Anterōtēmata Thomæ Draks Ten counter-demaunds propounded to those of the separation, (or English Donatists) to be directly, and distinctly answered. Draxe, Thomas, d. 1618. 1617 Approx. 11 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2003-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A20807 STC 7186A ESTC S105375 99841104 99841104 5663 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A20807) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 5663) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1170:24) Anterōtēmata Thomæ Draks Ten counter-demaunds propounded to those of the separation, (or English Donatists) to be directly, and distinctly answered. Draxe, Thomas, d. 1618. [8] p. Printed by W. Jones, [London : 1617?] Caption title, first word in Greek characters. Imprint from STC. Signatures: A⁴. Running title reads: Ten counterdemaunds. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Brownists -- Controversial literature. 2003-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-04 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-06 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2003-06 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-08 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Αντεροτεματα Thomae Dra●i . TEN COVNTERDEMAVNDS PROpounded to those of the Separation , ( or English Donatists ) to be directly , and distinctly answered . 1. WHether , that their rent , Schisme , and Separation from the Church and Congregations of England , can ( in any probabilitie ) bee pleasing vnto God , seeing , it hath had such vnhappy beginnings , the a first founder of it , comming to Iudas his shamefull and fearfull ende , hanging himselfe : and the b second totally recanting it , and reioyning himselfe to our Church , as diuers of their proselites doe daily : seeing also it hath had so small encreases , and so many dismall and fatall euents , and diuisions : one side excommunicating the other , some of them turning Anabaptists , and c others dying and distracted , by reason of irresolution . 2. Whether , that the quintessenced profession , Religion and discipline of these Nouations and Innouators , as it standeth in opposition to the Church of England , and the rest of the reformed Churches ) can bee of God , or , haue any approbation from God , seeing that it hath no vertue , power and efficacy in it ( as the Gospell preached in our English assemblies by Gods blessing aboundantly hath ) to winne , conuert , and drawe vnto their partie and profession , Atheists , Pap●sts , Heretikes , rude , profane and ignorant people : The Apostles , Euangelists , and ther holy successors , conuerted all sorts vnto God , but these refined reformers , onely seduce the sound , and peruert and estrange from vs , those , that are otherwise well affected , and of some vnderstanding and make them twofold more refractary then themselues . 3. Whether that ( in the very separatists conscience ) our reformed assemblies , ( wherein the Gospell of Christ is sincerely preached and professed , and the Sacraments duly and rightly administred ) are worse then the Iewes Synagogues , in which notwithstanding Christ his Apostles preached ; & our Ministers , worse then the Scribes and Pharisees , that sat in Moses Chaire , when Christ commandeth the people to heare , and obserue and doe , whatsoeuer ( according to Moses Lawe ) they did bid them obserue . Wherefore ( to reason à minore ad maius ) if our Lord Iesus , his Disciples , and the people did not separate from their Synagogues and assemblies , that were in faith and maners farre more defectiue then ours are , much lesse ought they to separate from our Church and assemblies , wherein , all the grounds of Christian Religion are soundly held , and professed . 4. Whether that those great multitudes of people ( though hitherto wanting the pretended Church-constitution of the Separatists ) that euen fasting heard our Lord Iesus preach , and professed themselues his Disciples , ( albeit many of them were drawen , not by doctrine but by miracles , report , & with a desire to be fed ) can with any reason bee denied to bee members of the visible Church , and whither those three thousands which blessed Peter at one Sermon conuerted ( for they were baptized , continued in the Apostles doctrine , fellowship , breaking of bread and praiers . ) were not , before that Presbyters and Deacons were chosen , true members of a visible Church , and this cannot bee refuted , and why are not our Church assemblies in England , ( much more grounded in the truth ) &c. a true visible Church ? and then with what conscience , doe , or can these Separatists sequester and rent themselues from them ? 5. Whether , ( to ascend no higher , and neerer the Apostles to me as I might ) that in Constantines the first Christian Emperours time , and euer since vnto Mr. Iohn Caluins dayes , for the space of some thirteene hundred yeares , there was no Christian Churches in Asia , Africke , Europe , because they had the same outward constitution formal State , Bishops , Arch-bishops , Metropolitans , & Church-gouernment ( for substance and substance of doctrine ) that our English Church hath , and retaineth . And if those were true visible Churches , why are not ours ( also ? ) 6. Whether , that the reformed Churches in the lower , and higher Germany , in France , the Church of Geneua &c. ( that come neerer to their constitution and discipline , then ours doe in England , ) bee true visible Churches , or no ? if they be such , why then doe they not adioyne themselues to some of them , but distast them as much as they doe ours ? And why doe they not in iudgment assent vnto any or all of those reformed Churches , that with a ioynt consent ( as may appeare by the harmonie of Confession ) acknowledge the Church of England to be a true visible Church , and giue vnto it the right-hand of fellowship ? how dare they refuse such a cloude of witnesses ? will these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 put out all their eyes ? is there no Church in the world but their Platonicall Idea ? 