued at that tyme , and others doe largely declare ) that his election was not Canonicall . And so after much pleading of the matter ( wherin are extant also diuers earnest and vehement Epistles of S. Bernard to Pope Celestinus , & after to Pope Eugenius against the said election ) the conclusion was , that VVilliam the Kings nephew , insteed of receiuing his approbation and Pall for his installment , was depriued , and sent backe into England againe without any benefice at all , where he liued for the space of seauen years with his other vncle , Henry Bishop of VVinchester in great perfection and austerity of life , vntill the said Bishopricke being void againe , he was chosen the second tyme , and going to Rome was confirmed by Pope Anastasius that ensued Eugenius . 35. But now for the first time , notwithstanding all that King Stephen could doe or intreat for him , he was depriued , as hath byn said , and one Henry Murdat a learned man , Abbot of a monastery of S. Bernards Order in VVells , who also had byn schollar in the monastery of Clare-vallis vnder the said S. Bernard , was promoted vnto the dignity , and proued a notable good Archbishop , though at the beginning he being contradicted by the King , had great difficulty to enter ; the people also being against him , as well for feare of the said King , as for fauour and loue of the other good man deposed : and the Kings sonne Eustachius going to Yorke vpon that occasion , vsed great violence , and insolency ( and some not to be named ) against such as had opposed themselues against the election of the said deposed . But finally the sentence and iudgement of Pope Eugenius tooke place , and K. Stephen after a time permitted the other to liue quietly in his Bishopricke : whereby we may see , what power and iurisdiction the Pope had for such matters in England at that time . And that neither K. Stephen , nor his sonne Eustachius , nor any of his Counsell , went euer about to say for their pretence or excuse , that these things belonged to the Kings authority-Royall , & not to the Popes tribunall . 36. All which points being laid togeather , and many other that for breuity I doe pretermit , it commeth to be manifest , that whatsoeuer actions this King , in those infinite troubles , fears , and suspicious of his , might sometymes vse for his gaine or interest , or vpon persuasion of others , against the Church or libertyes therof : yet was his will and iudgement truly Catholike in this point , nor was he euer noted for the contrary ; nor doth M. Attorney alleadge any one instance out of him or his tyme , to that purpose . And therfore shall we passe to other Kings after him . OF THE RAIGNE OF KING HENRY THE SECOND Great Grand-child to the Conquerour : And of his two sonnes K. Richard and K. Iohn , and their conformityes in this controuersie . CHAP. IX . AS in the former Chapter for breuityes sake , we ioyned three Kings togeather ; so shall we doe the like in this : especially for so much as M. Attorney hath no one instance out of any of them , whose raignes iudured for the space of aboue threescore years ; and thereby sufficiently testifieth , that in this point of the Popes Ecclesiasticall authority , their beleife , iudgements , and actions were correspondent and vniforme to those of their progenitors and predecessors , as also were their lawes ; & consequently ( which allwayes is to be borne in mind ) the common lawes of their dayes , could not be contrary to that iurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome , which they themselues euerywhere did acknowledge , professe and practise . For better declaration notwithstanding wherof , we shall not omit to set downe some particular and seuerall notes , as well of these Kings , and their successors , as we haue done of the former . OF KING HENRY THE SECOND , The fifth King after the Conquest . §. I. 2. This King then was a French-man borne , as well as K. Stephen , & of the English-bloud only , by Maude the Empresse daughter to K. Henry the first , & neece to the Conquerour . He was sonne and heire to Geffrey Duke of Anioy and Poytoù , and a little before his inheritance of England , he had the rare fortune ( as then it was thought ) to marry with the young Queene Eleanor lately diuorced from K. Lewes the seauenth of France , vpon their falling out after their returne from Ierusalem , which Queene was daughter and heire to the Duke of Aquitaine ; so as all those States of Gascoyne , Gwyan , Poytoù , Anioy and Normandy , were vnited togeather in this K. Henry , and by him conioyned to England . The Dukedome of Brittany also falling in his tyme to the inheritance of an only daughter of Duke Canon , King Henry procured to marry the same to his third sonne Geffrey , for he had foure by his said Queen that liued togeather , besides a fifth that died young . It was his chaunce also to haue an English Pope , named Adryan in his daies , by whose fauour and concession he got interest to Ireland , so as if we respect the greatnes and multitude of his dominions ; he was the most puissant King of all , that euer had dominion ouer our nation vntill that day . 3. But if we respect his manners , you may ( besides others writers ) read a whole Chapter in Nubergensis , of the conflict & combat betweene vices and vertues in him , though he conclude that his vertues were the more , and his vices were sore punished in him by almighty God in this life , to the end that his soule might be saued in the next , as the same Author writeth . And to this effect was he punished and afflicted most in those things , wherin he had taken most delight , and for which he had most perhaps offended God ; as first in the alluring of the said Q. Eleanor to make the foresaid diuorce from the King of France to marry him , who afterward was a great affliction vnto him : for that ha●●●● borne him many faire children , she set the same against him , ●● thervpon the former ardent loue waxing cold between them , he was the more induced to liue lasciuiously with others , and ●● the end committed her to prison , and held her so , for neere a dozen years togeather before his death . 4. His children also he couered exceedingly to aduaūce , crowning the elder of them King in his owne daies , by the name of K. Henry the third , and giuing him in possession the States of Gascoyne and Gwyan ; the second being Richard , he made Earle of Poitoù ; the third which was Geffrey , he inuested ( as hath byn said ) in the Dukedome of Brittany ; and the fourth named Iohn , for that he had no seuerall State as yet to giue him , he called in iest s●●● terre , or lack-land , signifying therby the great desire he had to prouide some State for him . And for effectuating this ( saith Nubergensi● which liued in that age ) that is to say , for aduauncing his children , he offered iniuries to many : wherby it came to passe by Gods iust iudgement , that they all at different times conspired against him . For first about the middest of his raigne , both the mother and the children banded themselues against him , with Lewes the K. of France , that had byn her former husband , wherof Petrus Blesensis , that was his latin Secretary , maketh mention in diuers epistles that are extant , as namely , in one written by two Archbishops that had byn his Embassadours to the said K. Lewes , to make peace , but could not ; who discouered that both his Queene and children had all conspired against him . Quid amabilius ●ilijs ( say they ) quid vxore familiarius , recessit tamon vxor à latere vestro , & filij insurgunt in patrem . What is more delectable them children , what is more neere or familiar then the wife . And yet is your wife departed from your side , and your children are risen against their father , &c. And in the same epistle , they counsaile him to looke well to his person , for that they sought his destruction . 5. And the same is testified in another epistle written by the Archbishop of Roane in Normandy vnto Q. Eleanor her self , wherin he persuadeth her vehemently by manie reasons , to returne to the obedience and freindship of her King and husband ; and in the end threatneth to vse the Censures of the Church against her , if she obaied not . Parochiana eniu● nostra es ( saith he ) sicut & ●● 〈◊〉 , non p●ssumus deesse iustitia , &c. For you are our Parishioner , a● also your husband ; I cannot but doe iustice , either you must returne , to your husband againe , or by the Canon-law I shall be forced to constraine you by Ecclesiasticall censures . I write this vnwillingly , and if you repent not , I must doe it , though with sorrow and teares . 6. The like letter at the same time , wrote Richard Archbishop of Canterbury to K. Henry the sonne , persuading him by diuers earnest arguments , to returne into grace with his Father , and in the end threatned him , that if within fifteen dayes he perfourmed it not , he had expresse commaundement from the Pope to excommunicate him . But how this matter was afterward ended , or compounded rather for that present , you shall heare a little beneath , though againe vpon other occasions , matters brake forth & brought the afflicted King at last to the most miserable state of desolation in minde , that euer perhaps was read of in historyes . For that , as Stow out of auncient writers reporteth , he died cursing the day that euer he was borne , and giuing Gods curse and his to his sonnes , ( which were only two liuing at that time ) and that he would neuer release or goe backe in this , albeit he was intreated by diuers , both Bishops and other religious persons , euen vntill the very houre of his death . Wher vnto Nubergensis addeth this saying for some reason therof . Nondum ( vti credo ) satu defleuerat , &c. He had not ( as I beleeue ) mourned or bewailed sufficiently the rigour of that most vnfortunate obstination of mind , which he had vsed against the venerable Archbishop Thomas ( in giuing the occasion of his murder ) and therefore doe I thinke this great Prince to haue had so miserable an end in this world , that our Lord not sparing him heere , might by his temporall punishment prepare him euerlasting mercy in the life to come . So Nubergensis . And this for his manners and conuersation , wherin otherwise the said Author doth much commend him for a good Iusticer and leuing Father to his people ; a great Almes-man and founder of pious works ; and for a principall defender and preseruer of Ecclesiasticall libertyes , &c. 7. But now if we consider the point of our controuersie about his religion , and particular iudgement in the matter of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction ; no King euer of our nation did make the matter more cleere for his obedience to the Sea of Rome in all occasions , wherof he had many in his dayes , & some of them neerly concerning himselfe , as that of Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury , who for opposing himself against certaine new Statutes and Ordinances of the said King , which in the heat of 〈◊〉 greatnes and temporall fortune , he would haue made against the liberty of the Church , pretending them to haue byn of his Grand-father K. Henry the first ( and if they had byn , the antiquity was not great as you see ) the said Archbishop incurred highly his heauy indignation , which cost him afterward his life , as is notorious . And these lawes were six in number , as the histories of that time doe sett them downe . The first , that no appellation might be made to Rome without he Kings consent . The second , that no Bishop might goe out of the Realme without the Kings lic●nce , though he were called by the Pope himself . The third , that no Bishop may excommunicate any man that held of the King in capite , but by the Kings approbation . The fourth , that it shall not appertaine to the Bishop to punish men for periury , ●● violating their faith ; but that it shall belonge to the Kings Courts . The fifth , that Clarks may be drawne to secular tribunals in certaine causes . The sixt , that the King and his lay-Iudges may determine controuersies about titbes or Churches . 8. These were the lawes , for which K. Henry the second made so much adoe to haue them passe , as he enpawned his whole power therin , & moued , for so much as in him lay , both heauen and earth to effectuate them , euen by the Pope himself , but could not . And yet you see , that heere is not pretended any absolute spirituall iurisdiction , but only delegatory in certaine little peeces and parcels therof , or rather some little restraint of that supreme authority , which he acknowledged to be in the Sea of Rome . But yet for the good and peace of his land he pretended to haue them graunted , confirmed , & allowed vnto him , as he said they had byn to his Grand-father , but could not shew it . For as you haue heard in the life of K. Henry the first , the holy and learned prelate S. Anselme stood against him in such sorte , so as he preuailed not . 9. It is heer also specially to be noted against M. Attorney , that this King pretended not ( as hath byn said ) to haue this iurisdiction against Clergie men by right of his Crowne , but by concession rather of his Bishops , and confirmation of the Pope himself . For so expresly affirmeth Houeden that liued at that tyme , that he required the seales of the said Bishops , and confirmation of Pope Alexander the third ; whervnto when Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury , that was Legatus-natus would not yeeld : the King sent messengers to Rome presently saith Houeden , to wit , Iohn ●●●●ford & Geffrey Ridell , to desire of Pope Alexander , that he would make his extraordinary Legat in England , Roger Archbishop of Yorke , an old emulator and enemy of S. Thomas . But the Pope perceiuing his drifte , which was to oppresse the said Archbishop of Canterbury , denyed the Kings petition in this behalfe , though at the request of the Kings said messengers , Consessit Dominus Papa , vt Rexipse Legatus esset totius Angliae , it a tamen , quod ipse nullum grauamen facere posset Cantuariensi Archiepiscopo . The Pope graunted that K. Henry himself should be his Legat ouer all England ; but yet so , as he should not be able , to lay any aggreiuaunce vpon the Archbishop of Canterbury : that is to say , should not preiudicate his ordinary iurisdiction , or haue any authority ouer him . Which point the King perceiuing , and that his whole intent of oppressing the said Archbishop was heerby preuented , he would not , through indignation ( saith our Author ) accept of the said legation , but sent back the Popes letters of that commission to him againe . Wherby you see , that he refused the said office , for that he thought the iurisdiction giuen him , was lesse then he would haue had , and not for that he did not acknowledge the whole to be in the Pope , and nothing in himself , as from the right of his Crowne . 10. But to abbridge this matter , concerning his contention with S. Thomas , wherof afterward he sore repented himself , as you will heare ; though he entred into the same with great heat and resolution , to goe through therin by his power and authority with the Pope : yet when he saw the said Pope to mislike his proceedings , and to stand constant against him , he amayned and and humbled himself presently , and this in respect of his conscience and feare of God , as himself caused to be written by his Bishops to the said Pope Alexander . For there is extant in Houeden a large epistle of all the Bishops Suffragans of Canterbury , that were subiects to Thomas the Archbishop , written vnto Pope Alexander in the Kings name , of his prompt obedience towards him , and the Sea of Rome in all things , saying : Ad vestra quidem mandata non itatus intumuit , non elatus obedire contempsit , verum gratias agens paterna correctioni , Ecclesia se statim submisit examini . when the King receiued your commaundements , he did not swell with anger , nor proudly contemned to obey , but giuing thankes for your Fatherly correction , did presently submit himself to the examination of the Church . And againe . Ipse diuini reuerentia timoris , 〈◊〉 Maiestatempreferens , sed vt filius obediens , se iudicio sistere , legitimaeque parere sententiae , seque legibus alligatum Prinscipem , praesto est in omnibus exhibere . He for reuerence and respect of the fear of God , did not prefer the maiesty of his Kingly State , but as an obedient sonne , is ready in all things , to stand to iudgement , and to obey lawfull sentence , acknowledging himself , though he be a Prince , to be bound to the lawes of the Church . 11. This then , was his disposition of mind in this behalfe , which he presently shewed in fact , by sending a most honorable Embassage to the Pope , to wit , the Archbishop of Yorke , & Bishops of VVinchester , London , Chichester and Excester , with the Earles , Arundell , the Gundauell de Sancto Valerico , and many others both gentlemen and Clarks . And as Houeden affirmeth ; Appellauit pro se & regno suo , ad Praesentiam Summi Pontificis ; He appealed for himself and for his kingdome to the Pre●ence of the Pope ; desiring that two Legats might be sent into England to iudge of the cause , between him & the Archbishop . And soone after when the Archbishop , vpon pacification made was returned , and within a few moneths after wikedly slaine in his owne Church of Canterbury ; the same Pope Alexander taking vpon him , as lawfull Iudge , to examine & punish the fact vpon the person of K. Henry himself , sent two Cardinall-Legats for that purpose into Normandy , named Graetianus & Viuianus , as Houeden at large setteth downe the history . Wherof K. Henry being aduertised , that was present then in those partes beyond the Seas , and fearing the euent , Ad Praesentiam Summi Pontifi●● appellauit , appealed againe ( as once he had done before ) to the presence of the Pope himself from his said Legats . Wherby we see that he graunted & acknowledged the Popes authority ouer him in that matter . And the same writer addeth in the same place , that the said King fearing also ( notwithstanding his appeale ) the seuerity of the Sea Apostolicke in this case , passed ouer presently into England , giuing straite order and commaundment , that no man should be permitted to enter with any Bull or Bre●● of the Pope of what sorte soeuer , except first he gaue caution & security , that he would thereby bring no hurte or greiuaunce to the King or Kingdome . 12. But after this againe ( to omit many other things and iu●d●dicall Acts , which passed in this affaire , set downe by the said Houeden , and other authors of that time ) two other Cardinall-●●gats , Theodinus and Albertus were finally directed from the said Pope Alexander into Normandy , to giue the last sentence vpon the matter . Vnto whome K. Henry being then in Ireland , and cited to appeere came purposely to present himself in person , which notably signifieth his obedience . And there by his oath he purged himself , swearing first , that his intention was neuer to procure the said Archbishops death , and secondly promising diuers things by the same oath , to be performed in satisfaction of his fault , in hauing giuen some occasion therof by angry words against the same Archbishop Thomas . All which is set downe in the said Author vnder this title , recorded likewise by Peter Blesensis . Purgatio Henrici Regis pro morte Beati Thomae . The purgation or satisfaction of K. Henry for the death of S. Thomas ; & therevpon ensueth . Charta absolutionis Domini Regis . The charter of absolution of our Lord the King by the said Legats in the Popes name . 13. And amongst other six or seauen points , whervnto the King sware at this time , one is set downe in these words . He sware also , that he would neither let , nor permit to be letted , any Appellations to be made in his Kingdome , to the Bishop of Rome in Ecclesiasticall causes , with this condition , that if any that doe appeale be suspected to the King , they should giue security , that they would not seeke , or procure any hurte to him or his Kingdome . And so was that controuersie ended , and the lawes abolished , which the King would haue established against the liberty of the Church . Wherby we se cleerly what persuasion K. Henry had of the Popes supreame authority in Ecclesiasticall affaires , and his loyall obedience thervnto ; which is so much the more to be esteemed , if we consider the circumstances of the tyme wherin he exhibited the same , which was such , as he might easily haue declined himself ( if he would ) from the force of Pope Alexander his authority , that pressed him so much , by adhering to some one of his enemyes the Antipopes , that by faction of a few were chosen & set vp against him , three or foure one after another , naming themselues , Victor the 4. Calixtus the 3. and Pascalis the 3. and held out against him , for more then 17. years togeather , by the power and peruersity of Fredericus Barba-rossa the first Emperour of that name , who often also allured K. Henry to be partaker of his Schisme , but he refused , followinge heerin his Catholicke auncestors VVilliam the Conquerour , that stood constantly with the true Popes of his tyme , Alexander the 2. and Gregory the 7. against those that by sedition of Henry the 4. Emperour , were set vp against them , to wit Cadolus , calling himself Honorius the 2. and Gilbertus , that was named Clement the 2. K. Henry also the first obaied the true Popes of his tyme , Paschalis the 2. G●lasius the 2. Calixtus the 2. Honorius the 2. & Innocentius the 2. against six schismaticall intruders , calling themselues , Clement the 3. Syluester the 3. Gregory the 8. Celestinus the 2. Anacletus the 2. Victor the 4. all set vp & maintained by the German Emperours Henry the 4. and fifth , and by Lotharius the 2. after them . But our Kings of England obayed allwayes their true and lawfull Pastors of Gods Church , and were highly commended for it . And now K. Henry the 2. followed their vertues , wisedome , religion , and magnanimity in that behalfe ; and found ( no doubt ) his reward in the life to come for it . And so much of this . 14. But now to passe to another consideration about the same King , it seemeth to me , that nothing sheweth more this King● true affection , deuotion , and confidence towards the Pope and Sea of Rome , then his owne recourse thervnto in his greatest affliction before mentioned , of the conspiracy of his wife and children against him . For then he wrote a very lamentable letter vnto Pope Alexander , beginning thus . Sanctissimo Domino suo Alexandre , Dei gratia Catholicae Ecclesia Summo Pontifici , Henricus Rex Angliae , &c. Salutem & deuotae subiectionis obsequium . In which letter , among other things , he saith thus : Vbipleniorem voluptatem contulerat mihi Domm●● , ibi grauius me flagellat , & quod sine lachrymis non dico , contra sanguine●●●eum & viscera mea , cogor odium mortale concipere , &c. Where God hath giuen me greatest pleasure and contentment , there doth he most whip me now , and that which without teares I doe not speake vnto you , I am constrained to conceiue mortall hatred against my owne bloud , and my owne bowels . My freinds haue left me , and those of myne owne house doe seeke my life , & this secret coniuration ( of my wife and children ) hath so intoxicated the minds of all my most familiar freinds , as they prefer their traiterous obedience to my sonne , and would rather beg with him , then raigne with me , and enjoy most ample dignities , &c. Abse●● corpore , presens tamen animo , me vestris aduolno genibus : I being absent in body , but present in mynd with you , doe cast my self at your knees : Vestrae iurisdictionis est Regnum Angliae , &c. Experiatur Anglia , quid possit Romanus Pontifex . The Kingdome of England is vnder your iurisdiction . Let England learne by experience , what the Bishop of Rome can doe . Promitto me dispositioni vestra in omnibus pariturum . I doe promise to obay your disposition in all hings . 15. Thus he wrote at that tyme with teares , as you haue heard , wherewith Pope Alexander being greatly moued , sent commaundement to Richard Archbishop of Canterbury , to write earnestly vnto K. Henry the sonne , to recall him from his rebellion vnder paine of excommunication , as before we haue shewed . And this confident recourse of K. Henry to the Pope in so great an affaire , declareth well the opinion he had of his authority . And conforme vnto this , were all the rest of his actions and doings , concerning Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , when he was out of passion and perturbation , acknowledging none at all in himself , but only from the Sea Apostolike . And heervpon he fouuded the security of all his hopes , by his first marriage with the Queen Eleanor , as hath byn said , whose diuorce from King Lewes was vpon the Popes sentence , declaringe the same to be inualide and no marriage at all , by reason that they were married within degrees of consanguinity prohibited by the Church . 16. And soone after this againe , about the 6. yeare of his raigne the same King ( as Stow relateth ) procured dispensation of the said Pope by his Legat-Cardinalls , Henricus Pisanus , and Gulielmus Papionensis , to make a marriage between Henry his eldest sonne of seauen years old , and Margaret the French Kings daughter , that was yet but of three years old , which he would not haue done by all likelihood , with so manifest perill of his whole succession therby , if he had either doubted of the Popes authority therin , or presumed of his owne . 17. And not many years after this againe , the said King being very desirous to remoue from the Church of VValtam in Essex certaine secular Chanons , that liued not with edification , and to place in their roome regular Chanons , presumed not to doe it of himself , or his owne authority ( which yet might seeme a small matter ) but by the authority of the Pope . Rex ( saith Houeden ) ex authoritate Domini Papae instituit in Ecclesia de VValtham Canonicos regulares . The King did appoint regular Chanons in the Church of VValtham , by the authority of the Pope . And the same doth testifie VValsingham vpon the yeare 1177. that it was done in the vigil of Penticost : Authoritate Summi Pontificis sub praesentia Regis . By the authority of the Bishop of Rome , the King being present at the doing . 18. And the same VValsingham two years after that againe , doth record another iudiciall Act of the said Pope Alexander in England , which is , that he exempted from the obedience of the Archbishop of Canterbury , Roger , that was Prior of the monastery of S. Augustine in the same Citty , which had byn subiect to him ( saith he ) for fiue hundred years before . And it is probable , that neither the King , nor Archbishop did like thereof , but could not let the same . 19. And finally to goe no further in this matter , of this Kings obedience and deuotion towards the Church , when he was out of choller and passion , and free from such other perturbations , as did draw him strōgly oftentimes to the doing of certaine things , which after he repented ; I shall end with one shorte narration only of the foresaid VValsingham , or a strange extremity and aduersity of fortune , from which God deliuered him at one tyme , by means of his deuout mynd towards the blessed Martyr S. Thomas of Canterbury , vpon the year 1174. which was three yeares after his said martyrdome , at what time the Kings state was this , as partly before you haue heard . Lewys King of France cōioyning himself with Henry the third King of England , and the rest of his brethren against their Father , pressed him sore with great armies in Normandy , and other partes of his Dominions in France . And at the very same time , his wife Queen Eleanor in England conspiring with her said sonnes , incited by her example many other Princes and noblemen to doe the like , who raised diuers rebellions . And besides all the rest , VVilliam King of Scotland came in with a great Army on the North-side , and Philip Earle of Flaunders was entered with another on the South-side . At which time K. Henry seeing himself in these straites , and not well knowing what to doe , yet resolued at the length to passe from Normandy into England , and first to succour the principall parte . But being on the Sea , there arose such a tempest , as seing himself in great daunger , Erectis in caelum luminibus ( saith VValsingham ) lifting vp his eyes to heauen he desired God , that saw his intention , to be mercifull vnto him , as his meaning and purpose was to seeke the peace both of the Clergy & people of England , &c. And God ( saith our Author ) admitted presently the prayer of this our humbled King , and brought him safe to Hampton-port with all his people ; who from that day forward , giuing himself to pennaunce , vsed ( saith he ) a very thinne diet , to wit , bread and water only , and casting of all temporall cares , nor entring into any one Citty , as he went by the way , neuer ceased vntill he came to Canterbury ; where the glorious body of Thomas the martyr lay , where with abundance of teares and sighes , going bare-foote , and casting himself prostrate on the ground , he did demaund pardon and mercie ; humbly beseeching first , that the Bishops there present would absolue him , and then that euery religious man would giue him three , or fiue strokes of a discipline ( or whip ) on his bare flesh ; & then putting one his apparell againe , which in all their presence he had put of , he rose from the ground , and then gaue precious gifts to the said Martyr and his sepulcher ; and among other forty pounds by the yeare of perpetuall rent for maintenance of lights at the said Sepulcher , and so giuing himself to waching , fasting , & prayer for three dayes togeather , it is not to be doubted ( saith he ) but that the said martyr being pleased with his repentaunce and deuotion , God also ( by his intercession ) tooke away the Kings sinne . So VValsingham . 20. And presently in token heerof he saith , that the verie same day , wherin the King was most deuout in humbling ●imself and kissing the said martyrs Tombe in Canterbury , God deliuered into his hands VVilliam King of Scotland , who was taken prisoner by his Captaines : and that vpon the same day also , his rebellious sonne K. Henry the 3. hauing taken shipping to come with a great Nauye into England against him , was driuen back by tempest ; the King himself going to London was receiued with extraordinary ioy of al his people , by whose help he soone pacified and conquered all his rebells , and thence going presently ouer into Normandy with a great armie , and leading prisoner with him , the foresaid K. of Scotland , with diuers other enemies fallen into his hands , hee so terrified the King of France , and other his confederates that beseiged the Cittie of Roane , as they retired presentlie ; and his sonnes Henry , Richard , & Geffrey so humbled themselues vnto him , as they were reconciled , and receiued to grace againe ; all comming home togeather in one shipp ( saith VValsingham ) whom a little before it seemed , that the wide world could not containe . 21. And this was the effect of K. Henries deuotion at that time , which Petrus Blesen●is also that was most inward with him , doth ●estifie & recoūt at large in an epistle to his freind the Archbish. of Palermo in Sicilie , wherin hee affirmeth not onlie that K. Henry assured himself , that hee had all these good successes by intercession of the said holy martyr S. Thomas , but moreouer , that hee tooke him for his speciall Patron in all his aduersities . Illud quoq●● noueritis ( saith he ) Dominum Regem gloriosum martyrem in omnibus angustijs suis Patronum habere praecipuum . This also you must know , that my Lord the King doth hold the glorious martyr S. Thomas for his cheife Patrone in all his straites and necessities : and the same you may read in Nubergensis , that liued at the same time , though not so intrinsecall with the King as the other . And this passed at that tyme , though afterward he committing his said Q Eleanor to prison , for diuers years before his death , and continuing his loose life with other women ( as hath byn said ) God for punishment , permitted , that albeit two of his sonnes Henry and Geffrey died before him ; yet the other two remaining , Richard and Iohn , and falling from him againe , did so afflict and presse him , as they brought him to that desolate end , which before hath byn mentioned . Though some other doe ascribe the cause heerof , not so much to his loose life , as to his irreuerent dealing sometymes in Church-matters . For so two Bishops , that were his Embassadours wrote vnto him in confidence , as Petrus Blesensis doth testify , saying : Non est quod magis hostes vestros incitat ad conflictum , quam quod arbitrantur Vos Ecclesia Dei minus extitisse deuotum . There is nothing , that doth more stir vp , or animate your enemyes to fight against you , then for that they persuade themselues , that you haue sometymes shewed your self lesse deuout towards the Church of God. And thus much of K. Henry . OF THE RAIGNE OF K. RICHARD THE FIRST , The sixt King after the Conquest . §. II. 22 For that we haue byn somewhat large in the life of K. Henry the Father , we meane to be breefer ( if it may be ) in his children , who were only two that seruiued him , and raigned after him , to wit Richard , & Iohn ; for that the two other Henry , that was crowned and named by him K. Henry , and Geffrey Duke of Brittany , after their many tumultuations , conspiracies & disobediences against their said Father , died in his life tyme ; and of these two that liued , he had little comforte , as before you haue heard . 25. And yet proued this Richard no very euill King afterward , for the space of ten years that he raigned , though vnfortunate , both in warre and peace ; which men ascribe ( in great parte ) to the demerit of his owne disobedience against his said Father . For punishment wherof both his owne brother Iohn conspired often against him , and K. Philip of France hir colleage and confederate , brake his faith with him , and the Duke of Austria persidiously tooke and held him prisoner in his returne from Ierusalem , and Henry the Emperour laid him in fetters , and many other miseries followed , and fell vpon him , vntill at length he was disasterously slaine by a poisoned arrow , shot out of a Castle against him , as our histories doe testifie . 24. But as for his religion , it was all wayes truly Catholicke , & in no point different from that of all Christendome in his dayes . And particularly in that which appertaineth to our controuersy , he was most obedient & deuout to the spiritual authority of the Sea Apostolicke in all his actions : which I may proue by the authority of a whole Synod of the Archbishop of Roane , and all his Bishops writing to Pope Celestinus the third , in recomendatiō of his cause when he was Captiue , sayinge : Christianissimus Princeps Rex Angliae , illustrissimus Dominus noster , & deuotissimus Ecclesia Romanae filius , quem specialiter in suam protectionem susceperat in sua peregrinatione , &c. The most Christian Prince Richard King of England , and our most honorable Lord , and most deuout sonne of the Romaine Church , whome the said Church had specially taken into her protection in his iourney to Ierusalem , is now vniustly detained , &c. 25. But if this testimony were not , yet all his other life and actions , as hath byn said , doe sufficiently testifie the same . For first , to goe in order , and name some few of many , it is registred by Houeden that liued at that tyme , and was present perhaps at his coronation , how religiously and humbly he receiued the same , at the hands of the Archbishop and Clergy , not calling himself King ; but Duke only , vntill he was crowned . Cum autem Dux ( saith he ) ad altare veniret , &c. When the Duke came before the Altar , in presence of the Archbishops , Bishops , Clergie , and people , he first fell downe on his knees before the said Altar , where we●● laid open the holy ghospells , aud the reliques of many Saints , according to the custome , and there he sware that all the dayes of his life , he would maintaine peace , honour , & reuerence to the holy Church , and all those that were ordained by the same . He sware also to maintaine good iustice and equitie to the people , to take away euill lawes and customes , and to make good , &c. So Houeden . 26. And not many monethes after this , being called vpon , and intreated by Pope Clement the 3. to make hast in his preparations , for succouring of Ierusalem , which was now taken and held by Saladinus the great Prince of the Saracens ; the said Pope sent soone after a speciall Legat into England , named Cardinall Iohn Anagnanus , as well to hasten that iourney , and the iourney of K. Philip of France that was to goe in his compaine , as also to end certaine controuersies betweene Baldwin Archbishop of Canterbury , that was to goe with the King in his vioage , and Geffrey the Kings base brother nominated Archbishop of Yorke , & commended by the King ( but not yet admitted hitherto by the Sea Apostolike ) and other Bishops and principall persons . And when they were all met at Canterbury togeather , the King taking order and disposing many things , for the quiet and safty of his Kingdomes in his absence , which are set downe at large by the said Houeden , Nubergensis , Mathew Paris , and other authors ; he thence began his iourney in the moneth of December , and first yeare of his raigne . 27. But before this , as hath byn said , he did dispose of many things : as namely the setting at liberty of his mother Q. Eleanor , that had byn longe in prison in his Fathers dayes , restoring her to all former honours , and far greater then euer she had before , assigning to her the dowries , both of Q. Maude wife of K. Henry the first , and of Alyce wife of K. Stephen , and of the other Maude the Empresse mother of K. Henry the second . And to his brother Iohn Earle of Morton , besides all other States and Titles he had before , he gaue foure Earl-domes more , to gaine him withall and hold him content , to wit , of Cornwall , Deuonshyre , Dorcet and Somerset : but yet left to none of them the gouernment of his Realme , but to two Bishops to wit , Hugh Bishop of Durham , for the North-partes , and to VVilliam Bishop of Ely , for the whole body of the Realme , making him his Chauncellour and supreme Iudge , and praying Pope Clement for his more authority , to make him also his Legat à latere , and to take into his protection the whole Realme , and so he did : whereby appeareth what opinion K. Richard had of the Sea Apostolikes authority in his dayes . 28. But the same appeareth yet more , by the many appellations that were made in the Kings owne presence , at the forsaid meeting at Canterbury vnto the Pope himself . For first Baldwin Archbishop of Canterbury ( who , as I say , was to goe with K. Richard in his said iourney of Ierusalem ) appealed against the foresaid Geffrey , the Kings brother , nominated by the King to the Archbishoprick of Yorke : Appellauit ad Dominum Papam ( saith Houeden ) coram Rege , & vniuersis Episcopis , & Clero . He appealed to the Pope , in presence of the King , and all the Bishops and Clergy . One Hammon also Chaunter of the same Church of Yorke , receiuing letters from K. Richard , to install one Buchard in the dignity of Treasurer of the said Church , according as he was elected : Noluit mandatis Regis obedire ( saith Houeden ) sed super hoc ad Sedem Apostolicam appellauit . He would not obey the Kings commaundement in this point , but appealed in the controuersie to the Sea Apostolike : which King Richard did no wayes let or deny . And againe in the same place , the King hauing giuen the Deanry of Yorke to one Henry , brother to the Lord Marshall of England , commended the man for his installing , to the Archbishop of Yorke ; but he refusing said , that he could not doe it : Donec electio eius confirmata esset à Summo Pontifice : vntill his election were confirmed by the Bishop of Rome . Which answere the King tooke in good part , and therby well declared , what his opinion was of his owne Ecclesiasticall authority , as also of the Popes . 29. Moreouer saith the same Author : Richardus Rex Angliae , missis nuncijs suis ad Clementem Papam , obtinuit ab eo literas Patentes , &c. This Richard King of England sending his messengers to Pope Clement , obtained letters Patents of him , that whosoeuer he should send vnto any townes , lands or lordships of his , to keep , and defend the same in his absence , should be free from all oath , vow , or other obligation of going the voiage to Ierusalem : Vnde , ipse sibi inastimabilem acquisiuit pecuniam . Wherby he procured to himself an inestimable summe of money . 30. And this before the Kings departure from England ; but being entred into the iourney , and arriued in the Kingdome of Sicilie , he there marryed his new wife Berengaria , daughter to the King of Nauarre , conducted thither by sea , by Q. Eleanor his mother ; who after foure daies stay only in the porte of Messina , was 〈◊〉 by her sonne , to returne to England by land , taking Rome in he● way , to the end she might in his name , intreat the Pope to admit for Archbishop of Yorke his foresaid brother Geffrey , whome he had presented and nominated . Per illam mandauit Rex Angliae Summ● Pontisici ( saith Houeden ) & humiliter postulauit , vt ipse electionem prodicti Gaufredi confirmaret . King Richard of England did send by his said mother , to the Pope , and humbly besought him , that he would confirme the election of the foresaid Geffrey to be Archbishop of Yorke . Which labour of going to Rome , it is like that he would neuer haue put his mother vnto , nor yet haue vsed so much humility of intreatinge the Pope , if he had thought his owne Ecclesiasticall authority to haue byn sufficient , as well for inuesting him , as for his nomination and presentation . 31. And moreouer , when the said King had ended a certaine controuersie in the same porte & Citty of Messina , with Tancredra King of that Iland ; he gaue account of all by a large letter , vnto the said Pope Clement , as to his deerest Father . Beatissimo Patri Clements , Dei gratia Sanctae sedis Apostolica Summo Pontifici : Richardus eadem gratia Rex Angliae , sincerae in Domino deuotionis affectum . And then presently he beginneth his epistle thus . Iustiorem exitum facta Principum sortiuntur , cum à Sede Apostolica robur & fauorem accipiunt , & Sancta Romanae Ecclesiae colloquio diriguntur , &c. The acts of Princes doe come to best end , when they receiue strength and fauour from the Sea Apostolicke , and are directed by the conference or communication of the Church of Rome . And therefore we haue thought it conuenient to let your Holines vnderstand , what agreements haue byn made these dayes publikely , betweene the excellent Lord Tancred King of Sicilie , and vs. And then after recitall of all particularityes , he endeth thus : testibus nobisipsis , vndecimo die Nouembris apud Messanam . We our selues being witnesse of this agreement , the eleuenth day of Nouember at Messina . 32. But when K. Richard soone after , departing thence was arriued in Asia , and had begun most prosperously his warrs against the Infidels , the Deuill enuying his good successe , stirred vp first seditiō in England , by means of Iohn the Kings brother , who perceiuing diuers to enuy the Greatnes of the Bishop of Ely , left gouernour by the King , and some Bishops also to be in faction against him , began to make great stirs . And on the otherside , the same enemy of mankind castinge ielousies betweene K. Philip of France , and the said King Richard , did seperate them at last ; whervpon ensued the returne of the said King Philip , with intention to inuade King Richards Dominions , and to set vp his brother Iohn in his place , as the sequele declareth . 33. But Pope Celestinus the 3. that had succeeded in the place of Pope Clement lately deceased , vnderstanding of the former conspiracie , and faction against the Bishop of Ely in England , wrote a vehement letter against the same , to all the Archbishops , Bishops , and Clergie of England , saying among the rest . Cum dilectus in Christo filius noster Richardus , &c. wheras our deerly-beloued sōne in Christ Richard , noble King of England , when he resolued by taking vpon him the signe of the Holy crosse of Christ , to reuenge the iniury of his redeemer in the Holie land , left the tutele and care of his Kingdome , vnder the protection of the Sea Apostolicke , we that haue succeeded in that Sea , haue so much the more obligation to cōserue the State of the said Kingdome , the rights and honours of the same ; by how much greater confidence he placed in our protection : and thervpon hath exposed his person , riches , and people , to greater perils for exaltation of holy Christian religion , &c. Wherfore vnderstanding of certaine troubles , lately moued by Iohn Earle of Morton , and certaine others combined with him , against your honourable Father VVilliam Bishop of Ely , Legat of the Sea Apostolicke , and Gouernour of your Realme . Vniuersitati vestrae per Apostolica scripta mandamus , & in virtute obedientiae praecipimus , &c. We doe by these Apostolicke writings , giue commaundement to your whole community & Realme , and charge the same in the vertue of obedience , that all men surcease from like practise of conspiration , turmoyle , or faction , &c. giuen at our pallace of Lateran , the 4. day before the Nones of December , in the first yeare of our Popedome . And by this you may see what authority he tooke himself to haue ouer all England , and Bishops and Princes therof at that day . 34. The which is yet more declared , by that which soone after ensued ; for that the foresaid Earle Iohn , and other Lords and Bishops combininge themselues with him , hauinge proceeded yet further in that quarrell , & by cōmon consent of all the Realme ( as it seemed ) depriued the said Bishop of Ely of his office of Gouernour , imprisoned him , and driuen him out of England , and elected in his roome , VValter Archbishop of Roane , for gouernour of the Realme , they were no lesse carefull to send presently to excuse , & iustifie the matter vnto Pope Celestinus , then they 〈◊〉 to the King himself for his satisfaction . All which appeareth by a large letter written from Rome to the said Archbishop by his agents , that were there , who aduertized him , how euill the matter was taken by the said Pope Celestinus . Dominus Papa ( say they ) in restri depressione negotij , plurima indignanter , & cum amaritud●ne proponebat , &c. The Pope did propose very many things with indignation , and amaritude of mind to the depression of your affaire ; iterating many tymes , that he knew the great affection & confidence of the King of England towards his Chauncelour and Gouernour the Bishop of Ely , and that he had seen many letters of the said King in his commendation , but none against him ; & that at his earnest instance , the Sea Apostolike had made him also Legat à latere . And that finally , he absolued him from the sentence of excommunication , which the said Archbishop of Ro●● had laid vpon him ; and for the rest , he would expect the Kings inclination , who being soone after taken prisoner in Germany , sent presently for the said Chauncellour to come vnto him ; and made great vse of him , for he was not only his interpreter betweene the Emperour and him , and other Princes , but he sent him also into England , not as Chauncellour or Gouernour , but as Bishop of Ely , to lay the plot for his ransome . 35. And I might recount many other examples of the same iurisdiction , exercised in England by the same Pope without contradiction of any man , in the absence of the said King , though Earle Iohn the Kings brother was present , and very potent amōg them , and no great freind to the Pope , as by the former letter may be imagined ; and who finally did driue out of England the said Bishop of Ely , but yet neuer obiected , or put doubt in the Popes authority , about any Ecclesiasticall matter that there fell out . As for example vpon the yeare 1191. which was the very next after the Kings departure , Nubergensis liuinge at that time , recounteth , how Geffrey the Kings base brother , hauing byn longe beyond the seas , suing at Rome to be admitted to the Archbishopricke of Yorke , and to haue his Pall , which Pope Cleme●● would not graunt for diuers obiections , and appealles made against him , as well by Baldwyn Archbishop of Canterbury ( as you haue heard ) as also by others , and namely the Bishop of Ely that was Gouernour of the land , being much against him : yet now vpon King Richards commendation , and his owne many 〈◊〉 promises , Pope Celestinus so much fauoured him ( saith Nubergensis ) as he gaue him his pall before he was consecrated , and sent him to be consecrated by the Archbishop of Towers in France , commaunding him , vt ei , non obstante vel appellatione , vel occasione qualibet , manus imponeret , that he should , by imposition of hands , cōsecrate him , notwithstanding any appellation , or other occasion whatsoeuer to the contrary . And so he did : and he came into England , and tooke possession of the said Archbishopricke , and enioyed the same by this authority of consecration and inuestiture from Pope Celestinus , notwithstanding all the contradiction and opposition of his potent aduersaryes , as in the same Author at large is set downe . 36. And when not longe after this againe , the said Archbishop Geffrey requiring Canonicall profession of obedience to be made to him , and his Sea , accordinge to custome , at the hands of Hugh Bishop of Durham , who had purchased before of King Richard , an Earl-dome to be annexed to his said Bishopricke ; and that the said Hugh refusing to doe the same , vpō pretence of many causes , appealed therein to the Sea of Rome ; the Archbishop not admitting the same appeale , pronounced notwithstanding sentence of excommunication against him : Celestinus the Pope not only reuoked the said sentence , but exempted moreouer the said Bishop & Bishopricke , from the obedience of the said Archbishop and Archbishopricke of Yorke , as the same author relateth . So as in this he shewed his authority in England . 37. But now let vs passe to K. Richard himself , who being valiantly occupied in the warres against the Infidels and enemies of God in Asia , had many crosses fell vpon him : First , the falling out and departure of K. Philip of France from that warre , as you haue heard ; who returning into France , began to treat presently with Earle Iohn , to trouble the peace of his brothers territoryes ; and the principall point that combined these two togeather against King Richard , besides the enuy of the one , and ambition of the other , was , that both of them were afraid least Prince Arthure Earle of Brittany , sonne to Geffrey , Iohns elder brother , should succeed in the Kingdome of England , if any thing should happen to King Richard : ( and so the Bishop of Ely had giuen out , that King Richard himself had written from Sicily ) which point was much feared , as preiudiciall to them both . Whervpon they made a fast league , and began on both sides of the Sea to trouble the State ; which when K. Richard vnderstood , and that Pope Celestin●● 〈◊〉 his letters , and other diligence could not stay them , and that 〈◊〉 grew into sedition at home by partes-takinge , he was forced sorely to his greife , and to the publicke lamentation of all Christendome to leaue that warre , and to abandon the victorie , that was euen now almost in his hand , if he had stayed , as the euent also shewed ; for that soone after dyed the Saladine , by whose death , there was no doubt , but that King Richard had recouered Ierusalem . 38. But he returning for defence of his owne countrey , fel into great misery . For being taken , as hath byn said , by Duke Leopold of Austria , vpon pretence of certaine iniuries receiued from him & his people in the warres of Asia , he was deteined by him , and by the Emperour Henry the 6. more then fifteen moneths prisoner , and forced to paie in the end , aboue two hundred thousand markes for his ransome , partly in present money , and partly in pawnes and pledges left for the same ; And so after foure yeares absence , the said King returned . 39. But in this tyme of his captiuity , his chiefest comforte and refuge was in the assistance of the said Pope Celestinus , as may well appeare by the sundry letters of many , written vnto the said Pope in his behalfe ; but especially and aboue others , of the afflicted Lady and Queen his mother Eleanor , who wrote three large letters vnto him , by the pen of Petrus Blesensis Archdeacon then of London , that had byn Secretary to her husbād K. Henry the second : and she beginneth one , saying thus : Sanè non multum ab insania differt dolor : Sorrow truly doth not much differ from madnes : And then . Gentes diuulsae , populi lacerati , prouinciae desolatae in spiritu contrito & humiliato supplicant tibi , quem constituit Deus super Gentes & Regna in omni plenitudine Potestatis . These nations heer deuided in their owne bowels , ( by absence of their Prince ) this people torne and broken in themselues , these desolate prouinces doe in a contrite and humbled spirit make supplication to you , whom God hath placed ouer Nations and Kingdomes in all fullnesse of power . And then againe . Moueat te ( Summe Pontifex ) etsi non huius peccatricis infalicissimae dolor , saltem clamor pauperum , compeditorum gemitu● , interfectorum sanguis , Ecclesiarum spoliatio , & generalis denique pressura sanctorum . Be you moued ( ô high Priest ) if not with the sorrow of mee , a most vnfortunate sinner , yet with the cry of poore men , with the groanes of them that are in fetters , with the bloud of them that are heere slaine , with the spoyling of Churches therof ensuing , and with the generall oppression of all holy people . And yet further : Duo filij mihi supererant ad solatium , qui bodie ( mihi misera & damnatae ) supersunt ad supplicium . Rex Richardus tenetur in vinculis , Iohannes frater ipsius regnum Captiui depopulatur ferro & vastat incendijs . Two only children of many remained vnto me for my comforte , which now are vnto me ( most miserable and damned woman ) become a torment . King Richard is held captiue in chaines , and Iohn his brother doth spoile by sword and fire , the said captiues Kingdomes , and dominions . 40. This and much more to the same lamentable effect , wrote this afflicted mother vnto Pope Celestinus in those dayes , requesting him by Ecclesiasticall censures , to compell both the Emperour and Duke of Austria , to set her sonne the King at liberty . And to this effect hath she many vehement speaches & exhortations vnto him ; as for example . Nonne Petro Apostolo ( saith she ) & in eo vobis , à Deo , omne regnum , omnisque potestas regenda committitur ? Benedictus autem Dominus , qui talem potestatem dedit hominibus : non Rex , non Imperator , aut Dux à iugo Vestrae Iurisdictionis eximitur . Vbi est ergo Zelus Phinees ? vbi est authoritas Petri , &c. were not all Kingdomes , and was not all power and gouernment committed by God vnto Peter the Apostle , and in him to you ? Blessed be our Lord , that gaue such authority vnto men : No King , no Emperour , no Duke is exempted from the yoke of your Iurisdiction . And where is then the Zeale of Phinees ? where is the authority of Peter , &c. 41. And againe in another epistle . Illud restat , vt exeratis in malesicos ( Pater ) gladium Petri , quem ad hoc constituit Deus super gentes & regna . Christi crux antecellit Caesaris Aquilas , gladius Petri gladio Constantini , & Apostolica Sedes praeiudicat Imperatoria potestati . Vestra Potestas à Deo est , an ab hominibus ? Nonne Deus Deorum locutus est vobis in Petro Apostolo di cens , Quodcunque ligaueris super terram , erit ligatum & in caelis ; & quodcunque solueris super terram , erit solutum & in caelis ? Quare ergò tanto temporetam negligenter , immò tam crudeliter filium meum soluere defertis , aut potius non audetis ? Sed dicetis hanc potestatem vobis in animabus , non in corporibus fuisse commissam . Esto : Certè sufficit nobis , si eorum ligaueritis animas , qui filium meum ligatum in carcere tenent . Filium meum soluere robis in expedito est ; dummodo humanum timorem Dei timor euacuet . This only remaineth ( ô Father ) that you draw forth the sword of Peter against malefactors , which sword God hath appointed to be ouer nations and Kingdomes . The Crosse of Christ doth excell the Eagles that are in Cesars banners , the spirituall sword of ●●ter is of more power then was the temporall sword of Constantine the Emperour , and the Sea Apostolicke is more potent then any Imperiall power or authority . And I would aske whether your power be of God , or frō men ? Did not the God of Gods speak● to you in Peter the Apostle , sayinge : VVhatsoeuer you shall bynd vpon earth , shall be bound in heauen , and whatsoeuer you shall loose vpon earth shall be loosed in heauen ? And why then doe you so negligently , yea cruelly , delay for so longe time to loose my sonne ? or rather why dare you not to doe it ? Perhaps you will say , that this power giuen you by God ( of binding and loosing ) is for soules , and not for bodies . Let it be so . Truely it is sufficient for vs , if you would bind the soules of those , that hold my sonnes body bound in prison . And finally I know , that it lyeth in your power to loose my sonne , if the feare of God may euacuate in you the feare of man. 42. Thus wrote this afflicted Queene vnto Celestinus the Pope ; and the same wrote diuers other great personages at the same tyme , as may be seen in the said Petrus Blesensis : and among others , the foresaid Gualterus Archbishop of Roane and Gouernour of England , a man of great authority , learning and wisedome , who after many reasons concludeth his Epistle thus . Exerat ergo beati Petri gladium manus vestra ( Clementissime Pater ) quid & quantum tanto filis debeatis , exhibeatis in opere , vt experientia mediante , addiscant minores & inferiores filij , quantum à ●obis auxilium in suis necessitatibus debeant expectare . Let your hand then ( most Clement Father ) draw forth the sword of Peter , and doe you shew by workes , how much you owe vnto so greate a child , ( as is K. Richard ) so as by experienc● , your lesser and lower children may learne , how much help they may expect from you in their necessityes . So he . 43. And by this may appeare , what opinion men had in those dayes of the Popes authority : and let the Reader heer marke , as also M. Attorney , how vsuall a phrase it was at that tyme , to name two distinct swords , the one of Constantine , the other of Peter ; th● one temporall ouer bodies , the other spirituall ouer soules ; and th●● the later was the greater and higher . Which was the speach also and phrase of King Edgar before the Conquest , and of the Conquerour himself in his lawes ( if you remember ) & is now heer vsed againe , and so was euer after , vntill King Henry the 8. as by this our deduction will appeare . And only this phrase of speach , and common beleife of all our Kings and Countrey from time to time , that there were two distinct swords or powers , one temporall in the Prince , and the other spirituall in the Pope , is sufficient to ouerthrow M. Attorneys whole Booke , though nothing els were said to it besides , the purporte therof being ( as hath byn seen ) to proue , that either no such distinction of swordes & powers is to be admitted , or that both are equally in the temporall Prince , and so vsed and exercised by our auncient Kings of England . 44. But now you see the vanity ( in truth ) & absurdity of that Paradox refuted by all this heer set downe , concerning K. Richard : and many examples more might be alleadged during his raigne , after his returne againe to England , who meaning to euacuate the alienation of many thinges solde , lent , or empawned before , for his going to Ierusalem , caused himself to bee crowned againe in VVinchester ; reducing all thinges to a new order , and among others he set downe , Capitula placitorum Corona Regis . The heads or cheife braunches of pleas , that belong to the Kings Crowne , or Courts : wherein nothing at all is conteyned concerning Ecclesiasticall affaires , but only De aduocationibus Ecclesiarum , quae sunt de donatione Regis : Of the aduowsons of such Churches , as are of the Kings gift ; that is to say , wherof he had Ius Patronatus . Which is a small spirituall iurisdiction , if we consider it well , and may be in any secular man whatsoeuer , that buyldeth or foundeth a Church . And Matthaeus Parisiensis speaking of the Church of Normandy vnder K. Richard , commendeth him highly for deliuering the said Church de longo seruitutis iugo , from a long yoke of seruitude , which secular men by little and little had brought in vpon her vnder other Kings and Dukes , by often drawing Clergie-men to secular Iudges and tribunals , inuadinge their goods , restraining their liberties , breaking their priuiledges , and the like . All which the said Author saith ; Ipso glorioso Rege Richardo annuente , & omnia disponente , emendata sunt : Were amended by the consent of glorious King Richard , who disposed all things himself , to the restitution of the ancient liberties , & freedome of the said Church of Normandie . 45. It were ouer long to run ouer many other examples , which might be alleadged to this effect for proofe of King Richards true Catholicke deuotiō towards the Church ; as also of his acknowledgement and obedience to the authority of the Sea of Rome , in all Ecclesiasticall affaires , during his life and raigne . There are 4. or 5. epistles exstant in Houeden , written to diuers parties by Celestinus the Pope , which he wrote one soone after another , concerning the forenamed Geffrey Archbishop of Yorke , citing him to Rome to answere to certaine accusations , laid against him by his Chanons and others , accusing him among other things . Quod ●enationibus & aucupio totius animi studium applicabat ; That he applied his whole mind hunting and hauking . And againe ; De inhonesta vita , & invtili conuersatione : They accused him of dishonest life , and vnprofitable conuersation . For which though he were the Kings brother ; yet not making his appearance in Rome , nor lending his lawfull defence or purgation thither , he was suspended by the said Popes Bull : and the King was so far of , from taking it euill , or defending him , as he caused the lands and possessions of his Bishopricke to be seased on . Praecepit illum dessesire ( saith Houeden ) de Episcopatu suo , & de Vice-comitatu Eboraci . He commaunded him to be dispossessed of his Archbishopricke , and of the Vicount-ship of Yorke . 46. But afterward Celestinus being dead , and Innocentius the third succeeding him in the Popedome , and the said Geffrey amending his manners , as may be presumed ; Misit literas suas deprecatorias , ad Richardum Regem , &c. The said Pope Innocentius sent his letters to K. Richard of England , requesting and exhorting him , by Fatherly admonition , that he would receiue into his loue and brotherly familiarity againe , the said Archbishop at his request , and suffer him in peace to returne to his Bishopricke , for that otherwise he should be forced , to vse Ecclesiasticall Censures against the said King and his Kingdome . Vnto which petition ioyned with some commination , as you see , the King obeyed , sending diuer● Bishops vnto the said Archbishop ( whose names Houeden setteth downe . ) In spiritu humilitatis postulantes ex parte Regis , vt ipse ratas haberet donationes , quas fecerat Rex in Eboracensi Ecclesia ; & Dominus Rex redderet ei Archiepiscopatum suum cum omni integritate &c. These Bishops were to demaund in the spirit of humulity on the Kings behalfe , that the said Archbishop would ratifie , and make good all the donations or gifts , which the King had bestowed in the Church of Yorke ( during the time he had with-held his Archbishopricke ) & that there vpon the King would restore vnto him his Archbishopricke with all integrity . But the Archbishop demaunded first of these Bishops sent vnto him , whether they would vnder their hands and writings assure him , that he might doe it in conscience , but they refusing , he refused also to graunt the Kings request , and therevpon appealed againe to Rome , and went thither in person ; and the King , on his side , sent Proctors and Aduocats thither to plead for him , as Houeden at large declareth . And moreouer to bridle him the more , he besought the Pope to make Hubert then Archbishop of Canterbury Legat of the Sea Apostolike ouer all England . 47. And agayne , both this Author and Nubergensis doe declare , how the foresaid VValter Archbishop of Roane that had byn so great a friend of K. Richard euer since the beginning of his raigne , and had gone with him to Sicily , and returned againe to England , for pacifying of matters between the Bishop of Ely , that was Gouernour , the Earle Iohn ; and moreouer had also byn Gouernour of England himself , & after King Richards Captiuitie had not onlie laboured for him , as you haue heard by his letter to the Pope , but went also in person to assist him in Germanie , and remained there in pledg for him : this man ( I say ) receiuing disgust at length from the said King , for vsurping vpon certaine lands , and liberties of his in Normandy , he brake with him , appealed to the Pope , went to Rome against him ; and the King was forced to send Embassadours to plead for himself there against the other , who pleaded so well ( saith Nubergensis ) alleadging the Kings necessitie for doing the same , as the Pope tooke the Kings parte , and tolde the Bishop openlie in publike Consistorie , that he ought to beare with the King in such a necessitie of warre , which being once past , matters might easilie be remedied . And thus much for the Popes authoritie acknowledged and practised , during the raigne of this King Richard the first , out of which M. Attorney found no probable instance at all , to be alleadged to the contrarie , and therfore made not so much as mention of any . OF THE RAIGNE OF KING IOHN , VVho was the seauenth King after the Conquest . §. III. 48. Of this King , being the last sonne of K. Henry the second , we haue heard much before , vnder the name of Earle of Mor●●● , which may declare vnto vs , the quality of his nature and condition ; to wit , mutable and inconstant , but yet vehement for the while , in whatsoeuer he tooke in hand ; indiscreet also , rash , and without feare to offend either God or man , when he was in his passion o● rage . This appeareth well by his many most vnnaturall and treasonable actions , against his kind and louing Father whilest he liued , wherby he shortened his said Fathers life , as before hath byn related . And the same appeareth yet more in a certaine manner , by his like attempts against his owne brother , both when , and after he was in captiuity ; which brother notwithstanding had so greatly aduaunced him , and giuen him so many rich States in England , as he seemed to haue made him a Tetrarch with him ( say our English authors ) that is to say , to haue giuen him the fourth parte of his Kingdome , which notwithstanding was not sufficient to make him faithfull vnto him . 49. This man then succeeding his brother Richard , with whom he was beyond the seas when he died , laid hands presently on the Treasure and fortresses of his said brother , and by the help of two Archbishops especially , to wit VValter of Roane in Normandy , and Hubert of Canterbury in England , he drew the people and nobility to fauour him , and was crowned first , Duke of Normandy by the one , and then King of England by the other , when he was 34. yeares old , and held out in the said gouernmēt with great variety of state and fortune for 18. yeares old togeather . The first six with contentment & good liking of most men , the second six in continuall turmoile , vexation , and with mislike of all ; and the thi●d six did participate of them both , to wit , good and euill , though more of the euill , especially the later parte therof , when his nobility and people almost wholy forsakinge him , did call in , and crowne in his place Lewes the Dolphin & Prince of France , pretended to be next heire by his wife the Lady Blanche , daughter to the said K. Iohns sister , Queene of Castile , which brought K. Iohn to those straites , as he died with much affliction of mind , as after you shall heare . 