Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire. Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1623 Approx. 140 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 33 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2009-03 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A73011 STC 1956.3 ESTC S123041 99900480 99900480 173372 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A73011) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 173372) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 2037:11) Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire. Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. [8], 56 p. imprinted by Felix Kyngston, and are to be sold by Edmund Weauer, at his shop, at the great North-doore of Pauls, London : 1623. Signatures: A-H⁴. First leaf is blank. In this edition B1r line 2 of text ends "an in-"; D3r line 10 is "culars." Parts of quires F-H are reimposed from STC 1956. 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Protestantism -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800. 2008-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2008-01 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-02 Pip Willcox Sampled and proofread 2008-02 Pip Willcox Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Looke beyond Luther : OR AN ANSWERE TO THAT QVESTION , SO OFTEN AND SO INSVLTINGLY PROPOSED BY our Aduersaries , asking vs ; Where this our Religion was before Luthers time ? WHERETO ARE ADDED SOVND PROPS TO BEARE vp honest-hearted Protestants , that they fall not from their sauing-faith . BY RICHARD BERNARD , OF Batcombe in Sommersetshire . LONDON , Imprinted by Felix Kyngston , and are to be sold by Edmund Weauer , at his shop , at the great North-doore of Pauls . 1623. TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFVLL , Sir WALTER ERLE , Sir CLEMENT COTTEREL , KNIGHTS : And to their vertuous Ladies , euersoundnesse of Faith , with the power of Religion and constancie , in both most heartie wished . Right Worshipfull , I Should maruell to see any once professing the truth , to turne from the light vnto darkenes , from the true Worship and Religion of Christ , to the superstition and idolatrie of Antichrist , but that I read , that our first Parents beleeued Satan before God ; that men loue darkenesse more then the light , and that fornot louing the truth , and delighting in vnrighteousnesse , God giueth such ouer to beleeue lyes , that they may bee damned . Could it else otherwise be , that so many in this so cleare light of Gods Gospel , should fall away ? What haue our aduersaries now more to pleade for their cause , then heretofore they haue had ? What can they now say , which is not alreadie fully answered by our learned men ? They put out indeed new bookes , new in regard of the writing and printing ; but the reasons one and the same in older written and printed bookes : this is in shew a putting of more strength , to vphold their ruinous building , but not in substance : yet thus they beguile the simple and vnstable-minded . By many waies they seeke to deceiue , and beguile people , but especially by accusing our Religion of falshood and nouelty , and affirming theirs to bee the true and most ancient faith : in both which they speake very vntruely . For touching this their present Religion ( as it differeth from ours , and as it is Popery ) it is but a new vpstart Religion , a patcherie of Iudaisme , Paganisme and Heresie ; a Religion deuised by men , and not hauing God for the Author : How farre our Religion is from falshood and noueltie , I haue here indeuoured to shew , answering to that question so often propounded , Where it was before Luthers time ? If any of our aduersaries , or all of them together , dare to goe plainely to worke , ( for hitherto they haue not ) and first set downe ours and their accord , wherein , and how farre we and they in euery thing doe agree , to cut off hereby all needlesse strife and contentions . Secondly , then truely and faithfully without equiuocall termes , to deliuer their distinct differences from vs , that so euery one may rightly discerne , whereabout we do contend , and what indeede their now present Religion is , which we call Popery , bing seuered from our common agreement . Thirdly , to bring these their differences to the due triall of Scriptures , the common principles of Christianitie , and the true writings of the ancient Fathers in the first Ages ; then will it clearely appeare to euery one of indifferent iudgement , whether ours or theirs be the true Religion , and whether ours or theirs be the false Church . In the meane space , till they proceede thus vprightly and sincerely , I hope , no Protestant in earnest , will be insnared and catched by their deceites . Let such as in the plentifull meanes of knowledge wilfully liue in ignorance , or hauing knowledge , liue lewdly , without feare of God , loue of truth , and power of Religion , be the prey for craftie Foxes : for these be the fittest subiects for them to worke vpon ; and these only preuaile they with , receiuing a iust punishment for their contempt of sauing knowledge , or for their consciencelesse liuing contrary to their knowledge . For there is no man of right vnderstanding , and that makes conscience of his waies , louing the truth , walking humbly before his God , being acquainted with Gods Word , and praying for Gods direction , that God either will giue ouer , or that can in reason submit vnto this false Antichristian Church , if he doe but seriously consider of such things , as will worke , if not an absolute condemnation , yet a most iust suspition of her to be naught ; as first , the vilifying of holy Scriptures , locking them vp from the common people , as if Gods Word were infectious . Secondly , her thrusting vpon the people her feigned traditions , all besides , and many of them against Scripture . Thirdly , the absurd and vnreasonablenesse of their Latine Seruice , which the people vnderstand not . Fourthly , their idolatrous praying to Saints , worshipping stockes and stones , and reliques of the dead . Fifthly , their grosse conceit of Christs corporall presence in the Sacrament . Sixthly , the feigned miracles , and notable coozenages therin , found out here , and in other Countries ; the boasting of them a farre off , but not able to worke the like among vs. Seuenthly , the shamelesse & grosse belying of our doctrine , and slandring the liues of our learned men , as Luther , Caluin , Beza , and others . Eighthly , the citing in defence of their Religion , counterfeit Authors , so knowne to be , and so condemned to be by the learned on their owne side . Ninthly , the not permitting freely our bookes among them , as wee doe theirs among vs. Tenthly , the tying of the people to the Priests lippes , and not permitting them to trie their doctrine , as we doe . The vniust curses , dissembling practices , and mercilesse cruelties vsed to vphold their Religion , swearing & for swearing , by equiuocations , ment all reseruations , and Popes dispensations , massacres , and powder-plots , and bloodie persecutions . Twelfthly , The auoyding of a free generall Councell , to heare and determine our differences . Who is he that shall consider of these things with iudgement , but will suspect this Romish Church to be none of Christs Church , if withal he adde hereto the consideration of the differences betweene the wisedome below ( by which that seate is guided ) which is earthly , naturall , sensuall , & deuilish , and the wisdom from aboue ( by which Christs Church is guided ) which is pure , peaceable , gentle , easie to be intreated , full of mercy , and good fruits , without partiality , and without hypocrisie , as Saint Iames writeth ? I doubt not but that you haue already considered of these premisses , and that you are resolued , that this is the true . Religion , and the good way , wherein you walke , euen the ancient , Catholike and Apostolike veritie , grounded vpon Scripture , and the principles of Christianitie , taught by the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church , and confirmed by the blood of blessed Martyrs . My desire is , that God would continue your loue , with encrease of zeale towards the same more and more . To this purpose are these my endeuors , which I present vnto you , praying your fauourable acceptance of my good meaning , and hearty wel-wishes , and worthie respect vnto your selues , and to all that wish well to Sion , and pray for the peace of Ierusalem : God let them , and you with yours , to prosper which loue it . Amen . Your Worships in all Christian seruices to be commanded , Richard Bernard . Batcombe , Sept. 26. Looke beyond Luther : OR AN ANSWERE TO THAT QVESTION SO often , and so insultingly proposed by our Aduersaries , asking vs ; Where this our Religion was , before Luthers time ? IT is a common question , and often propounded by Papists in an insulting manner ouer vs , Where our Religion was before Luthers time ? As though wee could not answere to the demand , nor fetch our Religion from any more ancient , or better Author : but they are deceiued in both . And that I may not be tedious in prefacing , I answer : I. It was , and is written , and contained in the holy Scriptures , the Canonicall Books of the old and new Testament . II. The same hath been , and is written in the hearts of Gods people , such as the Lord from time to time effectually hath called , according to euerie mans measure , as they haue bin taught it , and learned it out of those books of holy Scripture . For this must we know , that no other doctrine of Christian Religion was , or is written in mens hearts , by Gods Spirit , then that which the same Spirit inspired the Pen-men of the Scriptures to write in those Bookes . The necessarie truths of doctrine therein contained ( as God had promised ) hath he written in the hearts of his people , Ier. 31.33 , 34. 2. Cor. 3.3 . And for these ends , that they might know God , and know him to be their God , and they his people , Ier. 31.33 , 34. that they might make profession thereof , and obediently set themselues to the practice of that his blessed will , Ezech. 11.19 , 20. & 36.26 , 27. III. That it was also written in learned mens labours , agreeing with those holy Bookes , as they found the truth therein , taught vnto them by the Prophets and Apostles . So as the doctrine of our Religion is no other , then that which the Scriptures doe teach , the Church and true People of God haue beleeued , and professed ; nor no other then that , which is to be found in the writings of y e holy ancient Fathers , and of learned men , before euer Luther was borne . That our Religion was thus before Luthers time , I proue by these ensuing reasons . I. Argument . From holy Scriptures , wherein our Religion is written and taught in euery point . THat Religion which is in all and euerie point thereof written , and prescribed in holy Scriptures , the Canonical books of the old and new Testament , was before Luthers time . For the Scriptures were written many hundred yeeres , before Luther was in beeing , and the Pen-men thereof had a care to practise the same . But this our present Religion in all and euerie point thereof ( wherein we differ from our Aduersaries ) is written and prescribed in the holy Scriptures , the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament : as is in euery particular point prooued exactly by those of our side . And therefore was it before Luthers time . The Minor I thus prooue . I. By the publike Records of our Church here at home , as the publike authorized Catechisme , shorter and larger , by the booke of Homilies , by the book of Articles , and our booke of Common-prayer . Out of which ( wherein soeuer we differ from our Aduersaries ) nothing is found besides , as wanting warrant of Scripture , much lesse any thing contrarie thereunto , but euery thing grounded vpon , and fully agreeing with the same . II. By Gods Spirit , the Author of the Scriptures , which doth further our Religion in the hearts of the people , through the reading and interpreting thereof , which the Spirit of God would not doe , if our Religion were not that , which the Scriptures teach . For would the Author of the one , approue of the other , if they were not both one ? If hee should further a Religion , contrarie to the Scripture , hee should be contrary to himselfe , allowing and making good that in mens hearts by inward operation , which he hath disallowed by the Scriptures , which are of his diuine inspiration . It is euident to all that are read in the Scriptures , that they condemne all Heathenish , al Heretical , and Idolatrous Religion ; likewise , all will-worship , all vaine inuentions of men , the seruing of God by humane traditions , by the precepts and doctrines of men : so as if our Religion were any such , Gods Spirit would not grace it , nor so knit mens harts vnto it , nor so effectually worke by it in mens consciences , nor so perswade vnto it , as he daily doth by the Scriptures . If they shall denie , that Gods Spirit doth any such thing , as we suppose ; I would faine know of them , what other spirit it possibly may be , that doth so leade men to esteeme so much the Scriptures , doth excite men to the studie of them , and to make them the onely rule of doctrine , and life , to heare , belieue , rest and delight in them , and so to worship God onely , as herein he requireth to be worshipped , and to reiect whatsoeuer is not warranted by them , in euery necessarie point of faith ? And that onely vpon this perswasion , that the Scriptures are Gods word , that they are endited by his Spirit , and written by his holy Prophets and Apostles ? If this be not the Spirit of God , which doth thus magnifie the holy Scriptures in the heart of euery sound Christian , what spirit then is it ? Certainely it must bee either the Spirit of God , or of Man , or of the Deuill . But neither of these two latter , therefore the former . I. It is not the spirit of man that can , and doth thus worke : for first , the spirit of man perceiueth not the things of God , till Gods Spirit acquaint him with them . Secondly , they be foolishnesse vnto him . Thirdly , his wisdome is enmitie with God , so as Gods wisdome in diuine mysteries , and mans wisdome can neuer agree in one . Fourthly , the spirit of man sauoureth the things of the flesh , and not of the Spirit of God. Fifthly , his heart is continually euil , till he be regenerate . Sixthly and lastly , it is euidently knowne by too much miserable experience , that man loueth not the studie of the Scriptures , he cannot delight in them , hee cannot away to frame his life after them ; euery one that hath any sparke of diuine knowledge , knoweth this to bee true from his owne naturall corruption , both in himselfe and others also . Now can any reasonable-minded man thinke , that such an auerse spirit as is in man , so disaffecting the holy Scriptures , and the studie thereof , that it can be that Spirit which perswadeth and draweth men , contrary to it corrupt selfe , to embrace that Religion which is grounded vpon the Scriptures , and to presse to the obedience thereof ? Yea , can it bee mans spirit , that worketh loue to such a Religion , which so opposeth mans corruption , as the worldly wise Politician derideth it , the pleasurable man hateth it , the greedy of gaine cannot abide to bee ruled by it , and the haughtie spirit which hunteth after the pride of life , hath it in great contempt ? so as none in very deed , but onely such as doe denie themselues , doe forsake the world , and can bee well contented to take vp their crosse , and follow Christ , either can , or will embrace the same . II. It is not the spirit of Satan . For although hee will abusiuely now and then alleage Scripture , yet is he a deadly enemie to the Scriptures : he will not leade to the right vse of them , nor perswade men to frame their Religion and life after them , but rather doth suggest the cleane contrarie , as the storie of the Scriptures