The Baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled The Quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by William Smith. Smith, William, d. 1673. 1673 Approx. 49 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A60617 Wing S4289 ESTC R34257 14171306 ocm 14171306 102149 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A60617) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 102149) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1070:24) The Baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled The Quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by William Smith. Smith, William, d. 1673. 23 p. s.n.], [London : 1672/3. Imperfect: pages stained. Reproduction of original in the Union Theological Seminary Library, New York. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Baptists -- Controversial literature. Society of Friends -- Apologetic works. 2005-04 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-05 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-06 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-06 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE BAPTISTS SOPHISTRY DISCOVERED : In a Brief Answer to a late Pamphlet , Entituled , The Quak 〈…〉 Subterfuge or Evasion Overturned . Wherein all people may plainly see how Unjustly the Baptists deal with the Quakers , and how Strongly they 〈…〉 d their Bow , and shoot their Arrows at them without a Cause . Published to give Satisfaction unto all who simply desire to know the Truth . By William Smith . He that deviseth to do Evil , shall be called , A Mischievous Pers●● Prov. 248. If any man among you seem to be Religious , and bridleth not his Tongue , but deceiveth his own heart , this man's Religion is vain , Jam. 1. 86 Printed in the Year , 1672 / 3 THE Baptists Sophistry DISCOVERED , &c. IF Necessity did not constrain me to enter upon this present Concernment , I could willingly have been silent in the Matter : but as I see the Baptists so violently prosecuting their Design 〈◊〉 the People called Quakers , and so furiously endeavouring 〈…〉 der them and their Principles the most obnoctious , I feel a weight upon me to appear at this time on the behalf of those People and their Principles ; for I dearly own and love such as are called by that Name , who are Faithful to that Light with which Christ Jesus doth enlighten them : And I certainly know ( with many more ) That whosoever are Faithful to the Light of Christ Within , that they are Led and Guided by it out of Darkness , and from under the Power of Satan ; and so come to walk in him who is the Way to the Father , and partake of the Grace and Truth that comes by him ; and herein we can stand with Boldness against all the Calumniations which you Baptists endeavour to cast upon us : for we shall not own any of your oblique or crooked Envy , though you would impose it unavoidably upon us in your account . But I shall not be large by way of Introduction , but come to the Matter intended , which though seemingly carry'd on by Ralph James only , yet believ'd , that he was not without some assistance in mannaging his Work ; but however , the Matter was composed either by him , or others for him , we do not much regard it : for we certainly know , That the Head of the Serpent must be broken by that Seed which is Blessed forever ; and though for a time the Serpent may bruise the Heel of that which is to break his Head , yet his Head must be broken by it , and his Authority fall before it ; for the Seed must Raign according to Promise ; yea , it doth Raign , and is glorified over the Serpent and his Enmity : Everlasting Praises be unto him that lives forever . And now , Ralph James , I shall come to thy Matter ; and the Reason why I call it thine is , because I do not find any other Name subscribed ; and so I shall only take notice of thee , as being the Subscriber : and as to what hath been already answered to thy Procacity , or what may by any other hand be replyed to what I have in Consideration , which may be termed thy Proclivity to thy first Matter , I shall leave it to its own Method , and speak distinctly to the most considerable Matters , as to thy last Portraiture . Come then , and duly observe thy own Proceedings ; and be more ready to hear , then to offer the Sacrifice of Fools : For , how hast thou endeavoured to make the Nation believe , through what thou hast offered and sacrificed , That the Quakers are a Deluded People ; and that of 〈◊〉 it must be so , from something that happened between Richard A 〈…〉 son of Panton in Lincolnshire , and thy self , as thou assertest ? and in that particular Matter thou hast concern'd the whole Society of the People called Quakers ; and hast endeavoured to insinuate their Principles and Practices to be the same with that which thou chargest upon R. A. to be Erroneous : And hast not thou appeared very insolent in this thy Folly ? For , what man of Prudence and Humility would have concern'd a whole Society of People with a particular Matter of a particular Person ( supposing the thing to be true ) when he never was in Society or Fellowship with them at any time ? But I shall proceed to try thy own way of proving R. A. to be a Quaker ; for that is the most principal to be taken notice of , as being the very Basis upon which thou and thy Brethren have raised your Structure ; and if the Basis or Foundation be Falsly and Deceitfully laid , then the Structure or Building will fall of it self , to the Shame of the Builders ; and therefore I shal examine the most considerable Passages which thou hast produced to prove R. A. a Quaker . And First , To the Reader thou sayst , That R. A. did attempt the Propagation of the Principles of the Quakers by denouncing a Curse upon thee in the Name of the Lord , only because of that Testimony which upon just Occasion thou wast ready to bear against their Errors . Reply , It is not the Quakers Principles to denounce Curses in the Name of the Lord , and therefore R. A. did not Propagate their Principles in doing so ; if so he did , and for thy Testimony against their Errors , it was like the Testimony of the Unbelieving Jews against Christ and his Apostles , if thou didst bear any Testimony of that Nature : But thou hast manifest nothing further to satisfie any people , that R. A. did propagate the Quakers Principles , or of thy own Testimony against their Errors , but thy bare word , who art neither a competent Witness or Judge in the Case , and so no cause to believe that R. A. was a Quaker . 