A vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the Church of England in reply to a pamphlet abusively intituled, A clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the Protestant rule of faith, &c. Williams, John, 1636?-1709. 1688 Approx. 120 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2008-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A66432 Wing W2739 ESTC R10348 12927271 ocm 12927271 95556 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A66432) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 95556) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 991:29) A vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the Church of England in reply to a pamphlet abusively intituled, A clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the Protestant rule of faith, &c. Williams, John, 1636?-1709. [2], 41, [1] p. Printed for Ric. Chiswell ..., London : 1688. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Attributed to John Williams. cf. NUC pre-1956. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Williams, John, 1636?-1709. -- Answer to the address presented to the ministers of the Church of England. Church of England -- Controversial literature. Catholic Church -- Doctrines. Clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the Protestant rule of faith. 2007-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-07 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-09 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2007-09 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A VINDICATION OF THE ANSWER TO THE POPISH ADDRESS Presented to the Ministers of the Church of England . In Reply to a Pamphlet abusively Intituled , A Clear Proof of the Certainty and Vsefulness of the Protestant Rule of Faith , &c. IMPRIMATUR , Liber cui Titulus , [ A Vindication of the Answer to the Address , &c. ] Guil. Needham RR. in Christo P. ac D. D. Wilhelmo Archiep. Cant. à Sacr. Domest . April 26. 1688. LONDON : Printed for Ric. Chiswell , at the Rose and Crown in St. Paul's Church-Yard . M DC LXXXVIII A VINDICATION OF THE ANSWER To the POPISH ADDRESS , &c. A Clear Proof of the Certainty and Usefulness of the Protestant Rule of Faith , Scripture , after the Help of Ministerial Guides , finally Interpreted by each Man 's private Sense . A Title seemingly belonging to a Protestant Book , and a Book wrote by a Protestant , if the Title and Book do agree : But that they are so far from , that if Truth and Ability had been on the Author's side , it might have been more truly call'd , with respect to his Design , A clear Disproof of the Certainty , &c. But why so much Caution ? Why is not the Address or Answer to it , so much as named in the Title ? We are left to guess ; and because every man may in such a case use his liberty , I could upon Perusal of his Book , guess at no reason sooner , than that the Prover was not very confident of the sufficiency of his Defence , and might by such a clandestine Title , secure himself against a further Reply ; unless his Adversary had nothing else to do than to read all the Pamphlets printed by H. H. ; or some unlucky Chance should make the Discovery . And to say the truth , the Prover might have succeeded in his Design , and have triumphed in the Victory he had thus secretly stollen , had not a little Accident , though somewhat late first , brought it under his Adversary's eye . This proof is drawn from the Answer to the Address presented to the Ministers of the Church of England . The Author thereof had required that clear and plain Texts of Scripture be offer'd , which interpreted in the Protestant way , by those who receive it thus expounded for their whole Rule of Faith , should so prove the two principal Articles of Christian Belief , the Trinity and the Incarnation of Christ ; as also the Obligation of keeping holy the Sunday , and not Saturday , as one of the Commandments seems to require ; and that so convincingly , that a Christian might ground on them his Faith. Interpreted , I say , in the Protestant-way , without any deciding Church-Authority when doubts arise about the sense of the Letter . The Prover's Design is to expose the Protestant Rule of Faith , and to that end , because he had no better way , is forced to Misrepresent it . For thus he saith , Scripture interpreted in the Protestant way , is received by them , thus expounded , for their whole Rule of Faith. But he well knew , or should know , that the Scripture is with Protestants , a Rule of Faith as it 's the Word of God , and their whole Rule of Faith , as it 's the only Word of God , and so is as uncapable of taking in any humane Exposition to be a part of that Rule , as it is of any new Revelation . That is , the Scripture depends not upon the sense given it by any man , or Order of men for its being thus a Rule , but upon its own Authority . But he ventures a little further by way of Explication . Scripture , saith he , interpreted in the Protestant way , without any deciding Church-Authority , when doubts arise about the Sense of the Letter . But supposing there are no doubts about the sense of the Letter ; then it seems there is in that case no use of any such deciding Authority , and that we may be certain of the sense of the Letter without such Authority . If so , then it would be known of what kind that Certainty is , which may be attained without such Authority , and whether it be not attained by the use of Reason and Understanding ; and so is at last resolved into what he decries , Private Sense . But put the case as he would have it , and supposing there be a doubt about the sense of the Letter , I demand whether we may not by the like use of our Reason , arrive to the same sort of certainty in the things we now doubt of , as we have arrived to in the things we are at present certain of , without any deciding Church-Authority ? As for example : Suppose a doubt ariseth about this deciding Church-Authority it self , how shall the doubt be decided ? If we seek to the deciding Church-Authority , that is the thing in question ; if we repair to the Scripture , the Sense of that is to be declared and determined by the deciding Church-Authority ; and if we take any other measures for understanding it , we fall into the dangerous and abhorr'd extreme , of finally interpreting it by private Sense : So that either the matter is uncapable of proof , and must be taken for granted ; and there is a deciding Church-Authority because there is so : or else if it be to be proved , it must be by the same way that other things are proved in , and that is by producing the Reasons for it , and according to the Judgment made upon it thereby , it 's ultimately to be decided . And then farewel to the deciding Church-Authority , when in a matter of so great Consequence , and the first Point to be resolved in , it must be submitted to each mans private Sense . The Addresser holds , ( if he be a Catholick ) That Scripture , rightly understood , is a Rule of Faith ; That the Gospel revealed by Christ , preached by the Apostles , and preserved by the Catholick Church , is so much our whole Rule of Faith , that we own with Tertullian , we need not be curiously searching since Christ , nor further inquisitive since the Gospel was preached . No new Revelations , no new Articles , being received as of Catholick Faith ; but those Truths only retained , which the Church proposes as delivered to her by the Apostles , her whole authority being ever employed , as Pope Celestine delivers it to the Council of Ephesus , in providing that what was delivered , and preserved in a continual Succession from the Apostles , be retained ; so that nothing is of Faith , but what God revealed by the Prophets and the Apostles , or what evidently follows from it ; the Catholick Church ever handing it to us , and declaring it to be so . The Gospel revealed by Christ , preached by the Apostles , and preserved by the Catholick Church , is their whole Rule of Faith. — No new Revelations , no new Articles being received as of Catholick Faith. What seemingly more Orthodox , and spoken more like a Protestant ? But our Author for fear of Correction , tempers it immediately with some of their own Ingredients , here and there cautiously applied . As for example ; if we ask , Whether the Scripture be their whole Rule of Faith ? He answers , Scripture rightly understood , is a Rule of Faith ; the Gospel revealed by Christ , and preserved by the Catholick Church , is their whole Rule of Faith. Is it asked again , Whether there are no new Revelations , no new Articles received as of Catholick Faith ? He answers , These Truths are only received which the Church proposes as delivered to her by the Apostles . The meaning of which Phrases , the Gospel rightly understood , and preserved by the Church , and the Truths which the Church proposes as delivered , is , that which is thus preserved , proposed , delivered , and interpreted by the Church , is as much the Rule as the Scripture , and that without this Tradition and Exposition of the Church , the Scripture is in Bellarmine's Phrase , but a partial Rule . Scripture thus interpreted is a Catholick Rule of Faith ; the Addresser therefore meant nothing less than to diminish its Divine Authority ; his design was to preserve it , and that each mans private sense might not sacrilegiously pretend to be that Word of God , which , as St. Peter minds us , is not of private Interpretation ; 'T is not against the Authority or Use of Scripture he writ , but against the Protestants unjust and insignificant method of using it . I will here make good the Charge , ( hoping , that when he thinks fit , he will much more fully perform it ) by the very answers given to his Questions , which I shall set down in that Order and Sense in which the Answerer construed them . Here he tells us , 'T is not against the Authority or use of Scripture the Addresser writ . The Divine Authority of Scripture consists in its being of Divine Revelation , and the reason for which it was revealed , is for the use , instruction , and salvation of mankind . But if it be insufficient for attaining that end , and either is wanting in what is neeessary , or is writ in a way so obscure and dubious that it 's not to be understood by those for whom it was written , it 's certainly a Revelation unworthy of God , and a considerable argument against its Divine Authority . And therefore he that undertakes to prove this , must , if he be in earnest , have a very mean opinion of that Divine Book , and designs to bring others to the like opinion of it . But this is the apparent design of the Addresser , who argues all along against the sufficiency and perspicuity of Scripture , even in those points which our Author owns to be the two principal Articles of Christian Belief , the Trinity and the Incarnation of Christ ; clearly giving away the Cause to the Arians and Nestorians , and frankly acknowledging , nay venturing in his way to prove , that the Texts usually insisted on by the Orthodox in proof of those Articles , are not sufficient for it . So that in conclusion , if the Scripture be so perplex'd and obscure , so doubtful and ambiguous , so unintelligible and insufficient a Rule , they may as well lay aside the Scripture , as that Father did the obscure Poet , with an , If thou art not to be understood , thou art not fit to be read . And yet after all this charge insinuated all along in the Address against the Scripture , 'T is not yet against the Authority or Vse of it he writ . What then did he write against ? It was against the Protestants unjust and insignificant method of using it ; and that each mans private sense might not sacrilegiously pretend to be that word of God , which , as St. Peter minds us , is not of private Interpretation . I must confess if each or any mans private sense be pretended to be the Word of God , it 's both Vnjust and Sacrilegious , since nothing can be the Word of God , but what is by his immediate Inspiration . But where are they that thus pretend ? What reason is there for this charge ? These are things he takes for granted , but insinuates that this is done by the Protestants , who interpret Scripture by their own private sense . But why will this any more prove that because they interpret Scripture by their own sense , they pretend their sense to be the Word of God ; than it follows that those that resolve all into a deciding Church-Authority , do therefore pretend that the sense given by that Authority is the Word of God ? For I presume after all , that they will not dare to say such their Interpretations are as much the Word of God , as the Word is , which they are the Interpretations of . However , he intimates , it 's Sacrilegious to interpret Scripture by each mans private sense , when St. Peter minds us the Word of God is not of private Interpretation . But surely the Apostle doth not therein include the using and understanding of Scripture by private persons , as if that was forbidden , when he tells them they did well to give heed to it , ver . 