50. To say then somewhat of ech of these three distinctions of tyme , noting some points out of them all that appertaine to this our controuersie with M. Attorney : you haue heard in the end of K. Richards life , how VValter Archbishop of Roane appealed to Pope Innocentius against the said King , for seasing vpon certaine lands of his , and namely the Towne of Deepe , which Innocentius commaunding to be restored , K. Iohn obayed , and made composition with the said Archbishop vpon the yeare of Christ 1200. which was the second yeare of his raigne , as Houeden reporteth ; restoring him Villam de Depa cum pertinentijs suis , The Towne of Deepe with the appurtenances : and diuers other things , which the said author setteth downe , shewing therby the obedience of K. Iohn to the Popes ordination . 51. Moreouer there falling out a great controuersie between Geffrey Arcbishop of Yorke , K. Iohns brother , and the Deane and Chapter of the said Church , and both parties appealing to Rome , Pope Innocentius appointed the Bishop of Salisbury , and Abbot of Tewxbury to call them before them in Church of VVestminster , and determine the matter , & so they did , & made them freinds ; the King not intermedling in any part therof , though the matter touched his brother , and concerned his owne Ecclesiasticall supremacy , if he had persuaded himself , that he had had any . And the verie same yeare the Bishop of Ely , and the Abbot of S. Edmunds-bury were appointed Iudges by the said Pope , in a great cause between the Archbishop , and monks of Canterbury , which they determined publikelie , Vt Iudices à Domino Papa constituti : ( saith Houeden ) as iudges appointed from the Pope , without any dependance of the King at all , though their cheife controuersie was about the priuiledges and proprieties of lands , lordships , and officers of theirs , to wit of the said Archbishop and Monkes . 52. And wheras the foresaid Hubert Archbishop of Canterbury with the rest of the Bishops , summoned a generall Synod in England for ordaining many thinges , according to the neede or necessitie of the English Church ; and the King by euill 〈◊〉 saile of some , went about to let the said Synod , forbidding the same by his supreame Iusticer ( which was the highest power at that time vnder the King ) the said Archbishop admitted not the prohibition : Archiepiscopus ( saith Houeden ) generale celebrauit Concilium Londonys apud VVestmonasterium , cōtra prohibitionem Gaufredi filij Petri Comitis de Essexia , tunc temporis Summi Iusticiarij Anglia . The Archbishop did celebrate a general Councell at VVestminster in London , against the prohibition of Geffrey the sonne of Peter Earle of Essex , which at that time , had the office of the cheife Iusticer of England . So as we see , that they followed not the Kings inclination in this spirituall affaire , but held their Councell , and finished the same , notwithstanding the former secular prohibition of the supreme Iusticer . And Houeden that was then liuing , setteth downe all the Canons and Ordinances at large of the said Councell , which had these words in the end of euery one seuerally repeated : Saluo in omnibus Sacrosanctae Romanae Ecclesiae honore & priuilegio : sauing in all points , the honour and priuiledge of the holy Church of Rome : Which was the sooner added for that the general Councell of Lateran in Rome , was shortely after to ensue , which might adde , take away , or alter whatsoeuer should seeme best to the Decrees of this Nationall Councell . 53. Neither is there read any thing to haue byn done or said against this by the King , though it is like that some of his Counsell did egge him against it , as may appeare by the said prohibition of his Iusticer before mentioned . Nay , not only was K. Iohn obedient to the Church & her authority at this time ; but otherwise also shewed himself very deuout & pious by many wayes : to which purpose among other things , it is recorded by this author , that when S. Hugh Bishop of Lincolne , who was held for a great Saint all dayes of his life , lay on his death-bed at London , King Iohn went vnto him to visit him with great deuotion , and confirmed his testament , which he had made of his goods in fauour of the poore , and promised moreouer to God in his presence , that during his life , he would alwayes confirme and ratifie the testaments of English Bishops , and Prelates made to that effect . 54. And the same author recounteth furthermore , that n●● longe after this , the King being at Lincolne , twelue Abbots of the Order named Cistercienses , comming vnto him , fell downe at his 〈…〉 of his 〈…〉 ence , all their cattle 〈◊〉 in the same 〈…〉 whom the King said , that they should rise vp ; 〈…〉 ( saith our author ) diuina inspi 〈…〉 , cecidit 〈…〉 omiam postulant , &c. And then the King himself , by the inspiration of Gods holy 〈◊〉 , fell downe vpon 〈◊〉 on the ground before their feete making them pardon , for the iniury done to them by his officers . And from that day forvvard he graunted them , that all their 〈◊〉 should feed freely in his forrest : And moreouer he willed them to seeke out a fit place in the Kingdome , where he might buyld them a monastery for his deuotion , and so he did : founding both that and 〈◊〉 others , as the monasteryes of Farendon , ●●●●ayles , 〈◊〉 , and VV●●x-hall● so as if he had continued in the course of piety and moderation in life , he had byn a notable King towards which he had many good partes . 55. But about the 7. or 8. yeare of his raigne , he began greatly to change his cōditions to the worser part● , which some ascribe 〈◊〉 to the death of Queene Eleanor his mother , vpon the sixth yeare of his raigne , to whom he bare respect as long as she liued , and her death was thought to be hastened , by the affliction she tooke of K. Iohns cruelty towards Arthure Earle of Brittany her Nephew , who being a goodly young Prince of 17. yeares old , was made away in the Castle of Roane , in the yeare 1203. by poison , as some men thinke ; but as the King of France maintained before Pope Innocentius , he was slaine by K. Iohns owne hands , and his younger sister carried prisoner into England , & kept in Bristo● Castle , where she pined away ; though both these pretended to be neerer the Crowne of England , then K. Iohn himself , for that they were the children , of his elder Brother Geffrey , by marriage Earle of Brittany . 56. From this beginning then of domesticall bloud , K. Iohn fell into his other rages of dis●re●●●● life , and namely against the Church and Church-men 〈◊〉 , wherof this particular occassion fell ou●● that the foresaid 〈◊〉 Archbishop of Canterbury being dead , vpon the you●● 〈…〉 the King desiring to prefer to that 〈◊〉 one Iohn Gray Bishop of 〈◊〉 whom he great●●● 〈…〉 principall monkes of the 〈…〉 election appertained , to 〈…〉 for that 〈…〉 Canterbury , to further that election by his owne presence . And the monkes 〈…〉 cretly , they had chosen another before , whose name was 〈◊〉 Sub-prior of the house ; and with the same secresie had 〈…〉 away towards Rome for his confirmation , with oath 〈◊〉 should not disclose himself vntill he came thither : yet 〈◊〉 ly vpon offence taken with him , for discouering himself 〈…〉 election in Flaunders , and partly vpon the instance and 〈…〉 the King present , they chose the said Bishop of Norwich 〈◊〉 him his letters of election in like manner , with which the King presently sent him away to Rome , adioyning speciall messengers of his owne , to commend him to Pope Innocentius , by all me●●es possible for his admittance . 57. But the Pope seeing two elections made by the monk●●● 〈◊〉 two seuerall men , and that the Couent was deuided vpon the matter ; he persuaded them for concordes sake , to choose a 〈◊〉 and to leaue the former two , and so at last they did , and tooke● certaine English Cardinall then in Rome , named Stephen Long●●● a man of great learning , and most commendable life , but not knowne or liked by the King , both for that he had byn brought vp in the vniuersityes of France , and not of England ; and for that the King could not brooke , that the election which he had ●●●cured , with so great diligence of the Bishop of Norwich , should be reiected ; whervpon he fell into so great distemper of passion , as was lamentable . For first , hauing made proclamation , that the said Cardinall elected Archbishop , and confirmed by the Pope , and sent into France , should not come into England , 〈◊〉 receiued by any man vnder paine of death ; he sent his officers to Cāterbury , to sease both on the lāds of the Archbishopricke , ●● also of the monkes , and to driue them out of the Realme , with all the shame and vexation that might be ; and so they did . And the said expulsed monkes , were forced to fly ouer the sea to 〈◊〉 and liued for the time in the monastery of S. Berlin in that Ci●●● and the King commaunded to be put into that Couent 〈◊〉 religious men of the order of S. Angustine : and more then this 〈◊〉 to that exasperation against all Clergy-men , as he seased 〈◊〉 most parte of their goods throughout all England . And 〈◊〉 Pope Innocentius wrote diuers letters to pacifie him , 〈…〉 angerly to him againe . Affirmae●s ( saith our 〈…〉 electione simul & promotione N●rvicensis Episcopi , 〈…〉 reuocari . Affirming that he could not be 〈…〉 〈◊〉 and promotion of the Bishop of Norwich , whome he vnderstand to be profitable vnto him . Quod pro libertatibus Corona sua ●●abit 〈◊〉 fuerit , vsque ad mortem . That he would stand ( if need should be ) for the libertyes of his Crowne , euen vnto death . Et si de prae 〈◊〉 fuerit exa●ditus , omnibus Roma●● petentibus maris semitas angu 〈◊〉 . That if he may not be heard in the premisses , he threatned to ●●●iten the passage of sea to all them , that would goe to 〈◊〉 . So he . 58. In all which we see , notwithstanding his great displeasure taken , he doth not deny the Popes authority spirituall , nor ascri 〈◊〉 the Supremacy therof vnto himself ; but only standeth vpon the libertyes of his Crowne , which was , as there he signifieth , that the Archbishop of Canterbury , should not be chosen without his consent or li●●ing , though the election therof he tooke not to himself , but left it free to the said monkes , to whome from the very beginning of Christianity in England , the said election appertained . And truly , many godly and wise men at that time did wi●h , that Pope Innocentius had not stood so hard with K. Iohn in 〈◊〉 point as this was , for contending him with a person gratefull vnto him in that Archbishopricke : For from this disgust proceeded all the disorders and miseries , that afterward ensued , as namely the Kings raging against all the Clergie , the particulars wherof are strange and lamentable ; the interdict of the whole Realme that lasted for fiue or six years , without celebrating of deuine seruice in the Churches ; and finally the excommunication of the King himself , and other infinite troubles therof ensuring : the said King so raging on the otherside for diuers years togeather , as he seemeth not to be well himselfe , specially after he saw his Nephew Otho to be depriued also of the Imperiall Crowne by the said Innocentius . 59. Many strange acts are recounted of K. Iohn in this time , as for example , that he sent from time to time , to all noble men and gentlemen , whom he any wayes suspected to be offended with him , commaunding them to giue him for pledges , their sonnes or daughters , or next of l●yn ? And for that the wife of one VVil●●●● Erause Bar●● , cast out a word that she doubted ; least her children might be vsed by Duke Geffreys children were , to wit 〈…〉 , his 〈◊〉 the King sent to apprehend them all , and they 〈…〉 , he 〈◊〉 them so hardly , as he tooke 〈…〉 , and caused them to be starued to death in VVindes●r castle . And the same author of ●●●●ris , who liued at that time writeth the Kings fury to h● 〈◊〉 great , & to commit such horrible acts of cruelty : vt 〈…〉 extuteret Tyrannorum . That it would make euen Tyrants to 〈◊〉 & he addeth further : Muk●rum nobiliam vxores & s●ti● appr●●●●● 〈◊〉 did oppresse and vse violence not only to the lands , good● , 〈◊〉 honours of noble men ; but to their wiues and daughter 〈◊〉 . He telleth further , that being one day at Nottingham , and 〈…〉 that the Welch-men began to styr , he cōmaunded to be brought forth 28. faire young children , which he had for pledges of the cheifest nobility of that nation , and all to be hanged togeather vpon one gallowes in the yeare 1212. 60. He caused in like manner ; all the Iewes through 〈◊〉 glaud , both men , women , and children , to be taken and ●●●●●ted , to know where there money vvas , vvho commonly 〈…〉 the violence of the said tortures , gaue him all that they had , and more too . And when in Bristow , they had tortured one by 〈◊〉 sortes of torture ; the King gaue this sentence vpon him , that e●ery day he should haue one of his teeth pulled out , with the 〈◊〉 test despite and torment that might be , vntill he had paid 〈◊〉 ten thousand markes of money ; and when the Iew had 〈◊〉 seauen teeth to be so pulled out in seauen sundry dayes ; 〈◊〉 to auoyd the torment of the eight tooth , bound himself to pay the ten thousand markes . 61. The same author relateth in like manner , that the said King meeting one day a company of men , which were the 〈◊〉 officers , that led bound a murderer towards prison , that had robbed and slaine a Priest vpon the high way , said vnto them , It is no matter , he hath killed an enemy of mine , let him go●●●● ; and so they did . And at another time being at Oxford , and ●●●ring that a certaine Clarke by meere chaunce , had 〈◊〉 woman to death and thervpon fled , and the Iustice hauing 〈◊〉 three other Clarkes whom they found dwelling in the 〈◊〉 house , though vtterly guyltlesse of the fa●● , the King com●●●●ded them all three to be hanged . And mo●●ouer when the ●●●●dome was put vnder interdict : Rex quasi in f●riam v●●sus ( saith 〈◊〉 author ) in verba blasphemia pr●●upit , iura●per 〈…〉 & 〈◊〉 King being turned as it were into fury , did 〈…〉 blasphemous words , swearing by the teeth of God● 〈…〉 ●●●soeuer he should find any Romanes in any of his land● he 〈◊〉 〈…〉 to Rome , with their eyes pulled out , and nosthrels 〈…〉 He spake also words as though he beleiued not the resurrection of the next life . So 〈◊〉 our Author . 62. But aboue all fury and wickednes , was that resolution which he tooke soone after , to wit , vpon the yeare 1213. when he sent Syr Thomas H●●thington , and , Syr Raph Nicholson Knights and Syr R●●●rt of London Priest , for his , Embassadours to the great Ma●●●●●● , King of Africke , Morocco , and Spaine , named Miramumilinus , offering to be of his religion , and to make his Kingdome tributary vnto him , and to be his vassall & hold it of him , if he would 〈◊〉 with an army by sea to assist him . But when the said Ma●●●●●tan great Prince , being a very wise man , informing himself of the particular● of his person & state , showed contempt therof , 〈◊〉 also of his offer , ( as our Author , that spake with one of the Ambassadours setteth downe at large ) K. Iohn tooke another resolution , and passed to the quite contrary extreame , resoluing not only to obey the Pope in spirituall iurisdiction , but in temporall also , and to make his Kingdome tributary , and feudatory to the Sea of Rome , by payment of a thousand markes euery yeare ther vnto ; which he bound himself and his heirs to doe , vnder a 〈◊〉 large Charter , sealed with the great seale of England in gold , sending the same to Rome to Pope Innocentius , vpō the yeare 1214. 63. And by this , and other such tokens of his heartie conuersion and sorrow for thinges past , he so gained the said Pope , that suruiued him , as he had him his most earnest defendour , all daies of his life after , both aginst the King of France , & his sonne Prince L●wes , and the Barons of England , that made warre against him . All whom , he first cōmaunded to surcease their said warrs and emnities against the said K. Iohn , and then for that they obaied not , he threatned and ●enounced excommunication against them , and besides this he sent his Legat named VVaell● to be with K. Iohn , and assist him in person in all his needs and necessities which was no small help and comforte vnto him in those distresses . And finall in after his death he was a principall cause why his young sonne Henrie the ● . was admitted for King , notwithstanding the Barons firme resolution , promise , and oath to the contrarie , and that Prince Lawes was forsaken , and forced to 〈◊〉 of England the said Lega● being made generall Gouernour both of the King and Kingdome for that present , togeather with the Earle of 〈◊〉 Lord Marshall of the land . 64. And as for the said Barons , that so resolutely stoods 〈◊〉 K. Iohn and his succession , their cause was about the priuiledged and laws of the Realme , as well concerning the Glergie , as lay men , which were the same priuiledges , as they affirmed , that were graunted and set downe in King Edwards daies the Confessor , confirmed by the Conquerour , allowed & published againe by K. Henry the first , and not disallowed by this mans Father K. Henry the 2. in witnes wherof , they produced a Charter of the said K. Henry the first . All which liberties , laws , and ordinances K. Iohn promising them at his first recōciliation , to giue gr●in● and ratifie , was vrged afterward by them to publish the same ●● writing , vnder the great seale of England , as he did at Oxford in the presence of al his nobility , in the 17. yeare of the said King● raigne , which was the next before his death , syaing in the 〈◊〉 writing . Ex mera & spontanea a voluntate nostra concessimu , & Char●a●●stra cōfirmauimus , & eam obtinuimus à Domino Papa Innocencia confirm●n ; quā & nos obseruabimus , & ab haredibus nostris in perpetuū bona fide 〈◊〉 obseruari . We haue graunted out of our owne meere & free good will , & haue confirmed the same by our Charter , and haue contained of Pope Innocentius , that he confirme the same also with his assent ; which Charter both we shall obserue our selues , and will haue to bee obserued faithfullie by our heirs for euen behold , that K. Iohn doth not onlie confirme these liberties himself , but procured the same to be confirmed also by Pope Innocentius for more stabilitie . And the beginning of the said liberties it thus set downe ; Quod Anglicana Ecclesia libera sit , & habeat iuras●● integra , suas & libertates illasas , & maximè libertatem electionum , q●● maximae & magis necessaria reputatur Ecclesia Anglicunae . That the English Church be free , and haue all her rights whole , and all h●● liberties inuiolate , and especiallie her liberties of elections ( 〈◊〉 choosing her Prelates ) which is held to bee the greatest and most necessarie to the English Church . And then follow the oth●● liberties of Barons , noble-men , and the common people . 65. And for that it was vnderstood , that , notwithstan●●●● these two graunts and confirmations of these laws and priuile●ges , K. Iohn by the counsaile of certaine strangers , that wee●●bout him of his Countreyes in France , was perswaded to 〈◊〉 the same againe , and to informe the Pope wrong full●e 〈◊〉 intentions of the said Barons , as though they meane not so 〈◊〉 the conseruation of these priuiledges indeed , a●●●so●● 〈◊〉 Kingdome to the King of F●●nce , and the Pope inclining to be●●u●e him the said Barons were so much exasperated therby , as they made the vow before mentioned , neuer to obey him , or his anymore . And thervpon calling ouer the said Prince Lewes of France , gaue him London and all the South-parts of England ; and would haue gained him the rest in like manner , if the Popes resistanes had not byn so great , and K. Iohn had not died at that very instant , in the heat of all the warre : not poisoned by a monke ( as foolish Iohn Fox doth affirme , and set forth in many printed and painted pageants of his booke ) but vpon greife of mind , trauaile and disorder of diet , as all auncient authors by vniforme consent doe agree . And Iohn Stow citeth foure that liued in K. Iohns dayes , to wit ? Mathew Paris , Roger VVyndouer , Raph Niger , and Raph Gogshall , in their histories of that tyme. 66. Wherfore to conclude this Chapter of K. Henry the second , and of his two sonnes , wee see how firme they were all three in this beleife and acknowledgement of the Popes spirituall authority ouer all the world ; and no lesse ouer England in those dayes ; and how fully the same was in practise among them . And that albeit in some cases & causes , wherin they receiued some distast , they strugled sometimes about the particular execution therof , indeauoring to mak some restraint , especially when it seemed to strech indirectly also to temporall affaires ; yet did they neuer so much as once deny the said Ecclesiasticall supremacy to be in the Sea of Rome , and much lesse did euer ascribe it to themselues : which so cleerly ouerthroweth M. Attorneys position , as I maruaile what he will say to these and like demonstrations . 67. And for that his often repeated ground is , that Queen Elizabeth had her supreame authority in cases Ecclesiasticall , according to the auncient common lawes of England : hitherto he graunteth that there was no Statute-lawes at all by Parlament , vntill the ensuing King K. Henry the third . And for other lawes , we see heere what they were by the testimony of the Bishops & Barons of England , vnder the Charters both of 〈◊〉 K. Henry the first , and other Kings vpward vnto K. Edward the Confessor , to wit all in fauour of the Church , her liberties , ●●nquises , and priuiledges ; which liberties ( as other where I have noted , and must often heerafter doe the same ) doe infer our conclusion of Ecclesiasticall and spirituall iurisdiction , subordinate to the Sea of Rome , and wholy distinct from temporall power , and doe ouerthrow M. Attorneys assertion for the said spirituall 〈…〉 those liberties were ( as they were ) that 〈…〉 should haue iurisdiction in 〈…〉 ctions , choise of Prelates , of the 〈…〉 liberties are mentioned , cited ; allowed● 〈…〉 by any King ( as you shall see they were by 〈…〉 them , vnto K. Henry the 8. ) so often receiue●● 〈…〉 tion , and his whole new books , an open out 〈…〉 field ; And thus much of K. Iohn . OF KING HENRY THE THIRD That vvas the eight King after the Conquest●●● And the first that left Statutes vvritten : And vvha● instances and arguments M. Attorney alleadgeth out of him for his purpose . CHAP. X. HITHERTO haue we passed ouer six hundred 〈◊〉 since our first English king rece●ued and therby put themselues vnder the of 〈…〉 Bishops depending therof , for 〈◊〉 of their 〈◊〉 Which Spirituall 〈…〉 haue byn euer beleeued , 〈…〉 both Kings , and Subiect from the 〈…〉 their lawes , and continued by su 〈…〉 . Which as it hath byn declared 〈…〉 proofes , & demonstrations , so 〈…〉 ted many other for breuityes sake ; the 〈…〉 tion being so apparant , as there vvas 〈…〉 co●firme the same ; wheras on the contrary side M. Attorney sheweth himself so poore , weake , needy , & naked in his proofes , as he hath alleadged only hitherto but foure instances or examples out of all these six hundred years , that may seem somewhat to fauour him , though indeed they doe nothing at all , as in their places hath byn declared . But now from this King downward we shall haue somewhat more store laid togeather by him out of peeces or raggs of Statutes , though as little effectuall to proue his purpose , as the other before recited and refuted . 2. To begin then with young K. Henry , who was but entred into the tenth yeare of his age , when the scepter was deliuered vnto him , and raigned somewhat more then 56. years . He was crowned at Glocester after the death of his Father , by one parte of the Realme , that followed him , and this especially , as hath byn said , through the presence & authority of the forsaid VVallo Pope Innocentius his Legat , who earnestly persuaded and inuited all sortes of people , to follow and obey this young King , and to forsake Prince Lewes of France , that had London and the South-partes of England deliuered vnto him . And finally denounced excommunication vpon all those that resisted this K. Henry , & therby drew at length all the Lords and Barons of England in effect , to returne vnto him ; and was cheife Gouernour , both of the said Kings person and Realme for a time , togeather with some of the English nobility , as before hath byn declared . 3. Neither shall it be needfull heere to set downe the particulars of his said Coronation , with the ordinary oath , which all Kings tooke humbly vpon their knees , before the high Altar , and vpon the holy Euangelists , to maintaine the liberties of the Church , and to doe iustice to all sortes of men ; which for me we hauing set downe in the life of K. Iohn this mans Father , & some other Kings before , may serue for an ●xample of all the rest . Onlie there is to be noted , as particular in this mans coronation , that presentlie after his said oath , he added this clause , as Matthew Paris setteth it downe : Deinde fecit homagium Sancta Romanae Ecclesiae , Innocentio Papae , &c. Then he did homage to the holie Roman Church , and to Innocentius the Pope therof , for his Kingdomes of England and Ireland , & sware that he would faithfullie paie euerie yeare those thousand markes of tribute , which his Father K. Iohn had giuen vnto the said Church , &c. Which is the first solemne homage that we read to haue been made by any King for temporall obedience vnto the Church of Rome in their coronation . For albeit K. Henrie the 2. in his sorrowfull epistle before mentioned to Pope Alexander the 3. when he was in his greatest affliction , wrote , as Petrus Blesensis setteth it downe , who was his secretarie : Vestrae Iurisdictionis est Regnum Augliae , & quantem ad seudatorij iuris obligationem , vobis duntaxat obnoxius teneor & astringor . The Kingdome of England is of your iurisdiction , and to you onlie am I bound as subiect , for so much as appertaineth to the obligation of feudatorie right : yet is this by most men vnderstood , to be meant by that King , either in respect of that ancient voluntarie tribute before mentioned of Peter-pence , or els of some particular agreement made between the said Pope Alexander and him , vpon the controuersie about the death of S. Thomas of Canterbury . 4. But we read no such thing continued by his sonnes after him , vntill K. Iohn vpon the occasions before specified , made this new couenant , as hath byn declared . Which yet afterward vpon the yeare of Christ 1245. and 29. of this Kings raigne , when a Generall Councell was gathered by Pope Innocentius the 4. at Li●● in France , VValsingham writeth that foure noble men , togeather with the Kings aduocate or attorney VVilliam Powycke , were sent by the King & common cōsent of the Realme to the said Councell and Pope , to contradict the said ordination and concession of K. Iohn , as a thing , that he could not doe without the consent of his whole Realme , for many reasons which they alleadged . And so we se , that in this very contradiction , what respect they bare , ●oth to that Councell , and head therof Innocentius the 4. to whose iudgmēt they were content to remit the matter . And the Popes answere was ( saith VValsingham ) Remindigere m●r●sa deliberatione , that the thing required a long deliberation : and so left the matter in suspence for that time . 5. But to returne to this yonge King againe , who being first , as hath byn said , vnder the Gouernment of the Popes Legat , & the Earle of Pen-broke , high Marshall of England , and after his death , which was vpon the 4. yeare of the said Kings raigne , & the Legats departure , he was wholy vnder the gouernment of Peter Bishop of VVinchester , vntill the yeare of Christ 12●3 . and y. of his raigne ; at what tyme being 17. yeares old , and feeling in himself a great desire to gouerne ( as young Princes are wont to doe ) thought to obtaine the same by the Popes authority , and so sent priuie messengers to Rome , to Pope Honorius the 3. ( saith Mathew Paris ) and requested at his hands , for many reasons , that he might be declared able to gouerne of himself , togeather with his counsell , and to receiue into his hands , all those castles & lands which diuers of his Barons did hold in his name , from the tyme of his Fathers death . Which thing was graunted him , and the Popes Bull sent to the Archbishops , Bishops & Barons about the same , with authority and commaundement , to compell them by Censures to doe the same , if any should refuse . 6. And two yeares after this againe , when he was 19. yeares old , he calling a Parlament , did decree and publish the famous great Charter called Magna Chaerta , for the priuiledges of the Church , as also the Charter of Forrests , for the nobility and common people : and many other things did happen in this time of his youth and non-age , which doe euidently declare his dutifull respect vnto Ecclesiasticall power , and especially to that of the Sea Apostolike , not assuming to himself any peece or parcell therof . And this might we easily declare by many examples , wherin he proceeded as he was taught , both by the presidence of his auncestors , and by the common induction of religion , and practice of all Christian Princes in those dayes ; and this as well after he came to full age , as before , and so continued vnto his dying day . 7. And for that this mans raigne was large , and of many years , as hath byn said ; and if I should stand vpon particular proofes , and examples of his acknowledgement of the supreme authority of the Sea of Rome , and practice therof , in all occasions , it would be ouerlong and tedious : & therfore it shall be sufficient for the indifferent Reader , to consider these points following . 8. First , that we hauing proued the said acknowledgement in all former Kings ; it is not like that this deflected , or went aside from their stepps ; or if he had done , it would ( at least ) haue byn noted , wherin , and in what points , and some records remaine therof , as there doe of other points , which were any way singular in him . Secondly we finde this King , much commended for pious deuotion by ancient writers , and namely by Thomas VValsingham , who in the beginning of K. Edward the first his life , giueth a breife note of this King Henries life and death , saying first of his sicknes and death , that being at the Abbey of S. Edmunds-burie , and taken with a greiuous sicknes , there came vnto him diuers Bishops , Barons , and noble men to assist him and be present at his death ; at what time he humblie confessed his sinnes ( saith he ) was absolued by a Prelate ; and then deuoutlie receauing the bodie of our Sauiour , asked all forgiuenes , and forgaue all ; had extreme vnction ; and so humbly imbracing the crosse , gaue vp his spirit to almightie God : adding further of his deuotion in his life ; that euerie day he was accustomed to heare three masses sung ; and more priuatelie besides , and that when the Priest did lift vp the hoast consecrated , he would goe himself and holde the Priests arme , and after kisse his hand , and so returne to his owne place againe . 9. Hee telleth also of his familiaritie with S. Lewes K. of France , who raigning at the same time ( though some few years yonger then K. Henry ) conferred oftentimes with him about matters of deuotion ; and once telling him , that he was delighted more to heare often preaching , then manie masses , K. Henry answered , that he was more delighted , to see his friend , than to heare another man talke of him , though neuer so eloquentlie . 10. This then being so , and K. Henry both liuing and dying so Catholicklie , as both this man , and all Authors doe write of him ; there can be no doubt , but that he agreed fullie in iudgment and sense , with all his predecessours , as well in this point of the Popes Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction , as in all others . And for his obedience to the Sea of Rome , it was so notorious , as diuers of his owne people at that time , did thinke it to haue excesse : For that it was not only in spirituall matters , but in temporall affaires of his Kingdome also ; Nihil enim ( saith Matthew Paris ) nisi ex consensu Papae , vel illius Legati facere voluit . Hee would doe nothing ( especiallie in his later years ) but either by the consent of the Pope or his Legat. And further in another place . Ipso quoque tempus Rex , secus quàm deceret aut expediret , se , suumque Regnum sub paena exhareditationis ( quod tamen facere nec potuit nec debuit ) Domino Papae obliga●it . At that very time also the King , otherwise then was decent or expedient , did oblige himself and his Kingdome ( which yet he could not , nor ought to doe ) vnto Pope Innocentius the fourth vnder paine of disinheritage , &c. So he . 11. And many times elswere is this complaint renewed ; and yet on the otherside , we may vnderstand by the same Mathew Paris ( who so much misliketh this ouer much subiection , as he calleth it , to the Sea of Rome ) that diuers great commodityes ensued often therby , both to him and the Realme . To the Realme , for that the Popes wrote heerby more confidently and effectually vnto him , for amending certaine errors of his , then otherwise perhaps they would or could ; yea threatned him also with excommunication , when need required : Wherof the said Paris writeth thus in one place . In those daies the Popes anger began to be heate against the K. of England , for that he kept not his promises , so oftentimes made to amend his accustomed excesses , and therefore at the instance of Lautence Bishop of Ely , and many other , that earnestly vrged him , he threatned after so many exhortations made vnto him without fruite , to excommunicate him , and interdict his Kindome , &c. 12. But yet for all this , when after his Barons did rise against him , and held him diuers years in warre , Pope Vrban the 4. ( saith Mathew Paris ) sent his Legat , Cardinal Sabinian , as far as Bellen in France to pronounce there , and set vp the sentence of excommunication against the said Barons , who being in armes , permitted him not to enter the portes of England ; but yet not long after by the said Vrban his meanes , and Pope Clement the 4. that succeeded him , peace followed againe in the said Realme , after many years of warre & ciuill commotion , with great variety of euents succeeding on both sides . For that sometymes the King himself , with his brother Richard surnamed King of the Romanes , and Edward the Prince , were taken by the Barons ; and sometymes the Barons had the worse , and Simon Momfort Earle of Licester their cheife head and Captaine , was slaine in the field ; and many miseryes , distresses , and calamityes ensued on both parts , as are accustomed in warlyke affaires ; but especially of Kingdomes , which haue their waues and turmoiles , according as the winds of great mens humours and passions doe swell , stirr vp , or calme the same . But in all this time no question was of Catholike religion in England nor any doubt at all of the distinction and subordination , between temporall & spirituall power and gouernment ; but that the one was acknowledged in the King , as cheife head of the Common-wealth , and the other in the Bishops , as subordinate to the Sea Apostolike . 13. And if we consider the cheife , and most euident points , wherin this acknowledgement is seen , and to be obserued , they are these in effect . First and principally for all points of saith and beleife ; which points were not receiued in England , nor other wise , then they came authorized and allowed by the said Sea Apostolike . And secondly for matters of manners in like form , if any thing were decreed or ordained by the said Sea , as to be obserued generally throughout all Christendome , England presently admitted the same ; though in other matters , which were either particular , nationall , or seuerall to euery Common-wealth , England followed that which was most conuenient for her state , peace and quietnes . 14. And as for Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction and libertyes of the Church , we se by the said Magna Charta , decreed and confirmed by this King ( which is the very same in effect , that his Father K. Iohn , out of the Charter of K. Henry the first , graunted vpon the 16. yeare of his raigne ) and confirmed againe , and published by K. Edward his sonne , and all his Catholike Successours ; that it was wholy left vnto Clergy men , and to the Sea Apostolike , and not taken nor vsed by the Kings : as namely in all matters of Spirituall dispensations , elections , institutions , admissions , confirmation● of Prelates , and the like ; all gathering of Synods , making of Ecclesiasticall decrees , excommunications , absolutions , indulgences , iudging and determining of Church-causes ; wherof M. Attorney , as before you haue seen , setteth downe a longe catalogue of such causes , as cannot be iudged by the temporal law , but must necessarily be remitted to spirituall Courts : all these things ( I say ) matters and affaires , were left , as fully and wholy in the hands of the Bishops and English-Clergy , with their subordination to their head the Pope , by this K. Henry , as by any of his predecessours or successours , without the intermedling of any secular man therin , as iudge , or hauing authority Ecclesiasticall , as of him self , but only by way of intercession . And this may be proued by infinite examples , but none more apparant , then by the practice of elections , and promotions of Ecclesiasticall persons ; wherin though since that time , by agreement of the Sea Apostolike , Catholike temporall Princes , haue for the most parte , denomination and presentation ; yet then they had not● but that all elections were free to the Chapters of Churches and monasteries ; & the confirmation commonly was sought at Rome , and the King had no more parte therin , but only that the said elections must be made by his leaue , & so presented to the Pope for confirmation . 15. And of this , & other like matters we might giue examples without end , for that euery day they fell out . As for example vpon the yeare 1226. which was the tenth yeare of K. Henries raigne , the Bishop of Durham Richard being dead , the K. endeauoured greatly to bring in a certaine chaplaine of his , named Luke , into that dignity , & delt earnestly with the Prior & Couēt of that C●●rch , to whom the election belonged to further the same . But they holding the man vnworthy , saith Mathew Paris , for so great a dignity , chose a learned and vertuous Priest , that was Archdeacon of VVorcester named VVilliam Scot , praying the King to be content therewith : and so sent him to Rome to be confirmed by Pope Honorius the 3. But K. Henry being offended therewith , sent the Bishop of Chichester with another Prior , for his Embassadours to Rome , to contradict the said election ; and thereby h●ld it in suspension for two years , vntill Pope Honorius being dead , and Gregory the 9. succeeding in his place , he did reiect both the one , and the other before named , and translated vnto Durham , Richard Bishop of Salisbury . And the same yeare determined also that great controuersie ( saith our Author ) that had lasted diuers years , between the Prior and Couent of the Monks of Couentry , and the Deane and Chapter of the Chanons of Lichfield , which of them should choose their Bishop ; and the said Popes determination was , that one parte should choose him one tyme , and the other the other ; but yet so , as the Prior of Couentry should alwayes haue the first voice in both elections , neither did the King contradict this ordination . 16. Moreouer in this verie same yeare of 1228 , died Cardinall Stephen Langhton Archbishop of Canterbury , with whome , and against whom K. Iohn moued so great troubles ( as before you haue heard ) who being dead , and the monkes according to order , hauing obtained licence of the King to make their election of a new , they chose a monke of their owne , called VValter Hemesham ; but the King after some deliberation , not liking of him , began to laie diuers obiections against him , as may bee seen in our Author that liued in those daies . But hee appealing to the Pope , went to Rome ; whervpon the King , setting downe his obiections in writing , sent the Bishops of Rochester and Chester , togeather with the Archdeacon of Bedford , for his Embassadours to contradict the same also : whome Pope Gregorie hauing heard , and considered for diuers moneths togeather , gaue sentence the next yeare after against him , and at the instance both of the King & Suffragan Bishops of Canterbury , elected of himself into that dignitie , one Richard that was Chauncellour of the Bisho● of Lincolne : Virum eminentis scientiae & literatura & conuersationis ●● nestae , saith our Author . A man of eminent knowledg , and learning and honest conuersation : though he doe add this , that to obtaine this election of the Pope , & to reiect the oth●● , the said Kings messengers offered , that his maiesty & the Realme , should be cōtent to graunt to his Holines a tenth ouer all England , for his warrs against Fredericke the Emperour . But howsoeuer that was , this proueth euidently the acknowledgment of his supreme Ecclesiasticall authority ou●r England by this King , as doe infinite other things , which are ouer many to be recoūted in this place . 17. For first this verie Archbishop Richard being procured , as you haue seen , with such diligence by the King , three years after his election , to witt , vpon the yeare of Christ 1231. when the King in a Parlament holden at VVestminster , exacted as well of the Clergie , as of the laitie , a certaine payment or contribution of money called Scutagium , not accustomed to be paied before , the said Archbishop with his Bishops audacter resistentes dixerunt , quod non tenerentur viri Ecclesiastici iudicio subijci laicorum ; boldlie resisting said vnto the King , that Clergie-men were not boūd to be vnder the iudgment of Lai-men in the Parlament . And moreouer the said Archbishop going priuatelie afterward to the King , complained much of his high Iusticer Hubert de Burgo Earle of Kent , for detaining certaine lands belonging to the Sea of Canterbury ; and a little after not receauing satisfaction from the King , he pronounced excommunication against the said Hubert and other detainers , and all that should keepe them companie , except onlie the King himself ; and hauing done this , he appealed to Rome , and went thither himself , Against whome the King sent one Roger de Cantelù and diuers other learned men , for his procurators , whome Pope Gregorie the nynth hauing heard , gaue sentence for the said Archbishop Richard against the King : Proposuerunt autem in contrarium Clerici Regis ( saith Matthew Paris ) pro ipso Rege & Iusticiario , multa inaniter allegantes , sed parum vel nihil profecerunt , quia causa Archiepiscopi iusta erat & fauorabilis . The Kings Clarks and Procurators proposed manie thinges to the contrarie in fauour of the King and his Iusticer , but of no moment ; and consequentlie they profited little or nothing with the Pope , for that the Archbishops cause was both iust and fauourable . See heer againe the Popes authoritie in practice . 18. And when this good Archbishop Richard dying in his way homeward , left the Church void againe of a Pastor , the Prior and Couent of Canterbury chose for Archbishop , one Raph Ne●il Bishop of Chester , and Cauncelour of the Realme , wherat the King being verie glad , sent his messengers togeather with the partie chosen , and the monkes that accompanied him to Rome , for his confirmation . But Pope Gregorie vpon the information of one Simon de Langituna , to whom the examination of the person was committed , did refuse him , as an vnlearned man , and a Courtyer , and vnapt to preach or teach ; but indeed ( as some suspected ) least being a great lawyer , and of much authoritie in England ( for that he was Chauncellour also of the Realme ) he should goe about to vndoe that couenant of temporall subiection , which King Iohn had made to the Church of Rome , and his sonne King Henry hitherto continued . But howsoeuer this was , he was not admitted , but the Couent of Canterbury was commaunded by the Pope to choose an other , which they did the next yeare after , choosing the Prior of their owne Couent named Iohn , whom the King accepting , he was sent to Rome with recommendation of both their letters ; & at the same time , the King sent also to Rome ( saith our Author ) a young knight named Robert Thynne of the North-countrey , that had fallen into the Popes excommunication , for a certaine excesse of his , to the end that he might be absolued : Deprecans obnixè , vt militem illius intuitu exaudiret , Desiring the Pope most earnestly , that for his sake , he would graunt the knight pardon and absolution in the thing he came for . 19. And albeit we may presume , that the Pope absolued the same knight , at the Kings request ; yet did he not admit for Archbishop , the elected Prior , but esteeming him to be ouer aged , commaunded the Prior and Couent of Canterbury , to choose a third , which was S. Edmund of Abingdon , canonized afterward by Pope Innocentius the 4. And at the same time , he wrote very sharpe letters vnto the King of England , reprehending him for suffering certaine violent excesses to be committed against Clergie-men ; Non habens respectum ad sacramenta , quae iurauerat tempore Coronationis suae , de pace Ecclesiae mantenenda , &c. As not hauing regard of the oath , which he did sweare in the tyme of his coronation , to maintaine the peace of the Church : Mandans Regi , & firmiter praecipiens sub paena excommunicationis , &c. Commaunding the King vnder paine of excommunication , to cause due 〈◊〉 tion to be made of the fact , and to send to Rome , those that should be found culpable therin , to be absolued by himself . To which commaundement the King obayed most promptly , and sent to Rome among others , the young knight before mentioned , with diuers of his seruaunts ; which well proueth the opinion he had of the Popes authority , & how farr he acknowledged the same . And many hundred other such like examples might I alleadge out of the life and large raigne of K. Henry , if it were not ouer tedious , for that this course did he hold all his dayes . 20. And albeit there began to be in his dayes , more then before , very great repining in the people , nobility , and Clergy , first against all strangers in generall , for that the King was most ruled for many years by Pictauians , or men borne in his Countryes of Poytoù beyond the seas , the principall wherof was one Peter Bishop of VVinchester , who did patronize the rest ; & then in particular also against Italians , that were preferred to Ecclesiasticall liuings in England , by the Popes of those times , more then before had byn accustomed ( who perhaps might presume the mo●● therin also , in respect of the temporall acknowledgement of the Kingdome before mentioned ) & that the said complaints grew to be so great and generall , as the King was sore pressed therewith ; and for remedy therof forced at length to dismisse and put away his said Pictauians : yet in the other point of Italians & Romaines , he could neuer be induced to doe more , but to represent only by way of supplication to the Popes themselues , the hurtes and inconueniences , that did ensue therof , that they themselues might put conuenient remedy . 21. And therefore first of all , vpon the yeare 1244. which was the 28. of his raigne , he wrote a letter to Pope Innocentius the 4. in these words . Sanctissim● in Christo Paetri ac Domino Innocentia , D●● gratia Summo Pontifici , Henricus eadem gratia , salutem & pedum 〈…〉 beatorum : and then he beginneth his le●ter thus . Quo amplius , &c. By how much the more an obedient sonne doth submit himself vnto his Fathers will , and more promptly and deuontly 〈◊〉 subiect himself to his commaundements , the more doth he deserue to haue his fatherly protection , as the reward of his obedience and deuotion . Hence it is , that albeit , at all tymes 〈◊〉 our raigne we haue exposed our selues and our Kingdome in all things , to the will of your Fatherhood ; and ther we haue in most busines of ours , found your fatherly solicitude and grace towards vs : yet in some prouisions of yours made to Clergie-men , both English and strangers , we find our selues and our Kingdome not a little aggreiued , &c. Wherefore we doe supplicate vnto your Fatherhood , that you will defend with Fatherly care and solicitude , all our rights and libertyes , which you may repute to be not so much ours , as yours ; and that you will cause them to be preserued in your Court , against the suggestiōs of whomsoeuer . And your Holines must not be moued , if we haue gone against some of your orders , and commaundements in this behalfe , for that the clamour of such , as thought themselues aggreiued , haue compelled vs therevnto ; and we may not deny any man right , for so much as by the office of Kingly dignity giuen vs by God , we are bound in ciuill matters to administer full iustice to all . 22. Thus wrote K. Henry vpon the foresaid yeare vnto Pope Innocentius the 4. and the next yeare after , which was 1245. there being held a generall Councell at Lions ( as before hath byn said ) the King and Realme tooke this resolution , to send certaine procurators thither , to cōplaine of the said greiuances & hurtes , which the Realme receiued by so many strangers , placed in benefices throughout England , who had neither language to preach and teach , nor mynd or meane to keep hospitality for the poore ; and that the naturall subiects of the land were heerby depriued of that preferment , & the patrons of benefices debarred of their right , to nominate , & present incumbents , by the Popes prouisions made in Rome , or of his Legats in England : which complaints seeming reasonable , were fauourably receiued in the said Councell , as may appeare by diuers rescripts of the said Pope Innocētius , to the Archbishops and Bishops of England , about prouiding the benefices vnder their charge , with fit English men : Vniuersitatem vestram monemus , rogamus , & hortamur , &c. We doe warne , beseech & exhorte the whole body of your Realme , and doe commaund you by these our Apostolicall letters , that you haue great care of all the youthes of your Cittyes and Diocesses , that are Clergie men , or desire to be , especially gentle-men and noble-mens sonnes , whom we desire to promote , &c. And againe in another Breue to the said Archbishops and Bishops : VVe doe exhorte & commaund you , to bestow the Ecclesiasticall benefices belonging to your collation , when they shall fall void , vpon fit men of your nation , &c. And yet further in a third Breue : Volentos iura vestra illaefa ser●ari , &c. We desiring that your right for bestowing of Ecclesiasticall benefices , 〈◊〉 inuiolate ; and that such as are Patrons of benefices , may present fit men of your nation , when they shall fall void , &c. 23. But yet the next yeare after , the King calling a generall Parlament at London , and the former greiuances not seeming to be sufficiently remedied , by the said recourse to the Councell , & answers and promises of the Pope ; the same complaints were renewed againe with greater exasperation then before , and the said greiuances put downe in writing . All which being considered and weighed by the Parlament : Vnanimiter consenser●●t omnes ( saith Mathew Paris ) vt adhuc ob reuerentiam Sedi● Apostolicae , Domino Papae humiliter & deuotè , tam per Epistolas , quam per solennes Nunci●s supplicarent , vt tam intollerabilia grauamina , & iugum subtraheret importabile . The whole Parlament did agree , that yet once more for reuerence of the Sea Apostolike , humble and deuout supplication should be made to the Pope , both by their letters and solemne messengers , that he would take from them the intollerable greiuances , and importable yoke , which by the foresaid abuses , they felt to ly vpon them . And so presently were written letters seuerally to be sent by the said messengers ; Frist by the Archbishops and Bishops ; Secondly by the Abbots , Priors , & religious men ; Thirdly by the Earls , Barons , and communitie of the Parlament ; Fourthly by the King himself , who wrote not only to the Pope , as the rest did , but a seueral letter also to the Cardinals , to further the suite , which letters are set downe by Mathew Paris at length , and are to long for this place . 24 , Yet one thing I cannot omit , that wheras the King wrote most deuoutly & humbly , both to the Pope & Cardinals , saying that he did make recourse in these complaints of his nobility and subiects , to the Church of Rome , Vt filius ad matrem , quem suis lactavit vberibus , as a sonne to his mother , whome she hath nourished with her teates of mylke : The said Barons , though oftentimes repeating the words implorantes humiliter ac deuotè , we beseeching you humbly and deuoutly , vt dignemini miscricorditer exaudire , that you wil vouchsafe mercifully to heare vs : Yet adioyned they also this threat in the end ; that except they were eased of these burthens laid vpon them , the Realme , and their King , they should be forced to put themselues , as a wall , for defence of the liberties of the said Kingdome , which hitherto for reuerence of the Sea Apostolike , they had differred to doe , nor could expect any longer , then the returne of their Embassadours . So they . 25. And by this we may se where the beginning was of those restraints , which afterward in the dayes of other ensuing Kings were made against prouisions from Rome , and benefices to be giuen to strangers : as also against appeals in certaine cases , & other such like ordinances , which seeme to containe some restraint of the execution of the Popes Ecclesiasticall authority in England . Which did not rise , as you see , vpon any change of former faith or iudgement in religion , or calling in question the said Popes spirituall iurisdiction ouer soules ; but only vpon temporall respects , reasons of state , and the like , which concerned nothing at all , faith , or beleife , or substance of religion . And this one only consideration ouerthroweth all the poore obiections , which M. Attorney hath picked out , vnder the raigne of this & other Kings that follow , which now we shall take in hand to examine , and discusse euery one , as they come in their place . Two instances alleadged out of the Raigne of this King Henry the third ; and of what weight they be . §. I. 26. And first , what doe you thinke M. Attorney bringeth out of this Kings raigne , or can bring to ouerthrow all that we haue alleadged before , in the same Kings life , beleife , gouernment and actions ? Doth he alleadge any one Law or Statute of his ? ( for that he was the father and founder of our Statute-lawes , as he confesseth ) doth he produce any one decree , wherby he declared , that he thought himself to haue supreme spirituall authority ? or denyed , or called in question that of the Sea Apostolike , notwithstanding all the greiuances which before haue byn mentioned ? No truly : no one word is alleadged therof , though otherwise as I said , this K. Henry made many Statutes , at sundry Parlaments ; as for example vpon the 9. yeare of his raigne , he made the famous Charter wherof we haue spoken before , called Magna Charta , containing 37. Chapters , which may in effect be called so many different Statutes . The first wherof beginneth thus : VVe haue graunted to God , and by this our present Charter haue confirmed for vs , and for our heirs for euermore , that the Church of England shall be free , and shall haue all her holy rites and libertyes inuiolable . So 〈◊〉 first and most ancient Statute , and the cheifest liberty of the Church of England , is vnderstood to haue byn their free dependance of the Sea Apostolike , and their recourse therevnto without interruption , or intermedling of any secular power in their Ecclesiasticall affaires . 27. Besides this , there was made by him in the same 9. yeare of his raigne , the other notorious Charter , named Charta de Foresta : cōtaining 16. Chapters or braūches ; as also the other named Merton vpon the 20. yeare of the said Kings raigne , that hath six seuerall braunches or Statutes ; as diuers others also made vpon the 51. year of the said Kings raigne , intituled vnder diuers particular titles ; as Dies communes in Banco : Dies communes in dote : District●●● Scaeccariae : Iudicium Collistrigij de compositione mensurarum , and the like . And finally the other booke of Statutes made vpon 52. yeare , called Marle-bridge , containing 16. braunches or statutes . In all which no one thing is found in fauour of M. Attorney or his assertion , but many for vs , if we would examine the partes and clauses of euery one . For that the religion of England in that tyme being perfectly Catholike , and agreeing in all things with it self , & with other Kingdomes of the world in one manner of beliefe , and acknowledgement of the dependance of Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall power from the Sea Apostolike ; they could not make lawes , for ordering their temporall affaires , but must needs enterlace many things , that did testifie the conformitie and subordination therof to the spirituall . And if any temporall lawyer in England at this day , though of far inferiour account and place to M. Attorney , would take vpon him to write a booke , & alleadge all the lawes , both common and statute , and braunches therof , that doe confirme , allow , or strengthen the Catholike Religion , from most auncient tymes , wherin any memory is of our lawes ; he might so far ouerbeare M. Attorney both in bulke and substance , and truth of his allegations , as S. Augustines volumes ( for example ) doe exceed in all these points Esops fables . And this will you see in parte , by that which we are now first to examine in this place I meane his first obiection , set downe out of King Henry , which shall goe in this owne words , as before we haue accustomed . The Attorney . In all the time of K. Henry the third , and his progenitours Kings of England , and ouer sithence , if any man doe sue afore any Iudge Ecclesiasticall within this Realme , for any thing , wherof that court , by allowance and custome , had not lawfull Conusaunce , the King did euer by his writ , vnder the great seale , prohibite them to proceed . And if the suggestion made to the King , whervpon the prohibition was grounded , were after found vntrue ; then the King by his writ of consultation , vnder his great seale , did allow and permit them to proceed . Also in all the raigne of Henry the third , and his progenitours Kings of England , and euer sithence , if any issue were ioyned vpon the loyalty of marriage , generall bastardy , or such like , the King did euer write to the Bishop of that Diocesse , as mediate officer & minister to his courte , to certifie the loyalty of marriage , bastardy , or such like : all which doe apparantly proue , that those Ecclesiasticall Courts were vnder the Kings iurisdiction and commaundement , and that one of the Courts were so necessarily incident to the other , as the one without the other could not deliuer iustice to the parties , as well in these particular cases , as in a number of cases before specified , wherof the Kings Ecclesiasticall Courte hath iurisdiction . Now to commaund and to be obayed , belonge to soueraigne , and supreme gouernment , &c. The Catholike Deuine . 28. The conclusion or inference vpon this narration , must be noted by the Reader , to be M. Attorneys owne , and not to be taken out of any other lawyers booke , as the former parte of the narratiō is , that telleth vs , how the King appointeth , that ech Court , both spirituall and temporall , shall handle matters and causes , proper and peculiar vnto them , and the one not to intrude it self into the affaires of the other ; and to this effect are his vvrits appointed of prohibition , where matters are assumed , which ought not in that Courte to be treated , and of consultation to will them to proceed , when their right is knowne . All which maketh for vs , shewing that the King would haue the subordination between these two Courts to be obserued , and the spirituall to direct the temporall , where any one thing might belonge vnto them both . As for example , if any man were impeached of bastardy , & thervpon his inheritance were claimed by another , the Ecclesiasticall Court was first to giue sentence of the marriage , whether it were lawfull , or no ; & then according to that sentēce was the tēporal Court to giue possession , or not , of the inheritāce . 29. And that this was the true sincere meaning of the law at that time , intending therby to shew the excellency and prerogatiue of the Bishops spirituall Courts , aboue the Kings temporall ; is plaine and euident by an other Statute of this maner ( which M. Attorney would not see ) made in the 9. yeare of King Henry the 6. where it is ordained in explication of the former , that when any such Plea of bastardie is held in any Courte of the Kings , the Iudges therof shall make proclamation once in their Courte , & the Chauncelour of England certified therof by them , shall cause to be made 3. seuerall proclamatiōs , in 3. seuerall moneths , in the Chaūcery : That al persons pretending any interest , to obiect against the party , shall sue to the Ordinary ( or Bishop ) to whom the writ of certificate from the said Iudge or Iudges , is , or shall be directed , to make their allegations , and obiections against the party , as the law of Holy Church requireth . And that without this forme obserued , al other processe shal be voide , &c. 30. And by this we may see how carefull the auncient lawes were to haue the spirituall Courte , as the superiour , well informed according to the law of Holy Church ; and how not only ordinary Iudges , but the Chauncellour of England himself , & his highest Court of Chauncery was appointed to serue vnto this : for that of the spirituall Courts iudgement , depended in all such causes , the iudgement of the temporall Courts . And by this you will se also , the vaine sleight of M. Attorney , in telling vs , that the King did euer write vnto the Bishop of that Diocesse , as mediate officer and minister to his Courte , to certifie the loyaltie of marriage , &c. For where doth he find in any ancient law at all , those words ( as mediate officer and minister to his Courte ) & in the latine , himself leaueth out the words , to his Courte ; though in calling the Bishop mediate officer , or minister , which is as much to say , as superior officer , ( for that in mediation and subordination of officers , and ministers that gouerne , the mediate hath the higher roome , in respect of the people and Court wherof he is officer ) he includeth a contradiction against himselfe , for then is the said Bishop also aboue all immediate temporall Iudges , that must giue him certificate ( wherof the Chauncellour we se is one ) euen in the Kings temporall Courts themselues . 31. But the inference is much more subtile , when M. Attorney saith : All which doe apparantly proue , that those Ecclesiasticall Courts , were vnder the Kings iurisdiction and cōmaundement . But M. Attorney must not so huddle vp iurisdiction and commaundement , for that no man will deny , but that all sortes of persons ( as before hath byn said ) are vnder the cōmaundement , & gouernement of the temporall Prince , whom he may commaund , ech one to doe their office & duty in the Cōmon-wealth . And so may he appoint Ecclesiastical Courts , to notifie their sentences , iudgements , & proceedings to his Courts , & his Courts to informe the Ecclesiastical Courts , for good & mutuall correspondence between them both , which we graunt also to be necessary in euery Common-wealth . 32. But iurisdiction , which M. Attorney craftely confoundeth heer and shuffleth vp with commaundement , is a far different thing , importing a higher authority in the same kinde : as if the temporall Prince haue iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall vpon Bishops and their spirituall Courtes ; then doth it follow that all their power in spirituall matters is subordinate to him , and deriued from him ; and so were there no necessity of this distinction , and subordination of spirituall and temporall Courts . For that the Prince hauing both powers in himself , might giue the same vnto any temporal Iudge to decide Ecclesiastical matters also in his Court : which yet M. Attorney doth often deny , that the Common-lawes can take conusaunce of such affaires . And surely it is worth no lesse then laughter , to heare him repeat so often The Kings Ecclesiasticall Courte , as though this were sufficient to proue the Kings Ecclesiasticall authority in those Courts , for that all Courts are the Kings Courts , in that they are vnder his protection , gouernement , and direction , and to the vse , and profit of his people . And so were also the Ecclesiasticall Courts of King Henry the third in this sense , who yet chalenged no spirituall authority therin , as by our whole former discourse you haue seen . 33. But now let vs contemplate a little the last conclusion of M. Attorney vpon this narration . Now to commaund ( saith he ) and to be obayed , belongeth to soueraigne and supreme gouernement : which we deny not in the sense , wherin it may be true ; that is , to commaund , and to be obaied in temporall matters , belongeth to soueraignty in that kinde ; and to commaund , and be obaied in spirituall matters , belongeth to soueraignty in those affaires : wherof you haue heard many examples , concerning the Sea of Rome before alleadged . But for the King , and his temporall officers to demaund a certificate from the Bishops Court ( for the Statute vsed not the word , of cōmaunding or obaying ) to let them know thereby , what the Bishops sentence and iudgement is , to the end they may frame theirs accordingly ; this by M. Attorneys leaue is no commaunding in the iurisdiction it self of spirituall affaires ; and consequently inferreth no Ecclesiasticall soueraignty . And if he be not satisfied by that which we haue already alleadged , out of the raigne of K. Henry the third , of spirituall soueraignty acknowledged by him , and all his Realme in the Sea of Rome , but would see further some examples in particular of the same soueraignty , or superiority at least , vsed and practised by the Bishops of England towards the King himself and Realme in that kind ; let him consider these examples following besides the former . 34. When K. Henry the third vpon the 16. yeare of his raigne falling out with Hubert de Burgo Earle of Kent , that had byn his great fauourite , & high Iusticer for many former years , cast him into prison , and he escaping , fled to a certaine Chappel for Sanctuary , from whence the King had caused him to be drawne forth ; Roger Bishop of London ( for that it was in his Diocesse ) came vnto him , and said , that except he caused him to be restored to the place of Sanctuary againe , Ipse omnes huius violentiae authores excommunicationis sententia innodaret . He would bind all the authors of this violence vsed , by the sentence of excōmunication . And what followed of this ? Did the King deny his authority ? or say that he was not vnder his iurisdiction ? or that himself had supreme authority and iurisdiction ouer the Bishop in that case ? ( as he might haue done according to M. Attorneys assertiō ) No : For the words of Mathew Paris immediately following , are these : Rex autem licet inuitus , reatum suum intelligens , remisit Hubertum ad Capellain , & vbi captus suerit à militibus armatis , restituitur ab ijsdem , quint● Calendas Octobris . The King , though against his will , perceiuing his owne fault , sent backe Earle Hubert to the Chappell againe , where he was restored , vpon the fifth day before the Calends of October , by the same armed souldiars , that had drawne him from thence . And the same Author addeth , that the Kings anger was so great , as he commaunded the Earles of Hartford and Essex , to set souldiars about the said Chappell , that no meate might be giuen him , vntill he rendred himself . And not many dayes after this the said Earle Hubert being carried from that Chappel , vpon composition , vnto the castle of Vise in the Diocesse of Salisbury , he by help of two souldiars that kept him , escaping thence , got into a Parish Church neer by , out of which being taken by the Kings officers , Robert Bishop of Salisbury , excommunicated them altogeather , with their aiders and defenders , and then went to the King in companie of other Bishops , to denounce vnto him the said sentence , who after much resistance , yeelded , saith our Author ; Et in eadem Ecclesia , concedente ( sed inuito ) Rege , remissus est 15. Calend . Nouemb. And so the said Earle Hubert was sent backe againe out of the said Castle , vnto the Church , the King yeelding thervnto , though against his will , vpon the 15. day before the Calends of Nouember in the yeare 1232. 