2dly , Thou goest on to query , What man of Reason will believe , that any man should voluntarily accuse himself , and complain of the Hand of the Lord , and what he could propose to himself , & c ? And then concludest , saying , Surely in vain do men go about to out-face a thing so manifest . Rep. Tho●●●●uld have queried these things , and been satisfied concerning 〈◊〉 , before thou hadst endeavoured to have made R. A. a Quaker , and to fall upon the Quakers with such Violence from thy supposing him to be such a one ; this would have manifest more Wisdom and Peace , then to send thy Stories abroad into the Nation with such Confidence as not to be disputed against ; and now forced to query , Why R. A. should do so ? Surely in vain hast thou wrought all this , while in thy dark Imaginations , who art now querying after the Ground or Cause of R. A's accusing himself , and of his proposals to himself : Is this the thing thou countest so manifest , that it is in vain for any man to go about to out-face it ? Is that manifest which lies obscure ? and is not that obscure which cannot be demonstrated ? And here the Face of Truth can look upon thee , and Shame may cover thy own ; for thou hast manifest thy Folly , as not knowing the state of R. A. and yet wouldst make him a Quaker . 3dly , Thou say'st , Seeing then that it cannot be denyed , but R. A. was led by the spirit of Falshood , and Prophesied falsly in the Name of the Lord , &c. Rep. How doth the matter appear so undeniable , seeing it lies only betwixt R. A. & thy self ? may not a thing be justly deny'd til it can be proved by some others then the Parties concerned ; and thou hast produced no such Proof , and yet say'st , it cannot be deny'd ; and so thou mayst maintain a thing upon any terms , if that must be of necessity believed which thou sayst can't be deny'd : And if R. A. was led by the Spirit of Falshood , what doth that concern the Quakers ? Must he needs be a Quaker because he was led by such a spirit , as thou sayst ? Surely thou and thy Brethren had need put on more Charity , that you might walk in Love ; for the Quakers never used a shift to help R. A. though falsly charged with it from your dark Conclusion . 4thly , Thou sayst , Thou hast not wronged thy Conscience in all thou hast said , nor designed any Evil against the Persons of the Quakers ; but only to make Discovery of the False Wayes they have chosen , that so they might escape from thence , and be saved . Rep. Thou hast put on a large measure of 〈…〉 fidence , that darest justifie thy self in all thou hast said , and a 〈…〉 sens 〈…〉 that thou hast wrong'd thy Conscience in any thing tho● hast said ; this manner of boasting gives just cause to suspect that thou castest the Reproof of Christ behind thy back ; for if it were not so , thou wouldst meet with Convictions in thy Conscience for what thou hast said against the Quakers , and wouldst be sensible that thou hast wronged thy Conscience in what thou hast said : and for any Design of Evil against the Quakers Persons , thou canst not hide thy Design under such a Covering , for as thou design'st against our Principles , we know thou dost not design any good to our Persons ; and for thy discovery of our false wayes , as thou termest them , thou hast only discover'd thy own Polly ; and therefore we shall not forsake our Wayes , in which we are sav'd , to come into thy ways to be condemned : And so stop thy mouth for speaking of our Wayes ; for thou art a Stranger to them , and canst not make the least Discovery of them . 5thly , Thou sayst , Thou dost not pretend to work Miracles ; and that thou knowest thou Sin'st not in what thou hast published , but hast more cause to think thou shouldst have Sin'd in concealing it . Rep. Thou hast affirmed a Miracle wrought by the Prayers of thee and thy Congregation , and now thou dost not pretend to such a thing : If thou hadst Faith that God would answer thy Prayers , thou must needs pretend to do the thing according to thy Faith , or otherwise , thou hadst no Faith , and so no such thing done by thee and thy Congregation , as thou hast affirmed ; for no such thing was ever done without Faith ; and if it was really done , what needst thou be ashamed to pretend to it ? But here thou wouldst go retrogade to cover thy self , where thou hast moved too forwardly : but this Matter may fall to be answer'd more fully afterwards . And as for what thou know'st , in not sinning in what thou hast declar'd ; thou canst not take away the Guilt with thy words ; for as thou hast concern'd the Quakers and their Principles by declaring against them , thou hast sin'd in a high degree , and the Lord will not hold thee guiltless . And for sinning if thou hadst conceal'd it , thou canst not clear thy self from that Guilt 〈…〉 for t●●●●ast conceal'd it Eight or Nine Years , and so hast sin'd all t●●t time by thy own Conclusion ; and thou hadst need Repent , before it be too late . 