19. Neither did he suppose they were uncapable of understanding it , when he calls it a light , and unto which they were to give heed till the day dawn , &c. Nor farther will the Apostles Argument admit of any such Exposition , which is thus , Ye ought to give heed to the Scripture , for it 's not of private Interpretation ; for holy men of God spake as they were moved ; that is , Scripture is the Interpretation of God's will , the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost ; and though wrote by men , is not of humane invention , nor was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of their own motion , nor an explication of their own mind , but of God's . Of this see a late Book called , Texts of Scripture cited by Papists , &c. Pag. 35. The Prover now falls on in earnest , and with great resolution saith , he will make good the charge of the Protestants unjust and insignificant Interpretation of Scripture , by the very Answers given to the Addresser's Questions , and that he will set them down in that order and sense in which the Answerer construed them . I wish he had added too , in his own words ( as the Answerer did by him . ) For I find no great reason to trust him either as to order or sense . Qu. 1. Whether all things necessary to Salvation are contained in Scripture ? Ans . Scripture must contain these Necessaries . All Catholics ever owned what St. Augustin teaches , That all things which concern Faith and Manners of Life are found in those things which are plainly contained in Scripture ; So that , as St. Gregory expresses it , God needs speak to us ▪ no more by any new Revelation . For , as the same St. Augustin observes in the Question betwixt Him and the Donatists , about true Baptism , which he held absolutely necessary to Salvation , Tho we have no proof in this case from holy Scripture , yet we follow the truth of holy Scripture even in this case , when we do what the Vniversal present Church approves of , which Church is commended by the Authority of the very Scripture . All true Catholics without doubt ever owned what St. Austin teaches , and that not so much because St. Austin teaches it , as that what he herein taught , is true . But ( to use our Authors words , pag. 7. ) I wonder how this man was so confident as to name St. Austin , and quote this place , after the Answerer , and then to declare all Catholicks ever owned what he teaches . Since I have good reason to question , whether our Author be of that number . And that , 1. Because all true Catholicks ever held the Doctrines of the Trinity , and the Incarnation of our Blessed Saviour , to be things which concern Faith , and as such , to be plainly contained in Scripture . But our Author on the contrary , saith these are not plainly contained in Scripture ; and then either according to St. Austin , they should not concern Faith , or our Author is none of those Catholicks that own what St. Austin teaches . 2. The Church of Rome ( which whatever others think , I question not but the Prover holds to be Catholick ) owns not what St. Austin teaches ; for she affirms there is a Word Unwritten as well as Written , and that this Unwritten Word is as necessary as the Written : Forasmuch as there are things relating to Faith and Manners in the Unwritten Word that are not contained in the Written . But here our Author has prevented me , for he will prove this also to be the sense of St. Austin , and both consistent ; as thus , All Catholicks own what St. Augustin teaches , that all things which concern Faith and Manners are plainly contained in Scripture . — For as the same St. Augustin observes about true Baptism , which he held absolutely necessary to Salvation , that we have no proof in this case from Scripture ; Yet , &c. That is , the Scripture contains all things necessary relating to Faith and Manners ; for we have no proof from Scripture for a point absolutely necessary to Salvation : which is , as if he should say , England is a Country that abounds in all things necessary to Life ; for it wants Bread which is absolutely necessary to it . This is in our Author's phrase , Pag. 5. a special piece of Logic. I will for the honour of St. Austin , and in charity to our Author , suppose he turned not to the place in that Father , when besides this impertinence he charges upon that Learned Writer , he reads , we have no proof , for we have no example ; and speaks so darkly of the case it self . I will direct him to it , it 's Contr. Crescon . l. 1. c. 32. let him read it at his leisure , and compare it with Ch. 33. And in the mean time I shall furnish him with another saying of the same Father , Whether concerning Christ , or his Church , or any other thing which belongs to Faith and Life , I will not say , If we , who are not to be compared with him that said , Though We ; but if an Angel from heaven shall teach besides what ye have received in the Prophetical or Evangelical Writings , let him be accursed . But the case in this first Question , as it appears stated by the Addresser , is , Whether all things necessary to Salvation are immediately and expresly contain`d in Scripture , or drawn thence by an evident Consequence ? Our Answerer proves they are so , by the three following Texts ; his Proofs I will set in a due form , that their force may lie open to all . The first Text is taken out of Joh. 20. 31. where the Evangelist having premised , ( v. 30. ) Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his Disciples , which are not written in this Book ; says , v. 31. These ( which he had set down ) are written that you may believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God , and that believing you may have Life in his Name . Now what Conclusion can be drawn from this Text to our present purpose , but one , in one of these two forms ? First thus : The signs set down by St. John , Ch ▪ 20. are sufficient to make us believe that Jesus is Christ the Son of God ; but precisely to believe that Jesus is Christ the Son of God , is all that is necessary to have Life in his name , or to Salvation ; therefore the 20th . Chapter of St. John contains all things necessary to Salvation . Or else thus , in the Answerer's words : All that is as sufficient in its kind to beget Faith in us , as Faith is to save us , contains all things necessary to Salvation ; But the 20th Chapter of St. John`s Gospel , as it appears by ver . 31. is as sufficient to beget Faith in us ; therefore that 20th Chapter contains all things necessary to Salvation . A special piece of Logic ! However his Conclusion eases the Members of his Congregation from the Obligation of reading any part of Scripture besides the 20th Chapter of St. John 's Gospel . Our Author from his love to Logic , and his Skill in it , undertakes to set the Answerer's Proofs in a due form . But by his leave , I shall put in a small Charge or two against it . As The first Charge I have against what he calls a setting the Proofs in a due form , is , that his Conclusion is false in its form , as his Syllogism has four Terms in it : For saith he , The signs set down by St. John 20. are sufficient to make us believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God ; but Precisely , to believe that Jesus is Christ the Son of God , is all that is necessary , &c. For precisely to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God , is to believe that and no more . Whereas , by that Phrase , the Scripture implies the believing the whole Gospel . So Joh. 11. 27. I believe that thou art the Christ , the Son of God. Acts 8. 37. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 1 John 5. 5. Who is he that overcometh the World , but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God ? 2. He puts his Query too extravagantly . Now what Conclusion can be drawn from this Text to our present purpose , but one — therefore the 20 th Chapter of St. John contains all things necessary . This is a Conclusion of his own forming , and before he can infer it , must ask two or three things , which he may be sure will never be granted him . 1. He takes it for granted , that by these in St. John , are to be understood only the Signs set down in that Chapter . Whereas ( 1. ) St. John in the former Verse , speaking of the Signs done by Jesus , saith they are not written in this Book , but these are written . Where ? Not in that Chapter , ( for to say the truth on 't , whatever our Author thinks , St. John did not divide his Gospel into Chapters ) but in that Book . And thus inded Bellarmin understands it . But ( 2. ) The Apostle further enlarges this Phrase , Chap. 21. 24 , 25. This is the Disciple which testifieth of these things , and wrote these things — And there are also many other things which Jesus did . And so what is true of the Signs , is also true of the other things wrote by that Evangelist . ( 3. ) Tho St. John spoke this more especially of the things writ by himself , yet the same is applicable to what was wrote by the rest of the Divine Writers : And it might be said of what was written by them , as well as of what was written by him , These are written that ye might believe . And this was the use made of this place of St. John in the Answer , viz. to shew what was the end the Scripture was written for , and the sufficiency of Scripture in order to that end ; and this that Quotation proves ; for if any part , and much more the whole of Scripture was written that they might believe ; Surely then they might believe by reading what was written . Thus it was argued in the Answer , p. 3. The Scripture must fail of its end , and we of the Salvation therein revealed , if that be not as sufficient in its kind to beget Faith in us , as Faith is to save us . For saith St. John , These things are written , &c. So that instead of our Author's Conclusion , I shall give him two other , which contain the force of what was there said ; they are these . The end for which the things are written in Scripture , is that we might believe ; but the things written would fail of the end for which they were written , if they are not sufficient to beget that Faith in us , which they were intended to be the means of . Again , If by the belief of what is contained in Scripture , we come to be saved ( as St. John saith ) then the Scripture must contain all those things which are necessary to be believed . But saith the Prover , St. John saith all this of the Signs written in that Chapter : But that I have already prevented ; or , if I should say so , it 's as tolerable , as it is for Bellarmin to affirm , that all the useful ends for which Scripture was wrote , are to be found in the 2 d Epistle of St. John , the shortest Book of Scripture . But however , here is a dreadful Charge at the heels of it . For , saith the Prover , The Conclusion eases the Members of his Congregation from the Obligation of reading any part of Scripture , besides the 20 th Chapter of St. John 's Gospel . We may guess to what Church our Author belongs , when he will have it an ease to the People , to be discharged from reading the Scripture . Tho at the same time , I wonder how he came to stumble upon the word Obligation : For how is this to be reconciled to the Practice of that Church , which eases the People of the whole , and permits them not to read the 20 th Chapter of St. John , nor any other part of Scripture , tho they are under a Divine Obligation so to do ? But in the Name of Logic and the University our Author was of , how comes this Conclusion on , That if all things necessary to Salvation are contained in the 20 th Chapter of St. John , That therefore the People are eased from the Obligation of reading more ? I remember Bellarmin at this place argues much at this rate , If St. John 's Gospel contains all things necessary , then the rest of Scripture is Superfluous . But the same Bellarmin , when press'd another way , asserts , There are many things in Scripture , which of themselves do not pertain to Faith , that is , which are not therefore written , because they are necessary to be believed . And again , There may be things sufficient for Baptism , but which suffice not absolutely for the Church . So that it seems there are things necessary and sufficient in one respect , and not in another ; some necessary for Salvation absolutely , some for Edification . And therefore it follows not , that because all things absolutely necessary , are contained in some part of Scripture , therefore the others are Superfluous , and there is no Obligation to read them . For then it would also follow , that because all things necessary are contained in the New Testament , therefore the Church in our Author's Phrase , is eased from the Obligation of reading the old . And because three thousand were converted by one Sermon , Acts 2. therefore all besides what was contained in that Sermon , would have been Superfluous . The second Text of Scripture is , 2 Tim. 3. 