35. The next yeare after this againe , the forsaid Roger Bishop of London , hauing been at Rome , & returned to Douer , found there VValter Bishop of Carleile in his iourney towards Rome , hauing appealed to the Pope against K. Henry , for certaine iniuries offered him , and to his Church , as he pretended ; and albeit the King did not let or forbid his repaire to Rome , yet shewing himself much displeased therewith , his officers at the port handled him verie discourteouslie , and denied him passage without the Kings licence : which the said Bishop of London seeing , excommunicated all the Kings officers , that had parte in that violence , and then going to Hereford , where the King at that time lay with a great army to inuade VVales , and taking certaine Bishops with him , they tolde his Maiesty of the abuse committed . Which , when the K. seemed not to care for , or not willing to redresse , they renewed there againe in the Kings presence , the sentence of excommunication against the said malefactors , and all those that assisted or fauoured them . Non mediocriter Rege murmurante ( saith our Author ) & ne talem ferrent sententiam prohibente . The King not a little repinning , and forbidding them to pronounce any such sentence ; So as heere we see commaunding without obaying in spirituall matters , meeteth with M. Attorneys conclusion , that to commaunde , and to bee obaied , belongeth to soueraignty , and supreme gouernement . 36. And yet further the next yeare ensuing , which was the 18. of K. Henries raigne , the King being highlie offended with the Earle Marshall of England , for entring into a certaine Castle of his owne , by force : Praecepit Episcopis cunctis , vt Mariscallum nominatim excommunicarent . Sed illi è contrae communiter dixerunt ; Indignum esse , quia Castellum , quod suum fuit , occupauit . The King commaunded all the Bishops ( being gathered togeather in Parlament ) to excommunicate by name , the Earle Marshall . But they answered him with one voice to the contrarie ; that hee deserued it not , for so much , as he had taken , but his owne Castle . And heere againe we see cōmaunding without obaying in spiritual affaires . And if the King had thought himself , to be supreme in Ecclesiasticall authoritie , he might haue excommunicated the Marshall himself , without depending of his Bishops . 37. And a few dayes after this againe vpon the yeare 1234. the holy man Edmund , that afterward was canonized for a Saint , being consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury , at which consecration , the King himself was present with his nobility , and 13. Bishops , ( as our Author recounteth ) the said Archbishop after his consecration , consulting with the said Bishops & nobility , about the pittifull State of the Realme , deuided in it self by the Kings euill gouernment , that followed the counsaile of Pictauians , and other strangers ; the said Archbishop went to the King , laid the inconueniences before him , humbly besought him to take the true remedy , which was to dismisse those strangers , and if he would not , he should be forced to vse Ecclesiasticall Censures against them : Et ipse in cōtinenti , cum omnibus , qui aderant , Praelatis , in ipsum regem sententiam serret excommunicationis : He would out of hand , with all the Bishops there present , pronounce the sentence of excommunication against the King himself . Rex autem peris audicas , humiliter respondit ; quod consilijs corum in omnibus obtemperaret , &c. And the pious King hearing this , did answere humbly , that he would in all things obay their counsailes . And so he did , and within few dayes after , he sent away Peter , Bishop of VVinchester from the Courte , which was the cheife of the said strangers that most defended them , and cast into prison another Peter surnamed De Rhicuallis , that had byn Treasurer , and diuers others . So as heere also we see the spirituall authority of Clergie-men aboue the King ; not only in the Pope himself , but also in the Bishops of England , which otherwise were subiects to the said King in temporall affaires . 38. Yea , not only Bishops , but other Prelates also of lesser degree , haue exercised the same authority spirituall in England , euen against the King when occasion was offered . As for example , when this K. Henry had vsed very familiarly & intrinsecally , one Raph Briton , that had byn his Treasurer , he after falling out with him , banished him the Courte : and soone after that againe , the said Raph being a Clerke , and liuing at his Chanonry of S. Pauls , the Maior of London had commission to apprehend him , and send him to the Tower , as he did : which Doctor Lusey Deane of Pauls vnderstāding , called his Chanons togeather ( the Bishops of London being absent ) & seeing the violence vsed to a Clergy-man , did put the Church of S. Paul vnder Interdict , & pronoūced sentence of excommunication against the doers , maintainers , and fauourers of this vnlawfull act . The King stood stiffe for a time ( saith our Author ) but at length , Rex dictum Ranulphum , licet inuitus , solui , & in pace dimitti praecepit . The King though against his will , did commaund the said Raph to be remitted peaceably vnto the place , whence he was taken . 39. Now then these examples and many more which for breuityes sake I pretermit , doe make another manner of proofe of Ecclesiastical soueraignty in Clergie-men , then doth M. Attorneys poore inferēce about the sending for a certificate to the Bishops Court , concerning matters to be tried therin , as before you haue heard . And by this also you may see , and consider the difference of substance , and substantiall dealing between vs. And so much to this first instance . Now let vs examine the second . The Attorney . By the aūcient Canōs & decrees of the Church of Rome , the issue borne before solemnization of marriage is as lawfull & inheritable ( marriage following ) as the issue borne after marriage . But this was neuer allowed or appointed in England , and therfore was neuer of any force heere . And this appeareth by the Statute of Merton , made in the 20. yeare of Henry the 3. where it is said to the Kings writ of bastardy : Whether one being borne afore matrimony , may inherit in like manner , as he that is borne after matrimony ? All the Bishops answered , that they would not , nor could not answere to it , because it was directly against the common order of the Church : and all the Bishops instanted the Lords that they would consent , that all such as were borne before matrimony should be legitimate , as wel as they that be borne within matrimony , to the succession of inheritance ; for so much as the Church accepteth such to be legitimate . And all the Earles and Barons with one voice answered , we will not change the lawes of England , which hitherto haue byn vsed , and approued . The Catholike Deuine . 40. This is the second instance of M. Attorney , taken out of this raigne of K. Henry ; and we must imagine , that proofes goe hard with him , when to seeme to say somwhat , he is driuen to bring forth such silly ware , as this is . For if all be graunted ( as it may be ) which heere is said , what can he inferre therof , but only , that the Lords and Barons of the Parlament , did not thinke good to alter or change the auncient laws , or customes of the Realme , about succession of their children , by legitimation , after matrimony contracted : notwithstanding the Church of Rome in certaine cases did allow them for legitimate and lawfull , in respect of taking holy orders , enioying benefices , and other like commodityes : what ( I say ) doth this import M. Attorneys conclusion , that K. Henry tooke vpon him supreme Ecclesiastical gouernmēt ? For that this was free for the Realme to admitt , or not admit the said legitimation , to the effect of lawfull succession and inheritance . And so the Canons themselues doe expresly set downe . 41. For better vnderstanding wherof , wee must note , that wheras by the auncient Ciuill-law , great respect was had euer to children , borne out of wedlocke , if marriage afterward did ensue , notwithstanding they held marriage but only for a Ciuill cōtract : so afterward when Christian Emperours came to beare sway , more indulgence and fauour was shewed therin ; as may appeer by the Constitutions , both of Constantine the first Christian Emperour , and Zeno that ensued him , and more yet by Iustinian , which do most fully in diuers places , both of the Code , and Nouell Constitutions explicate the same . In conformity wherof the Canon-law also decreeth in this sorte : Tanta est vis matrimonij , vt qui anteà sunt geniti , post contractum matrimonium legitimi habeantur . So great is the force of matrimony ( held for a Sacrament among Christians ) as it maketh such to be legitimate after it is cōtracted , who were illegitimate before . But yet this is with some restrictions : as for example , that they must be borne , ex soluto & soluta : that is to say both the father , & mother must be vnmarried at the time when the said children are begotten . For if either of them were married at that time , then this priuiledge holdeth not , as * appeareth in the same law . 42. Secondly this legitimation by ensuing marriage , is to bee vnderstood principallie , as before hath said , In spiritualibus : To enable men to Ecclesiasticall promotions , though in the Popes temporall dominions it may enable them also to temporall succession , but not in the States and dominions of other Princes . And this verie distinction or caution is set downe in like manner by the * law it self ; and heervpon is resolued also in a case touching the King of England , by Pope Alexander the 3. that albeit the Ecclesiasticall Iudge must determine of the lawfulnes of marriage it self ; yet the question of temporall succession , or inheritance therevpon depending , must bee decided by the Iudges of the temporall Courte : Nos attendentes ( saith Pope Alexander to the Bishops of London and VVorcester ) quod ad Regem pertinet , non ad Ecclesiam de talibus possessionibus iudicare , Fraternitati vestrae mandamus , quatenus Regi possessionis iudicium relinquentes , de causa principali cognoscatis , eamque terminetis . Wee considering that it belongeth to the King of England , and not to the Church to iudge of such possessions , as depend of legitimation ; we commaund your brotherhoods , that leauing the iudgment of the said possessions to the King and his Courts , you examine onlie the principall cause , concerning the loialtie of the marriage it self , and determine the same . 43. Heerby then wee see first , that M. Attorney alleadging this instance , hath alleadged nothing at all against vs , or for himself . For that when the Earls and Barons refused to change the laws of England , concerning inheritance vpon legitimation , they said no more , then is allowed them by the Canon-law it self , as you haue heard . And how will M. Attorney inferre of this , that K. Henry the third , held himself to haue supreme authority ecclesiasticall ; for that this must be his conclusion out of his instance , or els he saith nothing , 44. And it shall not be amisse to note by the way , how these men doe vse to ouer-lash in their asseueratiōs , to help their feeble cause thereby . By the auncient Canons and Decrees of the Church of Rome ( saith he ) the issue borne before solemnization of marriage , is as lawfull and inheritable ( marriage following ) as the issue borne after marriage . But this is not sincerely related : For the Canon-law , as you haue heard , putteth diuers restrictions , both in the persons to be legitimated , and in the ends and effects , whervnto they are legitimated ; as also concerning the Countries & Kingdomes , wherin they are legitimated . Of all which variety of circumstances and considerations M. Attorney saying nothing , his intention therin may easily be ghessed at . And so much for this matter . OF THE LIVES AND RAIGNES OF KING EDVVARD The first , and second ; Father , and sonne : And what arguments M. Attorney draweth from them , towards the prouing of his purpose . CHAP. XI . HAVING now come downe by orderly descent of seauen hundred yeares & more , of the raignes of our Christian English Kings , & shewed them all to haue byn of one , and the self same Catholicke Roman religion , & comforme also in the point of this our controuersie , about the acknowledgement and practise of the spirituall power , and authoritie of the Sea Apostolicke in England , concerning ecclesiasticall affaires : And hauing declared the same so largely , as you haue heard , in three Henries since the Conquest , of famous memory and authoritie aboue the rest , and the last of them author also , and parent of all Statute-law in our Realme ; we are to examine now in order three Edwardes lineally succeeding the one to the other , and all three proceeding from this last named Henry . Vnder which Edwardes and their ofspring , M. Attorney pretēdeth more restraint to haue byn made in some points , of the Popes externall iurisdiction , then vnder former Kings ; which though it be graunted vpon some such occasions ( as after shal be shewed ) yet will you fynd the matter far shorte of that conclusion , which he pretendeth to maintayne , that hereby they tooke vpon them spirituall soueraingty in causes Ecclesiasticall . You shall see it by the triall . OF KING EDVVARD THE FIRST , VVhich vvas the nynth King after the Conquest . §. I. 2. When King Henry the third dyed , his eldest sonne Prince Edward was occupied in the wars of the Holy land , being then of the age of thirty three yeares , who hearing of his Fathers death , retourned presently homeward , and passing by the Citty of Rome , found there newly made Pope , Gregory the tenth , called before Theobald , with whome in tymes past , he had familiarly byn acquainted , whiles he was Legate for his predecessor Vrbane the fourth , in the said warrs of the Holy-land ; who receaued him with all honour and loue , and graunted vnto him ( saith Stow ) the tenth of all Ecclesiasticall benefices in England , as well temporall , as spirituall , for one yeare , & the like to his brother Edmund for an other , in recompence of their expences made in the Holy-land . Whervpon , when the next yeare after , the said Gregory called a generall Councell at Lions in France ( which was the second held in that place ) of aboue fiue hundred Bishops , and a thousand other Prelates , King Edward sent also a most honourable embassage thither , both of Bishops and Noble-men . 3. This King Edward beginning his raigne in the yeare of Christ 1272. continued the same for almost 35. yeares , with variable euents . For as he was a tall , and goodly Prince in person , high in stature , and thereof surnamed Long-shanke ; so was he in mynd also no lesse war-like , haughty , earnest , and much giuen to haue his owne will by any meanes whatsoeuer , when once he set himself theron : though yet when he was in calme , & out of passion , he shewed himself a most religious , and pious Prince . 4. Of the later may be example among other things , his speciall deuotion to the Blessed Virgin mother of our Sauiour , which both Mathew VVestminster , and VValsingham doe recount from the very beginning of his raigne , & doe cōtinue the same throughout his life , by occasion of many strange and miraculous 〈◊〉 from imminent dangers , which himself ascribed to the said d●uotion , and to our Blessed Ladies speciall protection . Wherevnto may be referred in like māner , the piety of the said King , shewed in diuers other occasions . As first of all , when in the first yeare of his raigne he voluntarily set forth , published , and confirmed the Great Charter made by his Father in fauour of the Church , saying as in the said Charter is to be read : Pro salute animae nostrae , & animarum antecessorum & successorum nostroruus Regum Angliae , ad exaltationem Sanctae Ecclesiae , & emendationem Regni nostri , spontanea & bona reluntate nostra , dedimus & concessinius , &c. We haue giuen and graunted freely , & of our owne good will , this Charter , for the health of our soule , and of the soules , as well of our predecessours , as successours , Kings of England , to the exaltation of holy Church , and amendment of our Kidgdome , &c. 5. And the like piety he shewed in many other occasions in like manner , as namely , when he being in his iourney with a great army towards Scotland , and his wife Q. Eleanor daughter to King Ferdinand the third of Spaine , surnamed the Saint , a most vertuous & religious Lady falling sicke , & dying neere the borders therof , he leauing his course , retourned backe with her dead body to London : Cunctis diebus vitae suae eam plangebat ( saith Walsingham ) & Iesum benignum iugis precibus pro ea interpellabat , eleemosynarum largitiones , & Missarum celebrationes pro ea diuersis Regni locis ordinans in perpetuum & procurans . The King did bewayle this Queenes death all the dayes of his life , and did by continual prayers , call vpon mercifull Iesus , to vse mercy towards her , ordeyning great store of almes to be giuen for her , as also procuring Masses to be said for her soule , in diuers partes of the Kingdome . 6. And moreouer in all the places where the said body rested , as it came to London , he erected great goodly crosses in her memory : Vt à transeuntibus ( saith VValsingham ) pro eius anima deprecetur : that such as passed by , seing that crosse , might pray for her soule . And moreouer in particuler , Stow out of auncient recordes doth affirme , the said King to haue bestowed two mannors , and nyne hamlets of land , vpon the monastery of VVestminster , for the keeping of yearely obits for the said Queene , and for money to be giuen to the poore in almes . 7. I leaue to speake of many other such actions of his , as that he procured amongst other things , the solemne & most honourable translations of the bodyes of three English saints , in his dayes , S. Richard Bishop of Chichester S. Hugh Bishop of Lincolne , and S. VVilliam Archbishop of Yorke : He consented also and concurred that Q Eleanor his mother , should leaue her Princely state and dignity , and to be veyled Nunne in the Monastery of Almesbury , and enioy her dowry ( which was great ) that she had in England all dayes of her life , which was also confirmed to her by the Popes authority : ( saith Mathew VVestminster ) yea and soone after he consented in like manner , that his owne dearest daughter the Lady Mary also ( to whom he had designed a great and high state by marriage ) should follow the like profession of religions life in the same monastery , though in this later he had much more difficulty to wynne himself to consent thervnto , then in the former . 8. And finally , this other act also may be added for a full complement of his piety , when he was in good tune , which is recorded by the said Mathew of VVestminster that liued at the same time , and perhaps was present ; that in the yeare of Christ 1297. which was the tenth before he dyed , being to passe ouer the seas towards his warrs , and hauing extremely vexed his people , both spiritualty and temporalty , with heauy exactions for the same , and in particular broken grieuously with Robert VVinchelsey Archbishop of Canterbury , he being now ready to departe , called all the people togeather , vpon the 13. of Iuly , before the great hall of VVestminster , and there standing vp vpon a certayne scaffolde of timber , the said Archbishop of Canterbury , newly reconciled vnto him , remaining on the one side , and the Earle of VVarwicke on the other , and his little Prince Edward before him : Erumpentibus lachrymis ( saith our Author ) veniam de commissis humiliter postulauit , &c. the teares breaking forth , he did most humbly aske forgiuenes of his subiects , for all that he had committed against them , confessing that he had not gouerned them so well , and quietly as became a King to doe , but had taken their goods from them , &c. Adding further and saying : Beholde I go now to expose my self , and my life to danger for you : wherefore I aske at your hands , that if I returne againe , you will receaue me in the place that now you hold me , and I shall restore vnto you againe all that I haue taken from you , and if I returne not , then take this my childe , and crowne him for your King. Whervnto the Archbishop weeping abundantly , answered that it should be so , and the people with crying out , and casting vp their armes , promised fidelity , and obedience vnto his ordination . So Mathew VVestminster . And this for his piety . 9. But of the other point of his peremptory and violent proceeding diuers times with his subiects , there want not also many examples , especially in exacting often , and great subsidies at their hands , for his warrs of France , Scotland , and VVales , wherin he was continually imployed ; & was the first King in deed , that euer brought VVales to be wholy subiect to England , Lecline the last Prince therof being taken and slaine , and his brother Dauid likewise apprehended , and put to death in London by the same K. Edward . 10. Alexander also King of Scotland being deceased , and all his issue extinguished , K. Edward as chiefe Lord , tooke vpon him to decide that controuersie for the succession , and in the end determined the matter in fauour of Iohn Baliol Earle of Galloway , against Robert Bruse Earle of Valenand , that pretended the same . And albeit the whole nobility , and people of Scotland bound themselues by obligation ( which our historyes doe set downe ) to stand to the iudgement of the said K. Edward : yet in the end they would not , but assisted the said Bruse , & made recourse to Pope Boniface the 8. to prohibite K. Edward to proceed in that matter , and to commaund him to surcease from his warrs against Scotland , which they pretended to be in the protection of the Sea of Rome : and finally after much bloudshed , and infinite expences , both in this Kings tyme and his successours , the of-spring of Bruse preuayled in that Countrey . 11. But now ( as I said ) in respect of these warrs , and many necessityes theron depending , K. Edward was forced greatly to presse his people with exactions , and to make them forfaite , and buy againe their libertyes , especially that of Magna charta , and of the Charter of Forrest , which as voluntarily , he set forth and published in the beginning of his raigne , as you haue heard : so afterward ( the same not being obserued ) vpon instant suites of his people and nobility , and contributions graunted him for the renouation therof , he confirmed it two or three tymes in his life , & as often reuoked the same againe , vntill he had more money . And last of all , in the yeare 1307. which was the last of his raigne , he sued to the Pope for a dispensation of his oath , made in that behalfe to keepe the said Charters & priuiledges , affirming them to be made against his wil , & by force of his peoples importunity . 12. We reade also , that in the yeare 1278. and sixt of his raigne , he did depriue many famous Monasteryes ( saith Mathew of VVestminster ) of their auncient accustomed libertyes , & namely among others , the Monastery of VVestminster , wherin he had receaued ( saith he ) both baptisme , confirmation , and coronation , and wherin his Fathers , and other his auncestours bodyes lay . And moreouer , in the yeare 1295. he vsed great violence to all Monkes and religious men , that were strangers , and had their Monasteryes buylded by straungers in England : for he tooke their Monasteries and goods from them , allowing only to euery Monke 18. pence a weeke for his mayntenaunce , for a tyme : & the next yeare after he commaunded vpon the suddaine all the Monasteryes of England to be searched , and all their treasure to be taken violently , and to be brought to London to his Exchequer , for the charges of his said warrs . And two yeares after this againe , the same King holding his Parlament at S. Edmunds-bury , and demaunding a great contribution of his people , the Clergy denyed it , pretending a new commaundement and constitution lately made by Pope Bonifacius the eight , wherby he did forbid vnder paine of excommunication , that any such exactions should be paid by Ecclesiasticall men , without consent of the Sea Apostolicke ; wherat King Edward being offended , though he would not contradicte the said constitution ; yet he excluded the Clergy , that refused to pay , from his protection , and from the protection of the lawes ; whereby they being abandoned , and exposed to all iniuryes , the most of them fell to composition with the King , & so bought out , and purchased their protection againe , more deerer then they might haue continued the same by their contribution . 13. And as for the Archbishop of Canterbury that stood constant amongst the rest in that denyall : Omnia bona eius ( saith Mathew of VVestminster ) mobilia , & immobilia capta sunt in manu Regis . All his goods both moueable & vnmoueable were taken into the Kings hands . And the same Authour doth recount infinite other intollerable vexations , laid vpon them that would not agree to the Kings demaunds in those affaires , which were accompanyed with such threates and terrors , as the Deane of Paules in London , named VVilliam Mont-fort , comming one day before the King , to speake for his Chanons , was so terrifyed , as he became mute , and fell downe dead before him : which yet ( saith out Author ) moued little the King , but that he persisted in his demaundes . And one day sending a knight , named Syr George Hauering , to the Monastery of VVestminster , when all the Monkes were there gathered togeather in their Refectory , or dyning-place , the said knight proposed in the Kings name , that they would graunt him halfe their reuenewes for his warrs , and if any wil deny this demaund ( saith he ) let him stand vp , & shew himself , that he may be handled as one guilty of breaking the Kings peace : Whervpon all yeelded , saith Mathew of VVestminster , and no man would after , with so great daunger , contradicte the Kings will. And thus much of his violent māner of proceeding with the Church and Clergy , wherevnto I might adioyne many other things ; as his dryuing out of the Realme the forsaid Robert Archbishop of Canterbury ; his Statutes made in the last Parlament at Carleile the same yeare he dyed , in preiudice of Holy Churches liberty , which were the first that are read to haue bin made in that kind , and consequently are thought to haue byn a great cause of all the miseryes and calamityes , that fell vpon his posterity , as after you shall heare . 14. But yet all this doth not proue , that King Edward denyed , or doubted of the Popes spirituall power , or tooke the same vpon himself , which is M. Attorneys case and conclusion . Nay rather they doe shew , and proue his acknowledgement of the said authority , if we consider them well , though in certayne points that seemed to extend themselues to temporall affaires , and might be preiudiciall vnto him , he sought to decline and auoyde the execution therof . But in things meerely spirituall , he neuer shewed difficulty . As for example : that his Bishops and Archbishops went to Rome to receaue their confirmation and inuestitures there , and sometymes were chosen also immediatly from thence : as when in the yeare 1278. Robert Kilwarby Archbishop of Canterbury was made Cardinall by Pope Nicholas the third , and the Monkes of Canterbury by request of the King , had chosen his Chancellour , the Pope would not admitt him , but appointed an other , to witt Iohn Peckam , Prouinciall of the Franciscan friers in England , who being admitted , held the said Archbishopricke for 13. yeres vntill he dyed . But as for confirmation and inuestitures , no doubt can be made , but all was to be had from Rome , as expresly you may reade of the admission and consecration of VVilliam Archbishop of Yorke : In Romana Curia cōsecratus ( saith VValsingam ) who was consecrated in the Court of Rome in this same yeare of 1278. by Pope Martyn the fourth , that succeeded to Nicolas . And the same Author affirmeth , that the foresaid Iohn Peckam , Archbishop of Canterbury being also consecrated in Rome , did some two yeares after , call a Councell at Reading , commaunding all his Suffragan Bishopps to obserue exactly the decrees of the late generall Councell held at Lyons by Pope Gregory the tenth ; nor did King Edward mislike or repine any thing at this , as neither he did at another Councell called by the same Archbishop Peckam in the yeare 1281. wherin he endeauored to force all Abbots , and other exempted persons to come to the said Councell , but ( saith Mathew VVestminster ) the Abbotts of VVestminsters , S. Edmonds-Bury , S. Albanes , and of VValtham appealed from him to the Pope , without any mention of the King , which had beene iniurious vnto him , if he had taken himself to haue had authority , and that supreme , in Ecclesiasticall affaires . 15. Furthermore in the yeare of Christ 1295. being the 22. of King Edwardes raigne , when the foresaid Robert VVinchelsey was first chosen Archbishop of Canterbury , the sayd King sent him to Rome to be confirmed , and consecrated by Pope Celestinus the fifth , which soone after gaue ouer the popedome to Bonifacius the eight . And three yeares after that againe , to wit 1298. the Bishopricke of Ely being voyde , and the greater parte of the Monkes hauing chosen the Prior of their Couent for Bishop , the other party chose Iohn Langhton the Kings Chancellour , who going to Rome by the Kings fauour & cōmendatiō , to pleade his cause before Pope Boniface , could not preuaile , nor yet the Prior , but that the said Pope gaue the Bishopricke of Ely to the Bishop of Norwich , and the Bishopricke of Norwich to the Prior , and the Arch-deaconry of Canterbury to the Kings Chancellour . 16. Moreouer in the yeare 1305. when Pope Clement the fifth a French-man , borne in the Diocese of Burdeaux , was made Pope , and came into France in person , first of all others translating the Sea of Rome to Auinion , where it continued seauenty yeares , King Edward sent Embassadours vnto him , the Bishops of Lichfield and VVorcester , togeather with the Earle of Lincolne , presenting vnto him : Singula vtensiliae ( saith Mathew of VVestminster ) quibus ministraretur ei in Camera , & in mensa , omnia ex auro purissimo . All necessary plate for the seruice of his chamber , and table of most pure gold . And at the same time he sent two new Bishops elected for Yorke , and London , to be confirmed by him : Quos dimisit ad propria cons●●●●●tos : ( saith our Authour ) whome the said Pope Clement sent home againe with their confirmation . And finally when not long after , the King fell out with the forsaid Archbishop of Canterbury Robert VVinchelsey , for that he had shewed himself againe not so forward to follow his will in all things : Dictum Robertum Cantuariensem ( saith VValsingham ) apud Dominum Papam accusauit Rex Anglia . The King of England did accuse the said Robert Archbishop of Canterbury , vnto Pope Clement the fifth , that he was combyned with his enemyes , &c. for the which the said Archbishop was cited to appeare before the Pope , and suspended from the execution of his office , quousque de sibi impositis legitimè se purgaret : vntill he should lawfully purge himselfe , of the imputations layd against him by the King. Whereby we see what authority this King did acknowledge to be in the Pope and Sea of Rome . 17. We read also , that when in the yeare 1299. King Edward was passed ouer with a great army into Flanders , and did destroy that Countrey by fire and sword , Pope Boniface sent two Cardinall-Legates to entreat him , that he would be content to make truce for two yeares , to the intent that peace in the meane time might be concluded , adding further-more saith our Author : paenam excommunicationis , & interdicti terrarum suarum : the payne of excommunication and Interdict of his countreys , if he yeelded not therevnto : Sed Rex perpendens , &c. consensit in treguas indictas ( saith he ) the King considering well all circumstances , &c. did consent vnto the truce appointed by the Pope . And wheras the next yeare after , by other messengers sent vnto him in Canterb. the said Pope Boniface desired him to put at liberty Iohn King of Scotland , which he had in hold , assuring him that the King of England should le●se nothing by this : Eorum petitioni Rex condescendens , respondit , se ipsum loannem , tanquam seductorem , falsum , & periurum ad Papam missurum . The King condescending to their petition , made answere , that he would send the said Iohn , as a false , & periured deceauer , vnto the Pope to be punished by him . And so he did , and they caried him into France with them . 18. And when afterward in the yeare 1301. King Edward was busily attent to his warrs in Scotland , and Pope Boniface enformed by the grieuous complaints of the Scottish-men , that K. Edward did them iniury , wrote and gaue in commission to the Archbishop of Canterbury , by an expresse messenger named Humbert , to goe vnto the King , and will him to desiste , and to remit the iustice of the matter to be examined and tryed by the Sea Apostolicke ; anyd though the said King for the present , tooke the matter very grieuously , and sware that he would prosecute his said enterprize to the vttermost : yet a little while after in the same yeare , he sent the Earle of Lincolne , and Syr Hugh Spencer to the said Sea Apostolicke , to shew the right of his cause , and what iniuries he had receaued at the Scots hands : Iusuper & Dominum Papam deprecarentur , ne mendacij fabricatoribus sinum aperiret : And that moreouer they should beseech the Pope , that he would not open his bosome ( of beliefe ) vnto the Scottish-men that deuised lyes ; wherevnto the Pope hearkening , wished notwithstanding that the King for his cause would giue the truce , for a tyme , by him assigned , wherevnto the King yeelded . 19. And when in the yeare following the said Pope Bonifacius vpon instance of the said Scottish-men , wrote more earnestly to K. Edward in this affayre , alleadging that Scotland was in the protection of the Sea Apostolicke , yea and that it apperteyned also to the temporal right of the Church ( by submission belike of the Prince and inhabitants thereof at that tyme made ) the King gathering a Parlament at Lincolne , determined therin first to write himself to the Pope about this matter , and then that the lay-nobility and people should write another letter somewhat more earnestly to the same effect . The Kings letter began thus : Sanctissimo in Christo Patri , Domino Bonifacio , diuina prouidentia Sancta Romanae , & vniuersalis Ecclesiae summo Pontifici : Edwardus Dei gratia , Rex Angliae salutem & deuota pedum oscula beatorum . To the most holy father in Christ Boniface , by Gods prouidence supreme Bishop of the holy Romane , and vniuersall Church : Edward by the grace of God , King of England sendeth greeting and the deuout kissing of his blessed feete . By which title we may see , in what estimation he held the Pope at that day : & albeit in that letter he doth protest , that he doth not send this his iustification for his pretence to Scotland , in forme of iudgement , to haue it tryed by the Sea Apostolicke , as making any doubte therof , but only to enforme his Holines conscience : ( which he doth very largely , beginning from the comming of Brutus himself into England ) yet doth he conclude beseeching him , not to beleeue the informations of his aduersaryes , and emulators : Sed Statum nostrum & iura nostra Regia supradicta habere velitis , si placet , paternis affectibus commendata . That it may please you to haue our State and Kingly right before laid downe , recommended to your fatherly affection . 20. But the Earles and Barons , and lay nobility of the land , that wrote a seuerall letter to the Pope , as before hath byn said , were more earnest in defence of the Kings title , saying : Manu tenebimus cum toto posse , totisque viribus , &c. We will hold and defend the same , with all our power and forces , nor will we permit our King , though he would , to leaue of this title . Quocirca Sanctitati Vestrae reuerenter & humiliter supplicamus , &c. Wherefore we doe reuerently , and humbly make supplication to your Holines , that you will defend our said King , that is a deuout sonne of the Catholicke Romane Church , as also his rightes , libertyes , customes , and lawes , and permit him to continew therin without diminution , or molestation , &c. Giuen at Lincolne 1301. 21. And by all this now , we may perceaue the state of things in our countrey at that time , as also the sense and iudgement of K. Edward , and his realme about this our controuersie of spiritual , and Ecclesiasticall authority . And that if this King did vse sometymes , some rigorous dealing towards the Clergy , it was not for that he doubted of their spirituall authority , or esteemed the same to be in himself ; but partly vpon his forsaid necessity of warre , and partly for the emulation conceaued against them , by the laity for their wealth , and other such causes . And as for the lawes which he made in their preiudice , as that of Mort-main , wherby is prohibited that any thing shall passe ad manum mortuam : that is to say , to any of their communityes that pay not tribute to the King , without the Kings speciall licence , & some other lawes in like manner for restraint ( as it seemed ) of their externall iurisdiction , in certaine affaires ; it proceeded of the same emulation , and complaints of the subiects , begun in the time of King Henry the third , as you haue heard , and continued in this mans dayes , as also in the dayes of diuers of his succesors . But this is nothing to our question in hand , though M. Attorney hath nothing else but such matter as this , as presently you shall see : for now shall we passe to his obiections vnder this King , which are foure of very small moment , as by handling will appeare . The Attorney . In the raigne of K. Edward the first , a subiect brought in a Bull of excommunication , against another subiect of this Realme , and published it to the Lord Treasurer of England , and ●his was by the auncient common-law of England adiudged treason against the King , his Crowne , and dignity , for the which the offender should haue byn drawne , and hanged , but at the great instance of the Chancellour and Treasurer , he was only abiured the Realme for euer . The Catholicke Deuine . 22. This case related out of Brookes Reporte ( if so it be there , for I haue not the booke ) is but a particular case , and shewed only de facto , and not de iure : whereas M. Attorneys booke notwithstanding is intituled De iure , as often I haue , and must still put him in mynd . True it is , that he noteth here in the margent , that this was done by the Common-law of England , before any Statute made . But what reason can he bring , or any man imagine , why we should beleeue this , to wit , that this fact of bringing in a Bull of excommunication from Rome , against a subiect in those dayes , should be adiudged treason by the auncient Common-law of England . For a man may demaund , what is that Cōmon-law , or auncient Cōmon-law , not made by Statute , nor introduced by any common custome that can be proued ? How was it made ? By whome ? where ? at what time ? vpon what occasion ? For to auouch a Common-law , and auncient common-law without beginning , author , cause , occasion , or recorde of the introduction therof , is a strange Metaphysicall contemplation ; for that lawes doe not growe vp without beginning , but must needs be made or admitted by some Prince or people . And whereas we haue shewed from time to time , that all our English Princes & people , haue byn Catholicks from their first conuersion , vnto this Kings time , and vniforme also in this point of acknowledging the spirituall iurisdiction of the Sea of Rome , and nothing more ordinary among them , then censures , and excommunications from Rome , when necessity seemed to require ; how could this auncient common-law come in vre among them , yea , and be auncient in K. Edward the first his tyme , contrary to the grounds , and practise of the religion then in vse and euer before , and no mention euer made therof in all antiquity , till ●ow by M. Attorney , and that only in the ayre , as you see ? 23. Moreouer we read in Mathew of VVestminster , that when this King Edward was in his most heat against the Clergy , for denying him the halfe of their rents and goods , as before hath byn said , which they did vpon the prohibition of Pope Bonifacius , he fearing least some men might bring in an excōmunication against himself , and them of the Clergy that yelded to pay the same , and therby had bought his protection againe ; he only forbad : Subpaena incarcerationis , ne quis contra ipsum Regem , & ces qui iampridem suam protectionem quaesiêrant , excommunicationis sententiam promulgaret , prouocatione sacta pro se ad Romanam Curiam , & pro ipsis . He prohibited vnder paine of imprisonment , that no man should publish my sentence of excommunication against the King himself , or those that had newly sought his protection ; yea his Maiesty made a prouocation , or appeale also , as well for himselfe , as for them that stood on his side , to the Courte of Rome . So as if the King , by speciall decree of his owne , appointed only the paine of imprisonment , for such as should publish any sentence of excommunication against himself , & for himself also appealed to Rome ; it is not likely , that the auncient Common-lawes of England had made it treason before , against the King , his crowne , and dignity , to publish an excommunication against a subiect , that was a thing most vsuall in those dayes . 24. Well , it may be that for repressing the vnquiet spiritts of some particular subiects ( that vpon light occasions and false suggestions , would procure Bulls of excommunication from Rome ) some order might be taken at that tyme , for seuere punishment of them , that rashly without shewing the same to Iudges appointed for that purpose , should publish the said Bulls in England , as we see also at this d●y to be obserued in Spaine , Naples , Sicily , France , and other Catholike Realmes , where no man may publish such things , without a view and Placet of the Magistrate appointed to that effect ; and this not for denying , or restrayning the said authority of the Sea Apostolicke , but for keeping peace , and orderly proceeding among subiects , as is pretended , and for better enforming his Holines , if false suggestions haue byn giuen . And that some like order might be at this time in England , may appeere in parte , by another obiection , which M. Attorney hath afterward in the life of K. Edward the 3. saying : that in an attachement vpon a prohibitiō , the defendant pleading the Popes Bull of excōmunication of the plaintiffe ; the Iudges demaunded of the defendāt , if he had not the certificate of some Bishop within the realme , testifying the excōmunicatiō , &c. Wherby it may appeare , that priuate men were obliged to shew their Bulls vnto some Bishop before they published the same . 25. But howsoeuer this be , it is euident by this very Reporte of M. Attorneys text of Common-law cited by himself out of the one and thirtith yeare of King Edward the third ( which was many yeares after this other case ) that the bringing in , or seruing of a Bull of excommunication against a particular subiect , was not held for treason in those dayes . Neither did the iudges , make any such inference , which is like they would haue done , if it had byn treason against the King , his Crowne , and dignity , by the ancient Common-lawes of England in the tyme of K. Edward the first , aboue fifty yeares before the later case fell out . And thus much for law ; though it might be , that de facto in those dayes of suspition , when K. Edward feared excommunication , as you haue heard , some man , ad terrorem , might be so sentenced by some chief Iusticer , or Iudge , as would be ready to pleasure the King in all things , as most of them were , though yet the party were not executed , as here is confessed ; or else that there was some other particular aggrauant circumstance in this facte , which here is not set downe , though it may be also , that the Reader shall find somewhat therof in M. Brookes booke if he looke it ouer , out of whome this obiection without all circumstance is so barely cited . And thus much of this first instance : Now let vs contemplate the second , as wise ( no doubt ) as the former . The Attorney . The said King Edward the first presented his Clerke to a benefice , within the prouince of Yorke , who was refused by the Archbishop for that the Pope by way of prouision , had conferred it on another . The King thervpon brought a Quare non admisit . The Archbishop pleaded that the Bishop of Rome had long time before prouided to the same Church , as one , hauing supreme authority in that case , and that he durst not , nor had power to put him out , which was by the Popes Bull in possession . For which his high , contempt against the King , his Crowne and dignity , in refusing to execute his Soueraignes commaundement , fearing to doe it against the Popes prouision , by iudgement of the Common-law , the lands of his whole Bishopricke were seased into the Kings handes , and lost during his life , which iudgement was before any Statute , or Act of Parlament was made in that case . And there it is said that for the like offence , the Archbishop of Canterbury had byn in worse case , by the iudgement of the Sages of the law , then to be punished for a contempt , if the King had not extended grace and fauour to him . The Catholicke Deuine . 26. Here againe is another case or two de facto , wherof M. Attorney wil needs inferre de iure . The Archbishop of Yorke his lands , ( saith he ) were seased by the King , and lost during his life , for that he admitted not to a benefice , within his Diocesse , a Clerke presented by the King , whereas the same benefice had an incumbent before put in by the Popes prouision , according to the custome of those dayes , which incumbent the said Archbishop pleaded , that he could not put out : and for this high contempt against the King , his crowne , and dignity , in refusing to execute his soueraignes commaundement ( saith M. Attorney ) by iudgement of the Common-law , he lost the landes of his whole Bishopricke ; But here I would aske M. Attorney , what high contempt could this be against the King , his crowne , and dignity , if the Archbishop pleaded that he could not doe it , eyther in right , or in power ? Not in right , for that nothing was more receaued at that tyme in England , then for the Bishop of Rome to prouide certayne benefices in England , and not only benefices , but also Bishopricks , and Archbishopricks , as before in the life of this King , and his ancestours hath byn declared . And as for power , no maruaile if the Archbishop durst not vse violence in those dayes , against the Popes prouisions , wherby he might incurre excommunication ; for so much as the King himself so greatly respected the same , and made such diligent premunition , least my such excommunication should come against him , as in the answere to the former instance hath byn declared . 17. And besides this , if the Archbishop did put the matter in plea to be trayed , and to the Kings writt of Quare non admisit , did yeelde so reasonable a cause , as is here touched , & that the King himself had admitted diuers Bishops and Archbishops by like prouision of Popes : how , and with what reason can M. Attorney call this answere of the Archbishop , so high a contempt against the King , his crowne , and dignitie ? Or how could the Common-law condemne the same with so great a punishment ? And still I must demaund what is this Common-law ? by whome was it made ? how came it in ? where is it founded , either in reason , vse , consent of the people , or authority of law-giuers ? For if it consist in none of these , but only in the particular will and iudgement of the Prince himself , neuer so passionate , and in the approbation & execution of these Sages , which here M. Attorney mentioneth ; then any thing that displeased the said Prince , may be called high contempt against his person , crowne , and dignity . And so may be iustified all the most passionate actions , not only of this King Edward before recited , but of all other Kings whosoeuer . And by the same meanes M. Attorney maketh his auncient Cōmon-law , ( which often he calleth our birth-right , and best birth-right ) to be nothing else in effect , but the Princes pleasure frō time to time , and the execution of his Sages , which commonly in those auncient times ( for I will speake nothing of our dayes ) were to wise and Sage , to withstand the Princes will in any thing . 28. Sure I am , that in this particular fact of seasing Bishops lands and temporalityes , vpon any offence or displeasure taken by the King ; as it hath byn vsed by some English Princes in their anger , so hath it bin condemned also in diuers Parlaments , lawes , and Statutes : as in the first yeare of King Edward the third where it is thus expressed . Because before this time , in the time of King Edward , Father to the King that now is , he by euill Counsellours , caused to be seased into his handes , the temporalty of diuers Bishoppes , with their goods , and cattell &c. The King willeth , and graunteth that from hence forth it be not done &c. And againe in the 14. yeare of the same raigne : VVe will and graunt , for vs , and for our heires , that from henceforth , we shall not take , nor doe to be taken into our handes , the temporalities of Archbishops , Bishops , Abbot &c. without a true , and iust cause , according to the law of the land , &c. 29. And to the end that M. Attorney may not say , that this case of his is excepted ; it followeth in an other Statute in the 25. yeare of the same King , saying : VVhereas the temporalities of Archbishops and Bishops , haue beene oftentimes taken into the Kings hand , for contempt done to him vpon writts of Quare non admisit , and for diuers other causes &c. The King willeth and graunteth in the said Parlament , that all Iustices shall from henceforth receaue for the contempt so iudged , reasonable fyne of the party so condemned , according to the quantity of the trespasse , and after the quality of the contempt , &c. Which last words may be thought to be added , for that the King had right to present to diuers benefices at that tyme , as particular patrone therof ex iure patronatus , for that the said benefices were fouuded , or erected by himself , or his auncestors : and in those cases , the Bishops not admitting such Clerkes , as he presented , might doe some iniury or trespasse against him , and therin shew contempt , worthy some fyne , or for-faite , which the law doth here appoint ; especially for so much , as it is be ore recorded that Pope Innocentius the 4. presently vpon the first Councell of Lyons , wrote , as you haue heard in the life of K. Henry the third , that he would not let by his prouision , the right of any patrone in presenting to any benefice , wherof he had the aduowson , or Ius patronatus . 30. And as for the other example alleadged heere by M. Attorney , for strengthning his instance , of the Archbishop of Canterbury , saying : that for the like offence the Archbishop of Canterbury had byn in worse case , by the iudgement of the Sages of the law , then to be punished for a contempte , if the King had not extended grace , and fauour to him . If he vnderstand the displeasure taken against Archbishop VVinchelsey before mentioned , by K. Edward , for resisting his demaund of the one halfe of all Ecclesiasticall rents , for which before we haue heard out of Mathew of VVestminster , that all his lands and goods were seased into the Kings hands : you haue heard also , how the same King afterward repented both that , and other like facts of his , and asked pardon publikly with teares . But if he meane the other offence againe after this , when he accused the said Archbishop VVinchelsey to the Pope , and caused him to be called to Rome , and to be suspended from his office , as before we haue declared : then doth this case make directly against M. Attorneys conclusion . For that the King acknowledged the Pope to be a superiour Iudge , ouer English Bishops aboue himself ; and then was the iudgement of those Sages named by M. Attorney , that thought him so deepely to haue offended in acknowledging the Popes authority , farre from the purpose . And howsoeuer it were , cleere it is , that the King seased only vpon temporalityes of the Bishops , and tooke not vpon him to depriue them of their spirituall iurisdictions , as Queene Elizabeth did , when shee fell out with M. Grindall her Primate and Archbishop of Canterbury whome she by her Ecclesiasticall authority depriued of his iurisdiction , and appointed Commissaryes of her owne in diuers Countryes , to execute the same iurisdiction as immediate from her self , which this K. Edward did not , nor any of his Predecessors or Successours , vntil K. Henry the 8. and therby shewed , that they pretended nothing of their spirituall authority : & so this example , or instance of seasing vpon tēporalties , either by right or wrong , proueth nothing for M. Attorney his purpose . Let vs passe then to his 3. instāce . The Attorney . Concerning men twise marryed ( called Bigami ) whome the Bishop of Rome by a Constitution made at the Councelll of L●ons hath excluded from all priuiledge of Clergy : whervpon certeyne ●relates ( when such persons haue byn attainted for fello●s ) haue prayed , for to haue them deliuered as Clerkes , which were made Bigami before the same constitution It is agreed and declared before the King , and his Counsell , that the same cōstitution shal be vnderstood in this wise : that whether they were Bigami before the same constitution or after , they shall not from henceforth be deliuered to the Prelates , but iustice shal be executed vpon them , as vpon other lay people . The Catholicke Deuine . 31. About this instance , taken out of a Statute made in the 4. yeare of K. Edward the first , it is first to be noted : that albeit , mention be made heere only of the late constitution of the Councell of Lyons vnder Pope Gregorie the tenth concerning Bigamies , or those that are twise married ; yet is the thing it self of more antiquity in the Catholicke Church , as may appeare throughout the whole title De Bigamis non ordinandis , in the first booke of Decretalls , that is to say , that such as haue byn twise married may not take holy orders . But yet for that there was a doubt , whether such men hauing primam tonsuram , or minores ordines , and therby made Clerkes , might enioy the priuiledges of Clergy-men , for their persons , and goods , suites in law , and the like , which could not be decided but by Ecclesiasticall Iudges : this controuersie ( I say ) which included many braunches & consequences , especially for England , was defined in the said Councell of Lyons , and the definitiue sentence , or decision was in these words : Begamos omni priuilegio Clericali declaramus esse nudatos , & corrections forisae cidaris addictos , consuetudine contraria non obstante : ipsis quoque sub anathe mate prohibemus deferre tonsuram vel habitum Clericalem . We doe declare , that all such as haue byn twise marryed , are depriued of all priuiledge of Clergy-men , & are subiect to the correction of the temporall Magistrate , notwithstanding any custome to the contrary : And we doe forbidd them also vnder paine of excommunication , that they doe not beare Ecclesiasticall tonsure , nor Priestly habit or apparell of Clergy-men . 32. Which decision or declaration of the said generall Councell coming forth , presently there arose a doubt in England , whether such Bigamies , as had borne that attyre , and tonsure before that tyme , and were now in present necessity , to vse the priuiledge of the Clergy , for deliuering themselues out of the secular iustice hand , ought to haue the same or no ; for that it might be presumed , that the Councell meant only of these Bigamyes , that should beare the habit afterward . Vnto which opinion , as to the more pious and pittifull , the Bishops inclining , demaunded to haue deliuered vnto them , as Clerkes , all such fellons , as had bin Clerkes or taken for Clerkes before the Councell . But the King , and his Counsell were of an other opinion , to wit , that Pope Gregory his decision was in generall tearmes , and excepted none , neyther before , nor after , and thereby vnderstood and meant to exclude all . 33. This is the case , and this is the decision thereof . And now let the discreet Reader iudge , whether this example maketh more for M. Attorneys purpose , or against him ; for that here the King & his Counsell doe stand more strictly to the obseruaunce of the Popes decree as it lyeth , then those Bishops themselues , ( who would haue had these Bigamyes deliuered vnto them as Clerkes ) and therefore vrge to haue it punctually and exactly obserued . And for that men of reason might meruaile , why M. Attorney , a man of such accompt in the law , hath brought in such an instance , so impertinent to his purpose , he seeketh to remedy the matter , by this note in the margent : Obserue ( saith he ) how the King by the aduise of his Counsell , expounded how the said Councell of Lyon should be vnderstood , and in what sense it should be receaued , and allowed heere . And why is all this diligent commentary thinke you ? Forsooth to the end , that you may imagine , that the King and his Counsell tooke themselues to be aboue the Pope , and generall Councell of Lyons , for that they tooke vpon them to expound , & admit the said Councells decree . By which argument M. Attorney , may proue also , that Archbishop Peckam of Canterbury calling a Sinod ( as before you haue heard ) of his Bishops Suffragans , and other Prelates , for receauing , publishing , and obseruing the said decrees of the same Pope and Councell , the very next yeare after it was held , did thinke themselues to be aboue the said Pope and Councell , and to haue authority ouer them , for that they receaued , allowed , and expounded the same decrees . And doth not euery man see the folly of this kind of reasoning ? 34. And yet you must note further , that for better bringing in of this argument , M. Attorney , straineth the text extremely in three or foure things , to make place for this his note . For whereas in the latin text of the Statute ( for K. Edward the first put forth in latin , and so is it extant vntill this day ) it is said : Quidam Praelati s●●quam Clericos exigerunt sibi liberandos , &c. Certaine Prelates did require , or exact , to haue such Bigamies deliuered freely vnto them as Clerkes , which were made Bigannies before the said constitution ; M. Attorney saith : Certaine Prelates haue prayed to haue them deliuered : whereas betwene exigere and rogare , to exacte , and pray , is a great difference in this case . 35. And againe where it is written in latin : Concordatum est & declaratum , coram Rege & Consilio suo , quod constitutio illa intelligenda fit , quod siuè effecti fuerunt Bigami ante praedictam constitutionem , siuè post , de catero non liberentur Praelatis , imò fiat de ijs iustitia sicut de Laicis : M. Attorney to aggrauate the Kings accorde and declaration , ouer that of the generall Councell , putterh it downe thus : It is agreed and declared , before the King and his Counsell , that the same constitution shal be vnderstood in this wise . Whereas the Latin speaketh in the present tense , It is to be vnderstood , nor hath it the words , in this wise . And where M. Attorney saith : They shall not from hence forth be deliuered , but iustice shall be executed vpon them , as vpon other lay men : those shalls b● not in the Latin , but rather that they may , or must not be deliuered vnto Prelates , but that iustice be done vpon them , as vpon lay men . So that herby you see the labour that M. Attorney taketh to draw a little water to his mill , and yet that nothing commeth but puddle , that driueth not but choaketh the same . Let vs see his fourth instance , whether it be of any more weight or moment than the rest . The Attorney . In an acte made at the Parlament holden at Carleile in the 25. yeare of the said King Edward the first , It is declared , that the holy Church of England was founded in the state of Prelacy , within the Realme of England , by the King and his progenitors , &c. For them to informe the people in the law of God , and to keepe hospitality , giue almes , and doe other workes of charity , &c. And the said Kings in tymes past , were wont to haue their aduise , & counsaile for the safe-guarde of the Realme , when they had need of such Prelates and Clerkes so aduaunced . The Bishop of Rome vsurping the signories of such benefices ; did giue , & graunt the same benefices to Aliens , which did neuer dwell in England , and to Cardinalls , which might not dwell here , &c. in adnullation of the state of the holy Church of England , desherison of the King , Earles , Barons , and other nobles of the Realme , and in offence , and destruction of the lawes , & rights of this Realme , and against the good disposition , and will of the first founders : It was enacted by the King , by assent of all the Lords , & Communalty in full Parlament ; that the said oppressions , grieuances , and dammage in this Realme , from thence forth should not be suffered , as more at large appeareth by this Act. The Catholike Deuine . 36. This Parlament of Carliele which M. Attorney ascribeth to the 25. yeare of King Edwardes raigne , both in his latin and English columns , I doe imagine to be an error , in place of the 35. for that I fynde no Parlament held vpon the fiue and twentith , in which yeare King Edward was partely in Scotland , and partely in Flanders , and there kept his Christmasse in the City of Gaunt . But vpon the 35. yeare , which was the last of King Edwardes raigne , there was a Parlament helde at Carliel vpon the Octaues of S. Hilary . In which Parlament there was such a declaration , and complaint made , as here it set downe : that the Bishopricks and benefices being often giuen to strangers by the Popes prouisions , who residing not in England , nor keeping hospitality , nor being able to preach , or teach , for that they wanted the English language , the Church of England , and poore people therof did suffer much inconuenience therby , and for that the Bishopricks and Prelacyes of the said Church , were founded ordinarily by Kings and Princes of the said land , they said it was reason , that they , as Patrones , should present English men to the same . 37. And these complaints which now we haue heard , began in diuerse former Kings dayes , especially vnder King Henry the third , and were continued vnder this man , and his Successours ; but most of all vrged vnder King Edward the third , and King Richard the second , by whome greater restraints were made , vntill the Sea Apostolicke and our Kings came to a certaine forme of agreement , as in other countreys and Kingdomes also they did , though in different sortes , how benefices should be prouided , to wit , by election of the Deane & Chapter in some , and by Kings and Princes nominations in others , as also by prouisions of Bishops in lesser preferments : Wherein notwithstanding the said Sea Apostolicke retained diuers gifts to it self , as in sundry countryes is seene at this day , by vse and practice . 38. Well then the States of England at this time said & decreed , that the abuses of bestowing English benefices vpon strangers , were not to be suffered ; especially such as had byn newly brought in by one VVilliam Testaw , sent thither out of France by Pope Clement the fifth , for so testifyeth Mathew VVestminster that was then liuing , whose words are these : The King held a Parlament at Carliele , wherein greater complains , then euer before , were made of the oppression of Churches and Monasteries , and many extorsions vsed by one Maister VVilliam Testaw the Popes Clerke , to whome commaundement was giuen by the assent of the Earles and Barons , that he should not vse like extorsion for the tyme to come . And moreouer it was ordeyned that for obteyning remedy , certaine messengers there assigned should be sent to the Pope . And the very self-same thing writeth Thomas VValsingam . And this is all the remedy , mentioned by these men to haue byn taken at that tyme , to wit , supplication to the Pope himself , that he would put thervnto conuenient redresse , which well declareth the respect borne to that Sea. 39. And albeit this Statute here mentioned by M. Attorney may be supposed also to haue passed at that tyme ; yet may it appeare by the words of other Statutes after , in the tyme of King Edward the third , that the same was not put in vre vntill his dayes , as in his life we shall shew more particularly . And what maketh all this now for M. Attorney ? or what rather doth it not make against him ? For here the whole Parlament of Carliele acknowledginge the Popes spirituall authority , as appeareth by their manner of writing vnto him , complained of certaine abuses , or excesses , streching themselues in a certaine sorte , as they pretended , to temporall commodityes , and sought remedy therof from himself . And can any thing be more cleere against M. Attorney then this ? Surely at the barre , he durst not for his credits sake pleade in this manner , & much lesse should he doe it in a booke , wherin the speaches remaine longer to the view of the reader , then doe fleeting words to the hearer at the barre . But inough of this . M. Attorney pleadeth well where he hath truth and substance for him ; in this cause both doe faile him : and what then can he doe , but cast shaddowes , as here you see that he doth ? OF KING EDVVARD THE SECOND , VVhich vvas the tenth King after the Conquest . §. 11. 40. Much lesse is needfull to be said of this King , then of the former , both for that his raigne was shorter , and much more troublesome in temporall affaires , which gaue lesse place to spirituall : and now also our Authors , that were wonte to note more diligently such matters , doe in great parte faile vs. For that Mathew of VVestminster endeth with King Edward the first , as the other Mathew Paris before him , did with this mans father K. Henry the third ; and Roger Houeden before him againe with K. Iohn ; and VVilliam Nubergensis & Petrus Blesensis before them , with K. Richard ● & VVilliam of Malmesbury , Henry Huntington , as also Florentius VVigorniensis with his continuance , made an end of their historyes partly vnder K. Stephen , and partly vnder K. Henry the first : so as now downe-ward from this King Edward the second , we shall only haue Raynulph of Chester , and Thomas VValsingam for the most ancient writers of this time that doth ensue , who yet are nothing so copious or diligent , as diuers of the former . 41. This Edward therefore second of that name , and surnamed of Carnaruan , for that he was borne in that towne of VVales , when his Father lay with an army in those partes , to reduce that countrey to subiection , as he did , who being of the age of twenty three yeares , when his father dyed vpon the borders of Scotland in the yeare 1307. & receauing two speciall things in charge ( saith VValsingam ) from his Father , vnder paine of his curse : The first , that the should prosecute presently and end the enterprize began against Scotland , before he went to London or procured to be crowned : the second that he should not touche or waste , but send to the holy land , a certaine summe of money , which his said Father had layed togeather for the assistance of that warr , to the which he had purposed to goe himself in person , if he had liued , ( Wherevnto Iohn Stow addeth a thirde in these wordes : His father charged him on his curse , that he should not presume to call home Pierce of Gaueston , by common decree banished , without common consent &c. ) Notwithstanding all these admonitions and threats , this careles young Prince performed no one thing of the three , but got himself presently into France , and there was married in Bullen , vnto Lady Isabell , only daughter of Philip the fourth , surnamed the faire , King of France , and in that marriage , and triumphe therof , spent the foresaid money , which prospered afterwarde accordingly : for that this marriage and wife was the cause and occasion not only of his ouerthrow , and miserable ruine , but of all the warrs in like manner , that ensued for many yeares after , betwene France & England . For that shee being the only daughter and heire , as hath byn said , to the King of France , her sonne Edward the third , in her title began first the said warrs , which brought finally the losse , not only of that which was gotten of new , but of all the rest , that we had before in France , and shee taking a deepe disgust with her said husband for his disordinate affection to Pierce Gaueston ( whome presently after his fathers death he recalled from banishment ) the two Spencers and others misliked by her , and the greater parte of the Realme : shee finally after many troubles , warrs , insurrections , and great store of Noble-men cut of and destroyed on both partes , preuailed against the said King her husband ; and hauing on her side the authority of her young sonne the Prince , and all his followers , did put downe the said King , depriued him of his crowne , sett vp her young sonne in his place , committed the other to prison , where soone after he was pitifully murthered . And these are the varietyes of worldly fortunes , these the frailtyes and vncerteintyes of earthly Greatnes ; And where King Edward placed all his pleasure , from the same spring issued forth the beginning and progresse of all his miserie . 