6thly , Thou sayst , The Quakers have a faculty to Accuse beyond their Ability to Prove . Rep. Take this to thy self , for the Quakers are not concern'd in it ; and hast not thou accused the Quakers beyond thy Ability to prove thy Accusations ? prove ( if thou canst ) what thou hast publickly accus'd them with ; and if thou canst not do it , then is it not an Unmanly Faculty in thee , to slander them with thy Accusations . Come Ralph , thou hast made a Stage to play thy part , and thou hast appeared upon it to infest the Nation with thy Infidelity ; but the Power of the Lord God is ever thee , and thy stage and thee must fall together , & so I have done with thy matter to the Reader . I shal now go on as to what thou bringst for Proof , to make good thy Affirmation of R. A's being a Quaker ; and when I have done with that matter , as it is scatter'd in thy Book , I shall take notice of thy Narrative , and some other things , which are most considerable , wherein thou hast concern'd the Quakers and their Principles : for neither thee , nor any that have assisted thee , that can Discouraged the Quakers in their Innocency : and I shall come to the matter I have premised . Page 10. Thou sayst , But since the Quakers in their Lying-Wonder , do so boldly deny , that he ( viz. ) R. A. was a Quaker ; hear therefore what is attested in that case , June 17. 1672. since the publication of the Quakers Lying-Wonder , in the presence of credible Witnesses hereafter named ; and ( thou sayst ) it was demanded of R. A. whether he ever heard the Quakers ? he answerd , Yes , he heara them at Lincoln , within the Prison , about the space of an Hour : And then thou sayst , It is known by sad Experience , that many in as little time as that is , have been so leaven'd with their Principles , as that they have not been cleansed from the Corruption thereof to the day of their Death . Rep. The Quakers might very boldly deny R. A. to be a quaker , and thou canst not prove that he was one ; but thou sayst , Hear what is attested in that case , in the presence of credible ●●●nesses ▪ Well , we are willing to hear what is attested ; but we m●●● ask thee , Who did attest it ? did any other attest it besides R. A. ? No : And what did he attest ? That he heard the Quakers at Lincoln about the space of an hour : Well , and what then ? must he therefore be a Quaker ? see what he hath attested ; he did not say , He was a Quaker by hearing them the space of an hour : But thou sayst , It is known by sad Experience , &c. Come Ralph , thou must not thus abuse us , by telling us of credible Witnesses , and then make thy own Conclusions : and hast thou been puttering all this while about proving R. A. to be a Quakers , & art as far to seek in thy third pamphlet as in thy first ; for there was as good Proof to what R. A. said in thy first , as there is in this ; and we do not question the credit of the Witnesses in what they might hear R. A. say or confess ; but we question thy Conclusions , That because he might hear the Quakers about an Hour , that therefore he must be a Quaker , because many ( as thou sayst ) in as little time have been leaven'd with their Principles , as they have not been cleansed from the Corruption to the day of their Death . How absurd art thou in thy Conclusion ? for if all that have heard the Quakers one hour or two , must therefore be Quakers , because of such time hearing them , then should we be many more in number then we are : but there are several have heard the Quakers many hours , who are not Quakers from such their hearing ; & if some in less time have receiv'd the Truth by them declared , Must it needs follow , that R. A. did so ? Is this an Infallible Conclusion , that R. A. was a Quaker ? And whereas thou sayst , It is known by sad Experience : I ask thee , Who ever came to thee to make known their Sad Experience , after they had received the Truth of the Gospel , by the Quakers declared ? Instance any ( if thou canst ) that we may know the Sad Experience of such as have been exercised therein : But these are terms of thy own forming , to lay a Stumbling block in the way of the Simple : and we know , that a little Leaven leaveneth the whole Lump ; and whosoever receive the Quakers Principles to be leaven'd by them , they are cleansed from Corruption , and are not corrupted , as thou concludest in thy vain mind : for , is the Light of Christ Corruptible ? or doth it corrupt such as receive it , and live in it ? But we certainly know , the True Seed in thee ( and many more of you ) is in Bondage to Corruption , and that the Lord of Life is crucified in spiritual Sodom and Egypt . Thou sayst , That R. A. further shewed , that before he was at the Meeting at Lincoln , and after also , he had discourse with the People called Quakers Forty times touching their Principles ; and after he had been with the Quakers , he went to the Meeting at North-Willingham many times , to Contend against the Baptists more then for any thing else . Rep. What dost thou stand telling us what R. A. shewed ; for it is not hearing the Quakers an Hour , or discoursing with them Forty or a Hundred times , touching their Principles , that makes him a Quaker , no more then several Jews hearing Christ and his Apostles , and discoursing with them touching their Principles , made them Christians : and if he came to contend with thee and you at your Meeting , what doth that concern the Quakers ? this is poor stuff to come forth in Print from a pastor . Thou sayst , That he R. A. declared , without any Inquiry , that the Reason why he went to pronounce thee a Leper , arose from the Consideration of a Passage , Num. 12. and that he looked upon the People called Quakers to be as eminently owned of God as Moses ; so he was perswaded , God would send the same Judgement on thee for contending against the Quakers , as he sent on Miriam for contending with Moses . Attested ( sayst thou ) by , Christopher Foster , William Skine , John Walesby , Robert Trigg , Richard Horton . Rep. Dost thou infer from this Matter , that Richard Anderson was a Quaker ? Canst thou , or any man , rationally