15 , 16 where the Apostle having thus warned Timothy immediately before , v. 14. Continue in those things which thou hast learnt , and are committed to thee , knowing of whom thou hast learnt ; by which words he renews the commands he had given him , O Timothy ! keep the depositum ; have a form of sound words , which thou hast heard of me , in Faith ; The said Apostle minds him that in his Infancy he had read the Old Testament , which bears sufficiently witness that Christ was the Messias , v. 15 , 16. Because from thine infancy thou hast known the holy Scriptures , which can instruct thee ( the Protestant Version hath , make thee wise ) to Salvation by the Faith that is in Christ Jesus . All Scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach , to argue , to correct , to instruct in Justice , that the man of God may be perfect , instructed to every good work , Hence the Minister argues thus ; The same Apostle that says all Scripture , ( i. e. each part of Scripture ) is given by Inspiration of God , says that the Scriptures are able to make us wise to Salvation ; But men cannot be wise to Salvation , without knowing what is necessary to salvation . Here he leaves us , but I will make up the Syllogism ; Therefere the Old Testament alone , nay every part of Scripture , contains all things necessary to salvation . Thus you see the Minister rests satisfied with the first Chapter of Genesis for his whole Rule of Faith. The truth is , that St. Paul only teaches there , that the Testament , or any part of Scripture , is of good use , is profitable to instruct any one in the concerns of his Salvation . What 's this to the containing of all necessaries to Salvation ? Bread is of very good use to preserve Life , and enables a man to perform all the duties of it ; is therefore nothing else necessary ? What pitiful shifts are these ? Here I must take leave to charge our Author with notorious Sophistry , not only from the false Construction of his Syllogism ( whether out of Ignorance or Design I know not ) but also for the falseness of the matter contained in it . The Answerer indeed undertook to prove the Scripture contains all things necessary to Salvation ; and that we are as sure of its sufficiency in that kind , as we are of its Divine Authority : forasmuch as the same Apostle that said all Scripture is of Divine Inspiration , doth also immediately before as positively affirm that the Scriptures are able to make us wise unto Salvation , 2 Tim. 3. 15 , 16. This is the whole of what the Answerer said upon this place ; and now with what Conscience could our Author charge this following Consequence upon him ? Hence the Minister argues thus , The same Apostle that says all Scripture ( i. e. each part of Scripture ) is given by Inspiration of God , says that the Scriptures are able to make us wise to Salvation ; but men cannot be wise to Salvation , without knowing what is necessary to Salvation . Is this He that said he would set down the Answerers Proofs in due Form ? Then God deliver us from such Undertakers . In short , it 's very evident that the Argument in the Answer , reduced into due Form , is this ; If the same Apostle saith the Scriptures are able to make us wise unto Salvation , that saith they are of Divine Inspiration , then we are as certain of their Sufficiency as we are of their Authority ; but the same Apostle saith the Scriptures are able to make us wise to Salvation , that saith they are of Divine Inspiration : Therefore we are as certain of their Sufficiency as we are of their Authority . This is the Argument , and this I will abide by ; and if our Author had been a fair Disputant , he would have shewed how either the Premises were false , or the Conclusion not justly inferred from them ; and since the place in which his Cause was most concerned , is ver . 15. that the Scriptures are able to make us wise unto Salvation ; he should have directed his Answer to it ; but he found it too hard for him , and so shuffles it off to the next verse , All Scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable , &c. Whereas supposing that all Scripture there , was after his wild way ( which I am not at present concerned to refute ) to be applied to each part of Scripture ; yet what is that to ver . 15. where it's said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the holy Scriptures , the same which Timothy had known from a child , are able to make wise unto Salvation ? But though for fear of being engaged further , he durst not undertake it ; yet he insinuates in an inference of his own , that it was the old Testament only that Timothy had read . But 1. How doth it appear that he read not also the Books of the New that were then extant , of which there were many ? For Bellarmin in his Answer to this , only says , When this Epistle was writ , the Apocalypse was not then extant , nor the Gospel of John , and perhaps some other Book was wanting , of the Body of the Scripture . Thereby yielding , the rest were then Written and Published . 2. If the Old Testament was able to make them that then read it wise unto Salvation ; then surely both Old and New is as sufficient now , as the Old alone was then . Our Author may remember where this was urged upon him , but he prudently pass'd over that Paragraph in silence . I shall still therefore conclude , that the Scripture is not only profitable , but necessary ; and not only necessary , but sufficient to answer that end for which it was revealed and written ; and that is , that we might believe , and be wise unto Salvation . His third Proof is this , Christ sent the young man who put that Question to him , Master , what shall I do to inherit eternal Life ? to the Commandments , thou knowest the Commandments ; and again declared that Moses and the Prophets were sufficient to dispose a sinner to repent . Behold another Logical Inference of great credit to the University this Answerer was brought up in ! By reading Moses and the Prophets I am moved to repent from my sins ; and if I will know what I must do to inherit eternal Life , I must know the Commandments ; therefore all things necessary to salvation are contained in Scripture . I may with Justice return to this man more than what he ungroundedly says to the Addresser , p. 1. that he takes up with such a sort of Arguments , which , tho not useful to make any ef his Religion , may very well make others of none . If such use only could be made of Scripture , it would be of no use at all to our Salvation ; no senseless Heresie hath appeared this 1600 years , which was not backt by more seeming Proofs from Scripture than these . Here our Author again prevaricates . The words in the Answer are these , From which Consideration ( that all things necessary are in Scripture ) it was , that all doubts relating to Salvation were hereby to be resolved , which could not be , were not all things necessary to Salvation contained in it . In which there are these Two plain Propositions , 1. That all doubts relating to Salvation might and were to be resolved by Scripture . 2. That they could not be resolved by Scripture , unless all things necessary to Salvation were contained in it . The first of these , which is the chief thing to be proved , the Answerer shewed from Luke 10. 25 , 26. and Mark 10. 17 , 19. Luke 16. 29. In the first of these places , our Saviour upon the Question put to him , Master , What shall I do to inherit eternal life ? Replies , What is written in the Law ? how readest thou ? And he answcring , said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart , &c. To which our Saviour replies , v. 28. Thou hast answered right , this do , and thou shalt live . What saith the Prover to this ? His Answer from Bays , p. 7. might well be returned , were it seemly in so serious an Argument as we are upon . He is indeed silent , and ( in his words elsewhere ) one may guess at the reason without casting a Figure . The same Question is again put to our Saviour , Mark 10. 17. and our Saviour answers , v. 19. Thou knowest the commandments , &c. implying , That in the Law , of which the Decalogue was a part , there was the way prescribed , by which Eternal Life was to be obtained . The Third place in the Answer is , Luke 16. 29. where the Rich man in Hell intreating that Lazarus might be sent to his Five brethren , lest they come into that place of torment ; he was answered , They have Moses and the Prophets , let them hear them . And when he supposed that was not sufficient , but if one went from the dead , they would repent ; Abraham answers again , If they hear not Moses and the Prophets , neither will they be perswaded , &c. In which there are these things : First it 's supposed , That if they did repent , they would not come into that place of Torment . 2. That if they hearkned to Moses and the Prophers , they would repent . 3. That whatever was necessary to their Repentance , they might find , and was contained in Moses and the Prophets . What saith the Prover to this ? Why , instead of an Answer , he will be at his Logic , and putting the Answerer's Proof in a due Form ; which he ushers in with great Triumph , Behold another Logical Inference , of great Credit to the Vuniversity this Answerer was brought up in ! Well , what is this Logical Inference ? It 's this , By reading Moses and the Prophets , I am moved to repent of my sins ; and if I will know what I must do to inherit Eternal Life , I must know the Commandments ; therefore all things necessary to Salvation , are contained in Scripture . If our Prover's Sincerity be no better than his Logic , he is no more a Credit to his Religion , than he is to his University , if ever he was of one . Here 's a defect in both , but which prevails is not easie to determine . I can relieve him by no other way , but by supposing the Argument in the Answer gave him a Shock , and his Brain was out of order before his Inference . But without exposing his weakness further , I will set him right , and leave him to his Cell for the rest . The Answerer's Argument is this , when set in due form , If all questions and doubts relating to Salvation are to be resolved by Scripture , then all things necessary to Salvation are contained in Scripture ; but all questions and doubts relating to Salvation are to be resolved by Scripture ( as appears from the Texts quoted above ) therefore , &c. I shall here return him my words again , because in repeating he has perverted them , He takes up with such a sort of Arguments , which how useful soever they may prove [ I will recall it , and say with him tho not useful ] to make some men of their Religion , have a plainer tendency to ( not as he corrupts them , may very well ) make others of none . Q. 2. Whether all things necessary to Salvation are clearly contained in Scripture ? Ans . From Scripture , not a word . However he condescends to deliver His sense , and that of his Church , on this Qnestion ; It is , That all persons cannot immediately learn all the necessaries to Salvation by meer reading of Scripture ; that many other helps are necessary , to wit , attention , consideration , to be cleared from prejudices and prepossessions , from pride , love of the world , interest , obstinacy ▪ partiality , sloth ; and besides all this , the assistance of teaching Guides , and a dependency from God for the Wisdom he hath promised , ( such promises I find made to the Church , but not any to particulars that shall refuse to be absolutely guided by the Church ; ) So that Scripture is plain in this sense only , that by these means it may be apprehended . Now by Guides he means not false ones , such as Christ bid us beware of , and consequently till a Protestant hath a reasonable conviction that his Church-Teachers , tho' divided from the Catholic Church , and condemned by General Councils , tho' Abettors of a Religion of not 150 years settlement , tho not in Communion with one Bishop in the whole World out of His Majesty's Dominions , yet still are true Guides ; and till he be morally sure that he wants not himself any one of the ten other dispositions requir`d , is to persuade himself that he may very well be one of those who wrest the Scripture to their perdition , and consequently hath no good ground for any one Act of Faith. This will create but small comfort to any Protestant . Less yet will he find in St. Cyril's Sentence , The things that are easie , are yet to Heretics hard to understand ; especially if all those be Heretics , according to St. Augustin , who when the Doctrine of Catholic Faith is declared to them , chuse to oppose it , and rather embrace what is their own sense ; if the Catholic Faith be , according to the same Dr ▪ a Communion with the whole world , so that , according as his Scholar St. Prosper defines it , a Christian when in Communion with this General Church , is a Catholic ; when separated from her , an Heretick , I wonder how this man was so confident as to name that word Heretic ; which his Brethren are usually as much afraid to mention , as a murtherer to come up to the murder'd Corps , lest by its bleeding he be betray'd . He saith that as to this second Question , there is from Scripture not a word in the Answer . And what needed it , when the same Texts that were brought to prove the Scripture contains all things necessary , do prove that it plainly contains them ? As for instance , Joh. 20. 31. These are written that ye might believe , and that believing ye might have life . Where the end for which they were written , which was that they might believe ; and the persons for whom they were written , for all Christians ; sufficiently prove , that they were for the manner so exprest , as well as from the matter so evident , that they might believe . So again , 2 Tim. 3. 15. The Scriptures are able to make thee wise unto Salvation . If they were the Scriptures that Timothy knew from a child , and were able to make him wise unto Salvation , surely they were plain in those things . So again , Luk. 10 25. What is written in the Law ? How readest thou ? must needs imply the Law was plain to be read and understood . So Luk. 16. 