witnesseth , and our owne temptations tell vs. For , as a * Father saith , The Deuill cannot endure to haue any to studie the Scriptures ; that is torment and paine aboue all paines to him . He hath euer been a raiser vp of persecution against such , as serue God in a Religion onely grounded vpon the Scriptures : as hee was in the Iewes , against the Apostles , and the beleeuing Gentiles ; so in Gentiles Infidels , against Christians ; in the Heretikes against the Orthodoxall ; in our Antichristian Aduersaries against vs ; and in all lewde liuers , the children of disobedience , in whom he beareth rule , and whose hearts he stirreth vp to doe his will against all such , as in a more strict manner endeuour to frame their liues after Gods Word , though in general together , they professe one God , and haue receiued the same Baptisme , and doe liue together in the same Church . Therefore wee see , that it cannot be the spirit of Satan , that perswadeth to our so holy a Religion by the Scriptures , vpon which onely it is settled , seeing he so deadly hateth such a Religion , and the sound and zealous Professours thereof . III. It is not the spirit of man and Satan together , as may appeare , first , in Heretikes , who are led by Satan , and their owne spirit . These being not able to iustifie their heresies by holy Scripture , they fall to weaken the authoritie of the Scriptures , they will not rest on them , but doe flie the light of them , as Tertullian , and other ancient Fathers witnesse of Heretikes in their times , who left the Scriptures , and ran to Traditions , as did the Manichees , Cerynthians , Basilidians , Carpocratians , Marcionists , Valentinians , Arians , and others . Secondly , In all will-worshippers , which framing a seruice to God out of their owne braines , cannot away to make holy Scriptures their guide , but doe leaue them assoone as they bee addicted to their owne inuentions , of which , God by his Prophets in Scripture often complaines . Thirdly , In Heathen Idolaters , who haue been set on worke by the Deuill to burne the Scriptures , as did that wicked Dioclesian ; also here in Brittaine , the Infidell Saxons ; and in Ierusalem , that vngodly Iehoiakim , who burnt the Prophecie of Ieremiah , which Baruch writ from his mouth at that time . Fourthly , In our Aduersaries now , who cannot rest with the Scriptures , nor will admit them , as the only Iudge in controuersies , nor as the onely Rule of Religion . And the very reason is , because they teach and practise many things out of their owne spirit , euen the doctrine of Deuils , which the Scripture vtterly condemneth . Their Sainted will-worshippers in their Heremeticall life , and their world of Monkish Orders , cannot abide the rule of Scripture ; their holy course of life so much admired and extolled ( yet onely of such as know not the power of Satan , in the deceiueable wayes of his vnrighteousnesse ) dares not stand to be iudged , ruled , and squared after the rule of holy Scriptures : yea , as holy as they pretend to bee , yet neither can they , nor wil they wholly frame their seruice and deuotion and life after the Word of life . And therefore we see , that it cannot be the spirit of Man and Satan , whether apart considered or conioyned , that doth perswade , mooue and further to the embracing of that Religion , which is wholly grounded vpon the Scriptures , as ours is . And therefore not being either of these , it followeth , that it must needs bee the Spirit of God , that thus perswadeth men to our Religion by the Scriptures , wherein it is contained . III. Our Religion appeareth to be written in , and iustified by the Scriptures , for that in those places it getteth entrance , and thriueth , where they are permitted to be studied , and read of all , and to be taught , as the onely rule of Religion . The Scriptures are the very life and strength of our Religion , as is sufficiently knowne by experience to our very Aduersaries . Now , how could this be , if our Religion were not that , which is taught in the Scriptures ? For the Scripture , as is aforesaid , doth condemne Heretikes & Heresies , will-worship and will-worshippers , idolatry and idolaters ; and is the Sword of the Spirit , the breath of Christs mouth , that consumeth the Man of Sinne. If our Religion were heresie , or wil-worship , or idolatrie , or the inuention of that Man of sin , the Scriptures could not be the life and strength thereof , seeing they oppose , and vtterly condemne those things . IV. Our Religion standeth , and is vpheld by such holy and heauenly meanes onely , as the Scriptures allow and prescribe , and which we find there to bee the onely meanes , vsed at the first planting of Christian Religion by the Apostles in the Primitiue Church , which were these that follow . I. There was then the preaching of Gods Word . This meanes was prescribed by our Sauiour Christ , to make Disciples vnto him , Mat. 28.19 , 20. and the same obserued by his Apostles , Mark. 16.15 . 20. Acts 2.14 . & 10.34 . & 11.19 . So preaching of Gods Word is the meanes , by which our Religion , through Gods blessing , is planted in mens hearts . As also it was foretold and appointed , that it should bee the meanes to regaine people from vnder Antichrist , Reuel . 10.11 . & 14 6. II. There was the teaching of the grounds , and principles of Christianitie , then called milke , now commonly called , the Catechisme , Heb. 6.1 . & 5 12. 1. Cor. 3.2 . This hath greatly furthered our Religion , euen by the testimony of our Aduersaries , and is a speciall meanes to informe the minds of the ignorant , in the truth of our Religion , that they may not be deceiued . III. Then was teaching and preaching altogether out of the Scriptures of the Prophets . The Apostles taught the Gospell onely out of them , Rom. 1.2 . Acts 26.22 & 28.23 . the Scriptures they cited , Acts 1.16 . & 2.16 , 17. by them they confuted the Aduersaries , Acts 17.2 . & 18.28 . So our teaching and preaching is out of the Scriptures of the Prophets and Apostles : by these we confirme our doctrine , and by these chiefely doe we confute our Aduersaries . IV. Then was allowed the vse of the holy Scriptures indifferently to all sorts , without restraint or exception ; they were free to all of the Laity , both men and women . The Apostles neuer forbade them to any , nor euer reprooued any for reading or studying of them , but commended them to all sorts , 2. Tim. 3.15 , 16. 2. Pet. 1.19 , 20 , 21. and left it written , as a matter worthy prayse in religious men , the Eunuch , and the Noble Baereans , that they read and searched the Scriptures ; so also in godly women for training vp their children herein , Acts 8.30 . & 17.11 . 2. Tim. 1.5 . & 3.15 . Yea , Peter ( whom our Aduersaries make their Rocke ) in generall telleth all Christian beleeuers , that they should do well to take heed thereunto , as to a sure Word , 2. Pet. 1.19 . So is there here with vs , the free vse of the Scriptures ; this wee commend to all sorts , forbid them to none , but rather hold them most religious , who delight in the holy and reuerent studie of the Scriptures , according to the practice of the ancient Primitiue Church in the Apostles dayes . V. Then were there publike Assemblies , where they met together , 1. Cor. 11.18 , 19. Acts 1.13 . & 2.46 . and that vpon the first day of the weeke , Acts 20.7 . 1. Cor. 16.2 . These Assemblies none might forsake , but all were mutually to exhort to the frequent vse of them , Heb. 10.25 . to beware of causing diuisions and offences , contrary to the receiued doctrine of the Apostles , Rom. 16.17 . So haue wee publike Assemblies , where wee meete on the first day of the weeke , and at other times , which all are bound to come vnto , and none ought to forsake , to preuent diuisions , contrarie to the Apostolicall doctrine , and to preserue the publike profession and exercise of our Religion . VI. Then was there set ouer euery seuerall Assembly and Congregation , such as might be able to teach , hauing the ouersight of the people , and care of their soules , Acts 14.23 . Tit. 1.5 . Acts 20.28 . Heb. 13.7 , 17. 1. Pet. 5.2 , 3. So is this in our Church a most excellent meanes to vphold our Religion . VII . Then was God onely worshipped , and he onely prayed vnto in those Assemblies ; not Saints , nor Angels , nor the Virgin Marie . In them prayers were made with one accord , Acts 1.14 . & 2.42 . & 4.24 . the Word read , 1. Thes . 5.27 . Col 4.16 . the Word preached , Act. 20.7 . the Sacraments administred , Act. 2.42 . 1. Cor. 11.18 , 20 , 23 , 26. and the Lords Supper in both kinds deliuered , 1. Cor. 10.16 . Collections were also made for the poore , 1. Cor. 16.12 . and al things were performed to edification , in a known tongue , 1. Cor. 14. In our Assemblies God is onely worshipped , to him onely we make our prayers , and neither to Saint nor Angell , nor to the Virgin Mary ; though wee honour them duly as we ought . In our Assemblies , Prayer is made with one accord , the Word read and preached , the Sacraments administred , and the Lords Supper in both kinds deliuered , Almes , as need requires , giuen to the poore , and all done to edification , and in a knowne tongue , as in the Apostles dayes . VIII . Then was preached against , and forbidden all will-worship , though neuer so faire in shew , all seruice to God after the doctrine and cōmandements of men , Col. 2.20 , 23. also , the worship of Angels , Col. 2.18 . the worship of Idols , 1. Ioh. 5.21 . and fellowship with Idolaters , 1. Cor. 8.10 . and 5.11 . 2. Cor. 6.14 , 18. So with vs are forbidden all these things , and condemned by our Religion , as is euident by our booke of Homilies , booke of Articles , the publike authorized larger Catechisme , and other publike Records : yea , the forbidding , abolishing , and preaching against these things , is an excellent meanes to vphold the purity of our Religion , which in it selfe is so contrary to all will-worship , humane inuentions , superstition and idolatry . IX . Then was the exercise of Ecclesiasticall discipline for the preseruation of order , for the punishing and casting out of obstinate Heretikes , 1. Tim. 1.20 . & 6.3 . Tit. 3.10 . as also of notorious offenders , which would not otherwise bee reformed , 1. Cor. 5.7 . 2. Thes . 3.14 . and those the people were to auoyd , 1. Cor. 5.10 . 2. Thes . 3.6 . 2. Tim. 3.5 . Ephes . 5.7 . This godly discipline duly obserued , is of great force to preserue our Religion , and to keepe it in honour and estimation . X. Then was there vrging and pressing to a holy conuersation , both in Pastors , Tit. 2.7 , 8. 1. Tim. 4.12 . and in the people , Rom. 12.1 , 2. Eph. 5. & 6. This Christian-like conuersation adorneth our Religion , which is onely powerfull in them which liue well ; for it condemneth all Libertinisme , and requireth very strict obedience to God and his Word . XI . Then was suffering of persecution for the truth , and the same foretold to accompany the godly , Acts 14.22 . 1. Thes . 3.3 . 2. Tim. 3.12 . & 1.8 . Phil. 1.19 . which greatly furthered Religion , taught by the Apostles , Phil. 1.12 . And so hath it done ours in these parts of Christendome , as the World knoweth . XII . Then was taught subiection both of Pastors and people vnto Principalities and Powers , as to Kings , so to inferiour Magistrates sent by them . All sorts without exception , were taught obedience to them , and for conscience sake , were they bound to render to them dues , tribute , custome , honour . They were commanded to make prayers for them with thanksgiuing , which was a meanes to further Religion : for the Apostle telleth them , that thus to doe is well-doing , and a meanes to stop the mouthes of the Aduersaries , that so they might leade a quiet and peaceable life in al godlinesse and honestie , Rom. 13.1 , 7. T it 3.1 . 1. Pet. 2.13 , 17. 1. Tim. 2.1 , 2. This is , & hath bin an excellent meanes to aduance our Religion : for Kings and Princes seeing , that our true and Apostolicall Religion did not derogate from their lawfull authoritie , did not draw subiects from their allegeance , nor exempt any from their true obedience , but rather maintained the right , which God by his holy Word in Scriptures had giuen them ; they submitted to the truth , and embraced our Religion , shaking off the yoake of Antichrist , and so tooke vpon them the authoritie giuen them of God , to reforme Religion , according as they were taught , and had learned the doctrine of Christ in the Scriptures . Thus wee see , first , the ordinarie meanes which the holy Scriptures prescribe , and euidently shew to haue been vsed in the Primitiue Church , for the planting and vpholding of Christian Religion . And secondly , that the very selfe-same haue been , and yet are the meanes for planting and preseruing of our Religion , in euery Country where it hath been receiued . Which meanes are so powerfull and effectuall for this purpose , that looke by how much these meanes are put in execution , by so much doth our Religion prosper , in spite of all worldly oppositions , and gaine-sayings whatsoeuer : and on the contrarie , looke as these meanes , either wholly , or but in part , are neglected , or faile to bee performed , so doth our Religion lose of its strength , and decay amongst the people , what policie soeuer men otherwise vse to vphold the same . For our Religion stands by holy and heauenly meanes , and not by meere worldly policie , or humane deuices , faire shewes to the eyes , delights to the eare , pleasurable obiects to delight the carnally-minded . Neither can it be held by any Satanicall delusions , fabulous narrations , feigned miracles , deceitfull iugglings ; nor by pretended apparitions of Angels , or of soules departed ; nor by the bare authoritie of mens sayings , Decrees of corrupt Councels , Popes sentences , wrangling Canonists , Sophisticall distinctions of Schoolemen , humane Traditions , Apocryphall writings , old and idle customes , examples of ignorant forefathers , estimation of mens persons for learning , and shew of holinesse ; nor by any deceitfull , wicked , and corrupt dealing , as by counterfeite and bastard writings , corrupting of Councels and Fathers , expunging words and sentences out of learned mens workes , or altering them from the true meaning , to beguile the simple Reader . No , nor by furious and forcible meanes ; as by fire and fagot , massacres , treasons , poysons , and stabbing of Kings , and Gun-powder-plots , nor by any such hellish practices , such as the Apostles neuer spake of , the Primitiue Church neuer knew of , nor in holy Scripture were euer spoken of ; for all these , our Religion doth vtterly condemne . It is vpheld only by those holy and heauenly meanes , which the Apostles taught , and practised , and which they haue left written in the Scriptures for direction of Gods Church , that she may know , which be the onely effectuall meanes , that God hath appointed to vphold his true Religion . By these meanes onely , ours is preserued . And therefore it is that true Religion , which the holy Scripture teacheth . Which being so , I conclude this first argument , That this our present Religion , wherein we differ from our Aduersaries , was before Luthers time . II. Argument . From the blessed Martyrs in all Ages . THat Religion which was written by God in the hearts of his Martyrs , and which from the beginning to this day , they all suffered for , was before Luthers time . This cannot bee denied . But our Religion now present , was written by God in the hearts of his Martyrs , and is that which from the beginning to this day , they all suffered for . And therefore this our now present Religion was before Luthers time . The Minor is thus confirmed , both for the writing of it in their hearts , and for suffering for it . The latter manifesteth the former : for they that faithfully and constantly obey the truth , euen vnto suffering persecution , and death for it , without doubt haue it written in their hearts . For if Religion be not imprinted in the hearts of the Martyrs , in whose hart is it written ? For the Martyrs had the Spirit of the liuing God , sauing-knowledge , and remission of sinnes : they walked in Gods Statutes , and kept his Iudgements sincerely ; all which are the euident signes , that Gods truth was written in their hearts , as these places of Scripture witnesse , 2. Cor. 3.3 . Ier. 31.33 , 34. Ezech. 