42. But as for his religion and iudgement therein , notwithstanding all other his errours in life and behauiour , that it was constantly Catholicke , according to that which he had receaued and inherited from his Ancestours , no doubt can be made at all . For that the whole State of his realme , touching Ecclesiasticall affaires , remained as he found it , and as it had continued in the tymes of his progenitours ; and that the Bishops of Rome , had generall authority ouer England in his dayes , not only in meere spirituall iurisdiction : ( which all the Bishops of England professed to receaue from him ) but also in externall disposing , when he would , of Bishoprickes and other Prelacies , notwithstanding all the complaints made in his Fathers , and Grand-fathers tymes about that matter , may be made euident by many examples . 43. For first we reade that in the yeare 1311. when Pope Clement the fifth in a Councell at Vienna in France , vpon many graue and vrgent causes , as was pretended & alleadged , did put downe the whole order of knights called Templarij ( for that their first institution was , to haue care to defend the Temple of Ierusalem against infidells ) and did appoint their lands ( which were many and great ) to be giuen to an other newer order which then begun , named Hospitalary , for that they had the care of the hospitals , wherein Pilgrims were receaued ; ( which now are the knights of S. Iohn of Malta ) & albeit this matter were of such importance and consequence , for that the persons were many , and of nobility , and their possessions great , as hath byn said : yet was that Decree obeyed in England without resistance , and the persons depriued , and put to perpetuall pennance in a Councell at London anno 1311. and their said lands and goods giuen to the other sorte of knights , and confirmed by Parlament in London 13. yeares after , to wit , in the yeare of Christ 1324. which was the 17. of King Edwards raigne , as VValsingam and others doe testifie , which well declareth what the Popes authority was at that day in England . 44. Againe we reade that in the yeare 1319. which was the 12. of this Kings raigne , great warre being betwene England & Scotland , King Edward had procured that Pope Iohn the 22. should send two Cardinall-Legates into England , to examine the matter how it stood , and to punish by Ecclesiasticall Censures , that party , that should be found stubborne and repugnant to reason : Wher vpon finally , hauing heard both sides , and finding Robert Bruse King of Scotland , to haue offered iniuryes to the King of England , they pronounced sentence of excommunication against him , and put the whole Kingdome vnder interdict : For releasing wherof the said King Robert , and the State of Scotland 4. yeares after , sent a solemn embassage to the Pope , to wit , the Bishop of Glasco & Earle of Murray , which being vnderstood by King Edward , he sent also a messenger on his behalfe , to contradicte the same . And albeit him Embassadour ( saith our Story ) in dignity were but a simple Priest , yet so many reasons , and accusations he alleadged against them● or K. Edward and his c●u●e as the Scottish Embassadours ●●ld obteyne no release at that time . And this for the Popes au●●●●●●y in those dayes for publicke affaires . 45. But as for priuate matters of England , especially the disposing of Bishoprickes , confirmation , & inuestitures of all Bishops , 〈◊〉 notorious , and might be declared by infinite examples , that ● remained now , as before vnder all other Catholicke Princes . For among other points we reade , that when in the yeare of Christ 1312. Robert VVinchelsey Archbishop of Canterbury dyed , the Monkes of that place according to the custome , chose by the liking and procuration of the King , one Thomas Cobham , a man of eminent learning and vertue , who going to Auinion in France , where Pope Clement the fifth lay at that tyme , to receaue his confirmation and inuestiture , as the manner was in those dayes , the said Pope told him , that long before in the other Archbishops life , he had reserued the collation of that Archbishopricke to himself , for that tyme , and therevpon pronounced that election to be voyde , adding further this cōsideration ; that England being ●● that day in great troubles and disgust , for that many Lords & Barons had shewed their mislike against the King , and the King against them : it was needfull to haue in that place of Canterbury , a man of great credit and experience in such affaires ; and therefore named one VVilliam Reynoldes Bishop of VVorcester , and Chancellour of the Realme at that day , and presently sent him both his inuestiture , and pall ; wherewith the King and Queene being greatly contented , were present at his consecration , and so he liued and gouerned 19. yeares after in that Sea , with great commendation . So as we see that the restraint of Papall prouisions made at Carliele vnder this mans father was not yet put in practice . 46. And the like reseruatiō we read that Pope Iohn the 22. made of the Bishopricke of VVinchester afterward in the yeare 1320. and therby did disanull the election made by the Monkes of that place , with consent of the King , and placed another of his owne choice , which the King also after some time admitted ; So as this was very ordinary in those dayes . We reade likewise that in the yeare 1324. a Parlament being called at London , and King Edward growing now , by euill counsaile of the Spencers and others , into great disorder , he caused one Adam Bishop of Hereford , that fauoured not his proceedings , to be arrested of treason , & brought forth publickely to be tryed , laying to his charge that he had ●●ceaued , and fauoured diuerse of those Barons , which had taken armes against him . But the forsaid Archbishop of Canterbury , and his brethren Bishops seeing this disorder , made first humble supplication to the King , that he might be tryed according to his place & degree , and that not preuayling , they required the same by law , according to the liberties and priuiledges of the Church , confirmed by Magna charta , & other lawes of the Realme . Whervpon he was deliuered to the custody of the said Archbishop of Canterbury : but afterward he being called for againe , by the instigation of such as were his enemyes , and carryed to the barre , the said Archbishop of Canterbury , and the other of Yorke , with ten other Bishops went thither in iudiciall māner , with their crosses borne before them , commaunding vnder paine of excommunication , that no man should stay him , or lay hands on him , and so tooke him away to the Archbishops custody againe . Whereby we may see , in what vigour Ecclesiasticall power was at this day in England . And albeit the King being in passion , did storme greatly thereat , and seased presently vpon all the said Bishops goods and lands , as he had done vpon those of the Bishop of Lincolne , and of others before : yet could he not deny , but that this was law & iustice , which the Bishops did , according to the Ecclesiasticall priuiledges of the Realme , whervnto the King himself , and all his ancestours in their coronations , had solemnely sworne . For breaking wherof it may be presumed , that so great a punishment fell vpon him , as soone after ensued , to the horror of the whole world , by depriuation both of his Kingdome , and life . And so much of him . Now let vs see what instance M. Attorney can draw from him to his purpose . It is but one , and thus it runneth in his owne words . The Attorney . 47. Albeit by the ordinance of Circumspectè agatis made in the 18. yere of Edward the first , and by generall allowance and vsage , the Ecclesiasticall Courtes held plea of tythes , obuentions , oblations mortuaries , redemptions of pennaunce , laying of violent hand● vpon a Clerke , defamations , &c. yet did not the Clergy thinke themselues assured , nor quiet from prohibitions purchased by subiectes , vntill that King Edward the second by his letters parents vnder the great seale , in , & by consent of Parlament , vpon the petitions of the Clergy , had graunted vnto them to haue iurisdiction in these cases . The King in a Parlament holden in the ● . yeare of his raigne , after particular answers made to their petitions , concerning the matter aboue said , doth graunt and giue his Royall assent in these words : We desiring , as much as of right we may , to prouide for the state of the Church of England , & the tranquillity and quiet of the Prelates of the said Clergy , to the honour of God , and the amendment of the State of the said Church , and of the Prelates and Clergy , ratifying and approuing all , and singular the said answers , which appeare in the said act , and all , and singular things in the said answeres conteyned ; we doe for vs , and our heires graunt , and commaund that the same be inuiolably kept for euer ; willing , and graunting for vs , and our heires , that the said Prelates , and Clergy , and their Successours for euer , doe exercise Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , in the premisses , according to the tenour of the said answere . The Catholicke Deuine . 48. If a man would aske M. Attorney in this place , why he hath brought in this instance , and what he would proue therby , I thinke verily he would be much graueled in answering , especially if we respecte his principall Conclusion , that by this and like presidence Q. Elizabeth might take vpon her supreme authority Ecclesiasticall : for that by this narration , nothing else is declared , but that a certaine abuse being crept in , that when any externall matter , seeming any way to belong to temporalityes , was handled in Ecclesiasticall Courtes , and by Ecclesiasticall Iudges , the party that feared , or suspected his owne cause , would informe the Kings Courtes , that the matter belonged to them , and therevpon would get out a prohibition from the Chauncery , to sursease in that cause , vntill it were tryed , to which Court it belonged . By which deceytfull , and malitions proceeding of some , much trouble was procured , and many causes rested indetermined , both in the one , and the other Courte : for so saith the Statute it self made in the time of King Edward the first this mans Father , in these words : VVhereas Ecclesiasticall Iudges haue oftentymes surceased , to proceed in cases moued before them , by force of the Kings writ of prohibition , &c. to the great damage of many , as the King hath byn aduertised by the grieuous complaints of his subiects , &c. For this cause many orders and Statutes were made , vnder all three Edwards for remedying of this abuse ; as for example vnder Edward the first , the foresaid Statute hath this determination : That the 〈◊〉 or chief Iustice of the King for the tyme being , if they see that the case 〈◊〉 be redressed by any writ out of the Chauncery , but that the spirituall 〈◊〉 ought to determine the matters ; that then they shall write to the Ecclesiasticall Iudges , before whome the case was first moued , to proceed therin , notwithstanding the Kings prohibition vnto them before . 49. And to like effect is this other ordination here mentioned by M. Attorney of Circumspectè agatis : wherby is ordeyned that temporall Iudges shall vse themselues circumspectly in medling with causes that belong to spirituall courtes . And to the same effect is this Statute here alleadged vnder King Edward the second , as also this other set downe in these words : They that purchase prohibition , and attachement against the Ordinaryes , of a thing that belongeth not to the lay Court , shall yeeld damages to the Ordinaryes , by the award of the Iustices . And yet further to the same effect , it was decreed by King Edward the third after this manner : That no prohibition goe out of the Chauncery , but in case where we haue the conusaunce , and of right ought to haue . 50. And finally to passe no further in this , the Statute made in the 9. yeare of this King intituled : Articuli Cleri : Articles of the Clergy , conteyning sixteene braunches , doe apperteyne to this affaire , to shew , and declare what causes doe belong to the spirituall courte , and what to the temporall , and wherof both the one and the other may take conusaunce ; and consequently in what matters , the Kings prohibition may goe forth , or not : all which is cleerly against M. Attorney his purpose . For if the temporall Prince , were properly head of the one and the other courte , and fountaine both of the one and other lawe , and iurisdiction ; this adoe needed not , but that the King might indifferently dispose of all . 51. But consider I pray you , M. Attorneys note , or commentary in the margent , wherby he would seeme to answere our former demaund , why he bringeth in this instance . By these statutes ( saith he ) the iurisdiction of the Ecclesiasticall Courtes , is allowed and warranted by consent of Parlament , in all cases wherein they haue iurisdiction : so as these lawes may be iustly called the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes , or the Ecclesiastical lawes of England . So he . And you will easily see herby , how much he delighteth himself in this new witty inuention of his owne , so often repeated by him , wherby he would make the Popes Canon-lawes , to be the King of Englands lawes , for that they are admitted and obeyed in England ● of which sylly consequence , I haue oftentymes made mention before , shewing the weakenes and incongruity therof . For that by this reason the self same Canon-lawes receaued , & admitted by all particular states of Christendome , may be said to be the peculiar lawes of euery particular state . And if this be a superiority , as M. Attorney would inferre , to admit , and allow another Princes lawes , then is euery particular state of Christendome aboue the Pope & Generall Councells , which made these lawes . Wherfore as well in this , as in all the rest , we see the weakenes of M. Attorneys cause : and so we shall passe to other Princes , that doe follow , leauing this disasterous K. Edward the second , who soone after fell into a pitifull plight of calamity , being depriued both of his Crowne , and life for his ill gouernment , and his young sonne placed in his roome , as our historyes at large doe declare . OF K. EDWARD THE THIRD , And K. Richard the second his Nephevv , and Successour : And vvhat instances or arguments M. Attorney draweth from their two raignes , which continued betweene them for seauenty yeares . CHAP. XII . THESE two are the Kings , aboue all the rest , from the beginning vnto K. Henry the 8. vnder whose gouernment , M. Attorney gathereth and layeth togeather most obiections , to proue the small respect they had , or vsed in certaine cases and occasions , and at some times , towards the Sea Apostolicke , and Ecclesiasticall power therof ; for that they made most restrictions by penall lawes , and punishments against the practice and vse therof , in certaine cases mixt , as they presumed , and conioyned with temporalityes , or affaires of the State , and so not meerly Ecclesiasticall . 2. For albeit before this , there had byn great murmurings and complaints , as you haue seen , from the tyme of K. Henry the 3. and his father King Iohn , against some parte of the exercise of the Popes authority , in bestowing benefices and Bishopricks vpon strāgers ; as also of the often reseruing the collations of the cheife to himself , and his Court , of demaunding , and graunting tithes , & contributions vpon the English Clergy , as well for his owne , as other publike necessityes : yet find we not hitherto , any expresse penall law put in vre and practice ( though mention be found of one made at Carleile vnder K. Edward the first , the 2. yeare of his raigne ) to this effect , for restrayning prouisions , and other ordinances from the Court of Rome , and the execution thereof by English subiects , vntill vnder these two Kings , Edward the 3. and Richard the 2. and not by the former , vntill after many yeares of his raigne , when by his continuall warrs with France and Scotland , his temporall necessityes and other respects drew him therevnto . And some men doe note that the lamentable ends of both these Kings ( wherof the worst seemed to some to be that of King Edward , though he died in his bed ) togeather with infinite bloudshed afterward by their successours , deuided in their owne bowells , vpon the controuersie of Lancaster and Yorke , did easily shew how vngratefull to all mighty God this breach of theirs , and violence vsed with their Mother the holy Church was , though it might seeme to them , and some others also , that it was either in temporall matters , or in Ecclesiasticall conioyned ( as hath byn said ) with temporalities ; and that besides , they were vrged therevnto by important clamours of their people , partly vpon emulation against the Clergy , and partly vpon some abuses and aggreiuances , as they pretended in their supplications and declarations to the Popes themselues about these affaires , pretending to hold still ( as no doubt they did ) their inward faith , beliefe , deuotion , and obedience to the Sea Apostolicke , though outwardly they were forced to take the way of redresse , against some excesses ; which they did . 3. And now wee haue already heard , the foresaid complaints oftentymes iterated in the liues of the former Kings ; but especially vnder Henry the third , and the two precedent Edwards , that ●●sued him , which being continued vnder this third of the same name , he being a warriour , & hauing therby all wayes commonly great need of money , was induced at length for increasing his owne temporall wealth , to lay hands vpon the spiritual ; especially such as was wont to goe out of the Realme to the Court of Rome , or accrew to strangers that had benefices , or Ecclesiasticall liuings within the Realme , both religious and other . To which consideration he had these particular motiues peculiar to his time and state , that he hauing for some yeares before proclaimed himself King of France , and taken the Armes and Title of that Kingdome vpon him , as due vnto him by succession , for that he was next heire male in bloud to King Philip the 4. surnamed the faire , that by his mother Queen Isabel was his Grandfather , and all the Popes at that time being French-men , and lying at Auinion in France for seauenty yeares togeather , and the most parte of the Cardinals and Courte being in like manner of the same natiō , that were ordinarily prouided by the Popes of benefices and Bishopricks in England , and therby not fit , as was pretended , to teach , preach , or reside there : King Edward , besides the regard of other inconueniences , entred into ielousie also of state , thinking that these men were enemyes to his pretences in France , and therevpon was the more pricked , to make the prohibitions and lawes , which he did . 4. But yet writing first therof to the Pope himself in most humble , and dutifull manner , requesting redresse and remedy immediately from that Sea , as by his letters yet extant doth appeare ; vpon this occasion ( saith VValsingham ) for that Pope Clement the 6. which once had byn Archbishop of Roane in Normandy , a man of eminent learning , but of profuse liberality , made prouisions vnto two French Cardinals , for their maintenaunce of two thousand markes a yeare vpon Bishopricks and Abbeys in England , without the Kings knowledge or consent , wherwith he being much offended , commaunded first the Procurators of the said Cardinals , to surcease and departe the land vpon paine of imprisonment , & then wrote vnto the said Pope , that famous letter ( saith our Author ) for the liberty of the Church of England , which he and others doe set downe ; The Title wherof is this , Sanctissimo in Christo Patri , ac Domino , Domino Clemanti , diuina prouidentia Sacrosancta Romana , & Vniuersal●● 〈◊〉 Summo Pontifici , Edwardus eadem gratia Rex Francia , & Anglia , &c. ●●●uota pedum oscula beat●rum . 5. This is the Title , and inscription of his letter , whereby wee may see , what account he made of the Sea Apostolicke , and Bishop thereof . And in the prosecution of the said letter , he layeth downe first how all the Bishopricks , Prelacyes , and benefices 〈◊〉 England being founded by the deuotion of Christian Kings , ●ishops and Noble-men therof , to the end that the people might be instructed , the poore releiued , the Churches serued , the Princes assisted by Counsaile , and help of the said Prelates : ( according to that we haue heard touched before in the Statute of * Carliele vnder this mans Grand-father , and otherwise often repeated vpon other occasions ) all these good ends were said now to be euacuated , by that the Sea Apostolike reseruing the coll●tions of such spirituall liuings , to the Courte of Rome , vnfit men ; & strangers for the most parte , were preferred , and therby English-men discouraged and damnified , the patrons of benefices depriued of their right of presentation , & many other such inconueniences ensued . 6. Wherfore considering all these points ( saith the King ) P●●sata etiam deuotionis plenitudine , quae domus nostra Regia , & Clerus , & ●●pulus dicti Regni perstiterunt hactenùs in obedientia Sedis Apostolica , &c. Considering also the fulnesse of deuotion , wherwith our Kingly family , as also the Clergy and people of our Realme haue p●●seuered hitherto in the obedience of the Sea Apostolicke ; it seemeth right , that you , as a Father prouiding for his children , should with paternall affection , alleuiate the burthens of your said children , and permit for the time to come , that Patrons of benefices may haue that solace , as to present fit persons , without impeachment to the said benefices , wherof they are patrons ; and that Cathedrall Churches , & others of the said Kingdome may be prouided of Pastors , by free elections , &c. Wherfore we ●●seech your Benignity , to vouchsafe , euen for the honour of God , and saluation of soules , and for the taking away of the foresa●● scandals and offences , to put quickly some whole-some temperament vnto these matters , to the end that wee , who doe ●●●rence , as wee ought to doe , your most holy person , and the holy Roman Church , in paternae vestra dilectionis dulcedine quie scam●● may rest in the sweetnes of your fatherly loue towards vs. 〈◊〉 ●●●●lissimus , ad regimen Ecclesia Sua Sancta , per tempora prospera & lon●●● . The most high God preserue you , to the gouernment of his holy Church for many and prosperous years . Giuen at VVestminster the 26. day of September , vpon the 4. yeare of our Raigne ouer France , and 27. ouer England . 7. Heere we see with what respect to the Sea Apostolicke , King Edward pretended to make the restraints , which he made of prouisions from Rome : and to shew more his confidence and acknowledgement toward the said Sea , he sent soone after the very same yeare , vnto the said Clement the 6. a most honourable Embassage by Henry Earle of Lancaster and Derby , as also the Earls , Spenser , and Stafford , togeather with the Bishop of Oxford , to treat with the said Pope , and lay before him the right which he pretended to the Crowne of France , though not in forme of iudgement , or to put the matter in triall ( saith VValsingham ) but as to a father and friend ; he hauing 4. yeares before that , written largly of the ground of his said right , vnto this mans predecessour Pope Benedictus the 11. and to the whole Colledge of Cardinals , himself being then at Antwerpe , vpon the 16. of Iuly . Anno Domini 1339. and 13. of his Raigne . 8. His epistle to the Pope had the same title , which the other before ; and that to the Cardinals ; Amabilium Deo patrum Sacrosancta Romana Ecclesiae Cardinalium Collegio venerando , &c. In the prosecution of which letter to the Pope after a large demonstration of his title , he hath these words . Non igitur apud vestrae viscera misericordia & Sanctitatis , locum inueniat detrahentium informatio amula , &c. Let not therefore the emulous informations of detractors , find place in the bowells of your mercie and Holines , against such a sonne of yours , as by hereditary right of all his progenitors , doth and will for euer immoueably persist in your obedience , and in the obedience and grace of the Apostolicke Sea , &c. And we doe intimate this processe of our iustice ( to the said Crowne of France ) and of the iniury done against vs , by detayning the same , vnto the preheminence of your holy Highnes , that by your supreme , and holy measure of right and equity , ( whervnto belongeth vpon earth to open and shut the gates of heauen , and to whom appertaineth the fullnesse of power , & supereminency of tribunall ) you will fauour our right so much as reson requireth ; Parati semper ne dum à vestro sancto cunctis presidente iudicio , imò & à quo●i● alio de veritate contrarij , si quis eam nouerit , humiliter informati . We being ready alwayes to be humbly informed of the truth of the contrary , not only from your holy iudgement , which gouerneth all , but from any other , that knoweth the same . 9. So K. Edward to the Pope at that time , concerning his great controuersie of France . And albeit he was neuer wholy deuoid of the ielousies & suspicions before mentioned , that those French Popes did fauour more his enemies the Kings of France , then himself ; and did assist them also oftentymes with graunts of great pecuniary succours , vpon the Clergy , as himself in some letters doth complaine : yet did he neuer for this , loose any inward respect , reuerēce or obedience to the said Sea Apostolicke : No , nor did the said Sea cease for many years after , to vse her auncient custome of prouiding Bishopricks , and Prelacies in England , though commonly they were English-men only . As for example , the very next yeare after , to wit , 1344. and 18. of King Edwards raigne , the said Pope Clement made Bishop of Norwich one VVilliam Bate-man , that had byn Auditour of his Pallace and Courte in Auinion . And in the yeare 1362. Pope Vrbanus the fifth made Bishop of Lincolne by his prouision , one Iohn Buckingham , and of Chichester one VVilliam Lynne , and King Edward admitted the same without resistance . And foure years after that againe , the same Pope , vpon the death of Simon Islep Archbishop of Canterbury gaue that Bishopricke by his prouision to Simon Langtham , that was Bishop of Ely , and translated Iohn Barnet Bishop of Bath from that Sea , to Ely , and one M. Iohn Harwell , being commended greatly by Prince Edward of VVales to the said Pope , was admitted by him , to the said Bishoprick of Bath ; as also VVilliam VVickham , bearer of the Kings priuy signet , was preferred by the said Pope , vnto the Bishopricke of VVinchester , Domino Rege procurante ( saith Walsingham ) that is , King Edward procuring and labouring for the same . 10. And two yeares after this againe , in the yeare 1368. we read , that the foresaid Simon Langtham , being made Cardinall by Pope Vrbanus , and therevpon resigning his Archbishopricke of Canterbury , the Pope by his prouision , gaue the same to VVilliam VVriothesley Bishop of VVorcester ; and the foresaid Lynne Bishop of Chichester , he translated vnto the Bishopricke of VVorcester ; and vnto the Church of Chichester , he promoted one VVilliam Roade . In all which wee read not , that K. Edward made any difficulty . And the very next yeare after this againe , wee find registred , that the same Pope prouided the Churches of Norwich , Hereford , and Exce●●● of Bishops by his owne prouision ; only it is said of the later of the three , quod Thomas Brangthingham fauore literarum Domini Regis Edwardi , ad Exoniensem Ecclesiam promotus est . Thomas Brangthingham was promoted by the Pope , to the Church of Excester , through fauour of the letters of K. Edward . 11. And finally this matter went on in this manner , vntill towards the later end of K. Edwards raigne , when he growing old and feeble , as well in iudgement , as in body , and matters depending most vpon his sonne Iohn of Gaunt , who was a disorderly man in those dayes , and much cried out vpon , by all the Common-wealth , as may appeare by that he was afterward deposed by Parlament from al gouernment ( though it lasted not long ) & shewed himself enemy to the State of the Clergy , as soone after he well declared , by the imprisoning of VVilliam VVickham Bishop of VVinchester , assayling Courtney Bishop of London , fauoring the famous hereticke Iohn VVickcliffe at his beginning publickly , and other such signes and demonstrations : at this time ( I say ) being the 47. of the raigne of K. Edward , according to VValsingham , or 49. according to Polidor , ( though the booke of Statutes doth appoint in the 25. and 27. years of the said Kings raigne ) were the Statutes made ( or perhaps begun to be put in execution ) against recourse to Rome , except in causes of appellation , and against prouisions of benefices to be gotten or procured from thence , & not at home , by the patrons thereof . Rex Edwardus ( saith Polidor ) primus omnium de Consilij sententia , indixit immanem illis paenam , qui in posterum impetrarent vbiuis gentium Anglicana sacerdotia à Romano Pontifice , aut causas , nisi per appellat tonem , ad eundem deferrent , &c. Lex prouisionis siue de Praemoneri vocitatur . King Edward first of all other Kings , by the sentence of his Counsell , did decree most horrible punishment vnto those , that for the time to come , should in any parte of the world , obtaine English benefices from the Pope of Rome , or should carry any causes vnto him , but only by appellation . The law is called the law of Prouision , or Praemunire . 12. And the same Author addeth further , that Pope Gregory the 11. hearing of this law , tooke the matter greiuously , and wrote to King Edward for the reuocation therof : but there ensuing presently a great schisme in the Church of Rome , which endured allmost 50. years , vntill the tyme of Martin the 5. King Edward also not liuing many years after , and the disordinate gouernment of his Nephew K. Richard the 2. with the tumultuation of the VVickcliffians succeeding , nothing was done therin . And yet doth it appeare by VValsingham , that vpō that very same yeare of 1374. which was the 48. of K. Edwards raigne , there was a treaty begun in the moneth of August , at Bruges in Flaunders , between Embassadors sent both from the sorsaid Pope Gregory , and King Edward , to treat of these points , and that the said treaty endured almost two yeares : Et tandem ( saith he ) concordatum est inter eos , quod Papa de catero , reseruationibus beneficiorum minimè vteretur ; & quod Rex beneficia per literas ( Quare impedit ) vlterius non conferret . At length it was agreed between them , that the Pope for the time to come , should not vse reseruations of benefices to himself ; and that the King should no more bestow benefices by his writ of Quare impedit . 13. Thus much writeth VValsingham , and toucheth no other points ; which yet probably may be presumed , to haue byn treated at that time , & namely that the Kings for the time to come , should haue the nominations of Bishops , and the Pope only the confirmation and inuestiture , except in certaine cases , as afterward we haue seen practised , not only in England , but in most Catholicke Kingdomes round about : but this by concession and agreement of the Sea Apostolicke it self , without any least intention in the said Princes , to deny the supreme spirituall power , & authority of the said Sea ; & much lesse to take it vpon themselues , as M. Attorney would inferre that they did , out of these peeces of Statutes , which he alleadgeth for that purpose . Whervnto now we shall answere breifly , as they ly in this booke . M. Attorneys obiections out of the Raigne of King Edvvard the third . §. I. 14. For that these obiections are many , and little pertinent , as you will see , to the manie conclusion which he should proue , that this King did take supreme spirituall authority and iurisdiction vpon him . And for that the grounds of all that is heer obiected , haue byn discussed and answered , in that wee haue set downe before ; and this booke groweth to more length then was purposed at the beginning ; and finally for that the law-book●● 〈◊〉 cited , of collections and obseruations by later authors ( which bookes I haue not by mee ) are of small authority to our purpose : I shall passe ouer the said obiections , with the greatest breuity that I can , remitting mee for the most part , to that which before hath byn said , and answered . The Attorney . An excommunication by the Archbishop , albeit it be disanulled by the Pope or his Legats , is to be allowed ; neither ought the Iudges , giue any allowance of any such sentence of the Pope , or his Legate . The Catholicke Deuine . 15. This assertion I doe not see how it can be admitted for true , as it lieth ; for so much as no author maketh mention , that K. Edward did euer deny absolutely the Popes authority , to excommunicate by himself , or by his Legats in England , especially vpon the 16. yeare of his raigne , as heere it is noted in the margent , when he was most deuout to the Sea Apostolicke , & wrote the humble letter before mentioned , the next yeare after , according to the date of the said letter , as you haue heard : only there might be this accorde between them , for more authority of the said Archbishop , and peace of the Realme ; that when he had giuen forth any excommunication , no annullation therof from the Pope ( which might perhaps be procured by false suggestion ) should be admitted or executed , vntill the Pope were informed of the truth , & this is vsed also in other Catholicke Kingdomes , at this day . 16. And it were to much simplicity , to imagine that English men in those dayes , admitting the Archbishops excommunication , as heer they doe ( and for confirmation therof we doe read in VValsingham that vpon the yeare 1340. and 14. of King Edwards raigne , Iohn Stratford Archbishop of Canterbury , threatned the said King to excommunicate all his counsell , if he amended not certaine points , wherin they offered iniury to Clergy men ) it were simplicity ( I say ) to thinke that the said Archbishops excommunication , could not be controlled by that of the Pope , from whom they acknowledged the said Archbishop at that time to haue his spirituall authority , if he had any at all . For frō whence should they imagine him to haue it ? for that the Kings , as we haue seen , had not so much as the nomination or presentation of Archbishops in that season , but only the Popes , & much lesse their induction , confirmation , or inuestiture . Whervpon it must needs follow , that he which gaue them spirituall iurisdiction , had greater & higher iurisdiction himself , though in some cases by agreement , not to be vsed , as before hath byn said . The Attorney . It is often resolued , that all the Bishopricks within England , were founded by the Kings progenitours , and therfore the aduowsons of them all belong to the King , and at the first they were donatiue : and that if an incumbent of any Church with Cure dy , if the Patron present not within six moneths , the Bishop of that Diocesse ought to collate , to the end the Cure may not be destitute of a Pastor . If he be negligent by the space of six moneths , the Metropolitan of that Diocesse shall confer one to that Church : and if he also leaue the Church destitute by the space of six moneths , then the Common-law giueth to the King , as to the supreme within his owne Kingdome , and not to the Bishop of Rome , power to prouide a competent pastor for that Church . The Catholicke Deuine . 17. Is it be true which M. Attorney hath so often repeated before , that the Conusaunce , and deciding of Ecclesiasticall causes , doe not appertaine to the Common-law , and that the prouision or induction of Clerks to benefices , and giuing them spirituall iurisdiction ouer the soules of those that be within the compasse of that benefice , be of the number of those causes , which I take to be set downe in like manner by M. Attorneys owne pen before , vnder the names of admissions and institutions of Clerks : then how can it be true , which heere is said , that the Common-law giueth to the King , as to the supreme , to prouide competent Pastors for that , or those Churches , that within the space of a yeare and halfe , are not prouided by the particular patron , Diocesian , or metropolitan ? Or where is this Common-law ? How , or when did it begin ( as often elswhere I haue demaunded ) ? Either by vse , or statute , or common agreement between the Prince and people ? For none of these haue we heard of hitherto , vnder former Kings , though for presenting and nomination to benefices , we haue oftentymes said , that there is no difficulty , but that the temporall Prince , may present in such benefices , or Bishopricks , as he is patron of , either founding the said benefices , or by particular concession of the Sea Apostolicke vnto him ; as we haue shewed more largly before in the life of K. VVilliam the Conquerour , and before him againe vnder K. Edward the Confessor , to whom the Sea of Rome in those dayes , gaue spirituall iurisdiction also , in some cases , ouer the Abbey of VVestminster , & some other places of his Realme . 18. But that the Common-law should dispose of these things , and especially giue spiritual iurisdiction to the King ouer benefices ; ( for so must the meaning of M. Attorney be , if he delude not his Reader with equiuocation of words ) this ( I say ) is both contrary to his owne rule before set downe , and much more to reason . For that to giue Ecclesiasticall iurisdictiom , is much more , then to haue the conusaunce of Ecclesiasticall causes : which he denying to his Common-law , in diuers places of his booke , as before we haue seen , cānot in reasō ascribe to th' other . 19. Wherefore though we graunt this graduation heer set dovvne , as good and conueuient , that if the particular patron doe not present within six moneths , nor the Ordinary , or Metropolitan within their tymes prescribed , the Prince as supreme gouernour of the Common-wealth to see all things done in due order , may present , as if he were patron , to the said benefice ; yet first this cannot come originally from the Common-law , for the reasons alleadged . Secondly this proueth no spirituall iurisdiction at all in any presentor , but only power of presentation , which may be in any man that hath Ius patronatus allowed by the Church and head therof , as before hath byn said . Thirdly much lesse doth this proue supreme authority spirituall in the Prince , as M. Attorney would inferre , which is euident among other reasons by this : For that the Prince when he doth present in this manner , by lapse of tyme , or omission of others , is the last in power of presentation , after the Metropolitans and Bishops ; which yet should be first , if he were supreme in that sorte of authority , and that the matter went by rigour of law , & not by composition & agreemēt . And finally for that the Prince in this case cannot put in a Pastor immediatly from himself , giuing him spiritual iurisdiction ouer soules ; but must present him to the Bishop or Metropolitan , to be induced by him , & indued with that iurisdiction : which he should not doe , if his owne authority spirituall were greater then the said Bishops or Archbishops . And so we see that M. Attorney proueth nothing by this allegation against vs , but rather against himself . The Attorney . The King may not only exempt any Ecclesiasticall person fro●●● the iurisdiction of the Ordinary , but may graunt vnto him Episcopall iurisdiction , as thus it appeareth there , the King had done of auncient tyme to the Archdeacon of Rick-mond . All religious or Ecclesiasticall houses wherof the King was founder , are by the King exempt from ordinary iurisdiction , and only visitable and corrigible by the Kings Ecclesiasticall commission . The Abbot of Bury in Suffolke was exempted from Episcopall iurisdiction , by the Kings Charter . The King presented to a benefice , and his presented was disturbed by one that had obtained Bulles from Rome , for which offence he was condemned to perpetuall imprisonment . Tithes arising in places out of any parish the King shall h●●e , for that he hauing the supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdictio● , is bound to prouide a sufficient Pastor , that shall haue the Cure of soules of that place , which is not within any Parish . And by the common lawes of England it is euident , that no man vnlesse he be Ecclesiasticall , or haue Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction can haue inheritance of tithes . " The King shall present to his free Chappels ( in default of the Deane ) by lapse , in respect of his supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . And Fitz-herbers saith , that the King in that case , doth present by lapse , as Ordinary . The Catholicke Deuine . 20 , Heere be diuers particulars breifly touched , which I shall answere with like breuity , especially for so much as they are but notes , and obseruations out of particular collections of Law-writers , and not Laws nor Statutes themselues . First then it is denied , that in the time of this K. Edward the 3. his raigne , either he , or any other Prince temporall , could exempt any Ecclesiasticall person from the iurisdiction of his Ordinary Bishop , and much lesse graunt vnto him Episcopall iurisdiction , as of himself , and by his owne power : only he might procure it by his suite to the Sea Apostolicke , as before hath byn shewed , vnder K. Edward the Confessor , and other Kings before the Conquest , and diuers after also , namely K. Henry the third and his children . And whatsoeuer is said heer to the contrary for those dayes , is either ●ror or mistaking , for that it was common Catholicke doctrine ●● that time , as it is now , that Episcopall iurisdiction cannot be giuen by 〈◊〉 , but by him that hath it eminently , & with superiority in himself : which must be by ordination , commission , & descent from th'Apostles , to whom it was giuen in Capite , as before we haue declared to descend downe by succession , and the said ordination and imposition of hands to the worlds end vpon Bishops , Prelates and Pastores , by lawful subordination the one vnto the other : which cannot fall vpon any lay Princes , that haue not this ordination Ecclesiasticall , as euery man of iudgement , and void of passion , will easily see and discerne . And the example before alleadged of the great Christian Emperour Valentinian the elder , that professed himself to be vnum de populo & non de Clero , one of the lay people , and not of the Clergy , and consequently not to haue authority to iudge among them ( and much lesse to giue or exercise spirituall iurisdiction ) doth shew what the faith and practice of the Catholicke Church was in this point , aboue twelue hūdred years gone . 21. Heerby then it is euident how those religious houses , wherof King Edward was founder , & namely the Abbey of Bury ( which is the 3. obiection ) were exempted by the Kings Charter from Episcopall iurisdiction , to wit , the King procured the same first from the Sea Apostolicke , & then confirmed it by his Charter , as by many examples you haue seen diuers precedent Chapters of this Booke , and namely vnder King Edward the Confessor , King Edgar , King Kenulph , and King Inas before the Conquest . 22. If one was condemned to perpetuall imprisonment for disturbing the Kings presentation by the Popes Bulles , it is a question de facto , as you see , & not de iure : and such might the Kings anger or offence be , as he might also be put to death for it ( some Iudges neuer wanting to be ready to satisfie Princes pleasures in such affaires ) & yet this doth not proue the lawfulnes of the fact . And we haue seen before , that this King Edward the 3. vpon the 48. yeare of his raigne , promised the Pope that he would neuer vse more that manner of proceeding by his writts of Quare impedit , wherby it is like , this man was so greiuously punished . 23. The instance of tithes allotted to the King for maintenance of a Pastor , in places without the compasse of any parish is a very poore and triflying instance . First , for that those places , that are out of all Parishes , are to be presumed to be very few ; and secondly what great matter is it , if so small a thing be left in depossto with the King , for vse of the incumbent that is to ensue . We haue seen in our dayes , that tithes and rents of the Archbishopricke of Toledo ( for example in Spaine ) being valued at three hundred thousand Crownes by the yeare , were depositated many years togeather in the Kings hands that last dyed , whiles the Archbishop Carança was called to Rome , & imprisoned there , vpon accusations of heresie , and other crimes laid against him : and in the end sentence being giuen , a great parte of that money was graunted to the said King by the Sea Apostolicke , for his wars against Infidels . And yet doth not this proue that the King of Spaine had this by any spirituall iurisdiction of his owne , but by concession of the Sea Apostolicke . 24. And wheras M. Attorney saith heere , that by the common laws of England it is euident , that no man vnlesse he be Ecclesiasticall or haue Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , can haue inheritance of tithes . I would aske him first , how he proueth that the King of England had these tithes by inheritance , and not by ordination , agreement , or conuention . And secondly how his Common law can determine , that no man may enioy tithes , but he that hath Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction : wheras before in the 9. leafe of his booke , he maketh tithes to be an Ecclesiasticall cause , and out of the Conusaunce of the said Common-law . 25. And finally his last inference , that for so much as the King is to present to his free Chappels in default of the Deane , by lapse , that this is done in respect of his supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , is altogeather childish . For that first , to present , includeth no Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction at all , and much lesse supreme ; and may be exercised by meer lay-men , as before hath byn declared at large vnder King VVilliam the Conquerour . Secondly for the King to present to his free Chappels , was as much to say in those dayes , as that those Chappels being made free , and exempted by priuiledges and franquises frō the Sea Apostolicke ( for otherwise they could not be freed from iurisdiction of their Ordinary ) the King presented vnto them , by vertue of the Canon-law , and commission of the said Sea Apostolicke , as founder therof . 26. And thirdly , that he presented after the Deane , and by lapse only , and not in the first place , signifieth plainely , that his iurisdiction in that point ( if presentation may be called iurisdiction , as in some sense it may ) was lesse then that of the Deane . And so Fitzherberts words are to be vnderstood , that in that particular case the King presēted by lapse , as ordinary , that is to say , wheras in other benefices , when the patron , or partie to whom the election , nomination , or presentation first & cheifly appertaineth , presenteth not within such a tyme , the Ordinary may present , as hauing ( by composition ) the second right , or power in that case , and after him the Metropolitan , and last of all the King. Heer in the case of Free Chappels ( wherof the King is presumed to be founder ) after the Deane , which hath the first right ( and this by no other meanes , then by cōcession of the Sea Apostolicke in those dayes ) the King by priuiledge of the same Sea , had right to enter in the second place insteed of the Bishop , which proueth the quite contrary to M. Attorneys conclusion : for it sheweth that the King had not supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction in the case proposed , but secondary , and subordinate to that of the Deane . But let vs see further . The Attorney . An excommunication vnder the Popes Bul is of no force to disable any man within England , and the Iudges said , that he that pleadeth such Buls , though they concerne the excommunication of a subiect , were in a hard case , if the King would extend his iustice against him . If excommunication , being the extreme and finall end of any suite in the Court at Rome , be not to be allowed within England ; it consequently followeth that by the ancient Common-laws of England , no suite for any cause , though it be spirituall , rising within this Realme , ought to be determined in the Court of Rome ; Quia frustra expectatur euentus , cuis effectus nullus sequitur : and that the Bishops of England are the immediate officers and ministers to the Kings Courts . In an attachment vpon a prohibition , the defendant pleaded the Popes Bull of excommunication of the Plaintife : the Iudges demaunded of the defendāt , if he had not the certificate of some Bishop within the Realme , testifying this excommunication ; to whom the Counsell of the defendant answered , that he had not , neither was it , as he supposed , necessary ; for that the Buls of the Pope vnder lead were notorious inough : but it was adiudged that they were not sufficient , for that the Courte ought not to haue regard to any excommunication out of the Realme : and therefore by the rule of the Courte , the 〈◊〉 was thereby disabled . Reges sacro oleo vncti , sunt spiritualis iurisdictionis capaces . The Catholicke Deuine . 27. All that is heere said against the acceptance , or admittance of the Popes Bulls for excommunication in England ( for of this only as speach in this place ) if it be meant of this K. Edwards time only ( as according to the argument it must , and we haue seen that vnder former Kings the contrary was allwayes in practice ) how then doth M. Attorney talke heere againe of his auncient Common-lawes ? For if it began first vnder this King , then was it a new law , and not auncient : and if further wee find no Decree or Statute therof at all in this Kings life , as hitherto we haue not , nor doth M. Attorney cite , or quote any , then might it be a matter only de facto of some Iudges , who according to the current of that time , and as they should see the King affected , pleased or displeased with the Popes of those dayes , would reiect , or admit their Buls at their discretion . And then doe you see , vpon what goodly ground , M. Attorney inferreth his conclusion ; that if the Popes Buls of excōmunication were not respected in those dayes , it consequently followeth , that by the auncient common laws of England , no suite for any cause , though it be spirituall , rising within this Realme , might be determined in the Courte of Rome . And why so ? For that the Popes excommunication was not obayed in England . 28. But I would aske him whether no sentence could be giuen , without excommunication ? Or whether to such as beleeued the Popes authority in those dayes , it were sufficient in conscience , that the said excommunications were not admitted by some Iudges in their tribunals ? Or at least-wise no iudiciall notice taken of them , except they came notified also from some Bishop , as the second Case heer set downe doth touch , & therby insinuateth the solution of the whole riddle , to wit , that Iudges were not bound vnder this K. Edward , to take publicke and Iudiciall notice of anie Bull of excommunication come from abroad , and presented by any priuate person , except the same came notified from some Bishop in authoritie within the Realme . Which caution is vsed also at this day , in diuers other Catholicke Countreys round about vs , for auoiding trouble , deceit , and confusion , to wit that Bulls and other authenticall writings from Rome , must be seen , and certified by some persons of authority within the Realme , before they can be pleaded in Courte , or admitted generally . 29. To the last instance , that Kings annointed with sacred oyle , are capable of spirituall iurisdiction , we denie it not , but graunt with the great Ciuill-lawyer Baldus before mentioned , and all Canonists , that diuers cases of spirituall iurisdiction , may be graunted by the Sea Apostolicke vnto annoynted Kings , and so often it hath been done ; especially to Kings of England , as former examples , haue declared , namelie of K. Edward the Confessor . But this assertion of capacitie , & abilitie , to receiue some sorte of spirituall iurisdiction , if it be committed vnto them ; doth not proue that they had the said iurisdiction in themselues , or of themselues , by vertue of their Crownes , or annoynting , as M. Attorney would haue men beleeue . But let vs heare further . The Attorney . Where a Prior is the Kings debitor , and ought to haue tithes of another spirituall person ; he may choose either to sue for subtraction of his tithes in the Ecclesiasticall Courte , or in the Exchequer , and yet the persons , and matter also was Ecclesiasticall . For seing the matter , by a meane , concerneth the King , hee may sue for them in the Exchequer , as well , as in the Ecclesiasticall Courte , and there shall the right of tithes bee determined . And Fitzh . in his Nat. Br. fol. 30. holdeth , that before the Statute of the 18. of E. 3. cap. 7. that right of tithes were determinable in the tēporall Courts , at the election of the partie . And by that Statute assigned to be determined in the Ecclesiasticall Court , and the temporall Courte excluded therof . And the Courts of diuers manners of the Kings , and of other Lords in auncient times , had the probates of last wills and testaments ; and it appeareth by the 11. Hen. 7. fol. 12. that the probate of testaments did not appertaine to the Ecclesiasticall Courte , but that of late time they were determinable there : so as , of such causes , and in such manner , as the Kings of the Realme , by generall consent and allowance haue assigned to their Ecclesiasticall Courts , they haue iurisdiction by force of such allowance . The King did by his Charter translate Canons secular into regular , and religious persons , which hee did by his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , and could not doe it , vnlesse he had iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall . The Abbot of VValtham died in the 45. yeare E. 3. and one Nicholas merrit was elected Abbot , who , for that the Abbey was exempt from ordinarie iurisdiction , was sent to Rome to be confirmed by the Pope . And because the Pope by his constitutions had reserued all such collations to himself , he did recite by his Bull , that he hauing no regard to the election of the said Nicolas , gaue to him the said Abbey , and the spiritualties and temporalties belonging to the same , of his spirituall grace , and at the request ( as he fained ) of the King of England This Bull was read , and considered of in Councell , that is , before all the Iudges of England ; and it was resolued by them all that this Bull was against the laws of England , and that the Abbot for obtaining the same , was fallen into the Kings mercie , whervpon all his possessions were seased into the Kings hands , as more at large by the said Case appeareth . Where the Abbot of VVestminster had a Prior & Couent , who were regular , and mort in law ; yet the King by his Charter did deuide that corporation , and made the Prior and Couent a distinct and capable bodie , to sue , and be sued by themselues . The Catholicke Deuine . 30. The first case of this instance about tithes and probates of testaments , is a verie trifling thing to proue M. Attorneys great cōclusion , of supreme authoritie Ecclesiasticall to be in the temporall Prince & his Courts . For as these things , and like other , are in parte belonging to spirituall iurisdiction , in that they concerne benefices ; the willes and ordinations of dead men for the benefit of their soules , & the like , partlie also belonging to temporall , in that they include temporalities & worldly substance , they may in different respects appertaine also to differēt Courts , and so they doe in other Catholicke Countreys at this day : and namelie for probates of testaments , in no other Countrey ( perhaps ) besides England , are they limited onlie to the Bishops spirituall Courts . About which wee haue the foresaid Statutes of Circumspectè agatis vnder K. Edward the first , and of Articuli Cleri vnder K. Edward the 2. and diuers other Ordinations vnder this King Edward the 3. But how proueth all this M. Attorneys principall conclusion ? And how far of is this from inferring supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be in the temporall Prince ? Is it not strange , that such a man as M. Attorney , would alleadge such toyes ? But let vs goe forward . 31. If K. Edward did translate by his Charter , the Canons secular into regular , as heere is said , wee must presume he did it ( as before you haue heard K. Henry the 2. to haue done it at VValtham ) by authority of the Popes Br●ue , confirmed by his Charter , and not otherwise . For as well could K. Henry the 2. haue do●e it of his owne authoritie , if it had been annexed to his Crowne , at this K. Edward the 3. And therefore seing the other obserued the Canons of the Church , and presumed not to doe it of himself , but by the Popes licence and Charter , and ratified by his owne , it may be presumed that this King did the same , for so much as the same Canon-law stood still in force . And so it may be suspected , that this case hath somewhat omitted couertly that should appertaine to the full declaration therof . 32. The other case also of Nicolas Morris chosen Abbot of VValtham , that went to Rome and got his inuestiture there , by reseruation of the Pope , and not by his election in England , fell out at that verie time , as heere is noted , when the contention was most in heat between the King and French Popes , about reseruation of benefices , to wit , vpon the 4. of the Kings raigne , the said Popes agreeing soone after to vse no more the said reseruations . So as no great maruaile of the Iudges of those dayes , did moue the King to make some demonstration of speciall offence against this man , the controuersie being then in handling : but this is an instance de facto and not de iure . 33. Lastlie the case of the Abbot of VVestminster made , by the Kings Charter , a distinct bodie , capable to sue , and to be sued , was a temporal priueledge , which any Prince might giue to a Couent , if it vvere commodious for them , and they willing to accept thereof : and if not , they would haue reclaimed in those daies , and haue appealed to the Sea Apostolicke for remedie , as the vse and right was at that time , and as oy diuers examples appeareth of Appellatiōs made against the King himself , during his raigne ; as namelie that of the Bishop of Ely , recounted at large by VValsingham in the yeare 1348. and others . 34. The six instance consisteth of certaine Statutes , made in the 25. 27. 28. and 38. yeares in the raigne of K. Edward the 3. against prouisious and prouisers from Rome , reseruations of Bishopricks and benefices by the said Sea , vndue appellations , vniust citations , infamations or molestations of men by Censures from thence . All which I thinke not good to set downe at large as they lie in the Statute booke , for that they are ouerlonge , but breiflie rather to alleadge the summe therof , which is sufficient for the point it self of our controuersie . First then it is said : That in consideration of the manie inconueniences and hurtes , that seemed to ensue to the Common-wealth , as well Clergie-men , as secular , by such as went to Rome , and there by false suggestions , and other such procurements , vnworthilie got vnto themselues benefices , they being either strangers , not able to preach , and teach , or els , if English-men , yet vnfit for their learning , or manners , and that therby particular patrons were depriued of their right of presenting , & c ? It was ordained vpon the 25. yeare of this Kings raigne , to punish the persons , that being subiect to the King , should attempt , or doe this without the Kings licence , or knowledge of the Realme . And so the decree of Parlament was , that whosoeuer hereafter should attempt , or procure any such prouisions , he should be out of the Kings protection , whereby euerie man might lawfullie kill him , &c. 35. And in the same Parlament , the like , and many other inconueniences are represented against reseruations of benefices , by the said Sea Apostolicke , and Bishops therof , whervpon it is decreed , by the King , and his great men , and Commons , that the said reseruations shall not bee suffered , or admitted for the time to come , as a thing not due to the Sea Apostolicke ; But that all Archbishops , Bishops , and other dignities , and benefices Electorie in England , shall bee permitted to free election , as they were graunted by the Kings progenitours , founders therof , and the auncestors of other Lords , that had founded any such benefices , and might haue reserued to themselues , as Patrons , and founders , the presentations there vnto . 36. Moreouer Complaint being made by diuers of the Kings people , that many were greatlie troubled , and drawne out oftentimes of the Realme , by vnquiet and litigious people , that made appeals to Rome , to answere to things , wherof the Conusaunce pertained to the Kings Court , &c. It was assented , and accorded by the King , and by the great men , and Commons , that whosoeuer should draw any man out of the Realme , in plea , wherof the Conusaunce pertained to the Kings Courts , should incurre the daunger of Praemunire . And finallie : that no man presume to cite , sue , vex , molest any by Censures procured from the Popes Courte , against any , for obseruing these laws , and like other ordinances , vpon paine of seuere punishment , &c. 37. To all which we answere , that diuers circumstances may bee considered about these Statutes , Ordinances , and Decrees , as well of the times , and persons , as of the occasions , causes , and manner of doing . And to begin first with the last ; it may bee , that either all , or some parte of these restrictions might be made by some kind of consent or toleration of the Popes themselnes , vpon the often representing of the inconueniences , which we haue seen before made by diuers Princes , from K. Henry the 3. down-ward , and the answers as well of Innocentius the 4. as other Popes , that the said inconueniences should be remedied . And to the same effect putteth downe VValsingham this K. Edwards letters , at seuerall times , to sundry Popes for that end . And vpon the yeare 1373. ●hich was the 47. of his raigne ( long after the making of these Statutes ) he sent againe to Gregory the 11. to intreat his consent , and good will to the same . Rex Edwardus ( saith Walsingham ) eodem anno misit Ambassiatores ad Dominum Papam , rogaus c●m , &c. The same yeare K. Edward sent Embassadours to the Pope , praying him , that he would be content to surcease from prouiding benefices in England , & that Clerks might enioy their rights to Ecclesiasticall dignities by elections , as in old time they were accustomed . So as heere we see , that the King pretended right by ancient custome , in these affaires : Neither did this Pope altogeather deny it . For VValsingham addeth : super quibus articulis nuncij à Papa certa recepêre responsa , &c. vpon which articles the Kings messengers receiued from the Pope certaine answers , of which they should informe him at their returne , & that nothing should be determined , vntill the King had written againe his mind more fully vnto the said Pope . And then in the next yeare after he saith , as before you haue heard , that the Pope , and the King were agreed vpon these , and like points . 38. And if this were so at this time , then may it be presumed also , that before vpon the 25. yeare of his raigne , when he first made those Statutes of restraint , he had also some secret consent , or conniuency of Pope Clement the 6. or Innocentius the 6. that immediately ensued him , to the same effect : at least wise , for the ceasing of prouisions and reseruations , except only vpon great and weighty causes , ( for in such cases we find , that they were vsed also afterward ) and that ambitious , busie , and troublesome people , that should deceitfully procure such prouisions , or rashly and vniustly appeale , or molest men with Citations , Censures , and the like , should be punished . And this was a thing so needful oftentymes , as S. Bernard himself , that liued vnder King Henry the first , and writing to Pope Eugenius , that had byn his scholler , of the great abuses of troublesome appellatiōs in his dayes , wisheth him , as on the one side to admit all due appellations , which of right were made vnto him , and to his tribunall , from all partes of the world ; so on the other side , to punish them that made them vniustly . 39. All which being considered , togeather with the time before noted , wherin K. Edward made these restraints , to wit , when he had great warrs in France for challenge of the Crowne , and no small iealousie with the Popes , Cardinals , and Roman Court , as being all , or the most parte French at that day , and residing in Auinion in France ; the continuall clamours also of his people , much exaspered by certaine particular abuses , and excesses of some Ecclesiasticall officers : the maruaile is not so great , if he tooke some such resolution , as this de facto , at least for satisfying especially of the laity , who were most instant in the matter ; Yea & by whom only , it seemeth to haue byn done . For that in none of these Statutes is mentioned expressly the consent of the Lords spirituall ; but of the King , and Great men ( Magnatum in Latin ) and of the Communalty , which is repeated in euery of the forsaid Statutes , except one , where is said . The King by the assent , and expresse will , and concord of the Dukes , Earles , Barrons , and the Commons of this Realme did determine , &c not mencioning at al the Bishops , Archbishops , Abbots , and other Ecclesiasticall Prelates , that had right of suffrage in those Parlaments ; and consequently , how far this probation de facto doth proue also de Iure , I leaue to the Reader to consider . 40. Only we conclude , that howsoeuer this was , either by right or wrong , for the manner of determining ; certaine it is , that King Edward did not therby diminish any way his opinion , or iudgment of the Popes spirituall authority : as may appeare by al his other actions writings to the same Sea afterwards , and of his respectiue carriage and behauiour , not only towards the Popes , but to his owne Clergy also in England , in all matters belonging to their superiority Ecclesiasticall . In proofe wherof , vpon the very selfsame 25. yeare of his raigne , wherin the former Statutes of restraint were decreed against such of his subiects as should offend therein ; he made another Statute intituled . A confirmation of all libertyes , graunted the Clergy . And after ward vpon the 31. yeare , another Statute intituled . A confirmation of the great Charter , and of the Charter of the Forrest . Which great Charter containing the priuiledges , libertyes , and superiority of the Church , is confirmed by him againe in the 42. yeare of his raigne , by a particular Statute . And finally vpon the 50. yeare , which was the last before he died , he made another Statute intituled thus . ●he libertyes of the Church confirmed . So as all the former restraints , were pretended for particular cases only , mixt with temporaltyes , and for remedy of some excesses and inconueniences , without detraction of any thinge from the acknowledged supreme power of the Pope and Sea Apostolicke , in meere spirituall matters . 