draw such a Conclusion ? For though he might , without any Inquiry , declare all this thou speak'st of , yet it doth not make him a Quaker , according to the Blessed Truth in which they live . And for his Perswasion concerning the Judgment coming upon thee for contending against the Quakers , it was only to himself , and the Quakers cannot be charged with it , nor he made a Quaker by it . But still to strengthen thy own hands thou tell'st us , The last Passage Richard Anderson did again relate almost word for word in the Presence of Christopher Foster aforesaid , and three Strangers , which came out of Oxfordshire to have Satisfaction concerning the Narrative ; at which time also , being asked by these Strangers concerning the Truth of the Narrative , he said . As to the Substance of it , it was all Truth , and that he would own it before any man. And this ( thou sayst ) is subscribed by , The Oxfordshire Strangers . William Greenwood , John Scuchbury , John Grammar , and by Christopher Foster , as Ear-Witnesses . Rep. What is there in all this to make R. A. a Quaker ? Must his saying or confessing , That the Substance of the Narrative was all Truth , make him a Quaker ? Truly the Oxfordshiro Strangers could not receive much Satisfaction from what R. A. said or confessed , if they desired to know and be satisfied whether he was a Quaker . Thou sayst , The same general Testimony of the Truth of the Narrative , or the Substance of it , he the said R. A. did deliver at another time , a few dayes before the last-mentioned , in the Presence of , Christopher Foster , William Skine , John Walesby , Robert Trigg , Richard Horton , Rep. Thou bring'st the old Witnesses again to the general Testimony of R. A. to the truth of the Narrative , or the Substance of it ; but I perceive thou darest not say , the whole Narrative ; and what the Substance is , thou hast not mentioned : But however , he hath not at any time testified before those Witnesses , That he was a Quaker , or that the Narrative was all true , neither have they testified any such thing from what thou sayst he declared to them , or from their own Knowledge ; and yet thou sayst , Thus it appears that R. A. was a Quaker : but if this be all thou canst make it appear by , there is no cause for any to believe that he was a Quaker ; and so thou hast left thy self as a man without Credit : for it s now well perceived , that thou hast none to stand by thee , that is able to testifie for thee from their own knowledge ; and so R. A's Sayings and Confessions are thy chief Pillar . And to make it good thou sayst , Nor can we have a better Testimony then a mans own Confession in this case ; for he must needs know his own Opinion better then another man : nor is it possible for us to prove ( sayst thou ) what Conversation ( in all respects ) he had with them , because remote from him , and not concerned in the Quakers Congregations . And then thou queriest , Whether a man 's own Confession for matter of Opinion , being attended with those Demonstrations of the matter of Fact , thereby observed , be not a cogent Proof to satisfie indifferent men ( thou sayst ) thou must leave the Sober Reader to judge for his own satisfaction . Rep. Well Ralph , I perceive thou art come to an end of proving R. A. a Quaker ; and if this , which thou hast brought , be all thy Evidence , as may well be supposed , then R. A. must either stand by thee , or else thou must unavoidably fall ; for thou hast laid the very stress of the matter upon his single Evidence , and so hast forgotten , or otherwise wilfully omitted the Testimony of Scriptures ; for the Scripture saith , that In the Mouth of Two or Three Witnesses every word shall be established ; and thou wanting this sure Evidence on thy part , there are not any of thy words can be established ; for thou hast neither Three , Two , nor One Witness to evidence the Truth of thy matter ; and so all thy words are as Wind , and cannot be established . But thou sayst , Nor can we have a better Testimony then a man 's own Confession in this case , he knowing his own Opinion better then another man : Hast thou not much mistaken thy self in thy Assertion ? for there may be a better Testimony in this case then a man 's own Confession , because a man may make an Ignorant Confession of his own Opinion in relation to the Principles of other People ; whereas another , that duly observes the course of his Life and Conversation , may be more able and fit to testifie how he answers their Principles ; and such a Testimony is far beyond the Party 's own confessing his Opinion : and so it will unavoidably follow , That whatsoever R. A. hath confessed or said , in relation to the Quakers , according to his own Opinion , doth not make him a Quaker . And where thou speakest of the Impossibility for you to prove what Conversation ( in all respects ) he had with us , because remote from him , and not concerned in our Congregations : we do believe it ; for how is it possible for you to prove a thing to be , that never was ? for he never had his Conversation with us at any time , in any respect , neither did he frequent our Meetings or Congregations at all ; and so it is not possible for you to prove it . And thou ask'st this Question , Whether a man 's own Confession for matter of Opinion , being attended with th●se Demonstrations of the Matter of Fact hereby observed , be not a cogent Proof to satisfie indifferent men ? and here thou ask'st a Question after thy Affirmation ; for thou first saidst , Nor can we have a better Testimony then a Man 's own Confession in this case : and now thou queriest , Whether a man 's own Confession be not a Cogent Proof ? and so it may well and safely be concluded , that thou affirmest a thing that lies doubtful in thy own Judgment ; and that ever R. A. confessed that he was a Quaker , is beyond thy skill