36.27 . This is not to bee doubted of . But the question is , Whether all the Martyrs did suffer for this our Religion , or no ? To answere to this , wee must consider , that all the Martyrs of Christ may be ranked into foure sorts , euery of which suffered for such truths , as are in our Religion , which we doe at this day professe . I. Sort of Martyrs were those , who suffered by the Iewes , whereof the first was Stephen , then Iames , with many more , Act 7. & 12.2 , 4. All these did suffer for that Religion , which Christ and his Apostles taught : but they taught out of the Scriptures , and not out of Traditions , as the Euangelists and Acts shew . But to suffer for that Religion , which is onely taught in the Scriptures , is to suffer for ours , as by the former argument is prooued . Therefore they suffered for our Religion . II. Sort of Martyrs were such , as suffered by and amongst the Heathen , especially vnder the Romane Tyrants , during the ten bloody persecutions ; among which Martyrs were most of the Apostles : for we reade not in Scripture , that any of the Apostles suffred martyrdome amongst the Iewes , but onely Iames , Iohns brother , Acts 12. the rest suffered among the Heathen . Now the Apostles being the planters of our Religion ( as by their writings doth appeare ) and also Martyrs for the same among this second sort , they must needs be our Martyrs , suffering for our Religion , and so all the rest which followed the Apostles in the same faith . III. Sort of Martyrs were such , as suffered by the furie and rage of Heretikes , when the Arians had god an ouerswaying power through Arian Emperours and Kings . But those Orthodoxall Martyrs and Confessors suffered for no other doctrine , then our Religion teacheth . For wee hold and professe the faith of the Councell of Nice , and Athanasius Creed ; for in our common Prayer-booke they are appoynted publikely to be read in our Assemblies . And therefore these also suffered for our Religion , and were our Martyrs . But heere our Aduersaries will say , that all these three sorts were their Martyrs ; for they brag and boast of these to silly people , as if they had suffered for their religion , now professed and practised among them . But that the truth may appeare , whether these Martyrs bee theirs , or ours , wee must consider them both as Martyrs , and also as beleeuers : properly they were Martyrs in those things , for which they did suffer . Now their suffering was for the common truths , receiued both by our Aduersaries and vs. So the cause making the Martyrs , and it equally held of both , they are our Martyrs , aswell as theirs . Yea , if we consider them also as Beleeuers , holding other points of faith , for which they were not questioned , neither suffered for , wee may more rightly claime them , then our Aduersaries . For of which Religion they held , and most agreed vnto , of that Religion must they be iudged to be . That this may bee knowne , it must be wel conceiued , what they and we meane by saying , Our Religion . We either side stand vpon our Religion , not as wee agree in points of Christianitie one with the other ; but as wee haue our differences also to our selues one from the other . So vpon this resteth the point , to trie the Martyrs whose they bee , theirs or ours , by their more or lesse agreeing , or disagreeing with either side in our said differences . But in respect of the maine differences of their Religion from ours , that they cannot claime the Martyrs , I thus proue by these ensuing reasons . I. If these maine , differences in their Religion be such , as none of these Martyrs ( which suffered by , and amongst the Iewes , or by , and amongst the Heathen , or by , and amongst the wicked Heretikes ) euer made profession of , much lesse suffered for , then in respect of these differences , are they not their Martyrs ; they cannot appropriate them to themselues , as they vse to doe , but are still Martyrs in common . But the antecedent is true , as shall be prooued by my third reason next following , for sixe hundred yeeres space after Christ , in which space were all three sorts of Martyrs . And therefore the consequence cannot be denied . II. If these differences in their Religion bee nothing else but humane inuentions , without sound authoritie from holy Scriptures , and that the Martyrs professed and beleeued those things onely , which expressely , or by necessarie conclusions , are contained in the Scriptures , then in respect of these differences , they are not their Martyrs . But the former part is true . Ergo , the latter must needes be granted . For the truth of the antecedent , touching the vnwarrantablenesse of these their differences , and without all ground of Scripture : I demand of Papists , what Scripture haue they for these things , wherein we and they doe differ ? I. Of God. What Scripture for the picturing of the holy Trinitie ; forbidden by Moses to be any way represented ? Deut. 4 15 , 16. II. Of the Scriptures . Where is it written , that the Scriptures receiue authoritie from the Church , and the sense thereof onely subiect vnto her ? That the Vulgar Latin translation is only to be admitted as authenticall ? That the Scriptures be imperfect , and are not the certaine rule of faith ? That there are traditions besides for perfecting the Scriptures , and to bee receiued with equall authoritie with Scriptures ? III. Of the Church . That the Catholike Church is not the company onely of Gods elect people ? That the Church of Rome cannot erre ? IV. Of the Pope . Where is Scripture to proue , that Peter was at Rome , and Bishop there twenty fiue yeeres ? That he was to be appointed Vicar of Christ ? That the Pope is the vniuersall Bishop ? That he onely is Peters successour , and Christs Vicar ? That he cannot erre è Cathedra ? That he is aboue Councels ? That hee may depose Kings from their temporall estates , and dispose of their Kingdomes ? That he can dispense with sinnes against the plaine Law of God ? That he can set soules free out of torments after this life ? V. Of the Clergie and Ecclesiasticall persons . In what place of Scripture is it taught , that there be Popes , Cardinals , and Popish Prelates like Princes ? That there are now Priests , to whom a speciall Office of Priesthood is assigned ? That there bee seuen degrees thereof ? That a man is now appointed in the time of the Gospell , to offer sacrifices daily for the quicke and the dead ? That all Churchmen ( so called ) are to liue vnmarried ? That a Monasticall life is the best estate ? That Ecclesiasticall persons are exempt from secular authority ? VI. Of the Sacraments . Where doth the Scripture teach , that Baptisme is to bee administred with Chrisme , Oyle , Coniuring , Salt , Spittle ? That there is such a spirituall kindred betweene the Witnesses , and the party baptized , as also betwixt the Parents and Children of those Witnesses , as it hindreth marriage ( without a dispensation ) betwixt one another , though there be otherwise no kindred either of affinity or consanguinity ? That Iesus Christ is bodily and wholly , as he is Man , borne of the Virgin Mary , in the Sacrament , the Bread being turned into his Flesh ? That it is a sacrifice for the quick and the dead ? That the Cake is to bee reserued , and carryed about in pompe , and that all are to fall downe to it , and worship it ? That it is to bee administred but in one kind ? That the Lay people must not take it , but gape and eate it ? That the Priest that saith Masse , must haue a shauen Crowne ; haue his Amice , Girdle , Aube , Manuple , Stole , Chesible , and other pretended holy vestments ? That he must vse such crossings , turning , duckings , liftings , whisperings , gapings , minglings of wine and water , such lickings , and other variety of stagelike gestures ? VII . Of Prayer . That it must be in Latine ? That not God onely , but Saints may be prayed vnto ? That the dead are to be prayed for ? That it is lawfull to pray by number , to say the same 150. times , and to pray vpon Beades ? VIII . Of Worship . What written Word teacheth , that Diuine Seruice is to bee said onely in the Latine Tongue ? That Saints , and their Reliques are to be adored ? That Images and Pictures are to be in Churches , for adoration sake , and to be Lay-mens bookes ? IX . Of the Virgin Mary . That she was borne without sinne ? That she is the Queene of Heauen , the Lady of the World ? That she is diuinely to be worshipped ? That shee is to haue her proper seruice , and her Aue Maries ? X. Of the Church or Temple , the place of publike worship . What Scripture , that Belles are to bee baptized ? That there must bee Altars , Veiles , Holy-water , Holy-ashes , Palmes , and many such trumperies ? That children dying without Baptisme , are not to be buried in the Church-yard ; and that there is for their soules a Limbus Infantium ? XI . Of dayes . Where doe the Apostles teach , that there are such a number of Holy-dayes , as be in that Religion ? That a speciall Holinesse is to be put in the obseruation of dayes ? That dayes and times are to bee set apart to the worship of Saints ? XII . Of meates . Where in Scripture reade they , that there is such a difference of meates , as the obseruation of such a difference at some times , is more holy , then at other some times ? All these differences are humane inuentions , without warrant of Scriptures . Now let them shew , that any of these sorts of Martyrs beleeued and professed these differences ; if they cannot , then the conclusion is good , that they were not their Martyrs by these differences , but in common still ours as well as theirs . III. If these differences be but a very patchery of Heresies , Iudaisme , and Paganisme , then in respect thereof , they cannot be their Martyrs : for Martyrs suffered for none of these three , but , in detestation thereof , were grieuously persecuted by Iewes , Pagans , and Heretikes . But the anticedent is most true , as our learned men haue made it manifest . For Heresies ; a Bish . Morton , b Doct. Whitacres , c Gab. Powel , and d Doctor Willet . For Iudaisme , e Doctor Raynolds hath sufficiently manifested it , and somewhat of Paganisme . But for this , reade Thom. Moresin , Doctor of Physick , his whole booke , called Papatus , printed at Edenburgh , and f Gab. Powel on the first Chapter to the Romanes . For all three , see a late published booke , called , The three Conformities . And therefore in respect of these differences , being hereticall , Iewish , and Paganish , these Martyrs are none of their Martyrs , neither did their sufferings make good any whit this their now present Religion . IV. If these differences from our Religion doe offer violence to the three Offices of Christ , and make their publike worship in many things blasphemous , and idolatrous ; then in respect of such differences , they are not their Martyrs . But the antecedent is true . Ergo , the consequent . To proue the antecedent , Doctor Fownes hath lately of purpose set forth his Trisagion , wherein he hath sufficiently confirmed it , out of their publike Missaes , Breuiaries , Portuses , Rosaries , Liturgies , Psalters , Primers , and Manuals of prayers , to which I referre the Reader for full satisfaction : And doe conclude therefore , that these blessed Martyrs were none of theirs , by vertue of these differences . V. If many of these differences of theirs be not only besides Scripture , without warrant from thence , as before is shewed , but also flat against Scripture , and against our common tenents , agreed vpon betweene vs and them : then in respect of these differences , they are not their Martyrs . For they did not suffer for those things which were against Scripture , and the common tenents of Christianity , wherein we and our Aduersaries doe agree . If they dare affirme this , let them giue instances thereof . But many of these their differences are against Scripture , and against the common tenents of Christianity , in which we both agree . Which being so , these their differences can be no part of Christianity , because they be against both the rule , and also against the grounds of Christianity . Therefore the consequence is true . That there are such differences betweene vs , I instance for proofe in these ensuing . That the Scriptures are imperfect , contrary to Psal . 19.7 . 1. Tim. 3.16 , 17. That there is an vnwritten word , called , Traditions , to be added thereunto ; contrary to Deut. 4.2 . Reuel . 21.8 . Prou. 30.6 . That the witnesse of the Church , is greater then the witnesse of the Scriptures , and to be beleeued before them : contrary to 1. Ioh. 5.9 . Ioh. 5.17 . That the inuisible God may bee pictured : contrary to Deut. 4.15 . Acts 17.29 . Esa . 40.18 . Rom. 1.23 . That Images may be made to be worshipped : contrary to Deut. 27.15 . Exod. 20. and that they are for instruction : contrary to Hab. 2.18 . That prayers may be made to the Virgin Mary , and to Saints departed : contrary to Matth. 6.19 . and contrary to the practice of the Patriarchs , Prophets and Apostles , and holy men in Scripture . That prayers made by number , and often repetitions , are pleasing vnto God , as when people are taught to pray by number on Beades : contrary to Matth. 6.7 . That they may be vttered in an vnknowne tongue , and also Gods publike seruice so said : contrary to 1. Cor. 14.15 , 19. That therein a generall good intent is acceptable to God , though the mind bee not endued with sound knowledge : contrary to Prou. 19 . 2.n 1. Cor. 14.20 . That the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , is to be administred and receiued in one kind : contrary to Matth. 26.27 . 1. Cor. 10.16 . & 11.23 , 24 , 25. That Iesus Christ is corporally in the Bread transubstantiated : contrary to Act. 3.21 . And that it is very God : contrary to Hos . 8.6 . That it is offered for a sacrifice propitiatory , as if Christ once offering himselfe , were not sufficient : contrary to Heb. 10.10 , 14. That the Law may be fulfilled , and a man iustified thereby before God : contrary to Rom. 7.19 . & 3.20 . & 4.2 . 1. Cor. 4.4 . Esa . 46.6 . That a man may merit by his works : contrary to Tit. 3.5 . Ephes . 2.8 , 10. Rom. 6.23 . Luk. 7.10 . That a man may bee able to doe more , then God requireth of him , or that hee is tyed by dutie to doe : contrary to Rom. 7.19 . Luk. 17.10 . Prou. 20.9 . Eccles . 7.20 . Psal . 130.3 . That the Pope may dispense with Gods Law : contrary to 1. Sam. 2.25 . Rom. 8.33 , 34. Iob 9.33 . & 34.29 . That there are sinnes which yet are not prohibited by Gods Law : contrary to 1. Ioh. 3.4 . Ro. 4.15 . & 7.8 . & 3.20 . That some sinnes are in themselues veniall , which deserue not death : contrary to Rom. 6.23 . Iames. 1.15 . Genes . 2.17 . That originall concupiscence is no sinne in the regenerate : contrary to Rom. 7.19 . Psalm . 51. That the Virgin Mary was without sinne : contrary to Iob 14.4 . Eccles . 7.2 , 20. Psal . 130.3 . Rom. 3.9 , 23. 1. Ioh. 1.7 , 8. Luk. 1.46 . That Marriage is not honourable in all sorts of men , as for instance , not in the Clergie : contrary to Hebr. 13.4 . 1. Cor. 7.9 . 1. Tim. 5.14 . and contrary to the practice of the married Priests vnder the Law. That married persons with consent , may euer liue asunder , to leade a Monasticall life : contrary to 1. Cor. 7.2 . That holinesse is to be put in the obseruation of dayes : contrary to Col. 2.16 . Of meates : contrary to Rom. 14.14 . 1. Cor. 8.8 . Matth. 15.20 . 1. Tim. 4.3 , 4. and so men lose thereby Christian liberty : contrary to Gal. 5.1 . That many who dye in the Lord , not abiects from God , yet rest not after death for a time : contrary to Reuel . 