41. And how far then , is all this that is alleadged here by M. Attorney , from prouing that K. Edward the 3. did hold himself for supreme head of the Church , euen in spirituall and Ecclesiasticall matters ? Or that his restraints before made in the cases set downe , might bee a president , or warrant , either de facto , or de iure to Q. Elizabeth , to K. Henrie the 8. or K. Edward that followed him , to denie wholy the Popes authoritie , and take it to themselues ? And so much of this K. Edward the 3. whose religion & iudgmēt , though it were euer Catholicke , as hath been said ; yet was his life and actions manie times disordinate and violent , as of a souldiar & warrier ; and this not onlie against the liberties of the Church , but against the precepts of good life and gouernmēt also . The first appeareth by a longe reprehension written vnto him , with threatning likewise of excommunication from Iohn Stratford Archbishop of Canterburie , vpon the yeare 1340. wherin he doth sett downe the manie greiuances , which he did laie vpon the Church vniustlie . And for the second , it maie bee vnderstood , as wel by the same narration of the foresaid Archbishop , wherin he said to the king , admonishing him of his fathers miserable end : Ferè corda populo terra amisistis . You haue almost lost the hearts of all the people of the land . As also the same is euidēt by the generall testimonie of our historiographers , who make the later parte of his raigne to haue been very much disordered , & thereby also vnfortunate & miserable , as maie appeer by these words of VValsingham , who hauing much commended other graces in him , saith : Luxus tamē & motus suae carnis lubricos , etiam in aetate senili non cohibuit , &c. he did not euen in his old age , restraine the luxurious and fraile motiōs of his owne flesh ; being much allured hereunto , as is said ; by the incitation of a certaine dishonest woman , named Alice Pierce , that was with him vnto the end of his life , and was cause of hastening the same . And it is greatlie to bee noted , as in the former parte of his raigne , all things went prosperously with him ; so towards the later end in his old age , through the demerit of his synnes , all fell out contrarie , &c. OF KING RICHARD THE SECOND , The tweluth King after the Conquest . § I. 42. Next after the death of K. Edward succeded his Nephew K. Richard the 2. for 22. years , sonne of Prince Edward surnamed the Black Prince , who died not long before his father . The child was but an eleuen yeares old when he tooke the Crowne , and of verie great expectation , but that youth wealth , and commaundrie in that age , with adulation , and peruerse counsaile of licencious people , that are wont to accompanie that state and condition of Princes , drew him aside to his owne pittifull ruine in the end ; and would God , in his life , conuersation , & gouernment , he had as well held the stepps and wisedome of his auncestors , as he did in the outward maintenance of their religion , and obediēce towards the Sea Apostolicke : for that ( probably ) it would haue preserued him frō the miseries whereunto hee fell ; though it bee true also , that dissolution of life , doth commonlie bring with it contēpt or neglect , or lesse estimation of religion : whervnto this man , and some that were about him , had the more occasion giuen them , by the prophane , and wicked doctrine of VVi●k●liffe & his fellows , that preuailed much in these daies , and brought many of the Common people to such fury & contempt of all religion , as their strange tumults , and raging rebellions , vnder their Captaines , wat Tyler , Iack Straw , and other like vnruly rulers , doe well declare . 43. But yet the externall face of religion , and practice therof , receiued and established from the times of all former Kings , was continued also by him ; & in particular , it is to be noted , that no one King , did euer more often confirme and ratifie the liberties of the Church , then he , which is as much to say , as to establish the opposite negatiue proposition against M. Attorney , professing heerby , that he had not supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall , for so much as the libertyes of the English Church did expressly consist in this , that Church-men , and Church-matters , and all spirituall and ecclesiasticall affaires , were a distinct gouernment from the temporall , and subordinate only among themselues , the one degree to the other , and all mediately to the Sea Apostolicke , and Bishops therof . 44. For proofe then of this , that King Richard did confirme and maintaine , all the dayes of his raigne , these libertyes , franquises , and priuiledges of the Church , and of Clergy-men , appeareth by his owne Statutes : As for example , by the first Statute made in his first yeare , with this title . A confirmation of the libertyes of the Church : and the second Statute made in his second yeare hath the same title , and subiect ; as also hath the first Statute of his third yeare , and first of his 5. and first of his 6. and first of his seauenth yeare . And so in like manner shall we find the very first Statutes of his 12. and 21. years , to containe the same confirmation . 45. And if I should stand vpon the enumeration of particular examples , of the practice of these libertyes in Clergy-men of those dayes , it would be ouerlonge , as namely , how all Bishops , Archbishops , Abbots , and other Prelates , elected according to the agreement before taken , repaired to the Bishop of Rome for their confirmations , and could not exercise any parte of their offices , vntill they had the same . And albeit according to the former decrees of the 25. and 27. yeares of K. Edward the 3. confirmed also in the 13. and 16. yeares of the raigne of this King , reseruations of benefices , or prouisions immediately from the Court of Rome were not admitted ( which little importeth our controuersie with M. Attorney ) yet this , which includeth the maine ground & substantiall foūdation of all acknowledgement of supreme spirituall power , remained still vntouched , to wit , that no Bishop , Archbishop , or other Prelate , by whomsoeuer he was presented , chosen , or nominated , could , or can at this day , haue spirituall iurisdiction , but either mediaté or immediatè from the Pastor of the Sea Apostolicke . And this point did K. Richard maintaine and defend all dayes of his life , which is the principal point , as hath byn said , of acknowledging the soueraigne authority of the Sea Apostolicke in spirituall affaires , for that other things are but dependance of this , as annexed sequels . 46. And I might alleadge heere diuers particular examples of King Kichards respectiue proceedings towards both the Sea of Rome and Clergy of his Countrey : as namely in the first , wheras Pope Vrban the 6. being truly , and Canonically elected Pope in Rome , & afterward against him , the Archbishop of Arles in France being chosen for Anti-Pope by a faction of French-Cardinals , that named him Clement the 7. King Richard stood zealously with the said true Pope , and not only made a Statute in Parlament , that whosoeuer should be obedient to any other person , as Pope , but only to Pope Vrban , should be out of the Kings protection , and his goods seased , as the words of the Statute are ; but also some yeares after that againe when the said Pope Vrban had appointed Henry Bishop of Norwich , to be his Captaine general , to passe ouer into Flanders , and by force , to constraine the said schismaticall Pope to surcease that diuision ; the said King not only allowed , but assisted also that enterprise . 47. And as for the Clergy of his Realme , and their spirituall iurisdiction , how much he respected it , appeareth by that the Archbishop of Canterbury , and some other Bishops , that assisted him ; hauing publikely pronounced the sentence of excommunication , vpon the yeare 1379. against certaine persons , that had broken the priuiledges of Sanctuary in the Church and Monastery of VVestminster , and shed bloud therin , for taking out a certaine person in the Kings name ; the said King albeit , he was thought to haue byn the abetter ●hereof , yet did he finally obay the said Censures , and soone after in the same yeare at his Parlament of London , it was ordained ( saith VValsingham ) . Quod immunitates , & priuilegia Ecclesia VVestmonasteriensis illibata manerent : that the libertyes , & priuiledges of the Church of VVestminster should remaine whole and inuiolate . 48. Wherefore now to answere the instance or obiectiō which M. Attorney alleadgeth out of the foresaid Statute of the 16. yeare of this King , where the law of Premunire , the losse of goods , and lands , & other punishments are appointed for such , as doe procure processe , and sentences of excōmunicatiō , which touched the king their Lord , against him , his crowne , and his regalitie , &c. as larglie you maie see it set downe in the whole Statute out of M. Attorneys booke . I answere that whosoeuer shall attentiuelie read the whole contexture of this Statute , with that which before wee haue sett downe , both in this , & in the precedent kings life , he shall see that this Statute doth rather make against M. Attorneys purpose of supreme spirituall iurisdiction , then anie waie for him . For that first of all , the verie proposition to the Parlament doth concerne temporal power , and not spirituall , saying : that the Crowne of England hath been at all times free , and onlie subiect to God immediatlie , and to none other , and that the same ought not in anie thing , touching the maiesty or regalitie of the same Crowne , bee submitted to the Bishop of Rome , nor the laws and Statutes thereof to bee taken away or mablect by him , &c. 49. This then being the proposition of the Commons , which is euidently to bee vnderstood of temporall regalitie , and thinges thereunto belonging , the temporall Lords assented absolutelie vnto it . But the Archbishop , Bishops , Abbots , and other Ecclesiasticall Prelates , that made the cheife , and highest parte of the Parlament , distinguished ; yea made protestations ( as the Statute saith ) that it was neuer their meaning ( to witt either in K. Edwards daies or now ) to saie that the Bishop of Rome might not excommunicate Bishops , or make translation of Prelates from one Sea to another , after the law of holie Church : yet if this should bee done at anie time , in great preiudice of the King or his realme , as that sage men , or Counsellours should therby be drawne from him , without his knowledge , or against his will ; or that the substance , and treasurie of his Realme , should bee in daunger to be destroyed , by sending out money or giuing it to his aduersaries , or other like inconueniences ensue against the Kings state and realme indeed ; then they did graunt , that this might bee esteemed against the Kings regalitie , &c. whereby wee see in what sense , and with what limitation , they did yeeld to such like Statutes in those daies , pressed by the importunitie of the laie partie , but yet far from the meaning of M. Attorney , who would haue men thinke , that heerby they confessed K. Richard to bee Head of the Church , which himself expresly denieth in his forenamed Statute in fauour of Pope Vrban , whom hee calleth the onlie true head of the Church , and for such commaundeth him to bee obaied and respected , vnder the paines before mencioned . And so much of K. Richard , who not long after fell into great misery , & lost both his commaundry and life , and came to a pitifull end , full of affliction and desolation , as our histories doe testify and set forth at large . OF THE THREE KING HENRYES OF THE HOVSE OF LANCASTER , The fourth , fifth and sixth , vvho raigned for the space of threescore years : And what is obserued out of their raignes , concerning our Controuersie with M. Attorney . CHAP. XIII . AFter the three Edwards before mentioned , vnder whom the first restraints were made for the exercise of certaine externall points of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , as you haue heard ; and after the pitifull end of their successor , & inheritour K. Richard the 2. entred and ensued in the Crowne three Henries of the line of Lancaster , who had variable successe in their liues and temporall affaires , though in religion , and particularly in this point of our controuersie , about spirituall power and iurisdiction , they were all one . 2. King Henrie the 4. being Duke of Lancaster , and sonne of the often fore named Iohn of Gaunt , that was the fourth sonne of K. Edward the 3. seing the disorderly gouernment of K. Richard the 2. his Cosen germā , & the auersion of his peoples affection , from him for the same cause , came out of France , where he liued in banishement , raised powers against him , pursued and tooke his person , caused him to be deposed by Parlament , and himself chosen in his place with great applause of the people , which yet turning away from him soone after againe , he was forced for his safetie & defence not onlie to make away the same K. Richard in Pomfret Castle , but also to take armes , suppresse , and cut of the greatest and cheifest men , that had aided and assisted him to gaine the said Kingdome . And finallie after a troublesome raigne of 13. yeres , he died , vsing these words before his death , as they are registred by Stow , and others : I sore repent mee , that euer I charged my self with the Crowne of this Realme , &c. 3. King Henry the 5. his eldest sonne succeeded him , for the space of ten years ; and though he were a most excellent Prince , warlike , and fortunate , & gained the possession of almost the whole Kingdome of France : yet had he great difficultyes notwithstanding , both therin , and by domesticall conspiracyes , not only the Lollards , and VVickliffians , but his owne nobility also , kinred , and cheife officers , conspiring against him , and seeking his ouerthrow . And finally , when he was in the very middest , and heat of his wars and Conquest , and his life and health most desired , both by himself & others , he died with much affliction of mind in France , leauing a little child of his owne name , that was but eight moneths old , to preserue , and defend that which he had gotten , but could not , as the euent proued . 4. This young infant then , borne as it were a King , of two so great Realmes , and crowned in Paris it self , which no other King of England euer was before or since , drew out a longe raigne , for almost forty yeres , but intangled with many aduersityes , and varietyes of fortune , in which he lost first all his States of France , not only such as his Father had gottē by dint of sword , but other likewise which his progenitors had inherited by lawfull succession of bloud , and then by little and little , leesing also at home his kinred , & trustie freinds , that by Ciuill wars were cut of , he lost at length his Kingdome , being twise depriued therof , and finally his life and progeny , & became a pittifull example of Princely misery : and so this line of Lancaster , entring by Gods designement , as it seemeth , to punish the sinnes of the former line of Edwards , and Richard before mentioned , and especially that ( as many thinke ) of their rough proceeding with the Church , now were punished also themselues , by another line of Yorke , for continuing the said rigorous , and preiudiciall lawes against the priuiledges , and franquises therof , which was written to K. Henry the 6. by Pope Martyn the 5. as Polidor noteth , and he promised reformation therin ; but the thing depending of consent of Parlament , was neuer effected , nor that good motion put in execution . 5. But yet that all these three Kings of the house of Lancaster were perfectly , and zealously Catholicke , no man can deny ; and infinite arguments are extant therof , yea and of this point also in particular , of their acknowledgment and reuerence of the soueraigne spiritual authority of the Bishop of Rome in the Church of Christ. And therfore King Henry the fourth , considering the great hurtes and scandals , that had ensued for many yeres togeather by schisme of Anti-Popes in the Sea Apostolicke , was so carefull , and diligent , to procure and assist the Generall Councell indicted at Pisa in Italy , for the extinguishing therof ; as not only he sent learned Prelates vpon his charges thither , to help & assist the said Councell , as namely Robert Bishop of Salisbury , and other learned men , but wrote very pious letters also both to Gregory the 12. that was the true Pope , and to all his Cardinals , by a speciall Embassadge of his owne , persuading the said Pope by diuers godly and prudent reasons , to persist in his mind and promise of giuing ouer the Popedome , as the other Anti-pope called Benedictus the 13. had in like manner promised . Of which his letter to the said Pope he making mention in another to the foresaid Cardinals saith : Cupientes ostendere quem zelum habuimus , & habemus , vt pax detur Ecclesiae , &c. we desiring to shew what zeale we haue had , and haue , that peace be giuen to the Church , we haue by consent of the States of our Kingdome sent our letters vnto his Holines , &c. 6. And when this Councell of Pisa tooke no great effect vntill fiue yeares after , when in the tyme of his sonne K. Henry the 5. the generall Councell of Constance in Germany was appointed for the same effect , the said sonne K. Henry the 5. following his Fathers piety heerin , caused the Archbishop of Canterbury , Henry Chychley , to call ●●●●t a Councell in England , to choose fit English Prelates to be sent to that Councell ; and so were chosen , not onlie the foresaid Bishop of Salysburie sent before to Pisa , but Bath and Hereford also , togeather with the Abbot of VVestminster , Prior of VVorcester , and other famous learned men , to whom the King added for his Embassadour , the Earle of VVarwycke to accompany them thither , where the said schisme being extinguished , by the deposition of three that pretended to be Popes , and Martyn the 5. being established in that seate , the whole Christian world was put in peace thereby . 7. And for that in the same Councell , the heresies of VVickcliffians and Lollards were especially condemned and anathematized , the same decrees were presently admitted , and put in execution in England , by the zealous commaundement of the said K Henry the 5. though his father K. Henry the 4. and the whole State had preuented that decree , by making temporall laws , in confirmation of the Canonicall and Churches laws , for the punishment of the said Lollards and VVickcliffians that denyed the Popes Supremacy , and caused manie of them to bee burneed ; and so did K. Henrie the 6. also , during all the time of his raigne : whereby as by infinite other thinges that might bee alleadged , their beleife and iudgment in that behalfe is sufficiently declared ; though in respect of some temporall inconueniences , and the inclination of their people , vpon former complaints , they recalled not the said restraints , laws , or ordinances made by their progenitors , wherof now we shall speake more particularly , in answering the instances alleadged by M. Attorney our of their raignes . Instances alleadged out of the Raigne of King Henry the fourth , the thirtenth King after the Conquest . §. I. The Attorney . 8. It is resolued that the Popes Collectors , though they haue the Popes Buls for that purpose , haue no iurisdiction within this Realme : and there the Archbishops , and Bishops , &c. of this " Realme , are called the Kings spirituall Iudges . The Catholicke Deuine . It is to bee considered who resolued this , and vpō what ground , for it maie bee there was some agreement taken between the Pope and the Realme in that behalfe , concerning the Collectors authoritie , as in other Catholicke Countreys also at this daie , wee see there is : Neither had the said Collector by his office , anie ordinarie iurisdictiō , but extraordinarie onlie by particular commission . And commonly those collections were made cum beneplacito Principis , with the good liking of the Prince , where they are made . Archbishops & Bishops maie bee called the Kings spirituall Iudges , for that they are his subiects , as Peers and principall members of the Realme ( as before hath been declared ) and doe liue vnder his protection , but not as though they receiued their spirituall authoritie or iurisdiction from him ; for then might he execute the same authoritie and iurisdictiō by others also which are no Bishops , as by his Chauncellour and temporall Iudges , giuing them the same iurisdiction , which no man would affirme in that time , as lawfull . But let vs see his second Instance . The Attorney . 9. By the auncient lawes Ecclesiasticall of this Realme , no man could be conuicted of heresie , being high treason against the allmighty , but by the Archbishop and all the Clergy of that prouince , and after abiured therevpon , and after that newly conuicted , and condemned by the Clergy of that prouince in their generall Councell of Conuocation . But the Statute of 2. H. 4. cap. 15. doth giue the Bishop in his Diocesse , power to condemne an hereticke , and that before that Statute he could not be committed to the secular power to be burnt , vntill he had once abiured , and was againe relapsed to that , or some other heresie . Wherby it appeareth that the King by consent of Parlament , directed the proceedings in the Ecclesiasticall Courte , in case of heresie , and other matters more spirituall . The Pope cannot alter the lawes of England . The Catholicke Deuine . Why doth not M. Attorney set dov●ne those auncient laws Ecclesiasticall of this Realme . Will he say that they were any other , then the Common & Canon laws of the Roman Church in those daies ? He cannot with any probability . And as for the matter heere touched , that no man could be conuicted of heresie , but by the Archbishop , and all the Clergie of that Prouince , and after abiured , and then newly conuicted , and condemned againe by a generall Councell of Conuocation , &c In some points he hitteth right , but in other not . For when any new heresie is discouered , it must be iudged and condemned by some such Synod or Councell , as heer is mentioned , if the head of the Church haue not condemned it before . But when the heresie is condemned , it was neuer necessary to call such Synods or Councell , for conuicting of euery particular man , that shall be accused of that heresie : and much lesse was it needfull , that there should be two seuerall conuictions , the one before abiuration , the other after : ( except in such as were relapsed ) for what if the hereticke should stand stiffely to it , vpon his first conuiction , and would not abiure , but defend his heresie ? did the anncient laws Ecclesiasticall of England ( thinke you ) forbid him in this case to be punished ? I thinke not . 10. But M. Attorney hath a note in the margent , wherat I cannot but maruaile , for that he hearing in this place , out of the old sense of our ancient lawes , heresie to be held for high treason against God , and that ( as he supposeth ) it must be twise conuicted , which is only true in relapse , saith in the margent . This had a resemblance to an Attainder of treason , wherin there must be first an indictment by one Iury , and a conuiction by another . But I deny this resemblance to be of any moment for the forme of proceeding , though for the thing , I graunt , that heresie is truly treason against God ; but this double conuiction heer mentioned by two Iuries , hath little or no similitude with the other of relapsed heresie , where the party is first permitted to abiure his first fault and not punished , except he offend the second time in the same : Which yet I persuade my self M. Attorney will not allow in humane treasons against the Prince , that he must twise iterate his fault , before he can be punished , and so the parity or similitude holdeth not . 11. But now to the principall point ; where the Attorney saieth that the Statute of K. Henry the 4. doth giue the Bishop in his Diocesse , power to condemne an hereticke , and that before that Statute , he could not be committed to the secular power to be punished , vntill he had once abiured , and was againe relapsed , &c. and that heerby it appeareth , that the King directed Ecclesiasticall proceedings &c. Diuerse errors are heere couched togeather , and then if ignorance be the inseperable twynne of euery error ( as M. Attorney in his Preface holdeth ) you know what will ensue . 12. First then it is presumed in this assertion , that no hereticke could be put to death in old tyme , except he were relapsed , that is to say , had once ( at least ) abiured his heresie , and fallen vnto it againe : which is false . For that albeit such people were most of all to be punished , for their periury , and inconstancy ; yet other also that neuer abiured , if they stood obstinate , might by ancient laws , as well Ciuill , as Canonicall be punished by death ; as in the Ciuill is auerred by the particular laws , and ordinations of Theodosius , Valentinian , Martian , Iustinian , and other Christian Emperours , extant in the Code . And in the * Canon law in like manner , is determined by diuers definitions there to be seen , that incorrigible hereticks are to be deliuered ouer to the secular power , to be punished by them , whether they be relapsed or not relapsed , though more the relapsed . And all this was before the Statute of K. Henry the 4. which did nothing els , but allow , and confirme the vse , and exercise of the said laws . For so it appertained vnto him , as King of the Realme , to consider whether the exercise of these Ecclesiasticall laws , haue any incōuenience against the State , or no. 13. And moreouer , where it is heer said , that the Statute of K. Henry giueth the Bishop , power in his Diocesse to condemne an hereticke , as though before he had it not by Canon-law , is another grosse error . For that this fact of K. Henry was nothing els but an approbation of a more auncient decree made before , by Pope Gregory the 9. extant in the Decretals of the Canon-law in these words . Quoniam Episcoporum numerus , &c. For that the number of Bishops appointed by auncient Canons , for the degradation of Clergy-men , cannot alwayes so easily come togeather , we graunt vnto you ( Archbishop of Rhemes ) that when any Priest , or Clerke , being within holy Orders , is either to be giuen ouer to the secular Courte , to be punished for heresie , or perpetually to be walled vp , you calling togeather the Abbots , and other Prelates , and religious persons , and learned men of your Diocesse , which you shall thinke good , may alone degrade him in their presence , you being his Bishop , &c. 14. This was the Decree of Pope Gregory , aboue two hundred yeares before King Henryes Statute , for giuing licence to euery Bishop within his Diocesse alone , with the help of his learned counsell , and other assistance heer mentioned , to condemne , degrade and deliuer ouer to secular power any obstinate hereticke relapsed , or not relapsed : ( though such as were not relapsed , and acknowledged their faultes , might be dealt withall more mildly , as by walling or shutting them vp , as heer is mentioned ) And that this Decree of Pope Gregory was an exception , or priuiledged forme of proceeding from the auncient Canons , that appointed a certaine precise number of Bishops to be called togeather for the deposition of Deacons , Priests , and Bishops , appeareth by the words thereof , that doe mention the said Canons , which you may see in the body of the Canon-law , cited out of the Councell of Carthage , aboue twelue hundred years past . So as M. Attorneys inference , that heerby K. Henry tooke vpon him to direct the proceedings of the Ecclesiasticall Courte in cases of heresie , hath no substance in it at all , for so much as you see it was directed by the Canon law long before K. Henry was borne . 15. Wherefore to his last instance , that the Pope cannot alter the laws of England : I answere it is true , touching temporall laws , for they are to be made , or altered by the English Prince and Parlament : but Ecclesiasticall laws of the Church , if they be positiue , & not deuine , he might in all those auncient times , vpon iust causes alter , as I thinke M. Attorney will not deny ; and then by good consequence , if it be true , which euery where he striueth to proue that Ecclesiasticall laws , though made by the Pope , are laws also of England , and may be called English lawes , when they are admitted in England ; it followeth ( I say ) against himself in this assertion , that the Pope might alter the lawes of England , in that he might alter those Canon-lawes , that were admitted in England , & thereby made English lawes . The Attorney . 1. The Iudges say , that the Statutes which restraine the Popes prouisions to the benefices of the aduowsons of spirituall men , were made , for that the spiritualty durst not in their iust cause , say against the Popes prouisions ; so as those Statutes were made , but in affirmance of the common laws . 2. Excommunication made by the Pope , is of no force in England , and the same being certified by the Pope , into any Courte in England , ought not to be allowed ; neither is any certificate of any excommunication auailable in law , but that is made by some Bishop in England ; for the Bishops are , by the common laws , the immediate officers & ministers of iustice to the Kings Courts in causes Ecclesiasticall . 3. If any Bishop doe excommunicate any person for a cause , that belongeth not vnto him , the King may write vnto the Bishop , and commaund him to assoile , and absolue the party . " 4. If any person of religion obtaine of the Bishop of Rome to be exempt from obedience regular , or ordinary , he is in case of Premunire , which is an offence ( as hath byn said ) contra Regem , Coronam , & Dignitatem suam . The Catholicke Deuine . 16. I haue conioyned three or foure obiections togeather , for that indeed all make not the due waight of one . Wherfore to the first I answere , that little it importeth to our controuersie , what those Iudges said , why the Statutes were made against the Popes prouisions in affirmance of the Common-laws : for this may be said of euery new Statute whatsoeuer , that it is made in affirmance of ancient Common-law ; albeit the said law ( supposed to be common ) no where appeare , nor any reason , proofe , or probability be alleadged why it should be Common-law , before that fact or Statute appeared : So as this Common-law , is now by M. Attorney made so common , as it cometh to be Ens transcendens , embracing all that is , or can be deuised by any of his Iudges , or Reuerend Sages , or rather he maketh it Ens rationis , or a meere Chymera , that ( as Logitians hold ) hath no essence or being at all à parte rei , but only in imagination . For seing that the Popes prouisions had endured in England for so many ages before , as all doe , and must graunt : how may the common law be presumed all that while , to haue byn against the same , & yet no mention euer made therof ; These are morall impossibilityes , to say no more . 17. The second point doth answere it self , and we haue touched the same before , that by agreement in England , the Popes Buls of Excommunication , when they were sent , should not be admitted ordinarily , but by the certificate of some Bishop of England , for preuenting the fraudes , or false suggestions , which particular men might vse therein . And wheras M. Attorney heere againe saith , that the Bishops are by the Common lawes , the immediate officers and ministers to the Kings Courtes in causes Ecclesiasticall , he runneth againe to his old Chymera of imaginary Common lawes . For where is this Common-law , that maketh Bishops to be officers , and ministers to the Kings Courts in causes Ecclesiasticall ? For if the Common-law or Iudges thereof cannot so much as heare , or take conusaunce of any spiritual causes belonging to Bishops Courts , as * often M. Attorney affirmeth in this his booke ; how much lesse can it , or they by vertue therof , appoint Iudges , or make them officers in those spirituall Courts , which haue their authority from the Canon and not Common lawes ? 18. To the third obiection little answere is needfull : For who seeth not but that euery King in his Kingdome , may commaund all ●●●es of people to doe their duty , & to surcease from wrong . And so , if a Bishop for a cause not belonging vnto him , should excommunicate any , the Prince may commaund him to absolue 〈◊〉 party , whome vniustly he hath excommunicated , if the iniustice bee so apparant , as heere is presumed . But M. Attorney should haue proued , that the King himself might haue absolued him , as in truth he might , if he had Superiour authority to the Bishop in Ecclesiasticall causes : as he may absolue immediately by himself , all that are censured , or sentenced , adiudged , or condemned by his Chauncellour , lay Iudges , or temporall officers , and ministers : nor hath he need to send the party , to be assoiled by them , or to will them to doe it , as heer he doth the Bishop ; but might doe it himself , or by some other , giuing him authority thervnto , which yet neuer King of England did attempt before King Henry the 8. 19. To the 4. braunch is answered , 4 that by good reason it was agreed , that no religious man , hauing made his vow of obediēce in England , should seeke to Rome for exemption therof , without proposing his causes first in England it self ; for that otherwise , vpon false informations & suggestions of the party against his Superiours , many troubles and inconueniences might follow by such exemptions : and this is that which is touched in the Statute it self here alleadged , affirming ; that no man shall goe to Rome for that which may be determined in England , &c. And now consider ( I pray you ) what all these foure instances laid togeather , doe weigh in poyse of good reason . But let vs see further . 20. A fourth instance of M. Attorneys is taken out of a Statute of the 6. yeare of K. Henry the 4. 4 where the commons doe againe make complaint of other new aggreiuances by the Courte of Rome , to wit , that such as are to be preferred to Bishopricks , Archbishopricks and other Prelacyes , cannot be admitted , vntill they haue compounded with the Popes Chamber , for paying of the first fruites of the said benefices , and other dutyes required ; vvhervpon the King ( saith the Statute ) by the aduise , and assent of the Great men of his Realme in Parlament ( and note that he nameth not heer the spirituall Lords ) did ordaine , that whosoeuer should pay heerafter to the said Chamber , or otherwise for such fruites , and seruices , greater summes of money , then had byn accustomed in time past , should incurre the forfaiture of as much , as they may forfaite towards the King &c. So saith the Statute . 21. And now heere I would aske the discreet Reader , whether M. Attorney ouerthroweth not himself , by alleadging such matters as these are ? For heere King Henry alloweth manifestly the repaire to Rome of Bishops , Archbishops , Abbots , & other Prelates , for their induction & admittance to their dignityes , which he would neuer doe , if he had taken himself to haue supreme authority Ecclesiasticall in that behalfe , of giuing them spirituall iurisdiction immediately from himself . And albeit he doe binde them to pay at Rome no more then the ordinary accustomed paiments , for such their admittance : ( therby perhaps to induce the said Courte of Rome , to aske no more of them , when they should vnderstand that it was forbidden vnto them to pay it ) yet doth he allow not only their recourse to Rome in such affaires , but to make likewise the ordinary payments , which were accustomed to be paid in old times past , according to the words of the Statute ; which is sufficient to proue our purpose , and ouer-throw M. Attorneys . And thus much for the tyme of K. Henry the 4. For as for an other instance alleadged by M. Attorney conteyning a prohibition , that Buls for exemption of tythes from Parish Churches , should not be put in execution , for that the effect therof is repeated againe in the next obiection out of the raigne of K. Henry the fifth , one answere shall serue for them both . Out of the raigne of K. Henry the fifth , that was the fourtenth King after the Conquest . §. II. The Attorney . In an act of Parlament , made in the third yeare of K. Henry the 5. it is declared , that wheras in the time of K. Henry the 4. Father to the said King , in the 7. yeare of his raigne , to eschew many discordes , & debates , and diuerse other mischeifes , which were likely to arise and happen , by cause of many prouisions then made , or to be made by the Pope , and also of licence therevpon graunted by the said late King ; amongst other things , it was ordained , and established , that no such licence , or pardon so graunted , should be auailable to any benefice , full of any incumbent , at the day of the date of such licence or pardon graunted : Neuerthelesse diuers persons hauing prouisions of the Pope , of diuers ●●n●fices in England , and elswhere , and licences royall , to execute the same prouisions , haue by colour of the same prouisions , licences , and acceptations of the said benefices , subtily excluded diuers persons of their benefices , in which they had byn incumbents by a longe season , of the collation of the very patrons spirituall to them duely made to their intent , to the finall destruction , and eneruation of the states of the same incumbents : The King willing to auoid such mischeifes , hath ordained , and established , that al the incumbents of euery benefice of holy Church , of the patronage , collation , or presentation of spirituall patrons , might quietly , and peaceably enioy their said benefices , without being inquieted , molested , or any wayes greiued by any colour of such prouisions , licences and acceptations . And that all the licences , and pardons , vpon , and by such prouisions , made in any manner , should be voide , and of no valour . And if any feele himself greiued , molested , or inquieted in any wise , from thenceforth by any , by colour of such prouisions , licences , pardons , or acceptations ; that the same molestors , greiuers , or inquieters , & euery of them , haue and incurre the paines & punishments contained in the Statutes of Prouisors before that tyme made , as by the said Act appeareth . The Catholicke Deuine . 22. This Statute maketh as little for M. Attorneys purpose , of supreme authoritie spirituall , as anie of the former : and I haue set it downe at large , to the end you maie see , what smal store of stuffe he hath to furnish his booke , when he filleth paper with such impertinencyes : for that the whole subiect of this Statute tendeth onlie to the reforme of certaine abuses in some quarreling and troublesome people , who meaning to molest others , that were in quiet possession of their benefices , went to Rome , and there framing manie complaints , calumniatiōs , and accusations against them , and against the lawfullnes of their hauing those benefices , and pretending that the due collation thereof appertained to the Sea Apostolicke for diuers respects , demaunded onlie that the same Sea would giue her right vnto them , and so got out prouisions oftentimes to that effect : which prouisions it seemeth by the words of this statute , that K. Henry the 4. was content they should runne , and gaue royall licences for the same , and that the title should be tried , not withstāding the prohibitions of such prouisions made vnder K. Edward , and King Richard , as you haue heard ( and all this maketh against M. Attorney . ) But now K. Henry the 5. being informed of the inconueniences , that ensued therof , and that diuers incumbents were therby excluded of their benefices , and the patrons spirituall of their presentatiōs ; ordained , that for the time to come , no such incumbents , or patrons , should bee disquieted , or molested , by colour of such prouisions from the Pope of benefices , that are not actually voide , or by vertue of licences from the King for prosecuting the same . This is the Statute , and you see how little helpe M. Attorney getteth by it . But let vs see another instance out of this Kings raigne , as wisely alleadged as the former . The Attorney . " A Statute was made , for extirpation of heresie and Lollardy , wherby full power and authoritie was giuen to the Iustices of peace , and Iustices of assise to inquire of those that hold errors , heresies , or Lollardy , and of their maintainers , &c. And that the Sheriffe , or other officer , &c. maie arrest and apprehend them . Infoelix lolium , & steriles dominantur auena . Virgil. Et careant lolijs , oculos vitiantibus , agri . Ouid. The King by cōsent of Parlament , giueth power to Ordinaries to inquire of the foundation , erection , and gouernance of Hospitals , other then such as be of the Kings foundation , and thervpon to make correction , and reformation , according to the Ecclesiasticall law . The Catholicke Diuine . 23. If M. Attorneys store-howse of arguments were not extreme poore & emptie ; he would neuer alleadge such matter as this is , for demonstratiue proofes , which before he promised vs in his Preface . For out of the later example , that Ordinaries are appointed to inquire of the foundation , execution , and gouernment of Hospitals , what can be deduced for M. Attorneys purpose , or against vs ? For so much as the foundation , erection , and gouernment of Hospitals were for the most part meere temporall things , except some priuiledges graunted vnto them by the Sea Apostolicke . 24. And that in the former example , Iustices of peace and assise were commaunded by the King to inquire after Lollards , VVickcliffians , and such other hereticks , it was to apprehend , and imprison their persons , and not to iudge of their heresies , which belonged to their Bishops and Ordinaries , as you haue heard . And some cause might be also of this speciall commission for Iudges , and Iustices to assist Bishops ( and so no doubt it was ) for that the said Lollards , and VVickcliffians had not onlie been troublesome , and daungerous to the State , vnder the raignes of King Richard the secōd , and Henry the 4. but vnto the person and life of this man also some moneths before this Statute , by conspiring his death , and raising a daungerous rebellion in S. Giles field by London as both VValsingham , and other autho●s doe reporte : and therefore no maruaile , though authoritie be giuen , as heer is said , that the Sheriffes and other Officers maie a●●est & apprehend them : and what maketh this for M. Attorneys purpose ? 25. But further , I cannot but maruaile , at his note in the margent . Lollardy ( saith he ) is of lolio , which signifieth Cockle , for as Clockle is the destruction of the corne , so is heresie of true religion , and then doth he bring in two seuerall verses , the one of Virgil , and the other of Ouid about lolium , shewing himself thereby a good grammarian , though yet in the thing it self he was much deceiued . For that Lollards and Lollardy being a particular sect of hereticks , are not deriued from the latin word Lolium , signifying cockle or darnel , as the verie deriuation it self might easily shew ; but of the first author therof named Gualter Lolhard a German , about the yeare of Christ 1315. as Tritemius in his Cronicle declareth : and is larglie shewed in a booke some yeares past set forth in our English tongue by a Catholike writer , which if M. Attorney had read , he might easilie haue auoided this grosse mistaking . From which also , I maruaile , that his affectiō to the men , had not somewhat with-held him , for that they were of his religion , & not cockle , but good corne , if wee beleiue his great historiographer , and deuine , Iohn Fox , who setteth them out not onlie for good Christians , but for Saints and martyrs in his bookes of Martyrologe , Acts , and Monuments . But thus these men agree togeather . Out of the raigne of King Henry the sixt , the fiftenth King after the Conquest . §. III. 26. Out of this Kings raigne which endured most Catholiklie , for neere 40. yeares , though vnfortunately , through wars , sedition , and broiles of the Realme , M. Attorney findeth onlie these three poore instances ensuing , The Attorney . Excommunication made and certified by the Pope , is of no force to disable any man within England , and this is by the auncient Common laws , before anie Statute was made , concerning forraine iurisdiction . " The King only may graunt , or licence to found a spiritual incorporation . In the raigne of K. Henry the 6. the Pope wrote letters in derogation of the King and his regalty , and the Church-men durst not speake against them , but Humfrey Duke of Glocester for their safe-keeping , put them into the sier . The Catholicke Deuyne . 27. To the first hath been answered diuers times before , that it appeareth to haue been an agreement at that tyme in England , that the Popes Bulls of excommunication should not bee published by particular men , but with the certificate of some Bishop for more authoritie , &c. as it is now also vsed in diuers Catholicke Coūtries , for auoiding the fraudes and practice of particular inquiet people , that by false suggestions get Buls , &c. But that this was by the auncient Commō laws before anie Statute made , hath no probabilitie at all , as by the whole Course of our auncient Catholicke Kings hath been declared . And it groweth now somewhat loathsome and ridiculous , to see M. Attorney runne so often to this common Chymera of auncient Common-lawes , without shewing any , or any likeli-hood , that any such were , or could bee in auncient tymes amongst our auncestors , for that their religion , deuotion , sense , and iudgement ran wholy to the contrary in those dayes . Whervpon it followeth , as often we haue said , that if a Common-law could not be made , admitted , or authorized without some common consent of Prince and people ; it is vnpossible , that such common laws should then bee , as M. Attorney doth frame heer to his fansie , vpon euery occasion that pleaseth him . 28. That the King onlie maie graunt licence to found a spirituall incorporatiō , maie bee vnderstood in two sortes . First that the said incorporation , cannot bee made , or erected within his dominions , or founded with lands , goods , or rents , without his leaue , and licence , and this wee denie not . Secondlie that the said spiritual incorporation should haue her spiritualtie from the King , that is to saie , her spirituall and ecclesiasticall priuiledges of being such an incorporation belonging to the Church : And this wee haue seen by the practice of all times in England both before , and after the Conquest to haue been euer sought and receiued from the Sea Apostolicke , wherof wee haue a particuler demonstration set downe before in the 6. Chapter of this our Answere . 29. The last which he obiecteth of the fact of Humfrey Duke of Glocester , 3 that cast ( as he saith ) the Popes letters into the fire for their safe-Keeping , is rather a iest than an argument . And I maruaile M. Attorney , a man of his degree , would bring it forth , and print it also for an argument , whether the thing be true or false . For if it fell out , as heer is noted in the margent , vpon the first yeare of King Henry the 6. his raigne , when the King was but eight moneths old , and the said Duke his vncle Gouernour of the Land ; and in his cheifest ruffe , who afterward came thereby to soe pittifull a ruine , both of himself , his freinds , and the Realme ; euerie man maie see what force this iest maie haue , which yet I haue not read in anie other author besydes M. Attorney , and so to him I leaue it . OF THE RAIGNE OF FOVRE ENSVING KINGS , TO VVIT , Edward the fourth , Edward the fifth , Richard the third , and Henry the seauenth : And how conforme they were vnto their auncestours in this point of controuersie , which we haue in hand . CHAP. XIIII . THe line of Lancaster being put downe , and remoued from the Crowne , by the depriuation and death of K. Henry the 6. and his sonne , as before you haue heard ; there entred the howse of Yorke , with no lesse violēce of armes , and effusion of bloud , but rather more , then the other familie had done before by taking to it self the Crowne from the head of K. Richard the 2. For that Edward Duke of Yorke , by dint of sword , inuesting himself of the scepter , by the same maintained it , though with much trouble , feares , & iealousies , for the space of 22. yeares , and then thinking to leaue it quietlie to his sonne Edward the 5. ( though with protestation and oath at his death , as Syr Thomas More recordeth , that if he could as well haue forseene the vanitie of that ambition , as now with his more paine then pleasure he had proued , he would neuer haue wonne the curtesie of mens knees , with the losse of so manie heads ) the same was taken from him soone after , togeather with his life , by the cruell ambition of Richard Duke of Glocester , brother to the deceased King ; so little motion made his oration and protestation against ambition at his death , in the heart of him , that was so furiouslie set vpon the same , and desired to bee in his place . 2. This man entring then , with such boisterous and vnnaturall iniquitie of the slaughter of two of his Nephews , continued that violent gouernment , for two yeares and some what more , though with many afflictiōs , both inward , and outward , and finallie lost it againe with the losse of his life ; and proued with a shorter experiēce , then his brother King Edward had done before him , how much more paine then pleasure , that place brought to the violent possessor , especiallie if iniustice goe with it , which is the cheife origen , and fountaine of all disasterous small successe . 3. This man therefore being taken away by the sword of Henrie Earle of Richmond , called afterward King Henrie the seauenth , he held the same for 24. yeares , with different successe in different times : for that the former parte of his raigne wanted not waues and sourges , and some troublesome motions , as in reason it could not , so manie great tempests , and fierce stormes hauing inquieted the sea before . But the later parte of his raigne was more calme , milde , and sweet , hee hauing partlie by his ofspring and linage , and partlie by his marriage stopped that great breach , and inundation of miseries , that brake into our Realme , by the diuision of the two howses of Lancaster and Yorke , and partlie also by his prudent moderation , and gouernment of the Crowne , so calmed and quieted mens minds , humours , and passions , as they tooke delight to liue in peace ; and in this state he left his Realme to his heire , and successor King Henrie the eight . 4. These foure Princes then , succeeding ech one the other in the Crowne of England , and holding the same between them for the space of 50. yeares togeather , excepting one or two , though one of them were not crowned , but ought to haue byn , which was King Edward the fifth , & another was crowned that should not haue byn , to wit King Richard the third ; howsoeuer otherwise in regard of linage , family , faction , pretention , or succession they were opposite or different one from another in affection , iudgement , or action , for temporall affaires : yet in profession of religion , were they all one ; all , and euery one of them professing the same faith , and holding the same forme of Christian Catholicke religion , which all their auncestors had done , both before and after the Conquest . And this not only in other matters , but in the very point also of our controuersie , concerning the practice and acknowledgement of the soueraigne spirituall authority of the Church & Sea Apostolicke of Rome ; which may breifly , besides all other means , be demonstrated by these reasons following . 5. First for that none of them was euer noted for the contrary , which they would haue byn , eyther by freinds or aduersaryes , if any such occasion had byn giuen by them ; especially in that great and bloudy contention , between the two houses of Yorke , and Lancaster , wherin both partes did desire to haue the fauour and approbation of the Sea Apostolicke , and good opinion of the Clergy at home . And if any least signe , or signification had byn giuen by any of these Princes , of different iudgment or affection in this behalfe ; their aduersaryes would haue vrged the same presently , to their preiudice and disgrace , which we read not to haue byn done . 6. Secondly the practice of the said authority and iurisdiction of the Sea Apostolicke vsed vnder these Kings , as vnder all former , except only the manner of execution in two or three particular cases , before mentioned , that were conioyned with temporalityes , doth euidently conuince the same : as namely that all English Bishops , Archbishops , and other Prelates , being elected or nominated to any dignity , had euer their Buls and confirmation from Rome , and the Metropolitans their palls . The Archbishops also of Canterbury , that liued with these Kings , Thomas Bewser , Iohn Morton , Henry Deane , and VVilliam VVarham ( who was the last Catholicke Archbishop that held that Sea immediatly before Thomas Cranmer . ) All these ( I say ) besides other points of testifying their obedience , and subordination to the said Sea , did according to the auncient stile of their Catholicke predecessours , write themselues Legats of the Sea Apostolicke , as may be seen in Fox , and other Protestant-writers , in relating their commissions , in sitting vpon hereticks , &c. 7. Thirdly the said Iohn Fox doth sett downe in his storie of Acts and Monuments more wickcliffian Sectaries and Lollards to haue been condemned and burned vnder these Princes , then commonly vnder anie other before ; which Sectaries ( as is knowne ) did principallie impugne the spirituall authoritie of the Sea of Rome ; which thinge it is likely the said Princes would not haue done , or permitted , if they had been euill affected themselues that waie . And the said Fox in the end of King Henry the 7. his life , doth set forth many painted and printed pageants of the Popes Greatnes in those daies , more then euer before . 8. And finally not to labour more in a matter so manifest , and cleere of it self ; there was neuer more intercourse between England and Rome for spirituall affaires , then vnder these Princes , to witt for inductions , and inuestitures to all spirituall iurisdiction , as hath been said , for dispensations , indulgences , interpretations in doubtfull matters , priuiledges , franquises , & Charters for confirmation of Churches , Chappels , Colledges , or Monasteries that were buylded : diuers Embassages also were sent to Rome , and speciall Legats were sent to England vpon particular vrgent occasions . And as these kings had allwaies their Orators , ledgers in that Court , so had the Popes of that time their ordinarie Nunci●s , yea and Collectors also of their temporall commodities in England , as wee may read in Polidor , who , among others commēdeth highly the learned Cardinal Hadryan , who had been the popes Collector , vnder K. Henry the 7. as himself also was , vnder K. Henry the 8. This then maie bee sufficiēt , for some generall notes and proofes of this truth : for that to prosecute particulars in this Kind , were ouer tedious . Now then shall wee passe to peruse and answere briefly the instances , which M. Attorney citeth out of the raignes of these Kings , as little to his purpose as the former . Instances out of the raigne of K. Edvvard the fourth , the sixtenth King after the Conquest . §. I. The Attorney . 6. In the raigne of K. Edward the 4. the Pope graunted to the Prior of S. Iohns , to haue Sanctuarie within his Priorie , and this was pleaded and claimed by the Prior ; but it was resolued by the Iudges , that the Pope had no power to graunt anie Sanctuarie within this Realme , and therefore by iudgment of law the same was disallowed . The Catholicke Deuine . M. Attorney repeateth still the word Law , to shew thereby that he is a lawyer , and delighteth in the word that hath byn so beneficiall vnto him ; but yet alleadgeth here no law at all , nor can he doe . For what law is that , by iugment wherof the Sanctuarie of S. Iohns Church in London graūted by the Pope , was disalowed , for so much as all other Sanctuaries had , and haue from that Sea , their franquises , and liberties ? Was it Common-law , or Canon and Ecclesiasticall ? Not Ecclesiasticall . For that all such law dependeth from thence , and consequently cannot be supposed to haue disanulled the Popes authority in graunting Sanctuary . Common law if it were , it must appeare how it came in , by whom it was admitted , by what right it came to haue conusaūce of this Ecclesiasticall cause , which M. Attorney so often hath denyed before to apperteyne to his Common-law , wherof ensueth that eyther those temporall Iudges exceeded their limites in handling this cause , or that there was some temporall circumstance therein that brought it into that Courte . 10. And surely it may bee that this Sanctuarie pretended by the Prior of the Knights of S. Iohns in London , might not onlie bee the ordinary Sanctuarie of their Church and appurtenances thereunto ( which all Churches haue by Canon law more or lesse ) but also of some greater circuite , round about their said Church and habitatiō ; which ( they being Knights and souldiars ) might importe some inconueniences to the common wealth by occasion of contentions , fights , & brawles that might there fall out , the temporall officers hauing no accesse by reason of the said pretended Sanctuary . And so this case not being meere spirituall , but mixt also with temporall interest of the Common-wealth , the common Iudges , vntill the matter were better discussed and resolued in ecclesiasticall right , might put difficultie about the admission or execution of the said priuiledges , without the Kings expresse consent . And this is answered , according to M. Attorneys allegation ( supposing it to bee sincere ) not hauing by me the bookes , as before I haue said , out of which he hath taken the same , the view whereof no doubt would discouer more , therfore I recommend the examination to the Reader , that may haue commoditie to see , and read the places . But let vs see another Instance of two more of his , out of this Kinges raigne . The Attorney . There it appeareth that the opinion of the Kings-bench had been oftentimes , that if one spirituall person , sue another spirituall man in the Courte of Rome , for a matter spirituall , where he might haue remedy before his Ordinary , that is the Bishop of that Diocesse within the Realme ; Quia trabit ipsum in placitum extraregnum , incurreth the daūger of a Premunire , a hainons offence , being contra legiantiae suae debitum , in contemptum Domini Regis , & contra ●oronam , & dignitatem suas . By which it appeareth how greiuous an offence it was , against the King , his Crowne , and dignity , if any subiect , although both the persons , & cause were spirituall , did seeke for iustice out of the Realme , as though either there wanted iurisdiction , or iustice was not executed in the Ecclesiastical Courts within the same , which as it hath byn said , was an high offence contra Regem , Coronam , & dignitatem suas . The Catholicke Deuine . By this instance a man may greatly suspect , that M. Attorney dealeth not sincerely , but amplifieth and exaggerateth matters to his purpose . But howsoeuer this bee , cleere it is , that he dealeth not substantially . For heere only the note alleadged , saith that the opinion of the Kings-bench had byn oftentymes , that if one spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall person , should sue another in the Courte of Rome , when he might haue remedy before his Ordinary at home , he incurreth the daunger of a Premunire ; for that he draweth a Plea out of the Kingdome without necessity . Well then : this is but the opinion of some temporall lawyers of the Kings-bench , that a man that should doe this , should be in daunger of a Premunire , for that he draweth a Plea out of the Kingdome , when he might haue sufficient remedy by his spirituall Iudge at home . And this is according to the Statutes before made , vnder King Edward the third , and Richard the second , as you haue heard , that matters may not be carryed to Rome , at the first instance , but by way of appellation , when they cannot haue iustice at home . And this taketh not away the Popes authority , as you see , but rather confirmeth the same , and punisheth only disorderly people , that will vex , and trouble men , with citing them to Rome without necessitie . 12. Which being so , you will see , how friuolous M Attorneys exaggeration is heer , in painting out vnto vs with so great an hyperbole of words this haynons offence , against the duty of loyalty , in contempt of the King our Lord , and contrary to his crowne and dignity , &c. And why is all this adoe ? For that ( saith he ) a subiect of the realme doth seeke for iustice out of the Realme in spirituall causes , as though there wanted iurisdiction or iustice within the Realme , which is an high offence contra Regem , coronam , & dignitatem suas . Whereto I aunswere , that what high offence it may be against suas ( here twise repeated in the English , but corrected by the Latyn Interpreter ) I know not , but sure I am , that against King , Crowne or Royall dignity it can be none , no more in England then in other Catholicke Kingdomes round about vs. And the reason here alleadged by M. Attorney excludeth all appellations betwene subordinate Courts , as wel within the Realme , as without , if it should be admitted and taken for good . Wherefore when he writeth in the margent , Note , as though some great argument were alleadged for his purpose , It is a note that he hath small store of substance to note , when he standeth so much vpon such a toy . The Attorney . In the Kings Courts of Record , where felonies are determined , the Bishop or his deputy ought to giue his attendance , to the end that yf any , that is indicted , and arraigned for felony , doe demaund the benefit of his Clergy , that the Ordinary may informe the Court of his sufficiency , or insufficiency , that is , whether he can read , as a Clarke , or not , wherof notwithstanding the Ordinary is not to Iudge , but is a minister to the Kings Court , & the Iudges of that Court , are to Iudge of the sufficiency , or insufficiency of the party , whatsoeuer the Ordinary doe informe them , and vpon due examination of the party , may giue iudgement against the Ordinaryes information : For the Kings Iudges , are Iudges of the cause . The Catholicke Deuine . 13. I am content to admitt anie iudges in this cause , whether it be not impertinent to M. Attorneys purpose , to bring in this instance . For howsoeuer he goeth about in words to dazel this case , yet is it euident , that for so much , as the Church by her priuiledge of Superioritie , taketh out of the hands of temporall iustice , men condemned to dy for felony , onlie for that they can read like Clerkes , though they bee no Clarkes indeed ( for if they were , and had but so much as primam tonsuram , they could not bee held , nor iudged by that Court as often before hath byn shewed ) it is euident where the eminencie of authoritie laie in those daies , to wit , in the spiritualtie , aboue the temporaltie : & vayne it is to stand vpon other trifling circumstances , whether the Bishops deputie sent to demaund the liberty of those felons by law , did giue attendance vpon the Kings Courts , or no ; or whether he , or the Iudges that were lay-men , must iudge of this sufficiēcy or insufficiency ; whether the fellon did read as a Clarke , or not . For if the temporall Iudges must discerne therof , as M. Attorney auerreth , then in vaine was the Bishops Deputy called thither , without whom it might haue byn done by the Iudges alone . But if he were of necessity to be called thither , and vpon his oath , to pronounce , si legit vt Clericus , and that vpon his verdict , the Iudge must giue sentence to admit the fellon to the benefit of Clergy , and thervpon to haue pardon of his life , and to be deliuered vnto the Bishops prison , as of higher authority : then is it manifest , that this instance impugneth rather , then helpeth M. Attorneys assertion , as commonly doe all the rest , when they are well examined . The Attorney . The Popes excommunication is of no force within the Realme of England . In the raigne of King Edward the 4. a Legat from the Pope came to Calles , to haue come into England , but the King and his Counsell would not suffer him to come within England , vntill he had taken an oath , that he should attempt nothing against the King or his Crowne ; and so the like was done in his raigne to another of the Popes Legats , & this is so reported in 1. H. 7. fol. 10. The Catholicke Deuyne . 14. The first parte of this instance , about the validitie of the Popes excōmunication , hath oftentimes been answered before , what circumstance , and conditions were agreed vpon , to bee obserued in the execution thereof , for auoiding inconueniences , that came by false suggestions of some troublesome people , and among other , that it should allwaies bee directed to some B●s●op , whose certificate should bee required for the lawfvllnes therof , as before hath been shewed out of the 3. yeare of K. Edward the 3. & hath appeared also before out of King Richards Statute , where all the Bishops expounded themselues , that it was not meant to derogate by that Statute from the Popes authoritie , to excōmunicate , &c. And in this very place , and next words after this present instance , hath M. Attorney another instance out of King Richard the 3. in these words . It is resolued by the Iudges , that the iudgment of excommunication in the Courte of Rome , should not bind , or preiudice anie man within England at the Common-law . Wherby is cleerly declared the meaning of the former cause , to wit , that the popes excommunication , which is a spirituall sentence , or punishement for spirituall affaires , may not preiudice temporall all suites at the Common-law in temporall matters ; and it is not much sinceritie in M. Attorney , to alleadg these parcells of his Iudges determinations so nakedly , as he doth , without distinction , or explication , to the end his simple Reader may be put in error therby . 15. The other instance of the Popes Legate staied at Calles , and not suffered to come into England , vntill he had taken an oath to attempt nothing against the King , or his Crowne ; sheweth that King Edward rather doubted , and feared his authoritie , then contemned or denied the same ; especially he being in that controuersy about the Crowne , as then hee was , and the Pope interposing his spirituall authoritie , between K. Henry the 6. and him . And as well he might alleadge the example of the Popes messenger detained in Calles , by commaundement of King Phillip , and Q. Marie , when he brought the Cardinals hat , from Paulus 4. to Friar Peto , for that the said Princes would not suffer him to come into the Realme , vntill they had otherwise informed the said Pope by their Embassadours in Rome , that the same was not expedient . And yet did not this proue , that they either contemned the Popes authoritie , or thought this soueraigntie of spirituall iurisdiction to bee in themselues . And it is a case , that often falleth out in the affaires of Catholicke Princes with Popes , when they doubt anie thing will proceed against them from the said Sea Apostolicke , to keep off the execution , or notification therof by what means they can , vntill matters bee compounded . And we haue had many examples therof before , namely in the raignes of K. Henry the 2. K. Iohn . K. Henry the 3. and two King Edwards following him , who fearing excommunication , were vigilant in prohibiting , that no messenger from Rome should enter the Realme without their licence , which was an argument rather of their esteeme , then disesteeme of that place , and power . Out of the raigne of K. Henry the seauenth , who was the nyntenth King after the Conquest . §. II. In the raigne of K. Henry the 7. the pope had excommunicated all such persons whatsoeuer , as had bought alume of the Florentines , and it was resolued by all the Iudges of England , that the Popes excommunication ought not to bee obaied , or to bee put in execution , within the Realme of England . In a parlament holden in the first yeare of King Henry the 7. for the more sure , & like reformation of Priests , Clerks , & religious men culpable , or by their demerits openly noised of incontinent liuing in their bodies , contrarie to their order ; it was enacted , ordained and established by the aduise and assent of the Lords spiritual and temporall , and the Commons in the said Parlament assembled , and by authoritie of the same , that it bee lawfull to all Archbishops , and Bishops , and other Ordinaries hauing Episcopall iurisdiction , to punish , and chastise Priests , Clercks , and religious men , being within the bounds of their iurisdiction , as shall bee conuicted afore them by examination , and lawfull proofe requisite by the law of the Church , of aduowtry , fornication , incest , or anie other fleshly incontinency , by committing them to ward & prison , there to abide for such time , as shall bee thought to their discretions conuenient , for the qualitie , and quantitie of their trespasse . And that none of the said Archbishops , Bishops , or Ordinaries aforesaid bee therof chargeable , of , to , or vpon anie action of false or wrongfull imprisonment , but that they be vtterly therof discharged in anie of the Cases aforesaid , by vertue of this Act. Rex est persona mixta , because hee hath both Ecclesiasticall and temporall iurisdiction . By the Ecclesiasticall laws allowed within this Realme , a Priest cannot haue two benefices , or a bastard can bee a Priest , but the King may by his Ecclesiasticall power , and iurisdiction , dispense with both of these , because they be Mala prohibita , and not Mala per se. The Catholicke Deuyne . 