29. They have Moses and the Prophets . But to what purpose , if Moses and the Prophets were not to be understood by them ? But , 2. What proof would he have of this ? Can he have any plainer proof , than from the things contained therein ? Tolle lege , will shew there is a God , and God alone is to be worshipped . That the Soul is immortal . That there is a future state , and that a state of rewards and punishments . That man is fallen . That Christ redeemed him . That Christ is the Son of God. That he became man. That he was Crucified , and died a Sacrifice for us . That he rose from the dead , ascended into Heaven , is there our Mediator , &c. of which and the like , we may say as Justin Martyr did to Trypho the Jew , Attend to what I shall rehearse out of the holy Scriptures , proofs which need not to be explained , but only to be heard . But he goes on , However the Answerer delivers his sense on this Question : It is , That all persons cannot immediately learn all necessaries by meer reading of Scripture ; that many other helps are necessary , to wit , attention , consideration . And can he say any thing to the contrary ? Some things are so plain , as that with the meer reading of them , they are immediately understood ; Others require attention and consideration , and yet be plain , though not equally as plain as the former . The Answerer further proceeded to shew the mind ought to be clear'd from prejudices . And doth this detract any thing from the perspicuity of Scriptures ? For the Propositions may be plain , but yet be obscure to him that is under prepossessions , as was shewed at large in the Answer . All which were there sum'd up thus , If men come with an honest heart , and use a competent diligence , with a dependence upon God's assistance for the wisdom he hath promised , I know nothing necessary to Salvation but what is plainly taught in Scripture , and may be learn'd from it . What hath the Prover to say to this ? Such promises [ of obtaining wisdom from God ] I find made to the Church , but not to any particular that shall refuse to be absolutely guided by the Church . But is not this promise made to particulars without any mention of the Church , that he is to learn it from ? What thinks he of the place the Answerer had his eye upon ? Jam. 1. 5. If any of you lack wisdom , let him ask of God , and it shall be given him . What of Joh. 7. 17. If any man will do his will , he shall know of the Doctrine , whether it be of God ? Now it should have been , according to our Author's projection , If any man lack wisdom , or would know whether the Doctrine be of God , let him go to the infallible Church , to the Vicar of Christ , or a Council called by him , or to the Guides of that Church . For unless the Scripture be explain'd by some one that cannot err , it cannot be understood ; and ye will dangerously err by reading it , as Bellarmin argues . And yet whether there be such a Church , or whether the Church pretending to it , be not a fallible , and what is worse , a deceiving Church ; or whether the Guides be not false ones ; a man cannot be so much as morally sure , without he consult and understand the Scripture ; and when all is done ( according to this Author's way of arguing ) he may very well be one of those who wrest the Scripture to his own perdition , and consequently hath no good ground for any one act of Faith ; or can be certain that there is a Church , or this or that is the true Church , &c. This Paragraph of his is a kind of Jargon . But it affords occasion to put it to him , Who are the false Teachers , those that with the Pharisees set up Tradition to an equal Authority with Scripture ; or those that maintain Scripture alone to be of Divine Authority ? Those that make Scripture to depend upon the Church ; or those that make the Church to depend upon Scripture ? Those that teach we are absolutely to submit to the Church and the Guides of it ; or those that with the Apostle direct us to follow them only as they follow Christ , 1 Cor. 11. 1 ? Those that say men err by reading the Scriptures , and so take away from them that Key of Knowledg ; or those that with our Saviour teach them they err for not knowing them , Mat. 22. 29 ? Those that discourage men from reading the Scriptures , because of their pretended obscurity ; or those that with our Saviour require that they search them , and that because they are ( as the Psalmist saith ) a light to their paths ? Those that , with the Fathers , hold the Doctrines of the Trinity and Incarnation , may be clearly proved from Scripture ; or those that make them to depend upon Church Authority ? Those that derive theirs down for a thousand years after Christ , without any proof from Scripture and precedent Antiquity ; or those that Reformed their Church 1500 years after Christ , but can deduce the Genealogy of their Doctrines from Scripture and Genuine Antiquity for 4 , 5 , and 600 years after ? I ask him again , Who are the Hereticks ( in the sense he gives us ) those that with the Donatists in St. Austin's time confine the Church to their own party ; or those that with the Apostle , comprehend in it all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord both theirs and ours , 1 Cor. 1. 2 ? Those that exclude the whole world if not of their corrupt Communion ; or those that , according to his Quotation from St. Austin , maintain a communion with the whole world ? Methinks , after all he might , to return his own words , be as much afraid to mention that word Heretic , as a Murtherer to come up to the murther'd Corps , considering what havoc and devastation they have made amongst those they have call'd by that name . I shall give him Quotation for Quotation from St. Austin , and so conclude this Question : It suffices us , that we hold that Church which is demonstrated by most manifest Testimonies of the holy and Canonical Scripture . And again , Shew that there is some clear and manifest testimony given from Holy Canonical Scriptures to this thy Communion , and I do confess we are to go over to thee . Q. 3. What are the necessaries to Salvation ? Here plain and full Scripture will be of great use ; we may expect shoals of Texts : What answer from Scripture is given to this Question , think you ? E'en the same as honest Bays returns to a hard one in the Rehearsal , YGad I won't tell you . No , he gives not one word of answer to it , tho it be so material . Any one may guess at the reason , without casting a figure . With what Confidence can the Prover thus impose upon the Reader ? Was there not one word of Answer returned to this Question ? Of that let the Answer speak ; Where it 's thus put , Q. 3. What are these Necessaries to Salvation ? The Answer begins thus . Our Author offers three Instances of such Necessaries as are not clearly revealed in Scripture , viz. the Trinity , the Incarnation of our Saviour , and the Observation of the Lords Day . And of these , the Answerer Discourses for near eight Pages together , to shew that the Addresser had to little purpose objected against them . So that if the Trinity , and Incarnation , and the Lord's day , are necessaries , and for that reason were singled out as Instances of the Scriptures insufficiency and obscurity by the Addresser , and on the contrary were defended by the Answerer ; then surely , the 3 d Question no more wants an Answer , than the Prover wants Confidence that denies it . He writes indeed , as if the Question was barely proposed in the Answer , and he has used some art to confirm it , when he has made as many Questions as there are Instances , viz. of the Trinity , Incarnation , and the Lord's day : So that Question the 4 th , in the Answer , is Question the 7 th in the Proof . And this he does , that the Reader , if he has not the Answer before him , may not be aware of his Falsification , nor suspect that a man that first of all writes for the Publick , and then engaged to set down the Questions in the order of the Answerer , could be so false to both , as to affirm , there is not one word of Answer . Q 4 'T is in its whole extent this ; By what Text of Scripture are we plainly taught that God is One in Substance , Three in Person ? For as Joh. 10 50. Christ says , I and my Father are One ; so 17. 21. he prays , That all Believers may be One , as he and his Father are one ; This second place may seem to expound the first , and then Christ and his Father will be One only morally , as all the Believers be One. Or else , what Texts declares the Three Persons to be One by identity of substance ? Ans . Not one Text of Scripture to give us the dubious Sense of the two in Question ! And yet these men pretend to clear Scripture for each Fundamental Point ! The Answerer supplies this want of Scripture with two Reasons . The first is this , Of the Three that bear record in Heaven , `t is said they are One ; but of the Three that bear witness on Earth , they agree in one . ( I will admit this English Translation , tho Apocryphal . ) But what then ? But if in both were meant only a moral Vnion , it would have been as well said of the Three that bear record in Heaven , they agree in One ; therefore they have more than a moral Vnion . Is not this special Logic ? Would not this way of arguing prove equally that the Believers are one with more than a moral Union , because otherwise it might as w●ll have been said , Joh. 17. May they agree in one . The Question is , Whether this second clear Text concerning the Three that bear Witness on Earth , and which we know to be only morally One , doth not expound what that Unity is , that is found in the Three which bear record in Heaven ? We ask a proof out of Scripture to decide this doubt ; but our Answerer hath none to give us , or is grown Churlish , and will not allow us any . Hath he any to expound the other Text ? No , not any ; but he offers at some Insinuation from Scripture , and `t is this : When Christ said , I and my Father are One , the Jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy , because that thou being a Man ( said they ) makest thy self God : The Jews then understood him to have spoken of a Natural Vnion , therefore he did so . Well , I will let my good nature work upon me once , and for quiets sake I will let this Discourse pass as allowable ; But in return of Curtesy I hope each sober Protestant will own this following Argument to be of at least as good Alloy ; When Christ said , Joh. 6. Unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man , you have no Life in you ; The Jews , who said , how can this man give us his Flesh to eat ? and his Disciples , who walked no more with him , understood that he spake of his natural Body which they should corporally eat ; therefore Christ did really mean they should corporally feed on his natural Flesh . This Popish Conclusion is in the same Form. This is the first Instance of Scripture's obscurity in matters necessary , offered by the Addresser : And here the Answerer shewed in general , how frivolous and absurd the way of arguing used on this matter , by that Author , was ; ( to which we have not a word of Reply ) and then particularly , that the two Scriptures , viz. 1 John 5. 7. and John 10. 30. usually insisted on amongst others in proof of the Doctrine of the Trinity , remain in their full force , notwithstanding what the Addresser had objected against them . But to this the Prover now Replies , There is not one Text of Scripture to give us the dubious Sense of the two in Question . What means he ? Would he have Texts to prove the Father , the Word and Holy Ghost , to be three Divine Persons ? That was not the Answerer's part to prove ; or if it was , he might send him to his Friend Bellarmin , who in Proof of the Deity of our Saviour , has collected about 100 Texts of the Old and New Testament . Would he have some Chapter and Verse , where are these or the like Words , The word One , in the first Epistle of St. John ; Item , in St. John 's Gospel , signifies a strict Identity ; yes by all means , for saith the Addresser , This ought to be , if all necessaries to Salvation are contained in Scripture . I thought our Author might by this time have been sensible of this weakness ; certainly this Gentleman's Condition calls for some Commiseration ; and he would do well to advise upon it , whether the Scripture was originally divided into Chapter and Verse ; and whether Hugo Cardinalis , and Robert Stephens , were not very Ignorant , or unadvised to Labour in this Work anew , if so it had been . But is there no other way to give the Sense of these Texts ? Suppose we consider the Words and Phrases , the Context and Scope of the Places in question , and compare them with others , and from all draw some good and substantial Reasons ; will not that be as proper , and as much to the purpose , as if we had Chapter and Verse in his way ? And this was the way taken by the Answerer . As for Example , in 1 John 5. 7. 1. It was there observed , that it 's as plainly said the Father , the Word , and the Holy Ghost , are One , as that they are Three . 