14.13 . but make a temporall satisfaction , in a place they call Purgatorie , whose sinnes although heere pardoned , yet goe not these soules immediately to heauen : contrary to Luk. 23.43 . where the good Thiefe is promised Paradise , which is Heauen , 2. Cor. 12.3 , 4. That the Popes power is kingly , yea , that he may vse the temporall Sword , and depose Kings , and dispose of their Kingdomes , and be subiect to none : contrary to Luke 22.25 , 26. Matth. 20.25 , 26. Rom. 13. 1. Tit. 3.1 . 1. Pet. 2.13 . That he which gets the Popes dispensation , sinneth not in that he doth , though the same be against Gods Law : contrary to Matth. 5.19 . Deut. 27.26 . Ier. 11.3 . Ioh. 3.4 . That the Pope is Christs Vicar , and yet may intermeddle with the earthly and temporall Kingdomes of this World : contrary to Christs owne practice , Luk. 12.14 . the nature of his Kingdome , Iohn 18.36 . against the nature of such spirituall weapons and power which God gaue to his Apostles , 2. Corint . 10.4 , 5 , 6. Yea , that the Pope may take vpon him ( as hee doth ) to haue to doe with those which are without , to wit , the Heathen , to giue away their Kingdomes , ( as he presumeth to doe with such as forsake him , whom hee iudgeth to bee Heretikes ) contrary to 1. Cor. 5.12 , 13. That his Clergie are exempted from ciuill iurisdiction : contrary to Christs commandement , Matth. 22.21 . to his practice , Matth. 17.27 . to Saint Peters teaching , 1. Pet. 2.13 , 14. and to Saint Pauls , Rom. 13.1 , 7. Tit. 3.1 . It were infinite to particularize all the differences betweene our Religion and theirs , wherin they are contrary to holy Scripture , and contrary to the tenne Commandements , the Creed , the Lords Prayer , and the two Sacraments . Of which if any desire herein instances to be better satisfied , let him reade Gabriel Powel , who hath purposely set downe a multitude of particulars . VI. And lastly , if none of the Martyrs were Papists , or ( as they please to call themselues ) Romane Catholiks ; then could they not bee their Martyrs : for they which bee not such , are not held to bee of their Romane Religion , nor Church . But none of these Martyrs were Papists , or Romane Catholikes ; for they held not these many differences of theirs from vs , by which a Papist becommeth a Papist or Romane Catholike , and without which hee is not by them approoued to be such a one . For let a man hold all other poynts of Christianity wholly and fully ; yet if he hold not , that the Pope hath authority , as Christs Vicar vpon earth : that the Church of Rome is the Mother and Mistresse of all Churches : that there are seuen Sacraments : that the Sacrament may be receiued in one kind : that the bread after consecration is transubstantiated , and Christ there corporally vnder the formes of Bread and Wine , and so to bee diuinely adored : that seruice is to bee said euery where in Latine : that Images are to bee set in Churches , and to bee worshipped : that Saints departed , are to bee prayed vnto , and their Reliques worshipped : that there is a Purgatory for penall satisfaction after this life : that our workes doe merit , and that we are iustified by them before God : that Ecclesiasticall persons may not marry : that confession of sinnes is to be made secretly to a Priest in his eare , and that hee hath power iudicially to absolue the confitents , and impose penance vpon them for satisfaction for sinne vnto God. These , and such like articles newly coyned , whosoeuer doth not hold , is not iudged to be a Romane Catholike But none of these differences did these Martyrs hold , much lesse euer suffered persecution for . For not one of these articles of the Trent Conuenticle was held in the time of these sorts of Martyrs , all of them suffering within the 600. yeeres after Christ , in which space was there none that might be called a Papist , or Roman Catholike after the definition of the Trentists . And therefore were they not their Martyrs , neither did any of them professe the now new Romane Trentisme . And thus wee see , how by these differences they cannot claime the Martyrs . Now our differences from them , are all grounded vpon Scriptures , and principles of Christianity , and warranted by such common truth of Christian Religion , as they and we doe fully accord in ; not one of our differences being either heresie , or any part of Iudaisme , or Paganisme , nor euer condemned by any generall Councell in the space of these first sixe hundreds of yeeres , in which these three sorts of Martyrs did liue . True it is , that our aduersaries call vs Heretikes , and lay heresies to our charge , but falsely , without iust proose , as our learned Whitacres , Bishop Morton , and others , shew in answering Bellarmine his calumnies herein to the full . Seeing then our differences and truths of Christian Religion , taught by the Apostles , and by the succeeding Pastors , and belieued by the Church , are the parts of that Faith and Religion , which these Martyrs suffered for ; I conclude , that in regard both of the truthes , wherein wee and our Aduersaries agree , and also of our differences , wherein we disagree from the now present Church of Rome , they were our Martyrs , and none of theirs . IV. Sort of Martyrs are those , who suffered by , and amongst these our aduersaries , as the Berengarians , Waldenses , Albigenses , Wicklife and his followers in England , Iohn Hus , and Ierome of Prague , at Constance , and many moe in Bohemia , and in other places , euen to Luthers time , and after , an innumerable multitude slaine and massacred , burnt , and put to sundry deathes for our Religion , and for gaine-saying our aduersaries in those differences , which we now stand out in , against the Church of Rome at this present . These were therefore our Martyrs . But our aduersaries will say , that these were no Martyrs , but condemned Heretikes . That they were Martyrs , & no Heretikes , its cleare . S. Iohn in the Reuelation , calleth those Saints and Martyrs of Iesus , Reuel . 17.6 . which should suffer for the Word of God , for refusing to worship the Beast and his Image , and for not receiuing his marke in their fore-heads , or in their hands , Reuel . 20.4 . and for keeping the Commandements of God , and the faith of Iesus , and so dying in the Lord , should rest from their labours , and be accounted blessed , Reuel . 14.12 , 13. But such were these our Martyrs , for they suffered for Gods Word , for keeping the Commandements and Faith of Iesus , and for refusing to worship the Beast and Whore of Rome ; drunke with the blood of the Saints . And therefore were blessed Martyrs , and no Heretikes . But they will say ; These held diuers errours , and were not in all things wholly with vs ? They suffered , and were Martyrs for those selfe-same things , which with vs they witnessed against the Church of Rome . II. Many errours are ascribed vnto them , which they neuer held , as Doctor Vsher Bishop of Meeth learnedly shewes . III. Though in some things they should haue differed from vs , yet doth not that make them not to be of our Religion . For if for lighter differences in opinions , men should be held not to be of the same Religion ( if so our aduersaries will conclude ) then are the now Romanists not of one and the same Religion , which is now professed at Rome : for one of them differs much from another in many things . Neither haue they any right to the ancient Fathers , betweene whom and these our aduersaries , is also great difference , and that in many things . These Martyrs therefore , though they might differ from vs in some things ( the Light then not shining so clearely , as now it doth ) were our Martyrs . Thus wee see all the Martyrs from the beginning , to be ours , and so haue our Aduersaries none at all , which may be properly called theirs , for the first 600. yeeres : For if they claime the first three sorts , it s but as they doe agree with vs ; for in their differences from vs , the Martyrs are none of theirs . The fourth sort are clearely our owne , and are Martyrs in defence of our differences from them . But for their differences , they haue no Mrrtyrs of Iesus : for such Martyrs as be his Martyrs , suffer for his sake , for Gods Word , for his Faith and Commandements : but their differences are not Gods Word , nor the Faith , nor Commandements of Iesus , neither suffered Papists here for Religion ; but for treason , rebellion , disloyall acts , for denying due obedience to lawfull authority , and for standing in defence of forraine power , and the authority of the Whore of Babylon , the murtherer of Saints , and of that Antichrist the Pope , as hee is prooued sufficiently so to bee . And therefore I conclude , our Religion to be before Luthers time . III. Argument . From the Writings of the ancient Fathers . THat Religion which is to be found in the writings of the ancient Fathers , as professed and taught by them , in the first 600. yeeres after Christ , that was before Luthers time . But this our present Religion ( in the poynts of doctrine wherin we differ from our Aduersaries ) is to be found in the writings of the ancient Fathers , as professed and taught by them in the first 600. yeeres after Christ . Therefore was this our present Religion ( in the poynts of doctrine , wherein wee differ from our Aduersaries ) before Luthers time . The Minor I thus prooue : All the differing Religions of greatest note , which were euer since Christs ascension , are one of these ; Iudaisme , Gentilisme , or Paganisme , Arianisme ( vnder which I comprehend all heresies ) Mahometisme , or Turcisme , the present Religion of the Church of Rome , which may be called Trentisme , or Iesuitisme , commonly called , Papistrie ; and this our Religion termed , The reformed Religion , or Protestancy ; which wee professe and teach with an vnanime consent in the Harmonie of Confessions , otherwise then the Church of Rome now doth . But those ancient Fathers taught not Iudaisme , nor Paganisme , nor Arianisme , or other heresies , which in those dayes rose vp , nor Mahometisme . Ergo , either the Religion of the now Church of Rome , or ours , with either of our differences one from another . But not so this of theirs . For those differences on their part , whereby a man becommeth a Romane Catholike , or Papist , the ancient Fathers , with one consent , neuer taught . The differences are mentioned before : for all which if they can produce the vnanime Consent of those Fathers in 600. yeeres space , we yeeld them the Fathers : but if not , then are they ours , as they that taught and professed our Religion . For they not onely taught all the maine poynts of faith , which we and our aduersaries doe agree in ; but also all the principall differences with vs , wherein we and our aduersaries doe differ , as Polanus hath largely prooued , to whose learned paines I referre the Reader . Therefore this our present Religion was before Luthers time . IV. Argument . From the witnesse of our very Aduersaries . THat Religion which is to be found in the publike records of the Church of Rome , and in the writings of learned men therein , from the very first foundation of it vnto this day ; that was before Luthers time . This ( I hope ) may passe for current . But this our present Religion is such a religion ; and therfore before Luthers time . The Minor , if they deny , is thus confirmed . I. There are amongst them the holy Scriptures , which they acknowledge to be the Word of God : but by those Scriptures may all our Religion be proued , and fully confirmed , in any thing wherein we differ from our aduersaries . And therefore this our Religion is to be found among them . II. There is that which is called , The Apostles Creed , and the Nicene Creed , which they professe , the Articles whereof we hold , and therein is contained the summe of our Faith. III. There is the Lords Prayer , the paterne of all true Prayers , according to which onely we teach how to pray aright , and thereafter doe frame our prayers . IV. There is the Decalogue and ten Commandements , which though defectiuely set downe in their Catechismes ( the second being left out ) yet are they wholly set downe in their Bibles , which ten Commandements are the summe of our morall obedience , and of our duties towards God , and our neighbours . V. They acknowledge the two Sacraments , Baptisme and the Lords Supper , both which we doe administer . VI. There are common tenents of Christianitie , which all Christian Churches haue euer held , wherein we & they doe fully agree . VII . There is their Seruice Booke , wherein though many abominations are to be found , yet in other things it iustifieth our Religion and Seruice : As may appeare by comparing our Seruice Booke with it ; out of which , ours was , for the substance thereof , taken . Against which they cannot iustly take exception ; neither are they able to prooue , by Gods Word , by the ancient Councels , and consent of the ancient Fathers , any thing Idolatrous , Heretical , or any way vnlawfull , wherein soeuer it differeth from theirs . VIII . There may also be found their accord in generall termes with vs , in those things , wherein for the particulars we and they bee at oddes , and doe disagree ; as Master Perkins giueth instance in one and twenty particulars ▪ and the like may be done in many other points . IX . And lastly , there is to be found all and euery point of our Religion particularly , wherein wee differ from them , which either wee affirme , or they deny ; or we denie , and they affrme ; and the same iustified by the writings of the learned amongst them . For proofe hereof , I referre the Reader to my Lord of Couentrie and Lichfield , his Catholike appeale , and Catholike Apologie , first and second parts ; to my Lord of Meeth , his booke de Chri. Eccles . succes . & statu ; to Illyricus , his Catalog . Test . Veritatis ; to Ioh. à Munster , his Nobilis Discursus ; to Doct. Feild , his fourth booke of the Church , who proueth seuen and twenty particulars of our maine differences out of their owne Writers . And if the writings of their learned men doe not iustifie our Religion , I would know , why they doe not suffer such writings to passe without purging ? For if such things were not for vs , and against them , they would not put out , nor alter , nor so indeed corrupt Authors , or inhibite them to passe abroad , as they doe : which one act of theirs sheweth , that our differences might bee prooued , euen by their owne Writers , if they might decide the controuersies betwixt vs and them . Thus we see , how our Religion is to be found amongst them , not onely in the points wherein wee doe agree , but euen in all our particular differences , in which wee stand out against the preualent faction of that Church , which alwaies hath ouer-borne the truth , which by others of more sound iudgement in that Church , hath been from time to time published and maintained . And therefore this our now present Religion was before Luthers time . V. Argument . From the beginning of our Religion here , before Austin the Monke came to this Iland . THat Religion which was here in this Iland of Great Britaine , before Austin the Monke came into it , that was before Luthers time : for this Monke came in many hundred of yeeres before Luther was borne . But this our present Religion was here in this Iland of Great Britaine , before Austin the Monke came into it . Therefore was it before Luthers dayes . The Minor I thus prooue : I. The Christian Religion taught at Ierusalem by the Apostles , and other Disciples of Christ , was our Religion , as by the first Argument is prooued from the Apostles writings . But that same Christian Religion was here taught , and that either by some Apostle , as Simon Zelotes ; or some Disciple of Christ , as Ioseph of Arimathea , * as some of our side haue prooued fully , and our Aduersaries yeeld vs. Now if that which was taught at Ierusalem was ours , then must it needs be ours , which Simon Zelotes , or Ioseph of Arimathea did here teach ; at the first planting of it , being before Austins time : for can any say , that these brought from Ierusalem