to prove by Undeniable Evidence ; and therefore thy Folly is manifest , giving him a Name which no Man or Woman did ever know him by before : for there is nothing more certain , but R. A. would soon have been called a Quaker by several of his Neighbours , if he had received their Principles , and been acted by their Spirit , as thou wouldest have it ; and thou mightest have had the Evidence of several concerning his Alteration from the Wayes , Customs , and Fashions , and Traditions of the World , and of his bearing a Testimony for God in the Quakers Spirit ; but seeing it never was so , nor by him confessed to be so , thou art left as a Naked Man , without any Covering : And thus thy Subterfuge is overturned , and thou art without a Hiding-Place , and thy own Lye is turned upon thee in calling R. A. a Quaker , who never was known to have Fellowship with them , or they with him ; and so the Quakers not at all concern'd in R. A's Errors ( if he did err ) as thou wouldst fabulously impose upon them . I shall now take notice of some Passages in thy Narrative , which seem to reflect upon the Truth , and to justifie Error ; and thereby thou mayst see how darkly and ignorantly thou hast manifest thy Judgment , and how vainly thou hast endeavoured to make R. A. a Quaker . 1st , Thou sayst , That R. A. came to your Meeting , and was convinc'd ; and said , He did believe that Baptism in Water was an Ordinance of God. Rep. It seems he was convinced at your Meeting , and confessed his Belief to your way of Water-Baptism ; and did you own him as a Baptist because he confessed his Belief of that which you hold and maintain to be of such absolute Necessity ? Now here are two things more considerable to make him a Baptist , at that time , then any you have brought , in all that he has confessed , can make him a Quaker ; and yet it may be supposed , that you did not at that time own him as a Baptist , notwithstanding his Convincement , and confessing his Belief to your Water-Baptism as an Ordinance of God. 2dly , Thou sayst , That before he came again , he met with the People called Quakers , who told him ( as himself confessed ) That he must not look upon those outward Ordinances , for they were low ; but that he must mind the Light Within , and be guided by it ; and not by the Scriptures , for they were a Dead Letter . Rep. It is to be observed , that thou didst not know whether he met with any of the Quakers or no , but as he confessed , and yet he must be a Quaker in Print : Would ever any man , that had the right use of his Wits , have spread such Stories abroad , as thou hast done , and have no certain knowledge of what thou writest ? And your outward Ordinances , as you call them , are Temporal , and may be seen , and the Apostle would not have such things looked at ; and they that will not be guided by the Light , and follow it , they disobey the Doctrine of Christ , and abide in Darkness ; and they that abide in Darkness do not know the Scriptures , nor the Power of God : and this is testified upon Truth 's account , whatever R. A. might say unto thee . 3dly , Thou sayest , That when R. A. came again to the Meeting , he much contended against the Baptism of Water ; and said , That now they were to be Baptized with the Baptism of the Spirit , and not with Water . Rep. As for R. A's Contention ( if he did so ) it doth not concern the matter in hand : and you Baptists do not so well agree in all Points of your Belief , but you can sometimes contend one with another , and if thee and R. A. could not agree , it doth not follow , that he was a Quaker : and if you be not Baptized with the Baptism of the Spirit , how are you One Body ? for it was by one Spirit that the Saints were Baptized into One Body , whether Jews or Gentiles : And if you can you may demonstrate , which of you all have a Commission from God to be an Administrator of Water , in order to Baptize any . 4thly , Thou sayst , that R. A. said , The Spirit was to try the Scriptures , and not the Scriptures the Spirit . And then saith , that thou saidst , Thou believed'st , the Scriptures were to try the Spirit , and not the Spirit to try the Scriptures . Thus in thy first Narrative . Rep. If you discoursed on this manner , you were both at work in your Imaginations ; for the Spirit and Scriptures agree , and do not Try each other : and thou hast sufficiently manifested thy Ignorance both of the Spirit and of the Scriptures , who would have the Scriptures to try the Spirit ; Canst thou produce a Scripture to make good thy Belief ? but in thy last Narrative thou seem'st to state the matter otherwise , and so would'st alter the case to cover thy self , where thou hast over-shot thy self , and some other Alterations , which thou hast made in thy last , which I shall wave at present ; And why hast thou altered this matter , and put thy Meaning to it ? For thou sayst in thy last , That thou believest , the Scriptures were to Try the Spirits , and not the Spirits to Try the Scriptures ; meaning ( sayst thou ) as before is said , That the Holy Spirit , as he speaketh in the Scriptures , is to Try and Judge the Spirits of men , and particularly the Quakers Spirit , which they call the Light within : And here thou hast plainly manifested Deceit unto all who have Eyes to see , and thy Meaning will not cover thee ; And who have any cause to believe thee , that canst twist thy words from one thing to another ? But how do the Scriptures try and judge the spirits of men , according to thy Meaning ? I would understand thy mind more plainly , as to this thy Evasion : And why must the Quakers Spirit ( which thou sayst they call the Light Within ) be particularly tryed and judged by the Scriptures ? Must the Letter try and judge the Light ? Wouldst thou make the Greater subordinate to the Lesser ? for that which is the Original of a thing must needs