2. That the Union betwixt these Three , was not a mere moral Union , or a Union only of Will and Consent ; for the Apostle makes a plain difference betwixt the Three that bear Record in Heaven , and the Three that bear Witness in Earth : For of the Three in Heaven , it 's said , they are One ; but of the Three in Earth , they agree in one . Of this the Prover saith , I will admit this English Translation [ agree in one ] tho Apocryphal . Why an English Translation ? or why Apocryphal ? Unless it be that it 's nor Verbatim , according to what they call the Authentick Vulgar Translation . For otherwise their own Clarius and Bellarmin , &c. do thus translate it , Conveniunt in unum , & conspirant in unum . But admit this , saith he , What then ? Then the Answerer thus proceeded in his Argument , Now if it had been a mere moral Vnion that was betwixt the Father , the Word , and the Holy Ghost ( who are the Three in Heaven ) it would have been as well said of them as of the Spirit , the Water and the Blood ( which are the Three in Earth ) that they agree in one . Here the Prover exults . Is not this special Logic ? Would not this way of arguing prove equally , that the Believers are one , with more than a moral Vnion ; because , otherwise it might as well have been said Joh. 17. May they agree in one ? As for the Logic , it is Bellarmin's as well as the Answerer's , who from the different Phrases 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thus argues , Whence you may plainly see , that the Spirit , Water , and Blood , are not One , ( as the Father , the Word , and the Holy Ghost ) but only do agree in one Testimony . And as for the Inference the Prover makes , Would not this way of Arguing prove , &c. I answer , the Case is not alike . For , 1. The Force of the Argument doth not lie merely upon the difference of Phrase ( for both Bellarmin and the Answerer knew how One is sometimes applied to a Moral Union , as John 17. ) but upon its being used in this place by way of distinction betwixt things of a different nature ; for proof of which it 's to be observed , that the Apostle designing to shew the validity of the Testimony given to the Son of God , v. 5. which was twofold ; he further amplifies this , and distinctly speaks to each of them , ver . 7. and tho both do give Testimony to the same Truth , yet one in an higher , and the other in a lower degree . As , ( 1. ) There are Three that bear Record in Heaven , and Three in Earth . ( 2. ) The Three in Heaven are One , and the Three in Earth agree in One. By which way of arguing , and the distinction observed betwixt them , the ▪ Apostle shows , That the Three that bear Record in Heaven , are not more different in their Nature and Place from the Three in Earth , than in their Union : That they are both alike Three , and both alike in their Testimony , but that the one are in Heaven , the other in Earth : The Three in Heaven are One , but the Three in Earth agree in One : So that the Three in Earth are no more One , as the Three in Heaven , than the Three that bear Record in Earth , are the Three that bear Record in Heaven . 2. In confirmation of this , it 's observable , that one of these Phrases is more fit to express a Natural than a Moral Union ; that is , they are One , doth more aptly express it , than they agree in One : And therefore whereas they are One , may sometimes signifie a Moral Union , and may then be interpreted by , they agree in One ; yet agree in One cannot be interpreted by , they are One. 3. From hence we have an answer to that Question of his , Whether this second clear Text concerning the Three that bear witness on Earth , and which we know to be only Morally One , doth not expound what that Vnity is that is found in the Three which bear Record in Heaven : I answer , No ; for tho One sometimes signifies a Moral Union , yet here , if so understood , it would quite destroy that distinction betwixt the one Three , and the other , and the Preference that the one Three had above the other Three in their Union . 4. By this we are prepared also to answer to his other Argument , when he saith , that when our Saviour prays , John 17. 21. that all believers may be one , as he and his Father are one , may seem to expound , John 10. 58. I and my Father are one : and then Christ and his Father will be one only Morally , as all the Believers are one . In answer to which , 1. It 's granted that the Father and the Son may be said to be one in a Moral Sense , as one in consent . But , 2. It doth not follow , that because the Father and Son are thus One , that therefore they are no otherwise One ; and that all Believers are as much One , as the Father and Son are One. 3. It 's evident from what is spoke by way of Explication in that place , that it 's otherwise ; for when ver . 22. Christ prays , that they may be one as we are one , it 's added ver . 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the same Phrase as 1 John 5. 8. ) that they may be made perfect in one ; implying that the Unity betwixt Believers , is of another nature than the Unity betwixt the Father and the Son. 4. The Union of Believers in John 17. cannot be applied to the Union betwixt the Father and the Son , in John 10. 50. because this latter is a Union of Essence , as well as Will : And for confirmation of this , the Answerer offered an Argument from the Text it self ; to take off the force of which , the Prover in repeating it , leaves out a main branch of it ; for thus he frames it for the Answerer ; When Christ said , I and my Father are one , the Jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy , because that thou being a man ( said they ) makest thy self God ; The Jews then understood him to have spoken of a Natural Vnion , therefore he did so . But the Inference in the Answer was this , It follows that neither did our Saviour speak , nor the Jews understand him to have spoken of a Moral , but a Natural Vnion . The first and the main Branch was , That our Saviour himself spoke of a Natural Union ; the next was , That the Jews understood him also to have spoken of it : And for the first , I referred him to the Book , called , The Doctrine of the Trinity and Transubstantiation compared ; but it wants an Answer , and so he cautiously takes no notice of it . But because he is herein so reserved , let me recommend him to his Friend Bellarmin , who concludes this Argument with , Constat eos rectè intellexisse , It 's evident , the Jews rightly understood our Saviour . But it seems this Advice comes too late ; for faith he , I will let my good nature ( I wish he could say sincerity ) work upon me for once ; and for quiets sake , I will let this discourse pass as allowable . Whence is it that all o' th' sudden he is in so good a humour , and so forward in his allowances ? The good man could not contain himself longer ; for from a small advantage he espied ( and which is somewhat rare with them now-a-days , and therefore not to be let slip ) he will yield , tho the thing he yields be never so impertinent and absurd . Let this pass ; What then ? In return of Courtesie , saith he , I hope each sober Protestant will own this following Argument to be at least of as good alloy : When Christ said , John 6. Vnless you eat the Flesh , &c. the Jews , &c. understood that he spake of his Natural Body , therefore Christ did really mean they should corporally feed on his Natural Flesh . But surely sober Protestants are for Reason , Pertinence , and Sincerity ; but however , his Argument shall be allowable , if he can make it as evident the Jews did not mistake when they understood Christ spake of his Natural Flesh , and a corporal feeding on it : as it may be made appear , they did not mistake him , when they thought by his calling himself the Son of God , that he meant he was essentially of the same Nature , and one with God. Q ▪ 5. Is the mystery of the Incarnation of Christ clearly exprest in Scripture ? Or can it be clearly made out by Scripture , that those words , John 1. The Word was made Flesh , own'd by all Christians to be true , are to be understood in such sense , that Both Natures were in one Person , so that what is said of the Man Christ Jesus , be truly said of the Son of God ; for example , that the B. Virgin was mother of God ; and not as the Nestorians understood them , to wit , that Christ was indeed a true man , made of the Seed of David ; and that the Eternal Word , true God , was indeed in him , but not by a strict Personal Union ? Ans . Not one word from Scripture . What indeed all the Nestorians supposed , he proves ; but as to the Unity of One Person uniting these two Natures , not one word . This man ( any one may see ) is of those who take the Nestorians to be a part of the Catholick Church ; and no one will grudge their Congregation the Title of such a part of the Catholick Church , that is , a Member severed from the One Body of Christ . The Prover saith , What all the Nestorians supposcd he proves , but as to the Vnity of one Person , &c. not one word . Put case the Answerer had proved no more than what our Author now saith Nestorius supposed , if he proved what was sufficient to confute what the Addresser supposed for Nestorius ; and then the Answerer could , as far as the Addresser then knew , be no Nestorian . Let us then see how the Addresser represented this Heresie . Nestorius , saith he , and others denied that word ( is made Flesh ) to signifie a strict Incarnation . But what then did he and others hold ? but either a Moral Vnion , or a meer External appearance of a man. He tells us not whether both of these , or which of these was the opinion of Nestorius ; but I shall not take this advantage , but suppose he meant the first , a Moral Vnion : And what is that ? He tells us ( p. 3. and as quoted in the Answer , p. 20. ) that is , he was a Man who had the Authority of God as his Plenipotentiary . Where first , his account of a Moral Vnion is very extravagant ; as if the being employed by another , would make him , for that reason , to be Morally one with him that employs him ; but that Author is to be pardoned , who understands not the difference betwixt a Moral and Political Union . And again , he shewed himself not acquainted with the matter of Fact , when he saith the Heresie of Nestorius consisted in this , that he denied Christ to be united to the Word , otherwise than Morally ; whereas St. Cyril saith , he granted that Emanuel , or Christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was constituted and compounded of the Word of God , and an Intelligent Soul and a Body . But then , saith he , he divided one Christ into Two ; so that he that is born of the Virgin , is perfect man , and the other the Word of God ; the one mere man , the other true God : The Word , the true and Eternal Son of God ; but that which is born of the Virgin is equivocally the Son of God. Thus that Father . But he will say I am now better informed : Thanks to the Answerer , who gently intimated to him , that he was out of the way ; and to his Friend that has since set him in the right . But after all , was there not one word in the Answer as to the Vnity of one Person , uniting these two Natures ? Let him but cast his eye upon it again , and he will see this to be the Conclusion of the Argument , Then there must be in him ( Christ ) two Natures united , which is the Incarnation . If the Incarnation be the Union of two Natures in Christ , the Word , and this was rightly inferred from what went before ; then what shall I say ? Our Author has not dealt fairly with his Adversary : And if this be to be a Nestorian , then so was St. Cyril , so was the Couneil that condemncd him ; for so St. Cyril describes the Incarnation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; when the Word was united to a Body informed by a Rational Soul. Q. 6. The first branch of this Question is , What Scripture hath absolved us from obeying one of the Commandments , which imposes the keeping of Saturday holy ? The second , What Text of Scripture exacts of us the keeping holy ( as the Lords day ) the Sunday ? Ans . To the first part , not one word of Scripture ; and for excuse he tells us , That there was no need of an express abrogation , because Sunday being set apart for the publick and solemn Worship of God , the Sabboth-day as well as the Holy-days and New-moons of the Jews , being a shadow , must surrender to the Sunday . Here is as little Reason as Scripture ; for the Sabboth did appertain to the Law of Nature , and was not a shadow only of a thing to come , but a memory of the past , and never-to-be-forgotten benefit of the Creation , from the work whereof God rested on that day , and blessed the seventh day . Here 't is pity at what a loss the Answerer is to find the Chapter and Verse wherein the abrogation of Circumcision is clearly exprest ; 'T is a charitable condescendency to instruct him ; let him look then in Gal. 5. 2. where behold Paul tells you , that if you be circumcised , Christ shall profit you nothing . For the second part , he produces a Text , Rev. 1. 10. I was in spirit on the Lords day ; then he flourishes to teach us ignorant people , that 't is usual in Scripture , after that Times , Places , Things and Persons were set apart for the service of God by Divine Institution , to have his Name as a mark of propriety given to them . But in the name of sense and reason , what means all this ? There is a Lords day , no doubt ; St. John was in spirit that day , 't is certain ; but the question is , What day of the week was it ? or was it only some peculiar day of the year , as Easter-day , or Good-friday ? Hath he Scripture for this ? Not one word . I find forty Texts that call the day of general Judgment , or that of each man's death , the Lord's day ; but not one that mentions Sunday under that name . I find , Act. 2. 