hither , any other Religion , then the Apostles deliuered there ? II. That same Religion first taught , did continue here in succession from the Apostles dayes , and was held at Austins comming , as our aduersaries , the Apologists do proue , and doe take this also for an vndoubted truth , that the Britaine 's of Wales receiued the faith of Christ , by preaching of the Apostles , and held that Faith at Austins comming . Now the Faith taught by the Apostles , being the same with ours , as the holy Scriptures beare witnesse against all gaine-sayers ; it is cleare by the Apologists proofes , and their owne acknowledgement of the continuance thereof , from the very beginning , that this our present Religion was here in this Iland of Great Britaine , before Austins comming . III. Here were many which suffered Martyrdome in Dioclesians reigne , before Austines dayes , but it is prooued before in the second Argument , that all the Martyrs of Christ were of our Religion . And therefore was that our Religion , which was here before Austines time . IV. Before Austines comming , the Church of Christ here , was not subiect to the Romish Church : for first , they kept not their Easter after the Romish fashion , but as the Easterne Churches kept it , whence our Religion came . Now if they had been of the Romanists tutoring , the fierie spirit of Victor , who attempted to excommunicate the Easterne Churches , would haue compelled the Britains to haue kept their Easter , as hee did . Secondly , they administred Baptisme not after the ceremonious fashion of the Romanists . Thirdly , they refused to doe , what Austin required , neither would they acknowledge him their Archbishop , though sent from Rome by the Bishop there . Fourthly , both the Britaines , Scots , and Irish Bishops so vtterly reiected the Romish Bishops , as Bishop Daganus denied all communion with them , yea , and refused to eate bread with them in the same Inne ; so little regard had they then to the authoritie either of the Romish Church , or Romish Bishops . Yea , the Centurists , and other Protestants haue obserued out of Galfridus , that before Austines comming , there was here amongst the Britaines , the profession of more pure Christianity , then that which Austine brought from Rome . Its babbled out by our aduersaries , that this Austin conuerted this Iland : but this is most vntrue ; for Saint Aidan , and Saint Finan , were the Lords instruments to gaine many here to Christ . Saint Aidan recouered from Paganisme , the Kingdome of Northumberland , whereunto belonged ( besides Northumberland it selfe , the Lands beyond it , vnto Edenborow Frith ) these Countries , Cumberland , Westmerland , Lancashire , Yorkeshire , and the Bishopricke of Durham . Saint Finan regained not onely Essex and Middlesex , but also the large Kingdome of Mercia , conuerted first vnto Christianitie ; which Kingdome did comprehend vnder it these Countries ; Glostershire , Herefordshire , Worcestershire , Warwickshire , Leicestershire , Rutlandshire , Northamptonshire , Lincolneshire , Huntingtonshire , Bedfordshire , Buckingamshire , Oxfordshire , Staffordshire , Darbyshire , Shropshire , Nottingamshire , Cheshire , and halfe Hertfordshire . These holy men are they , which , vnder God , are to haue the prayse , and not Austin , who brought some , but few in comparison of these , to the profession of Christ : but withall , besmeared them with Romish superstitions . And such others as were already Christians , hee endeuoured to loade with humane inuentions , and vnnecessary ceremonies , and was ( if not the cause ) yet the occasion of the destruction of many , and of the miserable and mercilesse slaughter of the godly Monkes at Bangor , to the number of 1200. for that these poore Monkes would not submit to him , whom they saw to be too proud , and not so humble a man , as a man of God ought to haue been . V. That this our Religion was here before Austin , it may appeare by that publike doctrine of the Church which was taught about the time of Gregory , ( who sent in hither this Austin ) concerning the blessed Sacrament , altogether agreeing with our present doctrine , and plainely opposite to the doctrine of the now Church of Rome . For in an Homily of the Saxon Tongue , appointed to be preached on Easter day , throughout euery Church , the bread is acknowledged to be naturally corruptible bread , and corruptible wine ; truly Christs body and blood , yet not so bodily , but spiritually ; and nothing therein to be vnderstood bodily , but all spiritually . If this was the publike doctrine , so fully herein agreeing with vs , so contrary now to the Romish beliefe , in their transubstantiated bread ( for deniall whereof they haue murthered so many , and now hold it still so maine an article of their Romane beliefe , ) how can it be otherwise imagined , all things also before considered withall , but that the Religion then , was our religion now , and not this of the Church of Rome ? VI. It cannot be denied , if our Religion bee the same , which was planted by the Apostles in the Easterne Churches , from which our Religion was brought hither as is afore deliuered , but that then this our Religion was before Austines time . But that ours is the same , the Apostles writings written to the Churches shew . Secondly , an Apostle , or some Apostolicall men here taught it . Thirdly , the writings of the Greeke Fathers for 600. yeres space after Christ ( which is all the space from Christ to this Austin ) giue testimonie to our Religion in the maine points thereof , as is prooued before in the third argument . Fourthly , it is euident euen by those things , which yet the Churches at this day in those parts doe hold with vs , and wherein wee and they agree against the now Romish Religion . For the Greekes denie the Popes Supremacie , Purgatorie , and Prayer for the deliuerance of soules out of it , the necessitie of Auricular Confession , Meritorious satisfaction of the iustice of God , Transubstantiation , carued Images and Statues . They deny , that Saints departed , heare our Prayers . They administer the Sacraments in both kinds , and allow Ministers marriage . They mixe not water with wine , they vse not vnleauened bread . They admit not priuate Masses , nor the Circumgestation , or Adoration of the Sacrament , nor the publike seruice in an vnknowne tongue . They teach the assurance of saluation in Christ , and renounce the merit of workes . All which are opposite to the now Romish Religion , and are the truths of our Religion , taught by the Apostles , and holy ancient Fathers , from the beginning , in the Easterne Churches , wherein they are not falne from that which at first they receiued , as they be in some other things , which they teach and practise . VII . The Religion which we professe , is the same which was at Rome , at the time of the three conuersions of England , as they call them ; and therefore was this our Religion before Austines comming , and here professed when hee came in . The first conuersion was in the Apostles dayes ; but in their daies , was our religion at Rome , as Saint Pauls Epistle written to the Saints there , and other of his Epistles declare ; as also the Epistles of Saint Peter ( whom they would faine haue to haue been at Rome ) to which our Religion agreeth wholy and fully , wherein soeuer wee now differ from the present doctrine of the Church of Rome . Let their writings be Iudge , from which our aduersaries haue greatly erred , as is euidently prooued in all the maine poynts of the Christian Faith. And therefore was it our Religion then professed at Rome , and not this new Romish Faith. The second Conuersion they make to bee in Eleutherius dayes , who wrote , as they acknowledge , vnto our King here , called Lucius . If here was any conuersion wrought , it was to our Religion , and not to the present Romish Trentisme , as may be clearely gathered out of that Epistle of Eleutherius , and which they doe approue of , as written to the same Lucius . First , Eleutherius there telleth the King , that he had receiued the Law and Faith of Christ . Secondly , ( as hereby shewing him where this Law and Faith was to bee found ) he telleth him againe immediatly vpon these former words , that he had receiued both the parts of the scriptures . Thirdly , he so commendeth the Scriptures to the King and his Councell , that thence , by Gods grace , they themselues might take a Law to rule the Kingdome . This Bishop did not take vpon him to prescribe them Lawes , hee alloweth them ( being Lay persons , as they now speake ) to meddle with the holy Scriptures , and from thence ( and not from him , nor from his Lawes , nor from the Lawes of the Romanes ) to take a Law to liue by . This Bishop therefore held the Scripture sufficient for a direction and guide to a whole Kingdome ; hee held them not so obscure , but that the King and his Councell ( by Gods grace ) though but young Christians , might learne out of them the wil of God , how hee would haue a Christian Kingdome gouerned . Fourthly , this godly Bishop calleth Lucius Gods Vicar in his owne Kingdome , and alleageth Scripture to prooue it ; hee was not then swolne vp with the pride of Antichristian Supremacy , nor conceited any temporall power ouer kings , as now the Popes doe . Lastly , hee puts wholly the care of the people vpon the King , as a Father to looke to his children , to call them to the Faith and Law of Christ , and to the holy Church , hereby acknowledging the King to bee the supreme Head and Gouernour in all causes , aswell Ecclesiasticall , as Ciuill , and to be Gods Vicar in his owne Realme ; which title that Bishop twice nameth in that Epistle . Thus we see out of this short Epistle , what we may thinke of the Religion then at Rome , and how agreeing to ours now , and differing from theirs at this present . The third conuersion ( for which they magnifie so much this Austin , but very falsely ) was in Gregorie the Great his dayes . In which time , though many corruptions were crept into the Church of Rome : yet the maine points of our differences , wherein we differ from this present Romish superstition , were then taught in that Church , as may appeare out of the writings of Gregorie , as he did then teach , concerning holy Scriptures , the grace of God , of Freewill , of the Law , of iustification , of Faith , of good Workes , also concerning the not worshipping of Images , likewise of the acknowledging of the two Sacraments , also his iudgement of the Church , of the head of the Church , of Antichrist , of an vniuersall Bishop , of secular power ouer Bishops , of Marriage , of soules departed , and whither they went. Gregorie was no Patrone of the Romish Masse , nor of the corporall and transubstantiated bread , nor of merit , nor of Papall supremacy , nor of temporall iurisdiction ouer Kings and Emperours , nor of the necessitie of Ceremonies alike in euery Church . Gregorie held not the Machabees canonicall , but taught the perfection of Canonicall Scripture ; he exhorted Lay men to the studie of them , and in his time the Scriptures were allowed , and prayers were said in a knowne and vulgar tongue : he held the Catholike Church to be the elect , and the reprobate out of it , and was against marriages within degrees forbidden , Leuit. 18. Thus we see that at the three conuersions , our Religion now , and that at Rome then , was one and the same . Neither can our aduersaries shew the contrary from Scripture , from the vniforme consent of ancient Fathers , either Greeke or Latine , or from generall Councels within those times , no nor from the Bishops of Rome themselues , for that space ; if they will make conscience to deale squarely , plainly and honestly in their proofes . And that they may so doe , I would entreate to lay aside , first , all counterfeite Decretall Epistles such as those be , which are ascribed to the Bishops of Rome in the first 300 yeeres , as our learned men haue prooued both by reasons , and from the testimonie of the learned among them . Secondly , those partly corrupted , and partly also counterfeit Decretall Epistles , in the next 300. yeeres . Thirdly , all the counterfeite and corrupt Canons of Councels . Fourthly , all the bastard writings put vpon the ancient Fathers . Fifthly , the places corrupted in any of their writings . If they will cast off this great and wicked deceite , in alleaging these for themselues , the truth of my assertion , That this our Religion was then at Rome , and not this their present Romish faith , will manifestly appeare to all men not wilfully blinded , for by and worldly respects . Lastly , the Christian Religion first planted in Ireland , was before Austins comming in hither . For , as is afore spoken , Scottish and Irish Christian Bishops withstood him at his comming . But that which was then receiued , and professed by the ancient Irish , was for substance the very same , which is now here in England by publike authoritie maintained , as is substantially proued by a godly learned Father in all Antiquities of the Church , the Lord Bishop of Meeth ; to which I referre euery Reader , which desireth to bee satisfied in theirs , and our agreement about Scripture translations , predestination , freewill , the Law , sinne , free remission of sins , iustification by faith onely , imperfection of sanctification , merit , purgatory , and soules departed , about Gods worship , Images , the Masse , communicating in both kinds , and the mysticall receiuing of the Sacrament . That Learned man doth shew , how wee and they doe agree in all these things , which are the most maine points of faith betwixt our aduersaties and vs. And therefore I conclude from this , and all that formerly hath been produced in this fifth Argument , that this our present Religion was heere in this Iland before Austines time . VI. Argument . From God the Author , and continuall Preseruer of our Religion , against all oppositions . THat Religion which is of God , was before Luthers time : for that which is of God , cannot bee ascribed to man ; nor so new , as the late dayes of Luther . For the true Religion is the most ancient , and this is the good way to be found in the old wayes , and not in new inuentions , and new by-paths . But our Religion is of God , which I thus prooue : It was taught by the Prophets and Apostles , messengers of God : the Prophets were sent by him , 2. Chron. 36.16 . 2. King. 17.13 . Ier. 25.4 . by whom God spake , Heb. 1.1 . and they taught and wrote , as the holy Ghost directed them , 2. Pet. 1.21 . 2. Tim. 3.25 . The Apostles were sent of God , Matth. 10.5 . Mark. 16.16 . Gal. 1.1 , 12. and spake , as God by his Spirit directed them , Matth. 