16. Heere are three or foure instances , for breuityes sake layed togeather in one , as also , for that they are of so small substance , as they deserue not to be handled a part . For as to the first , concerning the buying of alume of the Florentines , who doth not see , but that it is a temporall case , wherin the Realme of England , or Marchants therof being interessed , the State might pretend iust cause to differre the admission , or execution of the Popes sentence of excommunication , touching that affaire , vntill they had better informed him of the truth , or iustice of the cause in their behalfe : For this is vsed ordinarily by all Catholicke Princes and States euen at this day . 17. The second obiection about the punishment of Priests and Clergy-men , by their Bishops and Archbishops , hath nothing in it at all , that may make for M. Attorneys purpose . For that heere is not giuen by Parlament , any new spirituall iurisdiction to Bishops & Archbishops , but some temporall enlargement is graunted to the same . As for example , that they may not only suspend , and excommunicate , and punish by their spirituall censures , such licentious persons of life ; but may corporally punish them also , by imprisonment and other wayes , as heere is set downe . And least any in such cases might make recourse vnto the temporall magistrate , saying that they were imprisoned wrongfully , and contrary to the common secular laws of the Realme , this refuge is cut of by this Statute , and absolute power giuen to Bishops & Archbishops , to punish in such cases , as well corporally , as spiritually : wherby also appeareth that such delicts of Clergy-men , were in those dayes to be inquired of , and punished only in the Bishops Courts , and not in the temporall , which was a dignity , and no small preheminence of the Prelates of England , aboue many other Countreys , who neither then , nor now , haue the like absolute preheminence in all things , as before hath byn shewed . For that diuers cases , and causes doe appertaine only to spirituall Courts in England , which are handled also by secular magistrates in sundry other countreys ; as namely that of Testaments , and the like . And this is to be ascribed to the speciall piety , & deuotion of our Catholicke Kings and Countrey . 18. As for the third point wherin M. Attorney saith : Rex est persona mixta , adding this reason , because he hath Ecclesiasticall and temporall iurisdiction ; Whosoeuer maketh this instance , either M. Attorney , or some other author of his , he little seemeth to vnderstand what is needfull to induce Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction ; wherof he may need more at large in the second Chapter of this booke . And as for the person of a King , it may be named mixt in some other respects ; as namely for that a King is annointed , and therby hath somewhat of a Clergy-man also , though absolutely he be a lay-man , as you haue heard before the great Christian Emperour Valentinian professe of him self , Quod erat vnus de populo : that he was a lay-man , and not a Clergie-man . He is likewise head of the whole Common-wealth , wherin are members , both Clergy , and lay-men , as before hath byn said ; and in that respect , is he head of both partes , and consequently mixt , or common to them both . But all this induceth not necessity of spirituall iurisdiction , except it be committed vnto him , from the Church , and Prelates therof , in whome originally it is , as in the forenamed place we haue abundantly declared . 19. And the like wee answere finally to the fourth and last obiection , wherin it is said , that the King maie dispense with a bastard to bee made Priest , and with a Priest to haue two benefices , and this by his Ecclesiasticall power and iurisdiction . The matter must bee distinguished , that the King maie dispense , or giue his consent in these cases , for so much as toucheth the Common wealth , or maie bee hurtfull vnto it , and no otherwise ; which is to say , so far forth as it maie importe , or preiudice the Commō-wealth , that bastards not inheritable should be Priests , or one Priest hold manie benefices . But then this dispensation is not by anie iurisdiction spirituall , as M. Attorney would inferre , but temporall onlie of the Prince , as hee is head of the Common wealth . For as concerning spirituall dispensation appertaining to conscience , for so much as the prohibition that Bastards shall not bee ordained Priests , was not made first by temporall Princes , but by the auncient * Canons of the Church , none can dispence properly therin , but he that is spirituall head of the whole Church , or some other by his commission . 20. And by the same reason ( for that spirituall iurisdiction ouer soules , which is the iurisdiction of him that hath a benefice , cannot bee truely giuen , or deliuered to anie man , but by him that hath it in himself , to wit , some Prelate of the Church , that hath it from the fountaine of succession from the Apostles , as before hath been declared ) it followeth that none which hath not this iurisdiction , by this means in himself , can giue anie benefice to anie man , and much lesse two , or manie benefices , that is to saie , spirituall iurisdiction ouer manie flocks to one man , except hee onlie , that hath superior and mediate spirituall iurisdiction ouer the said flocks , and their soules . And heerby wee see , that standing in the principles , and grownds before set downe , and manifestly proued , M. Attorneys instance is to no purpose at all , to the effect and sense wherin hee would haue it vnderstood . 21. And this shall suffice for this place , and for the raignes and liues of all Christian Princes of our Realme , that liued in vnion , and conformitie of one religion , and acknowledgment of one supreme authoritie spiritual of the Sea Apostolicke of Rome , from the first to the last , that is to saie , from King Ethelbert , that receiued the first grace of our conuersion to the Christian Catholicke Roman religion , vnto King Henry the 7. inclusiuè , who being the last , and neerest English auncestour to his Maiesty that now is , and succeeding after aboue a hundred and twenty English Kings of the same religion , ended happely also his life & raigne therein , without any change or alteration . And if this sonne had followed the same course , and held it out to the end , as he did for two partes of three of his raigne , he had byn thrice happy ; but Gods prouidence , for his , and our sinnes permitted otherwise : We shall therfore see breifly the manner , means , occasions , motiues , and euents therof in the ensuing Chapter . OF THE RAIGNE OF K. HENRY THE EIGHT , And of his three children , King Edward , Queene Mary , and Queene Elizabeth : And how the first innovation about Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , was made , and continued in their dayes . CHAP. XV. NOVV are we come vnto the time wherin great change indeed , and alteration was made in our Countrey by particular Statutes , and Nationall laws ( so far forth as a perpetuall , and vniuersall receiued truth by nationall and temporall decrees could be altered ) in the foresaid point of spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . For that K. Henry the eight , after two partes of three , of his raigne , wherin he had not only acknowledged and practised , according to the vse of all his predecessours , but singularly also defended , and propugned by publicke writing , the Catholicke consent of all Christendome , concerning the Soueraignty of the Sea of Rome therin ; did at length vpon certaine occasions of particular distast , anger , and exasperation , falling out betweene Pope Clement the 7. and him , about the diuorce of his wife Queen Catherine , daughter of Spaine , and the marriage of Lady Anne Bullen in in her place ( to neither of which the said Pope would consent ) make strange innouations by little & little , as first threatning and the said Pope , then substracting some of his authority , and giuing it to others , and finally taking all vnto himself . Which deuise being once begun , was continued after his death , by the gouernours of his young sonne King Edward , though with lesse probability and apparance of truth , as before hath byn noted , & then reiected againe by his daughter Queene Mary , who restored the same whence it was taken , but reassumed , though in a different deuise of words , by his second daughter Q. Elizabeth , that least of all was capable of it , as in precedent chapters hath byn declared . So as heere , though M. Attorney doth euery where talke of auncient laws , and common consent , there is neither anquity , vnity , conformity , consent , or continuance of anie moment to bee found ; which will better appeare by that wee haue briefly to touch of ech one of these Princes raignes in particular . Of King Henry the eyght , who was the twentith King after the Conquest . §. I. 2. This Prince succeeding his father King Henry the 7. in the flower of his youth , when he was but 18. yeares of age , but adorned with many rare graces , both of mind and body , tooke the scepter in hand with as great expectation of his people , & neighbours round about him , as euer did Prince of our land before , or after him : and for the space of more then 20. yeares performed the same in all points of an excellent Prince , both in peace , and warre , vntill he fell into that vnfortunate , & fatall breach with his wife , and Queene , and disordinate appetite of the other , that succeeded her ; whervpon ensued all those strange and vnexpected mutations which afterward were seene , one thing giuing occasion , and making way to the other , as the euents declared . 3. But among all other points of Catholicke doctrine , no one was more obserued by this King , while he remained in his auncient peace of mind , then that of his due acknowledgment , subordination , and respectiue correspondence with the Sea Apostolicke ; which being in his dayes begun to be impugned , togeather with many other points of Christian religion , by Martyn Luther an Apostata Friar of Germany , and his followers : King Henry out of his great zeale and feruour towards the said religion , and Sea Apostolicke , tooke vpō him to write a special learned booke in defence therof against the said Luther , which booke he sent to Rome , presenting it to Pope Leo the tenth , subscribed by his owne ●and ( which I haue seen ) by a speciall Embassadour for that purpose , Doctor Clerke Bishop of Bath and VVells , that made an earnest speach and eloquent oration at the deliuery therof , in protestation and commendation of his Kings high and resolute zeale in this behalfe ; all which being extant in print , I remit the Reader thervnto , for his better satisfaction . 4. Only I cannot pretermit to recite in this place , some of his words which he vseth in that booke in defence of the Popes Ecclesiasticall Supremacy , which himself afterward vpon new passions rising , so greatly impugned . Thus then he wrote against Luther in those dayes : Non tam iniurius ero Pontifici , vt anxiè & sollicitè de eius Iure disceptem , tanquam res haberetur pro dubia , &c. I will not offer so much iniury vnto the Pope , as earnestly and carefully to dispute heere of his right , as though the matter might be held in doubt : it is sufficient for that which now we haue in hand , that his enemy ( Luther ) sheweth himself so much to be carried away with passion and fury , as he taketh all faith and credit from his owne sayings , cleerly declaring his malice to be such , as it suffereth him neither to agree with himself , nor to consider what he saith . So be . 5. And then after a large confutation of Luthers fond opinion , and furious assertion , that the pope neither by diuine or humane law , but onlie by vsurpation and Tyrannie , had gotten the headshipp of the Church , K. Henry vseth two stong reasons and arguments against him , among other , to represse his maddnes therein . The first of generall consent from antiquitie , saying : Negare non potest , &c. Luther cannot deny , but that all the faithfull Christian Churches at this daie , doe acknowledge and reuerence the holie Sea of Rome , as their mother and Primate , &c. And if this acknowledgment is grounded neither in diuine nor humane right , how hath it taken so great and generall roote ? How was it admitted so vniuersally by all Christendome ? When began it ? how grew it to bee so great ? And wheras humane consent , is sufficient to giue humane right at least , how can Luther saie , that heer is neither diuine nor humane right , where there is , and hath been for time out of minde , so vniuersall humane consent ? &c. Certe si quis rerum gestarum monumenta reuoluat , inueniet iam olim , protinùs post pacatum orb●m plerasque omnes Christiani Orbis Ecclesias obtemperasse Romana , &c. Truly if a man will looke ouer the monuments of things , and times past , he shall find that prefently after the world was pacified ( from persecution ) the most parte of Christian Churches did obay the Roman : yea and the Greeke Church also , though the Empire were passed to that parte , wee shall find , that shee acknowledged the Primacy of the same Romane Church , but only whē shee was in Schisme . And as for S. Hierome though he were no Roman ; yet did hee in his daies ascribe so much authoritie and preheminence to the Roman Church , as he affirmed that in matters of great doubt , it was sufficient for his faith , to bee allowed , and approued by the Pope of Rome , &c. This is the first argument vrged by King Henry of antiquitie and consent . 6. Another hee alleadgeth of impossibilitie , for the Pope to haue attained by force and Tyrannie , to so great authoritie , as he had , according to Luthers calumniation ; the effect is this . Cum Lutherus tam impudenter pronunciet , &c. Whereas Luther so impudētly doth affirme , that the Pope hath his Primacie by no right , neither diuine , nor humane , but onlie by force and Tyrannie , I doe wonder how the mad fellow could hope to find his Readers so simple , or blockish , as to beleiue that the Bishop of Rome , being a Priest , vnarmed , alone , without temporall force , or right either diuine or humane ( as he supposed ) should bee able to get authoritie ouer so manie other Bishops his equals , throughout so manie and different nations , so far off from him , and so little fearing his temporall power : or that so manie People , Citties , Kingdomes , Common-wealths , Prouinces , and Nations would bee so prodigall of their owne libertie , as to subiect themselues to a forraine Priest ( as now so manie ages they haue done ) or to giue him such authoritie ouer thēselues , if he had no right therevnto at all . 7. But what shall I stand to dispute with Luther in this matter ? Or what importeth it , what he saieth or beleeueth therin , for so much as through anger , and enuie , he knoweth not himself what he thinketh or saith , but declareth well the saying of the Apostle to be true in himself : Cor ipsius insipiens obscuratum , itaditumque in reprobum sensum ; That his foolish heart is darkned , and deliuered ouer vnto a reprobate sense . So King Henry , pronouncing , as you see , a heauy iudgment against Luther now , and himself afterwarde , when he fell into the same darknes , and not only obscuritie of vnderstanding , but inconstancie also of proceeding , which heer so eagerly hee obiecteth to Luther , for this he writeth of him . Quis non eius miretur inconstantiam , &c. who will not wonder at Luthers inconstancie , for a little before , he wrote in his bookes , that the Papaltie , though it were not by diuine right , yet was it by humane , to witt by humane consent for the publik good of the Church , and therevpon condemned and detested the sect of the Hussites in Bohemia , for that they had cut themselues off from the obedience of the Roman Sea , affirming that they sinned damnably , whosoeuer obaied not the Pope . This he wrote verie lately ( since his fall from Catholicke religion ) but now he is run into that , which then he so much detested . And like inconstancy he hath shewed in another point also , which is ; that hauing preached of late in a certaine Sermon to the people , that the Popes excommunication was to bee obaied , and patiently be borne , as a medecine in a disease . Whē himself afterwards was most worthily excommunicated , he tooke that sentence of the Pope so impotently , as seeming to be mad , or fallen into rage , he brake forth into such contumelious speaches , and blasphemies , as no Christian eares can abide to heare the same : so as by his furie he hath made it euident : Eos qui pelluntur gremio matris Ecclesia , statim furijs corripi , atque agitari daemonibus . That those which are cast out from the lap of their mother the Church , are taken presently with suries , and vexed with diuells . Thus far K. Henry , and much more to this effect , which for breuityes sake I pretermit . 8. And now let vs with greife of mind , & some terror of conscience , looke ouer , and reflect vpon that which happened afterward vnto this King himself , and into what extremes of passion and choller he fell in his writings and Statutes against this very Supremacy of the Pope ( when he was excommunicated by him ) which heere he defendeth against Luther , though in other points of doctrine he remained still opposite to Luther , euen vnto his dying day . 9. It is worthy the noting also , what mutability and inconstancy he vsed , not only in the whole thing ( to wit , in d●●●ing the Popes Supremacy ) but in the very manner also of falling into that extremity . For first , for many yeares after the writing of this his booke , which was in the yeare of Christ 1521. he continued so deuout and obedient to the said Sea of Rome , as no King in Christendome more , as may appeare by the mutuall good offices of loue , & friendship , that passed between them . And when six yeares after this againe , Rome was spoiled by the army of the Duke of Burbon , & Pope Clement the seauenth held as besieged in the Castle of S. Angelo , no King or Prince of Christendome was more forward in the ayd of the said Pope , then K. Henry of England ; as may appeare by his great , and famous Embassadge sent that very yeare into France by Cardinall VVolsey about that matter , in the yeare 1527. to draw the King of France into the association of that aid and help . 10. And when againe the next yeare after , King Henry began to moue his doubt or question about the lawfullnes of his marriage with Queene Catherine , he referred the whole matter to Rome , and procured Iudges to be sent from thence , as namely Cardinall Campegius , that was directed from Rome the selfsame yeare into England for Legat , with like commission for Cardinall VVolsey to be ioyned with him , as deputyes from Pope Clement , to heare , and iudge the matter , before whome sitting in iudgment , both K. Henry and Queen Catherine being cited personally to appeare , they made their appearance in the Church of the Black-Friars in London , in the moneth of Aprill anno Domini 1529. which was the one and twentith of King Henryes raigne . And albeit King Henry being offended , that by this means of these two Legats ( the Pope accepting of the Appeal of Queen Catherine , & recalling the matter to himself ) he could not haue his wil , did put from his fauour soone after Cardinall VVolsey , when the other was departed , and brought him to the miserable end which is well knowne , yea & condemned for his sake , the whole Clergy of England , in a Premunire , that is to say , the losse of all their goods , which afterward they redeemed with a submission , and payment of a hundred thousand pounds , for that they had acknowledged the said Cardinals Legantine authority , which himself had procured from Rome ; yet did not he for this , surcease to send other Embassadours to continue the solicitation of the same suite of diuorce , in the said Court of Rome : and namely among others , Doctor Stephen Gard●●● , the Kings chiefe Secretary , soone after made Bishop of VVinchester , who was sent thither ( as Stow and others doe testifie ) presently after the departure of Cardinall Campegius in the same yeare 1529. Neither did King Henry leaue of to hold his Embassadours , Lawyers , and Procurators there about this matter , for two or three yeares after this againe , vntill he saw there was no hope to get his diuorce by that means ; and on the otherside was resolued to marry the Lady Anne Bullen whatsoeuer came of it , and so did in the yeare 1533. and 24. of his raigne . 11. Thus then you see the beginning and progresse of the cause of King Henryes breach with the Sea Apostolicke , which probably would neuer haue byn , if he could haue obtained his will that way ; but falling into despaire therof , tooke resolution to cut the knot , which otherwise he could not vndoe . But the manner of his proceeding may be best seen by two Acts of Parlament set downe heer by M. Attorney the one of the 24. the other of the 25. yeare of King Henryes raigne : for that in the former , which was in the yeare of his marriage with Lady Anne Bullen , as hath byn said , he prohibited all appeals in causes Ecclesiasticall to the Court of Rome , reducing all spirituall authority of determining the same vnto the body spirituall of the English Clergy ; for so the words of the statute are : The body spirituall of the English Church ( saith he ) hauing power , when any cause of the law diuine happened to come in question , or of spirituall learning . &c. to declare , and determine all such doubts , & to administer al such offices , & duties , as to their roomes spiritual did appertaine , without the intermedling of any exteriour person , or persons , &c. Wherby it appeareth , that by this Statute he reduceth all spirituall power to a certaine community of the Ecclesiasticall body of England ; but in the second Statute , that followed in the yeare after , against suing for licences , dispensations , facultyes , graunts , rescripts , or delegacyes to Rome , he seemeth to establish all authority in the Archbishop of Canterbury , that was then Thomas Cranmer , newly made by himself for allowing of his marriage with Lady Anne Bullen ; for so he saith in the statute : That the Archbishop of Canterbury for the tyme being and his successours , shall haue power and authority from tyme , to tyme , by their discretions , to giue , graunt , and dispose , by an instrument vnder the seale of the said Archbishop , vnto the King , and vnto his heirs & successours Kings of this Realme , as well , all māner of such licences , dispensations , compositions , facultyes , graunts , rescrips , delegacyes , instruments , and other writings for causes not being contrary , or repugnant to the holy scriptures , and lawes of God , as heertofore had byn vsed , and accustomed to be had , and obtained by the King , or any his most noble progenitors , or any of his , or their subiects at the Sea of Rome , or any person , or persons by authority of the same , &c. 12. Lo heer King Henry giueth authority to the Archbishop of Canterbury , to giue vnto him ( to wit , to King Henry himself , and his successors Kings of England , and their subiects ) all dispensations , which they were wont to ●●ke , and obtaine at the Popes hand : so as heer , he acknowledgeth , that in former times , that authority belonged to the Pope , and that his auncestors and progenitors were of that opinion ; but that now he being offended with him , he would take it from him , and bestow it vpon the Archbishop of Canterbury , subiecting himself and his inheritours , to aske , and obtaine the said dispensations at his hands , and his successours , which was ( as you see ) to make Archbishop Cranmer Pope , and not himself for this yeare , as the whole body of the English Clergy was for the yeare past . 13. And wheras it is euident that King Henry gaue this authority to Cranmer for dispensing &c. to the end he should dispense with him for marrying of the said Lady Anne Bullen ; it seemeth strange , that he would vse this so ridiculous circuyt , as first to giue authority by Parlament to Cranmer , to be able to dispense with him ( to wit with King Henry the giuer ) and would not take immediatly , either by himself , or by Parlament , authority to himself , to dispense with himself . But it is well seen , that he had some remorse , or shame-fastnes therin at the first beginning , though the very next yeare after he amended the matter , or rather made it worse by assuming it to himself . For calling another Parlament vpon the 26. of his raigne , he made the first Statute of all , with this Title : An act concerning the Kings Highnes to be Supreme head of the Church of England , and to haue authority to reforme , and redresse all errors , heresies , and abuses in the same . Wherby you may see , what gradation was vsed in this matter , or rather mistery , giuing this power first to the Community of the English Clergy , secondly to the Archbishop of Canterbury , and thirdly to himself ; and all this in three distinct yeares immediately following one the other . 14. And now , if mens euerlasting saluation must depend vpon these mutations of spirituall iurisdiction , as no doubt they did in thousands of our Countrey at that tyme ; and if the eternall wisdome of our Sauiour Christ hath left no more certainty , for direction of our soules , by spirituall gouernement and authority , then this of our English Parlament , which changeth so often and easely , as you haue heard , vpon euery Princes particuler inclination ; then are we ( doubtlesse ) in a pittifull plight : for that ( as hath byn declared before ) of the certainty of this spirituall power , for binding or loosing of our sinnes , for Sacramēts , instructions , directions , and all other spirituall helps , and assistance in this life , dependeth the surety of our euerlasting saluation , or damnation in the life to come . 15. But to goe forward a little further in this matter , now we haue King Henry head of the Church , and M. Attorney , no doubt , is glad therof for helping of his cause , though it help it but little or nothing at all , it being the first example that euer could be giuen therof in England , or elswhere throughout the Christian world , and so much the more to be misliked , if we beleiue Iohn Caluin in his sharp reproofe of this attempt , which he calleth Tyrannicall , & Anti-Christian . But M. Attorney ( perhaps ) will not care for Caluin or Beza , or any of their followers in this point , for that it maketh not to his purpose . Well then , he must notwithstanding graunt this in all reason , that if this supreme authoritie spirituall was wel and rightly , and by gods direction , spirit , and allowance taken vpon himself , by King Henry ; then is it likely , that he was guided also by the same spirit afterward in making his decrees , laws , and ordinances for directing , and gouerning the English Church by that authority , and especially for reforming , and redressing of all errors , heresies , and abuses therin , according to the speciall title of his said authority before set down ; wherof it followeth , that when vpon the 31. yeare of his raigne , which was fiue after the said authoritie giuen him , hee calling a Parlament , determined six mayne and principall articles of protestant religion to bee heresies , to witt : The deniall of the reall presence : of the communion vnder one kind only : That Priests may marrie : That vowes of chastitie may bee broken : That priuate masses are not lawfull : That sacramentall , or auricular confession is not necessarie ; appointing them that should hould any of these heresies ( so cōdēned by him ) to be burned as notorious hereticks : it followeth ( I say ) that this was decreed by him out of the same spirit , and direction of god ; for that otherwise , his Ecclesiasticall supremacy had byn to small purpose , if there were no certainty in his determinations , or that God would permit him to erre so grosly in so importāt a busines as this was for the whole Church of England , so soone after he had ginen him his said supreme authoritie Ecclesiasticall . 16. And that this was done by him against the Protestants with great deliberation , consultation , aduise , & maturity in the fullnes of his power Ecclesiasticall , appeareth well by the words of the Statute , which are these : VVhere the Kings most excellent Maiesty , is by gods law , supreme head immediatly vnder him , of his whole Church of England , intending the conseruation of the same Church , in a true , sincere , and vniforme doctrine of Christs religion , calling also , to his blessed , and most gratious remembrance , the innumerable commodities which ensue of concord , and vnity in religion , &c. hath therfore commaunded this his most high Court of Parlament to be summoned , as also a Synod of all the Archbishops , Bishops , and other learned men , to bee assembled , &c. for a full , and persect resolution of certaine Articles proposed ( which are the former six ) ; his Maiesty also most gratiously vouchsafing in his owne Princly person , to descend , and come into his said high Courte , and Councell , and there like a Prince of most high prudence , and no lesse learning , opened and declared manie thinges of high learning & great knowledge touching the said Articles , matters , & questions ; whervpon after great , and longe deliberate disputation and consultation , had , and made ; it was finally resolued , as before , &c. 17. Thus you see , how maturely this matter was done , and resolued by the new head of the English Church , and his Counsell : which resolution not withstanding , I presume , M. Attorney and those of his religion will not well allow à parte rei ; though for his authoritie , they may not denie it , according to their owne grounds , in that he did contradict therin the Popes : and so in this respect they seem to bee but in pittifull plight , for that neither the one , nor the other head serueth well their turnes . And with this wee shall leaue King Henry the 8. who in all the rest of his raigne ( which , as hath byn said , was but the third parte after his spirituall headship , of that he had raigned before , in acknowledgment of the Popes Supremacie ) his Decrees , Ordinances , and actions though they were inconstant & variable ; yet were they all ( except this only controuersie of the Popes authoritie ) against Protestants , and their religion , as appeareth both by his solemne condemning and burning of Iohn Lambert for denying the Reall presence , the next yeare after this Statute was made ; as also of Anne Ascue and others , vpon the last yeare of his life , for the same heresie , and of manie others for other Protestant-opinions ; so as I doe not see how M. Attorney can much glorie in this first headshipp of his Church of England , especially that being true , which Bishop Gardiner preached , and protested publikely at Pauls Grosse in Queen Maries time , that K. Henry dealt with him a little before his death for reconcyling himself to the Pope , by restoring to him his authority againe , if with his honour it might bee brought to passe , but before this could bee treated he died , and thereby was frustrated of his good purpose therin . The answere to certaine Instances of M. Attorney out of this raigne of K. Henry the eight . §. II. 18. And this might suffice for King Henries raigne , but only that M. Attorney , vpon the recitall of certeyne of the said Kings Statutes made by himself , for his owne spirituall Supremacy , ( which I hold not needfull for me to stand to answere ) he moueth a doubt , and answereth the same in such sorte , as is worthy of consideration . His doubt is , that for so much as K. Henry was now declared head of the Church , and all Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction taken from the Pope in England , and in English affaires ; what shal become of the Canons , or Canon law , togeather with the Constitutions and Ecclesiasticall Ordinances depending of the Church of Rome , wherby the spirituall Courts of England were wont to bee gouerned ? you shall heare his answere in his owne words . The Attorney . If it bee demaunded ( saith hee ) what Canons , Constitutions , Ordinances , and Synodals Prouinciall are still in force within this Realme ? I answere , that it is resolued , and enacted by authoritie of Parlament ; that such as haue been allowed by generall consent , and custome within the Realme , and are not contrariant or repugnant to the Laws , Statutes , and Customes of this Realme , nor to the damage or hurte of the Kings prerogatiue Royall , are still in force within this Realme , as the Kings Ecclesiasticall laws of the same . Now , as Consent , and Custome hath allowed those Canons ; so no doubt by generall consent of the whole Kealme , anie of the same maie bee corrected , enlarged , explained , or abrogated . For example , there is a decree , that all Clerkes that haue receiued anie manner of Orders , greater or smaller , should bee exempt pro causis criminalibus before the temporall Iudges . This decree had neuer anie force within England . First , for that it was neuer approued , and allowed of by generall consent within the Realme : Secondly it was against the laws of the Realme , as it doth appeare by infinite presidents . Thirdly it was against the prerogatiue and soueraigntie of the King , that any subiect within this Realme , should not bee subiect to the laws of this Realme . The Catholicke Deuine . 19. Heere you see two points touched in this answere : First the resolution it self , and then the confirmation therof by a speciall example . The resolution is very ambiguous , doubtfull , and vncertaine , if you consider it . For he saith , that such Canonicall laws are to bee still in force , as were allowed by generall consent , not contrariant to the laws , statutes , and customes of this Realme , nor importe anie dammage to the Kings prerogatiue Royall . And what are these thinke you ? And how vncertaine a rule is this prescribed for laws , whereby matters of conscience must be determined ? Who may not say in his owne case , or others ; this Canon , or Constitution , though it be of neuer so auncient Councels , or Decrees of the Church , ( for of such consisteth the Canon-law ) was neuer allowed by generall consent of England ; this is contrariant to some Statute or Custome ; this importeth dammage to the Kings prerogatiue Royall : and so indeed by establishing this new headship , the whole body of Ecclesiasticall regimēt was ouerthrowne , though M. Attorney to salue the matter , saith ; that the said Canonicall lawes should remaine still in force ( with the restrictiōs aforesaid ) as the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes ; which is as much to say , as that these Canon-lawes that were made by generall Councels , Nationall or Prouinciall Synods , and by the Popes of Rome themselues , shall not remaine as their lawes , but as the Kings lawes , for that he retaineth them : of which poore refuge I haue spoken often before , how weake and idle it is . 20. But now for his particular example , chosen out to proue that the generall Canonicall lawes of the whole Church receiued throughout Christendome , may be corrected , and enlarged , explaned & abrogated by a particular Countrey ( which is contrary to the common Maxime , that no law can be abrogated , but by the same authority , by which it was made and allowed , or greater ) I cannot but maruaile , that he would insist vpō the exemption of Clerks from secular tribunals , no one thing in all the libertyes and priuiledges of the Church and Church-men , being more ordinary , not vsuall , nor generally receiued , then this ; though M. Attorney presumeth to affirme heere , that this Decree had neuer any force within England , which seemeth to me so manifest an vntruth , as I marueile he would affirme it so flattly . For , to let passe all that I haue said before in the second Chapter of this our confutation , for the confirmation of the exemptions of Clerks , their persons , and goods , out of the Decrees of auncient Christian Emperours , that ratified the Church-Canons in that behalfe , and the conformity therevnto of our Christian Kings before the Conquest , handled in the 5. & 6. Chapters of this booke ; besides this ( I say ) the assertion of M. Attorney may euidently be ouerthrowne by all the laws , vse , and custome since the said Conquest ; and namely , and expressly by the laws of the Conquerour himself , recited before by me in the 7. Chapter of this answere , which were continued by all the said Conquerours posterity , vntill the tyme of King Henry the 3. when written Statutes had first their beginning & namely that of Magna Charta , by which lawes and Statutes the said priuiledge and exemption was often and ordinarily ratified and confirmed . 21. As for example , in the third yeare of King Edward the first , sonne to the said King Henry , the Statute speaketh thus : when a Clerke is taken for guylte of felony , and is demaunded by the Ordinary , he shall be deliuered to him , according to the priuiledge of holy Church , on such perill , as belongeth to it , after the custome aforetymes vsed , &c. Behold the contradictory words to M. Attorneys , that said this decree had neuer any force , nor was approued in England . The instance also of Bigamyes alleadged before by M. Attorney , and answered by vs in the 11. Chapter of this booke , vnder the raigne of this King Edward the first , doth euidently confirme that which we say , and refuteth M. Attorney . For that the Kings Counsell refusing there to deliuer certaine felons demaunded by the Prelates , in respect only that they were Bigamyes , or had byn twice marryed , & therby were excluded , by the generall Councell of Lions , from the priuiledge of Clergy-men ; this ( I say ) doth shew , that before that Councell , Bigamyes also had that priuiledge by the Latin words of the law , wherin it is said : Praelati tanquam Clericos exig●runt sibi liberandos : These prelates or Bishops did exact , or require those felons to be set free vnto them , as Clerks ; & doth manifestly declare , that they demaunded it by the knowne law of the land , generally receiued in those dayes . 22. And conforme to this , vnder King Edward the second , sonne to the former Edward , we find the law to speake in these words , A Clerke flying to the Church for felony , to obtaine the priuiledge of the Church , if he affirme himself to be a Clerke , shall not be compelled to abiure the Realme , but yeelding himself to the law of the Realme , shall enioy the priuiledges of the Church , according to the laudable customes of the Realme heeretofore vsed . So there ; where you see that this was no new thing in those dayes . 23. And I might ad to this , diuers other like Decrees of the succeeding Kings , as namely of King Edward the third , in the 18. and 25. yeares of his raigne , and of King Henry the 4. in the 4. yeare of his raigne , vnder whome it is written in the records of Canterbury Church , that the Archbishop Arundel seeing this ancient priuiledge of the Clergy to haue byn somwhat weakned by former Kings , he dealt with the said King Henry effectually , and obtained , saith the Register , vt vetus Cleri praerogatiua , per Regem renouaretur , ne Clerici ad Regium tribunal raperentur . That the auncient prerogatiue of Clergy-men might be renewed by the King , that Clerks should not be drawne to the Kings tribunall . And this was a point so notoriously knowne in England in those dayes , as when vpon the yeare 1405. in the said King Henry the fourth his raigne , the Archbishop of Yorke Richard Scroope , togeather with some others of the nobility , had risen in armes against him , and the King in his choller would needs haue him condemned and executed ( as he was ) Gaston the cheife Iustice ( as Harpesfield noteth out of the said Bishops life , and the addition of Poli-chronicon ) knowing that by the law , he could not be condemned by a secular Iudge , refused to sit vpon him , and so he was condemned by Syr Raph Euers , and Syr VVilliam Fulthrop knights , authorized therevnto by the Kings armed commission ; wherof the Clergy greatly complaining , Pope Innocentius the seauenth excommunicated the doers , and denounced to K. Henry , by the Archbishop of Canterbury , that he would proceed in like manner against himself , if he gaue not good satisfaction in that behalfe , but he dying soone after , and a great schisme thervpon ensuing in the Roman Church , nothing was done . 24. But much auncienter then this , wee might alleadge diuers examples out of the raignes of King Henry the 3. and Edward the 3. wherof wee haue made mention also in parte before , treating of their times , as of one Peter Ri●all , who had been Treasurer to King Henry the 3. and being apprehended by the Kings commission and to bee sent to the Tower , said to him thus , as Matthew Paris writeth . Domine , Clericus sum , nec debeo incarcerari , vel sub Laicorum custodia deputari . My leige , I am a Clerke , and therefore I ought not to bee imprisoned , nor to bee kept vnder the custody of Laie-men . The King answered . Te , vt laicum hactenûs ges●isti , à te igitur , vt à laico , cui meum commisi thesaurum , exigo . Thou hast borne thy self hitherto as a laie-man , and therefore , as of a laie-man , to whom I committed my treasure , I exact an account of the same . And for that he was found with armour vnder his Clergie attyre , both for this , & because the Archbishop of Canterburie there present , seemed not willing to answere for him , he was sent to the Tower , yet after two daies ( saith our author ) he was deliuered againe thence by the said Archbishop , and carried to VVinchester , and there left in the Cathedrall Church . 25. And some fiue yeares after that againe , one Raph Briton , a Clerke and Cha●on of S. Pauls Church , who likewise had been K. Henries Treasurer , being accused to the said King of diuers crimes touching treason , and by his commission to the Maior of London , apprehended and sent to the Tower , was by the instance of the Clergie , vrging their said priuiledge , dismissed . Rex dictum Ranulsum ( saith Paris ) licet inuitus , solui , & in pace dimitti praecepit ; the King though vnwilling , commaunded the said Raph to bee let forth of prison , and peaceably dismissed . So as this exemption was no new thing at that time , as M. Attorney would haue it seeme . And of King Edward the third , aboue a hundred yeares after that againe , Thomas VValsingham alleadgeth this confirmation of the said priuiledge in his time : Quod nullus Clericus sit arrei ratu● coram Iustitiarijs suis , siue ad sectam suam , siue partes , si Clericus suae Clerimoniae se submittat , dicens , se membrum Ecclesiae Sanctae non debere ipsis Iustitiarijs respōdere . That no Clerk maie bee arraygned before the Kings Iustices , at the suite of the said King , or of anie other party , yf the said Clerk doe submitt himself to his Clergie , affirming , that hee being a member of holy Church , ought not to answere to the said Iustices . So VValsingham . And this shall bee sufficient to meete with the assertion of M. Attorney to the contrary : and herewith shall we end our speach of King Henry the eight . Of King Edvvard the sixt , the one and twentith King after the Conquest . §. III. 26. This younge Prince being but a child of 9. yeares old , when his father King Henry died ( as often hath been said ) was by his Tutors and Gouernours , especially his Vncle Earle of Hartford ( after made Duke of Somerset ) and some others that followed his appetite in the desire of innouation about matters of religion , declared Head of the Church , vnder the same stile , as his father had been before , and by that headship and pretence therof , they took to thēselues authoritie to make that change , which after ensued , partly to the opinions of Luther , & partly of Zuinglius ( for Caluin was not yet so famous , or forward in credit for some years after ) and to ouerthrow and alter in effect all that King Henry by his headship had ordained , and established before , concerning religion , as may appeare by the seuerall and particular repeals of the most parte of all his Statutes , touching that affaire , except only this of his departure from the Pope , and obedience of the Sea Apostolicke . 27. But yet one principall declaration , and important constitution they added in this matter ( as before hath been touched ) aboue that of King Henry ( according to the saying , facile est inuentis addere ) and this is , that whereas the Father K. Henry taking from the Pope his accustomed iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , did transferre it vnto his Clergie of England , and afterward declaring himself Spirituall head of that Clergie , did consequentlie inferre , he was head of the English Church also in spirituall matters , yet did he not explaine from what origen properly , this spirituall power did flow : which point the said Gouernours of the child-King Edward did interprete and decide , shewing that all spirituall iurisdiction , power , and authority ouer soules , by loosing or binding of sinnes , or other spirituall actions , in Bishops , Prelates , and Priests , proceeded , and was deriued from this young child , who yet notwithstanding , as ech man may consider , was not of yeares to haue perfect vse of reason for disposing so much as temporall matters , and how much lesse in spirituall . For so affirmeth plainly S. Paul to the Galathians . Quanto tempore haeres par●ulus est , nihil differt à seruo , cum sit Dominus omnium , sed sub tutoribus , & actoribus est , vsque ad praefinitum tempus à Patre . All the time that the heire is young , or vnder age , though he be Lord of all by inheritance , yet doth he differ nothing from a seruant or bound-man ( in subiection ) but is vnder Tutors , and Administrators , vntill the tyme of his age appointed by his Father . So the Apostle . 28. And if then this young King had not yet authority , as of himself , to dispose of any temporall affaires , which are of much lesse moment ; we may easily consider , what may be thought of spirituall , and Ecclesiasticall , that require more the vse of reason , and iudgement , for exercising of iurisdiction therin , then doth the other . But you will say ( perhaps ) that the same Tutors , and Administrators , that gouerned him in secular , & Ciuill affaires , might take vpon them also iurisdiction in the spirituall likewise : and so the Duke of Somerset ( for example ) with his assistants , might be secondary or Vicar-heads of the Church of England vnder him for the tyme , to absolue , or bind sinnes , determine of heresies , dispose of Sacraments , and the like . 29. But to this ●s easily answered , according to the principles set downe in the secōd Chapter of this booke , that for so much , as all temporall power is giuen first of all by God , in the law of Nature vnto the people or multitude , who thereby haue authority to transferre the same to what manner of gouernement they like , either Monarchie , or other ; it followeth also , that the Common-wealth that had authority to choose , or appoint the state of Kings to raigne ouer them , had , and hath power to giue sufficient authority in like manner , to Tutors and Administrators , to gouerne the said Common-wealth in temporall affaires , during the tyme of their Kings minority or non-age : But that the origen of spirituall power comming not by this way of the people , nor being giuen to them at all , but immediatly by Christ our Sauiour to his Apostles , and their Successours , Bishops and Prelates , by lawfull Ordination and Succession of Priesthood , and imposition of hands to the end of the world ; no temporall Tutors , or Administrators could rightly get into this authority , except they were first made Priests , and this also by Caluins opinion and assertion , as well as ours , as * before hath byn declared . 30. By this then wee see , how ; and by what assurance this headship of the Church , and supreme Ecclesiasticall authoritie therof , passed from the Father to the sonne , which was such , as it liked not M. Attorney to alleadge anie one Statute of this mans time against vs , though all in deed were made against vs , and against the said Father , as maie bee easily imagined , considering the Current of that time . And the very first of all was in fauour of Luthers opiniō , about the a Reall presence , which afterward they changed into that of Zwinglius . They changed also twyce their b Communion booke , and forme of seruice and Sacraments : first vpon the second and third yeares of King Edwards raigne , and secondly vpon the 5. and 6. as appeareth in the particular Statutes of those yeares . They repealed a great number of K. Henries Statutes , as by name concerning treasons c and heresies . They repealed his famous Statute for Precōtracts d in marriages ; as also dissolued diuers of his e Courts , that he had set vp . And finally they respected nothing the said King Henries headship , nor his prescription or direction therin , but follow●d their owne for the time that their power endured : And yet all was published vnder the name of the Ghospell , and New reformation , established by negociation in Parlament , as though the matter had proceeded from very sound and founded Ecclesiasticall authoritie . And this for that time , wherof M. Attorney alleadging no one example against vs , I haue no further need to enlarge my self . Of the raigne of Queene Mary , the two and twentith Princesse after the Conquest . §. IIII. 31. As M. Attorney doth pre●ermitt the memorie of Queen Mar●e without mentioning her at all ; so could I haue done also , but that my purpose is to passe through the raignes of all our Princes , without ouerpassing of anie . And it maie serue also to our purpose , to consider therby the broken and interrupted succession of this new headshipp in the Father , sonne , and daughters . For as the Father by his Act , had contradicted all his auncestors Kings of England before him , from the beginning of their Conuersion vnto his daies ; so his sonne , though succeeding him in the participation of that act , yet contradicted him in all the rest that hee decreed , touching matters of religion , by vertue of that headshipp after him : & then came th' elder daughter , who cōtradicted them both , and restored all to the auncient state againe , wherin it had cōtinued throughout the race of al her auncestors progenitors of England and Spaine , for a thousand yeares and more . So as heer M. Attorneys prescription can bee verie small , for so much as his whole thrid therof was broken and cut of by Q. Marie , and consequently he must begin againe with Q. Elizabeths raigne , as the fountaine of all his deduction . 32. And for so much as Queen Marie hauing , as a deuout , obedient , and Catholicke Princesse , returned al things belonging to religion , to their auncient state and cōdition , wherin her Father found them , and her Grand-father left them , shee repealed , and mortified all such Statutes of innouations and new deuises , as shee found to haue been made vpō anie occasion , or fansie what soeuer , during the time of her said Father and brother , reducing her self in obsequium fidei , to the humble obedience of that only faith , which had been held , and practised in Christs vniuersall Church , and namely also in England , from the beginning vnto her said Fathers daies ; punishing likewise diuers of the heads and authors of those new innouations and alterations , that had been made : and mamely and aboue others , the chiefe author and instrument of all , Thomas Cranmer Archbishop of Canterburie , who entring Catholikly , as was thought , into that dignity , was the first Archbishop that euer failed , or dissented in his faith frō the rest , or from the obedience , and subordination to the Sea Apostolicke , and so by gods iudgmēt , came to bee a stange example of a miserable end , to bee burned publikly for his heresies ; and for that in particular , against which his noble and learned predecessours , Lanfrancus , Anselmus , and other Archbishops of Canterburie , had foughten most famously , aboue other learned men , when it first sprang vp in Berengarius , the first author and inuentor therof , in the daies of VVilliam the Conquerour ; I meane , the deniall of the Reall presence in the blessed Sacrament , which of all other heresies , was most hatefull vnto him , for whose sake , Cranmer first of all declined to schisme and heresie , I meane King Henry the eight ; yea and to himself also for a tyme , after the others death , as may appeare by the foresaid first Statute , made cheifly by his authority , in the first yeare of King Edwards raigne , in fauour of the said Reall presence against the Sacramentaryes . 33. All which being so , euery man may behold what ground , or certainty there was in those dayes , or is now , for men to leave the Catholicke knowne religion , and cast the saluation of their soules vpon such alterations , as these were . For that after Queen Mary , who had restored all to the auncient state , as hath byn said , came her younger sister Queen Elizabeth , a Lady of some fiue and twenty yeares of age , who by little and little altered all againe , agreeing in all points neither with the one , nor with the other , neither with them that had made the former alterations , but brought in a new and distinct forme and fashion of beleiuing & worshipping God , peculiar to it self in diuers points , and differing from all in some . Of which innouation by the said younger sister against the elder ( they being the only two Queens that euer haue raigned in their owne right within our land , since the beginning of Christianity ) we shall now passe to speake a few words , and so end this whole discourse of our English Princes , and their religion . Of the raigne of Queen Elizabeth , who was the three and twentith Princesse after the Conquest , and last of King Henryes race §. v. 34. This Lady being the daughter of King Henry and Queene Anne Bullen , comming to raigne after the foresaid Queen Mary her sister , was persuaded to resume , and take to her self that supreme spirituall power and iurisdiction , which Queen Mary her elder sister had refused , and caused to be restored to the place and persons , from whom it was taken by her Father and brother . And I say she was persuaded therevnto , for that it is the opinion of many men that knew her , and conuersed with her , both before and after her entrance to the Crowne , that she had neither great desire to take it at the beginning , nor opinion that she might doe it ; but only that she was told , it was necessary to her present state at that time , in regard of diuers Popes sentences past against her legitimation , & the lawfullnes of her Parents marriage , and the pretense of the Queen of France and Scotland at that tyme , vpon 〈◊〉 supposed desect , to the Crowne of England , as due to her , ●●ough the others illegitimation . 35. For remedy of all which , it was made a matter necessary , that she should take the said authority Ecclesiasticall from the Pope and Sea of Rome , and place it in her self , especially when by negociation of some that desired the change , it was brought about , that the Parlamēt should offer it vnto her vnder this plausi●● Title of , An Act for restoring to the Crowne the ancient iurisdictiō of the 〈◊〉 Ecclesiasticall and spirituall ; and the act it self so cunningly , and ●●●ertly penned , as before hath byn said , as throughout the same ●●re is not found so much as once mentioned or named , The head of the Church , which euery-where is iterated & vrged in the Statutes , that gaue the same power to her Father and brother ; but in steed therof , commeth in the deuise before mentioned of Supreme Gouernesse , with authority to visit , reforme , correct errors , heresies , c●●ses &c. And al this for sweetning the matter ( as a man may say ) to this Lady at the beginning , who ( besides the other reason of Caluins mislike & reprehension therof before mentioned in King Henry the eight ) had little opinion , or appetite of the matter in those dayes , not being ignorant ( for that she was of excellent wit ) how strange a thing it would seeme in the world , to haue one of her sex Supreme in sacred and Ecclesiasticall matters , i● ijt ●ua sunt ad Deum , to vse S. Pauls words in this case , that is to say , in those things , that are to be handled with God for men , or between God and man. 36. But being tolde by some in good sadnes at that time ( and M. Attorney offereth to stand to it now ) that this authority was no new thing , or ( to vse his words ) not a Statute introductorie of a new , but declaratorie of an old , and that the same was conforme to the auncient laws of England , acknowledged , and practised by all her auncestors , Kings of the same , and that the difference of her sex , as they had qualified the matter , and couched their words , did hinder nothing at all the acceptance of this authority ; shee was content to lett it passe , & admitt therof for the time , though I haue beene most credibly informed , by such as I cannot but beleiue therein , considering also her forsaid sharpenes and pregnancie of witt , that vpon diuers occasions ( especially for some yeares after the beginning of her raigne ) she would in a certaine manner of pleasantnes iest thereat herself , saying : Looke what a head of the Church they haue made mee . 37. And to the end that no man may imagine , that these things , & some other , which heer I am to touch of the good dispositiō , this deceased Princesse had of her self , towards Catholicke religion at the beginning of her raigne , and for diuers yeares after , if she might haue been permitted to her owne inclination , are fayned ; I doe affirme vpon my conscience , in the sight of him that is author of all truth , and seuere reuenger of all false-hood , that nothing hereof is inuented , or framed by mee , but sincerely related vpon the vndoubted testimonies of such as reported the same , out of their owne knowledge . As for example that not longe before the death of Q. Marie , a cōmission being giuen to certaine of the priuie Counsell , to goe and examine the said Ladie Elizabeth at her howse of Hat-field , not far from London , when other matters had been debated , shee taking occasion to talke with one of them a part in a window , said vnto him with great vehemencie of spirit , and affliction of mynd , as it seemed , laying her hand vpon his : Oh Syr ! and is it not possible , that the Queen my sister , will once bee persuaded that I am a good Catholicke ? Yes , Madame , quoth the Counsellor , if your Grace bee so indeed , God will moue her Maiestie to beleiue it . Wherevpon the said Ladie both sware and protested vnto him , that she did as sincerely beleiue the Roman Catholicke religion , as anie Princesse could doe in the world : & in proofe thereof , alleadged the order of her familie , which was to heare masse euery daie , and the most of them two , one for the dead , and the other for the liuing . And this hath the said * Counsellour oftentimes related vnto mee and others , hee being a man of great grauity , truth , and sinceritie in his speeches . 38. And cōforme to this , I haue seen a letter written in Spanish from the said howse of Hat-field , vnto K. Philip then in Flaunders , by the Count of Fer●● , afterward Duke , and then Embassadour for the said King in England , which letter was written vpon the 16. daie of Nouember in the yeare 1558. when Queen Marie being now extreme sicke , and annealed , & out of all hope of life , he went to visit the said Princesse Elizabeth from his Maister , and relateth all the conference , and speach he had with her , and her answers to diuers points concerning her future gouernment , with his opinion of the same , both in matters of 〈◊〉 and religion : concerning the latter wherof , though hee discouered in her a great feeling and discontentment of certaine proceedings against her , in her sisters time , and therevpon did fore●●some troubles like to ensue to some of them , that had been in ●●fe gouernment , and namely to Cardinall Poole , if he had liued : 〈◊〉 wrtieth he , that for the Principall points of Catholicke faith ●●en in controuersie , he was persuaded , she would make no great ●●teration , and in particular he affirmeth , that she protested vnto vnto him very sincerely , that she beleiued the reall presence in the Sacrament , after the words of consecration pronounced by the Priest. 39. Which relation of this noble man is much consirmed by that which was written to the said Queene herself , some six or seauen yeares after , by Doctor Harding in his dedicatory epistle before the confutation of the English Apologie of the Church of England , vpon the yeare 1565. wherin he commendeth her liking of her more sober preachers : both allwayes heertofore ( saith he ) and specially on Good-friday last openly by words of thanks , declared , when one of a more temperate nature then the rest , in his sermon before your maiesty , confessed the Reall Presence . So he . And that this opinion , and affection staied and perseuered with her , euen vnto her old age by her owne confession , I haue for witnes another Worshipfull knight yet aliue , who vpon the truth of his conscience hath often protested vnto me , that hauing occasion to walke , & talke with her , and to discourse somewhat largely of forraine matters ( for that he was newly come frō beyond the seas ) in her garden at VVhitehall , not aboue fiue or six yeres before her death , & relating vnto her among other things , the iudgment and speaches of other Princes concerning her excellent partes , of learning , wisedome , bewty , affability , variety of languages , and the like ; but especially the speaches of certaine great Ladies to this effect , vpon viewing of her picture ; the said knight seeing her to take much contentment therein , and to demaund still greedily what more was said of her , he thought good ( asking first pardon ) to ad the exception that was made by the said Ladies , to wit , how great pitty it was , that so rare a Princesse should be stained with heresie , wherat her Grace being much moued , as it seemeth , answered : And doe they hold me for an heretick ? God knoweth what I am , if they would let me alone ; and so auouched vnto him in particular , that she beleiued the Reall presence in the Sacrament , with other like protestations to that effect . 40. And sundry yeares before this againe , there being sent into England from France , one Monsieur Lansacke of the French King Counsell , that was Steward in like manner of the Queen-mothers houshould ( as before hath byn mētioned ) he was wont to recount , & testifie after his returne , with great asseueration , that hauing had confident speach with the Queen of England , about matters of religion , she told him plainely that which before we touched about her spirituall Supremacy , to wit , that she knew well inough that it belonged not to her , but to S. Peter , and his Successours , but that the people , and Parlament had layed it vpon her , and would needs haue her to take , and beare it . Adding moreouer her Catholicke opinion about other points in controuersie also , and namely about Praying to Saints , affirming that euery day she prayed herself to our Blessed Lady . And so far forth had she persuaded this to be true to this French Counsellour , as he did not only beleiue it , and reporte it againe with great confidence , but was wont to be angry also , with such as should seeme to make doubt of the truth therof : among whome , for one , was a worshipfull gentleman of our owne Countrey yet liuing , that resided then in that Court , and had often conference with the said Monsieur Lansacke about the matter . 41. And by all this we may see , that the said Queen was drawne to many things against her owne inclination , & much resistance she made at the beginning , for diuers dayes , to admit any change of religion ; and therevpon presently euen before her Coronation , she caused proclamation to be made , that none should preach ( saith Stow ) but such as should be appointed ; & that no rites , or ceremonies vsed in the Church should be altered , but as it was in her owne Chappell ; and this , to preuent such innouators , as she knew would presently be doing , if they were not preuented : against whom she would often speake bitterly and contemptuously in secret with certaine * noble men , whom she knew to be Catholicke , complayning of their importunity , and signifying her owne good affection toward Catholicke people , and that she was vrged on , by those other , far beyond her owne inclination ; which she declared in like manner by keeping the Crosse , and crucifix of Christ in her Chappell for diuers yeares , against the bitter exclamations of the said turbulent people , wherof the forenamed Doctor Harding giueth testimony also in his said epistle dedicated to herself saying : Your constant bearing and vpholding of the banner , and ensigne of our redemption ( the image I meane of Christ crucified ) against the enemyes of his Crosse ; your Princely word commaunding a Treacher , that opened his lewd mouth agains● the Renerend vse of the said Crosse in your priuate Chappell , to retire from that vngodly digres●●● , vnto his text of holy scripture , &c. doth well shew your good inclination . So he . 42. And all this I haue thought good ( omitting many other things to this effect ) to mention in this place , for some parte of excuse ( if it may be ) of the many and greiuous afflictions laid vpon her Catholicke subiects afterward by her authority , for profession of the said faith and religion , which herself at the beginning seemed not to mislike . And surely her example may be a dreadfull president , how far , and daungerously Princes may be led by arte , and importunity of others , if they be not wachfull to resiste them at the beginning . For that this Princesse , notwithstanding her milde & gentle disposition , which you haue heard , was drawne on by little and little , to make more greiuous Statutes , Decrees , and Ordinances , against that parte of her subiects ( which might haue byn held vnited vnto her ) then euer ( perhaps ) did Prince before her , either Pagan or Christian , against any sorte of malefactors whatsoeuer . 43. And of this , let the multiplicity of statutes extant against them be witnes , the death of so many Priests , and others of that religion , yea of her deerest and neerest in bloud , that then was liuing , togeather with the imprisonments , vexations , and tribulations of innumerable good subiects for that cause ; which brought her finally , after many troubles and terrours , distrusts and iealousies , to that melancholike afflicted state of mind , wherin she died . All which had byn auoided , if ( to vse her owne phrase ) they would haue let her alone , and left her to her owne disposition , and mylde inclination ; but now the accoumpt must remaine vnto herself . 