be greater then that which is manifest from it , and the Letter was manifest from the Light ; for the holy Men of God spake as they were moved by it , and it was within them when it moved them to speak : and so the Holy Mens Spirit was the Light with which the Quakers have Unity , and their words do not try and judge the Quakers Spirit , but their words are fulfilled and witnessed by the same Spirit : and here the Quakers are before you all , who are only in the words , as they were once spoken , and not in the Spirit by which they were spoken ; and so you want the Key of Knowledge , which opens the Mysteries of the Kingdom : and when John bid the Saints try the Spirits , whether they were of God , he said , There were many False Prophets gone out into the World ; and the False Prophets were in a False spirit , which the Saints were to try in the True Spirit ; and so the True Spirit was the Tryer of all false spirits and false Prophets , and the same Spirit is the Tryer of all spirits now ; and they that live in it hold fast that which is good , and know it to be Good though false spirits may call it Evil. 5thly , Thou sayst , Thou saidst to R. A. that thou wast afraid that the Quakers were deceived , and guided by a spirit of Delusion ; and that it was thy Judgment , That all the Sons and Daughters of men ought to be guided by the Scriptures . Rep. It seems thou hadst no certain Ground to believe that the Quakers were Deceived and Deluded , but only wast afraid ; and so it is manifest thou couldst not try them , either by the Spirit or Scriptures : surely Wise Men will be ashamed of thy Ignorance and Folly : And for the removing thy vain Fear , we are willing to tell thee and thy Brethren , That we live in the Blessed Truth , where Righteousness & Peace embrace and kiss each other . And as for thy Judgment , That all the Sons and Daughters of men ought to be guided by the Scriptures ; thou hast given thy Judgment inconsiderately ; for thou hast not demonstrated any thing as a Ground why it ought to be so , but only stated it from thy own Judgment ; and if thy Judgment be sufficient to bring others to be of the same Judgment , then the Judgment of the Pope may plead Authority , and so people may as soon be Papists as Baptists ; and if there be no other Guide , but the Scriptures , for the Sons & Daughters of men to be guided by ; then what Guide have such as never heard nor read the Scriptures ? have such no Guide to lead them to fear God , and work Righteousness , to be accepted of him ? or must they of necessity perish for want of the Scriptures to be their Guide ? or whether can such a People be saved ? thou art here concern'd to give thy Judgment again ; for there is not yet such a Decision of the great Controversie , as thou vainly boasteth . 6thly , Thou now comest to speak of R. A' s coming to reprove thee , and pronounce thee a Leper ; and that a little time after he confessed , he was deceived , and was a false Prophet ; and that the same Judgment was come upon one of his Children , and himself , Wife and other Children taken with a Restless Pain in their Bodies : and that he desired thee to Pray for him , and thou and thy Congregation did pray for the removing of that Distemper and Affliction ; and they were restored to their former Health again , which ( thou sayst ) R. A. confessed when he came to the Meeting again . Ans. It is to be observed , That the very Ground of all the Buzzle and Noise , which thou hast made against the Quakers , is only from the bare and single Confession of R. A. and thy own Consequences and Conclusion from what he hath confessed and said , but thy groundless Conclusions do not prove so effectual for thy purpose ; as thou might'st vainly suppose when thou begun'st thy work : for though thou hast made such a Noise against the Light Within , and against the Quakers , because R. A. might tell thee , The Quakers did tell him , he was to mind the Light , to be guided by it ; yet the Light is not to be charged with R. A's Miscarrying , if he did Miscarry in any thing wherein he concern'd the Light : for if he did concern the Light in giving Judgment against thee , and then afterwards confest , that he was Deceived , and was a False Prophet ; this doth not make the Light to be a False Principle , nor those that are faithful to it , to be guided by it , a Deluded People : and if he did confess , that he was Deceived , it doth not follow , that the Light deceived him ; for there were never any false Prophets in the True Light , nor never any True Prophets out of it ; and so it is very clear , that R. A. was not guided by the True Light when he was deceived , and was a false Prophet ; neither doth it appear by all thou hast said , that he was guided by the Light , and yet he must be call'd a Quaker , because he might sometimes have something to say of the Light , and against Water-Baptism : and suppose this was granted , yet it doth not make him any more a Quaker , then for a man to speak of Water-Baptism and against the Pope would make him a Baptist ; and if such a man should do or say something that is a manifest Error , would you Baptists take it well , that his Error should be charged upon your whole Society , and you counted a Deluded People because of such a Miscarriage by that man , when he was never taken notice of to be owned by you ? it may well be concluded , That you would be ready to clear your selves , both from the man , and his Miscarriage ; and to blame such as should lay his Miscarriage upon you : And if you would not be willing to bear such a thing your selves , if cast upon you from such a Ground , why then do you so much busie your selves to do it unto us ? Are you doing in this as you would be done by ? let the Juditious judge : For you neither manifest Justice , Equity or Mercy towards us in this matter ; but rather vent your