46. how they that believed were daily continuing with one accord in the Temple , or breaking Bread from house to house , but not a word of a day appointed for stated Assemblies . Scripture failing our Adversary , he seeks supplies from Reason ; but the misfortune is , that the first and chiefest he offers at , stands against him ; The Moral Sabboth ( says he ) in the Patriarchal Church , and the Ceremonial in the Jewish Church , were on the days following the Creation and Deliverance from the Slavery of Aegypt . True , but what follows ? Therefore 't is not to be kept by Christians on the day in which Christ rested after he had accomplish`d our Redemption on the Cross by a solemn Consummatum est , and his precious Death ? Not on Saturday ? Raillery aside , what can be ( I will not say more dull , but ) spoken more directly in spight of sense and reason ? Our Author for convenience to himself , has transposed the Questions ; so that the first in the Address , is now the last . Let him quietly enjoy the benefit of it ; I shall begin as he now begins . Q. 1. What Scripture hath absolved us from , &c. To this I gave , in short , a Threefold answer . 1. He requiring Chapter and Verse , I told him , When he could find out Chapter and Verse for an express and clear abrogation of Circumcision , I would shew him Chapter and Verse for that of the Sabbath . Here out of his abundant charitable condescendency he vouchsafes to instruct me , and hands me to Gal. 5. 2. Where behold Paul tells you , that if you be circumcised , Christ shall profit you nothing . And yet I do not find there is a clear and express abrogation of it . An Abrogation is a total abolition of it ; and if it was abrogated so as that whoever was thereafter Circumcised , could have no profit by Christ ; then all so Circumcised were in a state of Damnation . And here it would be fit to know when this abrogation did commence ? For Act. 16. 3. we find Paul to Circumcise Timothy ; and not long before St. Paul's being a Prisoner , and being carried to Rome , the solemn Assembly declared that there were many thousands of the Jewish Christians which were zealous of the Law ; and that St. Paul was reputed to be too forward in teaching the Gentiles ought not to circumcise their children , Act. 21. 20 , 21. So that the Apostle's censure of it is not to be universally understood ; but is only a preventing of their imposing it upon the Gentiles , and requiring it as necessary to Justification and Salvation . And of these that held it thus necessary , he saith , If ye be circumcised , upon these terms , Christ shall profit you nothing ; if ye are justified , and expect justification by the Law , ye are fallen from grace , ver . 4. 2. I shewed there was no more a need of an express abrogation of the Sabbath , than there was of the abrogation of Circumcision ; because if the Lord's day was instituted , and which in the order of the Answer was first prov'd , the Sabbath must in reason surrender to it . 3. I shewed it from Col. 2. 16. where the Sabbath is said to be a shadow of things to come , and so was to cease by the coming of Christ , as the rest of the same kind . He saith of this , there is as little reason as Scripture ; but if there be as much reason as Scripture , he had no cause to complain : But he first takes care to leave out the Scripture , and then to exclaim , not one Word of Scripture . Well! what has he to say to that little Reason that there is ? He saith , The Sabboth did appertain to the Law of Nature , and was not a Shadow only of a thing to come , but a Memory [ he would say , a Memorial ] of the Creation . But did it otherwise appertain to the Law of Nature , than as it was of Divine Institution ? Or , was it then so a Memorial of what was past , as not to be a Shadow of somewhat to come ? Let him see how the Apostle applies it , Heb. 4. 9 , 10. But , suppose that it was a Memorial of the Creation ( as it was ) and a Shadow to the Jews ( as he owns ) then being both were but one and the same day , how could the Observation of the Sabbath be abrogated as a Shadow , and not also as a Memorial , since the same Day that was for the one , was also for the other ? Thus we find there was a Patriarchal Circumcision , and a Mosaical , as our Saviour shews , John ▪ 7. 22. And the question then is , Whether the Abrogation of the Mosaical , was not also the Abrogation of the Patriarchal Circumcision ? And , whether what holds in the one , doth not hold in the other . 2 d Branch , What Text of Scripture exacts of us the keeping the Sunday holy ? Or what Scripture have we for the Divine Institution of it ? As to this by way of Preparation , I. 1. Gave a general Reason , which our Author for a little Advantage , has set last , and very unworthily abused . I shall set them one against the other , before the Reader . Answer . There is as much in the reason of the thing for this peculiar day to be observed in the Christian Church , as there was for the Sabbath in the Patriarchal and Jewish Church ; for what the Moral Sabbath was to Man upon his Creation ; and the Ceremonial Sabbath was to the Jews upon their deliverance out of Egypt ; that is the first day of the Week , or the Lord's day to Christians upon our Redemption by Christ , which was accomplished and testified in his Resurrection on that day . Clear Proof . The Moral Sabbath in the Patriarchal Church , and the Ceremonial in the Jewish Church , were on the days following the Creation and Deliverance from Egypt . Therefore 't is not to be kept by Christians on the day in which Christ rested after he had accomplished our Redemption on the Cross , by a Solemn Consummatum est , and his precious Death ? Not on Saturday ? And then he Triumphs , What can be ( I will not say more dull , but ) spoken more directly in spight of Sense and Reason ? And I will add , what can be more false , than what he here puts upon the Answerer ( and that is somewhat a worse Charge than Dulness ) when in spight of honesty , he shall thus manifestly pervert that which lay clear before him , into ridiculous Nonsense ? It 's manifest , he has here nothing to say , unless he will say , there is not as much reason in the nature of the thing , for the Observation of one day in seven , in memory of our Redemption , as there was for it in the Creation , or the Deliverance out of Egypt . 2. I particularly proved it from the Mark of Divine Institution set upon it , in the Name , the Lord's day , Rev. 1. 10. it being usual in Scripture to have the Name of the Lord applied to Times , Places , Persons and Things , when set apart by Divine Institution . To this he Replies . The Question is , What day of the Week that was in the Revelation ? Or , was it only some peculiar day of the year , as Easter-day , or Good-Friday ? To which I Answer . 1. If the Name of the Lord be not without a reason applied to a Day , then it 's evident that no day of the Week has any Colour or Pretence to it , but the First day . 2. It cannot be reasonably supposed to be some peculiar day of the year , as Easter-day , or Good-Friday . ( 1. ) Because we are certain , that the first day of the Week was observed in Apostolical times ( as I shewed from Scripture ) but we are not certain of these ; there being not one word of Scripture , that looks that way . And when St. Austin saith of the Anniversary Observation of the days of Christ's Passion , Resurrection , Ascension , and the Descent of the Holy Ghost , that they were observed in the whole World ; he adds , it 's to be belived such things so observed , were commanded and appointed by the Apostles , or General Councils . He saith , it 's to be believed they were appointed by one or the other ; not being able to determine which ; but we know that there was no General Council till above 300 years after Christ . ( 2. ) Easter-day ( which has the nearest pretence both in Reason and Antiquity ) cannot be the Lord's day , because they were distinguished . So St. Austin , We ( saith he ) solemnly celebrate the Lord's day , and Easter . And the Eastern Churches , particularly , that of Ephesus ( where St. John more especally was , did observe Easter according to the Moon , and not the day of the Week ; and that so early , as An. 197. when Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus , and a Council of Bishops concurring with him , wrote to Victor Bishop of Rome , who threatned to Excommunicate them for it ; that they feared him not , for it was better to obey God than Man. As for Good-Friday's being the Lord's day , that I believe is a Nostrum of our Author's , as well as the Question put by him , is , What day of the Week the Lords day is on ? 2. He answers , I find forty Texts that call the day of general Judgment , or that of each man's death , the Lords day , but not one that mentions Sunday under that name . What follows ? Therefore the Lord's day St. John was in the Spirit upon , was the day of Judgment or death , and not Sunday . But he will say this is a little too much ; for the use he makes of this Observation , is to shew , that that day , whatever it was , might be called the Lord's day , and yet not be of Divine Institution . Very well : but yet I find the day of Judgment , ( for indeed the day of death is not , as far as I remember , call'd the Lord's day in Scripture ) to be of Divine Ordination : So Matth. 24. 36. and Acts 17. 31. He hath appointed a day ; and is therefore a confirmation of what he would confute by it . 3. I offer'd further in proof of a Divine Institution , That that day was consecrated by the Descent of the Holy Ghost upon it . But to this he found nothing to reply . 4. I proved it from the observation of that day , and the Service celebrated upon it , Act. 20. 7. 1 Cor. 16. 2. What has he here to say ? I find , Acts 2. 46. saith he , how they that believed were daily continuing in the Temple ; but not a word of a day appointed for solemn Assemblies . What use can be made of this accurate Observation , and the stress he lays upon daily ; What but this ? The believers daily resorted to the Temple , therefore they had no peculiar day ; and so it follows most admirably , the Jews daily repaired to the Temple , therefore they had no peculiar day , no Sabbath . But he finds not a word of a day appointed for stated Assemblies , no not so much as Acts 20. 7. &c. quoted and insisted on in the Answer . Having thus dismiss'd the third question of the Answer , with all the supernumerary Questions collected out of it by the Prover ; I went to look for Question the fourth , as it is in the Answer , and put by the Addresser ; and that is , Whether it be necessary to salvation for him to believe the Trinity and Incarnation , that cannot find them clearly express'd in Scripture , though he reads it sincerely , and with humility . But of this , not a word . We may guess at the reason without casting a figure . However , it 's a little more honest to omit a Paragraph , than it is to pervert it . The former is an implicit acknowledgment of Truth , the latter is a renouncing it . Q. 7. Am I bound to believe ( the sense given to a doubtful Text ) because my Guides tell me I must do so ? Ans . No , plainly No : And he hath two Texts for it ; the first , 2 Cor. 1. 24. Not for that we have dominion over your Faith , but are helpers , says St. Paul ; and Mat. 23. 8. Call no man Master on earth , for one is your Master . Here not only the Walls of the City of God are broken down , but the very Foundations ( of Prophets and Apostles ) are digg'd up ; is it all St. Paul could do , all you allow him , to give some light , some helps , when his Proselytes had any doubt about the sense of Scripture ? Were they not oblig'd to believe the Sense and Interpretation He gave to the Text ? Then that Faith is vain which was founded on the Apostles Preaching , and all Christianity stands on a wrong bottom . Here our Author is guilty of another omission ; For the Answerer exhibited a five-fold Charge against him of Fallacy and Collusion , which he has taken no manner of care to clear himself of ; but suffers it to remain in its full force against himself . He has indeed proceeded otherwise in this last Question ; For whereas before in the Address he set up a Guide that is a Judge , whom it's necessary so to believe , and to submit to , as to receive from him such Necessaries to Salvation as are not contained in Scripture , and the sense of such Necessaries as are not clearly contained in it ; he now in the proof softens , and extenuates , and expounds , and the Question now is reduced to this , Am I bound to believe the Sense given to doubtful Texts , because my Guide tells me I must do so ? This indeed may better serve his purpose , but after all is neither true in it self , nor can be accommodated to his former notion of a Guide , and the authority given to him . For what has doubtful Texts to do with the Case , where there are no Texts concerned ? What has a Sense given to Scripture , to do with a Case which is to be determined without Scripture ; As it is in Necessaries not contained in Scripture , and which we are to learn from our Guide that we are bound to follow ? But supposing we take his Exposition , that this is when the Texts be doubtful ; yet the Things those Texts are supposed to be concerned in , are Things necessary to Salvation ; and so to believe a Guide absolutely , as to the sense of a doubtful Text , is equivalent to the believing him where there is no Text pretended . Since the Person in doubt is no more assur'd of the sense of these Texts in a Point necessary , than he was without a Text. For when there is no Text for a thing necessary , he absolutely relies upon his Guide , who tells him , it is necessary : And when there is a sense given to a doubtful Text , he believes that sense , because his Guide tells him that is the sense of it , and so he still relies upon his Guide ; and his Faith is thus immediately resolved into the Guide . And it seems this the Answerer doth deny , and that upon the Authority of our Saviour , who disallows it , Mat. 23. 