44. And so to conclude , for so much as these Statutes , which M. Attorney doth mention heer to haue byn made by her against Catholickes , and principally against the spirituall iurisdiction of the Sea of Rome , and braunches therof , did not so much proceed of her owne proper inclination and disposition , if we beleife the former testimonies , as of other mens instigation ; or if they did , they were made in defence of her owne Ecclesiasticall Supremacy newly taken , or laid vpon her : it shall to be needfull for me to answere them so particularly , as I haue done the rest before cited , sauing only to certaine erroneous assertions , and iniurions asseuerations added by M. Attorney himself in his enumeration and declaration therof , which we shall performe in the next ensuing Chapter , and conclusion of this whole worke . CERTAINE EXPOSTVLATIONS VVITH M. ATTORNEY ABOVT EVIL PROCEEDING , And iniuryes offered to sundry sortes of men in this his Booke of Reportes , especially tovvards the end therof : Togeather with the Conclusion of the whole worke . CHAP. XVI . ALbeit in the beginning and first entrance of this my answere , I promised ( and so I presume hath been perfourmed ) to hold a milde , and respectiue course of temperate writing throughout the same ; yet drawing now towards an end , and finding M. Attorney to imitate the motion of naturall bodies , who the neerer they come to their Center , the more vehemently they mooue , that is to saie , to bee so much the more bitter , eager , and iniurious to Catholicks , as he draweth neerer to the vpshot of his Worke , and designed Center of their dammage , hurte , and preiudice ; I am forced in this place , somewhat also to sharpen my pen , for repelling so manie , manifest , & vndeserued iniuries ; which craftely he goeth about in his last cōclusion to couch vpon them : but yet retaining still our former measure of moderation & friendly dealing , so far as the nature & circumstance of the busines may beare & permit ; intituling this Chapter , rather of Expostulations , then accusations on our behalfe , which for that they concerne diuers sortes of men , wee shall handle distinctly , vnder the seuerall ensuing Paragraphes . THE FIRST EXPOSTVLATION , In the behalfe of Recusant Catholicks of England greiuously iniured by the Attorney . §. I. 2. To the end you may better iudge of the equity of this our first expostulation , I thinke it best to set downe the iniquitie of the Attorneys false charge in his owne words , which are these , in the 34. and 35. leaues of this his 5. parte of Reportes , wholy directed to their hurte , and preiudice . From the first vntill the eleuenth yeare ( saith he ) of the late Queen Elizabeths raigne , no person of what persuasion of Christian religion soeuer , at anie time refused to come to the publike diuine seruice celebrated in the Church of England , being euidently grounded vpon the sacred and infallible VVord of almightie God , and established by publicke authoritie within this Realme . But after the Bul of Pius Quintus was published against her Maiesty in the said 11. yeare of her raigne , &c. all they that depended on the Pope , obaied the Bull , disobaied their gratious and natural Soueraigne , and vpon this occasion refused to come to the Church , &c. 3. Heer you see two things boldly affirmed : First that in 11. yeares after Queen Elizabeths comming to her Crowne , no person of what persuasion soeuer in Christian religion , did at anie time refuse to goe to Church , vntill the Bul of Pius Quintus came forth against her . The secōd , that vpon this occasion , Catholicks not holding the Queen for their lawfull Princesse ( for so afterward he often expoundeth himself ) refused to come to Church . Both which points , if wee can shew to bee most manifestly false , and the second also calumnious , what shall wee saie of M. Attorney in this behalfe , that presumeth so confidentlie to put such open vntruths in print ? 4. First then , for the former point , not onlie many Catholicks in the first eleuen yeares by him prescribed , did refuse publikely to come to the Protestants Church , but many Puritans also , from the verie first entrance of Queen Elizabeth to her Crowne , and so is it testified by publike authoritie of diuers books , set forth by order and approbation of the Bishops of England themselues these years past against the said Puritans , recounting the beginning , ofspring , and progresse of that Sect , and faction , one of them wri●●ng thus : Vpon the returne of Goodman , VVhittingham , & Gylby , with ●he rest of their associates from Geneua to England , although it greiued them at the heart , that they might not beare as great a ●way heer in their seuerall Consistories , as Caluyn did it Geneua , &c. yet medled not they much in shew with matters of this discipline , but rather busied themselues about the apparrell of ministers , ceremonies prescribed , and in picking of quarrells against the Communion booke , &c. Thus writeth hee of the first Gene●ian English preachers , that returned from thence to England after the Queens raigne : and that for these quarrels against the Common , and Communion-booke , they refused to come to the Protestants Church in those daies , as much as Catholikes , it is euident . But yet you shall heare it affirmed plainly and distinctly out of the same Author quite opposite to M. Attorneys asseveration , though hee bee of his religion , if yet he haue made his choise . 5. For the first ten or eleuen yeares of her Maiestyes raigne ( saith hee ) through the peeuish frowardnes , the outcries , & exclamations of those that came home from Geneua , against the garments prescribed to ministers , and other such like matters , no man of anie experience is ignorant what great contentio● and strife was raised , in so much as their Sectaries deuided themselues from their ordinarie cōgregations , & meeting togeather in priuate howses , in woods and fields , had , and kept there , their disorderly and vnlawfull Conuenticles : which assemblees ( notwithstanding the absurdnes of them in a Church reformed ) M. Cart-wright within a while after tooke vpon him in a sorte to defend , &c. So hee . And thus much for Puritanes , whome if M. Attorney will graunt to bee of anie perswasion what soeuer in Christian religion : he then must needs graunt also , that hee was much o●ershott in this his first so generall a Proposition , affirming , that none of what persuasion soeuer , did at anie time refuse within that compasse to goe to Church . But lett vs see , how wee can ouerthrow the same in like manner , concerning Catholickes , of whom principally hee meant it . 6. Hee that shall but cast backe the eye of his memorie , vpon the beginning of Queen Elizabeths raigne , and shall consider how many Archbishops , Bishops , Deans , Archdeacons , Heads of Colledges , Chanons , Priests , Schollers , Religious persons of diuers sortes , and sexes , Gentle-men , Gentle-weomen , and others , did refufe openly to conforme themselues to that new change of Religion then made , and published by authority of the said Queen , at the beginning of her raigne ; will maruaile how , and in what sense , and whether in iest or earnest , sleeping or waking , M. Attorney set downe in writing so generall a negatiue assertion . For that he shall see so many conuictions therof , as there be particular witnesses of credit against him in that behalfe . And truly , it seemeth , that either he was an infant , or vnborne at that time , and hath vnderstood little of those affaires since , or els forgot himself much now , in affirming so resolutely a proposition refutable by so infinite testimonyes . 7. For if he looke but vpon Doctor Sanders Monarchy in latin in his 7. booke , where he handleth the matters that fell out vpon the first change of religion in Queen Elizabeths dayes , he shall find 14. Bishops at least of England only , besides ten more of Ireland and Scotland , togeather with Doctor Fecknam Abbot of VVestminster , Father Maurice Chasey , and VVilson Priors of the Carthusians , 13. Deans of Cathedrall churches , 14. Archdeacons , 15. heads of Colledges , almost 50. Chanons of Cathedrall churches , aboue eightscore other Priests , wherof diuers were Doctors , or Bachlers of diuinity , Ciuill , and Canon-law , depriued from their liuings , and offering themselues , either to voluntary banishment abroad , or to imprisonment and disgrace at home , for maintenance of Catholicke religion , to omit all the rest of the lay sort , both of the Nobility , Gentry , and others , that stood openly to the defence of the same Religion : All which did refuse to goe to the Protestant-seruice , euen in those first dayes ; which is testimony inough , to conuince the open , and notorious falsity of M. Attorneys assertion , that no person of what persuasion soeuer in Christian religion , did at any time refuse to goe to Church : though I deny not , but that many other besides these , throughout the Realme , though otherwise Catholickes in heart ( as most then were ) did at that tyme and after , as also now , either vpon feare , or lacke of better instruction , or both , repaire to Protestant-Churches ; the case being then not so fully discussed by learned men , as after it was , whether a man with good conscience may goe to the Church and seruice of a different Religion from his owne , which releiueth little M. Attorneys affirmation . And so this shall suffice for the first point . 8. In the second point , being no lesse notoriously vntrue then the first , he offereth the said Catholickes much more iniury , in affirming , that vpon this occasion of the Bul of Pius quintus against Q. Elizabeth they first refused to goe to the Church , as not holding her for true and lawfull Queene : insinuating therby another consequence also , much more false and malicious then this , to wit , that the same may be said and vnderstood of Recusant Catholickes at this day , in respect of his Maiesty that now is . But the vntruth of this assertion is most manifest , both by that we haue shewed before , that great multitudes of Catholickes refused euen from the beginning to goe to Protestant-Churches , though then the matter was not much vrged against them ; as also by this other reason , for that their holding the Queene , for true , or vnlawfull , was , and is impertinent to the matter of going to Church : Nay , their holding her for not Queen ( if any so did ) did rather disoblige , then oblige them to this recusancy . 9. The reason heerof is , for that one principall cause binding them in conscience not to goe to the seruice of a different , or opposite religion to their owne , was the precept and commaundement giuen by the said Queene , that all should repaire to the said seruice , to shew their conformity &c. For that the obeying of this precept in matters of religiō ( they offering themselues otherwise to goe to any Church for temporall matters ) was a kind of publike denying their owne faith : As for example ; if in Persia at this day , or other places of differēt Religion , Christians liuing there should of their owne curiosity goe sometimes to the Churches or Moscies of that Coūtrey , to heare & see only what is there done , though not to pray or worship ; or ( which is lesse ) should carry or weare their Turbant or Mahometan habit , it were not so great a matter of offence ; but if the King , or Emperour should commaund the same to be done in attestation of their conformity of religion , now this precept doth make it much more vnlawful , though yet if he were not true King indeed , nor true magistrate that should make such a precept , but some priuate man of his owne authority ; euery man seeth , that it would rather diminish , then encrease the obligation of recusancy , And so M. Attorney , when he affirmeth that Catholickes first began their recusancy of going to Church , vpon this persuasion that Queen Elizabeth was not lawfull Queene , he alleadgeth circstumāce that might rather , in some sort , facilitate their going , then encrease their obligation to the same recusancy . For that her precept and commaundement binding them not at all , as not Queene , they were freed thereby of that obligation , as before hath byn said , springing of this head of Royall commaundement . 10. This then is the first great iniury , which M. Attorney offereth vnto Recusant Catholickes , interpreting their recusancy to be of malice and treasonable hearts , rather then of band of conscience , which iniury he often iterateth in the current of his discourse , saying after many other accusations heaped togeather , in this sorte : In all this tyme , no law was either made , or attempted against them for their recusancy , though it were grounded vpon so disloyall a cause , as hath byn said . And againe a little after talking of the penall laws , made against them for the same recusancy , he saith : That it was a milde , aud mercifull law , considering their former conformity , and the cause of their reuolt . But I hauing shewed now , that there was no such generall conformity before , and consequently no reuolt , and much lesse any such cause of reuolt , as he faineth to himself ; the vntruth of these charges , and the wrong done therby to innocent men , is made euident and manifest . 11. Neither doth M. Attorneys exorbitant humour containe it self heer , but being once entred into the field of insolent inuectiues and exaggerations against the said recusant Catholickes , hee vaunteth , and triumpheth , as though he had them vnder him at the barre readie to bee condemned , where no man must speake in their behalfe , but himself onlie against them without replie , or contradiction . And therfore after a longe enumeration of matters both impertinent , and little important to the cause in hand , he writeth thus : And there vpon Campian , Sherwyn , and manie other Romish Priests being apprehended and confessing that they came into England to make a partie for the Catholicke cause , when need should require , were in the 21. yeare of the said late Queens raigne , by the auncient Common-laws of England , indicted , arraygned , tried , adiudged , and executed for high treason , &c. And againe not longe after he maketh this conclusion : By this , and by all the Records of indictments , it appeareth that these Iesuites and Priests are not condemned , and executed for their Priest-hood and profession , but for their treasonable , and damnable persuasions and practices , against the Crownes and dignities of Monarches , and absolute Princes . &c. Thus hee . 12. But heer I would aske , may not a man of his calling bee ashamed , to put in print so manifest vntruths , euen then , when there are so manie hundreds yet aliue , that were at the said arraignments , trials , condemnations , & deaths of the said Blessed men , Campian , Sherwyn , & the rest , who not only protested on their soules , and euerlasting saluation at their last houre , to bee guyltlesse in all accusations laid against them , except only their Orders of Priest-hood , and profession of faith , but vpon racks also stood therevnto , and defended the same so cleerly at the barre , with manie reasons , proofes , and demonstrations , as most of those that stood round about , and heard their Pleas , yea Protestants also by name , did think certainly , when the Iury went forth to consult ( and did offer likewise to lay wagers theron ) that at least Father Campian , and his companie , the first day should haue been quitted . 13. And as for the auncient common laws of England , wherby M. Attorney saith they were condemned , wee haue shewed now often before , that this is but a word of Course with him , & that there bee no such Commō-laws extant , not euer were , or could bee vnder Catholicke Princes against Priests , before the breach of King Henry the 8. and that this is but an Idaea Platonica of the Attorneys inuention , to couer and colour matters withall : whose soule ( truly ) I doe loue so dearly , as I would bee very sory hee should entangle the same with the bloud of those godly men , that suffered before he came to age , to vndergoe that daungerous burthen of pleading against them . Hee maie leaue that charge to his Auncients , especially to him , that had his office at that time , who being yet liuing ( as I suppose ) hath both that , and many other such heauy reckonings to answere for , at the time appointed by the common Iudge of all , whome I beseech most humbly to facilitate that account vnto him , and others interessed therin ; as this also of calumniating Recusant-Catholickes to M. Attorney , they being the only people of that profession , that most ought to be pittied , and charitably delt withall ; for that they suffer only for not dissembling in their consciences : which if they would doe , as the sinne were damnable to themselues , so were it nothing profitable or auailable to the State , or Prince , to haue externall conformity , without inward consent , iudgement , will , or loue . And so much of the ground of this first expostulation , pretermitting many other things , which might be complained of , in this boysterous streame , and torrent of M. Attorneys accusations against them . 14. And yet one thing more I may not pretermit , which is , to admonish his conscience , if it haue aures audiendi , hearing eares ( which by our Sauiours speach appeareth that diuers cōsciences haue not ) to looke to one speciall obligation aboue the rest ; which is , that hauing ended , and put in print this his Booke , & presented the same in person to his Maiesty , & shewed the principall drift , and partes therof , and therby made some stronge impressions against the said Recusant-Catholickes , as well appeared by his said Maiesties speaches , and discourse that day at dinner , when the said booke was brought forth ; his obligation ( I say ) is , ( and this both in conscience and honour ) that finding himself now mistaken , ouershot , or deceiued in some of his said principall Reportes , and principally in this about Recusant-Catholicks , he is boūd to present also this Answere to his said Maiesty , for manifestation of the truth , and releiuing the said Catholickes of the vniust accusations laid against them , as he did present his owne booke of the said charge . And in this point I will remit me to the iudgement , and censure of the best , & most learned Deuines of all Christendome at this day , either Protestants or Catholickes , whether restitution of fame , iustice , or innocency violated by him , be not in this case necessarily to be made : Quia non dimittitur peccatum , nisi restituatur ablatum . 15. As for example , if M. Attorney in presenting his booke to his Maiestie , & laying open the same , did say , Lo Syr , heer is all this ranke of English laws , to proue that the Kings of this land , did , and might from tyme to tyme , take vpon them Supreme spirituall iurisdiction , no lesse then Queen Elizabeth did by peculiar Act of Parlament , in the first yeare of her raigne : yf he vsed this or the like speach ( as I haue byn informed that he did ) and that now it be proued , that no one of those laws nor al put togeather , doe proue that Conclusion : and if he affirmed moreouer , that by the said auncient English-laws , whosoeuer did not ascribe Supreme spirituall authority to Queen Elizabeth , did deny the perfection of temporall Monarchy in her , and consequently were guilty of treason , or Laesae Maiestatis , which no auncient English-law euer spake , or meant , but all the contrary . 16. If in like manner he told his Maiestie ( as he did ) and made him beleiue that it was true , that no person , of what persuasion soeuer in religion , did refuse at any tyme , for the first eleuen yeares of the Queens raigne , to goe to the Church , and that , then their motiue was , for that they held her not for Queen : If these suggestions ( I say ) & assertions were then made , and lest imprinted in the royall mind and memory of his maiestie , & now are proued to be far otherwise , I am cōtent , as I said , to remit my self to any learned Deuine whatsoeuer , that knoweth what cases of Conscience doe meane , to determine what M. Attorneys obligation of restitution is in this behalfe . 17. Neither may he solace himself ( as I thinke he will not ) in this point , thinking that these are but veniall sinnes for Purgatory , and to be purged in the transitory fire , if he omit these restitutions : for that S. Augustine in many places expresly excepteth and excludeth the same , and saith that sinnes of this quality ( committed against charity ) are for hell-fire , and not for the transitory purging fire , if they be not amended and satisfied for in this life : and to that sense interpreteth he the place of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. If any man buyld vpon the foundation , which is Christ , not gold and siluer , but wood , straw , and chaffe , his works shall burne , &c. And thus much of this first expostulation . THE SECOND EXPOSTVLATION In the behalfe of all English Catholickes in generall . §. II. 18. As the former expostulation was in the name of Recusant-Catholickes especially , for that the charge most concerned them in particular ; so now am I to adioyne some few lines more in behoofe of all Catholickes in generall , that prosesse , or defend the said religion by word , or pen , either at home , or abroade , whome M. Attorney accuseth in his Preface not only of Error , and of her inseparable twynn , Ignorance : ( to vse his phrase ) but of intollerable , and miserable malice also , if it were true , as it is not , to wit , that they impugne the knowne truth against their owne consciences , and this either vpon discontentment for not attaining their ambitious and vniust desires , or for deserued punishments and disgraces , iustly laid vpon them by the State for their vices and wickednes . To which vniust & vncharitable charge , though I haue answered somewhat before in the Preface , and first Chapter of this booke ; yet doe I remember to haue made promisse also in that place to say somewhat more in this , for giuing satisfaction in that behalfe to all charitable & indifferent people , especially in this point , that our standing out against the current of the present time ( to vse M. Attorneys phrase ) is not either of so gr●sse ignorance and lacke of instruction , as hee would haue men to beleiue by his often repetition therof ( and so I presume will in parte appeare by this our answere to his Booke ) or of ambitious desires frustrated , which Catholicke English men of all other sortes of people , can best bee content , and haue best learned by theyr sufferings in these our daies to moderate , & laie aside , so that i● other points their consciences were not racked , galled , and molested : and finally much lesse of punishments , and disgraces receiued from the Sate for their vices , and wickednes : in which Kind it may bee auerred ( I weene ) by good records , that fewer haue been , and are punished for those causes , then of anie other sorte of men , or religion whatsoeuer . 19. Wherefore laying aside all passion , and animositie of part-taking and sincerely to ioyne franke issue with M. Attorney in this point ; wee say and affirme , out of the testimonie of a good conscience in the sight of him that seeth all hearts and cogitations , that his accusations and charges are false in this behalfe , and that our only staie and stopp from not running with him , and others , in this their prosperous Current of the present time , is the barre of conscience only , which if wee could remoue , or hee for vs , who would not bee glad to take parte of so faire and pleasing fortunes , as hee and others enioy by that Current . And wee might also , euery man in his degree and ranke , according to the merit , qualitie , talent , and industrie of ech one of vs , enioy our partes therof , yf this obstacle of conscience were not : or if the onlie feare , and dread of allmightie God , and his iudgment , did not terrifie vs from breaking through the same by violence of will , against the testimonie of our said consciences and iudgment . 20. The same God also doth know , how great a greife it hath been , and is vnto vs in respect of the world , that wee haue not been able to conforme our selues in these externall things , concerning the profession of our religion , vnto the iudgment , tast , and will of our temporall Prince and State , being withholden and terrified from it , by those two knowne threats of our Sauiour , and his Apostle ; the one telling vs , that if wee denie , wee shall bee denied ; the other , that our consciences must bee the sole wittnesses to condemne , or deliuer vs at the last daie , which consciences wee finding to repine and resist , are forced to hearken vnto them now , to the end they may stand for vs and not against vs at that day . 21. And if the iudgment of auncient Christian writers , and Fathers , and namelie Eusebius in the life of our Constantine the Great , that liued with him , was good in commending so highly his Father Cōstātius , for that being yet a Pagan , he more esteemed those Christians throughout his gouernment , that professed freely their religion , and refused to doe against the same at his commaundement , then hee did the other that dissembled , & obaied , and thereupon he reiected the one , and fauoured the other , as more sincere people , and more to bee trusted by him , that were so trustie , and faithfull to their God , and his religion : yf this ( I saie ) were a good censure and iudgment , I doe not see , how this other of M. Attorney can stand vpon anie ground of reason , or Christian charitie , that qualifieth so greiuously , or rather calumniateth so egregiously the religious standing of Catholicke people , in the moderate defence , and excuse of their said consciences . 22. But heere perhaps hee may demaund , or some body for him , what great reasons wee haue for this obstacle of our iudgment , for not conforming it to his , and others in this behalfe . Wherunto , though sufficientlie hath been alleadged before in the Answere to his Preface ; yet now may some two or three points , or considerations bee further added in confirmation therof , among almost infinite that might bee produced . And the first may bee that which hitherto wee haue treated in this book with M. Attorney , concerning the continuance of that religion for which wee stand , throughout the whole race , and course of our Christian English-Princes , State , and Realme , from the beginning of our first conuersion , vnto our time . All which Kings and Queens , Counsellors , Nobilitie , Archbishops , Bishops , Doctors , Vniuersities , Lawyers , and Sages of all sortes , were for so manie ages by one , and the self-same religion , profession , and beleife , directed and saued , if anie were saued : that is to say , by the selfsame means , doctrine and Sacraments of our auncient Catholicke English Church continuing vntill K. Henry 8. tyme which Church professed the very same faith and beliefe in like maner , as in another special * booke hath been declared , wherby all other Christian nations had been directed and saued , for those other ages , which went before our English conuersion after Christs assension . 23. New then this being so , I would aske anie reasonable indifferent English-man , whether wee haue iust cause to stand in , and for this religion or not , and whether if himself were now readie to die ( for that is the time , when men doe iudge with lesse passion ) and had laid before his eyes the euerlasting ioyes of heauen on the one side , and the eternall paines of hell on the other , to bee lost , or gayned , by his election ; whether ( I saie ) hee would aduenture rather to goe in companie and ioyne himself with this large , and venerable bodie of old English Catholickes , among whome there are recorded by histories to haue been so manie admirable men , both for learning , , wisdome and sanctitye of life ; or leauing these to take parte , and receiue his portion with such later people of the same nation , as haue deuided themselues from the other . And when M. Attorney in good probabilitie of reason , shall substantiallie answere mee this demaund , it may doubtlesse bee a great motiue vnto mee , and others to draw vs to the current of this present time ; but in the meane space wee must stand fast , least wee fall into the torrent of brimstone , if wee goe against our consciences , by which wee must bee iudged , and euery man damned , or saued thereby , as out of the Apostles testimonie before hath been declared . 24. And thus much for standing in our old religion . Now for passing to a new , there is another obstacle also , that greatlie withholdeth vs , and this is , that when wee shall haue left this old religion , so begun , so established , so confirmed , so promised by God to endure to the worlds end , so generallie receiued , so vniuersalli-continued , as hath been declared , wee cannot tell to what othe● sorte , sect , or parte of religion to passe with anie probable securitie , or certeynty at all , why wee should rather adhere to one sect then to another . For when once wee lea●● the said Catholicke religion , so groūded , as you haue seen , there is no one substantiall reason à parte rei , that can bee assigned by anie man liuing , neuer so learned , why hee should more , or rather follow one parte , profession , sect , or new opinion then another . As for example , if to a man that vpon anie offence , disgust , scandall , error , anger , interest , leuity , or the like , ( for these are the ordinary motiues of changes ) breaketh from the auncient Catholicke Romain religion ; there should represent themselues vnto him fiue or six of the principall newest sects , and sortes , that professe different religions in our time ( all vnder the name of the Ghospell ) as namelie of Lutheranes , either ridged or soft , of Anabaptists , Trinitarians , new Arrians , Zwinglians , Cal●●nists of both sortes , to witt Puritans and other : ( all which haue their different positions , professions , articles , faiths , Churches , conuenticles , in these our daies ) and if he should demaund of fiue or six distinct Doctors of these new-ghospellers , what substantiall reason , or infallible groūd they can alleadge wherewith to persuade him , that he ought to take their particular partes , or bee of their seueral sects , the one aboue the other ; or why themselues , and ech one of them , is rather of the one sect , then of the other , seeing all professe ghospell , and scriptures : In this case ( I say ) they can yeeld him no other reason but this , that ech man assureth himself , that hee , and his parte doe alleadge , and vnderstand the scriptures better then the rest , which depending onlie ( as you see ) vpon the priuate iudgment , and persuasion of ech one in particular ( for other proofes hee cā bring none , except the stand vpon assurance of his particular spirit , which euerie one of the other sects will doe in like manner ) it bringeth no assurance at all , being onlie founded vpon ech mans opinion , choice , and election , which properlie is heresie : for that hereticks ( as auncient Fathers doe define ) are nothing els but choosers , who leauing the vniuersall rule of faith deliuered vnto them by tradition of the common Church , do chuse vnto themselues seuerall paths , and opinions to follow . 25. Wheras then , no ground at all can bee yeelded by anie reason , witt , or learning of man , why wee should bee rather of one new profession then another , after wee haue left the old receiued throughout Christendome , and that in the old , wee stand not ech-man vpon his particular iudgment to beleiue this or that , but vpon the generall testimonie , tradition , voice , vse , and authoritie of the vniuersall Christian Church called Catholicke , ( as * S. Augustine and others say ) not onlie by her freinds and followers , but also by her enemies : this being so ( I saie ) wee haue great cause to looke before wee leape , as the prouerb is , and to consider well where wee shall land , or how we shall come to shore , before wee leaue the shipp wherin wee are , or doe aduenture into M. Attorneys new Current , or anie other , that hath no staie , but maie carry vs further with the streame , then wee can staie our selues afterward , when wee would . And thus much of this consideration . 26. A third is ( which also shall bee the last in this place ) that terrifieth vs no lesse , then anie of the former two , and this is the name and dreadfull voice of heresie , sect , or schisme , so common now in these our daies , & so ordinarie in everie mans mouth ; as ech one of different opiniōs , esteemeth the other for Hereticke , Sectarie , or Schismatike ; which notwithstanding , if wee consider the course , and sacred sense of holie scripture , especiallie for the new testament , as also the iudgment , feeling and meaning of all auncient Fathers , and of the whole primitiue Christian Church in their daies ; wee shall find to bee the most greiuous accusation , most odious , daungerous , and damnable imputation to be accoumpted an hereticke or sectary , that can possibly be imagined or laid vpon any Christian in this life ; yea that all other crimes laid togeather , which by mans malice , or diabolicall induction can bee committed , are not equall to this onlie crime of heresie : for so doe all learned Catholicke Deuines hold and determine in their generall positions of this matter , as may bee seen in one for all , in the Summe of S. Thomas , where setting downe first that infidelitie against God ( which is the highest crime of all other ) hath three kinds , or members vnder it , Paganisme , Iudaisme , and Heresie , the said Doctor making the question , which of these three is the greatest synne , determineth vpon verie substantiall grounds and reasons , that albeit in some respects , to wit , in regard of the greater multitude of Christian articles which Pagans and Iewes doe denie more them hereticks doe : yet in malice , which maketh the principall point of sinne , and draweth on more grieuous damnation , heresie is a greater infidelitie , then is , either Paganisme , or Iudaisme , and consequenly more damnable ; which I leaue heere to proue , and confirme out of the conformitie of holie scriptures , as that of S. Paul to Titus : that an hereticall man is subuerted & damned by his owne iudgment , and other such places . It is sufficient for setling our dread and feare in this behalfe , that the whole consent of Schoole-Doctors , vpon this alleadged article of S. Thomas . , doe agree , that it is more daungerous and damnable to fall into heresie , then to bee a Iew , or Pagan . 27. With which seueritie of Censure , doe concurre also fullie the auncient Fathers of the Primitiue Christian Church , whose sentences were o●erlonge to cite in this place , but you may see a shorte view thereof gathered togeather vpon another occasion , in a certaine booke lately set forth , where the consenting woords of the most principall said auncient Doctors are laid togeather , affirming that who soeuer by schisme or heresie is cut of frō the faith & cōmmuniō of the generall knowne Catholicke Church , is most certainly to bee damned , and cannot bee saued , though hee should otherwise liue neuer so well , praie neuer so much , giue neuer so great almes , haue neuer so god intētiō other wise ; yea though hee should offer his life , shed his bloud & suffer neuer so manie torments for Christ , his name , loue , and religion . 28. This then being so and adioyning yet further to this consideration , another generall position of our said learned Deuines which is , as the foresaid renowned Doctor S. Thomas setteth it downe , that whosoeuer in anie one least article of Catholicke religiō , doth run into heresie , or beleiueth not the said article , as hee should doe , but obstinately rather impugneth the same , he leeseth his whole faith not , onlie in that point which hee discrediteth , but in all other points also , which hee beleiued before , and persuadeth himself to beleiue still : this ( I saie ) being so , which the said learned Schole-Doctor proueth by euident arguments , & demonstratiue groundes to bee true , M. Attorney may imagine , what stay and repugnance wee may haue out of the feare of our consciences in this behalfe , easilie to make new choice , or changes of religion in these daies . For as if a learned , & experiēced Phisition should come , & shew out of aunciēt reading , that there were a Kind of most deadly , & dreadfull sorte of plague , or Epidemia to bee feared , and fled aboue all the rest when it cometh , for that no hope of life , or escape can be giuen from it ; & that withall hee should affirme , that now the said plague , begā to be cōmon in such and such places , yea so cōmon , as many men did contemne it and make it but a iest , though all perished with it that fel into it ; as in this case ( I saie ) wise-mē would looke about them , hearing that so pestilent & perilous infectiō were on foote in their daies : so much more in this other infection of the soule , leading most certainly to euerlasting death & dānation ( as al the most learned spirituall Phisitions of Christs holy Church haue euer taught vs ) haue we reason to bee carefull , timerous & vigilant what we doe , & what change we make , whither we goe , & frō whence we departe , the saying of S : Athanasius being so dreadfull , in his Creed , that whosoeuer doth not beleiue , and hold the Catholicke faith wholie and entirely , absque dubio in aeternum peribit , shal without all doubt perish euerlastinglie . 29. And S. Augustine after him , hauing set downe vnto his freind Quod-vult-Deus a catalogue of the most cheife and knowne heresies , and erroneous opinions , noted against hereticks from the Apostles time to his daies ( wherof diuers are expressly raised againe by new gospellers in these our times , as there you may see , in that hee writeth of Aerius , Aetius , Iouinian , Vigilantius , and others ) hee commeth lastly to affirme and conclude in the end of that booke , that as it is damnable to hold anie one of those heresies there by him set downe ; so was it not sufficient to saluation to bee free only from those , for that there might bee other opinions discrepant also from the Catholicke beleife , lurking in corners which hee had not heard of : and moreouer there might other new spring vp from time to time : Q●●rum aliquā ( saith hee ) quisquis tenuerit , Christianus Catholicus esse non potest : Of which ; whosoeuer shall hold any one ( and let vs marke anie one ) he cannot be a Christian Catholicke , and consequentlie cannot be saued in S. Augustines iudgment . 30. And for so much as now in all this controuersie between M. Attorney and vs , wee haue shewed his opinions and assertions to bee so different from those of all our English Christian Commonwealth , from the beginning vnto our times , which wee on the other side haue shewed to be trulie Catholicke , and common to the whole Christian world besides ; all men of indifferencie wil cōsider , what reasō we haue in making such stay as we doe , from passing lightlie to his Current , & how little reason he hath , or had to charge vs so deeplie and iniuriouslie , that our stay was vpon so euill and odious causes , as before he charged vs. And thus much of this second expostulation . THE THIRD EXPOSTVLATION , In the name of all moderate and peace-louing subiects whatsoeuer . §. III. 31. My third complaint or expostulation with M. Attorney is yet more generall , as concerning not onlie all sortes of Catholickes whatsoeuer , but other men in like manner of any profession in Christian religion that are wise , moderate , peaceable , and desirous of the tranquillitie of the Prince and State where they liue , who out of their prudence , easilie doe foresee , cannot but incurre danger of perturbation by immoderate exasperation of minds , when particular men ( otherwise not loued but rather hated , or enuyed for their extraordinarie fortunes , riches , and aduauncements ) doe passe to such insolencie of speach and beuauiour , as they seeke to drawe whole multitudes into disgrace and daunger , by vniust oppresion . We know , and may remember out of our histories , what general exulceratiō of hartes haue risen in former years against Huberts de Burgo , Gauestons , Spēcers , Mortimers , Veares , Scroops , Catesbies , Ratcliffes , Louels , Empsons , Dudleys , and other vpon like occasions , for that they were thought , or suspected to incite the Prince vnder whome they liued , to the vndeserued hurts and ruines of many others . 32. And surelie what M. Attorney hath perfourmed , or attempted in this behalfe , partlie by his iniurious speaches at the barrs where he pleadeth , partlie by this his Booke , and other means , against so great a multitude of his Maiesties Subiects , as the Catholicke partie and their well-willers are , both at home and abroad ; is not heard to consider : for so much , as he maketh their verie beleife , or act of vnderstanding , which lyeth not in their handes to alter at their pleasure , to bee disloialtie and treason ( as before hath byn shewed ) and consequentlie that against their wills they must be traitors . Wherof ensueth againe another consequence worse then this , which is , that when men see themselues vrged , egged , and pressed in matters that lie not in their owne hands to remedie , & this also as they persuade themselues , not so much by the inclination of the Prince , as by the importunitie & insolencie of others , that being wanton with wealth , delight themselues in other mens vexations ; this perswasion ( I say ) when once it entereth into the head of multitudes in any common-wealth , driueth men to extreme impatience , and vtter despaire of redresse ; the only remedy wherof , is none other , but to preuent the occasion it selfe . 33. And ( truly ) it may be probably hervpon inferred ( and so it is also thought of diuers at home and abroad ) that this Booke of Reportes of M. Attorneys comming forth at the time when it did , and beating to the end , which before we haue seen , presented also particularlie to his Maiesty , as hath byn said , & much praised by the same , accompanied also at that time with no small multitude of other afflictions laid vpon the Catholicke people , throughout all partes of our Realme , and many more threatned , and expected dailie by them : this ( I say ) togeather with the circumstance of the authorsperson , eyed greatly for his extraordinarie wealth and ouerflowing fortunes , might bee some cause of furthering of this late most dangerous and lamentable attempt in our owne Countrey , so greatly noysed , and talked of at his day , throughout the Christian world . 34. Wherfore the summe of this my expostulation with M. Attorney is , that hee being otherwise a wise , and learned man ( as in his profession I take him to bee , by his preferments ) and not insolent , or cruell by nature ( as willinglie I incline to beleiue ) would at such a time , as he saw so great a multitude of Catholike people greiuously afflicted for their religion , come forth with so odious and new drift against them , as this is , adding affliction to the afflicted , and endeauoring to proue against them that which hee neither hath done , nor euer will bee able ; to witt , that the verie profession of their religion implyeth disloyaltie to their temporall King and Prince . Which thinge , albeit some other lighter companions , leuioris armaturae milites , ministers ( to witt ) of diuers sortes , haue not sticked iniuriously to cast out : yet for a man of M. Attorneys place and ranke , to affirme it so seriously , and to promise also Demonstratiue proofs therof , by the auncient Common-laws of our Realme , was a matter of farre more impression , and must needs worke more daungerous , and greiuous exulceration of minds , which is the ordinarie effect of such insolencie and importunities . 35. Well ( gentle Reader ) I will entertaine thee no longer with these expostulations to M. Attorney , and others , that by his authoritie and example , haue , or may vrge the like odious argument : Wherof some alreadie haue begun to tread his stepps , not onlie by suggesting and vrging that which so hurtefullie was suggested to K. Roboam , against the bearing somewhat with his afflicted people , but also by vrging , & exulcerating other odious points , that driue to desperation , as before hath been said : and consequently I must needs conclude with the saying of the Prophet , against such makers of diuisiō : Vae ij● qui dispergunt : woe be to them that doe disperse and deuide , to witt , the sheep from their shepheard , the children from their father , the people from their Prince , the subiects from their King , and one sorte of subiects from the other ; whereas all were to bee held togeather , tollerated , suffered , vnited , entertained , cherished , and comforted as much as may bee , for that in the multitude , loue , vnion and affection of the subiects , standeth the riches , wealth , strength cōforte , honour , and securitie of the Prince , as all men will confesse . 36. And with this will I end all this whole discourse and Answere of myne to M. Attorney , beseeching almightie God , that it may worke that effect with him , and others , for their true light and vnderstanding in the controuersie wee haue in hand , which is necessarie for their , and our eternall good : for I am contented to leaue for my last words of this booke those , wherewith M. Attorney thought best to end also his , which are : That miserable is his case , and worthie of pittie , that hath been persuaded before he was instructed , and now will refuse to bee instructed because 〈◊〉 will not bee persuaded . FINIS . Faultes escaped in the Printing . Pag. 12. lin . 38. for axagg●ration Read exaggeration . Pag. 17. lin . vlt. for circumfetence read circumference . Pag. 20. l●n . 3. for knovv read knowen . Pag. 26. lin . 14. Medi●ation read Mediation . Pag. 36. lin . 9. in some copyes Pater nu●c read Pater tuus . Pag. 40. lin . 2. for sunne read summe . Ibid. lin . 3. for is read as . Pag. 47. lin . 24. Ruland shire read Rutland-shire . Pag. 52. lin . 7. for is read it . Pag. 54. lin . 5. Canoinst read Canonist . Pag. 65. lin . 13. for Orae read Oro. Pag. 66. lin . 17. for some read sonne . Pag. 73. lin . 13. purpose all adde at all . Pag. 74. lin . 38. vve are professe adde to professe . Pag. 75. lin . 23. for excude read exclude . Pag. 82. lin . 34. for the in Church read in the Church . Pag. 85. lin . 6. for be being read he being . Pag. 86. lin . 39. for preath read preach . Pag. 99. lin . 22. for the Rome read to Rome . Pag. 100. lin . 36. for hea-magistrate read heathen magistrate . Pag. 102. lin . 4. that the vvrote read that he wrote . Pag. 109. lin . 24. for precedessors read predecessors . Pag. 117. lin . 12. for religions read Religious . Pag. 118. lin . 14. for men desires read mens desires . Pag. 122. lin . 33. for quetting read quietting . Pag. 129. lin . 11. for endevving read endowing . Pag. 152. lin . 12. for Tyrus read Cyrus . Pag. 168. lin . 31. ovvne his vvords read his owne words , Pag. 177. lin . 25. for bad read had . Pag. 191. lin . vlt. in some copyes , for hape read haue . Pag. 208. lin . 39. for s●ruiued read suruiued . Pag. 209. lin . 10. for hir read his . Pag. 225. lin . 20. for the read she . Pag. 229. lin . 26. for aginst read against . Pag. 254. lin . 36. hath said adde hath byn said . Pag. 270. lin . 26. for my read any . Pag. 275. lin . 10. for pecular read peculiar . Ibid. lin . 22. for thera●ut read therabout . Pag. 278. lin . 35. for began read begun . In the Margentes . Pag. 17. for controsies read controuersies . Pag. 85. for lavvoy read lawes . Pag. 146. for had read bad . Pag. 383. for Castus read Calixtus . Pag. 180. for 25. read 35. Pag. 132. for hauing read raigning . It may please thee ( gentle Reader ) of thy curtesy to pardon these , and other like faultes ( if any shal be found ) and consider vvith thy selfe the difficultyes we haue in vsing the help of straungers herin . A TABLE OF THE PARTICVLAR MATTERS CONTEYNED IN THIS BOOKE . A. ABbyes & Monasteryes founded in England by Religious Catholicke Princes . Cap. 6. à num . 37. vsque ad num . 49. Abbey of Euesham priuiledged from Rome . cap. 6. num . 42. Abbey of S. Albans founded by K. Offa. cap. 6. num . 43. The priuiledges and exemptions of the same . ibid. Abbey of Glastensbury priuiledged by Pope Iohn the thirtenth . cap. 6. num . 45. Abbey of VVestminster priuiledged at the petition of K. Edward the Confessor . cap 6. num . 47. & 48. Abbot of VValtham punished , & why ? cap. 12 num 29. & 32. Absurdityes of Statute-decrees in Parlament about spirituall power giuen to secular Princes . cap. 3. n. 6.7.18.19.20 . 21. 22. 23. & 24. Absurdity of a womans Supremacy in spirituall matters . cap. 4. num . 27. Absolution of K. Henry the second by the Popes Legates . cap. 9. nu 12 & 13. S. Adelmus Bishop of Sherborne his voyage to Rome . cap. 6. num . 40. His booke of Virginity . ibid. n. 42. Adelnulph King of England his confirmation of Peter-Pence to Rome cap 6. num . 71. Agreement betweene the Pope and K. of England about Prouisions of Ecclesiasticall dignityes in England , cap. 12. num . 12. & 39. S. Ambrose his iudgement of spirituall power . cap. 2. n 25. & 26. His combattes and conflictes with the Emperour and Empresse about Church-affayres . ibid. n. 27.28 . & 29. Ancient-Fathers directions how to find out truth . cap. 1 n. 17. & 18. Their freedome of speach to Emperours . cap. 4. n. 4. 5. & 6. S. Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury his commendations . cap. 8. num . 2. His pall brought from Rome by the Popes Legat. ibid. num . 4. His plaine dealing with K. VVilliam Rufus . ibid. num . 5. His reconciliation with K Henry the first . ibid. num . 11. Appellations to Rome about Controuersies that fell out in England . cap. 6. n. 49. 50. & deinceps . Appeale of K. Henry the second to the Pope , about the controuersie of the death of S. Thomas of Canterbury . cap. 9. n. 11. Appeales from K. Richard the first , to the Pope . cap. 9. num . 23. Appeale of Richard Archbishop of Canterbury to Rome against K. Henry the third , cap. 10. num . 17. Archbishop of Canterbury accused to the Pope by K. Edward the first . cap. 11. num . 16. Archbishop of Canterbury depriued of spirituall Iurisdiction by Q. Elizabeth . cap. 11. num . 30. Archbishop of Yorke put to death by commaundement of King Henry the fourth . cap. 15. num 23. Arguments of K. Henry the 8. against Luther for the Popes Supremacy . cap. 15. num . 5. 6.7 . & deinceps . Assertions of Protestants , and the foundation therof . Prefac . num . 7. S. Athanasius his seuere reprehension of the Emperour Constantius . cap. 4. num . 8. M. Attorney his imagined ignorance . cap. 1. num . 12. His condemnation of controuersy-wryters , ibid. num . 26.27.28 . & 29. His time of study in law . ibid. n. 34. His absurd propositions and arguments refuted . cap. 3. per totum , & deinceps per totum librum His arguments and shiftes returned vpon himselfe . cap. 4. num . 9 & 12. His new deuise to make Ecclesiasticall lawes the Kinges lawes . ibid. num . 13. & 14. M. Attorney challenged . cap. 6. n. 28. Iniuryes offered by him to many in this his booke cap. 16. per totum His false charge of Catholickes . ibid. num . 2. His iniurious and slanderous calumniations . ibid. num 10. His manifest & notorious vntruthes . ibid. num . 11. His Idaea Plaetonica of ancient comon-lawes . ibid. num . 13. His false information of his Maiesty that now is . ibid. num 15. & 16. His promise not performeable . ibid. num . 34. S. Augustines seuere sentence against heretickes and heresies . cap. 16. n. 29. S. Augustine of Canterbury his successors by appointment from Rome . cap. 6. num . 20. Authority spirituall & temporall , & the difference therof . cap. 2. n. 4. & 5. Authority Episcopall greater then Imperiall . cap. 2. num . 25. Authority spirituall giuen vnto Q Elizabeth by Parlament . cap. 3. num . 3. The absurdityes and inconueniences therof ensuing . ibid. num . 4. & 5. Authority of Bishops Courtes , from whence it is deriued . cap. 13. num 17. Authority of English Prelates , when England was Catholike . cap. 14. n. 17. B. Bastardy a let or hinderance to Priesthood . cap. 14. num . 19. S. Benedict of Northumberland his voyage to Rome for priuiledges of his monastery . cap. 6. num . 39. Benefices collated by lay-men . cap. 7. num . 26. & 29. S. Bertulph his monastery priuiledged from Rome cap. 6. num . 39. Bigamy . cap. 11. num . 30. & 31. A statute therof by K. Edward the first ibidem . Doubts therabout raised in England . ibid. num . 31. & 32. Bishops made in Englād by the Popes authority . cap. 6. num . 21. & 22. Bishops lands seased into the Kinges handes , and why ? cap. 11. num . 28. Bishops how they might be punished for not admitting the Kinges iust presentation . cap. 11. num . 29. Bishop of Hereford taken from the barre of secular Court , by Ecclesiasticall authority . cap. 11. num . 46. Bishops and Prelates of England sent to the Councell of Constance in Germany . cap. 13. num . 6. Bishops how they may be called the Kinges spirituall Iudges . cap. 13. n. 8. Bishops Courtes from vvhence they haue their authority . cap. 13. num . 17. Bishops hovv farre they may be commaunded by the King. cap. 13. num 18. Birth-right of lavves . c. ● . n. 18.22 . & 23. Birth-right of Englishmen is Catholicke Religion . cap. 1. num . 26. Bodyes to the King , and soules to the Priest. cap. 4. num . 5. Booke of K. Henry the 8. against Luther in defence of the seauen Sacraments . cap. 15. num . 3.4 . & 5. Breach of King Iohn vvith the Sea Apostolicke , and occasion therof . cap. 9. num . 57. Breach of K. Henry the 8. with Pope Clement the 7. and how the same began . cap. 15. num . 4.5.6 . & 7. Bulles from Rome not admitted in England , except they came certified from some Prelate at home , and why ? cap. 12. num . 28. & cap. 13. num . 27. C. Calixtus the Pope his meeting vvith Henry the first in Normandy , cap. 8. n. 14. Campian , & his fellow-martyrs protestations at their death , cap. 16. num . 12. Canon-lawes , how they vvere receyued in England . cap. 14. num . 17. Canutus K. of England his confirmation of Peter-pence to Rome . cap. 6. n. 72. Catholicke Religion the birth-right of Englishmen cap. 1. num . 26. Catholickes falsely charged by M. Attorney . cap. 16. num . 2.3 & deinceps . Catholicke-Recusants from the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne . cap. 16. num . 7. Catholickes falsely accused of inconstancy . cap. 16. num . 18. Caudrey the Clerke his case . cap. 3. per totum . Causes of K. Henry the 8. his falling out and breach vvith the Sea Apostolicke . cap 15. num . 1.2 . & 3. Ceadwalla K. of the VVestsaxons his pilgrimage to Rome . cap. 6. num . 83. His baptisme there and death . ibid. Celestine Pope his letters to the Realme of England . in absence of K. Richard the first , cap. 9. num . 33. Charters for Church-priuiledges before the Conquest and after , cap. 5. num . 2. 3. & 4. & deinceps . & cap. 8. num . 23. The beginning of the Great-charter vnder K. Henry the third , cap. 10. num . 6. Church-libertyes confirmed by K. Richard the second . cap. 12. num . 43. S. Chrysostomes iudgement of spirituall power , cap. 2. num . 21.22.23 . & 24. Ciuill warres in England vnder King Henry the third . cap. 10. num . 12. Clergy-men subiect to the Ciuill Magistrate in temporal affaires , cap. 2. num . 33. & 34. But not in spirituall . ibid. num . 35. Clergie-mens persons exempted from secular povver . cap. 2. num . 26. & 37. Clerkes euer exempted from temporall Iudges . cap. 15. num . 20. Collations of benefices by lay-men , cap. 7. num . 26. & 29. Comparison betweene Catholick sand Sectaryes , cap. 1. num . 13. & 14. Commodityes or discommodityes of municipall lavves , cap. 1. num . 20. Comon-lawes birthright , cap. 1. num . 22. & 23. Complaintes against strangers beneficed in England , cap. 10. num . 21.22 . 23. & deinceps . Remedyes sought to the Pope therfore . ibid. num . 23. Controuersy-wryters condemned by M. Attorney , and vvhy ? cap. 1. num . 26.27 . 28. & 29. Controuersy-writers against their conscience , cap. 1. nu . 32. and vvho they be . ibid. num . 35. Constantius the Emperour reprehended by Bishops . cap. 4. num . 6.7 . & 8. Confirmation of Church libertyes in England by diuers Kinges before and after the Conquest . cap. 5. num . 7. & deinceps . & Cap. 8. n. 23. Conquest of VVales by K. Edward the first , cap. 11. num . 9. Conuersion of diuers Kingdomes in England one after the other . cap. 6. num . 15. Condemnation of Protestantes doctrine by K. Henry the eight , cap. 15. n. 15. & 16. Conscience the cause that Catholicks follow not M. Attorneys current , cap. 16. num . 19. & 20. Constantius the Emperour his iudgement touching such as dissembled in Religion . cap. 16. num . 20. Councell of Constance in Germany . cap. 13. num . 6. English Prelates sent thither , ibid. Courtes spirituall and temporall , and their difference . ca 4. nu . 11. & deinceps . Courtes spirituall superiour to temporall . ca. 10. num . 30. Cranmer the first hereticall Archbishop of Canterbury . ca. 15. nu . 32. Burnt at Oxford for his heresies . ibid. Crosses erected by K. Edward the first . ca. 11. num . 6. Crowne of Englād not subiect to any in temporalityes . ca. 12. nu . 48. D. Decrees and Ordinances of Pope Formosus for the Church of England . ca. 6. num . 59. Decree against Bigamy . ca. 11. nu . 31. Decree of Pope Gregory the ninth about proceeding against hereticks , ca. 13. num 14. Decrees of K. Henry the eyght his breach with the Sea Apostolicke , ca. 15. num . 11. & 12. Despaire causeth forgetfulnes of all reason and duty : and vvhy ? ca. 16. n. ●2 . Demonstrations before the Conquest against secular Princes Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction in England , cap. 6. per totum Deposition of Stigand Archbishop of Canterbury , ca. 7. num . 9. Difference of Courtes , and vvhat it proueth , ca. 4. num . 11. Difference of lawes , and law-makers before the Conquest . ca. 6. num . ● . Difference of Courtes shew differēce of origen and authority . ca. 11. nu . 50. Directions of ancient Fathers hovv to find out Truth . ca. 1. nu . 17. & 18. Dispensations of most importance procured alvvayes from Rome , cap. 6. num . ●4 . & 35. Dissention betvveene Protestants and Puritans , and vvhy ? Prefac . n. 18. & 19. Dissimulation in Religiou hovv daungerous , cap. 16. num . 20. Doubts raised in England concerning bygamy , cap. 11. num . 32. E. Ecclesiasticall lavves , made to be the Kinges lavves by M. Attorney . cap. 4. nu . 13. & 14. Ecclesiasticall vveighty matters allvvayes referred to Rome by our English Kinges , cap. 6. num . 19. Edgar K. of England his speach for the reformation of the Clergy , cap. 6. num . 87. & 88. His piety and deuotion tovvards the Sea of Rome , ibid. S. Edmund Archbishop of Canterbury threatneth K. Henry the third if he obayed not , cap. 10. num . 37. K Edward the Confessor his confirmation of Peter-pence to Rome , cap. 6. num . 73. K. Edward the first surnamed Long-shanke , cap. 11. num . 3. His deuotion , ibid. num 4. His vvorkes of piety , ibid. His Conquest of VVales , ibid. num . 9. His mutability in keeping Church-priuiledges . ibid. num . 11. His violent proceeding against the Clergy , ibid. num 12. & 13. His euer obedience to the Sea of Rome in meere spirituall things , ibid. num . 14. & 17. His deuotion tovvards the first Pope in Auinion in France , ibid. num . 16. His accusation of the Archbishop of Canterbury to the Pope , ibid. num . 16. His lawes in preiudice of the Clergy , ibid. num . 21. K. Edward the second his euill successe of marriage in France , cap. 11. n. 41. K. Edward the third his restraints against the Clergy of England , cap. 12. num . 1. & 2. His punishment for the violence vsed towards the Church , cap. 12. nu . 2.3.39 . & 40. Motiues that induced him therto , ibid. num . 3. His great embassage to the Pope , ib. num . 7. His protestation for obedience to the Sea of Rome for himselfe and his , cap. 12. num . 8. His disordinate life , ibid. num . 41. K. Edward the fourth his raigne ouer England , cap. 14. num . 1.2.3 . & deinceps . K. Edward the sixth his raigne , cap. 15. num . 26. His Supremacy of the Church of England declared by the Protector his vncle , ibid. S. Egwyn Bishop of VVorcester his monastery of Euesham , cap. 6. num . 42. His voyage to Rome , ibid. & nu . 79. Elections of Bishops 4. kinds . cap. 7. num . 32. Eminency of spirituall power aboue temporall , cap. 2. num . 19. England made tributary to Rome , cap 6. num . 67. & cap. 9. num . 62.63 . & 64. Entrance into England denyed to the Popes Legates , and vvhy ? cap. 14. n. 13. & 15. Error vvhat it is , and how it extendeth it selfe , cap. 1. per totum . Error how it differeth from Ignorance , cap. 1. num . 8. & 9. Euesham-Abbey in VVorcester-shire builded by S. Egwyn , cap. 6. num . 42. The same priuiledged from Rome , ibidem . Eustachius K. Stephens sonne , his violence vsed against Clergy-men of Yorke , cap. 8. num . 35. Excommunications practised by the Apostles , cap. 2. num . 15. Exemption of Clergy-men from secular power ex iure diuino , cap. 2. num . 37. Item by Imperiall lawes , ibid. n. 38 By particular Kinges and Princes , ib. num . 39. Exemptions graunted by diuers Popes to pious vvorkes in England before the Conquest . cap. 5. num . 10. Expostulations vvith M. Attorney , about iniuryes offered to many , in his booke of Reportes , cap. 16. per totum . Exulteration of M. Attorneys booke of Reportes , cap. 16. num . 33. F. Father Campian , and his fellovv-martyrs iniured by M. Attorney , cap. 16. n. 11. Their protestations at their death , ib. num . 12. Founders of pious vvorkes had authority ordinarily to giue Charters for priuiledges and exemptions therof , cap. 8. num . 23. Foundation of Abbeys and Monasteryes in England before the Conquest , cap. 6. à num . 37. vsque ad 49. Franquises and priuiledges of Churches and monasteryes procured from the Pope , cap. 6. num . 37.38.39 . & deinceps . Freedome of speach in the ancient Fathers to Emperours , cap. 4. num .. 4. 5. & 6. G. Geffrey K. Richard the first his brother made Archbishop of Yorke , cap. 9. num . 35. His deposition from his bishopricke , ibid. num . 45. Againe restored , ibid. num . 46. Glastenbury-Abbey priuiledged from Rome at the petition of K. Edgar , cap. 6. num . 45. God the author of all lavvfull povver , cap. 1. num . 1. & 2. Gods miraculous actions in the old testament ascribed to Christ , cap. 4. num . 30. Gouernment of vvomen in spiritualityes , and absurdity therof , cap. 4. n. 19. 20.21 . & 22. Great-Charter for Church-priuiledges began by K. Henry the third , cap. 10. num . 6. S. Gregoryes commission to S. Augustine of Canterbury , cap. 6. nu . 12. & 13. S. Gregory Nazianzens discourse about the nature of spirituall and temporall Iurisdiction , cap. 2. num 4. Groundes of spirituall authority . Prefac . num . 6. Groundes of Protestants assertions , Prefac . num . 7. Of Puritans ibid. num . 8. Of Catholickes , ibid. num . 9. Groundes in sectes & new-opinions , vvhat they are , or can be ? cap. 16. n. 25. Gualter Archbishop of Roane Gouernour of England , cap. 9. n. ; 4. & 42. His disgust and appeale against King Richard the first . ibid. num . 47. Guide to saluation , Pref. num . 5. H. Head-ship of spirituall matters not possibly in a woman , cap. 4. num . 26. The absurdityes that would follow therof . ibid num . 27. K. Henry the first his raigne ouer England , cap. 8. num 8. His good beginning . ibid. num . 9. His resignation of inuestitures , ibid. num . 14. His conference vvith Pope Calixtus in Normandy . ibid num . 14. His acknowledgment of the Popes supremacy . ibid. num . 21. K. Henry the second his raigne out England . cap. 9. à num . 1. vsque ad n. 22. His temporall greatnesse . ibid. num . 2. His lamentable end . ibid. num . 6. Laws attempted by him against the Church . ibid. num 7. Made legate of the Pope in England ibid num 9. His humility to the Sea Apostolicke , cap. 9. num . 10. His appeale to the Pope , about S. Thomas of Canterbur● death . ibid num . 11. His purgation and absolution by the Popes Legat. ibid. n. 12. & 13. His letter to the Pope in great affliction . ibid. n. 14. ●● The straytes vvherunto he vvas driuen ibid. num . 19. His pennance at the body of S. Thomas of Canterbury . cap. 9. num . 19. K. Henry the third his temporall homage done to the Sea Apostolicke . cap. 10. num . 3. His beginning of the Great Charter for Church priuiledges . ibid. num . 6. His conference vvith K. Lewes of France . ibid. num . 9. His obedience and subiection to the Popes , cap. 10 n 19. His letter to Pope Innocentius . ibid. num 21. His statutes in fauour of the Clergy . ibid. num . 27. His obedience to the Bishopp of London in spirituall matters . ibid. num . 34 & 35 , Also to the Deane of Paules , ibid. num . 38. K. Henry the 4. his raigne . cap. 13. n. 1. 2. 3. & deinceps . His condemnation and execution of the Archbishop of Yorke . c. 15. n. 23. K. Henry the seauenth his raigne ouer England . cap. 14 n. 15. 16. & deinceps . His statute for reformation of the Clergy . ibid. His deuotion and obedience to the Sea of Rome vntill his death . ibid. n. 21. K. Henry the 8. his good beginning . cap. 15. n. 1. & 2. His booke against Luther . ibid. num . 3.4 & 5. His arguments therin for the Popes supremacy . ibid num . 5. 6. & dein . His inuectiue against Luthers inconstancy . ibid. num . 7. His good offices to the Pope continued for many yeares . ibid. n. 9. The beginning of his breach vvith the Pope . ibid. n. 10. & 11. His taking vpon him the Supremacy . ibid num . 13.14 . & 15. His condemnation of Protestants religion . ibid. n. 15. Heretickes their pretence of singularity of knowledge . cap. 1. n. 5. 6. & 7. Heresy , how great and grieuous a synne . cap. 16. n. 26. Hubert Earle of Kent Chiefe Iusticer of England . cap. 10. num . 34. His disgrace vvith the Kinge . ibid. His taking of Sanctuary . ibid. Hunting & hawking disliked in English Bishopps and Prelates . c. 9. n. 45. I. Ignorance vvhat it is . cap. 1. num . 10. Ignorance how it differeth from error . ibid. n. 10. & 11. Ignorance negatiue and priuitiue . ibid. num . 10. & 11. Ignorance voluntary and inuoluntary . ibid. num . 11. & 12. Inas King of the VVestsaxons his letters in fauour of the Pope . cap. 6. n. 69. His Pilgrimage to Rome for deuotion . cap. 6. n. 82. Inconueniences by strangers promoted to Ecclesiasticall dignityes in England . cap. 11. num . 36. Remedyes therof sought from the Pope . ibid. n. 38. Iniuryes offered to diuers sorts of men by M. Attorney his booke . cap. 16. per totum . Insolency of some priuate men , and perills that often arise therby . cap. 16. num . 31. Inuasion of Abbey-landes or goods , forbidden vnder payne of damnation . cap. 5. num . 11. & 12. Inuectiue of K. Henry the 8. against Luthers inconstancy . cap. 15. num . 7. Inuestitures to Benefices desyred by Princes , denyed by Popes . cap. 7. n. 34. The beginning therof by secular Princes . cap. 8. num . 16. Inuestitures resigned by K. Henry the first . cap. 8. num . 14. Inuestitures graunted only by permission of the Sea Apostolicke . cap. 8. num . 17. K. Iohn of England his variable state in gouernment . cap. 9. n. 48. & deinceps . His obedience to the Sea of Rome . ibid. num . 50. & 51. His piety in the beginning of his raigne . ibid num . 53. His humility & liberality . ibid n. 54. His breach with the Church of Rome and occasion therof . cap. 9. n. ●7 . His indignation against Clergy mē . ibid. num . 58,59 . & 60. His offer of subiectiō to the Mores . ibid. num 62. His reconciliation vvith the Sea of Rome . ibid. num 62. & 63. His death . ibidem . n. 66. Iurisdiction spirituall and temporall and the dependance or independance the one of the other . cap. 2. n. 6. & 7. Iurisdiction-spirituall , internall and externall . cap. 2. n. 16. Ins , how farre the vvord extendeth . cap. 1. num . 3. K. Key of knowledg cap. 6. num . 32. Kinges capable of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction by commission . cap. 12. n. 29. King how he is Persona mixta . c. 14. num . 1● . King Edward the Cōfessor his Charters and priuiledges for Church-libertyes . cap. 5. n. 15. & deinceps . Item his subiection to the Pope . ibid. num . 16. 17. & 18. King Edward the first excommunicated by Pope Formosus . cap. 6. n. 57. King Edvvyn of Northumberland demaunded Bishops from Rome . c. 6. nu . 22. Priuiledges graunted vnto him by Pope Honorius . ibidem . King Edgar his reformation of the Clergy of England by authority from Rome . cap. 6. num . 27. King Ceadwalla of the VVestsaxons his going to Rome and death there . cap. 6. num . 40. King Ethelbert of kent his Charter for Church priuiledges . cap. 5. num . 