Envy and Malice against us , as the Sober-minded well perceive . And as for the Judgment of R. A. against thee R. J. if such a thing was , and the thing coming upon himself and Family , it doth not concern the Quakers at all , or the Light of Christ within , which is their Principle ; and hadst thou been so wise , as to have let the Quakers alone , and not concern'd them , its possible the Story of thy Prayers for removing such a Judgment might have made thee and you famous in the Eyes of some who delight in Novelties : but thou hast taken a wrong course to advance thy own glory ; and in time , both thee , and those that have assisted thee in thy work , will fall under your own Shame : for the True Light is not to be charged with that which by a False spirit may be done , no more then an Innocent Man is to be charg'd with the Offence of an Offender ; for , all that live in the true Light receive true Commands , and no Error is to be charg'd upon the Commander , nor such accounted Deluded that keep his Commands ; for the true Light leadeth all those that faithfully follow it out of all Error , into all Truth ; but where Imaginations have liberty to work , they conceive a false thing , and bring forth a false birth , and in that work the Light may be pretended though not at all concerned : and by this thou mayst see where R. A. was when he was deceived , and was a false Prophet , as thou sayst he confessed . And so it is not what any may speak of the Light Within that makes the Light guilty of any thing that may be done amiss by such as speak of it ; for it stands a Witness against them in their Consciences , when transgress it . And as for R. A. and his Family being restor'd to their former health , by the Prayers of thee and thy Congregation , it is still to prove , though thou hast gotten several Subscribers to what R. A. confess'd concerning it ; and in such a manner thou mayst write one Book after another with reiteration ; for thou brought'st Evidence to what R. A. confessed in thy first , and thou art gotten no further yet , only hast gotten new Witnesses to R. A's old Confession ; and so all thou hast done by thy last Subscribers is but a further manifestation of thy Folly , and it is not worth taking notice of in particulars , neither shall I trouble my self or the Reader with such Impertinencies : and thou dost as much as confess , that as to thy own knowledge , thou wast ignorant of any Affliction upon R A. and his Family , or of their Recovery ; for thou sayst , Hadst thou fore-seen this Peevishness in the Incredulous Quakers , thou mightest perhaps have deprived them of this their foolish Advantage ; and then thou bringest Christ and the Apostle Paul , whom ( thou sayst ) did not go to visit all for whose ▪ Health ▪ they prayed : and so thou wouldst parralel thy self with those Unparralel'd Workers ; & thou wouldst bring thy self off again by saying , But what am I , O Lord ! I confess unto thee , I am not worthy to be mention'd here ; and so thou first seem'st to include thy self with Christ and the Apostle , and then wouldst exclude thy self again , as not worthy to be mention'd : And for thy Fore-seeing the Peevishness of the Quakers ( as thou term'st it ) thou hast sham'd thy self with that Expression ; for it seems thou hadst nothing in it to have satisfy'd thy self of the truth of the matter , but only to have depriv'd the Quakers of that which thou callest their Foolish Advantage ; and so thou couldst not pray either in Faith or Hope , who didst not know whether there was any Affliction upon those thou prayd'st for or no ; and so thou and thy Congregation pray'd at an adventure , and R. A. confessed to the Restoration of Health again ; and this is the Great Wonder which thou hast spread abroad in the Nation , to make people believe , that you prevail'd with God by your Prayers : but the most Juditious do rather believe that it was a meer Fiction , and thou art not able from thy own knowledg to demonstrate it otherwise . And thus I have done with thy Narrative . I shall now take notice of some particular Passages , which thou hast stated to make good R. A's Affliction and Restoration . Thou speakest of some that asked him ( meaning R. A. ) Whether he himself had not a Child presently after that was Leprous ? and he said , he had a Child then that did break out into Sores , p. 13. Rep. Mark this Confessor ; he did not directly answer the Question of the Enquirers , as to confess his Child had a Leprosie ; but that he had a Child broke out into Sores : and it is well known to all that have their Senses , that there may be a breaking out into Sores , and yet no Leprosie : and this is all that R. A. confessed upon inquiry . How hath the poor man been drawn out and squeezed by Inquirers , to answer the End which thou Unjustly hast begun ? Thou sayst in the same page , That the Title Page of the Narrative was not of thy composing . Rep. It seems you Baptists can shuffle to make out your own matter ; and thou canst subscribe to that which is not of thy own composing : and to help the matter as well as thou canst , thou sayst , It is not without Truth ; but whether this appears like the Truth , I shall leave to all Unbyast Judgments to determine . Thou endeavourest pa. 10. to make R. A. a Quaker without any Contradiction , saying , That R. A. was a Quaker in Principles , and owned that People above all others , and was acted by their spirit , is palpable enough from what is said in the Narrative . Ans. Thou now seemst to leave thy Subscribers to R. A's Confession , and take the Matter upon thy self , as if thy own word should carry the matter more clearly then all that R. A. hath confessed , and by several subscrib'd : and must we take thy bare word that R. A. was a Quaker in Principles , and own'd us above all others , and was acted by our Spirit ? wouldst tho● impose