8. and the Apostle who disclaims it , 2 Cor. 1. 24. But here our Author is beside all patience , and answers it with a dreadful Exclamation . Here , not only the Walls of the City of God are broken down , but the very Foundations of Prophets and Apostles are digg'd up . And why so ? because we will not admit a Guide of their own Imposition , in defiance of our Saviour's and St. Paul's prohibition to the contrary . But O , saith our Author , Is it all St. Paul could do , all you allow him , to give some light , some helps , when his Proselytes had any doubt about the Sense of Scripture ? Were they not obliged to believe the Sense and Interpretation he gave to the Text ? Then , &c. Here the Prover is either confounded in his own thoughts , or intends to confound and amuse his Reader . The Opinion he maintains is , That in matters of doubt , a Person doubting is to be absolutely concluded by his Guide ; I am to believe , saith he , because my Guides tell me I must do so . Now he would have it , that to deny this Authority to the Apostles , is to allow them only to give some light , some helps , that is , ( as I conceive he means ) to make them no more than Common Teachers . But I shall endeavour , if it may be , to set our Author right in this matter . Toward which it 's to be observed , 1. That there is an absolute and sovereign Authority in the Church , which all are bound to follow , believe and obey , without any dispute , and that Authority is soly the prerogative of our Saviour , and which no man , or society of men can claim , Mat. 23. 8 , 9. 2. There is a subordinate Authority , which is immediately derived from him ; and this was peculiar to inspired Persons , and is extraordinary . So the Apostle saith of himself , Gal. 1. 11 , 12. The Gospel which was preached of me , is not after man ; For I neither received it of man , neither was I taught it but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ . But as such Persons were sent , so they were able to prove their Commission and their Doctrine to be received from Christ : And they did not require any to believe them , because they told them they were their Guides , and they must believe them , because they tell them so ; ( for that was to have dominion over their Faith ) but they appealed to the Scriptures , to their Miraculous Gifts ; 2 Cor. 12. 12. and encouraged their Auditors to try and examine their Doctrines ; Acts 17. 11. Gal. 1. 8 , 9. And this way of trying is so far from making Faith Vain ( as our Author pretends ) that it would be vain without it . But , saith he , Were not the Proselytes of St. Paul obliged to believe the Sense and Interpretation he gave to the Text ? Without doubt ; but then he did not require them to receive and believe it , because he told them so , but because it was revealed , and that they beforehand were satisfied in the Confirmation he brought of his Apostleship . For where there was a new Revelation of any Point to be believed , or matter to be done , being that could not be any farther examined by Scripture than as it was not contrary to it , it wholly was to be resolved into his Mission ; and they had the same reason to believe his Doctrine , as his Mission . 3. There is another sort of subordinate Authority , which receives both its Mission and Doctrine in an ordinary way : And therefore must needs be subject to the like ways of tryal and proof as the former . But with this difference , that what inspired Persons taught as revealed from God , that upon proof of their Mission by Miracles , 2 Cor. 12. 12. was to be believed : but now when we have only ordinary means , and the written Word for our Rule , there is no other Doctrine to be received , than what is contained in that Rule , and so neither can they oblige us , nor are we obliged to believe them , because they tell us so , but as it 's consonant with , or contained in , or rightly inferred from the Scripture , which we are to compare it with , and to judge of it by . But now our Author makes their Guides not only equal , but superior to the Apostles , when he tells us , We are bound to believe them , because they themselves tell us so ; and that without any examination . So that if a man mistakes his Guide , or his Guide mistakes , he must unavoidably mistake also , being wholly to be determined by them . And then he must be an Arian with the Popes Felix and Liberius , a Nestorian with Anastasius , a Monothelite with Honorius , and deny the immortality of the Soul with John XXIII . And now let any judg where the Foundations of the Prophets and Apostles are digg'd up ; whether in the Reformed Churches , that teach us we are not bound to believe any Guide , without tryal of their Doctrine ; or the Church of Rome , which , with our Author , affirms we are bound to believe our Guides , because they tell us we must do so . Now our Answerer takes his turn to ask Questions . He tells us that for the first he has a pinching one : ` T is this ; If I must know the Church by some marks or notes , then I must find these marks first ; and where must I seek them ? This is pinching indeed ! Suppose in a Gazette I should find some marks of a Man that is sought for , were it not a severe Objection against the Man who gave them , and a pinching Question , I must find these Marks before I find the man ; and where shall I find them ? I conceive such pinching would force a smile , and this Answer , Why Friend , the marks and the man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his Face . At the same time as one takes a view of the Catholic Church , he sees therein a continual Succession of Bishops and Teachers from the Apostles ; he discovers her in all parts of the World , and finds her thus Catholic ; he sees in her an undivided Faith , Union under one Pastor in the use of the same Sacraments , and finds her One ; he observes her Rule is , Let nothing be alter'd of what was receiv'd from the Apostles by a constant Universal Tradition in the Churches which they founded , and is convinced she is Apostolical ; he finds God favours her with the Gift of Miracles , promised Mat. 10. and Joh. 14. that she hath fulfilled the Prophesies concerning the Conversion of Nations , converted to Christianity by her Children only ; and he concludes this is she . The Prover saith that , Now the Answerer takes his turn to ask Questions . And good reason , after the Addresser had put so many before . He tells us further , That for the first he has a pinching one . 'T is this , If I must know the Church by some Marks , then I must find out those Marks first ; and where must I seek them ? But , why is this called the first Question when there are several before it ? He might better have called it the only Question , since it's what he has singled out of many to try the power of his Logic upon . And now let us see how he quits himself , when he comes to be Respondent . His Answer to the Question , is , Suppose in a Gazette , &c. and the Marks , and the Man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his Face . Where his whole business is to go off from the Question that is ask'd , to a Question that is not ask'd . The main Question in the Answer was , How shall I find out the true Church ? Is it because She her self so declares ? Or that She is knowable by a self-evident Light ? Or is She to be found out by Marks ? If by Marks , then we must find out the Marks before we find out the Church , which is to be known by those Marks ; and then the pinching Question comes on ; Where must I seek them ? That , it 's to be fear'd , will lead us to the Scriptures . Now what is the Sense of the Question , Where must I seek them ? Certainly , it is not in dispute , whether the Marks are not to be found in the thing sought for , by those Marks ( as he impertinently lays it ) For if they are the proper Marks of the thing ; then , surely , they are to be found with the thing that they are the Marks of ; or else it is impossible to find out the thing by these Marks . But the meaning of the Question is the same as it was in the Address , ( and from whence the Answerer borrowed the Terms ) and that is , Where are the Notes ? Where are they described ? Or , How shall I come to know them ? And thus it follows in the Answer , It is to be feared , this will lead us to the Scripture . But because some men are hard of Understanding , whether for a weak or a bad reason , I determine not , I shall begin the matter again . It is agreed , that there is a Church , and that there are certain Marks by which the Church may be found : Now the Question is , What are those Marks ? Whether Continual Succession , Vniversal Extent , Vnion under one Visible Pastor , & c. ? Or , The Profession of the true Faith , right Administration of the Sacraments ? Now how shall we know , or where shall we find , which of these are the Marks belonging to the Church , and by which it is to be known ? I shall make it plain by his own instance ; Supposing that there is somewhat of great Importance depends upon finding out a particular person ; and that he that would find him out , knows not the man , but for his better direction applies himself to one that knows somewhat of this matter , and asks him , Sir , How shall I find out such a Man , or where may I seek the Marks by which he may be discover'd ? Would it not force a Smile to have this Answer ? Do you ask that ? Why Friend , the Marks and the Man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his Face . Would he not be made much the Wiser , by this grave Reply ; and forthwith be able to find out the Man he seeks for , by this goodly Direction ? Or would he not say , Sir , I came not to be informed of that which every one that is not a stark Fool understands as well as your Worship ; but I would know , what are those Marks which are to be seen in his Face , and by which I may know him from your self , or any other , and where are they describ'd ? And will not the other , if he be able and willing to inform him , then tell him , the Marks are in the Gazette , and there you may find them . Now , which is to be found out first , the Marks or the Man ? And what are those Marks , and where must I seek them ? Surely it needs no Application . As for his Triumphant Marks of the Church , he may find them answered to purpose in the Book not long since published upon that Argument . 'T is also observable at what a distance these men are from the true Church , who conceive it so hard to find her out . All holy Fathers ever judged it a most easy thing to each Person , insomuch that the Holy Doctor St. Augustin thus delivers his Sense of it : I tell you with truth , Brethren , the Prophets have spoken more obscurely of Christ , than of the Church ; I believe , because they saw in Spirit , that men would make Sects against the Church , but would not be so much divided about Christ . But 't is natural for a Crimnal to question the Power of his Judge ; and these men know it hath ever been the Sense of all Christians , which St. Augustin exprest in the following Words ; There is no Salvation out of the Church , who doubts of it ? Therefore whatever you have from the Church ( Seripture , Creed , Sacraments , &c ) help you not to Salvation out of the Church , whether you believe contrary to the Truth , or being divided from the Vnity , gather not with Christ ; whence St. Paul says to Heretics , Those who do such things , shall not possess the Kingdom of Heaven . He saith , 'T is observable at what a distance Men are from the true Church , who conceive it so hard to find it out . But our distance from the true Church , is not the more , because we conceive it so hard to find her out in their way , and by such Marks ( which if there are no other ) it 's impossible to find her out by . But now , if we go in St. Austins way , then it 's not difficult , for thus he determines it . The weak seeks for the Church . The wandring seeks for the Church . I inquire after the Voice of the Pastor . Read this to me out of the Prophet , and read it out of the Psalms ; recite it from the Law , the Gospel , the Apostle . Look for it in the Scripture , and there you will find it . Here the Prover cites a Passage out of St. Austin , which I am confident he did not read there . For ( 1. ) he quotes the 4 th Book of St. Austin , de Vnitate , whereas there is but one Book in all . ( 2. ) There are several mistakes in the Quotation it self . As he saith , There is no Salvation out of the Church , who doubts of it ? Whereas the Words of St. Austin are , Qui autem super arenam aedificant [ i. e. qui audiunt Verba & non faciunt , as