11. His dependance of the Sea of Rome . cap. 6. num . 20. King Inas his lavves in fauour of the Pope . cap 6. num . 69. His Peter-pence paid to Rome . ibid. num . 68. King Kenulphus his Charter for Church priuiledges . cap. 5 num . 3. & 4. His letter and humble petition to Pope Leo. cap. 6. num . 30. & 32. King Offa of Mercia his attēpt against Iurisdiction of the Sea of Canterbury . cap. 6. num . 29. King Offa the younger of Mercia his Confirmation of Peter-pence to Rome . cap. 6. n. 70. King Osway of Northumberland his embassage to Pope Vitalianus for an Archbishop into England . cap. 6. n. 24. King of Spaine his Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction in Sicily . cap. 15. num . 20. Knightes of the Temple suppressed in England . cap. 11. nu . 43. L. Lanfranke chosen Archbishop of Canterbury cap. 7. n. 4. His letter to Pope Alexander the second ibidem . Lawes Ecclesiasticall not made , but receaued by secular Princes . cap. 1. n. 4. Lawes-birthright . cap. 1. num . 18. & 19. Lawes municipall , and their antiquity . cap. 1. n. 19. Their commodityes & discommo●●●●●● . ibid. num . 20. Lawes-canon , and how they vvere first receyued in England . cap. 4. n. 17. Law-Ciuill and vvhat it is ? c. 4. n. 24. Law of Nature . cap. 4. num 25. Law Euangelicall . cap. 4. num . 29. Lawes municipall of England . cap. 4. num . 39. Lawes made before the Conquest by secular princes concerning Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction . cap. 6. n. 3. 4.5.6.7 . & deinceps . Lawes Ecclesiastical not made by Princes but by Prelates in England . c. 6. n. 9. Lawes attempted by K. Henry the second against the Church of England . cap. 9. n. 7. Lawes of K. Edward the first in preiudice of the Clergy of England . cap. 11. num . 21. Law of Premunire , and beginning therof . cap. 12. n. 11. & 12 Lawes Ecclesiasticall subiect to euery mans particular calūniation . c. 15. n. 19. Legates of the Pope forbidden entrance into England , and vvhy ? cap. 14. num 13. & 15. Leopold Duke of Austria his imprisoning of K. Richard the first . cap. 9. num . 39. Lollards heretickes in England . cap. 13. n. 7. Lawes for their apprehension and execution . ibid. num . 7. & 23. Their name and origen . ibidem . Luther impugned by K. Henry the 8. Cap. 15. num . 4. 5. 6. & deinceps . His inconstancy inueighed at by the same King. ibid. num . 7. M. Missions into England by authority of the Pope cap. 6. num . 33. Monasteryes and Abbeys founded in England before the Conquest . cap. 6. à num 37. vsque ad 49. Monasteryes and Churches priuiledges procured from Rome . cap. 6. n. 37. 38. & 39. Monastery of S. Bertulphes & the priuiledges therof . cap. 6. num . 39. Motiues that indured K. Edw. the 3. to proceed so violently against the Church of England , cap. 12. num . 3. Mounsieur Lansackes cōference vvith Queene Elizabeth , cap. 15. num . 41. N. Name of Lollards from whence it is deriued cap. 13. num 23 , & 24. M. Attorneys ridiculous Etimology therof . ibid. num . 22. Nature and conditions of spirituall and temporall iurisdiction expressed by S. Gregory Nazianzen . cap. 2. num . 4. Nicolas Morris Abbot of VValtham punished by K. Edw. the third , & vvhy . cap. 12. num . 29. & 32. Nouelty of Q. Elizabeths supremacy misliked by Puritans and Protestants . cap. 4. num . 41.42.43 . & deinceps . O Oath of Supremacy exacted first of all by Queen Elizabeth . cap. 4. num . 52. & 53. Oath of K. Stephen for the maintenance of the libertyes of holy Church of England . cap. 8. n. 27. Obedience of Clergy-men due to the Ciuill Magistrate and how . cap. 2. num . 33. & 34 Obedience of K. Edward the Confessor to the Popes of Rome in his tyme. cap. 5. num . 16.17 . & 18. Occasion of the breach of K. Iohn with the Sea Apostolicke . cap. 9. num . ●7 . Occasions of K. Henry the 8. his breach from the pope . cap. 15. numero . 10. & 11. Offa King of the Mercians his confirmation of Peter-pence to the Sea of Rome . cap. 6. num . 70. Ordinances and decrees of Pope Formosus for the Church of Englād . cap. 6. num . 59. Origens of spirituall and temporall iurisdiction different . cap. 15. num . 29. Osius his resolute speach to Constanti●s the Emperour cap. 4. num . 7. P. Palles of the Archbishops of England accustomed to be taken at Rome . cap. 7. n. 11. S. Paules esteeme of spirituall Power giuen vnto him & other the Apostles and their successors . cap. 2. n. 13. & 14. His eager reprehension of vvomans superiority in the Church . cap. 4. n. 32. Peace of the Church , what it is ? cap. 7. num . 16. Pascalis the pope his letter to King Henry the first , cap. 8. num . 10. Pennance of K. Henry the 2. at the body of S. Thomas of Canterbury . cap. 9. num . 19. Peter-pence paid to Rome , and the beginning therof . cap. 6. n. 67.68 . & 69. The same cōfirmed by K Offa. ibidem . num . 70. Also by K. Adelnulph . ibid. num . 71. In like manner by K. Canutus the Dane . ibid. num . 72. By K. Edward the Confessor . ibidem num . 73. Item by K. VVilliam the Conquerour . ibid. num . 74. And by other kinges vntill K. Henry the 8. ibid. num . 75. Perills that often rise by the insolency of priuate men . cap. 16. num . 3● . Pilgrimage to Rome for deuotion by diuers of our English kinges cap. 6. num . 76.77 . & deinceps . Plurality of benefices and vvho can dispense therwith . cap. 14. num . 20. Pointes commendable in a good pastor . cap. 4. num 37. Pope Honorius his priuiledges to K. Edwyn of Northumberland . cap. 6. n. 22. Pope Formosus his excommunication of K. Edward the first before the Conquest . cap. 6. num . 57. His decrees and Ordinances for the Church of England . ibid. num 59. Pope Pascalis his letter to K Henry the first . cap. 6. num . 10. Popes prouisions in Englād for Ecclesiasticall liuinges to strāgers . cap. 12. n. ● . Power and the author therof . c. 2. n. 2. Power spirituall and temporall and the different endes therof , cap 2. n. 3. & 4. & deinceps per totum caput . Power spirituall of the Church and pastors therof . cap. 3. n. 10. Power spirituall more eminent than temporall . cap. 2. n. 19. Premunire , and the first beginning of that law . cap. 12. n. 11. Priuiledges and franquises of Churches and monasteryes procured from the Pope . cap. 6. n. 37.38 . & deinceps . Priuiledges of the Abbey of Euesham . cap. 6. n. 42. Of the Abbey of S. Albans . ibid. n. 43. Priuiledges of Glastenbury-Abbey from Rome . cap 6. num . 45. Priuiledges of VVestminster procured by K. Edward the Confessor . cap. 6. num . 47. Priuiledges of Ecclesiasticall men in temporall courtes . cap. 7. n. 18. & alibi saepissimè Promotion of strangers to Ecclesiasticall dignityes in England . cap. 10. num . 21. & 22. & cap. 11. num . 36. The inconueniences therof to Englishmen . ibidem . Protestants doctrine condemned by K. Henry the 8. cap. 15. num . 15. Prouisions against bribing at Rome . cap. 13. n. 21. Prouisions of Ecclesiasticall liuinges in England made by the Pope . c. 12. n. 5. The Cōplaintes therof by Englishmen . ibidem . The continuance of the same in England . cap. ibid. n. 9. Agreemēt therabout made betweene the Pope and the Kinge . cap. ibid. n. 21. Q. Queene Eleanour Mother to K. Richard the first her iorney to Sicily cap. 9. num . 29. Her returne by Rome and busines there with the Pope . ibid. num . ● . Her complaintes and petition to Pope Celestinus . ibid. num . 39.40 . & 41. Queene Elizabeths spirituall authority giuen her by Parlament . cap. 3. num . 3. & 4. The inconueniences and absurdityes that follow therof . ibid. n. 4. 5. & 6. & cap. 4. num . 27. Her singularity in that point . ibidem . num . 28. Her supremacy mistiked by Protestants , & Puritans . cap. 4. num . 41. 42. 43 , 44. 45. 46. 47. & 48. Causes that moued her first to accept of the Supremacy . cap. 15. num 35. & 36. Her conferen●e vvith Syr Fran. Inglefield . ibid. num 37. Item with the Count of Feria , the Spanish Embassadour . ibid. num . ●● . Her protestation about the Real-presence in the Sacrament . ibidem n 39. Her Conferēce with Mounsieur Lansacke the French Embassadour . ibidem . num . 41. Her owne inclination towards Catholicke Religion . ibid num . 42. How she vvas drawne to great extremes and cruelty against Catholicks . cap. 15. num . 43. Queene Mary her raigne . cap. 15. n. 3● . Her restoring of Catholicke Religion in England . cap. 15. num . 31. & 32. R. Reasons that shew william the Conrour to haue alwayes acknowledged the Sea of Rome . cap. 7. num . 8.9.10 . & deinceps . Recourse to Rome presently after Englands Conuersion about Ecclesiasticall affaires . cap. 6. num . 10,11 . & 12. Recourse to Rome by the Kinges of England and Scotland in their greatest Controuersyes . cap. 11. num . 44. Recusancy of Puritans , and the first cause therof . cap. 16. num 5. Recusancy of Catholickes from the beginning of Q. Elizabeth raigne . cap. 16. num . 7. Reformation of the English Clergy by King Henry the 7. cap. 14. num . 15. Reliques sent to King Osway of Northumberlād by Pope Vitalianus . c. 6. n. 24. Resignatiō of inuestitures by K. Henry the first . cap. 8. num . 14. Restraintes of exercising the Popes Authority in England , and how the same vvere first made . cap. 2. num . 41. & cap. 10. num . 25. & cap. 12. num . 35. King Richard the first his raigne c. 9. num . 22. 23. & deinceps . His misfortunes ibid. num . 23. His behauiour and oath at his Coronation . ibid. num . 25. His voiage to Ierusalem . ibid. num . 26. & 27. His kingdome commended to the Popes protection . ibid num . 27. His mother sent from Rome to Sicily . ibid. num . 30. His letter to Pope Clement the 3. ibid num . 31. His captiuity in Austria . ibid. num 38. K. Richard the second his disorders & cause therof . cap. 21. num . 42. His confirmation of Church-libertyes . ibid. num . 43. His obedience to the Church-Censures . ibid num . 47. S. Sanctuary graunted by the Pope to S. Iohns Church in London . cap. 14. num . 9. Denyed by the temporall iudges . ibid. num 10. Scruple of Conscience vrged vpon M. Attorney . cap. 16. num . 14. Sectaryes not any vvay compared to Catholickes & vvhy ? c. 1. n. 13.14 . & 15. Sectaryes their vayne comendation of Truth . cap. 1. num 16. Singularity of knovvledge in heretickes . cap. 1. num . 5. 6. & 7 Statute in Parlament for giuing spirituall authority to Q. Elizabeth . cap. 3. num . ● . ●● . ● 19. The absurdityes that therof ensue . ibid. num . 5. 6. & 7. & num . 19.20 . 21. 23. & 24. Statutes of K. Henry the 3. in fauour of the Church . cap. ●0 . num . 27. Statute of Merton made by K. Henry the 3. cap. 10. num . 39. Statute of Bigamy anno 4. Edouardi 1. cap. 11. num . 30. Statute of Carliele made in the raigne of King Edward the first . c. 11. n. ●9 . Statute against Lollards . cap. 13 n. 22. & 23. Statute for reformation of the Clergy . cap. 14. num . 15. K. Stephen his raigne ouer England . cap. 8. num . 25. His oath for the libertyes of the Church . ibid. num . 27. His inconstancy by euill counsaile . ibid. num . 28. His violence vsed against Clergy-men . ibid. His citation and appearance before the Bishops . ibid num . 31. Stigand Archbishop of Canterbury deposed . cap. 7. num . 9. Strangers their promotions to Ecclesiasticall dignityes in England , and inconueniences therof . cap. 10. num . 21. 22. & 23. & cap. 11. num . 36. Remedyes sought therof from the Popes of those tymes . ibid. num . 38. Supremacy Ecclesiasticall not possibly in a woman . cap. 4. num . 26. & 27. Supremacy assumed first by K. Henry the 8. cap. 15. num . 13.14 . & 15. Also by K. Edward the 6 ibid num . 26. Item by Q. Elizabeth . ibid. num . 34.35 . 36. & 37. Suppression of the kinghtes of the temple . cap. 11. num . 43. Synne of heresy how great and greiuous . cap. 16. num . 26 & 27. T Tenantes of the Church priuiledged .   Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A09061-e180 A strāge attempt to impugne Catholicke religion by Catholicke Princes lawes in Englād . The importance of M. Attorneys Plea. The singularity of M. Attorneyes paradox . Ci● . Tuscul q. 3. M. Attorney chalenged of his promise . The Author promiseth all modesty in this answere . M. Attorney bound in conscience and honour to enforme a nevv his Maiesty . * M. Garnet . M. Attorneyes ouerlashing in speech . Math. 5. Math. 12 The Diuel●s sinnes in ●●pting Adam . M. Garnetts case . Hovv things heard in confessiō may not be vttered by Catholick doctrine . A partition not afterward performed . M. Garnet an honest man by M. Attorneyes warrant . M. Attorneyes wit in making a bloudy law to be a sweet lavv . About Equiuocation . About the antiquity & vniuersality of the Protestant Church . A strāge discourse of M Attorney about his Church . * Many all 's . A theologicall argumet for the Roman Church . Mar. vltimo I●an . 14. & 10. Mat. 10. 1 Timo. 3. Mat. 18. Rom. 1. Epist. 105 contra lit . Petiliani . The morall argument of impossibility for the vniuersall Church to fall , or vanish away . Application of this morall argument . A most euident demonstration . Stange and Chimericall imaginations . The differēt vse of the touch-stone for finding out the Church . The basenes & contemptibility of M. Attorneyes Church . M. T. F. in his Apologie an . 1599. A manifest calūniation against M. Garnet . ●rent . ● An●●i● . ● seely ●uen●●n of ●ookes and trea●ons . Cicero de Oratore . A fond fayned blasphemy . Ioh. 11. The meaning of Caiphas in speaking of the death of Christ. Luc. 13. 〈◊〉 4. ●n Ioanne●● . The meaning of M. Garnet in vsing the wordes of Caiphas . Isa. 60. Psal. 109. Sundry calumniatiōs . M. Attorney in his vaunting vayne . All ancient English lavves in fauour of Catholicke religiō . The particulers brought in by M. Attorney refuted . Paulus Quartus C●●dinall ●oole . The arraignment of M. Garnet . Ioan. 19. The law misapplyed against Christ our Sauiour Le●●t 24 The priuiledge of secrecy to be obserued in Confession . Gods truth alwayes & euerie where one . Psal. 116. Sap. 5. Math. 7. Gregor . 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ●ngel . ●oan . The dangerous state of ●●r En●lish ●●torneyes office . Notes for div A09061-e8130 The important weight of this controuersy . Two partes of Religiō . August . contra epist. Fū●●menti . cap. 5. Math. 18 See Magdebar . Gen. 2. li. 2. cap. 3. col . 41. 42. & deinceps . Magde . ibid. Col. 53. 54. & deinceps . See Caluin l. 1. instit . cap. 11. & lib. 3. cap. 5. True power and spirituall iurisdiction the only ●●e ●uide to saluatiō . Math. ●● . & 18. Chrysost. lib. 3. de ●acer . & 〈◊〉 4. & 5. de verb●s 〈◊〉 . D Hier. epist. ad Heliodor . de vita● solitaria . Hilar. Can. 16 in Mat. & alij alibi . Three grounds of spirituall authoritie supposed by three different religiōs . * See Cartwright , Iunius , & other of then alleadged in the Suruey of pretended discipline . Cap. 16. Rom. 13. Math. 24 1. pet . 2. The foūdation of the Protestants assertiō . Acts 20. Puritane groūdes . Acts 1.23 . Acts 6.5 . 1. Tit. 5. Groūdes of the Catholicks for spiritual iurisdiction . Important consequences . Sir Frācis Hastings against the vvard-vvord & M. Sutcliffe in his defence . Puritan and Protestants grounds vncompatible . Heb. 5. 2. paralip . 10. Psal. 2. Psal. 1 * Cyprian . l. 2. ep . 3. August . l. 16. de Ciuit. Des. cap. 22. & l. 1. contra aduers. leg . & Proph. cap. 2. & lib. 2. cont . lit . Petil. c. 37. Chrysost . hom . 35. in Gen. Clem. Alexād . lib. 4. strom . Ambros. l. 4. de Sacram. c. 3. Hierom . in cap. 1. ad Titum . & alij . Ioan. 10. Caluin . lib. 4. instit . cap. 19. §. 31. & 14. §. 31. * Infra cap. 2. The Protestant and Puritan yelde more in deed , to the Catholicke then to ech other . The Protestant and Puritan ministers not admitted the one by the other . What the Puritan is to the Protestant by this grounde of spirituall power . Mar. vlt. Luc. 10. 1. Tim. 3. Mat. 23. Mat. 7. Iohn . 10. Notes for div A09061-e9930 The Title examined . Cicer ●ib . 3. Tus●●● . quaest . The indifferency required in treating this controuersy . The vvord Ius , extendeth it self further then Lex . a ●●lu●ss de Iusti●ia & ●●re . b Ibidem ●●lus . c 〈◊〉 & Cel●us ibidem . d 〈◊〉 5. cap● ● . e 2● q. 57. art . 1. f ●ib 5. E●ym●l . c. 3. That temporall Princes make not ecclesiasticall lavves but receaue them . Of Error , and Ignorance . The definition , & diui●●on o● Ignorāce See 2. dist . q 42 & D. The 2● . q. 76 art . 1. 2. ● . Ignorance nega●i●e Eccles. 5. Rom. 12. Iob. 9. Ignorance priuatiue . Diuerse sortes of priuatiue Ignorace D. Thom●● . 1 pag. 101. & ● . 2. q. ● . art . ●● q. ●● . art . ● . Strange speeches of imagined ignorance by the Attorney . Iob. 9. Ecclesiastes 9. Rom. 12 . Syr Francis Hasting● in his VVatch-vvorde . No● 〈…〉 variety or depth of learninge . VVhy euery Catholike hath more knovvledg than an hundred secta●● . 2 Of truth● . 2. Cor. 13. Truth vaynly cōmended by Sectaries . * Se Hilar. lib. 2. ad Constant. Von ●nt Li●●● lib cont . proph●n haret no●t● . August l 1. de 〈◊〉 . c. 3. & tract . 18. in Ioan & l. 7 de Gen. ad lib. cap. 9. The vvay hovv to finde out the Truth . Tert. lib. aduersus Prax. cap. 20. Tert. lib. de Prescript . cons. haret . cap 2● . Aug. 〈◊〉 1. cont . Gana . Donat. c. 1. & form . 131 de tempt . & lib. de ●ni● . Eccles cont . Petil. cap. 2. Vincent . La●in . lib. cont . proph . haer . 〈◊〉 . Pa●amus Epise . Bar●in . cap. 1. Symph . The application of the Fathers directions . Vide etiam Psal. Aug. contra partem Donat. & O●t●tū . Mileuit . contra Parm●n . August . de g●●us ad ●● , imperfect . cap. 1. 3 Birth-right of lavves . The Attorneys maior admitted , and his minor denyed . Of the antiquity of our municipall lavves . The commodities & discommodities of our municipal lavves . The birth-●●gh● of our common lavves . The obiection of externe lavvyers against diuerse points of ours . Se also Syr Thomas Moore Lib. 1. Viepia . VVhether common lavvyers determine and deale vvithout passion . Anno 1. Edvvards 3 ● . 2. Inst●● . 2. The Catholike religion , the anciēt , birth-right of ●nglish●●n . Math. 10. Marc. 10. Against bitter vvri●ing in controsies . Matthevv 〈◊〉 , Thomas ●el , VVille● , and others . 4 Of vvryting of cōtrouersies against cōscience . Tit. 4. * Se S. Augustine 〈◊〉 . de ●ut D● cap 51. l. 7 de Ge● . ad lit . c. ● . & nact 8 in Iu●● l●b . 〈…〉 . VVhat is the comm●n ●●e vvn● truth in re●● to and vv●● impugneth it . The difference of substāt●all proof betvvene M. Attorney and vs. VVhy Catholiks are not to be thought to vvrite against their conscience . Tyme of 〈…〉 . M●●cb . 6. 〈◊〉 Notes for div A09061-e14880 God the author of all lavvful povver . Rom. 13. The different ends & obiects , of spirituall , and temporall povver . Spirituall & tēmporal povver , as spirit , and flesh in a man. Temporal and spirituall authoritie separated in the Pri●●●● 〈◊〉 . Act. 20. 2. Cor. 6.4 Anabaptists . Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Act. 10. Spirituall iurisdictiō independent of Tēporall . Tempo●al povver not imm●diat●ly but mediately from God. 〈◊〉 ●● Mat● . 18. Ioan ●1 . . Leg. 2 ff . de Iu●●sd . 〈◊〉 Iud. & l. vlt. ff . d●●● . cui mand . iurisdict . In cap pastora ● in p●●●●ip de offic . delegati . In c●p . praeterea ●od●● tit . VVhat is the spirituall povver of the church & Pastors therof . Math. 26. Ioan. 20. Se S. Cyril . l 12. in Ioan. ● . 55. and S. Cyprian lib. de ●nt . E●●●es● . & a●ist . 73 ad 〈◊〉 . Matth. 16. Chrysost. homil . 5. de verbis Esa. Vidi Dominum . Galat. 1. 1. Cor. 13. 2. Cor. 10. 2. Cor. 13. S. Paules esteeme of the high povver giuen vnto him & to other Apostles & their Successours . 1. Cor. 5. 1. Tim. 1. Diuers excomunications by the Apostles . Act. 8. Aug. lib. 1. contra Aduer 〈◊〉 & Proph. c. 10. Chrys●st hom . 4. ad Helr . & 〈◊〉 fe●tur . 11. quaest . 3. cap. ●1 . Aug. ibid. Cypr. lib. 1. epist. 1. ad 〈◊〉 Deut. 6. Math. 16. Tvvo points of Spirituall Iurisdictiō internall and externall . Matth. 6. 1. Cor. 5. Aug lib. 2. retract . cap. 17. & l. de correct . & Gra. c. 15. Se 〈◊〉 3. in cap. Quaren de rebu● signifie . Aristotle . The eminency of Spirituall Povver aboue Temporall . Greg. orat . Ad 〈◊〉 t●mere p●r●ulso● . Chrys. lib. 3. de sacerdoti● , Hom. 4. in cap. 6. Esai . S. Chrysost. sentence of spirituall povver . Ioan. 20. Math. 28. Chrys. ibid● Chrysost. homil . 4 de versu ●sa . Vidi Dominum . Matth. 16. Chrysost. vbi supra . hom . ● . Marke this notable discourse of S. Chrysostome . Matth. 18. A vveighty consideration . Anno 116. Diuers examples of S. Ambrose Libellus Ambrosij . ● . 32. Episcopal authoritie greater then Imperiall in matters of faith . Anno 387. Lib. ● . epistola●ū epistola . 13. S. Ambrose his combat about deliuering vp a Church to the Emperour . Ambr. ibid. S. Ambros. conflict about Church vessells . Ambros. concione de basilis non tradendit harot●●i● , aut gentelibus . Tom. 5. The Emperour a childe of the church and not aboue the Church . S. Ambrose his correction of Theodosius the Emperour . Ambros. epist. 18. Anno 390. Theodoret. lib. 5. hist. cap. 17. Matth. 21. Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 4. Hovv these tvvo povvers are to be combyned . See of the distinctiō of these 2. names the Canons of the Apostles . Can. 12. 13. 15. & Tertul. l. de Mo●●g . and Conn . Nuo● . 1. Can. 1. ● . ● . 1. 17. 18. 19. &c. Note . 1 The obedience of Cleargie men , due to the Ciuill magistrates . Rom. 2. 1. Pet. 2. Chrysost. comment . in Rom. 13. Valent apud Theod. l. 14. hist. cap. 7. Nicol. 1. epist. ad Mica●lem . Imper. 2 Cleargie men in spirituall matters cannot be vnder the laytie . 3 Ha● clergie mens persons & good● are ●●●mp●●d 〈…〉 povver . See Concil . La●eran . sub Alex. 3. part l. c. 10. ● s●b ●● . no● . 3. c 46. Item cap. Quanqu● de Censibus , & cap. Clericis , & cap. Nonnulli , &c. in 6. See the Councell of To ●t . also ●on . 3. can . 13. & Matis●on , can . 8. 4 Exemptiō of Clergie men en Iure diu●●● . Gen. 47. 1. Esd. 7. Exod. 30. 1. Num. 5. S. Leo serm . 8. de p●ss . Dor●n● . 5 Exemptiō of the Cleargie by Imperiall ●avves . Cons●antin 〈◊〉 ad Auill apud Euses . ● . 10. ●ist . ●●p . 7 cod . Ib●●d . ● . 16. ●●t . & ● . 26. & ●od . 〈◊〉 l. San●imu● 〈◊〉 Eccl. Hi●ram . 6 Exēptions confirmed by particuler Kings and Princes . Magna Charta arti●●d . Cleri . 7 The competence betvvene temporall and ecclesiasticall Magistrates in some externall things . Hovv restraints came in of exercising some points of the Popes auncient authority . Notes for div A09061-e21520 Caudery his Case . R●tulo . 304. Reportes . sol . 1. The groūd of the controuersie . Statute for spirituall authoritie Anno 1. Elizabethae . The Spirituall authoritie giuen to Q. Elizabeth by Statute . Certaine cases of inconueniences vpon Q. Elizabethes supreme spirituall authority . Lutherus . lib. de abroganda missa . Et ● cap. Ba●il . The first argument of Caudery . The reply against Caudery . Reportes fo● . 5. Three shiftes re●u●ed . Reporte● fol. 6. * 12. Isa● . ● . 22. & 10. Edvv. 4. &c. 3 Shifte . M. Attorneys Argument à fortiore of no force . An example against M. Attorney . The secōd argument of Cauderyes case . Strange resolutiō . Reportes fol. 7. * 11. Hen. 7. 9. 14. Hen. 6. 14. &c. An example vvith the application therof . Caudery shifted of ●ightly . The third argument of Caudery & hovv it vvas ansvvered . Reportes fol. 7. Marke this kinde of reasoning . The last ansvvere of the ●●dg●e ●vherin 〈◊〉 case 〈◊〉 Caudery ●s●uded . ●●p●rtes ● . ● . Anno. 1. E●izabeth ● . The absurdity & str●nge ●●a●l●y of this reso●u●ion . Reportes fol. 1. VVhy so great circuit of vvordes is vsed in the Statute of Supremacy . See Mar●mus 〈◊〉 epist. ad ●●ector . Brand and Caluin in c. ● . Amos. & epist. ad Myc●s . and Viretus d●alog 3. de a●●●s damonibus . &c. A nevv deuise to giue the headship to Q. Elisabeth vvithout the title of Head. Statut. 26. Henr. 8 c. 1. anno Christi 1535. Statut. 1. Edvva●d . 6 an . Domin● 15●7 . The absurdities of the Statute decrees about soueraigne spirituall authority . See G●lby in his Dialogue . The ma● Cartvvright , ● others . 〈◊〉 state 〈◊〉 the ●●●stion . Notes for div A09061-e25620 Proofes de Iure and de Facto . ●●portes fol. 9. Freedome of speach in the Fathers to Emperours . * Sup. c. ● . Nazian . orat . ad ●ues timore porculs●s . Anno 387. Theodoret. lib. 8. hist. & Paul● . in v●ta S. Ambrosij Ruffin lib. 2. Inst. c. 18. Zozomen . lib. 7. c. 24. Ambros. epist . 33. ad Sororem . Chrisost. homil 4. de verb. Isa. Vidi Dominū . &c. ●odyes to ●●e Kinge ●●ules to ●●e priest . Hebr. 7. Athan●s . epist ad so ●●●riam vitā●ge●tes . The vvords of holy Bishops to Constantius . Athanas. ● . ●●d . The resolute speech of Osius to the same Constātius . Matt. 22. Luc. 20. S. Athanasius his seuere reprehension of the Emperour Constantius . To the second argument of M. Attorney . Reportes f●l . 8. M. Attornes 〈…〉 ●o●●●e . Of Clergy and Lay men . * See of the distinction of these names the Canons ●f the Apostles can . 12. 13. 15 &c. Te●●ul 〈◊〉 de Mona . & Cont Nicen . ●a● . 1. 2. 3. 5. 17. 1● . 19 &c. Hist Tr● . 〈◊〉 . l●b . 7. cap. 12. The diffeence of Courtes vvhat it proueth , Reportes sol . 9. A ●●i●e of M. Attor●ys po●● oft . He that giueth povver to another to doe a thing must first haue it i● himselfe . A ●●vv dem●● to make Ecclesiasticall lavves to be the Kings lavves . Reportes Admitting of other Prince● lavves shevveth rather subiection then superiority in the admitter . The ansvver to M. Attorneys instance . Hovv the Canon-lavves vvere receaued in England . The conclusion of the first part of this chapter . See the Protestant Booke of Dangerous positions against the Puritanes anno . 1591 , lib. ● . c. 1. Of vvomens gouerment . Canon-lavve . Cap. de monia●●us desent : & excom & cap. Noua de paenis . & remiss . & cap. Muli●rem ●ausa 33. q. 5. vbe multa Patrū sent . Peferūtur & Silis . & 〈◊〉 Sunesta in verbe Abatissa . D. Th● . in 4. dist . 25. q. 2. Calu in An●id , a● can . 10. Concil . Trid. sess . 7. & l. 4. inst . cap. 3. & 15. Iuth . lib de Capt. Rabil . cap. de Ordine & in articulu à Leone 10. da●na●● , art . 1● . & lib. contra stuliam ●●on● 10. * Vbe supra . Innocent 3. cap. noua de panet & re●●ision . Of the Ciuill lavv . Lib. 2. ff . de regul●● Iuris . The lavv of nature . 2. Gen. ●9 . 1. Tim. 2● . 1. Cor. 1● . A vvomā cannot be the head of man in spirituall matters . Absurdities ensuing the supremacy Ecclesiasticall of a vvoman . Heb. 3. Gal. 3. Act. 3. The singularitie of Q. Elizabeths case . Of the lavv Euangelicall . That all miraculous actions of God in the old testament are to be ascribed properly to Christ. Ioh. 4. Iud. 1. 1. Cor. 11. 1. Tim. 2. Gen. 2. Gen. 3. Gen. 3. Hovv vv●man must be subiect to man in all respects . 1. Cor. 14. 1. Cor. 11. Hovv eagerly S. Paul did stand against vv●mens superioritie in the Church . 1. Tim. 2. I●a● . 20. Math. 16. Ioan. 21 〈◊〉 20. 1. Cor. 12. V●●●ersall 〈…〉 ●gainst M Attor●●● 〈◊〉 dist . 〈◊〉 Yno . 〈◊〉 S●●●ole D●●●ors . 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 in 〈…〉 . 〈◊〉 Doctors , Fathers , and expositors . Chrys●● . 5. ser. Quid regulares famina viris non ●●habitant . A notable discourse of S. Chrys. l. ● . de sacordo●i● . sub initiu●● . Ioan. 21. 〈◊〉 cō●●●dable 〈◊〉 good ●●stor . A vvomē 〈◊〉 ex●●●led 〈◊〉 ●●urch-g●●ern●●nt . Hovv much S. Chrysost. authoritie ought to be esteemed in this point . The municipall lavvey of England . * Infra . ● . 6. demonstrat . 10. & in cap. 7. Manifest reasons . A vvoman can not be Priest A●●●rdi●●●f cōse●● 〈◊〉 A ●●eat 〈…〉 Consent of Protestant vvriters . Caluin in cap. 6. Amos & epist. 54. ad mycon●●● . Beza in ●●fes●r●ne cap. 5. & de pr●sb . fol. 32. 43. Viretus Dialog . 3. 〈…〉 ad 〈…〉 burg . 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 The repetition and cōclusion of all . A point vvorthy of laughter . K. Henry ● Ed●●●d 6. ●●●tvvin 〈…〉 cap 1. A point ●●rthy of 〈◊〉 . The oath of supremacy exacted of Q. Elizabeth . The finall consideration vpon all . * Monsieur La●sa● . Embassador of the K. of Frāce and others vvherof see more . Infra cap. 15. Notes for div A09061-e32980 Reportes fol. 1. Of English Kings before the Conquest . Reportes fol. 9. The Charter of K. Kenulphus anno 755. Stamford . lib. 3. c. 39. fol. 1012. This charter vvas pleaded 1. H●nr . 7. 23. 25. 〈◊〉 The first pointe of M. Attorneys collection refuted . Bed. lib. 4. hist. Angl. cap. 5. Th● secōd po●nt ansvv●●●d 〈◊〉 the 〈…〉 then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 third 〈…〉 Of diuers sortes of exemptiō● granted to pious vvorks by Popes . Ossa K. of Mercians . Paris . i● hist. Angl. anno 794. 〈◊〉 Gul●●l . 〈◊〉 l. de 〈◊〉 talibus 〈◊〉 ast . S. ●●ustin . 〈◊〉 Char. 〈◊〉 K. ●●●elbert ●605 . ●●ainst ●●●●ders 〈◊〉 Abbey 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 . . Harpe●sel● hist. Angl. saculo 10. c. 9. ex Mariano Scoto . K. Kenulfus gaue his Charter to Abindon by authority of the Pope . The instance of K. Edvvard the confessors charter examined . Alredus 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 S. Edo●●●ds . ●●●g Ed●●rd the ●●●●●ssors ●●●●ection 〈◊〉 the ●●pe . 〈◊〉 1033. 〈◊〉 S. ●●●vards 〈◊〉 19. cap. 2. Rom. 13. Rog. Houed . part 1. ant . al. in vit . Hen. 2. Ioan. Fox in Act. & Monument . The 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 King Edvvards gouernment 〈…〉 Ch●●ch vva● by 〈…〉 . Se● Baron . 〈…〉 97. The K. of Spaine his Ecclesiasti●●ll Iu●●●●●●tion 〈…〉 Notes for div A09061-e36080 Hovv little M. Attorney proueth . Ten demonstrations be●o●● the conquest . 1 Of the lavves made by auncient Kings before the conquest . Malmes . l. ● de gestis Regum Anglorum c. 2. in I●● . Differences of lavves and lavv-makers before the conquest . Fox Acts and Mon. pag. 149. See the Conquerours Ecclesiasticall lavves cap. sequent● . What the 〈◊〉 , he● 〈…〉 . Fox vbi supra . * Cap. 5. Roger Hodon par . 1. Annal. in vita Henr. 2 Magna carta cap. 1. Confirmation of Churches libertyes in England . Articuli Cleri an . 9. Edvvard . ● . 2 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 Eccles●●●●ca 〈…〉 coun●●●●●ine 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 P●e●●● . See Bede lib. 1. histor . Angl. c. 2● . Of Recourse made to Rome presently after our English Church vvas founded . Ibidem . The ansvvere of Pope Gregory cōcerninge French Bishops . Beda lib. 1. hist. cap. 27. & Grego● . in Regist. lib. 12. c. 15. 〈◊〉 Grego●●●● com●i●sion to Augu●●ine . Bede lib. 2. hist. Anglicana cap. 5. The conuersion of other Kingdomes after that of Kent . Anno 600. Anno 604. Anno 709. Anno 606. Anno 635. Anno 662. ●up . cap. 2. ● 4. ●cclesia●ticall ●●vves all ●●ne , though in ●●●serent ●ingdo●es . M. Attorney his euasion ansvvered . 3 That all Ecclesiasticall vveighty matters vvere referred by our Kings & people to Rome . ● . Augu●●ine appointed his succes●ors by or●●r & au●horitie to Rome . Anno Do●●ni 604. 〈◊〉 lib. 1. 〈…〉 p 4. Anno 610. 〈◊〉 de 2. hist. ● Ethel●●rt and Sebert ●ovv they ●epended ●● Rome . K. Eadbald an Apostata reclaymed . Beda lib. 2. hist. cap. 8. Autho●ity giuen by the Pope to make Bishops in England . Malmesb. in fas●is . anno Christi 621. K. Edvvyn demaunded Bishops frō Rome . Beda lib. 2. ● cap. 17. Pope Honorius his ●riuiledges graun●ed to K. Edvvyn . Anno Domini 665. Bede lib. 3. hist. cap. 29. Bede ibid. anno Domini 665. The Pope sendeth reliques to the King and Qeeene & promiseth an Archbishop . Bede lib. 4. histor . Anglican● c. 1. Abbott Adrian . Theodorus sent for Archbishop of Canterbury Anno 669. ●eda lib. 4. ●●st . cap. 2. A happy ●ate of ●he English Church . Malmesb. lib. 2. de Regib●s Anglorum c. 8. K. Edgar sent for authority to Rome to reforme the Clergie . M. Attorney challenged . K. Ethelbald . See Stovve anno 71● . Malmesb. lib. 1. de gest●s Regum Anglorum . & lib. 1. de gostir Pontific●● . The at●●mpte of ●●ng Offa againsts the ●●risdictiō of Canterbury . See diuers ●auses of Al●uins ●pistle to ●thelard ● Malmesb . lib. 1. de gostis ●●●tificu● . The epistle of K. Kenulphus to Pope Leo. The humble petitiō of King Kenulphus . Key of knovvledge . The determination of Pope Leo 3. for Archbish . Athelarde . Kings and Princes subiects to the Archb . of Canterbury ; in spirituall matters . Missions made by authority of the ●●pe ●●●rent . in ●●r●n . in ●ngl . Dispen●●tions of ●ost im●ortance ●●ocured 〈◊〉 Rome . Malmesb. lib. ● . de vltis Pontifi●um in S●●thu●● . Malmesb. ibidem . Stovv in anno ●39 . Malmesb. lib. 2. d●gestis Regum Anglorum cap. 2. Alredus Ri●uall , in vita D. Edvvard● . Polidorus & alij ●● Iohan●● . Tvvo ex●mples af●er the ●onquest . ●●anderus lib. 1. de 〈◊〉 . 4 〈…〉 , ●riuiled●es , 〈◊〉 of Churches , Monasteryes , Hospitalls , &c. by the ●ope . Abbott Biscopus sent to Rome for priuiledges . Bed● lib. 4. hist. Angl. cap. 10. Bede t●m . 3. in vita S. Bertolph● . The priuiledges of S. Bertolphus his Monastery . Ceadwalla . Inas . Malmesb. 1. de g●stis ●●gum Anglorum c●p . 2. Malmesb. 〈◊〉 . Adel●●us his booke of virginity . Malmesb. ●● 2. histo●● nouella . Florentius in chronico anno 70● . Priuiledges of the Abbey of Euesham . The priuiledges of S. Albanes founded by King Offa. Math. Vestmonasteriensis in historia anno 794. ●at . Paris vita Hen●●●●ter●●s ●●no . 1256. Malmesb. 〈◊〉 2. de 〈◊〉 Regum anglorum ●●p . 1. Priuiledges grāted to Glastenbury at the petition of K. Edgar . Malmes . i● vita Edgar● . Ingulphus in historia de Cr●yland . King Edgar charter confirmed the Popes charter . The priuiledges of VVestminster procured by K. Edvvard . Alredus Rieuell in vita S. Edwards . Anno Domini 1054. Ibidem . Mutuall letters betvvene Pope Nicolas and King Edvvard . Priuiledges of VVestminster vvith a terrible curse to the breakers . 5 Appeales and complaints to the Sea of Rome about controuersies that fell out . Appeales more frequēt since the Conquest . Appeales before the Conquest . Bede lib. 4. historia cap. 11. & 13. S. VVilfrides Appeales to Rome anno . 679. Beda lib. 5. histor Ang. cap. 10. Beda ibid. The second Appeale of S. VVilfride to Rome . Bede ibid. Malmesbur . lib. 3. de gestis Pontif. Anglorum in Vvilfrid● . Malmesb. 〈◊〉 . The epi●●le of S. ●●eodorus 〈◊〉 fauour VV●l●●id S. 〈◊〉 vvho●e he had ●mpu●ned S. VVilfrid restored to his Bishoprick of York the secōd tyme. Malmesb. ibidem fol. 152. The Decision and cōmaundement of Pope Iohn . The humilitie & obedience of our Kings in those ancient dayes . S. Elflede . Supra ●●m●n . 3. Many examples of Appeales . Malmesb. lib. 3. de gestis Pontif. anno . 745. Malmesbu . de rebus ges●is Regum Anglor . lib. 2. Pope Formosus did excōmunicate K. Edvvard the first and hovv the matter vvas amended . * This he speaketh in respec● of the cōuersation vvith Danes that vvere Infidells . Malmesb. lib. 1. de gestis Pontificum Anglorum . Decrees and ordinances of Pope Formosus for the church of Englād . The vigilancy of ancient Popes ouer England . Beda lib. 4. ●●st Angl. cap. 8. 20. & 23. A consideration of moment . 6 VVhat Kings Archbishops & Bishops liued togeather , and vvhat lavves they vvere like to make . The concurrence of Kings and Bishops in Kent and London for the first age of English Christianity . 1 A necessary inference . 7 The concourse vvith other Kings , Princes , and Catholicke people abroade . The vniuersall authority of the Sea of Rome during the time of our Christian kings before the Conquest . Marke the consequence . 8 The ma●ing tributary to the Sea of Rome the Kingdome ●● Englād . The beginning of Peter-pence . Polidor . Virgil lib. 5. de hist. Angl. Stovv in Inas 〈◊〉 705. K. Inas his lavves in fauour of the Pope . Kings Offa his cōfirmation of the tribute of Peterpēce anno . Dom. 77● . The greatnes of K. Offa. The confirmation of Peter pence by King Adelnulfe anno . Dom. 947. Polidor . 〈◊〉 . 5. historia . A speciall note . Ingulfuri● histor . Monasteri● de Cr●yland fol. 50● . The great care King Ca●ulus the Dane had that Peter pence or other Ecclesiasticall dutyes should be paied an . 1032. Auncient lavves against M. Attorney . Alredus in vita S. Eduard● . S. Edvvards confirmation of Peter pence and other duties an . 1062. R●●●rius Houiden par . 2. Annal in vita Henries 2. Peter pence confirmed by the Cōqueror anno 1070. Peter pence continued after the Conquest vntil K. Henry the eight . Anno Domini 1532. 9 The going of diuerse Kings and Princes to Rome , for deuotion to that Sea. * Supra Demon. 3. Acts and Monumēts pag. 121 Beda lib. 4 histo . Augiscana cap. 29. The admirable ●oing of 〈◊〉 kings to Rome . S. Egvvyn Bishop of VVorcester . Supra D●mon . 4. Platina ●● Constantino PP . Floren. in Chron. anno 723. Malmesh . lib. 1. de gestis Regum Anglorum . Beda lib. 5. hist. Angl. cap. 7. K. Inas his going to Rome . The history of Ceadwalla his going to Rome & dying there . Beda ibid. The seruour of English men tovvardes Rome in these dayes . An euidēt deduction out of the premiss●● . 10 The assertion and asseueration of diuerse Kings for preheminence of spirituall povver . Apud Harpesf●ld●● in histor . Angl. Sacul . 9. cap. 5. ex Asserte Menem . Florentino & Marianus in anno . 9●5 . Apud Alridum Retuallo s●r● de Regibus Angli● . An excellēt speach of K. Edgar to his Bishops , cōcerning reformation of the Clergie . Tvvo svvordes of S. Peter and Constantine acknovvledged by K. Edgar . Rogeri●● Houeden part 2. Annal . in vita Henries secundi . VVilliam Conquerors iudgement of this matter . Q. Eleanor anno . 1194. Blesensis epist. 146. Tertull lib. de pudiciti● cap. 17. Cyprian de Vn●ala Ecclesia . Notes for div A09061-e52590 The Conqueror began his raigne 1066. and raigned 21. yeares vnto the yere 1087. K. VVilliam boisterous , but truly Catholik . Florent . 10●6 . S●ovv . an . 20●7 . in vita Guliel . Conquestoris Boisterous actions of K. VVilliam . Ex Registro . apud Bar. in Annal. anno . 1084. Ex epist. Lanfran . apud Baro● An. 1070. The pitifull state of Englād for manners vnder the Conqueror . The desire of Lan●rank to ●●e ●id of ●his charge . Lanfrankes feare of the Conquerors ●●ough ●ature . 〈◊〉 an . 1087. ●he Con●●erours ●●ni●ent ●●each at ●●s death . Satisfaction . Stovv ibid. Greg. septimus lib. 7. epist. 1. A sharpe reprehension of Pope Gregory the 7. to the Conqueror . Ibidem . epist. 2● . The arguments of K. VVilliā against Harold . Matth. VVestmo●ast . anno . 1065. Malmesb. lib. 3. in vita Guhelme Conquest . Stovv in the life of Harold . K. VVilliam offered to stād to the Popes iudgement for his Crovvne . Lan●b●●t . in Chron. anno 1076. Deposing of Stigand and other Bishops by authority of the Pope . Malmesb. in vita Guliel . 1. In epist. Lanfranci apud Baronium in an . 1070. Lanfranke proposeth his doubts to the Pope . The palls of Englād accustomed to be taken at Rome . Sea Baron . in annal . T●m . 11. an . 1070. Malmesb. l. 3. hist. in vi● . Gui●l . Baron ●● . 1071. Stovv 〈◊〉 . 1071. A Councell gathered by the Popes cōmaundement . Stovv an 1083. Charters frō Rome confirmed by the King. Stovv in anno . 1087. ●xfra mentis de vita Gu●e●●i . The Conquerors accusation of his brother for n●●ting the Church . Stovv Ibid●m . R●g . Houeden . annal pa●● . 2. in vi● . hen● . 3. fol. 342. VVhat the peace of the church is . Tvvo svvordes the one subordinate to the other . The priuiledge of Ecclesiastical men in tēporal Courtes . Tenant● of the Church priuiledged . Diuer● other lavves . Sāctuary . Breakers of Priuiledges . Tythes . Peterpēce . The Conquerors humility tovvards his Archbishop . Nu●e●g . Re●u● Anght . l. 1. c. 1 Stovv in vit . Guliel . in sine . The Conquerours last speech of his deuotiō tovvards the Church . 7. ● . 9. ●● . Qua●●●●pedes . 19. M. Attorneyes Instance of no force . Povver vvaies by vvhich a lay man may Confer benefices . Appropriation of Benefices . Sup. cap. 6. Demon. 4. Collations of benefices , Cap. Intet , & cap. Licet , extrau . de trāslat . epise . & extrau de electione , cap. Cum in cunctis . * Extrau . de elect . cap. postquam & cap. Intet Canonicos . & cap. Scriptum est . Ex capite , qualiter extrau . de elect . Election confirmetion and consecration of a Bishop by vvhomel Extrau . de postula one prelatorum , cap. pennl . Cap. vlt. extrau . de Iure patronatus . Glossa dist●n●● . 63. cap. quāto . & extrau . de postul . prelatorum , cap. Bonae memoriae . Inuestitures desired by Princes but denyed by Popes . Bald. l. rescrip . in penul . col . in versi● . Et ideo rex Angl. ●od . de preci bus Imper. auferēdis . 32. de●●n . cap. prater 〈◊〉 , paragraph vetum , & d●stinct 96. cap Bene quidem . 1. Ioan. 2. Notes for div A09061-e58320 K. VVilliam Rufus began his raigne an . 1087. and raigned 13. yeare , to an . 1100. K. VVilliam Rufus a good King for a time . Florentius vvigorn . an . 1093. in annal . Anglis . Stovv an . 5. Guliel . Rufi . Cōmendation of S. Anselme . Malmesb. l. 4. de Guliel . 2. Florentius an . 1095. Malmesb l. 1. de g●stis Pontif. Edmerus in vita Anselm● . S. Anselm his pall brought him from Rome by the Popes Legat. S. Anselm his plaine dealing with K. Rufus VValsing i● Ypodig . Neus●ria an . 1●97 . The pitifull death of K. Rufus . K. Henry the first began his raigne an . 1100 and raigned 25 years vnto 1135. Florent , in Chron. an . 1100. The good beginning of K. Henry the first . In vita Henri●● primi . Pope Pascalis his letter to K. Henry the first . Malmesb. li. 5. annal in vit . Hen. 1. Florent 〈…〉 an . 1106. S. Anselm and the King reconciled . Prosperous successe of K. Henry vpon his amendement . Flo●ent . VV●●● . in Chron. an . 1107. Malme●b . in ●it . Hen. 1. l. 3. Hovv K. Henry of cōscience resigned inuestitures . Houeden . part . 1. a●nal . fol. 272. The meeting of K. Henry and Pope Castus at Gesòrse in Normādy . Mal. lib. 5. annal . in vita Henr. 1. Polid. virgil . l. de inuento●ib . Retū . Gratian disti●● . 65. cap. 22. Adrian Sigebert in Cron anno . 1111. Baron in annal . an . 774. The beginning of inuestitures by secular Princes . The vse of Inuestitures graunted only by the Se● Apostolicke . Malmesb. l. 5. hist. in vit . ●en . ● . fol. 94. A consideration of much moment . Florent in ●●on . 〈◊〉 ●11 . & 1213. Diuers proofes of K Henry acknovvledging the Popes Supremacy . The Charter of Hen. I founder of the Abbey of Reading in the 26. yeare of his raigne and an Dom. 1125. VVeake and impertinent proofe . Founders had authority to giue Charters . Supra cap. ● . This in●●●nce of ●o valevv . Supra Ibid. K. Stephen began his raigne an . ●●35 . and held it 1● . yeres and more , vntill ●●54 . Vncertainty of humane designement● . Malmesb. in Stephene . Malmesb. l. 1. Hist. Nouell . Malmesb. Ibid. The oath of K. Stephen for the libertyes of the Church . Malmesb. Ibid lib. 1. Nouell . Inconstancy of King Stephen by euill coūsailors . A violent act of K. Stephen . Malmesb. Ibidem . The K. cited to appeare before the Bishopps . The kings plea by his Attourney before the Bishops . K. Stephen grāted an appeale to Rome but doubteth the same . Differēce betvvixt K. Stephens Attourney and ours . Ibidem . Florent . an . 11●9 . VValsingh . in ●pod●g . Neustriae , an . 1142. VVilliam Archb. of York the Kings nephevv depriued by the Sea Apostolick . Nuberg . l. 1. hist. caep . 1● . & 26. Pol●d . l. 12. hist. versus finen● . Be●●ard . epist . ●●4 . & 235 & 237 238. 139. & 251. Notes for div A09061-e64130 This King raigned from the yeare 1154. vnto 1189. vvhich vvas 35. years . K. Henry his temporall greatnes . Nubergens . l. 3. c. 25. The same handleth much more largely Petrus Bles●●sis , Archdeacō of Bath , that vvas his latin Secretary many years . epist. 47. K Henry punished in that vvherin he tooke most delight . Rhetemag & Lexomen epist and Henr. 2 ep●●t 253. apud Ble●●●s . ●ct . Blese● epis●●la 164. Excōmunication threatned to the Queene . Stovv in v●● . Henr. 2. Nuberg . l. 3. 6. 25. K. Henry his lamētable end . His vertues . Lavves attempted by King Henry against the Church . K. Henry vehement contentiō to haue these lavves take place . 〈◊〉 . port . 2. A●nal . in ●● . 1164. K. Henry the secōd made Legate of the Pope . K. Henry his humility to the 〈◊〉 Apostolick . K. Henry himselfe appealeth to the Pope . Houed . part 2. annal . in v●● . H. 2. K. Henry appealeth the secōd time . K Henry commeth from Ireland to appeare before the Popes Legates . Pet. Bloson . Epist. 136. The purgation & absolutiō of King Henry . A circumstance notably cōmending the true obedience of K. Henry to the Church of Rome . Pet. ●●esen . ●pistola 136. A letter of K Henry the secōd to the Pope vvritten in great affliction . Stovv a● . 1160. K. Henry founded al his state vpon the Popes authority . Houed . in vi● . Hon. 2. VValsing . in Ypod●g●● . noustr . an . 1177. Di●erse things done by authoritye of the Pope in England . The straites vvhervnto King Henry vvas driuen . VVasing in Ypodig . 〈◊〉 an . 11●4 . K. Henry strangely deliuered . The earnest and ● syncere penaunce● of King Henry . The vvonderfull successes of K. Hen. vpon his penance . See Nuberg . l. 2. hist. ● . 25. & 33. & ● Blesensi● epist. 153. This King raigned from the yere 11●9 . vntil 1199. that is 10. yeres . Misfortunes of K. Richard. King Richard deuout and obedient to the Church of Rome . See Blesen . epist. 64. ad Celest. PP . Reg. Ho●ed . part . 2. Annal. in vit . Rich. 2. King Richards behauiour & oath at his coronation . King Richard goeth to Ierusalem by the Popes procurement . The Kingdom commended to the Popes protectiō . See Houed . and math . Paris anno . 1190. Houed . i● vit . Rich. 1. fol. 375. Diuers Appellations from the King to the Pope . Houed . Ibid. fol. 376. King Richard sent his mother to Rome to entreate the Pope . Houed . part 2. An. pag. 392. Houeden . Ibid. fol. 326. King Richardes letter to P. Clement the 3. Pope Celestines letter to the Realme of England . The Bishop of Ely fauored & defended by the Pope and the King. Nubergens . reiū Angl. l. 4. cap. 17. Geffrey the kinges brother by authority of the P. made Archbishop of Yorke . Nubergens . Ibidem . cap. 25. King Richards fortunes letted by his brothers ambition , & enuy of the K of France . King Richards captiuity in Austria . See Pet. Blesen epest . 144. ad Celest. PP . Q Eleanores cōplaints vnto Pope Celestinus . ●les . epist. 145. Q. Eleanora her petition to Pope Celestinus . Ibid. epist. 146. Matt. 16. Epist. 6● . ad Celest. ●P . The speach of the Archbishop of Reane in K. Richards behalfe cōcerning S. Peters povver . Sap. ●●p . 6. 〈◊〉 10. A manifest inference vpō the premises against M Attorney . Hou●d in vt . R●●● . 1. fol. 445. Hovv small and little spirituall iurisdiction King Richard pretended . Paris . i● vit . Rich. 8. Hunting and hauking reproued by the Pope in our English Bishops . ●●u●d . in vita Ru●ar . 1. fol. 428. Ibid. fol. 176. Geffrey restored to his Bishopricke by Pope Innocentius . Disgust & appeale of the Archb. of Roane against K. Richard. This King began his raigne an . 1199. and raigned 18. yeres vnto an . 1216. Variablenes of K. Iohn . The pretences of the Dolphin of France to England . K. Iohns obeyng , the Sea Apostolick . Houed . 2. part . Annal. fol. 458. K. Iohn pretended no supremacy Ecclesiasticall . A councel h●ld against the kings prohibition . Houed . in vi● . Ioan. fol. 461. The piety of K. Iohn in the beginning of his raigne . K. Iohne humility and liberalitye . K. Io●ns mutation to the vvorse . See vvalsing . in ●pedig anno . 1204. and Math. Paris anno . 2215. The first occasiō of K. Iohns breach vvith the Church & churchmen . Great offence and indignation of K. Iohn against Clergie men . Houed . Ibid. Many vvish that Pope Innocentius had dealt more myldly vvith K. Iohn . Extreme acts of K. Iohn in his indignation . Paris . in vit . Ioan. an . 1210. Paris . Ibid. an . 1212. Math Paris Ibid Paris anno . 1213. in vit . Ioan. King Iohn offered subiection to the K. of the Moores . The strāge cōtrariety of King Iohn . The aydea that King Iohn receaued from P. Innocentius . The church-liberties confirmed by K. Iohn and the Pope . Paris . an . a● 15. See Fox & his pageants of the toade skinned to prepare the poisō , vvith other circūstances pag. 133. of his Acts and monuments . All anciēt English lavves against M. Attorney . Notes for div A09061-e74590 K. Henry the third began his raigne 1216 and dyed anno . 1●7● . hauing 56. yeres . The coronation & beginning of King Henry the third . Math. Paris in vit . Hen. 3. an . 1216. Temporal homage done to the Sea Apostolick by King Henry the third . Bles epist. 136. ad Alex. PP . Vvalsing●m in 〈◊〉 Nous●ria anno . 1245. Ibidem . K. Henry obtaineth of the P. to be accompted of ful age . Paris in 〈◊〉 Hen. 3. an . 122● . The beginning of the great Charter for church priuiledges . VValsingh . in vi●a Edvvards prim●● initi● . E●ypodig . N●u 〈◊〉 an . 1274. The deuout behauiour of K. Henry 3. Conferēce betvvene K. Henry aud S. Levves K. of France . Paris anno . 12●4 in vst . Hen. 3. The vtilities by our English Kinges deuotion to Rome . Paris Ibid. The Ciuil vvarrs of England vnder K. Henry the third . The points vvherin the soueraignty of the Sea of Rome vvas seene . The manner of Ecclesiastical elections vnder K. Henry 3. The manner of placing a Bishop of Durham . Paris in vit . Henr. 3. an . 1226. 1228. An other example of the prouision of the Church of Canterbury . Ibidem . Richard of Canterbury appealeth to Rome against K. Henry . 3. Paris an . 1231. in vit . Henr. 3. Tvvo elected Archbishops of Canterbury refused by the Pope . Paris anno . 1232. Hovv obedient K. Henry vvas to the Sea of Rome . Cōplaints of English-men against strāgers● in England . Math. Paris . anno . 1244. The louing and obedient letter of K. Henry vnto Pope Innocentius . Cōplaints made to the Councell and Pope himselfe of abuses . Paris anno . 1245. The popes seuerall orders for prouiding for Englishmen . Generall consent of vv●●ting to the Sea of Rome for remedye of agrieuāces . Math. Paris . Anno. 1146. The beginning & originall cause of al restraints . Mag. C●art . cap. 1. The statutes of K. Henry all in fauour of the Clergye . 2. H. 3. tit . Prohibitiō 13. 4. H. 3. Ibidem . 15. 15. H. 3. tit . Prohibitiō 22. Regist. fol. The explication of the lavv . Stat. an . 9. 〈◊〉 . 6. cap. 11. Spirituall co●●tes superior to the tēporall . Hovv spirituall Courtes are the Kings courtes . M. Attorneys inference hovv it holdeth and holdeth not . Diuers examples ouerthrovving M. Attorneys commentarye . Paris anno . 1●32 . The King obeyed the Bishop of London in restoring Earle Hubert . Paris . Ibid. K Henry obeyed the B. of London in spirituall matters . The Bishops refuse to excommunicate at the Kings appointment . Paris . anno . 1234. S. Edmōd Archb. of Canterbury threatneth excōmunication to the King if he obey him not . Paris anno . 1215. pag. 656. K. Henry obeyed the Deane of Paules in spirituall authority . The Statute of Merton . an . 20. Hen. 3. This instance proueth nothing . See the Code l. 5. tit . 27. log . 1. Constant & lib. 5. Imper. Ze 1. & lib. 10. Imper. Iustin. & Nouell . constit . 89. de natural . liberis . §. Siquis igitur . &c. Lib. 4. Decret . tit . 17. cap. 6. * Cap. Cōquestus est . * Cap. 13. Per venerabilem . Ilidom . Cap. 7. Causam quae . M. Attorney mistaketh and mis-relateth the matter . Notes for div A09061-e80090 This King began his raigne an . 1272. and raigned 35. yeares vntill 1307. Stovv in vita Edouards pr●●● . King Edvvard surnamed Long-shanke . Deuotion of K. Edvvard . Magna Charta . VValsingam in vitae Edvvards p. anno . 1191. King Edvvard praied and gaue almes for his Queenes soule . Crosses erected . VVorkes of piety of King ●dvvard . VVestmon . in he● . or maiori in vita Edou . primi . Vestmonasteriensis anne 1197. A pious & patheticall speach of King Edvvard . King Edvvardes occasions of dealing in VVales and Scotland . VValsingam anno . 1292. in vita Edouards . King Edvvardes mutabilitie in keeping priuiledges . Math. Vestmonast . & VValsingam anno . 1307. Math. Vestmon . an . 1278. Violent proceeding of K. Edvvard . A sleight of K. Edvvard against the Clergie . In anno . 1294. A Knight sent to force the Monkes of VVestminster to yelde by feare to the Kings vvill . In meere spirituall things the King neuer made difficulty to obey the Sea of Rome . VValsingam . eodem anno . Diuers Bishopricks disposed of by Popes vnder K. Edvvard the first . King Edvvardes deuotion tovvards the first Pope in Auinion . King Edvvard accused the Archb. of Canterbury vnto the Pope . VVestmonast . eodem anno . The great respect borne to the Sea of Rome by King Edvvarde . An Embassadge sent by K. Edvvard to excuse himselfe to the Pope . Thomas VValsingam . in an . 1308. The manner of vvriting of K Edvvard and his nobility to P. Bonifacius . Math Vestmonaster . & Thom. Valsing in an . 1301. & 1302. King Edvvards lavves in preiudice of the Clergy of England . Vide 3 Edo . 5. ●● . Ass pl. 19. Brooke tit . premunire pl. 10. Note this vvas vva ●y the common-lavv of England before any statute made . Cōmon-lavv must haue some birth or beginning VVestmonasteriensis an . 1197. A cleere ouerthrovv of M. Attorneys assertion . In vvhat sense the publishing of a Bul might be punished in K. Edvvards dayes . Reportis fol. 15. 31. 〈◊〉 ● . tit . ●●com . 6. ● instance 15. Edouar . tit . Quare non admisit . 7. Vide 39. Edou . 3. 20. Note . 1. ansvvere . Cōmon-lavves imagined but not extant . Anno ● . Edouards ter●●i stat . 2. cap. 2. Seasing of Bishops landes . Anno. 14. Edo . 3. stat . 3. pro Clero . Hovv Bishops might be punished for not admitting the Kings iust presentatiō . Supra cap. praeced . The Archbishop of Canterbury depriued of his spiritual iurisdiction by Q Elizabeth : anno . 1580. The statu●e of 〈…〉 an 〈…〉 vnderstoode & in vvhat sen● should ●e receiued & allou●ed h●ere . Lib. 1. Decretalium Gregorie . tit . 21. The Decree against Bigamy . In 6 Decre alium ●●● tit . de Bigamis . The true state of the case and doubt risen in England . A poore commentary and shifte of M. Attorney . Hovv M. Attorney straineth the ●ext to helpe himself . 4 instance . Statutum de anno . 25. Edou● . 1. Carlile . vide 20. Edouar . 3. tit . Essom . 24. Nota. The first attēpte vvas to vsurpe vpon such Ecclesiasticall things as appertayned to the Clergy of England , vvho at that tyme stood in great avve of the church of Rome . The ansvvere to the fourth Instance of M Attorney . Incōueniences by promoting strangers in England . Diuers agreemēts for prouision of Benefices . VVest monast . anno . 1307. Remedy sought from the Pope himselfe . VValsing . Ibidem . See statute anno . 25. Edouards . 3. The statute of Carleile maketh nothing for M. Attourney . This King began his raigne an . 1307. and raigned 19. yeres to vvitt , vntill 1326. Ancient English vvriters vvhen the end . VValsing , in 〈◊〉 . 1307. Stovv in Edouardo p. ●●●ine vita . The ill successe of King Edvvardes marriage ●n France . The suppression of the Knights of the Temple . VValsi●gam in . storia Ed●u●r● 2. anno 1311. & 1●24 . ●o●dor & Stovv Ibidem . Recourse made to the Pope by Englād and Scotland in their greatest controuersies VValsing . anno . 1319. & 1323. The ● . of Canterbury made by the Popes prouision . The Bishop of Hereford taken frō the barre by Ecclesiasticall authority . The statute of Edvv. 2. articuli ●l●●i cap. 36. Eos the ordinance of circumspecté agatis ●do . 1. so this effect . ●y this statute of the ● . of Ed. 2. and 15. of Edvv. 3. cap. 6. 31. E. 3. cap. 11. and by other statutes heretofore mentioned ; the iurisdiction of the Ecclesiasticall courtes i● allovved & vvarranted by consent of Parlament in all cases , vvherein they novv haue iurisdiction , so as these lavves may be iustly called the Kings Ecclesiasticall lavves , or the Ecclesiasticall lavves of England . Statut. de Consult . editum an . 24. E. 1. The explication & true meaning of the former prouision . 〈…〉 ●●d●●ations 〈◊〉 anno . 5. Edouardi . 2. 〈◊〉 18. 〈◊〉 . ● . cap. 5. Different Courtes shevv different origen of authorityes . M. Attorneys common refuge refuted . Notes for div A09061-e88090 These 2. Kings made most restraints . The punishment of these tvvo Princes and their posterity for their violence vsed tovvards the church Particular motiues of K. Edvvard 3. for proceeding as he had . VValsingam in vit . Ed. 1. anno . ●341 . The Kings letter to Pope Clement the sixt . The complaint & reasons against prouisions frō Rome . * Sup. 35. ● . ● . VValsingam 〈◊〉 vita Edouards . 3. The humble supplication of King Edvvard to the Pope before he made his restrictiōs King Edvvardes great embassage vnto the Pope . King Edvvards protestation of obedience for himself and his . The contin●ance of the Popes pro●●●●● in England . VValsing in vita Ed ● . an . 1366. Diuers other examples . The lavve of premunire . Polidor . hist. Angl. lib. 19. A concordate betvvene the Pope and K. Edvv. for prouisions . Supra . cap. ● . ● . 4. 1. instance 16 ● . 3. 〈◊〉 excom . 4. 1. Ansvvere . VValsing . in vita Edou . 3. anno . 1340. ● instance . In the Raigne of Ed. 3. ● Ansvvere . Snpr● . fol 9. The common lavv cannot determine vvho shall giue cure of benefices vvith spirituall authority belonging therevnto . This instance maketh against M. Attorney himselfe . 3. Instance 17. ● . 3. 23. 20. E 3. en●o●●● 9.16 . E. 3 tit . b●●u . 66. 21 E. 3.6 ● . H. 7. 14. F●●z . Na. br . 2. Ed. 3. ●●t . excom 6. 21 E. 3. 4. fol. 4. 23. E 3. l. Ass pl. 75. 27. Ed. 3. fol 84. Fitz Na. Br. fol. 34. The Ansvvere to the first & second 26. 〈◊〉 . King Ed●vard did not giue Episcopal iurisdictiō Supra cap. 2. & 3. The saying of the Emp. Valentin . Supra cap. 4. Supra cap. 6. To the 4. Trifling obiectiōs . To the 5. To the sixth Supra cap. 7. M. Attorneys case plaine against himself . The 4. Instance . 30. E. 3. l. ass . pl. 19. 32. H. 4. 16 14 H. 4. 14. 8. H. 6. fol. 3. 35. H. 6. 42. 28 H 6. 1. 7. Ed. 36 14. 11. E. 4. 16 Fitz. Na. Br. fol. 64 E. vide 9. E. 4. fol. 3. hereafter fol. 11. It ought to be determined in the Ecclesiastical Courtes of Englād . 21. E. 3. tit . exco● 6. 31 ● . 3. tit . Ayde de Roy 103. The Ansvvere . Bulls from Rome not admitted except they come certifyed frō some Prelate at home . S●● Sup. cap. 7. Kings are capable of ecclesiasticall iurisdiction by commission . The ● . Instance . 38. ass . pl. 30. See the stat . of 15. E. t. c. 4. 31. E. ● . c. 11. 38. Ass. pl. 22. 46. E. ● . tit . pramunure . 6. 49. E. 3. l. Ass. pl. 8. The Ansvvere . Some things may belōg to differēt courtes in different respects . Supra in 〈◊〉 . ● . VVhy the Abbot of VValtam vvas seuerely punished . The ● . Instance . The summe of the first restraint about Prouisions . Stat. 25. E. 3. de prouisoribus . The Ansvvere . Agreemēt betvvene the King and Pope about prouisiōs . VValsing . in vita 〈◊〉 . an . 1371. See S. Bernard a● 〈◊〉 , ●l . 2. de Consideracione ad Eugeni●● . Of the reasons & manner of cōcluding these restraints by K. E. the 3. King Edvvards restraints diminished not his devv respect to the church An. 2● . E. 3. ●tat . 3. Stat. ● . cap. 1. 42. E. 3. ● . 1. The disordinate life of K. Edvvard the third . VValsing . in vita Edouardi 3. an . 1340. This King raigned 12 years frō 1377. to 1399. The causes of K. Richardes disorders . King Richard often confirmed the libertyes of the church . The practice of Church-libertyes by Clergy-men vnder K. Richard the second . Respect borne by King Richard to the true Pope . 2. Rich. 2. cap. 7. King Richard obeyed the Censures of the Church . VValsing . an . 1379. M. Attorneys Instance out of this K. Raigne . The crovvne of Englād not subiect to any in temporalityes . In vvhat sense the Bishop yelded to the statute of Premunire . Notes for div A09061-e94640 K. Henr. 4. raigned 13. yeares , from 1399. to 1412. Stovv in Kent . 4. H. ● . raigned ten years from 1412. to 1422. Richard Earle of Cambridg Henry lord Scroope treasurer . Edmond Earle of March &c. H. 6. raigned 18 yeres from 1422. to 146● . Polidor . lib. 12. Hist. Aug● . in Hen. 6. VValsing . in vita Henriei 4. an . 1490. English Prelates sent to the Councell of Cōstance . Lavves for executing of Lollard and vvicklifists . First Instance . 2. H. 4. fol. 9. The Ansvvere . Hovv Bishops may be called the Kings spirituall Iudges . Supra cap. ● . 2 Instance Fitz. Nat. 〈◊〉 . 269. This had a resemblance to an . Attainder of treason , ●herin there must be first an ind4ctment by one Iurie and a conuiction ●y an●ther . 11. H. 4. 37. The Ans●●re . Tvvo condemnation not euer necessary in case of h●resy . M. Attorneys marginal note reproued . In Cod. l. Manicheos l. Arriani l. Quicunque & apud Paul. Diacon . l. 14. & 16. * See cap. ad abolendum , & cap. excōmunicamus extra . de haeret . & in 6. de heret . cap. Super co . 6. Dec●et . l 5. 〈◊〉 . 2. de liçreticis . An. 1227. Decree of Pope Gregory the nynth about proceeding against heretickes . Causa . 15. q. 7. c. Si quia tumidus . ex con . 1. Carthag . Hovv the Pope in old time might alter English lavves . 3 Instance 1. H. 4. fol. 69. 76. 14. H. 4. f. 14. vide 20. E. 3. l. ass pl. 19. before vide 13. E. 3. Certificat . 6. vide 20. H. 6. 1. 35. H. 6. 42. 7. E. 14. Fitz. Na. Br. 46. ff . 14. H. 4. 14. Statut. de 2. H. 4. cap. 3. Ansvvere to the first . To the second . VVhence Bishops courtes haue their authority . * R●portes fol. 8. & 9. To the third . The King may commaund the Bishop to doe his duty . 4 To the fourth . 4 Instance . Stat. 6. H. 4. 1. The Ansvvere . Against brybing in Rome and other like abuses . The first insta●ce of the Attorney . Stat. de 3. H. 5 cap. 4. The Ansvvere . This statute maketh nothing for M. Attorney . Statut. de 2. H. 5. ● . 7. L●llardy a ●olio . For as Cock●e is the 〈◊〉 of the Corne , so is heresie the destruction of true religion . Statut. de 2. H. 5. c. 1. The Ansvvere . VVhy tēporall Iustices medled vvith Lollards . VValsing . in vita He●ri●s 5. VVhence the name of Lollards vvas taken . The three conuersions of Englād . part . 2. ●ap . 9. nu . 31. & cap. 19. num . 34. 35. &c. For in his booke , of Acts and monuments pag. 419. ● . H. 6 fol. ● . 9 H. 6. fol. 16. 1 H. 6. 1● . To the first . Bull● could not be promulgated vvithout the certificate of a Bishop . To the second . See Supra cap. 6. 3 to the third . Notes for div A09061-e99140 K. Ed. 4. raigned .12 . yeres , from 1460. to 1483. Syr Thom. More in ●it . Richards .2 . 〈◊〉 ● . Richard 3. raigned from 14●3 . to 1485. K Henry the seuēth raigned from 1485. to 1509. to vvit 24. yeres . All fovver Princes agree in our controuersy . The first proofe . The secōd proofe . Fox in his acts and Monuments . The third proofe . Foxie vita Edonar .4 . ●uhar . 3. & Honrisi 7. The fourth proofe . Polidor . in vita Hen. 7. The first instance .1 . H. 7.20 . The ansvvere . Hovv the cause of Sanctuary might be handled by temporall Iudges . The secōd Instance 9. E. 4 ● . vid● Fuz . Na. Br. fol. 44. H. agreeing heervvith . Note The Ansvvere . The third Instance . 9 E. 4.28 . The ansvvere . VV●o must iudge vvhether a fellon deserue the benefit of Clergie . The 4 Instance . 12. E 4. fol. 16. The ansvvere . S●a 16. Rich. 2. cap. 5. Hovv the Popes excommunication had place or not place in England vnder K. Ed. the 4. 2. Rich. 3. fo● . 22. VVhy Catholick Kings somtymes prohibited the entrance of the Popes Legates . The fifth Instance . 1. Henr. 7.10 . St●tut . de 1. H. 7. c. 4. 10. H. 7. 18. 11. H. 7. 12 The Ansvvere . To the first point . To the secōd point . The great authority of English Prelates . To the thirde point . Hovv a King is persona mixta . Supra● cap. 4. Supra cap. 2. To the fourth point . Bastardy a lett to priesthoode . * Dist. 56. cap. 1. &c. 1. & vl● . de filijs presby & 6. Decret . tit . 11. cap. 1. Supra . ● 2. VVho can dispense vvith plurality of benefices . K. Henry the 7 dyed and liued in the religion of all his ancestours . Notes for div A09061-e102070 The causes of alteratiō in the time of K. Henry the 8. Supra . 6. 2. & 3. K. Henry the 8. raigned from the yere 1509. to 1546. to vvit 3● . yeares . K. Henries booke against Luther . anno Domini 1521. Henr. 8. in defens . Sacram . contr . Mart. Luther . Henr. ibid. K. Henryes argument of antiquity and consent of the Popes supremacy K. Henries argument of impossibility . 1. Cor. 13. K. Henryes innectiue against the incōstancy of Luther . An. 1527. Good offices of K. Henry cōtinued to the Pope after the vvriting of his booke . By vvhat degrees K. Henry fell to breach vvith the Sea of Rome . The first breach with Rome . Reports fol. 28. Stat. de . 2● . H. 8. All committed to the body of the English Clergy . All committed to the Archb. of Canterbury . K. Henry subiected himselfe to the Archb . of Canterbury . The gradation vsed by K. Henry is assuning the supremacy . A confideration of importance . Caluin . cōment . in cap. 6. Amos . K. Henry as supreme head condemned the Protestāts religion for heresy . See statut . an . 31. H. ● . cap. 14. VVith vvhat mature deliberation K. Henry as head of the church condemned the Protestāts . An. 1540. An. 1546. The headship of K. Henry fitteth not M. Attorney . A doubte moued by M. Attorney and sl●nderly ansvvered . Reportes fol. 32. This appeareth by the resolution of all the Iudges in 7. H. ● lib. Keylvv . ●o . 18. And this vvas longe before any ●ct of 〈◊〉 vvas made against forra●ne Iurisdiction ●● K. Henry 8. Ecclesiasticall lavves made subiect to euery particular mans calumniation . A great vntruth that Clerkes vvere not exempted from temporall Iudges . VVestmon . 1. cap. 2. an . 3. Ed. ● . Tvvo instances against M. Attorney vnder K. Edvvard the first . Statut. de bigamis cap. 5. an . 4. Ed. 1. Articuli Cleri cap. 15. an . 9. Ed. ● . 18. Ed. 3. pro Cler. cap. 2. & 25. F. 3. pro Clero cap. 4. & 5. & 4. H. 4. cap 2. Harp●s●l ex Ar●h●●● Cantuar. sae●ul . ●5 . cap. 9. in vita Thomae Arundellij . Gaston chief Iustice refuted to sit in iudgement vpō an Archbishop . Paris an . 1234. sub . Henr. 3. Clerkes deliuered from secular Iudges in King Henry the third his time . Idem . An. 1239. VValsing . in vita Edouardi tertij an . 1344. King Edvvard the sixt raigned six yeares frō 1547. vnto 1553. See statut . an . 1. & 2. Edouardi sexts . Supra Cap. 3. Spirituall iurisdictiō could not be deriued from the child-king Galat. 4. An eu●siō refuted . Different origens of tēporall and spirituall anthority . * See Supra cap. 2. & 3. a Stat. 1. Ed. 6. cap. 1. b Stat. 2 & 3. Ed. 6 & 5. & 6. cap. 1. c Stat. 1. Ed 6. cap. 11 & 12. d St●t . 2. & 3. Ed. 6. cap 23. e ●tat . 7. Ed 6. cap. 2. Queene Mary raigned six yeares from 1553. to 15●● . Queene Mary restored all to the ancient vse againe . Thomas Cranmer the first hereticall Archb. of Canterbury . Q. Elizab. raigned 45. yeres from 1558. vnto 1603. VVhat moued Q. Elizabeth to make a nevv change . Pope Clement 7. & Paulu● ● . Crafty dealing to moue the Queene to accept of the supremacy . Adulatory speeches for imbarking the Queene . The speach of Lady Eli●●● vvi●● 〈◊〉 of Q. Maries 〈◊〉 Coūsellours . * Syr ● an●●●nglese●d . The Duke of Fer●● his letter to bee seen in the K. of Spaine● 〈…〉 A●●hiuiū ●●●hetov●n● of Ciman●a● . Doct. Harding in his epistle to the Queene . an , 1565. An other protestation of Q. Elizabeth about the Reall presence . Q. Elizab. conferēce vvith Mōsieur Lansack . * To the old L. Mōt●gue . The Earle of Southampton and others . Q. Elizab. ovvne inclination tovvards Catholick religion . D. Harding vbi supra . Q. Elizab. dravvne to great extremityes against her Catholicke people . Notes for div A09061-e108040 M. Attorneyes iniurious conclusiō● . A false ●harge of ●he Attorney . See the booke of Dangerous Positions l. 2. c. 2. imprinted at London an . 1191. Ibid. l. 3. a. 1. The first recusancy of Puritanes . Ho● many Catholicks vvere Recusants from the beginning See the booke intituled Reasōs of Refusall . Consider vvell this reason . Reportes ●ol . 37. False and Iniurious calumniations . fol. 3● . Manifest slaunderous vntruthes . fol. 39. The protestations M. Campian . Shervvyn and others at theire deathes . M. Attorneys Idaea Plat●nica of ancient Cōmon-lavves . A scruple ●f con●●iēce vr●●d vpon ● Attor●ey . Vntrue informations of M. Attorney vnto his Maiesty . August . in Enchiridio c. 67. 68. & 69. Lib. de fide & operibus c. 14. 15. 16. & Lib. 21. de Ciuit. De● . c. 21. & in psal . 80. & alibi . Supra in Praefat. False causes deuised of Catholicks constancy . Only conscience stayeth Catholicks from follovving M. Attorneys current . Luc. 12. Rom. 2. Eus●b . l. 1. c. 11. histo . Eccles. The iudgment of Constantius touching such as dissembled in religion . Some points of consideration . * The booke of three cōuersions . An important deliberation . Rom. 2. No substātiall reason can be alleadged vvhy vve should rather be of one religion then of an other . The definition of heretickes . No groūd or stay in sects or nevv opinions . * August . contra Epistolam Fūdom . cap● 4. Cyrill Ca●ech . 1● . Hovve great and grieuous the sinne of heresye is . ● . Thom. ●2 . q. 10. ●● . 6. Tit. 4. In the beginning of both the Examens of Fox his Calendar . D. Thom. 22. quast . 5. art . 3. A similitude to be vveighed and considered . Athanas. in Symbol● . August . lib. ●●●●●esi u● 〈◊〉 Quod. 〈◊〉 Deum ● seuere ●●ntence 〈◊〉 Augustine a●●●lt the 〈◊〉 heresies that ●ay be . The perils that arise by the insolency of some priuate men . Men brought into despaire forget all reason and duty . The exul●●ration 〈◊〉 M. Attorneys booke . A pro●●ise not ●●●forma●le . 3. Regu● . 12. Isa. 13. The daūger and damage of disperso● The finall Conclusion of the vvhole .