10.20 . Ioh. 14.26 . These were the publishers of our Religion , both in the common truthes of our Christianitie , as also in the differences from our aduersaries . And for proofe , wee appeale to the Apostles and Prophets extant writings . Our Religion is written in those holy Scriptures , the Booke of God , as before is prooued . It is propagated and preserued by such meanes , as be ordained of God , of which also before . It is receiued , beleeued , conscience made of it , onely by the operation of the Spirit of God. It bringeth men to the true knowledge of God , to beleeue onely in God , to worship onely God , onely to honour God , and to be ruled onely after the will of God. It s onely vpheld and preserued by Gods , and not by mans power . This will easily bee granted , if men consider what weake meanes , in mans iudgement , hath spred it abroad , and brought it into esteeme with such as professe it truly , ( to wit ) onely preaching , praying , and constantly suffering in the defence thereof . Also , the small number , and meanenesse of the persons for the most part , which haue from the dayes of Iesus Christ , made profession thereof ; and withall , the little worldly policy vsed for helpe to support it . But on the other side , if the enemies thereof be well considered , who haue continued from the beginning of the Gospell , perpetually endeuouring to vndermine our Religion , euery one will yeeld it to be the very hand of God , that maintaineth it . The multitude of them out of the Church are infinite ; as Iewes , Gentiles , Saracens , Turkes , and a world of other Infidels . The Heretikes which haue risen vp , and gone out from the true Church , and haue laboured to shake the very foundation of our Christian Faith , very many . The Hypocrites and prophane , are too many , which professing the same together with vs , yet are deadly enemies to the effectuall operation thereof , denying the power of it , and deriding such as striue to liue strictly , and would expresse the liuely vertue and force of it . What diuisions , what varietie of sects and schismes , haue , and doe yet hinder the growth of our Religion ? And lastly , these last Enemies of it , the Papists , vnder that Antichrist of Rome ; against whom , if God himselfe had not fought , and vpheld our Religion , they had ere this , vtterly extinguished it . And who will denie this , that seriously considereth our simplicitie , and their deepe policie ; our too much distractions , their strong combination ; our small strength , their great power ; our meane estates , their abundance of wealth and treasures ; our more then supine carelesnesse , their continuall watchfulnesse , and daily endeuours , which possibly Satan can put into their hearts , to root out our holy profession ? as by their cruell Inquisition , mercilesse persecution , barbarous Massacres , horrible Treasons , vniust Inuasions , bloody Warres , the neuer to be forgotten Gunpowder plot , killing of Kings , faithlesse and treacherous dealings , playing fast and loose with vs by lying Equiuocations , and mentall Reseruations , in all couenants , promises , and oathes : besides their shamelesse belying our persons , foule and false taxing vs of errours and heresies , imputed to our doctrine and Religion , Libertinisme , Atheisme , and other abominations ; their flattering of Kings , and suggestion of falshoods of disloyaltie against such , as they find best affected to our Religion ; their politike framing of their religion for worldly respects , to euery mans humor , to entangle the sooner mens minds , to get the more to them ; besides all those hellish deuices before mentioned in the first argument , among which is the corrupting of Fathers , and the Writings of learned men , both old and new , that so we might be altogether destitute of all humane testimonies to witnesse with vs , or any helpe of man , but to be left to stand ( as indeed wee doe ) by the hand of God , the onely Author of our Faith and Religion , and the onely blessed Preseruer of the same hitherto , before Luther was borne ; who now also euen in these troublesome times doth keepe it on foote , against all the power and policie of our Enemies , praysed bee his holy Name for euer and euer , Amen . If our Aduersaries thinke , that here is all that can be said for vs , or that onely we can thus prooue our Religion , they are much deceiued : for much more may bee said , and also otherwise , euen by Historie , may our Religion , and the Professours be shewed at large . This , for the present , is onely to confirme such , as in our Church truly feare God , and make conscience of their wayes : for such doers of Gods will shall know , whether this doctrine be of God , or no , Ioh. 7.17 . THE AVTHORS FARTHER HELPE TO stay the honest-hearted Protestant from Apostacie . WEl-disposed Reader , thou hast an answer to the question , Where our Religion was before Luther ? If yet further they aske thee , Where were the Professors thereof also before this time ? Thou mayst thence shape them this answere , Euen where the Apostles and Apostolicall men did teach it , and where Saints professed it , and Martyrs dyed for it . It is not so difficult a matter , as they would make the world beleeue , to bring forth in euery Age the Professours of this our Christian Faith. A harder and a more impossible taske is it , for them to prooue from Christ and his Apostles , who , and where the persons were , that in euery Age made an intire profession of euery point , which now this their present Romish Church teacheth and practiseth . We will doe the former , if they will faithfully performe this latter . They haue set out , as they call it , a Catalogue of chiefe Pastors , Generall Councels , and Catholike Professors , of which they much glory , seducing therewith the simple and vnaduised . They doe begin with Christ , then follow they on with Saint Peter , and other Bishops of Rome on the one side : on the other , they place the Virgin Marie , Iohn Baptist , Saint Iohn the Apostle , with other Apostles and Euangelists : then they reckon vp Christian Churches , as the Romans , Corinthians , Galatians , and the rest , to whom Saint Paul and Saint Peter wrote ; and so they run on along to the end . Now this is it , that thou shouldest demand of them , and put them to proue , whether Christ and his Apostles taught , and all the rest there mentioned , did learne and practise , all that the Church of Rome now doth ? If they can shew this but in the first hundred of yeeres , professe thou to be satisfied , and not to require farther after a continuall succession in the Ages following . Presse this home to them , stand onely vpon this ; this is plaine dealing , to begin with them , where they begin . And if they will not indeuour to satisfie thee in this , certainely the Catalogue of the names of Christ , of his Apostles , and the rest in the Primitiue Church , are put onely in the forefront to coozen thee , if they can . For will they begin it with Christ , Saint Peter , and the rest , and yet not proue them of their present Religion ? If they can , why doe they it not ? Why doe they seeke to put it off ? If they cannot , why claime they these , for the authors and maintainers of this their present Romish Religion ? I say , their present Romish Religion ; because there is a great difference betweene the Religion once at Rome in the Apostles dayes , and the Religion of Rome now ; that of the Church then , this of the Court and faction there now . And here I pray thee wel vnderstand this one thing , to wit , what they meane by their Religion , as we also doe by our Religion ; we neither side took it only for that wherein we both do agree , but chiefely because of the distinct differences thereof either from the other : this obserue , that thou mayst not be deceiued by the Catalogue . And the better to cleare thy iudgement therein , let them shew thee , that Iesus Christ , that also his Apostles , with the rest , in the first hundred of yeeres , taught not onely that , wherein wee and they doe agree ( for so they gaine nothing to themselues , but the Catalogue therein serues for vs , aswell as for them ) but also that they taught and obserued all their now present differences from vs : as for example , let them shew that then was taught , and the Churches learned ; I. To picture the holy Trinitie , to make Images , to worship them , to adore the Virgin Marie , as our Lady , and the Queene of Heauen : also to pray vnto other Saints and Angels , and to adore their Images and Reliques . II. To hold the Scriptures to be imperfect and obscure , that the Apocryphall bookes were of diuine Authoritie , the Latine Translation was to bee authenticall , that Traditions were to be added to perfit the Scriptures , concerning necessarie matters of saluation ; that the authoritie of the holy Scriptures doth depend vpon the authoritie of the Church ; that they are not to be made so free , as to be read and studied of all without licence . III. To hold seuen Sacraments , that Baptisme is to bee administred with hallowed Water , with Chrysme , Salt , Spittle , Coniuring , and other deuices . IV. To beleeue , that the Priest may receiue the Sacrament alone , and yet many other Christians to be there present looking on : that the Bread without the Cup , is to bee giuen to the people : that after the words of consecration , the Bread is turned into the very naturall body of Christ , the accidents of Bread and Wine onely remaining , but not the substance : that it is to be adored and prayed vnto , and to be carried about in Procession : that it is to bee administred with such varietie of garments , alterations of gestures , and change of voyce : that it is a propitiatorie sacrifice for the quicke and the dead . V. To make prayer , to administer the Sacraments , and to say all diuine Seruice in an vnknowne Tongue ; to say the Creed amongst Prayers , the Aue Marie as a prayer , with the Pater noster vpon Beades with Crosses , and that to a certaine number , repeating the Aue Marie fortie times , and the Pater noster foure times , with a Creed at the end : that many thus praying , though they vnderstand not the words which they vtter , yet hauing a good intent , they do a work pleasing to God. VI. To hold the Church of Rome to bee the Mother Church , the onely One , Holy , Catholike , and Apostolike Church : that it could not erre , and that all which should not beleeue euer , as it beleeueth , should not bee held for sound Christians , and such as should not submit to her authoritie , to be held Heretikes . VII . To hold the Pope of Rome to bee Christs Vicar , and Peters successor : that all should depend vpon him , as vpon their Head : that he as Pope cannot erre è Cathedrâ : that to him , as of right , belongeth the spirituall and temporall iurisdiction , and so hath authoritie to make Lawes , to bind conscience , to depose Kings , and to dispose of their Kingdomes : that he and his Clergy are exempt from the authoritie of Secular power . VIII . To hold seuen degrees of Priesthood : that there are sacrifizing Priests , in the time of the Gospell : that all the Clergie are to liue a single life . IX . To set vp high and worldly dignities in the Church , as Kingly Cardinals , Prince-like vnpreaching Prelates and Pastors ouer Congregations , not able to teach them : to allow infinite Orders of Monkes , Friers and Nunnes . X. To beleeue , that there is a Limbus Patrum , a Limbus Infantium , and a place called Purgatorie . In their Catalogue they are to bring Christ , his Apostles , and all the rest therein named , for teachers and professours of these things and the like , else are they not to be reputed of this their present Religion . Vrge them ( friendly Reader ) vnto the proofe of these particular differences ; till then , keepe thy right standing , and be not mooued with a shew of names . In the meane space , that thou mayest be well assured , that thou art a true member of the Catholike Church of Christ , though no Romane Catholike , haue recourse vnto thy baptisme , and the Couenant which God made with thee , and thou with him therein . Aske them ( when any of them goeth about to seduce thee ) whether they thinke , that thou hast receiued true baptisme ? If they say , Yea , ( as they cannot answere truly otherwise , though wee were baptized of very condemned Heretikes , as the Trent Councel decreeth ) then demand of them againe , Whether true baptisme doth admit the baptized into the true Church of God , or no ? If it doe , know of them , that then being thereby receiued into the true Church , why thou and wee so baptized , should not still be of it in their account ? Will them to shew , what we teach and beleeue , differing from them , that hath disannulled our Couenant with God , and how we come to bee out of the Church ? The Romane Catechisme ( which with them is of great authority ) telleth vs , that men are out of the Church , as Infidels , which neuer were in it ; as Heretikes , Schismatiks , and Excommunicated persons , once of it ; whereto may be added , such as be Apostates , wholly renouncing Christ . Taking this for granted , that these be all , and then that we be none of these , it must needs follow , that we are through Baptisme yet in the true Church . I hope , our aduersaries will not say , that wee be either of the first , or last sort : let them cleare vs of that , and wee will well enough acquit our selues of the rest . I. We are not ( though they so call vs commonly ) Heretikes : If they please , let the Catholike Moderator pleade for vs , or let them beleeue their owne moderate Answerer ( to whom my L. of Couentry and Lichfield maketh reply ) who saith , that he supposeth , that no one particular learned Catholike in this Kingdome , doth , or will defend this opinion , That Protestants are Heretikes , and excommunicate . If these on their side will not be sufficient to cleare vs , let vs learne from them , what an Heretike is , and so cleare our selues thereby . An Heretike ( saith the Romane Catechisme ) is he which neglecting the Churches authority , doth maintaine impious opinions obstinately . By this wee cannot be proued to bee Heretikes , this cannot agree to vs. For first , we may demand , What impious opinions either affirmatiue , or negatiue , doe we hold , which they can iustly task vs of ? Let them instance what pleaseth them , and then prooue the same to be heresie : first , by plaine and pregnant places of holy Scripture , which may conuince the conscience of indifferēt men . Secondly , by general Councels , or by any one generall Councell within 600. yeres after Christ ( in which space were most famous & renowned Councels ) that hath condemned any maine doctrine of our Faith for heresie . Thirdly , by the vnanimous consent , and generall voyce of the Greeke and Latine Fathers , for that space condemning the same for heresie , and for an impious opinion . Let them , if they be able , shew , first , in our faith , that wee hold any thing , against any Article of our Creed , which is the summe of our beliefe . Secondly , in our prayers , any thing against the patterne of all true prayers , commonly called , The Lords Prayer . Thirdly , in our deeds , which we teach to be done , or bid to be left vndone , any thing against any of the Commandements in the Decalogue , the rule of our obedience . If they can thus fairely and euidently proceede , they should doe well so to conuince vs. Secondly , if any impious opinions could be found among vs , it must be considered , whether they be broched by priuate persons , or tenents held of the Church in her publike Records : If the former , then are they not the Churches ; if the Church should hold any such , how can they proue , that she maintaineth them obstinately ? For obstinacy is not to be imputed vnto vs , till all lawfull , good , and sufficient meanes haue been vsed to conuince our iudgement , and the same also by such , as haue lawfull and full authority to iudge and determine thereof . But hitherto this hath not been done , neither can it be , but by a lawfull and free generall Councell , which the Conuenticle of Trent was not : till then we are not to be condemned of obstinacy , and so as yet no Heretikes . Thirdly , we neither haue neglected , nor yet doe neglect the true Catholike Churches authority , into which wee are receiued by Baptisme . For we very willingly desire to heare her sentence : but where can that bee , except in a generall Councels determination ? therein to heare the Catholike Church speaking to vs from the Scriptures , we greatly long for , we readily submit vnto . Let her thus speak , that we may know her Iudgement , and we will hearken thereunto . As for the Church of Romes authoritie , we doe not acknowledge it ouer vs , because it is not , nor euer was in her best estate , the Catholike Church , but onely a particular Church , which now also is a party questioned . And therfore her authoritie for her selfe against vs , is no more of vs to be regarded , then by them our Churches authority for her selfe against them . Seeing then that by their definition , wee are not conuinced of heresie , wee are not out of the Church as Heretikes . II. Not as Schismatikes . For albeit we haue no departed from this Romish Church , yet are we no Schismatikes . First , for that we keepe communion with the Catholike Church , into which we by Baptisme were admitted , which is the body of Christ , and wee truly members thereof , in faith and loue , through the worke of Gods Spirit , being built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets , Iesus Christ himselfe being the Corner-stone . Secondly , because this Church of Rome hath falne from the faith and obedience commended by S. Paul , to be in the Church at Rome in his time , as appeareth in many particulars before named , which the Church first planted at Rome , neuer taught , neuer beleeued , nor practised : Therefore are we no Schismatikes for leauing her in those things , wherein she hath left the true and Apostolike Church at the beginning . Thirdly , for that wee doe not breake off from her simply , but in some respect , that is , as farre foorth as she hath forsaken her former selfe ; so that if shee would returne to the Catholike Faith and Religion , and forsake her Trentisme , Iesuitisme , and Popery , the inuentions of her owne , added to that which first she did professe , wee want not charitie towards her , to vnite our selues vnto her againe . For otherwise , neither our true loue to God , nor true loue to his Church , will suffer vs to liue with her , so defiled as she is , in the spirituall bond of sacred loue , which knits the true members of Christ one to another . Heauenly charity , which maketh this vnitie , admitteth not of such things into the vnitie of faith , as bee taught and practised in that Church , both sinfull against God , and pernicious to mens soules , yea , vtter destruction to them , without hearty repentance . Fourthly , wee haue a warrant , yea , a commandement from God , to separate our selues from her , for that she is become the great Whore , and spirituall Babylon , Reuel . 