just before ] quis dubitaverit , quod regnum Dei non possidebunt ? That is , But those who build upon the sand , who doubts that they shall not possess the Kingdom of Heaven ? Again the Prover reads it , Whatever you have from the Church ( Scripture , Creed , Sacraments , &c. ) help you not to Salvation out of the Church . Whereas there is nothing of this , but it follows after what was said of the builders on the sand , Nihil utique prodest Baptismi Sacramentum , that is , So that the Sacrament of Baptism profits not such . And then he quotes that of St. Paul , Those which do such things , &c. without that other Insertion of his , Whether you believe contrary to the Truth , &c. The matters are not much material ; but by this the Reader may judg what a careless , injudicious , or confident ( to say no worse ) Adversary I have to deal with . His other Queries have no difficulty , and withal so little of Sense , that I shall not offer to force my Readers Attention on them . Whether the other Queries had any Sense , I shall leave to others to judg ; but however , because they may not be so easie to others , as to himself , it is to be wished he had shewed a little more of his good Nature , and Condescendency , to have resolved them . I shall try once again , whether I can make sense of them , and leave him to try whether he can answer them : If they are not Sense , they are not to be understood , and so there can be no hurt to Propose them : If they have no difficulty , they are the easier and the sooner answered . The Queries Propounded in the Answer , and yet remaining to be resolved , are these . Q. 1. What those Necessaries to Salvation are , that are not contained in Scripture , and where each of them is to be found ? Q. 2. Whether the Articles of Pope Pius's Creed joined to the Nicene Creed , are as clearly to be proved from Scripture , as those of the Nicene Creed ; or that those of the Nicene Creed are no more to be proved from Scripture , than those of Pope Pius ? Q. 3. Whether it 's as necessary to believe the Church of Rome is the Mother and Mistress of all Churches , and the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ , and all the other Articles of that Creed , of Pope Pius , as it is to believe that our Lord Jesus was Incarnate , and the rest of the Articles of the Nicene Creed ? Q. 4. Which has the first and Supreme Authority , the Scripture or the Church ? Q. 5. Whether the Church can ordain new Articles of Faith , and which when so ordained , are as much to be received and believed , as those which have their Authority immediately from Scripture ? Q. 6. Which is to be sought for first , the Notes , or the Church that is to be found out by these Notes ? If the Church , then how shall I know it ? If the Notes , where must I seek them ? Q. 7. If the Church be to be an Infallible Guide , when it 's found out ; then what is the Guide that will infallibly lead to the Church ? And whether is that Guide to be sought for within the Church , or without it ? Q. 8. Whether we may be infallibly certain out of the Church ; or how we can find out the Church infallibly , if the Church alone be infallible , and that we cannot be infallibly certain till we come into the Church ? Q. 9. Where is the Seat of Infallibility in the Church , whether in every particular Person , or the Supreme Pastor , or a General Council ? And whether they all agree in this matter ? Q. 10. Whether what they disagree in can be the Sentiment of the whole Church ; or that we are hound to believe what they cannot agree in ? Q. 11. Whether we are any more bound to believe the Infallibility of their Church , which they thus disagree in , than the Address would perswade us we are not obliged to believe the Trinity , because the Arians , tho Christians , deny it ? Q. 12. How one at a vast distance of Time or Place , can be infallibly assured of the Certainty of those Decrees which are said to proceed from an Infallible Power ; or that he can be any more certain of the Truth , Certainty , and Sense of these , than he can be of the Truth , Authority , and Sense of Scripture ? Q. 13. Whether our Saviour has not spoken as plainly and intelligibly in Scripture , as his pretended Vicar , or their Councils have done in their Decrees and Canons ? Q. 14. Whether , when the Persons that publish or give the Sense of those Decrees and Canons are Fallible , a Person can be infallibly certain that these are the very Decrees , or that the true Sense of them ? Or whether a Person in these Circumstances can be any more certain , tho a Member of an Infallible Church , than another may be , that is a Member of a Fallible Church ? Q. 15. Whether , for example , we can be any more certain that there ever was such a Pope as Pope Pius , or that ever there was such a Creed drawn up by him , or that this or that is an Article , or the Sense of it , than we are that the Scriptures are the Word of God , and that the Doctrines of the Trinity and Incarnation are clearly contained in them ? These are the Questions in the Answer , and which I have drawn out in order ; I hope they shew themselves to be Sense ; it remains to the Prover to shew they have no difficulty to be resolved . All well-meaning Protestants finding that Scripture interpreted the Protestant-way is so far from being an easie and clear Rule of Faith , that a Protestant in the Answer to an Address made to the Ministets of the Church of England , approved by a Chaplain to the highest Ecclesiastical Authority under the King , cannot as much as teach by it the first Principles of Christian Religion ; will seek a better method of using that Divine Rule , and not be hereafter so easily imposed upon by those Guides who give them but their own private fancies , under the Veil and Name of the Word of God. I was ( I confess ) surprized to find Guil. Needham , &c. approving this Answer ; but God and Truth are of our side ; Et inimici nostri sunt Judices ; the weakness of our Opposers Arguments bear a proof to it . Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam . I may now leave the case to all well-meaning Protestants ; for who that is of that number , or indeed is impartial , but may soon discern , who they are that make the Scripture a Rule of Faith ; Whether those that resolve all Necessaries to Salvation wholly into it , or those that join Tradition with it in Esteem and Authority ? They may again as soon discern , Whether the Scripture be Easie and Clear , and best understood in the Protestant Method , when it 's Translated for Vulgar use in the Mother Tongue , and the People are allowed and exhorted to read it ; or in the Popish Method , when it 's kept in an unknown Tongue , or if Translated , not permitted to be read by them ? Whether again They feed them with their own private Fancies , that teach the people nothing but what both Teacher and Hearer learn from Scripture ; or they that make things necessary to be believed and done , which are not contained in Scripture ? I find our Author surpriz'd to find Guil. Needham , a Chaplain to the highest Eeclesiastical Authority under the King ( we know who they are that set up an Ecclesiastical Authority above the King ) to approve the Answer . But why so surprized ? When it 's likely G. N. was as confident as the Prover could be on his own , that God and Truth are on the Answerer's side ; and perhaps might have a good opinion of his Performance , though I grant , it 's likely , not as good as our Author hath of his own Clear Proof . Here I should have ended , but it seems the poor Answer has met with another Adversary , one ( as he himself tells us ) that at a full , mixed Assembly in the City so laid it open , that most of the Protestants there ashamed of it , found no better Salvo than to disown the Answerer as an Ignorant Scribler , who had betrayed his Cause . I wish this successful Undertaker had but given us a Breviate of the Case as he propounded it to that Assembly ; for if he managed it in the same way as his Friend the Prover has done , or as he himself has answered the Preservative , sometimes omitting , sometimes mangling , and at all times Misrepresenting his Adversaries Arguments , I will for once excuse my Friends the Protestants , if they then thought the Answerer worthy of no better a Character than is here related ; who I hope for the future they will have less reason to believe an Adversary ; and use that kind of liberty , which the Church of Rome so much envies them , and belongs to them as Men and as Christians , and judg for themselves , by seeing with their own eyes , whether the Cause is maintained or betrayed . But after all , I know not whether I may not have as little reason to believe him concerning these Protestants , as they had to believe him concerning the Answer . FINIS . Books lately Printed for Richard Chiswell . THE Incurable Scepticism of the Church of Rome . By the Author of the [ Six Conferences concerning the Eucharist . ] 4 o. Mr Pulton Considered in his Sincerity , Reasonings , Authorities : Or a Just Answer to what he hath hitherto published in his True Account ; his True and Full Account of a Conference , &c. His Remarks ; and in them his pretended Confutation of what he calls Dr. T 's Rule of Faith. By Th. Tenison , D. D. A Full View of the Doctrines and Practices of the Ancient Church relating to the Eucharist , wholly different from those of the Present Roman Church , and inconsistent with the belief of Transubstantiation . Being a sufficient Confutation of Consensus Veterum , Nubes Testium , and other late Collections of the Fathers pretending to the Contrary . 4 o. An Answer to the Representer's Reflections upon the State and View of the Controversy ; With a Reply to the Vindicator's Full Answer , shewing that the Vindicator has utterly ruin'd the New Design of Expounding and Representing Popery . 4 o. An Answer to the Popish Address presented to the Ministers of the Church of England , 4 o. An Abridgment of the Prerogatives of St. Ann , Mother of the Mother of God , with the Approbations of the Doctors of Paris , thence done into English , with a PREFACE concernining the Original of the Story . The Primitive Fathers no Papists , in Answer to the Nubes Testium ; to which is added , a Discourse concerning Invocation of Saints , in Answer to the Challenge of F. Sabran the Jesuit ; wherein is shewn , that Invocation of Saints was so far from being the Practice , that it was expresly against the Doctrine of the Primitive Fathers . 4 o. An Answer to a Discourse concerning the Celibacy of the Clergy , lately Printed at Oxford . 4 o. The Virgin Mary Misrepresented by the Roman Church , In the Traditions of that Church concerning her Life and Glory , and in the Devotions paid to her as the Mother of God. Both shewed out of the Offices of that Church , the Lessons on her Festivals , and from their allowed Authors . Dr. Tenisons Sermon of Discretion in giving Alms. 12 o. A Discourse concering the Merits of Good Works . The Enthusiasm of the Church of Rome , demonstrated in some Observations upon the Life of Ignatius Loyola , ( Founder of the Order of Jesus ) . A Vindication of the Answer to the Popish Address presented to the Ministers of the Church of England . 4 o. Reflections upon the Books of the Holy Scripture , in order to establish the Truth of the Christian Religion , in 3 Parts . 8 vo . In the Press . The Texts which the Papists cite out of the Bible for Proof of the Points of their Religion , Examin'd , and shew'd to be alledged without Ground . In several distinct Discourses , Five whereof are published , viz. Popery not founded in Scripture . The Introduction . Texts concerning the Obscurity of Holy Scripture . — Of the Insufficiency of Scripture , and Necessity of Tradition . — Of the Supremacy of St. Peter , and the Pope , over the whole Church . In Two Parts . — Of Infallibility . The Rest will follow Weekly , in their Order . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A66432-e220 Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . De Praesc . Ep. 7. Vindication . De verbo non Scripto l. 4. c. 12. SS . dico secundo Script . Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . De Doctr. Ch. l. 2. c. 9. Vindication . Contr. Liter . Petiliani . l. 3. c. 6. Clear Proof . Vindication . De Verbo l. 4. c. 10. ss . Respondeo ad primum . De Verbo , l. 4. c. 10. ss . Neque . Ut supra . C. 12. ss . Respondeo ad . C. 11. ss . Septimo . Clear Proof . 1 Tim. 6. 20. 2 Tim. 1. 13. Vindication . Cap. 10. 8. Quod autem . Clear Proof . Luc. 10. 25. Luc. 16. 29. Vindication . Clear proof . Mat. 7. 15. In Jo. l. 1. c. 4. L. 4. de Bapt. cont . Don c. 16. L 2 ▪ con . Gaud. In Dim . H. Vindication . De Verbo l. 4. c. 4. ss . septimo . De Unit. Eccles . c. 18. C 19. Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . Vindication . De Christo l. 1. c. 4 , &c. De Christo l. 1. c. 4. ss . Quod autem . De Christo l. 1. c. 6. ss . Secundo probo . Clear Proof . Vindication . Epist . Imper. Theod. n. 6. Concil . Tom. 4. Ad Monach. Aegypt . ss . 12. Clear Proof . Gen. 2. 3. Vindication . Epist . 118. Contr. Adimant . c. 16. Nova Collectio Concil . Baluz . p. 10. Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . Cc. 2. in Psal . 30. De Vnit . Eccl. l 4. c. 8. Gal. 5. Vindication . De Pastore , c. 14. Clear Proof . Vindication . Clear Proof . Vindication . An Answer to Dr. Sherlock's Preservative .