these things upon us from thy vain Conclusions ? but as thou hast refer'd this Matter to the Narrative , as such a palpable thing , I shall not run into Tautology ; but desire the Reader to peruse what is answer'd to the Narrative , which , I doubt not , will fully satisfie any Juditious Person touching this matter . I shall take a little notice of three Heads , which thou statest to make good this false Assertion . First , Thou sayst , In that he contributes his Testimony to that which they call the Light Within , at as high a rate as the most of that Way ; which ( sayst thou ) if they have any Principles at all , is the chief of their Principles . Answ. What Testimony ( as thou callst it ) R. A. did contribute to the Light Within , or at what rate , we have only thy bare word , and our Belief not being in thee , we can't credit thy Stories , and therefore thy words are but as Wind unto us . But thou sayst , if we have any Principles at all , the Light is the chief : and here thou questionest , whether we have any Principles at all ; and yet , even now affirmed , that R. A. was a Quaker in Principles : who would take thy word , that know'st not what thou sayst , or whereof thou affirmest ? and if the Light be the chief ( as thou put'st the case ) we have no cause to be asham'd of it : but thou shalt not at this time be made wiser by me , in demonstrating what our Principles are , or what is the chief ; but thou mayst grope in the Dark , where thou art , seeing thou dost not love the Light. Secondly , Thou sayst , In that he took upon him to appear as a Prophet for the Quakers ; condemning such as opposed them , and Proclaiming them to be the People of God. Answ. Thou once saidst , The Light commanded him ; and now sayst , He took upon him : mark thy Contradiction , and condemn thy Folly ; for he did not appear as a Prophet for the Quakers , though he might rebuke thee for speaking against them ; for that he might do in Civility , as a man , seeing thy Incivility in speaking against them behind their Backs , and yet no more a Quaker for rebuking thy Folly , then thou in thy Folly : And where did he proclaim them to be the People of God ? dost thou count that to be his Proclamation , when he said , He was come to reprove thee for speaking against the People of God called Quakers ; this is all the Proclamation that can be found in all thou hast expressed , & whether this was true or no , we have no Evidence besides thy own ; and we have no cause to believe thee , who art the very Author of such unheard of and incredulous Stories . Thou makest a Rabble about the Evidence , that the Quakers bring to invalidate the Narrative , as if they were either abused , or most unworthily forged : but this is such a piece of Foppery as not worth taking any notice of , except one did intend to follow thee in thy Humors ; and being so inconsiderable , as not to carry any thing of weight to make any thing good on thy part , or to make any thing good against the Quakers , either for abusing , or unworthily forging any thing , I shall wholy wave it ; only take notice of one Passage , p. 16. concerning something that thou sayst Katherine Hall should say of the Quakers calling for much Ale , and brought it into the Street , bid the People Drink what they would , and if they mould have more they should have it ; and then thou draw'st thy own Conclusion , saying , Probably to move the People to befriend them , with the more liberal Testimony . Answ. Canst thou tell us the Longitude or Latitude of this Story ? for I do not know who can find out either : and was it unbecoming Christianity or Civility , to bid the People drink , who came thither upon their account ? But this matter needs no answering ; for all that know the Quakers , do very well know their Moderation , Temporance and Sobriety , and that they 〈◊〉 not inclin'd to the Excess of Strong Drink , or any way to Encourage others in such a Practice : but one may plainly see , that thou wouldst creep under any thing for thy Subterfuge , and thy Wickedness in this matter appeareth in a very high degree . Thirdly , Thou sayst , By his acting after the manner of divers Quakers in these dayes , going on Unsent Errands , only moved by the Conceits of their own hearts . Answ. His acting was not after the manner of any Quakers according to thy Conclusion ; for the Quakers know who sends them on their Errands , & know their Errand , though thou knowest neither ; and he that sends them is True , and Truth is their Errand ; and being moved by him , who is the Fountain of Life , and Well-spring of Mercies , to Labour and Travel in his Work , they are upheld by his Power to do his Will ; and this is more then the Conceits of their own Hearts : though the Goo Heart may conceive Good Things , and indict Good Matters ; but thy Motions lie in the Conceits of thy own Brain , which is a Habitation of Notions . And seeing thou affirm'st , the Quakers go on Unsent Errands , I ask thee , or any Baptist , Who sendeth you on your Errand , seeing you pretend to have an Errand ? Have you heard the Voice of God and Christ to tell you your Errand , and to send you forth with it ? give us a plain Answer . And thus I have Answer'd the most considerable Passages in the Pamphlet to maintain R. A. a Quaker ; and I may well hope , that the Juditious & Sober-minded , who only desire to know the truth , will be fully satisfied that R. A. was never a Quaker in Principle , Judgment or Practice ; and so the Baptists are plainly Discover'd in their Sophistry . And as to the rest of thy Book , concerning Christ the Light in every man , and about Ordinances , &c. thou and the Reader art refer'd to 〈…〉 which is coming forth , in Answer to Tho. Hicks , called 〈…〉 ich doth treat fully concerning these things ; in which 〈…〉 hy Brethren's Objections and Cavils are fully Answered . W. S. THE END .