7. How can the Church , or , Church-assemblies of England , bee false , Antichristian , bastardized , wherein the Gospell , is so soundly and solemnly and substantially taught and professed , and the Sacraments , so rightly administred and receiued , whose Bible translations , ( specially the last English translation done by his Maiesty command ) are so pure , that the very Separatists rest in them : wherein are so many thousands , yea hundred thousands of true Converts and orthodoxe Christians , that hath bred and brought forth so many excellent and renowned Martyrs , who haue sealed the trueth of our religion with their bloud , and died members of the protestant Churches ; wherein so many Christian exiles are comfortably harboured , wherein so many sound , religious and learned Pastors , Doctors , Preachers , as ( for proportion ) no Country in the world can afford the like ; and by whose doctrine , writings , disputes , ( not to speake of the Magistrates sword ) the Romish Ierico hath bin more shaken , and the second beast the Antichrist , more fatally wounded , then by any nationall Church whatsoeuer : and which Church , and the members thereof , haue beene so wonderfully blessed and protected , and so strangly deliuered from the rage , tumults , designes , treasons , conspiracies of the Romish Antichrist and all his adherents : and in which Churches ( as one of the princiall Separatists I. R. in his admonition ad lectorem , in his owne name and in the name of his faction , lately prefixed before the third booke of M. Robert Parker , de politia ecclesi . pag. 368. confesseth , that the grace of God by the Gospell , in respect of the cheife heads of true Christian faith , by diuers of the faithfull preached , doth so abound , that there are very many godly and holy men in these assemblies , both of Reformitants and Conformitants , which they acknowledge for brethren in Christ &c. We haue ( by their owne confession ) sound faith , and holinesse , why then doe they or how dare they sunder and rent themselues from such a Church , and why will they for accidents and circumstances , denie and renounce the substance of a Church ? And if they ( vpon bettercōsideration ) estcēc vs brethren , with what warrant cā they seperate from holy brethren in Christ , is it not good and pleasant for to see brethren to dwell together in vnitie ? Did not the conuerts in S. Peters dayes continue dayly with one accord in the Temple &c. And why doe not our Separatists who would be accounted conuerted Saints , imitate them , must wee leaue and forsake a goodly Cittie , for the weaknesse of the walls ? 8. How can the formall state ( as they call it ) of the Prouinciall , Diocesan , Cathedrall & Parishionall Churches of England , and the regiment thereof , be vnlawfull , papall , Antichristian ? And how doe , or , can the Lawes of the land , and Ecclesiasticall Cannons confirme it ? seeing that the name , calling & office of B B : whether we respect ordination of ministers or power of iurisdiction , is ( as hath ben , & will be proued ) for substance expressed in diuers places of the new Testament ; seeing , it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time to this day , as all auncient Fathers and Counsells acknowledge : and seeing that ( at least ) this formall estate of Diocesan , Parishionall and Cathedrall Churches , hath bin in vse , long before Antichrist was hatched , for the Pope was not Antichrist before he had gotten the Title of vniuersall Bishop , nor complete vntill he had gotten into his hands both swords , that is , both Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall Dominion : Doth not euery Bishop amongst vs , euery Pastor and ecclesiasticall officer , abiure the Prpes vsurped supremacie ? Doe not our statutes , and Cannons directly make againg papistry and Idolafry ? What will Sathan expell Sathan , and will the members of Antichrist fight against Antichrist ? And admitt all bee , as you pretend , doe we not ( at least ) kill Antichrist with his owne sword and weapons ? 9. Whether , any new lawes can , or ought to be enacted , or any further reformation made without the Christian Princes or Magistrates consent , or euer in a well ordered Church hath bene enacted , or made and whether , they haue done well , to seperate with out the Kings Maiesties leaue and licence , and consent of the state ? 10. Whether , it were not the separatists best course , to returne to Gods true Church and people , from which ( vpon some concealed hard dealing ) they haue made an vnlawfull rent , and therein to confer with the best learned , and if still their consciences be somewhat tender , to supplicate for some fauour and liberty , or if they will not take this course , whether it were not good for them , for the avoiding of scandall , and in expectance of some prosperous successe , by the permission of our noble King , and honourable Counsell to remoue into Virginia , and make a plantation there , in hope to conuert infidels to Christianitie ? FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A20807-e10 Maister Bolton . Maister Browne . Maister Nowell of Sheldon in Warwicke-shire &c. Mat. 23. v. 2. 3. Mat. 14. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. Ioh. 6. 5. 10. 11. Ioh. 6. 27. Act. 2. 37. 38. 41. Act , 2. 46. Anno. 1607.