18.4 . This charge of God freeth vs from Schisme : for there is no sin , no Schisme , in that which God commandeth to be done . Fifthly , we by leauing this Romish Church , doe not deuide our selues from the true , Catholike and Apostolike Church , but by this separation doe we indeed returne to the vnitie of it , and to our first blessed estate therein , when first the Gospell was here planted in this Iland by Apostles , or Apostolicall men , which came hither , not from Rome , but from Ierusalem , our Mother Church , where the Lord and his blessed Apostles first began to teach , and erect a Church , which is the Church we returne vnto in doctrine and worship of God : from which Holy , Catholike , and Apostolike Church , wee were drawne by the vsurping and tyrannical power and iurisdiction of the Pope and his faction , and the generall backsliding of this his Church . So as this which they call Schisme , is no Schisme in vs , but a forsaking of schisme in them , and is only a returning vnto , and a recouerie of our selues againe to our former vnion with Christs true Church , beginning at Ierusalem , and planted here many hundred yeeres , before the Monke Austin euer came into England . Sixthly , They are properly called Schismatikes ( saith Aquinas ) which of their owne accord and will , separate themselues from the vnitie of the Church . If this be true in the iudgement of this their owne so greatly honoured Doctor , then certainely wee are no Schismatikes . First , of our owne accord and will we make not a separation , but are inforced therto by the power of Gods commandement , to come out of this Babylon , to auoyde her sinnes , to escape thereby her punishments . She her selfe hath caused deuision , and offences , contrary to the doctrine which shee once receiued , as the Epistles of S. Paul and S. Peter , do in many particulars witnesse against her . The Apostle S. Paul therefore wils vs to auoyde her , and such as cause deuision and offences , contrary to the Apostles doctrine , Rom. 16.17 . It may seeme from hence that a faction begun euen then among you . Secondly , we doe not separate from the Church , that is , from the vniuersall Catholike Church , but from a Church , that is , the particular Church of Rome : for Thomas doth not say , He is a Schismatike , which separateth from a Church , but from the vnitie of the Church , to wit , the Church vniuersall , which is but one . For indeed , no reason can bee giuen , why any should deuide themselues from the true Catholike Church : but good reasons may be giuen , why a particular Church may be , and ought to bee forsaken ; as wee doe giue , for our departing from the Church of Rome : for we are commanded to forsake Idolaters , 1. Cor. 5.11 . Heretikes , Tit. 3.10 . such as bring not the doctrine of Christ , and doe not abide therein , 2. Ioh. 10. and her that is called Babylon , Reuel . 18.4 . Thirdly , before we can be Schismatikes , we must forsake the vnitie of the Church . Now wherein stands this vnitie ? Standeth it only in affection of loue , or also in the faith of the truth ? For both these graces the Apostle commendeth the Churches , Ephes . 1.15 . 2. Thes . 1.3 . and faith is preferred to the first place in both Scriptures . We haue not forsaken the vnitie of the Faith , of which S. Paul speakes , Eph 4.13 . For we teach the doctrine of the Apostles , and no other in any thing , when we differ from this present Church of Rome , which hath lost her first faith , of truth in many things . Now , can true diuine loue be there kept , where faith is lost ? or can there be charitie to vnite , where doctrine doth deuide ? Can light and darkenesse , truth and falsehood cohabite in loue ? Truth and loue onely dwell together ; and for truths sake , loue separateth from falshood , wheresoeuer she finds it . And therefore except they can proue , that we haue lost the vnitie of faith , wee haue not forsaken the vnitie of the Church in loue , as the former reasons shew . To conclude , were the Priests and Leuites Schismatikes , which left the people of Israel , once the people of God in Dauids and Salomons dayes , and many hundred yeeres before , when Idolatrie , vnder pretence to worship no false , but the true God , was set vp , and they not suffered then to do their office vnto the Lord , as their office required ? If they were not , no more are we . For why doe we forsake the Romish Church ? Is it not , because she hath set vp a new manner of seruice vnto God , new kinds of Priests , new Holy-dayes , new Sacraments , new Orders , and will not permit the Lords Seruants and Ministers to do their Offices vnto the Lord , as he hath by his written Word prescribed ? Therefore seeing we are not guiltie of Schisme , we are not as Schismatikes out of the Church , into which by Baptisme wee are receiued . III. Not as excommunicate persons . For if we be neither Heretikes , nor Schismatikes , vpon what other ground will they iudge vs to be proceeded against ? There are other causes , for which men are excommunicate : but in this question our aduersaries cannot pleade any such . Againe , I aske , if wee bee excommunicate , who hath pronounced the sentence ? Is it the Romish Church ? By what authoritie ? Their Church is not the Catholike Church , but only a particular , as ours is , and it is by vs questioned , and therefore in reason it cannot bee both a Partie accused , and also a Iudge against vs in her owne cause . Thirdly , we doe appeale from her vnrighteous iudgement , to a lawfull generall Councell , where , vpon earth , our cause is onely to bee heard and decided lawfully . Till which time , wee ( for any censure of this Church of Rome ) doe remaine in the true Church , into which by Baptisme wee are admitted ; out of which , as yet , we are not lawfully iudged to bee , by any lawfull and supreme authoritie , as either Heretikes , Schismatikes , or as excommunicate persons . Therefore ( Christian-harted Reader ) thou that art a member of the Church of England , though thou beest no Romanist , assure thy soule , that thou art of that Church , which is vndoubtedly a member of the True , Ancient , Catholike , and Apostolike Church , in which abiding , thou maist , through the merits of thy blessed Sauiour , obtaine eternall life , if thou so beleeuing doest demeane thy selfe , as it becommeth a good Christian , and a Protestant in earnest . And for thine owne more certaine assurance and stable abiding , let me aduise thee to a few things . Haue a care to keepe thy Couenant in thy Baptisme , that thou mayst be better perswaded , that God keepes his with thee , and so to be one of his in the true Church . Labour to feare God , for it is the beginning of wisdome , and the secrets of the Lord are with such as feare him , and he will shew them his couenant , Psal . 25.14 . Haue euer a loue of the truth , and God will not giue thee ouer to beleeue lyes : for this is a iudgement befalling such as loue not the truth , beleeue it not , but take pleasure in vnrighteousnesse . Be a doer of the Word , and thou shalt know the doctrine , whether it bee of God , or no. Beware of affected ignorance , and carelesse neglect of knowledge , but vse the meanes appointed to attaine vnto it . Exercise thy selfe much in prayer , beg of God wisdome , and hee will giue it thee ; his Spirit , and he will vouchsafe it thee ; pray against sedition , and God will keepe thee ; frequent the company of such as haue knowledge , the feare of God before them , the loue of the truth in them , and make conscience of their wayes . Aske aduice of faithfull Teachers , listen not to false Teachers , feare to be seduced . And further , that thou mayst both defend the truth , and also be able according to thy measure receiued , to resist the aduersaries ; I. Learne carefully the truthes of God , necessarie to saluation , set downe in holy Scriptures . Such truths are very manifestly and plainely deliuered , either in expresse termes , or by an vndoubted consequent drawne from thence : and all such necessarie points as concerne all , are written in the Scriptures , as their Bellarmine confesseth . With these Scriptures acquaint thy selfe , and being an ordinarie Christian , doe not trouble thy selfe about obscure places : for plaine and easie places will bee sufficient to confirme thy faith in any thing necessarie for thee , to beleeue and practize in the way of saluation . II. Be well grounded in the Catechisme , the parts whereof are the Creed , the Lords Prayer , the Decalogue , and the doctrine of the Sacraments : for these are the compendium , or short summe of all Christianitie . These well vnderstood , will furnish thee with reasons to withstand seducers . There is not any thing of which they shall speake , but the same may be brought to some head in Catechisme , as either concerning Faith , and so referred to the Creed , or concerning Prayer , and so referred to the Lords Prayer , or concerning obedience , and so referred to the Decalogue , or ten Commandements , or else touching the Sacraments , the Seales of our Faith. III. Adde to these , certaine considerations , by which thou mayest defend the truth , and ouerthrow falshood , as the common law of Nature , common reason , right vse of senses , common experience , common equitie , common charitie , common honestie , the witnesse of knowne Martyrs ; whereto adde the corruption of our nature , allowing or disliking of any thing . By the plaine euidence of Scripture , by the Catechisme , and by these considerations , mayst thou trie all things , which be necessarie for thee to stand vpon . If a seducer come to thee , and that he will needs deale with thee , obserue two things ; first , not to regard what he saith ; if it be not about necessarie points . Secondly , see that his confirmation , or confutation , bee onely by either some , or all these three aforenamed ; to wit , plaine Scriptures , the parts of the Catechisme , and those considerations , from whence if hee cannot proue his assertions , beleeue him not . If he begin to tell thee of Councels , ancient Fathers , and the Churches custome in all Ages : answere him , first , that the three former are knowne to thee , the Bible common at hand , the Catechisme in thy remembrance , and the consideration of such as are without difficultie : but as for these three last , great reading , and learning , and knowledge in Historie , are required to vnderstand them well , and to cite them truly . They are for the best learned of the world , and not for any of the common sort : ordinarie men cannot iudge aright by them , neither will any such presume , to thinke such abilitie to be in them , if they would take notice of diuers things concerning Councels , Fathers , and the Churches custome . I. Touching Councels , they must know , that they are not only subiect to errour , but also haue erred : that they haue contradicted one another : that some of them haue been carried by a strong faction : that ancient Fathers would not rest euer vpon the sole authoritie of Councels : that Papists themselues , though they pretend them , yet doe not wholly resigne their iudgement vnto them : that there are some counterfeite and forged Councels , and counterfeite Canons added to true Councels . Can an ordinarie man then iudge of these things ? And if he cannot , let him not be deceiued by pretence of them . II. Touching the ancient Fathers , this they must know , that they are found to be of differing opinions , and had contentions among themselues : that they held not their owne iudgements infallible , nor submitted to one another otherwise then men godly and learned doe now , but onely as by good reason and authoritie they were ouercome : that they haue erred ; and this is acknowledged by most learned men on both sides : that our aduersaries of the greatest note , do often shake off their authoritie , when they are against them : that of the Fathers writings , some are doubted of , some are corrupted , and many counterfeites are put out vnder their names : that the iudgement of all the Fathers cannot be had for all our controuersies . These things being so , how idle is it then for ordinarie men to be talking of Fathers , of the opinion of all the Fathers , or for any such men to be carried away with such a sound , which is not possible for them to vnderstand , seeing our aduersaries alleage them for their selues , and we more truly for our selues ? III. Concerning the Churches custome and path in euerie age , let them consider , that this is very vncertaine . Historians haue not alwaies in euery relation bin found faithfull : that euerie Age hath not had in it such as haue truly written of the Church : that a man may spend his whole life , in seeking out the whole Churches course , and yet not be able to find it out . I suppose , I erre not , if I say , that all men now liuing , cannot do it exactly in euery Age. And therefore it s but a gulling flourish of our aduersaries , to boast of the whole Church in euery Age , and yet withall , so boasting fraudulently to meane their owne particular Romane Church . By alleaging then these arguments , to wit , Councels , Fathers , and the generall custome of the whole Church , the conscience of an ordinarie Christian cannot bee throughly satisfied , his knowledge cannot herein bee certaine to conuince his iudgement , these are beyond his reach and capacitie . Be aduised therefore not to be drawne with these reasons , which are to thee so vncertaine , but rest vpon the other which be plaine and easie , within thy capacitie , and certaine vnto thee ; by which thou mayst , through Gods helpe , maintaine that which thou professest , and confute the aduersaries vntruths , or at least , gather thence such strength , as they shall not easily draw thee to beleeue them : as for instance , in some particulars I wil shew thee . They say , that the Pope is the head of the Catholike Church . There is no plaine Scripture for this . We find Iesus Christ to be called the Head of the Church , but no other . It s no Article of our Creed ; therefore thou art not bound to beleeue it . But I adde this , that what we beleeue , is inuisible , Heb. 11.1 . and not seene , 2. Cor. 5.7 . If therefore the Pope be the Head , there must be a visible head , of an inuisible body . Againe , the head immediately giues life , motion , and direction to its true body , which the Pope cannot doe to Christs Church . It s also vnreasonable to thinke , two heads to bee for one body ; whether one besides another , or one vnder another , it is a monstrousity . Common experience testifieth against the Popes inabilitie to performe the true office of the true Head to Gods Church . They say , that he cannot erre . Let it be taken in the best sense they can conceiue it , there is no plaine Scripture which giueth this , to any one particular person . It s no Article of our Creed to beleeue it , experience hath found him to haue erred foully . They say , that after the words of consecration , the bread is turned into the very body of Christ , and the wine into his bloud , so as Iesus Christ is there corporally , as he was borne of the Virgin Marie , vnder the accidents of bread and wine . In holy Scripture there is no such thing taught , there is a sacramentall phrase , This is my Body ; and the like vsed in the Sacraments of the old Testament , This is my Couenant , Gen. 17.10 . This is the Lords Passeouer , Exo. 12.11 . The Rocke was Christ , 1. Cor. 10.4 . but yet no turning one substance into another . The Creed teacheth vs to belieue him to be in heauen , and thence to expect his comming , when hee shall appeare to iudge the quicke and the dead . This transubstantiation therefore is no part of our Faith. It s against reason , for a true body , and continued quantitie , to be in two places , yea , in a thousand mouthes at once . The Angels reason vnto Marie , Mat. 28.6 . confuteth this grosse opinion ; for he said to her , when she with the other Marie came to seeke Christ ; He is not here , for hee is risen : that is , He is not in this place , because he is else-where in another . If Christ could haue been in two places at once , the Angels argument had been of no force ; remember that this is an Angell-reason , which know wee how to reason truly . This opinion is against our sences , we see not , feele not , nor taste not flesh and blood . Now God neuer deluded mans sences , whensoeuer he turned one substance into another : Moses staffe was made a Serpent , dust was Lice , the water blood , and water was wine , and all these sensible . No Scripture , nor any other approued testimony can be produced , to shew vndoubtedly the contrarie . Yea , this is certaine , that the true body of Christ is discernable by sense to be a true bodie wheresoeuer it is ; therefore when the Disciples doubted at his sudden appearing , he said , It is I my selfe . And to proue this , he willeth them to vse their senses , saying , Handle me , and see ; that so they might discerne his true body , flesh and bones : and so might it be in the Sacrament , if indeed and truth he were there corporally . It hath been witnessed against by the blood or many Martyrs : but where be so many in defence of our aduersaries grosse opinion ? Which of them haue euer hitherto , or dare to suffer for this their opinion , as ours haue done against it ? This opinion of our aduersaries is to be detested for , first , the falshood thereof ; secondly , for the grosse idolatry committed through it , euen a piece of bread adored for Almightie Iesus Christ himselfe . Thirdly , for the bloodie crueltie , which for the vpholding of it , hath been done with furious rage vpon the bodies of Gods Saints , because they would not beleeue this false doctrine , nor commit this abominable idolatrie . Fourthly , all such as thus beleeue , sinne not only in the act damnably ( for Idolaters perish euerlastingly , Reuel . 21.8 . ) but also irrepentantly , because they be perswaded , that in so beleeuing and worshipping , they doe not onely not sin , but doe a most excellent worke , and meritorious seruice to God. They teach , that there is a Purgatorie , a place of torment . In holy Scriptures we find plainely , Heauen , Earth , Hell , & Sea ; but no plaine name of Purgatorie , nor Limbus Patrum , nor Limbus Infantium . In the Decalogue we find Heauen , Earth , and Waters vnder the Earth ; and in the Lords Prayer , Heauen and Earth ; in the Creed , Heauen , Earth and Hell ; but none of the other deuised and faigned places . This Purgatory for satisfaction is against common equity : for they say , the sinne is pardoned by Christ : and can then in equity the partie be punished ? A Creditor forgiues freely to a man all his debt : can he then with equitie after lay him in Gaole to make any satisfaction for the same ? They say , that Images may be set vp to be adored . The Scriptures are plaine against them , Deut. 4.15 , 19. Esay 40.18 . Act. 17.20 . Rom. 1.23 . The second Commandement , in the Decalogue , forbids them , which our aduersaries bid from the people in their vulgar Catechismes . Our corrupt nature is apt to these things , and therefore the lesse to be liked of . They teach to pray vnto the Virgin Marie , to Saints and Angels . The Scriptures afford no precept for this , nor any euident example : prayers there are taught to be made vnto God : Angels are not to be worshipped , Col. 2.18 . Reuel . 19.10 . & 22.9 . The Lords Prayer , the perfect rule of prayer , teacheth vs to pray to God our Father in Heauen , whensoeuer we pray : now can wee say to the Virgin Marie , to Saint , or Angell , Our Father which art in Heauen ? Can we pray to any of them , and say , Thy Name be hallowed , thy Kingdome come , thy will be done in Earth , as it is in Heauen ? Can we pray any one of them , to giue vs daily bread , to forgiue vs our sinnes , to deliuer vs from euill ? Can we ascribe to any one of them , and say , Thine is Kingdome , power and glory for euer ? Yet this prayer warrants vs , that to whom in Heauen we may pray , to him may we say all this : but if not to the Virgin Marie , not to Saint , nor Angell , then may wee not pray to them by any warrant of this prayer . Our Creed teacheth vs to beleeue in none , but God the Father , Sonne , and holy Ghost . Now the Scripture plainely telleth vs , that wee cannot pray to any , but in whom we beleeue , Rom. 10.14 . Therefore then not to the Virgin Marie , nor to Saint nor Angell , because we are not to beleeue in them . They tell thee , that thou must beleeue the Romane-Catholik Church , and to be also a member thereof , else thou canst not be saued . The Scriptures tell vs plainely , that God added to the Church such as should be saued , Acts 2.47 . but not a word there of the Romane Church . In our Creed , we are taught to beleeue the Catholike Church , and that we be members of it , but to bee of any Romane Catholike Church , is no Article of our Creed . Besides the speech is absurd , and it is against reason , to call a particular Church the generall , or the generall a particular , as the Church of Rome in the best estate of it neuer was other . And can the obiect of faith be the obiect of sight , as it is the obiect of faith ? Now we beleeue the Catholike Church , but the Papists tell vs , that their Church is euer visible to the eye . This also which they say , is against common charitie : for must all out of the Church of Rome , be without hope of saluation ? In the planting of the Gospell , there was a Church at Ierusalem , before any at Rome , and many Churches planted by Saint Paul , which neuer had dependance vpon the Church of Rome ; many Churches in the East , and other parts of the World , which are not within the Romane iurisdiction , nor doe acknowledge it ; must needs all these be without saluation , because the Romane Pope is not domineering ouer them ? Now God forbid . They will tell thee , that thou must be able to shew thy Church , and the professors therof in euery age , else thou art not of the true Church . But the holy Scriptures neuer bound any to such a taske , neither Christ , nor his Apostles in all the new Testament euer charged any Christian Church , much lesse any beleeuer with this . It is an Article of thy Faith , to beleeue that there is a Church of God , here and there dispersed abroad in the world . This is a man bound to beleeue , but not that euery one , or any other for him , should be able to make a Catalogue of all that went before in the same profession in euery Age. One ignorant of this , may yet be of the true Church , neither shal the ignorance thereof damne him . They will tell thee , that there are some sinnes in Nature veniall in themselues , not deseruing eternall death . The Scripture teacheth otherwise , Rom. 6.23 . The wages of sinne is death , no exception of any at all . Yea , the consent of sinne is worthy of death , Rom. 1.23 . In the Lords Prayer , when we craue pardon of our trespasses without exception , wee thereby acknowledge , that euery kind of trespasse offendeth God , standeth need of forgiuenesse , and therefore what else would follow , if he did not forgiue it , but death ? This false distinction giueth libertie to our corrupt nature to sinne , as experience tels euery of vs , euen in our aduersaries , wallowing licenciously in their supposed veniall sinnes . It may seeme vnreasonable , if there be sinnes veniall in their owne nature , that such a horrible scorching fire , as they make that in Purgatorie to bee , should bee prepared to plague soules for the same . The greatest torments in the world , as they say , are not comparable to the torments there : How can it then be possibly imagined , that veniall sinnes , which , as they say , doe not breake friendship with God , should be so terribly punished , by way of satisfaction , and yet God remaine to him , who is so punished , a sure friend ? They teach , that a man hath power to doe Gods will , and to auoide euill , and not be ouercome thereof , if he will. The Scriptures tell vs , that it is God that workes the will and the deed , Phil. 2.13 . and maketh all our sufficiencie to be of him , 2. Cor. 3.5 . In the Lords Prayer , wee are taught to beg of God abilitie to doe his will , and his grace , to deliuer vs from euill : vnder will , is comprehended all good , and vnder euill , is contained whatsoeuer is sinfull , so as it s not in vs to doe good , nor to auoyde euill , but both is Gods worke in vs. Euery man feeleth this inabilitie in himselfe by experience ; yea , these also which doe maintaine this power in man , if they would confesse it . And why are they not all most holy , if they haue this power ? Their damnation is more iust , when they sinne in any measure , then such as want this power , though they fall by infirmitie into greater sinnes . They teach , that a man may fulfill the whole Law , and so merit . The Scripture teacheth otherwise , Luke 17.10 . Eccles . 7.20 . Prou. 20.9 . Psal . 130.3 . Iob 9.20 . 1. Ioh. 1.8 . Iam. 3.2 . In the Lords Prayer , we aske all of vs forgiuenesse . In the Creed wee are taught , not to dreame here of perfection , or of merit ; but to beleeue the forgiuenesse of sinnes . And in reading the Law truly vnderstood , it doth cause a mans conscience , euen in the best , to acknowledge himselfe guiltie . I might here goe thorow many other points which they teach , to which from either plaine Scriptures , or from the Catechisme , or from these considerations , thou maist make answere in thine owne defence . But yet for all this ( though thou also hast gotten helpe to stand for thy selfe ) beware of Seducers , run not easily into disputes with them , but rather put them ouer to learned men to be answered . It is not good for Eue for to fall into conference with the subtill Serpent . Be bold vpon these grounds with ordinarie Papists , if they will attempt to set vpon thee : but consider thy abilitie , presume not aboue thy measure , continue in Gods Word , and the Lord will vphold thee . To whose blessed guide and Fatherly protection , I commit thee . Pray we all continually . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A73011-e320 1. Cor. 2.11 . 1. Cor. 2.14 . Rom. 8.7 . Verse 5. * Origen vpon Numb . Tertul. de resur . Carnis . Epiphaen de Haeres . lib. 1. cap. 23 , 24 38. Irae . li. 1. cap. 23. Tertul. de praescript . A●bana . orat . 2. contra Arianos . Ier. 36. 2. Thes . 2. In the Popes Bull before the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent . a De Eccles . pa. 308. b Apol. Catho . cap. 66. c Lib. de Antichrist . c. 24. d In his second pillar of Pop. e Against Hart. cap. 8. diuis . 4. pa. 567.568.569 . & 572. f Ca. 1. vers . 25. pa. 200 Lib. de Antichr . cap. 6. to cap. 33. Lib. de eccles . cont . 2. quaest . 5. pa. 300. & 308. Obiect . Answ . Obiect . Answ . De continu . & statu Ecclesiae . See Doct. Hall his peace of Rome . In his Symphonia Cathol . In his reformed Catholike . Cambden in Brit. p 40.157 . * Harison before , Hollins . Chron. Midleton in his Papistomastix . pag 202. See the Protestants Apol. vnder Brerelys name . Brerely his Appeale , Trac . 1. Sect. 2. pag. 69. Beda histor . lib. 2. cap. 2. Beda lib. 2. ca. 4. Bish . Vshers letter , pag. 80.81.82.83 . Galfridus Monumentisis Centur . 6 p. 689. Beda lib. 3. Hist . cap. 3.6 . Ibi. c. 21.22.24 . Bish . Vsher in his late Epistle added to Sir Chr. Sybthorps booke . Se Archb. Parker his booke de anti . Brit. cap. 18. Se Bishop Morton his Catholike Appeale , lib. 1. cap. 2. sect . 8. pag. 11. Ibidem lib. 1. ca. 12. sec . 1.2 . See Catol . Test . veritat . pag. 26. to 69. last edition , 1608. See the Epist . in the booke of the Lawes of the Saxon Kings , in the Saxons language . Also in Fox , Acts and Monum . fol. 69. For the authoritie of this Epistle , I take it , as they approue of it , a witnesse good against themselues . See for all these in Cat. Test . verit . lib. 6. p. 558. See for these Bish . Mortons Catho . Appeal . l. 1. c. 2.3.4.4 . Doct. Feild of the Church , b. 5. cap. 34 Catol . Test . verit . lib. 1. p. 93. See his Epistle before named . Ier. 6.14 . The Papist cannot make a true Catalogue from Christ , of their present Religion . What to demand of them , and to presse them vnto . What are the things , which in their Catalogue from Christ , they must proue those in the first Age to haue maintained . Protestants are of the Catholike Church , though no Romanists . In Can. 3. de bapt . Part. 1. Act. 9. cap 10. q. 8. What sorts are out of the Church . Protestants no Heretikes . In his booke of equiuocation . Part. 1. Art. 9. cap. 10. q. 1. Protestants hold no impious opinions condemned for heresie . Protestants are not conuicted of obstinacie . See the Historie of the Councell of Trent . Protestants do not neglect the authority of the Catholike Church . Protestants are no Schismatikes . Eph. 3.20 . Let them answer the books which prooue her the great Whore , Babylon , and the Pope Antichrist , if any denie these things . In summa part . 2. cap. 39. de Schismate . Reuel . 18.4 . See for these Catal. Test . verit . pa. 27. to 70. in the last Edition . 2. Ch. 11.13 , 14 Protestants not excommunicate persons . How a man must be qualified , which wil continue in the truth . Prou. 1. 2. Thes . 2.10 , 11 , 12. Ioh. 7.17 . Iam. 1.5 . Luk. 11.13 . By what helpes to oppose the aduersaries . Plaine Scriptures . Aug. l. 2. de . doct . Chr. cap. 6. Chrysost . 3. hom . in 2. Thes . Lib. 4. de verbo Dei non scripto , cap. 11. The parts of the Catechisme . Nine considerations . Obserue two things in the aduersaries dealing with thee . Three things beyond ordinarie mens capacitie , which they must take heed , they be not deceiued by . Ordinarie me● cannot iudge of Councels , and why ? Not of the allegation of Fathers , and why ? Not of the allegation of the Churches custome , and why ? Against the Popes headship . Against his vnerring spirit . Against transubstantiation . Exod. 4.3 . & 7.10 , 20 , 21 , 24. & 8.17 . Ioh. 2.9 , 10. Luke 24.39 . The euill of the doctrine of transubstantiation . Against Purgatorie . Against Images , and their worship . Against praying to Saints . Matth. 6. Against the Romanists , condemning all that are not of their Church . Against their vrging as necesary , to make a Catalogue of our professors in all Ages . Against their error of veniall sinnes . Against mans power to doe well . Against their error of mans abilitie to fulfil the Law.